# Ραγίζει απόψε η καρδιά



## islandharper

Hi, This is my first thread, so forgive my mistakes. I've been learning a song, 'Ραγίζει απόψε η καρδιά' -- this version from the band, Children of the Revolution. I got to your site because of a thread a year ago about the plectrum -- πενιά -- in a different song. 
When I sing a song in Greek, I want to be able to tell my friends what it means. So, when I translate this stanza: 
"Κανείς εδώ δεν τραγουδά
κανένας δεν χορεύει
ακούνε μόνο την πενιά
κι ο νους τους ταξιδεύει"
I say, "No sings here. No one dances. They only hear the 'Plucking' and their minds wander."  Does that seem to be right to anyone? 
Tell me, please. sophia


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## chauvejean

Hi and welcome,
I'm not a native but to my eyes your translation is pretty good. Although one thing is confusing me a little. Is it just me or do the tenses of the verbs change from present to imperfect, then back to present again??


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## Kevman

Welcome islandharper,

Your translation isn't too bad literally.  Here are a few suggestions which might make it flow better in English:

-*Ακούνε* can mean "they listen" as well as "they hear."

-*Την πενιά* maybe has a broader meaning of "the (virtuoso) playing [_of the instruments_]." A lot of times if a Greek noun takes on a feminine version ending in -ιά it denotes something containing or consisting of that noun, so η πενιά (from η πέννα) conveys sort of the larger artistry of the picking, if that makes any sense.

-*Ταξιδεύει* is more like "travel" than "wander," and there's probably even a better English word that I can't think of right now. If their mind is wandering it sounds like they're not paying attention, but the sense of the lyric is that the music _transports_ them.



chauvejean said:


> Is it just me or do the tenses of the verbs change from present to imperfect, then back to present again??


Γεια σου chauvejean. I think it's just you. They all look present to me.


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## chauvejean

Kevman said:


> Γεια σου chauvejean. I think it's just you. They all look present to me.


 
Yes you're right.
Oh wait I see what I did, I thought I saw a Σ where there wasn't one and got generally muddled up. Rookie mistake. 

Thanks Kevman


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## islandharper

Kevman,
Thanks for those ideas. I learned Greek before English, when I was a little girl. Many times, when I try to translate words and idiomatic phrases for non-Greek speakers, I have a hard time. I feel the meanings of Greek in a non-intellectual way, and so, when you say Ακούνε is 'they listen' as well as 'they hear,' I already know that's true, but I have the idea of 'listening' and 'hearing' being equivalent in English as well as in Greek when they are not.
Ταξιδεύει -- It is travelling, but none of these listeners are singing or dancing, "they hear only or listen only to "την πενιά," (a word I thought means 'poverty,' except the accent is different.) "κι ο νους τους ταξιδεύει," 'and their thoughts travel' sounds so awkward. It wants an idiom in English, but I don't know which one! sophia


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## chauvejean

Maybe (very idiomatically) ;
κι ο νους τους ταξιδεύει 
- and they lose themselves in it
or - and they get carried away (by it)


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## islandharper

Here is the whole song, and my quickie translation today:

Ραγίζει απόψε η καρδιά		       THE HEART BREAKS TONIGHT,
με το μπαγλαμαδάκι			WITH THE BAGLAMAKI,
πολλά κομμάτια έγινε			BECOMING MANY PIECES:	
σπασμένο ποτηράκι			A SMALL BROKEN GLASS


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## jaxlarus

You've done a great job translating this particular song...
Here's another version.


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## Kevman

Γεια σου islandharper,

OK, since you know Greek probably better than I do I'll stick to the English side of the translation.  I'm still not happy with the minds "wandering" or even "drifting."  To me that means that they're _distracted from_ listening to the music.  They're daydreaming instead of paying attention.  I suppose the best English idiom for what I think the song means is indeed "they are transported" (the listeners, that is; you can leave their minds out of it), which has a common metaphorical meaning: they're not physically moved from one place to another, but rather the music makes them feel 'transported' to some higher plane of emotion.  That's my two cents. 


P.S. If I were to get _really_ picky I might look for some sort of English idiom that's maybe somewhat less literal of a translation for "πολλά κομμάτια έγινε," since that's sort of a common figure of speech in Greek, you know?  Also, I'd say you can use the word "taverna" in English instead of "tavern."  It's a loan word--literally _Greek ταβέρνα_, so it's not only a better better 'translation' of the word (in that a ταβέρνα is a teensy bit different from a tavern) but it also reinforces the Greek 'flavor' of the song.  Is that six cents I'm up to now?


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## islandharper

Kevman, 
No, you are totally right. I wasn't really translating the song. Not as if it were a poem, a reflection of someone's soul. I was only doing a word-by-word, this is equal to that. But language doesn't work that way. In order to translate poetry from another language & culture, a translator needs to be imaginative and also to know, really know the discourse community he is translating from and the one he's translating to. I want to learn how to do that.

Anyway, the translation I sent was the first thing I did, before the conversation I've been having with you and the others. Jaxlaras sent me a translation that I think was very good. Here is the first stanza:

Today the heart cracks
With the baglama
It all fell to pieces
Like broken glass

At the end of the stanza, there is a simile comparing the cracking heart and the broken glass. And you are right, this is much more effective than a literal translation. 

But I'm not sure about how the word ταξιδεύει is represented in the chorus in this version: "they only hear the tune, and their mind drifts."  Chauvejean said yesterday: 
"Maybe (very idiomatically) ;
κι ο νους τους ταξιδεύει 
- and they lose themselves in it
or - and they get carried away (by it)." 
And this is also what you just suggested: being distracted, transported. I like the idea of being carried away, back into the past or a happier time. It sounds true.

But, for the record, I doubt that I know Greek better than you do. I teach college English (like in English 101 -- expository writing, research based), and the best writers and speakers -- despite the accents -- are almost always the non-native speakers. Greek might be more visceral to me, something I dream in and feel in my bones, but I never learned the rules. I probably know more about German grammer. Or maybe Italian, which I've just started learning last fall.


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## Kevman

islandharper said:


> Chauvejean said yesterday:
> _[...]_
> and they get carried away (by it)."


Ack, so he did.  Sorry I missed that Chauvejean, it's not bad. 
That "minds wandering" or "minds drifting" just made it sound as if they were thinking about something else and not paying attention to the music.




islandharper said:


> But, for the record, I doubt that I know Greek better than you do.


Well, maybe I've studied it more closely than you, but I'm sure you can speak it (and dream in it!) better than me.


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## islandharper

Well, there's no virtue really to know something because you were born to it. I suppose my accent might be better or something.. but there are so many words and especially idoms that I don't know. Consider this: I was taught Greek by people who came to America during the very early 1900's. Not Victorian, but close behind it. And I learned a very demotic, village Greek -- many of the words I know are known only to Chiotians (we have been on the wrong end of many jokes, like Polish or Blonde or Newfie jokes). Many other words that I grew up thinking were Greek are actually Turkish  ones -- from Smyrna. And so, while I am at comfortable speaking about the home or church or market with very old Greek women or about the coffee house, music, and fishing with very old Greek men, I can be very  confused by modern Greek speakers and their very different idioms, dances (one Greek woman I met last year told me I should come to Greece and teach antique folk dancing because people there don't know how any more!), and life-styles. 


But I want to ask you all about something. Below is the first stanza of the song 'Mana Mou Ellas.' I finally googled up the words. 
Δεν έχω σπίτι πίσω για να ρθω 
ούτε κρεβάτι για να κοιμηθώ 
δεν έχω δρόμο ούτε γειτονιά 
να τραγουδήσω μια Πρωτομαγιά 
My question is, what is this word: ρθω?
I think the first line is: I don't have a home (house) to come back to -- but I don't know exactly why I think that. I have seen that word (ρθω) a lot of times. Is it a contraction or just a slur or part of a word that is used that way so much that everyone knows what it means (except me)?


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## Vagabond

islandharper said:


> But I want to ask you all about something. Below is the first stanza of the song 'Mana Mou Ellas.' I finally googled up the words.
> Δεν έχω σπίτι πίσω για να ρθω
> ούτε κρεβάτι για να κοιμηθώ
> δεν έχω δρόμο ούτε γειτονιά
> να τραγουδήσω μια Πρωτομαγιά
> My question is, what is this word: ρθω?
> I think the first line is: I don't have a home (house) to come back to -- but I don't know exactly why I think that. I have seen that word (ρθω) a lot of times. Is it a contraction or just a slur or part of a word that is used that way so much that everyone knows what it means (except me)?


Hey there! "ρθω" should really be " 'ρθω", and it's a shortened form of "έρθω". Να έρθω = to come. My attempt to translate the above would be something like:
I have no home to go to (or: to come back to)
neither a bed to sleep
I have no street nor neighbourhood
to sing in on a May Day*

*Greeks used to celebrate the first of May by picking flowers, making wreaths and singing May songs with friends and family and neighbours. Still do to a point and in some areas, I suppose; but it used to be a very standard thing.


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## ireney

Moderator's note: Please do not use this thread or these forums in general for chat. It is against the forum's rules. Please read all the WR forums' rules while you are at it


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