# hypothetically, theoretically



## Andrew___

May I say: أتكلم بشكل ظني to mean "I am speaking in a hypothetical manner".

*Context:* "All the employees can hypothetically take their holidays in December according to their contracts, but management would never allow everyone to take their annual leave at the same time.


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## ayed

*أتكلم فرضاً*


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## Xence

What about this turn of phrase?

ما أقوله يبقى مجرد افتراض


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## Andrew___

Thanks guys.

So I take it that ظني is not suitable in this context.


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## Mahaodeh

I think it should be نظري; the expression فرضي works in other contexts, when the word hypothetical is the opposite of factual (فرضية - حقيقة) but here hypothetically is the opposite of realisticly (نظريا - عمليا). I'm not sure I expressed my idea correctly.

I would translate it as: نظريًا يمكن لكافة الموظفين أخذ إجازاتهم في كانون الأول حسب عقودهم إلا أن الإدارة لن تسمح لكل المظفين بأخذ إجازاتهم في نفس الوقت.


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## Andrew___

This is a nice sentence Maha.  Many thanks for your explanation.


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## elroy

Yes, I too was going to suggest نظريًا. I don't think anything with ف-ر-ض would work here...


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## Xence

Well, let's disagree a little here, elroy. 

Maha's نظرياً is, indeed, a good suggestion. I would use it too in the same context, but I could also say:

ا(من) المفروض أن كافة الموظفين يأخذون إجازاتهم في كانون الأول حسب عقودهم، إلا أن الإدارة لن تسمح للجميع بالذهاب في نفس الوقت​


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## elroy

We disagree indeed. 

Your sentence means "Employees are supposed to/expected to go on vacation in December," which means something very different from "Hypothetically, employees can go on vacation in Decmber."

I would be more open to a suggestion like ...من المفروض أن يسمح لكافة الموظفين, but even that isn't ideal, because it suggests that the employees aren't _really_ allowed to go on vacation in December (when in reality they are, technically; it's just that in practice they don't always get permission to.)

The thing is, "hypothetically" in this context really means the same thing as "theoretically," so a translation with المفروض or something similar is too literal in my opinion.


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## Xence

elroy said:


> We disagree indeed.
> 
> Your sentence means "Employees are supposed to/expected to go on vacation in December," which means something *very different* from "Hypothetically, employees can go on vacation in Decmber."


Can you please elaborate more on this _difference_?

***

Besides, here's what I have found in the English Collins Dictionary :



> *hypothetical*:  If something is _hypothetical_, it is based on possible ideas or situations rather than actual ones. _*adj*_ (=_theoretical_)


 


> *theoretically*:  You use _theoretically_ to say that although something is _supposed to be true or to happen_ in the way stated, it may not in fact be true or happen in that way.
> 
> Source


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## elroy

Your sentence means that it is من المفروض for employees to go on vacation in December specifically, whereas the original English sentence is only saying that in theory they have that _option_.

I'm not sure why you shared those dictionary entries.


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## Xence

> Your sentence means that it is من المفروض for employees to go on vacation in December specifically, whereas the original English sentence is only saying that in theory they have that _option_.


That's not my point here. If you want I can add يسمح لهم as you mentioned yourself, or بإمكانهم :
ا(من) المفروض أن كافة الموظفين بإمكانهم أن يأخذوا إجازاتهم في كانون الأول حسب عقودهم، إلا أن الإدارة لن تسمح للجميع بالذهاب في نفس الوقت​My point is that من المفروض أن and نظريا convey the same meaning, and that's also the reason for sharing the above dictionary entries. ​


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## elroy

I think adding بإمكانهم makes a *huge* difference! That sentence does express the meaning, but stylistically it's not my preference. Using يسمح لهم is problematic for reasons I've already stated.

I still think نظريًا is the best option, and I see no reason to use anything else.


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## Xence

As for me, even if I agree that نظريا  is a good option, sometimes  من المفروض أن  comes more naturally and spontaneously.


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## clevermizo

Xence said:


> Can you please elaborate more on this _difference_?
> 
> ***



I'm colored by the fact that I work in research science, so "theoretically" and "hypothetically" mean perhaps different things to me than they would to someone who does not use words like "hypothesis" and "theory" professionally.

When I hear that "Hypothetically, employees can go on vacation in December" it means that 1) employees can go on vacation in December, and 2) no employees have ever been observed to go on vacation in December, so the statement is "untested/unverified."

When I hear "In theory/theoretically, employees can go on vacation in December" it means: 1) Employees can go on vacation in December, 2) Employees have been observed to go on vacation ("tested" statement), and 3) However, we don't necessarily know if they will go this year, so perhaps there is a possibility they won't.

However these sorts of words in English might actually be synonymous in every day speech, even though I tend to be more technical with my understanding of them because I use them at work.

Also, colloquially I will add that "Theoretically" almost always introduces a statement the speaker believes to be contrary-to-fact or that they think things will not be as stated, whereas "Hypothetically" almost always introduces a statement which the speaker believes to simply be "possible" - dictionary definitions notwithstanding (English doesn't even have standardization anyway). This to me is Maha's distinction above between فرضي and نظري.


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## elroy

I think that in relaxed speech the terms are often blurred.  I would actually prefer "theoretically" to "hypothetically" in Andrew's sentence, but what I would probably use myself is "technically."


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