# sero sed serio



## Quantz

The scene is in Germany, 1949, in Bavaria. There is a wall on the centralm place of the town.
"Beneath the heraldic coat of arms — a decorative nonsense —, there was an inscription. It read "Sero sed serio", which was latin for "We're richer than you are".

I'm totally lost with that one. Sero sed serio means "Late, but in earnest". I can't see the link — even ironic — with "*We're richer than you are*". 
Does anyone of you see anything more in it ?


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## broglet

Hi hellstan - it makes no sense to me either but what does it have to do with French-English translation?


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## L'irlandais

hellstan said:


> ...Does anyone of you see anything more in it ?


Hi hellstan,
I believe it's a slight at the fact the nobility generally have a family motto or maxim in Latin on their crest.  (Take the the English monarchy for example.)  So for "Joe Blogs" who doesn't understand (nor perhaps even care) what is written in Latin it means quite simply that those with the crest have more money than him.
That's my take on it at any rate.


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## Quantz

Thank you L'Irlandais. Very helpful.
In fact, I searched everywhere a translation from latin to french and found only one in english (does France forgot its latin ? I'm afraid it has).


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## L'irlandais

hellstan said:


> Thank you L'Irlandais. Very helpful.
> In fact, I searched everywhere a translation from latin to french and found only one in english (does has France forgotten its latin ? I'm afraid it has).


Hi again,
I think France is guilty of neglecting it's Aristocracy.  (Mind you they didn't much appreciate all the attention accorded to them following 16 juillet 1879.)


> En 1788, le pouvoir repose sur la monarchie absolue de droit divin.


Here's a Scottish translation of your phrase - "Late, but in earnest".  If you'd like to have a go at translating it, then we can correct your attempt.
 Cheers !


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## Quantz

Indeed…

"Tardifs, mais avec ferveur"


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## L'irlandais

hellstan said:


> Indeed…
> 
> "Tardifs, mais avec ferveur"


Excellent certainly closer than the 'ironic' "Nous sommes plus riches que vous". 
A+


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## danielovich

It took me a while to twig that "sero sed serio" did not literally mean we're richer than you, but rather that the mere possession of any family motto means we're richer than you. That is clearly what Philip Kerr meant when he wrote it!


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## Fred_C

Quantz said:


> Thank you L'Irlandais. Very helpful.
> In fact, I searched everywhere a translation from latin to french and found only one in english (does France forgot its latin ? I'm afraid it has).


Salve, amice.
Tibi assentior dicenti Francogalliam latinam linguam amississe, etsi nonnulli mites dementes (ex quibus particeps sum) resistere non desinunt.

Scio hunc nuntium a scopo destinato omnino secedere, sed est contributio mea ter millesima (3000a) huic foro!! Itaque spero eam non deletum iri a moderatore Flaminio.


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## L'irlandais

Quantz said:


> Indeed…
> 
> "Tardifs, mais avec ferveur"


How about _"En retard, mais pour de bon."_


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## cian63

maybe just maybe the inscription was actually SERO SED SERIE - which was my old 1960s school motto and was engraved on our silver cap badges. We were told it meant   ¨steadily forwards¨ . This seems plausible as we had a very eminent Latin teacher on the staff who would have corrected any error.  Anyone concur?


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## Schatwin

L'irlandais said:


> Hi again,
> I think France is guilty of neglecting it's Aristocracy.  (Mind you they didn't much appreciate all the attention accorded to them following 16 juillet 1879.)  Here's a Scottish translation of your phrase - "Late, but in earnest".  If you'd like to have a go at translating it, then we can correct your attempt.
> Cheers !


In this case it's the motto on the coat of arms for the Kerr family.  The book's author is Philip Kerr.


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## Rupert Smith

Quantz said:


> The scene is in Germany, 1949, in Bavaria. There is a wall on the centralm place of the town.
> "Beneath the heraldic coat of arms — a decorative nonsense —, there was an inscription. It read "Sero sed serio", which was latin for "We're richer than you are".
> 
> I'm totally lost with that one. Sero sed serio means "Late, but in earnest". I can't see the link — even ironic — with "*We're richer than you are*".
> Does anyone of you see anything more in it ?



It's a joke. The motto of the clan Kerr is "Sero sed serio" and it is seen on the coat of arms in the clan castle. Philip Kerr, who wrote the book, is part of the clan but doesn't live in the castle. It doesn't matter what the Latin really means - all it signifies is that the people who live in the castle are wealthier than the ordinary people, some of whom may even be part of the clan.


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## J.P. Kerr Catunda

Sero sed Serio is the moto engraved in Kerr's Clan coat of arms. It is a reference to their timing on battle and has nothing to do with wealth. They (we) were lowlanders who very often had protect Scottish Borders from England. In a particular time in the Middle Ages the army was summoned in short notice and arrived just in time to prevail over England in the battle field. Had they not arrived their fellow Scottish families would all have died that day.

The motto is dated centuries before Philip Kerr's birth, it has nothing to do with wealth and It's Latin meaning DOES matter.

Latin: Sero sed serio
English: Late but in Earnest
Portuguese: Tarde mas em tempo
French: _Tardifs, mais avec ferveur_


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## Snodv

Not to correct anyone--the translation is fine--but just to offer a different wording:  my book on Scottish tartans translates the Kerr _slogan_ as "Tardily but thoroughly."  I am quite sure from all said above that the "richer" translation is all in fun.


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## Glenfarclas

Snodv said:


> I am quite sure from all said above that the "richer" translation is all in fun.



The "richer" translation is the author's facetious way of saying that having _any_ Latin motto is really a way of proclaiming your family's status and wealth.


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## Snodv

Certe.  Recte.  (Hey, anagrams!)  Sic comprehendo.


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## karrez

Bonjour, Hello,
"Sero sed serio" means litterally : "Late, but seriously", rather, "Late but efficient..."  "Tardifs mais efficaces.."
This motto was given to the Kerr (Karr, Carre..) clan in reference to the Scottish victory over the English at Ancrum Moor (1545).  The Kerrs played a decisive part after arriving late in the day to help Scots to beat the Brits...
Kerr (Karr, Carre...) is supposedly an evolution of the ancient norse word "kjarr" referring to people living in marsh area... North men, Norman..
Carre (as well as Carré in French) people are spread from the North of France to Normandy and Brittany regions.
Kjarr, became Karr, Carr or Carre then "Care" (when the Brits invade Normandy) which pronunciation is close to Kerr...
Personnally, I often happen to achieve things "just in time"...
What do you think..?


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## karrez

Hi, Broglet,
the idea behind my question was to check if these informations were relevant to this community..

Referring to the Kerr clan, it appears from different sources that the "Kjarr" people sailed south from Norway to France (and elsewhere) and settled on the coast to Normandy (the country of North men) during the end of the IXth century; some of these Vikings crossed the Channel with William the Conqueror in 1066 and invaded Britain (Hastings) up north to the Scotland border, where the Kerr clan settled.

Philip Kerr novels reminds me a certain John Le Carré (whose real name was David Cornwell, supposedly...).
Take care...


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## alienal

I'm here because I found "sero sed serio" as a motto in an old (ca.1800) woodcut by Thomas Bewick.  Whereas Bewick usually incised pleasant, bucolic scenes, this one is very sad, even tragic:  it shows a man who has hung himself from a tree branch that extends over a stream.  His walking stick and bag are nearby on the bank, as well as a dog, agitated at the sight.  Below the tree, in the shadow of the bank, one reads "sero sed serio".  I can't quite make out what this has to do with a suicide - well, maybe in a roundabout, bitterly ironic way.  Am I warm or cold on this?  My file is so small I hadn't noticed the motto before, nor the dog.


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