# Dare to make the first move



## TOUKA

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if you could help me to translate this: dare to make the first move, what are you waiting for? in lebanese.

Thanks a lot!


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## Ghabi

Can I say _itghadda biih 5abl ma yit3ashsha biik! shu tistanna?_


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## clevermizo

Ghabi said:


> Can I say _itghadda biih 2abl*** ma yit3ashsha biik! shu tistanna?_



*** I'm sure you mean قبل and not *خبل. 

I don't know if this idiom exists in Lebanese although it's surely an interesting one!

If it does, this is how I would "Lebanize" the grammar some more:

_tghadda *fii* 2abl ma yit3ashsha *fiik*! shu *b*tistanna_?


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## Soos

Sounds good to me, although from my experience "biik" is more Lebanese than "fiik", even in fixed conjugated verbs.


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## clevermizo

Soos said:


> Sounds good to me, although from my experience "biik" is more Lebanese than "fiik", even in fixed conjugated verbs.



Really! That's interesting. "Biik" sounds more Egyptian to me. So you would say "Ma buusa2 biik ما بوثق بيك " instead of "Ma buusa2 fiik" for "I don't trust you"?


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## Soos

Ooo tricky. Here I would definitely say fiik. I guess it just depends on the verb, sometimes there's room for either or.  But more importantly,  I thought about it, and a Lebanese would say bet7adaik for I dare you, and then the rest depends on context.  Mizo's proverb would work, but I could give you a more concise translation.  What is the first move about which you are speaking?  Talking? Like bet7adaik t7kiha 2bla, sho na6ir?  Stanna is more Palestinian, it's not very Lebanese.


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## Josh_

How about:

اجرؤ على الحركة الأولى! لِمَ تنتظر؟

اجرئ على الحركة/التحرّك أولاً! لِمَ تنتظر؟


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## Soos

That's MSA, Josh.  But good one!


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## Josh_

Oops, I skipped right over the part where Lebanese was asked for.


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## Ghabi

clevermizo said:


> *** I'm sure you mean قبل and not *خبل.



Thanks for correcting my typo, Mizo.



Soos said:


> ... a Lebanese would say bet7adaik for I dare you ...



But _t7adda_ is transitive ("to challenge someone"), for "to have the courage to do something", we use _istarja_, isn't it?


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## TOUKA

thanks a lot guys 
all I wanted is to know how to say the sentence the way it is not a proverb but glad because of your help!


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## clevermizo

Ghabi said:


> But _t7adda_ is transitive ("to challenge someone"), for "to have the courage to do something", we use _istarja_, isn't it?



I agree - the "dare" in "I dare you to make the first move" is different from the "dare" in "Dare to make the first move!"

If you want a literal rendition this is my attempt:

_Starji** ta3mel awwal xaTwe_/_awwal 7arake_
استرجي تعمل اوّل خطوة /اوّل حركة

** The pronunciation [starji] is more "neutral" - [starj*e*] sounds perhaps more Lebanese.


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## Soos

"Starjeh" works in Lebanese too. The way that I used bet7addaik is grammatical and correct, despite your initial inquiry. However, there is a difference in the meaning of the two words. When you say, bet7addaik, it literally means, "I challenge you". If you say "starjeh" it is closer to the meaning of "dare". So "starjeh" (not starji) would work well too. But if you want the translation, I really do need a *context*, as you cannot simply demand direct translations from one language to the next, especially when it is the difference between English and Arabic. Do that, and I will be happy to assist you in the _Lebanese_ equivalent.

Warmest regards,
Soos


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## clevermizo

Soos said:


> But if you want the translation, I really do need a *context*



The co  ntext is already given. "Dare" as in "Dare to make the first move" does not mean "I challenge you" in English - it means "Have the courage to make the first move." I think this is adequate to provide a translation. But we'll see what others think. I think xaTwe or 7arake is decent for "move" which in this sentence means the first step towards doing or accomplishing something. Also no one in this thread has "demanded" a direct translation.


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## TOUKA

thanks soos
 here's the context: a girl wants her secret admirer to make the first move. 
and after all your comments I made a first try: would it be right to say: starjeh ta3mol awwal 5atwé! shoo 3am testanna?


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## Soos

_No problem!  I will be happy to help you out! But first, starjeh has a context of the person doing the daring to not want their friend to succeed.  That said, the translation I can give you utilizes neither starjeh nor bet7addaik._
 
_Here is how a Lebanese would instinctively say what you want:_
 
_To girl:_
_Inteh roo7eh e7ki ma3ao awwal! Sho na6ra?_
_*YOU go talk to him first! What are you waiting for?*_
 
_To a boy:_
_Inta roo7 e7ki ma3aa awwal! Sho na6ir?_
_*YOU go talk to her first! What are you waiting for?*_
 
_Khatweh is more fus7a to the Lebanese ear._
__ 
_Now you noticed that I put in inteh and inta in the beginning of each translation. This is for good reason; it gives emphasis and implies that he/she originally would have liked their secret admirer to make the first move but now they will be doing it themselves._
__ 
_So there you have it, at last!_


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## Ghabi

Mystery solved! We thought the context was some kind of war-like situation, but it turned out to be an amourous affair... but love is war, isn't it?


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## Soos

Thank you, Ghabi! That's why I said that context _is_ important.  "I dare you to make the first move" could mean many things without context behind it.

Good point by the way, Ghabi.  In my experience, "love is a battlefield".


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## elroy

Well, Soos's "translation" isn't really a translation, but something else that one might say in that context.  It doesn't contain the "dare" element.

In Palestinian Arabic, you could say:

_tjarra2/tshajja3 u-khood awwal khuTwe inte_
_(tjarra2i/tshajja3i w-khudi awwal khuTwe inti)_

By the way, _starji_ would not be suitable at all here. It is used in contexts in which one would actually say "*don't* you dare" in English, i.e. when you don't want the other person to do the thing in question at all.

Example:

_Starji addem 3al-ka3ke (w shuuf shuu biSeer fiik)!_
_Don't you dare touch the cake (or else)!_


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## TOUKA

Thanks a lot guys


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## Soos

Yes, Elroy, that's why I already used a disclaimer and said that I would use neither starja or t7adda, and also already indicated that starja has a conotation of the person doing the daring to not want to person to follow through with the dare. But Touka did ask for the Lebanese translation i.e. how a Lebanese would say it, and I am quite confident that this how a Lebanese person would say it.


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