# It's I vs It's me



## sb70012

Hi,

Suppose that i am knocking the door. If the owner of the house says "Who's that?"

Then i should say : It's me or Its i ?


Many thanks in advance.


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## Liam Lew's

Hi, I think "it's me" is correct.


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## JustKate

"It's I" is more grammatical, but almost nobody actually says it that way. Nearly everybody, including nearly everybody who cares about grammar, would say "It's me."

Note that the pronoun _I_ is always capitalized.


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## Keith Bradford

Don't trust anyone who says "It's I".  They are pretentious and probably in league with the devil.


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## sb70012

Thank you very much Justkate.

Thank you Keith.

Keith do you agree with Justake?


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## Beryl from Northallerton

Here's a previous thread on same subject (It is I / me). Post#3 is a portal to many more. Please search first: Tips on searching the forum: (Click) 

*ADDED*: In this case I'm in league with Keith Bradford.


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## Keith Bradford

sb70012 said:


> ... do you agree with Justake?




Not even.  I don't believe it _is_ more grammatical in modern English, I believe it's archaic (and worse).


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## sb70012

Thank you very much guys.

Thanks for your prompt answer.


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## JustKate

Keith Bradford said:


> Not even.  I don't believe it _is_ more grammatical in modern English, I believe it's archaic (and worse).



Archaic? Nah. But gosh, it does sound pretentious and pedantic to an amazing degree.


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## Beryl from Northallerton

It sounds American to me. 

I don't even see how JustKate could agree with post#3.


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## e2efour

"... if you knock on my door and I call out _Who is it?_, you, as a normal person, knowing that I would recognize your voice, would say _It's me_.  If you said _It is I_, I would     not be nearly so inclined to let you in.  _It is I_ is an extremely formal usage, encouraged by really old-fashioned prescriptivists but not seriously used these days by anyone except the unbearably affected." (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000777.html)

In my view, the above just about sums it up.


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## JustKate

"Unbearably affected" is the _mot juste_.


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## Hau Ruck

I have two answers for this question. One answer is "me" the other answer is "I". 

I would say the 'correct' (mind you I don't believe there is a truly _correct _answer here) is 'I'. 
Suppose you reconstruct this as:
"Who's that knocking at my door?"
"I am knocking at your door." (not "Me is/am knocking at your door.")
I am doing the knocking. I knock. I have knocked upon your door. I, I and I. 

That being said, I'd most assuredly say, "me/it's me". Saying "it is I" (or just "I") does sound snooty and pretentious. My dad always used to say, "It is I", and it drove me nuts. 

So, I believe the 'correct' answer is "I"; but I would never say such a thing. Idiomatically I believe "me" to be the correct choice.


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## lucas-sp

Wait wait wait. The question is about _It's I / It's me_, not about _It is I / It's me_.

If we are going to be archaic/pretentious/affected/posh/etc. enough to use _I_, we will also _not contract the "It is." _For that reason, _"It's I_" is an unbearable mix of registers (compare to "Whom are you guys talking about?"). _It's I_ is unthinkable, even for people who would say _It is I_​.

Also note that house owners normally say "Who's _there_?" If the house owner says "Who dat?", your most proper response is to say "I love New Orleans."


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## Packard

Keith Bradford said:


> Don't trust anyone who says "It's I". They are pretentious and probably in league with the devil.


I'm both those things, but I recall a teacher saying is/are takes the nominative case.  That would be "I".  "Me" would be the accusative case.

When receiving a phone call and asked, "I'd like to speak with Packard" I would reply, "This is he."  ("Is" takes the nominative case.)


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## Beryl from Northallerton

Filsmith said:


> I have two answers for this question. One answer is "me" the other answer is "I".
> 
> I would say the 'correct' (mind you I don't believe there is a truly _correct _answer here) is 'I'.
> Suppose you reconstruct this as:
> "Who's that knocking at my door?"
> "I am knocking at your door." (not "Me is/am knocking at your door.")
> I am doing the knocking. I knock. I have knocked upon your door. I, I and I.
> 
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> That being said, I'd most assuredly say, "me/it's me". Saying "it is I"  (or just "I") does sound snooty and pretentious. My dad always used to  say, "It is I", and it drove me nuts.
> 
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> So, I believe the 'correct' answer is "I"; but I would never say such a  thing. Idiomatically I believe "me" to be the correct choice.



In what sense could you describe something as being correct if you would 'most assuredly' never say it?


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## Hau Ruck

Beryl from Northallerton said:


> In what sense could you describe something as being correct if you would 'most assuredly' never say it?



'Correct' _grammatically. _As is life, we often don't speak the way we should. Every single one of us is guilty of saying something a certain way (that is not necessarily _grammatically_ 'correct') because we don't like the sound of the 'correct' way.

That's why we specify 'grammatical' and 'idiomatic' at times; they often differ in spoken languages, which I'm sure you know.


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## Beryl from Northallerton

See, I don't think it's grammatically correct; and if it's not a part of your language, then how can it be?

It's the sort of thing that was once beaten into children; but then so was the 'need' to be right handed when being right handed was considered 'correct' - I think this so-called nominative case of 'I' is only correct in this latter sense, which is probably why people don't seem to like it so much.


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## bluegiraffe

lucas-sp said:


> Also note that house owners normally say "Who's _there_?" If the house owner says "Who dat?", your most proper response is to say "I love New Orleans."



A BE/AE difference?  I'd say "Who is it?"


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## Hau Ruck

Beryl from Northallerton said:


> See, I don't think it's grammatically correct; and if it's not a part of your language, then how can it be?
> 
> It's the sort of thing that was once beaten into children; but then so was the 'need' to be right handed when being right handed was considered 'correct' - I think this so-called nominative case of 'I' is only correct in this latter sense, which is probably why people don't seem to like it so much.



Sorry. All I can offer up in the way of a reply is my examples/explanation from my previous post as well as Packard's retort. It very well could be a BE/AE 'thing'.

Packard, Kate and I all seem to think it's 'I' where as the BE crowd seems to drother 'me'.


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## Packard

Having read all the comments above I've decided not to say, "It's me" or "It is I". From hence forward I will say, "This is Packard".

Caller: _May I speak to Packard

_Packard: _This is Packard. Elocute. 

_or 

_This is Packard. Articulate._


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## RM1(SS)

lucas-sp said:


> Wait wait wait. The question is about _It's I / It's me_, not about _It is I / It's me_.
> 
> If we are going to be archaic/pretentious/affected/posh/etc. enough to use _I_, we will also _not contract the "It is." _For that reason, _"It's I_" is an unbearable mix of registers (compare to "Whom are you guys talking about?"). _It's I_ is unthinkable, even for people who would say _It is I_​.



I would say "It is I."  I might even contract it - but if I did, it would be "'Tis I," not "It's I."


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## Beryl from Northallerton

RM1(SS) said:


> I would say "It is I."  I might even contract it - but if I did, it would be "'Tis I," not "It's I."



Obviously knocking at the door of the Disney Castle again.


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## lucas-sp

bluegiraffe said:


> A BE/AE difference?  I'd say "Who is it?"


"Who is it?" is definitely also possible. The OP had "Who's that?", which isn't quite right for the situation described.

There's absolutely no BE/AE difference here. Both in AE and BE, "It is I" is considered highly _formal_. This is because of an ongoing propaganda campaign that, believing that English can and should be structured around the rules of Latin grammar, teaches us that "It is I" - the Latin or case-language equivalent - is more correct than "It is me." In AE and BE, "It's me" is seen as the common, normal, everyday form. This is because that's what people say in our non-case-language, and in other non-case-languages that historically informed the development of English. (Compare to French: "C'est moi," yes, and never "C'est je.")

I'm not going to say that the ongoing belief that "It is I" is _more_ _correct_ and not simply a _more formal_ variant is based in linguistic chauvinism. But I'm certainly going to imply it. Basically, the argument presumes that Latin grammar is _more grammatical_ than other kinds of grammars, and then makes proscriptions for English use based on that decision.

Think about it - how would you fill in the blanks here?





> _​Yes, officer - that's ____ . That's the woman who stole my purse! It was ____ , I know it was!_


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## ALEX1981X

Hi all

I'd need to reopen this thread because I'm curious to know what is the right way to say "this is me" or "this is her"...etc..etc.. while pointing a finger in a picture for instance

What I know is that in a situation like above one would naturally say "*this is me*" or "*this is her and me*" but I really want to know if "this is I" and "this is she and I" might work and are correct as well.
My impression is that the latter is absolutely correct from a grammar point of view but not very used nowadays among native English speakers yet I'm still not 100% sure.

What version do you usually use in everyday speech natives?

Thanks guys


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## mexerica feliz

ALEX1981X said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'd need to reopen this thread because I'm curious to know what is the right way to say "this is me" or "this is her"...etc..etc.. while pointing a finger in a picture for instance
> 
> What I know is that in a situation like above one would naturally say "*this is me*" or "*this is her and me*" but I really want to know if "this is I" and "this is she and I" might work and are correct as well.
> My impression is that the latter is absolutely correct from a grammar point of view but not very used nowadays among native English speakers yet I'm still not 100% sure.
> 
> What version do you usually use in everyday speech natives?
> 
> Thanks guys



I've never heard_ It is I _used in speech,
expect for that Leclairc character from the sitcom 'Allo Allo (He would always greet people with:_ It is I, Leclerc!_).

On the other hand,
I've seen/heard things like  _''It's you and I''_ in modern pop songs.



> _It's you and I_, God has made us fall in love, it's true, I've really found someone like you.


Stevie Wonder

In song lyrics _you and I_, and _me and you _are neutralized:

it's for you and I, so we can fly/ it's for you and me, we can be free
you and I can see the sky/ me and you can invent something new
it's you and I, we'll never die / it's you and me, can't you see?

analyzing song lyrics:
_it's for me and you, it's for you and me, it's for you and I_   (_it's for I and you _is unheard of)
_it's me and you, it's you and me, it's you and I_  (_it's I and you_ is almost non-existent)
_me and you can make a move,  you and me can make a move, you and I can make a move_ (_I and you can make a move_ is extremely rare)


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## velisarius

Keith Bradford said:


> Don't trust anyone who says "It's I".  They are pretentious and probably in league with the devil.




Everyday speech you say?
Pointing at a photo I'd say "That's me." 
"Now where is the photo of my sister and me?" " Ah there it is - that's me and her together in Athens."


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## Hau Ruck

ALEX1981X said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'd need to reopen this thread because I'm curious to know what is the right way to say "this is me" or "this is her"...etc..etc.. while pointing a finger in a picture for instance
> 
> What I know is that in a situation like above one would naturally say "*this is me*" or "*this is her and me*" but I really want to know if "this is I" and "this is she and I" might work and are correct as well.
> My impression is that the latter is absolutely correct from a grammar point of view but not very used nowadays among native English speakers yet I'm still not 100% sure.
> 
> What version do you usually use in everyday speech natives?
> 
> Thanks guys




My rule of thumb is that you take out the other person and that gives you the answer. (my rule of thumb, mind you)

Example:

"This is her and *me*." vs. "This is her and *I*."
When you drop 'her' from the sentence you just have me/I.  
So try it out both ways.
"This is me."  vs. "This is I". 
Therefore (the way I was taught), "This is her and me" is the best choice. That's how I was taught. People have different preferences and some will agree, some will disagree; I like the way that I was taught and it always works.


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## Andygc

I'm always slightly amused by the "it is I"/"it is he" argument. "It's grammatical because 'to be' takes the nominative, not the accusative". I studied Latin at school, but I don't speak it. Why does anybody believe that Latin grammar applies to English? The only people who say "it is I" and "it is he" are those who had pseudo-grammar drummed into them at school. It is a concept that belongs in the same out-tray as not ending sentences with prepositions, and never splitting infinitives.


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## ALEX1981X

To me "This is I" in the context provided is correct because it is the same as "*I* am this guy/*I*'m the one here"..at least I think this is a logical explanation
Exactly like _"This is *I* who is shown here in the picture"_.

Surely I'd vote in a split second for "this is me" or "this is her and me" as you suggested guys but I'd like to know whether from a formal grammar point of view "This is I" is gramatically wrong

This is what's nagging me right now


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## Loob

I'm sorry, Alex - if you said _"This is *I* who is shown here in the picture"_, people would laugh at you.


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## ALEX1981X

Loob said:


> I'm sorry, Alex - if you said _"This is *I* who is shown here in the picture"_, people would laugh at you.



Yes for sure. I don't want to try this version  I know it is awkward Loob

But could you just tell me if it is right or not? _This is I_ and_ this is she and I_?


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## Andygc

ALEX1981X said:


> I'd like to know whether from a formal grammar point of view "This is I" is gramatically wrong


It depends on whose grammar you want to believe: Latinate prescriptivists, or people who recognise that English ain't Latin. I think it's grammatically wrong.


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## Loob

Yes - "This is I" is grammaticalg grammatically wrong. No native English speaker would ever naturally say it.


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## ALEX1981X

Loob said:


> Yes - "This is I" is grammaticalg grammatically wrong. No native English speaker would ever naturally say it.



Yes but I think there's a rule which states that since "This" is the subject and "is" is a linking verb , in theory, only a subject pronoun must be used, i.e. I


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## Andygc

ALEX1981X said:


> Yes but I think there's a rule which states that since "This" is the subject and "is" is a linking verb , in theory, only a subject pronoun must be used, i.e. I


See post #29. This rule is a fiction. *We do not speak Latin.*


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## JustKate

I can't quote a rule for you - though I'll be surprised if someone doesn't come along soon who can - but I agree with Loob that "This is I" is just wrong wrong wrong. I cannot imagine a native speaker using it.


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## ALEX1981X

Andygc said:


> See post #29. This rule is a fiction. *We do not speak Latin.*


Ok andy

So would you say that if somebody calls you and you say "Who is speaking?" then the answer "*This is I/She*" is plain wrong or just that it is not the way that English speakers nowadays speak?

My doubts raised from here guys: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/it-is-i-versus-it-is-me

Thanks again


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## Keith Bradford

OK, since we're quoting Latin, let's quote French as well (bear with me, moderators).

A. Latin uses the nominative after the verb _esse_.
B. French uses the emphatic after the verb _être_.
C. Therefore English must use XXXX after the verb _to be_.

Logically, what makes anyone put 'the nominative' in place of XXXX? Why not the emphatic (= me)? Why not ask what they do in German? Or Anglo-Saxon? Or Old Norse? Or Ancient Greek?

Because once you can show one exception to the Latin rule, all bets are off. English isn't after all derived mainly from Latin, it's approximately half-French and half-German. The only rule by my book is what I expressed in #4.


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## Andygc

ALEX1981X said:


> Ok andy
> 
> So would you say that if somebody calls you and you say "Who is speaking?" then the answer "*This is I/She*" is plain wrong or just that it is not the way that English speakers nowadays speak?
> 
> My doubts raised from here guys: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/it-is-i-versus-it-is-me
> 
> Thanks again


As I said:





Andygc said:


> It depends on whose grammar you want to believe: Latinate prescriptivists, or people who recognise that English ain't Latin. I think it's grammatically wrong.


If you read the whole thread you will find some posts from people who say "This is he". I also wrote 





> The only people who say "it is I" and "it is he" are those who had pseudo-grammar drummed into them at school. It is a concept that belongs in the same out-tray as not ending sentences with prepositions, and never splitting infinitives.


Yes, in my opinion, it's just plain wrong.


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## Loob

I think you should re-read the thread from the start, Alex.


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## ALEX1981X

Loob said:


> I think you should re-read the thread from the start, Alex.



I've just done this Loob

And I've noticed that some natives still use that version and that "It's I " is an ancient rule not taken into account in everyday speech  neverthless I'm confused.

Would you say this: It's *me* who have to thank you or It's *I* who have to thank you?


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## Loob

I would say
_(1) It's me who has to thank you._
or, much more formally, (and therefore much less likely)
_(2) It is I who have to thank you._
I'm sure there's a previous thread about this - I'll try to find it.


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## Hau Ruck

ALEX1981X said:


> Would you say this: It's *me* who have to thank you or It's *I* who have to thank you?



Just remember, if you want to sound 'native' then it's best to not sound pretentious. "It is I" just sounds pretentious and holier-than-thou.    Stick with "me" and don't worry about specifics.


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## JustKate

ALEX1981X said:
			
		

> I've just done this Loob
> 
> 
> And I've noticed that some natives still use that version and that "It's I " is an ancient rule not taken into account in everyday speech  neverthless I'm confused.




"It is I" is still used - rarely - but "This is I" is not, at least not as far as I know. Both are examples of a construction that is seldom used these days, but "It is I" has just hung on a little longer for certain extremely limited uses that has "This is I." There's no rhyme or reason to this that I know of, it's just the way it works. 

It's kind of like the subjunctive. A lot of people don't use it much at all any more, but there are a few constructions (e.g., "If I were you") where it often shows up even in the speech of people who otherwise ignore the subjunctive or don't even know it exists. 

I think that's the case here. Some people still use "It is I" when they want to sound very, very proper, but I don't know anybody, no matter how pedantic or proper, who uses "This is I." Whether it was ever considered truly correct, I don't know. But it isn't any more.


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## funnyhat

ALEX1981X said:


> I've just done this Loob
> 
> And I've noticed that some natives still use that version and that "It's I " is an ancient rule not taken into account in everyday speech  neverthless I'm confused.
> 
> Would you say this: It's *me* who have to thank you or It's *I* who have to thank you?



In this specific case, you could use either - but if you use the first, it should be "It's me who has" and not "It's me who have," because the subject of the sentence is _it_.

This is a simplification but basically, if you only use "I" when it is the subject of a sentence and use "me" everywhere else, you'll be fine. 

(In the sentence "It is ______," *It *is the subject*.)*


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## Hau Ruck

funnyhat said:


> This is a simplification but basically, if you only use "I" when it is the subject of a sentence and use "me" everywhere else, you'll be fine.
> 
> (In the sentence "It is ______," *It* is the subject.)




Well that's just it, many would not.  

Example: "The villian is I" vs. "the villian is me".  Most would say "the villian is me".


"_____ is I" just sounds pretentious to many and it's losing popularity over the years.


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## Oeco

The problem, of course, is that this is a *predicate *nominative. It = I. But since the pronoun follows the verb and in most other instances the case which follows the verb is objective, "It is I" hurts our ears/boggles our minds. Hau Ruck has explained the grammar very well indeed. Should we use it thus? Uh, no! Nor would him. Nor would me!


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## Hau Ruck

Oeco said:


> Should we use it thus? Uh, no! Nor would him. Nor would me!



haha. Well played indeed.


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## Loob

Here's the thread I was thinking of in post 43: It's you who has to do it.


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## funnyhat

Hau Ruck said:


> Well that's just it, many would not.
> 
> Example: "The villian is I" vs. "the villian is me". Most would say "the villian is me".
> 
> "_____ is I" just sounds pretentious to many and it's losing popularity over the years.



I'm not quite sure what you mean by "many would not" but I think we are in agreement here.  I would never say "The villain is I" either.

In general, nowadays if people use "I" where it doesn't function as the subject of a sentence, it sounds unnatural (regardless of whether it is technically correct).


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## Andygc

funnyhat said:


> (regardless of whether it is technically correct).


Please can we get away from this "technically correct" thing? It is not technically correct.  It is a spurious application of the grammar of a dead language to a living language. English is derived from many sources, each with its own grammar. Virtually none of English is derived directly from Latin. Why, therefore, should any part of Latin grammar affect English grammar? Merely because a minority of Britons thought learning Latin essential and Latin grammar in some way superior? We have more in common with French and German than with Latin. Do they have this 'rule'? No.


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## PaulQ

I could not agree with Andygc more. 

A: "Who's/Who is making that noise!
B(i): "Me, [thee], him,her,us,them." <- the *subjective emphatic* form (Compare French _'moi', 'lui',_ etc.)
B(ii): "I am, [thou art], he/she is,we are,they are. <- elliptical form of <Subjective case pronoun> + verb.

The above are really the only acceptable forms.

A: "I hate travelling on trains... sitting there for hours and hours, it's boring."
B: "Your opinion is irrelevant. It is I who am going on a train, not you." <- artificial and periphrastic. A _normal _person would say, "Your opinion is irrelevant. I'm the one who's going on a train, not you." or informally, "It's me who's going on a train, not you."



__________________________________________________________

Between 1982 and 1992, there was a BBC TV comedy series called "'Allo, 'Allo!". "'Allo, 'Allo!" was set in wartime France. One of the comic French characters in the series was Monsieur Ernest LeClerc. He would always introduce himself by saying *"It is I, Le Clerc!"* This cause much hilarity as the sentence is clearly one that would only be used by a foreigner who 
(i) had learned English from a book and had never been to Britain.
(ii) slavishly followed the erroneous rule "To be is followed by the pure nominative."
(iii) was mistranslating the French emphatic pronoun _'moi'_ with the English "I" instead of the English emphatic "me".


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## terence77

It's me is the correct.


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