# Sayings - modi di dire



## onetwothreegood

Hey everybody. 

 When i want to translate an english quote into italian, do you just need to learn them in italian, as i have noticed you say "sogni d'oro"  where  in english you would say 'sweet dreams' instead or something along those lines. 

 So is saying sweet dreams in italian non existant? 

 Also i read somewhere on here you wouldnt call someone 'dolce cuore'! 

 So the qeustion is... is it always best to learn sayings in italian instead of translating them directly from english?


----------



## Alfry

that's right!!
the same is for English sayings!!

you say:
if I was in your shoes = "se fossi nelle tue scarpe", Italians would never say that!

we say "se fossi nei tuoi panni" = "if I was in your clothes" 

maybe both of us would understand what we was trying to translate but none of us would have said that way!!!


----------



## onetwothreegood

oh really.

 You learn something every day!

 Do you know of a web site where i can find such things like that or will i have to learn them over time as i come across them?


----------



## Alfry

Sincerelly I don't know and more sincerelly I'd love to know that too.

Maybe someone else can help us!!!

let's seat and wait!!!!


----------



## Silvia

I guess there must be books about Italian/English idioms/expressions/sayings... personally, I'd prefer to learn over time, isn't that the good part about learning? 

And anyway, you've just started a thread about this, so let's take advantage of it!


----------



## Alfry

silviap said:
			
		

> I guess there must be books about Italian/English idioms/expressions/sayings... personally, I'd prefer to learn over time, isn't that the good part about learning?
> 
> And anyway, you've just started a thread about this, so let's take advantage of it!


I utterly agree.
let's use this thread to all possible sayings.

who's going to start?


----------



## DDT

onetwothreegood said:
			
		

> Hey everybody.
> 
> When i want to translate an english quote into italian, do you just need to learn them in italian, as i have noticed you say "sogni d'oro"  where  in english you would say 'sweet dreams' instead or something along those lines.
> 
> So is saying sweet dreams in italian non existant?
> 
> Also i read somewhere on here you wouldnt call someone 'dolce cuore'!
> 
> So the qeustion is... is it always best to learn sayings in italian instead of translating them directly from english?



"Sweet dreams" doesn't make sense litteraly. "Dolce cuore" ("sweetheart" I argue) neither, it can be rendered as "tesoro" or simply "amore"

DDT


----------



## onetwothreegood

silviap said:
			
		

> I guess there must be books about Italian/English idioms/expressions/sayings... personally, I'd prefer to learn over time, isn't that the good part about learning?
> 
> And anyway, you've just started a thread about this, so let's take advantage of it!


 
 learning slowly is good. nothing like the feeling you get when you learn something new in a different language to your own.


----------



## lsp

silviap said:
			
		

> Chi fa da sè, fa per tre


...means what exactly?

Should we all add some expression/s we know? 

Like the English expression "Knock wood" or "knock on wood" for luck = the Italian expression "Tocca ferro (touch iron)."


----------



## Alfry

onetwothreegood said:
			
		

> learning slowly is good. nothing like the feeling you get when you learn something new in a different language to your own.


well this can be discussed...
what about a big dish full of spaghetti aglio, olio e peperoncino?


----------



## Silvia

Chi fa da sè, fa per tre = (literally) he who does (things) on his own, he does for three (people) it means:

If you do something by yourself, you can do what 3 people could do!

It should correspond to the English:
If you want a thing (well) done, do it yourself


----------



## leenico

> I utterly agree.
> let's use this thread to all possible sayings.
> who's going to start?


 I don't mind starting. Here's a few.  

A buon intenditor poche parole.
A word to the wise is sufficient.

A caval donato non si guarda in bocca.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

A chi dai il dito si prende anche il braccio.
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.


----------



## Merlino

Hey, I like this topic  I'll throw in a few too:

*Paesi che vai, usanza che trovi*
When in Rome, do as the Romans do

*Meglio tardi che mai*
Better late than never

*Ride bene chi ride l'ultimo*
He who laughs last laughs best


----------



## lsp

*Quando il gatto manca, i topi ballano.* (When the cat is missing, the mice dance.)
When the cat's away, the mice will play.

*L'abito non fa il monaco.* (The habit doesn't make a monk.)
Clothes don't make the man.
or 
You can't tell a book by it's cover

There's one that goes something like 
"l'erba del vicino è sempre più verde"?

In English we say, 
The grass is always greener on the other side.


----------



## Silvia

*Chi va con  lo zoppo impara a zoppicare*
He that dwells next door to a cripple will learn to halt

*Piove sempre sul bagnato*
It never rains but it pours

*Meglio un uovo oggi che una gallina domani*
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

*Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi * (un po' fuori moda/a little oldfashioned)
Better wed over the mixen than over the moor

*Fra/tra moglie e marito non metter il dito*
Never interfere between wife and husband

*Tanto va la gatta al lardo che ci lascia lo zampino*
Curiosity killed the cat

*Lasciar stare il can che dorme*
Let sleeping dogs lie

*Can che abbaia non morde*
Barking dogs seldom bite or his bark is worse than his bite

*Chi dorme non piglia pesci*
The early bird catches the worm

*Campa cavallo che l'erba cresce*
While grass grows the horse starves

*Campa cavallo!*
That'll be the day!

*Tutte le strade portano a Roma*
All roads lead to Rome

*Chi lascia la strada vecchia per la nuova sa quel che lascia, ma non sa quel che trova*
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know

*Il diavolo fa le pentole ma non i coperchi*
Truth will out

*Saperne una più del diavolo*
To give points to the devil

*Parli del diavolo e spuntano le corna*
(For this one I don't know the English version, it's when you're talking of someone and, all of a sudden, he/she shows up) Speaking of the devil...

*Prendere due piccioni con una fava*
To kill two birds with one stone


----------



## Graziella

"Il silenzo è d'oro e la parola è d'argento"

"Tra il dire e il fare c'è di mezzo il mare"

Chi lo puo tradurre? Baci


----------



## Alfry

I wasn't hanging around...
my contribution:
non si ruba a casa del ladro = there's honour amond thieves
a chi vuole non mancano i modi = where there is a will there is a way 
Aiutati che dio ti aiuta = God helps thosewho help themselves
un amico si vede nel momento del bisogno = a friend in need is a friend indeed
tra il dire ed il fare c'è di mezzo il mare = easier said than done
a mali estremi estremi rimedi = desperatediseases must have desperate remedies
Ambasciator non porta pena = messengers should neither be headed nor hanged

a tutto c'è rimedio fuorchè alla morte (finchè c'è vita c'è speranza)= while there's life, there's hope



			
				Graziella said:
			
		

> "Il silenzo è d'oro e la parola è d'argento"
> 
> "Tra il dire e il fare c'è di mezzo il mare" = easier said than done
> 
> Chi lo puo tradurre? Baci


I don't know "Il silenzo è d'oro e la parola è d'argento"


----------



## onetwothreegood

supposed to be 'silence is golden and words are silver' i presume.

although, i'v never heard the second half. i'v only known 'silence is golden'


----------



## Alfry

well done.

neither have I!!! only "il silenzio è d'oro" that is, a polite way to say "shut up"


a second flood of sayings


bacco tabacco e venere riducono l'uomo in cenere = gaming women and wine, while they laugh they make men pine (but what are you living for without? my opinion  )

batti il ferro finchè è caldo = strike while the iron is hot 

buon sangue non mente = blood will tell

chi ben comincia è a metà dell'opera = well begun is half done

chi cerca trova = nothing seek nothing find

chi di spada ferisce di spada perisce = he that strikes with the sword, shall be striken 

with the scabbard

chi dorme non piglia pesci = the early bird catches the worm

chi è causa del suo mal pianga se stesso = as you make your bed, so you must lie on it


chi ha avuto ha avuto e chi ha dato ha dato = let bygones be bygones

chiodo scaccia chiodo = one nail drives out another

can che abbaia non morde = his bark is worse than his bite

il buon vino fa buon sangue = good wine engendreth good blood

campa cavallo che l'erba cresce = while grass grows the horse starves


----------



## onetwothreegood

La gente in case di vetro non dovrebbe gettare le pietre??? (i didnt write this one so don't know if its right or not)
 Una volta un ladro sempre un ladro


----------



## Alfry

Graziella said:
			
		

> "Il silenzo è d'oro e la parola è d'argento"


i got it

silence is golden, speech is silvern


----------



## Silvia

Alfry hai ripetuto i proverbi che avevo già scritto... ahi ahi ahi 

*Hai voluto la bicicletta? Pedala!*
Did you ask for a bike? Then ride it!  (this one can be used on several occasions, the other native Italians could supply you with some examples)

*Non c'è due senza tre*
Misfortunes never come singly

Alfry, qualche commento, se mi permetti.

*non si ruba a casa del ladro* (this is not very used)
there's honour among thieves

*a chi vuole non mancano i modi* (almost never heard)
*Basta la volontà* o *volere è potere*
where there is a will there is a way

*Aiutati che Dio t'aiuta* o *Aiutati che il ciel t'aiuta*
(I guess it comes from the very oldfashioned "Cuor contento il ciel l'aiuta")
God helps thosewho help themselves

*un amico si vede nel momento del bisogno*
(I would say) *gli amici si vedono nel momento del bisogno*
a friend in need is a friend indeed

*Cielo a pecorelle, acqua a catinelle*
I guess there's no saying in English, it means: mackerel sky, heavy rains

*Rosso di sera, bel tempo si spera*
Red sky at night, shepherd's delight

*Non stare né in cielo né in terra* (for something unreal/madness)
To have neither rhyme nor reason


----------



## Alfry

silviap said:
			
		

> Alfry hai ripetuto i proverbi che avevo già scritto... ahi ahi ahi


è che li ho scritti su un txt e li sto anche ordinando, correggendo... poi ovviamente non ricordo più cosa ho scritto e cerco di fare i puzzle, poi mi stufo e copio e incollo indiscriminatamente.

sono programmato per fare al massimo una cosa per volta...
pardon


----------



## Silvia

*Chi rompe paga e i cocci sono suoi*
You've made your bed, now you must lie on it


----------



## lsp

What's the one about cesare that eqautes to the English, *Credit where credit is due*?


----------



## walnut

I don't remember the exact words... 'Date a Cesare quel che è di Cesare'? 
 I couldn't swear about, but hope it helps!  Ciao, Walnut


----------



## lsp

That's the one, thanks! So I'll leave another...

*Finchè c'è vita c'è speranza*
Where there's life there's hope


----------



## Silvia

*Dare a Cesare quel che è di Cesare*
Credit where credit is due

*Avere la coda di paglia*
To have a guilty conscience

*Tirar(e) l'acqua al proprio mulino*
To bring grist to one's mill, to have an axe to grind


----------



## lsp

This is fun.

*Un punto in tempo ne risparmia cento* warn: unheard of )
A stitch in time saves nine


----------



## DDT

onetwothreegood said:
			
		

> can you tell me why? i mean if you were saying a house is white, you would put 'casa bianca' but why wouldnt you say 'un gioco buon' when saying a game is good?



As soon as you find an Italian word not ending by a vowel, that means that's a particular use. This case, for instance - as for "bello" which becomes "bel" in such an expression as "un bel gioco dura poco" ("don't carry the joke too far") - the adjective cannot but preceding the noun because generally you can't have an Italian sentence not ending by a vowel, moreover it would sound odd! That's not a grammar rule, but I hope it might help you to understand 

DDT


----------



## DDT

Did anyone already mention "rough play is low"? That corresponds to the Italian "gioco di mano, gioco di villano"

DDT


----------



## onetwothreegood

Ah thank you DDT! 


 My italian grammer book is designed for people who already know italian at university level, so i'm a little slow at reading it as it starts explaining noun genders in italian right at the start. which is good, seeing as i know a little bit, i know a lot more now.


----------



## Alfry

DDT said:
			
		

> Et voilà!!! Scoperta in finis l'identità segreta del sedicente membro "alfry" aka "Alfredo": SEI UN COMPUTER!!!?!
> 
> DDT


argh......
sono un registratore di cassa
mi avete beccato


----------



## Silvia

*Tempo al tempo*
All in good time
Let things take their course
Don't rush it


----------



## lsp

DDT said:
			
		

> *Paese che vai, usanza che trovi!
> When in Rome, do as the Romans do!* DDT


Couldn't resist grabbing this from the zucchini/sweetest thread for our collection!


----------



## paolorausch

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Italian_proverbs

 There is a huge page with these already, go ahead and add some of your own! Wikipedia allows for anyone to make changes. They have these in several languages, and I think the addition of these would do well!


----------



## Silvia

Paolo, why don't you do that instead of urging people to do that?! Io sono già abbastanza presa col mio lavoro qui  Grazie!

P.S.: L'intento non è quello di copiare da altri siti, ma di avere un archivio nostro, molto più ampio e corretto, inoltre ho notato che quella lista che hai fornito contiene anche dei proverbi dialettali, non credo faccia al caso nostro. Infine, la lista che stavamo cercando di stilare contiene non solo proverbi, ma anche modi di dire e frasi idiomatiche, credo che questo progetto possa avere ulteriori sviluppi con l'anno nuovo... ma non voglio anticipare nulla per ora.

Ciao e buon divertimento!


----------



## Alfry

"to put the cart before the horse" = "mettere il carro davanti ai buoi"

'to be at the fruit course' = 'essere alla frutta'


----------



## Merlino

_il buo che dice cornuto all'asino_ - "The pot calling the kettle black"

Is there a shorter version of "La gatta frettolosa fece i gattini ciechi." (haste makes waste)? f.e. in Dutch this translates into "haastige spoed is zelden goed," but we usually only say "haastige spoed..."


----------



## Alfry

Merlino said:
			
		

> _il buo che dice cornuto all'asino_ - "The pot calling the kettle black"
> 
> Is there a shorter version of "La gatta frettolosa fece i gattini ciechi." (haste makes waste)? f.e. in Dutch this translates into "haastige spoed is zelden goed," but we usually only say "haastige spoed..."


we say 'bue'
in Italian there is not a shorter version, I think


----------



## perusa69

why dont you try this site: http://www.kocher.pro.br/italo/italo_e.htm

i am new on this thing but what you want to learn is call proverbi/sayings italiani;
thay are alphabetically highlited easy to learn. they do not have the translation in english as i noticed you have a vast understanding of the italian leanguage. this will help you lots to learn the language you want.

buona fortuna


----------



## lsp

An excellent list, to be sure perusa69, but I don't think we seek only a list of proverbs, nor do we want only to translate the words or the meanings. We often wish also to know if an equivalent idiomatic expression exists in the other language.


----------



## Alfry

thanks Perusa69, 
but the goal of this thread and of whatever whould come from it is a database (or similar) that we can use and improve.
as a result we can learn them while we deal with them.


----------



## Silvia

perusa69 said:
			
		

> i am new on this thing but what you want to learn is call proverbi/sayings italiani;
> thay are alphabetically highlited easy to learn. this will help you lots to learn the language you want.


 I had a look at the first page and I can tell you I've never heard anyone of the sayings mentioned there. I believe those sayings come from Brasil, or they have been translated from some other foreign language. Anyway they are not part of everyday speech. So I'm not sure what use you could make of them. I'm sure you can learn some Italian through them, but on the other hand I noticed there are some mistakes...
per farla breve, se sei realmente intenzionata ad imparare l'italiano, fai attenzione ad affidare tale responsabilità ad un sito web straniero.


----------



## 3andone

My Italian mother in law had a favorite saying that I want to write on my livingroom wall. I failed to have her write it down for me before she passed away. Any help would be great!
In english it is :
Because I have been given much, I too must give.
Seems like in Italian it is heaven given.
anyway, thanks in advance!


----------



## miri

Some more:
Fra i due litiganti il terzo gode= two dogs strive for a bone and a third runs away with it
E' l'ultima goccia che fa traboccare il vaso= the last drop makes the cup run over
E' inutile piangere sul latte versato= it's no use crying over spilt milk
Ferisce più la lingua che la spada= words cut more than swords
Mani fredde, cuore caldo= a cold hand and a warm heart
Il lupo perde il pelo ma non il vizio= can the leopard change its spots? (I like this one!)
Il sangue non è acqua= blood is thicker than water
Meglio poco che niente= half a loaf is better than no bread


----------



## astridula

onetwothreegood said:
			
		

> hmm what about
> 
> un gioco rapido è un buon gioco
> 
> Would it be better 'un buon gioco' or 'un gioco buon'?



I know this version:

Un bel gioco dura poco.

something like: a good game lasts little.


----------



## Manuela

Hi I got these 2

*sono tra l'incudine e il martello * = I'm between a rock and a hard place
*la goccia che fa traboccare il vaso* = the straw that broke the camel's back

I'm thinking..I'm thinking..

*Ha le mani bucate*= (the money is burning) a hole in his pocket

*Una mano lava l'altra e tutte due la faccia* = one hand washes the other, but both wash the face.
*me ne lavo le mani*= I want nothing to do with it
*Non fare il passo piu` lungo della gamba*= don't bite more than you can chew
*OPPURE*
*Bisogna fare il passo secondo la lunghezza della gamba per non strappare i pantaloni*= If your step matches your legs you won't split your pants


----------



## Panpan

Silvia said:
			
		

> *Parli del diavolo e spuntano le corna*
> (For this one I don't know the English version, it's when you're talking of someone and, all of a sudden, he/she shows up) Speaking of the devil...


 
Talk of the devil, and he's at your elbow.

Panpan


----------



## mimitabby

Volere e' Potere

If you want something badly enough, you can do it...


----------



## ikester

mimitabby said:
			
		

> Volere e' Potere
> 
> If you want something badly enough, you can do it...


or, "Where there's a will, there's a way."



			
				winnie said:
			
		

> ike, this is another one for you:
> 
> tanto tuonò che piovve!
> 
> any clue?


I'm not familiar with that one... just reading it, I get the sense of "we should have known (from the signs) that this was coming". Is that the meaning?

ciao,


----------



## walnut

"Tanto tuonò che piovve" is hilarious, by my point of view, because it's pompous and lyrical! It's a sort of logical evolution of "much ado about nothing" as in "first it was much ado about nothing... but then it really happened!"

ciao


----------



## Silvia

Merlino said:
			
		

> *Ride bene chi ride l'ultimo ultimo*
> He who laughs last laughs best





			
				lsp said:
			
		

> *Quando il gatto manca la gatta non c'è, i topi ballano.*
> 
> *L'abito non fa il monaco.*
> You can't tell a book by it's *its* cover





			
				Alfry said:
			
		

> non si ruba a casa del ladro = there's honour amond *among* thieves


 
*Chi va con lo zoppo impara a zoppicare*
Bad company brings bad habit

*Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire*
(There are) none so deaf as those who/that will not hear

*Non rimandare mai a domani quello che potresti fare oggi*
Never put off till/to tomorrow what you can do today

*Il troppo stroppia*
Too much breaks the bag
Enough is as good as a feast
You can have too much of a good thing

*Chi troppo vuole nulla stringe*
Grasp all, lose all

*Il mattino ha l'oro in bocca*
Early to bed, early to rise

*Il buon giorno si vede dal mattino*
A good beginning bodes well

*Gallo che canta ha fatto l'uovo*
(? Who feels like explaining this one?!)

*Marzo pazzerello, un giorno brutto un giorno bello*
(March is changeable, one day is bad, the other is nice)

*Aprile, non ti scoprire*
ne’er cast a clout till May be out

*Maggio, vai adagio*
ne’er cast a clout till May be out

*Agosto, moglie mia non ti conosco*
(in August, I want to be free)

*Chi semina raccoglie*
You mow what you sow

*Chi semina raccoglie* (solo in senso negativo)
Sow thin and mow thin
He that does not sow, does not mow 

*Chi semina vento raccoglie tempesta*
Sow the wind and rip the whirlwind

*Se son rose fioriranno*
Time will tell

*Non c'è rosa senza spine*
There is no rose without a thorn

*Predicare bene e razzolare male*
Not to practise what one preaches

*(E') nella botte piccola (che) c'è il vino buono*


*Non dire quattro se non l'hai nel sacco*
Don't count your chickens before they're hatched

*Chi trova un amico trova un tesoro*
A good friend is worth his weight in gold

*Bocca mia (o ventre mio) fatti capanna!*
Tuck in!

*Non è tutt'oro quel che luccica*
All that glitters is not gold

*La mela marcia cade sempre vicino all'albero*
You can't make a silk's purse out of a sow's ear

*Una mela al giorno toglie il medico di torno*
One apple a day takes the doctor away

*Sacco vuoto non sta in piedi*
You can't work on an empty stomach

*Fare i conti senza l'oste*
To count one's chickens before they're hatched

*La lingua batte dove il dente duole*
The tongue ever turns to the aching tooth

*Occhio non vede cuore non duole - Lontano dagli occhi lontano dal cuore*
What the eye sees not, the heart rues not

*Non si può avere tutto dalla vita - volere la botte piena e la moglie ubriaca*
You can't have your cake and eat it too


----------



## Elisa68

Silvia said:
			
		

> *Gallo Gallina che canta ha fatto l'uovo*
> (? Who feels like explaining this one?!)


Un gallo che fa l'uovo è un po' difficile da trovare (anche se con la genetica moderna tutto è possibile!)  

Comunque credo che si riferisca al fatto che la prima persona che denuncia un misfatto è stata in realtà la prima a commetterlo.


----------



## lsp

I'd nearly forgotten about this thread, it's been so long since it saw the light of day. You must have learned English BE style. First clue, I notice you spell practice with an 's'. Also, I have never heard of many of the English versions you've cited. In fact I can't even imagine what Tuck in! means, or ne’er cast a clout till May be out. A few of them that I do know I took the liberty to patch up. 





			
				Silvia said:
			
		

> *Chi va con lo zoppo impara a zoppicare*
> Bad company brings bad habits
> 
> *Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire*
> (There are) none so deaf as those who/that will not hear
> 
> *Non rimandare mai a domani quello che potresti fare oggi*
> Never put off till/to tomorrow what you can do today
> 
> *Il troppo stroppia*
> Too much breaks the bag
> Enough is as good as a feast
> You can have too much of a good thing
> 
> *Chi troppo vuole nulla stringe*
> Grasp all, lose all
> 
> *Il mattino ha l'oro in bocca*
> Early to bed, early to rise
> 
> *Il buon giorno si vede dal mattino*
> A good beginning bodes well
> 
> *Gallo che canta ha fatto l'uovo*
> (? Who feels like explaining this one?!)
> 
> *Marzo pazzerello, un giorno brutto un giorno bello*
> (March is changeable, one day is bad, the other is nice)
> 
> *Aprile, non ti scoprire*
> ne’er cast a clout till May be out
> 
> *Maggio, vai adagio*
> ne’er cast a clout till May be out
> 
> *Agosto, moglie mia non ti conosco*
> (in August, I want to be free)
> 
> *Chi semina raccoglie*
> You mow what you sow
> 
> *Chi semina raccoglie* (solo in senso negativo)
> Sow thin and mow thin
> He that does not sow, does not mow
> 
> *Chi semina vento raccoglie tempesta*
> Sow the wind and rip the whirlwind
> 
> *Se son rose fioriranno*
> Time will tell
> 
> *Non c'è rosa senza spine*
> There is no rose without a thorn
> 
> *Predicare bene e razzolare male*
> Not to practise what one preaches
> 
> *(E') nella botte piccola (che) c'è il vino buono*
> 
> 
> *Non dire quattro se non l'hai nel sacco*
> Don't count your chickens before they're hatched
> 
> *Chi trova un amico trova un tesoro*
> A good friend is worth his weight in gold
> 
> *Bocca mia (o ventre mio) fatti capanna!*
> Tuck in!
> 
> *Non è tutt'oro quel che luccica*
> All that glitters is not gold
> 
> *La mela marcia cade sempre vicino all'albero*
> You can't make a silk's  silk purse out of a sow's ear
> 
> *Una mela al giorno toglie il medico di torno*
> One An apple a day takes keeps the doctor away
> 
> *Sacco vuoto non sta in piedi*
> You can't work on an empty stomach
> 
> *Fare i conti senza l'oste*
> To count one's chickens before they're hatched
> 
> *La lingua batte dove il dente duole*
> The tongue ever turns to the aching tooth
> 
> *Occhio non vede cuore non duole - Lontano dagli occhi lontano dal cuore*
> What the eye sees not, the heart rues not
> 
> *Non si può avere tutto dalla vita - volere la botte piena e la moglie ubriaca*
> You can't have your cake and eat it too


----------



## Silvia

Thank you, lsp. Some of them explain the meaning, but they are not English sayings...


----------



## cristina29

Buona sera a tutti! 

Esula dalla discussione così come finora l'avete articolata, ma si riferisce sempre ai modi di dire quindi vi scrivo.

Vorrei chiedere agli utenti di lingua inglese del forum come vengano percepiti, quando tradotti letteralmente in inglese (e poi spiegati) modi di dire italiani che non vorrei però tradurre con il loro 'più simile' modo di dire inglese, ma proprio tradurre letteralmente dall'italiano (e poi appunto spiegare) per mantenere il colore, la sfumatura e l'ironia della versione italiana.

Vi faccio un esempio: "fare le nozze con i fichi secchi" si renderebbe in inglese con "to do (sthg.) on a shoestring". Ma sei io traducessi letteralmente "to do the wedding with dried figs" e poi spiegassi che cosa si intende, come verrebbe percepita tal traduzione? 
Sarebbe sentita come divertente? Fastidiosa? Piacevole? Non appropriata?

Vorrei sapere le vostre sensazioni perché sto scrivendo un paper accademico, e man mano mi vengono in mente inserti/titoli da modi di dire italiani, e non mi dispiacerebbe usare un po' di ironia in un discorso accademico facendone appunto una traduzione letterale che poi spiegherei anche subito.

Che mi dite? 

Cari saluti!


----------



## theartichoke

cristina29 said:


> Vi faccio un esempio: "fare le nozze con i fichi secchi" si renderebbe in inglese con "to do (sthg.) on a shoestring". Ma sei io traducessi letteralmente "to do the wedding with dried figs" e poi spiegassi che cosa si intende, come verrebbe percepita tal traduzione?
> Sarebbe sentita come divertente? Fastidiosa? Piacevole? Non appropriata?



Hi Cristina,

Maybe I'm just speaking for myself here, but I would say that most English speakers find the literal translation of other languages' proverbs and sayings to be charming, and to offer insights into the culture in question that translated "equivalents" don't offer. I happen to own a board game, called "Wise and Otherwise," based on trying to guess the second half of literally-translated sayings.

That said, could you give us more context, namely an example of how one of these literally translated sayings would fit into the academic paper you're writing? The full sentence, for instance, where you'll be using the "fichi secchi" saying, with perhaps the sentences before and after it.

The other thing you may want to think about is tweaking the literal translations just a little so that they sound like idiomatic English even while conveying the same exact meaning: for instance, in English we don't talk about "doing the wedding," so you might translate it as "getting married with dried figs" (though that sounds a bit odd too!).


----------



## pebblespebbles

Hi theartichocke , 
"Fare le nozze coi fichi secchi" means : to give the people invited to the wedding party , dried figs to eat only"....maybe you can find a better solution to say that in English.


----------



## theartichoke

pebblespebbles said:


> Hi theartichocke ,
> "Fare le nozze coi fichi secchi" means : to give the people invited to the wedding party , dried figs to eat only"....maybe you can find a better solution to say that in English.



Don't worry--I got the meaning. I was just trying to find a way of saying it that was closer to the original than a long, literal explanation like "getting married and serving only dried figs at the reception." You can use "with" in similar contexts: _They got married with a second-hand suit and a veil made out of curtains _or _they got married with five guests and a homemade cake. _Very different from getting married _to _a second-hand suit or a homemade cake, if that's what you were thinking. The trouble is that "dried figs" don't immediately conjure up poverty and getting married "on a shoestring" the way that second-hand suits, for instance, do. In my part of the world, you pay good money for dried figs as an imported treat!


----------



## pebblespebbles

theartichoke said:


> You can use "with" in similar contexts: _They got married with a second-hand suit and a veil made out of curtains _or _they got married with five guests and a homemade cake. _Very different from getting married _to _a second-hand suit or a homemade cake, if that's what you were thinking.


 yes, that was what I thought ...to/with makes the difference, OK, thank you!
Dried figs are a treat here too, specially back in the days, but they are not enough for a wedding party...


----------



## MR1492

Silvia said:


> *Non c'è rosa senza spine*
> There is no rose without a thorn
> 
> _Every rose has its thorns._
> 
> 
> *(E') nella botte piccola (che) c'è il vino buono
> *
> _Good things come in small packages._



Added one additional AE version about the roses and an equivalent to the little barrel question.

Phil


----------



## Odysseus54

cristina29 said:


> Buona sera a tutti!
> 
> Esula dalla discussione così come finora l'avete articolata, ma si riferisce sempre ai modi di dire quindi vi scrivo.
> 
> Vorrei chiedere agli utenti di lingua inglese del forum come vengano percepiti, quando tradotti letteralmente in inglese (e poi spiegati) modi di dire italiani che non vorrei però tradurre con il loro 'più simile' modo di dire inglese, ma proprio tradurre letteralmente dall'italiano (e poi appunto spiegare) per mantenere il colore, la sfumatura e l'ironia della versione italiana.
> 
> Vi faccio un esempio: "fare le nozze con i fichi secchi" si renderebbe in inglese con "to do (sthg.) on a shoestring". Ma sei io traducessi letteralmente "to do the wedding with dried figs" e poi spiegassi che cosa si intende, come verrebbe percepita tal traduzione?
> Sarebbe sentita come divertente? Fastidiosa? Piacevole? Non appropriata?
> 
> Vorrei sapere le vostre sensazioni perché sto scrivendo un paper accademico, e man mano mi vengono in mente inserti/titoli da modi di dire italiani, e non mi dispiacerebbe usare un po' di ironia in un discorso accademico facendone appunto una traduzione letterale che poi spiegherei anche subito.
> 
> Che mi dite?
> 
> Cari saluti!



La mia sensazione, da Italiano vissuto negli USA per la maggior parte della mia vita da adulto, e' che cercare di spiegare i modi di dire italiani potra' suscitare qualche interesse di cortesia per i primi trenta secondi.  Eviterei pero' di mettermi a dissertare su "Chi non risica, non rosica", "Tanto va la gatta al lardo che ci lascia lo zampino", "Chi tardi arriva male alloggia" ecc ecc.  Verrebbe preso male.  Piu' precisamente, la mia esperienza e' che verrebbe vissuto come una rottura di scatole, un'imposizione.

Ovviamente la mia e' un'impressione che riguarda quello che ho capito degli americani per quello che li ho frequentati in 28 anni.  Non e' il risultato di un'inchiesta.

I think this is one of those situations where you better be 'here' or 'there'.  Idioms are shortcuts - that's their purpose.  You can't turn them into a roundabout explanation of concepts and attitudes that nobody is really interested in in the first place, I am afraid


----------



## metazoan

cristina29 said:


> come verrebbe percepita tal traduzione?
> Sarebbe sentita come divertente? Fastidiosa? Piacevole? Non appropriata?





Odysseus54 said:


> Idioms are shortcuts - that's their purpose.  You can't turn them into a roundabout explanation of concepts and attitudes that nobody is really interested in in the first place, I am afraid


Please, for us culture-starved Americans, these direct translations with explanation serve as some sort of insight, even if into an Italy that may be from long ago or maybe never was. It's not scholarship, but still fun. Better to understand than not to. In other words, at least some of us are interested. 
Some of our own sayings, phrases, and words show a side of medieval England. Again, the etymologies are easy to ignore but some of us find them interesting.


----------

