# Egyptian Arabic: eSTaad, yeSTaad اصطاد - يصطاد



## laneylady

Egyptian Arabic: eSTaad, yeSTaad
please conjugate in Roman letters. Chokran.


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## إسكندراني

capital a (A) indicates 'fAll' not 'mate'.
colon ) indicates a long vowel
ana -STAtt / baSTA:d
enta -STAtt / bteSTA:d
howwa -STA:d / byeSTA:d
heyya -STA:det / bteSTA:d
homma -STA:do / byeSTA:do
e7na -STAdna / bneSTA:d
Pronouns are usually be dropped.


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## laneylady

are you giving the perfect first and them the present?  Where are _enti and entu/
_Here  are the forms that I have for the Present tense:



eSTaad               
 ana aSTaad       enta tiStaad
enti  tiSTaadi    
howa yiSTaad  
haya tiSTaad     
echna niSTaad   
entu tiSTaadu     
humma yiSTaadu  
Sayd  = masdar
............................................................

Why are your forms different? Please explain.
Chokran,


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## إسكندراني

enti STatti/bteSTA:di 
ento -STatto/bteSTA:do

Your table is the same as what I've given, but it's dropped the initial b. That's because it is only used in certain situations.
*b*aSTA:d
kont *b*aSTA:d
raye7 aSTA:d


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## laneylady

Chokran,
Why do you write *o *instead of *u ( kont, ento, bteSTA:do) *like everyone else I've encountered?
Can you explain the situations in which the added *b *is used??
How can you say our tables are the same when you use *o *where I use* u?
*Is English your native language?


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## Finland

Hello laneylady,

You know, transliteration is not a straightforward thing between Arabic and English. Scholars could spend hours debating about whether to transliterate Egyptian Arabic كنت as kont or kunt. Your life will be a lot easier if you just stick to the writing in Arabic and learn how to pronounce with the help of natives.

HTH
S


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## laneylady

Yes I know that there are various systems of transliteration but there is no way that learning to read Arabic will be easier (at least not for me).  and* o* and* u *are pronounced very differently in English so I don't understand a system that uses them interchangeably,and I will learn to read eventually after I learn to speak better,incha'allah

I am  highly educated  (Harvard, University of Chicago, University of California Berkeley, Sorbonne) with concentrations in languages and linguistics and 7 languages under my belt and am a retired language professor so I know what I am doing, even if it might not be right for everyone else, it works for me. And my accent is apparently very good as I am understood by everyone from Yemen to Morocco( and immediately identifieid as "masri" )and am frequently told that my accent is very good. So what I am doing is working for me.  I realize that I am a special case and it might not work for everyone. Thank you for your well intentioned advice.
I would still appreciate an explanation of the situations in which one must use *b* before the verb,
Chokran,


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## Finland

Hello,

I hope I didn't sound insolent or anything. At least that was not my intention.

Regarding kunt or kont: it is really difficult to be precise about the vowel quality especially because the vowel here is unstressed. When you listen to Egyptians, the vowel really does hover between u and o, and there are individual and regional differences as well. I think most Egyptian Arabic study guides and dictionaries prefer to transliterate it as "kunt", but then again, it could be just interference from MSA. The same sort of hesitation exists between i and e, or e and a; it is often very difficult to decide between them. Transliterating dialects is very tricky. 

As for the b- before the verb, it is more simple: you use it in normal indicative present tense and drop it in the subjunctive mood. 

HTH
S


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## laneylady

Ilike your explanations.I get the impression that you know what you are talking about. 
But the "b" is not consistently used in the Present in _Colloquial, Arabic of Egypt,_ only ocassionally ditto for Pimsleur, _Egyptian Arabic _so I conclude that it is optional.  Am I wrong? 
 And as for the *u *coming from MSA, I have read of other pronounciations used by the more highly educated which are influenced by MSA. Since I am highly educated and aspire to sound like my Egyptian counterpart, I think that perhaps that would be the correct pronounciation for me??

And here is a tip for you: _simpler_ is better than _more simple_,even though the latter is being used more and more these days as the language evolves (as always, in the direction of the less educated masses, alas!)
rgd


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## Finland

Hello

I'm sure the indicative present tense b- is consistently used where it is supposed to be used in the manuals you have mentioned. It is not optional. Maybe if you gave us a couple of examples of the cases you spot that do not have b-, we'll be able to explain what makes the verb something else than indicative.

The u sound may indeed be coming from MSA, but that doesn't mean that those who speak "pure" dialect won't use it. In any case, if you pronounce u, it won't be considered wrong or anything. Arabic dialects are pretty tolerant with vowels, and at least I as a foreigner don't even strive for absolute authenticity in the way I pronounce vowels. كنت can be pronounced kunt, kont, kent, kənt, kint, chint, chent and so forth depending on the dialect (and indeed regiolect, sociolect, idiolect...). When talking to my Arab friends and learning their dialects by imitating them, I usually start by pronouncing words such as كنت with a schwa (the word will be understood by everyone), and then instinctively work my way towards a more authentic pronunciation by imitation. The transliterations in verb conjugation charts and language manuals in general should be taken as merely indicative and approximative – the reality is always more complex (and, for example, there is no such thing as _one_ Egyptian dialect, because regional and other differences are numerous).

I'm sure other forum members can elucidate the question better than I.

HTH
S


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## إسكندراني

In Arabic, the consonants are much more important than the vowels, so the vowels can change from one city/social class/person/gender. In Egyptian, it's usually (o) and (e), but then again the (i) can start sounding like the turkish dotless i sometimes, and some words remain (u) and (i) for some people - but some regions abolish these two altogether - so being pedantic with the vowels is a very bad idea. If you do what you like with them and get the consonants right, you'll still end up being understood fine.


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## laneylady

I want to speak like an upper class, highly educated woman from Cairo so which should I choose?  And what is usually *o *and *e*?

Chokran


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## Finland

An upper class, highly educated woman from Cairo can say both kont or kunt. Or then you can just speak MSA. Really, I don't know how to explain in more detail that no matter how minutely you study the issue, you will find that the vowels vary a lot in Arabic because consonants are more important. Trying to find a rule that covers everything is a bit of a futile exercice. I am sure your Arabic sounds just fine!

HTH
S


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## إسكندراني

I would say that upper class Egyptian women try to sound a bit francophone, so they use 'u' and 'i' more than normal people would.


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## laneylady

That's great because French is my second language and I speak virtually like a native!


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## cherine

I don't think this is correct.

Personally, when I transliterate colloquial Arabic (Egyptian) I make a difference between u and o because they do sound different. There's short u and o, and long u and o. For example:
- konto (pl. you were) is pronounced different that kuunu or kuuno (pl. imperative be)
- The pronoun howwa (he) is not pronounced "huwwa" as far as I know.
- khod خد (the imperative of "to take") is not pronounced khud.
- duus دوس (singular imperative of to step on) is not pronounced "doos".
- buus بوس (singular imperative "kiss") is not pronounced "boos". And boos is kissing.
(By the way, the common usage in this forum is to double the vowels to indicate they're long)

You can perceive this difference if you listen to Egyptians speaking. There are loads of material available on line varying between songs, movies, dramas, talk shows...etc.

I'm not from Cairo, but I'm a university graduate and I do my best to convey the common "urban" Cairo pronunciation instead of the local pronunciation, say that of Alexandria. So I hope this is useful to you.


Edit: I forgot to comment on the b- part. In Egyptian Arabic, when talking about either a present action or a habit, verbs are prefixed with b-. We say:
ana bakteb, and not ana akteb
ana baStaaD, not ana aStaad
ana ba7ebb, not ana a7ebb.

The form without the prefix is not used independently, but in construction. Here's a few examples:
A7eb ashuufek ennaharda (I'd like to see/meet you today)
baruu7 aStaad yoom el-gom3a eS-Sob7 (I go fishing Friday mornings)
ba7aawel azaaker mesh 3arfa (I'm trying to study but I can't/am unable to)


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## إسكندراني

@cherine , if you are speaking like a super-posh middle-aged woman, you could probably use (u)&(i) everywhere (try it out loud). I only brought it up because I noticed some of my relatives do it  It's not how most people speak but she could get away with it to start off with. The only way beginners can learn Egyptian is to hear it often, because we interchange between u/o & i/e following no real logic...
@laneylady the point about long vs. short vowels is very important.


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## laneylady

"we interchange between u/o & i/e following no real logic.".. When you say "we" does that mean you are Egyptian?  You list your native language as en(gb) but sometimes you don't sound like a native speaker of English. so I am puzzled??


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## إسكندراني

I grew up bilingual so I'm either a native of both or a native of neither depending on your take on it 
And you should open a new thread for your new question.


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