# Norwegian: take care, hugs and kisses



## office_angel

Hei,

I have started learning Norwegian since I have joined an oil & gas company... had some Norwegian colleagues coming over to the UK to work with us for a week or two at a time, and I keep in touch with some of them since then. 

When I write or say "Bye" I use "ha det bra", but was wondering if there is a phrase in Norwegian similar to the English "take care (of yourself)"....

Also, I got a bit confused when it comes to the use of "kysse" instead of "kiss". One of my Norwegian friends told me they don't use "kysse" in this way... How should I say "hugs and kisses" or "kiss" at the end of my emails then?

Appreciate any help or hints!

På forhånd Takk!


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## Grefsen

office_angel said:


> Hei,
> 
> I have started learning Norwegian since I have joined an oil & gas company... had some Norwegian colleagues coming over to the UK to work with us for a week or two at a time, and I keep in touch with some of them since then.



*Velkommen til nordisk forum office_angel!  *



office_angel said:


> When I write or say "Bye" i use "ha det bra", but was wondering if there is a phrase in Norwegian similar to the English "take care (of yourself)"....



I recall asking a similar question when I was first learning Norwegian.   

The expression I have been using for "take care of yourself" is "*ta vare på din selv.*"  Since I have been using this expression for several years now (including as recently as just two days ago) I'd like to get some feedback from some of the native Norwegian speakers who frequent this forum.


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## Grefsen

office_angel said:


> Also, I got a bit confused when it comes to the use of "kysse" instead of "kiss". One of my Norwegian friends told me they don't use "kysse" in this way... How should I say "hugs and kisses" or "kiss" at the end of my emails then?



This is another question I had when I first started writing letters to friends in Norway.  Instead of writing "hugs and kisses" to my close female friends it was recommended to me that I should instead write "Hugs from," which is *"Klem fra."  *


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## office_angel

Grefsen said:


> I should instead write "Hugs from," which is *"Klem fra." *


 
Tusen takk for the "take care" translation! 

But what if i really want to send my friend a kiss?


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## Grefsen

office_angel said:


> Tusen takk for the "take care" translation!


*
Vær så **god!  *



office_angel said:


> But what if i really want to send my friend a kiss?



I believe it is correct to write *"kyss og klem" *for"kiss and hug," and *"kysser og klemmer" *for "kisses and hugs." Perhaps it would be fine for you to use something like *"kysser fra" *at the end of a letter.  However, I would recommend that you wait and see what replies you receive from the native Norwegian speakers.


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## missTK

Actually, if you want to be grammatically correct I think it's "ta vare på deg selv".

You might want to keep in mind, especially if you're speak American English, that these expressions tend to be "stronger" and less casual in Norwegian than their translation would be in English.


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## office_angel

Tusen takk for the correct "take care" Norwegian phrase! 



missTK said:


> that these expressions tend to be "stronger" and less casual in Norwegian than their translation would be in English.


 
hmmm, are you talking bout "hugs and kisses"? Woud a Norwegian person get offended if I wrote that?


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> Actually, if you want to be grammatically correct I think it's "ta vare på deg selv".


 

*Tusen takk* for the long overdue correction *missTK!  *


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## aaspraak

It is common to use *klem fra* and I agree that it should be *ta vare på deg selv* if you want to use that expression. 

I wouldn't be offended if someone wrote *kyss og klem*, but it wouldn't be natural to use unless the person writing could really kiss me. I'd expect it from my boyfriend and maybe close relatives, but not from new friends. 

I'd say using the word *hilsen* is the most neutral way to end a letter, but *klem fra* is probably the most common in informal letters, e-mails and similar.


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## missTK

office_angel said:


> hmmm, are you talking bout "hugs and kisses"? Woud a Norwegian person get offended if i wrote that?



Both, really. Maybe more about "take care", actually, because I think "hugs and kisses" is fairly intimate in English as well, but I don't know if I get every nuance being non-native.

I feel like "take care" might be something you could easily throw out when parting with somebody you don't know particularly well. "Ta vare på deg selv", to me, implies a different level of concern and intimacy. 

This is a personal judgment and others may disagree, but I wouldn't say it unless I was a little bit worried about someone AND knew them well. In my head (which again depends on dialects and personality etc etc) it's really closer to "remember you need to take care of yourself" in flavor.


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## office_angel

missTK said:


> In my head (which again depends on dialects and personality etc etc) it's really closer to "remember you need to take care of yourself" in flavor.


 
I can see your point missTK and thanks for explaining this phrase deeper! Actually, that is what I want to write to one of my "friends"


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## Grefsen

aaspraak said:


> It is common to use *klem fra* and I agree that it should be *ta vare på deg selv* if you want to use that expression.



If you (or any of our other Norwegian friends who post here) received a message that included the comment *ta vare på din selv,* but it was from someone who was making a sincere effort to learn Norwegian, do you think you would let the person who wrote it know that it should be written *ta vare på deg selv* instead?  

Perhaps some of my Norwegian friends don't want to discourage me from attempting to write *på norsk *so they don't point out minor mistakes like this.  However, it is more than just a little bit frustrating for me to know that I have been making the same mistake for several years now.


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## office_angel

Grefsen, the friend I am writing to, does correct my mistakes in Norwegian... sometimes it is embarrassing, that is why I'm asking on this forum how to say "hugs and kisses" before I write to him...


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## Grefsen

aaspraak said:


> I wouldn't be offended if someone wrote *kyss og klem*, but it wouldn't be natural to use unless the person writing could really kiss me. I'd expect it from my boyfriend and maybe close relatives, but not from new friends.



This is a really good point that you are making here.  It might not be offensive to receive a letter with *kyss og klem *in it from someone who was learning Norwegian who was also from a culture where it is more common to use expressions such as "kiss & hug," but I'm guessing that you probably wouldn't respond in kind.  

As a Norwegian-American male I usually let my *norsk venninne* (Norwegian female friends) determine what expression is appropriate to use for concluding our correspondence.  I recall a few times when I have used *vennlig hilsen*, but was then very pleasantly surprised when* klem fra* was used in the reply that I received.


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## Grefsen

office_angel said:


> Grefsen, the friend i am writing to, does correct my mistakes in Norwegian... sometimes it is embarrassing, that is why im asking on this forum how to say "hugs and kisses" before i write to him...



I don't want to get off topic here, but I'll just say that you are very lucky that you have someone who is correcting your mistakes.   

Perhaps if some of my Norwegian friends had been a little less polite with me over the past several years, I wouldn't be making so many of the same *elementær** feil* (elementary/basic mistakes).


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## aaspraak

Grefsen said:


> If you (or any of our other Norwegian friends who post here) received a message that included the comment *ta vare på din selv,* but it was from someone who was making a sincere effort to learn Norwegian, do you think you would let the person who wrote it know that it should be written *ta vare på deg selv* instead?



I'm not sure I would do it, but reading this forum has made me more aware that people often appreciate being corrected. I'd probably be most likely to correct it if it is one of a few mistakes in their text. If they make many mistakes I think I'd only correct the most serious ones, and if it were the only I might guess it was a typo. But even when I don't exactly correct mistakes, I sometimes find a way to use the correct expression in my reply. 

By the way, it seems you used a little to many letters when writing _venninne_ in your later post. 

Regarding expressions for concluding correspondance, in my opinion *vennlig hilsen* is more formal than *hilsen*, wich is more formal than *klem fra*.


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## Grefsen

aaspraak said:


> I'm not sure I would do it, but reading this forum has made me more aware that people often appreciate being corrected. I'd probably be most likely to correct it if it is one of a few mistakes in their text. If they make many mistakes I think I'd only correct the most serious ones, and if it were the only I might guess it was a typo. But even when I don't exactly correct mistakes, I sometimes find a way to use the correct expression in my reply.


*Tusen takk *for your reply.  I have to admit that I might get a bit discouraged if too many corrections were made, but as I mentioned before, it is also very frustrating to realize that you have been making the same mistake over and over for many years.  



aaspraak said:


> By the way, it seems you used a little to many letters when writing _venninne_ in your later post.



The correction has already been made.  *Tusen takk!*



aaspraak said:


> Regarding expressions for concluding correspondance, in my opinion *vennlig hilsen* is more formal than *hilsen*, wich is more formal than *klem fra*.



*Veldig interessant!  *I always thought that *hilsen* was actually more formal than* vennlig **hilsen.

*In your opinion would *med vennlig hilsen *be just as formal as* vennlig hilsen *or perhaps a little less formal?*
 *


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## aaspraak

I think *med vennlig hilsen* is at least as formal as *vennlig hilsen*. Sometimes it is abbreviated *mvh.*.

I've tried to find some sort of style guide for letters in Norwegian, but haven't had much success. I only found this:

http://www.korrekturavdelingen.no/K4AellerB.htm#vennlighilsen


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## office_angel

My Norwegian work colleagues use Med Vennlig Hilsen at the end of their emails - abbreviating it to MVH. I thought that was the most polite way of saying "Best Regards" not the most formal... I was wrong then...


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## missTK

Well, it's not like it's horribly formal and stiff either. "Med vennlig hilsen" would be okay in almost any situation except for friends and family. "Vennlig hilsen" might be slightly less formal but we're talking about small differences here. It doesn't really matter and you won't offend anybody by choosing the wrong one.

I generally use "(med) vennlig hilsen" for strangers and just "hilsen" for people I know.


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> Well, it's not like it's horribly formal and stiff either. "Med vennlig hilsen" would be okay in almost any situation except for friends and family.



Fortunately I don't think I have lost any friends over the years because I kept using *"Med vennlig hilsen" *instead of *"Hilsen,"  *but I have to admit that I cringed quite a bit when I first read this reply.  

Perhaps it is also acceptable to use *"Med vennlig hilsen"* for *norsk venner *when you are a Norwegian-American who prior to reading this thread didn't actually know any better.


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> Actually, if you want to be grammatically correct I think it's "ta vare på deg selv".



I'd be interested to know what the explanation is for using *"ta vare på deg selv" *instead of* "ta vare på din selv." *

Wouldn't the literal translation of *"ta vare på deg selv"* be "take care on you self"?


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## missTK

Grefsen said:


> I'd be interested to know what the explanation is for using *"ta vare på deg selv" *instead of* "ta vare på din selv." *
> 
> Wouldn't the literal translation of *"ta vare på deg selv"* be "take care on you self"?



Well, depends on what you mean by literal translation. "Yourself" isn't really the same as "your self", it's a word in its own right. 

"Din selv" is ungrammatical in any case, you could perhaps refer to "ditt selv" but you would probably have to be talking about psychoanalysis. In this case, "selv" is a noun, but in most cases it's a pronoun.

"Du kan hente den selv" (You can get it yourself)
"Jeg så meg selv i et speil" (I saw myself in a mirror)
"Han burde ikke være så hard mot seg selv" (He shouldn't be so hard on himself)
etc.




> Fortunately I don't think I have lost any friends over the years because I kept using *"Med vennlig hilsen" *instead of *"Hilsen,"  *but I have to admit that I cringed quite a bit when I first read this reply.
> 
> Perhaps it is also acceptable to use *"Med vennlig hilsen"* for *norsk venner *when you are a Norwegian-American who prior to reading this thread didn't actually know any better.



I think I used a too strong word when I wrote "acceptable". Maybe "expected" is better. If a friend wrote "med vennlig hilsen" to me, I would be a bit surprised, but not offended. And with someone who isn't a native Norwegian, I will of course assume that any strange use of expressions is a language quirk rather than a subtle attempt to be rude!  And then I hope that others will do the same for me when I try to speak their language.


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> Well, depends on what you mean by literal translation. "Yourself" isn't really the same as "your self", it's a word in its own right.



What I did was a word by word translation using an online *norsk ordbok *and I came up with the following*:*

*Ta *= Take *

vare *= care*

på *= on*

deg *= you*

selv *= self
 


missTK said:


> "Din selv" is ungrammatical in any case.....



Just to make sure I understand you correctly, the translation for *"selv"* in   "*"ta vare på deg selv"* is "yourself" and so writing *" din selv"* would be as redundant as writing "your yourself" in English.


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> "Din selv" is ungrammatical in any case, you could perhaps refer to "ditt selv" but you would probably have to be talking about psychoanalysis. In this case, "selv" is a noun, but in most cases it's a pronoun.



So if someone was using *"ditt selv" *during psychoanalysis would this person have some sort of a multiple personality disorder that required them to be specific about which of their "selves" they were actually discussing?


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> I think I used a too strong word when I wrote "acceptable". Maybe "expected" is better. If a friend wrote "med vennlig hilsen" to me, I would be a bit surprised, but not offended. And with someone who isn't a native Norwegian, I will of course assume that any strange use of expressions is a language quirk rather than a subtle attempt to be rude!  And then I hope that others will do the same for me when I try to speak their language.



Okay, I like "expected" much better than "acceptable".  

I also wanted to thank you for doing such a good job  making the distinction between the use of "med vennlig hilsen," "vennlig hilsen." and "hilsen."  Thanks in a large part to your contributions here, I  have probably learned more practical Norwegian in this thread than any other in quite some time.  

Since I'm traveling to Norway in less than two weeks, I will have many opportunities to put what I have learned in this thread into practice right away.  Yesterday I received an email from a very good friend who I will be visiting in Norway soon.  By habit I started to write *"Med vennlig hilsen" *at the end of my reply, but thanks to this thread, I caught myself and used *"Hilsen"* instead. 

*Tusen takk!  *


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## missTK

You're welcome! I perversely enjoy explaining things to people, I guess it's the teacher in me wanting to get out now that I'm doing something else for a living  

This thread is long enough as it is, but I just needed to clarify one last thing.

If you look up "selv" in the dictionary, you will find two entries.
One of it is a noun. It's neuter (et selv, selvet) and therefore, "din selv" is wrong. Other than that, you may use it anywhere it would be natural to talk about "the self". I've never come across this except in psychology. You wouldn't have to have more than one self, you would just have to talk about "the self", which most people don't in normal conversation, I think.

In "ta vare på deg selv", the two words "deg selv" together play the role that the one English word "yourself" does. In other examples, this role is played by either just "deg" or just "selv", I can't fully explain why, unfortunately...I think it might one of those things that you just need to absorb the feel for over time.

So the problem isn't really redundancy (after all, "deg selv" isn't redundant in this case, but it might be in others), it's use of the wrong word. Like saying "his self" instead of "himself" in English. But "your yourself" nicely captures the feeling that "din selv" gives in Norwegian, so you are sort of right. 

A few more examples (I'm trying to figure this out for myself as much as for you here)

Only "selv"

Det kan jeg gjøre selv (I can do that myself)
Han hentet bilen selv (he picked up the car himself)

Seems to fit when "yourself" etc is the subject of the sentence.


Only "meg"/"deg" 
Jeg skal kle på meg (I'm going to get [myself] dressed)
Skadet du deg? (Did you hurt yourself?)
Jeg må skjerpe meg (I need to get myself together)

Seems to mostly fit where you could translate/rewrite with get... in English

Both
Har du sett deg selv på video? (Have you seen yourself on video?)
Ingen ser seg selv objektivt (Nobody sees themselves objectively)
Han har stor tro på seg selv (He has great faith in himself)

Mostly used with seeing, hearing, treating oneself in a certain way, I think

Both, but not really
Jeg skal kle på meg selv! (As said by a three-year-old)

In this case there is an extra emphasis on "doing it _yourself_".


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## Grefsen

missTK said:


> In "ta vare på deg selv", the two words "deg selv" together play the role that the one English word "yourself" does. In other examples, this role is played by either just "deg" or just "selv", I can't fully explain why, unfortunately...I think it might one of those things that you just need to absorb the feel for over time.
> 
> So the problem isn't really redundancy (after all, "deg selv" isn't redundant in this case, but it might be in others), it's use of the wrong word. Like saying "his self" instead of "himself" in English. But "your yourself" nicely captures the feeling that "din selv" gives in Norwegian, so you are sort of right.



*Tusen takk* for your very thorough and complete explanation.   

My problem was that I kept treating "deg selv" as being two words  (you self) instead of simply "yourself."  Thanks to what I have learned in this thread I don't think I'll be making that mistake again anytime soon.


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## Grefsen

aaspraak said:


> Regarding expressions for concluding correspondance, in my opinion *vennlig hilsen* is more formal than *hilsen*, wich is more formal than *klem fra*.



One of my *norsk venner* likes to conclude his emails to me with *beste hilsen. * Would consider this to be a little less formal than* hilsen?*


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## oyvindbs

Beste hilsen*er* (can't remember hearing it in singular) is less formal. You wouldn't use it in a formal letter, but then I would say that hilsen isn't necessarily formal either. Putting hilsen in the end of a letter doesn't have to be formal. That said beste hilsener can't be used in a formal letter.

(One small thing, remember to use the plural consistently, norsk*e* venn*er*)


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