# a packet of.../a bag of...



## Nino83

Hello everyone. 

How do you say "packet" in Japanese? 

I bought a packet of pasta/biscuits. パスタ・ビスケットを一箱買った。 Pasuta/bisuketto o hito-hako katta. 
The WR dictionary lists other words: パック 、１箱 、1包み. Are they interchangeable? Can I say "ビスケットを１パック・１箱・１包み買った"? 

Some example of packet: flexible, rigid. 

I bought a bag of apples. "りんごを一袋買った"? 
Is there any difference between this and this? 

And if it is a net like this one?  

Thank you


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## DaylightDelight

If it's a rectangular rigid box, then it's １箱 /hito-hako/ (your rigid packet example).
For any type of bags like your examples of apples (including your flexible packet example and net example), I'd use １袋 /hito-fukuro/
In Japan they often sell fruits in plastic boxes like this:



 


We say １パック /hito-pakku/, /ichi-pakku/, /wan-pakku/ for these. /ichi/ and /wan/ (Japanese rendering of English "one") do not happen with 箱 or 袋.


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## Nino83

Thank you, DD.
These classifiers (箱 and 袋) are the only ones (other than 一人，二人，つ，日) that use the native Japanese numbers (are there other ones?).
Are they  (箱 and 袋) considered classifiers or are they nouns?


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## DaylightDelight

By "native Japanese numbers" do you mean ひと, ふた, etc.?
No, there are others, such as 包み /tsutsumi/ (lit. package) , 山 /yama/ (lit. heap) and つながり /tsunagari/ (lit. series) right off the top of my head.  I've just realized that they are all "collective" classifiers, including 箱 and 袋 (when we say ひと箱 we are actually concerned with the content rather than the box itself.) though I don't know what it signifies 


Nino83 said:


> Are they (箱 and 袋) considered classifiers or are they nouns?


Hmm, now that you mention it, I suppose they are more of nouns than classifiers.
Most of them can be paraphrased as XX がひとつ/ふたつ; 箱がひとつ, 袋がふたつ, 包みがみっつ, 山がよっつ, つながりがいつつ.  This can not be said for usual classifiers; 個がひとつ, 杯がふたつ, 本がみっつ


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## Nino83

DaylightDelight said:


> they are all "collective" classifiers


Yes, indeed. They're a bit different from "sortal" classifiers. 
Is it the same other quantity measures like １粁 and １瓩? How are they pronounced? _Ikkiromētoru_ and _ikkiroguramu_ or _hito-kiromētoru_ and _hito-kiroguramu_?


DaylightDelight said:


> Most of them can be paraphrased as XX がひとつ/ふたつ; 箱がひとつ, 袋がふたつ, 包みがみっつ, 山がよっつ, つながりがいつつ.


Interesing! 


DaylightDelight said:


> 包み /tsutsumi/ (lit. package)


_Tsutsumi_ is used expecially for gifts and presents? This is what I found in google images for the word "包み". 

Thank you


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## DaylightDelight

Nino83 said:


> How are they pronounced? _Ikkiromētoru_ and _ikkiroguramu_ or _hito-kiromētoru_ and _hito-kiroguramu_?


They are /ikkiro/ or /ichi-kiro/.



Nino83 said:


> _Tsutsumi_ is used expecially for gifts and presents?


Not particularly.  It is used for things wrapped with sheets of paper or cloths.


 



There seems to be a general rule that classifiers originated from native Japanese vocabulary tend to take native numbers (助数詞 - Wikipedia).  This rule also agrees with loaned classifiers such as パック (=pack), カップ (=cup) and ピース (=piece); we can say ワンパック, ワンカップ and ワンピース with them.

So the collective-ness of classifiers was not the matter here. There are non-collective classifiers to go with native Japanese numbers: 一張り /hito-hari/ (tent), 一坪 /hito-tsubo/ (unit of area), 一棟 /hito-mune/ (building), etc.


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## Nino83

Ah, ok, that's clear! 
Thank you again


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> Are they  (箱 and 袋) considered classifiers or are they nouns?


No. That's 接尾, suffix.


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## Nino83

frequency said:


> That's 接尾, suffix.


Hi frequency.
I'm wondering if they are something more than simple classifiers, because they can be utilized as nouns.
For example, can we say  この袋の中にりんごがあります。 or この箱の中にパスタがあります。?
And what about 杯の中にお茶があります。 and カップの中にお茶があります。? Are they both possible?


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## frequency

That's just a matter of category. If you say 一袋, this is a combination of numeral + suffix, according to that page.



Nino83 said:


> because they can be utilized as nouns.
> For example, can we say  この袋の中にりんごがあります。 or この箱の中にパスタがあります。?


Wonderful. 袋 and 箱 are nouns―the two are utilized as nouns. This is what you're always doing in the languages you understand. lol!



> 杯の中にお茶があります。 and カップの中にお茶があります。? Are they both possible?


カップ is utilized as a noun, too. 杯 isn't impossible, but カップ is better.

These two are grammatically correct and possible, but you can say カップにお茶が入っています。, unfortunately. The カップ is still a noun in this expression.


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## Nino83

Thank you!


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