# Yiddish: davnen (דאַוונען)



## rubidou

Hello everyone,

I've been wondering for quite a while now about the roots of the word for jewish prayer/praying: _to daven/davening_ (Yinglish) resp. דאַוונען _davnen_. Somewhere I've come across the suggestion it may be traced back to "office divin" (french: divine service), but I have no confirmation. 
Does anyone know for certain where the word comes from or else where to look for more reliable information?

Thanks in advance!
rubidou


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## origumi

See discussions here, with various proposals: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:http://mendele.commons.yale.edu/wp/category+davnen


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## rubidou

!מצוין, תודה רבה


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## ancalimon

devin, devinim  means "kinesis", "to move with a repeating pattern", "to change from one spiritual mood to another spiritual mood", "the situation of a moving thing with reference to something which is stationary", "referring to two geometrical systems which, oriented perpendicularly to each other" in Turkish.

Maybe related to wheel, turning in concept ?  DÖN (turn)?

http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=devinmek
http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=devinim

Also tepin (to stomp oneself, to hit your feet to the ground repeatedly with anger or rage)  and tapın (to worship oneself) and taparu>doğru (towards, the right, correct)


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## rubidou

This idea of moving, changing moods, the whole connotation of dynamics might be of relevance in this context (I'm reminded of the Chassidim with their at times lively and dynamic way of praying), but then again I guess it's quite improbable that any link with the Turkish language can be established. 
The only Turkish word I came across in broad Jewish context is indeed _dönme_ (sect/creed evolving from the Sabbatean movement), which seems to derive from _dönmek_.


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## elianecanspeak

"...attributed to the American Jewish studies professor Arthur Green ... the word daven means "gift" in Lithuanian.
When Jews trading in the marketplaces of Lithuania would break off their work in order to daven Minchah, the afternoon service, they would explain what they were doing by translating the word Minchah, which means "offering" or "gift," into the vernacular."

http://www.thejc.com/judaism/jewish-words/daven


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## rubidou

Interesting! I actually just looked it up on the internet (Lithuanian - English dictionary) and I found _dovana_ (=gift).
Sounds like another plausible explanation, doesn't it?

I'm also a little embarrassed I didn't know that _mincha_ means gift or offering (flower offering, as I read on Wikipedia). I always wondered where that word came from, but I guess I always associated it with מְנוּחָה.


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## shmu26

I would suggest that daven derives from devotion.


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## elianecanspeak

Usage for "daven" in Yiddish related languages include :

·       *Plattdeutsch* (Low _[ie lowland] _German) : shake; tremble

·       *Dutch* obsolete) shake, tremble, waver

·       *Modern German "toben" :* throw a fit; rollick about; rant


This could allude to the Chasidic custom of bodily movement while praying.


(NB:   When I tried to go to the site origami suggested http://www.google.com/search?q=site:http://mendele.commons.yale.edu/wp/category+davnen  it was no longer available.)


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## shmu26

The shaking/trembling idea indeed sounds very convincing, but I have a question about it: does the use of the word daven precede Hassidism, and in which areas did it first appear? Hassidism has definable geographic areas. For instance, Lithuania is non-Hassidic.


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## elianecanspeak

shumu 26 -- good questions.  I will see what I can dig up


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## elianecanspeak

Rabbi Simche Sherer (a dayan of the Beit Din, Manchester, England) writes:

According to the Admor (Rebbe) of Vishnitz, the explanation of word "daven" is as follows.  It is not German, Latin, French or Hebrew. It is an original Yiddish word.                  _The etymology of "daven"_
        [NB: as noted in previous post #9 there are possible Germanic etymologies]

Among possible etymologies already discussed on this thread Wikipedia Jewish prayer - Wikipedia  includes “from Arabic (from _diwan_, a collection of poems or prayers”

A number of sources note that “daven” is an eastern Yiddish term, while in western European areas the word used was “oren” from derivatives of the Latin “orare”

Here is a discussion from Balashon the Hebrew Language detective” Balashon - Hebrew Language Detective: daven

I am trying to find a reference to the first written usage as well.


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## shmu26

Let's think this through: if "daven" was what non-Jews called Jewish prayer, it would make a lot of sense that they called it "shaking". After all, that is what they see.
But as far as we know, it is not what non-Jews called it, it is what Jews called it. It is primarily a Yiddish word, not a German or Polish or Lithuanian word.

In Yiddish, the shaking done during prayer is called to "shuhkel". No practicing Jew would say, "I am going to shuhkel now." It would be laughable to say that. Therefore, it does not make sense that "daven" means "to shake," because Jews would not describe their own prayers that way.


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## elianecanspeak

I am also thinking of the idea of "fear and trembling before adonai" in the tanach :


“To this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit and *trembles* at My word.”   Isaiah 66:2.

.דְּבָרִי-עַל וְחָרֵד ,רוּחַ-וּנְכֵה עָנִי-אֶל--אַבִּיט  זֶה-וְאֶל


Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with *trembling*.    Tehillim 2:11

  .בִּרְעָדָה ,וְגִילוּ ;בְּיִרְאָה יְהוָה-אֶת עִבְדוּ
(NB :  translation of יִרְאָה  includes "awe, reverence ; piety," as well as fear or dread)

In this context it would make sense that daven means "to shake" or "to tremble".


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## shmu26

elianecanspeak said:


> I am also thinking of the idea of "fear and trembling before adonai" in the tanach :
> 
> 
> “To this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit and *trembles* at My word.”   Isaiah 66:2.
> 
> .דְּבָרִי-עַל וְחָרֵד ,רוּחַ-וּנְכֵה עָנִי-אֶל--אַבִּיט  זֶה-וְאֶל
> 
> 
> Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with *trembling*.    Tehillim 2:11
> 
> .בִּרְעָדָה ,וְגִילוּ ;בְּיִרְאָה יְהוָה-אֶת עִבְדוּ
> (NB :  translation of יִרְאָה  includes "awe, reverence ; piety," as well as fear or dread)
> 
> In this context it would make sense that daven means "to shake" or "to tremble".


I like it!


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