# Hindi: उक्त जप्त वाहन ukt japt vaahan



## marrish

हिंदी भाषी मित्रो,

कृपया निम्नलिखित वाक्य को पढ़कर विशेष रूप से मोटे अक्षरों में लिखे शब्दों की ओर ध्यान देते हुए बताइए कि आप के अनुसार इस वाक्य का क्या अर्थ है। 
*
"उक्त जप्त* वाहनों को नियमानुसार कार्यवाही के लिए रतनपुर-कोनी एवं तारबाहर थाना को सुपूर्त की गई है।"

धन्यवाद


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## Dib

ukt = said, i.e. afore-mentioned
zabt (ضبط) = confiscated

---

What surprises me is the feminine concord of the verb "kii gaii"! 
Could you, please, share the source of this sentence (I am interested in which part of the Hindi-speaking world it comes from)?

---

Full translation:
"The afore-mentioned confiscated/seized vehicles have been delivered/entrusted to Ratanpur-Koni and Tarbahar police stations for actions as per the rules."


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## marrish

दीब जी आपका बहुत बहुत धन्यवाद। इस वाक्य में आश्चर्य वाली और भी बातें हैं पर मेरी विनती है कि उनकी इसी लड़ी में चर्चा न की जाए क्योंकि भय है कि लड़ी बहुविषय होने की उलाहना देकर इसे बंद भी करवाया जा सकता है।

यह वाक्य छत्तीसगढ़ शासन की एक सूचना में मिला है।

पश्चलेख: क्षमा कीजिए यदि "उक्त जप्त" को छोड़कर अन्य शब्दों या वाक्यनिर्माण के बारे में किसी मित्र को कुछ कहना हो तो कृपया नई लड़ी बनाकर कहिए।


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## Qureshpor

*उक्त जप्त* वाहनों को नियमानुसार कार्यवाही के लिए रतनपुर-कोनी एवं तारबाहर थाना को सुपूर्त की गई है।
If *जप्त* is indeed zabt, what surprises me is why a "b" has been replaced by a "p"! We've seen v and b being shuffled around from "vabaal" to "bavaal" and now "b" is ejected and "p" thrust in its place. What would be the mindset behind this? 

Should "thaanaa" not be declined?

Dib Jii, would a Hindi speaker not familiar with the Urdu alphabet be able to work out that "japt" is supposed to be "zabt"?


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## marrish

मुझे तो "जप्त" को पढ़कर यह लगा कि यह संस्कृत का शब्द है, उक्त की तरह। उक्त=बताया हुआ, जप्त=जपा हुआ। दोनों मिलकर यूँ लगते हैं जैसे यह एक मुहावरा होता पर समझ नहीं आ रही थी कि गाड़ियों और जपने का क्या संबंध हो सकता है।


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## Dib

marrish said:


> यह वाक्य छत्तीसगढ़ शासन की एक सूचना में मिला है।



is jaankaarii ke liye bahut bahut shukriyaa. 



Qureshpor said:


> If *जप्त* is indeed zabt, what surprises me is why a "b" has been replaced by a "p"! ... "b" is ejected and "p" thrust in its place. What would be the mindset behind this?



Voicing assimilation - b assimilating to voiceless t after it.



> Should "thaanaa" not be declined?



marrish jii DanDaa lagaaeN ge aap ko. 



> Dib Jii, would a Hindi speaker not familiar with the Urdu alphabet be able to work out that "japt" is supposed to be "zabt"?



*I don't think so. But, "zabt"~"jabt", etc. forms are also used in Hindi widely (at least when speaking), and maybe also zabd~jabd though I am not so sure about this.
(Bengali uses "jɔbdo" in the sense of "put to shame")



marrish said:


> मुझे तो "जप्त" को पढ़कर यह लगा कि यह संस्कृत का  शब्द है, उक्त की तरह। उक्त=बताया हुआ, जप्त=जपा हुआ। दोनों मिलकर यूँ लगते  हैं जैसे यह एक मुहावरा होता पर समझ नहीं आ रही थी कि गाड़ियों और जपने का  क्या संबंध हो सकता है।



koii naa, aisaa sabhii ke saath ho jaataa hai kabhii kabhii. 

====

**EDIT:* I might have misunderstood and accordingly answered the question wrongly. What I meant is, a Hindi speaker without a detailed acquaintance of Hindi or Urdu standard wouldn't probably be able to tell which of the forms japt ~ zabt ~ jabt, etc. is original. On the other hand, when they see the word written "japt" in this particular context, they will likely recognize it instantly (like I did, without being a native Hindi speaker and not having this word in Bengali in this sense either).


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## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> [...] Voicing assimilation - b assimilating to voiceless t after it. [...]


Thank you. Can you think of any other words in Hindi of Arabic (or Persian) origin which have had their b changed to p? You of course would know that there is no "p" in Arabic.


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## Dib

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you. Can you think of any other words in Hindi of Arabic (or Persian) origin which have had their b changed to p? You of course would know that there is no "p" in Arabic.



Not just any b>p would serve as parallel, what we are looking for is really voicing assimilation at the end of a syllable. So, I searched in Platts for the sequences bt, bs, jt, js, bsh, ds, etc. at the end of words. But couldn't find any common Hindi words among them (except "zabt"). One of the results does exist in common Bengali usage though:
Bengali. rɔpto (<rabt ربط) = familiarized (Dictionary also has chhepto < sabt ثبت = written, with seal - but I never heard it before.)

Maybe someone with better knowledge of Hindi will have more luck. In any case, voicing assimilation is cross-linguistically a very common phenomenon.


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you. Can you think of any other words in Hindi of Arabic (or Persian) origin which have had their b changed to p? You of course would know that there is no "p" in Arabic.





Dib said:


> Not just any b>p would serve as parallel, what we are looking for is really voicing assimilation at the end of a syllable. So, I searched in Platts for the sequences bt, bs, jt, js, bsh, ds, etc. at the end of words. But couldn't find any common Hindi words among them (except "zabt"). One of the results does exist in common Bengali usage though:
> Bengali. rɔpto (<rabt ربط) = familiarized (Dictionary also has chhepto < sabt ثبت = written, with seal - but I never heard it before.)
> 
> Maybe someone with better knowledge of Hindi will have more luck. In any case, voicing assimilation is cross-linguistically a very common phenomenon.


श्री क़ुरेश्पोर का कोटि कोटि धन्यवाद ब और प की "हेराफेरी" की दिशा में ध्यान खिंचवाने के लिए। मै उनके प्रश्न में विस्तारण करना चाहूँगा, अरबी तथा फ़ार्सी के अतिरिक्त अन्य भाषाओं से आने वाले शब्दों में इस प्रकार की स्थिति का मुझे जिज्ञासा है। मैं भी आशा करता हूँ हिंदी ज्ञानी ध्यान देंगे।

दीब बाबू आपको प्लैट्स में "जप्त" उपलब्ध िमला है?


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## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> **EDIT:* I might have misunderstood and accordingly answered the question wrongly. What I meant is, a Hindi speaker without a detailed acquaintance of Hindi or Urdu standard wouldn't probably be able to tell which of the forms japt ~ zabt ~ jabt, etc. is original. On the other hand, when they see the word written "japt" in this particular context, they will likely recognize it instantly (like I did, without being a native Hindi speaker and not having this word in Bengali in this sense either).


I would suggest that the existence of "zabt" in your conscience is what made you recognise it instantaneously. I was stuck with ukta and was linking japta as if that too was a past participle of some sort.


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## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> ukt = said, i.e. afore-mentioned
> zabt (ضبط) = confiscated
> ---
> 
> [..]
> ---
> 
> Full translation:
> "The afore-mentioned confiscated/seized vehicles have been delivered/entrusted to Ratanpur-Koni and Tarbahar police stations for actions as per the rules."


Thank you for the translation, Dib Jii. It is very much appreciated. I can't see how one can translate "japt/zabt" as "confiscated" and I am not blaming you at all. One would have to assign this meaning to the word in the sentence but, we all know, at best the word means "confiscation" and not "confiscated". May be I am wrong and in Hindi "zabt" is assigned the past-participle meaning.

I hope marrish SaaHib starts new threads on a couple of other points I have an issue with.


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## Dib

marrish said:


> दीब बाबू आपको प्लैट्स में "जप्त" उपलब्ध िमला है?[/COLOR]



jii, wo to maiN ne DhuuNDhaa bhii nahiiN thaa. siidhe "zabt" hii DhuuNDhaa thaa, kyoN ki zyaadaatar maiN ne ise usii ruup meN sunaa thaa.



Qureshpor said:


> I would suggest that the existence of "zabt" in your conscience is what made you recognise it instantaneously.



Yes, I certainly had "zabt" in my knowledge, but I believe I'd have recognized zabt-jabt-japt, etc. in this context. Maybe it helps that I don't have a mental script image associated with this word (whether in Hindi or Urdu script). Even though I have heard it very often, this may be the first time I saw it written. Sorry, I haven't read much Hindi or Urdu in my life.


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## marrish

All of you and others too are welcome to start new threads. It seems I have more issues than you and Dib but if you permit, I will start them, if you do not, tomorrow.


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you for the translation, Dib Jii. It is very much appreciated. I can't see how one can translate "japt/zabt" as "confiscated" and I am not blaming you at all. One would have to assign this meaning to the word in the sentence but, we all know, at best the word means "confiscation" and not "confiscated". May be I am wrong and in Hindi "zabt" is assigned the past-participle meaning.
> 
> I hope marrish SaaHib starts new threads on a couple of other points I have an issue with.


मैं भी दीब बाबू का आभारी हूँ, उनके ही अनुवाद से पता चला है कि लिखने वाला क्या लिखना चाहता था। जैसे ही मैंने देखा "उक्त जप्त" मैंने भी सोचा था कि यह participle है।


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> [...]दीब बाबू आपको प्लैट्स में "जप्त" उपलब्ध िमला है?


Dib Jii ne pahle hii uttar de diyaa hai. maiN ne Platts aur McGregor meN "japt" shabd DhuuNDaa hai par nahiiN milaa. haaN donoN meN "zabt" hai.


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## marrish

_Platts meN to hogaa hii, Urdu kii jo luGhat hae. sochaa kih McGregor aanjahaanii meN japt hogaa par agar nahiiN huaa to kyaa kiyaa jaae. Dib Dikshanarii meN hae nah?_


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## mundiya

HSS me.n hai: japt. 

From my understanding, the -bt suffix is not found in Indic words, so some speakers adapt the pronunciation to -pt, which is a common suffix.


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## marrish

Yes, Dib has already suggested zabt but not jabt. Previously I tended to use HSS but you have proven me wrong on my choice with Chaturvedi. (cf. thread on bavaal). Your last remark is highly significant and interesting. I think the people trained in linguistics can shed more light on it (like Dib but not only).

Again, how should a Hindi learner know which dictionary is good for which purpose?


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## mundiya

I would recommend a combination of HSS, Chaturvedi, and Platts.



marrish said:


> Yes, Dib has already suggested zabt but not jabt.



The HSS entry I mentioned was "ja*p*t".


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## gagun

aapaआप (sanskrit)=آب(पारसी) i think this variation's impact  hasbeen on other  words also.


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## Gope

marrish said:


> हिंदी भाषी मित्रो,
> 
> कृपया निम्नलिखित वाक्य को पढ़कर विशेष रूप से मोटे अक्षरों में लिखे शब्दों की ओर ध्यान देते हुए बताइए कि आप के अनुसार इस वाक्य का क्या अर्थ है।
> *
> "उक्त जप्त* वाहनों को नियमानुसार कार्यवाही के लिए रतनपुर-कोनी एवं तारबाहर थाना को सुपूर्त की गई है।"
> 
> धन्यवाद



marrish jii, if I may chip in with what I found:

ब्ृहत् हिंदी कोश : जप्त (स्थानिक) दे० जब्त ।


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## Qureshpor

^ Could you please clarify the above entry. What does दे stand for?


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## Gope

Qureshpor said:


> ^ Could you please clarify the above entry. What does दे stand for?


ब्ृहत् हींदी कोश is a (respectable, mainstream) Hindi-Hindi dictionary. There is a dagger symbol next to the entry जप्त + . दे० means देखिये see. The dagger symbol stands for स्थानिक, as explained under 'abbreviations used in this dictionary'. Hence this lexicographer is saying that जप्त is a regional use and not standard, the standard use being जब्त. Okay, Qureshpor SaaHib?


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## Dib

mundiya said:


> HSS me.n hai: japt.
> 
> From my understanding, the -bt suffix is not found in Indic words, so  some speakers adapt the pronunciation to -pt, which is a common  suffix.





marrish said:


> Your last remark is highly significant and interesting. I think the people trained in linguistics can shed more light on it (like Dib but not only).



My take on this is that mundiya's comment makes sense. As far as I understand, Hindi native vocabulary contains only homorganic nasal+plosive (or affricate) clusters at the syllable end (e.g. Dank, pankh, chanT, etc.) Ref: "Hindi" by Yamuna Kachru, 2.3.1 (page 21). The (non-nasal) stop+stop final clusters are all necessarily borrowings, many of them from Sanskrit, due to deletion of final "a". The principle of voicing assimilation is strongly entrenched in the Sanskrit consonant sandhi-rules, and thus sequences like *-bt(h)- or *-pd(h)- are implossible in Sanskrit, only -bd(h)- and -pt(h)- are possible. The latter sequence is especially common because of the perfect participle of many verb roots ending in -p, which are borrowed into Hindi as words ending in -pt, e.g. gupt, diipt, lupt, (vy/pr)aapt, supt, tapt, tript, lipt, etc. The Sanskrit verb roots in -b seem to form the perfect participle only in -ita (e.g. chumbita = kissed), but even if there was any root taking simple -ta, the result would be -b+-ta = -pta (and NOT -bta, neither -bda). So, word/syllable-final -bt sequence is understandably unfamiliar to Hindi speakers, while -pt sequence is very familiar.


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## marrish

Gope said:


> ब्ृहत् हींदी कोश is a (respectable, mainstream) Hindi-Hindi dictionary. There is a dagger symbol next to the entry जप्त + . दे० means देखिये see. The dagger symbol stands for स्थानिक, as explained under 'abbreviations used in this dictionary'. Hence this lexicographer is saying that जप्त is a regional use and not standard, the standard use being जब्त. Okay, Qureshpor SaaHib?


फिर क्या यह सच है कि मानक हिंदी में "जब्त" उचित है जबकि "ज़ब्त" नहीं?


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## Gope

marrish said:


> फिर क्या यह सच है कि मानक हिंदी में "जब्त" उचित है जबकि "ज़ब्त" नहीं?


I should think so. Regional variations are noted by lexicographers, only 'noted' so that the reader may be aware of them. 
I am speaking of what is true generally, not merely of Hindi.
secondly, living in India, I know that bureaucratic notices are not examples of correct use of language. Strangely, more careless mistakes are made in our native languages than in English. While vocabulary may be attested somewhere, like जप्त and कार्यवाही here, we should be able to make decisions about grammatical mistakes ourselves, I think. Unless of course our sentence is from a careful writer.


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