# FR: our professor, Ms. Jones, went to the movies



## 2dirham

OK, so I know when you do passe compose with movement verbs, the past participle has to agree with the subject(Feminine, Plural ETC.). Now, my question is if I am saying Le proffeseur est allé au cinema, I would simply use allé. What if the teacher was a female? Can I say Le proffeseur est allée au cinema? Or do I have to specificy Ms. Jones, Le proffeseur, est allée au cinema? Does the past participle have to agree with the subject or the specific name?


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## Seeda

_*Le *professeur est all*é* au cinéma _→ can refer to a female or male but _allé_ is in the masculine gender because so is _le professeur_.

However, we also have a feminine pendant: _la professeure_, which is a fairly recent word (that not everybody uses) → _*La *professeur*e* est all*ée* au cinéma_.

Note that phrases like _Ms Jones, le professeur_ are, though correct, to be avoided because they sound awkward. It's better to say, _Ms Jones, qui est professeur__(e)_, for example.


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## 2dirham

Seeda said:


> _*Le *professeur est all*é* au cinéma _→ can refer to a female or male but _allé_ is in the masculine gender because so is _le professeur_.
> 
> However, we also have a feminine pendant: _la professeure_, which is a fairly recent word (that not everybody uses) → _*La *professeur*e* est all*ée* au cinéma_.
> 
> Note that phrases like _Ms Jones, le professeur_ are, though correct, to be avoided because they sound awkward. It's better to say, _Ms Jones, qui est professeur__(e)_, for example.



OOOO so I have to say Ms Jones, qui est professeur, est allé au cinema because even though Ms Jones is female, professeur is masculine.
I also have another question. The word élève(student) can be either masculine or feminine. Does that mean I can say:
1. Jon, qui est élève, est allè au cinema
2. Mary, qui est élève, est allèe au cinema.
Would both of those be correct in that certain situation as the word élève can be Masculine or Feminine depending on my subject?


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## mnewcomb71

I do believe that the difference with "élève" is that we can say "une élève" whereas we really cannot say "une professeure".


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## 2dirham

mnewcomb71 said:


> I do believe that the difference with "élève" is that we can say "une élève" whereas we really cannot say "une professeure".



I do know that but I was just making sure that élève can be used with allé or allée depending on what gender élève is.


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## janpol

Ms Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinéma... et Monsieur Martin, qui est sage-femme, y est allé avec elle


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## 2dirham

janpol said:


> Ms Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinéma... et Monsieur Martin, qui est sage-femme, y est allé avec elle


I am getting confused  If it was simply le proffesseur, I would use allé but if the noun contains a specific name, then I would use allé or allée depending on the gender of the person even if I am talking about Le Professeur?


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## Juan Jacob Vilalta

janpol said:


> Ms Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinéma... et Monsieur Martin, qui est sage-femme, y est allé avec elle



Monsieur Martin, sage-femme.

T'as vraiment envie d'embrouiller.
Mais c'est comme ça.


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## 2dirham

Someone please clarify!!!!!!
1. Le professeur est allé au cinema
2. Ms. Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinema.
Are both those sentences correct? If I had a proper name AND a noun, I would use the gender of the proper noun right? Ms. Jones> Le Professeur as I would use allée, right?


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## Seeda

2dirham said:


> 1. Le professeur est allé au cinema
> 2. Ms. Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinema.
> Are both those sentences correct?




Yes, they are.




2dirham said:


> If I had a proper name AND a noun, I would use the gender of the proper noun right? Ms. Jones> Le Professeur as I would use allée, right?




Nope:


Notre professeur, qui est Ms Jones, est all*é *au cinéma → here *allé *agrees with _professeur _(masculine).
Notre professeure, qui est Ms Jones, est allée au cinéma → *allée *agrees with _professeure_ (feminine).
Ms Jones, qui est notre professeur, est allée au cinéma → *allée *agrees with Ms Jones (feminine).


The parts I underlined can be removed. Therefore, they don't influence the agreement of *allé *(past participle).


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## janpol

Ms Jones, qui est professeur, est allée au cinéma...
je dirais que Mrs Jones est de sexe féminin avant d'être professeur


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## 2dirham

Seeda said:


> Yes, they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope:
> 
> 
> Notre professeur, qui est Ms Jones, est all*é *au cinéma → here *allé *agrees with _professeur _(masculine).
> Notre professeure, qui est Ms Jones, est allée au cinéma → *allée *agrees with _professeure_ (feminine).
> Ms Jones, qui est notre professeur, est allée au cinéma → *allée *agrees with Ms Jones (feminine).
> 
> 
> The parts I underlined can be removed. Therefore, they don't influence the agreement of *allé *(past participle).



OOOO so in a very simplified way, it is what comes first. If I am talking about the le professeur specifically, then I use allé but if I am talking specifically about Ms Jones, le professeur, then I would use allée.


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## Chimel

2dirham said:


> OOOO so in a very simplified way, it is what comes first. If I am talking about the le professeur specifically, then I use allé but if I am talking specifically about Ms Jones, le professeur, then I would use allée.


Right, you have to agree with the real subject, which is always the first element in these examples, no matter if it is a propre name or a noun: Ms. Jones, qui est professeur..., Notre professeur, Ms. Jones..., L'élève Sarah...

Now, there is a particularity with "professeur", because
a) you may use it as a masculine noun even if it refers to a woman, which is up to now the classical way of saying it, but in this case you don't agree in the feminine, which is quite logical: "Notre professeur, Ms. Jones, est allé..." (but note that if you say it the other way round "Ms. Jones, notre professeur" it should be "est allée" because then the real subject _is_ Ms. Jones, which is always feminine!)

b) you may use the more recent word "la professeure", as Seeda suggests, in which case of course the past participle must be in the feminine. Some people do use "la professeure", but you must know it's not accepted by everyone yet and you won't find it in most dictionaries (le Petit Robert gives as an example "une nouvelle professeur", so the masculine even with a feminine adjective). So it's more like a sort a political statement to say "la professeure" and now, in 2012, I would not recommend it to someone who is learning French. But "la féminisation des noms de métier" is a long and ongoing debate among French-speaking people and in ten years, things will perhaps have changed...


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## LILOIA

I would say : "Notre professeur, Ms Jones, est allée .." whether or not "professeur" is before or after Ms Jones. "Professeur" has no feminine but still it's a female human being. The past participle agrees with the subject, and the subject is female, it could be replaced by the personal pronoun "she". You wouldn't say : "Notre professeur, Ms Jones est allé au cinéma. Il a vu un film ...


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## 2dirham

Thanks everyone for the help. I finally understood it!


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## janpol

Liloia, en écrivant "je dirais que Mrs Jones est de sexe féminin avant d'être professeur", je ne pensais pas à l'ordre des mots.


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## LILOIA

J'avais compris, je répondais à 2dirham :


2dirham said:


> OOOO so in a very simplified way, it is what  comes first. If I am talking about the le professeur specifically, then I  use allé but if I am talking specifically about Ms Jones, le  professeur, then I would use allée.


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