# 灯りを下さい



## Arence

Hello, I'm looking for a romanji translation for: 灯りを下さい , automatic translation sites get me "akari o kudasai", however, these are song lyrics and the first word doesn't sound like that at all. 
Thank you very much.


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## lammn

Hi Arence,

Another spelling for 灯り would be "tomori".

But I'm wondering if the singer sings "raito", which means "light". Can you hear what does the singer sing actually?


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## Arence

Tomori is exactly the word. Thank you lammn!


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## paristung

tomori is one kind of light item traditional like this:
(I can't post the URLs to other sites so please use google and key the "灯り" to find some pictures by yourself)

so it means "please give me a light" or "please give me a tomori"
I think.


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## Ocham

I'm afraid this would be of no help, but I've never heard
or seen 灯り(tomori). Our dictionaries don't have the word
neither.


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## lammn

Ocham said:


> I've never heard or seen 灯り(tomori). Our dictionaries don't have the word neither.


 
灯り（ともり） is the noun form of 灯る.
I have to check 灯る in dictionary.

So, it seems that "tomori" is not the "ordinary/usual" pronunciation, right?


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## Flaminius

灯り is the adverbial form (連用形) of the verb 灯る.  An adverbial form can be the gerund of the verb (e.g., 泊まり < 泊まる), a noun with rather a separate meaning (e.g., 離れ < 離れる) but not all verbs have these derivatives.

As *Ocham* has mentioned, there is no such noun as 灯り (_tomori_).  灯りを下さい cannot be read other than _akari-o kudasai_.


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## lammn

Arence said:


> Tomori is exactly the word.


 


Flaminius said:


> As *Ocham* has mentioned, there is no such noun as 灯り (_tomori_). 灯りを下さい cannot be read other than _akari-o kudasai_.


 
The conclusion would then be: the singer has pronounced 灯り in an inappropriate manner. 

(Moderator Note: The discussion about adverbial forms is now a sepapate thread.)


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## Flaminius

> The conclusion would then be: the singer has pronounced 灯り in an inappropriate manner.


It is still puzzling why a mistake like that could slip out.    If the singer is a professional performer on a professional performance, pronunciation errors like this (which itself is somewhat unlikely for an adult Japanese speaker) could have been weeded out while she was practising the song.

*Arence*, I am, therefore, inclined to think that it could have been something else such as _tomoshibi_ (fire that one lights for light  ).  The most general reading of a word can be superseded by something else in a Japanese text if a furigana is supplied.  Furigana is usually a pronunciation guide but people often take the liberty of assigning a synonym as furigana for artistic effects.

For example, 愛し is usually _itoshi_ (precious, beloved; archaic conjugation), so the expected furigana is いと.  I have seen a Japanese poetry that specified かな to render the reading _kanashi_ (which was not just sadness in Classic Japanese).  The art of furigana would need a whole thread to discuss, so let me limit myself giving a few examples.
政府 おかみ
情人 れこ
地下牢 ダンジョン

Electronic texts sometimes drop furigana because there is no agreed rules for treating furigana in Japanese computing.  I am guessing this is the reason for this puzzle.


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## paristung

I think majority knows that tomori is came from tomoru,
but the important thing is to check what tomori means in use all right?
It's jut cause I can't post the picture of it.

英語で書くのは面倒くさいから……表現が曖昧になるわけですから。

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提灯は聞いたことあるでしょうね？其れみたいなものですわ。

連用形＝名詞と同然です。
時に動詞の元の意味だけを持ってるわけではありませんから、他の概念や意味、意味拡張の発生もありうるがため、言葉ごとに辞書だけじゃなくて、国語辞書あるいはネットで調べるほうがよいと思います。

正直にいうと、灯り（ともり）という名詞が辞書で載ってないのは、強いて言えば”正しい（もっと多い人々が使ってる）”言い方は、灯し、灯火、灯り（あかり）なのですから、が、言葉は死んだ者ではないか、人々が「灯り」という言葉を用いてる限り、この名詞が、ある、と認めないわけにはいかない事実がありますから。
*
URL spipped*

これをみてご覧なさい、そういう使い方もありますから。一言で、否定してはいかないですから。

if you can't read this ...I can't help...


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## lammn

ペリスさん、灯りについてのサイトを提供してくれてどうもありがとうございました。

そのサイトによると、「ともり」というのは、確かに提灯みたいなLEDライトですね。
(According to that site, "tomori" is a LED light which looks like a paper lantern.)

わたしはネットで調べきれないまま「ともり」の発音を否定してどうも失礼しました。


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## Flaminius

パリスさん、よろしくおねがいします

紹介してくださった「ともり」は商品の名前ですね。商品に名前をつける人たちは、知恵を絞って今までになかった言葉を作り出します。商品の宣伝には、普通名詞では効果がありません。*Arence*さんの調べている歌がこの商品の宣伝歌なら別ですが、このサイトは「灯り」をどう読むかという問題とは無関係です。

「正しい言い方」とは多くの人が使えるか、聞いて理解できるかどうかだというお考えには賛成です。ただし、「ともり」という普通名詞はわたくしには理解できませんし、他の回答者も同意見です。もし以前には存在したが既に使われない語であると主張されるなら、古語辞典などを使って商品名以外にも存在していたことの証拠をお見せください。

*
Moderator Note:
 For a few posts now the thread discussion focuses on a product name found in a commercial site.  All posters are requested by the Forum Rules (esp. #32-9) to please refrain from mentioning URLs of commercial sites.  Posts have been edited accordingly.

Flam, JP moderator*


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