# pronunciation: Will Merry marry Mary?



## spodulike

Hello

If the hobbit decides to propose to his girlfriend we could say,  "Will Merry marry Mary?"

I was once told that in US English these three M words are indistinguishable in pronunciation. Is this true?

P.S. In British English they all sound different.


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## Loob

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before: you might like to try a search

Here's Wiki on the subject: 





> One of the best-known pre-rhotic mergers is known as the _Mary-marry-merry merger_,[4] which consists of the mergers before intervocalic /r/ of /æ/ and /ɛ/ with historical /eɪ/.[5] This merger is quite widespread in the American West, Inland North, Midland, and in Canada (cf. sample 1). A merger of _Mary_ and _merry_, while keeping _marry_ distinct, is found in the South and as far north as Baltimore, Maryland, and Wilmington, Delaware; it is also found among Anglophones in Montreal.


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## Aidanriley

Yup, exactly the same here. I'd be curious to hear the difference in the UK.


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## Loob

Here's one earlier discussion, which also links to the Wiki article: see the latter part of General pronunciation: differences in AE/BE vowels*.*


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## Aidanriley

Spod-
I can't reply to your PM because your inbox is full, but to answer your question, they sound like méri (but not quite).


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## ewhite

In New York City, they are three distinct sounds.


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## JulianStuart

Acapela  and AT&T let you type text in and hear it in different voices which can be helpful for comparisons like this.  At AT&T compare Crystal (US - almost completely merged) with Charles where Marry is very distinct and Merry and Mary differ mainly in length.


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## cuchuflete

ewhite said:


> In New York City, they are three distinct sounds.



They were different when I lived in Maryland, and in Pennsylvania, and in N.Y., and in Connecticut, and in New Hampshire.  They remain distinct in Maine.  

That said, in some regional varieties of AE, they tend to merge.


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## Aidanriley

I figured that might be the case. West coast and east coast accents are pretty distinct from each other.


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## missMD

These words sound the same to me. Do they really have the same pronunciation or is it just because of my non-English ears? What is the biggest difference in their pronunciations and how to properly pronounce them?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

It depends a great deal on where in the United States you are.  In some places, all three are pronounced alike.  In other places, two are identical while the third is different.  In my part of the country, each is different from the other two.  It is therefore possible that the people you hear speaking really are saying the same thing -- which would also mean that it is unlikely that you are in the northeastern United States.


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## JulianStuart

As GWB notes, it depends.  This is a famous variation and you might find this entry in wikipedia helpful (and for other vowel issues!)


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## 涼宮

As Green said it depends upon the region, but it seems there is something general about their pronunciation, if you know IPA, it's really helpful with those little details.

Mary can be pronounced / ˈmeri / or / ˈmeəri/

Marry  / ˈmæri/ (It uses a schwa)

Merry / ˈmeri/

In a nutshell, Merry and Mary are the same, but marry is quite different because of the schwa. If you do not know IPA, I suggest you to learn it, it helps a lot for pronunciation and you can take the most of a dictionary  In English a single vowel can change the whole meaning, like cut /kʌt/ vs cat /kæt/


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## panjandrum

In my variant, the three words sound quite different.

Marry is /ˈmari/ - the /a/ sound as in trap.

Merry is /ˈmɛri/ - the /e/ sound as in pet, ten.

Mary is /ˈmɛːri/ - the /a/ sound as in fairy.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

panjandrum said:


> In my variant, the three words sound quite different.
> 
> Marry is /ˈmari/ - the /a/ sound as in trap.
> 
> Merry is /ˈmɛri/ - the /e/ sound as in pet, ten.
> 
> Mary is /ˈmɛːri/ - the /a/ sound as in fairy.



The same is true in my variant of English as well, whch means that around here, "merry" and "Mary" are certainly *not* the same.


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## Parla

> In New York City, they are three distinct sounds.


In reply to EWhite (post #6): That hasn't been my experience. I say (and hear) "Merry" and "Mary" as identical (both rhyming with "fairy"), "marry" as different (rhyming with "carry"). But perhaps my perception's colored by my own pronunciation. (My childhood was spent in southeastern Pennsylvania.)


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## Sprache

They're all homophones in my accent. In fact I can neither produce nor even hear the difference between "merry" and "Mary" in British English accents, though "marry" is distinct if I pay attention.


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## JulianStuart

I grew up in the south of England and have the following distinctions.
*Mary* matches *vary, fairy, scarey* (a = the longer-lasting vowel from mare , care, hairy, etc)
*Marry* matches *carry, parry*, (e = short vowel of bad, patty, fat)
*Merry* matches *very, berry* (e = short vowel of bed, petty etc)

I've been aware of the various mergers but only in terms of these three specific words.  If the three question words Mary, Marry and Merry are homophones in your speech, *are, *for example, *scarey, carry and berry also homophones*?


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## ribran

Julian,

Yes, for me, they all have the same vowel sound.


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## JulianStuart

Thanks for that - would you say the vowel  like the vowel in bad, bed or bare (or more than one of those  )?


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## mathman

Here's another vote for the three words sounding quite different (grew up in eastern PA, have lived in CT and MA most of my adult life). I'm actually surprised that other Americans are saying they sound the same.


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## natkretep

涼宮 said:


> In a nutshell, Merry and Mary are the same, but marry is quite different because of the schwa.



For those who make a distinction, the important point is not the schwa (which tends to be used less in contemporary BrE pronunciations), but the length. Short vowel for _merry_ and long vowel for _Mary_. Similarly,_ ferry and fairy._ (This is how I distinguish between them anyway.)


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## Adge

JulianStuart said:


> I've been aware of the various mergers but only in terms of these three specific words.  If the three question words Mary, Marry and Merry are homophones in your speech, *are, *for example, *scarey, carry and berry also homophones*?



The three M's are all homophones to me, as are _scary_, _carry_, and _berry_. They all have the same vowel as _bare_, which I think means they all sound like your pronunciation of _Mary_ (with the long vowel).


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## JulianStuart

Thank you, adge , for closing my loop


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## ribran

JulianStuart said:


> Thank you, adge , for closing my loop



Yes, _bare _​for me, too, although I have occasionally noticed that when speaking with my mother, who grew up on the East Coast, I very naturally use different vowels for _Mary_, _merry_ and _marry._ Many of my friends can't hear the differences between the three.


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## stormwreath

Sprache said:


> They're all homophones in my accent. In fact I can neither produce nor even hear the difference between "merry" and "Mary" in British English accents, though "marry" is distinct if I pay attention.


Can you hear the difference between "ferry" and "fairy"? The vowel sound in BE is identical to merry/Mary.


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## cyberpedant

s





JulianStuart said:


> I've been aware of the various mergers but only in terms of these three specific words.  If the three question words Mary, Marry and Merry are homophones in your speech, *are, *for example, *scarey, carry and berry also homophones*?



For me (New York City native), they are distinct: "Scary Mary, marry Carrie, merry berry." I had no idea that anyone could pronounce them with the same vowel until the subject came up in linguistics class.


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## natkretep

For anyone who's interested in the accent map of the USA, have a look at this page, which also gives the results of a survey of 11,422 respondents:


> all 3 are the same (56.88%)
> all 3 are different (17.34%)


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## pob14

I'm a lifelong resident of the central US. All the words on this thread are exactly the same to me except for the initial consonant, as well as Larry, Jerry, hairy, Derry, terry, bury, very, vary . . . and anything else I can think of. I had no idea anyone pronounced them differently.

Edit: Just looked at the map posted by natkretep. I see that Chicago (or nearby) is marked on _all_ of them. That's Chicago for you.


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## missMD

Parla said:


> In reply to EWhite (post #6): That hasn't been my experience. I say (and hear) "Merry" and "Mary" as identical (both rhyming with "fairy"), "marry" as different (rhyming with "carry"). But perhaps my perception's colored by my own pronunciation. (My childhood was spent in southeastern Pennsylvania.)



I've always pronounced Kerry and carry the same


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## JamesM

missMD said:


> I've always pronounced Kerry and carry the same



So does a large portion of the U.S. population.    You're not alone.  Many East Coast (U.S.) accents have the distinction but large portions of the Midwest and all of the West (as far as I know) don't.

Back to the original question, I have a friend who grew up in New York who clearly distinguishes between merry, Mary and marry.  In that order it goes from a tighter, more "eh"-like sound (to my ear) to almost the same sound as the "a" in cat for marry.  She demonstrates the same distinction in ferry, fairy and O'Farrell.


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## JulianStuart

missMD said:


> I've always pronounced Kerry and carry the same


 


JamesM said:


> So does a large portion of the U.S. population.    You're not alone.  Many East Coast (U.S.) accents have the distinction but large portions of the Midwest and all of the West (as far as I know) don't.


Does this vowel sound extend to caries as in tooth decay = carries?


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## JamesM

I don't know.  I can ask her.  We don't talk much about caries. 

I'm sure she would say the name "Kerry" differently from "carry".  She has lived in California for the last 30 years but her New York accent still carries on.  It's softer than when I first met her but it's still very distinct.


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## Chasint

spodulike said:


> ...If the hobbit decides to propose to his girlfriend we could say, "Will Merry marry Mary?"
> I was once told that in US English these three M words are indistinguishable in pronunciation. Is this true?
> P.S. In British English they all sound different.


Here's what the Harvard Dialect Survey, which concluded in 2003 says about the pronunciation of these three words across the US.

*How do you pronounce Mary/merry/marry?
*Harvard Dialect Survey, which concluded in 2003 (Vaux, Bert and Scott Golder. 2003. The Harvard Dialect Survey. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Linguistics Department). 
http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_15.html

It shows that more than half of US citizens think that all three sounds are the same.

Edit - Apologies to natkretep who I now see made exactly the same point in #28


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## Sabretooth

They all sound the same in my dialect of AE.


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## Dale Texas

I'm from the NE USA (Pennsylvania, NYC) and pronounce in all cases the sound as that in "fairy" and I really do not hear and differences in any other AE speakers, or in BE speakers for that matter.


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## Chasint

Dale Texas said:


> I'm from the NE USA (Pennsylvania, NYC) and pronounce in all cases the sound as that in "fairy" and I really do not hear and differences in any other AE speakers, or in BE speakers for that matter.


In RP British English, only "Mary" rhymes with "fairy".  "Merry" has a similar vowel sound but much shorter and "marry" has a different vowel altogether.

It makes me wonder whether Prince Harry sounds to you like Prince Hairy !!!!


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## Dale Texas

Yes, Prince Hairy, same sound, and Harry was my father's name, and despite having read previous threads on this and then subsequently having listened super carefully to BE speakers I _still_  do not hear any distinction!


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## Chasint

Dale Texas said:


> Yes, Prince Hairy, same sound, and Harry was my father's name, and despite having read previous threads on this and then subsequently having listened super carefully to BE speakers I _still_  do not hear any distinction!


This is fascinating!

I wonder if you would be willing to try a small experiment?

Could I ask you to listen to the AE and BE pronunciations of 'carry' as provided by our in house dictionary. http://www.wordreference.com/definition/carry.  To my ears they sound completely different and the US pronunciation almost rhymes with British 'fairy'. Would you also mind listening to 'fairy'? http://www.wordreference.com/definition/fairy.  This time the two variants have a similar vowel sound to my ears but the BE vowel is much more drawn out (and that is the difference between BE 'merry' and 'mary').

Finally, it is a bit more of a chore because you have to switch between the above links, but can you hear a difference between BE vowels in 'carry' and 'fairy'?

If you were kind enough to carry out the experiment, did you hear any differences?

Thanks


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## JamesM

I definitely hear a difference between "carry" and "fairy" in the BE recordings.  There is a tiny difference between the AE versions, not enough to me to call it an actual difference -- but this is only one AE accent.  In New York or Boston you would often hear a distinct difference.

In fact, yesterday we were out with a couple who grew up on opposite coasts.  The woman, who grew up in New York, burst out laughing when her husband said, "The Falkirk Wheel was designed mainly to carry ferries."  The vowels were the same.  She heard, "The Falkirk Wheel was designed mainly to carry fairies".


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## MarcB

I am from AE North East all three are different but as one travels north the three are the same.


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## PaulQ

ribran said:


> Julian,
> 
> Yes, for me, they all have the same vowel sound.


So in the song, "Distant Drums" by Jim Reeves, the chorus





> So Mary marry me, let's not wait
> Let's share all the time we can before it's too late
> Love me now for now is all the time there may be
> If you love me Mary, Mary marry me


is a mystery to you?


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## RM1(SS)

Biffo said:


> Could I ask you to listen to the AE and BE pronunciations of 'carry' as provided by our in house dictionary. http://www.wordreference.com/definition/carry.  To my ears they sound completely different and the US pronunciation almost rhymes with British 'fairy'. Would you also mind listening to 'fairy'? http://www.wordreference.com/definition/fairy.  This time the two variants have a similar vowel sound to my ears but the BE vowel is much more drawn out (and that is the difference between BE 'merry' and 'mary').
> 
> Finally, it is a bit more of a chore because you have to switch between the above links, but can you hear a difference between BE vowels in 'carry' and 'fairy'?



Listening carefully to the words pronounced singly, as they are there, I can hear a difference.  I doubt I would notice a difference in the middle of an ordinary conversation, though.

Add me to the list of Midwesterners who have the full merger - I use the _Mary_ vowel in all of the words given as examples in this thread.


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## Dale Texas

I finally had the chance to follow Biffo's suggestion and listened to the house dictionary pronunciatons, and felt I was forcing myself to hear a difference where I wouldn't notice one in conversation at all, as RM1 has stated above. That said, while the the BE vowel _here in this recording _seems more extended--I hear differences very well under duress to pass the course --I otherwise would have attributed that to an individual's manner of speaking, not to an AE/BE difference. I could speculate the BE vowel also to my ear could be on some sort of slippery slope vowel elision between carry-curry, but so much toward the first as to make no semantic difference whatsoever. Maybe I can find some BE speakers here in El Paso and can pay them $5 just to pronounce these vowels.


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## london calling

Fascinating thread!

My pronunciation is standard BE and I therefore pronounce all three words differently (no surprise there). Out of curiosity, however,  I checked it out on the Internet I discovered that the US pronunciation of Mary, marry and merry has been the object of  great discussion. I thought you might be interested in reading an article (source: huffingtonpost.com - here) about Dialect Maps in the US: one of the questions that was asked was "How do you pronounce Mary/merry/merry?" As you will see one, the vast majority said there was no difference.

@Dale. Give me $5 and your phone number and you're on!


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## Chasint

Dale Texas said:


> I finally had the chance to follow Biffo's suggestion and listened to the house dictionary pronunciatons, and felt I was forcing myself to hear a difference where I wouldn't notice one in conversation at all, as RM1 has stated above. That said, while the the BE vowel _here in this recording _seems more extended--I hear differences very well under duress to pass the course --I otherwise would have attributed that to an individual's manner of speaking, not to an AE/BE difference. I could speculate the BE vowel also to my ear could be on some sort of slippery slope vowel elision between carry-curry, but so much toward the first as to make no semantic difference whatsoever. Maybe I can find some BE speakers here in El Paso and can pay them $5 just to pronounce these vowels.


Maybe you should ask them to say "Will Mary Murray marry Merry?"   All those sounds are different in RP English!  (and it's a dollar a word!)


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## JamesM

PaulQ said:


> So in the song, "Distant Drums" by Jim Reeves, ("If you love me, Mary, Mary, marry me" the chorus is a mystery to you?



No more than a Brit would be confounded by "The miner bought the minor a mynah."   (The last word isn't a homophone to the other two in AE.)


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## Chasint

JamesM said:


> No more than a Brit would be confounded by "The miner bought the minor a mynah."   (The last word isn't a homophone to the other two in AE.)


Absolutely true. All those sound identical to me.


____________________________________________________________________________________________________
EDIT On second thoughts I would pronounce the "r" in "minor" because it precedes a vowel.

Given the sentence "The miner showed the minor the mynah." I would pronounce them all the same. If it was recorded and then played back months later, I wouldn't know exactly what I had said.


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## Palabrarista

Hi everyone,

I want to know whether the pronunciation of these 4 words, in American English, is the same. As far as I know, the vowel in "marry" is the same as in "apple," so I can distinguish "marry" very well from "very," "merry," and "Mary." However, the other three words sound exactly the same to me, as if they all shared the same vowel. I mean, words like "very," "merry," "Mary," sound the same to my ear(at least in American English). Is the vowel in these three words pronounced the same?


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## Loob

Hello Palabrarista

See this previous thread: pronunciation: Will Merry marry Mary? _{EDIT: link removed as threads now merged.}
_
(I found it by putting _*marry mary*_ into the search box at the top of the page.)


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## perpend

"marry" in American English doesn't have the same "a" sound as in "apple".

All four sound the same to me: marry ... merry ... Mary ... very


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## JamesM

perpend said:


> "marry" in American English doesn't have the same "a" sound as in "apple".
> 
> All four sound the same to me: marry ... merry ... Mary ... very



It does for some Americans, perpend.   I have a friend from New York and "marry" has the same "a" as "apple" for her.  

Personally, they're all the same for me, but as I understand it the merger of the sounds increases as you move west in the U.S.


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Hullo.

Isn't it something like this?

BE (RP):

*marry* mæri 
*merry* meri 
*Mary*  meəri

GA:

*marry* meri, mæri
*merry* meri 
*Mary*  meri

GS


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## Chasint

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> ...Isn't it something like this?
> 
> BE (RP):
> 
> *marry* mæri
> *merry* meri
> *Mary*  meəri
> 
> ...


 That looks about right for my version of BE. I can't speak for other regions.


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## natkretep

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> BE (RP):
> 
> *marry* mæri
> *merry* meri
> *Mary*  meəri


Some might have a long monophthong for _Mary_ /mɛːri/. The length is also crucial for some Scottish pronunciations:

*marry* mari 
*merry* meri 
*Mary* meːri


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## JamesM

In some regions in the U.S. I believe it is:

*marry* mæri
*merry* mɛri
*Mary* meɪri


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## RM1(SS)

A few questions for those who don't pronounce _merry_, _Mary_, and _marry_ the same:

Do you differentiate between _berry_, _Barry_, and _bury_?
How about _ferry_ and _fairy_?
_Harry_ and _hairy_?
Do IrE speakers have different pronunciations for _Derry_ and _dairy_?
Or for _Kerry_ and _Carey_?

(I have the full marry/merry/Mary merger - I use the "Mary" vowel in all of those words.)


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## JulianStuart

RM1(SS) said:


> A few questions for those who don't pronounce _merry_, _Mary_, and _marry_ the same:
> 
> Do you differentiate between _berry_, _Barry_, and _bury_?
> How about _ferry_ and _fairy_?
> _Harry_ and _hairy_?
> Do IrE speakers have different pronunciations for _Derry_ and _dairy_?
> Or for _Kerry_ and _Carey_?
> 
> (I have the full marry/merry/Mary merger - I use the "Mary" vowel in all of those words.)


For me:
ferry = berry = bury (like bed) but not like Barry.  Barry=Harry (like cat).
Hairy = fairy = Mary (~like air)
(Is Mary like air for you?)


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## natkretep

Most accents will have identical pronunciations for _berry_ and _bury_.

_Fairy, hairy _and _dairy_ have long vowels unlike the others.


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## Mahantongo

RM1(SS) said:


> A few questions for those who don't pronounce _merry_, _Mary_, and _marry_ the same:


I am among those Americans (specifically, from New York City) who pronounces all three differently, so I will give my answer.



> Do you differentiate between _berry_, _Barry_, and _bury_?


As others have said, _bury_ and _berry_ are the same, and rhyme with_ merry_.  _Barry_ is different, and has the vowel of _Harry_ -- or of _cat_.  Perhaps I am in error here, but if I say the name of Bury St. Edmunds in England, I don't prononce it as "berry", but instead rhyme it with _hurry_.  Perhaps a British member could confirm (or correct) that?



> How about _ferry_ and _fairy_?


Different.  _Ferry_ has the vowel of "_get_",_ fairy_ that of "_air"_.



> _Harry_ and _hairy_?


Again, they are different; _Harry_ has the vowel of "cat", and _hairy_ that of "air"



> Do IrE speakers have different pronunciations for _Derry_ and _dairy_?


I distinguish between them both.



> Or for _Kerry_ and _Carey_?


Again, they are different.  _Kerry_ rhymes with _merry_, although I have heard two different pronunciations for _Carey_, with some people rhyming it with _Mary_, and others with -- _marry_!


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## panjandrum

RM1(SS) said:


> ...
> Do you differentiate between _berry_, _Barry_, and _bury_?


Berry and bury are the same, and distinct from Barry.


> How about _ferry_ and _fairy_?


Ferry has a shorter vowel than fairy.  Ferry is like merry, fairy like Mary.
_



			Harry
		
Click to expand...

_


> and _hairy_?


Harry is like marry, hairy like Mary.


> Do IrE speakers have different pronunciations for _Derry_ and _dairy_?


Yes. Derry is like merry, dairy like Mary.


> Or for _Kerry_ and _Carey_?


Kerry like merry, Carey like Mary.

The comments above are based on my particular variant of BE/IrE pronunciation.


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## JulianStuart

Mahantongo said:


> Perhaps I am in error here, but if I say the name of Bury St. Edmunds in England, I don't prononce it as "berry", but instead rhyme it with _hurry_.  Perhaps a British member could confirm (or correct) that?


I've always called it "Berry St Edmunds" and Collins dictionary and wikipedia feel the same way.  Howjsay also uses the berry version.  There is, however, a town called Bury near Manchester and some say that one  Burry like furry, or often just B'ry, like the -bury at the end of many other names. (Saulsbri= Salisbury)


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## RM1(SS)

JulianStuart said:


> Is Mary like air for you?


Yes.


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## ewhite

panjandrum said:


> Kerry like merry, Carey like Mary.



My maiden name was Carey, and it always irks me to hear it mispronounced as Carry. I would repeat Carey, and the rogue mispronouncer would repeat, Yes, Carry. I notice that the only two famous Careys I can think of (Hugh, ex-governor of NY, and Mariah) both pronounce it correctly.


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## pob14

ewhite said:


> My maiden name was Carey, and it always irks me to hear it mispronounced as Carry. I would repeat Carey, and the rogue mispronouncer would repeat, Yes, Carry. I notice that the only two famous Careys I can think of (Hugh, ex-governor of NY, and Mariah) both pronounce it correctly.


I can't recall ever hearing either Hugh's or Mariah's name pronounced as anything other than "Carry;" how do you pronounce it?


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## ewhite

Well, Hugh and Mariah and I all pronounce it to rhyme with hairy or fairy or nary.


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## pob14

ewhite said:


> Well, Hugh and Mariah and I all pronounce it to rhyme with hairy or fairy or nary.


Ah. Well, as I said a few years ago in this thread, those all rhyme with "carry" for me.  I wonder if it's "fairy" or "carry" that I say differently from you.


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## Pedro y La Torre

panjandrum said:


> Yes. Derry is like merry, dairy like Mary.
> Kerry like merry, Carey like Mary.
> 
> The comments above are based on my particular variant of BE/IrE pronunciation.



True for me too. I've have never heard of anyone who pronounces Derry like dairy. Perhaps a strong Ballymena accent might be in the same ballpark.



panjandrum said:


> Berry and bury are the same, and distinct from Barry.



I'm a little confused here though, do you pronounce berry and bury in the same manner?


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## Andygc

Bury as in internment or Bury St Edmunds pronounced by me as berry. Bury as in Lancashire I say with a 'u', not an 'e' sound, similar to hurry.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Pedro y La Torre said:


> I'm a little confused here though, do you pronounce berry and bury in the same manner?



Actually, when I think about it, I don't know why this confused me. I pronounce them in the same manner too. ''Bury'', the town, however receives special treatment as per Andygc's post.


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## wandle

spodulike said:


> "Will Merry marry Mary?"
> I was once told that in US English these three M words are indistinguishable in pronunciation


In the UK, we can say that the vowel sounds in the last three words of each line correspond:

_Gloomy Harry (very scary)
Wants to marry merry Mary._


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