# Gay



## GammaRay

Hello,

     I'm wondering how to say, "Of course he's gay!" It's for a piece of dialogue in my short story. 

My attempt: "Nu konyechna on galuboy!"

Spasiba!


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## Rosett

Конечно, он голубой.


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## Saluton

GammaRay, "ну конечно, он голубой", as you proposed, indeed sounds better, more emotional than Rosett's version but it depends on the context whether you can use it or not.


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## eni8ma

могу ли я спрашивать ...
In English, the comma makes a difference ...
- Of course he's gay! it's easy to tell!
- Of course, he's gay. Well, do you realise that he is gay ...

Which meaning does "ну конечно, он голубой" convey?
How would you say each phrase in Russian? or is the comma also used the same way?


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## Rosett

По-русски запятая обязательна. Ваши варианты переводятся, например, так.

Конечно, он - голубой!
Конечно, он голубой.


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## Saluton

eni8ma said:


> можно спросить?..
> In English, the comma makes a difference...
> - Of course he's gay! it's easy to tell!
> - Of course, he's gay. Well, do you realise that he is gay...
> 
> Which meaning does "ну конечно, он голубой" convey?
> How would you say each phrase in Russian? or is the comma also used the same way?


"Ну конечно, он голубой" conveys the first meaning. "Ну" implies "can't you see?" It is often used in exclamatory sentences and shows surprise, or slight annoyance, or is just used for emphasis, i.e. it puts extra emotions in the sentence.



Rosett said:


> Конечно, он - голубой!
> Конечно, он голубой.


The dash is unnecessary in both cases.


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## macdevster

Bringing up an older thread. 

So is голубой more accepted these days in a positive way?  Or is голубой only used in a negative way (like the word "faggot")?  Can one use голубой to simply describe someone as gay or is automatically a put-down?

From the perspective of my Uzbek students, it still seems pretty negative to them.


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## Awwal12

macdevster said:


> Bringing up an older thread.
> 
> So is голубой more accepted these days in a positive way?


I don't know what in the world "positive" should mean here. Colloquial, neutral (i.e. not pejorative, unlike the majority of the terms). The very gays, of course, likely would prefer even more neutral and more formal loanword "гей".


macdevster said:


> From the perspective of my Uzbek students, it still seems pretty negative to them.


In the first place it's necessary to separate the connotation of the word and the attitude towards the homosexualism itself. The word is neutral enough (you likely might use it in a talk with your gay friend without offending him), but homophobia may be safely called a norm on the post-Soviet area.


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## macdevster

Yeah, I get that homophobia runs amok in the former Soviet Union. I simply want to know if " Голубой" is being used interchangeably with the word for gay. Or if it's still a perjorative.


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## Maroseika

I think голубой has pejorative tint. Гей is neutral.


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## Awwal12

macdevster said:


> Yeah, I get that homophobia runs amok in the former Soviet Union. I simply want to know if " Голубой" is being used interchangeably with the word for gay. Or if it's still a perjorative.


Neither, or at least I believe so. "Гей" is more formal and strictly neutral. "Голубой" is more colloquial. But again, it normally can be used with gays without offence, or even occasionally used by gays. Compare the gay bar "Голубая устрица" in Moscow, the name of which contains several hints and associations in the same time, or the gay club "Голубая луна" (and, of course, the very song by Boris Moiseyev which has given its name to it). No, it is not pejorative by default (and, of course, you can say ANY word with a pejorative look and intonation if you want )


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## Rosett

"Голубой" is marked as colloquial in ГОЛУБОЙ, but outside of the gay community it has never been neutral in the given sense.

[...]
Mod note: part of the post irrelevant to the topic deleted


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## rusita preciosa

Maroseika said:


> I think голубой has pejorative tint. Гей is neutral.


I absolutely agree with this. Голубой is similar to the English queer: not a direct insult, but a pretty pejorative term.


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## Rosett

rusita preciosa said:


> Голубой is similar to the English queer: not a direct insult, but a pretty pejorative term.


"Queer", albeit unquestionably disparaging in the given sense, can be rendered as голубой only if a gay is talking of himself or of his peers (this includes lesbians and other LGBT, not only "голубые"), because of "gay pride" reclaiming offensive words for "internal" usage.
Generally, "queer" is a (mild) insult, corresponding to (if talking about gays proper) "педик" in Russian, or depending on context, up to an offensive "пидор", and, therefore, must be used with greater caution.


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## macdevster

And even "queer" is becoming more neutral in the wider community.  As more letters are added on (LGBTQIA+), many folks like me are using queer more often, for example "...important issues in the queer and trans community."  Colleges and universities often have Queer Studies or Queer Lit or Queer History classes these days.  Context is important, of course.  That evolution definitely happened in my lifetime and I wonder how things will involve linguistically in Russia.


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## Rosett

macdevster said:


> And even "queer" is becoming more neutral in the wider community.  As more letters are added on (LGBTQIA+), many folks like me are using queer more often, for example "...important issues in the queer and trans community."  Colleges and universities often have Queer Studies or Queer Lit or Queer History classes these days.  Context is important, of course.  That evolution definitely happened in my lifetime and I wonder how things will involve linguistically in Russia.


These things got some relief after decriminalization of the legacy male sodomy in modern Russia, but still no one can ever imagine propagation of alternative sexuality through the publicly given (or even legally privately taught) courses similar to what you cited. I think one may observe even a backlash of the excess, and that is clearly reflected by the status of the corresponding vocabulary in Russian.


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## Vovan

rusita preciosa said:


> Maroseika said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think голубой has pejorative tint. Гей is neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely agree with this. Голубой is similar to the English queer: not a direct insult, but a pretty pejorative term.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, too.

I can't imagine a web site for gays which could refer to itself as _"для голубых"_, for example.  
(But the trend may well change - especially with the arrival of more or less huge mass media projects which will set the fashion.)

_"Голубок"_ and _"Голубая устрица" _are rather euphemistic, I would say.
So, in a way, is _"голубизна",_ which is occasionally said in a compromising/understanding/humorous way:
_Голубизны у нас в универе хватает.
Эх вы, голубизна! Нашли бы себе уже нормальных девчонок!_​

Still, I advise to use _more euphemistic_ ways to refer to a particular gay in everyday Russia (when the context makes it clear what you mean). Probably, it won't be a reference _per se_. (Recent federal regulations on gay issues have been provocative enough to inspire gay haters with a (false) sense of immunity. Therefore, excessive referencing may prove to be potentially unsafe in an unpredictable way.)

The words that can be applied might include:
_"другой", "не такой", "нестандартный", "необычный", "оригинальный", "интерес(ы)", "пристрастия", "увлечения", "специализация", "предпочтения", etc._​
And, of course, the traditional_ "нестандартная __сексуальная__ ориентация" _can be safely used, too_._


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## Angelo di fuoco

The _traditional_ euphemism, as much as I dislike it for its absurd implications, is _нетрадиционная_ (сексуальная) ориентация.


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## Vovan

*Angelo di fuoco
*
You're right here!
It may have slipped my mind just for the same reason that you dislike it.


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