# Regions with mystical or 'bad' reputation



## Setwale_Charm

Having travelled extensively around the world, I have noticed that many countries have a certain region or province, sometimes more than one even, which are considered to be the den of witches, mystical phenomena, some sort of "sacred land" or yet "cursed land", the population of which are viewed as "strange" or believed to possess some special abilities or knowledge and therefore viewed with suspicion. Does anything like that exist in your culture or maybe some parts of your country used to be viewed that way in the past?


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## sokol

In *Austria,* there are many such locations with local significance only which (I guess) is _not exactly_ what you are looking for.

For example, in the region where I grew up, Mühlviertel/Upper Austria, the woods - especially where there were huge granite boulders - were considered such, but in and around Vienna the bayous and pools of the swamplands of Lobau took over this role.
Anyway, they always are wild regions, nature reserves.

But in both these cases such feelings of mystification were not very strong originally, would be my guess, and they have weakened still over the years. (Well yes, there are the New Heathens who like to revitalise such old myths, but I have little insights in their ideas - anyway, I _think _that especially 'my' Mühlviertel is one of the regions they romantise over.)

I cannot think of any region in Austria that would be considered as mystical for *most *Austrians.


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## Outsider

I don't know of any specific region in Portugal or outside it that has such a reputation with the Portuguese. 

I remember, however, one time when I was reading about the the persecution that the Inquisition waged on witches and other 'Devil-worshippers', that (if the account was accurate) many of the accused in Spain were, at least initially, from northern Spain (Asturias, possibly Galicia as well). It may have been just a coincidence, or the book may have misled me (or I may be misremembering what I read), but I've always wondered, since then, whether the people from the north of the Peninsula have a reputation of witchcraft in popular Iberian lore. It's also worthy of note that this is the region with the strongest traces of Celtic culture.


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## sdgraham

Although nearly all people in the U.S. have risen above this sort of thing, there was a time when it was serious business.

Probably the best known episode was during 1692-1693 when the "good" people of Salem, Massachusetts tried, convicted and hanged several  people convicted of  witchcraft. See Wikipedia.


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## Setwale_Charm

sdgraham said:


> Although nearly all people in the U.S. have risen above this sort of thing, there was a time when it was serious business.
> 
> Probably the best known episode was during 1692-1693 when the "good" people of Salem, Massachusetts tried, convicted and hanged several people convicted of witchcraft. See Wikipedia.


 

Yes, but this is not quite something I am talking about. I am not talking about instances of witchhunt in just any place, but rather of a certain region which historically has the reputation of having some supernatural phenomena or abilities of the population. This may not necessarily provoke a violent reaction from the rest of the population.

 By the way, I have often wondered whether Transilvania actually has any reputation among Romanians that it does for the rest of the world due to the Dracula stories...


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## Mahaodeh

In Iraq, they have Babelon (not surprisingly ); although I must admit it's not that serious and people living there are not considered witches or affected by them, it's just beleived that it is where it all started.


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## Chtipays

In México there are several places but a very popular one is Tepoztlán, a town relatively close to México City, which is build next to a mountain named Tepozteco. There is a pyramid at the top of the mountain so maybe it has been a sacred place for quite a long time. 

Now the place is kind of new age style. It reminds me Sedona in Arizona. You can find psychics and card readers and stores that sell amulets. People go to visit the pyramid to “absorb” the energy and to meditate. 

Actually, all the pyramid places are considered magical (Tenochtitlan, Chichen-Itza, Palenque, etc.).

  In the State of Veracruz there is also a city named Catemaco in Los Tuxtlas region where there is an annual witch and wizard meeting. The place itself it is supposed to be magical, it is next to a lagoon surrounded by tropical forest. The witches and wizards (brujos) are considered doctors or curanderos, they practice an alternative kind of medicine that mixes, herb medicine, religion and pagan traditions.


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## CrepiIlLupo

In the U.S., there is a town in Arizona called Sedona that some people think has mystical properties. Supposedly (to those who believe it) a bunch of different energies collide there and form vortexes which have healing powers. Interesting stuff.

_Edit: _Whoops, didn't see that Chtipays already mentioned it, sorry!


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## Zsanna

I do not know any place like this in Hungary and I wonder if it were connected to the fact that most of the country is flat (especially where I am from). I could imagine that hilly or mountainous areas inspire legends more easily.
Of course, there is always the "mirage" of the puszta but it is a simple physical effect, no magic in it whatsoever - at least for the locals.
Although it is not what you said you were interested in (but everybody mentions it so I came back to do so): my area was "known" for its witches (szegedi boszorkányok - the witches of Szeged), which is interesting maybe only because of a paradox. Although Hungary was one of the first in Europe to ban the burning of witches, the practice came back and lasted probably longer than elsewhere: towards the end of the 19th C. (I had an exam of this but I've already forgotten the exact time, sorry. )

I have not been to Transylvania yet but even without the Dracula stories it always sounded a bit magical to me, although more because of the countriside, its people and history than anything else.
I've heard that after the changes a sort of tourist attraction was created around the Dracula story but I do not know how people actually feel about the region over there.


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## alexacohen

I know of no place in Spain which fits the description.

As Outsider said, there is a strong Celtic tradition in Galicia; there is a very long and very beautiful beach there which is supossed to be magical, A Lanzada. However it's just magical for one day each year, the rest of the year is surfers' paradise. There women used to walk into the sea at midnight and let their bodies be covered by just nine waves.
The old menhirs and Celtic carved stones are supossed to have some kind of magic too: but only in the eyes of silly teenagers who go and get drunk beside them.

There are still many reputed "meigas" (witches) who usually know all that there is to be known of the medicinal uses of plants, iris roots as antiseptic, willow bark for the fever, hops as sleeping draughts. But they are not restricted to a place, nor have any meetings in the forests; they're as respected as doctors.


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## sokol

Setwale_Charm said:


> By the way, I have often wondered whether Transilvania actually has any reputation among Romanians that it does for the rest of the world due to the Dracula stories...


Vlad III. Draculea (1431-1476) was Duke of Wallachia = the lowlands just north of the Danube and _not _Transsylvania; he was known for his brutality towards his own people and neighbouring peoples.

So originally the person that gave his name for the Vampire myth was not from Transsylvania. Nevertheless, I would guess that Transsylvania with its deep forests and wolves roaming the mountaneous area that they _could _have some mythical reputation, but you'll have to wait for confirmation from someone more familiar with the region than I am.


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## Setwale_Charm

sokol said:


> Vlad III. Draculea (1431-1476) was Duke of Wallachia = the lowlands just north of the Danube and _not _Transsylvania; he was known for his brutality towards his own people and neighbouring peoples.
> 
> So originally the person that gave his name for the Vampire myth was not from Transsylvania. Nevertheless, I would guess that Transsylvania with its deep forests and wolves roaming the mountaneous area that they _could _have some mythical reputation, but you'll have to wait for confirmation from someone more familiar with the region than I am.


 
As far as I am concerned, Vlad the Impaler was a Transylvania-born Wallachian noble and reigned over that region as well. This is the primary region from which the legends and myths concerning him spread. I am not talking of the book featuring the Vampire which in fact borrowed nothing but a name from the reality.


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## dudasd

There's so-called "Wallachian area" in eastern Serbia (Homolje, a mountain region which is really inhabited by Wallachian people), and it is considered to be "witchy" and "magical". I doubt it has much with Dracula, that myth reached us much later, with western movies, but it's true that it looks slightly scary. I saw strange trees and strange houses there - some of the old houses had strange symbols and were painted in strange colours. There are other mountains in Serbia, but Homolje is just different. (Or maybe it just _looks _different after you hear all those stories about witchcraft.  )


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## Orreaga

Just look at places where New Age people have their meetings and rituals. Stonehenge, Mt. Shasta, etc. In the US Southwest (in addition to the "vortex" of Sedona already mentioned) Chaco Canyon is another site of interest. Once when I tried to go camping there I failed to notice that a planetary alignment was happening the same weekend I arrived, so New Age types from California to Germany were massing there and there was no room left to pitch my tent!

Every Native American tribe has its sacred places, and probably a number have taboo ones as well. As one example, the Navajos have four sacred mountains, and many believe the Holy Ones instructed them never to leave the area bounded by these mountains. 

Many Native American archaeological sites are considered to have special mystical properties by New Age people, but recently many sites protected by government bodies have prevented New Age groups from conducting rituals there, since these have often resulted in vandalism of artifacts.

The New Mexico Hispanic tradition also has a rich local folklore going back for centuries, so curanderismo and brujería are very much part of the local landscape. The Santuario de Chimayó is the site of a large pilgrimage every Good Friday, the dirt from the area is said to have healing properties when rubbed on the skin or consumed as a tincture.

But an endless list of such religious shrines from Lourdes to Lhasa may not be what you're after (certainly Outsider would cite Fatima, and Alexa her city of Santiago de Compostela), since they exist everywhere you go in any religion. Maybe you mean "bad mystical" reputation, not just "mystical *or* bad" reputation? Are you equating "mystical" with "bad"?


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## Setwale_Charm

Orreaga said:


> Just look at places where New Age people have their meetings and rituals. Stonehenge, Mt. Shasta, etc. In the US Southwest (in addition to the "vortex" of Sedona already mentioned) Chaco Canyon is another site of interest. Once when I tried to go camping there I failed to notice that a planetary alignment was happening the same weekend I arrived, so New Age types from California to Germany were massing there and there was no room left to pitch my tent!
> 
> Every Native American tribe has its sacred places, and probably a number have taboo ones as well. As one example, the Navajos have four sacred mountains, and many believe the Holy Ones instructed them never to leave the area bounded by these mountains.
> 
> Many Native American archaeological sites are considered to have special mystical properties by New Age people, but recently many sites protected by government bodies have prevented New Age groups from conducting rituals there, since these have often resulted in vandalism of artifacts.
> 
> The New Mexico Hispanic tradition also has a rich local folklore going back for centuries, so curanderismo and brujería are very much part of the local landscape. The Santuario de Chimayó is the site of a large pilgrimage every Good Friday, the dirt from the area is said to have healing properties when rubbed on the skin or consumed as a tincture.
> 
> But an endless list of such religious shrines from Lourdes to Lhasa may not be what you're after (certainly Outsider would cite Fatima, and Alexa her city of Santiago de Compostela), since they exist everywhere you go in any religion. Maybe you mean "bad mystical" reputation, not just "mystical *or* bad" reputation? Are you equating "mystical" with "bad"?


 
No, I am sying that the attitude may vary from hostile suspicion to something near admiration and habit to seek some hidden knowledge in such regions.


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## Orreaga

Setwale_Charm said:


> Having travelled extensively around the world, I have noticed that many countries have a certain region or province, sometimes more than one even, which are considered to be the den of witches, mystical phenomena, some sort of "sacred land" or yet "cursed land", the population of which are viewed as "strange" or believed to possess some special abilities or knowledge and therefore viewed with suspicion. Does anything like that exist in your culture or maybe some parts of your country used to be viewed that way in the past?


 
Can you give some specific examples from your travels that might help illustrate what you mean?


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## Setwale_Charm

dudasd said:


> There's so-called "Wallachian area" in eastern Serbia (Homolje, a mountain region which is really inhabited by Wallachian people), and it is considered to be "witchy" and "magical". I doubt it has much with Dracula, that myth reached us much later, with western movies, but it's true that it looks slightly scary. I saw strange trees and strange houses there - some of the old houses had strange symbols and were painted in strange colours. There are other mountains in Serbia, but Homolje is just different. (Or maybe it just _looks _different after you hear all those stories about witchcraft.  )


 
Interesting what you are saying!! I have long been interested in the culture and origins of the Vlachs and have heard a lot about their "reputation" in the Balkans. But could you please elaborate what was so strange about the trees and the houses and their colours? or is it something to do with the Vlach traditions having ill-fame among other Balkan nations?
But the way, would anybody agree with me that the Carpathian region is generally rich in that kind of mythology and the mountains themselves are quite special in that respect when it comes to folklore?


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## Setwale_Charm

Orreaga said:


> Can you give some specific examples from your travels that might help illustrate what you mean?


 

Well, again, various places in Eastern Europe which seems to have an inclination for such things in general, in Slovakia, Romania, Moldova. But even in the British Isles I am tempted to think of the reputation that the Celtic peoples, especially those from far-off regions held for centuries. We even had a discussion here at some point on the words which related to the Celtic reputation of mysticism and how they can be translated.


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## danielfranco

Well, all Americans seem to regard our Texan region to be devoid of anything even remotely interesting or our people here to have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, even though we tend to think of Texas as such a great place that it ought to be its own country.
So I guess we are the mystical region that induces floccinaucity in ordinary mortals. We are the Floccinaucinihilipilificationers!!

Beware...

D


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## Trisia

Erm, as a Romanian I suppose I could intervene... though I warn you I was never too interested so I may be either misinformed or making this up as I go. 

The mountains, as Setwale said, are indeed supposed to have mystical powers. In fact, the Sacred Mount of Kogainon (or Koigaionon, whichever gives you more Google hits sends more shivers down your spine), said to be somewhere in the Bucegi mountains, is the place where a leader appointed by the great god Zalmoxes and a Wolf spirit guard our people and fend off invaders, though now they lay dormant, King Arthur-style.

It's always been a bit hard for me to discern which parts are folklore and which are modern additions, except when the storyline itself is a bit of a giveaway (a boy and three fairy-like girls? Riiiight).

I don't think we have many "sacred lands" or "accursed" ones. The northern-eastern part, with hundreds of monasteries, is considered a holy place, but that's because there are churches every other metre, not because the land has some special properties.

The Dracula part -- if you promise not to tell anyone, I'll say we love to pretend we believe this when there's tourists around. If the guy's buying a tee, might as well give him a nice memory of the superstitious villagers -- this I've had from a Dracula-souvenir seller (though the words weren't exactly the same).

There's a lot more I could say, but I fear this post might be seen by some other Romanians and they could tell the truth and nothing but...


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## Setwale_Charm

Trisia said:


> Erm, as a Romanian I suppose I could intervene... though I warn you I was never too interested so I may be either misinformed or making this up as I go.
> 
> The mountains, as Setwale said, are indeed supposed to have mystical powers. In fact, the Sacred Mount of Kogainon (or Koigaionon, whichever gives you more Google hits sends more shivers down your spine), said to be somewhere in the Bucegi mountains, is the place where a leader appointed by the great god Zalmoxes and a Wolf spirit guard our people and fend off invaders, though now they lay dormant, King Arthur-style.
> 
> It's always been a bit hard for me to discern which parts are folklore and which are modern additions, except when the storyline itself is a bit of a giveaway (a boy and three fairy-like girls? Riiiight).
> 
> I don't think we have many "sacred lands" or "accursed" ones. The northern-eastern part, with hundreds of monasteries, is considered a holy place, but that's because there are churches every other metre, not because the land has some special properties.
> 
> The Dracula part -- if you promise not to tell anyone, I'll say we love to pretend we believe this when there's tourists around. If the guy's buying a tee, might as well give him a nice memory of the superstitious villagers -- this I've had from a Dracula-souvenir seller (though the words weren't exactly the same).
> 
> There's a lot more I could say, but I fear this post might be seen by some other Romanians and they could tell the truth and nothing but...


 
Are you sure it is  a modern thing only?
And I think, mountains as they remain unexplored and have a long history of people getting lost and disappearing there, are a den of supernatural for many cultures.


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## robbie_SWE

Trisia said:


> Erm, as a Romanian I suppose I could intervene... though I warn you I was never too interested so I may be either misinformed or making this up as I go.
> 
> The mountains, as Setwale said, are indeed supposed to have mystical powers. In fact, the Sacred Mount of Kogainon (or Koigaionon, whichever gives you more Google hits sends more shivers down your spine), said to be somewhere in the Bucegi mountains, is the place where a leader appointed by the great god Zalmoxes and a Wolf spirit guard our people and fend off invaders, though now they lay dormant, King Arthur-style.
> 
> It's always been a bit hard for me to discern which parts are folklore and which are modern additions, except when the storyline itself is a bit of a giveaway (a boy and three fairy-like girls? Riiiight).
> 
> I don't think we have many "sacred lands" or "accursed" ones. The northern-eastern part, with hundreds of monasteries, is considered a holy place, but that's because there are churches every other metre, not because the land has some special properties.
> 
> The Dracula part -- if you promise not to tell anyone, I'll say we love to pretend we believe this when there's tourists around. If the guy's buying a tee, might as well give him a nice memory of the superstitious villagers -- this I've had from a Dracula-souvenir seller (though the words weren't exactly the same).
> 
> There's a lot more I could say, but I fear this post might be seen by some other Romanians and they could tell the truth and nothing but...


 
Nicely put Trisia (there is no real truth )!

Dracula is strictly a modern concoction, I mean Vlad Tepes was and still is perceived by many as being a hero in Romania. But you know what they say; "if you can't beat it join it!". I could stand in the middle of town and scream until I loose my voice, telling the true story about Dracula but nobody really cares. People need this myth.

I've always thought that Romania has become (thanks to Western literature and insolence) one of the most mystical countries in Europe. I personally don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. It depends on my mood. 

Besides Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains there are loads of mystical places. Here are my personal favourites :

*Adamclisi* = a place in the Eastern parts of Romania named by the Turks who thought that the monument they found in the middle of nowhere was an old church. They named it "church of man". It was actually a Roman tropaeum with beautiful engravings, ruined by many invasions. 

*The Sphinx of Bucegi* = nature at its best, really creepy to see. 

*Trajan's Bridge* = only ruins remain today, but it was a Roman bridge over the Danube close to the city of Drobeta. A massive construction! 

*City of Sighişoara *= the whole city is a wonder. Taken directly from the Middle Ages! 

These places are scattered across the country. The regions of Oltenia and Wallachia are also very mystical with many special places. I always thought that the Romanian countryside was directly taken from "The Lord of the Rings". 

Hope this kind of answered some of your questions Setwale_Charm and that my little list inspired you to travel to these places and experience them yourself! 

 robbie


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## fenixpollo

Chtipays said:


> It reminds me Sedona in Arizona. You can find psychics and card readers and stores that sell amulets. People go to visit the pyramid to “absorb” the energy and to meditate.


Yes, there are lots of psychics and mystics and curio shops, but there is no pyramid that I've seen. 





CrepiIlLupo said:


> In the U.S., there is a town in Arizona called Sedona that some people think has mystical properties. Supposedly (to those who believe it) a bunch of different energies collide there and form vortexes which have healing powers. Interesting stuff.





Orreaga said:


> Just look at places where New Age people have their meetings and rituals. Stonehenge, Mt. Shasta, etc. In the US Southwest (in addition to the "vortex" of Sedona already mentioned)


 Perhaps you are thinking of the "focus locations" of 1987's Harmonic Convergence. It was believed that there were several sites that were focal points of spiritual energy. One of them was in the red rocks of the Sedona area. Sedona's inclusion in this list was due to the striking natural beauty of the area, as well as to the fact that Sedona had long been a gathering site for hippies, free spirits, artists and environmentalists, and is a mecca for the New Age movement. In addition, there are many sacred sites of the Yavapai tribe throughout the area.

However, as far as Sedona being considered by the majority of Arizonans (apart from the Yavapai and the Apache that live there now) "a place of magic" in the region... No.


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## Sepia

I'd say, Iceland is such a place. People believing in fairies, elfs and other things out of ancient traditions, and when they hear "troll", the first thing they think of is NOT somebody writing nasty things in a forum on the Internet. Hot rod freaks living next door to a völva - a sort of Nordic female shaman - and nobody there finds that the least bit unusual. And they even speak a language that Leif Eriksson probably would have understood. 

Iceland is definitely such a place.


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## avok

robbie_SWE said:


> Dracula is strictly a modern concoction, I mean Vlad Tepes was and still is perceived by many as being a hero in Romania. But you know what they say; "if you can't beat it join it!". I could stand in the middle of town and scream until I loose my voice, telling the true story about Dracula but nobody really cares.
> 
> Besides Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains there are loads of mystical places. Here are my personal favourites :
> 
> *Adamclisi* = a place in the Eastern parts of Romania named by the Turks who thought that the monument they found in the middle of nowhere was an old church. They named it "church of man".


 
Oh my God! I have to intervene here 

Vlad Tepes is the most horrific figure in Turkish history. We call him as *"Kazıklı Voyvoda"* and "kazıklı" means "*Impaler*" because, just in one case he had impaled  20,000 Turks. So I can understand why Tranislvania has had this kind of a reputation.

In turkish "church of man" would be "adam kilisesi" or "adam-kilise"


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## robbie_SWE

avok said:


> Oh my God! I have to intervene here
> 
> Vlad Tepes is the most horrific figure in Turkish history. We call him as *"Kazıklı Voyvoda"* and "kazıklı" means "*Impaler*" because, just in one case he had impaled 20,000 Turks. So I can understand why Tranislvania has had this kind of a reputation.
> 
> In turkish "church of man" would be "adam kilisesi" or "adam-kilise"


 
You're right Avok about Vlad Tepes, but the same thing can be said by most rulers in this world. For instance many Turkish profiles are seen as heroes in Turkey, while they're called dictators and bloodthirsty rulers by others. It's all relative! 

Adamclisi is the Romanian adaptation of the Turkish name, its rightful name being Adam-kilise. 

 robbie


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## Mr Punch

In the UK, apart from the obvious choice of Stonehenge you have the whole of that area, which is supposedly riddled with ley lines (lines of energy if you believe in them!). I noted at least 40 burial mounds I could see from Stonehenge. It's a matter of national shame for the UK that the site is treated so poorly when compared with the Valley of the Kings just north of Dublin (another magical place) with Dowth, Nowth and Negrange mounds and scores of others.

Avebury would be another obvious choice, as would West Kennet long barrow (where the drovers' track and standing stone lines lead to from Averbury proper), and Silbury Hill.

Glastonbury Tor would be another obvious choice. It's no coincidence that the huge (originally) hippyish music festival staretd up there. You have the legend of the Glastonbury Thorn (supposedly the first haw in the Uk brought by Joseph of Arimathea as a dead staff), the huge over a thousand year old oaks Gog and Magog, the Tor itself (often associated with Arthurian legend and spoken of as an island of magic) and the red and white springs within a few feet of each otehr (forget their names), with their healing powers...

Yr Ifl (sp? 'The Rivals' in English - or 'The Town of the Giants' on the Lleyn Peninsula) - a place that literally left me awestruck the first time I went there (a large Iron Age and beyond hilltop fort and town with unbelievable views and a very strong sense of 'place'). I found an ordinary-looking if a little larger than average oak tree of only probably 2-300 years near there with the base of its trunk festooned in votive offerings of all kinds... photos, ribbons, soft toys, mirrors, models... even if it's a recent tradition it shows the feeling of the place.

And lastly of note from my home - Kilpeck.  A Saxon church in Hereford on the old border with Wales, with a long history of being a sacred site way before the Christians came and subverted it, and with its fine gargoyles of shela-na-gigs, Bosch-like horrors and almost modern cartoonish characters.

There are many more, but unfortunately, between the early Christians and the Victorian Christians most have been vandalised unforgiveably.

Here in Japan, many places are worshipped as they are - the kami (gods, spirits) reside in trees, rocks, mountains, the very earth and are indicated as such. I've felt that sense of place in a few temples and shrines, but none so noticeably as the little mentioned Ishiwari-san (lit. Mount 'Split-Rock' - the huge split boulder itself is revered) next to Fuji; Mount Kurayama (nr Kyoto) where Yoshitsune was taught martial arts as an orphan by the yamabushi (mountain warrior-priests) and tengu (forest crow-demons); Mount Takao overlooking Tokyo - another home of yamabushi and tengu; and a chilling little temple whose name I couldn't read in Gunma prefecture, which had the Lords of Hell lined up prominently with a scarily glassy-faced realistic Buddha statue, as well as an abominable-looking fanged undead-like Fudo Myoo unlike any I'd seen before.


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## Chtipays

I forgot the Silence Zone in the state of Durango,  Mexico, where there are magnetic disturbances that make difficult to get the radio waves. There are a people believing that it is a zone for extraterrestrials flying saucers to land and stuff like that.


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## Orreaga

Crestone, Colorado (US) is another place which attracts seekers of many types.  At least one Tibetan Buddhist lama has claimed the location is one of the best in the world for spiritual practice, in part because it is near the Continental Divide with waters flowing in both directions.  Seven Tibetan Buddhist centers, one Zen Buddhist center, two Hindu centers, a Taoist retreat and one Roman Catholic Carmelite monastery are located here, as well as American Indian sanctuaries.


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