# All Slavic: fire



## Encolpius

There are 2 different words in Czech translated both in English into fire. I wonder if all Slavic langauges distinguish those two things. Thanks. 

*Czech*: 

1) _*oheň *_(that means the element)
2) _*požár *_(that means fire that is out of control; English blaze)


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## TriglavNationalPark

Slovenian:

1.) *ogenj*
2.) *požar*


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## slavic_one

Croatian: vatra, požar.


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## phosphore

Serbian:

- vatra or oganj (archaic)
- plamen or plam (poetic)
- požar


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## iobyo

*Macedonian*:

1.) _оган _(less commonly, _огин_) — the reaction/element.
2.) _пожар _— an occurrence of fire.

_Пламен _would be 'flame'.


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## Maroseika

Russian - огонь and пожар.

  Two different words seem to be common almost for all Slavic languages, but according to P. Chernyhk, the latter lacks in Sorbian, where one word ("element") is used in both meanings:
Upper Sorbian - wohen
Lower Sorbian - wogen


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## sokol

Maroseika said:


> Two different words seem to be common almost for all Slavic languages, but according to P. Chernyhk, the latter lacks in Sorbian, where one word ("element") is used in both meanings:
> Upper Sorbian - wohen
> Lower Sorbian - wogen


This seems to be the case, you can search the German-Sorbian dictionary (enter "Brand" and "Feuer").
Even though German also has two words this could still be German influence on Sorbian as in German "Feuer" is used for both (Slovene) "ogenj/požar" and cognates while "Brand" only means "požar" (and also has other meanings), so there is a semantic overlap in German which probably caused the shift of meaning in Sorbian.


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## Azori

In Slovak:

1) *oheň*
2) *požiar*

*Vatra* = a large outdoor fire, a bonfire; *plameň* = flame.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Two additions for Slovenian:

*plamen* = flame
*kres* = bonfire


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## Selyd

Ukrainian:
вогонь - commonly end багаття
пожежа – blaze
багаття (ватра) – a large outdoor fire
полум’я – flame
присок – sparks and from above ashes
жар – heat end elements
жарина – spark


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## winpoj

Just for interest: There are at least *3 *different words in Czech translated all in English as fire:

PAL! (order to start shooting).


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## Encolpius

winpoj said:


> Just for interest: There are at least *3 *different words in Czech translated all in English as fire:
> 
> PAL! (order to start shooting).



There are about 13.


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## Orlin

Bulgarian:
1. огън - the reaction/element;
2. пожар - occurrence of fire.
пламък=flame.


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## Selyd

Ukrainian: I add
багаття,вогнище (ватра) – a large outdoor fire
огнище – colloquial


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## DenisBiH

Selyd said:


> Ukrainian:I add
> багаття,вогнище (*ватра*) – a large outdoor fire
> огнище – colloquial



Interesting that *ватра *exists in Ukrainian and Slovak.

I always thought vatra was only present in South Slavic, borrowed from some Balkan non-Slavic language (it is tentatively connected with Albanian votēr  here). 

I just checked Petar Skok's etymological dictionary, and aside from Slovak and Ukrainian he also mentions Czech (eastern Moravian) and Polish, and due to the fact it exists in Romanian thinks it was brought to the north by Romanian shepherds. He characterizes it as a "Balkan shepherd word", I assume he means paleo-Balkan. But strange that it's absent from Bulgarian and Macedonian.


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## Maroseika

Cignat of ватра exists also in Russian (very old loan from Ukrainian):
ватрушка - curd tart.

According to some etymologists this word is connected with Ancient-Indian _ātar _- fire.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Interestingly enough (or perhaps not, since it was never influenced by Romanian shepherds), Slovenian doesn't have any cognates of *vatra*.


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## dark_helmut

Encolpius said:


> There are 2 different words in Czech translated both in English into fire. I wonder if all Slavic langauges distinguish those two things. Thanks.
> 
> *Czech*:
> 
> 1) _*oheň *_(that means the element)
> 2) _*požár *_(that means fire that is out of control; English blaze)





lior neith said:


> In Slovak:
> 
> 1) *oheň*
> 2) *požiar*
> 
> *Vatra* = a large outdoor fire, a bonfire; *plameň* = flame.



Serbian:

1) _*vatra,*_ a bonfire, controlled fire and a common word for fire in general.

2) _*oganj,*_ archaic and poetic, very rarely used in everyday speech, common in poetry and literature; derived words are more common: _ognjište_ – a household ('a place where the fire is lit'), _ognjilo_ – a (metal) tinder, _ognjen_ fiery, _Ognjen_ personal name. 

3) _*požar*_ is actually an uncontrolled fire, a fire that is uncontrollably spreading on large scales in forests, cities, villages. Also a smaller outburst of fire in the household. A spreading harmful disaster caused by fire.

4) _*plamen,*_ flame. Also (poetic) _plam_.

5) _*lomača*_ is a highly specific word for bonfire. From lomiti, to break, describing its preparation. Initially, lomača was the term for the prepared bonfire-woods that are not lit yet.

6) _*paliti,*_ to set on fire.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Based on the responses here, I noticed that Slavic languages other than Slovenian don't seem to use *kres* in the sense of "bonfire," so I checked Snoj's etymological dictionary. Apparently, Old Russian and Serbian use *kres* in the sense of "summer solstice" (as does Slovenian).

Since bonfires are traditionally lit during the summer solstice, this poses and interesting question, according to Snoj: Was the fire named after the solstice (related to *vъzkresiti* = to resurrect) or was the solstice named after the fire (from *kresati* = to light a fire by striking an object in order to create sparks)?

By the way, *kresnica* is the Slovenian word for the firefly / lightning bug.


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## marco_2

In Polish:

*ogień *- fire
*pożar *- an occurance of fire
*ognisko - *a bonfire (our Highlanders also say *watra*)
*płomień* - flame, *płomyk* when it is small.


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## marco_2

A, in Polish we also say *ognia! *(order to start shooting) and *Czy mogę prosić o ogień? *(Can you give me a light, please?)


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## Maroseika

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Based on the responses here, I noticed that Slavic languages other than Slovenian don't seem to use *kres* in the sense of "bonfire," so I checked Snoj's etymological dictionary. Apparently, Old Russian and Serbian use *kres* in the sense of "summer solstice" (as does Slovenian).
> 
> Since bonfires are traditionally lit during the summer solstice, this poses and interesting question, according to Snoj: Was the fire named after the solstice (related to *vъzkresiti* = to resurrect) or was the solstice named after the fire (from *kresati* = to light a fire by striking an object in order to create sparks)?


Slavic kres < *krěps < *krěsiti - "to change", i.e. primary sense was connected with the solstice. Connection with the fire is secondary (P. Chernykh)


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## phosphore

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Based on the responses here, I noticed that Slavic languages other than Slovenian don't seem to use *kres* in the sense of "bonfire," so I checked Snoj's etymological dictionary. Apparently, Old Russian and Serbian use *kres* in the sense of "summer solstice" (as does Slovenian).


 
Actually, "kres" in Serbian is a slang term for "sex" (my dictionary does say it means "bonfire", but I have never heard the word in that meaning, I haven't even known what that was).


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## TriglavNationalPark

phosphore said:


> Actually, "kres" in Serbian is a slang term for "sex" (my dictionary does say it means "bonfire", but I have never heard the word in that meaning, I haven't even known what that was).


 
Interesting. How do you usually say "bonfire" in Serbian? And what word do you use for "summer solstice"?


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## Majalj

Bonfire - (logorska) vatra. 

Summer solstice - dugodnevnica. 

Ps. Phosphore, nisi čuo za Kapelske kresove?


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## phosphore

Wikipedia says that "bonfire" is "a controlled outdoor fire used for informal disposal of burnable waste material or as part of a celebration" and I don't know of any specific word for that in Serbian.

As to "Kapelski kresovi", I see it's a film but I've never heard of it before. It's from 1974 and I'm much younger than that.


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## TriglavNationalPark

phosphore said:


> Wikipedia says that "bonfire" is "a controlled outdoor fire used for informal disposal of burnable waste material or as part of a celebration" and I don't know of any specific word for that in Serbian.


 
So you don't light ceremonial bonfires for the summer solstice (or May Day) in Serbia?


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## phosphore

TriglavNationalPark said:


> So you don't light bonfires for the summer solstice in Serbia?


 
I don't know, why would we do that?  I've never heard of such custom.

On May Day, on the other hand, many go to a so-called "prvomajski uranak" and I suppose they do make "logorska vatra" there, but I don't really know, I've never been to one.


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## TriglavNationalPark

phosphore said:


> I don't know, why would we do that?  I've never heard of such custom.


 
It's a tradition with pagan origins and a long history here in Slovenia. I assumed that it's also known in other Slavic countries under different names (we call it *kresna noč*), but I see that's not the case.

By the way, these days *kresovanje* is perhaps even more common on the night before May Day.


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## phosphore

Don't listen to me, I'm not much of a traditional person. And in any case, this May Day Celebration is very likely to be related to the very same pagan tradition you have in Slovenia, the problem is that it is now associated with communism so many people don't like it because of that.


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## DenisBiH

According to Skok, this old Slavic tradition has been Christianized in BCS in the form of "paljenje uskrsne lomače" (Uskrs itself is a cognate) and kras "vatra što se loži u oči Ivanjdana". I wonder if "baklje ivanjske" from the song by Doris Dragović is the same thing.


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## phosphore

I haven't know of those two either. I mean, who "pali uskrsnu lomaču" and what is "uskrsna lomača" anyway?


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## TriglavNationalPark

DenisBiH said:


> "vatra što se loži u oči Ivanjdana"


 
Right:



> Kot rečeno, traja praznovanje še iz poganskih časov, krščanstvo pa ga je prikrojilo svojim potrebam, kar velja tudi za zimski solsticij, oziroma božič. Na kresno noč polovico leta pred rojstvom Jezusa, naj bi se namreč rodil Janez Krstnik.
> V slovenski tradiciji pa je poznan Kresnik kot sin ognjenega boga, ki je podedoval svetlobo, toploto in ogenj, po nekaterih pripovedih pa je tudi mitski knez Slovencev. Prav tako velja tudi za boga gromovnika, s čemer naj bi ustrezal slovanskemu bogu groma Perunu. Prav tako pri nas poznamo tudi kresnice, ki se udeležijo kresovanja pred 24. junijem, in bi bile lahko prvotne Kresnikove svečenice.


Source: rtvslo.si

Janez = Ivan


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## DenisBiH

There seems to be another word for it at least among Croats of Bosnia-Herzegovina, svitnjak. Here is a nice description:



> Uoči Ivandana (24. lipnja) pale se _svitnjaci. Svitnjaci_ su vatre po brdima i uzvišicama, na raskršćima ili nekim za to uobičajenim mjestima. Svaka katolička kuća sudjeluje u ovom običaju paljenja _svitnjaka._


There seems to be a video of it on YouTube, "KLOBUK SVITNJAK NA IVANJDAN".


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## dark_helmut

Maroseika said:


> Slavic kres < *krěps < *krěsiti - "to change", i.e. primary sense was connected with the solstice. Connection with the fire is secondary (P. Chernykh)



According to Skok's 'DICTIONNAIRE ETYMOLOGIQUE DE LA LANGUE CROATE OU SERBE', root kres is related to cut, edge, strike and sparkle.



phosphore said:


> Actually, "kres" in Serbian is a slang term for "sex" (my dictionary does say it means "bonfire", but I have never heard the word in that meaning, I haven't even known what that was).



This is but a contemporary slang. Not so long ago (only a few decades), kres was a slang term for a punch. 'Kresnuti (nekoga)' = 'udariti (nekoga)' - to strike (someone), to punch him/her in the face.

There are comical situations related to that. For instance, many descendants of Serbian emigrants living abroad still preserve this meaning and when they use it in Serbia, they get quite different meaning. A Serb from Austria once said that he _'kressed' _a guy (kresnuo), wanting to say that he started a fight, but in contemporary slang that meant that he had sex with him.


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## dark_helmut

TriglavNationalPark said:


> How do you usually say "bonfire" in Serbian? And what word do you use for "summer solstice"?



_Lomača, logorska vatra_ (camp fire) or just _vatra._

As I said previosly, lomača is actually the term for prepared wood that the bonfire is burned on, but it is also used for fire made that way. But lomača usually has a context of ceremonial burning, e.g. pagan ceremonial burning of the dead, or medieval burning of the 'witches'. Bonfire is called just logorska vatra or vatra.

The custom of burning fire on summer solstice is not widespread but it does exist. It is often related to _Petrovdan_ (St. Peter's Day, June 29th*) and in some parts to _Ivanjdan_ (St John's Day, June 24th*) or _Vidovdan_ (St Vitus' Day, June 15th*) and that fire is called _lila_. 

*The dates are Gregorian July 12th, July 7th and June 28th, respectively (Serbian Orthodox Church still uses old Julian calendar).

Fire is more related to Christmas Eve, i.e. the evening prior to Christmas when large bonfires called _badnjak_ are burnt throughout the country, celebrating the Christmas to come. Actually, an old pagan tradition of winter solstice.


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## Maroseika

dark_helmut said:


> According to Skok's 'DICTIONNAIRE ETYMOLOGIQUE DE LA LANGUE CROATE OU SERBE', root kres is related to cut, edge, strike and sparkle.


This may refer to крес, but not to крěс. They may, of course, derivate from one Pra-Slavic source, but in Slavic languages, as far as I can see from the dictionaries, they are quite different:
крес: искра, кресить, кресало < 'to strike"
крěс: воскресенье < 'to change' and maybe 'to bend' (in this case also кросно, кресло, krzesɫo).


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