# gaikokujin-ni shitewa yoku hanasemasune



## parlo

I only heard it from Pimsleur Japanese lesson 3, they say it in the last 2 minutes but don't give the meaning, I try to write it in romaji:

go haiko go jinni shitewa yoku hanasemasune.

If anybody can help translate it many thanks!


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## Wishfull

Hi.
Is it typo of "gaikokujin-ni shitewa yoku hanasemasune."?

If so, "You can speak very well as a foerigner, can't you?"


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## parlo

That's it! But can someone explain better this part: "gaikokujin-ni shitewa"

What does it mean part by part?


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## Starfrown

Wishfull said:


> Hi.
> Is it typo of "gaikokujin-ni shitewa yoku hanasemasune."?
> 
> If so, "You can speak very well for a foreigner, can't you?"






parlo said:


> That's it! But can someone explain better this part: "gaikokujin-ni shitewa"
> 
> What does it mean part by part?


Benvenuto parlo. Spero che la mia risposta possa aiutarti.

The combination of the particle _ni_ with the verb _suru_, meaning "to do," must be translated as "to make."

You also must understand that the combination of the _te_-form with the particle _wa_ results in a construction that is often best translated with a conditional. It is perhaps better literally understood by a combination of "as for" and the gerund. Example from the movie _Zatoichi_:

こんな狭いところで刀そんな風につかんじゃ駄目だよ
_Konna semai tokoro de katana sonna fuu ni tsukanja (=tsukande wa) dame da yo._

Translation (not very natural, but it will illustrate my point):
"If you draw your sword in such a cramped place, it'll be no good."

More literally:
"As for drawing your sword in such a cramped place..."

Therefore, I think we may understand _gaikokujin_ _ni shite wa_ as:

"If [one] makes [it] a foreigner..."

which is roughly equivalent to:

"If one is talking of a foreigner..."

which is essentially the same as:

"For a foreigner..."

I'd like to know what the native speakers think of my interpretation.


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## parlo

I know gaijin means foreigner so what's "koku" between gai and jin? And what does shitewa mean?


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## Starfrown

parlo said:


> I know gaijin means foreigner so what's "koku" between gai and jin? And what does shitewa mean?


 
_Koku_ is "country."

_Gaikokujin_ = "foreign country person" = "foreigner"

_Shite_ is the _te_-form of _suru_. I don't know whether you have learned the _te_-form yet. If not, you should read up on it. There are plenty of internet resources that address it, I'm sure.

The combination of _shite _and the particle_ wa_ could be translated as:

"If [I/you/one] do/does [it]..."

Keep in mind that this is only a rough guide. You cannot always translate it with a conditional. You must study the _te_-form to gain a fuller sense of its meaning.

Spesso è difficile tradurre letteralmente anche le espressioni giapponesi più semplici.


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## Wishfull

Thank you, Starfrown, for correction. (as→for)

Hi,Parlo.
I agree with Starfrown.
But I think you had better not analysis each part of "nishitewa",
because native like me never thought of it.

For example;

*Your English is excellent for Japanese.* 
*nihon-jin nishitewa eigo ga umai desune.*

=Your English is not natural for a native speaker but I can understand it. It is no good for a native speaker, but I would rather say it is some kind of "good" English or "excellent" one,  because I take it into consideration that usual Japanese can't speak English at all, or their Englsih is usually very poor. In other words, "Your English might be excellent, if I think about Japanese people's English ability."


In this example; for=nishitewa

I advice you had better learn "*nishitewa*" as idiomatic expression that means "*for*" in English.

Wishfull.


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## Derselbe

parlo said:


> I know gaijin means foreigner so what's "koku" between gai and jin? And what does shitewa mean?



Gaijin is an abbreviation of gaikokujin. It might sound rude and insulting and some foreigners might get angry when they hear it. You will certainly not want to use it in formal situations.

Literally translated gaikokujin means "person from another country"
and gaijin means "person from outside", so it can contain the meaning that you don't belong there.


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## Derselbe

Wishfull said:


> In this example; for=nishitewa
> 
> I advice you had better learn "*nishitewa*" as idiomatic expression that means "*for*" in English.



But there are a lot of ways to express "for a person" in Japanese, aren't they?

外国人には難しすぎる。外国人にとって難しすぎる。　　(It's too difficult for a foreigner)

but
外国人にしては日本語が上手だね。　(He speaks good Japanese for a foreigner)
外国人には日本語が上手だね。外国人にとって日本語が上手だね (That seems wrong to me. But I'm not sure.)

So I prefer to tranlate those things in a way that makes them unique also in English:

外国人にしては日本語が上手だね。= He speaks good Japanese considering that he's a foreigner/if you keep in mind that he's a foreigner.

If you learn it this way you are not in danger of confusing Japanese constructions that can be translated by the same word in English.

Starfrown: I never thought about te-form that way. Very interesting. It will certainly help me getting closer to understanding Japanese grammar. Thanks for that. And it explains why
しないといけない and
しなくてはいけない　mean the same thing.

I never heard something like
するといけない but following that logic it should be the same as してはいけない. Is that correct?


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## Starfrown

Starfrown said:


> こんな狭いところで刀そんな風につかんじゃ駄目だよ
> _Konna semai tokoro de katana sonna fuu ni tsukanja (=tsukande wa) dame da yo._
> 
> Translation (not very natural, but it will illustrate my point):
> "If you draw your sword in that way in such a cramped place, it'll be no good."
> 
> More literally:
> "As for drawing your sword in that way in such a cramped place..."


Left out an important detail.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
I advice you one more thing.

praising something for a person→nishitewa
saying something good, affirmative, positive for a person→nishitewa

saying someting negative, putting down for a person→niwa, nitottewa.

See, you can learn easily.


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## Flaminius

Derselbe said:


> Starfrown: I never thought about te-form that way. Very interesting. It will certainly help me getting closer to understanding Japanese grammar. Thanks for that. And it explains why
> しないといけない and
> しなくてはいけない　mean the same thing.
> 
> I never heard something like
> するといけない but following that logic it should be the same as してはいけない. Is that correct?


するといけない is used in the sense of "must not" as in (shameless Web search):
足のためにはあまり太るといけないんですよね。
They shouldn't gain much weight for the feet, right?

It has another meaning at least as frequent as the sense of prohibition.  I don't know how to call it in a word but it is on a par with "lest something should happen":
濡れるといけないからレインコートを着なよ。
Put on your raincoat lest you should get wet.

いけない here is not so much the speaker's ban on getting wet as his worry that the listener may get wet.  You cannot say 濡れてはいけない to express your worry.


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