# Pontos



## parakseno

Geia ksana!

 Lots of questions today, huh?  Hope it's the right forum... I'd like to ask which region does Pontus refer to? Is it the area around the Black Sea (Eukseinos Pontos) in general or to a particular region?

parakseno


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## anthodocheio

I'm very happy I found this for you. There is also a map in it.

I just saw that that page has at least two orthografic mistakes.


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## parakseno

I asked about this because I've heard a song from "Pontos" called "*Πάρθεν η Ρωμανία*". I didn't make much out of the song until I found the lyrics and I  originally thought it was something about Romania... I know it's called "Ρουμανία" in Greek and since the song is in Pontic I thought it might be the "Pontic way" to say it... There is a quite large Greek comunity in Romania at the Black Sea and there were Greek colonies from ancient times in Dobrogea region. I thought it was a song from this area.

But then again, I found the lyrics and I see it's about the conquest of Constantinopol ("H Poli") by the Turks... Or am I wrong?
" Ν΄ αϊλί εμάς και βάι εμάς 
οι Τούρκ΄ την Πόλ΄ επαίραν"

Maybe I should've stared a new thread on this... 
Does *Ρωμανία* actually refer to the Eastern Roman Empire (The Byzantine Empire)? I know that there the term Ρωμαίος (Roman) by which Greeks sometimes refer to themselves... or is used just for the Greeks around the Πόλη (Constantinople)?


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## parakseno

Well, guess I found an answer to some my questions... http://www.biocrawler.com/encyclopedia/Byzantine_Empire


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## anthodocheio

parakseno said:


> I asked about this because I've heard a song from "Pontos" called "*Πάρθεν η Ρωμανία*". I didn't make much out of the song until I found the lyrics and I originally thought it was something about Romania... I know it's called "Ρουμανία" in Greek and since the song is in Pontic I thought it might be the "Pontic way" to say it... There is a quite large Greek comunity in Romania at the Black Sea and there were Greek colonies from ancient times in Dobrogea region. I thought it was a song from this area.
> 
> But then again, I found the lyrics and I see it's about the conquest of Constantinopol ("H Poli") by the Turks... Or am I wrong?
> " Ν΄ αϊλί εμάς και βάι εμάς
> οι Τούρκ΄ την Πόλ΄ επαίραν"
> 
> Maybe I should've stared a new thread on this...
> Does *Ρωμανία* actually refer to the Eastern Roman Empire (The Byzantine Empire)? I know that there the term Ρωμαίος (Roman) by which Greeks sometimes refer to themselves... or is used just for the Greeks around the Πόλη (Constantinople)?



Sorry for not replying for so long..
"Ρωμανία" refers to to the Eastern Roman Empire as you said and as the web-site you sugested says. (Very nice one, I will have it in mind). The term used in the past to refer to ourselves is not Ρωμαίοι but Ρωμιοί. Ρωμαίοι always have been and are the people of the Roman Empire. Ρωμιοί we were (the Greeks) during the Otoman Empire above us. And at that point, if I'm not mistaken, the definition of Ρωμιοί was different from that of Γραικοί which as far as I know had a negative connotation.

That's all for now!!!


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## parakseno

Aha... thank you for correcting me! I was not aware of that. So, as far as I understand, the term Ρωμιοί is used when referring to the Byzantines and later to the Greeks under Ottoman rule...


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## ireney

Anthodocheio almost perfectly correct. 

a)Γραικός is from Graecus (latin). No negative connotations really. Ραγιάς yes, Γραικός no . Γραικύλος also has negative connotations

b) Ρωμιός comes from Ρωμαίος. Ever since we became Roman citizens we were called Ρωμαίοι, especially after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It became Ρωμιοί later on although no one is certain when  (sometime during the later Byzantine era). Even before we became a part of the Ottoman Empire we didn´t call ourselves Έλληνες. Ρωμαίος, Γραικός, Ελλαδικός was used ever since the term Έλλην became synonymous with "heathen", "non -Christian"


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## anthodocheio

Well I now want to add the other page I saw at http://www.biocrawler.com/encyclopedia/Greek_(name)


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## parakseno

Didn't even know that Έλλην meant pagan at some time... Was this around the time the Olympic Games stopped being held (during the time of Theodosius if I'm not mistaken)?

By the way, do these terms apply to all Greeks (from Greece, from Constantinople, from the other Asian regions)?
I mean Ελλαδικός sounds like something one would use for the Greeks from Greece... but then again, it might be used as "coming from Ellada" and then it could be used for anyone of Greek origin.

Anyway, seems it's a must I have a look at some Greek history (not just the ancient times and the modern)...


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## anthodocheio

The Greeks of Cyprus call us Ελλαδίτες. Not Έλληνες as they also are.

About history and ethnology and geography, I'm not the right person!


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## parakseno

> The Greeks of Cyprus call us Ελλαδίτες. Not Έλληνες as they also are.



Ha ha, that sounds so funny... (I guess because I'm thinking Spanish... )
Well, I can say that I learned quite a lot of thinks today (I'm adding "Ελλαδίτας" on the list).


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## anthodocheio

parakseno said:


> Ha ha, that sounds so funny... (I guess because I'm thinking Spanish... )
> Well, I can say that I learned quite a lot of thinks today (I'm adding "Ελλαδίτας" on the list).



Έλλαδίτης είναι ο ενικός ... παράξενε, και είναι Κυπριακά.
What do you mean here that it is funny because you are thinking Spanish? Please explain yourself!


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## parakseno

Ελλαδίτες sounds very... Spanish to my ears... as far as I know (from my scarce Spanish knowledge) -ditos would be a diminutive... Don't know how  I should say it in English... something like "little Greeks/ little people from Ellada".

I know it's not the best way to put it since the diminutive doesn't always have the meaning of "small" (at least not in Romanian - it can be used as an edearment too).


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## anthodocheio

I can say that it is not a diminutive in Greek and I mentioned it as it is has simmilar meaning to Ελλαδικός you mention above. 
But of course you are right. The worse is that Ελλάδα in Spanish means Frozen ¿no?


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## parakseno

> I can say that it is not a diminutive in Greek and I mentioned it as it is has simmilar meaning to Ελλαδικός you mention above.


I was aware of the fact it's not a diminutive in Greek (I mean... I guessed it wasn't since it had none of the endings I know for diminutives in Greek). So, no need to worry, you were perfectly clear from the very begining.



> The worse is that Ελλάδα in Spanish means Frozen ¿no?


Isn't that ironic... most of my Greek friends (not that many, unfortunately) always complain about beeing too hot in "Hellada"


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## anthodocheio

Ahora entiendo qué es . 
Es  o .


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## parakseno

Oups, sorry about that... it's the  one.


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## ireney

Ok, first things first. I know where Graecus comes from. However, its more "modern" use came from the Latin. I guess I should have taken another step back in expalining things. Other than that I don't understand why you posted that page anthodocheio 

Now, Ελλαδικός meant the Greek who belongs to the Christian faith as opposed to Έλλην that meant (at the time) heathen Greek. It wasn't applied to what is today Greece because today's borders didn't exist back then 
Again I am not sure about the exact time when the word Ελλην started taking the meaning of heathen but I guess it started having this meaning as soon as the Christian church who wanted to do away with the dodecatheon had enough strength to start propagandising 

Ελλαδίτης on the other hand does mean someone who is from Greece. He may not be a citizen of Greece, just as long as he is descended from Greece and not Cyprus. Another term, a bit "derogatory" is καλαμαράς.

The ending -ίτης is just Greek by the way , not just a regional thing.


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