# 耕牛 眞意



## deseree

can some one translate these please


----------



## xiaolijie

The first two characters (vertical, 耕牛) mean "plough ox (or cow)". Is this the title of a painting/ drawing?
The other two characters are a kind of seal mark, which is a kind of signature by the artist, very difficult for me to read. I hope someone else will be able to read them and to help you.


----------



## deseree

thanks much


----------



## hkenneth

The other 2 characters are 真意 (from left to right), meaning "sincerely"


----------



## deseree

so it says sincerely ox, ok can anyone read the red symbol


----------



## hkenneth

BTW, "cow" in Chinese culture has meanings like "diligent" or "dedicated". Usually it is used as a metaphor for teacher.

the red symbol is 真意, sincerely


----------



## deseree

ok but thats not the only thing the red symbol says right, the painting is a black ming horse and the painting is an original by a painter named hasegawa does this help to decipher it


----------



## hkenneth

According to the painter's name, it is actually a Japanese word. It means the same thing, but Japanese use 真意 more frequently than Chinese 

And the symbol at the top of 真意, I cannot recognize it. Not looks like any Chinese character or Japanese kana...


----------



## deseree

hmmm im confused now lol

could they be really old then


----------



## hkenneth

Hard to tell, but the calligraphy looks good anyway lol


----------



## deseree

lmao dont help me

hmm well its not japanese either so im told


----------



## hkenneth

Well, the painter's name is for sure Japanese. Hasegawa = 長谷川 is a Japanese name. And in the symbol, it uses 眞, which is the Japanese version of the Chinese character: 真. You can tell the difference right?


----------



## deseree

nope i sure cant


----------



## hkenneth

眞 vs. 真
Japanese                 Chinese


----------



## deseree

hmmmm ok yes they look different but i still dont understand them


----------



## hkenneth

真 means "true" [adjective], 意 means "meaning, intention" [noun], so "真意" means "real intention" or "sincere"


----------



## deseree

ok so is there a possibility of there being a name in there


----------



## hkenneth

耕牛 maybe the artist's pseudonym I think. Traditionally Chinese and Japanese painters like to put both their name and seal symbol together.

If the painter's name is truly Hasegawa, there is nothing about it in the characters and the symbol... 100% for sure...


----------



## deseree

okay now im truly truly confused


----------



## hkenneth

But why are you so confused? There could be a Japanese painter named Hasegawa, who would like to use "cow" as his pseudonym for whatever reason and then put a seal symbol to express the feeling that he painted the painting "sincerely".


----------



## deseree

because im now not sure who painted it, and i would really like to know and since no one knows how do i find out whos seal it is


----------



## xiaolijie

The the characters in red (眞意) are surely a kind of signature, but the thing is they don't sound like a name nor Japanese 
(The 3rd "character" on top of them, by the way, is actually not a character but just a decorative drawing).
And the characters in black (耕牛) may be a kind of "pen name" for the artist, in addition to whatever his real name is.


----------



## deseree

ok thanks so much so does anyone have any suggestions on how to find out whose seal this is and can you tell me in English exactly what it says and in the order its said i realize it says something about a cow or ox the picture its from is of a black Ming horse so can anyone tell me precisely what it says


----------



## xiaolijie

Well, the two in black (vertical, top to bottom) mean "plough ox".
The two in red (horizontal, right to left 意眞, but one has to read them as 眞意) mean "sincerity".


----------



## deseree

thanks so much and any idea on how to find out whos seal that is


----------



## xiaolijie

I don't think it's possible for us common people. Even for specialists in Oriental paintings, the painter has to be extremely famous (like Picasso!) in order for them to recognise his seal.


----------



## terredepomme

> And in the symbol, it uses 眞, which is the Japanese version of the Chinese character: 真.


Just to make clear, the Japanese do use 真. But they still employ 眞 for aesthetic purposes like caligraphy(which mainlanders also do, of course) and you will see them in some people's names. (By the way, Koreans use only 眞, see this picture)


----------



## hkenneth

Interesting. I think they are pretty much synonym. When I was learning Japanese, in the textbook, there was only 眞, but I did see Japanese people use 真.

But... Koreans are still using Chinese characters these days? I have been told that in Korea, Chinese characters can only be found in street names.


----------



## terredepomme

> But... Koreans are still using Chinese characters these days? I have been told that in Korea, Chinese characters can only be found in street names.



The role is fairly limited but they are not quite dead. But I'm afraid the details would be for another thread.


----------



## SuperXW

Hey, do some research on Chinese paintings and seals. It's not confusing at all!
The calligraphy wrttings means "plough ox (or cow)", and on the red seal it marks "real intention" or "sincere". That's all.
Judged by the context of whole picture, "plough ox(cow)" could be the title, or the artist's name or he's pseudonym. "Real intention/sincere" could be just some "signature" like many of netizens have...It DOESN'T HAVE TO BE unique to a certain author, althought it often does. 
Anyway, just review your picture and take a guess.
If you're sure your artist's name was Hasegawa = 長谷川, he's a Japanese, and that name has nothing related to "ox" or "sincere". It doesn't matter, because Japanese artists can also do Chinese style paintings. Some of them would also like to write Chinese on their paintings. 

 You may check this kind of links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(east_Asia)


----------



## Embed

眞 is equal to 真 in traditional Chinese.Japs use this character 眞,which doesn't mean 眞 is from Japanese,Korean also use the character 眞.
《莊子·漁父篇》眞者，精誠之至也。​here is the proof that this character was created thousands years ago.


----------



## hkenneth

Yes, I didn't say 眞 is not derived from ancient China. Nor did I say that Japanese invented it. I was just saying that nowadays, Japanese like to use 眞 instead of 真 when they use this word (which, according to *terredepomme* , is not true).

Just like 叶 vs. 葉. My Taiwanese friend once asked me why the hell you guys use 叶 for leaf. It doesn't even look like a leaf. But the fact is, this is not a simplified character invented after 1949. It has been used for a long long time and just a synonym of 葉. (叶 also has some other meanings in ancient Chinese though).


----------



## bamboobanga

plough, ox 
sincere, intention


----------

