# אצל



## airelibre

My dictionary gives a very vague definition for אצל. I keep hearing אצלנו but can't gather enough from the context to understand its meaning. Can somebody give me some examples of its usage?

תודה רבה


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## Sapein

אצל se usa muchas veces como "en" en Español, aunque su uso es mucho más específico. El en puede usarse como ב pero en este caso sería más como inside, o dentro.

Por ejemplo:
יוני אצל הרופא
Yoni está en el Doctor.

דברים כאלה לא קורים אצלנו.
Estas cosas no pasan en nuestra (comunidad/casa/país depende el contexto de la conversación)

אני באוטובוס
Estoy en el bus (dentro del bus)


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## David S

airelibre said:


> My dictionary gives a very vague definition for אצל. I keep hearing אצלנו but can't gather enough from the context to understand its meaning. Can somebody give me some examples of its usage?
> 
> תודה רבה



I think of it as the translation of the French word "chez", which means "at somebody's place" or "in somebody's circles".


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## Sapein

I don't speak French but sounds a similar meaning


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## arielipi

It's the translation for at and in, which gives many hebrew-first-language when learning english a hard time knowing when to say at and when to say in.


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## OsehAlyah

The words in bold are all אצל examples
airelibre is *at* the restaurant
airelibre is *at* her father's office
My Hebrew book is *with* airelibre (or *at* airelibre's)

I think in Russian it would translate as - y


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## origumi

In addition to the good answers above (Spanish _en_, French _chez_, English _at_/_in_, and also maybe English _among_), there's an older meaning _to_. One can walk אצל his friend's house, as in the expression הלך הזרזיר *אצל *העורב.

In the Bible also _nearby_, as in וְהָאַרְיֵה עֹמֵד *אֵצֶל* הַנְּבֵלָה or וְהִשְׁלִיךְ אֹתָהּ *אֵצֶל* הַמִּזְבֵּחַ.


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## airelibre

Gracias and thank you for your help. 

So, אני אצל השולחן is more correct than אני בשולחן?
Still slightly confused whether to use ב עם or אצל in some cases.


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## mediterraneo24

airelibre said:


> So, אני אצל השולחן is more correct than אני בשולחן?



No - you could say however אני אצל דויד, יושב בשולחן
You are אצל an entity, not an object.

 אצל is closer to at in english, so let me try to explain it with osehalyah's examples:

airelibre is *at* the restaurant - you can't say in hebrew איירה ליברה אצל המסעדה
airelibre is *at* her father's office -you can't say אצל המשרד של אבא שלה, but you could say היא אצל אבא שלה במשרד
My Hebrew book is *with* airelibre (or *at* airelibre's) -  you could say הספר אצל איירה ליברה


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## arbelyoni

> So, אני אצל השולחן is more correct than אני בשולחן?


אני אצל השולחן is correct, but archaic (read here).
We prefer אני ליד השולחן (common), or אני יושב לשולחן (higher register).
אני בשולחן is lower.


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## airelibre

Ok, I think I've got it now. Thank you all.


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## David S

There's also a figurative meaning in אצל and French "chez" that means "inside the mind or character of a person" that's difficult to translate into English: "Chez moi tout va bien" / אצלי הכל בסדר: Everything's going well with me.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

OsehAlyah said:


> The words in bold are all אצל examples
> airelibre is *at* the restaurant
> airelibre is *at* her father's office
> My Hebrew book is *with* airelibre (or *at* airelibre's)
> 
> *I think in Russian it would translate as - y*



You could say so, yes, but "у" as in "встретимся у меня дома" (ניפגש אצלי בבית) and not in "встретимя у моего дома" (ניפגש *ליד* הבית שלי).


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## airelibre

Just to clarify a few more things:
1. ?של מי הספר - Who does the book belong to?
(הספר שלי)
2. ?אצל מי הספר - Who has the book? (temporary)
(הספר אצל עידן) (the book is with Idan)
and this is different to:
הספר בביתו של עידן - the book is in Idan's house 

תודה


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## Sapein

Yes, is right what you wrote.
הספר אצל עידן is more like Idan has the book right now, doesn't matter where is Idan.


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## airelibre

Sapein said:


> Yes, is right what you wrote.
> הספר אצל עידן is more like Idan has the book right now, doesn't matter where is Idan.



Vale, gracias por la clarificación.


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## OsehAlyah

Carrot Ironfoundersson said:


> You could say so, yes, but "у" as in "встретимся у меня дома" (ניפגש אצלי בבית) and not in "встретимя у моего дома" (ניפגש *ליד* הבית שלי).


Oh Wow. Dang it. I definitely did not know that.  I was almost certain that it matched 100% with the Russian "y". Sigh. arbelyoni's link even seems to hint at something of the same nature. Oh well, it's probably not the case for Modern Hebrew.
airelibre you can safely ignore my examples then, if you haven't already.

Great thread, huge thanks to everyone who posted.


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