# sugoi/sugoku



## nonews

Hi there!

I was told that these two sentences below are both correct: 
_Sugoi Oishii! _
_Sugoku Oishi!_ 

My question is, what´s the nuance of the two sentences and which one is more used.
To my understanding, "_sugoi_" is an adj. and "_sugoku_" an adv. Are they alternatives in all the cases or only some of them? Could someone give me some examples? 

Thanks a lot!


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## Flaminius

Hello nonews,  


> My question is, what´s the nuance of the two sentences and which one is more used.


Both _sugoi_ and _sugoku_ are used as an adverb in the example sentences you wrote above.  You can say that they are grammatically or semantically equivalent.  The difference lies in usage.  The former (_sugoi_ as an adjective) is more casual and the latter is more authentic.  The former is used more in spoken language and the latter in written language.  I might even say that _sugoi_ (adv.) predominates spoken language.

This form can substitute _sugoku_ that modifies an adjective or a verb (cf. sugoi tabeta or "ate very much").  Another adjective that passes for an adverb is _erai_ (thoroughly; erai tsukareta or "thoroughly exhausted").  The sample is too small to make any sound generalisation but I realise that both are adjectives denoting degree.


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## nonews

凄い! どうもありがとう Flaminius san!

One thing interesting about the word “sugoi” is that the kanji "凄" means "miserable, sad" in Chinese… I don´t know if there´s any connection with Japanese…


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## quesuerte

Yeah, I think 凄い does have the meaning of terrible or dreadful. I guess it's used a bit like how we say "wicked" in English. 

E.g "She's a wicked person!" meaning that she's really great, and not that she's actually a really horrible person. It has two meanings that are opposite!

Maybe if you said to someone that their cooking was sugoi it could be taken in two ways?


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## I_like_my_TV

> Yeah, I think 凄い does have the meaning of terrible or dreadful. I guess it's used a bit like how we say "wicked" in English.


See how the meanings swing in these words:

terrible => terrific
awful    => awesome
(Note that even "terrible", "awful" can still modify something appreciative in their adverbial forms: terribly, awfully)


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## nonews

Thank you guys!



I_like_my_TV said:


> See how the meanings swing in these words:
> 
> terrible => terrific
> awful => awesome
> (Note that even "terrible", "awful" can still modify something appreciative in their adverbial forms: terribly, awfully)


 
What I like my TV said really makes sense. At last these words turn into *adj. /adv.* of *degree, although originally they might have the opposite meanings*. 
 
But I think in most cases, “sugoi” is used in nihongo as an exclamation with a positive meaning…


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## cheshire

形容詞としても副詞としても普通に使えるよ！

中国ってすごくでかい。China is really big!
パンダってすごく可愛い。Panda is really cute!

中国ってすごくでかい国だね。
パンダってすごくかわいい動物ね。

中国ってすごいでかい。
パンダってすごいかわいいね。

中国ってすごいでかい国だね。
パンダってすごいかわいい動物ね。


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## I_like_my_TV

cheshire said:
			
		

> 形容詞としても普通に使えるよ！
> 
> 中国ってすごくでかい。China is really big!
> パンダってすごく可愛い。Panda is really cute!


So you think すごく in these sentences are adjectives? Interesting!


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## Broca's Area

I_like_my_TV said:


> See how the meanings swing in these words:
> 
> terrible => terrific
> awful => awesome
> (Note that even "terrible", "awful" can still modify something appreciative in their adverbial forms: terribly, awfully)


 
Also, interestingly enough, _nice_ and _silly _underwent considerable semantic change through the centuries.

_nice_: "ignorant" > "kind(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nice&searchmode=none)

_silly_: "happy" > "foolish"
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=silly&searchmode=none)


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## Musical Chairs

They say "suge" (I don't have the characters in here so I can't write it) but this is vulgar.

This is more in the sense of surprise and not to describe stuff though.


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## Musical Chairs

They say "mecha" like "sugoku" but that's also informal.


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## Flaminius

According to 古語辞典 (旺文社), a printed dictionary of Classical Japanese, すごし (> すごい) was used to describe a sense of horror or eeriness that causes goose flesh.  As it came to be applied to splendid things that also cause goose flesh or similar sensations, the negative connotations of the adjective worn off.  In Modern Japanese, most instances of すごい is with positive attitude.



			
				nonews said:
			
		

> One thing interesting about the word “sugoi” is that the kanji "凄" means "miserable, sad" in Chinese.


The kanji 凄 meant _be cold_ (凄凄), _horrifying _(凄絶) and austere (凄風) when it was introduced into Japanese more than thousand years ago (『新字源』: 角川書店).  I find this pretty similar to the original sense of すごい.


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## cheshire

These kinds of examples are found in any language.

Chinese: lihai 厉害
English: wicked, bad-ass,...


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## in_sense

I see I'm bringing this thread back from the dead. Necromancer it is, then.

When surprised high school girls see me for the first time they say "suge!!". They seem pretty psyched so I doubt that anything vulgar is implied in this sense. I'm glad they're excited to learn English!

Thoughts?


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## Flaminius

Hi,

If you are interested, _sugē_ is phonetically derived from _sugoi_ and it carries both the adjectival and the adverbial uses of the latter.  The difference?  Again, it belongs to yet a more casual speech register.


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## Ototsan

in_sense said:


> I see I'm bringing this thread back from the dead. Necromancer it is, then.
> 
> When surprised high school girls see me for the first time they say "suge!!". They seem pretty psyched so I doubt that anything vulgar is implied in this sense. I'm glad they're excited to learn English!
> 
> Thoughts?



You are right. "Sugee!" often means something like "Terrific!." An even more intesified form is すっげえ Suggee!  

--
You may also hear forms like すっごい, すっごく, etc., which are all intensified forms，e.g. すっごい大きい, すっごく大きい.


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