# Persian: تو و   قطع منآزلها، من و يك  لغزش په



## Shounak

*Hello All,*

Attached herein is a Persian couplet for Ghubar-e-Khatir. I have also provided the meaning.

Can anyone correct me in transliterating the couplet in English so that I can get the pronunciation correctly?

Also, it would helpful if anyone provided me a word to a word meaning.

Thanks


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## PersoLatin

Shounak said:


> Can anyone correct me in transliterating the couplet in English so that I can get the pronunciation correctly?


 "to o qatɛe manâzelhâ - man o yek laqzeŝe pâŷ", although I am sure منازلها is not Persian (it's making an Arabic plural منازل, plural again with Persian ها), a quick check on google translate in Arabic منازلها means 'their homes' so my pronunciation i.e. 'manâzelhâ' is probably not accurate.
تو و قطع منازلها  - من و یک لغزش پایی/ to o qatɛ*e* manâzelhâ - man o yek laqzeŝ*e* pâŷ
you and cutting of X - me and one slip/slippage of foot. (X = منازلها)


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## Shounak

Thank you PersoLatin. Yes Manazil ha is the plural of manzil.....


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## PersoLatin

Shounak said:


> Yes Manazil ha is the plural of manzil.....


I appreciate that but what is ها doing there? It is like adding an 's' to 'children'


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## Shounak

No idea. I attached the original screenshot from the document.


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## fdb

If it is any help: this is the last line of a poem by the notoriously obscure Indo-Persian poet Bedil.

تو و قطع منازلها من و يک لغزش پائى

غزلستان :: بيدل دهلوی :: غزليات - بخش نهم     :: شماره ٣٠٠: عنانم گر نگيرد خاطر آينه سيمائى :: شماره ٣٠٠: عنانم گر نگيرد خاطر آينه سيمائى


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## Alfaaz

Just in case it might of assistance, here is an English translation of the Urdu translation quoted in the opening post:

_You are moving/progressing forward_ منزل در منزل, _while every _قدم _of mine staggers upon every_ گام​
A slightly different interpretation seems to be offered in the following relevant quote from شرح دیوان اردوئے غالب by سیدعلی حیدر نظم طباطبائی (currently available here):


> ... ان دونوں تشبیہوں سے زیادہ اس تشبیہ کا استعمال ہے جس میں یہ غرض ہو کہ مشبہ کی نسبت جو دعویٰ کیا جاتا ہے وہ ممکن ہے مرزا بیدل کا یہ مطلع :
> 
> نہ باصحرا سرے دارم نہ باگلزار سودائے
> بہر جامی روم از خویش می جو شد تماشائے
> 
> اس میں نرا ادعائے شاعرانہ تھا مرزا رفیع سودا نے اس پر مصرع لگائے اور گرہ میں تشبیہ دے کر اس ادعا کو ثابت کردیا :
> 
> نہ بلبل ہوں کہ اس گلشن میں سیر گل مجھے بھائے
> نہ طوطی ہوں کہ دل میرا فضائے باغ لے جائے
> میں ہوں طاؤس آتشبار کیسی ہی بہار آئے
> نہ باصحرا سرے دارم نہ باگلزار سودائے
> بہ ہرجامی روم از خویش می جوشد تماشائے
> 
> بیدل کا مقطع ہے :
> 
> من بیدل حریف سعی بے جا نیستم زاہد
> تو وقطع منازلہا من ویک لغزش پائے
> 
> زاہد سے کہتے ہیں تو منزلیں طے کیا کر مجھے فنا فی اللہ ہونے کے لئے ایک لغزش پا کافی ہے ۔ سودا نے اس ادعا کو ثابت کیا ہے :
> 
> نگاہ دیدہ تحقیق تو در اشک ہم زاہد
> تو وقطع منازلہا من ویک لغزش پائے
> ...
> اُردو کی اصطلاح میں ایسی تشبیہ کو ثبوت دینا کہتے ہیں ۔ ...


Approximate translation:

_... The_ تشبیہ _that is more commonly used in comparison to these two _تشبیہات _is one in which the _غرض _is that the_ دعویٰ _made towards/regarding_ مشبہ is ممکن. _A_ مطلع _of _مرزا بیدل:​​نہ باصحرا سرے دارم نہ باگلزار سودائے​بہر جامی روم از خویش می جو شد تماشائے​​_In this, there was pure _ادعائے شاعرانہ. _Mirza Rafi Sauda_ - مرزا رفیع سودا _attached _مصرع _onto this and_ ثابت _this _ادعا _by giving_ تشبیہ _in _گرہ. ​​نہ بلبل ہوں کہ اس گلشن میں سیر گل مجھے بھائے​نہ طوطی ہوں کہ دل میرا فضائے باغ لے جائے​میں ہوں طاؤس آتشبار کیسی ہی بہار آئے​نہ باصحرا سرے دارم نہ باگلزار سودائے​بہ ہرجامی روم از خویش می جوشد تماشائے​​_There is the_ مقطع _of _بیدل:​​من بیدل حریف سعی بے جا نیستم زاہد​تو وقطع منازلہا من ویک لغزش پائے​​_He says to_ زاہد _that_ a لغزش پا is کافی _for him to become_ فناء في الله_, while the_ زاہد _can continue on traversing/going through _منازل. ​​سودا _has _ثابت _this _ادعا:​​نگاہ دیدہ تحقیق تو در اشک ہم زاہد​تو وقطع منازلہا من ویک لغزش پائے​...​_In the_ اصطلاح _of Urdu, such_ تشبیہ _is referred to as "giving_ ثبوت_". ..._​
منازل can refer to _stages _(in a journey, etc.) in addition to all of the other meanings already discussed.


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## mas pas

Shounak said:


> *Hello All,*
> 
> Attached herein is a Persian couplet for Ghubar-e-Khatir. I have also provided the meaning.
> 
> Can anyone correct me in transliterating the couplet in English so that I can get the pronunciation correctly?
> 
> Also, it would helpful if anyone provided me a word to a word meaning.
> 
> Thanks


Gnostic (mystic) man must pass some stages ( منازلها) to reach to the God, Now the poet says that you are now passing these stages but I am only tempted....so you made progress to God and I stay here


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## Shounak

Can it be written as:

"Oh Lord !  You close every door that I know and my legs tremble to reach you."


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## mas pas

Shounak said:


> Can it be written as:
> 
> "Oh Lord !  You close every door that I know and my legs tremble to reach you."


I think with my poor knowledge of English:
You are passing the steps ( I am not sure about the steps but originally means steps in mysticism)
But my legs tremble (and stay in my place)
I am sure my translation is not good and other people will help you. Only try to show you the correct meaning. most important part for complete understanding the meaning is based on the beginning of couplet:
من بیدل حریف سعی بی جا نیستم زاهد


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## mas pas

Alfaaz said:


> _He says to_ زاہد _that_ a لغزش پا is کافی _for him to become_ فناء في الله_, while the_ زاہد _can continue on traversing/going through _منازل.


This shows the best meaning!


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## Shounak

That means:

A trembling/slipping foot reaches the abode of God while you continue traversing.......


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## Shounak

من بیدل حریف سعی بی جا نیستم زاهد

What is the meaning?


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## mas pas

Shounak said:


> من بیدل حریف سعی بی جا نیستم زاهد
> 
> What is the meaning?



Oh Zahed ( ascetic), I (Bidel) am not the rival ( I will not compete you) for the vain act…..
The vain act refer to Zahed passing منازل ها stages of reaching to god, as Bidel believe that he has reached the final destination already, with only take one step.
Please note that Bidel call his rival Zahed ( ascetic). For زاهد  in Farsi, there are two meanings , one meaning is who challenges to reach the God and the other meaning is who pretend trying  to reach the god and in his heart, he is looking for wealth, power …etc. And his rival is one of them.
So....
Oh Zahed ( ascetic), I (Bidel) am not the rival ( I will not compete you) for the vain act
you are passing the steps ( to reach to god) , But my legs tremble (and stay in my place, As I have already reached him)
this is what I think and others can help you more in translation.


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## utopia62000

Shounak said:


> *Hello All,*
> 
> Attached herein is a Persian couplet for Ghubar-e-Khatir. I have also provided the meaning.
> 
> Can anyone correct me in transliterating the couplet in English so that I can get the pronunciation correctly?
> 
> Also, it would helpful if anyone provided me a word to a word meaning.
> 
> Thanks


Please note that other than the poem having seemingly come from Pakistani sources and not being exactly the type of poems you expect Persian poets to write, there is a delicate point here which is seemingly neglected by our friends in their comments. Here, ها  is referring to قطع not منازل.
That verse can be translated this way: Thou and thy repeated stops in the way, I with just a slip of foot.


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## mas pas

utopia62000 said:


> Please note that other than the poem having seemingly come from Pakistani sources and not being exactly the type of poems you expect Persian poets to write, there is a delicate point here which is seemingly neglected by our friends in their comments. Here, ها  is referring to قطع not منازل.
> That verse can be translated this way: Thou and thy repeated stops in the way, I with just a slip of foot.


Hi, Please study the following page, it is a discussion in detail regarding Arabic plural words in Farsi which again added Farsi plural signs to it,
If you see the title shows منازل ها.....
اسم جمع: جمع مکسر عربی - BBC Academy
In new Farsi grammar, we are not allowed to use Farsi plural sign to any Arabic plural names (جمع مکسر).


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## utopia62000

mas pas said:


> Hi, Please study the following page, it is a discussion in detail regarding Arabic plural words in Farsi which again added Farsi plural signs to it,
> If you see the title shows منازل ها.....
> اسم جمع: جمع مکسر عربی - BBC Academy
> In new Farsi grammar, we are not allowed to use Farsi plural sign to any Arabic plural names (جمع مکسر).


Hi!
You seemingly didn't get my point. Here, the ها is a plural maker for " قطع منازل " not " منازل ". If you speak Farsi, please let me know so that I can explain in Farsi. I think it will be easier.


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## Qureshpor

utopia62000 said:


> Please note that other than the poem having seemingly come from Pakistani sources and not being exactly the type of poems you expect Persian poets to write, there is a delicate point here which is seemingly neglected by our friends in their comments. Here, ها  is referring to قطع not منازل.
> That verse can be translated this way: Thou and thy repeated stops in the way, I with just a slip of foot.


Mawlānā Abul-Ma'ālī Mīrzā Abdul-Qādir Bēdil (1642-1720) was an Indo-Persian poet and lived a long time before Pakistan came into existence (1947). He wrote in a style known as "sabk-i-Hindi" (The Indian Style) used also by Iranian poets, Sa'ib Tabrezi صائب تبریزی  being one of them. Bēdil is quite popular in Afganistan where it seems the Persian (Dari) speakers there don't have much difficulty understanding him.

As for ها plural marker only applying to قطع منازل as a whole, I find this difficult to follow.

Here is an example from Maulana rumi

چو نامت بشنود دل ھا نگنجد در منازل ھا
شود حل جمله مشکل ھا به نور لم یزل بینی

So, one can have plural of a word that is already a plural.


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## Alfaaz

Since Bedil is being discussed in detail, here are links to کلیات ابوالمعانی میرزا عبدالقادر بیدلؔ - فارسی just in case they might be of interest:

جلد اوّل
جلد دوم



			
				Qureshpor said:
			
		

> ... He wrote in a style known as "sabk-i-Hindi" (The Indian Style) used also by Iranian poets, Sa'ib Tabrezi صائب تبریزی being one of them. ...


One potentially illustrative example given by خواجہ عبادالله اخترؔ in بیدل (currently available here):

ہر گہ دو قدم خرام می کاشت 
از انگشتم عصا بکف داشت​The author suggests that اعتراض _against Bedil was that he was_ خارج آہنگ, _meaning he innovated/employed constructions that_ اہلِ زبان _were not familiar with and they called them_ غیر محاورہ_. For example, in the quoted couplet that Bedil wrote upon the demise of his son,_ خرام می کاشت _was new usage and therefore considered_ غیر محاورہ.


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## mas pas

India during the Mughal Empire گورکانی, their official language was Farsi. On the other hand during this period Safavid Dynasty conquers Iran and ruling on it. As political and religious pressure on the people, especially Shia Islam pressure, a lot of artists especially poets escape from Iran and immigrant to India. So these poets making a new style of poem in Persian literature, today we call it سبک هندی Indian Style. The reason for this name was as it has been made in India. One of the emperors was very kind to these artists, was Shah Jahan.
This style (In my opinion) as the poet lived far from the origin ( we are talking about a period of two centuries) they made the poem so complicated, some times it was meaningless. Some Indian ( India, today Pakistan and some parts of Afghanistan ) poets who used Farsi as their literary language also used this style. Some very well known poets are, Bidel Dehlavi بیدل دهلوی, Kashani کاشانی, and Saeb Tabrizi صائب تبریزی .
A very unique sample of this style ( complicated and some times meaningless ) is following couplet, THE POEM STARTING WITH……
!!!!!!!!!مرا با آبله پا چه افتادس.................که تا قدم زده ام پای بر دل افتادس؟؟؟؟؟؟
and continue and reach the following couplet:
!!!!!!!!!!تبسم که به خون بهار تیغ کشید ................  که خنده بر لب گل نیم بسمل افتادست؟؟؟؟؟
This sample is one of Bidel poet which is so complicated ( some times complicate means you need to think more but here I mean it is going to vain it is meaningless). We cannot find the beauty of the Persian poem in these Bidel couplets. later Indian style سبک هندی approach to Dadaism!!!
Of course, there are many poems in this style which are very beautiful as well.
this style was continuing  to new style of بازگشت ادبی literature Returning Style (Neoclassicism), it means returning to previous styles of poem. as this style reach to worthless poems.

I know, my English writing is not fluent, so will be happy if anybody has time and say to me my mistakes!!!! hahaha


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> "to o qatɛe manâzelhâ - man o yek laqzeŝe pâŷ", *although I am sure منازلها is not Persian* (it's making an Arabic plural منازل, plural again with Persian ها),


Emphasis mine. 

From تاریخ زبان فارسی از پرویز ناتل خانلری

گاھی صیغہ ھای جمع مکسّر عربی مانندصیغہء مفرد تلقی می شود و بہ قاعدہء فارسی نشانہء جمع می پذیرد۔

He goes on to provide several examples, one of them being شرایط ھا which is identical in pattern with منازل ھا.


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## eskandar

منازلها also appears in Rumi's Masnavi and in a qasida by Manuchehri.


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## Qureshpor

eskandar said:


> منازلها also appears in Rumi's Masnavi and in a qasida by Manuchehri.


Yes, I have already quoted Rumi in one of my posts. Khanlari's comment has been provided to reinforce the grammatical aspect.


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