# Ukrainian: Pronuciation of 'в'



## Cyberon

Hi, 

I am a new leaner of Ukrainian.
I have a problem about the correct pronunciation of 'в'.
From the "Wikipedia", it says both /v/ and /w/ are possible. But some websites only list /v/.

Could anyone tell me about the complete rule to pronounce the letter 'в'? Thanks.


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## paulinawl

Hi,

So, 'в' sounds like 'w' (english 'w', like in 'word') in the end of the word, f.ex: Київ, between consonant and vowel, f.ex: ковбаса 

In all different situations, 'в' sounds like "V"

that's all


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## Cyberon

Thanks for your reply.
I found another documents talk about this letter.
It has more complicated pronunciation status.

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The standard pronunciation of the letter  в is /v/, /u/ or /w/, depend on its position in relation to other sounds.
1. /v/ at the beginning of a word or phrase immediately before a vowel, and between vowels.
2. /u/ at the beginning of a word or phrase immediately before a consonant, and between consonants.
3. /w/ between a vowel and a consonant, and after a vowel at the end of a word.

How about the condition-2 ?
It should be /v/ or /w/ ??

The example is:
все [use]
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Thanks.


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## paulinawl

Hmm ok,so I found some my exercises and:

'в' sounds like 'u' (this is not exactly 'u', but sound like in 'word'):
- at the beginning of the word, before consonant 
- at the end of the word after a vowel
- in the middle of the word after a vowel, before consonant 

f.ex:
написав [napysau]
вдень [uden']
вовк [vouk]
дівчина [diuchyna]
Левко [Leuko]
глевкий [hleukyj]

So, 'все', also should sound like [use]

Can I write to You in ukrainian?


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## tkekte

Judging from the living Ukrainian that I heard when I lived in Ukraine, it doesn't sound like that at all. It's more in between [v] and [w], but not  at all. It's definitely a consonant. I never heard anyone say [diučyna], only [divčyna] or [diwčyna]. Same with verbs in the past tense... [napysav], [pišov]. With a clear v sound.

This is only my personal impression from listening to the language.

Let's wait for native speakers to confirm/deny.


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## Cyberon

Hi, 

Some more complicated examples :
( + Palatalization effect)

Now, how about these two words??
свята [?]
свято [?]

Thanks.


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## paulinawl

свято [sv'ato] You have to palatalize 'v' and then say 'a'

А що стосується \в\ на приклад  в слові \дівчина\, то правильна вимова за орфоепічними принципами української мови є власне така [diuchyna]
Знаю, що в розмовній мові в Україні важко почути правильну вимову, але це також залежить від регіону і на приклад в Західній Україні я завжди чула [diuchyna] ,натоміст багато людей під впливом російської мови кажуть [divchyna] ,[Kyjiv]


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## tkekte

Pod napływem rosyjskiego to byłoby [difčina], z miękkim ć i bezdźwięcznym [f].  Zachodna Ukraina, myślę, jest pod mocnym napływem słowackiego, w kterym naprawdę [v] się wymawia jako  w tamtych pozycjach. (Gdzieś tutaj miałyśmy dyskusję o słowackiem v.)

(Odpowiadam Ci po polsku bo po ukraińsku nie mogę mowić, tylko rozumieć. )


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## paulinawl

hehe no nie ma problemu,nawet fajnie ze po polsku 

No Zachodnia Ukraina mysle ze tez niestety pod wplywem polskiego, rosyjskiego jeszcze sie nie uczylam wiec nie wiem, natomiast takie sa zasady poprawnej wymowy jakie nam wpajali na zajeciach z gramatyki opisowej. Na szczescie nie ma to tak wielkiego znaczenia bo i tak kazdy zrozumie

A jak to jest ze slowem Київ (Києв) dokladnie w rosyjskim? Znalam kiedys taka dziewczyna z Kijowa ,ktora nie umiala powiedziec inaczej niz [Kyjiv], bo jak twierdzila jest z rodziny rosyjskojezycznej i tak sie u niej mowi, a z tego co nas ucza, poprawnie po ukrainsku powinno sie mowic [Kyjił]

Pozdrawiam


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## tkekte

Cyberon, to pronounce a palatalized consonant, pretend to insert a small _ between the consonant and the subsequent vowel.

[sviato] - pronounce it slowly, then faster, until the i disappears as a syllable, but its effect stays. _


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## tkekte

Paulina: zawsze słychałem tylko [kyjiv]. Po rosyjsku to będzie [kijef]. Ta dziewczyna jest dziwna, bo jeśli rosyjskojęzyczna jest, powinna wymawiać [kijef]... może ona była zmieszanojęzyczna.


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## tkekte

A co do mnie, to nawet jakoś trudno mi wymowić dokładnie [kyjił], staje mi się [kyjuł]... bo [ł] to niby  i zostaje [kyjiu] -> [kyju] przy wymowie szybkiej. Tak już napewno nie mówią... może ktoś mówi ale nigdy nie słychałem.

Pozdrawiam Cię też.


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## tkekte

Ale masz rację, znalazlem tu na wikipedii poprawną wymowę: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Kyiv.ogg i naprawdę brzmi jako [kyju].


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## paulinawl

Tkekte: no ta dziewczyna byla ogolnie dziwna wiec co do jej wymowy tez mam watpliwosci  No takie sa slownikowe zasady, zdaje sobie sprawe ze w rzeczywistosci to wyglada inaczej, a to 'u' o ktorym mowisz to w fonetyce tzw. 'u niezgłoskotwórcze'. Z drugiej strony natomiast, raczej zawsze mowie [Lviv],mimo,ze sytuacja jest identyczna jak w [Kyjiu], jakos nie pasuje mi [Lviu]


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## pimlicodude

paulinawl said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, 'в' sounds like 'w' (english 'w', like in 'word') in the end of the word, f.ex: Київ, between consonant and vowel, f.ex: ковбаса
> 
> In all different situations, 'в' sounds like "V"
> 
> that's all


Most textbooks say that в in Київ and дівчина is pronounced like у, but I have been to Kiev many times, and also Lviv, and I have never met a single Ukrainian who pronounces it like that. If you listen to дівчина on forvo . com, you will hear 9 audio files, and Takuboku and Senderle have the у pronunciation, and the other 7 have the в pronunciation. If you put Київ into forvo, Senderle also has the у pronunciation in that word. But having been (incorrectly) told by a dozen or more Ukrainians that the у pronunciation is simply wrong, I think it may have been the old pronunciation in the 1970s, and that younger people, under strong Russian-language influence, now pronounce words more in line with the spelling. In other words, you will hardly meet anyone nowadays who says в in these words.


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## pimlicodude

There is a relationship between у and в in Ukrainian. вродлИвий means good-looking, but the online Словник української мови says this can also be уродлИвий (thus having the opposite meaning to the Russian урОдливый). Україна has, at least in poetry, been found as Вкраїна. If you want to hear the у pronunciation, go on Youtube and look for The Gospel of John (New Testament - Translation of His Holiness Patriarch Filaret), read by Микола Козій. It's very obvious how he says був like буу, знав like знау.


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## Awwal12

pimlicodude said:


> There is a relationship between у and в in Ukrainian. вродлИвий means good-looking, but the online Словник української мови says this can also be уродлИвий (thus having the opposite meaning to the Russian урОдливый). Україна has, at least in poetry, been found as Вкраїна. If you want to hear the у pronunciation, go on Youtube and look for The Gospel of John (New Testament - Translation of His Holiness Patriarch Filaret), read by Микола Козій. It's very obvious how he says був like буу, знав like знау.


Basically /u/ may turn into /v/ between a vowel and a following consonant (which will be - orthoepically - [w]~[u̯] in that position). It may be worth mentioning that East Slavic [w] tends to be more lax than its English counterpart. Still, it doesn't form a syllable.


pimlicodude said:


> and the other 7 have the в pronunciation


Katya_P even has a very clear [f], which seems influenced by standard Russian.


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