# Happy Birthday! [accusative of exclamation?]



## belvidere

I didn't see where this has been discussed before on the forum.  I wondered about "happy birthday" and found this:

Felicem diem natalem! (meaning)

Happy birthday!

Accusative of exclamation, per

http://www.skidmore.edu/classics/courses/1999spring/cl302/cl302gra/cl302nou.html

I had not heard of that usage before.  Is the expression above correct?


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## Cagey

An earlier thread contains a wide-ranging discussion of this: Happy birthday
It was begun before there was a dedicated Latin forum, and is less focused than we now require threads to be. 

I am not merging the threads because I understand this question to be in part about the grammatical construction to be used.  I hope that some who respond will address the grammatical question.


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## belvidere

Yes, what about the accusative of exclamation?  How may one encounter it in Latin reading?


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## Stoicorum_simia

belvidere said:


> Yes, what about the accusative of exclamation?  How may one encounter it in Latin reading?


The accusative of exclamation refers to a (perceived) fact, not a wish: _me miserum! = _'poor me', etc. So if you used that, you would be saying 'what a happy birthday you are having!' To *wish* someone happiness on any occasion you can say just _feliciter_, which is very idiomatic. If  you want to be more precise, you could say _sit tibi felix dies natalis_.


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## Imber Ranae

Stoicorum_simia said:


> The accusative of exclamation refers to a (perceived) fact, not a wish: _me miserum! = _'poor me', etc. So if you used that, you would be saying 'what a happy birthday you are having!'



It could be interpreted as an instance of ellipsis, i.e. _felicem natalem habere te exopto_.



			
				Stoicorum_simia said:
			
		

> To *wish* someone happiness on any occasion you can say just _feliciter_, which is very idiomatic. If  you want to be more precise, you could say _sit tibi felix dies natalis_.



Or maybe just something like [_utinam_]_ feliciter tibi sit, Simia, natali die tuo._


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## Stoicorum_simia

Imber Ranae said:


> It could be interpreted as an instance of ellipsis, i.e. _felicem natalem habere te exopto_.



You may be right - do you have some examples?




Imber Ranae said:


> Or maybe just something like [_utinam_]_ feliciter tibi sit, Simia, natali die tuo._



Gratias tibi ago!


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## CapnPrep

Stoicorum_simia said:


> Imber Ranae said:
> 
> 
> 
> It could be interpreted as an instance of ellipsis, i.e. _felicem natalem habere te exopto_.
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right - do you have some examples?
Click to expand...

There are examples in the section of A&G (397d) linked to from the website given in belvidere's first message:

salutem [dicit]
me dius fidius [adiuvet]


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## Stoicorum_simia

CapnPrep said:


> There are examples in the section of A&G (397d) linked to from the website given in belvidere's first message:
> 
> salutem [dicit]
> me dius fidius [adiuvet]



But those are set phrases easily understood because of their common use. I'm not clear that _felicem diem natalem_ would fall into that category.


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