# FR: impératif à la 1re personne du singulier et à la 3e personne



## mysteriouscreep

Officieusement, existe-t-il l'impératif personne première? (Je sais que cela n'est sûrement pas l'expression exacte française) Comme, quand on parle à soi-même? Comme, en anglais, dire "be cool" à soi-même […]... Alors, pourrait-on dire "sois cool" à soi-même?

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one.


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## Moon Palace

No, there is no imperative of the first person singular in French. We use the second person to speak to ourself, as if there was some distance between the two 'I' (and 'me', to whom I am talking).

[…]


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## Argyll

As Moon Palace said, we have no equivalent to the English 'let me (do...)', but an alternative to the second person is 'Il faut que je + subjunctive'.

I might tell myself 'Sois cool' (well?...) but I would certainly tell myself 'Il faut que je tonde l'herbe dans le jardin'.


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## Outsider

To command yourself (a rather metaphorical situation in itself), you would either have to say something like "I must...", as Argyll said, or pretend that you were speaking to someone else: "Stop being lazy!"


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## agueda

"Je me souviens de la date."
I'm trying to turn the above sentence into an imperative...

Would it be: "Que je m'en souvienne!"? I'm not sure where to place 'en' in that sentence...

What is the negation imperative of "Je me souviens de la date."?

Would it be "Que je ne m'en souvienne pas!"?
Again, I'm not sure where to put 'en' in that sentence...


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## hercules

it's very good


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## misstic

Hello  "en" is at the right place, but this is not an imperative but a "subjonctif présent" - subjonctive present. There's no imperative form with "I/je", because most people command other people, not themselves  

Impératif présent
souviens-toi => souviens-t'en !
souvenons-nous => souvenons-nous en !
souvenez-vous => souvenez-vous en !

Cordialement


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## marget

I think, in a sense, it's an indirect command using the present subjunctive, (Let me remember) just as "qu'il entre" would be. Of course, I could be mistaken.


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## misstic

You're right with your example "Qu'*il* entre *(!)*" , but there's no imperative for "I/je", so "*Q*ue *je* m'en souvienne *!*" is absolutely not correct as an _imperative_. I'd rather use this sentence like "Que je m'en souvienne *?!?*" in the case someone expects me to remember something and I think it is foolish to expect that from me.


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## agueda

Thanks to all!
I too thought that it was weird that I had to convert the sentence into an imperative, since it had a first-person singular subject, but then I had to follow my text book... ;-)


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## xsilentears

How do I convert a sentence with il/elle to the imperatif? Ex: Ils disent la verite. What form of the verb do I use?


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## anfrony

You'll notice that in English, it's pretty difficult to give an order in the third person, since the person isn't there to hear what you tell him or her to do. So there isn't a conjugation for the third person imperative in French. To give commands in the third person you switch to subjunctive and add "que" to the beginning of the sentence:

Qu'ils disent la vérité.
Qu'(il/elle) dise la vérité.


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## xsilentears

thank you! is that the same for when you use 'je'?


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## jann

Welcome, Xsilentears! 

No, it's not the same when you use "je."  Let me try to explain.

The imperative is a command form.  There are only three imperative conjugations, corresponding to the three situations where you can logically give an order to someone else:

1st person plural (you + a group of people):  _mangeons du gâteau !_ (let's eat cake!)
2nd person singular/informal (telling one person what to do): _mange du gâteau ! _(eat cake!)
2nd person plural (telling a group of people what to do), or formal: _mangez du gâteau !_ (eat cake!)

To find the imperative conjugations for a French verb, look it up in our conjugator. They are listed at the end.  e.g., dire

As Anfrony said, you can't command someone who isn't there to hear you.  This is why there is no such thing as the 3rd person imperative.  But if you are in a position to say what you expect other people to do for you, you could issue a statement about what some 3rd party who isn't present is supposed to do.  This is not an imperative.  In French, the form you use is called the _subjonctif du souhait_. --> _qu'ils mangent du gâteau ! _(let them eat cake!)

There is no such thing as a 1st person singular imperative either.  If you want to give yourself an order, you talk to yourself as if you were looking yourself in the mirror and addressing that person you see there, using the 2nd person informal imperative.  This is the same as English. For example, I could say to myself, "Jann, tell the truth!" = _Jann, dis la vérité !

_Does that help?


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## Coq

anfrony said:


> To give commands in the third person you switch to subjunctive and add "que" to the beginning of the sentence:


 
Un example: 
_Que la Force soit avec toi!_
May the Force be with you!
(the Force is indeed 3d person singular)

More elevated: 
_Pût-il se rendre compte de son erreur!_
[I wish] he could figure out his mistake!


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## Cyberia

The imperative in the third person doesn't exist. Using subjunctive is a rather different thing, maybe it could be useful to render a similar meaning if this third person is around, but it's not imperative: "Contrairement à d'autres langues, le francais ne connaît l'impèratif qu'a la deuxieme personne, au singulier et au pluriel, ainsi qu'à la première personne du pluriel". (Bescherelle, L'art de conjuguer.)


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## Maître Capello

Cyberia, the above answers never said that using the subjunctive _was_ the imperative… However, in French we do use the subjunctive to express commands in the 3rd person or indeed for all persons where no imperative exists.

The subjunctive can indeed also be used in the 1st person singular to express (self-)commands. See also FR: "Que" at the start of a sentence.


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## marget

misstic said:


> You're right with your example "Qu'*il* entre *(!)*" , but there's no imperative for "I/je", so "*Q*ue *je* m'en souvienne *!*" is absolutely not correct as an _imperative_. I'd rather use this sentence like "Que je m'en souvienne *?!?*" in the case someone expects me to remember something and I think it is foolish to expect that from me.


 

I still feel that it may be possible to express an indirect command even in the first person singular. In another thread, this position has been seconded. Please consult this and pay close attention to post #7.


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## Cyberia

Thank you so much for the feedback, it's very valuable. Is this the case for the expresion: "il faut que... "? Because I understand this to be the basic subjunctif in French.


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## timpeac

No - the subjunctive has many uses. Forming third person imperatives is just one of them and not connected with the "il faut que" usage.


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## jann

I think this is a semantic confusion, Marget.

No one in either of these threads is saying that it is impossible to issue a command to yourself in the 1st person singular (unusual, perhaps, but not impossible). They are just saying that when we do so, it uses a subjunctive construction, and that consequently it is not accurate to call it an "imperative."

The word "imperative" refers specifically to the _nous, tu_, and _vous_ direct command conjugations.


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## marget

Thank you, jann, for clarifying this issue. I was referring specifically to indirect commands, not to the imperative mood. I now understand misstic's position.


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## trench feature

I may have missed something because I simply don't understand the import of  jann's last comment.   It seems that misstic is  questioning the validity of a first person singular  command in saying that  "*Q*ue *je* m'en souvienne *!*" is absolutely not correct as an _imperative _ 


I don't see that marget disagreed here.

I am not certain that marget ever referred to it as an imperative per se.  My impression is that she identified it as an indirect command.  That makes a difference, doesn't it?


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## TitTornade

Hello,
For my part, when I want to remember something, I don't say to myself : "Que je m'en souvienne". Else I wouldn't understand... myself  

In this case, I (would) really use _impératif_, "Allons ! Souvenons-nous-en !" : first person plural.
Since I speak to myself, I may consider that "I + myself" is a plural...


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## itka

In French schools, when we learn "impératif" we are taught that in the 1st person singular, in the 3rd persons singular and plural, it has to be replaced by a wish, expressed by the subjunctive :
_"Que je sois élu !" _said the President.
_"Ils veulent venir ? - Qu'ils viennent !"
"Que la lumière soit !"_


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## drewfstr314

Bonjour à tous!

En école, on a appris qu'on peut utiliser l'impératif seulement avec des sujets "tu", "nous", et "vous". Est-ce qu'on peut l'utiliser pour "je" et "on"? Par exemple, si je devais faire mes devoirs, puis-je dire à moi-même "fais-les" et est-ce que j'utiliserais la forme "tu" (puisqu'on omet le "s" en verbes -er et les formes sont mêmes)? Et aussi, au lieu de "allons!", peut-on dire "va", et quelle forme utiliserait-on?

Merci en avance!


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## janpol

Tu peux effectivement te donner des ordres comme  si tu étais une autre personne qui, dans ce cas, est "tu". Non, on ne peut pas sortir des "tu, nous et vous" sauf en sortant de l'impératif : il faut que je fasse mes devoirs"


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## Michelvar

drewfstr314 said:


> Est-ce qu'on peut l'utiliser pour "je" ...... puis-je dire à moi-même  "fais-les"


Oui



drewfstr314 said:


> est-ce que j'utiliserais la forme "tu"


On peut en effet se donner un ordre à sois-même. Dans ce cas là on se considère comme une autre personne, et on a plusieurs possibilités : 

Utiliser la forme en "tu", on se tutoie : (Michel,) fais tes devoirs! 
Se vouvoyer sois même, en utilisant la forme en vous : (Michel,) faites vos devoirs!   After all, do you really know yourself enough to allow yourself to be on first name terms  ?. 
Utiliser le "nous de majesté" (the royal we) : (Michel,) faisons nos devoirs!   After all, I'm the King of Myself ! 
La plupart du temps, les formes en "nous" et "vous" sont utilisée pour plaisanter, pour faire un léger effet comique. La forme la plus courante est bien celle en "tu".
To use those constructions, especially the one with "vous", it's better to put your name first, so that  everyone understands that you are talking to yourself, which is not  obvious.



drewfstr314 said:


> Est-ce qu'on peut l'utiliser pour ... "on"?


Seulement lorsque "on" représente quelqu'un de précis : 

si "on", c'est "nous"  (on doit faire nos devoirs = nous devons faire nos devoirs), alors on utilisera la forme en nous. On doit faire nos devoirs : Allons faire nos devoirs! 
si "on", c'est "quelqu'un" (on va bien devoir faire ces devoirs à un moment / someone will have to do this homework eventually), alors on ne peux pas utiliser l'impératif, puisqu'on ne sait pas à qui s'adresser. 
But in the second case, there is a way to do it. The way is to transform the "someone" into a real person, then you can adress him with "tu" : 
Someone will have to do this homework, eventually. Hey, "someone", do your homeworlk! 
On doit faire ces devoirs. Hé, "on", fais tes devoirs!
Again, this construction would be more for the fun.




drewfstr314 said:


> Et aussi, au lieu  de "allons!", peut-on dire "va", et quelle forme utiliserait-on?


Non, "allons" est la forme utilisée pour "nous", et "va" est la forme utilisée pour "tu". On ne peut pas les utiliser dans le même contexte.
I want to say that me, my sister and my brother, we have to go together to the kitchen : "Allons dans la cuisine!"
I want to tell my brother to go alone to the kitchen : "Va dans la cuisine!"


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