# Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı?



## Chalk Pot

Would you please offer _a word-to-word analytical translation_ of the following song verse:
_
- Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı?
_
(quote from song _Aşkkolik_  by *Hadise*)

In particular: 

*- özü sözü bir = *"_straight as a die_", "_sincere, honest_": OK

But, what is the Grammar? 

Why the two words *özü* and *sözü* are not in _*Nominative*_?


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## Rallino

_Aşkın özü _is a noun complement: _the essence of love_

Özü has received a possessive suffix, but otherwise the entire thing is in nominative. Compare:
_Aşkın özü _-nom.
_Aşkın özünü _-acc.
_Aşkın özüne _-dat
_Aşkın özünde _-loc
etc.


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## Gemmenita

"öz" means "kendi" which is used in azeri Turkish but instead in Istanbul turkish it's said "kendi". However "öz" is sometimes seen in Turkish : Öz anne (not üvey, one's kendi mother, real mother, own mother)
So "özü sözü bir" means the one whose sayings are the same as his personnality = sözü ve kendisi bir = honnest

Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı? = Shouldn't we be honnest in love? (Love isn't an honnest act?)


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## Chalk Pot

Chaton.marchande said:


> So "özü sözü bir" means the one whose sayings are the same as his personnality = sözü ve kendisi bir = honnest
> 
> Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı? = Shouldn't we be honnest in love? (Love isn't an honnest act?)



_Isn't love the one and the same in words and acts?

_That's in facts how this lyrics is translated, if you search for. So *Chaton.marchande*, you do not agree with *Rallino*?

That is: isn't *özü* the same word (inflected, of course) as *öz* ? (_olmaz mı?_)

So what would be like your grammatical analysis - word by word, case by case - by your point of view - if you don't mind? 

I still cannot understand it, *Rallino* put the matter as if there could be a "_Declension of the Inflected word_" ... say it honestly, I'll give up with studying Turkish!


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## Rallino

Öz normally mens _essence_, _original_. However, ö_zü sözü bir_ is an expression that Chaton.marchande translated correctly. So, as far as the meaning is concerned, she is right. 
I rather focused on the grammatical construction, since that was your question.

Yes, you can decline an already inflected word. Actually, there is no limit as to how much you can inflect a word.
Here are some examples:

_Ev _(house) - _Çatı _(roof)

Evin [GENITIVE] çatısı [POSSESSED] → The roof of the house. 
Evin [GENITIVE] çatısında [POSSESSED + LOCATIVE] → On the roof of the house.
Evin [GENITIVE] çatısındaki [POSSESSED + LOCATIVE + RELATIVE] → Which is on the roof of the house.
Evin [GENITIVE] çatısındakiler [POSSESSED + LOCATIVE + RELATIVE + PLURAL] → Those that are on the roof of the house.
Evin [GENITIVE] çatısındakilerden [POSSESSED + LOCATIVE + RELATIVE + PLURAL + ABLATIVE] → From those that are on the roof of the house.

and so on.


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## Chalk Pot

ö_zü sözü bir_ is an expression

Thank you *Rallino* , the point is right this one: it is '_an expression_': it looks - that's my problem - as if there existed not a possible LITERAL translation, something '_customary_' to be taken "_as it is_", without a comparison: it is very difficoult for me to be got;  

- Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı?

Aşkın = [GENITIVE] -- *of love *
özü = [POSSESSIVE of öz] -- *its essence *(???)
sözü = [POSSESSIVE of söz] -- *its meaning*  (???)
bir = *one* 
olmaz mı? = is not? 

- Aşkın özü sözü bir olmaz mı? = _*Of love, its essential meaning is not?*_ ???

I knew in Turkish, adjectives do not inflect with the related name, so when I see something like *özü sözü *I get confused


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## spiraxo

Since you translated _özü sözü_ part as _its essential meaning_, I am under the impression that additional explanation is needed. In this idiom, there are two different things: the self of a person and the word (or promise) of a person. Think that there is a comma (or _ve_, as chaton.marchande stated) between these words.

aşkın = of love
özü (kendisi) = its own self
sözü = its word, its saying 
bir*= same, similar 
olmaz mı? = is/are not?
Literal Translation → Of love, its own self and its word are not the same?
There are other possibilities, but we are not discussing over the best translation.

The exact translation of _özü sözü bir_ is the 1st meaning of _coerente_ in WR Monolingual Italian Dictionary.

_* Bir_ has many meanings.
*bir* _ a._ 1. Sayıların ilki. 2. Bu sayıyı gösteren 1 ve I rakamlarının adı. 3. _sf._ Aynı, benzer: _Beni daim şen gören safdiller öyle sansın / Ne bilsinler ki onlar *bence birdir elem, haz* _4. _sf._ Beraber:_ Hep biriz, ayrılmayız.

_By chance, there is a similar example in the dictionary: "_... bence birdir elem, haz._" As you see, this time there is a comma between _elem_ and_ haz_.


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## Gemmenita

Chalk Pot said:


> _Isn't love the one and the same in words and acts?
> 
> _That's in facts how this lyrics is translated, if you search for. So *Chaton.marchande*, you do not agree with *Rallino*? Fortunately Rallino answered himself, so you can guess my answer.
> 
> That is: isn't *özü* the same word (inflected, of course) as *öz* ? (_olmaz mı?_)
> 
> So what would be like your grammatical analysis - word by word, case by case - by your point of view - if you don't mind?
> 
> I still cannot understand it, *Rallino* put the matter as if there could be a "_Declension of the Inflected word_" ... say it honestly, I'll give up with studying Turkish! NO, never, neden canım???? Sen çok iyi çalışıyorsun.



Hello everybody and *öz*ellikle Chalk Pot,

I am joining you right now:

First your translation is perfect!

Now analysis of "özü sözü bir":

"ü" in "özü" as well as in "sözü" is "iyelik eki" ( possessif suffixes) as we say evi , arabası,...
Therefore, for the same reason that we say arabası = his car, we say  "sözü" = his saying, "özü"= his being, himself ( öz =kendi)

these three words together which are considered as a _unique_ adjectif, are used in the way that I let you know with some examples:

(Benim) evleneceğim kişi*nin* özü sözü bir olmalı.

O çok iyi bir adam, her zaman özü sözü bir .

Murat'a güvenebilirsin, özü sözü bir.

Neden sadece onunla arkadaşsin? Çünkü (o*nun*) özü sözü bir.

Cennet'*in* özü sözü bir.

ve sonunda: Aşk*in* özü sözü bir olmalı.

And there is a famous azeri song where she (the singer) says:

Ben giderim o oğlana , onun pulu* çok olsun.
So we can change it and say: 
Ben giderim o oğlana, özü sözü bir olsun! 


* pul = para


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## Chalk Pot

OK, thank you all - now it looks more clear. But I have to admit that the problem with this expression is just its lacks the conjunction '_ve_' : 

- if it were - *özü ve sözü bir (olmak) *- it surely would have been easier to detect ...

Now, besides the meaning is enough clear, there could be another matter (if you like to dicuss about):

- when I say *'sözü'*, am I saying "_its (/her/his) word_" or also "_its saying_" (= the act of saying that word) ? 

Because, it is different: does 'Aşkın özü sözü bir' refers to 

- *1)* '_the word-love, to mean the act of loving_' 
- or instead *2)* '_the act of saying 'love', to mean the person who says it_' ?? 

In more a general speech, does özü sözü bir refers to THE THING it is said (*söz* = "_the word_") or to THE ONE WHO SPEAKS (*söz* = "_the saying, the speaking_") ?

So, what is _honnest_, _coherent_ (by the grammatical point of view): 

- 'love' (_is coherent with its own word_) 
- or 'the boyfriend' (_is coherent with what he speaks about_) ?


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## Gemmenita

Chalk Pot said:


> OK, thank you all - now it looks more clear. But I have to admit that the problem with this expression is just its lacks the conjunction '_ve_' :
> 
> - if it were - *özü ve sözü bir (olmak) *- it surely would have been easier to detect ... I agree with you, but usually in expressions many things are omitted and that's the way it is!
> 
> Now, besides the meaning is enough clear, there could be another matter (if you like to dicuss about):
> 
> - when I say *'sözü'*, am I saying "_its (/her/his) word_" or also "_its saying_" (= the act of saying that word) ?
> 
> Because, it is different: does 'Aşkın özü sözü bir' refers to
> 
> - *1)* '_the word-love, to mean the act of loving_'
> - or instead *2)* '_the act of saying 'love', to mean the person who says it_' ?? Explained aşağıda.
> 
> In more a general speech, does özü sözü bir refers to THE THING it is said (*söz* = "_the word_") or to THE ONE WHO SPEAKS (*söz* = "_the saying, the speaking_") ?Explained aşağıda.
> 
> So, what is _honnest_, _coherent_ (by the grammatical point of view):
> 
> - 'love' (_is coherent with its own word_)
> - or 'the boyfriend' (_is coherent with what he speaks about_) ?



1.First of all, "Aşk" here is not object but the subject of you sentence. Means it is not "saying love" or "act of loving" but it means
"The söz of Love and the öz of Love are the same."

I have written "love" with capital "L" to show that it is figurative and as my example above "Cennet'*in* özü sözü bir" _Aşk_ also can be considered as a _living_ thing.(personification)

2. "Söz" means "what is said" in azeri and its turkish equivalent is "laf". However it is introduced in Turkish and _sometimes_ used in azeri meaning but_ mostly_ used in the meaning of "promise".

3. By "word" if you mean : a book is a word, a chair is a word, I should say No, it doesn't mean "word", but if you mean "saying" or "what is said", I should say Yes, but in this meaning usually we say "word*s*" (in plural) as your translation in post4. That's why your translation is perfect because it is used in literary form ( by using "words" and not "saying")


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