# Vuelvo por/para Navidad



## davoosh

Hello,

I was wondering if there was any nuance in meaning between por/para in this sentence:

"Vuelvo por/para Navidad"

Both seem to be acceptable, but I can't quite grasp a difference in nuance.

Thanks.


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## Rubns

Both are acceptable as you supected.

- Vuelvo *por* Navidad: vuelvo debido a que es Navidad, por el hecho de ser Navidad. (this is the one I'd choose as a native speaker).
- Vuelvo *para* Navidad: vuelvo para celebrar la Navidad (hence "para").

Another option:

- Vuelvo *en* Navidad.


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## inib

Rubns said:


> Both are acceptable as you supected.
> 
> - Vuelvo *por* Navidad: vuelvo debido a que es Navidad, por el hecho de ser Navidad. (this is the one I'd choose as a native speaker).
> - Vuelvo *para* Navidad: vuelvo para celebrar la Navidad (hence "para").
> 
> Another option:
> 
> - Vuelvo *en* Navidad.


So, basically, with "por" it's _I'm coming back/home *because* it's Christmas_ and with "para" it's _I'm coming back/home *in order to celebrate* Christmas_. When I say in English _I'm coming home *for* Christmas_, I generally mean the latter (I'd be interested to hear if other speakers say it with this intention), and yet "por" seems to be more common than "para" here in Spanish. Is it just because a well-known "turrón" advert popularised the "por", or has it always been that way?


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## duvija

For me, ' por Navidad' may mean ' around Christmas' - not necessarily on the same day.
Para Navidad: I come because of Christmas.


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## Rubns

Reading duvija's post I realized the same thing: "por Navidad" may be "around Christmas". Actually I think it's quite ambiguous.


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## Cambria

I agree. Apart from Rubns explanation, which is correct, there's also this ambiguity with the use of "por": it doesn't really specify exactly _when_ will that happen (the coming back, I mean), it could refer, for example, to someone who is going to spend the whole Christmas Holidays there, or maybe just the 25th of December.
By using "para" you're _usually_ implying that you're arriving the 25th, not before.


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## inib

Yes, Rubns, I'd also realised that "por Navidad" could mean "around Christmas/over the Christmas period", (and, Cambria, you're right, "para" could mean "in time for Christmas") but I don't think that's the way I've heard it used most. (I think) that I keep hearing "Vuelvo por Navidad" in the same sense as I say "I'm coming home for Christmas", and after 30 years of hearing it, and accepting it, Davoosh's question  made me  wonder again why I don't hear "para". (Maybe it's just my philosophy about Christmas - that I'd go home because I wanted to participate in Christmas celebrations, not because those dates obliged me to do so...? )


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## Nipnip

I agree with Duvija's on both accounts, "por" means "around Christmas", to get the other meaning one needs to be predisposed to accept that the person shouldn't be returning, and is only doing it because of Christmas, like coming home because of a funeral or a celebration. That is, the person wouldn't be coming if it weren't for Christmas, which of course is possible, but to jump to that assumption we would first need to have some context to lead us there, without any (context) the meaning is "around".


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## JennyTW

inib said:


> So, basically, with "por" it's _I'm coming back/home *because* it's Christmas_ and with "para" it's _I'm coming back/home *in order to celebrate* Christmas_. When I say in English _I'm coming home *for* Christmas_, I generally mean the latter (I'd be interested to hear if other speakers say it with this intention), and yet "por" seems to be more common than "para" here in Spanish. Is it just because a well-known "turrón" advert popularised the "por", or has it always been that way?



Unfortunately, no natives have answered Inib's question which I think could be key here. I imagine that when writing the "Vuelvo a casa" song, "por" was chosen because it scans much better than "para". And all that could have influenced the way people use/understand the terms nowadays.


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## duvija

The problem is that ' por/para ' have a big area of overlap. That's the reason it's so hard to teach it to foreigners (it goes in the bag with ' subjuntivo/ imperfecto-pretérito/ the verb ' gustar' / and other similar jewels...


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## levmac

inib said:


> When I say in English _I'm coming home *for* Christmas_, I generally mean the latter (I'd be interested to hear if other speakers say it with this intention),



It's an interesting one to think about. I always say "por navidad" because I think of "I'm going home for Christmas" as being the reason.


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## duvija

levmac said:


> It's an interesting one to think about. I always say "por navidad" because I think of "I'm going home for Christmas" as being the reason.



"for" and " por" are not really translation of one another. Sorry ...


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## cbrena

JennyTW said:


> Unfortunately, no natives have answered Inib's question which I think could be key here. I imagine that when writing the "Vuelvo a casa" song, "por" was chosen because it scans much better than "para". And all that could have influenced the way people use/understand the terms nowadays.


Creo que los nativos de cierta edad somos incapaces de separar ese "por" de ese "para" en esta frase, precisamente por la canción de ese anuncio navideño.


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## inib

cbrena said:


> Creo que los nativos de cierta edad somos incapaces de separar ese "por" de ese "para" en esta frase, precisamente por la canción de ese anuncio navideño.


Wow! If you're right, publicity has something to answer for. It also makes us say "I'm liking it" in spite of our constant efforts to teach  that stative verbs are generally not used in continuous tenses!


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## Cambria

cbrena said:


> Creo que los nativos de cierta edad somos incapaces de separar ese "por" de ese "para" en esta frase, precisamente por la canción de ese anuncio navideño.




Sería interesante saber cómo usan el por/para en esta frase los hispanohablantes de países en los que jamás se haya emitido ese anuncio, ¿no?


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## gringuitoloco

Rubns said:


> Both are acceptable as you supected.
> 
> - Vuelvo *por* Navidad: vuelvo debido a que es Navidad, por el hecho de ser Navidad. (this is the one I'd choose as a native speaker).
> - Vuelvo *para* Navidad: vuelvo para celebrar la Navidad (hence "para").
> 
> Another option:
> 
> - Vuelvo *en* Navidad.


I think this is the best way to determine which one should be used. 
Think about a question that would be asked beforehand: 
¿Por qué vuelves a casa? Vuelvo por (el hecho de ser) Navidad.
¿Para qué vuelves a casa? Vuelvo para (celebrar) Navidad.

Am I wrong in thinking about it that way?


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## duvija

inib said:


> Wow! If you're right, publicity has something to answer for. It also makes us say "I'm liking it" in spite of our constant efforts to teach that stative verbs are generally not used in continuous tenses!



Don't you mean 'I'm loving it'? (or we have different McDonald's?)


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## inib

gringuitoloco said:


> Am I wrong in thinking about it that way?


No, personally, I don't think you're wrong at all. Maybe I upset all this thread because when *I* say "I'm coming home for Christmas" *I* mean "Vuelvo* para *Navidad", but *others* may not want to express the same thing. (Aren't we going around in circles now?)


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## inib

duvija said:


> Don't you mean 'I'm loving it'? (or we have different McDonald's?)


You're right, Duvija. "I'm loving it" is the McDonalds' slogan, and that's what I was mistakenly getting at.  But I think I may have heard "I'm likin' it" in some song or another more recently.


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## gringuitoloco

inib said:


> No, personally, I don't think you're wrong at all. Maybe I upset all this thread because when *I* say "I'm coming home for Christmas" *I* mean "Vuelvo* para *Navidad", but *others* may not want to express the same thing. (Aren't we going around in circles now?)


I'd say "para", because I would come home to celebrate Christmas. If I weren't celebrating, but just coming for the duration of Christmas, or Christmas time, I'd say "por". However, that's hardly the case for me. In other words, even if I did come home for the duration of Christmas or Christmas break, I'd still emphasize the celebration of Christmas over the duration.


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## inib

gringuitoloco said:


> I'd say "para", because I would come home to celebrate Christmas. If I weren't celebrating, but just coming for the duration of Christmas, or Christmas time, I'd say "por". However, that's hardly the case for me. In other words, even if I did come home for the duration of Christmas or Christmas break, I'd still emphasize the celebration of Christmas over the duration.


Thanks. That makes two of us then.


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## levmac

duvija said:


> "for" and " por" are not really translation of one another. Sorry ...



 You should speak to _all_ English speakers about this, because just about _every_ textbook I have ever used has exercises distinguishing the two. Why? Because "for" translates as both in about a _million_ contexts. 

Here are some examples where "for" can translate as "por".

Two jumpers for €40.
I did this for your own good.
I had to do it for personal reasons. 
I am sorry for everything I said.
I am grateful for your help.
Thank you for everything.
I went home for Christmas.


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## Rondivu

"Volver (a casa) por/para Navidad" no son nada comunes en el habla diario, por lo menos en mi círculo de amistades. Sin ir más lejos, hoy mismo me preguntaron si fulanito va a venir en Navidad.
"Volver por Navidad" se lo dejamos al anuncio de la tele, como ya han mencionado anteriormente, y "volver para Navidad" me suena raro.
Realmente, "volver" lo utilizaría para casos muy concretos ( ir o venir, según sea el caso, son los verbos que emplearía).

Si me voy de viaje y me preguntan "¿Cuándo vuelves?", contestaría "(vuelvo) en Navidad".
Normalmente, decimos "ir o venir a un lugar en Navidad"

1-¿Vas a ir a tu tierra en Navidad o te quedas en Sevilla?
2- Hijo, espero que puedas venir este año en Navidad.



Un saludo cordial para todos .


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## JennyTW

También a la pregunta "¿Cuándo vuelves?" se puede contestar; "Vuelvo para la semana que viene" y entonces también "Vuelvo para Navidad" con la misma idea de que estaré aquí para esa fecha. 

De todas formas, creo que el anuncio tiene gran parte de (sino toda) la culpa de la confusión. 

Cbrena dijo (piste #13) que para gente de cierta edad la frase del anuncio había hecho que ya no sabían distinguir aquí entre "por" y "para", pero como el anuncio empezó en las años ochenta y se ha emitido todos los años desde entonces, creo que afecta a casi toda la población, salvo quizás alguna gente mayor o gente que no ve la tele.


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## Rondivu

Hola, JennyTW:
Es cierto que también se puede decir "vuelvo para Navidad", al igual que "vuelvo por Navidad", no dije que fueran incorrectos. Yo uso siempre "en" con "volver".
Para mí no existe ninguna confusión entre "volver para Navidad y "volver por Navidad", ya que ambas indican que esa persona estará aquí para esa fecha. Sencillamente, no se suelen utilizar en el habla cotidiano cuando se acercan estas fechas. Si me apuras, te diré que podrías oír "volver (a casa) por Navidad" , pero a gente que imita medio en broma, medio en serio al dichoso anuncio.
Un saludo


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## JennyTW

Rondivu said:


> Hola, JennyTW:
> Es cierto que también se puede decir "vuelvo para Navidad", al igual que "vuelvo por Navidad", no dije que fueran incorrectos. Yo uso siempre "en" con "volver".
> o



Creo que no he mencionado nada de que tú dijeras eso. 

Pero supongo que que no siempre usas "en" con "volver" ¿no? Por ejemplo "Vuelvo siempre para el cumpleaños de mi madre" ¿lo dirías tú?


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## Rondivu

JennyTW said:


> Creo que no he mencionado nada de que tú dijeras eso.
> 
> Pero supongo que que no siempre usas "en" con "volver" ¿no? Por ejemplo "Vuelvo siempre para el cumpleaños de mi madre" ¿lo dirías tú?



Me refería a que uso siempre "en" con "volver" cuando incluyo "Navidad". 
En el ejemplo que pones, sí lo diría así, pero no con "Navidad".
De verdad, no sé por qué tanto lío con "volver por/para Navidad", si no lo usamos.
Nadie en España en el habla cotidiano dice:

Vuelvo a casa por/para Navidad. 

Decimos:
Voy a ir a casa en Navidad. Voy a ir a mi tierra en Navidad, etc.


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## Rubns

Es cierto, no se usa apenas (al menos en donde yo vivo). Yo siempre digo "vuelvo a casa en Navidad". That's why I added the option "en" in my original post, that's the way I usually say it.

Otra forma en la que lo digo: "vuelvo a casa en Navidades".


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## blasita

Hello. 





davoosh said:


> I was wondering if there was any nuance in meaning between por/para in this sentence:
> 
> "Vuelvo por/para Navidad"
> 
> Both seem to be acceptable, but I can't quite grasp a difference in nuance.


 To me it just depends on context.

_Vuelvo/voy/vengo,_ etc. _por/para/en_ _Navidad_ are all fine and I could use all of them. _Por_ = porque es Navidad, por esas fechas. _Para_ = por esas fechas, finalidad (_para celebrar_). _En _= en esa/s fecha/s.

Saludos.


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## Fmorondo

I only can found a main difference between "por" and "para" in this context, and it is if the  question is "when are you coming home". "Por Navidad" means "around Christmas", i.e., I'll be at home some day between Christmas Eve and Epiphany; if the answer is "para Navidad", I'd understand that my friend will be at home precisely on Christmas Day (even if he has arrived earlier).


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## blasita

Fmorondo said:


> [...] if the answer is "para Navidad", I'd understand that my friend will be at home precisely on Christmas Day (even if he has arrived earlier).


 Yes, in that particular context, _para Navidad_ would usually mean what you say. But, in general, this is not true to me. _Por Navidad = para Navidad_ = around Christmas (depending on context). _Navidad_ can also be _Christmas Day_, of course.  Saludos.


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## Cambria

Rondivu said:


> Nadie en España en el habla cotidiano dice:
> 
> Vuelvo a casa por/para Navidad.




Hombre, decir "nadie" creo que es demasiado tajante. Si en el anuncio lo usaron es porque "alguien" debía decirlo así, tanto cuando crearon el anuncio como hoy en día. Ni "por" ni "para" suenan mal en ese contexto, por lo tanto quiere decir que se puede usar, que alguien lo usa. Si no lo hiciera _nadie_, nos sonaría fatal.
Además, al comentar esto estamos intentando averiguar la posible diferencia de significado entre usar una u otra opción, cosa que siempre puede ser interesante.


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## Rondivu

Cambria said:


> Hombre, decir "nadie" creo que es demasiado tajante. Si en el anuncio lo usaron es porque "alguien" debía decirlo así, tanto cuando crearon el anuncio como hoy en día. Ni "por" ni "para" suenan mal en ese contexto, por lo tanto quiere decir que se puede usar, que alguien lo usa. Si no lo hiciera _nadie_, nos sonaría fatal.
> Además, al comentar esto estamos intentando averiguar la posible diferencia de significado entre usar una u otra opción, cosa que siempre puede ser interesante.



Indirectamente, con tu comentario, me estás dando la razón. De acuerdo que decir "nadie lo usa" es exagerado pero ese "alguien lo usa" que mencionas, abarca a una gran minoría que podría incluir a la chica que canta la canción y al gracioso de turno que te dice "vuelvo a casa por Navidad", y al que se le suele contestar con sarcasmo "sí, como el turrón".
En cuanto a la diferencia con "por" y "para", para mí no la hay. Cualquiera de las dos preposiciones indican que estarás de vuelta por esas fechas, pero no más tarde del 25 de diciembre.


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## Cambria

Rondivu said:


> Indirectamente, con tu comentario, me estás dando la razón.



No estoy de acuerdo, pero da igual. La cuestión es el uso de por/para. Tu opinión es que no hay diferencia entre ambos, muy bien, pero otras personas en este hilo han comentado que sí ven una pequeña diferencia de significado, por eso es interesante debatirlo.


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