# Печеньки



## reer

Печенек нет.  

Is печенек a borrowed word?  I can not find it in dictionary.  For "cookie", there is only one entry, печенье → печенья (genitive, singular).


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## Maroseika

Пече́нька, пече́ньки is merely Russian word, colloquial diminutive from печенье.
Печеньки - collective (cookies), печенька - a single item of cookies.


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## igusarov

No, it's not a borrowed word, it's genitive singular form of "пече́нька". It is constructed as "печенье" + diminutive suffix "-еньк" "-к".
You may also encounter other diminutive forms like "печеню́шка" and even "печеню́шечка".
Stylistically, these words convey the sense of "nice little cookie".

Edit:
Misidentified suffix; corrected after the post by Sobakus below.


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## Vadim K

You hardly could hear this word in Russia five years ago. This word has been popularized by Russian propaganda in the wake of the Ukrainian crisis. It was related to the event of giving cookies to Ukrainians by Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland during 2014 Ukrainian revolution. This word is beeing said with scornful tone because it has been supposed by Russian propaganda that Ukrainians sold their country to so-called "Western countries" for a couple of cookies.


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## Maroseika

In the everyday speech this word is used since very long ago, but it really got political implication recently. However it is still widely used in its direct sense, without any subtext.


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## igusarov

Vadim K said:


> This word has been popularized by Russian propaganda in the wake of the Ukrainian crisis.


I thought this word belongs to that specific "nicified" talks which are often associated with children and young girls...


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## reer

Many thanks to you guys.  I love this nearly 3000-page thick dictionary of mine, but when it fails to help much, I know you are always there on the forum.  How reassuring!


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## Vadim K

Maroseika said:


> In the everyday speech this word is used since very long ago, but it really got political implication recently. However it is still widely used in its direct sense, without any subtext.



It may be. But to be honest I never heard this word before 2014 neither in my childhood not in my adolescence year. When my relatives or friends would like to use colloquial diminutive from "печенье" they always used "печенюшки", not "печеньки". But sure other people may use another diminutives.


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## Rosett

Personally, I would never use this terrible word.


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## Sobakus

igusarov said:


> No, it's not a borrowed word, it's genitive singular form of "пече́нька". It is constructed as "печенье" + diminutive suffix "-еньк".


I hope I won't come across as splitting hairs, but the dimin. suffix in this case is _-к-; _otherwise this would be a diminutive of _печь_ with the first syllable stressed.

I can also testify that this terrible  word has long been quite popular in the internet culture as synonymous to the English "candy".


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## igusarov

Sobakus said:


> I hope I won't come across as splitting hairs, but the dimin. suffix in this case is _-к-; _otherwise this would be a diminutive of _печь_ with the first syllable stressed.


Oh, I'm sorry : ) Thank you for the correction!


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> I can also testify that this terrible  word has long been quite popular in the internet culture as synonymous to the English "candy".


I have to make it clear that you refer to a substandard Internet culture.
A standard Russian word on the subject is "печеньице, pl.печеньица," if you are not aware. You may want to comment on it.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> I have to make it clear that you refer to a substandard Internet culture.
> A standard Russian word on the subject is "печеньице, pl.печеньица," if you are not aware. You may want to comment on it.


The word was imported from the standard Russian culture into the substandard Internet one with a slight change in meaning. I used the Internet culture because there, the usage corresponds to the standard English word "candy" meaning "reward of encouragement", as in "no candy for you".

Russian diminutives can be formed at will using various suffixes. Some suffixes may be more frequent in the literature, but that doesn't make the other suffixes non-standard.

The only thing remotely wrong with the word _печенька_ from the POV of the standard language is the fact that _печенье_ is a neuter collective singular, while _печенька_ is a feminine singular, referring to one piece of _печенье. _But this is easily resolved by treating _печенька_ not as a diminutive of _печенье, _but as a stand-alone word with a different denotation and no synonym, therefore filling a linguistic gap by becoming de-facto standard.

Now, the above is _definitely _splitting hairs.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> The word was imported from the standard Russian culture into the substandard Internet one with a slight change in meaning.


The word "_печенька_" is an ugly distortion of standard language_, _just because standard _печенье_ is singularia tantum. You should be aware of that. Nuland was giving out _печенье_, regardless of how many actual pieces were thown at the crowd.
_Печенька_ was apparently coined by Russian emigrants in their isolated circles way before Internet era and never admitted to standard Russian. Nowadays it belongs to low-grade speech that you are advocating for here.
Everyone may want to read more, for example.


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## reer

Two more questions:
1. Why _печенька _is ugly, as it has an original Russian root and follows Russian morphology rules?
2. Besides "pastry, biscuit", does _печенька _also mean "candy, treat" as in "trick or treat"?


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## Maroseika

I'd like to specify, that "ugly" refers to a personal attitude of some natives. For me this word is absolutely not ugly, just colloquial and substandard.
As for your second question, not sure I udnerstand it. Do you mean that печеньки also collectively mean "treat" or "candies"? Yes, печеньки can be used like that (but not печенька).


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## Rosett

reer said:


> Two more questions:
> 1. Why _печенька _is ugly, as it has an original Russian root and follows Russian morphology rules?
> 2. Besides "pastry, biscuit", does _печенька _also mean "candy, treat" as in "trick or treat"?


First, it does not fully comply with morphology rules, unlike _печениьце_. _Печенька_ derives properly from _печь_, not from _печенье_.
Secondly, its meaning has rapidly gone way beyond the original meaning, making it garbage word.


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## reer

I see...  I thought _печенька (_f.pl._печеньки) _was just a diminutive form of печенье (n.collective) and had the same meaning.  Glad this wrong understanding is cleared.


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## Vadim K

Rosett said:


> _Печенька_ derives properly from* печь*, not from _печенье_.



What do you mean by that? Do you mean that "печенька" is just a small furnace?  Or do you mean that both "печенье" и "печенька" derive from the same verb "печь"? Could you please clarify it because it seems that our Chinese counterpart *reer *was completely confused by your message (see below)



reer said:


> I see...  I thought _печенька (_f.pl._печеньки) _was just a diminutive form of печенье (n.collective) and had the same meaning.  Glad this wrong understanding is cleared.


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## Vadim K

reer said:


> I see...  I thought _печенька (_f.pl._печеньки) _was just a diminutive form of печенье (n.collective) and had the same meaning.  Glad this wrong understanding is cleared.



You thought correctly. "Печенька" is just a diminutive form of "печенье". I think *Rosett *meant something else when she wrote her previous message.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> The word "_печенька_" is an ugly distortion of standard language_, _just because standard _печенье_ is singularia tantum. You should be aware of that.


Did you even read my post before replying to it, Rosett? You should have, that's exactly what it addresses.


Vadim K said:


> You thought correctly. "Печенька" is just a diminutive form of "печенье". I think *Rosett *meant something else when she wrote her previous message.


Again, has been mentioned in my previous post, this isn't quite right. _Печенька_ isn't a diminutive of the word _печенье _since it means a different thing. It's a derivational singular of said collective noun, along with _печеню́шка_. The stem in both is _печень-._


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## Rosett

Vadim K said:


> You thought correctly. "Печенька" is just a diminutive form of "печенье". I think *Rosett *meant something else when she wrote her previous message.


According to Russian morphology rules,
_- печенька_ is diminutive form of _печь_ (furnace, cooking stove,) ex.: _печенька муравленная_;
_- печеньице_ is diminutive form of _печенье_ (cookie.)
_Печенька_ is coined from _печенье_ by isolated pseudo-Russian emigrants of Brighton Beach in 1960's, who keep forgetting their Odessa native language every day.

Первое появление — в январе 1968 года в 67-м выпуске эмигрантском журнале «Грани» издательства «Посев»

Второе — в том же тексте в книге Аллы Кторовой «Экспонат молчащий и другое», вышедшей в 1974 году:

"Неужели так-таки вы никогда не тащили у своей мамы с под ключа варенье или печеньки из буфета? Га?"
Here.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> According to Russian morphology rules,
> _печенька_ is diminutive form of _печь_ (furnace, cooking stove,) ex.: печенька муравленная;


The problem here is your bad knowledge of the Russian morphology rules. 

_Печенька _"cookie" consists of the stem _печень- _and the suffix _-к-. _The stem consists of the root _печ- _and the suffix _-ен(ь)-. _A person familiar with the Russian morphology rules knows that words are formed from stems, not roots, and can tell the difference between the two. But who cares about such minor details when you're trying to substantiate your unreasonable hatred for an innocent word, right?


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> The problem here is your bad knowledge of the Russian morphology rules.
> 
> _Печенька _"cookie" consists of the stem _печень- _and the suffix _-к-. _The stem consists of the root _печ- _and the suffix _-ен(ь)-. _A person familiar with the Russian morphology rules knows that words are formed from stems, not roots, and can tell the difference between the two. But who cares about such minor details when you're trying to substantiate your unreasonable hatred for an innocent word, right?


I have to tell you that morphology is not a LEGO-like concept featured here. Existing paradigms in morphology help to delimit acceptable and unaccepatble forms you can be possibly build using LEGO system.
In Russian proper, there almost 50 (47, maybe) word forms that have _(root)-ень_ stem followed by _-е_, and none of them suits "_-ень-к"_ paradigm, except, maybe, by Odessa emigrants before 1968.
You may want to do your home work before arguing further.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> I have to tell you that morphology is not a LEGO-like concept featured here. Existing paradigms in morphology help to delimit acceptable and unaccepatble forms you can be possibly build using LEGO system.
> In Russian proper, there is 54 word forms that have _(root)-ень_ stem followed by _-е_, and none of that suits anything like -ень-к, except, maybe, by Odessa emigrants before 1968.
> You may want to do your home work before arguing further.


If the paradigm you came up with to explain an existing word doesn't work, it means that paradigm is wrong. The word has already been created according to some paradigm or another, and it already means "cookie" and not "little furnace" whether you like it or not. For example, out of all the words in _енье_, none are collective nouns that can't refer to only one piece, therefore there's no such paradigm to speak of. Furthermore, _енье_ is a mostly bookish variant of _ение _which you missed completely.

The paradigm _печенька_ is part of is: *participial/adjectival stem + -ка/-ик*, for example _стоянка, тушонка, дублёнка, продлёнка, вареник, труженик, ученик _and so on. All of those stems give verbal nouns in _-ние, _the only difference being none of them refer to numerous individual pieces when those pieces don't have a corresponding noun, as is the case with _печенье. _Normally, the etymological *ь* in the suffix is dropped due to assimilation with the previous consonant, but here it's kept likely to avoid the (mostly) regular backing of /е/ to /o/ before hard consonants and maintain a contrast with _печёнка_, which, incidentally, is part of the same paradigm and has the same etymology – "a baked thing".

As for your latter suggestion, I guess it's easier to simply be offensive instead of demonstrating a flaw in your opponent's logic. Evidently, my explanations made you feel you didn't do yours properly.

I believe this topic is now thoroughly exhausted, which is why I won't post any further replies. Talk about splitting hairs.


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## Drink

Rosett said:


> _Печенька_ is coined from _печенье_ by isolated pseudo-Russian emigrants of Brighton Beach in 1960's, who keep forgetting their Odessa native language every day.
> 
> Первое появление — в январе 1968 года в 67-м выпуске эмигрантском журнале «Грани» издательства «Посев»
> 
> Второе — в том же тексте в книге Аллы Кторовой «Экспонат молчащий и другое», вышедшей в 1974 году:
> 
> "Неужели так-таки вы никогда не тащили у своей мамы с под ключа варенье или печеньки из буфета? Га?"
> Here.



That's funny, because all the people I know view "печенька" as a new corruption invading the emigrant community from mainland Russia by way of the internet. I guess it came full circle. But then again, I'm not really part of that crazy Brighton Beach community and don't really know too many people from there personally.

Also, if it makes any difference, whenever I have heard this word, I thought it would be spelled "печенько" (i.e. as neuter gender).


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## reer

Thank you very much, everybody.  I have learned a lot more than I expected from this thread.


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