# Hindi/Urdu: shakkar, khaanD



## Wolverine9

What's the difference in meaning between shakkar and khaanD in Hindi/Urdu?  Can either shakkar or khaanD be used synonymously with chini (refined sugar)?  Do those terms mean different things in other regional languages such as Punjabi?  I'll appreciate an explanation on this because when doing an online search or checking dictionaries, there seem to be a lot of inconsistencies about this.

Thanks.


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## greatbear

"khaanD" is brown sugar crystals: the raw form obtained from sugarcane processing. "shakkar" and "chiinii" can be synonymous, though usually "chiinii" is used for fine (refined) sugar, whereas shakkar is just the generic term for any kind of sugar (thus both "khaanD" and "chiinii" being types of "shakkar"). There is also "booraa": brown, fine sugar.


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## Wolverine9

greatbear said:


> "khaanD" is brown sugar crystals: the raw form obtained from sugarcane processing. "shakkar" and "chiinii" can be synonymous, though usually "chiinii" is used for fine (refined) sugar, whereas shakkar is just the generic term for any kind of sugar (thus both "khaanD" and "chiinii" being types of "shakkar"). There is also "booraa": brown, fine sugar.



So then is jaggery powder (guR powder) the same as khaanD or booraa?


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## greatbear

No, jaggery is the traditional, unrefined product (and not in crystal or powder form); "booraa" is another refined form of sugar (brown; in contrast, "chiinii" is the white product). guR powder would be rather called shakkar.


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## Wolverine9

greatbear said:


> No, jaggery is the traditional, unrefined product (and not in crystal or powder form); "booraa" is another refined form of sugar (brown; in contrast, "chiinii" is the white product). guR powder would be rather called shakkar.



So even though shakkar is a generic word for sugar, does it refer to guR powder more so than the other forms?  And both booraa and chiinii are refined sugars, while khaanD is unrefined, correct?


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## greatbear

Wolverine9 said:


> So even though shakkar is a generic word for sugar, does it refer to guR powder more so than the other forms?



Technically, yes; but "shakkar" is a common generic word for any kind of sugar, too. "Aap chaae meiN kitnii shakkar lete haiN" = "aap chaae meiN kitne chammach chiinii lete haiN" = how much sugar (spoons of sugar) do you have in tea? (Strangely, I have only heard units like "chammach" with chiinii, never with shakkar.)



Wolverine9 said:


> And both booraa and chiinii are refined sugars, while khaanD is unrefined, correct?



Yes.


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## Wolverine9

greatbear said:


> Technically, yes; but "shakkar" is a common generic word for any kind of sugar, too. "Aap chaae meiN kitnii shakkar lete haiN" = "aap chaae meiN kitne chammach chiinii lete haiN" = how much sugar (spoons of sugar) do you have in tea? (Strangely, I have only heard units like "chammach" with chiinii, never with shakkar.)



That's interesting.  The response would be the same, though, regardless of whether you say shakkar or chiinii in the question, right?  Eg. "do chammach".

Thanks for clarifying all of this.


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## greatbear

Wolverine9 said:


> The response would be the same, though, regardless of whether you say shakkar or chiinii in the question, right?  Eg. "do chammach".



Yes, the response would be the same  Meanwhile, there are some people who prefer to put booraa in the tea rather than shakkar or chiinii. The question would still say shakkar though, even if the actual item used is booraa. However, "aap chaae meiN booraa pasand kareNge yaa chiinii?"

And, oh, there is also _mishrii_: sugar crystals (could be processed or unprocessed).


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## Faylasoof

Wolverine9 said:


> What's the difference in meaning between shakkar and khaanD in Hindi/Urdu? Can either shakkar or khaanD be used synonymously with chini (refined sugar)? Do those terms mean different things in other regional languages such as Punjabi? I'll appreciate an explanation on this because when doing an online search or checking dictionaries, there seem to be a lot of inconsistencies about this.
> 
> Thanks.



Here is more to it!



> ...(Strangely, I have only heard units like "chammach" with chiinii, never with shakkar.)


_The word chamchah / chamchaa _(our preference for the word _chammach_ – also quite common) _is routinely used in our speech with shakar! 
_Incidentally, both _shakar_ and _shakkar_ are accepted pronunciations but we say _shakar_.

شکر _shakar_, _shakkar_, or शकर _śakar_, and शक्कर _śakkar_, vulg. _sakkar_ [S. शर्करा], s.f. Sugar; (_met._) sweet words or speech:—_shakar-afshānī_, s.f. The scattering of sugar; (_met._) uttering of sweet words, sweet speech:—

In our Urdu (i.e. _lakhnavii _Urdu, but I guess true also of _dehlavii_ Urdu too) _chiinii_ refers to a Chinese person or Chinese language:

چيني चीनी _ćīnī_ [S. चीन+ईयः], adj. & s.m. Of or belonging to China, produced in China, Chinese;—a Chinese or Chinaman (=_ćīnā_);—s.f. White or coarse sugar (cf. _mi__ṣ__rī_, fr. _mi__ṣ__r_); china-ware, porcelain; (hence) the face of a watch;—the Chinese language:—_ćīnī-kā bartan_, s.m. China-ware, porcelain; crockery.

We don’t ever use _chiinii_ for _shakar_ but I’ve heard it commonly enough, esp. on the western side of UP where _chiinii_ often means sugar as well. 

Jaggery or raw sugar is indeed _guR_:

گڙ गुड़ _gu__ṛ_ [Prk. गुडो; S. गुडः], s.m. Raw or coarse sugar (the produce of the first inspissation of the juice of the sugar-cane); molasses, treacle:—_gu__ṛ__-ambā_ or _gu__ṛ__-āmbā_ (S. _gu__ḍ__a_+_āmra_), s.m. Mangoes boiled with meal and sugar (resembling mango-fool):—_gu__ṛ__-pushp_, or _gu__ṛ__-phūl_, s.m. The plant _Bassia latifolia_ (see _mahuʼā_):—_gu__ṛ__-dhānī_, s.f. Parched wheat and sugar:—_gu__ṛ__-kī bhelī_, A lump of raw sugar
_
khanD_ or _khaanD_ is coarse sugar :

کهانڐ खांड _khā__ṅḍ_, vulg. _khā__ṅṛ_ [Prk. खंडं; S. खण्डः], s.f.m.(?), Coarse sugar (sugar clarified and the syrup then gradually boiled down to a hard consistence);—a channel (from a well to a field):—_khā__ṅḍ__-sārī_, s.m. A sugar-boiler, sugar-manufacturer:—_khā__ṅḍ__-sāl_, s.f. Sugar-factory:—_khā__ṅḍ__ galānā_, To boil down sugar to a hard consistence, to crystallize sugar:—_kaććī khā__ṅḍ_, s.f. Raw or uncrystallized sugar.

Derived from _khanD_ is _qand _and that is used very commonly but refers to crystallized sugar:

قند _qand_ (the arab. form of P. کنه _kand_ = S. खण्ड _kha__ṇḍ_), s.m. White crystallized sugar; loaf-sugar (_not_ sugar-candy, which is termed _mi__ṣ__rī_);—(loc.) coarse brown sugar, molasses, treacle (cf. _khā__ṅḍ_, or _khā__ṅṛ_);—s.f. A kind of cloth, Turkey red.

BTW, we also have _qalaa-qand_ but that is a sweet-meat! Lucknow was once famous for its _qalaad-qand_! You also find good _qalaa-qand_ in Delhi and Karachi!


> ...And, oh, there is also _mishrii_: sugar crystals (could be processed or unprocessed).



… and the term is actually _miSrii_ derived form _miSr _= Egypt in Arabic:

مصري _mi__ṣ__rī_ (rel. n. fr. _mi__ṣ__r_), adj. & s.m. Of or relating to Egypt, Egyptian;—a native of Egypt, an Egyptian;—s.f. Egyptian sugar, sugar-candy;—a hunting-knife; a kind of sword:—_mi__ṣ__rī-kā kūza_, A cup-shaped lump of sugar-candy;—(_met._) a sweet melon:—_mi__ṣ__rī khilānā_ (-_ko_), To give (one) a taste of the _mi__ṣ__rī_ or 'sword,' to stab;—to betroth (by giving sugar-candy to eat).

Its “corrupt” _written_ form is:
مسري मिसी or मिसरी _misrī_, adj. &c., corr. of مصري _mi__ṣ__rī_, q.v.

Pronunciation-wise both _miSrii _and _misrii_ would sound the same in Urdu. To be honest I haven’t come across _mishrii _until now. I guess this is how the word is pronounced in some areas.

Also, _buuraa_ for sugar is hardly used in our speech though I do know the word: 
بورا बूरा _būrā_ [S. पुट or मुट+कः], s.m. Powder (=_buknī_); saw-dust, filings (particularly of wood); coarse sugar (syn. _khā__ṅṛ_); white sugar (=_ćīnī_).


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## tonyspeed

This thread may also interest you: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1486637


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## Wolverine9

tonyspeed said:


> This thread may also interest you: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1486637



Actually, that article is incorrect.  Sugar (the word and the food item) didn't originate in China.  It's indigenous to India and SE Asia.  The earliest source of the word is the Sanskrit 'sharkaraa'.  One should be careful about such sources as the above since it contradicts mainstream scholarship and evidence.  The Chinese learnt the craft of sugar making from the Indians and Persians, and China has never been famous for sugar production, which is why it's peculiar that the Hindi/Urdu of Delhi uses the term 'chiinii' where as Lakhnavi Urdu and other languages usually do not.  Perhaps there was a sugar shortage at some time and sugar began to be imported from China after the Chinese had started making it, thus giving rise to the term 'chiinii'.


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## Wolverine9

Thanks for the detailed info, Faylasoof.  So it seems 'booraa' can be used for a few different forms of sugar (ie. khaanD, chiinii, and also the brown, fine sugar mentnioned by greatbear), right?  For ordinary table sugar is 'shakar' the prevailing term in Lakhnavi Urdu?  What term do you use for guR powder or are they both interchangeably called 'shakar'?


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## Wolverine9

greatbear said:


> Yes, the response would be the same  Meanwhile, there are some people who prefer to put booraa in the tea rather than shakkar or chiinii. The question would still say shakkar though, even if the actual item used is booraa. However, "aap chaae meiN booraa pasand kareNge yaa chiinii?"
> 
> And, oh, there is also _mishrii_: sugar crystals (could be processed or unprocessed).



I also came aross the term laal shakkar.  Is that the same thing as guR shakkar (guR powder)?


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## Qureshpor

My experience from the Punjab is that "khanD" (khaanD) and "chiinii" were both sugar but both could be split into two...desii khanD/chiinii (local, home produced sugar and it was brown) vs vilaayatii khanD/chiinii(foreign/British which was, white).

shakkar was powdry brown substance as if "guR" had been coarsely ground up. The only "buuraa" I knew was "saw-dust". We pronounced "misrii" as "mishrii". The only "qand" that I was aware of in my childhood was "gul-qand". There were a variety of "guR"s and two types of sugar cane.


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## tonyspeed

Wolverine9 said:


> Perhaps there was a sugar shortage at some time and sugar began to be imported from China after the Chinese had started making it, thus giving rise to the term 'chiinii'.



Your suggestion contradicts mainstream scholarship and evidence.




Wolverine9 said:


> China has never been famous for sugar production,



Taxes
from _The Travels of Marco Polo_ The Great Yearly Revenue The Great Khan Receives From Hangchow      Now I will tell you about the great revenue the Great Khan draws every year from the     said city of Kinsay (Hangchow) and its territory, which forms a ninth of the country. 
     First there is the salt, which brings in a great revenue. For its produces every year,     in round numbers, a vast sum of money! (This province, you see, adjoins the ocean, on the     shores of which are many lagoons or salt marshes, in which the sea-water dries up during     the summer time; and thence they extract such a quantity of salt as suffices for the     supply of five of the kingdoms of Manzi (South China) besides this one.) 

*In this city and its dependencies they make great quantities of sugar, as indeed they     do in the other eight divisions of the country; so that I believe the whole of the rest of     the world together does not produce such a quantity, at least, if that be true which many     people have told me; and the sugar alone again produces an enormous revenue. *All spices     pay three and a third percent on the value; and all merchandise likewise pays three and a     third percent. (But sea-borne goods from India and other distant countries pay 10     percent.) The rice-wine also makes a great return, as does coal, of which there is a great     quantity; and so do the twelve guilds of craftsmen that I told you of, with their 12,000     stations apiece, for they must pay tax on every article they make. The silk which is     produced in such abundance brings an immense return since they must pay 10 percent on it     or more as on many other articles.


http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/china/trad/marco.htm


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## Wolverine9

tonyspeed said:


> Your suggestion contradicts mainstream scholarship and evidence.



Well, it's just a guess.  There aren't many possible explanations as to why the term sugar was erroneously given the name chiinii.  Another guess would be that perhaps the British set up sugar refining factories in their Chinese territories, imported raw sugar from India, refined it in China, and exported it back to India.  They did a similar thing with cotton.


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## tonyspeed

Another source says the following:

"How was crystalline sugar produced?  Sugarcane was first crushed to give  juice.  The juice was then boiled, and the scum that rose to the  surface was skimmed off.  The sediment was allowed to cool, drain and  dry, resulting in granulated crystals which was purplish black in  colour.  

The dark colour of the sugar is associated with  impurities.  Sugar refining means the removal of impurities.  In the  history of sugar refining in India, limestone and ash were variously  added during the heating process to purify the sugar by precipitation.   Milk, coconut juice and flour were also used whereby impurities were  removed through coagulation or thickening.  The outcome was sugar with a  brownish or yellowish tint.  

Except for some parts in the  south, sugarcane was not common in China.  Refined sugar was brought in  from India along the same route as Buddhism.  China was so impressed  that in the 7th century, the second emperor of the Tang  dynasty, Li Shimin, sent craftsmen to India to learn the way to refine  sugar.  For hundreds of years thereafter, China adopted similar  techniques described above to refine sugar, but in the meantime the use  of eggs, a good coagulator, seemed to bring sugar purity to a higher  level.

During the Arab Agricultural Revolution which started in the 8th  century, it was discovered that the use of ash from burnt trees was  very effective in producing sugar with an even lighter colour, though  not exactly white.  The technique was brought to China by the time of  the Yuan dynasty (13th century), as reported by Marco Polo in his travel log.  

_A breakthrough in sugar refining in China occurred during the 16th  century when it was inadvertently discovered that mudwater was capable  of producing pure white sugar --- so much so that by the end of the Ming  dynasty (early 17th century) sugar was exported to Europe through the East India Company. _"


http://www.hko.gov.hk/blog/en/archives/00000038.htm

(By the way, China's sugar production was pre-British invasion)

I assume chiinii originally refered to the newly discovered white, refined sugar probably exported by traders into India and other parts of the world.


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## Faylasoof

Wolverine9 said:


> Thanks for the detailed info, Faylasoof.  So it seems 'booraa' can be used for a few different forms of sugar (ie. khaanD, chiinii, and also the brown, fine sugar mentnioned by greatbear), right?  For ordinary table sugar is 'shakar' the prevailing term in Lakhnavi Urdu?  What term do you use for guR powder or are they both interchangeably called 'shakar'?


 Welcome Wolverine! 

_buuraa _is used that way by others but not by us!  We don’t use it at all. Yes! The most common word for sugar in our speech is _shakar_:

_sufaid shakar_  سفید شکر  =  white sugar
_surx shakar_ سرخ شکر  / shakar-e-surx شکر سرخ / _laal shakar_ لال شکر  (= red sugar) = brown sugar ! But also, _b*h*uurii shakar_  بھوری شکر = brown sugar.

[_b_*h*_uuraa_ (masc.) / _b_*h*_uurii _(fem.) = brown; _shakar_ is feminine!]

_khanD / khaanD_ is also not that common for us though we of course very well know what it is. _qand _for sugar is also not really used commonly though _qalaa-qand_ we love! While _miSrii_ is used only for special occasions.

Powdered _guR_ is still _guR_ for us. But some might emphasize by saying _guR shakar_!

As is obvious from other replies, we are looking at regional differences for the various terms used for sugar.


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## Wolverine9

Faylasoof said:


> Welcome Wolverine!
> 
> _buuraa _is used that way by others but not by us!  We don’t use it at all. Yes! The most common word for sugar in our speech is _shakar_:
> 
> _sufaid shakar_  سفید شکر  =  white sugar
> _surx shakar_ سرخ شکر  / shakar-e-surx شکر سرخ / _laal shakar_ لال شکر  (= red sugar) = brown sugar ! But also, _b*h*uurii shakar_  بھوری شکر = brown sugar.
> 
> [_b_*h*_uuraa_ (masc.) / _b_*h*_uurii _(fem.) = brown; _shakar_ is feminine!]
> 
> _khanD / khaanD_ is also not that common for us though we of course very well know what it is. _qand _for sugar is also not really used commonly though _qalaa-qand_ we love! While _miSrii_ is used only for special occasions.
> 
> Powdered _guR_ is still _guR_ for us. But some might emphasize by saying _guR shakar_!
> 
> As is obvious from other replies, we are looking at regional differences for the various terms used for sugar.



Is laal/surx/bhuurii shakar the same thing as khaanD in Lakhnavi Urdu since they both seem to be an unrefined brown sugar in Hindi/Urdu usage?

Also, you pronounce the word for 'white' as sufaid rather than safed?

Platts says qand is "white crystallized sugar".  Does that mean qand is the same as white, refined table sugar?


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## greatbear

I think "bhoorii shakkar" might be the same as "booraa": the latter could have got the "h" elided in colloquial pronunciation (I personally am hearing for the first time these lal, surkh and bhoorii shakkars). I have never seen a white "booraa", so that earlier entry from Platts is very interesting. In several households of western Uttar Pradesh (including Lucknow, as I too have family there), in several recipes, if someone insists on "booraa" as an ingredient, one doesn't add the white sugar. Probably, "booraa" isn't used that much in certain Lakhnavi circles, but it doesn't apply to the whole of Lucknow - can hardly be, as most shops in UP sell "booraa".

As for qand, I only knew of qalaa-qand and gul-qand so far; of course, there is the similarly-sounding "kand", which means "tuber". "khaanD" is heavily used in certain regions of India, especially rural areas and in places like Rajasthan and Gujarat, too, being not just part of Hindi but also of several other languages. Meanwhile, "khanD" in Hindi means blocks, whence I presume "khaanD" (blocks of sugar), especially after QP's post, in which he does use "khanD" as well for "khaanD". As for chiinii/shakkar, "shakkar" is the more common word among Urdu speakers, whereas "chiinii" is the much more predominant word among Hindi speakers, though many speakers of course use both (like I use both the words). In many other Indian languages, there are close variants of "shakkar", being a Sanskrit-derived word ("saakar" in Gujarati, "sharkaraa" in some Dravidian languages, etc.) - so overall, the word is more widely understood in India.


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## greatbear

As for sawdust, we use "buraadaa".


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> I think "bhoorii shakkar" might be the same as "booraa": the latter could have got the "h" elided in colloquial pronunciation (I personally am hearing for the first time these lal, surkh and bhoorii shakkars).


 I don't think so! That is because you don't know our speech!! 


greatbear said:


> I
> In several households of western Uttar Pradesh (including Lucknow, as I too have family there), in several recipes, if someone insists on "booraa" as an ingredient, one doesn't add the white sugar. Probably, "booraa" isn't used that much in certain Lakhnavi circles, but it doesn't apply to the whole of Lucknow - can hardly be, as most shops in UP sell "booraa".
> 
> As for qand, I only knew of qalaa-qand and gul-qand so far; of course, there is the similarly-sounding "kand", which means "tuber". "khaanD" is heavily used in certain regions of India, especially rural areas and in places like Rajasthan and Gujarat, too, being not just part of Hindi but also of several other languages. Meanwhile, "khanD" in Hindi means blocks, whence I presume "khaanD" (blocks of sugar), especially after QP's post, in which he does use "khanD" as well for "khaanD". As for chiinii/shakkar, "shakkar" is the more common word among Urdu speakers, whereas "chiinii" is the much more predominant word among Hindi speakers, though many speakers of course use both (like I use both the words). In many other Indian languages, there are close variants of "shakkar", being a Sanskrit-derived word ("saakar" in Gujarati, "sharkaraa" in some Dravidian languages, etc.) - so overall, the word is more widely understood in India.


The points I made above are about _lakhanvii Urdu_ – once prevalent as a street language compared to now. The current street language has changed considerably over the last 40-50 years. Not surprising given that large numbers of peoples of diverse origins that have come to live there. Besides, as I’ve mentioned before, Awadhi has also always been part of the _lakhnavi _scene but that doesn’t constitute _lakhnavii Urdu _either!

In our speech, meaning in _lakhnavi Urdu_, _buuraa_ is not used! Period. _Neither is khaanD / khanD a common word_ referring to sugar! We of course know both words.

You are also wrong about _chiinii _being much more predominant word among Hindi speakers since in Pakistan where Urdu has been established now for decades, I've head more _chiinii _than_ shakar _for sugar!


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> As for sawdust, we use "buraadaa".


 We are discussing _shakar / khanD (khaanD)_ not sawdust and this word (براده _buraadah = sawdust_) is not used for sugar in powdered form either. We might be going off-topic here!


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## Faylasoof

Wolverine9 said:


> Is laal/surx/bhuurii shakar the same thing as khaanD in Lakhnavi Urdu since they both seem to be an unrefined brown sugar in Hindi/Urdu usage?
> 
> Also, you pronounce the word for 'white' as sufaid rather than safed?
> 
> Platts says qand is "white crystallized sugar". Does that mean qand is the same as white, refined table sugar?


Is laal/surx/bhuurii shakar the same thing as khaanD in Lakhnavi Urdu? Possibly, though as I said we don’t really use the latter to man brown sugar.

قند _qand_ = white, coarse-grained, crystallized sugar. Not fine-grained like table sugar.

We have a thread on sufaid (sufayd) / safed etc. here


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## Sheikh_14

Is desi shakar just another word for brown sugar or is it another term for Jaagrii/ Gur? By the way does the English word jaggery derive from the Urdu/Hindi Jaagrii or is it the other way round with Jaagri being a corruption of the former?


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## eskandar

Sheikh_14 said:


> By the way does the English word jaggery derive from the Urdu/Hindi Jaagrii or is it the other way round with Jaagri being a corruption of the former?


From the Oxford English Dictionary: jaggery
*Etymology:*  < Indo-Portuguese _jágara_, _jagra_, _jagre_, < Kannada _sharkare_ , Urdu _shakkar_ , Sanskrit _çarkarā_ 
Therefore we can say that the word _jaagri_ is from the English 'jaggery' which is itself ultimately of Indic origins.


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## mundiya

Sheikh_14 said:


> Is desi shakar just another word for brown sugar or is it another term for Jaagrii/ Gur?



shak(k)ar can mean different things.  Much of it depends on the region/language.  In Punjabi, as you may know, shakkar is a type of raw sugar_.  _Basically, it's guR (or something similar) ground into a powder.  In other places it can mean regular sugar, which we call khaND.


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## Qureshpor

mundiya said:


> shak(k)ar can mean different things.  Much of it depends on the region/language.  In Punjabi, as you may know, shakkar is a type of raw sugar_.  _Basically, it's guR (or something similar) ground into a powder.  In other places it can mean regular sugar, which we call khaND.


I agree and have expressed similar views in post 14.


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