# Godverdomme (swearing/vloeken)



## Kajeetah

*I took the liberty of expanding the scope of this topic. I think it can come in handy to compare "godverdomme" with some related words.*
*Frank, moderator*



Bonjour! 
J'aimerais avoir un éclaircissement sur le registre de "godverdomme"
Est-ce une expression passe partout qui peut aller de "nom de Dieu" à "putain de bordel de merde", ou est-ce uniquement une expression très grossière?
Merci d'avance

Hi!
I'd like to know more about the standard of "godverdomme". Is it an expression that covers a range from "Jesus Christ!" to "fucking hell" or is it only a very vulgar expression?
Thanks in advance


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## Suehil

In the Netherlands, some people will always find it offensive while for others it will depend on the tone of voice, how it is pronounced, the situation and the company. 

Not much help, I'm afraid


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## Anshka

C'est une expression relativement grossière. Sur une échelle de grossièretés de 0 à 10, avec Nom de dieu à 1 et Putain de bordel de merde à 8, je dirais que Godverdomme est à 6 ou 7, voire 10 suivant que vous vous adressiez à un public très conservateur.

En moins grossier, on peut dire "Hemel", Ciel en français, pour exprimer une émotion (surprise, frayeur...).


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## Kajeetah

Thank you! 
Merci!


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## Joannes

En Belgique aussi ça dépend énormément de l'intonation et du contexte. Je pense qu'_en général_ *godverdomme* comme juron serait plus grossier que *nom de Dieu* (ce qui se dit aussi en Flandre, en forme de *((non)de)dju* ). En revanche, *(ja,)* *godverdomme* parfois (et particulièrement dans l'ouest) se dit également au lieu de *amai*, exprimant surprise, et peu de gens le considèrent grossier. Samedi dernier, j'étais à Ostende où Arno incitait le public à chanter avec les mots *nog e ké godverdomme!*, peut-être pas très conformiste, mais personne qui ne l'a mal pris.


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## Stedewi

Anshka said:


> En moins grossier, on peut dire "Hemel", Ciel en français, pour exprimer une émotion (surprise, frayeur...).



Oui, oui... En moins grossier, c'est clair. Tout autre chose je dirais. C'est plutot quelquechose pour des soustitres.


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## Lopes

Joannes said:


> *nom de Dieu* (ce qui se dit aussi en Flandre, en forme de *((non)de)dju* ).



Ha, zo leer je nog eens wat. Wat betekent *miljaardedzju* dan?


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## JimboFr

Godverdorie?


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## Joannes

Lopes said:


> Ha, zo leer je nog eens wat. Wat betekent *miljaardedzju* dan?


'Een miljard goden' (*milliard de dieux*). Er is ook *milledju* (duizend), maar dat is minder frequent.

_Synchroon_, d.i. in de hedendaagse Vlaamse talenknobbels, wordt dit volgens mij echter geanalyseerd als een opeenstapeling van *miljaar* en *dedju*. Je kan die opeenstapelingen heel lang maken: als je jezelf pijnlijk bezeerd hebt (en dus niemand anders de schuld kan geven en/of wraak nemen ) is het enige wat je kan doen *godvermiljaardenondedju!!!* brullen. 



JimboFr said:


> Godverdorie?


Kan wel denk ik, al geloof ik dat *potverdorie* of kortweg *verdorie* frequenter is. *Verdorie* is zeker milder dan *verdomme*; *potverdorie* is een verhullende vloek (*pot* om niet *God* te zeggen) en kan daardoor zelfs wat te flauw klinken in bepaalde contexten (als je dan toch vloekt, doe het dan goed ). Het is ook anders dan *chips* (voor *shit*) en *godverrr..biedt het vloeken* waar je je nog min of meer spontaan naartoe kan werken als je je vloek al had ingezet. Maar ik ken mensen die effectief *potverdorie* zeggen dus.. (in tegenstelling tot *hemel!*, zoals Stedewi zei)


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## Joannes

Stoggler said:


> Does anyone else find it frustrating when a thread is started in one language but others write in another, especially when it's a language that I do not know too well.
> 
> I am learning Dutch and was interested in this thread but it's difficult to know what's going on and to learn if the posts are written in a language different to the OP (both of those languages I can read). My Dutch isn't good enough to follow what's been said here and I find it so frustrating.


 
I think this post belongs in the Comments & Suggestions forum , but I do agree that this can be a nuisance. It's sometimes hard though to satisfy everyone without having to write in six different languages. I think English (being an international lingua franca) and the language of the forum (since that's the one visiting learners are trying to learn anyway) are fine choices. Personally, I wouldn't mind anyone asking me for a translation of what I wrote in the forums (we get translation requests all the time here, you know ), and kindly asking if someone could translate is exactly what I would do when someone had written something in a discussion that I didn't quite understand while I would like to know about it. It would surprise me if never did actually, and it would surprise me if nobody did translate it for me.

So anyway, a reconstruction:



Joannes said:


> Lopes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, interesting. What does *miljaardedzju* mean then?
> 
> 
> 
> 'A billion gods' (*milliard de dieux*). There's also *milledju* (thousand), but that's less common.
> 
> _Synchronically_, i.e. in the minds of contemporary Flemish speakers, I think this is analyzed as a catenation of *miljaar* and *dedju*. You can create long chains like that: if you've badly hurt yourself (and you can't put the blame on anyone else and/or take revenge), the only thing you can do is cry out loud *godvermiljaardenondedju!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> JimboFr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Godverdorie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Possible I think, although in my opinion *potverdorie* or short *verdorie* would be more common. *Verdorie* is definitely milder than *verdomme*; *potverdorie* is a concealed curse (*pot* not to say *God*) and because of that there are contexts in which it might sound even too weak (if you have to swear, you might as well do so properly). It's also different from *chips* 'crisps' (instead of *shit*)* and *godverrr..biedt het vloeken* where you could divert yourself to if you had already begun swearing. But I do know people who actually say *potverdorie* so.. (Like Stedewi, I don't know people who actually say *hemel!* though)
Click to expand...

 
* I've only come to realize now that this one will probably only be used in Flanders, and even there only by people that pronounce *chips* 'crisps' as /ships/. (It's not that we can't pronounce the <ch> part -- a computer chip is pronounced /(t)chip/ in every dialect.)

*Edit* to add three notes:
- I started writing my answer before Frank deleted Stoggler's original post, sorry about that. Thanks, Frank, for keeping mine, I think it is useless to point out that the translated part will be useful to some people. (And Stoggler, I guess you should probably use more foul words not to have your posts deleted here, I'm afraid )
- To all learners of Dutch, or any language (at least to those who read English, those who don't may request a translation ): Although it is of course fun to learn about swearwords in other languages, in my view it is better to avoid cursing in a language you are learning. For native speakers swearwords can be ok in contexts where you wouldn't expect them, but I guess this often has to do with a certain --some people would probably say overly-- spontaneous use of language that many second language learners (still) lack. And I guess (faking) this spontaneity level of language is probably the reason for some people to want to know about curses in the first place (I know it has been for me) --same with slang expressions-- but it doesn't fit for people who haven't reached a certain level of proficiency yet. I guess, because some speakers haven't reached that kind of proficiency, them saying swearwords can come across as ruder than they intended it to be, or ruder than if a native should have fluently, spontaneously said the same thing in a similar context. Well, maybe you recognize this for your own language (and its learners) and you know what I mean, never mind if you don't. 
- You're most welcome, Stoggler -- it's Joannes though (which means I'm a guy)


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## Stoggler

Thanks Joanna for going to all the trouble of translating that post.


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## Dux

Persoonlijk gebruik ik "g*dverd*mme" -dat is de schrijfwijze die je wel tegenkomt als iemand het woord eigenlijk te grof vind om uit te schrijven- helemaal nooit. Nimmer.
Ik keur het gebruik ervan sterk af en vind het onnodig het te gebruiken.

Niettemin komt het ook in mijn directe omgeving wel eens voor, maar dan bij iets werkelijk ernstigs, zoals wanneer je je hand openhaalt met een heggenschaar.

Er bestaan veel vriendelijkere alternatieven: potdorie, potverdomme, gadverdamme, verdorie; of de verhullende strategie: godver..


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## JimboFr

In his book "Dubbel Dutch", Kevin Cook suggests (among others) - verdikkeme, potverdikkie, and potverdriedubbeltjes!


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## Dux

JimboFr said:


> In his book "Dubbel Dutch", Kevin Cook suggests (among others) - verdikkeme, potverdikkie, and potverdriedubbeltjes!


They are alternatives.. but I would never use them, if I were you. Looking back at my own post, I would not say 'potdorie' either. They're all a bit archaic and/or "soft" and you won't hear one young person say them these days. If I would, I'd use them in a joking manner.


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## Jasmijn

That's true. If you use words like verdikkeme, potverdriedubbeltjes, they will laugh. Because those words are old-fashioned.

By the way, Dutch (young) people often use diseases to curse. Such like cancer etc.


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## MaxJ

Potverdrie*jan*dubbeltjes wordt ook wel eens gebruikt.


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## callahan

It depends. In dialectal speech (i.e. informal situations in Flanders), it is common to hear people swearing. Whether or not someone is offended will usually vary from individual to individual. I know of people who say "Gvd" all the time. It can be very annoying, and I think swearing is generally inappropriate, but it is generally deemed to be socially unacceptable. As others have said, the intonation of the person as well as the age and how much someone actually uses this curse word may determine whether or not it comes across as vulgar and offensive. In standard language, however, it always sounds gross. Imagine a person in a formal business meeting, a news anchor or a politician saying "p-tain de bordel!"... In other words: don't use it! And if you have to swear, use the euphemistic "verdorie" or "verdorie toch!" (_zut alors_) instead. Hope this answers your question(s).


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## Frank06

callahan said:


> It depends. In dialectal speech (i.e. informal situations in Flanders)


You're kidding, are you?



> it is common to hear people swearing. Whether or not someone is offended will usually vary from individual to individual. I know of people who say "Gvd" all the time. It can be very annoying, and I think swearing is generally inappropriate, but it is generally deemed to be socially unacceptable. As others have said, the intonation of the person as well as the age and how much someone actually uses this curse word may determine whether or not it comes across as vulgar and offensive. In standard language, however, it always sounds gross. Imagine a person in a formal business meeting, a news anchor or a politician saying "p-tain de bordel!"... In other words: don't use it! And if you have to swear, use the euphemistic "verdorie" or "verdorie toch!" (_zut alors_) instead. Hope this answers your question(s).


*I'm sorry, but this is not the place to start moralising about cursing. *
*People curse. Simple as that.*
*We discuss the cursing here, not the morals. **Whether we like it or not, words like godverdomme belong to the Dutch lexicon.*

*Frank*
*Moderator*


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## callahan

Frank06 said:


> You're kidding, are you?
> 
> 
> *I'm sorry, but this is not the place to start moralising about cursing. *
> *People curse. Simple as that.*
> *We discuss the cursing here, not the morals. **Whether we like it or not, words like godverdomme belong to the Dutch lexicon.*
> 
> *Frank*
> *Moderator*



Oh, please. I am merely trying to answer the question regarding the register of "gvd" from my own point of view, as a native Fleming. That's all. People murder, people steal, people do a lot of things - does that mean it's appropriate? Of course not. That's why I noted that "gvd" is best avoided altogether.


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## Svenshinhan

I use Godverdomme quite a lot, although only in situations where I know it won't be likely to offend anyone. I wouldn't use it in public places like restaurants, train stations, university classrooms etc.

It's just an all-round great word to use when you're frustrated. It has a kind of aggressive sound to it (unless spoken with a soft 'g', then it just sounds silly). That's also why I do not use euphemisms like "verdorie" and such. It just sounds dumb. I tend to use it when things go wrong, or when I accidentally hurt myself, or when I receive bad news.

When I'm alone, with friends, or with family I use it freely (as do they, I might add). I refrain from using it when I'm around people I don't know. I've heard it all over the country, and even some religious people say it. All in all, I'd say that how the word is perceived depends mostly on HOW and WHEN it's used. It can even be used in a positive sense, e.g. "Godverdomme, wat een goeie film!" - _Goddamn, what a good movie!_

No matter how it's used, though, many people will find it offensive even if used in a "good" way. Generally speaking, most people I know (from family to friends to colleagues to fellow students) use it. Some use it often, some only rarely.


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## Flying High

Hi everybody: to give you an idea about current Dutch, or rather ...  "Double Dutch" someone once gave me an  amusing little book, Turbo Taal by Jan Kuitenbrouwer. You might want to look for it.


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