# Others before oneself, God before all



## vikingsfan19

I would really appreciate someone helping me out here because I've never studied Latin and I don't really trust online translators.  If you need any more info from me please ask.  Thanks again for your help.


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## Grüße HENK

*Hi!
Sorry I couldn't manage a more precise translation. I would propose:*
_"[Sint] aliqui super me, super omnibus deus [sit]!"_
*This is literally:*
"_Others [be] over me, over all [be] god_!"

*I'm not quite sure about:*
_super/over_: Of course, you didn't neccessarily mean _before_ to mean "_higher in hierarchy_". If you want it to mean "_earlier_" or "_apparent to_" let me know, I'll think of something.

Grüße, HENK


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## vikingsfan19

Yea that's what I was meaning before to be. Does anyone else have a different way they would translate it? Thanks for you help too.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Grüße said:


> *Hi!*
> *Sorry I couldn't manage a more precise translation. I would propose:*
> _"[Sint] aliqui super me, super omnibus deus [sit]!"_
> *This is literally:*
> "_Others [be] over me, over all [be] god_!"
> 
> *I'm not quite sure about:*
> _super/over_: Of course, you didn't neccessarily mean _before_ to mean "_higher in hierarchy_". If you want it to mean "_earlier_" or "_apparent to_" let me know, I'll think of something.
> 
> Grüße, HENK


 
"Super" is rather used  with an acc. in this meaning, but I think we can stick to the equivalent of "before", "ante" which can be used figuratively.
I would suggest :

"Nonnulli ante se, ante omnes sit Deus"


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## Fenoxielo

I think in this case, you should use _alii_, not _aliqui_, which is "someone" not "others." So, _alii super me, deus super omnibus._


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## Grüße HENK

Thanks for your corrections. I thought the Abl. was alright because of the stationary meaning of "to be/esse". It's not a motion, so why the Acc.? 
alii<=> aliqui <=>alteri Yep. These clusters of similar words keep giving me trouble. Same with quidem, quicumque, quidam,...
J.F. translation sounds better to me, too, especially the "se".

Henk


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## Fenoxielo

According to my dictionary, _super_ can be used with ablative or accusative, so I would think that the motion/stationary distinction would be made there.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Fenoxielo said:


> According to my dictionary, _super_ can be used with ablative or accusative, so I would think that the motion/stationary distinction would be made there.


 
You are right ; "super" may be followed by both cases, but the usual distinction abl. / acc. doesn't work with it . In the Gaffiot dictionary Latin-French, I read : 1- " Preposition + Acc. = on, above ( _with or without motion )_ ,   2- The Preposition + abl. has some shared meanings and thus is also possible here  (I am not sure; it seems to me that the acc. is favoured )
The ancient acc./ abl.distinction to tell motion from stationary chiefly remained with "in" and  "sub" , but tended to disappear in classical Latin with "super" and "subter". Most of prepositions followed by the only acc. don't take this point into account ("Latin Syntax" by A.Ernout and F. Thomas )


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## vikingsfan19

So what would be the final translation here?  I asked the same question on another forum and they came up with "_Alii supra me; Deus supra omnes."  _They also thought that "ceteri" could possibly be used instead of Alii.


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## Fenoxielo

_Ceteri_ means "the rest" as in the phrase _et cetera_. It seems that either _alii super me, deus super omnibus_ OR _alii super me, deus super omnes_ would work.


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## vikingsfan19

is there any difference between super and supra?


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## J.F. de TROYES

vikingsfan19 said:


> is there any difference between super and supra?


 
Both can be used here and in most contexts.


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## zouzounaki

Alii ante me, ante omnes Deus

(ante rige acusativo, asi que no puede ser ante omnibus)


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## L'aura che tu respiri

Fenoxielo said:


> According to my dictionary, _super_ can be used with ablative or accusative,



My dictionaries all say that, as well. However, I am finding that _super_ almost always takes the accusative, even when there is no motion. This is very confusing to me. For instance, “to keep watch over him” to me does not imply any motion whatsoever. Why wouldn’t “him” be  in the ablative in this instance?


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## J.F. de TROYES

L'aura che tu respiri said:


> My dictionaries all say that, as well. However, I am finding that _super_ almost always takes the accusative, even when there is no motion. This is very confusing to me. For instance, “to keep watch over him” to me does not imply any motion whatsoever. Why wouldn’t “him” be  in the ablative in this instance?




Could you please have a look at my previous post ( above ) I wrote ages ago . Unfortunately using the accusative or the ablative after a preposition cannot always fit in with the opposition _motion vs no motion_ as it works after_ in. _It depends on the meaning of the preposition  and, for example, it's very uneasy to explain why the acc. is used in _super omnia ( above all ) _rather than the abl. Anyhow I think _to keep watch over him _would be translated with transitive verbs like _observo_ or _speculor_.


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