# Thread flags: Native needed / answered



## Quaeitur

I have read a few topics here on incomplete answers and on the fact that posts with a couple answers don't get as much attention as new ones. I have also often being confronted with the need to write "but wait for a native speaker to comment on this". Sometimes in the morning, I also go back and check threads written during the night, but I can't go through all of them (and thankfully Quebecois are on watch when French/Belgium and Swiss people sleep!). 

So I was wondering if it would be possible to have a "native speaker needed" flag and/or a "question answered" one to flag down posts. 

I realize this is seriously subject to abuse, but depending on how good the people writing the codes here are (), there could be some solutions. I am thinking mostly of weighing flags using the number of users flagging, the number of posts of the users, the unflagging by native speakers, mod override and what not. 

Anyway, any thoughts?


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## EmilyD

This has been suggested before, and surely someone will post the thread(s).  alas, I cannot recall their titles.

I recall that one concern is "native speakers" are not always any more helpful than others who arrive at the language by adoption (and with passion and precision).

I don't have a strong opinion, but I appreciate the way you phrased your suggestion...

Best wishes to all.

Nmi


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## TrentinaNE

I think we should encourage senior members in particular not to skip past a thread that already has 2 or 3 responses because they assume the question has been resolved.  There seems to be some unspoken status issues about being the "first" to respond to a thread.  Quite often the most useful information doesn't come until response No. 4, 5, 6, ... or 12!  

Elisabetta


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## cuchuflete

Hi Quaeitur,

I'm answering as a member, not as a moderator.  I believe we have had at least two very good threads about replies by native and non-native speakers.  I remember some especially pointed, useful, and typically bemusing comments by danielfranco.  The point is that natives makes many mistakes, and some non-natives have, due to a different perspective, better insights into some usages than many natives.  I have learned much from non-natives posting answers in English Only, and have seen some atrocious posts by native speakers in many of these forums.  

All that said, there are some colloquial expressions and odd idiomatic constructions that only a native is apt to be able to explain, with rare exceptions.  Still, our voluntary reply system seems to work reasonably well much of the time.  I often get PMs from non-natives, directing me to their threads.  This, of course, requires no custom coding or code maintenance!

I can see benefits in the flags you suggest, but if and only if those who respond to such hypothetical flags are competent in their native languages.  Sadly, there is no way to address that issue with software.  (_Well, actually there is, but it opens another can of worms.  )

Here are a couple of threads with some insights on the topic in general:

_*What is your attitude towards non-natives answering your queries?*

*  Behold! The native speaker has, erm, spoken... *


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## Paulfromitaly

TrentinaNE said:


> I think we should encourage senior members in particular not to skip past a thread that already has 2 or 3 responses because they assume the question has been resolved.  There seems to be some unspoken status issues about being the "first" to respond to a thread.  Quite often the most useful information doesn't come until response No. 4, 5, 6, ... or 12!
> 
> Elisabetta



That's very true especially in the light of the fact that, even though we've been begging members to pose detailed questions with a comprehensive context, many people seem not to catch the drift yet and therefore they don't provide context from the beginning, but only on request.


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## Quaeitur

I am afraid I wasn't clear at all in what I tried to explain. 

I *do not suggest at all* that the original poster could flag its own thread and say "only native speakers please". And yes it is very fine to encourage natives to check on old threads. And of course non-natives can bring forth great answers. I do it myself, and like to flatter myself by thinking my answers are good 

But let's face it, it doesn't always work.

My suggestion was to allow that kind of flagging to be done by the people answering the thread, when they think some extra help is needed. An alternative would be to have a "question answered" flag, so that the incomplete answers are easy to spot among the answered ones.


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## cuchuflete

The moderator team, all those rolly-polly ladies and gents who sit around eating dark chocolate and drinking goose milk with their watercress sandwiches, may shoot me for this, but we already do have a means to implement the flag suggestion.  

Whether we should implement it is another matter.  I'm still writing as a forero, so don't take this as any sort of policy statement.  It's just a big "what if...?"


What if... someone were to report a post or PM a moderator requesting that a thread be tagged with NN?  That's short for 'native needed'.  Then, anyone in a forum who likes to comes riding to the rescue could find all such threads quickly and easily using the tags.  

Maybe I should have my morning coffee before dreaming about such stuff.


<ducking behind desk smiley>


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## TrentinaNE

And what about all the threads that also "need a native" but are *not* marked as such?  This system would make (at least some) people think all is copacetic with those threads so they can just (continue to) skip over them. 

Pretty soon, people will figure out that the only surefire way to get attention is to put this "urgent priority" marker on their thread, every thread will have it, and nothing will have changed.

Elisabetta


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## ascension

This seems like a wonderful idea, but sometimes the person who starts a thread may not be able to judge when his or her question has been completely answered. Many times I've thought that the first reply to my question was exactly what I needed, but then someone else will come along and say that the first answer was incorrect or incomplete.

Another problem I see is that this would make it difficult to ask questions in previously started threads. At least in Spanish-English, I believe we are encouraged to ask questions in an already existing thread if there is one with the same topic. If this thread had an "already answered" flag, no one would ever look at it.


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## Benjy

The second I read the opening post I thought "why not just add some tags?". They don't cost anything if no one uses them, and if they are useful we all win.


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## Quaeitur

The best would be to have a flexible flag system and some rules. For example, the type of rule used for posting links could be applied here too (100 posts before being allowed to flag NN),  the original poster cannot flag his/her own post with NN, if three persons flag it as answered, then it is answered. If someone asks a new question in an old thread, it can be set back to unanswered. If a mod overrides a flag, it sticks, and stuff like that. I am hoping this kind of albeit complex method might be useful in getting more complete or accurate answers to more posts.


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## Quaeitur

Benjy said:


> The second I read the opening post I thought "why not just add some tags?". They don't cost anything if no one uses them, and if they are useful we all win.



Excellent idea  The tag symbol could just be displayed in a different color if the incomplete answer tag is chosen


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## Loob

I see drawbacks to both "native needed" and "question answered" flags. 

In English Only, where I've spent the majority of my time since discovering WRF, I've definitely learnt as much from non-native speakers as from native speakers of English. Were there to be a "native needed" flag, I'd want there to be a parallel "non-native needed" flag, so that I could call for assistance from people who had been taught "rules" in the way most native speakers haven't.

As to the "question answered" flag: who is to decide? I've lost track of the number of times I've seen discussions in EO continue well beyond the point where the OP has said "Thank you, it's clear now". There are many reasons for this: the initial advice may have been less than complete or less than accurate; the OP may have misunderstood; there may be ways of explaining the answer which are of more general utility etc etc etc. 

I'm also finding it difficult to see the problem that the "native needed" and/or "question answered" flags would be addressing. If there's a problem over threads with a couple of answers not getting as much attention as new threads, then perhaps the answer is, as Elisabetta says, to encourage people not to skip past a thread that has 2 or 3 responses?

All that said, it may be that I'm missing something here through never having spent much time in the "translation" forums. (Even when I used to hang out in the Spanish/English forums, it was usually in Gramática rather than Vocabulario General.)


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## cuchuflete

I am uncomfortable with the idea of a thread that is definitively  "answered".  Though it may have been answered to the full satisfaction of the thread starter, I have seen many such threads that continue on for dozens of posts because other participants in the conversation are not fully convinced that the matter has been resolved.  (We have had a few threads in this C&S forum about marking threads "resolved/answered/finished/etc.)

I see no harm in any thread participant, whether the thread starter or another forero, asking, by way of a tag, for either native or non-native participation.  This is done in text all the time, by such statements as "Let's wait for a native speaker".  The request in itself is not harmful, so long as the readers do not make the grave error of taking all native speakers' pronouncements as somehow authoritative just because they come from natives.  Like Loob, I have learned much about my own language from non-native speakers of it.


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## Quaeitur

Loob said:


> .
> If there's a problem over threads with a couple of answers not getting as much attention as new threads, then perhaps the answer is, as Elisabetta says, to encourage people not to skip past a thread that has 2 or 3 responses?



That would of course be ideal.  I'd be more than glad to hear any suggestion on how to implement this concretely.

As for the "native needed" flag, let's assume some French speaking person asks a question in the French vocabulary forum. Often, I feel I can answer it satisfactorily, other times, I am not entirely sure of myself, so I -and other native French speakers offer suggestions, telling the original poster that a native English speaker might disagree. And many of us write the famous "but wait for a native to confirm". Unfortunately, often, this confirmation doesn't come. Of course, it would be ideal if when logging in, we would read all the posts that came since our last login, but well, you can imagine that it's a bit unrealistic. Hence the need I felt for a native needed flag to be used in cases such as these.

Another alternative, if it is possible to search text inside all posts, would be to use a uniformed formulation (a string of characters). That way, a easy search show us the posts needing attention.


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## TrentinaNE

Quaeitur said:


> That would of course be ideal.  I'd be more than glad to hear any suggestion on how to implement this concretely.


For one thing, everybody who has read this thread can *just start doing it*.  

Elisabetta


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