# Why is there a city in Ohio called Toledo?



## Cecilio

Hello everybody. In the USA there a lot of places with a Spanish name, due to the long years of Spanish influence in some areas of North America. But if you look at the map, you can see that the city of Toledo, in Ohio, is quite far away from that area of influence. Why was it called Toledo? (Toledo is the name of a very old and historic Spanish city, in Castilla-La Mancha). I've been trying to find information on the Internet, but it seems that nobody really knows the answer.


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## maxiogee

Wikipedia suggests…
The inhabitants of this joined settlement chose the name Toledo, "but the reason for this choice is buried in a welter of legends.  Others award the honor to Two Stickney, son of the major who quaintly numbered his sons and named his daughters after States. The most popular version attributes the naming to Willard J. Daniels, a merchant, who reputedly suggested Toledo because it 'is easy to pronounce, is pleasant in sound, and there is no other city of that name on the American continent'."
From the Federal Writers' Project - The Ohio Guide - 1940​


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## Cecilio

Thank you, maxiogee. I think I read this article some time ago, but I think it gives the impression thet the whole thing is far from clear. Maybe this is the popular version of the story but there must be others. There must be some Ohians out there who know more about it.


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## maxiogee

Why don't to go to the source?
Don't sit there hoping someone who knows will happen along. 
This page lists a host of email addresses for the city's departments - write to one of them.


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## Cecilio

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Why don't to go to the source?
> Don't sit there hoping someone who knows will happen along.
> This page lists a host of email addresses for the city's departments - write to one of them.



Well, I suppose I could do that, but I don't know if it would work. Can you imagine someone in Toledo's council receiving such a question by e-mail? In any case, if they wanted to give an answer they would need some time to find the right people. And maybe by then, someone in these forums will have provided some interesting information. Who knows? I'll wait and see.


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## Juri

Asking directly is normal and the best for documentary-journalistic work, and for translators the same.
Two months ago,I was not able f.i.to find particulars about an Adriatic fair, organized 1912 in Vienna. I emailed the City council, they sent it to the Museum, and I get all the necessary, photos included, for a interesting article.


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## ireney

In a book I found on-line (a rather old book mind you)  here  it states


> TOLEDO APPEARS.
> when an arrangement for corporate connection was made under the common name of Toledo.*
> 
> *Mr. Andrew Palmer states, that at a conference held at the time of the consolidation of Port Lawrence and Vistula, the matter of the name for the united Towns was discussed, when James Irvine Browne suggested Toledo, and it was adopted. Many other names had been proposed.




I bet if you googled it a bit more you will find other sources too (in case you don't want to follow Maxiogee's excellent suggestion. I mean what do you have to loose? At worst they won't answer you right?)


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## Cecilio

Well, I did all the googling, etc., and I didn't find any acceptable answer to my query. I must admit I did it some time ago, and maybe there's something new about the issue, I'll check. Curiouslñy enough, I started a similar thread about the city of Casablanca, and immediately I got some posts with escellent information. I think the problem here is that I don't think there is one clear explanation for the fact that Toledo is called Toledo. So far we have Mr Daniels and Mr Browne as possible "inventors" of the name, but we don't really know their reasons. For the former, we have this, from Wikipedia (quoted from maxiogee):

The most popular version attributes the naming to Willard J. Daniels, a merchant, who reputedly suggested Toledo because it 'is easy to pronounce, is pleasant in sound, and there is no other city of that name on the American continent

Was it like that? Were names for cities in the USA sometimes chosen following these criteria? I don't know. Maybe it would be interesting to hear  from some people who know something about this issue: How do you name cities when they have no name?

And it's also funny that one of Daniels' arguments was the pronunciation of the word, when in fact Americans pronounce it in a completely different way. In Spanish it is [to'ledo], whereas in English they say more or less   [të’li:dë|].


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## ireney

Well I think you are right!

In  this site  it says among othe things that,



> The choice of the name of Toledo for the new city is shrouded in local legend. Popular versions give credit to a merchant who suggested Toledo because it "is easy to pronounce, is pleasant in sound, and there is no other city of that name on the American continent." Whatever the source, friendly relations with the city of Toledo, Spain, have resulted.


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## Cecilio

Thank you very much, Ireney! You have found some very interesting information.

According to this theory, we have the following steps:

1. There is a city in the USA with no name.
2. Somebody thinks that the name "Toledo" sounds nice, and he makes the proposal.
3. The other people involved in the process accept it.
4. As a consequence, some good relationships between the American Toledo and the Spanish Toledo are established.

And the only reason for this seems to be... phonological!


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## ireney

Well not exactly. In the link I should have given in my first post ( this one  ), it appears there were two neighbouring cities named Vistula and Port Lawrence. When they 'merged' they took the name Toledo (in whichever manner) and the rest is history (yeah I liked the part about the good relations too. If the story about name-choosing stands it's a bit 'funny' to say the least)


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## fenixpollo

Cities in the US were given names according to the whims of the first residents or their founder. In my state, there are cities named after first loves (Salomé), mythical birds (Phoenix), insects (Bumble Bee), graveyards (Tombstone), indigenous tribes (Havasu City), cities in other states (Glendale), cities in other countries (Bagdad), places in other countries (Patagonia), geographical landmarks (Black Canyon City), a founding family (Hayden), minerals (Quartzite), poker playing strategies (Show Low), weather phenomena (Snowflake), religious figures (Saint Johns) and even foods (Ajo).

Conclusion: There is no rhyme or reason "why".  

Cheers!


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## Fernando

Call it "European bias": all is old and has a past, so there is EVER a reason. "Invention" out of the blue is not the "European way".

As an example of how charged the terms are, there is a river called "Guadalix". It is thought that, when saying "río Guadalix" you are saying "river (río in Sp.) River (Guad=river in Arabic) River (Ix= river in Iberic)".

Just a pedantic remark.


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## fenixpollo

Fernando said:
			
		

> Call it "European bias": all is old and has a past, so there is EVER a reason. "Invention" out of the blue is not the "European way".


 One of the greatest strengths (and greatest weaknesses) of the US is that much of our history is characterized by a purposeful break from the past and from tradition, with an emphasis on individual freedom from...  (although one could argue at length about the concepts surrounding the question: "freedom from what?").  In this case, perhaps we have freedom from that European bias.


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## Cecilio

The idea of having new places that you have to invent a new name for is just exciting, and it seems that the people in America dealt with it in different ways, some of them quite imaginative. In Europe, most of the naming process took place many centuries ago, so that there isn't really a living tradition in that sense, apart from the fact that many Eurpeans had to invent names for their colonies, etc.

The Romans are probably the most important source of names, at least in Western Europe. Many times they used names which conveyed a message of optimism: Victoria, Valentia, Placentia, etc. In some cases, the choice was more original. For example, when the Romans conquered the Sabinian city of "Maleventum", in southern Italy, they thought that name was inappropriate (meaning approx. "bad wind"), and they changed it to "Beneventum", as it is still known today (Benevento).


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## danielfranco

Hi, Cecilio. Some cities have their historical preservation societies that are not linked or dependant to the city's management. Often times, because they are run by families or volunteers, they do not have servers or are linked to the Internet, either. But if you can link to the city hall directly, they might be able to get you the address of such society, if it exists.

Personally, I think the only reason why they called it Toledo is because, after travelling who knows how long in a caravan, when they finally broke down and were stranded there, in Ohio, many many many miles away from sunny California, the first settlers looked around and said:

"Holy Toledo!"

And, thus, the town that grew around the site of the caravan break-down became known as Toledo, since the "Holy" part didn't sit too well with the rest of them, that didn't want to be there and would rather be in California, surfing.


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## Cecilio

danielfranco said:
			
		

> Personally, I think the only reason why they called it Toledo is because, after travelling who knows how long in a caravan, when they finally broke down and were stranded there, in Ohio, many many many miles away from sunny California, the first settlers looked around and said:
> 
> "Holy Toledo!"
> 
> And, thus, the town that grew around the site of the caravan break-down became known as Toledo, since the "Holy" part didn't sit too well with the rest of them, that didn't want to be there and would rather be in California, surfing.



Is this a joke? I don't quite get it.


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## .   1

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Why don't to go to the source?
> Don't sit there hoping someone who knows will happen along.
> This page lists a host of email addresses for the city's departments - write to one of them.


I am waiting for them to write back as we don't speak.

.,,


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## danielfranco

Cecilio said:
			
		

> Is this a joke? I don't quite get it.



Yes, it is, and I'm sorry it wasn't funny.
Thus, my blossoming career as a stand-up comedian sputters and falters...


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## fenixpollo

There is an expression of amazement in English: _Holy Toledo!_  It's a synonym of _Holy Cow!_ or _Great Scott!_ or _Oh, my God!_ or _You're kidding!_ 

I think that Dan was joking that they named the town after the expression (in reality, I think it was the other way around).


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## Cecilio

Well, now I more or less understand the joke... I must admit I didn't know the expression "Holy Toledo!". Funnily enough, this expression poses another mystery, because no-one really knows its origin! In this web-page there's some information about it:

http://www.dotoledo.org/gtcvb/history/display.asp?id=6

So we don't know the origin of the name of Toledo and we don't know the origin of the expression "Holy Toledo!".

To complicate things a bit more, I have discovered that in the USA there are at least five more cities called "Toledo". It seems that, according to one of the theories, the name "Toledo" was chosen because it sounded nice and because there was no other Toledo in the USA... There's something wrong here, unless Toledo is actually older than the other cities, which I doubt.


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## ireney

Toledo Illinois (I couldn't find much) but  here  it says



> Toledo—Known as Prairie City until 1874



Toledo Iowa, as it says  here  



> The town was named by the oldest person living in the county, one Mr. Adam Zehrung, who loved Toledo, Ohio near which he once lived and he named the place - TOLEDO



Toledo Oregon ( here ) 



> Toledo is on the homestead of John Graham, a pioneer resident, who immigrated from Ohio. It is said that when the post office was establish in 1868, Joseph D. Graham, a son, was told that he could name the place. He said: "I am homesick for Ohio. We will call this place Toledo."



Toledo Washington 
 This  site informs us that



> The community was named for the riverboat Toledo, which operated here in 1879


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## Cecilio

Thank you for your investigative efforts, Ireney! You're very kind! I've done some research about American place names, I've found a couple of interesting things.

In the following book: H.L. Mencken (1880–1956). _The American Language_. 1921, there is an interesting chapter about American place names, and a classification of the various methods of place-naming applied there. Very interesting indeed. You may read it at Bartleby.com.

Here: http://www.epodunk.com/names/index.html , you can see some of the oddest place names in the USA, including such names as Eclectic (Alabama) and Whynot (North Carolina).


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## maxiogee

I'm surprised that this thread has gotten as far as this and yet no-one has seen fit to mention M*A*S*H.
Corporal Klinger was from Toledo, Ohio as were were regularly informed. Whether this was by accident or design on the part of the script, I don't know. But it is interesting to note that Jamie Farr (who played Klinger) is a Toledan!


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## Cecilio

maxiogee said:


> I'm surprised that this thread has gotten as far as this and yet no-one has seen fit to mention M*A*S*H.
> Corporal Klinger was from Toledo, Ohio as were were regularly informed. Whether this was by accident or design on the part of the script, I don't know. But it is interesting to note that Jamie Farr (who played Klinger) is a Toledan!



I think maybe M*A*S*H is a bit too old for many people in this forum, including me (it was on TV when I was very young, but back then it seemed to me a very old-fashioned series). 

Just one more remark about Toledo. I came across the name of this city quite by chance. There is a beautiful song with that name, "Toledo", composed by Burt Bacarach and sung by Elvis Costello. Listening to it I discovered that there was a Toledo in Ohio. The Spanish Toledo is also mentioned in it, with the expression "that Spanish citadel".

And therefore this thread. "Why is there a city in Ohio called Toledo?"


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