# sarili



## Qcumber

What is the difference between:
1) Ang gustó kó'y ang saríling ákin. (Isagani R. Cruz, Halímaw, 1988:57)

and
2) Ang gustó kó'y ang áking saríli.
= What I want is myself.

In other words, what on earth does (1) mean?


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## Cracker Jack

1. I want what is mine. (Something that belongs to me, something I can call my own and not yours, his, hers, ours or theirs.)

2. Your translation is correct.


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## biankita

1. "Sariling akin" can be translated as what Cracker_Jack said, "what is mine". 

But I distinctly remembered that this phrase (in the form of "sariling atin") was popularized in the late 80s and 90s to promote Philippine-made products.


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## Qcumber

Cracker Jack said:


> 1. I want what is mine. (Something that belongs to me, something I can call my own and not yours, his, hers, ours or theirs.)
> 
> 2. Your translation is correct.


Thanks a lot, CJ. It's amazing how the position of saríli governs the meaning.


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## Qcumber

biankita said:


> But I distinctly remembered that this phrase (in the form of "sariling atin") was popularized in the late 80s and 90s to promote Philippine-made products.


So *saríling átin* would mean "our own".
Interesting that it became a slogan. Was it a slogan of the Marcoses' or a slogan of the Aquinos's or some other political party.
Thanks a lot, Biankita.


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## Qcumber

1) *Kung gágawâ táyo nang saríli, pápayát ang mga estranghéro! *(from a book)
= If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.

Can _nang saríli_ be fronted and transformed into_ saríli-ng_? 

2) Kung saríli táyong gágawâ, pápayát ang mga estranghéro!
= If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.


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## biankita

The sentence (in English) does not make sense to me...

Just for notes: 
*selfish *and *selfishness* can translate to "makasarili".
*foreigners... *the best word to use would be "banyaga" or "dayuhan". Though in most filipino-english dictionaries, "estranghero" is an appropriate word to say, it generally means stranger and not more specific to foreigner.


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## biankita

Qcumber said:


> So *saríling átin* would mean "our own".
> Interesting that it became a slogan. Was it a slogan of the Marcoses' or a slogan of the Aquinos's or some other political party.
> Thanks a lot, Biankita.


 
Nah... it was one of the media outlets that started promoting this to promote Pilipino-produced products (native abaca items, musical instruments and the culture in general).

If I still have my history with me, the only president who promoted patronage to Filipino-made products would be Carlos P. Garcia. I think it was around the late 50's/early 60s. Ironically, this was called the "Filipino-First Policy" which was in English. Hahaha!


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## Pinyot

_*Kung gagawa tayo nang sarili, papayat ang mga estranghero!*_

This is not really how Filipinos speak today. The sentence has a poetic feel to it, so it cannot be taken literally.

Literal translation: _*If we did things ourselves, the strangers will become thin!*_
_*Saliri *_- self
_*Makasarili *_- selfish

They are very different from each other.


*Can nang saríli be fronted and transformed into saríli-ng?

*No, it can't.

_*nang *_- by
_*ng *_- of
_*na *_- that or that is

Nang:

Tagalog - _Kung gagawa *tayo nang sarili*_
English - _If we *make by ourselves*_

Ng:

Tagalog - _Pagkain ng tao_
Literal English - _Food of man or human food_

Na:

Na is used for Tagalog words that end with consonants other than n.

Tagalog - *Aklat na makapal* or_ *makapal na aklat*_
English - *Book that is thick* or_ *thick book*_

Ng is added to Tagalog words that end with vowels.

Tagalog - *Paang maliit*
English - _*Foot that is small* _or_ *small foot*_

Only a g is added to Tagalog words that end with an n.

Tagalog - *Balong malalim*
English - _*Well that is deep* _or_ *deep well*_

In cases where the *adjective ends with a vowel* and the *noun ends with a consonant other than n*, the adjective and noun can change places.

noun - na - adjective

adjective - na/ng/g - noun

Tagalog -* Aklat na malaki - malaki na aklat - malaking aklat*
English - *Book that is big - big book

*Hope this helps!


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## Qcumber

biankita said:


> The sentence (in English) does not make sense to me...


How would you translate the Tagalog sentence I quoted?


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## Qcumber

Pinyot said:


> *Can nang saríli be fronted and transformed into saríli-ng? *No, it can't.


What about *mulî-ng > nang mulî* ?
e.g.
1) *Mulî *siyá*ng* nagsalitâ. = He spoke again.
2) Nagsalitâ siyá *nang mulî*. = He spoke again.


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## Pinyot

Literal:_*
If we did things ourselves, the strangers will become thin!

*_Proper:_*
If we did things ourselves, the foreigners will not gain anything!
*_or_*If we made things by ourselves, the foreigners will not gain(from us)!


Muli siyang nagsalita *_- siyang is the contracted form of siya na.

Muli siya na nagsalita
Literal: Again he/she has spoken

Contracted: _*Muli siyang nagsalita *_(correct)

_*Nagsalita siya nang muli*_ - nang is misused here. Na is the appropriate preposition.

Nagsalita siya na muliLiteral: Spoke he/she has again

Contracted: _*Nagsalita siyang muli*_ (correct)


Hope this helps!


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## biankita

Qcumber said:


> 1) *Kung gágawâ táyo nang saríli, pápayát ang mga estranghéro! *(from a book)
> = If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.


 

There are many ways to translate this...

1. Kung tayo ay magiging makasarili, mangangayat ang mga dayuhan. ---> "If we are going to be selfish, foreigners would thin out."

2. Kung tayo ay magtratrabaho (gagawa ng bagay) para sa makasariling hangarin, mgangangayat ang mga dayuhan. ---> If we work for selfish reasons, foreigners would thin out."

There's actually a lot of ways to say this... 

*papayat *and *lose weight* are literal translations of each other. *I agree with Pinoyot *that if taken figuratively, it may mean, not gain anything. And based on the statement, it seems to be leaning towards a more figurative statement.


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## Qcumber

biankita said:


> There are many ways to translate this...
> 1. Kung tayo ay magiging makasarili, mangangayat ang mga dayuhan. ---> "If we are going to be selfish, foreigners would thin out."
> 2. Kung tayo ay magtratrabaho (gagawa ng bagay) para sa makasariling hangarin, mgangangayat ang mga dayuhan. ---> If we work for selfish reasons, foreigners would thin out."


 
Sorry Biankita, I was asking you how you would translate the Tagalog sentence into English, not my English sentence into Tagalog, although this is useful, too, for comparison.

Incidentally, this Tagalog sentence is taken from a Tagalog novel written in the 1920s, i.e. during the US colonial period. It is a remark by a young engineer who contends Filipinos do no work for themselves, but for foreigners.

From what you say, my translation is wrong.
So, what how would you translate "Kung gágawâ táyo nang saríli, pápayát ang mga estranghéro!" into English?


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## Qcumber

biankita said:


> 1. Kung tayo ay magiging makasarili, *mangangayat* ang mga dayuhan. 2. Kung tayo ay magtratrabaho (gagawa ng bagay) para sa makasariling hangarin, *mgangangayat* ang mga dayuhan.


 
1) You wrote *mangangayat*. What is the root of this verbal form?

2) You wrote mgangangayat. Ditto + what does the first syllable* mga-* mean????


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## epistolario

Pinyot said:


> Literal:_*
> If we did things ourselves, the strangers will become thin!
> 
> *_Proper:_*
> If we did things ourselves, the foreigners will not gain anything!
> *_or_*If we made things by ourselves, the foreigners will not gain(from us)!
> *_



I agree with Pinyot that it cannot be translated literally.

Generally, Filipinos still have this colonial mentality that they patronize anything that is imported. They still have this mindset that anything that is locally manufactured is inferior. 

That foreigners _will grow thin_ implies that they will not earn anymore from us. 

To answer Qcumber's question: 

_If we make things on our own, foreigners will not earn or gain anything from us [anymore]. 

If we manufacture our own products, ....  _


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## KayBob

Qcumber said:


> 1) You wrote *mangangayat*. What is the root of this verbal form?
> 
> 2) You wrote mgangangayat. Ditto + what does the first syllable* mga-* mean????




2) It must have been a typo and was meant to be mangagayat

1) the root is also payat. It's a verb conjugation using mang. It's a little relatively complicated (in conjugation as well as what it means), and in my opinion the hardest to explain and understand. It's changes differently depending on the first letter of the word, but it seems (from my opinion) to just make it easier to say, i.e. bili or pili -> mamili (that one often confused me, but they're both used.) which is easier to say than mangbili or mangpili.
Perhaps others here would be able to offer a better explanation of the conjugation and the meaning.


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## kios_01

Qcumber said:


> From what you say, my translation is wrong.
> So, what how would you translate "Kung gágawâ táyo nang saríli, pápayát ang mga estranghéro!" into English?


 
The first part doesn't make much sense (given that the context was unknown to me when I first read it). To me, it meant something like:

*If we make a self...*
_OR_
*If we do (things) through self...*

It lacks certain words. If you are trying to say:
*If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.*

You could say:
*Kung gágawà táyo pára sa saríli nátin lámang, pápayat ang mga dayúhan/banyágà.*

Note 1: I used "dayuhan"/"banyaga" because those are the closest words we got for "foreigners." Still doesn't convey the meaning though. Me, I would rephrase it "ang mga nása ibáng bansâ."

Note 2: "Estranghero" came from the Spanish "extrangero," the word for "foreigners." I guess "estranghero" back then still had the original Spanish meaning.


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## Qcumber

KayBob said:


> 2) 1) the root is also payat. It's a verb conjugation using mang. It's a little relatively complicated (in conjugation as well as what it means), and in my opinion the hardest to explain and understand. It's changes differently depending on the first letter of the word, but it seems (from my opinion) to just make it easier to say, i.e. bili or pili -> mamili (that one often confused me, but they're both used.) which is easier to say than mangbili or mangpili.


I am afraid you should revise your mang- verbs and their conjugation. Thanks a lot, anyway.


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## Qcumber

kios_01 said:


> The first part doesn't make much sense (given that the context was unknown to me when I first read it). To me, it meant something like:
> 
> *If we make a self...*
> _OR_
> *If we do (things) through self...*
> 
> It lacks certain words. If you are trying to say:
> *If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.*
> 
> You could say:
> *Kung gágawà táyo pára sa saríli nátin lámang, pápayat ang mga dayúhan/banyágà.*
> 
> Note 1: I used "dayuhan"/"banyaga" because those are the closest words we got for "foreigners." Still doesn't convey the meaning though. Me, I would rephrase it "ang mga nása ibáng bansâ."
> 
> Note 2: "Estranghero" came from the Spanish "extrangero," the word for "foreigners." I guess "estranghero" back then still had the original Spanish meaning.


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## Qcumber

kios_01 said:


> *Kung gágawà táyo pára sa saríli nátin lámang, pápayat ang mga dayúhan/banyágà.*


Your responses reveal, once more and among many other forumites', how difficult it is now for many Tagalog speakers to understand early 20th-century Tagalog texts. Yet only about 8 decades have elapsed.
For me, a foreigner, this phenomenon is both exciting and puzzling. 
Thanks a lot for your efforts to explain me how things are said and perceived nowadays.


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## perfavore

KayBob said:


> 2) It must have been a typo and was meant to be mangagayat sorry, this is not a valid Tagàlog word.
> 
> 1) the root is also payat. It's a verb conjugation using mang. It's a little relatively complicated (in conjugation as well as what it means), and in my opinion the hardest to explain and understand. It's changes differently depending on the first letter of the word, but it seems (from my opinion) to just make it easier to say, i.e. bili or pili -> mamili (that one often confused me, but they're both used.) which is easier to say than mangbili or mangpili. sorry again, these are wrong conjugations
> Perhaps others here would be able to offer a better explanation of the conjugation and the meaning.


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## perfavore

Qcumber said:


> 1) *Kung gágawâ táyo nang saríli, pápayát ang mga estranghéro! *(from a book) Kàhit na gàling pa itò sa isàng aklàt, malakì ang pagdudùda ko na hindì tùnay na Tagàlog ang sumùlat nito. Unang-ùna, malì ang pagkakàgawà ng pangungùsap. Pangalawà, bakit estranghero at hindì banyàga o dayùhan ang ginàmit?
> = If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.
> 
> Can _nang saríli_ be fronted and transformed into_ saríli-ng_?
> 
> 2) Kung saríli táyong gágawâ, pápayát ang mga estranghéro!
> = If we did things selfishly, foreigners would lose weight.


 


Qcumber said:


> Your responses reveal, once more and among many other forumites', how difficult it is now for many Tagalog speakers to understand early 20th-century Tagalog texts. Yet only about 8 decades have elapsed. It wouldn't be as difficult if we could verify the origins of the authors. There is so much language regionalism in the Philippines with each region trying to come up with their own version of Tagàlog. My regional friends still do it up to this day.
> For me, a foreigner, this phenomenon is both exciting and puzzling.
> Thanks a lot for your efforts to explain me how things are said and perceived nowadays.


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## Qcumber

Perfavore, from your reply, it now dawns upon me Tagalog authors write in provincial varieties of Tagalog. 
The classical authors I use are Lázaro FRANCISCO and Amado HERNANDEZ, both from Bulacan, that was presented to me as the cradle of the Tagalog language. They have different styles, but both use the same Tagalog.


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## perfavore

Hi Qcumber, 

Your analysis is correct. Bulacàn is known for using archaic forms of Tagàlog up to the present time. I believe it's passed on from generation to generation.


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