# dual form in Modern Hebrew



## refiZ

So, I know in Modern Hebrew, the dual form is pretty much limited to parts of the body and units of time. (+ paamaaym)

Yet, in Arabic, the dual persists, perhaps for everything. (http://www.languageguide.org/arabic/grammar/dual.jsp)

Was there ever a time in Hebrew history where there was a similar situation? Or if it was obligatory?

Would it be wrong or unintelligible if I said, "תלמידיים", "סטודנטיים", "מכוניתיים", or "בירתיים (as in, "two beers")" ?

Mostly a curiosity. Thanks!


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## k8an

Yes, in Arabic it is used for all nouns. In Classical Arabic it is even used for verbs (not in any dialects though). 

I once read an article about the lack of this in Hebrew. Apparently it never existed to such an extent, or it disappeared very early on. 

I can't find the article so I could be wrong, but this is what I have read.


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## k8an

And yes, those dual words look very very strange and incorrect. 

You can use פעמיים, שעתיים, יומיים, חודשיים, שנתיים.

As you said, most of the other dual forms are for body parts.


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## arbelyoni

In many cases, the dual form is used as the plural ("pseudo-dual"):
Body parts - עינים, אוזניים, שיניים, ידיים, רגליים... (this table has three legs: לשולחן זה יש שלוש רגליים)
Garments - גרביים, נעליים, מכנסיים, משקפיים, מגפיים
And other words: כלאיים, ביניים, שוליים

Some words exist only in the dual form ("duale tantum"): בינתיים, חמוקיים, ירכתיים, מים, שמיים, צהריים, מאזניים, מלקחיים
Read more here.

The only "pure" dual forms that are still prevalent in Modern Hebrew are used for expressions of time and number: שעתיים, יומיים, שנתיים, מאתיים, אלפיים, פעמיים...


> Would it be wrong or unintelligible if I said, "תלמידיים", "סטודנטיים", "מכוניתיים", or "בירתיים (as in, "two beers")" ?


The dual form is non-productive in Modern Hebrew, so while "תלמידיים", "סטודנטיים", "מכוניתיים" and "בירתיים" are technically correct, they sound forced and unnatural. You may use them in a very formal speech, or for comic purposes.


> Was there ever a time in Hebrew history where there was a similar situation? Or if it was obligatory?


According to Gesenius, "the dual termination is never found in adjectives, verbs, or pronouns" in Biblical Hebrew (you may find the last paragraph in the link particularly interesting).


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## origumi

צהריים is originally not dual, although treated as dual for many centuries. This is attested in the Mesha Stele.


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## sawyeric1

In Pimsleur Hebrew they say, "פעמיים בירה". Would people actually say that? It seems wrong because doesn't פעמיים mean twice?


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## oopqoo

This is a type of construct that you'd use only when ordering food/beverage (there may be other uses but I can't think of them). It is correct to say שתי בירות but the more common way is saying פעמיים בירה. And you can also say שלוש פעמים בירה, ארבע פעמים קולה, etc, but in that situation you may be better off saying שלוש בירות, ארבע קולה.
Note that you can also say שלוש פעמים מהבירה קרלסברג 
(Adding the "מה-" before בירה)


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## Eredin

refiZ said:


> So, I know in Modern Hebrew, the dual form is pretty much limited to parts of the body and units of time. (+ paamaaym)
> 
> Would it be wrong or unintelligible if I said, "תלמידיים", "סטודנטיים", "מכוניתיים", or "בירתיים (as in, "two beers")" ?
> 
> Mostly a curiosity. Thanks!



Never in my life I have heard any other Hebrew speaker say : סטודנטיים, תלמידיים, מכוניתיים.
As to give you a rule when you CAN use it, I am afraid there isn't really a rule.
My best guess would be that it only works for things that always come in pairs such as:
 נעלים, מגפים, אוזנים, ידים, עינים .. etc.
Many are, like you said, body parts, since according to my wild guess, are things that always come in pairs.


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