# Hungarian/Italian: helybenjárás



## pussimiao

hi!
 
what does "helybejárás" mean?
 
this is the sentence:

Már kérdés, hogy a jelen szintek megfelelnek-e a fejlettségünknek, milyen a konvergencia üteme és miként festenek a jövőbeni kilátásaik s az abszolút számok nem tükröznek-e inkább *helybejárást* az 1990-es helyzethez képest. 

thank you!!!


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## Orreaga

Is the context political, economic, business?  I think it's the same word as "helybe*n*járás" (the "n" can get swallowed), which is "goose-step"... the last part of the "question" (kérdés) is "whether the absoute numbers don't reflect goose-stepping compared to the situation of the 1990's" -- does this make sense to you in the broader context?  "Goose-step" could mean "conformity" but I wonder if "marching in place" wouldn't be a better translation.


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## pussimiao

thank you very much!!!

the text is about Hungarian situation after the abolition of border control between Austria and Hungary.

I understand the sense, but I cannot find the proper expression in Italian...


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## Zsanna

It is not quite the same but you may get an idea from these expressions: _marcia_/ _corsa a vuoto_ (o _in folla_). 
In any case it is the opposite of *progress*.


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## Jana337

Retromarcia? I should shut up as I do not understand Hungarian.


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## Zsanna

Non, Jana, although you are right that _retromarcia_ is the opposite of progress (in the sense of "go backwards/forwards")!  
But it allows me to explain it a bit more and hopefully by the time pussimiao's back, s/he'll get the "full picture".

The difference is that in our word the movement does not imply progress. Neither forward, nor backward. The result of "all the effort" (of moving your legs) is that you stay in the same place (so: "no progress in spite of the invested effort"), it is like an exercise soldiers do or kids during a gym lesson...

I haven't heard Orreaga's expression "goose step" yet (my English dictionary says "marking time" but then it's often not exact) but he explained it well, after all.


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## tie-break

Zsanna said:


> It is not quite the same but you may get an idea from these expressions: _marcia_/ _corsa a vuoto_ (o _in folla_).
> In any case it is the opposite of *progress*.


 
Intendi una _*corsa sul posto*_? (En français : _courir sur place_)


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## Zsanna

Almost, tie-break!  
In Hungarian you can either "walk" (marcia) or "run" (corsa) in the same place, here it is the first.


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## tie-break

Zsanna said:


> Almost, tie-break!
> In Hungarian you can either "walk" (marcia) or "run" (corsa) in the same place, here it is the first.


 
_*Camminare sul posto*_ (marcher sur place)


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## Zsanna

That looks the right one, thanks, tie-break!


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## pussimiao

So, the translation can be:


Il problema ormai è se i livelli attuali corrispondano allo sviluppo del nostro paese, quale sia il ritmo della convergenza e a che tinte rappresentiamo le prospettive future, e se i numeri assoluti non riflettano un *movimento in folle* rispetto al 1990.

I have in my mind Jennifer Beals in Flashdance, but I cannot say that Hungary is like her now...


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## Zsanna

As far as I can judge it, it's OK, just a few suggestions where I have doubts or things to add:



pussimiao said:


> So, the translation can be:
> 
> Il problema ormai è (forse, non lo so*; "E un'altra cosa" non sarebbe possibile?) se i livelli attuali corrispondano allo sviluppo del nostro paese (1), quale sia (non sarebbe possiblie mettere solo "è" qui? cosi: qual'è ) il ritmo della convergenza (2) e a che tinte rappresentiamo le prospettive future (forse piu semplice: quali sono le nostre prospettive future) (3), e se i numeri assoluti non riflettano (piuttosto) un *movimento in folle* rispetto alla situazione del 1990 (4).
> 
> I have in my mind Jennifer Beals in Flashdance, but I cannot say that Hungary is like her now...


 
*It gives the impression that the writer expresses his doubts about the things that follow but from different points of view in almost every case:
1 - whether it is true or not
2 - what it is (or will be)
3 - what those (actual) future possibilities are
4 - whether it (=no progress) is not rather the case...


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## pussimiao

thank you for your suggestions!! 

I only want to explain the reasons why I translated in this way:

1) kérdés=questione, domanda, problema

2) a che tinte rappresentiamo le prospettive future (forse piu semplice: quali sono le nostre prospettive future) (3),
there was the verb fest= dipingere, I liked the connotative sense of the verb, so I translated it as _a che tinte rappresentiamo_

3) as usual... I forgot words like _inkább_ and so on!!! 

so, the sentence may be:

Il problema ormai è se i livelli attuali corrispondano o meno allo sviluppo del nostro paese, qual é il ritmo della convergenza e a che tinte rappresentiamo le prospettive future, e se i numeri assoluti non riflettano piuttosto un *movimento in folle* rispetto alla situazione del 1990.


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## Zsanna

There is only one thing I'd like to attract your attention to and that concerns "festeni". 
You should know that "milyenek a kilátásaink" would be the normal, basic expression. The "jövőbeni" is an extra (as "kilátás" already implies the future) and "miként festenek" is an extra on the extra...
The expression is not only superfluous but even a bit lame; originally, it is a colloquial term used rather like this: "hogy fest a dolog?" which is something like: "how does it look (to you)? 
The verb was picked out from that expression and got inserted into the other that got modified, too, so you end up with a mixed "thing" that doesn't "hurt" at first sight, when you read it quickly but if you look at it closer, it turns out to be a bit stupid.

So don't try to make it sound "poetic" or "nice" or "elegant" in Italian because it is not in Hungarian (it wants to sound "natural" and "casual" ending up a mistake-sort-of a thing).


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## pussimiao

thank you for your suggestion!!! it is very difficult for me to understand these nuances of meaning... so I translate as you suggested!!!


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