# Danish/Tatar/Greenlandic/Norwegian: Handwritten versions of special Latin characters & umlaut



## Whodunit

Hi,

I'm interested in how special Latin letters are treated in handwriting. I'm only referring to four letters:

Danish *æ* and *Æ*, *ø* and *Ø*
Tatar *ә* and *Ә*
Old Greenlandish *ĸ*

I'd be so thankful if some native speakers, who write those letters daily, could attach a scanned file in which at least one of the letters can be seen in handwriting, maybe combined with other letters. 

Or maybe there's a good website where I can find the handwriting system of those letters. 

Thank you in advance.


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## jimreilly

Well, no native speaker has answered you yet--too bad, as I'd like to see the answer! I know that when I am writing Norwegian by hand, which has the same letters as Danish, I simply wait until I get to the end of a word to put a slash through the o to make ø, and when I'm writing æ I just make the a and the e so close together that they come out looking like one letter! But I too have wondered how native speakers do it, and I've never thought to ask. I will ask one of my Norwegian friends when I get a chance and get back to you....


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## elroy

I agree with you about "ø": you just write a regular "o" and then go back and write the slash through it.

As for "æ," I would begin as if I were going to write an "a."  In fact, I'd write almost a whole "a," stopping after closing the "circle" and just before I would normally draw a curve to connect the "a" with the next letter.  Instead, I'd go to the left, along the upper arc of the circle, and cut through the middle of the circle, splitting it in half, as it were, and then have that be my "connector."  That is, I would "exit" the circle by having my "bisector" intersect the lower right side of the circle and extend outward, ready to connect to the next letter.

I don't know if the above description was clear!  Too bad we can't handwrite our posts!  

I'm not really sure about the other two.  I have some sort of idea about how I'd write the little "k," but I'm not sure it's conventional.  Of course, I'm not a native so even the above attempts are not 100% reliable!


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## jimreilly

Elroy is quite right about the æ and actually my answer about it was one of those cases where when you stop to think about something that you usually do automatically you don't think straight! The way he describes it is the way I really do it. Meanwhile, I have e-mailed some Norwegian friends who are natuve speakers to ask their opinion--because of the time difference I'm sure they will not give me an immediate answer!


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## Josh_

I was just thinking about it and it came to me (I mean how I would write it anyway). I would write the out the 'a' (as if I were writing a backwards 6 and as I was finishing the circle I would not stop at the vertical line (the right side of the letter 'a'), but instead continue to draw the line straight through onto the right side of the 'a' and then curve up and around finishing the 'e'. In other words, draw the 'a' like you normally would and as you are finishing the circle, do not raise up your pencil, but continue the line through the 'a' and write the 'e' like you normally would. If you look at 'a' and 'e' are essentially the same symbol, but turned 180 degrees from each other -- in other words the 'a' is an upside down 'e' or the 'e' is an upside down a.

I hope that makes sense, and I hope that is not what Elroy was describing.


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## jimreilly

I think Elroy was describing handwriting and Josh was describing hand printing! Otherwise I'm lost....


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## elroy

jimreilly said:
			
		

> I think Elroy was describing handwriting and Josh was describing hand printing! Otherwise I'm lost....


 
I think so too. I assumed Whodunit's question was about how to write these letters when they need to be connected to other letters.

Josh, the way you describe for _printing_ the æ is elaborate and acceptable, but I think the more common way to print it is similar to the one I describe. You start out writing an "a" (not a backwards "6" but the "a" most people write) and you cut the circle in half. 

Jim, du snakker norsk?


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## jimreilly

I did receive a scanned file from a schoolteacher friend in Norway, for the ø's and æ's, but I cannot get it to attach to a response. If someone would like to receive it, please send me a message and let me know how to get it to you.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> I agree with you about "ø": you just write a regular "o" and then go back and write the slash through it.
> 
> As for "æ," I would begin as if I were going to write an "a." In fact, I'd write almost a whole "a," stopping after closing the "circle" and just before I would normally draw a curve to connect the "a" with the next letter. Instead, I'd go to the left, along the upper arc of the circle, and cut through the middle of the circle, splitting it in half, as it were, and then have that be my "connector." That is, I would "exit" the circle by having my "bisector" intersect the lower right side of the circle and extend outward, ready to connect to the next letter.
> 
> I don't know if the above description was clear! Too bad we can't handwrite our posts!
> 
> I'm not really sure about the other two. I have some sort of idea about how I'd write the little "k," but I'm not sure it's conventional. Of course, I'm not a native so even the above attempts are not 100% reliable!


 
Yes, that's exactly how I'd do it, but this topic has a catch for me:

I have no idea how I can then distinguish between œ and æ. Because if I seperate "a" and "o" from the preceding letter, the only difference between these two letters is the tail on the upper right and the arc on the lower right part of the 'a'. Therefore, I can't differentiate between them anymore, since the 'e' covers the last part of the letters.

Another problem is the capitalization of those ligatures. How would you (in handwritten version!) write Æ (and Œ)? Is it common to capitalize both part of the ligature or could I also write "Ae" together? 

Thank you for the informative answers.


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## Whodunit

jimreilly said:
			
		

> I did receive a scanned file from a schoolteacher friend in Norway, for the ø's and æ's, but I cannot get it to attach to a response. If someone would like to receive it, please send me a message and let me know how to get it to you.


 
First try to attach it here. Is it too big or what in order not to be allowed to attach the file on your message? If you really can't manage it, I'll send you a PM later. 

Thanks for your effort.


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## jimreilly

Here's another effort--no, it won't work--word reference tells me it is an "invalid file"--

there may be something I don't understand about how to do it properly, as I have never attached anything to a wordreference file--but I do not have a problem normally with attachments to regular e-mail messages


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## Islendingurinn

Hi

I´m not danish but æ is used in icelandic as well. Dont know if the attachement helps if it works


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## jimreilly

To Whodunit, as far as distinguishing between æ and and œ, it hasn't been a problem for me in any language I use, because æ is in Norwegian, Danish, and Icelandic, but not œ (ø or ö is used instead). And œ is in French, but not æ.

And, yes A and E are both capitalized in Æ, which looks pretty much the same in printing and handwriting.

Finally, welcome to Islendingurinn, great to have an Icelander on the site. One of my favorite languages to sing in, even if I don't do it very well!


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## Sevensky

By acident I saw the video. It helps I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlYoc0IvbvM
Is it a bit late?


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## jimreilly

Well, yes, it was a long time ago, but thank you! It seems a bit more like printing than writing.


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## Lars H

Hej

I am not native, but a neighbour (to the Danes).
If you google "håndskrift" (Handwriting) you could get some examples in the pictures 
Or just click here 
Sorry to say, not all of them are very good examples of handwriting

But I am quite sure about capitalizing. Æ is one letter, not two, so the whole sign should capitalized, you cannot write Ae


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## Sepia

Whodunit said:


> Yes, that's exactly how I'd do it, but this topic has a catch for me:
> 
> I have no idea how I can then distinguish between œ and æ. Because if I seperate "a" and "o" from the preceding letter, the only difference between these two letters is the tail on the upper right and the arc on the lower right part of the 'a'. Therefore, I can't differentiate between them anymore, since the 'e' covers the last part of the letters.
> 
> Another problem is the capitalization of those ligatures. How would you (in handwritten version!) write Æ (and Œ)? Is it common to capitalize both part of the ligature or could I also write "Ae" together?
> 
> Thank you for the informative answers.




Æ is not considered a ligatures - it is a letter in its own right with its own place in the alphabet. Thus it is written as Æ, when capitalized.

It is pretty easy to distinguish Æ and Œ, since Œ is not used in Danish words (if you really mean the ligature oe), and Æ is not likely to be used in any foreign word.


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## Stoggler

Quick question about this particular letter - how is it written when handwritten?  Do people write them as separate letters (i.e. ae), or do they attempt to write them together as a ligature like the printed letter?

Thanks


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## sindridah

write "*a*" and then put a bow on the upper half on the back!


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## Talarðu íslensku?

This might be of interest to original questioner, and I am personally curious, but can I write umlaut in Swedish ä and ö with a "line" instead of two dots?


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## JohanIII

Re umlaut: jo.
Vad man gör, om man inte lyfter pennan, är något som liknar ett platt u eller w eller kanske tilde (~), eller t o m ett rakt streck.

Jag tänkte först skriva att nehejdu, så gör man inte, men efter att ha kollat mitt eget anteckningsblock fann jag till min förvåning att där drog jag raka streck... 

NB: Ett rakt streck över t ex o, används dessutom (även för skärmskrift) för att markera vissa dialektala ljud.


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## M S

Old thread, but "important" knowledge and no fulfilled answer so here is my version:

I (and, I think, most other Danish people) write the lower-case "æ" as Islendingurinn showed. Some write it as "æ" (pretty much as "ә" and "e" contracted); I think it depends on how they write "a" (I write mine like this: howto.co.uk/abroad/living-in-norway/handwriting/), but the "әe"-way comes from this way: "a" of writing an "a". I don't know anyone writing "æ" as "a" and "e" contracted.
Upper-case Æ is most often written as "Æ" but I think I have seen it written as large version of the "әe"-way.

The lower-case ø is written either with the slash as in "ø" or like "ó" as seen on howto.co.uk/abroad/living-in-norway/handwriting/. I was taught in school ("formskrift") to do it the "ó"-way, but use the "ø"-way like most other (especially young) people do (as in Sevensky's youtube reference). Both is accepted in handwriting but only "ø" is used electronically.
I don't think I have seen the upper-case Ø written like "Ó", only like "Ø".

Not asked for but nice to know: When typing on foreign keyboard layouts (for instance on vacations) many people use the old "aa"-way of writing "å" (as in many Danish surnames and some Danish cities), and often people use "ae" in stead of "æ" and sometimes "oe" in stead of "ø".

Sorry for the lack of real links; new users are not allowed to post links (and this is my first post). I also wanted to link to Wikipedias Danish site about formskrift, as I just wanted it to be for extra knowledge. Stupid restriction!


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