# する方もする方なら、させる方もさせる方だ



## Pavel Bond

こんな非常識極まりないことを、する方もする方なら、させる方もさせる方だ。
This extremely unreasonable thing... ??????


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## frequency

In short, that says する方 and させる方 are equally wrong.  There are two people. One did an extremely unreasonable thing, and another let him or her do it. The speaker says they are equally wrong.
Why is it so? We don't know―we say so, and it sounds like one of our expressions. You can say する方もする方で悪く、させる方もさせる方で悪い。But yours is somewhat an abbreviated version.

This is often used to reprimand for a wrong thing, like your OP.


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## Pavel Bond

Thank you! 
It is pronounced _ho:_ or _kata_ here?
May I say, for example: 君も君で悪く、彼も彼で悪い？


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## frequency

You're welcome. We say hō.


Pavel Bond said:


> 君も君で悪く、彼も彼で悪い？


Yes good, if you want to say する方 is your hearer. You're saying "You're wrong." In Japanese, this 彼も彼で悪い sounds that he is away, somebody not with you. But your OP can work when the two are with you. (And you're talking to them.)


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## Pavel Bond

Thanks!


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## frequency

frequency said:


> But your OP can work when the two are with you.


Your OP also can work when they're away, not with you. pronouns 君、彼 can suggest the distance between you (speaker) and a hearer, but する方 and させる方 don't do so.


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## Pavel Bond

Sorry, but isn't it a bit controversial?))
1. Your OP also can work when they're away, not with you.
2. する方 and させる方 don't do so　(= can't suggest the distance between you (speaker) and a hearer)


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## frequency

Pavel Bond said:


> 2. する方 and させる方 don't do so　(= can't suggest the distance between you (speaker) and a hearer)


Ah sorry I mean that する方 and させる方 don't work to strictly specify a person like "you" "him".
する方 and させる方 are a lot versatile, flexible. For this reason, they're variously okay:

1 A speaker is with them. The three people are together and you're talking to them.
2 For example, you've heard news about an extremely unreasonable affair. You say the OP to your friend. The する方 and させる方 can denote just somebody you don't know. They're people in the news.
3 Either one is away and either one is together with you.
Whether they're with you or not doesn't matter much. Roughly understandable?


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## Pavel Bond

Thank you, now it's clear.
And the case with "君、彼" works only in the part _3 "Either one is away and either one is together with you", _right?


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## frequency

About #3, it would be a bit complicated.
Your friend Alexander did a wrong thing. Your friend Michael let him do it.

You speak to Alex but Michael isn't there.
The 君 and 彼 version works, and the する方 and させる方 version also works. する方 implies Alex and させる方 does Michael.

When Alex isn't there but Michael is with you,


> 君も君で悪く、彼も彼で悪い


Of course 君 is Michael, and 彼 is Alex.
And if you say する方 and させる方, する方 still implies Alex and させる方 does Micheal, too.

You know, if you say 君も君で悪く・・, it says "You're wrong."
But if you say する方もする方で悪く・・ it says "a (the) actor is wrong." You're not saying "you!". And the point is that する方 can denote variously－you, Alex, somebody you don't know, etc.

You can say する人、させる人 instead.


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## Pavel Bond

Thank you, frequency!


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