# na wiosce która dobrze znamy



## LeTasmanien

witam wszystkich!

Can anzone help with the meaning of these lines which have confused...

na wiosce która dobrze znamy   zagościł błogi spokój zapanował                
do tego stopnia że...

The best i can do so far is  
"at the village which we know well   ..... blissful calmness reigns
......"

Is stopnia related to stopnieć? which is same as topnieć meaning to melt, ebb away

Thanks. That's a great help
Phil.


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## Szkot

No, it's the genitive form of the noun stopień.


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## LeTasmanien

Thanks.


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## LilianaB

Hi, LeTasmanian. It is very bad Polish -- not "na wiosce", but _we_ (some say _w_ -- including myself) wiosce. Also the registers are mixed. The first part is in very colloquial Polish, whereas "do tego stopnia" is quite formal. The sentence sounds really awkward.


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## LeTasmanien

Thanks LilianaB.
It's from an Asterix in Britain comic book so I suppose it would be very dubious Polish grammar.
Phil.


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## dreamlike

The only part that sticks out as colloquial is 'na wiosce'. 
It looks as though someone haven't finished writing it, or it's a draft. 
There are two words that mean effectively the same thing, and the author couldn't decide between them:

_na wiosce która dobrze znamy* zagościł* (zapanował) błogi spokój * zapanował * (it's out of place) _
At the village we know very well, a blissfull serenity started to reign 

_do tego stopnia że...
_to such an extent that...


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## LilianaB

Yes, I think your version, Dreamlike, is much better, and maybe here, in the stylized sentence, the "na" can somehow fit, but not in the previous sentence. In my opinion "do tego stopnia", is quite literary and formal language, so it would be better to skip it or replace with something else.


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## dreamlike

It's not my version, Liliana -- unless you're referring to my English translation. I just took the fragment as it stands from the first post:


LeTasmanien said:


> na wiosce która dobrze znamy _zagościł _błogi spokój _zapanował _
> do tego stopnia że...



and wanted to point to the fact that 'zapanował' could be used instead of 'zagościł', but it could not be not at the end of sentence -- which led me to believe it's just a draft version. Having read post #5, I know it's just a poorly written story, that has not been proofread.


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## LeTasmanien

Thanks very much dreamlike, LilianaB and Szcot for your replies.
I am just a beginner in the Polish language. The material I am working through currently is an archaic comic book vintage 1960, originally written in French before being translated to Polish and is full of slang and wordplays.
It really is totally unfair to throw it at you!
Dreamlike, the original story was very cleverly written but I can't make any comment about the translation into Polish!
It may have been hurried and/or unprofessional.
I am deeply impressed with the level of critical analysis and comment here.
Obviously I need to choose more serious and substantial material for you guys to work on! 
Thanks again
Phil.


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## LilianaB

dreamlike said:


> and wanted to point to the fact that 'zapanował' could be used instead of 'zagościł', but it could not be not at the end of sentence -- which led me to believe it's just a draft version. Having read post #5, I know it's just a poorly written story, that has not been proofread.


I was referring only to the Polish text. With your changes, it sounds Ok.


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## dreamlike

I know that you have to make do with what you have, but the Polish translation doesn't even appear to have been proofread, so I'd advise against using it to learn Polish.
We're looking forward to helping you with a more substantial material. You took on quite a challange... I mean studying Polish.



LilianaB said:


> I was referring only to the Polish text. With your changes, it sounds Ok.


It was readily apparent that someone forgot to remove the word 'zapanował'.


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## Thomas1

LeTasmanien said:


> witam wszystkich!
> 
> Can anzone help with the meaning of these lines which have confused...
> 
> na wiosce która dobrze znamy   zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
> do tego stopnia że...
> [...]


I think the sentence makes sense, and is correct (though, adding correct puctuation wouldn't hurt). It is, of course, incomplete. It may well render the language used in the comic book.


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## LilianaB

Do you consider _na wiosce_ standrd Polish? Shouldn't it be _w wiosce_? Why do you think an addition of  a totally redundant word (nothing more than a repetition) would be correct?


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## dreamlike

LilianaB said:


> Do you consider _na wiosce_ standrd Polish? Shouldn't it be _w wiosce_?


They might have used 'na wiosce' for effect, but I doubt it, given the overall quality of the translation. 
'W wiosce' is a normal and standard way of saying it, 'na wiosce' is extremely informal and colloquial in tone.


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## kknd

i'd even say that _na wiosce_ is not only colloquial but belongs to slang… i see some similarity to _na mieście_ (cf. _w mieście_) which is less objectable (only colloquial) in my opinion but this doesn't seem to be literary polish (standard polish taught in schools).


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## Thomas1

OK, thank you all. 

Then, in my opinion, it's not fair to judge this text against the rules of standard Polish. It's a bit like doing the same to a _góral_. I can't say for 100% that the comic book in question has a stylised language, hence my request to the original poster, but judging from what I've read and watched (e.g. _Przygody Mikołajka_, _Asterix i Obelix:_ _Misja Kleopatra_), and the excerpt provided, it is highly probable. These texts are meant to imitate the colloquial Polish represented by certain social strata (this is also present in the French version of _Le Petit Nicolas_, by the way). Very often, you can find there a plethora of different kinds of Polish adapted to the person and/or circumstances at hand.

As to the sentence itself:


> na wiosce która dobrze znamy   zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
> do tego stopnia że...


I'd write it with different punctuation: _Na wiosce, którą dobrze znamy,   zagościł błogi spokój, zapanował                do tego stopnia że..._
The missing part could be included in the following text or by some other means like a hilarious picture.

EDIT: Dreamlike, there is such a body, Rada Języka Polskiego has been functioning since 1996.


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## dreamlike

Thomas, I see your point, but to me the only, say, standard (as I understand it) preposition we would here is '*w* wiosce' rather than '*na* wiosce', the former being extremely colloquial and therefore fit for the purpose of stylizing the text - indeed, that author might have very well written 'na wiosce' on purpose. Frankly, I see no other explanation.


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## R.O

Heh, that's curious! I would never say "w wiosce", it sounds bizarre to me. I  agree ,though, that "na wiosce" has a slightly informal ring to it. What would I use in a formal context? I think that'd be "na wsi".


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## LilianaB

I think it should really be we _wiosce_, according to grammatical rules, but I would say _w_ and many people do the same -- I have noticed, but _we_ is probably the most correct form. According to phonetic rules _e_ is required before _w_, when we use the _w_ preposition.


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## R.O

Not really Liliana. We say, for instance, w Wiedniu, not 'we'. Whether e is required or not depends on the word which we put after the preposition and certainly e is not required before w.


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## NotNow

LilianaB said:


> I think it should really be we _wiosce_, according to grammatical rules, but I would say _w_ and many people do the same -- I have noticed, but _we_ is probably the most correct form. According to phonetic rules _e_ is required before _w_, when we use the _w_ preposition.



This is not true. _We_ is used before a word that begins with a consonent cluster, such as wrz or czw. Let's not confuse people.


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## dreamlike

R.O said:


> Heh, that's curious! I would never say "w wiosce", it sounds bizarre to me.



 Let us be reasonable. Just google 'w wiosce' and see for yourself how many results it yields. There are films, newspaper headlines, books and whatnot that have 'w wiosce' in them.

*W wiosce*_ mieszkało trzydzieści rodzin chłopskich, a nad nimi panował… straszny, bezlitosny głód._ (E. Orzeszkowa: Obrazek z lat głodowych)


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## R.O

Why would you think I wasn't being serious? Do you expect me - in the light of your post - to change my perception of this expression?


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## dreamlike

R.O said:


> Why would you think I wasn't being serious? Do you expect me - in the light of your post - to change my perception of this expression?



My post has been tampered with, R.O., I've written 'let us be reasonable', not 'serious'. I see no reason to dismiss 'w wiosce' as sounding bizarre, and find it unreasonable. I had no doubts whatsoever that you were being serious.

I don't expect you to do anything, you can, of course, make what you will of this phrase, but it's a perfectly fine wording, that has numerous instances in the corpus of the Polish language, which means it's used a lot in press and books 

I can't see how this could sound bizzare to anyone, but if it does to you, then so be it, what can I do: 

_Polscy sportowcy zadomowili się w wiosce olimpijskiej._


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## LilianaB

NotNow said:


> This is not true. _We_ is used before a word that begins with a consonent cluster, such as wrz or czw. Let's not confuse people.



Yes, you might be right. I thought about it, actually. _We wtorek_, _we czwartek_ (although many people say _w_ _czwartek_). _We wsi było zimno_. (just as an example). W wiosce (because _w_ here is followed by a vowel). _Na wsi_ is correct, whereas _w wiosce_ is usually used in standard Polish, instead of _na wiosce_. I think it is just a conventional use, no other explanation.


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## R.O

dreamlike said:


> My post has been tampered with, R.O., I've written 'let us be reasonable', not 'serious'. I see no reason to dismiss 'w wiosce' as sounding bizarre, and find it unreasonable. I had no doubts whatsoever that you were being serious.


I first read your post right after you wrote it (only didn't have time to reply at the time); I could swear it was 'serious'...



dreamlike said:


> I don't expect you to do anything, you can, of course, make what you will of this phrase, but it's a perfectly fine wording, that has numerous instances in the corpus of the Polish language, which means it's used a lot in press and books


Where did I ever state otherwise?  I only said it sounded bizarre to me. And it does. I'm sure there are many more expressions which sound odd to my ears even though they do appear in the language.



dreamlike said:


> _Polscy sportowcy zadomowili się w wiosce olimpijskiej._



Strangely enough, this sentence sounds better to me with 'w' than 'we'. I think it depends on the context.


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## dreamlike

R.O said:


> I first read your post right after you wrote it (only didn't have time to reply at the time); I could swear it was 'serious'...


No, it was 'reasonable' all along. You must have been seeing things!  Never mind that, though. 



R.O said:


> Where did I ever state otherwise?  I only said it sounded bizarre to me. And it does. I'm sure there are many more expressions which sound odd to my ears even though they do appear in the language.


Fair enough. I thought you were trying to infer that there's something wrong 'w wiosce'.



> Strangely enough, this sentence sounds better to me with 'w' than 'we'. I think it depends on the context.


'We' would be wrong here, since, as NotNow has already noted, 'wioska' does not begin with a consonant cluster.


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## marco_2

So, to sum up:

*we Wrocławiu *but: *w Warszawie
we Fromborku *but: *w Falenicy
*They are of course exceptions like *we Lwowie *(though: *w Lwówku*), *we mnie, we mgle  *and many others.
The same is for "z / ze":

*ze Stanów *but *z Sanoka
**ze Śremu  *but  *z Sieniawy
ze Szczecina  *but* z Szanghaju
**ze Zgierza *but  *z Zakopanego,

*There are some exceptions like *ze Lwowa, ze łzami, **ze mnie, **ze mną, ze sobą*, although *z sobą *is also used.

However, in many Polish dialects only *we *is used, that's why you can hear **we wodzie ze sokiem*, *we środę* *and so on.


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## marco_2

P.S. There are of course much more exceptions and fixed phrases I didn't mention, e.g. we say *Mam to we krwi, *but *W krwi pacjenta wykryto śladowe ilości substancji trującej. *Some of them you should learn by heart.


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## dreamlike

marco_2 said:


> P.S. There are of course much more exceptions and fixed phrases I didn't mention, e.g. we say *Mam to we krwi, *but *W krwi pacjenta wykryto śladowe ilości substancji trującej. *Some of them you should learn by heart.



Good point


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## Thomas1

Interesting, I'd use 'we krwi pacjenta'.
Also, the following wording comes to mind: Badanie kierowcy wykryło X promili alkoholu we krwi.
I think I'd use 'w' in a different way: To narzekanie weszło mu w krew, ciągle użala się nad swoim losem.
Something interesting:


> we forma przyimka: w, używana w połączeniu z wyrazami zaczynającymi się  od spółgłoski w lub f, po której następuje inna spółgłoska oraz  zwyczajowo w połączeniu z wyrazami zaczynającymi się od dwóch innych  spółgłosek; regionalnie (na południu Polski) także przed wyrazami  rozpoczynającymi się od spółgłoski w lub f: We wsi, we Wrocławiu, we  Francji, we Włoszech, we włosach. We wtorek. We Lwowie (nie: w Lwowie).  We środę a. w środę, we czwartek a. w czwartek. We dwie (w grupie dwu  kobiet, dziewcząt), ale: w dwie strony świata. We trzech, we czterech (w  grupie trzech, czterech mężczyzn, chłopców), ale: (powieść) w trzech, w  czterech tomach. We wszystko, we wszystkim, we mnie. reg. małopol. we  wodzie, we Wiedniu, we fabryce. · W połączeniu z formą jednosylabową  przyimek we może być akcentowany, można też akcentować tę formę  jednosylabową po nim, np.: we wsi [wym. we wsi a. we wsi], we śnie [wym.  we śnie a. we śnie], ale we mnie [wym. we mnie, nie: we mnie].
> | D Kult. III, 289; M Ojcz., 17; Ma. Pol., 51; SWK, 342.
> Nowy słownik poprawnej polszczyzny PWN c Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN SA





dreamlike said:


> Thomas, I see your point, but to me the only, say, standard (as I understand it) preposition we would here is '*w* wiosce' rather than '*na* wiosce', the former being extremely colloquial and therefore fit for the purpose of stylizing the text - indeed, that author might have very well written 'na wiosce' on purpose. Frankly, I see no other explanation.


Well, I thought this had been established earlier on in the disussion.
Anyway, I hope I didn't suggest it was otherwise.


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