# Our story lives (on) in our blood [family motto]



## PrplPplEtr

Hello All,

I'm trying to develop a motto for our family. 

My single year of studying Latin was far too long ago to be of much use to me in this. I'd like to get things as accurate as possible and avoid any hints of the "Romanes eunt domus" syndrome.  Unfortunately, my knowledge of cases, declensions, moods, etc. is limited to a simple awareness of their existence.  I've done SOME research but I was hoping to get some help from some people with a far deeper knowledge than me.

The phrase I'm looking to translate is: "Our story lives (on) in our blood"

My best efforts, and Google translate (Shh! I know! That's why I'm here!) have resulted in: "fabula in sanguine nostro vivitur"

"fabula": (n) feminine singular nominative
"sanguine": (n) masculine singular ablative
"nostro": (adj) masculine singular ablative
"vivitur": (v) 3rd person singular indicative passive

My word order is based on the pattern: subject, direct object, indirect object, adverbial words or phrases, verb.

If I enter this in Google, I get: "play in our blood and lives"

However, if I enter "fabula vivit in sanguine nostro", I get: "The story lives on in our blood".

Obviously, the second result is closer to what I'm after (excepting that "the story" should be "our story") but this seems to violate the proscribed word order pattern.

Can any of you folks offer some guidance?

Cheers!


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## metaphrastes

I will risk some guesses, here, not being a Latinist.

I am not sure if _fabula _is the best choice of word for _story, _since it means also _fable, (legendary) tale_, while you are speaking about real people some of them you knew, your ancestors.

I would suggest two options: 
_historia (feminine noun) _that means not only _history, _but also _story, account;_
and _narratus (masculine noun), _that means _narrative, story._
I leave to experts saying what word would be better in this context.

Now, the _our: _it should just agree in gender, number and case with the noun you chose. Thus, _historia nostra (nominative singular feminine) _or _narratus noster (nominative singular masculine).
_
Now, the verb choice: _to live on _may have or receive different connotations, that probably would have a more specific rendering in Latin: _to subsist, to last, to survive, to endure. _Now, if you choose the meaning _to live, _it goes as saying that your ancestors are alive in or through their offspring. In this case, _vivit _works finely.

However, _subsisting, lasting, _emphasizes more the continuity through time, through generations. I think the Latin verb _subsisto _would work finely, although there might be better synonyms than that.

Thus I would suggest:
_historia nostra vivit in sanguine nostro
historia nostra subsistit in sanguine nostro
narratus noster vivit in sanguine nostro
narratus noster subsistit in sanguine nostro_​
As you know changing words order would emphasize more some aspects. Thus it seems interesting to emphasize more _blood_, departing from a concrete concept to a more abstract one, which is more striking: _in sanguine nostro historia nostra subsistit.
_
Now I wait eagerly for being corrected by true experts in Latin language, so that I may learn together with you


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## Pugnator

Little note: You can both use nostro and nostri and nostrum and nostrorum because you could use the genitive of the pronoun to make it possessive.


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## radagasty

For a literal rendering, metaphrastes' first suggestion is fine, although I would reverse the word order:

IN SANGUINE NOSTRO VIVIT HISTORIA NOSTRA

This strikes me as being a little wordy, though, and perhaps overly literal. A motto of this sort commonly bears the repetition of words, but the repetition of _noster_ here seems somewhat otiose.

As an alternative suggestion, how about simply:

SANGUIS NOBIS MONUMENTUM



Pugnator said:


> You can both use nostro and nostri and nostrum and nostrorum because you could use the genitive of the pronoun to make it possessive.



I'm afraid I disagree. There seems to be no little confusion of forms here, but the personal pronoun in the genitive (_nostri_/_nostrum_) is not a legitimate alternative to the possessive adjective _noster, nostra, nostrum_ in metaphrastes' suggestions.


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## Pugnator

radagasty said:


> I'm afraid I disagree. There seems to be no little confusion of forms here, but the personal pronoun in the genitive (_nostri_/_nostrum_) is not a legitimate alternative to the possessive adjective _noster, nostra, nostrum_ in metaphrastes' suggestions.


Nope, it is. The genitive of personal pronoun (in this case Nos) could be used to denote possession, the most famous example is Eius but the same thing could be done with all the personal pronoun.  In this discussion ( Don't dream your life. Live your dreams ) I presented a lot of classical AND not-classical citation to prove that I'm right (In that topic the pronoun was Tui, genitive of Tu, but it's the same for every personal pronoun, so  you could find if you search a lot of exempla of Nostri/nostrum/nostrorum used as possessive ).


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## Scholiast

salvete omnes!

Since _amicus noster_ Pugnator has resurrected this theme, with a reference to a previous thread which led to a similar controversy (## 3, 5), it needs once again to be firmly stated that in classical Latin the genitives _mei_, _tui_, _nostri_,_ vestri_ are simply not used as possessive or attributive qualifiers as if they were equivalent to the pronominal adjectives _meus_, _tuus_ &c. The examples he cites there, from Cic. _Att. _(_tui defensor_), Virg. _Aen._ (_amore tui_) Tac. _Ann. _(_tui memoria_ - a typically Tacitean extension of _memor tui_, and indeed of the use of the genitive with _meminisse_), Martial (_desiderio tui_), are all examples of the "objective" genitive as explained in A&G § 143.

Moreover _sanctitas tui_, which he also cites from Aug. _Conf._ 13.7, is not an example at all: _tui_ there is precisely a pronominal adjective, in agreement with the gen. sing. _spiritus_ earlier in the same sentence, and in rhetorical contrast with _nostri_ ("immunditia spiritus nostri defluens inferius...sanctitas tui [spiritus] attollens nos superius..." - "the uncleanliness of our [own, human] spirit dragging us down... the holiness of yours [God's] bearing us up...").

Σ


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## Pugnator

Scholiast said:


> Since _amicus noster_ Pugnator has resurrected this theme, with a reference to a previous thread which led to a similar controversy (## 3, 5), it needs once again to be firmly stated that in classical Latin the genitives _mei_, _tui_, _nostri_,_ vestri_ are simply not used as possessive or attributive qualifiers as if they were equivalent to the pronominal adjectives _meus_, _tuus_ &c. The examples he cites there, from Cic. _Att. _(_tui defensor_), Virg. _Aen._ (_amore tui_) Tac. _Ann. _(_tui memoria_ - a typically Tacitean extension of _memor tui_, and indeed of the use of the genitive with _meminisse_), Martial (_desiderio tui_), are all examples of the "objective" genitive as explained in A&G § 143.


there are also other example that aren't objective genitive.


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## radagasty

Pugnator said:


> there are also other example that aren't objective genitive.



To address the two remaining classical examples you gave that Scoliast hasn't mention:

Virg., _Aen._: *tui fidissima *This is an objective genitive, 'most faithful to you', referring to the queen's faith and not that of Turnus.

Tert., _Ad uxor._: *in conflictationem tui *Again an objective genitive, 'in your being conflicted', _i.e._, the wife is the object of the affliction, rather than its source.


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