# Entrepreneur / Businessman



## Włoskipolak 72

Hi everyone !

A *businessman* is a person who runs the business, undertaking an unoriginal business idea.  On the contrary, an *entrepreneur* is someone who first initiates a product or business idea and thus the leader of that in the market.
What are the various terms in your language ?

Polish 

entrepreneur = przedsiębiorca [pš*e*tʹśẽmbʹi ̯*o*rca]

enterprise , business = przedsiębiorstwo , firma.

entrepreneurship = przedsiębiorczość

private entrepreneur = prywaciarz
(small business owner)

The word ''przedsiębiorstwo''  comes from the 18th century verb ''przedsiębrać'' 'to undertake' (from 'to take before oneself') meaning 'to intend, plan, choose, resolve, attempt to do something'.
Wyraz ‚*przedsiębiorstwo*’ pochodzi od XVIII wiecznego czasownika „*przedsiębrać*” (od ‘brać przed siebie’) w znaczeniu ‘zamierzać, planować, wybierać, postanawiać, próbować coś zrobić.


businessman = człowiek interesu (business person) or simply biznesmen.


----------



## Yendred

Since _entrepreneur _is a borrowing from French, we have the same word:
_entrepreneur_, or more commonly _chef d'entreprise_
(I'm discovering that English also borrowed the feminine version _entrepreneuse_!)

_businessman = homme d'affaires _(seems to be a loan translation from English, I'm not sure whether it comes directly from English)

_enterprise, business = entreprise _[ɑ̃.tʁə.pʁiz]_, société, compagnie, affaire, (colloquially) boîte_


----------



## apmoy70

Greek:

*«Επιχειρηματίας»* [e̞piçiɾimaˈt̠i.as̠] (masc. and fem.), a MoGr construction (1821), calqued for the Fr. _entrepreneur_, from the pre-existinɡ ancient verb *«ἐπιχειρέω/ἐπιχειρῶ» ĕpĭkʰeiréō* (uncontracted)/*ĕpĭkʰeirô* (contracted) --> lit. _to put one's hand to a work_, metaph. _to set to work, attempt, endeavour, attack, arɡue_. In MoGr the v. *«επιχειρώ»* [e̞piçiˈɾo̞] means _to deal with a problem, undertake a task_; it's a compound = prefix & preposition *«ἐπί» ĕpí* + fem. *«χείρ» kʰeír*, the ancient word for _hand_.

_Business_ is *«επιχείρηση»* [e̞piˈçiɾis̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«ἐπιχείρησις» ĕpĭkʰeírēsis* --> _an attempt, dialectical reasoninɡ_.

-_Company_ (a group of people who work together professionally) is *«Εταιρεία»* [e̞t̠e̞ˈɾi.a] (fem.) < Classical fem. noun *«ἑταιρ(ε)ίᾱ» hĕtair(e)íā* --> _comradership, friendship, association, brotherhood, political society_ < Classical masc. *«ἑταῖρος» hĕtaîrŏs* --> _comrade, companion_, earlier form *«ἕταρος» hétărŏs* (idem), from the PIE reflexive *se- > *s(u)et-o- cf. Lith. svečias, _ɡuest_.

-_Company_ (military unit) is *«Λόχος»* [ˈlo̞xo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«λόχος» lókʰŏs* --> _ambuscade, a body of men for ambush, armed band, company_, an o-ɡrade deverbative from the Classical deponent v. *«λέχομαι» lékʰŏmai*.

-_Company_ (an organization that produces theatrical performances) is *«Θίασος»* [ˈθi.as̠o̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«θίασος» tʰíăsŏs* --> _Bacchic revel, reliɡious ɡuild_ (etymoloɡy unclear).


----------



## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh*

Reminds me of the story of a UK Government Minister who mocked the Welsh for not being _entrepreneurs_ because they didn't have a word for it in their language. He was subsequently sufficiently red faced when a member of the audience he was presenting to asked him what the English word was ...

Anyhow, if we do want the word, we follow the French - but write it in _italics_. (I guess we don't go the full Clouseau and pronounce it as they do in downtown La Défense ...)

The equivalent of 'businessman' is from English > *dyn busnes* (equivalent word order to _homme d'affaires_). I presume there are *merched busnes* amongst the females of the species but have yet to encounter one (in a dictionary or in real life.)


----------



## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> (I guess we don't go the full Clouseau and pronounce it as they do in downtown La Défense ...)



Prononciation de entrepreneur : Comment prononcer entrepreneur en Français
Prononciation de entrepreneuse : Comment prononcer entrepreneuse en Français
There you are like a duck to water in La Défense 



Welsh_Sion said:


> I presume there are *merched busnes* amongst the females of the species but have yet to encounter one (in a dictionary or in real life.)


_femme d'affaires _sounds natural in French


----------



## Yendred

apmoy70 said:


> *«χείρ» kʰeír*, the ancient word for _hand_


It has given all compounds with _chir-, _like _chiropractor _(the person who treats body disorders by manipulating the body with his hands), _chiromancy_ (the process of telling fortunes by the configuration of a person's hand), etc.

And French _chirurgien_, Italian _chirurgo_, German _Chirurg_, etc. (= _surgeon_), the medical practitioner who treats injuries by manual procedures.


----------



## Welsh_Sion

Ditto for Welsh: _llawfeddyg_ < llaw 'hand' + meddyg < medicus 'doctor') = surgeon


----------



## Penyafort

Both words in Catalan derive from the verb _emprendre _"to undertake" and its noun _empresa _(from the participle), with different suffixes.

entrepreneur
= *emprenedor *(m.), *emprenedora *(f.)

businessman/businesswoman
= *empresari *(m), *empresària *(f.)
= *home de negocis* (m.), *dona de negocis* (f.) --This calque is rather used for someone dedicated to business in general, rather than specifically owning one business, but can be quite synonymous in many contexts.


business
= *empresa* [p.p. from _emprendre_: emprès (m), empresa (f)] --Specially as a synonym for company
= *negoci *[< Latin negotium, meaning 'not leisure', nec + otium] --A business or business in general


----------



## Awwal12

Russian has calqued French _entrepreneur_ as предприниматель (predprinimátel', lit. "undertaker", or, even more literally,  ~"foretotaker"), but it has basically lost most associations with risks or innovativeness, being generally synonymous to the more recent loan бизнесмен (biznesmén). There is no real counterpart for _entrepreneur_ in Russian.


----------



## Nanon

Welsh_Sion said:


> *Cymraeg/Welsh*
> 
> Reminds me of the story of a UK Government Minister who mocked the Welsh for not being _entrepreneurs_ because they didn't have a word for it in their language. He was subsequently sufficiently red faced when a member of the audience he was presenting to asked him what the English word was ...


That reminds me of a famous Bushism (not sure if fake or real, yet plausible): “The problem with the French is that they don’t have a word for entrepreneur.”


----------



## Włoskipolak 72

Yendred said:


> Since _entrepreneur _is a borrowing from French, we have the same word:
> _entrepreneur_, or more commonly _chef d'entreprise_
> *(I'm discovering that English also borrowed the feminine version entrepreneuse!)*
> 
> _businessman = homme d'affaires _(seems to be a loan translation from English, I'm not sure whether it comes directly from English)
> 
> _enterprise, business = entreprise _[ɑ̃.tʁə.pʁiz]_, société, compagnie, affaire, (colloquially) boîte_


Thanks !
I have never heard anyone say in Polish  _"przedsiębiorczyni"......!?? _ .., ''entrepreneuse''.. , imprenditrice in Italian , or imprenditore.
 W_łaścicielka firmy.._could also be an entrepreneuse..!?


----------



## Yendred

The current social trend is to feminize words to make greater space for women, in domains that are traditionally occupied by men. I don't know if other countries also follow this trend.


----------



## Włoskipolak 72

apmoy70 said:


> Greek:
> 
> *«Επιχειρηματίας»* [e̞piçiɾimaˈt̠i.as̠] (masc. and fem.), a MoGr construction (1821), calqued for the Fr. _entrepreneur_, from the pre-existinɡ ancient verb *«ἐπιχειρέω/ἐπιχειρῶ» ĕpĭkʰeiréō* (uncontracted)/*ĕpĭkʰeirô* (contracted) --> lit. _to put one's hand to a work_, metaph. _to set to work, attempt, endeavour, attack, arɡue_. In MoGr the v. *«επιχειρώ»* [e̞piçiˈɾo̞] means _to deal with a problem, undertake a task_; it's a compound = prefix & preposition *«ἐπί» ĕpí* + fem. *«χείρ» kʰeír*, the ancient word for _hand_.
> 
> _Business_ is *«επιχείρηση»* [e̞piˈçiɾis̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«ἐπιχείρησις» ĕpĭkʰeírēsis* --> _an attempt, dialectical reasoninɡ_.
> 
> -_Company_ (a group of people who work together professionally) is *«Εταιρεία»* [e̞t̠e̞ˈɾi.a] (fem.) < Classical fem. noun *«ἑταιρ(ε)ίᾱ» hĕtair(e)íā* --> _comradership, friendship, association, brotherhood, political society_ < Classical masc. *«ἑταῖρος» hĕtaîrŏs* --> _comrade, companion_, earlier form *«ἕταρος» hétărŏs* (idem), from the PIE reflexive *se- > *s(u)et-o- cf. Lith. svečias, _ɡuest_.
> 
> -_Company_ (military unit) is *«Λόχος»* [ˈlo̞xo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«λόχος» lókʰŏs* --> _ambuscade, a body of men for ambush, armed band, company_, an o-ɡrade deverbative from the Classical deponent v. *«λέχομαι» lékʰŏmai*.
> 
> -_Company_ (an organization that produces theatrical performances) is *«Θίασος»* [ˈθi.as̠o̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«θίασος» tʰíăsŏs* --> _Bacchic revel, reliɡious ɡuild_ (etymoloɡy unclear).


Thanks !

-_Company_ (military unit) is *«Λόχος»* [ˈlo̞xo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«λόχος» lókʰŏs* --> _ambuscade, a body of men for ambush, armed band, company_, an o-ɡrade deverbative from the Classical deponent v.

*«λέχομαι» lékʰŏmai.*
It's atcually quite intersting from Proto-Indo-European _**legʰ*-_. Cognates include Old Church Slavonic _*лежати*_ (ležati), Polish *leżeć*, Old Irish _*lige*_, and Old English _*licgan*_ (English _*lie*_).


----------



## Welsh_Sion

From @Yendred - I don't know if other countries also follow this trend.

_____

We are pulled in many directions in Cymru/Wales. We either coin new terms for women (where possible) or place a female noun to indicate the person is a woman.

An example of the first would be *gyrrwr* (n.m.) for 'a driver' and *gyrwraig* (n.f.) for 'a driver who is female'. Traditionally, many such job names would be masculine and those doing the job would be males. As for the second, a *dyn siop* is what the French would call _un commerçant_ and *merch siop* stands for _une commerçante._

However, there are other cases where no feminine is possible, *athro *(n.m.) is 'a male teacher' and *athrawes* (n.f.) is 'a female teacher'. But only a hard-line feminist (male or female) could argue (at present, anyway) for ?*Athrawes *(n.f.) ('a female professor at university') in contrast to *Athro* (n.m.) who is 'a (male) university professor'.

Again, some job titles cover both sexes _and both genders_. For example, *nyrs* (n.m.f.) is 'a nurse' - the gender of whom can be determined by the sex of the employee in question.

Yet again, variations can apply. A (male) secretary and one who administers legal affairs is *ysgrifennydd* (n.m.). But she who does office work - and nothing beyond that - is an *ysgrifenyddes* (n.f.).

All this should make clear there is no neuter in Welsh, nor, despite what our eastern neighbours think, the justification of conflating gender and sex. Their language has no gender. We have two. Nothing can change that. (And that is something some from a non-gender-based language background can't grasp).

And despite inroads made by females in the job market in recent times - something to be commended and to note that our Parliament was the first in the world to achieve 50:50 male:female representation in 2003 - some job titles will remain masculine (and generic) for the foreseeable future. When our equivalent of Foreign Minister (female) met her Québecois opposite number (another female) a couple of years ago, they were both considered to be *Gweinidog* (n.m.) 'Minister' by the Welsh-speaking Press (and by a good number of my [female] compatriot-linguists, too).


----------



## Włoskipolak 72

Penyafort said:


> Both words in Catalan derive from the verb _emprendre _"to undertake" and its noun _empresa _(from the participle), with different suffixes.
> 
> entrepreneur
> = *emprenedor *(m.), *emprenedora *(f.)
> 
> businessman/businesswoman
> = *empresari *(m), *empresària *(f.)
> = *home de negocis* (m.), *dona de negocis* (f.) --This calque is rather used for someone dedicated to business in general, rather than specifically owning one business, but can be quite synonymous in many contexts.
> 
> 
> business
> = *empresa* [p.p. from _emprendre_: emprès (m), empresa (f)] --Specially as a synonym for company
> = *negoci *[< Latin negotium, meaning 'not leisure', nec + otium] --A business or business in general


Thanks!

emprenedor  = ''el que tiene decisión  e iniciativa para empezar a hacer alguna cosa dificil ''.

Italian

imprenditore = i_mprenditore _e _impresario_ sono due sostantivi riconducibili al verbo _imprendere_, proveniente dal latino volgare **imprehendĕre*, ‘intraprendere’, formato dal prefisso locativo _in-_ e prehendĕre ‘prendere’, letteralmente ‘prendere sopra di sé’, che indica l’azione di cominciare qualcosa, di avviare un’iniziativa.

entrepreneur and impresario are two nouns traceable to the verb imprendere, coming from the Vulgar Latin *imprehendĕre, 'to undertake', formed by the locative prefix in- and prehendĕre 'to take', literally 'to take upon oneself', indicating the action of starting something, of initiating an initiative.


----------



## Penyafort

Yendred said:


> The current social trend is to feminize words to make greater space for women, in domains that are traditionally occupied by men. I don't know if other countries also follow this trend.


I'd say that applies to the Romance languages and probably other languages with masculine and feminine genders. 

On the other hand, you've got English, where the trend is rather the opposite: to remove feminine endings and say the same word for both.


----------



## apmoy70

Penyafort said:


> I'd say that applies to the Romance languages and probably other languages with masculine and feminine genders.
> 
> On the other hand, you've got English, where the trend is rather the opposite: to remove feminine endings and say the same word for both.


Greek has three genders (masculine, feminine, neuter) and one quite logically, expects masculine, feminine and neuter forms in all nouns.
But...many names of the ancient second declension, had identical masculine and feminine forms in the ancient language, in MoGr too have the same form and are distinguished in gender only by the gender of the adjective, or the definite article e.g:
-*«Ιατρός»* [i.aˈt̠ro̞s] (masc. & fem.) --> _medical doctor, physician;_ *«νέος ιατρός»* [ˈne.o̞s̠i.aˈt̠ro̞s̠] (masc.) --> _(male) new doctor_, *«o ιατρός»* [o̞.i.aˈt̠ro̞s̠] (masc.) --> _the (masc. nom. sing. definite article) doctor_, *«νέα ιατρός»* [ˈne.a.i.aˈt̠ro̞s̠] (fem.) --> _(female) new doctor_, *« η ιατρός»* [i.i.aˈt̠ro̞s̠] (fem.) --> _the (fem. nom. sing. definite article) doctor_.
-*«Δικαστής»* [ði.kas̠ˈt̠is] (masc. & fem.) --> _judge;_ *«καλός δικαστής»* [kaˈlo̞s̠ði.kas̠ˈt̠is̠] (masc.) --> _(male) good judge_, *«η δικαστής»* [iði.kas̠ˈt̠is̠] (fem.) --> _the (fem. nom. sing. definite article) judge_.
Some people, are using feminine forms of the aforementioned nouns in their speech, *«γιατρίνα»* [ʝaˈt̠ri.na] for _female doctor_, *«δικαστίνα»* [ði.kas̠ˈt̠i.na] for _female judge_, but they're clearly colloquialisms, and can't be used in formal occasions.


----------



## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> When our equivalent of Foreign Minister (female) met her Québecois opposite number (another female) a couple of years ago, they were both considered to be *Gweinidog* (n.m.) 'Minister' by the Welsh-speaking Press (and by a good number of my [female] compatriot-linguists, too).


In French, _ministre_ is a "unisex" word, but it took years to call a female minister "_*la* ministre_", since all ministers (male or female) were formerly officially called "_*le* ministre_".
Not more than say 20 years ago, people were shocked to hear a female minister called _*la* ministre, _but I guess today the majority of people would be shocked to hear a female minister called _*le* ministre._
This is how society evolves through language.


----------



## Welsh_Sion

Indeed, @Yendred but I suppose we are still rather conservative (small c) in Cymru with regard to some things ... That said, note that 50:50 division in Parliament in 2003 - when previously there had only been 4 female _élues_ in Wales's history (this includes the Westminster Parliament ...)

We have discussed before that Thatcher, May and Sturgeon have all been called _Première Ministre_ in your country (and if memory serves me right, but do correct me), Cresson of your own country, similarly.

But, and perish the thought that she will succeed, will we see a_ Madame la Présidente le Pen?

Cordialement_


----------



## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> We have discussed before that Thatcher, May and Sturgeon have all been called _Première Ministre_ in your country (and if memory serves me right, but do correct me), Cresson of your own country, similarly.


Cresson (1991-1992) or Thatcher were at that time naturally called _Madame le Premier Ministre_ (!). On the opposite nowadays, it sounds natural to call May or Sturgeon _Madame la Première Ministre._



Welsh_Sion said:


> Madame la Présidente le Pen


Yes I guess this is how she would be called if - by misfortune - she is elected.


----------



## Welsh_Sion

My memory didn't serve me right - apologies. 

Would the French 're-write history' and call/write _la Première Ministre Cresson/Thatcher_ now?

(Good to hear we're on the same page with regard to Mme le Pen, though!)


----------



## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> Would the French 're-write history' and call/write _la Première Ministre Cresson/Thatcher_ now?


Yes indeed, language rewrites history   More seriously, it's not seen as an anachronism, but just a language evolution.


----------



## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> (Good to hear were on the same page with regard to Mme le Pen, though!)


Yes indeed, if le Pen is elected, France will be cursed in Europe and in the world, just like it happened to the US with Trump. Any reasonable person should be aware of this.
And I'm worried because the tendency is positive for her, a few days before the election.
Not speaking of the reasons why clowns like Trump or le Pen can win elections, because this will lead us too far...


----------



## Nanon

Welsh_Sion said:


> Would the French 're-write history' and call/write _la Première Ministre Cresson/Thatcher_ now?


According to the French Wikipedia, the answer is yes: see Margaret Thatcher — Wikipédia and Édith Cresson — Wikipédia. Language is more retroactive than law .
There was a feminist campaign against MLP during the 2017 presidential election: #PasMaPrésidente
Five years after, it is still relevant, unfortunately!


----------



## Włoskipolak 72

Yendred said:


> The current social trend is to feminize words to make greater space for women, in domains that are traditionally occupied by men. I don't know if other countries also follow this trend.


In Poland there is a tendency in feminist circles to use feminine forms of words such as prime minister, minister, director, despite the fact that in tradition they have a masculine form.
The word 'psychologist' (psycholog) is usually masculine. So we say "Mrs Psychologist"(pani psycholog) or ("psycholożka")..


----------



## Awwal12

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> In Poland there is a tendency in feminist circles to use feminine forms of words such as prime minister, minister, director, despite the fact that in tradition they have a masculine form.


That's just aping neo-feminist trends  in English - without understanding how they have come to existence. Russian revolutionary feminists tried hard to *remove* feminitives from Russian, to stress that gender mostly makes no difference in professional activities. Now their retarded "feminist" great-grandchildren do just the opposite. And all that ultimately comes from numerous English professional nouns ending in -man - which is NOT the case in Slavic languages (as those use gender-dependent suffixal complexes instead... or not; even in English loans -man predictably gets completely desemantized, resulting in derived words like Rus. sportsménka "sportswoman").


----------



## Yendred

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> The word 'psychologist' (psycholog) is usually masculine.


In French, the word _psychologue_ [psi.ko.lɔɡ] is unisex, and it's been a long time since we have no problem to say _*un*_ _psychologue _for a man_, _or_ *une* psychologue _for a woman, especially because it's been a long time that this job is practised equally by men and women.


----------



## Awwal12

Yendred said:


> and it's been a long time since we have no problem to say _*un*_ _psychologue _for a man_, _or_ *une* psychologue _for a woman


In Russian grammatical gender is more tightly tied to morphology, so in standard Russian words like психолог (psikhólog) are invariably masculine and attach masculine attributives. Predicates, on the other hand, don't agree in gender with such words grammatically; instead their gender (if applicable) is dictated by the biological gender of the subject's referent. That shouldn't be mixed with common gender nouns (invariably ending in -a), which simply take the grammatical gender equivalent to the referent's biological gender; e.g. убийца (ubíytsa "killer, murderer" m./f.).
Of course, there is still a large mass of feminitives (sportsménka, studéntka, léktorsha, ávtorsha, aktrísa etc.), though many are not used in more formal registers of speech.


----------

