# a stepped pathway



## Nunty

Hello everyone. 

Having received a good push start in French-English with this thread, I am trying to find a colloquial English word or expression that means an outside path up the side of the hill, with steps. Here are two pictures of what I'm talking about. It is part of a complex of archaeological remains that go back to  the Byzantine period and beyond.

What would you call it? This is for a visitors' brochure about the site.

Thanks!


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## Dimcl

Honestly, Sister, I think that "stepped path/pathway" is entirely appropriate.  I've wracked my brain trying to think of a better description and can't.


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## maxiogee

I agree. Stepped pathway is ideal. You might wish to augment it - a stepped pathway, not quite a stairway.


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## Nunty

Thank you, Dimcl. In the meantime, someone else suggested "graded path". What do you think of that?


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## Nunty

Thank you, Maxiogee. We crossed. Since there is confirmation from two continents, I'll go with it.


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## hly2004

My try:
 trails of stone steps


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## winklepicker

_A pathway with steps_?

How silly that English doesn't have a word for this.

Edit: Googling a bit, I think we just say _steps_. Like this. Or Bedruthan Steps - described as _cliff staircase down to the beach. _


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## Nunty

Thank you, hly and winkle.  
How silly that it never occurred to me just to say "steps".

I think that whatever I decide to use will require a small write-around.


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## maxiogee

I would be slow to use 'steps' for a formation where the treads and risers of such steps are not of a uniformity.
There is an implication that steps are regular, whereas stepped doesn't carry that.


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## Nunty

That is a very interesting and pertinent observation, maxiogee. Oh bother. This is getting complicated!


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## winklepicker

maxiogee said:


> I would be slow to use 'steps' for a formation where the treads and risers of such steps are not of a uniformity.
> There is an implication that steps are regular, whereas stepped doesn't carry that.


More complication - I don't see this nuance! _He climbed the uneven steps..._


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## maxiogee

winklepicker said:


> More complication - I don't see this nuance! _He climbed the uneven steps..._


 
Sorry, that sounds like they are ancient and worn down in the middle of the tread.
And - is it 'steps' if one must necessarily step both feet onto the one tread to progress? The distance between some of those risers looks too far to take all of them with alternate feet.


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## winklepicker

maxiogee said:


> The distance between some of those risers looks too far to take all of them with alternate feet.


That depends of course on the length of your legs...


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## Nunty

Boys, boys...!

You both have made very good points. Since this is a site brochure for tourists (see thread opener), I think "steps" will be sufficient, since the blessed things will be right there under their noses!

Thank you. As always, I am pleased and amazed by the effort people invest in answering my silly and banal questions!


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## AngelEyes

Hello Sister,

If you're looking for something a little more descriptive without going overboard on the thing, how about:

_...timeworn rocky steps..._



*AngelEyes*


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## JamesM

How about "a terraced stone path" or "terraced stone steps"?


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## maxiogee

JamesM said:


> How about "a terraced stone path"


 
(putting on Mongomery Burns voice) Exxxcellent!


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## Nunty

Can I say "terraced" in reference to first-century steps? I don't know why not, but it sounds modern to me. *Please* tell me I'm wrong, because James' "terraced stone path" idea sounds really, really good!


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## Joelline

Doesn't the Bible speak of (or at least suggest) terraced villages, vineyards? I don't know if the word "terraced" is specifically used in every version, but I know Isaiah speaks of vineyards on a hill-side (almost impossible without terracing!).


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## Nunty

Joelline, I shall quote you if my client makes a peep!
Thank you, and thanks again to everyone who took the time for this.


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## mgarizona

You might consider 'cobbled' which seems to apply in both senses of the word.

I would suggest "a path of cobbled steps."


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## Tommo

I think 'stepped pathway' is a perfect description.


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## la reine victoria

mgarizona said:


> You might consider 'cobbled' which seems to apply in both senses of the word.
> 
> I would suggest "a path of cobbled steps."


 
I disagree, mgarizona.  "Cobbled" definitely means "made up of rounded stones set in concrete."  OR  "put together hastily".

Poor Sister Claire Edith must be praying for divine guidance by now.  

LRV


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## maxiogee

la reine victoria said:


> Poor Sister Claire Edith must be praying for divine guidance by now.



Nah, the good Sister is just going to dig up the silly steps and have the council put a proper road up the hill!


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## mgarizona

la reine victoria said:


> I disagree, mgarizona. "Cobbled" definitely means "made up of rounded stones set in concrete." OR "put together hastily".
> 
> Poor Sister Claire Edith must be praying for divine guidance by now.
> 
> LRV


 
And I disagree, LRV. I see nothing in any definition of 'cobbled' before me that includes anything about being "set in concrete" nor does the word's other sense necessarily imply 'hastily,' only roughly, 'un-nicely' (if I may).


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## cuchuflete

Perhaps it's yet another AE/BE difference.  The old cobbled streets in NY, Philadelphia and other cities had no mortar or concrete, and the stones were mostly rounded by age and use.


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## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:


> Perhaps it's yet another AE/BE difference.  The old cobbled streets in NY, Philadelphia and other cities had no mortar or concrete, and the stones were mostly rounded by age and use.



HE too then. The cobbles in Dublin were originally laid side-by-side abd aby movement was compensated for by the resultant gaps becoming filled up with dust and detritus. This set solid after a while what with rain and pressure of traffic and people.
Later, when I was young, if the cobbles had to be removed for roadworks and were being re-laid (they often weren't, alas), the gaps were filled with tar, which had a resilience and allowed for 'settlement' to occur. Under normal Irish weather conditions the tar was pretty solid, but on a nice hot summer day, many a lad would poke a stick into the tar and scoop up lumps of it to throw at others.
I remember a long session with my mother and a block of butter - the only remedy she knew for getting it off my skin!!


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## la reine victoria

mgarizona said:


> And I disagree, LRV. I see nothing in any definition of 'cobbled' before me that includes anything about being "set in concrete" nor does the word's other sense necessarily imply 'hastily,' only roughly, 'un-nicely' (if I may).


 
I once excavated the cobbled courtyard of an 11th century monastery in the French Pyrenées. The cobbles were set in mortar (pre-concrete days), in the same way that the Romans set their tesserae in mortar when making mosaics. 

The 11th century cobbles were all carefully-selected, water-worn, round stones from the strand of a river across the way. We collected some for comparison.  

I've heard "cobbled" used in BE to mean something which is made hastily. "A last-minute party invitation sent her rushing off to cobble a dress together."

Perhaps I misused the word "concrete". Sorry.

LRV


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## la reine victoria

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary:



> *cobble sth together - to produce sth quickly and without great care or effort, so that it can be used but is not perfect: The essay was cobbled together from some old notes. The reforms have been very hastily cobbled together.*


 
LRV
 
**


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## mgarizona

Doesn't the citation that reads "very hastily cobbled together" only prove that the word 'cobbled' does not contain, _per se_, the sense of 'hastily'?

The OED and the American Heritage Dictionary define the word with no sense of hurriedness. Simply 'roughness.'

I'll assume it's a BE slant. My AE ears would find both those sample sentences more natural if they read 'thrown together' in place of 'cobbled together.' At least if I wanted to imply 'hastily.'


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## Nunty

Thanks (yet again) to everyone for taking this to heart. 
LRV, have you excavated any first-century terraced stone pathway like this one? What did you call it?


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## DAH

From the photos, I see terraced stairways. The stone steps are definitely quarried rock, not cobbles. In the Western Hemisphere, the Mayan and Incan civilzations were master builders in stone. The Incas quarried megaliths by using a frost or ice wedging technique to split the granite. If you travel in Central and South America, you'll see many pre-Columbia ruins with terraced stairways leading up temples or up to terraced ancient centers, e.g., Sachsayhuaman or Pisac in Peru.


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## Nunty

Thank you, DAH. This is in Jerusalem, not the western hemisphere, but your point is well taken.


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## .   1

We have terraced tracks or paths in Australia.  They are certainly not steps because there is no way to take them step by step.

The pictures shown show me an ancient set of steps.  If they are part of an artificial mound or building I would call them an ancient staircase.

.,,


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## Nunty

Thank you, *.,,* .


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## cirrus

I am surprised at the inference that steps implies something regular. There are any amount of paths up mountains in UK national parks with stone steps which are anything but regular.


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## Nunty

Thank you, cirrus. That is an interesting addition to our WR "body of step knowledge".


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## foxfirebrand

What would we Americans would call a path that incorporated steps, ramps, borders or other limitations or gradations?  Landscaped or groomed.

A landscaped path (or walkway) implies stretches of flat brickwork or flagstone broken by steps or platforms where the terrain makes them necessary.

"Terracing" implies agriculture to me, and possibly most AE speakers.

In parks and other such venues where logs and timbers are used for bordering/steps, the distinction is made between a trail and a _groomed_ trail.
.


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## Nunty

Hi foxfirebrand! I haven't seen you for a while, but probably 'cause I've not had been here that much. 

Your information is interesting and will go into the "step knowledge bank", but I don't think it applies to my first (or at least fifth) century steps. Isn't it amazing how difficult an apparently banal translation can be!


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## foxfirebrand

Yes, the more time has passed, the more translation has to expand into description-- even explanation.

What's the English, no, the _American _English term for an oubliette?  That might take a paragraph, depending on whether it's the kind with a surprise trapdoor.

And given enough centuries, an oubliette might erode into a rather steep "walkway."
.


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## la reine victoria

Nun-Translator said:


> Thanks (yet again) to everyone for taking this to heart.
> LRV, have you excavated any first-century terraced stone pathway like this one? What did you call it?


 
Sorry, Sister Claire Edith,

I've only excavated a short flight of steps leading down to a Roman bath house in London.

I would suggest "a pathway of terraced stone steps". I have seen plenty of ancient examples in places such as Greece and Sardinia.

LRV


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## Nunty

Thank you, Your Highness


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## cirrus

la reine victoria said:


> Sorry, Sister Claire Edith,
> 
> I've only excavated a short flight of steps leading down to a Roman bath house in London.
> 
> I would suggest "a pathway of terraced stone steps". I have seen plenty of ancient examples in places such as Greece and Sardinia.



Sorry to cut in on your undoubted expertise, but looking at the pictures, that's what I'd call a set of stone steps.  As for the description with the original pictures, "stone stepped pathway" sounds way too technical to my ears. My reasoning is this: what would stone steps be if they don't form a path?  The reason for steps to exist is to make a path up steep ground easier, is it not?


Not for the first time I am minded to think that WR is about the joy of language. Do we just love fossicking about the intricacies of idiom?

Good luck with your final choice!


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## .   1

cirrus said:


> Sorry to cut in on your undoubted expertise, but looking at the pictures, that's what I'd call a set of stone steps. As for the description with the original pictures, "stone stepped pathway" sounds way too technical to my ears. My reasoning is this: what would stone steps be if they don't form a path? The reason for steps to exist is to make a path up steep ground easier, is it not?


I agree. A set of stone steps is excellent. Would it be fair to apply Occam's Razor and come to 'stone steps' as the multiple reference to steps would imply an unstated set.




cirrus said:


> Not for the first time I am minded to think that WR is about the joy of language. Do we just love fossicking about the intricacies of idiom?
> 
> Good luck with your final choice!


Our resident picker of winkles comes to my mind.

.,,
It's hard to find an answer until you ask a question.


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## cirrus

Being dim: ¿Occam's razor?  Can you throw some light towards this darkened corner?


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## JamesM

cirrus said:


> Sorry to cut in on your undoubted expertise, but looking at the pictures, that's what I'd call a set of stone steps. As for the description with the original pictures, "stone stepped pathway" sounds way too technical to my ears. My reasoning is this: what would stone steps be if they don't form a path? The reason for steps to exist is to make a path up steep ground easier, is it not?


 
Stone steps can be an architectural feature, indoors or out. Click here for pictures of stone steps that have nothing to do with steep ground, or here, or here. Stone steps works as a generic description but it does not necessarily bring to mind an image of a pathway up steep ground.

For more information on Occam's Razor (or Ockham's Razor), click here.


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## maxiogee

cirrus said:


> My reasoning is this: what would stone steps be if they don't form a path?  The reason for steps to exist is to make a path up steep ground easier, is it not?



The round towers in Ireland, and our few remaining Norman castles, usually have stone steps inside them, they aren't a path, but a stairway. Lighthouses generally have stone steps.


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## cirrus

I agree with your logic if stairs are inside, they aren't a path. However, if they are outside, I am struggling to think when they wouldn't be a path of some sort.


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## maxiogee

I thinks stairs can be external also.
A holiday haunt of mine as a child was set on a sea-cliff about 30 feet above the shore. There was a promenade along the cliff and along the path there were paths down to the rocks and sand below. Some of these were just tracks which people had beaten down over time, finding the best route they could. At one particular place there as a series of cement steps whcih were regular and even, and had a metal bannister along the dangerous side. These were known locally as 'the swimming pool stairs' - as that was were the led to, more or less.

(I'm surprised at how long _this particular_ flight of stairs has turned out to be. )


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## Nunty

In the neighborhoods outlying Jerusalem, which are built on the sides of hills, there are often _stairs_ with a handrail and landings that lead from one street down to another. That's not the case with my "stepped pathway", of course. It's just to show the possibilities.

Yes, maxiogee. Amazing!


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## .   1

The length of this fancy flight may be due to the spiral nature of the components of our method of ambulation.
There seems to be a significant intermingling step from stair to steps.

The Collins cruises thus;
*stair* _n_ *1* one of a flight of stairs. *2* a series of steps: _a narrow stair._ ** *See also *stairs*. [Old English _staeger_; related to_ stig_ narrow path, _stigan_ to ascend, decend, Old Norse _steigurligr_ upright, Middle Dutch_ steiger_ ladder]
*staircase*_n_ a flight of stairs, its suporting framework, and, usually, a handrail or banisters.
*stairhead* _n_ the top of a flight of stairs.
*stairs* pl _n_ a flight of steps leading from one story or level to another, especially indoors
*step* _n_ *11* an object or device that offers support for the foot when ascending or descending. *12* _(pl)_ *steps* a flight of stairs, especially outdoors.

It would appear that stairs sometimes step outside but that stairs always contain a step or two even when they remain indoors.

.,,


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## la reine victoria

There are many results for "stepped pathway" on the internet. Here is just one, from an excavation in Crete. Please scroll down to page 16.

LRV


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## Nunty

I just discovered a new complication in my particular context. It seems that some pilgrims in the Middle Ages (and writers of modern guide books) call them the "Holy Stairs". On the other hand, this may refer to some other holy stairs on the site (which does go back to 1st century). I'll have to ask the author for (more) clarification. Sigh.


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## .   1

That being the case, I would suggest stairs as your readers will be familiar with the term.
Stairs are just a collection of steps.

.,,


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