# Hindi/Urdu: fearless



## panjabigator

I have encountered this word in my readings of a Manto anthology: <be baak>.  The 21st century dictionary suggests "fearless" as meaning.  I have several queries:
1) Is this word literary or could someone be described as a <be baak aadmii>?
2) What would you say in Hindi for this?  The Panjabi that comes to mind is <nirbhau>, and so I presume the Hindi should be <nirbhay>, but I'm uncertain as to how understood/widespread this would be.  Is <bhay> more intense than <Dar>?
3) Would a Hindi speaker understand this word?

Thank you,
PG


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## arsham

this word is also used in Persian (it is actually Persian) and in Pers. it's a bookish/literary word. بی باک the first element bii/be is the prefix meaning -less as in بیچاره biichaare/bechaaraa in hindi (I guess ?) and the second element is baak meaning fear, so it exactly means fearless, and بی باکی biibaakii = fearlessness.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Well, in Urdu and Hindi there is *niDar* also. It is a word I've heard around me and that is understood.

And there are also other words such as *be-khauf* (*o haraas*), *be-dhaRak,* etc...


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## panjabigator

Nice, thank you.  I have heard all three of those, but I couldn't recall them at the moment.  Not too sure what my parents would say spontaneously, so I'll ask them and post.


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## Faylasoof

In both Lucknow and Karachi I found 'native' Urdu speakers (not all of them that well educated) were able to understand my <be baak> usage. They were mostly older people though. Perhaps it was my <be baakii> to assume this before I started. But at least with them there was no problem... and yes we do say: <woh shaxs be baak / nidar/ dileer/ shajaa3/ jur'atmand / HauSalahmand / baa HauSalah etc. hai>

 بے باک  با حوصلہ  نِڈَر   بے خَوف   دِلير   بہادُر جراتمند  شجاع

These are used and understood well.


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## panjabigator

Thank you all.


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## BP.

Fayla, all the young people I've met understand _baybaak_ and use it too. Idem for the rest.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Faylas,

In your above post you wrote dileer... is it a typo or a different pronounciation ??? because I've always heard this word pronounced daleer (with fatHah / zabar on the daal)... ?


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## Illuminatus

We use <Dar> much more than <bhay>, so <niDar> is more common compared to <nirbhay>.

I didn't know bebaak. <Be-khauf> would be understood, as <khauf> is a common word around here.


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## BP.

_baybaak_ is also used for extrovert as in _baybaak dosheeza_.


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## Illuminatus

_dosheeza_ means girl, I think (I remember somebody writing dosheeba-e-khaana in the thread on -e-)

So, would baybaak dosheeza mean, a brave fearless girl?


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Faylas,
> 
> In your above post you wrote dileer... is it a typo or a different pronounciation ??? because I've always heard this word pronounced daleer (with fatHah / zabar on the daal)... ?


 
Clico,

Yes, in our Luchnavi pronunciation it is <dileer>. I know some say <daleer> but in Karachi too I heard <dileer> from ex-UP waalaas. I think original Dehlavis also said <dileer>. I shall find out.


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## Faylasoof

Illuminatus said:


> _dosheeza_ means girl, I think (I remember somebody writing dosheeba-e-khaana in the thread on -e-)
> 
> So, would baybaak dosheeza mean, a brave fearless girl?


 
Yes, Illumin! You can use it for anyone who is fearless / brave, regardless of gender.


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## Illuminatus

Another word, which would probably mean _Daredevil_ is jaambaaz


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## Faylasoof

Ah! Illumin, do you mean jaa.n baaz? If so, then I agree. Farsi origin - jaan / jaa.n + baaz -> from baaziidan. In Urdu we use it the same way and also have the related expressions <jaan kii baazii lagaanaa> and <jaan par khel jaanaa>, but with a somewhat different meanings.

A few more synonyms for brave / valiant / fearless: <jarraar جرار >; < jarii جري >; and there is even <safdar در+ صف>. We've already had <shujaa3 / shajaa3 شجاع >and <bahaadur بہادُر> etc. etc. above, so plenty of choice .


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## panjabigator

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Faylas,
> 
> In your above post you wrote dileer... is it a typo or a different pronounciation ??? because I've always heard this word pronounced daleer (with fatHah / zabar on the daal)... ?



I know that it is a a Panjabi tendency to pronounce certain words that normally carry a _zer_ with a _zabar._ Haven't you heard people say <damaaG> for <dimaaG>?  I don't think this is restricted just to the uneducated.


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## Faylasoof

PG,
You are right about this. I too have heard my Pujabi friends put a _zabar_ where there is a _zer_, e.g. many would say _j*a*haad_ instead of _j*i*haad_. 
Just a couple of days ago I heard a well respected Pakistani Punjabi journalist, and host for a major discussion series, say _g*a*rdaab_ = bha.nwar = whirlpool, instead of the usual g_*i*rdaab_.


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## Illuminatus

In Hindi/Sanskrit, the nasal sound in the middle of a word is the last sound in the row in  which the following consonant lies. So, you have pa, pha, ba, bha, ma so, we pronounce jaambaaz


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## Faylasoof

Interesting!

  In Urdu, Farsi and Arabic also <noon + be = _meem_  sound>, e.g. the word <jeem + noon + be = *jamb*> (= side, flank) and _not_  <_janb_> and <*jumbish*> and _not _<_junbish_>. But this is only when the noon is full. When it is a _noon ghunna_ – the nasal noon, then this rule doesn’t apply as in _jaa.n baaz_, a word that has come into modern Hindi via Urdu.

  BTW, in Urdu jaam = goblet, cup, that is why to me _jaambaaz _appeared so odd as it implies a person who is prepared to risk all not with his life (_jaa.n / jaan_) but with his goblet (_jaam_)!


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## Qureshpor

*One or two points that come to mind.

a) Begum Akhtar pronounces "dimaaGh" as "damaaGh" in the famous Ghalib shi'r ..

niiNd us kii hai, dimaaGh us kaa hai...

b) It appears that in the opposite direction (i.e original zabar changing to zer) is a trait amongst at least some Urdu speaking communities, e.g. sijdah for sajdah

c) Talking about be-baak, what better example to quote than..

rone se aur 'ishq meN be-baak ho ga'e
dho'e ga'e ham itne kih bas paak ho ga'e

Ghalib*


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## Faylasoof

We always say دِلیر _d*i*ler_ and it is the same in Farsi (i.e. _d*i*l-er_ as in _d*i*l_), from where we took it. Besides, all Urdu lexicons I have mention it with a _zer_ (and not a _zabar_) for د daal. 

اے نگہ ناظر ِ میدان بلاخیز ہو پھر
اے زباں صورت ِ شمشیر ِ علی تیز ہو پھر
لال پردے كو قلم كركے دلیر آ پہونچا
پسر ِ سعد كے دربار میں شیر آ پہونچا

(From a _musaddas_ by محب - a _lakhnavi _poet - which begins with this line اے قلم صفحہ قرطاس پر گلریز ہو پھر ).

I' ve heard this recited a many times and by many and it was always  دِلیر   _diler_, never _daler_!

BTW, there are also these synonyms: دِلاوَر dilaawar / جِیالا jiyaalaa


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I know that it is a a Panjabi tendency to pronounce certain words that normally carry a _zer_ with a _zabar._ Haven't you heard people say <damaaG> for <dimaaG>?  I don't think this is restricted just to the uneducated.



Punjabi has been affected by Persian quite considerably. Whilst my father's side use "qabristaan", "chamchah", "bartan" and the like, only 20+ miles away my mother's side use "goristaan", "qaashuq" and "baadiyah"! "damaaGh" is the "Persianised" form of the Arabic "dimaagh". From Steingass..

A دماغ dimāg̠ẖ, in P. damāg̠ẖ, The brains; the palate; the nose; pride, haughtiness, consequential airs; drunkenness; wish, desire;

As I have said earlier, Begum Akhtar pronounces this word as "damaaGh" singing Ghalib's "sab kahaaN kuchh laalah-o-gul meN numaayaaN ho ga'iiN".


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## eskandar

J*a*haad instead of j*i*haad, which Faylasoof mentioned above, is also a typical Persian pronunciation of جهاد.


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## rahulbemba

panjabigator said:


> I have encountered this word in my readings of a Manto anthology: <be baak>.  The 21st century dictionary suggests "fearless" as meaning.  I have several queries:
> 1) Is this word literary or could someone be described as a <be baak aadmii>?
> 2) What would you say in Hindi for this?  The Panjabi that comes to mind is <nirbhau>, and so I presume the Hindi should be <nirbhay>, but I'm uncertain as to how understood/widespread this would be.  Is <bhay> more intense than <Dar>?
> 3) Would a Hindi speaker understand this word?
> 
> Thank you,
> PG



You are right that "nirbhay" and "nidar" are Hindi words for it. And yes, "nirbhay" word is not uncommon in Hindi - people speak it quite often, so they should understand, IMO.


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## Qureshpor

rahulbemba said:


> You are right that "nirbhay" and "nidar" are Hindi words for it. And yes, "nirbhay" word is not uncommon in Hindi - people speak it quite often, so they should understand, IMO.




And here is Iftikhar Arif, with "niDar" in his famous Ghazal...

mere Khudaa mujhe itnaa to mu'tabar kar de
maiN jis makaan meN rahtaa huuN us ko ghar kar de

qabiilah-vaar kamaaneN kaRakne vaalii haiN
mere lahuu kii gavaahii mujhe niDar kar de


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## rahulbemba

QURESHPOR said:


> And here is Iftikhar Arif, with "niDar" in his famous Ghazal...
> 
> mere Khudaa mujhe itnaa to mu'tabar kar de
> maiN jis makaan meN rahtaa huuN us ko ghar kar de
> 
> qabiilah-vaar kamaaneN kaRakne vaalii haiN
> mere lahuu kii gavaahii mujhe niDar kar de



You have copy-pasted so many ghazals in so many forums that I fear this word-reference forum portal has become learn-words-from-ghazals


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## Qureshpor

rahulbemba said:


> You have copy-pasted so many ghazals in so many forums that I fear this word-reference forum portal has become learn-words-from-ghazals



So many forums!? What better way is there to illustrate an etymological or grammatical point than to quote the best practitioners of that language? Whether I have copy pasted or have typed the couplets myself is of no real consequence. If I were a poet I would have used my own verses but alas that is not possible for me. I can of course use my own knowledge of the language and construct suitable sentences to illustrate a point and I have done so on several occasions. However quoting the best of the best writers and poets provides that authority which would be lacking in my made-up examples. As I have said in another thread, others are free to quote sources from their own languages.

One last point. Quoting our masters in daily conversations, public functions, social functions and the like is part of an Urdu speaker's heritage. Let me finish by quoting Akbar Allahabadi.

ham aah bhii karte haiN to ho jaate haiN bad-naam
vuh qatl bhii karte haiN to charchaa nahiiN hotaa!


We get scandalised at even breathing so much as a sigh
Yet they commit murder and everyone turns a blind eye!


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