# All Slavic languages: Adverbials of Place - when to use "na" and when "u, v" (prepositions)



## Selyd

In Ukrainian:
*в* гори, *на* острів, *на* море.
*в* Крим, *на/в* Карпати,  *на* Кавказ,  *на* Сейшели, *на* Філіпіни,  *на* Канари, *в/**у* Нову Каледонію, *на* Хокайдo, *на* Kіпр, *на* Kубу, *в* Ісландію, *у* Флориду, *в/у* Чехію, *в/у* Болгарію, *в* Альпи.
*до* Криму, *до *Чехії, *до* Болгарії тощо.


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## VelikiMag

Selyd, I read that in Russian it is more correct to say _на Украине _than _в Украине. _Do you happen to know why? And what is the situation in Ukrainian language?


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## sokol

Moderator note: split from this thread, to allow for discussion of the same problem in other/all Slavic languages.


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## TriglavNationalPark

In Slovenian:

Inhabited places in Slovenia itself can take either *v* or *na*:

*v* Ljubljani
*v* Mariboru
*na* Ptuju
*na* Bledu

Inhabited places outside of Slovenia almost always take *v*:

*v* Beogradu
*v* Moskvi
*v* Pragi
*v* Listvjanki

There is at least one exception, however:

*na* Dunaju (Dunaj = Vienna)

Hills and mountains almost invariably take *na*:

*na* Triglavu
*na* Mont Blancu
*na* Pohorju

Mountain ranges, however, take *v*:

*v* Julijskih Alpah
*v* Andih

Islands and peninsulas usually take *na*:

*na* Braču
*na* Jamajki
*na* Pelješcu
*na* Kamčatki
*na* Korziki

However, there are some exceptions:

*v* Istri
(Istria was not traditionally perceived as a peninusla.)

Countries that end in _-ija_ -- or any ending *except* _-ska/-ška_ -- usually take *v*:

*v* Italiji
*v* Srbiji
*v* ZDA
*v* Južni Afriki
*v* Ukrajini

However, countries that end in (the originally adjectival) _-ska/-ška_ take *na *instead:

*na* Madžarskem
*na* Hrvaškem
*na* Slovaškem
*na* Danskem
*na* Kitajskem

For Slovenia, both the more common *v Sloveniji* and the more poetic *na Slovenskem *can be used.

Countries that are also islands or archipelagos often take *na*, regardless of their endings, but there are some exceptions:

*na* Islandiji
*na* Novi Zelandiji
*na* Filipinih

*v* Veliki Britaniji
*v* Indoneziji


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## vianie

TriglavNationalPark said:


> For Slovenia, both the more common *v Sloveniji* and the more poetic *na Slovenskem *can be used.



For Slovakia, the form with *na* is *na Slovensku* (in Slovakia) and the form with *v* is *v Slovenskej republike* (in the Slovak Republic).
However no Slovak pronounce *v* in this frontal position as *u*.
*u* is another preposition - *u susedov* (at the neighbours)


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## tyhryk

Selyd said:


> In Ukrainian*:*
> на*/в* Карпати


In Ukrainian *always *is *В КАРПАТИ *or *В КАРПАТАХ  *and *never* "на".


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## tyhryk

VelikiMag said:


> to say _на Украине _than _в Украине._


It's necessary to say *в Україні* and never "на". In Ukrainian, of course.


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## Orlin

Bulgarian: there are clear rules for most categories of toponyms:
1. Inhabited places always take *в*.
2. Mountains and hills take *на* (на Витоша, на Хисарлъка) while mountain ranges *в *(в Стара Планина, в Алпите).
3. Always *в *with countries and states. The only exceptions are country names that are also names of island groups containing the word "острови" (на Сейшелските острови, на Вирджинските острови etc.).
4. Island groups always take *на *except country names that don't include "острови" (в Япония, в Индонезия). So do islands and peninsulas that *are not separate countries/states.* (I remembered that we say в Гренландия - probably either because it's autonomous inside the Danish state or because it's too large, I don't know for sure. I suppose that в is also possible for other larger islands even if they're not independent, but I'm not sure though.)


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## Sobakus

VelikiMag said:


> Selyd, I read that in Russian it is more correct to say _на Украине _than _в Украине. _Do you happen to know why? And what is the situation in Ukrainian language?



It's probably because украина comes form окраина, outskirts(althoug some seem to argue). While the Ukrainians started using в to indicate it's a country, we still keep using на.


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## Deem-A

> And what is the situation in Ukrainian language?



We're now speaking about the Russian language spoken in Russia,and the Russian spoken in Ukraine(which is 100% the same language),this на/в Украине  being the only ''difference''. Over the last 10 years,the use with в became more and more popular in Ukraine,practically all the Russian-language newspapers use в Украине.I believe people in Ukraine find something mocking in this preposition,linked to окраина. However,I've also heard many Russians (Russian citizens) using в Украине. I presonally vote for the use of на Украине,because this is correct according to to the norms of Russian literal language,but it's my own option.


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## Istriano

_*Na*_ is used with islands: na Madagaskaru, na Havajima, na Maldivima, na Hvaru, na Fuerteventuri; but also with Thailand which is not an island:  na Tajlandu
but a peninsula (some peninsulas take U:  U Istri, but NA is used normally, especially with the word poluotok (peninsula): Na istarskom poluotoku, na pirenejskom poluotoku...)

_*U*_ is used with other places, cities (_u Lisabonu_), countries (_u Italiji_), peninsulas (u Istri

It's _ u Australiji,_  but _na Novom Zelandu._
Here Australia is seen as a continent/country rather than an island, and Novi Zeland is an arquipelago rather than a country. 

With island countries sometimes U is used when a country is not that famous: U Samoi (stress on a country) vs Na Samoi (stress on it being an arquipelago).


With mountains, when you specify a peak it's _na_:  _Na MontBlancu;_
when there's a chain it depends:  _u Alpama_ (in the Alps), but _na Himalajama_.


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## sokol

Moderator note: This thread is about adverbials of place. Discussion about propositions in idioms has been split off to a new thread.


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## ilocas2

Czech

All non-insular *countries* except Slovakia and Ukraine take V

v Česku, v České republice, v Rumunsku, na Slovensku, na Ukrajině

*regions* except Moravia take also V

na Moravě, v Čechách, ve Slezsku, ve Westfálsku, v Normandii, v Katalánsku, v Toskánsku, v Dalmácii

small regions in Czech republic or in Slovakia take also NA

na Chodsku, na Hané, na Slovácku, na Valašsku, na Oravě, na Spiši

na Chrudimsku (= in surrounding of Chrudim), na Prostějovsku (= in surrounding of Prostějov) etc.

*islands, archipelagos* and *peninsulas* take NA, when it's perceived rather as country, then it takes V

v Austrálii, v Grónsku, v Irsku, ve Velké Británii, v Indonésii, v Japonsku, ve Skandinávii, v Bretani

na Seychellách, na Maledivách, na Madagaskaru, na Islandu, na Filipínách, na Novém Zélandu, na Fidži, na Kubě

na Balkáně, na Floridě, na Yucatánu, na Kamčatce, na Krymu

sometimes there are both possibilities

v/na Samoi

*towns* take V

v Liberci, v Berlíně, v Madridu, ve Florencii, v Budapešti

*villages* take V, some villages take NA (usually those placed in higher altitudes, the correct preposition is known only to people living in that region)

*parts of town* take V or NA (the same rule, it's yet more irregular, it's known to people living in that town)

*mountains* take NA

na Sněžce, na Klínovci, na Ještědu, na Matterhornu

*mountain ranges* take V

v Alpách, v Himalájích, v Pyrenejích, v Krkonoších, v Jeseníkách, v Beskydech

but

na Kavkaze (it's perceived rather as region), na Šumavě, na Vysočině


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## Tjahzi

Istriano said:


> _*Na*_ is used with islands: na Madagaskaru, na Havajima, na Maldivima, na Hvaru, na Fuerteventuri; but also with Thailand which is not an island:  na Tajlandu
> but a peninsula (some peninsulas take U:  U Istri, but NA is used normally, especially with the word poluotok (peninsula): Na istarskom poluotoku, na pirenejskom poluotoku...)
> 
> _*U*_ is used with other places, cities (_u Lisabonu_), countries (_u Italiji_), peninsulas (u Istri
> 
> It's _ u Australiji,_  but _na Novom Zelandu._
> Here Australia is seen as a continent/country rather than an island, and Novi Zeland is an arquipelago rather than a country.
> 
> With island countries sometimes U is used when a country is not that famous: U Samoi (stress on a country) vs Na Samoi (stress on it being an arquipelago).
> 
> 
> With mountains, when you specify a peak it's _na_:  _Na MontBlancu;_
> when there's a chain it depends:  _u Alpama_ (in the Alps), but _na Himalajama_.



Ehm, just to be clear, the above goes for BCS, right?


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## Orlin

Tjahzi said:


> Ehm, just to be clear, the above goes for BCS, right?


Yes!


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## Sibirjack

Deem-A said:


> Over the last 10 years,the use with в became more and more popular in Ukraine,practically all the Russian-language newspapers use в Украине.



I'm from Siberia and we still use "na Ukraine/Ukrainu" in speech and newspapers and "s Ukrainy" in speech.


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## Selyd

When speech goes about *territory* - then *on (на).*
When speech goes about *state* - then *in (в).*


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## Leox10

Sibirjack said:


> I'm from Siberia and we still use "na Ukraine/Ukrainu" in speech and newspapers and "s Ukrainy" in speech.



And?


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## Sibirjack

Leox10 said:


> And?


 
It's unnatural to say "в". Got it?


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## Leox10

Sibirjack said:


> It's unnatural to say "в". Got it?



Correct sentence:It's unnatural in Siberia  to say "в".


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## Maroseika

tyhryk said:


> it's necessary to say *в Україні* and never "на". In ukrainian, of course.



Maybe it is correct in the PC Ukrainian, but not in the literary Ukrainian:
Як умру, то поховайте
Мене на могилі
Серед степу широкого
На Вкраїні милій...


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## Selyd

Maroseika said:


> Maybe it is correct in the PC Ukrainian, but not in the literary Ukrainian:
> Як умру, то поховайте
> Мене на могилі
> Серед степу широкого
> На Вкраїні милій...


In the literary Ukrainian "На Вкраїні милій..." the speech goes about territory. Similarly "Повій вітре на Вкраїну ...". When the speech goes about the state, we speak " *In Ukraine* ". The visitors to us go *in* the country.
"Мене *на* могилі..." The Died bury in a tomb. Tomb is made on the borrow.
About ours it is better to ask us.


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## Maroseika

Selyd said:


> In the literary Ukrainian "На Вкраїні милій..." the speech goes about territory. Similarly "Повій вітре на Вкраїну ...". When the speech goes about the state, we speak " *In Ukraine* ". The visitors to us go *in* the country.
> "Мене *на* могилі..." The Died bury in a tomb. Tomb is made on the borrow.
> About ours it is better to ask us.



Yes, I know how you speak. But this is more about politics than about grammar. I strongly doubt there is a rule in Ukrainian to use *на* when meaning a territory and *в* for the states.
In this regard there is no difference between Russian and Ukrainian, we use spatial prepositions in such cases similarly. And when we use, for example, the word Россия as a territory we use the same preposition *в* as when mean a state. 
Just compare:
*Как упоительны в России вечера...
Які чудові на Вкраїні вечори...*
I think you agree that in both cases they don't mean "states". 

The reason of all that is quite historical, it is the same why in English they say 'the Hague' and 'the Ukraine'. I cannot understand why some Ukrainians prefer crippling their own language instead of enjoing their unique state name. Being the only (or among very little number) country having such unusual name is just cool!


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