# Does Hebrew have diphthongs?



## rushalaim

Are those diphthong in Hebrew?
יוֹם
לָיְלָה
בַיִת
מַיִם
שָׁמַיִם
יְרֻשָׁלַיִם

Perhaps, every dual is diphthong, I mean, dual is the late invention like Canaanite-shift? For example, Egyptian has dual only for body parts: eyes, ears, arms, legs, breasts. (Hebrew has dual for buttock also  as תחתיו for example)


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## GeriReshef

As far as I know - no, at least in the following context:
the word בַיִת is divided in Hebrew into 2 Syllables: בַ & יִת. The combination of a & i in this case (bait) is not treated as one diphthong but as 2 vowels.


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## airelibre

I think out of your list, only לילה contains a diphthong, /ai/


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## hadronic

The "ayi" part in dual endings or segholate nouns like בית is pronounced as a diphthong in everyday speech. 
In your list יום is a the only one that can't be phonologically be considered a diphthong.


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> The "ayi" part in dual endings or segholate nouns like בית is pronounced as a diphthong in everyday speech.



I disagree. You could say the "y" is dropped, but the "a" and the "i" are still separate syllables.


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## amikama

hadronic said:


> In your list יום is a the only one that can't be phonologically be considered a diphthong.


As far as I know, יום is pronounced _yom_. Isn't _yo _considered a diphthong?


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## Drink

amikama said:


> As far as I know, יום is pronounced _yom_. Isn't _yo _considered a diphthong?



I could be, but I don't think it should be in this case. The difference between a diphthong and a glide+vowel or vowel+glide is in the analysis and not in the actual phonetics. Usually you call something a diphthong if it functions as if it were a single vowel. For example, in English the long-u [ju] can be considered a diphthong because it occurs where any other vowel does: _universe_ [jun-], _cube_ [kjub], etc. But it Hebrew, יו cannot occur in the place of another vowel, so we see the [j] as a consonant rather than as part of a diphthong.


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## rushalaim

Tanakh 5 times attaches two vowels together that way  יְרֻשָׁלִַם
As far as I know, different groups of Ashkenazim pronounce _Waw_-letter as a diphthong. Poland says [_oi_], Lithuania [_ei_], Holland [_au_], Switzerland [_ou_].
For example: *אֲדֹנָי* as _"Adoynoy"_.


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## ystab

There are some, mainly in modern spoken Hebrew. The most common diphthong, I think, is ay.

Some examples:
הישר - Hajsher - directly
מאַוְרר - Meawrer - fan (I am not sure about that word containing a diphthong)
נִיְלֵן - Nijlen - nyloned
צִיְנַן - Tzijnen - scored (determined the score)


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## Drink

ystab said:


> מאַוְרר - Meawrer - fan (I am not sure about that word containing a diphthong)



Isn't that meavrer with a "v"?


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## amikama

Drink said:


> I could be, but I don't think it should be in this case. The difference between a diphthong and a glide+vowel or vowel+glide is in the analysis and not in the actual phonetics. Usually you call something a diphthong if it functions as if it were a single vowel. For example, in English the long-u [ju] can be considered a diphthong because it occurs where any other vowel does: _universe_ [jun-], _cube_ [kjub], etc. But it Hebrew, יו cannot occur in the place of another vowel, so we see the [j] as a consonant rather than as part of a diphthong.


Thank you for your reply... although I'm not sure I fully understood it


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## utopia

As far as I know the only diphthong that exists in Hebrew is the ai diphthong.

It exists in close stressed syllables and at the end of a word:

ידייך, ידיי - yadaich, yaday (I think that yaday is a development of yadaya or something like that).

I think Laila is an exception.


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## Drink

utopia said:


> As far as I know the only diphthong that exists in Hebrew is the ai diphthong.
> 
> It exists in close syllables and at the end of a word:
> 
> ידייך, ידיי - yadaich, yaday (I think that yaday is a development of yadaya or something like that).



In yad*a(y)i*ch it is not a diphthong (just like in b*a(y)i*t), but in yad*ay* it is. (You're right that yaday used to be yadayya, but that's not really relevant here.) But there are more diphthongs in Hebrew, some of them optional. Like some people pronounce תשע as t*ey*sha and אלינו as el*ey*nu, but some people pronounce them as t*e*sha and el*e*nu.


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## utopia

Yadaich is a diphthong, and the "e" in yadecha is a shortening of that diphthong.


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## Drink

utopia said:


> Yadaich is a diphthong, and the "e" in yadecha is a shortening of that diphthong.



It is not. It used to be, but it is not any more. Unless you are saying that it is reverting back to a diphthong in some super colloquial pronunciations or very fast speech.


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## utopia

I don't see why it's not a diphthong.


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## Drink

utopia said:


> I don't see why it's not a diphthong.



It's separate syllables. A diphthong would be if it were יָדַיְךְ (yad*ay*ch) instead of יָדַיִךְ (yad*a(y)i*ch).


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## utopia

In fast speech you don't really feel the difference: yad*ay*ch is heard not less.
So I still don't see why not call it a diphthong.


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## utopia

In fact sometimes one might hear yadAich, with a very very short i, that it's almost pronounced yadach


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## Drink

utopia said:


> In fact sometimes one might hear yadAich, with a very very short i, that it's almost pronounced yadach



Like I said "Unless you are saying that it is reverting back to a diphthong in some super colloquial pronunciations or very fast speech."


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## utopia

sababa


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## rushalaim

We say אֵילִים but why אַיִל using diphthong? 
The same we use diphthong לָיְלָה though Pentateuch uses also לֵיל (Exodus 12:42).


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## hadronic

Drink said:


> I disagree. You could say the "y" is dropped, but the "a" and the "i" are still separate syllables.



As others said above, almost no one keeps them separate in _ordinary_ speech (not necessarily very fast or sloppy speech). 
Ordinary speech tends to drop a lot of vowels, _hi-mdabert,  stomert, laas°t edze_,... It would be really doubtful for _ai_ to not turn into _ay. 
_
Besides _layla, Hayfa, haysher_ (with shva under the yod, as opposed to a hirik)... another occurrence of the "diphthong"  is _ha-yladim. _That said, in all these cases, it can be better analyzed as VC rather VV (which it is anyway).

Regarding the long u of English : it almost behaves like a vowel, except for the indefinite article, where _a_ is used, instead of _an_. But that's true it otherwise represents the only were yod follows a consonant in English outside of word boundaries.


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## rushalaim

Genesis 16:6 _Hebrew_ uses *בְּעֵינָיִךְ* as a diphthong, though _Aramaic_ translates it perfectly as *בְּעֵינַכִי*


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> As others said above, almost no one keeps them separate in _ordinary_ speech (not necessarily very fast or sloppy speech).
> Ordinary speech tends to drop a lot of vowels, _hi-mdabert,  stomert, laas°t edze_,... It would be really doubtful for _ai_ to not turn into _ay._



There's no such thing as "ordinary"; all speech is different and context-dependent. I would consider -ert to be fast speech. Perhaps some people use fast speech as their default in their day-to-day lives. "hi-mdab-" and "stom-" and your other examples are a different phenomenon.


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## amikama

What about vowel+פתח גנוב? Are they two separate vowels, a diphthong, or something else?

Some examples:
לוקח lok*ea*h
מגיע mag*ia*(3)
גבוה gav*oa*h
רוח r*ua*h


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## Drink

amikama said:


> What about vowel+פתח גנוב? Are they two separate vowels, a diphthong, or something else?
> 
> Some examples:
> לוקח lok*ea*h
> מגיע mag*ia*(3)
> גבוה gav*oa*h
> רוח r*ua*h



I think that they were originally diphthongs in Masoretic Hebrew, but in Modern pronunciation are not, except (maybe?) in fast speech. Many people pronounce הגיע and הגיעה the same way, which makes it difficult to argue that in fast speech the former is a diphthong while the latter isn't, since they are pronounced the same.


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## rushalaim

_Hebrew_ diphthong נֹחַ _Arabic_ pronounces as נֻח . 
_Hebrew_ diphthong רוּחַ _Arabic_ pronounces as רוּח . By the way, when suffix is attached the word loses its diphthong and becomes as רוּחִי .
Pentateuch (according its Karaites' niqqud we are using today) uses diphthong and not in the word מִזְבֵחַ and מִזְבַח both.


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## Drink

rushalaim said:


> _Hebrew_ diphthong נֹחַ _Arabic_ pronounces as נֻח .
> _Hebrew_ diphthong רוּחַ _Arabic_ pronounces as רוּח . By the way, when suffix is attached the word loses its diphthong and becomes as רוּחִי .



Actually, if you listen to Arabs pronounce the word رُوح (ruuH), you will hear they actually say something like ruuaH as well (or at least many of them do).


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## rushalaim

Drink said:


> Actually, if you listen to Arabs pronounce the word رُوح (ruuH), you will hear they actually say something like ruuaH as well (or at least many of them do).


Do you mean it is because _Arabic_ pronounces _Vav_-letter correctly as [_w_]-sound?


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## Drink

rushalaim said:


> Do you mean it is because _Arabic_ pronounces _Vav_-letter correctly as [_w_]-sound?



No, that's not why. The waw letter here is just a long-U. The diphthong is because of the letter ح [ħ].


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## rushalaim

Drink said:


> No, that's not why. The waw letter here is just a long-U. The diphthong is because of the letter ح [ħ].


Jewish-Yemenites pronounce [ruwah].


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## Drink

rushalaim said:


> Jewish-Yemenites pronounce [ruwah].



Yes, but that's not what I was talking about.


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## bazq

Drink said:


> Like I said "Unless you are saying that it is reverting back to a diphthong in some super colloquial pronunciations or very fast speech."



I disagree that [yadach] is heard, could be that I haven't payed attention to it, but ידייך is [yadaych] or [yada-ich].The former has a diphthong, while the second a hiatus.



Drink said:


> I think that they were originally diphthongs in Masoretic Hebrew, but in Modern pronunciation are not, except (maybe?) in fast speech. Many people pronounce הגיע and הגיעה the same way, which makes it difficult to argue that in fast speech the former is a diphthong while the latter isn't, since they are pronounced the same.



What was the diphthong in MH? was there a yod-insertion or something? to me these are hiatuses, and these are seperate syllables.



rushalaim said:


> Jewish-Yemenites pronounce [ruwah].



Not just Yemenites. The general pronunciation in Modern Hebrew includes this w-insertion before the vowel u:

רוח = ruwach
פתוח = patuwach
בטוח = batuwach
שטוח =shatuwach


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## Drink

bazq said:


> What was the diphthong in MH? was there a yod-insertion or something? to me these are hiatuses, and these are seperate syllables.



Well these came from just long vowels followed by a guttural. The guttural cause the long vowel to veer towards [ a] at the end. So the diphthong was something like [uːa̯]. At some point it became a separate syllable, but I don't know when.



bazq said:


> Not just Yemenites. The general pronunciation in Modern Hebrew includes this w-insertion before the vowel u:
> 
> רוח = ruwach
> פתוח = patuwach
> בטוח = batuwach
> שטוח =shatuwach



I think in Yemenite the [w] is more pronounced and even geminated, like [ruwwaħ].


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## bazq

Drink said:


> Well these came from just long vowels followed by a guttural. The guttural cause the long vowel to veer towards [ a] at the end. So the diphthong was something like [uːa̯]. At some point it became a separate syllable, but I don't know when.



Oh, got it. I was aware of the low vowel preference before gutturals, but was not aware whatsoever that in the past these counted as one syllable. Thanks!




Drink said:


> I think in Yemenite the [w] is more pronounced and even geminated, like [ruwwaħ].



Quite cool. Thank you.


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## utopia

I don't see how a Hebrew speaker who speaks in an ordinary speed would not pronounce BAIT's vowels as a diphthong.

I'd understand if the claim was that it is pronounced "BA-IT" as if there is an א between the A and the I sounds, but I don't hear people doing that.


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## bazq

utopia said:


> I don't see how a Hebrew speaker who speaks in an ordinary speed would not pronounce BAIT's vowels as a diphthong.
> 
> I'd understand if the claim was that it is pronounced "BA-IT" as if there is an א between the A and the I sounds, but I don't hear people doing that.



People do pronounce it [bait], that doesn't mean there's an aleph there (an audible glottal stop, though you can hear people use a glottal stop when they speak angrily - אאאני לללאאא בבביתת = [aanni looo babaa'it]! because they stress the syllables). It's a case of 2 vowels with no consonant between them whatsoever. The distinction between an _ vowel and a [j] (yod - י) is vague anyway, so you might perceive [bait] as [bayt] and vice versa. All of this doesn't change the fact that every Israeli will tell you this word contains 2 syllables ([ba] and [yit/it/'it]), even if they pronounce it as [bayt] - which is technically a one syllable word. So phonetically בית could be realized as [bayt], but phonologically there's no merit in analyzing it as a diphthong since it's only present in the surface form of the word, not the underlying form. That's what I got from this thread, but I suck at phonology so..._


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## utopia

I don't know if every Israeli would tell me this word contains 2 syllables. And if Israelis do that, does it really mean there are 2 syllables in this word?

And I am really sorry, but I didn't understand the last phrase of yours:



bazq said:


> So phonetically בית could be realized as [bayt], but phonologically there's no merit in analyzing it as a diphthong since it's only present in the surface form of the word, not the underlying form.


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## elroy

Drink said:


> Actually, if you listen to Arabs pronounce the word رُوح (ruuH), you will hear they actually say something like ruuaH as well (or at least many of them do).


 This is not true.   I've never heard this pronunciation.  I've always said and heard "ruuH" - with no extra vowel.


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## Drink

elroy said:


> This is not true.   I've never heard this pronunciation.  I've always said and heard "ruuH" - with no extra vowel.



It's not an "extra" vowel, it's that the "u" degrades in the direction of "a" right before the onset of the consonant. You can hear it to varying degrees in the three recordings of this word at Forvo (you hear it most in hamyow's recording, a little less in asdfforvo's, and very little if at all in NaifS3's). It could be one of those things that native speakers don't notice until it's pointed out.


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## elroy

When I listened to each recording the first time, I heard a veeeeeeeery slight "a" in the Jordan recording but I didn't hear an "a" in the other two.  After listening to each one a few more times, I alternated between hearing an "a" and not hearing one in the Jordan recording, I still didn't hear one in the UAE recording, and I heard a slight "a" once or twice in the US recording but mostly didn't hear one.

No matter how many times I say the word to myself I can't detect an "a" sound.

I guess the tongue moves in the _direction_ of "a" on its way from "u" to "H," but claiming that "many Arabs" _pronounce_ the word with an actual "a" is a stretch. 

There is a distinct and very obvious articulatory difference between the vowels in רוח and روح.


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## Drink

elroy said:


> I guess the tongue moves in the _direction_ of "a" on its way from "u" to "H," but claiming that "many Arabs" _pronounce_ the word with an actual "a" is a stretch.
> 
> There is a distinct and very obvious articulatory difference between the vowels in רוח and روح.



Well I didn't mean that they are exactly the same _now_, but that this phenomenon must have _originated_ in Hebrew as something like what we have in Arabic today.


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## elroy

I guess we disagree on whether anything that is worth noting is even happening in Arabic today.


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