# Slovak: Copyright stamp/ seal



## laur&a

Hello,
I'm trying to translate:
"..._ for copyright reasons this book may not be sold outside Slovakia and, in Slovakia on the Internet.
Books sold on the Internet without the copyright seal are to be considered pirated copies..."
_
I am aware that LITA do not provide stamps or seals for books, so I have used 'znamka', I also find on the web a nice expression which we do not have in English: 'Kamenna predajna' is it OK to use it?:
" ...z copyright dovodov predaj tejto knihy mimo Slovenska a na internete je prisne zakazany.
Na Slovensku, predaj je dovoleny len v kamennych predajnach.
Knihy predane na Internete bez _copyright znamok_  [sù ?] piratske publikovanie...."
Too many mistakes?
Thanks


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## Azori

> 'Kamenna predajna' is it OK to use it?


I think it would be ok to use "kamenná predajňa" (with diacritics).


> "..._ for copyright reasons this book may not be sold outside Slovakia and, in Slovakia on the Internet.
> Books sold on the Internet without the copyright seal are to be considered pirated copies..."_





> " ...z copyright dovodov predaj tejto knihy mimo Slovenska a na internete je prisne zakazany.
> Na Slovensku, predaj je dovoleny len v kamennych predajnych.
> Knihy predane na Internete bez _copyright znamok_  [sù ?] piratske publikovanie...."
> Too many mistakes?


My attempt:

... z dôvodu autorských práv je predaj tejto knihy mimo Slovenskej republiky a jej internetový predaj v Slovenskej republike zakázaný. V Slovenskej republike je predaj povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet bez označenia autorských práv budú považované za pirátske kópie.


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> ...z dôvodu autorských práv je predaj tejto knihy mimo *Slovenskej republiky* a jej internetový predaj v* Slovenskej republike* zakázaný. V Slovenskej republike je predaj povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet* bez označenia autorských práv* budú považované za pirátske kópie.



Thank you, Azori, for your reply and perfect translation. Just a couple of remarks:?
Books sold outside Slovakia bear a stamp (which *is stuck* to the title-page, just like a post stamp), only, it is  a hologram and is not falsifiable. _(probably you have seen it on CD or DVD)._
The publisher wants to help the buyer to understand that a copy without such stamp is illegal, that he has bought illegal goods. So, could you change the text in blue making that clear (he should check if the book carries a copyright protection stamp/ seal)? Is _"znamka_" not appropriate? What about "ochranna, autorska,...."

" ...z dovodu autorskych prav a licencnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo SR, a jej internetovy predaj aj v SR zakazany.
V SR je predaj povoleny len v kamennych predajniach.
Kniky predavane cez internet bez *autorskeho znamky * a bez pisomneho povolenia autora, budu povazovane za piratske kopie"

Thanks, again


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## Azori

> Text is written on the back cover and should be short: can we change* SR* with* Slovensko*?


I guess you can use _SR_, it's common enough. I would not recommend using _Slovensko_, though.

EDIT: laur&a deleted the question, I didn't notice


> Books sold outside Slovakia bear a stamp (which *is stuck* to the title-page, just like a post stamp), only, it is  a hologram and is not falsifiable. _(probably you have seen it on CD or DVD)._
> The publisher wants to help the buyer to understand that a copy without such stamp is illegal, that he has bought illegal goods. So, could you change the text in blue making that clear (he should check if the book carries a copyright protection stamp/ seal)? Is _"znamka_" not appropriate? What about "ochranna, autorska,...."


_Ochranná známka _means trademark in Slovak - a name / symbol identifying a product, officially registered and legally restricted to the use of the owner. I guess that's not what you're looking for. I used the word _označenie_ because its meaning is broader and more general than that of _známka_ and perhaps even more appropriate. Google gives only a few hits for "autorská známka". It doesn't seem to be common at all.


> ...z dovodu autorskych prav a licencnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo SR, a jej internetovy predaj aj v SR zakazany.
> V SR je predaj povoleny len v kamennych predajniach.
> Kniky predavane cez internet bez *autorskeho znamky *a bez pisomneho povolenia autora, budu povazovane za piratske kopie"


... z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. V SR je predaj povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet bez autorskej známky a písomného povolenia autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.


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## laur&a

That's great, Azori, a thousand thanks.
If you had not translated it and read it on the back cover, would you expect to find a stamp inside the book?
Vel'mi pekne d'akujem


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## Azori

> If you had not translated it and read it on the back cover, would you expect to find a stamp inside the book?


Maybe. But "autorská" doesn't really imply "copyright", or at least the meaning of "autorská známka" would not be very clear here.

This "stamp" is probably called _hologram_ or _holografická nálepka_ (holographic sticker) or _holografická známka_.


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> Maybe. But *"autorská" doesn't really imply "copyright*", or at least the meaning of "autorská známka" would not be very clear here.
> 
> This "stamp" is probably called _hologram_ or _holografická nálepka_ (holographic sticker) or* holografická známka*.


"autorska" implies that the stamps are assigned personally to the author, and bear his name, the title of the book and a serial number as you can see here at the bottom: http://www.duplicazionecdvd.com/9.asp
What about "kolok" is it more appropriate? "holograficky kolok lepeny v titulnej strane" ? is this more clear?


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## Azori

> What about "kolok" is it more appropriate? "holograficky kolok lepeny v titulnej strane" ? is this more clear?


_Kolok_ is a kind of a stamp that serves as an evidence of payment of an administrative / official charge.

Perhaps you could use: autorská známka s ochranným holografickým prvkom (with a safety holographic component) nalepená na titulnej strane

By the way, do you really mean "titulná strana"? The word "strana" mostly refers to pages in a book, not so much to a book cover.


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## laur&a

The stamp is stuck on (the frontespice), the title-page, just under the title and the name of the author. 
Of course the full explanation can be given in the Imprint and not on the back cover. I've seen such a statement on the famous Learner's
Thank you for your kind help, Azori


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> The stamp is stuck on (the frontespice), the title-page, just under the title and the name of the author.


A frontispiece and a title page aren't the same thing, are they? I suppose you mean a page _inside_ a book. If so, I'd suggest using _titulný list knihy_ instead of _titulná strana_ (I can imagine some could interpret _titulná strana_ as a book cover).

As for the stamp, another possibility - certifikát pravosti (certificate of authenticity).

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/antipiracy/pages/COA_hologram.aspx#fbid=ixyOP6DPYYn

http://www.microsoft.com/sk-sk/howtotell/Software.aspx


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> As for the stamp, another possibility -* certifikát pravosti *(certificate of authenticity).
> 2) Afrontispiece and a title page aren't the same thing, are they?



Azori, you are a genius! that's it "*certifikat pravosti"*. The point is that this is a neologism and a technical term, no less obscure than "autorska znamka" to the general public. I suppose* no one *would expect to find a stamp inside the book.  But I'll go for it.!

2) yes, you are right!, I was thinking in Italian, if you see your link "title page" and click on "italian", you'll see that title-page in Italian is *"frontespizio"*, which in English is a picture besides the title page. 
There is: the cover_ (obalka)_, the flyleaf _(predsadka)_, the title page _(titulna strana)_ the recto, and its verso: the copyright page _(tiraz)_. Here thw short sentence on the back cover will be explained in full.
_(I couldn't find a picture on google, but you can imagine  a "COA hologram" (certifikat pravosti) stuck just below the title of the book.)_

So: "z dovodu...knihy bez [nalepeneho] hologramu ,Certifikat[?] Pravosti, na titulnei strany budu pozazovane...."

Is this clear enough for the man in the (Slovak) street?


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## Azori

... z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. V SR je predaj povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet bez certifikátu pravosti (vo forme štítku s ochranným holografickým prvkom nalepenom na titulnom liste knihy) a písomného povolenia autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.

This isn't really short but it should be clear enough. I've added the word "štítok" (label, sticker, tag) - "vo forme štítku" - lit. "in a form of a label". "s ochranným holografickým prvkom" and "nalepenom" could be omitted, I think. "na titulnom liste knihy" could be perhaps replaced with "na titulnej strane knihy", but I personally think this one wouldn't be very clear.


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## laur&a

That's great, Azori! In the imprint the sentence may as long as it is necessary.
I am not particularly familiar with "stitok", so I preferred nalepka, but probably for Slovaks it is as clear.
Thanks again


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## Azori

You can use "vo forme nálepky" instead of "vo forme štítku".


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> "na titulnom liste knihy" could be perhaps replaced with *"na titulnej strane knihy*", but I personally think this one wouldn't be very clear.



That's great,Azori.
But come to think about it, this is going to be written in th Imprint (tiraz) which is simply the "verso" of the title page.
Could we find a simple an clear way of stating it : " if there is no hologram stuck on the "recto" of this page a/this book is to be considered..."
Co Vy na to?


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> But come to think about it, this is going to be written in th Imprint (tiraz) which is simply the "verso" of the title page.
> Could we find a simple an clear way of stating it : " if there is no hologram stuck on the "recto" of this page a/this book is to be considered..."


recto = predná strana

"na prednej strane titulného listu knihy" ("na prednej strane titulnej strany knihy" does not sound good, in my opinion)

... z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. V SR je predaj povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet bez certifikátu pravosti (vo forme nálepky s ochranným holografickým prvkom nalepenej na prednej strane titulného listu knihy) a písomného povolenia autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> recto = predná strana
> 
> "na prednej strane titulného listu knihy" ("na prednej strane titulnej strany knihy" does not sound good, in my opinion)
> .



This sentence is printed on the back of the title page , so titulnej strany is not necessary, that is what I meant
And, don't you think that "hologram" is more accessible than "certifikat pravosti?
If you agree, I suppose "bez hologramu na prednej strane" should be short and clear enough. Do you agree?
Anyway the publisher will have the last word. I like to try my best.

Thank you,Azori


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> This sentence is printed on the back of the title page , so titulnej strany is not necessary, that is what I meant
> And, don't you think that "hologram" is more accessible than "certifikat pravosti?
> If you agree, I suppose "bez hologramu na prednej strane" should be short and clear enough. Do you agree?
> Anyway the publisher will have the last word. I like to try my best.
> 
> Thank you,Azori


Well, "strana" in Slovak doesn't mean just "page", it also means "side", so "predná strana" can also mean "front side". It may not be clear what is actually meant. I'd suggest "na opačnej strane tohto listu" = on the reverse side of this page / leaf. Regarding hologram, it means just that - a hologram (that is, _any _kind of a hologram).


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> Well, "strana" in Slovak doesn't mean just "page", it also means "side", so "predná strana" can also mean "front side". It may not be clear what is actually meant. I'd suggest "na opačnej strane tohto listu" = on the reverse side of this page / leaf. Regarding hologram, it means just that - *a hologram (that is, any kind of a hologram).*


Yes that's right, Azori, that is what I mean.* Everybody knows* what a hologram is. If we tell them they should expect to find a hologram somewhere in the book, they will understand. The places where to look for it aren't many, after all! 
Don't you think that anyway ".*.predavane bez hologramu..*." might be sufficient? I'll suggest to the publisher to write, beside the boxlet for the stamp, a caption in both languages "hologram (COA)" and "certifikat pravosti", *that* would make thing more simple avoiding long, abstract explanations
I see you are exraordinarily patient and meticulous
Thanks Azori


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> *Everybody knows* what a hologram is. If we tell them they should expect to find a hologram somewhere in the book, they will understand. The places where to look for it aren't many, after all!
> Don't you think that anyway ".*.predavane bez hologramu..*." might be sufficient?


Yes, it might be sufficient, but it could also make some people put false holographic stickers in the books and sell them on the Internet anyway.


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> Yes, it might be sufficient, but it could also make some people put false holographic stickers in the books and sell them on the Internet anyway.


That is what a hologram is for, it cannot be falsified. And if someone sell a book *with a false sticker*, I suppose, it is a much more serious offence than selling a book on the Internet  *without* a sticker. But this is the publisher's problem, not the translators', we must only make an understandable translation.

Thank you for your kind help, Azori, it is always a great pleasure to discuss with you.
See you soon


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> *Everybody knows* what a hologram is.


I don't think so. It's not a common word in Slovak. Of course, it may not be a problem to find out the meaning, but I think the text should be understandable to the general public (not only to those who know what a hologram is).


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> I don't think so. It's not a common word in Slovak. Of course, it may not be a problem to find out the meaning, but I think the text should be understandable to the general public (not only to those who know what a hologram is).



Then, whath about nalepka?


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## Azori

holografická nálepka

nálepka s (ochranným) holografickým prvkom

There may be a more appropriate name for this, but I'm not an expert.


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> holografická nálepka



All right, Azori, I'll go for that: whoever doesn't know a hologram will look for a sticker! "...* knihy bez holografickej nalepky budu..*." that's quite short and clear.

I'll recall some of your proposals, just in case someone wants to chip in and have his pick:
"autorska znamka, stitok, certifikat pravosti, holograficka nalepka, hologram, ochranna nalepka".,by the way, what English-Slovak dictionary do you use?
I sent a post in the thread about "euro"
Thanks again
wh


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> ...* knihy bez holografickej nalepky budu..*." that's quite short and clear.


Do you plan to use the text without diacritics? Or is it just too hard for you to use proper spelling?


> I'll recall some of your proposals, just in case someone wants to chip in and have his pick:
> "autorska znamka, stitok, certifikat pravosti, holograficka nalepka, hologram, ochranna nalepka".


I didn't make any proposals for words spelled this way. 


> by the way, what English-Slovak dictionary do you use?
> I sent a post in the thread about "euro"


What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?


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## laur&a

Azori said:


> Do you plan to use the text without diacritics?
> Or is it just too hard for you to use proper spelling?


Of course not.
Yes, it's a bit hard, 
I am awfully sorry for the rap on the knuckles: is also *"holografickà nàlepka*"  irksome?


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## Azori

laur&a said:


> is also *"holografickà nàlepka*"  irksome?


Do you think it should not be irksome? The only correct spelling is "holografická nálepka".


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## jarabina

To help solve this quandry.

 Here are the two versions in Slovak and English



> z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo  SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. V SR je predaj  povolený len v kamenných predajniach. Knihy predávané cez internet bez  certifikátu pravosti (vo forme nálepky s ochranným holografickým prvkom  nalepenej na prednej strane titulného listu knihy) a písomného povolenia  autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.





> "..._ for copyright reasons this book may not be sold outside Slovakia and, in Slovakia on the Internet.
> Books sold on the Internet without the copyright seal are to be considered pirated copies..."_



Azori is the expert here so I would absolutely accept her comments on the Slovak. My only comment would be that in comparison to English, Slovak words are generally far less specific and therefore need to be carefully defined (esp. since this is for legal purposes). My instinct would therefore be to not shorten this too much. I personally would probably keep* certifikátu pravosti* and *(vo forme holografickej nálepky)*. This is because certificate of authenticity is not being used in the English version. Nonetheless I think you need it because as Azori has said holografická nálepka is too vague.  By keeping the bit in the brackets you add a clear definition of what *certifikátu pravosti *means in this context. 

So, perhaps this:

z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo  SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. Knihy predávané cez internet bez  certifikátu pravosti (vo forme holografickej nálepky) a písomného povolenia  autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.

(I removed the bit about the shops as it seemed unnecessary.)

What does everyone think?


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## laur&a

That's great, what is the English for " kamennà predajna"?


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## jarabina

laur&a said:


> That's great, what is the English for " kamennà predajna"?



Bricks and mortar shops/stores


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## Azori

jarabina said:


> Azori is the expert here so I would absolutely accept her comments on the Slovak.


Thank you for your supportive words, jarabina. 


> My instinct would therefore be to not shorten this too much.


I agree. The initial text wasn't really long but later laur&a added extra words and it was quite difficult to keep it short. In my opinion, "predávané bez holografickej nálepky" (sold without a holographic sticker) has pretty much the same informational value as say, "predávané bez nálepky" (sold without a sticker).


> So, perhaps this:
> 
> z dôvodu autorských práv a licenčnej zmluvy je predaj tejto knihy mimo  SR, ako aj jej internetový predaj v SR, zakázaný. Knihy predávané cez internet bez  certifikátu pravosti (vo forme holografickej nálepky) a písomného povolenia  autora budú považované za pirátske kópie.
> 
> (I removed the bit about the shops as it seemed unnecessary.)
> 
> What does everyone think?


I find both those sentences a bit complicated and somewhat clumsy, but laur&a wants a short text, so let it be short.


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## laur&a

Thank you both, Azori and jarabina for your invaluable help.
I'll let you know the decision of the _(Italian_) publisher, ( and, I guess, the _Italian_ author).
The text needs be short only on the back cover, but in the inprint there's plenty of space.


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