# על מה אתה מצטער



## cfu507

Hi, please help me to write the following conversation in English:

- אני מצטער
- על מה אתה מצטער / על מה יש לך להצטער​

I thought about: _what are you sorry for?_, but not sure.
Thanks


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## elroy

Yes, "What are you sorry for?" or "What are you sorry about?".

Another possibility is "What are you apologizing for?".


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## yoyo53

שלום לך cfu507
In Australia we would translate it as follows:
I* am **sorry!
What are you sorry about/You have nothing to be sorry for.*
יואב


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## yoyo53

oops,
misread the last bit    
על מה יש לך להצטער
I concur with Elroy on this one
Sorry!


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## cfu507

elroy said:


> Yes, "What are you sorry for?" or "What are you sorry about?".
> 
> Another possibility is "What are you apologizing for?".


 
Which means על מה אתה מתנצל.
Thank you Elroy and Yoyo, I have more questions:

- Would אין לך על מה להצטער _be you have nothing to apologizing for_?

- Could I also say _apologizing about?_


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## yoyo53

hi,
to my mind, *'you have nothing to apologize for'* sounds better. I don't really know why.
*BTW*- "Would אין לך על מה להצטער be you have nothing to apologizing for?"
you (singular) = apologize
you (plural)    = apologizing


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## Nunty

"Apologizing" is the gerund. You cannot say "to apologizing"; it must always be "to apologize for/about".


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## elroy

Indeed, it has to be "to apologize" (and not "to apologizing") but that doesn't have to do with singular or plural. It's just that you need the infinitive in this case.

(By the way, Nun-Translator, "apologizing" is not _always_ a gerund. It's a gerund when it's used as a noun, so in fact when it's a gerund it _can_ be used after "to": "I am not opposed to apologizing for what I did, but I don't think it would make a difference." )

Finally, like yoyo53 I prefer "apologize *for*" to "apologize about."


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## Nunty

Elroy, could you give me an example of "to apologizing"? I cannot think of one. Sorry about the gerund thing, though.

EDIT: OK, sorry. I reread and I see that you did. But I don't think it's the same sort of usage as in our example. Certainly possible, of course.


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## elroy

Indeed.  I was just trying to clarify that the term _gerund_ does not refer to the _-ing_ form in any context.  It is called a gerund when it functions as a noun, as in my example.

So my comment was just a sidenote about grammatical terminology.


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## Nunty

And I appreciate it. I'm a grammatical dummy. In any language.


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## berndf

elroy said:


> It is called a gerund when it functions as a noun, as in my example.
> 
> So my comment was just a sidenote about grammatical terminology.


 
Let my allow another side note on grammatical terminology: A gerund is a verbal noun but not every verbal noun is a gerund. So your explanation is not 100% ok.

Back to the question: "You have nothing to apologize for" is probably the most literal translation ("אין לך"). But to me, "You have no reason to apologize" sounds more natural. And besides, call me old fashioned, I still don't like sentences which end with a preposition.


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## elroy

berndf said:


> A gerund is a verbal noun but not every verbal noun is a gerund. So your explanation is not 100% ok.


 What about my explanation is not okay?  I said that the _-ing_ form is a gerund only when it functions as a noun. I did not even touch verbal nouns, let alone how they relate to gerunds. 


> Back to the question: "You have nothing to apologize for" is probably the most literal translation ("אין לך"). But to me, "You have no reason to apologize" sounds more natural.


 Your sentence is good, but there is nothing unnatural about the other one.  "You have nothing to [verb]" is a very natural and idiomatic structure in English. 


> And besides, call me old fashioned, I still don't like sentences which end with a preposition.


 That's not old-fashioned; it's just unreasonable.  But it's your prerogative to dislike such sentences. I just want to make it clear that there is nothing wrong with ending an English sentence with a preposition. (If anyone is interested in the topic, it has been discussed extensively in the English Only forum.)


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## berndf

elroy said:


> What about my explanation is not okay?  I said that the _-ing_ form is a gerund only when it functions as a noun. I did not even touch verbal nouns, let alone how they relate to gerunds.


Trying to analyse the logical structure of "It is called a gerund when it functions as a noun", I came to the conclusion "_If_ a verb form is used as a noun _then _it is a gerund" but I probably misunderstood you and you meant "_If_ an -ing form is used as noun _then_ is a gerund". There I am 100% with you. 



> I just want to make it clear that there is nothing wrong with ending an English sentence with a preposition


I wouldn't say it is wrong (as far as I know all Germanic languages have this) but if there is an idiomatic alternative I would gernerally prefer that alternative.


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## Nunty

This is probably EO fodder by now, but I think most everyone would agree that ending a sentence with a preposition is more idiotmatic than not! The old "rule" of not doing so is no longer applied rigoursly even in fairly formal written English.


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