# summa cum laude  [why ablative?]



## StargazerT3

Hi everyone,

I'm taking my Elementary Latin this fall, and I have bunch of questions with expressing "*of*", "*with*" and "*and*" in Latin.

< Other questions have their own threads. Cagey, moderator. >

3)
I looked up the Latin phrase "_summa cum laude_" (with the highest praise) in Wiktionary, and it indicates laude as ablative case. But I didn't see the reason for that. I mean, what is the "movement away from something"?
And generally how do I express things in the {"adjective", "with", "noun"} format in Latin?

Thank you so much for your help in advance!!


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## exgerman

StargazerT3 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm taking my Elementary Latin this fall, and I have bunch of questions with expressing "*of*", "*with*" and "*and*" in Latin.
> 
> < Other questions have their own threads. Cagey, moderator. >
> 
> 3)
> I looked up the Latin phrase "_summa cum laude_" (with the highest praise) in Wiktionary, and it indicates laude as ablative case. But I didn't see the reason for that. I mean, what is the "movement away from something"?
> And generally how do I express things in the {"adjective", "with", "noun"} format in Latin?


The Latin ablative case has instrumental and locative functions as well as ablative ones.

But in this case the answer is even simpler: the object of the preposition _cum_ is always in the ablative case.

Incidentally, _summa_ is also ablative---the Latin phrase uses a fancy word order. It could just as easily be phrased as _cum summa laude_.


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## Scholiast

salvete!



exgerman said:


> the Latin phrase uses a fancy word order



Latin-speakers might find the word-order of English - or German - "fancy".

Σ


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## Copperknickers

Scholiast said:


> salvete!
> 
> 
> 
> Latin-speakers might find the word-order of English - or German - "fancy".
> 
> Σ



What he means I think is that 'summa' is not the usual word position even in Latin, the 'cum' should come first. It doesn't in this case because 'summa' is being stressed: 'with the _highest_ praise.'


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## exgerman

exgerman said:


> It could just as easily be phrased as _cum summa laude_.



Actually, now that I've thought about it some more, this kind of cum-phrase,  technically called the ablative of attendant circumstance, which describes important background information, almost always has the form adjective+cum+noun.


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## Copperknickers

Quite correct, I was wrong also. It's very common: 'magno cum exercito', for example. Although it is most common if the adjective is a superlative no? 'Illo tempore maxima cum cura'.


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## Scholiast

Copperknickers said:


> exercito


An "oops" moment. Coppernickers meant _exercitu_, I think.
Σ


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## Copperknickers

Scholiast said:


> An "oops" moment. Coppernickers meant _exercitu_, I think.
> Σ



Of course. I'll shut up now  Morphology was never my strong point.


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## Scholiast

Copperknickers said:


> I'll shut up now


Please don't!


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## Pugnator

You are doing a lot of confusion because on UK on school the grammar isn't studied.  English and Latin are two completely different language, so you shouldn't think with proposition but with complements. The ablative on this case serve to express a complement of mode(the way in which an action is done), when summa is the adjective of laude (both are on ablative). The construction adj-in-abl + cum + abl- is very common on Latin. (sorry for my bad English).


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## voltape

Pugnator said:


> You are doing a lot of confusion because on UK on school the grammar isn't studied.  English and Latin are two completely different language, so you shouldn't think with proposition but with complements. The ablative on this case serve to express a complement of mode(the way in which an action is done), when summa is the adjective of laude (both are on ablative). The construction adj-in-abl + cum + abl- is very common on Latin. (sorry for my bad English).


Don't worry for your English - our Neapolitan doesn't go much beyond "O sole mio".


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## Scholiast

salve, salve Pugnator!


Pugnator said:


> You are doing a lot of confusion because on UK on school the grammar isn't studied...


id quod scripsisti, heus, verius quam vellem, verum est.
O tempora...!
Σ


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