# Brunette = Moreno?



## Rikki

I've searched the word "brunette" in a dictionary, it means "morena/o". But there's one tiny problem; in my country, specially where I live, "moreno/a" is referring to a brown-skinned person. Instead, "brunette" is a dark-haired person, not necessarily with brown skin. So I was wondering: is there one single word that can describe a brown-skinned person that?
Can I use the word "brunette" to describe a black person, not necessarily with dark hair?


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## NerdBird

A brunette is a person of any skin color that has brown hair


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## fenixpollo

If I understand you correctly, you are looking for a word in English like "moreno", which describes a person with darker skin (as opposed to having lighter skin). Is that right?

No, there is no word in English for that, as far as I know.  If you give us the sentence you want to translate in Spanish, we can help you find a natural-sounding (and inoffensive) translation for "moreno".


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## NerdBird

In translations of hispanic literature, _moreno_ is often left untranslated.


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## sandpiperlily

NerdBird said:


> In translations of hispanic literature, _moreno_ is often left untranslated.



I have seen it translated as "swarthy," but I believe this word has some ugly racial connotations and wouldn't recommend it.


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## Rikki

Well, "swarthy" might be great, it refers to the skin colour. Not as brunette which refers to hair colour.  "Swarthy" is an adjetive. Does it exist a noun which can describe a person of, not dark, pretty dark skin, kinda like brown skin?

I can give  a sentence in Spanish....
"_una morena de ojos verdes muy linda_"
in my country "morena/o" means: a person with dark skin tone...


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## clanndaeid

> Can I use the word "brunette" to describe a black person, not necessarily with dark hair?



No. Brunette is used to describe a woman with black hair and varying shades of lighter skin. I've never heard of referring to a black person with any hair color as a 'brunette.'

If 'morena' alone doesn't cut it in Colombia, maybe you need to go with something like 'morena de piel clara.'


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## sandpiperlily

clanndaeid said:


> No. Brunette is used to describe a woman with black hair and varying shades of lighter skin. I've never heard of referring to a black person with any hair color as a 'brunette.'



In the US, I believe the term "brunette" is applied to people of all races, although it is more frequently used to distinguish between white people (since, barring coloring / wigs / weaves) they are the most likely to be non-brunettes.


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## clanndaeid

> In the US, I believe the term "brunette" is applied to people of all races, although it is more frequently used to distinguish between white people (since, barring coloring / wigs / weaves) they are the most likely to be non-brunettes.



Interesting. I lived almost 40 years in the States, and don't recall hearing this usage, but, heck, it wouldn't be the first detail of American culture that went right by me.


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## jorgema

sandpiperlily said:


> In the US, I believe the term "brunette" is applied to people of all races, although it is more frequently used to distinguish between white people (since, barring coloring / wigs / weaves) they are the most likely to be non-brunettes.



So Beyonce, Janet Jackson and Lucy Liu are _brunettes_? I don't think so. _brunette_ is applied to white girls/women with dark hair. I am not sure, if it can be used talking about men.


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## k-in-sc

A non-pejorative translation of "morena" is "olive-skinned," or "(with an) olive complexion."
"Brunette" does refer only to a woman's hair color. Black women would not be described as "brunette."
"Brunette," from the French, is a feminine term and is not used for men.


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## Rikki

OK, as far as I've understood, I can't use "brunette" for a dark-skinned person...
"_una morena de ojos verdes muy linda_"="_a cute brown-skinned girl with green eyes_"
something like that,... am I right? brown-skinned? It's the only word that comes to my mind to translate "morena"


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## k-in-sc

A cute brunette with olive complexion and green eyes.
"Brown-skinned" sounds kind of Third World (sorry).


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## cocoguagua

My try:  olive-skinned, beige-skinned, tan-skinned.


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## gengo

Rikki said:


> "_una morena de ojos verdes muy linda_"



a dark-skinned beauty with green eyes (if she is not Caucasian)
a deeply tanned beauty with green eyes (if she is Caucasian)



clanndaeid said:


> Brunette is used to describe a woman with black hair and varying shades of lighter skin.



No, not black, brown.  It comes from the French word for brown.



> I've never heard of referring to a black person with any hair color as a 'brunette.'



I agree, despite what SandPiperLily says.  It is only used to refer to Caucasian women, since Asians, Latinas, and Blacks naturally have black hair, so no special word is needed to describe their natural hair color.  It would sound silly to say "a brunette African-American."

And I agree that morena is often left untranslated in English.


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## k-in-sc

cocoguagua said:


> My try:  olive-skinned , beige-skinned, tan-skinned.


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## Rikki

k-in-sc said:


> A cute brunette with olive complexion and green eyes.
> "Brown-skinned" sounds kind of Third World (sorry).


Not brunette. It's an afro-american female (_so to speak_) with green eyes.
Is there a word, a single word to describe an afro-american female?!


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## gengo

Rikki said:


> Is there a word, a single word to describe an Afro-American female?!



No.


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## k-in-sc

"Tan" and "tanned" mean tanned by the sun, bronceada.
"Brown-skinned" or "bronze-skinned" (more exotic) would work for a woman with African blood who was not black.
Maybe it would help to compare the person to a well-known green-eyed African-American woman, such as Tyra Banks.


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## Rikki

k-in-sc said:


> "
> "Brown-skinned" or "bronze-skinned" (more exotic) would work for a woman with African blood who was not black.


I think "brown-skinned" is good, I'd used it before...
But I don't know if "a cute brown-skinned green-eyed girl" would work...
Maybe "a cute brown-skinned girl with green eyes"...


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## asm

Rikki said:


> Not brunette. It's an afro-american female (_so to speak_) with green eyes.
> Is there a word, a single word to describe an afro-american female?!


ya no entiendo la pregunta,?estAs buscando una palabra para describir a una mujer (cualquiera) de raza negra?

Espero no estemos yendo en el sentido de resucitar las castas


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## gengo

Context is everything, but in _some_ contexts, you could also say "a pretty mulatto girl with green eyes."


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## Rikki

asm said:


> ya no entiendo la pregunta,?estAs buscando una palabra para describir a una mujer (cualquiera) de raza negra?
> 
> Espero no estemos yendo en el sentido de resucitar las castas


Exactly!!!

My mistake if I didn't give you all a context, but most people translate "brunette" as "morena". And  "brunette" describes a dark-haired woman of any skin colour. Sadly the word "morena", in some countries like Cuba or Colombia, may refer too to a woman of dark complexion, most of the time of African ancestries...


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## k-in-sc

gengo said:


> Context is everything, but in _some_ contexts, you could also say "a pretty mulatto girl with green eyes."


"Mulatto" suena fatal. Sorry.
"a cute brown-skinned girl with green eyes"...


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## gengo

Rikki said:


> My mistake if I didn't give you all a context, but most people translate "brunette" as "morena". And  "brunette" describes a dark-haired woman of any skin colour. Sadly the word "morena", in some countries like Cuba or Colombia, may refer too to a woman of dark complexion, most of the time of African ancestries...


No offense, but your posts are very confusing.  "Brunette" does not "describ[e] a dark-haired woman of any skin colour."  It refers to a white woman with dark brown (not black) hair.  And if people are translating brunette as morena, then that is probably a mistranslation, since morena refers to skin color, while brunette refers to hair color.





k-in-sc said:


> "Mulatto" suena fatal. Sorry.


No need to be sorry, but why does it sound bad to you?  As I tried to indicate, it certainly is not appropriate in all (or even most) contexts, but it _sounds_ perfectly correct and natural.  It is by definition exactly what the original here is referring to (the green eyes imply a mixed-race person with African and European ancestry).


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## k-in-sc

"Mulatto" isn't a good term for a mixed-race person, at least here. It brings back too many memories of the bad old days.


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## clanndaeid

> And if people are translating brunette as morena, then that is probably a mistranslation, since morena refers to skin color, while brunette refers to hair color.



Thanks, gengo.


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## asm

Rikki said:


> My mistake if I didn't give you all a context, but most people translate "brunette" as "morena". And  "brunette" describes a dark-haired woman of any skin colour. Sadly the word "morena", in some countries like Cuba or Colombia, may refer too to a woman of dark complexion, most of the time of African ancestries...



There is no way for us to agree on "morena" as we give different meanings to the word. In Mexico it's describes skin more than hair, but it's not for African descendant; we use the term for Native people (or just dark (not black) skin).
In Mexico most people are morenos in some degree; let's say that India is a country for morenos, but Nigeria is not.
We will never set a common ground with moreno. We don't even agree within the same language, much less between them.


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## k-in-sc

I remember Cuban girls in my high school Spanish class giggling at "moreno" (given as "brunette") because to them it meant "black person."


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## Rikki

gengo said:


> No offense, but your posts are very confusing.  "Brunette" does not "describ[e] a dark-haired woman of any skin colour."  It refers to a white woman with dark brown (not black) hair.  And if people are translating brunette as morena, then that is probably a mistranslation, since morena refers to skin color, while brunette refers to hair color.


Ok, Ok,
brunette="white woman with dark brown hair"
So is there a word for "morena _(referring to skin colour)_" in english...?


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## gengo

Rikki said:


> So is there a word for "morena _(referring to skin colour)_" in English...?



See post #19.  And then re-read all the other posts, which tell you that the translation will depend on the exact context.  There is no single, correct translation.


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## k-in-sc

Rikki said:


> So is there a word for "morena _(referring to skin colour)_" in *E*nglish...?


Brown-skinned (adj.).


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## Rikki

Ok, thanks...


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## sandpiperlily

I'm really interested to see that other folks don't think that "brunette" would ever apply to a non-white person.  I would definitely describe Janet Jackson and Lucy Liu as brunettes, especially since women of non-white backgrounds are so often lightening their hair (and wearing wigs, extensions, and weaves to imitate white women's hair) these days.  As I said, it's most often used to distinguish white women, but I don't think it applies exclusively to white women.

I also don't think that brunettes have exclusively dark brown hair.  I'd consider anybody with brown hair to be a brunette, even someone with light-to-medium brown or dark auburn hair.


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## k-in-sc

Janet Jackson's and Lucy Liu's ethnicities are more important than their hair color when describing them. That's why they would not be likely to be called "brunettes."


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## sandpiperlily

k-in-sc said:


> Janet Jackson's and Lucy Liu's ethnicities are more important than their hair color when describing them. That's why they would not be likely to be called "brunettes."



I agree.  But if I were, for example, making a list of gorgeous brunettes for a fashion magazine, I would not hesitate to feature them!


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## k-in-sc

OK, I can agree with that. But the OP's question really is how to describe her(?) skin tone.


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## manicha

gengo said:


> No offense, but your posts are very confusing.  "Brunette" does not "describ[e] a dark-haired woman of any skin colour."  It refers to a white woman with dark brown (not black) hair.  And if people are translating brunette as morena, then that is probably a mistranslation, since morena refers to skin color, while brunette refers to hair color.



Well, I would like to point out that, at least in Spain, moreno/a can refer to skin and to hair colour. Simply check the WR online Spanish dictionary. With hair, it means very dark, almost black; and with skin, tanned or olive complexion.


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## LeoLeo9

I agree with manicha, moreover "moreno" is used to describe black people in an euphemistic way (in Spain), but it's not really common and I don't like it.


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## k-in-sc

It's clear that "moreno" means different things to different Spanish speakers. 
The OP is looking for a way to describe a particular complexion in English. 
One way that hasn't been suggested yet is "honey": "a cute green-eyed girl with a honey complexion," "a cute girl with green eyes and honey-colored skin." 
Honey comes in a lot of shades


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## NerdBird

Honey is a great suggestion


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## sandpiperlily

NerdBird said:


> Honey is a great suggestion



I consider "honey complexion" to be on the very light end of "morena" -- ie Beyonce, Eve, etc.


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## k-in-sc

I agree, but it also can be a weasel word if you want it to be ... Nothing wrong with choosing the best-sounding ways to describe your personal attributes


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## fabfour

mira a ver si te sirve
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=morena


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## koiver

http://eyeprime.blogspot.com/2011/04/elsa-pataky-strolling-in-miami.html

For example Elsa Pataky, they said that she is brunette...


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## k-in-sc

koiver said:


> http://eyeprime.blogspot.com/2011/04/elsa-pataky-strolling-in-miami.htmlFor example Elsa Pataky, they said that she is brunette...


She doesn't look very brunette to me.


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## Damnjoe

It seems to be as vague a concept in Spanish as it is in English.  In my classes I always teach "blond", "brunette/brown hair", and "black hair".  (I teach them that "blond" is different in English--I am "rubio" in Latin America, but I'm brunette in English) For skin color I teach "light skin", "dark skin", "black", "white", "asian", etc.  

Because when you start getting into skin color you start dealing with ethnicity, which is always a wishy washy definition. If you want to stay clear of ethnicity, you can use "light skin" and "dark skin", or "brown skin", etc. work too.


I always considered the work "brunette" to be independent of skin  color, but like someone mentioned it refers to innate characteristics,  not hair dye, and most black people aren't brunettes so it's not a common association.  

It's funny, this guy from Guam once was filling out an application with me in the US and it said "Black, Caucasian, Asian, Latino, Other" for ethnicity and he (He had dark brown skin) was kind of confused, but chose Black out of logical deduction, but then was like "How degrading!"


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## k-in-sc

Yes, racial categories are organized differently in this country:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2348630


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