# underworld vs. inferno



## gian_eagle

I hope this topic is correct to be here.

In the anime series *Saint Seiya *or *Knights of the Zodiac* (in English)

the translation for the new OAV (Original Animation Video) of the *Hades Saga* is named as:

*Saint Seiya Hades - Chapter Inferno*

I thought this was going to be "*Underworld Chapter*"

as the Greek God Hades is called as "*King of the Underworld*".

Does somebody have any idea of this?

on http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=underworld&word2=inferno

here, "underworld" is more often than "inferno"


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## Outsider

The Underworld (or Inferno in Latin languages, a term which English has borrowed) was the Land of the Dead in ancient religions. All souls went to the Underworld after death.
With the rise of Christianity, the notion of Underworld was replaced with the one of a "Heaven" above. The good souls ascended to Heaven, and only the bad souls went below to the "Inferno". So, the two terms, Underworld and Inferno are somewhat synonymous, at least in a pagan context (as is probably the case in the game you mentioned).


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## gian_eagle

Yes, I think it has. This anime TV series, especially this Saga, is based on *The Divine Comedy* of Dante Allighieri.

And... what about *Inferno vs. Hell???*


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## Jhorer Brishti

Although what Outsider said is undoubtedly true, in English Inferno conjures up an image of hell or at least blazing fires and "Underworld" corresponds more directly to a gloomy, less torturous area, much like the abode of Hades. Underworld also of course refers extensionally to the parallel contrasting life and deeds of local criminals/drug dealers/gangsters,etc in relation to the normal "good samaritan" axiom of its denizens.


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## gian_eagle

So, Underworld does not necessary implies Purgatory, right?


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## Outsider

gian_eagle said:
			
		

> Yes, I think it has. This anime TV series, especially this Saga, is based on *The Divine Comedy* of Dante Allighieri.


But _The Divine Comedy_ is a Christian work!



			
				gian_eagle said:
			
		

> And... what about *Inferno vs. Hell???*


Jhorer is quite right in pointing out that the words have different connotations in English:

Underworld: somewhat old-fashioned term for "Hell" in Christianity and other religions, or "the Land of the Dead" in ancient pagan religions.

Hell: normal term in Christianity and other religions for the place where bad souls go to be punished after death. Figuratively, a very unpleasant or chaotic situation or experience. ("Traffic was hell today." "Let's give them hell!")

Inferno: In English, used mostly in the sense of "violent or unpleasant situation; violent disaster".


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## Outsider

gian_eagle said:
			
		

> So, Underworld does not necessary implies Purgatory, right?


If the context is Dante's _Divine Comedy_, then "Underworld" quite likely does not mean "Purgatory". Heaven, Hell and Purgatory were three distinct places, for Dante.


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## gian_eagle

Ok, outsider, sorry, I got confused. So in this case we may use* Inferno*, as the series go only in the terrain of the damned souls. The following chapter is *Elyssium*, which I suppose is a sort of Paradise.


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## gian_eagle

Outsider said:
			
		

> Inferno: In English, used mostly in the sense of "violent or unpleasant situation; violent disaster".


 
You mean like describing a fire as a blazing inferno??


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## Outsider

Exactly. That's the idea that "inferno" gives out in English.


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## gian_eagle

So the territory of the Damned souls can also be named as *Inferno* in this case??


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## gian_eagle

Siguiendo con las dudas, *The Underworld* se podría traducir como *El Inframundo? *


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## foxfirebrand

I think the problem here is that the pop-culture anime scene is not one where a strict doctrinal correspondence between the pagan and the Medieval Christian is at issue. Neither the pagan Hades nor Tartarus corresponds to the Christian concept of Hell as depicted in _L'Inferno_, and the Elysian Fields might correspond to Paradise, but not Heaven, a place Christians have always argued and been confused about. Is Heaven a transcendant metamorphosis into God's presence, as Jesus seemed to be getting at-- or is it simply a return to Eden, a form of redemption from Original Sin as Christian thinkers who use the term _Paradise_ imply?  There have always been two "armed camps" of criticism when it comes to Dante-- was he a Christian or a pagan?

I don't think an anime series is trying to enter this fray of dancing angels on pinheads, when it conflates one Afterlife region with another, or draws parallels, or "remakes" _La Commedia Divina._ Which is probably a good thing-- don't ge me wrong. It's just that stricture in the quest for definitions is probably beside the point.

Unless you want to be one of those scholars who aspire to be the Thomas Aquinas of Lovecraftian cosmogony, or the Noah Webster of the Vulcan language.
.


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## gian_eagle

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Unless you want to be one of those scholars who aspire to be the Thomas Aquinas of Lovecraftian cosmogony, or the Noah Webster of the Vulcan language.
> .


 
hahahaha... that's a good one!

well, i know i shouldn't confuse in this case underworld and hell, neither Elyssium with Heaven, as their is also the place for the Olympian gods, which is not quoted here. In this TVseries, Zeus has a sacred placed and Hades a paradise of his own, both are different places, I don't know if this is the same as Greek Mythology or in Dante's work.


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## foxfirebrand

gian_eagle said:
			
		

> In this TVseries, Zeus has a sacred placed and Hades a paradise of his own, both are different places, I don't know if this is the same as Greek Mythology or in Dante's work.


 And it looks like you agree with me that it's not necessary to dig into this question too deeply. The series is enjoyable on its own merits, and is using mythic icons in a cartoonish way-- they're like the character Arnold Schwarzenegger played in _Hercules in New York,_ and aren't meant to be scholarly.

That's why I wanted to make sure it's understood that I don't think this light stuff is a bad thing. I enjoy the "Three Stooges Meet Snow White" type entertainment myself, without wondering what the Brothers Grimm might've thought of it.

If they were alive today, children of the future might have Stooge Tales-- who knows?
.


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## gian_eagle

I think is like a movie and a novel: both are different versions. And in a movie the director wants to make a different focus on the author's story. The problem there is that almost never the movie is better than the novel.

Yeah, I really like parodies, like for example "The Holy Grial" (King Arthur and his knights) or "Brian's Life" (The life of Jesus Christ), parody movies from Monty Python.


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## gian_eagle

When trying to look for the spanish translation of _Tártaro_ which is Tartarus in English, I found this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

"Hades is sometimes employed by Christians as a classicizing euphemism for *Hell*, which otherwise has few of the attributes of Hades (...) There were several sections of Hades, including the *Elysian Fields* (contrast the Christian *Paradise* or *Heaven*), and *Tartarus**,* (compare the Christian *Hell*)".


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## gian_eagle

gian_eagle said:
			
		

> I think is like a movie and a novel: both are different versions. And in a movie the director wants to make a different focus on the author's story. The problem there is that almost never the movie is better than the novel.
> 
> Yeah, I really like parodies, like for example "The Holy Grial" (King Arthur and his knights) or "Brian's Life" (The life of Jesus Christ), parody movies from Monty Python.


 
A little mistake here, it is *"the Holy Grail"*.


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## gian_eagle

gian_eagle said:
			
		

> When trying to look for the spanish translation of _Tártaro_ which is Tartarus in English, I found this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
> 
> "Hades is sometimes employed by Christians as a classicizing euphemism for *Hell*, which otherwise has few of the attributes of Hades (...) There were several sections of Hades, including the *Elysian Fields* (contrast the Christian *Paradise* or *Heaven*), and *Tartarus**,* (compare the Christian *Hell*)".


 
Any comments, people?


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## Outsider

What kind of comments were you hoping for?


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## gian_eagle

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I wanted to clarify at this point was to know the difference between *Paradise-Elysian Fields *vs.* Hell-Tartarus.* Because the context in *wikipedia* is not clear enough.


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## Outsider

There are many websites online that can clarify that much better than I even would. Search for "classical mythology", "Greco-Roman mythology", "Greek mythology". I myself like Carlos Parada's Greek Mythology Link.


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## gian_eagle

Thanks for the tips, Obrigado, Outsider!

according to the page you sent: 

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/001ShortEntries/SGCabeiraea.html

*"Tartaros*. A gloomy place in the Underworld. Place of Punishment. "

*"Elysium (Elysians Fields)*. The place where mortals made immortal dwell . There is then a spot where the way forks in two directions, the right-hand leading, under the Palace of Hades, to Elysium, and the left-hand taking down to Tartarus."


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