# by the proverbials



## marianamaz

Hi,

Does someone know the exact translation for the phrase "by the proverbials"?  

The complete sentence I have to translate to Spanish is: 

*Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, it has the city firmly by the proverbials.*
 
 Many Thanks!!!

Mariana


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## Moritzchen

By the proverbial nuts (or balls). 
I don't think you can translate it as "los proverbiales".


PS: Tal vez puedas, si te fijas en esta definición del DRAE
*3. *adj. Muy notorio, conocido de siempre, consabido de todos.


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## duvija

Creo que le falta algo al final. Supongo que habla del subte de Londres.

...  que tiene a la ciudad agarrada por las proverbiales ... (yo acá diría 'bolas', pero esto es un foro serio). 'Solapas', ¿tal vez?


Saludos


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## k-in-sc

No, the short hairs. Close


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## Moritzchen

k-in-sc said:


> No, the short hairs. Close


You mean this?
*short hairs:*
A euphemism for "pubic hairs," itself in this context a euphemistic metonymy for "balls". It is used mostly in expressions such as "to have someone by the short hairs," which is to say "to have someone in a very difficult or hopeless situation," equivalent to "to have someone by the balls."
(Urban Dictionary)

Well, it's a metonymy  for balls now, isn't it?


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## k-in-sc

Yeah, the short and curlies.


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## aztlaniano

Welcome, marianamaz! 
Tiene la ciudad bien cogida/agarrada/pillada por las partes nobles (u otro eufemismo).


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## duvija

aztlaniano said:


> Welcome, marianamaz!
> Tiene la ciudad bien cogida/agarrada/pillada por las partes nobles (u otro eufemismo).


 

En este caso particular, y a pesar del regocijo de muchos de nosotros, ¿podrían no usar 'cogida'? Cualquier otro verbo vale.

Saludos


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## aztlaniano

duvija said:


> En este caso particular, y a pesar del regocijo de muchos de nosotros, ¿podrían no usar 'cogida'? Cualquier otro verbo vale.


 
Je, je, je. Lo hubiera dejado en "cogida", que es lo que más se usa en España, pero, como marianamaz no indica de qué país es, se me ocurrió añadir otras opciones, por si resulta ser americana.


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## k-in-sc

I noticed that, but I thought it must be that I still hadn't gotten my mind out of the gutter. I'm glad to see it's not just me


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> I noticed that, but I thought it must be that I still hadn't gotten my mind out of the gutter. I'm glad to see it's not just me


 
Your mind is just fine. The problem is that 'una ciudad cogida por las bolas'  is physically impossible, and it's too much, even for me.


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## k-in-sc

They do things differently over in _la madre patria_ 
How would you translate ''over a barrel''? It means the same as "by the proverbials.''
All the house dictionary gives is "entre la espada y la pared,'' which doesn't seem exactly the same to me. They both mean "helpless," but there's not necessarily any physical control involved in "entre la espada y la pared" -- it's more like ''cornered.''


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## gengo

The perfect Spanish translation here will be a euphemism of a vulgar expression, since that is what the English is.  The original could be rewritten in a less colloquial way as follows.

_Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, the organization in charge of it can dictate its own terms to the city._


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## duvija

gengo said:


> The perfect Spanish translation here will be a euphemism of a vulgar expression, since that is what the English is. The original could be rewritten in a less colloquial way as follows.
> 
> _Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, the organization in charge of it can dictate its own terms to the city._


 
Esto es lo que yo llamo 'elegancia'. Linda frase. 

Saludos.


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## Moritzchen

... if we could only change the original text...


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## mijoch

Hi.

The use of "the proverbials" is (as said above) well understood to refer to the testicles, but formally acceptable.

Perhaps----"agarrada por las partes más sensibles" would match in meaning and semantic index.

M.


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## SydLexia

Leaving aside proverbial matters, is the original referring to the Tube, to Transport for London (the operators), or to the train drivers', guards' or maintenance workers' unions as having London's crown jewels in a vise?

syd


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## gengo

SydLexia said:


> Leaving aside proverbial matters, is the original referring to the Tube, to Transport for London (the operators), or to the train drivers', guards' or maintenance workers' unions as having London's crown jewels in a vise?



You are obviously more familiar with it than I, but I would guess that it refers to the tolls charged for crossing the channel.  It seems to be saying that the operators can pretty much charge whatever they want because the Tube is so essential to the business life of London.  It's not like truck (er, lorry) drivers have any other options if they want to deliver between London and France.


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## SydLexia

gengo said:


> You are obviously more familiar with it than I, but I would guess that it refers to the tolls charged for crossing the channel.  It seems to be saying that the operators can pretty much charge whatever they want because the Tube is so essential to the business life of London.  It's not like truck (er, lorry) drivers have any other options if they want to deliver between London and France.


The 'Tube' is actually the London Underground system so it doesn't have much to do with lorry, er truck, drivers except when they go off shift in the capital. 

The 'Channel Tunnel' goes under what we presume to call the 'English Channel' (and there is plenty of competition from ferry operators).

syd


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## gengo

SydLexia said:


> The 'Tube' is actually the London Underground system so it doesn't have much to do with lorry, er truck, drivers except when they go off shift in the capital.
> 
> The 'Channel Tunnel' goes under what we presume to call the 'English Channel' (and there is plenty of competition from ferry operators).



Doh!  That was a major brain freeze.  Thanks for the thaw.  (Actually, my mistake is forgivable, because in AE a tunnel is through land, and a tube is under water.  An island city where I live is connected by three bridges and a tube to the mainland.  So that is why the word Tube automatically brought to mind the Chunnel.)

But my basic idea still holds true, I think.  The Tube is essential to the life of London, so its operators have tremendous leverage over the city.  Right?


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## k-in-sc

SydLexia said:


> Leaving aside proverbial matters, is the original referring to the Tube, to Transport for London (the operators), or to the train drivers', guards' or maintenance workers' unions as having London's crown jewels in a vise?


Are the crown jewels of a city like the family jewels of a person? Or is that only true for London, because of the queen?


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## SydLexia

gengo said:


> <snip>..
> But my basic idea still holds true, I think.  The Tube is essential to the life of London, so its operators have tremendous leverage over the city.  Right?


The Tube is controlled by "Transport for London" which is controlled by the mayor (currently Boris Johnson, aka "BoJo'). Although yours is a valid point, it sounds strange to me that the Tube as an organisation should be seen as 'holding London to ransom', I was suggesting that 'it' _in this context_ might refer back to a previous sentence that mentions some group or the other who work on the Tube and who are essential to its running. It would be much more common to say, for example, that the train drivers' union (the RMT = National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers) have the Tube (and London) by the short and curlies.

This Google search might give you an idea of what I mean (note also the topicality of some dates).

syd


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## k-in-sc

"The Tube has a reputation for being strike-prone. And why not? The RMT  is in the enviable position of a monopoly supplier of labour to the  system. Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, it has the city firmly by the proverbials. Like any monopoly in a powerful position, it's managed to raise prices - ie wages for drivers - quite successfully. ...''
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:T5Xi7r5_sHEJ:www.economist.com/blogs/blighty+%22Because+the+Tube+is+so+vital+for+the+capital%27s+economy,+it+has+the+city+firmly+by+the+proverbials.%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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## gengo

k-in-sc said:


> "The Tube has a reputation for being strike-prone. And why not? The RMT  is in the enviable position of a monopoly supplier of labour to the  system. Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, it has the city firmly by the proverbials. Like any monopoly in a powerful position, it's managed to raise prices - ie wages for drivers - quite successfully. ...''
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...by+the+proverbials."&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us



Yes, that is exactly the type of situation I was imagining.


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## Moritzchen

All that's wonderful children, so many fond memories of the tube and the Earl's Court station... ah those days of... and ... well, I still have the ashtray with the Underground map, but the question here is



marianamaz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does someone know the exact translation for the phrase "by the proverbials"?
> 
> The complete sentence I have to translate to Spanish is:
> 
> *Because the Tube is so vital for the capital's economy, it has the city firmly by the proverbials.*
> 
> Many Thanks!!!
> 
> Mariana


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## duvija

Moritzchen said:


> All that's wonderful children, so many fond memories of the tube and the Earl's Court station... ah those days of... and ... well, I still have the ashtray with the Underground map, but the question here is


 

And why don't you give it a try first? (I'm asking Moritzchen...)


Saludos.


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## gengo

Moritzchen said:


> ... well, I still have the ashtray with the Underground map, but the question here is



I liked the suggestions given in posts 9 and 16.  They were made by non-native speakers of Spanish, but they sound good to me.  If you have an alternative...


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## Moritzchen

duvija said:


> And why don't you give it a try first? (I'm asking Moritzchen...)
> 
> 
> Saludos.





gengo said:


> I liked the suggestions given in posts 9 and 16. They were made by non-native speakers of Spanish, but they sound good to me. If you have an alternative...


 Oh! You mean like I did in post #*2*?


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## SydLexia

Always provided that it is clear in the context that it is the Tube system and the city that are/can be held to ransom by the trade union.

syd


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## gengo

Moritzchen said:


> Oh! You mean like I did in post #*2*?



I interpret that post to mean that you suggested using "los proverbiales," and no, I don't care for that translation.  No offense, it's just my opinion.

There may be a very natural expression for this in Spanish (I bet there is).  Let's see if anybody else has a suggestion.


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## Lurrezko

Quizá *tiene a la ciudad cogida/pillada por donde más le duele*. Es algo más incisivo que _por las partes nobles_ pero sin llegar a ser vulgar...


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## Moritzchen

No offense taken gengo. We all have a thick hide here. I was just pointing out I wasn't asking others for something I hadn't done as I understood you and the other lady were telling me. 
Anyway, there is a word "consabidas" that may work, and not as "usual" which is how the house dictionay translates it, but as "known", or "characteristic". (,,, por las ya consabidas).


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## gengo

Lurrezko oinak said:


> Quizá *tiene a la ciudad cogida/pillada por donde más le duele*. Es algo más incisivo que _por las partes nobles_ pero sin llegar a ser vulgar...



Ooh, I like that, although in this half of the world I think agarrada would be better than cogida.

Well, the original poster has some good options now.


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## Lurrezko

gengo said:


> Ooh, I like that, although in this half of the world I think agarrada would be better than cogida.
> 
> Well, the original poster has some good options now.



*Agarrada* suena perfecto, y así complacemos a Duvija y a Moritzchen...


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## Moritzchen

Lurrezko oinak said:


> *Agarrada* suena perfecto, y así complacemos a Duvija y a Moritzchen...


Y yo que tenía tantas esperanzas...


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## JorgeHoracio

con las consabidas ... emasculation y demás ... veo que hoy es un día muy cojonudo ...!


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## marianamaz

Gracias a todos por las respuestas!

En caso de que a alguien le interese, era para un texto formal por lo cual no quería poner "las partes íntimas", etc. etc. con lo cual *by the proverbials* lo traduje por "tiene a la ciudad _a su merced"._


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## k-in-sc

Thanks, that's good to know! (I guess you weren't trying to preserve the tone of the original.)


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## gengo

marianamaz said:


> En caso de que a alguien le interese, era para un texto formal por lo cual no quería poner "las partes íntimas", etc. etc. con lo cual *by the proverbials* lo traduje por "tiene a la ciudad _a su merced"._



That is not a faithful translation, since it loses the spirit of the original.  Your Spanish would back-translate as "has the city at its mercy," which is a common phrase in English, and the writer could have easily used that phrase if desired, but instead chose to use a more humorous and earthy phrase.  You say that the text is formal, but I can assure you that the tone of the original is not formal, so the Spanish should be the same.

But, of course, it's your decision.


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## marianamaz

Thanks Gengo for you comment, but it doesn´t add much, as you haven`t read the whole text (and the whole translation). 
My translation was for an exam at Univesity (not for a client) and when I was evaluated I was told that _"a su merced"_ was a very good translation for that phrase.


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## gengo

And I disagree with that evaluation, as I would consider it a poor translation.  I don't need to read the whole text to know that.  But as long as everybody is happy...


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## k-in-sc

I agree with gengo that ''a su merced'' is accurate in meaning but not in tone. Maybe they were just surprised you even knew what "by the proverbials" meant ... (thanks to us )


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## scaglia

2 years after this post and I'm with the same doubt. It seems you had to translate the same article I'm doing right now (and at the same month of the year). Thanks for making it pretty clear!!!


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## scaglia

My translation: Debido a que el Tubo es tan importante para la economía de la capital, manejan la ciudad a su antojo.


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## k-in-sc

scaglia said:


> 2 years after this post and I'm with the same doubt *having the same question*. It seems you had to translate the same article I'm doing right now (and at *in* the same month of the year). Thanks for making it pretty *(= fairly, did you mean "so"?)* clear!!!


"A su antojo" is more like "as they please," although I guess it would work here, sort of.


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## Amapolas

The euphemism I and other people use when we don't want to refer to spheres is _agarrado de las orejas_ though it may sound rather naïve. 
Scaglia, did you really translate it as Tubo instead of _subte_? I'm intrigued. Would the prospective reader understand it?


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## k-in-sc

That's what it's called ...


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## Amapolas

k-in-sc said:


> That's what it's called ...



In Spanish? It's a first for me. In Spain I've heard el metro and in Argentina, el subte (short for subterráneo). Perhaps in context Tubo might be crystal clear, though.


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## scaglia

In context it is clarified. The Tube is how the London metro is called...


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## Moritzchen

Esta página de la embajada británica en Uruguay habla del "tubo".
En las ciudades de México, Madrid y Santiago se le llama "metro".
_Subte _es el nombre que se le da a la red subterránea únicamente en Buenos Aires.
(No entiendo lo del "euphemism for spheres")


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## Amapolas

Moritzchen said:


> (No entiendo lo del "euphemism for spheres")



Pelotas.


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## aztlaniano

k-in-sc said:


> I agree with gengo that ''a su merced'' is accurate in meaning but not in tone. Maybe they were just surprised you even knew what "by the proverbials" meant ... (thanks to us )


Ditto.
"A su merced" sí es el sentido de la frase pero no capta su gracia.


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## Moritzchen

Amapolas said:


> Pelotas.


Ah! Entonces esferas es el eufemismo!
Bueno...


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## k-in-sc

(The Tube is how *what* the London underground is called)
Spheres ... how early in the morning is it for you there?


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## Moritzchen

k-in-sc said:


> ...Spheres ... how early in the morning is it for you there?


Pretty early and add to it the lingering jetlag.
Well, they're not spherical.


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## k-in-sc

Spheroids?


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