# تلقائي  - تِفْعال



## inquisitiveness1

The adjective تلقائي _tilqā'ī_ "automatic" obviously is derived form-wise from the preposition تلقاء _tilqā'_, but since the root is l-q-y, that would make the pattern tif3āl (ok, the ending part of the word maybe has a different underlying form due to weak-final-root shenanigans, I don't know, but I think I got it right). To my memory, I have never seen this pattern used in Arabic. Are there other words in Arabic formed with this pattern?


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## Ghabi

There are words like timthaal, timraad, tibyaan. Perhaps there are more.


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## Finland

Also تكرار، ترحاب، ، تجوال


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## Ghabi

No, not really. These have the common maSdar form taf3aal. Perhaps you were thinking in colloquial Arabic, thus mixing up ti- and ta-.


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## elroy

Ghabi, you never cease to impress me.  I had no idea it was تَكرار in MSA!!!


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## Ghabi

That's because you're a native speaker, and Finland's Arabic is as good as a native. Can I confirm you sayتِكرار in PA?


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## analeeh

I am also surprised to learn it's _takraar_ in MSA! That sounds so wrong!

In Syrian it's _tikraar_, and also _tijfaaf, tislaaye, timsaaye_...


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## elroy

Yes, as in the saying التِكرار بعلّم الحمار.


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## Finland

Hello



Ghabi said:


> That's because you're a native speaker, and Finland's Arabic is as good as a native. Can I confirm you sayتِكرار in PA?



LOL!!

I'm truly astonished that it is actually indeed takraar. Just cannot bring myself to pronouncing it that way... But it is not the first time this happens with the vocalisation of certain words...


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## analeeh

For what it's worth I think this is a very common mistake. The Wikipedia page for _tajfaaf_ even includes the fat7a written over the t.


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## elroy

What about تمساح? (Ghabi, I double-checked to make sure this one actually is _ti-_ in MSA. )  Is there a connection between alligators and wiping??


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## Ghabi

تمساح is an interesting word, as it's said to be a loanword from Coptic, and a related word (in ancient Egyptian) is recorded in Herodotus (rendered as "champsai" in Greek) (Greek-English parallel text here). But timsaa7 can't be compared with tilqaa2, I guess.


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## barkoosh

To keep things as simple as possible, if the form تفعال is:
1. مصدر, then it's تَفعال as in تَكرار - تَجوال - تَرداد... The two common exceptions are تِبيان and تِلقاء
2. اسم, then it's تِفعال as in تِمثال - تِمساح


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## inquisitiveness1

Ghabi said:


> There are words like timthaal, timraad, tibyaan. Perhaps there are more.


I actually know تِمثال , but totally forgot about it. Didn't know the other two.


elroy said:


> What about تمساح? (Ghabi, I double-checked to make sure this one actually is _ti-_ in MSA. )  Is there a connection between alligators and wiping??


This is as Ghabi said. It isn't a root applied to a pattern like I am asking for, it is a loanword ultimately from Ancient Egyptian that just happens to have that form.


barkoosh said:


> To keep things as simple as possible, if the form تفعال is:
> 1. مصدر, then it's تَفعال as in تَكرار - تَجوال - تَرداد... The two common exceptions are تِبيان and تِلقاء
> 2. اسم, then it's تِفعال as in تِمثال - تِمساح


تِبيان and تِلقاء are both masdars? I did not know that (especially not for تِبيان since I didn't even know that word) - تِلقاء especially surprises me.


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## barkoosh

That's what some references say.


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## Mazhara

Ayah 7:47

*وَإِذَا صُرِفَتْ أَبْصَارُهُمْ تِلْقَاءَ أَصْحَابِ النَّارِ قَالُواْ رَبَّنَا لاَ تَجْعَلْنَا مَعَ الْقَوْمِ الظَّالِمِينَ*

Ayah 10:15

*وَإِذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا ائْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـذَا أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلاَّ مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ*

Ayah 28:22

*وَلَمَّا تَوَجَّهَ تِلْقَاءَ مَدْيَنَ قَالَ عَسَى رَبِّي أَن يَهْدِيَنِي سَوَاءَ السَّبِيلِ*

Its use perhaps does not suggest it a masdar, rather as noun.

Ayah 16:89


*وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَى هَـؤُلاَءِ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِّكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ*


This is masdar.


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## Ghabi

analeeh said:


> The Wikipedia page for _tajfaaf_ even includes the fat7a written over the t.


Presumably that is to tell the neologism tajfaaf apart from the old word tijfaaf (I just learned this word, which the dictionaries say means a sort of armour worn by horses)?


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## barkoosh

تَجفاف (dehydration) is مصدر of the verb جفّف. That's why the ت has fat7a.

As mentioned, some dictionaries say that the archaic noun تِجفاف is a sort of armor. The weird thing is that other dictionaries call this armor تَجفاف. One allows for both, saying:
التَّجفاف، والتِّجفاف (في الفارسية تَنْ باهْ: أي حارس البدن)‏

I'm glad we don't have to worry about all of that in MSA.


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## Jamal31

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone can provide any info on the conjugation of the word تِمْثال , meaning 'statue'? This is the first I've seen of an addition of a Taa with a Kasrah in morphology.


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## elroy

Nouns don't get conjugated.  I'm not sure what you're asking about.


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## analeeh

The pattern _tif3aal_ is relatively unusual, but exists for a few words. I'd give you examples but unfortunately in my head this pattern is irrevocably confused with _taf3aal_, which is also pronounced _tif3aal_ in Levantine Arabic (e.g. تجفاف تكرار) but in fuSHa is prescriptively distinct. Another example is perhaps تمساح (although I think this is originally a borrowing - possibly تمثال is too).


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## Jamal31

Thanks, Analeeh. What exactly is the meaning achieved by this form?


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