# No entiendo lo que dicen/digan



## furrykef

For an exercise at livemocha.com (the lessons are rather crappy, but hey, they're free), I was asked to describe my morning routine, so I submitted this (the part in question is in bold):

_Al levantarme siempre me asiento delante de la computadora y la uso hasta que me acuesto.  Pero a veces como cereales y los sábados y los domingos veo dibujos animados en español por Telemundo. Antes de hacerlo suelo ponerme gafas para leer el Closed Captioning (subtítulos) porque *no entiendo bien lo que dicen sin el Closed Captioning*._

I normally have a good instinct for the subjunctive, but I find this particular case mildly puzzling. Part of me is thinking it should be "digan" because the characters aren't saying anything specific I can't understand, so it's like saying "I can't understand whatever they say", right? But part of me thinks "dicen" sounds better and can't quite explain why.

What would you say here and why?


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## Tazzler

I would use the subjunctive there for the reason you gave. 

And note that _hasta que me acuesto_ is better because you're describing a normal routine.


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## furrykef

Ah, you're right about "hasta que me acuesto". Thanks!


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## Teena83

It is not right to say "no entiendo lo que digan" in this context. The subjunctive is often used to express hypothetical actions, and also wishes.
For example: 
1) Espero que *tengas* un buen viaje (wish)
2) Quizás *estudie* mañana (hypothetical action)

And here it is very clear that the person speaking doesn´t understand what they say, are saying, or what they have said. The action is taking place in this context, it is not hypothetical.


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## furrykef

Hmm. The analogy I had in mind was the difference between "Haz lo que quieres" and "Haz lo que quieras". The difference between them is that the first one refers to a specific thing the listener wants to do, while the second one isn't specific.

- Kef


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## Oldy Nuts

_Al levantarme siempre me _asiento *siento*.

And it's definitely "dicen". You cannot have difficulties in understanding what they "digan", that's in the future.


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## Teena83

furrykef said:


> Hmm. The analogy I had in mind was the difference between "Haz lo que quieres" and "Haz lo que quieras". The difference between them is that the first one refers to a specific thing the listener wants to do, while the second one isn't specific.
> 
> - Kef


 
We don´t use "haz lo que quieres" in Spanish.

When we say "haz/hacé lo que *quieras*" it means that we are warning someone: "if you do it, then face the consequences" (hypothetical again).

But in the context you gave before, in your first post, you are referring to a routine, and for routines, the indicative tense is the correct one.


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## Pinairun

"_The action is taking place in this context, it is not hypothetical."_
It's an affirmation without no doubt. It's objective.

*"no entiendo bien lo que dicen", *is quite correct. Indicative is required.

C


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## furrykef

Oldy Nuts said:


> _Al levantarme siempre me _asiento*siento*.



Geez. That's the second time I got that wrong (first I had "asiente"). ^^;



			
				Teena83 said:
			
		

> We don´t use "haz lo que quieres" in Spanish.



Perhaps not, but it should be hypothetically possible. What about something like "Ahora puedes hacer lo que querías hacer", "Now you can do what you were wanting to do"?



			
				Teena83 said:
			
		

> When we say "haz/hacé lo que *quieras*" it means that we are warning someone: "if you do it, then face the consequences" (hypothetical again).



But you can also have this exchange, right?

Hombre 1: ¿Qué debo hacer?
Hombre 2: Lo que quieras.

In that case it's not a warning; it just means "whatever you want".

OK, in any case, I understand that the indicative is required in the sentence I had and I think I have a better idea of why now. Thanks 

- Kef


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## Oldy Nuts

> We don´t use "haz lo que quieres" in Spanish.



Yes, we do. "Haz lo que quieres (tú), no lo que quieren otros"


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## orbes

"No entiendo lo que digan" sería en todos los casos incorrecto. Tu caso consiste en que sin tu guia no entiendes lo que dice la tele, lo que dicen en la tele. 
Espero haber ayudado, Saludos


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## Dammyf6

furrykef said:


> _Al levantarme siempre me *asiento* delante de la computadora y la uso hasta que me acuesto.  Pero a veces como *cereales y los* sábados y los domingos veo dibujos animados en español por Telemundo. Antes de hacerlo suelo ponerme gafas para leer el Closed Captioning (subtítulos) porque no entiendo bien lo que dicen__ *sin*__* el Closed Captioning*._



_*no entiendo bien lo que dicen > *This is OK, but there are _some other mistakes that I've found.

Errores →
_*
· asiento > *_Asiento se refiere al objeto (seat, chair) que una persona usa para sentarse. La expresión es incorrecta ya que el verbo es "Sentar" (sentarse uno mismo). Entonces la expresión correcta sería "_...siempre me *siento* delante..._".

· _*cereales y los *_> Falta un signo de puntuación que separe las ideas. Para una expresión más acertada sería mejor "..._Pero a veces como cereales*. L*os sábados y los domingos..."_

· _ *sin*__* el Closed Captioning *> Es reduntante mencionar __el objeto directo (en este caso "__el Closed Captioning__") por segunda vez en la misma oración_. 
La oración quedaría de la siguiente forma: "_Antes de hacerlo suelo ponerme gafas para leer el Closed Captioning (subtítulos) porque no entiendo bien lo que dicen__ sin__* él/este."*_

Espero haberte ayudado  !


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## Teena83

Oldy Nuts said:


> Yes, we do. "Haz lo que quieres (tú), no lo que quieren otros"


 
En este caso, y con la frase que agregas después, no suena mal, pero cuando le "aconsejas" a alguien "hacé/haz lo que quieras" jamás lo usaría con el modo indicativo. Suena muy raro con el modo indicativo.


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## Dammyf6

Teena83 said:


> En este caso, y con la frase que agregas después, no suena mal, pero cuando le "aconsejas" a alguien "hacé/haz lo que quieras" jamás lo usaría con el modo indicativo. Suena muy raro con el modo indicativo.



A mi también, pero más que raro me parece incorrecto...

"Hacé lo que quieras/querés" o "Haz lo que quieras" serían las formas correctas.


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## Oldy Nuts

Dammyf6 said:


> A mi también, pero más que raro me parece incorrecto...
> 
> "Hacé lo que quieras/querés" o "Haz lo que quieras" serían las formas correctas.



O te equivocaste, o me estás dando la razón: "Hacé lo que quer*é*s", sin voceo, es "haz lo que quieres", no lo que "quieras" (que sería "lo que querás").

Diálogo imaginario:

-¿Qué hago, lo que yo creo que es correcto, o lo que me aconsejan mis amigos?
-Haz lo que (tú) quieres/Hacé lo que querés.

Mi objeción apunta a la tajante afirmación siguiente: _We dont use "haz lo que quieres" in Spanish._


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## Teena83

Perdón si me expresé mal, quise decir, que generalmente no usamos esa frase "haz lo que quieres" en modo indicativo para la connotación que yo supongo que tiene "haz/hacé lo que quieras" (y vas a ver, o atenéte a las consecuencias), como una forma de advertir a alguien (y sin ninguna frase detrás, como el ejemplo que diste antes).

Y es vo*S*eo (viene de vos), no vo*C*eo.

Saludos


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## mhp

furrykef said:


> _*no entiendo bien lo que dicen sin el Closed Captioning*._


   I see you have received some good replies. But that won’t stop me from giving mine. 

  I think the key here is "no entiendo bien eso". Eso should be something concrete. Grammatically, there is nothing wrong with subjunctive in your sentence; it is just that it doesn’t make much sense in the context: “lo que digan” means whatever they say if they say anything at all (as if you are not sure that they’ll say something). “lo que dicen” is what they say; you are not questioning that they'll say something. Also see: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1114593


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## furrykef

Ah, muchas gracias


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## Lazarillo

Hola.

Lo *que* ocurre en este caso es que el "que" de la frase "No entiendo lo *que* dicen" no es conjunción, sino pronombre relativo ("No entiendo aquello lo cual dicen"; suena raro, pero es lo que significa ).

Un saludo,

L.


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## furrykef

Hmm... but would it be possible to say "Digan lo que digan, no los entiendo"? (I know the meaning changes slightly.)


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## Lazarillo

furrykef said:


> Hmm... but would it be possible to say "Digan lo que digan, no los entiendo"? (I know the meaning changes slightly.)



Yes, you're right, and here "que" is also a relative pronoun -but we are now expressing chances so we use subjunctive. It's very confusing.

Hope it helps.

L.


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## Oldy Nuts

furrykef said:


> Hmm... but would it be possible to say "Digan lo que digan, no los entiendo"? (I know the meaning changes slightly.)



In my opinion, this far fetched example is grammatically correct, but its logic fails. Maybe paraphrasing it a little explains why: "It doesn't matter what you say, I don't/am not going to understand you".


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## Oldy Nuts

Teena83 said:


> Yo no fui la que dijo "hacé lo que querés"



Lo siento, como no aclaraste a quién estabas respondiendo, el texto de tu mensaje me hizo pensar que era la misma persona. Debo aprender a poner más cuidado en identificar al que escribe.


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## furrykef

Oldy Nuts said:


> In my opinion, this far fetched example is grammatically correct, but its logic fails. Maybe paraphrasing it a little explains why: "It doesn't matter what you say, I don't/am not going to understand you".



It should be "them" rather than "you", but that's actually pretty much the  same sentence I had in mind to begin with: "No matter what they say, I don't understand them."

I'm not yet clear on either how it's farfetched or how the logic is wrong...


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## Oldy Nuts

furrykef said:


> It should be "them" rather than "you", but that's actually pretty much the  same sentence I had in mind to begin with: "No matter what they say, I don't understand them."
> 
> I'm not yet clear on either how it's farfetched or how the logic is wrong...



No matter what *you* say, I don't understand *them*?

The original question was about "No entiendo lo que dicen/digan", quite different from what you are asking now, in my opinion:

_would it be possible to say "Digan lo que digan, no los entiendo"_

And your new sentence is akin to "No matter what you say, I don't understand you". A slightly biased opinion at best.


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## Oldy Nuts

furrykef said:


> It should be "them" rather than "you", but that's actually pretty much the  same sentence I had in mind to begin with: "No matter what they say, I don't understand them."
> 
> I'm not yet clear on either how it's farfetched or how the logic is wrong...



I wrote



> "It doesn't matter what you say, I don't/am not going to understand you".


Are you saying that I should have written

"It doesn't matter what *you* say, I don't/am not going to understand *them*"?

The original question was about "No entiendo lo que dicen/digan", in my opinion, quite different from what you are asking now:

_would it be possible to say "Digan lo que digan, no los entiendo"_

And your new sentence is akin to "No matter what you/they say, I don't understand you/them". A slightly biased opinion at best.


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## Peterrobertini7

furrykef said:


> For an exercise at livemocha.com (the lessons are rather crappy, but hey, they're free), I was asked to describe my morning routine, so I submitted this (the part in question is in bold):
> 
> _Al levantarme siempre me asiento delante de la computadora y la uso hasta que me acuesto.  Pero a veces como cereales y los sábados y los domingos veo dibujos animados en español por Telemundo. Antes de hacerlo suelo ponerme gafas para leer el Closed Captioning (subtítulos) porque *no entiendo bien lo que dicen sin el Closed Captioning*._
> 
> I normally have a good instinct for the subjunctive, but I find this particular case mildly puzzling. Part of me is thinking it should be "digan" because the characters aren't saying anything specific I can't understand, so it's like saying "I can't understand whatever they say", right? But part of me thinks "dicen" sounds better and can't quite explain why.
> 
> What would you say here and why?



I wouldn't use the subjunctive, I would use the *indicative*. The verb belongs to the group of understanding or mental activity.

*No entiendo bien* is a fact and its undertanding depends on something REAL in orden to not understand well without closed captioning.


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## furrykef

Oldy Nuts said:


> Are you saying that I should have written
> 
> "It doesn't matter what *you* say, I don't/am not going to understand *them*"?



My intention was that the subject of both "digan" and "los" was "ellos" (the characters on TV), hence, "No matter what they say, I don't understand them".

- Kef


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## mhp

furrykef said:


> "Digan lo que digan, no les entiendo"


A small correction. 

If you are not sure why it should be _les_, see section 2 here. Essentially, what you don't understand is not their behavior but what they say. "What they say" is the implicit direct object of the verb entender.


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## furrykef

Ah yes, thanks. That's another one of those rules that I know and understand, but frequently forget to apply...


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