# to palm off



## non rien!

Hello

I am looking for a translation of this expression please. In English it has two meanings.

1) "I got invited to the party tonight but I think that I am going to palm it off" (I got invited but I think that I am not going to go anymore). This is a familiar expression.


2) "I had all this work to do in the office, there was so much, but I couldn't be bothered, so I palmed it all off onto someone else" (I didn't want to do the work so I gave it all to someone else)


How would you translate these please Francophones?

 Thanks, Karlotti


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## coursic

1) Je suis invité à cette soirée, mais je vais décliner l'invitation
2) ... alors je l'ai passé à quelqu'un d'autre


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## Fabrice26

1) ?
2) je l'ai refilé (ou refourgué) à quelqu'un d'autre
Hope it heps...


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## Cath.S.

2) _Je l'ai refilé à quelqu'un d'autre_.
_Refiler _est très familier et implique que l'on se débarrasse d'une chose dénuée de valeur, que l'on s'en décharge auprès de quelqu'un.
_J'irai avec toi acheter cette veste ; si tu y vas seul, tu vas encore te laisser refiler n'importe quoi par le vendeur._

Pour le premier, je n'ai pas d'idée.


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## non rien!

Thanks guys!

Shame that you could think of one for the first one but thanks for trying.

"I got invited to the party tonight but I think that I am going to palm it off" . This is a familiar expression.

What I mean here is that the person that got invited is simply not going to because he can't be bothered, ...maybe an expression like 'laisser tomber'? Décliner sounds good but sounds a little formal?

Thanks for your efforts.


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## Reliure

You may say : Je pense que je vais faire l'impasse sur cette soirée.


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## Fabrice26

or even "je crois que je vais la zapper"


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## Nicomon

Salut,

J'aurais aussi suggéré _refiler_ au numéro 2.

Pour la première définition, il me vient : 
_Je vais me déguiser en courant d'air _(mais on le dit plutôt lorsqu'on s'éclipse en douce) _/ me déclarer absent_


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## akaAJ

I have never heard "palm it off" used in USE for meaning #1; it's always been "palm it off on _someone_".  On the other hand, "blow it off" is fairly common in USE in sense #1.


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## eno2

Indeed, OED confirms it's always 'palm something off on someone' and sentence 2 is of that structure.



> *palm something off*
> 
> *PHRASAL VERB*
> 
> Sell or dispose of something by misrepresentation or fraud.



palm something off | Definition of palm something off in English by Oxford Dictionaries
My difficulty is with the French translation of ''palm something off on someone' .

The best I can find that corresponds a bit with OED seems [faire avaler (qqch. à qqn.)]
(VanDale English-French)

<Certainly, venture capitalists and investment bankers make money from IPOs, and they can be used to palm off lousy securities to the public.  source: www.frase.it>

Could translate as:

Certes, les investisseurs en capital-risque et les banquiers d’investissement gagnent de l’argent grâce aux introductions en bourse, et ils peuvent être utilisés pour vendre des titres moche au public.

But 'Vendre' is very neutral. Pourrait-on utiliser faire avaler' ici? Je crois que si.


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## Itisi

I have never heard 'palm off' in the first sense suggested by *non rien!*


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## Nicomon

@ eno2, who has reanimated this old thread.
Your source link doesn't work on my side, but I found the same sentence at the bottom of *this page*. 





> Among high-tech firms, the beneficiaries usually include employees far down in the hierarchy, who were granted stock options, often because the companies couldn't afford high salaries or generous benefits. *Certainly, venture capitalists and investment bankers make money from IPOs, and they can be used to palm off lousy securities to the public*. But at their best, IPOs are a Frank Capra movie, not Wall Street.


 While I understand what you're trying to say, I'm not sure how to fit in«_ faire avaler _» without completely rewriting the sentence.
But I think « _refiler_ » could work there too.  

He may never be back on line to reply, but I wonder if* non rien!*  could have meant what follows, for the *first *sense mentioned? 





> to give someone an explanation or excuse that is not true or is not satisfactory, but which you hope they will accept.


 Source : *palm off (phrasal verb) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary*


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## Dash318

1)  ... mais je crois que je vais sauter un tour.
2)  ... mais je vais la laisser au suivant.


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## joelooc

"fourguer" as suggested post#3


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## eno2

About sentence/meaning 1 in the OP: The thing is, from my researches,  I don't believe in


> 1) "I got invited to the party tonight but I think that I am going to palm it off" (I got invited but I think that I am not going to go anymore). This is a familiar expression.


and also many reject it here.



Nicomon said:


> Your source link doesn't work on my side,



Weird. palm something off | Definition of palm something off in English by Oxford Dictionaries



> While I understand what you're trying to say, I'm not sure how to fit in«_ faire avaler _» without completely rewriting the sentence.
> But I think « _refiler_ » could work there too.


Refiler: it could .


> *Wiktionary *refiler → palm some thing off on a person, flog



Though it doesn't have that special connotation with deceit.



> He may never be back on line to reply, but I wonder if no rien !  could have meant what follows, for the first sense mentioned?  Source : palm off (phrasal verb) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary



That's plain 'refiler'…But OED and my translation dictionary do not sustain that meaning. Palm off has or should have a strong connotation with deceit, it seems...


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## sound shift

Itisi said:


> I have never heard 'palm off' in the first sense suggested by *non rien!*


Ben ... Moi non plus!


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## eno2

Another one


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## Nicomon

@ eno2 :  I wrote "source link",  by that referring to the second one in your initial post... at the end of the quoted sentence.

Namely this that you wrote - coloring and bolding mine :


> <Certainly, venture capitalists and investment bankers make money from IPOs, and they can be used to palm off lousy securities to the public.
> *source: www.frase.it*>



I quoted definition #2 of the Macmillan dictionary (link provided)  which doesn't mean « _refiler_ » to me.
I thought *non rien!* may have meant that one (perhaps by extension) for his party invitation example.
As in :  _I'll give a false excuse for skipping the party, and hope they'll buy it, as I can't be bothered to go. _

I was actually asking, hence my writing  "I wonder if".  There is a similar definition in Oxford


> *palm somebody off (with something)*
> (informal) to persuade somebody to believe an excuse or an explanation that is not true, in order to stop them asking questions or complaining.


 I maintain that _refiler _works fine for your context.  You may want to read post #4 (Cath.S.) again.
_fourguer/refourguer_ are just more colloquial synonyms.

This is from Petit Robert : 





> *fourguer* - (1901) Fam. Vendre, placer (une mauvaise marchandise). *➙ refiler.* _« cette taule, j'allais la fourguer aussi vite que possible »._
> *refourguer* - Fam. Vendre, remettre à qqn en l'abusant. *➙ refiler*.
> *refiler* - Donner, remettre à qqn, en le trompant, en profitant de son inattention. _On lui a refilé une fausse pièce. On va lui refiler nos rossignols._ *➙ fourguer.*


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## Itisi

Nico, re: "to give someone an explanation or excuse that is not true or is not satisfactory, but which you hope they will accept."

To me, this is 'to fob someone off' with an explanation or excuse. It's not interchangeable with 'to palm off'.


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## Nicomon

Merci, Itisi.

Il faudrait en informer les rédacteurs des dicos cités, qui n'ont pas réussi à te « faire avaler » leurs définitions.  

_Palm off_ me fait aussi penser à « _repousser / rejeter du revers de la main_ ».  
C'est peut-être ça que *non rien!* voulait dire, pour le sens 1 ?


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## eno2

Nicomon said:


> @ eno2 :  I wrote "source link",  by that referring to the second one in your initial post... at the end of the quoted setence.



Improve Your Writing skills = fraze.it second sentence of the page.



Nicomon said:


> "_Palm off_ me fait aussi penser à « _*repousser / rejeter du revers de la main*_ ». C'est peut-être ça que *non rien!* voulait dire, pour le sens 1 ?



I read that too in OED under 'to palm', I think

NO! It's 'palm of'. Not 'Palm off'



> Palm of: with object and adverbial of direction (of a goalkeeper) deflect (the ball) with the palm of the hand.
> 
> _‘Jason palmed the ball out of danger’_


palm | Definition of palm in English by Oxford Dictionaries

That complicates the issue, because one could use 'palm of' figuratively. For 'declining'. As in sentence 1 of the OP.  Perhaps [non rien!] meant 'palm of'?
-----

My problem is with the (several) dictionaries only giving the strong meaning of 'palm off', with their connotation to deceit: how to  translate that   in French, conserving that connotation.

I didn't want to open a new thread for that, given this existing one.

But I'll have to learn and concede that the English use 'palm off' in the much watered down meaning of 'refiler' of sentence 2 in the opening post.

Looking for 'palm off' into Van Dale online English French (behind paywall):



> Phrasal verb
> palm off○: ▶ palm [sth] off, palm off [sth]
> faire passer qch (as pour);
> to palm sth off on sb,
> to palm sb off with sth
> *refiler○ qch à qn*


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## Nicomon

Thank you eno2.   I can see  *Time.com* at the end of that second sentence.

So... I assume the larger context that I quoted in post 12, with link *this page* is/was the right one. 

*Edit :*  I had not read the added part of your previous post (#21).


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## eno2

Nicomon said:


> But I think « _refiler_ » could work there too.



Perhaps not so straightforwardly. That would change the connotation/definition  of deceit of 'palm off' to the more neutral 'refiler'. You see, palm off is used in that sentence in relation to the public, a public that was misled. But those high tech companies also 'ont refilé' some IPO's to their own staff, but at least their staff was not directly deceived into buying them.

But I see 'refiler ' can have both meanings of 1 the more neutral to pass and 2  'Palm off'  with deceit:



> refiler○ /ʀ(ə)file/
> vtr to pass [vêtement, livre, notes, renseignement, maladie] (à qn onto sb);
> 
> to palm [sth] off [fausse monnaie] (à qn on sb);
> *on m'a refilé un faux billet
> someone palmed a forged note off on me*;
> il m'a refilé son rhume he gave me his cold


 VD online FR-Engl  Paywall

So yes, 'refiler' seems to be the solution.

But 'palm off' is worth a thread in English Only.


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## Nicomon

In a nutshell...  I think you and I don't define *refiler* (link to CNRTL - emphasis mine) the same way. 





> Donner, vendre quelque chose de défectueux ou d'incorrect à quelqu'un, *en le trompant délibérément sur la valeur de la marchandise* dont on veut se débarrasser.


 To me, that verb is *not *neutral, and does not simply mean "to pass (on)" _= transmettre_.

I give up trying to convince you, but if it was my decision to make, I'd say... _refiler_ or the more colloquial _(re)fourguer.  _
However the latter can refer to stolen goods_.  _Link to CNRTL : *fourguer*

*Edit :  *I once again had not read the added part of your previous post (#23).
I'm happy to see that we finally agree.


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## eno2

Those are all learning processes to me.



> refiler, fourguer une voiture à qqn.


  vendre trop cher (VD)
I can't help it that some authoritative dictionaries I consulted define 'palm off '  with only one meaning connected to deceit. I'm convinced now, 
refiler seems the best translation. But refiler has more...
Définitions : refiler - Dictionnaire de français Larousse


> Populaire. Donner quelque chose à quelqu'un, en particulier quelque chose de mauvais ou dont on fait peu de cas : Il m'a refilé un vieux pull.



CNRTL gives also 'donner'...


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## joelooc

I don't want to insist but "un fourgue" is "a fence" and "fourguer" definititely has this deceit connotation:
CNRTL: *Fourguer *_Arg._ Vendre illégalement à quelqu'un une marchandise volée ou de provenance douteuse ou *de mauvaise qualité*. 
CNRTL doesn't accept the entry _refourguer_
so "fourguer" illustrates the idea of giving someone something (unbeknownst to everybody) in the palm of one's hand like one tips a maitre d' to get a good table in a restaurant


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## Nicomon

@ joelooc : je n'ai pas cité l'entrée, mais j'avais déjà mis le lien vers cette même définition du CNRTL au post 24.
C'est pour ça que j'ai écrit "can refer to stolen goods".  Il y a aussi l'idée d'illégalité / recel.   

Et c'est parce que je ne l'ai pas trouvée dans le CNRTL que j'ai mis au post #18 la définition du Petit Robert de _*re*fourguer_.
C'est bien ça que Fabrice 26 a écrit au post 3  en 2009,  en plus de _refiler.
_
Voir aussi ce (court) fil  :* fourguer/refourguer*


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## joelooc

C'est bien pourquoi j'ai voulu insister pour préciser que fourguer ne consistait pas seulement à revendre à quelqu'un une marchandise dont le client est conscient qu'elle est volée (soyons clairs) mais aussi à rouler/tromper quelqu'un sur la qualité d'une marchandise légale mais dont on a du mal à se débarrasser.


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## Nicomon

Mon erreur.  Je pensais que mon "_can refer_" était assez clair et sous-entendait que ce n'est pas forcément le cas.

En clair, je préfère _refiler _et je suis d'accord avec ce que Cath a écrit au post 4, en 2009.
Mais ce n'est pas à moi de choisir.


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## Itisi

Itisi said:


> Nico, re: "to give someone an explanation or excuse that is not true or is not satisfactory, but which you hope they will accept."


Si, ça marche, mais c'est une construction différente, par exemple, 'They tried to palm_ me_ off _with_ some story about blabla', alors que l'autre est 'to palm something off on someone'.


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## eno2

Of course that works.

To palm off can be used  both ways, things or persons,  with the same meaning.

OED


> *Phrasal Verbs *palm someone off ...Persuade someone to accept something by deception <_most sellers are palmed off with a fraction of what something is worth’>_
> palm something off ...Sell or dispose of something by misrepresentation or fraud.
> <_‘unscrupulous businessmen may palm off their property to the buyers without proper papers’>_


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## Nicomon

Merci pour l'explication additionnelle,  Itisi.


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