# شباك / نافذة



## Anne58

Hello,

Just a question on gender of these two words . . . .

نافذة would appear to be feminine because of the ta marbuta
شباك would appear to be masculine because of the lack of ta marbuta

Both can be used for the word window and the Hans Wehr makes no indication that the gender would be otherwise than the assumed based the presence or lack of a ta marbuta.

So are they in fact of different gender?

Thanks


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## samatar

Yup

I would like to add that in Palestine we use شباك, but in MSA نافذة is more prominent, though not exclusive, when referring to a proper window. شباك in MSA is also used when referring to, say, a ticket booth - شبّاك تذاكر


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## farid2101

Hello Anne

Yes ..... you are right again
They are different gender

  feminine ........هذه نافذة
هذا شباك....... masculine


Farid2101


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## Haroon

As we say:

هذا شباك 
and 
هذه نافذة
also
شباك كبير
and 
نافذة كبيرة
so they are definitely from different orgin.


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## newbie24

Hi,

I'm wondering whether the words شباك and نافذة are synonyms or whether there are situations in which there is a clear distinction between them. I only found the following thread: 
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1929268&highlight=شباك+نافذة
which gives one hint, but does not really answer the question.

TIA,

thomas


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## Anne58

Hi Thomas,

Since the post you listed below, I have discovered more about the origins of شباك . . . . the root of the word شبك refers to interweaving, intertwined and the arabic word for net / netting is شبكة.

Taking this information and applying it to شباك implies that this particular type of window would be the kind that has a grill or lattice work associated with it - much like you would see at a ticket booth or perhaps a 'leaded' glass window.

نافذة on the other hand is just an ordinary window of the type you'd see in a house, building, vehicle etc.

Hope this helps.


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## إسكندراني

We use them interchangeably, despite their different etymology.


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## Kinan

All I know is that نافذة is فصحى while شباك is used in everyday speech.


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## Masjeen

Kinan said:


> All I know is that نافذة is فصحى while شباك is used in everyday speech.



I agree with you, شباك is colloquial arabic (spoken Arabic) while  نافذة is fuṣḥā (written Arabic).. also شباك  is not used in arabian peninsula we use دريشة instead.


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## Abu Talha

Masjeen said:


> شباك is colloquial arabic (spoken Arabic)


Hava's Arabic-English dictionary also marks شُبّاك as colloquial for "Window. Lattice work of a window." and فصيح for "Net. Network. Mat of reeds. Grating. Lattice."


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## suma

The only difference I've noticed as well is that* نافذة  *is very fuShaa and you never hear it in ordinary speech.


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## WadiH

Masjeen said:


> I agree with you, شباك is colloquial arabic (spoken Arabic) while  نافذة is fuṣḥā (written Arabic).. also شباك  is not used in arabian peninsula we use دريشة instead.



شباك is used in MSA (e.g. شباك التذاكر) and it is fuS7a in origin.  It is also commonly-used in Saudi Arabia, especially among young people (who are the majority here after all), though it was probably brought here by Syrian expatriates.

دريشة is only used in the eastern half of the Peninsula (Najd and the Gulf) and it is of Iranian origin.


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## Masjeen

Wadi Hanifa said:


> دريشة is only used in the eastern half of the Peninsula (Najd and the Gulf) and it is of Iranian origin.



Maybe Indian or Ottoman Turkish.. window in farsi is panjara.


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## WadiH

Masjeen said:


> Maybe Indian or Ottoman Turkish.. window in farsi is panjara.



It's Persian.  We had a thread about it on the Indo-Iranian forum.


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## كلمات

Another name for a window in some Arabic countries is الطاقة.


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## إسكندراني

Which countries distinguish between an open نافذة and a مشربية-style window? In Egypt we can use شبّاك for all windows, even in formal writing.


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## Finland

Hello!



كلمات said:


> Another name for a window in some Arabic countries is الطاقة.



In Algeria and Libya it is التاقة. I don't know in which country it is الطاقة. The plural in Algeria and Libya is mainly التواقي.

HTH
S


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## Finland

Hello!



إسكندراني said:


> Which countries distinguish between an open نافذة and a مشربية-style window? In Egypt we can use شبّاك for all windows, even in formal writing.



I am not sure, but this discussion reminded me of my first week in Algeria. We were speaking "relaxed MSA" with a colleague, and I used the word شباك to refer to a window. My colleague found it odd and corrected me: نافذة. I think for her it was a clear distinction that a شباك is a مشربية-style window. I had not come across this distinction before (although etymologically it does make sense).

HTH
S


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## كلمات

Finland said:


> In Algeria and Libya it is التاقة. I don't know in which country it is الطاقة. The plural in Algeria and Libya is mainly التواقي.



While it could be pronounced التاقة now, I assume its origin is probably الطاقة which is used in some parts in the Arabian peninsula. It's popular wisdom I guess to call a window the energy since light and air come through it.


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## إسكندراني

كلمات said:


> While it could be pronounced التاقة now, I assume its origin is probably الطاقة which is used in some parts in the Arabian peninsula. It's popular wisdom I guess to call a window the energy since light and air come through it.


It doesn't have to be derived from the meaning 'energy', we also say طاقية and I don't think that relates to energy.


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## كلمات

Well yes it doesn't have to but unlike طاقية, the word طاقة means energy and if the respective window name is derived from that, then it does makes sense. It's a personal guess as I wrote in the answer.


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## Ali Smith

شُبّاك is indeed classical but it means "grated window" or "latticed window" in classical Arabic. I am not sure, but نافِذَة seems to be the generic word for "window" in classical Arabic.


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## Mahaodeh

كلمات said:


> Well yes it doesn't have to but unlike طاقية, the word طاقة means energy and if the respective window name is derived from that, then it does makes sense. It's a personal guess as I wrote in the answer.


I know this is old, but I can’t help but comment. طاقة is not derived from the word for energy. طاقة meaning energy is a relatively new term that was derived from طاقة to mean “bearing” or “capacity” or “aptitude”.

طاقة for window is derived from الطاق, which is Classical Arabic for keystone, which is تخفيف طائق. It was called so because it bares the stress of the arch. Needless to say that الطاقة was originally for arched windows but later started to be used for all windows.


Ali Smith said:


> I am not sure, but نافِذَة seems to be the generic word for "window" in classical Arabic.


I don’t think that نافذة existed in Classical Arabic, although I can’t be sure of course. If anything, I would imagine that طاقة would be the generic word in CA. 

Having said that, a شبّاك would be the standard way to cover a window, they did not use large panes of glass in that time because it was too hard to make, transport, fix, and maintain. Also glass was not clear like it is today. If they used it, and I stress the if because it was expensive, it would be in a grid of wood to hold it, hence a شبّاك.


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## Hemza

In Morocco (and I think it's also the case for Algeria and Libya) طاق/طاقة means window (beside some other words). As for تاقة I think it is typically a regional Algerian pronounciation. Libyans use روشن also. In these countries, شبّاك is not the window but rather the kind of wire netting which is put on the window from the outside to protect from intruders. Only Tunisia use شبّاك for windows in the Maghreb.


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