# nouns and suffixes



## turkishlearner07

I have a relatively simple question that just seems to confuse me.

I understand how verbs can be conjugated to Ben, Sen, O, Biz, Siz, Onlar with the corrosponding consonaent mutulation according the the past tense (di, dı, du, and dü; the future tense (which I don't really know), and the present tense (yor).

But heres my question: how come it seems that some of the conjugations used for the verbs is also used for nouns why is this? Or am I horribly wrong... haha which is very likely.


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## Chazzwozzer

Can you please provide some example sentences, Trevor?


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## modus.irrealis

Maybe you mean things like _talebeyim _"I am a student", _talebeydim_ "I was a student" and so on? If that's so, I'd say that you can just think of the verb "to be" as having some of its forms as suffixes that have to be attached to the preceding word instead of existing as independent words, so you're not really conjugating the noun. Also, you can have things like _evdeyim _"I am at home" where you add the suffix to the locative case of a noun.

(There's probably a deeper reason for all this and I'm guessing it's that most of the verb forms were just participles at one point and were treated like any other adjective and had to be used with "to be".)


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## turkishlearner07

modus.irrealis said:


> Maybe you mean things like _talebeyim _"I am a student", _talebeydim_ "I was a student" and so on? If that's so, I'd say that you can just think of the verb "to be" as having some of its forms as suffixes that have to be attached to the preceding word instead of existing as independent words, so you're not really conjugating the noun. Also, you can have things like _evdeyim _"I am at home" where you add the suffix to the locative case of a noun.
> 
> (There's probably a deeper reason for all this and I'm guessing it's that most of the verb forms were just participles at one point and were treated like any other adjective and had to be used with "to be".)



Yes! that makes sooo much sense. 
So to put the verb to be on a noun you just add yor, di, etc.. to the end with the corresponding vowel harmony ending? Will any noun work, providing that the sentence makes sense?

are these correct then:
caddedim --> I was in the street
trenyorım --> I am in the train
paltoyor --> he is in the overcoat
bahçedinik --> we are in the yard
ağacyurum --> I am in the tree


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## ukuca

turkishlearner07 said:


> Y
> are these correct then:
> caddedim --> I was in the street
> trenyorım --> I am in the train
> paltoyor --> he is in the overcoat
> bahçedinik --> we are in the yard
> ağacyurum --> I am in the tree



Actually they are:
Cadde-de-y-di-m.
Tren-de-y-im.
Palto??? > Paltosu var / Palto giy-i-yor.
Bahçe-de-y-dik.
Ağaç-ta-y-ım.


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## ~ceLine~

Cadde (street) - de (in) idim (I was)


.. but each passing they the people changed it for speaking more fast ..
Caddedeydim. 



Cadde (street) - de (in)  - y - im (I / for now) 


y = saying "caddedeim" is diffcuult so the people changed it (hehe ahh people )


Caddedeyim


Caddedeydik, caddedeydiniz, caddedeydiler ... etc ...



Also ,that's same for the others.


Ağaç(tree) - ta (in - ağaçda is diffucult for saying) -y (for speakin more fast ) - ım (I / for now)



I hope, you understood.


The rules are a little bit complicated I think so =) ...


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## turkishlearner07

ukuca said:


> Actually they are:
> Cadde-de-y-di-m.
> Tren-de-y-im.
> Palto??? > Paltosu var / Palto giy-i-yor.
> Bahçe-de-y-dik.
> Ağaç-ta-y-ım.



Ok that makes sense, I forgot to include the suffix of de/da. 



~ceLine~ said:


> Cadde (street) - de (in) idim (I was)
> 
> .. but each passing they the people changed it for speaking more fast ..
> Caddedeydim.
> 
> Cadde (street) - de (in)  - y - im (I / for now)
> 
> y = saying "caddedeim" is diffcuult so the people changed it (hehe ahh people )
> 
> Caddedeyim
> 
> Caddedeydik, caddedeydiniz, caddedeydiler ... etc ...
> 
> Also ,that's same for the others.
> 
> Ağaç(tree) - ta (in - ağaçda is diffucult for saying) -y (for speakin more fast ) - ım (I / for now)
> 
> I hope, you understood.
> 
> The rules are a little bit complicated I think so =) ...



  So is both correct then? is caddededim correct? it seems to follow vowel harmony even though it is difficult to say. haha it is really difficult to say, even with the y i think...


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## Chazzwozzer

turkishlearner07 said:


> So is both correct then? is caddededim correct? it seems to follow vowel harmony even though it is difficult to say. haha it is really difficult to say, even with the y i think...


Caddedeim is incrorect. It is either "caddede idim" or "caddedeydim". You'll only hear the second version for sure.


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## ukuca

When a word ending with a vowel sound takes a vowel leading sound, we use some additional suffixes (y, ş, s, n) for euphony. These letters are called “kaynaştırma harfleri” (combining letters [?]).

Ana-*s*-ı   öldü.                       > His/Her mother died.
İki-*ş*-er elma   aldık.  > We took two apples each.
Arkadaşı-*n*-ı   ara!                > Call your friend!
Araba-*y*-ı   getir.                   > Get the car.


These combining letters are basically used between two vowel sounds, except :

1- If  the “-de”, “-den” or “-ler” suffixes come after a vowel ending word, we put “-n” in the middle

Şu-*n*-da
O-*n*-dan
Bu-*n*-ları


2- If the “ile”, “idi”, “imiş”, “ise” suffixes come after a vowel ending word, the letter (i) in the beginning of these suffixes vanishes or changes itself to (y):

çanta-ile         >          çanta*y*la
Arkadaşı idi   >          Arkadaşı*y*dı
Annesi imiş   >          Annesi*y*miş
Geldi ise        >          Geldi*y*se


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## jaxlarus

ukuca said:


> When a word ending with a vowel sound takes a vowel leading sound, we use some additional suffixes (y, ş, s, n) for euphony. These letters are called “kaynaştırma harfleri” (*combining letters* [?]).



I encountered them as buffer letters in English and Συνδετικά (συγκολλητικά) γράμματα [Connectıve (agglutinant) letters] in Greek:

_In Turkish, two vowels do not come together in the word (except in some words of non-Turkish origin). So when the base of a word ends in a vowel and the suffix also begins with a vowel, a buffer is needed between two vowels. With most suffixes, this buffer is *-y-*._

*Bengisu Rona*, Lecturer in Turkish Studies
School of Oriental & African Studies
University of London

I don't claim this is the official linguistic term, though.


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## ukuca

jaxlarus said:


> I encountered them as buffer letters in English and Συνδετικά (συγκολλητικά) γράμματα [Connectıve (agglutinant) letters] in Greek:



Yeah, it's just a translation of mine, I wasn't sure what they call them in linguistics that's why I put them in brackets and added the question mark.


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## tireks

turkishlearner07 said:


> Ok that makes sense, I forgot to include the suffix of de/da.
> 
> 
> 
> So is both correct then? is caddededim correct? it seems to follow vowel harmony even though it is difficult to say. haha it is really difficult to say, even with the y i think...


 
first you have to learn the suffixes used with nouns. 

(for the first person) -im (present)
(for the first person) -dim (past)

tren - de - yim present
the train - in - I am 

tren - de - ydim past
the train - in - I was
---------------------------
cadde - de - yim present
the street - in - I am

cadde - de - ydim past
the street - in - I was

A: Neredesin? (Nerede + sin) (Where + are you)
B: Caddedeyim. (Cadde - de - yim.) (the street + in + I am)


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## cynicmystic

Why is 'caddedeyim' incorrect. Caddedeydim and caddedeyim have two different meanings, and caddedeyim is very often used in the sense that it means you are currently on the street, whereas the other means that you were on the street.

Caddedeyim
Caddedesin
Caddede.... Nerede? Iste orda, caddede. 



Chazzwozzer said:


> Caddedeim is incrorect. It is either "caddede idim" or "caddedeydim". You'll only hear the second version for sure.


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## Chazzwozzer

cynicmystic said:


> Why is 'caddedeyim' incorrect. Caddedeydim and caddedeyim have two different meanings, and caddedeyim is very often used in the sense that it means you are currently on the street, whereas the other means that you were on the street.
> 
> Caddedeyim
> Caddedesin
> Caddede.... Nerede? Iste orda, caddede.


The spelling was tricky.

Caddedeim is incorrect.
Caddedeyim is, of course, correct.


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## jaxlarus

turkishlearner07 said:


> But heres my question: how come it seems that some of the conjugations used for the verbs is also used for nouns why is this? Or am I horribly wrong... haha which is very likely.



Of course I don't claim to be an expert on the language but as a learner myself, maybe I could clarify it to you. The personal suffixes that have the function of the verb 'to be' in English are used where in English you would say 'I am...'. No matter what, how, where, where from, who with etc you are.

In English you'd say I am a doctor / well / behind the door / from Ankara* / with a friend. Well, it's exactly the same in Turkish, but you always have to keep in mind that you 'stick' the personal suffixes to the last word of the equivalent Turkish translation respecting the vowel harmony and the subsequent rules that you have to master in advance. My suggestion is that you learn the suffixes with their buffers, if any, like *-(y)im*, *-(y)ken*, *-(y)ebil*. That way, you have better chances to get them right.

So, the examples above would be translated as:

Doktorum
İyiyim
Kapının arkasındayım
Ankara'danım
Bir arkadaşlayım

I hope the examples made things a bit more clear for you 

---------------------------------

*NB not as 'I'm from London = I'm a Londoner', as that would be Ankaralι. Think of it rather in third person singular as in '[this book] is from Ankara'.


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## F84

Turkishlearner7

Do you mean for example evde-y-im (I am at home) and kalem-i-m (my pen)? The suffixe -im is used for both conjugation and instead of adjective pronoun. However they are not the same suffixes, the first one is -im, the second one is only -m (like araba-m = my car)


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## turkishlearner07

jaxlarus said:


> My suggestion is that you learn the suffixes with their buffers, if any, like *-(y)im*, *-(y)ken*, *-(y)ebil*. That way, you have better chances to get them right.
> 
> So, the examples above would be translated as:
> 
> Doktorum
> İyiyim
> Kapının arkasındayım
> Ankara'danım
> Bir arkadaşlayım
> 
> I hope the examples made things a bit more clear for you


\
Yea cheers mate, but how does Bir arkadaşiayim mean I am wıth a frıend?

Also what do the suffixes (y)ken, and (y)ebil mean? Can you provide some examples?



F84 said:


> Turkishlearner7
> 
> Do you mean for example evde-y-im (I am at home) and kalem-i-m (my pen)? The suffixe -im is used for both conjugation and instead of adjective pronoun. However they are not the same suffixes, the first one is -im, the second one is only -m (like araba-m = my car)



Yes that was exactly my question, so for example you can say evde-y-in for you (formal), evde - ? for he/she, evde - y - ik for we, evde - y - iniz for you (informal), or evde-y-ler for they are at home?

Teşekkürler


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## ukuca

turkishlearner07 said:


> \
> Yea cheers mate, but how does Bir arkadaşiayim mean I am wıth a frıend?
> 
> Also what do the suffixes (y)ken, and (y)ebil mean? Can you provide some examples?



*   Bir    arkadaş -ile   (y)  -im*. > Bir arkadaş -la -y -ım. > Bir arkadaşlayım.
* (one)   (friend) (with)       (I)*


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## ukuca

turkishlearner07 said:


> \
> 
> Also what do the suffixes (y)ken, and (y)ebil mean? Can you provide some examples?
> 
> Yes that was exactly my question, so for example you can say evde-y-in for you (formal), evde - ? for he/she, evde - y - ik for we, evde - y - iniz for you (informal), or evde-y-ler for they are at home?



1. (i) becomes (y): for example:
benimle  -iken > benimleyken
evde  -iken  > evdeyken

2. izle -ebilmek > izle (-y) -e -bilmek > izleyebilmek
--------------------
For your second question, it goes like this:
- Ben evdeyim.
- Sen evdesin.
- O evde.
- Biz evdeyiz.
- Siz evdesiniz.
- Onlar evdeler.


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## jaxlarus

turkishlearner07 said:


> Yea cheers mate, but how does Bir arkadaşiayim mean I am wıth a frıend?



NB: Not *arkadaşiayım*, *arkadaşlayım* = *arkadaş* + *(Y)LE* + *(Y)İM*

*İLE *may be used as a separate word meaning 'with, by, by means of, through', but more frequently it is used as a suffix in the form of *-(Y)LE*:

1. If the word ends in a vowel, the suffix is *-yle* or *-yla*:

araba*yla* - by car
öğrenci*yle* - with the student
kedi*yle* - with the cat
ne*yle* - with what, by what?

2. If the word ends in a consonant, the suffix is *-le* or *-la*:

tren*le* - by train
adam*la* - with the man
uçak*la* - by plane (also 'by air mail')

* İLE* is also used to mean 'and' where it implies a togetherness, for instance:

* Ahmetle Mehmet bu akşam bize geliyor.* Ahmet and Mehmet are coming (together) to (see) us tonight. 
* Ekmekle peynir yedik.* We ate bread and cheese.
* Havluyla mayoyu aldım.*  I took the towel and the bathing suit.

Note that the object suffix has been ommitted in *havluyla*: *İLE* does not follow case suffixes, but it can be used with the possessive suffix. For instance:

* Havlumla mayomu aldım.* I took my towel and my bathing suit.
* Gömleğimle şortumu giydim.* I put on my shirt and shorts.

When *İLE *is used with a pronoun, the pronoun is always in the genitive form, except the pronouns  that end in *-LER*. The same happens with the interrogative *kim*.

Personal: *benimle*, *seninle*, *onunla*, *bizimle*, *sizinle*, *onlarla*
Demonstrarive: *bununla *- *bunlarla*, *şununla *- *şunlarla*, *onunla *- *onlarla*
Interrogative: *kiminle*, *kimlerle*

* Onlarla sinemaya gidiyor musun?* Are you going to the cınema with them?
* Tatile kiminle gidiyorsunuz?* With whom are you going on holiday?




turkishlearner07 said:


> Also what do the suffixes (y)ken, and (y)ebil mean? Can you provide some examples?


*İKEN* / *-(Y)KEN
**-(Y)KEN* is used to mean 'while'. It can also occur as an independent word by itself, *İKEN*, but is seldom so used. Note that it is always non-harmonic. it can be used after nouns, adjectives or after verbs, in which case there must by a tense ending preceding it. It can be translated into English as 'when' or '-ing' as well as 'while'.

*İstanbul'dayken bütün müzeleri gezdik. *We visited all the museums while (we were) in Istanbul.
*Çocukken çok futbol oynadım.* I played a lot of football when I was I child

When used with a verb base, the tense suffix that procedes *-(Y)KEN* is mostly the aorist:

*Yemeğe gelirken çiçek getirdiler.* They brought flowers when they came to dinner.
*Türkçe öğrenirken iki ay Türkiye'de kaldım. *I stayed in Turkey for two months while (when) I was learning Turkısh.
*Postaneye giderken bu mektubu da götürür müsünüz lütfen?* When you go to the post office will you please take this letter as well?

When *-(Y)KEN* is used following the future ending, the combined form means 'while/just as intending to do something'; and the second part of the sentence generally shows that the intention has not been fulfilled.
*
Ankara'ya trenle gidecekken son dakikada vazgeçtik, otobüsle gittik.* While we were due to go to Ankara by train, we changed our mind at the last minute and when by coach.

But that's another story...  

*-(Y)EBİL*: can, to be able to, may
This suffix is added to verbs to indicate that a certain action can be done, or that it is possible to perform that action. It's a combination of two forms: *-(YE)* and *-BİL*, which comes from the verb *bilmek *'to know' and does not harmonize with the base. It is always followed by a tense suffix, often the aorist.

*Yüzebilirim *- I am able to swim, I can swim, I may swim.
*Saat sekizde gelebilir misiniz?* Can you come at eight o'clock?
*Caminin içinde fotoğraf çekebilir miyim?* May I (is it possible to) take pictures in the mosque?
*Üç ay sonra Türkçe konuşabileceksiniz.* You'll be able to speak Turkish after three months.
*Uçak çok gecikti ama akşam yemeğinden önce otelimize varabildik. *The plane was very late, but we were able to arrive at our hotel before dinner.
*Pencereyi açabilir miyim?* May I open the window?

The negative is again another story... 



turkishlearner07 said:


> Yes that was exactly my question, so for example you can say evde-y-in for you (formal), evde - ? for he/she, evde - y - ik for we, evde - y - iniz for you (informal), or evde-y-ler for they are at home?



Hmm... I'm sorry to say that except for *evde(dir)*, the rest of your examples are wrong. I think you mixed up the personal suffixes with the possessives and the past tense personal suffixes... Plus, not all the personal suffixes need the -y- buffer. I'll give you the three below, but my opinion is that you take one step at a time. "Don't try to run before you're able to walk" as I was once told...

Personal suffixes ('to be'): *-(Y)İM*, *-SİN*, *(-DİR)*, *-(Y)İZ*, *-SİNİZ*, *-DİR(LER)*
Possessives *-(İ)M*, *-(İ)N*, *-(S)İ(N)*, *-(İ)MİZ*, -*(İ)NİZ*, *-LERİ(N)*
Past tense personal suffixes: Past tense suffix *-(Y)Dİ* + *-M*, *-N*, *(NONE)*, *-K*, *-NİZ*, *(-LER)

*Let's take the same word, *ev*:

Be at home: *Evdeyim, evdesin, evde(dir), evdeyiz, evdesiniz, evdedir(ler)*
My, your, etc house: *Evim, evin, evi, evimiz, eviniz, evleri*
Was at home: *Evdeydim, evdeydin, evdeydi, evdeydik, evdeydiniz, evdeydi(ler)

*Note that, because of the similarities between the suffixes, some words may be indistinguishable:
*Doktorum *may mean *I am a doktor* = *doktor*+*(Y)İM* or *my doktor* = *doktor+(İ)M*
*Evleri *may mean *the houses*, *his houses*, *their house* or *their houses*!

The buffers for the possessives are a story of their own, i.e. when the -n- buffer is used and when not. Just be patient. 

You'll eventually sort these things out, trust me


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## ukuca

Don't forget that *ile* and *iken* can also be written separate from the word, for example:
- üzüntülü iken > üzüntülüyken
- çalışır iken  > çalışırken
- Ahmet ile Mehmet  > Ahmet'le Mehmet (with apostrophe)
- gömlek ile kravat  > gömlekle kravat (without apostrophe)


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