# Hebrew Numerals (conventions for reordering numbers that spell certain words)



## TamidTalmid

So I’m trying to use Hebrew more and more but I always neglected to use Hebrew numerals. I’m currently working on a project based on Psalm 119 which has 176 verses. I’ve been reading on the conventions for Hebrew numerals and I’ve gotten some contradictory information. Additionally, I learned some words with certain negative meanings are sometimes reordered and that this is fairly standard practice. So, I really have two questions, one pertaining to general use and the other pertaining to the Hebrew numerals א-קעו/א'-קע"ו.

1. When numbers are isolated, should gershayim be used or not? Some sources say they should only be used when referring to a number of _something _(i.e., ב"ב אותיות), but if I’m just meaning to write 22 by itself, I should write ‘בב’ and that’s it. Other sources say I should always use a geresh after a number using a single character and always use gershayim when a number uses two or more digits. Which is correct?

My second question is probably asking too much, but the only conventions regarding reordering numerals I’m familiar with are:

•18 being written as חי instead of יח
•15 being written as טו out of respect for the name
•16 being written as טז for the same reason above

Out of 1-176, which numerals are commonly reordered? I’ve attached an image showing each number so anything that looks incorrect might pop out more easily. I’m sorry to trouble you to over such tedious questions.

Thank you for reading.


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## TamidTalmid

Also, are there any extremely common numbers beyond 176 I should know are commonly reordered? I’m just trying to use Hebrew more actively and since this is an area I’ve really neglected, I would appreciate any guidance.


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## Abaye

Writing numbers in Hebrew letters is not really part of the Hebrew language, just a convention.
The convension of geresh for a single letter and gershayim before the last letter if there's more than one, is the most popular convention I think. Like כ"ב (not ב"ב) for 22.
If you see ח"י sometimes instead of the conventional י"ח - I guess it's because the word חי, means alive, is believed to bring luck, especially for ill people.
ט"ו and ט"ז are written instead of the expected י"ה and י"ו because each of the latter two may be regarded as reference to God's name, and we carefully avoid of doing it.
I don't think there are other peculiarities up to 176.
BTW, you can try Psalms קי"ז 117 instead of קי"ט 119, it's a little easier  .

You may want to read Hebrew numerals - Wikipedia but this Wiki entry doesn't look to me very useful.


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## Drink

Other than 15 and 16, the numbers that I see reordered are generally much higher than 176. Like for example the number 275 is often written as ער"ה instead of רע"ה.

You generally only see such numbers as page numbers or section numbers in long volumes. Generally in religious works, as other works would use Western Arabic numerals instead.


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## TamidTalmid

My mistake, בב was a typo, I completely intended כב/כ"ב.

Ok then, so the typical convention is to just always use a geresh or gershayim when writing out numbers. I suppose that makes sense to always distinguish that something is a numeral that way so as to avoid any confusion.

I’ve already checked that wiki article out in addition to a number of others. Like I said, I was getting some contradictory information so I thought it best to ask some Hebrew speakers directly.

Haha and yes, I appreciate the tip to use the 2 verse Psalm 117 to try and save me time and effort. Unfortunately, the project I’m working on has brought me to the lengthiest Psalm we have.

Thank you for your answer, I really appreciate it.


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## Drink

It's not that a geresh/gershayim are always used. They are always used in running text. But in standalone numbers that are not part of a sentence, they may be omitted.


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## TamidTalmid

Ok so just so I’m clear, if one for instance is ONLY writing a list of numbers using Hebrew letters for numerals (which is what I’ll be doing), would it be more typical to just write כב כג כד since the only thing being written are referencing numbers?

I know this isn’t a huge deal because most of the time Arabic numerals are used, but there are biblical/literary reasons for their use as well as things like dates and such, so I’m just trying to train myself to recognize them instead of embarrassingly having to count in my head. Consequently, I want to be sure of which conventions are typical and when they should be applied.

From what I’ve read and from what I’ve gathered here, is it correct to assume if I’m only writing out a list of numbers, I should omit the geresh gershayim but otherwise include them? For example, if I’m asked a question orally and am told to just write down an answer and the question is “?כמה אותיות יש באלפבית העברי” I should write “כב”, but if I were to write out that statement along with the number, e.g. ״יש כ"ב אותיות באלפבית העברי״, that should be the expected way to write it. (Btw if I messed up grammatically there, could someone correct my errors for me?)

I just want to be crystal clear on this because it’s something I’ve ignored in 20 something years of relatively passive study of Hebrew and I don’t want to make simple mistakes in the future.

My calendar is Gregorian/Hebrew and in any given date it just has “Tuesday, 1” and at the bottom “7 Cheshvan 'ז”, but I guess even though the word is transliterated to English, that still counts as a letter and a number being joined.

Unless anyone suggests otherwise after this, I’ll assume that my list of only numbers shouldn’t include the geresh/gershayim and my understanding of how and when to use them is correct.

Thank you


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## Drink

In a standalone list, it's your choice. Sometimes they are with geresh/gershayim and sometimes they are not.

It's also worth noting that in older manuscripts and in gravestones it is common to find an alternative marking, for both abbreviations and numbers: instead of the geresh/gershayim, there is a dot above each letter.

You can also found creative ways of writing years, common in old Hebrew published books, where a biblical verse or other significant phrase is written, and certain letters from it are either enlarged or have a dot above them (while the other letters are written normally). If you take all the specially marked letters and add them together, you get the year the book was published.


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## TamidTalmid

I forgot about the dots and had no idea about specially marked letters. Thanks for including that, that’s really interesting to me.

Thanks


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