# Shaking, nodding or turning the head



## meltem

Does shaking your head sideways mean "no" in France? Does this gesture exist? I do it but I doubt if it's understandable by the french.


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## LaReinita

I would imagine that this is a universal gesture, and understood by just about anyone.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

LaReinita said:


> I would imagine that this is a universal gesture, and understood by just about anyone.


He he, almost.  Some aborigin tribes in Venezuela do, but some others in Kenia (and other African countries, I think) don't.





meltem said:


> Does shaking your head sideways mean "no" in France? Does this gesture exist? I do it but I doubt if it's understandable by the french.


Yes it does, as far as I know.

I see you're a Turk living in France...  I wonder what compelled you to make such a question.  Is it that some French don't understand what you mean when you shake your head?


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## meltem

No, it's because I just discovered that there are some gestures which we often use do not exist in France and probably in a lot of other countries. The two of them which are very specific I think are (I copy paste from http://www.business-with-turkey.com/tourist-guide/turkish_body_language.shtml)

-"Raising your chin, moving your eyebrows up and simultaneously clicking your tongue means "NO." (Try it. It is fun ! ). This one is one of the most different gestures of the Turkish body language and can be also found in Greece." (you can see a picture of how it is done on the internet page above)

-"If you see someone holding their hand with palm up and bringing fingers in toward thumb, this is a compliment and generally means something is "good." It can be done when they like a food, a cloth, or any object. It can also mean they find a woman or man nice and handsome."​ 
I discovered that they don't mean anything to some people when some french and german people made fun of me when I used them. I think we tend to use morebody language than them and it looks a bit strange, yet they have also some gestures that mean nothing to me.​ 
So, now, I have started to doubt of other gestures.​


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Thanks for the link and the exercise, it _is_ fun! 


meltem said:


> I think we tend to use morebody language than them and it looks a bit strange, yet they have also some gestures that mean nothing to me.


Ah, don't worry. That happened to me, too. 

We Venezuelans use a looooooooooot more body language than other cultures (I think we got that from you guys  ). 

I still remember the first time I pointed to something with my lips (as in getting ready to kiss someone) when my English friend asked me where something was... Geez, they made fun of me for weeks!


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## zaby

Hi Meltem,

I confirm that shaking your head sideways is a gesture for 'no' in France too  

You may like this page which is about typical French gestures.


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## Pedro y La Torre

If you shake you're head sideways I'm sure you'd be understood.


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## Hakro

I believe that shaking head sideways is quite international "no" because it's origin is the gesture or motion of a baby when he/she has got enough of his/her mother's breast; just like nodding ("yes") is the motion that the baby does when nurseing (suckling). 

All the babies in all tribes do nurse, don't they? Are you sure about the African tribes, Venezuelan sweetie?


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Hakro said:


> Are you sure about the African tribes, Venezuelan sweetie?


Yeah, I am!  And I ended up just as shocked when I first heard about it.  

I thought of that gesture as intrinsecally human, so I found the absence of it as totally bizarre...  *Sigh* It's a big world we live in, isn't it?


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## Veggy

meltem said:


> -"Raising your chin, moving your eyebrows up and simultaneously clicking your tongue means "NO." (Try it. It is fun ! ). This one is one of the most different gestures of the Turkish body language and can be also found in Greece." (you can see a picture of how it is done on the internet page above)



And in southern Italy too. It's very common. Often, I use it too, because it is a much nicer way to say no!!


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## meltem

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> I still remember the first time I pointed to something with my lips (as in getting ready to kiss someone) when my English friend asked me where something was... Geez, they made fun of me for weeks!


Oh!   Fortunately, this gesture doesn't exist at us. If I wanted to point at something, I'd look at it just lifting my eyebrows and moving forward my chin towards it.


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## meltem

Veggy said:


> And in southern Italy too. It's very common. Often, I use it too, because it is a much nicer way to say no!!


It's very interesting to learn it Veggy, I didn't know it, then, that part of the world have some common gestures. I also love to use it.


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## meltem

zaby said:


> You may like this page which is about typical French gestures.


 
Ah, merci. I had once glanced at that page a bit, but there are some very interesting gestures that I doubt if the french really use them. (bizarre!! )


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

meltem said:


> If I wanted to point at something, I'd look at it just lifting my eyebrows and moving forward my chin towards it.


Yeah, we have that one too.  As I said, our culture involves a lot of body language (I personally love that part of it).

Is there any other gesture (typical of your country) that you'd like to know whether it's used somewhere else?


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## Lugubert

The "wiggle" (looking straight forward and tilting your heard to the left and then to the right (or in reverse order) means "yes" in Bulgaria. Their "no" is the nod I associate with "yes"...

The wiggle is especially common in India. It can have numerous meanings, but is most often used as a "discourse marker" like "I listen, please go on". Depending on the circumstances, it can be for example "I don't agree, but I'm too polite to protest" or "I finally realize that you want no milk in your tea, so I'll get it for you. Serves you right, stupid foreigner."

This can be immensely frustrating in for example restaurants. You ask if they serve a certain dish. Wiggle. Dammit, you think, and ask for another one. Same answer. Etc. You think they negate, but they are really meaning that they do serve all those things.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

meltem said:


> Ah, merci. I had once glanced at that page a bit, but there are some very interesting gestures that I doubt if the french really use them. (bizarre!! )


This question is legitimate... I went to this page and before clicking on each gesture link, I did the gesture I thought they could show. And I realized that I  did all the same way (all where I clicked), but often with less affectation than they show.


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## tvdxer

LaReinita said:


> I would imagine that this is a universal gesture, and understood by just about anyone.



Not quite.  In many cultures it means the opposite (affirmative).


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## ireney

We seem to share a lot of gestures with our neighbours  (the one for showing that someone is homosexual is the only one that would be misunderstood at one extend or another)



Hakro said:


> I believe that shaking head sideways is quite international "no" because it's origin is the gesture or motion of a baby when he/she has got enough of his/her mother's breast; just like nodding ("yes") is the motion that the baby does when nurseing (suckling).



Are you sure? I mean in Greece, when you nod its meaning depends on where your head's ending up pointing to. If it ends up pointing down it's yes; If it ends up pointing up it's no.




Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> We Venezuelans use a looooooooooot more body language than other cultures (I think we got that from you guys  ).
> 
> I still remember the first time I pointed to something with my lips (as in getting ready to kiss someone) when my English friend asked me where something was... Geez, they made fun of me for weeks!



I think you've got something there  I mean we don't have this particular gesture really but it would be understood in its context but we tend to make heavy use of the body language too.


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## Hakro

ireney said:


> Are you sure? I mean in Greece, when you nod its meaning depends on where your head's ending up pointing to. If it ends up pointing down it's yes; If it ends up pointing up it's no.


Of course I'm not sure. I only have read it somewhere.

Maybe Greek babies have different habits?


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## Cereth

Wow I learnt something new today!!!!
Do turkish men really kiss each other´s cheeks?? 
In Mexico that is just so banned!!!! hahaha, they´ll think you are gay if you do it...(Now I understand why my brother swears that he saw tarkan kissing another guy....yeah it was only a normal kiss in the cheek...hehehe I´ll tell him about this cultural matter).
Ah I am trying to imagine a Turkish in Japan...hahaha I guess they´ll have more troubles than me.


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## meltem

Cereth said:


> Do turkish men really kiss each other´s cheeks??


 
Yes, this is so so normal in Turkey. In formal situations where respect is important men just shake hands, but friends and relatives, young or old kiss eachother's cheeks as they meet and as they say goodbye. It's a show of their love or friendship to eachother, and it's not a passionate kiss


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## Maja

tvdxer said:


> Not quite.  In many cultures it means the opposite (affirmative).


In Bulgaria, for instance! 
When  they shake their head up and down it means "no", when they shake it left to right means "yes"!!!


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## Lugubert

Maja said:


> In Bulgaria, for instance!
> When they shake their head up and down it means "no", when they shake it left to right means "yes"!!!


Like I said already in post #15...


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## emery013

Hakro said:


> Of course I'm not sure. I only have read it somewhere.
> 
> Maybe Greek babies have different habits?



perhaps the babies mean "yes, I'm full" instead of "no more" a shaking side to side then doesnt "naturally" have to mean no.


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## badgrammar

I looked at the link for the French gestures, and I confirm, they're all fairly common and most definitely understandable...  I love the "Bof" and the "On se tire".  Classics!

I am surprised that anyobody's still surprised that in lots of cultures men kiss eachother on the cheek as a greeting!!  French guys do it all the time, although they don't hold hands.  

Meltem I do not understand how the hand gesture that is upposed to mean something is good is made (palm up, fingers towards thumb?)  Do the fingers wiggle?  I've never seen this one, or atleast didn't recognize it.  I certainly remember seeing the "no" chin lift-tongue-click though.  Very subtle, I like that one!


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## Lombard Beige

For those who are interested in this there is a book by Desmond Morris, (the "Naked Ape" man), entitled in English "Body Language". I have it in French and it's entitled "Le langage des gestes".

regards


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## Lombard Beige

zaby said:


> ... You may like this page which is about typical French gestures.



Très intéressant! Most of these gestures (for example the finger pointing to the eye), are common in Northern Italy too, but I'll do a systematic check and report back.  

Salutations


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## Ayazid

Cereth said:


> Wow I learnt something new today!!!!
> Do turkish men really kiss each other´s cheeks??
> In Mexico that is just so banned!!!! hahaha, they´ll think you are gay if you do it...(Now I understand why my brother swears that he saw tarkan kissing another guy....yeah it was only a normal kiss in the cheek...hehehe I´ll tell him about this cultural matter).
> Ah I am trying to imagine a Turkish in Japan...hahaha I guess they´ll have more troubles than me.


 
Actually, this habit (cheek kissing among men ) is common throughout the entire Middle East and North Africa, not only in Turkey. It is indeed a sign of respect and strong friendship, therefore it´s restricted only to friends or family members. To lesser extent, the habit is also present in Italy and Balkan, or at least it is what I have read. Interestingly, despite the strong Arab influence on the Spanish and Portuguese cultures the cheek kissing among men was never common in these countries, neither it is common in Latin America, except Argentina or Uruguay, where it has been probably spread by numerous Italian immigrants.

Check this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_kissing


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Ayazid said:


> Actually, this habit (cheek kissing among men ) is common throughout the entire Middle East and North Africa, not only in Turkey. [...]


It is also the case in France, more frequently in the south around the mediterranean sea, though.


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## Lombard Beige

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> It is also the case in France, more frequently in the south around the mediterranean sea, though.



But kissing on the cheeck among men is not very frequent here in Northern Italy, except say between elderly father and son, or perhaps brother and brother, or close friends, but only after a longish absence, or release from prison , for example. Neither my son nor my northern son-in-law would NORMALLY kiss me, but now I think of it my other son--in-law, who is Tuscan, does, but then his circumstances are special, as he is paraplegic and maybe it's comforting for him ...
Where I live, it's the Egyptians and other Arabs who stand out for this ...
Also, I've visited Corsica several times, and the NATIVE Corsicans seem more reserved than the southern "continental" French. I may be wrong of course about this last point, as my experience is limited, although I've visited every part of Corsica, from Calvi to Bonifacio.  

regards


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Lombard Beige said:


> But kissing on the cheeck among men is not very frequent here in Northern Italy[...]


Yes, I spoke only for south of France (and around the mediterranean sea).


Lombard Beige said:


> Also, I've visited Corsica several times, and the NATIVE Corsicans seem more reserved than the southern "continental" French. [...]


Yes, you're right corsican are a bit apart from France.  Kissing on the cheeks are not that frequent there between men (except inside of the same family).


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## badgrammar

Hmmm, here in Paris, it is not unusual at all to see men kiss on the cheek, it all depends on the guys involved.  My husband will give some guys "la bise", with other guys he shakes hands.  And maybe with the same guy, he'll shake hands one time, kiss on the cheek another.  It seems to vary a lot.


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## meltem

badgrammar said:


> I
> I am surprised that anyobody's still surprised that in lots of cultures men kiss eachother on the cheek as a greeting!! French guys do it all the time, although they don't hold hands.


I've been in France for 6 months but I find that men do not really kiss eachother. Most of the time they prefer handshaking or just other type of greeting between friends.


badgrammar said:


> Meltem I do not understand how the hand gesture that is upposed to mean something is good is made (palm up, fingers towards thumb?) Do the fingers wiggle? !


 
It sounds a bit complicated here  You can see Hülya Avşar (the woman on the video) doing it about in the middle of the video, she does it to mean that that part of the lyrics of the song is very nice, watch it! http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/hulya%2Bavsar/video/xop3b_ibrahim-tatlises-havsar-bulamadim


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## drippings

I would be surprised.

If that this is not a universal gesture, I would be very surprised.


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## MonsieurAquilone

I too agree with the concensus that shaking one's head side to side means 'no' almost universally, however if you do it in really slow motion while running on a beach, you are refering to bay watch


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## Abbassupreme

To say "no" in Iran, in a rather informal way using a nodding of the head, is to jerk one's head upwards (and/or jerking one's eyebrows upwards) and, normally, make a *tsk* sound while doing so.  A simple nod or a two-eyed "wink" would be translated as a yes.  I've never seen the headshake used.

By the way, cheek kissing is used extensively amongst Iranian friends and family, but never normally done with strangers.


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## Orestes

Cereth said:


> In Mexico that is just so banned!!!! hahaha, they´ll think you are gay if you do it.


 
In Mexico, the kiss in the cheek (just one) is usual only male-female or female-female on casual ocasions. When two men are really good friends is usual also a quick hug palming on the back.

Men-men kissing on the cheek could be used only as a father-son or grandfather-grandson greeting. But is not really too common.


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## Spectre scolaire

Lombard Beige said:
			
		

> For those who are interested in this there is a book by Desmond Morris, (the "Naked Ape" man), entitled in English "Body Language"?!. I have it in French and it's entitled "Le langage des gestes".


Desmond Morris is a zoologist with human behaviour as one of his specialities. He has written so many books, and his books have been printed in so many different editions, in different countries and in different languages that recommending a particular one is very difficult. F.ex. the suggested English title is (presumably) _in extenso_ “Peoplewatching: The Desmond Morris Guide to Body Language”, a paperback edition from 2002. 

The book I am personally most familiar with is “Manwatching: a field guide to human behavior”, 320 pages, with two separate editions in London and New York 1977. It is largely concerned with body language. Desmond Morris started with his “manwatching” in the seventies, but his most famous book, “The Naked Ape: a zoologist’s study of the human animal”, came in 1967 (last edition 2005!). A quick library search further revealed “Gestures: their origins and distribution” (1981) and “Bodywatching: a field guide to the human species” (1985). Pertinent to this thread is also “Bodytalk: the meaning of human gestures” with two separate editions in London and New York 1994. I have never seen this book.

Desmond Morris has many epigones who want to cash in on the success of this fascinating subject, but as far as I am concerned, any reference to human body talk inevitably goes through him.

An interesting thing with “body talk” is that most people are not aware of how much they actually engage in gesticulations of all kinds. I have come across people who find it “childish”, they claim that their speech is never accompanied by gesticulations, and to emphasize their argument they would say: “Ever since I was a child, I never used to make gestures when talking.” Once when a person was being confronted with the fact that he did stretch out his arm to show how small he was when he quit this habit, he claimed he had not done such a thing. I didn’t say anything, but some of his Greek fellow countrymen had also noticed it!
​


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