# すみません



## twin78

I know that すみません means Excuse me, but what does すみ actually mean? From phrases like ありません I guess ません means a negation, but does すみ have an actual meaning or origin?
Thanks!

Moderator Note:
The other question is now a separate thread.


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## lammn

すみません means both "sorry" or "excuse me", depending on the context.

すみません is the negative and polite(丁寧語) form of the verb 済む（すむ）.
済む means "come to an end", "be over", "be finished" or "be satisfied".

As for why すみません, the negation of 済む means "sorry" or "excuse me", I'm not sure.
_Perhaps_ it is "sorry" that things is not yet "settled", nor does it "satisfy" one's heart.
By the same token, _perhaps_ one may need to call attention for the others (i.e. excuse me) when things are not "settled" and need help from others.
↑These are all guess. Could be totally wrong. 

Should wait for native's opinions.


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## twin78

Thanks, lammn!
Can one then use the phrase すみません to mean literally things like "I'm not done yet" in everyday situatation? For example, when a waiter tries to take away a dish you are still eating, can you say すみません?


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## Ocham

No, no. We never say すみません in that case. But when we want to say
"Are you finished with that?", もう食事は済みましたか or もうお済みですか can be
used. *もう＝already, yet


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## twin78

I see.  Thanks, Ocham!


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## samlibere

And if you are not finished with your dish, and someone tries to take it from you, just  say "なんでやねん!!”, which is a way of asking "What you doing?" (I am still hungry).
Not very polite, but sometimes you can feel that there is too much politeness in Japan. 
For instance, it's very usual to hear someone saying すみません when it's exactly the other person who should apologize.


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## Flaminius

Hi,

I tend to agree, *lammn*, with that 済みません is a recognition of an unsettled affair:


> _Perhaps_ it is "sorry" that things is not yet "settled" (...)


Expressions with 済む in sense of "to get settled" include;
済んだことだ。くよくよしてもしかたがない。
クレジットカードで、レストランの会計を済ませた。
こんなことをしでかしておいて、ちょっと謝れば済むと思うのか。

気が済む is often used as "satisfy" in sense of removing frustration:
社長は、部下の仕事も自分で確認しないと、気が済まない性格だ。
ジェットコースターに三回も乗って、やっと気が済んだ。


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## lammn

Flaminius said:


> I tend to agree, *lammn*, with that 済みません is a recognition of an unsettled affair:
> 
> Expressions with 済む in sense of "to get settled" include;
> 済んだことだ。くよくよしてもしかたがない。
> クレジットカードで、レストランの会計を済ませた。
> こんなことをしでかしておいて、ちょっと謝れば済むと思うのか。
> 
> 気が済む is often used as "satisfy" in sense of removing frustration:
> 社長は、部下の仕事も自分で確認しないと、気が済まない性格だ。
> ジェットコースターに三回も乗って、やっと気が済んだ。


 
Now (やっと) I see that 済む in sense of "to get settled" and "satisfy" take different _subjects_ and the usage is different.

It would be unimaginable if someone(Japanese in particular) yells "I am not satisfied!"(すみません) to other people. 

Thank you for the clarification!


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## Flaminius

samlibere said:


> And if you are not finished with your dish, and someone tries to take it from you, just  say "なんでやねん!!”, which is a way of asking "What you doing?" (I am still hungry).
> Not very polite, but sometimes you can feel that there is too much politeness in Japan.
> For instance, it's very usual to hear someone saying すみません when it's exactly the other person who should apologize.


While I am the first to admit with resignation that the Japanese society is over-polite, なんでやねん (why the hell) sounds too pugnacious to me.  You should note, first of all, it is a regional variety in Western Japan.  Dialectal forms, when uttered outside the normal habitat, sound harsher than one intends to.  Unless otherwise noted by original posters, the posters in JP take all questions as pertaining to the Modern Standard Japanese.

Second, we can still use a conjugation of すむ in order to hold the waiter in check.  He would ask, "もう、お済みですか" and you can reply, "いいえ、まだ済んでいません."  I assume that the "not yet finished" sense is represented by 済んでいない because the expected 済まない has taken a specialised meaning (to regret, to be sorry).


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## pdmx

samlibere said:


> For instance, it's very usual to hear someone saying すみません when it's exactly the other person who should apologize.


 
You're quite right there and this is precisely why I think すみません is so practical : you just have to say it and you can be 99% assured the other party will reply こちらからすみませんでした　(my fault), very practical indeed when you would like to get excuses from the other party (and this does not work in Western European languages as far as I noticed...)



samlibere said:


> Not very polite, but sometimes you can feel that there is too much politeness in Japan.


 
You probably mean social codes are different in Japan and you have not mastered them all yet ???


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## samlibere

I am not very fond of this Japanese extreme politeness but I guess I will have to get used to it because my girlfriend got real angry at me this week-end for using "Nandeyanen" and not being polite enough. 
Thank you then to you too (pdmx and Flaminius) for showing me the way of Japanese righteousness.

PS : Je regrette tout de même parfois un peu ma chère Seine-St-Denis et sa langue colorée, où l'on pouvait lancer des petits "Va te faire enculer" tout en restant somme toute très amical dans le ton et dans l'esprit. 
Oh je voulais revoir, ma Seine-St-Denis...


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## Flaminius

Hello pdmx,

A belated nitpick but it should be こちらこそすみませんでした.


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