# You And I ??



## Carito_Honey

he escuchado mucho en las canciones decir You and I ??? cuando se puede usar esO??? y cual seria la diferencia con el You and me??? o la primera esta mal escrita??? ! ayudenme a sacarme de dudas!


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## Herenia

fijate que yo también tengo dudas con eso..tal vez se refiera a que "you and I" sea más formal que la otra frase ... pero no te quiero mentir porque no estoy segura. Sorry!


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## blancalaw

You and I es correcto, pero siempre se usa "I" cuando es el sujecto de una frase, y "me" cuando es un objeto de una preposicion.

You and I are good friends = Tú y yo somos buenos amigos.
She gave it to you and me = Ella me lo dio a ti y a mí.

Mal dicho:
You and me are good friends.
Me and Billy are going to the movies tonight.
Es mal escrito pero desafortunadamente se usa mucho.


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## Carito_Honey

si , suponia que deberia estar mal escrito , y que hay con lo de FOR EVER YOU AND ME ? OR FOR EVER YOU AND I? por cierto for ever va junto ?? o separado ?


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## blancalaw

Como mencionado antes, you and me se dice, y es correcto segun el contexto.  En respeto a las letras de canciones, no se tiene que seguir las reglas de la lengua.


> y que hay con lo de FOR EVER YOU AND ME ? OR FOR EVER YOU AND I?


¿En que contexto quieres decir esto?


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## Carito_Honey

por ejemplo cuando uno dice en español : SEREMOS SIEMPRE AMIGAS , POR SIEMPRE TU Y YO
como traduciria al ingles?


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## Herenia

...en las canciones ni te fijes como dicen las palabras porque se dicen muchos barbarismo, tal vez para que puedan rimar...  igual  estan las canciones en español ...


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## blancalaw

We will always be friends, always you and me.

Para mi eso suena mejor.

Otro ejemplo que quizás te ayudará:  Cuando estaba en Argentina, golpé una puerta y la persona adentro me preguntó "¿quien es?"  En ingles respondemos con "me", por eso dije en español "mí".  Ella abrió la puerta y me explicó que en español no se dice "mí", se dice "yo".

Tambien si alguien nos dice "I want you to come with me." "Quiero que vayas conmigo" We respond with "who, me?"  "Quien, yo?"  Creo que es la unica vez que está al revez de español.


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## Carito_Honey

ya entiendo mejor !


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## jdenson

"We will always be friends, always you and me."
To many people the above sentence sounds perfectly ok, but many people also say things like "he gave it to him and I". The correct English is "we will always be friends, always you and I" and "he gave it to him and me". (But songs are not written to teach grammar.)


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## gvergara

jdenson said:
			
		

> "We will always be friends, always you and me."
> To many people the above sentence sounds perfectly ok, but many people also say things like "he gave it to him and I". The correct English is "we will always be friends, always you and I" and "he gave it to him and me". (But songs are not written to teach grammar.)


 
I agree, because _you and I_ is like an extension of the subject _we_. But I could bet that the following sentence is correct: _Our mother will always love us, my brothers and me_, as it is an extension of the object _us_. See you

Gonzalo


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## blancalaw

yes, in summary, it all depends on whether the word is a subject or object.  Subject = yo, object = mí.


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## deadimp

I also had a problem similar to this. I wanted to know which case to use when using comparisons in Spanish (más que)...
For example, in casual American English, a person would say:
> He has more money than *me*.
Even though the correct term is:
> He has more money than *I*.
My teacher told me that in Spanish, you would literally translate according to the second example (see what the previous posts have stated), not the first:
> Él tiene más dinero que *yo* (no *mí*)
These cases and others like them are simply forms of slang, comparable to the case of the dreaded contraction, ex. "What's it like", which could be either "What is it like", or "What does it like".
Simply put, most native English speakers (including myself) don't even speak the language correctly anymore.


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## blancalaw

> I also had a problem similar to this. I wanted to know which case to use when using comparisons in Spanish (más que)...
> For example, in casual American English, a person would say:
> > He has more money than me.
> Even though the correct term is:
> > He has more money than I.
> My teacher told me that in Spanish, you would literally translate according to the second example (see what the previous posts have stated), not the first:
> > Él tiene más dinero que yo (no mí)
> These cases and others like them are simply forms of slang, comparable to the case of the dreaded contraction, ex. "What's it like", which could be either "What is it like", or "What does it like".
> Simply put, most native English speakers (including myself) don't even speak the language correctly anymore.



Thinking of this, it is true that as native speakers we often make errors that sound right.  I often wonder if I have better grammar in Spanish (my second language) than English.


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## Carito_Honey

Yo aprendi muy bien la gramatica española en mi secundaria , es por eso que a veces el ingles me trae dudas , porque no es exactamente el transla en english . Gracias a todos ustedes ! cualquier cosa me escriben


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## gvergara

deadimp said:
			
		

> I also had a problem similar to this. I wanted to know which case to use when using comparisons in Spanish (más que)...
> For example, in casual American English, a person would say:
> > He has more money than *me*.
> Even though the correct term is:
> > He has more money than *I*.
> My teacher told me that in Spanish, you would literally translate according to the second example (see what the previous posts have stated), not the first:
> > Él tiene más dinero que *yo* (no *mí*)
> These cases and others like them are simply forms of slang, comparable to the case of the dreaded contraction, ex. "What's it like", which could be either "What is it like", or "What does it like".
> Simply put, most native English speakers (including myself) don't even speak the language correctly anymore.


 
Hi: 
The same thing happens to me: I seem to know more about English, German or French grammar than Spanish grammar. That's why I can tell you that what you think is a wrong but widely accepted sentence (_He has more money than *me*) _is actually a correct sentence from the grammatical point of view. As a matter of fact you have two choices: 
1) He has more money than *me*.
2) He has more money than *I have*.
So, when you repeat or add a verb you have to use a personal pronoun, otherwise you have to use the object pronouns (don't know if that's the right name) You also have a third option, namely 
3) _He has more money than *I*_.
, but, according to grammar books, it sounds old-fashioned and learners are discouraged from using it in spoken or everyday English.
As to the original question, the right sentence is _Él tiene más dinero que yo_, as it is an extension of the subject. See you, 

Gonzalo


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## esteban

Would you say that "You an I" is used when it is followed by a _verb_ (or when it _could_ be followed by a _verb_), otherwise "You and me" is used instead? 

Example:

Who brought the bottle of wine? _You and I_. (_brought_ _the bottle of wine_)
At whom are they laughing? At _you and me_.

Is that correct?


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## gvergara

esteban said:
			
		

> Would you say that "You an I" is used when it is followed by a _verb_ (or when it _could_ be followed by a _verb_), otherwise "You and me" is used instead?
> 
> Example:
> 
> Who brought the bottle of wine? _You and I_. (_brought_ _the bottle of wine_)
> At whom are they laughing? At _you and me_.
> 
> Is that correct?


 
That's correct. The personal pronouns (I/you/(s)he, etc) must be used when they are the subject of a sentence, otherwise (object or after a perposition) the object pronouns (me/you/him, etc) have to be used. See you

Gonzalo


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## esteban

gvergara said:
			
		

> That's correct. The personal pronouns (I/you/(s)he, etc) must be used when they are the subject of a sentence, otherwise (object or after a perposition) the object pronouns (me/you/him, etc) have to be used. See you
> 
> Gonzalo


 
!Gracias por tu respuesta!


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## gvergara

esteban said:
			
		

> !Gracias por tu respuesta!


 
De nada. Nos vemos

Gonzalo


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## jdenson

gvergara said:
			
		

> Hi:
> The same thing happens to me: I seem to know more about English, German or French grammar than Spanish grammar. That's why I can tell you that what you think is a wrong but widely accepted sentence (_He has more money than *me*) _is actually a correct sentence from the grammatical point of view.
> 
> Widely accepted, but still *wrong*. "He has more money than me" is just as wrong as "él tiene más dinero que mí” and for exactly the same reason.
> He has more money than I (do).
> I have more money than he (does)
> She has more money than they (do).
> They have more money than she (does).
> We have more money than you (do).
> You have more money than we (do).
> etc.
> 
> As always, you can say and write whatever you like if it doesn’t matter what your listeners or readers think about you.


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## Carito_Honey

ya me confundi que es un subject y un object ! please ejemplos :$ ...It's embarrising!


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## blancalaw

Subject o subjeto es la palabra que hace la accion en la frase.

*Yo* le doy el auto a ti.

Object o objecto es la palabra que recibe la accion.

Yo te doy el auto a *ti*.


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## gvergara

jdenson said:
			
		

> gvergara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi:
> The same thing happens to me: I seem to know more about English, German or French grammar than Spanish grammar. That's why I can tell you that what you think is a wrong but widely accepted sentence (_He has more money than *me*) _is actually a correct sentence from the grammatical point of view.
> 
> Widely accepted, but still *wrong*. "He has more money than me" is just as wrong as "él tiene más dinero que mí” and for exactly the same reason.
> He has more money than I (do).
> I have more money than he (does)
> She has more money than they (do).
> They have more money than she (does).
> We have more money than you (do).
> You have more money than we (do).
> etc.
> 
> As always, you can say and write whatever you like if it doesn’t matter what your listeners or readers think about you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi:
> I don't mean to disturb you, but I stick to what I said about the pronouns which must be used after _than_. I've pulled out my grammar books and this is what I've found:
> 
> 1) _As_ and _than_ are undoubtedly conjuntions, linking equal units. But the question is whether they can also be prepositions when they are followed by just a pronoun. If so, the pronoun should be objective: _as fat as *him*_, _older than *her*_. For formal writing you may treat _as_ and _than_ as conjunctions, and decide which case to use according to whether the pronoun would be objective or subjective in the equivalent clauses: _She is as fat as *he *(is); They treat their children more casually than *we* (do)._ But since the subjective pronoun in these sentences sounds pedantic to many, it is better to use the clause instead: _They treat their childrenm more casualy than *we do*_....
> *Source: Longman Guide to English Usage by Sydney Greenbaum and Janet Whitcut*
> 
> 
> 2) _*Than *is used to link two halves of comparisons or contrasts (e.g. Jack is taller than Jill // I am wiser now than I was at that time). Care must be taken with pronouns following *than*. The general rule is to remember the missing verb (e.g. You are older than I (am)) If there is no obvious implied verb, the object form follows (Rather you than *me*!) However, the form that is considered correct by careful users sometimes sounds stilted: *She runs faster then he* is correct, but *She runs faster than him is more frequently used* (and natural). *She runs faster than he does* is both correct and natural-sounding._
> *Source: Bloomsbury Good Word Guide. Edited by Martin H. Manser*
> 
> 
> 3) _a) I'm older than my brother (is)._
> _b) I'm older than *he is*._
> _c) I'm older than *him*. (informal)_
> 
> _In formal English, a subject ponoun (e.g. *he*) follows *than*, as in (b). In everyday, informal spoken English, an object pronoun (e.g. *him*) often follows *than*, as in (c)._
> *Source: Fundamentals of Engl¡sh grammar by Betty Schrampfer Azar*
> 
> 
> 4) _We usually say: _
> _You are taller than *me* (not "*than I*") // He is not as clever as *her* (not "*as* *she*")_
> _After *than/as* it is more usual to say *him/her/them us* when there is no verb. Compare:_
> _You are taller than *I am*., but You are taller than *me*._
> _They have more money than *we have*., but they have more money than *us*._
> _I can't run as fast as *he can*., but I can't run as fast as *him*._
> *Source: English Gramar in Use by Raymond Murphy*
> 
> 
> As you can see, what I said was right, and at best you can say that _than I_ is correct but stilted. See you
> 
> Gonzalo
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## jdenson

gvergara said:
			
		

> jdenson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi:
> I don't mean to disturb you, but I stick to what I said about the pronouns which must be used after _than_. I've pulled out my grammar books and this is what I've found:
> 
> 
> 
> Gonzalo
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Gonzalo,
> You’re not disturbing me in the least. The purpose of this forum is to allow people who care about language to exchange ideas; we don’t have to agree. There’s no doubt that “he is taller than me” is more common than “he is taller than I”, but is that reason enough to say it? For me the answer is an emphatic “no”. There being no grammatical basis for “he is taller than me”, the sources which you quote justify its use by saying (correctly) that “he is taller than I” sounds pedantic to many, and “the form that is considered correct by careful users sometimes sounds stilted”. To many people, any usage not commonly employed by small children sounds pedantic or stilted, but are we to let those people tell us how we must talk and write?
> 
> Best wishes,
> John
Click to expand...


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## Carito_Honey

so... He is taller than me ?? or He is taller than I??
You are confused more than before... I'm really sorry


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## gvergara

jdenson said:
			
		

> gvergara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Gonzalo,
> You’re not disturbing me in the least. The purpose of this forum is to allow people who care about language to exchange ideas; we don’t have to agree. There’s no doubt that “he is taller than me” is more common than “he is taller than I”, but is that reason enough to say it? For me the answer is an emphatic “no”. There being no grammatical basis for “he is taller than me”, the sources which you quote justify its use by saying (correctly) that “he is taller than I” sounds pedantic to many, and “the form that is considered correct by careful users sometimes sounds stilted”. To many people, any usage not commonly employed by small children sounds pedantic or stilted, but are we to let those people tell us how we must talk and write?
> 
> Best wishes,
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John:
> I may be stubborn, but there _is _a grammatical basis which justifies the correctness of _He is taller than me_. If you look up the word _than_ in a good dictionary, you'll see that it can fulfil two functions: conjunction and preposition. As you may well know a conjunction (except for all three linking conjunctions _and_, _or_ and _but_) introduces a so-called clause or, informally, subordinate sentence. A clause is a dependent sentence, unable to stand alone syntactically as a complete sentence, the minimum and crucial requirement of which is the existence of a verb (_verb phrase_) For example, _Although I'm not hungry_ is a clause: it has a verb but cannot stand alone: it must depend on a main sentence, for instance _Although I'm not hungry, I'll eat up this apple_. Therefore, _He is taller than I am_ is correct from the grammatical point of view, as it consists of a main sentence (_He is taller_), and a clause, dependent from the main sentence and which is complete in itself (subordinative conjunction _than; _subject _I;_ verb _am_) but makes no sense if it stands alone (_than I am_). As a preposition, it can determine, among others, a pronoun. As with all the other prepositions, when this is the case, the pronoun that follows _than_ must adopt the "object" form, that is_ me, him, her_, etc. (just like you say for me, to him, to her, with us, against them), which completely justifies the correctness of _He is taller than me_. As you see, it's not a matter of some grammarians' caprice, not in this case, at least. See you
> 
> Gonzalo
Click to expand...


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## jdenson

gvergara said:
			
		

> jdenson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John:
> I may be stubborn, but there _is _a grammatical basis which justifies the correctness of _He is taller than me_. If you look up the word _than_ in a good dictionary, you'll see that it can fulfil two functions: conjunction and preposition. As you may well know a conjunction (except for all three linking conjunctions _and_, _or_ and _but_) introduces a so-called clause or, informally, subordinate sentence. A clause is a dependent sentence, unable to stand alone syntactically as a complete sentence, the minimum and crucial requirement of which is the existence of a verb (_verb phrase_) For example, _Although I'm not hungry_ is a clause: it has a verb but cannot stand alone: it must depend on a main sentence, for instance _Although I'm not hungry, I'll eat up this apple_. Therefore, _He is taller than I am_ is correct from the grammatical point of view, as it consists of a main sentence (_He is taller_), and a clause, dependent from the main sentence and which is complete in itself (subordinative conjunction _than; _subject _I;_ verb _am_) but makes no sense if it stands alone (_than I am_). As a preposition, it can determine, among others, a pronoun. As with all the other prepositions, when this is the case, the pronoun that follows _than_ must adopt the "object" form, that is_ me, him, her_, etc. (just like you say for me, to him, to her, with us, against them), which completely justifies the correctness of _He is taller than me_. As you see, it's not a matter of some grammarians' caprice, not in this case, at least. See you
> 
> Gonzalo
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Gonzalo,
> Stubborn? I prefer to say that we have the strength of our convictions.
> 
> From the American Heritage Dictionary -
> "Since the 18th century grammarians have insisted that _than_ should be regarded as a conjunction in all its uses, so that a sentence such as _Bill is taller than Tom_ should be construed as an elliptical version of the sentence _Bill is taller than Tom is._" "...the writer who risks a sentence like _Mary is taller than him_ in formal writing must be prepared to defend the usage against objections of critics who are unlikely to be dissuaded from the conviction that the usage is incorrect."
> 
> I find that I'm one of those "unlikely to be dissuaded", so perhaps we should agree to disagree. I look forward to other opportunities to exchange ideas with you.
> 
> John
Click to expand...


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## gvergara

jdenson said:
			
		

> gvergara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Gonzalo,
> Stubborn? I prefer to say that we have the strength of our convictions.
> 
> From the American Heritage Dictionary -
> "Since the 18th century grammarians have insisted that _than_ should be regarded as a conjunction in all its uses, so that a sentence such as _Bill is taller than Tom_ should be construed as an elliptical version of the sentence _Bill is taller than Tom is._" "...the writer who risks a sentence like _Mary is taller than him_ in formal writing must be prepared to defend the usage against objections of critics who are unlikely to be dissuaded from the conviction that the usage is incorrect."
> 
> I find that I'm one of those "unlikely to be dissuaded", so perhaps we should agree to disagree. I look forward to other opportunities to exchange ideas with you.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I still stick to what I think, I wouldn't base my speech on what grammarians from the 18th century used to say... See you around, good luck
> 
> Gonzalo
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