# clearer / more clear



## vmtnezgil

No estoy seguro si se dice de una u otra forma o se puede decir de ambas, me podeis ayudar?


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## mhp

se puede usar una u otra. No creo que haya preferencia


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## vmtnezgil

Gracias, personalmente me suena mejor lo segundo pero pensaba que era mas correcto lo pimero por tener clear 2 silabas....


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## jacinta

Sí, iba a decir lo mismo.  A mí no me suena bien, "clearer".  ¡"More clear" es más facil pronunciar! aunque es totalmente correcto decir clearer.


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## Leslie_16

Me podrìan ayudar ¿¿¿Cuàl es el significado de clearer???


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## mother earth

The water in my swimming pool is clearer (more clear) now that it's clean.


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## rafaelgan

Entonces hay veces en las que se puede agregar -er y -more y las dos se puede usar?

Como se cuando se puede?


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## SEXTO SENTIDO

vmtnezgil said:


> No estoy seguro si se dice de una u otra forma o se puede decir de ambas, me podeis ayudar?


Hi when you have   adjetives  whit  two sylables  you have to add er = more 
examples :

cheap -cheap*er * *mas barato*
strong-strong*er * *mas fuerte *

When you want to say " *  el mas " you have to write  "  est " endings.*
*examples *

*great-greatest - el mas grandioso*
*strongest- el mas fuerte*

In adjetives whit three sylables or more you must  use  *" more ".*
Your car is *more* expensive.
*She is more beautiful .....*
*Regards.*


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## argentina84

Those are the "rules" for English comparative and superlative adjectives...but...so..What happens with "clear"? According to the rule,the correct form should be "clear*er*"


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## Dawei

I don't think it's ever _incorrect _to use the *more + adj.* form instead of *adj +er*, except maybe in the case of the irregulars...it just sounds unnatural a lot of the time.


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## argentina84

Yeah! I agree with you! I would like to be free and use the *more+ adj* construction *more often ,*but if I do so...I will not pass my exams! lol Teachers are still very prescriptive...


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## Salsamore

SEXTO SENTIDO said:


> When you want to say " *el mas " you have to write " est " endings.*
> *examples *
> 
> *great-greatest - el mas grandioso*
> *strongest- el mas fuerte*


 
In formal English grammar, _"el más"_ translates to "more"/"-er" when the object is being compared to only one other item. See this thread.



Dawei said:


> I don't think it's ever _incorrect _to use the *more + adj.* form instead of *adj +er*, except maybe in the case of the irregulars...it just sounds unnatural a lot of the time.



True. A lot of the time, phrasing with "more" is used for emphasis:The pool is clearer now.
The pool is more clear now.​It's foggy today, but it was even foggier yesterday.
It's foggy today, but it was even _more_ foggy yesterday.​This might especially be true for words like "clear" where the "-er" can get slurred.


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## alumnisimo

Sometimes usage wins out over the straight application of grammar rules. For emphasis it is okay to say things like "more clear" but the native speaker must be able to appreciate that your attempting to drive home a point or his or her ears will perk up and label you a speaker of another language. This is most important if you are involved in international espionage. As a rule I would stick to the rules as it is more safe. I mean safer.


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## mother earth

It's foggy today, but it was even _foggier _yesterday. 

The explanation by Sexto Sentido is clear, clearer than mine was!  Actually, I think it is the clearest explanation of all


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## geostan

Some of the threads suggest that it is almost always correct to use either form, but I disagree. This is where context and common practice come in.
For instance, clearer and more clear sound perfectly fine to me, although it is safer to go with clearer. The example of "The pool is more clear." sounds wrong to my ear. And what about "short"? Except for obvious cases, such as "He is more short than fat." Would one ever say "more short"? I wouldn't.

This topic is a tough one. I would go along with the member who suggested following the rules. You'll be much safer that way.

Cheers!


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## SEXTO SENTIDO

Salsamore said:


> In formal English grammar, _"el más"_ translates to "more"/"-er" when the object is being compared to only one other item. See this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. A lot of the time, phrasing with "more" is used for emphasis:The pool is clearer now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Salsamore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In formal English grammar, _"el más"_ translates to "more"/"-er" when the object is being compared to only one other item. See this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. A lot of the time, phrasing with "more" is used for emphasis: The pool is clearer now.​
> The pool is more clear now.​It's foggy today, but it was even foggier yesterday.​
> It's foggy today, but it was even _more_ foggy yesterday.​This might especially be true for words like "clear" where the "-er" can get slurred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pool is more clear now.​It's foggy today, but it was even foggier yesterday.​
> It's foggy today, but it was even _more_ foggy yesterday.​This might especially be true for words like "clear" where the "-er" can get slurred.
Click to expand...

*Thank you very much , a explanation from  natives is very useful.*


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## chugees

_Speak more clear on the phone._

or

_Speak more clearly on the phone._

thanks!!


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## geostan

chugees said:


> _Speak more clear on the phone._
> 
> or
> 
> _Speak more clearly on the phone._
> 
> thanks!!


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## wardo

There is one point involving phonetics that we are overlooking here. The pronunciation of adjectives such as "clear, dear, etc.." ending with the same sound as the suffix "-er" tend to appear with the "more" form for obvious reasons.


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## geostan

wardo said:


> There is one point involving phonetics that we are overlooking here. The pronunciation of adjectives such as "clear, dear, etc.." ending with the same sound as the suffix "-er" tend to appear with the "more" form for obvious reasons.



Nice idea, but I don't think so.


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## Frai Escoba

Hello every body,
This thread is very instructive but still could not answer my question. Would you mind if I add a layer to the discussion. I was in a meeting this morning where a native English speaker said: "it will be a little bit more clearer". And here I am, asking to myself if this is right or not.
Thanks for your lights !


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## mother earth

Hi there!  That is definitely not proper English. It is also not a common error. Any native speaker's ears would have caught that as a glitch.


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## geostan

Not so. This *is *a common error, even by some so-called educated speakers. But it is incorrect.  More clear (perhaps), clearer (better), but not both.


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## Frai Escoba

Thank you so much ! question solved !


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## sebalaugh

obviamente es clearer porque NO TIENE DOS SILABAS!! no se pronuncia cle-ar es clear, todo junto y cuando los adjetivos son cortos se utiliza er, no more... son regals del ingles, no se pueden las dos


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## geostan

sebalaugh said:


> obviamente es clearer porque NO TIENE DOS SILABAS!! no se pronuncia cle-ar es clear, todo junto y cuando los adjetivos son cortos se utiliza er, no more... son regals del ingles, no se pueden las dos



Hay casos en que se dice "more clear."  _That explanation is more clear than not._ No me gusta tanto este ejemplo, pero así se diría.


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## duvija

geostan said:


> Nice idea, but I don't think so.


 

I agree with wardo. We tend to avoid stuff like 'clearer, dearer, etc.'


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## inib

wardo said:


> There is one point involving phonetics that we are overlooking here. The pronunciation of adjectives such as "clear, dear, etc.." ending with the same sound as the suffix "-er" tend to appear with the "more" form for obvious reasons.


I'm not sure I agree either. "clear" ends in_ schwa_, as does the ending _er,_ but I can't see a problem there, as when we add the ending we pronounce the intermediate _r. _
To compare: we (British) don't pronounce the _r_ at the end of_ labour_, but have no problems in pronouncing _labourer_.


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## duvija

It ends in schwa or in rhoticized schwa?  [ɚ]
It's a problem.


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## Milton Sand

Frai Escoba said:


> Hello every body,
> This thread is very instructive but still could not answer my question. Would you mind if I add a layer to the discussion. I was in a meeting this morning where a native English speaker said: "it will be a little bit more clearer". And here I am, asking to myself if this is right or not.
> Thanks for your lights !


Hi,
I still have the same doubt. If I needed to mean more clearness than "clearer" does, it's clear that "more clearer" is wrong. Should I use "even clearer"?
Thanks.


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## inib

duvija said:


> It ends in schwa or in rhoticized schwa? [ɚ]
> It's a problem.


 Sorry Duvija, I only know very basic phonetics and have no idea what a rhoticized schwa is. I'll try to look it up now. I know you're an expert on this, so if you'd like to explain it to me, I'd be very grateful. If you think we're going too far off the original subject, it could be by private message. Only if you have time, of course.


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## duvija

inib said:


> Sorry Duvija, I only know very basic phonetics and have no idea what a rhoticized schwa is. I'll try to look it up now. I know you're an expert on this, so if you'd like to explain it to me, I'd be very grateful. If you think we're going too far off the original subject, it could be by private message. Only if you have time, of course.


 

Great! question for all the readers. Should we open a new link? or just do private messg? (I'd love either of those). If no one answers, will do private.


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## chileno

Salsamore said:


> In formal English grammar, _"el más"_ translates to "more"/"-er" when the object is being compared to only one other item.



Correct. But not as a superlative, right?


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## Thomas Veil

alumnisimo said:


> Sometimes usage wins out over the straight application of grammar rules. For emphasis it is okay to say things like "more clear" but the native speaker must be able to appreciate that your attempting


Do you mean "you're"?



chileno said:


> Correct. But not as a superlative, right?


There's a rule in English that is something is the most out of two things, you're supposed to use -er, but if it's the most of more than two things, it's -est.  So if you have two children, the one who was born first would be your "older" or "elder" child, but if you have three children, the one who was born first would be your "oldest".


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## Thomas Veil

wardo said:


> There is one point involving phonetics that we are overlooking here. The pronunciation of adjectives such as "clear, dear, etc.." ending with the same sound as the suffix "-er" tend to appear with the "more" form for obvious reasons.


"Clear" and "er" are completely different vowels.  "Clear" has a diphthong of long-e and then the schwa, while "er" has a (r-colored?) schwa.  If it's decided that this discussion should be in a different thread, then the moderators should move this post there.


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## chileno

Thomas Veil said:


> There's a rule in English that is something is the most out of two things, you're supposed to use -er, but if it's the most of more than two things, it's -est.  So if you have two children, the one who was born first would be your "older" or "elder" child, but if you have three children, the one who was born first would be your "oldest".



So, if I understand this well let me try a couple of phrases.

My mom had 3 children and I am the oldest.

Your mom had two children and you are the older one. I cannot say you are the oldest.

Or, that woman had two children, and that one is the older one. I cannot use "the oldest"

Correct?


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## Istriano

I've never heard ''make myself clearer'' only ''make myself more clear''.


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## duvija

Thomas Veil said:


> So if you have two children, the one who was born first would be your "older" or "elder" child, but if you have three children, the one who was born first would be your "oldest".


 
Can you swear that nobody, who has only two children, never says 'my oldest' referring to the first?


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## 140278

It reminds me of fun and more fun (not funner).


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## Istriano

140278 said:


> It reminds me of fun and more fun (not funner).



But I've heard  _the funnest thing_, and _my dearest friend _


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## inib

140278 said:


> It reminds me of fun and more fun (not funner).


 But _fun_ is a noun, so you can say _fun, more fun_ and _the most fun_, just as you can say, _money, more money_ and _the most money._
_Funny_ is an adjective, so you say _funny, funnier, the funniest_.
Unless there is an American usage that I'm unaware of, _funner_ and _funnest_ not only don't exist, but they make no sense.


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## Prof. Ivinson

vmtnezgil said:


> Gracias, personalmente me suena mejor lo segundo pero pensaba que era mas correcto lo pimero por tener clear 2 silabas....



Clear tiene una sola sílaba /klir/  en británico suena como si tuviera dos porque alargan el sonido de las terminaciones ...er /a/. clear /klia/.


Clearer. 

Exceptions. Higher-more high. E.g: The Most High. "El Altísimo" bible.


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## mhp

inib said:


> But _fun_ is a noun, ...


Or at least it used to be. But fun used as an adjective is quite common in informal speech (e.g. a fun person); its superlative form is an attention-getter: "The funnest iPod ever" commercial.


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## inib

mhp said:


> Or at least it used to be. But fun used as an adjective is quite common in informal speech (e.g. a fun person); its superlative form is an attention-getter: "The funnest iPod ever" commercial.


 Thanks mhp. I need to up-date my English and/or watch more telly!


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## karluSChka

What about is I want to translate this:

_*"Al hacer esto, la visión es más clara"*_

Should I say:_ "After doing this, the visión is more clear"_ or _"After doing this, the vision is clearer"_

I used the second one, but I'd like to know your opinions. Thanks.


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## Tazzler

"clearer" sounds better.


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## chileno

karluSChka said:


> What about is I want to translate this:
> 
> _*"Al hacer esto, la visión es más clara"*_
> 
> Should I say:_ "After doing this, the visión is more clear"_ or _"After doing this, the vision is clearer"_
> 
> I used the second one, but I'd like to know your opinions. Thanks.




*By* doing this, the vision is clear*er*.


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## lic.danielguerra

Ok, I think the original point here was:

Why are the following adjectives not normally compared with "ER"? (lost, fun, grim, clear, live, red...) 
If you know a long list or link about this group of adjectives, PLEASE comment!
An explanation or rule doesn't seem to exist I think.


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## k-in-sc

Grimmer, clearer, redder -- all normal. Not sure where you got those.


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## lic.danielguerra

Well, some of those one-syllable adjectives can be compared with both ER or MORE. I guess what many students and teachers want to know is WHY?


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## k-in-sc

One-syllable adjectives derived from the French tend to compare using "more," not "-er." But it's not a hard and fast rule.


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## cubaMania

La verdad, como mucho en inglés no tenemos reglas en si.  Lo que tenemos son pautas frequentes pero no exclusivas, diferencias que dependen de la derivación, diferencias que surgen aparentemente al azar, e irregularidades.  Algunos diccionarios nos ayudan un poco cuando existen formas además de "more" y "most".  Por ejemplo dictionary punto com tiene estos para "clear" y para "good":


> *clear*
> 
> [kleer]  Show IPA *adjective, **clear·er, **clear·est,**adverb, **clear·er, **clear·est,*





> *good*
> 
> [g_oo_d]  Show IPA *adjective, **bet·ter, **best*


Pero nada para "beautiful", porque en ese caso se forman con "more" y "most".

Pero en este enclace Oxford describe algunas de las pautas más usuales, que quizás te ayuden un poco:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/comparative-and-superlative-adjectives-american



> Adjectives with two syllables vary. Some add _-er/est_ or _-r/-st_:
> ...
> Some use the words ‘more’ for the comparative and ‘most’ for the superlative:
> ...
> Many, such as _clever_, can do either:
> ...
> Some common adjectives have irregular comparative and superlative forms *that you just have to learn
> *...


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## RicardoElAbogado

duvija said:


> Can you swear that nobody, who has only two children, never says 'my oldest' referring to the first?



I can, but then you would have to arrest me for perjury!  This is a common mistake that probably occurs more often than the correct usage. But the rule is that with two children, one is younger and the other is older. So that is what learners should emulate.


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## RicardoElAbogado

As to more clear or clearer, it often is a matter of style, something that can't be reduced to rules. It's like adjective placement in Spanish. When the adjective can be placed before or after, it is often a matter of style, and the books say that you have to learn that by listening carefully to native speakers and get a feel for it.


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## lic.danielguerra

I found a good link guys:

http://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/gra...tive_steig.htm

Special adjectivesSome adjectives have two possible forms of comparison (-er/est and more/most).


positivecomparativesuperlativeclevercleverer / more clevercleverest / most clevercommoncommoner / more commoncommonest / most commonlikelylikelier / more likelylikeliest / most likelypleasantpleasanter / more pleasantpleasantest / most pleasantpolitepoliter / more politepolitest / most politequietquieter / more quietquietest / most quietsimplesimpler / more simplesimplest / most simplestupidstupider / more stupidstupidest / most stupidsubtlesubtler / more subtlesubtlest / most subtlesuresurer / more suresurest / most sure



PD: also the ones we were discussing: clear, fun...etc
=)


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## Gamen

I personally prefer to say:
More common than commoner
More simple than simpler
More clear than clearer
More fun than funner
More quiet than quieter
More stupid than stupider

The first forms sound much better to my ears.

Do natives agree with this?


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## obz

Not personally no. I think most natives opt for the comparatives and superlatives when they are available.
Not 100% of the time, but an impressive majority of the time, I would estimate.


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## Gamen

But do you really use stupider, commoner , subtler, surer, quieter or simpler?


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## obz

Probably not 'commoner', as it is also a derogatory term (tipo pueblerino o campesino).
And without a doubt I don't use 'funner', as I find it to be an abberation (funnier however, is great, go figure)
As for the rest? I really use them, really. Not 100% of the time, but I really do use them.


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## cubaMania

Gamen said:


> ...
> Do natives agree with this?


Nope.

commoner 
simpler 
clearer 
funner 
quieter 
stupider 
(In each case the version with "more" is also fine.)


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## picopegajoso

Hello, everyone:

Interesting discussion!

The "rules" probably appear a bit capricious. But other than the handful of two-syllable adjectives whose comparatives and superlatives are formed with either *more/most *or *-er/-est*, the formation of comparatives and superlatives _does_ follow a set of hard and fast rules. *This page* does a good job of setting out and explaining those rules.

As previous posts have noted, part of the difficulty comes from the use of certain words (_clear_, for instance) as either adjectives or adverbs. Those words retain the *-er/-est *suffix as comparative or superlative adverbs. So, for example, you could say, "Jane speaks _*clearer *_since she started seeing a speach therapist." But it's much more common to say "Jane speaks *more clearly*_..." _


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## k-in-sc

Gamen said:


> But do you really use stupider, commoner , subtler, surer, quieter or simpler?


Why would you ever say "more quiet" or "more simple"?


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## Gamen

I would say about all "more clear" and "more simple" rather than "clearer" and "simpler" because the first ones sounds better to me, but I'm not a native.


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## k-in-sc

Listen to us then


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## picopegajoso

Gamen said:


> "more clear" "more simple" "clearer"  "simpler"



Only "more clear" is incorrect (according to the rules of prescriptive grammar). 

The word "simple" is among the handful of adjectives that will accept either *-er/-est *or *more/most*.


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## lic.danielguerra

Picopegajoso, your link and this one are the only sites I have found that explain the most on this exeption to the rule.  
http://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/grammar/adjektive_steig.htm
l am still gathering more of these adjectives so I can make a poster and hang it on the wall where I work and share it everywhere. I'm still shocked that most of these adjectives are everyday use and ESL books never give you at least a short list, neither include them in the exeption to the rule category: good, bad, etc. I'm not putting too much attention to the explanation but a list of such adjectives is what we need so others can be aware.


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## aprendiendo argento

Clearer water.
Make it more clear.


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## k-in-sc

Make it *clearer*


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## picopegajoso

Hello, lic.danielguerra:

Yes, the topic can be confusing - even for us native English speakers.


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## kalamazoo

I think "more clear" is fine, but for some reason, I dislike "more cheap" and don't think I would say this.  I have no idea why.  As to the post by sexto sentido, aren't cheap and clear one syllable adjectives, not two syllables?  I would say "more honest" not "honester",  but would say "foggier" in preference to "more foggy,"  Again I have no idea why.


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## Gamen

kalamazoo. I think it has to be with a question of "how the words sound".
It sounds better "more clear" or "more simple" or "more honest" than "clearer", "simpler" or "honester".
On the other hand, it souns better to say "cheaper" or "hotter" than saying "more" plus the corresponding adjective.
Anyway, it is not correct to say "more cheap", I think, according to what the grammar rules prescribe in English.


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## k-in-sc

Gamen said:


> kalamazoo. I think it has to be *do* with a question of "how the words sound".
> It sounds better* to say* "more clear" or "more simple" or "more honest" than "clearer", "simpler" or "honester".


But to natives "clearer" and "simpler" sound better. So maybe you shouldn't go by what sounds better to you.


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## aztlaniano

RicardoElAbogado said:


> When referring to two people, not things, one is *elder *​(not "older"), the other is younger.
> When referring to three or more people, one is *the eldest*, one is the youngest.
> 
> *elder*​*adjective*
> 
> 
> 
> *(of one or more out of a group of associated people) of a greater age: my elder daughter the elder of the two sons
> http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/elder?q=elder*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When referring to two nonliving things, one is older, the other is newer or more recent*. *Living things other than humans are older and younger.


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