# Attitudes of and towards doctors



## jonquiliser

How are doctors viewed in “your” country/culture (this with “your culture” is really quite absurd, but let’s just say, what your impressions are of what you have seen around you)? Do they enjoy great respect or authority, are they believed to be able to provide the solution to any and all health issues, are they frowned upon, are they thought to be useless…? And how are doctors – do they tend to listen to their patients, be arrogant, be dismissive of health complaints…? (I’m aware of the glaring generality of this, but I’m trying to abide by forum rules..!) So please, bearing in mind that there are all kinds of doctors, what are the “general tendencies” in your experience?

I'm in public health care, so I usually go to different doctors, and I've come across quite a few, let’s say “less agreeable” ones.

For example, I went to a general practitioner to talk about issues that I have had for a very long, and been to several doctors before about. I just barely got started before he interrupted me, told me that I needed more exercise (and I was doing lots, but he wouldn't let me say that!) and then gave me a prescription. And before I knew it, I was out of the office again... Another one would not let me talk, or, when I mentioned my health problems and concerns (because of which I had actually been referred to this specialist) he replied me with the (needless to say, rhetorical) question “if you did have [this disease], what do you think we should do?!” And I had thought he’d be the one to tell me..! 

There are innumerable similar cases, that happened to me or to others. I know doctors are often overworked and stressed, but I also think doctor-patient interaction is often a relation of power that the one has in relation to the other. People here often seem to feel they haven’t been taken seriously and that doctors have belittled them. Yet doctors are considered capable of providing solutions to nearly anything, and as very wise. There’s often this tension reflected in the attitudes in people that doctors are both trustworthy and despicable, at the same time. But I believe there’s also a good deal of real distrust in doctors here, and it’s very common for people to avoid them altogether..  

What is it like in other countries, and have you noticed differences between different countries?

(I hope this would be allowed – I’ve searched for similar threads and there were, to my surprise, none; and I’ve tried to keep it cultural )


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## dec-sev

I once was in the hospital visiting my friend and overheard a conversation between two doctors. One of them was telling his college about a new apparatus the clinic had just received and the first patient treated by this apparatus. "Well, how is he?", asked the second doctor. "He is getting better", was the answer. "Come on man, I care nothing about the patient, I asked you about the apparatus". (In Russian he and it are expressed using the same word).

The case you described is very common here. We have a saying:" If you want to preserve your health, keep away from doctors" The only doctor I go and see to is the dentist.


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## EmilyD

In my experience doctors are part of a severe hierarchy; I mean there is much difference in rank between a pediatrician and a neurologist, and with increasing rank there is *sometimes *decreasing compassion towards the human "subjects" of the practice.

My son was admitted a few months ago to a pediatric hospital for appendicitis.  I found the surgical team to be phenomenally kind, gentle and patient with the child and the parent.

This is a great topic.

Nomi

N.B.  There ARE gentle and thoughtful neurologists and inconsiderate pediatricians...


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## liulia

I once had a truly wonderful experience - the paediatrician to whom I went for my baby's first checkup said to me: "We must work as a team, you and I. I only see the baby for a few minutes at a time, for checkups. You are with her all the time, you know what is normal for this baby, you can recognise the signs of illness and notice symptoms. As her mother, you have special insights. So we need to work together." And he actually meant it! He really listened to me; whenever my baby was unwell, he asked me what I thought was wrong, and why I thought so. We would discuss all the signs, and he always explained how he reached his diagnosis. Unfortunately, I had to leave him behind when I moved.... And I never found another one like that! 

The worst one was in Washington DC; he had a conveyor-belt approach, with 10 minutes per kid; he addressed all  mothers  as "mom" and had no interest whatsoever in anything I tried to say about my child. One minute at the end was allotted to questions ("Any questions, mom? No? Fine, goodbye, see you next month!")   Perhaps, perhaps, he would have been different if my children had been less healthy, but I'm very glad I didn't have to test that theory!


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## Bilma

Doctor nowadays just think about money. The more patientes they can see in an hour the better! They are so good that they can have 5 or 6 appoinments at the time ! As liulia say they do not have interest whatsoever in anything you have to tell them about your health.


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## Lugubert

In Sweden, physicians are respected, and not really overpaid. For example, a surgeon in a county clinic will probably earn some 100 kUSD pa - i.e. before some 50% taxes... They are taught in medical school to listen to their patients and all those things about informed consent and explaining things in plain and clear Swedish - no doctor's Latin, even on prescriptions for the pharmacy - etc.

My experiences from health professionals in other countries have been exceedingly positive.

England: gastic problem, efficient, authoritative but sufficiently explaning chap, and practically free for me the foreigner, except a shilling or so for a couple of pills.

Greece: fiancée almost terminally ill with a "killer bacterium" (beta-hemolyzing streptococci); efficient doc who in fact was a diabetes specialist and who, with his hospital partners, saved her despite orginally poor odds, explaining and caring well beyond the minimum required. (Our insurance fortunately covered the two weeks of hospitalization which included loads of antibiotics.)

India: I developed a bowel problem in the Himalayas. The physician, hailing from from southern India, took all but no more than the necessary tests, and explained all about it. I was especially amused by his stressing that the human albumin I was to receive wasn't manufactured from Indian blood or in India! The total costs for the tests, eight hours of IV infusions of the albumin, antibiotics and assorted other fluids (Ringer solution etc.) in his private hospital were so negligible that I didn't even bother to contact my insurance company. Regarding his standing in society, he was recommended to me as a "nice Christian doctor" and for his "nice bedside manners". I had to look up that latter expression in my dictionary...


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## chimalpahin

Hi

This is a very interesting topic.

MD used to be one of the most respected professions in Poland, but the situation have changed dramatically not a long ago. Unfortunately,  public opinion on their work, created by politicians and medias seeking for cheap sensation, has never been worse…

We’ve got a huge problem with finances in the polish healthcare system, and the actual situation is not making things better… Doctors couldn’t avoid facing our latest phenomenon: scrutiny, so called “lustracja”-“lustration(?)”. Overwhelming prosecutions and fear of corruption (and even intentional inductions, press called them “soul sellers”) accusations discourage them from helping people (f.e. Poland was one of transplantology leaders, but this year we’ve carried through 10 time less operations then during the same period in 2006; it’s sad and terrifying, in my opinion). In addition, they tend to leave our country because frequently they are paid less than workmen or warehousemen. They are welcomed in the UK and Sweden where their job, and really long hard studies, are valorised… In some cases doctors travel to England to work for a single weekend, because there they may earn more then during a whole month in Poland. 

On the other hand, the environment is fossilized and closed to youngsters, elders lay down the law and sweep the board- they create private clinics and cabinets and are really well paid. It’s true that in public hospitals patients are often treated like “subjects” but I understand doctors’ reasons a little bit (even if there should be no explanation for such behaviour). In fact, sometimes (often?) they are arrogant, don’t listen to their patients and don’t explain everything like they should, thus they are no helping to change the overall opinion but they should be respected (and, as for Poland, well remunerated) because we’ve got only one health. People often forget about that…

The Russian proverb mentioned by dec-sev exists in Poland as well, although I haven’t heard it for years (I suppose it’s reappearing it’s now).

As for other countries, I have only one experience to share. It was with the French healthcare and it was rather positive- but than Frenchmen have a very bad opinion on their system. I had some problems in January 2006. The whole consultation was in the bag in one day (3 different doctors, RTG, USG),  I even had the impression they wanted to do more then was actually necessary (better then less  ). All these steps were expensive, but I was told I will be fully reimbursed (I had my polish card and according to French authorities both countries should give me back the amount, France 60%, Poland 40%). After 2 months I received these 60%, the remainder (Polish part) … oh I’ve already forgot about it  

I don’t have health problems and no children neither, so my positive opinion on this profession may change in the future. I hope not…


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## TRG

We have a tendency to put more faith in doctors than we should.  They are, by and large, very intelligent people, but they are capable of making big mistakes.  My favorite example of this involves myself.  I know you will find this hard to believe, but it's true.  I once became quite ill with abdominal pain, so I went to see a gastroenterologist.  He referred me to a *psychiatrist*.  After about 10 days (and one trip to the shrink), my appendix ruptured.  This resulted in about a 2 week stay in the hospital.  So my advice to anyone is to always trust your physician about as far as you can throw him.  If you have the least doubt, get another opinion.  Caveat: if you are really, really sick it can affect your own judgment, so this is not as easy as it sounds.


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## luis masci

In Argentina there are basically two kinds of places to go when you need medical attention: 
1) Public hospitals
2) Private clinics
In the first ones you get a horrible attention and my personal opinion is about I prefer die alone instead to drop into any of them.
In the second ones you get better attention but besides it costs an arm and a leg, you will be down surgery operation although you don’t need it because they are looking up your money rather your health. 
Conclusion: When my time will be over, I prefer die without any attention.


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## Caitlin234

In general, physicians are respected here.  Degrees of competence vary, and personal attributes (compassion, bedside manner, etc.) vary _widely_.  I was fortunate to find an outstanding internist in my city who provides the highest quality of care and is also one of the kindest individuals I've ever known.  He also limits his number of patients so that each receives as much time and attention as he or she needs.  I have health insurance through my employer, and his rates are very reasonable.  He listens carefully when I have concerns about a symptom, and I've learned through experience that I can trust his advice.  If I have any doubts, he doesn't seem to mind a bit if I seek a second opinion.

That said, the above is reflective of the best that the medical profession in the U.S. offers.  In the past I've also seen physicians who were not as thorough, overbooked patients, and/or had bedside manners that left much to be desired.  I think it really depends on the individual physician.

~ Caiti


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## nichec

I grew up in an environment full of doctors and patients, I've seen many different kinds of doctors and patients. I came from a small town where everyone wants their kids to be doctors, even the doctors themselves. Doctors are so respected there that they are almost like God. People tend to think that all doctors are super-smart and wealthy, that they have everything anyone could ever think of. And just like all the heros in the legends, they are not only loved, but also hated in some way by the society. Many people would talk behind their backs about things like how cold and indifferent and money-driven and bad-tempered they are, or how they kill instead of heal people because of the lack of skills.

The fact is every doctor and every patient is a human being. Everyone of them is flawed in their own ways and trying hard to survive. The other fact is human beings as a whole still don't know everything we wish to know about our bodies and lifes. Why is it that two patients suffer from the same illness develope different conditions? How is it that this one died when the other one is still breathing?

A rude patient can be someone who's so sick that he/she doesn't even know he/she is being rude, and a cold doctor can be someone who's under such pressure of dealing with people's lifes everyday that his/her mind chooses to be numb in order to stay sane, or he/she could just have a fight at home last night.

My father, who has been a doctor all his adult life once told me that when he was a student, he was forced to be a doctor, and then he was very proud of being a doctor when he was young, now after more than 20 years of practicing, all he wants is to try to ease his patients' pain when it's just too much to bear.

He can be cold in days that he's not in a good mood like everyone of us, he can be money-driven because he has a whole family to support, he could fail to save a life because he made a bad choice like we all did, just like a patient can be shouting because he/she feels that he/she's living the last minute of his/her life, just like the family of the deceased can be beating the doctors knowing that it's not their fault because they simply can't imagine their lifes without the patient.

But then again, he's just one of millions of doctors in this world, just like every patient is just one of millions of patients in this world. When the door opens, neither him nor the patient knows what's going to be dealt with, and then all the actions and reactions between them would be summed up as the attitude of and towards doctors.


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## pedro0001

@jonquiliser: Here in Germany is terrible how doctors treat people. They don't have time for you (at all, never) and you are treated more like a "client" than a "patient". 

What I really hate from doctors (and this happen with all doctors I've ever seen) is that they give too many appointments, more than what they can handle appropriately and you have to wait ALWAYS, even when you arrive at time the appointment. I hate to wait. They are taking part of my time, and my time is very expensive for me. Why do I have to wait to be attended when we had an appointment?! I hate this.

Another problem here in Germany is that doctors are very apathetic. I don't have even one positive experience with doctors in Germany.


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## Kajjo

German situation: Doctors are usually highly respected and trusted, but many people think they earn too much.

Kajjo


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## Musical Chairs

As a college student, I know that many people want to be doctors (and lawyers) because they make lots of money and are prestigious. If you ask them why, they say something along the lines of "I want to help people" but everyone knows that money is a big attraction, and a lot less people would want to be those if they didn't earn so much money. It's true, but people don't like admitting it because it sounds (and is) shallow. I know so many people who want to be doctors who don't REALLY like what being and becoming a doctor entails. Most of them say they want to be doctors without even knowing what it means to be one. I don't respect that, and neither do many other students at my college.

Here goes my personal opinion. I know doctors are respected, but I don't think it requires you to be brilliant like being a physicist does. It just takes lots of hard work. There hasn't ever been a time I went to the doctor's (pediatrician) and left thinking, "oh my goodness, HOW did they think of that?" They just tell you they can't do anything, take Advil, or give you a prescripton. I'm not really impressed by doctors (the kind everyone is familiar with and goes to when they get the flu for example).


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## Athaulf

Musical Chairs said:


> Here goes my personal opinion. I know doctors are respected, but I don't think it requires you to be brilliant like being a physicist does. It just takes lots of hard work.



You're wrong if you assume that being a physicist (or an expert in any other field) requires any special brilliancy.  It's all a matter of learning and practice, and the willpower necessary to sustain one's interest and concentration. 



> There hasn't ever been a time I went to the doctor's (pediatrician) and left thinking, "oh my goodness, HOW did they think of that?" They just tell you they can't do anything, take Advil, or give you a prescripton. I'm not really impressed by doctors (the kind everyone is familiar with and goes to when they get the flu for example).


This is true for any field of expertise. A good expert for any field of science or technology is distinguished by being able to quickly and correctly spot a huge number of problem patterns that can be solved by relying on knowledge and experience. Thus, a good doctor is simply one who is able to accurately diagnose a large number of conditions and who knows the right treatment for each of them. There is nothing magic or even brilliant about this decision-making process (just like there is nothing magic or particularly brilliant in the daily work of, say, a physicist who relies on a similar ability to spot patterns in formulas and tables of data). 

Therefore, it's rational to trust doctors when it comes to frequently occurring problems that can be handled using standardized procedures. However, the more unusual the problem is, the fewer doctors will possess the necessary knowledge and experience, and in case of very rare or never previously documented conditions, they will all be utterly clueless. Also, certain problems, some of them frequent, are simply not amenable to pre-packaged standardized solutions. In all these cases, it's impossible for doctors to be anything but helpless and clueless. 

Since the doctors' work directly affects people's health and their very lives, people often expect from doctors more than can be reasonably expected given the limitations of human mind and human knowledge in general. This sometimes leads to a lot of bitterness and disappointment. Of course, doctors can also be prone to sloppiness, laziness, muddled and confused thinking, and just plain stupidity -- but all humans are, at least to a certain degree. It's just that in their field, the universal human limitations and weaknesses are more noticeable, because people are more directly hit by their consequences.


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## TRG

Athaulf said:


> You're wrong if you assume that being a physicist (or an expert in any other field) requires any special brilliancy.  It's *all *a matter of learning and practice, and the willpower necessary to sustain one's interest and concentration.



This is a little off the subject, but I think to say that attaining an advanced degree in a highly technical field is all a matter of persistence and hard work is overstating the case just a bit.  I know that effort can overcome some limits on basic ability and aptitude, but I can say from personal experience that there are some places (intellectually) that I would like to go, but my feeble mind will just not take me there.  From what I understand about medical school, I think that determination can play a bigger role there than in some other fields.  Getting a PhD in physics IMO will require more than just wanting it a lot.


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## Musical Chairs

And also from my experience, I can say that you can't just "study a lot" for physics to do very well. You really have to understand what things apply in different conditions and know exactly how to use equations. It's different from biology, where you can just memorize things and use your head a little to do well on exams.

And it's been established that physics and math majors do the best on standardized tests like the MCAT, LSAT, etc. My teachers say their analytical skills help them in many fields, not just in physics.


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## Athaulf

TRG said:


> This is a little off the subject, but I think to say that attaining an advanced degree in a highly technical field is all a matter of persistence and hard work is overstating the case just a bit. I know that effort can overcome some limits on basic ability and aptitude, but I can say from personal experience that there are some places (intellectually) that I would like to go, but my feeble mind will just not take me there.



I've also had such experiences, but it always turns out that the problems are due to inadequate learning materials, rather than my limitations (and I certainly don't consider myself as especially gifted for anything). Each time, I found the area in question to be entirely manageable once I came across some good literature. Any area of human knowledge can be made to seem impossibly hard and complicated if it's not exposed and explained the right way. (And in some areas, I dare say, intentional obscurantism is a frequently employed tactic for increasing one's perceived intellectual standing.)



> From what I understand about medical school, I think that determination can play a bigger role there than in some other fields. Getting a PhD in physics IMO will require more than just wanting it a lot.


Regarding the medical school, that's my impression too. It certainly requires much more effort and dedication than most other areas. In most other fields, one can achieve the highest academic qualifications while approaching things much more casually. This certainly has implications on the usual attitudes and mentality of doctors. However, when it comes to getting a Ph.D. in physics (or any other science), what you write is true only for achieving a really significant major breakthrough. I don't think that any special talent is required for an ordinary run-of-the-mill Ph.D., even at top universities.


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## tvdxer

The medical profession is well-respected in the U.S.  Doctors are seen as those who have "made it" in life, and generally thought of as very wealthy.


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## Sepia

Kajjo said:


> German situation: Doctors are usually highly respected and trusted, but many people think they earn too much.
> 
> Kajjo



All doctors. Not only medical doctors.

However, the threadstarter talked about doctors. Now al lot of posts mention physicians - they are not all doctors. Many people I know would not go to a GP who is not a doctor. I usually say, when I am ill I would not go to a doctor who is not a physician. (Most doctors I know are economists ...)

And it is common belief that all physicians earn a lot of money. In many cases not true - especially not when you count the working hours.


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## Lugubert

On "doctor": I finally took some time trying to confirm my understanding of the Swedish medical titles. If I interpret the information correctly, the only connection between Registered doctor (*Legitimerad läkare*) and Doctor of Medicine (*Medicine doktor*) is, that both require a *Medicine licentiat *degree, which should be a few years more than Masters level. The leg.läk. will have to had extensive practical training, which I don't think is necessary for the med.dr. However, most will probably get their registerd status before going for the doctorate.

So, nobody (or very few) going for medical assistance will bother about med.dr. or not. For my previous post, I only thought of leg.läk.

Regarding the difficulty of getting the med. or any other dr., the requirements should be similar in Sweden. The ministry of education is constantly watching and evaluating. There is of course an appreciable span in thesis quality. Judging from those output by my friends and teachers only, there is every level from one (something about Arabic) that in my opinion shouldn't have passed, to one that is quoted world-wide whenever the subject is discussed (Aspect/Aktionsart in Hindi).

I know details of too few medical or technology theses, but I just suppose that there must be a similar wide scale there. In any case, I think that sheer determination and hard work will seldom lead to a D degree in any subject, unless you for a mentor find an established professor who has the ground-breaking ideas and needs your effort to expand them.

My view on Ph.D. in Arts subjects (languge, history, archaeology, gender studies ...) is that these degrees are just for the person's enjoyment of studies. There are extremely few salaried openings (if any) requiring the doctorate for such people, and not too many where it would matter. Slightly better for Science/Tech, but not dramatically judging from discussions I've seen. I suppose it pays off better in Economy. An M.D. should be an asset if applying for a post as a hospital Chief physician.

On wages, leg.läk. aren't overpaid. They have studied for at least seven years, and will normaly have built up huge debts. A normal salary for a regd. physician in a hospital will be perhaps in the neighbourhood of 100 kUSD/year, which is before taxes at some 50%. Private practitioners have little chance to get stinking rich. If they are into the "system", the fee is fixed, and woe betide him or her who has an unreasonable number of patients per day. If not, they have to compete with the system docs (some 20 USD per consultation at a care centre, including tests). I think that the hospital salary I mentioned is a fraction of what for example many airline pilots get. Perhaps it compares to what US basket or ice hockey players get per month?


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## Sepia

You mention the Ph.D. title - that is not the same as a doctor's degree although they are generally treated as being same level. But I suppose there are even in Sweden still a lot of people around who are doctors in various subjects, right?


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## Lugubert

Sepia said:


> You mention the Ph.D. title - that is not the same as a doctor's degree although they are generally treated as being same level.


Not the same degree as a physician will get after successfully having defended a dissertation om medicine*, but of course as doctor as can be. 


> But I suppose there are even in Sweden still a lot of people around who are doctors in various subjects, right?


Wouldn't say you trip over them every day, but every year, there are 2000-3000 more of them, out of which ca. 800 from the faculty of medicine and 700 from liberal arts/social sciences.

* I'd better be careful with definitions here. An Internet friend of mine is listed in English as "Ph.D., M.D." I know for sure that his Ph.D. refers to a doctoral degree (subject: Chinese; a magnificent job on Mao Zedong's writings) and that he is a psychiatrist, which here by definition means that he is a registered physician with a recognised and proven speciality. I don't know if he's got a medical doctorate-level degree, though.


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## Sepia

I used to trip over Doctors every day at work a few years ago. But what I also meant - even though a lot of people tend to think that Doctor and Ph.D. is the same thing or that Doctor does not exist any more now that we have the Ph.D. degree (a Dane - fresh from university - I used to work with claimed this was the status quo) there are still people who opt for Doctor's degrees, and those who were Doctors before countries like Sweden and Denmark discovered the Ph.D. as an option, are not all dead yet and probably will not for a long time. 

But in a lot of fields the positions people apply for (and get) with Doctor or Ph.D. are pretty much the same.


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## Kajjo

As far as I know the English term _doctor_ means physician unless the context gives rise to treat it as foreign academic title. Usually this is only the case if the phrase states the subject, i.e. _doctor of philisophy_. 

The German term _Doktor_ refers to the academic title "Dr." which can relate to a wide variety of subjects and equals "Ph.D.".

@Jonquiliser: Please clarify whether you originally meant "people with a doctor degree in any field" or "medical doctor".
@Sepia: My comment was solely directed to medical practitioners. If asked about the general attitude towards people with a doctoral degree, I believe that most people respect _Doktor_ quite a lot in Germany.

Kajjo


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## jonquiliser

Kajjo and others: I thought it would have been obvious, given the examples, that I was talking about medical doctors?! Who else will give you a prescription or discuss your health issues as a specialist?

So: I was talking about medics, medical doctors, people with a degree and training in medicine, now practicing their (medical) profession.


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## Kajjo

jonquiliser said:


> Kajjo and others: I thought it would have been obvious, given the examples, that I was talking about medical doctors?! Who else will give you a prescription or discuss your health issues as a specialist?


It was obvious for me, but thanks for clarifying this issue. The word is kind of a false friend for Germans and that might have been the reason for Sepia to fall into the trap.

Again, medical doctors are respected in Germany, they used to belong to the most respected professions, but this image is somewhat damaged. Most people nowadays think doctors earn to much and prefer patients paying the bills privately rather than by public health insurance. Personally, I believe this might be true for some, but the majority of doctors does a good job. At least our health system is still on of the best worldwide, even if becoming more and more difficult to afford for the nation as a whole.

Kajjo


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## jonquiliser

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just got a little worked up about that. I suppose it's easy enough to misunderstand things.

Thanks everyone for your answers


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## Lugubert

Sepia said:


> those who were Doctors before countries like Sweden and Denmark discovered the Ph.D. as an option


Doctor as the highest level of European university learning appeared in the 15th century. I have no reason to believe that we were slow in learning its existence. Admittedly, our faculties of Arts introduced it only in 1864, but they sure knew about it from its beginnings. You probably mean something else, but I can't guess what. Sorry!


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## JamesM

I've noticed a great change in my lifetime, at least in my personal experience. When I was younger, doctors were the ultimate authority. To question a doctor was a very strange thing to do, unless you asked for a second opinion on a serious illness, which was often encouraged by the doctor.   I grew up in a fairly small town and the doctors were at the top of the social and financial ladder in our town.  The "houses on the hill" were mostly owned by doctors. 

Recently, doctors have actually asked me what medication I thought would be good for me. (!!!) I was speechless the first time this happened, but I've now become accustomed to it happening from time to time. I still cannot imagine why I, a man on the street, would have any better idea than a doctor which medicine to prescribe.


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## jonquiliser

JamesM said:


> Recently, doctors have actually asked me what medication I thought would be good for me. (!!!) I was speechless the first time this happened, but I've now become accustomed to it happening from time to time. I still cannot imagine why I, a man on the street, would have any better idea than a doctor which medicine to prescribe.



Perhaps because other doctors have recommended you something before, because you have read up on your condition/illness and what standard/non-standard treatments there are, because you have had experience (good or bad) already with some medications, thus might have an idea of what could/would not work for you...

Myself, I was shocked when I realised doctors just check up in reference manuals the medications and dosages for this or that ailment. I had always been so impressed with their ability to come up with medications to give you, and knowing what amount you'd need.. And well, they don't necessarily do. It would in fact be nearly impossible for anyone to. But nonetheless... they're not geniuses, and you're the one to know your body best. That's why the relation between doctor and patient should be one of cooperation, I'd say.


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## nichec

JamesM said:


> I've noticed a great change in my lifetime, at least in my personal experience. When I was younger, doctors were the ultimate authority. To question a doctor was a very strange thing to do, unless you asked for a second opinion on a serious illness, which was often encouraged by the doctor. I grew up in a fairly small town and the doctors were at the top of the social and financial ladder in our town. The "houses on the hill" were mostly owned by doctors.
> 
> Recently, doctors have actually asked me what medication I thought would be good for me. (!!!) I was speechless the first time this happened, but I've now become accustomed to it happening from time to time. I still cannot imagine why I, a man on the street, would have any better idea than a doctor which medicine to prescribe.


 
I believe that's because no one knows better than you what kind of side effects can occure to you when you take medicine containing certain things (that's where their training comes in handy, you may not know which medicine contains what, but they do)

Also, most of the doctors these days believe in the strong influence of psychological factors. By letting the patients participate the course of practicing and consciously choose the medicine they take, doctors are expecting the patients to have confidence in the treatment and follow it patiently, hence recover quickly.


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## lablady

jonquiliser said:


> ...Myself, I was shocked when I realised doctors just check up in reference manuals the medications and dosages for this or that ailment. I had always been so impressed with their ability to come up with medications to give you, and knowing what amount you'd need.. And well, they don't necessarily do.


I receive phone requests for advice on a daily basis. 

I too, was surprised when the first physician asked lowly, little me to give recommendations for which tests to order or which antibiotics to use. Medicine is such a broad field that it is difficult for a doctor to be expected to have it all filed away in his brain for ready retrieval. My field is more focused so it allows me to be a resource for him.

I agree that doctors as a whole were once looked upon with awe. I think that many people still view them that way. Now that I work with physicians on a regular basis I have learned that, like other occupations, there are variations. There are those who have earned our admiration thus are highly respected, and there are those who have not. Some doctors appear to have gone to medical school merely for the money and/or prestige. Others appear to truly love the field and the good work they do. That is one reason the patient-doctor relationship needs to be of cooperation from both sides.


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## JamesM

nichec said:


> I believe that's because no one knows better than you what kind of side effects can occure to you when you take medicine containing certain things (that's where their training comes in handy, you may not know which medicine contains what, but they do)


 
I can understand asking if I have had any reactions to particular drugs, but if I know more names of medicine than my doctor, we're both in trouble, in my opinion.  

As Lablady said, doctors may not be up on everything. I've had some very enlightening conversations with pharmacists over the years who seem to know more details and possible interactions than doctors.

However, if I'm paying the doctor $130 for what usually works out to roughly six minutes of his/her time, I think it's adding insult to injury to ask me to come up with the prescription on top of it. 



> Also, most of the doctors these days believe in the strong influence of psychological factors. By letting the patients participate the course of practicing and consciously choose the medicine they take, doctors are expecting the patients to have confidence in the treatment and follow it patiently, hence recover quickly.


 
The only medicines I will know are either the ones that are taken by people I know, or the ones advertised on TV (which, until recently, was banned in the U.S. and I wish it still were). Neither one seems to me to be a reliable source for my personal needs.


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## nichec

JamesM said:


> I can understand asking if I have had any reactions to particular drugs, but if I know more names of medicine than my doctor, we're both in trouble, in my opinion.
> 
> As Lablady said, doctors may not be up on everything. I've had some very enlightening conversations with pharmacists over the years who seem to know more details and possible interactions than doctors.
> 
> However, if I'm paying the doctor $130 for what usually works out to roughly six minutes of his/her time, I think it's adding insult to injury to ask me to come up with the prescription on top of it.
> 
> 
> 
> The only medicines I will know are either the ones that are taken by people I know, or the ones advertised on TV (which, until recently, was banned in the U.S. and I wish it still were). Neither one seems to me to be a reliable source for my personal needs.


 
agreed, and point taken.
It's nice to know that
And I do share your feelings.


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## EmilyD

In the US, there have been different *attitudes towards male and female* *doctors*. There are some folks (both men and women) who express greater confidence in a male MD than in a female one.

Much research has been done on that.  I believe the demographics around the gender of physicians is now beginning to tilt towards a prevalence of women MD's.  For many years, women were discouraged from entering medicine in the same way we were (and still are) discouraged from entering any scientific field.

Also, the *problems of racism* in the US, of course, impact the attitudes towards Black doctors (and all doctors of color, regardless of nationality or ethnicity).  I worked at a health center in northern Rhode Island (Woonsocket, which borders Massachusetts) about 15 years ago.  Some patients refused to be treated by a doctor(an internist) from Ghana.  Perhaps this has changed significantly.

I will try to post some links later...

Nomi


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## jonquiliser

EmilyD said:


> In the US, there have been different *attitudes towards male and female* *doctors*. There are some folks (both men and women) who express greater confidence in a male MD than in a female one.
> 
> Much research has been done on that.  I believe the demographics around the gender of physicians is now beginning to tilt towards a prevalence of women MD's.  For many years, women were discouraged from entering medicine in the same way we were (and still are) discouraged from entering any scientific field.
> 
> Also, the *problems of racism* in the US, of course, impact the attitudes towards Black doctors (and all doctors of color, regardless of nationality or ethnicity).  I worked at a health center in northern Rhode Island (Woonsocket, which borders Massachusetts) about 15 years ago.  Some patients refused to be treated by a doctor(an internist) from Ghana.  Perhaps this has changed significantly.



Very interesting. I would say the situation is pretty similar over here, regarding both gender and race issues. In relation to this, it is also interesting to note that both status and pay tend to drop when women enter into these areas.


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## nichec

jonquiliser said:


> Very interesting. I would say the situation is pretty similar over here, regarding both gender and race issues. In relation to this, it is also interesting to note that both status and pay tend to drop when women enter into these areas.


 
I hope this is not off-topic.
My best male friend (who's of course a doctor) once told me something that's quite shocking to me, he said that he would never have any romantic feelings towards any female doctor. When I asked him why, he replied: To me, they are just like men. And when we talked about how the female doctors are treated in the big hospital where he works, he told me despite of the fact that he works in ER (Emergency Room) where all the patients are supposed to be in serious danger, there are still some patients who refuse to be treated by female doctors I can't help but feel bad for all those hard-working female doctors, they received the same education and work the same hours just to be treated as "men" by the male doctors they work with and as "women'" by the patients


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