# I would like to enter each passage



## Hunter-Devlin

Hello again.  Thank you for the continuing help.  All of you are so wonderful and appreciated.

I have a letter to write and I am stumbling again. I have been able to figure out some of the passages prior to the one below but am stuck on this one. If you can offer any help, I would be again, most grateful. This letter is addressed to a man and I am a woman, in the event it changes the wording at all

_"I would like to enter each passage, # 1, 2 & 3, separately in my book....#1 the "forward", # 2 a forward to chapter 8 and # 3, a forward to chapter 4. _
_Please write them each separatly...in your own handwriting and of course in Italian ...and please be sure to sign each one for me.  I will be, of course, entering the translation on the opposite page."_


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

_separately_

what is "a forward to chapter ..." ? do you mean *foreword*?  

I am missing the general significance...
each passage must be signed ? What do you mean?


----------



## DAH

Hunter-Devlin said:
			
		

> Hello again. Thank you for the continuing help. All of you are so wonderful and appreciated.
> 
> I have a letter to write and I am stumbling again. I have been able to figure out some of the passages prior to the one below but am stuck on this one. If you can offer any help, I would be again, most grateful. This letter is addressed to a man and I am a woman, in the event it changes the wording at all
> 
> _"I would like to enter each passage, # 1, 2 & 3, separately in my book....#1 the "forward", # 2 a forward to chapter 8 and # 3, a forward to chapter 4. _
> _Please write them each separatly...in your own handwriting and of course in Italian ...and please be sure to sign each one for me. I will be, of course, entering the translation on the opposite page."_


 Is this work-related? If it is, why don't you expense it, if not, are you avoiding paying a "living wage" to someone?


----------



## Hunter-Devlin

I am sorry.  You misunderstand.  I am not trying to "avoid paying someone a living wage" as you have put it!

I am writing a book and have been writing it on my own with my own nickle for over two years.  It is near completiong now and I have some wonderful Italian people that only speak Italian but are supporting my efforts to PROMOTE the area.

I am very sorry to have bothered you.


----------



## Elisa68

Hunter-Devlin said:
			
		

> _"I would like to enter each passage, # 1, 2 & 3, separately in my book....#1 the "forward", # 2 a forward to chapter 8 and # 3, a forward to chapter 4. _
> _Please write them each separatly...in your own handwriting and of course in Italian ...and please be sure to sign each one for me. I will be, of course, entering the translation on the opposite page."_


Mi piacerebbe cominciare (segnalare) ogni passaggio, n.1, 2 e 3, separatamente nel mio libro...n.1 "il richiamo", n. 2 un richiamo al capitolo 8 e n. 3 un richiamo al capitolo 4.
Per favore, scrivine ciascuno separatamente...a mano e, chiaramente, in italiano...e per cortesia assicurati di firmarne ognuno per me. Certamente, forniro' la traduzione nella pagina opposta.

I am sorry it is not very clear and I am not completely sure. Maybe it would be better to wait for other opinions (Lsp, Elaine, where are you?)


----------



## Hunter-Devlin

Thank you!  You are an angel to reply.  I am sure this will be good enough to get the message to this friend of mine in Toscana that cannot speak English at all well and needs me to write in Italian.  He is writing the forward to a book I have been writing and researching for over 2years now.  I do not yet have it published.  So...I truly appreciate all you try to do.

Did you wonder where I was?  Your signature says; Where are you?  
If so....I am located in Southern California, USA.  Are you in Italy?

Thank you, thank you for your kindness and help.
Hunter


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

Ah FORWARD significa "richiamo". Grazie Elisa68, questa parola cosi' importante sorprendentemente mi mancava!  

Comunque l'ho cercata in alcuni vocabolari è non ho trovato questo significato, mi domando come mai !?



			
				Elisa68 said:
			
		

> Mi piacerebbe cominciare (segnalare) ogni passaggio, n.1, 2 e 3, separatamente nel mio libro...n.1 "il richiamo", n. 2 un richiamo al capitolo 8 e n. 3 un richiamo al capitolo 4.
> Per favore, scrivine ciascuno separatamente...a mano e, chiaramente, in italiano...e per cortesia assicurati di firmarne ognuno per me. Certamente, forniro' la traduzione nella pagina opposta.
> 
> I am sorry it is not very clear and I am not completely sure. Maybe it would be better to wait for other opinions (Lsp, Elaine, where are you?)


----------



## Elisa68

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Ah FORWARD significa "richiamo". Grazie Elisa68, questa parola cosi' importante sorprendentemente mi mancava!
> 
> Comunque l'ho cercata in alcuni vocabolari è non ho trovato questo significato, mi domando come mai !?


No, veramente non ne sono sicura, come ho scritto nel mio post. Secondo me dovrebbe essere _prefazione,_ che si traduce _foreword_, come avevi giustamente indicato tu. Ma siccome lei ha ignorato il tuo post ho pensato che intendesse qualcosa di diverso.


----------



## sweet_jane

Elisa68 said:
			
		

> No, veramente non ne sono sicura, come ho scritto nel mio post. Secondo me dovrebbe essere _prefazione,_ che si traduce _foreword_, come avevi giustamente indicato tu.


 
Ciao Elisa

Forse "forward" e "foreword" si pronunciano allo stesso modo? Questo potrebbe spiegare la confusione.


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

And what is the "*opposite*" page??

is it "il *retro della pagina*" or "la *pagina di fronte*"  

Why don't you, Hunter, rewrite the sentence you want translated in good English so that we can attempt a translation without too much guessing ?

Also what do you mean by signing the *forewords*?

Try to explain the context. It's not clear (to me)


----------



## ElaineG

The opposite page is la pagina di fronte (also called "the facing page").


----------



## You little ripper!

_Foreword_ is _prefazione_.


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Tu quoque, Charles, amici mi !


What does that mean Tommaso?


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

I was expressing my surprise that this word is so easily mispelled by natives... perhaps isn't much used !?


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I was expressing my surprise that this word is so easily mispelled by natives... perhaps isn't much used !?


The word is very common but because it is pronounced exactly the same as _forward,_ as sweet jane suggested in post 9, a lot of people misspell it.


----------



## Alfry

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> What does that mean Tommaso?


 
this is what Giulio Cesare said to his son before (or after... I' don't remember that at the moment, I was'n invited) he stabbed him

*Tu quoque, Brutus*, *fili mi! *


----------



## winnie

tu quoque *Brute*, fili mi!
(è il vocativo di Brutus)
anche tu o Bruto, figlio mio!


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

Before someone asks me why I didn't write "Charli*e*", remember that foreign words are not to be inflected  



			
				winnie said:
			
		

> tu quoque *Brute*, fili mi!
> (è il vocativo di Brutus)
> anche tu o Bruto, figlio mio!


----------



## You little ripper!

Alfry said:
			
		

> this is what Giulio Cesare said to his son before (or after... I' don't remember that at the moment, I was'n invited) he stabbed him
> 
> *Tu quoque, Brutus*, *fili mi! *


I understand what the expression means.  I couldn't understand why Tommaso was using it.  I wasn't accusing anyone of misspelling it.  I merely stated what the Italian word was since there seemed to a bit of confusion about that, due to the misspelling.


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

Actually Charles, what you say seems to have deeper implications.

If this word is easily mispelled and confused with _forward_ there must me some reason. It means they do not really see it as formed by *fore+word*, and instead they somehow perceive in it some "*forward*" component. I think if one sees it as composed by fore+*word*, and being "_word_" very common, it would be impossible to misspell it. I am wondering whether some native perceive this word with some "forward" meaning inside ... 

does this question make sense? 



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> The word is very common but because it is pronounced exactly the same as _forward,_ as sweet jane suggested in post 9, a lot of people misspell it.


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

No, that isn't the meaning.

This is said typically when someone does something you would not have expected he would do (by analogy with the fact that Cesare would not have expected that Bruto also would hit him). 

Is it clear?



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I understand what the expression means. I couldn't understand why Tommaso was using it. I wasn't accusing anyone of misspelling it. I merely stated what the Italian word was since there seemed to a bit of confusion about that, due to the misspelling.


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Actually Charles, what you say seems to have deeper implications.
> 
> If this word is easily mispelled and confused with _forward_ there must me some reason. It means they do not really see it as formed by *fore+word*, and instead they somehow perceive in it some "*forward*" component. I think if one see it as composed by fore+*word*, and being "_word_" very common, it would be impossible to misspell it. I am wondering whether some native perceive this word with some "forward" meaning inside ...
> 
> does this question make sense?


Yes, that would be a very good way of remembering the spelling Tommaso.
I'm sure that there are many words that Italians misspell in their own language for the very same reason.


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

In italian there isn't much to misspell, since the writing reflects consistently the pronunciation. Sometimes we can get fooled by double consonants:

example:

obiettivo
obbiettivo



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Yes, that would be a very good way of remembering the spelling Tommaso.
> I'm sure that there are many words that Italians misspell in their own language for the very same reason.


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> No, that isn't the meaning.
> 
> This is said typically when someone does something you would not have expected he would do (by analogy with the fact that Cesare would not have expected that Bruto also would hit him).
> 
> Is it clear?


According to the American Heritage Dictionary it means:  _A retort accusing an accuser of a similar offense or similar behavior. _


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

I can see they are trying to figure out a meaning from a literal translation ("*You too*") 

I am amazed so see that on such an authoritative reference  , although I guess that if you say *"tu quoque"* only (without the vocative, which would recall the Caesar's phrase), that could be an acceptable (albeit questionable) interpretation...

Is that *really* what you understand in English??


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I can see they are trying to figure out a meaning from a literal translation ("*You too*") but that seems completely silly to me!!
> 
> I am amazed so see that on such an authoritative reference  , although I guess that if you say *"tu quoque"* only (without the vocative, which would recall the Caesar's phrase), that could be an acceptable interpretation...
> 
> Is that *really* what you understand in English??


The Encarta dictionary gives the same meaning:
*Used to accuse accuser: *used when accused of an offense to accuse the accuser of the same offense.


----------



## Tommaso Gastaldi

It seems we learned something new.
Very good to know that, to avoid misunderstandings!!

I show you how we use it in Italian:
http://www.lavoce.info/news/view.php?cms_pk=1476
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque_Brute_fili_mi
http://www.atalanews.it/giornale/articolo.asp?ID=985
http://www.rolliblog.net/archives/2003/05/04/tu_quoque_.html
http://www.ragionpolitica.it/testo.3315.html
...etc...


_Tu quoque.
_Anche tu! _
Svetonio (Svetonio, Vita di Cesare (82).)_
"Si usa per stigmatizzare il comportamento sorprendente di una persona, ... Dalle parole pronunciate da Cesare quando riconobbe Marco Bruto tra i suoi uccisori: tu quoque, Brute fili mi, "anche tu Bruto, figlio mio".
http://www.efira.com/locuzioni_latine/index_t.htm


I think that to avoid misundertandings, it is always to use the *vocative* also (as I did ) ex: Tu quoque, Elaine! 

Even though, at this point I am not sure it would help much !  




			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> The Encarta dictionary gives the same meaning:
> _*Used to accuse accuser: *used when accused of an offense to accuse the accuser of the same offense._


----------



## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> It seems we learned something new.
> Very good to know that, to avoid misunderstandings!!
> 
> I show you how we use it in Italian:
> http://www.lavoce.info/news/view.php?cms_pk=1476
> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque_Brute_fili_mi
> http://www.atalanews.it/giornale/articolo.asp?ID=985
> http://www.rolliblog.net/archives/2003/05/04/tu_quoque_.html
> http://www.ragionpolitica.it/testo.3315.html
> ...etc...
> 
> 
> _Tu quoque._
> Anche tu!
> _Svetonio (Svetonio, Vita di Cesare (82).)_
> "Si usa per stigmatizzare il comportamento sorprendente di una persona, ... Dalle parole pronunciate da Cesare quando riconobbe Marco Bruto tra i suoi uccisori: tu quoque, Brute fili mi, "anche tu Bruto, figlio mio".
> http://www.efira.com/locuzioni_latine/index_t.htm
> 
> 
> I think that to avoid misundertandings, it is always to use the *vocative* also (as I did ) ex: Tu quoque, Elaine!
> 
> Even though, at this point I am not sure it would help much !


Thank you Tommaso.  History is interpreted differently by different nations for obvious reasons and is reflected in the meanings given for certain words or phrases used at the time.


----------



## ElaineG

> This is typically said when someone does something you would not have expected him to do (by analogy with the fact that Cesare would not have expected that Bruto would also stab him).


 
That's the way I've always understand the phrase, or as it is more commonly rendered in English (quoting from Shakespeare), "et tu, Brute?", usually in the context of betrayal or turning on someone.  The meaning that Charles cites would be less familiar to me.

E.g.,

Friend A:  I don't really like this new chocolate dessert you made, Elaine, it's too sweet.

Elaine:  Really?  That's strange; B seemed to love it.

Friend B:  Actually, I was just being polite.  It _is _too sweet.

Elaine:  Et tu, Brute?  (or simply, jokingly, "Thanks, Brutus!").


----------



## Hunter-Devlin

Yikes!  I see I have caused quite some confusion with my misspelling the word _foreword._ 
This is a repeated 'typo' ( quick typing mistake) that I so often make when I am in such a hurry and in the state of exhaustion I have been in trying to meet deadlines.  I feel terrible that I caused so much trouble and discussion regarding this simple word.  

However, I think you are correct..._forward and foreword_ are perhaps confused a lot.

 I will make very sure to check over any spelling errors in the future.  

Many thank to all of you who responded.
Hunter


----------



## Elisa68

Then I have to review my translation:

Mi piacerebbe cominciare (segnalare) ogni passaggio, n.1, 2 e 3, separatamente nel mio libro...n.1 "Prefazione", n. 2 una prefazione al capitolo 8 e n. 3 una prefazione al capitolo 4.
Per favore, scrivine ciascuna separatamente...a mano e, chiaramente, in italiano...e per cortesia assicurati di firmarne ognuna per me. Certamente, forniro' la traduzione nella pagina di fronte*. 


*_di fronte_ Copyright Elaine


----------



## Hunter-Devlin

Thank you Elaine-

I apologize for the confusion in the misspelling of the word, _foreward, _which I seemed to have typed in over and over again as _forward_.

This has caused great confusion.  

Thank you for your input.  It is most appreciated.
Hunter


----------



## Elisa68

You are welcome (I am Elisa, BTW)
You don't have to apologize, I misspell words and/or reverse letters in every post I write.


----------

