# Chronology of placenames and personal names and national standardization



## Dymn

Hi,

The other day we talked about when national standards started to be spoken natively throughout a country, but another question linked with the same issue is how and when this affected toponyms and personal names (both given names and surnames). The focus is in Europe but contributions about similar situations elsewhere are welcome.

My questions are then whether (1) and if so: when (2) were toponyms and surnames adapted, and to what extent (3)? Were they only adapted to a standard spelling, and those who could be easily adapted translated, or was also the form (the phonotactics e.g.) of the local name altered?

For example, looking at a list of _comuni _in Lombardy, all of them look totally "Italian", and I'm not talking about spelling, or easily translatable toponyms with a transparent meaning, like "San Giovanni Milanese", but the forms themselves... for instance none of them ends in consonant? As far as I know Lombardian has dropped many final vowels, similar to Occitan and Catalan. Did standardization "artificially" add those vowels, and when did it so? What about Germany, especially in Low German-speaking regions? It strikes me, on the other hand, how the French mostly kept the spelling 'ny' in places in Northern Catalonia, instead of the 'gn' equivalent.

As for given names, the question is if both forms where used in parallel (one when speaking in the vernacular, the other for the standard and official documents), if so, when this started and when this ended (because parents started naming their children the form in the national language in all settings).

Thanks


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## ahvalj

Russia is of little interest in this context, since during the last millennium it has always had a standard language maintained by the state and the church, and place and personal names attested in official texts always tended to be adapted to the way they should have sounded. For example, a prince of the 10–11th centuries (Vladimir the Great - Wikipedia), who was most probably pronounced in Old East Slavic as _Volodiměrъ,_ wrote himself in an Old Church Slavonic manner _Vladimirъ_ on his coins (https://kulturologia.ru/files/u8921/moneta.jpg).

An interesting case is modern-day Belarus, where the vast majority of people speak Russian, and as a consequence most local place and personal names are transformed in a Russian manner: this transformation involves both phonetic adaptation and (sometimes) translation. Since official signs are normally in Belarusian (and sometimes additionally in English — http://www.belta.by/images/storage/news/000023_359402_big.jpg), it creates a kafkaesque situation when what you see written and what people hear and say reflect two different languages. For example, the name of this metro station in Minsk http://naviny.by/media/2011.04_w3/download/Oktaybrskaya/03-oktyabrskaya-rabota.jpg sounds completely different in Belarusian and in Russian.

Another interesting thing: some plain Russian village names on this map of 1817 are, for the reasons I don't understand, written phonetically and not using the standard orthography: Старые карты городов России - от древних времен до наших дней — _Сабакина_ (on the left: _Sabakina_ instead of _Sobakina_) and _Аврагъ_ (on the right _Avrag_ instead of _Ovrag_).


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## apmoy70

In Greece the independence in 1830's, affected much more toponyms, than the standardization of language in 1976.

Thus, toponyms that had (A) their name corrupted during Byzantine/Ottoman rule, (B) been named by the ruling foreign elite with Ottoman Turkish or Frankish names, or (C) changed their name by the raiding Slavic tribes (mostly by those Slavs who eventually settled-in, and assimilated), were renamed for nationalist (mostly), and literary reasons.
A few examples:

-The modern city of *«Λαμία»* [laˈmi.a] (fem.) in Central Greece, was until the mid-19th c. called *«Ζητούνι»* [ziˈtuni] (neut.), from the Frankish _Girton_ as it was known during the years of Frankocracy/Latinocracy after the 4th Crusade. The modern name is its ancient one, *«Λαμίᾱ» Lămíā*.

-Τhe present-day Athenian suburb of *«Μεταμόρφωσις/Μεταμόρφωση»* [metaˈmorfosis] (fem; formal, Katharevousian name), [metaˈmorfosi] (fem; vernacular), is named after the eponymous big Orthodox Church of the Transfiguration of Christ (Gr: Μεταμόρφωσις) that towered over the town. Until the early 20th c. it was called *«Κουκουβάουνες»* [kukuˈva.unes] (fem. nom. pl.) probably an onomatopoeia (owl's call: *«κου-κου-βάου»* [kukuˈva.u]) from the great number of owls that lived there (interestingly, the ancient Athenian name of the Deme there, was *«Γλαύκειᾱ» Glaú̯kei̯ā* (fem.), from the Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«γλαῦξ» glaû̯k͡s* (nom. sing.), *«γλαυκός» glau̯kós* (gen. sing.) --> _owl_ (with obscure etymology)).

-The present-day Athenian suburb of *«Αχαρναί/Αχαρνές»* [axarˈne] (fem. nom. pl; formal name), [axarˈnes] (fem. nom. pl; vernacular) was until the early 20th c. known as *«Μενίδι»* [meˈniði] (neut.) from the Byzantine landowner with the surname *«Μενίδης» Menídēs* who lived there and owned large chunks of land. The modern name is its ancient name, the Athenian Deme of *«Ἀχαρναί» Ăkʰarnaí̯*.

-Τhe modern town of *«Αράχωβα»* [aˈɾaxova] (fem.) in Central Greece (a famous skiing resort during winter), has a name of Slavic origin < Orěchovo, _place of walnut-trees_. There was an attempt to rename it to its "original" Greek name in early 20th c. *«Ἀνθέμεια» Ăntʰémei̯ā* (fem.) or *«Ἀνθεμοῦσα» Ăntʰĕmoûsā* (fem), _place of flowers_, but it never caught on. The locals didn't care.

As far as surnames is concerned, there was never an attempt by the State to officially "Hellenize" Greek surnames, our surnames are Byzantine in origin, often have dialectal phonetic traits, sometimes are Turkish in origin (don't forget we had up to 1.5 mil. Anatolian Christians who were exchanged in 1923 per the Lausanne Treaty, with half a million Greek Muslims, and those Anatolian Christians although the majority of them spoke Greek as their primary language (bar the Karamanli Christians) had also Turkish surnames), sometimes Romance (Greek areas were under Venetian or Genoese rule for 200-300 years). No-one cares really.


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## Määränpää

Finland: (pdf file)





> The spelling of Finnish place names has been standardized throughout the country to conform to the same general linguistic rules. Although standardized names do not usually contain any special phonological features of the dialects, some may reflect regional dialects and have preserved local colour in the form of dialect words and morphological features.


I'd say the same is true for surnames. The language of official documents used to be Swedish, so I don't know if the names used in old documents were more influenced by the local Finnish dialects or by Swedish.


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## Dymn

Thanks Ahvalj, Apmoy and Määränpää 

I'm still curious. Many territories switched hands in both World Wars, what happened for example with placenames in Eastern Poland or Königsberg/Kaliningrad enclave?

In Catalonia 1714 (Crown of Aragon abolished, Castilian imposed as official throughout Spain) marked the beginning of Castilianization of Catalan toponyms, prior to that only Gerona, Lérida and Urgel were traditionally used. Adaptation of placenames though wasn't as pervasive as in other areas, it was mostly kept to the translation of "saint" toponyms (e.g. Sant Boi > San Baudilio) and spelling (and Catalan spelling customs were very Castilianized back then so many aren't "adaptations" in the proper sense of the term). On the other hand, adaptation to Castilian phonotactics was non-existent and literal translations rather scarse.

These adaptations were official from 1842 (at least, it's the first census) to 1970 and so. Now only Catalan forms are official. Maybe during the 2nd Republic Catalan forms were official as well.

Source [in Spanish]


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## ahvalj

Dymn said:


> I'm still curious. Many territories switched hands in both World Wars, what happened for example with placenames in Eastern Poland or Königsberg/Kaliningrad enclave?


It depended on the fate of the original population. The German population was partly evacuated in early 1945 (Evacuation of East Prussia - Wikipedia), the rest of survivors were expelled after the war, so virtually all place names were changed as a result. In the Russian part of East Prussia these were mostly invented at random, in the Polish, as far as I understand, many counterparts existed prior to the annexation.

An interesting story is former south-eastern Finland. It had been in either Russian or Swedish hands since long ago, and was formally acquired by Russia in 1721 (Great Northern War - Wikipedia): originally as an ordinary territory but with the conquest of the rest of Finland in 1809 (Treaty of Fredrikshamn - Wikipedia) it was transferred to the newly formed Grand Duchy of Finland (Grand Duchy of Finland - Wikipedia). With the bolshevik recognition of Finland's independence in 1918 (Finnish Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia) these lands went away again to be reacquired in 1940 after the Winter War (Winter War - Wikipedia), lost again in the Continuation War of 1941–1944 (Continuation War - Wikipedia), and recaptured in 1944. Despite all these perturbations, no significant changes in the ethnic composition or toponymy occurred there until 1940 when Finland evacuated _all_ its population. Finns came back in 1941 to retreat again in 1944. Thus, like East Prussia, this territory became empty as a result of the Second World War. Administratively it was then divided between two subjects: the Leningrad oblast (a part of Russia) and the Karelian-Finnish republic, then a separate 16th republic of the USSR (Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic - Wikipedia), and since 1956 an autonomous Karelian republic within Russia (Karelian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic - Wikipedia). The Finnish names in what became part of the Leningrad oblast were mostly changed to Russian ones (again, most often invented randomly; some river and lake names were retained though), whereas in the Karelian republic most of them persisted in their Finnish form so that now the toponymy changes abruptly at the Leningrad/Karelian boundary (e. g. — Google Maps), though there is the same Russian population at both sides.


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## Dymn

Thanks Ahvalj!

Anyway, I meant Western Poland, not *Eastern. I often confuse them.


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## Dymn

It also seems to depend on the region. 

In Italy, during Fascism, toponyms in Aosta Valley and South Tyrol (those marked as Bolzano province) were italianized, but whereas after the war italianizations were undone in Aosta Valley, in South Tyrol they didn't. I think nowadays both forms are official, or at least that's what I've found in official lists of _comuni_. Slovenian names in parts of the Friuli are also apparently co-official along with Italian forms. And while in most of Italy names of _comuni _look totally Italian, I think Sardinian placenames kind of retain the local flavour (lots of names ending in _u_ or _s_).

In France, Corsican and Alsatian placenames look totally Italian and German, respectively... whereas names in South Flanders seem kind of mixed and all Breton placenames seem to be adapted to French spelling. Anyway, adapting all names phonologically, orthographically or literally doesn't erase all regional indicators, there's still an _ac/y _divide that closely follows the Òc/Oïl divide.

In Spain it also depends on the region. Castilianized toponyms exist for the whole peninsula (with a more or less extensive adaptation), but they may not be official (in Catalonia and Galicia) or be up to each municipality in other regions.


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## merquiades

You might find this interesting concerning Alsace.  All the names appear touched up just a bit, some translated, others not.


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## Sardokan1.0

Dymn said:


> And while in most of Italy names of _comuni _look totally Italian, I think Sardinian placenames kind of retain the local flavour (lots of names ending in _u_ or _s_).



Most of Sardinian toponyms were Italianized during the XIXth century, during the Piedmontese epoch, and after the Italian unity to make them sound Italian; often an I was added at the end to make them sound like Italian, or sometimes the name was totally changed. Practically every place in Sardinia has two names, one in Italian and one in Sardinian. Beginning from the name of the island, in Italian "Sardegna", while we in our language always called it Sardigna or Sardinnia.

Some example of Sardinian toponyms :



Spoiler



*Italian - Sardinian*

Sassari - Tàthari
Porto Torres - Portu Turre
Olbia - Terranoa (until the Fascist epoch the name was Terranova Pausania, then it was renamed "Olbia", after the ancient Roman city)
Nùoro - Nùgoro, Nùcoro (metathesis of "Nùroc, Nùrog" -> Nùcor, Nùgor; a pre-Roman root (Nur, Nurac, Norac, Nuraghe) common in the name of many Sardinian villages)
Oristano - Aristànis (from Latin "Auri Stannis"; ponds, lagoons of gold; because of the coastal lagoons that surround the city, they assume a golden color at sunset)
Cagliari - Casteddu (medieval Latin "Castrum Caralis" or "Castellum Caralis")
Santa Teresa - Lungoni
Golfo Aranci - Fìgari (from "figu" = fig tree)
Alghero - L'Alguer (in Catalan) S'Alighera (in Sardinian; the name means "the place of algae", in Sardinian named "àligas")
Macomér - Macumére (Latin "Maco Emerita")
Lòculi - Lùcula (plural diminutive of Latin "Lucus" = sacred wood)
Lula - Lùvula
Bitti - Bitzi, Vitzi
Villagrande - Bidda Manna (Latin "Villa Magna")
Villacidro - Bidda 'e Cidrus (southern Sardinian for "village of the lemons")
Villasor - Bidda 'e Sorris (southern Sardinian for "village of the sisters / nuns")
Elmas - Su Masu (the farm, the mansion; the name Elmas dates back to the Spanish epoch)
Ozieri - Othieri
Orani - Orane
Òsilo - Òsile
Cossoìne - Cosseìne
Monti - Monte
Fonni - Fonne, Honne
Suni - Sune
Neonéli - Neunéle, Naunéle
Dorgali - Durgale
Bortigali - Bortigale
Bolòtana - Golothéne
Siniscola - Thiniscóle
San Teodoro - Santu Thiadóru
Sant'Antioco - Santu Antiógu
Sant'Antonio - Sant'Antóni
Santu Lussurgiu - Santu Lussurzu
San Leonardo - Santu Nenardu
Pozzomaggiore - Puttu Majore (major / biggest well)
Putifìgari - Puttu Figariu (well of the fig tree)
Lanusei - Lanusé
Orosei - Orosé
Oliena - Uliena
Urzulei - Orthulé
Àrzana - Àrthana



Often the Piedmontese / Italian cartographers in XIXth century invented out of nothing place names, mostly because they didn't understand a word of Sardinian, this is the example of a little island along the central-western coast; named in Italian "isola di mal di ventre" (island of the bellyache), a totally meaningless name; while the Sardinian name is "isula de malu 'entu" (island of the bad wind), a perfectly fit name, since the western coast is often flagellated by the Mistral wind.


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## Dymn

merquiades said:


> You might find this interesting concerning Alsace. All the names appear touched up just a bit, some translated, others not.


I see. What I don't understand is calling them "exonyms". The local language is a German dialect. If anything, it was an adaptation from Alsatian German to Standard German.

@Sardokan1.0 Thanks 
Yes, they did Italianize most toponyms if not all, but not completely, or at least, as I say, they have a different feel from the names in the continent. Some adaptations are weird, for example _Porto Torres _or _Sarroch_, I guess Catalan influence? And obvious Spanish influence on _Iglesias_.



Sardokan1.0 said:


> Often the Piedmontese / Italian cartographers in XIXth century invented out of nothing place names, mostly because they didn't understand a word of Sardinian, this is the example of a little island along the central-western coast; named in Italian "isola di mal di ventre" (island of the bellyache), a totally meaningless name; while the Sardinian name is "isula de malu 'entu" (island of the bad wind), a perfectly fit name, since the western coast is often flagellated by the Mistral wind.


Yes, sometimes adaptations are a bit shabby...



Sardokan1.0 said:


> (until the Fascist epoch the name was Terranova Pausania, then it was renamed "Olbia", after the ancient Roman city)


I guess the name in itself is not bad but hasn't there been any move to get rid of names chosen in Fascist times? In 1982 Ferrol in Galicia decided to ditch the "del Caudillo" from its name. I think there is a town in Spain that voted not to remove "Franco" from the name


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## Sardokan1.0

Dymn said:


> Thanks
> Yes, they did Italianize most toponyms if not all, but not completely, or at least, as I say, they have a different feel from the names in the continent. Some adaptations are weird, for example _Porto Torres _or _Sarroch_, I guess Catalan influence? And obvious Spanish influence on _Iglesias_.



Yes, they have surely a different feeling, since many Sardinian toponyms are in actual Romance-Sardinian language and not in Italian, while many other toponyms are in Paleo-Sardinian language, which was a pre-IE language that according to linguists it could be related to pre-IE languages spoken throughout western Europe during the prehistoric age, languages of which the only survivor is Basque. Linguists noticed that about 30-40% of toponyms in central-northern Sardinia are inexplicable with Latin or actual Romance-Sardinian, but they make sense if translated from Basque or proto-Basque.

Driven by curiosity sometimes ago I started to read (as amateur) some Basque etymological dictionary, to see if I could find something comparable to Sardinian vocabulary or toponyms, with my great surprise I've found some coincidences, sometimes synonymouses, sometimes words identical in meaning and pronunciation.
I've started to compile a little list sometimes ago.



Spoiler



*
*

*Basque - Sardinian*

Agian, Ahian = maybe

Igiantu = unless

Ahardi, Aardi, Ardi = sow
‘Erda, Gherda, Berda = little cubes of pork lard

Aiho = desire
Aju (pronounce “ÀYU”) = desire, will

Aitz, Haitz = crag, stone
Aizkor = axe
Aitza, Aicia, Alcia, Aiscia, Ascia, Aiscra, Ascra = splinter, sliver

Antza = appearance, attitude
Atza = attitude, courage

Antzu, Antxu = literally “empty”, said of non-pregnant females
Anzare = to give birth; said of female animals

Ardi-kari = sheeps’ guardian, sheperd
Àrrica! Àrriga! = call for the sheperd dog

Aritz, Haritz = oak
Arìtzo = Sardinian village on the mountains, surrounded by oak woods

Arratz = bush
Arrasone = tangle of bushes
Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Arratz / Arras + Latin augmentative suffix One.
Arras+One = big bush

Aztigar, Axtigar, Gaztigar = maple tree
Astìghe, Ostìghe, Costìghe = maple tree

Bor, Bar = Basque prefix meaning “deep, down, below”
Bor, Bar = prefix present in the names of many Sardinian villages situated into deep valleys or lowlands.
Example :
Borutta : it’s a village situated in a deep valley overlooked by a deep rocky cliff (in Sardinian : cliff, fall = rutta). 

Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Bor + Romance-Sardinian voice “Rutta”, feminine past participle of the Latin/Sardinian verb “Rùere” = to fall.
Bor+Rutta = deep fall.

Burrumba = uproar, hubbub
Burrumballa = uproar, hubbub (used in central-southern Sardinia)

Dirdira = tremor
Tiri-tiri = onomatopoeic voice said to describe a person trembling and soaked to the bone because of rain

Ganga = mouth’s palate
Ganga = under the jaw

Golko = gulf
Golgo = name of a deep pit-grotto with wide rounded edges (like a gulf), situated in central-eastern Sardinia

Gor = Basque prefix meaning “to swallow”
Gorropu = name of a deep and narrow gorge situated in central Sardinia
Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice “GOR” + Latin voice “RUPE” (cliff)
Possible evolution : GOR-RUPE->GOR-ROPE->GOR-ROPU = swallowing cliff / gorge

Gora = high, elevated
Cora, Gora = deep gorge or channel made by water
Compare it also with the Slavic “Gora” = mountain

Ihes/Iges = refuge
Tigesi = medieval name of the village of Thiesi; which was founded on an high plateau by the refugees of other villages abandoned because of famine and plagues.

Iturri, Üthür-i = source
Ìttiri = village of north-western Sardinia
Ittireddu = another village of north-western Sardinia
The name ITTIREDDU seems to be composed by the Paleo-Sardinian voice ÌTTIRI + the Romance-Sardinian diminutive suffix EDDU; so if ÌTTIRI = source, then ITTIREDDU = little source
Ettori = name of a creek near my village

Keremul = a variety of apple
Cherémule = a village of north-western Sardinia
During the Byzantine age the village was named KELEMALUM or KEREMALUM.
Pre-IE voice KELE (caldera) + Latin voice MALUM (apple tree); it makes sense since the village is situated on the side of an ancient extinct volcano.
So KELE+MALUM = caldera’s apple tree

Kukurru, Kukur = summit, upper part, top of the mountain
Cùccuru = summit, upper part, top of the mountain, top of the head

Kukurusta = rooster’s comb / crest
Cogorosta = rooster’s comb / crest
Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice “KUKUR / KOKOR” + Latin voice “CRESTA” (crest)
Possible evolution :
KUKUR-CRESTA->KUKUR-CRISTA->KUKUR-CRUSTA->KUKUR-RUSTA->KOKOR-ROSTA->COGOR-ROSTA->COGO-ROSTA.
During the evolution of Sardinian there are many examples of switch from E to I, from U to I, from U to O and viceversa, and also examples of disappearance of the initial C.
KUKURUSTA / COGOROSTA = literally “summit’s crest, top of the head’s crest”
All these Kukur, Kokor + Cresta, made me think to the English names of the chicken : 1) Cock (pre-IE root? Kokor?) 2) Rooster (Rusta->Roosta + ER = Crest bearer?)

Coccorrótzi, Coccorrócci, Coccorrói = bump
Word apparently composed by Basque / Paleo-Sardinian “KUKUR/KOKOR” (summit, top of the head) + Basque “OZI” (sprout, growth, excrescence).
KOKOR+OZI = top of the head's excrescence = bump

Cugumía = toponym of a place in the countryside of this area, it’s a passage between two hills, a narrow passage that gives access to the plateau above these hills.
Word apparently composed by Basque / Paleo-Sardinian “KUKUR” (summit) + Basque “MEHAR” (narrow)
KUKUR-MEHAR->KUKU-MEHA->KUGU-MEHA->CUGU-MÍA = narrow summit

Lantar = hoarfrost, dew
Lentore = hoarfrost, dew

Mokor = pile, stack, little hill
Mògoro = village in central Sardinia situated on a little hill

Mustupil = muzzle, snout
Mutzighile = muzzle, snout
Muccighile (Corsican) = muzzle, snout
Possible evolution :
MUSTUPIL->MUZTUPIL->MUZTIPIL->MUZTIBIL->MUZTIGIL->MUTZIGIL->MUTZIGHILE
Changes from U to I, or P to B to G, TZ to C or viceversa, plus metathesis phenomenon are documented in Sardinian.

Orro = shout, bellow, moo
Òrriu = donkey’s bray

Pinpirin-a = embryon of fruit
Pimpirina (south Sardinia) = a morsel of something

Pitxi-ka / Pitzi-ka = a little quantity
Piticca (south Sardinia) = feminine of “PITICCU” (little)

Tuturru = summit, upper part
Istuturrada = slap given to the back top of the head

Txintxirri = onomatopoeic voice meaning "Rattle, rattling sound"
Cincirriólu, Thinthirriólu, Tzintzirriólu = bat
The pronunciation of Basque *Txintxirri *is identical to that of Sardinian *CINCIRRI*ÓLU. 

Which seems to be formed by the Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Txintxirri / Cincirri + the Latin diminutive suffix “OLU”.
Txintxirri / Cincirri + OLU = little rattling thing (because of the bat’s call, similar to the sound of a rattle)

Zakhur, Zakur, Xakur = dog
Jàgaru = hunting dog
Ghjàcaru (southern Corsican) = dog
Compare it also with the Albanian “Zagar” (hunting dog); and also with German “Jäger” (hunter)

Zurrumba = suppuration, bloating
Zurúmba = hump, hunchback
Zurumbone = bump (Zurumba + augmentative suffix ONE = big bump)


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## merquiades

Dymn said:


> I see. What I don't understand is calling them "exonyms". The local language is a German dialect. If anything, it was an adaptation from Alsatian German to Standard German.


It is a bit complicated.  _Alsatian_ like _Lëtzebuergesch_ are now considered full-fledged languages in their own right and have their standards.  Should this be the case?  Maybe... depends on the viewpoint.  Looking at Alsatian it looks different enough to not be understandable for German speakers, but at the same time clearly related, when you take out the thousands of French words that have been introduced.
Historical, in pre-French times, high German was used as the official literary language in Alsace, and Alsatian was just seen as some kind of patois to speak around home. No one was too bothered. The French encouraged both French and Alsatian at the expense of German.  If you look at the Toponym _Mulhouse_ (French official), with Alsatian _Milhusa_, and German _Mülhausen, _it seems that the French took the Alsatian toponym and Frenchified it somehow, rather than translate it.  Translated it'd have been _Millemaison_.  Other times it's not clear... for example, how _Ribeauvillé_ (Ri-bo-vi-yé) came from _Rappswihr_ (Alsatian), with the German _Rappoltsweiller_.  It seems like when it was obvious what the town meant, when it had a meaning, rather than just phonetics based, it was translated in that case:  _Faulquemont_ (French - mount of falcons), _Folkaburch_, _Falkenburg_ (German).  Sometimes it was partly translated when the meaning of part of the toponym was apparent:   _Petit-Wiches_ compared to _Klein Wisch_.
In the twentieth century, there was a period of time when Alsatian was suppressed by both the Germans and by the French to prove allegiance.  For the French acquainting Alsatian to German was used as an excuse to create shame and to stamp out the language until recent times.  It was effective. Nowadays you see the French signs and sometimes the Alsatian underneath and smaller.  Alsatian is promoted again in a new sense of regional pride, but not to replace French.  But you don't see the German toponyms.  To my mind this is main reason why German toponyms are considered exonyms, but also a bit because of the differences between Alsatian and German whenever relavant.


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## Sardokan1.0

Dymn said:


> Yes, they did Italianize most toponyms if not all, but not completely, or at least, as I say, they have a different feel from the names in the continent. Some adaptations are weird, for example _Porto Torres _or _Sarroch_, I guess Catalan influence? And obvious Spanish influence on _Iglesias_.



In the cases above :

*Porto Torres :*  Dates back probably to the Spanish epoch, the name however derives from the ancient Roman city "Turris Libyssonis"; around 1000 A.D. the city was abandoned except the port, which was labeled "Portus Turris", and then in Sardinian language Portu de Turres/Torres -> Portu 'e Turre -> Portu Turre. The Italian administration simply translated the name to Porto Torres.

*Iglesias :* same thing, in origin the name was Latin "Villa Ecclesiae" -> Sardinian "Bidda 'e Cresia" (village of the church) -> Spanish "Iglesias" -> Sardinian "Igresias"

*Sarroch :* apparently derives from Latin "Sanctus Rochus" -> Santu Roccu -> San Roccu -> Sarroccu (actual Sardinian name) -> Sarroch (Italian name)

*Monserrato :* The name dates back to the Aragonese/Spanish epoch, from Catalan Montserrat. While the Sardinian name of the village is "Paùli" or "Paùle" (swamp); late Latin "padus - padulis" (swamp)

*Goceano :* name of a Sardinian sub-region, from Spanish "Gociano",  derived from medieval Sardinian "Gothianu", derived from the late Latin "Gothianus"; since in Vth century during the late Roman age in that area it was stationed a unit of Gothic auxilia.

*Elmas :* village of south Sardinia, the actual name in Catalan (El Mas = the farmhouse) dates back to the Spanish epoch; while the Sardinian name is "Su Masu" = the farmhouse, same as Catalan; from Latin "Mansio - Mansionis" = farmhouse


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## fdb

merquiades said:


> You might find this interesting concerning Alsace.  All the names appear touched up just a bit, some translated, others not.



In Straßburg, alias Strasbourg, there was a street called Knobloch-Gasse, named after a local patrician family called Knobloch. After the first world war it was rebaptised rue de l’Ail, and retains this name till the present.


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## killerbee256

Sardokan1.0 said:


> Yes, they have surely a different feeling, since many Sardinian toponyms are in actual Romance-Sardinian language and not in Italian, while many other toponyms are in Paleo-Sardinian language, which was a pre-IE language that according to linguists it could be related to pre-IE languages spoken throughout western Europe during the prehistoric age, languages of which the only survivor is Basque. Linguists noticed that about 30-40% of toponyms in central-northern Sardinia are inexplicable with Latin or actual Romance-Sardinian, but they make sense if translated from Basque or proto-Basque.
> 
> Driven by curiosity sometimes ago I started to read (as amateur) some Basque etymological dictionary, to see if I could find something comparable to Sardinian vocabulary or toponyms, with my great surprise I've found some coincidences, sometimes synonymouses, sometimes words identical in meaning and pronunciation.
> I've started to compile a little list sometimes ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Basque - Sardinian*
> 
> Agian, Ahian = maybe
> 
> Igiantu = unless
> 
> Ahardi, Aardi, Ardi = sow
> ‘Erda, Gherda, Berda = little cubes of pork lard
> 
> Aiho = desire
> Aju (pronounce “ÀYU”) = desire, will
> 
> Aitz, Haitz = crag, stone
> Aizkor = axe
> Aitza, Aicia, Alcia, Aiscia, Ascia, Aiscra, Ascra = splinter, sliver
> 
> Antza = appearance, attitude
> Atza = attitude, courage
> 
> Antzu, Antxu = literally “empty”, said of non-pregnant females
> Anzare = to give birth; said of female animals
> 
> Ardi-kari = sheeps’ guardian, sheperd
> Àrrica! Àrriga! = call for the sheperd dog
> 
> Aritz, Haritz = oak
> Arìtzo = Sardinian village on the mountains, surrounded by oak woods
> 
> Arratz = bush
> Arrasone = tangle of bushes
> Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Arratz / Arras + Latin augmentative suffix One.
> Arras+One = big bush
> 
> Aztigar, Axtigar, Gaztigar = maple tree
> Astìghe, Ostìghe, Costìghe = maple tree
> 
> Bor, Bar = Basque prefix meaning “deep, down, below”
> Bor, Bar = prefix present in the names of many Sardinian villages situated into deep valleys or lowlands.
> Example :
> Borutta : it’s a village situated in a deep valley overlooked by a deep rocky cliff (in Sardinian : cliff, fall = rutta).
> 
> Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Bor + Romance-Sardinian voice “Rutta”, feminine past participle of the Latin/Sardinian verb “Rùere” = to fall.
> Bor+Rutta = deep fall.
> 
> Burrumba = uproar, hubbub
> Burrumballa = uproar, hubbub (used in central-southern Sardinia)
> 
> Dirdira = tremor
> Tiri-tiri = onomatopoeic voice said to describe a person trembling and soaked to the bone because of rain
> 
> Ganga = mouth’s palate
> Ganga = under the jaw
> 
> Golko = gulf
> Golgo = name of a deep pit-grotto with wide rounded edges (like a gulf), situated in central-eastern Sardinia
> 
> Gor = Basque prefix meaning “to swallow”
> Gorropu = name of a deep and narrow gorge situated in central Sardinia
> Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice “GOR” + Latin voice “RUPE” (cliff)
> Possible evolution : GOR-RUPE->GOR-ROPE->GOR-ROPU = swallowing cliff / gorge
> 
> Gora = high, elevated
> Cora, Gora = deep gorge or channel made by water
> Compare it also with the Slavic “Gora” = mountain
> 
> Ihes/Iges = refuge
> Tigesi = medieval name of the village of Thiesi; which was founded on an high plateau by the refugees of other villages abandoned because of famine and plagues.
> 
> Iturri, Üthür-i = source
> Ìttiri = village of north-western Sardinia
> Ittireddu = another village of north-western Sardinia
> The name ITTIREDDU seems to be composed by the Paleo-Sardinian voice ÌTTIRI + the Romance-Sardinian diminutive suffix EDDU; so if ÌTTIRI = source, then ITTIREDDU = little source
> Ettori = name of a creek near my village
> 
> Keremul = a variety of apple
> Cherémule = a village of north-western Sardinia
> During the Byzantine age the village was named KELEMALUM or KEREMALUM.
> Pre-IE voice KELE (caldera) + Latin voice MALUM (apple tree); it makes sense since the village is situated on the side of an ancient extinct volcano.
> So KELE+MALUM = caldera’s apple tree
> 
> Kukurru, Kukur = summit, upper part, top of the mountain
> Cùccuru = summit, upper part, top of the mountain, top of the head
> 
> Kukurusta = rooster’s comb / crest
> Cogorosta = rooster’s comb / crest
> Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice “KUKUR / KOKOR” + Latin voice “CRESTA” (crest)
> Possible evolution :
> KUKUR-CRESTA->KUKUR-CRISTA->KUKUR-CRUSTA->KUKUR-RUSTA->KOKOR-ROSTA->COGOR-ROSTA->COGO-ROSTA.
> During the evolution of Sardinian there are many examples of switch from E to I, from U to I, from U to O and viceversa, and also examples of disappearance of the initial C.
> KUKURUSTA / COGOROSTA = literally “summit’s crest, top of the head’s crest”
> All these Kukur, Kokor + Cresta, made me think to the English names of the chicken : 1) Cock (pre-IE root? Kokor?) 2) Rooster (Rusta->Roosta + ER = Crest bearer?)
> 
> Coccorrótzi, Coccorrócci, Coccorrói = bump
> Word apparently composed by Basque / Paleo-Sardinian “KUKUR/KOKOR” (summit, top of the head) + Basque “OZI” (sprout, growth, excrescence).
> KOKOR+OZI = top of the head's excrescence = bump
> 
> Cugumía = toponym of a place in the countryside of this area, it’s a passage between two hills, a narrow passage that gives access to the plateau above these hills.
> Word apparently composed by Basque / Paleo-Sardinian “KUKUR” (summit) + Basque “MEHAR” (narrow)
> KUKUR-MEHAR->KUKU-MEHA->KUGU-MEHA->CUGU-MÍA = narrow summit
> 
> Lantar = hoarfrost, dew
> Lentore = hoarfrost, dew
> 
> Mokor = pile, stack, little hill
> Mògoro = village in central Sardinia situated on a little hill
> 
> Mustupil = muzzle, snout
> Mutzighile = muzzle, snout
> Muccighile (Corsican) = muzzle, snout
> Possible evolution :
> MUSTUPIL->MUZTUPIL->MUZTIPIL->MUZTIBIL->MUZTIGIL->MUTZIGIL->MUTZIGHILE
> Changes from U to I, or P to B to G, TZ to C or viceversa, plus metathesis phenomenon are documented in Sardinian.
> 
> Orro = shout, bellow, moo
> Òrriu = donkey’s bray
> 
> Pinpirin-a = embryon of fruit
> Pimpirina (south Sardinia) = a morsel of something
> 
> Pitxi-ka / Pitzi-ka = a little quantity
> Piticca (south Sardinia) = feminine of “PITICCU” (little)
> 
> Tuturru = summit, upper part
> Istuturrada = slap given to the back top of the head
> 
> Txintxirri = onomatopoeic voice meaning "Rattle, rattling sound"
> Cincirriólu, Thinthirriólu, Tzintzirriólu = bat
> The pronunciation of Basque *Txintxirri *is identical to that of Sardinian *CINCIRRI*ÓLU.
> 
> Which seems to be formed by the Basque / Paleo-Sardinian voice Txintxirri / Cincirri + the Latin diminutive suffix “OLU”.
> Txintxirri / Cincirri + OLU = little rattling thing (because of the bat’s call, similar to the sound of a rattle)
> 
> Zakhur, Zakur, Xakur = dog
> Jàgaru = hunting dog
> Ghjàcaru (southern Corsican) = dog
> Compare it also with the Albanian “Zagar” (hunting dog); and also with German “Jäger” (hunter)
> 
> Zurrumba = suppuration, bloating
> Zurúmba = hump, hunchback
> Zurumbone = bump (Zurumba + augmentative suffix ONE = big bump)


If you put some more work you might be able to have your work published. If I were you I would see if the Romans ever made a connection as they knew of spoken pre roman Sardinian languge and ancient Basque.


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## danielstan

I read the list of supposed Basque - Sardinian cognates and I see many words falling in 2 categories:
- related to mountains
- related to animals in close connection with humans (dogs and so)

What is interesting to me is that significant parts of the 160 - 200 supposed cognates existing in (modern) Romanian and (modern) Albanian fall also in categories related to nature (mountains and other landscapes), animals and sheperding (sheep breeding and sheep habitat).

List of Romanian words of possible Dacian origin - Wikipedia

Yes, the pattern that we observe is that the paleo-Sardinian substratum, respectively the Daco-Moesian substratum in Romanian, have been preserved in mountainous areas, by isolated populations which probably resisted longer (centuries) to the Romanization.


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## Sardokan1.0

danielstan said:


> I read the list of supposed Basque - Sardinian cognates and I see many words falling in 2 categories:
> - related to mountains
> - related to animals in close connection with humans (dogs and so)
> 
> What is interesting to me is that significant parts of the 160 - 200 supposed cognates existing in (modern) Romanian and (modern) Albanian fall also in categories related to nature (mountains and other landscapes), animals and sheperding (sheep breeding and sheep habitat).
> 
> List of Romanian words of possible Dacian origin - Wikipedia
> 
> Yes, the pattern that we observe is that the paleo-Sardinian substratum, respectively the Daco-Moesian substratum in Romanian, have been preserved in mountainous areas, by isolated populations which probably resisted longer (centuries) to the Romanization.



This makes sense, during the Roman age Sardinia was always an unruly province, Romans controlled just part of the island, while the mountainous areas at the centre of the island were virtually out of Roman control, they just built military outposts and fortifications to guard this area that they named Barbaria (actual Barbagia), while the Roman territory was named Romània, (see links below). We know from the ancient fonts that this region of Sardinia remained out of imperial control and still pagan even during the Byzantine age. There is a letter written by Pope Gregorius Magnus in VIth century to reprimand the Sardinian bishops because half of Sardinians were still pagans, he invited them to double their efforts to christianize the mountainous areas, and he also addressed to a man named Hospiton, Dux Barbaricinorum (chief of the Barbaricini), inviting him to convert his people, since he was already christian.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...egna_Barbaria.png/800px-Sardegna_Barbaria.png
http://www.asciatopo.altervista.org/Sardinia.jpg

P.S.
Very interesting the List you posted. I've found few words that have a parallel in Sardinian, Italian, or Spanish


*acăța, *_*agăța* (to hang up, hook up) -> aggantzare (from Sardinian "gantzu" = hook) - same of Italian "agganciare" (gancio = hook) - same of Spanish "enganchar" (gancho = hook)_
_*baltă *(pool, puddle) -> baltza (tub, tank, basin, swimming pool)_
_*brânză *(cheese) -> brotzu (ricotta)- same of Corsican "brocciu" (ricotta)_
_*doină *(lamenting folksong) -> duèna (ghost) - same of Spanish "duende" (ghost)_
_*groapă *(hole, pit) -> gorropu (ravine, gully, gorge) cora, gora (channel or gorge made by water)_


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## Cossue

In Galicia, the Galician patronymical surnames that were recognized as such by the officials were usually adapted to the standard Spanish forms mostly during the 19th and 20th centuries. So, instead of the medieval Galician forms such as:

[Galician surnames: - Cartografía dos apelidos de Galicia ]
[Gallecia Monumenta Historica, for medieval documentation: GMH: GMH ]

*Vermues* (from _Veremudiz_ ← Weremudo), we now have *Bermúdez*, which is its Spanish equivalent;

*Gonçalves* (from _Gundisalviz_ ← Gundisalvo), we now have *Gonzalez*, which is its Spanish equivalent, and just a few *Gonzalvez* and *Gonzalves*, which are the Modernd Galician equivalents;

*Mart*ĩĩ*s* (from _Martiniz_ ← Martino), we now have *Martínez*, the Spanish form, and a few Galician *Martís.*

*Eanes* (from Iohanniz ← Iohannes), transformed into *Yáñez*, the Spanish form, and some Galician *Yanes, Anes* and *Oanes*

Also, Galician forms that were largely equal to the Spanish forms were also standardized: *Rodríguez*, *Diéguez*, *Sánchez*, *López*, *Fernández*, etc



But Galician patronymical surnames that were not recognized as such by the officials, or which were nonexistent in Castilian Spanish, were not standardized and are usually preserved with a diverse number of forms:

From Bieito < Benedicto: *Vieites*, *Viéitez *(vs. Spanish _Benitez_) < Bieitez

From Miguel: *Miguéns, Migueiz, Miguez* < Miguees < Migueles; and *Migueles*, *Miguélez* < Miguelles (Spanish _Miguélez_)

From Raymondo: *Raimúndez*, *Raimóndez*, *Reimóndez*, *Reimúndez*, *Reymóndez*, *Reymúndez*

From Paio < Pelagio: *Pais*, *Paes*, *Paes*, *Paz*, *Baz…* all from medieval Pelaiz


Etcetera. Distance, and/or absence of a standard, prevented standardization.

As for the treatment of toponyms and other surnames, it's a mixed bag, but many were adapted in spelling (with phonetic consecuences: *Teixeira* /tejˈʃejɾa̝/ < Taxaria → *Teijeira* /tejˈxejɾa̝/) or phonetically (Reguengo /reˈɣɛŋɡo̝/ or /reˈhɛŋho̝/ or /reˈhɛŋko̝/ < Regalingo 'royal' → Regenjo /reˈxenxo̝/) to the uses of Castilian Spanish.

That being said, today the only official place names in Galicia are the Galician forms, which have been standardized in spelling but maintain its dialectal diversity (so we have Feais/Feás/Feáns < Fenales 'hay place'; Froxás, Freás, Frollais < Froilanis 'place of Froila', etc...) Surnames, on the other hand, are currently considered too personal, so it's up to each individual to opt in for the standardization or restitution of it.


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## Dymn

*Catalan* surnames have many non-standard spelllings, arising from:

Traditional conventions before the 1913 standard, like final _-ch _instead of _-c _for /k/.
Spanish influence, like _ñ _instead of _ny _for /ɲ/.
Dialectal pronunciation, like _-é _instead of _-er_ and _-as _instead of _-es_, etc.
I think most people have never adapted their surnames to the standard or plan to do so.

One day that I was bored I took the data from the most frequent surnames and names in each Spanish province and I grouped provinces according to a cluster algorithm so that the names or surnames were as homogeneous as possible in each region.

Here are the results:



Spoiler: Names














Spoiler: Surnames


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## merquiades

@Dymn  Nice maps, but what do the colors mean?  That the people living in these areas have similar names and last names?


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## Dymn

Yes, that's the idea. The most frequent names and surnames in each province have more coincidences within each area than with other areas. I honestly don't fully understand how it works but that's the idea.


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## merquiades

Dymn said:


> Yes, that's the idea. The most frequent names and surnames in each province have more coincidences within each area than with other areas. I honestly don't fully understand how it works but that's the idea.


It's amazing to think that people in Navarre, Gerona and Albacete would have the same last names (dark blue areas).


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## jmx

I like those maps. Far less interesting things have been published in academic papers. However, I suppose the results are affected by some kind of parameter, and I guess that different parameters would give different results, wouldn't they?


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## Stoggler

Every map needs a key: without knowing what the colours actually represent, I don’t know what I’m looking at other than some vague notion that names are clustered somehow by a “cluster algorithm”.


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## Dymn

They represent provinces that have more names and surnames in common. For example, Cantabria, orange in the surname map, doesn't have many surnames in common with the rest of Spain and so is granted their own group. The four Galician provinces, same thing, they have many surnames in common between themselves but not with others. That's the logic behind the map.



jmx said:


> However, I suppose the results are affected by some kind of parameter, and I guess that different parameters would give different results, wouldn't they?


There are various methods and they may slightly affect the results. Plus choosing 8 as the number of areas instead of any other number is arbitrary.



merquiades said:


> It's amazing to think that people in Navarre, Gerona and Albacete would have the same last names (dark blue areas).


Yes. The downside of this map is that it only considers the 50 most common surnames, and due to Castilian surnames being much more repetitive, they top the lists of most frequent surnames in Catalonia, making groupings with Castilian-speaking provinces feasible.

Catalonia received quite a bit of immigration from Murcia and Aragon during the beginnings of the 20th century, so that probably helps create this curious Eastern group (which is the most heterogeneous anyway).

Another curious fact is that Madrid (with 44) and Barcelona (with 41) are the provinces with the most surnames in common with the 50 most frequent in the Spain total.


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## Parmenid

Maybe this could be helpful.
Minoranze linguistiche d'Italia - Wikipedia


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