# It is high time <we went / to go>



## virr2

Hello 

Is there any difference between these two sentences?

a) It is high time we went
b) It is hight time to go

Could we say that sentence a) suggests that it might be a bit late now and sentence b) that it is the right time to go?

Best regards,
Virr


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## timpeac

They both suggest the same thing to me - that the optimal time to leave has either already passed or is in danger of passing very shortly so we'd better go now before it gets even later.


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## Donnie

I've only ever heard the first one. As it is a suggestion, I think the past tense is the correct form.


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## virr2

Thank You a lot.


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## viera

Your second sentence doesn't sound quite right to me, maybe because I don't think it is used impersonally.

It's high time you did your homework.
It's high time he got a job.


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## JamesM

I believe "high time" is always followed by the past tense, never the infinitive, and, as others have said, it's immediately followed by the person (or entity) you're berating.

"It's high time the government got a handle on crime in our streets", for example.


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## virr2

But I found such a sentence in a grammar book .


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## A90Six

virr2 said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> Is there any difference between these two sentences?
> 
> a) It is high time we went
> b) It is hight time to go
> 
> Could we say that sentence a) suggests that it might be a bit late now and sentence b) that it is the right time to go?
> 
> Best regards,
> Virr


*High time* means *the time by which something ought to have been done*.
As far as I am aware, the term is always used with a verb in the past tense.

a) It is high time we went.
b) It is high time to go.


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## Thomas1

If I may throw in my two cents. 


			
				viera said:
			
		

> Your second sentence doesn't sound quite right to me, maybe because I don't think it is used impersonally.
> 
> It's high time you did your homework.
> It's high time he got a job.


How would it sound after a small alteration?
It's high time for you to go... (...to bed, young lady)



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> I believe "high time" is always followed by the past tense, never the infinitive, and, as others have said, it's immediately followed by the person (or entity) you're berating.
> 
> "It's high time the government got a handle on crime in our streets", for example.





			
				A90Six said:
			
		

> High time means the time by which something ought to have been done.
> As far as I am aware, the term is always used with a verb in the past tense.
> 
> a) It is high time we went.
> b) It is high time to go.**


This construction is not followed by the past tense but by subjunctive. 

That's curious since I came across the option with infinitive in literature.
Here's an example:


> And now,' said she, 'you have been fed and warmed, and I have heard your story, and now it's high time to call your brother.
> R.L. Stevenson; _Tales and Fantasies_


This one is even impersonal.
I'm looking forward to your comments on that.


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## A90Six

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> If I may throw in my two cents worth.
> 
> 
> 
> viera said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your second sentence doesn't sound quite right to me, maybe because I don't think it is used impersonally.
> 
> It's high time you did your homework.
> It's high time he got a job.
> 
> 
> 
> How would it sound after a small alteration?
> It's high time for you to go... (...to bed, young lady).
> To me, wrong! It's high time you went... (to bed young lady).
> 
> 
> 
> A90Six said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *As far as I am aware*, the term is always used *with* a *verb* in the *past tense*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This construction is not followed by the past tense but by subjunctive.
> I did not say it should be followed by the past tense.
> 
> That's curious since I came across the option with infinitive in literature.
> Here's an example:
> 
> 
> 
> And now,' said she, 'you have been fed and warmed, and I have heard your story, and now it's high time to call your brother.
> R.L. Stevenson; _Tales and Fantasies._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This one is even impersonal.
> I'm looking forward to your comments on that.
> 
> We are none of us perfect. It should also be noted that Mr Stevenson was using quoted speech, wherein he may have allowed for a grammatical error, if indeed error it is.
Click to expand...


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## virr2

So, is there a difference between these two?

a) It is high time for me to go
b) It is hight time I went 

Very curious .


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## panjandrum

"It's high time" is followed by the subjunctive, so the difference between those two examples is that (a) is not idiomatic, (b) is

Edit:
Please see a few posts later for retraction.


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## virr2

Roma locuta causa finita. Panjandrum, thanks .

Virr


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## timpeac

"It's high time for me to go" sounds fine to me.


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## JamesM

panjandrum said:
			
		

> "It's high time" is followed by the subjunctive, so the difference between those two examples is that (a) is not idiomatic, (b) is


I don't think it's the subjunctive.  If the subjunctive were called for (), I believe the following would be correct:

It's high time he were going. 

_or
_
It's high time he go.

_rather than_

It's high time he went.


I'm pretty sure it's the past participle.


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## panjandrum

OK, it's not subjunctive 
Cancel that bit of research.  Well, now I read more closely, one of the places I looked is equivocal anyway.
It's past indicative - or one of those past forms.

It's high time I went ...
It's high time I was going ... - I think that sounds OK too.

... With apologies to those who said so earlier.

It's high time I stopped trying to answer grammar questions


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## virr2

Well, it is subjunctive - past subjunctive, Panjandrum was right.

"It is time he went" or "it is time he were leaving"

Cheers


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## justjukka

I'm most familiar with the first one, but with the second example in the mix, I suppose it depends on what you're trying to emphasize.  The choice of words can convey the urgency of the situation.


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## JamesM

virr2 said:
			
		

> Well, it is subjunctive - past subjunctive, Panjandrum was right.
> 
> "It is time he went" or "it is time he were leaving"
> 
> Cheers


 

First, "It is time" and "It is *high* time" are two different things. The "high time" is an idiomatic phrase.

It is high time he went 
It his high time he were leaving (??) (I don't think this works, but perhaps it could)

I know we would say:

"It is high time he got a job." 

but I can't imagine hearing

"It is high time he were getting a job." 

even though that is the past subjunctive.

Part of the meaning in "it is high time" is that it's actually _past_ time for whatever it is to occur. I think that's why the simple past (what I tend to call the past participle, which is probably wrong since there's no auxiliary verb) is used.


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## Thomas1

It’s high time we went
Uses past subjunctive and to me it slightly suggests that we should have already gone. IMHO it expresses a whish. Past tense of indicative is something different from past subjunctive, even though there is no “physical” difference in form. 

It’s high time for us to go
Uses infinitive and it conveys an idea that we should go at this moment, this one is an indication to leave.

From grammatical standpoint both are correct, the fact that most of native-speakers opt for a) tells us that it is more often used. This does not mean that the second one is wrong (maybe it’s used in specific situations or within a variety of English).




			
				panjandrum  said:
			
		

> "It's high time" is followed by the subjunctive, so the difference between those two examples is that (a) is not idiomatic, (b) is


Panj, I know you retracted what you wrote here but I have a question, why is the use of subjunctive not idiomatic?


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## panjandrum

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> [...]
> Panj, I know you retracted what you wrote here but I have a question, why is the use of subjunctive not idiomatic?


I didn't intend to suggest that?

I was responding to:
_So, is there a difference between these two?_
_a) It is high time for me to go_
_b) It is high time I went_ 
Repeating myself: (a) is not idiomatic, (b) is idiomatic - and I thought at the time it was subjunctive but changed my mind later.

I convinced myself that it is a past tense, not subjunctive, when I tried first person singular.
I think "It is high time I was going ..." is fine.
But I am certain that "It is high time I were going ..." isn't


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## JamesM

> Past tense of indicative is something different from past subjunctive, even though there is no “physical” difference in form.


 
That's why you have to find an example where the past indicative is "physically" different from the past subjunctive in order to prove or disprove which one it is, as Panjandrum did in the post immediately above this one.


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## A90Six

*Definitions for 'high time' that I have found:*

*On line:*
The latest possible moment; "it is high time you went to work"
The appropriate or urgent time: _It's high time that you started working._
The latest possible moment "it is high time you went to work"
The right or latest time by which something ought to have been done. Example: It's high time you went home

*In dictionaries:*
Chambers: The time by which something ought to have been done.
Collins: The latest possible time: It's high time you left.

I'd like to know what OED says, but in each of the above the term appears (I'm no grammarian) to take the past participle, or is it simple past? Whatever, the verb is past tense.

*As I see it:*
I don't know if I'm agreeing with anyone else - the terminology blinds me - but for me *ing* endings do not work.

It is high time I went.
It is high time I was going.
It is high time he had a job.
It is high time he was getting a job.
It is high time you started your homework.
It is high time you were starting your homework.


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## moodywop

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I convinced myself that it is a past tense, not subjunctive, when I tried first person singular.
> I think "It is high time I was going ..." is fine.
> But I am certain that "It is high time I were going ..." isn't


 
Panji, Quirk _et al _agree with you:

"The _were-_subjunctive cannot replace the hypothetical past in constructions introduced by _It's time (that), eg : It's time I was in bed"_
_(CGEL)_


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## big-melon

JamesM said:
			
		

> I believe "high time" is always followed by the past tense, never the infinitive, and, as others have said, it's immediately followed by the person (or entity) you're berating.
> 
> "It's high time the government got a handle on crime in our streets", for example.


 
Agreed with


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## Thomas1

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Thomas1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panj, I know you retracted what you wrote here but I have a question, why is the use of subjunctive not idiomatic?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't intend to suggest that?
> 
> I was responding to:
> _So, is there a difference between these two?_
> _a) It is high time for me to go_
> _b) It is high time I went_
> Repeating myself: (a) is not idiomatic, (b) is idiomatic - and I thought at the time it was subjunctive but changed my mind later.
Click to expand...

I accidentally mistook the post you answered to. I thought you replied to the post number 1, the author reversed the order of the expressions in one of his later posts (#11). I apologize.



			
				panjandrum said:
			
		

> I convinced myself that it is a past tense, not subjunctive, when I tried first person singular.
> I think "It is high time I was going ..." is fine.
> But I am certain that "It is high time I were going ..." isn't





			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> That's why you have to find an example where the past indicative is "physically" different from the past subjunctive in order to prove or disprove which one it is, as Panjandrum did in the post immediately above this one.


If you say that this is past tense indicative (but I still have my doubts) I'd like to know how you would put that (i.e. _It's high time I went_) into reported speech, please.


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## JamesM

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> If you say that this is past tense indicative (but I still have my doubts) I'd like to know how you would put that (i.e. _It's high time I went_) into reported speech, please.


 
He said it was high time he went.

Is there a problem with that?  I don't understand how this relates to the discussion.


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## Thomas1

JamesM said:
			
		

> He said it was high time he went.
> 
> Is there a problem with that? I don't understand how this relates to the discussion.


Well, if that's a past tense indicative it should backshift as a normal indicative but it does not.
Please, compare:
He went.
He said he had gone.
The above example illustrates a simple use of past tense of indicative, as you can see it backshifts.

Can you spot the difference now?


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## panjandrum

That is a curious point, Thomas1, and I have no explanation.
I might be able to set out the apparent contradiction more clearly.

"It is high time I went to Italy."
converts to
He said it was high time he went to Italy.

"I went to Italy."
converts to
He said he had gone to Italy.

All I can say is that I'm almost certain this is the way it is.
Maybe in the morning there will be an explanation.


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## timpeac

panjandrum said:
			
		

> That is a curious point, Thomas1, and I have no explanation.
> I might be able to set out the apparent contradiction more clearly.
> 
> "It is high time I went to Italy."
> converts to
> He said it was high time he went to Italy.
> 
> "I went to Italy."
> converts to
> He said he had gone to Italy.
> 
> All I can say is that I'm almost certain this is the way it is.
> Maybe in the morning there will be an explanation.


Yes - curious indeed. I see Thomas's thinking but I do agree that the "went" stays as "went" in the reported speech version. To my ear "went" sounds right there and more over "He said it was high time he had gone to Italy" sounds bizarre.

English doesn't make huge use of the pluperfect - I suppose this is just an instance where keeping the sentence lighter and simpler wins out against supposed "logic" of the tenses.


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## JamesM

I think it points out that it is an idiomatic phrase that retains its character, no matter what the form. 

"It's high time I went."
"I said it was high time I went."
"He said that it was high time he went."
"At some point tomorrow, during the course of the wake, I will have drunk too much, and it will be high time I went." 

It invariably takes what I call the past tense, which I guess is really the past indicative (looking at a chart now.)

Just my opinion, but I haven't found an example that breaks with this pattern.


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## paulrobert

I agree that the one form is past subjunctive, not easily recognized in today's English-speaking world, with an emphasis as Thomas1 suggests and so differing slightly in meaning from use of the infinitive, which more just points to the time (time to go).  The subjunctive gives that somewhat obligatory sense, and also some doubt, perhaps, to the phrase.  It may also be true that it's the more common form.


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## Thomas1

Here something that I hope will shed some light on the subject.

_It be time _construction is followed by a subordinate clause. This clause is definitely counterfactual. Taking the example from the original post:
_It’s high time we went._ It more or less means we aren’t going but we should be going. It implies that the situation is not yet in progress and suggests that we should start going.
The structure used in the construction is neither past tense of indicative nor subjunctive. This is something that in grammar bears the name “modal preterite.” Even though it looks like the past tense of indicative mood in form and “behaves” like subjunctive (and perhaps even sounds like it*) it is something different from them looking at it from a grammatical stand point.
The construction _it be time _hardly allows the use of subjunctive, although _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language_ lists one attested case (from a British newspaper) where the subjunctive is used:
_It’s high time the true cost of monarchy were pointed out._​I myself found another one:
And therefore ’tis high time that I were hence.
Shakespeare, _The Comedy of Errors; Act III. Scene II._​ 
Of course the differentiation whether we are dealing with subjunctive or modal preteite is only possible with the verb _to be_.
In many languages forms that are used to express hypothetical or counterfactual clauses/constructions are identical with the ones that express indicative past tense, or they are their derivatives (Seiler 1971, Steele 1975, Langacker 1978, James 1982, Fleischman 1989, Molenicki 2001), but the mood and aspect still differ.

Note that for the sake of clarity which is very important in order to apprehend the whole concept of this explanation; in each case I used the word _subjunctive_ it should be replaced with _irrealis_ as this is a proper grammar designation for the mood in question.

*This is just my speculation and if I’m wrong, please, do not hesitate to point this out.


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## ofriendragon

hello, everyone:

1. It *is* high time that he ____ to bed.

2. It *was* high time that he ___ to bed.

    A. went           B had gone 


I know A fits 1, but which one fits 2.? Still A, right? 

Thanks in advance


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## dn88

Yes, A in both examples.


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## Pidginboy

It is high time we brought her to heel.

Does it mean that bringing her to heel has been badly delayed?
If not, please explain how to use 'high time'.


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## Moglet

Correct. 'High time' indicates that an action is long overdue.


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## Forero

Past tense in this case does not refer to past time.  The meaning is "It is definitely time for us to bring her to heel."  This refers to a dog, right?


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## Forero

"High time (that) he went to bed" = "high time for him to go to bed".  It is past tense in form, but infinitive in meaning.  This construction implies anticipation of something, so it is incompatible with the perfect, which implies looking back at something already done.

"high time for him to have gone to bed" 
"high time (that) he had gone to bed"


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## yykelly15

How about "It's high time that we should do it now."?

In China, students are taught that "should" can be used here. I'm wondering if it's only natural to say "it's high time that we did it."


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## velisarius

yykelly15 said:


> it's only natural to say "it's high time that we did it."





_We should (ought to) do it now.
It's high time we did it._


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## natkretep

I agree. 'Its high time we should do it now' is incorrect for me.

I noticed that 'high time' is used in all the examples above. I use 'time' alone in this way too. 'It's time I left.' Other modifiers like 'nearly' or 'about' can come before 'time' too.


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