# if it weren't for/were it not for



## akana

Is there a Finnish equivalent to the introductory clause "if it weren't for/were it not for?" 

An example:
"If it weren't for the electric light bulb, we'd see a lot more stars at night, and get a lot more sleep, too."

I _think_ I can make something similar work with _jollei_:
_Jollei sähkölamppua oltaisi keksitty, nähtäisiin paljon enemmän tähtiä, ja saataisiin paljon enemmän untakin.

_But I'm wondering if there is a way of leaving out the verb "to invent," or whatever other contextual information that might easily be inferred, or perhaps was already mentioned.

Other examples:
"If it weren't for you (having decided to pack at the last minute), we'd have been there three hours ago."
"If it weren't for the internet (having made information so accessible), we'd make a lot more trips to the library."
"If it weren't for the internet (having made international communication so accessible), learning a foreign language without living abroad would be very difficult."


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## etrade

_Jollei_, _ellei_ and _mikäli ei _come to my mind...


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## DrWatson

_Jollei_, _ellei_ and _mikäli ei_ all require a verb. You could also use _ilman _‘without’:

“Ilman sähkölamppua näkisimme paljon enemmän tähtiä ja saisimme enemmän untakin.”
“Ilman sinua/Ilman sinun vitkasteluasi olisimme olleet perillä jo kolme tuntia sitten.”
“Ilman internetiä kävisimme paljon useammin kirjastossa.”

Anyhow, there is no fixed expression or phrase.


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## akana

DrWatson said:


> _Jollei_, _ellei_ and _mikäli ei_ all require a verb. You could also use _ilman _‘without’:
> 
> “Ilman sähkölamppua näkisimme paljon enemmän tähtiä ja saisimme enemmän untakin.”
> “Ilman sinua/Ilman sinun vitkasteluasi olisimme olleet perillä jo kolme tuntia sitten.”
> “Ilman internetiä kävisimme paljon useammin kirjastossa.”
> 
> Anyhow, there is no fixed expression or phrase.



Paljon kiitoksia. Just after posting, "ilman" did occur to me, but I wasn't sure if it would work with the "ilman sinua" sentence. Would that sound idiomatic, then? I mean without the _vitkastelua _to clarify what is meant.


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## DrWatson

akana said:


> Paljon kiitoksia. Just after posting, "ilman" did occur to me, but I wasn't sure if it would work with the "ilman sinua" sentence. Would that sound idiomatic, then? I mean without the _vitkastelua _to clarify what is meant.


Of course, you're right. Plain _ilman sinua_ is very vague, and I agree that _ilman sinun vitkasteluasi/myöhästelyäsi_ is more idiomatic. But I'd say that in the 1st and 3rd sentence _ilman + [PART]_ works fine.


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