# Norwegian: hadde vært / ville vært



## astri

Is there a difference in meaning or tone in the following sentences?

_Det hadde vært fint å treffe deg igjen.
Det ville vært fint å treffe deg igjen.

Det hadde vært koselig å reise.
Det ville vært koselig å reise.

Det hadde vært hyggelig om han var hjemme i går.
Det ville vært fint om han var hjemme i går._

I'm not certain that these are grammatically correct, but I'm under the impression that _hadde vært_ has more to do with hypothetical and non-realized situations in the past, whereas _ville vært _applies more to the future.


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## Svenke

Interesting question, astri!

I'd say all the sentences may be acceptable, although I'm not sure about the two last ones. I'd prefer
_Det hadde vært hyggelig om han hadde vært hjemme i går.
Det ville vært fint om han hadde vært hjemme i går._
These are counterfactual -- he wasn't at home.
If one still doesn't know, i.e. talking of the future, _var _would be appropriate as in your examples:
_Det hadde vært hyggelig om han var hjemme i dag.
Det ville vært fint om han var hjemme i dag.
_
As to _hadde vært_ and _ville (ha) vært_, I believe they are often interchangeable. Both are used in main (matrix) clauses, but _ville (ha) vært_ sounds bad in 'if'-clauses. Thus, not:
_*Det hadde vært hyggelig om han ville vært hjemme i går.
*Det ville vært fint om han ville vært hjemme i går._

Svenke


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## Ben Jamin

What about this sentence:
_Det ville være hyggelig om han var hjemme i dag._
(This sentence is not counterfactual, it still can happen).


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## Svenke

Ben Jamin said:


> What about this sentence:
> _Det ville være hyggelig om han var hjemme i dag._
> (This sentence is not counterfactual, it still can happen).



That sentence is fine.
Svenke


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## Ben Jamin

Svenke said:


> That sentence is fine.
> Svenke


I have an impression that this construction is getting out of use. If you read texts written today you will find "Det hadde vært hyggelig" in majority of them, used in the same meaning.


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## astri

So if I understand correctly, _det hadde vært_ and _det ville vært_ are interchangeable and can both translate to _it would have been_ (to talk about the past) and _it would be_ (to talk about the future). One can also use _det ville være_ as _it would be._


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## Ben Jamin

astri said:


> So if I understand correctly, _det hadde vært_ and _det ville vært_ are interchangeable and can both translate to _it would have been_ (to talk about the past) and _it would be_ (to talk about the future). One can also use _det ville være_ as _it would be._


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## raumar

Something seems to be missing from Ben's answer, so I can try to answer. Yes, they are interchangeable in these specific contexts, but not always. See Svenke's post #2 - they are not interchangeable in if-clauses. "_Det hadde vært_" can also simply mean "It had been", and "_hadde_" can't be replaced with "_ville_" here.


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## Ben Jamin

raumar said:


> Something seems to be missing from Ben's answer, so I can try to answer. Yes, they are interchangeable in these specific contexts, but not always. See Svenke's post #2 - they are not interchangeable in if-clauses. "_Det hadde vært_" can also simply mean "It had been", and "_hadde_" can't be replaced with "_ville_" here.


Yes, I intended first to answer the question, but I realized that other foreros would do it better, but I was unable to delete the "empty answer", i didn't find a "cancel" function.


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## astri

So the second _hadde vært _here cannot be replaced with_ ville vært _but the first could?

_Det _*hadde vært*_ fint om han _*hadde vært *_hjemme i går._
Det _*ville vært*_ fint om han _*hadde vært*_ hjemme i går.
It *would have* been nice if he *had been *at home yesterday.


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## raumar

That's right! If you replace the second _hadde_ with _ville_, you change the meaning. "_... om han ville vært hjemme i går_" means something like "if he had wanted to be at home yesterday".

In the first part of the sentence, you can also use the same construction as in your English translation: "_Det *ville ha vært* fint..."._


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## astri

Tusen takk!


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