# ought to know better



## AGT55

Hi everyone. I'm translating the following text and I'm having some trouble figuring out a translation for "ought to know better" that sounds natural in Spanish. The text is talking about people who apply for a driver's license and what they do on the test. Any suggestions?

Context:
And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.


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## gengo

AGT55 said:


> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.



That seems an odd context in which to use the phrase, since everyone ought to know better not to do those things.  Therefore, I think it could simply be ignored in the translation.

If you have to include it, I guess you could say something like "He visto a un estudiante, que debería saber manejar mejor / saber que no debe hacerlo, manejar el coche ..."

You can improve on that.


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## Azarosa

@AGT55, le propongo: _... Y he visto a un estudiante, que se supone ya conoce las reglas de circulación dentro de un estacionamiento, golpear varios obstáculos y esperar aprobar su examen de manejo porque lo hizo más rápido que cualquiera ~ que el resto. _(Algunos de estos términos pueden variar, dependiendo del país).


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## AGT55

gengo said:


> That seems an odd context in which to use the phrase, since everyone ought to know better not to do those things.  Therefore, I think it could simply be ignored in the translation.
> 
> If you have to include it, I guess you could say something like "He visto a un estudiante, que debería saber manejar mejor / saber que no debe hacerlo, manejar el coche ..."
> 
> You can improve on that.


Thank you. Yes, it is a bit of an odd context for the phrase, but I'd prefer not to omit it. I guess the best would be to translate the meaning rather than looking for a Spanish expression.


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## AGT55

Azarosa said:


> @AGT55, le propongo: _... Y he visto a un estudiante, que se supone ya conoce las reglas de circulación dentro de un estacionamiento, golpear varios obstáculos y esperar aprobar su examen de manejo porque lo hizo más rápido que cualquiera ~ que el resto. _(Algunos de estos términos pueden variar, dependiendo del país).


Gracias, Azarosa. Me parece una buena idea lo que propones.


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## swift

AGT55 said:


> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.


_... un estudiante que no puede fingir desconocimiento...

... un estudiante que debería saber cómo funcionan las cosas..._


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## elroy

How about "...que se supone que ya se entera"?  Would that work?  Not sure if "se entera" can be used _a secas_.


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## swift

Por estos cafetales no suena idiomático, don @elroy.


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## AGT55

Thank you @swift, that also sounds like a good option.


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## AGT55

Thank you @elroy, though, unless it's an actual idiom that I'm not familiar with, I don't think we can use "se entera" that way.


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## SydLexia

"que supuestamente sabe de qué va a cosa"  ??

syd


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## AmideLanval

AGT55 said:


> Context:
> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.



Un aprendiz/alumno - que tampoco es que fuera principiante/que no tenía la excusa de ser principiante - chocó con varios obstáculos y aún así creyó que iba a aprobar por haber terminado el examen en menos tiempo que los demás.


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## elroy

AGT55 said:


> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.





Azarosa said:


> _... Y he visto a un estudiante, que se supone ya conoce las reglas de circulación dentro de un estacionamiento, golpear varios obstáculos y esperar aprobar su examen de manejo porque lo hizo más rápido que cualquiera ~ que el resto._





AmideLanval said:


> Un aprendiz/alumno - que tampoco es que fuera principiante/que no tenía la excusa de ser principiante - chocó con varios obstáculos y aún así creyó que debía haber aprobado por haber terminado el examen en menos tiempo que los demás.


Why did you both omit “run the car through the parking space“?


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## AmideLanval

elroy said:


> Why did you both omit “run the car through the parking space“?



I think we just didn't like that part so we left it out.
(...in reality, I somehow managed to overlook it, pardon me...)

"no parqueó donde tocaba/llegó a donde toca parquear y siguió adelante" is my attempt, in any case


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## sound shift

AGT55 said:


> Context:
> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.


The English looks incomplete to me, though no one else has said the same, so I wonder if it's a regional matter.

I think this would be correct, and easier to understand, if worded: "And I've seen a student who ought to know better *than to *run the car through the parking space ..."


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## Bevj

I'm not sure I agree with sound shift.

A student who ought to know better
1) ran the car through the parking space
2) hit several obstacles
3) expected to pass.


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## AmideLanval

Bevj said:


> I'm not sure I agree with sound shift.
> 
> A student who ought to know better
> 1) ran the car through the parking space
> 2) hit several obstacles
> 3) expected to pass.



I second your (near-)disagreement. The phrase sounds perfectly idiomatic to me.


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## sound shift

Yes. I read it wrongly, despite reading it about five times!


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## Azarosa

@elroy, en mi caso fue solo para alivianar la oración, pero el faltante está implícito en "...ya conoce las reglas de circulación dentro de un estacionamiento!. Pero si la preferís completa, diría: _Y he visto a un estudiante, que se supone sabe maniobrar dentro de un estacionamiento, golpear varios obstáculos y esperar aprobar su examen de manejo porque lo hizo más rápido que cualquiera ~ que el resto._


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## SydLexia

"He should know better." means more or less "Es un imbecil (porque no sabe)."

I also agree with Bevj.

He was an idiot who:

1) failed the parking test because he did not respect the established limits ("pisó/pasó una línea")

2) hit several obstacles during the 'slalom' test' ( = zigzagear por una línea de conos sin tocarlos)

3) thought he was a winner because he was so fast. (más rápido que nadie/que los demás)

"Yo he visto a un imbecil de estudiante que después de sobrepasar los limitesdurante la prueba de estacionamiento y luego volcar algunos conos durante la prueba del zigzageo........... "

A translation 'a modo de orientación'....

syd


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## elroy

To me, it means "has no excuse."



swift said:


> _... un estudiante que no puede fingir desconocimiento..._


 That's the idea.


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## swift

Estaba pensando en lo que diría una madre costarricense y creo que sería algo como “al que no le luce hacerse el tonto”. 😅


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## jmx

AGT55 said:


> ... a student who ought to know better ...


My proposal: "un estudiante que (ya) debería estar al tanto".

EDIT: Another one. "Un estudiante que debería tener más conocimiento".


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## Penyafort

AGT55 said:


> And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.



To me, the English sentence sounds weird. I assume it means:

_Y he visto a un alumno que debería haber sabido de sobra que no iba a aprobar si se daba con varios obstáculos al conducir por la zona de aparcamiento solo por haber hecho la prueba más rápido que nadie._


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## swift

Penyafort said:


> que debería haber sabido de sobra que no iba a aprobar


😯 Creo que con eso se está yendo mucho más allá de lo que da a entender el original...


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## gengo

swift said:


> 😯 Creo que con eso se está yendo mucho más allá de lo que da a entender el original...



I agree.  "Ought to know better" simply means something like "se supone que sabe."  

The "better" in this case does not mean "mejor," and it's just part of a set expression.



*know better* _vi + adv__informal_ (be sufficiently wise)saber _loc verb_  ser más sabio _loc verb_  ser sensato _loc verb_ Shame on you – at your age you should know better! _¡Una vergüenza! ¡A tu edad ya lo deberías saber!_


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## Penyafort

If you think 'de sobra' is excessive, just replace it with a 'ya' in my sentence. I don't think there is a difference in meaning, only in the 'quantity' of his expected knowledge.


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## gengo

Penyafort said:


> If you think 'de sobra' is excessive, just replace it with a 'ya' in my sentence. I don't think there is a difference in meaning, only in the 'quantity' of his expected knowledge.



The part that goes too far is "que no iba a aprobar."  The original does not say that.  What the student should have known better is not to do what he did.


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## Penyafort

gengo said:


> The part that goes too far is "que no iba a aprobar."  The original does not say that.  What the student should have known better is not to do what he did.



"Expect to pass"?


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## elroy

And I’ve seen a student [who ought to know better] do three things:

(1) run the car through the parking space,
(2) hit several obstacles
and
(3) expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else.

“who ought to know better” is a fixed expression.  It’s complete on its own.  The thing that they ought to know better than is implied by context.

Here: He ought to know better than to do (1) and (2) (and expect to pass) = he ought to know that you can’t do (1) and (2) (and expect to pass)

Another example:

A: I can’t believe he would leave you with all the work and just play video games the whole time! That’s so inconsiderate.
B: Don’t get too upset; he’s only 13 and doesn’t know any better.
or
B: I know!  He’s not a little child.  He should know better.

Sometimes the “than” part is explicitly stated:

Come on, Kevin, you should know better than to talk to him like that.


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## Ballenero

…que tendría que/ que debería
saber aparcar, tirar varios obstáculos


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## gengo

Penyafort said:


> "Expect to pass"?



That's not the part that is modified by "ought to know better."

_And I’ve seen a student who ought to know better run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else._

Reworded:
_And I’ve seen a student run the car through the parking space, hit several obstacles, and expect to pass because he did the test faster than everyone else, and that student should have known that doing such things was not acceptable._


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