# more different from



## Joseph A

Hello everyone,
Could you please help me choose the correct answer?
Do you know life in this area is............life in small villages?
A. differ than    B. more different from     C. most different       D. most difficult
I go for "B".


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## Franco-filly

B. is the best of those given but I wouldn't word a sentence that way myself.


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## lingobingo

Have you written it correctly? None of those work.


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## Linkway

If you think "B", what is the "more" comparing with?


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## Joseph A

Franco-filly said:


> B. is the best of those given but I wouldn't word a sentence that way myself.


Thanks a lot.
Could you please tell me how you word it?


lingobingo said:


> Have you written it correctly? None of those work.


Thanks a lot.
Yes, I've written it correctly. It's one of thr questions in the national examination in my region. Should it be "more different than"?


Linkway said:


> If you think "B", what is the "more" comparing with?


Thanks a lot.
The "more" is comparing with "life in small villages".


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## dojibear

"More different" is comparing 2 differences. 1 of them is "more different" than the other.

"More different" is not comparing 2 things. That is "different".

Life in small villages is different than life in this area.  
Life in small villages is more different than life in this area.


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## lingobingo

None of the comments in #5 alter the fact that the question doesn’t make sense. What is the sentence even supposed to be saying? And since it’s framed as a question, why does it have no question mark?

Do you know life in this area is differ than life in small villages. 
Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages. 
Do you know life in this area is most different life in small villages. 
Do you know life in this area is most difficult life in small villages.


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## dojibear

"Do you know" is a question. It changes a statement into a question.

In speaking, people sometime introduce a statement with "Do you know..." or "Did you know...". 

But those 3 word are not part of the statement. In writing, they must be written separately, not as part of the statement sentence.


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## lingobingo

Of course. But if it were meant as a statement in an English test, why on earth would the examiners add “Do you know” in that way? 

It’s also rather suspicious that nothing like this question can be found online.


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## Enquiring Mind

I think the short answer here is almost certainly that the test wasn't devised by English native speakers, so the English is more different from   what we'd normally say.


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## Joseph A

dojibear said:


> "More different" is comparing 2 differences. 1 of them is "more different" than the other.
> 
> "More different" is not comparing 2 things. That is "different".
> 
> Life in small villages is different than life in this area.
> Life in small villages is more different than life in this area.


Thanks a lot.


lingobingo said:


> None of the comments in #5 alter the fact that the question doesn’t make sense. What is the sentence even supposed to be saying? And since it’s framed as a question, why does it have no question mark?
> Do you know life in this area is differ than life in small villages.
> Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages.
> Do you know life in this area is most different life in small villages.
> Do you know life in this area is most difficult life in small villages.


Thanks a lot.
Please look at the picture below:



dojibear said:


> "Do you know" is a question. It changes a statement into a question.
> 
> In speaking, people sometime introduce a statement with "Do you know..." or "Did you know...".
> 
> But those 3 word are not part of the statement. In writing, they must be written separately, not as part of the statement sentence.


I missed out the question mark, but I copied the rest correctly.


lingobingo said:


> Of course. But if it were meant as a statement in an English test, why on earth would the examiners add “Do you know” in that way?
> 
> It’s also rather suspicious that nothing like this question can be found online.


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## Joseph A

Enquiring Mind said:


> I think the short answer here is almost certainly that the test wasn't devised by English native speakers, so the English is more different from   what we'd normally say.


Thanks a lot.


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## lingobingo

OK. So it really is that bad in the original. What can we say? If you have to take the test and have to give an answer, use B – but only because it’s not quite so wrong as the alternatives!


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## Joseph A

lingobingo said:


> OK. So it really is that bad in the original. What can we say? If you have to take the test and have to give an answer, use B – but only because it’s not quite so wrong as the alternatives!


Thanks a lot, lingobingo.


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## Joseph A

Excuse me native speakers. You said, "more different from" isn't the correct choice. Why is it possible and correct in the following picture?


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## lingobingo

That’s an entirely different statement. It’s fine to say that two things “*couldn’t be more different*!”. It’s an idiomatic way of emphasising how different things (or people) are from each other.


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## Joseph A

lingobingo said:


> That’s an entirely different statement. It’s fine to say that two things “*couldn’t be more different*!”. It’s an idiomatic way of emphasising how different things (or people) are from each other.


Thanks a lot, lingobingo.


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## taked4700

Excuse me. 
But "Do you know life in this area couldn't be more different from life in small villages?" is idiomatic, isn't it?

Is this understanding of mine right?


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## lingobingo

taked4700 said:


> But "Do you know life in this area couldn't be more different from life in small villages?" is idiomatic, isn't it?


No. It’s far from idiomatic. What is that “Do you know” doing there?

This is much more typical:

Living in the city is very different from living in a small village, as I did when I was a child. The two lifestyles could not be more different!​


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## taked4700

Thank you, Lingobingo.
But honestly speaking, I am at a loss how to interpret your post #19.

"Do you know life in this area couldn't be more different from life in small villages?"

1. I cannot think of anything wrong with "Do you know" being with the sentence above.
2. Are you telling me that the sentence is too long  or compricated to be idiomatic?  
3.  Or your point of view is whether or not the sentence comes along with your ordinarily way of expressing the same sort of idea, isn't it?

Thank you in advance.


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## Joseph A

Excuse me native speakers of English.
I have another two questions.
1. If I use "couldn't be more different from" in the original sentence, will it be okay as follows?
Do you know life in this area *couldn't be more different from *life in small villages?
2. If I reword my original post as follows, will "is more different from" be okay?
Do you know life in this area is *more different from*  small villages?


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## Joseph A

dojibear said:


> "More different" is comparing 2 differences. 1 of them is "more different" than the other.
> 
> "More different" is not comparing 2 things. That is "different".
> 
> Life in small villages is different than life in this area.
> Life in small villages is more different than life in this area.


Excuse me dojibear,
1. Why did you reverse the words in the sentence? The original was as follows?
*Do you know *life *in this area *is more different from *life in small villages?*
2. Why did you omit "Do you know"?
3. If I use "is different from" as follows, will it be okay?
Do you know life in this area *is different from *life in small villages?


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## lingobingo

I’m still wondering what the function of “Do you know” is in that strange OP sentence, and whether it’s meant as a question. 

By all means let’s discuss “different from” (or than, or to) and the idiom “couldn’t be more different” (= are remarkably different), but forget the stuff in the OP, which appears to have been written by someone with a very poor command of English.


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## Joseph A

lingobingo said:


> I’m still wondering what the function of “Do you know” is in that strange OP sentence, and whether it’s meant as a question.
> 
> By all means let’s discuss “different from” (or than, or to) and the idiom “couldn’t be more different” (= are remarkably different), but forget the stuff in the OP, which appears to have been written by someone with a very poor command of English.


Thanks a lot, lingobingo.
It "Do you know" is meant as a question. It's perfectly natural in my mother tongue. I don't know why it's not okay in English! Is it okay to use "couldn't be more different from" instead of "is more different from" in the OP as follows?
Do you know life in this area *couldn't be more different from* life in small villages?


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## lingobingo

Of course you can ask “*do you know* [something]?”, but the OP question is extremely weird. The likelihood of anyone ever having cause to ask something that way is virtually nil.  It does not merit discussion. as I said:


lingobingo said:


> By all means let’s discuss “different from” (or than, or to) and the idiom “couldn’t be more different” (= are remarkably different), but forget the stuff in the OP…


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## Joseph A

lingobingo said:


> Of course you can ask “*do you know* [something]?”, but the OP question is extremely weird. The likelihood of anyone ever having cause to ask something that way is virtually nil.  It does not merit discussion. as I said:


Thank you, lingobingo.
Please give me a "yes" or "no" answer. Is the OP okay if I include "couldn't be more different from" instead of "is more different from"?
Do you know life in this area *couldn't be more different from* life in small villages?
Please🙏


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## lingobingo

Life in this area couldn't be more different from life in small villages.​
This makes sense and is reasonably idiomatic – as a statement, not a question. What it _means_, as I’ve tried to explain (see #16 and #19), is that there’s a very considerable difference between the two lifestyles.


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## Joseph A

lingobingo said:


> Life in this area couldn't be more different from life in small villages.​
> This makes sense and is reasonably idiomatic – as a statement, not a question. What it _means_, as I’ve tried to explain (see #16 and #19), is that there’s a very considerable difference between the two lifestyles.


Thanks a lot, lingobingo.


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## Forero

Joseph A said:


> Hello everyone,
> Could you please help me choose the correct answer?
> Do you know life in this area is............life in small villages?
> A. differ than    B. more different from     C. most different       D. most difficult
> I go for "B".


Only B makes any sense. "Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?" is a valid sentence, but it really needs context to tell us what other difference is being compared with.

A, C, and D do not make valid sentences, in any context.


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## lingobingo

Forero said:


> "Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?" is a valid sentence


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## taked4700

Thank  you very much, Lingobingo and Ferero.


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## Joseph A

Forero said:


> Only B makes any sense. "Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?" is a valid sentence, but it really needs context to tell us what other difference is being compared with.
> 
> A, C, and D do not make valid sentences, in any context.


Thanks a lot, Forero.
Indeed, if I translate this sentence (Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?) into my mother tongue, it is natural and correct. In the above sentence, "life in this area" is compared with "life in small villages".


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## Forero

Joseph A said:


> Thanks a lot, Forero.
> Indeed, if I translate this sentence (Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?) into my mother tongue, it is natural and correct. In the above sentence, "life in this area" is compared with "life in small villages".


That is not what this English sentence does. It has to be comparing the difference between life in "this area" and life in "small villages" to some other difference, not explicitly stated. ("More different" is the comparative form of "different".)


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## Joseph A

Forero said:


> That is not what this English sentence does. It has to be comparing the difference between life in "this area" and life in "small villages" to some other difference, not explicitly stated. ("More different" is the comparative form of "different".)


Thanks a lot, Forero.


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## Myridon

Joseph A said:


> Thanks a lot, Forero.
> Indeed, if I translate this sentence (Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?) into my mother tongue, it is natural and correct. In the above sentence, "life in this area" is compared with "life in small villages".


Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages (than it (life in this area) is different from a banana.)
X is more different than Y than A is different than B. We can assume that A is also X, but there's no way to guess what B is.


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## Edinburgher

Myridon said:


> X is more different than Y than A is different than B. We can assume that A is also X, but there's no way to guess what B is.


This is an example where the AE "different *than*" is particularly confusing.  In BE we don't say that.  "Than" goes with comparatives, and "different" is not a true comparative.  Here it will be much less confusing to use another preposition instead:
_X is *more* different from Y *than* A is {different} from B._  Here the "from"s are prepositions, and the "than" is a conjunction.  In Myridon's original version with three "than"s, two are prepositions and one (the middle one) is a conjunction.
The meaning is that the difference between X and Y is *more than* (or is *greater than*) the difference between A and B.


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## Roxxxannne

Edinburgher said:


> This is an example where the AE "different *than*" is particularly confusing.  In BE we don't say that.  "Than" goes with comparatives, and "different" is not a true comparative.  Here it will be much less confusing to use another preposition instead:
> _X is *more* different from Y *than* A is {different} from B._  Here the "from"s are prepositions, and the "than" is a conjunction.  In Myridon's original version with three "than"s, two are prepositions and one (the middle one) is a conjunction.
> The meaning is that the difference between X and Y is *more than* (or is *greater than*) the difference between A and B.


I (and many people I know who live in other parts of the US)  say 'different from.'


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## Edinburgher

Roxxxannne said:


> I (and many people I know who live in other parts of the US) say 'different from.'


Good for you!  
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to tar you all with the same brush by implying that all Americans say "different than".
But many of you do, and I think anyone who does is likely to be American (or American-influenced).


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Edinburgher said:


> This is an example where the AE "different *than*" is particularly confusing.  In BE we don't say that.



"Different than" is a common error in American English; as you note the correct form is 'different from."  On the other hand, there is an equally common error that speakers of British English do say: _different *to*, _as in "_Hong Kong was very *different to* the modern city it is today_ " (an example drawn from today's _Sun_, regarding a series of photographs taken in the 19th Century) or "T_he reality of living in Australia is very *different to* the dream_" (from the _Telegraph_, June 14, 2018.)  The use of either of these incorrect forms (as opposed to the correct "different from") is another quick way of telling whether a writer is British or American.


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## lingobingo

Oxford quite likes it:

Different from, different than, and different to: are there any distinctions between these three constructions, and is one more correct than the others? In practice, *different from* is both the most common structure, both in British and US English, and the most accepted. *Different than* is used chiefly in North America, although its use is increasing in British English. It has the advantage that it can be followed by a clause, and so is sometimes more concise than different from: compare *things are definitely different than they were a year ago* with *things are definitely different from the way they were a year ago*. ​
But I don’t.


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## Roxxxannne

Edinburgher said:


> Good for you!
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to tar you all with the same brush by implying that all Americans say "different than".
> But many of you do, and I think anyone who does is likely to be American (or American-influenced).


  Apology accepted!


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## Joseph A

Myridon said:


> Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages (than it (life in this area) is different from a banana.)
> X is more different than Y than A is different than B. We can assume that A is also X, but there's no way to guess what B is.


Thanks a lot, Myridon and the other members.
I have a question for all of you. You said "is *more* different from" is wrong. If I use "is different from", will it be okay as follows?
- Do you know life in this area *is different from *life in small villages?


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## Forero

Joseph A said:


> Thanks a lot, Myridon and the other members.
> I have a question for all of you. You said "is *more* different from" is wrong. If I use "is different from", will it be okay as follows?
> - Do you know life in this area *is different from *life in small villages?


It is an unusual question, but it makes sense. Unfortunately, "different from" was not one of the choices given.


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## taked4700

Hi,
I just tried interpreting this thread.

"Do you know life in this area is more different from life in small villages?"
is a weird sentence.

Because "X is more different from Y" means X is different from A and Y is different from B,  but the degree of difference of X to A surpasses that of Y to B. 
Example:
"Bananas are more different from cars." could mean "Bananas are different from apples, and cars are different from spaceships, but the difference between bananas and apples is far more large than that between cars and spaceships."
So  the original sentence is asking what has not yet formed a completed meaning.
In other words, the original is asking something like "Do you know Tom is more large than this cat?", which would imply that Tom is larger than Ken and this cat is larger than that one, but the degree of largeness of Tom goes ahead of that of this cat.

Am I right?


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## Edinburgher

taked4700 said:


> Am I right?


Yes, almost.  You would expect "X is more different from Y" to make a comment on the difference between X and Y, and to mean that this difference is bigger than some other difference, such as that between A and B.

In your bananas and cars example, this means that the difference between bananas and cars is greater than that between apples and spaceships (assuming this latter difference has previously been mentioned).  When you "do the math" (as Americans say), this actually implies that the difference between bananas and apples is actually much less than that between cars and spaceships.

Your comparison with "more large than" is not a good one, because "more large" just means "larger", and it is perfectly meaningful to say that Tom is larger than his cat.  It might work if you phrased it as "more *larger* than", but this would usually be treated as an error and it would be better to express the whole idea differently.

The problem with "more different" is specific to the word "different", which in this respect differs from "normal" adjectives like _large_ and _small_, in that _different_ already includes a comparison, whereas _large_ and _small_ don't (at least not directly).


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## taked4700

Thank you, Edinburgher.

From the view point of evolution, I'd like to say that the time span that took place between bananas and apples would be an order of thousand years while that of cars and spaceships would be less than a hundred years.

Let me make sure one thing. 

I guess the following sentences would be idiomatic.
1. Tom is more outgoing than friendly.
2. Tom is more tall than thin.
The reason that makes those two sound idiomatic is as follows:
They are comparing two adjectives, so the thing that matters is which adjective more fits in with the context. 
This is the reason you use "more" to make a comparative, not adding 'er'.

But the next is not idiomatic.
3. Tom is more tall than Ken.
The reason that makes 3. unidiomatic is as follows:
Tom is taller than Miller,  and Ken is taller than Miller.  But Tom is taller than Ken, 
In this context the measure is tallness alone and there is no reason to use "more" to make comparative.

I would like to sleep on if there is an idiomatic way to say 3.  But maybe I would sleep like a log so it would be impossible for me to think of that.
I expect a help.


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## Joseph A

Forero said:


> It is an unusual question, but it makes sense. Unfortunately, "different from" was not one of the choices given.


Thanks a lot.


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## Edinburgher

taked4700 said:


> From the view point of evolution, I'd like to say that the time span that took place between bananas and apples would be an order of thousand years while that of cars and spaceships would be less than a hundred years.


If that's what you want to do, then using a "more different than" construction is not the best way to go about it.  You would probably say "I*t took longer* for bananas to evolve into apples *than it took* cars to evolve into spaceships".


> I guess the following sentences would be idiomatic.
> 1. Tom is more outgoing than friendly.
> 2. Tom is more tall than thin.
> The reason that makes those two sound idiomatic is as follows:
> They are comparing two adjectives, so the thing that matters is which adjective more fits in with the context.
> This is the reason you use "more" to make a comparative, not adding 'er'.


 Yes, but in principle you could also say_ Tom is taller than he is thin_.  You can't do that with the other sentence because "outgoinger" does not exist.


> But the next is not idiomatic.
> 3. Tom is more tall than Ken.
> The reason that makes 3. unidiomatic is as follows:
> Tom is taller than Miller, and Ken is taller than Miller. But Tom is taller than Ken,
> In this context the measure is tallness alone and there is no reason to use "more" to make comparative.


The problem here is that from the simple sentence "Tom is more tall than Ken" we cannot deduce that you are comparing Tom's and Ken's height with Miller's, because Miller has not been mentioned.  If you did want to say what you have described in different words, then you could say the following: _Tom is taller than Miller *by more than* Ken is._ Or you could say: _Tom and Ken are both taller than Miller, *but Tom more so*._


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## taked4700

Thsnk you, Edinburgher.
One thing that I'm afraid I could not get:
Tom is taller than he is thin. 
The grammar taught in Japan would not go with the above sentence.
Or, is it something like the difference between AE and BE?
Thank you in advance.


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## Edinburgher

Nothing to do with AE/BE.
It means that Tom has two attributes:  He is tall and he is thin.  Perhaps both attributes are more pronounced than average: He is taller than average and he is thinner than average.  What the sentence tells us is that his tallness deviates from the average more than his thinness does.  I believe that is what you meant by "Tom is more tall than thin."

It would not be very sensible to say "Tom is taller than thin", because you can't directly compare tallness with thinness - they are completely different qualities.  But you can compare them indirectly by seeing how far they differ from their respective standards.  He is only a little bit thinner than average but very much taller than average.

I only said you could say this "in principle".  In practice it would not be something one would be likely to say.


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## taked4700

Thank you, Edinburgher.
Let me ask one more.

Tom is more of a child than a father.
I guess it is grammatical.
Then how about "Tom is more childish than a father."?
Thanks in advance.


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## Edinburgher

taked4700 said:


> Tom is more of a child than a father.
> Then how about "Tom is more childish than a father."?


The first sentence is fine.  Tom is a father, but is also child-like, and this says that his child-qualities are more apparent than his father-qualities.

The second sentence is not good.  You shouldn't compare an adjective with a noun.
The sentence sounds like something that I don't think you mean: it seems to be comparing Tom (who is not necessarily a father) to a non-specific typical father, and assumes that fathers generally have a certain amount of childishness, and says that Tom's childishness is more than that of a typical father.
This potential misunderstanding can be resolved by adding "he is", to give "Tom is more childish than he is a father", but this is similar to the construction that you had difficulty with earlier ("taller than he is thin"), and is probably best avoided.  It's confusing for other reasons, because it invites the reader to make the mental leap from "being a father" to "having the qualities one expects of a father" (being sensible, serious, and not childish).


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## taked4700

Thsnk you, Edinburgher.
I must say you are more of a teacher than a contributor.
Thank you very much again,
taked4700
P.S.
Comparative is hard to understand.  I have a hunch that I am reaching a milestone on the long way to go to acquire the intuition on how to use Comparative.


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## RM1(SS)

taked4700 said:


> Because "X is more different from Y" means X is different from A and Y is different from B, but the degree of difference of X to A surpasses that of Y to B.


Not necessarily.  No need to add B into it.

"X is different from A.  X is more different from Y."
"A is different from Y.  X is more different from Y."


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## taked4700

Thank you, RM1.
I just thought of a sentence.
1.  Tom is more different from a dog than Ben is from an ant.
And one more:
The opposite to "different" is "like",
2. Tom is more like a dog than Ben is like an ant.
I guess those are idiomatic.

But I am confused:
3. Tom is more different from a dog than Ben.
4. Tom is more like a dog than Ben.
I think 3. and 4. are ambiguous. 
But adding "is" to the end will delete the ambiguousness.
5. Tom is more different from a dog than Ben is ( from a dog).
6. Tom is more like a dog than Ben is (like a dog).

But I wonder  if it is idiomatic or not:
7.  Tom is more different from a dog than an ant.
8. Tom is more like a dog than an ant.
I guess 7. and 8. are not ambiguous so that they are idiomatic.
Am I right?
Thanks in advance.


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## Edinburgher

taked4700 said:


> I think 3. and 4. are ambiguous.


Correct.





> But adding "is" to the end will delete the ambiguousness ambiguity.


Correct.


> 7. Tom is more different from a dog than an ant.
> 8. Tom is more like a dog than an ant.
> I guess 7. and 8. are not ambiguous


I'd say they are potentially ambiguous. Tom could differ more from a dog than he does from an ant, or he could differ more from a dog than an ant does.


> so that they are idiomatic.


That doesn't follow.  Something can be idiomatic even when it is ambiguous, or non-idiomatic even when it is not ambiguous.
On the whole such multi-comparisons with "more different" are not very idiomatic, in the sense that people are not very likely to use them.  They can be very confusing.  This seems to be less of a problem when you use "more like".


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## taked4700

Thank you, Edinburgher.
As  you have pointed out, there seems to be little chance to use that construction.
But please understand that learners of English are apt to explore the deep forest, the deeper the more enthusiastic.


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## Edinburgher

You can perhaps take solace from the fact that there is a limit to how far you can go into the forest.  It's half way.  Once you're in the middle, no matter in which direction go, you are going out of the forest.


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## taked4700

Thank you, Edinburgher.
Once outside of the deep forest of English, I would or might be pleased to be able to see the sky.  You can tell which direction is right by seeing the sun or moon.
Thanks again,
taked4700


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