# Alternatives to прощение



## Dryan

Sorry in advance if this is outside the scope of this forum.
I am trying to translate a _singable_ excerpt from Aida from Italian to Russian so I had to drop some words for the sake of syllable count. I am including the Italian just for syllable reference and the English translation. Apologies for my mediocre Russian poetry.

I feel like I am drastically overusing *прощение *and related terms. Would anyone be able to suggest alternatives here; preferably ones that don't add any syllables?

Working copy in progress:

Уже собираются жрецы,
Арбитры твоей судьбы;
Несмотря на обвинение,
Простить тебя возможно;
Признай себя невиновным,
заступлюсь за тебя пред царем,
И предвестницей прощения,
Жизни, тебе буду.

The English translation:

Already the priests, the arbiters
of your fate, are assembling;
but from this horrible charge
you may yet exculpate yourself;
justify yourself, and I will
plead for you before the throne,
and be a messenger
bringing pardon and life to you.

The original Italian:

Già i Sacerdoti adunansi
Arbitri del tuo fato;
Pur della accusa orribile
Scolparti ancor ti è dato;
Ti scolpa, e la tua grazia
Io pregherò dal trono,
E nunzia di perdono,
Di vita, a te sarò.


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## Maroseika

Помилование is the only synonym I can think up. But it's ;onger than прощение.
However "plead for you" is rather попрошу за тебя. So maybe one repetion less.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> However plead for you is rather попрошу за тебя.


Oh, that's cool! Does "Попрошу за тебя от трона" make any sense or am I extrapolating too far?

Невиновным признайся,
Попрошу за тебя от трона, / Попрошу за тебя перед троном, 

That sounds nicer to me than the original.


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## Maroseika

Попрошу за тебя у трона, заступлюсь за тебя перед троном.
Попросить у трона sounds a bit clumsy though, the more so it may seem anachronistic. Maybe better use царь or фараон.

Невиновным признайся is also wrong. What's meant is something like: невиновным тебя еще могут признать (closer to the original - освободиться от обвинений).


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> Maybe better use царь or фараон.


I.e. "Попрошу за тебя у царя" or "Попрошу царя за тебя"?


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## Maroseika

Dryan said:


> I.e. "Попрошу за тебя у царя" or "Попрошу царя за тебя"?


Попрошу царя за тебя. Просить у кого-либо за кого-либо is wrong, sorry for confusion.
However I think просить за кого-либо is too colloquial for this context. Maybe better заступлюсь за тебя перед царем.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> заступлюсь


  
Thank you!

I like the gravity this has. I think I need to shave off one syllable.
Is either one of these nicer sounding to natives than the other or are they both offensive?
"заступлюсь за тебя _пред_ царем." / "заступлюсь за _тя_ перед царем."


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## Maroseika

"За тя" is absolutely out of place, it's Church Slavonic and is not used in poetry to save a syllable. 
Пред instead of перед sounds poetic and is quite suitable here.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> "За тя" is absolutely out of place, it's Church Slavonic and is not used in poetry to save a syllable.
> Пред instead of перед sounds poetic and is quite suitable here.


 Thanks a lot! Not sure where I picked up _тя _but it could totally be from a religious context.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> Невиновным признайся is also wrong.



So I was trying to build a phrase from the dictionary to plead guilty/not guilty признава́ть*(призна́ть*perf) себя́ вино́вным[-ой] /невино́вным[-ой]

If I try and follow that template more closely, are "Признай себя невиновным" / "Признаешь себя невиновным" possible or am I splitting hairs?

I might be hung up on the English use of _plead. _It makes me want this to be imperative but it looks like that is not the case.
The Italian is also imperative _Ti scolpa / Exculpate yourself _


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## Maroseika

Dryan said:


> So I was trying to build a phrase from the dictionary to plead guilty/not guilty признава́ть*(призна́ть*perf) себя́ вино́вным[-ой] /невино́вным[-ой]


That's not precisely correct. I'm not sure about English "plead oneself unguilty", but in Russian somebody can only признать себя виновным. Признать себя невиновным is impossible because признать means here "to confess" (признаться, сознаться = согласиться с обвинением). Only some other one (usually judge or court) can признать кого-либо невиновным.
In fact, what's meant in English and Italian is оправдайся, очистись/освободись от обвинений, докажи свою невиновность etc.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> I'm not sure about English "plead oneself unguilty"


In English you can “plead guilty” or “plead not guilty” when formally accused.

A jury also finds you guilty/not guilty.


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## Maroseika

Dryan said:


> In English you can “plead guilty” or “plead not guilty” when formally accused.
> 
> A jury also finds you guilty/not guilty.


So in Russian, a defendant заявляет о своей невиновности and a jury признаёт его невиновным.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> So in Russian, a defendant заявляет о своей невиновности and a jury признаёт его невиновным.


OK. My interpretation of the dialogue in more basic terms is "_Plead innocent _and I will intercede on your behalf (and get the king involved in your sentencing)." He's _definitely _guilty but if he pleads not guilty it goes to trial and _she _can save him herself with her influence over the king.

Ultimately he doesn't enter a plea and they register it as nolo contendere.

Could I get away with _Заяви что ты невиновен _to mean _Plead innocent _in this context? I.e. _"Tell them you aren't guilty"_

I might also be injecting the American court system into "ancient Egypt" so I understand that I might just need to let this one go.


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## Maroseika

Dryan said:


> OK. My interpretation of the dialogue in more basic terms is "_Plead innocent _and I will intercede on your behalf (and get the king involved in your sentencing)."
> Could I get away with _Заяви что ты невиновен _to mean _Plead innocent _as well?


Technically yes, but not in this context, this expression is too "juridical".
I'd suggest:
Не признавай вины, а я буду молить за тебя перед царем.


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## Dryan

Maroseika said:


> Не признавай вины


I do like this version! Can I couple it with the last phrase re intercession: "Не признавай вины, а я заступлюсь за тебя перед царем."?

I think my qualm is that I think the situation _is_ judicial but this might be perfectly appropriate anyway. She cannot help him until he pleads innocent and goes to trial. If he pleads guilty or nolo contendere, he's automatically sentenced by the tribunal without a trial and she can't do anything about it.

There's a scene immediately after this:

Priest - "You're accused of high treason and delivering secrets to a foreign invader. How do you plead?"
Radames - (Amneris told him to plead "Not Guilty!" but he says nothing)
Priest - "Silence!"
Priests - "Traitor!" (default judgement without trial: nolo contendere)

So it's not so much _don't plead guilty_ rather _I can only help you if this goes to trial _and that only happens if he enters a plea of innocence.


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## Maroseika

Dryan said:


> I do like this version! Can I couple it with the last phrase re intercession: "Не признавай вины, а я заступлюсь за тебя перед царем."?


Yes, I think so.


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