# αναμμένοι κατάλογοι



## OssianX

Yet again (sigh) I can't make semantic sense of this phrase, and wonder if I'm missing some other meaning for one of the words.  If κατάλογοι are lists or catalogs (or phone books?), how can they be αναμμένοι, which my dictionaries apply to lights ("on") or coals ("live")?

The whole sentence: "Το άγαλμα ασάλευτο κοιτούσε να φτερουγίζουν οι αναμμένοι κατάλογοι μες στον καθρέφτη."  I don't think that helps much.  I can see a phone book fluttering, but I can't see it "on."


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## orthophron

Unless "αναμμένοι" is used metaphorically, it seems that the catalogs/phone books are on fire.


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## Cynastros

give us more text to see and to understand


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## OssianX

OK, but I don't think it will help much:

ΤΗΝ ΤΕΤΑΡΤΗ ΝΥΧΤΑ

Οι τρεις βασιλιάδες βημάτιζαν στην αίθουσα με τις παντόφλες τους·
ο ένας κρατούσε το κηροπήγιο· ο άλλος είταν ξεκούμπωτος ―
φαίνονταν τ’ αχαμνά του μαραμένα· ο τρίτος φορούσε
ένα χάρτινο δίκωχο.  Η λάμψη της φωτιάς του περιπτέρου
περνούσε απ’ τις κουρτίνες.  Ο μεγάλος καναπές μετακινιόταν.
Οι πυροβολισμοί πλησίαζαν.  Το άγαλμα ασάλευτο κοιτούσε
να φτερουγίζουν οι αναμμένοι κατάλογοι μες στον καθρέφτη.
Το παιδί γύρισε κατάχλωμο, τρομαγμένο.  Δε βρήκε το γιατρό.

                            [Γιάννης Ρίτσος]


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## orthophron

> Η λάμψη της φωτιάς του περιπτέρου...


A whole kiosk is burning.
ανάβω means light (a fire/ a cigarette) or switch on (e.g. the lights).
αναμμένος (past participle) means lighted or burning.


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## OssianX

OK, but how does κατάλογοι relate to the περίπτερο?  There are a couple of sentences in between, and I'm not sure I see the connection.  (Would κατάλογοι mean something like "the stock" of the kiosk?)  But you may be right!


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## orthophron

Well, a περίπτερο (I hope a kiosk is meant; not a summer house, or a pavilion) has a lot of paper in it.

I also hope it all is not an OCR* error. I mean, it can't be "ανοιγμένοι κατάλογοι" (open phone books) can it ? 
OCR* : Optical Character Recognition


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## OssianX

I wish I had OCR for Greek, but I don't.  Instead, I typed the book of poems I'm working on into the computer.  (It was useful for getting a first sense of the whole thing, anyway.)  But I've proofread my transcription--once as a whole, and then poem by poem as I work through them for a first rough translation--and I certainly double-check before I ask questions here.  I don't mean to sound defensive, I'm just saying that I have *so* many queries that I'm careful to avoid wasting the time of you and the other very helpful people on this list with *really* dumb questions.

Thanks.  I didn't realize, by the way, that περίπτερο could also mean "summer house"; that may come in handy.


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## Cynastros

Η λάμψη της *φωτιάς του περιπτέρου*..   αυτό , δείχνει ότι το περίπτερο καίγεται .. άρα οι κατάλογοι *καίγονται* μαζί του , και το είδωλό τους φαίνεται ..{flit  -   φτερουγίζει   ή   Κυματίζει }.. στον καθρέφτη κάποιας αίθουσας -δωματίου από απέναντι.
   Αναμμένοι =  burning-  enlightened ].
Το πιθανότερο είναι αυτοί οι κατάλογοι να ήταν τηλεφωνικοί , διότι εκείνα τα χρόνια μόνο τα περίπτερα και τα καφενεία διέθεταν τηλέφωνο για το κοινό.
sorry not translated...  the automatic translator is not correct.


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## OssianX

Ah, that is a very good point about telephone books.  (Sorry to answer in English.  I read Greek slowly but scrupulously, but I write it even more slowly, and with too many foolish errors.)  I see what you mean about connecting the περίπτερο with the κατάλογοι, and I'll see if I can work that into the poem.  Ευχαριστώ πολύ.

(Maybe I misunderstand φωτιά.  Couldn't it just mean "lights," rather than fire?)


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## ireney

The whole poem seems to refer to something I just cannot get. Now I have no idea what these catalogs actually _are_, but if we are not interested in that (or can put it aside for a moment) I'd say that what this specific phrase refers to is the pages of these catalogs being on fire and "flying" on the currents that the heat from the fire of the kiosk creates. At least that's the imagery these words create in my mind's eye. Sorry for my convoluted English.


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## Cynastros

(Maybe I misunderstand φωτιά.  Couldn't it just mean "lights," rather than fire?) 

perhaps no, because the text speaks about of a fire - φωτιά , not ..lights- φώτα, in περίπτερο . in Greek's,  ΦΩΣ means light of the sun, or <φώς ή φώτα, many>  light's from the electric lamb's..  the light  from a candle, etc.   Also  from the same root comes  the ΦΩΤΙΑ-fire, [ πυρκαιά].


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## OssianX

Thanks, Cynastros and ireney.  I was certainly misreading φωτιά, and it makes quite a difference in the coherence of the whole poem.  A preliminary version, then:

     On the Fourth Night

The three kings stepped into the hall in their slippers;
the one held the candlestick; the next was unbuttoned--
his genitals looked made of marble; the third wore
a paper kepi.  The gleam of fire from the kiosk
glared through the curtains.  The big couch shifted.
The gunshots drew nearer.  Motionless the statue watched
as the phone books aflame fluttered in the mirror.
The child came back ghastly and terrified.  He didn't find the doctor.


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## Cynastros

φαίνονταν τ’ αχαμνά του μαραμένα =  wilted - sluggish, had no vitality ?[they have no energy - the genitals ]
[not] his genitals looked made of marble; the third wore..


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## OssianX

Oops.  I let the poetry get ahead of the plain sense.  Sorry!  Make the line

his genitals looked withered; the third wore


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## Cynastros

{hehe} but it was another nice version .


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## OssianX

Thanks.  But the rule for a poet translating poems has to be: don't substitute the poem you might have written for the one he wrote.  Though of course at some point that's exactly what you end up doing ...  What a dodgy business!


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