# All IIR Languages: corruption



## panjabigator

Greetings,

What are some words for bureaucratic corruption?  In Hindi, does <bhraShtachar> work well?  

Best,
PG


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## Subhash Kumar

panjabigator said:


> Greetings,
> 
> What are some words for bureaucratic corruption? In Hindi, does <bhraShtachar> work well?
> 
> Best,
> PG


Yes, Bhrashtaachaar भ्रष्टाचार is the correct (and most commonly used) word for bureaucratic corrpution in Hindi.
The exact same word is used in Marathi as well.
This word is Sanskrit and I believe (but not 100% sure) that this word is (most commonly) used in most of the other Indian languages (from Indo Iranian sub-family).


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## Faylasoof

Subhash Kumar said:


> Yes, Bhrashtaachaar भ्रष्टाचार is the correct (and most commonly used) word for bureaucratic corrpution in Hindi.
> The exact same word is used in Marathi as well.
> This word is Sanskrit and I believe (but not 100% sure) that this word is (most commonly) used in most of the other Indian languages (from Indo Iranian sub-family).



Interesting! 

 bhrashtaachaar भ्रष्टाचार is not used in Urdu though!
We usually say:

رِشوَت سِتانی_ rishwat sitaanii _/ رِشوَت خوری_ rishwat xorii  _/  حَرام خوری _Haraam xorii_ (= taking bribes).

In certain context, خِیانَت _xiyaanat_ (embezzlement) can also be used.


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## panjabigator

A friend just told me the other day that consumption of one's _jhuta_ makes you भ्रष्टाचार.  Sounds severe! How about in other languages?


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## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof said:


> Interesting!
> 
> bhrashtaachaar भ्रष्टाचार is not used in Urdu though!
> We usually say:
> 
> رِشوَت سِتانی_ rishwat sitaanii _/ رِشوَت خوری_ rishwat xorii  _/  حَرام خوری _Haraam xorii_ (= taking bribes).
> 
> In certain context, خِیانَت _xiyaanat_ (embezzlement) can also be used.



Yes indeed, I would like to add that *rishwat-khorii* is most commonly used in PK nowadays. *Haraam-khorii* conveys other shades of meaning (It is linked to the concept of _*haraam*_ or _*halaal kamaaii*_.) 

For embezzlement I suggest also *khurd o burd* or *ghaban*.


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Yes indeed, I would like to add that *rishwat-khorii* is most commonly used in PK nowadays. *Haraam-khorii* conveys other shades of meaning (It is linked to the concept of _*haraam*_ or _*halaal kamaaii*_.)



I know what you mean but: 

_rishwat kii kamaaii haraam kii kamaaii hai aur rishwat xorii haraam xorii hii  hai_

_haraam xorii _can of course be used in a more general sense not just bureaucratic corruption. Even so, it represents a corrupt moral state. 



Cilquiestsuens said:


> For embezzlement I suggest also *khurd o burd* or *ghaban*.




 خِیانَت _xiyaanat_  is also embezzlement (peculation, perfidy, dishonesty, breach of trust), but yes we also use the following:

خورد برد_xurd burd _= peculation, squandering, misappropriation of funds, embezzlement. 
The verb being خورد برد كرنا_xurd burd karnaa._

غَبن_ghabn*_ = defrauding; fraud,   misappropriation of funds.

*we pronounce it with a _sukuun_ on ب, as in the Arabic original. 

Interestingly, فسادin its original meaning is _corruption_ but in Urdu has acquired a different usage, viz. <_iniquity, mischief, violence, war, sedition_>.


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## Cilquiestsuens

By the way talking of embezzlement etc.... we didn't mention two other important words such as : _*ghaplaa*_ (that would mean almost the same as _*ghaban*_ and it is translated sometimes as scandal)... there's also _*hera-pherii*_ which is more technically speaking like cheating with figures... tampering with the accounts etc...

_*xiyaanat*_ is precisely betrayal of trust. So it is used also for embezzlement as you can say that some politician betrayed the trust of the people who elected him.

I wonder if the specific Urdu words here (such as _xiyaanat_ and _ghaban_, the others are common to Urdu and hindi) have a Hindi equivalent???


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## BP.

Cilquiestsuens said:


> ...
> I wonder if the specific Urdu words here (such as _xiyaanat_ and _ghaban_, the others are common to Urdu and hindi) have a Hindi equivalent???



Let's add _aqribaa parwarii_-اقربا پروری-nepotism to the list while we're at it.


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## panjabigator

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Let's add _aqribaa parwarii_-اقربا پروری-nepotism to the list while we're at it.



What context is this used in?


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## omlick

panjabigator said:


> Greetings,
> 
> What are some words for bureaucratic corruption? In Hindi, does <bhraShtachar> work well?
> 
> Best,
> PG


 
I wanted to mention the word for week "haftaa" which is used specifically to refer to payoffs to cops.


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## BP.

^Never heard of it. Are you sure you got the right word?


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> By the way talking of embezzlement etc.... we didn't mention two other important words such as : _*ghaplaa*_ (that would mean almost the same as _*ghaban*_ and it is translated sometimes as scandal)... there's also _*hera-pherii*_ which is more technically speaking like cheating with figures... tampering with the accounts etc...



The literal menaing of _*ghaplaa*_ is _confusion / chaos = gaR baR _ گَڑ بَڑ/ _abtarii_ ابتری . But when applied to accounts and monetary situations then it suggests embezzlement.


> _*xiyaanat*_ is precisely betrayal of trust. So it is used also for embezzlement as you can say that some politician betrayed the trust of the people who elected him.



This is what I had in mind!



omlick said:


> I wanted to mention the word for week "haftaa" which is used specifically to refer to payoffs to cops.



This I haven't heard!


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## omlick

Faylasoof said:


> The literal menaing of _*ghaplaa*_ is _confusion / chaos = gaR baR _گَڑ بَڑ/ _abtarii_ ابتری . But when applied to accounts and monetary situations then it suggests embezzlement.
> 
> 
> This is what I had in mind!
> 
> 
> 
> This I haven't heard!


 
Oh really, that was one of the first words I learned from BW films, in that slang sense before I even knew its literal meaning:  week.


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## panjabigator

Omlink, which movie have you heard this in?  Really interesting - maybe we can find a youtube link.


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## Faylasoof

omlick said:


> Oh really, that was one of the first words I learned from BW films, in that slang sense before I even knew its literal meaning:  week.



It is certainly not used so in standard Urdu (or colloquial Hindi as far as I know). Slang? Maybe, but then I we have been watching different kinds of movies!


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## omlick

panjabigator said:


> Omlink, which movie have you heard this in? Really interesting - maybe we can find a youtube link.


 

I don't remember!  I had it in a note book at one point when I was taking down language samples from the films I was watching.  But I am sure it is common in the Mumbai slang vocabulary.  I think most movies with dirty cops who are taking bribes will have this word spoken in them.  

It is also used in a book I am reading called "Haunting Bombay" in this sense as well.


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## omlick

Faylasoof said:


> It is certainly not used so in standard Urdu (or colloquial Hindi as far as I know). Slang? Maybe, but then I we have been watching different kinds of movies!


 
The reason why haftaa is used in this sense is because the cops probably show up evey week to collect their bribes


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## omlick

Here is a link on Wikipedia.  I am surprised that this is not commonly known, cause like I said it was one of my first hindi words that I learned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafta


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## Faylasoof

As a slang, this appears to be a corruption of_ haftahwaar_, which means <weekly>, just like _maahwaar_ means <monthly>. 

In Urdu proper, _weekly payments_ would be _haftahwaar adaa’ii_ / _adaa’igii_– used quite normally by us. Whereas _haftah_ in Urdu and Persian means <week> or <Saturday>, its use as a slang for weekly bribes / payments is not really common. Certainly not in non-gangland / non-protection racketeering circles. In fact, it doesn't make any sense but that is no surprise as most of those who use this / coined it are either semi-literate or just plain illiterate. 

 Weekly bribes, _haftah_ as meant here, is a corrupt act but I don’t think we can use it to mean the word <corruption>. 

 BTW, in UK English too you can find similarly odd examples. One that comes to mind is the word <heater>. In some crime circles it is a euphemism for a <gun>. So named because when one is shot, I’m told, one feels hot -if still conscious!

 ... and we do seem to be watching different kinds of movies!


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## omlick

Faylasoof said:


> As a slang, this appears to be a corruption of_ haftahwaar_, which means <weekly>, just like _maahwaar_ means <monthly>.
> 
> In Urdu proper, _weekly payments_ would be _haftahwaar adaa’ii_ / _adaa’igii_– used quite normally by us. Whereas _haftah_ in Urdu and Persian means <week> or <Saturday>, its use as a slang for weekly bribes / payments is not really common. Certainly not in non-gangland / non-protection racketeering circles. In fact, it doesn't make any sense but that is no surprise as most of those who use this / coined it are either semi-literate or just plain illiterate.
> 
> Weekly bribes, _haftah_ as meant here, is a corrupt act but I don’t think we can use it to mean the word <corruption>.
> 
> BTW, in UK English too you can find similarly odd examples. One that comes to mind is the word <heater>. In some crime circles it is a euphemism for a <gun>. So named because when one is shot, I’m told, one feels hot -if still conscious!
> 
> ... and we do seem to be watching different kinds of movies!


 
I just mentioned it as a side note since the thread was about corruption and it is related, mainly for BW non native speaker fans.


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## panjabigator

Could someone comment on "corruption" in Persian?  Would the following words (suggested by FLS) be used?


> رِشوَت سِتانی rishwat sitaanii / رِشوَت خوری rishwat xorii / حَرام خوری Haraam xorii (= taking bribes).


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## Illuminatus

_hafta-wasooli _is a common phrase for the collection procedure.


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> could someone comment on "corruption" in persian?  Would the following words (suggested by fls) be used?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> رِشوَت سِتانی   rishwat sitaanii / رِشوَت خوری rishwat xorii / حَرام خوری   haraam xorii (= taking bribes).
Click to expand...


PG,

In Persian, corruption meaning _bribery_ is:

رشوه خوري_ reshweh xuurii_, پاره ستاني_ paareh sitaanii_, رشوه_ reshweh_, رشاء_ reshaa2_ , ارتشاء_ erteshaa2_.

A person accepting bribes is: 
رشوہ خوار_ reshweh xwaar_
   رشوہ خور_ reshweh xuur_
   رشوہ گیر_ reshweh giir_

But _corruption_, generally is also: فساد_ fasaad_
One of the meanings of the word انحراف_ inHiraaf _is also corruption, but it has other meanings too.


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## Birdcall

Is this word 'fasaad' related to 'fasaadii,' which in Hindi means an aggressive person?


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## panjabigator

Thanks FLS.

Is this the same <fasād> as <dange fasād>?


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> Thanks FLS.
> 
> Is this the same <fasād> as <dhange fasād>?


 
Yes it is, and by the way, it is *dange* (no '*h*')


The word *fasaad* has a broad range of meanings, for the following *aayah* appears a number of times in the Noble Qur'an and is very well-known to Muslims, even illiterate ones:



> *
> و لا تفسدوا في الأرض
> 
> wa laa tufsiduu fil' arDi
> 
> *




'And don't foment trouble on Earth' (My bad translation)

(tufsiduu is a conjugation of the verb afsada = 4th degree of the root *fa-sa-da*)

The meaning of this root includes / covers all the meanings posted by foreros in the previous posts.


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## panjabigator

Thanks for the correction!  I wasn't too sure...

I've seen this word to mean 'riots', mainly.


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## BP.

_fasaad _is a faceted word, but IMV it could be understood as 'disturbing the balance [of the world/system]'.


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _fasaad _is a faceted word, but IMV it could be understood as 'disturbing the balance [of the world/system]'.


 
In that context yes. This is the gist of the aayah. I like your translation.

If I have to believe my books, the real - basic - meaning of the root *fa-sa-da* is to rot, to go rotten, and figuratively it encompasses all the meanings of corruption, trouble, disorder.


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## BP.

^Merci pour l'explication. Là ça colle parfaitement.


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> ^Merci pour l'explication. Là ça colle parfaitement.


 
A votre service très cher ami!


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> Thanks FLS.
> 
> Is this the same <fasād> as <dange fasād>?


 Yes, as Cilqui says this is the same <fasaad> that we use in Urdu. However, in Persian the word has a use closer to its original Arabic meaning than in Urdu. The Arabic meaning of <corruption, decay, rot> is implied in Urdu in our understanding of <fasaad> resulting from corruption, decay and breakdown of social order.

BTW, for singular nominative  we say <dang*aa* fasaad  دنگا فساد> while the pularl is <dang*e* fasaad دنگے فساد>.


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