# sudaca



## maxikiosco

Can anyone think of an English translation for _sudaca_? I have translated it as 'South American', but does _sudaca_ not have more xenephobic, even racist, connotations?


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## JKL2008

Of course "sudaca" has xenophobic notations.
Better don't translate. Use South American.


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## alexacohen

In Spain it very much depends.

Many inmigrants from South America use the word to refer to themselves,

When used by a stupid and ignorant person it does have xenophobic connatations, but, as far a I know, not racist.


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## CarolMamkny

JKL2008 said:


> Of course "sudaca" has xenophobic notations.
> Better don't translate. Use South American.



"South American" is not the same as "Sudaca". I can think of "Spic", "Beaner","Wetback", even the use of names like "Juan", "Maria" or "Manuel" to refer to "us" here in the U.S. But I'm sure there are plenty of options- Saludos


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## alexacohen

JKL2008 said:


> Of course "sudaca" has xenophobic notations.
> Better don't translate.


What do you mean?

It´s a translation, and translators should translate as accurately as possible whatever they´re paid to translate, without changing its meaning - even if the meaning is awful and racist.

If someone paid me to translate "Mein Kampf" I would do it. But I would not omit or change anything. Because by hiding its disgusting racism and cruelty I would be, in fact, helping Hitler.


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## BocaJuniors

alexacohen said:


> In Spain it very much depends.
> 
> Many inmigrants from South America use the word to refer to themselves,
> 
> When used by a stupid and ignorant person it does have xenophobic connatations, but, as far a I know, not racist.


 
As far as I know, we, Central or South Americans, do not call ourselves "sudacas" or any other names beyond Central or South Americans.

However, all my former college classmates and teachers from Spain (from various parts of the coutry I might add) were very and extremely clear to me and my other Central and South American classmates, that the word "sudaca" was derogatory, offensive and racist. This was confirmed by several of my cousins who attended post graduate studies in Madrid.

Personally, I don't care whether "sudaca" is racist or not. However, I do agree with Alexacohen when she stated that a translator should translate as it is, racist or not. Translators, as she points out, should stick to the exact meaning.


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## richiem

Totally agree with alexacohen in using that word if it was meant to be there for a reason.

And it's a word that it's not in use in US for the simple reason that the majority of Latin migrants are Mexicans or Central Americans. On the other hand if a Spaniard call me sudaca, I'd consider it offensive because all the xenophobic connotation it has, although I might tolerate it from a fellow South American. Same double moral that the N word has unfortunately.


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## maxikiosco

Thanks everyone! I would leave it in the original Spanish and add a footnote but it's for an oral interpreting exercise. Thanks for the suggestions CarolMamkny, but this example is Spanish people being derogatory towards South Americans, and I think your suggestions are more ethnic slurs used agains Hispanics in general. Maybe I would be better off leaving it as 'South American', hmmmmmm ?


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## didakticos

maxikiosco said:


> Can anyone think of an English translation for _sudaca_? I have translated it as 'South American', but does _sudaca_ not have more xenephobic, even racist, connotations?


 
But so far, we haven't helped maxikiosco with his/her translation. WR Dictionary says South American, but we agree that is not the same. It would be better for he/she to keep the word without translating it, and make a footnote instead?

I found the word in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudaca


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## alexacohen

BocaJuniors said:


> However, all my former college classmates and teachers from Spain (from various parts of the coutry I might add) were very and extremely clear to me and my other Central and South American classmates, that the word "sudaca" was derogatory, offensive and racist.


It is. But it is true, too, that many South American people choose to refer to themselves as "sudacas", at least here.
If my Uruguayan workmate describes herself as "sudaca", it´s because she feels proud of what she is.
Were I to use it, it would be indeed derogatory.


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## aztlaniano

I've been told (in Spain) that "sudaca" comes from "sud", obviously, and "acá" (over here). Also, the word "acá" is used more by Latin Americans than it is by many Spaniards.  Whether it is pejorative or not depends on the person using it, I would say. Nevertheless, I would avoid it. Anyway, it makes sense only in Spain.
saludos


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## Metzaka

alexacohen said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> It´s a translation, and translators should translate as accurately as possible whatever they´re paid to translate, without changing its meaning - even if the meaning is awful and racist.
> 
> If someone paid me to translate "Mein Kampf" I would do it. But I would not omit or change anything. Because by hiding its disgusting racism and cruelty I would be, in fact, helping Hitler.


Coudn't agree more. But when words dont have a precise translation/adaptation, it is probably better to leave them in the original language and use a footnote, as suggested by didaktikos.
Saludos.


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## andylopez

maxikiosco said:


> Can anyone think of an English translation for _sudaca_? I have translated it as 'South American', but does _sudaca_ not have more xenephobic, even racist, connotations?




I will answer to you with another question (a typical behaviour of some Spaniards , not necessarily myself, but anyway):

How would you translate into English the term _cachupín_?

As you know, we (the Spaniards) are known in South America as *cachupines* (or *gachupines*), a word as despective/xenophobic and/or racist as _sudaca_ may seem here referred to South American people. In my opinion, nowadays both are less offensive than they were in the past, and are used even in friendly, colloquial conversations.

So coming to my question, I'd simply translate _cachupines_ as Spaniards.


And applying the same logic, I'd simply translate _sudaca_ as South American.




Another story is to try to explain if it's considered despective / xenophobic / racist, but for the purpose of a pure translation you don't need to.




Regards


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## todasana

El "titulo" de gallego es usado para denominar a los españoles puesto que los primeros emigrantes salidos de España en su mayoría eran gallegos y cuando se les preguntaba de dónde eran, ellos se denominaban gallegos, ergo, se empezó a generalizar para los españoles el uso de ese gentilicio. Generalmente se toma a los gallegos por brutos (no es mi concepto, pero es muy generalizado). 

Pero el apelativo "sudaca" es bastante peyorativo, comenzó a utilizarse cuando el movimiento migratorio se fortaleció en sentido inverso, es decir, sudamericanos que venían a España e indudablemente eran personas dispuestas a hacer cualquier trabajo por poco dinero. 

Habiendo vivido a ambos lados del océano Atlántico, considero igual de despectivo el utilizar gallego o sudaca para identificar a unos u otros. No creo que sea suceptible de tradución (literal) cualesquiera de estos términos con el mismo sentido que se les da en español.


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## didakticos

La primera vez que escuché el término _*sudaca*_ fue en una canción que Pablo Milanés y Joaquín Sabina cantaban a dúo. Aunque no conocía el significado del término, el contexto me lo dejó bien claro.

_y, si dos vascos atracan_
_a un farmacéutico en Vigo_
_jura el testigo que eran *sudacas*. _

(De _La casa por la ventana_: http://www.joaquinsabina.net/2005/11/01/la-casa-por-la-ventana/).

¿Puede este término ser más peyorativo?

Con respecto al término _gachupín_, no lo usamos en mi país para referirnos a los españoles, pero Angeles Mastretta (México) lo utiliza mucho en sus escritos.


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## Cabeza tuna

Ocurre algo parecido con la palabra nigger, traducir el odio que esa palabra lleva al español no es fácil ocurre similar con sudaca y el ingles.


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## alexacohen

didakticos said:


> La primera vez que escuché el término _*sudaca*_ fue en una canción que Pablo Milanés y Joaquín Sabina cantaban a dúo. Aunque no conocía el significado del término, el contexto me lo dejó bien claro.
> 
> _y, si dos vascos atracan_
> _a un farmacéutico en Vigo_
> _jura el testigo que eran *sudacas*. _
> 
> ¿Puede este término ser más peyorativo?


No puedes usar esa estrofa como guía, no es tan claro como tú crees. 

Ninguna persona atracada a punta de pistola por un par de _vascos _encapuchados los acusaría jamás. Tendría demasiado miedo. Son _vascos_, tienen armas. Podrían pertenecer a una banda terrorista bastante letal.
Sería mucho más seguro identificarlos como "sudacas". Los inmigrantes pobres no tienen, normalmente, una organización detrás que busque venganza.

Yo dejaría la palabra tal y como está en español, y explicaría lo que es con una nota a pie de página.


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## Cabeza tuna

No entiendo, ¿Se refiere a que aunque sabe que son vascos lo hace para causarle conflictos a los sudacas, o para evitar meterse en problemas con los etarras?


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## alexacohen

Cabeza tuna said:


> No entiendo, ¿Se refiere a que aunque sabe que son vascos lo hace para causarle conflictos a los sudacas , o para evitar meterse en problemas con los etarras ?


 
Por lo segundo, naturalmente. Pero lo que quiero decir es que no se puede tomar una canción para entender el sentido de una palabra.


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## dame50

CarolMamkny said:


> "South American" is not the same as "Sudaca". I can think of "Spic", "Beaner","Wetback", even the use of names like "Juan", "Maria" or "Manuel" to refer to "us" here in the U.S. But I'm sure there are plenty of options- Saludos



hata el momento son las únicas propuestas que aportan algo, pero en general, según mi expreciencia, se refiere a latinos en general y no en particular a sudamericanos (sudacas).

Y para mi es una palabra peyorativa, y cuando viví en Canadá, si alguien usaba esa palabra era motivo de problemas.
Saludos
Dm50


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## Cabeza tuna

alexacohen said:


> Por lo segundo, naturalmente. Pero lo que quiero decir es que no se puede tomar una canción para entender el sentido de una palabra.


 
Lo comprendo pero me había quedado la duda.
Me acorde de que en USA se instalaron unas señaléticas que tenían por imagen a una familia de inmigrantes corriendo se hicieron bastante populares y ahora son un icono bastante pop, estas tenían un nombre es mas el símbolo tenia un nombre que lamentablemente no recuerdo (nuevamente el tener acceso tan limitado a Internet me complica), pienso que ese termino podría ser ocupado, lamento lo ambiguo.


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## L4ut4r0

dame50 said:


> hata el momento son las únicas propuestas que aportan algo, pero en general, según mi expreciencia, se refiere a latinos en general y no en particular a sudamericanos (sudacas).



Hasta donde entiendo, la palabra Sudamérica en España incluye México y Centroamérica.

Sudamerica desde Usuaia hasta Mexico DF

*http://listas.20minutos.es/?do=show&id=47788*
Con sudaca es parecido. El DRAE dice *
1.     * adj. despect. coloq._ Esp._ *suramericano.* Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.

Esto es ambiguo,porque suramericano es
*1.     * adj. Natural de Suramérica o América del Sur. U. t. c. s.

En cambio el Diccionario de Uso del Español de María Moliner no deja lugar a dudas:
*sudaca* (desp.) adj. y n. Hispanoamericano.


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## dame50

L4ut4r0 said:


> Hasta donde entiendo, la palabra Sudamérica en España incluye México y Centroamérica.
> 
> Sudamerica desde Usuaia hasta Mexico DF
> 
> 
> Con sudaca es parecido. El DRAE dice *
> 1.     * adj. despect. coloq._ Esp._ *suramericano.* Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.
> 
> Esto es ambiguo,porque suramericano es
> *1.     * adj. Natural de Suramérica o América del Sur. U. t. c. s.
> 
> En cambio el Diccionario de Uso del Español de María Moliner no deja lugar a dudas:
> *sudaca* (desp.) adj. y n. Hispanoamericano.



Puede que me equivoque, pero me parece un error ampliar el uso de la palabra exclusaivamente por el uso que se le da en España. Si el objetivo de la traducción son españoles, tal vez se pueda usar. De otro modo me parece que es necesario buscar otra palabra


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## £20

maxikiosco said:


> Can anyone think of an English translation for _sudaca_? I have translated it as 'South American', but does _sudaca_ not have more xenephobic, even racist, connotations?


Yes, it has bad connotations associated. If you are translating documents in a legal case might be very important that you emphasize that. When translating text you can leave in italics and make a translation reference with explanations. It may be especially xenofobic if comes from a Spanish addressing a South American. It is racist in the case of a Spanish addressing 
another Spanish with South American origins. It may loose the racist-xenophobic conntotation and become more like street jargon between South Americans living in Spain nevertheless still rude.


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## matias_l

imagínense los usos peyorativos que tiene, especialmente si aquí en Argentina a veces se bromea diciendo que la palabra sudaca proviene de "*suda*mericano *ca*gón"
Pero bueno, concuerdo con lo expuesto por varios, con lo de las diferencias de connotación _según quién lo diga, __dónde lo diga y __a quién se esté dirigiendo. (_al igual que "nigger"_,_"negro", "boliviano", "judío", etc.)
En la construcción de identidades parece que no hay categorías unívocas...
saludos
matías


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## El intérprete

I'm sorry if I overlooked a post or two, but I think the term "sudaca" has to be translated in some way or explained.  You can't simply say "South American" because that label has no negative connotation.  Dame50's suggestions sound good to me:
Spic (offensive)
Beaner (This word just sounds stupid to me, and like something a Mexican-American comedian would say.)
Wetback (offensive)

I'd also add,
Damn Mexican (This can be used to refer to anyone who speaks Spanish.  It is definitely not limited to Mexicans, which is why the term is offensive.)

But I've never heard a Spaniard use the word "sudaca".  I didn't even know the word existed until I came to Chile.


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## Quillaray

My vote is for 'spic'. 


It's a tough call b/c you are translating a Spanish term into English - from one language to another - but you can't translate the cultural connotations that come with the term in this case w/o a footnote. Why? Because in most English speaking countries, the majority of people don't differentiate between a person from Central America, South America, Caribbean Islands, or even Spain! 

Witness the common use of the adjective Spanish: "I like Spanish people." When uttered here in the US, that could mean anyone from a Salvadoreño to a Brazilian to, indeed, a Spaniard. Ignorance, but there it is.

Given this, and given that you are performing an interpretation exercise and can't include footnotes or qualify the term in any way, 'spic' seems like the best catchall, offensive term to me.


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## caitoxose

aztlaniano said:


> I've been told (in Spain) that "sudaca" comes from "sud", obviously, and "acá" (over here). Also, the word "acá" is used more by Latin Americans than it is by many Spaniards.  Whether it is pejorative or not depends on the person using it, I would say. Nevertheless, I would avoid it. Anyway, it makes sense only in Spain.
> saludos



Nonsense. Sudaca is simply an abbreviated form of "Sudamericano/a" although it would be equally applied to people from Central or South America and it has a pejorative tone. However it's not the worse adjectif used in reference to people from Central and South America. "Acá" is used by people from that part of the world, Spaniards very rarely use it although you may hear it in the South of Spain as in "Vente p'acá chiquilla!" an extremely coloquial way of saying "Come here little girl!" Please note that the "little girl" could well be in her nineties and still be adressed as "Chiquilla". As I said, extremely coloquial.


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## underskies

It seems 2019 is not too late to add to a conversation like this 


El intérprete said:


> I'd also add,
> Damn Mexican





Quillaray said:


> given that you are performing an interpretation exercise and can't include footnotes or qualify the term in any way, 'spic' seems like the best catchall, offensive term to me.


There was a lot of discussion on translating the term, but yes, getting back to the point of what to do in an interpreting context - if one has these terms readily available in the brain, such as 'spic', I agree it might be equivalent, however it would really help if we had a whole sentence from Maxikiosco, plus who the speaker was and who the listeners were to know how to interpret. It all depends on that context. If one is interpreting in England/Spain, 'spic' wouldn't work at all. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
Lacking context or lacking this kind of lexicon, I absolutely love El intérprete's suggestion of adding a qualifier, and thank you because I'm going to use this technique. What a simple solution in the interpreting context and it could work for all such pejoratives. I think _damn_, _stupid_, and _dirty_ would fit. ¿Qué piensan las y los colegas?


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## boroman

underskies said:


> I think _damn_, _stupid_, and _dirty_ would fit. ¿Qué piensan las y los colegas?


 No, no son estúpidos, sucios o malditos.
El término incluye todo lo que lo rodea, como música y hasta artesanía.


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## underskies

Bueno, entonces creo que hay un gran malentendido por mi parte - pensé que por todo lo que se discute aquí que el término es peyorativo, racista, ofensivo.
Obvio que yo no pienso en lo más mínimo que sean estúpidos, sucios o malditos. Ni decir.
Me refiero a que como intérpretes y traductores tenemos que transmitir el sentido de las palabras, nos guste o no. Entonces ¿estoy mal en pensar que el término es peyorativo? Porque me pareció que quedó claro que así es.

**Edito - no quiero simplificar algo tan complicado. Algunas personas sí han dicho que para ellos/as el término no es peyorativo y que hasta algunas personas sudamericanas se han adoptado el término para referirse a ellas mismas. Bueno, la manera de traducir o interpretar esta palabra entonces depende del interlocutor, depende de quien lo diga, cómo lo diga y quien lo escuche.
Sugiero que cuando esta palabra se usa con tono ofensivo, toque traducirlo con tono ofensivo y una manera de hacerlo sería usar algún adjetivo por falta de algún término equivalente en el otro idioma.
Personalmente creo que es muy importante entender el contexto histórico de las palabras y hay que tratar de llevar este contexto en los términos que traducimos. Por ende, optaría por no decir así nomás "south american" cuando el término conlleve su tono ofensivo.


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