# Couche



## Maroseika

In Russian we have an expression "Сорвать куш" meaning *décrocher la timbale, to snatch a large sum.*
Russian etymologists derivate this word *куш ([kush] = somme rondelette, large sum)* from the French *couche.*
However I don't see in my French dictionaries any significance of *couche* that could originate such significance.

*Maybe this word - couche - has or had some other meaning, colloquial or slang?*


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## themaster

That might be an obsolete word meaning. It's not used in French anymore. All I can say is I never read/heard this word anywhere to say "somme rondelette".


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## Maroseika

themaster said:


> that might be an obsolete word meaning it's not used in french anymore.All i can say is i never read/heard this word anywhere to say "somme rondelette"


May be then something like *le gros lot, le butin*?


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## niko

Hi Maroseika,

Well, I've been searching a bit, and I didn't find anything either, relating "couche" to money.
Now we could try to make some guesses but for that, I suppose it would be better of you could give the meaning of _sorvat'_.


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## Maroseika

niko said:


> Hi Maroseika,
> 
> Well, I've been searching a bit, and I didn't find anything either, relating "couche" to money.
> Now we could try to make some guesses but for that, I suppose it would be better of you could give the meaning of _sorvat'_.


Sorvat' means in this case "to break" like in the idiom "*to break the bank*", i.e. to win too much in the casino, or wider and figuratevely - to earn much money at once.
So *couche* may be some cards term, or refer to the roulette wheel or something like that.
For example, couche might mean a layer or stack of the cards in some game (something like canasta). The winner of each turn gets all the cards in the stack. 
Is it possible that couche meant a stack of the cards?


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## Whodunit

Well, this page says the same. It should have to do with _coucher_, but I'm not sure either how to get there:



> "ставка, выигрыш" (Мельников), из франц. соuсhе -- то же; также _куш_ -- межд. "смирно! лежать!" (собаке), охотничий язык (Даль). Из франц. соuсhе от соuсhеr "класть, ложиться", лат. соllосārе.


"betting, profits" (according to Melnikov), from French _couche_, but also _куш_: interjection "stand still! lay down!" (speaking to a dog), hunting language (from afar?). From French _couche_ from _coucher_ "to hide, to lie down", from Latin _collocāre_.

Corrections regarding the translation are most welcome.


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## niko

Maroseika said:


> Sorvat' means in this case "to break" like in the idiom "*to break the bank*", i.e. to win too much in the casino, or wider and figuratevely - to earn much money at once.
> So *couche* may be some cards term, or refer to the roulette wheel or something like that.
> For example, couche might mean a layer or stack of the cards in some game (something like canasta). The winner of each turn gets all the cards in the stack.
> Is it possible that couche meant a stack of the cards?



When a player gives up, in a card game, we say "il se couche". But there's no relation with the money you would gain ;
I was wondering wether it could be related to the bed, that is to say, by subtile distortions, something like "win the girl" or something. But it's really just a guess, for I never heard any expression of that kind in French so far.


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## Maroseika

Whodunit said:


> (according to Melnikov),


That's very interesting, I've never heard of this source. Do you have any link to this dictionary of Mel'nikov?


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## Maroseika

niko said:


> When a player gives up, in a card game, we say "il se couche". But there's no relation with the money you would gain ;
> I was wondering wether it could be related to the bed, that is to say, by subtile distortions, something like "win the girl" or something. But it's really just a guess, for I never heard any expression of that kind in French so far.


So you can't call *la* *couche* a stack of cards? 
At least according to my dictionary couche may mean a layer of something: couche limite, intermédiaire, couche d'oxyde, etc.


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## Arrius

How about _couche _in the meaining of a gold or silver-bearing vein or stratum in a mine where one would "strike it rich".
I toyed with the idea of a corruption of English _cash _from Italian cassa(box) , or French and English _cache (_from Fr. _cacher, to hide),_ a treasure trove of hidden loot, but these seem improbable,


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## Whodunit

Maroseika said:


> That's very interesting, I've never heard of this source. Do you have any link to this dictionary of Mel'nikov?


 
To be honest, I wondered about that myself, too. I didn't know Melnikov was a publisher of Russian etymological things, but this is what I found on a quick search. Is he well-known among Russian linguists?


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## Maroseika

Whodunit said:


> To be honest, I wondered about that myself, too. I didn't know Melnikov was a publisher of Russian etymological things, but this is what I found on a quick search. Is he well-known among Russian linguists?


To my shame I've never heard of him. Your link says him to be an author of rather specific lunguistic books, however I don't know any sistematic etymological dictionary other than Vasmer's and Chernykh's.


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## Maroseika

Arrius said:


> How about _couche _in the meaining of a gold or silver-bearing vein or stratum in a mine where one would "strike it rich".
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting idea!
> 
> 
> 
> I toyed with the idea of a corruption of English _cash _from Italian cassa(box) , or French and English _cache (_from Fr. _cacher, to hide),_ a treasure trove of hidden loot, but these seem improbable,[/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to my sources *cash* originates directly from Prov. caissa - money box (while caissa itself really originates from the box).
> Further this word really descends to "hold, hide" (as well as *case)*.
Click to expand...


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## Montaigne

Nicot dans son Trésor de la langue française (1606) donne une acception de "couche" ; l'argent qui est misé par un joueur ou de dés ou de cartes et sur lequel l'autre joueur doit enchérir ou quitter.(J'ai transcris en français contemporain)
Je crois que cela est une bonne piste.


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## JeanDeSponde

Une autre possibilité viendrait de _couche = matelas_, matelas dans lequel l'argent (or, pièces, etc.) était couramment caché, dans les campagnes. On ouvre la couche pour trouver le magot (pile of money).


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## Montaigne

Sorry for being so stubborn, BUT:

La première édition du Diictionnaire de l'Académie Française (1694) indique entre autres sens : "couche" ce que l'on met (mise) sur une carte (ex : "La première coouche doi têtre au moins d'une pistole").

88 years after Nicot, almost the same definition.


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