# FR: Il était nécessaire que cela fût fait



## M2k

Apparently the imperfect subjunctive isn't used any more, but what you do in a case like this... 

Il était nécessaire que cela fût fait...


Can a native person explain to me what it sounds like when the imperfect subjunctive is used? e.g is it understood? does it just sound very old fashioned? or what? 

I noticed Le Pen using it in speech. What's going on there? 

If anyone could explain the above. It would put my mind at ease.


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## yabnek

I think it would be understood but it indeed sounds somehow weird...
For your example, we would use more simple structures such as: "il fallait le faire" or "il était nécessaire de le faire".
Hope it helps!


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## Baunilha

yabnek said:


> I think it would be understood but it indeed sounds somehow weird...
> For your example, we would use more simple structures such as: "il fallait le faire" or "il était nécessaire de le faire".
> Hope it helps!


 
indeed. It sounds horrible. The combo of "que cela f^ut fait" in the clause should be replaced by an infinitive construction. The two options in the quote are excellent.

Good luck


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## Baunilha

You can use le subjontif imparfait occasionally... But it is more common these days to use the subjonctif présent.

What's wrong with your construction? the subject of the "phrase subordonnée" is "cela." Because of this "pronom" you had to use the passive voice. The passive voice-construction ruins the phrase completely


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## Montaigne

Bien sûr !!!
Au lieu de "que vouliez vous qu'il fît contre trois ? - Qu'il mourût !"
Corneille aurait dû écrire "Que faire contre trois ? - Mourir !"
C'est tellement plus beau et plus démocratique !


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## DOM78

Plus beau, plus beau, c'est vite dit !
Et quant à la démocratie,elle n'interdit pas le bon usage du langage !
Pourquoi toujours aller à la facilité ?


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## Montaigne

DOM78
C'était bien mon propos qui était une antiphrase.
J'aurais pu achever en citant le vers suivant "ou qu'un beau désespoir alors le secourût" et proposer "ou que la déprime lui vienne en aide".
Mais le présent du subjonctif m'a paru trop audacieux.
L'humour est un plaisir même si on habite ailleurs  !


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## Oluc (Yvon)

You are perfectly correct, M2k, that Jean-Marie Le Pen is the only known man alive who still uses the subjunctive imperfect in SPOKEN French, as far as I am aware of.
But literary authors still use it in WRITTEN French as can ordinary writers for special effect if they know how, of course, and indeed in quotations like the ones cited above.

"Vous vouliez que je le lui rendisse ?" "Encore eût-il fallu que je le susse". The second subjunctive imperfect "susse" (savoir) usually causes a few giggles as it is homonymous to "suce".  In this declining mode and tense, "sucer" would be the rather awkward "suçasse"!


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## Maître Capello

Oluc (Yvon) said:


> You are perfectly correct, M2k, that Jean-Marie Le Pen is the only known man alive who still uses the subjunctive imperfect in SPOKEN French, as far as I am aware of.



You forgot me, since I do sometimes use the imperfect subjunctive in spoken French although only in the 3rd person singular…


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## DOM78

Tout à fait d'accord avec Montaigne sur les deux tableaux.
Et désolée de n'avoir pas compris que c'était de l'humour...

Sans rancune ?


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## M2k

When for instance Le Pen uses the imperfect subjunctive. Do you understand him? Does it have any connotations using the imperfect subjunctive. 

Or does it just sound clumsy. What would you prefer to say instead of the below?

_C'était dommage que Luc ne vînt pas.??
__Il voulait que je parlasse??

_


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## itka

M2k said:


> When for instance Le Pen uses the imperfect subjunctive. Do you understand him? Does it have any connotations using the imperfect subjunctive.
> *Of course *it has ! He does it on purpose, I suppose, to show that he uses the proper french language !
> *Of course*, we understand ! It just sounds old fashioned and a bit ridiculous (that's my advice, in that case, but sometimes, it adds something... if you're interested, let's continue in french...)
> Or does it just sound clumsy. What would you prefer to say instead of the below?
> 
> _C'était dommage que Luc ne vînt pas.?? C'était dommage que Luc ne vienne pas.
> __Il voulait que je parlasse?? Il voulait que je parle.
> _


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## LV4-26

I may be wrong but I do believe the people who use the imperfect subjunctive (even the 3rd person singular) in conversation, always do so with an inner smile.
Because they like the way it sounds and take pleasure from it and also because they're aware it's a bit over the top.
Or....is it only me? 

In Mr Le Pen's case, it's different. I bet he sees it as an act of resistance of some sort against the "decadence" of the French language. ;-)


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## Oluc (Yvon)

I quite agree with you, LV4-26.  I mean it's a "fait accompli" that those nostalgic traditionalists refuse to accept as if they think they can, alone, reintroduce it into spoken French the way it is perfectly used by Hispanics ...


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