# Cognates in Icelandic of some English words



## laurent485

Hi,

I am doing a comparative study of germanic languages vocabulary. I have some difficult in finding cognates in Icelandic for some English words. By cognate I mean that words derive from the same root and do not necessarily have the same meaning. Here are those words:

begin, break, bring, feel, lean, play, show, shut, sleep, speed, throw, wring. 

Other two words are more complicated for me: 1) learn : it developped from two old English words, the one is læran which is cognate to læra in Icelandic and lehren in German, but for the other leornian cognate to German lernen, I can´t find the cognate in Icelandic; 
2) teach: from Old English tæcan cognate to German zeigen. I only found the Icelandic teikn and German Zeichen corresponding to token - the noun form of teach.

For all these words, it is easy to find their cognates in Modern high German and Dutch as together with English, they derive from the West Germanic branch. 

 Could anyone help me? Thanks.


----------



## Tazzler

You have to understand that some language developments may not only be peculiar to the West Germanic branch but also peculiar to English as well. I suggest you check out a good etymological dictionary to find word origins and cognates. From your list, I could find a few:

-"wring" has an obvious cognate in "hringa"
-"teach" is related to the word "token", which has a cognate in "tákn/teikn"
-"feel" has a cognate in "fálma", which means "grope"
-"warp" derives from the Old English word "weorpan", which meant "throw" and so has the cognate "varpa", which means "throw" 
-"brittle" has a cognate in "brjóta", which means "break"


----------



## Magb

Tazzler said:


> -"wring" has an obvious cognate in "hringa"



I don't think so. _Hringa_ is surely related to _hringur_ "ring", which is from PGmc. _*khrengaz_. "Wring" is from PGmc. _*wrenganan_, which emerges in Icelandic as _rangur_, _rengja_, etc. (From earlier Old Norse _vrangr_, _vrengja_, where the relationship is more obvious.)



Tazzler said:


> -"warp" derives from the Old English word "weorpan", which meant "throw" and so has the cognate "varpa", which means "throw"
> -"brittle" has a cognate in "brjóta", which means "break"



These are no doubt correct, but they are the reverse of what he's asking for.


----------



## Alxmrphi

"Bring" came from Old English _bringan_, which goes back to Proto-Germanic _bringanan_. This comes down to Icelandic as* bringa* (a breast/chest plate), however, not in a verb form (sc).



> but they are the reverse of what he's asking for.


But he's supplying the Icelandic cognate word.
Isn't that what the OP is asking for?



> I have some difficult in finding cognates in Icelandic for some English words





> -"warp" derives from the Old English word "weorpan", which meant "throw" and so has the cognate "varpa", which means "throw"
> -"brittle" has a cognate in "brjóta", which means "break"


----------



## Magb

Alxmrphi said:


> "Bring" came from Old English _bringan_, which goes back to Proto-Germanic _bringanan_. This comes down to Icelandic as* bringa* (a breast/chest plate), however, not in a verb form (sc).



Can you find anything else to corroborate this etymology? "To bring" > "Breast" seems like a very strange piece of semantic shift, and I've encountered spurious Wiktionary etymologies in the past.



Alxmrphi said:


> But he's supplying the Icelandic cognate word.
> Isn't that what the OP is asking for?



Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I thought his question was whether there were Icelandic cognates of the words he listed, not whether the Icelandic _translations_ of the words he asked for had English cognates. If he 's looking for that as well, then I could for instance add that the standard Icelandic word for "shut", _loka_, is a cognate of English "lock".


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

*Að slappa* could be a cognate of *to sleep*. I can't say that with any certainty, but it seems possible. In modern Icelandic *að slappa af* means *to relax*.


----------



## Alxmrphi

Silver_Biscuit said:


> *Að slappa* could be a cognate of *to sleep*. I can't say that with any certainty, but it seems possible. In modern Icelandic *að slappa af* means *to relax*.



_Sleep _in Old English was* slæpan*, so it seems probable.
(the æ in Old English is the normal 'a' sound, not the diphthong in Icelandic pronunciation)


----------



## Alxmrphi

> Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I thought his question was whether  there were Icelandic cognates of the words he listed, not whether the  Icelandic _translations_ of the words he asked for had English cognates


It wasn't about translations though. 'Shut' being lock/loka is not what has happened with warp/varpa, and_ brjota _isn't a translation of _brittle_, but cognate (as etymonline says).
We're finding common related ancestors, so for example *warp* and* varpa* are two linked ancestors. I am not sure if I misunderstood your post.


----------



## laurent485

I think <brjóta> is not cognate to <break>, although they are so alike. BrjóTa is cognate to Norwegian brjoTa, Swedish bryTa, Danish bryde, Old English bréoTan and Middle High German brieZen. BreaK is from Old English breKan from Proto Germanic breKanan cognate to Dutch breKen, Old High German breHHan, Modern German breCHen and Gothic briKan.


----------



## Alxmrphi

laurent485 said:


> I think <brjóta> is not cognate to <break>, although they are so alike. BrjóTa is cognate to Norwegian brjoTa, Swedish bryTa, Danish bryde, Old English bréoTan and Middle High German brieZen. BreaK is from Old English breKan from Proto Germanic breKanan cognate to Dutch breKen, Old High German breHHan, Modern German breCHen and Gothic briKan.



Nobody said* brjóta* is cognate to* break*.
What Tazzler said was it's cognate to *brittle*, but in modern Icelandic the meaning of* brjóta *is* break.*


----------



## Magb

Alxmrphi said:


> It wasn't about translations though. 'Shut' being lock/loka is not what has happened with the other examples.
> We're finding common related ancestors, so for example *warp* and* varpa* are two linked ancestors. I am not sure if I misunderstood your post.



I'm confused now. My understanding was that if he was interested in learning about _varpa_ and _warp_ being cognates, then he would've included _warp_ in his list of words he couldn't find Icelandic cognates for. I'm also not sure what you mean about lock/loka being different from what's happened with the other examples. What's the difference?



Silver_Biscuit said:


> *Að slappa* could be a cognate of *to sleep*. I can't say that with any certainty, but it seems possible. In modern Icelandic *að slappa af* means *to relax*.



Maybe, but it could also be related to _sleppa_ "to release", which I think is from PGmc _*slipanan_ (c.f. English "slip"), not _*slæpanan_.



laurent485 said:


> I think <brjóta> is not cognate to <break>, although they are so alike. BrjóTa is cognate to Norwegian brjoTa, Swedish bryTa, Danish bryde, Old English bréoTan and Middle High German brieZen. BreaK is from Old English breKan from Proto Germanic breKanan cognate to Dutch breKen, Old High German breHHan, Modern German breCHen and Gothic briKan.



They are indeed not cognates, and actually I don't think anyone thought they were. This conversation is getting rather confusing though, so I'm not quite sure anymore.


----------



## Alxmrphi

> I'm confused now. My understanding was that if he was interested in learning about _varpa_ and _warp_ being cognates, then he would've included _warp_  in his list of words he couldn't find Icelandic cognates for. I'm also  not sure what you mean about lock/loka being different from what's  happened with the other examples. What's the difference?


I think I am as well! 
I thought *warp* was in the list of words! I've just checked again and I think I might have imagined it, ok this makes your post make a lot more sense.

*Edit: Brittle *wasn't asked for either! Ok I now don't understand why Tazzler used those terms.
I thought his list reflected the list of the OP, but now I see it doesn't, and Mag's post makes sense now.


----------



## sindridah

Silver_Biscuit said:


> *Að slappa* could be a cognate of *to sleep*. I can't say that with any certainty, but it seems possible. In modern Icelandic *að slappa af* means *to relax*.



I find it very unlikely. Even tough slappa af means to relax it is something that tells me that there is no relation. Seems so unlikely, But i have no sources to proof my point!


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

I'm not sure why it's suggested that all of these words _should_ have cognates in Icelandic? My knowledge of the history of languages is a bit shaky once I stray outside the English language, but I thought that North Germanic from which derived the Nordic languages was a separate branch from West Germanic, whence came Dutch, German, Anglo-Saxon etc. Isn't it fair to say that a word like *break* is West Germanic in origin and need not necessarily have any cognates in a Nordic language? It looks to me from what people have said so far like the word for *break* split at some point into a West Germanic form using a k and a North Germanic form using a t. English got the k, Icelandic got the t, therefore there won't be a cognate. Is this a fair assumption?


----------



## Alxmrphi

> I thought that North Germanic from which derived the Nordic languages  was a separate branch from West Germanic, whence came Dutch, German,  Anglo-Saxon etc


Corrrrrrrrrrrrrrect 
Actually, I agree with almost everything you have said, but want to note two things. One is that it's often surprising how some words stay stable (as well as how quickly others get transformed) and the other is that, if "_English got the k and Icelandic got the t_", they'd still be classed as cognates.

What we'd have to think about otherwise is that some people invented a new word for the action of _breaking_, which seems a bit unusual for people to do, because it's almost certain they would have had a suitable meaning anyway to express this, so it leaves us with the question of where did the word come from, and naturally try to find an older word shared in a closely related language.


----------



## Magb

Silver_Biscuit said:


> I'm not sure why it's suggested that all of these words _should_ have cognates in Icelandic? My knowledge of the history of languages is a bit shaky once I stray outside the English language, but I thought that North Germanic from which derived the Nordic languages was a separate branch from West Germanic, whence came Dutch, German, Anglo-Saxon etc.



You're absolutely right. There's no reason why there should be a cognate, and for several of the words laurent485 listed, there doesn't appear to be one.



Silver_Biscuit said:


> Isn't it fair to say that a word like *break* is West Germanic in origin and need not necessarily have any cognates in a Nordic language? It looks to me from what people have said so far like the word for *break* split at some point into a West Germanic form using a k and a North Germanic form using a t. English got the k, Icelandic got the t, therefore there won't be a cognate. Is this a fair assumption?



Technically, in the situation you're describing, _break_ and _brjóta_ _would_ in fact be cognates, since there would be some ancestral word that they're both derived from. But in fact, _break_ is from Proto-Germanic _*brekan_ and _brjóta_ is from the completely unrelated _*breutan_. So there isn't really an alternation between a T and a K; there are merely two completely unrelated words that happen to look similar.


----------



## Alxmrphi

All things considered, there are still a number of other ways to translate *break* in Icelandic that might warrant considering:

*Bresta* (*)*
Brotna* (*)

.. for example.
I don't think these will turn out to be a cognate either, but there's no reason why _brjóta_ is more important to consider than these alternatives.
I'm not sure about it but I think _bresta_ could be cognate with English _burst_ (from_ berstan_), which metathesis can explain quite easily.


----------



## Magb

Alxmrphi said:


> All things considered, there are still a number of other ways to translate *break* in Icelandic that might warrant considering:
> 
> *Bresta* (*)*
> Brotna* (*)
> 
> .. for example.
> I don't think these will turn out to be a cognate either, but there's no reason why _brjóta_ is more important to consider than these alternatives.
> I'm not sure about it but I think _bresta_ could be cognate with English _burst_ (from_ berstan_), which metathesis can explain quite easily.



_Bresta_ is from PGmc. _*bristan_ (source), and is cognate of English _burst_ (Old English _berstan_) (Edit: you already mentioned this, so consider this a confirmation of your hypothesis.)

_Brotna_ is the _brot-_ supine stem of _brjóta_ plus the causative suffix -na, i.e. "make broken".


----------



## Tazzler

I said in my post that some developments are peculiar to West Germanic and English in particular, so there aren't necessarily cognates for every single word. I just provided a list of cognates based on the meaning of those verbs. I thought it'd be interesting anyways, so I mentioned those terms somewhat for fun, especially considering that making lists skirts the boundaries of "out of forum's scope" .


----------



## Sepia

laurent485 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am doing a comparative study of germanic languages vocabulary. I have some difficult in finding cognates in Icelandic for some English words. By cognate I mean that words derive from the same root and do not necessarily have the same meaning. Here are those words:
> 
> begin, break, bring, feel, lean, play, show, shut, sleep, speed, throw, wring.
> 
> Other two words are more complicated for me: 1) learn : it developped from two old English words, the one is læran which is cognate to læra in Icelandic and lehren in German, but for the other leornian cognate to German lernen, I can´t find the cognate in Icelandic;
> 2) teach: from Old English tæcan cognate to German zeigen. I only found the Icelandic teikn and German Zeichen corresponding to token - the noun form of teach.
> 
> For all these words, it is easy to find their cognates in Modern high German and Dutch as together with English, they derive from the West Germanic branch.
> 
> Could anyone help me? Thanks.




The High German word for "learn" isn't "lehren".

"Learn" is "lernen" (one step closer ...)

"lehren" means "teach".


In Danish both words can be translated with "lære".


----------



## Magb

Sepia said:


> The High German word for "learn" isn't "lehren".
> 
> "Learn" is "lernen" (one step closer ...)
> 
> "lehren" means "teach".
> 
> 
> In Danish both words can be translated with "lære".



He didn't say anything about what the words mean in High German. That Old English _læran_ is a "cognate" of German _lehren_ means that the words are derived from the same word in their common ancestral language (Proto-Germanic). It says nothing about what the words mean in the modern languages.


----------



## Cagey

Let's wait for laurent485 to clarify his question himself.  That way, everyone will be certain they are on the right track. 

It would also be helpful if he will give a summary list of the words for which he feels he has satisfactory answers at this point, and another list of the words about which he still has a question.  

Cagey, moderator.


----------



## sindridah

Ok i have to ask even so it makes me look like a fool but i'm famous for that

What's is the difference between Cognate and Origin of words? It's confusing me!


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

sindridah said:


> Ok i have to ask even so it makes me look like a fool but i'm famous for that
> 
> What's is the difference between Cognate and Origin of words? It's confusing me!


 
Cognates are words which have a common ancestor in the 'evolution' of words/languages. It's usually obvious that they are related, because of similarities in spelling/pronunciation. For example, *bók* and *book* are cognates, which happen to mean the same thing. Not all cognates mean the same thing, however, as meanings can diverge as different languages evolve. For example, *karl* and *churl*, meaning *man /* *old man *and *rude person* respectively. Sorry that's a bit of an obscure example, but it's the first one I could think of.

The origin of words (the technical term is etymology) is just a branch of learning concerned with where words come from and how different languages are related. The etymology of a word is its history, basically.


----------



## Alxmrphi

*Sæll *and *silly* is another one.
(I mentioned this in a PM to Sindri)


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

Alxmrphi said:


> *Sæll *and *silly* is another one.
> (I mentioned this in a PM to Sindri)


 
Ah, that's a much better example.


----------



## laurent485

By cognates I mean that words in different Modern languages derive from a common word and/or root in the proto language. Of course the meaning will change over the years. I am doing the study with three etymologic dictionaries, Icelandic, Swedish and English respectively. 

With the help of afore-mentioned dictionaries, I find that:
1) play is cognate to Swedish pläga and Icelandic which come from Middle Low German plegen related to Old English pléon meaning æfa sig

2) make is cognate to Swedish and Icelandic maka which derive from Old Low German maken related to Old High German machon

3) break is probably cognate to Icelandic breka related to Old English gebrec Old High German brehhon and Gothic brikan, but I´m not totally sure about this,


----------



## laurent485

Anyone has an idea about Icelandic or Swedish cognates of the words Fight and Show?


----------



## laurent485

I have just found out that Icelandic braka / bráka and Swedish bråka / bräcka cognate are cognate to English break and German brechen. Could any Icelandic or Swedish native speaker verify this? Thanks


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

I can give you the definitions of the Icelandic words. 
*að braka* = *to creak*
*að bráka* = *to bruise*


----------



## Silver_Biscuit

Aha, I thought I'd check in Cleasby-Vigfusson and found this: 


> *braka*, að, [cp. Ulf. _brikan_ = GREEK; _A. S. brecan;_ Engl. _to break;_ Lat. _frangere_] :-- _to creak,_ of timber, Hom. 155, Fs. 132, Gísl. 31, Fas. ii. 76.


Looks like that's a winner.


----------

