# overseas vs. abroad



## Bobzinha

*Hi everybody!!

Could someone please explain me the difference between "overseas" and "abroad"?*


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## laurahya

They are often used interchangeably. Technically-speaking, though, you should only use _overseas_ if you are talking about somewhere that is actually over a sea. For example, for an American, Mexico would be _abroad_ (because it is connected by land), but France would be _overseas_ (because it is separated by the Atlantic). Does that help?


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## Bobzinha

Laurahya,

I'm in Brazil talking about Australia, so I guess it would be overseas.... Acutally, Im' mean worldwide...The sentence is:

we are the  designated office to deal with Intellectual Property services abroad.


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## laurahya

It's just been pointed out to me that you can *always* use 'abroad', no matter where you are or where the other country is. 'Overseas' is the only one you have to be careful with. So if in doubt, go with abroad. Your sentence is fine, but if you mean 'worldwide' you could also say:

_...international intellectual property services..._

But then I suppose you are loading up your adjectives. Your sentence is fine as it is


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## Bobzinha

*Thank you!!!! *


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## the-pessimist

Personally, I like the sound of:

"we are the designated office to deal with Intellectual Property services _overseas_"

Até mais


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## cuchuflete

the-pessimist said:
			
		

> Personally, I like the sound of:
> 
> "we are the designated office to deal with Intellectual Property services _overseas_"
> 
> Até mais



You may like the sound of it, and it would work in the example given, but not for Paraguay or Argentina, from a brasileiro viewpoint.  Unless, of course you consider large rivers like the Paraná to be 'seas'.


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## the-pessimist

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> You may like the sound of it, and it would work in the example given, but not for Paraguay or Argentina, from a brasileiro viewpoint. Unless, of course you consider large rivers like the Paraná to be 'seas'.


 
I still do like the sound of it: but moreover, I was assuming we are to reply to thread starter and the issue addressed by him/her - and given that the thread starter said,



> I'm in Brazil talking about Australia


 
I find my 'preference' of sentence to remain adequate.


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## cuchuflete

The-pessimist,
Your preference is perfectly valid and fine for part of the example stated by Bobzinha, the part you cited, but it doesn't work in all cases...



> Acutally, Im' mean worldwide...The sentence is:
> 
> we are the  designated office to deal with Intellectual Property services abroad.


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## Brioche

Bobzinha said:
			
		

> *Hi everybody!!*
> 
> *Could someone please explain me the difference between "overseas" and "abroad"?*


 
From the point of view of people in Britain, Ireland, New Zealand or Australia, to get to another country you have to go "overseas", so we tend to use the words interchangeably. Going from England to Scotland is not "going abroad".

If you are in a land-locked country, then you can go _abroad_ without crossing the sea.


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## cuchuflete

Further to Brioche's point...

If you are not in a land-locked country, such as Haiti, you may still be able to go abroad, to the República Dominicana, without going overseas.  All other trips abroad will take you to an overseas destination.


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## maxiogee

"Abroad" is any foreign country - "overseas" means crossing the sea.

I live in Ireland. We share one land border with the United Kingdom. There is only one country I can go "abroad" to and not go "overseas". All other countries are overseas to me.
However, a Parisian can go to many, many countries "abroad" without going overseas - almost all of Europe, Asia and by circuitous route into Africa.
Corsica is overseas to a Parisian but it is not 'abroad'


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## Brioche

maxiogee said:
			
		

> "Abroad" is any foreign country - "overseas" means crossing the sea.
> 
> I live in Ireland. We share one land border with the United Kingdom. There is only one country I can go "abroad" to and not go "overseas". All other countries are overseas to me.


 
My late mother lived in Donegal and went to school in Derry. I don't think she ever thought she was _going abroad_ on her daily trips to school.


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## maxiogee

Without going into the political thoughts of your mother, I'll just say that she almost certainly passed a customs post if she went by road. I would also hazard a guess that she followed an English Dept of Ed curriculum whilst I in Dublin followed an Irish one.


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## plattpou

OK, here's my ideas, please tell me if im wrong..

I take the word overseas as a sinonim of everywhere i have never took the time to research on that, but for me works that way, and i use abroad to indicate somewhere outside the country.

I think this could mark a slight difference, becouse you can use overseas to cover the whole range, and abroad to everywhere else but your country, and not otherwise.

As i said before, this are thoughts.. So please tell me if im wrong.


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## cuchuflete

plattpou said:
			
		

> OK, here's my ideas, please tell me if im wrong..
> 
> I take the word overseas as a s*y*non*y*m of everywhere i have never took the time to research on that, but for me works that way, and i use abroad to indicate somewhere outside the country.
> 
> I think this could mark a slight difference, becouse you can use overseas to cover the whole range, and abroad to everywhere else but your country, and not otherwise.
> 
> As i said before, this are thoughts.. So please tell me if im wrong.


 You are only half wrong. Abroad is what you say it is. For overseas, try reading the rest of this thread, or use any dictionary.  
Here is what the WR English dictionary tells us.


> *overseas* *A*_adjective_
> *1 *abroad, *overseas*
> 
> _in a foreign country; "markets abroad"; "overseas markets"  _
> 
> 
> 
> *2 *oversea, *overseas*
> 
> _being or passing over or across the sea; "some overseas trade in grain arose"  _
> 
> 
> *B*_adverb_
> *1 **overseas*, beyond the sea, over the sea, abroad
> 
> _in a place across an ocean  _
> 
> 
> 
> *2 *oversea, *overseas*
> 
> _beyond or across the sea; "He lived overseas for many years"  _


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## Mariaguadalupe

I went to school in Brownsville, Texas, crossing the border from México to another country every single day.  Even though technically I studied abroad, I never considered it as such.  In fact it is a widely used joke among locals, to kid about going abroad when we are only going across the border.  For us it is just a way of life.  Each city considers the other as an extension of itself.


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## plattpou

Thanks cuchuflete... So they do are sinonims.. 
and seems that overseas tends to be more specific in when you have to cross the sea..   all clear now.


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## Bobzinha

I was in doubt between "overseas" and "abroad" because I was specifically talking about Australia, so I think that overseas would be right. If I had to talk about Argentina, for instance, it would be "abroad". But if I want to say generally, I would use abroad, or world wide. 

Thank you for the explanations. I appreciate everbody's effort!!!


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## megan medellin

i would say the same thing 

i say the same thing laurahya said


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## timpeac

Despite the fact that we are an island - I think that here we use "abroad" much more often than "overseas". "Are you staying at home or going abroad for your holidays this year?" - fine. "Are you staying at home or going overseas for your holidays this year" - hmmm certainly not the default question and it at least gives the impression of going a long way away. I can't imagine a Brit describing France or Spain as "overseas" (despite the literal meaning of the word).

In the past I had noticed that Australians always say "overseas" and never abroad (right Brioche?) despite the fact that abroad doesn't preclude crossing water.


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## cuchuflete

Bobzinha said:
			
		

> I was in doubt between "overseas" and "abroad" because I was specifically talking about Australia, so I think that overseas would be right. If I had to talk about Argentina, for instance, it would be "abroad". But if I want to say generally, I would use abroad, or world wide.



You are exactly right, Bobzinha.
From Brasil, Australia is both overseas and abroad. Argentina is abroad, but not overseas.


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## the-pessimist

timpeac said:
			
		

> Despite the fact that we are an island - I think that here we use "abroad" much more often than "overseas". "Are you staying at home or going abroad for your holidays this year?" - fine. "Are you staying at home or going overseas for your holidays this year" - hmmm certainly not the default question and it at least gives the impression of going a long way away. I can't imagine a Brit describing France or Spain as "overseas" (despite the literal meaning of the word).
> 
> In the past I had noticed that Australians always say "overseas" and never abroad (right Brioche?) despite the fact that abroad doesn't preclude crossing water.


 
Although we may say _abroad_ for going on holiday; the question was regarding business. In business terms we do use _overseas_ a lot - overseas' clients, etc. I'm not saying abroad is not used, but that overseas *is* used.

Cuchuflete - first you say to me; with reference to me preferring overseas:


> You may like the sound of it, and it would work in the example given, but not for Paraguay or Argentina, from a brasileiro viewpoint. Unless, of course you consider large rivers like the Paraná to be 'seas'.


 
and then you say:
*



overseas Aadjective

Click to expand...





1 abroad, overseas

in a foreign country; "markets abroad"; "overseas markets" 

Click to expand...

 
(not supposed to be in bold below - I can't remove the boldness though)
The above which does not imply any 'actual seas' need to be included, and moreover just a word used to describe 'markets abroad' - and that is the context we are talking of too (foreign markets, business, etc.) *


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## cuchuflete

Greetings Pessimist,
Yes, that dictionary citation is a mess!  It treats the two terms as if they were synonyms, and they are not.
Here is a better dictionary explanation than what I mistakenly copied from Princeton's WordNet.

Abroad:  1. Out of one's own country, 2. In a foreign country or countries.

Your point about business usage of 'overseas' is a good one.

When you conduct business in Wales or Scotland, do you also call that 'overseas commerce' or is it just 'foreign'?  When someone from your country travels to Scotland, do you go overseas, abroad, or neither?  (The UK overlay makes me more than a little confused.)


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## the-pessimist

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Greetings Pessimist,
> Yes, that dictionary citation is a mess! It treats the two terms as if they were synonyms, and they are not.
> Here is a better dictionary explanation than what I mistakenly copied from Princeton's WordNet.
> 
> Abroad: 1. Out of one's own country, 2. In a foreign country or countries.
> 
> Your point about business usage of 'overseas' is a good one.
> 
> When you conduct business in Wales or Scotland, do you also call that 'overseas commerce' or is it just 'foreign'? When someone from your country travels to Scotland, do you go overseas, abroad, or neither? (The UK overlay makes me more than a little confused.)


 
Well, as I'm sure you're fully aware - the UK is a country - and not England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland etc.

So, perhaps this the reason why I see it like that. As, for us, to go 'anywhere' outside of our 'country' is overseas, and moreover, even to travel within the country* can still be overseas (from N.Ireland -> Great Britain**, and the reverse).

* The country's full name being - "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island" (and also includes a number of smaller islands)

** Great Britain = England, Scotland & Wales

I hope that helps, and when you see my location saying England, you can think of it as a 'state' like in the USA.  But my native of is the UK.


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## zaffy

the-pessimist said:


> Although we may say _abroad_ for going on holiday; the question was regarding business. In business terms we do use _overseas_ a lot - overseas' clients, etc. I'm not saying abroad is not used, but that overseas *is* used.



So a British online shop might say "we don't ship overseas" rather than "abroad" and that will refer to any foreign country, right?


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## zaffy

the-pessimist said:


> As, for us, to go 'anywhere' outside of our 'country' is overseas, and moreover, even to travel within the country* can still be overseas (from N.Ireland -> Great Britain**, and the reverse).



That's interesting. Looks like there is a lot of personal preference among BE speakers. Another Brit said somewhere in the forums that referring to any travel between Great Britain and N. Ireland as "ovearseas" is laughable for them.


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## Tegs

zaffy said:


> Another Brit said somewhere in the forums that referring to any travel between Great Britain and N. Ireland as "ovearseas" is laughable for them.


I disagree. When you go from Northern Ireland to England you are literally crossing the sea. Therefore, it is “overseas”. Women used to have to go overseas to get an abortion, for example, as it was illegal in N.Ireland and legal in England. 



the-pessimist said:


> Well, as I'm sure you're fully aware - the UK is a country - and not England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland etc.
> 
> So, perhaps this the reason why I see it like that. As, for us, to go 'anywhere' outside of our 'country' is overseas, and moreover, even to travel within the country* can still be overseas (from N.Ireland -> Great Britain**, and the reverse


This is nonsense, and seems written expressly to annoy people from Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland.


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## ewie

the-pessimist said:


> * The country's full name being - "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island _Ireland_"


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## ewie

Tegs said:


> This is nonsense, and seems written expressly to annoy people from Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland.


 Which bit specifically, Tegs?


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## Myridon

the-pessimist said:


> So, perhaps this the reason why I see it like that. As, for us, to go 'anywhere' outside of our 'country' is overseas, and moreover, even to travel within the country* can still be overseas (from N.Ireland -> Great Britain**, and the reverse).


As in a few other threads, I see a rather pointed ignoring of the existence of the Republic of Ireland by British members.  The Republic of Ireland is not physically overseas from the Northern Ireland part of the UK.


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## ewie

Myridon said:


> As in a few other threads, I see a rather pointed ignoring of the existence of the Republic of Ireland by British members.


Or they could be memory lapses


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## Tegs

ewie said:


> Which bit specifically, Tegs?


The bit that says that the constituent parts of the UK are not countries. 


Myridon said:


> The Republic of Ireland is not physically overseas from the Northern Ireland part of the UK.


Of course it isn't


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## zaffy

Tegs said:


> When you go from Northern Ireland to England you are literally crossing the sea. Therefore, it is “overseas”.



I see. However, from what I understood for some Britons even going to France is not going overseas; yet I'm not sure why. Is that because the channel is not a sea or simply the distance is too short.


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## Tegs

zaffy said:


> for some Britons even going to France is not going overseas;



Frankly, that's odd.


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## Packard

As a tip, when unsure of which word to use try googling in this format:  "overseas vs. abroad".  Very often the answer will pop up immediately.

I this instance when I googled that I did find the same information as shown above plus this interesting tidbit:






Abroad and Overseas


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## ewie

Tegs said:


> The bit that says that the constituent parts of the UK are not countries.


 He meant 'not sovereign states' ~ there's no 'Wales' or 'Scotland' in the UN or Eurovision [], for example.


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## zaffy

Tegs said:


> Frankly, that's odd.



And is going from Ireland to Poland "overseas"? Or is the distance too short to be called that way?


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## zaffy

I guess only one of these doesn't work, right?

We go overseas twice a year.   
We go abroad tiwce a year. 

We met a few overseas students. 
We met a few abroad students. 

I need to import these car parts from abroad. 
I need to import these car parts from overseas.


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> I guess only one of these doesn't work, right?
> 
> We go overseas twice a year.
> We go abroad tiwce a year.
> 
> We met a few overseas students.
> We met a few abroad students.
> 
> I need to import these car parts from abroad.
> I need to import these car parts from overseas.



I wouldn't personally talk about going "overseas" twice a year.  I think it sounds a bit odd.


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## zaffy

DonnyB said:


> I wouldn't personally talk about going "overseas" twice a year. I think it sounds a bit odd.



Just because of "twice"? How about these?

We go overseas at least once a year.
We go abroad at least once a year.


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## DonnyB

Maybe it's just me, but it has the connotation of _not coming back_. 

You can talk about living overseas or moving overseas or sending a parcel overseas.  I don't think _going overseas once a year_ really works: I suppose there might be a scenario in which it would sound natural, but I can't think of one offhand.


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## zaffy

DonnyB said:


> Maybe it's just me, but it has the connotation of _not coming back_.
> 
> You can talk about living overseas or moving overseas or sending a parcel overseas. I don't think _going overseas once a year_ really works: I suppose there might be a scenario in which it would sound natural, but I can't think of one offhand.


That's interesting. You're the first to mention it. 
However, it might not be true for Australian English. I guess two AusE speakers metnioned they used overseas for any kind of travelling. Someone added they hardly used "abroad".


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## Andygc

DonnyB said:


> Maybe it's just me, but it has the connotation of _not coming back_.


It must be. I have never thought that "going overseas" had any implication of permanence. If it had I would never have got back from Hong Kong or Ascension Island. I can't see anything odd or remarkable about "We go overseas for a holiday twice a year". I don't much like "We go overseas twice a year", but only because there is no reason given. If this was part of a discussion about holidays, and so had context, it would be perfectly acceptable. As, of course, would be "abroad". I also expect that there might well be a preference for saying "abroad" in BE, but that doesn't make "overseas" unacceptable.


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## velisarius

This seems to me a typical BE use of the term "overseas":
What if I am in the armed forces and working overseas? | Low Incomes Tax Reform Group

We might be posted overseas, but we tend to go abroad for our holidays.

I have relatives living overseas - in Australia, Canada, and other remote parts of the globe.


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