# くる: time or space



## narutokage

Are there any ways to know whether Verbてくる is about time or space ?


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## DaylightDelight

narutokage said:


> Are there any ways to know whether Verbてくる is about time or space ?


Hmmm... context?
But seriously, I can't think of an easy way to distinguish them.

今朝テレビを見てきた = I watched a tv show this morning (, then I came) .
いままでたくさんのテレビを見てきた = I have watched many tv shows until now.
彼に電話をかけてくる = I'll call him (then come back).
彼が電話をかけてくる = He'll call me.
寒いから明日はコートを着てくる = It's cold, I'll come with a coat tomorrow.
ちょと待って、コートを着てくる = Hold on a sec, I'm going to put my coat on (then come back).


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## narutokage

DaylightDelight said:


> Hmmm... context?
> But seriously, I can't think of an easy way to distinguish them.
> 
> 今朝テレビを見てきた = I watched a tv show this morning (, then I came) .
> いままでたくさんのテレビを見てきた = I have watched many tv shows until now.
> 彼に電話をかけてくる = I'll call him (then come back).
> 彼が電話をかけてくる = He'll call me.
> 寒いから明日はコートを着てくる = It's cold, I'll come with a coat tomorrow.
> ちょと待って、コートを着てくる = Hold on a sec, I'm going to put my coat on (then come back).


Thank you for your very interesting examples. This grammar point bugged me a lot ^^

My friend told me that: Verbてくる
When the verb involves changing from a state to another state, てくる is usually about time.
When there's place available in the context, てくる is usually about space.
Are there any other ways to know ?


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## DaylightDelight

narutokage said:


> When the verb involves changing from a state to another state, てくる is usually about time.
> When there's place available in the context, てくる is usually about space.


Yes, that can be a clue in many cases.

Another possible clue is whether the combined verb has the meaning related to location or direction:
(太陽が)登ってくる/沈んでいく, 帰ってくる/出かけていく, (from someone to the speaker) (メールを)送ってくる/(電話を)かけてくる
These are all about space (some are in a figurative sense).

According to some Japanese teaching web sites, usage of V-てくる can be divided into 9 to 10 categories.
I could list them with some explanation/examples if you are interested.


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## narutokage

DaylightDelight said:


> Yes, that can be a clue in many cases.
> 
> Another possible clue is whether the combined verb has the meaning related to location or direction:
> (太陽が)登ってくる/沈んでいく, 帰ってくる/出かけていく, (from someone to the speaker) (メールを)送ってくる/(電話を)かけてくる
> These are all about space (some are in a figurative sense).
> 
> According to some Japanese teaching web sites, usage of V-てくる can be divided into 9 to 10 categories.
> I could list them with some explanation/examples if you are interested.


Yes, please. I'm really interesting.


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## DaylightDelight

Okay, here we go.  I don't know if this is an established classification or not, but I find it reasonable enough.

1. Spacial movement - sequential
Do something, then come. Works with most verbs describing actions. 
ビールを買ってくる I'll go buy some beer, then come back.
ご飯を食べてきた I ate my meal, then came here.​
2. Spacial movement - possession
Come with/without something.  Works with verbs meaning carry, possess, etc.
犬を連れてくる I'll come with a dog (= I'll come bringing a dog)
荷物を運んできた I brought the luggage (= I came carrying the luggage).
Your 置いてきちゃった example in another thread can be classified as one of these:
I failed to bring it = I came leaving it behind.​
3. Spacial movement - method
With verbs involving change of location such as run, walk, swim, fly.
走ってくる = I'll come running.
飛んできた = I came flying.​
4. Spacial movement - attire
With verbs meaning to put something on, to wear something.
帽子をかぶってくる = I'll come wearing a hat.
コートを着てきた = I came wearing a coat.​
5. Spacial movement - movement of the subject
With verbs related to destination/direction, such as enter, exit, rise, sink, leave home, come home, etc.
家に帰ってくる = I'll come home (when the speaker is at home)
太陽が登ってきた = The sun came up (from the perspective of the speaker).​
6. Spacial movement - movement of the object
With verbs such as send, bring, call (telephone)
友達が電話をかけてくる = My friend will call me.
母が手紙を送ってきた = My mother sent me a letter.​
7. Time course - continuation
When the action/state has continued (V-てきた) or will continue (V-ていく).
To state about the matters up to the present time, past tense V-てきた is used.
To state about the matters after the present time, present/future tense V-ていく is used.
これまで幸せに生きてきた = I've had a happy life so far.
これから幸せに生きていく = I'll have a happy life from now on.​8. Transition - state
With verbs such as become, change, etc.  Describes the change of state.
これから寒くなってくる = It's going to grow colder (It is not cold yet).
最近太ってきた = I became fat these days (I was not fat earlier).​
9. Transition - sense
With sense verbs such as hear, see, smell. Describes that the stimulus reaches the speaker.
角を曲がると家が見えてくる = When I turn the corner, I'll see my house. (The house will come into view)
いい匂いがしてきた = I smell something good (The aroma has reached me.)​
For the record, these are my interpretation of the information on the following pages:
「～てくる・～ていく」表現（１） | 日本語教師の広場
「～てくる、～ていく」表現（２） | 日本語教師の広場
「～てくる、～ていく」表現（３） | 日本語教師の広場
「～てくる、～ていく」表現（４） | 日本語教師の広場
「～てくる、～ていく」表現（５） | 日本語教師の広場


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## narutokage

DaylightDelight said:


> Okay, here we go.  I don't know if this is an established classification or not, but I find it reasonable enough.
> 
> 1. Spacial movement - sequential
> Do something, then come. Works with most verbs describing actions.
> ビールを買ってくる I'll go buy some beer, then come back.
> ご飯を食べてきた I ate my meal, then came here.​
> 2. Spacial movement - possession
> Come with/without something.  Works with verbs meaning carry, possess, etc.
> 犬を連れてくる I'll come with a dog (= I'll come bringing a dog)
> 荷物を運んできた I brought the luggage (= I came carrying the luggage).
> Your 置いてきちゃった example in another thread can be classified as one of these:
> I failed to bring it = I came leaving it behind.​
> 3. Spacial movement - method
> With verbs involving change of location such as run, walk, swim, fly.
> 走ってくる = I'll come running.
> 飛んできた = I came flying.​
> 4. Spacial movement - attire
> With verbs meaning to put something on, to wear something.
> 帽子をかぶってくる = I'll come wearing a hat.
> コートを着てきた = I came wearing a coat.​
> 5. Spacial movement - movement of the subject
> With verbs related to destination/direction, such as enter, exit, rise, sink, leave home, come home, etc.
> 家に帰ってくる = I'll come home (when the speaker is at home)
> 太陽が登ってきた = The sun came up (from the perspective of the speaker).​
> 6. Spacial movement - movement of the object
> With verbs such as send, bring, call (telephone)
> 友達が電話をかけてくる = My friend will call me.
> 母が手紙を送ってきた = My mother sent me a letter.​
> 7. Time course - continuation
> When the action/state has continued (V-てきた) or will continue (V-ていく).
> To state about the matters up to the present time, past tense V-てきた is used.
> To state about the matters after the present time, present/future tense V-ていく is used.
> これまで幸せに生きてきた = I've had a happy life so far.
> これから幸せに生きていく = I'll have a happy life from now on.​8. Transition - state
> With verbs such as become, change, etc.  Describes the change of state.
> これから寒くなってくる = It's going to grow colder (It is not cold yet).
> 最近太ってきた = I became fat these days (I was not fat earlier).​
> 9. Transition - sense
> With sense verbs such as hear, see, smell. Describes that the stimulus reaches the speaker.
> 角を曲がると家が見えてくる = When I turn the corner, I'll see my house. (The house will come into view)
> いい匂いがしてきた = I smell something good (The aroma has reached me.)​
> For the record, these are my interpretation of the information on the following pages:
> 「～てくる・～ていく」表現（１） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（２） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（３） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（４） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（５） | 日本語教師の広場


thank you, I've already noted in my book.


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## narutokage

DaylightDelight said:


> Okay, here we go.  I don't know if this is an established classification or not, but I find it reasonable enough.
> 
> 1. Spacial movement - sequential
> Do something, then come. Works with most verbs describing actions.
> ビールを買ってくる I'll go buy some beer, then come back.
> ご飯を食べてきた I ate my meal, then came here.​
> 2. Spacial movement - possession
> Come with/without something.  Works with verbs meaning carry, possess, etc.
> 犬を連れてくる I'll come with a dog (= I'll come bringing a dog)
> 荷物を運んできた I brought the luggage (= I came carrying the luggage).
> Your 置いてきちゃった example in another thread can be classified as one of these:
> I failed to bring it = I came leaving it behind.​
> 3. Spacial movement - method
> With verbs involving change of location such as run, walk, swim, fly.
> 走ってくる = I'll come running.
> 飛んできた = I came flying.​
> 4. Spacial movement - attire
> With verbs meaning to put something on, to wear something.
> 帽子をかぶってくる = I'll come wearing a hat.
> コートを着てきた = I came wearing a coat.​
> 5. Spacial movement - movement of the subject
> With verbs related to destination/direction, such as enter, exit, rise, sink, leave home, come home, etc.
> 家に帰ってくる = I'll come home (when the speaker is at home)
> 太陽が登ってきた = The sun came up (from the perspective of the speaker).​
> 6. Spacial movement - movement of the object
> With verbs such as send, bring, call (telephone)
> 友達が電話をかけてくる = My friend will call me.
> 母が手紙を送ってきた = My mother sent me a letter.​
> 7. Time course - continuation
> When the action/state has continued (V-てきた) or will continue (V-ていく).
> To state about the matters up to the present time, past tense V-てきた is used.
> To state about the matters after the present time, present/future tense V-ていく is used.
> これまで幸せに生きてきた = I've had a happy life so far.
> これから幸せに生きていく = I'll have a happy life from now on.​8. Transition - state
> With verbs such as become, change, etc.  Describes the change of state.
> これから寒くなってくる = It's going to grow colder (It is not cold yet).
> 最近太ってきた = I became fat these days (I was not fat earlier).​
> 9. Transition - sense
> With sense verbs such as hear, see, smell. Describes that the stimulus reaches the speaker.
> 角を曲がると家が見えてくる = When I turn the corner, I'll see my house. (The house will come into view)
> いい匂いがしてきた = I smell something good (The aroma has reached me.)​
> For the record, these are my interpretation of the information on the following pages:
> 「～てくる・～ていく」表現（１） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（２） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（３） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（４） | 日本語教師の広場
> 「～てくる、～ていく」表現（５） | 日本語教師の広場


I think that will need to reread again sometimes to fully digest it. It is such a big trouble which has haunted me quite a long time since I had started to read Japanese.


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## DaylightDelight

narutokage said:


> I think that will need to reread again sometimes to fully digest it. It is such a big trouble which has haunted me quite a long time since I had started to read Japanese.


There's no wonder you are having hard time grasping them.  That such web pages as I cited exist shows how Japanese teachers are having hard time teaching them, too

P.S. Keep up with your study!  I personally believe that reading what you can enjoy is the best way to learn a foreign language.  It may not be the fastest or the most efficient, but it sure is the easiest to persevere.


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## narutokage

DaylightDelight said:


> There's no wonder you are having hard time grasping them.  That such web pages as I cited exist shows how Japanese teachers are having hard time teaching them, too
> 
> P.S. Keep up with your study!  I personally believe that reading what you can enjoy is the best way to learn a foreign language.  It may not be the fastest or the most efficient, but it sure is the easiest to persevere.


Yes, sure. Thank you


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## frequency

narutokage said:


> Are there any ways to know whether Verbてくる is about time or space ?


That's 補助動詞, hojyo-doushi when it is used like this way. Verb + verb combination. We just do so. I recommend you memorise it. 置いてくる・・etc.

You know we say "start learning Japanese". This is almost the same as it..don't you have verb+verb in Vietnamese?

㋐話し手の方へ向かって動作が行われ，その話し手の方へ近づく意を表す。 「少年がこっちへ走って*き*た」 「蜂が飛んで*き*た」
㋑（すぐに現在地に戻ることを前提にして）別の場所へ行って動作を行う意と，現在地に至る前に別の場所である動作を完了・実現した意を表す。 「台所で変な音がしたからちょっと見て*くる*よ」 「うちへ帰ってカバンを置いて*き*ます」 「出るとき玄関の鍵はきちんと掛けて*き*たはずです」 「いけない，大事な書類をうちに忘れて*き*た」
㋒ある事態が出現し，またある現象が現れる意を表す。 「生まれて*くる*子供のために」 「なくした本が出て*き*た」
㋓動作が継続・反復されて現在に至るまで続く意を表す。 「生まれてからずうっとこの村で暮らして*き*た」 「いつも，ひとに迷惑をかけるな，といって*き*たはずだ」
㋔事態が進行してある段階に至る意を表す。 「眠くなって*き*た」 「沖へより潮満ち*く*らし／万葉集 3642」


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## frequency

narutokage said:


> When there's place available in the context, てくる is usually about space.


I think you're talking about イ.
㋑（すぐに現在地に戻ることを前提にして）別の場所へ行って動作を行う意と，現在地に至る前に別の場所である動作を完了・実現した意を表す。 「台所で変な音がしたからちょっと見て*くる*よ」 「うちへ帰ってカバンを置いて*き*ます」 「出るとき玄関の鍵はきちんと掛けて*き*たはずです」 「いけない，大事な書類をうちに忘れて*き*た」
「コーヒーを買ってきた」 If you bought coffee and have arrived now.



> Are there any other ways to know ?


Just context.


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## narutokage

frequency said:


> That's 補助動詞, hojyo-doushi when it is used like this way. Verb + verb combination. We just do so. I recommend you memorise it. 置いてくる・・etc.
> 
> You know we say "start learning Japanese". This is almost the same as it..don't you have verb+verb in Vietnamese?
> 
> ㋐話し手の方へ向かって動作が行われ，その話し手の方へ近づく意を表す。 「少年がこっちへ走って*き*た」 「蜂が飛んで*き*た」
> ㋑（すぐに現在地に戻ることを前提にして）別の場所へ行って動作を行う意と，現在地に至る前に別の場所である動作を完了・実現した意を表す。 「台所で変な音がしたからちょっと見て*くる*よ」 「うちへ帰ってカバンを置いて*き*ます」 「出るとき玄関の鍵はきちんと掛けて*き*たはずです」 「いけない，大事な書類をうちに忘れて*き*た」
> ㋒ある事態が出現し，またある現象が現れる意を表す。 「生まれて*くる*子供のために」 「なくした本が出て*き*た」
> ㋓動作が継続・反復されて現在に至るまで続く意を表す。 「生まれてからずうっとこの村で暮らして*き*た」 「いつも，ひとに迷惑をかけるな，といって*き*たはずだ」
> ㋔事態が進行してある段階に至る意を表す。 「眠くなって*き*た」 「沖へより潮満ち*く*らし／万葉集 3642」


No, it is not about verb + verb, my friend. IT is about Verb-te+くる. As it was listed above, -てくる can mean coming forward one's territory/time/perspective and even gradually change from one state to another. That is what really confuse Japanese learners. Besides, in Vietnamese we only have verb+verb like 帰ってくる come back, 走ってくる come walk, 電話をかけてくる call come which verbs are really related to each other... When it comes to unrelated verbs like "I go to buy a coffee and then come back", we express it the same way as English "I go to buy a coffee THEN come back".

"Since the day I learn Japanese" I said that because I had started to read real Japanese (not what in textbook) very early since the very day when I could read hiragana.

To foreign language learners like us, having some clues to narrow down the scope is really valuable, especially when our brain hasn't been customized enough to the language--which allow us to feel the language itself.


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## frequency

It's verb (+ te) +verb くる. See 置く＋くる, 置く needs to change to 置いて. That's all. Either needs to change like this way, like you can't say "start learn", but "start learning".



narutokage said:


> -てくる can mean coming forward one's territory/time/perspective and even gradually change from one state to another. That is what really confuse Japanese learners.


I agree. You're right.
You know, now leaves are getting red. We say _（Ha ga）akaku natte kuru_. You may wonder if it is different to _akaku naru_. Indeed, they're not different a lot. But _akaku natte kuru_ says that they're _now getting_ so. They're in such a situation.



> 帰ってくる come back, 走ってくる come walk, 電話をかけてくる call come which verbs are really related to each other... When it comes to unrelated verbs like "I go to buy a coffee and then come back", we express it the same way as English "I go to buy a coffee THEN come back".


I understand you.
About 走ってくる・電話をかけてくる, they can suggest your temporary go/absence, too. Neither English nor Vietnamese does this job, I think. "I'll go out and soon come back because I (want to) run/make a phone call." Is it weird? We say so


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## narutokage

frequency said:


> It's verb (+ te) +verb くる. See 置く＋くる, 置く needs to change to 置いて. That's all. Either needs to change like this way, like you can't say "start learn", but "start learning".
> 
> 
> I agree. You're right.
> You know, now leaves are getting red. We say _（Ha ga）akaku natte kuru_. You may wonder if it is different to _akaku naru_. Indeed, they're not different a lot. But _akaku natte kuru_ says that they're _now getting_ so. They're in such a situation.
> 
> 
> I understand you.
> About 走ってくる・電話をかけてくる, they can suggest your temporary go/absence, too. Neither English nor Vietnamese does this job, I think. "I'll go out and soon come back because I (want to) run/make a phone call." Is it weird? We say so


I agree, but it is not new to me. Japanese has always been that weird, hasn't it


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## frequency

Ahaha~ Good! You've learned it again.


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## narutokage

frequency said:


> Ahaha~ Good! You've learned it again.


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