# wbrew pozorom



## guniang

Hi,
How can I say 'wbrew pozorom' in English? Does 'contrary to appearances' exist? can't find it anywhere...


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## LilianaB

I think it could be just regardless, in certain contexts. Can you provide more context. Against all odds, would be another possibility, depending on context.


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## guniang

The context is: Europa jest w kryzysie. Nie pierwszy raz. Ale też nie ostatni. Jedynym rozsądnym rozwiązaniem jest więcej integracji. Wbrew pozorom nie brakuje zwolenników takiej opcji.


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## Tazzler

I think it's fine.


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## LilianaB

Regardless of the expectations, there are a lot of supporters of this option.


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## majlo

"Regardless of" doesn't mean "wbrew pozorom".
I would say "Despite appearances..." or "Contrary to appearances...".


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## dreamlike

_In spite of appearances_ or _contrary to appearances_ are my guesses. You may find it useful to post this on English forum to find out which phrase is most common, and natural, to native's ears.


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## guniang

OK, that's a good idea. Thanks!


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## Thomas1

majlo said:


> "Regardless of" doesn't mean "wbrew pozorom".[...]


I am wondering if 'regardless of expectations" can mean this. 'wbrew pozorom' can mean 'wbrew oczekiwaniom', no?


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## LilianaB

We would have to establish what pozór means in this context. Contrary to what is generally believed, maybe? Contrary to what may be generally believed, another option.


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## Thomas1

Well, to me 'wbrew pozorom' literally means 'contrary to appearances', i.e. contrary to whay you can see. However, if you see a situation then you naturally expect something to happen (oczekiwać), so 'wbrew oczekiwaniom' can work as a substitute for 'wbrew pozorom'. The former seems to me a bit more personal while the latter impersonal, because a person 'oczekuje', but a situation 'stwarza pozory'.


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## guniang

Thomas1 said:


> if you see a situation then you naturally expect something to happen (oczekiwać), so 'wbrew oczekiwaniom' can work as a substitute for 'wbrew pozorom'. .



I don't think 'wbrew oczekiwaniom' can substitute for 'wbrew pozorom'. Here, we don't assume anything (nie zakładamy niczego, I mean), but we just notice that something is different that it would have seemed to be ( zauważamy że coś jest inne, niż można było przypuszczać, że jest, I mean, don't know if i have put it down right in English )


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## LilianaB

Can you paraphrase your sentence in Polish, Guniang.


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## guniang

Europa jest w kryzysie.   Idea integracji ma nadal sporo zwolenników, chociaż można by przypuszczać, że będzie więcej przeciwników tej idei (ponieważ przeciwnicy tej idei są bardziej aktywni).


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## LilianaB

I think you can use expectations here, or commonly acccepted beliefs. To tell you honestly, the phrase is a kind of clinche, and does not mean that much. It is more important to convey the meaning than to worry about translationg the phrase itself.


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## guniang

Maybe you are right, I  will provide two versions, then. Thank you very much for your involvement.


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## guniang

So, finally (I hope): 
Europe is in crisis. Not for the  first  and not for the last time. The only reasonable solution is to integrate more. Contrary to what one  could have expected / contrary to appearances,  supporters of the option of enhanced integration are anything but scant.


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## LilianaB

I think it is fine. Maybe complete integration, not enhanced. Do they really want to integrate Europe and create one country like the US? OT.


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## guniang

I don't know yet,  haven't red the full polish text yet, but apparently they want more integration, maybe to achieve something between EU and US in terms of federated country


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## JarekSteliga

"...wbrew pozorom..." in this context means to me that appearances are misleading and those who form their opinions on them are in for a surprise. 

Consequently I would translate "...wbrew pozorom..." as "...surprisingly..."

"Surprisingly, the supporters of this option are anything but few and far between"

"Suprisingly, the supporters of this option are not in short supply"

"Contrary to appearances" sounds to me a bit ... longwinded.


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## LilianaB

Surprisingly is a great word here.


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## sorghum

Cześć, to jest moja propozycja:

Europe is in crisis. Not for the first time, nor for the last. Further integration is the only reasonable solution. Supporters of such an option are, somewhat surpisingly, not in short supply.


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## Ben Jamin

LilianaB said:


> Surprisingly is a great word here.


But it does not mean "wbrew pozorom". The correct translation into English IS "contrary to appearances", even if it may sound bookish in English. All other proposals change the meaning. Something "contrary to appearances" is usually also "surprising", but it is not the same.


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## LilianaB

_Surprisingly_ is a perfect word here. _Wbre pozorom_ is such a vague term  that it can mean many things, but not _contrary to_ _appearances _in this context.


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## dreamlike

It's true that "wbrew pozorom" can be translated into English in numerous ways, depending on the context, but it *does* mean "contrary to appearances" in this particular context. 

*Wbrew pozorom nie brakuje zwolenników takiej opcji.*
the appearances are that there are few supporters of such solution (even more integration) 
But, contrary to appearances, there is a lot of people who support this solution.

That is not to say it's "contrary to apperances" that should be employed in this sentence. If I were to translate this sentence slavishly, I'd probably use it, but I like the version with "surprisingly" very much, too.


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## Ben Jamin

Ben Jamin said:


> But it does not mean "wbrew pozorom". The correct translation into English IS "contrary to appearances", even if it may sound bookish in English. All other proposals change the meaning. Something "contrary to appearances" is usually also "surprising", but it is not the same.



Sorry, you are wrong. You can’t change facts, even if you don’t like them.


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## LilianaB

Please look for the usage of contrary to appearances in any reliable newspaper article, how it is used. I doubt you will too many examples.


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## majlo

I like the version with 'surprisingly' too, and I doubt whether it changes the meaning to such an extent that it distorts the source text completely. If I were the translator, I'd go for the 'surprisingly' version.


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## dreamlike

LilianaB said:


> Please look for the usage of contrary to appearances in any reliable newspaper article, how it is used. I doubt you will too many examples.



Liliana, I rest my case after the point I made in post #25
Can your refer to what I have written in this post? Can you explain to me why do you think "Contrary to appearances" would not be appropriate translation in this context? The truth is, this phrase is not very popular with journalists in the first place, but it's used in the similar way in the examples I've found.


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## LilianaB

The construction is not popular at all; this  is true. There is something unnatural about it, hard to describe. In English it would be usually rephrased as _contrary to what appears_, _contrary to general beliefs_, _against expectations_.


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## dreamlike

There are plenty of alternatives to choose from, that's right, and I'd go for one of them instead of saying/writing "contrary to apperances" - I don't like it very much, too. That being said, native speakers don't seem to have any reservations about it, judging by their posts in the thread you started.


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## LilianaB

There is also individual taste, not only what is grammatically correct versus what is not.


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