# EN: thy / thine



## FromMarseille

How could you explain the difference between 'Thy' and 'Thine' (and do not tell me please that there is not!!)?


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## pbx

my : mon, ma
mine : le mien.

Même chose à mon avis.


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## Alipeeps

In my experience, the two could pretty much be used interchangeably... in, for example, Shakespeare's time, the language was still developing and changing greatly and both grammar and spelling were less hard and rigid rules and more personal preferences - even Shakespeare spelled his own name differently on different occasions! 

So sometimes the same writer would use both thy and thine to mean your:

E.g. "If thou wilt ease thine heart" or "In the garden of thy heart"

I would say that perhaps "thy" is a slightly more modern usage, in that it is what we nowadays tend to use when trying to write in an "old-fashioned"/medieval style.


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## GEmatt

They are both possessive pronouns. Footnotes in Wikipedia mention that,





> In a deliberately archaic style, the possessive forms are used as the genitive before words beginning with a vowel sound (eg _thine eyes_) similar to how _an_ is used instead of _a_ in a similar situation. This practice is irregularly followed in the King James Bible, but is more regular in earlier literature, such as the Early Modern English texts of Geoffrey Chaucer. Otherwise, _thy_ and _thine_ correspond with _my_ and _mine_; that is, the first is attributive (_my/thy goods_,) and the second predicative (_they are mine/thine_). Shakespear pokes fun at this custom when the character Bottom says "mine eyen" in _A Midsummer Night's Dream_


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## Jack Grant

FromMarseille said:


> How could you explain the difference between 'Thy' and 'Thine' (and do not tell me please that there is not!!)?



They are both archaic, and supposedly correspond to my/mine. The choice between thy and thine I believe depends on what word follows. This is just my opinion - I have no references to back it up. If the following word begins with a vowel, use thine for a smoother flowing phrase. "Know thine enemy" works better than "know thy enemy"; "Know thine place" would sound strange compared to "know thy place".


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## Ander111

Jack Grant said:


> They are both archaic, and supposedly correspond to my/mine.


Jack, didn't you mean they corresponded to "you/yours"? Perhaps the similar sounds of "thine" and "mine" distracted you.


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## GEmatt

Ander111 said:


> Jack, didn't you mean they corresponded to "you/yours"?


That would be "your/yours", if anything. The principle's the same,  though.


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## Ander111

GEmatt said:


> That would be "your/yours", if anything...



You're entirely right about my missing R (dang netbook keyboard!). But the closest "correspondence" would be in the same person, no?


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## guitarpop

Yes, it is based upon whether or not the proceeding letter is a vowel or a consonant (except for h, which, as it often is in French with the liaison, is treated like a vowel). 

To thine own self be true. Sheathe thy blade!

 It's the same with my/mine. What's even more interesting is to compare this older English with German, with mine obviously being similar to "mein(e)" and thine similar to "dein(e)" (many English words starting with "th" corresponding to German words starting with "d" (e.g. the = die, thou = du, denken = think, danke = thanks, dick = thick, etc.).


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## seafurrow

Hi. I tend to agree with others in this thread about the general usage of the possessive pronouns _Thy _and _Thine, _as well _my_ and _mine. _Writers usually use _Thine _and _mine _before nouns beginning with either a vowel or an _h, _Thy and my are used with all others (sorry, the italics stopped working).

For example, one might say:

Cupid hath pierced _mine_/_thine h_eart with his arrow.

_Thy_/_my _blade doth well cut the butter

_Thine _eyes behold the light whilst_ mine _ears burn at _thine_ attempts at seduction.

This all being said, I have detected some inconsistencies in the usage of some of these forms, particularly in the employment of the Thy and Thine for your and yours.. Specifically speaking, I've noticed that the KJV of the Bible almost without exception uses Thy and Thine as the above guidelines suggest. But the Douay Rheims Bible only uses _Thine _to show possession, and _Thy _for all other things.

For example, Psalms II:8 in the KJV states:
"Ask of me and I shall give thee the heathen and for _thine _inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for _thy _possession."

[...]

I hope this helps any seekers on this question of thy and thine. I'm texting all this from a phone and so will stop for now. Fare ye well.

Moderator note: Quotations are limited to four lines (see WRF rule #4) - message shortened accordingly.


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## Schmunzie

Alipeeps said:


> E.g. "If thou wilt ease thine heart" or "In the garden of thy heart"


I realise I'm eight years late responding to this but I would argue that poetry dictates the usage in these examples. Aspirating the H of "heart" emphasises the word as is appropriate when it carries the metrical stress and thus takes "thy". When it does not carry the stress,  it invites "thine" instead. 

 I'm going only on the examples quoted. I'm no Shakespearean expert and have no idea if an analysis would find he's consistent in this.


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## CalgaryB

Sir Walter Scott, Ivanhoe, Chapter 39, writes "the reversal of thy arms, the dishonour of thine ancestry, the degradation of thy rank". This suggests that, as another comment says above, that the usage varied, and that a following vowel or consonant makes no difference (thy arms, thine ancestry).


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## lucasfbc

If the sentence contains 'of' (it is not accusative), then you use: 'Thy, to singular' but 'Thine, to plural'.

But if the sentence does not contain 'of', then it is probably an accusative sentence... So use 'thine'.
For example: "I love thine car".


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## wildan1

lucasfbc said:


> But if the sentence does not contain 'of', then it is probably an accusative sentence... So use 'thine'.
> For example: "I love thine car".


This is an unrealistic example--cars are modern, existing only centuries after "thy/thine" fell out of use.

_Thine_ in this context is neither plural nor objective case; when used as an adjective, _thine_ was used instead of _thy _before a word beginning with a vowel: _thine eyes. _(Similar to_ a/an_).


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## Hildy1

lucasfbc said:


> For example: "I love thine car".



I agree with those who say that it's _thy_ before a consonant, and _thine_ before a vowel sound:

So:
thy car / my car
thine automobile / mine automobile
thine SUV  (beginning with a vowel sound, though it is written as a consonant)

This car is thine / mine
This automobile is thine / mine.

Wildan is quite right, of course, that these are very unlikely to be used today. But anachronisms can be fun!


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