# Persian: قدر آینه بدانیم چو هست



## aisha93

Salaam

Please can you give me the exact and literal English translation of چو here:

قدر آینه بدانیم چو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست

Thanks


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## Qureshpor

aisha93 said:


> Salaam
> 
> Please can you give me the exact and literal English translation of چو here:
> 
> قدر آینه بدانیم* چو* هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست
> 
> Thanks



Let us know the worth of a mirror *as* it is
Not at the time when it falls and breaks


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## aisha93

Couldn't mean "as long as"?


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## Qureshpor

Classial "cho" (modern chuu) is a contraction of "chuun" which can mean "like", "what", "how", "when" and "why". But, here it means as/like. I don't see the "as long as" meaning in this particular couplet.


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## darush

قدر آینه بدانیم* چو* هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست

*تا وقتیکه، تا زمانیکه، مادامیکه*​


aisha93 said:


> Couldn't mean "as long as"?


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## Aryamp

I also agree with Darush. It definitely means 'as long as'  or perhaps better said in English ' while' .  "*as *it is" implies _the way it is _which is obviously not the case here. 
The second part of the couplet clarifies the meaning : 

We must appreciate the mirror while it exists, not after it has fallen and shattered.


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## Qureshpor

I would n't wish to argue with you two learned gentleman but I still feel "cho/chuu" implies "resemblence" and not "duration".

To use aaqaa-ye-Aryamp's wording..

We must appreciate the mirror in its original (whole) state (cho hast), not in the broken state after its fall.


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## darush

QP SaaHib, this is a different matter(mirror!) nothing to do with 'reflecting/telling the truth'.
(and again, confusing Farsi prepositions!)


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## IMANAKBARI

تا می سوزه چراغم بیا بگیر سراغم 



darush said:


> قدر آینه بدانیم* چو* هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست
> 
> *تا وقتیکه، تا زمانیکه، مادامیکه*​


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## aisha93

Thank you all. 

قدر آینه بدانیمچو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست
Now I'm sure it means "while/as long as", because هست means  (to exist) which is a temporary existence for the mirror before it  breaks, whereas است means (to be) which refers to the unchanging and  permanent substance of something , and also the second part mentions  "time وقت", so" چو" must imply duration here

This can be confirmed by searching in Dehkhoda:

*چو: || (ق زمان ) بمعنی هنگام باشد. (برهان ). وقتی که . هنگامی که . (ناظم الاطباء). آنگاه که . زمانی که . گاهی که . بدانگاه که *


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## Qureshpor

aisha93 said:


> Thank you all.
> 
> قدر آینه بدانیمچو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست
> Now I'm sure it means "while/as long as", because هست means (to exist) which is a temporary existence for the mirror before it breaks, whereas است means (to be) which refers to the unchanging and permanent substance of something , and also the second part mentions "time وقت", so" چو" must imply duration here
> 
> This can be confirmed by searching in Dehkhoda:
> 
> *چو: || (ق زمان ) بمعنی هنگام باشد. (برهان ). وقتی که . هنگامی که . (ناظم الاطباء). آنگاه که . زمانی که . گاهی که . بدانگاه که *


To me, this is "when" not "while".


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## aisha93

QURESHPOR said:


> To me, this is "when" not "while".



You're right, "when" fits better here.


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## Qureshpor

darush said:


> QP SaaHib, this is a different matter(mirror!) nothing to do with 'reflecting/telling the truth'.
> (and again, confusing Farsi prepositions!)


I am sorry aaqaa-ye-darush but I don't quite follow. My concern is not with any deep meaning of the lines but just superficial meaning. As far as I know "aa'iinah" means "mirror". What Farsi preposition am I confusing?


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## Qureshpor

IMANAKBARI said:


> تا می سوزه چراغم بیا بگیر سراغم


Could you please clarify the message of your post. Are you saying "taa" in your line is the same as "chuu"?


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## IMANAKBARI

QURESHPOR said:


> Could you please clarify the message of your post. Are you saying "taa" in your line is the same as "chuu"?


No, it is indeed a poem which means exactly the same thing that Aisha93. (excuse me for my bad english )


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## Aryamp

IMANAKBARI said:


> No, it is indeed a poem which means exactly the same thing that Aisha93. (excuse me for my bad english )



I think by 'exactly the same thing' you mean it also talks about appreciating something while it lasts, other than that it's not relevant really .


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## IMANAKBARI

Aryamp said:


> I think by 'exactly the same thing' you mean it also talks about appreciating something while it lasts, other than that it's not relevant really .



بله, در واقع منظورم این بود که معنا و مفهوم این دو شعر یکی است و هر دو یه جورایی می خوان بگن که قدرهرچیز رو تا زمانیکه هست و وجود داره باید دانست و وقتی از بین رفت دیگه سودی در بزرگداشت اون چیز نیست
من به محض اینکه چشمم به این بحث افتاد, ناخودآگاه یاد این جمله افتادم و گفتم گفتنش ضرر نداره
​


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## Aryamp

QURESHPOR said:


> To me, this is "when" not "while".





aisha93 said:


> You're right, "when" fits better here.



_When _in english can also mean _'while'  . _ it's wrong to take one rigid meaning of an English word then adhere to it as the only equivalent a very rigid interpretation of another word in Persian.

زمانی که   وقتی که  can signify _when , while, the time  etc

_


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## aisha93

What would be the meaning of چو here?
رفتی *چو *تیر وکمان شد
از بار غم پیکر من

It is taken from شجریان song.


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## darush

You went(have gone) *like *an arrow and...


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## aisha93

Thank you. But the singer stops after "shod": رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد، از بار غم پیکر من..I don't understand it!
I have a problem with the whole sentence, can you give a simple and literal translation?

There are the verses which precede and follow it:

عشق تو در دل نهان شد
دل زار و تن ناتوان شد

*رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد
از بار غم پیکر من*


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## Qureshpor

aisha93 said:


> Thank you. But the singer stops after "shod": رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد، از بار غم پیکر من..I don't understand it!
> I have a problem with the whole sentence, can you give a simple and literal translation?
> 
> There are the verses which precede and follow it:


Here is the full Ghazal by Safa Isfahani (Hidden Love)

http://saadia.blogfa.com/post/23


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Here is the full Ghazal by Safa Isfahani (Hidden Love)
> 
> http://saadia.blogfa.com/post/23


It is good you provided the link as Aisha93 has quoted more verses than the quota allow and we know what can happen if the moderators spot it.

It says the poet is Muhammad Isfahani, not Safa?


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> It is good you provided the link as Aisha93 has quoted more verses than the quota allow and we know what can happen if the moderators spot it.
> 
> It says the poet is Muhammad Isfahani, not Safa?


Muhammad Safa Isfahani or Safa Muhammad Isfahani. I am sure I read "Safa Isfahani" in one of the links.


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## marrish

^ I hope you will excuse me for this question. I have only opened your link not the others.


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## Qureshpor

aisha93 said:


> Thank you. But the singer stops after "shod": رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد، از بار غم پیکر من..I don't understand it!
> I have a problem with the whole sentence, can you give a simple and literal translation?
> 
> There are the verses which precede and follow it:
> 
> عشق تو در دل نهان شد
> دل زار و تن ناتوان شد
> 
> *رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد
> از بار غم پیکر من*



You went like an arrow (never to return) and with the burden of my sorrow, my body became (bent) like a bow!


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## Hoori

Here are a few example to demonstrate the difference between the meaning of چو when used in different contexts:

چو = تا زمانی که = تا وقتی که 
= while = as long as
قدر آیینه بدانیم *چو *هست ---> lets appreciate the mirror *while* it exists, not when it falls and gets broken.

چو = مثل = همچون = مانند
= like
در بحر فتاده ام *چو* ماهی ---> I'm drown in the sea *like* a fish.

چو = تا = وقتی = به محض اینکه
= when = as soon as
...چو سهرابِ جنگاور او را بدید ---> when the brave Sohrab saw him ...


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## Hoori

QURESHPOR said:


> You went like an arrow (never to return) and with the burden of my sorrow, my body became (bent) like a bow!



Yup. You left me like an arrow (leaves a bow) and the sorrow (your leaving brought to me) was so big that it bent me like a bow.


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## aisha93

Thank you all.



> رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد
> از بار غم پیکر من
> You went like an arrow (never to return) and with the burden of my sorrow, my body became (bent) like a bow!



I'm afraid of sounding stupid, but in this (simile تشبيه), the "المُشَبّهُ بهِ = تیر وکمان" seems to be used twice for two different "مُشَبّه" which are "رفتن" and "پیکر", am I right?

because that is how you translated


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## Qureshpor

^ 
raftii chu tiir

You went like an arrow

o-kamaan shud az baar-i-Gham, paikar-i-man

​and my body became a bow from the weight of sorrow

The simile applies to "going" and the metaphor applies to the "bending". The "secret" to understanding this verse is by not thing of "tiir-o-kamaan" as a compound.


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## darush

QURESHPOR said:


> You went like an arrow
> ​and my body became a bow from the weight of sorrow


Bravo...SaaHib QP, you are really a Genius!


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