# mettere le mani avanti



## albyahua

Esiste un'espressione inglese equivalente all'italiana "mettere le mani avanti"? 

("to indicate the possibility to have unsatisfactory results, emphasizing that it is not the speaker's fault if this happens")

Grazie


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## Lello4ever

Ho trovato "to safeguard oneself".


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## cerchi

Io ho trovato _to play (it) safe_.


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## baldpate

cerchi said:


> Io ho trovato _to play (it) safe_.


 
"to play (it) safe" e' la traduzione che ho trovato anche io, nel dizionario Oxford-Paravia.  Ma, a dire la verita', non sono del tutto convinto : "to play (it) safe" vuole dire "agire in modo per assicurarsi di un buon risultato, perfino al costo di piu' sforza, piu' tempo, per ottenerlo".

Questo significato e'  un po' diverso dalla spiegazione data da albyhua?


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## housecameron

baldpate said:


> "to play (it) safe" e' la traduzione che ho trovato anche io, nel dizionario Oxford-Paravia. Ma, a dire la verita', non sono del tutto convinto : "to play (it) safe" vuole dire "agire in modo per assicurarsi di un buon risultato, perfino al costo di piu' sforza, piu' tempo, per ottenerlo".
> 
> Questo significato e' un po' diverso dalla spiegazione data da albyhua?


 
Direi di sì, è diverso. Nel linguaggio più informale diciamo pararsi il  c**o, e cioè anticipare/avvisare a priori che quell'operazione (o quello che è) potrà rivelarsi fallimentare per una serie di motivi, cautelandosi e scaricando così parte delle proprie responsabilità.


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## Giak

Per rendere ancora più chiaro ai non nativi italiani il senso della frase **mettere le mani avanti**, diciamo anche che rimanda alla seguente immagine:

"camminare tenendo le mani/braccia pronte ad ammortizzare un'eventuale caduta _(non è detto che tale caduta si verificherà, ma è possibile/probabile che si verifichi, specialmente se si cammina su un percorso pericoloso)_ affinchè ci si faccia meno male possibile".

Ipotizzando invece una "caduta" all'indietro, ecco il senso della frase (colloquiale) **pararsi il c#lo**


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## Memimao

I am familiar with the term "cover your a**e" but it is not quite the same. Baldpate: what about "duck the issue"?


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## Giak

Memimao said:


> I am familiar with the term "cover your a**e" but it is not quite the same...


 
Well, in Italian it may refers to something else, too... You can feel less pain (or no pain at all if you're lucky ) covering your **** before someone else comes and tries to f**k you (but unsuccessfully, because of your previous covering... )


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## cerchi

Scusatemi, pensavo....si potrebbe dire _I can't commit myself_?


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## Leo57

albyahua said:


> Esiste un'espressione inglese equivalente all'italiana "mettere le mani avanti"?
> 
> ("to indicate the possibility *of having* unsatisfactory results, emphasizing that it is not the speaker's fault if this happens")
> 
> Grazie


 
Hi everybody
Sorry, I haven't come up with anything better, but this might help in finding an English equivalent.   Any phrases that come to my mind simply don't match up with albyahua's example above.

Mettere le mani avanti = sinonimi: sondare /_vedi anche_: indagare, investigate, saggiare, tastare il polso, tastare il terreno.

Sondare =  probe/ examine 
Indagare = to investigate / to inquire into / to trace out / to search into
Tastare il polso = test the pulse (feel the pulse)
Tastare il terreno = test the ground / to feel one’s way / to explore the situation       
Tastare = to touch, to feel carefully / to probe / to finger /      
 
Ciao
Leo


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## Giak

Leo57 said:


> Hi everybody
> Sorry, I haven't come up with anything better, but this might help in finding an English equivalent. Any phrases that come to my mind simply don't match up with albyahua's example above.
> 
> Mettere le mani avanti = sinonimi: sondare /_vedi anche_: indagare, investigate, saggiare, tastare il polso, tastare il terreno.
> 
> Sondare = probe/ examine
> Indagare = to investigate / to inquire into / to trace out / to search into
> Tastare il polso = test the pulse (feel the pulse)
> Tastare il terreno = test the ground / to feel one’s way / to explore the situation
> Tastare = to touch, to feel carefully / to probe / to finger /
> 
> Ciao
> Leo


 
Well, I think we are in a differet context 
When you *metti le mani avanti* you are not probing/investigating/testing the puls/etc.

You *metti le mani avanti* when you guess that what you are going to do might have bad consequences/results.
You warn someone else (who might be concerned) about these possible bad results, so if these bad results took place for real nobody would be off-guard, and you would be blamed in a very lighter way (and your guilt feelings wouldn't be too heavy). 

I don't know if it is clear...


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## Paulfromitaly

I think that "to cover yourself/your back/your arse" could do in some contexts.


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## baldpate

Paulfromitaly said:


> I think that "to cover yourself/your back/your arse" could do.


 
I thing "to cover yourself/your back" is exactly right - it is the polite way of saying "to cover your arse", which is rather vulgar, but has the sense of "excusing yourself in advance from blame for a future failure" which seems to be required by the previously posted explanations of the italian phrase.

Memimao's "duck the issue" _might_ work in some contexts, although to me it feels like "seek avoid an issue entirely", rather than "seek to avoid blame"


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## Leo57

Hi everybody
I forgot to include the web page for the "sinonimi", you never know it might help somebody.  
sinonimi
We just can't leave this post now until you have read this joke about "covering your a.." .   
ShortStory
Bye for now
Leo


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## albyahua

Grazie a tutti, siete stati fantastici!

Cheers!


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## Giak

Leo57 said:


> Hi everybody
> I forgot to include the web page for the "sinonimi", you never know it might help somebody.
> sinonimi




Sorry, I still don't agree with its definition about *mettere le mani avanti* 





			
				Leo57 said:
			
		

> We just can't leave this post now until you have read this joke about "covering your a.." .





			
				Leo57 said:
			
		

> ShortStory
> Bye for now
> Leo


 
Very funny


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## lingogal

And what about simply "to protect oneself"?


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## Paulfromitaly

lingogal said:


> And what about simply "to protect oneself"?



I don't think your translation would work since "mettere le mani avanti" often has a slightly negative nuance.
It's more like finding an excuse in advance to justify a failure rather than protecting oneself.


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## lingogal

Grazie, Paul. Then it seems that your idea of "cover your ..." is what would fit the best!


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## AshleySarah

Leo57 said:


> sinonimi
> ShortStory


 
Ciao Leo,
Many thanks for the terrific link and for the funny story. 
You've made my day better!


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## SquirrelCage

This is took from an essay:​ 
Questo è stato scritto quando tutti i giochi erano da farsi, e Orwell vedeva che l’Europa e il mondo avrebbero potuto compiere una svolta totalitaria, e *metteva le mani avanti* proponendo riforme radicali ma confermando la sua fedeltà al regime parlamentare in crisi. È affascinante vedere Orwell davanti a questo bivio della storia, che allora
era completamente aperto.​ 


I think that:

mettere le mani avanti = (LITTERALLY) "to put one's hands forward" or "to stretch one's hands in front of oneself" 


_[I'm not sure of the correct use of the red verbs]_
_(as when one is in a dark room and does it to prevent oneself to knock against any piece of furniture)_​​

mettere le mani avanti = (IDIOMATICALLY) "to forestall" = it is not "to preview that something bad MAY (but does not have to) happen and to act in order to prevent it" but "to preview that someone could blame one for something he did that has revealed to be a mistake" or "to prevent a counterargument in a discussion"
"Mettere le mani avanti" is not meant to prevent the bad thing itself (as instead it is "pararsi il culo") but it is not meant to prevent blame only!!! It can be meant to prevent blame if one's action was a lapse or to prevent a counterargument in an exchange of opinion. I can't completely agree about the "negative nuance", but I must admit that it has a negative nuance in the 90% of times. In my example it has not! 
_(the metaphor doesn't work perfectly: one stretches one' hands to avoid a piece of furiniture in a dark room as one takes measures to avoid a bad happening in an unforseeable future, he doesn't do it to prevent blame for one's crash into the furniture or to better kick back the furniture that one hit)_​ 

to forestall = prevenire
the point is: there is an idiomatic expression in english to say it as in italian without using swearwords?​


Thank you everybody​


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## Paulfromitaly

Hai letto i 19 post precedenti?


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## SquirrelCage

Paulfromitaly said:


> Hai letto i 19 post precedenti?


 

Si,
infatti ho spiegato che nelle precedenti discussioni si confondono 'pararsi il culo' e 'mettere le mani avanti', per il fatto che, secondo me, non si considera che il primo serve a evitare l'evento negativo in sé, il secondo a evitare la critica o una risposta a tono in uno scambio di opinioni. Per questo ho rettificato il mio precedente post, in cui neanche io avevo colto questa sottigliezza. Inoltre vorrei evitare la parola "culo"


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## Paulfromitaly

Lello4ever said:


> Ho trovato "to safeguard oneself".



Is there a more colloquial equivalent of this?
Let me try to come up with another example of "mettere le mani avanti"

Paul knows that Tom is going to ask him for some help to lift a heavy table but he can't be bothered to do it as Tom is a pain in the behind and he's never willing to return the favour.
When Tom is about to ask, Paul says: "Gosh, my back is so sore today!"

Paul ha messo le mani avanti, that is he made it so that Tom can't really ask him for any help.


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## baldpate

In this scenario, Paul is preempting the request for help by offering an excuse in advance of the request. I might say "Paul _got his oar in first_" (an idiom deriving from rowing, obviously).

However, although idiomatic, the expression is not limited to, nor specific to, the above scenario (preempting an unwanted request).  For example:
It is time for the annual round of pay increase.  Times are hard, and Jim knows that his boss is only going to offer him a rise of a paltry £300 a year.  So Jim _gets his oar in first_, and says "I'm really looking for a rise of at least £1,500, or I'll have to consider looking for another job."


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## Paulfromitaly

baldpate said:


> In this scenario, Paul is preempting the request for help by offering an excuse in advance of the request. I might say "Paul _got his oar in first_" (an idiom deriving from rowing, obviously).
> 
> However, although idiomatic, the expression is not limited to, nor specific to, the above scenario (preempting an unwanted request).  For example:
> It is time for the annual round of pay increase.  Times are hard, and Jim knows that his boss is only going to offer him a rise of a paltry £300 a year.  So Jim _gets his oar in first_, and says "I'm really looking for a rise of at least £1,500, or I'll have to consider looking for another job."


I think your suggestion works alright in some contexts.
We say it when we guess what the other person is going to ask and we want to make it clear there's a problem with it or we are not willing to oblige, yet we don't want to blatantly say "NO".
Thanks


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## rafanadal

We have a very informal sentence in Italian (I opened a thread a few months back) which means basically the same thing.
The phrase is "Stiamo ai primi danni". 
It might be used (and was actually by one of my Italian students in the English class) if the teacher said: "Now up to you to come up with some new example"
A student might say, jokingly, "Stiamo ai primi danni, meaning :Hey teacher, don't put us in trouble, don't get us to do something we are very likely to do wrong.
Literally: "Let's leave while the first damages have been done, let's not move any further : Doesn't this convey a similar meaning as :"Mettiamo le mani avanti"?


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## Paulfromitaly

rafanadal said:


> We have a very informal sentence in Italian (I opened a thread a few months back) which means basically the same thing.
> The phrase is "Stiamo ai primi danni".
> It might be used (and was actually by one of my Italian students in the English class) if the teacher said: "Now up to you to come up with some new example"
> A student might say, jokingly, "Stiamo ai primi danni, meaning :Hey teacher, don't put us in trouble, don't get us to do something we are very likely to do wrong.
> Literally: "Let's leave while the first damages have been done, let's not move any further : Doesn't this convey a similar meaning as :"Mettiamo le mani avanti"?



Ma questo non vuol dire "mettere le mani avanti", ma "limitare i danni" 
Le due espressioni non hanno lo stesso significato.

One more example: I want to go sailing but I  need someone else to join me as my sailing boat requires at least a crew of 2 people.
Tom doesn't really like to go sailing and before I even ask him, he comes out with something like "Last time I went sailing I got so sea-sick!"
Tom mette le mani avanti.


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## Puccini

I would have used the expression "to cover yourself" as a politer alternative to "cover your arse"


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## Huw

Puccini said:


> I would have used the expression "to cover yourself" as a politer alternative to "cover your arse"




I would agree 100% with this - I have the same expression in a text I am translating right now:

Tale studio, il più grande mai effettuato sulla pericolosità dei telefoni cellulari, dopo 10 anni di lavoro e 10mila interviste condotte in 13 Paesi, parlava di un'assenza di rischio per gli utilizzatori, fatta eccezione per i più assidui, *anche se erano gli stessi autori a mettere le mani avanti*: “I risultati non ci permettono di dire che c'è qualche rischio associato all'uso dei telefonini, ma è anche prematuro affermare che il rischio non c'è”.

I am also toying with the possibility of using the expression "...although the authors themselves were quick to qualify their findings". I think the term "to qualify" works well for this expression too, although 'to cover yourself' is probably the best in a general sense. A final option I have thought of that may work, especially in my context, is a more literal translation in a physical sense 'to hold your hands up', which is like an admission to something in English. In this case they are admitting that the opposite may be true to their findings and indeed they are admitting that they don't really know and nothing is conclusive. I think this nuance in meaning may be stretching the original meaning somewhat however.


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## Pancrazio De Consuelo

Non sono d'accordo.
Poniamo la frase di discorso diretto - *Metto le mani avanti*, questo non significa che mi piacciano più le fragole delle ciliegie.
Io tradurrei - *Just to make things clear*, this doesn't mean I like strawberries more than cherries.


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