# Servus (Bavaria and Austria)



## berndf

This is taken from a different threat:




sokol said:


> (*Servus*, by the way, as a greeting is used very frequently in Austria and quite often in Bavaria; to my knowledge it is not used further north and west in the German speaking region.)


I support this. Outside of Bavaria or Austria this greeting is not used. And is so, it would be perceived as an imitation of Bavarian or Austrian use.

Now my question: What is the origin of this greeting specifically in this area? It would be a literal translation of the originally Venetian _ciao_ into Latin (both meaning _slave_ or _servant_). Could this be the origin?


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## sokol

berndf said:


> Now my question: What is the origin of this greeting specifically in this area? It would be a literal translation of the originally Venetian _ciao_ into Latin (both meaning _slave_ or _servant_). Could this be the origin?


The etymology given usually of course is the Latin one, but as far as the origin goes it is difficult to say: did it origin in Veneto and was it adopted by Austria, or did it develop independently in Austria, or was it invented even in Hungary and spread from there?

Most likely it _should _be a loan translation from _ciao _- also because the use is similar (it is used both for _hello _and _good bye)._
(Interestingly, _ciao _which also is used in Austria quite frequently only would be used for _good bye.)_

Wiki by the way states (I've looked it up there only now) that _Servus _also were used further west and north in Germany which is news to me though I did know that other countries which once belonged to the Habsburg Empire know the greeting.
But Wiki also says that the greeting also had spread to Slovenia: when I was there in 1997 I never ever heard _Servus _as greeting. (It may have come out of use over time, Wiki might still be right historically.)


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## Kuestenwache

At least in the Palatinate Region, which has historically been a part of Bavaria not to long ago, "Servus" is used quite often.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

But Wiki also says that the greeting also had spread to Slovenia: when I was there in 1997 I never ever heard _Servus _as greeting. (It may have come out of use over time, Wiki might still be right historically.)

*It is used in Styria as a greeting alongside zdravo in Slovenia. Zdravo is more used in Maribor.*


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## sokol

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> *It is used in Styria as a greeting alongside zdravo in Slovenia. Zdravo is more used in Maribor.*


Interesting. I learned in Ljubljana that there it is _živio _while in Maribor it is _zdravo,_ but even though a Štajerec (Slovenian from Slovene-Styria, somewhere from the Celje-Region if I remember correctly) was one of my fellow students there (with whom I had long conversations about the 'cheerful Štajerci' as he put it, as opposed to the 'stern Kranjci' of the Slovenian core lands around Ljubljana, he never mentioned this).

The explanation may be simply that Slovene Styria was for a long time under the provincial rule of Austrian Styria and Graz. Whatever - we shouldn't discuss this in more detail here as this thread is about _Servus _in German speaking nations.



_An edit for DH's next post:_ yes, that's what I meant too; your post is an interesting insight, but we shouldn't wander too far off topic in this thread.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

sokol said:


> Interesting. I learned in Ljubljana that there it is _živio _while in Maribor it is _zdravo,_ but even though a Štajerec (Slovenian from Slovene-Styria, somewhere from the Celje-Region if I remember correctly) was one of my fellow students there (with whom I had long conversations about the 'cheerful Štajerci' as he put it, as opposed to the 'stern Kranjci' of the Slovenian core lands around Ljubljana, he never mentioned this).
> 
> The explanation may be simply that Slovene Styria was for a long time under the provincial rule of Austrian Styria and Graz. Whatever - we shouldn't discuss this in more detail here as this thread is about _Servus _in German speaking nations.


 
You are right that it shouldn't be discussed here as it concerns German usage, but I just thought I'd gave you an insight on the Slovene usage which you've mentioned.


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## Imants

I also have the impression that many students, and not only the ones from Bavaria, say "servus".

I find it interesting that it's used for both "hi" and "bye".


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## brian

If it's a translation of _ciao_ (from Venetian _sciavo_, Italian _schiavo_), then why not use the German word and cognate _Sklave_? Maybe because it's too forward and sounds weird/demeaning to greet people as _slave/Sklave_?

By now _ciao_ is so removed from the word _sciavo/schiavo_ that no one ever thinks of its slave meaning anymore, just like most people wouldn't automatically make the connection using Latin _servus_ (and even if they did, Latin not being their native tongue, they wouldn't have the same emotional reaction); using _Sklave_, however, would trigger an emotional reaction in most Germans, I suppose.

Sorry, I guess I answered my own question  but I'll post anyway.


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## Hutschi

As far as I know also the German speakers in Prag used it (Spejbl and Hurvinek used it regularly).
It also was used in Saxony (Sachsen), however seldom, may be the children's TV had some influence.


It is connected to the meaning "Diener" rather than "Sklave" but there may be a connection in etymology.

In Haselbach, where I lived as child "Diener" was an equivalent welcome greeting.

"Servus" is used as welcome or as good bye formula depending on the region, I suppose. 

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servus

The English word "service" should be cognate.

At your service
Hutschi


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> It is connected to the meaning "Diener" rather than "Sklave" but there may be a connection in etymology.


It is the same thing. "Servus" is the classical Latin word for slave or servant and "Sclavus" is late Latin (derived from Byzantine Greek).


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## Hutschi

So the word changed the meaning, because "Diener" and "Sklave" are different now in meaning. 
I suppose: "Servierer" is in the same range. Am I right, or is this folk etymology?


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> So the word changed the meaning, because "Diener" and "Sklave" are different now in meaning.


I think classical Latin simply didn’t differentiate between the two and had no need to. Free citizens didn't work as servants. Servants were always slaves. A (poor) free man in a state of semi-servitude was called a "cliens", accusative "clientem" > "client". But a "cliens" usually did not do what we today understand to be the work of a "servant".


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## sokol

Concerning the origins of the greeting "Servus" I've opened a new thread about "G'schamster Diener".


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## Johann Gasser

The salutation 'Servus' is actually very old and was primarily used in the the German speaking corridor of Austria, Switzerland and most southerly regions in Bavarian; of course it is also used in 'Oberschwaben' and the old 'Baden'.  It seems to have crept northwards and into the German language islands in the various Austro-Hungarian lands.

It has 'Latin' roots, but it's use and meaning has been 'corrupted' over time.  In the time of the 'Hapsburgs' it was the courtly and obedient form of address of the masses and meant essentially: 'At your service'.  It is also considered a false form of humility of the masses toward their 'uppers'.  

Even if one considers  'Ich Diene', it is not in the same realm and belongs to a old Saxon form of expressing service to the people/nation.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

Do you know when did it lose the courtly and obedient form of address of the masses? I'd imagine you the servant would greet a master in this way in those days. But now it seems that servus is used by everybody. But I wouldn't imagine nowadays greeting a king with servus.


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## sokol

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> Do you know when did it lose the courtly and obedient form of address of the masses?


I was curious about the same thing once (see this thread), but I guess this will be difficult to decide. You'll have to study plenty of old texts to make sure of that.


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## Kevin Beach

In 18th and 19th century Britain, the phrases "your servant" and even "your obedient servant" were used as greetings and farewells among the socially aware classes. "Your obedient servant" remained until the first half of the 20th century as a way of signing off official letters.

I suggest that the practice of formal obeisance or subservience in greetings was quite widespread in Europe and found expression in different words according to the local language, rather than being specifically borrowed and translated from one region by another.

I also suggest that the use of "Servus" for this purpose in Catholic Austria and Bavaria reflects the influence of Latin as the language of the Church.

But others with precisely researched evidence may know better.


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## Johann Gasser

It is interesting to look at some correspondence (Writing of letters) that was generated between the average citizen and the bureaucracy. And there one finds something eye catching.  Namely,  the closing line would/could read as follows:  ....und so verbleibe ich mit Herzlichen Gruessen _Ihr._.. XXX/.   It could actually mean: .... with heatfelt greeting I remain _your _(Servant) XXX (not to be vulgar but this is considered by some a form of 'sucking up'.  AKA: 'false humility').

(i_n the English language this ending can be: 'Yours truly', or 'Sincerely, yours'. 'Yours' meaning *at your service*')._

But, between friends and family, Servus or Tschuess would suffice. When communicating orally the greeting or salutaion informally (relaxed) is and was Servus at the beginning and end.  'Tschuess' is another topic altogether.

Of course, the meaning and origin of the word 'Servus' is one thing but has anybody given any thought to_ intonation_ applied by the speaker and how this could alter the salutations meaning and intent?


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## sokol

Kevin Beach: yes of course, the influence of Latin certainly did play a role. 


Johann Gasser said:


> Of course, the meaning and origin of the word 'Servus' is one thing but has anybody given any thought to_ intonation_ applied by the speaker and how this could alter the salutations meaning and intent?


Do you refer here to the pronunciations "as written" = /seavus/ and the dialect pronunciation = /seavas/? (There's even shortened /se'as/.)

In case you do, yes of course, there's a big difference between those. The /servus/ pronunciation is posh, the dialect pronunciation isn't, so if you are a foreigner and use /servus/ you might come over as "posh" while to you use /seavas/ and else speaking standard language (and not dialect), as you might do when you're a learner of German, just sounds strange.


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## Johann Gasser

sokol said:


> Do you refer here to the pronunciations "as written" = /seavus/ and the dialect pronunciation = /seavas/? (There's even shortened /se'as/.)


Well done! Other than the standard and colloquial, there are local nuances. 
For instance, in Bregenz, Dornbirn, Hohenems and Feldkirch one can hear 'Seahvous', whereas in Bad Ischl its the 'unhoefliche' 'Cervas' but in Salem, Baden, 'Servas' or 'Serevas'. 

Lets not forget that modern hygiene, Oral health, has improved the ability of populus to pronounce their words in a more articulate manner. I know from experience, first hand, based on observation over the last 60+ years that the 'unhoefliche' (colloquial), not vulgar, became standard. What a shame.


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## sokol

Johann Gasser said:


> ... whereas in Bad Ischl its the 'unhoefliche' 'Cervas' ...


You mean ['tse.as], which indeed is a common pronunciation in Upper Austria in general. I don't know wether this was considered impolite once but it is certainly perfectly polite to talk like that; if anything ['tse.as] puts special (positive) emphasis (especially used for greeting, not for parting, for example if you haven't seen someone for a long tim).

Anyway, unmarked, most typical pronunciation in Upper Austria would be rather ['seavas] or ['se.as] while ['tse.as] is marked (more emphatic). All those pronunciations of course go with dialect speech - you wouldn't use them (usually) in standard language (but then many Upper Austrians don't use standard language much anyway, in speech )


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## ExMax

I have made a deep study of the thread  . 
  Now I can ginger up some informal talks with the local accent of “Servus”. My business partners from Steiermark will be surprised. Anyway, it’s a good subject for “beer-talks”  .

Hope to find something special again.


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## sokol

ExMax said:


> Now I can ginger up some informal talks with the local accent of “Servus”. My business partners from Steiermark will be surprised.


Be careful though - as said, it is a rather colloquial greeting, and if you use dialect pronunciation (in Styria it is also - mostly - /seavas/) you might come over as cordial and funny, or your business partners might think that you've overdone it.
So if you have a cordial relationship with your business partners this might turn out well - or you might even be a big success; else, that is, if you're not entirely sure about your relationship with them, I'd strongly advise not to use this.

This just for the record (for all readers of that thread), we don't want to give bad advise here, right?


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## texpert

How about the other way round? When in the Alps, I'm always greeted "servus" by the fellow mountaineers. Is it highly unusual or even inpolite to answer back otherwise (Grüss Gott or tschüss)?


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## sokol

texpert said:


> How about the other way round? When in the Alps, I'm always greeted "servus" by the fellow mountaineers. Is it highly unusual or even inpolite to answer back otherwise (Grüss Gott or tschüss)?


In the mountains you can of course use "Servus" if you're greeted with that, you can however also answer with "Grüss Gott". Not with "Tschüss" in this case - simply because that's for parting exclusively, and mountaineers _greet _each other. (Yes, the difference is minimal: you greet each other and that was it.) - And also because you never know if someone will take offence (most likely not though, as soon as they recognise you being a foreigner they won't mind) (see our Tschüss thread: even though quite some Austrians use this themselves others take offence )
- Oh, and the greeting I hear mostly in the Alps is "Grüss Gott" or "Grüss Sie", "Servus" in my experience is not that common there. It is certainly not offending to answer "Servus" with "Grüss Gott".
(On second thought, some social democrats - socialists it was once - insist on not using "Gott" at all in greetings, and I know a guy who always would answer "Grüss Gott" with a clear and loud "Freundschaft!" = the greeting marking you as a voter for SPÖ. But that's a different story. )


In general, and adding also to ExMax's question: if you are greeted with "Servus" it is perfectly okay to answer with "Servus": they will know that you, as a foreigner, may not be familiar with this greeting so you can also use any other greeting - but if you're greeted with "Servus" already then go ahead and answer with the same.  (They will of course notice that you're a foreigner, most likely as soon as you open your mouth.)

And if they pronounce "Servus" according to standard language = /seavus/ it would be safe to do the same when _you _say "Servus". 
You _can _introduce any of that dialect pronunciations, like /seavas/, if you're on easy terms - probably on a sidenote (like "Ich hab im Internet gelesen, dass man eigentlich /seavas/ sagt"), so that you don't risk anything.  You'll see then how they react.

If your contacts are very laid-back there won't be a problem with the dialect pronunciation - it really depends, you'll have to try and find out for yourself.


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## texpert

Thank you for the comprehensive explanation. 

The thing is a bit more complex as we (in the Czech Republic) use this greeting under similar circumstances (plus the obvious connotations - knowledge of it being a loaword etc.). But it's usage is, I assume, more humorous and even more confined to close circles of friends. 

As to the pronunciation, there's one more thing that goes hand in hand. I'm one of the majority of Czech speakers that never really bothered with the proper German diction, even though I'm a bit obsessed with accents and dialects in other languages. It may as well be a part of my generation's identity - admitting we were taught German at school but doing our small rebellion by being careless, if you know what I mean  

So I usually don't try very hard and say "servus" as if I was speaking Czech, it usually goes down well with everybody. Only sometimes I feel as though I was mocking myself or my companions (for the above-mentioned cultural reasons) - and then I answer "Grüss Gott" or simply nod. 

Add:
During my last year's trip to Innsbruck's area I thought I heard exclusively "Servus" - at least in the altitude of 3.000 metres and above


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## sokol

texpert said:


> So I usually don't try very hard and say servus as if I was speaking Czech, it usually goes down well with everybody. Only sometimes I feel as though I was mocking myself or my companions (for the above-mentioned cultural reasons) - and then I answer "Grüss Gott" or simply nod.


I'm not surprised by that, you'd have a foreigner's accent anyway and I guess the Czech pronunciation of "Servus" isn't that different of the Austrian standard language pronunciation anyway.
To answer with "Grüss Gott" never is wrong really (despite the "Freundschaft" anecdote mentioned above), to only nod probably is borderline concerning politeness  (I would consider a simple nod as quite stiff), but I guess it is still okay.

And for those reading this who are not at all familiar with what texpert is talking about: yes of course, hikers/mountaineers always greet each other in the Alps when they meet, even if they're complete foreigners (which, usually, they are).
Only very close to urban regions you may not greet at all: for example, in Lobau national park, which lies still inside the city limits of Vienna, most people do not greet at all.
(Only when very few people are around, for example in winter, or on isolated paths in the middle of nowhere, it happens that you greet each other there.)



texpert said:


> Add:
> During my last year's trip to Innsbruck's area I think I heard exclusively "Servus" - at least above the altitude of 3.000m


That's interesting. 
At least in the east - in Wienerwald and Semmering region - what you hear most of the times is "Grüss Gott"; and in Mühlviertel, Upper Austria where I grew up locals greet hikers/mountaineers*) with the informal version of that ("per Du"-version = "Griasdi") and foreigners with "Grias Gott", "Servus" is used in villages but usually not to greet hikers.

*) Mühlviertel has no big mountains, admittedly (they're only about the size of the Czech ones ); still hikers we have there.


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## ExMax

Sokol (Falcon?  ), thank you for your link to “Tschüss”. "Wiederschaun" is written down 


sokol said:


> ...we don't want to give bad advise here


Absolutely! That is the reason we are here, gelle? 
But joking aside, I wrote myself somewhere in the forum that there is a really thin line between different synonyms of formal, casual, informal, slang or vulgar vocabulary, and a foreigner can “cross the line” unconsciously, because general dictionaries usually don’t accent it a certain way. Of course, I never say something like “Hi, guys!” or “Seavas” during negotiations or any other kind of a business meeting. All these funny tricks are acceptable in really informal situations between good friends, and this is to emphasize my interest in their language, culture, life etc.
 But I don’t want to be harsh or vulgar anyway. So thank you again for the comprehensive information.


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## Johann Gasser

sokol said:


> That's interesting.
> At least in the east - in Wienerwald and Semmering region - what you hear most of the times is "Grüss Gott"; and in Mühlviertel, Upper Austria where I grew up locals greet hikers/mountaineers*) with the informal version of that ("per Du"-version = "Griasdi") and foreigners with "Grias Gott", "Servus" is used in villages but usually not to greet hikers.



Yes, I agree it is most interesting to follow this conversation.  Of course, "Sei Gegruesst' , or 'Seien'se Gegruesst' never did offend anyone to my knowledge.  I was told by my teacher that 'ein Mundfauler' would resort to abreviated forms of speech, hence the usage ............!  By this is meant a person who is essentially lazy in his employment of words...!


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## sokol

ExMax said:


> Sokol (Falcon?  ) Falcon indeed  ...
> Of course, I never say something like “Hi, guys!” or “Seavas” during negotiations or any other kind of a business meeting. All these funny tricks are acceptable in really informal situations between good friends, and this is to emphasize my interest in their language, culture, life etc.
> But I don’t want to be harsh or vulgar anyway. So thank you again for the comprehensive information.


Yes, that's the right approach. 
Stay serious during negotiations, except if your contacts are extremely laid back, and you can try that "Seavas" pronunciation in case you're going for a drink later with that guys and if the situation is more relaxed. 

And: you couldn't possibly be vulgar or harsh with "Servus" (whatever pronunciation you choose); but it might happen that your contacts think you're becoming too personal for their liking. Or they might just find it funny, a foreigner using this - which might be "funny what a nice guy" but also could come over as "funny what a clown that is": so yes, here you have your thin line which foreigners easily could cross.
Thus, keep careful.


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## Johann Gasser

Have given the topic of 'Servus' some additional thought and have concluded that we all may be splitting hairs.  Let me explain, notwithstanding the expertise given above or the ubiquitous source 'WIKI',  may not the word have 'Latin' origins but which Latin, the vernacular?  It seems to me that the passage of time has a way of corrupting the meaning and the actual spelling.  Surely at the root of it all it expresses a subservient or humble role; and, it is quite possible that this adaptation of multi-purpose words was quite widespread and acted as a lubricant in everyday dialogue.  In other words, when people spoke, I am thinking here of Diplomats and Statesman, they spoke neutrally without surrendering their exalted status.  One can think of 'Metternich' as the prime example. Whether or not he ever said 'Servus' we do not know but then on the other hand ....!  

So, to me then Servus means (as a return greeting):'At your Service'and indicates: 'Sir (friend) you have my attention'.    And as a parting salutation:  'Stay alert, be well'!

It will be interesting to see what happens next.  Servus.


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## Johann Gasser

Again, on the topic of 'Servus' and/or 'Gruess Gott':   "Co-incidentally, almost 65 years to the day, I was in the 'Wiener Prater', waiting for a ride on the Riesenrad, and heard a tune with the following words: 'Mei' Hut der hat drei Eck'rl, drei Eck'rl hat mei' Hut und wen Er net drei Eck'rln hat dan ist Er net mei Hut'....  This tune has reminded me of the habits of people when the greet each other on the streets of Wien and elsewhere, particulalry men, they would grab (finger) their Hat at the 'Drei Eck'rl', lift it off their head, and say: Gruess Gott, or 'Wiederschaun (Gnaedige Frau), or some other unmentionable greeting like 'H.H.'.  How high the Hat was raised depended on the perceived status of the person being greeted. Even in the trying times that long ago this cultural habit was practiced notwithstanding the strictures of the day".  By the kind of greeting being uttered and the intonation employed one could distinguish between friend or foe, very important in those days.  
In conclusion, I think it is important to know the context and situation of word-usage. And, how the application and meanings take on different flavours as times change, cultural shifts (migration) occurr, and economic prosperity or disorder affect the expressions of 'happiness, insecurity or discontent'.  

Thank you for your patience!


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## Gabriel R.

Servus is actually used a lot in Transylvania, both by Romanians and Hungarians. And we are convinced it's our thing, and if anybody else is using it they surely got it from us


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## berndf

Gabriel R. said:


> Servus is actually used a lot in Transylvania, both by Romanians and Hungarians.


Which makes a lot of sense as that part of Romania was under Habsburg rule for more than 200 years.





Gabriel R. said:


> And we are convinced it's our thing, if anybody else is using it they surely got it from us


Of course.


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## Green Linnet

Johann Gasser said:


> It is interesting to look at some correspondence (Writing of letters) that was generated between the average citizen and the bureaucracy. And there one finds something eye catching.  Namely,  the closing line would/could read as follows:  ....und so verbleibe ich mit Herzlichen Gruessen _Ihr._.. XXX/.   It could actually mean: .... with heatfelt greeting I remain _your _(Servant) XXX (not to be vulgar but this is considered by some a form of 'sucking up'.  AKA: 'false humility').
> 
> (i_n the English language this ending can be: 'Yours truly', or 'Sincerely, yours'. 'Yours' meaning *at your service*')._
> 
> But, between friends and family, Servus or Tschuess would suffice. When communicating orally the greeting or salutaion informally (relaxed) is and was Servus at the beginning and end.  'Tschuess' is another topic altogether.
> 
> Of course, the meaning and origin of the word 'Servus' is one thing but has anybody given any thought to_ intonation_ applied by the speaker and how this could alter the salutations meaning and intent?


On the general point of people using different words and phrases for greetings and farewells: I have no expertise on the historical development of that kind of terminology, but I suspect it changed quite slowly in the past (except when war and migration moved people around). But in modern times, it seems to me that the terms used change rapidly, everywhere. In my own small country (Ireland), I became aware long ago that different terms were used in different parts of the country; as I grew older, I became aware that they also changed quite a lot over time. Between television, travel, popular music, and other forms of international and inter-regional contact, changes of that kind have probably been accelerated.
Particular ways of greeting and bidding farewell become popular, even trendy, and later get supplanted. I'm pretty sure that many Spaniards I have heard saying "bon dia" or "agur" had probably never set foot in Catalonia or the Basque Country; and I'm pretty sure their parents never used those terms (may not, in some cases, even have heard them). On a walking trip that took me in and out of Germany (along the Mosel/Moselle) a couple of years ago, I greeted German walkers with "Guten Tag"; I think about 19 out of 20 of them said "Hallo!"


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## Şafak

Wäre es angemessen "Servus" zur Begrüßung / Verabschiedung zu sagen, wenn ich in Österreich z.B die Polizei anrufe?


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## berndf

Ich würde es nicht tun.


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## Şafak

berndf said:


> Ich würde es nicht tun.


Danke. Ich versuche einfach zu verstehen, wie informell Servus ist.


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## pouw

texpert said:


> How about the other way round? When in the Alps, I'm always greeted "servus" by the fellow mountaineers. Is it highly unusual or even inpolite to answer back otherwise (Grüss Gott or tschüss)?


In my Alps it is: _Grias di/aich_ and _Pfüat di/aich_ for friendly greetings and goodbyes, _servus_ for neutral greeting (men around 30- 40), _Grüß Gott _or _Grias ianen _for 65+, _Hallo_ for age 15 - 25. _Guten Tag_/_Tschüss _for hard core tourists.


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