# -te shimau and its more casual form



## bruno321

Hi. Just a little question: what does the "-te shimau" form mean? And I'm aware there's a more casual form of it, but I can't recall how it was (-te chatta?). When would you use one or the other?

Thanks.


----------



## Musical Chairs

Umm...I don't know if this what you mean, but I will try. I'm going to make my own example since you didn't give one.

"yatte shimau" - get it over with.
"yachatta" - got it over with. It has a connotation of "oh well," or "it wasn't that bad" or other things that mean something not serious. It's more informal, but not the same as "yatte shimau."


----------



## Flaminius

Hello bruno,

Your little question in fact requires a very big answer.    But I'd just try something short.  If you need more explanation, please ask!

V-_te shimau _can express a lot of attitudes of the speaker but I consider involuntariness to be at the centre of its semantic web.  E.g., moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai


s_a_n_t_i said:


> She/He is not against that, but maybe is afraid to become attracted, or doesn't really want to, but his/her emotions are stronger than his self restraint...



Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.

Now for the morphology;
In casual speech, V-_te shimau_ is replaced by V-_chau_.  Your V-_chatta_ is the replacement for the past V-_te shimatta_.  V, the verb stem, undergoes the same phonological changes for -_te shimau_ and -_chau_.  Examples are;
taberu: tabeteshimau vs. tabechau
nomu: nondeshimau vs. nonjau
kaku: kaiteshimau vs. kaichau
kau: katteshimau vs. kacchau
dasu: dashiteshimau vs. dashichau.


----------



## bruno321

> E.g., moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai



I cannot really understand this example, I don't have that level of Japanese (moshika shitara? ni natte?). Could you expand a little or give some more practical examples? 

Thank you both


----------



## Flaminius

Okay, how about _waratteshimatta_ (from _warau_; to laugh)?  This means, "I could not help laughing."  The _teshimatta_ part suggests involuntariness: The speaker might have known it was inappropriate to laugh in the given situation or he simply did not think he would laugh, but he did.


----------



## bruno321

Ok, now I get it  Thank you.


----------



## lrosa

Flaminius said:


> Now for the morphology;
> In casual speech, V-_te shimau_ is replaced by V-_chau_.  Your V-_chatta_ is the replacement for the past V-_te shimatta_.  V, the verb stem, undergoes the same phonological changes for -_te shimau_ and -_chau_.



Are there other possible variations on the abbreviation of V-_te shimau_?Recently I heard something that sounded like "なっちまった" where　I would have expected なってしまった or なっちゃった. Would this be common?

EDIT: I believe I have also just heard "言っちまった", in the same vein.


----------



## Arashi

Flaminius said:


> Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.


Would there be better ways to convey these emotions toward an action or would _shimau_ be sufficient and clear enough (assuming the context made it clear)?



lrosa said:


> Are there other possible variations on the abbreviation of V-_te shimau_?Recently I heard something that sounded like "なっちまった" where　I would have expected なってしまった or なっちゃった. Would this be common?
> 
> EDIT: I believe I have also just heard "言っちまった", in the same vein.


I believe _nacchatta_ is simply the more informal form of _natte-shimatta_, unless I'm mistaken (which I might be). I think male adults are more tended to use _nacchimatta_ than _nacchatta_ (again, I could be wrong about that, too).


----------



## lrosa

Arashi said:


> I believe _nacchatta_ is simply the more informal form of _natte-shimatta_, unless I'm mistaken (which I might be). I think male adults are more tended to use _nacchimatta_ than _nacchatta_ (again, I could be wrong about that, too).



Indeed, I realise I only heard males using the _nacchimatta _form, while both females and males used_ nacchatta
_ 


Arashi said:


> Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.
> 
> Would there be better ways to convey these emotions toward an action or would _shimau_ be sufficient and clear enough (assuming the context made it clear)?



I think -te shimau is a very effective way of conveying these emotions:

さびしいねぇ、犬がいなくなっちゃって。。


----------



## Ectab

Ossu
Long time no ask
How to use this verb?
I was told its meaning is to colse, to finish... but I can't get why it is used, because there is no translation for it when it is used
Doko e icchatta no kanaa?
icchatta=itte shimatta... right?
what is the difference between this and:
doko e itta no kanaa?

omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!
He disappeared before you come!

could you explain it for me?
thank you


----------



## DaylightDelight

V-te shimau and its variations (chau, chimau) have two meanings: completion and regret.
Between "doko e icchatta no kanaa?" and "doko e itta no kanaa?", the latter is more neutral and the first one conveys the speaker's regret/frustration better.

omae ga kuru mae ni *i*naku natte shimatta yo!
In this case, shimatta can mean either completion, regret, or a combination of both.

He's gone before you came! (completion)
I'm afraid he's gone before you came! (regret and completion)


----------



## frequency

Ectab said:


> Doko e icchatta no kanaa?
> icchatta=itte shimatta... right?


Yes, roughly.


> what is the difference between this and: doko e itta no kanaa?


_Doko e icchatta no kanaa?_ vs _doko e itta no kanaa?_

They are almost the same because both mean something has gone away. But if you say _icchatta_, it has your feeling of "OMG" (TωT)




Ectab said:


> omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!
> He disappeared before you come!


Who or what _nakunatta_?

According to you, he _nakunatta_. This, person + nakunaru, means that he dies (2). You're using the past tense, so you're saying that he has died.

Or, I ate your chocolate bar before you come.
I frequency say to you Ectab, _Omae ga kurumae ni sore ha (=chocolate bar ha) nakunatte shimatta yo!_

I ate it, so the bar disappeared. You can omit "sore ha" if the sentence is understandable without it.


----------



## Ectab

I still can not get it?
can you give me examples of your own so that I can understand better this shimau?


----------



## DaylightDelight

Try this page (How to use japanese verb te-form shimaimashita?) first.
It explains the matter pretty well.
If you still have questions after reading it, we'd be happy to help you.


----------



## frequency

Ectab said:


> I was told its meaning is to close, to finish...


Yes, good. "shimau" basically denotes completion. This completion makes some side effects.



> can you give me examples of your own so that I can understand better this shimau?



When I say Ectab's chocolate bar wo tabechatta:

a) You say "I can't find my chocolate bar in the fridge." "Ah! tabechatta yo!" (surprise = I didn't know the bar was yours.)
b) I want to lose my weight, but you gave me a chocolate bar. "Tabechatta yo (TωT)"

If I say "tabechau",
c) "Oh lol He's not here now. I'll eat his chocolate bar." (Complete it before he comes!)



> omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!


_～～shimatta _just works fine with _～～mae ni_.   "Omae ga kuru mae ni tabechatta yo!" (Completion, but no side effects)


おまけ:
For example, _itte shimau_ is iku + te + shimau = itteshimau
行ってしまう＝行く＋て＋しまう

This て is a jyoshi. This _shimau_ is used as a hojyo-doushi.
Memorise it as "teshimau"―tabeteshimau, kiteshimau. Don't confuse it with te-form.

And you know, _itteshimau_ = _icchau_ (casual)


----------

