# Hindi: Crossed legs



## Rainbowlight

Hello everyone,

I would like to know if the expression "sitting with the legs crossed" or "cross-legged" in Hindi makes use of the Hindi word for "cross" (meaning crucifix or a cross symbol).

Thank you very much.


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## Happu

It doesn't. 'Sitting cross-legged' is _paalthii maarkar (_or_ maarke) baiTHnaa_ or_ paalthii baañdhnaa / paalthii lagaanaa;_ there's nothing about a cross here.

_Paalthii_ from Skt. _paryastikaa, _'(the position of) sitting on the hams'_._


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## Dinraat

Happu said:


> 'Sitting cross-legged' is _paalthii maarkar (_or_ maarke) baiTHnaa_ or_ paalthii baañdhnaa / paalthii lagaanaa_


I've heard aaltii paaltii in Urdu too.


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## Happu

Dinraat said:


> I've heard aaltii paaltii in Urdu too.


Yes, the expression does exist in Hindi, too. 

In Hindi, both versions are valid, _paaltii_ or_ paalthi._


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## desi4life

I think “chaukrii maarkar (maarke) baiThnaa” can also mean sitting with the legs crossed.


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## Dinraat

desi4life said:


> chaukrii maarkar (maarke) baiThnaa


*ChaukRii
Yep, it has the same meaning as aaltii paaltii. I've never used aaltii paaltii myself, but I've heard it a couple of times.


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## littlepond

Dinraat said:


> I've heard aaltii paaltii in Urdu too.



Or "aaltii-maaltii," at least in the Hindi I'm used to.


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## Happu

desi4life said:


> I think “chaukrii maarkar (maarke) baiThnaa” can also mean sitting with the legs crossed.


Yes, _chaukRii._ It's also used in Punjabi. There's 'four' contained in the word (_chau-_), so the meaning is something like 'sitting with all fours crossed'.


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## littlepond

desi4life said:


> I think “chaukrii maarkar (maarke) baiThnaa” can also mean sitting with the legs crossed.



Yes, but do note that "chaukRii maar kar baiThnaa" is also a figurative expression for some things (e.g., someone sitting on a dharna).


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I would like to know if the expression "sitting with the legs crossed" or "cross-legged" in Hindi makes use of the Hindi word for "cross" (meaning crucifix or a cross symbol).
> 
> Thank you very much.


Hindi doesn't, and nor does English! The "cross" in the English "cross-legged" doesn't come from the Christian cross symbol or the crucifix!


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## Dinraat

littlepond said:


> Yes, but do note that "chaukRii maar kar baiThnaa" is also a figurative expression for some things (e.g., *someone sitting on a dharna*).


Interesting. That's the first time I've seen/heard it used like that.


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## Happu

In the context of yoga, meditation etc. there's also the word सुखासन (_sukhaasan_), lit. 'the easy position' (as opposed to the more difficult _padmaasan_); but it would sound odd if used outside of that context - at least to my ears.


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## Rainbowlight

Happu said:


> It doesn't. 'Sitting cross-legged' is _paalthii maarkar (_or_ maarke) baiTHnaa_ or_ paalthii baañdhnaa / paalthii lagaanaa;_ there's nothing about a cross here.
> 
> _Paalthii_ from Skt. _paryastikaa, _'(the position of) sitting on the hams'_._


Thank you.



Happu said:


> In the context of yoga, meditation etc. there's also the word सुखासन (_sukhaasan_), lit. 'the easy position' (as opposed to the more difficult _padmaasan_); but it would sound odd if used outside of that context - at least to my ears.


Fascinating fact. Thank you very much.



littlepond said:


> Hindi doesn't, and nor does English! The "cross" in the English "cross-legged" doesn't come from the Christian cross symbol or the crucifix!


Well, that is certainly disputable. I myself think that the word "cross" (meaning two perpendicular lines) pre-dates the term "Cross", as in the Christian symbol. Symbols where two lines intersect are extremely old and they're a feature of many cultures worlwide too.



Happu said:


> It doesn't. 'Sitting cross-legged' is _paalthii maarkar (_or_ maarke) baiTHnaa_ or_ paalthii baañdhnaa / paalthii lagaanaa;_ there's nothing about a cross here.
> 
> _Paalthii_ from Skt. _paryastikaa, _'(the position of) sitting on the hams'_._


I wonder if there's any other expression in Hindi that makes reference to a tailor's position when he or she is sewing a garment as another way of saying "cross-legged". Both French (_pose en tailleur_) and German (_im Schneidersitz_) make a clear reference to the old custom of tailors sewing in this position.

Thanks for your help.


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## Jashn

Rainbowlight said:


> Well, that is certainly disputable. I myself think that the word "cross" (meaning two perpendicular lines) pre-dates the term "Cross", as in the Christian symbol. Symbols where two lines intersect are extremely old and they're a feature of many cultures worlwide too.


I must admit, as a native speaker of English, I wholeheartedly share @littlepond's assertion that the term for cross/crucifix has nothing to do with the term to describe someone sitting cross-legged. I'm curious why one would draw the connection, and if it's simply because of the use of the word 'cross', does that mean one would look for connections everywhere that term is used?

The term 'crucifix' used to be privileged by English speakers to refer specifically to the crucifix Jesus died on, but when the Reformation occurred, and the Protestants wanted to establish their separate community, they privileged the term 'cross'. To this day, English-speaking Catholics typically say 'crucifix' vs. Protestants who'd say 'cross', and it can even be a community-marker in places like Northern Ireland as a subtle reminder of which community one belongs to (nationalist/loyalist), similar to the different pronunciation of the letter 'h' (loyalists tend to say 'aitch' vs nationalists who'd say 'haitch').

In other words, historically speaking, there were hundreds of years where all English speakers said only 'crucifix' to refer to the thing Jesus died on, so surely the term 'cross-legged' had no religious overtones/connections, and for this native speaker, still doesn't. Surely, sometimes a cross is just a cross?


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## Happu

Rainbowlight said:


> I wonder if there's any other expression in Hindi that makes reference to a tailor's position when he or she is sewing a garment as another way of saying "cross-legged". Both French (_pose en tailleur_) and German (_im Schneidersitz_) make a clear reference to the old custom of tailors sewing in this position.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


I have never come across a connection between tailors and a particular way of sitting in Hindi. After all, everyone used to sit like that in the India of old. I think in Ayurveda the position is even recommended during meal-time, as one has to bend over to grab the food off the plates placed on the floor, exerting pressure on the belly and thus preventing heavy eating.

Oddly in German, there seems to to the word "Türkensitz" ("the Turks' way of sitting") as a synonym for "Schneidersitz" - I say _oddly_, because despite being German myself I have never heard the word. It may hail from the 17th century Turkish invasion of Austria and is probably quite outdated (and non-pc) these days.


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> I wonder if there's any other expression in Hindi that makes reference to a tailor's position when he or she is sewing a garment as another way of saying "cross-legged".


 No such thing: almost everyone in India is comfortable sitting in a cross-legged position.


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## Rainbowlight

Jashn said:


> I must admit, as a native speaker of English, I wholeheartedly share @littlepond's assertion that the term for cross/crucifix has nothing to do with the term to describe someone sitting cross-legged. I'm curious why one would draw the connection, and if it's simply because of the use of the word 'cross', does that mean one would look for connections everywhere that term is used?
> 
> The term 'crucifix' used to be privileged by English speakers to refer specifically to the crucifix Jesus died on, but when the Reformation occurred, and the Protestants wanted to establish their separate community, they privileged the term 'cross'. To this day, English-speaking Catholics typically say 'crucifix' vs. Protestants who'd say 'cross', and it can even be a community-marker in places like Northern Ireland as a subtle reminder of which community one belongs to (nationalist/loyalist), similar to the different pronunciation of the letter 'h' (loyalists tend to say 'aitch' vs nationalists who'd say 'haitch').
> 
> In other words, historically speaking, there were hundreds of years where all English speakers said only 'crucifix' to refer to the thing Jesus died on, so surely the term 'cross-legged' had no religious overtones/connections, and for this native speaker, still doesn't. Surely, sometimes a cross is just a cross?


Maybe there is a misunderstanding here. When I say "cross-legged" I obviously am _not_ referring to, say, sitting on a chair with one leg over the other. I am talking about the so-called "lotus position" that some people adopt when meditating or as a way to sit comfortably on the ground. Now, when I think about this posture I find that it's quite obvious that the feet are placed on the opposite thighs, thus physically creating a cross-like shape because of the way the legs are set.

It should be understood that a cross shape (but of course!) does _*not*_ have to refer to the symbol of a Christian cross: an X form _is_ also a cross, a + sign _is_ another kind of cross. All of them are called crosses in the sense of the form that originates when two lines are perpendicular.

Thanks for all your comments. All feedback is more than welcome.



Happu said:


> I have never come across a connection between tailors and a particular way of sitting in Hindi. After all, everyone used to sit like that in the India of old. I think in Ayurveda the position is even recommended during meal-time, as one has to bend over to grab the food off the plates placed on the floor, exerting pressure on the belly and thus preventing heavy eating.
> 
> Oddly in German, there seems to to the word "Türkensitz" ("the Turks' way of sitting") as a synonym for "Schneidersitz" - I say _oddly_, because despite being German myself I have never heard the word. It may hail from the 17th century Turkish invasion of Austria and is probably quite outdated (and non-pc) these days.


Thank you very much.


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> It should be understood that a cross shape (but of course!) does _*not*_ have to refer to the symbol of a Christian cross: an X form _is_ also a cross, a + sign _is_ another kind of cross. All of them are called crosses in the sense of the form that originates when two lines are perpendicular.



Well, good that you have said what you wanted to say in a better manner. Because your OP had referred to the cross "symbol" (not "shape") and referred in particular to the crucifix.
A cross is a word denoting a particular alignment (two intersecting straight lines: they don't have to be perpendicular to each other), and since the Christian symbol is in the shape of a cross, that is also called a cross. Not the other way round.


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## Rainbowlight

littlepond said:


> Well, good that you have said what you wanted to say in a better manner. Because your OP had referred to the cross "symbol" (not "shape") and referred in particular to the crucifix.
> A cross is a word denoting a particular alignment (two intersecting straight lines: they don't have to be perpendicular to each other), and since the Christian symbol is in the shape of a cross, that is also called a cross. Not the other way round.





littlepond said:


> Well, good that you have said what you wanted to say in a better manner. Because your OP had referred to the cross "symbol" (not "shape") and referred in particular to the crucifix.
> A cross is a word denoting a particular alignment (two intersecting straight lines: they don't have to be perpendicular to each other), and since the Christian symbol is in the shape of a cross, that is also called a cross. Not the other way round.


It is certainly my fault and I should not have used the word "symbol" when I should be referring to a "cross" shape, which can take many forms. 

Thanks for your comment.


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## Babbagha2

Just adding my two cents to this interesting conversation:

In Urdu, there is also the expression _caar zaanuu baiThnaa_ (= cahaar zaanuu) which is the persianate equivalent to _aaltii paaltii maar kar baiThnaa. _It literaly means sit 'four-knees', which reminds me of the arabic equivalent of 'cross legged', the verb _tarabba3a / yatarabba3u > tarabbu3an _("Make oneself into four", or something like that).

I've also heard someone use _kuNDlii maar kar baiThnaa_, an obviously facetious take on the posture....


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## littlepond

Babbagha2 said:


> In Urdu, there is also the expression _caar zaanuu baiThnaa_ (= cahaar zaanuu) which is the persianate equivalent to _aaltii paaltii maar kar baiThnaa. _It literaly means sit 'four-knees', which reminds me of the arabic equivalent of 'cross legged', the verb _tarabba3a / yatarabba3u > tarabbu3an _("Make oneself into four", or something like that).
> 
> I've also heard someone use _kuNDlii maar kar baiThnaa_, an obviously facetious take on the posture....



Thanks for your inputs. In Hindi, too, both the expressions are used. (And there is "do zaanuu baiThnaa" as a quasi-synonym for "ukRuu baithnaa" = sitting on one's hams.)

As for "zaanuu," I thought it came from the Hindi word "jaanuu" for knee, which comes from Sanskrit. Does Persian also have a cognate "zaanuu"?


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## Alfaaz

babbagha2 said:
			
		

> It literaly means sit 'four-knees', which reminds me of the arabic equivalent of 'cross legged', the verb _tarabba3a / yatarabba3u > tarabbu3an _("Make oneself into four", or something like that).


In Urdu, there is _murabba3 (baiThnaa)_ as well from the Arabic usage you've detailed.


			
				littlepond said:
			
		

> (And there is "do zaanuu baiThnaa" as a quasi-synonym for "ukRuu baithnaa" = sitting on one's hams.)
> 
> As for "zaanuu," I thought it came from the Hindi word "jaanuu" for knee, which comes from Sanskrit. Does Persian also have a cognate "zaanuu"?


_chahaar zaanuu baiThnaa - to sit cross-legged_
_do zaanuu baiThnaa - to kneel; to squat_

جاثی - _jaathii_/_jaasii _- _kneeler_
_ukRuuN baiThnaa - to squat_

Yes, just like _ziirah _and _jiiraa_, etc.


> P زانو _zānū_ [Pehl. _shnuk_, _zānuk_; Zend _zhnu_; S. जानु], s.m. The knee; the lap


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