# Persian: یه عالمه پول و پله پس انداز



## seitt

Greetings

Re the sentence “Persian: یه عالمه پول و پله پس انداز”, please could you give the exact pronunciation of the whole sentence? Any extra kasres?

In particular, is عالمه from عالم (ālam ‘world’)?

I understand this phrase to mean, “Save loads of money.”

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


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## damavand

"ye aalam-e pulo pal-e pas andaz"
عالمه is from "world"
Your phrase is incomplete. "To save loads of money" in colloquial will be : یه عالمه پول و پله پس انداز کردن


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## seitt

Many thanks, most useful!


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## eskandar

Can someone explain why it is یه عالمه پول and not یه عالمِ پول ? How is عالمه different from عالم ?


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## Treaty

eskandar said:


> Can someone explain why it is یه عالمه پول and not یه عالمِ پول ? How is عالمه different from عالم ?



In fact, the formal version is یک عالم پول without either _kasre _or _eh _after عالم. In colloquial Persian the suffix _eh (_with mute_ h) _is usually a definite article. However, I have no idea what this _eh _does here at the end, especially when I consider its synonymous expression یه دنیا which never gets any suffix or _ezaafe_.


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## Qureshpor

As the pronounciation of 3aalam + izaafat is the same as 3aalam + h, could it be that it is a misprint?


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## Treaty

Qureshpor said:


> As the pronounciation of 3aalam + izaafat is the same as 3aalam + h, could it be that it is a misprint?



Considering a stress is on the last syllable, it is not ezaafe but similar to the final _e_ definite article that is written with _h_.


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## eskandar

Treaty said:


> In fact, the formal version is یک عالم پول without either _kasre _or _eh _after عالم. In colloquial Persian the suffix _eh (_with mute_ h) _is usually a definite article. However, I have no idea what this _eh _does here at the end, especially when I consider its synonymous expression یه دنیا which never gets any suffix or _ezaafe_.


So  is یه عالمِ پول (ie. عالم not عالمه , but with an ezaafe after عالم)  incorrect, then, for colloquial Persian? In other words is یه عالمه فلان  چیز the only acceptable way to word this in colloquial Persian, or is یه عالمِ فلان چیز OK too?



Qureshpor said:


> As the pronounciation of 3aalam + izaafat is  the same as 3aalam + h, could it be that it is a misprint?


That was my first thought too, but searching Google for یه عالمه پول turns up far too many results for it to be a typo.


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## Treaty

eskandar said:


> So  is یه عالمِ پول (ie. عالم not عالمه , but with an ezaafe after عالم)  incorrect, then, for colloquial Persian? In other words is یه عالمه فلان  چیز the only acceptable way to word this in colloquial Persian, or is یه عالمِ فلان چیز OK too?



Yes, یه عالمِ is incorrect. The proof is that we use it even without the following noun which doesn't make sense if it was _ezaafe_. For example:

Q: چه قدر پول داره؟
A: یه عالمه


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## eskandar

I see. Given that and what you said about stress, I think one should say /ye aalaME pul/ and not /ye aaLAme pul/ , right?


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## Treaty

eskandar said:


> I see. Given that and what you said about stress, I think one should say /ye aalaME pul/ and not /ye aaLAme pul/ , right?



Exactly.


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## Qureshpor

OK, gentlemen, another possible solution.

You know that in Classical Persian, the "ye" of unity/indefiniteness was pronounced like the "a" in the English word "aim". This "ye" is not written as ی but a ے in my part of the world. So, Hafiz's following shi3r would be written in the following manner.

اگرچہ دوست  بہ چیزے نمیخرد ما را
بہ عالمے نفروشیم موئے از سر دوست

Another example.

پولے ھنگفتے دادم I paid a whole shedload of money. (This is equivalent to یکے عالمے)

I would like to propose that the colloquial یھ عالمھ is in reality یک عالمے because عالمے in Classical was pronounced exactly the same as عالمھ in the modern colloquial.

Your thoughts?


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## Qureshpor

Qureshpor said:


> OK, gentlemen, another possible solution.
> 
> You know that in Classical Persian, the "ye" of unity/indefiniteness was pronounced like the "a" in the English word "aim". This "ye" is not written as ی but a ے in my part of the world. So, Hafiz's following shi3r would be written in the following manner.
> 
> اگرچہ دوست  بہ چیزے نمیخرد ما را
> بہ عالمے نفروشیم موئے از سر دوست
> 
> Another example.
> 
> پولے ھنگفتے دادم I paid a whole shedload of money. (This is equivalent to یکے عالمے)
> 
> I would like to propose that the colloquial یھ عالمھ is in reality یک عالمے because عالمے in Classical was pronounced exactly the same as عالمھ in the modern colloquial.
> 
> Your thoughts?


It would be interesting to know if fdb SaaHib has any views on this supposition.


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## marrish

I am well aware, also thanks to your posts, QP, that the indefinite ye was pronounced "e" but the fact that it is not pronounced so anymore in Persian is a fact which you can't deny nor I can. Your hypothesis which I find formidable implies that in the spoken Iranian language this pronunciation, that is to say "e" resurfaces.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I am well aware, also thanks to your posts, QP, that the indefinite ye was pronounced "e" but the fact that it is not pronounced so anymore in Persian is a fact which you can't deny nor I can. Your hypothesis which I find formidable implies that in the spoken Iranian language this pronunciation, that is to say "e" resurfaces.


It is not unknown for features of a Classical language to linger on within colloquial speech. In colloquial Arabic for example "lammaa" (when) is alive and kicking but in Standard Arabic, it is pretty rare if non-existent. I can't see why this phenomenon can not resurface in colloquial Persian. Besides, if the Classical e (represented in our part of the world in the final position as ے) were to be represented by a ی, there would be no way of distinguishing this sound (-e) from the modern ی for -ii. Hence the employment of ہ in عالمہ.

If it is "proof" that is required, you will find the Indo-Persian بلے written as بلھ in colloquial Persian.


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## mussi88

when it comes to pronunciation, I've heard " aalame", "aalam" and "aalama". Standard iranian farsi will be "aalame" but in south Iran, you can hear "alaam" and in some parts you will hear "aalama". 
the first time i got confused was at a «ساندویچی» where people with southie accents asked for «نون اضاف» instead of «نونِ اضافه» (ezafe) for an extra bread.


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