# Impf and pf of the verb "to go"



## alevtinka

I'm confused with the difference between these two sentences" 

eсли oн придёт, мы поeдем зa гoрод.

eсли oн придёт, мы идeм зa гoрод.

The 2nd one, I understand it as "If he arrives, we'll be in the process of going to the city".

The 1st one, "If he arrives, we will have left for the city" ?


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## Valvs

No. Both could be translated as "If he arrives/comes here, we will go out of the city/to the countryside" (probably for a picnic or something like that).

Do you realize that you are actually comparing two different verbs rather just two forms of the same verb?
"По*е*дем" is a future tense form of "поехать" (to take a ride, to go somewhere using some form of transport, e.g. e car, a bus, etc.)
"Идём" is a present-tense form of "идти" (to walk, to go on foot). 

While it is true that "поехать" is perfective and "идти" is imperfective, it is not that important in your example. The present tense is often used instead of the future, especially in colloquial Russian. Thus, instead of "Сегодня вечером мы пойдём в кино" you can say "Сегодня вечером мы идём в кино". 

The semantic difference between the two sentences (ride vs walk) is much more important than the grammatical one.


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## Maroseika

The first one means: If he arrives, we *will go* to the countryside.
The second one is wrong (or maybe possible in the very specific context).

За город means "to the countryside".

If you want to say "If he arrives, we will have left for the cityЭб it will be something like that:
Если он придет, мы уже уедем за город.


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## alevtinka

I chosee wrong verbs to compare as Valvs said. 

Could I translate them as:

мы поeдем зa гoрод - We will go (We will be no longer at home)

мы едeм зa гoрод - We will leave for countryside soon (in several minutes)

@ Maroseika

Does the word "уже" usually used to make somewhat [future perfect] ?


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## Maroseika

alevtinka said:


> I chosee wrong verbs to compare as Valvs said.
> 
> Could I translate them as:
> 
> мы поeдем зa гoрод - We will go (We will be no longer at home)
> 
> мы едeм зa гoрод - We will leave for countryside soon (in several minutes)



As the matter of fact, the verb in Present can be used for Future action as well, and that's why all this confusion, I guess:

Мы едем за город. - We are *now *in the process of going to the countryside.
Завтра мы едем за город. - *Tomorrow *we are going to the countryside.
Мы едем (better уезжаем) за город через 5 минут.

The difference between future action expressed by the verbs in Present Imperfect and Future Perfect is sometimes rather subtle, but still real. 






> @ Maroseika
> 
> Does the word "уже" usually used to make somewhat [future perfect] ?


Sometimes it is clear from the context, but sometimes we need additional words to mark it.
Cf.
Если он придет, мы уже уедем за город (i.e. *by the time* he arrives we'll have left).
Если он придет, мы уедем за город. (i.e. *after *he will come, we will leave).

But:
Когда ты придешь, меня уже не будет дома


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## alevtinka

Thank you very much )))


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## Ben Jamin

Maroseika said:


> The difference between future action expressed by the verbs in Present Imperfect and Future Perfect is sometimes rather subtle, but still real.


 
What is *present imperfect*?


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## Maroseika

Ben Jamin said:


> What is *present imperfect*?


Sorry, I meant Imperfective - a verb in Imp. Aspect in Present Tense (глагол несовершенного вида в настоящем времени).


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## Ben Jamin

Maroseika said:


> Sorry, I meant Imperfective - a verb in Imp. Aspect in Present Tense (глагол несовершенного вида в настоящем времени).


Can present be perfective in Russian? I thought all Slavic languages were like in this respect. A perfective verb in present form means Future I
я пишу - imperfective (present)
я напишу - perfective (future I)


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## Maroseika

Ben Jamin said:


> Can present be perfective in Russian? I thought all Slavic languages were like in this respect. A perfective verb in present form means Future I
> я пишу - imperfective (present)
> я напишу - perfective (future I)



Sure, you are right. But this cannot change the fact that such a verb as пишу is described like that: 1st person, Singular, Imperfect, Present Tense. I'm afraid your are taking my words out of context. I just wrote that verbs in Present Imperfect and Future Perfect can be both used for expression of the action in future, nothing else. Anything wrong?


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## Sobakus

Ben Jamin said:


> Can present be perfective in Russian? I thought all Slavic languages were like in this respect. A perfective verb in present form means Future I
> я пишу - imperfective (present)
> я напишу - perfective (future I)



Actually, in BCS there is present perfective, that's the only thing know about it though.


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## Ben Jamin

Maroseika said:


> Sure, you are right. But this cannot change the fact that such a verb as пишу is described like that: 1st person, Singular, Imperfect, Present Tense. I'm afraid your are taking my words out of context. I just wrote that verbs in Present Imperfect and Future Perfect can be both used for expression of the action in future, nothing else. Anything wrong?


 
I just only thought that adding 'imperfect' to 'present tense' is reduntant, since present tense can't be anything else than imperfect.


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## Ben Jamin

Sobakus said:


> Actually, in BCS there is present perfective, that's the only thing know about it though.


 I have read the Wikipedia article about stanadrd Croatian and did not find anything about present perfect(ive). Does it exist in dialects?


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## Valvs

Actually, it is Bulgarian that has perfective present (see here, for example)


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## Maroseika

Ben Jamin said:


> I just only thought that adding 'imperfect' to 'present tense' is reduntant, since present tense can't be anything else than imperfect.



I hope it was not ambiguous or confusing in the context, at least the topicstarter seems to have understood what I meant. I just wanted to outline the Imperfective could work as for Present as for Future Simple.


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## Ben Jamin

Maroseika said:


> I hope it was not ambiguous or confusing in the context, at least the topicstarter seems to have understood what I meant. I just wanted to outline the Imperfective could work as for Present as for Future Simple.


Somebody, not knowing the Russian language, could interprete this the following way: 'if there is present imperfect, then there should be present perfect too', but of course, it would only be an inference.


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## Maroseika

My only dream is that he would not bring a legal action against me.


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## alevtinka

My understanding:

1) Non-past form of a Pf verb refers to the [future tense] 

Я прочитаю книгу - I will read the book

2) Non-past form of a Impf verb refers to the [present non-completed tense]

Я читаю книгу - I am reading the book

Я читаю книгу - I read the book (now)

3) Past form of a Pf verb refers to [past simple] and [present perfect]

Я прочитал книгу - I read the book (yesterday) / I finished reading the book yesterday

Я прочитал книгу - I've read the book

4) Past form of a Impf verb refers to [habitual, incomplete, or past continuous]

Я читал книги - I used to read books

Я читал книги - I was reading the books

--------------------------------------------

I'm not sure about the negative form of each forms.

I haven't read it - ???

I didn't read it - ???

I've never read it - ???


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## Maroseika

alevtinka said:


> I'm not sure about the negative form of each forms.



All seems right.

I haven't read it - не прочитал

I didn't read it - не читал

I've never read it - никогда не читал (так никогда и не прочитал)


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## Cleare

alevtinka said:


> eсли oн придёт, мы идeм зa гoрод.


 
For me it's a mistake here:

Ecли он приедет, мы *пойдём* за город.

If he comes, we'll go to the country.

Go means "walk".


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## Sobakus

cleare said:


> for me it's a mistake here:
> 
> Ecли он приедет, мы *пойдём* за город.
> 
> If he comes, we'll go to the country.
> 
> Go means "walk".



И "если он через 5 минут не подъедет, я ухожу" вам кажется неправильным?


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## Maroseika

Дети, если папа придет с работы рано, мы идем в лес, а если поздно, то никуда не идем, потому что идти в лес без папы - деньги на ветер, а идти в лес поздно - страшно даже с папой.


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## Cleare

sobakus said:


> И "если он через 5 минут не подъедет, я ухожу" вам кажется неправильным?


 
а это уже другой пример... с подменой будущего настоящим.

см. "Глаголы движения", автор Г.Л.Скворцова, Москва 2006.


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## Sobakus

Cleare said:


> а это уже другой пример... с подменой будущего настоящим.
> 
> см. "Глаголы движения", автор Г.Л.Скворцова, Москва 2006.



Дык в этой теме про то речь и идёт, и в выражении, которое вам показалось неправильным(eсли oн придёт, мы идeм зa гoрод.), та же самая подмена.


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## Cleare

Sobakus said:


> Дык в этой теме про то речь и идёт, и в выражении, которое вам показалось неправильным(eсли oн придёт, мы идeм зa гoрод.), та же самая подмена.


 
так замена-то считается просторечием...


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## Sobakus

Если им и считается(в чём лично сумневаюсь), всё равно не ошибка.


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