# Etymology: Slavic suffix -чи, -чии?



## bragpipes

I've seen this suffix exist in both forms, the shorter -чи and the longer -чий, examples are: шаръчи (color + či = artist), зодчий (zod, ablauted wall/build, = potter, builder, bricklayer, mason, *architect*).

Are these two forms of the same suffix?
If not, is -чи also one that creates adjectives?

Are they always used to create occupational words?   Do they ever create agent nouns?

How common is/was the use of this/(these) suffix(es)?
I don't know of any example in BCS, so I don't know if it lost popularity declined or if it was very regional to begin with.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


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## ahvalj

This is a Turkic loan, cp. the Turkish_ saatçi_ "watchmaker" (Saatchi Gallery). The suffix is attested already in Old Church Slavonic (_кънигъчии, кръмъчии_), where it could have entered from the language of Avars (Pannonian Avars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) or Bulgars (Bulgars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Its popularity on the Balkans was increasing after the Turkish conquest, but in the 19th century many such words were removed from the standard languages. The forms _-чии/-čijь,_ _-чий/-čij _and _-чи/-či_ are three consequent stages of the phonetic evolution (cp. the same in the soft adjectives: OCS/OES _прочии/pročьjь,_ modern Russian _прочий/proʨij, _modern Serbo-Croatian _pročī_). This suffix in Turkic forms agent nouns and in this meaning it was borrowed into Slavic: it only casually looks similar to one of the Slavic adjective formants.


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## bragpipes

Were they ever declined as nouns?  i.e. šarčij > šarčija or is it always šarčega?


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## ahvalj

Only as nouns. The use of the adjective declension for some nouns is the later West/South Slavic invention caused by the disappearance of -_j_ in the Nom. Sg., cp. Russian _Юрий—Юрия_ vs. Polish _Jerzy—Jerzego._


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## ahvalj

I forgot the Russian _зодчего_ etc., but these are words of bookish origin (testified by the preservation of _ий_), apparently influenced by the later Eastern Balkanic evolution of this suffix: the regular outcome of this type in modern Russian is _книгочей, казначей _(Gen. Sg. _книгочея, казначея_).


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## ahvalj

Two amendments.

(1) Some Church Slavonic declension examples from _Словарь старославянского языка · 2006:_

_кръмьчиѭ ѹбишѧ
горе вамъ кънигъчиѩ и фарисѣи
рожьшиꙗ земьнымъ кръмьчию и господа _(probably Old East Slavic, judging from _ж, ꙗ_ and _ю_)
_ръптахѹ фарисеи и книгъчиꙗ_ (probably Old East Slavic, judging from _ѹ_ and _ꙗ_).

What I didn't realize before is that these words decline in OCS like _сѫдии,_ i. e. according to the _ī_-declension (and so the transliteration of the Nom. Sg. ending in the post #2 should be -_iji_).

(2) When checking the list of such words in modern Russian (Приложение:Обратный словарь русского языка-49 — Викисловарь), I found that most of them look derived from the relative adjectives formed from the nouns, e. g. _ловец — ловчий, певец — певчий, кравец — кравчий,_ _дьяк — подьячий, **городник — городничий, постельник — постельничий, сокольник — сокольничий, работа — рабочий,_ so it seems that at least in this language the vast majority of _чий_-nouns are of the Slavic origin and the Turkic suffix just made this _чи_-element somewhat more active. This origin from relative adjectives also explains why they follow the adjectival declension. The Old Church Slavonic words like _кормчий_ and _зодчий _then were adapted to the in-Russian declension pattern, whereas the few true Turkic _чи_-nouns like the abovementioned _казначей<kaznaçi_ preserve the nominal type (though have shifted to the _o_-declension).


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## bibax

In Czech there are some nouns with the suffix *-čí* < *_čьjь_, even newly created. All are derived from verbs and denote occupations (in some sense), They are declined like adjectives (e.g. adj. srnčí < srnec = roe deer).

krejčí = taylor (krájeti = to cut);
(královský) lovčí = (royal) huntmaster (loviti = to hunt);
mluvčí = spokesman, briefer (mluviti = to speak);
náhončí = beater (a person who drives wild game from under cover; honiti = to chase);
závodčí = guards officer (vésti, voditi = to guide, to lead);
(letecký) návodčí = FAC (an individual who directs the action of military aircrafts);
dozorčí (útvaru) = supervisor (of a military unit; dozírati = to supervise, to superintend);
průvodčí = conductor, guard (in trains);
výběrčí (daní) = (tax) collector;


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## ahvalj

bibax said:


> In Czech there are some nouns with the suffix *-čí* < *_čьjь_, even newly created. All are derived from verbs and denote occupations (in some sense), They are declined like adjectives (e.g. adj. srnčí < srnec = roe deer).
> 
> krejčí = taylor (krájeti = to cut);
> (královský) lovčí = (royal) huntmaster (loviti = to hunt);
> mluvčí = spokesman, briefer (mluviti = to speak);
> náhončí = beater (a person who drives wild game from under cover; honiti = to chase);
> závodčí = guards officer (vésti, voditi = to guide, to lead);
> (letecký) návodčí = FAC (an individual who directs the action of military aircrafts);
> dozorčí (útvaru) = supervisor (of a military unit; dozírati = to supervise, to superintend);
> průvodčí = conductor, guard (in trains);


It seems that the source of most of these words is the same as in Russian: _krajec, lovec, dozorec, průvodec, _so most of these _čí_-forms can be interpreted as the standard relative adjectives formed from nouns on _c/k_ — probably influenced by a few true Turkic loans on -_či_ but etymologically unrelated to them. The situation is different in the Eastern Balkans, however.


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## apmoy70

ahvalj said:


> ...Its popularity on the Balkans was increasing after the Turkish conquest, but in the 19th century many such words were removed from the standard languages...


That is not my experience with MoGr as it's one of the few features of the Turkish language that have been happily absorbed into Greek, and it's very productive, so much so that within the last 30 years it started to formulate feminine forms as well:
«Ταξί» [taˈk͡si] (neut.) --> _taxi_ > «ταξι_τζής_» [tak͡siˈʣ͡is] --> _male taxi-driver_, «ταξι_τζού_» [tak͡siˈʣ͡u] --> _female taxi-driver_
«Καφέ» [kaˈfe] (neut.) --> _coffeehouse, coffee shop, cafeteria_ > «καφε_τζής_» [kafeˈʣ͡is] --> _male coffee shop owner_, «καφε_τζού_» [kafeˈʣ͡u] --> _female coffee shop owner_
«Γκάφα» [ˈgafa] (fem.) --> _gaffe, blunder_ > «γκαφα_τζής_» [gafaˈʣ͡is] --> _male blunderer_, «γκαφα_τζού_» [gafaˈʣ͡u] --> _female blunderer_
«Γλυκό» [ɣliˈko] (neut.) --> _sweetmeat, candy, sweet dessert_ > «γλυκα_τζής_» [ɣlikaˈʣ͡is] --> _male person having a sweet tooth_, «γλυκα_τζού_» [ɣlikaˈʣ͡u] --> _female person having a sweet tooth_
...and so on...


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## ahvalj

In Bulgarian, too, this _-či/dži-_ may go back to the proper Turkish loans, e. g. _бояджия, тютюнджия, рушветчия, занаятчия. _Like in Greek, it can be added to the inherited stems — _ловджия_ (cp. the Russian and Czech _ловчий/lovčí,_ which may have been interpreted as the relative adjective of _ловец/lovec_ and thus may have served as one of the starting points of the expansion of _či-_words to the Slavic stems), _гуляйджия, двойкаджия, превратаджия, погромаджия —_ and also to the non-Turkish loanwords like _бетонджия._ It is noteworthy that Old Church Slavonic only knew the -_чи_- variant, with the voiceless, ancient, Turkic consonant, whereas Greek and Bulgarian have acquired this suffix from Turkish, where it is voiced after the vowels, sonorants and voiced consonants.


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## ahvalj

apmoy70 said:


> That is not my experience with MoGr as it's one of the few features of the Turkish language that have been happily absorbed into Greek, and it's very productive, so much so that within the last 30 years it started to formulate feminine forms as well:
> «Ταξί» [taˈk͡si] (neut.) --> _taxi_ > «ταξι_τζής_» [tak͡siˈʣ͡is] --> _male taxi-driver_, «ταξι_τζού_» [tak͡siˈʣ͡u] --> _female taxi-driver_
> «Καφέ» [kaˈfe] (neut.) --> _coffeehouse, coffee shop, cafeteria_ > «καφε_τζής_» [kafeˈʣ͡is] --> _male coffee shop owner_, «καφε_τζού_» [kafeˈʣ͡u] --> _female coffee shop owner_
> «Γκάφα» [ˈgafa] (fem.) --> _gaffe, blunder_ > «γκαφα_τζής_» [gafaˈʣ͡is] --> _male blunderer_, «γκαφα_τζού_» [gafaˈʣ͡u] --> _female blunderer_
> «Γλυκό» [ɣliˈko] (neut.) --> _sweetmeat, candy, sweet dessert_ > «γλυκα_τζής_» [ɣlikaˈʣ͡is] --> _male person having a sweet tooth_, «γλυκα_τζού_» [ɣlikaˈʣ͡u] --> _female person having a sweet tooth_
> ...and so on...


And what is the origin of this feminine -_ού_? The -_ω_ of the likes of _Λητώ and Σαπφώ_?


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## apmoy70

ahvalj said:


> And what is the origin of this feminine -_ού_? The -_ω_ of the likes of _Λητώ and Σαπφώ_?


Yes probably, as it's attested by the fact that in many modern regiolects, the Classical omega has been replaced by -ου-*
Also according to Byzantine surnames in the Greek islands, the (Turkish) productive suffix -ci > MoGr -τζης appears as early as the 11th c. in Patmos (more precisely in 1088 CE) with the family name *«χαλκουτζής»* (coppersmith)

*_Edit_: In Standard MoGr as well. The verbs that ended in «-ῶμαι» in the classical language, end in «-ούμαι» [-ˈume] in MoGr.


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## Perseas

Some feminine nouns of MG with the ending -ου are _αλεπού < αλωπώ < αλώπηξ , γλωσσού, πολυλογού, μαϊμού, παπλωματού_ etc. (fox, babbler, gossip, monkey, she who makes quilts etc.)


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## Scholiast

Greetings
A footnote...


apmoy70 said:


> *_Edit_: In Standard MoGr as well. The verbs that ended in «-ῶμαι» in the classical language, end in «-ούμαι» [-ˈume] in MoGr.


...to a footnote.
Ancient Greek has also this sound-shift: where classical Attic and Ionic dialects have -ου-, Doric frequently has -ω-.
Σ


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## ahvalj

That wasn't the shift _ω>ου_ in Doric: the lengthened or contracted _ο_ produced a closed long _o_ (written _ου_) in Ionic-Attic, but an open long _o_ (written _ω_) in Doric, e. g._ ἵπποο>ἵππου~ἵππω, μισθοῦσι~μισθῶντι. _


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## Scholiast

Greetings again

I stand corrected - thanks ahvalj - and will therefore shut up . С Новым Годом - when it comes .

Σ


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## ahvalj

Þancas and ᵹesæliᵹ nīw ᵹēar.


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