# Urdu: Apartment



## ihsaan

Hi,
I am looking for the word "apartment" in Urdu. The words I have found in Urdu do not really have this meaning. I have seen/heard suggestions like: "hujra" (which I am told is more like a little house?) or ghar. Others have just told me that many simply say apartment? (If this is the case, what gender would this word be?)


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## Alfaaz

> simply say apartment? (If this is the case, what gender would this word be?)


Apartment hota hai (masculine)


> I am looking for the word "apartment" in Urdu.


apartment: اطاق : otaaq 
apartment building: اُطاقی عِمارت otaaqi i'maarat

Basically it means room/kamrah, but it could probably be used for "apartment" as it is from Arabic and generally not used for a "room"....for which kamrah is mostly used in Urdu. Hujrah is also from Arabic and means a room or lounge or family room/drawing room or........even a chamber in which one would sit for worship/i'baadat (this seems to be the primary usage, but not necessarily though).


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Apartment hota hai (masculine)
> 
> apartment: اطاق : otaaq
> apartment building: اُطاقی عِمارت otaaqi i'maarat
> 
> Basically it means room/kamrah, but it could probably be used for "apartment" as it is from Arabic and generally not used for a "room"....for which kamrah is mostly used in Urdu. Hujrah is also from Arabic and means a room or lounge or family room/drawing room or........even a chamber in which one would sit for worship/i'baadat (this seems to be the primary usage, but not necessarily though).


Well, let me extract what might be used in the present times.

_utaaq _is a room itself, a place where four walls and a ceiling is present, along with a floor. But this is a Persian word, used only in some terms or compound words. Let well, in contemporary Persian it is spelled as اتاق!
Hujrah is culturally associated with Paxtuun community (doesn't mean an apartment) and for the rest, the word _flaiT_ is the most widespread and most 'ancient' word for an appartment in Urdu!


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## Alfaaz

> Well, let me extract what might be used in the present times.





> the word _flaiT_ is the most widespread and most 'ancient' word for an appartment in Urdu!


Could other words be used in Urdu, besides the English borrowings? Maybe since the words are not common in "present times", they could be used with "new" meanings...?


> Hujrah is culturally associated with Paxtuun community


Thanks for the information! I didn't know this. Have heard Hujrah being used by Urdu speakers and even in other languages (like Punjabi), without any (direct or indirect) reference to the Pakhtuun community; (often used in a sarcastic sense, example below): 

_Father: Where is Alif?
Waalid: Alif kahaaN hai?/ "Alif kithhe aa/ae/wa?" or "kitheiye o?"

Mother: He is upstairs in his "royal chamber" "dead asleep"! Why don't you scold him? You have completely spoiled him!
Waalidah: Woh uper apne Hujre mein soyaa mara paRaa hai! Aap use DaanTte kyoN naheeN? Aap ne to usko bigaR ke rakh diya hai! 
Oh apnRe Hujre wich sutaa maryaa payaa wa! tusi ono daaTde kyoN nai? wigaaR ke rakh ditta ae! 
_


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Could other words be used in Urdu, besides the English borrowings? Maybe since the words are not common in "present times", they could be used with "new" meanings...?
> *
> Not for an appartment.*
> Thanks for the information! I didn't know this. Have heard Hujrah being used by Urdu speakers and even in other languages (like Punjabi), without any (direct or indirect) reference to the Pakhtuun community; (often used in a sarcastic sense, example below): *well, I told you about a cultural association but it does not necessarily extend to other languages. However, it doesn't mean an apartment!!! It is a room.*
> 
> _Father: Where is Alif?
> Waalid: Alif kahaaN hai?/ "Alif kithhe aa/ae/wa?" or "kitheiye o?"
> 
> Mother: He is upstairs in his "royal chamber" "dead asleep"! Why don't you scold him? You have completely spoiled him!
> Waalidah: Woh uper apne Hujre mein soyaa mara paRaa hai! Aap use DaanTte kyoN naheeN? Aap ne to usko bigaR ke rakh diya hai!
> Oh apnRe Hujre wich sutaa maryaa payaa wa! tusi ono daaTde kyoN nai? wigaaR ke rakh ditta ae!
> _


an apartment (Am.) is a فلیٹ to us.


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## Abu Talha

Hello. Besides English borrowings, how about koThaa/koThii? I have to say, however, that it will sound strange. For some reason, in Urdu we never really got round to using old words with new meanings unlike some other modern languages.


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for replying!


> *However, it doesn't mean an apartment!!! It is a room.*


I was certainly not suggesting that it means apartment: 


> Hujrah is also from Arabic and means a room or lounge or family room/drawing room or........even a chamber in which one would sit for worship/i'baadat (this seems to be the primary usage, but not necessarily though).


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## marrish

koThaa/koThii doesn't mean a flat or an apartment.


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## Qureshpor

A "Hujrah" is a good old fashioned Urdu word of Arabic origins. It is connected to "piirs" and "faqiirs" with compound words like "Hujrah-nashiin". One imagines a "Hujrah" to be a claustrophobic place hardly befitting modern flat/apartment dwellers!

My faithful dictionary gives its meaning as "chamber/closet/cell/small room in a mosque".


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## Alfaaz

> Hello. Besides English borrowings, how about koThaa/koThii? I have to say, however, that it will sound strange. For some reason, in Urdu we never really got round to using old words with new meanings unlike some other modern languages.



koThaa is used either for a rooftop of a house or the other place which you seem to be referring to when saying "it will sound strange". KoThii seems to be commonly used for a large house.
Agree, that is why I was asking (one of the online UE Dictionary give utaaq as an alternative)


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## Alfaaz

> A "Hujrah" is a good old fashioned Urdu word of Arabic origins. It is connected to piirs" and "faqiirs" with compound words like "Hujrah-nashiin". One imagines a "Hujrah" to be a claustrophobic place hardly befitting modern flat/apartment dwellers!
> 
> My faithful dictionary gives its meaning as "chamber/closet/cell/small room in a mosque".


Thanks! Yes this is what I thought, but this gives more meanings.


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## UrduMedium

daee said:


> Hello. Besides English borrowings, how about koThaa/koThii? I have to say, however, that it will sound strange. For some reason, in Urdu we never really got round to using old words with new meanings unlike some other modern languages.



koThii is still used for a larger detached house, but not apartment. koThaa I am less sure about. Interestingly, it is mostly used in "tawa'if ka koThaa" (female singer+dancer's floor)  I suspect it is also used to refer to flat open roof of a house where one can engage in patang baazi or similar activities. 

As marrish saahib suggested, for me also an apartment has always been a flaiT (in Urdu). Some people also pronounce it as filaiT.


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## BP.

Alfaaz said:


> Could other words be used in Urdu, besides the English borrowings?_..._


At your service with _xulyawii xaanah_ - خلیوی خانہ.

At this rate we can win some awkward neologisms tophy.


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## Abu Talha

Alfaaz said:


> koThaa is used either for a rooftop of a house or the other place which you seem to be referring to when saying "it will sound strange". KoThii seems to be commonly used for a large house.
> Agree, that is why I was asking (one of the online UE Dictionary give utaaq as an alternative)


By strange I had just meant that listeners, when hearing the word koThaa will automatically think of a rooftop and won't connect it with a modern flat or apartment. I had forgotten some of its other meanings..

But my point was that since we are now in the business of coining words we can either use an old word that was used for something similar and use it for the new meaning until speakers connect it to that meaning. 

Another way, I guess, is to use an adjective to describe these new houses. That might have been how "flat" came to mean its current meaning.


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## Alfaaz

> At your service with _xulyawii xaanah_ - خلیوی خانہ.


Thanks for replying! What is the root word (khulyaawi)? I can't find it any of the online dictionaries...
What would your opinion be about using utaaq as here? 
or goshah, that sounds cozy, warm, and attractive like in the commercials! "_Sirf_ 2 Lakh de kar abhi apne aur apne khaandaan ke liye Haseen goshah Haasil kijiye"


> At this rate we can win some awkward neologisms tophy.


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## Alfaaz

> But my point was that since we are now in the business of coining words we can either use an old word that was used for something similar and use it for the new meaning until speakers connect it to that meaning.


Agree! That is exactly what I was trying to say...we are frequently trying to coin words for English words on this forum and often suggest using words that might not be in use much or could be given "new" meaning, etc. So why just use/be limited to filaiT/flat for "apartment"....


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## BP.

^(posts 10 and 14) Rather than the rooftop, for me _kooThaa _conjures up the image of a single room built on the roof, i.e. a _baalaa khaanah_, to serve as an attic or a place you could sit and peer down at the street.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> ^(posts 10 and 14) Rather than the rooftop, for me _kooThaa _conjures up the image of a single room built on the roof, i.e. a _baalaa khaanah_, to serve as an attic or a place you could sit and peer down at the street.



We call "baalaa khaanaa", a dish prepared by Mr.Iqbal!


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## BP.

baalaa xaanah if you wish.


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## ihsaan

Wow, lots of suggestions! Thank you for the input. To keep it simple, I think I will just go for _flaiT. _Is this considered to be a masculine word?


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## Abu Talha

ihsaan said:


> Wow, lots of suggestions! Thank you for the input. To keep it simple, I think I will just go for _flaiT. _Is this considered to be a masculine word?


It sounds masculine to me. Let's see what others think. 

By the way, strictly speaking, I think it would have to be _filait_ or _falait_ in Urdu. (Another possibility could be _iflait_ . I've never heard it but افلیٹ has a couple of Google hits.) But as with most of these recent borrowings, one would pronounce it as close to the English pronunciation as one can: "flæt", i.e., with the consonant cluster, and without the diphthong.


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## marrish

daee said:


> It sounds masculine to me. Let's see what others think.
> 
> By the way, strictly speaking, I think it would have to be _filait_ or _falait_ in Urdu. (Another possibility could be _iflait_ . I've never heard it but افلیٹ has a couple of Google hits.) But as with most of these recent borrowings, one would pronounce it as close to the English pronunciation as one can: "flæt", i.e., with the consonant cluster, and without the diphthong.


Yes, it is a masculine noun indeed. 
I don't think it is needed to insert some vowels where they are normally not supposed to be. This word has been a part of the Urdu vocabulary for a century of so and it is mostly pronounced without effort as it is. It could have been _fileT_ or _filaiT _but not _falaiT - _this is more like the Punjabi way of saying things. _iflaiT_ is also unknown to me, I'm wondering how the ''i'' came in there?


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## UrduMedium

marrish said:


> Yes, it is a masculine noun indeed.
> I don't think it is needed to insert some vowels where they are normally not supposed to be. This word has been a part of the Urdu vocabulary for a century of so and it is mostly pronounced without effort as it is. It could have been _fileT_ or _filaiT _but not _falaiT - _this is more like the Punjabi way of saying things. _iflaiT_ is also unknown to me, I'm wondering how the ''i'' came in there?



I'm reasonably sure _iflaiT_ is an extension of the rule that gives _iskuul _for school,  fairly common in Karachi. Having said that, I have never heard _iflaiT_


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Yes, it is a masculine noun indeed.
> I don't think it is needed to insert some vowels where they are normally not supposed to be. This word has been a part of the Urdu vocabulary for a century of so and it is mostly pronounced without effort as it is. It could have been _fileT_ or _filaiT _but not _falaiT - _this is more like the Punjabi way of saying things. _iflaiT_ is also unknown to me, I'm wondering how the ''i'' came in there?



Or perhaps Geordie! Have you not heard a Geordie say, "filam"?

The same way it got into "iskuul"!


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## marrish

mbasit said:


> I'm reasonably sure _iflaiT_ is an extension of the rule that gives _iskuul _for school,  fairly common in Karachi. Having said that, I have never heard _iflaiT_


Well, my strong belief says that it is not so. If you have never heard _iflaiT_, and me neither, it would mean that this was a mere speculation.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Or perhaps Geordie! Have you not heard a Geordie say, "filam"?
> 
> The same way it got into "iskuul"!


Actually I don't know anything about English dialects so I really can't say. Thanks for this!

About ''iskuul'', I don't think it is the case, there is no need for imputing ''í''' there.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Well, my strong belief says that it is not so. If you have never heard _iflaiT_, and me neither, it would mean that this was a mere speculation.



Apologies. I read it as, "iflaiT is also known to me..".


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## marrish

You know very well how you should have read it! My apologies.


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## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> I don't think it is needed to insert some vowels where they are normally not supposed to be. This word has been a part of the Urdu vocabulary for a century of so and it is mostly pronounced without effort as it is. It could have been _fileT_ or _filaiT _but not _falaiT - _this is more like the Punjabi way of saying things. _iflaiT_ is also unknown to me, I'm wondering how the ''i'' came in there?


I think the i in _iflaiT _is to avoid the initial consonant cluster, just like _iskuul _(school) and _istaa'il _(style). The former is found in print and the latter in speech.

I agree that it's not needed to insert extra vowels and if one is able to pronounce "flat" correctly in English, he will use the same pronunciation in Urdu too. However, if one considers Urdu's traditional phonology of only having a fixed set of vowels and not allowing initial consonant clusters, then I think _flat_ would have to be modified before being accepted as an Urdu word. Another way to look at it is if "flat" came to be used in Urdu poetry, the initial fl might pose some problems when parsing for metre.

In any case, all this is academic. In practice, "flat" will be pronounced in Urdu however the speaker would pronounce it in English.


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## Abu Talha

I guess I was late to the party! I didn't see all the other posts when I replied.


marrish said:


> Well, my strong belief says that it is not so. If you have never heard _iflaiT_, and me neither, it would mean that this was a mere speculation.


Yes, this was mere speculation on my part on how to make the word fit into traditional Urdu phonology.


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## marrish

daee SaaHib, you yourself mentioned a couple of examples beginning with ''i''. Please note that the consonant which follows it is invariably ''s'''. It means that this very way of pronunciation trick is used with words where ''s'' is the part of a ''cluster'', otherwise it is of no application. The other ways of course are there to use.


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## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> daee SaaHib, you yourself mentioned a couple of examples beginning with ''i''. Please note that the consonant which follows it is invariably ''s'''. It means that this very way of pronunciation trick is used with words where ''s'' is the part of a ''cluster'', otherwise it is of no application. The other ways of course are there to use.


That's a good point, Marrish Saahib, You're probably right but I have to say, I don't see why it should be restricted to consonant clusters beginning with _s_. I think other initial consonant clusters would also be equally hard on the Urdu tongue, but I can't think of any Urdu words that utilize this traditionally. There is the Arabic hamzat al-wasl in words like _izTiraab _but that was in Arabic before being borrowed by Urdu.


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## UrduMedium

marrish said:


> Well, my strong belief says that it is not so. If you have never heard _iflaiT_, and me neither, it would mean that this was a mere speculation.


 Yes, marrish saahib, I was guessing the rule at work, not confirming the usage.


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## marrish

Thank you all who confirmed my belief but it is a nuisance to copy my grammar fault in English repeatedly!
There is no rule as such, the usage proves that it occurs only in ''s'' situations.

daee SaaHib, it is not so hard for the Urdu tongue, fleT and the likes!


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## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> daee SaaHib, it is not so hard for the Urdu tongue, fleT and the likes!


Well, perhaps not for people who have studied English. But for Urdu speakers who have only known the word from its being used in Urdu, I would venture to say it would be a little difficult. I guess what I'm trying to say is that "technically”, a borrowed word should be adapted to fit into the language's existing phonology. In Urdu this exists in practice but speakers try to remove this ”defect” from their speech as soon as possible to avoid being perceived as uneducated. 

In the end, perhaps this is much ado about nothing, so I'll stop here!


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## marrish

daee said:


> Well, perhaps not for people who have studied English. But for Urdu speakers who have only known the word from its being used in Urdu, I would venture to say it would be a little difficult. I guess what I'm trying to say is that "technically”, a borrowed word should be adapted to fit into the language's existing phonology. In Urdu this exists in practice but speakers try to remove this ”defect” from their speech as soon as possible to avoid being perceived as uneducated.
> 
> In the end, perhaps this is much ado about nothing, so I'll stop here!


Thank you for your comments, I appreciate the depth of scientific research you reached. It may be like this, your explanation convinces me, but I will have a look into the pronunciations when people who don't know English say this word. Of course don't expect me to give a feedback as of tomorrow, but I will surely answer within a couple of weeks. 
I myself feel disqualified by having a slight touch of English on my brain, although not correct.


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## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> Thank you for your comments, I appreciate the depth of scientific research you reached. It may be like this, your explanation convinces me, but I will have a look into the pronunciations when people who don't know English say this word. Of course don't expect me to give a feedback as of tomorrow, but I will surely answer within a couple of weeks.
> I myself feel disqualified by having a slight touch of English on my brain, although not correct.


Thank you and everyone else for the interesting discussion. But to come clean, I have not done much scientific research, unfortunately. This is only what I feel speaking, and living around people speaking Urdu. Another thing worth revising is my use of the word "should" above.





daee said:


> ... "technically”, a borrowed word should be adapted to fit into the language's existing phonology.


That is perhaps too strict, as otherwise we would not even have Urdu to begin with.


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## marrish

daee said:


> Thank you and everyone else for the interesting discussion. But to come clean, I have not done much scientific research, unfortunately. This is only what I feel speaking, and living around people speaking Urdu. Another thing worth revising is my use of the word "should" above.That is perhaps too strict, as otherwise we would not even have Urdu to begin with.


Your propositions don't miss anything scientifical, and it is the domain of science to research and propose and doubt and confirm and...
Well, I don't live around people speaking Urdu, so please do take my opinions with a pinch of salt.
You are *too strict* regarding should!

It has been a pleasure.


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## UrduMedium

marrish said:


> Thank you for your comments, I appreciate the depth of scientific research you reached. It may be like this, your explanation convinces me, but I will have a look into the pronunciations when people who don't know English say this word. Of course don't expect me to give a feedback as of tomorrow, but I will surely answer within a couple of weeks.
> I myself feel disqualified by having a slight touch of English on my brain, although not correct.



IMO for someone who has only knows Urdu and no other language, most likely this word will come out as filaiT or falaiT.


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## marrish

mbasit said:


> IMO for someone who has only knows Urdu and no other language, most likely this word will come out as filaiT or falaiT.


Well, not _iflaiT_! I believe such person wouldn't bother to articulate a diphthong. Give me time, I'll come back.


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## BP.

mbasit said:


> IMO for someone who has only knows Urdu and no other language, most likely this word will come out as filaiT or falaiT.


Any of the two, depending on the person's background. I think I'd have gone for the former.


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## Faylasoof

ihsaan said:


> Wow, lots of suggestions! Thank you for the input. To keep it simple, I think I will just go for _flaiT. _Is this considered to be a masculine word?


 _*flaiT*_ has indeed become very common in Urdu for flat / apartment! Yes, it is masculine - for us at least!


marrish said:


> ….
> _utaaq _is a room itself, a place where four walls and a ceiling is present, along with a floor. But this is a Persian word, used only in some terms or compound words. Let well, in contemporary Persian it is spelled as اتاق!
> Hujrah is culturally associated with Paxtuun community (doesn't mean an apartment) and for the rest, the word *flaiT *is the most widespread and most 'ancient' word for an appartment in Urdu!


 


QURESHPOR said:


> A "Hujrah" is a good old fashioned Urdu word of Arabic origins. It is connected to "piirs" and "faqiirs" with compound words like "Hujrah-nashiin". One imagines a "Hujrah" to be a claustrophobic place hardly befitting modern flat/apartment dwellers!
> 
> My faithful dictionary gives its meaning as "chamber/closet/cell/small room in a mosque".


 Yes, we do use both _uTaaq_ and _Hujrah_ though not for an apartment! _Hujrah_ (plural, _Hujre_ ) we use more than _uTaaq_ and its is indeed used by us only for a chamber / cell / in any religious centre which tends to be quite spartan, be it in a _masjid_ or a _madrasah_ or a _daar-ul-3luum_ or a _Hawzah_.

Platts has this for _koThaa_:
S کوٿها कोठा _koṭhā_ [Prk. कोट्ठओ; S. कोष्ठ+कः], s.m. A granary, barn; storehouse;—a house built of burnt brick or stone; a mercantile house or firm (=_koṭhī_, which is the com. form); a large (inner) room or apartment; the flat top or roof of a house; an* upper storey*; a storey, floor, flat;

… and it is really as *upper storey / upstairs* that we use _koThaa_. We also discussed it here (post#6).


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## ihsaan

@Faylasoof: Ok, thank you!


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## Sheikh_14

I can understand what Janaab Alfaaz is getting at. At its core a Hujra is a private chamber, an inner sanctuary, the size of which can be as large as you need it to be just as an inner sanctum can be unassuming and testing or grandiose as per one's tastes. Technically an artist's creative space can also be a Hujra. It needs to be noted that historically apartments were mere rooms or portions within larger palatial homes, so I don't quite understand the bickering. However, Hujra has two cultural denotations a) it's a private sanctuary I.e your personal space or b) it's a private sanctuary for your nearest and dearest to eat, live and be merry I.e. where you entertain people. Thence, personally I could see the point of using Hujra for an apartment if it was a hub for private gatherings, similar to a Deraa. Otherwise I would only use Hujra for one's private inner sanctum/chamber or a seating area that can at times be in an outbuilding.

Similarly Utaaq firstly is not an Arabic word it is derived from Ottoman Turkish and I believe the modern-day Turkish adaptation of the term is the contracted Oda. Secondly, its usage in Urdu is limited to specific specialised rooms i.e. an examination or waiting room. Generally speaking once again it would be used for a living/reception room. Meaning of utaq in English | Rekhta Dictionary.

I would personally vouch for the French Apartement which both Turkish and Persian have adopted and would be transliterated as Apaartimaan اپارتمان. It's more suited to the Urdu language due to the way that it is pronounced and can easily be pluralised to apaartimaanaat or be connected to something i.e. apaartimaanii i'maarat than the likes of Apartment which has no real Urdu plural besides potentially AparTmenToN but it doesn't have the best ring to it and seems incongrous which is why with many English terms people prefer English pluralisations and it doesn't lend itself as adaptable. Similarly you can't say ApartmenTii (or at least it sounds odd). By way of Persian، Urdu has a knack of adopting French terms like Restoraan and Parlimaan which are far better suited to the Urdu language than their English alternatives purely out of an acoustical and rhythmic perspective. Eventhough they are better suited it doesn't mean Urdu-phones don't use restaurant and parliament more than the French alternatives. Apaartimaan doesn't sound foreign, ApaarTmenT immediately does.

Lastly, how about ghurfa غرفہ?  Whilst in Arabic Ghurfa is equivalent to a chamber I.e. kamaraa/kamara in Urdu its definition is more specialised P غرفه g̠urfa (for A. غرفة, v.n. fr. غرف 'to take out'; 'to cut,' &c.), s.m. An upper chamber or apartment; a hall, a parlour. Therefore, given that an apartment is traditionally on upper floors and is by definition a private section within a larger building, I see no reason why it cannot be used for a suite/apartment. A hotel sign could say we have 80 rooms and 10 suites I.e 80 kamre o/aur 10 ghuraf/ghurfe/ghurufaat. Suites and apartments are used interchangeably in the hotel industry. Note that the secondary definition of gurfa as a window also derives from these rooms/sections being on upper floors. The vibes that it exudes is of "saamne waalii khiRkii meN ek chaand saa TukRaa rehtaa hai" perhaps of a New York style apartment. There's also a saying in "gurfa kii baat cheet" which pertains to discussions had by lovers or affiliates within private confines.


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## Babbagha2

If you don't like the widespread Eng. borrowing فلیٹ used nowadays by most Urdu speakers, then instead of using words that already carry another meaning and other connotations in the language (such as اُتاق or حُجرہ), I  would rather suggest borrowing from the MSA word for 'flat, apartment': شَقَّة (shaqqah), which seems to me a better option: short and simple word, easy to remember, and contrary to اپارتمان  it is no tongue-twister to Urdu speakers.


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