# The Marketing of [Name Your Deity Here]



## GenJen54

I was reading my local newspaper this weekend and noted an article about a national convention for religious retailers. Thanks to good ole’ American consumerism, yes, even God and religion (in this case, protestant Christianity) are marketable products.

I say this because last year, according to the article, the religious marketing industry earned a total of *$4.3 billion* through the sale of fiction and non-fiction books (including bibles), music, DVDs (instructional and entertainment), knick-knacks and household items, t-shirts and other wearables, bumper stickers, etc.

Here are a few questions I have related to the issue: 

I’m curious if this “marketing” of religion is predominately an American, and even Christian, phenomenon, or does the same occur in your country? If so, is it only Christianity, do other religions participate in this seemingly profitable venture?

Are there religious retailers in your countries? Or, are religious books and other goods also sold in large “big box” retailers? (By "big box" I mean Wal-Mart type stores.)

What do you feel about this phenomenon in general? Should [name your deity here] or religion be “marketed” or is this antithetic to most religions’ general teachings?


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## fenixpollo

Not being outside the US nor religious, I can't answer your questions, Jen, but I wanted to add clarification to one of your points:





			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Are there religious retailers in your countries? Or, are religious books and other goods also sold in large “big box” retailers? (By "big box" I mean Wal-Mart type stores.)


 In my city of 2+ million people in the western US, each sector of the metropolitan area has several stores that sell Christian products. This means that there is one such store every 5-10 square miles. These are privately-owned stores with no direct link to any church (I suppose that would be anathema) I have never seen a store that was devoted to selling consumer products of other religions and I can't imagine an "Islamic store" or a "Buhddist store". I have not noticed if Wal-Mart or other high-volume retail chain stores sell religious products.

Like you, I'm curious to learn about religious marketing in other countries.


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## ireney

Hmmm I don't know if I should answer 'yes' or 'no'. I'll let you be the judge.

Huge profit is made by 'things' related to religion. However we've taken a different road.

Books for instance are to be found mainly in bookstores. Religious icons (we're big on icons) can be found pretty much everywhere (up to and including temporary and moving open markets/bazaars).

DVDs are out of the question and the CD market (minus of course  "understandable" ones such as i.e. a CD of Byzantine hymns) is free of religious things. Bumper stickers are not a big thing in Greece anyway so none of those either. T-shirts of the "Jesus is my savour" kind are considered gross commercialisation and are not to be even considered. Household items in general are a no-no too.

So, after having practically said 'no' how could I possibly mean 'yes'?

Well we have 
a) Markets in which you can by pretty much anything, as a tourist memento so to speak (failure of my English vocabulary there) in churches that are considered worth visiting with the name of the church quite often inscribed somewhere there. We are usually talking about the usual 'paint the name here' items.
b) In the name day of the saint the church is dedicated to, markets of the same ilk also make their appearance
c) The concept of "tama", 'offering', is a big thing around here. You ask God (usually using a saint or Mary mother of Jesus as a "proxy") for something, promising something valuable (or sometimes -much less often- to perform an arduous yet meaningless task) in return. These items don't stay at the church for long. They are usually smelted (or just melted, depends) after a point.
d) Collections for whatever reason (not the ones with humanistic purpose although, even officially, part of the money from these also go to the church)

All in all, I'd say that the Americans have a unique kind of marketing religion but are not unique in marketing it (at least when it comes to Christianity)


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## gotitadeleche

I don't know about stores, but Jewish people in America can buy books (fiction and nonfiction), music, Bibles, and other products through catalogues.


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## maxiogee

We in Ireland have a small Catholic-Church run(?) chain of shops which specialise in religious books. They also do other (tasteful) religious products.
Most towns will also have at least one shop which does a roaring trade in First Communion and Confirmation "souvenirs" - tatty gee-gaws which uncles and aunts are semi-expected to give to the Communicant or Confirmand.
Clothing shops here do a huge business in clothes for these events as the little darlings (mainly the girls) get done up like brides in outlandishly expensive dresses and veils. They have hit a wee hurdle though as a law was recently passed forbidding the use of sunbeds by under 18s. These kids were being treated to a tan as part of the whole palaver which these Sacramental occasions have become.

I see no reason not to "market" any religion which exists by gaining converts — and would prefer it to the automatic membership which most religions bestow on the children of its believers - particularly the indoctrination at an age when they are too young to resist, question or give any sort of informed consent.

I would give much more respect to any religion which could state that it had X million totally voluntary members.


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## ireney

Just saw that I forgot to answer the second question. 

I don't agree with religion in general but I don't agree with the marketing division of religion(s) either. At least for Christianity there's the glaring example of how Jesus treated the people who sold and bought things at the temple before driving them away. Side-stepping the issue by not using the temple grounds is just hypocritical.  However, a more general reason is that religion is supposed to be a spiritual thing different from commerce.

I wouldn't mind all that much if denominations and/or religions which are not well-off in a region/country tried to raise money this way, although these religions/denominations are bound to have some rich 'stronghold' and religious institutions are not supposed to amass wealth but to distribute it (if not among the needy laymen then surely, at least, among their brothers in cloth so to speak).

And a side-comment rather off-topic. I would agree with maxiogee's last statement if these people were really voluntary members (i.e. there was no social of family pressure and they really got to know about all the alternatives in an objective way)


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## la reine victoria

In England there are no shops (as far as I am aware) devoted to the sale of "religious" goods. It has to be remembered that church attendance (non Catholic) is falling rapidly, year upon year.

I have seen some small shops, attached to churches, which sell things like bookmarks, greetings cards of a spiritual nature, car stickers, children's religious books, small laminated cards bearing words of wisdom, etc. All profit made goes straight into the church funds for maintenance.

Our famous cathedrals also have gift shops within them selling similar things to those listed above, together with souvenir mugs, pens, paperweights, postcards, books about the cathedral. Again, profits go toward the upkeep of the cathedral.

Some general bookshops sell Bibles, theological books, books on religious art, etc. The profit is kept by the bookshop.

So, generally speaking, marketing of religious items is not a big thing over here. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to buy a Bible in any of our large supermarkets, including Asda (which is owned and run by Wal-Mart). At Christmas I have seen things like "Bible Stories for Children" on sale - they are generally "reduced to clear" in the January Sales.  

Edit: Oops, I forgot to answer this -



> Should God or religion be “marketed” or is this antithetic to most religions’ general teachings?


 
I see no reason why not provided it's not on a "let's make a quick buck" basis.

But, if people are seeking religious guidance they can always visit a clergyman. They can borrow from a huge selection of books in our libraries.

Those who are already believers have no need of such reminders.

But, as I said in my opening paragraph, in England religion is on the decline. Believers are finding their own way of worshipping - they have fallen out with "the Church" for several reasons which it would be inappropriate to mention here. 



LRV


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## Fernando

About (specifically) Catholic Church in Spain, they have one medium-size radio network and a tiny TV local network.

They run small magazines and publishers. They publish and sell religious books.

There is a business on "estampas", clothe for priests/nuns/monks.

Obviously they "run" the churches, many schools and non-for-profit and charitable organizations (Manos Unidas, Cáritas).

All of this is tolerable to me. Church and money should be so far away as possible but I am not an hysterical of being completely separated from money. As a matter of fact, Cat. Church is very stupid when using media.

4.3 billion dollars? Maybe that would be equal to anti-religion marketing.


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## Benjy

i don't see anyproblem with people  making money off books and such. i have so many books which have brought me so  much that i wouldn't have if making any money off things religious was taboo. people have to eat.. even people who want to share their insights into religion X.


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## ukuca

I don't get the idea why it does surprise you. It doesn't surprise me at all. In this system, I mean the capitalism, everything can be merchandized as a meta. And where there's a huge mass of customers (in this case believers) consequently there will be some good profits. In Turkey there's a bunch of corporation which produce and sell almost everything including food, clothes, computer stuff, etc.. They call themselves Islamic. And there's a certain community which do their shopping only from these companies. That forms a distinct market. Neverthless it takes a small part of Turkish economy, it's remarkably big. In my opinion this does nothing about the religion, it's only about making money and profit by using the religion.


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## panjabigator

I am in many cases only a Sikh nominally...my involvement with the temple (Gurudwara Sahib) vacilates month to month. Even with that being said, I would be highly highly highly highly offended if I saw a store selling the Sikh Holy Book. The view point of Sikhs is that our Holy Book is to be revered as if it were a person, but even more so. One has to treat the Holy Book with so much respect. This means you cannot sit with your feat facing it, you cannot touch it with dirty hands, you cannot walk around with shoes (and some say even socks) on, and you must cover your head in its presence. That being said, it is highly unlikely that any Sikh organization (and some can be very fundamental and I interpret that as extremism) woul ever allow the Holy Books sale. There are some Sikh Websites however which sell Sikh sciptures, and they might be equiped to somehow ship the Holy Book to you, but even then, I feel that most Sikhs would opt to obtain the book directly because of any fears of Shipping. It is not just a piece of literature to Sikhs. 

There have been times that I have gone to stores owned by Sikhs. When I tried to purchase some religious art work or statues, they gave me them for free. Hope that answers your question


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## danielfranco

Ha! I know of a big national chain of stores called Christian Family Stores, that even have their own VISA or MASTERCARD credit cards. They sell mostly books, but they also have knick-knacks and stuff that is not even religious.
I don't really see any problem with it, because it's not the "religion establishment" per se who are marketing all these things, but instead is a straight forward, honest to goodness, capitalist venture. 
I mean to say, I don't think any church or religious group alone is involved in these marketing schemes. At least I haven't seen any "Southern Baptist Convention" credit cards, or any Vatican check accounts yet...
It's just folks who cater (pander?) to a specific need in society. Capitalism, you know?
Pretty much like the market outside the Temple of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus... The priesthood did not run those bird-stalls or money-changer rackets, and even now I don't think anyone can prove that the priesthood received a "cut" of the action beyond the temple fees or taxes or whatever they were called back then.
That's what I think.
I think...


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## cuchuflete

Markets require both sellers and, more importantly, buyers.
Buyers, for all sorts of silly and valid reasons, decide what to
acquire.  Some perceive a benefit in ownership of hand tools or yarn, other feel a need for acquisition of sex toys, and still others, who may include members of the groups already mentioned, take pleasure in purchasing items with some direct or indirect religious aspect. 

From a distance, I look at such behavior with only mild bemusement.  Does it have anything at all to do with spirituality?  Does the person buying a huge "holy" book with
a fancy plastic binding and gold leaf stamping and place marker ribbons in five colors get closer to understanding the will of a deity, than the fellow or lady who has a small, modest edition of the same text?  Really, how different is this from the purchase decision to get an extra-extra-large soda instead of a normal dose of the same stuff?  The buyer decides what constitutes value, and the sellers are available to facilitate for a fee.


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## Fernando

You know, Cuchu, there is the strangest people out there. There are weirdos that buy hardcover books. I never do it, since they have the same content that paperback.

There are people who buy a Gucci bag in a Gucci shop when they could buy the same Gucci bag, with the same use, in the street for ten times less money.

Of course there is much superstition but, well, I know many people in Spain who have a deluxe Quixote edition (I was gifted one). I do not know why they should not have a book of the same quality, who summarizes some of their dearest beliefs.


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## la reine victoria

> Brioche
> ...unlike the UK, where the Tony Blair appoints the bishops of the Church of England.


 

A point of correction here, Brioche (for the record).  Bishops of the Church of England are appointed by the Church Synod.  A candidate is nominated to, and then elected by, (using a voting system) the House of Bishops, then approved by H.M. The Queen, who is Head of the Church of England.

Senior Bishops sit in the House of Lords - they are known as the Lords Spiritual.

Tony Blair doesn't market anything religious but he will sell you a peerage for a couple of million pounds.  

Mods - please feel free to delete this, although I think it falls under the headings of "clarification" and "additional information".





LRV


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## Brioche

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> A point of correction here, Brioche (for the record). Bishops of the Church of England are appointed by the Church Synod. A candidate is nominated to, and then elected by, (using a voting system) the House of Bishops, then approved by H.M. The Queen, who is Head of the Church of England.
> 
> LRV


 
Not quite.
The Crown Nominations Commission, most of whose members are elected by the Generaly Synod, sends two names to the Prime Minister.  He chooses one of them, or in rare cases, he asks for an additional name. The PM then "advises" the Queen whom he has chosen, and she formally nominates the PM's choice.


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## Philippa

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I have seen some small shops, attached to churches, which sell things like bookmarks, greetings cards of a spiritual nature, car stickers, children's religious books, small laminated cards bearing words of wisdom, etc. All profit made goes straight into the church funds for maintenance.


Hello, Your Maj.
Just to add that most big towns will have a Christian bookshop (I can think of 2 in Reading) and I agree they are usually attached to churches. The vast majority of stuff in the Christain bookshops I've browsed in (and I love all kinds of bookshop!!) is sort of Christian advice and story books. I agree that they sell the things you say too, but there'll be lots of books like Christian biographies, books retelling or explaining bits of the Bible and books that suggest how to live the Christian life. There are also often quite a few music CDs. I don't think my church's bookshop would make much of a profit and I think it is treated pretty separately in the accounts. The biggest cost for many churches is paying for the vicar and other staff (I guess you may mean to include that in 'maintenance') and it is funded by the congregation giving money (thankfully not directly out of our pay like in Germany!!)
As for Gen's question, I don't see it as marketing God, but as providing resources for Christians to know more about their faith and to enjoy it (music, light reading). I think I'm right in saying that many of the book and music publishers here do a mixture of religious and non-religious stuff and so it doesn't feel like they're trying to make huge profits out of religion.


			
				maxi said:
			
		

> I see no reason not to "market" any religion which exists by gaining converts — and would prefer it to the automatic membership which most religions bestow on the children of its believers - particularly the indoctrination at an age when they are too young to resist, question or give any sort of informed consent.


I like your comment! But I'm not sure that Christian bookshops really do much marketing and persuading people outside the church!
Saluditos
Philippa


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## maxiogee

Philippa said:
			
		

> But I'm not sure that Christian bookshops really do much marketing and persuading people outside the church!
> Saluditos
> Philippa



That, Phillipa, is because they lack only the funds


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## Ana Raquel

Two things come to my mind related to this,

the shop inside the Saint Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, where a lot f things are sold, and another much bigger, the annual pilgrimare to Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the pilgrimare is a big money enterprise issue.


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## southerngal

Fernando said:
			
		

> You know, Cuchu, there is the strangest people out there. There are weirdos that buy hardcover books. I never do it, since they have the same content that paperback.


 
I'm a _weirdo_ because I buy hardcover books, especially those like dictionaries, reference books, and others.  Hardcover books often are better made and last longer than paperbacks.

Should we all be forced to buy the same things?  That's the wonderful aspect to a free market!

Back to the original question, Gen's message strongly suggests that she opposes the idea of printing religious texts for people to purchase if they so desire.  I think this concept is very different from marketing the religion itself (which, of course occurs as well).

Buying a Bible is different from buying _Pope on a rope_ soap or something like that.


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## GenJen54

southerngal said:
			
		

> Back to the original question, Gen's message strongly suggests that she opposes the idea of printing religious texts for people to purchase if they so desire.


 
Wha??? Why would I object to anyone having access to or reading a religious text? I have several "spiritual" texts in my own home. If that is what was implied, it was certainly not intended.

I do not object to the idea of printing or publishing religious texts (wearing one's "God" on one's sleeve is another matter entirely), but I do find this rampant sense of profiteering more or less antithetic to Christian teachings as I understand them.  

I was really more or less curious if this phenomenon was common among other religions or if it is a by-product of good ole' 'Merkin capitalism.


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## la reine victoria

Ana Raquel said:
			
		

> Two things come to my mind related to this,
> 
> the shop inside the Saint Peter's Basilica where a lot f things are sold, and another much bigger, the annual pilgrimare to Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the pilgrimare is a big money enterprise issue.


 


I reckon Lourdes must take some beating as the most commercialised place of pilgrimage in the world.

I haven't been myself (a deliberate choice when I was in the vicinity) since I'd heard mixed reports about it.  The chief criticism was of the numerous souvenir shops selling very tacky "rubbish".

Lourdes receives about 5 million pilgrims each year.  If they all buy a souvenir there's an awful lot of money changing hands.

No offence to Roman Catholic forer@s who have been to Lourdes and found spiritual blessings there.



LRV


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## maxiogee

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I reckon Lourdes must take some beating as the most commercialised place of pilgrimage in the world.



Spot on!
Lourdes — I was there in 1965 — was tacky with a capital T. The amount of cheap plastic gee-gaws was bewildering. I saw shops with similar tat in the purlieu of the Vatican when I was in Rome.
Our native Marian shrine here in Ireland - an out-of-the-way place called Knock in County Mayo also has its share of hucksters who cater bountifully to the aesthetically-challenged.


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## cherine

Very interesting thread Gen  Although I'd prefer if the title would be "marketing of religion" instead of "marketing of deity", because it's more the religion itself that's marketed, the religious "feelings" of some people that are "tackled".

It's been a while that I was thinking of this issue myself, it makes me a bit angry to see that some people "merchants (?)" benefiting from some other people religious feelings to make profits.

I'll speak of my country (Egypt), where we have two religions : Islam and Christianity. There's no much difference between the two in what concerns this issue :


			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> I say this because last year, according to the article, the religious marketing industry earned a total of *$4.3 billion* through the sale of fiction and non-fiction books (including bibles), music, DVDs (instructional and entertainment), knick-knacks and household items, t-shirts and other wearables, bumper stickers, etc.


I don't know how much this trade makes in Egypt, but I'm sure it's a lot of money, reaaal big money. Egyptians are, by nature, religious people, whatever their religion may be. Even those who are not really religious, are a bit influenced by this "culture". So they give a big opportunity to those who want to make some profit.




> I’m curious if this “marketing” of religion is predominately an American, and even Christian, phenomenon, or does the same occur in your country? If so, is it only Christianity, do other religions participate in this seemingly profitable venture?


I hope my previous paragraphs answered this. Marketing religion is not only American, nor only Christian.




> Are there religious retailers in your countries? Or, are religious books and other goods also sold in large “big box” retailers? (By "big box" I mean Wal-Mart type stores.)


Yes. In both religions. (I don't know about Jewish, because the Jews in Egypt are very small minority, so maybe they just trade their stuff in their synagogues).
Religious stuff are : books, cassettes (yes, we still use those  ), CDs, I think DVDs also, all those contain: holy texts, studies and interpretations of the holy texts, lessons or sermons on how to be a good Muslim/Christian, biographies of good Muslims/Christians. There are also those stickers you put on your car or in your room or wherever you want, "religious" or religion-related calendars. For Christians, there are the crucifixes and icons in different forms and materials.
There are publishing houses for both religions, that produce all those different materials. There are Christian and Muslim bookshops. As for the "big box" retailers, I don't remember seeing Christian stuff in their (but this doesn't mean they don't have them), but they sell Muslim ones (books, CDs and DVDs (if any) ).

Oh, and there's gold. Yes, gold  Egyptians -specially women- like to wear gold, so why not wear something that's religious ? crucifixes, icons, name of Jesus in a beautiful calligraphy... for Christians; the word Allah, or Muhammad in beautiful calligraphy for Muslims, along with representations of the ka'ba (in Mecca), short verses....
Of course these are sold in silver also.

Furthermore, there's another thing, I don't know if it exists in other countries. I don't know what its name in English may be, but here what it is:
People go to visit a saint's shrine (there isn't really sainthood in Islam, but some people tend to consider some people as such, so I'll just use this word) and they sort of ask this saint to do them a favor (heal a sick person, give a child to a sterile woman, give a husband to an unmarried girl....) and they promise to do things in return, mainly pay a sum of money, or feed the poor....
(Note: in Islam this is supposed to be sinful, because we're not supposed to ask anyone by God, but people sometimes... forget)
You simply can't imagine the amount of money spent in these things (in both religions) MILIONS  . Each Year. I don't know who profits from this money, but the simple idea that people are willing to spend those huge sums, instead of directly helping the poor, just makes me mad  .




> What do you feel about this phenomenon in general? Should [name your deity here] or religion be “marketed” or is this antithetic to most religions’ general teachings?


I don't like seeing religion becoming a business. But this is the (sad) reality of things. It's like any other feelings that give way to business (enough example, what we see on Valentine day  it's as if people only feel love on that day).

Last note : I don't say I don't buy some of the sold stuff, but my "shopping" is very limited : a recitation of the Qur'an (I love to hear it read by some of those reciters who have beautiful voices), a French translation of the Qur'an, an "index" of the words mentioned in the Text. 
But I won't go buying stickers, posters, calenders.... OH NO ! NEVER.


WHAT A LONG POST ! (Sorry guys)


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