# gal [current use?]



## casino

An English-Japanese dictionary says:
 
American men call their secretaries or assistants
“gal” while they call their girlfriends or
daughters “girl”.
 
I do not think that this is true because “gal” is old-fashioned.
 
The same dictionary also tells us that “gal” is offensive like “chick”.
 
Then what should we call young women in informal situations?

Casino


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## pob14

Call them "people," unless there is some good reason to refer to their age or sex.


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## merquiades

casino said:


> An English-Japanese dictionary says:
> 
> American men call their secretaries or assistants
> “gal” while they call their girlfriends or
> daughters “girl”.



I don't believe this.  That is very disrespectful towards a secretary.



> I do not think that this is true because “gal” is old-fashioned.



For me, it's not that it's old-fashioned.  A lot of people use it.  I just heard it today.  But, it sounds folksy to me.  That's why I would never use it.



> The same dictionary also tells us that “gal” is offensive like “chick”.



It can be.  It depends on the context really.  Chick is offensive.  It's used by men to refer to women when they are not present.



> Then what should we call young women in informal situations?




Young woman, young lady, or even girl.  I'd probably use girl in an informal setting.

Casino[/QUOTE]


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## -mack-

casino said:


> An English-Japanese dictionary says:
> 
> American men call their secretaries or assistants
> “gal” while they call their girlfriends or
> daughters “girl”.



To be honest, this sounds like a really old-fashioned and sexist dictionary. I would absolutely avoid calling a female coworker or assistant a _gal. _That just sounds very sexist and condescending to me.



casino said:


> The same dictionary also tells us that “gal” is offensive like “chick”.
> 
> Then what should we call young women in informal situations?
> 
> Casino


_Gal_ can be offensive like _chick_ in that it doesn't convey a very high degree of respect for women. It's not as bad as _chick_, though.

I think that _girl_ should be avoided unless you are talking about a child. It's always safe to say _young lady_ or _young woman_.


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## perpend

casino said:


> An English-Japanese dictionary says:
> 
> American men call their secretaries or assistants
> “gal” while they call their girlfriends or
> daughters “girl”.
> 
> I do not think that this is true because “gal” is old-fashioned.
> 
> The same dictionary also tells us that “gal” is offensive like “chick”.
> 
> Then what should we call young women in informal situations?
> 
> Casino



I agree with everything merquiades wrote.

I would avoid it in a business situation, but in informal situations, gal is still used.

There is an informal phrase "guys and gals" when you want to address a group of males and females. In the USA, I perceive usage to have shifted to just saying "guys" to address the mixed-group. But, some gals in the group may get upset!


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## Parla

> . . . in informal situations, gal is still used.



I agree with Merquiades and Mack that it is _not_ used anymore.


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## perpend

"gal" and "gals" is still used. 

It's still used in informal contexts.

Why do you not think so, Parla?


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## merquiades

perpend said:


> In the USA, I perceive usage to have shifted to just saying "guys" to address the mixed-group. But, some gals in the group may get upset!



In the expression "you guys", used in some parts of the US as a plural you (west coast, parts of the north), "guys" can be a group of men, a mixed group of people, or even a group of ladies.  Otherwise I think it is just masculine.  Think of someone saying "the guys are coming over."  That's only men.  For women the equivalent is technically "the gals are coming over" but like I said for me it's folksy sounding (not my thing...but for others it could be desirable), so I avoid it and would say "girls, ladies, women".


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## perpend

merquiades said:


> In the expression "you guys", used in some parts of the US as a plural you (west coast, parts of the north), "guys" can be a group of men, a mixed group of people, or even a group of ladies.  Otherwise I think it is just masculine.  Think of someone saying "the guys are coming over."  That's only men.  For women the equivalent is technically "the gals are coming over" but like I said for me it's folksy sounding (not my thing...but for others it could be desirable), so I avoid it and would say "girls, ladies, women".



There's nothing wrong with saying "The gals are coming over."

It's not folksy, it's just informal American English.


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## Parla

> "gal" and "gals" is still used. It's still used in informal contexts. Why do you not think so, Parla?


Because I don't hear anyone use it, either personally or in public statements, nor do I see it in any contemporary writing. Perhaps it remains in limited local use in some parts of the US; there are certainly regional expressions that aren't in general use.


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## Alby84

I have to admit that I did get a chuckle out of this one. I obviously have to agree with the others. Gal is definitely not in general use nowadays. People may use it to sound folksy or it still may enjoy limited usage in certain regions, but I can't even remember the last time I heard it used seriously. Referring to your female secretary as "gal" could land you in hot water these days.


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## perpend

I thought I'd google (in parentheses) another phrase using gals.

"group of gals"
http://www.google.com/#biw=1280&bih...Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=df0814c73f983712

I know google doesn't prove anything, but I do feel that it shows people are using "gal".

Or, maybe it's the company I keep. I do hang with a folksy crowd.


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## casino

Thank you very much, everyone.

Casino


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## london calling

A British viewpoint.These days I would consider _gal_ (coming from a speaker of BE) as a bit of a joke, as it is somewhat old-fashioned. I heard it for the first time in years the other day when watching 'The Iron lady' with Meryl Streep: Mrs. Thatcher uses it. I have never considered it particularly disrespectful in BE, however, although it would be if someone were to call his secretary that: it all depends on the context in which the word is used.

I agree with our American friends  and suggest you throw your dictionary in the rubbish bin, casino.


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## JustKate

perpend said:


> I thought I'd google (in parentheses) another phrase using gals.
> 
> "group of gals"
> http://www.google.com/#biw=1280&bih...Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=df0814c73f983712
> 
> I know google doesn't prove anything, but I do feel that it shows people are using "gal".
> 
> Or, maybe it's the company I keep. I do hang with a folksy crowd.



Of course _gal_ is still in use. Nobody with the tiniest amount of sense has used it to mean "secretary" since about 1974, but it's still used to mean "girl" in significant portions of the U.S., particularly the Southern U.S., and it's used elsewhere in a deliberately folksy way (somewhat as described by london calling) to mean "girl or woman." Google expressions such as "gals' night out" and "guys and gals" you'll see what I mean.

I myself have used it on this very forum. I often use _guys_ to mean "men and women," but I also use _guys and gals_ the same way.

It can be used disrespectfully, of course. Almost anything can. But it isn't inherently disrespectful.


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## Alby84

I think the point people were trying to make is that "gal" is generally  not used commonly these days outside of a few set expressions or to  sound cutesy. I can't imagine any part of the US where this would be  used consistently instead of "girl" by anyone under 65, never mind by a  foreigner learning the language. I would certainly encourage people to  learn what it means, but I'd never call it "common." I'm sure there are  still people who talk about "dames" with nice sets of  "gams" too.


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## JustKate

Alby84 said:


> I think the point people were trying to make is that "gal" is generally  not used commonly these days outside of a few set expressions or to  sound cutesy. I can't imagine any part of the US where this would be  used consistently instead of "girl" by anyone under 65, never mind by a  foreigner learning the language. I would certainly encourage people to  learn what it means, but I'd never call it "common." I'm sure there are  still people who talk about "dames" with nice sets of  "gams" too.



I am sorry to harp on this, but what? You think _gal_ is comparable to _dame_? No, no, no, no, no.

Apparently some of my fellow AmE speakers no longer run across it, but I assure you all that _gal_ is in common use in significant sectors of the U.S. - and not just among people over 65. And not necessarily in a sexist way, either, although as I mentioned above, it certainly can be used in a sexist way. Many things can be sexist or just plain offensive if used in the wrong way, and that includes _boy_.

_Gal_ is simply an informal way to say "girl" or "female person I'm on familiar terms with." That's it. Any other connotation or implication is a result of how it is used or misused. Call your secretary _my gal_ - or _my girl_, for that matter - and you deserve a session with the Human Resources department. You also might need a little talk from the HR folks if you call your assistant _boy_. Call a group of female friends _gals_ and, in regions where this is common, there is no problem.

Non-native speakers need to be careful about using it, of course, but then they have a lot of things that they have to be careful of, don't they? As do we native speakers. It is, as all of us native speakers know, quite easy to make _girl_ offensive too, if you use it under the wrong circumstances.

The problem with _gal_ isn't that it's sexist - it's that it's very casual and familiar. You should therefore not use it with people you are not very casual and familiar with, nor should you use it in situations where casualness and great familiarity aren't appropriate.


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## Alby84

I'll admit the whole sexist thing is being blown out of proportion as you could refer to a woman as just woman (the most common word for a female in the English language) and win a trip to HR. The regions issue has already been covered. Forget the "dames" comparison (admittedly there was some sarcasm at work). Back to the OP's original question:

_Then what should we call young women in informal situations?_

 Is gal a modern equivalent to girl that is used consistently by the majority of English speakers? I would say the answer is no. Is it officially "old-fashioned"? I think that's a tough call. I'll be 29 on Sunday and a lot people on these forums have been speaking English for 30+ years longer than I have, so we're bound to disagree on terms like old-fashioned. I guess it's rather subjective in some cases.

I'll be the last person on these forums telling somehow how they should speak. If you want to use "gal" instead of girl in informal situations with people you know, then by all means, add some flavor to your vocabulary. I'm simply pointing out that this is a word that I do not commonly hear or read anymore on TV or in literature. It is also a word that I do not personally use for those reasons.


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## pob14

I don't think I've heard "gals" (or, God help us, "guys and gals") in years, except when someone was being intentionally retro or ironic.  (I'm much older than 29.)


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## JustKate

pob14 said:


> I don't think I've heard "gals" (or, God help us, "guys and gals") in years, except when someone was being intentionally retro or ironic.  (I'm much older than 29.)



Well, I've used it here on this forum. I'm going to feel all self-conscious about using it now, but it is completely normal for me, so the next time you notice my doing so (and you *will* notice it now, whether you want to or not ), don't think I'm doing it to make a point. I mostly use _guys_ in a non-gender-specific way, but I definitely use _guys and gals_ at times as well.


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## pob14

JustKate said:


> Well, I've used it here on this forum.


I never count this forum when I say "I haven't heard . . . ." because this forum is packed with people with vocabularies the size of Antarctica, and I regularly read words here that I've never seen before.  But I will admit, I hadn't noticed, so maybe it's more common than I'd thought.  Or I just don't pay any attention to JustKate.  


JustKate said:


> I'm going to feel all self-conscious about using it now.


 Good.


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## JustKate

Now I'm going to use it just to be contrary!

But really, I am pretty sure the reason why I sometimes use _guys and gals_ instead of just the non-gender-specific _guys_ (which comes really natural to me) is that there are a reasonable number of women who don't like being called _guys_.


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## merquiades

I couldn't use "guys" for a group of women, but I still wouldn't use "gals" or "dames".  
It sounds like a cowboy movie or a square dance to me, not particularly old-fashioned, but not pertaining to my life.
I do use "girls" a lot.


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## aaronsun666

< I have joined this thread with a previous one.  (Moderator).  >

The Big Bang Theory Season 04 Episode 22

_The two couples are hanging out at Raj's. _

Howard: Nice to see that the gals are getting along.
Leonard: Gals? Who are you, Fred Flintstone?

What's wrong with addressing _girls_ as _gals _?


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## Copyright

"Gals" is pretty old-fashioned for some of us.* Hence, the Fred Flintstone reference. 

_*Actually, I've always disliked the word._


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## roxcyn

It's not.  If I remember correctly, Fred Flintstone would address the women as "gals".

(_Cross post with Copyright_)


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## Florentia52

If the people being referenced are girls (that is, female children), then the only thing wrong with the word "gals" is that it's a bit old-fashioned, at least in AE.

If they are not girls but women, then they may feel the term is diminutive, and may be offended by it, as well as thinking it's old-fashioned.

_[Cross-posted with everyone]_


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## aaronsun666

Thank you,  Copyright, roxcyn, Florentia52.


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## JustKate

The problem with _gals_ isn't so much the word itself as the way Howard uses it. His tone of voice, the sentence he uses it in, everything about it is very patronizing. He isn't using _gals_ as an informal way to say "girls"; he's using _gals_ more the way some men use _chicks_.


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## Sparky Malarky

In case this hasn't been made clear, it used to be common for a man to refer to his secretary as "his girl" and for others in the office to refer to her as "his girl."  

Examples:
You can leave it with my girl.
Copy those letters and take them to Bob's girl.

This was common in the 1950s and 1960s.  _It is no longer acceptable_ although a few older people might make a slip of the tongue and say similar things once in a while now.

Your book says that a secretary was called a *gal* while a daughter would be called a *girl. *  This is ridiculous.  "Gal" was just more informal than "girl."  It might have been equally acceptable in the middle of the last century, but it is not acceptable now.

The only thing I can think of is that the writer of your book was thinking of a *gal Friday.  *A "girl Friday" or "gal Friday" - either expression was used - was a job description, meaning "a female employ who does whatever office jobs are needed."   This expression is not used much anymore either.


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## zaffy

Say I'm among my friends or people I know well. Does this work? 

_Hey *guys and gals*, who feels like having some beer? _


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## Wordy McWordface

zaffy said:


> Say I'm among my friends or people I know well. Does this work?
> 
> _Hey *guys and gals*, who feels like having some beer? _


That's fine as a jokey, informal usage.


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## zaffy

And does 'gal' refer to teenage girls too? How about elderly women?


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## Tegs

It sounds American to me, I doubt anyone would say this in BE.


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## merquiades

zaffy said:


> And does 'gal' refer to teenage girls too? How about elderly women?


No, it would be an adult woman above mid twenties...  Teenage girls are girls.


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## zaffy

If I didn't want to use "gals", would this phrase sound natural?

_Hey *guys and ladies*, who feels like having some beer?_


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## merquiades

No, they don't go together.... it's ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, guys and gals, men and women, lads and lassies...


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## ewie

_Guys and gals_ has unfortunate connotations in BrE for people of a certain age whose memories are working: a certain radio and TV 'personality' named Jimmy Savile used it as a catchphrase. After his death in 2011 it became clear that Savile had been an extremely prolific sex offender for decades (to put it mildly): his name is now a byword for 'predatory pervert'.
I can't imagine any circumstances in which I'd use it here.


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## Wordy McWordface

merquiades said:


> No, they don't go together.... it's ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, guys and gals, men and women, lads and lassies...


... or 'ladettes'


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## Keith Bradford

There are situations where it might still be used in Britain without giving offence, but they are limited to, I think:

A woman talking about a group of close friends: "I'm going out clubbing with the gals on Friday".
A sports captain or coach talking about her team: "The gals are really looking forward to the match on Saturday".
In both cases they're the female equivalent of "lads".  And in both cases I would not want to be dogmatic because this is essentially spoken English and it might just be an idiosyncratic pronunciation of "girls" (which is of course its origin).


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## sound shift

ewie said:


> _Guys and gals_ has unfortunate connotations in BrE for people of a certain age whose memories are working: a certain radio and TV 'personality' named Jimmy Savile used it as a catchphrase. After his death in 2011 it became clear that Savile had been an extremely prolific sex offender for decades (to put it mildly): his name is now a byword for 'predatory pervert'.
> I can't imagine any circumstances in which I'd use it here.


Even before those revelations I didn't use "gals", and I'm even less likely to do so now.


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## Hermione Golightly

I've never heard 'gals' (pronounced like that) used instead of girls. Why would anybody bother to use a US pronunciation? I do hear 'gels', a Cockney and old-style upper-class pronunciation.
Use of 'girl/girls' depends on how close and friendly your relationship is with the people in question.
In what circumstances, I wonder, would a non-native speaker be likely to need familiar terms of address.


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> If I didn't want to use "gals", would this phrase sound natural?
> 
> _Hey *guys and ladies*, who feels like having some beer?_


No.

I'd avoid 'guys and gals.'  In the US it sounds old-fashioned (see #27) and kind of silly.  Women in the US may use 'gal' in reference to their close female friends of similar age, but I doubt that many women under the age of 40 or 50 use it unironically.

'Hey folks' and (I suspect less commonly) 'hey people' are casual, gender-neutral forms of address among beer-drinking friends in the US. 

I think 'hey guys' is gender-neutral too in at least some parts of the US, although it's possible that it's used in a gender-neutral way by woman more than by men.


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