# Jsem si jistý tím



## JGIC

In the textbook I am following, I came across this sentence:

_Jsem si jistý tím, že něco seženeš.
_
I would have rendered this as simply:

_Jsem jistý, že něco seženeš._

Is there a difference in meaning with the "si" and the "tím"?


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi JGIC, great question, simple answer, but just don't ask "why?" 
_
To be sure of something_ (být si něčím jistý) always needs the "si"; "jsem jistý" doesn't sound natural. There is a whole list of examples of its use on this page (source: landigo.cz) and obviously it's _jistý_ if a male is speaking, _jistá _if it's a female.  You also sometimes come across the use of the predicative short form _jist _(instead of _jistý_) for the masculine form. I personally think it's rare for the predicative feminine short form (_jista_, instead of _jistá_) to be used, but I defer to the opinion of the natives on that. So the answer is simple: always include the "si".

The hard bit is "why?", and in general terms I think this reflexive clitic pronoun "si" is another manifestation of the "ethical dative" concept.

This very interesting paper "The Dative Case in Czech: What It Means and How si Fits in" (Laura A. Janda, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; _Selected Papers from the 2003 SVU North American Conference, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 26-28 June 2003_) describes two types of dative: what the author calls _the Dative Receiver_ and _the Dative Experiencer_, and makes the interesting observation on page 7 that _"the Czech language makes a large and consistent investment in the emphatic expression of the benefit to the self of acts that increase comfort, convenience, pleasure, relief, and the like. Among the Slavic languages, only Slovak, which shares the convenience of a Dative reflexive clitic si, shows similar investment in expressions of self-indulgence."  _

"Being sure" might therefore be described as coming in this category of feeling pleasure, relief or comfort, so for want of a better term, we might perhaps describe this use of "si" with _jistý_ as giving emphatic expression to the benefit of the feeling of confidence: a sort of "self-indulgent dative", so to speak. That paper (though it deals with verbs) gives the best explanation I've ever found of this Czech dative "si" insofar as it might apply in the specific context of_ být si jistý_.  I, as a non-native too, am certainly interested to read what the native speaker foreros might have to say about this.


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## Mori.cze

Hi JGIC,

you *can* omit *tím *without changing the meaning (someone may correct me, but I do not feel any difference between both versions),

but you *can not* leave the* si*, it is an integral part of the expression. I am not sure if there is a logic behind, I am afraid you might need just to memorize which expressions take these little pronouns _si _and _se._


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## Mori.cze

Cross posted my reply. Thank you, Enquiring Mind, for the thorough explanation! I like your posts very much, it's always nice to learn a new thing or two on my own language.

As to jist/jista: I feel them both as too archaic to use (worse with feminine), and I generally tend to use archaisms more than enough


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## JGIC

Enquiring Mind, that was a great answer!  Thank you so much!  Now, I'm reading about the ethical dative, lol


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## Mori.cze

You made me to contemplate this question instead of sleeping yesterday night, so to repay the favor I share my findings:

I do not quite concur with the pleasure explanation (of course I may be wrong!). What I believe now is that the "si" denotes the "innerness", subjectivity of the (action) experience. The sentence "*jsem jistá/jistý*" is valid (though not exactly good style), but means "I am granted", not "I am sure". I can imagine saying something like:
"-- Kdo přijde na tvou oslavu? -- *Petr* *je jistý*, ale Pavel se ještě nerozhodl."
"-- Who is coming for your party? -- *Peter for sure*, but Paul has not decided yet."
Weird thing is that in Czech you apparently can not be objectively sure, you can only be sure in yourself/for yourself

What I think this can be compared to is e.g.
"*Vážím tě*" = "I am determining how heavy you are" vs. "*Vážím si tě*" = "I consider you heavy significant -> I value you."
"*Pamatuje* první světovou válku" = "He/she/an object(!) is old enough to have lived through WWI" vs "*Pamatuje si* první světovou válku" = "He/she does literally have memories from WWI"

It was quite hard for me to think about something which is free to append the "si" pronoun without a change in meaning, but I've eventually succeeded with the phrase "*Zlomila jsem (si) lyži*"/"I broke my ski". Now, if you bear with me, the si-version has a touch of emotions (but not pleasure) in my ears (it was my fault, I feel guilty and/or I am really upset or helpless about it), whereas no-si-version I can easily imagine being uttered by a teenage girl with the stereotypical "so-what-I-did-not-want-to-ski-anyway-leave-me-alone attitude".
(Sidenote: you can not break your leg without the "si" part in Czech, which IMO kind of speaks for emotions other than pleasure involved)


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## Enquiring Mind

That's true. Ms Janda doesn't say in the paper that the "si" always implies benefit (p7): _"Whereas expressions of benefit are quite robust with si, harm is very limited and always carries implications of accident or ultimate benefit (through necessary punishment). Harm to a body part is necessarily interpreted as an accident (since otherwise si is an indicator of selfindulgence) in expressions such as: narazit si palec ‘stub one’s toe’, podvrtnout si kotník ‘sprain one’s ankle’, pohmoždit si rameno ‘bruise one’s shoulder’, rozbít si koleno ‘skin one’s knee’, vyvrtnout si prst ‘dislocate one’s finger’, zlomit si nohu ‘break one’s leg’." _ (Admittedly lyže is not a body part, but that's irrelevant here.)

Her paper deals with the use of "si" with verbs, though I don't think that materially affects the connotation of "si", and she goes on to say _"A more subtle expression of benefit comes with the verbs expressing awareness and capability that combine with si, illustrated in 21): cenit si ‘appreciate’, myslet si ‘have an opinion’, považovat si ‘appreciate’, pamatovat si ‘remember’, uvědomit si ‘realize, be aware’, vážit si ‘respect’, vědět si rady ‘know what to do’, všimnout si ‘notice’, vzpomenout si ‘recall’..."  _so maybe this is another category of description in which we can understand the "si" in "jsem si jistý". Although "jistý" obviously isn't a verb, its meaning incorporates the sense of "awareness and capability".

I'm more inclined to interpret the "si" in "zlomila jsem (si) lyži" (I've broken my ski, one of my skis is broken, one of my skis has broken), as a *dative of possession*, where the short-form dative pronoun (mi, ti, si, mu, jí etc.) is the normal way to expression possession (rather than by using můj, tvůj, etc. to convey the English my, your, his etc.) - I've broken my ski. We don't (normally) say "zlomila jsem svou lyži".  

There's another useful paper here  (source: cokdybysme.net) for foreign learners of Czech which says _"__Czech makes particular use of the dative reflexive pronoun si to indicate that the agent or subject is the recipient of the verb’s effect." _If I've broken my ski, then I suppose I am the recipient of the effect of my ski breaking, so that would support your explanation.

There's (yet) another very useful paper [unfortunately the url link doesn't work in some browsers, but you can search for it**] ("Anglické protějšky českých zájmenných předmětů dativních" - a bachelor's thesis by Helena Fišerová - Univerzita Karlova v Praze; Filozofická fakulta; Ústav anglického jazyka a didaktiky - 2013) which describes these Czech datives in several categories (pp 10-11) _A. Dativ prospěchový (commodi et incommodi): Dative of advantage and disadvantage B. Dativ zřetelový (respectivus): Dative of reference 11 C. Dativ subjektový: Dative of subject D. Dativ přivlastňovací: Possessive dative E. Dativ etický (sdílnosti): Ethical dative, which can be further divided into Dativ emocionální: Affective dative; Dativ kontaktový: Dative of contact; Dativ zainteresování: Dative of engaging interest; ... dativ náladový (“dative of mood”).
_
So getting back to the original poster's context of "jsem *si* jistý", we intrinsically know or feel (jsme *si* vědomi ) in all these expressions that the "si" (almost always, in normal circumstances) needs to be there, but deciding which particular type of dative it might be is perhaps more of an art than a science!
[@ JGIC: Well I did say _just don't ask "why?"_ ]

**[If you are using a Chrome browser, you may be able to download the text: klikněte *si   *the download button at the bottom of this page.]


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