# запалить



## Interprete

Hello,

A group have done something presumably illegal, and one of them says:
Надо с Белодедовой поговорить, чтобы нюни не распускала. А то запалит всех.

And the subtitle says: we should talk to (her), so that she doesn't fall apart. Otherwise she will betray us.

Is the meaning of запалить really betray? or is it just a translation approximation that suits this specific context?

Thanks.


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## Awwal12

Запали́ть (slangish; cf. also similar спали́ть, and further спали́ться, пали́ться, пали́ть, па́лево, па́левный, беспа́левный etc. with a set of related meanings)  doesn't necessarily mean "to betray smb (consciously)"; it rather means to give out in any possible manner.


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## Vovan

Interprete said:


> Is the meaning of запалить really betray?


No, but "betray" seems to fit all right as a situational equivalent, I guess.

"Запалить" means to do or say something (most often - unintentionally) that reveals someone else's schemes/actions to people who shouldn't know about them. Oftentimes, the doer is part of the group whose secrets are being revealed by him/her.

It is slang. Used even by teenagers:
_По ходу, она нас запалила перед своей матерью. Короче, больше с ней не тусим. (Apparently, she somehow made her mother understand what's going on. No more hanging out with her.)_​
_(Cross-posted.)_


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## loviii

1) For me in Russian "betray" - "предать" - has rather emotional meaning, I'd even say "stilted".

2) "запалить/спалить что-л." means "find out (by watching or thinking) something when someone didn't want you to find it out"
"запалить/спалить кого-л." means "find out (by watching or thinking) something about someone when they didn't want you to find it out"

In your sentence such a meaning looks strange. But maybe the context you're aware of can help you link this definition of "запалить" to your sentence.

Upd.: In my post #11 I crossed off "спалить" from this post.


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## Vovan

*loviii,* these verbs are ergative. They _do_ mean what you've written as well.
_Нас спалили/запалили. Что будем делать, братва?_​


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## Awwal12

loviii said:


> "запалить/спалить кого-л." means "find out (by watching or thinking) something about someone when they didn't want you to find it out"


No. It means "to reveal (that)", but the person who has acquired the knowledge is not specified; it may be the agent himself or the outside parties.


Vovan said:


> *loviii,* these verbs are ergative. They _do_ mean what you've written as well.
> _Нас спалили/запалили. Что будем делать, братва?_


It doesn't seem you understand well what an ergative verb is. To beging with, запалить is obligatory transitive.
However, its meaning may be causative and may be not.


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## Vovan

*Awwal,* yes, I know that "ergative" is not quite right to express what I have in mind. What do you think would be the right term to mean the result of this transformation:
Она нас палит1.  --> Мы палимся (палим2 себя). --> Мы палим2 кого-то еще.


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## Awwal12

Vovan said:


> *Awwal,* yes, I know that "ergative" is not quite right to express what I have in mind. What do you think would be the right term to mean the result of this transformation:
> Она нас палит1.  --> Мы палимся (палим2 себя). --> Мы палим2 кого-то еще.


There is no transformation between 1 and 3 at all, the verb may have identical meanings (and may not have). Moreover, the original verb was запали́ть (~ спали́ть), not пали́ть, and the difference between those is complex (not even solely aspectual; cf. пали́ть "to keep an eye on sth/smb").


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## Vovan

Awwal12 said:


> cf. пали́ть "to keep an eye on sth/smb"


That's what I meant by the index [1].
All those verbs (regardless of the aspect) can mean two different things - almost opposite ones:
Она нас запалила. = 1. Она нас застукала (~увидела). 2. Она нас сдала (~показала).
We also have it in Russian with a more or less synonymous verb "обнаружить".
​


> *1.*  Показать, сделать явным, видимым. _О. свою радость._
> *2.*  Найти, отыскать. _О. пропавшую книгу._


For example, "обнаружить радость" may mean both "to manifest happiness" and "to discover happiness".
So, "Она обнаружила радость" (however artificial the example is) is ambiguous.

I think I've found a piece of theoretical analysis on the problem:





(Е. В. Падучева. Наблюдатель как Экспериент "За кадром".)

And it seems it wouldn't be easy to find a proper simple name for such verbs. So I suggest leaving it at that.


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## Pumpkin spice

The slang meaning of "запалит всех" is "выдаст всех". Russian speakers use these words to describe a situation when someone who committed illegal act has a fear of being "found out". Белодедова was not going to keep this as a secret, so these people want her to promise that she will not expose them/ rat them out.


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## loviii

loviii said:


> 2) "запалить*/спалить* что-л." means "find out (by watching or thinking) something when someone didn't want you to find it out"
> "запалить*/спалить* кого-л." means "find out (by watching or thinking) something about someone when they didn't want you to find it out"


Having read the other opinions, I agree that "спалить" has the broader meaning that was explained in this thread, that's why I crossed it off. But I don't agree that "запалить" has the same broad meaning. For me, "запали" doesn't work in such an example as "Не спали/пали нас".


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## Awwal12

Vovan said:


> All those verbs (regardless of the aspect) can mean two different things - almost opposite ones:
> Она нас запалила. = 1. Она нас застукала (~увидела). 2. Она нас сдала (~показала).


I don't see them as "opposite" at all. The verb implies that the agent causes some hidden part to become revealed. The only difference is in the inherent experiencer (who is it revealed to): in the first case it's the agent itself, and in the second case it's a third party.


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## lena55313

Pumpkin spice said:


> The slang meaning of "запалит всех" is "выдаст всех".


Запалит всех=выдаст всех unintentionally or on stupidity.
Выдаст всех on purpose=заложит всех


Pumpkin spice said:


> Белодедова was not going to keep this as a secret, so these people want her to promise that she will not expose them/ rat them out.


She is not going to reveal their secret at all, but she could do this unintentionaly because of her crying.


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## Interprete

would "give (someone) away be the closest English equivalent?
In that example : We should tell her not to freak out, otherwise she will give everybody away.
What do you think?


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## Pumpkin spice

She is not going to reveal their secret at all, but she could do this unintentionaly because of her crying.
[/QUOTE]

Who is Белодедова, anyway? Is she a woman with emotional instability or she is just caring and honest person? Don't you know? Because I don't have a clue. I am focused on troublemakers and their feeling. But, I do think they want to hold her to her promise not to expose them, because she can bring them more problems in the long run. No matter how she will do it - by accident or deliberately, they cannot fully trust her, there is no doubt about it.


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## Vovan

*Interprete,* yes, "give away" seems to fit. 
But in my opinion, we should look for more idiomatic ways to render this _slang_ word, such as:
_let the cat out of the bag, _​_give the game away,_​_etc._​


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## lena55313

Interprete said:


> We should tell her not to freak out, otherwise she will give everybody away.


I like your interpretation. It conveys the meaning rightly. But I'm not sure about the style. The give away is not a slang word, isn't it? But запалить is a word of  criminal slang. The literal meaning is to set something on fire, i.e. to create conditions wich are dangerous for someone. I'm not sure about the etymology, it's my guess.


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## loviii

lena55313 said:


> But запалить is a word of criminal slang.


It's not criminal slang. It's from the childhood: "_Главное, чтоб училка не запалила_!"



Awwal12 said:


> запалить is obligatory transitive


Since for you "_запалить_" ~ "_спалить_", then it can be intransitive:
_- Куда идешь, вон он палит_!
_- Да я по-тихому, он не спалит_!


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## lena55313

loviii said:


> It's not criminal slang. It's from the childhood


В моем детстве ушастики еще по фене не ботали.


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## Ruukr

Interprete said:


> would "give (someone) away be the closest English equivalent?


 As I remember:
Nix, she thrown us a curve. 
Шухер, она нас спалила.


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