# The sun, the moon & the stars...



## linguist786

Yet another translation people! 
I'd appreciate it if you could have a look again (please!). It's quite easy this time. (Well, I think so!) ..!شكرا

1) I saw the sun. رايت الشمس (ra'aytu 'sh-shamsa)
2) The sun is in the sky. الشمس في السماء (ash-shamsu fi 's-samaa'i)
3) The sun is very hot. الشمس حار جدا (ash-shamsu haarran jiddan)
4) At night, I saw the moon. رايت القمر في الليل (ra'aytu 'l-qamara fi 'l-layli)
5) But the moon is cool. لكن القمر بارد (laakinna 'l-qamaru baariddun)
6) The moon is beautiful. القمر جميل (al-qamara jamiilun)
7) I saw stars with ("alongside") the moon. رايت النجوم مع القمر (ra'aytu 'n-nujuuma ma3a 'l-qamari)
8) The stars are beautiful. النجوم جميله (an-nujuumu jamiilatun)
9) The stars are also in the sky. النجوم أَيْضًا في السماء (an-nujuumu ayDan fi 's-samaa'i)
10) The stars are the beauty of the sky. النجوم حُسْن السماء (an-nujuumu 7usnu 's-samaa'i)
11) The moon is the beauty of the stars. القمر حُسْن النجوم (al-qamaru 7usnu 'n-nujuumi)

!!شكرا جزيلا


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## Whodunit

Okay, let me see. Corrections in green, as you already used red for your words. 



			
				linguist786 said:
			
		

> Yet another translation people!
> I'd appreciate it if you could have a look again (please!). It's quite easy this time. (Well, I think so!) ..!شكرا
> 
> 1) I saw the sun. رأيت الشمس (ra2aytu 'sh-shamsa)
> 2) The sun is in the sky. الشمس في السماء (ash-shamsu fi 's-samaa2i)
> 3) The sun is very hot. الشمس حارة جدا (ash-shamsu 7aarratun jiddan)
> 4) At night, I saw the moon. رأيت القمر في الليلة (ra2aytu 'l-qamara fi 'l-laylati)
> 5) But the moon is cool. لكن القمر بارد (laakinna 'l-qamara baariddun)
> 6) The moon is beautiful. القمر جميل (al-qamaru jamiilun)
> 7) I saw stars with ("alongside") the moon. رأيت النجوم مع القمر (ra2aytu 'n-nujuuma ma3a 'l-qamari)
> 8) The stars are beautiful. النجوم جميلة (an-nujuumu jamiilatun)
> 9) The stars are also in the sky. النجوم في السماء أَيضًا (an-nujuumu fi 's-samaa2i ayDan)
> 10) The stars are the beauty of the sky. النجوم حُسْن/جمال السماء (an-nujuumu 7usnu/jamaalu 's-samaa2i)
> 11) The moon is the beauty of the stars. القمر حُسْن النجوم (al-qamaru 7usnu 'n-nujuumi)
> 
> !!شكرا جزيلا


 
Great job, indeed. 

I may not have found every mistake, but after some googling, My grammar tells ne that "sun" is feminine and "qamar" must be masculine. But I find very strange results on Google, so let's wait for the natives.

I have three questions for the natives:

1. Does 7aar work for "hot" here or should it be saakhin?
2. Does laila sound better than lail for "night"?
3. Would you use jamaal or 7usn for beauty?

Thank you in advance.


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## abusaf

As for "by night", I'd say,بالليل but you can also say ليلا


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## Josh_

Whodunit said:
			
		

> 1. Does 7aar work for "hot" here or should it be saakhin?
> 2. Does laila sound better than lail for "night"?
> 3. Would you use jamaal or 7usn for beauty?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


7aara would be used for the sun, like it would for weather. 

Both 7usn and jamaal can be used, but I would personally choose jamaal in the context of the sentence as 7usn has a connotation of superiority.

But we can wait for the natives.


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## Josh_

linguist786 said:
			
		

> 7) I saw stars with ("alongside") the moon. رايت النجوم مع القمر (ra'aytu 'n-nujuuma ma3a 'l-qamari)


If you wanted to give the idea of seeing the stars alongside the moon you could use بجانب  :

رأيت النجوم بجانب القمر

ra2eetu an-nujuuma bijaanibi al-qamari


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## cherine

very good translation Linguist and very good correction Whodunit Bravo guys 



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> ... My grammar tells ne that "sun" is feminine and "qamar" must be masculine. But I find very strange results on Google, so let's wait for the natives.


I don't know what Google gives, but in Arabic the sun الشمس is feminine and the moon القمر is masculin .



> 1. Does 7aar work for "hot" here or should it be saakhin?
> 2. Does laila sound better than lail for "night"?
> 3. Would you use jamaal or 7usn for beauty?


1- I think both are ok.
2- When we speak of day vs. night, as a length of time we say yawm/laila, but as a "moment" or day-time/night-time, we have Sabaa7 vs. masaa2 or vs. layl (I'm not very sure I'm clear here, but I hope you can "sense" the difference)
3- both jamaal and 7usn express beauty.
BUT... in this context, the word that's mostly used is ziina زينة and you'll find this same meaning in the Qur'an :

إنّا زَيَّـنـْا السماءَ الدُّنيا بزينة الكواكب (الصافات، 6)
أَفَلَمْ ينظروا إلى السماءِ فوقهم كيف بنيناها وزَيّـَناها (ق، 6)
وَزَيَّـنـَّا السماءَ الدنيا بمصابيح (الملك، 5)​
In general, the word ziina means "decoration", but doesn't this give the same connotation as beauty ? 



			
				Josh said:
			
		

> [B said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> linguist786[/B]]
> _7) I saw stars with ("alongside") the moon. رايت النجوم مع القمر (ra'aytu 'n-nujuuma ma3a 'l-qamari)_
> 
> 
> 
> If you wanted to give the idea of seeing the stars alongside the moon you could use بجانب :
> رأيت النجوم بجانب القمر
> ra2eetu an-nujuuma bijaanibi al-qamari
Click to expand...

Ok, with or alongside give مع and بجانب but don't forget that there's something simpler and more used : which is the simple "waw"  رأيت النجوم والقمر or, you can say "the stars around the moon" رأيت النجوم حول القمر


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## linguist786

Thanks guys!! Mucho appreciado encore une fois! 
Just something to cherine - the translations were given to me in Urdu (as they always are lol..) and the word he used for beauty in Urdu was "zeenat". Just thought I'd mention that.


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## cherine

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Just something to cherine - the translations were given to me in Urdu (as they always are lol..) and the word he used for beauty in Urdu was "zeenat". Just thought I'd mention that.


You mean it's not you who've done this translation ?! [disappointement] 
Well, so here we have another common word between Arabic and Urdu  zeenat زينة and of course, as usual, Urdu pronounces the final taa2 marbuuTa as a regular taa2


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## Whodunit

cherine said:
			
		

> You mean it's not you who've done this translation ?! [disappointement]


 
That's not how I understand it. I think he got the original sentences in Urdu and had to translate them into Arabic. But in order to be understood here, he had to translate the Urdu sentences into English. 



> Well, so here we have another common word between Arabic and Urdu  zeenat زينة and of course, as usual, Urdu pronounces the final taa2 marbuuTa as a regular taa2


 
This is something I always wanted to mention: Linguist, we will always correct a final taa2 marbuTa (would you call an inner taa2 marbuTa the same, Cherine?), otherwise it can be misleading if you just write a simple haa (= his). You should either install an Arabic keyboard or use the character map.


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## cherine

Whodunit said:
			
		

> That's not how I understand it. I think he got the original sentences in Urdu and had to translate them into Arabic. But in order to be understood here, he had to translate the Urdu sentences into English.


If so, fine  (kidding) I'm sure Linguist did an effort.



> This is something I always wanted to mention: Linguist, we will always correct a final taa2 marbuTa (would you call an inner taa2 marbuTa the same, Cherine?), otherwise it can be misleading if you just write a simple haa (= his). You should either install an Arabic keyboard or use the character map.


This letter ت is called a taa2, and we add the word "marbuTa" to it to distinguish between the tow forms ت - ـة. 
Just as the difference between the haa2 هـ and the haa2 marbuTa ـه . There is a big difference, though, between the haa2 marbuTa and the taa2 marbuTa, although not verybody notices this


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## Josh_

cherine said:
			
		

> This letter ت is called a taa2, and we add the word "marbuTa" to it to distinguish between the tow forms ت - ـة.
> Just as the difference between the haa2 هـ and the haa2 marbuTa ـه . There is a big difference, though, between the haa2 marbuTa and the taa2 marbuTa, although not verybody notices this


Is there really such a thing as a haa marbuuTa? The 'taa marbuuTa' is so co-called because it resemebles a ت that is tied up (marbuuTa means tied after all) like a فيونكة .  When a suffix is added the ة tufakku  (if you will) and becomes a normal ت .  That it is two dots above the haa is incidental.


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## cherine

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> Is there really such a thing as a haa marbuuTa? The 'taa marbuuTa' is so co-called because it resemebles a ت that is tied up (marbuuTa means tied after all) like a فيونكة . When a suffix is added the ة tufakku  (if you will) and becomes a normal ت . That it is two dots above the haa is incidental.


Yes Josh, there is such thing as a Haa2 marbuTa  why wouldn't there be ? and what do you call the haa2 in those words : شاه - شِفاه - تميُّه ... maybe the adjective marbuTa is not very technical, but it remains the name we gave to these two letters when they come at the end of words to differentiate between there two forms.
The two dots above the haa2 are not incidental because :
1- the letter haa2 هـ doesn't take dots
2- the dots are the mark of a "taa2" ـة - ت


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## Josh_

cherine said:
			
		

> Yes Josh, there is such thing as a Haa2 marbuTa  why wouldn't there be ? and what do you call the haa2 in those words : شاه - شِفاه - تميُّه ... maybe the adjective marbuTa is not very technical, but it remains the name we gave to these two letters when they come at the end of words to differentiate between there two forms.
> The two dots above the haa2 are not incidental because :
> 1- the letter haa2 هـ doesn't take dots
> 2- the dots are the mark of a "taa2" ـة - ت


That's interesting, I've never heard that before. I just call the haa in those words haa, or sometimes, haa nihaa2iyya. Also, two of those words you listed have haa in isolation ه -- is haa marbuuTa just the term used for the position of the haa, or when it looks like this -- ـه ? 

You are right, the haa has no dots, because the haa and taa marbuuta are two separate letters -- that's what I meant by it being incidental. It seemed to me that you were applying the concept of the taa tarbuuTa to the letter haa itself. marbuuta means tied, right? Look at the shape of the taa ت -- it looks like a half circle, or a circle undone, right. look at the haa ه -- it looks like a circle. When you put the dots on it, it looks like a taa that has had its two ends connected (or tied -- hence the name taa2 marbuuTa). The beginning haa هـ and the final ــه have similar shapes -- both circular. 

I have another question.  If that is so about haa marbuuTa is it applied to other letters as well?:

3een marbuuTa -- ـع 
gheen marbuuTa -- ـغ


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## cherine

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> That's interesting, I've never heard that before. I just call the haa in those words haa, or sometimes, haa nihaa2iyya. Also, two of those words you listed have haa in isolation ه -- is haa marbuuTa just the term used for the position of the haa, or when it looks like this -- ـه ?


It's the form. And this is the name we've learnt at school, that's why I said that I may be something not very technical or academic, but that how we learned it  
And I think this also answers your next paragraph 


> It seemed to me that you were applying the concept of the taa tarbuuTa to the letter haa itself. marbuuta means tied, right? Look at the shape of the taa ت -- it looks like a half circle, or a circle undone, right. look at the haa ه -- it looks like a circle. When you put the dots on it, it looks like a taa that has had its two ends connected (or tied -- hence the name taa2 marbuuTa). The beginning haa هـ and the final ــه have similar shapes -- both circular.


I think that whoever "invented" the adjective MarbuuTa for the taa2 has meant to differentiate between the final taa2 ت  and this final taa2 ـة 
Believe or not, some educated people make the silly mistake of mixing between them (I say this because I've been reading this morning a text written by a university teacher   who ends the verbs with a taa2 marbuTa instead of the maftuu7a !!!!
But things like this happen, right ?  




> I have another question. If that is so about haa marbuuTa is it applied to other letters as well?:
> 
> 3een marbuuTa -- ـع
> gheen marbuuTa -- ـغ


As for your last question, the answer is no. We say the adjective "marbuTa" for the taa2 and haa2 only.
Unless, of course, is someone else has a different answer


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## linguist786

cherine said:
			
		

> You mean it's not you who've done this translation ?! [disappointement]


haha.. no!! As Dani pointed out, they were originally given to me in Urdu (by the _teacher_) and we had to translate them into Arabic.
I think it's great I get taught in Urdu - my Urdu gets brushed up too  and it's more logical to translate into Urdu (than English) because it's more similar to Arabic.. I actually struggle to find the correct words sometimes in English too.


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## elroy

A few quick comments:

One tiny addition to Whodunit's correction of the original transliterations: In sentence #5, it's just baaridun, with one "d."

In sentence #3, it's definitely في الليل and not في الليلة, which means "in the one, particular night." Abusaf, why do you say بالليل? I'm fairly certain the correct preposition here would be في. 

Josh, a small correction to your Egyptian-influenced transliteration :



> ra2aytu 'n-nujuuma bijaanibi 'l-qamari


 
Whodunit, there is no such thing as an "inner taa marbuuta." A "taa marbuuta" is always found at the end of a word.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> One tiny addition to Whodunit's correction of the original transliterations: In sentence #5, it's just baaridun, with one "d."


 
Oops, I missed that mistake. 

Thanks for pointing it out.



> In sentence #3, it's definitely في الليل and not في الليلة, which means "in the one, particular night." Abusaf, why do you say بالليل? I'm fairly certain the correct preposition here would be في.


 
Ok. I was about to suggest ليلا (laylan), which would have been a much better correction, I guess.



> Whodunit, there is no such thing as an "inner taa marbuuta." A "taa marbuuta" is always found at the end of a word.


 
I know. A taa2 marbuuTa in the middle of a word becomes a normal taa2. but I thought there was a better word for it:

معلمتي (mu3allimatii - my female teacher)


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## cherine

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Ok. I was about to suggest ليلا (laylan), which would have been a much better correction, I guess.


Yes, I like ليلاً  too 


> A taa2 marbuuTa in the middle of a word becomes a normal taa2. but I thought there was a better word for it:
> معلمتي (mu3allimatii - my female teacher)


This is going from the end to the beginning. I mean : it's the taa2 that becomes marbuuTa at the end of some words  
The taa2 is the الأصل and the taa2 marbuuTa is the فرع (branch or derivative).


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## linguist786

Thanks again people. Reading all your posts helps me to learn too


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