# 着 - 看着真年轻



## Skatinginbc

What is the function of 着 in 您看着真年轻?  
1) 表示动作正在进行或状态的持续 (e.g., 看着他被打)
2) 加在动词后面,使其变成介词 (e.g., 沿着;挨着;朝着)
3) 以上皆非. 

I guess it is 3).  您真年轻 is a complete sentence containing all necessary elements (i.e.,  subject + predicate). 看着 seems to be an extra element (adverbial)  to limit the scope of the predicate.     It is to make the verb phrase function like a prepositional phrase (i.e., 看着 = "by the looks")

Is my interpretation correct?


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## xiaolijie

Your #1 is close to what 着 is doing here: 着 not only indicates that an action or activity is going on, but also a state which may last for some time., so in "您看着真年轻", 着 is used to indicate a relatively stable state.


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## Skatinginbc

So "您看着真年轻" connotes a stable state whereas 您看起来真年轻 is more about a state of the moment?


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## xiaolijie

The function of 真 in the sentence is to indicate a (relatively stable) state, but it's not necessarily something conscious/ prominent in the speaker's mind when s/he says it. It's certainly not used as an opposition of 您看起来真年轻.


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## brofeelgood

I have a couple of questions.

- 沿着小路走去 (along)
- 朝着大海奔去 (towards)

Here, the prepositions are 沿着 and 朝着 in their entirety, not just 着, right? We could discard 着 and still retain the crux of the expressions. Also, doesn't conventional use of prepositions necessitate an action (走去, 前进) to be present or implied?

- 孩子挨着妈妈的肩膀睡着了 (lean on)

着 alone is the preposition in this sentence. In my opinion, this would be the only case that falls into (2).

I think 着 in 您看着办 is a valid preposition, but in 您看着真年轻, the 看着 is simply an intransitive verb that means look, seem, appear.


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## Skatinginbc

Thank you, xiaolijie and brofeelgood. 
 着 in the following sentences indicates a continuous ongoing state:    
土地擱着不用佷可惜 (= topicalization of 土地 from 擱着土地不用 + 土地佷可惜)
肚子撐着佷難受 (= topicalization of 肚子 from 撐着肚子 + 肚子佷難受)

您看着真年轻  seems to be a  topicalization of 您 from 看着您 + 您真年轻 "Looking at you + you are really  young = You look really young".  Is my analysis correct?  If so, then 真年轻 is the main verb (predicator) and 看着, which is part of the argument, defines the scope or condition of the subject.  Am I correct?

Re: 她整天买醉，看着真的很难受; 血淋淋的毛鸡蛋看着真恶心; 您看着真舒服
To me, they are transformations from topicalization of the object: 
(我)吃完飯了 > 飯, (我)吃完了 
(我)看着她整天买醉 > 她整天买醉，(我)看着... 
(我)看着血淋淋的毛鸡蛋 > 血淋淋的毛鸡蛋, (我)看着... 
(我)看着您 > 您, (我)看着... 
The transformation plus the omission of the subject 我 makes it a non-finite clause, which serves as the subject of the predicate 真的很难受/真恶心/真舒服.

您看着真舒服 is structurally ambiguous.  It can be a topicalization from (1) 看着您真舒服, or (2) 看着您 + 您真舒服.


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## brofeelgood

In my current inebriated stupor (it's 9:20p on a Saturday), I'm seeing lantern riddles... 

(因为)土地擱着不用 / (因为)搁着土地不用 = (所以)佷可惜
(因为)肚子撐着 / (因为)撑着肚子 = (所以)佷難受

搁着 and 撑着 appear to be direct actions applied on 土地 and 肚子 respectively.

But (因为)您看着 / (因为)看着您 = (所以你)真年轻.  This seems to imply you are young *because* I'm looking at you.

I hope I'm not throwing more gremlins into this discussion.


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## Skatinginbc

brofeelgood said:


> (因为)您看着 / (因为)看着您 = (所以你)真年轻.  This seems to imply you are young *because* I'm looking at you.


It may also imply "You are young *when* I'm looking at you" (and ugly when I'm not ).   Indeed, 看着 would be a subordinate clause that limits the scope,  condition, or circumstance of the *subject* (i.e, 您 in a particular  condition, e.g., when I'm looking) if 着 is interpreted as a  continuous ongoing state.  The only possibility left now is (3) 以上皆非.   For instance, 着 is a dialectal variant of 起來 (i.e., 着 = 起來). 

Phrases that consist of 起來 tend to serve an adverbial function, for instance, 
說起來 ("technically speaking"), 我們還是親戚. 
相形起来 ("in comparison"), 她的标致更顯得美玉增辉.
     So we made a full circle, now back to my original post: 看着 seems to be  an extra element (adverbial)  to limit the scope of the *predicate* (not subject).  It  is to make the verb phrase function like a prepositional phrase (i.e.,  看着 = "by the looks")


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## YangMuye

着 sounds almost the same as 起来 to me. I think it means *when*.

   您看着很年轻 -> 当人们看你*时*，通常会*感到*很年轻。
   这支笔写着很舒服 -> 当人们使用这只笔*时*，通常会*感到*很舒服。

Clearly you can insert 就 after it.

   您看着*就*很年轻
   您看着*都*很年轻

Maybe 着 is more or less a voice and aspect marker like 得.

* 您看*见*很年轻 (does not make sense)
* 我看*见*很年轻 (sounds like a one-time, finished action)
* 我看*得*很年轻 (does not make sense)
   您看*着*很年轻
   您显*着*很年轻
   您显*得*很年轻
? 您*感觉*很年轻
* 您觉*得*很年轻
* 您感*到*很年轻
* 您感*着*很年轻

看 can be a stative verb, e.g. 我看他看得很开, but has different meanings.

It seems that some verbs fit better with 得 while some with 着. Generally speaking, when you can say "something verb-着 很 adjective", you can say "something 很 adjective", too. 显着 might be an exception, which is similar to 有着. 这游戏很开心 seems another exception. I won't say it's totally ungrammatical, but it doesn't sound natural to me.

   这些书卖得很快。
* 这些书卖着很快。

   这游戏玩着很开心。
* 这游戏玩得很开心。
?  这游戏很开心。

着 is not always necessary. I don't know why 这只笔写*得*很舒服 sounds strange, but 这只笔写*字*很舒服 sounds perfect to me.
However, 这只笔*我*写*字*很舒服 is less natural than 这支笔*我*写*着*很舒服.

这只笔写字很舒服 can't have a explicit subject, but 这支笔我写着很舒服 can. However it's not easy to expand this sentence.

? 我写着这支笔很舒服
* 我写这支笔着很舒服
  我用着这支笔，(觉得)很舒服

In the last case, I don't know why 用着 sounds much better than 写着. The sentence structure is also different. 觉得 can be omitted, but I prefer to keep it.

着 is not always interchangeable with 起来.

     看*起来*您很年轻
*   看*着*您很年轻

    您*显着*很年轻
    您*显得*很年轻
    您*显起来*很年轻

*显着*您很年轻
*显得*您很年轻
* *显起来*您很年轻


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## Skatinginbc

YangMuye said:


> 着 sounds almost the same as 起来 to me.


Agree.  I think it falls into a category of _*prepositions *_(e.g., 起来, 上去, 得) that follow the verb to indicate a result or an attribute (用在動詞後，表示結果或性狀), for instance, 
他看起来挺好的, 他看上去挺好的, 他看着挺好的, 这本小说我看得挺好的.  I don't know the proper terminology for that group of prepositions.  Let me call them "*copular markers*"  for now, so named for their function of changing certain verbs into  copular verbs.  Those "certain verbs" are ones that can be both  transitive (e.g., 寫信, 顯應) and intransitive (e.g., 寫了好久; 奇石顯), including sense verbs (e.g., 看他, 摸他, 聞他, 聽他).  A copular marker is _required_ to transform such a verb (e.g., 顯威風) into a copula (e.g., 顯得挺威風的).  In English, sense verbs can simply precede the adjective (e.g., "It smells really good"), but it is not permitted in Chinese (e.g., *它聞挺好的 vs. 它聞起来挺好的).


YangMuye said:


> 这支笔写着很舒服 -> 当人们使用这只笔*时*，通常会*感到*很舒服。


This is a puzzle I'm still trying to figure out: 很舒服 does not modify the subject 这支笔 (cf. *这支笔很舒服).  Rather, it modifies an implied subject 用这只笔*写 *(cf. 用这只笔*写*字很舒服).  There must be a difference in underlying structure between 这支笔写着很順 (cf. 这支笔很順) and 这支笔写着很舒服.

这支笔写着很順 This pen, when used for writing, is smooth.  The subject is 这支笔.
这支笔写着很舒服 Writing with this pen is comfortable.  The subject is 这支笔写着.
Does my tentative explanation make any sense?


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## YangMuye

这支笔很舒服 actually sounds marginally acceptable to me. cf. 这个枕头(睡着)很舒服.

I guess many adjectives can be more like adverbs when they are used predicatively.
Even adjectives like 便宜 and 贵 only make sense when activities like 交易 are involved.

　玫瑰的刺很疼 -> 玫瑰的刺扎着很疼
　北京很贵 -> 北京住着很贵

Although I prefer the full version, I think the short version is perfectly understandable, too.
Your proposed _copular relation_ might actually be a special case where the sentence is still understandable when the verb is omitted.

How about
　结局*让*人看*着*很窝火/开心. 
　结局看*着**让*人很窝火/开心. 
　结局看*着*很窝火/开心. 
? 结局很窝火/开心.
　结局很欢乐.

Obviously the ending does not have a heart (心), but after I repeat it twenty times, it doesn't feel wrong anymore.


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## Skatinginbc

YangMuye said:


> How about
> 结局*让*人看*着*很窝火/开心.
> 结局看*着**让*人很窝火/开心.
> 结局看*着*很窝火/开心.
> ? 结局很窝火/开心.
> 结局很欢乐.


We are discussing cases where N is not the doer of 看 in N+看*着*, so 结局*让*人看*着*很窝火 is out. 
结局(看*着)**让*人很窝火, which still makes sense even without 看*着*, is an example of "copular-marking". 

结局看*着*很窝火 seems to be a case of what I described in Post #6: 
(我)看着她整天买醉 + (我)真的很难受 > 她整天买醉，(我)看着 + (我)真的很难受 = 她整天买醉，看着真的很难受
(我)看*着*结局 + (我)很窝火 > 结局, (我)看着 + (我)很窝火 = 结局看*着*很窝火.
Note: We may substitute 我 with 任何人, which I think is the implied meaning when the subject is missing.

Actually, 结局看*着*很窝火 is structurally similar to 结局看了很窝火 or 錢拿了還不滿足.  They are structures that I am familiar with.  The copular marking function of 着 is what is new to me, and I'm still trying to figure out its subtle nuances. 

Which of the following is the most faithful, literal translation for 他看着挺好的 (Note: I'm not asking which one is the best English sentence)?       
1) He looks nice. (It is my choice for 他看起来挺好的)
2) He, at first glance, seems nice. (It is my choice for 他看上去挺好的)
3) He, when looked at, seems nice.
4) He, as someone to look at or observe, seems nice.  (It is my intuitive interpretation for 他看着挺好的 ). 
5) None of the above.


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## retrogradedwithwind

鉴于我的英语水平，我还是用汉语回吧。


1，有一种语法现象是"名词做状语"，古汉语中常见，现代汉语中也不少见。
印象最深刻的例子是:
山行六七里
山，做状语，而不是行的主语。
翻译成白话文是:在大山之中，(我)走六七里路

2，另一种语法现象是，当你我他这样的人称代词做主语时，主语习惯性的被省略。古汉语中几乎都会省略，现代汉语中(尤其是现代汉语的口语中)省略也常见。
上面那句就是例子。

分析下面两句就是:
这只笔写字很舒服
上面两个语法现象都存在。
补全就是: (用)这笔写字(我感觉)很舒服

这只笔写着很舒服
这句我读着不自然。我会说，
这只笔用着很舒服
补全是，这只笔(我)用着很舒服
这里还有一个常见语法现象，宾语前置。这种语法现象常见到了，呃，简直可以说是正常的汉语句型了。
上句调整语序是:
我用着这笔(我)很舒服。
其他例子:
钱包给我
鱼买三条
桌子挪到墙角去
(作用应该是强调宾语，对比  鱼买三条 和 买三条鱼。 另外，这个好像也是省略了把字的把字句。对比，钱包给我和把钱包给我。这两种都很自然，但鱼买三条，我觉得很顺口，把鱼买三条就没那么顺口了。)

把这三种情况综合起来，就可以发现，句子打头的那个名词可能是 a主语 b状语 c宾语。这三种都是常见情况。

结局看着窝火
这里的结局，可以看成是主语，也可以看成宾语。
==========
我感觉，着，有进行时的意思，相对应的，得，有完成时的意思。
不过这点区别太细微了，似乎没必要区分。
您看着年轻——一直在看，说话时也没停
您显得年轻——已经看完并做出结论了。但此时还在对话，显然还在看。

确实有些词习惯和着搭配，如看着闻着，有些习惯和得搭配，如显得觉得，有些两个皆可，如用着用得。

====
以上就是我的看法，参考了各位的意见。

说实话，我觉得讨论这个问题完全超出我的能力范围了。挺好奇的，Skatinginbc, 你是专门研究语言的？


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## brofeelgood

In many languages, it's enough to mention the main point (重点) without saying out the full sentence.
- (English) George, the tree! -> George, (watch out for) the tree!
- (German) Ich kann Deutsch -> I can (speak) German.

I suppose the same applies to Chinese.
- 北京很贵 -> 北京(住着)很贵
- 这枕头很舒服 -> (我躺在)这枕头(上,觉得)很舒服



retrogradedwithwind said:


> 说实话，我觉得讨论这个问题完全超出我的能力范围了。挺好奇的，Skatinginbc, 你是专门研究语言的？



我也一样. 到了最后几个贴, 我已完全跟不上, 但对汉语语法的认识确实又增添了不少.


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## Skatinginbc

retrogradedwithwind said:


> 这只笔写着很舒服...这句我读着不自然。我会说，这只笔用着很舒服


I think I might have caught the nuance of 着 thanks to  retrogradedwithwind's 这句我读着不自然, which seems to mean "When I was reading  it, I felt that sentence sounds unnatural."  In other words, 这句我读着不自然 < (當)我读着这句 + (我觉得这句)不自然.  So, 您看着真年轻 means  (當)我看着您 + (我觉得您)真年轻.  And 这只笔用着很舒服 means (當)我用着这只笔 + (我觉得这只笔)很舒服. 
Is my interpretation correct?  


YangMuye said:


> 着 sounds almost the same as 起来 to me. I think it means *when*.


And my above interpretation of 着 fits well with what YangMuye has suggested. I hope I finally got it right.  I'm waiting for confirmation with bated breath.   


retrogradedwithwind said:


> 有一种语法现象是"名词做状语"....这只笔写字很舒服...补全就是: (用)这笔写字(我感觉)很舒服


Thank you for pointing that out.  It is very helpful. 


retrogradedwithwind said:


> 结局看着窝火
> 这里的结局，可以看成是主语，也可以看成宾语。


I think 结局 is the topic (主题语).  The sentence is a combination of two clauses  (當我)看着结局 + (我觉得)窝火.  The subjects for both clauses are implied but not specified.  The object 结局 is moved to the front serving as the topic that governs both clauses.


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## retrogradedwithwind

着在这里是有进行时的意思，不过好像分辨出这个进行时没有意义。

另外，注意谓语动词，如果谓语动词既可以用来形容物，还可以用来形容人，就很麻烦。

结局看着窝火。
可以是，我看着这个结局感到窝火(看着这个结局我感到窝火)。
也可以是，结局窝火，中间加上了看着两个字。

这句我读着自然也可以做以上两种解释，当然，最终，这两种解释都是一个意思。


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## Skatinginbc

Thanks, retrogradedwithwind.
I thought 结局*让人*窝火.  I didn't know 结局 itself can 窝火.


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## Skatinginbc

Brief summary of what I have learned so far: 

There are two types of N+看着+Adj:

1. N is NOT the subject of Adj: It corresponds to English cleft sentences, for instance, 她整天买醉，看着真的很难受 "_It is_ truly heartbreaking_ to see _her getting drunk all day."  The underlying subject is 看着她整天买醉 "_to see _her getting drunk all day"，

2.  N is the subject of Adj: 着 is a copular marker, parallel to 起来 and 上去  in grammatical function.  Subtle differences in nuance, nevertheless,  can be expressed by different copular markers.  For instance, 
 他看起来真年轻 He looks young.
他看上去真年轻 He, at first glance, seems young. 
他看着真年轻 When I look at him, I feel he is young.  

Thank you, Xiaolijie, Brofeelgood, YangMuye and Retrogradedwithwind, for you valuable thoughts and helps.  Love you all.


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