# Hebrew-English literal translations



## JaiHare

*Moved from another thread.*



origumi said:


> Any other translation would contain translator interpretation, so your version seems the best.



 I'm glad there was a thumb down smiley. I don't agree with this at all.


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## arielipi

פרט נמק הסבר


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## airelibre

Yes you should give an explanation as to why you disagree with the comment.


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## JaiHare

airelibre said:


> Yes you should give an explanation as to why you disagree with the comment.



I disagree with the idea that glossing words from Hebrew to English is better than translating it into good English.


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## origumi

"Glossed" Hebrew can be translated to equivalent English. If Lieder was smart enough to describe a situation in enigmatic words, why would the translator try to solve the riddle? That may flatten the meaning to a point that the poetic notion is lost.


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## JaiHare

origumi said:


> "Glossed" Hebrew can be translated to equivalent English. If Lieder was smart enough to describe a situation in enigmatic words, why would the translator try to solve the riddle? That may flatten the meaning to a point that the poetic notion is lost.



Making a meaningful translation does not flatten anything. Providing a gloss doesn't bring anything meaningful to the English reader.


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## OsehAlyah

This is probably one of those debates that cannot have a clear winner.

On the one hand if you inject your own interpretation, you are consciously or unconsciously leading the others to see what you see. What you see, however is usually based on your life experience, your personality and most importantly on what you Want to see.  Which may or may not be in concert with what the author originally intended.

On the other hand sometimes a direct translation may omit a double meaning or an infliction (positive or negative), or something else, that a word or a phrase might carry, that speakers with a weak grasp of the language may not be aware of unless the more advanced speakers bring it to light.

So in the end you may both be correct is some way or another, and perhaps providing both types of translations would be the ultimate.
Just my $.2 
(Ooooops sorry Just my 2 Agorot What was I thinking)

Purim Sameah everyone and Shabbat Shalom


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## JaiHare

$.2 = $.20 = 20¢ 

That's true, but translating (for example) על הפנים into English as "on the face" would have no meaning at all.

אתם לא רוצים לשמוע אותי שר. באמת, אני שר על הפנים!
If I tell someone that I sing "on the face" in English or that the movie I saw last night was "waste of time" (חבל"ז), I'm not going to be communicating. Stilted glosses do not help communicate meaning.

Just my ₪2 worth, not that my opinion is worth more than yours – just that we have a symbol for shekels.


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## OsehAlyah

JaiHare said:


> $.2 = $.20 = 20¢


Doh! I should have gone to bed on time. 



JaiHare said:


> That's true, but translating (for example) על הפנים into English as "on the face" would have no meaning at all.
> 
> אתם לא רוצים לשמוע אותי שר. באמת, אני שר על הפנים!
> If I tell someone that I sing "on the face" in English or that the movie I saw last night was "waste of time" (חבל"ז), I'm not going to be communicating. Stilted glosses do not help communicate meaning.


We are in total agreement here. This was just the point I was trying to make in the second part of my post. BTW you now have to explain what על הפנים means.


JaiHare said:


> Just my ₪2 worth, not that my opinion is worth more than yours – just that we have a symbol for shekels.


Ahhhh but I priced my opinion in Agorot   .....


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

> BTW you now have to explain what על הפנים means.



It means _bad_, _terrible _etc.

PS I think there is a difference between idioms like על הפנים(that shouldn't be translated literally) and ambiguous phrases that are subject to interpretation. The latter can be translated literally and still keep the same ambiguity.


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## arielipi

not too often though carrot, but i agree on the idioms and add riddles and such


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## JaiHare

arielipi said:


> not too often though carrot, but i agree on the idioms and add riddles and such



I’ll see you that and raise you.... 

It’s better to translate it into something intelligible to the reader and then include a remark about the _double entendre_ that exists in the original in the case of idioms – such as: “Literally, the Hebrew expression _al ha-panim_ means ‘on the face,’ but it’s used to mean that something is ‘awful’ or ‘terrible.’” This way, you preserve the literal meaning of the original language and also translate it into something meaningful for those who do not speak that language and do not understand its idioms. You know what I mean?


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