# щенок



## ewie

Hello Russofolks and Russophiles
My question is about the word ЩЕНОК.
*Context*: I'm painting a picture whose title is to be _Puppy 18_.  It's of a man, not a dog.  I'd like to include the title _in_ the painting (there's quite a big gap in the background), but I'd like it to be in Russian.
The word _puppy_ in English, when applied to a man rather than a dog, conveys the idea _He's soft and affectionate, not hard and vicious_.  The *question *is: Does ЩЕНОК convey the same thing?  If not, can you think of another Russian noun that would do the trick?
*Also*: Does ЩЕНОК have any unfortunate _other_ meanings that my rubbish dictionary doesn't include? or does it only mean 'young dog'?

(Answers in English only please ~ I don't actually speak any Russian)


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## Ptak

Usually, yes, "щенок" is a scornful name for a young man/guy with the meaning that he's inexperienced. But this word actually does not mean that he's _soft and affectionate_, in my opinion.
It can also mean "*cheeky* young guy".
It can also be just a swearword (for a young guy).


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## Gestahl

ЩЕНОК is very often a strong derogatory term in Russian, especially when applied to young men (kids). If you're going to avoid this meaning in your painting, it is probably best to use the word ЩЕНОЧЕК, but I think this word is too sweet for a 18 years old person (if I understood the 'Puppy 18' correctly ).


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## Ptak

If you need a word for a soft and affectionate guy, try "*маменький сынок*". There is also the word "*молокосос*", but actually it's quite close to "щенок".

P.S. Maybe also "*сосунок*" would work...


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## Kolan

Anyhing about dogs must be ruled out, when talking of a man in your context, unless it is sexually connotated.

However, some other animals may fit. I am thinking about *кролик*, rabbit. It is fairly neutral, soft and affectionate.


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## Gestahl

Ptak is obviously joking.


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## Hoax

Kolan said:


> You'll have to rule out definitely anything about dogs talking of a man in your context.
> 
> However, some other animals may fit. I am thinking about *кролик*, rabbit. It is soft and affectionate.


    I think, "песик" has no negative connotation. But if one calls a man that way, it sounds pretty weird.


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## Ptak

Gestahl said:


> Ptak is obviously joking.


I don't. I don't think it would be correct on this forum if someone asks for help.

It's just that when I read ewie's post, I thought the purpose of the picture is to _ridicule_ the man who's painted in it. In this case "маменький сынок" or "сосунок" would perfectly work. Maybe my impression was wrong.

As for "кролик", it would sound quite strange to me whether the purpose is to ridicule or to say "he's such a good and affectionate guy"...


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## ewie

Wow, I didn't expect such a good response ~ thanks, everyone.
(1) Would *ЩЕНОЧЕК *be a diminutive form of *ЩЕНОК*?  Or something else?  I hope to avoid any note of derogatoriness.  The chap isn't 18 ~ that's just his sequential number: he's number 18 in my _Puppy_ sequence of pictures.  He's 30-40 years old.
(2) Isn't *маменький сынок *a bit derogatory?  According to what I've worked out from my rubbish Russian dictionary it might be equivalent to English _mummy's boy_.  He's definitely not that.
(3) I found *молокосос* when I looked up _puppy_ but discounted it on the grounds that it seemed to have more to do with _inexperience _than _softness_.
(4) What is *сосунок* _literally_?
(5) I presume that *песик* is the diminutive of *пëс*.  One of the definitions of *пëс* in my rubbish dictionary is _cur_, a very derogatory word in English.
(6) Sorry, I should've said: The object of the picture isn't to ridicule the guy ~ quite the opposite, in fact.  The viewer is supposed to think _"Ooh he looks like a tough guy ~ oh, just a minute, it's called _Puppy 18_ ~ he must be a *softie on the inside*"_.  Erm ... does that help?

P.S. I like the idea of *кролик *~ I suppose really what I'm looking for is an animal you associate with softness/mildness: it doesn't have to have any connexion to _dogs_ as such.


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## Hoax

ewie said:


> Wow, I didn't expect such a good response ~ thanks, everyone.
> (1) Would *ЩЕНОЧЕК *be a diminutive form of *ЩЕНОК*?  Or something else?  I hope to avoid any note of derogatoriness.  The chap isn't 18 ~ that's just his sequential number: he's number 18 in my _Puppy_ sequence of pictures.  He's 30-40 years old.
> (2) Isn't *маменький сынок *a bit derogatory?  According to what I've worked out from my rubbish Russian dictionary it might be equivalent to English _mummy's boy_.  He's definitely not that.
> (3) I found *молокосос* when I looked up _puppy_ but discounted it on the grounds that it seemed to have more to do with _inexperience _than _softness_.
> (4) What is *сосунок* _literally_?
> (5) I presume that *песик* is the diminutive of *пëс*.  One of the definitions of *пëс* in my rubbish dictionary is _cur_, a very derogatory word in English.
> (6) Sorry, I should've said: The object of the picture isn't to ridicule the guy ~ quite the opposite, in fact.  The viewer is supposed to think _"Ooh he looks like a tough guy ~ oh, just a minute, it's called _Puppy 18_ ~ he must be a *softie on the inside*"_.  Erm ... does that help?
> 
> P.S. I like the idea of *кролик *~ I suppose really what I'm looking for is an animal you associate with softness/mildness: it doesn't have to have any connexion to _dogs_ as such.


It is котик than.
   Пёсик is the diminutive of пёс, but it is not offensive. I can even imagine a girl calling her boyfriend that way.


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## nord_sud

If I saw a title "Щенок 18" in the background I would think of a cheeky person. That is what I think. Maybe "Котик?" (a male cat). This word is rarely used while talking about animals. A mannered girl may say to her boyfriend or male friend "Котик". "Котик" is vicious enough. "Щенок" is not vicious at all (in my opinion).


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## Ptak

Yes, *котик* is good.


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## Kolan

nord_sud said:


> If I saw a title "Щенок 18" in the background I would think of a cheeky person. That is what I think. Maybe "Котик?" (a male cat). This word is rarely used while talking about animals. A mannered girl may say to her boyfriend or male friend "Котик". "Котик" is vicious enough. "Щенок" is not vicious at all (in my opinion).


In animals котик would be soft and affectionate only if neutralized. Worst of all, a reverse translation into English may also yield "pussy".


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## Ptak

"pussy" has too many connotations in English

"котик" in Russian means only a "sweet" guy / man. (If we don't speak about animals)


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## Hoax

Kolan said:


> In animals котик would be soft and affectionate only if neutralized. Worst of all, a reverse translation into English may also yield "pussy".


вот "Pussy" как раз может быть "щенком", если уж надо придерживаться животной темы, кошачья порода при переводе на русский тут ну никак не вписывается


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## Ptak

ewie said:


> (4) What is *сосунок* _literally_?


suckling


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## ewie

My rubbish dictionary says that *котик *also means _fur seal_ ~ is that right?  It also gives *тюлень *for _seal_.  Is there a word for _seal pup_?
(I never realized this would be so problematical).
Kolan, what do you mean by 'only if neutralized'?


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## Hoax

ewie said:


> My rubbish dictionary says that *котик *also means _fur seal_ ~ is that right?  It also gives *тюлень *for _seal_.  Is there a word for _seal pup_?
> (I never realized this would be so problematical).


    If you say котик to a Russian with no context, he will think about a cat. Fur seal is usually called морской котик.


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## Hoax

Белёк is a pup of тюлень. I'm not sure if it is correct to call котикs' pup that way. I think щенок is a pup of морской котик, or just детёныш.


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## nord_sud

щенок = a puppy, also any predator's cub may be called "щенок" (fox cub, wolf cub seal cub (pup), as well)
котик = a man, a male cat, a fur seal
In Russia we do not often meet seals or talk about seals except for some northern seaside towns, so if I hear "котик" with no context I think of a man


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## ewie

Ok, you've convinced me: *котик *it is!
I'm not _too _worried about the 'reverse translation = pussy' aspect ~ in fact if anything that would add another interesting twist to the image vs. title discrepancy!
Thanks to everyone for the help


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## Kolan

ewie said:


> Ok, you've convinced me: *котик *it is!
> I'm not _too _worried about the 'reverse translation = pussy' aspect ~ in fact if anything that would add another interesting twist to the image vs. title discrepancy!
> Thanks to everyone for the help


Can we see the draft picture or its outline?


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## Saluton

I think we would need to see the picture to understand what it should be called in Russian . I strongly dislike all the versions suggested in this topic, sorry. Perhaps only *котик* would work but I doubt about it as well.


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## domkrat

Strange that no one yet suggested "*медвежонок*" (bear cub, teddy bear). Girls can call their boyfriends this way.


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## Hoax

domkrat said:


> strange that no one yet suggested "*медвежёнок*" (bear cub, teddy bear). Girls can call their boyfriends this way.


медвежонок легко превращается в увальня.


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## domkrat

hoax said:


> медвежонок легко превращается в увальня.


Сильный и большой, но добрый и ласковый. По-моему, в самый раз.


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## Hoax

domkrat said:


> Сильный и большой, но добрый и ласковый. По-моему, в самый раз.


толстый, лохматый и косолапый - настоящий мужик :d


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## Ptak

Yes, I like "*медвежонок*" too. 

But I agree with Salution, it's impossible to guess what is the best variant without seeing the picture.


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## Schroedingher

May I suggest жеребёнок (colt)?  Seems to fit the requirement and carries no negative connotations I can think of.

Just my 2 коп. ...


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## Schroedingher

... it's a bit too saccharine to my taste, besides "кот" used to be a slang name for a pimp around 1900's and "котик" was a typical way for a prostitute to address a prospective john, at least according to a good number of Russian writers of that time.


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## ewie

Sorry, it's not quite finished yet so I can't provide a picture.  I haven't even started on the caption yet ... I'm now finding *медвежонок *_very_ appealing, not just because it has 'associations' in English but because it's such a _nice-looking_ word in Russian

Actually, now that I come to think of it, he does bear quite a resemblance to the picture in my avatar above, only not quite so _puppyish_.


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## Schroedingher

In my opinion медвежонок ought to be plump and well-rounded, unlike a typical teenager, but as we say in Russia "художник так видит" (this is how the artist sees it)

Best of luck!


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## domkrat

Hi _ewie_!

Glad you liked it! 

I think *медвежонок* would work best for a man a bit  bigger or tougher than average.
And *котик* is _very_, _very sweet_ indeed. This would work well if you want maximum contrast.


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## ewie

Am I missing anything important there, Kolan?

A native Russian friend has suggested *лапочка *_*(or *_*лапушка*_*)*_ ~ what does the panel think of those, please?


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## Ptak

Ewie, *межвежонок* is very good, really. As for *жеребенок*, I would not suggest it, it could sound a bit rude or even funny and has some sexual connotation. *Лапушка* mostly refers to women, and as for *лапочка*, I think it could describe only a _very young_ guy, and is also very sweet, like *котик *(even more).


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## Kolan

ewie said:


> Am I missing anything important there, Kolan?


Welcome back, ewie! Yes, you did. The discussion is going on, and I regretted that we are missing your comments.

In the deleted post I suggested *Бобик* (*Bobik*), which a commonly accepted common name for a *soft affectionate dog*, which may be a reasonable palliaive to dogs proper talking of men. If someone loves dogs, then such a person would understand a soul of dog looking for home and owner.


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## Ptak

Ewie, *бобик* is just a common name for mongrels, homeless dogs, and nothing more. Obviously Kolan took too much offense at you...


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## Dmitry_86

ewie said:


> Hello Russofolks and Russophiles
> My question is about the word ЩЕНОК.
> *Context*: I'm painting a picture whose title is to be _Puppy 18_. It's of a man, not a dog. I'd like to include the title _in_ the painting (there's quite a big gap in the background), but I'd like it to be in Russian.
> The word _puppy_ in English, when applied to a man rather than a dog, conveys the idea _He's soft and affectionate, not hard and vicious_. The *question *is: Does ЩЕНОК convey the same thing? If not, can you think of another Russian noun that would do the trick?
> *Also*: Does ЩЕНОК have any unfortunate _other_ meanings that my rubbish dictionary doesn't include? or does it only mean 'young dog'?
> 
> (Answers in English only please ~ I don't actually speak any Russian)


 
1) "Щенок" is a cub of a dog. Also, if I am not mistaken, cubs of wolves, foxes, jackals and some other canines may also be called by this word. But it never refers to a cub of felines (lions, tigers, leopards, cheetahs and etc.).

2) Regarding a personal characteristic, it is the one really considered to be contemptuous, disdainful. This word is always used as a rather strong abuse. I would divide the situations in which it is encountered into 2 main types:

- speaking about someone's *immature* behaviour, way of doing things usually when applying to young guys (boys) by more authorised and experienced people. The underlying intention is to humiliate a person, make him have a low opinion of himself, upset him. This is done especiaaly in the cases when an older one and a younger one resisting each other because of some reason

- insulting someone, not necessarily a young one but only a man, not a woman. The reasons for uttering such word may be very different: from common quarreling and fight in the street to a father scolding his son for something wrong done by him.

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Frankly speaking, I do not see how your suggestion about not being hard and vicious may be connected with the word "щенок". In my opinion, in this aspect the English and Russian ways of usage do not have anything in common.


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## Ptak

Dmitry_86 said:


> - insulting someone, not necessarily a young one


I hardly can imagine this word addressing someone who's, say, in his forties. Maybe only from a very, very old person.


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