# il mio cuore solo infine ripara



## JamesM

Hello, IE forum! This is my first post here. I'm usually found on the English Only forum or lurking on the French-English forum, picking up new

I have a friend who is writing an aria-type lyric and has run her chorus through an online translation program, which has probably done a notoriously bad job of translating her words. 

I've had Singer's Italian in college and that's the extent of it, so I'm not much help in checking the Italian.

I wonder if you could look at the following lines and let me know if there are any egregious errors in the Italian, or if the lines are particularly unpoetic or awkward in Italian. I'll provide the English and Italian versions for comparison.

[ch] _but In The Night so dark,_
_in my dream, I find the spring again;_
_I see your shining smile,_
_in your arms my lonely heart finally mends-_
_when I dream... In The Night._

[ch] _ma di notte nell'oscurità così_
_nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la molla;_
_Vedo il vostro sorriso brillante,_
_nelle vostre armi, il mio cuore solo infine ripara_
_quando sogno, Nella notte_ 


Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## lsp

Some notes to start...

Nella notte così oscura
find the spring: what kind of spring? the season = primavera
arms - braccia (armi is miltary arms)
finally - alla fine

I think keeping the most formal construction is OK for an aria, but is it intentional (translators always choose it), or should we correct that, too?


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## JamesM

lsp said:


> Some notes to start...
> 
> Nella notte così oscura
> find the spring: what kind of spring?
> arms - braccia
> finally - alla fine


 
Thanks for the quick response, lsp! And thanks for the notes.

"spring" as in one of the four seasons.

Adding in your corrections, it would now look like:

[ch] _ma di notte cosi oscura_
_nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la primavera;_
_Vedo il vostro sorriso brillante,_
_nelle vostre braccia, il mio cuore solo alla fine ripara_
_quando sogno, Nella notte_ 


Would you use "vostro/vostre" in a love song? Is that the formal second person in Italian? Just wondering... I'm working from my understanding of French, such as it is.

[edit] It looksl like you were wondering the same thing.


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## Paulfromitaly

lsp said:


> Some notes to start...
> 
> Nella notte così oscura
> find the spring: what kind of spring? the season = primavera
> arms - braccia (armi is miltary arms)
> finally - alla fine



One more suggestion: to mend = guarire, hence guarisce in this case.


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## Lello4ever

By "you" you mean one or more people?


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## lsp

JamesM said:


> Thanks for the quick response, lsp!  And thanks for the notes.
> 
> "spring" as in one of the four seasons.
> 
> Adding in your corrections, it would now look like:
> 
> [ch] _ma di notte cosi oscura_ nella notte così oscura (starting with ma sounds clunky)
> _nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la molla;_  primavera
> _Vedo il tuo sorriso brillante,_
> _nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore solo isolato (?) alla fine guarisce_
> _quando sogno, nella notte_
> 
> 
> Would you use "vostro/vostre" in a love song?  Is that the formal second person in Italian?  Just wondering... I'm working from my understanding of French, such as it is.


I'd never use it, so let's see what more advanced speakers say about that! I should never have started, I'm terrible with lyrics and poetry!! We definitely need some new contributors here!

EDIT: Didn't see that reinforcements had arrived. We are not alone! Phew!


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## JamesM

Lello4ever said:


> By "you" you mean one or more people?


 
The lyric addresses only one person - the lover.


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## Lello4ever

I don't know... I would use "tu", so "tue" instead of "vostre"... but it's an aria...


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## JamesM

lsp said:


> I'd never use it, so let's see what more advanced speakers say about that! I should never have started, I'm terrible with lyrics and poetry!! We definitely need some new contributors here!


 
I appreciate your help, lsp, and the help of everyone. 

Let me try the latest re-write, then:

nella notte così oscura 
_nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la_ primavera
_Vedo il tuo sorriso brillante,_
_nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore isolato alla fine guarisce_
_quando sogno, nella notte_ 


Is "cuore isolato" something that makes sense in Italian? I'm clueless on this, but it looks strange to my eye. Is there such a word as "retrovo" for "find again"? "trovo ancora" looks a little long. (Never mind... that was probably a silly idea. It has a nice rhythm to it just as it is.)

Once this gets ironed out, my job is to create the music for this lyric, so I have a vested interest in trying to balance the lines and watch the line lengths.   The penultimate line is looking v-e-r-y long at this point, so I may need to paraphrase it somehow.  Hmm....

Thanks again to all of you for this help. I would have no idea where to go on this.


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## Lello4ever

I wouldn't use "isolato" for heart, but for a place. Better "solitario"


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## Paulfromitaly

Lonely heart = cuore solitario
You could say "si consola" instead of "guarisce".


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## lsp

James, the cavalry arrived!

And so...

Nella notte così oscura 
nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la primavera
Vedo il tuo sorriso brillante,
nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore solitario alla fine si consola
quando sogno, nella notte


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## JamesM

lsp said:


> James, the cavalry arrived!
> 
> And so...
> 
> Nella notte così oscura
> nel mio sogno, trovo ancora la primavera
> Vedo il tuo sorriso brillante,
> nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore solitario alla fine si consola
> quando sogno, nella notte


 
Thanks so much, PaulfromItaly, lello4ever, and lsp.  

Could you say:

nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore solitario si consola

I know it's not quite the same, because "finally" is missing, but does it sound OK in Italian?  The line is just so long.  

Another question -- is there a two-syllable word that would be a synonym for "brillante" in "Vedo il tuo sorriso brillante"?   (This is just a "wish list" idea; not important, but could be helpful when setting this to music.)

I can't say enough how much this helps.  This is one of those situations where the value of WRF is so clear to me.  Before I had stumbled onto WRF, I wouldn't have even known where to pose such questions.  Thank you _very_ much.


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## lsp

Personally I like it better without finally.

I looked for synonyms and in the 2-syllable variety there aren't many. Vivo, pronto,  sveglio...


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## giovannino

Bad news on "brillante": I can't think of a shorter word. If anything, I was going to suggest "luminoso" ("sorriso brillante" sounds more like something you'd hear in an ad for toothpaste) but it has an extra syllable.
Good news on "trovo ancora". You can indeed use "ritrovo", which I think sounds better.
And yes, of course you can omit "alla fine".


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## JamesM

giovannino said:


> Bad news on "brillante": I can't think of a shorter word. If anything, I was going to suggest "luminoso" ("sorriso brillante" sounds more like something you'd hear in an ad for toothpaste) but it has an extra syllable.
> Good news on "trovo ancora". You can indeed use "ritrovo", which I think sounds better.
> And yes, of course you can omit "alla fine".


 
Thanks, giovannino. I wondered about "brillante"; it's pretty much the same in English - "for a brilliant smile, use XXXX". 

How about replacing "smile" with "face"? Can that be done? "faccia brillante"? That would solve the toothpaste problem and the syllable count.  I'm trying for "shining face" here.  "faccia luminoso" doesn't cut the syllable count, but it sounds nice to say it.   The vowels are beautiful, as is Italian in general, to my ear. (I appreciate your patience with this. If it's any consolation, I am learning quite a bit about Italian just from this conversation.)


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## giovannino

"Faccia" doesn't really suit the context. "Viso" would be the right word. However "brillante" just doesn't sound right to me.
Since you are clearly allowed to take liberties with the original text, why not go for "il tuo caldo sorriso"(your warm smile)? It sounds a lot better.


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## JamesM

giovannino said:


> "Faccia" doesn't really suit the context. "Viso" would be the right word. However "brillante" just doesn't sound right to me.
> Since you are clearly allowed to take liberties with the original text, why not go for "il tuo caldo sorriso"(your warm smile)? It sounds a lot better.


 
I'm trying to keep the contrast between "oscura" and some reference to light.  I think I'm allowed some liberty with the lyric, but I think it should keep that contrast in it somehow.

Thanks for the note on "viso" vs. "faccia".


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## giovannino

JamesM said:


> I'm trying to keep the contrast between "oscura" and some reference to light. I think I'm allowed some liberty with the lyric, but I think it should keep that contrast in it somehow.


 
Then "il tuo viso luminoso" might do


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## Lello4ever

If you need a shorter sentence, instead of
"vedo il tuo sorriso brillante"
you can try
"vedo il sole nel tuo viso" (I see the sun in your face)
which sounds shorter to me.


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## TylerDurden

ciao a tutti...
Maybe "il tuo sorriso/viso splende" could have the right lenght for metrics and it sounds good I think...


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## JamesM

Thanks so much, both of you!

So now we have:

Nella notte così oscura 
nel mio sogno, ritrovo la primavera
vedo il sole nel tuo viso (or vedo il tuo viso brillante)
nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore solitario si consola
quando sogno, nella notte

One last (?) question. I notice that "ancora" is often shortened to "ancor" or "ancor'". Is this common? Does it sound ok?

I love that it's bracketed, front and back, with "nelle notte." I don't know if it sounds beautiful to Italian speakers, but to me it looks (and sounds) very poetic.


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## TylerDurden

the short form "ancor" is very common in songs and poems.
I agree about "nella notte" as brackets, it sounds very poetic in italian too...


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## giovannino

"Ancor" is fine in a poetic text but I think "ritrovo" is fine.
You can also say "vedo la luce del/nel tuo viso". But please, please don't use "brillante"


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## Lello4ever

In poetry is rather common to find "ancor". Anyway you didn't put it.
The verse sounds preatty good, nice the "nella notte" thing, I only want to underline that the 3rd line sounds too long. I don't know if it's your choice, but if you also find it too long, you could delete that "solitario", and you managed to make your verse, finally


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## JamesM

Lello4ever said:


> In poetry is rather common to find "ancor". Anyway you didn't put it.
> The verse sounds preatty good, nice the "nella notte" thing, I only want to underline that the 3rd line sounds too long. I don't know if it's your choise, but if you also find it too long, you could delete that "solitario", and you managed to make your verse, finally


 
Thanks for the suggestion, Lello4ever. I have the same feeling, believe me. I keep working on tunes that would work with the line and that line seems to stretch on forever. 

So then it would be:

Nella notte così oscura 
nel mio sogno, ritrovo la primavera  (or  nel mio sogno, trovo ancor la primavera)
vedo il sole/la luce nel tuo viso 
nelle tue braccia, il mio cuore si consola
quando sogno, nella notte


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## Lello4ever

Good, good!!!
I think we've created a very nice verse It sounds very good now, see that lines 1-3-5 are shorter, while 2-4 are longer and with a pause in the middle. Good job men! I can't find anything better.


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## lsp

Lello4ever said:


> Good job men!


?................


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## Lello4ever

lsp said:


> ?................


 
What's that? You're the first who contributed!


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## lsp

Lello4ever said:


> What's that? You're the first who contributed!


But I'm not a man


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## JamesM

Once again... thank you all SO much.   If we get this recorded, I'll come back and set a link to the demo so that you can hear the results of your collaboration.


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