# straszny / straszna (z niego maruda)



## Krzys7796

Hello all, 

could you please tell me which of the following is grammatically correct:

Straszny z niego maruda
Straszna z niego maruda 

thank you


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## kknd

*W*elcome to forum!

*I*nteresting question!* I* use solely second option—_ta maruda_—but *I* cannot tell for sure that _ten maruda_ is wrong… especially when speaking about a male. *I* think similar rule applies to other derogatory terms of this kind (_gapa_,  _pierdoła_); it almost for sure true for obscene descriptions (e.g. _ ciota, __ pizda, _ _c__ipa_) which have female gender but in most cases can be attributed to any sex…


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## siurpryza

The dictionary sjp.pl (http://sjp.pl/maruda) claims that both are correct. "Ten maruda" with men and "ta maruda" with women. You can also use "ta maruda" with men, when you want to emphasize those negative traits even more.


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## Thomas1

Welcome to the forum, Krzys!

They are both correct. The feminine form, as has been mentioned, is more emphatic.


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## Ben Jamin

I think that the word maruda is of feminine gender, and respective pronouns should conform to the gender of the term, not to the gender of the person described. The same applies to other feminine substantives, like "ofiara". It is important, however, not to confuse feminine substantives with masculine substantives ending in -a (zdrajca, kierowca, radca). Here the word itself is declined like a feminine noun, but adjectives, pronouns, etc. are in masculine form.

Examples: 
"on jest t*ą* nieszczęsn*ą* ofiar*ą*, któr*ej* składamy hołd" (feminine gender)
"on jest ty*m* znany*m* radcą miejskim, któr*ego* widziałeś w telewizji" (masculine gender, -a ending)

However, in sloppy colloquial speech these principles are often not respected, and general confusion  is the result, and phrases like ""on jest t*ym* nieszczęsn*ym* ofiar*ą*, któr*emu* składamy hołd" occur.

I don't consider this to be correct Polish, despite what certain dictionaries might write about it.

"Maruda", may, however, have ambiguous gender, and some people may treat the word the same way as "radca"..


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## LilianaB

Krzys7796 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> could you please tell me which of the following is grammatically correct:
> 
> Straszny z niego maruda
> Straszna z niego maruda
> 
> thank you



I think the second one sounds grammatically correct, or at least more natural. It is colloquial speech anyhow, so both may probably be used.


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## Ben Jamin

Polish ha a class of words, mostly abusive, like: maruda, oferma, pierdoła, łamaga, niedołęga, niezdara, niezguła, declined like feminine, but with an uncertain gender classification. They are mostly used as masculine nouns, and are accompanied by masculine pronouns and adjectives: “ten głupi niedołęga”. Sometimes they are treated like feminine nouns, some more often than others. For example “niedołęga” is mostly masculine, but in colloquial speech/slang can be feminine, while “maruda”  is mostly feminine , but in colloquial “speech/slang can be masculine. The noun “idiota”, also a term of abuse, is always  masculine in formal speech, but in colloquial speech/slang can sometimes be treated as feminine in order to strengthen the abuse.


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## kknd

Ben Jamin said:


> The noun “idiota”, also a term of abuse, is always  masculine in formal speech, but in colloquial speech/slang can sometimes be treated as feminine in order to strengthen the abuse.


*N*ever heard of  “ta idiota” only  “ten idiota” (even in informal speech); correct substitute for female is  “ta idiotka”.


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## BezierCurve

> never heard of  “ta idiota” only  “ten idiota” (even in informal speech); correct substitute for female is  “ta idiotka”.



I have. "Co ta idota wyczynia?!" sounds familiar, my mum used to say so (being very upset).


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## dreamlike

Ben Jami made an interesting point about 'idiota' being used in feminine to reinforce the abuse, but I don't think I've ever heard it, either. Maybe it's something that people used to say back in the past, but it's not really used these days...? My ears are pretty sensitive to language oddities such as this, so had anyone said it, I would have sure noticed.


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## Thomas1

I've heard it too. People also use 'idiota', and many other words, like that today. I guess it may be the question of what you're used to or, perhaps, people in your neck of the woods are not that game to offend others. I, for one, have heard 'niemota' used more in the feminine (referred to a man).


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## dreamlike

So that makes three of you... fair enough. Here where I live, people are just as 'game to offend others' as elsewhere, Thomas, they just don't seem to say 'ta idiota'. I've heard 'niemota' used in the feminine many a time, too, perhaps that's the only version I've ever heard, and it sort of makes perfect sense to say so.. but 'ta idiota' -- nah -- in spite of the fact they both of these two end in_ 'ta'._


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## Ben Jamin

kknd said:


> *N*ever heard of  “ta idiota” only  “ten idiota” (even in informal speech); correct substitute for female is  “ta idiotka”.



It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


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## dreamlike

That it does exist is indisputable.. given that there are at least three foreros who have heard of it. I was wondering, though, what purpose, other than sounding odd, can it possibly serve to say 'Ta idiota', when there's a female version -- 'idiotka' -- available for everyone to use. 'Reinforcing the abuse' doesn't quite convince me, although I find all this interesting.


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## Ben Jamin

dreamlike said:


> That it does exist is indisputable.. given that there are at least three foreros who have heard of it. I was wondering, though, what purpose, other than sounding odd, can it possibly serve to say 'Ta idiota', when there's a female version -- 'idiotka' -- available for everyone to use. 'Reinforcing the abuse' doesn't quite convince me, although I find all this interesting.



First I’d like to explain a couple of issues:


I write about a male person being called “ta idiota”, not a female, where only “idiotka” can be used.
The “reinforcing” theory is my own. It’s just like I perceive the described use.
I think that grammatically incorrect forms are sometimes used to reinforce a derogatory term.  One such example may be “pieniędzory”. I don’t find more at this moment, but I think the phenomenon is certainly much widespread.


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## BezierCurve

I agree with your theory. Another way (more legitimate) is for example using typical inanimate plural endings with animate nouns: "piraty", "profesory", "bandziory".


In case of "pieniądzory"/ "pieniędzory" it may also have something in common with augmentative forms.


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## dreamlike

I don't know what to make of it. Should I ever hear anyone say 'ta idiota', I'll just ask 'Why did you say so?', because, although Ben Jamin's theory sounds likely, there may be a better explanation.


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## Thomas1

This is not a theory. "ta idiota", "ta maruda", etc.; similarly "profesory", "biznesmeny", etc.; are legitimate Polish forms, which are simply more emphatic.


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## dreamlike

Could it be a regional thing? I asked around, and none of my family members, friends or acquaintances has ever heard of 'ta idiota', and on hearing you say so, they'd all give you a weird look. I agree about the rest, but 'ta idiota' just grates on my ears.


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## BezierCurve

What region are you from? The first entry I found here points to Warsaw. 

Knowing it myself I know you can hear it in Dolny Śląsk.

By the way - I've found a few entries where women used the form "ta idiota" when talking about other women (or themselves).


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## dreamlike

I'm from Lubelszczyzna. As far as I can recall, Kknd is from Warsaw, and he's never heard of it. Maybe we just didn't pay enough attention... My point still stands, it sounds odd, but people no doubt use it....


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## NotNow

Krzys7796 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> could you please tell me which of the following is grammatically correct:
> 
> Straszny z niego maruda
> Straszna z niego maruda
> 
> thank you



What is the English translation of this expression?

Thanks.


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## Ben Jamin

NotNow said:


> What is the English translation of this expression?
> 
> Thanks.



The meaning field of this word is quite wide, and is used in at least two main connotations, with many different shades. First of all it always is a unfavorable epithet for a person, mildly deprecating and condescending.
The first core meaning is: a grumbler,  a person incessantly complaining, and being a mild nuisance.
The second is: a slow, procrastinating person, always late and staying behind the others. 
It can also be used to denote a rather indeterminate underachiever, somebody without skills and drive to do things.
The common thing for all these meanings is that the word is mildly abusive, used often about children.

The verb "marudzić" means: 1. To grumble. 2. To stay behind. The origin is probably from French "marauder".


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## Thomas1

PWN-OXFORD:





> maru|da m, f (Npl m marudy, Gpl m marud a. marudów; Npl f marudy, Gpl f marud) pot., pejor.
> 1. (guzdrała) slowcoach GB pot., slowpoke US pot.; szybciej, marudo! hurry up, you slowcoach!
> 2. (zrzęda) bellyacher pot., whinger GB pot.; grumbler; dlaczego ty jesteś taka maruda? why are you such a bellyacher?


I've always come across the word only in the second meaning. I'm wondering if this is also the case with others.


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## dreamlike

Thomas1 said:


> PWN-OXFORD:I've always come across the word only in the second meaning. I'm wondering if this is also the case with others.


It is. I'm most used to the second meaning your entry mentions. For the first one I'd simply use 'maruder', which communicates the idea of _lagging behind_ better to me.


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## BezierCurve

I've come across the first meaning only in books and possibly in a few older movies.


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## Ben Jamin

BezierCurve said:


> I've come across the first meaning only in books and possibly in a few older movies.


I heard it mostly in the meaning "grumbler" whole my life.


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