# Istanbul



## spakh

I wonder what names are used for Istanbul ,the late capital city of Turkey,(Costantinople is another name) in your language? Is it a name derived from Constantin or anything else?
thanks


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## zaby

Hello Spakh,

In French, it used to be _*Bysance*_ then _*Constantinople*_ and now _*Istambul  Istanbul *_


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## Outsider

The city's current name is *Istambul* (no dot on the "I", for us). Of course, we also have words for "Byzantium" and "Constantinople".


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## Kraus

In Italian: Bisanzio and Costantinopoli; today Istanbul


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## Ilmo

In Finnish: 
Istanbul nowadays. Note, "n" and not "m" before "b", but the name may be pronounced also with a "m". 
The old name is still well known, and we write it in our own way Konstantinopoli, with an initial "K" and an "i" at the end.


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## Cecilio

In Spanish we have "Estambul" for the modern name, and "Bizancio" and "Constantinopla" for the former ones.


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## Cecilio

In Catalan: Istambul; Bizanci and Constantinoble.


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## Etcetera

*In Russian:
*Стамбул (Stambul) nowadays. The old name was Константинополь (Konstantinopol), and yes, it was derived from 'Constantin'.


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## J.F. de TROYES

In French the spelling "Istanbul" is more and more used, rather than "Istambul" .


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## Stéphane89

zaby said:


> Hello Spakh,
> 
> In French, it used to be _*Bysance*_ then _*Constantinople*_ and now _*Istambul*_


 
Yes but the the right spelling is *Istanbul*. It is an exception to the rule that says that _N_ becomes _M_ before _M_ and _P_.


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## Heba

In Arabic: *اسطانبول* (Istanbul). Some people write it like that: *استانبول*


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## Jana337

Czech:

Byzanc --> Konstantinopol / Cařihrad* --> Istanbul (many people would mistakenly spell it with an "m").

* A Slavic name. Car - tsar, hrad - castle/stronghold (other Slavic languages use grad, as in Petrograd)

Jana


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## Whodunit

German:

Byzanz
Konstantinopel
*Istanbul*

There's no confusion between _n_ and _m_ in German.


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## Miguelillo 87

In spanish.- Bizancio, Costantinopla and Now Estambul


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## beclija

In Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian:
Modern name: Istanbul - Истанбул
Historical names: Bizant/Vizant - Бизант/Визант
Konstantinopolj - Константинопољ
Carigrad - Цариград (see Jana's explanation)
Stambol/Stambul - Стамбол/Стамбул



Whodunit said:


> German:
> 
> Byzanz
> Konstantinopel
> *Istanbul*
> 
> There's no confusion between _n_ and _m_ in German.


Consider the older name "Stambul"/"Stambol", though.


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## Outsider

Jana337 said:


> Ca?ihrad*
> 
> * A Slavic name. Car - tsar, hrad - castle/stronghold (other Slavic languages use grad, as in Petrograd)


"Fortress of the Cesars"? That sounds nice! 
(Though the alternate translation "Cesar's Palace" makes me chuckle. )


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## linguist786

Heba said:


> In Arabic: *اسطانبول* (Istanbul). Some people write it like that: *استانبول*


In Urdu it is almost always the second one (with a *ت* and not *ط*)


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## robbie_SWE

Swedish: *Istanbul*

 robbie


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## Frank06

Hi,

In *Dutch*:
Istanbul (but pronounced as Ista*m*bul due to assimilation)
Byzantium
Constantinopel

Groetjes,

F


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## zaby

J.F. de TROYES said:


> In French the spelling "Istanbul" is more and more used, rather than "Istambul" .


 


StefKE said:


> Yes but the the right spelling is *Istanbul*. It is an exception to the rule that says that _N_ becomes _M_ before _M_ and _P_.


 
Oops, you're right ! Thanks for the correction !


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## betulina

Cecilio said:


> In Catalan: Istambul; Bizanci and Constantinoble.



Hi! It happens the same as in French, the right spelling is Istanbul. The same exception to the same rule.


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## ireney

We refer to it both as Ιστανμπούλ and Κωνσταντινούπολη (Istanbul Constantinople) although between Greeks we use the second   one of which is the "original" and therefore has everything to do with Constantin and the second the Turkish rendering which "did away" with the "Constantin" part of the name.

P.S. I find it funny that in so many languages it used to have its most ancient name that we know of (Byzantion being the Greek colony city-state where Constantinople was built)


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## Outsider

ireney said:


> P.S. I find it funny that in so many languages it used to have its most ancient name that we know of (Byzantion being the Greek colony city-state where Constantinople was built)


What do you mean?


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## spakh

Thanks you all.
By the way it's interesting in Russian it is town etc. of tsar, although it has nothing to do with tsar.


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## Outsider

I think the "tsar" name is an ancient one, no longer in use.


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## Maja

spakh said:


> Thanks you all.
> By the way it's interesting in Russian it is town etc. of tsar, although it has nothing to do with tsar.


It is so in other Slavic languages as well (see Jana and Beclija's posts). And I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with the tsar.


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## Maja

ireney said:


> We refer to it both as Ιστανμπούλ and Κωνσταντινούπολη (Istanbul Constantinople) although between Greeks we use the second   one of which is the "original" and therefore has everything to do with Constantin and the second the Turkish rendering which "did away" with the "Constantin" part of the name.


The Ecumenical Patriarchate is still called The Orthodox Church of  Constantinople!


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## modus.irrealis

My guess about the Slavic names is that tsar here refers to the Roman Emperor, so Istanbul was called the Emperor's City (or something analogous I guess). Although, if I remember my Byzantine terminology right, the Emperor bore the title Augustus, while Caesar was a lower rank.


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## ireney

Outsider said:


> What do you mean?



The city of Constantinople was built where an ancient Greek city state, colony of Megara. The name of that colony/city-state was Byzantion. That's where any term of the kind (Bizanci etc) come from.



Maja said:


> The Ecumenical Patriarchate is still called The Orthodox Church of  Constantinople!



Oh! I didn't know that! I thught only we called it so!



modus.irrealis said:


> My guess about the Slavic names is that tsar here refers to the Roman Emperor, so Istanbul was called the Emperor's City (or something analogous I guess). Although, if I remember my Byzantine terminology right, the Emperor bore the title Augustus, while Caesar was a lower rank.



I read that it refers to the term Βασιλίς Πόλις (Royal City) which was one way to refer to Constantinople, but I don't know if it's correct.


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## Outsider

Perhaps "Cesar" remained a colloquial synonym for "emperor".


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## Maja

ireney said:


> I read that it refers to the term Βασιλίς Πόλις (Royal City) which was one way to refer to Constantinople, but I don't know if it's correct.


I also think that it has to do with the great tsar Constantine.


Outsider said:


> Perhaps "Cesar" remained a colloquial synonym for "emperor".


 The data show that Constantine the Great  refounded the Greek city of Byzantium as Nova Roma (or Constantinoupolis after  himself) in 330 a.d. I don't think that the name "carigrad" is connected to  Caesar who lived 100-44 b.c.


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## Chazzwozzer

Ah, Istanbul... How I love thou!



ireney said:


> We refer to it both as Ιστανμπούλ and Κωνσταντινούπολη (Istanbul Constantinople) although between Greeks we use the second



Hehe, tell me about it!  Well, a Turk can be very sensetive when a Greek calls it Constantinople, which I always find it absurd.

On the reherseal of 2004 Istanbul Eurovision Song Contest:

_*First day:*_
*Greek Cypriot announcer: *Good evening, Constantinople!
*Turkish presenter:* It's been Istanbul for about 500 years!
*Greek: *Well, we call it like that!

_*Second day:
*_*Greek: *Hello, Constantinople!
*Turk:  *Hello, Southern Cyprus!

You know, Turkey is the only country that does not recognize Republic of Cyprus and sees it as the Greek part of island. Presenter's offended by Constantinople and use Turkish version instead of internationally-recognized one.

Now, I'd like to ask you, ireney, to confirm whether it's true or not. Does "Istanbul" have anything to do with Greek "in the city"? Istanbul or Constantinople, it's all Greek, right?




Maja said:


> The Ecumenical Patriarchate is still called The Orthodox Church of  Constantinople!





ireney said:


> Oh! I didn't know that! I thught only we called it so!
> 
> 
> 
> We usually call it "Fener Rum Patrikhanesi," but I see for the patriarch we say *"**Konstantinopol Patriği"* (Patriarch of Constantinople) Here, the headline says: "The Pope comes for Patriarch of Constantinople."
Click to expand...


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## modus.irrealis

ireney said:


> I read that it refers to the term Βασιλίς Πόλις (Royal City) which was one way to refer to Constantinople, but I don't know if it's correct.





Outsider said:


> Perhaps "Cesar" remained a colloquial synonym for "emperor".



That makes more sense. If I remember right, the Greek term for the Emperor was Basileus (with Autokrator being a later development?), and if the Slavic word for Emperor was just Tsar (or a variant of that), you get Tsar = Basileus, either in a translation of a Greek phrase or an independent Slavic name for the city.



Chazzwozzer said:


> Now, I'd like to ask you, ireney, to confirm whether it's true or not. Does "Istanbul" have anything to do with Greek "in the city"? Istanbul or Constantinople, it's all Greek, right?



I'm not Irene, but I've heard that theory quite often, since "in/to the City" in medieval Greek would have been εις την Πολη(ν) and pronounced in rapid speech as _is tim boli(n)_ (I don't know if the final n was still pronounced), which with some interpretation by Turkish speakers and some vowel harmony thrown in, could give Istanbul. There are a number of other Turkish names for cities that have the same pattern, although I can only think of Iznik from εις Νικαία(ν), pronounced _iz nikea(n)_. Are there any other theories for the name Istanbul, because this is the only one I've come across?


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## Whodunit

ireney said:


> We refer to it both as Ιστανμπούλ and Κωνσταντινούπολη (Istanbul Constantinople)


 
You Greeks are funny. 

While almost all other languages call it either Istanbul or Istambul (for a an easier pronunciation, because 'nb' is more difficult to articulate than and is therefore often even pronounced 'mb'), you use "Istanmpul." So, which sound do you use before the 'p?' [n] or [m]?


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## Thomas F. O'Gara

My original take on the name Tsarigrad for Istanbul was that it was a tacit recognition of the Orthodox Slavs that the town should be Orthodox Christian, not Muslim.  It certainly had that overtone in Czarist Russia, where it was an express goal for Czarist foreign policy to take the city and make it part of the Russian Empire - the so-called "Eastern Question" - and the Russians very nearly did take the city in 1878, being stopped primarily by the Western powers, most notably the UK.  The name is common on pre-1917 Russian maps.


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## Outsider

Whodunit said:


> You Greeks are funny.
> 
> While almost all other languages call it either Istanbul or Istambul (for a an easier pronunciation, because 'nb' is more difficult to articulate than and is therefore often even pronounced 'mb'), you use "Istanmpul." So, which sound do you use before the 'p?' [n] or [m]?


That's because they pronounce mp as *.*


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## übermönch

Thomas F. O'Gara said:


> My original take on the name Tsarigrad for Istanbul was that it was a tacit recognition of the Orthodox Slavs that the town should be Orthodox Christian, not Muslim. It certainly had that overtone in Czarist Russia, where it was an express goal for Czarist foreign policy to take the city and make it part of the Russian Empire - the so-called "Eastern Question" - and the Russians very nearly did take the city in 1878, being stopped primarily by the Western powers, most notably the UK. The name is common on pre-1917 Russian maps.


The name is much older, it's already used in 11th century chronicles of the Kiev monk Nestor. Though it could very well be that the name was dropped and picked up again in late 19th century.


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## jpdeweerdt

Frank06 said:


> Hi,
> 
> In *Dutch*:
> Istanbul (but pronounced as Ista*m*bul due to assimilation)
> Byzantium
> Constantinopel
> 
> Groetjes,
> 
> F



but also Istanboel (http://www.flysn.be/nl_be/promos-destinations/destinations/europe/turkey/istanbul.aspx)


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## sound shift

A book I have just finished reading states that Istanbul has also been called Kushta and Rumiyya al-kubra. I have no idea about the derivation of the former, but the latter looks like Arabic and I reckon "Rumiyya" means "Land of the [Eastern] Romans", i.e. the Greeks, due to its similarity with "Erzurum", a word of Arabic origin denoting a city in eastern Turkey, in which "rum" means Romans, i.e. Greeks.


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## jpdeweerdt

zaby said:


> Hello Spakh,
> 
> In French, it used to be _*Bysance*_



non, plutôt _ByZance_


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## jpdeweerdt

Here is a quote from the 'guide du routard':



> Savez-vous que le français est à l'origine du nom d'Istanbul? _Stamboul _désignait jusque-là l'actuel périmètre comprenant Sultanahmet, Cagaloglu et Beyazit, alors que Constantinople englobait tous les quartiers de la ville [...]. Stamboul venait du grec _Es tan poli_ qui signifiait "dans la ville", autrement dit "dans la vieille ville". On décida de prendre le nom francisé de Stamboul, aux connotations moins byzantines, pour désigner l'ensemble de la ville; on y ajouta un "i" qui respectait les harmonies du turc moderne..... et le tour fut joué.



Here is a translation in English (sorry, my Turkish is too poor):

Do you know that the word Istanbul oirginates from French? _Stamboul_ used to designate the area including Sultanahmet, Cagaloglu and Beyazit, whereas Constantinople designated all the areas of the city [...]. Stamboul comes from the Greek _Es tan poli_ which meant "in the city" or "in the old city". It was then decided to Frenchify the word, adding an "i" in order to respect the modern Turkish pronunciation.


Is this completely true? Is this French guide book exaggerating the influence of French?

This explanation seems logical, when you know that the Turks were influenced by the French language quite a lot, and that the added "i" is also found in other town names (cf _Isparta_)

Hope this helps


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## Outsider

I don't know about the influence of French, but I remember now that I have read the explanation that "Istanbul" started out as the name of a quarter in old Constantinople.


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## sound shift

It's true that Stamboul used to designate Sultanahmet, Cagaloglu and Beyazit - the districts on Seraglio Point, south of the Golden Horn. The district opposite Stamboul, on the other side of the Golden Horn, was called Pera, a name with allegedly Greek origins. Pera had a mainly Christian population including Italians, Greeks, Levantines and Armenians. French was widely used there. The main street of Pera was called the Grande Rue de Pera and even today a few French inscriptions (Passage Oriental, Cité de Roumélie, etc.) can be seen on the buildings that line it.

Nowadays no one talks of Stamboul, and Pera is called Beyoglu, a Turkish word that may however refer to a Genoese lord ("bey") of the Middle Ages.

Some of the suburbs of Istanbul used to have Italian names (e.g. San Stefano, now Yesilkoy).


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## ireney

Pera(n) means "over" .

Istanbul probably comes from the same place as Stanbul. The preposition for "to", "at" was at that time in a transitional state: Both Is tin pole and Stin Poli were used at the time.


As for Isparta, since I _think_ there was a city there named Sparta at one point maybe it owes its name to the same process (see also  Izmir and İznik)

Phanar also comes from Greek. The area where the Patriarch is had a huge lamp post (phanos, phanari) in the  dock of the harbour


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## Chazzwozzer

jpdeweerdt said:


> Is this completely true? Is this French guide book exaggerating the influence of French?
> 
> This explanation seems logical, when you know that the Turks were influenced by the French language quite a lot, and that the added "i" is also found in other town names (cf _Isparta_)





Outsider said:


> I don't know about the influence of French


After seeing this, I wouldn't say this is the worst exaggeratation I've ever seen. 

By the way, what French word is Isparta derived from? I didn't know that.OK, now I know. 



modus.irrealis said:


> I'm not Irene, but I've heard that theory quite often, since "in/to the City" in medieval Greek would have been εις την Πολη(ν) and pronounced in rapid speech as _is tim boli(n)_ (I don't know if the final n was still pronounced), which with some interpretation by Turkish speakers and some vowel harmony thrown in, could give Istanbul. There are a number of other Turkish names for cities that have the same pattern, although I can only think of Iznik from εις Νικαία(ν), pronounced _iz nikea(n)_. Are there any other theories for the name Istanbul, because this is the only one I've come across?


Hmmm... Thank you modus.irrealis. 



sound shift said:


> Nowadays no one talks of Stamboul, and Pera is called Beyoglu, a Turkish word that may however refer to a Genoese lord ("bey") of the Middle Ages.


Beyoğlu means "son of gentle," but like you've said it might have something to do with Genoese lords of Ottoman as well.

Beyoğlu is one of the *most* gay-friendly neighborhoods in Istanbul. So some think the name will change to "Geyoğlu" (son of gay) in the future. 



sound shift said:


> Some of the suburbs of Istanbul used to have Italian names (e.g. San Stefano, now Yesilkoy).


The name Yeşilköy was given by a Turkish writer who lived there. *Florya *is next to Yeşilköy, but its name is not Turkish. Is this Italian as well?

Levent (this and this), too, seems to be Italian to me. (levanten) But a group of Ottoman navy, far as I know, was once called Levent and they might have been living there. There are some theories about it as well.


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## jpdeweerdt

Chazzwozzer said:


> By the way, what French word is Isparta derived from? I didn't know that.OK, now I know.



sorry if my sentence wasn't clear enough, I was referring to the "i" in Isparta, not its French origin.

BTW, in French we have kept the version without the "i" when talking about the inhabitants : we say "les Stambouliotes"


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## ireney

There's Levante (IT) from  medieval French levant participle of lever which means rise, rise up (se lever = (the sun, moon etc) rises)

That's where Levantine comes from (a name used for Europeans, mainly Western Europeans living in East Mediterranean)

Then there's Levend (turk) and levendis (gr) from the italian Leventi who were buccaneers, pirates from the east from levante

(got all that from my etymological dictionary mind you, I didn't know about the medieval French!)


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## Honour

Until now, more or less (if i am not mistaken) forty different names has been used to call İstanbul.
For those who hasn't checked out wiki yet, please look at this article and for those who are capable of reading a turkish book and enough curious  about istanbul, please check this book.

Here are some names of Istanbul which i have taken from turkish wikipedia (vikipedi), written in Turkish transcription;

Vizantion, Bizantium, Antoninya, Alma Roma, Nova Roma, Konstantinopolis, Istinpolin, Megali Polis, Kalipolis, Çargrad, Konstantingrad, Kushta, Miklagord, Vizant, Stimbol, Esdambol, Eskomboli, Bizantiya, el-Mahsura, Kustantina el-uzma, Konstantiniyye, Mahrusa-i Konstantiniyye, Stambul, Dersaadet, Deraliyye, Mahrusa-i Saltanat, Istanbul, Islambol, Darü's-saltanat-ı Aliyye, Asitane-i Aliyye, Darü'l-Hilafetü 'l Aliye, Payitaht-ı Saltanat, Dergâh-ı Mualla, Südde-i Saadet


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## nimak

*Macedonian*:

Now it is called *Истанбул* (Istanbul) ['istanbuɫ].
In the past it was known as *Стамбол* (Stambol) ['stambɔɫ], and *Цариград* (Carigrad) ['t͡sarigrad] lit. _"Tsar's-City"_.


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## Welsh_Sion

Istanbul is Istanbul in Welsh, Very boring …. but ...

A true story involving my mum's late cousin (who tended to hen peck her poor husband). Often, to avoid this, he would flee to the local pub, 'The Bull'. When his wife was asked where her husband was, she'd reply, 

"Mae o'n ista'n Bull"
Is he-in-the-state-of sitting-in-the-state-of Bull
( = He's sitting in the Bull)

Not bad, no? And proof she could laugh at herself despite her carping!


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## Welsh_Sion

ista ['ista] - local North West Wales pronunciation 

(For purists the gerund of the verb in Welsh is 'eistedd'. As in 'eisteddfod'.)


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## Yendred

I don't think people have mentionned the etymology of all three historical names of this city:

_*Byzantium *_takes its name from Byzas, a mythological Thracian character who is supposed to have founded the city. Historically, the city might exist since the 7th century B.C.
_*Constantinople*_ was given its name by the emperor Constantine the Great (_Constantino-polis_ = city of Constantine), to be the capital city of his empire in the 4th century A.D.
And *Istanbul *is derived from Greek "εἰς τὴν Πόλιν", which meant "_to the city_", because this is how Constantinople was referred to by the local Greeks. Until 1928, _Stamboul _was used to refer to the old districts of Constantinople, and then Atatürk, founder of the Republic of Turkey, extended the name _İstanbul _to the whole modern city.


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## Zareza

*Bizanț*    ///    *Constantinopol*    ///    *Țarigrad*    ///    *Stambul*    ///   *Istanbul

ț=tz*


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## sound shift

Yendred said:


> Until 1928, _Stamboul _was used to refer to the old districts of Constantinople, and then Atatürk, founder of the Republic of Turkey, extended the name _İstanbul _to the whole modern city.


Yes, and around that time he forbade the Post Office to deliver mail bearing the word 'Constantinople' in the address. Only 'Istanbul' was acceptable.


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## JoMe

Hebrew:
Modern: Istanbul. Earlier - also Istambul.
Pre-modern: Cushta = "(the city of) truth", short form of "Coshtandina", apparently from Constantinople.


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## Perseas

Yendred said:


> _*Byzantium *_takes its name from Byzas, a mythological Thracian character who is supposed to have founded the city. Historically, the city might exist since the 7th century B.C.


Hi!
Byzas, the legendary founder of Byzantium, was not a Thracian but a citizen of Megara (a town located 40 km west of Athens).


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## Zareza

Welsh_Sion said:


> A true story involving my mum's late cousin (who tended to hen peck her poor husband). Often, to avoid this, he would flee to the local pub, 'The Bull'. When his wife was asked where her husband was, she'd reply,
> 
> "Mae o'n ista'n Bull"
> Is he-in-the-state-of sitting-in-the-state-of Bull
> ( = He's sitting in the Bull)
> 
> Not bad, no? And proof she could laugh at herself despite her carping!


Great story !!



Chazzwozzer said:


> *Florya *is next to Yeşilköy, but its name is not Turkish.


Florya's name, according to the Byzantine scholar Michael Psellos, who found it cited in an imperial Chrysobull, comes from the Greek word "Phlorion". It derives possibly by a certain Florus, who lived in this neighborhood during the early Byzantine age.


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