# How many countries are there in the world?



## Karavaha

Broken English:
How many countries are there in the world?
Does anybody know the correct number?
I have my own opinion but I will wait...
There is one thing that is interesting for me: what is the criteria for determination a 'country'?
Thanks.

Estoy chapurreando en EspaNol:
Cuantos paises hay en el mundo?
Sabe alguien la cifra correcta? 
En este tema hay mucho que decir. Tengo mi propio opiniOn pero esperarE... A ver... si les interesa.
Me interesa saber cuales son los criterios para determinar un 'pais'.
Muchas gracias.


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## Xerinola

HOla!
Podría ser....¿193?
Según esta página web http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm

Saludos
X.


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## Mei

Hi there,

I don't know how many countries are in the world... everyday you can hear about one more, who knows. But I can tell you what I think you need to be a country: language, culture, history, territory, government and power to reach your own rules. 

I'll wait for more opinions.

Mei


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## Outsider

I suggest starting by looking it up at the Wikipedia, and at the CIA World Fact Book. The UN website may also be helpful.

A word of warning, though: you are likely to run into semantic hurdles regarding what exactly constitutes "a country", even if you just consider independent states.


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## minengiz

hi,
I have read that there are 243 countries in tne world. But the number differs depending on the countries. Because some countries do not recognize some other countries because of political reasons.


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## Karavaha

Xerinola said:


> HOla!
> Podría ser....¿193?
> Según esta página web ...
> 
> Saludos
> X.



Criterio: Naciones Unidas (United Nations). Solo miembros de esta organizaciOn son paises... es posible.
Pero yo siempre pensaba que en el mundo hay mucho mas paises.
Hay otros opiniones?


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## Karavaha

minengiz said:


> hi,
> I have read that there are 243 countries in tne world. But the number differs depending on the countries. Because some countries do not recognize some other countries because of political reasons.



I agree! My criteria is ISO (International Organization for Standardization) that publishes the list of the country names (official short names in English) in alphabetical order as given in ISO 3166-1 and the corresponding ISO 3166-1-alpha-2 code elements. 
Now I cannot give a link to site (don't have permissions).


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## Outsider

Karavaha said:


> Criterio: Naciones Unidas (United Nations). Solo miembros de esta organizaciOn son paises... es posible.
> Pero yo siempre pensaba que en el mundo hay mucho mas paises.


 El criterio usado en el enlace indicado por Xerinola *no es* pertenecimiento a las Naciones Unidas, las cuales tienen sólo 19*2* miembros. Me parece que el sitio hace una buena discusión del problema.


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## Karavaha

Outsider said:


> El criterio usado en el enlace indicado por Xerinola *no es* pertenecimiento a las Naciones Unidas, las cuales tienen sólo 19*2* miembros. Me parece que el sitio hace una buena discusión del problema.



Como he comprendido yo, el criterio es 'Naciones Unidas' + Vaticano. No?
Entonces, cual es el criterio???


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## Alxmrphi

Karavaha said:


> Broken English:
> How many countries are there in the world?
> Does anybody know the correct number?
> I have my own opinion but I will wait...
> There is one thing that is interesting for me: what is the criteria for determination a 'country'?
> Thanks.
> 
> Estoy chapurreando en EspaNol:
> Cuantos paises hay en el mundo?
> Sabe alguien la cifra correcta?
> En este tema hay mucho que decir. Tengo mi propio opiniOn pero esperarE... A ver... si les interesa.
> Me interesa saber cuales son los criterios para determinar un 'pais'.
> Muchas gracias.



It wasn't broken English, it was near perfect.

From about.com


> *By Most Accounts, 193 is the Correct Answer*


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## Outsider

Karavaha said:


> Como he comprendido yo, el criterio es 'Naciones Unidas' + Vaticano. No?
> Entonces, cual es el criterio???


Me imagino que el artículo intenta ser coherente con la definición dada en esta otra página del mismo sitio: Definining an Independent Country.


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## Fernando

Karavaha said:


> Como he comprendido yo, el criterio es 'Naciones Unidas' + Vaticano. No?
> Entonces, cual es el criterio???



Switzerland was out of UN till 2002, but nobody doubts is a state. Other countries (Taiwan, in example) have been excluded or have decided to stay apart from UN. Before UN states existed.

The criteria would be:

- It has an stable territory (no matter how tiny).

- It has an administration.

- It have recognized (de facto or de iure) by a sizable number of States.

I have no doubt Taiwan is a state. United States does not recognize it as a country but it treats it as a country for all practical issues.

Vatican City (or Monaco) is a state since it meets the three criteria.

Western Sahara is not a state since they do not have more than a camp in Algeria territory, their factual rule over some parts of Sahara have ever been temporary and only a few countries recognize RASD as a state.

Maybe in 1800 it would be unclear whether or not some peoples formed an state or not (examples: African and American tribes, some states in Central Asia...). Nowadays the land (and the sea) is almost perfectly shared out.


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## Karavaha

Outsider said:


> Me imagino que el artículo intenta ser coherente con la definición dada en esta otra página del mismo sitio: ...



Bueno... Digamos que el criterio es 'independencia'.
Solo paises independientes son paises de verdad.
Pero vamos, por quE los 'objetos' dependientes no pueden ser paises?
Por ejemplo, por quE no podemos llamar a Puerto Rico como pais?


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## Karavaha

Fernando said:


> The criteria would be:
> 
> - It has an stable territory (no matter how tiny).
> 
> - It has an administration.
> 
> - It have recognized (de facto or de iure) by a sizable number of States.



For example, what about Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, French Polynesia, Guadeloupe, Netherlands Antilles?


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## hohodicestu

I think 193 is the right answer. see more


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## Outsider

There does seem to be a disparity between the terminology used in those articles (American terminology?), and the one I'm used to (European, or continental terminology?)

For example, around here we usually call individualized, but not independent "societies" countries, rather than nations: the Basque Country, the Low Countries, Wales (País de Gales, in Spanish and Portuguese).

Also, I'm used to hearing the word "nation" as a synonym of "state", not of "people/ethnicity", as they say in the article at the About.com site.


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## Fernando

Karavaha said:


> For example, what about Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, French Polynesia?



I do not know the status of Faroe Island but I think it is a dependent territory.

Ditto for French Poynesia. 

Gibraltar has not been recognized for no country as an independent state. For UN is a colony of UK. It should be decolonised and there is a UN resolution that urges UK and Spain to reach an agreement.

It has no control of frontiers, no military personnel, etc.


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## Karavaha

If the word 'country' can be used only for determing independent states how can you explain this:
unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49alpha.htm
and this:
iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/02iso-3166-code-lists/list-en1.html
?


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## Fernando

Karavaha said:


> Por ejemplo, por quE no podemos llamar a Puerto Rico como pais?



Among other things, because PR does not want to be an independent state. Though there is a sizable independist movement, the PR Government has not asked for the separation of US. I think (but I have not checked) they do not have a seat in UN but, anyway, they want (as a whole) to stay as a "ELA" of US.

Other thing was Ukraine, which had a separate seat in UN while it actually was a province of SU.


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## Fernando

Karavaha said:


> If the word 'country' can be used only for determing independent states how can you explain this:
> unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49alpha.htm
> and this:
> iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/02iso-3166-code-lists/list-en1.html
> ?



The problem is "What do you need the list for?" In bancking you should use a far wider list, because many countries have overseas dependencies with lower/higher country risk, legislations, etc. 

As an example, every tiny island in the Caribbean Sea is a separate world. Delaware is a separate world for some purposes. Ditto for Hong Kong, Macau, etc.


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## Karavaha

Fernando said:


> Among other things, because PR does not want to be an independent state. Though there is a sizable independist movement, the PR Government has not asked for the separation of US. I think (but I have not checked) they do not have a seat in UN but, anyway, they want (as a whole) to stay as a "ELA" of US.
> 
> Other thing was Ukraine, which had a separate seat in UN while it actually was a province of SU.



I just want to know why we cannot say 'country' against to dependent 'entities'...


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## Fernando

You can call them "cuchuflastos" if that is your desire, but define the playground. Country has a thousand definitions in English (the same for "países", "naciones" in Spanish). Which is what you want to discuss?

- Country = Sovereign entity, subject of International Law.

- Country = A group of people with certain relation among them. 

etc.


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## Outsider

Yes, you can't be dogmatic about these things. Unless there is a standard academic definition of the term, which I don't think is the case.


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## maxiogee

Blackleaf said:


> even the components of the United Kingdom (such as Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England - sorry folks, they're *not* countries, states, or nation-states).



I was afraid of this


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## Alxmrphi

Do you think they are? I think they should be.


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## maxiogee

I'm a Paddy. I have nothing to say in relation to that.

My only comments would be

Soccer ----------- England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland.
Rugby ------------ England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland.
Olympic games -- Great Britain*, Republic of Ireland
[sisze=2]* that's actually "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" btu the Olympic website just gives GB.[/size]


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## Alxmrphi

But in the world cup those countries are all seperate, right?


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## maxiogee

Alex_Murphy said:


> But in the world cup those countries are all seperate, right?



In which "world cup"?

If you mean the Soccer one, then you'll see I listed the teams which appear from these islands.


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## Julito_Maraña

Puerto Rico has its own Olympic Team and its own Academy of the Spanish Language. People there are very much under the impression that it's a "país" and often talk about how things are going in the country (and they mean Puerto Rico not the US). The formal terms is "Free State Associated to the United States." The term Commonwealth is a North American one. It doesn't do Puerto Rico's status justice.


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## Fernando

Alex_Murphy said:


> Do you think they are? I think they should be.



No matter they should or not they ARE not (in the sense of independent states).

If you want to widen the discussion I do not mind, but include in the discussion the following:

Canary, Castille, Gibraltar, Andalucia-Al Andalus, Catalonia, Leon, Navarre, Asturias, Galicia, Balearic Islands, Açores, Bretagne, Languedoc, Gascogne, Alsace, Lorraine, Bavaria, every German "land", every Swiss "canton", Sicily, Calabria, "Padania", Venice, Milan, Piamonte,...

In all those places you will find a fraction of the population that "feel" they are a country on their own.


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## danielfranco

And don't forget Texas!!!!

"Like a whole other country", so they say!


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## Karavaha

Fernando said:


> No matter they should or not they ARE not (in the sense of independent states).
> 
> If you want to widen the discussion I do not mind, but include in the discussion the following:
> 
> Canary, Castille, Gibraltar, Andalucia-Al Andalus, Catalonia, Leon, Navarre, Asturias, Galicia, Balearic Islands, Açores, Bretagne, Languedoc, Gascogne, Alsace, Lorraine, Bavaria, every German "land", every Swiss "canton", Sicily, Calabria, "Padania", Venice, Milan, Piamonte,...
> 
> In all those places you will find a fraction of the population that "feel" they are a country on their own.



But from all of them only Gibraltar has ISO country code...
Isn't it a difference??


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## Fernando

The only difference is that Gibraltar has a separate banking legislation. If you are trading with  Gibraltar branches that is most useful. 

Gibraltar is in the same level that Man Island, Gernsey, Jersey and so on.

Edit: Other weird countries with ISO code: Aland Island (Sweden-Finland), Aruba (Netherlands), Bouvet Island (??), Christmas Island, Cocos Island, Cook Islands, Falkland/Malvinas, Heard and McDonnel Islands, Marshall, Mayotte, Netherland Antilles, Norfolk, Palestinian Territory, Pitcairn, Saint Pierre et Miquelon, etc.


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## Karavaha

Fernando said:


> The only difference is that Gibraltar has a separate banking legislation...



OK. I suppose it's a kind of independence 

Bueno. Insisto que eso es un clase de independencia  No?


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## Fernando

In a way, it is (fiscal/Company Law independence), but they are far from having the other traditional independence characteristics: foreign affairs, military independence, etc.


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