# Hindi, Urdu: dhimkaa-falaana



## MonsieurGonzalito

Friends,

What is _dhimkaa-falaanaa_? also probably _falaana-dhimka_, Hindi: धिमका-फ़लाना, Urdu (probably) دِھمکا فلانا
The translation suggests it means something like "this and that, something unimportant".

I am not sure about the Urdu spelling.
In Spanish, from Arabic, we have _fulano_ / _fulana_ (the masculine and feminine forms, respectively) to refer to an unspecified, unimportant person. "_Fulana_" can also be used as a euphemism for prostitute.

But in the song ("Badtameez Dil", from the movie "Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani"), they say not "_fulaana_" but clearly "_falaana_", which apparently means "penis" in Urdu.
Apparently the "u" pronunciation is not realized in Urdu?

Unfortunately, the song doesn't help with much context, it seems mostly random images put together for phonetics

_havaa meN [Havanna] dekhaa
*dhimkaa-falaanaa* dekhaa 
siiNg kaa siNghaaṛaa khaake 
sher kaa gurraanaa dekhaa_

Any orientation would be much appreciated.


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## Alfaaz

Relevant entries:

فُلانا / فُلانَہ
ڈَھمْکا
غُرّانا
Careful speakers do pronounce the first word with a _pesh/Dhammah_, as has been discussed in previous threads. Also note, the third word in the list is written and pronounced with a _Ghain_.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thanks, @Alfaaz 
So the more proper pronunciation would be _dhamkaa-fulaanah_.
But what does it mean? "This and that, unimportant things" as suggested?


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## Alfaaz

Yes. 
Yes. _So and so, etc._ (depending on exact context)


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Alfaaz said:


> Yes.
> Yes. _So and so, etc._ (depending on exact context)


Thanks!




Alfaaz said:


> غُرّانا



ग़ुर्राना is only collected in Platts.
Bahri and Chaturvedi list and transcribe only गुर्राना, although ग़ुर्राना does seem more etymologically faithful.

Which one would be more appropriate in Hindi?


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## Alfaaz

Based on the entries, it would seem _gurraanaa_.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

OK, thanks, @Alfaaz


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> So the more proper pronunciation would be _dhamkaa-fulaanah_.


No! It's Dhamkaa, not dhamkaa!


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## MonsieurGonzalito

_Sorry, ढमका _



دھdhd̪ʱ ʱdhध्ڈDɖḍड्ڈھDhɖʱḍhढ्


thanks, @marrish


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## littlepond

Usually pronounced as _फलाना ढिमका_  or _फलाना ढिमाका _ in Hindi. Meaning "trivial, useless, miscellaneous".


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## desi4life

^ I think you mean फ़लाना (i.e. फ़ not फ).


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## littlepond

desi4life said:


> ^ I think you mean फ़लाना (i.e. फ़ not फ).



Yes.


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## marrish

In Urdu, the form also used and which I use is as in the following paragraph from an Urdu column:-



			
				روزنامہ ایکسپریس، خرم علی راؤ  جمعرات 18 جولائ 2019 said:
			
		

> ۔۔۔ایک میٹھا راگ باقی بچا ہے کہ ہر تنقید اور توجہ دلاؤ نوٹس پر یہی کہتے نظر آتے ہیں اجی بھائی میاں ! سابقہ بگاڑ ایسا تھا، سابقہ بگاڑ ویسا تھا انھوں نے یوں کر دیا اور ان کے بعد والوں نے اوں کر دیا۔ ہم کوشش کر رہے ہیں لیکن سابقہ اور مگر گزشتہ *فلانا ڈھمکانا* اگر، مگر چونکہ چنانچہ گویا کہ! ۔۔۔


ek miiThaa raag baaqii bachaa hae kih har tanqiid aur tawajjuh dilaa'uu noTis par yihii kahtee nazar aate haiN, "ajii ! bhaa'ii miyaaN ! saabiqah bigaaR aisaa thaa, saabiqah bigaaR waisaa thaa unhoN ne yuuN kar diyaa aur un ke ba3d waaloN ne uuN kar diyaa. ham koshish kar rahe haiN lekin saabiqah aur magar guzashtah falaanaa Dhamkaanaa agar, magar chuuNkih chunaaNchih goyaa kih! (...)


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> falaanaa Dhamkaanaa


No pesh?


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## marrish

No, not in this form/compound. As standalone I do use pesh and say _fulaaN_ (but no -aa).


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## marrish

Actually more often than not I tend to land up with any kind of vowel elided in that position as far as such compounds are concerned, and additionally when I speak Punjabi 'n' becomes NR...

That being said, in that sentence transliterating it [fulaanaa Dhimkaanaa] could be equally valid as falaanaa Dhamkaanaa.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Ah! The -a- short vowel could be a Punjabi thing, then.
See:






they are normally careful with the diacritics, but there is no -u- here.


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Ah! The -a- short vowel could be a Punjabi thing, then.
> See:
> [...]
> they are normally careful with the diacritics, but there is no -u- here.


Or, just a widespread, in Urdu non-standard or simply wrong (i.e. _Ghalatu l-3aam Ghair-faSiiH_) variant realization of that word, now that we know it's -a- in Hindi. As a matter of fact I've found this word mentioned in an Urdu book on such mispronunciations (I mean in Urdu, other languages differ). That book doesn't include any _Punjabisms_. BTW, _phalaaNRaa_ is the Haryanvi form, I heard it in Gujarati, too. I wouldn't know why to single out Punjabi for this.

Vowel modifications like this are presumably a trans-regional phenomenon, just like it is the case with many things Urdu.
I presume this is to be expected in Delhi's Urdu Bazaar as well as in UP and South India too, although I'm not so certain of that about the latter.


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## desi4life

marrish said:


> Actually more often than not I tend to land up with any kind of vowel elided in that position as far as such compounds are concerned, and additionally when I speak Punjabi 'n' becomes NR...
> 
> That being said, in that sentence transliterating it [fulaanaa Dhimkaanaa] could be equally valid as falaanaa Dhamkaanaa.



Is it written “fulaanah/falaanah” in Urdu rather than “fulaanaa/falaanaa”?


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## marrish

desi4life said:


> Is it written “fulaanah/falaanah” in Urdu rather than “fulaanaa/falaanaa”?


No, it's written with a full alif i.e. فلانا [fulaan_aa_/falaan_aa_], but, well, it belongs more to the spoken than written category.

[EDIT:] But the Urdu Lughat entry linked to by A. SaaHib lists the spelling with final -ah as alternate, however it does not provide any example from literature while all quotations it cites have -aa, -e, or -ii.

Extra information: فلانہ fulaan_ah_ is the feminine equivalent of Tom, Dick and Harry ( فلاں ), as in the expression فلانہ بنت فلاں [fulaan_ah_ bint fulaaN] 'so-and-so (f.) daughter of so-and-so (m.)'.

But in the echo-type compound like _Dhimkaa falaanaa_, the feminine form becomes falaan_ii_ ;-) i.e. '_Dhimkii falaanii_' (or, '_falaanii Dhimkii_').


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