# شيعة - شيعي



## IBNGABIROL

Hello. I would like to ask you why people usually use _shī‘ī_ instead of _shī‘i _(for example, when talking about _Shī‘ī Studies_).

From the world شيعة, transliterated as _shī‘ah_, how can we get _shī‘ī_? I firstly thought it could be the _nisbah_ of  شيعة, but then I realized that this would be _shī‘atī_, am I right? 

Therefore, where the transliteration _shī‘ī _comes from?


Many thanks for your help.


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## jack_1313

IBNGABIROL said:


> I firstly thought it could be the _nisbah_ of  شيعة, but then I realized that this would be _shī‘atī_, am I right?



No. To form the nisba adjective of a noun with a تاء مربوطة, the تاء مربوطة is (almost always) removed.


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## fdb

Nouns ending with ـــة normally drop this before adding the nisba ending, e.g. the nisba of Makkatu مكة is makkiyyun مكي.

The nisba of šīʻatun شيعة is šīʻiyyun شيعي.


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## IBNGABIROL

Oh, yes! I didn't remember this. Thank you very much. So, _shī‘ī_ is indeed the _nisbah_ of _shī‘ah_, true?


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## jack_1313

Yes, that's true, although note that there is a شدة on the final ي, something not reflected in these transliterations.


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## IBNGABIROL

Thank you.

However, where does the شدة comes from? I'm a little bit lost here. I have شيعة and to form the _nisbah_ I drop the ة and add the ي. Am I adding a ي with شدة?

Beyond this, in the transliteration I cannot reflect the شدة, can I?

Thanks again.


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## elroy

IBNGABIROL said:


> Am I adding a ي with شدة?


 Yes. 


IBNGABIROL said:


> in the transliteration I cannot reflect the شدة, can I?


 You can, by using "yy."


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## IBNGABIROL

Thanks. And why then it is often transliterated as_ shī‘ī_ instead of _shī'iyy_? (If there is any reason at all.)


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## elroy

Because many people pronounce it _*šī*3i_ instead of _šī*3iyy*_.  But this only happens if no inflection is pronounced.  Otherwise it’s pronounced _šī*3iy*yun/šī*3iy*yan/šī*3iy*yin_.


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## IBNGABIROL

Thanks again. Excuse me for my ignorance: when (or where) is the inflection not pronounced?


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## elroy

Typically, at the end of a sentence/utterance (_in pausa_) and when the word is pronounced in isolation.  But native speakers do it within a sentence/utterance too.  For example, if reading قال الرئيس الشيعي إن السرقة حرام out loud, I would most likely say _qaala ’r-ra2īsu ’š-šī3iyy• 2inna ’S-Sariqa• 7arām•_, where pronounced inflections are in red and • designates a dropped inflection.  This isn’t something I think about; I do it by feel, based on what sounds right and what flows well.


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## IBNGABIROL

Understood. Thank you.


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## Saley

elroy said:


> _qaala ’r-ra2īsu ’š-šī3iyy• 2inna ’s-sariqa• 7arām•_


Very convenient way of indicating pausal forms in transliteration! Have you invented it yourself?

PS. The _S_ should be small: _’s-sariqa•_.


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## elroy

I did.   Thanks!

Good catch!  I actually had _s_ first and then changed it to _S _without thinking about it!  I think it must be because it’s actually pronounced _S_ in this case despite the spelling, so _s_ looked weird in transliteration!


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## IBNGABIROL

Saley said:


> Very convenient way of indicating pausal forms in transliteration!



In Spanish we usually use superscript letters to denote it.


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## elroy

IBNGABIROL said:


> In Spanish we usually use superscript letters to denote it.


 What do you mean?  There’s no such thing as pausal forms in Spanish, and besides, why would you use superscript letters to represent pausal forms?  

In case it’s not clear, a pausal form is one in which the inflection isn’t pronounced - in Arabic.


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## Ghabi

The transliteration of <-iyy> has been discussed in this thread. Some scholars may choose to use -ī consciously. Wehr in the introduction to his dictionary explains why he chose to transliterate the nisba ending as -ī instead of īy:


> In transliteration, while the ending of _nisba_ adjectives regularly appears as _-ī_ (e.g., _janūbī_,_ dirāsī_,_ makkī_) the same ending is shown as _-īy_ for nominal forms of roots with a weak third radical, i.e., where the third radical is contained in the ending (e.g. _qaṣīy_,_ ṣabīy_,_ maḥmīy,_ _mabnīy_). This distinction, not present in Arabic script, may prove valuable to the user of the dictionary.


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## IBNGABIROL

elroy said:


> There’s no such thing as pausal forms in Spanish



When transliterating Arabic into Spanish.


elroy said:


> why would you use superscript letters to represent pausal forms?



As a convention, as you use red letters.


elroy said:


> In case it’s not clear, a pausal form is one in which the inflection isn’t pronounced - in Arabic.



Yes, it's. Thanks anyway.


Ghabi said:


> The transliteration of <-iyy> has been discussed in this thread.



Awesome! Thank you.


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## elroy

> the same ending is shown as _-īy_ for nominal forms of roots with a weak third radical, i.e., where the third radical is contained in the ending (e.g. _qaṣīy_,_ ṣabīy_,_ maḥmīy,mabnīy_)


 _īy_??   It’s pronounced _iyy_! 





IBNGABIROL said:


> as you use red letters


 I used red letters for inflections, not pausal forms.


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