# No son unas vacaciones en la playa lo que necesito



## Quiendijo

Hola 

No estoy segura de usar 'that' o 'what' en esta frase.

No son unas vacaciones en la playa lo que necesito, sólo unos días tranquilos en el fondo de mi casa.

It's not holidays on the beach what (that) I need, just some calm days in the back garden of my house.

Gracias


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## The Newt

It's not holidays on the beach* that* I need...


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## Cerros de Úbeda

Quiendijo said:


> It's not *some* holidays on the beach *what / that* I need, just some calm days in the back garden of my house.



- Lo que = What
- Que = That

El relativo 'lo que' se traduce siempre / casi siempre, 'what'.

Sin embargo, aquí se pueden usar las dos, creo, por ir en esa estructura de enfatización 'It isn't... that...'.


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## The Newt

Cuando la oración _empieza_ con "Lo que necesito...," sí se puede decir "_What_ I need..." Per en este ejemplo "what" es un error.


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## gengo

The Newt said:


> It's not holidays on the beach* that* I need...



Just to make it clear to others, the above is British English, as we don't use "holidays" in that sense in the US.  We would say "It's not a vacation on the beach that I need."

And as Newt says, "what" is definitely incorrect here.


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## sheri_f

I'm not sure about British English compared with American regarding the structure (not the vocabulary): Holidays on the beach aren't what I need, but rather...


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## The Newt

All of the following are correct:

It's not holidays on the beach *that* I need...
Holidays on the beach aren't *what* I need...
*What* I need isn't holidays on the beach...

But in standard English you can't switch "that" and "what" in any of those examples.


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## Quiendijo

It's clear. Thanks to all of you


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## Rodal

Debes usar "what" in: "It's not what I need"


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## Rodal

gengo said:


> Just to make it clear to others, the above is British English, as we don't use "holidays" in that sense in the US.  We would say "It's not a vacation on the beach that I need."
> 
> And as Newt says, "what" is definitely incorrect here.



Gengo, I know you are a native however I believe this should be: "it's not a vacation what I need", which is the same as saying  It's not a vacation on the beach *what* I need. (no es vacaciones lo que necesito).

You could use the conjunction "that" if you said the following: it's not a vacation on the beach *that* I find pleasant, it's the fact that I'm going to spend this time with you that makes it worthwhile.

Please let me know what you think.


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## Quiendijo

Rodal said:


> Debes usar "what" in: "It's not what I need"



Ahora estoy confundida... Claro, porque es 'lo que' necesito


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## elprofe

Rodal said:


> Gengo, I know you are a native however I believe this should be: "it's not a vacation what I need", which is the same as saying  It's not a vacation on the beach *what* I need. (no son vacaciones lo que necesito).
> 
> You could use the conjunction that if you said the following: it's not a vacation on the beach *that* I find pleasing, it's the fact that I'm going to spend this time with you that makes it worthwhile.
> 
> Please let me know what you think.



No entiendo tu razonamiento para dar por correcto
_· It's not a vacation that I find pleasant_ 
pero no
_· It's not a vacation that I need_

La construcción correcta en la oración de "Quiendijo" es "that". Es la misma construcción que las siguientes:
_· It was not yesterday THAT I saw him
· It is not him THAT I saw yesterday_


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## Cerros de Úbeda

elprofe said:


> La construcción correcta en la oración de "Quiendijo" es "that". Es la misma construcción que las siguientes:
> _· It was not yesterday THAT I saw him
> · It is not him THAT I saw yesterday_



Nope.

The difference here is in the reference of those relatives 'what' and 'that'.

One is pointing to a 'referent', a thing or reference mentioned before, 'holidays on the beach' (as a thing or concept).

While the other is referring to the whole phrase, the thing being negated, 'a holidays on the beach'.

Which here both are the same...

The idea or phrase negated in the 'It is not... that...' structure, coincides in this sentence with the nominal referent of 'what' - hence the confusion.


Both usages are possible, depending on what the speaker refers to. 

If he/she is emphasizing the negative, he will use 'that', as part of this emphatic structure. 

If he/she is rather referring to his / her holidays, he/she will use 'what'.


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## Rodal

elprofe said:


> No entiendo tu razonamiento para dar por correcto
> _· It's not a vacation that I find pleasant_
> pero no
> _· It's not a vacation that I need_
> 
> La construcción correcta en la oración de "Quiendijo" es "that". Es la misma construcción que las siguientes:
> _· It was not yesterday THAT I saw him
> · It is not him THAT I saw yesterday_



That versus What

'That' replaces 'who' or 'which' most of the time.
'The dog that lives next door doesn't bite' = 'The dog which lives next door doesn't bite'.

'What' replaces 'the thing' or 'the things'.
'Do what I say, not what I do' = 'Do the things I say and not the things I do'.
"It's a vacation *what* I need = A vacation is the thing I need.


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## Marsianitoh

The Newt said:


> All of the following are correct:
> 
> It's not holidays on the beach *that* I need...
> Holidays on the beach aren't *what* I need...
> *What* I need isn't holidays on the beach...
> 
> But in standard English you can't switch "that" and "what" in any of those examples.


 In "It" cleft sentences you cannot use "what", just " that" or "who".
"It is a vacation what I need" is wrong. You can say:
I need a vacation.
What I need is a vacation ( wh cleft sentence/ pseudo cleft sentence)
It is a vacation that I need.( It cleft sentence)
Cleft sentences ( It was in June we got married .) gramática inglés en "English Grammar Today" - Cambridge University Press


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## gengo

Rodal said:


> Gengo, I know you are a native however I believe this should be: "it's not a vacation what I need",  which is the same as saying It's not a vacation on the beach *what* I need.  (no es vacaciones lo que necesito).



I can see how this would be confusing to NSSs, but you are incorrect here.  "It's not a vacation what I need" is wrong in English (although acceptable in some British dialects, it is always considered non-standard).  An American would never say that.  See post #4 for the correct variations.


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## anahiseri

atención hispanoparlantes:
lo de *what = lo que *tiene muchas excepciones, por ejemplo "todo lo que"   es "all that".

"what" sustituye a un  pronombre relativo con su antecedente:

This is *what* I like  = This is* the object which* I like.
*What* I want is peace = *The situation that *I want is peace.
En el ejemplo de este hilo, 
*What *I need is holidays = *The thing that* I need is holidays
 PERO It's a holiday *that *I need,  NO it's a holiday what I need  porque no puedes sustituir el "what" como antes; sería una duplicación del "it" con el que empieza la frase.


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## Rodal

anahiseri said:


> atención hispanoparlantes:
> lo de *what = lo que *tiene muchas excepciones, por ejemplo "todo lo que"   es "all that".
> 
> "what" sustituye a un  pronombre relativo con su antecedente:
> 
> This is *what* I like  = This is* the object which* I like.
> *What* I want is peace = *The situation that *I want is peace.
> En el ejemplo de este hilo,
> *What *I need is holidays = *The thing that* I need is holidays
> PERO It's a holiday *that *I need,  NO it's a holiday what I need  porque no puedes sustituir el "what" como antes; sería una duplicación del "it" con el que empieza la frase.



Ahora logro entenderlo bien.

Gracias


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## anahiseri

Rodal said:


> That versus What
> 
> 'That' replaces 'who' or 'which' most of the time.
> 'The dog that lives next door doesn't bite' = 'The dog which lives next door doesn't bite'.
> 
> 'What' replaces 'the thing' or 'the things'.
> 'Do what I say, not what I do' = 'Do the things I say and not the things I do'.
> "It's a vacation *what* I need = A vacation is the thing I need.


Strictly speaking, 'What' replaces 'the thing *that / which*' or 'the things *that / which*'., although the relative pronoun may be omitted in sentences like the example, when it is not the subject of the relative clause.


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## Cerros de Úbeda

anahiseri said:


> atención hispanoparlantes:
> lo de *what = lo que *tiene *muchas*  excepciones, por ejemplo "todo lo que"   es "all that".



Una, no es muchas... Yo sólo conozco esa...;

'All / Everything that...' = 'Todo lo que'




anahiseri said:


> En el ejemplo de este hilo,
> 
> It's a holiday *that *I need, NO it's a holiday what I need  porque no puedes sustituir el "what" como antes.



Whaaaat...!!? What about?;

'It is a holiday *the thingy that* I need.'


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## Bevj

Cerros de Úbeda said:


> 'It is a holiday *the thingy that* I need.'




Lo siento pero nadie no diría esto.


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## SevenDays

Quiendijo said:


> Hola
> 
> No estoy segura de usar 'that' o 'what' en esta frase.
> 
> No son unas vacaciones en la playa lo que necesito, sólo unos días tranquilos en el fondo de mi casa.
> 
> It's not holidays on the beach what (that) I need, just some calm days in the back garden of my house.
> 
> Gracias



Concentrémonos en el inglés, y, para bien or para mal, tenemos que hablar de sintaxis.

Aquí hay una _transformación sintáctica. _El propósito de esta transformación, que lleva el nombre de "extraposition", es dejar al principio el foco del mensaje ("it's not holidays ..."). Entonces, para ver lo que pasa, pongámos la oración en su orden original, dándola vuelta (lo que elimina el "dummy it"):

_It's not holidays on the beach that I need  --- >
that I need is not holidays on the beach._

Así queda claro que algo falta, que algo se ha omitido: el antecedente del pronombre relativo* "that". Este antecedente es _the thing_, el cual comúnmente se omite cuando hay extraposition:

_The thing that I need is not holidays on the beach ---->_
con extraposition y dummy it:
_It's not holidays on the beach (the thing) that I need._

Verás que "what" no admite el antecedente "the thing", con o sin "extraposition, pues este "what" no es un pronombre relativo:

_The thing what I need is not holidays on the beach_ 
_It's not holidays on the beach the thing what I need _

En realidad, este "what" introduce un _complement clause _en función de sujeto, y es por esto que la frase

_What I need is not holidays on the beach_

es gramatical, ya que "What I need" queda en su función de sujeto, mientras que

_It's not holidays on the beach what I need_

con "extraposition" ya no es (en general) aceptable pues "What I need" ya no aparece en la función sintáctia que le corresponde, la de "sujeto".

* Esto ya es otro tema, pero el término "pronombre relativo" no es precisamente adecuado para "that", aunque es de uso general.


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## The Newt

SevenDays said:


> [...]
> 
> _It's not holidays on the beach what I need_
> 
> con "extraposition" ya no es (en general) aceptable pues "What I need" ya no aparece en la función sintáctia que le corresponde, la de "sujeto".
> 
> [...]



To complicate matters further, we can use "what" after a comma:

_It's not holidays on the beach, what I need.  (= What I need isn't holidays on the beach.)

It's not holidays on the beach what I need._


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## anahiseri

Newt, I don't understand how the (unnecessary) comma can turn a wrong sentence into a correct one WITHOUT CHANGING THE MEANING.


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## The Newt

anahiseri said:


> Newt, I don't understand how the (unnecessary) comma can turn a wrong sentence into a correct one WITHOUT CHANGING THE MEANING.



The same way that we can with the following:

He's not hungry, my brother. 
He's not hungry my brother. 

The words after the comma define or clarify who the "he" is that I'm talking about. But this is only possible if the two parts of the sentence are separated (indicated by the comma).


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## anahiseri

Ok, now I understand. You didn't explain that before, but just wrote a rephrasement that can be applied to both sentences.


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## SevenDays

The Newt said:


> To complicate matters further, we can use "what" after a comma:
> 
> _It's not holidays on the beach, what I need.  (= What I need isn't holidays on the beach.)
> 
> It's not holidays on the beach what I need._



Right, the comma in effect breaks the sentence in two, so that "what I need" no longer functions as "subject" in relation to the sentence as a whole.


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## Doraemon-

_That _introduce una subordinada que explica/especifica algo de un elemento de la frase: _las vacaciones que necesito/the holidays that I need_.
_What _introduce otra frase, de la cual es la primera la que forma una parte de esta: _son vacaciones, lo que necesito/it's holidays, what I need_.

Esto se suele hacer con "lo que", en castellano, aunque puede haber casos donde estas palabras aparezcan juntas en otra construcción. Lo que lo determina es la sintaxis, no la equivalencia con el uso/no uso del artículo "lo".


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## Jektor

The Newt said:


> All of the following are correct:
> 
> It's not holidays on the beach *that* I need...
> Holidays on the beach aren't *what* I need...
> *What* I need isn't holidays on the beach...
> 
> But in standard English you can't switch "that" and "what" in any of those examples.
> .


I agree.



Quiendijo said:


> It's not holidays on the beach _that_ I need - _what I do need though is_ just some calm days in the back garden of my house.
> .


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