# Il n'y a pas de quoi / de rien / je vous en prie



## Harry Batt

The meaning of  "il n'y pas de quoi" was taught to mean "it is nothing to me" when I took my first French course in the 1950s. I have never heard it spoken during any number of trips to France. Has it slipped from popularity?


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## dmg

Maybe you've heard the contraction "Y'a pas de quoi". It's quite popular in the language. Another common idiom is "De rien" (That's nothing/Your welcome)


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## david314

Middle Americans often say, _(there's)_ _nothing to it_.


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## Mezzofanti

_Il n'y a pas de quoi_, à me fier à ce que j'entends, s'emploie pour répondre poliment à un remerciement.
"Je vous remercie"
- "Il n'y a pas de quoi."

Thank you. - That's all right/ It was nothing/ You're welcome (AE)

_Il n'y a pas de quoi_ is verbatim the same as the Spanish "no hay de que" used in the same circumstances. But it is not of course the politest, upper register, reply, which would be "Je vous en prie" = "Don't mention it" (BE)

I can't see in what circumstances it would correspond to "It is nothing to me".


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## marget

I'd say "you're welcome"


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## tilt

Harry Batt said:


> The meaning of  "il n'y pas de quoi" was taught to mean "it is nothing to me" when I took my first French course in the 1950s. I have never heard it spoken during any number of trips to France. Has it slipped from popularity?


As Dmg said, it's still very common, at least in Parisian French.


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## Moon Palace

It is still much used indeed, but many times you will hear the shortcut 'pas de quoi' only.


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## Juna Frato

Hi,

I'd say that the current use of "il n'ya pas de quoi" -and its' derivatives, cloud the roots. Harry's French lessons dated from the fifties, after all.

It would be correct to translate as "it is nothing to me", however not _complete _(neither is "il n'y a pas de quoi" the original expression).

The polite way of dismissing a "thx" was "Please do not mention it, as it was no effort considering....." then to be completed by various reasons.
Both countries' upper class shared this custom and it therefore translates directly.

Being polite was still taken seriously in those days!

Juna Frato


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## Denis the fatalist

"Poli" ? Justement non. 
My old-fashioned education reminds me I always heard *not to* say "il n'y a pas de quoi". Why ? 
- as not courteous (I guess because saying so you discredit what you've done, which is what you mean, but also the situation of the person to whom you say it) 
- as being poor language (what an ugly phrase !)

Saying instead "ce n'est rien" has another "classe"...


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## itka

I completely agree with Denis the Fatalist. 
It's not polite at all. You can hear this answer from people without education and anyway in colloquial language.

It's always better not answer anything. In french, at the opposite of what you can learn in other languages like german, italian, and english, you are very polite when you don't answer to a "merci !"

"ce n'est rien" is not convenient in every situation...


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## Moon Palace

itka said:


> It's always better not answer anything. In french, at the opposite of what you can learn in other languages like german, italian, and english, you are very polite when you don't answer to a "merci !"



I too agree with Denis the Fatalist, 'pas de quoi' is not very polite indeed. Yet I beg to disagree about saying nothing: this is rude, the most polite answer to a 'merci' is 'je vous en prie'.


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## broglet

Harry: it is "il n'y *a *pas de quoi". I'm sure I've heard it and used it quite a bit in France. Another common response is "C'est moi" (a contraction of "c'est moi qui vous remercie")



Moon Palace said:


> I too agree with Denis the Fatalist, 'pas de quoi' is not very polite indeed. Yet I beg to disagree about saying nothing: this is rude, the most polite answer to a 'merci' is 'je vous en prie'.


Tu veux dire que "pas de quoi" est impoli? vraiment?


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## Denis the fatalist

broglet said:


> Tu veux dire que "pas de quoi" est impoli? vraiment?


 
Je sais bien que ce n'est pas à moi que ce discours s'adresse, mais...
Voui, même avec "il n'y a".


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## Moon Palace

broglet said:


> Tu veux dire que "pas de quoi" est impoli?  vraiment?



'il n'y a pas de quoi' and 'pas de quoi' are both much used orally, but they are not the most polite form, on the contrary. They are colloquial. 
In a formal context, or a written one, the real best way is 'je vous en prie'. Or for personal contexts 'c'est un plaisir'. But this goes beyond mere politeness.


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## broglet

Moon Palace said:


> 'il n'y a pas de quoi' and 'pas de quoi' are both much used orally, but they are not the most polite form, on the contrary. They are colloquial.


OK - je comprends ... mais denis dit qu'ils sont *im*polis - en es-tu d'accord?


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## Denis the fatalist

It's both colloquial...
... and impolite. 
But since most people don't understand it as such, is it still ill-mannered ? Vaste débat...


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## pieanne

I wouldn't say "pas de quoi" is impolite...
Maybe a bit abrupt/dissmissive?
But I guess it all depends on the manner you utter it!


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## Juna Frato

Politeness is defined by culture. Different cultures require different 'politenesses':

So we can agree that for different classes and situations, there's different solutions..? There's no guaranteed perfect way on how to be polite, as you never know the person you are talking tou, might have a different idea on politeness (this is only confirmed by the various opinions posted here on this thread). If you as a foreigner take the effort to adapt to "their" expressions, that mere fact alone will not always be recognized, but it is polite already. 

However, I do have to strongly disagree with Itka:
"_You can hear this answer from people without education_ "; unbelievable.
A bit of a snobbish/elitarian judgment, no.....? I have to say I'm a bit surprised to see comments like that on this forum, I really am.

Furthermore, it's totally disconnected from reality. If I would base my opinion on this "fact", I would have to assume that the larger part of the French people I know is without education...  which is of course, not true.

Common expressions (such as "il n'ya pas de quoi") are ALWAYS a reflection of shared values within a society/social class. NOT a question of education. We simply copy-paste what's expected from us in accordance with our resp. characters and role models.
The notion of politeness _itself _is entirely based on this. It's basically imposed rules, dictated by a certain social class/culture.  
I certainly expect someone as "educated" -apparently- as Itka, to know this.

Not replying to a "merci" (or "bonjour", for instance), is indeed a very common practice in France. However, it is NOT considered polite. It's an older value coming from the time where England and France did not have "a lot of love for each other"... Being a gentleman, or gentilhomme, was elaborated by the British and this elaboration (it is true, you can go on for hours expressing polite terms without actually saying anything). French communication is/was more direct and focuses more on content, not package (roughly put and no longer true as we're a few centuries further now and society has become much more complex)...........

My apologies for my "strong" reaction to Itka's posting; it might not have been very polite, but then again, that wasn't the intention....

Juna Frato


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## broglet

Denis the fatalist said:


> It's both colloquial...
> ... and impolite.
> But since most people don't understand it as such, is it still ill-mannered ? Vaste débat...


This reminds me of the soldier who said, "I'm marching in step - it's all the others who are out of step". You think it's impolite, but most people don't. Why is that?

Also, you said earlier that it 'discredits what you've done'.  But surely 'ce n'est rien' does that too.


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## Moon Palace

broglet said:


> This reminds me of the soldier who said, "I'm marching in step - it's all the others who are out of step". You think it's impolite, but most people don't. Why is that?
> 
> Also, you said earlier that it 'discredits what you've done'.  But surely 'ce n'est rien' does that too.


I believe there are things that ought to be distinguished: 'pas de quoi' indeed literally means 'nothing I have done justifies this gratefulness', and thus we could consider it removes all worthiness from the deed that brought the thanks about. But when we say it, we never think of what it means. It is one of these idioms that has become part of the everyday language, and which we use when someone says 'thank you'. 
Now I don't think it is impolite, I tend to agree with Fra Juno's analysis, politeness depends on people mainly and their upbringing or their culture. Yet what I can assert unquestioningly is that it is not a high standard of French. Since it answers the phrase 'thank you', I wouldn't think it is impolite as in itself it is a way of showing politeness. But true enough, I for one rarely use it. Except with good friends on occasions, when I don't feel constrained by a particular code of conduct. 
Hope it is clearer now.


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## broglet

Thanks Moon Palace. I think I understand much better now. I get the feeling that, rather than being impolite, it might be regarded as slightly 'low class'. Such subtleties are always difficult for non-natives to get a feel for.

How would you - and the other posters here - characterise the differences between il n'y a pas de quoi and:
1. ce n'est rien
2. c'est moi
3. je vous en prie 
4. silence      ?


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## Mezzofanti

> This reminds me of the soldier who said, "I'm marching in step - it's all the others who are out of step". You think it's impolite, but most people don't. Why is that?


 
The analogy doesn't work: it's horses for courses.  The majority of French-speakers, like the majority of English-speakers, are an excellent guide to what is accepted by the majority, but are not necessarily exemplary in grammar, manners or anything else.

Very many people now find it acceptable to chew gum while talking with a client.  That is their affair.  But they won't have me as a client if they do so.  Very many people find it acceptable to say "between you and I", but there are many circumstances in which the fact that a lot of people say this is not going to make it acceptable.

As to how to reply to an expression of thanks, there are different rules and standards for different social milieux.  You can't just say "This is accepted by those I mix with, and we represent the majority, so this is acceptable, full stop."  "Il n'y a pas de quoi" is decidedly _less_ polite than "je vous en prie", for instance.  If you are mingling in a social milieu which is above average in its concern for protocol, correct grammar, old-world courtesy, or any other standard not necessarily shared by the masses, it would be as well to be conscious of this.  
"Il n'y a pas de quoi" is, as far as I can assess, low and middle register, but not 100% acceptable in upper register, if you fancy that differentiation.

I have specifically heard some French-speakers correct others for using this expression.  The difficulty lies in identifying _who_ are those who have this standard. The difficulty is aggravated by political correctness ready to pounce on any attempt to suggest that education, wealth, intelligence or just about any other criterion makes people more likely to use one register rather than another.  But let's be brave and come straight out with it.  We're talking about people whom a less scrupulous age called "well-bred".  My apologies to those who have found this reality-check painful to their sensibilities.


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## tilt

_Il n'y a pas de quoi_ is not formal, but not impolite. And it's certainly much more polite than not answering at all!


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## Mezzofanti

> And it's certainly much more polite than not answering at all!


 
I'm not familiar with the "no answer" solution either. But might it not be like that fact that in England old-Etonians say "what?" and leave their knife and fork askew on the plate after eating, whereas the middle classes punctiliously say "I beg your pardon" and leave the cutlery pointing North-South, generally believing that only the rabble would do otherwise?


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## Moon Palace

broglet said:


> How would you - and the other posters here - characterise the differences between il n'y a pas de quoi and:
> 1. ce n'est rien de rien
> 2. c'est moi
> 3. je vous en prie
> 4. silence      ?



From the most formal downwards, I would go this way:
1. Je vous en prie
2. de rien
3. Pas de quoi
The last two are very near, it is more a question of low class indeed than one of politeness. 
C'est moi is different, it is something you say when you consider you ought to be more grateful than the person who actually thanks you. The message is more personal, it is a different thing. 
And again, silence is a rude thing to do when somebody says thanks to you. But I agree, it is very common these days. Doesn't make it evidence of savoir vivre for all that.


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## Denis the fatalist

> Juna Frato;3197446 If you as a foreigner take the effort to adapt to "their" expressions, that mere fact alone will not always be recognized, but it is polite already.


 
I d'say wrong. You're welcome to understand some south of France nice expressions as "con" or "putain", I advise you not to say it unless you were born here, even less "enculé" : at best you would be ridiculous. 



> I do have to strongly disagree with Itka: "_You can hear this answer from people without education_ "; unbelievable. A bit of a snobbish/elitarian judgment, no.....? I have to say I'm a bit surprised to see comments like that on this forum, I really am.


 
To have and have not education is not a judgement nor a comment, it's a statement -and sometimes a regret. True education is supposed to make people more clever, and the better evidence of it is that where there is less democracy, there is less education. A man who knows to read and to count is free, that's what I heard in my childhood. Would you like to use words the wrong way, even if x people at Google's do ? 



> it's totally disconnected from reality. If I would base my opinion on this "fact", I would have to assume that the larger part of the French people I know is without education... which is of course, not true.


This point is up to you. But your direct attempt against Itka may give us a clue.



> Common expressions (such as "il n'ya pas de quoi") are ALWAYS a reflection of shared values within a society/social class. NOT a question of education. We simply copy-paste what's expected from us in accordance with our resp. characters and role models


.

OK. Would you like to use words the wrong way, even if googling it shows that x people do so ? As for me I don't, and I let to your wisdom the famous "solution de continuité" then...



> The notion of politeness _itself _is entirely based on this. It's basically imposed rules, dictated by a certain social class/culture. I certainly expect someone as "educated" -apparently- as Itka, to know this.


 
Right. 
- Some people I know use to call their friends kind names as connard, enfoiré... Having lived her for 30 years, a friend of mine, who'se Danish and not French but who speaks a more fluent French than you and me, is still offended than some french people sometimes kindly say him "t'es con" and other confectionneries. 




> Not replying to a "merci" (or "bonjour", for instance), is indeed a very common practice in France. However, it is NOT considered polite. It's an older value coming from the time where England and France did not have "a lot of love for each other"... French communication is/was more direct and focuses more on content, not package (roughly put and no longer true as we're a few centuries further now and society has become much more complex)




My turn  : 
Would it be at Ducasse's or at The Joyfull st Hubert Inn's, when the waiter says "bon appétit" what do you do :
- nothing, maybe a light sign of the head and smile
- Thank you
- Fuck off

Two tries : 
- Luckily, you have considered some world statistics just before going and you've seen that 60% of the customers prefered answer 3

- you do what you think you should do, and by chance it's answer 1


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## Denis the fatalist

broglet said:


> Such subtleties are always difficult for non-natives to get a feel for.


 
the worst answer :
- pas de quoi = your problem was nothing, maybe you're a bit stupid not to have got through it by yourself

the best answers :
- ce n'est rien = Your problem was considerable for sure but I did (almost) nothing
- je vous en prie = c'est moi qui suis votre obligé, je suis prêt à vous rendre service à nouveau etc.
- Silence = great if with a slight bow and a smile

cas à part
- c'est moi = qui vous remercie (d'avoir pu vous rendre service)


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## broglet

Moon Palace said:


> From the most formal downwards, I would go this way:
> 1. Je vous en prie
> 2. de rien
> 3. Pas de quoi
> The last two are very near, it is more a question of low class indeed than one of politeness.
> C'est moi is different, it is something you say when you consider you ought to be more grateful than the person who actually thanks you. The message is more personal, it is a different thing.
> And again, silence is a rude thing to do when somebody says thanks to you. But I agree, it is very common these days. Doesn't make it evidence of savoir vivre for all that.


Merci Moon.  I appreciate that the literal meaning of "c'est moi" is as you say, but I suspect many of the people who use it are not thinking of that.  A waiter recently brought my delicious fish soup in Aigues Mortes and I said "merci".  "C'est moi" he replied.  I'm sure that all he meant was "it's my pleasure" rather than  "It is I who thanks you [for giving me the privilege of serving your soup]"!


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## houstontranslation

Mezzofanti said:


> _Il n'y a pas de quoi_, à me fier à ce que j'entends, s'emploie pour répondre poliment à un remerciement.
> "Je vous remercie"
> - "Il n'y a pas de quoi."
> 
> Thank you. - That's all right/ It was nothing/ You're welcome (AE)
> 
> _Il n'y a pas de quoi_ is verbatim the same as the Spanish "no hay de que" used in the same circumstances. But it is not of course the politest, upper register, reply, which would be "Je vous en prie" = "Don't mention it" (BE)
> 
> I can't see in what circumstances it would correspond to "It is nothing to me".



I totally agree with you : as far as I'm concerned, you gave the best explanation. Nothing to add...


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## Denis the fatalist

Again,
I forgot what was maybe the greatest answer, a bit like "don't mention it" :

"N'en parlons plus".

Réservé aux grandes occasions indeed...


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## tilt

Denis the fatalist said:


> the worst answer :
> - pas de quoi = your problem was nothing, maybe you're a bit stupid not to have got through it by yourself
> 
> the best answers :
> - ce n'est rien = Your problem was considerable for sure but I did (almost) nothing
> - je vous en prie = c'est moi qui suis votre obligé, je suis prêt à vous rendre service à nouveau etc.


I really don't understand why you make a difference between _Pas de quoi_ and _Ce n'est rien_, _De rien _or _Je vous en prie_, which mean exactly the same! They just say that the effort you made was really nothing compared to the the pleasure you had when doing service. For that matter, it's quite common to say _Pas de quoi/Je vous en prie/De rien, ça m'a fait plaisir._


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## kbbylily

Denis the fatalist said:


> the worst answer :
> - pas de quoi = your problem was nothing, maybe you're a bit stupid not to have got through it by yourself
> 
> the best answers :
> - ce n'est rien = Your problem was considerable for sure but I did (almost) nothing
> - je vous en prie = c'est moi qui suis votre obligé, je suis prêt à vous rendre service à nouveau etc.
> - Silence = great if with a slight bow and a smile
> 
> cas à part
> - c'est moi = qui vous remercie (d'avoir pu vous rendre service)



I so disagree with you.
your definitions are completly wrong.
I hope natives english wont take this as a truth!

when someone say "pas de quoi" it implies that you find the person stupid because he couldn't handle it himself??? 
They all means about the same.
with a little diference with "c'est moi" that i personaly say when someone say 'thank you" and that he has done something for me to.


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## Agent Literary

kbbylily said:


> They all means about the same.
> with a little diference with "c'est moi" that i personaly say when someone say 'thank you" and that he has done something for me to.


 
Apart from using different expressions in different circumstances, (depending on the 'level' of language that you are used to using with the person/type of person you are talking to), I agree - they are all just about the same in my experience.

Also, thank you for the reminder about why and when to use "c'est moi"


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## pieanne

Uh oh...

From my own experience:

1. Always say something to anyone who thanks you for something you have done - or express it via body-talk  

2. I'm not used to "ce n'est rien"; I say "de rien", with a warm smile.
"(Il n'y a) pas de quoi!", "Je t'/vous en prie!" are (to me) equally nice/polite, depending on your tone.

3. I'm used to "c'est moi" in a shop/restaurant context, sounds a bit automatic, not very personal.


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## Nicomon

pieanne said:


> 1.Always say something to anyone who thanks you for something you have done - or express it via body-talk
> 2. I'm not used to "ce n'est rien"; I say "de rien", with a warm smile.
> "(Il n'y a) pas de quoi!", "Je t'/vous en prie!" are (to me) equally nice/polite, depending on your tone.


 
I agree with every single of Pieanne's words.  

I say _de rien_ or _y'a pas de quoi_ in a non formal manner, to friends and family. Or you will often hear in Quebec _Bienvenue_ (a literal translation of "You're welcome)
I say  _je t'/vous en prie_ / _c'est moi qui te/vous remercie_ (depending on the situation) to persons I'm a little less familiar with. 

Does that make me low class or uneducated? I don't think so.


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## anangelaway

Denis the fatalist said:
			
		

> - Silence = great if with a slight bow and a smile


 
Hi, I wouldn't try that on the phone... I may look a bit ridiculous.


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## itka

I'm really afraid of the comments you made on my post !
I only tried to tell you what is the best to answer, but I really don't care if you prefer to do something different !

Anyway, everybody would understand you're not french and so it doesn't matter. Everybody would know you're not really aware of what you should have said.

I completely agree with Denis The Fatalist, but I want to go back on some details.

Of course, your answer will not be the same to a "merci" in a shop, in a restaurant, or if you helped a person to do some difficult work.

I maintain that most of the time, a smile is the best answer you can give. You're in a shop, you paid and the employee says "merci". Answer "de rien" or "il n'y a pas de quoi" would be simply ridiculous. You bought something and the employee thanks you for something.

You keep a door open for another person, and she says "merci" to you. You can answer a very formal "je vous en prie" or smile. Saying "pas de quoi" or "de rien" would be near impolite : it would implicate that this person is of no importance to you. It would overall show that you have no idea of the common good manners. Please, in every case, avoid the expression "pas de quoi" !

You lend money to a friend and he thanks you. It would be appropriate to answer "je t'en prie" and possibly add some words to express you acted simply as a friend .

From these examples, I wanted to show that politeness must be adapted to circumstances. It has no meaning in french (that's not true in other cultures where the answer is absolutely necessary) to repeat mechanically empty words.

- you're welcome
- prego
- bitte schön
are conformist and mandatory answers that you must pronounce to be polite. Nothing like that in french. If you want to reply something to a "merci" it must be appropriate otherwise it's actually better keep silent... and smile.

I hope you understand me though my english is very bad and that I have difficulties to express subtleties.

Je voudrais ajouter pour les francophones qui ne sont pas d'accord qu'il ne s'agit là que des codes couramment admis.
 Si vous employez habituellement l'expression "Ma petite dame" vous pouvez sans risque y adjoindre "pas de quoi", il s'agit du même registre et vous êtes libres de vous exprimer comme bon vous semble.
Je crois cependant qu'il est de notre devoir d'informer les non-francophones qui souhaitent parler le plus correctement possible notre langue qu'il vaut mieux éviter certains mots ou expressions, afin de rester dans un registre neutre et admis par tous.


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## broglet

itka - I appreciate that saying anything after a 'merci' in a shop could be absurd. Where would it stop? You pay for a baguette; 'Merci' 'says the shopkeeper, 'De rien', 'Mais si, Monsieur, merci mille fois', 'Je vous en prie', 'Vous êtes trop gentil', 'Mais pas du tout' ....

But can it really be true that saying 'De rien' in the door situation would imply 'that the person is of no importance to you'? Does not tone of voice come into any of this, or body language? 

You make a very valid point about concessions instinctively made to individuals recognised to be foreigners - I can and do 'pas de quoi' to my heart's content in all the 'wrong' situations and I'm sure that, on that account at least, nobody imagines for a moment that I consider them to be of no importance.

But more generally I can't help feeling that you may be over-egging the pudding of your argument.

By the way, 'you're welcome' (or any equivalent) is not a 'mandatory answer that you must pronounce to be polite'. There are many ways of being impolite in anglophone cultures, but failing to repeat what you call 'empty words' is not one of them.


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## nichec

broglet said:


> Merci Moon. I appreciate that the literal meaning of "c'est moi" is as you say, but I suspect many of the people who use it are not thinking of that. A waiter recently brought my delicious fish soup in Aigues Mortes and I said "merci". "C'est moi" he replied. I'm sure that all he meant was "it's my pleasure" rather than "It is I who thanks you [for giving me the privilege of serving your soup]"!


 
I have the same impression.

Waiters, shop-keepers, people work in banks.....etc, they all say "c'est moi (qui dit merci)" to me when I thank them.

And honestly, I don't hear "pas de quoi" much here in Paris. I hear "de rien" and "Je vous en prie" a lot.


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## Mezzofanti

Logically the form "il n'y a pas de quoi" (abbreviated or not) works best as a reply to "Je vous remercie"; whereas "de rien" works best as a reply to a simple "merci".  I can't make up my mind whether or not this corresponds to practice.


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## broglet

Mezzo - I don't really understand your logic. "Il n'y a pas de quoi" seems literally to mean "There is no reason for thanking me" whereas "de rien" means "there is nothing to thank me for". Hardly a hair's-breadth of nuance would seem to separate these two. 
Incidentally, Oxford-Hachette refers to '(il n'y a) pas de quoi' as a 'formule de politesse' which rather goes against Denis/itka's thesis that it is impolite.


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## nickhk

I am really surprised with what I've just read. For me "Il n'y a pas de quoi" (and contractions) definitely is a 'formule de politesse' 

I agree it is not very formal and mostly used in spoken French but it is still a polite way to answer to "merci". After, the use of it may depend on the region of France you are visiting but it has exactly the same meaning than "de rien".


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## Aoyama

> it is "il n'y *a *pas de quoi". (...) Another common response is "C'est moi" (a contraction of "c'est moi qui vous remercie")


Very much so, broglet is right.
It could also be translated as : don't mention it /that's OK/don't worry about it.


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## Mezzofanti

> Oxford-Hachette refers to '(il n'y a) pas de quoi' as a 'formule de politesse' which rather goes against Denis/itka's thesis that it is impolite.


 
I'm not so sure.  There can be expressions which are intended as polite but are considered by a certain part of society as the contrary - for instance in English the word "Pardon?" when one has misheard - a clanger which in many milieux would be considered less acceptable than murdering one's grandmother, but is undoubtedly "une formule de politesse". 

"Il n'y a pas de quoi" = "il n'y a pas de quoi me remercier".  But depreciating the service one has rendered is not necessarily the most deferential way of reacting to an expression of gratitude.

Translation is not just the art of rendering the _meaning_ of an expression, but also of evaluating its _flavour_ and _by whom and in what circumstances_ it is used. I have mentioned above that I have heard a French teacher correct an adolescent for using "de rien" - his objection did not concern the _intended_ politeness, but that he found that expression rather coarse, inelegant, smacking of the _insouciant_ hoi polloi. No one here is being asked to share the minority values of such a subjective judgment, but it is only fair and part of the role of this forum to point out that such attitudes exist. And there are occasions when most French people would judge it suitable to rise to a more conservative formula.


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## broglet

Mezzofanti said:


> I'm not so sure. There can be expressions which are intended as polite but are considered by a certain part of society as the contrary - for instance in English the word "Pardon?" when one has misheard - a clanger which in many milieux would be considered less acceptable than murdering one's grandmother, but is undoubtedly "une formule de politesse".
> 
> "Il n'y a pas de quoi" = "il n'y a pas de quoi me remercier". But depreciating the service one has rendered is not necessarily the most deferential way of reacting to an expression of gratitude.


Mezzofanti, I assume you are being deliberately provocative and enjoying a little private joke, but since this forum exists to help people understand other languages - and just in case anyone is misled by what you are saying - I think we need to be clear that there are no 'milieux' in which the word 'pardon' would be considered to be any kind of clanger at all, still less the equivalent of murdering one's grandma or anyone else. 

Of course, there are incurable snobs who would silently sneer at indications that their interlocutor was a member of what they regarded as an inferior class, but fortunately I rarely come across such people and if I did I would be more than happy to be viewed by them with contempt. 

I also have to say I disagree that _il n'y a pas de quoi_ 'depreciates the service one has rendered'. It does not imply that the service was no good; it (with perhaps feigned modesty) suggests that you regard good service as normal.  Nor does it in any way imply that you were not happy to provide the service or to be thanked for it.


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## Agent Literary

broglet said:


> Mezzofanti, I assume you are being deliberately provocative and enjoying a little private joke, but since this forum exists to help people understand other languages - and just in case anyone is misled by what you are saying - I think we need to be clear that there are no 'milieux' in which the word 'pardon' would be considered to be any kind of clanger at all, still less the equivalent of murdering one's grandma or anyone else.
> 
> Of course, there are incurable snobs who would silently sneer at indications that their interlocutor was a member of what they regarded as an inferior class, but fortunately I rarely come across such people and if I did I would be more than happy to be viewed by them with contempt.
> 
> I also have to say I disagree that _il n'y a pas de quoi_ 'depreciates the service one has rendered'. It does not imply that the service was no good; it (with perhaps feigned modesty) suggests that you regard good service as normal. Nor does it in any way imply that you were not happy to provide the service or to be thanked for it.


 
I couldn't disagree less.


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## pieanne

*(mais) de rien, (mais) (il n'y a pas) pas de quoi, c'est moi...*
It depends *so much* on the way you say it! I work in a shop (12 >3 PM ), and I say that all the time, but with a big smile. And I'm a very polite person!
On the other hand, say I'm driving, and I stop to let a pedestrian walk across the street, if he doesn't nod his thank, I might mutter under my breath ("et de rien, hein!")


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## tilt

itka said:


> You keep a door open for another person, and she says "merci" to you. *You can answer a very formal "je vous en prie"* or smile. *Saying "pas de quoi" or "de rien" would be near impolite* : it would implicate that this person is of no importance to you. It would overall show that you have no idea of the common good manners. Please, in every case, avoid the expression "pas de quoi" !


 
Définitions du TLF :


> *Il n'y a pas de quoi : *En réponse à des remerciements ou à des excuses dont on dit, par politesse, qu'ils n'ont pas de raison d'être.
> source
> 
> *Je vous en prie : *Pour répondre à une formule de politesse, éluder des remerciements
> source


Do you see any notable difference between them? I don't.

The problem is that Itka, and Denis the fatalist, mix up being polite and being formal. I totally agree you must adapt your speech to the person you speak to. And using a too much colloquial expression with a stranger can be considered as a lack of education, yes.
But it doesn't change anything to the fact that you clearly intended to be polite. I keep saying that suspecting bad thoughts in these words borders on paranoia.


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## broglet

tilywinn and tilt - you both make excellent and generalisable points (but the use of 'pardon' that you describe, tilywinn, would not make it either a 'clanger' or impolite). Tone of voice and body language are crucial. That is why emoticons are popular; they add non-verbal cues to text 'conversations' and can reduce ambiguity 

The politest words and _formules de politesse_ can become poisonous when spoken in certain ways and vice versa. But anybody who 'misuses' a _formule de politesse_ can be sure of one thing: if he intended to be polite, he will be seen as polite. Whether or not he is seen as knowledgeable about the language or well-bred is another matter.


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## Harry Batt

I had no idea that this thread of il n'y pas de quoi  would stir up such a nornet's next. Apparently my question is answered, that the expression is alive and kicking in the realm of conversation. My old professor who thought that the funniest word in the French language was le raseur would be happy to know that one of his favorite expressions, il n'y pas de quoi, would raise such a storm.


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