# How does one go about tipping the waiter/waitress in Mexico?



## KateNicole

In the United States, most waiters only make $2.33/hr (not even half of minimum wage) which is why it is very important to leave 15-20% for good service. (Not just a dollar or whatever you feel like leaving.)

When I lived in Mexico and went out to dinner at sit-down restaurants, I had local friends that would leave about 10 pesos whether the bill was 100 pesos or 900 pesos, I also had friends that would leave absolutely nothing--even if the service was perfectly fine, and then I had friends that seemed to leave about 10%. Based on my own experience, it appeared to me that there was no social norm, even among people of a relatively similar socio-economic background, when it comes to leaving a tip. 

I'd really like to know if waiters in Mexico are paid a normal wage (which would mean any sort of tip is just a "bonus") or if the waiters depend on a certain percentage per table in order to make ends meet. 


Does anyone know (because they have worked in the restaurant industry or know someone who does) what is the proper way to calculate a tip in a Mexican restaurant?  I don't mean to sound snotty, but please only reply if your opinion is based on knowledge of the restaurant industry, not just your own tipping habits.

I've worked as a waitress for five years at $2.33/hr with no pay raise, so this issue is a little sensitive to me. I hope I'm not coming across as paranoid.


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## Fernando

I do not know Mexico's uses, but in Spain (should I say Europe?) we assume the waiter has been paid by the employer. It is usual to leave a small amount (let us say 1 euro or so) or a small percentage of the bill (5%?) IF the service is VERY good. You can leave nothing and the waiter is not entitled to llok you with angry face.

When travelling to Latin/Hispanic America (Chile, Argentina, Venezuela...) I use to leave about 10% of the bill and I think it is the general norm.

Needless to say, I prefer the "European" (Spanish?) norm: only outsatanding service deserves the tip (at least a significant tip). If the waiter is not happy with the wage, speak with your employer. 

Of course if the norm differs rules, change for everyone. 2 1/3 an hour is a real low wage (even for Spanish standards, unluckily not for Hisp. America standards) and I assume the waiter expects the tip. Should I suggest the restaurant to raise the price a 15% or let it clear the expected tip in the price chart.


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## QUIJOTE

I don't know in Mexico but for me is 10% to 15% regardless of where I am, if the service is good, I consider this a must to the waiters/waitresses, is just simple gesture that I appreciated the treatment.


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## Cracker Jack

Hi Andy. Allow me to impart my humble 2 cent worth of an opinion. Here in Europe, some restaurants may opt to leave the tip to the waiter. The "profit-oriented waiter who is quick-witted acts swiftly and gets the tip before anyone else sees.  In Northern Spain and in some parts of Europe, the tips are being pooled and distributed evenly.  This is profit sharing.

This practice is also an injustice to the efficient one who, by force of norm is left with no choice but to share it with the others.  While the rest of the crew lazes around, he too, gets a portion of everything.  So if you are really that conscientious, give it directly to whom it is intended stealthily, i.e. without calling the attention of the others.

With this, the favored one really gets what he deserve.  I see that you have so much to spare.  And that is very virtuous of you.


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## everything

I found this on the net:

*Mexico* 

 When tipping in Mexico, remember that the minimum wage is the equivalent of $3 a day and that the vast majority of workers in the tourist industry live barely above the poverty line. 

 However, there are Mexicans who think in dollars and know, for example, that in the United States porters are tipped about $2 a bag; many of them expect the peso equivalent from foreigners and may complain if they feel they deserve more -- you and your conscience must decide. Here are some guidelines: 

 Porters and bellboys at airports and at moderate and inexpensive hotels: $1 per bag. 				

 Porters at expensive hotels: $2 per person. 				

 Maids: $1 per night (all hotels). 				

 Waiters: 10%-15% of the bill, depending on service (make sure a 10%-15% service charge hasn't already been added to the bill, although this practice is more common in resorts). 

 Taxi drivers: Tipping is necessary only if the driver helps with your bags -- 5 pesos to 10 pesos should be sufficient, depending on the extent of the help. 

 Tour guides and drivers: at least $1 per half day, minimum. 				

 Gas-station attendants: 3 pesos to 5 pesos; if they check the oil, tires, etc., tip more. 				

 Parking attendants and theater ushers: 5 pesos to 10 pesos. Some restaurants and theaters charge for valet-parking service; it's still customary to tip the attendant at least 10 pesos.


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## VenusEnvy

Ahhh, so is this why Europeans in the US are such bad tippers?....


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## JazzByChas

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Ahhh, so is this why Europeans in the US are bad tippers?....


 
ROTFLMAO...that was an interesting dig, VenusEnvy....


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## Fernando

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Ahhh, so is this why Europeans in the US are such bad tippers?....



Yes, as you have guessed, it is because we never get very good service, so we do not feel obligued to tip.


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## KateNicole

Fernando said:
			
		

> Needless to say, I prefer the "European" (Spanish?) norm: only outsatanding service deserves the tip (at least a significant tip). If the waiter is not happy with the wage, speak with your employer.


 
Ahhh, if only it were that simple.  That would be like asking my employer to rewrite the American culture.  There are MILLIONS of waiters that only make $2.33 an hour (I can only think of two states in America where they are paid min. wage.)  If I told my employer to change my wage, he'd tell me to find a new job.  

The culture of tipping is just completely different in the US.  Here, the menu prices do not reflect all of the labor costs, so technically, you aren't "ripping yourself off" by leaving the waiter 15-20%.  For whatever reason, we just leave that to the discretion of the diner, but count on him/her to be not stingy if the service was good.  If we were to go to the "European method" of just printing "service included" on the menu, you wouldn't have to tip, but the price of your favorite entree would be increased about 18% automatically.  In my opinion, no one has it better in Europe, because the customer is, in essence, "tipping" the waiter every single time, regardless of the quality (or lack there of) of the service.  In America, the prices of the food are CHEAPER because they reflect the extremely LOW wage the waitstaff is paid, which is why tipping is essential.  Just my two cents.


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## Lancel0t

KateNicole said:
			
		

> In my opinion, no one has it better in Europe, because the customer is, in essence, "tipping" the waiter every single time, regardless of the quality (or lack there of) of the service. In America, the prices of the food are CHEAPER because they reflect the extremely LOW wage the waitstaff is paid, which is why tipping is essential. Just my two cents.


 
If you think tipping is essential in a First World Country, how much more in our country which belong to the Third World Country.


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## KateNicole

I agree.  I almost always try to leave a VERY substantial tip when I travel to Mexico (simply because my economic situation allows me to do so without thinking twice, and I know that leaving even an extra 10 dollars on top of the regular tip can make a huge difference in someone's day.)  I posed the original question though because when I would go out to eat with friends and WANT to leave 20% (because I was travelling to Mexico on my American salary; doing so wouldn't bankrupt me) my friends would look horrified and insist "¡Estás dejando demás!!!" as if trying to smile upon someone who does the same job I do was a bad thing.

I definitely think that someone who lives in the "first world" should leave above average tips when visiting a country where the people earn significantly less money.  That way the workers, as opposed to the giant hotel coporations and things of that nature, can profit a little bit too.


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## astronauta

As a norm, Mexicans tip 10%. 

I think it would be unbelievable poor manners to leave less.

Many people just adjust the bills, for example, if ther bill is $665, they leave $700. I don't think it's okay, specially if you CAN leave more.

I have left 15-20% if the service is exceptionally good, which most of times is.
A lot of servers (unlike US & Canada) do this for a living AND as profession (not just to get through college), they take pride in their job and is a lifetime career;  you will see many seasoned people waiting, a lot are dedicated to good service and are extremely professional and go to extremes to serve you. For example, if you want a pack of cigarrettes or film for your camera they will go and get it.

I will recommend 10% if service is ok, 15% if is great and 20% if you ask for additional things.

Cheers,

AV


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## VenusEnvy

astronauta vegetariana said:
			
		

> Many people just adjust the bills, for example, if ther bill is $665, they leave $700. I don't think it's okay, specially if you CAN leave more.


Where do you eat where the bill would be $665???


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## Fernando

Point taken, KateNicole. As I said before, if the wage and price-setting norm is different, the tipping norm should be different also.

I assume in Europe the restaurant owner is 'including' the waiter wage in the bill. Although I am not familiar with restaurant's world, I am sure that a waiter gets more than 2 euros an hour (in Madrid, at least), but he will not get more than, say, 20 euros a day in tipping.


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## astronauta

Venus, $665 pesos are about $62 US dollars roughly.


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## KateNicole

Venus, she means PESOS.  


Also, I always get EXCELLENT service at Mexican sit-down restaurants and the Mexican people in general always receive me so warmly.  I love how when I go to Mexico and I meet new people they are so quick to reccommend a great restaurant or a native dish for me to dry, as well as interesting cultural spots.  Also, when I ask someone for directions on the street in Mexico (especially in San Miguel de Allende where I have encountered the kindest of people) many of them actually walk me all the way to my final destination or stop and try to draw a map!  They do this because they are proud of their country and seem to be genuinely interested in foreign people having a good stay.

I wish we could be like this in America.  Where I live (Wisconsin) I see so many foreigners get treated like a total nuissance.  That's why when foreign people walk into the restaurant where I work (and even though they usually only leave me a 10% tip) I try to take their table in an instant and be extra friendly and accommodating so they can at least have ONE positive run-in with a native Wisconsinite.


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## ILT

Hi KateNicole:

I understand your point, but I don't understand how these employers can go by infringing the law by paying less than minimum wage.

In México they are paid at least minimum wage, but it is not much, they still depend on tips to make ends meet.

The average here is 10%, but it totally depends on the service.  If the service was average, one would tip 5 - 10%, if the service was bad, one would not even leave a tip, and if the service was excelent, one would tip 15%.  The idea is that they are performing a job for which they are already being paid and their obligation, as with any worker, is to do a good job.

I find that in the US it is different, and what I do when I get really bad service is leave a note on the cashier slip saying "bad service - no tip", because the first time I did not leave a tip I was told that that was reason they didn't like Mexicans, because we would not tip our waiters.  So I make sure that they know that the tip is not a given, it has to be earned by providing me with good service.


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## VenusEnvy

I love translating said:
			
		

> I understand your point, but I don't understand how these employers can go by infringing the law by paying less than minimum wage.


I've often wondered this myself! In the US, the customers pay the majority of our wages.

But, we do get taxed on our tips. At the end of the shift, we have to report to the restaurant the tips that we made that shift. We are supposed to claim 100% of the tips that we make, but many servers claim much less.

Look at this, start on message #46. The rest of this thread is also very interesting. (I think this is from a law/legal forum???)


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## KateNicole

Fernando,
At any rate, I'd like to say that I prefer the "European method".  I think it has a positive outcome for both the waiter and the diner.  The fact that a restaurant pays  a liveable wage that is not dependent on tips holds the waiter to a higher standard of accountability and professionalism.  In my opinion, this means overall better service for the customer, as well as less discriminatio based on outward appearance, but it also protects the waiters from diners that woudn't understand the norm for tipping (if there were one.)

I think American waiters DO work extremely hard and will stop at nothing to please the customer in hopes of a good tip, but I think our work ethic and job satisfaction would change for the better if we were just paid a wage that reflected that necessary skill level to do our job.  I also think it would keep abusive customers at bay that make unreasonable demands to the waitstaff, knowing they will oblige because they depend on the tip.


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## mzsweeett

KateNicole said:
			
		

> Ahhh, if only it were that simple. That would be like asking my employer to rewrite the American culture. There are MILLIONS of waiters that only make $2.33 an hour (I can only think of two states in America where they are paid min. wage.) If I told my employer to change my wage, he'd tell me to find a new job. ........................


Yes I agree with you completely. I have worked in diners and in private upscale country clubs. I worked an 8-10 hour shift @ *$1.88 per hour + cash tips* at the diners  vs.  5-7hrs at the country clubs to make *$2.83 per hour + 17% tip* added into the bill. In the country club setting I worked less hours but made more gross money... but the catch was that the club kept 2.5% off the top *AND *I had to give a total of 10% of my gross tips to the buss staff to split each shift I worked.....so if my night was slow I made no money at all unless I was tipped (cash extra on the side). Lucky for me the members liked me and my service a lot and always seemed to tip well. Otherwise I would've not done much better than the diner. That club recently changed their policy to flat rate the pay to $10.00 per hour with *NO* gratuities at all.... they upped their prices to account for it.... and the members were told *NOT* to tip extra (but some still did )!! This way only works to the waitstaff's benefit if a night is slow moving... if it is a busy night then they would lose out on money. 
So it goes to show that no matter what you should always give a 20% tip..... because the waitstaff always seems to get the short end of the stick!!!
So be a friend and tip well!!  I know I do when I go out unless the service is absolutely horrible.

Sweet T.


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## ILT

astronauta vegetariana said:
			
		

> That is an excellent point ILT.



Thanks, and what you mention is also true, waiters here take it as a career, not just as a temporary job to help with school expenses.  It is usual to find waiters above 40, who take a pride in being waiters, maybe that makes a difference.  Also, the industry here is different, and it is likely to find the same waiter year in and year out in the same restaurant.

My mom and her friends used to go on Friday afternoon to a certain restaurant for coffee and cake, and there was a guy who started working there as assisstant to the waiters, then became a waiter, then he was in charge of supervising waiters, I mean, this ladies went to that restaurant for over five years, and this person was there all this time in different positions, for most waiters it is a career.

That is a problem we find in México now with franchise restaurants is that they hire students, or if they hire someone more experienced, they do not acknowledge this part of the culture and the customer is the one that looses.


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## KateNicole

I love translating,
For whatever reason, the law ALLOWS restaurants to pay the waitstaff less than minimum wage; they aren't violating it by doing so.  There is no need to tip for lousy service, but if you are in the US and the service you receive is polite and efficient, I STRONGLY reccommend leaving 15-20%, because anything less is, in effect, punishing the waiter.  Also, at least when in America, don't be afraid to notify your waiter mid-dinner if something is bothering you.  If you have a problem with the speed, the temperature, the volume of the music--whatever, let your waiter know.  Most likely, he will be glad to assist.   

Also, the low wage is reflected in the lower menu price.  When I went to Germany, I found a lot of menu items to be considerably more expensive than in the US, but the bill always read "service" included, so it seemed to even out in the end.  Sure, I didn't find myself leaving 5-10 dollars for a tip after every meal, but I was ordering things that would have cost almost a third less in my homeland.  Bottom line for me:  Eating at a German restaurant where leaving a tip was not necessary cost about the same as easting in a comparable American restaurant after the necessary 12 dollar tip for the good service we recieved.  

For whatever reason, we just give the customer the option of making up the difference in price with the tip.  

I know it might seem outrageous if you are accustomed to having the waiters waged automatically woven into the menu prices or if a Euro here and a Euro there is an acceptable tip where you're from.  Here it's just very, very different.


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## VenusEnvy

I love translating said:
			
		

> Thanks, and what you mention is also true, waiters here take it as a career, not just as a temporary job to help with school expenses.  It is usual to find waiters above 40, who take a pride in being waiters, maybe that makes a difference.  Also, the industry here is different, and it is likely to find the same waiter year in and year out in the same restaurant.


The last restaurant I worked at was a very expensive place. And, the wait staff there were (unlike me) serious about their jobs there.   
And, yes, it's true, you can make a good living if you take serving seriously. At this particular restaurant, the head waiter was working about a little more than 40 hours/week, and pulling in $80,000/year. Not too bad, eh?


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## astronauta

Excellent point ILT.

I have been a waitress and can tell you that a tip is a good incentive for good service (sometimes a server can have a bad day too  y'know...). 

Sometimes I have been to restaurants where it feels that they are almost doing you a favour to serve you because they do not need a tip (Australia, for example does not tip AT ALL) so they push the bill (even if you don't ask for it), take forever to come to your table, forget your drinks, etc...

I think that, in an ideal world, a good norm would be minimum wage plus tips. That way your chances to get a snappy service are incredibly increased.


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## Fernando

I must say that service in Madrid. Not everywhere in Spain, I have said Madrid is awful. I am quite surprised when foreigners say they have been well treated. I assume they do not go the same bars or restaurants I go.

The problem is that many waiters feel their job is underpaid and (over all) is not 'noble' to serve other people. As a consequence, they do not care about their job. Many of them are not trained professionals, but students or inmigrants that have found no other job. They simply they do not like their job.



			
				KateNicole said:
			
		

> ...when foreign people walk into the restaurant where I work (and even though they usually only leave me a 10% tip) I try to take their table in an instant and be extra friendly and accommodating so they can at least have ONE positive run-in with a native Wisconsinite.



 Kate, you have succeeded. Please, tell us where your restaurant is. We will go and ask to be served ONLY by KateNicole. I promise you a 10,1 % tip.


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## SusieQ

All of this is very interesting and comparing it to my country really complicated.  Here in Guatemala is rare to find a restaurant or bar where you need to calculate the tip or even leave a cash tip, since the tip is always of 10% and almost always included in the bill.  So even if the service was terrible and you had an awful time you still leave a tip since you have no other choice.


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## KateNicole

Hey Fernando,
Now that you mention it, when I was eating in Madrid, I had to leave unexpectedly mid-meal, so I asked my waitress to wrap my food or bring me a box.  She said "Sure, I'll be right back."  Then she returned with nothing but the bill and when I reminded her that I was taking my food with me (becuase I had hardly eaten any of it!) she gave me a luke-warm apology for throwing it away and offered me nothing more.  Oh the hell that would have been raised had I committed that error as a waitress in America!!!  Other than that memorable experience, I thought the service was OK in Madrid, although it seemed to get friendlier the farther north we went--especially in Santiago de Compostela.  Outstanding waiters!   Here in the US, the waiters tend to converse with you a little more, and in Spain it was generally just "What will you be drinking? What will you be eating?"  Fine by me though.  I hate small talk.

And one more thing, your country has the most beautiful "truck stops" I have ever seen in my life.  I loved stopping at them when we traveled by bus up the northern part of Spain.  Tablecloths, crystal stemware, home-made specialties, and usually, very charming waiters and waitresses.  I'm impressed.  It seems like in America we are so obsessed with practicality that we constantly forego the finer things in life.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few more tablecloths here and there . . .


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## astronauta

Fernando said:
			
		

> I must say that service in Madrid. Not everywhere in Spain, I have said Madrid is awful. I am quite surprised when foreigners say they have been well treated.



I think is the cheeky servers that know who will leave them a tip...



			
				KateNicole said:
			
		

> Here in the US, the waiters tend to converse with you a little more, and in Spain it was generally just "What will you be drinking? What will you be eating?"



I think that is because the line between server and guest is very well marked; they are there to serve you, not become your friends. Unless you start chatting them up, they would rarely do...


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## KateNicole

SusieQ,
Sounds about the same in most of Europe.  I wish we could just do away with tipping altogehter.  It's so frustrating for both the customer (who has a hard time figuring out how to do it when traveling from country to country) and the waiter, who bears the brunt of the clueless customer.  *sigh*


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## astronauta

I disagree, Kate, tipping, (where to wait is a profession and a country's costume) can pump the service and make your meal way more memorable.

There is nothing more demoralizing than to have a negligent, lazy server...


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## KateNicole

I agree that tipping can pump up the service but the problem is that there are a lot of waiters who do not make minimum and depend almost entirely on their tips, thus putting them at the mercy of their customers, which is not always fair.  A lot of people leave insufficient tips because they just don't understand, and then there are other people who leave insufficient tips deliberately because they misunderstand a restuarant procedure.  For example, in the US, most waiters are trained to the deliver bill when a table has finished eating and the plates are cleared.  However, there are many Latin Americans who view that as a sign of being rushed, and do not want the bill until they request it.  They may view receiving the check without first requesting it as poor or rude service and leave a smaller tip.  There are also people who want everything very fast (soup, salad, appetizer and entree almost all at once) and when they receive it in a spread out fashion, assume that the service is not fast enough and leave a small tip.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to please certain people no matter how well you do your job . . . and whenever there's a misunderstanding, it's the waiter who is punished.  I think the importance of tips in the US has gone WAY too far . . .

Also, there are a lot of professional waiters in the US as well.  I personally am waiting tables to work my way through grad school (I have been doing this since I was 17 and payed my undergrad. tuition this way) but that is NOT to say that I don't take my job seriously.  This is not my life career, but I bring as much professionalism to the job as I possible can.  

The idea of a tip as a "bonus" is a fine idea, but the problem is that in the US, when you make only $2.33 an hour (which after taxes leaves you with about 50 cents per hour) a three dollar tip here and a three dollar tip there isn't much to rejoice over . . .


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## ILT

KateNicole said:
			
		

> I agree that tipping can pump up the service but the problem is that there are a lot of waiters who do not make minimum and depend almost entirely on their tips, thus putting them at the mercy of their customers, which is not always fair.
> The idea of a tip as a "bonus" is a fine idea, but the problem is that in the US, when you make only $2.33 an hour (which after taxes leaves you with about 50 cents per hour) a three dollar tip here and a three dollar tip there isn't much to rejoice over . . .



Actually, what I think is not fair is for employers to pay below minimum wage.  As I understand, minimum wave is mandatory by law, and if the employer does not want to comply with the law, why should the customer be expected to make up for it?  The customer is not breaking any laws, the customer is just expecting a good meal with good service at a fair price, fair price depending on the type of food and the type of restaurant, of course.  (I cannot expect to go to Maxim's in Paris and pay 1.50 for a slice of cake, that would be unreasonable).


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## astronauta

Kate, I totally agree on minimum wage as I said before.

The problems you highlight are easily resolved by communication. Ask if your guest would like everything together or spread apart...takes 1 second.
As to when to bring the bill, you have to use your "people's" eye (most waiters have it) and be attentive, do they make eye contact? are they foreign?... In my opinion is not completely clueless...

ILT, I entirely agree on everything you say.


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## KateNicole

I agree.  That's why I have said I wish we could do away with the extreme importance of tipping in American restaurants and the only way to do that is to pay the waitstaff a fair wage.  But in the end, you, the customer, WILL make up for it, because the menu prices will rise.  

Like I've said, unfortunately, a tip is NOT a bonus in the US--unless of course you choose to tip MORE than 20%.  I probably can't change anyone's mind as to how much to tip when the US, but the indisputable truth is that almost all waiters only make $2.33 an hour.  If you skip out on the tip, you're really hurting someone.


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## KateNicole

I know astronauta, but it's very hard to just "guess" everyone's preferences or learn the local preferences of every single country. That's why I think it makes more sense for the customer to immediately address any problems with the waiter, rather than just having an unpleasurable dining experience without ever speaking up, and then not leaving a tip. 

It's a very frustrating topic for me as a waitress. Sometimes you feel like you can never do enough . . .

I make a point of asking every single table TWICE if everything is OK or if there is anything I can do for them.  Also, at the end of every meal I ALWAYS ask the customer how everything was before delivering the check.  Nine times out of ten, the people who leave less than 10% or nothing at all are the same ones who smiled at me and said everything was "great".


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## astronauta

I know exactly what you mean Kate. I have been there.
It is a very honourable job, dealing with the public is one of the hardest things and not everyone can do it.

My two cents here are: *be alert and do your best*; because we cannot make people change.

You don't have to learn every custom form every single country, but having a hawk's eye will help you know a lot more from your customers.... That is exactly what psychics do .

About asking if everything is okay repeatitively is not good and if you get a posh crowd that does not fancy to be interrupted, it will affect your tip. Look for eye contact instead, it really works.

I am sure you are a great waitress and your clients must know it!


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## Phryne

Fernando said:
			
		

> I do not know Mexico's uses, but in Spain (should I say Europe?) we assume the waiter has been paid by the employer. It is usual to leave a small amount (let us say 1 euro or so) or a small percentage of the bill (5%?) IF the service is VERY good. You can leave nothing and the waiter is not entitled to llok you with angry face.


 Wow, all makes sense to me now. Unless the service is really bad, I always tip about 15-20% regardless of the country where I am. If they hook me up with something like an extra dish, they get even more! So now I understand why the waiters in Barcelona (Caracoles, yummy!) gave me a tour around the whole restaurant and they included a small history class!


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## Cristmarsal

I have enjoyed this thread!
When I was student, I used to not leave tips at all... In my city was not in use (let´s say, some cents when adjust "big" coins or bills... we had coins until the equivalent to five dollars). 
Then, I started to travell, and I went first to US, where I was really suprised! 10,15 and 20% was perfectly common!!
Now, the use of tips are more regular here, but we not follow a rule for % (at least in my city.) Just is expected when you tip, but is not usual to tip more than 3 euros.. and it not depend of the bill amount.
By the way, I punish a bad service with the tip just leaving one cent, when I feel I have been treated rude or very bad. Just want to make sure the waiter/waitres think  I not use to tip. 
When I travel, I try to check always wath is expected, because every country is diferent and don´t want to be not polite with anybody (sure I have use double or triple negative here)
about if is against the law pay less than wage, just thinking, in Spain, some comercial staff (for diferent products) usually dont get a wage, or sometimes less, they get paid for comissions... I think the sistem in US have something in common with that idea... the waiter/waitress being a comercial for that restaurant...
saludos


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## ILT

KateNicole said:
			
		

> I know astronauta, but it's very hard to just "guess" everyone's preferences or learn the local preferences of every single country.





			
				KateNicole said:
			
		

> ... and then there are other people who leave insufficient tips deliberately because they misunderstand a restuarant procedure.



I can understand your frustration, you can't read your customer's mind, but then again, it is not the obligation of the customer to learn the procedures of the restaurant.  I know that some countries expect the tourist to learn their way in the culture they're visiting, but for us, in México, the tourist is to be helped in any way we can, he is to be guided, not expected to follow us 

Dealing with clients is one of the hardest jobs there are, and I respect you for that, and even more for the effort you are showing here to do a great job.

Keep that spirit up KateNicole!!!


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## Phryne

I love translating said:
			
		

> Actually, what I think is not fair is for employers to pay below minimum wage. As I understand, minimum wave is mandatory by law, and if the employer does not want to comply with the law, why should the customer be expected to make up for it? The customer is not breaking any laws, the customer is just expecting a good meal with good service at a fair price, fair price depending on the type of food and the type of restaurant, of course. (I cannot expect to go to Maxim's in Paris and pay 1.50 for a slice of cake, that would be unreasonable).


 What's worse, ILT, is that employers are not doing anything illegal. They don't have to pay minimum wage if you have a job that gets you tips. Those tips, also, are heavily taxed as any other personal income. 

I do agree that the law should make employers pay _a decent salary_ for their employees' work, as in any other business. It's unfair for the waiter/waitress that their work is _evaluated subjectively_, and they are at the mercy of the customer. It's also unfair for the customer that the employee's salary depends on how much extra they are willing to spend. In a way, customers are paying 10-20% more for their meals than what it says on the menu. 

 So, since the laws are not going to change, and I believe that waiters/waitresses/bartenders deserve to earn decent wages, I convince myself that the tip is not a gratuity but part of the price of my meal. If I can afford to eat out or order drinks, then, I can afford to pay extra for the service. If I can't afford the tip, I just don't go out at all.

  saludos


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## ILT

Phryne said:
			
		

> What's worse, ILT, is that employers are not doing anything illegal.



Wow!!!  I didn't know that!!!!

It IS worse!


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## Phryne

Hi KateNicole!

Funny you say Germany seemd expensive to you. Coming from NYC, I found Germany to be really affordable, even taking into consideration the currency exchange that doesn't benefit the dollar. Anyway, I don't agree with you when you say "_If we were to go to the "European method" of just printing "service included" on the menu, you wouldn't have to tip, but the price of your favorite entree would be increased about 18% automatically. In my opinion, no one has it better in Europe, because the customer is, in essence, "tipping" the waiter every single time, regardless of the quality (or lack there of) of the service_." Waiters/waitresses are providing a service, good or not, and they should be paid for that. One thing is to tip on top of your bill to reward efficient service, but a much different one is to leave a person earning $2,33 and hour, which it’s not just below minimum wage, it’s way lower than minimum living conditions. When I go to the pharmacy and the service is bad, I don't pay less for my prescription. I just don't go to that pharmacy ever again. It is the owner who should get my point and try either to hire more competent staff or motivate their employees to treat customers better. If the worker provides a bad service, s/he should get fired, period. But, in any case, customers should never be responsible for a person’s salary. It's not the staff's problem, but the restaurant who failed to provide a decent service.


 Saludos


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## VenusEnvy

Well, I guess Kate and I (and other servers in the US) are simply used to this way of doing things. Those servers who work harder, are tipped better (on average).



			
				Phryne said:
			
		

> When I go to the pharmacy and the service is bad, I don't pay less for my prescription. I just don't go to that pharmacy ever again.


This is true. But, the "dining experience" is more than just putting food into your body and digesting it. It's the atmosphere of the place, it's the attitude of the server, and the conversation, how valued you feel as a customer, etc. Here, people want to be pampered when they go out to eat. (Someone, stop me if I am over-generalizing here.) 

So, the harder a server works to please his/her customer, the more money he/she earns. I suppose this is the idea behind it.


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## ILT

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> So, the harder a server works to please her customer, the more money he/she earns. I suppose this is the idea behind it.



I agree with you, Venus, the problem is when the waiter thinks that the tip is mandatory whether he/she provides good or bad service, and when the client is not adviced that the tip is not included - it usually says so on most menus.


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## Phryne

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Well, I guess Kate and I (and other servers in the US) are simply used to this way of doing things. Those servers who work harder, are tipped better (on average).
> 
> 
> This is true. But, the "dining experience" is more than just putting food into your body and digesting it. It's the atmosphere of the place, it's the attitude of the server, and the conversation, how valued you feel as a customer, etc. Here, people want to be pampered when they go out to eat. (Someone, stop me if I am over-generalizing here.)
> 
> So, the harder a server works to please her customer, the more money he/she earns. I suppose this is the idea behind it.


 Hi Nic!

In my opinion, it's a good idea up to a certain extent. Most jobs are about providing customers a nice experience, good service, attention, etc, but only very few jobs are being paid in those terms (tips). The idea of getting paid according to the service you provide is a little perverse, first of all, because that’s not really what happens. You are a 100% at the mercy of the customer. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen rich and neurotic New Yorkers complaining about absolutely everything in the restaurant that it’s not necessarily the waiter/waitress’ fault and still gave them a terrible tip. Who pays the price when the foods leaves the kitchen late, or when the manager forgot to order X ingredient and the busboy runs to the store to buy it while the customer waits? As I said, most employees are the face of the business and it’s the owner/manager’s responsibility to hire the right person. If you don’t provide a good service, sayonara. If you do, you get to stay. That’s how it always is on every other business. 

 Secondly, if you have a bad tip day or a very slow one you can go home with $2.33 an hour, and just that. That’s almost enslavement. If my job is slow, I go home with the same amount of money as if I had to work every microsecond of it. After all, any worker’s time is rewarded for just showing up and doing what you have to do. 

  saludos


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## VenusEnvy

Phryne said:
			
		

> Secondly, if you have a bad tip day or a very slow one you can go home with $2.33 an hour, and just that. That’s almost enslavement. If my job is slow, I go home with the same amount of money as if I had to work every microsecond of it. After all, any worker’s time is rewarded for just showing up and doing what you have to do.



Phryne: I agree. Sometimes, it sucks! And, for the exact reasons you mentioned.


However, one of my first waitressing jobs was at a slow restaurant. So slow, in fact, that some nights, I would "walk" with something like $10. In those cases that our tips were so low ($2.33 + tips < minimum wage) , the restaurant would pay us minimum wage. Not like this makes it any better...


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## astronauta

That really sucks! How can yo live on that?

In Canada is not as bad, there is minimum wage for everyone; and still, you cannot make a decent independent living out of it.
I used to work at a restaurant in the touristy area but ended up quitting because tipping was bad (I woudl literally run away from Australians).

So I decided to take a wine course and made better tips cause I could offer a better service.

Afterwards I decided to work in hotel banquets, where the tip was included on everything and that was peachy but back-breaking....

Conclusion: there is no dream job!


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## Like an Angel

Fernando said:
			
		

> When travelling to Latin/Hispanic America (Chile, Argentina, Venezuela...) I use to leave about 10% of the bill and I think it is the general norm.


 
It can be a general norm my friend, but it is not followed... maybe in Buenos Aires and in great restaurants, but not all the argentinians leave 10% as a tip


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## Fernando

I must admit my company payed the bills.


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## camberos

I agree that 10% es the normal wage ( I live inMexico). sometimes, if i can, and the service was good, I`ll leave more. Below 10% is just not right.


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