# closet Christian



## Icara

Hi, everybody. 
I need a little help. I can't translate properly the adjective "closet" into Italian: who is a "closet Christian"? Does it mean something like "in disguise"? 
Thank you!


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## Paulfromitaly

E' fondamentale che tu scriva:
- la *frase originale intera*
- * la tua  traduzione *
e ci dia qualche informazione a proposito del *contesto*,  grazie 

Cosa  significa "*aggiungere il contesto*"?


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## elfa

"Closet" means when you don't own up to being something. A "closet gay" would be someone who doesn't want to be known as gay, for example. So a "closet Christian" would be someone who doesn't acknowledge being Christian in public. It's a derogatory term because it means the speaker considers that person to be hypocritical.

So now...how would one translate that?


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## velisarius

"Cristiano segreto". It isn't necessarily derogatory ; there are still plenty of places where Christians are persecuted.


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## elfa

velisarius said:


> "Cristiano segreto". It isn't necessarily derogatory ; there are still plenty of places where Christians are persecuted.



Hi velisarius,

I'm certainly not making a judgment call about Christians in general. You may be right that it's not necessarily derogatory, but I think we need to see the context. It's an adjective that certainly says more about the speaker than the person being described.


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## Icara

Sorry for being unclear. This word is used in a romance I am reading: "They could not enter the church doorway, unless they were closet Christian". I suppose this means that the characters are not Christian at all. Is it right?
Thank you.


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## london calling

E' già nel dizionario e ci sono diversi thread che ne parlano, guarda qui, Icara.


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## Paulfromitaly

Ho visto usare il termine cripto-cristiano, che forse è un po' troppo ricercato in questo contesto.
Non vuol assolutamente dire che non sono cristiani, ma che sono cristiani non dichiarati.


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## Pat (√2)

Paulfromitaly said:


> Ho visto usare il termine cripto-cristiano, che forse è un po' troppo ricercato in questo contesto.



A me piace, però...
Se no, "segretamente cristiano", così come si dice "segretamente omosessuale"? "Celatamente cristiano"?


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## tsoapm

Icara said:


> "They could not enter the church doorway, unless they were closet Christian".


Could you give us some more context please, or perhaps correct it if there’s a mistake? This doesn’t really make sense to me; sounds like there's some kind of Christian-detecting force-field.


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## Icara

"Segretamente cristiano" seems the most suitable meaning to me... it sounds like "being Christian without revealing this". 
Thank you all!


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## ElFrikiChino

Hi!
Shouldn't it be closet*ed*? I've never seen _closet something_, but maybe it's the author's style?

EFC


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## elfa

ElFrikiChino said:


> Shouldn't it be closet*ed*? I've never seen _closet something_, but maybe it's the author's style?



Definitely not "closeted" EFC   To be a "closet" someone is an expression, the meaning of which has already been discussed. I agree with Mark that it is a strange use of it here - but the meaning of it is fairly clear, that the people being described won't or cannot reveal themselves to be Christian.


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## ElFrikiChino

Why not? Is it *only* used when talking about LGBT people? (here)

EFC


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## Tegs

ElFrikiChino said:


> Why not? Is it *only* used when talking about LGBT people? (here)
> 
> EFC



No, Elfa was saying that* closet* is a lot more common than closeted -both in the case of Christians and in the case of gay people. Gay people who are hiding their sexual orientation are said to be* in the closet*, or a* closet lesbian* etc.


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## london calling

ElFrikiChino said:


> Hi!
> Shouldn't it be closet*ed*? I've never seen _closet something_, but maybe it's the author's style?
> 
> EFC


No. Have a look at my post 7: there's a link to the WR dictionary and all the other threads about the same word.

Edit. Scusa, ho visto adesso il link, hai ragione: dev'essere AE, però - mai sentito in BE.

.


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## elfa

Tegs said:


> No, Elfa was saying that* closet* is a lot more common than closeted -both in the case of Christians and in the case of gay people. Gay people who are hiding their sexual orientation are said to be* in the closet*, or a* closet lesbian* etc.



Well, reading EFC's link, I must say that I hadn't even *heard* of "closeted" when referring to LGBT people - which probably goes to show that I'm not at all on-trend or it's not a BE expression... To me, yes, "closet" is the one I'm familiar with.


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## Tegs

Well, I don't think I've ever heard anyone BE talking about "closeted" gay people, but grammatically-speaking there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe it's something that you're more likely to see in written form. If I saw a document discussing "closeted gay people" that would look fine to me and I wouldn't think there was anything weird about it.


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## tsoapm

Well, if we're talking about grammar, I would have said that "closeted" implies the passive i.e. that someone has "closeted" someone else, whereas "closet" is less specific.


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## velisarius

Mark Dobson said:


> Well, if we're talking about grammar, I would have said that "closeted" implies the passive i.e. that someone has "closeted" someone else, whereas "closet" is less specific.



True,and also in tandem with "Christian" it brings to mind "cloistered", i.e. shut away in a monastery.


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## Tegs

Mark Dobson said:


> Well, if we're talking about grammar, I would have said that "closeted" implies the passive i.e. that someone has "closeted" someone else, whereas "closet" is less specific.



That didn't occur to me at all  It still doesn't sound weird to me though.


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## ElFrikiChino

Wow, I trigger a whole discussion. Anyway, I'm more familiar with AE and I'm 100% sure I've heard and read of _closeted_ someone. Maybe in BE is not that common 

EFC


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## longplay

I would suggest the italian short sentence "in incognito" (no one knows they are Christians , except them and 2,3,...other persons, maybe). Ciao.
PS Anche "nascostamente Cristiani" o "Cristiani di nascosto"o "Cristiani in segreto, non dichiaratamente Cristiani".


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## You little ripper!

ElFrikiChino said:


> Wow, I trigger a whole discussion. Anyway, I'm more familiar with AE and I'm 100% sure I've heard and read of _closeted_ someone. Maybe in BE is not that common
> 
> EFC


It actually has more Google hits.

closet gay
closeted gay


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## london calling

You little ripper! said:


> It actually has more Google hits.
> 
> closet gay
> closeted gay


Hardly surprising: there are more Americans around than Brits!

To me a _closeted gay/Christian _would be someone who'd been locked up in a cupboard or something to keep them away from the rest of the world.....


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## Icara

ElFrikiChino said:


> Why not? Is it *only* used when talking about LGBT people? (here)
> 
> EFC




Nope, it is not "closeted". However, at this point the meaning is clear. 
Perhaps, seeing as "closet" is used for coming-outs, the author wanted to use a light style (as he does anyway) or crack a joke to say "secretly" (in this case, "cripto-cristiani" would suit it!). I read an example posted in the Forum talking about "a closet poet". It seems quite similar now (thanks to your explanations!).

Thank you Longplay for the suggestions, they seem perfect.


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## You little ripper!

london calling said:


> Hardly surprising: there are more Americans around than Brits!


I don't it has anything to do with BE/AME/Other English, Jo. I think the two expressions are used in slightly different ways and it depends on the context. UK Google also has more listings for closeted gay  than it does to closet gay.


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## london calling

You little ripper! said:


> I don't it has anything to do with BE/AME/Other English, Jo. I think the two expressions are used in slightly different ways and it depends on the context.


So what's a _closeted gay_, in your opinion? Not what I said below, I hope!


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## You little ripper!

london calling said:


> So what's a _closeted gay_, in your opinion? Not what I said below, I hope!


They both mean the same thing to me - they're just used differently. 'Closet gay' is a noun (isn't that what we call a _compound noun_? ) and 'closeted gay' is a noun with an adjective attached to it (I presume that has a name, but grammar and I are enemies ).


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## Paulfromitaly

If I were asked to point out the difference between "closet gay" and "closeted gay" I'd say that, to me, closeted is somehow more forceful than closet (which is, too, an adjective here) as if the person had no choice but to remain in the closet.


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## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> If I were asked to point out the difference between "closet gay" and "closeted gay" I'd say that, to me, closeted is somehow more forceful than closet (which is, too, an adjective here) as if the person had no choice but to remain in the closet.


I don't see that difference, Paul, but maybe some do. I also think that that 'closet gay' is used as a noun here (you will sometimes see a hyphen between the two words) just like closet queen, but I'm not into grammar, as I said earlier.


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## london calling

You little ripper! said:


> I don't see that difference, Paul, but maybe some do.



I _do _see it, Charles, hence my bad joke of earlier.


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