# To fuck one's way into



## Lorena1970

Buongiorno a tutti,

Chiedo lumi su questa espressione: "to fuck one's way into" (a  whatever professional field ).

"She fucked her way into journalism. She's always been very ambitious"

Secondo quanto ho trovato significherebbe "farsi strada con ogni mezzo" ma forse ha un significato  più forte?
Grazie


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## kloie

If I'm not mistaken it is said about a person who is not qualified but still gets a job or a higher position at a job and also we say to suck and f*** one's way;another one we use for celebrities is to get on the casting couch.


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## Pietruzzo

Maybe "Si è fatta strada a gomitate"


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## Lorena1970

kloie said:


> If I'm not mistaken it is said about a person who is not qualified but still gets a job or a higher position at a job and also we say to suck and f*** one's way;.



I think this is the meaning, considering the person to whom this comment was addressed to. I was wondering if it suggest the use of improper means to get a job or if it hasn't necessarily that nuance and simply refers to those with no talent that do whatever in order to stand out and show themselves to be successfull.

Scuse per il warn: ero in treno e dovevo scendere...


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## kloie

Lorena1970 said:


> I think this is the meaning, considering the person to whom this comment was addressed. I was wondering if it suggest the use of improper means to get a job or if it hasn't necessarily that nuance and simply refers to those with no talent that do whatever in order to stand out and show themselves to be successfull.
> 
> Scuse per il warn: ero in treno e dovevo scendere...


Correct for example Sandra sucked and fu..ed her way to management.
And for the casting couch one for example Sandra is ugly you know she had to get on the casting couch.


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## sorry66

I thought the expression wasn't specific - you can say 'lie on the casting couch' too - the term 'casting couch' in itself says all you need to know about the situation - it can be used in various ways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_couch

For the OP - make no mistake - the person in question got the job or position she wanted in return for sexual favours.


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## Lorena1970

sorry66 said:


> For the OP - make no mistake - the person in question got the job or position she wanted in return for sexual favours.



So this is the explicit meaning..? She got the job in exchange of sexual favors ?


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## Pietruzzo

I


sorry66 said:


> I For the OP - make no mistake - the person in question got the job or position she wanted in return for sexual favours.


In that case ha fatto strada nel giornalismo a furia di darla via. Speaking of which, maybe also the fuck in the thread title could deserve a warn


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## sorry66

Lorena1970 said:


> So this is the explicit meaning..? She got the job in exchange for sexual favors ?


Yes.


Pietruzzo said:


> Speaking of which, maybe the fuck in the thread title could deserve a warn also deserves a warning sign


Yes!


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## Lorena1970

Bene, grazie a tutti. Mi sembrava una battuta pesante e infatti...era proprio pesante!!! (ovviamente io conosco il contesto, per questo dico così!)


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## rrose17

Ciao, just to add that I doubt you'd say "She fucked her way into journalism" it's much too general, unless of course she slept with the admissions officer at the university to get into the journalism faculty. More likely would be "She fucked her way into the position she has at Such-and-such newspaper" or "She fucked her way up the ladder". Also, I'm sure it's the same in Italian that this tends to be a very sexist comment, and one that would probably never be made of a man.


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## sorry66

I was assuming that 'journalism' meant her 'journalistic career' - not the study of it.
She made it up the career ladder by virtue of her attractiveness. When people say things like the OP about women, they don't necessarily believe that the woman has really given sexual favours but they think her attractiveness has played some part in her success. Of course, it's very sexist, as you say.


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## Lorena1970

sorry66 said:


> I was assuming that 'journalism' meant her 'journalistic career' - not the study of it.
> She made it up the career ladder by virtue of her attractiveness. When people say things like the OP about women, they don't necessarily believe that the woman has really given sexual favours but they think her attractiveness has played some part in her success. Of course, it's very sexist, as you say.


All Exact, included the sexist opinion, although I tend to think that it's not that sexist and instead a rude sentence to express the idea of a not-talented person that, being very nice and charming, was able to easily seduce those who were empowered of something. Personally I would say" If they accepted it, they were not better than her". But this is about personal opinions which are apart from my work. 




rrose17 said:


> Ciao, just to add that I doubt you'd say "She fucked her way into journalism" it's much too general, unless of course she slept with the admissions officer at the university to get into the journalism faculty. More likely would be "She fucked her way into the position she has at Such-and-such newspaper" or "She fucked her way up the ladder". Also, I'm sure it's the same in Italian that this tends to be a very sexist comment, and one that would probably never be made of a man.



If you want the exact sentence I am dealing with, pronounced by a reliable person (man), native BE, that was "She fucked her way into architecture"


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## Pietruzzo

sorry66 said:


> Speaking of which, maybe the fuck in the thread title could deserve a warn also deserves a warning sign
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction


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## AlabamaBoy

For the record, the f-word is very offensive in America, I have only heard "to sleep one's way to the top" or something similar. Never with the f-word.


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## Lorena1970

Pietruzzo said:


> maybe also the fuck in the thread title could deserve a warn



Non è possibile.


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## london calling

AlabamaBoy said:


> For the record, the f-word is very offensive in America, I have only heard "to sleep one's way to the top" or something similar. Never with the f-word.


It's offensive in the UK too, but I notice it's used more and more (on both sides of the pond....).


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## Lorena1970

london calling said:


> It's offensive in the UK too, but I notice it's used more and more (on both sides of the pond....).


 Una frase davvero pesante pesante.....non pensavo, credevo fosse più light.....


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## chipulukusu

_She screwed_ _her way to the top_ sounds slightly more British, to my ears. And only apparently less crude.


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## Lorena1970

chipulukusu said:


> _She screwed_ _her way to the top_ sounds slightly more British, to my ears. And only apparently less crude.


My sentence was pronounced by a person who is inglese purosange. "screwed" è solo meno pesante, non meno inglese. E non mi risulta essere un termine offensivo. E' solo la "F" word, così come la "C" word, ad essere offensiva.


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## london calling

I am also more used to hearing 'screwed'. And I agree with Chip: it's less crude, but it's still a nasty thing to say (and it sounds even worse when you use the f-word). As others have said, it's the meaning behind the expression which is offensive, even if you use 'sleep' instead of the other two words (if you use them the expression is even more offensive and crude).


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## sorry66

Lorena1970 said:


> y sentence was pronounced by a person who is inglese purosange.


I'm not sure what you mean here, but whoever said the OP was being very rude and crude - even if it was intended as humour. To suggest that someone 'slept their way to the top' is bad enough in itself (even if it has elements of truth to it) but using the f-word makes that ascension more graphic and is, therefore, more demeaning to the woman who's being insulted.


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## Lorena1970

sorry66 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean here,



I mean that the person who pronounced it is absolutely British and civilized, i.e. that it would be impossible they use a non-British expression. (in response to Chip that was saying that "screwed" is a more BE term). I hope it's clear now.


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## london calling

Lorena1970 said:


> I mean that the person who pronounced it is absolutely British and civilized, i.e. that it would be impossible they use a non-British expression. (in response to Chip that was saying that "screwed" is a more BE term). I hope it's clear now.


The person might be absolutely British, but as to whether s/he is 'civilised' is a personal opinion. I wouldn't expect a civilised person to use the word 'fuck' or even suggest that a woman slept her way to success (even if it's true). As far as I'm concerned whoever said this is was being rude and crude, as Sorry says.


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## Lorena1970

london calling said:


> whoever said this is was being rude and crude, as Sorry says.



Questo di sicuro!


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## Pietruzzo

What's a bit confusing about this expression is that we have different interpretations from natives


kloie said:


> it is said about a person who is not qualified but still gets a job or a higher position at a job


Ha fatto carriera giocando sporco 
Ha fatto carrera non si sa come



sorry66 said:


> the person in question got the job or position she wanted in return for sexual favours


Ha fatto carriera a letto/dandola via/facendo la zoccola, in increasing order of rudeness



sorry66 said:


> they don't necessarily believe that the woman has really given sexual favours but they think her attractiveness has played some part in her success.


Ha fatto carriera col suo bel faccino("and the rest" is understood)


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## sorry66

@Pietruzzo 
We're all saying it's about performing sexual acts to get promotion. 
You only part-quoted kloie.
In the second statement that you quoted from me I was talking about people maligning someone who they think has  used her looks to get promotion - she may not even have done it deliberately, but her good looks had an effect. 
Using the OP statement to describe such a person is a malicious exaggeration. They don't believe she has slept with anyone for promotion but they are saying it out of malice or a perverted sense of humour.


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## Lorena1970

@Pietruzzo
E' chiaro lampante che significa "_si è scopata l' esercito pur di far carriera_" Poi che un forero cerchi di farlo capire in modo soft perché non ha l'abitudine ad essere esplicito o che un altro lo dica chiaramente (come Sorry66), poco cambia. Il senso è quello ed è ciò che io volevo sapere. Non ci sono metafore, non ci sono "alleggerimenti". Dopodiché, se questa lo ha fatto davvero o se la frase è pronunciata per denigrare la persona (e cmq un certo senso di verità c'è, data la pesantezza della frase), poco importa (almeno e me). Il significato è letterale e non è sostituibile da altri termini, né significa nulla di diverso. La risposta del post#9 di Sorry è lampante.  "screwed" NON è la stessa cosa, etc.etc.etc.
Per quanto mi riguarda: grazie a tutti!


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## giginho

Al di là del fatto che stiamo scivolando sul pendio del considerare chi asserisce (con un fondo di verità) una cosa del genere uno incivile piuttosto che pensare tutto ciò di chi lo ha fatto, credo che la traduzione proposta da Lorena nel suo post 28 sia la migliore e mi ha strappato un sorriso.


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## Lorena1970

giginho said:


> Al di là del fatto che stiamo scivolando sul pendio del considerare chi asserisce (con un fondo di verità) una cosa del genere uno incivile piuttosto che pensare tutto ciò di chi lo ha fatto, credo che la traduzione proposta da Lorena nel suo post 28 sia la migliore e mi ha strappato un sorriso.



Ricordata di getto.....mi sa che l'ho sentita da qualche parte!  Un sorriso di prima mattina è un buon inizio!


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## london calling

Lorena1970 said:


> @Pietruzzo
> E' chiaro lampante che significa "_si è scopata l' esercito pur di far carriera_" Poi che un forero cerchi di farlo capire in modo soft perché non ha l'abitudine ad essere esplicito o che un altro lo dica chiaramente (come Sorry66), poco cambia. Il senso è quello ed è ciò che io volevo sapere. Non ci sono metafore, non ci sono "alleggerimenti". Dopodiché, se questa lo ha fatto davvero o se la frase è pronunciata per denigrare la persona (e cmq un certo senso di verità c'è, data la pesantezza della frase), poco importa (almeno e me). Il significato è letterale e non è sostituibile da altri termini, né significa nulla di diverso. La risposta del post#9 di Sorry è lampante.  "screwed" NON è la stessa cosa, etc.etc.etc.
> Per quanto mi riguarda: grazie a tutti!


Guarda che 'screwed'/scopato) è esattamente la stessa cosa di 'fucked' , è solo leggermente (e dico leggermente....) meno volgare.


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## MR1492

sorry66 said:


> I was assuming that 'journalism' meant her 'journalistic career' - not the study of it.
> She made it up the career ladder by virtue of her attractiveness. When people say things like the OP about women, *they don't necessarily believe that the woman has really given sexual favours but they think her attractiveness has played some part in her success*. Of course, it's very sexist, as you say.



I understand the statement above but don't necessarily agree with it.  It varies, of course, but it is often believed that sexual favors were traded for success.

Phil


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## Lorena1970

MR1492 said:


> I understand the statement above but don't necessarily agree with it.  It varies, of course, but it is often believed that sexual favors were traded for success.
> 
> Phil



Honestly, I tend to agree with you. I understand that it's a rude comment, but I also see it as simply saying what it was. I think that rarely if a woman really express her talent, people use this idiom to describe her. I think that they may say something like "She's good and clever, but she's also nice so that may have helped...." specially out of Italy. But when someone is sure, by his/her point of view, that a woman has reached a high position ONLY OR MAINLY because she is sexy and available and because she was DETERMINED TO BE SOMEONE, LED BY AMBITION AND CALCULATION, so I think that sentence is unavoidable. And given that me too I know that person, I have good reasons to think that she wanted money and and a visible position without being that talented. And she got it by marrying different people all of which were quite influential personalities.............


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## sorry66

MR1492 said:


> It varies, of course, but it is often believed that sexual favors were traded for success.


We don't know the person in question.  (Well, now, Lorena  has told us something about her. So we do know!).
For all we knew, it could have been an 'understatement' or an 'overstatement'. The point I was making in the post you quote ( and my later post # 27 ) is that it could have been just a purely sexist comment. 
It wouldn't be the first time a man maligned a woman by commenting on her sexuality - often in a dismissive attempt to reduce her whole person to a sexual being. 
What's more, the OP uses the word 'f##k' instead of 'sleep' and that gives emphasis to the carnal aspect, as if the speaker is disgusted with the woman in question and can only think of her in pornographic terms. 
I'm tempted to say that if a man 'f##ks around' it's all to his glory - and saying that would actually be pertinent here as the OP expression (and the more usual and milder 'sleeping one's way to the top') is more often said of women than of men.


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## MR1492

I don't disagree with you, sorry66.  While you were addressing the specifics of the OP, I was saying that the statement you made was not universally applicable but did apply in the individual case you were discussing.  Perhaps I wasn't clear enough and, if so, I'm sorry for any confusion my comment may have caused.

Phil


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## sorry66

@MR1492 
I didn't intend it to be 'universally applicable'! I can't claim to know whether people actually believe what they say! I was just discussing possibilities.


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