# päivällinen / illallinen



## Gavril

Spongiformi said:


> Like in Gavril's examples, the future tense makes no difference. (Although to be exact dinner is _päivällinen, _not _illallinen_.)



I tried to double-check this before posting (having run into this confusion before), and Kielitoimiston sanakirja seemed to confirm that _illallinen_ was the evening meal (which is what I, a US-English speaker, consider "dinner"), and _päivällinen_ was an afternoon ("iltapäivällä syötävä") meal.

One problem here is that the British (and British Eng. is often the type of English that Finns learn) can use _dinner_ to refer to either an evening meal or a mid-day meal, which could perhaps also be called _päivällinen.
_
Also, of course, there can be differences between countries in terms of when the meals of the day are typically eaten. But I thought that modern-day Finland had more or less the same dinnertime as we (in the USA, etc.) do.

Did I misunderstand something in Kielitoimiston sanakirja's definitions?


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## Spongiformi

Oh. Seems like I unnecessary complicated things as I didn't come to think of the fact that "dinner" covers more in English (basically then both _päivällinen & illallinen _if I understood you correctly). _Lounas_ and _päivällinen _would be the two main meals of a day in Finnish. _Illallinen_ is something else, most likely much lighter, that one eats shortly before going to sleep.


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## Gavril

Spongiformi said:


> Oh. Seems like I unnecessary complicated things as I didn't come to think of the fact that "dinner" covers more in English (basically then both _päivällinen & illallinen _if I understood you correctly).



It wouldn't cover_ illallinen _as you describe it below (i.e. a usually-light meal that one eats before going to sleep). I would call that a "pre-bedtime snack" or similar. _dinner_ seems to be the same as _päivällinen_, except that perhaps dinner tends to be eaten during a different time in English-speaking countries than in Finland (see my question below).



> _Lounas_ and _päivällinen_ would be the two main meals of a day in Finnish. _Illallinen_ is something else, most likely much lighter, that one eats shortly before going to sleep.



Good to have this clarified. Is there a particular time range when _päivällinen_ is normally eaten?

In the United States at least, dinner usually starts in the early evening (5-7pm).

Kiitos vielä kerran


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## Spongiformi

Yeah, I'd say that time range is usual for _päivällinen. _Don't ask me why it's called that, though, as the name would seem to suggest it's eaten during the daytime, not closer to the evening. At least there shouldn't be any confusion between _lounas_ and _päivällinen_ because _lounas_ isn't so different a word from lunch. In any case during the more regular times in history, it would be the suitable time after school and work when the family is back home.

I wouldn't be shocked, though, if a later _päivällinen _would be easily called _illallinen_ even if it was just as hearty, should a person's schedule or preferences dictate such a shift. Probably a good idea not to consider it a strict rule.


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## Gavril

One thing I'm still curious about is, why did Kielitoimiston sanakirja say that _päivällinen_ is eaten in the afternoon ("iltapäivällä syötävä") -- is this dictionary out-of-date in regards to when _päivällinen_ is normally eaten?

Or, can _iltapäivä_ have a broader meaning than "afternoon" (which I generally understand to be ~1-5pm, sometimes maybe stretching to 6pm)?


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## Cujo^

Gavril said:


> One thing I'm still curious about is, why did Kielitoimiston sanakirja say that _päivällinen_ is eaten in the afternoon ("iltapäivällä syötävä") -- is this dictionary out-of-date in regards to when _päivällinen_ is normally eaten?
> 
> Or, can _iltapäivä_ have a broader meaning than "afternoon" (which I generally understand to be ~1-5pm, sometimes maybe stretching to 6pm)?



I'm not sure, but I suppose that the time when people use to eat _päivällinen _has become later than in the past and maybe Kielitoimiston sanakirja hasn't bothered modifying the description of the word (it would be interesting to see the older editions of the dictionary). Anyways, I searched in Google "mihin aikaan päivällinen syödään" and found lots of conversations which reveale that there's much variation among the people: some people eat _päivällinen _at 4 pm and others at 8 pm.

In my use of language _illallinen _is a more formal meal than _päivällinen, _but I don't see a big difference in the time span.


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