# rahavirtana ajateltuna



## Gavril

Moippa,

I'm not sure exactly how to translate the highlighted phrase below:



> Näin yhtiöiden välinen yhteistyösopimus muuttuu jatkossa Nokialle rahavirtana ajateltuna tappiolliseksi.



"Thus, the cooperation agreement between the companies, [considered as cash flow?], will become a loss to Nokia."

Is the phase _rahavirtana ajateltu _modifying _yhteistyösopimus_, or does it fit elsewhere in the sentence structure?

Kiitoksia paljon


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## Hakro

"Considered as cash flow" is an exact translation. I just can't understand why the writer hasn't said simply _taloudellisesti_.

I think that the idea is that the result of the cooperation agreement will be an economical loss to Nokia but there may be other advantages.


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## Määränpää

The preceding sentence is 





> Nokian maksamat rojaltimaksut Microsoftille Windows Phone –käyttöjärjestelmästä ylittävät jatkossa Microsoftin tukimaksut Nokialle.


 The idea is that Nokia has been paying _x_ to Microsoft and Microsoft has been paying _y_ to Nokia.

So far _x _has been a smaller number than _y_, but soon _x _will be more than _y_.

I think "rahavirtana ajateltuna" (_(if/when) considered as cash flow_, or maybe _in terms of cash flow_) means that the real value of whatever the companies buy from each other has been left out of the equation.


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## Gavril

Määränpää said:


> The preceding sentence is  The idea is that Nokia has been paying _x_ to Microsoft and Microsoft has been paying _y_ to Nokia.
> 
> So far _x _has been a smaller number than _y_, but soon _x _will be more than _y_.
> 
> I think "rahavirtana ajateltuna" (_(if/when) considered as cash flow_,



But what exactly is being "considered" (= ajateltu) as cash flow here? I.e., what noun in the sentence is _ajateltu _modifying? (My best guess is that it modifies _yhteistyösopimus_, and I think Hakro agreed with this above, unless I misunderstood.)

I understood the general point that Nokia is about to be paying more than it's receiving; I was just a little bit confused by the syntax of _rahavirtana ajateltuna _in the sentence I quoted.

Kiitos vielä kerran


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## Spongiformi

Hakro said:


> "Considered as cash flow" is an exact translation. I just can't understand why the writer hasn't said simply _taloudellisesti_.
> 
> I think that the idea is that the result of the cooperation agreement will be an economical loss to Nokia but there may be other advantages.



I reckon the author didn't use _"taloudellisesti"_ for the explicit reason that it gives a wrong impression of the bigger picture. Whereas "cash flow" is nothing but a detached detail. Using common sense the OS is a component of the phone, and Nokia should be paying for every component: screen, battery, CPU, memory chips, etc, naturally including the OS. So, one cannot say that it's automatically _"taloudellisesti tappiollinen"_ because Nokia is supposed to cover the whole cost of the phone in the end-user price. The deal with MS was abnormal in the beginning due to MS wanting to increase its market share by any means available, including paying a phone maker.

If the author knew MS was going to charge outrageous money for the OS, then he might have used "_taloudellisesti_" instead (because it would be true).


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## Määränpää

Gavril said:


> But what exactly is being "considered" (= ajateltu) as cash flow here? I.e., what noun in the sentence is _ajateltu _modifying? (My best guess is that it modifies _yhteistyösopimus_, and I think Hakro agreed with this above, unless I misunderstood.)
> 
> I understood the general point that Nokia is about to be paying more than it's receiving; I was just a little bit confused by the syntax of _rahavirtana ajateltuna _in the sentence I quoted.
> 
> Kiitos vielä kerran



In a different sentence, _yhteistyösopimus_ would have been the object of the verb _ajatella_.
_Jos ajattelemme yhteistyösopimusta rahavirtana, se on tappiollinen _= _Rahavirtana ajateltuna sopimus on tappiollinen_.

_Jos kirje lähetetään postitse, se voi kadota._ = _Postitse lähetettynä kirje voi kadota._ ("If sent by mail, ...")

So yes, syntactically _ajateltuna_ definitely refers to _yhteistyösopimus.

_See also *VISK 976 §*: "essiivisijainen passiivinen partisiippilauseke" and *VISK 970 §* (e), (f), (g).


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## Määränpää

On the other hand, in the fixed expression "tarkemmin ajateltuna" _ajateltuna_ doesn't modify any word.

_Tarkemmin ajateltuna täällä ei kannattaisi asua._


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