# FR: il aura toutefois essayé de résister



## Einhard

Bonjour,

Just a question on the "aura...essayé" in the following sentence:

*Le président...aura toutefois essayé de résister aussi longtemps que possible...*

_The president...shall have attempted however to resist as long as possible..._

It appears to be the future perfect, but it doesn't really make sense in the context, and should really be in one of the past tenses. Any suggestions?

Merci.


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## Lacuzon

Hi,

Your translation is perfect!


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## Einhard

Lacuzon said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your translation is perfect!


 
Just like myself really! 

Merci!


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## Maître Capello

Let me disagree… The meaning of this _futur antérieur_ is not "shall have attempted," but rather "has attempted"!


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## Lacuzon

Bonjour,

À la réflexion c'est en effet possible, mais cela dépendra surtout de la fin de la phrase non ?


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## Maître Capello

I'd rather say it depends on what was said before… Anyway, it is indeed this comment of Einhard's that supports a past-tense meaning:


Einhard said:


> It appears to be the future perfect, but it  doesn't really make sense in the context, and should really be in one of  the past tenses.


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## Lacuzon

Sorry! It seems I missed that! My mind was on _possible_*...* I expected before doing something.


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## brillent

Einhard said:


> *Le président...aura toutefois essayé de résister aussi longtemps que possible...*
> 
> _The president...shall have attempted however to resist as long as possible..._



It almost sounds like...a prediction? I'm imagining a context like, "In 2020, France will finally make its bid for global conquest. The French people will no longer be willing to be restrained by a national border. *The [French] president will, however, have resisted [this rash act] as long as possible [thereby reducing the damage somewhat by giving the civilized nations of the world time to prepare]*."

Or something similarly silly. Otherwise that tense doesn't seem to make sense to me (just sounds like somebody dropped a i-t on the end of aura), but it's possible there's an idiomatic usage for "will have done something" in French I'm not familiar with.


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## marget

I agree with Maître Capello.  I think the futur antérieur can be used to express an idea in the past.  I know that the futur simple can be used to convey conjecture in the present.  Il aura faim can mean "He must be hungry".  I suppose that the future perfect can express conjecture in the past.


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## jann

I happened across the following comment in a French grammar text (Barson, 1996) while l was looking for something else (my bold, exact quote except that I have not reproduced the examples given for tenses other than the futur antérieur):





> Le conditionnel présent et le conditionnel passé sont quelquefois utilisés pour annoncer une fait douteux ou une supposition. * Le futur et le futur antérieur ont parfois cette fonction aussi.*
> [...]_
> Où est Sylvie ? Elle n'est pas venue à la fête ? -- Elle aura oublié la date. (supposition)_


We don't have the full context, but if we did, I supsect that the sentence _Le président aura toutefois essayé..._ would be a clear example of this suppositional usage.


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## Outsider

...Which might translate to "The President *is believed* to have tried to resist as long as possible".


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## Oddmania

jann said:


> I happened across the following comment in a French grammar text (Barson, 1996) while l was looking for something else (my bold, exact quote except that I have not reproduced the examples given for tenses other than the futur antérieur):We don't have the full context, but if we did, I supsect that the sentence _Le président aura toutefois essayé..._ would be a clear example of this suppositional usage.




Um, you might be right, but I don't think it's a supposition here. Besides, I wouldn't use this tense to make suppositions, it just doesn't sound natural. 

Here, I think it's a French idiomatic sentence, much like _*Elle aura tenu longtemps !* , _which simply means _*She has held on long*_, or rather,  _*She held on long*_ (I think we can say you're implying it's past by saying *Elle aura tenu longtemps*. It may mean *Elle aura tenu longtemps avant d'abandonner.*)


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## jann

> Um, you might be right, but I don't think it's a supposition here.  Besides, I wouldn't use this tense to make suppositions, it just doesn't  sound natural


Be that as it may, I don't see the point in wasting our breath -- or tiring our fingers, as the case may be -- guessing about the text or inventing alternate examples.  It seems to me that without the original context, we've gotten as far as we can. 

EDIT: contexte trouvé 

So, why not use the passé composé in that sentence?  Because we cannot know for a fact that he "resisted as long as possible."  The comment is an observer's interpretation.  In English, the distinction between choosing futur antérieur over passé composé in that sentence is comparable to writing something like "...he seems to have resisted" or "...he apparently resisted" instead of just plain "...he resisted." 

Grevisse also points out the implications of uncertainty that are carried by futur antérieur usage to speak of past events:


> §888 (b) Le futur antérieur peut concerner un fait passé par rapport au moment de  la parole, mais qu’on envisage par rapport au moment où il sera  vérifié. (1) Pour énoncer une explication probable


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## Maître Capello

I agree with Oddmania: there is no probability or supposition in that sentence. The meaning is exactly that of a passé composé and indeed describes a *fact/result*. As a matter of fact, the excerpt of _Le Bon Usage_ that corresponds to the usage of the futur antérieur in that sentence is the paragraph that is right after the part you've quoted (§ 888, b, 2º):


> Pour donner plus d’ampleur au fait en prenant un point de repère dans le futur


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## marget

I know that the conditional mood is often used to report actual facts in the media in instances in which we might say "allegedly" or "believed to..." as Outsider suggested  because the one reporting the fact is not attesting to its veracity. It seems that this usage of the future perfect is an example of this style in this newspaper article.


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## Maître Capello

No, Marget. As I've been trying to say, that hypothetical meaning is definitely *not* possible here. Moreover, generally speaking, the adverb _toutefois_ makes that meaning very unlikely… This is confirmed by the context, “_Il a finalement cédé_.”


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## marget

Thank you, Maître. I'm not trying to say that a hypothetical meaning is being conveyed here. I've thought all along that a true fact was being reported. En fin de conte, j'aurai bien compris toutes vos explications


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## Outsider

Has everyone taken a look at the full article?


jann said:


> EDIT: contexte trouvé





> Le président Asif Ali Zardari, veuf de Benazir Bhutto (assassinée fin 2007), aura toutefois essayé de résister aussi longtemps que possible à la pression exercée par l'opposition afin de revenir à la Constitution parlementaire de 1973. Il a finalement cédé, après dix-huit mois de manoeuvres dilatoires.


To me this clearly says that President Asif Ali Zardari _is thought to have resisted_ the new legislation that limits the powers of the Pakistani President for as long as he could.

This is why context is so important, *Einhard*.


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## Maître Capello

Outsider said:


> Has everyone taken a look at the full article?


I have…





> To me this clearly says that President Asif Ali Zardari _is thought to have resisted_ the new legislation that limits the powers of the Pakistani President for as long as he could.


I don't think so… Maybe you should trust us natives about this…


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