# "du" or "Sie" in business letter?



## dressageangel

Sorry in advance that this is long - trying to provide enough information to be useful without overdoing it!

I received an email today from the assistant to the president of European company for whom I'd like to work in the U.S., asking permission to pass my name on to a distributor of theirs in the U.S. who is launching a new product line.  The email was short and no details given, but it mentioned the possibility of helping them promote the products in the U.S.

The email was written in English, but I'd like to reply in both English and German, since some of the people cc'd speak German and not much English.  I'm ramping up my German grammar/vocab/studies, but naturally would like this email to be perfekt! 

Am wondering about whether to use "Sie" or "du."  I've met the assistant who wrote the email twice, at a company-related event but not really in a business capacity. It was pretty casual and social - we were with a group of mutual friends talking about different topics.  She wrote her email to me in English, so there's no help there.  

Even though we used "du" when talking in person, I'm leaning towards formality in the email, since I haven't met some of the people in the cc and it's business-related. 

Is that correct, or would that be perceived as unfriendly, since she wrote this email as if it were coming from her, even though she cc'd a few others, and I'd be replying to her (and cc'ing the others)?  Her English is perfect!  My German is not (leider), and we spoke mostly English when we were together, although I think she appreciated my attempts to speak German (this was about six months ago - it's getting better!).

Any suggestions/ corrections to my rough draft, which is below and probably filled with errors, would be greatly appreciated!!!  I'm very happy to be hearing from this company and am hoping to convey the proper amount of enthusiasm and professionalism. 

Vielen Dank. 


Draft: 

Today I returned from being out of town and was delighted to get your email!
Ich bin seit heute wieder zurück, verreist zu sein, und ich war entzückt, Ihre E-Mail zu bekommen (or is "erfreut" preferred?).

"Yes, please feel free to give my name to XYZ Company."
Ja, fühlen Sie sich frei (oder Wenden Sie ?), meinen Kontaktdaten zum XYZ Company zu geben.

Or is "I would be honored for you to forward my contact information to XYZ Company" better?

Ich würde für Sie geehrt, meine Kontaktdaten zum XYZ Company absenden (befördern?).

(I think there are a lot of mistakes there!)

"The products in the group are beautiful and have generated a lot of interest and discussion in the United States."

Die Produkte im die Group sind schön, und haben viel Interesse und Diskussion in den Vereinigten Staaten erzeugt/generiert. (not sure which to use here).

"Thank you (or thank you very much?) for your consideration!"

Danke/Vielen Dank für Ihre Betracht (Beachtung)!

Best regards,


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## Kajjo

Just a short note on Du/Sie: If business partners use the first names in English written emails, then this should not lead to the assumption that it would be acceptable to use first names and Du in German letters. In my point of view, German letters, and German formality in general, rely much more on keeping strict formality. This is a difficult and somewhat dangerous field for everyone!

Usually, I recommend to keep the whole situation in English -- no problems and potential misunderstanding here. 

Kajjo


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## Doppelrahmstufe

Kajjo said:


> Just a short note on Du/Sie: If business partners use the first names in English written emails, then this should not lead to the assumption that it would be acceptable to use first names and Du in German letters. In my point of view, German letters, and German formality in general, rely much more on keeping strict formality. This is a difficult and somewhat dangerous field for everyone!
> 
> Usually, I recommend to keep the whole situation in English -- no problems and potential misunderstanding here.
> 
> Kajjo


 
Du würdest also beim selben Geschäftspartner in einem Mail wechseln von:
"Hello James..." zu "Hallo Herr Bond..."?

Und würdest du es in einer Konversation auch so halten?


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## Suilan

Hallo Frau X (or Hallo *Vorname*)

Da ich bis gestern verreist war, habe ich Ihre/ Deine E-mail erst heute gesehen (or: erhalten; bekommen is rather colloquial), und mich sehr darüber gefreut.

Ja, ich bin sehr dafür, dass Sie/Du meinen Namen und Kontaktinfo der Firma XYZ übermitteln/übermittelst.

Vielen Dank, dass Sie/Du an mich gedacht haben/hast.

Die Produkte der (was ist mit group gemeint?) sind in den U.S.A. sehr beliebt / haben in den U.S.A. großen Interesse geweckt.

(schön sounds strange; context needed: what kind of products? "Diskussion" sounds as if the products have caused controversy.)

Nochmals herzlichen Dank für Ihre/Deine Anfrage. (I couldn't think of any suitable translation for consideration)

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

***

P.S. If you've talked to that person before, in German, addressing her with "du" and first name, I'd tend towards "du" in the email. The use of "Du" should not be changed back to "Sie." Whichever you choose, don't forget to capitalize.


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## Kajjo

Doppelrahmstufe said:


> Du würdest also beim selben Geschäftspartner in einem Mail wechseln von:
> "Hello James..." zu "Hallo Herr Bond..."?
> 
> Und würdest du es in einer Konversation auch so halten?


Solche Situationen sind immer schwierig und erfordern viel Einfühlungsvermögen. Wenn ich auf wissenschaftlichen Tagungen deutsche Wissenschaftler auf Englisch kennenlerne, dann Siezen wir uns hinterher fast immer. Aus englischer Lockerheit darf man nicht auf deutsches Duzen schließen. Aber natürlich gibt es auch Ausnahmen... vieles hängt da auch vom Alter und der gesellschaftlichen Stellung ab.

Kajjo


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## dressageangel

Thank you for the replies!

Kajjo - Yes, I see what you mean about English keeping it much cleaner, with less chance of inadvertently committing a breach of etiquette.  I only thought it'd be nice to have German also, for those who didn't speak much English.  Plus I am working hard to get to the point where I can speak and read in German well, and the more I make that part of my correspondence, the better I think it is for my learning (even though I obviously still need a lot of help!).

Doppelrahmstufe - thanks for that perspective. 

Suilan - thank you for correcting my mistakes! What you wrote makes sense to me, grammatically - I still have a hard time coming up with it myself.

RE: using "Du" and "Sie" - thank you for the input.  That makes sense, too.  Thanks also for capitalization reminder for Du!

RE: using "schön" - the products aren't exactly controversial... they're very very well-made and beautiful, but they're expensive.  So there was discussion on a couple of Internet boards regarding whether people would pay extra for some of the products when other similar fairly high-quality products could be purchased for much less.  

I was trying to convey that I was aware of the discussions that were going on (I kind of doubt the company is, since they're not in the U.S. and very likely don't frequent Internet boards!) and also that I like the products (I do think they're absolutely lovely and well made).  Hope that helps!

Thanks again for the insight!


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## Voxy

Hello dressageangel,

actually I think you should reply the mail with the language 
in which the mail in question is written to. To reply in two languages
(and one of them is naturaly not exactly pristine) can be read 
as sort of an attitude. Don't risk to be percieved as a quirk in 
the first place. (show them later )

If you choose German nontheless you should at least go with the 
"German Sie"  in your answer. You came up with the answer by yourself:
You just havn't met all the cc-people, yet. Just avoid any kind of
confusion, that could distract future relationship.

My two cents


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## Kajjo

I like to emphasize that Voxy's recommendation is very reasonable. Stick with English!

Kajjo


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## gaer

If you are going to write German in anything approaching a formal situation, you should be very fluent in German, and those you are writing to should be very weak in English.

In any other situation, the chance that your attempt to communicate in German may "misfire" is very great. 

Gaer


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## dressageangel

Thanks for all the replies and good advice.   Voxy, I understand what you mean by an "attitude" - I think I'm being helpful and trying to show I am sincere about learning German, but it could easily not come across that way.

English it is, then. 

Meanwhile, I'll study and practice like mad so that when the situation comes up where I'll be speaking/writing in German, it will be a pleasant surprise that I'm able to do so without making a complete mess of the language.  

I appreciate the translation assist, Suilan, even though I won't be using it this time after all.  It's always helpful to see where I made mistakes and how to write correctly.

Thanks again!


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## Hutschi

Hi,

to switch from "Sie" to "Du" in German usually requires a kind of explicit agreement ("Du anbieten"). If you explicitely agreed about "Du", you should use "Du", else "Sie". 
In very formal situations, for example in TV, many use "Sie" sometimes even if they use "Du" elsewere.


"Hallo, Herr Bond" is not a formal style. In this case it should be "Sehr geehrter Herr Müller." However, it might be otherwise in internal usage, if there is an internal tradition.


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## dressageangel

Hutschi - thanks for that input.  Hopefully, I'll be getting to know all of them much better and the question about "Du" and "Sie" won't be a concern (with them, at least) in the future.   I'd feel comfortable using "Du" next time I visit and see her, since it's what I used last time we were together.  

There wasn't really an explicit agreement... I was joining some my friends and she was at the same table when I joined them.  We were all using "Du" and I don't think it even crossed my mind to use Sie , since I was focusing so much on what was being said and my replies.

I hope that wasn't a huge mistake, too!  I wonder - how much shock/distaste is there if someone uses "Du" instead of "Sie" when you first meet them?  Does one always wait to be told, "please use 'Du'"?


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## Suilan

> I hope that wasn't a huge mistake, too! I wonder - how much shock/distaste is there if someone uses "Du" instead of "Sie" when you first meet them? Does one always wait to be told, "please use 'Du'"?


 
1) You don't have to wait to be told, you could also ask: "Darf ich Du sagen?" or, "Sollen wir Du sagen?"

If the other is considerably older than you, or considerably more "important," then you'd better wait.

2) If everyone around the table was using Du, I don't think that your using Du would have been perceived as a mistake. Plus, you're not a native; I think you'd be forgiven even if the person would have preferred Sie.

3) To complicate matters, there are regional differences too! Say, in the Rhineland, people tend to use Du a lot more often, even toward strangers on the street or on the city tram. Plus, very often, coworkers in a company (e.g. everyone on one floor, or in a specific group, or...) say Du to each other.

4) Many people under, say, age 40, don't mind the Du anymore. OK, so you woulnd't walk into a dentist and call him Du, but among coworkers at a table, with most or all of them using Du, I'd say don't worry.


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## Kajjo

dressageangel said:


> I hope that wasn't a huge mistake, too!  I wonder - how much shock/distaste is there if someone uses "Du" instead of "Sie" when you first meet them?  Does one always wait to be told, "please use 'Du'"?


Well, this strongly depends on age and the social group. For example, students or construction workers always use "Du" no matter how shortly they know each other -- but this is group behaviour.

In normal life adults would almost always use "Sie". My mother worked in the same room with a colleague for more than 30 years, getting along nicely and they still used "Sie". For many people, using Sie is simply about formality and good manners, nothing bad at all associated with it.

Should you wait for being offered "Sie"? That again depends on age and social status. If you are younger or lower in hierarchy, you may not offer or ask for "Du"! If you are higher in hierarchy and not  younger, you may offer the "Du", but please consider that many Germans do not like to deny this offer, but still have a strong dislike to say "Du" to someone they are no personal friend of. In general, I recommend not to offer the "Du" to Germans because for foreigners it is difficult to know when it feels right or not. Just wait for them to offer "Du", honestly.

Another point to consider: It is much easier for Germans to argue with each other and have a row when being on "Du" basis rather than on "Sie". Everything feels more formal, more educated, more polite if using "Sie". Personally, I do not like to say "Du" to any business or academic relations and try to reserve "Du" for my real friends and relatives.

Kajjo


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## Voxy

Kajjo said:


> ... , but please consider that many Germans do not like to deny this offer, but still have a strong dislike to say "Du" to someone they are no personal friend of...


Yes, that's true, good point. The desisive point is, it's pretty easy
to settle/go with "Du", but actually it's pretty hard, say almost impossible, 
to return to "Sie" again. I think this is a social trap, in which a lot of 
people stumble into: they go way too quickly and easy with "Du".
Personally, I try to avoid "Du" in business relationships all the way. 

I believe, the more you get used to the "German Sie", the more
you'll appreciate it. 

Voxy


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## Sepia

Doppelrahmstufe said:


> Du würdest also beim selben Geschäftspartner in einem Mail wechseln von:
> "Hello James..." zu "Hallo Herr Bond..."?
> 
> Und würdest du es in einer Konversation auch so halten?


 

There is a difference between switching in the middle of a conversation and writing two language versions. In translations and especially adaptations one should always consider cultural differences. And we tend to stick to last names and "Sie" longer than Americans usually do. Just as Danes and Swedes nowadays are much less formal than the Americans.


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## gaer

My viewpoint:

The Du/Sie problem is a nightmare. If I were equally fluent in German and English (and I wish I were), I would NEVER choose German to converse with anyone else who is also fluent in both _unless_ I were entering into a relationship that was casual and _a bit personal_, one that would all but demand "Du".

There is an additional problem. I've only spoken German with/to people I've liked very much, on rather intimate terms.

I spent a year or so working rather intensely with a German student, early 20s, who was staying in the US to improve his English—very weak. I was almost 40 at the time, but I looked much younger, and he had no idea of my age. We had been practicing, German, English, sometimes a bit of both, and we just "clicked" on the "Du-mode". Since I was older, I never gave it a thought.

One day, when he found out my age, I swear his face turned beet red and he apologized profusely for being rude, saying that I should have been the one to offer him the "privelege" of talking to an older person (and teacher) informally. Obviously this student had very good manners, but I don't think his point of view was all that unusual, although that happened about 20 years ago.

You just never know.

For those of you who are born speaking German, you can't possibly feel how utterly "alien" it is for us to keep in mind this dichotomy.

Imagine this:

"Deine Majestät" (Eure Majestät)

If you don't pick up _*your*_ things, you're grounded.
Just who in the hell do _*you*_ think _*you*_ are!

BUT:

I beg your forgiveness, _*your*_ Majesty.
It is the greatest possible honor to meet _*you*_, _*your*_ Holiness

We are conditioned, from birth, to examine all the things AROUND any form of "you/your" for levels of formality. No matter how hard they try, native English speakers will never safely navigate the potential minefield of the "Du/Sie" problem without thinking every moment. It's like trying to learn to bow like the Japanese. 

Gaer


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## Voxy

gaer said:


> My viewpoint:
> 
> The Du/Sie problem is a nightmare.
> ...
> No matter how hard they try, native English speakers will never safely navigate the potential minefield of the "Du/Sie" problem without thinking every moment.
> ...


Hello Gaer and to every other English native of course

I enjoyed your viewpoint very much. Actually I dare to reassure you
a bit, if that is still possible.  
Well as a rule of thumb just stick with the "Sie" until a/any situation
occurs that gives you both that certain/particular feeling, that you
got somehow "closer" (to he/she) than before that particular situation occured. 
That situation is almost ever something that changes a particular
relationships quality. 

Another rule of thumb:
Reserve the "Du" for close friends and relatives (if they are (still) 
friends).

Also, I want to point out, once and for all, that the german distinction
between "Sie" and "Du", has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of
a distinction between "good guy" and "bad guy", "more sympathy to
someone" and "less sympathy to someone". It doesn't even has something to
do with "being polite/being rude".
That assumption would be a thorough and huge misconception of the 
German language. The german "Sie" is just a "modus operandi" to 
talk to other people. No more no less.

Voxy


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## Kajjo

Voxy said:


> it's pretty easy to settle/go with "Du", but actually it's pretty hard, say almost impossible to return to "Sie" again.


Yes, absolutely right. That is the trap!



> Personally, I try to avoid "Du" in business relationships all the way.


So do I.



> I believe, the more you get used to the "German Sie", the more you'll appreciate it.


 Exactly!

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

Voxy said:


> Rule of thumb: Reserve the "Du" for close friends and relatives.


I agree entirely as mentioned before.



> Also, I want to point out, once and for all, that the german distinction
> between "Sie" and "Du", has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of
> a distinction between "good guy" and "bad guy", "more sympathy to
> someone" and "less sympathy to someone". It doesn't even has something to
> do with "being polite/being rude". That assumption would be a thorough and huge misconception of the  German language. The german "Sie" is just a "modus operandi" to
> talk to other people. No more no less.


Yes, yes, yes.

I have a lot of very nice business or sparetime relationships which over many years are still on "Sie" basis. This really has nothing to do with sympathy, but only with good manners, formality and the German mode of address. 

@Gaer:
I believe that "permanently thinking about the Du/Sie issue" is not at all necessary. Just learn how to use "Sie" properly and stick with it always. The very few exceptions of close, intimate friends will then be easy to cope with. Unfortunately, there are some pseudo-modern persons nowadays that believe that using Du all them time is somewhat "more relaxed" -- they drive me crazy and they are rude in my point of view.

Kajjo


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## gaer

Kajjo said:


> I believe that "permanently thinking about the Du/Sie issue" is not at all necessary. Just learn how to use "Sie" properly and stick with it always. The very few exceptions of close, intimate friends will then be easy to cope with. Unfortunately, there are some pseudo-modern persons nowadays that believe that using Du all them time is somewhat "more relaxed" -- they drive me crazy and they are rude in my point of view.
> Kajjo


Of course I understand what you are saying, and I totally agree with you.

Ironically, I am ONLY talking to people in writing, in Emails and PMs, and never, not once, has any German ever used "Sie" with me.

This makes this environment, Internet communication, a bit schizoid.

Let's imagine, for a moment, that you and I were to have the opportunity to meet, in person. Now, it's almost 100% unlikely that it would happen in Germany, since I have neither the desire nor the money to travel overseas, but suppose you visited my area, South Florida.

Let's furthermore imagine that I would have no trouble speaking to you in German (This is absolutely NOT true, since I have barely spoken a word of German over the last 20 years, but it COULD be true. Right?)

I would still automatically use English. I would default to English because it would avoid the whole Du/Sie thing.

To me, after writing back and forth using informal mode, switching back to formal would not only feel strange, I would feel stiff, uncomfortable and, frankly, a bit insulted.

On the other hand, you might feel pressured by an informal mode, feeling that I am presumptuous, pushy, etc.

Yes, this is a hypothetical situation, but it could very easily happen.

I insist that English is an easier language to communicate in if both parties are not absolutely sure of their relationship to each other. It gives more time to test the waters, to explore the mode of communication, etc.

This does not have much to do with a business letter, but I think our discussion has gone beyond that long ago!

Gaer


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## dressageangel

gaer said:


> This does not have much to do with a business letter, but I think our discussion has gone beyond that long ago!
> 
> Gaer



It's kind of off the subject of the business letter, but since the initial question had to do with "Du" and "Sie", I don't think it strayed too badly. 

Fascinating discussion, though!  And Voxy's comment about this not having to do with good guy/bad guy, etc is illuminating.  

Just curious - the comment about Germans being more formal... do you think would this apply to German-speaking people in Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein? i.e. it's typical of the nature of the language?  Or is that typical of Germans (in general)?

Again, thanks so much for the great insights!  This has been very helpful.


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## gaer

dressageangel said:


> Just curious - the comment about Germans being more formal... do you think would this apply to German-speaking people in Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein? i.e. it's typical of the nature of the language? Or is that typical of Germans (in general)?


Allow me to wander a bit. I write to more people in Germany on a daily basis than to people in all the rest of the world. I love the German language. During a two week stay in Berlin, I can't begin to tell you how wonderful the people were there, how helpful, how encouraging.

But I'm an "all or nothing" type person, and in real life people tend to like me VERY much or dislike me VERY much. I'm intense, I'm honest and I have zero tolerance for superficiality and arrogance.

I used "Sie" with two people in Berlin, both of whom were bossy, bureaucratic and generally stupid women who made the mistake of telling _this American_ what he _could_ and _could not do_. I told both of them to drop dead—with "Sie".

A handful of wonderful people there immediately asked me to use "Du". That was my experience. Perhaps it was because I busted my butt to communicate in German, and that's not at all common for Americans simply on a couple week vacation. I also helped out a family, in Berlin, who had to communicate with a young American who spoke no English. In addition, age is a strong factor, and if someone older is informal, others may follow suit even if the older person is American. Perhaps particularly because the older person is American. I'm not sure. 

Beware: no one else may have had experiences remotely like mine, but I feel that the people I met in Germany were much like me—also "all or nothing people". I liked them, they knew it, and I stayed in some kind of contact with them for many years.

Again, this is what I saw, my personal experience: If they sense arrogance and ignorance on your part—especially when linked to a lack of respect for Germany and its way of life—you may find yourself frozen out of everything. And rightfully so!

If it's obvious that you are serious about Germany and the German language, you will NEVER find so many people eager to help you in any way possible. You'll see that here in this forum, by the way.

Just don't start practicing your German in a business letter! 

I can't speak about other countries, and my experience (actually visiting and talking to people) was limited to Berlin, but in a culture where there is (or was) a whole universe of difference between "an aquaintance" and "a friend" (or the treatment of someone who may become a friend), being offered to converse on the "Du" level, in a personal relationship, is an honor, a privelege, something really meaningful. Or at least that's the way the people I like the most have mostly viewed it.

Anyway, that's my opinion of how it is on a personal level. For all it's worth.

But I'm a person who hates business, so when I'm forced to communicate in this area, I find English 1000 times more convenient for masking my true intentions and feelings, and it's infinitely more safe for avoiding social blunders!

Gaer


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## Kajjo

gaer said:


> Of course I understand what you are saying, and I totally agree with you. Ironically, I am ONLY talking to people in writing, in Emails and PMs, and never, not once, has any German ever used "Sie" with me. This makes this environment, Internet communication, a bit schizoid.


Yes, internet communication has evolved to a separated social group and an associated jargon of its own, using "Du" being one of its fundamentals. In forums and chats rooms "Du" is almost everywhere standard, and I guess this is due to the case that all these technical features have been founded and developed by young people and students -- two social groups who always used "Du" anyway, even in real life, in Germany, just naturally.

Now, all become older and more mature, but -- as always in German -- you cannot break the "Du": Once and forever. No turning back to "Sie". Thus, most forums and chat rooms will probably stay "Du" forever, no matter how old or mature their users are. Interestingly enough, there are some new upcoming forums with "Sie" as mode of communication, e.g. with medicinal and legislative themes. So you see, there is some hope that normal German behaviour will establish itself in _some_ internet communication, too.



> Let's imagine, for a moment, that you and I were to have the opportunity to meet, in person.  I would still automatically use English. I would default to English because it would avoid the whole Du/Sie thing.


Well, no problem here. Since we both talk and write in "Du" since some years, we would stay with "Du" automatically. Again: No turning back, even for penpals.



> To me, after writing back and forth using informal mode, switching back to formal would not only feel strange, I would feel stiff, uncomfortable and, frankly, a bit insulted.


Yes, and you would be right. Turning back from "Du" to "Sie" is almost impossible and always carries a connotation of insult or severe disruption of social connections.

Kajjo


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## Hutschi

Hi, 

it is an unconvenient situation, especially in letters. I often was not certain what to use in such situations and often avoided both "Du" and "Sie" in letters or, sometimes, in a forum, too. It gave me sometimes some headache, especially, if some used "du" and some not. I waited and used the same form as the sender.

This mutual (reciprocal) form can help you, if you are the second and in a similar position.


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## Kajjo

Ablativ hat noch einen unterhaltsamen Link mit Stil-Tipps zum Duzen gefunden, den ich Euch nicht vorenthalten möchte:

Duzen

Wie immer bei Hinweisen zu Stil und Etikette sollte man nicht jedes Detail allzu ernst nehmen, aber prinzipiell liegt Herr Fenner schon richtig.

Kajjo


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## gaer

Kajjo said:


> Yes, internet communication has evolved to a separated social group and an associated jargon of its own, using "Du" being one of its fundamentals. In forums and chats rooms "Du" is almost everywhere standard, and I guess this is due to the case that all these technical features have been founded and developed by young people and students -- two social groups who always used "Du" anyway, even in real life, in Germany, just naturally.


Right. The whole problem of what "mode" to use when addresing people with pronouns exists in German, Spanish and many other countries.

English is simply different. Certainly in the time Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, people were very polite to each other, at least as polite as people are to each other in Germany today, but it was not reflected in pronouns. To find that in English, you have to go back to a much earlier time.

I would say that the most unusual part of the kind of communication we use here is the use of nicknames that show absolutely nothing about our real names. Then, if we begin communicating in PMs or in email, we find out LATER about real names. We do not even have the opportunity to say Mr. X, Mrs. Y, Ms. Z.


> Now, all become older and more mature, but -- as always in German -- you cannot break the "Du": Once and forever. No turning back to "Sie". Thus, most forums and chat rooms will probably stay "Du" forever, no matter how old or mature their users are.


Again, it much the same way with names. Once you are on a first name basis with someone, reversing the whole thing, switchin to Mr./Ms. is equally strange. It just doesn't work.


> Interestingly enough, there are some new upcoming forums with "Sie" as mode of communication, e.g. with medicinal and legislative themes. So you see, there is some hope that normal German behaviour will establish itself in _some_ internet communication, too.


In English, the equivalent would be to start out with Mr./Ms. At some point, in private, people might say, "Call me __." This would be very similar to switching from Sie to Du.

The tendency of all people in the US to address each other by first name, when they hardly know each other, has started more recently than you might think. I would never, for instance, think of addressing the parents of my students, even those MUCH younger than me, with a first name—unless the parent specifically asked me to.

Gaer


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## Voxy

gaer said:


> ...
> Just don't start practicing your German in a business letter!
> ...


LOL - I couldn't have said it better. 



> I can't speak about other countries, and my experience (actually visiting and talking to people) was limited to Berlin, but in a culture where there is (or was) a whole universe of difference between "an aquaintance" and "a friend" (or the treatment of someone who may become a friend), being offered to converse on the "Du" level, in a personal relationship, is an honor, a privelege, something really meaningful.
> ...


Well, Berlin is clearly a universe of its own. Though, I wouldn't say New 
York represents the States either, if you know what I mean. What I want to 
say is, with all due respect (and I respect you very much Gaer, you know that), 
you are a little bit exaggerating, are you not? 

Anyway, I'd offer you my "Du" in a heartbeat, if we'd meet in person.

Voxy


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## gaer

Voxy said:


> Well, Berlin is clearly a universe of its own. Though, I wouldn't say New
> York represents the States either, if you know what I mean.


Yes. 


> What I want to
> say is, with all due respect (and I respect you very much Gaer, you know that),
> you are a little bit exaggerating, are you not?


Actually, I was not exaggerating, but please remember that I was in West Berlin, before the "Wall" came down. I can't go into details—it would destroy the topic—but my two week "trip" could very easily have been a nightmare. I spent a huge amount of my time in the home of a family that had absolutely no obligation to do a thing for me. That family made a friend for life. 

Voxy, the only time I ever used German for official correspondence was in reference to books I had ordered. This was a bit personal, since the lady who helped me did me a huge favor. (Another long story…) 

I used "Sie" and made sure what I wrote was checked by a couple people I trusted before sending it—using snail mail. 


> Anyway, I'd offer you my "Du" in a heartbeat, if we'd meet in person.


<blushing> 

Gaer


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