# Blacks in Latin America



## jacinta

Hello;

I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries.  If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful.  Some questions I have:

What percentage of the population are they ?

Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?

Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?

Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.

Thank you in advance for your help.


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## Artrella

jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello;
> 
> I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries.  If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful.  Some questions I have:
> 
> What percentage of the population are they ?
> 
> Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
> 
> Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
> 
> Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.




Hi Jacinta!  Well here in Argentina, at least what I know, is that Black people were brought by the Spaniards and Portuguese people and were enslaved.
I do not know of any Black person that had a different life other than being slave in my country.  Nowadays there are not Blacks left because they were all sent to wars( La guerra del desierto, la guerra con Paraguay) and they were all killed on the battlefield as well as the indians.  As for prejudices, I would say that there is a kind of prejudice against them.  Not as strong as in US but we cannot know since we don't have these people around us.  But we have other people (as Bolivianos, Paraguayos, even people from the north of ARgentina) to whom some people address in a derogatory way.
I hope that this little contribution helps in your research, Art


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## Dale Dolores

I'm a Black American from the States, but lived in Costa Rica for a while. I didn't encounter any problems or see any racism.  What may be interesting for your project is the history of Blacks in Costa Rica.  They came from Jamaica in the 1940s to work on the CR railroad (that was destroyed a few years ago by a great earthquake).  Most Blacks in CR live in the Caribbean and speak English and or a dialect of English.  All of them speak Spanish, as well.  In CR, I found most of the racism to be towards the Chinese population.


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## dvquo

Hi! Here in Mexico Black people was brought by Spaniards. There were few amounts of slaves bought because in New Spain there were a lot of indigenous people. They enslaved them and forced them to work. Thus the racism towards Black people was not an issue, but towards indigenous people. Nowadays there's no racism against Black people, everythings fine with them. Mainly there's racism towards indigenous people. These are the questions

What percentage of the population are they ?
I cannot answer this question because Black people are not an issue. I have the percentage of the indigenous.

Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
No, all of them speak Spanish. 

Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
Very far away in time during the colonial period, but not so important in order to remain in the society after the independence and the multiple wars we had in the XIX century.


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## ABSURDO

Hi Jacinta. I am absurdo from Spain. Here, black population are gathered only in big cities such as Madrid and Barcelona. Despite Spain is very close to Africa, we dont have so much foreign people yet, especially, if you compared us with France or Great Britain. Racism in Spain?? As in other countries, focused most in arabian people and gypsies.
see


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## Dale Dolores

Hello, again.

I would also like to mention that social standing is more of an issue in Latin America and Spain than race.  As Absurdo mentioned, the gypsies are very marginalized in Spain. However, successful gypsies (flamenco dancers, singers, directors) are more welcome in society.  If you look at Latin America and Spain all of the fútbol players are praised and loved regardless of skin color.

Throughout my travels I have found that those who are said to be a "drain on society" are the most hated.  If you're doing well financially or have an education, you'll be better off.

This is what I have found! Others may have a different view!

joylolade


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## Tomasoria

Undoubtedly Brazil and Cuba are the countries where black population is important in number (also in Republica dominicana and some countries around central America: panama and Colombia). In countries like Peru, Venezuela and Ecuador there is small percentage...I don't know how many they are in these countries but in Brazil and Cuba they amount to 40-60% of population. In some places like Santiago de Cuba and Baia they are majority.

As you may know they play an important role in  music and sports, just to mention brazilian soccer players in Europe (they're all blacks), baseball players in Cuba, black musicians in both countries are the backbone of their national identities and cultures. But if you get down to earth...I mean if you look at the core of the black population you find out that is sth. similar to USA, black people are placed somehow on the bottom of the social pyramid. Upper white classes despise them and  black-white marriages are not common.

  In Cuba, however, colour discrimination is "officially" banned because of the communist doctrine of Castro's regime. You can see black people working as surgeons, engineers, lawyers, etc...but as far as I know there is just one black minister among the cuban governnment. White cubans don't trust black people...but then again racism has a lot to do with color nuance. In both countries you can find BLAcks as coal, Mulatos (cafe con leche as they call them), and white ones. A real nigger is more discriminated than a mulato...

   Saludos.


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## Dale Dolores

"Nigger"  is a _highly offensive_ word in the English speaking world.  You should really avoid using such language to avoid uncomfortable situations.


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## Artrella

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> A real nigger  is more discriminated than a mulato...
> 
> Saludos.




YES!!! we have noticed it!!!


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## EthanAG

Artrella said:
			
		

> As for prejudices, I would say that there is a kind of prejudice against them.  Not as strong as in US but we cannot know since we don't have these people around us.



OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states.   This isn't the 1950's, 98 % of USA believes all men are equal which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.


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## Artrella

EthanAG said:
			
		

> OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states.   This isn't the 1950's, 98 % of USA believes all men are equal which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.




No comments, Ethan!


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## Tomasoria

Sorry for using nigger, I thought it wasn't that offensive... Anyway, I just wanted to point out that differences in nuances are also important when it comes to discrimination in Brazil and Cuba.


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## ABSURDO

I apologised also....it has been an unpleasant situation. That word is higly offensive. it is like "n*gr*ta" in spanish.

Take care Tomasoria


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## David

EthanAG said:
			
		

> OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states.   This isn't the 1950's, 98 % of USA believes all men are equal which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.



Ethan is kidding, right? We have seen great progress since 1954, but "hardly any"?  What universe do you inhabit?


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## Tormenta

EthanAG said:
			
		

> OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states.   This isn't the 1950's, *98 % of USA believes all men are equal *which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.




You gotta be kidding me!

Tormenta


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## Tomasoria

ABSURDO said:
			
		

> I apologised also....it has been an unpleasant situation. That word is higly offensive. it is like "n*gr*ta" in spanish.
> 
> Take care Tomasoria



ok Absurdo, but I think we're all adults in this forum and as I said, I'm not racist at all, but sometimes we are all just limited by what is usually called "politically correct"...

  My only mistake was not to explain the xenophobic connotation of words like "nigger" and "sudaca"... I was just trying to place this word in the context we were talking about: Social behaviour of society regarding black people in South America...in some places they're treated just like "niggers" and not ordinary citizens.

  Once more, sorry If somebody felt offended...

   Absurdo, algunas veces nos la cogemos con papel de fumar...


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## ABSURDO

Lo siento si te ha sentado mal. No era mi intencion que sonara tan politicamente correcto. Eso solo pasa en EEUU, en Espanha gracias, podemos decir lo que queremos.


Me ha encantado lo del papel de fumar, a partir de ahora la usare.


UN saludo, y lo siento. Como espanhol que eres sabes perfectamente lo que pienso de lo politicamente correcto...........


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## Tomasoria

ABSURDO said:
			
		

> Lo siento si te ha sentado mal. No era mi intencion que sonara tan politicamente correcto. Eso solo pasa en EEUU, en Espanha gracias, podemos decir lo que queremos.
> 
> 
> Me ha encantado lo del papel de fumar, a partir de ahora la usare.
> 
> 
> UN saludo, y lo siento. Como espanhol que eres sabes perfectamente lo que pienso de lo politicamente correcto...........




Eso, como Españoles nos la suda lo politicamente correcto...Ayyy que alivio poder hablar así ¡¡¡

  Saludos vigués


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## ABSURDO

Gracias por no haberte enfadado pense que ahora me ibas a machacar a mensajes duros y punzantes.

Vigues solo de adopcion, supongo que tu seras de SORIA??


Sinceramente, como en Espanha con un poco de dinero, no se vive en ningun lado. estamos en el punto medio de todo, sol si pero no caribe, calor algo pero no te asas,violencia algo pero no como en USA, ta.tataatata.......



un saludo, espero tus commentarios en otros threads(hilos???)


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## Tomasoria

No Absurdo, vivo en Córdoba...

 that's true, Spain is a kind of Eden Garden...we're the mexicans of Europe...Sex, drugs and R&R are present here as if the world were about to finish...This country, even if we are more catholic than the Pope himself, is the seven wonder... 

   Why don't you Americans Foreros drop by here one day and see where shit and glory get together??

      Saludos from LatinEurope

      Tomás


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## leonardo956

Here in Mexico, Blacks were brought a long time ago, and there were very few. You can't find any Black people in Mexico because they are so mixed into our race. Us Mexicans are a mixed blooded people, and the little Black people that were brought to Mexico are just as mixed into us as the Spaniards, so you are very unlikely to find any Black people here. You will find from time to time someone who has some black features, or someone who's skin is black, but his face is very unlikely to have of the feature from the Blacks from the USA. 

Here in Mexico, it's not offensive to call someone Black, simply because, d-uh!What else are you going to that person? Most people in Mexico when they hear for the first time the big deal Americans make about it, just laugh and ask why is it offensive?


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## Carlos Oliva

Esto es lo que tengo de Guatemala, sobre la cultura de descendencia Africana. Espero que te ayude. Si quieres mas informacion, vete a www.prensalibre.com y busca por Viaje a Guatemala; (bajo ningun sentido de vista  estoy endorsando comercialmente este lugar)saludos...
 
Departamento de Izabal
La población negra caribeña más importante del departamento y la única en el país son los garínagu, más conocidos como garífuna. Este grupo étnico que recién cumplió doscientos años de vida centroamericana (1797-1997), de filiación lingüística caribe arawak; permite adentrarnos en una historia y cultura diferentes a la de los pueblos mayas. 
​
 

Los negros anglófonos, también conocidos como creoles, sin duda la población negra caribeña más importante del departamento y la única en el país son los garínagu, que son conocidos como garífunas. Este grupo étnico que recién cumplió doscientos años de vida centroamericana (1797-1997), de filiación lingüística caribe arawak, nos permite adentrarnos en una historia y cultura diferentes a la de los pueblos mayas. 

Esta población negra tiene una cultura sincrética en la que los elementos africanos, amerindios y europeos se manifiestan de particular manera. Ahora asentados en Puerto Barrios, pero sobre todo en Livingston, le imprimen a la región un carácter particular. 

Su sistema festivo, es rico en tradiciones y en cuanto al arte de la danza acompañada de la poliritmia de los tambores y de particulares cantos. Su tradición de pescadores y de grandes navegantes permite acercanos a otra cultura desconocida en la Guatemala contemporánea.





			
				jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello;
> 
> I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries. If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful. Some questions I have:
> 
> What percentage of the population are they ?
> 
> Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
> 
> Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
> 
> Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.


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## TommyilRomano

jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello;
> 
> I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries. If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful. Some questions I have:
> 
> What percentage of the population are they ?
> 
> Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
> 
> Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
> 
> Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.



You can just go here: cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

It has %'s of populations of all countries.


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## Gustavoang

Hello!

Soy de Venezuela y soy una persona morena.

*What percentage of the population are they?*
No he escuchado en este país sobre alguna encuesta/censo de ese tipo, incluso he revisado el sitio web del "Instituto Nacional de Estadística" de Venezuela  y no encontré algo similar, inclusive en el enlace que dio TommyilRomano al documento de la CIA no tiene el porcentaje. Lo que te puedo decir es que en general, *según mi opinión*: Los blancos predominan y la cantidad de morenos está bien cerca a la de los blancos, pero los negros son una minoría.​
*Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?*
No. Aquí, al igual que en muchos países, los dialectos van de acuerdo a la ubicación geográfica.​
*Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?*
Que yo recuerde en este momento, contra negros importados e indígenas, hasta hace un par de siglos con la esclavitud. Puedes encontrar más información en: http://www.fpolar.org.ve/nosotros/educacional/economia/esclavitud.html​
*Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.*
Te puedo decir que *nunca* (osea, jamás) he recibido un mal trato por parte de alguien por el hecho de ser moreno.

En cuanto a racismo/xenofobia, sólo te puedo decir:

Lo más que yo he notado aquí es que mucha gente no-negra, dice abiertamente (dependiendo de la situación) no sentirse atraída por gente negra. Hay otros que les encanta.
Una cosa que siempre me ha lamado la atención, es que en las novelas siempre los protagonistas son blancos (excepto una llamada "Negra consentida", hasta donde yo sé).
Una vez escuché en la radio, que una persona negra trató de entrar a una disco, pero no lo dejaron pasar porque al dueño (quien es extranjero) no le gusta esa clase de gente. Esta es la única situación que yo he escuchado así, del resto NO he visto ni escuchado algo así en toda mi vida estando en este país.

Imagínate que *mi novia es portuguesa* y TODA su familia (los que están y/o han venido a Venezuela) es un amor conmigo. Además, también la mitad de mis amigos más cercanos son portugueses y su familia se porta excelente conmigo. También he tenido amigos españoles, italianos, japoneses (o chinos, no recuerdo bien), de Trinidad y Tobago, de Grecia...

Pienso que nosotros somos bastante abiertos con los extranjeros y con personas que no sean de nuestra raza, a diferencia de lo que he escuchado sobre varios paises del primer mundo.​
Espero haberte sido útil en tu trabajo.

Saludos!

------------------------------


			
				ABSURDO said:
			
		

> I apologised also....it has been an unpleasant situation. That word is higly offensive. it is like "n*gr*ta" in spanish.



I would not say "in spanish"... Maybe it's only in Spain.

Negrita/Negrito es una frase de cariño bastante usada en Venezuela. De hecho, yo soy moreno y hay gente en mi familia que me dicen "negrito".

Negrote/Negrota se usa para referirse a una persona negra que sea alta o gorda, ambos inclusive. No es una ofensa.

-----------------------------


			
				TommyilRomano said:
			
		

> You can just go here: cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/


That's a good source! Thanks! I added it to my boomarks!


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## Mariaguadalupe

Jacinta,


Eventhough this thread is almost a year old, my two cents is the following:

Most "blacks" brought by the Conquistadores and later trips were basically located in Veracruz and toward the south of Mexico. As Leonardo stated, "racism" is not an issue here towards them. There were so many mixed marriages, that we cannot say to this date our exact race. So many heritages have been blended! 

I know there is a region in Oaxaca where black people live. They are called "black Mexicans". Some of them are very poor, as is the majority of the population in the southern states of our country. Media people brought them to light because of the recent friction with the US over the "Memin Pinguin" postal stamps issued by our government. The African-american community in the States protested quite loudly against them and our President regretfully made a wrong choice of words furthering damaging relations. However in defense of President Fox, there is no verbal discrimination in Mexico, either towards black nor native people, so there is no context in our language to that effect. Here you call a black black and a white white. This is done AT FACE VALUE. No hidden intention there. 

As someone else said, it is more a case of social standing than of race. I cannot say that we discriminate against native people either, for there are many "indians" that have played an important part of our history. One of them being Benito Juarez, one of the best loved presidents in our history and loved by many countries in Latinamerica. He was a native from Oaxaca. He was president during the 1860's. The phrase he coined is known world wide: _"...el respeto al derecho ajeno, es la paz". _He is also called the "Benemérito de las Américas". I know that Israel even named a park after him in recent years. 

Jacinta, again, I'm sorry this is very late in getting to you. I'm sure your research has concluded by now, but I just thought it was worth noting that in Mexico, blacks are welcomed. As a people, we try very hard not to discriminate.

Best regards,

MG


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## Noel Acevedo

Hi Jacinta:

A recently concluded study out of the University of Puerto Rico, Mayaguez campus indicated  that 27% of the population, using DNA samples of females were of sub-saharan african stock; 61% Taino Indian and 11% European.  When extrapolated to male DNA the numbers inverted, with 61% European stock from the male side.  So at least 1 out of every four puertorricans has some african blood in his veins from his mothers side.

There is no difference in the Spanish spoken; though they have had a great influence in music (think salsa).

Even with such a mixture of races, where you would think that there should be no discrimination, there is a lot, it is sutle, discrete and thus the worst kind.  If you look at our local TV programs and commercials, you'd think everyone is lilly white.

Noel




			
				jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello;
> 
> I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries. If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful. Some questions I have:
> 
> What percentage of the population are they ?
> 
> Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
> 
> Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
> 
> Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.


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## tiadelabahia

In Cuba Blacks make up almost 70% of the population.  Brazil blacks make up about half of the population, depending on your definition of Black.  In the Domincian Republic, blacks make up almost 90% of the population.  

Keep in mind mulatos are typically not included in the same catgory as Blacks.  So depending on your defintion of Blacks, the numbers may even be higher.


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## tiadelabahia

Noel Acevedo said:
			
		

> Hi Jacinta:
> 
> A recently concluded study out of the University of Puerto Rico, Mayaguez campus indicated that 27% of the population, using DNA samples of females were of sub-saharan african stock; 61% Taino Indian and 11% European. When extrapolated to male DNA the numbers inverted, with 61% European stock from the male side. So at least 1 out of every four puertorricans has some african blood in his veins from his mothers side.
> 
> There is no difference in the Spanish spoken; though they have had a great influence in music (think salsa).
> 
> Even with such a mixture of races, where you would think that there should be no discrimination, there is a lot, it is sutle, discrete and thus the worst kind. If you look at our local TV programs and commercials, you'd think everyone is lilly white.
> 
> Noel


 
I'm sorry but that study is not correct.  You have to ask yourselves some key questions.  
1.  Who did they test?
2.  Where did they test?
3.  What qualifies as black, indian, or european to them?

Although mixed people make up a very small percentage on the Puerto Rican census.  The fact of the matter, is that ALMOST ALL PUERTO RICANS ARE MIXED REGARDLESS OF APPEARANCE.  I've never met a Puerto Rican (and I've met a lot, being that I am Puerto Rican), that wasn't part Black, or Black themselves, *NO MATTER WHAT THEIR PHYSICAL APPEARANCE LOOKS LIKE.*  In Puerto Rico, Whites cannot separate themselves from Blacks like in other countries like the U.S.A.  Not to mention if there are Blacks in their families.

There is  A LOT OF RACISM in Latin America.  It's just that people either choose to ignore it, or are naive, stupid, or something.  In Latin America the way racism works is by making you thing that it doesn't exist, and that there is a racial utopia, therefore you won't question why so many people that look like you are poor, and live in worst conditions, and are not represented in the media, or in the government.  It works by brainwashing you.  I've met many Brazilians that come to the U.S.A. that say that there is so much racism here.  When there's also a lot of racism in Brazil, I guess they're just used to dealing with that type instead.  

Oh, and by the way a lot of Latin American media shoves *INSANELY ABSURD LIES DOWN OUR THROATS, *maybe not all, but a lot of it.  My point is, for example:  there was a movie that was supposed to take place in the Dominican Republic, which is 90%  Black.  In the movie, there was *NOT ONE SINGLE BLACK PERSON, *there was just one mulato, who was an extra, without a speaking role.  My point is that racism in Latin America works *through* the media, by *PRETENDING LIKE BLACKS, AND INDIANS DO NOT EXIST.*  Except, for of course, a few token Blacks, and virtually no Indians.This movie took a Black country, and made it look like Spain.  Can anyone tell me what their motives were?!


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## Eloisa Giseburt

EthanAG said:
			
		

> OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states. This isn't the 1950's, 98 % of USA believes all men are equal which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.


 

If you visit Eastern Texas you will see a lot prejudice agains African American. I have seen people changing places in  restaurants because there is an African American next to their table!!!!


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## SpiceMan

Artrella said:
			
		

> Nowadays there are not Blacks left because they were all sent to wars( La guerra del desierto, la guerra con Paraguay) and they were all killed on the battlefield as well as the indians.


More on Argentina: besides the wars, thousands of black people died on flu epidemies (1918 - Gripe Española, 1957 - Gripe Asiática) where the poor areas (including the heavily black populated areas) were the most heavily stricken. Some sources claim that during tango's malevos particularly aimed at black population to pick up fights (knives fights).

According to an article written in 1976 by journalist Blas Matamoro, Buenos Aires had 60% of black population at some point in colonial times.

Extraofficial statistics (the official census does not include etnicity) put figures around half a million of people with direct black ancestry in Argentina, 39% of which would be descendants of slaves in Argentina, 29% from Africa, and the rest from other american countries.

According to a test performed by a French chemist, 3% of the Rosario population has some degree of black ancestry.

On the personal side, my great-great-great-great grandfather was mulato (which doesn't show). And I have a black acquaintance from Lanús (Buenos Aires' suburbs). His grandmother was a slave. 

Nowadays blacks, particularly brazilian ones, seem to be some kind of fetish for women. (Yes, if you're black, come to Argentina and get some chicks).

Spanish speaking latinamerica-wise, don't forget that black slaves were used scarcely, spaniards mainly used native americans for slavery.


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## fran kornbacher

Hola Colegas: 
Yo vivo en California y estuve casada con un negro y ahora tengo un novio que es negro (afro americano) para no ofender a nadie. Claro, por supuesto que existe mucho racismo en este pais y no estoy de acuerdo con la opinion del colega EthanAG. La gente se basa en el estereotio, por ejemplo; si ven a un negro que esta en buena forma y con una musculatura fenomenal, que es lo primero que la gente piensa? OH! acaba salir de la prision. Si ves a un negro manejando un carro ultimo modelo lo primero que piensan es que es o traficante o se lo robo. Estos mas o menos son ejemplos de como la sociedad los califica. Bueno dejemolos hasta aqui. 
En Venezuela tengo muchos amigos que son negros, claro hay pueblos como Barlovento donde se ve mas negros que blancos u otro color de piel. estoy muy de acuerdo con GustavoAn en las novelas solo se ven los blancos (catires) protagonizando y los negros hacen el papel de sirvientes, al igual que las propagantas de television, casi no ves a un trigueno mucho menos un negro. En que estamos cayendo? Yo creo que mucho de esto tiene que ver con la influencia de los Estados Unidos sobre los demas paises. Pero si debemos admitir que los negros sobresalen en musica, baile, y en el deporte y cuentan con una genetica incomparable.  
Take care

Take care


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## swingbolder

To the OP: You should go over to afrolatino.com and post your questions there. It's a website for Latinos of African descent. You'll get a perspective different from some of the responses you've gotten here. 

There is also a photo exhibit in NYC currently showing about Mexican blacks at the Caribbean Cultural Center African Diaspora Institute, some of the pictures can be seen at: maschulo.com.


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## tiadelabahia

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> More on Argentina: besides the wars, thousands of black people died on flu epidemies (1918 - Gripe Española, 1957 - Gripe Asiática) where the poor areas (including the heavily black populated areas) were the most heavily stricken. Some sources claim that during tango's malevos particularly aimed at black population to pick up fights (knives fights).
> 
> According to an article written in 1976 by journalist Blas Matamoro, Buenos Aires had 60% of black population at some point in colonial times.
> 
> Extraofficial statistics (the official census does not include etnicity) put figures around half a million of people with direct black ancestry in Argentina, 39% of which would be descendants of slaves in Argentina, 29% from Africa, and the rest from other american countries.
> 
> According to a test performed by a French chemistry, 3% of the Rosario population has some degree of black ancestry.
> 
> On the personal side, my great-great-great-great grandfather was mulato (which doesn't show). And I have a black acquaintance from Lanús (Buenos Aires' suburbs). His grandmother was a slave.
> 
> Nowadays blacks, particularly brazilian ones, seem to be some kind of fetish for women. (Yes, if you're black, come to Argentina and get some chicks).
> 
> Spanish speaking latinamerica-wise, don't forget that black slaves were used scarcely, spaniards mainly used native americans for slavery.


 
This is ONLY PARTIALLY TRUE!  There aren't many "BLACKS" in Argentina, because a) so many Europeans were constantly immigrating there, and b) so many of these Europeans, if there family has been there long enough, are descendants of Blacks, just like many other whites in Latin America.  

In Latin America, if you're descended from, or part Black, you can easily forget it, unless you have physical characteristics.  In the U.S. where ONE DROP OF AFRICAN BLOOD MAKES YOU BLACK, you cannot forget being part Black, because someone will remind you.  SO THAT DEBUNKS THE MYTH GOING ON THIS BOARD THAT THERE IS LITTLE TO NO RACISM TOWARDS BLACKS IN THE U.S.A.


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## tiadelabahia

tiadelabahia said:
			
		

> This is ONLY PARTIALLY TRUE! There aren't many "BLACKS" in Argentina, because a) so many Europeans were constantly immigrating there, and b) so many of these Europeans, if there family has been there long enough, are descendants of Blacks, just like many other whites in Latin America.
> 
> In Latin America, if you're descended from, or part Black, you can easily forget it, unless you have physical characteristics. In the U.S. where ONE DROP OF AFRICAN BLOOD MAKES YOU BLACK, you cannot forget being part Black, because someone will remind you. SO THAT DEBUNKS THE MYTH GOING ON THIS BOARD THAT THERE IS LITTLE TO NO RACISM TOWARDS BLACKS IN THE U.S.A.


 
OH!  I forgot!  AT ONE POINT IN HISTORY ARGENTINA WAS ACTUALLY MAJORITY BLACK!  The Argentinian Government has INTENTIONALY left Blacks out of the census for some time.  This action has made it a stigma for the Blacks remaining to identify as such.  There is a group that is actually going around door to door, maybe in certain neighborhoods, doing research on Black history in Argentina, and they have discovered that there are Blacks in Argentina, it's only that they are not counted by the government.  *If the government won't even count you, what does that tell you about your worth to them?*


----------



## SpiceMan

Well, first, I don't care what do americans define as black. Second, if i'm consider black by americans because -as I said- one of my ancesters was black, I don't actually give a damn (sorry about the expression, couldn't find a better way to express it). Or vietnamese or whatever. Because I don't pay attention to ethnicity at all.

Third:


> The Argentinian Government has INTENTIONALY left Blacks out of the census for some time.


 The government census hasn't included ethnicity on its census forms EVER. So you could also consider that as leaving out native americans, whites, asians, martians and whatever ethnic group you can think of. 
(Actually I think that that policy is a non-racist one, rather than a racist one)

Fourth: I also said that an independent investigation by a journalist stated that the Buenos Aires population was comprised of about 60% of black people at some point.

Fifth:  If there is racism or not in USA is of no concern in this thread. And this is not the place to make a political statement. About the myth thing... this is my 2nd day posting, I don't know what this has to do with me nor why I'm quoted in the middle of this. (nor how you know that, if your post counter is correct: four posts)

Also I'd like to note that nowadays black argentinians are mainly in Buenos Aires' suburbs (ie: you won't see them in Buenos Aires, nor other major cities). Nonetheless, saying half a million is about twice the people than lets say for instance the Korean community, which is widely regarded as a fairly big community. IMHO, this is mainly due to the fact that the "official" view in Argentina is 99.9% Buenos Aires-centric (Where I remind you, there are little black people around). 

And last but not least, drop the caps please, I can read properly without caps.

edit: I can't post links, you can find a good reference in a series of articles titled "Pasado y presente de los Negros en Buenos Aires". Although only about Buenos Aires, it's pretty informative and fully detailed, citing resources, etc. (in Spanish)

edit2: a french chemist said about 3% in Rosario, I guess that chemistry can find even the slightest trace of whatever you're searching. Then again, black people seems to be in the suburbs and I'm no chemist.


----------



## tiadelabahia

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Well, first, I don't care what do americans define as black. Second, if i'm consider black by americans because -as I said- one of my ancesters was black, I don't actually give a damn (sorry about the expression, couldn't find a better way to express it). Or vietnamese or whatever. Because I don't pay attention to ethnicity at all.
> 
> Third:
> The government census hasn't included ethnicity on its census forms EVER. So you could also consider that as leaving out native americans, whites, asians, martians and whatever ethnic group you can think of.
> (Actually I think that that policy is a non-racist one, rather than a racist one)
> 
> Fourth: I also said that an independent investigation by a journalist stated that the Buenos Aires population was comprised of about 60% of black people at some point.
> 
> Fifth: If there is racism or not in USA is of no concern in this thread. And this is not the place to make a political statement. About the myth thing... this is my 2nd day posting, I don't know what this has to do with me nor why I'm quoted in the middle of this. (nor how you know that, if your post counter is correct: four posts)
> 
> Also I'd like to note that nowadays black argentinians are mainly in Buenos Aires' suburbs (ie: you won't see them in Buenos Aires, nor other major cities). Nonetheless, saying half a million is about twice the people than lets say for instance the Korean community, which is widely regarded as a fairly big community. IMHO, this is mainly due to the fact that the "official" view in Argentina is 99.9% Buenos Aires-centric (Where I remind you, there are little black people around).
> 
> And last but not least, drop the caps please, I can read properly without caps.
> 
> edit: I can't post links, you can find a good reference in a series of articles titled "Pasado y presente de los Negros en Buenos Aires". Although only about Buenos Aires, it's pretty informative and fully detailed, citing resources, etc. (in Spanish)
> 
> edit2: a french chemist said about 3% in Rosario, I guess that chemistry can find even the slightest trace of whatever you're searching. Then again, black people seems to be in the suburbs and I'm no chemist.


 
thanks for the articles.

But please calm down, no one was attacking you PERSONALLY!

By the way, someone brought up the topic of there being hardly any racism towards blacks in the U.S., if it's okay with you, I'd thought I'd respond.  

The topic of Blacks in Latin America IS also related to the topic of Blacks in the U.S., AND throughout the world.  So.....I may show similarities as well as differences, especially since the topic was brought up by others, and I was responding.  

No one was making a political statement, but If I so choose to, then I will.  I was posing a question, for others to come to their own conclusions.

And by the way this forum IS about Blacks in Latin America, I would say that this is the perfect time to make a political statement which pertains to the topic.


----------



## SpiceMan

Well, maybe you don't know this and I jumped out to conclusions but is good nettiquette (internet etiquette) to avoid caps. Typing in caps is considered yelling. Try using bold or italics to add emphasis. (which are handily available on this forum). Or putting the word you want to emphasize between underscores (like _this_ < conveys  that it's underlined), between slashes (like /this/, italics), or asterisks (like *this*, bold) if you find taking your hands off the keyboard and reaching the mouse annoying (no sarcasm, I find it annoying). You can also use the CTRL-B (bold), CTRL-I (italics), CTRL-U (underline) key combinations (greatly appreciated by me).

On a side note, this forum is about languages. This thread is about blacks in LA.

I've only been long enough as to grasp if there's racism or not in a country only in Argentina and Brazil. I'm not saying there are no racist people there (there are lots of kinds of people in any given country), but if you ask me if I think Argentina or Brazil are racists countries, I'd reply with a confident "no".


----------



## tvdxer

Cuando estaba en Costa Rica, habia un numero sorpresante de negros, y no fui a Limon (los negros ticos se limitaron a este provincia hasta ~1950).  Que encontre como muy diferente es que hablaba como Latinos / Ticos!  Lo siento....pero fue interesante  .

No me parece que habia mucha discriminacion y racismo hasta los negros.  Los Chinos alla tenia fama de juntarse con pandillas / crimen, que es mucho, mucho al contrario de aqui, donde son sabidos los Chinos como personajes que trabajan muy duro.  

De cualquier modo, a muchos no les gustaban los Nicaraguenses.


----------



## tiadelabahia

leonardo956 said:
			
		

> Here in Mexico, Blacks were brought a long time ago, and there were very few. You can't find any Black people in Mexico because they are so mixed into our race. Us Mexicans are a mixed blooded people, and the little Black people that were brought to Mexico are just as mixed into us as the Spaniards, so you are very unlikely to find any Black people here. You will find from time to time someone who has some black features, or someone who's skin is black, but his face is very unlikely to have of the feature from the Blacks from the USA.
> 
> Here in Mexico, it's not offensive to call someone Black, simply because, d-uh!What else are you going to that person? Most people in Mexico when they hear for the first time the big deal Americans make about it, just laugh and ask why is it offensive?


 
Actually, Blacks FIRST arrived in Mexico as Explorers before the Spanish, then they also arrived WITH the Spanish, they were also BROUGHT by the Spanish as slaves.  I've actually read, that there was a large percentage of Blacks at one point in Mexico.  Blacks typically live along the coast, although there may not be many people that look or identify as blacks.


----------



## SofiaB

http://forums.terra.com/foros/deportes/actualidad_C5/actualidad_mexicana_F73/foro_P5660
Hay comentarios sobre los de origen africano en México.


----------



## Gustavoang

tiadelabahia said:
			
		

> Actually, Blacks FIRST arrived in Mexico as Explorers before the Spanish, then they also arrived WITH the Spanish, they were also BROUGHT by the Spanish as slaves.



I've never heard of something like that. Blacks got there before Spain? How did they do that? Then they also knew the root to the new continent?

We're talking about african blacks, right?

Cheers.


----------



## tiadelabahia

Gustavoang said:
			
		

> I've never heard of something like that. Blacks got there before Spain? How did they do that? Then they also knew the root to the new continent?
> 
> We're talking about african blacks, right?
> 
> Cheers.


 
Yes, There were African explorers.  I believe they were Mandinka.  The Olmec, and I don't know which other Native tribes are descended from these Africans, as well as Indians, of course.  There is a direct ocean current from West Africa to Mexico/Central America.  There are books on the topic.  I believe that the Olmec, and Mandika languages may have similarities.  Some people say that there were Africans there first based on the facial features of some of statues in Central America and Mexico, (which could be true), but that's only speculation.  There are hard facts on the matter.  There is a book called "They Came Before Columbus".  You should read it.


----------



## Gustavoang

Hi, tiadelabahia.

Everyday we learn something new.

I honestly didn't know that.

Thank you!



			
				tiadelabahia said:
			
		

> Yes, There were African explorers.  I believe they were Mandinka.  The Olmec, and I don't know which other Native tribes are descended from these Africans, as well as Indians, of course.  There is a direct ocean current from West Africa to Mexico/Central America.  There are books on the topic.  I believe that the Olmec, and Mandika languages may have similarities.  Some people say that there were Africans there first based on the facial features of some of statues in Central America and Mexico, (which could be true), but that's only speculation.  There are hard facts on the matter.  There is a book called "They Came Before Columbus".  You should read it.


----------



## KateNicole

May I just say (and pardon me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't have time to read every post in its entirety) that I think the lack of black presence in the major latino television networks of the US speaks volumes of the lack of acceptance.  Rarely will you ever see a black person on a television show or soap opera, and many times they are portrayed negatively.  Not even in shows like "Sábado Gigante" can you often find a black model.  I believe Elia Calderón became the first black newscaster to ever be appointed to a major network (Telemundo) around the year 2000..........although blacks have existed in Latin America for over a hundred years.  I don't think there is a strong hatred against blacks, but skin color is definitely an issue in L.A. and the fact that the television networks choose to not represent black Latinos sends a pretty clear message in my opinion.... Just something to think about.


----------



## Outsider

The theory that the Olmecs were of African descent is highly controversial, to put it kindly.


----------



## Fernando

Yes, I mean, everywhere were in America before Columbus, you know: vikings, Chinese, Egyptians, Africans, Siberians...

It is even said that Columbus was there before Columbus. It is all false:

I

was there before Columbus.


----------



## hedonist

Outsider said:
			
		

> The theory that the Olmecs were of African descent is highly controversial, to put it kindly.


Excellent article but not only that.




> Yes, There were African explorers. I believe they were Mandinka. The Olmec, and I don't know which other Native tribes are descended from these Africans, as well as Indians, of course. There is a direct ocean current from West Africa to Mexico/Central America. There are books on the topic. I believe that the Olmec, and Mandika languages may have similarities. Some people say that there were Africans there first based on the facial features of some of statues in Central America and Mexico, (which could be true), but that's only speculation. There are hard facts on the matter. There is a book called "They Came Before Columbus". You should read it.


 
 I’m afraid that these claims made by some misguided Afrocentrists like van Sertima that “black”/Africans influenced major civilizations around the world have been proven time and again to be unabashed fabrications that don’t have an ounce of truth and credibility to them when examined under closer inspection. It is akin to racist pseudo-scientific Eurocentric propaganda but under a different banner at its very best or should that be worst. It all sets out to do is deny Native Americans of their owns achievements and accomplishments by insisting that their civilizations needed outside assistance to reach the levels of sophistication they eventually did. I find this kind intellectually dishonest behaviour incredibly repugnant and despicable. And given that African Americans and others of African origin have suffered discrimination and maltreatment throughout much of recent history it is surprisingly disappointing and sad that they’re participating in similar behaviour towards other ethnic groups. They of all people should know what that is like. Africa and its inhabitants have a rich history and impressive cultures and civilizations of their own as it is for them to need to steal someone else’s by falsely claiming fictitious input.

I wonder how people of African ancestry would react if suddenly there were claims that Native Americans arrived in Africa that were instrumental in establishing major civilizations there. Thankfully no scholar from the other side of the pond has ever stooped that low. 



   Here is a link that touches further on this issue:

http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=73

Some comments by reputable scholars including an African American. It is a lengthy article so I took the liberty of highlighting the poignant points. I hope I haven’t overstepped the mark and quoted too much from it. Moderators can delete the quotes if they want and just leave the links.


DAVID L. BROWMAN 
Department of Anthropology_, Washington University, St.   Louis_



> On another level, however, I think it is appropriate to point out the inherent "racism" of some of the assumptions that are involved in the arguments investigated. If one reports that there are pyramids in Egypt and pyramids in Mexico, or mummies in Egypt and mummies in Chile, the automatic response seems to be, "When did the Egyptians bring these ideas to the New World?" No one ever asks, "Did the Chileans or Mexicans bring these ideas to Egypt?" (a fair question, in light of the fact that the world's oldest prepared mummies in Chile pre-date Egyptian examples by two millennia). The assumption of a wide range of pseudoscholars, as well as others, seems to be one of "mentally handicapped First Americans." Prehistoric New World peoples seem to be consistently seen not as having the intellectual capacity to invent or develop technology on their own but as waiting with open arms for some poor lost African, or Asian, or European to make a transoceanic voyage to bring them one or another cultural idea. This kind of thinking is repugnant to me and is the reason that many of us disregard the publications of Van Sertima and others of similar approaches.


 
   MICHAEL D. COE 
_Peabody Museum of Natural History__, Yale University, New   Haven, Conn_



> I find two aspects of Van Sertima's Afrocentric thesis extremely disturbing. First, it demeans and trivializes the genuine cultural achievements of native Americans. The creation of Mesoamerica's first civilization, the Olmec, was a mighty achievement, and to attempt to take this away from the indigenous peoples of Mesoamerica on the flimsiest basis is an unworthy exercise. Secondly, it disturbs me as an American citizen to see this kind of wishful thinking imposed on our education system; it is only too similar to the attempt by creationists to force their own unscientific beliefs on biology classes.


   GERALD EARLY 
_African and Afro-American Studies__, Campus Box 1109, Washington University, St. Louis, Mo_



> The authors are right in suggesting that Afrocentrism is Eurocentrism in blackface. One of the serious problems that oppressed people like African-Americans face is dealing with the sometimes destructive tendency to create parallel institutions that copy white ones almost entirely. In this case, here is an attempt at institutionalized history with all the racist prerogatives of European imperialist history. Afrocentrism is not only a historiography of decline, as Wilson J. Moses suggested, a history of defeat, but a historiography of resentment and jealousy of European history. Now, with the help of Van Sertima, we blacks have our Captain Cook myth. Indeed, it even goes the Cook myth one better, as the natives here not only worshipped the blacks as gods but never deigned to eat them.


----------



## Outsider

I agree with your comments, but let me just point out that there are different brands of Afrocentrism. The original purpose of Afrocentrism, from what I can make out, was to study the genuine accomplishments of black and African peoples, which were indeed neglected for a long time. There are serious Afrocentrists, but of course there are also those few oddballs who could use a little more critical thinking, as in any other ethnicity or field of history.


----------



## hedonist

KateNicole said:
			
		

> May I just say (and pardon me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't have time to read every post in its entirety) that I think the lack of black presence in the major latino television networks of the US speaks volumes of the lack of acceptance. Rarely will you ever see a black person on a television show or soap opera, and many times they are portrayed negatively. Not even in shows like "Sábado Gigante" can you often find a black model. I believe Elia Calderón became the first black newscaster to ever be appointed to a major network (Telemundo) around the year 2000..........although blacks have existed in Latin America for over a hundred years. I don't think there is a strong hatred against blacks, but skin color is definitely an issue in L.A. and the fact that the television networks choose to not represent black Latinos sends a pretty clear message in my opinion.... Just something to think about.



But don't "blacks" suffer discrimination over the world? This isn' exaclty exclusive to "Latin" America. It applies to North America, Europe, Asia, Middle East even Africa as much as it does to "Latin" America if not more. Black themselves have to strive to achieve and succeed to change negative racist perceptions of them and not "beg" and wait for non-Africans to "respect" them. Self-pity and a victim mentality don't usually persuade others to have positive images of an individual, it's usually disdain . You have to learn to love yourself before others begin to "love" you and begin to see you in a different light.


----------



## maxiogee

Fernando said:
			
		

> Yes, I mean, everywhere were in America before Columbus, you know: vikings, Chinese, Egyptians, Africans, Siberians...



The Irish know that Saint Brendan (484 - 577 A.D.) and a group of monks made it across in a leather&pitch boat on a voyage which took seven years. We have the legends and records to prove it.


----------



## Fernando

My mistake, I forgot "San Brandán/Brandano", the whale and so on. I imagine Atlantic and Pacific Oceans as a big jammed highway before 1492.


----------



## maxiogee

The Irish never made it to the Pacific, to the best of my knowledge, but legend alleges that the dark skin of people on the west coast of Ireland is down to matings with North African traders. While these would not necessarily have been "black" they would have been darker than the average Celt.
Legend(?) also says that Christopher Columbus stopped in Galway on his first voyage across the Atlantic - attending Mass in the cathedral there.


----------



## grumpus

KateNicole said:
			
		

> May I just say (and pardon me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't have time to read every post in its entirety) that I think the lack of black presence in the major latino television networks of the US speaks volumes of the lack of acceptance. Rarely will you ever see a black person on a television show or soap opera, and many times they are portrayed negatively. Not even in shows like "Sábado Gigante" can you often find a black model. I believe Elia Calderón became the first black newscaster to ever be appointed to a major network (Telemundo) around the year 2000..........although blacks have existed in Latin America for over a hundred years. I don't think there is a strong hatred against blacks, but skin color is definitely an issue in L.A. and the fact that the television networks choose to not represent black Latinos sends a pretty clear message in my opinion.... Just something to think about.


 

Hi KateNicole et al,

I think you're right.  Probably the issue of race in L.A.  has been covered before in this forum; I find the issue very important and the comparisons with the U.S. are very revealing. 
I have been to a few L.A. countries with large black populations (Cuba, Venezuela, Brazil)  and find striking similarities in discrimination against them.   However, the rhetoric is quite different in each country (and changing particularly in Venezuela).  Cuba recognizes the discrimination and it has made more adjustments than any other country (Blacks still suffer discrimination though).
My Brazilian friends appear to now understand that classism and racism are intricately linked and there exist structural barrier to black advancement (The old Brazilian line was that it's just class, not race).
I think Venezuelans are now starting to recognize this.  But hostility (tied to the Chavez phenomenon) muddles the issue a bit.
Colombia (no offense meant to Colombians here)  seems to be in another universe in terms of treatment of their black population.

I would like to see more discussion on these issues.

ciao,
Grumpus


----------



## Yuribear

Hi Jacinta, 

Getting back to your question... and adding to the already useful information that has been posted about africans in Mexico. There is actually a village in the State of Veracruz, México, called Yanga that is basically a african-mexican community. And there is some other useful information about the African legacy in Mexico that you can read.

It could be said that black people are well accepted in Mexico. However, our government rarely issues visas to african people now-a-days, for pressure from our neighbours to the North. Yet the ones that manage to come into our country are warmly welcomed and even regarded as visitors extraodinaire. Just to give you an idea, a Nigerian friend of ours came to Mexico during the Christmas holiday... as 6th of January approached, which is one of THE most celebrated days, when the 3 Wise Men (called Reyes Magos) came to visit Jesus and gave him presents, everywhere we went... children will gather around him and asked him for their presents... thinking He was one of the famous three. That's how often you see one... Veracruz excluded.

All the best in your study!!!


----------



## afrofeline

For those questioning the African presence in Latin America, particularly Argentina, check out these sites or just do a search as required
-La comunidad Afro
-Afro-Argentines
-"blacks in Argentina"
-aprendizdetodo.com


----------



## maxiogee

EthanAG said:
			
		

> OK. #1 There is hardly any prejudice against african american in the states.   This isn't the 1950's, 98 % of USA believes all men are equal which is the truth, so when you say prejudice is strong in the U.S. , please get your facts right.



And probably a similar figure believe it is wrong to steal, or to kill. But that doesn't stop it happening.


----------



## Bettie

Yuribear said:
			
		

> Hi Jacinta,
> 
> 
> It could be said that black people are well accepted in Mexico. However, our government rarely issues visas to african people now-a-days, for pressure from our neighbours to the North. Yet the ones that manage to come into our country are warmly welcomed and even regarded as visitors extraodinaire. Just to give you an idea, a Nigerian friend of ours came to Mexico during the Christmas holiday... as 6th of January approached, which is one of THE most celebrated days, when the 3 Wise Men (called Reyes Magos) came to visit Jesus and gave him presents, everywhere we went... children will gather around him and asked him for their presents... thinking He was one of the famous three. That's how often you see one... Veracruz excluded.
> 
> All the best in your study!!!


 
That's so cute!!!

And yes, I was thinking exactly that if there is a place where you can find a black person is Veracruz!!
And I think there are discrimination toward black people!! Maybe because we don't see them very often, but I have aunts that when they travel to Miami are very afraid of black people  That's very wrong but it's true.
And I think that in the States the racism still exists.


----------



## grumpus

Bettie said:
			
		

> That's so cute!!!
> 
> And yes, I was thinking exactly that if there is a place where you can find a black person is Veracruz!!
> And I think there are discrimination toward black people!! Maybe because we don't see them very often, but I have aunts that when they travel to Miami are very afraid of black people  That's very wrong but it's true.
> And I think that in the States the racism still exists.




Hi Bettie, 
you are right again. But I think Mexicans have "internalized" the racism of the U.S.  
If you watch our movies, news etc. in a foreign country, I am not surprised that people would be fearful of blacks.  Also, Mexican immigrants often share neighborhoods with poor black residents (e.g. south central L.A., or Oakland ) so they would relate their experiences to relatives in Mexico

saludos,
Grumpus


----------



## parodi

In the US, if you have black ancestry you can be considered black. Even if this is a very small percentage of your bloodline. My wife's aunt lived in Suriname (formerly Dutch Guiana) in South America and she told me that the same thing happens there--only in reverse. If you are mostly black and you have white ancestors then you can be considered white.

She found out this cultural diffence while discussing the local scene in the capital, Paramaribo. She was speaking to a friend about an acquaintance of hers that she had met and she inquired about the "black doctor she knew."

Her friend racked her brain. Black doctor? She didn't know any black doctors. When my wife's aunt finally remembered the doctor's name, she was surprised to find that her friend did not consider this man to be black, despite his african ancestry, because he claimed a good deal of white blood and also the fact that he was a doctor raised his standing to the "white level of society."

I think a good starting point for your research would to be to find out how the different spanish countries define exactly who is african/black.


----------



## shakiewakie

I would like to know if cubans are against black and white relationships as a whole or are the certain factors that exist.


----------



## 3omer Sharabi al Yahoud

some countries like Dominican Republic and  Cuba and brazil post castro (non-black exodus?) are predominantly black others like Puertorico,Venezuela,Colombia are Predominantly Tri Racial/Mixed most countries half majority Native American/spanish Mixed population like Mexico,Central America,Peru etc only predominantly spanish Countrry is Uruguay and Argentina(tho argentines are mixed with italians alot)


----------



## 707

jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello;
> 
> I am doing research on the role of people of African descent in Spanish speaking countries. If you can help me out with some views and opinions of how these people are viewed in countries other than the U.S., I would be grateful. Some questions I have:
> 
> What percentage of the population are they ?
> 
> Do they have a different dialect within the Spanish language?
> 
> Is there a history of prejudice against Blacks in your country?
> 
> Any comments you would like to make will be helpful.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.


 
I know you posted this some two years ago but I felt it necessary to chime in with a somewhat alternative perpsective on these issues.

Have you ever stopped to consider the possiblity that black people existed as an autochthonous stock on every continent including the Americas?

After all, it is less problematic to suggest that the first people had dark skin and Negritic features, that they utlized a lower sea-level to colonize all habitable continents after a would be ice age, than to suggest that people from Africa had the nautical technology to establish colonies across the doldrums.

There are evidences (scant, rare) which promote this possibility. If you can get your hands on these books: The Black Book. Middleton Harris New York: Random House, 1974, The Primitive Black Nations of America Rafinesque 1833, "Journey to Esplandian" Ordonez de Montalvo, you will quickly appreciate that the Black Olmecs were just one of many black nations to have been established in the Americas long before Columbus arrived there.

Furthermore, the classical Native Americans of purported "Mongoloid" stock themselves encapsulate this idea within their languages. Many tribes have words or phrases which indicate the existence of a former race, or an original native people whom the "Indians" themselves succeeded and retain in collective memory. For example the Navajo word Anazasi means "ancient ones" or "ancient enemy", or even "enemy ancestors"; the word is in some circles rendered: "ancient people who are not us". Curiously the Anazasi people of Chaco Canyon carved their dwellings out of sheer rock face. That seems at least to me to be a pretty desperate thing to do considering the vast expanse of lands at the disposal of an original peoples of North America. Common sense dictates that they were hiding from a hostile element while basic deduction posits that element as the so-called "Mongoloid", "Indian" who in this instance kindly for posterity chose to name the people he supplanted in a telling manner. It gets deeper when you consider the Spanish actually encountered what they called Gente Negra in these and arid inhospitable parts: black NEGROID Indians, and in California, black NEGROID Amazons.

Further investigation throws up some interesting findings in this regard. It is quite possible that the so-called Mongoloid Native Americans are really actually an atypical, distilled strain of Caucasoids, mingled with a trace of the black ancestry they themselves denote as ancient. It is possible that the blacks who made it across the land bridges of a pre-Pelegian world, were followed by a proto-Caucasian entity which became isolated with them in the Americas when the sea level rose.

Thus when Columbus arrived he found both brown skinned and straight haired, and dark skin, curly haired natives, the latter in submission to the former.


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## blksophisticado

I must admit that reading some of these comments makes me feel not only proud but also amazed at the ignorance of so many people.  Want to start with a couple of points.  I am Black American living in Miami Florida and I speak spanish fluently.  After having traveled to Honduras, Nicarauga, Costa Rica, and the Dominican Republic which all have considerable black populations I have concluded that Latin America in my opinion is more racist than the U.S. in many ways.  Not because I was treated badly in fact I was received very well in all of those places AMERICAN DOLLARS TALK WHETHER BLACK OR WHITE  but the problem is this.

The so called Hispanic or Latino race NOT A RACE AT ALL but is an ethnicity that has a tremendous color complex and tends to deny the heritage of the indeginous Indian and African cultures that are a great part of the ethnicity called Latino.  Many Latinos will quickly point out which great grandmother came from Spain but are not so quick to say that grandpa was a descendant of a slave in Cuba or descended from the indigenous so called Indian cultures that flourished in the Americas before the arrival of the Spaniards.  And as quiet as it is kept the inferiority complex of Latin America resonates all the way down to pop culture.
Latin telenovelas feature lighter skinned mulato to white skin actors and actresses. Mulatos may have their place as well but the Negro doesnt seem to exist in Latin pop culture.  Reminds me of the United States in the 1950s.  

The other problem is the lie that racism doesnt exist in Latin America.  Well, when the majority denies their black heritage and proudly claims their spanish ancestry (WHITE) while at the same time denying the other great part of their heritage of course racism doesnt exist.  Cant exist when everyones the same right?  While many black Latinos suffer from discrimination from other lighter skinned or white hispanics just as black Americans have suffered, the black Latino tendancy is to play deaf dumb or blind and to quickly claim a connection to Spain and defend the Hispanidad to death instead of proudly acknowledging any African heritage.  Im not saying they dont know they share black heritage.  If they didnt know there would be no need to deny it.  THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE UNITED STATES, BLACKS ARE BLACK BECAUSE FINALLY MANY OF US ARE PROUD TO BE BLACK AND HAVE NEVER BEEN FULLY ACCEPTED INTO THE U.S. MAINSTREAM ALTHOUGH WE ARE MORE AMERICAN THAN AMERICA ITSELF.  IN LATIN AMERICA THE SAME OPPRESSION TOWARDS BLACKS EXIST BUT BLACK LATINOS TEND TO SEE THEMSELVES AS BLACK BY COINCIDENCE, LATIN BY CULTURE, AND WHITE BY BLOOD.


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## HUMBERT0

blksophisticado said:


> I have concluded that Latin America in my opinion is more racist than the U.S. in many ways.
> 
> THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE UNITED STATES, BLACKS ARE BLACK BECAUSE FINALLY MANY OF US ARE PROUD TO BE BLACK AND HAVE NEVER BEEN FULLY ACCEPTED INTO THE U.S. MAINSTREAM ALTHOUGH WE ARE MORE AMERICAN THAN AMERICA ITSELF. IN LATIN AMERICA THE SAME OPPRESSION TOWARDS BLACKS EXIST BUT BLACK LATINOS TEND TO SEE THEMSELVES AS BLACK BY COINCIDENCE, LATIN BY CULTURE, AND WHITE BY BLOOD.


 
So, Blacks in the US are less racist towards themselves than Blacks in Latin America because they are part of a Latin culture, and think their only black by coincidence, and they think they are really white, whilst Blacks in the US are now proud to be Black, thanks to a new found pride and thanks to the people who have not fully accepted them?


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## blksophisticado

Not exactly.  The treatment of blacks in Latin America has not been as harsh as the treatment of blacks in the U.S.  In the 40s and 50s U.S. blacks were hung from trees, forbidden to eat, sleep, use restoom room facilities with whites and sometimes killed for looking directly into the eyes of whites which created a need for a Civil Rights movement, hence Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Rosa Parks boycotts marches etc.  After the Civil Rights Movement then came the 70s which after decades of struggle sparked a renaissance in Black American culture where perms and straightened hair, previously IN STYLE became viewed a self hatred and Afros braids and other natural hair styles became trend as blacks began to embrace their African Heritage.  In other words the extreme segregation in the U.S. gave way to a struggle towards self realization and pride.  That has not occurred in Latin America because the brand of racism in Latin America is more subtle and instead of outright attacking blacks it just turns a blind eye to them and pretends as if they dont exist.  Thus the argument is made that racism doesnt exist because in any given neighborhood you may find Blacks, whites, and mulatos living side by side or one family consisting of all of the above. If you however choose to LOOK A LITTLE CLOSER you will find that regardless of how mixed the family or neighborhood is, the government, TV commercials, soaps pop culture is dominated by lighter skinned or white hispanics and the half truth is told  that in Latin America its more of a class issue.  And it just so happens that the blacks make up the majority of the lower class.  In addition, INSTEAD OF CALLING OUT THE SYSTEM WHICH DISCRIMATES AGAINST THEM AND FIGHTING BACK, MANY LATIN AMERICAN BLACKS INSTEAD WOULD PROBABLY PREFER TO MARRY SOMEONE LIGHTER COMPLEXION IN AN EFFORT TO PRODUCE OFFSPRING WITH A MORE MULATO SKIN TONE, PELO BUENO AND FEATURES MORE FINO.  Not only is this process of attempting to breed themselves out of existence effective it is also not suspicious because the stereotype already exist amongst many that to look like a Latino means to be light skinned with mulato features.


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## fran kornbacher

I am very much agree with Blksophisticado's opinion. But let me tell you I am Venezuelan and very proud to say that my grandfather was a black man and my mother has a pretty dark skin (cinnamon) with very nice features she will probably be considered here as a black woman no matter what. In Venezuela she has never been a victim of racism or name calling, but it is very well aceptable to nick name somebody as negrito o negrita. I see what you are saying, people often claim they come from a white blood either; Irish, Italian, European etc. but they never claim to have african blood in them. White people claim that they have dark skin tone because of their Italian or Native American ancestry, they probably don't want to admit that maybe back in the days their ancestros somewere, somehow were messing around with black people. Always claiming they have white blood running thru their veins and not a single drop of black.


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## aleCcowaN

"Alta la voz, y animosa,
como si cantara la flor.
Hoy, caballeros, le canto
a la gente de color"

These lines begin "Milonga del marfil negro" (Black Ivory Milonga) a milonga adapted from "Milonga de los Morenos" by Jorge Luis Borges.

Although it depends on the country, in Latin America we have the worst class of racism, that kind everybody, even who is discriminated, accept; that kind you hide away from the person you discriminate, as you don't like to point the defects (meaning the race) the same way you don't remember their blindness to the blind. You tint your hairs blonde, not black; you don't curl them. You buy cosmetic contact lens to get a beutiful pair of blue, green or even purple eyes, not to get them black as night, with almost no colour distinction between pupil and iris.

"Milonga de los Morenos" [Lines 5-8]

Unlike what was said here, they were British and Dutch who sold African slaves in Spanish speaking lands, a commercial advantage they got as a result of many peace treaties.

Why does this underlying racism survive today? Since Christian Spaniards started to fight Muslims, having blue eyes and blonde or red hair was a quality mark that showed you were not a descendent of the Moor at all; better, you probably were descendent of the noble Visigoths or Swabians. Social estates were organized in America on the basis of races and breed. You had a complex organization of social categories based on 1/16ths of your racial heritage, and families had to expect seven generations to "dilute" an African ancestor and become fully white. But unlike other countries in America, the spring of a negroe and a white wasn't negroe nor slave. The formula here was (1+0)/2=0.5, not the surprising 1 x 0 = 0 of others.

Our independence process, inspired in French Revolution, abolished all these social distinctions, but not what was in the heart of the people. Some of that background survives today in our culture.

"Milonga de los Morenos" [Lines 13-16]

In 1810, about 20% of Buenos Aires population were negroe slaves. How we dealt with the ideals of French Revolution and the heavy economic interests. We have no money to manumit slaves, as British did in 1837, nor economy could do without them. I am quite proud about the way my country took. In 1813 it was declared "la libertad de vientres". Since January 1, 1813 every person born free. No child could be divided from his family. The master could take advantage of his labour provided the children got an education and have an ability to earn their life as free adults. Besides, slaves would get a salary they could spend in pleasures of save it to buy their own freedom. As a consequence, our Constitution, sanctioned in 1853 says [my bad translation] "there are no slaves in Argentina, the few ones that remain are set free by the oath of this Constitution; any slave that step on Argentine soil is freed by the fact of doing so". Not all processes in Spanish America were so civilized, but we certainly avoided killing ourselves in Civil Wars just to have tenth class segregated inhabitants during almost a century.

"Milonga de los Morenos" [Lines 37-40]

What happend to those freed negro slaves. They simply vanished. Or, better explained, they melted within the population and today maybe 10% of Argentinians have at least a trace of African blood. I don't; if it were so, I would be proud of it. People melted, so did culture. African born people did their bit to the common culture. The few mulato or negroes today in Argentina are mainly inmigrants from Brasil, Dominican Republic, Nigeria and Ghana. They will be melted too. Unlike other cultures, here the melting pot is heated since ever.

"Milonga de los Morenos" [Lines 41-44]

All of us have African ancestors. Some people have their genes too.

This is all this blue-eyed faded sun-sensitive whitey has to say by now.

"Alta la voz, y animosa,
como si cantara la flor.
Hoy, caballeros, le canto
a la gente de color"


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## Qcumber

Have you included Zambos in your research? Zambos are the descendants of Black African men and Amerindian women.


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## aleCcowaN

Qcumber said:


> Have you included Zambos in your research? Zambos are the descendants of Black African men and Amerindian women.


Negros, Pardos, Zambos, Mulatos, Cuarterones de Mulato, Cuarterones de Zambo, Quinterones, Moriscos, Mulatos Blancos, etc. were some of the united colours of Benetton that the Laws of the Indies casted.

"Alguien pensó que los negros
no eran ni suyos ni ajenos,
y se formó el Regimiento
de Pardos y de Morenos..."

"Milonga de los Morenos" [Lines 21-28]


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