# sport utility vehicle (SUV)



## Le Bélier

Do these actually exist in Eretz Israel?  I have no idea where to start with this one, so I'm going to hazard a guess: כְּלִי-רֶקֶב תּוֹעַלְתָּן סְפּוֹרְט.  Too literal?


----------



## Mjolnir

They do exist, but I think we just call them Jeeps.

By the way, it's רכב, not רקב


----------



## cfu507

I have a jeep and I've never heard the phrase כלי רכב תועלתן ספורט in Hebrew.

Also, we usualy say שימושי rather than תועלתן, especialy when we talk about vehicles.
אופנוע דו-שימושי or ג'יפ דו-שימושי- you can drive them on the road and off the road.


----------



## בעל-חלומות

I've also heard people call this kind of car רכב שטח.


----------



## Le Bélier

Mjolnir said:


> By the way, it's רכב, not רקב



Of course, you're right.  My Hebrew might be a little more intelligible if I'd stop making simple spelling errors.



cfu507 said:


> I have a jeep and I've never heard the phrase כלי רכב תועלתן ספורט in Hebrew.
> 
> Also, we usualy say שימושי rather than תועלתן, especialy when we talk about vehicles.
> אופנוע דו-שימושי or ג'יפ דו-שימושי- you can drive them on the road and off the road.



I think that the latter will work well in this case.  Thank you both.

As an aside,  I'm now curious about the general term _vehicle_ in Hebrew since כלי רכב seems to be unused, not to mention a little strange, even to my ears.  Yet I find this in Milon Morfix, Maksilon, and my own Ben-Yehuda dictionary.


----------



## Mjolnir

Le Bélier said:


> As an aside,  I'm now curious about the general term _vehicle_ in Hebrew since כלי רכב seems to be unused, not to mention a little strange, even to my ears.  Yet I find this in Milon Morfix, Maksilon, and my own Ben-Yehuda dictionary.



I don't think it's strange...
What makes you say it's not used?

Do you find it less used than the English "vehicle"?


----------



## cfu507

Le Bélier said:


> I think that the latter will work well in this case. Thank you both.


 
Why תועלתן is better here?



> As an aside, I'm now curious about the general term _vehicle_ in Hebrew since כלי רכב seems to be unused, not to mention a little strange, even to my ears. Yet I find this in Milon Morfix, Maksilon, and my own Ben-Yehuda dictionary.


 
כלי רכב, כלי שיט, כלי טיס - all of them are כלי תחבורה


----------



## Le Bélier

Mjolnir said:


> I don't think it's strange...
> What makes you say it's not used?
> 
> Do you find it less used than the English "vehicle"?



In this particular case, I inferred (perhaps incorrectly) that כלי רכב wasn't a common expression in Hebrew in general.  It's apparently not used for describing this particular type of vehicle, but as cfu507 indicates, it is used in other cases.

It's funny.  When I think about the English word _vehicle_, it doesn't seem that we say it often.  Usually in conversation, it's more specific words like _car, truck, SUV, motorcycle_, etc.



cfu507 said:


> Why תועלתן is better here?


 
It's not.  I meant the latter between אופנוע דו-שימושי or ג'יפ  דו-שימושי 
 (depending on which direction we're reading!).  My intent was to use ג'יפ דו-שימושי. 



cfu507 said:


> כלי רכב, כלי שיט, כלי טיס - all of them are כלי תחבורה



OK!  Thank you for the clarification.  Now it makes sense.


----------



## cfu507

Le Bélier said:


> It's funny. When I think about the English word _vehicle_, it doesn't seem that we say it often. Usually in conversation, it's more specific words like _car, truck, SUV, motorcycle_, etc.


 
Hi Le Bélier, now it is my turn to learn from you 

If you wanted to report about the trafic, how would you say in English: יש תנועה רבה של כלי רכב באילון דרום

Or if you wanted to write a sign like: אין כניסה לכלי רכב בשבת לשכונת מאה שערים

אילון דרום (ayalon darom) is a name of a road in Israel.
שכונת מאה שערים (Meah Shearim) is a neighborhood of Haredi Jews in Jerusalem.


----------



## Mjolnir

Le Bélier said:


> It's funny.  When I think about the English word _vehicle_, it doesn't seem that we say it often.  Usually in conversation, it's more specific words like _car, truck, SUV, motorcycle_, etc.



Exactly. Most of the time you'd say car, bike, etc., and not vehicle. It's the same in Hebrew.


----------



## eshcar

בעל-חלומות said:


> I've also heard people call this kind of car רכב שטח.


 
I agree with רכב שטח. That's the common name for it.

ג'יפ דו שימושי or אופנוע דו שימושי is not really used in everyday language - however, it *does* appear a lot in cars classifieds ads in the newspaper/internet.


----------



## Le Bélier

cfu507 said:


> Hi Le Bélier, now it is my turn to learn from you



OK! 



cfu507 said:


> If you wanted to report about the trafic, how would you say in English: יש תנועה רבה של כלי רכב באילון דרום



Typically, the reporters say _"There is a lot of traffic on Ayalon Darom."  _They don't distinguish whether it's cars, trucks, motorcyles, etc., so we wouldn't translate של כלי רכב.  Compare this to when there is an accident, and then they usually indicate what type of specific vehicles are involved.  For example, _"there is an accident on Ayalon Darom involving two cars and a motorcyle."_ would be typical.  But if the reporter didn't know the details for some reason, then he or she might say _"there is an accident involving two vehicles"_.  Still, the latter is much less common, at least in my area.



cfu507 said:


> Or if you wanted to write a sign like: אין כניסה לכלי רכב בשבת לשכונת מאה שערים



Wow!  You're thinking a lot about this!  Assuming that I understood the Hebrew correctly, the sign would probably say _"No thru traffic on Sunday in Meah Shearim"_.  Again, given that this is on a road where on usually drives, one would assume that it applies to all vehicles even though there is no use of the word _vehicle_.  



cfu507 said:


> אילון דרום (ayalon darom) is a name of a road in Israel.
> שכונת מאה שערים (Meah Shearim) is a neighborhood of Haredi Jews in Jerusalem.



Geography, too!  מצוין!


----------



## cfu507

Le Bélier said:


> Wow! You're thinking a lot about this!


 
Hi, they were just examples. Vehiclesis is really less common where you live, while כלי רכב is something that you would hear and see every day here.

Thank you Le Bélier!


----------



## cfu507

eshcar said:


> I agree with רכב שטח. That's the common name for it.


 

I don't think so. It depends on what you want to say:
There are more chances to find sentence no. 1 and 2 than no. 3: 
1. המלצות לטיול ג'יפים 
2. המלצות לטיול 4x4 
3. המלצות לטיול רכבי שטח​ 
Also, what would you say:
יש טיול ג'יפים בפסח לירדן, בא לך להצטרף?
יש טיול רכבי שטח לירדן, בא לך להצטרף?​ 
I say the first sentence.

Maybe my post is based on Availability heuristic


----------



## eshcar

cfu507 said:


> I don't think so. It depends on what you want to say:
> There are more chances to find sentence no. 1 and 2 than no. 3:
> 1. המלצות לטיול ג'יפים
> 2. המלצות לטיול 4x4
> 3. המלצות לטיול רכבי שטח​
> Also, what would you say:
> יש טיול ג'יפים בפסח לירדן, בא לך להצטרף?
> יש טיול רכבי שטח לירדן, בא לך להצטרף?​
> I say the first sentence.


 
ok. I stand corrected - ג'יפים and 4X4 are indeed more common in that context.
But mainly my point was the רכב דו שימושי was definitely not something you'd hear in everyday speech, and that it's primarily reserved for classified ads. So unless le belier is planning to put his suv for sale, it's not a term he should otherwise use.


----------



## Gadyc

eshcar said:


> I agree with רכב שטח. That's the common name for it.
> 
> ג'יפ דו שימושי or אופנוע דו שימושי is not really used in everyday language - however, it *does* appear a lot in cars classifieds ads in the newspaper/internet.


 
I agree with every word.

 רכב שטח  is the word.

BTW - formally it is כלי רכב but current term is רכב. 
Applicable also to כלי נשק (weapon) = נשק (coloquial)
Not applicable to כלי שיט, כלי טיס.


----------



## eshcar

Gadyc said:


> BTW - formally it is כלי רכב but current term is רכב.
> Applicable also to כלי נשק (weapon) = נשק (coloquial)​
> Not applicable to כלי שיט, כלי טיס.


 

hmmm, basically I agree, but don't you think that רכבים can sometimes mean exclusively cars? 
I think that if i heard these 2 sentece:​א. בתאונת הדרכים היו מעורבים 3 רכבים.
ב. בתאונת הדרכים היו מעורבים 3 כלי רכב.​ 
Then in the first senctence I would automatically assume that 3 cars were involed, whereas in the second one there could also be a motorcycle in there somewhere.​ 
But maybe that's just me... m​


----------



## Gadyc

eshcar said:


> hmmm, basically I agree, but don't you think that רכבים can sometimes mean exclusively cars?
> 
> 
> I think that if i heard these 2 sentece:​
> 
> א. בתאונת הדרכים היו מעורבים 3 רכבים.​
> 
> ב. בתאונת הדרכים היו מעורבים 3 כלי רכב.​
> 
> 
> Then in the first senctence I would automatically assume that 3 cars were involed, whereas in the second one there could also be a motorcycle in there somewhere.​
> 
> 
> But maybe that's just me... m​


 
No, רכב refers to all kinds of vehicles:


וְיָשֻׁבוּ הַמַּיִם עַל-מִצְרַיִם, עַל-רִכְבּוֹ וְעַל-פָּרָשָׁיו(שמות י"ד 26)
רכב אש
רק"ם = רכב קרבי משוריין


all these and others are not cars.


----------



## eshcar

Gadyc said:


> No, רכב refers to all kinds of vehicles:
> 
> 
> וְיָשֻׁבוּ הַמַּיִם עַל-מִצְרַיִם, עַל-רִכְבּוֹ וְעַל-פָּרָשָׁיו(שמות י"ד 26)
> רכב אש
> רק"ם = רכב קרבי משוריין
> 
> 
> all these and others are not cars.


 
point taken. 

though the quote from Exodus is not relevant to current usage, as you know.

Well, let's not argue anymore - this thread is long enough as is, no?


----------



## cfu507

eshcar said:


> But mainly my point was the רכב דו שימושי was definitely not something you'd hear in everyday speech, and that it's primarily reserved for classified ads.


 
That is correct


----------

