# Translations that mislead the public



## asm

I read this article in a Mexican newspaper. It basically says that VW had to remove their ads in Hispanic neighborhoods because of a translation problem. They used the word "cojones" which in Spanish means testicles, but in some American areas, it means "darin" or "brave".

I just found this article interesting to the WR community

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/articulos/29796.html


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## teqyre

Do you really think it was a translation problem, though, or just a slogan that some people thought was in bad taste?
To have balls = to be daring or brave = tener cojones, so "turbo-cojones" and "turbo-balls" would basically mean the same.
To me it just seems more like a bad advertising slogan that offended some people.


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## grumpus

Hi fellows,
I agree with teqyre, it seems just kind of like bad taste.  Reminds of an add I saw in Spain,
which said that a certain watch was very "sexy" and at the end of the commercial it showed a small dog trying to hump a lady's wrist.  (I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP!)

A better translation manipulation meant to mislead the public was when the U.S. media raised a ruckus because Hugo Chavez called Bush a "pendejo" (which Bush is).  The U.S. media translated it as "asshole" when it really meant some more like "stupid".  "Asshole" is more inflammatory and would give the idea that Chavez is very uncouth (perhaps, he is).

saludos,
Grumpus


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## fenixpollo

I think it was a translation problem -- a native English-speaker or a bilingual person who didn't realize how offensive that word can be in some places.


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## GenJen54

Regardless, advertising agencies (don't know who handles VW Mexico) spend copious amounts of money for cross-cultural marketing to avoid this type of scenario. I guess this is an example where either the budget was too tight, or some creative director thought they'd be clever.

I've only ever known "cojones" to mean balls.

_You're going to go tell the boss what?!!! Man, you've got cojones. _(You've got balls, guts, daring.) 

I've never heard it used in any other context.

I would assume they thought Mexican Spanish-speakers understood this translation, which is cultural, not literal.


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## teqyre

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> I think it was a translation problem -- a native English-speaker or a bilingual person who didn't realize how offensive that word can be in some places.


But if the slogan was in English and said "Turbo-Balls", don't you think it would offend some people too? That's why I would say it was more of a badly chosen slogan than a translation issue.
Having said that, I don't know exactly how offensive the word "cojones" can be in Mexico or amongst Latinos in the US, but in Spain I'd say it's more or less on the same level as "balls" in English.


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## Bettie

I know what cojones means, but at least where I am from in Mexico, it's not used, we think that that word is more frecuent in Spain,


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## maxiogee

I would have thought that the concept of someone having 'cojones' was too long established for an advertisement headline to be "a misunderstanding". People in advertising are too clued in to how language is used to make a mistake like that.


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## fenixpollo

teqyre said:
			
		

> But if the slogan was in English and said "Turbo-Balls", don't you think it would offend some people too?


 I agree that "balls" used in that sense would be as offensive in English as in Spanish.  However, there's no indication that "turbo-balls" was ever a slogan in English or that "turbo-cojones" was a translation of anything.  I don't think it was used intentionally by someone trying to be controversial and daring; I think it was used unintentionally by someone who didn't realize just how vulgar _cojones_ are.

I have two theories on this: 
a) the translator was a native English-speaker with enough Spanish knowledge to be dangerous: enough to know many words but not understand all of the cultural ramifications.  English-speakers who openly discuss the bravery of a person by talking about how "he's got a lot of balls" will often interchange "balls" for "cojones" (pronounced /koe-hoe-knees/) and be readily understood.  Another common example of this is the word _estúpido_, whose gravity is greatly underestimated by English-speakers; 
_or_
b) the translator grew up speaking both English and Spanish fluently, but his/her Spanish was conversational and included _groserías_ that he/she didn't realize were that bad.  I have met scores of people in my life, some of them translators, whose understanding of their native language was limited to a very conversational and colloquial style of expression.

An analogy is apparent if you have ever worked with English-speaking teenagers: it is a lost cause trying to convince them that _crap_, _dork_, "_that sucks_!", "_that blows_!" and _bitch_ were once curse words and that they should be used with caution around older generations.


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## danielfranco

I personally think that the translating firm that did this ad for VW (unless it was done in-house, but who knows?) must have warned them about the cultural issues... I mean, translating firms have to have bonding and insurance to be able to certify their translations... I think that whoever "greenlighted" this ad project wanted a reaction from the public precisely because it's rather cheeky to say that a car has "cojones". I don't think it was a mistake, and I don't believe the translation to be misleading in any manner at all. It was just poor judgement about how much they could push the envelope with the Spanish-speaking audience.
Dan F


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## maxiogee

Indeed, danielfranco.
Imagine all the publicity which this has probably gained. They have probably earned more media time and space than they bought for the adverts before they were pulled.
I'm reminded of several deliberately outrageous posters run for the Bennetton clothing company. They were pulled in many countries after howls of outrage and earned a lot of coverage. The adverts had little or nothing in them relating to the company or its products.


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## badgrammar

GenJen and Maxiogee have touched on the truth of the matter:  There is no way this was a translation "error".  

If you have ever worked in the advertising domain, as a translator or in practically any other capacity, you know that NOTHING goes out before it has been approved, or "validated" by a long, long, long string of people and departments.  

Somewhere along the way, someone took the initiative and said "Hey, I like this, it will work, lets say "turbo-cojones", it will get us a lot of publicity, blah blah blah...".  

Then the idea was presented to this person's superiors, and then to their superiors, and then to countless people at VW, from the Marketing Department, and perhaps all the way up to the head honcho himself.

Along the way, there would have been supporters and nay-sayers, the ones who wanted to take a risk, and those that said it was too risky.  But eventually, the supporters won, and the decision was made that the slogan would be used, whatever their reasoning was. 


Along the way, hundreds of individuals from both the VW and the ad agency were consulted, and many, many of them undoubtedly spoke Spanish and/or were from Mexico themselves.

So they put up those billboards knowing it was a risk, and the rest is history!

Now way was it an error.  Translation errors don't get that far up the advertising campaign ladder.  Error in judgment, perhaps, but they knew exactly what it meant....


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## fenixpollo

badgrammar said:
			
		

> If you have ever worked in the advertising domain, as a translator or in practically any other capacity, you know that NOTHING goes out before it has been approved, or "validated" by a long, long, long string of people and departments.


 While you may be correct that this was not a translation error, are you suggesting that marketers never commit cultural errors in translation?  And who in the marketing department approves/validates translations?  Other native speakers of the target language?


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## la reine victoria

Footballer David Beckham (King of the Chavs), formely of Manchester United, and Captain of England, now of Real Madrid, is affectionately known by his fans (count me out) as 'Golden Balls'.  This, appparently, gets his female fans very excited.  Yuk!   Give me standard balls any time.

I recently heard a report, from the Stock Exchange, that the company French Connection UK (logo *FCUK*) has suffered heavy profit losses.  This has been attributed to their logo (which, I'm sure, everyone will understand, was a deliberate play on the word  'fuck' ).  Young (and not so young) people proudly wore their T shirts 'Born to Love, Love to Fcuk'.

I have heard young females, in pharmacies which sell perfume, ask, 'Do you stock any of those  fuck  perfumes?' 

'How are the mighty fallen in the midst of battle.'


LRV


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## badgrammar

I absolutely did not say they do not commit cultural errors (re:"Error in judgment, perhaps, but they knew exactly what it meant....).  They may have decided to take a risk on the campaign and go for this bolder slogan, and then they realized too late that their target public did not like it.  Error on their part in terms of the cultural acceptance.

Marketers certainly DO commit cultural errors in translations, but this probably exists in translations of less importance, ones that are lengthier, etc.  But a new ad campaign for VW is not the same as a VW brochure about a new car.

Who validates?  In both the ad agency and the company itself, there are Project managers, Department managers, heads of creative teams, PR folks, etc., and there are also the company presidents, vice-presidents -- and plenty of people who give their opinions, and discuss the pros and cons.  It's a lengthy process, trust me.

Surely any ad campaign destined for Mexico would be done in coordination with an ad agency in Mexico, that is my assumption.  I could probably find out who the ad agency was with a google search.  It is probably an agency in Mexico (perhaps a branch of one of the HUGE international agencies that exist) that handled the campaign.  

They don't just box up the whole campaign up in New York and ship it down to the guys who stick it on the billboards in Mexico.  

I've worked with a lot of people from marketing in my time, they take it all pretty seriously...


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## fenixpollo

The article that asm posted from Mexico City's newspaper said that this was VW's *American* ad campaign for the Spanish-speaking market, and that the billboards appeared in New York, Los Angeles and Miami, but had to be pulled.

I believe you that marketers take their work seriously.  I also believe that they make mistakes (or errors in judgement, as the case may be), just like the rest of us.


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## oxazol

I like this thred because I also read this new. I have a very extensive "work" (it's not serious, a powerpoint very funny but real) with all the meaings of cojones in spanish, but I have to say that it mostly used in Spain. There is more than 20 different meanings for this word depending on the context, but always it is not very polite

For me the slogan is a bit stupid and "too much forced". They wanted a kind of spanglish but the result is very bad.


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## badgrammar

Interesting observation, Oxazol, that they proobably were looking for something kind of "spanglish", but missed their mark.  And most Americans know the word "cojones", and atleast where I come from (Texas), you hear it in conversations where the person uses it in place of "balls".  Since it's a foreign word, I guess it seems more polite...

And Felix, actually I'm guilty of not having read the article, shame on me .  For sure, they did it intentionally, but it turned out to be a mistake.


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## oxazol

only some examples of the use of cojones in Spain:
*Manda cojones!* Expresion of surprise or exclamation
*Unos cojones!* No question about this. To express diagreement with something
*Tener cojones! *A person: to be brave; a thing: similar to manda cojones
*Por mis cojones! "Por mis cojones que lo vas a hacer"* To express your intention and authority
*Costar un cojón *Be very expensive
*Ser un cojonazos *To be lazy or carefree
there are lots of them but I don't remember now.

I have found this:
 
-estar hasta los cojones to be pissed off 
-hincharle los cojones a alguien to piss somebody off 
-salirle a alguien de los cojones yo digo lo que me sale de los cojones I say what I damn well like! 
-tener cojones  to have balls 
-tocarse los cojones nosotros aquí trabajando como monos y él en casa tocándose los cojones we're here slaving away and he's at home sitting on his butt 
-hoy le toca a él, ¡qué cojones! it's his damned turn today! 
-encima dice que yo tengo la culpa, ¡manda cojones! and to cap it all, he says it's my fault, what a nerve! 
-tiene que pasar por aquí por cojones he has to come this way whether he likes it or not, he has to come this way, he's got no bloody choice 
-este coche de los cojones this damned car


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## fenixpollo

badgrammar said:
			
		

> Interesting observation, Oxazol, that they proobably were looking for something kind of "spanglish", but missed their mark. And most Americans know the word "cojones", and atleast where I come from (Texas), you hear it in conversations where the person uses it in place of "balls". Since it's a foreign word, I guess it seems more polite....


That's exactly why I'm saying that it was a... how you say... not a mis-translation, exactly, but a cultural faux-pas made not by someone who understands the meanings of _cojones_ and wanted to be ballsy, but by someone who didn't understand.



> And *Fenix*, actually I'm guilty of not having read the article, shame on me . For sure, they did it intentionally, but it turned out to be a mistake.


Felix is a cat.  I'm a chicken.  

I agree that it was a mistake, but I still disagree that it was done with full understanding of what they were doing.


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## maxiogee

Of course marketing people make errors of not researching words properly. There are stories about cars such as the _Vauxhall Nova_ which, if split into 'no va' means "it doesn't go" in Spanish, and Pepsi was said to have had trouble with the translation of "Come alive with Pepsi" into Japanese - the story goes that the wording used read as "Pepsi brings your ancestors back to life."

So yes, there are mistakes, but there are also deliberate errors!


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## fenixpollo

I just found this quote about the VW ad: 





> Volkswagen's intent was to pitch the sporty, fast car, which has a sticker price starting at $23,000, to young, bilingual Hispanics whose first language is English but who retain ties to their Latino heritage.
> 
> "We wanted something that broke out of the mold and carried the connotation of being strong and gutsy," says Daniel Marrero, creative director for the Miami-based agency, CreativeOndemanD, that came up with the ad. "This is a word adapted in the American vernacular. We never thought it would be an issue."


 Seems that they didn't know just how vulgar a word it is in Spanish.


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## badgrammar

Great follow-up!  Thanks Fenix!


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