# Hindi/Urdu: rasuukh



## lafz_puchnevala

Hi,

This is one word which I am not sure of the meaning. This (www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/01glossaries/.../lajwanti.htm) says 'influence' from asar - O - rasuukh (weight and influence).

Has anyone come across this word before?

Thanks!


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## marrish

I haven't come across this word, maybe it is a Hindi word.


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## hindiurdu

It means power or influence (through power/strength/immovability) afaik. And, yes, often seen in conjunction with asar. 'Asar-o-rasookh', or simply 'asar-rasookh' in vulgar usage, means 'effect and strength'. I have seen it used in semi-negative ways though. 'Our business has rasookh' (we've become big enough to throw our weight around). Policewalon ke paas asar-rasookh hota hai. Here's an example Nagri usage from Navbharat times - कम नहीं _रसूख_ के आगे मत्था टेकनेवाले


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> I haven't come across this word, maybe it is a Hindi word.



Some of the members here have time and again raised a hue and cry over lafz's labelling of his posts "Hindi/Urdu", since according to them mostly he asks about Urdu words which have no place in Hindi and hence be labelled thus. This thread is interesting of how it goes in their face, in a twofold manner: (1) an Urdu speaker thinks an Urdu word as a Hindi word; (2) the same Urdu word also exists in Nagari script, thus once again showing how so much overlap is there between the two languages, and how much attempts at exclusivity should be mistrusted.


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## Alfaaz

I don't want to sound rude as I never really give much attention to this debate, but I think this might backfire into the face of those who say this fires into their face....:


			
				greatbear said:
			
		

> This thread is interesting of how it goes in their face, in a twofold manner: (1) an Urdu speaker thinks an Urdu word as a Hindi word;


I think the reply by marrish was supposed to be sarcastic! 
Reason: the correct pronunciation is r*u*suukh رُسُوخ NOT _rasuukh
_


			
				greatbear said:
			
		

> (2) the same Urdu word also exists in Nagari script, thus once again showing how so much overlap is there between the two languages, and how much attempts at exclusivity should be mistrusted.



I think we have had this debate as well. You could write Chinese or English in Urdu or Nagari, but that doesn't necessarily make it Urdu or Hindi (or intelligible). I remember you gave me the example of Michael Jackson being known even in rural parts of India, yet that wouldn't mean he is understood...
Similarly, if rusuukh is written in Nagari....doesn't certify that the common Hindi speaker would understand it.......or maybe they will.....?


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## Alfaaz

> Has anyone come across this word before?


Yes, rusukh is used a lot in print and electronic media.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> It means power or influence (through power/strength/immovability) afaik. And, yes, often seen in conjunction with asar. 'Asar-o-rasookh', or simply 'asar-rasookh' in vulgar usage, means 'effect and strength'. I have seen it used in semi-negative ways though. 'Our business has rasookh' (we've become big enough to throw our weight around). Policewalon ke paas asar-rasookh hota hai. Here's an example Nagri usage from Navbharat times - कम नहीं _रसूख_ के आगे मत्था टेकनेवाले



I don't know "rasookh" but I am aware of an Urdu word "rusuux". Is this how it is used in Hindi (rasookh/rasuukh)? If it is, then this is not an Urdu word (with the vowel being a after r and final kh in place of x (Kh) ).


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> I don't know "rasookh" but I am aware of an Urdu word "rusuux". Is this how it is used in Hindi (rasookh/rasuukh)? If it is, then this is not an Urdu word (with the vowel being a after r and final kh in place of x (Kh) ).


The word is rasookh (रसूख़, رسوخ) in common usage - the nuqta in Nagri is commonly skipped, but should be pronounced nonetheless. The root (Arabic) word is, infact, rusookh but it's undergone the same process of u → ə as zubaan → zabaan. Zabaan is not considered vulgar pronunciation and neither is rasookh. You can find a Urdu-Nagri-English entry for this in the dictionary at http://books.google.com/books?id=D5hvQZxpVk0C&pg=PA335 - cheers!


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## greatbear

Alfaaz said:


> I think the reply by marrish was supposed to be sarcastic!
> ...
> I think we have had this debate as well. You could write Chinese or English in Urdu or Nagari, but that doesn't necessarily make it Urdu or Hindi (or intelligible). I remember you gave me the example of Michael Jackson being known even in rural parts of India, yet that wouldn't mean he is understood...
> Similarly, if rusuukh is written in Nagari....doesn't certify that the common Hindi speaker would understand it.......or maybe they will.....?



Did I say that that makes it Hindi? You're missing the point. If this word is used in a newspaper like _Navbharat Times_ (to which hindurdu linked), read by many Hindi speakers, it is apparent that many Hindi speakers must be familiar with it. Of course, not all may be. However, the purpose of this forum is learn: so if someone posts the message labelling Hindi/Urdu and can get the help of both language speakers, what's wrong with it, especially now that we have the proof that the word in question is used in Hindi media as well?

Yes, I didn't understand marrish's sarcasm, if it was that, since it was unwarranted for. Instead of giving direct answers, some people are bent upon creating Hindi-Urdu controversies.


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## hindiurdu

rasookh is definitely widely understood by Hindi and Urdu speakers. Why is this surprising? It's not such an exotic word. I did a casual search just now 

-'_रसूख_ की गोली' उजाड़ रही विवाह की रौनक
- _रसूख_ के आगे अधिकार बौना
-_रसूख_ है तो सिक्के हैं
- जमीन अधिग्रहण के लिए _रसूख_ का इस्तेमाल
-_रसूख_ वालों का जोर हर क्षेत्र में चलता

These are all from different sources. You'll notice they are all negative in connotation. There were over one lakh hits for Nagri in Google for this term. Rusookh is a less common pronunciation - there were about 500 hits for रुसूख. It's like suroor → saroor, usool → asool, muhoort → mahoor(a)t, except that the 'u' forms of these words are much more widespread than 'rusookh'. I have no idea why.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> The word is rasookh (रसूख़, رسوخ) in common usage - the nuqta in Nagri is commonly skipped, but should be pronounced nonetheless. The root (Arabic) word is, infact, rusookh but it's undergone the same process of u → ə as zubaan → zabaan. Zabaan is not considered vulgar pronunciation and neither is rasookh. You can find a Urdu-Nagri-English entry for this in the dictionary at http://books.google.com/books?id=D5hvQZxpVk0C&pg=PA335 - cheers!



You have missed 50% of my stipulation, namely the kh (for khiir=pudding) to x difference in the originally posted word. On this forum the usual convention is to write this sound with a Kh or an x and neither of these are included in the subject heading.

zubaan/zabaan has nothing to do with rusuux/rasuux. If you check some older threads a number of Hindi speakers are not too keen on the preservation of the nuqtah and would prefer to write and pronounce kh/g/ph/j in place of x/Gh/f/z.


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## marrish

hindiurdu said:


> The word is rasookh (रसूख़, رسوخ) in common usage - the nuqta in Nagri is commonly skipped, but should be pronounced nonetheless. The root (Arabic) word is, infact, rusookh but it's undergone the same process of u → ə as zubaan → zabaan*. Zabaan is not considered vulgar pronunciation* and neither is rasookh. You can find a Urdu-Nagri-English entry for this in the dictionary at http://books.google.com/books?id=D5hvQZxpVk0C&pg=PA335 - cheers!



I can't comment on your post with full certainty because it seems to describe a language other than Urdu. I still think Urdu has rusuux so rasookh might be Hindi. 

The only point that I can wholeheartedly subscribe to is that zabaan is indeed not considered vulgar pronunciation, at least in Urdu. I don't know, maybe in Hindi it is but I don't think so.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> zubaan/zabaan has nothing to do with rusuux/rasuux.



How not? Could you elaborate, please? The u-a shift is often observed in Hindi-Urdu, whether the word be of Arabic/Persian origins or Sanskrit origins. Another example is puTThaa/paTThaa (meaning: buttock).


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> How not? Could you elaborate, please? The u-a shift is often observed in Hindi-Urdu, whether the word be of Arabic/Persian origins or Sanskrit origins. Another example is puTThaa/paTThaa (meaning: buttock).


Leaving the first question to the addressee: can you elaborate on puTThaa/paTThaa? What is the relation between the two words?


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Leaving the first question to the addressee: can you elaborate on puTThaa/paTThaa? What is the relation between the two words?



Both mean the same thing! What other relation you want? Or, maybe, you got confused between "paTThaa" buttock and "paTThaa" cardboard?


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> Both mean the same thing! What other relation you want? Or, maybe, you got confused between "paTThaa" buttock and "paTThaa" cardboard?



I thought paTThaa meant 1) muscle and 2) Young of an animal as in "ulluu kaa paTThaa". For cardboard I would have "gattaa" in mind and "phaTTaa" would be a wooded board.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> I thought paTThaa meant 1) muscle and 2) Young of an animal as in "ulluu kaa paTThaa". For cardboard I would have "gattaa" in mind and "phaTTaa" would be a wooded board.



It's never too late to learn


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## lafz_puchnevala

hindiurdu said:


> [...] You can find a Urdu-Nagri-English entry for this in the dictionary at http://books.google.com/books?id=D5hvQZxpVk0C&pg=PA335 - cheers!



Hi,

Thanks a lot for that link! It will save me some trouble in finding meanings of words 


lafz_puchnevala said:


> Hi,
> This is one word which I am not sure of the meaning. This (www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/01glossaries/.../lajwanti.htm) says 'influence' from asar - O - rasuukh (weight and influence).



http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/01glossaries/busch/lajwanti.htm


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> On this forum the usual convention is to write this sound with a Kh or an x and neither of these are included in the subject heading.



I am new, so you will have to bear with me here. I am used to writing Shah Rukh Khan as just that and not Shah Rux Xan, unless I am explicitly trying to say it in IPA. rasookh is IPA /rəsuːx/. There are always regional and community variations in a language spoken over vast geographical spaces, so Purabiyas saying /s/ instead of /sh/ or Garhwalis saying /sh/ instead of /s/ or Kashmiris saying /məha:ra:za:/ instead of /məha:ra:dʒa:/ or some Assamese people and Kurukh Biharis making an /x/ out of /kʰ/ or /ʃ/ doesn't bother me.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> I am new, so you will have to bear with me here. I am used to writing Shah Rukh Khan as just that and not Shah Rux Xan, unless I am explicitly trying to say it in IPA. rasookh is IPA /rəsuːx/. There are always regional and community variations in a language spoken over vast geographical spaces, so Purabiyas saying /s/ instead of /sh/ or Garhwalis saying /sh/ instead of /s/ or Kashmiris saying /məha:ra:za:/ instead of /məha:ra:dʒa:/ or some Assamese people and Kurukh Biharis making an /x/ out of /kʰ/ or /ʃ/ doesn't bother me.



I respect totally the fact that you are new to the forum and we hope that your presence is mutually rewarding. I did clarify my reasoning for suggesting that "rasookh"/"rasuukh" may be a Hindi word for reasons of a vowel difference and the final consonant "kh". I fully appreciate the variations in pronunciation amongst different communities but my perspective was standard Urdu in which, as you would no doubt know, the word is "rusuux". Of course "rasuux" is also pronounced by many Urdu speakers but, once again, unless otherwise stated when the title indicates "Urdu/Hindi" or "Hindi/Urdu", the standard languages are the focus of discussion.


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## marrish

lafz_puchnevala said:


> http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/01glossaries/busch/lajwanti.htm



LP, thanks for the link, I think it clarifies quite much here as to the formal questions previously raised. The word in Urdu is rusuux/rusuuKh but it has been transcribed in accordance with the Nagari version.

By the way, there are many more mistakes in this glossary, so I wouldn't recommend it for learning Urdu.


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## Alfaaz

greatbear said:
			
		

> Did I say that that makes it Hindi? You're missing the point. If this word is used in a newspaper like _Navbharat Times_ (to which hindurdu linked), read by many Hindi speakers, it is apparent that many Hindi speakers must be familiar with it. Of course, not all may be. However, the purpose of this forum is learn: so if someone posts the message labelling Hindi/Urdu and can get the help of both language speakers, what's wrong with it, especially now that we have the proof that the word in question is used in Hindi media as well?
> 
> Yes, I didn't understand marrish's sarcasm, if it was that, since it was unwarranted for. Instead of giving direct answers, some people are bent upon creating Hindi-Urdu controversies.


First of all, I would again apologize as I did in my previous post and also mentioned that I try not to pay attention to or participate in such debates that happen in the forum.

Agree! No you didn't. I see the point and thanks for making it clearer. Yes, this is the point I was trying to get at: if I use the word in front of a "Hindi speaking" friend (whose language isn't strongly influenced by Urdu or Bollywood), he or she probably wouldn't understand it.. which I believe is the point that the other forum members have been irritated about when LP marks his post as Hindi/Urdu. I completely agree that the purpose of this forum is to learn from others and also teach. That is why I have continued to answer LP's threads with my limited knowledge, even though everyone might agree that for some of the words he has asked the label of the thread was clearly wrong/misleading, and even though other forum members might have expressed concern (directly or indirectly) over my replying! 

(I don't think I have tried in the past, nor am trying to fuel any controversy in the present. I am aware that other forum members might have made some remarks that you might be referring to. As mentioned in a post before that was deleted by the moderator, sometimes the other forum members viewpoint also makes sense, because some of LP's sources have been clearly Urdu. This of course is what might annoy other members.....that he still chooses to mark the thread with "Hindi/Urdu".) 

You made a great point in your post that this forum is to learn, which is why we all try to provide the correct (_standard_) pronunciations of words (and I copy and paste from the dictionary often and even welcome corrections from other forum members)! We wouldn't disagree that some unaware or careless/relaxed people might pronounce rusuux as rasuukh or futuur as fatuur/fituur, but we try to provide the correct standard pronunciations for Learning. Maybe if someone wants to include other pronunciations, they could say "colloquial/vulgar/alternate pronunciation". As mentioned previously, Urdu and Hindi students might also read the forum....

Also in many other threads you have indicated that you feel language should not be followed by a rule book, which I would agree with to some extent.Similar views have been presented by some other members (such as hindiurdu). 
Example: In American English, slang is often used colloquially and even in Southern Literature. However, it would not be accepted in school/college/university or even at a formal level. "I don't gots nuthin at my haa-uz" would be fine in a movie, book, or even amongst friends, but probably wouldn't be accepted in a English 101 essay or a dissertation. The similar thing would apply to Urdu or Hindi. Urdu literature/films/music/poetry has used variant forms/pronunciations to add different flavors (Hindi, dihaati, shahri babu, etc.), but those probably would be frowned upon in a formal setting...or even a song like "ik pyaar ka nagma hai, jindagi aur kuchh bhi nahi"; So there have to be some rules and standards...



> http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...h/lajwanti.htm


Thanks for finally providing a good link LP!


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## lafz_puchnevala

marrish said:


> LP, thanks for the link, I think it clarifies quite much here as to the formal questions previously raised. The word in Urdu is rusuux/rusuuKh but it has been transcribed in accordance with the Nagari version.
> 
> By the way, there are many more mistakes in this glossary, so I wouldn't recommend it for learning Urdu.



Oh I see. Is it the spelling or the meaning of words? 

Thanks!


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## marrish

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Oh I see. Is it the spelling or the meaning of words?
> 
> Thanks!



It is mostly for the spelling; the meanings are okay. Seems you read the post carefully!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> LP, thanks for the link, I think it clarifies quite much here as to the formal questions previously raised. The word in Urdu is rusuux/rusuuKh but it has been transcribed in accordance with the Nagari version.
> 
> By the way, there are many more mistakes in this glossary, so I wouldn't recommend it for learning Urdu.



Perhaps I have missed something but I did n't find the context in which "rusuux" was used in the Urdu short story "laajvantii". I have found the word "rusuux" in the glossary and it is supposed to be on page 597 but when I open the pdf document, this page is n't there.


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## marrish

Did you look up the _nagarii_ version or the _nasta3liiq one_? In the latter it is there on p. 597, fifth paragraph, line three:


> _ابھی گیت کی آواز لوگوں کے کانوں میں گونج رہی تھی، صبح بھی نہیں ہو پائی تھی اور محلہ ملا شکور کے مکان ۴۱۴ کی بدھوا ابھی تک اپنے بستر میں کربناک سی انگڑائیاں لے رہی تھی کہ سندر لال کا ‘‘گرائیں’’ لال چند، جسے اپنے اثر و رسوخ استعمال کر کے سندر لال اور خلیفہ کالکا پرشاد نے راشن ڈپو لے دیا تھا، دوڑا دوڑا آیا اور اپنی گاڑھے کی چادر سے ہاتھ پھیلائے ہوئے بولا: بدھائی ہو سندر لال!’’۔_​


In the nagarii script, it is there on p. 232, second paragraph:



> अभी गीत की आवाज़ लोगों के कानों में गूँज रही थी. अभी सुब्ह भी नहीं हो पाई थी और मुहल्ला मुल्ला शकूर के माकन ४१४ की विधवा अभी तक अपने बिस्तर में कर्बनाक सी अँगड़ाइयाँ ले रही थी कि सुंदरलाल का 'गराईं' लालचंद, जिसे अपना असरो-रसूख़ इस्तेमाल करके सुंदरलाल और ख़लीफ़ा कालका प्रशाद ने राशन डिपो दे दिया था, दौड़ा दौड़ा आया और अपनी गाढ़े की चादर से हाथ फैलाते हुए बोला-''बधाई हो सुंदरलाल!''



Please note the disparity between the original text and the _nagarii_ adaptation: 

_bidhwaa - vidhvaa
asar-o-rusuux - asar-o-rasuux
parshaad - prashaad
le diyaa thaa - de diyaa thaa
_
It is a good material for ''Urdu-Hindi spelling conventions''!

Also note सुब्ह which is better solution for صبح than Hindi सुबह. Good for schwa insertion thread?

Edit: still another one: _subH bhii nahiiN ho paa'ii thii - abhii subH bhii nahiiN ho paa'ii thii_. All in one sentence!


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## Qureshpor

Thank you, marrish SaaHib. I was looking for page 597 in the Nagri version. I did n't see the link for the Urdu. So in the 29th post we finally have the sentence in question. Thank God for that!

....Laal Chand, jise apnaa asar-o-rusuux isti3maal kar ke Sundar Laal aur Khalifah Kaalkaa Prashaad ne raashan Dipo de diyaa thaa, dauRaa-dauRaa aayaa..

Laal Chand, whom Sundar Laal and Khalifah Kaalkaa Prashaad had given the ration depot using their influence​, came running..


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Thank you, marrish SaaHib. I was looking for page 597 in the Nagri version. I did n't see the link for the Urdu. So in the 29th post we finally have the sentence in question. Thank God for that!
> 
> ....Laal Chand, jise apnaa asar-o-rusuux isti3maal kar ke Sundar Laal aur Khalifah Kaalkaa Prashaad ne raashan Dipo de diyaa thaa, dauRaa-dauRaa aayaa..
> 
> Laal Chand, whom Sundar Laal and Khalifah Kaalkaa Prashaad had given the ration depot using their influence​, came running..



xudaa hii sunne waalaa hai, QP SaaHib!

I would go for Parshaad for Urdu.

When I mentioned that the glossary is inaccurate as per spelling and meaning (rarely) I haven't noticed this entry before:



_phātihāneh_ adj. weighty, reverential, mournful
فاتحانہ



Very interesting interpretation of this word, phonetically too.


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