# olla + -massa/-mässä



## Gavril

dinji said:


> In general "_olen +-ssä"_ could often be translated into "I am busy +-ing".   Thus _Olen seisomassa_ could also equal 'I am busy standing' (not a very idiomatic thing to  say, obviously).



Do the Finnish speakers agree with this, or is there another guideline for using this construction?

Once, I asked someone if she was going to a meeting the following day, and she answered, "Olen tulossa", which doesn't fit the "I'm busy"-pattern. However, _tulossa/menossa_ could be a special case.


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## Grumpy Old Man

I wouldn't use _busy,_ at least in most cases it seems unnecessary. _Olla +ssa/-ssä_ is very often best translated into English by simply using the continuous tenses:

_Olen kävelemässä puistossa. = I'm taking a stroll in the park._

To my mind, it is sometimes used needlessly and the resultant Finnish sentence may not meet the requirements of Kielitoimisto:

_Olen kirjoittamassa / Kirjoitan vastausta hänen pyyntöönsä. = I'm writing a reply to his request. _In this case _I'm busy writing _doesn't sound bad to my ear.

Other Finns may have other opinions. I'm looking forward to them!

GOM


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## hui

> Do the Finnish speakers agree with this, or is there another guideline for using this construction?In general "_olen +-ssä"_ could often be translated into "I am busy +-ing".   Thus _Olen seisomassa_ could also equal 'I am busy standing' (not a very idiomatic thing to  say, obviously).​


In general, I do not agree. Only when there are hints about being busy or in a hurry (EDIT or doing it right now.



> Once, I asked someone if she was going to a meeting the following day, and she answered, "Olen tulossa", which doesn't fit the "I'm busy"-pattern. However, _tulossa/menossa_ could be a special case.


Note that _tulossa/menossa_ are actually nouns (I think), while _seisomassa_ is a verb form (I think). Not that it matters in this case, though.


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## DrWatson

hui said:


> Note that _tulossa/menossa_ are actually nouns (I think), while _seisomassa_ is a verb form (I think). Not that it matters in this case, though.


True. When this _olla + -mAssA_ construction includes _tulla_, _mennä_ or _lähteä_, nouns _tulo_, _meno_ and _lähtö_ are often used instead of MA-infinitive forms, ie. _tulossa/menossa/lähdössä_

Regarding the original question, I agree with GOM.


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## Gavril

Grumpy Old Man said:


> I wouldn't use _busy,_ at least in most cases it seems unnecessary. _Olla +ssa/-ssä_ is very often best translated into English by simply using the continuous tenses:
> 
> _Olen kävelemässä puistossa. = I'm taking a stroll in the park._



I think _Kävelen puistossa_ can be translated the same way, though -- is _Olen kävelemässä _more emphatic of the fact that it's an action in progress?



> To my mind, it is sometimes used needlessly and the resultant Finnish sentence may not meet the requirements of Kielitoimisto:
> 
> _Olen kirjoittamassa / Kirjoitan vastausta hänen pyyntöönsä. = I'm writing a reply to his request. _In this case _I'm busy writing _doesn't sound bad to my ear.


Just to make sure I understand, do you mean that only _Olen kirjoittamassa_ has the nuance of "I'm busy" in this case?


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## sakvaka

_Olla _+ _III inf. inessive_ is sometimes necessary for the message to be understood. Consider this example:

1. Syön mämmiä. (*now or generally?*)
2. Olen syömässä mämmiä. 

But remember that many times it can be replaced by adding an adverb, such as _tällä hetkellä_, _juuri nyt_, or _paraikaa_ (= _parastaikaa, _contr. of "parasta aikaa"). The context can help, too.

_Syön mämmiä, älä häiritse minua!_

I don't know about the usage of "busy" in English, because we don't have a corresponding word. Why should we think about it then?  Let's just think of it in terms of continuous forms.


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## Grumpy Old Man

"I think _Kävelen puistossa_ can be translated the same way, though  -- is _Olen kävelemässä _more emphatic of the fact that it's an  action in progress?"

I agree completely with your analysis.

"Just to make sure I understand, do you mean that only _Olen  kirjoittamassa_ has the nuance of "I'm busy" in this case?"

No, not really. I just ffel inclined to think that _olen kirjoittamassa_ appears to convey an idea of being really intentionally involved in the process of writing. I am sure many others don't feel the same way. I'm not sure how to put it. I may be taking a walk and end up in a park without really indending to go there. However, if I'm writing a reply to somebody that cannot be purely incidental. It must be intentional. Therefore _I'm busy writing _doesn't sound bad to my ear. I don't know if anyone agrees with me, though. 

However one sees it, I don't think any way of phrasing it makes a lot of difference.

GOM

GOM


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## Gavril

Hello,

I ran into this construction in the following context:



> Jokereiden sarjapaikka ja osakkuussopimus liigassa ovat katkolla, koska se on siirtymässä vuoden päästä venäläisliiga KHL:ään.



"Jokerit's series position and share agreement with the league are currently in limbo, because they [are in the process of moving?] to the Russian league KHL at the end of the year."

Did I translate _on siirtymässä _correctly here? How would the meaning be different if the phrase were replaced with the simple form _siirtyy_?

Kiitos


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## Grumpy Old Man

Your translation is fine.  In actual fact, there may not be much going on regarding the Jokerit joining the KHL at this very moment, though.  Therefore, _siirtyy_ wouldn't really make a big difference and would sound equally natural.  _Siirtyy_ gives the impression that everything has been agreed upon and consequently it can be considered a fact that Jokerit won't play in SM-liiga after the next season.

As this is not a fact yet, _on siirtymässä_ is a better choice.  It implies that the process is incomplete.


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## sakvaka

Sometimes, "is (being) planned to" or "is about to" might be a more appropriate translation. What do other Finns think?

_Ylioppilastutkinto on muuttumassa sähköiseksi._
_Salainen mikrofilmi oli joutumassa venäläisten käsiin._


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## Gavril

Hi,

Another case of "olla + -massa" that I don't quite understand:



> Leijonien paras pakkipari 3-2 –voittoon päättyneessä Tshekki-ottelussa oli Sami Lepistö – Juuso Hietanen. Lepistö *oli värkkäämässä 2-2 –tasoitusmaalia.* Mika Pyörälä ohjasi hänen laukauksensa sisään.



"The Leijonat's best defensive line in the 3-2 victory over the Czech Republic was Sami Lepistö/Juuso Hietanen. Lepistö [...?] the 2-2 tying goal. Mika Pyörälä deflected his shot into the goal."

Part of the problem is that I'm not quite sure how the verb _värkätä_ should be translated here, either (based on the Googling I did, the verb's meaning seems to vary from region to region).

Auttaisitteko?

Kiitoksia paljon


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## altazure

The meaning of "värkätä" here is "tehdä", so "oli värkkäämässä" means  "oli (mukana) tekemässä". He participated in making the goal. Imaginative language usage like this is especially common in sports journalism.


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## Hakro

altazure said:


> Imaginative language usage like this is especially common in sports journalism.


I'd say that "Idiotical language usage like this is especially common in sports journalism."


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## Jyrkkä Jätkä

I think _värkätä_ in this context could be substituted with _sommitella_ (compose) or _junailla_ (engineer).
_Hän oli mukana sommittelemassa maalia.
Hän oli mukana junailemassa maalia._


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## Spongiformi

Considering _"värkätä"_ is only one degree better than _"kyhätä"_ to describe the professionalism of an act, I would say it probably wasn't an especially beautiful and stylish goal, at least in the opinion of the journalist who said that.


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## Gavril

To review what's been said so far:

1) the _olla tekemässa_-construction can mean that an action is in progress, in which case it is synonymous with _tekee, teki _etc. (in their imperfective meanings)_,_ but potentially less ambiguous (see post #6)

2) _olla tekemässä_ can also indicate that the action is about to happen, and perhaps that there are plans/preparations being made to make it happen (posts #9-10)

3) it can also be used to show that the subject is/was involved in performing an action, but wasn't the person who completed it (post #12)

4) as discussed in this thread, when the verb of _olla tekemässä_ is transitive and has a total object (as opposed to partitive object), it can only be interpreted as "about to happen", not "in the process of happening"; the same interpretation applies when the verb is intransitive but punctual (i.e. when the verb's action happens in a single moment, such as _nukahtaa_ "to fall asleep", rather than over a period of time, such as _nukkua _"to sleep, to be asleep")


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