# Qualité et défaut



## ijustloveenglish

Salut à tous, 
Voila j'ai beau cherché dans le dico mais comment traduiriez vous les mots: "qualité et défaut" d'une personne.
e.g.: 
Employeur: Citez moi trois de vos qualité et 3 de vos defauts?
Employer: Mes qualités sont Volontaire, appliqué et sociable, Mes defaut par contre sont la rancune, l'impatience et la gourmendise

Si ce n'est trop vous demander de traduire ce mini dialogue. Merci.


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## timpeac

Je ne vais pas tout traduire mais pour commencer on parle de "strengths and weaknesses".

Si tu crées le passage on peut critiquer. Bienvenue !


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> Je ne vais pas tout traduire mais pour commencer on parle de "strengths and weaknesses".
> 
> Si tu crées le passage on peut critiquer. Bienvenue !


Intéressant ! Donc on parle plutôt de "forces" et "faiblesses" alors. 
Pourtant, une qualité peut être une faiblesse... dans certains circonstances, voire dans certains métiers... 

(Par exemple, avoir le coeur sur la main, quand on est trésorier, ça peut être embêtant. Avoir un caractère irrascible peut être un atout, pour être chef de service !  )

Mais bon, ce sont sans doute des considérations un peu trop vastes pour le sujet présent !


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## ijustloveenglish

merci pour vos reponses. Je croyaits qu'il y avait une traductuction plus litterale


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## pieanne

The pros & the cons? (les pour et les contre)
The qualities and the faults?


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## timpeac

pieanne said:
			
		

> The pros & the cons? (les pour et les contre)
> The qualities and the faults?


No, neither for a human, I'm afraid.


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## pieanne

Oh...  Sorry, Forget them, then!


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## geve

Ou alors - si on n'a pas peur de tergiverser - "the pros and cons for you to hire me", peut-être ? 

Mais on a le droit de ne pas vouloir tergiverser, aussi.


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> Ou alors - si on n'a pas peur de tergiverser - "the pros and cons for you to hire me", peut-être ?
> 
> Mais on a le droit de ne pas vouloir tergiverser, aussi.


 (do you mean "what are the pros and cons for me in hiring you"?) I just can't imagine that ever being said. For this meaning I think we would say "what can you offer the company?" but there is no element of asking for anything negative there, it is only asking for "qualités".

What is the problem with "strengths and weaknesses" (which I really think is what we would say in this situation)? I don't understand why all the francophones are trying so hard to find something different. Is it that in French you might also be asked for your "forces et faiblesses" and mean something different from "qualités et défauts?


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## Smac

geve said:
			
		

> Ou alors - si on n'a pas peur de tergiverser - "the pros and cons for you to hire me", peut-être ?


I can see nothing wrong with this expression.

The problem seems to be that the very common (in job applications and examination questions) English expression "strengths and weaknesses" is not a *translation* of "qualités et défauts" but I think it would probably be used in the same circumstances.


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> (do you mean "what are the pros and cons for me in hiring you"?) I just can't imagine that ever being said. For this meaning I think we would say "what can you offer the company?" but there is no element of asking for anything negative there, it is only asking for "qualités".
> 
> What is the problem with "strengths and weaknesses" (which I really think is what we would say in this situation)? I don't understand why all the francophones are trying so hard to find something different. Is it that in French you might also be asked for your "forces et faiblesses" and mean something different from "qualités et défauts?


I know my sentence with "pros and cons" was far-fetched, I was just trying to find a way to use pieanne's suggestion  But I didn't mean to question what you said, I trust you and will use strengthes and weaknesses if I ever meet such a situation.
(my sentence was meant to be said by the employee actually, which indeed is not what ijustloveenglish asked for - was it syntactically correct?)

So why don't we like "strengths and weaknesses"? I don't really know, maybe it sounds too "marketing" talk, like you're trying to sell a product (which you are in this situation, where you're trying to "sell yourself" to an employer). And also, as I said earlier, une qualité peut être une faiblesse...


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> I know my sentence with "pros and cons" was far-fetched, I was just trying to find a way to use pieanne's suggestion  But I didn't mean to question what you said, I trust you and will use strengthes and weaknesses if I ever meet such a situation.


Oh! I didn't feel that you weren't believing me - I could just tell that you all wanted to find something different and wondered why


			
				geve said:
			
		

> (my sentence was meant to be said by the employee actually, which indeed is not what ijustloveenglish asked for - was it syntactically correct?)


Yes - it's syntactically correct, but sounds strange to me and I can't imagine anyone ever saying that. But it sounds fine to Smac so maybe it's just me. As I say, I think you would say "what I can offer you" (I know that covers qualités only, but I can't honestly imagine someone saying for the défauts part!"


			
				geve said:
			
		

> So why don't we like "strengths and weaknesses"? I don't really know, maybe it sounds too "marketing" talk, like you're trying to sell a product (which you are in this situation, where you're trying to "sell yourself" to an employer). And also, as I said earlier, une qualité peut être une faiblesse...


Well, it is an extremely common question, and would likely be on most pre-interview questionnaires you would be asked to fill in.


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## geve

I understand that it can be technically correct and still not used in such situations. If "forces et faiblesses" were commonly used in job interviews we would certainly not think twice and take it for granted. We could also use "points forts"/"points faibles"... Actually, you could find it strange to ask about "qualités et défauts", they refer to personality traits more than professional skills. Obviously you're not supposed to answer "gourmandise" or "poor hygiene" or "j'ai une passion immodérée pour les jeux de mots foireux"...!
English might be more straight-to-the-point in this matter, or one step ahead, asking what you can bring to the company rather than how you are.


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> I understand that it can be technically correct and still not used in such situations. If "forces et faiblesses" were commonly used in job interviews we would certainly not think twice and take it for granted. We could also use "points forts"/"points faibles"... Actually, you could find it strange to ask about "qualités et défauts", they refer to personality traits more than professional skills. Obviously you're not supposed to answer "gourmandise" or "poor hygiene" or "j'ai une passion immodérée pour les jeux de mots foireux"...!
> English might be more straight-to-the-point in this matter, or one step ahead, asking what you can bring to the company rather than how you are.


I have been told that the French are much more personal in their interviews than the English: that in your pre-interview questionnaire/CV you give photograhps, say if you're married, how many children. We wouldn't ask personal questions like this.


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## Smac

timpeac said:
			
		

> But it sounds fine to Smac so maybe it's just me.


I think the ways you put it are more natural and usual, but geve's sentence seems quite understandable and correct.

Like you, I am puzzled why francophones want English to mirror their illogical pairing of two words in which the first includes the second whereas our expression includes a natural antithesis...


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> I have been told that the French are much more personal in their interviews than the English: that you give photograhps, say if you're married, how many children. We wouldn't ask personal questions like this.


Yes there usually is a photograph on the resume, it's not compulsory but most people do it. Family situation used to be systematically written on the resume too, I would say it is no longer a prerequisite but the employer might ask during the interview. Hobbies and personal interests are also a part of the resume - is that so in England?

And yes, you're right, Smac, on a les défauts de ses qualités. Et vice-versa.


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> Hobbies and personal interests are also a part of the resume


Yes it could, a couple of lines to show that you are at least human and not a work-machine (as if)


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes it could, a couple of lines to show that you are at least human and not a work-machine (as if)


Well this too has "the shortcomings of its qualities"... If you have hobbies, the employer could fear that you might want to leave work at a decent hour!  

...Back to topic: so maybe this difference qualités-défauts/strengths-weaknesses is linked to cultural specifities, ie. the French being more personal in their job interviews.

Just out of curiosity, and considering the name of this thread, how would you translate "qualités et défauts" in another context, for example talking about your best friend's new boyfriend about whom you have a mitigated opinion: _"Oui, il est sympa ton Robert. Bon, je dois dire qu'il est un peu difficile au premier abord... Enfin il a ses qualités et ses défauts, comme tout le monde, quoi."_

Qualities and shortcomings? Merits and failings?...


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> Well this too has "the shortcomings of its qualities"... If you have hobbies, the employer could fear that you might want to leave work at a decent hour!
> 
> ...Back to topic: so maybe this difference qualités-défauts/strengths-weaknesses is linked to cultural specifities, ie. the French being more personal in their job interviews.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, and considering the name of this thread, how would you translate "qualités et défauts" in another context, for example talking about your best friend's new boyfriend about whom you have a mitigated opinion: _"Oui, il est sympa ton Robert. Bon, je dois dire qu'il est un peu difficile au premier abord... Enfin il a ses qualités et ses défauts, comme tout le monde, quoi."_
> 
> Qualities and shortcomings? Merits and failings?...


"He's got good points and bad" springs to mind. "Plus points and minus" as well. "There's good and bad in him".


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> "He's got good points and bad" springs to mind. "Plus points and minus" as well. "There's good and bad in him".


So you don't need to say "points" again, or "ones"? (good points and bad [points][ones])?

And (still being curious...) in what kind of context would you use "shortcomings", if you ever use it for persons?


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## timpeac

geve said:
			
		

> So you don't need to say "points" again, or "ones"? (good points and bad [points][ones])?
> 
> And (still being curious...) in what kind of context would you use "shortcomings", if you ever use it for persons?


No, you don't need to repeat the "points" again. I liked your "shortcomings", but I couldn't think of a suitable positive pair to go with it!


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## geve

timpeac said:
			
		

> No, you don't need to repeat the "points" again. I liked your "shortcomings", but I couldn't think of a suitable positive pair to go with it!


Ok, then let's be sincere and say that Robert only has minus points 

(my apologies to any Robert who might be reading this)


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## HaiLe

"Qualités et défauts de quelqu'un" might be translated as "someone's qualities and failings".


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## HaiLe

"Qualities and failings"


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## calembourde

timpeac said:


> No, you don't need to repeat the "points" again. I liked your "shortcomings", but I couldn't think of a suitable positive pair to go with it!



Well, you can repeat it if you want... my first idea when I read geve's question was 'good points and bad points'. I think it sounds nicer with the second 'points', there is some symmetry about it.


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## Alpaka

timpeac said:


> No, neither for a human, I'm afraid.



so we cannot use "qualities and faults" for a human being?

and "qualities and failings"?


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## littlelylygirl

Hello  I was wondering; since the word "défaut" can be translated by "flaw" in English, then there must be a word(other than weakness) to translate "qualité"...? I am trying to write about someone and say "I tend to see his flaws a lot. Please help me see his (qualities?)." Sorry, I'm French and even though I've been learning English for about 11 years, I still find it weird to say "strengths and weaknesses" every time I mean "qualités et défauts". Well actually, it doesn't bother me when I put them together saying "strengths and weaknesses", but when I seperate them and talk about either one or the other, it just doesn't feel right(I always feel like I'm talking about someone's "forces" or "faiblesses"...)...............?????????


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## Smac

In response to Alpaka:


pieanne said:


> The pros & the cons? (les pour et les contre)
> The qualities and the faults?



I think *timpeac *was mainly rejecting the first expression for application to people. It almost always refers to something abstract - such as a plan. The second might perhaps be used in relation to a person but the terms "qualities" and "faults" do not go very naturally together so the phrase is understandable but not very good in any context. 

"Qualities" is a neutral term in English - more or less equivalent to "attributes" - so we need to speak of "good and bad qualities" or "negative and positive qualities" or "favourable and adverse" qualities - and so on!

In relation to people, we might speak of "virtues and vices" (though not in a job application - it is too strongly moralistic) or "merits and demerits" (again too moralistic or religious in its connotations to be used in a job application). On the other hand, "merits and defects" is pretty close to what is being sought, though not everyone would want to admit to any "defects"! I still think "strengths and weaknesses" is the best candidate - because of its strengths and despite its weaknesses.


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## GuanYu

Smac said:


> "Qualities" is a neutral term in English - more or less equivalent to "attributes" - so we need to speak of "good and bad qualities" or "negative and positive qualities" or "favourable and adverse" qualities - and so on!
> 
> In relation to people, we might speak of "virtues and vices" (though not in a job application - it is too strongly moralistic) or "merits and demerits" (again too moralistic or religious in its connotations to be used in a job application). On the other hand, "merits and defects" is pretty close to what is being sought, though not everyone would want to admit to any "defects"! I still think "strengths and weaknesses" is the best candidate - because of its strengths and despite its weaknesses.



Thanks for the information! I didn't know that 'quality' was a neutral word in English. 'Qualité' is always positive in French, it's the opposite of 'défaut' ('flaw' in English).
For a company looking at candidaes for a job the words 'strengths & weaknesses' are appropriate. However, for a random person looking at another random person (e.g. a girl looking at a boy she might want to date and weighing the pros and cons), I guess 'positive and negative traits' would be more appropriate. As a French person using 'qualités & défauts' in both situations, it's slightly frustrating not to find a perfect equivalent.

Thank you for the clarifications anyway!


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