# Mickey mouse courses



## IXL

Bonjour,

Is there a neat idiomatic equivalent in French for the term 'mickey mouse courses', meaning university degrees which involve little academic rigour and which have little relevance within the jobs market, or would it be possible to simply transfer the phrase into a french text? Is the term familiar to francophones? 

The context is: "_the so-called mickey mouse courses offered by some former polytechnics"_

I'm really not sure how to translate this! 

Thanks


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## micheline3

I have never heard of mickey mouse in French, but I know that sometimes people refer to the Arts du spectacle degree as something of little relevance with the current market and making it hard to find a job ! Not that i believe this is the case


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## Bah Humbug

In Canada, we call those "bird courses" (if you mean an easy course such as one you would take just to bring your average grade up, but that teaches useless information).

I don't know what the French is for that though.  Maybe a native can help.


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## IXL

Thank you micheline3  I think 'mickey mouse degrees' is more of an umbrella term, encompassing things like arts du spectacle, media studies etc. I think I'll have to go with an explanation which clarifies its pejorative nature, like:
 
*les licences 'mickey mouse' (les licences qui nécessitent peu de rigeur académique...)*


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## IXL

Bah Humbug said:


> In Canada, we call those "bird courses" (if you mean an easy course such as one you would take just to bring your average grade up, but that teaches useless information).
> 
> I don't know what the French is for that though. Maybe a native can help.


 
Bird courses is interesting. Do you know the origin of that? In the UK mickey mouse courses refers more to whole degrees than particular classes, although the principal is pretty much the same. We also refer to particular subjects (usually pre university level) as "soft" subjects. I have to say I largely disagree with people using these terms though, I think a lot of the tabloid writers who lambast media studies etc. as "soft" probably took the very same courses themselves!


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## archijacq

diplômes fantaisistes


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## kertek

Maybe "cursus bidons" is not far from the English.


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## archijacq

ou encore: formations/diplômes de pacotille


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## IXL

wow lots of ideas there, thank you


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## mgarizona

I would suggest that a proper translation has to stress the 'overly-simple' notion at the heart of describing somthing as Mikey Mouse, and not the sense of 'worthless' which derives therefrom.

Something that is Mickey Mouse is the very opposite of something that is _une gageure_. It's a sure-thing, a cake-walk. (Hence its worthlesness.)

So what's the opposite of _une gageure_?


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## Teafrog

kertek said:


> Maybe "cursus bidons" is not far from the English.


 That's precisely what I thought of -> des cours *bidons*

"Mickey-mouse" anything, means that whatever you are referring to is not worth much, or as much as a cartoon (as good as a joke, in fact…).

Thus, a mickey-mouse boss or a mickey mouse job, etc., means un patron ou un boulot qui ne vaut (presque) rien, quasi mauvais. Zieutez ici.


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## mgarizona

I'll just note that to my American ears the idea of "a Mickey Mouse boss" doesn't make a lot of sense. (Perhaps a boss who doesn't ask you to do any real work???) I see it gets a whopping 4 hits on Google, all BE, so perhaps the meaning of the phrase has distorted somewhat during its passage.


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## Teafrog

mgarizona said:


> I'll just note that to my American ears the idea of "a Mickey Mouse boss" doesn't make a lot of sense. (Perhaps a boss who doesn't ask you to do any real work???) I see it gets a whopping 4 hits on Google, all BE, so perhaps the meaning of the phrase has distorted somewhat during its passage.


I plucked it out of thin air ; I meant a useless boss, one who doesn't know his/her arse from his/her elbow and is only in his position thanks to his/her private connections… .
The overriding meaning is 'next-to-useless'…


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## Budd

Maybe it's a little late to get into this, but here goes. In AE, Mickey Mouse is used less often than it was some 20 years ago; I'd incline to avoid using it and find something better--e.g. in AE "sandbox" used as an adjective as in "sandbox classes." It has generally meant simple, simple-minded, mindless, absurdly trivial, and possibly too easy, as in a Mickey Mouse Course. Roughly, it is the equivalent of turning something presumably somewhat advanced into a kindergarten, but it's use has never been restricted to academia. Easy course used to be called "gut courses" on American campuses.

And just to flavor the mix, Mickey Mouse movies in Hawaii in the '60s were short porn films. Va savoir!


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## pmqs

courses inutiles?


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## jbelmont

Non pas "inutiles" mais plutôt "très facile".  Ces cours Mickey Mouse pourraient être bien utiles pour les athlètes, par exemple!


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## Budd

jbelmont said:


> Non pas "inutiles" mais plutôt "très facile". Ces cours Mickey Mouse pourraient être bien utiles pour les athlètes, par exemple!


 
Justement! Mais bien sûr ce n'est pas seulement les athlètes qui suivent ces programmes.


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## jbelmont

Absolutely!  
J'ajoute que AE "course" n'est généralement qu'une "class".  Donc, 

"What courses are you taking this semester?"  
"I'm taking Physics 120, Chemistry 101, and French Lit. 220. Chem 101 is kind of a Mickey Mouse course".


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## edwingill

" à la noix"


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## pmqs

je ne suis pas d'accord, que 'Chem 101', pourrait etre nommé 'Mickey Mouse', au moins au sens dans lequel je le sait.


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## Budd

J'ajoute que AE "course" n'est généralement qu'une "class".

Not always, jb.  I remember hearing undergraduates say, "His class is a gut," perhaps referring to one section of a large course where otherwise it wasn't so easy.  A really easy course, by the way, was "a gaping, galloping gut," swell alliteration, but otherwise "galloping" makes no sense.


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## Budd

edwingill said:


> " à la noix"


 
If "à la noix" means _hopeless_, as I understand, this doesn't seem a very good fit, even if we take the phrase to mean hoplessly bad or dumb, etc.


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## edwingill

Budd said:


> If "à la noix" means _hopeless_, as I understand, this doesn't seem a very good fit, even if we take the phrase to mean hoplessly bad or dumb, etc.


I thought it meant "sans valeur"


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## wildan1

edwingill said:


> " à la noix"


 
I vote for this one

_un cours à la noix - qui ne vaut pas grand'chose_


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## Budd

edwingill said:


> I thought it meant "sans valeur"


 
WR (under "noix") gives hopeless in the sense I used it: hopelessly bad. My Larousse gives _lousy_ and _crummy. I think "à la noix" _implies _de coco_, i.e., scatter-brained.


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## Cath.S.

wildan1 said:


> I vote for this one
> 
> _un cours à la noix - qui ne vaut pas grand'chose_


Oui, mais l'ennui c'est que si l'on parle d'un cours au contenu potentiellement enrichissant, mais donné par un prof incompétent, on pourra aussi parler de 
_ce bouffon de professeur Durand avec son cours de psycho sociale à la noix / à la mords-moi-le-noeud._


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## edwingill

Petit Robert gives:"de mauvaise qualité, sans valeur"


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## itka

Budd said:


> WR (under "noix") gives hopeless in the sense I used it: hopelessly bad. My Larousse gives _lousy_ and _crummy. I think "à la noix" _implies _de coco_, i.e., scatter-brained.



Indeed, in WR  "à la noix" translates "hopeless"... I'm afraid it is wrong.
"à la noix" is properly what Wildan said : "qui ne vaut pas grand-chose"... Nothing to do with "hope" (as far as I know, but I can be wrong... "hopeless" could have another meaning that I don't know...)


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## edwingill

Budd said:


> WR (under "noix") gives hopeless in the sense I used it: hopelessly bad. My Larousse gives _lousy_ and _crummy. I think "à la noix" _implies _de coco_, i.e., scatter-brained.


Petit Robert gives:"de mauvaise qualité, sans valeur"


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## Budd

"hopeless" could have another meaning that I don't know...) 

Exactly.  "Hopeless" in this sense has nothing to do with despair: it means awful, bad, dumb beyond rescue.  In that sense it is not so far removed from "sans valeur," but the tone is quite different.


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## Cath.S.

itka said:


> Indeed, in WR "à la noix" translates "hopeless"... I'm afraid it is wrong.
> "à la noix" is properly what Wildan said : "qui ne vaut pas grand-chose"... Nothing to do with "hope" (as far as I know, but I can be wrong... "hopeless" could have another meaning that I don't know...)


_Hopeless _veut souvent dire_ désespérément nul,_ en fait.

Ex.
_I'm hopeless at programming = je suis désespérément nul(le) en programmation._


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## itka

Budd et Egueule, je suis bien d'accord avec vous, mais ce n'est pas le sens de "à la noix"...


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## jbelmont

Ça dépend, n'est-ce pas, sur le niveau de l'étudiant(e) et de son monde?  Ici je peins un(e) vrai(e) snob(e).


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## edwingill

Budd said:


> If "à la noix" means _hopeless_, as I understand, this doesn't seem a very good fit, even if we take the phrase to mean hoplessly bad or dumb, etc.


Petit Robert gives :"de mauvaise qualité, sans valeur"


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## Cath.S.

jbelmont said:


> Ça dépend, n'est-ce pas, sur le niveau de l'étudiant(e) et de son monde? Ici je peins un(e) vrai(e) snob(e).


Bien sûr, cela dépend du contexte. Un snob pourrait parler de petits cours ridicules pour simples d'esprit, dire que l'on y fait faire aux étudiants des pâtés de sable. Les possibilités sont infinies.


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## Nicomon

egueule said:


> petits cours ridicules pour simples d'esprit, dire que l'on y fait faire aux étudiants des pâtés de sable. Les possibilités sont infinies.



_Cours pour simples d'esprit_ (salut Cath ) se rapproche de _bird course_ (voir le post de BahHumbug) 
qu'on pourrait traduire librement par _cours pour cervelles d'oiseaux _ (en étirant un peu le sens) 

Je dirais _un petit cours facile / un vrai cours de maternelle _ou _des crédits faciles _ dans ce sens québécois du mot crédit :


> [Québec] Unité de valeur dans l’enseignement collégial et universitaire. Un cours donnant droit à trois crédits. 90 crédits nécessaires à l’obtention d’un baccalauréat.



J'aime bien la solution d'archijacq : _cours/diplôme de pacotille_.  _À la noix _me plait moins, mais je conviens que cela peut... convenir.  

Trouvé :  


> 9.     Qu'est-ce qu'un bird course ?
> a)     un cours d’ornithologie
> b)     un cours de Badminton 101
> c)     un cours qui demande peu de travail ou d’acuité intellectuelle


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## temple09

In England (and probably in other countries) there is a company called "Fisher Price", who make toys for children (toy cars, toy radios, toy cookery sets etc). When I was at university we used to joke that a degree like "journalism" or "media studies" were just "Fisher Price Degrees".


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## Cath.S.

Je relis ce fil et voulais juste revenir sur _bidon_ : cet adjectif ne s'accorde pas, à ma connaissance ; il faudrait écrire _des cours bidon_.


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