# Persian: to believe



## maleconnevskiprospekt

Hi out there,

what is the best translation for to believe? Since I have 2 dictionnaries with 2 different versions:
etteqat dasjtan or ettemat dasjtan?

thanks, Jan

* I am currently working on a free on,line course Dutch-Persian. I use my other lessonbooks, Spanish and Russian to collect all the words.


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## colognial

Hello, maleconnevskiprospekt!

_Eteghaad daashtan_ is certainly correct here. _Etemaad daashtan_ basically means 'to have confidence (in)', also 'to trust'. 

However, on occasion you may find that a speaker or writer will use _etemaad daashtan_ in the sense of 'to have a firm conviction'.


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## fdb

There is also a “genuine Persian” verb girawīdan, but I think it is not much used in modern Persian.


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## Jervoltage

fdb said:


> There is also a “genuine Persian” verb girawīdan, but I think it is not much used in modern Persian.



It is still in common usage, especially in the sense of 'to convert'.


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## OmidTavana

Well, I think "Bavar dasjtan" (باور داشتن) is a better translation that fits between "etteqat dasjtan" and "ettemat dasjtan". Because in english you use "to believe" in two different meanings for example
1- I believe in God --> Be khoda etteqat/bavar daram
2- I believe you (when you mean I think you are telling the truth) --> Be to ettemat/bavar daram


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## colognial

OmidTavana said:


> 2- I believe you (when you mean I think you are telling the truth) --> Be to ettemat/bavar daram



OmidTavana, I don't think 'baavar daashtan' means 'to believe'. Rather, it is equivalent to 'to believe in'. In Persian, we do not say, for 'I believe you', 'be to baavar daaram', not unless we are actually speaking bad Persian, which, I admit, happens quite often. 

Furthermore, referring to your example quoted above, 'be to etemaad daaram' simply means 'I trust you'. It does not mean 'I believe you'. Of course, usually when you believe the words of an individual, you do so because you trust them to speak truthfully. However, strictly speaking, these are two different statements, whether said in Persian or spoken in English.


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## Jervoltage

colognial said:


> OmidTavana, I don't think 'baavar daashtan' means 'to believe'. Rather, it is equivalent to 'to believe in'. In Persian, we do not say, for 'I believe you', 'be to baavar daaram', not unless we are actually speaking bad Persian, which, I admit, happens quite often.



I beg to differ. باور داشتن means 'to think of sth as true' which, I think, is better covered by the word 'to believe', e.g. Don't believe a word of it = یک کلمش رو هم باور نکن.


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## colognial

Jervoltage said:


> I beg to differ. باور داشتن means 'to think  of sth as true' which, I think, is better covered by the word 'to  believe', e.g. Don't believe a word of it = یک کلمش رو هم باور  نکن.



I know, Jervoltage. You are right. Except, taken in  the context (of the example given), the verb 'baavar daashtan' is no  longer quite covering the sense of the English verb. When English  speakers say "I believe you", it does not translate into the Persian  sentence "be to baavar daaram". Neither, for that matter, does it  translate into "be to etemaad daaram". 

In Persian the same English sentence would find its equivalent in "حرف تو را باور می کنم" = "Harf e to raa baavar mikonam".


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## OmidTavana

@colognial: If you search for "believe" in google translate you get this:



And these are the first seven example (out of ten) of Webster for "believe"


The scientists _believed_ the reports. --> دانشمندان گزارش را باور کردند.
Many people seem to _believe_ that theory, but I find it hard to_believe_. خیلی از مردم به نظر این داستان را باور کرده‌اند، اما به نظر من باورش سخت است.
You shouldn't _believe_ everything you read. --> نباید هر چه را می‌شنوی باور کنی
He says he'll help us, but I don't _believe_ what he says. --> گفت که به ما کمک می‌کند، ولی من گفته‌هایش را باور نمی‌کنم
They were tricked into _believing_ that he was a doctor. --> گولشان زد تا باور کنند او یک دکتر است.
He says he'll help us, but I don't _believe_ him. --> گفت که به ما کمک می‌کند، ولی باورش نمی‌کنم
She went to church because her family expected it, but she didn't really _believe_. --> به کلیسا رفت چون خانواده‌اش چنین انتظاری داشتند، اما به آن باور (اعتقاد) نداشت


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## Jervoltage

colognial said:


> I know, Jervoltage. You are right. Except, taken in  the context (of the example given), the verb 'baavar daashtan' is no  longer quite covering the sense of the English verb. When English  speakers say "I believe you", it does not translate into the Persian  sentence "be to baavar daaram". Neither, for that matter, does it  translate into "be to etemaad daaram".
> 
> In Persian the same English sentence would find its equivalent in "حرف تو را باور می کنم" = "Harf e to raa baavar mikonam".



I can see what you mean, but I think that even the word 'believe' as in "I believe you" can be well rendered as باور داشتن. Have a look at these couplets I found in the entry for باور داشتن in Dehkhoda:

گرگ مردمخوار گشتست این جهان
بنگر اینک گر نداری باورم

بی توام شادیی نخواهد بود
ای شگفتی که داردم باور
​


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## colognial

OmidTavana said:


> @colognial: If you search for "believe" in google translate you get this:
> View attachment 14120
> 
> And these are the first seven example (out of ten) of Webster for "believe"
> 
> 
> The scientists _believed_ the reports. --> دانشمندان گزارش را باور کردند.
> Many people seem to _believe_ that theory, but I find it hard to_believe_. خیلی از مردم به نظر این داستان را باور کرده‌اند، اما به نظر من باورش سخت است.
> You shouldn't _believe_ everything you read. --> نباید هر چه را می‌شنوی باور کنی
> He says he'll help us, but I don't _believe_ what he says. --> گفت که به ما کمک می‌کند، ولی من گفته‌هایش را باور نمی‌کنم
> They were tricked into _believing_ that he was a doctor. --> گولشان زد تا باور کنند او یک دکتر است.
> He says he'll help us, but I don't _believe_ him. --> گفت که به ما کمک می‌کند، ولی باورش نمی‌کنم
> She went to church because her family expected it, but she didn't really _believe_. --> به کلیسا رفت چون خانواده‌اش چنین انتظاری داشتند، اما به آن باور (اعتقاد) نداشت


Thank you for the examples! They do support the point I'm trying to make. The first five are examples of sentences where the subject always believes something: the report, the story, everything one hears, her words, his being a doctor. Surely this demonstrates that you don't believe _people_, not in Persian; what you do or don't believe, are always things, including statements. The next sentence in the list of your examples, 'goft ke be maa komak mikonad, vali baavarash nemikonam', to me, anyway, sounds like someone is trying to speak or write in a literary style and not succeeding too well; or, that the speaker/writer just chooses to omit the object of the sentence, i.e. the necessary reference to the promise made, thinking this must be correct. Actually, I'm not saying it's incorrect; it's just bad Persian. As for the last example, this is definitely not an instance of the use of the word 'baavar' in the sense we've been debating. This is simply baavar meaning 'conviction'.


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## colognial

Jervoltage said:


> I can see what you mean, but I think that even the word 'believe' as in "I believe you" can be well rendered as باور داشتن. Have a look at these couplets I found in the entry for باور داشتن in Dehkhoda:
> 
> گرگ مردمخوار گشتست این جهان
> بنگر اینک گر نداری باورم
> 
> بی توام شادیی نخواهد بود
> ای شگفتی که داردم باور
> ​



It can, but only in poetry or highly stylized prose. If I were to re-phrase the first lines, I'd most likely come up with something like: In jahaan be mojoodi gooee zendeh badal shodeh ast, mojoodi ke ensaan haa raa mibal-ad / agar harfe maraa baavar nadaari, pas negaah kon taa bebeeni.


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## OmidTavana

Ok, for the first five examples of Webster, we have to use باور کردن for "to believe". No other word can replace it. For the sixth example, the "believe" is actually means "think" or opinion (as in the third meaning of intransitive of believe in Webster) which is better to be translated as گمان کردن
He says he'll help us, but I don't believe him --> گفت به ما کمک می‌کند ولی گمان نمی‌کنم = گفت کمکمون می‌کنه ولی گمون نکنم =گفت کمکون می‌کنه ولی فکر نمی‌کنم
And the last example, even the english sentence is not complete. It should be like:
She went to church because her family expected it, but she didn't really believe (in god/religion/church)
and it can be translated as
به کلیسا رفت چون خانواده‌اش چنین انتظاری داشتند، اما به خدا\مذهب\کلیسا باور (اعتقاد) نداشت


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## colognial

OmidTavana said:


> Ok, for the first five examples of Webster, we have to use باور کردن for "to believe". No other word can replace it. For the sixth example, the "believe" is actually means "think" or opinion (as in the third meaning of intransitive of believe in Webster) which is better to be translated as گمان کردن
> He says he'll help us, but I don't believe him --> گفت به ما کمک می‌کند ولی گمان نمی‌کنم = گفت کمکمون می‌کنه ولی گمون نکنم =گفت کمکون می‌کنه ولی فکر نمی‌کنم
> And the last example, even the english sentence is not complete. It should be like:
> She went to church because her family expected it, but she didn't really believe (in god/religion/church)
> and it can be translated as
> به کلیسا رفت چون خانواده‌اش چنین انتظاری داشتند، اما به خدا\مذهب\کلیسا باور (اعتقاد) نداشت



We're actually in perfect accord here.


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## Jervoltage

OmidTavana said:


> And the last example, even the english sentence is not complete. It should be like:
> She went to church because her family expected it, but she didn't really believe (in god/religion/church)
> and it can be translated as
> به کلیسا رفت چون خانواده‌اش چنین انتظاری داشتند، اما به خدا\مذهب\کلیسا باور (اعتقاد) نداشت



The last example sentence is complete as is. The verb 'believe' in this sense is intransitive. It means "to be a believer, to have religious faith".


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