# Danish: Bonden der Høster



## mloricha

Hi,  this text is written on the back of a wood carving.  I'm sure it's Danish but am having trouble making sense of online translators.  Any assistance you can offer would be hugely appreciated (I'm not sure if I've accurately transcribed the text as it's very difficult to read - the red text I'm certain is correct - so some words might be odd).  Thanks in advance.

*"Bonden Der Hoster"*
*Der findes ret aldrig saa ledent et Fro der falder i jardens* Muld,
*det skal dag ikke i* Farden do,
nun spire saa underfield,
*der saas ret aldrig et Karn i Vang,*
naar blat *Vorherre**det* vil,
*saa skal det* biere 
sin *Frugt* engang,
alt som *det* har
*krofter* til


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## mnl

Interesting challenge!

It is pretty old-fashioned language, so you probably won't get help from online translators - plus it is poetry, which doesn't help either.

I have tried to fix the language, according to what I would guess it says, but please remember it is just a guess, and I am not totally convinced. What do other people here think about this version?


"Bonden Der Høster"
Der findes ret aldrig saa lident et Frø der falder i Jordens Muld,
det skal dog ikke i Færden dø,
kun spire saa underfuld,
der saas ret aldrig et Korn i Vang,
naar blot Vorherre det vil,
saa skal det bære 
sin Frugt engang,
alt som det har
kræfter til

Any chance you could post a picture of the carving - preferably with the light from the side, so the letters stand out a bit?


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## Foygl

A small correction to mnl's suggestion:
The last line should read _krafter til_, and not _kræfter til_. _kraft_ is strength while _kræft_ is cancer.
Both are pronounced in the same way though.

It is hard to translate the text into English because it's in a very archaic and poetic language, like mnl mentioned.
An English translation would most likely lose some of the meaning and essence of the original Danish text.


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## mloricha

Thank you mnl and Foygl.  

Unfortunately, mnl, the text on the carving won't photograph.  It's written in a very light ink on rough hewn timber, and incredibly difficult to read even in strong light.  The carving itself is of Van Gogh's "Peasant and Sickle, From the Back", so I wonder whether the poem is about life on the land??

I've been told the carving is very old, so I am intrigued by the poem.  If you are able, I'd be very happy to see a version of the translation in English so I have an idea of what it's about.  Thank you again, very much.


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## mloricha

Hello again,

would this be a close translation?

The peasant who Harvests
There is no wrong way for a seed that falls in the soil's richness, 
it gives life to grow fully
here was never a right ??? in ???, 
If God wills it, it will bear its fruit even in the face of adversity


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## mloricha

a small correction (sorry if I am pestering).

I think I've found a small correction also in the line:

der saas ret aldrig et Korn i Vang,

Korn should read 'Korre' I think (disagree/argue/reprimand???)


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## mnl

First, thanks to Foygl for the correction of krafter - I didn't even know that.

I _think_ that the meaning goes something like the following, but take it with a grain of salt. The lines correspond more or less, but it is no attempt to conserve the poetry:

There is never a seed to fall in the soil of the Earth so small
that it will die on its way
but (rather) it will sprout so marvelously
that there is never a seed to be seen in the field
When only our Lord so will
then it shall eventually 
bear its fruit
within the limits
of its natural capabilities

Sorry about the last two lines  I am sure there is a better way to put it! Goes for the whole thing, too, of course.


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## mloricha

Some photos of the text.  Apologies for the poor quality.


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## mloricha

mnl said:


> First, thanks to Foygl for the correction of krafter - I didn't even know that.
> 
> I _think_ that the meaning goes something like the following, but take it with a grain of salt. The lines correspond more or less, but it is no attempt to conserve the poetry:
> 
> There is never a seed to fall in the soil of the Earth so small
> that it will die on its way
> but (rather) it will sprout so marvelously
> that there is never a seed to be seen in the field
> When only our Lord so will
> then it shall eventually
> bear its fruit
> within the limits
> of its natural capabilities
> 
> Sorry about the last two lines  I am sure there is a better way to put it! Goes for the whole thing, too, of course.




Many thanks mnl.  That makes far more sense (and is much nicer) than my version which was mostly guesswork with a total ignorance of the Danish language.  What a lovely poem!


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## Foygl

mloricha said:


> Korn should read 'Korre' I think (disagree/argue/reprimand???)


No, _korn_ is the right word. I don't even know of any such word _korre_.

I agree pretty much with the translation by mnl. It has lost some of its meaning though, but that almost always happens when translating poetry. Here is an literal translation in addition to the translation by mnl.

_"the-peasant who harvests/reaps"
there exists much never such little a seed which falls in the-earth's soil
there shall however not in movement die
only sprout so marvelous
there is-sowen much never a corn in field
when only our-lord it will
then shall it bear/carry
its fruit sometime(-in-the-future)
all which it have
strength to_

Considering the age of the poem, I'm almost sure it predates the 1830's and most likely even the beginning of the 1800's, if it is written at the same time as the things in the poem could have happened, and not if it is written as it was something which happened in the past. I base this on the fact that _Vangs _(Danish: sg. vang; pl. vange/vænger - English: field) was something you talked about while the so-called _landsbyfællesskaber _(lit. English: villagecommunity) still were in function in Denmark. In a _landsbyfællesskab_ the village was split up into several _vænger_ which were shared between the peasants of the village. It was very unproductive however, as the _vænger_ often had weird shapes and one peasant often had several _vænger_ throughout the area of the village which was not connected, and thus it was very hard and expensive to harvest. The _landsbyfællesskaber _were abolished by the government in 1773 on the background of numerous peasants who wanted better and more productive facilities for farming. The decline in _landsbyfællesskaber_ had however already started during the 1750's, but even though the decline had started in the 1750's and they were officially abolished in 1773, only 2.5% of the villages of Denmark had removed the _landsbyfællesskab_ by 1783. However, by 1830 more than 97% of all _landsbyfællesskaber _had been removed.


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## mloricha

Foygl said:


> No, _korn_ is the right word. I don't even know of any such word _korre_.
> 
> I agree pretty much with the translation by mnl. It has lost some of its meaning though, but that almost always happens when translating poetry. Here is an literal translation in addition to the translation by mnl.
> 
> _"the-peasant who harvests/reaps"
> there exists much never such little a seed which falls in the-earth's soil
> there shall however not in movement die
> only sprout so marvelous
> there is-sowen much never a corn in field
> when only our-lord it will
> then shall it bear/carry
> its fruit sometime(-in-the-future)
> all which it have
> strength to_
> 
> Considering the age of the poem, I'm almost sure it predates the 1830's and most likely even the beginning of the 1800's, if it is written at the same time as the things in the poem could have happened, and not if it is written as it was something which happened in the past. I base this on the fact that _Vangs _(Danish: sg. vang; pl. vange/vænger - English: field) was something you talked about while the so-called _landsbyfællesskaber _(lit. English: villagecommunity) still were in function in Denmark. In a _landsbyfællesskab_ the village was split up into several _vænger_ which were shared between the peasants of the village. It was very unproductive however, as the _vænger_ often had weird shapes and one peasant often had several _vænger_ throughout the area of the village which was not connected, and thus it was very hard and expensive to harvest. The _landsbyfællesskaber _were abolished by the government in 1773 on the background of numerous peasants who wanted better and more productive facilities for farming. The decline in _landsbyfællesskaber_ had however already started during the 1750's, but even though the decline had started in the 1750's and they were officially abolished in 1773, only 2.5% of the villages of Denmark had removed the _landsbyfællesskab_ by 1783. However, by 1830 more than 97% of all _landsbyfællesskaber _had been removed.



Hello Foygl.  Thank you for your post.  The literal translation helps immensely.  Your comments about the age of the poem are fascinating.  I wish I new more about the origin of the carving (I know it came from Germany most recently but that is all), and most especially about the person who wrote the poem on the carving.  Van Gogh's drawing which  inspired the carving was done in 1885 so the carving, done by "KMH" is significantly later.  I've attached an image for interest.

Thank you Foygl and mnl very kindly for your assistance.


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## Foygl

I have tried taking a look at all of the five pictures you have uploaded, but I haven't been able to get anything more out of it. I have been trying looking for the origin of the poem on the internet as well, but that didn't help either.

Maybe mnl, or eventually, some other Dane, will be able to get something more out of it.


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## mnl

It is difficult to read in the wood, but something can be gleaned, I believe. What was read as "Farden" should be "Jorden", I think, and the next line seems to begin with "men spire...". Also seems to make more sense. Then it would be:

"Bonden Der Høster"
Der findes ret aldrig saa lident et Frø 
der falder i Jordens Muld,
det skal dog ikke i Jorden dø,
men spire saa underfuld,
der saas ret aldrig et Korn i Vang,
naar blot Vorherre det vil,
saa skal det bære 
sin Frugt engang,
alt som det har
kræfter til

The only problem with that is that the word "Jorden" is repeated in two consecutive lines.


However, I still can't make much sense of the line 

"der saas ret aldrig et Korn i Vang"

and the pictures don't really contain it.

Any suggestions?


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## Sepia

Foygl said:


> A small correction to mnl's suggestion:
> The last line should read _krafter til_, and not _kræfter til_. _kraft_ is strength while _kræft_ is cancer.
> Both are pronounced in the same way though.
> 
> It is hard to translate the text into English because it's in a very archaic and poetic language, like mnl mentioned.
> An English translation would most likely lose some of the meaning and essence of the original Danish text.


 
Sorry, but I definitely don't go for that:

For one, the correct plural of "kraft" is "kræfter" - if the word "krafter" exists at all it is new or it is the pronounciation of "kræfter" as you may hear it in the western suburbs of Copenhagen, and secondly "kræft" in the meaning "cancer" doesn't have a plural.


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## Foygl

Sepia said:


> Sorry, but I definitely don't go for that:
> 
> For one, the correct plural of "kraft" is "kræfter" - if the word "krafter" exists at all it is new or it is the pronounciation of "kræfter" as you may hear it in the western suburbs of Copenhagen, and secondly "kræft" in the meaning "cancer" doesn't have a plural.


You are right, and so was he.


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## mloricha

I've had a close look at "men spire saa underfuld,".  Would "men spise saa underfuld" make any sense?


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## Foygl

No, I'm afraid it wouldn't make much sense. _at spire_ means _to sprout_, while _at spise_ means _to eat_.
By looking at your uploaded pictures, I can see that it clearly is an _r_ and not an _s_.


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## Sepia

Foygl said:


> No, I'm afraid it wouldn't make much sense. _at spire_ means _to sprout_, while _at spise_ means _to eat_.
> By looking at your uploaded pictures, I can see that it clearly is an _r_ and not an _s_.


 

... especially when we are talking about grain in the next line ...


----


By the way, I notice that the threadstarter has corrected the title of the thread - initially I actually did read it the way it was written in the first place and thought, "poor guy, the farmer".


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