# 自便



## Sammo

*自便*


If this is said to someone before they themselves leave, can this be translated like, "As you were"?


Thanks in advance.


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## xiaolijie

It means "do as you please/ suit yourself". So again, what that really means depends on the context.


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## Sammo

Right, but like I said in the context... if I see you and say goodbye to you by saying that, would it mean in that context, "As you were"?


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## indigoduck

Sammo said:


> Right, but like I said in the context... if I see you and say goodbye to you by saying that, would it mean in that context, "As you were"?


 
I've never heard of an expression "as you were".  Can you tell us what that means ?


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## viajero_canjeado

"As you were" is an expression which appears most often in a military context. It means "resume the more relaxed position you were in prior to my arrival"; so it's usually said to subalterns who are at attention upon the departure of a superior officer.


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## Sammo

viajero canjeado, 
Do you think "As you were" is an equivalent to "自便" in the context I described?


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## viajero_canjeado

The context you described was very general - in a normal setting among friends, family or acquaintances it would be more appropriate to use the suggestions given in post #2. The scenarios in which 自便 could be accurately translated "as you were" are, in my opinion, limited to a military-type environment such as I mentioned in my previous post.


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## Sammo

How about if the context is very formal and not informal like between family and friends?  Then "As you were" would be appropriate?

Because what was suggested in post 2 are not phrases to use right before you leave someone's presence.


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## viajero_canjeado

It appears the thread has evolved from a question about translation to one about English usage. If you would like to solicit ideas about how to use English to say goodbye in a formal setting, I recommend you ask directly on the English-only forum and clearly describe the context you have in mind.


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## Sammo

No, you're misunderstanding me.  The same question remains.

I am asking if 自便 means "As you were" in the context I described.


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## viajero_canjeado

With regard to the context you described, the same vagueness remains. 

Is it a military setting? If so, I think "as you were" fits. If not, what exactly is the situation - business meeting, international conference, job interview? How exactly does the speaker say it - stoically, jocularly, sarcastically? What relevant events happened just before the speaker's departure - was he offended, interrupted by an emergency cell phone call?

This is the type of information that's helpful for accurate translation. As for being able to use the options given in post #2, I can easily imagine situations in which they could be used to mean "goodbye", especially if spoken abruptly after having a row with someone else.


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## Sammo

The situation:

Bill wants Mike to help clear his name on something because of a supposed lie that has been spread on Bill. So he goes to Mike but Mike doesn't really get this opportunity because of an interruption but the matter is settled indirectly. Although both persons never really speak to each during this event, Mike says to Bill, "自便" and then leaves to go back to another matter he was in the middle of before this event put it on hold.

Both Bill and Mike are highly respected in their professions and speak to each other with much respect.


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## xiaolijie

Ok, *自便* can be used in response to someone's saying farewell in this kind of sense: _"Well, if you insist on leaving, I won't keep you!"_


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## BODYholic

Sammo said:


> No, you're misunderstanding me.  The same question remains.
> 
> I am asking if 自便 means "As you were" in the context I described.


自便's direct translation is "to help oneself" but it is usually spoken with underlying meaning.

#1
A very good friend came to visit me at my place but I've to make an urgent telephone call. Before moving aside to do so, I can say "把这里当自己家，请自便。" 

自便, by itself, is very coarse. The speaker's tone plays apart in the interpretation of this word. Also, introducing "请" is a good way to soften the tone, if that's what you want to.

#2
When you are engaging in an heated argument, you get so pissed and decided to leave the other party alone. You may say "那你自便吧。". You are effectively telling the other party that you are not interested in what he said and he can continue to indulge in his own dreams. Here 自便 is being sarcastic.

I know you asked something about 'As you were' but I don't know what does that mean. I hope by giving these examples, it helps you understand the meaning. Perhaps you have the answer by now.


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## Sammo

BODYholic, 
Thank you but neither of your examples fit in the context I mean. In post #12 I described a very specific situation.


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## BODYholic

Sammo said:


> The situation:
> 
> Bill wants Mike to help clear his name on something because of a supposed lie that has been spread on Bill. So he goes to Mike but Mike doesn't really get this opportunity because of an interruption but the matter is settled indirectly. Although both persons never really speak to each during this event, Mike says to Bill, "自便" and then leaves to go back to another matter he was in the middle of before this event put it on hold.
> 
> *Both Bill and Mike are highly respected in their professions and speak to each other with much respect.*



For a start and as I've also mentioned before, 自便 is coarse and hence, colloquial and informal.

Without even going in to the details of the given scenario, your last sentence already decided that the word 自便 is unlikely to fit in to your context.

If you so insist, Mike could say "我现在没空，您请自便。". Although the sentence means to say the speaker is busy and suggested Bill to do whatever he deems fit, native Chinese speakers typically perceive this as a 逐客令. And my take is that someone professional and respectable would not have said this.

If you read carefully, in fact, your scenario is similar to the first example that I've given above. The only thing that set the two stories apart is, probably, the characters' relationship.


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## Sammo

> Without even going in to the details of the given scenario, your last sentence already decided that the word 自便 is unlikely to fit in to your context.


 
It might not be likely but it is exactly what is said in this scenario. 



> If you read carefully, in fact, your scenario is similar to the first example that I've given above. The only thing that set the two stories apart is, probably, the characters' relationship.


 
I did read it and the reason it doesn't fit into what you suggested is because Mike only says this "自便".  He doesn't say all of this you wrote, " 把这里当自己家，请自便。"


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## BODYholic

Sammo said:


> It might not be likely but it is exactly what is said in this scenario.
> 
> I did read it and the reason it doesn't fit into what you suggested is because Mike only says this &quot;自便&quot;.  He doesn't say all of this you wrote, &quot; 把这里当自己家，请自便。&quot;


 
 I'm confused. Honestly. By all accounts, the words do not fit in to your context. And if you insist that do be so, I could only conclude that ..
1. The speaker is not a native Chinese speaker. 
2. The speaker does not know what he/she is talking.


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## BODYholic

BODYholic said:


> 自便's direct translation is "to help oneself" but it is usually spoken with underlying meaning.
> 
> #1
> A very good friend came to visit me at my place but I've to make an urgent telephone call. Before moving aside to do so, I can say "把这里当自己家，请自便。"
> 
> 自便, by itself, is very coarse. The speaker's tone plays apart in the interpretation of this word. Also, introducing "请" is a good way to soften the tone, if that's what you want to.



This is not to answer Sammo but since we are on the subject of 自便, I would like to further elaborate on the above point.

Given the exact scenario, if the person visiting me is my grandma (instead of a good friend). I can safely say that most Chinese will find it extremely rude to say "请自便" to their grandmothers.

Novice learners have to be mindful when using words like 自便 and 不送了. These are words that can be offensive/rude if they are not employed with tact.


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## Ghabi

BODYholic said:


> Novice learners have to be mindful when using words like 自便 and 不送了. These are words that can be offensive/rude if they are not employed with tact.


Good advice!


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## Razzle Storm

Sammo said:


> It might not be likely but it is exactly what is said in this scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> I did read it and the reason it doesn't fit into what you suggested is because Mike only says this "自便".  He doesn't say all of this you wrote, " 把这里当自己家，请自便。"



Maybe if you provided the context entirely in Chinese, instead of English and then one word in Chinese, it would help clear things up.


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## xiaolijie

> Maybe if you provided the context entirely in Chinese, instead of English and then one word in Chinese, it would help clear things up.


I think Sammo's trying to avoid the posts being deleted for citing too much & too often. Sammo, whatever text you're working on, is it available on the internet? What about a link to it? You won't break any rules posting the link relating to your questions.


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## indigoduck

Sammo said:


> *自便*
> 
> 
> If this is said to someone before they themselves leave, can this be translated like, "As you were"?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
So without going around in circles, pretty much what we're saying is... those two words alone can't mean "As you were" without supporting phrases.  And if it requires supporting phrases, this is not a good option for the translation of "as you were".


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## Sammo

BODYholic and I corresponded in PM and he got to understand in full the context that I was talking about. Indeed, like I wrote before, the context I described the speaker only says, "自便". No additional phrases except the context that it was in.

His reply to me (and I hope he won't mind me repeating it here) was: 

_The superficial meaning would be "Please continue where you left behind"._

This is exactly what, "As you were" means.


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## Razzle Storm

Sammo said:


> BODYholic and I corresponded in PM and he got to understand in full the context that I was talking about. Indeed, like I wrote before, the context I described the speaker only says, "自便". No additional phrases except the context that it was in.
> 
> His reply to me (and I hope he won't mind me repeating it here) was:
> 
> _The superficial meaning would be "Please continue where you left behind"._
> 
> This is exactly what, "As you were" means.



And like viajero_canjeado mentioned before, "As you were" is almost never heard outside of a military setting, even among respected professionals. I think there's probably translations better suited to the context, but if you're really pleased with "as you were", that's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. The meaning is correct, anyway.


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## Sammo

Razzle Storm,
if you feel you want to respond, how about offering an alternative translation?  No point in repeating what was written before as it offers nothing progressive to the thread.


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