# Slovak: Ja som neni



## Ayazid

Zdravím vespolek,

dnes jsem se dozvěděl, že v hovorové slovenštině je možné říct "ja som neni" vedle spisovného "nie som". Chtěl bych se zeptat jestli tahle konstrukce, která zní mým českým uším docela neobvykle (původně jsem si myslel, že to musí být překlep snad), je velmi rozšířená a ve kterých oblastech Slovenska se nejvíc používá. Taky by bylo zajímavé vědět jestli to není třeba doslovný překlad z nějakého jiného jazyka (snad maďarštiny nebo němčiny), což by dávalo smysl, vzhledem k tomu, že některé oblasti Slovenska byli/jsou národnostně docela smíšené.


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## Xmaniak

Ayazid said:


> Zdravím vespolek,
> 
> dnes jsem se dozvěděl, že v hovorové slovenštině je možné říct "ja som neni" vedle spisovného "nie som". Chtěl bych se zeptat jestli tahle konstrukce, která zní mým českým uším docela neobvykle (původně jsem si myslel, že to musí být překlep snad), je velmi rozšířená a ve kterých oblastech Slovenska se nejvíc používá. Taky by bylo zajímavé vědět jestli to není třeba doslovný překlad z nějakého jiného jazyka (snad maďarštiny nebo němčiny), což by dávalo smysl, vzhledem k tomu, že některé oblasti Slovenska byli/jsou národnostně docela smíšené.



Pokiaľ viem tak "Ja som neni." sa používa podobne často ako "Nie som.".


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## slavic_one

A hlavne sa to používa aj v iných osobách.
Vätšinou sa tak hovorí na západnom Slovensku, s tím, že sa to napr. v Trnave vyslovuje tvrdo (tzn. "n" sa v oboch prípadoch nemekčí).


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## bibax

Z maďarštiny to určitě není: nem vagyok = ne jsem
Možná z němčiny: ich bin nicht


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## Azori

slavic_one said:


> A hlavne sa to používa aj v iných osobách.
> Väčšinou sa tak hovorí na západnom Slovensku, s tým, že sa to napr. v Trnave vyslovuje tvrdo (tzn. "n" sa v oboch prípadoch nemäkčí).


Oprava 

Neni je nespisovný zápor, používa sa namiesto "nie", "nie je", napr. neni som = nie som, to neni = to nie je... Je to dosť bežné.


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## vianie

Čo ja viem, tak v Bratislave sa hovorí aj "nejsom" a na strednom Slovensku zas "ja som nie".



> sa to napr. v Trnave vyslovuje tvrdo (tzn. "n" sa v oboch prípadoch nemekčí).



V slovenskom Ríme údajne aj mačky mnaukajú. 

_Pozadie vzniku "trojjedinosti" slovenskej vravy je v skratke vysvetlené hneď na začiatku  tohto článku na Wikipédii._


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## slavic_one

vianie said:


> Čo ja viem, tak v Bratislave sa hovorí aj "nejsom" (...).


Tiež, hej.



			
				vianie said:
			
		

> V slovenskom Ríme údajne aj mačky mnaukajú.



When in Rome (Trnava), do as the Romans do. Tak aj tie mačky.


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## Fee.de.Foret

Pouziva sa to casto, ale je to nespisovne, cize v oficialnom pisomnom prejave alebo pred kamerou atd. riadne faux pas


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## boriszcat

My understanding is that this is not correct Slovak, but it is very common for native Slovak speakers to borrow Czech words freely and substitute them directly for similar words.


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## francisgranada

Even if it's an old thread, I'd like to add the following:

Expressions like "neni som", "neni sme", "ja som není" etc ...  are not used at all in East Slovakia. But the proper word "neni" (pronounced _ňeňi_) is very frequent and almost "regularly" used instead of "nie je" (like in Czech) in the colloquial speach.


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## francisgranada

boriszcat said:


> My understanding is that this is not correct Slovak, but it is very common for native Slovak speakers to borrow Czech words freely and substitute them directly for similar words.


It's not so simple ... It's fact that there is plenty of Slovak words that are borrowings (or adaptations) from Czech. This adaptations/borrowings happened not only during the period of Czechoslovakia, but even before, in the 19th century, when the standard Slovak language was "created". But it doesn't mean that nowadays it would be "common for native Slovak speakers to borrow Czech words freely". At least, I don't think so.


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## franglaiise

We do use Czech words and structures quite often. I think the reason is that Slovaks watch Czech TV a lot and as the two languages are so close, it is easy to pick up some frequently used Czech structures even if you're trying to resist and speak Slovak properly.


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## Azori

franglaiise said:


> We do use Czech words and structures quite often. I think the reason is that Slovaks watch Czech TV a lot and as the two languages are so close, it is easy to pick up some frequently used Czech structures even if you're trying to resist and speak Slovak properly.


I'm not sure if watching Czech TV can have any considerable influence on one's "proper Slovak". There are still a rather large number of common everyday Czech words for which standard Slovak doesn't have any (be it similar or identical) equivalents. Personally, I don't know anybody who would use even such common Czech words like _teď _(now), _zde_ (here), _mluvit_ (to speak), _dělat_ (to do) etc. freely in their Slovak. The verb _říci_ (to say) is also very common in Czech and yet in Slovak _riecť _is just considered literary and hardly ever used in colloquial speech. Regarding structures, I don't think that one can really pick up much here either. If say, in Czech "at eight o'clock in the morning" translates as "v osm hodin ráno" and in Slovak it is "o ôsmej hodine ráno", then just watching Czech TV certainly would not change my habits and make me use the preposition _v_ instead of _o_ in this case.


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## franglaiise

Of course, it's not only TV, it's other media as well. I'm not an expert but I dare say that we do pick up a lot even if there _is_ an equivalent in Slovak. Of course, we don't pick up all of it and I can't explain why we prefer one term or structure over another but it just happens.

People also use Slovak influenced by Czech in media. Don't know why, maybe they like it or they're too lazy to translate it properly. Anyway, we're exposed to Czech and to Slovak influenced by Czech quite a lot.  

Granted, nobody says _v osem hodín_ and yet there are Czech structures that we commonly use even though we have the equivalent for them. For example:

Petr je závislý *na* alkoholu. (CZ) – Peter je závislý *od* alkoholu. (correct SK) – Peter je závislý *na* alkohole. (commonly used SK)


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## Azori

franglaiise said:


> People also use Slovak influenced by Czech in media.


What do you mean by "Slovak influenced by Czech"? Is there (standard) Slovak that hasn't been influenced by Czech?


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## vianie

I think that the situation with the Czech influences on/in Slovak is not such terrible. What's perhaps more significant, it's not such one-sided. I've been increasingly confronted with the fact how some Czechs freely use Slovak words or accent in their speech and it's quite nice. However from #11 we are completely off-topic.


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