# brag about and boast about



## Sun14

Hello, my friends,

Since brag and boast can all be used as transitive verb and intransitive verb, I was wondering what is the the difference between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 respectively.

1)He brags about his new car.

2)He brags his new car.

3)He boasts about his new car.

4)He boasts his new car.


----------



## owlman5

1 and 3 are right, Sun.  2 and 4 are wrong:  He brag*s* about his new car.  He boast*s* about his new car. 
"Brags" and "boasts" are synonyms.  Either word is fine in your sentence.


----------



## Greyfriar

Sorry Sun but these are all wrong.

He brags about his new car.

He boasts about his new car.


----------



## owlman5

Sun edited his post after you and I answered it, Greyfriar.  Sun corrected the conjugation of the verbs.


----------



## sdgraham

Sun14 said:


> Hello, my friends,
> 
> Since brag and boast can all be used as transitive verb and intransitive verb, I was wondering what is the the difference between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 respectively.
> 
> 1)He brags about his new car.
> 
> 2)He brags his new car.
> 
> 3)He boasts about his new car.
> 
> 4)He boasts his new car.



What makes you think that "brag" is transitive?


----------



## Sun14

owlman5 said:


> 1 and 3 are right, Sun.  2 and 4 are wrong:  He brag*s* about his new car.  He boast*s* about his new car.
> "Brags" and "boasts" are synonyms.  Either word is fine in your sentence.



Thanks for your reminding. 

How about the collocation with the relative clause? I see an example in Collins:

"He's always bragging that he's a great martial artist."

Is it incorrect to say:

"He's always bragging about that he's a great martial artist."


----------



## sdgraham

Sun14 said:


> Is it incorrect to say:
> 
> "He's always bragging about that he's a great martial artist."



Definitely

You're stuffing too many words into the sentence. 

He's always bragging about that he's a great martial artist

He's always bragging about that he's *being* a great martial artist

(assuming that "martial artist" is a valid expression)


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> What makes you think that "brag" is transitive?



The Collins Dictionary says so.


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> Definitely



Thank you. How about:

1) He brags what he bought for his girlfriend last year.

2) He brags about what he bought for his girlfriend last year.


----------



## sdgraham

Sun14 said:


> The Collins Dictionary says so.



Certainly not in this WRD version. Please be specific in your reference and not expect us to take your word for it.

Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::

*brag* /bræɡ/vb (brags, bragging, bragged)

to speak of (one's own achievements, possessions, etc) arrogantly and boastfully
n

boastful talk or behaviour, or an instance of this
something boasted of
a braggart; boaster
a card game: an old form of poker
Etymology: 13th Century: of unknown origin


----------



## Greyfriar

When you are using the verb 'brag' it is essential to  use 'about'.

'He brags about being promoted at work.


----------



## sdgraham

Sun14 said:


> Thank you. How about:
> 
> 1) He brags what he bought for his girlfriend last year. You seem to be hung up on "brag" being transitive, which it is not
> 
> 2) He brags about what he bought for his girlfriend last year.


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> Definitely
> 
> You're stuffing too many words into the sentence.
> 
> He's always bragging about that he's a great martial artist
> 
> He's always bragging about that he's *being* a great martial artist
> 
> (assuming that "martial artist" is a valid expression)



Thank you very much.


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> Certainly not in this WRD version. Please be specific in your reference and not expect us to take your word for it.
> 
> Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::
> 
> *brag* /bræɡ/vb (brags, bragging, bragged)
> 
> to speak of (one's own achievements, possessions, etc) arrogantly and boastfully
> n
> 
> boastful talk or behaviour, or an instance of this
> something boasted of
> a braggart; boaster
> a card game: an old form of poker
> Etymology: 13th Century: of unknown origin



Yes. I have read some threads and I am not sure whether it can be used as a transitive verb, but the example my dictionary gives me is:

"He's always bragging that he's a great martial artist."

This gives me the hint that it might be used as a transitive verb in some context.


----------



## Sun14

Greyfriar said:


> When you are using the verb 'brag' it is essential to  use 'about'.
> 
> 'He brags about being promoted at work.



I see. Thank you very much.


----------



## Sun14

Do you mean in this sentence "He's always bragging that he's a great martial artist.", "about" has been omitted? And originally, the sentence should include about after brag?


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> Definitely
> 
> You're stuffing too many words into the sentence.
> 
> He's always bragging about that he's a great martial artist
> 
> He's always bragging about that he's *being* a great martial artist
> 
> (assuming that "martial artist" is a valid expression)



Do you mean in this sentence "He's always bragging that he's a great martial artist.", "about" has been omitted? And originally, the sentence should include about after brag? Thus, brag is still a intransitive verb. However, I don't know why we cannot "omit" about in this sentence:

"He brags about what he bought for his girlfriend last year."


----------



## sdgraham

> "He brags about what he bought for his girlfriend last year."




Bragging *about ... * and bragging *that ... * are both intransitive usages and both are correct, but you need "about" when followed by a noun or phrase acting as a noun.

He's always bragging *about* being the greatest bull-rider of all time. 

He's always bragging *that* he's the greatest bull-rider of all time 

"about" is followed by a gerund phrase.

"that" is followed by a dependent clause.


----------



## velisarius

Your 1 and 2 only work with "brag about".

"Brag" can have a noun clause as the direct object: "He bragged_ that he had won_." 

See this explanation:
transitive verb: clause as object


----------



## sdgraham

velisarius said:


> Your 1 and 2 only work with "brag about".
> 
> "Brag" can have a noun clause as the direct object: "He bragged_ that he had won_."
> 
> See this explanation:
> *transitive verb: clause as object*



.... or if one views "that he had won" as an adverbial clause?

Taken from the thread referenced above, one would not say: "He bragged what he had won," ... no?


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> .... or if one views "that he had won" as an adverbial clause?
> 
> Taken from the thread referenced above, one would not say: "He bragged what he had won," ... no?



I am kind of confused. Maybe in China, we are all taught that what/that/who clause are all noun clauses.


----------



## Sun14

velisarius said:


> Your 1 and 2 only work with "brag about".
> 
> "Brag" can have a noun clause as the direct object: "He bragged_ that he had won_."
> 
> See this explanation:
> *transitive verb: clause as object*



Thank you very much. Does this mean it is acceptable to collocate "brag" with "noun clause" but "brag" is till a intransitive verb?


----------



## sdgraham

If it's getting a bit deep, just remember that you can brag *about* (some*thing)*  or brag *that* (some *condition*), but you cannot brag some*thing*.

Does that help?


----------



## Sun14

sdgraham said:


> If it's getting a bit deep, just remember that you can brag *about* (some*thing)*  or brag *that* (some *condition*), but you cannot brag some*thing*.
> 
> Does that help?



Thank you very much, but I do want to figure it out the difference. Would you give me some advice? Because we are all taught that what, who, that, etc can be used to introduce a noun clause which is used as a noun after a transitive verb.


----------



## Cagey

_Brag_ is not a transitive verb.  See our dictionary's definition of brag: 
brag _/bræg/_ v.,
*bragged, brag•ging.* 
to boast;
 to say or declare something in a proud way: [no object;​_always bragging about her wonderful children_. (~ + about + object)]
_He bragged that he had shot a lion_. [~ + that clause]​Source:  _WordReference Random House Learner's Dictionary of American English © 2015_​


----------



## Sun14

Cagey said:


> _Brag_ is not a transitive verb.  See our dictionary's definition of brag:
> brag _/bræg/_ v.,
> *bragged, brag•ging.* to boast;
> to say or declare something in a proud way: [no object;​_always bragging about her wonderful children_. (~ + about + object)]
> _He bragged that he had shot a lion_. [~ + that clause]​Source:  _WordReference Random House Learner's Dictionary of American English © 2015_​



I see, but I am still confused that since it is a intransitive verb, why can it collocate with a noun clause(that) while can't it collocate with another noun clause(what)?


----------



## Cagey

Both _brag_ and _boast_ are 'reporting verbs', and we use 'that' clauses after reporting verbs. 

Please see the lists on this webpage:  Random Idea English -- verb patterns. 
You are looking for the list: "Verbs which take a _that_ clause". 

This list will not tell you _why _we use _that_ clauses but not _what_ clauses.  It will show you what the pattern is.


----------



## bennymix

With all due respect, Cagey, brag, in some sentences is called transitive.   Velisarius mentioned this.
SDG should note this as well.  "you cannot brag something"

 Oxford Advanced Learners



> *brag*
> verb
> BrE /bræɡ/
> 
> ; NAmE /bræɡ/
> 
> Verb Forms
> 
> 
> [intransitive, transitive] brag (to somebody) (about/of something)
> 
> brag that… + speech (disapproving) to talk too proudly about something you own or something you have done  [[this is implied to be the transitive form-- benny mix]]
> 
> ===
> 
> He bragged to his friends about the crime.
> 
> [...]
> 
> They repeatedly bragged that one of their men was responsible for the shooting.



===

SDG you are ignoring a wide class of verbs of speaking.   Your 'adverb'  approach simply does not fly.

He said that he was tired.    "that he was tired" is a noun clause, and the object of "said."
He bragged that he was the strongest.     The same analysis applies.

This analysis is in many dictionaries.   Regarding 'say', same source



> give example                                  [transitive, no passive] to suggest or give something as an example or a possibility say something/somebody [...]say (that)… Say you lose your job: what would you do then?





===


----------



## Cagey

We use the term 'transitive' differently.


----------



## bennymix

Yes, you differ from Oxford, Cambridge, and a number of sources.   Me, quite incidentally:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/verb-patterns-with-and-without-objects

Verbs followed by a _wh_-clause as direct object 


> _Wh-_clause as direct object
> Many verbs which can be followed by a _that_-clause can also be used with a clause beginning with _who, what, when, where, which, whose, why_ or _how_ as the direct object. We call these _wh_-clauses (underlined in the examples below):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _arrange_
> _consider_
> _enquire_
> _imagine_
> _predict_
> _show_
> 
> _ask_
> _decide_
> _explain_
> _judge_
> _prove_
> _tell_








Cagey said:


> We use the term 'transitive' differently.


----------



## bennymix

What is your analysis of "He said that he was tired"?    Does it differ from "I said what he wanted"?



Cagey said:


> We use the term 'transitive' differently.


----------



## Sun14

Cagey said:


> Both _brag_ and _boast_ are 'reporting verbs', and we use 'that' clauses after reporting verbs.
> 
> Please see the lists on this webpage:  Random Idea English -- verb patterns.
> You are looking for the list: "Verbs which take a _that_ clause".
> 
> This list will not tell you _why _we use _that_ clauses but not _what_ clauses.  It will show you what the pattern is.



Thank you very much.


----------



## Sun14

bennymix said:


> What is your analysis of "He said that he was tired"?    Does it differ from "I said what he wanted"?



Do you mean I am correct at the beginning?


----------



## bennymix

My opinion, with all due respect to Cagey and others, is that with 'reporting, stating, etc.' verbs --and also 'cousins' like 'brag'--   the 'that' {or 'what' or 'how' etc.}clauses are construed as noun clauses, and thus, direct objects, though perhaps more abstract than some objects.

There being no preposition (which is mostly fatal to transitivity) cements the case.  The 'adverbial' route simply cannot bear the strain of all the examples:  "He said that he was tired "  would be analyzed as a manner of saying, a bit like,  "He said, tiredly."   However that requires some context, "I finished arguing with you" he said tiredly.   (Notice this is NOT the same as, "He said that he was finished arguing and that he was tired.")

Reinforcing the 'object' analysis is that the 'that' is often, even preferably, omitted,  "He said he was tired"  and further the relation to the sentence of the same meaning,  "He said, 'I am tired.' "   Clearly something was said.   Notice this [omission of 'that'] applies, in many cases, to 'brag' in the original post.  "He bragged he was the strongest man in the room."



Sun14 said:


> Do you mean I am correct at the beginning?


----------



## owlman5

I understand your thinking on this topic, Benny.  I also understand that Cagey and SDGraham are using "intransitive" with a different meaning that is widely used.  You can't brag a car.  "Brag" requires a preposition after it to use it with ordinary nouns.  Those two considerations are enough for many sources to list "brag" as an intransitive verb.  

The classification of "that clauses" as objects of the verb "brag" may not be that helpful for people who are trying to learn which verbs  can take a direct object and which ones must use prepositions.


----------



## Sun14

bennymix said:


> My opinion, with all due respect to Cagey and others, is that with 'reporting, stating, etc.' verbs --and also 'cousins' like 'brag'--   the 'that' {or 'what' or 'how' etc.}clauses are construed as noun clauses, and thus, direct objects, though perhaps more abstract than some objects.
> 
> There being no preposition (which is mostly fatal to transitivity) cements the case.  The 'adverbial' route simply cannot bear the strain of all the examples:  "He said that he was tired "  would be analyzed as a manner of saying, a bit like,  "He said, tiredly."   However that requires some context, "I finished arguing with you" he said tiredly.   (Notice this is NOT the same as, "He said that he was finished arguing and that he was tired.")
> 
> Reinforcing the 'object' analysis is that the 'that' is often, even preferably, omitted,  "He said he was tired"  and further the relation to the sentence of the same meaning,  "He said, 'I am tired.' "   Clearly something was said.   Notice this [omission of 'that'] applies, in many cases, to 'brag' in the original post.  "He bragged he was the strongest man in the room."



I see, Thank you very much. Let me sort out your opinions:

1) "Brag" can be used as a transitive verb.

2) "Brag" can take the object directly but need to add "about" when collocating with "what" clause?

3) When "brag" collocate with that clauses, we don't need to used preposition.

I am not sure I totally get it. I need your advice and confirm.


----------



## Sun14

owlman5 said:


> I understand your thinking on this topic, Benny.  I also understand that Cagey and SDGraham are using "intransitive" with a different meaning that is widely used.  You can't brag a car.  "Brag" requires a preposition after it to use it with ordinary nouns.  Those two considerations are enough for many sources to list "brag" as an intransitive verb.
> 
> The classification of "that clauses" as objects of the verb "brag" may not be that helpful for people who are trying to learn which verbs  can take a direct object and which ones must use prepositions.



Thank you, owlman. I am really confused by when to use preposition.


----------



## owlman5

You're welcome.

Use a preposition with ordinary nouns and noun phrases: I bragged about the car.  I boasted about my large house.

If you use a "that clause", you don't need a preposition: I bragged that I was the fastest kid in school.  They boasted that they were rich.


----------



## bennymix

Sun, here is a link,

http://www.englishgrammar.org/thatclause-noun-clause/


----------



## bennymix

1) Yes,
2) Yes, with qualifications.     Whenever you see 'about' after brag, and generally when you see a preposition after a verb [exception, phrasal verbs], the verb is INtransitive.      (See conclusion*;  the case of 'what' clauses after 'brag' seems to differ from many other 'report' verbs.)

So the qualification is  "When 'brag' collocates with a 'what'-clause, after 'about', it is NOT transitive, but INtransitive.

3)  Yes.  And add:  In such collocation, 'brag' + 'that' + clause, 'brag' is transitive.  (See OALD).

4).  Mixed.  x)He bragged about what he had done.     intransitive.    
y) He bragged how he had beaten the system.   transitive
z) He bragged that he was the strongest man in the room.   transitive.

*Conclusion:  except for the word 'what' (introducing a clause), 'brag' behaves much like 'say'.   Note that y) and z) work with 'said,' whereas x) would have to drop 'about' [and go transitive] for 'said.'

NOTE:  The above points and examples parallel Oxford Learners Dictionary (already quoted).
http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/brag_1?q=brag




Sun14 said:


> I see, Thank you very much. Let me sort out your opinions:
> 
> 1) brag can be used as a transitive verb.
> 
> 2) brag can take the object directly but need to add "about" when collocating with "what" clause?
> 
> 3) When collocate with that clauses, we don't need to used preposition.
> 
> I am not sure I totally get it. I need your advice and confirm.


----------



## bennymix

Because there are many (e.g. reporting) verbs which take 'objects' in the form of 'that' clauses, I hardly see that pointing out that 'brag' pretty much follows this pattern, can be confusing.

It may be worth noting that verbs* such as 'report' have* some flexibility.  "He reported his condition as 'wounded.' " (transitive).  He reported on his condition--'wounded'  (intransitive).   He reported that his condition was 'wounded.'  (transitive).  {My opinions.}

*corrrected






owlman5 said:


> I understand your thinking on this topic, Benny.  I also understand that [...]
> 
> The classification of "that clauses" as objects of the verb "brag" may not be that helpful for people who are trying to learn which verbs  can take a direct object and which ones must use prepositions.


----------



## Sun14

owlman5 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Use a preposition with ordinary nouns and noun phrases: I bragged about the car.  I boasted about my large house.
> 
> If you use a "that clause", you don't need a preposition: I bragged that I was the fastest kid in school.  They boasted that they were rich.



Thank you. Do you mean even this is a intransitive verb, you don't need to add a preposition after it when collocate with "that clause"?


----------



## Sun14

bennymix said:


> Because there are many (e.g. reporting) verbs which take 'objects' in the form of 'that' clauses, I hardly see that pointing out that 'brag' pretty much follows this pattern, can be confusing.
> 
> It may be worth noting that verbs such as 'report' has some flexibility.  "He reported his condition as 'wounded.' " (transitive).  He reported on his condition--'wounded'  (intransitive).   He reported that his condition was 'wounded.'  (transitive).  {My opinions.}



Thanks for your detailed explanation. It is much clearer to me.


----------



## bennymix

It's not just 'don't need to', it would be an error to say, "I bragged about that I was the fastest kid...."

Hence either, "I bragged about being the fastest kid" (intransitive), or "I bragged that I was the fastest kid" (transitive) ['that' being deletable]



Sun14 said:


> Thank you. Do you mean even this is a intransitive verb, you don't need to add a preposition after it when collocate with "that clause"?


----------

