# pronunciation: Manchester



## michkucz

Is there any correct, proper pronunciation of the word "Manchester"? In Poland many people for example tv presenters, sports journalists use it differently. Also teachers of English use 2 versions of the word. Should it be pronunced by a long vowel a or the vowel "ae" ?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Note that in English, a "long a" is the _a_ in _name_, or _safe_, or _plate_.  I have never heard anyone use this vowel when pronouncing "Manchester".

The usual pronunciation for American cities of that name (such as Manchester, New Hampshire) is the short _a_ of _man_, or _hand_, or _cat_.


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## ewie

Yes, I'm not sure what you mean by _long *a*_, Mich ~ can you explain? ~ one of these perhaps /ɑ:/ (the vowel in British English harm/card/spark)?
When you say _*ae*_, do you mean one of these /æ/ (the vowel in man/hand/cat)? It's always pronounced with an /æ/ in the UK too


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## Bobbum

Same as Manhatten.


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## michkucz

Sorry, that I didn't give the phonetic transcription. You wrote two versions which I wanted to describe. In Poland, in media both are commonly used, but I know that maybe it happens from the lack of knowledge? By the way, how can I write here phonetic trasncribtion or where can I find in the Internet phonetic transcription?


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## Agró

Here.

/ˈmæntʃəstə/


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## natkretep

Mich, you can try http://elc.polyu.edu.hk/CiLL/ipatypewriter.htm   and then cutting and pasting.

The first syllable of Manchester always has a short syllable. It could be [æ], but many British speakers in the north might have something like [a], still a short vowel.

(Moderator update: Note the updated link (including the www2.) http://www2.elc.polyu.edu.hk/CiLL/ipatypewriter.htm )


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## ewie

I happen (through no real fault of my own) to _live_ in Manchester, though I'm actually _from_ a town to the north of here.  The Manchester way of saying _Manchester_ can sound a bit (erm ...) weird in someone with a strong accent's mouth: /'mænʧɪstɒ/ ~ more or less.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Bobbum said:


> Same as Manhatten.


 
I have never heard of any place called _Manhatt*e*n._

On the other hand, the "a" in both the first and second syllables of _Manhatt*a*n_ would be the short a of _man_ or _cat_, and the last "a" is at best a schwa.


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## a little edgy

Michkucz, are you by any chance referring to the difference between the British and American pronunciations of this name? See above for the pronunciation of the British city (which some Americans would also use when referring to that city). In the US, there are many cities and towns named Manchester. As far as I know, all of them are pronounced with no schwa: Man-Chest-Er, stress on the first syllable.


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## natkretep

Edgy - I think Mich was thinking of the football (soccer) club Manchester United - he referred to 'sports journalists'.


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## a little edgy

Well, they play sports in Manchester, New Hampshire, too. 

Nevertheless, I'm sure you're right natkretep. I missed the sports reference - not for the first or, probably, the last time!


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## pickarooney

I think, from a neutral observer's point of view, the difference between 'southern' and 'northern' pronunciations of 'Manchester' lies more in the stress and length of the syllables than in the pronunciations of the individual letters. 

The first 'e' is almost inaudible in southern English accents, as I hear it whereas in Lancashire it can vary from a strong schwa to /ɛ/ or ɪ. The 'a' there does sound more like an /a/ than a /æ/ to me too and the final syllable more open.

I've only actually been to Manchester once, but there are a disproportionate number of famous Mancunians on whom I've largely based my sketchy knowledge.


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## ziga95

Hi everyone! I've always been unsure about the pronunciation of "Manchester". Does the accent fall on the A (mànchester) or on the first E (manchèster)? Thanks for your help


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## natkretep

I assume you're referring to the Manchester in England and the home of the football club. That's the one I'm familiar with, and I've always heard MANchester 
/ˈmæntʃəstə/.

Mod note: ziga's thread (from post 14) has been merged with an earlier thread.


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## Bevj

natkretep said:


> I assume you're referring to the Manchester in England and the home of the football club. That's the one I'm familiar with, and I've always heard MANchester
> /ˈmæntʃəstə/.


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## PaulQ

I'm with natkretep; the emphasis is on the first syllable.


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## ziga95

Thank you very much! Recently I've read that Manchester citizens say "manchèster", while other people say mànchester, probably because referring to the football team. Is that correct?


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## Bevj

I have _never_ heard 'ManCHEster', whether referring to the football team or not.


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## dreamlike

ziga95 said:


> Thank you very much! Recently I've read that Manchester citizens say "manchèster", while other people say mànchester, probably because referring to the football team. Is that correct?


I think it's very unlikely, Ziga. The correct pronunciation, one given by dictionaries and used by (almost) all people, whether they are from Manchester or elsewhere, is *ˈ*mæntʃestə (the stress falls on the first syllable), 
I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it differently. It would sound odd.


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## ziga95

I understand. Thank you all


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## chipulukusu

Hi, I come frequently to Manchester and, to my foreign ears I also had the impression at first that Mancunians pronounce ManCHESter. To be honest I also had the impresson that they say "How _moch_?" like in _notch_.
I think this was just on account of my untrained ears. Maybe Mancunians just pronounce vowels in a slightly _more open_ and longer way than southerners do, so it was not easy for me to understand where the accent was actually put.
That was my own experience.


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## ziga95

chipulukusu said:


> Hi, I come frequently to Manchester and, to my foreign ears I also had the impression at first that Mancunians pronounce ManCHESter. To be honest I also had the impresson that they say "How _moch_?" like in _notch_.
> I think this was just on account of my untrained ears. Maybe Mancunians just pronounce vowels in a slightly opener and longer way than southerners do, so it was not easy for me to understand where the accent was actually put.
> That was my own experience.



Thank you!


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## Rover_KE

There's not much difference between the pronunciations of Manchester by native speakers here.

Only the Argentinian somehow manages to put the stress on the last syllable.

Point of information: there's more than one football team in Manchester.

Rover


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## aprendiendo argento

According to the Oxford Dictionary of English (NODE; the largest single-volume Oxford Dictionary for native speakers of English):

*Manchester*

             Pronunciation:              /ˈmantʃɪstə/

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Manchester?q=Manchester


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## dreamlike

Rover_KE said:


> There's not much difference between the pronunciations of Manchester by native speakers here.



Is it just me, or the vowel cAt (æ) in _M*a*nchester_ sounds more of an 'ɛ' in the pronunciation that has three votes, whereas in the other three the same vowel sounds more of an 'a'? 
I'm pretty sure my ears are not leading me astray.


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## sound shift

dreamlike said:


> Is it just me, or the vowel cAt (æ) in _M*a*nchester_ sounds more of an 'ɛ' in the pronunciation that has three votes, whereas in the other three the same vowel sounds more of an 'a'?
> I'm pretty sure my ears are not leading me astray.


Morning,

The vowel in the pronunciation that has three votes sounds like a typical /æ/ to me, dreamlike. The speaker sounds as if he comes from the south of England. I hear a clear distinction between "man" and "men", even in the speech of southerners. But you are right inasmuch as that speaker uses a more frontal vowel than the other three. The first of these three sounds as if he might come from Manchester (which counts as part of the north of England).


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## dreamlike

sound shift said:


> Morning,
> 
> The vowel in the pronunciation that has three votes sounds like a typical /æ/ to me, dreamlike. The speaker sounds as if he comes from the south of England. I hear a clear distinction between "man" and "men", even in the speech of southerners. But you are right inasmuch as that speaker uses a more frontal vowel than the other three. The first of these three sounds as if he might come from Manchester (which counts as part of the north of England).


Thank you for your answer.  I think the same goes for the other two men whom /æ/ is less frontal than that of the first man with three votes. I mean, producing a less frontal /æ/ is typical for people from the north, right? So all three of them may well come from Manchester. I can't tell the difference between /æ/ of these three men.


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## chipulukusu

sound shift said:


> The first of these three sounds as if he might come from Manchester (which counts as part of the north of England).



I agree, as a non native! The way _sailoddr_ pronounces _Manchester_ is exactly how I expect to hear from a genuine Mancunian*. To my ears it is like the word had two accents, a stronger one on the first syllabe and a weaker one on the second.
I think the lenght of the vowel in the second syllabe has to do here. Practically non-existent in the case of the person from the South, perfectly audible in the other case.
It is OT here, but it reminds me about Arabic, where there are no accents and the stress on parts of a word is given only by the lenght of the vowel.

*Maybe more from Stockport or Cheadle than from Bury or Oldham...


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## flapane

Bevj said:


> I have _never_ heard 'ManCHEster', whether referring to the football team or not.



Actually, I think zinga's doubts come from the fact that most italian  sports journalists are recently starting to pronounce it with a strong stress  on the second syllable, way stronger than  sailorddr's, while it has  been similar to  palashdave's in the past years (don't ask me why, though). The way they pronounce  it sounds like 'ManCHEster' with an open a and a strong stress on the e.
From what I understand, sailorddr's version should be closer to the way a Mancunian would pronounce it.


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## chipulukusu

flapane said:


> I think zinga's doubts come from the fact that most italian  sports journalists are recently starting to pronounce it with a strong stress  on the second syllable



I totally agree with you flapane. Proof is the fact that they say ManCHESter United (a bit too long!) while they inconsistently say MANchester City (more viable!).


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## Lucy01

flapane said:


> Actually, I think zinga's doubts come from the fact that most italian  sports journalists are recently starting to pronounce it with a strong stress  on the second syllable, way stronger than  sailorddr's, while it has  been similar to  palashdave's in the past years (don't ask me why, though). The way they pronounce  it sounds like 'ManCHEster' with an open a and a strong stress on the e.
> From what I understand, sailorddr's version should be closer to the way a Mancunian would pronounce it.



Yes, the way sailorddr pronounces it is exactly how someone from Manchester would say it. I am from Manchester and I pronounce it just like that.

I have always noticed a difference between how people from the North (or specifially, people from Manchester) and people from the South of England pronounce 'Manchester'. They both seem to put the stress on the MAN, but I think that Mancunians definitely pronounce the CHEST syllable more than Southerners do. I also find that Southerners use a longer vowel sound for the first A. I hear it like this:

Mancunian: MAN-CHEST-er
Southerner: Maaan-ch'ster


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## flapane

Thank you. 
As a sidenote, this summer I had the chance to stay a few days in Manchester and other parts of the Northwest (and Scotland, too). It was a little bit of a challenge because it's not the kind of british accent you'd hear in London, nor the american accents I'm used to, but at least I could hear the mancunian pronounciation in first person. I noticed too that there was a certain emphasis on 'chest'.


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## ziga95

Thank you very much for all your answers.  I think I solved this problem, since I've recently spoken with an english professor and he said that the correct pronounciation is ManCHEster, because the suffix "chester" originates from the Latin word CASTRUM, which means camp, encampment. 
Please let me know your opinion


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## JustKate

My opinion is that your professor is wrong.  If you read the rest of this thread, you'll find out that virtually every speaker of British English disagrees with your professor. The accent, when referring to the city in England, is always on the first syllable.

In the U.S., there are quite a few cities and towns called Manchester. Most of them accent the second syllable, but I'm sure there some that use the BE pronunciation with the accent on the first syllable.


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## JulianStuart

Your professor is right about the etymology, but wrong about that determining the stress in names derived from it - i.e. those ending in c(h)ester.


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## JustKate

I've been thinking about this some more, and actually for U.S. cities named Manchester, the accent is almost always on the first syllable as well. The main difference between AmE and BE is the pronunciation of the second syllable. Both dialects place the main accent on "MAN," but most speakers of AmE put more emphasis on the "CHEST" syllable than is typical for the pronunciation of Manchester, England, or at least for the pronunciation I've heard from BE speakers.


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## Walhaz

I think standard RP would have it /ˈmæn.tʃes.tə/ (I agree with dreamlike).

My pronunciation: [ˈmæːn.tʃɛs.tɜ] (Estuary/RP-ish accent)
What I hear in Spain alot: [ˈman.tʃes.teɾ]


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## Loob

JulianStuart said:


> Your professor is right about the  etymology, but wrong about that determining the stress in names derived  from it - i.e. those ending in c(h)ester.


I agree with Julian on both counts.

The only UK place-name I know where the stress falls on the syllable "*ches"* is Chester.  That said, there are regional and personal variations in how far the vowel in the unstressed "*ches*" syllable is attenuated to a schwa or schwi.  I'm pretty sure I say "Manchester" with a schwi sound in the second syllable; but I'm also pretty sure that I give the second syllable of "Dorchester" its full, non-attenuated, value....


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## JulianStuart

There is a wiki on the name element "chester" in English place names.  It has pronunciations for some of them in the linked pages.  The e in chest sometimes is an e, sometimes an i (reduced or otherwise to schwi or schwa if you don't have a schwi).  I could not find one where the stress was on the chester element.  For Manchester, we have evidence (above) that if there is a stress on the ches part, it is accompanied by a stress on the man part as well. 

I can imagine an older form of RP* using something closer to an e for the a at the beginning MENchester, although I've not actually heard it.
(*The form where a Victorian lady defined the word "sex" as "those bags that coal was delivered in")


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## natkretep

Lucy01 said:


> I have always noticed a difference between how people from the North (or specifially, people from Manchester) and people from the South of England pronounce 'Manchester'. They both seem to put the stress on the MAN, but I think that Mancunians definitely pronounce the CHEST syllable more than Southerners do. I also find that Southerners use a longer vowel sound for the first A. I hear it like this:
> 
> Mancunian: MAN-CHEST-er
> Southerner: Maaan-ch'ster


I think this also reflects a general tendency between northern and southern English accents. There is more vowel reduction in the south. You are more likely to hear a full vowel in the first syllable of _c*o*mmand_ or the second syllable of _Lanc*a*ster_ in the north too.

And yes, this is to do with the choice between the full or the reduced vowel rather than stress placement.


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## Loob

, Nat!

(That was what I was struggling, rather incoherently, to say in my post 39.)


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## alemoon

Hi dreamlike, 

it's a bit confusing the stress. I would rather say where the accent falls, I suppose it falls to the second. Manchéster....as chester shoud be the word coming from the latin Castrum. 
thanks,


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## JustKate

As you'll see if you read the entire thread, the accent falls on the *first* syllable in BE - that's something all the BE speakers who have contributed to the thread agree on. In AmE, the stress is also usually on the first syllable, but we tend to enunciate the second syllable a little more strongly than BE speakers do.


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## PaulQ

natkretep said:


> Mich, you can try http://elc.polyu.edu.hk/CiLL/ipatypewriter.htm  and then cutting and pasting.


The site is no longer available, however there is an IPA keyboard here: http://ipa.typeit.org/full/


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## JulianStuart

PaulQ said:


> The site is no longer available, however there is an IPA keyboard here: http://ipa.typeit.org/full/


The link is missing www2. It should be:
http://www2.elc.polyu.edu.hk/CiLL/ipatypewriter.htm
That link, along with some others related to IPA can be found in the Resources thread (2nd sticky in the forum)


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## chipulukusu

As a non native speker, if I would be asked to reproduce the way I hear the word _Manchester_ pronounced by people raised in the Greater Manchester area, I would pronounce MANchester, but with a pause or a hesitation between MAN and CHESTER. Just a millisecond or so... 
Notably, I've never heard this pronunciation by anyone raised outside the Greater Manchester area.


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