# rhymed or unrhymed



## Angel_17

"Poetry written in either rhyme or unrhymed lines"
this is the line
i think the translation will be
"la poesie qui est ecrit en lignes rimées ou sans rimées"
is it correct?


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## Gérard Napalinex

Hi Angel

More appropriate would be
"_La poésie en vers ou en prose_"


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## Angel_17

the whole sentnce will b like this?


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## Gérard Napalinex

You're welcome 

Yes, for once you have less words in french than in english !

vers = rhymed lines
prose = unrhymed lines

Enjoy !...

All right, maybe I forgot "écrite": _la poésie écrite en vers ou en prose_ is my best take


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## Angel_17

hehe thank u so much


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## Angel_17

u just saved ma day


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## Gérard Napalinex

Angel_17 said:


> u just saved ma day


Be my guest


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## Angel_17

one more thing :
in any casy "rhymed lines" will be translatd as "vers" and "unrhymed lines" as "prose"????


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## Gérard Napalinex

Yes.
Usage is as follows: 
Ce poème est (écrit) en prose = this poem has unrhymed lines
Ce poème est (écrit) en vers = this poem has rhymed lines
_écrit_ is optional, because you may as well be *hearing *the poem only - and not reading it.


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## Angel_17

ok thank u so much


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## djmc

I must disagree. Rhymed verse is metrical and rhymed. Much of English poetry is rhymed, however much is unrhymed. The bulk of the plays of Shakespeare and the epics of Milton are written in unrhymed iambic pentameters.  what makes it poetry is that it is metrical that is that it has a regular system of stress. French poetry normally rhymes, English poetry often does not.
Prose neither rhymes nor is metrical.


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## Angel_17

ok so wat do u suggest wud b the translation?


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## djmc

Your first translation looks appropriate. In English unrhymed poetry is often called blank verse, and indeed the first English poets wrote without using rhyme.


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## Ellea1

Hello,

Rhymed lines = poèmes en vers
Unrhymed lines = poèmes en prose


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## Angel_17

actualy this whole rhymed and unrhymed thing is about haiku which is a japanese type of poetry


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## djmc

Sorry to carry on about this but there is no similarity between unrhymed or blank verse and poèmes en prose. Stress is a very important aspect of English verse composition, rhyme is not. To me to describe a work such as Paradise Lost as a poème en prose would be totally misleading. Poetry in English would have a regular stress pattern but not necessarily rhyme. French poetry depends much less on stress pattern, almost entirely on rhyme. Classical Greek and Latin depend on the syllable length rather than stress and do not use rhyme at all. Haiku depend on syllable counts. All are clearly poetry and not prose. To me a poème en prose is a work such as those of Baudelaire which depicts a scene or an idea which may be considered as the topic of a poem using the sort of imagery one may use in poetry but in non metric prose.


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## Gérard Napalinex

djmc said:


> Sorry to carry on about this but there is no similarity between unrhymed or blank verse and poèmes en prose. Stress is a very important aspect of English verse composition, rhyme is not. To me to describe a work such as Paradise Lost as a poème en prose would be totally misleading. Poetry in English would have a regular stress pattern but not necessarily rhyme. French poetry depends much less on stress pattern, almost entirely on rhyme. Classical Greek and Latin depend on the syllable length rather than stress and do not use rhyme at all. Haiku depend on syllable counts. All are clearly poetry and not prose. To me a poème en prose is a work such as those of Baudelaire which depicts a scene or an idea which may be considered as the topic of a poem using the sort of imagery one may use in poetry but in non metric prose.


Your knowledge of rhyme, meters, syllable length and metrics is indeed impressive.
Well, thank to you, I've been there http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vers_(poésie)
and there http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose
to understand that "un vers" has only constraints of metrics, but does not necessary have rhyme.
Knowing this, I'll have to leave behind me all my fellows ignorants, who most commonly mean "vers rimé" when they say "vers".

Thank you, you made my day


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## Gérard Napalinex

So eventually, and to resume with Angel's question, it seems the following is more accurate
- rhymed lines = lignes avec rimes
- unrhymed lines = lignes sans rimes
Litterally speaking, "vers" should be used only if the lines follow metric rules (think of Baudelaire's example given above).

Well, am trying my best, but still under djmc's control - fresh knowledge for me still 

And even if very true, have to say this will seem odd to many - 99.9% of the people I know would say a poem is made of "vers".


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## Lyloo14

The problem seems to be that there's no specific different word in french than "prose" and "vers", but some "vers" do rhyme, while some other do not...We definitely don't speak the same language concerning poetry. Not even talking about Haiku, who follows very different rules than french or english poetry...

For Shakespeare and Milton, this is what I've found about their respective poetry :
Lorsque les pentamètres iambiques ne riment pas entre eux, on parle de _blank verse_ (vers blanc). Il s'agit du type de vers le plus fréquent dans les pièces de Shakespeare. Lorsque les pentamètres riment deux à deux, comme c'est le cas dans _Le Paradis perdu_ de John Milton, on parle d'_heroic couplet_.


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## djmc

Your source is right concerning blank verse and heroic couplets that the one is without rhyme the other rhymed couplets, both iambic pentameters. However it is wrong about Milton's Paradise lost which is in blank verse.


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## Angel_17

I am so much thankful to all those who took concern and participated in  thread and helped me alot as i am doing my thesis of masters and i have  to submit it soon
each and everyone of you saved my day
i am gratefull to everyone of you


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## Gérard Napalinex

My pleasure Angel
And all the best for your thesis


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## Angel_17

Thank you for wishing me just remember me in your prayers


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## Cath.S.

I would use _vers libres (free verse),_ not_ prose, to translate_ _unrhymed lines_. 
A _poème en prose_ does not have any lines, it's written like an ordinary text - but its theme and/or style are poetic.


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## djmc

Vers libre is just that: free, a lot of modern English poetry is like that. Traditional English blank verse is not at all free. It uses a relatively fixed rhythmic scheme, and there are also rules about having a break or not (caesura) in the middle of a line. Before the 19th century there were conventions about what vocabulary is used in poetry. Because it is not rhymed does not mean that it is not rule bound. In many ways blank verse is similar to French alexandrine verse and used for the same sort of work but the French is rhymed and the English is not.


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## Meille

djmc said:


> Sorry to carry on about this but there is no similarity between unrhymed or blank verse and poèmes en prose. Stress is a very important aspect of English verse composition, rhyme is not. To me to describe a work such as Paradise Lost as a poème en prose would be totally misleading. Poetry in English would have a regular stress pattern but not necessarily rhyme. French poetry depends much less on stress pattern, almost entirely on rhyme. Classical Greek and Latin depend on the syllable length rather than stress and do not use rhyme at all. Haiku depend on syllable counts. All are clearly poetry and not prose. To me a poème en prose is a work such as those of Baudelaire which depicts a scene or an idea which may be considered as the topic of a poem using the sort of imagery one may use in poetry but in non metric prose.


 
Wow. I, for one, will go to bed tonight less ignorant. Thank you.


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## Cath.S.

djmc said:


> Vers libre is just that: free, a lot of modern English poetry is like that. Traditional English blank verse is not at all free. It uses a relatively fixed rhythmic scheme, and there are also rules about having a break or not (caesura) in the middle of a line. Before the 19th century there were conventions about what vocabulary is used in poetry. Because it is not rhymed does not mean that it is not rule bound. In many ways blank verse is similar to French alexandrine verse and used for the same sort of work but the French is rhymed and the English is not.


Very interesting. But we are not looking for a translation of _blank verse _here, are we? Just "unrhymed". If you ask native French speakers what_ vers libres_ means to them, most of them will answer "Ce sont des vers qui ne riment pas".
The question is about _haiku_, not Shakespearian poetry.


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## Angel_17

thank you all for so much knowledge and concern
please can anyone finally tell me what will be the translation of these two words: "rhymed and unrhymed"???


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## Gérard Napalinex

Angel_17 said:


> thank you all for so much knowledge and concern
> please can anyone finally tell me what will be the translation of these two words: "rhymed and unrhymed"???


Hi Angel,

Well,  it seems that, just like me, so much knowledge put your head in a whirl, right ?

Now, back to your initial point, here my understanding:
Since haikus follow rules regarding syllables only and not metrics, some purists will not allow to say they are made of "vers", but of "lignes". So in the first place you need to take your call here, in order to translate _lines_, either with _vers _or _lignes_.
You only need to be aware that, while litterature experts will be keen on this choice of words,  the average people will expect _vers_, just because you're referring to a poem - know your readers first !

The rest is way easier: rhymed is "_rimé_", and unrhymed would be "_sans rime_".

HTH


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## Angel_17

Thank you so so much
Once again you saved AND made my day


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## Gérard Napalinex

Angel_17 said:


> Once again you saved AND made my day


Most welcome - but let's make no habit of it


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