# block [city block: US vs BE]



## presl

Hi! 

In this context, does the word “block” mean “the building that contains flats”, or “a group of buildings with streets on all sides” ??

I think these two definitions are both suitable for this context ... but I could not figure out which one is better. Could you make me some your suggestions. Many thanks!


(Prison Break)

Veronica: ... ... A questionable phone call is not gonna stack up to that.

Lincoln: But it's something, right?

Nick: Absolutely. We got an area code, and my contact is gonna track that number to someplace more specific, a building, a neighborhood, a *block*, to the person who made this phone call.


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## panjandrum

The sequence - building, neighbourhood, block - suggests increasing size.
With that in mind, I assume block means "a group of buildings with streets on all sides".


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## presl

panjandrum said:


> The sequence - building, neighbourhood, block - suggests increasing size.
> With that in mind, I assume block means "a group of buildings with streets on all sides".


 
You are right!  panjandrum!  

Thanks for your help!


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Unfortunately, Panj is not right; a block is considerably smaller than a neighborhood.

In American English, a "block" is a single area of land that is bounded on all sides by streets. Most American cities have rectilinear grids of streets, and "blocks" are quadrilaterals with houses facing outward on all sides, bounded by four different streets. The typical "block" in the middle of New York City, for example, is exactly 200 feet (60 meters) deep, and approximately 500 feet (150 meters) long.


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## presl

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Unfortunately, Panj is not right; a block is considerably smaller than a neighborhood.
> 
> In American English, a "block" is a single area of land that is bounded on all sides by streets. Most American cities have rectilinear grids of streets, and "blocks" are quadrilaterals with houses facing outward on all sides, bounded by four different streets. The typical "block" in the middle of New York City, for example, is exactly 200 feet (60 meters) deep, and approximately 500 feet (150 meters) long.


 
Hi!  GreenWhiteBlue,

Thank you very much for telling me about the American usage of this word "block" !

It is helpful to me!     Thank you!


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## Antara Manova

Could anyone tell me what is the British word choice of "block"?
Thanks!


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## Florentia52

Antara Manova said:


> Could anyone tell me what is the British word choice of "block"?
> Thanks!


In what context, Antara Manova? Please give us a complete sentence.


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## Antara Manova

Hi,
this is the sentence: "I turned back the way I’d come, retracing my steps along the few blocks to my building."
My editor says block is sometimes used in BrEn but not so often.


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## RM1(SS)

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> In American English, a "block" is a single area of land that is bounded on all sides by streets. Most American cities have rectilinear grids of streets, and "blocks" are quadrilaterals with houses facing outward on all sides, bounded by four different streets. The typical "block" in the middle of New York City, for example, is exactly 200 feet (60 meters) deep, and approximately 500 feet (150 meters) long.


I would call that a _square block_.  To me a block is a section of a single street, from one side street to the next.
"We're looking for the 600 block of Elm Street."
"I took the dog out for a walk this morning - we went about five blocks, then came back."


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## Loob

Antara Manova said:


> Could anyone tell me what is the British word choice of "block"?
> Thanks!


We don't have an equivalent in BrE, Antara.


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## Antara Manova

Loob said:


> We don't have an equivalent in BrE, Antara.


So, then how do you describe it or you simply use the AmEn equivalent?


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## Loob

Cities in the UK are not built on a grid pattern, so there's no equivalent for the term to apply to.

A BrE-speaker wanting to refer to the American concept would use "block".


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## RM1(SS)

What would you call what I described in post 9?


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## Loob

Are you asking me to decide between "block" and "square block", RM1?  If so, you're asking the wrong person - I've never heard the term "square block".


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## RM1(SS)

No, I'm asking what term you would use when referring to the thing that I described.


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## Loob

I'm not sure what the thing you described is, RM1....

Is the correct answer to your question "block"?


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## Myridon

Loob said:


> Cities in the UK are not built on a grid pattern, so there's no equivalent for the term to apply to.


It's a misconception that blocks require a grid pattern.  Blocks do not have to be rectangular or evenly spaced.  When I look at a map of London, I see lots of blocks even though you don't.
A block is any section of a street whose ends are marked by other streets or the end of a street or a very sharp curve or ...


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## Loob

Myridon said:


> ...When I look at a map of London, I see lots of blocks even though you don't....


QED


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## RM1(SS)

Loob said:


> I'm not sure what the thing you described is, RM1....
> 
> Is the correct answer to your question "block"?


How would I know?  If I knew what you'd call it I wouldn't have to ask.


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## Loob

RM1, the point I've been making throughout is that BrE-speakers don't use the term "block" in relation to UK towns/cities.  

Myridon put it well in post 17:


Myridon said:


> When I look at a map of London, I see lots of blocks even though you don't.


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## JulianStuart

RM1(SS) said:


> I would call that a _square block_.  To me a block is a section of a single street, from one side street to the next.
> "We're looking for the 600 block of Elm Street."
> "I took the dog out for a walk this morning - we went about five blocks, then came back."


Street numbers on a typical UK street do not jump by 100 at each street (the way US ones typically do) , so the concept of a "600 block" does not even exist. Street layouts are so variable that the concept of a word like "block" having some implication of it representing a mutually understandable size or distance does not exist.  Distances are reckoned in, well, distances, like yards (or by now maybe metres). The word just isn't used in BE (except to refer to a "block of flats" = apartment building)


Even in the US the term is variable/vague. From the wiki City block - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the spacing of streets in grid plans varies so widely among cities, or even within cities, it is difficult to generalize about the size of a city block. However, as reference points, the standard square blocks of Portland, Houston, and Sacramento are *260* by 260 feet (79 m × 79 m), 330 by 330 feet (100 m × 100 m), and 410 by 410 feet (120 m × 120 m) respectively (to the street center line). Oblong blocks range considerably in width and length. The standard block in Manhattan is about 264 by *900* feet (80 m × 274 m); and in some U.S. cities standard blocks are as wide as 660 feet (200 m).


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## velisarius

I'm sure British architects and topographers must have a word for this, as they must have a word for a parcel of land that is surrounded on all sides by roads/streets. I wish I knew what it is (or what they are). These things are assigned numbers for easy reference, so my house might be located on " [block?] no. 123".


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## RM1(SS)

Loob said:


> RM1, the point I've been making throughout is that BrE-speakers don't use the term "block" in relation to UK towns/cities.


Collins:

*block*
9. a group of buildings in a city bounded by intersecting streets on each side
*10. the area or distance between such intersecting streets*

So you would never use the word in reference to either of these meanings?  What term would you use, then, for definition 10?


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## JulianStuart

RM1(SS) said:


> Collins:
> 
> *block*
> 9. a group of buildings in a city bounded by intersecting streets on each side
> *10. the area or distance between such intersecting streets*
> 
> So you would never use the word in reference to either of these meanings?  What term would you use, then, for definition 10?


There is even less regularity in UK towns than in the US so there is no term in BE for that concept - it implies a certain distance in US usage and within a particular city it is meaningful and understood. (see#21)   As Velisarius noted, there may be some usage by architects and city/county planning/permit departments to refer to certain parcels of land or groups of parcels as "blocks" - we'd need input from someone in the field in the UK to address that specific.  Below is a map of the (old) centre of York in Yorkshire (pop., 205,000) to illustrate how little utility there would be in using the term outside a grid layout to refer to specific areas or distances The distances are all irregular and house numbers do not change at intersections, so the name of a block, as an area, would have to use the names of all the relevant streets.  (Not to mention that the name of a street can change as it goes in a steady direction - so as you drive along, York Road becomes Tadcaster Road and vice versa etc)
So, no term in BE corresponds to the US usage of the word.


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## JamesM

RM1(SS) said:


> I would call that a _square block_.  To me a block is a section of a single street, from one side street to the next.
> "We're looking for the 600 block of Elm Street."
> "I took the dog out for a walk this morning - we went about five blocks, then came back."



This is the same for me, too, or "city blocks" when talking about area.  "If the bomb had detonated it would have taken out (an area the size of) five square/city blocks."

A block is a segment of the street delineated by two cross streets, as I understand it.


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## JulianStuart

JamesM said:


> This is the same for me, too, or "city blocks" when talking about area.  "If the bomb had detonated it would have taken out (an area the size of) five square/city blocks."
> 
> A block is a segment of the street delineated by two cross streets, as I understand it.


That is how I now use it, too  But only since I left the UK.


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## RM1(SS)

Looking at that map: If we were standing at the intersection of Museum St and Lendal, and you asked me how to get to Piccadilly, I would point down Lendal and say, "Go that way four blocks, turn left, go one block, and turn right; you'll be on Piccadilly."  This would be meaningless to you BrE speakers?  How would you say it?


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## natkretep

We don't talk about blocks as in AmE because our streets are not laid out in a grid pattern either.

In your situation, I might say, 'Go down this way (Lendal) and take the fourth left and the first right.' In other words, we count the streets rather than the 'blocks'.

(I was in York in June. Thanks for reminding me of it!)


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## JulianStuart

RM1(SS) said:


> Looking at that map: If we were standing at the intersection of Museum St and Lendal, and you asked me how to get to Piccadilly, I would point down Lendal and say, "Go that way four blocks, turn left, go one block, and turn right; you'll be on Piccadilly."  This would be meaningless to you BrE speakers?  How would you say it?


The use of block would mark you as American but might be decoded
One way might be: Go straight down there (indicating Lendal Street), go about 1/4 mile, until you can turn into Coppergate or High Ousegate I think it's the fourth or fifth on your left, and go down there and then take the first right onto Picadilly.

Cross-posted I have fond memories of York doing my Ph. D. there - spectacular cathedral/minster.


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## Hermione Golightly

The term 'block' probably wouldn't be 'meaningless', since many of us are very familiar with American terminology, and the context and accent would help our understanding, although we might seek confirmation by replying 'So that's the fourth (street) on the left?'


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## JulianStuart

Hermione Golightly said:


> The term 'block' probably wouldn't be 'meaningless', since many of us are very familiar with American terminology, and the context and accent would help our understanding, although we might seek confirmation by replying 'So that's the fourth (street) on the left?'


Indeed. We BE speakers can understand many words/usages that are unique to AE (such as sidewalk), and this is one of them, but we don't use them. Instead of "Go four blocks and turn left" we would say "Go straight and take the fourth left" or similar.


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## By-the-sea

This is quite fascinating. In Edinburgh English, at least, block seems to be used in the same way as in the US - to refer to a row of buildings between two side streets. When I was a child my life revolved around 'the block', with my mum saying things like 'stay on the block', don't go further than the block. As school kids we would be told to 'run round the block' as exercise. And we give directions like 'it's the last stair in the block' or 'it's about two blocks down the street'. So English folk probably never understand my directions Just out of interest how would English parents give this instructions?


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## Hermione Golightly

> When I was a child my life revolved around 'the block', with my mum saying things like 'stay on the block', don't go further than the block. As school kids we would be told to 'run round the block' as exercise



It _is_ interesting because I remember now we used 'block'when talking about the group of exactly similar semi-detached houses bounded on each side by streets, but in the suburbs, not the city. Being allowed to ride our bikes 'round the block' was a major milestone in our childhood. 
But it sounds a bit different from your 'block', By-the-sea. Our 'block- was two lines of identical mid-war houses in different streets with back gardens adjoining, about 20 pairs or 40 street numbers long. There were no houses along the ends of the block but the four corner houses were slightly larger and had much larger gardens. 'Riding round the block' meant staying on the pavement. I can't think of 'block' being used in any other way unless perhaps to say that somebody lived 'on our block', but that meant the same as 'on our street'. We kids had nothing to do with the other streets.


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## Keith Bradford

By-the-sea said:


> ... we give directions like 'it's the last stair in the block' or 'it's about two blocks down the street'. ... how would English parents give this instructions?



We *do* talk about blocks, but with a different meaning and we would specify.  We'd talk about "a block of houses (the situation Hermione describes in #33)... a block of flats... an office block..."  The more Americanised among us might even utter "apartment block..."

What we usually do is convert "block" to "street".  So AE "He lives five blocks away" becomes BE "He lives five streets away" and Scottish "stay on the block" would become "don't cross the street".


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## dermott

Just to complicate things, I was born and grew up in Melbourne. The city centre is a perfect grid pattern. 






We used to talk about the block between, for example, Russell and Swanston Streets.


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## heypresto

Just to add another BE voice, my experience of 'blocks' is exactly the same as Hermione's in post #33. We would ride or walk round 'the block' opposite our house.


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## Myridon

JulianStuart said:


> There is even less regularity in UK towns than in the US so there is no term in BE for that concept - it implies a certain distance in US usage and within a particular city it is meaningful and understood. (see#21)   As Velisarius noted, there may be some usage by architects and city/county planning/permit departments to refer to certain parcels of land or groups of parcels as "blocks" - we'd need input from someone in the field in the UK to address that specific.  Below is a map of the (old) centre of York in Yorkshire (pop., 205,000) to illustrate how little utility there would be in using the term outside a grid layout to refer to specific areas or distances The distances are all irregular and house numbers do not change at intersections, so the name of a block, as an area, would have to use the names of all the relevant streets.  (Not to mention that the name of a street can change as it goes in a steady direction - so as you drive along, York Road becomes Tadcaster Road and vice versa etc)
> So, no term in BE corresponds to the US usage of the word.


All of this is true of US cities as well though. There is no "certain" distance.  Even if there is a grid-like section of a city, there is likely another section nearby where the blocks have different lengths and proportions.  We use it even when there is no grid whatsoever and the streets are "curly" and meet at strange angles or six streets meet at the same intersection/crossroads.  The block I live on changes numbers in the the middle.  I lived on a street where the houses were just numbered sequentially.  We have streets that change names, streets where the numbers start over several times passing from suburb to suburb, streets that go around corners ...  None of that destroys the abstract concept of "blocks."


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## JulianStuart

The term block is used in some contexts in BE and Collins definition 9 in post 23 shows that. Some parts of Edinburgh are a wonderful example of a grid layout, for example, 



RM1(SS) said:


> Collins:
> *block*
> 9. a group of buildings in a city bounded by intersecting streets on each side
> *10. the area or distance between such intersecting streets*
> 
> So you would never use the word in reference to either of these meanings?  What term would you use, then, for definition 10?


My attempts have been aimed at addressing the question about definition 10 in that same post,  using the term to define address/location or distance, the main uses in AE.  I wonder if any BE speakers use terms in the AE manner like: "the 600 block of Regent Street" or "I'm tired because there was no bus and I had to walk ten blocks"?


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## heypresto

If I heard "the 600 block of Regent Street", I wouldn't have a clue what it meant. Maybe they had knocked down Hamleys and built a posh new block of flats and called it 'The 600'?

I can't imagine anyone in the UK saying "I'm tired because there was no bus and I had to walk ten blocks". I suspect we would either estimate/approximate the distance walked ' . . . I had to walk a mile and a half', or exaggerate with something like ' . . . I had to walk *%@*! miles'.


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## Andygc

JulianStuart said:


> I wonder if any BE speakers use terms in the AE manner like: "the 600 block of Regent Street" or "I'm tired because there was no bus and I had to walk ten blocks"?


Never*. The only use of block that I would see as natural in English English is the use in #33 and #36. To me, the use of "block" to mean


> 9. a group of buildings in a city bounded by intersecting streets on each side
> 10. the area or distance between such intersecting streets


is a North Americanism. I also now know, having seen this thread and looked in the OED, that it is also used in Australian and NZ English to mean a plot of building land.

*Unless I was in North America, of course.


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## Packard

A  city block in Manhattan is a semi-fixed distance.  

North-South blocks are 20 blocks to a mile.
The distance between Avenues (east/west) varies somewhat but is about 900 feet in most areas.

I don't know if this sort of fixed distance holds in any other city.  I've never heard of it elsewhere.


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## JulianStuart

Packard said:


> A  city block in Manhattan is a semi-fixed distance.
> 
> North-South blocks are 20 blocks to a mile.
> The distance between Avenues (east/west) varies somewhat but is about 900 feet in most areas.
> 
> I don't know if this sort of fixed distance holds in any other city.  I've never heard of it elsewhere.


See post #21 for some other examples.  So an EW block (900 ft) is bigger than a NS block (260 ft).  When someone in Manhattan says "It's ten blocks from here" do they need to specify which kind of block or is it understood based on the addition of a direction?


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## Packard

JulianStuart said:


> See post #21 for some other examples.  So an EW block (900 ft) is bigger than a NS block (260 ft).  When someone in Manhattan says "It's ten blocks from here" do they need to specify which kind of block or is it understood based on the addition of a direction?



They are usually talking about the short blocks.  On the rare occasions I go to Manhattan I only ever heard reference to the short blocks as fixed in size.

I was surprised to read recently that most Manhattan dwellers were more cardio-fit than their suburban neighbors.  Where the suburban neighbor hops in his car to go to the market, a restaurant, or to the dry cleaner; the Manhattan dweller walks to most of these locations.  Indeed, in the greater part they select restaurants, dry cleaners, coffee shops, shoe repair shops, etc. based upon how convenient it was to walk to those locations.  It went contrary to my pre-conceived notions.

This from the New York Times:  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/17/nyregion/thecity/17fyi.html?_r=0

North-south is easy: about 20 blocks to a mile. The annual Fifth Avenue Mile, for example, is a race from 80th to 60th Street.


The distance between avenues is more complicated. In general, one long block between the avenues equals three short blocks, but the distance varies, with some avenues as far apart as 920 feet. John Tauranac, in the “Manhattan Block by Block” street atlas, gives the average distance between avenues as 750 feet, or about seven avenues to a mile.


“At a pace of three miles an hour,” he adds helpfully, “you should figure an uptown-downtown walk at about one minute per block, and three to five minutes per crosstown block.”


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## Myridon

Packard said:


> A  city block in Manhattan is a semi-fixed distance.
> 
> North-South blocks are 20 blocks to a mile.
> The distance between Avenues (east/west) varies somewhat but is about 900 feet in most areas.
> 
> I don't know if this sort of fixed distance holds in any other city.  I've never heard of it elsewhere.


I looked at a map of Manhattan this morning.  There are multiple sections laid out in grids of different sizes (ignoring the areas that aren't very grid-ike (West Village), Broadway crashing through at an angle, etc).  Midtown blocks are not like Central Park West are not like Central Park East, etc.  The streets that run the length of the island are not evenly spaced.


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## RM1(SS)

Keith Bradford said:


> a block of flats... an office block..."  The more Americanised among us might even utter "apartment block..."


To me that would be a single building containing flats/apartments or offices.


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## RM1(SS)

Myridon said:


> We use it even when there is no grid whatsoever and the streets are "curly" and meet at strange angles or six streets meet at the same intersection/crossroads.


As I did in #27.  The distance along Lendal from Museum St to Stonegate appears to at least twice the distance from Market St to High Ousegate along ... Coney St? Court St?  (I can't read that word) ... but I would call them both "one block": The distance along a street from one intersection to the next.


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## Loob

Keith puts it well in post 34, RM1.

In BrE we don't usually use the term "block" for distances - we're more likely to talk in terms of "streets".  To quote Keith:


Keith Bradford said:


> What we usually do is convert "block" to "street". So AE "He lives five blocks away" becomes BE "He lives five streets away"


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## JulianStuart

RM1(SS) said:


> As I did in #27.  The distance along Lendal from Museum St to Stonegate appears to at least twice the distance from Market St to High Ousegate along ... Coney St? Court St?  (I can't read that word) ... but I would call them both "one block": The distance along a street from one intersection to the next.


And if that were a map of a  city in New England, I expect many people there would understand it as intended (and I will now be better informed if I don't have a GPS phone and need to ask directions in old Boston) .  However, recapitulating post 6 and 10, it is not used in BE.

(Just like "Stay on the pavement children" would be good safety advice in England but disastrous in the US!)


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