# family + singular / plural



## Omvazquez31

Regards :
What's  the form correct to the next statements??
My family watch a lot of t.v.? or My family watches a lot of t.v.? and why?

[...]


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## grahamcracker

Omvazquez31 said:


> Regards :
> What's  the form correct to the next statements??
> My family watch a lot of t.v.? or My family watches a lot of t.v.? and why?
> 
> [...]


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## Omvazquez31

thanks friend


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## flljob

Family es la tercera persona del singular, por lo tanto le corresponde _watches_.


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## grahamcracker

> My family watch a lot of t.v.?


Family is a third person singular noun.

I see, you see, she sees, he *sees*, they see, we see.

Third person singular nouns need an *"s"* with the verbs.


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## blasita

Hello.

'Family' is a collective noun. As far as I know, in BrE collective nouns can take either singular or plural verbs depending on whether the focus is on individual members or on the group as a whole, so technically both "my family watches ..." and "my family watch ..." are correct. Singular is preferred in AmE in similar cases.

Saludos.


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## bzu

^I agree with blasita.


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## Agró

Singular words which refer to groups of people (like family, team, government) can often be used as if they were plural, especially in British English.

_My *family have* decided to move to Nottingham._

(...)

M. Swan, _Practical English Usage_.


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## Spug

Agró said:


> Singular words which refer to groups of people (like family, team, government) can often be used as if they were plural, *especially* in British English.




I agree, but I'd change _especially_ to _only_. Here in the States, I have never heard the plural form of a verb used with collective nouns like _team _and _family_.


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## saintcasper91

In the UK, 95% of the time, people say 'Watch' although I think that watches is probably correct.

I think that in the US they are more strict about that.

We would say Manchester United ARE winning 2-1, but in the USA, I think they would say IS. Unless, you are writing an essay, both are correct.

Another example would be that most people in the UK would say...'The government ARE going to lower taxes'


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## blasita

saintcasper91 said:


> In the UK, 95% of the time, people say 'Watch' although I think that watches is probably correct.



I think we can state that singular and plural are both grammatically correct in this case; just different use.


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## Masood

Spug said:


> *I agree, but I'd change especially to only*. Here in the States, I have never heard the plural form of a verb used with collective nouns like _team _and _family_.


I wouldn't go that far, Spug. 
There are plenty of other English-speaking countries in the world.


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## saintcasper91

'ONLY in British English'

What about the Irish??


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## bzu

saintcasper91 said:


> We would say Manchester United ARE winning 2-1, but in the USA, I think they would say IS. Unless, you are writing an essay, both are correct.


^I think Saintcasper's football team example is a good one. In the course of a game, it would sound "off" to most British ears for a commentator to say "Manchester United IS playing well" because we imagine the team as a group of individuals and not as some kind of abstract single entity playing by itself. On the other hand, it would be preferable to say "Manchester United IS a global brand". As blasita said, it's about the focus. But as mentioned above, most Americans consider that "ARE" usage as just plain wrong.

PS: Pop/rock groups are another good example. In the UK we would usually say: "Radiohead are...", whereas in North America: "Radiohead is...".


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## tetémv

Is 'family' a singular or a plural noun?


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## Tegui

You can use both forms. If you consider your family as a "whole group" then you use singular. If you consider ech one of them as an individual of a group, you use plural.


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## Chris K

Tegui said:


> You can use both forms. If you consider your family as a "whole group" then you use singular. If you consider each one of them as an individual of a group, you use plural.



Agreed. I personally would say "my family goes skiing" and I think that would be common usage in the US.


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## RicardoElAbogado

No, you can't use both forms, at least not in US English.  Certain nouns are treated as plural nouns in British English but as singular nouns in US English.  Thus, nouns like the family, the jury, the company all take the singular in US English (but not in British English).  In proper US English, it must be "my family goes skiing."


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## Chispa123

But in sports.....even though the Patriots is the team's name, when talking about the team, we use the plural. The Patriots are not having a great season this year!


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## ribran

RicardoElAbogado said:


> No, you can't use both forms, at least not in US English.  Certain nouns are treated as plural nouns in British English but as singular nouns in US English.  Thus, nouns like the family, the jury, the company all take the singular in US English (but not in British English).  In proper US English, it must be "my family goes skiing."



No, it depends on the sense.

_The jury *is* sequestered in the hotel.
__The jury *are* fighting about their verdict.
_
http://books.google.com/books?id=1t2zB51150oC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22jury+are+fighting%22&source=bl&ots=U_mwPlFZ7i&sig=p3OmnDdSP1bGne3wxUAluPXVc7g&hl=en&ei=wNjMTuCUIdT1sQKs1cDSDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22jury%20are%20fighting%22&f=false


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## Tegui

In Michael Swan's _Practical English Usage_ he says that US English commonly uses SINGULAR in these cases (though they can take plural pronouns), but "family" is the exception that can take either singular or plural.


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## fenixpollo

Tegui said:


> In Michael Swan's _Practical English Usage_ he says that US English commonly uses SINGULAR in these cases (though they can take plural pronouns), but "family" is the exception that can take either singular or plural.


Doesn't sound right to me. I can't think of a single example in which family could be plural. Does Swan give any specific examples? 





Chispa123 said:


> But in sports.....even though the Patriots is the team's name, when talking about the team, we use the plural. The Patriots are not having a great season this year!


 Because the team's name is plural. The Patriots are not having a great season, but Real Salt Lake is, and so is the Minnesota Wild.


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## Tegui

fenixpollo said:


> Doesn't sound right to me. I can't think of a single example in which family could be plural. Does Swan give any specific examples? Because the team's name is plural. The Patriots are not having a great season, but Real Salt Lake is, and so is the Minnesota Wild.



Fenixpollo, the example  Mr Swan gives is this:

_"My family *have* decided to move to Nottingham. *They think *it's a better place to live"
_


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## luo.mai

Chispa123 said:


> But in sports.....even though the Patriots is the team's name, when talking about the team, we use the plural. The Patriots are not having a great season this year!


The team is playing well.
The Patriots are playing well. (Not one Patriot, but many Patriots, plural).


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## luo.mai

Tegui said:


> Fenixpollo, the example  Mr Swan gives is this:
> 
> _"My family *have* decided to move to Nottingham. *They think *it's a better place to live"
> _


Tegui, this is an example of British English. In American English, it would be "My family has…"


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## Spug

Tegui said:


> ...the example  Mr Swan gives is this:
> 
> _"My family *have* decided to move to Nottingham. *They think *it's a better place to live"
> _




"My family have decided to move to Nottingham." BE, and perhaps other regions such as Australia and New Zealand (but wait for confirmation from speakers from those regions)

"My family has decided to move to Nottingham." AE.

fenixpollo is right with respect to AE in this construction. It would be very rare for an AE speaker to say "My family have..."


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## luo.mai

ribran said:


> No, it depends on the sense.
> 
> _The jury *is* sequestered in the hotel.
> __The jury *are* fighting about their verdict._


Ribran, your link to Webster's didn't let me see anything. In any case, "The jury are fighting" sounds very strange to my American ears. I would say "The members of the jury are fighting," or "The jurors are fighting," but "The jury is…"


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## Chispa123

fenixpollo said:


> Doesn't sound right to me. I can't think of a single example in which family could be plural. Does Swan give any specific examples?  Because the team's name is plural. The Patriots are not having a great season, but Real Salt Lake is, and so is the Minnesota Wild.



Accuse me of bad English, Fenix, but are the Real Salt Lake's really having a good season?  And how about those Minnesota Wild's?


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## fenixpollo

Tegui said:


> Fenixpollo, the example Mr Swan gives is this:
> 
> _"My family *have* decided to move to Nottingham. *They think *it's a better place to live"
> _


 In AE, it would definitely be "My family *has *decided to move to Nottingham. *They think* it's a better place to live." With the verb "think", it would be strange to use the singular when referring to what it is that all of the family members think. So Swan was half right because it appears that we use incorrect grammar in this one example ("incorrect" because of the lack of parallel structure). 





Chispa123 said:


> Accuse me of bad English, Fenix, but are the Real Salt Lake's really having a good season? And how about those Minnesota Wild's?


I didn't mean to sound like I was accusing you of anything, Chispa. I was agreeing with you that we use plural pronouns and verbs for plural team names; then I also pointed out that we use singular pronouns and verbs for singular team names. And yes, they are both having good seasons.


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## Spug

luo.mai said:


> In any case, "The jury are fighting" sounds very strange to my American ears.




I agree completely. I've never heard such a usage anywhere in the US. It's standard and (as far as I know) fully acceptable BE usage, but it sounds quite jarring to us.


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## ribran

luo.mai said:


> Ribran, your link to Webster's didn't let me see anything. In any case, "The jury are fighting" sounds very strange to my American ears. I would say "The members of the jury are fighting," or "The jurors are fighting," but "The jury is…"



Sorry, the examples are on pages 40 and 41. Also here on page 88. 


More examples:
Here
Here (page 164)
Here (page 105)


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## luo.mai

Interesting reading, ribran. These sources all confirm that it is standard American usage to treat collective nouns as singular. _The Writer's Guide Grammar Desk Reference _laments the "inconsistency" when people use a singular verb with a group noun and then turn around and speak of its members in the plural, e.g. "Her family was Catholic and treated like second-class citizens." But this example (from the _Atlantic Monthly_) just goes to show how strongly Americans don't want to say "Her family were Catholic".

Other examples cited in your linked sources of collective nouns taking plural verbs:

"The committee argue often about their opinions."
"Sigurd's soccer team all have the flu."

While these sentences are grammatically correct, and apparently perfectly acceptable in the UK (and in what other English-speaking countries I won't venture to guess), as far as American usage goes I would say they're quite awkward. To be sure, "The committee argues often about its opinions" isn't any better, since we mean to talk about the various members of the committee at variance with each other, not about a unified whole. What I would actually say, then, is: 

"The committee members argue often about their opinions." 
"Everyone on Sigurd's soccer team has the flu," or "All of the guys on Sigurd's soccer team have the flu." 
"They were Catholic and treated like second-class citizens."


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## ribran

luo.mai said:


> Interesting reading, ribran. *These sources all confirm that it is standard American usage to treat collective nouns as singular*.


OK, but that doesn't mean they can't be considered plural. 



luo.mai said:


> While these sentences are grammatically correct, and apparently perfectly acceptable in the UK (and in what other English-speaking countries I won't venture to guess), *as far as American usage goes I would say they're quite awkward*. To be sure, "The committee argues often about its opinions" isn't any better, since we mean to talk about the various members of the committee at variance with each other, not about a unified whole. What I would actually say, then, is:


They were all written by Americans. Your suggestions all seem fine to me, but I don't see it as necessary to frame them that way.

(I don't like all the examples, but I disagree with the claim that "singular" nouns always take singular verbs in AmE.)


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## Tegui

So, it's simple: in AE *collective nouns* take singular verbs and in BrE we can use either singular or plural.
Please remember that Mr Swan's book is British and when needed he points out what the usage in AmE is.


EDITED : *collective nouns* instead of _singular nouns_ (Thanks to Ribran and Fenixpollo for correcting my mistake)


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## ribran

Tegui said:


> So, it's simple: in AE singular nouns take singular verbs and in BrE we can use either singular or plural.
> Please remember that Mr Swan's book is British and when needed he points out what the usage in AmE is.



I'm not sure what led you to that conclusion... There are general preferences, but it's not so simple.

Really, check any modern American usage guide. They all say pretty much the same thing.


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## fenixpollo

Tegui said:


> So, it's simple: in AE singular nouns take singular verbs and in BrE we can use either singular or plural.


I disagree that it's simple, because it's not a distinction between "singular nouns" versus "plural nouns". The concept here is *collective noun*: a noun that appears to be singular, but which can be treated as either singular or plural -- which is a preference, as ribran says, that mostly depends on the speaker's region.


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## RicardoElAbogado

Most (if not all) American English-speakers would say "The jury *members *are fighting about their verdict."


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## Dianuchis_26

Hi, so for example, which one of this two phrases are correct?
"My family love me" or "My family loves me" 
And why?


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## DearPrudence

A few selected posts that should answer your question 


grahamcracker (American English) said:


> Family is a third person singular noun.
> 
> I see, you see, she sees, he *sees*, they see, we see.
> 
> Third person singular nouns need an *"s"* with the verbs.





blasita said:


> Hello.
> 
> 'Family' is a collective noun. As far as I know, in BrE collective nouns can take either singular or plural verbs depending on whether the focus is on individual members or on the group as a whole, so technically both "my family watches ..." and "my family watch ..." are correct. Singular is preferred in AmE in similar cases.
> 
> Saludos.





Agró said:


> Singular words which refer to groups of people (like family, team, government) can often be used as if they were plural, especially in British English.
> 
> _My *family have* decided to move to Nottingham._
> 
> (...)
> 
> M. Swan, _Practical English Usage_.





Spug said:


> I agree, but I'd change _especially_ to _only_. Here in the States, I have never heard the plural form of a verb used with collective nouns like _team _and _family_.





saintcasper91 (British English) said:


> In the UK, 95% of the time, people say 'Watch' although I think that watches is probably correct.
> 
> I think that in the US they are more strict about that.
> 
> We would say Manchester United ARE winning 2-1, but in the USA, I think they would say IS. Unless, you are writing an essay, both are correct.
> 
> Another example would be that most people in the UK would say...'The government ARE going to lower taxes'





RicardoElAbogado (American English) said:


> No, you can't use both forms, at least not in US English.  Certain nouns are treated as plural nouns in British English but as singular nouns in US English.  Thus, nouns like the family, the jury, the company all take the singular in US English (but not in British English).  In proper US English, it must be "my family goes skiing."


So to sum up:
Para resumir,
en inglés británico, sería:
*my family love me* (plural: collective noun)
pero en inglés americano:
*my family loves me *(singular)


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