# ese antro



## Rudo82

Hi, I'm translating something from Chilean Spanish into English, and in it a father refers to an outdoor party his kids have attended (to celebrate Pinochet's arrest) as "ese antro". I've searched everywhere, but can't find an English equivalent I'm happy with. I think "rave" is the closest I've found, but it's not got quite the right negative connotations... any thoughts?

Thank you!


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## franzjekill

nota de moderador:
Necesitamos texto, una oración completa, y contexto suficiente, por favor. 
Gracias

Regla 3: "Aporte el contexto necesario y la oración completa que contenga la frase o palabra objeto de su consulta cada vez que formule una pregunta".


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## Rudo82

Apologies, here's some context:



"Imaginaba al papá frente al manubrio, camino a Santiago. Cabros de mierda, les dije que no fueran a ese antro del Parque O’Higgins."

His oldest two children are in hospital, having been involved in an accident after celebrating Pinochet's arrest at a party, which he disapproved of in the first place.

The most common translation I can find for "antro" is "dive", which sort of works, except I think dive refers to a place, such as a nightclub or bar, rather than an event, which is what he's referring to here.

Probably also worth adding that this is potentially for a US audience, so while "piss-up" would work well in the UK, I'm not sure it works in America?


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## User With No Name

Rudo82 said:


> while "piss-up" would work well in the UK, I'm not sure it works in America?


Your suspicion is correct. It wouldn't work here.


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## Galván

Antro es un nightclub


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## Rudo82

User With No Name said:


> Your suspicion is correct. It wouldn't work here.


Thank you! Any idea what would??


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## Azarosa

Perdón, pero no hay night-clubs en el parque O' Higgins de Santiago... y un antro es un lugar de mal aspecto o mala reputación.¿por qué no traducir directamente como _den_? Porque en el pasaje que reproduce el OP tiene un uso muy despectivo. No sé de qué época es el fragmento en cuestión, pero reproduzco un comentario, de 2017, de ese país (por si sirve como referencia):

_El mejor salón internacional de Pool en Santiago, cuenta con todas las modalidades de juegos derivadas del billar y Pool chileno, incorporó recientemente mesas de Bola 8 Chino y ha llevado a representantes chilenos a los torneos realizados en China este 2017 en 2 oportunidades. Atención y condiciones del local excelentes...realmente es un lugar que rompe con el estigma de antro en Chile._


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## Rudo82

Galván said:


> Antro es un nightclub


Yes, thank you, but it’s definitely not a nightclub being referred to here… it’s a party in a park, described in a negative, condescending way…


Azarosa said:


> Perdón, pero no hay night-clubs en el parque O' Higgins de Santiago... y un antro es un lugar de mal aspecto o mala reputación.¿por qué no traducir directamente como _den_? Porque en el pasaje que reproduce el OP tiene un uso muy despectivo.


gracias, pero no me suena muy natural en inglés, “den”, cuando es una fiesta en el parque… creo que es algo asi como “rave”. Pero mas depreciativo…  “antro” en este caso refiere a la fiesta, no al parque, creo


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## Azarosa

Rudo82 said:


> Yes, thank you, but it’s definitely not a nightclub being referred to here… it’s a party in a park, described in a negative, condescending way…
> 
> gracias, pero no me suena muy natural en inglés, “den”, cuando es una fiesta en el parque… creo que es algo asi como “rave”. Pero mas depreciativo…


He editado mi post, por si sirve de algo. Solo a modo de referencia. Igualmente, sería bueno tener un contexto algo más completo, pues el significado podría diferir mucho dependiendo de la intención del autor


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## gato radioso

I've always understood "antro" as a place (*), never as an activity.

(*) A night club, a brothel, a pub...with very bad reputation.


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## The Newt

"That circus" might work, if what's wanted is a dismissive way to refer to an event.


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## Rudo82

The Newt said:


> "That circus" might work, if what's wanted is a dismissive way to refer to an event.


Ooooh, thank you. That might just do it.


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## Rudo82

Azarosa said:


> He editado mi post, por si sirve de algo. Solo a modo de referencia. Igualmente, sería bueno tener un contexto algo más completo, pues el significado podría diferir mucho dependiendo de la intención del autor


Muchas gracias - dí un poco mas contacto en otro post, pero voy a editar el original ahora, para ser mas claro


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## Aguas Claras

I might call an "antro" a "seedy joint". As far as I know "antro" always refers to a place, so I would understand the text to mean that the celebration was held in some kind of establishment in the Parque O'Higgins. If this isn't the case, you could always call it a "seedy celebration" or similar.


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## Galván

Aguas Claras said:


> I might call an "antro" a "seedy joint". As far as I know "antro" always refers to a place, so I would understand the text to mean that the celebration was held in some kind of establishment in the Parque O'Higgins. If this isn't the case, you could always call it a "seedy celebration" or similar.


Parque OHiggins in Santiago Chile is an open space where they have concerts and parades. It is possible that the dad who told this to his son didn't know anything about this place and just imagined he was going to an antro (a nightclub).


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## Aviador

Galván said:


> ... he was going to an antro (a nightclub).
> ...


But in Chile _antro_ is not simply a nightclub. The word _antro_ refers to a bad reputation, sloppy and sordid place. A nightclub can of course fit that description, but not necessarily. Nightclubs or any other place like that are not _antros_ per se.
What I think is that the character in that dialog simply uses a *metonymy* to refer to an activity he doesn't agree with by calling _antro_ the place it takes place at. It is not that there is any _antro_ at the park or that the park itself is such a thing, but the activity developed in it eventually transforms the park into an _antro_.


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## Mister Draken

I agree with the interpretation of the word "antro" given by @Aviador in the Chilean context.


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## Azarosa

Aviador said:


> But in Chile _antro_ is not simply a nightclub. The word _antro_ refers to a bad reputation, sloppy and sordid place. A nightclub can of course fit that description, but not necessarily. Nightclubs or any other place like that are not _antros_ per se.
> What I think is that the character in that dialog simply uses a *metonymy* to refer to an activity he doesn't agree with by calling _antro_ the place it takes place at. It is not that there is any _antro_ at the park or that the park itself is an antro, but the activity developed in it eventually transforms the park into an _antro_.


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## Galván

Interesting. Now we just need to know how to call such activity in English.


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## kidika

Aguas Claras said:


> I might call an "antro" a "seedy joint". As far as I know "antro" always refers to a place, so I would understand the text to mean that the celebration was held in some kind of establishment in the Parque O'Higgins. If this isn't the case, you could always call it a "seedy celebration" or similar.


I agree. An "antro" for me is a seedy joint too.


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## Galván

kidika said:


> I agree. An "antro" for me is a seedy joint too.


Well, that is not what Aviador said, and he is from Chile so he would know. Not a seedy joint but an activity.


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## elroy

Maybe 


Rudo82 said:


> les dije que no fueran a ese antro del Parque O’Higgins


He told them not to go join the *debauchery* at O’Higgins Park.


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## Naniyeller

antro en contexto

Si bien coincido con el común de los usuarios en que "antro" siempre lo he oído en referencia a lugar físico, cutre, y con connotaciones bastante peyorativas si tengo que escoger entre cómo calificar así a una actividad... Qué tal "hellhole"?


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## Mister Draken

Incluso "mayhem and debauchery".


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## kidika

Galván said:


> Antro es un nightclub


I merely stated what an antro is for me and for most Spaniards. It is not a nightclub, like you pointed out. It can be a bar, a pub a disco or whatever, but if you call it "antro", you are adding another meaning: seedy. 
I don't know if in Chile, activities can be "antros" or individual speakers decide to be creative and use the words slightly different, which happens a lot. 
In any case, an antro is not necessarily a nightclub and it is definitely not any kind of nightclub.


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## Aviador

kidika said:


> ...
> I don't know if in Chile, activities can be "antros" or individual speakers decide to be creative and use the words slightly different, which happens a lot.
> ...


No, _antro_ does not normally refer to an activity, but as I explained in my previous post, what I believe is that the author uses a *metonymy* to express his strong disagreement with the event his children have attended by calling _antro_ the place it took place at.

By the way, I vaguely remembered a discussion in these forums about the word _antro_ to signify disco or nightclub without any pejorative or negative connotation and found that it is usual in Mexican Spanish. An example: Antro.


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## Azarosa

Aviador said:


> No, _antro_ does not normally refer to an activity, but as I explained in my previous post, what I believe is that the author uses a *metonymy* to express his strong disagreement with the event his children have attended by calling _antro_ the place it took place at.
> 
> By the way, I vaguely remembered a discussion in these forums about the word _antro_ to signify disco or nightclub without any pejorative or negative connotation and found that it is usual in Mexican Spanish. An example: Antro.


❤️  ❤️


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## User With No Name

Aviador said:


> No, _antro_ does not normally refer to an activity, but as I explained in my previous post, what I believe is that the author uses a *metonymy* to express his strong disagreement with the event his children have attended by calling _antro_ the place it took place at.


Well, personally, I found your explanation perfectly clear and understandable. I'm not sure why things have gotten so confused.

Returning to the original question of how to express the same thing in English... I don't know. It's problematic, because I don't think the normal terms for a low-class club or bar ("*dive*," etc.) can easily be applied metonymically to an open-air event. "*Dump*" might be a possibility, but again, that would probably be taken to refer to the Parque itself, which IIRC isn't a dump at all, and not to the event.

Someone way above in the thread suggested "*circus*," which is obviously much less specific, but probably a good option.

The original poster mentions "*rave*," but then discards it (correctly in my opinion, because "*rave*" generally refers to a specific type of music and event, and is not derogative _per se_).

By way of analogy, I've been trying to think of what a disapproving parent might have called the famous Woodstock festival, and I'm not having any ideas. It's certainly possible to make up terms that might be used, like "*sleaze-fest*" or "*filth-fest*," but a more general option eludes me.


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## kidika

Aviador said:


> No, _antro_ does not normally refer to an activity, but as I explained in my previous post, what I believe is that the author uses a *metonymy* to express his strong disagreement with the event his children have attended by calling _antro_ the place it took place at.
> 
> By the way, I vaguely remembered a discussion in these forums about the word _antro_ to signify disco or nightclub without any pejorative or negative connotation and found that it is usual in Mexican Spanish. An example: Antro.


Yeah, metonymy was exactly the phenomenon I had in mind. Thanks.


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## kidika

User With No Name said:


> Returning to the original question of how to express the same thing in English... I don't know. It's problematic, because I don't think the normal terms for a low-class club or bar ("*dive*," etc.) can easily be applied metonymically to an open-air event. "*Dump*" might be a possibility, but again, that would probably be taken to refer to the Parque itself, which IIRC isn't a dump at all, and not to the event.


But we have the same problem in Spanish: it is odd to call an open-air event "antro". So you have two options: either you "respect" the original choice made by the speaker and translate it with an equally awkward word in English, or you better the original version by giving a proper  pejorative word for that event. Some people have given pretty good ideas for the latter.


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## gato radioso

Aquelarre would be my choice.


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## Mister Draken

"Pandemonio".


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## FromPA

The Newt said:


> "That circus" might work, if what's wanted is a dismissive way to refer to an event.


Good one.  Even more despectivo would be “freak show.”


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