# Norwegian: Hvor utgangspunktet er galest, blir tidt resultatet originalest



## Tabac

Can anyone help me here? I saw the paper clip art at the Oslo airport the other day. I know the history behind it, but I don't knowthe English meaning.

«_Hvor utgangspunktet er galest, blir tidt resultatet originalest._» — Ibsen (Peer Gynt)

Thanks.


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## Larsipan

This is a really old quote, written in old Norwegian and is hard to translate, I'd say. Anyway, the meaning would be more or less this:

"The 'crazier/weirder' the starting point would be, the more original the result would be."

or

"When the starting point is 'crazier/weirder', the result is often most original."


Understandable? Maybe someone else has a better way to put it.


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## Tabac

Thanks.  That is good enough for my purposes.  I'll have to read the story and see the original context.


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## Lemminkäinen

First of all, it's written in a sort of Norwegianized Danish. Old Norwegian is something quite different 

Second, it seems to me the meaning of _gal_ here isn't "crazy", it's "wrong".


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## Larsipan

Well, whether it's "crazy/weird/strange" or "wrong" is all a question about context, I guess. You're probably right about the  "Norwegianized Danish" vs old Norwegian (not "Old Norwegian"), it's really not my field...


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## Tabac

Lemminkäinen said:


> First of all, it's written in a sort of Norwegianized Danish. Old Norwegian is something quite different
> 
> Second, it seems to me the meaning of _gal_ here isn't "crazy", it's "wrong".


I have no idea what the context is in the original, but here 'wrong' certainly makes sense if it's talking about the Nazi occupation.


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## Larsipan

Ibsen died in 1906, so it's definitely not the Nazi occupation he is referring to in this case.


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## Tabac

Larsipan said:


> Ibsen died in 1906, so it's definitely not the Nazi occupation he is referring to in this case.


I realize that Ibsen died before the Nazi occupation.  But the artist in this case chose something from Ibsen's writing that obviously could be applied to the situation during WWII.  Any idea of what the original referred to?


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## missTK

Why does this quote have anything to do with the occupation? Am I missing something?

I find it hard to believe that anyone would really choose that quote in relation to Nazi Germany...that could easily be very offensive IMO.


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## Lemminkäinen

Here's the quote from the original with a little more context. Peer has been talking about wanting to travel through time and history:



> Vel sandt,- min forkundskab er ikke grundig,
> og historiens indre mekaniske underfundig;-
> men pyt; hvor udgangspunktet er galest,
> blir tidt resultatet orginalest. -



However, he doesn't have a lot of knowledge about it and the "inner mechanics" of history are deceptive. He then exclaims (putting those objections aside) that when the starting point is the least favorable (I read _galest_ as being synonymous to _minst gunstig_, but I might be wrong) the result often turns out to be the most original.

If you could describe the art piece, perhaps it would make more sense


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## Tabac

missTK said:


> Why does this quote have anything to do with the occupation? Am I missing something?
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone would really choose that quote in relation to Nazi Germany...that could easily be very offensive IMO.


It's my understanding that because it was forbidden to show any signs of Norwegian patriotism during the Occupation, the population wore paper clips on their lapels or collars as a sign of patriotism (the paper clip having been invented by a Norwegian earlier in the century).

I believe that the intent of using that quote was *not* to be complimentary of the Nazis.


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## missTK

Tabac said:


> It's my understanding that because it was forbidden to show any signs of Norwegian patriotism during the Occupation, the population wore paper clips on their lapels or collars as a sign of patriotism (the paper clip having been invented by a Norwegian earlier in the century).



This is true.

However, I think you may be over-interpreting somewhat...what if it is only referring to the invention of the paper clip? I feel like most people, today, would simply see the paper clip as an example of Norwegian ingenuity and invention, a source of pride for that reason.



Tabac said:


> I believe that the intent of using that quote was *not* to be complimentary of the Nazis.



Maybe not, but it is how it comes off to me. That quote has a "society context" based on how it is normally used in Norwegian, regardless of how you choose to read the original Ibsen.

Maybe I am unusual, but I consider that quote as a sort of "ah, well, sometimes something good/surprising/creative comes out of a bad idea/starting point".  Like "well, Hitler may have had the wrong philosophy but they sure got some interesting and creative results out of it". Which, to me, is offensive even if it's perhaps not exactly complimentary.


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## Rolf Aalberg

Lemminkäinen said:


> Here's the quote from the original with a little more context. Peer has been talking about wanting to travel through time and history:
> 
> 
> 
> However, he doesn't have a lot of knowledge about it and the "inner mechanics" of history are deceptive. He then exclaims (putting those objections aside) that when the starting point is the least favorable (I read _galest_ as being synonymous to _minst gunstig_, but I might be wrong) the result often turns out to be the most original.
> 
> If you could describe the art piece, perhaps it would make more sense



I tend to interpret _galest_ as _most wrong_ but that is not too far from _minst gunstig, _i.e. _least favourable/appropriate_. If, as a Norwegian I should attempt to translate into English it would be 

"When the starting point (assumption) is _most wrong (_or_ wrongest)_, the result often will be the _most original."_ (or _originalest_).

But what about simply "Where the initial assumption is the wrongest, the result often will be the originalest"? Wouldn't that be perfectly understandable by (most) English speaking people? But I dont' know anything about such things.


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