# A shot goose gabbles the most



## kusurija

Hi, all!
In situation, when someone does something bad, when noticed by others, starts cry how awfully is discriminated or insulted or other bad things say others does him: 

In Czech we use proverb:
Potrefená husa nejvíc kejhá! (A shot goose gabbles the most!)

In Lithuanian:
Pats muša, pats rėkia! (He insults, he himself cries!)

In English: (maybe somewhat simillar sense?)
A fox smells its own lair first.

In German:
Die angeschossen Gans schnattert am meisten. _or_ Wer im Glashaus sitzt, soll nicht mit Steinen werfen (?)

 I'm curious, 1. how do You translate this proverb
2. Have You any proverb in Your respective language with similar sense, but (maybe) other words?
Thanks in advance.


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## Arrius

The closest I can think of in English is *the pot calling the kettle black. *


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## kusurija

Arrius said:


> The closest I can think of in English is *the pot calling the kettle black. *


 In Lithuanian is almost the same:
Juokėsi puodas kad katilas juodas. 
Juokėsi - laughed
puodas - pot
kad - that
katilas - kettle
juodas - black


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## kusurija

Chi si scusa si accusa.


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## Arrius

*Chi si scusa si accusa.* (Italian) *kusurija*
is the same, word for word, as the French *Qui s'excuse, s'accuse*.
*Wer im Glashaus sitzt, soll nicht mit Steinen werfen* (German) *kusurija* corresponds to English
*People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones,* and to the Norwegian*, Folk som i glashuset bor skjulde icke med sten kaste.*
(Some jokers misquote the English version as _People who live in glass houses should always wear clothes!)_


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## jazyk

In Portuguese (Brazil): O roto (está) falando do rasgado./O rato (está) rindo do esfarrapado. = The scruffy one is speaking about the torn one.


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## Nizo

Latin: Excusatio non petita, accusatio manifesta.
Esperanto: Kiu sin ekskuzas, tiu sin akuzas.


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## Arrius

Nizo said:


> Latin: Excusatio non petita, accusatio manifesta.
> Esperanto: Kiu sin ekskuzas, tiu sin akuzas.


 
...which I take the liberty of enhancing with an English translation_:-_
Latin: _An excuse that was not asked for, is an obvious accusation._
Esperanto: _He who excuses himself, accuses himself._


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## qwill

In french, I think of  "C'est celui qui le dit qui y est... " (familiar, very often used by children)


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## mietagosia

Hey! In Polish we have a couple of those, they might differ a bit but the sense remains more or less the same:

1. Przyganiał kocioł garnkowi = A kettle insulted a pot
2. Na złodzieju czapka gore = A hat is burning on thief's head
3. Tylko winny się broni = Only a guilty one defends himself
4. Kto kogo przezywa sam się tak nazywa = commonly used by kids, it means more or less "Who calls someone with an insult, he himself is like that" (eg if you call me a loser, you're a loser yourself). 

Cheers!


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## sokol

kusurija said:


> In German:
> Die angeschossen Gans schnattert am meisten. _or_ Wer im Glashaus sitzt, soll nicht mit Steinen werfen



But the glass house metaphor doesn't mean _exactly _the same.
What would come closer is: "Ein jeder kehr vor seiner Tür, da hat er Mist genug dafür." (Translated into English approx.: "You'd better dispose of your own sh- ... well: litter first, there's enough there for which to care.") But it still isn't quite there.


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## qwill

Kto kogo przezywa sam się tak nazywa = commonly used by kids, it means more or less &quot;Who calls someone with an insult, he himself is like that&quot; (eg if you call me a loser, you're a loser yourself).  it's quite close to our "c'est c'ui ki l'dit ki y'est" (c'est celui qui le dit qui y est) often heard in our schoolyards...   I like "A kettle insulted a pot"  and "A hat is burning on thief's head"  We also have : "C'est l'hôpital qui s'fout de la charité"...  Salutations to Poland


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## unigirl

Given that "Kto kogo przezywa sam się tak nazywa" and "c'est celui qui le dit qui y est" are kids' insults, I think in english they would be similar to: "I know you are you said you are but what am I?" - a favourite saying of the under 12 year olds. This is said in a (highly annoying) specific singsong voice - is that the same with the polish and french sayings?


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## ThomasK

It might be very important, though incredibly difficult, to distinguish between all those meanings...


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## Dr. Quizá

According to the Italian, French and Latin expressions, the closest Spanish one I can think of is "quien se pica, ajos come" (~who gets hot/annoyed eats garlic), but I don't see either of them to fit very well Kusurija's first explanation.


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## qwill

In fact, all those common sayings in Czech, lithuanian, polish, german, italian, spanish, english and french (did I have forgotten any ?) are a very interesting trip into the various metaphoric linguistic landscapes though all around the world. I have been enchanted to read all these contributions which, certainly, covers sublte different nuances of the same idea...  Its fun.


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## Arrius

*"quien se pica, ajos come" (~who gets hot/annoyed eats garlic),*
Would you mind explaining the above saying, *Dr. Quizá*? I don't see the logic of it.


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## Dr. Quizá

Well, it's difficult to translate it since it plays with two different meanings of the verb "picar", being one "to provoke" and other "to be hot" in the sense of spicy food and such. So at first it seems to mean "if you get hot it's because you eat garlic" but it actually means "if you think we're referring to you it's because you have [hidden] reasons that provoke you into it".


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## Arrius

re *"quien se pica, ajos come"* (*Dr Quizá*): your original translation misled me into thinking that eating garlic was an antidote to being hot (rather like the English habit of drinking very hot tea during hot spells to cool down, acquired during the British Raj in India). _He who gets hot, must be (must have been) eating garlic_. would explain it better. But the metaphorical meaning you give corresponds to the English "*If the cap fits, wear it!"* i.e. _if you think these accusations I /we have been making apply to you, then you are probably right_. Both your Spanish and my English saying are similar in meanng to the explanation of the original Czech proverb in Post#1: "In situation, when someone does something bad, when noticed by others, starts cry how awfully is discriminated or insulted or other bad things say others does him" (I quote verbatim). 

*Sokol* in Post #11 correctly implies that we are dealing with two ideas on this thread that are somewhat similar, but certainly not identical. The saying about the glass house and other, synonymous, sayings contain the same idea as in Jesus' injunction to the angry crowd about to stone to death the woman "taken in adultery": *Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,* and another biblical saying about _taking the beam_ (Balke, viga, poutre) _out of one's own eye before removing the mote _(Rußflocke, mota de polvo, grain de poussière/escarbille)_ from one's neighbour's_ i.e. _the pot calling the kettle black. _


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## kusurija

Arrius said:


> re *"quien se pica, ajos come"* (*Dr Quizá*): your original translation misled me into thinking that eating garlic was an antidote to being hot (rather like the English habit of drinking very hot tea during hot spells to cool down, acquired during the British Raj in India). _He who gets hot, must be (must have been) eating garlic_. would explain it better. But the metaphorical meaning you give corresponds to the English "*If the cap fits, wear it!"* i.e. _if you think these accusations I /we have been making apply to you, then you are probably right_. Both your Spanish and my English saying are similar in meanng to the explanation of the original Czech proverb in Post#1: "In situation, when someone does something bad, when noticed by others, starts cry how awfully is discriminated or insulted or other bad things say others does him" (I quote verbatim).
> 
> *Sokol* in Post #11 correctly implies that we are dealing with two ideas on this thread that are somewhat similar, but certainly not identical. The saying about the glass house and other, synonymous, sayings contain the same idea as in Jesus' injunction to the angry crowd about to stone to death the woman "taken in adultery": *Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,* and another biblical saying about _taking the beam_ (Balke, viga, poutre) _out of one's own eye before removing the mote _(Rußflocke, mota de polvo, grain de poussière/escarbille)_ from one's neighbour's_ i.e. _the pot calling the kettle black. _


Well, let's take a political e.g.: How does Russia (i.e. Moscow/Kremlin) react to critical notes about her role in conflict in Georgia - South Osetia? Russia forced separatist actions to impossible level - so Georgia had to use force [neglecting other possible Georgia's reaction, let's follow mind] After it Russia occupited Georgia using unproportional force. When criticized, started claim loudly, how awfully Russians in S.Osetia were persecuted, what an aggresion of Georgians and so on. 
In Czech we only comment it (with irony): _Potrefená husa nejvíc kejhá_ (maybe also _Pro pravdu se člověk nejvíc zlobí_ for the truth man is most angry). In English i find most close _the pot calling the kettle black. _Better we comment it in Lithuanian: _Pats muša, pats rėkia!_


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## Goddaughter

kusurija said:


> Well, let's take a political e.g.: How does Russia (i.e. Moscow/Kremlin) react to critical notes about her role in conflict in Georgia - South Osetia? Russia forced separatist actions to impossible level - so Georgia had to use force [neglecting other possible Georgia's reaction, let's follow mind] After it Russia occupited Georgia using unproportional force. When criticized, started claim loudly, how awfully Russians in S.Osetia were persecuted, what an aggresion of Georgians and so on.
> In Czech we only comment it (with irony): _Potrefená husa nejvíc kejhá_ (maybe also _Pro pravdu se člověk nejvíc zlobí_ for the truth man is most angry). In English i find most close _the pot calling the kettle black. _Better we comment it in Lithuanian: _Pats muša, pats rėkia!_



Could you leave politics in peace, please, if you don't want to start arguing here. I have plenty to say on this subject and it's really hard to refrain from answering.

Speaking about the proverbs.
*People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones*
is word for word the same as Russian *Люди, живущие в стеклянных домах, не должны бросаться камнями.*
*If the cap fits, wear it* = *На воре шапка горит.* (also Russian).


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## kusurija

Goddaughter said:


> Could you leave politics in peace, please, if you don't want to start arguing here. I have plenty to say on this subject and it's really hard to refrain from answering.
> 
> Speaking about the proverbs.
> *People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones*
> is word for word the same as Russian *Люди, живущие в стеклянных домах, не должны бросаться камнями.*
> *If the cap fits, wear it* = *На воре шапка горит.* (also Russian).



Hi, Goddaughter!
I'm very, very thanksfull, that You didn't start arguing about politics. I only wanted introduce, that it isn't sayings of little scholars (bebebeee) or so. I could as example say something about North Korea or others... Certaily that that politics is not the theme of thread, that was only situation to describe, what is to react with that proverb on. 
   Кстати  "*На воре шапка горит."* - очень хорошая пословица!


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## Goddaughter

> I could as example say something about North Korea or others


But you didn't do it  The example is burning.. or, perhaps, I'm too sensitive. If so, I'm sorry.


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## Arrius

To help defuse the situation may I ask the probably irrelevant question: is *горит (gorit)* the Russian word for cap? I know only a few words of Russian but two similar words in Spanish,* gorra* and *gorro*, refer to types of cap, which would be a strange  coincidence.


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## Goddaughter

The Russian word for cap is *шапка*. But in a different situation it can be *кепка* as well. 
*Шапка* is usually warm and is worn in winter, and *кепка* - in summer. 
*горит* = *burns* (гореть = to burn)
"На воре шапка горит" can be literally translated as "On the thief the cap is burning", but it has exactly the same meaning as the English saying "If the cap fits, wear it".


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## Arrius

Presumably the thief has stolen the cap  and feels uncomfortable or self-concious about wearing it.  I can't think of any other explanation.  However, I still don't see how this is the same as _if the cap fits, wear it_.
As for my suggested etymological link: just one more example of how wrong one can can be in making such assumptions.  Thanks for answering my supplementary query.


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## Goddaughter

As I understand our Russian proverb, it's not about the remorse or conscience, it only means that the stolen thing will betray the thief somehow.
You made me look for the meaning of '_If the cap fits, wear it_'  This is what I found:


> *Idiom Definitions for 'If the cap fits, wear it'*
> This idiom means that if the description is correct, then it is describing the truth, often when someone is being criticised. ('If the shoe fits, wear it' is an alternative)


To my mind, it has a great similarity with the Russian one. But if it's incorrect, please, suggest your own explanation.

But, what is more, I remember my English teacher saying that these 2 proverbs mean the same, when I was a 1st-year student in the university and studied idioms.


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## Arrius

I now see how to interpret the Russian saying about the burning cap: the (metaphorical) flames are a clear signal pointing out the offender, whose guilt is as manifest as if his cap really were on fire. Identical to the alleged English equivalent it is not, but somewhat similar, if you think about it for long enough. The Latin legal term, "to be caught _in flagrante delicto"_ (in the act/ redhanded) also refers to burning and is likely to have been translated into Russian (or Old Bulgarian).


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## Dr. Quizá

Arrius said:


> re *"quien se pica, ajos come"* (*Dr Quizá*): your original translation misled me into thinking that eating garlic was an antidote to being hot (rather like the English habit of drinking very hot tea during hot spells to cool down, acquired during the British Raj in India). _He who gets hot, must be (must have been) eating garlic_. would explain it better.




It actually could also been understood that way in Spanish if you don't know the real meaning of this idiom.



> But the metaphorical meaning you give corresponds to the English "*If the cap fits, wear it!"* i.e. _if you think these accusations I /we have been making apply to you, then you are probably right_. Both your Spanish and my English saying are similar in meanng to the explanation of the original Czech proverb in Post#1: "In situation, when someone does something bad, when noticed by others, starts cry how awfully is discriminated or insulted or other bad things say others does him" (I quote verbatim).



As I said, I think "quien se pica, ajos come" fits better the French/Italian/Latin idiom than the Czech one. Its Latin form (actually Medieval, when classic Latin had been extiguished in the "real world") "excusatio non petita, acusatio manifesta" is relatively common in Spanish. I've seen it translated as "quien se excusa, se acusa", which is not bad, but not common. The Latin one can also be used to describe a situation wherein somebody uses a too detailed explanation, something that would make that person look suspicious.


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## kusurija

As Garin wrote, here is more possible proverbs with close meaning in English:


> 1) *A guilty conscience is a self-accuser.*
> 2) *He that has a great nose thinks everybody is speaking of it.*


or sense of proverb - with translation:
Garin wrote:





> _If you throw a stone at the geese, the one that feels it squeals most_...
> ... ...
> _*Když mezi husy k*__*ámen hodíš, ta křičí, která cítí.*_



To Goddaughter:
I'm so sorry for that burning example, I beg Your pardon, excuse me please.


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## Goddaughter

*Kusurija*, it's ok, really. There's no need to exuse, I'm sure that you didn't mean anything bad, blame it on my hot temper. )

*Arrius*, glad to hear that you see the similarity now.


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## Arrius

The English (and Americans) often quote from Shakespeare's "Hamlet", to convey the same idea as the thread title: *The lady doth protest too much, methinks.*  Gertrude, Hamlet's mother, says this during "_the play witiin a play", _carefully produced and directed by Prince Hamlet to reflect the fratricidal murder of his father the late King at the hands of his uncle, now newly married to Gertrude.  The impromptu play makes both the new king Claudius and Gertrude very nervous_, _when they realise that  its main characters are copies of themselves. The phrase "_the lady doth protest too much_"  indicates that you think a person's energetic denials of a proposition are meant to hide its embarrassing truth. 
The phrase is often misquoted with _methinks_ (it seems to me) at the beginning instead of the end, or entirely omitted. For obvious reasons, the saying was particularly popular during the premiership of Margaret Thatcher.


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## Goddaughter

Sorry, doth = does? 
And does the meaning change, if _methinks_ is at the beginning?


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## unigirl

Yes, "doth" is the old english form of "does". And no, the meaning doesn't change if "methinks" is placed at the beginning. I agree with Arrius that the phrase is often misquoted as "methinks the lady doth protest too much" - actually I've heard that version so often that I had forgotten that it was not the original quote.


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## Arrius

Goddaughter said:


> Sorry, doth = does?
> And does the meaning change, if _methinks_ is at the beginning?


 
The basic meaning does not change, but in English, apart from using the device of varied intonation, one sometimes stresses a particular part of a sentence by placing it at the beginning. _Methinks _at the beginning would give too much weight to the fact that the statement is a personal opinion, rather than something obvious to any observer, whereas _methinks_ at the end has as little force as _yer know._ In any case, it is better to say it the way the immortal bard intended.


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## Goddaughter

*Unigirl*, *Arrius*, thanks a lot. I couldn't imagine that it displaces a great deal of the weight to _methinks_. I've read 'Hamlet' in Russian only, now want to find it in original.


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## kusurija

Some new meanings see in http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2999562&p=15166226


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## 810senior

In Japanese :
目くそ鼻くそを笑う(mekuso hanakuso wo warau)
An eye mucus laughs at a nose dirt.

どんぐりの背比べ(donguri no se kurabe)
The comparison of each acorn.


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