# OMNIA / OMNE EX MENDACIA



## CronopioMenor

Which one is correct? OMINA EX MENDACIA, or OMNE EX MENDACIA?

Thanks.


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## Grugno

It depends from what you mean. The first phrase means "omens/presages come from lies". The second "everything comes from lies". Maybe there is a third option, in latin, which is very near the second, but in a "better" latin: omnia ex mendacia.


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## wandle

CronopioMenor said:


> Which one is correct? OMINA EX MENDACIA, or OMNE EX MENDACIA?


I am afraid none of the above is correct Latin.
The word _*mendacia*_ exists only as the neuter plural (nom., voc. or acc.) of the adjective *mendax*, as in, for example, Cicero's phrase _*mendacia visa*_, 'deceptive visions'.

What is the idea you wish to express? I feel sure this has arisen in a previous thread.


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## Grugno

It is surely true that medax is an adj, but used in the neuter form it works as a noun. I give you some examples of it used as a noun (e.g.):

- prodigiosa loquor veterum *mendacia *vatum; (Ov. Am. III, 6, 17);
- non ego fluminei referam *mendacia *cygni (Ov. Her, VIII, 66);
- Nam et firmissima quaeque memoriae iudicis inculcanda sunt et praestandum quidquid in actione promisimus et refellenda *mendacia*: (Quint, VI, 4, 5)

All the examples quoted are good, but expecially the first, where you can notice that mendacia governs in turn an adj (prodigiosa), which shows it works as a noun.


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## wandle

Certainly it works as a noun, as Latin adjectives regularly do, but as I said 


wandle said:


> The word _*mendacia*_ exists only as the neuter plural (nom., voc. or acc.)


The genuine examples quoted are all in the accusative case.
The expression *ex mendacia* is not possible because _*ex*_ takes the ablative. It would have to be _*mendacibus*_, but even so it is not on the face of it good Latin. 
To make any progress on this, we need to know what *CronopioMenor *intends to say.


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## Grugno

You are definitely right. I am sorry: I focused on the "adj-question" and I didn't take care about case.


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## CronopioMenor

Ok, first of all, I've made a terrible mistake. It's OMNIA, not "OMINA" (can't find the "edit" button). 
Yes, this has been in a previous post; I've made some advances, but I got thist new... confussion, now. 

Thing is, what is meant to be said is "Everything IS a lie", which is a bit different from "Everything ARE lies". 

I got a suggestion for the first one (from verb "to be"): OMNIA SUNT MENDACIA (Everything are lies), instead of "OMNIA EX MENDACIA" (Everything COMES FROM lies). But, nevertheless, it's still "lies", in plural, and I mean a more general, universal, unique concept of LIE (singular). 
As spanish derives from latin, I guessed one could express this (gramatically) in a similar way as nowadays we do: "TODO ES UNA MENTIRA"... Something as OMNE EST MENDACIUM. But I guess this is not correct. 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Thanks!


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## Grugno

Omne est mendacium it's wrong because mendax is the same for all the three genders. The correct form is "Omne mendax est", but similar to this one is also "Cuncta mendacia sunt". Another possibility I think is "unum quidque mendax est", which refers to everything take one by one. Eventually, you can also turn the sentence in the negative form: nihil mendax non est.


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## bearded

wandle said:


> It would have to be _*mendacibus*_


There is a neuter noun 'mendacium' (lie), so it could well be _ex mendacio _or _ex mendaciis._


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## wandle

bearded man said:


> There is a neuter noun 'mendacium' (lie)


True. I am still unsure what CronopioMenor intends to say, though.

Suppose one person gives another some account of past events.
The other might reply _*Istud omne mendacium est*_: 'Everything you say is a lie'.


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## CronopioMenor

I think we are getting quite close... Just one doubt: are both "OMNE MENDACIUM EST" and "OMNE MENDAX EST" correct?
If so, one can also write them down as: "OMNE EST MENDACIUM" and "OMNE EST MENDAX". 

In spanish one can say "Todo es mentira (mendacium?)" as well as "Todo es mendaz (mendax?)"... Same in latin?


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## wandle

I cannot comment on the Spanish, but _*omne est mendax*_ 'everything is deceptive' uses two adjectives, whereas _*omne est mendacium*_ 'everything is a lie' uses an adjective and a noun.
The latter is stronger and I would say more natural.


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## CronopioMenor

A poster wrote, before deleting, "I feel that 'mendax' refers to people rather than to things/stories".
I feel this statement, as well as Wandle's, compare perfectly to spanish (I apologize once more to make the parallel between latin and spanish, but as you know they are quite alike); adjective (mendax/mendaz) and noun (mendacium/mentira). 

So, *OMNE EST MENDACIVM *is DEFINITELY the one?

Thanks in advance.


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## wandle

It is definitely a good translation for 'everything is a lie'.


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