# German Bixen (?) - Russian бикс



## Maroseika

German _bixen means '_to steal, to take away'. 

Is this word literary or dialectical? 
From what dialect is it?
Are there any more words with this stem?
Maybe somebody knows its etymology?


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## berndf

Maroseika said:


> German _bixen means '_to steal, to take away'.


Does it? Where did you get this information? I don't know it and didn't find it in a dictionary. (There is a noun Bixen in Austrian dialect. But this has a different meaning.)


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## Maroseika

I found this translation in the German - Russian dictionary:
bixen - dial. забрать с собой, утащить, украсть; стибрить (colloq.).

The reason I'm asking about this is that the Russian word _бикс _is reckoned to originate from the German _bixen_.
Бикс means 'steam sterilizer' (for medical instruments) or  'box for wound textile', and etymological idea is that the doctors of German origin in Russia could _bixen _such boxes, i.e. take with them to their patients.
However this version seems strange to me because even the dictionary says _bixen _is a dialectical word; and the meaning of this verb doesn't fit pretty much.
And now you say in fact _bixen _even doesn't mean 'to take away', that only strengthens my doubts.

But what does Austrian _Bixen _mean?


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## sokol

Maroseika said:


> But what does Austrian _Bixen _mean?


It is vulgar, and also not relevant here. 

But there is a verb which sounds similar to "bixen" - with a meaning that would fit: "stibitzen" which means "to steal", but it is oftentimes used in a joking way, more like an euphemism (or a "nice" version) for "stealing".
I'm not sure if it is possible to establish a relation between "stibitzen" > "(bixen)" (unknown to me too, in this meaning) > "бикс".


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## Maroseika

Hm... That's very strange. 
Version bixen > бикс is mentioned in several reputable Russian "dictionaries of foreign words" and, as I said before, _bixen _is contained in the largest German - Russian dictionary. However we cannot exlude that all these dictionaries descend  to one false source.

By the way stibitzen > стибрить looks quite tempting, though even Vasmer called this word (стибрить - to steal) "obscure".


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## sokol

Even good old Grimm does not have any reference to bixen. And Grimm contains many expressions which are already out of use or only regional. (Of course, Duden doesn't have an entry for "bixen".)

So probably yes, those Russian dictionaries might all refer to the same source mentioning this mysterious word "bixen".
(Another possibility - probably "bixen" is used in some Russian German dialects, and a lexicographer from Russian German origin wrongly put that word in the German dictionaries used in Russia: just trying to offer possible ways how this might have happened.)

But probably someone can still offer a more reasonable explanation. Whatever. 


Maroseika said:


> By the way stibitzen > стибрить looks quite tempting, though even Vasmer called this word (стибрить - to steal) "obscure".


Yes, for стибрить this looks indeed tempting, but if бикс were to be traced back to it it wouldn't be via стибрить but as a direct loan from German (so, possibly "stibitzen" loaned through shortening as бикс, and loaned anew through misinterpretation of the cluster /ts/ as /tr/).

But even this, as tempting as it may be, of course is only a wild speculation.


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## CapnPrep

Of course I don't know about any verb _bixen_ meaning "steal", but if Russian _бикс_ is some kind of box, then isn't it more likely to be related to _Büchse_ instead? (In which case _Bixen_ is not totally irrelevant after all…)


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## berndf

CapnPrep said:


> Of course I don't know about any verb _bixen_ meaning "steal", but if Russian _бикс_ is some kind of box, then isn't it more likely to be related to _Büchse_ instead? (In which case _Bixen_ is not totally irrelevant after all…)


Good thinking, "ü" being unrounded to "i" would give _bichsen_ for _büchsen_ which would be pronounced like _bixen_. But still no find.


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## Maroseika

CapnPrep said:


> if Russian _бикс_ is some kind of box, then isn't it more likely to be related to _Büchse_ instead?


This is very likely. At least there is a word in Russian evidently originating from _Büchse - _бюкс. The only problem however is that бюкс means 'weighing bottle' (in chemistry, medicine). It has something common with бикс (tank for something), so maybe бикс and бюкс originate from  _Büchse _independently_._


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## Maroseika

berndf said:


> Good thinking, "ü" being unrounded to "i" would give _bichsen_ for _büchsen_ which would be pronounced like _bixen_. But still no find.


I found one more word in my dictionary: _buchsen/__büchsen_- to steal smth. (no "dial." mark this time). Is there really such a verb in German or again my dictionary lies?

And here is real _bixen _from the Berlin dialect dictionary, linked by someone at another forum:
http://opus.kobv.de/zlb/volltexte/2008/6325/pdf/Brendicke_1897.pdf
p. 14 (in 'Aptheker')


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## sokol

I'm not aware of a German verb "buchsen" or "büchsen" - if one such exists it should be dialect but I doubt it that there is one.

The Berlin dialect link of yours only relates to two entries about "Bixen = Büchse" = more or less "box" ("Büchse" can have many meanings, but in this context it is clear that it is some kind of box).
This - Bixen = Büchse - is not only Berlin dialect but very widespread, probably known in most German dialects except Plattdeutsch.


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## berndf

From Northern usage I know "büchsen" in a somehow similar meaning in "ausbüchsen" meaning "to escape". This might be derived from "büchsen" in the sense of "to steal".

Many Eastern dialects unround "ü" as does, by the way, Yiddish.


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## Maroseika

One more example was provided to me from "Räuber":

Zwei goldene Sackuhren habe ich weggebixt, und ein Dutzend silberne Löffel dazu.
http://www.digbib.org/Friedrich_von_Schiller_1759/Die_Raeuber_.pdf

And therefore the following etymology was proposed:
(ein)büchsen < (ein)bixen < (ein)pyxen < Lat. pyxis (little box). 
In this case _bixen _should be the elder form that has survived in the dialects; and Austrian _Bixen _also may derivate from this word (box = vagina).


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## berndf

Maroseika said:


> And therefore the following etymology was proposed:
> (ein)büchsen < (ein)bixen < (ein)pyxen < Lat. pyxis (little box).
> In this case _bixen _*should be the elder* form that has survived in the dialects; and Austrian _Bixen _also may derivate from this word (box = vagina).


Not necessarily. The Classical Greek/Latin "y" corresponds phonetically to German "ü" and not to "i". The unroundig of "y" to "i" happend only in Byzantine Greek/Late Latin. German often retained the classical pronunciation, e.g. we pronounce "Analyse" as if spelled "Analüse".


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## sokol

Mod note:
Diskussion about Slovene biksati moved to this thread.


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