# 一体……っていうんだ



## thetazuo

1. 「それで……令音さん、夕弦は一体どこに消えた*っていうんですか*？」
Context: 夕弦 vanished and 士道 was asking about her whereabouts.

2. 耶俱矢「さぁて、忘れてはおらぬだろうな。我らが聖戦の前に交わした契約を！」
士道「ちゃんと覚えてるよ。……んで？一体何させよう*っていうんだ*？」

Context:
耶俱矢 and 士道 entered a competition and agreed that the winner could order the loser to do something. And as a result, 士道 lost.

Hi. I understand the meanings of the underlined sentences are “Where on earth did 夕弦 disappear to?” and “What on earth do you want me to do?” respectively.
I am wondering if the bold っていうんですか and っていうんだ have the same function, namely, emphasizing the question? Can we use っていうんですか and っていうんだ interchangeably in both examples?

Thank you.


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## Flaminius

Yes, っていうんだ and っていうんですか are used for emphasis.  The former is not a question in form because adding か makes the construction sarcasm (っていうんだか means there is nothing between them to talk about).  It is still a question.

These two constructions are different in speech level.  っていうんだ is a casual form, and っていうんですか is a polite form.  They comply the respective speech levels in their own environments.  Shidō speaks politely with Rēin, and casually with Yakushi.  If you flip the sentences, they no more comply the speech levels in their respective environment.  This isn't good.


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## thetazuo

Thank you very much.


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## thetazuo

Hi. By the way, can we omit the っていうんですか and っていうんだ in those examples?


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## jonnymind

in general, I wouldn’t omit them willy-nilly, as they may convey some important context information, like a sentence in English starting with “Are you telling me [so and so]?”, but in this case it seems more like a mannerism of the character. I would render it with a mannerism that you can repeat in English, with a similar leverage, as i.e. “I mean...”

I.e, see if you like this:
”I mean, where is Yuzuru gone?”
”I mean, what are you planning to have me doing?”


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## Flaminius

It is a matter of how well the rest of the sentences match with a question particle at the end.  Yes, どこに消えた can take の to produce a legitimate interrogative sentence: 一体どこに消えたの



thetazuo said:


> 一体何させよう


You cannot use の.  Try か and you will get a "shall we" sentence.  Again, not good.


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## thetazuo

Thank you. So can I also think the bold parts in the two op examples indicate イライラと催促? I feel they are related to the usage mentioned in this thread. っていうのよ


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## Flaminius

The sentences are filled with considerable exasperation, although it is difficult to determine how much of it is from 一体 and how much is from いうんだ.

I am a bit wiser about いうんだ due to the excellent question you asked above: What would become of 何をしようというのか if deprived of というの (modified your sentence)?  The answer; it becomes, 何をしようか and that means, "What shall *we* do?"  Do you understand how wondeful this discovery is?  It means というの here overrides the inclusive-we interpretation of よう to exclude the first person from the subject of the embedded verb, しよう.  The inclusiveness of よう is pretty strong.  So much as that it can be used for euphemistic orders.  A sign in my neighbourhood reads, 犬の糞は飼い主が掃除しましょう.

Now, I go back to 何をしようか.  It is absolutely, "What shall I/we do?"  But when you add というの, the meaning completely changes.  何をしようというのか is usually "What will you/they do?"  Of course it may mean "shall we" in contexts and explicit forms like われわれは何をしようをというのか are entirely possible, but the more common understanding is that it now denotes the will of someone other than the speaker.  Oh, I am so amazed with the power of というの.  Then, focusing on the intention of someone in interrogative sentences can be an expression of exasperation.

I think I have a better understanding of this expression.


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## thetazuo

Thank you again. But how are the usage of the two bold parts in op related to that as explained in the other thread? I think those versions of というのか (というの/というのか/っていうのよ/っていうの, etc.) always indicate イライラと催促, and sometimes this expression changes a sentence into a rhetorical question, and sometimes the expression is just for emphasis.


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## Flaminius

It's the always part I take issues with.  I have been trying to tell you that it's not as simple as that.  These examples may mean exasperation in the given contexts, but the nuances could be surprise or mild expectation depending in other contexts.  If Yakushi and Shidō are in amicable terms, what she is going to ask him to do may well be something fun.  Then, the nuance of というんだ can be pleasant expectation.


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## thetazuo

Thank you. I see. Sorry for being too absolute. So how can we know if a というの/というのか/っていうのよ/っていうの, etc, is used to change a sentence into a rhetorical question or is just for emphasis? We can only tell it from context?


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## Flaminius

Was it not the conclusion of the other thread?


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