# Egyptian Arabic varieties



## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

Hi... I am a coptic egyptian who lived my entire life in the US (totally americanized) and never watched Arabic TV, so my knowledge on arabic is completely based on what I heard my parents (from Menofiyya) and brothers say.  I recently met some egyptians (from cairo) in my area, and they had quite alot of negative things to say about my arabic.  They said the way I spoke wasnt egyptian...
Example...
"I cant go before I take my exam"- Ma bnegdersh nerou7 gabli ma na5od emte7ani...
I was corrected to say "ma ba2dersh arou7 2abl ma aa5od emte7ni, and was told that i speak like an ignorant person

Is there a different dialect outside of cairo where they talk like me?


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## cherine

Hi and welcome to the forum 

I'll answer your last question first:


i_guess_i_am_a_genius said:


> Is there a different dialect outside of cairo where they talk like me?


Egypt has many dialects: urban and rural ones. And even among urban and rural dialects, there are differences: for example, the dialect or accent of a peasant from the North is different from another peasant from the South.
A middle-class educated person from Alexandria speaks a dialect that's different from an equally educated middle-class person who lives in Cairo or Mansoura or Port Said...
The good thing is: the differences in Egyptian dialects are, generally, not too big. Although I have a hard times understanding rural people who speak too fast and, sometimes, "eat the letters" as we say. 



> "I cant go before I take my exam"- Ma bnegdersh nerou7 gabli ma na5od emte7ani...
> I was corrected to say "ma ba2dersh arou7 2abl ma aa5od emte7ni, and was told that i speak like an ignorant person


I wouldn't say ignorant, this has nothing to do with education. The choice of vocabulary can mark this difference.
What makes your words sound as a non-urban person is your pronouncing the ق (qaf) as a "g". Urban people pronounce it as a hamza/alef.
Using the "n" at the begining of verbs is used by old Alexandrians (i.e. descendants of families that lived in Alexandria for long times). It's similar to Moroccan Arabic. Most Egyptians use the (n) at the begining of verbs only with plural, not with singular.


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## WadiH

I don't know much about Egyptian dialects, but if you're speech is based on what you learned from your parents then, assuming they are native speakers, then the way you speak is correct for at least some dialect.  It's just that your Egyptian friends are unfamiliar with it.

I do know, as Cherine has said, that the original Alexiandrian dialect uses "n-" for first person singular.


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## MarcB

Hi genius,
Take a look at this post and you will get an idea why your friends reacted to your pronunciation.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=608635
Yes the way you speak is one of the dialects of Egypt and other North African countries.


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## إسكندراني

I like the way you speak, tell your friends that their insult to you is ignorant!
Egypt has a variety of related dialects and I see no reason we should all try to emulate a particular dialect which was chosen by TV writers!
The problem is that in Egypt people would immediately draw conclusions about you if you have a strong rural dialect, as you do for example, even if that dialect has a strong cultural history and is probably actually closer to 'real' Arabic!


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## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

How about the pronunciation of "Jeem"?
Growing up, I was taught to pronounce it both as G or J, and depending on my mood, I use both...
I know in Cairo, they all use Geem, but I had a friend from Fayyoum who pronounced it as Jeem


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## MarcB

Geem is also mostly urban and jeem mostly rural but there is some overlapping.


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## إسكندراني

As a general rule:
Urban&Modern
ج=g, ق=2
---
Rural&Traditional
ج=j, ق=g


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## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

shukraan ktiiran 3ala jwabatkom w ta7iyatkom


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## GDAN

Is there a big difference between the dialects of Cairo and Alexandria that still exists today?  If so, is this unusual since its origin is a city and not a rural area?  I saw pages from an old book that mentioned features close to what "i guess i am a genius" asked about.  It seemed so different from the EA that I've been studying that I decided to search the forums, which is how I came across this thread.


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## Tracer

i_guess_i_am_a_genius said:


> They said the way I spoke wasnt egyptian...
> Example...
> "I cant go before I take my exam"- Ma bnegdersh nerou7 gabli ma na5od emte7ani...
> I was corrected to say "ma ba2dersh arou7 2abl ma aa5od emte7ni, and was told that i speak like an ignorant person


 
Hello - Well, I'm not a native Arabic speaker so I may be putting my foot in my mouth, but I thought of this as a way out of your dilemma with your friends:

Using the *N* as you did in the phrase: Ma *bn*egdersh *n*erou7 is, oddly enough, a feature that is also found in several European languages for the first person singular WHEN ROYALTY IS SPEAKING. 

In fact, I've often heard several current Arab kings use this "antique" way of speaking when addressing their nation. So does the Queen of England _*(not in Arabic, of course).*_

In fact, in English, this is called the [Royal "We"].

Therefore, next time you see your friends, tell them you just can't help talking the way you do because, after all, you come from royal lineage and, well, it just comes natural to you......that was your upbringing and background.

See what they say.


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## Ghabi

Hi Tracer. I'm surprised to see you link the use of _n-_ in the first-person singular to "Royal We". I don't know about the conjugation in Alexandrian Arabic, but isn't it similar to Maghreb Arabic, where the conjugation system has developed to become more symmetrical? That is,

1st person: (singular) n-0 (plural) n-uu
2nd person: (singular) t-0 (plural) t-uu
3rd person: (singular) y-0 (plural) y-uu

where _n-0_ isn't for "we" (royal or not), which has become _n-uu_. Or Alexandrian Arabic isn't like this?


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## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

That's how the older people speak in the delta, now its more like cairo speech., n- conjugations are more southern and typical to the western desert


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## Tracer

Ghabi said:


> Hi Tracer. I'm surprised to see you link the use of _n-_ in the first-person singular to "Royal We". I don't know about the conjugation in Alexandrian Arabic, but isn't it similar to Maghreb Arabic, where the conjugation system has developed to become more symmetrical? That is,
> 
> 1st person: (singular) n-0 (plural) n-uu
> 2nd person: (singular) t-0 (plural) t-uu
> 3rd person: (singular) y-0 (plural) y-uu
> 
> where _n-0_ isn't for "we" (royal or not), which has become _n-uu_. Or Alexandrian Arabic isn't like this?


Well, like I said, I'd probably "put my foot in my mouth".  I don't know anything about the Maghrabi dialect except that it exists, and even less about an Alexandrian dialect, except that I know where it's located.

I figured if someone was using n- for 1st person singular, he was using the Royal "we".....but I admit it was a stab in the dark* (and I got stabbed).*


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## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

All maghrebine dialects conjugate first person singular with "N-".  I assume it happened through making it symmetrical, idk.  Maltese even uses the exact same conjugation, as well as andalusi arabic.


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## WadiH

Tracer said:


> I figured if someone was using n- for 1st person singular, he was using the Royal "we".....but I admit it was a stab in the dark* (and I got stabbed).*



I would still recommend it as a response, though.


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## إسكندراني

By the way if anyone is wondering, the maghrebi and traditional alexandrian way of conjugating I do & we do is نعمل and نعملوا respectively, while in modern Cairene it is أعمل and نعمل respectively


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## Tracer

Good experiment:

Next time I'm in Cairo and go to a restaurant *by myself*, I'll say:

*NaHnu nureed Fingaan 'aHwa.*

and see what happens.

_(Well, I won't want to sound too uppity so I'll just say:  _*EHna 3azeen fingaan 'aHwa.)*


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## clevermizo

That's not how it works. The dialects that use n- for the first person singular don't call themselves i7na, they still use 2ana. What you suggest would probably sound strange indeed .

In the case of نروح, it is أنا نروح and إحنا نروحو.

It isn't so much a "royal we" as a leveling of the prefix conjugation's paradigm.


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## إسكندراني

Tracer said:


> Good experiment:
> 
> Next time I'm in Cairo and go to a restaurant *by myself*, I'll say:
> 
> *NaHnu nureed Fingaan 'aHwa.*
> 
> and see what happens.
> 
> _(Well, I won't want to sound too uppity so I'll just say:  _*EHna 3azeen fingaan 'aHwa.)*


There should be a sarcasm smiley to make it more clear when you're pulling our leg!


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## Bruss04

إسكندراني said:


> By the way if anyone is wondering, the maghrebi and traditional alexandrian way of conjugating I do & we do is نعمل and نعملوا respectively, while in modern Cairene it is أعمل and نعمل respectively



Would they also use 'ndiir' 'ndiiro' to mean 'i do' 'we do' in Alexandria?


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## إسكندراني

No.
It's certainly not a 'real' maghrebi dialect, I just found that it shared quite a few features and quite a bit of vocab.
One would say كنت بنعملّ لمحمّد الشّاي رحت واخد بالي إنّ البرّاد مافهوش ماية


clevermizo said:


> In the case of نروح, it is أنا نروح and إحنا نروحو.


Actually we would keep the بـ
أنا بنقوم كلّ يوم الصّبح عشان نروح المدرسة


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## Ghabi

Do you use _-um_ (instead of _-u_) for the third-person plural perfect? I heard that it's used in Sa3iidi Arabic.


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## إسكندراني

راحوا=راحم to my ears but this isn't really my native tongue  - it's used in more traditional areas of the city and I have the additional corruption of living abroad.
Certainly أكلتم؟ is just as common as أكلتوا؟ even today.


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## Ghabi

So the _-m_ is also used in the second-person plural! Great to learn this!


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## إسكندراني

Actually come to think of it I don't think راحم is acceptable, but 2nd person definitely is. I'll think about it in the morning!


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## Hemza

I'm Moroccan, and it's very similar to Alexandrian dialect, we would say: "ma naqdarsh nmchi qabl ma nakhud imti7ani". (Algerians use "nrou7"). Most Moroccan people use "ga" but in my city (Fès), we say "qa" or "2a".


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## Hemza

إسكندراني said:


> راحوا=راحم to my ears but this isn't really my native tongue  - it's used in more traditional areas of the city and I have the additional corruption of living abroad.
> Certainly أكلتم؟ is just as common as أكلتوا؟ even today.


I know the thread is old  but this is something I noticed in my Egyptian friend speech (rural). He says "راحم, عملم, طلبم" etc. How is this spread in Egypt? I used to go out with a bunch of Egyptians, most of them being from Cairo/Alexandria, my friend was the only one from الغربية (within the group) and he was the only one using this added م. Is it part of the urban/rural split? Or is it more a time related thing, like older vs current way of speaking?


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## cherine

I don't think it's a time thing, but more of a regional thing.
But note that a verb like جاء (pronounced ga(h) in Alexandria and ge(h) in Cairo) takes the miim جُم in both cities. Maybe because dropping it would make it a strange-sounding one letter word جُ


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