# FR: Il n'y en a pas assez souvent



## jonleedude

Hi all, I saw this sentence in my class today but didn't get to ask the teacher after class how you break it down or clarify what it means.  The context is that the bus doesn't come around my place too often.

So in the sentence, does the "y" denote the place (around my place)?  And how does "en" work in this sentence?  

And is the meaning of the sentence "It does not come around often enough"?


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## prambler

Hello,
In the sentence "Il n'y en a pas assez souvent", en stands for buses. If you don't use the pronoun, the sentence would be:
"Il n'y a pas assez souvent de bus" 
"Il n'y a pas" is a phrase meaning " there is not" or "there are not".
And yes, you could interpret it as "Buses don't come around often enough." Or translate as "there aren't enough (buses)"
I hope this helps you!


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## snarkhunter

There is some / There is none = "Il *y* en a / Il n'*y* en a pas"

Here, "y" implies something specific that has been introduced before.

And "en" is related to the thing that's lacking.

As an example :

"Il *y* a du monde ici" -> "Du monde, il *y* en a ici"


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## brian

Ok, kind of confusing to parse because there is a lot going on, but here we go...

The main expression here is _il y a_, which means _there are_. For example: _Il y a un livre sur la table = There is a book on the table._

But here is it negative, _ne...pas_, and as you may have learned, an indefinite noun ("_a_ thing") followed by a negation requires _de_ and no article. For example: _Il n'y a pas de livre sur la table = There is not a book on the table/There is no book on the table/There isn't any book on the table._

So that leaves _en_, which is a particle that stands for _de_ + <noun>. For example:

A: _Combien de livres avez-vous? -- How many books do you have?_
B: _J'en ai quattre. -- I have four (of them)._ <-- "of them" is unnecessary in English, but "en" is necessary in French.

So considering that _assez souvent _means _often enough_, and putting that all together, we get:

_Il n'y en_ (= "de bus")_ a pas assez souvent = _(lit.) _There are not of them_ ("buses")_ often enough = There aren't any of them _("buses") _often enough._

It sounds strange in English. We would normally say, _They _("Buses") _don't come often enough _or _There aren't enough of them _("buses")_._


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## jonleedude

Thanks guys!  

Now Snark, what does your sentence mean?  I know monde is world, but what does it mean here? , ""Il *y* a du monde ici" -> "Du monde, il *y* en a ici""

Is it along the lines of, "There are many people here"?

Also I was thinking, and if you want to say "There is enough", do you say "Il y en a assez."?

Thanks for the help again guys!  This forum is amazing.


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## Tim~!

jonleedude said:


> Also I was thinking, and if you want to say "There is enough", do you say "Il y en a assez."?


That would be perfect.

The 'en' replaces what would be in question.

For example, if someone asks you whether you need any eggs, you don't need to repeat 'eggs' in your response, the same as in English.

You would replace the 'des oeufs' from the question by 'en', which means "the thing in question that I'm avoiding repeating" 

"Il y en a assez" = "Il y a assez de X", and means that you don't have to mention X again.



jonleedude said:


> Now Snark, what does your sentence mean?  I know monde is world, but what does it mean here? , ""Il *y* a du monde ici" -> "Du monde, il *y* en a ici""
> 
> Is it along the lines of, "There are many people here"?



Exactly.  "Tout le monde" is used to mean "everyone", rather than the literal "whole world" that we English-speakers might automatically assume.


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## Fred_C

Brian, your explanation is too complex, I think.
"En" can be used in an affirmative sentence like "il y en a", and there is no preposition "de" in the affirmative sentence : "Il y a des bus".
The reason for the "en" to be there is simply to replace an object that uses an indefinite article ("_*des*_ bus").


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## brian

But when I said that _en_ replaces _de_ + noun, I meant to include the indefinite plural article _des_.

Sorry if that was unclear.

In other words: _en = de/du/de la/des _+ noun. I simply combined all that into one _de_, but I see how that could be confusing (and arguably "wrong").


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## Fred_C

brian8733 said:


> But when I said that _en_ replaces _de_ + noun, I meant to include the indefinite plural article _des_.
> 
> Sorry if that was unclear.
> 
> In other words: _en = de/du/de la/des _+ noun. I simply combined all that into one _de_, but I see how that could be confusing (and arguably "wrong").



Yes, because the plural article "des" does not include a preposition "de" at all.
There is another "des", the combination of the preposition "de" plus the definite article "les". 
It is true that a noun determined by either of those two articles would be replaced with the pronoun "en", though.

Besides, I like to say that in a negative sentence "Je ne veux pas de pain", the word "de" is not a preposition, just a special form of the indefinite article, when it is the object of a negative sentence.


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## brian

Interesting.

I've never actually studied French grammar in a formal way, so I don't know what the French or the grammarians say about that stuff; I just go by the things I see and hear.

But your take on _(pas) de_ is interesting--I hadn't thought of it like that.


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## marget

Fred_C said:


> I like to say that in a negative sentence "Je ne veux pas de pain", the word "de" is not a preposition, just a special form of the indefinite article, when it is the object of a negative sentence.


 

I would think that in the case of "Je ne veux pas de pain", _de_ is the negative form  of the partitive, not the indefinite article, if the sentence in the affirmative is "Je veux du pain", of course.  However, I feel that the same _de _is used as the negative form of both the partitive and indefinite article since both structures are used to limit the quantity of objects, one for count nouns and the other for non-count.   In the affirmative, they differ in form but not in the negative.  

I could be wrong since I have never studied French grammar from the French perspective.  This is just my impression.


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## Thomas1

marget said:


> I would think that in the case of "Je ne veux pas de pain", _de_ is the negative form  of the partitive, not the indefinite article, if the sentence in the affirmative is "Je veux du pain", of course.  However, I feel that the same _de _is used as the negative form of both the partitive and indefinite article since both structures are used to limit the quantity of objects, one for count nouns and the other for non-count.   In the affirmative, they differ in form but not in the negative.  [...]


I am wondering if Fred's sentence could also be the negation of:
_Je veux un pain. _I want a loaf (of bread).
If this sentence is fine, then the "de" is the negative form of the indefinite article.


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## marget

Thomas1 said:


> I am wondering if Fred's sentence could also be the negation of:
> _Je veux un pain. _I want a loaf (of bread).
> If this sentence is fine, then the "de" is the negative form of the indefinite article.


 
I don't doubt this possibility, which is why I limited my statement to the affirmative being "je veux du pain".  In both cases, I feel that the negative of both the partitive and indefinite articles is "de".


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## jann

Greetings all,

I'm afraid the discussion has strayed rather far off-course.  Please, let's refocus on points more relevant to the initial question, which was about explaining the structure of _il n'y en a pas assez souvent_, and discussing whether this sentence is appropriate when you're trying to express the idea that the bus doesn't run often enough in your neighborhood.

Thanks! 
Jann
Moderator


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