# Usted / tú (in Spain)



## Masood

Hello:
This may have been asked before, so my apologies in advance if it has.

On my travels to Spain, I have used Usted with strangers older than myself and 'tú' with those of my own age or younger...this may have been a cultural _faux pas_, but I think they were forgiving to a foreigner like myself. 

A couple of question:
1. When should 'Usted' become 'tú'?...and who makes the request? Always the older person? (admittedly, I have on occasion asked an older person '¿Le puedo tutear?')

2. Is 'usted' losing popularity in spoken Castillian Spanish? 

Contestad en inglés o español, como queráis. Gracias.

Masood.


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## Rayines

Hallo Masood: everything you say is true . In Argentina, in the latest years in most of situations we use to say "vos" (tú). Only towards people older than -say- sixty? in the street, towards bosses until you become more confident, towards some doctors or other professionals, we say "usted". Sometimes we not so young people are glad when younger people say "vos" (tu) to us. (They don't do that with professors at school).
Then, in general terms, I'd say that "usted" is loosing some popularity, without implying that a lack of respect.
Wait for opinions from other countries, and sorry my poor English to explain this.


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## Masood

Rayines said:
			
		

> Hallo Masood: everything you say is true . In Argentina, in the latest years in most of situations we use to say "vos" (tú). Only towards people older than -say- sixty? in the street, towards bosses until you become more confident, towards some doctors or other professionals, we say "usted". Sometimes we not so young people are glad when younger people say "vos" (tu) to us. (They don't do that with professors at school).
> Then, in general terms, I'd say that "usted" is loosing some popularity, without implying that a lack of respect.
> Wait for opinions from other countries, and sorry my poor English to explain this.


I understood you perfectly. Thank you for your reply.


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## zspider

I just got back from Cancun and, possibly because of our tourist status, nobody used the formal you.  No one.  My feeling was that the lack of the formal was not rudeness but friendliness and a desire to make us feel welcome, rather than the distancing formality.  

Just my impression.  I did not do an exhaustive study on it.

Michael


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## DavidFP

Yo tengo mas de 60 años y en mis viajes a México, Costa Rica y Peru no he oido "usted" casi nunca.  Sin embargo siento respetado.  ¿Pero, como no?  En Todos paises en inglés o español o otro - hay menos formalidad.  Espero que a ir a España y tal vez es lo mismo.

David


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## Txiri

When I lived in Spain in the '80s, the only occasions I ever used the Ud. form was in the market (to buy oranges etc) and in a bar (to get a cafe con leche etc).  People, strangers, would approach me on the street, and invariably use tú.  

In Spanish classes in the US, students from all over the Spanish speaking world, had entirely different variable habits.  I had the impression for a long time, that some countries in Spanish America had very formal conceptions of when to use tú v. Ud.  Some young people (used to) address their parents as Ud. 

I think times change, and cultural morés change, but in my work as an interpreter, I always address the client as Ud.


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## Philippa

zspider said:
			
		

> I just got back from Cancún and, possibly because of our tourist status, nobody used the formal you.  No one.  My feeling was that the lack of the formal was not rudeness but friendliness and a desire to make us feel welcome, rather than the distancing formality.
> Just my impression.  I did not do an exhaustive study on it.
> Michael


Hi!
When I was in Playa del Carmen in February, some people used tú and some usted to me. I had been advised (by ILT - thanks!! ) to use usted to waiters and people working in the hotel, but many used tú to me, like you say, to be friendly, I suppose.

I've just come back from Granada and I wanted to use tú to the abuela who I was staying with and I wanted to get that sorted out straightaway and not wonder and worry about it. I was racking my brains at the time about how to ask without using either verb form and I think I said '¿Se puede tutear?' and she said 'Sí', but because the Granada accent drops the s at the end of words, it felt like she wasn't calling me tú at all!! (in the end I remembered an imperative that she'd used to me in the tú form and I stopped worrying!!)  
I hope usted is disappearing!!
Philippa


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## Ana_Fi

The use Masood said at first is what I would use: 'usted' for those who are older than me, 'tú' for the rest. At least untill I know them enough. (But I would never call a relative 'usted'.)
The thing is you can hardly hear the word 'usted', because it is not required: ¿puede (usted) indicarme dónde está el hotel?
When speaking to somebody on the street, in a bus, in the subway, even in the elevator of my own house I would always use 'usted' unless I'm talking to a child: ¿me puede decir la hora? ¿me permite pasar? Disculpe, ¿sabe dónde está la calle X? Perdone. No se preocupe. (Note I haven't used the word 'usted').
Of course, the use changes depending on where you live. For example, people from the Canary Islands always say 'ustedes' instead of 'vosotros'.
There are more posts about it, check them to see the differences between different Spanish-speaking countries.


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## Masood

Ana_Fi said:
			
		

> The use Masood said at first is what I would use: 'usted' for those who are older than me, 'tú' for the rest. At least untill I know them enough. (But I would never call a relative 'usted'.)
> The thing is you can hardly hear the word 'usted', because it is not required: ¿puede (usted) indicarme dónde está el hotel?
> When speaking to somebody on the street, in a bus, in the subway, even in the elevator of my own house I would always use 'usted' unless I'm talking to a child: ¿me puede decir la hora? ¿me permite pasar? Disculpe, ¿sabe dónde está la calle X? Perdone. No se preocupe. (Note I haven't used the word 'usted').
> Of course, the use changes depending on where you live. For example, people from the Canary Islands always say 'ustedes' instead of 'vosotros'.
> There are more posts about it, check them to see the differences between different Spanish-speaking countries.


Cultural insight from a native is invaluable. Muchas gracias por tu contestación. Dominas muy bien en inglés, por cierto.


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## jester.

Hace más o menos una semana viví una situación un poco rara en la fiesta del cumpleaños de mi tío. Por supuesto, en alemán, donde existe también la diferencia entre Sie (usted) y Du (tú). Sé que esto no tiene nada que ver con la lengua castellana, pero quizá os interese sin embargo.

Como he dicho, estaba en la fiesta del cumpleaños de mi tío y mis padres estaban charlando con un hombre (de aproximadamente 40 años) y yo (17 años) quise participar en la conversación.

Lo raro era que mis padres lo tuteaban a ese hombre porque se conocían ya. En ese momento no estaba seguro de cómo llamarle a ese hombre (Sie o du) y elegí la forma Sie (usted) porque no lo conocía al hombre, pero la primera respuesta que me hizo era "Puedes tutearme."

Por eso pienso que no habría estado ofendido ese hombre si yo lo hubiera tuteado ya desde el principio, quizá porque ya se tuteaban él y mis padres.

Pero ya veis, a veces es dificil saber qué forma eligir, incluso para las personas que hacen la diferencia ya de siempre.


Otra adición a vuestra discusión: Aquí en Alemania no hay ninguna tendencia a una decadencia de las formas formales, y yo trato de usted a cada persona que es adulto, al menos que la conozca por supuesto.


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## Bettie

Yo siempre les hablo de usted a las personas mayores, desconocidas, ya si ellos me dicen que los tutee lo hago,  y de tú a los de mi edad.


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## MarX

Hi!
When I was in Spain I wanted to use "usted", but like nobody around me used it. So I tried to get used to "tú" everybody, even though it felt weird at first.

Saludos,


MarX


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## mdelling

I find this a fascinating topic and much more complex than the textbooks let on.  Here's my experience in Guatemala.

En Guatemala they use usted, tu and vos and usage varies from person to person.  My wife (age 37) calls her mother, aunts and uncles and authority figures like doctors and professors "usted"; her sister, friends and me "tu" and her cousins (male and female) "vos". 

I had a friend who uses "vos" with one brother and "usted" with the other.

"Vos" in Central America is very informal, like calling somebody "buddy" or "dude".  Vos is mainly between family members or friends of the same sex.

I have a buddy about my age who told me that among men of our generation (40's) in Guatemala usted was for old people, vos for men and tu for women and Mexicans (who don't use vos)

If two Guatemalan men of around the same age are overheard using tu with each the assumption is that they are gay. Straight men would be using vos or usted (if formality were required).  Of course they don't make that assumption about foreigners or Mexicans

Foreigners there are routinely addressed with "tu" right away and the people are not offended when foreigners use it with them.  

Many college-aged people use vos with members of the opposite sex who are good friends as well as boyfriends/girlfriends.  Older people often see this as vulgar.  I once dated briefly a girl who stopped using tu with me and started using vos as soon as our relationship started.  Years later I asked my wife why she didn't vos me like she does her cousins and she said it felt vulgar and disrespectful to treat her husband that way.  Go figure!


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## VivaReggaeton88

In Colombia, usted is used with younger generation and tú is used with family and people not known. My friends always talk to each other using usted and I think it's kind of funny, but they say that Colombian Spanish is the purest and most accent-free dialect in the world.

In Central America, like said before, if two men are talking to each other using tú, it is presumed that they're gay.

In the Caribbean, you will almost never hear usted. I have never heard a Dominican or Puerto Rican use usted.

The differences in the language from country to country are quite interesting and they are what makes each country unique.


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## Gelectrode

In Spain, the popularity of "usted" is decreasing over the time. However, it is used here in formal contexts (like, for example, legal context) and, although not compulsory, it is common to address an adult you haven't met before with such word, but they will often tell you to switch to "tú". It is nice though, because the people would think you are an educated person, so it has an extralinguisitic message


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## Milton Sand

Hi!
In Colombia, we usually don't use "usted" with foreigners (I'd dare to say we never do) perhaps trying to make them feel welcome or in familiar terms.

But we do use it a lot among us in our daily dialogues, specially when meaning respect, seriousness or annoyance.

In my city (and some other colombian cities), "tú" is almost exclusive to mean tenderness and love, or simply affection, or flirting kindness. A girlfriend may practically demand to be _tuteada_. But beware of using "tú" to a female friend in front of your girlfriend! Except if you belong to the high posh society; they always use "tú".

A little boy will always be _tuteado_, specially if he's not of your family or friends. But when those feelings are well known, we go back to the usage of "usted" (among brothers, for instance).

I always use "tú" to adress my beloved cousins, and I always will. I also use it to my girlfriend, my mom and often my sister, even my father; but never to my male friends!

That's all that came to my mind, by now.

Bye


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## MarX

Milton Sand said:


> I always use "tú" to adress my beloved cousins, and I always will. I also use it to my girlfriend, my mom and often my sister, even my father; but never to my male friends!


So how do you address them, then? With *vos*?

In several Central American countries apparently guys never _tú_ each other. Instead, they use *vos*.


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## Milton Sand

MarX said:


> So how do you address them, then? With *vos*?


I missed to be clearer. I use "usted" when adressing to my male friends. I only use "vos" in imitations of western colombian people (paisas, vallunos) and Argentinians (and similars), or in arcaic formal speech (for fun).
However, some people from Bucaramanga opt for "vos" when trying to be middle way between formal and informal, for instance, when being respectfully informal talking to people they just met.


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## mdelling

the differences in the use of vos is really interesting.  Amazing to think it comes to us funchanged from the latin second person plural and then came to be a very formal address for the emperor and other nobles!


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## YourBoyV

Hola, Que Tal?

Um in spain 'tu' is usually used between friends or people of the same age whereas usted is usually (but doesnt have to be) used with people you don't know or when trying to show respect to someone (i.e. someone older than you). And even so it does seem to be becoming less popular (at least in Madrid) and the use of the word is not really 'expected'

However it depends on the country & region, for exmaple, My best friend is colombian (from Cali) and she will call anybody, her mum, her brother, me, people she doesnt know Usted, even when being very informal she'll say things like 'A usted le amo', which im used to by now but was a bit weird at first since it made me feel strange hehe and as though she was degrading herself, lol, so my point is that it might be kinda awkward sometimes but:

There isnt so much a universal rule, u just have to pray u get it right!


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## Ynez

YourBoyV said:


> There isnt so much a universal rule, u just have to pray u get it right!



I agree: no universal rule.

I, for instance, hardly ever use "usted". I don't like to be addressed as "usted" either, because it only makes me feel old  But in shops they call you "usted"  the moment you become 25 or 30 years old (I'm 40 now, been called "usted" for long).

But one day a very young doctor was offended because I wasn't speaking to him as "usted" (he used "usted" with me but I wasn't just even paying attention to that, it's simply not important for me and I was ill...).

That experience is not normal at all, but it shows the use of "usted" depends many times on personal views, mental preconceptions, etc.


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## eyowell

In Chile "Usted" (a derivation from the ancient Spanish "Su Merced") is frecuently used.  Among closed friends and contacts we use "Tú".  I like to hear that advocative in informal situations, but it makes me angry when a seller of an bank executive uses it with me.  It seems they try to convince me that they are my friends when of course they are not.
In the other hand "Usted" is frecuently used among very close people (spouses, couples specially) to denote their love.  For example I say "¿Cómo amaneció Usted?" to my wife when we are in good mood.  I wouldn't use it if we were angry.  In that situation we use the word "tú".

Correct my English, please.


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## MarX

eyowell said:


> In Chile "Usted" (a derivation from the ancient Spanish "Vuestra Merced") is frequently used.  Among closed friends and contacts we use "Tú".  I like to hear that advocative(?) in informal situations, but it makes me angry when a seller of (you mean "or"?) an bank executive uses it with me.  It seems (that) they're trying to convince me that they are my friends when of course they are not.
> In the other hand "Usted" is frequently used among very close people (spouses, couples specially) to denote their love.  For example I say "¿Cómo amaneció Usted?" to my wife when we are in good mood.  I wouldn't use it if/when we were angry.  In that situation we'd use the word "tú".
> 
> Correct my English, please.


What do you mean with "advocative"?


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## eyowell

MarX said:


> What do you mean with "advocative"?


 
You're right, I'm schizophrenic and I invent words.  I tried to say something like appellative, but it isn't exactly the word I'd like to use.  Thanks for the corrections.


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## gangstapolitica

Ana_Fi said:


> The thing is you can hardly hear the word 'usted', because it is not required: ¿puede (usted) indicarme dónde está el hotel?
> When speaking to somebody on the street, in a bus, in the subway, even in the elevator of my own house I would always use 'usted' unless I'm talking to a child: ¿me puede decir la hora? ¿me permite pasar? Disculpe, ¿sabe dónde está la calle X? Perdone. No se preocupe. (Note I haven't used the word 'usted').



hey

the reason for not using the word usted is because when you are making an exclamacion (¡!) or asking a question (¿?) it is usually not necessary to use the word usted

example:

¿ puede decirme la hora? - question - the word "usted" is not necessary here
¡Dígame la hora!, ¡por favor! - again the word "usted" is not necessary here because the sentence is an exclamation

but you need the word usted when you are making a statement, like:

usted no tiene razón 

you can't say "no tiene razón" because then it will be, literally "it isn't right"

so you need to use "usted" when making a statement, but not when asking a question or making an exclamation


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## eba

En esta España profunda con una densidad demógrafica insignificante y pueblos que van muriendo poco a poco por la despoblación, todavía es común tratar de usted a las personas mayores de la propia familia como marca de respeto, incluso los hijos a sus padres.
Mi padre y mis tías jamás han llamado a mi abuela mamá sino madre, y siempre la han tratado de usted (y yo lo mismo claro, aunque a veces se me escapa el tú). Lo menciono porque mi familia no es un caso aislado, pero es, desde luego, una costumbre en vías de extinción, de gentes nacidas hace casi 100 años.


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## Ana_Fi

gangstapolitica said:


> but you need the word usted when you are making a statement, like:
> usted no tiene razón
> 
> you can't say "no tiene razón" because then it will be, literally "it isn't right"
> so you need to use "usted" when making a statement, but not when asking a question or making an exclamation



I don't think it's necessarily like that, you may omit it without being ambiguous.

- Es obligatorio circular por la izquierda si el carril está vacío.
- Discuple, no tiene razón/está equivocado/me temo que se equivoca. En España es obligatorio circular por la derecha.


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## ACQM

Masood said:


> Hello:
> This may have been asked before, so my apologies in advance if it has.
> 
> On my travels to Spain, I have used Usted with strangers older than myself and 'tú' with those of my own age or younger...this may have been a cultural _faux pas_, but I think they were forgiving to a foreigner like myself.
> 
> A couple of question:
> 1. When should 'Usted' become 'tú'?...and who makes the request? Always the older person? (admittedly, I have on occasion asked an older person '¿Le puedo tutear?')
> 
> 2. Is 'usted' losing popularity in spoken Castillian Spanish?
> 
> Contestad en inglés o español, como queráis. Gracias.
> 
> Masood.



0) You did right, using usted with older people is very polite, young people and children don't mind tutear all the time.
1) Usted becomes "tú" when the older person (or the boss in a company or the client in a shop or a bar) stats to "tutear" if the other person uses "tú" with you you can use the same treatment back.
2) Yes, usted is losing popularity and lots of young people just never use it no matter what. Just for instance, I work in a driving school and we prepare lots of eighteen-year-old guys to past their theory driving tests, those tests are written in a very polite even pseudolegal Spanish, from time to time, some student comes to me and ask "¿qué significa ud?", they have never seen "Ud." written down!


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## Mexico RV'er

It is interesting that several on here have posted they never hear the Ud. form in Mexico. I suppose it all depends on where you are. Perhaps in tourist areas it is less common. I am in Sonora, and Ud. is commonly used. It is used with older people, with people providing a service: waiters, gas station attendants, store clerks, etc. 

On occasion I also hear it change back and forth during a conversation. A sentence may begin with Ud. and end with tú, or _vice versa_. I have a number of friends who are younger than I, but we run around together several times a week. Some use Ud. and some use tú.  I don't give it a second thought. Perhaps it's time I pin them down on this issue and find out why.


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