# EN: up to / until



## timalo

Bonjour 
en français "juqu'à" est ulisé sans distinction de temps ou d'espace
ex: je vais jusqu'à la poste et j'attendrai l'ouverture des bureaux jusqu'à 10h
En est il de même en anglais pour "up to", "untill" et "till"?
I have the feeling that "up to" is better link with space than the other 2 words. Am I right?
Thanks

*Moderator note: *multiple threads merged to create this one


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## калина

I would say "up to" when talking about people. Ie - I went up to the woman and asked her for two tickets. However, it sounds strange with things. I would say "I'll go to the post office and will wait until 10am."


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## geostan

je vais jusqu'à la poste

_I'm going as far as the post office._ is what I would say.


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## Chimel

Je crois que les deux sont possibles, selon le contexte.

a) si j'explique le chemin en disant "allez jusqu'à la poste, puis prenez la première rue...", ce sera sans doute "Walk as far as the post office" (ou aussi: "Walk all the way to the post office"?). On veut bien dire: jusque-là et pas plus loin

b) mais en français familier, on dit aussi, par exemple "Je reviens tout de suite, je vais jusqu'à la poste", ce qui signifie en fait simplement "je vais à la poste" (peut-être bien qu'on ira un peu plus loin, c'est une manière de parler). Dans ce cas, il me semble que ce sera "to the post office". "As far as" serait un peu bizarre, non?


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## timalo

merci à tous
mais le sens de ma question est de savoir quelle distinction un anglophone natif fait (ou ne fait)  entre "up to" et "until" vu qu'en français il y a un seul mot "jusqu'à"


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## jann

Here are a few observations (surely not exhaustive):

until + a place 

up to + a duration or other quantity:  I can wait (for) up to 20 minutes (synonym for "as long as" or "as much as")
until + a time: I can wait until 6pm

(Not to be confused with "to wait up" = ne pas se coucher en attendant  quelqu'un ou quelque chose).

For "as far as" or "all the way to" it is generally preferable to use one of those expressions instead of "up to."

If I say "I need to go up to the post office" it means that the post office is somehow "up" compared to my currently location -- perhaps because I will have to go uphill or north to get there, or perhaps because it is located on the 2nd floor and I am currently on the 1st floor, etc.

Remember that we have a family of phrasal verbs that end with "... up to": to walk up to, to go up to, to run up to, etc.  These are all near synonyms of _s'approcher de_.


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## timalo

jann said:


> Here are a few observations (surely not exhaustive):
> 
> until + a place
> 
> up to + a duration or other quantity: I can wait (for) up to 20 minutes (synonym for "as long as" or "as much as")
> until + a time: I can wait until 6pm
> 
> (Not to be confused with "to wait up" = ne pas se coucher en attendant quelqu'un ou quelque chose).
> 
> For "as far as" or "all the way to" it is generally preferable to use one of those expressions instead of "up to."
> 
> If I say "I need to go up to the post office" it means that the post office is somehow "up" compared to my currently location -- perhaps because I will have to go uphill or north to get there, or perhaps because it is located on the 2nd floor and I am currently on the 1st floor, etc.
> 
> Remember that we have a family of phrasal verbs that end with "... up to": to walk up to, to go up to, to run up to, etc. These are all near synonyms of _s'approcher de_.


 
thank you very much
These examples help me to understand clearer the difference between up to and until.
Why did you put a red cross near until + a place?


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## Maître Capello

timalo said:


> Why did you put a red cross near until + a place?


Tout simplement parce que ce n'est pas correct: _until_ ne peut s'employer qu'avec une référence *temporelle*…


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## timalo

Maître Capello said:


> Tout simplement parce que ce n'est pas correct: _until_ ne peut s'employer qu'avec une référence *temporelle*…


 
GREAT!!
j'avais l'intuition que "until" ne pouvait pas  s'employer avec une référence spatiale même si temps et espace sont liés.
I think with so many answers this subject will no longer bother me.
once again thank everybody


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## wally007

j'ai un petit soucis avec  l'utilisation de " jusqu'à " en anglais. car j'ai déjà entendu plusieurs façons différentes de l'exprimer comme : up to / as far as / all the way to / all this way / until

en ce qui concerne " until " je crois avoir plus au moins compris son utilisation :           on utilise plutôt pour exprimer le temps ( du moins je crois )

mais pour les autres je ne vois aucune façon de déterminer lequel serait plus approprié dans une quelconque phrase.

par exemple : nage jusqu'au milieu de la piscine                                     mon essai : swim up to the middle of the pool

-                  va jusqu'au prochain rond-point                                      mon essai : go all the way to the next roundbout



merci


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## Keith Bradford

Your three solutions are all good.

Jusqu'à... (un certain moment) = until
Jusqu'à... (un certain endroit) = up to / as far as / all the way to...
Jusqu'à... (une certaine quantité) = up to / as much as...

Seulement faut-il éviter les non-sens tels que _Je suis allé jusqu'au fond de la vallée : I went up  *down* to the bottom of the valley_.


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## bompart

Could someone help me tell the difference between "until" and "up to" and "to".
On dit jusqu'à en français!
Thank you for your help


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## Keith Bradford

In general, though this is a very inaccurate summary, _to _and _up to _are used for physical distance.
_Until _and _till _always relate to time. P.ex.

The shops are open from now to (until/till) Christmas = d'ici Noël
I can stay until (up to) the 12th = jusqu'au 12 du mois (mais pas plus longtemps)
Walk with me to the station = (jusqu')à la gare (*jamais *_until_)

(If you said "Walk with me *up *to the station", _up _would probably mean _en amont_.  "Monte jusqu'à la gare avec moi.")


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## bompart

Thank you so much!


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## L'Inconnu

'Until' is used to mark a given event or moment in time, generally one in the future. 

"Until _tommorrow_"
"Jusqu'à _demain_"

'Until' also applies to physical locations when arriving at that location is viewed as an event in time. 

"Go straight until _you get to the light_."
"Va tout droit jusqu'a ce que tu arrives au feu."


'Up to', 'down to', and 'back to' mark precise headings either in time or space, but they must precede nouns or adverbs.  On level ground we use either 'up' or 'down' interchangeably, regardless of which direction you are going. We use 'back' if you are heading in the opposite direction that you have already come from. In terms of time, 'up' and 'down' refer to the future, and 'back' refers to the past. 

"Go up/down to _the light_."
"Va jusqu'au feu."

"He had been sleeping peacefully up to _the moment_/_when_/_the moment when_ the telephone rang."
"Il dormait pacifiquement jusqu'au moment où le téléphone a sonné."
"He had been sleeping peacefully until (the moment)/(the moment when) _the telephone rang_."

Notice that 'the moment or 'when' or both these words are required for 'up to'. However, these words are optional with 'until'. 


It dates back to _the time_/_when_...
Ça remonte à l'époque quand...


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