# schon mal



## cheshire

Es geht *schon mal* gut.​Should "schon mal" be considered an idiom? Is the meaning "already" preserved in "schon" when you combine it with "mal"?


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## FloVi

cheshire said:


> Is the meaning "already" preserved in "schon" when you combine it with "mal"?



No, "schon mal" has the meaning of "one in a thousand". It's a sceptical way to do an optimistic statement. ;-)

Und das soll funktionieren? (And that should work?)
Das geht schon mal gut. (It will work from time to time)

Ist more usual with the past tense.

Das klappt nie. (It will never work)
Das ging schon mal gut. (It has already worked for once)


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## sneeka2

Depends on the context, FloVi! You're right about your example, but what about this?

"Hast Du schon mal das mexikanische Bier probiert?" - "Did you already try the mexican beer?"

Same meaning in German (in the sense of "ever before"), but best translated as "already".


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## Whodunit

I'd translate it with "sometimes:"

Das kann schon mal passieren. (Things sometimes happen)


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## elroy

sneeka2 said:


> "Hast Du schon mal das mexikanische Bier probiert?" - "Did you already try the mexican beer?"
> 
> Same meaning in German (in the sense of "ever before"), but best translated as "already".


 Actually, the best translation would be "ever" with the present perfect: "Have you ever tried Mexican beer?"  "Already" would be a Germanism. 

As for the other context, I think "from time to time" or "once in a while" best capture the connotation of the German phrase.


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## sneeka2

elroy said:


> Actually, the best translation would be "ever" with the present perfect: "Have you ever tried Mexican beer?"  "Already" would be a Germanism.



Eh? Sitting at my usual bar, reading the menu, I'd ask my friend "Hast Du schon mal das mexikanische Bier probiert?" / "Have you (already) tried the Mexican beer?" ("I wonder if it's any good here.") I was talking about THE beer, not Mexican beer in general. Would you say "ever" in this context?


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## elroy

sneeka2 said:


> Eh? Sitting at my usual bar, reading the menu, I'd ask my friend "Hast Du schon mal das mexikanische Bier probiert?" / "Have you (already) tried the Mexican beer?" ("I wonder if it's any good here.") I was talking about THE beer, not Mexican beer in general. Would you say "ever" in this context?


 No, but I wouldn't say "already" either.  

I'd say, "Have you tried the Mexican beer *yet*?"


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## sneeka2

Alright, fair enough. There has to be a situation where "already" is appropriate though, no?!


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## elroy

sneeka2 said:


> Alright, fair enough. There has to be a situation where "already" is appropriate though, no?!


 In certain contexts, maybe.  Auf Anhieb fällt mir nichts ein.


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## gaer

sneeka2 said:


> Alright, fair enough. There has to be a situation where "already" is appropriate though, no?!


There may be theoretically a case where you can "force" the word "already" to work, but in most cases you will create a Denglish sentence.

Strangely, this use of "already" seems to be carried over from Yiddish to English as spoken by certain groups of people.

"Enough already!" (I would never say that, but it has roughly the meaning of, "That's enough!"

Gaer


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## cheshire

I learned that "already" used in a question sentence it shows one's "irritation or frustration" that something should have better been done already.


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## sneeka2

"What? You already tried the Mexican beer? Without telling me?!"
"Was? Du hast das mexikanische Bier schon mal getrunken? Und mir nichts davon erzählt?!"  ^_^;;


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## elroy

sneeka2 said:


> "What? You already tried the Mexican beer? Without telling me?!"
> "Was? Du hast das mexikanische Bier schon mal getrunken? Und mir nichts davon erzählt?!"  ^_^;;


 That would be fine, although I might prefer the present perfect again: "You*'ve *already tried...?".


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## gaer

elroy said:


> That would be fine, although I might prefer the present perfect again: "You*'ve *already tried...?".


"What, ya mean ya already tried it without tellin' me?"

I can see that in speech. There it works fine, because we tend to be sloppy with tenses informally. But I agree that "you've" is definitely better formally, if we can use "formal" together with showing shock over not having been introduced to Mexican beer. 

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:


> "What, ya mean ya already tried it without tellin' me?"
> 
> I can see that in speech.


 Yes. In fact, American English tends to be more relaxed when it comes to the use of the present perfect in certain contexts in which British English uses it more often. Consider, for example, "I just came back" and "I have just come back," the latter being more common in British English. But we're getting a little off-topic, as usual.  


cheshire said:


> I learned that "already" used in a question sentence it shows one's "irritation or frustration" that something should have better been done already.


 Could you elaborate on that? I don't think that every instance of "already" in a question sentence has to indicate irritation or frustration, but maybe I'm missing something.


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## sneeka2

gaer said:


> ...if we can use "formal" together with showing shock over not having been introduced to Mexican beer.



"I'm tremendously shocked about your having tried the Mexican beer without my knowledge!"

*cough*cough*


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## Schwichtenhövel

elroy said:


> No, but I wouldn't say "already" either.
> 
> I'd say, "Have you tried the Mexican beer *yet*?"


 
Would it be possible to say 'Did you already try that beer?'


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## Whodunit

Schwichtenhövel said:


> Would it be possible to say 'Did you already try that beer?'


 
Impossible is nothing.  However, it would sound strange to native English speakers in most contexts. Consider this:

Results *1* - *10* of about *319,000* for *"did you already*. (*0.44* seconds)
Results *1* - *10* of about *1,050,000* for *"have you already*. (*0.93* seconds)
Results *1* - *10* of about *60,000,000* for *"have you ever*. (*0.78* seconds)


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## elroy

Schwichtenhövel said:


> Would it be possible to say 'Did you already try that beer?'


 Yes, in certain contexts, in casual spoken American English.


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## JiPaGiA

what about "schon mal" in this sentence:

Hier haben Sie schon mal die Buchungsreferenz...

I don't think the meaning here is: already, ever, yet, sometimes... it's rather an oral expression but I don't guess what exactly.


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## sneeka2

JiPaGiA said:


> Hier haben Sie schon mal die Buchungsreferenz...



I'd say it has exactly the meaning of "already", in the sense of "in advance" or "before anything else".


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## Hutschi

cheshire said:


> Es geht *schon mal* gut.​Should "schon mal" be considered an idiom? Is the meaning "already" preserved in "schon" when you combine it with "mal"?


 

In your context it can have two meanings:

1. some times (as stated above in the other answers) - In some cases, there will be no catastrophe.
2. already (it works already not bad)

It depends on what is "es".

In the second case it is often used also in the form: "Es geht schon mal ganz gut."

When I read your question, at first I found my second example, later I read the others, so I found that it has indeed two meenings.


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## elroy

sneeka2 said:


> I'd say it has exactly the meaning of "already", in the sense of "in advance" or "before anything else".


 Again, in English "already" would not be used in this context.

If it's absolutely necessary, the "schon mal" idea could be expressed through other parts of the sentence:

*I know it's well in advance of the flight date*, but here's the booking reference number.
I'm sending you the booking reference number *now, and I'll send the other information later*.


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## Hutschi

How is it in "Es geht schon mal gut"?

I know, that "already" is not exact.

It should be added additional context:

We did not do much, but it works good (already?), it is a first success, but more work may be required.

How can I say this short in English?


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## elroy

In that context, I wouldn't have a problem with "We're already doing / Things are already going (pretty) well."


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