# 拾金不昧



## Nicodi2

各位大家好，

'拾金不昧' 在现实生活中口头上能不能用？

比如这里 : 

他地上找到了一张地铁卡，拾金不昧把它交给柜台里面的人。

谢谢！


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## philchinamusical

这是一句成语，描绘的是一个行为的性质。所以我觉得口头上用完全没问题，比如：


> 我们家小朋友昨天放学回家路上捡到了一个钱包，拾金不昧，交给了警察叔叔


唯一和楼主的区别就是“拾金不昧”后面有个逗号，因为逗号后面的行为，实际上和“拾金不昧”是重复的，只是为了补充说明而已。但是口头上表达的时候，只要把逗号换成一个小停顿就可以了。


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## Broccolee

Nicodi2 said:


> 各位大家好，
> 
> '拾金不昧' 在现实生活中口头上能不能用？
> 
> 比如这里 :
> 
> 他地上找到了一张地铁卡，拾金不昧把它交给柜台里面的人。
> 
> 谢谢！



你好：
可以。不过要注意，“拾金不昧”是个形容词。

Broccolee


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## hx1997

To me, it's one of those fancy words that I would not use in a casual conversation with friends (or you'll sound like you're still in grade school or something). Perhaps I would use it in writing.


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## Skatinginbc

Nicodi2 said:


> '拾金不昧' 在现实生活中口头上能不能用？


Yes, if it is used as a predicate AND if it pertains to money or something worth a lot of money (钱财 or 贵重物品).  Subject (e.g., 他) + Predicate (拾金不昧)

Of course, the idiom can also be used as a noun (e.g., 拾金不昧是传统美德) or an adjective (e.g., 拾金不昧的美德) in formal writing.


Nicodi2 said:


> 他地上找到了一张地铁卡，拾金不昧把它交给柜台里面的人。


地铁卡 is NOT worth a lot money, so I will change it to 金表 (gold watch) in the following example:
他在地上捡到一个金表 + 他拾金不昧 + 他(把捡到的金表)交给了柜台服务员 = 他在地上捡到一个金表*，*拾金不昧*, *交给了柜台服务员。


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## Broccolee

Skatinginbc said:


> Yes, if it is used as a predicate AND if it pertains to money or something worth a lot of money (钱财 or 贵重物品).  Subject (e.g., 他) + Predicate (拾金不昧)
> 
> Of course, the idiom can also be used as a noun (e.g., 拾金不昧是传统美德) or an adjective (e.g., 拾金不昧的美德) in formal writing.
> 
> 地铁卡 is NOT worth a lot money, so I will change it to 金表 (gold watch).
> 他在地上捡到一个金表 + 他拾金不昧 + 他(把捡到的金表)交给了柜台服务员 = 他在地上捡到了一个金表*，*拾金不昧*, *交给了柜台服务员。



完全认同。


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## SuperXW

Broccolee said:


> “拾金不昧”是个形容词。


例句1：他是个拾金不昧的人。
拾金不昧：形容词

例句2：他拾金不昧，把钱交到了柜台。
拾金不昧：由并列动宾结构组成的成语，直接作谓语用。我觉得不算形容词。


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## SimonTsai

Skatinginbc said:


> the idiom can also be used as an adjective (e.g., 拾金不昧的美德).


For me, the adjective is 拾金不昧的.


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> For me, the adjective is 拾金不昧的.


我觉得内地对于形容词是否一定要加“的”并没有严格要求。比如“红”在无语境情况下，就可以被当成形容词，而不需要“红的”。


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> For me, the adjective is 拾金不昧的.


I was not being technical.  I merely wanted to say in simple words that it could also be used _for an adjectival function_ (like 快樂 in 快樂的人, 漂亮 in 漂亮的女朋友).  Technically speaking, 拾金不昧 can never be an adjective (a word that modifies or describes a noun) because it is not a word but a clause, even in 他是个拾金不昧的人 (He is a person who will _return money found_ on the street), in which 拾金不昧的 is an adjectival relative clause.


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## SimonTsai

@SuperXW, I cannot come up with a case in which the 的 in 拾金不昧的 can be excluded; it is compulsory. But I agree that it is optional in many other cases.


Skatinginbc said:


> ... pertains to money or something worth a lot of money.


Would you describe someone who found an EasyCard in the mass rapid transit station and then returned it in good faith as 拾金不昧的?

I would, given that, regardless of the amount, we would say that someone who took found money to the police in good faith 拾金不昧.


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## Skatinginbc

I said: "if it pertains to (1) money (钱 regardless of the amount) OR (2) something worth a lot of money (贵重物品)."


SimonTsai said:


> Would you describe someone who found an EasyCard in the mass rapid transit station and then returned it in good faith as 拾金不昧的?


It sounds like 掉書袋 (see #4) to say "拾金不昧的" in daily conversation ("在现实生活中口头上用", see #1).  Please keep in mind that we are discussing the spoken language for everyday life (as opposed to public speech or writing).


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## SimonTsai

他這個人，拾金不昧：有一次我在他前頭掉了悠遊卡，他跑來還我。關於他的人品，你可以放一百二十個心：我認識，我清楚，我推薦，我保證。


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## Skatinginbc

他這個人，拾金不昧：有一次我在他前頭掉了悠遊卡 (or 信用卡, or 手機 or 身分證, or 假髮, or 手帕, or 一包煙)，他追上來還我。==>  I would consider it either 用詞不當 or 例證欠佳.


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## SimonTsai

Skatinginbc said:


> I would consider it either 用詞不當 or 例證欠佳.


Would a credit card work better than an EasyCard for you?

I consider 拾金不昧 to be possibly applicable to a found EasyCard because it is a smart card, which can be directly used to perform financial transactions, whereas the following cannot.


> 手機, or 身分證, or 假髮, or 手帕, or 一包煙


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## Romildo

SimonTsai said:


> Would 信用卡 work better than 悠遊卡 for you?
> 
> I consider 拾金不昧 to be possibly applicable to 悠遊卡 because it is a smart card.
> 
> A smart card or a credit card can be directly used to perform financial transactions, whereas the following cannot.



前面几位朋友回答得很到位。我再针对这位朋友的问题谈谈自己的想法。

我认为，捡到信用卡之类的物品并进行归还，用“拾金不昧”形容是不恰当的。因为他们不具备被“昧”的隐蔽性。

成语中的“金”是指有直接经济价值的钱财或贵重物品，这些钱财或物品往往具有很强的通用性，不具备明确的归属特征（或者说，不容易看出它属于谁）。如果据为已有，别人也无法觉察，只不过会受到良心的谴责，并不至于构成犯罪。因此，也正印证了拾金不昧这种行为的高尚性。
而各种卡，本身是没有价值的，它是价值的载体，或代表着间接价值。如果捡到信用卡并去消费，应该要负法律责任的，这可不是单纯的“昧”与“不昧”的问题。


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## SimonTsai

Romildo said:


> 因为他们不具备被 “昧” 的隐蔽性。


I would like to add that in Taiwan, some EasyCards are anonymous. (But they seem to be decreasingly used.)


> 如果据为已有，别人也无法觉察，[...] 并不至于构成犯罪。


A crime committed with no one else knowing it is still a crime.


> 如果捡到信用卡并去消费，应该要负法律责任的。


To misappropriate found coins or notes amounts to a crime as well.


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## Romildo

上面的朋友请注意一下，我们不是在这里讨论法律问题。从法理的角度来讲，有些表述未必十分恰当。
“并不至于构成犯罪”，请重新解读如下：“自以为并不至于构成犯罪”。谢谢。


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## SuperXW

没仔细看是怎么扯到这里的，我只是看到“捡到信用卡（不用密码的那种）追上来还我”，说这个人“拾金不昧”，我觉得没问题啊？不是说要归还金子才叫拾金不昧吧……


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## SimonTsai

Thank you, @Romildo, for making your point clear. It is not until I read the post above that I get what you mean.

But, personally, I would say that people misappropriating found money are aware that they are breaking the law, yet willing to take the risk of being caught because they are blinded by their greed.


Romildo said:


> 而各种卡，本身是没有价值的，它是价值的载体，或代表间接价值。


Whether or not the monetary value of an item is direct is irrelevant. What matters is the connexion to cash:

Jewellery, silver watches, and gold rings are valuable.
EasyCards usually carry some monetary value.
Credit cards are typically used to perform financial transactions.



Nicodi2 said:


> 他地上找到了一张地铁卡


Since it is a card (to which value can be added) rather than a ticket, I have no problem.


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## Skatinginbc

拾金不昧: 拾到財物,不藏起來*據*為己有. 金: *錢*或*貴重物品*. 昧:*隱藏*。
Considerations:
(1) 是*錢*(money)或*貴重物品*(valuables)嗎?
(2) 可匿性 (untraceability): 可*隱*匿，神不知鬼不覺嗎? Electronic transactions can be traced.
(3) 可儲性 (storability): 能*藏*幾天才使用嗎? A card holder may cancel the account any time.
(4) 可據性 (possessability/transferability): 能易主, *據*為己有嗎?  A registered card (記名卡, e.g., a credit card) is linked to a specific card holder’s account.


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 拾金不昧: 拾到財物,不藏起來*據*為己有. 金: *錢*或*貴重物品*. 昧:*隱藏*。
> Considerations:
> (1) 是*錢*(money)或*貴重物品*(valuables)嗎?
> (2) 可匿性 (untraceability): 可*隱*匿，神不知鬼不覺嗎? Electronic transactions can be traced.
> (3) 可儲性 (storability): 能*藏*幾天才使用嗎? A card holder may cancel the account any time.
> (4) 可據性 (possessability/transferability): 能易主, *據*為己有嗎?  A registered card (記名卡, e.g., a credit card) is linked to a specific card holder’s account.


照您和Romildo这么说，“拾金不昧”这个成语是时候退出历史舞台了。
但是在黄金价值纸币化的年代，这词健在，那么现在到了纸币电子化的时代，我估计多数人也不会这么古板。
说说悠游卡吧。据我所知，这就是个常见的交通卡。传统的交通卡都是不记名的，是个人都能刷的。
(1)是钱。里面有电子货币。
(2)可匿性：放兜里就没人知道是谁放的。Trace？怎么算trace？交易的时间地点可以确定，但交易人是谁还不是得靠摄像头？靠摄像头的话，拍到有人捡了金子纸币，不一样也能trace？再说，现实中的小额盗用有几单是真给trace回来的？
(3)可储性：“隐藏”两字都能被您拆分成“可匿性”和“可储性”，服了。同上，放兜里就是“藏”了。就算上面写着谁的名字，藏了也是藏了。不记名的卡可以cancel吗？？就算是信用卡，很多也是丢了被盗刷了扣款了才知道的。
(4)可据性：只要能消费，就是占据其价值了。
所以按常理来说，只要是容易盗刷的卡，“拾金不昧”都适用。


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## Skatinginbc

Skatinginbc said:


> 是*錢*(money)或貴重物品(valuables)嗎?


Here 錢 is in its broad sense, including such cash-like properties as *bearer instruments *(i.e., owned by whoever physically holds them, payable to the bearer, regardless of whom it was originally issued to).  Thus, returning an unsigned $2 winning scratch-and-win ticket or a $5 casino chip may be described as 拾金不昧.


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