# problem



## ThomasK

In this 'problematic' era I wonder whether you have the word 'problem' in your language and what alternatives there are and were (and will be ;-)).

Dutch: *probleem*. 
- Before: _*kwestie*_, _*moeilijkheid *_(difficulty), I suppose 
- Alternatives: _*pijnpunt *_(pain point, where it hurts), *knelpunt *(pinching point)

_(See also here)_


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## snoopymanatee

Hello ThomasK,

In Turkish, we use the word "_*problem*_", too.

- Before and now: _*mesele*_. (problem, matter)

"*Mesele*" is an Arabic loan and has been used in Turkish.

- Alternative: _*sorun*_. (difficulty, hassle)


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

«Πρόβλημα» ('provlima, _n._); Classical neuter noun «πρόβλημα» ('prŏblēmă)--> lit. _anything thrown forward_ or _projecting_, metaph. _anything put before one as a defence, bulwark, barrier_. Compound; preposition and prefix «πρὸ» (prŏ)--> _before, in front of, forth_ (PIE base *por-, _forward, through_) + neuter noun «βλῆμα» ('blēmă, 'vlima in modern pronunciation)--> _missile, projectile, shot_ (PIE base *gʷel- (2), _to throw_, cf. Lat. _ballista_, Ger. _quellen_).
The troubled times we're going through are «προβληματικοί καιροί» (provlimati'ci ce'ri, _pl. nominative masculine_) lit. "problematic times".
Alternative: 
A/ «Δυσκολίες» (ðisko'lies, _pl. nominative fem._), lit. _difficulties_. Classical feminine noun «δυσκολία» (dŭskŏ'līă)--> _discontent, peevishness, difficulty_. Compound; adv. and prefix «δυς»  (dus)--> _bad, ill, abnormal_ (PIE base *dus-, _bad, ill, evil_) + Classical masculine noun «κόλος» ('kŏlŏs) or neuter noun «κόλον» ('kŏlŏn)--> _feeding, nourishment_ with obscure etymology (the noun «δυσκολία» (dŭskŏ'līă) initially described the difficult way of getting food).
B/ «Σκοτούρες» (sko'tures, _pl. nominative fem._), with lit. meaning _dizziness, vertigo, blackout_, metaphorically, _dark days, difficulties, troubles_. Byzantine compound; neuter noun, «σκότος» ('skotos)--> _darkness, gloom_ (PIE base *skot-, _shadow, darkness_) + Byzantine feminine productive suffix «-ουρα» (-ura)


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## ThomasK

Great, both of you, thanks. As for Turkish: could you comment a little more on the precise meaning of _mesele?_ What is the link between problem and matter? Something like issue, question? Could you find a reference in other languages?

Greek : I thought a 'kairos' was a good opportunity. But it isn't apparently. Can you use Σκοτούρες with a determiner? Is it concrete: *a vertigo ? And Δυσκολίες: could it be something like scarcity (of food) ?


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## snoopymanatee

ThomasK said:


> Great, both of you, thanks. As for Turkish: could you comment a little more on the precise meaning of _mesele?_ What is the link between problem and matter? Something like issue, question? Could you find a reference in other languages?



Precise meaning of "_mesele_" is "_problem/matter/issue_". (I use "issue" here in informal meaning: _A personal problem or emotional disorder.) _

_Mesele_ nedir? --> What's _the problem/matter_?


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## ThomasK

Could you use _mesele _in a different meaning? Or what is the root of the word ? (Thanks !)


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## snoopymanatee

ThomasK said:


> Could you use _mesele _in a different meaning? Or what is the root of the word ? (Thanks !)



Oh, sorry I did not understand in that way when I wrote my previous message.

I am not sure about its root, because it is an Arabic loan in Turkish and I do not speak Arabic.

"_Mesele_" is being used in 2 meanings in Turkish:

1. *sorun* --> *problem*.

2. *güç iş* --> *something which is difficult to do*.


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## terredepomme

Japanese/Korean/Chinese -> 問題(mondai/munje/wenti).
Literally "ask-topic," it is a calque from the European word "problem." 
Before that we didn't have an equivalent for the word.
If there was a problem I guess we would have said "there are troubles, difficulties, unrest, etc"


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## sakvaka

In *Finnish*, the word is _ongelma._ The origin is a bit unclear, but at the first sight it appears to be connected to the word _onki_ (gen. _ongen_; "fishing rod") and the verb _onkia_ ("angle"). -mA indicates the result of an action, and in consequence, _ongelma_ is something that you angled. The starting point is surprisingly positive!

Another theory is that _ongelma_ is a formation of _ongelmo_† ("hole between two branches" or something like that). Not totally impossible, either: problems can be considered 'dark and deep places full of mystery'.

In fact, here's an interesting webpage concerning the word _ongelma_ from a cultural-etymological standpoint.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Greek : I thought a 'kairos' was a good opportunity. But it isn't apparently. Can you use Σκοτούρες with a determiner? Is it concrete: *a vertigo ? And Δυσκολίες: could it be something like scarcity (of food) ?


Hi TK,
Well «καιρός» carries a broader meaning, it's the opportune time to do something; whether this «καιρός» is to be used for good or bad, it is irrelevant, the concept is neutral.
As for «σκοτούρες» no it's used without a determiner. Its literal meaning is "vertigo" but nowadays, when one hears someone talking about «σκοτούρες» in his/her life, 99 out of 100 times, s/he talks about difficulties.
Concerning «δυσκολίες», yes, that was its ancient-ancient meaning, pre-classical perhaps. Food was scarce and people had to work hard in order to put it on the table. Since Classical times its definition has become very broad and nowadays with «δυσκολία» we describe "difficulty" (and only that).


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## hui

sakvaka said:


> In *Finnish*, the word is _ongelma_



Another word is _pulma._ Its origin seems to be as unclear - even problematic - as the origin of _ongelma._

_P__robleema_ can also be used.

[In Estonian, _pulmad_ means wedding, I think.]


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## ancalimon

hui said:


> Another word is _pulma._ Its origin seems to be as unclear - even problematic - as the origin of _ongelma._
> 
> _P__robleema_ can also be used.
> 
> [In Estonian, _pulmad_ means wedding, I think.]



In Turkish "bulma" means "the act of finding", "the act of solving".  For example we call "a puzzle" as "bulmaca"


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## mataripis

In Tagalog it is " Suliranin ".    1.) Ang nagpapasidhi sa suliranin ay ang kawalan ng mabuting pag iisip at kapasyahan. ( The factor that worsen the problem is the lack of rational thinking and right decision.)


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## ThomasK

Turkish: problems are things that have not yet been solved, isn't it? 

Tagalog: what is the origin of _suliranin _?


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## ancalimon

ThomasK said:


> Turkish: problems are things that have not yet been solved, isn't it?



Yes. Problems are things that are not yet been solved.


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Turkish: problems are things that have not yet been solved, isn't it?
> 
> Tagalog: what is the origin of _suliranin _?


 I am not sure but "suli"(from "Sauli"(sawli) the first part of word means  " Came back"/"return "   and for me it means whatever error is done something will come back (the problem)!


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## Encolpius

*magyar *> gond, baj, probléma


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## ThomasK

Would you be able to comment on the precise meaning of 'gond', 'baj'?


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## ahmedcowon

*In Arabic:*

*مشكلة* /mushkila/ (problem in general)

*معضلة */muʕḍˤila/ (big problem, puzzle)

*مسألة */masʔala/ (matter, math problem)

*إشكال */ishkāl/ (small problem)


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## Encolpius

gond > concern, care, worry, trouble, attention, difficulty
baj > trouble, misery, misfortune, grief, bother, complaint


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## ThomasK

That is quite interesting. I think 'problem' in English does not have that ring. Those are the older words, more emotional, less 'distanced', and I like them better...


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## Encolpius

I've check the etymology, rather surprising

baj < first appears as early as 1300s from BSC boj [fight, fighting, combat] 
gond < ancient word, unknown etymology


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## ThomasK

Seven or nine years later I have seen the number of problems growing... However, indirectly: the number of enterprises offering [the craziest kinds of] solutions in their names is mind-boggling, but *the solution concept implies the existence of problems*, I'd say. But in that way we o not talk about problems that much perhaps, whereas they're present in the background... 

Of course *catering solutions* sounds crazy to me, but OK, if you feel like it, you can "reduce" offering food to offering a service as a response to some kind of problem, if you feel like calling feeding people a problem.  One even calls itself "*Solucious" *!!!??? I think the main idea is that *the term "solutions" makes a service more expensive: you can ask more for offering service than for feeding people*, although the difference is only in the name... _(Similarly giving a hint when someone has a problem is for free, if it is "service", you might start  at $50 an hour, but if it is called "consult", then... )_


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