# İstanbul güzel (bir) kent



## mujahid7ia

<Mod note: This thread was split from here.>

Thanks for the replies Asr and Rallino, that clears it up.

I have a further question from similar exercises: when should "bir" be used?

The exercise said to translate this into Turkish: "Istanbul is a beautiful city. Istanbul is not a beautiful city." I translated it: "İstanbul güzel kent. İstanbul güzel kent değil." but the answer key says there should be a "bir" before "güzel". Similarly, a dialogue had the sentence: "İstanbul çok güzel bir kent" and another "Sinan Bey iyi bir öğretmen değil". Why is that?


----------



## themadprogramer

Okay let me explain this way: In Turkish we don't use "a". And we don't have any genders like French "un" or "une".

The pattern is:
Amount + Adjectives + Optional Classifier + Object.

Amount: Usually a number, it could also be a word like azcık or yarım that isn't necessarily a number.

Optional Classifier: The logic of this a bit difficult to explain. Certain words need to take a  classifier in order to sound proper. You could put bardak, şişe or fincan here for beverages, and when you aren't sure what to use tane or adet. But be warned there are some cases where using a classifier would be the wrong decision. Such as in this case. You can't use them for areas, whether you're being specific about the areas or not.

Object: Not the grammatical object, but the object that you want to specify the amount of.

So to say: "Istanbul is *a beautiful city*" -> "İstanbul *güzel bir kent*."


----------



## Rallino

Just an additional note to what Ahmet Akkoç said,
_İstanbul güzel kent_, without the _bir_ is not necessarily wrong. You can also say: _Pınar güzel kız gerçekten. _(Pınar is a beautiful girl, indeed.)
It has a rather poetic tone to it, so usually we do use the _bir_ in everyday Turkish.


----------



## Younis

I just read a news and they confused me without 'bir' : Erkek çocuğuna saldırdı.  I wonder he beats his own child or he bits someone else. 
If they had used 'bir'  i'd have understood he beats someone else not his own. 

So it means we should use 'a/an' in some situations.


----------



## Rallino

> If they had used 'bir'  i'd have understood he beats someone else not his own.


So if it had been _Erkek bir çocuğuna saldırdı_, you would have understood it as _he attacked someone else's child_?
No, it doesn't work that way. 

If the lack of punctuation is not a mistake, then the sentence, as it is, means:
Erkek çocuğuna saldırdı. = He/she attacked his male kid. (can be his own or someone else's.)
Erkek bir çocucuğuna saldırdı. = He/she attacked one of his male children. (can be his own or someone else's)

_Bir_ does not abolish such an ambiguity. You would have used _kendi_ to make it clear that it was _his own_.

Where did you see this sentence?


----------



## Younis

Bir erkek çocuğuna.  not erkek bir çocuğuna  

that bir means someone 

what if we say 'bir erkek, çocuğuna saldırdı ? '  see , how a 'bir' can change the meaning of sentence  thats why i love Turkish


----------



## FlyingBird

*erkek çocuklarından birine saldırdı *instead *erkek bir çocuğuna saldırdı
*would be correct to say like that?


----------



## Euphoria.

Erkek bir çocuğuna saldırdı 
Erkek çocuklarından birine saldırdı.


----------



## Euphoria.

By the way, 

If someone tells me "İstanbul güzel kent", I would understand it but still would expect additional words from him/her like "bence", "ya" (though it is quite informal) 

İstanbul güzel kent bence.
İstanbul güzel kent ya. 
İstanbul güzel kent valla. 
etc.


----------



## FlyingBird

i see you put bence, ya and valla in the end. Why you did not put them in the start?

is it correct to put them in the start and what is difference?

*İstanbul güzel kent bence vs Bence İstanbul güzel kent
İstanbul güzel kent valla vs Valla İstanbul güzel kent*


----------



## Euphoria.

You can also use them in the beginning of a sentence. It would not make any difference at all. (When you put "bence" in the end, you put the emphasis on it though) Turkish word order is generally flexible as you might know and I do not know why but I generally use inverted word order.


----------

