# Swedish: ett vitt äktenskap



## okcomter

is it a translated loan word from english?


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## Södertjej

What do you mean loan word? Those are all Swedish words. If you mean the expression, it's also used in other languages, not only in English.


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## missTK

What does it mean? I've never heard that expression (white marriage?).

Wait, is it a mistranslation of "white wedding"?


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## hanne

Google is your friend : "white marriage: A marriage without sexual relations." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/white marriage)
Various hits using the Swedish spelling will indicate the same meaning, but it's easier to find the definition for English...

The dictionary also suggests that the expression comes from French. So I'd assume that's where the Swedes got it from, rather than through English.


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## okcomter

Thank you guys. I was just curious.

A white marriage means a marriage on paper. A fake marriage for a citizenship.

Am i right maybe? 

Not sure, we don't have this expression in my mother tongue either.


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## Södertjej

Well, that's an "updated" use of the expression but originally it simply meant marriage without sex and it's common in Spanish too, not sure if it comes from French, or Latin or what.


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## Wilma_Sweden

I've never heard the expression in Swedish until now.

<Moderator note> Forum rules require you to give the context of the word you are asking about. Please state the sentence in which you found the word, and any other background information about the text in which you found it. >

About loan words: I guess you could label some compounds or expressions as 'loan words' from English, even if the words in themselves are Swedish. However, if the resulting Swedish expression means nothing, it's not a loan, just a mistranslation. In some cases, the corresponding Swedish expression may mean something completely different, and these are usually called false friends.

I'm not sure what we're dealing with here as I'm unsure what the original author meant. Please provide the context as requested above.


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## Lars H

okcomter said:


> is it a translated loan word from english?



Hej

My guess is that this expression is older than the English language itself. 

A "matrimonio bianco", "vitt äktenskap", or more commonly "ofullbordat äktenskap" is a rather important concept in the canonic laws within the Catholic church. Actually this is one of very few reasons for annullating a marriage that the Catholic church accepts.
So probably does this expression exists - or has existed - in many Christian countries. 

The "white" perhaps refers to "white bed sheets" - sheets without blood stains - after the wedding night. Bloodstains on the sheets were in old times not only seen as proofs of the brides virginity, but more important proof of sexual intercourse - meaning the consummation of the marriage. 

Lars


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## Södertjej

Lars H said:


> The "white" perhaps refers to "white bed sheets" - sheets without blood stains - after the wedding night. Bloodstains on the sheets were in old times not only seen as proofs of the brides virginity, but more important proof of sexual intercourse - meaning the consummation of the marriage.


White is the colour of purity, that's why brides wear white dresses, as a symbol of virginity (well, at least in the past). Never heard of "white bed sheets" though.


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## Lars H

Yes, but the "white" in this particular context does not signal purity. 
It signals a unconsummated marriage, which is a negative thing, since this opposes the whole idea of marriage.

So, we should wish the wedding bride to be dressed in white, but we should not wish the marriage as such to be "white"


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## Södertjej

Lars H said:


> Yes, but the "white" in this particular context does not signal purity.
> It signals a unconsummated marriage,


Oh yes it's connected to that idea, it means marriage without sex and sex was the opposite to purity by the traditional patriarchal system... 

Please don't get me started on that! I easily get carried away when discussing all that old opressive symbolism!


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## cocuyo

Södertjej said:


> Oh yes it's connected to that idea, it means marriage without sex and sex was the opposite to purity by the traditional patriarchal system...
> 
> Please don't get me started on that! I easily get carried away when discussing all that old opressive symbolism!



Me too. And that blood stain thing and virginity is one of my pet peeves. 

There simply is no such thing as hymen and proof of virginity. It's all lore without substance. Blood on the bedsheets would mean that someone's hurt in some way, unless she's menstrruating.


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## Lars H

Södertjej said:


> Oh yes it's connected to that idea, it means marriage without sex and sex was the opposite to purity by the traditional patriarchal system...
> 
> Please don't get me started on that! I easily get carried away when discussing all that old opressive symbolism!



Oj! Please don't get me wrong on this topic. I don't express my personal views, I am only reflecting what I think is the church's opinions, and this only in order to try to interpret the expression "vitt äktenskap". I am neither a religious nor a very conservative person.

Although the Catholic church strongly dislikes divorces, apparently it dislikes "matrimonios blancos" even more, since the church actually see them as one of very few valid reasons for "annullation" of a marriage.
This is why I don't feel comfortable with connecting "vitt" in "vitt äktenskap" with purity. I hope you can see the contradiction.   

But why would the church support sex within the marriage? For obvious reasons. Without sex, any christian congregation would be doomed to face extinction sooner or later...


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## Södertjej

Oh, I know, don't worry I wasn't accusing you of being some kind of Christian Taliban.

I simply meant that "white" is often used meaning "no sex", not as the opposite to "blood=evidence of sexual activity". White is a nice word to avoid using "sex". So no, there's no contradiction. White voices: children voices, the sexual hormones haven't influenced their voices yet. Pure angel like voices. Therefore the use of white=purity=no sex is used in many contexts.

I didn't say the Church encouraged "white marriages", but wasn't certainly against them either. 

Besides, the term is old and regarding the point of view of the Catholic church, keep in mind we're talking about something stemming from the past. There's a very funny novel (and film) about a Spanish king who had problems in getting the queen pregnant and the lengths his confessor went to to avoid "fornication" even if it was to get an heir.

The Catholic church doesn't dislike divorce. There's no divorce at all.


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## Wilma_Sweden

*<Moderator note> I suggest that we pause this discussion until the OP has provided the required context information that I requested a few posts ago!
*
/Wilma


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## moza_moza

Just to confirm that the expression "mariage blanc" (=vitt äktenskap) is well known and used in France, it did stem up from the old catholic meaning of marriage without sex, but it has now taken much more the modern meaning of a marriage only on paper (for citizenship, for example), where people sometimes don't even live together... assimilated as a fraud. There is great debate around mixed marriage that are scrutinized for fear of a "Mariage blanc", with the officials from the state making inquiries to verify it is not.

It seems i encounter the Swedish term mostly as marriage without sex, maybe associated to the idea of asexuality (more of a partnership). My experience here is limited since i only search for the term on the internet and found mostly sexology discussion. Maybe there is here a slight difference. I guess loaned expressions evolve slightly when used in a different language.

I hope this is brings something to the discussion. I'm a new Swedish learner, and i thank you a lot for this forum.


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