# People's names gender change/cambios de sexo de los nombres de personas



## Roi Marphille

hey, this is just a thought for "cultural issues"

don't you find sometimes difficult to learn if a person is male or female by his/her written name?
In my job I contact with many people from China and other Asian countries and normally I don't know wheather they are a man or a woman. I guess it happens all the time to many people when addressing someone from other cultures.
Do you guys have some anecdote about it?
I was sending emails for ages to an Asian provider and when we first spoke by phone I realised that he, in fact..was she!

For latin names, I guess that male names containing "Maríá" may be confusing..such as "José María", "Luis María".

And another thought..
Why in the world Americans use indistinctly male names for females and viceversa??? is that for making it funnier? I honestly don't get it. 

Which are the most confusing names?

cheers,

Roi


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## pajarita

Hola Roi. Yes, I have had some experience with cases of "mistaken gender." 
My grandmother from Portugal came to the US at a time when people really didn't want to be foreign or different--immigrants wanted to assimilate quickly. Her surname was Antonio and she took the first name "Toni" because that's what all of the non-Portuguese kids in the bairro called her and she wanted to fit in. "Tony" is traditionally a masculine name (shortened form of Anthony). Here in the US, there are a handful of names that are traditionally masculine but are also shortened forms of feminine names: Sam (short for Samantha), Max (short for Maxine), Jo (short for Josephine or Josie). I have also met men named Kelley and Shannon, which are traditionally feminine, Irish names. My first time in Spain, I admit that I found it a bit strange that some men had what I thought were feminine middle names, but then again, many of my relatives here have middle names that are not traditionally given to that gender but they are names that have been in the family for a long time. My own name is a little bit "gender neutral" and I sometimes get e-mails addresses to "Mr." or clearly intended for a male recipient. I can imagine that names we are not familiar with in other cultures can be confusing, especially if they do not follow the ending pattern "-a" for fem., "-o" for masculine like lots of the Romance languages do. 
Ciao, 
Pajarita


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## GenJen54

> Originally Posted by *Roi Marphille* And another thought..
> Why in the world Americans use indistinctly male names for females and viceversa??? is that for making it funnier? I honestly don't get it.



Grrrrr....  You're speaking in gross generalities here!  I believe this occurs in all parts of the English-speaking world. 

While it is true many younger American families try to find names for their children that are "trendy" or "modern," I certainly don't think they are doing it to be funny. Naming one's child is serious business in the US.

In some instances, these "gender-ambiguous" names as I shall call them, are simply shortened versions of longer names, which are gender-specific. 

For example: 

Chris is short for both Christian/Christopher (male) and Christina (female).
Pat is short for both Patrick (male) and Patricia (female).
Sam is short for both Samuel (male) and Samantha  (female).
Danny or Dan is short for Daniel (male).  Dani is short for Danielle/Daniella (female). 

I can go on.

Other names may have the appearance of being neutral, when in actuality, they are not.  

For example:  

Don (male) is short for Donald.  Dawn is the female version of the same name.  They are spelled differently, but sound alike. 

Likewise, Sean/Shaun (male) sounds the same as Shawn (female). 

In certain other instances, these names could be part of a family tradition. For example, my maiden name (last name before I got married) was "Lindsey." I might consider using this name as a _middle_ name for a male child, or a first or middle name for a female child. I am the last person in my family with this name, and the only female. As such, if I do not carry it to any child I have, it will be lost from our family in future generations.

Another name in my family is "Laine." I could use this as a first or middle name for a boy, or a middle name for a girl, but not a first name. 

FYI - you can find the "Top Ten" baby names assigned in the US for both boys and girls by going here.  I think you will see, there is not really a gender-ambiguous name among them.

While I will admit that many Americans, especially among certain sub-cultures, choose very strange names, again, I don't think they are trying to do this to be funny. Those that might are in the obvious minority. 

If you would like to give me some more specific examples of these gender-ambiguous names that are causing you such grief, I would be happy to assit you.


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## meili

I agree with Ms GenJen! 

But I am not an American 

I have a friend whose name is Noel - and she is a girl.  Her parents named her this because she was born on Christmas Day - and she is already the 9th girl of the 9 girl-siblings of her parents.  (See how her parents would have really wanted her to be a boy!).  But, she likes her name, very much!

We also have a female neighbor whose name is George - short for Georgia.

Back in College, our Layout Artist's name is Francis Claire - and he is male.  (I just forgot why he was named with a Claire, but I think it was something religious).


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Meili*Back in College, our Layout Artist's name is Francis Claire - and he is male. (I just forgot why he was named with a Claire, but I think it was something religious).



You're right, Meili.

Francis is another name that can go "both ways," in essence. 

Francis is a traditional Catholic and/or Italian name.

Franc*i*s with an "i" is the male form.  It is often shortened to "Frank."

Franc*e*s with an "e" is the female form.  It is often shortened to "Fran."  My mother-in-law, Franc*e*s (she goes by "Fran"), who is Italian, was named after her grandfather, whose name was Franc*i*s.

P.S.  Meili,  I have a cousin named No_el_' (with accent on the "el.") *She* was also born on Christmas, like your friend.  In the US, however, Noel (the male form) is often pronounced like _No_'ul.

Many, many names take both male and female forms.


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## Roi Marphille

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> If you would like to give me some more specific examples of these gender-ambiguous names that are causing you such grief, I would be happy to assit you.



Hi Ms GenJen,
First of all, thanks for your well documented and worthy replay. 
I must apologise if I somehow offended some readers with my let's call it unappropiate using of the adjective "funny". 

Family and religious links are indeed some of the most common taken roots to name a new-born child. 
I would add as well, "political" reasons as another root. Mainly used in very special periods and countries. One example is the name "Roberto" in Italy during the Fascist period. If you split the name, you learn that it is composed by RO for Roma, BER for Berlin and TO for Tokio. Which were, as you may know, three allied countries fighting in the same WWII side. It does not mean that all the new-born Roberto were named for THAT reason of course, but many were.
Other names are linked to Nationalism feelings (sometimes wrongly) or to freedom feelings as well. One example you can find it in Catalonia in 1975- 1980. General Franco who ruled a fascist regime in Spain, died in 1975. After that, Catalan language was no longer forbbiden so many people named their male children "Jordi" (English: George,  Castilian and Portuguese: Jorge). The reason is that Jordi is the patron of Catalonia and it did represent freedom and relief during that period.It does not mean either that all new-born Jordi were named for THAT reason of course, but many were.
I bet there are thousands of examples from many parts of the world.

Well anyway, my goal of the thread was not to find the origins of the "naming" but to provide anecdotes related to the confusing names for other cultures. 
Reg. what has been told about the "American-naming-system", it is not my aim to put controversy here. I have seen that some people do not take big importance of the theoretical gender-attribute of a name. This is not a big trauma for me nor for anyone. It is just odd and curious from my cultural perspective.


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## GenJen54

No offense taken, Roi, but it did give me a wee grumble. 

I agree, in some countries, particularly whose roots are latin-based, genders are easliy identified by names, because there is a specific distinction. 

Mario - Maria
Donatello - Donatella

As pajarita mentioned, it is easier to identify gender with these types of names than it is some other names who do not have these distinctions. 

You also have to consider that in these countries, even the language itself is more "gender" based, if you will, because of the use of gender-based articles which do not exist in English. 

La universidad, la escuela, la biblioteca, el camion, el cine, el juego, etc.

I think many people in English speaking countries have names whose roots are more Saxon or Germanic, because that is where our language stems from. These names do not necessarily have gender distinctions, even though they are quite common in English speaking countries. 

While some names are particularly gender-ambiguous, others aren't.  

I think if you take a look at a lot of English/Irish/Scottish names, you'll find this.  

Aaron (male) Erin (female).
Adrian (male)  Adrianne (female). 

Their spellings are gender specific, but their pronunciations are not. 

Again, I don't think people necessarily set out to find names that are gender-ambiguous (although some might), but names which are more meaningful and prevalent in English-speaking societies just happen to be that way. 

A lot of times, people choose a name based on what it means.  A good list of "English" names, and their meanings, can be found here.

There is one particular theory, however, that states that women whose names end in an "ee" sound, such as Cindy, Susie, Sally, Christy, etc. don't necessarily do as well in the business world because their names are perceived as too "girly" and diminuitive. I don't know if that holds water, though. 

Of course, we also have the truly bizarre minority of people (mostly "artistic folk") who choose to name their children things like: 

Pilot Inspector
Moon Unit
Dweezil
Jett Blue
and of course, Apple.    (I'll admit, I kind of like Apple).


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## garryknight

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Of course, we also have the truly bizarre minority of people (mostly "artistic folk") who choose to name their children things like:


Poppy Honey and Daisy Boo...
They're lovely names right now, but what will they think when they get to age 10 or so?


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## Roi Marphille

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> and of course, Apple.    (I'll admit, I kind of like Apple).



I like Apple too!   
In fact, I have an Apple computer.
btw, Apple in my language is beautiful too, it's "poma".


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## mari.kit

you know, i also have a friend whose name is _jennifer_, but he's a male. Same w/ _Nico Dominique_, she's a female.. a lot of times, her name is listed on the "boy's name" in our teacher's class record. so when our teacher starts checking attendance, and calls her name, i remember my teacher saying..: "now, you're a girl!" jajaja! 

I wouldn't mind giving my kids (in the future) names that are unique also.. in fact, i've started my list already..


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## Elisa68

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> No offense taken, Roi, but it did give me a wee grumble.
> 
> I agree, in some countries, particularly whose roots are latin-based, genders are easliy identified by names, because there is a specific distinction.
> 
> Mario - Maria
> Donatello - Donatella
> 
> ...


 
Unfortunately, it is not always like this. In Italy, for example, Andrea is for male , but in other countries Andrea is for female (and that is a bit strange since the origin of the name, if I am not mistaken, is Greek and, I think, it means valorous man!)


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## Honeylhanz

> Roi Marphille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey, this is just a thought for "cultural issues"
> don't you find sometimes difficult to learn if a person is male or female by his/her written name?
> 
> 
> 
> _I have had some experience with cases of "mistaken gender". _
> 
> 
> 
> In my job I contact with many people from China and other Asian countries and normally I don't know wheather they are a man or a woman. I guess it happens all the time to many people when addressing someone from other cultures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _yes you are right. i also experience that in my job. sometimes i'm addressing my customer as ma'am because he sounded like a woman. if the customer will react thats the time i would realized that i address "maam" wrong._
> _sometimes i cannot recognized the voice of the customer over the phone that is why sometimes i address the customer wrong_.
> _this happened not only in written name, also with their voice._
Click to expand...


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## Phryne

garryknight said:
			
		

> Poppy Honey and Daisy Boo...
> They're lovely names right now, but what will they think when they get to age 10 or so?


   

I have others!

Michael Hutchence's kid is _Heavenly Hiraani Tiger Lily_. His (ex) wife's kids with Bob Geldof are _Fifi Trixibelle_ Geldof - _Peaches Honeyblossom _Geldof  - _Pixie _Geldof.

Frank Zappa's kids are: _Moon Unit_ Zappa, _Diva _Zappa and _Dweezil _Zappa. (These names were in GenJen54's message. Sorry, I hadn't read that! )

What the heck?!  

Saludos 

María José (female)


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## pajarita

How about names that are appropriate (or inappropriate!!  ) to one's profession?  In the town where my husband grew up, there is a doctor named Dr. Paine.


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## gotitadeleche

A lady I used to know had twins and named the daughter Fire Genie. She did not know she was going to have twins, so when the little boy made his appearence she named him One Free.  

Then there was the prominent Texas family a generation or so back. Texas Govenor Hogg named his daughter Ima.


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## meili

My Aunt/Godmother Clarinda has named her children with the initials J & C (from her husband's and her name). Their eldest son is Joseph Calvin, the daughter Jade Carlmellee, the third Jan Christian, then Juan Carlos, and then comes the youngest.

We didn't know that she was pregnant, or I didn't know as I rarely see her because I was so busy with school. One day, with me in my complete uniform, I was asked to go to my Godmother's house because she was alone - her children in school, her husband (an Air Force) at the camp - and she was going to deliver a baby! 

(It was an all new experience for me - as I saw :WOW: my cousin slip out of her mother coated with watery and slimy substance  ) Now the problem: as the baby came so sudden, my Godparents has no name prepared for my baby cousin! (BTW, he's a boy, jeje). Now my immediate brain action: Since my Aunt prefers that the first name (or first 2 names) be J.C., and having just watched a Van Dam film the night before - I suggested the name 'Jean Claude'. 

And so is now Van-Van's (my cousin's pet name) name.

Problem: His teachers usually writes his name under _Girls_! We don't know, Jean Claude looks so masculine to us anyway. Guess they were confused with Jean. Maybe. 

I think they just don't know Van Dam's first two names! jeje. 

Is it Van Dam or Van Damme. Neither?  Please correct me.


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## Amityville

Having to communicate with people of indeterminate gender is only a minor problem really, you can always just ask without causing offence if it's not obvious from the name. What's worse is if you then speak on the telephone and you STILL can't tell whether it's a man or woman.
ps I like the name 'Patience', just the sound of it - but how could I ever call a child that ?


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## garryknight

pajarita said:
			
		

> How about names that are appropriate (or inappropriate!!  ) to one's profession?  In the town where my husband grew up, there is a doctor named Dr. Paine.


Here in the UK, the magazine New Scientist gave this phenomenon the name "nominative determinism" and listed several examples every week for months. There were a lot of doctors and dentists called Paine or Payne.



			
				Amityville said:
			
		

> What's worse is if you then speak on the telephone and you STILL can't tell whether it's a man or woman.


What's even worse is when you come face to face with them and you still can't tell...


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## pajarita

garryknight said:
			
		

> What's even worse is when you come face to face with them and you still can't tell...


 

Hahahaha  !  Fair point, garryknight!


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## Amityville

garryknight said:
			
		

> Poppy Honey and Daisy Boo...
> They're lovely names right now, but what will they think when they get to age 10 or so?


 
They're good names for dollies and teddies. Maybe that's what their parents want.


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## Merlin

I had a classmate back in high school and his name is Junross. He's a guy and each year after enrollment, he finds his name on the girls list. A combination of his parents name Jun and Rose. It's really funny that they thought he was a gay!  Another friend of mine has a male cousin named Gladys. As expected, people thought he was a female.
But I guess it's not that bad. I personally want to name my children names of the opposite sex. Like if it's a boy I'll name him Tracy or Angel. And for the girls I think it's cool if I name them Frances or Joey. I might make it two names to be unique.


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## plaermavida

Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> Hi Ms GenJen,
> .
> Other names are linked to Nationalism feelings (sometimes wrongly) or to freedom feelings as well. One example you can find it in Catalonia in 1975- 1980. General Franco who ruled a fascist regime in Spain, died in 1975. After that, Catalan language was no longer forbbiden so many people named their male children "Jordi" (English: George, Castilian and Portuguese: Jorge). The reason is that Jordi is the patron of Catalonia and it did represent freedom and relief during that period.It does not mean either that all new-born Jordi were named for THAT reason of course, but many were.
> I bet there are thousands of examples from many parts of the world.
> 
> .


Well, the freadom was the catalan name, not the name as symbol, thew was a lot of Pau (male= Paul, female=Peace), Joan(John), Mireia,Empar(and not Amparo),Mercè (and not Mercedes),etc.
Sorry, my english is horrible, i know


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## asm

It is true that Spanish names are easier than English names to learn gender. HOwever, we also have exceptions. You mentioned, Maria Jose is for women, while Jose Maria is for men. But Guadalupe, the most common Mexican name for women, was used by our first president: Guadalupe Victoria, and guess the gender ...
In this global community, with nicknames instead of real names, this issue will be the norm. Do you know my gender just by my ASM nickname?




			
				Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> hey, this is just a thought for "cultural issues"
> 
> don't you find sometimes difficult to learn if a person is male or female by his/her written name?
> In my job I contact with many people from China and other Asian countries and normally I don't know wheather they are a man or a woman. I guess it happens all the time to many people when addressing someone from other cultures.
> Do you guys have some anecdote about it?
> I was sending emails for ages to an Asian provider and when we first spoke by phone I realised that he, in fact..was she!
> 
> For latin names, I guess that male names containing "Maríá" may be confusing..such as "José María", "Luis María".
> 
> And another thought..
> Why in the world Americans use indistinctly male names for females and viceversa??? is that for making it funnier? I honestly don't get it.
> 
> Which are the most confusing names?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Roi


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## pajarita

ASM, I cannot guess your gender just given your nickname.  And I believe you're right about nicknames--I've met two people nicknamed "Twiggy" (one male one fem), a "Worm" (fem) a "Chippy" (fem) and a "Lover" (male). 

I don't want to get too far afield of the original topic here, but friend of mine, who is a member of several fora himself, believes he can often tell whether he is interacting with a male or a female based on word selection, "tone" and use of emoticons.  I don't know that I put much faith in that, but it certainly would make for an interesting anthropological/sociological study, no?


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## Roi Marphille

pajarita said:
			
		

> I don't want to get too far afield of the original topic here, but friend of mine, who is a member of several fora himself, believes he can often tell whether he is interacting with a male or a female based on word selection, "tone" and use of emoticons.  I don't know that I put much faith in that, but it certainly would make for an interesting anthropological/sociological study, no?


yes, indeed pajarita! as long as we can't check hand-writing..I bet your friend has some good tricks for his particular research.
btw, I'm a man and...SINGLE!


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## asm

Your friend is very sensitive to those covert signs we send through written language, some times I cannot even know the sex of some people I just meet "in the street". I hope he is right 99.9 % of the time, not as the gynecologist who promised to tell you the babies' gender (with 50% of reliability).



Somebody told me, unfortunately I cannot recall the source, that we as human beings have the tendency to figure out the gender of our contact when we interact with others. Our stress increases when we cannot determine the gender of the "other" (please, this is a tendency, not a black or white theory). 

This happens to me, when I see a person whom I cannot determine gender, I cannot approach him/her the same way as if I knew it. I am not saying about gays, I am just talking about the times when you cannot just distinguish. Is that natural or a learned behavior?







 






			
				pajarita said:
			
		

> ASM, I cannot guess your gender just given your nickname. And I believe you're right about nicknames--I've met two people nicknamed "Twiggy" (one male one fem), a "Worm" (fem) a "Chippy" (fem) and a "Lover" (male).
> 
> I don't want to get too far afield of the original topic here, but friend of mine, who is a member of several fora himself, believes he can often tell whether he is interacting with a male or a female based on word selection, "tone" and use of emoticons. I don't know that I put much faith in that, but it certainly would make for an interesting anthropological/sociological study, no?


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## Like an Angel

Well, recently I listened to an interview where a person phoned to the radio to ask a question to *her* rock star idol, the name of the person was Tracy, I waited for a sweet voice that says "Hi, this is Tracy", but then I listened to a kind of _Barry White_ saying "Hi, this is Tracy", was hilarious  ... I didn't have a clue that Tracy was for males too.


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## pajarita

> Roi Marphille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, I'm a man and...SINGLE! [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look out, ladies! Roi is on the loose!!
> 
> 
> ASM: yes, my friend tells me that he is very sensitive to such signs, though he has never (to my knowledge) tested his accuracy. Very interesting RE elevated stress when interacting with persons of indeterminate gender. I had never heard that before and would love to know more.
Click to expand...


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## Merlin

Like an Angel said:
			
		

> Well, recently I listened to an interview where a person phoned to the radio to ask a question to *her* rock star idol, the name of the person was Tracy, I waited for a sweet voice that says "Hi, this is Tracy", but then I listened to a kind of _Barry White_ saying "Hi, this is Tracy", was hilarious  ... I didn't have a clue that Tracy was for males too.


Exactly. That's why I like Tracy very much. Have you heard of Tracy McGrady? He's an NBA basketball player for the Houston Rockets. He's a great player. I like basketball that's why I'll name my son after him.


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## Amityville

Merlin said:
			
		

> I personally want to name my children names of the opposite sex. Like if it's a boy I'll name him Tracy or Angel. And for the girls I think it's cool if I name them Frances or Joey. I might make it two names to be unique.


 


> I like basketball that's why I'll name my son after him


 
Does the child's mother have any choice in the matter ?


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## LanceKitty

There are names with their male and female counterpart as mentioned previously (Francis/Frances, John/Joan, etc)... and yet there are also names that, to _me_, were forced to have a counterpart by simply adding a letter and shifting the accent or stress on the name.

Examples:
Justin (M) = Jus_tine_ (F) 
Martin (M) = Mar_tine_ (F)

The things we do for uniqueness, eh?


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *LanceKitty*
> Examples:
> Justin (M) = Justine (F)
> Martin (M) = Martine (F)



I'm not sure about this.  I believe Justine and Martine are perfext examples of French names for females.  I don't know they are "forced" forms of their male counter-parts. 

The name "Michaela" is possibly a closer example.


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## LanceKitty

Hmmm... now that you put it in that context, it doesn't sound forced, but _French._  Thank you GenJen  

As for *Michaela,* that 's a good example knowing that MICHAEL's female counterpart is MICHELLE.


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## Merlin

Amityville said:
			
		

> Does the child's mother have any choice in the matter ?


Of course. We already talked about it. She like it too. Naming our children in a unique way. Well time will tell. We might change our mind.


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## Outsider

pajarita said:
			
		

> Hola Roi. Yes, I have had some experience with cases of "mistaken gender."
> My grandmother from Portugal came to the US at a time when people really didn't want to be foreign or different--immigrants wanted to assimilate quickly. Her surname was Antonio and she took the first name "Toni" because that's what all of the non-Portuguese kids in the bairro called her and she wanted to fit in. "Tony" is traditionally a masculine name (shortened form of Anthony).


I have heard some women be called "a Toni" in Portugal, although it's true that usually "Ton*i*" refers to a man. Here's another funny thing: women named Maria José are often called "a Zé", even though Zé (short for José) is a masculine name. 



			
				pajarita said:
			
		

> Here in the US, there are a handful of names that are traditionally masculine but are also shortened forms of feminine names: Sam (short for Samantha), Max (short for Maxine), Jo (short for Josephine or Josie). I have also met men named Kelley and Shannon, which are traditionally feminine, Irish names.


Here are some more English names that seem to work both as masculine and as feminine (at least phonetically): Jerry/Geri, Charlie/Charley, Jamie/Jamie.



			
				pajarita said:
			
		

> My first time in Spain, I admit that I found it a bit strange that some men had what I thought were feminine middle names, but then again, many of my relatives here have middle names that are not traditionally given to that gender but they are names that have been in the family for a long time.


Do you mean feminine _given_ middle names? (Such as _José *María* Aznar_, for example...)


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## Outsider

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Of course, we also have the truly bizarre minority of people (mostly "artistic folk") who choose to name their children things like:
> 
> Pilot Inspector
> Moon Unit
> Dweezil
> Jett Blue
> and of course, Apple.    (I'll admit, I kind of like Apple).


Or "Winona Ryder" (which actually sounds nice)...


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## Outsider

LanceKitty said:
			
		

> There are names with their male and female counterpart as mentioned previously (Francis/Frances, John/Joan, etc)... and yet there are also names that, to _me_, were forced to have a counterpart by simply adding a letter and shifting the accent or stress on the name.
> 
> Examples:
> Justin (M) = Jus_tine_ (F)
> Martin (M) = Mar_tine_ (F)
> 
> The things we do for uniqueness, eh?


No, that's just how the French language works. There are thousands of examples...


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## Phryne

Outsider said:
			
		

> Or "Winona Ryder" (which actually sounds nice)...


 But, Winona _is_ a Siouan (Native American) name!! 

"The Siouan name Winona (First-Born Daughter) is found in twenty-eight states. Some of these place names commemorate the fictional mother of Hiawatha in Longfellow's Song of Hiawatha, while others are derived from the name of a cousin of the last Siouan chief, Wabasha; this Winona had a village on the site of present-day Winona, Minnesota. (Another legendary woman of this name was said to have thrown herself from a cliff on the Mississippi, now called Maidenrock, rather than marry a suitor favored by her parents.)"

source

saludos


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## Like an Angel

Thanks for the data Majosecita, intresting!!!

What about _Sigourney_ and _Oprah_?? I still remember Billy Cristal playing jokes about those names in one of the Oscar's Academy Awards Nights


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## Phryne

Like an Angel said:
			
		

> Thanks for the data Majosecita, intresting!!!
> 
> What about _Sigourney_ and _Oprah_?? I still remember Billy Cristal playing jokes about those names in one of the Oscar's Academy Awards Nights


 Esto tuve que buscarlo! Me estás haciendo trabajar?! 

*Oprah*: Hebrew name meaning fawn (from babychatter.com)

*Sigourney*: "0n 1963, Susan [refering to the actress Sigourney Weaver] changed her name to 'Sigourney', after a character called 'Sigourney Howard', in Fitzgerald's 'The Great Gatsby'." (from www.imdb.com)
*Sigourney *means "conqueror" in Old Norse (from cool-baby-names.com).

Oh my, you can find anything you need to know in San Internet!

besinhos, chau chau!


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## Like an Angel

Alabado seas San Internet y Santa Majo...  thank you so very much Majo, it's very intresting!!!!


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## Roi Marphille

and have you seen this TV-serie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207889/ "Jack & Jill" in the begining I thought that Jack was the guy and Jill the girl! and it's onwards!


----------



## Phryne

Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> and have you seen this TV-serie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207889/ "Jack & Jill" in the begining I thought that Jack was the guy and Jill the girl! and it's onwards!


 

This was done on purpose, as joke I guess. The character's name is Jackeline so in the series her nickname is Jack which is not the norm. Usually it is Jackie. And Jill, which is never a man's name, in the series it's short for Jillefsky, the guy's last name. 

saludos


----------



## gotitadeleche

Phryne said:
			
		

> But, Winona _is_ a Siouan (Native American) name!!
> 
> "The Siouan name Winona (First-Born Daughter) is found in twenty-eight states. Some of these place names commemorate the fictional mother of Hiawatha in Longfellow's Song of Hiawatha, while others are derived from the name of a cousin of the last Siouan chief, Wabasha; this Winona had a village on the site of present-day Winona, Minnesota. (Another legendary woman of this name was said to have thrown herself from a cliff on the Mississippi, now called Maidenrock, rather than marry a suitor favored by her parents.)"
> 
> source
> 
> saludos



Oh that's interesting Phryne, I have an aunt named Winona, but I had no idea about the history of the name.


----------



## Roi Marphille

Well, 

thanks guys for all contributions to this thread! some of them are really remarkable. 
A new one, you know actor Nicolas Cage...has named his new son Kal-el just like Superman!!! wow  
Source here. 

cheers, 

Roi


----------



## Brioche

In Australia the less education and the less status parents have, the more likely they are to give their children strange names, or to spell a common name in a strange way.


----------



## estefanos

There are also names that are generally feminine, but have long established usage as masculine names.  Vivian, Beverly, and Lindsey come to mind.

I used to have the same problem at a company that did business internationally, almost entirely via email.  I would often encounter a Pakistani, Indian, or Korean name that I'd never heard before.  I'd google the name, but click on "Image" rather than "Web", and generally find the answer right away.


----------



## Roi Marphille

estefanos said:
			
		

> I used to have the same problem at a company that did business internationally, almost entirely via email. I would often encounter a Pakistani, Indian, or Korean name that I'd never heard before. I'd google the name, but click on "Image" rather than "Web", and generally find the answer right away.


hey estefanos, good trick! thanks!

cheers, 
Roi


----------



## estefanos

Glad to have been of service, Roi.  This site is fantastic!

ciao,
estéfanos


----------



## steel&water

I generally have the same problem cuz of my name.I'm from Turkey and in here my name is a reall female name.but for the foregineers they thought that is a male name. and till ı met with our customers they tought that i'm  male.


----------



## belén

Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> I like Apple too!
> In fact, I have an Apple computer.
> btw, Apple in my language is beautiful too, it's "poma".



Roi, watch out with "poma" if out in Mallorca, for it is an insult (mild, but still insult) so don't name your baby "poma" if you have plans to travel to the island  
That's what we call girls who are too soft and girly and "tontitas"


----------



## Roi Marphille

belen said:
			
		

> Roi, watch out with "poma" if out in Mallorca, for it is an insult (mild, but still insult) so don't name your baby "poma" if you have plans to travel to the island
> That's what we call girls who are too soft and girly and "tontitas"


wow!  I didn't know it. I'll keep in mind but it is quite unlikely that I'll have a baby soon  
Anyway, in Catalonia we have "bleda" for them.(Castilian: acelga, English:chard). Still in Botanic-World but another category..


----------



## estefanos

mari.kit said:
			
		

> you know, i also have a friend whose name is _jennifer_, but he's a male.



And I know an attractively female person named "James"...   A family history type of name.

e.


----------



## Roi Marphille

estefanos said:
			
		

> And I know an attractively female person named "James"... A family history type of name.
> 
> e.


well, I'm sorry to say so, but from my point of view, that fact rests some attractiveness from her..


----------



## Hakro

As you all can see the problem of male or female names concerns mostly the anglo-saxon world. Elsewhere it's quite clear within a given language; between different languages there may appear difficulties. My colleague journalist Kari (a very common male name in Finland) was invited to Norway where Kari is absolutely a female name. The journalists were lodged in hotel roooms for 2 persons ... you can guess the rest.


----------



## Roi Marphille

Hakro said:
			
		

> The journalists were lodged in hotel roooms for 2 persons ... you can guess the rest.


I bet it was the beggining of a nice friendship..


----------



## Isotta

Naming is a different game in the American South. 

For boys, two common scenarios:
1. Male "Christian" first name, plus the mother's maiden name as the second/middle name, then father's last name. Boy called sometimes by Christian name, more often called by his family middle name.

2. First name family name, second/middle name family name (one of these is almost invariably the mother's maiden name), then father's last name. Boy called by one of first two names. 

My brother is in the second category. His first name was my great-great-great-grandmother's maiden name. Second name is my mother's maiden name. Third name is my father's family name. This means that among his three names, not a single one is a traditional boy's name. My father is in the first: his middle name is his mother's maiden name, and he is called by a "Christian" first name.

Girls, three common scenarios:
1. Female "Christian" first name, plus the mother's maiden name as the second/middle name, then father's last name. Girl might be called by the middle name, or she might be called by her "Christian name." I am the latter. This means that my brother and I share the same middle and last names. 

2. Female "Christian" first name, female "Christian" second/middle name. You might be called by both first names together, "Margaret Ann." Or just one.

3. Hyphenated or combined first name, consisting of generic female "Christian" name, such as "Mary" or "Emily" plus a family name: "Mary Austin" or "Mary Worth" or "Anne-Taylor." Plus a family middle name, from anywhere. Then father's last name.

In the South, your mother's family is considered more important. Whenever I told my parents I had met someone new and said their name, they always asked immediately, "Who's his mother?" My grandfather used to ask, "Who are his people?" Your middle name is thus more important, and most people go by all three names. You introduce yourself with all three names. And almost no one has only two names.

One advantage to this nomenclature system is tracing your family becomes easier. This is important, since people are more sessile in the South, are less mobile. It's important to take a look, else you could well end up unwittingly marrying your cousin. I've known it to happen.

Hope that's clear--

Z.


----------



## Edwin

Isotta said:
			
		

> Naming is a different game in the American South.



Be careful about generalizing.  As a native of the American South with ancestors who fought in the War Between the States, I can say that the custom you describe is not universally used..  And I have plenty of samples: both my mother and father had 10 (ten) siblings each!  Sometimes, yes. But not exclusively.  And as for introducing oneself with all three names...  Lawdie, Miss Scarlet, what plantation do you live on? 

PS. My father had only two names.


----------



## Isotta

Hmm, I am tempted to revise it to my corner of the south--where plantation homes are considerably smaller--but most everyone I know from Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas and many other parts of the South do the same. Are you speaking for Florida? Or from your knowledge of the rest of the South? 

Yes, at least in that corner of the South at least people will certainly know of at least one of your families, so you introduce yourself with all three names. People are nosey and want to know who you are. Sometimes you find you're distantly related to that person. People there still call families "clans," as in the "Bradley clan." And your middle name becomes as important as your last name. Or let's say you're at a party and you know that the host knows your mother's family, let's say the "Bradleys" and not your father's, so you can also say, "Hello, I'm (first name). I'm a Bradley." 

You're right in that it's not everyone, but to me these appear almost as anomalies. Really crazy things can happen with naming. When my mother was young she taught a boy whose name was "Junior Kennedy." One day, she asked his mother what "Junior" stood for--and the woman said, "Why, we naymed 'im after his daddy." Apparently on his birth certificate it said "Junior Kennedy." And then once I met a boy who had a good novel name lile "Clifton Everett Stone," and they called him "Bubba." You learn not to make jokes about names at a very early age.

Z.


----------



## Hakro

Dear friends,

 I repeat: the problem of  male and female names concerns mostly the anglo-saxon world. It's not a "continental" problem. 

 Countries and languages outside Europe I don't know much about. Please tell us!

 I have also found (in TV, films etc.) that a persons name is unbelievably important in US, where, on the other hand, it's very very easy to change your name. Isn't it funny? 

 As far as I know, changing your name in any European country is much more complicated than in US.

 Let me know if I'm wrong!

 In anglo-saxon world you have a first name that generally should be male or female according to your sex; the middle name (as far as I know) can be anything; and the last name is your fathers name.

 Am I right?

 In most European countries we have one or more (up to a dozen or so) christian names and then the family name; we don't have a "middle " name.

 "My middle name is Misery!" Do you rememember?

 What's the point of all this? When young American girls & boys come to Europe they should understand that it's not only a question of a foreign language but also a different culture - different in many ways. Different names are one of the differencies.

 You sure know the story about Bill Shit. He went to the office (I forget what it's in English) where you can have your name changed, and the funtionary said:
 "OK, having a name like that you can change it without problems. What would you like your name to be?"
 "I'd like to be Jim Shit!"


----------



## Isotta

Hakro said:
			
		

> Countries and languages outside Europe I don't know much about. Please tell us! I repeat: the problem of male and female names concerns mostly the anglo-saxon world. It's not a "continental" problem.


Well in French there is Dominique (boy's name) and Dominique (girl's name). There is also Michel (boy's name) and Michelle (girl's name). I think Laurence can also go both ways. There is also Emmanuel and Emmanuelle. And Gabriel and Gabrielle. Just to name a few. 


			
				Hakro said:
			
		

> I have also found (in TV, films etc.) that a persons name is unbelievably important in US, where, on the other hand, it's very very easy to change your name. Isn't it funny?


I wouldn't say it's that easy. I only know one person who ever did it, and it was to change her middle name (that she disliked her whole life) to a middle initial. I do think the possibility of changing one's name in America has to do with the self-made man idea, some sort of Pico echo that man can reinvent himself.


			
				Hakro said:
			
		

> In the Anglo-Saxon world you have a first name that generally should be male or female according to your sex; the middle name (as far as I know) can be anything; and the last name is your father's name.
> Am I right?


It varies.


			
				Hakro said:
			
		

> In most European countries we have one or more (up to a dozen or so) Christian names and then a family name; we don't have a "middle" name.


It's a question of semantics--I would call the up to eleven Christian names "middle names."


			
				Hakro said:
			
		

> What's the point of all this? When young American girls & boys come to Europe they should understand that it's not only a question of a foreign language but also a different culture - different in many ways. Different names are one of the differences.


I think American girls and boys are getting on well with European names, especially as we have English equivalents of most of them. 

I'm afraid I cannot address the rest of your post.

Z.


----------



## Edwin

Isotta said:
			
		

> Hmm, I am tempted to revise it to my corner of the south--where plantation homes are considerably smaller--but most everyone I know from Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas and many other parts of the South do the same. Are you speaking for Florida? Or from your knowledge of the rest of the South?



Much of Florida (as you probably know) is not particularly Southern in outlook. And anyhow I'm not speaking for Florida. My father was born and raised in Thomasville, Georgia. My mother was born and raised in Tifton, Georgia. My paternal grandparents were from Alabama originally. We moved around in Georgia, South Carolina, Florida and Texas while I was growing up. I spent four years in New Orleans, but that hardly counts since I did little but study during that time.


----------



## panjabigator

A couple comments:  Someone mentioned the name Chippy...thats my dogs name

My family comes from Northwest India, and we are sikh.  In the sikh religion, the first letter of your name is determined by the Holy Book, and then with that letter you make the name.  Here is the catch...sikh names are unisex!

Can you imagine the drama with my parents?  My mother has a brother with the same name, and I have met plenty of women with my fathers name.  Most people have a pet name that they go by so it works fine...but we're not in India anymore soooo....those nicknamaes (ie...bubbly, poppy, pinky, papu, veero...punjabi's have funny nick names hehe) will not fly!

Here is the wikipedia article on it:  Sikh Names


----------



## danielfranco

Over here in the States sometimes names are a fad, and what is fashionable for a couple of years isn't next year. A fad about naming babies was that some male names were used for girls and viceversa. For example: Chase, Tracey, Boothe, Elliot, and others.
If such fads exist in other countries and you are not very familiar with their culture, then I guess it might be next to impossible to know if a person is male or female just by their first name.
Good luck with that!


----------



## Neever

I was reading a baby names website the other day and looked up the Irish names, just to see what they said.  I think it was a website geared towards American people.  They gave the name, a meaning, a pronounciation and then whether it was male or female....well, I know people are entitled to call their kids what they want, but the information in the website was SO misleading.  It had all these Irish names that are definitely gender-specific in Ireland down as unisex.  So all those men called Siobhán that come to Ireland to visit can expect a few funny looks!


----------



## deidre79

panjabigator said:
			
		

> A couple comments: Someone mentioned the name Chippy...thats my dogs name


"Chippy" wouldn't be a good name for a male or a female in the UK because it's the word we use for "chip shop", the place where you buy your fish and chips. 



			
				Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> Which are the most confusing names?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Roi


I think "Roi" is quite confusing... are you a male or a female?


----------



## Outsider

Roi (Rui) is obviously male.


----------



## deidre79

Not obvious for me. 
I've never seen that name before in my life ... I guess that most English-speakers haven't.
It's interesting how some names seem naturally masculine or feminine to us, though, whereas others seem ambiguous.


----------



## Outsider

Here is someone called Rui.  
I think the Catalan name Roi is related to Portuguese Rui. I don't know if there is a similar name in Spanish.


----------



## Laia

Outsider said:
			
		

> Here is someone called Rui.
> I think the Catalan name Roi is related to Portuguese Rui. I don't know if there is a similar name in Spanish.


 
 As far as I know, "Roi" doesn't exist as a name in Catalan (am I wrong?  ). 
It's just a pseudonym.


----------



## mithrellas

Outsider said:
			
		

> Here is someone called Rui.
> I think the Catalan name Roi is related to Portuguese Rui. I don't know if there is a similar name in Spanish.


 


			
				Laia said:
			
		

> As far as I know, "Roi" doesn't exist as a name in Catalan (am I wrong?  ).
> It's just a pseudonym.


 
Laia is right, as far as I know Roi does not exist in catalan.

But yes Outsider, we do have a similar of Rui in Spanish. It is "Ruy" (diminutive? of the name Rodrigo).


----------



## deslenguada

Hola! I wonder wether this happens in all the languages, sometimes and exceptionally a few names that were male in the past become female in the present or in countries that the same language is spoken a person's name can be female in one and male in the other, or even if it is not but it's the exact (written) name.

Some exaples I can rember are:

Rosario, it was a male name in Spain but nowadays it isn't but it is still a male name in Dominican Republic and other Caribbean countries (I guess)

Andrea is male name in Italy but it's a female name in Spain.

Ashley, it can be both.

What do you think about it? My personal opinion is that it happens just because trends.

Thanks in advance and please tell your examples


----------



## sabrinita85

deslenguada said:


> Rosario, it was a male name in Spain but nowadays it isn't but it is still a male name in Dominican Republic and other Caribbean countries (I guess)



_Rosario _is a male name also in Italian


----------



## Suane

It reminds me how I first discovered that some girls in USA were called Alex (on the tv show), the name traditionally (in Slovakia) used for boys. 

Like Alexander(male) = Alex, Sasha (less used)
Alexandra(female)= Sasha... (also Alex in some countries?)


----------



## GenJen54

*Mod Note:* Please remember that the Cultural Discussions Forum is simply for that, *discussions.*  It is not for making lists.  Please do what you can to *not* simply list names as examples. 

Thank you.


----------



## Victoria32

Hakro said:


> As you all can see the problem of male or female names concerns mostly the anglo-saxon world. Elsewhere it's quite clear within a given language; between different languages there may appear difficulties. My colleague journalist Kari (a very common male name in Finland) was invited to Norway where Kari is absolutely a female name. The journalists were lodged in hotel roooms for 2 persons ... you can guess the rest.


That's funny! 


Hakro said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I repeat: the problem of  male and female names concerns mostly the anglo-saxon world. It's not a "continental" problem.
> 
> Countries and languages outside Europe I don't know much about. Please tell us!
> 
> I have also found (in TV, films etc.) that a persons name is unbelievably important in US, where, on the other hand, it's very very easy to change your name. Isn't it funny?
> 
> As far as I know, changing your name in any European country is much more complicated than in US.
> 
> Let me know if I'm wrong!
> 
> In anglo-saxon world you have a first name that generally should be male or female according to your sex; the middle name (as far as I know) can be anything; and the last name is your fathers name.
> 
> Am I right?
> 
> In most European countries we have one or more (up to a dozen or so) christian names and then the family name; we don't have a "middle " name.
> 
> "My middle name is Misery!" Do you rememember?
> 
> What's the point of all this? When young American girls & boys come to Europe they should understand that it's not only a question of a foreign language but also a different culture - different in many ways. Different names are one of the differencies.
> 
> You sure know the story about Bill Shit. He went to the office (I forget what it's in English) where you can have your name changed, and the funtionary said:
> "OK, having a name like that you can change it without problems. What would you like your name to be?"
> "I'd like to be Jim Shit!"


My father used to tell that joke.. There's another, about a man who goes to change his name from John Brown to Bill Smith, and he has a strong accent so the judge asks why he wants to change. He says "My name was Goldstein, and I want to be Bill Smith so when people ask what my name was before it was Bill Smith, I can say John Brown... "
I gave my son _five _Christian names, so he could choose the one he liked.


----------



## .   1

Victoria32 said:


> another, about a man who goes to change his name from John Brown to Bill Smith, and he has a strong accent so the judge asks why he wants to change. He says "My name was Goldstein, and I want to be Bill Smith so when people ask what my name was before it was Bill Smith, I can say John Brown... "


That is the best joke I have read in this forum.  It is better for me that I had to read it three times before I got it.
It is posts like this that force me to keep returning to this wonderful spot.

How do I keep on thread.
I don't know.
A big difficulty for me is the feminisation of male names.
Paul becomes Paula or Pauline but Pauly is a boy
Robin becomes Robyn but they sound the same
Robert becomes Roberta but Roberto remains male.

Thanks Victoria,

.,,


----------



## Victoria32

. said:


> That is the best joke I have read in this forum.  It is better for me that I had to read it three times before I got it.
> It is posts like this that force me to keep returning to this wonderful spot.
> 
> How do I keep on thread.
> I don't know.
> A big difficulty for me is the feminisation of male names.
> Paul becomes Paula or Pauline but Pauly is a boy
> Robin becomes Robyn but they sound the same
> Robert becomes Roberta but Roberto remains male.
> 
> Thanks Victoria,
> 
> .,,


Glad you liked it! 
Names are one of my real interests, and I too had noted a tendency for women to have male names in the USA, especially on TV, a good example being a child actress called Daveigh Chase (she's brilliant!) 
When I was at Intermediate school (10-12) a boy came from Britain, and he was called Robin. Here it's almost exclusively a grils name and he had a very hard time of it!


----------



## .   1

Victoria32 said:


> Glad you liked it!
> Names are one of my real interests, and I too had noted a tendency for women to have male names in the USA, especially on TV, a good example being a child actress called Daveigh Chase (she's brilliant!)
> When I was at Intermediate school (10-12) a boy came from Britain, and he was called Robin. Here it's almost exclusively a grils name and he had a very hard time of it!


Carol seems to be a popular bloke's name in the U.S.
I'll bet your friend Robin was grilled by his maets .

.,,


----------



## Brioche

Victoria32 said:


> When I was at Intermediate school (10-12) a boy came from Britain, and he was called Robin. Here it's almost exclusively a grils name and he had a very hard time of it!


 
There was a Premier of New South Wales whose name was Robin Askin. He didn't like the name, and changed it to Robert.

Florence was a man's name, until Florence Nightingale came along. She was born in Florence, hence her name.

Shirley was a pefectly respectable man's name until Shirley Temple became famous.

I'd say it's generally a one-way street. I don't know of any names that were once exclusively female that have become commonly used men's names.


----------



## Outsider

deslenguada said:


> Andrea is male name in Italy but it's a female name in Spain.


Italian Andrea corresponds to Spanish Andrés, not to Sp. Andrea.


----------



## Cnaeius

Outsider said:


> Italian Andrea corresponds to Spanish Andrés, not to Sp. Andrea.


 
It is strange that a name as Andrea is used for females. Its ethimology is strictly masculine...
But actually I don't think that trends and fashion mind the ethimology..


----------



## Outsider

The origin of Andrea is Greek Andreas, I believe. It's not difficult to see how this could have evolved to Andrea, on one side, and to André(s), on the other.
Later, I suppose someone thought that Andrea was a good name for a girl, since it ended with "a", in the languages where it wasn't already a man's name.


----------



## Cnaeius

Outsider said:


> The origin of Andrea is Greek Andreas, I believe. It's not difficult to see how this could have evolved to Andrea, on one side, and to André(s), on the other.
> Later, I suppose someone thought that Andrea was a good name for a girl, since it ended with "a", in the languages where it wasn't already a man's name.


 
Yes, very probably.
I said it was a bit strange only because the meaning of Andrea is "virile", "man" and things like that. So it does not fit very well to a woman.


----------



## Victoria32

. said:


> Carol seems to be a popular bloke's name in the U.S.
> I'll bet your friend Robin was grilled by his maets .
> 
> .,,


Oh he suffered! He was English (as I am) and that's a crime in NZ schools, he was studious and soft-spoken... I am sure you can guess..

I have a woman friend called Andrea, an Anthroposohist, and she used the name Anni, and told me once she's no better off with that, as in Hindi it means something like what it does in Greek, virile, manly. She's very graceful and womanly, though I have never seen her ever wear a dress!


----------



## Outsider

Does anyone remember a song by Elton John titled _Nikita_? Nice song, and nice video, but it always left me thinking that Elton didn't know that Nikita is a man's name in Russian. 

Well, since this was Elton John, perhaps the mistake was no mistake. But then years later the same confusion popped up in the film and TV show _La Femme Nikita_. Is it common to name women "Nikita" in English?


----------



## panjabigator

Nikita is also a girls name in India.  I don't think it's an all common American name...but you will meet Nickys, Nikis, and other similarly derivations.


----------



## stanley

Outsider said:


> Does anyone remember a song by Elton John titled _Nikita_? Nice song, and nice video, but it always left me thinking that Elton didn't know that Nikita is a man's name in Russian.
> 
> Well, since this was Elton John, perhaps the mistake was no mistake. But then years later the same confusion popped up in the film and TV show _La Femme Nikita_. Is it common to name women "Nikita" in English?


It's a mans name in Russia? Seriously? Because there are a lot of movies with Russian people, for instance, James Bond and there's a woman who's called Nikita..


----------



## Outsider

Absolutely. Ever heard of Nikita Khrushchev?


----------



## Athaulf

In various Slavic languages, _-ita_, _-ica_, and other similar sounding suffixes are used to form diminutive hypocoristic forms of certain male names. In Russian, _Nikita_ is a diminutive form of _Nikolai_ (_Nicholas_); in Croatian, we similarly have _Nikica_ as a diminutive form of _Nikola_. Such diminutives are masculine, but they decline like feminine nouns, including the highly feminine-sounding nominative form.


----------



## Etcetera

Roi Marphille said:


> don't you find sometimes difficult to learn if a person is male or female by his/her written name?oi


Hola Roi 

It happens quite frequently. When I see a written Korean, Chinese or Japanese name, I can never tell if it's a male or a female name. But the same thing often happens with Russian names, when there's only the first letter of the name and some surname ending in -ko, - vich or something like that.


----------



## Athaulf

Etcetera said:


> Hola Roi
> 
> It happens quite frequently. When I see a written Korean, Chinese or Japanese name, I can never tell if it's a male or a female name.



Most Turkish names are also a random guess if you don't speak the language.  



> But the same thing often happens with Russian names, when there's only the first letter of the name and some surname ending in -ko, - vich or something like that.


Unlike the (entire?) rest of the Slavic world, in Croatia and other countries of former Yugoslavia, we don't have separate male and female forms of family names. Thus if you see a Croatian last name ending in _-ski_, _-ov_, _-in_, etc., it can easily be a woman.


----------



## panjabigator

And not to go off too far from topic, but Sikh names are neuter.  Males and females can have the same name!  The way you can tell them apart is by their last name!  Different, I agree!


----------



## Tjahzi

From what I've gathered from this thread, Swedish names are more gender distinctive than the average. Female versions of male names are common and created by adding the "-a" suffix (or one could say male names are created by removing the "-a"....). In fact, all (native) female names end with a vowel (9 out of 10 times "a") or "n". Male names end in consonants, some which are more common than other (s, k, n, r to name the first that come to my mind). 

In addition to that, there are a few, quite recently imported names that are gender neutral, such as "Kim" and "Robin".

Surnames are gender neutral.


----------



## Angelo di fuoco

Athaulf said:


> Most Turkish names are also a random guess if you don't speak the language.
> 
> Unlike the (entire?) rest of the Slavic world, in Croatia and other countries of former Yugoslavia, we don't have separate male and female forms of family names. Thus if you see a Croatian last name ending in _-ski_, _-ov_, _-in_, etc., it can easily be a woman.



You should get rid of that bad habit and restore the original Slavic distinction. I like Czech because in Czech women *always* (not *mostly*, as in other West and East Slavic languages - and I'm not sure about Bulgarian) have their own form of the last name.
In Lithuanian and, I think, Latvian, you can even distinguish if a woman is married or not, though today the last name does not always reflect the actual state of things. especially if the woman in question is a famous person like an artist or politician.


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## Awwal12

Athaulf said:


> In Russian, _Nikita_ is a diminutive form of _Nikolai_ (_Nicholas_)


I'm afraid that at least Wikipedia refers that name as having a separate Greek origin (Νικήτας — a victor, a winner).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_(name)
P.S.: In Russia, the basic *informal* variant of Николай (Nikol*a*y) is Коля (K*o*lya); various emotional suffixes can be attached to it (Коленька, Колик etc.).


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## AutumnOwl

Awwal12 said:


> I'm afraid that at least Wikipedia refers that name as having a separate Greek origin (Νικήτας — a victor, a winner).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_(name)
> P.S.: In Russia, the basic *informal* variant of Николай (Nikol*a*y) is Коля (K*o*lya); various emotional suffixes can be attached to it (Коленька, Колик etc.).


According to the site "Think Baby Names" Nikita can either be a form of Nicholas, both with the meaning "a victor, a winner" or come from the name Aniketos meaning "unconquered", the site gives Nicholas as the source of the male Nikita, and Aniketos as the source for the female Nikita.


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## AutumnOwl

In the 13th and 14th century France the name Anne was used as a male name, an example was Anne de Montmorency, a constable of France and today Anne is entirely a female name. 

In Italy Andrea is a masculine name, in Sweden it's considered as a female name, as it ends with an "a". 
The name Kim can be used both as a male (short for Joakim) and female (imported from the English Kimberly probably) in Sweden.
In some parts of Sweden there was/is a tradition of having the name of the farm as part of the Christian name, so those names are used both for males and females, one such name is Liss.


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## Awwal12

AutumnOwl said:


> According to the site "Think Baby Names" Nikita can either be a form of Nicholas, both with the meaning "a victor, a winner" or come from the name Aniketos meaning "unconquered", the site gives Nicholas as the source of the male Nikita, and Aniketos as the source for the female Nikita.


Excuse me for referring to Wiki again (maybe it should be considered as a bad habit ), but Nicholas (Rus. Николай, "Nikol*a*y") is derived from Greek "Νικόλαος" with approximate meaning "victorious people".
Also the fact I wanted to point out is that at least in Russia, without any doubts, the name "Nikita" (which is only male, as it was mentione above) isn't a variant of the name "Nikolay" in any way.


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## Lugubert

Ambiguous Kim has been mentioned for Swedish. For international problems, there's the case of Scandinavian Jan, who always is masculine.


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