# فبرك



## Idris

Is the word فبرك (to fabricate) of non-Arabic origin, like the English "fabric" is from Latin "fabrica" (something manufactured)?


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## Haroon

Yes, it is. It means, in Colloquial Arabic, to make up, invent ( usually unreal events, stories, excuses).


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## Idris

Then we should not use it.


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## Masjeen

Idris said:


> Then we should not use it.



Well, I understand the Arab nationalists when they are  against  the  borrowed words.. but why are you so..?


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## Idris

Masjeen said:


> Well, I understand the Arab nationalists when they are  against  the  borrowed words.. but why are you so..?



Because already there are other words for "fabricate" and we don't need another especially from a foreign language, do we? We could have accepted it if it was a technical word or something, but why do we need it for something as simple as the verb "to fabricate"?


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## Masjeen

Not exactly.. "مفبرك" used to denote a negative thing (Counterfeiting & forgery) While "مصطنع" does not indicate the same.. it only means "Industrial"..


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## Daybreaker

Idris said:


> Then we should not use it.



Then we should not use words like شيخ, برنامج, نموذج because they come from Persian شاه, برنامه, نمونه or a word like شرطة from Italian "scorta" [escort] or others ;-)


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## إسكندراني

فبرك is pan-European so not exclusively English either.


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## Arabus

This word is used formally only by some Lebanese. Other Arabs usually avoid such words.

If you have been reading Lebanese newspapers recently, you could have noticed that papers with national orientation used the phrase (شهود الزور ومصنيعهم).


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## Arabus

This word entered Syrian-Lebanese Arabic from French between 1920 and 1947 along with tens of other words. Most of these are now virtually extinct in Syrian, you can hear them used only by people who are 60+ year old or illiterates. In Lebanese however, most of these words seem to have been ratained. This is because Syria and Lebanon have very different political and cultural systems.


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## إسكندراني

It is certainly used in Egypt, I think probably in the formal media occasionally too.


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## WadiH

I don't see anything wrong with using this word in MSA.  It's just another synonym so where's the harm in that?  Yes there are already Arabic words with a similar meaning but this word has its own connotations (as do the aforementioned Arabic words, of course).


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## samatar

In Palestine the word is also used.. it could be that it filtrated through the Lebanese media, but I don't know that for sure


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## Arabus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> this word has its own connotations



No it does not. The roots زور or صنع have the same meaning.

As for my opinion on whether we should use it or not, I don't think my opinion matters. I just explained the cultural situation of this word.

Perhaps a Saudi or an Egyptian person would think this is a facny word to use, but for me as a Syrian, it reminds me of an 80 year old illitrate who says فابريك (fabrique) when he means to say a factory. If we in Syria kept using whatever European and Turkish words we received, there wouldn't have been MSA by now.


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## Xence

Arabus,

Do you mean that you don't even use the adjective مفبرك(ة) ا in a figurative sense like قصة مفبركة - سيناريو مفبرك ?


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## Arabus

It is a colloquial word. It has only started to gain a tinge of formalness in the last few years under the influence of Lebanese meadia. But like I said, most Lebanese newspapers still prefered to use the word مُصنع during the last surge in the use of this word, and those who used it generally put it in quotation marks "مفبرك", so it can't be considered an official word. It is colloquial, not MSA. I don't know what is so weird about that. I feel like I am talking to Americans not Arabs!

Here is the MSA lexicons, check yourself:

http://lexicons.ajeeb.com/


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## rayloom

Arabus said:


> It is a colloquial word. It has only started to gain a tinge of formalness in the last few years under the influence of Lebanese meadia. But like I said, most Lebanese newspapers still prefered to use the word مُصنع during the last surge in the use of this word, and those who used it generally put it in quotation marks "مفبرك", so it can't be considered an official word. It is colloquial, not MSA. I don't know what is so weird about that. I feel like I am talking to Americans not Arabs!
> 
> Here is the MSA lexicons, check yourself:
> 
> http://lexicons.ajeeb.com/



The fact that it's not in the lexicon doesn't mean it should be dropped from the language. And if it's gaining momentum and popularity doesn't mean we should stop it. 
That's how languages develop. fabrak and mufabrak have aquired a certain connotation in Arabic which isn't expressed by their Arabic counterparts.
I don't see a reason why you're against it.
I don't also see the logic behind the thought that if it's not in our lexica, then we shouldn't use it formally.
The same with مؤدلج, which is derived from ideology, and it carries a certain meaning which isn't expressed by its Arabic counterpart.


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## Xence

Arabus said:
			
		

> so it can't be considered an official word. It is colloquial, not MSA



Well.
Let's look at the question from another angle. When the Syrian press agency uses this word about an official correspondence, must we still consider it as colloquial ?



> دمشق
> سانا
> الجمعة 6-8-2010م
> وجه وزير الخارجية وليد المعلم أمس رسائل الى كل من الامين العام للامم المتحدة ورئيس مجلس الامن الدولي ورئيس مجلس حقوق الانسان ورئيس اللجنة الدولية للصليب الاحمر والمفوضة السامية لحقوق الانسان تتعلق بالانتهاكات الاسرائيلية المستمرة في الجولان السوري المحتل وقيام قوات الاحتلال الاسرائيلي باعتقال عدد من اهلنا في قرية مجدل شمس في الجولان السوري المحتل بتهم *مفبركة *في محاولة منها لارهابهم.‏​Source


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## إسكندراني

I think Xence confirmed the acceptance of the adjective مفبرك in MSA just there  - I quite like this word as it is necessary and understandable, though I do disagree with excessive anglicisation of Arabic in general.


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## psxws

This is really interesting! I like this word. Just out of curiosity, what would be the مصدر for this word? (if there is one)


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## Mahaodeh

*فبركة*

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Daybreaker said:


> Then we should not use words like شيخ, برنامج, نموذج because they come from Persian شاه, برنامه, نمونه



شيخ does not come from شاه; why would you think that?


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## rayloom

psxws said:


> This is really interesting! I like this word. Just out of curiosity, what would be the مصدر for this word? (if there is one)



فبركة and it's also used


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## kifaru

To those of you who disagree with Arabus' position, is there no way to express the same idea in Arabic? If there is do you see a risk of limiting a person's vocabulary in Arabic by using arabised words instead of learning and using Arabic derived words to express a particular concept? I am asking this because I am reading a discourse on Quran than purports that the Quran is untranslatable. 



Arabus said:


> No it does not. The roots زور or صنع have the same meaning.
> 
> As for my opinion on whether we should use it or not, I don't think my opinion matters. I just explained the cultural situation of this word.
> 
> Perhaps a Saudi or an Egyptian person would think this is a facny word to use, but for me as a Syrian, it reminds me of an 80 year old illitrate who says فابريك (fabrique) when he means to say a factory. If we in Syria kept using whatever European and Turkish words we received, there wouldn't have been MSA by now.


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## rayloom

There are words that mean invented, made up, fabricated. It's not a problem of lack of words or meanings. It's a matter of associated connotations which have a sort of an implied meaning. 
For example, other words that mean مفبرك mufabrak:
مختلق
ملفق
and from this discussion:
مزور
مصطنع
...etc.

If we examine the word mufabrak, it implies bad intention, and some effort put in fabracting something (to me atleast)!
مختلق doesn't imply bad intention, it could have been due to good intentions or by mistake!
ملفق doesn't exactly mean 'made up', & although it implies bad intention, it however doesn't lead you to think there was an effort in fabricating something.
مزور means counterfeited or tampered with, doesn't mean it was  made up, there could be some truth in it.
مصطنع means artificial, carries no negative or positive connotations in it.
مزيف means fake. Pretty much like fake in English.

Same with many other words; I have listed مؤدلج as an example in the discussion. The idea is why resist using a borrowed word when it's already widespread and delivers a meaning quite well.

Regarding the Quran, it can be translated, there is always something lost in the translation.


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## WadiH

rayloom said:


> ملفق



Actually, this word did not originally have the negative connotations that it has now.  It simply means "to piece together" (whereas now people often use it to mean "to fake" or "make something up"). It used to be that when you say that a person يلفّق في المذاهب it means that he picks and chooses rules from different مذاهب instead of sticking to one مذهب on all matters.


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## Arabus

kifaru said:


> To those of you who disagree with Arabus' position


 
I have no position. I just described the cultural situation of the word.

The last thing I would do is to prescribe grammar.


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## kifaru

Then you have my apologies for assigning to you a position that you did not take.


Arabus said:


> I have no position. I just described the cultural situation of the word.


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