# Goal = end ?



## ThomasK

Is the word* 'goal' *is* the same as* the word *'end'* ? In English it is not the case, I think, except in the phrase : *"The end justifies the means" ? *

In Dutch it is *not* the case, I think, as we have the word *doeleinde (goal-end).* Everyone associates goals with destinations, but not really with ends (in the literal sense). The phrase reads: *"Het doel heiligt ('sanctions') the means". *

French:* but =/= fin,* but *"La fin justifie les moyens".* 

German: *Ziel =/= Ende*. And: *"Das Ziel heiligt die Mittel".* 

How about (in) your language?

P.S. : I found a reference in this section to 'end' (opposite of beginning) and to 'means'.


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## Frank06

ThomasK said:


> In Dutch it is *not* the case, I think, as we have the word *doeleinde (goal-end).*


*Doel*
5. -en
vastgesteld eindpunt
(Van Dale)


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## ThomasK

Thanks. I realized that there is an implicit semantic link, like in this case the destination of a trip, which is indeed normally the 'ending point' of it. And somehow a goal or objective is always the point where we hope to arrive in a figurative sense: the whole process of efforts is like a trip. 
Yet, we can seldom replace one by the other in a Dutch sentence ('Het doel van mijn leven' is not 'het einde van mijn leven' ), one reason being that the end of our process or trip... is not always the goal we wished to attain. Or so I think.


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## Juan Nadie

Hello,

In Spanish goal: objetivo, meta and end: fin(al(idad)), and you can use end with the meaning of goal. The end justifies the means = El fin justifica los medios (it is a fixed sentence, but you can replace "fin" by "objetivo" and the meaning doesn't change). In a less fixed sentence any of those words would make almost every sentence to sound as natural as the other.

Regards.


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## ThomasK

Great. That reminds me: we can use *'finaliteit'* in Dutch in some cases, I guess, for 'goal', and yes, that implies an end indeed. I suddenly remembered a conjunction in Dutch: ten-einde plus subclause (which I'd 
paraphrase as 'towards the end/objective', 'with the goal/end/intention'). 

I'd like to ask you for one or two examples, Juan, that show that you can replace one by the other...


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Is the word* 'goal' *is* the same as* the word *'end'* ? In English it is not the case, I think, except in the phrase : *"The end justifies the means" ? *
> 
> In Dutch it is *not* the case, I think, as we have the word *doeleinde (goal-end).* Everyone associates goals with destinations, but not really with ends (in the literal sense). The phrase reads: *"Het doel heiligt ('sanctions') the means". *
> 
> French:* but =/= fin,* but *"La fin justifie les moyens".*
> 
> German: *Ziel =/= Ende*. And: *"Das Ziel heiligt die Mittel".*
> 
> How about (in) your language?
> 
> P.S. : I found a reference in this section to 'end' (opposite of beginning) and to 'means'.


In Greek we translate "goal" as:
1/ «Tέρμα» ('terma, _neuter noun_) deriving from the same classical noun «τέρμα» ('tĕrmă, _neuter noun_). It lit. means _end, in point of time or distance, boundary_. PIE base _*ter-, to cross over_. Cognate with Sanskrit _तरति (tárati)_, German _tor_. In football, the goal is «τέρμα» and the goalkeeper/goalie is «τερματοφύλακας» (termato'filakas, _masculine noun_), lit. _the guardian of boundary_.
2/ «Σκοπός» (sko'pos, _masculine noun_) deriving from the same classical noun «σκοπός» (skŏ'pŏs, _masculine noun_), lit. _one that watches, one that looks about or after things_, metaph. _end, intent, objective_.
"End" is «τέλος» ('telos, _neuter noun_), from the ancient «τέλος» ('tĕlŏs, _neuter noun_), lit. _fulfilment, conclusion_. PIE base _*telā-, to weigh, lift_, probably due to the weighing of the correct amount of gold/goods one had to pay as a financial charge or other levy in order to meet the requirements or expectations of the State (from «τέλος», the ancient Greek unit of value and mass «τάλαντον», _talent_ derives). This _amphibology_ of «τέλος» has survived in Modern Greek: «Τέλος» describes both the _fulfilment, conclusion_ and the _rate, tax_ (e.g. stamp _duty_ is _τέλος_ χαρτοσήμου-_telos_ xarto'simu in Greek).     
PS1: *"The end justifies the means" *is an idiomatic set expression in Greek-->«ο σκοπός αγιάζει τα μέσα» (o sko'pos aʝi'azi ta 'mesa), lit. _the end hallows/sanctifies the means_)
PS2: In movies, the phrase by which the film ends is «Τέλος» (without the definite article)


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## ThomasK

Ah, great contribution again (from the bedrock of European civilisation ;-) )!

The link with 'term' opens perspectives - and from now on I'll only talk about referees and termofilakai _(I felt like writing_ thermofilakai_, but those are different kinds of people, I suppose). _
A _skopos _then is some kind of guard, I imagine, whereas for a second I thought of a link with a perspective (-_spicere_, looking/ watching). 

I had in fact thought that 'telos' was ambiguous, meaning end and goal, but it is not in that way, I now read. Very interesting, thanks !


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## Outsider

In Portuguese the words are like in Spanish, but I would say that a goal can mean many things:

*baliza*: a goal in the game of football
*obje(c)tivo*: an objective, an aim
*fim, finalidade*: end, aim
*propósito, intenção*: intention, aim
*meta*: aim, target; also the finish line in a race
*alvo*: target
*fim*: 'the end' in a story


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## Juan Nadie

ThomasK said:


> I'd like to ask you for one or two examples, Juan, that show that you can replace one by the other...


Keep in mind that there may be more common ways to say it, but just as example...
He reached the goal (running, literary) - Llegó a la meta//Llegó al final (he arrived to the end)
He reached his goals - Logró sus objetivos (metas)//Logró su fin (it would go to "Logró los fines que perseguía" - He reached the goals he was aiming for).
What is the goal of this strike? - ¿Cuál es el objetivo de esta huelga?//¿Cuál es la finalidad de esta huelga?

The Spanish sentences translates almost word by word into English.
I tried to use them all, but if there is a sentence in mind, just say it!


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## ThomasK

@ Outsider: can you substitue _*fim*_ for any of the other words then? I guess not, just asking...

@Juan: no, no, this is fine. I notice that you can really 'switch' them quite often...


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> @ Outsider: can you substitue _*fim*_ for any of the other words then? I guess not, just asking...


You cannot replace _fim_ for _baliza_ (football goal) or _alvo_ (target). You can replace it for the other words in many cases, but it depends on the context. For example, _fim_ cannot replace _meta_ when it means 'finish line'. Even when _meta_ just means 'aim' or 'goal' in general, there are expressions where you can replace it by _fim_ but there are others where you can't.


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## ThomasK

Interesting. That is quite different from Dutch.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> _(I felt like writing_ thermofilakai_, but those are different kinds of people, I suppose)_


haha, yes they sound similar but they are not (interesting neologism this _thermofilakas_, the guardian of heat )  


ThomasK said:


> A _skopos _then is some kind of guard, I imagine, whereas for a second I thought of a link with a perspective (-_spicere_, looking/ watching)


 Σκοπός-Sko'pos is indeed the guard/sentry in military language. The noun derives from the verb «σκοπεύω» (sko'pevo), a classical one: «Σκοπέω» (skŏ'pĕō)-->_to look at_ or _after a thing_. From PIE base _*spek-, to observe_ (cognate with Eng. _scope_,  Lat. _specere (to look at_). In Modern Greek with «σκοπεύω» (sko'pevo) we also describe the _aiming with a gun_.


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*.
Football goal is "maali", but this is rarely used metaphorically to signify "a goal of sth". We usually use the word _päämäärä_ (end limit?*) or _tavoite_ (< "tavoittaa" 'reach') .

_End_ is either _loppu_ or _pää_ (~ of a rope, for example).

However, the saying is translated differently. In Finnish, _tarkoitus pyhittää keinot_. The *purpose *sanctifies the means.

* In modern Finnish, _pää_ = head and _määrä_ = amount. Head amount? The etymological source is Russian *мера*, "measure; degree, extent, limit". "End limit" makes sense, but I may be wrong...


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## ThomasK

I suppose end and head are related, as two parts of a rope. It makes sense indeed, I think ! Thanks !


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## mataripis

Tagalog: 1.)Goal=Layunin  2.)Mission=Adhikain   i cannot see in these two words if there is link between goal and end  but we have this phrase (gawaing dapat tapusin) "things needed to complete" _Tapusin " here is also synonymous to "bring to an end" but with the meaning "to accomplish"/to complete._


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## ThomasK

You seem to be suggesting that there is a link with end, somehow: completing. But can you analyse those words? Is the word for 'end' in 'to complete' ?


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## sakvaka

sakvaka said:


> *Finnish*.
> Football goal is "maali", but this is rarely used metaphorically to signify "a goal of sth". We usually use the word _päämäärä_ (end limit?*) or _tavoite_ (< "tavoittaa" 'reach') .



Oh, and in *Swedish* _tavoite_ and _maali_ are both "mål", so there seems to be one language without the distinction.

_uppfylla målet_ ("fill up the goal/objective") 
= _saavuttaa tavoite_ ("reach what you have been trying to reach") or _päästä maaliin_ ("get [in]to the goal/cross the finish line") 
= _meet targets_

_skjuta över målet_ ("shoot over the goal")
= _ylittää tavoitteet_ ("surpass the thing you've been trying to reach")
= _exceed targets_


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## ThomasK

Thanks for the information. But are we not referring to one meaning here? I know: not quite, but I mean... The soccer goal is some kind of target (one is playing towards), I think. It would still be stronger if we had the same root for both 'end' and 'goal'. or am I somehow mistaken?


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## sakvaka

Oops, sorry! That was indeed one meaning and not two! _

Ända_ (end) doesn't appear to be related to _mål_, so I think Swedish speaking people are better at looking for possible connections.


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## ThomasK

Well, don't worry. It is interesting to learn that soccer goals can be goals and v.v. ! 

You know, any ideas regarding the background of the questions are interesting. I mean: a link between finality and purpose or goal seems almost self-evident, in some respects at least, but it is hard to find direct traces in languages, so it seems. So feel welcome to let your mind wander... For example: I think the syntactic/lexical environment of both words might refer to some common meaning - like: both need a preposition indicating direction, I think.


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## mcibor

In Polish (as in German) goal is "cel", but also meaning target, like a shooting target.

Interestingly "means" in Polish is środek/środki (a mean value, middle)

end (koniec) indicates finish than any other English meaning


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## A.O.T.

ThomasK said:


> Is the word* 'goal' *is* the same as* the word *'end'* ? In English it is not the case, I think, except in the phrase : *"The end justifies the means" ? *



*In Ukrainian* we say: Мета випрадовує зусилля/заходи. (Meta vypravdovuye zusyllya/zahody)

It's interesting to find out from the above posts (##4 and 8) that a word *meta* has the same meaning in Spanish and Portuguese languages.


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## ThomasK

But could you explain the above sentences? Does _meta_ have other meanings as well?


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## A.O.T.

ThomasK said:


> But could you explain the above sentences? Does meta have other words as well?



Meta in the sentence above means a final goal/aim.

We also can use a russified equivalent of meta. It's a word "ціль" (tsil') but it more has to do with a meaning "target".


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## ThomasK

ціль: interesting. The pronunciation and meaning remind me of German. Could it have been taken from German? In Dutch too it is a target as well, as in Finnish: a soccer goal for example ?


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## A.O.T.

ThomasK said:


> ціль: interesting. The pronunciation and meaning remind me of German. Could it have been taken from German? In Dutch too it is a target as well, as in Finnish: a soccer goal for example ?



Yeah, I think you're right "*ціль*" has a German origin - "*Ziel*". Thank you for pointing this out for me! The pronunciation & meaning are the same.


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## ThomasK

you're welcome. Just wondering: how about this idea of end? Do you see it implicitly (explicitly) included in your words for purpose, goal, target?


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## A.O.T.

A word *meta *(in Ukrainian) implicitly means that it's a final/ultimate/eventual *goal/purpose/aim*. So there should be done something by someone to get closer to it or to make it come true.


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## ThomasK

Quite right, you are pointing out the implicit semantic link between both meanings. My question referred to how that could be proved referring to syntax, certain prepositions, etc.


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## A.O.T.

ThomasK said:


> Quite right, you are pointing out the implicit semantic link between both meanings. My question referred to how that could be proved referring to syntax, certain prepositions, etc.



ОК. I'll try to explain. 

Normally if you want to say in Ukrainian a phrase: "to hit a *target*" then you have to use a word *ціль *and this phrase will be: "влучити/поцілити у *ціль*. (Vluchyty/potsilyty u tsil'.) 

If you want to say a phrase: "to reach a *goal/purpose*" then you have to use a word *мета*: "досягнути *мети*".

The main thing that points out whether you have to use *мета *or *ціль *is wholly depends on the meaning of a verb which is used to express some action and plays a role of a predicate in a sentence.

It's important to notice that in Ukrainian we haven't a plural for *мета. *That's why the plural for *ціль *is used in this case - *цілі (tsili) *(the stress is on the first syllable) even if the meaning in singular should be expressed by means of an appropriate verb + *мета*.

Perhaps my explanation may seem a bit (or more than that) confusing for you but I did my best to make it clear for you.


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot for the information. Interesting distinction you make: indeed, also in English you will be using different verbs, and that shows that the meanings seem different. That is interesting because indeed in Dutch we will say : _het doel/ het einde *bereiken *_(to reach the goal/ the end) and _het doel *treffen*_, when referring to hitting the target. So the goal and end meaning seem more related than the target meaning, seems to be the conclusion so far. 

I am not so sure though whether the verb determines the choice, I think the meaning (target or goal) does and then leads to one of both verbs. Or am I seeing things wrongly? 

Interesting point: *мета *has no plural. That seems to imply that it is an abstract (uncountable) noun, but I cannot think of a parallel in English. Could you imagine that to be true? And/or: could you find a 'rationale' for that?


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## Orlin

A.O.T. said:


> Yeah, I think you're right "*ціль*" has a German origin - "*Ziel*". Thank you for pointing this out for me! The pronunciation & meaning are the same.


The same applies to Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian _cilj_.


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## A.O.T.

ThomasK said:


> Thanks a lot for the information. Interesting distinction you make: indeed, also in English you will be using different verbs, and that shows that the meanings seem different. That is interesting because indeed in Dutch we will say : _het doel/ het einde *bereiken *_(to reach the goal/ the end) and _het doel *treffen*_, when referring to hitting the target. So the goal and end meaning seem more related than the target meaning, seems to be the conclusion so far.
> 
> I am not so sure though whether the verb determines the choice, I think the meaning (target or goal) does and then leads to one of both verbs. Or am I seeing things wrongly?



I had to notice once again that in Ukrainian the verbs indeed play a crucial role in this case when chosing a correct/appropriate noun: *мета *which implicitly means a *final *goal or a word *ціль *(target). From your example above, I think that those Dutch verbs are also important as for expressing different meanings and actions. And I totally agree with you that the words a goal and an end are more kindred than a target.



ThomasK said:


> Interesting point: *мета *has no plural. That seems to imply that it is an abstract (uncountable) noun, but I cannot think of a parallel in English. Could you imagine that to be true? And/or: could you find a 'rationale' for that?



I thought about it but I couldn't find any equivalent of such a word in English. As you know there are some uncountable nouns in English but I've never come across the case when an English uncountable noun could use another countable noun to form a plural like we have it in Ukrainian with those words: *мета *(singular) *-> цілі *(plural).


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## ThomasK

Thanks, AOT. The main thing that interests me is: why doesn't it have a plural? Would you have any idea? 

As for the choice being governed by verbs, I am afraid I still don't quite understand. I still wonder whether the verb can define the object...


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> You seem to be suggesting that there is a link with end, somehow: completing. But can you analyse those words? Is the word for 'end' in 'to complete' ?


 Not exactly. the word"Tapusin" has two meanings based on how it is used in the sentence. 1.) To complete=  The writings are complete already.(Natapos/nagawa na ang sulatin) the possible root word for this (undocumented) is "Puspos"= filled with/completely full.   2.) the second meaning is " end"   *  Natapos ang usapin sa pulong nang magkasundo sila sa nabuong mga mungkahi/panukala.= The meeting/session is adjourned/ended when they all agreed with all of their good suggestions.  * Sabi ng mga MAYANO , katapusan na ng Daigdig sa taong 2012! (The mayans said,year 2012 is the end of the world!) I am not sure why the case of this word is like this, There is Greek " TELOS" meaning end, that might influence Tagalog and resulted  the formation of word "TAPOS" in Tagalog.


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## ThomasK

That is interesting: _complete _refers to _plenum_/.... too, I believe. And when something is full, that is the end of course. Yes, I forget the association goal/ end/ fullness. Thanks !


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## ThomasK

Could anyone comment on the origin of the word 'meta', which turns up in all kinds of language. I know 'metalanguage' but I do not see a link with 'goal' there...


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## Saluton

Russian:
goal = цель
football goal = ворота (= 'gate')
end = конец
the end justifies the means = цель оправдывает средства



ThomasK said:


> Could anyone comment on the origin of the word 'meta', which turns up in all kinds of language. I know 'metalanguage' but I do not see a link with 'goal' there...


_Meta_ in metalanguage is a Greek prefix μετά = "after", "beyond", "with", "adjacent", "self". Surely different from what you're looking for.


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## ThomasK

INdeed, I suppose that 'цель' does not have to do with Greek 'meta', but then: what is the origin ? Do you know ?


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## AutumnOwl

The Swedish word _*mål*_ have many meanings, one of them is goal, but it can also mean meal (ett mål mat = a meal of food), ability to talk (ha mål i mun), dialect (dalmål = the dialect in Dalarna), a contract (in words such as gemål = husband or wife; giftermål = marriage) and so on. For more info: http://runeberg.org/svetym/0585.html

Swedish have two words for end,_* slut*_ and _*ända*_. Both words can be combined with mål, _slutmål_ = final destination (slutmålet för resan var... = the end destination for the trip was...) and ändamål = endgoal, final destination, end (17th century), from the German endziel, (ändamålet helgar medlen = the end justifies the means). For more info: http://runeberg.org/svetym/1302.html

As for why Swedish uses _mål_ for goal I don't know the answer, perhaps the endgoal for playing a match is for the ball to end up in the goal


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