# Swedish: Difference between L and R (e.g. deklarerar)



## kilton

Hello,

Lately I've been practicing my Swedish R, primarily learning how to roll it. What I'm finding now however is that it's very similar to L, and I'm having trouble separating the two. I have the most amount of trouble with words like _deklarerar_, which to me are basically tongue twisters at this point.

Can anyone provide some insight as to how your tongue behaves with an (unrolled) R vs. an L? In words like _deklarera_r I find myself almost wanting to roll the L, so I'm clearly messed up somewhere.

Thanks!


----------



## LilianaB

It is not the same sound as L. It is similar to declaration in English, I think. I think it might help if you first say deklarera and then deklarerar.


----------



## Meryle

I wouldn't worry too much, Kilton. If you pronounce the "l" and the "r" as in English, you will be understood. The Swedish "r" sounds different in different parts of the country anyway (more or less rolled, more or less guttaral).


----------



## kilton

Thanks folks. I know I'll be understood regardless, but I'm trying to get it right for my own satisfaction. 

If anyone would be willing to describe how their tongue differs between the first L and first R in _deklarera_, I'd be greatful! I have the same problem with _lärare_.


----------



## Ben Jamin

kilton said:


> Thanks folks. I know I'll be understood regardless, but I'm trying to get it right for my own satisfaction.
> 
> If anyone would be willing to describe how their tongue differs between the first L and first R in _deklarera_, I'd be greatful! I have the same problem with _lärare_.


Pronouncing L your tongue sides touch the side gums and the tongue tip touches the front upper gums, with the R it is only  the tongue tip that touches the front upper gums.


----------



## Zmaj

I agree with Ben Jamin. When pronouncing the L I really press the whole tongue towards where teeth and upper gums meet and keep it there for some time, while I just swiftly touch the upper gums further back, far from my teeth when pronouncing the R.


----------



## kilton

Thanks! This is helpful. I'll keep practicing.


----------



## cocuyo

I think the basic difficulty for US English speakers is that the r sound of various other languages does not exist in their dialect. So there are two different problems involved, one is the switch between l and r, the other is actually just pronouncing r at all. 

When training phonetics that are new, it might help to play with the sound. One peculiarity with these sounds is that they are often bound in a pair with an explosive sound, as the clusives k, p or t, whereupon the other sound with similar tongue position comes soon after. Some of those combinations are easier than other, and there you can have one way to practice other sequences that are not as difficult as _deklarera_. It could even be quite nonsensical, as "tralala", or "tripp trapp trull" which I regard a lot easier. Once the sound is mastered, it is less difficult to do the more tongue-twisting sequences.

As a side note to this, it is a common treat in Spanish, to switch r to l and the other way around; many speakers of some dialects do this without even thinking of it. In Santiago de Cuba for example, there are people that change almost every l to r and every r to l, reversing them completely. I guess it isn't very simple to distinguish those sounds.


----------



## Lugubert

One way that might make you pronounce the r is to rapidly say tadatadatada... You might end up with r's instead of the d's: tratra ...


cocuyo said:


> As a side note to this, it is a common treat in Spanish, to switch r to l and the other way around; many speakers of some dialects do this without even thinking of it. In Santiago de Cuba for example, there are people that change almost every l to r and every r to l, reversing them completely. I guess it isn't very simple to distinguish those sounds.


Compare the l/r variation in Romance words for 'tree'. Latin arbor, French arbre, Spanish árbol, Italian albero, Occitan arbre/albre/aubre, Portuguese árvore.

I shouldn't even mention Chinese and Japanese r/l...

So, Kilton, you´re not the only person with this problem.


----------



## Red Arrow

When I speak Dutch, I always pronounce r like [ɾ] and l like [l], so I shouldn't have a problem with Swedish r. Nevertheless, I have heard Swedish people pronounce rr at the end of a word like some kind of l-sound. For example: förr and dörr sound like 'föll' and 'döll'.

Am I the only one who hears this?


----------



## Wilma_Sweden

Red Arrow :D said:


> Am I the only one who hears this?


I certainly don't, but in this part of the country we exploit different parts of our mouths for the /r/ sound, a bit like the French /r/. On the whole, the Scanian dialect is reputed to be easier for English speakers to pronounce as we also have diphthongs... 
Samples of Swedish dialects can be found here: Våra svenska dialekter - SweDia 2000


----------



## Red Arrow

Uitspraken voor förr (van förr naar som förr)

They all pronounce förr with an r, except for the "förr-för" recording. I hear "förl-för". I also know a YouTube video where they clearly say förr with no r at all, but I don't think I can post it on this forum. It is from a children's show.


----------



## Wilma_Sweden

Red Arrow :D said:


> Uitspraken voor förr (van förr naar som förr)
> 
> They all pronounce förr with an r, except for the "förr-för" recording. I hear "förl-för". I also know a YouTube video where they clearly say förr with no r at all, but I don't think I can post it on this forum. It is from a children's show.


I hear r with or without trills all the time. I don't hear any l sounds. I didn't find the recording you mean ("förr-för"). In some cases with *för* you will indeed find the r extremely weak or omitted in fluent speech, particularly if followed by a word with the first syllable stressed. You can PM me the YouTube link of the TV show.


----------

