# wala nemsh il layl



## saqib

Salaam,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with the colloquial meaning of the phrase, _wala nemsh il layl_.

I do not know much arabic so all I gather is:

"Not even a freckle of the night"

Thank you.


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## elroy

More context would help, but it looks like "I don't (even) sleep at night" in a North African dialect.


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## Tariq_Ibn_zyad

elroy said:


> More context would help, but it looks like "I don't (even) sleep at night" in a North African dialect.


I don't think so,at least if you consider North Africa as Tunisa,Algeria and Morocco
-This verb is very rare in North Africa(we rather use rged/rqed or n3as),and if it was conjugated it would be: ma nenemsh.
-The construction with "wala" sounds more eastern to me
Also the article "il" doesn't exist,it's either "el" or "l-"
-"layl" with a diphtong is only used in a few archaic pre-hilali dialects


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## elroy

Well, I know next to nothing about North African dialects so that was just a guess.  I can tell you that it's not Levantine either. We would say "Wala banaam il-leel."

-When "wala" precedes a verb, there is no "sh" after the verb.
-The "ba" (or just "b" in Syria and Lebanon) is necessary.
-The MSA "layl" becomes "leel" in all dialects - except for Lebanese, I think. 

I would be interested in knowing what dialect this is - or if it's a curious mix of various dialects.


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## cherine

Except for the "e" in nemsh and "layl" instead of "leel", this is -almost- clearly Egyptian. It may even be taken from an Egyptian song. But it would be wala namsh(i) 'l-leel.

Maybe the context would help us be more sure.


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## elroy

And would it be first person present (from "ana banaam") or third person masculine past (from "huwwe naam")?

I didn't know that in Egyptian the construction was "wala" + verb + "sh"! Is the other variant ("wala" [+ "b-"] + verb) at least possible?


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## cherine

elroy said:


> And would it be first person present (from "ana banaam") or third person masculine past (from "huwwe naam")?


It would be "he" : and he didn't sleep ولا نامش الليل 
In fuS7a it would be: ولم يَنَم الليل


> I didn't know that in Egyptian the construction was "wala" + verb + "sh"! Is the other variant ("wala" [+ "b-"] + verb) at least possible?


It's not the common usage, but it's not wrong.
We usually say:
ma rawwa7sh wala akal 7aaga men embaare7
He didn't go home nor eat anything since yesterday.
But we can also say: 
ma rawwa7sh wala akalsh(e) 7aaga... (even if it sounds a bit heavy).


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## elroy

cherine said:


> It would be "he" : and he didn't sleep ولا نامش الليل
> In fuS7a it would be: ولم يَنَم الليل


 Ok, that makes more sense. The "naam" possibility only occured to me later. Still, in Levantine the sentence would not have a "sh". We would say "Wala naam il-leel." 


> It's not the common usage, but it's not wrong.
> We usually say:
> ma rawwa7sh wala akal 7aaga men embaare7
> He didn't go home nor eat anything since yesterday.
> But we can also say:
> ma rawwa7sh wala akalsh(e) 7aaga... (even if it sounds a bit heavy).


 We would only say "Ma rawwa7esh wala akal ishi min imbaare7." We would never add "(e)sh" to "akal."


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## cherine

elroy said:


> We would only say "Ma rawwa7esh wala akal ishi min imbaare7." We would never add "(e)sh" to "akal."


I can easily understand that  as I said, the "sh" version is heavy, and is not common at all.


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## Beate

Hello,

in tunisian dialect "nemshi" means "I will go"
May be it is "nemshi lleel"? Something like "I will go in the evening?"

bye Beate


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## Josh_

I think you guys are over-analyzing it.  The word for freckles is نمش (namash), is it not?  The only thing is that نمش is the collective while نمشة (namasha) is the singular.  So "not even a freckle of the night" would be ولا نمشة الليل (wala namashit il-leel).  But possibly, in whatever dialect Saqib heard this in namash, or nemsh, is used for the singular.  More context would definitely be helpful.


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## cherine

Sorry Josh, but... are you sure _*we*_ are over-analyzing? Saqib asked about the meaning of the Arabic sentence and not the other way round.

More important, نمشة الليل doesn't make much sense (by the way you misplaced the ن and م  in your typing of نمش-نمشة ) while to my native ear نامش (didn't sleep) and نمشي (go/walk) make more sense.

But we all seem to agree that we need the context.


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## Josh_

Yes, it is true Saqib asked about the meaning of the Arabic, and not the other way around, but he also gave a suggestion (maybe something heard from the context) in which 'freckles' was included. In addition to that, Saqib stated that he does not know much Arabic but something led him to suggest 'freckles' and not 'sleep' or 'walk'. Maybe that something was the context in which the phrase was heard. This is what led me to suggest that it was just 'freckles.'

Literally, the phrase might not make much sense, but it might have some metaphorical meaning. A freckle is a small spot and from that maybe we can consider stars the "freckles of night."  And so "not even a freckle of the night" could mean "not even a star (was showing, or whatever)." Maybe the phrase was heard in a song, a poem, etc. Of course more context is needed such as where is was from, surrounding sentences, etc.  Anyway, I don't see why it is so far-fetched that the phrase could be "a freckle of night"  and thus be summarily dismissed.  Every so often we deal with phrases that don't make much literal sense, but metaphorically they make sense.


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## cherine

Sorry Josh, I didn't mean -nor even could I- summarily dismiss what you said. It's just that نَمَش الليل is an expression that I never heard or read, and I think that the fact that no one else thought of this explanation can show how far from our minds such a metaphor can be. While on the other hand, not sleeping the night is a very common one, specially in the context of love, thinking about the loved one....

I guess that Saqib is the one who can help us figure this out by giving us context.


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## saqib

Salaam, 

Sorry everyone, my fault for leaving you hanging. I forgot how different Arabic is spoken in a colloquial sense based on region. Also, I do not have any idea what this could mean myself. My original guess was based on an extremely rudimentary knowledge of arabic so it has no basis at all. But anyway, there is not much context to this phrase. The only thing I can think of is that it was said by itself as one sentence, by a Palestinian girl. That's about it. Once again, I apologize for introducing a seemingly unsolvable mystery.


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## cherine

No problem Saqib. But could you please try to remember what was said before this sentence, or even after it? It's really weird to be said like this out of no where, specially that the "wa" at the begining infers a continuation of something that was said before.

Please?


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