# carmen ad Venerem OR carmen Veneri [Dedication]



## Casquilho

Hello again.

Please, answer me this little doubt of mine: if I want to identify to whom an ode is dedicated, e. g. ode I. xxx. by Horace, would it be more correct and classic to use accusative (_carmen ad Venerem_) or dative (_carmen Veneri_)?


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## wandle

Horace Odes 1 xxx takes the form of a prayer by Glycera to Venus.

What is it that you want to say? Can you give an English phrase or sentence which could then be translated into Latin?


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## Casquilho

Examples from Horace:
Ode to Maecenas (I. i.)
Ode to Mercury (I. x.)
Ode to Faunus (III. xviii.)

The original Latin doesn't have a dedicatory or any kind of title, as far as I know. However, Pliny's epistles do contain the destinatary, in dative form. So I'd like to know, if Horace would put the dedicatory above his odes, would he choose probably the dative or accusative?


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## wandle

There is a standard form for the addressee of a letter, but that is different. 
In literary work, it is common to begin with an invocation of a god, a muse, or a human patron, but that is part of the poem or book, rather than a title. 
Dedications made as part of a subtitle or preface are a modern (post-medieval) practice. As far as I know, there is no ancient counterpart to that.


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## Casquilho

wandle said:


> Dedications made as part of a subtitle or preface are a modern (post-medieval) practice. As far as I know, there is no ancient counterpart to that.



That's too bad!


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## wandle

'Too bad, I give up' or 'Too bad, I want to go ahead anyway'?


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## Casquilho

wandle said:


> 'Too bad, I give up' or 'Too bad, I want to go ahead anyway'?



Well, now that you're asking, I'd like to go ahead. Even though there aren't models for a subtitle, there must be examples _in texto_ from Horace or Tibullus giving clues about what would be their choice, if it was a literary practice current in their times.


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