# EN: de ne pas + infinitif passé



## newg

Hello 

Pris d'une grosse crise de doute, je me permets de reposer la question.
How do I have to translate these sentences :

_Il regrette de ne pas être venu._
_Il est heureux de pas avoir perdu ses clés._

I would propose : 

_He regrets not to have come._
_He is happy not to have lost his keys._

I have sometimes trouble translating this idea... If you can validate or invalidate my attempts it would be great !

Thanks so much


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## A-class-act

Je pense si on met "not" avant "to",la phrase aura un autre sens .


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## newg

A-class-act said:


> Je pense si on met "not" avant "to",la phrase aura un autre sens .


 
Et je la mets où la négation?


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## A-class-act

He regrets to not have come.
"Wait for a native response."


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## newg

A-class-act said:


> He regrets to not have come.
> "Wait for a native response."


 
Non, cette phrase est fausse.


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## Tim~!

In English we follow _regret_ with _-ing_ forms rather than the infinitive.

Try again using _-ing_, and I think you'll come up with the correct answer


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## Tim~!

newg said:


> Et je la mets où la négation?


Il n'y a aucune raison pour craindre mettre la négation entre _to_ et le reste du verbe.  

La loi que l'on ne peut séparer _to _et l'infinitif ne reste que quelquechose d'artificiel que nous imposent des grammariens qui voudraient que les règles du latin s'appliquent aussi à l'anglais.

Cela n'est pas le cas et il est devenu très naturel et acceptable que l'on met la négation entre les deux parties.


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## lrosa

*He regrets not having come.* 
*He's happy not to have lost his keys*. 
 Je suis d'accord avec Tim qu'il ne faut pas éviter le _split infinitive_, mais en ce cas-ci, ça me semble lourd de dire "He is happy to not have lost his keys". J'aurais une petite préférence pour "He's glad that he didn't lose his keys" mais ta phrase est absolument parfaite


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## geostan

_He regrets not to have come. _This is not natural English. There are several ways to phrase this. The most straightforward way is to say: _He regrets not coming_ or _He is sorry for not coming._ The past infinitive is not as commonly used as in French, although it is correct. You might also use a clause: _He is sorry he didn't come. 

_ _He is happy not to have lost his keys. _This sentence is fine, but again, I suspect most people would use a clause: _He is happy he didn't lose his keys._


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## newg

Ok thanks so much  
I was wondering if I could use an _-ing_ form and Tim answered my question 

Could I say : 
_He's happy not losing his keys?_ 
I know I could have said _He is happy he didn't lose his keys _but I wanted to create another sentence


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## geostan

newg said:


> Ok thanks so much
> I was wondering if I could use an _-ing_ form and Tim answered my question
> 
> Could I say :
> _He's happy not losing his keys?_
> I know I could have said _He is happy he didn't lose his keys _but I wanted to create another sentence



If I were to use this structure, I would say:

He's happy *at* not losing his keys. I think you need the preposition. Only in front of a clause does the preposition disappear.


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## newg

Ok, thanks a lot geostan


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## lrosa

I'd just been thinking about this. You can't use the "ing" form with _to be_ because "He's happy not losing his keys" would mean "He's happy when he's not losing his keys", just as "He's happy playing tennis" would mean "He's happy when he's playing tennis", *not* "He's happy to have played tennis." I think the "ing" form only works with the verb _to regret_ because it's kind of impossible to regret something in the present or future  Therefore the past tense is implied.


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## newg

I see your point. 
But I couldn't say : 
_He is not happy at not playing tennis yesterday?_ 
To mean _He is not happy he didn't play tennis yesterday?_
I am a little bit confused  I am sorry.


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## lrosa

Actually I would much prefer "He's happy about...", which is more idomatic than "He's happy at..."

Then yes, you can certainly say "He's not happy about not playing tennis yesterday", although the double use of _not_ sounds a little funny. I'd say: "He's not happy about missing tennis yesterday" or "He's sorry to have missed tennis yesterday."


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## newg

Ok thanks  
Another question ! :x 
You said : 


> "He's sorry to have missed tennis yesterday."


 
Is it possible to say :
_He is sorry for missing tennis yesterday._


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## lrosa

I was hoping you wouldn't ask...  The thing is, we play around with prepositions so much (at, about, for, etc...) that it's actually hard for me to figure out what sounds right and what doesn't. But ok, I would say:

He is sorry at having missed tennis yesterday  ("He regrets that he missed tennis yesterday")
He is sorry at missing tennis yesterday  ("at missing" just doesn't sound clear enough)

He is sorry for missing/having missed tennis yesterday  (*But* this means "He is sorry (apologetic) that he missed tennis yesterday", because to be "sorry for" means to apologise for)

He is sorry about missing/having missed tennis yesterday  (This could actually mean either "He regrets" or "He apologises for" because to be "sorry about" can have either of these meanings)


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## geostan

newg said:


> Ok thanks
> Another question ! :x
> You said :
> 
> 
> Is it possible to say :
> _He is sorry for missing tennis yesterday._



Yes.

And re: Irosa's preference for _about_ rather than_ at_, to each his own, but I don't think one is more idiomatic than the other. It might just depend on where you live.


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## lrosa

Perhaps, geostan, but a Google search for "I'm sorry about losing" brings 410 returns, while "I'm sorry at losing" returns 0...


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## newg

lrosa said:


> He is sorry for missing/having missed tennis yesterday  (*But* this means "He is sorry (apologetic) that he missed tennis yesterday", because to be "sorry for" means to apologise for)
> 
> He is sorry about missing/having missed tennis yesterday  (This could actually mean either "He regrets" or "He apologises for" because to be "sorry about" can have either of these meanings)


 

The thing is now that I don't understand why "missing" and "having missed" can be used interchangeably... It's really confusing for me :s
Is it a matter of preposition? 

I have learned that the -ing form expressed the past and that it was not necessary to repeat it by adding "having + pp" 
Isn't it too redundant to say for instance : 

_I'm sorry for not having come yesterday._
Instead of 
_I'm sorry for not coming yesterday._

I'm really sorry to be insistent.


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## geostan

lrosa said:


> Perhaps, geostan, but a Google search for "I'm sorry about losing" brings 410 returns, while "I'm sorry at losing" returns 0...



But I didn't say _sorry at_; I said _happy at_.

And a check on Google shows numerous examples of it.


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## lrosa

Don't worry yourself 

I suppose you could say it's redundant, but it doesn't do any harm! I would happily say "_I'm sorry for not having come yesterday._" There's no difference between this and the other alternative you mentioned, although "He's sorry for not coming" is admittedly far more common. Google gives 6 results for "I'm sorry for not having come" and 3,020 for "I'm sorry for not coming"!

Incidentally, I did find one search return for "I'm sorry at *having lost*," which is interesting because for some reason it does seem much clearer to me to say "sorry at having done..." than "sorry at doing..." In this case, the use of "having done..." seems to serve a purpose.


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## A-class-act

newg said:


> Hello
> 
> Pris d'une grosse crise de doute, je me permets de reposer la question.
> How do I have to translate these sentences :
> 
> _Il regrette de ne pas être venu._
> _Il est heureux de pas avoir perdu ses clés._
> 
> I would propose :
> 
> _He regrets not to have come._
> _He is happy not to have lost his keys._
> 
> I have sometimes trouble translating this idea... If you can validate or invalidate my attempts it would be great !
> 
> Thanks so much


When I told you,"he's happy to not have lost his keys",what was going in my mind is that someone can ask :why is he happy? ,and you will response 
he is happy to not have lost his keys;so the reason for his happiness is due to not have lost his keys.
Hope I was clear.


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## lrosa

geostan said:


> But I didn't say _sorry at_; I said _happy at_.
> 
> And a check on Google shows numerous examples of it.



There are indeed numerous examples, but are these followed by "ing" verbs? I think I know what troubles me about _at_; it's because if you said "He's happy at playing tennis", for example, it would be unclear to me whether you meant "He's happy about having played tennis" or "He's happy while playing tennis" (as in "He's happy at his job").


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## newg

It's clear now  
No more questions ^^ 
Thanks so much lrosa and the others of course


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## A-class-act

Am-I besides the point????


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## geostan

lrosa said:


> There are indeed numerous examples, but are these followed by "ing" verbs? I think I know what troubles me about _at_; it's because if you said "He's happy at playing tennis", for example, it would be unclear to me whether you meant "He's happy about having played tennis" or "He's happy while playing tennis" (as in "He's happy at his job").



For me, it could only be the equivalent of_ about_. But there is no point belabouring the issue. Both are correct.


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## lrosa

A-class-act said:


> he is happy to not have lost his keys;so the reason for his happiness is due to not having lost his keys.



"He is happy to not have lost his keys" means the same as "He is happy not to have lost his keys."


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## merquiades

Excellent ideas for you!  I always learnt that regretter was best translated by the verb to wish and switching the verb from negative to positive....  He wishes he hadn't come... For the second sentence I also would suggest making a clause instead of an infinitive... He is glad he didn't lose his keys... We'll see what others think.


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## afbyorb

_I'm sorry for not having come yesterday.  __I'm sorry for not coming yesterday

_Both are correct.


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## A-class-act

Thank you Irosa..


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## autap6

I would say:

I regret not having come
I am happy/glad (that) I did not lose my keys


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## lefrancophile

newg said:


> The thing is now that I don't understand why "missing" and "having missed" can be used interchangeably... It's really confusing for me :s
> Is it a matter of preposition?
> 
> I have learned that the -ing form expressed the past and that it was not necessary to repeat it by adding "having + pp"
> Isn't it too redundant to say for instance :
> 
> _I'm sorry for not having come yesterday._
> Instead of
> _I'm sorry for not coming yesterday._
> 
> I'm really sorry to be insistent.



"I'm sorry I didn't come yesterday" OR "I'm sorry I didn't drop by"

You can say "I'm sorry about not coming yesterday" but it would more likely just be "I'm sorry about that" since the other person will have already mentioned it.

In almost all of these instances, it's just easier in English to repeat the subject with "didn't".

I'm sorry I didn't do anything.
He's happy he didn't try.
etc.


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