# about thirty years old



## Lemminkäinen

Hi everybody 

I want to write "he was about thirty years old", and know it can be written as: 

*Ему было около тридцати лет*

But I was wondering whether the following would express it as well; I've seen the syntax from time to time in texts, and it seems to convey the same sense of "about-ness":

*Ему было лет тридцать*


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## palomnik

I'd say they're both all right, although second choice is better, but let's see what a native speaker says.


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## Maroseika

Lemminkäinen said:


> Hi everybody
> 
> I want to write "he was about thirty years old", and know it can be written as:
> 
> *Ему было около тридцати лет*
> 
> But I was wondering whether the following would express it as well; I've seen the syntax from time to time in texts, and it seems to convey the same sense of "about-ness":
> 
> *Ему было лет тридцать*


 
Both are correct, though the second one is more colloquial.
Other versions are also possible:
*Он был лет тридцати.*
*Ему было около тридцати.*
*Ему было под тридцать.*


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## Etcetera

Both sentences are OK.
But the second one indeed sounds more colloquial. And it seems to me that such wording may express some uncertainty of the speaker.


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## Jana337

Etcetera said:


> Both sentences are OK.
> But the second one indeed sounds more colloquial. And it seems to me that such wording may express some uncertainty of the speaker.


This way?





Lemminkäinen said:


> *Ему было около тридцати лет -* He is about 30 years old and I know it.
> 
> *Ему было лет тридцать - *I think he might be 30*. *


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## Ptak

*Ему было лет тридцать - *I think he might be *about* 30*. *

тридцать лет - 30 years
лет тридцать - about 30


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## Etcetera

Jana337 said:


> This way?


Yes, at least in my opinion.


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## Lemminkäinen

Thanks a lot for the explanation 

What I wanted to express was that something happened when he was about 30 years old (so I knew the approximate age), so I'll go with the first expression.


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## Etcetera

In this context, Lemmi, this will be the right choice, I think.


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## vince

What's the difference between

*лет тридцати.
* лет тридцать
*and
**тридцати лет
?

*


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## Maroseika

vince said:


> What's the difference between
> 
> *лет тридцати.*
> лет тридцать
> *and*
> *тридцати лет*
> *?*


*Солдату,* сидевшему в третьем ряду у окна, *было лет тридцать*.
В третьем ряду у окна сидел *солдат лет тридцати.*
Therefore as you see grammatically the difference is only in the Case of the noun.
Semantically - no difference, each of the vesrions can be used according to the common style of the text.

*тридцати лет* - 30 years old precisely
*лет тридцати* - about 30 years old


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## vince

How about  лет тридцать and  тридцать  лет?

спасибо


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## CrazyArcher

_*лет тридцать*_ expresses uncertainity and some degree of guessing. "Я прожил в том городе лет тридцать" - I had lived for about 30 years in that town.
_*тридцать лет*_ means just "30 years", precisely. "Этот з_а_мок строился тридцать лет" - This castle was built for thrity years. (Note the stress in "замок")
I hope I'm clear


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## Etcetera

Yes, CrazyArcher is right, the difference is in the degree of certainty.


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## egz03

Do native Russian speakers really feel that *тридцать лет* is _necessarily_ precise? In English, round numbers like 30 can be interpreted vaguely, such that in the right context you can refer to a 29-year-old or a 32-year-old as being 30, but you couldn't refer to them as being 31 (a non-round number). Would this be inappropriate in Russian?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> Do native Russian speakers really feel that *тридцать лет* is _necessarily_ precise?


It is precise. If you want to leave some room around 30, then you can say, besides the above examples, "Ей (ему) *тридцатник*" (30-31), or "*примерно тридцать*" (29-31), or "*тридцать с чем-то*" (over 30), or "*тридцать с хвостиком*", "*тридцать с небольшим*". (31, 32, maybe 33...).

Actually, there is a joke about that. See whether you can parse it.

Армянское радио спрашивают:
- Можно ли жениться в тридцать с небольшим?
- Можно, но лучше в сорок и с большим.


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## Q-cumber

egz03 said:


> Do native Russian speakers really feel that *тридцать лет* is _necessarily_ precise? In English, round numbers like 30 can be interpreted vaguely, such that in the right context you can refer to a 29-year-old or a 32-year-old as being 30, but you couldn't refer to them as being 31 (a non-round number). Would this be inappropriate in Russian?


I'd say *тридцать лет* always means 30-years in Russian. If we want to express some uncertainty, we say "под тридцать" (< 30), "за тридцать" (30+), "около тридцати", "в районе тридцати", "лет тридцать", "примерно тридцать лет", "четвёртый десяток" and so on.  By no means we would refer to a 29-year-old person as being 30, as we never "age" people this way, if you know what I mean.


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## egz03

Intersting. Thanks! Does this hold in general, like with *тридцать рублей* or *тридцать килограммов*?

Do you know if this precision is Russian-specific, or are there other Slavic/non-Slavic languages that interpret numbers this way too?


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## kotlomoy

In general


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## Q-cumber

egz03 said:


> Intersting. Thanks! Does this hold in general, like with *тридцать рублей* or *тридцать килограммов*?



Yes, more or less: 

- Ты не мог бы мне одолжить (lend) тридцать рублей? <Exact sum>
- Ты не мог бы мне одолжить рублей тридцать? <approx.>

- Он сбросил тридцать килограммов! <lose bodyweight (fat)>
- Он сбросил килограммов тридцать!


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> *тридцать килограммов*?


Each gramm, not even kilogramm (within an error of measurement) would make a difference.

Новости NEWSru.com :: В грузовом поезде изъято более *30* *...*
В грузовом поезде изъято *более 30 килограммов* героина. *...* По факту контрабанды в Россию *30 килограммов 250 граммов* героина возбуждено уголовное дело. *...*
www.newsru.com/arch/crime/02jul2001/geroin.html


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## Piotr_WRF

egz03 said:


> Do you know if this precision is Russian-specific, or are there other Slavic/non-Slavic languages that interpret numbers this way too?



Not in Polish. _Miał trzydzieści lat_ (_He was thirty years old_) is the common way to express this idea. _Miał lat trzydzieści_ sounds archaic but I don't think that anyone would perceive a difference between them two in meaning as far as precision is concerned.


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## Escogido

egz03 said:


> Do native Russian speakers really feel that *тридцать лет* is _necessarily_ precise? In English, round numbers like 30 can be interpreted vaguely, such that in the right context you can refer to a 29-year-old or a 32-year-old as being 30, but you couldn't refer to them as being 31 (a non-round number). Would this be inappropriate in Russian?


You are correct, тридцать лет does not always imply thirty-sharp. There's a really a subtle nuance here:

'Лет тридцать' would be used when the speaker is making an estimate of an unknown quantity.

'Тридцать лет' would be used when the speaker either knows the quantity but is deliberately rounding it because it's really irrelevant to use greater precision; or knows its estimate to be around that.

Example.

When I say 'Этому дому лет тридцать' I mean that I do not know how old is this house but I estimate its age at 30. I am also implying that I could be off with my estimate too.

When I say 'Этому дому тридцать лет' I either mean that:

* I know this house for a fact to be 30, or
* I know that it is for a fact e.g. 28 or 31, or
* I know that it is for a fact between 28 and 31 (or between 26 and 34 for that mater).

In either of these three cases I am indicating I'm fairly sure in my figures, with little to no chance of being off.

This is all really minor, but the difference is still there. I also think it pretty much matches the way it is used in English, so it's hardly a language quirk exclusive to Russian.


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## Kolan

Escogido said:


> You are correct, тридцать лет does not always imply thirty-sharp.


For the age of person *тридцать лет* is, however, conditionally _sharp_ (30 full years plus a certain number of months and days of the unfinished 31st year), otherwise, it would be *лет тридцать.* I think this is because the age of a person is normally very well documented. (Another example above: 30,250 kg of heroine is also weighed with a great precision, and it cannot be 30).

Accuracy of age of a house is somewhat less important (as compared to a person), let's say, in the range *between 26 and 35* it may fall in a conditional *30-year bracket*. But this is understood and this is not the same as the precise age (with 1 year margin) of a person.


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## Escogido

Kolan said:


> For the age of person *тридцать лет* is, however, conditionally _sharp_ (30 full years plus a certain number of months and days of the unfinished 31st year), otherwise, it would be *лет тридцать.*



I totally disagree. There're plenty of informal uses where you actually mean 30+. "Мне уже 30 лет" could perfectly mean 32.


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## Kolan

Escogido said:


> I totally disagree. There're plenty of informal uses where you actually mean 30+. "Мне уже 30 лет" could perfectly mean 32.


A person would normally know his own age exactly, so that this is a deliberate disinformation for some reason, then it could be anything. Some women try to dissimulate their age this way, for example. But it is not the point. I cannot say about someone *He is 30* (*Ему 30 лет*), if I know he is 32 and I do not want to make false statements.

But I can always say *Ему лет 30*, and that would be a true statement whether his age is, let's say, 28, or 30, or 32, ... , even if I know that he is not exactly 30.


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## Q-cumber

Kolan said:


> A person would normally know his own age exactly, so that this is a deliberate disinformation for some reason, then it could be anything. Some women try to dissimulate their age this way, for example. But it is not the point. I cannot say about someone *He is 30*, if I know he is 32 and I do not want to make false statements.



I agree with you.


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## egz03

What if I were to say that my grandfather is 80? I might know that he's 83, but my point in mentioning his age is to say that he's old, so his exact age isn't important. I'm not trying to make a false statement, I just don't want to bother you with the unnecessary syllable and precision. Would that still feel inappropriate in Russian?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> What if I were to say that my grandfather is 80? I might know that he's 83, but my point in mentioning his age is to say that he's old, so his exact age isn't important. I'm not trying to make a false statement, I just don't want to bother you with the unnecessary syllable and precision. Would that still feel inappropriate in Russian?


You'd rather say *Ему (уж) за 80*, otherwise it is understood that he is 80. Or, *Ему 80 стукнуло*, although it can be still perceived that he is 80, or *Ему 80 стукнуло давно -* then a degree of a larger imprecision is delivered (you said 83, that's would be OK). It just because it is your grandfather and you are supposed to know his age.

If all of that is about an old house, then *the age of 80* means *an age bracket around 80*, not proper age.


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## Escogido

egz03 said:


> What if I were to say that my grandfather is 80? I might know that he's 83, but my point in mentioning his age is to say that he's old, so his exact age isn't important. I'm not trying to make a false statement, I just don't want to bother you with the unnecessary syllable and precision. Would that still feel inappropriate in Russian?


That is perfectly appropriate - and that is exactly my point in the argument above. People *do* round figures deliberately when it's not necessary to be exact even if they do know the exact number. And while there are most certainly more precise ways to convey your meaning, which my opponents are insisting on, the language norm is what people actually use in their speech.


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> I just don't want to bother you with the unnecessary syllable and precision. Would that still feel inappropriate in Russian?


In Russian, if this is the point, you do not need to add an unnecessary syllable. Instead of *Ему 80 лет*, you just say *Ему лет 80*. Such a form conveys a desirable degree of imprecision, whether you are aware of the exact numbers or not. Why would this form exist in the language othewise and be very common?


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## Escogido

Kolan said:


> Why would this form exist in the language othewise and be very common?



Why indeed! Such ungrateful people, the language provides them a better way and they insist on using the one they like, assuming more work on the listener's side. What a shame.


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## Kolan

Escogido said:


> Why indeed! Such ungrateful people, the language provides them a better way and they insist on using the one they like, assuming more work on the listener's side. What a shame.


Well, it is not uncommon to load a listener with all sorts of imprecisions. Could you please provide a straightforward example from available literature which would prove without a shade of doubt what you said: 





Escogido said:


> There're plenty of informal uses where you actually mean 30+. "Мне уже 30 лет" could perfectly mean 32.


provided that this is not a misrepresentation of the real age of a person talking about him(her)self?


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## egz03

I read a paper where someone mentioned a situation where it's your colleague's birthday, but you don't know how old he's turning, so you have to guess. Apparently here it's fine to express his age as *лет тридцать*, but not *приблизительно* *тридцать лет* or *30-35 лет*. Would this be because the latter two options imply that you know approximately how old he is (e.g. you remember him having his 28th birthday a year or two ago) whereas the former implies that you're totally guessing? Or could this have something to do with the latter two options being more continuous in range, obscuring the fact that it is his birthday?


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## Escogido

I'd say that the second reasoning is correct - both приблизительно 30 лет and 30-35 лет do not sound precise enough for the context.

Also, "ему тридцать - тридцать пять лет", while being grammatically correct, sounds rather artificial - we're more likely to say "ему от тридцати до тридцати пяти".


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> I read a paper where someone mentioned a situation where it's your colleague's birthday, but you don't know how old he's turning, so you have to guess.


Could you please provide an exact quote?


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## egz03

Sure. The following is from a 2006 paper by Asya Pereltsvaig from the 14th annual meeting of Formal Approaches to Slavic Linguistics:

Consider the following situation: Masha is going to a colleague's birthday party and is asked how old that colleague is. Since she doesn't know him very well, she is guessing his age from his looks, etc. In this situation, Masha's reply can use the approximative in version in (19a), but not any other approximative strategy, such as using _priblizitel'no_ 'approximately' or an interval:

(19)
a. Let tridcat'
   years thirty
b. # Priblizitel'no tridcat' (let)
    approximately thirty years
c. # 30-35 let
   30-35 years
'Approximately thirty years'


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> Sure. The following is from a 2006 paper by Asya Pereltsvaig from the 14th annual meeting of Formal Approaches to Slavic Linguistics:
> 
> Consider the following situation: Masha is going to a colleague's birthday party and is asked how old that colleague is. Since she doesn't know him very well, she is guessing his age from his looks, etc. In this situation, Masha's reply can use the approximative in version in (19a), but not any other approximative strategy, such as using _priblizitel'no_ 'approximately' or an interval:
> 
> (19)
> a. Let tridcat'
> years thirty
> b. # Priblizitel'no tridcat' (let)
> approximately thirty years
> c. # 30-35 let
> 30-35 years
> 'Approximately thirty years'


Here's the nuance. The person is turning exact age today, therefore, any approximation must reflect that, leaving much less choice. Alternative to (19a) would be* около 30*, but I'd rather say *Ему, наверное, (стукнет) тридцать* (_стукнет_ is appropriate in informal conversation.), or *Ему что-нибудь тридцать*.


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## egz03

What if it weren't the guy's birthday? Would *приблизительно* *тридцать лет* or *30-35 лет *be more appropriate then, or would they imply that you know more than you actually do (i.e. that you're _not_ taking a wild guess)?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> What if it weren't the guy's birthday? Would *приблизительно* *тридцать лет* or *30-35 лет *be more appropriate then


It would be appropriate as well as other expressions. The numbers *30-35* are margins of your reasonable estimate and, probably, less precise, than *приблизительно* *тридцать лет.* How much else could you guess?


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## Escogido

egz03 said:


> What if it weren't the guy's birthday? Would *приблизительно* *тридцать лет* or *30-35 лет *be more appropriate then, or would they imply that you know more than you actually do (i.e. that you're _not_ taking a wild guess)?


Outside the birthday context, all of these are acceptable.

(Actually, приблизительно is an unusual word to be used in informal speech here. We'd rather say около тридцати, порядка тридцати or в районе тридцати. Приблизительно makes it sound like a police officer describing a potential suspect, or somesuch.)


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## egz03

But just *тридцать лет* would be inappropriate, because it would indicate that you _know_ he's approximately 30 (under the vague interpretation on тридцать)?


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## Escogido

It could be or it could not be. For example, if you are asked in such a way that you are expected to name an exact age if you know it, or state that you don't, then, naturally, you wouldn't.

Unlike "под тридцать" etc, I don't think that usage of the plain "тридцать лет" is specific to Russian, but rather common in most languages. I'd be using English "thirty years" in absolutely the same way.


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## egz03

So the context were some casual conversation (versus, say, filling out insurance forms) where his exact age makes no difference, I could say *тридцать лет*, even though it's purely a guess? I suppose I'm confused because of this:



Escogido said:


> 'Лет тридцать' would be used when the speaker is making an estimate of an unknown quantity.
> 
> 'Тридцать лет' would be used when the speaker either knows the quantity but is deliberately rounding it because it's really irrelevant to use greater precision; or knows its estimate to be around that.


 
I took that to mean thatit's not appropriate to say *тридцать лет* when you're just guessing. Is that not really the case?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> I took that to mean thatit's not appropriate to say *тридцать лет* when you're just guessing. Is that not really the case?


You got it right: if I say *Ему тридцать лет*, then I know that he is 30.


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## Escogido

If you're asked "сколько ему?" and you answer "ему тридцать", it implies that you're sure he's 30 and neither 29 nor 32.

If on the other hand you said "Пора бы ему завести семью, тридцать лет человеку" it could mean that he might actually be 32. (Kolan above objected to this usage, which is strictly speaking is indeed incorrect, but people do use that a lot, especially when talking about inanimate objects, as in "моей машине уже десять лет".)

In neither case you indicate you're guessing however. For comparison, if in the first example you didn't know for sure, your answer "ему тридцать" would likely have been interpreted as if you're actually sure - which is probably not your intent.


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## egz03

Kolan said:


> You got it right: if I say *Ему тридцать лет*, then I know that he is 30.


 
But couldn't I also know that he's 29, or that he's somewhere from 29 to 31?


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## KSSLW

egz03 said:


> But couldn't I also know that he's 29, or that he's somewhere from 29 to 31?


 
As Kolan stated before *Ему тридцать лет *is an affirmative phrase, so there is no doubt that person knows exact age. You can play with the meaning of this phrase adding another words like in this case:



Escogido said:


> Пора бы ему завести семью, тридцать лет человеку


 
The meaning also can change depending on how you build the sentence.


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## egz03

How about this scenario:

You're talking to an acquaintance, and she tells you her brother was born in the year of the ox, which for present purposes I'll say means he's 11, 23, 35, 47, 59, 71, or 83. This acquaintance is in her thirties, so your best guess would be that her brother is 35 (as opposed to 11, 23, etc.). 

Could you say *Ему лет тридцать пять *in this context?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> You're talking to an acquaintance, and she tells you her brother was born in the year of the ox, which for present purposes I'll say means he's 11, 23, 35, 47, 59, 71, or 83. This acquaintance is in her thirties, so your best guess would be that her brother is 35 (as opposed to 11, 23, etc.).
> 
> Could you say *Ему лет тридцать пять *in this context?


After all this math (in the aftermath ) - no, you can't, unless you are terribly bad in math. Because normally you would come to this numeric conclusion undoubtedly.


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## egz03

Kolan said:


> Because you come to a numeric conclusion undoubtedly.


 
I'm sorry, what do you mean by coming to a numeric conclusion undoubtedly? Is it that you know it's one of these numbers, even if you don't know which?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> I'm sorry, what do you mean by coming to a numeric conclusion undoubtedly? Is it that you know it's one of these numbers, even if you don't know which?


In the range of thirties (30-39) there is only one number, 35, that would fit. What else should I guess about?

*Ему лет тридцать пять* could mean 34-36, but never the range 23-47.


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## egz03

Kolan said:


> In the range of thirties (30-39) there is only one number, 35, that would fit. What else should I guess about?


 
But you don't know that he's in his thirties. You know his sister is, so you guess that he is too. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that he was 23 instead, or maybe even 47, though the other ages would be rather unlikely under normal circumstances.


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## Ptak

egz03, I can't exlain you properly why, but I also think that you can't ask "Ему лет тридцать пять?" in this case.


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> But you don't know that he's in his thirties. You know his sister is, so you guess that he is too. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that he was 23 instead, or maybe even 47, though the other ages would be rather unlikely under normal circumstances.


OK, you can make an _educated_ guess and ask her: "*Ему года 23?*" Then your math would be understood, but this will have nothing to do with 35 as his sister's age estimate. In fact, you know all the years of Ox, then you wiil have to subtract them from the current year, which leaves you with an error margin of 1 year (depending on whether it's in January or not, and on the exact date of birth), therefore,* 22-24*.


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## egz03

With this scenario, I was trying to see if you can do this number-noun inversion (e.g. лет тридцать) when you're guessing, but not really approximating. And I get the impression that you can't.


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> With this scenario,


Which scenario?


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## egz03

Kolan said:


> Which scenario?


 
The one with the year of the ox.


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> The one with the year of the ox.


Here's the rule that you could follow. 

If you are guessing or approximating (let's say, using the years of Ox assumption), whatever, and coming to a certain range of numbers (22-24), then you want to use a number-noun inversion (*года 23*) which would be correctly understood by a native speaker. 

If you are able to figure out the age of a person exactly by any means, then no inversion would be possible (*23 года*), unless you choose not to tell truth or not all truth or just make a vague statement.


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## egz03

Kolan said:


> If you are guessing or approximating (let's say, using the years of Ox assumption), whatever, and coming to a certain range of numbers (22-24), then you want to use a number-noun inversion (*года 23*) which would be correctly understood by a native speaker.


 
Okay, let me see if I'm getting any of this.

Say you're talking to another person, X, about your acquaintance's brother. 

Ox subscenario 1: If you told X that this brother was born in the year of the ox and was *года 23*, could X reasonably think that this brother might also be 35? Or would X be stuck thinking the brother was more or less 23?

Ox subscenario 2: Say you know that this brother is turning 23 in two days. You tell X that the brother was born in the year of the ox and, rounding, call him *23 года* (if that's legitimate). This would presumably rule out X's consideration of any of the other ox-compatible ages, right?


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## Kolan

egz03 said:


> Ox subscenario 1: If you told X that this brother was born in the year of the ox and was *года 23*, could X reasonably think that this brother might also be 35? Or would X be stuck thinking the brother was more or less 23?


Never 35, even if X knows that you were using a strategy based on chinese years. From *года 23 *X would understand that the brother is 22-24.


egz03 said:


> Ox subscenario 2: Say you know that this brother is turning 23 in two days. You tell X that the brother was born in the year of the ox and, rounding, call him *23 года* (if that's legitimate). This would presumably rule out X's consideration of any of the other ox-compatible ages, right?


You got this right. However, in the subscenario 1 the age of 35 is ruled out as well.


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## egz03

Thanks. Can I assume the answer for subscenario 1 would be about the same if you said *около 23 лет*?


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## Ptak

> Ox subscenario 1: If you told X that this brother was born in the year of the ox and was года 23, could X reasonably think that this brother might also be 35? Or would X be stuck thinking the brother was more or less 23?


egz, I'd say that in this case X would be stuck thinking the brother is more or less 23, undoubtedly, _and_ that you actually don't remember well which year was the year of the ox.  And that's why you're not sure if he's 23 (you only know he's _about_ 23), but you know precisely that he was born in the year of the ox. And if you took a calendar (Chinese), you'd count up how old he is right away.


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## Ptak

egz03 said:


> How about this scenario:
> 
> You're talking to an acquaintance, and she tells you her brother was born in the year of the ox, which for present purposes I'll say means he's 11, 23, 35, 47, 59, 71, or 83. This acquaintance is in her thirties, so your best guess would be that her brother is 35 (as opposed to 11, 23, etc.).
> 
> Could you say *Ему лет тридцать пять *in this context?


As for this your question, I think this explanation maybe could help:

If you are guessing and you have _variants_ (for example - 15, 18, 24, 27), you can't ask "Ему лет [one of the variants]?" because it's not an approximate guessing; on the contrary, you can only choose among several very concrete variants. But if you are just guessing, without any variant of the correct answer, and the answer should not be absolutely precise ("he's _about_ 30" is not precise, right?) then you can ask "Ему лет xxx?"

Maybe that helps.


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## egz03

Can I try a slightly different situation, on the off chance that the result might be different?

Say we're talking about a building that was built a long time ago in the year of the ox. That would make it (for present purposes) 4, 16, ..., 76, 88, 100, 112, 124,... years old, but I don't know which. Could I tell you that the building was build in the year of the ox and that it's лет сто to convey that it's probably 88, 100, or 112 years old? Or can it still not pick out these specific numbers?


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## O.Bender

Now you are just messing with us 
Seriously, it seems not so much of a linguistic problem now, and more of a common sense.  I wouldn't use a number 112 out of 88, 100, and 112, unless I have a  reason to believe it's actually 112, and not any other choice.  

To summarize:

Situation 1 - You are a tour guide, pointing at the building:
"Это здание было построено в год вола около ста лет тому назад".

Situation 2: - You are with a friend, pointing at the same building:
"Это здание было построено в год вола лет сто тому назад".

But:

"Это здание было построено в год вола лет сто двенадцать тому назад",

while grammatically seems alright, it just doesn't make much sense, whatever language you say it in (that is, of course, in the context given, 88, 100, or 112).

Please, don't ask why I used "ТОМУ".  I don't know, I just did.  

cheers.


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## egz03

Thanks. Can I ask something _slightly_ different? Earier I brought up this situation I read about:



egz03 said:


> Masha is going to a colleague's birthday party and is asked how old that colleague is. Since she doesn't know him very well, she is guessing his age from his looks, etc. In this situation, Masha's reply can use the approximative in version in (19a), but not any other approximative strategy, such as using _priblizitel'no_ 'approximately' or an interval:
> 
> (19)
> a. Let tridcat'
> years thirty
> b. # Priblizitel'no tridcat' (let)
> approximately thirty years
> c. # 30-35 let
> 30-35 years
> 'Approximately thirty years'


 
What if this colleague really likes parties, so every year they throw him a party both on his birthday and on his half-birthday. Masha doesn't know how old he is or if it's his birthday or half-birthday, so she would guess that he's 29, 29.5, 30, 30.5, etc. Can she still say лет тридцать?


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## Q-cumber

egz03 said:


> Thanks. Can I ask something _slightly_ different? Earier I brought up this situation I read about:
> 
> What if this colleague really likes parties, so every year they throw him a party both on his birthday and on his half-birthday. Masha doesn't know how old he is or if it's his birthday or half-birthday, so she would guess that he's 29, 29.5, 30, 30.5, etc. Can she still say лет тридцать?



We never celebrate half-birthdays. Moreover, I've never ever heard about such a tradition. Anyway, "лет тридцать" or "около тридцати" would be fine here.


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## egz03

What if we go back to the one-party-a-year situation and for some reason you know the colleague was born in an odd year. Since it's 2009, that would make him an even age. Could you say ему лет тридцать to mean that he's 28, 30, 32...? Or is this like the year of the ox, where picking from some list was no good?


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## Saluton

Q-cumber said:


> "за тридцать" (>30)


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## Q-cumber

egz03 said:


> What if we go back to the one-party-a-year situation and for some reason you know the colleague was born in an odd year. Since it's 2009, that would make him an even age. Could you say ему лет тридцать to mean that he's 28, 30, 32...? Or is this like the year of the ox, where picking from some list was no good?



Well, there are no strict rules in Russian on how to use approximations. So I can only base on my personal opinion.

1. If I don't know his exact age (DKHEA) then I do my best guess and say "ему около 30" or "ему лет 28-30".
2. Should I know for sure that he is over 30 (but I still DKHEA) then I say "ему за 30" or "разменял четвёртый десяток".
3. If I know that he isn't turned 30 yet (but DKHEA) is say "ему под 30" or "ему будет 30" or "ему почти 30".  "Ему около 30" is also fine. 
4. Generally speaking, we don't care much about a particular age of a person... it isn't a very important fact to remember. We'd rather say "ему около 30" than "ему 29.5 лет" ... unless mentioning the exact age is important for some reason.


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## egz03

Thanks for all your thoughts on these convoluted scenarios. 

Can I ask about something different? If I were to say "Иван думает, что ему лет 30", assuming that "ему" doesn't refer to Ivan, do people get the sense that I (the speaker) don't know this person's age or that Ivan doesn't?


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