# Screwy English spelling



## onobloodo

Hello all, 
I need help with a list of 10 English words for which you think the spelling is screwy...

Thank you for your time helping me.


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## HelloFrench

dilemna
vacuum
sandwich
colonel
island
breakfast

I dont know if this is exactly what you want but i tried. sorry


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## Sharon

The combination "ough" can be pronounced in nine different ways. This  sentence contains them all: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed."



onomatopoeia
hirsute

Sharon.


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## fetchezlavache

Sharon said:
			
		

> The combination "ough" can be pronounced in nine different ways. This  sentence contains them all: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed."
> 
> 
> 
> onomatopoeia
> hirsute
> 
> Sharon.



thank you sharon, this is a most interesting phrase ! i'll check the pronunciation of 'slough' i think i got it wrong !


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## timpeac

Lieutenant - "loo tenant" for the Yanks but "leff tenant" for the Brits!


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## Focalist

Sharon said:
			
		

> The combination "ough" can be pronounced in nine different ways. This  sentence contains them all: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed."


What pronunciation do you have for "slough", Sharon? In BrE it rhymes with the "plough" of "ploughman" ... but not with the "lough" of "the waters of the lough", which is yet another pronunciation of "-ough" 

F


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## kenny74

I always think it's hard to be Worcester(pronounced wooster)


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## Sharon

My dictionary has the pronunciation of "slough" as "sluf"  I don't know the name of this prunciation symbol  but there is a tiny little u shape above the 'u' .  The dictionary gives the pronunciation of this as the sound in: couple, trouble, income, and blood. (That would be the same sound as "rough," though.  )

We would pronounce the "plough" as "plow" or "how" or "now." 

 My dictionary also notes that the letter x spells six sounds in English:
ks, as in box, or exit
gz, as in exact, or exist
sh, as in anxious
gzh, as in luxurious, or luxury
ksh (a variant of gzh), also gives example luxurious, or luxury.
z, as in anxiety

Sharon.


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## Focalist

Sharon said:
			
		

> My dictionary has the pronunciation of "slough" as "sluf"


Thanks, Sharon. That would make it rhyme with "rough", though (<< look out: it's that -ough again! ).

Slough is a town in England. This passage from Bunyan's _Pilgrim's Progress_:


> *The Slough of Despond*
> Now I saw in my dream that, just as they had ended this talk, they drew near to a very miry slough that was in the midst of the plain; and they being heedless, did both fall suddenly into the bog.


 is, perhaps understandably, not very popular in the town. "How now, brown Slough?"

F


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## jacinta

I've always had problems with these words.  (Don't know why, I just never learned, I guess  ):

License (Is it s, then c or c, then s? I had to look it up!!)
conscience
concious
conscientiously


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## vachecow

Knight, wright, phone, Wednesday


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## VenusEnvy

Necessary

Sounds trite, but I lost a spelling bee due to that silly word!


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## DesertCat

I had always thought slough was pronounced slew (to rhyme with stew). 

Looking it up (American Heritage)...
slough (or seven slew) is the one related to water (swamp, etc).
slough (sluf) is the one related to shedding dead skin, etc.  <-- I forgot about this one


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## lsp

Pneumonia and Psychic, Judgment, Definitely and Weird (what happened to "i before e except after c, and when sounding like ay as in neighbor and weigh"?!)


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## Artrella

You won't believe what words are still confusing me!!   PEN and PENCIL   I always forget which is what.  

And the historic and historical, economic and economical


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## vachecow

I think if I had to generalize the words that I have trouble with I would say they all fall under a few categories
1) they contain silent letters  (knife not necessarily that word, but its an example)
2)  they don't follow the _i before e_ rule  (weird)
3)  they aren't spelled like they are pronounced  (Wednesday)
...............and I think that that is it for me.......


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## Nick

1) I think another problem deals with commonly confused words. For example, advise/advice, united/untied. It is harder to choose the correct spelling when both combinations of letters actually spell a word.

2) "awkward" is hard for me to spell.


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## jacinta

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Necessary
> 
> Sounds trite, but I lost a spelling bee due to that silly word!



No! Not trite.  I still have trouble with necessary.  Those c's and s'es!


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## onobloodo

Thank you all! you guys all rocks.

Hellofrench, Sharon, fetchezlavache, timpeac, focalist, kenny74, Jacinta, vachecow121, venusenvy, desertcat, lsp, artrella, nick


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## timpeac

Focalist said:
			
		

> Thanks, Sharon. That would make it rhyme with "rough", though (<< look out: it's that -ough again! ).
> 
> Slough is a town in England. This passage from Bunyan's _Pilgrim's Progress_:
> is, perhaps understandably, not very popular in the town. "How now, brown Slough?"
> 
> F


 
The poem I remember most about Slough (although I can't remember the author) starts "come fair bombs and fall on Slough, it isn't fit for humans now".

I think that gives you a taster of how the town is generally viewed....


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## Sharon

Venus Envy, I lost my spelling bee due to *jeopardy.*  

 Art, try telling yourself that *Pencil*= *PEN*, '*C*ept *I*t's *L*ead.   

Sharon.


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## sallyjoe

Here are some words that I think are screwy;

thouroughly
paediatrics
pharmacy
physical
pyschology
knight
claustrophobia



			
				onobloodo said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> I need help with a list of 10 English words for which you think the spelling is screwy...
> 
> Thank you for your time helping me.


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## Lora

Isn't it th*o*roughly?

Necessary - this might sound stupid, but I remember learning to spell that word at school and this is how I remember it:

A shirt has one *c*ollar and two *s*leeves.... ne*c*e*ss*ary

Sometimes I get confused with 'occasion' and words like 'independent' - sometimes I put 'independ*a*nt'.

English certainly has some peculiar (I went to write 'perculiar' then hehe) spellings and silent letters are probably the trickiest part.


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## Lora

I have found this website, which may or may not be of interest to you, which has commonly misspelt English words.

http://www.world-english.org/misspell.htm 

Hope that helps.


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## Lora

Infact, I've just found this website, which might prove even more useful for you, as it has a small description to explain why the word is difficult to spell, and suggests way to help you remember:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/misspelled.html

^ That website has some interesting ideas on the spelling of 'judgment'

'judgement' versus 'judgment'

Oooh haha it's also American English I think - maneuver is the American English spelling I believe, while we stick with the French - manoeuvre.




I'll be quiet now


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## Edwin

I heard somewhere that due to the irregularity of spelling of English words, the complexity of learning to write English is the same as learning to write Chinese.  

And thinking of this makes me wonder why people are saying (in another thread) that English is the easiest language to learn.


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## Lora

I think that English is the hardest language to learn *if* you learn it in terms of absolutely 'correct' grammar.

The thing about English is that you can get away with quite 'poor' grammar and still be understood. However that doesn't change the fact that it still has possibly the most irregular verbs of any language - ask most natives whether the past participle of 'learn' is 'learnt' or 'learned' and they'd probably have to think about it for a minute or two (I know I've tried) and verbs like 'to drink'
- I have drank?
- I have drunk?
- I drunk?
- I drank?

Irregular spellings and rules such as 'i before e except after c' which have loads of exceptions also make English a hard language to learn.

So it surprised me to find that most foreign people I asked found it a relatively easy language to learn.
But I think that there are probably a lot of factors that make English an easier second language to learn - such as the fact that in England we're not taught languages at a young enough age (well in my opinion)
Also the fact that a lot of English people (apologies for generalising here) don't really understand the grammar of the language that well - it's true, I don't really know that much of it myself, I've mostly learnt through learning other languages. The grammar thing makes learning other languages much harder.


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## sallyjoe

I agree with you Edwin.  English is difficult to learn because of the rules that there is and when you think there is a rule to something, there isn't.  This confuses a lot of people.  For example words that are spelt different to how they sound like *knight.*  They are rules for *regular verbs* where you *add ed* and but then *irregular verbs* you *don't add ed* but change the spelling.  Learners then have to memorise these.  






			
				Edwin said:
			
		

> I heard somewhere that due to the irregularity of spelling of English words, the complexity of learning to write English is the same as learning to write Chinese.
> 
> And thinking of this makes me wonder why people are saying (in another thread) that English is the easiest language to learn.


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## Edwin

Readers of this thread may like to join the Simplified Spelling Society (SSS):

http://www.spellingsociety.org/

They discuss the question: Wy chanje English spelling? The next conference of the society is in Mannheim, Germany. 29-31 July 2005.

Here's a sample of the way they would write (taken from the above website). To see it you need to click on the link near the top of the above page:



> This paje is ritten in a sujested SSS house stile, chozen by sosiety ballot. Publishd titels, quotations and names, shown in italics, stay in TS (tradspel). Hovver over eech HS sentense to see it in TS.


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## Lora

Wow that's really bizarre.
Despite it being so crazy, I like the English spelling system.


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## Edwin

Lora said:
			
		

> Wow that's really bizarre.
> Despite it being so crazy, I like the English spelling system.



I didn't realize it had a system.  The spelling of English seems rather systemless.  That's what makes spelling bees such sporting contests.  I wonder what other languages have spelling bees?


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## Jana337

> Readers of this thread may like to join the Simplified Spelling Society (SSS):
> 
> http://www.spellingsociety.org/



 The spelling society has a mistake in the spelling 

Their website's heading reads "SIMPLFIED spelling society". The mistake is not repeated elsewhere.
Nobody's perfect...

Jana


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## Lora

Edwin said:
			
		

> I didn't realize it had a system.  The spelling of English seems rather systemless. That's what makes spelling bees such sporting contests. I wonder what other languages have spelling bees?


 
Hehe yeah it's random...
..oh well, languages would be boring if they always followed the rules, would they not?


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## fetchezlavache

what is a spelling bee please ?


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## timpeac

concours d'orthographe, particularly popular in the US.

I don´t know why "bee" though.


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## fetchezlavache

thanks !  

one word i like : subpoena.


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## Edwin

timpeac said:
			
		

> concours d'orthographe, particularly popular in the US.
> 
> I don´t know why "bee" though.



I cannot find the origin of bee used in this sense. Searching for the etymology I found only this:




> *What is the origin of the term spelling bee?*​
> The word bee, as used in spelling bee, is a language puzzle that has never been satisfactorily accounted for. A fairly old and widely-used word, *it refers to a community social gathering at which friends and neighbors join together in a single activity * (sewing, quilting, barn raising, etc.), usually to help one person or family. The earliest known example in print is a spinning bee, in 1769. Other early occurrences are husking bee (1816), apple bee (1827), and logging bee (1836). Spelling bee is apparently an American term. It first appeared in print in 1875, but it seems certain that the word was used orally for several years before that.
> 
> Those who used the word, including most early students of language, assumed that it was the same word as referred to the insect. They thought that this particular meaning had probably been inspired by the obvious similarity between these human gatherings and the industrious, social nature of a beehive. But in recent years scholars have rejected this explanation, suggesting instead that this bee is a completely different word. One possibility is that it comes from the Middle English word bene, which means "a prayer" or "a favor" (and is related to the more familiar word boon). In England, a dialectal form of this word, been or bean, referred to "voluntary help given by neighbors toward the accomplishment of a particular task." (Webster's Third New International Dictionary). Bee may simply be a shortened form of been, but no one is entirely certain.
> 
> A Dictionary of American English. Sir William A. Craigie and James R. Hulbert, eds. University of Chicago Press, 1944.
> A Dictionary of Americanisms. Mitford M. Mathews, ed. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1951.
> Mencken, H.L. The American Language. New York: Alfred Knopf, 1938 (suppl. I, 1945: suppl. II, 1948).


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## vachecow

Edwin said:
			
		

> I heard somewhere that due to the irregularity of spelling of English words, the complexity of learning to write English is the same as learning to write Chinese.


Uh oh....I wanted to learn Chinese....oh well, I'll still give it a shot


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## lsp

Edwin said:
			
		

> And thinking of this makes me wonder why people are saying (in another thread) that English is the easiest language to learn.


Maybe easier to learn to _speak_, but certainly not to spell...laugh, taught, cough, bough, though... more exceptions than rules!


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## vachecow

I once knew an english teacher who said for every rule there were at least 10 exceptions.


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## Edwin

vachecow121 said:
			
		

> I once knew an english teacher who said for every rule there were at least 10 exceptions.



I guess that's why they say, ''*the exception makes the rule*''.  
This statement has always annoyed me. I guess it is just a smart way of saying that it wouldn't be a rule if it didn't have exceptions.  If anyone has a better interpretation, please let me know.


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## CarolinaL

This is the pronunciation for spanish people (in a very simple manner)

"A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed."

A raf-couted dou-faced zotful plauman strode thru the streets of scarboro, after falling into a slao, he cof and hicapd.


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## CarolinaL

Edwin said:
			
		

> I heard somewhere that due to the irregularity of spelling of English words, the complexity of learning to write English is the same as learning to write Chinese.
> 
> And thinking of this makes me wonder why people are saying (in another thread) that English is the easiest language to learn.


 
That's because ignorance is bold... and in our case, as fond English learners,  the more we learn the less we think we know... That's the way it goes!


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## vachecow

Although I think that it is true, at least regarding the English language


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## Special K

onobloodo said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> I need help with a list of 10 English words for which you think the spelling is screwy...
> 
> Thank you for your time helping me.


 
knife
gnu
calliope
I want to eat two too!

English is screwy because it's a combination of Greek, Latin, Germanic tongues, French, and "inkhorn" terms that educated people just made up hundreds of years ago.


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## jacinta

Special K said:
			
		

> knife
> gnu
> *calliope*
> I want to eat two too!




Wow.  Now there's a strange word!  I had to look this up because at first glance, I said " Cally-ope...what's a cally-ope!!?"
I've never known the spelling of calliope!  or heard the word since I was a kid   .

Thanks, Special!  Now I will now how to spell it if the need arises.


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## Lora

I thought of a few more words today, they might have already been mentioned:
- parliament
- government
- environment


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## cuchuflete

I've only read three pages of this thread, so apologies in advance if this has already been presented.  G.B. Shaw, a master of English, wrote that it is an insane language.  He gave the example of the [invented] word *ghot* which may be pronounced *fish!*.  

Let's try it:

Gh, as if rough or tough
o, as in women
t, as in taxation or vexatious.

Hence, fish!!!!

If I've got any of this wrong, I'm sure Focalist will straighten it out promptly.

regards,
Cuchu


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## webtrek

What about these ...

seargent / 'sargent'

isle / 'ile'

island / 'iland'

listen / 'lissen'

fasten / 'fassen'

half / 'harf'

calm /'carm'

thoroughly /'thoroly'

throughout /'throo -out'/

and places:

Tucson / 'too-san'
Connecticut / 'conneticut'
Leicester / 'lester'

almond /'armond'/

And my fav

Worcestershire /'woonstashire'

Have fun ;-)

webtrek


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## charlie2

vachecow121 said:
			
		

> Uh oh....I wanted to learn Chinese....oh well, I'll still give it a shot


I can write Chinese. I thought I was a pretty good speller in English too, that is, until I started to learn French.
e.g.
toilette/toilet
developpement/ development
sujet/subject
objet/object
Words like these are killing me.


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## timpeac

charlie2 said:
			
		

> I can write Chinese. I thought I was a pretty good speller in English too, that is, until I started to learn French.
> e.g.
> toilette/toilet
> developpement/ development
> sujet/subject
> objet/object
> Words like these are killing me.


 
I can understand why you might have trouble with the first two, but why subject and object? They are pronounced differently (and like they´re spelt) in the two languages.


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## webtrek

Do not worry too much about writing them all well. Native speakers can mispell words too. What matters more is making the right sounds. But when you come to think i could not say a chinese word using the right pitch...this is a huge problem, isn't it  ;-) 

webtrek


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## mjscott

phlegm is the nastiest word on my books!


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## charlie2

timpeac said:
			
		

> I can understand why you might have trouble with the first two, but why subject and object? They are pronounced differently (and like they´re spelt) in the two languages.


It is the "b" that's absent in "sujet" that bothers me. Now I have dwelled on this point, I think I can get this right in the future.


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## vachecow

mjscott said:
			
		

> phlegm is the nastiest word on my books!


.....in spelling AND meaning


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## salma07

jacinta said:
			
		

> I've always had problems with these words. (Don't know why, I just never learned, I guess  ):
> 
> License (Is it s, then c or c, then s? I had to look it up!!)
> conscience
> concious
> conscientiously


 
Well, i find license pretty easy to spell but i definitely agree with you that the next three are difficult to spell.Oh, and it is spelt 'conscious',which just about demonstrates how hard this word is to spell!
Abscess is another diffcult one! (Please correct spelling if it is not right)


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## jess oh seven

i think it depends on your accent if you have difficulty spelling certain words... like not saying Rs and things could throw you.

*occasionally* - i can never remember if it has two Cs or two Ss.
*bureaucratic* - i'm not sure if i even spelled it correctly there

but of course there are words in English which don't make any sense, like "enough" = enuff, whereas "sought" = saut... why not saufft??


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## AnnieF

jacinta said:
			
		

> I've always had problems with these words. (Don't know why, I just never learned, I guess  ):
> 
> License (Is it s, then c or c, then s? I had to look it up!!)
> conscience
> concious
> conscientiously


 
Hi Jacinta!

In BE, licence is a noun (e.g. a driving licence - a document that shows the holder is qualified to drive), and license is a verb used to describe the granting of a licence (e.g. licensed premises - a place that has a licence to sell alcohol). but I don't think there's any difference in pronunciation.


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## AnnieF

timpeac said:
			
		

> The poem I remember most about Slough (although I can't remember the author) starts "come fair bombs and fall on Slough, it isn't fit for humans now".
> 
> I think that gives you a taster of how the town is generally viewed....


 
Hi Timpeac

It was John Betjeman, and it reads
_Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough_
_It isn't fit for humans now_
_There is not grass to feed a cow_
_Swarm over, death!_ 

He wrote it in the late 1930s in protest at the fact that a new town and industrial estate had been built on what was previously a rural area. The need to preserve our green belt was obviously not uppermost in their minds! 

I'm not allowed to put a url in here, but wikipedia has lots of information on Slough!

P.S. - It's actually not that bad a place to live ... I've experienced far worse! It's the home of Horlicks and Mars Bars - and did you know that Thunderbirds was filmed here?!


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## timpeac

AnnieF said:
			
		

> Hi Timpeac
> 
> It was John Betjeman, and it reads
> _Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough_
> _It isn't fit for humans now_
> _There is not grass to feed a cow_
> _Swarm over, death!_
> 
> He wrote it in the late 1930s in protest at the fact that a new town and industrial estate had been built on what was previously a rural area. The need to preserve our green belt was obviously not uppermost in their minds!
> 
> I'm not allowed to put a url in here, but wikipedia has lots of information on Slough!
> 
> P.S. - It's actually not that bad a place to live ... I've experienced far worse! It's the home of Horlicks and Mars Bars - and did you know that Thunderbirds was filmed here?!


 
And most recently famous for "the office", presumably filmed on the very industrial estate the poem is about?

No offence meant - I have nothing against the place - I don't know it well - I think that it just has a bit of a reputation as a typical satellite town of London, with not a huge amount to recommend it - I'm not saying that, just the image it has. You could say the same about say Surbiton. I'd better stop before I offend anyone else...


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## Inara

Edwin said:
			
		

> Readers of this thread may like to join the Simplified Spelling Society (SSS):
> 
> http://www.spellingsociety.org/
> 
> They discuss the question: Wy chanje English spelling? The next conference of the society is in Mannheim, Germany. 29-31 July 2005.
> 
> Here's a sample of the way they would write (taken from the above website). To see it you need to click on the link near the top of the above page:


 
What a horrible *society*(another difficult word to spell)!!!
You know why English is considered easy language to learn? Because you have to learn everything by *heart *(another one) and that is the easiest way!
BTW, if that society gets any further than just discussing, it will have to translate all the literature written till now, so that newly scholarised (???) children would learn the "correct" spelling. Too costy a thing, I guess. 
So I hope they will never *succeed*(another one)


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## Cagey

I am closing this thread. We no longer permit requests for lists.  

However, you may find it interesting.  

Cagey, moderator.


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