# 帝從容として曰く...



## Starfrown

Below is the _Kanbun_ rendering of a sentence in a certain classical Chinese text (note that the historical kana usage is observed):

 帝從容として曰く、「唐詩に云へる 有り、『林間に酒を煖めて紅葉を燒く』と、誰れか仕丁をして此の風流を作さしめたる」と。

I am already more or less familiar with the meaning of the original Chinese text, but I have a couple of questions about the Japanese.  

First, I cannot fully understand the construction 唐詩に云へる 有り, though clearly it must mean something along the lines of: "There is a saying in T'ang poetry..."  I suppose 云へる (read _ieru_) must be a nominal here, but I'm hoping that someone here can exactly specify its function and syntax. 

Secondly, I'm curious about 誰れか仕丁をして此の風流を作さしめたる (read _nasashimetaru_).  I've never seen the character 作 with this reading before, but I'm thinking that this line must mean literally: "...someone has made the worker perform this refinement."

Hoping for some elucidation,

Star


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## YangMuye

1,  いはく：いふこと/いふことには。noun/adjective. And のたまはく have the same usage.
云へる is 連体形 of 言へり, can function like a noun.
2,  It was originally written in Chinese that I think you have already known. The version you see is just a kind of 漢文訓読文. If you want to learn more, I suggest you can search 訓読（訓讀、訓読、くんどく but not くんよみ）
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1793970


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## Flaminius

Starfrown said:


> First, I cannot fully understand the construction 唐詩に云へる  有り, though clearly it must mean something along the lines of: "There is a saying in T'ang poetry..."  I suppose 云へる (read ieru) must be a nominal here, but I'm hoping that someone here can exactly specify its function and syntax.


I don't know much about specific rules in reading _kambun_ but, if I am allowed to read it as a regular classical text, then:
There is one in T'ang poetry that says (...)

Perhaps "one" is too vague but the most literal and the most versatile.  Different context warrant different clarification of "one."  I think "passage," "poem," or "writer" are good candidates here.

In a more serious analysis of the Chinese text, I think 有 in 有云 is an expletive (in the sense that "there" and "it" are in English; NOT "damn" and "shit" ).  So, it is "T'ang poetry says" in essence.  I cannot quote from my Chinese character dictionaries now but they mention a use of 有 before a verb that does not add any specific meaning to the sentence.



> Secondly, I'm curious about 誰れか仕丁をして此の風流を作さしめたる (read nasashimetaru).  I've never seen the character 作 with this reading before, but I'm thinking that this line must mean literally: "...someone has made the worker perform this refinement."


誰れか is not "someone" but "who" here.  The whole sentence is an interrogative:
Who has made the worker perform this refinement?
[I am glad to add that questions are marked by the regular period in the traditional orthography.]  

A cursory look at 日本国語大辞典 reveals that the _Wh-ka_ construction as existential quantifier (someone, somewhere, something) is far and few between in older texts upon which _kambun_ conventions are styled.  The above dictionary does not cite any instance from _Maňňyōshū_.  There is one quote from the 13th century but other examples are from as late as Edo Period.


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## Ghabi

Flaminius said:


> In a more serious analysis of the Chinese text, I think 有 in 有云 is an expletive (in the sense that "there" and "it" are in English; NOT "damn" and "shit" ).  So, it is "T'ang poetry says" in essence.  I cannot quote from my Chinese character dictionaries now but they mention a use of 有 before a verb that does not add any specific meaning to the sentence.


I don't know how to do the grammatical analysis but yes, 有云 just means "goes" as in "the proverb goes that ...".


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## Flaminius

Okay, 有云 is better translated as "goes" because it starts a quote or someone else's words. [Edit: "say" is better reserved for 曰]  Still, I cannot help thinking it is the same thing with 云 as in:
子貢曰、詩云、如切如磋如琢如磨

In that case, 有 seems to have no use other than just being there.  This is what I meant by it being an expletive.


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## YangMuye

Flaminius said:


> ...There is one in T'ang poetry that says (...)
> 
> Perhaps "one" is too vague but the most literal and the most versatile.  Different context warrant different clarification of "one."  I think "passage," "poem," or "writer" are good candidates here.
> 
> In a more serious analysis of the Chinese text, I think 有 in 有云 is an expletive (in the sense that "there" and "it" are in English; NOT "damn" and "shit" ).  So, it is "T'ang poetry says" in essence.  I cannot quote from my Chinese character dictionaries now but they mention a use of 有 before a verb that does not add any specific meaning to the sentence.



The grammatical analysis is not difficult. In Chinese, 有OO means OOあり, is a "perfect marker"(just like English "have done"). 有云 means 云ふ+有り. In Japanese,
云ふ+有り→いひあり→云へり, or 
云ふ＋つ＋あり→いひてあり→いってあり→いったり→いった
In modern Japanese, いってある、いっている、いった are different. But In classic Japanese and Chinese, they are the same.
Then 「唐詩有云」 should be translated as 「唐詩にOOOと云ってある」(modern Japanese). However the given 訓読文 is not a literal translation.
「云へる有り」 means 「唐詩にOOと言ったとこが有る」(modern Japanese)
In Chinese, the "quotation" is usually put in before or after a sentence, so 「XXX有云,OOO」means「It is said in XXX that OOO」「OOO is said in XXX」or 「XXX has said OOO」, but not 「there is a saying ...」



> 云へる (read ieru) must be a nominal here


Since 云へる is 連体形 of 云へり, it can be translated to 云ったの・云ったこと(modern Japanese).




Flaminius said:


> 誰れか is not "someone" but "who" here.  The whole sentence is an interrogative:
> Who has made the worker perform this refinement?
> [I am glad to add that questions are marked by the regular period in the traditional orthography.]
> 
> A cursory look at 日本国語大辞典 reveals that the _Wh-ka_ construction as existential quantifier (someone, somewhere, something) is far and few between in older texts upon which _kambun_ conventions are styled.  The above dictionary does not cite any instance from _Maňňyōshū_.  There is one quote from the 13th century but other examples are from as late as Edo Period.


Another reason why か must be 係助詞 here is that 作さしめたる is 連体形.



> I've never seen the character 作 with this reading before


Because the character was written as 作 in the original Chinese text and means なさる in Japanese, so we have to read in this way. This method is called 訓読.
作さしめたる ＝ なさる＋しむ＋たり＝する＋させる＋た→させた


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## Starfrown

Thanks to everyone for the detailed responses.



YangMuye said:


> 云ふ+有り→いひあり→云へり


I have a little experience with classical Japanese, but I was not familiar with this particular   音便.

I also did not realize that the classical   あり could be attached to the   連用形 to produce a completive/resultative form. 



YangMuye said:


> Another reason why か must be 係助詞 here is that 作さしめたる is 連体形.


 Could you elaborate a bit more on this point for my benefit?



YangMuye said:


> Because the character was written as 作 in the original Chinese text and means なさる in Japanese, so we have to read in this way. This method is called 訓読.


I figured that was probably the case. The book from which I drew the quote is a   漢文訓読 manual.



YangMuye said:


> 作さしめたる ＝ なさる??＋しむ＋たり＝する＋させる＋た→させた


Wouldn't the verb be  なす?


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## YangMuye

starfrown said:


> I have a little experience with classical japanese, but i was not familiar with this particular   音便.


り



Starfrown said:


> Could you elaborate a bit more on this point for my benefit?


係り結び
か



Starfrown said:


> Wouldn't the verb be  なす?


My mistake. It should be なす.


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## Starfrown

Thanks again Yang.

I had forgotten about _ri_ and its derivation from _ari_.


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