# Compound forms of the impersonal "haber".



## Bilbo Baggins

Hi:
I'm familiar with the simple forms of the impersonal "haber": "hay= there is/are", "había= there was/were", and "habrá= there will be".
What about compound forms of the impersonal "haber"? For example: "there have/has been", "there had been", and "there will have been". Do these exist in Spanish? If so, how about: "hay sido", "había sido", "habrá sido"? Are these correct? Replies in English, please. Thanks.


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## YaniraTfe

Hi!
There has / have been = Ha habido
There had been = Había habido
There will have been: Habrá habido
There would have been = Habría habido

Hope it helps


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## Outsider

> For example: "there have/has been", "there had been", and "there will have been". Do these exist in Spanish? If so, how about: "hay sido", "había sido", "habrá sido"?


Those are forms of the verb _ser_, not of _haber_. Remember that the Spanish syntax is different from the English one.

Theoretically, the impersonal conjugation of haber includes all compounds. However, my impression is that many of them are rarely if ever used. The most common are perhaps the indicative present perfect (_ha habido_), the subjunctive preterite (_haya habido_), and the subjunctive pluperfect (_hubiese/hubiera habido_).


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## YaniraTfe

Your options:

Hay sido 
Había sido = He / She / It had been
Habrá sido = He / She / It will have been


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## Bilbo Baggins

Thanks! I noticed "haber" conjugated that way on this forum´s conjugator. I didn´t quite know what to make of it until now. Let me ask you this: these are all third person singular conjugations -as are all impersonal forms of "haber". What about the other conjugations? For instance: "He habido", or "habías habido", or "habremos habido". Do these other conjugations have any real meaning? I know that when there is a subject we use "estado" "been" for perfect progressives and "sido" "been" for perfect passives.


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## Prometo

not common


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## Bilbo Baggins

Do they have any meaning though? How would one translate these other conjugations?


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## YaniraTfe

Hola de nuevo!

"He habido", or "habías habido", or "habremos habido" do not exist. 

I have caught the thief. would be "He cogido / atrapado al ladrón."

We'll have gotten our hands on the prize. = Habremos ganado / conseguido / obtenido el premio.

Saludos


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## Perico Nuevo

Sorry, I need another shot at that. Obviously these are rare cases, but I'm just going through transitive and reflexive uses of haber from the Real Academia definition of haber.



Perico Nuevo said:


> If you can think of a case of 'he habido' then of course.
> Quizás:
> He habido el ladrón.   I have caught the thief.
> Hemos leído cuantos libros hemos podido haber.  We have read as many books as we've been able to get our hands on.
> Te habías habido bien.   You had behaved well.
> 
> In almost all cases, if something works in one conjugations its gonna work in all the others.



Yanira, do you dispute these uses? Perhaps they're archaic? Claro que no quiero contradecirte, pero es posible crear unos ejemplos de _haber habido_ usando otras definiciones del verbo (como _tr. capturar, tr. alcanzar, _etc.)


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## Perico Nuevo

Otros ejemplos al buscarlo en Google:
_



			he habido placer de su quedada aqui
		
Click to expand...





cierto que me he habido con ellos muy blandamente

Click to expand...





Habremos habido tanto azul sin principio como errantes eternos en la irrealidad del otro...

Click to expand...





			te has habido sin decoro

Click to expand...

_


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## YaniraTfe

He habido el ladrón 
Hemos leído cuantos libros hemos podido haber. 
Te habías habido bien. 
he habido placer de su quedada aquí  (No idea what it means)
cierto que me he habido con ellos muy blandamente 
Habremos habido tanto azul sin principio como errantes eternos en la irrealidad del otro... ¿????
te has habido sin decoro 

Dear Perico:

Are we talking about modern Spanish? If so, no, I don’t dispute them. They simply do not exist.

Saludos


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## Perico Nuevo

Como he dicho, los encuentro en RAE (y el otro diccionario mío) pero tal vez de forma obsoleta. No voy a andar negando que esas formas no existen, sin embargo, cada uno con su gusto


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## lazarus1907

Outsider said:


> The most common are perhaps the indicative present perfect (_ha habido_), the subjunctive preterite (_haya habido_), and the subjunctive pluperfect (_hubiese/hubiera habido_).


The future too:

No te preocupes: habrá sido el viento.



Bilbo Baggins said:


> Let me ask you this: these are all third person singular conjugations -as are all impersonal forms of "haber". What about the other conjugations? For instance: "He habido", or "habías habido", or "habremos habido". Do these other conjugations have any real meaning?


These impersonal forms in Spanish are ALWAYS in 3rd person; it's pretty much like asking whether you can say "we rain" or "they rain" apart from "it rains".


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## Jeromed

YaniraTfe said:


> Are we talking about modern Spanish? If so, no, I don’t dispute them. They simply do not exist.


 
Careful. They do exist, but as archaic constructions.

From the DPD:

_Su empleo hoy con el valor de tener es un arcaísmo lingüístico que solo se da en textos escritos, especialmente literarios, con intención arcaizante, o en expresiones jurídicas, normalmente en construcción pasiva: «Juró exterminar a todos los fascistas que pudiese haber a la mano» (León Cristo [Esp. 1941]); «Los emigrantes españoles [...] pierden también a sus hijos, a veces, si son habidos de europea» (País [Esp.] 6.10.77)._


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## Aerostudent

Jeromed said:


> Careful. They do exist, but as archaic constructions.
> 
> From the DPD:
> 
> _Su empleo hoy con el valor de tener es un arcaísmo lingüístico que solo se da en textos escritos, especialmente literarios, con intención arcaizante, o en expresiones jurídicas, normalmente en construcción pasiva: «Juró exterminar a todos los fascistas que pudiese haber a la mano» (León Cristo [Esp. 1941]); «Los emigrantes españoles [...] pierden también a sus hijos, a veces, si son habidos de europea» (País [Esp.] 6.10.77)._


Como bien dice Jeromed en uso de estas palabras tiene un contexto mas literario. 
As Jeromed says the use of these forms of verb Haber is not common but circunscribed on literary style.
Most of spanish people never use these constructions.


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## jmx

Bilbo Baggins said:


> ... these are all third person singular conjugations -as are all impersonal forms of "haber". What about the other conjugations? For instance: "He habido", or "habías habido", or "habremos habido". Do these other conjugations have any real meaning?


Of course they have, though they're not very common. Examples :

_He habido de venir._ (It's more common "he tenido que venir")
_¡ Habías habido de decirlo !_ (It's more common "habías tenido que decirlo")


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## YaniraTfe

Jeromed said:


> Careful. They do exist, but as archaic constructions.
> 
> From the DPD:
> 
> _Su empleo hoy con el valor de tener es un arcaísmo lingüístico que solo se da en textos escritos, especialmente literarios, con intención arcaizante, o en expresiones jurídicas, normalmente en construcción pasiva: «Juró exterminar a todos los fascistas que pudiese haber a la mano» (León Cristo [Esp. 1941]); «Los emigrantes españoles [...] pierden también a sus hijos, a veces, si son habidos de europea» (País [Esp.] 6.10.77)._


 
Hi Jeromed... 
Modern Spanish is *not *archaic Spanish.
I've just said that they *do not exist in Modern Spanish*, which is exactly what your text says.
Saludos


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## Jeromed

YaniraTfe said:


> Hi Jeromed...
> Modern Spanish is *not *archaic Spanish.
> I've just said that they *do not exist in Modern Spanish*, which is exactly what your text says.
> Saludos


 
Modern Spanish is the Spanish that is used in the 21st century, in written or spoken form. For stylistic or other reasons, it can *have archaic elements or constructions, *which doesn't make it "archaic Spanish."  That's what my post said, or intended to say.


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## Ynez

We are lucky English grammar books don't talk so much about things that are not currently used...all this must be really confusing for learners 

And yes Bilbo, all forms exist, but used impersonally, like THERE IS:

Debe haber una tormenta (porque oigo truenos)

Debe haber habido una tormenta (porque está la carretera mojada y veo un árbol caído)

Puede haber/Podría haber/Pudo haber...etc
Puede haber habido/Podría haber habido/Pudo haber habido...etc

Ask if you want some particular example


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## eldimmo

*Sorry* if I've missed something here, but please confirm translation of these:

*There* should have been..
*There* could have been...
*There* might have been...
*There* ought to have been...etc etc


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## oeset

Hi eldimmo. Podrían traducirse como:
Debería haber habido...
Tendría que haber habido...
Podría haber habido...
Pudiera haber habido...
etc
Dependiendo del contexto, claro.


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## Mango2007

Hola ustedes.....tengo una preguntita del tema _haber_

A veces veo las letras de las canciones y dicen algo como asi:

El haber traicionado

Un gusto el haberte conocido

Alguien podria traducirlos para mi?.... yo entiendo las conjugaciones de haber... pero no es claro la forma infinitiva de haber.....


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## Outsider

El haber traicionado --> to have betrayed, having betrayed

Un gusto el haberte conocido --> a delight to have met you, a delight having met you


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## evonde

Propongo estas traducciones. Los verbos modales en inglés no tienen todos equivalencia total en español, especialmente porque en algunos casos en español rige el subjuntivo en donde en inglés se usa un modal.

There should have been = Debiera haber habido
There could have been = Podría haber habido
There might have been = Es posible que haya habido
There ought to have been = Debiera haber habido

Tal vez espera a que otros miembros comenten mis traducciones. Just in case...

evonde


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## Prometo

Bilbo Baggins said:


> For example: "there have/has been", "there had been", and "there will have been". Do these exist in Spanish? If so, how about: "hay sido", "había sido", "habrá sido"? Are these correct? Replies in English, please. Thanks.



Of course these exist in Spanish.

*Ha habido, había habido, habrá habido* is the correct way to say them.

_Había sido_ = [ser] had been

_Habrá sido_ = [ser] might have been, would have been, may have been, could have been

_"Su empleo hoy con el valor de tener" 
_
In the case illustrated by this example (Post 14)...

*Haber = To have* (archaic modern usage)


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## Sandro Amancio

Bilbo Baggins said:


> Hi:
> I'm familiar with the simple forms of the impersonal "haber": "hay= there is/are", "había= there was/were", and "habrá= there will be".
> What about compound forms of the impersonal "haber"? For example: "there have/has been", "there had been", and "there will have been". Do these exist in Spanish? If so, how about: "hay sido", "había sido", "habrá sido"? Are these correct? Replies in English, please. Thanks.


 
I don't speak English well but I'm going to try to explain. The verb *haber* has diverses meanings. When you say *hay *you design existence: *hay* dos perros en la calle (_there are two dogs on the street_), aquí *hay* una niña (here there is a girl), etc. *Hay* (verb *haber*) is plural and singular.

The verb haber is used also as *auxiliary verb*. As *to have* in English.

*PRESENT TENSE*
yo he, _I have_
usted ha, _you have_
él ha, _he has_
ella ha, _she has_
nosotros hemos, _we have_
ustedes han, _you have_
ellos _or_ ellas han, _they have_

Examples as auxiliary verb:

*Ha* *estado* (_past of verb_ *estar*, _to be_) usted en California? _*Have* you *been* in California?_

You ask: _"Do these exist in Spanish? If so, how about:_ *"hay sido"*, *"había sido"*_, *"habrá sido"?* Are these correct?"_

I answer you: *hay sido* isn't correct. The correct form is: *ha* sido. 
About *"había sido"*_, _it's correct _(she/he was)_. 
About _*"habrá sido"* _is equivalent to ...*will have seen.*


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## Bilbo Baggins

Escuchad, sé todo de eso, ya. Comencé esto hilo hace muchas semanas. Alguien lo aumenta hoy para algun porqué, de ese modo moviendolo a la primera página. Gracias por vuestra ayuda.


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## Outsider

That's alright, someone else reading might benefit from the replies.


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