# ampersand (&)



## Karlaina

Hola forer@s:

Quisiera saber si hay buena manera de referirme al signo que en inglés llamamos _ampersand. _Vi en otros hilos que el símbolo significa "et" en español, pero todavía no me queda claro cómo referirme al símbolo verbalmente.

*& - ¿the ampersand = el símbolo et?*

Les agradezco mucho!  ​


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## lapot

No es un símbolo que utilicemos mucho, entonces es difícil saber exactamente como la gente se refiere a él. Pero lo que he escuchado y como yo me refiero a él, siempre es '*ampersand*'. Parece que también se conoce como 'et', pero yo utilizaría '*ampersand'*. Creo que todo el mundo te entenderá así.

Mi explicación es válida para castellano de España, no sé como lo utilizarán nuestros amigos de Sudamérica 
¡Saludos!


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## Oldy Nuts

La Real Academia lo llama _et_:

http://lema.rae.es/dpd/?key=símbolo & , ir a SÍMBOLO y luego a Apéndice 4.

y aquí aparece un enlace a una discusión sobre el tema:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2292478&highlight=signo+&amp;


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## Karlaina

*lapot*, 

Muchas gracias. Así que usted usa el término inglés. ¿Diría usted *el* ampersand?


*Oldy Nuts*, 

Gracias por los enlaces. La segunda no la había visto y me sirvió mucho. 

Aunque vi antes que la RAE lo llama _et_, no entendio si debiera referirme a él como *
- **el *_et_
- *la* _et_
- *el símbolo* _et_ 
- o simplemente _et

_ Siento mucho mi falta de entendimiento.  ¡Gracias por su paciencia!


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## Oldy Nuts

Como dijo lapot, no es un símbolo que se use mucho en español. Y lo que dice la RAE no siempre concuerda con lo que se usa en la práctica. Por tanto, mi sugerencia es: si quieres respetar lo que dice la RAE y además quieres que alguien te entienda, lo mejor sería decir _el símbolo et_. Y es posible que te entienda más gente si dices _el (símbolo) ampersand_. Claro que si lo que deseas es leer en palabras una expresión como _madres & padres_, lo único cuerdo es decir _madres *y* padres_.


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## lapot

Hola de nuevo Karlaina. Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con Oldy Nuts en todo. Yo diría:

- *El* símbolo ampersand.
- *El *ampersand. (más informal)

Si al final lo vas a llamar 'et':

- *El* símbolo _et_.
- *El* _et_. (más informal)

Si tienes alguna duda más, estaremos encantados de poder ayudarte. Saludos.


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## Karlaina

Muchísimas gracias a ambos.  

Ya me queda más claro.


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## Paper&Ink

Hello all,

I am setting some type and I am wondering if it is appropriate to use an ampersand (&) in Spanish? If so, what is that character called? 

In English, I think "&" was originally an abbreviation of "et" (for "and") and since "and" ("y") in Spanish is so short, I imagine that no abbreviation is needed. 

Let me know your opinion!

Thank you!


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## Moritzchen

ampersand - grammar
ampersand (símbolo "&")
and / & (ampersand symbol) - grammar


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## Paper&Ink

But would you think it was odd to see it in a broadside/art print?


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## Moritzchen

I wouldn't. But let's see what others who live in Spanish speaking countries have to say.


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## UZIKATKILLKILL

&=et en español


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## Paper&Ink

UZIKATKILLKILL, would it seem weird to see an & in a poster in argentina?


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## Moritzchen

I don't think it would in Argentina. 
I remember Thompson & Williams and Gath & Chaves.


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## runacacha

Ampersand & is not widely used in Spanish as it is in English. Nevertheless, some people like to use it because it gives them "caché" (?). Some spanish speaking people will not understand what it means, but most will, mainly because of the position within a phrase.


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## Gabriel

In Argentina we are used to it. It's not normally used, but many foreign companies and brands have it (example Johnson & son, Black & Decker) and some local brands use it too. Many local brands are in English, but even some that aren't use it too. Examples:
Mimo & co.
Nac & pop (notoriously, this last one means Nacional y Popular)


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## Paper&Ink

thanks gabriel, runacacha, moritzchen, & uzikatkillkill. Any more opinions?


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## Gabriel

What do you want to do more precisely?
What are "setting some type" and "broadside"?
What's your target audience an intention?

"Nac & pop" is a very low target fast food chain (way below Mcdonalds), and the & looks very weird there, both because of the target and because of the name, but I guess they put it there exactly because of that, a sort of ironing.

The "&" would not be odd by itself, but depending on the context.
Putting the & will give it a "foreign" or "exclusive" touch, or a weird one if the context doesn't look foreign or exclusive too.

For example: "Milanesa & ensalada mixta" looks ridiculous. "Restó & winnery" or "Tú & yo" (aimed at an exclusive target or trying to give such an image) wouldn't.


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## sopdit

Gabriel said:


> The "&" would not be odd by itself, but depending on the context.
> Putting the & will give it a "foreign" or "exclusive" touch, or a weird one if the context doesn't look foreign or exclusive too.
> 
> For example: "Milanesa & ensalada mixta" looks ridiculous. "Restó & winnery" or "Tú & yo" (aimed at an exclusive target or trying to give such an image) wouldn't.



Completely agree with Gabriel.

In Spain it wouldn't be awkward at all if you're using it in branding, advertising or artwork. In example, www.paginasamarillas.es lists over 16000 local companies containing & in its name. As for the rest, it's simply not used.


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## Paper&Ink

Hi Gabriel!
setting type=composición de tipos móviles (a veces "tipografía manual")
broadside=the dictionary gives "volante" (in a propaganda context). In the context of fine press, a broadside is a high-end poster, usually printed in a limited number and signed by the printer. Personally, I feel that the term "broadside" is usually applied to work that centers on type (rather than an image).
For example, these editioned posters about the 2012 Tour de France were referred to as "broadsides" in their kickstarter campaign for online funding: http://leadgraffiti.com/news/tour-de-lead-graffiti-2012/

Given what you and sopdit say, I think it will be better NOT to use an ampersand in the piece I am working on. The "&" would well in the layout, but the text is a Spanish proverb. I think it will be best to stick with a more conventional look. In English, I wouldn't hesitate to substitute an ampersand ... so glad to have these forums!


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## Gabriel

Thanks for the explanation.
Would you share the proverb with us? Just out of curiosity.


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## SolAguila

Hola,
"&" is frequently used in Spanish while programmers code but I think it is not used so frequently to replace "and".


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## blasita

Moritzchen said:


> I wouldn't. But let's see what others who live in Spanish speaking countries have to say.



I wouldn't use it either.

Definitely not if the text is a Spanish proverb. I agree with the foreros; I would do it only in proper names if this symbol is part of the original or also when quoting a text in English.

_&_ represents the conjunction _and_, but we have _y_ (same length and belongs to our language) and I think that the use of _&_ is not necessary.

Saludos.


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## UZIKATKILLKILL

Paper&Ink said:


> UZIKATKILLKILL, would it seem weird to see an & in a poster in argentina?


No para nada raro, se usa mucho, principalmente para sociedades de personas pero  inclusive para asociar conceptos en un título Ej. Peces & redes
Se sabe que el origen proviene del Inglés como muchas palabras que se anexan de ese idioma.


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## CHILEGRINGO

The use of & is becoming more and more common here in Chile.

ChileGringo


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## Oldy Nuts

CHILEGRINGO said:


> The use of & is becoming more and more common here in Chile.
> 
> ChileGringo



Not sure about this. Nicanor Parra uses the symbol, but...


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## Alisterio

I hardly ever see the ampersand used in Mexico (except in proper names of brands or products from the English-speaking world, for example) and, to my mind, it's a bit pointless in Spanish. The reason it's used in languages like English or French is that it abbreviates the words 'and' or 'et' to a single character, but of course the Spanish word 'y' is already just one character long. It would look very weird to me to see a sign saying "tacos & tortas" or "mujeres & niños".


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## Oldy Nuts

Or "verduras & frutas" around here...


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## BrooklynBoy

Gabriel said:


> "Nac & pop" is a very low target fast food chain (way below Mcdonalds), and the & looks very weird there, both because of the target and because of the name, but I guess they put it there exactly because of that, a sort of *ironing*.



Debes querer "irony", no?


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## Gabriel

BrooklynBoy said:


> Debes querer decir "irony", no?



Si tú lo dices, seguramente debo haber querido eso.
Mi intento no fue decir "una suerte de ironía" sino "una forma de ironizar". Pero parece que no me salió bien...


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## Silvia Dee

In spanish is not used on daily basis, in fact it is known as a foreign simbol introduced in our language. We don't use it cause, as you've already realice, "y" is so sort that there's no need to cut it short. Talking about that, spanish is not a language that uses "abrebiatures" often, but acronyms. You'll have to learn the diferences between castellano (spanish-spain) and español (Latinoamérica) they have been influenced by north América and asumed american says and terms


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## Silvia Dee

Disculpa uzikatkillkill pero es castellano si es raro. Curiosamente fue muy usado durante una época por empresas que querían dar "cache" a su nombre adoptando un "formato americano", también en poco frecuente nombrar a una empresa con los apellidos de los socios, con lo que es totalmente ajeno al idioma. Se utiliza comúnmente en el corazón típico de Marcos & María, que también absorbimos de la cultura americana porque en España es típico el corazón con una flecha. Os comento que a día de hoy una empresa sería se caracteriza por utilizar un castellano correcto, sin abreviaturas ni extranjerismos y se deja la utilización de esas expresiones y símbolos para ámbitos menos formales, ejemplo: empresa sería: "nuestros formadores, basándose en una gran experiencia adquirida con el paso de los años, le facilitarán las herramientas necesarias para sacar el máximo rendimiento de su negocio" empresa "moderna": nuestros coachers les ayudarán a reconocer sus habilidades (de: habilities inglés) y maximizar el "input"de su empresa basándose en la filosofía: believe & achieve"


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## Moritzchen

Gabriel said:


> ...Mi intento no fue decir "... "una forma de ironizar"...


Nada, te faltó el "zi" nada más: ironizing.


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## Gabriel

¡Muchas gracias!


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