# Hindi, Urdu: Nam-o-nishaan



## bargolus

What does the word naam-o-nishaan / नामोनिशान / نام-و-نشان mean?

I have a Hindi-speaking friend from Odisha who uses it a lot, but he has difficulty explaining to me how it is used.

From what I gather, it is generally used in a periphrastic way to mean "nothing" with an additional emphasis, for example:

us gav mein koi naam-o-nishaan nehin tha - there was absolutely nothing in that village

But it would be good to confirm with others?


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## Qureshpor

naam means name and nishaan can be translated into many words such as mark/trace/sign/badge/emblem etc etc

naam-o-nishaan

The "o" between the two words means "and".

This construction comes from Persian into Urdu and depending on the context, it could mean " Name and address or particulars"; — "sign, mark, trace, vestige".

us jagah par paanii kaa *naam-o-nishaan *nahiiN thaa.

In that place there was not a *trace* of water.

The sentence you have quoted is missing the object whose existence is being negated.


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## bargolus

Ookay that makes sense. Can it be used in a metaphorical sense as in:

COVID-19 ke dauraan naukari kaa naam-o-nishaan nehiin tha

To mean very roughly

Jobs were practically non-existent during COVID-19

or maybe

During COVID-19, there was no sign of a job (on the horizon)

?


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## Qureshpor

bargolus said:


> Ookay that makes sense. Can it be used in a metaphorical sense as in:
> 
> COVID-19 ke dauraan naukari kaa naam-o-nishaan nehiin tha
> 
> To mean very roughly
> 
> Jobs were practically non-existent during COVID-19
> 
> or maybe
> 
> COVID-19, there was no sign of a job on the horizon
> 
> ?


Well, it seems rather a drastic way to say there was no sign of jobs due to Covid - 19. I would not use "naam-o-nishaan" here. There are other perfectly good Urdu words that would fit your context.

Covid - 19 ke dauraan mulaazimat taqriib-an *naa-paid* thii.

During Covid -19, employment was next to *non-existent*.


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## bargolus

Okay, brilliant - thanks!


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## littlepond

bargolus said:


> What does the word naam-o-nishaan / नामोनिशान / نام-و-نشان mean?



Literally, "name and vestige": used, for example, in sentences like "us kaa naam-o-nishaan vahaaN se miT gayaa" - that, literally, would be "his name and vestige/traces got erased from there," that is, "no sign/trace of him/that was left there."

@Qureshpor jii's suggestion in the jobs and Covid case is an excellent one, to use something like "naa-paid ho jaanaa" (gone missing). Even in English, you wouldn't say "no trace of jobs" or "no sign of jobs": that would be quite weird for something like a "job" that, in fact, can be created at will (at least, by the government). But if Covid itself vanishes, let's say, one fine day in some particular area, then you could certainly say "vahaaN kauviD kaa naam-o-nishaan nahiiN rahaa/bachaa."


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## PersoLatin

This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.

Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally eradicated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its eradication will be the main point of the conversation.


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> Literally, "name and vestige": used, for example, in sentences like "us kaa naam-o-nishaan vahaaN se miT gayaa" - that, literally, would be "his name and vestige/traces got erased from there," that is, "no sign/trace of him/that was left there."
> 
> @Qureshpor jii's suggestion in the jobs and Covid case is an excellent one, to use something like "*naa-paid ho jaanaa" *(*gone missing*).


Thank you, littlepond Jii, but with one qualification. At least in Urdu, "naa-paid" implies the non-existence of thing/s or person/s. I say this because this may have different connotations in Hindi. McGrgor gives the meaning as "un-born"!


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.
> 
> Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally irradiated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its irradiation will be the main point of the conversation.


Thank you PersoLatin. In Urdu "naam-o-nishaan" is used in the same way as Persian with one difference, often and especially in poetry, the "n" of "nishaan" is nasalised (nuun-i-Ghunnah).


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> At least in Urdu, "naa-paid" implies the non-existence of thing/s or person/s. I say this because this may have different connotations in Hindi.



Hindi has the same connotation, @Qureshpor jii: it is a very commonly used word. The pronunciation can be both "naa-paid" and "naa-ped."


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> Hindi has the same connotation, @Qureshpor jii: it is a very commonly used word. The pronunciation can be both "naa-paid" and "naa-ped."


OK, thank you. I wonder why McGregor's "The Oxford-Hindi" dictionary gives the meaning of "naa-paid" as "unborn" (page 549) while Cahurvedi has the entry, "rare, scarce" neither of which conform with the Urdu meaning "non-existent". Also, in Urdu it does not mean "gone missing" as you have indicated in post 6.


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> Also, in Urdu it does not mean "gone missing" as you have indicated in post 6.



I was not giving a literal translation there.


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## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> naa-paid


Can anyone tell me if naa-paid/ped is related to Persian ناپیدا/nâ-peydâ or ناپدید/nâ-padid?


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## Qureshpor

Yes, ناپید is the shortened form of نا پیدا. In Urdu, it is always naa-paid ( your nâ-peyd)


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## desi4life

In Hindi “naa-paid” is used in the following meanings per Hindi Shabd Sagar:

*नापैद* *nāpaid*

वि० [फ़ा० *ना*+* पैदा*]

१. जो पैदा न होता हो । २. न मिलनेवाला । अप्राप्य ।


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> In Hindi “naa-paid” is used in the following meanings per Hindi Shabd Sagar:
> 
> *नापैद* *nāpaid*
> 
> वि० [फ़ा० *ना*+* पैदा*]
> 
> १. जो पैदा न होता हो । २. न मिलनेवाला । अप्राप्य ।


Thank you @desi4life. How do you understand the first meaning please?


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## desi4life

I would translate the first meaning as “that which is not born” and the second meaning as “unattainable, non-existent”.


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> I would translate the first meaning as “that which is not born” and the second meaning as “unattainable, non-existent”.


Thank you. Much appreciated.


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## bargolus

PersoLatin said:


> This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.
> 
> Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally eradicated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its eradication will be the main point of the conversation.



Thanks that useful - do you have any examples?

I'm trying to understand when you would say that there is no nam-o-nishaan of a thing as opposed to just saying that the thing is missing? It seems to be when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed, as opposed to a thing being temporarily or partially gone?


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## littlepond

bargolus said:


> It seems to be when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed, as opposed to a thing being temporarily or partially gone?



Yes, you've got it right (at least as far as Hindi is concerned), but do remember that when the speaker intends for the impression that "when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed." The reality may or may not be that.


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## bargolus

Thanks so much!


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## littlepond

littlepond said:


> ... when the speaker intends for the impression that "when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed." The reality may or may not be that.



That's why it is often used in threats: e.g., "teraa naam-o-nishaan miTaa dooNgaa" (I will remove even the last vestiges of you).


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