# כעוגה בלי הפוכה



## JLanguage

My dictionary translates that as _half-baked_. I really don't get that expression. 

Here's the context:

כי בלעונו זדים כעוגה בלי הפוכה.
(From the Yom Kippur Martyrology.)

Thanks,
-Jonathan.


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## amikama

JLanguage said:
			
		

> My dictionary translates that as _half-baked_. I really don't get that expression.
> 
> Here's the context:
> 
> כי בלעונו זדים כעוגה בלי הפוכה.
> (From the Yom Kippur Martyrology.)
> 
> Thanks,
> -Jonathan.


עוגה בלי הפוכה = עוגה לא הפוכה = עוגה חצי-אפויה

כי בלעונו זדים כעוגה בלי הפוכה = הזדים (=הרשעים) בלעו אותנו כמו שבולעים עוגה חצי-אפויה

In those days one had to turn over a cake to bake its second side. Hence a cake that wasn't turned over had only one side baked = half-baked cake. And eating a half-baked cake is not a great pleasure...

Hope it's clear now.


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## JLanguage

amikama said:
			
		

> עוגה בלי הפוכה = עוגה לא הפוכה = עוגה חצי-אפויה
> 
> כי בלעונו זדים כעוגה בלי הפוכה = הזדים (=הרשעים) בלעו אותנו כמו שבולעים עוגה חצי-אפויה
> 
> In those days one had to turn over a cake to bake its second side. Hence a cake that wasn't turned over had only one side baked = half-baked cake. And eating a half-baked cake is not a great pleasure...
> 
> Hope it's clear now.


 
The half-baked cake idiom doesn't really seem to as morose as the rest of the martyrology. They devoured us _like a half-baked cake_. It seems like it should be - they devoured us mercilessly or something like that.


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## utopia

עוגה בלי הפוכה   maybe you all meant - עוגה *בלתי* הפוכה ???


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## JLanguage

utopia said:
			
		

> עוגה בלי הפוכה maybe you all meant - עוגה *בלתי* הפוכה ???


 
Nope, the expression is definitely כעוגה בלי הפוכה


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## amikama

utopia said:
			
		

> עוגה בלי הפוכה maybe you all meant - עוגה *בלתי* הפוכה ???


That is what I thought at first. But I looked it up in my dictionary and surprisingly it said עוגה *בלי* הפוכה...

I've just looked it up in the Bible and found this:
אֶפְרַיִם, בָּעַמִּים הוּא יִתְבּוֹלָל; אֶפְרַיִם הָיָה *עֻגָה, בְּלִי הֲפוּכָה*.
(הושע ז,ח)


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## JLanguage

amikama said:
			
		

> That is what I thought at first. But I looked it up in my dictionary and surprisingly it said עוגה *בלי* הפוכה...
> 
> I've just looked it up in the Bible and found this:
> אֶפְרַיִם, בָּעַמִּים הוּא יִתְבּוֹלָל; אֶפְרַיִם הָיָה *עֻגָה, בְּלִי הֲפוּכָה*.
> (הושע ז,ח)


 
Please excuse my ignorance, but why is בלתי better than בלי?


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## amikama

JLanguage said:
			
		

> Please excuse my ignorance, but why is בלתי better than בלי?


בלי means "without" and therefore can't be followed by an adjective (at least in modern Hebrew). 
בלתי means "not".


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## kopo

After seeing this phrase in Yom Kippur services today, I also started researching it, and came across this excerpt from _A Critical Grammar of the Hebrew Language_ (1842), Vol II, p. 267, about the uses of בלי in Biblical Hebrew:


> _b._ Or with a passive participle to intimate a lack of the attribute which it denotes, e.g. בלי משיח בשמן _one without_ (being) _anointed with oil_, i.e. not anointed, 2 Sam. 1 : 21., עגה בלי הפוכה _a cake without_ (being) _turned_, i.e. not turned, Hos. 7 : 8., בלי נשמע קולם _without their voice_ (being) _heard_, i.e. where their voice is not heard, Ps. 19 : 4.



So apparently such usage is not unheard of.


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## shalom00

Yes, but it is not used that way in modern Hebrew.


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## kopo

shalom00 said:


> Yes, but it is not used that way in modern Hebrew.


Hence "the uses of בלי in Biblical Hebrew"


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## LXNDR

And it's unfortunate that such use isn't current as it's much more succinct than the modern phraseology.


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