# It would have been better if



## Viral

Not sure if this goes here, but I've got a really important question to ask. How do I form the conditional tense? I'll show you what I am trying to translate, and I'd like an answer that tells me how to translate it, but please do not give me the actual translation. 

It would have been better if I had more friends with me.


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## Viral

This is my attempt: 

*Sería más buena si me tenía más amigos.*


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## Lerma

Viral said:


> This is my attempt:
> 
> *Sería más buena si me tenía más amigos.*


 
Esto no tiene sentido,aunque con buena voluntad se entiende un poco. Si quieres te puedo dar la traducción pero, al parecer prefieres que no se traduzca


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## Viral

I don't really want a translation of it unless I get completely stuck, but if you could show me how to translate it, that would be great ^_^ .


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## Lerma

I don't know if in England the conditional is explained the same way as it is to foreign students. I can only say this is called *third conditional.* In this case the condition is impossible to be fulfilled as time has gone by and now it's impossible to go back in the time. This full expression needs (supposing the English expression fits the correct idea) a past subjunctive and a past conditional (Spanish, of course). Try to translate it again. Good luck!


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## Viral

Thanks for that explanation, but I'm not sure what I have to change into past subjunctive and past conditional. Do you mind further explaining this?

Muchas gracias,
Viral.


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## Lerma

You have got the answer. It's exactly the same as in English (no special requirements). Cheer up!


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## Requiems

Hmm...

Well "It would have been better if I had more friends with me" doesn't make sense. 

If this is an an event in the past then it would be "if I had had more friends with me", or more appropriately "I would have rather had more friends with me" or possibly something else, depending on the context.


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## Lerma

I understand the sentence means that definitely the speaker doesn't have enough friends. It isnt a question of this person being nearly alone in the past. Even today, he/she doesn't have a lot of friends. Otherwise you would be right.


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## Requiems

Well, 
"It would HAVE BEEN better if I had more friends with me" doesn't imply anything about the present. 

If it were "It would be better if had more friends" that would mean he doesn't feel as though he has enough friends currently.


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## Viral

Now I'm confused XD . 

What I have said doesn't imply anything to do with the present, only the past. I am talking about work experience, saying that it would have been better if I had more friends with me, which to me, makes perfect sense. 

If it doesn't make sense, as Lerma stated can someone please tell me how to fix it, but in depth  .


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## Lerma

I stronly disagree but I never polemize more than it is due with a native English speaker who doesn't agree with me on English grammatical or lexical topics.


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## Requiems

Well it is my fault for overly engaging the english portion of the post. It seems that Viral is more interested in the Spanish translation of: 
"The experience would have been better if more friends had accompanied me"

And if you don't want a Spanish translation, then I can't be of help. I can't "show [you] how to translate it".


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## Viral

http://www.elearnspanishlanguage.com/grammar/verbs/pluperfectsubjunctive.html

I've found that website for the pluperfect subjunctive as Lerma told me that I need the subjunctive. If someone can help me a bit more, it would be great.


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## Lerma

Viral said:


> Now I'm confused XD .
> 
> What I have said doesn't imply anything to do with the present, only the past. I am talking about work experience, saying that it would have been better if I had more friends with me, which to me, makes perfect sense.
> 
> If it doesn't make sense, as Lerma stated can someone please tell me how to fix it, but in depth  .


 
The problem lies in the past but if you don't mean that even today the speaker doesn't have enough friends you shoud have said:* If I had had more friends with me, it would have been better* In Spanish:* Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría/hubiera sido mejor*

*If I had more friends with me, it would have been better. Si** tuviera más amigos habria/hubiera sido mejor.* (no hope of having more friends with me)

I suggest a different version *If I had more friend with me, it would be better* (second conditional) In this case the condition is possible but improbable.


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## Requiems

Lerma said:


> The problem lies in the past but if you don't mean that even today the speaker doesn't have enough friends you shoud have said:* If I had had more friends with me, it would have been better* In Spanish:* Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría/hubiera sido mejor*
> 
> *If I had more friends with me, it would have been better. Si** tuviera más amigos conmigo habría/hubiera sido mejor.* (no hope of having more friends with me)
> 
> I suggest a different version *If I had more friend with me, it would be better* (second conditionnal) In this case the condition is possible but improbable.



I completely agree with this, and I think Viral was looking for* Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría/hubiera sido mejor*, the SUBJUNCTIVE, not the conditional.


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## Viral

Ahhh, now I understand what you mean when you say that I didn't make sense. What I was saying was a bit colloquial, so it makes sense to me, and to any other native English person. But yes, there needs to be two 'had's in the sentence so *If I had had more friends with me, it would have been better* does make sense.

So, this is what I will use:
*Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría/hubiera sido mejor* 

Just one more thing, can you please show me how you worked that out, so I am able to translate a similar sentence in the future.


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## Requiems

Viral said:


> What I was saying was a bit colloquial, so it makes sense to me, and to any other native English person.



As a native English speaker, yes I understood what you meant, but it was technically grammatically incorrect for what you were trying to say. That would be fine, except the grammar in this case is very important when translating to Spanish.


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## Viral

Yes, I do understand that, which is exactly why I went with the 'had had more friends' translation. I'd just like to know how Lerma translated that because it looks completely foreign to me, as in, I don't understand the translation at all.

Otra vez, muchas gracias,
Viral.


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## Requiems

Oh OK, I'm sorry. I didn't know how much of a background in Spanish you had. 
Si tuviera más amigos conmigo habría sido mejor.

Si= if
tuviera= Imperfect subjunctive of tener (to have)
más = more
amigos = friends
conmigo= with me
habría sido = Pluscuamperfect of ser (to be)
mejor = better


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## Lerma

*Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría sido mejor*
*Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado hubiera sido mejor*

I must say the second version (the subjuntive one) is more widey used (at least in Spain). Both are correct. I think finally we reached an agreement. It was a pleasure to be in touch with you both. Regards. Lerma


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## Viral

Thanks a lot both Requiems and Lerma. 

Requiem, what is the difference between your translation, and Lerma's translation?


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## Viral

Also, Lerma, what is the difference between habría and hubiera?

I'm really sorry for all the questions, but this is helping me out a lot, so thanks  .


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## Requiems

Viral said:


> Thanks a lot both Requiems and Lerma.
> 
> Requiem, what is the difference between your translation, and Lerma's translation?



There is no difference. Lerma put the / in to indicate the optionality of using either habría or hubiera; both are correct. Lerma can try to explain the difference if he cares, I'm not sure I could articulate it properly. 

Pleasure conversing with you both.


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## Viral

One last question  , can someone please tell me what the following parts of the above sentences mean:

hubiera
mi lado


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## Chessia

better=mejor, not better as a good person but as an adverb.


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## Chessia

mi lado=by my side, next to me, with me


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## Lerma

Requiems said:


> Oh OK, I'm sorry. I didn't know how much of a background in Spanish you had.
> Si tuviera más amigos conmigo habría sido mejor.
> 
> Si= if
> tuviera= Imperfect subjunctive of tener (to have)
> más = more
> amigos = friends
> conmigo= with me
> habría sido = *Past* *Conditional* of ser (to be)
> mejor = better


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## Lerma

Requiems said:


> There is no difference. Lerma put the / in to indicate the optionality of using either habría or hubiera; both are correct. Lerma can try to explain the difference if he cares, I'm not sure I could articulate it properly.
> 
> Pleasure conversing with you both.


 
_*Hubiera*_ is more widely used, although when I was a child (many years ago) I was taught to say *habría* in this context*.* Anyway both are correct.


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## cyberfenix

Hi, Viral.

With all due respect, in a third conditional sentence the main clause is conditional perfect and the if clause is past perfect, e.g.: 

I would have bought the suit if I had had enough money.

Your sentence: "It would have been better if I had more friends with me", is a mixed conditional sentence, and I would translate it as "Habría sido mejor si tuviera más amigos". "Hubiera sido" is very common but incorrect.

The "right" way to express this idea would be: "Habría sido mejor si hubiera tenido más amigos". I personally would not translate "with me".

Hope this will help.


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## Requiems

You should read the entire thread. 

If you did you would see that the context was:

"The experience would have been better If I had had more friends with me"

By this, Viral means he wished that more of his friends (from before the experience) had accompanied him. 

If you leave off the "with me" the meaning changes:"The experience would have been better If I had had more friends" does not mean the same thing. That sentences means essentially that he didn't make as many friends or that having more friends *before* the experience would have enhanced the experience.


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## cyberfenix

My dear Requiems,
I didn´t mean to be rude, hope you didn't either.
My concern was the wrong translation "hubiera sido" instead of "habría sido", just to help Viral out.
You are absolutely right, having read the entire thread, as you suggested that I should, I would translate "with me" as "de mi lado".
That's why I wrote: the "right" translation would be...
I'm not competing here, just helping out.


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## mhp

cyberfenix said:


> "Habría sido mejor si tuviera más amigos". "Hubiera sido" is very common but incorrect.



No es un error. Veáse el apardado 1.1.2.b.


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## Forero

*To be translated to Spanish*: "It would have been better if I had more friends with me."

The first step in translation is to understand what the sentence means.  "I had more friends" could mean that I used to have more friends, but here it means something like "if things were different and I had more friends".  In other words, we are not talking about the real past or present but about an imaginary time with more friends than in real time.  This imaginary time idea is expressed in English with something that looks like a past tense in the "if" part and usually a "would" in the other part.  In Spanish, the same idea takes a verb form in _-ra_ or _-se_ (your choice of endings, same meaning) in the _si_ ("if") part and usually a _-ría_ verb (conditional) in the other part.

That having been said, we can explain the rest of the idea as if the imaginary world is here with us: "It is better since I have more friends with me."  Since I don't have "more" friends with me, this present tense sentence becomes "It would be better if I had more friends with me."

What is different between the original sentence and this last incarnation of it is that the original obviously refers not to friends that I have (or don't have enough of) now but to friends, real or imagined, in the past.  In regular past tense, it would be "It was better since I had more friends with me", and to express that this is imaginary we say "It would have been better if I had had more friends with me."

This last version is not exactly the original sentence, but we have ascertained that this is what was meant.

The _would_ part needs a _-ría_ verb for "would have".   This _have_ is not the _have_ that refers to having something, but the _have_ that refers to having done something or having been something.  In other words, it's not a form of _tener_ (to have and to hold) that we want but a form of _haber_.

So, for the _would_ part, we need the verb _haber_ with a _ría_ (conditional) ending: _habría_.  This can be modified to show person and number, for example _habríamos_ for "we would have", but the simple form _habría_ serves for "it would have".  "Been" is _sido_.  There are other ways to say "been", but in the sense of "it" being better _sido_ is the best choice.  "Better" is _mejor_ in Spanish, whether we are talking about how good something is or how well something is done.

For the _si_ (if) part, we have two _had_s.  The first is the auxiliary verb (= _haber_) as can be demonstrated by the fact that we can replace the second _had _with another verb, such as _kept_, but the first _had_ remains and expresses having done something, not having something.  _Haber_ + _-ra_ = _hubiera_.  This can be modified to show person and number, for example _hubiéramos_ for first person plural, but we already have the form for "I" (first person singular).  The second _had_ is the past participle of the _have_ that refers to having something (more friends), so we take _tenido_, past participle of _tener_.  "With me" could be _conmigo_, but _a mi lado_ fits the bill.  It means "at my side" or "on my side".

*Result:* _Habría sido mejor si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado.

_I have already mentioned the alternative _hubiese_ for _hubiera_, but it is also possible to replace _habría_ with _hubiera_ (and less commonly _hubiese_) without changing the meaning.  This is not entirely logical, but it is good Spanish.  To a lesser extent _quisiera_ can be used for _querría_ (would, would like to), _debiera_ for _debería_ (should, ought to), and _pudiera_ for _podría_ (could, would be able to).


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## Viral

Thanks everyone for your help, especially Forero as I think I now understand it.

Habría - It would have
sido - been
mejor - better
si - if
hubiera/hubiese - I had
tenido - had
más amigos - more friends
a mi lado / conmigo - with me


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## thebride77

Viral, keep in mind you have to follow a sequence of tenses - you start off with the conditional so the latter part of the sentence would fall to the imperfect subjunctive - which is "hubiera."  (Because this is a contrary-to-fact statement in which you are expressing a hypothetical situational)  

*Habria* sido mejor *si hubiera tenido* mas amigas a mi lado.


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## Na'ilah

So, habría and hubiera are interchangeable in this sentence?  There is no difference in the meaning?

*If I had had more friends with me, it would have been better

**Si hubiera tenido más amigos a mi lado habría/hubiera sido mejor*.


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## alex20002

"It would have been better if I had more friends with me."
"It would have been better if we won..."
"It would have been better if I used. 

A typical standard EFL course book would have you believe that the past perfect is missing from these grammatically 'incorrect' sentences. However, the sentences were all uttered by native speakers, the third one by Hilary Clinton no less. So what is going on here ? In my experience, using the past perfect in spoken English tends to feel awkward or too formal at times and is avoided in casual conversation but for some reason EFL textbooks have not picked up on it.


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## levmac

Both Spanish and English natives make mistakes with these structures; they are complex.

In English, a big problem is that the difference between the past and the past perfect is often very subtle (I had vs I'd had, etc) so it doesn't sound as bad, say, as saying "I seen".

However, just because a lot of us (me included) break this rule, doesn't make it right. A lot of people I know also say "If I would have known", and I often hear "If I had've known" but I would never teach those to a student.


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