# Iie



## skajam66

I understand the concept of using single word (Hai, Iie) responses to questions except for the negative case where either a negative or affirmative response is expected. For example:

Tabemasen ka - here, if the speakers' meaning is "Won't you eat?" an affirmative response is expected so I would think the a valid response would be: "Hai, tabemasu" ("Thank you, I'll eat" - although in reality it would more likely be "Arigatou gozaimasu").  But, if the speakers' meaning is "You won't eat?" a negative repsonse is expected so I would think that a valid response would be: "Hai, tabemasen" ("That's right, I won't eat")

The question is: how do you know what the speakers' meaning is? Is it purely on how the question is inflected?


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## Juuuergen

I think "You won't eat?" would be phrased differently. I think this would be better translated into something like:

食べないんですか。

The "んです" form is used to express a reason for an action. For example, if everyone else is eating and you are sitting there not eating, someone might ask you that. I guess in English it might be loosely translated as "Oh, you're not going to eat?" in that context. Or, for example, if you see someone shivering, you could say　寒いんですか。 which might be translated "Are you cold? (because I saw you shivering)" 

I'm pretty sure 食べませんか。 just by itself is used only as a request.


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## skajam66

@Juuuergen - thanks. I understand.


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## Strutter

I know how you feel. As a matter of fact, there have been a few times where I misunderstood questions like that.



skajam66 said:


> The question is: how do you know what the speakers' meaning is? Is it purely on how the question is inflected?



I don't think it completely depends on the tone of voice. The context of the question should be more important.  If there is no reason to believe that you're not going to eat it, then it will probably be just a question. On the other hand, if there is enough reason to believe it, then it will probably be a confirmation.


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## skajam66

Well... I thought I had this sorted out but, sadly, no. Going a little further in my textbook (Jorden's 'Beginning Japanese - Part 1'), I came across this dialogue sequence that uses adjective/nouns rather than verbs as in my prior example:

E: Oh, that's a pen
J: Aa, sore wa pen desu

E: Isn't it a pencil?
J: Enpitsu ja arimasen ka

E: No, it's a new pen
J: Ee, atarashi pen desu

The sticking point for me here is that the response to the second snippet doesn't make sense given the English meaning of the question posed. In English, the implication is that the speaker believes that the object is a pencil and is seeking confirmation of that assumption. If the object was not a pencil (as in this case), I would expect the respondee to negate the speakers' assumption with something like: "Iie, atarashi pen desu" ("No, you're wrong. It's a new pen).

If, on the other hand, the speaker had said "It isn't a pencil, correct?" the speaker here believes that the object is not a pencil and is seeking confirmation that it is not. For this, I would expect a response something like: "Ee, atarashi pen desu" ("You are right, it's not a pencil. It's a new pen").

The problem could just be the English translation of the second snippet so my question is: what is the assumption inherent in the Japanese question "Enpitsu ja arimasen ka" - that the object referred to is or is not a pencil?


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## Yoshiee

Hi



> The problem could just be the English translation of the second snippet so my question is: what is the assumption inherent in the Japanese question "Enpitsu ja arimasen ka" - that the object referred to is or is not a pencil?


 
If you ask "Enpitsu ja arimasen ka" to somebody, the questioner is implying either that it is a pencil and comfirming it is a pencil or it is not a pencil and confirming it not, putting weight on "not" only a little.

If it is a pencil, you can reply to it that "Hai(Ee), Enpitsu desu." meaning Yes, it is a pencil. 

Problem is, if it is not pencil, you have to reply that "*Iie,* Enpitsu deha(ja) arimasen" and you would say, but it is a new pen.

Accordingly, your 3rd sentence of E/J should go like:

E: No, (it is not a pencil, but) it's a new pen.
J: *Iie,* (Enpitsu ja arimasen), atarashi pen desu. ==> as you have suggested.



> The problem could just be the English translation of the second snippet


 
I think the translation for the second snippet is OK and your suggestion is also correct but jsut 3rd one.


However, I have one simple example that if you ask " Enpitsu ja arimasen  *ne *?" This is cuasing the speaker to imply only that it could not be a pencil and jsut confirming. The answer therefore should be " Hai, Enpitsu ja arimasen"

I hope it could help.


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## Strutter

skajam66 said:


> The problem could just be the English translation of the second snippet so my question is: what is the assumption inherent in the Japanese question "Enpitsu ja arimasen ka" - that the object referred to is or is not a pencil?



Hmmmm, yeah, that is somewhat ambiguous.

Firstly (you probably already know though), in Japanese, when answering a negative question (and positive question too), "はい" means "That's right." and "いいえ" means "That's wrong."

In this case, it depends on the questioner's character whether they still believe it is a pencil or not. If they are so willful or something that they still believe it is a pencil and it is therefore wrong, then the right response has to be "いいえ". If not and it is right, then it has to be "はい" or "ええ".(of course there are a lot of other words can be used for each case instead of はい or いいえ though.)

Finally, with no reason, you shouldn't doubt what someone said (I mean, "that's a pen"), then I think this "鉛筆じゃありませんか" is just a confirmation after all, in other words, like "it isn't a pencil?"

To know the truth, I think we have to directly ask Jorden.(じょうだんです。)


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## Yoshiee

Hi skajam66

Possibly you have been in the famous magic world of YES, NO differenciation between English and Japanese, with which Japanese also sometimes get confused, when they answer some English question such as Won't you eat the soup, will you?

I think this is very deep.


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## skajam66

@Yoshiee - "I hope it could help."
Yes, thank you.

@Strutter - "To know the truth, I think we have to directly ask Jorden"
Sadly, that's not possible

@Yoshiee - "Possibly you have been in the famous magic world of YES, NO differenciation between English and Japanese"
It looks like I found this magic world quite quickly. Rather than ponder on it I will pay very careful attention to how native speakers respond to such questions. As a student, I think I can avoid problems by making sure the remainder of the sentence after the Hai or Iie is abundantly clear. THat way, an error in the Hai or Iie won't be fatal.

Thank you all for your help on this....


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