# there was honey still for tea



## aliceland

*S*apete dirmi se questa frase può avere un significato diverso da quello letterale "miele per il tè"?

*I*nserito in questo periodo:
"I listened to his talk about St John's and Cambridge for almost half an hour. At one point, he asked me if the church clock continued to stand at ten to three, and I replied that there was, as far as I knew, honey still for tea"


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## evrix

Given that the literal sense is not what we are looking for here, there probably are two second meanings:
1. the honey is not over so we can stay [I refer to the fact that if honey is over guests go away, as a cliché)
2. the honey refers to the clock and the tea refers to the talker
Obviusly, I suppose that saying "there is still honey for tea" generally means "we have time for our business"


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## aliceland

*O*k. *T*hanks


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## rrose17

I think we'd need more context to understand what this means exactly. I don't think there's any hidden message here but we'd need to know who's talking to who. It sounds like an inside joke about this place that they both know so well.


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## Giorgio Spizzi

La mia impressione che si voglia sottolineare l'immutabilità delle cose e dei costumi. Così come l'orologio continua a dare la stessa ora, allo stesso modo (forse) il tè continua a venire addolcito col miele.
GS


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## aliceland

I think the interpretation of evrix is right, because these two people were doing business together and because it sounded something like "we can keep on doing business because we have common feelings", and the common feeling might be the common background (Cambridge University)


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## london calling

It's from Rupert Brooke's poem about a Vicarage:

_Stands the Church clock at ten to three?_
_And is there honey still for tea?_

E Giorgio ha ragione. Si riferisce all'immutabilità delle cose. Non so la tradurrei: forse cercherei qualche cosa di simile e di altrettanto conosciuta della letteratura italiana.


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## evrix

L'orologio della chiesa è ancora fermo a dieci alle tre?
E per caso è rimasto del miele per il tè?


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## london calling

evrix said:


> L'orologio della chiesa è ancora fermo a dieci alle tre?
> E per caso è rimasto del miele per il tè?


Carino, ma "tea" qui non significa tè, significa il pasto serale. Vedi alla voce "high tea" ( a casa mia a Londra chiamiamo ancora "tea" il pasto che si fa intorno alle 18.00: si vede che i miei sono restii ai cambiamenti!).


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## CPA

london calling said:


> Carino, ma "tea" qui non significa tè, significa il pasto serale. Vedi alla voce "high tea" ( a casa mia a Londra chiamiamo ancora "tea" il pasto che si fa intorno alle 18.00: si vede che i miei sono restii ai cambiamenti!).


 
Infatti, e il miele si usa spalmato sulle tartine, non per addolcire il tè.


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## marcolettici

He's reminiscing about the town of Grantchester and wonders if things are still the same as in his sweet, idealized memories.  It's the last line of the poem.


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## citro

Riesumo questo topic perché anch'io ho trovato questa espressione in una frase che non capisco.
Due spie che hanno fatto una scoperta importante, devono comunicarla al loro capo e uno dei due però vuole trovare il modo giusto per farlo perché spera in un avanzamento di carriera e dice:
"We box clever, it'll be honey for tea for us both from here on in."
Mio tentativo: "Giochiamo d'astuzia, sarà il miele per il tè per entrambi d'ora in poi."
Però in italiano non vuole dire molto, almeno per me. Il significato dovrebbe essere quello di agevolare la strada verso una promozione o qualcosa di simile.


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## Anja.Ann

Ciao, Citro  

Se ho capito bene, direi che "it will be honey for tea for us from here on _in_" dovrebbe, suppergiù, significare "d'ora in poi, per noi due, (grazie alla nostra importante scoperta) sarà un po' come "trovare miele all'ora del tè."  cioè, dal momento che l'abbinamento "miele e tè" è scontato, il parlante dà per scontata la loro promozione. Direi "... da questo momento, per noi due, la strada è spianata" (verso la promozione).  

Aspetta però altri suggerimenti.


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## theartichoke

While I haven't a clue what "we box clever" means, I think the "honey for tea" idea is pretty much the same as it is in the thread above: evidently, in England at some point, it was considered a treat (perhaps even a luxury) to have honey to spread on your bread at the meal called "tea." The spies, then, are assuming that they're going to get promoted, and with the promotion will come a salary increase or some such thing, enabling them to enjoy such luxuries as "honey for tea." I'd probably translate it into an equivalent Italian expression for luxurious living....none of which is coming to mind.


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## evrix

While *giochiamo d'astuzia* is a correct translation for  _we box clever_ and *d'ora in poi* might be good enough for _from here on in_ - maybe  *a questo punto* being a little better - I suppose that we prefer *cacio sui maccheroni* al *miele sui te*...


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## Anja.Ann

Hi, Evrix  

Secondo me "cacio sui maccheroni" è la "scoperta" (che cade a fagiolo in vista della promozione), ma non quello che i due protagonisti prevedono per il futuro grazie ... al cacio sui maccheroni (cioè, grazie alla scoperta).  

 "We box clever, _it'll be honey for tea for us both from here on in_." Based on Theart's comments, maybe " ... avremo vita facile dopo questa scoperta/questo fatto"


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## evrix

Forse si...
*andrà tutto liscio come l'olio
sarà come rubare caramelle ai bambini/vendere frigo agli esquimesi
sarà una passeggiata
*ettici ettici


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## theartichoke

evrix said:


> Forse si...
> *andrà tutto liscio come l'olio
> sarà come rubare caramelle ai bambini/vendere frigo agli esquimesi
> sarà una passeggiata
> *ettici ettici



I don't think, though, that the "honey for tea" refers to the ease with which the spies will advance their careers, but rather the life of luxury they'll enjoy once they're promoted and better paid. "Honey for tea" not being an AE expression, the equivalent that comes to mind for me is "we'll both be living high off the hog from here on in" Or the more old-fashioned "we'll both be in clover from here on in." And now I'm very curious as to what Italian expressions are out there for living the good life with lots of money: I'm sure there's something more colourful than "vita facile."


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## King Crimson

What springs to mind is _d'ora in poi faremo una vita da re / da pascià_, but I'm sure others will weigh in.


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## rrose17

I also have a hard time understanding what "we box clever" might mean. Is it that "we know how to box, we're quite smart about it"? Any Brits in the audience able to cast some light? For "It'll be honey for tea from now on" I take to mean that "they're going to pamper us, treat us with a lot more respect from now on." I don't know if it's quite as lavish as being treated like royalty.


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## evrix

@artichoke
of course a good translation depends on the context: whether they're american spies like chevy chase, which I suppose not to be the case according to your not considering it american english, or johnny english, in which case _faremo una vita da re/nababbi_ might be worth a chance.
@rose
I already referenced _box clever_, not sure it is a correct meaning tough. Referring to the tea question, _fare una vita da re_ has no direct reference to real majesties. I find a difference, instead, between the sense of _being treated more respectfully_ and _living high off the hog_ in the fact that the first expression has a reference to others, whoever they may be, that's not in the original sentence, at least to me, but probably I don't get the full sense of it.


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## theartichoke

I should admit that I'm largely guessing about the exact meaning of "honey for tea," based on the context and a childhood spent reading post-war British children's books in which getting anything other than bread-and-butter for tea was viewed as quite the luxury. My guess is that it's hung around as an example of classic British understatement: Italians get the life of a king, while the Brits are satisfied with a smear of honey on their bread.

 Given that "we box clever" would seem to be a BE expression so very British that rrose and I had never so much as heard of it, we probably need a BE speaker here to confirm exactly what these spies think they're going to be getting.


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## citro

theartichoke said:


> Given that "we box clever" would seem to be a BE expression so very British that rrose and I had never so much as heard of it, we probably need a BE speaker here to confirm exactly what these spies think they're going to be getting.


D'accordissimo theartichoke. Continuo a non capire "honey for tea". Il riferimento alla ricchezza non va, il tizio che dice la frase è ricco di suo, non cerca i soldi. Ma vuole fortissimamente ottenere una promozione, o meglio  diventare il capo  del controspionaggio. E forse quindi è più pertinente un cosa del tipo "tutto sarà facile d'ora in poi". Ma se arrivasse un BE speaker...


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## cercolumi

Mi viene in mente: "Sarà manna dal cielo per noi d'ora in poi".
"Sarà tutto tarallucci e vino per noi d'ora in poi."?


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## citro

Alla fine, credo che abbia ragione theartichoke. Il miele inteso come cosa preziosa. Grazie mille a tutti.


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## london calling

It's a quotation from a poem (The Old Vicarage, Grantchester) by Rupert Brooke, as I said a few years back.

“Stands the Church clock at ten to three? And is there still honey for tea?”

_Box clever_ is idiomatic and I have always taken it to mean to get what you  want, maybe in a slightly devious way, so 'giocare d'astuzia' fits the bill. I also agree that the 'honey for tea' means a good life, so any of the expressions suggested below will work. 

My opinion.


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## CPA

They must be two very British and very educated spies to be quoting Rupert Brooke. Would you say "from here on in", Jo?


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## london calling

CPA said:


> They must be two very British and very educated spies to be quoting Rupert Brooke. Would you say "from here on in", Jo?


Spies once upon a time were very well-educated, as they were very often recruited in places like Oxford and Cambridge. And no, I wouldn't say "from here on in", as it sounds dreadfully old-fashioned, even to me! 

Actually, it would be interesting to know what period the novel (I assume it's either that or a short story) was written (or set) in.


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## CPA

Found it. TV mini-series entitled "The Game", set in 1972. MI5, Cold War, etc. etc. Yes, the two spies probably went to Cambridge.


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## theartichoke

london calling said:


> And no, I wouldn't say "from here on in", as it sounds dreadfully old-fashioned, even to me!



Really? "From here on in" seems to have hung on over here: I use it and hear it without a second thought!


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## citro

Yes, you are right, it's The Game.


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## CPA

Vista l'epoca e la (presunta) estrazione sociale dei soggetti, concordo con "giocare d'astuzia" e "avremo la vita facile".


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## theartichoke

One (possibly!) last thing: given the context that Citro provides--"Due spie che hanno fatto una scoperta importante, devono comunicarla al loro capo e uno dei due però vuole trovare il modo giusto per farlo perché spera in un avanzamento di carriera"--it seems likely to me that the sentence is conditional: 
"[_If ] _we box clever, it'll be honey for tea for us both from here on in."

So, would that then be "*Se* giochiamo d'astuzia..." rather than "Giochiamo d'astuzia..."?


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## CPA

theartichoke said:


> So, would that then be "*Se* giochiamo d'astuzia..." rather than "Giochiamo d'astuzia..."?



Yes, right.


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