# ２歳, にさい



## Dublabla

> 慰謝料のほか*２歳*の長男の親権や養育費をめぐってトラブルになっていたという。


 
Hi!
This time, my question is about one of the toughest challenge in learning Japanese....that is, "how to read chinese character used in Japan"

I'm always mixed up with reading 'chinese character' used in Japan.
My rough attempt to read *２歳*  is  にさい. But I'm not sure it's right.
 
* 
*


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## Mugi

That's correct - にさい


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## Dublabla

Mugu! Thank you for your verification.


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## Dublabla

Then, three-year-old= san sai, four-year-old=shi sai....along this sort of line??


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## pdmx

Dublabla said:


> four-year-old=shi saiyon-sai


 
also 7 years old is ななさい
8 years old はっさい
10 years old じゅっさい
11 years old じゅういっさい
and a few similar phonetic adjustments but the basic rule is this one.


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## Demurral

and do not forget the "ateji" 二十歳　はたち　^^.


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## Dublabla

Demurral said:


> and do not forget the "ateji" 二十歳　はたち　^^.


 
ateji??? はたち??? It's greek to me.


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## Demurral

Dublabla said:


> ateji??? はたち??? It's greek to me.



 This may be split in a new thread...but I don't know how to do it.

当て字　あてじ . "ateji" is called  to a group of kanji's read in a "forced" way, ignoring both  Chinese and Japanese readings of the compound's kanji's and using the kanji's only to convey a meaning. 二十歳 should be read "にじゅっさい" but for some causes it is an ateji, and it has a special reading: はたち (nooop! I was wrong. Keep reading down until Flaminius post!)


 Hope it helps.


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## Dublabla

Thanks Demurral. It really helps me.


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## Flaminius

Hello,

二十歳 for _hatachi_ is not an _ateji_.  I am not very conversant with the old Japanese numbering system after ten but _hatachi_ must be related to 十重*二十*重, where _hata_ means twenty (the expression itself means [to surround something] tenth and twentieth fold).


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## Aoyama

The explanation about hatachi is very interesting.
About 10 years old, the common pronounciation is _jussai_ but I think that the _correct_ pronounciation should be *jissai*.


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## SpiceMan

じっさい？

hmmm, why?


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## Aoyama

Same as _juppun _(10 mn) being _jippun_ . 
Maybe Flam can answer that.
If I remember well, it is called "soku on bin" in phonetics.


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## pdmx

Hello all

I thought _jissai_ and _jippun_ were Tokyo dialect mispronunciations... (such as _Shinj*i*ku_  instead of _Shinj*u*ku _for 新宿, and the like ???


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## Aoyama

Jissai and jippun have a _tsu _(sorry, no Japanese script here) or geminated consonants (ss, pp), which is not the case with _Shinjuku_ . Shinj*i*ku can be heard, but I don't think it is a matter of _dialect_ (and if somewhere there is something called _Edo ben_, I'm not sure this can be applied to anything called "Tokyo dialect"). It is more a change of vowel in normal speech (i/u).


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