# Pronunciación - Schwa (supply)



## MrSchossow

Hola, que tal amigos foreros

En los últimos días he estado dando vueltas y vueltas a la vocal Schwa, y cuando creo que lo tengo! pfff, surge otra duda que termina enloqueciéndome.

Si bien, se que el sonido Schwa depende de las consonantes entre las que se encuentre, pero nose como una Schwa entre la s y la p de la palabra supply, suena como una u, mientras que en palabras como that, la schwa suena como una e.

La verdad es que me estoy enloqueciendo!!!, hasta me tiene desvelado hehehehehe.

Espero que me puedan ayudar un poco a darle forma a el sonidito este, que sin duda alguna, es supremamente importante.

Les agradezco de antemano!.

Un saludo para todos.


----------



## chamyto

Yo creo que es incluso difícil para los nativos . Una profesora de inglés me dijo que su sonido no es ni /a/ ni /e/ ni /o/ . Así que imagínate.
En lo que se refiere a "supply" , pensaba que se pronunciaba con "a central" ( como _funny  = _divertido)


----------



## MrSchossow

Si, he visto que puede sonar como cualquiera de todas las vocales.
Pero nose, supongo yo que deben haber como unas "reglas". Que si esta entre una consonante tal y otra, suena como e, que si esta entre esta y esta suena como a. 
Esperemos que si, porque sino... me va a hacer la vida de cuadritos xD

Un saludo!


----------



## Justham

Cuando ocurre es siempre en las vocales átonas en cualquier posición

La schwa no tiene distintos pronunciaciones; es siempre un sonido anodino y ordinario, una vocal tragada, una imprecisión o flojera (pero no incorrección) de pronunciación.

Ten los órganos de articulación (labios, lengua, paladar, mandibula, etc.) relajados por completo, y dejar pasar un poco de aire.

a*bout*-posición inicial
*al*mond-posición final
*dic*tion*ary*, *tel*ephone-posición media


----------



## Bandama

En realidad, "supply" no se pronuncia con una "u" en la primera sílaba, sino, justamente, con una "schwa". "That" no tiene una schwa en su pronunciación fuerte, sino una "ae" (no sé cómo escribir otros símbolos que los de mi teclado). 

Para pronunciarla, tienes que tener en cuenta el otro nombre por el que se conoce a la schwa: "semi-vowel" (semi vocal). Es decir, se trata de un sonido vocálico apenas emitido que siempre cae en las sílabas no acentuadas. 

Un truco puede ser empezar por no pronunciar en absoluto las vocales de las sílabas no acentuadas, concentrándote en pronunciar claramente la sílaba acentuada, pero poniendo atención a que las consonantes de las sílabas no acentuadas queden también claras:

Supply =["s"-*plaI*]]

performance = ["p"-*fo:*-"mns"]

banana = ["b"-*na:*-"n"]

Después, añádele un ligerísmo sonido corto con la boca en la posición de la [ae] inglesa de "man", bad", "can", etc. Esto te ayudará en palabras que empiezan con una schwa, como "about".

Prueba y dinos qué tal te va.

Saludos.


----------



## inib

Bandama said:


> Un truco puede ser empezar por no pronunciar en absoluto las vocales de las sílabas no acentuadas, concentrándote en pronunciar claramente la sílaba acentuada, pero poniendo atención a que las consonantes de las sílabas no acentuadas queden también claras:
> 
> Supply =["s"-*plaI*]]
> 
> performance = ["p"-*fo:*-"mns"]
> 
> banana = ["b"-*na:*-"n"]
> 
> Después, añádele un ligerísmo sonido corto con la boca en la posición de la [ae] inglesa de "man", bad", "can", etc. Esto te ayudará en palabras que empiezan con una schwa, como "about".
> 
> Prueba y dinos qué tal te va.
> 
> Saludos.


 
Yo también he recomendado ese truco a mis alumnos ¡y funciona!
No intentes pronunciar la schwa, intenta no pronunciarla y acertarás. (Con la excepción de la schwa inicial, como se ha dicho).


----------



## MrSchossow

Woww...

Me queda mas que claro, muchisimas gracias por las respuestas!!


----------



## Filimer

inib said:


> No intentes pronunciar la schwa, intenta no pronunciarla y acertarás. (Con la excepción de la schwa inicial, como se ha dicho).


Y la schwa final, como en banana /b-'næn-/.

Mi experiencia es que los hispanohablantes pronuncian las schwas como cualquier vocal y a nadie le importa mucho. Así, si alguien dice /banána/ o /benáne/ se entiende perfectamente. En inglés las palabras gorilla y guerrilla son homófonas /gəˈrɪlə/ pero muchos hispanohablantes las diferencian /goríla/, /geríla/. El error no es demasiado grave (para mi gusto).


----------



## MrSchossow

Hola, que tal...

En cuanto me encontraba practicando el sonido de la Schwa (y escuchando algunas pronunciaciones) note algo que me confundió, bastante realmente.

Mi pregunta es, ¿tiene la schwa el mismo sonido en todas las palabras que la contienen? es decir, la schwa de supply, suena igual que a la de the, a, apartment, institution, etc...

He notado que es un sonido bastante corto, que pareciera no estar ahi en muchas ocasiones.

Muchas gracias de antemano!

Saludos.


----------



## duvija

Es un sonido central, que varía ligeramente según el entorno fonético. Buscá un triángulo de vocales en inglés, y vas a ver por qué es central. Sale como por un tubo recto, sin nada que lo pare, pero a veces nos preparamos para el sonido siguiente o seguimos con la boca que se formó en el sonido anterior.


----------



## Tazzler

Pronuncia la "a" y entonces levanta la lengua un poco retrayéndola un poco también.


----------



## inib

MrSchossow,
I see you have repeated the question you asked before...http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2110311
I think that's perfectly OK, if you still need more help. Listen to Duvija, because she's a real expert, and I am not, but as a native, I would say that schwa always sounds the same. That is the whole point of transcribing words spelt with different vowels into phonetic symbols which demonstrate that the sounds are the same. I recommend you to stick with that idea unless someone tells us there are different types of schwa.


----------



## inib

Hi again,
I've just taken more notice of the examples that you've given, and have remembered that some dictionaries show schwa with a superscript of another vowel, which indicates that some local pronunciations might make the schwa tend a little more towards that particular vowel. If you are referring to the second syllable of "ins*ti*tution", I personally pronounce it with "i", but if you search the word in the WR English-Spanish dictionary, you will see that there are two possible pronunciations, one with "i" and one with schwa. Am I getting any closer to what you want to know? I hope so.
Regards.


----------



## stcrocefirenze

I am struggling with such things frequently;
I gather the point (for us, spaniards) has more to do with the duration than with the vowel sound itself that we might consider  more close to the schwa; my point is, do it your best, but when it comes to the schwa, make it short!
trick: try to pronunce an spanish "E", moving your mouth kind you were about to prononce an spanish "A", and at the same time, keep this sound as short as you can!


----------



## MrSchossow

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your answers! it's really helping me so much!


----------



## elianecanspeak

Rather than "supply' (where the first syllable is unstressed and would be pronounced as schwa anyway), I would use "supple"  as an example, since the first, stressed syllable sounds like a schwa.

Check out this site [*http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php*] to listen to the *pronunciation *of words (or sentences) that you type in.  You can choose from a variety of native English speakers: Four from the US, two from the UK, and one from India. 

PS - For those interested, it also generates pronunciation for French, German, Italian, and Spanish.


----------



## MrSchossow

Thanks elianecanspeak, very useful webpage! 

But, all people had say me that schwa sounds equal everywhere (all words) but i don't think so when i listen to words ending in le and tion, such as table, able, people, explanation, and so on.

Sounds very similar to a spanish O, and that's getting me confused.

Maybe, the reason is what duvija has said here, but i'm not sure!... the schwa must be a very very short sound to make those words sound like a spanish O.

Thanks everybody for your help!


----------



## duvija

MrSchossow said:


> Thanks elianecanspeak, very useful webpage!
> 
> But, all people had say me that schwa sounds equal everywhere (all words) but i don't think so when i listen to words ending in le and tion, such as table, able, people, explanation, and so on.
> 
> Sounds very similar to a spanish O, and that's getting me confused.
> 
> Maybe, the reason is what duvija has said here, but i'm not sure!... the schwa must be a very very short sound to make those words sound like a spanish O.
> 
> Thanks everybody for your help!


 

Let me add a freaky detail. That shwa sound, in words like 'fuck' (clearly, the best example  I could find) sounds like [o] to Méxicans, Central Americans, and the north of South America. For us, it sounds like [a]. Meaning, my Guatemalan friends say 'fok' and we say 'fak'. Talk about vowel qualities in perception and production!  (careful, this doesn't work 100% of the times. I'm sure many Spanish speakers in Mexico will say 'I don't hear it as an [o] ! That's ok.)


----------



## elianecanspeak

I think of the schwa as being the sound made the mouth, tongue, throat, and jaw are completely relaxed and the mouth is hanging slightly open.  Completely neutral.


----------



## mirx

duvija said:


> I'm sure that _*the majority of*_ Spanish speakers in Mexico will say 'I don't hear it as an [o] ! That's ok.)


Regarding the sound in "fuck", this varies completely from accent to accent. A Scot saying fuck sounds totally different to an AmE speaker.


----------



## cyberpedant

There are two sounds in English that are very similar: /ə/ and /ʌ/. the schwa /ə/ is unaccented and the /ʌ/ is accented.

You'll find an excellent pronunciation guide (with diagrams and sound samples) here:
http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/#
(You must have *Flash 7 * or higher plug-in to use this web site.)


----------



## duvija

mirx said:


> Regarding the sound in "fuck", this varies completely from accent to accent. An Scot saying fuck sound totally different to an AmE speaker.


 

Right, plus it was my mistake. The sound in 'fuck' is not a schwa, but a stressed schwa, spelled differently. 
/ʌ/ (as cyberpedant indicated).


----------



## Justham

duvija said:


> Let me add a freaky detail. That shwa sound, in words like 'fuck' (clearly, the best example  I could find) sounds like [o] to Méxicans, Central Americans, and the north of South America. For us, it sounds like [a]. Meaning, *my Guatemalan friends say 'fok' and we say 'fak'*. Talk about vowel qualities in perception and production! (careful, this doesn't work 100% of the times. I'm sure many Spanish speakers in Mexico will say 'I don't hear it as an [o] ! That's ok.)


 
Many of us don't say it at all!


----------



## inib

Most of my Spanish pupils hear my (British) ʌ as "a", and I bore them stiff comparing _cup_ and _cap_, _but_ and _bat_, where there's an *enormous* difference. After an hour or so, they finally pretend to hear a difference and the odd one is able to reproduce it approximately. But only during that lesson. The next day they are saying _cap_ and _cap_ again! 
As to schwa, if it's a word they've never heard or seen before, they seem to appreciate it in varied ways, but if they've seen the word spelt, the schwa in_ father_ will always sound more like an "e" to them and the one in _ago_ is an "a" "_como una montaña"_!


----------



## mirx

inib said:


> Most of my Spanish pupils hear my (British) ʌ as "a", and I bore them stiff comparing _cup_ and _cap_, _but_ and _bat_, where there's an *enormous* difference. After an hour or so, they finally pretend to hear a difference and the odd one is able to reproduce it approximately. But only during that lesson. The next day they are saying _cap_ and _cap_ again!
> As to schwa, if it's a word they've never heard or seen before, they seem to appreciate it in varied ways, but if they've seen the word spelt, the schwa in_ father_ will always sound more like an "e" to them and the one in _ago_ is an "a" "_como una montaña"_!


I have no idea how to pronounce the word schwa itself. If someone had asked me 4 years ago I would confidently have said that it was a German or Dutch word.


----------



## MrSchossow

I've tried to make this sound as short as i can (nearly to dissapear it) and seem to work, the sound UH, very very fast... so, in words like people ( that sound like an O for me ) sound finally like a schwa!, it occurs very fast! as if p and l were mixed, but there is a sound between them.

I've found a video that could help, search it in youtube as Straight Up English - Teaching Schwa (I'm not sure if i can put it here)

(Sorry for dorky mistakes) hehe


----------



## inib

mirx said:


> I have no idea how to pronounce the word schwa itself. If someone had asked me 4 years ago I would confidently have said that it was a German or Dutch word.


 True. And what do you know now? Where does it come from? I've no idea.


----------



## mirx

inib said:


> True. And what do you know now? Where does it come from? I've no idea.


According to Wikipedia, this:


> The word _schwa_ is from the Hebrew word shva (שְׁוָא _shewa’_, pronounced [ʃəˈwa], modern _shva_ [ʃva]), which designates the Hebrew niqqud vowel sign shva "ְ" that in modern Hebrew indicates either the phoneme /e/ or the complete absence of a vowel. Also the Hebrew shva is sometimes represented by the upside-down e symbol for schwa, a misleading transliteration, since the schwa vowel is not representative of modern Hebrew pronunciation of shva and is not characteristic of earlier pronunciations either (see Tiberian vocalization → Mobile Shwa). The term was introduced into European linguistics by Jacob Grimm in the early 19th century,[_citation needed_] so the spelling _sch_ is German in origin. It was first used in English texts between 1890–1895.[3][4]



There seems to be some German background after all.


----------



## inib

MrSchossow said:


> I've tried to make this sound as short as i can (nearly to dissapear it) and seem to work, the sound UH, very very fast... so, in words like people ( that sound like an O for me ) sound finally like a schwa!, it occurs very fast! as if p and l were mixed, but there is a sound between them.
> 
> I've found a video that could help, search it in youtube as Straight Up English - Teaching Schwa (I'm not sure if i can put it here)
> 
> (Sorry for dorky mistakes) hehe


MrSchossow, what I'm about to say is not official (I may even deny having said it and erase the post!) but with the particular example you mention - "people", and in general, words ending in "le" I've had the following experience...
With young kids (5-7 years)(Spanish) I've always found that their "ear" is more open to new sounds, and they catch on to them reasonably well by just listening. But if they see a word in writing, English spelling confuses them. I obviously can't use phonetic symbols with this age group so I've experimented with "pseudo-phonetics". Out of _pípal, pípol, pípel and pípul_, I've found that the last "transcription" gives by far the best results. The same for apple = _ápul_, but I do have to insist that the "u" is very short, and that the stress is on the first syllable.
However I would never suggest this method for "_father_" or "_ago_". I suspect this might have something to do with the "_"l" oscura_" in English, or maybe *you *are right, and we don't always pronounce and hear _schwa_ in the same way.


----------



## inib

mirx said:


> According to Wikipedia, this:
> 
> 
> There seems to be some German background after all.


 Thanks, Mirx. I learn so much every day from all of you. If only I could remember a tenth of it!


----------



## MrSchossow

I've tried to pronounce it without schwa, and sound like an U. another people pronounce it like an O.

I'm going to listen to a lot of words to train my ears... then, i'll tell you the results.

Thanks everybody for all the help in this post!


----------

