# BCS: đubrad [and the -ad suffix for collective nouns]



## Tassos

I always think that songs help someone comprehend a lot of aspects in a language, especially beginners.
In the case of BCS, it happens so that I actually like very much the ex-yu rock scene.
One of the most prominent artists of this scene is of course Riblja Čorba. Now as I translate their songs
I notice the frequent use by Bora Đorđević of what I perceive as slang words or colloquialisms (by the mere fact
that I cannot find suitable translations for these words in any of the translators or dictionaries available in the web).
There is one particular song that is abundant with such words and that is "Oko Mene". I mean, a big chunk of the song
remains un-translated wherever I put it. So I thought to ask you what all these words mean...

To keep with the forum's rules, I will not cite the lyrics directly, just the words.
*
đubrad *(no idea, sounds turkish, though)


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## DenisBiH

_đubrad _= scum, trash (used for people)


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## Tassos

Thanks to everyone for the replies and explanations.
As you probably already guessed, it was one initial message containing ALL the words but the rules are rules 
and I missed a couple of them (again).
I have to say that shortly after opening the thread, I found đubre (no way I was going to guess that -ad is a
plural suffix)

MOD EDIT: This post and the subsequent reply were initially posted in the wrong thread.


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> I have to say that shortly after opening the thread, I found đubre (no way I was going to guess that -ad is a
> plural suffix)



It isn't actually, it's a suffix for forming collective nouns.

Compare:

singular: _zvijer_ "beast"
plural: _zvijeri _"beasts"
collective noun: _zvjerad_


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## VelikiMag

Some words ending with _-e_, only form plural forms with _-ad_, e.g. _burad, đulad, tanad, telad, prasad, _etc. While formally it may be called a collective noun, for those words it is the only plural they have. Word _zvjerad_ I haven't heard before.


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## DenisBiH

VelikiMag said:


> Some words ending with _-e_, only form plural forms with _-ad_, e.g. _burad, đulad, tanad, telad, prasad, _etc. While formally it may be called a collective noun, for those words it is the only plural they have. Word _zvjerad_ I haven't heard before.



Have they taken over all the functions of plural, though?

1 prase, 2 praseta, 3 praseta, 4 praseta, 5 prasadi, 6 prasadi
1 tele, 2 teleta, 3 teleta, 4 teleta, 5 teladi, 6 teladi

The 5/6 prasadi/teladi sounds a bit odd to my ears. What do you think?


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## VelikiMag

DenisBiH said:


> Have they taken over all the functions of plural, though?
> 
> 1 prase, 2 praseta, 3 praseta, 4 praseta, 5 prasadi, 6 prasadi
> 1 tele, 2 teleta, 3 teleta, 4 teleta, 5 teladi, 6 teladi



Well, for numbers 5 and more, we have a genitive plural, right? It seems correct.



			
				DenisBiH said:
			
		

> The 5/6 prasadi/teladi sounds a bit odd to my ears. What do you think?


Perhaps I would say _petoro/šestoro_ _prasadi/teladi_. But even _pet/šest_ doesn't sound that bad.


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## DenisBiH

VelikiMag said:


> Perhaps I would say _petoro/šestoro_ _prasadi/teladi_. But even _pet/šest_ doesn't sound that bad.



Me too. But 5/6 đubradi is markedly stranger, isn't it?


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## VelikiMag

DenisBiH said:


> Me too. But 5/6 đubradi is markedly stranger, isn't it?


Apparently _đubrad_ is used only when referring to people. Cause if we have a lot of garbage, it will still be just _đubre_. And if we insist to count those people, it will be _četiri đubreta, pet đubradi, šest đubradi..._ What makes it strange is maybe the fact that we don't hear it often? But I don't see how we could say it differently.


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## VelikiMag

I found few more words: _kučad, mačad, pačad, lanad, ždrebad... _Have you ever used some of these? I haven't.


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## Tassos

I refered to the -ad suffix as plural because of this : http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/đubre 
and because in my BCS grammar book there is no mention of such suffix as plural or "collective".
In fact in the book there are your "classic" collective nouns (cv(ij)eće, drvlje, kamenje, lišće etc. for 
which it's specified that they have no plural) and nothing else. And of course no mention of that particular
suffix as an irregular plural suffix of "normal" nouns. But inasmuch as there more than a few words 
using that suffix maybe its time to include it. 
I just hope there aren't any more "surprises" of that kind for me in the future!


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## VelikiMag

Tassos said:


> I refered to the -ad suffix as plural because of this : http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/đubre
> and because in my BCS grammar book there is no mention of such suffix as plural or "collective".


It is a plural, but only when the meaning is number 4 (very bad and immoral person). For other meanings it is an uncountable noun.


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## Santanawinds

VelikiMag said:


> I found few more words: _kučad, mačad, pačad, lanad, ždrebad... _Have you ever used some of these? I haven't.



in all the dozen+ years that I have been living in Croatia, I haven't heard that yet! 
I suppose Lišće, cvijeće are similar forms (but without the AD ending).


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## DenisBiH

VelikiMag said:


> I found few more words: _kučad, mačad, pačad, lanad, ždrebad... _Have you ever used some of these? I haven't.



These not, although some would sound more normal than others. To me _ždrebad,_ _kučad _and _lanad _are not very familiar but ok, and some, like _mačad _and _pačad_, would sound strange (I would use _mačići_). That might be a subjective judgement, though.

 But I do use _paščad _and _štenad_, for example. Perhaps someone who lives in a more rural area would also regularly use _pačad_, _lanad _etc.


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## yael*

VelikiMag said:


> I found few more words: _kučad, mačad, pačad, lanad, ždrebad... _Have you ever used some of these? I haven't.


Me neither. But I use  _siročad _and_ kopilad_, for instance.


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## Duya

It is worth mentioning that for most of these nouns, another type of supletive plural is commonly used. Namely, since they denote small beings, they are put in plural as true deminutives: _kučići, pilići, siročići._. However, there is no such thing as *_kučić or pilić_. And it doesn't work for e.g. *_kopilići or đubrići_.


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## VelikiMag

Duya said:


> It is worth mentioning that for most of these nouns, another type of supletive plural is commonly used. Namely, since they denote small beings, they are put in plural as true deminutives: _kučići, pilići, siročići._. However, there is no such thing as *_kučić or pilić_. And it doesn't work for e.g. *_kopilići or đubrići_.


According to HJP, there are words like _mačić, pilić, pačić, prasić, _and even _siročić_. While their plural forms are much more familiar, I guess these singular forms are derived by analogy of diminutives. To me these words don't sound incorrect, they just aren't widely used as such.


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