# well into oystering



## HolyUnicorn

Hello,

Autumn passes, winter comes, and the watermen must still go out on the Bay without the pleasure of a pause. Most, but not all, will be *well into *oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind.

Beautiful Swimmers: Watermen, Crabs and the Chesapeake Bay by William W. Warner

How can I interpret “well into” here? “Well into” is usually followed by a time phrase.

well into something
_Fig._ far into something or far along in something.
well into


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## london calling

'Something' has nothing to do with time. You're getting confused with 'sometime' , I think.

The definition is correct and makes perfect sense here.


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## The Newt

The "something" can be a season or a process or any number of other things.


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## PaulQ

to be into something = to be involved in something.
to be well into something = to be heavily involved in something.


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> to be well into something = to be heavily involved in something.


That's not the case in American English.  We are very into something.


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## PaulQ

Myridon said:


> We are very into something.


That's strange, the book from which the example is taken is written by an American local to Chesapeake Bay. It might be the New England influence.


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## Ponyprof

It's still literary language in America. And the meaning is different.

I'm very into surfing means I enjoy it.

To be well into something means to be far along on an activity, not to enjoy it specifically.

I am very into surfing. I was well into my Saturday routine of mowing the lawn when I looked at the beach and saw the big waves were starting to roll in. So I dropped everything, grabbed my surfboard, and ran into the ocean.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

It means that they will not merely have just begun the oystering season, but instead will have been oystering for several weeks: that is, they are well into it.

Consider these:
Some people do not start their Christmas shopping until November or December, but Jane always begins no later than July, and by September she is well into it.

About an hour after breakfast, I gathered all the term papers that had been submitted by the students, and by lunchtime I was well into the process of grading them.


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## Loob

Re posts 4 & 6.
Paul, I would take "well into" in the quote in post 1 as meaning "well advanced in" rather than "heavily involved in".

_Doubly cross-posted_


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> That's strange, the book from which the example is taken is written by an American local to Chesapeake Bay. It might be the New England influence.


That's because you're reading the original in British English.  In American English, it says "far along into oyster season" not "very involved in the activity of oystering."


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## kentix

The time phrase is "by the time of dry gales and cold wind" which happens at approximately the same time every year.

_Most, but not all (of the crabbers), will have been oystering for quite some time by the time the season with dry gales and cold wind arrives._

As soon as the crabbing season finished they would start oystering, well before the coldest weather arrived.


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## PaulQ

HolyUnicorn said:


> Autumn passes, winter comes, and the watermen must still go out on the Bay without the pleasure of a pause. Most, but not all, will be *well into *oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind.





Loob said:


> Re posts 4 & 6.
> Paul, I would take "well into" in the quote in post 1 as meaning "well advanced in" rather than "heavily involved in".


I admit that I do not see that at all:
Autumn passes, winter comes, and the watermen must still go out on the Bay without the pleasure of a pause. Most, but not all, will be *well into *oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind.


Myridon said:


> That's because you're reading the original in British English. In American English, it says "far along into oyster season" not "very involved in the activity of oystering."


I'm not sure how it is possible to tell. One way or the other they will be heavily involved in oystering. The example is as above.


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## Roxxxannne

As an American English speaker, I take 'well into' doing something as referring to a passage of time or progress in some activity, not with how excited or serious one is about the activity.
I was well into the book when I realized that it was missing the last ten pages.
I was well into my French studies when I found out that feuilles is not the same word as fouilles.
We were well into April before the snow finally melted.

It's a less specific way of saying
I was 200 pages into the book when I realized ...
I was four years into my French studies when I found out that ..
We were two weeks into April when ...

Indeed, every year oystermen are heavily involved in oystering.  But it's seasonal, and it starts in, let's say, October.  By early December they are well into oystering; they've been oystering for a month.

If someone asked me what I was doing these days in my spare time, I might say "I'm heavily into knitting [I enjoy knitting and knit a lot all year round], and right now I'm well into a sweater [I've knitted much of it already].  I have only one sleeve and the collar left to knit."


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## london calling

Loob said:


> Re posts 4 & 6.
> Paul, I would take "well into" in the quote in post 1 as meaning "well advanced in" rather than "heavily involved in".
> 
> _Doubly cross-posted_


Me too, which is what I meant in post 2 when I said the dictionary definition was correct.


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## Andygc

Roxanne, as a British English speaker, I take 'well into' doing something as referring to a passage of time or progress in some activity, not with how excited or serious one is about the activity. That also seems to be the case for Loob and London calling. So clearly there is no reason to suspect an AE/BE divide.

Although there might be contexts other than oystering in Chesapeake Bay where it could refer to enthusiasm. "My grandson's well into Fortnite" - not that I'd actually say that myself.


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## kentix

I can't imagine any context where I would use it that way meaning enthusiasm. So _maybe_ that is an AE/BE difference - you have an additional meaning we don't have.


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## Roxxxannne

Andygc said:


> Roxanne, as a British English speaker, I take 'well into' doing something as referring to a passage of time or progress in some activity, not with how excited or serious one is about the activity. That also seems to be the case for Loob and London calling. So clearly there is no reason to suspect an AE/BE divide.
> 
> Although there might be contexts other than oystering in Chesapeake Bay where it could refer to enthusiasm. "My grandson's well into Fortnite" - not that I'd actually say that myself.


I took PaulQ's comment (#4) to mean that "well into oystering" means "heavily involved in oystering" which means "I am very serious about my activity of oystering."  To me, that is the same as "My grandson's well into Fortnite."

i agree with kentix: the difference (perhaps not an actual divide)  is that BrE uses the phrase in two ways, and AmE doesn't.  "My grandson's well into Fortnite" would not make sense to an American unless there's a passage of time involved.


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## Andygc

Roxanne, I think my point was that for this BE speaker (and it seems at least two others) "well into oystering" means the same to me as to you. I don't use "well into" to mean heavily involved in, although some do. *I would not say* but would not be surprised by "he's well into stamp-collecting", but I would think "he's well into collecting stamps" decidedly odd. The first is the same construction as my Fortnite sentence, the second is the same construction as oystering. I hope that you can see the difference.

So no, there's not an AE/BE difference, there's a BE/BE/AE difference


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## kentix

I don't think you two are disagreeing. What Roxanne is saying and I am agreeing with is that there is no context in American English where it has the meaning Paul interpreted. Not with stamp collecting or anything else - even by _some_ speakers (as far as we are aware).


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## Roxxxannne

kentix said:


> I don't think you two are disagreeing. What Roxanne is saying and I am agreeing with is that there is no context in American English where it has the meaning Paul interpreted. Not with stamp collecting or anything else - even by _some_ speakers (as far as we are aware).


Yes, thanks, that's what I meant.


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## Andygc

I understood. Perhaps I should have said that there is a BE/BE split. It is completely and absolutely impossible for me to understand "Most, but not all, will be well into oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind." to mean anything other than the same as it means to you as AE speakers.


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## PaulQ

Andygc said:


> It is completely and absolutely impossible for me to understand "Most, but not all, will be well into oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind." to mean anything other than the same as it means to you as AE speakers.





> "Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
> "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
> _Alice in Wonderland._


[There is a knock at the door. Jane opens it to see David there.]
David: "Is James at home? I need to speak to him."
Jane: "Yes, but he is very busy. He has been in his study for the past three hours and he will be well into writting the annual report."

*BE: to be well into something = to be heavily involved in something. *


HolyUnicorn said:


> Autumn passes, winter comes, and the watermen must still go out on the Bay without the pleasure of a pause. Most, but not all, will be *well into *oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind.


In BE, you can be *well into* an activity or well into a defined period of time. You will note that the OP's quote describes an activity.


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## Loob

PaulQ said:


> BE: to be well into something = to be heavily involved in something.


Sorry, Paul, that's simply wrong as a general statement - though I wouldn't deny that it might have that meaning for some people and in some contexts.
I would take your Jane quote as meaning that David's writing of the report is likely to be at an advanced stage.


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## Andygc

Actually, the OP's quote described a time-limited activity. Oystering is seasonal. The fishermen are well into a period of time. It remains impossible for me to interpret this to mean that they are heavily involved in dredging for oysters - they're either doing it or not doing it - there's no such thing as a dilettante oysterman.



Loob said:


> I would take your Jane quote as meaning that David's writing of the report is likely to be at an advanced stage.


Exactly as I understand it.


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## Roxxxannne

Andygc said:


> ... dilettante oysterman.


If only I were in need of a name for a rock band.


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## kentix

Andygc said:


> Actually, the OP's quote described a time-limited activity. Oystering is seasonal.


I think that's the key. Oystering has a season and that introduces the time element. It says they get no rest because when the crabbing season is over they immediately move to oystering. It's describing how they divide their efforts over the course of a typical year. They're not out there because it's fun, they're out there because it's what they need to do to put enough money in their pocket to survive.


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## Roxxxannne

kentix said:


> I think that's the key. Oystering has a season and that introduces the time element. It says they get no rest because when the crabbing season is over they immediately move to oystering. It's describing how they divide their efforts over the course of a typical year. They're not out there because it's fun, they're out there because it's what they need to do to put enough money in their pocket to survive.


And "by the time of dry gales and cold wind" the oystering season is well along.  They're "well into" the oystering season.


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## london calling

Andygc said:


> It is completely and absolutely impossible for me to understand "Most, but not all, will be well into oystering by the time of dry gales and cold wind." to mean anything other than the same as it means to you as AE speakers.


And for me too.


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> [There is a knock at the door. Jane opens it to see David there.]
> David: "Is James at home? I need to speak to him."
> Jane: "Yes, but he is very busy. He has been in his study for the past three hours and he will be well into writting the annual report."
> 
> *BE: to be well into something = to be heavily involved in something. *
> 
> In BE, you can be *well into* an activity or well into a defined period of time. You will note that the OP's quote describes an activity.


I think one problem is your meaning of "heavily involved."  For me, one could be heavily involved in writing the annual report without writing a single page, but one would only be well into writing the annual report if a considerable bit of it was written.


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## Roxxxannne

The British use of "well into" as meaning "very much involved in" (Andygc's comment #15) sounds like it is closely connected to the British English (at least the non-American English) use of 'well' to mean 'very,' as described in this English language learner StackExchange discussion.  Am I correct?
I see this use occasionally in the webcomic 'Bad Machinery' (by John Allison), which takes place in the fictional town of Tackleford in West Yorkshire.


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## london calling

Yes, Rox. I don't say it myself but I recognise the usage.

Edit. I first came across this forty-odd years ago. A friend of mine from Derbyshire often described things as "well good". I do wonder if this is a throwback to an older form of English.


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## kentix

What about well versed? Is that the equivalent of "very"? That's definitely used in the U.S.

(Dictionaries go both ways on whether "well versed" uses a hyphen.)


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## london calling

I don't think 'well' means 'very' in _well-versed_. I think it just means... well.


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## Roxxxannne

Or like "well nigh broke the record."  There it definitely means 'very close to' (where nigh = near).


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## PaulQ

kentix said:


> What about well versed? Is that the equivalent of "very"?


It seems to be the equivalent of the archaic adverb "goodly". _(Often, but not always, with the idea of an advantageous quantity)_


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## Loob

london calling said:


> Edit. I first came across this forty-odd years ago. A friend of mine from Derbyshire often described things as "well good". I do wonder if this is a throwback to an older form of English.


_{Tinkling sound of pennies dropping....} _
PaulQ, you're from Derbyshire, aren't you?


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## PaulQ

Aye...'appen... worrovit?


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## london calling

And do you say "well good"?


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## PaulQ

No - I associate that with "Only Fools and Horses" - Cockney/Estuary.

An example of both meanings (possibly from my own idiolect) might be "The game was well into (at a good distance into) the second half and Simpson, full back for the home team, was well into (heavily involved in [or, occupied by]) fouling the opponents."


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## london calling

But it isn't originally Cockney/Estuary. My Cockney grandmother would never have said it. It was imported from elsewhere in the UK at a later date, in my opinion  (_Only Fools and Horses _is from the 80s).

"The game was well into (at a good distance into) the second half and Simpson, full back for the home team, was well into (heavily involved in [or, occupied by]) fouling the opponents." 

That works for me too, but the second one is a relatively recent usage for me.


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## kentix

That second one is the one missing from the U.S., as far as my experience goes.


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## PaulQ

london calling said:


> That works for me too, but the second one is a relatively recent usage for me.


Excellent - it's not just me then.


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