# magna cum laude



## epistolario

How do you pronounce *magna cum laude* in Latin? 

I just want to verify because I have been hearing Americans pronounce it as such (mag-na). However, I have heard some locals pronounce *gn* in *magna* like the French or Italian *gn* or the Spanish *ñ*. 

spagnolo
espagnol
español

Is there a basis for such pronunciation? Thanks.


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## Flaminius

If the same people pronounce _Cicero_ as "chichero" as opposed to "kikero" or _pacem_ as "pachem" as opposed to "pakem", the chances are that they are wont to pronounce Latin according to the conventions followed by the Roman Catholic Church.  In this practise, «gn» is pronounced as the Spanish ñ.


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## Aoyama

> «gn»[in Latin] is pronounced as the Spanish ñ.


Well, I have never heard *magna *pronounced as in French montagne , in France or in Italy. I am not sure about Spain, but I would still think that mag-na  is the usual pronounciation.


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## Cagey

This website has an audio of the pronounciation of *magna* according to the American convention.  (It may take a while to load.)  

This pronounciation accords with scholars' efforts to reconstruct the pronounciation in the time of Cicero.   As Flaminus' answer implies, the pronounciation of Latin has changed over time and in various places.   (I hasten to point out that various aspects of the ancient pronounciation are subject to debate.)


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## Aoyama

> As Flaminus' answer implies, the pronounciation of Latin has changed over time and in various places. (I hasten to point out that various aspects of the ancient pronounciation are subject to debate.)


That is very true and would become an endless debate that would go beyond the scope of this thread.
But still, even if one may point the differences in the pronounciation of Latin in various countries (all influenced by the pronounciation of the native language itself), *magna* does not seem to be pronounced like mañana in Spanish.


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## yvandas

In french Canada, we would pronounc magna not as mag-na but as ma-gna as in *ma* maison and ma*gna*nime.  Hope this helps.


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## Flaminius

Aoyama said:
			
		

> *[M]agna* does not seem to be pronounced like mañana in Spanish.


Even if it may not be the standard practise in France or in Italy, «gn» pronounced as /ɲ/ (palatal nasal; Spanish «ñ» or French «gne») is (or used to be) something more than just a personal preference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_pronunciation#Italianate_pronunciation

Assuming locals as per the original poster means Filipinos, it is not very surprising that they pronounce «gn» like the Spanish «ñ» in a country where Catholic influence is very strong.


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## la italianilla

Hi everybody 
I've been studying Latin for 8 years. My teachers always said that GN in Classical Latin was pronounced as a simple g + n, but in Ecclesiastical Latin, it is pronounced like the ny in canyon or the sound, for example, in onion.



Flaminius said:


> ...(CUT)...Assuming locals as per the original poster means Filipinos, it is not very surprising that they pronounce «gn» like the Spanish «ñ» in a country where Catholic influence is very strong.



Totally agree. Bye


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## modus.irrealis

la italianilla said:


> I've been studying Latin for 8 years. My teachers always said that GN in Classical Latin was pronounced as a simple g + n, but in Ecclesiastical Latin, it is pronounced like the ny in canyon or the sound, for example, in onion.


Hmm... I know it depends on the source, but most of the sources I've seen reconstruct the Classical pronunciation as [ŋn], like _ngn_ of English _hangnail_, like Cagey's link above, although if I remember right there's some conflicting evidence.



Cagey said:


> This website has an audio of the pronounciation of *magna* according to the American convention.  (It may take a while to load.)


By American convention, do you mean the American academic pronunciation of Latin? Latin words/phrases as part of English (like _Magna Carta _or scientific names) will have [gn] with a hard [g] sound.

That makes me wonder, and I don't want to get too off-topic but do the Romance languages (or others) have a different academic pronunciation than the one used in the everyday language -- for example, do French Latin scholars say [ɲ] or [ŋn]?


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## Cagey

modus.irrealis said:


> Hmm... I know it depends on the source, but most of the sources I've seen reconstruct the Classical pronunciation as [?n], like _ngn_ of English _hangnail_, like Cagey's link above, although if I remember right there's some conflicting evidence.
> 
> 
> By American convention, do you mean the American academic pronunciation of Latin? Latin words/phrases as part of English (like _Magna Carta _or scientific names) will have [gn] with a hard [g] sound.



Yes, I meant the American _academic_ tradition.  I agree with your description of our pronounciation of Latin words that have become part of English.


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## mateo19

I totally agree with la italianilla.
The most probable Classical pronunciation is [mag.na], so no palatal sounds.
In Ecclesiastical Latin though, the pronunciation has been strongly influenced by Italian in which the gn combination yields a [ɲ]. So, how it is pronounced depends of where you are hearing this Latin, what the native language of the speaker is and what variety of Latin he learned. (There are probably other factors as well.)


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## Aoyama

But, naively, checking in a Spanish dictionary, you will see that *magna* is pronounced mag-na, not maña ...


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