# に used in the passive voice



## Seikun

Hi.
I have been wondering about this and I would like your knowledge here.

I have read about the には + が + いる/ある construction to express possession. I have read that に is (in a sense) used in its locative sense to express that something or someone belongs to someone. In a more literal way it would be like saying that _something or someone exists in someone else's range of possession/presence:_

桂さんには鉛筆がある。 = Mr. Katsura has a pencil.
(lit: A pencil exists in Mr. Katsura ('s range of possession/presence).

I have been wondering if this same logic is what is being used in the passive voice, that is, に is used in its locative meaning to express that the action (verb-られる) exists or takes place in the agent marked with に. If I think of particle に is this way it makes perfect sense to me.

手紙が桂さんに書かれました。 = The letter was written by Mr. Katsura.
(lit: letter was written in Mr. Katsura (_Mr. Katsura_ being where the action took place or existed)).

Is this the right approach to understand the purpose of using に for the passive voice?

Thanks in advance!


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Seikun said:


> 手紙が桂さんに書かれました。 = The letter was written by Mr. Katsura.
> (lit: letter was written in Mr. Katsura (_Mr. Katsura_ being where the action took place or existed)).
> 
> Is this the right approach to understand the purpose of using に for the passive voice?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



手紙が桂さんに書かれました usually means:
The letter to Mr. Katsura was written.
The letter which was sent to Mr. Kasura was written.

The letter was written by Mr. Katsura.
=その手紙は桂さんによって書かれました。
＝その手紙は桂さんが書いたものです。


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## Seikun

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> 手紙が桂さんに書かれました usually means:
> The letter to Mr. Katsura was written.
> The letter which was sent to Mr. Kasura was written.
> 
> The letter was written by Mr. Katsura.
> =その手紙は桂さんによって書かれました。
> ＝その手紙は桂さんが書いたものです。


Hi
Thanks for replying.
Could you tell me what verb よって is?

Thanks.


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## YangMuye

Seikun said:


> I have been wondering if this same logic is what is being used in the passive voice, that is, に is used in its locative meaning to express that the action (verb-られる) exists or takes place in the agent marked with に. If I think of particle に is this way it makes perfect sense to me.


It makes sense.

In fact, 私に何ができる literally means “out of me what (may) happens”, although this is* not *the way Japanese speakers perceive it.

In Chinese, the passive construction “見<verb>於人”, which literally means “(something) was seen <verb>-ed at somebody's location”, is read as “人に～される” by means of the kundoku method.

Both Chinese and Japanese make use of locative nouns with passive construction to express honorifics, e.g. 閣下, 殿下, 殿, 陛下, etc.
　　かしこくも大元帥陛下*には*雛鷲練成の聖地、修武台に行幸（ぎょうこう）*あらせられ*、陸軍航空士官学校第五十五期生徒卒業式に親臨*あらせられ*ました。(Note the ＜人＞*には*＜動詞＞*有*らせられる construction. The subject is marked by には.)

With that being said, The Japanese passive is used differently than in English. You cannot always expect a sentence can be literally translated.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Seikun said:


> Hi
> Thanks for replying.
> Could you tell me what verb よって is?
> 
> Thanks.



Maybe it's easier for you to remember that ”～によって=by."

桂さんに書かれた has two meanings, "written by Katsura" and "Written to Katsura."
However, 桂さんによってかかれた has only one meaning, "written by Katsura" because "桂さんによって" doesn't have the meaning of "to Katsura."

I didn't even think that よって is a verb.
But yes, it's a verb originally: 依る　－－＞依って.


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## karlalou

に indicates location, but it also has other usages.
They might have the same origin but even a dictionary don't say so except for the case YangMuye has mentioned.

*桂さんには鉛筆がある* just says "_For_ Katsura, there's pencils[a pencil]".
Maybe that means he possesses pencils[a pencil] in his mind, but it also can mean that (I give you this ruler. Don't worry because) _for_ Katsura I got some pencils.
This same sentence structure, however, can be used for a location such as チリにはアンデス山脈がある or 日本にはお寿司がある.

In the case of 手紙が桂さん_*に*_書かれました, if this meant to be a passive sentence, then this *に* is used to show the 'action giver', and it's equivalent to English '_by_'. It's hard for me to think this *に* indicating location. (more naturally it would be 手紙*は*桂さんに*書いてもらいました* or 手紙*は*桂さん*が書きました* or *桂さんが手紙を書き終えました*.)
But this 書かれました can be very possibly taken as a polite version of 書きました, and so, like SoLaTiDoberman says, this *に* can mean English 'to (somebody)', and then, I feel, it becomes closer to indicating location.

Actually, ..someone might say 手紙は桂さん*で*書きました and this sounds like the speaker treating 桂さん as if he is a 'place'. It might be considered as an abbreviation of 桂さん宅[の家,のところ]. But に can't be replaced for this *で *here.


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## frequency

Seikun said:


> 桂さんには鉛筆がある。 = Mr. Katsura has a pencil.
> (lit: A pencil exists in Mr. Katsura ('s range of possession/presence).


 
This is different to your second example: two-emphasis. _For/to Katsura-san, there's a pencil._

It is just a way of expression. And as far as I know, in Russian you can say 'I have xx' in this way. (Yoshie来ないかな・・)


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## Seikun

Hi.
Thanks for all the replies!

Well, I looked up the meaning of 依る and found that indicates a reason (_to be due to; be caused (by_)) as well as "by means of" and now it makes sense using によって to express who is the agent in the passive voice.

Now, most examples using the passive voice simply use に whereas よって is omitted. In this situation it becomes very hard to make sense of に because the first meaning that comes to mind (mine) is in its directional meaning (to/towards/for) which, at least in my head, doesn't make any sense to what the passive voice intends to express. This is why I thought that に to state the agent was being used for its locative meaning (in/at) to show that the action in an abstract sense takes place in the person being stated as the agent. In this sense, I thought that に worked the same way it does in には + が + いる/ある to express possession. In that case, に made sense to me being used for its locative meaning in an abstact sense.

パンは友達に食べられた。 = Bread was eaten by friend.
_Bread was eaten *in/at* friend. _Thinking of に as showing the "place" where the action takes place seems logical and makes に standing alone easy for me to understand and then I'm naturally led to view に as "by".

The problem with all online lessons about the Japanese passive voice is that no site explains why に is used for the agent, they only tell you that it is translated as "by" and then you are left in some sort of a limbo where you have been denied information that could help you make sense of the use of に in the passive voice.

About the sentence about the letter, I took it from another site thinking it was much better than me thinking a new sentence. I just replaced the original agent with 桂さん.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

パンは友達に食べられた。 = Bread was eaten by a friend.
In this context, there is no confusion. It is clear. に means "by."

However,
the sentence "手紙が桂さんに書かれました。" has ambiguity because it has the two meaning.

1. The letter was written *by* Mr. Katsura.
2. The letter was written *to* Mr. Katsura.

In order to distinguish them, we can say:
1. 手紙が桂さん*によって*書かれました。
2. 手紙が桂さん*に向けて*書かれました。＝手紙が桂さん*あてに（宛に）*書かれました。

...................................
It totally depends on the context, and I don't think it's something big/difficult.
Grammar textbooks cannot tell the whole possibility of the usages of a word/participle. 
I think it's common for all languages.
For example, in the English language, I don't think I can cover the whole usages of "by", "to", "on", or "in" by reading a grammar textbook. I have to read tens of thousands of English articles to master them. I have to learn them one by one, step by step.

Any languages are not so easy to be able to learn by only one online textbook.


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## karlalou

Sometimes, less is less, huh?



Seikun said:


> Now, most examples using the passive voice simply use に whereas よって is omitted.


OK. Omitting よって is just more usual. If someone says 〜によって〜されました, it sounds formal or rigid. Though we sometimes use it when studying a language to make it clearer.



Seikun said:


> About the sentence about the letter, I took it from another site thinking it was much better than me thinking a new sentence. I just replaced the original agent with 桂さん.


I must say that that example sentence was not well written. Something that no one would say. You can always get more natural examples right here.


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## frequency

Seikun said:


> パンは友達に食べられた。


We don't say so. I think this に is from によって that is lacking よって.
We have によって、に対して、について、etc, and they sometimes become に. This is not a good thing, though.

See 君に書かれた手紙. 
 に works two-way: written to you and written by you (when it is the lacking-version of によって).

Don't forget the primary principle that に, a powerful particle, works as →. About other various but minor functions of に, consult with a dictionary. Moreover, note that particle （から、の、も、etc） doesn't have its own logic very much.
https://learnenglishorstarve.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/failprep/

YangMuyeが前に何か言ってたよな・・
_夕飯に何を食べよう_、だっけ。Even in this case, I see →.


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## YangMuye

Language is not as ambiguous as it may appear to you, Seikun.

The basic rule in Japanese is:
- If animate nouns take priority over inanimate nouns as the subject.
- When the inanimate object becomes the subject, the original subject should not appear in the same sentence, or at least should be marked by によって.
- When both the subject and the object are animate nouns, the indirect passive should be used.
- Never turn first person subject into a passive object.

For these reasons, the sentence 手紙が桂さんに書かれました tends to mean 手紙が桂さんに(誰かによって)書かれました.
I think パンは友達に食べられた is more like a transform of 友達にパン*を*食べられた. は replaces を.
I heard that パン*が*友達に食べられた is also possible, but I think the 私の is implied so it is still a type of indirect passive (持ち主の受身).


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## Seikun

Thanks for all the answers!


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