# How vulgar is crap?



## fenixpollo

*How vulgar is the word "crap", and why do you think so?*

I found several previous threads -- all in the Spanish forum -- in which people opined about whether they think "crap" is a vulgar word: crap, cut the crap, take a crap.  In fact, the question of crap's vulgarity comes up in many of the threads about "crap" (Although not in any of the French threads. Coincidence?) 

The register or connotation that this word has is a very important issue when you're looking for a translation into a second language, especially when crap is used in a context in which it means something other than "excrement".

In order to answer this question, I suppose we might get into several issues, such as generational differences, regional variations, the definition of "vulgar", and possibly other matters that might _seem_ off topic,  yet are part of the discussion. 

This thread is for anyone that has an opinion -- natives and non-natives alike.


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## petereid

Crap in its basic form means "shit"  
I am going for a crap. The dog's crapped on the lawn. 
It has come to mean rubbish or bad.
What a load of crap. That's  crap workmanship. The weather is crap today,
.
etc.....


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## SweetBird

I think that the word crap is pretty vulgar even though it is widely used. 

I would not use this word in a business letter or interview or in any "polite" setting.

Oh there is a casino dice game called "craps".


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## kan3malato

HI all.
My English is poor but as far as I know crap very often It's vulgar.
Have a look at this http://www.wordreference.com/enit/crap.
It's a "dangerous" word and I use It just with very close friends.
Thanks.


ps
wow!!I've just noticed I wrote my 500 post here in "premier league"


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## AWordLover

Hi fenixpollo,

The word crap as it relates to excrement is vulgar on a par with the word shit.

A quick look in the dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crap gives lots of uses and shades of vulgarity that matches closely with my view.

The degree to which society considers discussions of bodily functions to be taboo or vulgar is not static. I think that during the last 50 years the strength of these taboos has weakened dramatically.

As an aside, I was surprised to learn that the word isn't derived from John Crapper's name. I was also surprised to learn that John Crapper was not the inventor of the flush toilet.


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## Matching Mole

It's a milder version of shit, almost a euphemism, not very offensive, but not a word to use in situations where respectful language would be appropriate.

I think "take a crap" is the most vulgar, as it is literal. I wouldn't use that in front of anyone. I think the least offensive usage is in something like: "That episode of 'Friends' was crap", this is quite mild I think.

"Cut the crap" is fairly belligerent, I think, but that's not much to do with the offensiveness of "crap" per se.

I think there is an element of humour in the use of the word.

This is my view from a British perspective.

(I agree with kan3malato's comment about usage with friends only.)


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## Q-cumber

What about an adjective "crappy" and superlative "crappiest"? Are these a bit "softer"?   For example, in Russian a word "crappy"(shitty) is definitely less vulgar, than a "crap" (shit).


In my opinion the word "crap" is somewhat equal to "bullshit" by its vulgarness' level.


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## ernest_

Hello mate,
To me, 'crap' has the same rank as 'shit' or 'shite' in terms of offensiveness, as they all have the same meaning; although I can understand that some words may lose their original meaning, perhaps 'crap' doesn't mean the same as 'shit' to a native speaker.

Anyroad, I was going to open a similar thread; if you don't mind I'll ask here. It'd be nice to have a list sorted by politeness of the following words: _crap, shite, shit, bollocks, rubbish_ (meaning 'nonsense'). Additions are also welcome.


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## fenixpollo

I think it's relevant to compare "crap" in vulgarity to other words with similar meaning. 

One of the meanings of _crap_ is "excrement". I would say that while petereid and wordlover are correct in that it's a synonym of _shit_, I think that it doesn't have the same register or vulgarity: I would place it slightly lower on the list (meaning less vulgar) than _shit_. 

The other words you listed do not mean "excrement" and are not common in American English, so I can't comment on them.

Cheers.


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## AWordLover

There is something special about crap (as distinguished from shit). The term *crap out* comes from the *game of craps *and is not more vulgar than discussing other casino gambling such as blackjack.


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## Musical Chairs

I consider "crap" not as vulgar as "shit." It's probably about as offensive as "darn."


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## cuchuflete

When used as a synonym for shit, it is nearly as vulgar.  When used to describe random objects or material, it is not vulgar, but colloquial register.


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## Musical Chairs

I don't agree..."why are you giving me all this crap?" is not nearly as offensive as "why are you giving me all this shit?"


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## SweetBird

I am sorry Musical Chairs but they are both pretty vulgar and offensive except in the company of close friends.


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## Musical Chairs

"except in the company of close friends" - yes. But if you weren't, why would you use the words anyway?


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## Xewells

To me, the word crap is safe word. There are for worse words I could use and by using crap I'm probably censoring my language. This may come with being young, my parents don't use crap (except on rare occaisions). I think it's a generation thing. I know very few people my age who find the word crap offensive. The problem arises when interacting with people from other generations. When I talk to my dad, I know doesn't appreciate the word so I don't use it with him. I also wouldn't use this in a formal setting (ie business meetings, letters, nice dinners, etc.). But as far as everyday usage goes, it's usable.


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## vachecow

I think it depends where you are.  "Darn" isn't going to bother anyone, while "shit" is generally considered vulgar.  "Crap" is somewhere in between.  Its something I wouldn't say in church, but if I'm walking around on the street I won't think twice about it.


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## Spaghetti888

I agree with Xewells, but it all depends on the context of course! For example, you would say "I'm going to the toilet" but you wouldn't say "I'm taking a crap"!!!
I've defintely seen its level of vulgarity drop since the first time I came across it as a child


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## timpeac

I find it fairly offensive, not quite as offensive as "shit". It is my impression, based on American TV I've seen, that it is more common in the US and not quite so offensive. One example is hearing children use it in pre-watershed shows whereas I'm fairly sure no British made programme would have a kid use that word pre-watershed.


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## TheIndemo

I don't find it very offensive although I wouldn't say it if I could help it. It is one of the mildest swearwords around though I would say. I don't think I would say it in front of my parents.


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## Musical Chairs

I think it's worse than (edit: I meant NOT worse than...sorry) "shit" because you can say it more often in more settings without getting into trouble. For example, even if you were with strangers and you cut yourself, you can say "crap" and people will be like ouch...whereas if you went "shit" they'd be like :-o (maybe)


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## Spaghetti888

Musical Chairs said:


> I think it's worse than "shit" because you can say it more often in more settings without getting into trouble. For example, even if you were with strangers and you cut yourself, you can say "crap" and people will be like ouch...whereas if you went "shit" they'd be like :-o (maybe)


It's definitely not worse than _shit_. I mean, even _shit_ itself isn't that offensive anymore....


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## Musical Chairs

Seriously. Especially among teenagers, "shit" is used in much the multipurpose way "fuck" is: for example, "take a shit," "shitfaced," "shit!," and there have been modified forms like "shat" to make it sound not so offensive --- pretty common. Maybe it's just where I live, but...I don't see how "crap" can be as offensive or more offensive than "shit."


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## koabr3gn

I really don't think "crap" is that vulgar. But, then again, I am a college student which means vulgarity is the norm! lol. 
I wouldn't say it in a professional setting but in everyday speech it's not that bad. 
I say it all the time...and so do my professors!


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## Musical Chairs

Oh yes, a few of my professors have used the word shit and people just laugh it off --- no offense taken.


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## winklepicker

Usual rules apply: non-natives beware. While _crap_ may be in common use in many social settings, it is not in all.


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## looking-at-the-stars

In my opinion, offensiveness is relative. If the word "crap" doesn't offend the people you say it too, then it's not offensive in that situation. That being said, it probably wouldn't offend the younger crowd but it should only be used in VERY informal situations. I've heard teachers and professionals say all the time, but once you reach the point that "crap" becomes ok in the classroom, the class has usually reached informal in my book.
I, personally, don't take offense to "crap" (especially if the speaker doesn't mean to offend). But like koabr3gn, I'm a college student so I hear a relatively high amount of vulgarity in conversations.
Also, on a whole, most people I've met find "shit" more offensive than "crap."


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## Q-cumber

Uh-oh...nobody answered my question. What do you think about an adjective - "crappy". Some examples: "I've been in a crappy mood all week". "This is a crappy situation",  "...through the great times and crappy times" and so on. Do these sentences sound vulgar or rude to you? In a word, would you say such a phrase to your mother?


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## coiffe

Q-cumber said:


> Uh-oh...nobody answered my question. What do you think about an adjective - "crappy". Some examples: "I've been in a crappy mood all week". "This is a crappy situation",  "...through the great times and crappy times" and so on. Do these sentences sound vulgar or rude to you? In a word, would you say such a phrase to your mother?



Depends on the mother.

There is a certain neutrality to the word "crappy." As several already noted, crap is a euphemism for shit, and therefore crappy is a little more proper, less vulgar, than shitty. That said, it still retains some vulgarity and I think will always be slightly vulgar because it refers to the bodily function. It's not until you get to a word like "bad" or "unfavorable" or "losing", i.e. "This is a bad situation," that the construction ceases to be vulgar. As long as you can see someone hunkered over a toilet, it's vulgar.


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## Q-cumber

*coiffe*

Thanks, I got it. But, should we put these two words - "crap" & "crappy" on the vulgarity scales,  will the scales balance?


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## coiffe

Q-cumber said:


> *coiffe*
> 
> Thanks, I got it. But, should we put these two words - "crap" & "crappy" on the vulgarity scales,  will the scales balance?



Great question. Actually I would say no, they don't balance. Crap equates to shit (as in the steaming pile of), whereas crappy may just equate more to bad, i.e. The weather is crappy today. Crap is more vulgar than crappy.

I don't think "crap" is particularly vulgar, but I wouldn't use it in certain contexts and situations. In a formal situation, you could say somebody's speech was a "load of crap," but it would be more delicate to say that it was "really off the mark" or something.


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## fenixpollo

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.

I have a hard time with the idea that a curse word can be vulgar in one situation and not vulgar in another... but apparently the consensus is that  most people consider that crap is sometimes almost as vulgar as "shit", but usually no more vulgar than "darn".


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## Tatzingo

I don't consider it vulgar. I would use it to emphasise the quality (or lack of) of something. In my mind, it it a bit stronger than rubbish. I'd avoid it if i were being polite, but in all seriousness, if i were being polite, I wouldn't even say that something is rubbish.

Tatz.


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## Outsider

Matching Mole said:


> It's a milder version of shit, almost a euphemism, not very offensive, but not a word to use in situations where respectful language would be appropriate.
> 
> I think "take a crap" is the most vulgar, as it is literal. I wouldn't use that in front of anyone. I think the least offensive usage is in something like: "That episode of 'Friends' was crap", this is quite mild I think.
> 
> "Cut the crap" is fairly belligerent, I think, but that's not much to do with the offensiveness of "crap" per se.


This is my impression, as well.

Neil Young has an amusing song named _Piece of Crap_ (look for the lyrics on the net). I don't think it sounds as aggressive as _Piece of Shit_ would be.


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## ernest_

I've found a survey in Britain about expletive words. You can read it here:
http://www.asa.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/...551F57FE/0/ASA_Delete_Expletives_Dec_2000.pdf

In short, _crap_ is at position 26, in between _Jesus Christ_ (25) and _bloody_ (27), well below _shit_ (17) and _bollocks_ (8).


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## coiffe

ernest_ said:


> I've found a survey in Britain about expletive words. You can read it here:
> http://www.asa.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/...551F57FE/0/ASA_Delete_Expletives_Dec_2000.pdf
> 
> In short, _crap_ is at position 26, in between _Jesus Christ_ (25) and _bloody_ (27), well below _shit_ (17) and _bollocks_ (8).



Priceless.


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## liliput

I've heard that the word "crap" comes from Thomas Crapper - the man who invented the flushing toilet.
It's less offensive than "shit" and more offensive than "poo".


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## Packard

I think the intent of the word determines how offensive it is.

If I say, "Don't give me this crap", and the intent is "Don't give me this nonsense", then it is not too offensive.

But if someone says, "I am going to take a crap", then it is pretty offensive as the meaning is "I am going to take a shit".

There are other words that are used similarly.

"Schmuck", which in Yiddish means "penis" [slang] is an example.  

"That guy is such a schmuck", has the meaning that he is such a "jerk", and not that he is a "penis".  I would not find this too offensive either.


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## timpeac

Offshoot discussion copied here http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=485846.

Please ensure that all comment here are about "crap" and nothing else, although that doesn't imply that the posts need to_ be_ crap.

timpeac in mod mode.


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## timpeac

Packard said:


> I think the intent of the word determines how offensive it is.
> 
> If I say, "Don't give me this crap", and the intent is "Don't give me this nonsense", then it is not too offensive.
> 
> But if someone says, "I am going to take a crap", then it is pretty offensive as the meaning is "I am going to take a shit".


But by that argument, surely all euphemism would be useless since the intent would be known. For example, your argument would prove that "number 2" in the phrase "He's gone for a number 2" would be as offensive as "shit", wouldn't it?


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## Packard

timpeac said:


> But by that argument, surely all euphemism would be useless since the intent would be known. For example, your argument would prove that "number 2" in the phrase "He's gone for a number 2" would be as offensive as "shit", wouldn't it?


 
I don't think that "I am going to take a crap" is a euphemism at all.  A euphemism is a kinder way of phrasing an unpleasant fact.  I think this is simply a different way of phrasing it and not a euphemism.


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## Bubbles~:P

I don't believe the word "crap" to be very offensive, it only deserves a warning from my mother, if she's in a bad mood. But whenever my friend Cassie-D says "crap" *OR* "shit" the teacher says nothing, and I go to a catholic school. I wouldn't consider "crap" as a swear word.


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## timpeac

Packard said:


> I don't think that "I am going to take a crap" is a euphemism at all. A euphemism is a kinder way of phrasing an unpleasant fact. I think this is simply a different way of phrasing it and not a euphemism.


But it is if it comes from the name of the maker of toilets, surely?


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## Bubbles~:P

Indeed, yes. But I don't mind fowl laguage at all, I use it enough around my friends.


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## liliput

> Indeed, yes. But I don't mind *fowl *laguage at all, I use it enough around my friends.


Sorry, I have to correct you here: *fowl *language would be spoken by chickens or indeed any other type of bird. I believe you mean *foul *language.


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## fenixpollo

Packard said:


> I think the intent of the word determines how offensive it is.
> 
> If I say, "Don't give me this crap", and the intent is "Don't give me this nonsense", then it is not too offensive.
> 
> But if someone says, "I am going to take a crap", then it is pretty offensive as the meaning is "I am going to take a shit".


 The flaw in your argument is that "crap" is a synonym of "shit", not a synonym of "nonsense".  

If you say, "don't give me this crap", what you are really saying is "don't give me this shit", but you're saying it in a way that won't get you in trouble with your Catholic-school teacher. In other words, "crap" is a euphemism -- a kinder way of stating an unpleasant fact.





> "Schmuck", which in Yiddish means "penis" [slang] is an example.
> 
> "That guy is such a schmuck", has the meaning that he is such a "jerk", and not that he is a "penis".  I would not find this too offensive either.


 Again, "schmuck" is not a synonym of "jerk", as far as I know. If you call a person a "schmuck", you're calling them a penis.

Just because a word is a less-vulgar variant of another, doesn't mean that the definition of the word changes.  "Crap" means "excrement".


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## panjandrum

Specifically when used to refer to excrement, the OED labels crap as_ coarse slang_.
Used to refer to nonsense, rubbish, the label is _slang_.
That doesn't help a great deal, since if I say your work is a load of crap you don't know which definition I have in mind.


Crap has been around since long before Thomas Crapper.



> Despite urban legend, Crapper did not invent the flush toilet (the myth being helped by the surname). However, Crapper put in effort to popularise it and did come up with some related inventions. He was noted for the quality of his products and received several Royal Warrants. The noun "crap" was in use long before he was born, but no longer used in Victorian Britain.
> *Wiki *


See also *theplumber.com* and the *Urban Legends Reference Pages*.


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## Packard

fenixpollo said:


> The flaw in your argument is that "crap" is a synonym of "shit", not a synonym of "nonsense".
> 
> If you say, "don't give me this crap", what you are really saying is "don't give me this shit", but you're saying it in a way that won't get you in trouble with your Catholic-school teacher. In other words, "crap" is a euphemism -- a kinder way of stating an unpleasant fact. Again, "schmuck" is not a synonym of "jerk", as far as I know. If you call a person a "schmuck", you're calling them a penis.
> 
> Just because a word is a less-vulgar variant of another, doesn't mean that the definition of the word changes. "Crap" means "excrement".


 
What is the intent of the person using the word?  Is he saying "I think you are a penis?" or is he saying "I think you are a jerk"?


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## cuchuflete

fenixpollo said:


> The flaw in your argument is that "crap" is a synonym of "shit", not a synonym of "nonsense".


  And a possible flaw in this statement is the assumption that the word crap has only a single meaning.   There are many English words with a multitude of meanings. I believe this is one of them.
_Random House Unabridged:
_


> –noun
> 1.Vulgar. a.excrement.   b.an act of defecation.
> 2.Slang: Sometimes Vulgar. a.nonsense; drivel.   b.falsehood, exaggeration, propaganda, or the like
> 3.refuse; rubbish; junk; litter:





> Again, "schmuck" is not a synonym of "jerk", as far as I know. If you call a person a "schmuck", you're calling them a penis.


 I think you are confusing etymology with current meaning.



> _noun_(Yiddish) a jerk
> WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.





> n.    _Slang_
> A clumsy or stupid person; an oaf.
> [Yiddish shmok, _penis, fool_, probably from Polish smok, _serpent, tail_.]
> The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition





> schmuck "contemptible person," 1892,* from* E.Yiddish shmok, lit. "penis," from Old Pol. smok "grass snake, dragon."


emphasis added.


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## JamesM

fenixpollo said:


> Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
> 
> I have a hard time with the idea that a curse word can be vulgar in one situation and not vulgar in another... but apparently the consensus is that most people consider that crap is sometimes almost as vulgar as "shit", but usually no more vulgar than "darn".


 
I'd disagree with that, and I don't see that consensus when I read through this thread.

"Darn" is so mild that I would use it with a child.  I would not say "crap" to a child.   I believe people would not think twice of my saying, "Darn! The cat crawled under the sofa again" around a child, but to say, "Crap! The cat..." etc. would be considered offensive by many parents when speaking around their child.

"Crap" is much milder than "shit", in my opinion, but much stronger than "darn."


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## fenixpollo

Thanks for the definitions, cuchu. My understanding of "schmuck" was hazy, at best. Now I get it. 





cuchuflete said:


> I think you are confusing etymology with current meaning.


 I believe you're right. I was looking at the thing too literally.

Here's what I should have said: When someone uses a word, they are invoking the etymology, regardless of how innocuous their intention.  In other words, even though a person can use "crap" to mean "litter" or "junk", it still refers to excrement.  

It appears from your definitions of "schmuck" that the word used to mean "penis", but it doesn't anymore, and that Yiddish-speakers can say that the definition of the word has changed to the point that "penis" is no longer the definition of the word.  

I don't think that we are far enough away from the origin of "crap" to be able to say that the meaning has changed and that "feces" is no longer a relevant definition of the word. As I see it, all of the other meanings of the word flow from that one.  

However, my motive for this thread was to find out if other people feel that the word has changed enough to make "crap" a totally innocuous word... and why they think that.  Perhaps I should have included this concept in my original question, but it wasn't clearly phrased in my head at that point.  Thanks for helping to clarify the issue.


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## cuchuflete

I'll go along with you—part way at least—in agreeing that crap may retain overtones or subliminal references to 
excrement.  Usage, however, has given it some other, more innocuous meanings, where the odor of the original is so slight as to be beyond the olfactory perceptions of most speakers and listeners.  Of course context can point directly at the original, stench and all, in such phrases as 'take a crap'.   

I also agree that crap retains feces as one of its definitions. That doesn't preclude other, milder definitions.

Consider another vulgarity--bullshit.  It means the excrement of a bull, and may be literally used to express that.  It also means 'utter nonsense' or 'contemptible lies'.  When used to convey those ideas, the reference to taurine feces may be noted, lurking in the subconscious, but most people would not think of a meadow muffin when hearing it.  Moving from the noun form weakens the link to the original even more: "Don't bullshit me!"
That isn't apt to make any listener think of a defecating bull, is it?


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## Musical Chairs

People say "BS" for short, which somehow doesn't sound as offensive. Edit: This seems true for all modified offensive words, like "fack" and "shat."


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## liulia

When I lived in the US, I noticed that many people seemed to find "crap" less offensive than "shit", but as far as I am concerned they are equally vurlgar!


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## anothersmith

I consider it a mildly vulgar word -- much less vulgar than "shit" -- but because it's a vulgar word I would never use it in polite conversation or in the presence of children, the elderly, a boss, the clergy, etc.  

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, if that makes a difference.


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## timpeac

Musical Chairs said:


> People say "BS" for short, which somehow doesn't sound as offensive. Edit: This seems true for all modified offensive words, like "fack" and "shat."


I don't wish to deviate this thread but I can't let this remain in case it misleads - personally I have never heard "fack", and "shat" exists very much in its own right (not as a euphemistic changing of "shit") as a possible past tense of "to shit" and is, to my ear, very offensive. What facts do you base the above statement on?

Edit - goggling "I fack" for English language only gives only 90 results, quite a few of which are still in other languages (and none of the remainder, as far as I could see, seemed to be using it euphemistically, just as a misspelling). http://www.google.co.uk/search?as_q...as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

I'd call that, to borrow a colleague's phrase, statistical dust.


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## liulia

I do know people who say "Shoot!" when they mean "Shit!"  And Irish people who say "Feck!" But I have never heard the expressions mentioned by Musial Chairs!


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## Spaghetti888

fenixpollo said:


> Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
> 
> I have a hard time with the idea that a curse word can be vulgar in one situation and not vulgar in another... but apparently the consensus is that  most people consider that crap is sometimes almost as vulgar as "shit", but usually no more vulgar than "darn".


This is the novelty that is the English language - you can use various words in various ways (like 'get') for instance. With swearing, there's a huge variation in levels of offensiveness and you probably only need a few of the core words to express anything from humour to extreme offensiveness...


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## fenixpollo

cuchuflete said:


> I'll go along with you—part way at least—in agreeing that crap may retain overtones or subliminal references to
> excrement. Usage, however, has given it some other, more innocuous meanings, where the odor of the original is so slight as to be beyond the olfactory perceptions of most speakers and listeners.


 Maybe that's my difficulty. It isn't imperceptible to me. Perhaps I'm hyperconscious of words and their origins -- a supersmeller, if you will -- and I can't eliminate from my mind the scatalogical origin of "crap".





> I also agree that crap retains feces as one of its definitions. That doesn't preclude other, milder definitions.
> 
> Moving from the noun form weakens the link to the original even more: "Don't bullshit me!" That isn't apt to make any listener think of a defecating bull, is it?


 Yes... _this_ listener, anyway.


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## timpeac

Spaghetti888 said:


> This is the novelty that is the English language - you can use various words in various ways (like 'get') for instance. With swearing, there's a huge variation in levels of offensiveness and you probably only need a few of the core words to express anything from humour to extreme offensiveness...


Wouldn't like to get into a debate about whether this is novel to the English language, but what does occur to me is we need to stress the role of local variation. My general experience, other threads, and this thread lead me to believe that _in general_ (for there will be some BE speakers for who it is mild, and some AE speakers for who it is offensive) "crap" is much more offensive in BE than in AE, and remains many more of its scatalogical overtones in BE than in AE.

At the end of the day, etymology is interesting (including to me!) but in practice irrelevant to 99% of speakers, the important thing is the effect on the _ears of the listener_, not the etymology or even the motivation or intent of the speaker - in my opinion.


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## Musical Chairs

Nobody really says it in real life. It's mostly online and in this youtube everyone likes and stuff.

Edit: Though people DO say "eff that" in real life (not as bad as the real thing). My English class had a discussion one day about if we consider "nigga" to be less offensive than "nigger" or when said by certain people (like African American / black people themselves).


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## liliput

> Nobody really says it in real life. It's mostly online and in this youtube everyone likes and stuff.


Not true.
I, and many people I know will refer to something that is not very good as "crap" or "a bit crap". Expressions such as "get all this crap off my desk" are also common in BE. A less offensive alternative is "rubbish" which can be used in exactly the same way.


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## Elowen

timpeac said:


> My general experience, other threads, and this thread lead me to believe that _in general_ (for there will be some BE speakers for who it is mild, and some AE speakers for who it is offensive) "crap" is much more offensive in BE than in AE, and remains many more of its scatalogical overtones in BE than in AE.



 I’m surprised you say that, as I’m British and regard “crap” to be extremely mild. My mother tells people off for saying “bloody” but “crap” doesn’t get a mention – in fact she says it herself. The survey quoted above was British, and put “crap” right at the bottom of the list of obscenities.


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## Packard

Language (all, I believe) are in a constant, but glacially slow, state of change.

No where in the English language is the change faster than at the frayed edge of the fabric where slang and colloquial reside.

I think that "crap" will never make it into formal writing or speaking, but it may gain more acceptance over time.  The more we use the word in deviation from its original meaning, the cleaner it will smell.

So to answer the original question:  It depends.


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## panjandrum

Musical Chairs said:


> Nobody really says it in real life. It's mostly online and in this youtube everyone likes and stuff.


I'm afraid we do.  In my world both senses of crap are used, and we have no difficulty in distingushing, by context, between crap = shit and crap = rubbish.


			
				Musical Chairs said:
			
		

> Edit: Though people DO say "eff that" in real life (not as bad as the real thing). My English class had a discussion one day about if we consider "nigga" to be less offensive than "nigger" or when said by certain people (like African American / black people themselves).


No comment on the off-topic asides - see other threads that discuss these specifically.


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## Musical Chairs

That was in response to "who says 'shat' and 'fack?' (vowel changes)" not...whatever you thought I was answering.


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## timpeac

Elowen said:


> I’m surprised you say that, as I’m British and regard “crap” to be extremely mild. My mother tells people off for saying “bloody” but “crap” doesn’t get a mention – in fact she says it herself. The survey quoted above was British, and put “crap” right at the bottom of the list of obscenities.


Personally I don't consider it to be particularly offensive either (but then again I'm not easily shocked) - my comment was purely contrastative between BE and AE and what I've seen and opinions I've heard on the issue. Look at some AE comments above like "crap" would be an acceptable thing to say without censure in front of a catholic school teacher. I can't imagine a BE speaker saying that - but again, I'm sure that some BE speakers could as there is always a range of opinions on such issues. I do feel that the weight of shock on this side of the pond is greater than on the other.


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## cuchuflete

Musical Chairs said:


> Nobody really says it in real life. It's mostly online and in this youtube everyone likes and stuff.



I cannot speak for wherever you live, but I assure you it is not the slightest bit uncommon to
hear crap, in its milder and more pungent forms, spoken throughout the Middle Atlantic and New England states.  I've heard it in the Midwest and in California as well. The word is not a rarity at all.
I didn't learn it online, as online didn't exist when I was growing up, and I am only vaguely familiar with youtube.


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## Musical Chairs

I suppose so. People type it that way and it's becoming more common. I would post the youtube but I don't know if it would be appropriate.


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## Elowen

timpeac said:


> Look at some AE comments above like "crap" would be an acceptable thing to say without censure in front of a catholic school teacher.



I didn't go to a Catholic school and don't know what religion most of my teachers were, but it wasn't particularly unusual for people to say "crap" in front of a teacher. I suppose the pupils would probably make an unconscious judgement on how the teacher would likely react before saying it though - some of them probably wouldn't have been amused.


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## cuchuflete

Musical Chairs said:


> I suppose so. People type it that way and it's becoming more common. I would post the youtube but I don't know if it would be appropriate.



If you are referring to anything other than the thread topic, "How vulgar is crap?", please continue in another thread.  This is getting disjointed and confusing.

Thanks.


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## mplsray

fenixpollo said:


> Maybe that's my difficulty. It isn't imperceptible to me. Perhaps I'm hyperconscious of words and their origins -- a supersmeller, if you will -- and I can't eliminate from my mind the scatalogical origin of "crap". Yes... _this_ listener, anyway.


 

Others have referred to _crap_ as if it has a scatalogical origin. Now, it may well be that we owe the present use of _crap_ to its having been chosen for use as a euphemism for various vulgar terms for feces, but _that is not the origin of the word,_ which in the beginning had no scatalogical connection.


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## fenixpollo

Ray, my first reaction to your post was to say "wrong" and to call "bullshit" on you.  I looked at the wiki page that panjandrum posted above and realized that I had been operating under the misguided belief that the etymology of "crap" was scatalogical. I see that in cuchu's definition above, #3 is more accurately the original meaning, while #1 is a modern variation.

Thanks for clearing this up for me, Ray.


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## Thomas Tompion

I'm not sure how relevant the etymology is, as words take on wings of their own, and the same word can be offensive in some contexts and mild in others.  An American can call someone a _bum_ in America without being very offensive, but he oughtn't to try that over here.  I wouldn't tell anyone they were talking _crap_, because that's a rough way of saying _bullshit_ - a word I'd be happy to use to mean nonsense.  I know people who dislike euphemism and say they are going for a _crap_ or a _shit_, and where the point needs to be made, that seems an acceptable way of making it in the company of familiars.  As an adjective, _crappy_ or, more usually now, _crap -_ as in _a crap film,_ for instance, often makes me smile: I would like to reserve it for something pretty unpleasant, but I know the young are free with the word, and I don't find it vulgar as much as robust.


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## timpeac

Elowen said:


> I didn't go to a Catholic school and don't know what religion most of my teachers were, but it wasn't particularly unusual for people to say "crap" in front of a teacher. I suppose the pupils would probably make an unconscious judgement on how the teacher would likely react before saying it though - some of them probably wouldn't have been amused.


Thanks for confirming the third sentence of my last post.


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## Judica

I don't consider it vulgar, but then I haven't cursed in over 20 years. I consider crap an alternative to using the swear word.


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## Bubbles~:P

Yeah, that's what I would say to that, the word "crap" is only just a little rude.


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## liulia

I suppose we often use words that are vulgar because we can't think of anything that is strong enough without being vulgar. Right?   So what are good alternatives to "crap" that are strong and not vulgar?


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## liliput

> I suppose we often use words that are vulgar because we can't think of anything that is strong enough without being vulgar. Right? So what are good alternatives to "crap" that are strong and not vulgar?


As I posted earlier I consider "rubbish" a good alternative when your using crap in the sense of "Get this crap of my desk", "This film is utter crap" or "You're crap at football". "Rubbish" dispenses with the vulgarity whilst retaining the sense of worthlessness.
For an expression such as "I don't give a crap" then I would use "damn" - "I don't give a damn". I think only extremely religious people are offended by the word "damn". "I don't give a monkey's" is another common expression, presumably a contraction of a longer expression "I don't give a monkey's [something]" I'm afraid I don't know the origin of the expression.
You could also use "poo" in certain circumstances if you want to retain the faecal reference, but "This program is complete poo" sounds a bit childish, and "Get this poo of my desk" could only really be used in the literal sense (i.e. someone has put an actual poo on your desk).


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## liulia

liliput - I think the whole point is getting rid of "the faecal reference", so "poo" would not be an improvement, I think! 

But I agree with you as regards words like "rubbish" "garbage" and "nonsense"  and "damn". There *are* alternatives!


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## Bubbles~:P

Ya, that's how I would put it


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## SolangeC

Depends on your upbringing, but "crap" has become one of the less offensive swear words. It is also used to say that something broke down or quit working as in "my cellphone just crapped out", to express disgust or dismay as in "Oh, crap, the cops caught me speeding", or to express a not-so-good condition, as in "it sure is a crappy day". It has grown into our common vocabulary, much like that detestable phrase "It sucks" (I hate it, but everybody else in this area uses it extensively, young and old alike). To be used with caution in formal settings and never at church, at any rate.


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## Disneyesque

Well, somehow I thought the word is *Crab*, who is a friend of Clams, who is a cousin of Lobsters. 
(I don't know why, but until I spelled it over here had I named the lobsters' mate 'Crap' in my brain... Eww, I don't eat craps! ) 

I heard the word a lot of time on Twitter, almost as equivalent to 'Gosh!', and thought 'Oh, they say it in a name of an animal. Then it is not that vulgar.' 
But I thoroughly understand it now... won't use it, preventing any situation making me vulgar.

In my opinion, it is less vulgar in UK/Ireland or something (Well, I need more various soothing phrase except _or something_.. Send me PM anybody has an idea ). 
I have no idea if it is true, but people from the region overuse the term on my Twitter timeline, while those from America do not use it that frequently.


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## JustKate

According to an online friend who is from Ireland but has family in the U.S., various curse words are used a lot more casually in Ireland and the UK, at least among younger people, than they are in the U.S. She says she has to guard her tongue a bit when she talks to her U.S. aunts, uncles and even cousins. 

But _crap_ is pretty mild, even here.

Addition: Oddly enough, it's probably less vulgar when being used to express frustration - e.g., "Oh crap! I forgot!" - than it is when being used literally, as in "That dog from across the street crapped on our lawn again."


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## Disneyesque

Oh.. I can see the nuance of your addition. But I won't use the word crap anyway, for it is dangerous for foreigners to use slangs. (Once learnt, suddenly popped up in inappropriate situations.) Well, if children using the word were spotted by parents, they don't tell them off that much more than the case of f-words... right?

Well, it is still related to the topic so I would keep saying... There are some of my favourite perfect Irish actors, who are mostly in mid/late twenties. From time to time, I spotted them using the cursing words including crap. e. g. feck, a**hole, ar*e... Think, as you said, it could be because they are more casually using those cursing words.


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## Nem'o

Hello,

I'm sorry to pull this thread up, but I'd rather not open a new one because my question is about the word "crap" compared to "bullshit"...
I've looked for an answer in the whole thread but did not really find anything conclusive, so here's my question:
Do you think "crap" is more/less/as vulgar than/as "bullshit"?
What would you say? If it's as vulgar, then is the difference regional/generational or is it just a question of "taste" (sorry for that)?

And finally, can you give me another slightly less vulgar word, but nothing like "nonsense" which sounds too posh for me (but I don't even know why)?


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## kyrintethron

The word "crap" is FAR less than vulgar than "bullshit". That's one of the reasons its used so frequently. At least in America, the word "shit" is still heavily censored, and "crap" is today's family-friendly substitute, lol.

That being said, there is a generational difference. In my grandmother's youth, "crap" was an offensive word. And even as recently as my own mother's youth (the 70's) phrases like "this sucks", "you're a dork" and "he's a douchebag" were much more vulgar and offensive than they are today. Today, you're likely to hear these phrase acceptably spoken by children, even on television, to substitute for more vulgar phrases referencing fecal matter and the genitalia.

Lastly, there are few things less vulgar than "crap", though it depends how it's used. If someone turns in a poorly-written essay, the teacher could say, "this is crap," and no one would take serious offense. If they said, "this is shit," they might very well face suspension. It's also quite impolite to say things like, "I need to go take a crap." That's a little vulgar, and we'd probably prefer the less direct, "I need to use the restroom."

Other low-vulgarity synonyms for "bullshit" include "trash", "rubbish" (though that's rather old-fashioned now), and my personal favorite: "garbage".

-K


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## Nem'o

Ok thank you for this explanation!
You just gave me a nice flashback with "rubbish"... It reminded me of the months I spent in Scotland to learn English some years ago. Well, of course, it has to be pronounced with the strong Scottish accent... (I wanted to say "you gave me a lovely Proust's madeleine" but I don't think you could understand if you're not French... That's a shame because that was exactly what happened!). 
Anyway, about "rubbish", do you think it's old-fashioned because you're American? Because I hear it quite often in GB... 
Well, maybe it is actually old-fashioned because I often hear it from older people's mouths but... 

And I think "garbage" is American too, isn't it? I didn't know we could use it as an interjection like "crap" or "rubbish"...! Good to know! Thanks.


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## kyrintethron

Hmm, as an interjection, I'd say "crap!" is distinct from "bullshit!" and "garbage!" "Crap!" is generally used like "shit!" to be a more forceful version of "oh no!" when the speaker experiences some adverse event. "Bullshit!", on the other hand, is used to accuse something of being false or a lie. "Garbage!" is not necessarily used often as an interjection, but when it is, it often expresses the speaker's displeasure with a given event. It's like a milder version of "that's bullshit!" For instance, if in a game of basketball, a shot goes into the rim, swirls around a few times, and then pops back out, the shooter might exclaim "garbage!", as if somehow bad luck, fate, or a broken rim interfered and caused him to miss his shot. 

As as for the old-fashioned "rubbish", I can definitely speak only from the American perspective, and over here, "rubbish" is grandma's word, lol. And I understand your meaning of Proust's madeleine. 

With "garbage" you're more likely to hear something being described as "garbage", and I'm certain I've heard Brits make use of the word in this ways as well. 

-K


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## Nem'o

Ok thank you very much!
Yes, I would have used "crap" only in sentences to mean "bullshit", like "this is crap!" and I know that in interjections it takes the meaning of "shit" or "damn" (Well, at least I guess it does...!). But I had never heard "garbage" as an interjection.
That's interesting. Well maybe I'll use it more often then, because I think it's a good alternative to "that's bullshit!" and I have to say I like how it sounds (maybe I'm being influenced by the band...)!


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## ESustad

"Crap" is much milder than "shit," which is a synonym.  While I wouldn't use it in a legal brief, it's not a word I'd hesitate to use around my mother.


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## ewie

As far as I know, _rubbish_ is still very much alive and well in the UK.  (_I_ certainly use it ~ a lot ~ anyway.)

_Bullshit_ is a good bit more vulgar than _crap_ here too  In between the two comes _bollocks_.


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