# Norwegian: Såpass



## sjiraff

Hello again,

I usually try to limit how often I make threads here at least without researching the phrase/word as much as possible first, but given that I haven't been able to find any concrete definition of this word for a while, and that it seems to be everywhere, a clarification might even help others also learning Norwegian.

_*Såpass*_

What exactly is the difference between såpass and "så"? At first I thought it was more of an indicator of the "degree of something" (Like, "Eska var såpass tung at jeg ikke klarte å bære den hit"?). (the box was so heavy that I couldn't manage to carry it here)

Here are two examples I got from a video with some examples of the word:

*1.*  Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.

*2*.  Det er veldig bra at denne feilen oppdages såpass tidlig - It's very good that this error is discovered sufficiently early

Now for number *1*, would I be wrong in saying you could also say "Godt å få bekreftet en så stor ordre"?

For number *2*, I'm quite unsure, I probably would have said "tilstrekkelig tidlig" or "tidsnok" or something.

When should and shouldn't one use "såpass"?

Thanks!


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## Ífaradà

Såpass is a word with a couple different uses. It can mean different things depending on the context. 

You can use "så" in the first example, indeed, but såpass sounds better.

In the second example, "såpass" means: "it's very good that this terror was discovered _*this early.*_ (As early as it was).

Tilstrekkelig tidlig sounds odd and is not in use. Tidsnok, however, is a good replacement for såpass, though it would change the meaning slightly.


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## sjiraff

Ífaradà said:


> Såpass is a word with a couple different uses. It can mean different things depending on the context.
> 
> You can use "så" in the first example, indeed, but såpass sounds better.
> 
> In the second example, "såpass" means: "it's very good that this terror was discovered _*this early.*_ (As early as it was).
> 
> Tilstrekkelig tidlig sounds odd and is not in use. Tidsnok, however, is a good replacement for såpass, though it would change the meaning slightly.



Ahh I see, I had a feeling it was like "_this _early" (because it's unique to English we "this" and you wouldn't say "dette tidlig" in Norwegian)

But does this mean it would apply to something like, "Why are you THIS/SO angry?" - "Hvorfor er du såpass sinna?"?

Thanks!


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## Ífaradà

sjiraff said:


> Ahh I see, I had a feeling it was like "_this _early" (because it's unique to English we "this" and you wouldn't say "dette tidlig" in Norwegian)
> 
> But does this mean it would apply to something like, "Why are you THIS/SO angry?" - "Hvorfor er du såpass sinna?"?
> 
> Thanks!


Exactly!

Though you would have to say "hvorfor er du så sinna?" (So in English).
Doesn't really make much sense, but that's how the word works >.<

If you are really unsure about its usage, you can replace it with another word 99% of the time.


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## sjiraff

Ífaradà said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Though you would have to say "hvorfor er du så sinna?" (So in English).
> Doesn't really make much sense, but that's how the word works >.<
> 
> If you are really unsure about its usage, you can replace it with another word 99% of the time.



Hmm, I thought I was on to something there with "såpass sinna", but in that case, I think I'll play it safe most of the time and just stick to så mostly.

Thanks!


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## Ífaradà

sjiraff said:


> Hmm, I thought I was on to something there with "såpass sinna", but in that case, I think I'll play it safe most of the time and just stick to så mostly.
> 
> Thanks!


You were onto something. Look here:

De er såpass sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are angry at the point where they could do anything.
De er så sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are so angry they could do anything.


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## sjiraff

Ífaradà said:


> You were onto something. Look here:
> 
> De er såpass sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are angry at the point where they can do anything.
> De er så sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are so angry they could do anything.



Ah! So you're saying it's used in a comparison(sort of), almost like saying "i den grad at..."?


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## Ífaradà

sjiraff said:


> Ah! So you're saying it's used in a comparison(sort of), almost like saying "i den grad at..."?


Almost, yes.

Let's say there's a bottle, let's say half the bottle needs to be filled with water before it gets angry. "Såpass" in my example above, informs us that the bottle has reached this point, and is now capable of anything.


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## sjiraff

Ífaradà said:


> Almost, yes.
> 
> Let's say there's a bottle, let's say half the bottle needs to be filled with water before it gets angry. "Såpass" in my example above, informs us that the bottle has reached this point, and is now capable of anything.



Yeah, I think I get it. More confident with the "såpass x...at han kan y" usage than the others, but understanding them written is no problem.

Cheers!


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## raumar

Ífaradà  has already given you a good explanation, but maybe I could add that there often is an element of moderation in "såpass". That is probably why you can't use "såpass" in  "hvorfor er du så sinna?"



sjiraff said:


> *1.*  Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.



I think you can translate this sentence a bit differently: 
Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm an order of that size.
Godt å få bekreftet en så stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.

With "såpass", the order is sizeable, but you are not necessarily impressed or overwhelmed by it.


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## sjiraff

raumar said:


> Ífaradà  has already given you a good explanation, but maybe I could add that there often is an element of moderation in "såpass". That is probably why you can't use "såpass" in  "hvorfor er du så sinna?"
> 
> 
> 
> I think you can translate this sentence a bit differently:
> Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm an order of that size.
> Godt å få bekreftet en så stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.
> 
> With "såpass", the order is sizeable, but you are not necessarily impressed or overwhelmed by it.



I think I get what you mean, an order "of that size". Does that mean maybe you could say, "Hvorfor er du en såpass sinna mann?"? Maybe?


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## myšlenka

Ífaradà said:


> *1) *De er såpass sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are angry at the point where they could do anything.
> *2) *De er så sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are so angry they could do anything.



Your first example doesn't sound like idiomatic Norwegian, it's weird.

_Så_ - used to talk about degree, always modifying an adverb or an adjective.
_Såpass_ - used to talk about degree in comparison with what you would expect in the given context.


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## raumar

myšlenka said:


> _Så_ - used to talk about degree, always modifying an adverb or an adjective.
> _Såpass_ - used to talk about degree in comparison with what you would expect in the given context.



Thanks myšlenka - this was really a much better explanation than my attempts!



sjiraff said:


> I usually try to limit how often I make threads here at least without researching the phrase/word as much as possible first, but given that I haven't been able to find any concrete definition of this word for a while, and that it seems to be everywhere, a clarification might even help others also learning Norwegian.



No need to apologize, sjiraff. Your questions deal with things that most native speakers have never thought about - because it is natural for us. I usually learn something new about my own language from your questions. But this also means that some of us have to fumble a bit, before we are able to explain.


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## Grefsen

I'm interested to know what some of the possible English translations for *såpåss* could be in the following sentence?

"Såpass takhøyde må det være."

Would "enough" make sense in this example?

"There must be enough headroom."

To provide more context, this sentence comes from a quote of the Norwegian National *fotball trener,* Per-Mathias Høgmo that was used in the headline of this Dagbladet article:

Høgmo om  spillerkritikken:   - Såpass takhøyde må det være 

Here is the sentence in the article that precedes this example:

"Det er fenomenalt at vi er forskjellige, er emosjonelle og gir uttrykk på det på forskjellig måter når man er skuffet etter kamp."

På forhånd takk for hjelpen!


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## Wilma_Sweden

Grefsen said:


> "There must be enough headroom."


I'm not entirely happy. We have såpass in Swedish, too, with the same usage or thereabouts judging by the previous examples. I'd probably write "There has to be that much headroom" or "There must be that much headroom" - "enough" alone doesn't quite nail it IMO.


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## raumar

I agree with Wilma - "enough" isn't quite right, "that much" seems better.  

By the way, is "_takhøyde_"/headroom used the same way in Norwegian and English, when we talk about the figurative meaning? The general translation of "_takhøyde_" (used figuratively) would be "tolerance".


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## Grefsen

raumar said:


> I agree with Wilma - "enough" isn't quite right, "that much" seems better.


Tusen takk for det *Wilma* og *raumar*! 



raumar said:


> By the way, is "_takhøyde_"/headroom used the same way in Norwegian and English, when we talk about the figurative meaning? The general translation of "_takhøyde_" (used figuratively) would be "tolerance".


"There must be that much tolerance" sounds like a good English translation for this example.  I'm tall and typically only use the word headroom when describing my experience while seated in a small car.


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## Wilma_Sweden

The word *slack* comes to mind, but I'm not sure whether it would fit in the context, normally you just cut someone some slack and you'd probably have to seriously rephrase the sentence...?


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## raumar

Thanks for the suggestion, Wilma. My English is not good enough to find the best translation, but "_takhøyde_" is generally used to describe a permanent feature of an organization. By using this term, Høgmo implies that there always is room for such open debate and criticism in his team. He is not just saying that we should cut these players some slack in this specific case - it is more general than that.


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## Wilma_Sweden

raumar said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, Wilma. My English is not good enough to find the best translation, but "_takhøyde_" is generally used to describe a permanent feature of an organization. By using this term, Høgmo implies that there always is room for such open debate and criticism in his team. He is not just saying that we should cut these players some slack in this specific case - it is more general than that.


OK, I see. I only just remembered that we have a similar expression in Swedish - högt i tak, with exactly that meaning, I just haven't come across takhöjd used in that sense, like Grefsen I think of the physical height of a ceiling.  But of course it's creative usage and quite logical when you think about it. 

I think tolerance is the closest we're getting to an English equivalent at the moment, unless Grefsen comes up with other alternatives. One could of course rephrase the above and ask in the English Only forum if there is a word or expression with that particular meaning.


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## Ben Jamin

Wilma_Sweden said:


> OK, I see. I only just remembered that we have a similar expression in Swedish - högt i tak, with exactly that meaning, I just haven't come across takhöjd used in that sense, like Grefsen I think of the physical height of a ceiling.  But of course it's creative usage and quite logical when you think about it.
> 
> I think tolerance is the closest we're getting to an English equivalent at the moment, unless Grefsen comes up with other alternatives. One could of course rephrase the above and ask in the English Only forum if there is a word or expression with that particular meaning.


What about "culture of tolerance"?


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## Ben Jamin

Grefsen said:


> I'm interested to know what some of the possible English translations for *såpåss* could be in the following sentence?
> 
> "Såpass takhøyde må det være."


My proposal: "We should expect _*at least* that much_ of tolerance."


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## raumar

Thanks, Ben - I agree that the "at least" improves the translation. 

But I am not so sure about the "expect" part. With "expect", the meaning seems to be that the coach expects the football players to be tolerant of each others. As far as I can see, however, the point is that the coach tolerates open debate and criticism among the players. A stricter coach might have reprimanded the players, but Høgmo won't do that.


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## Ben Jamin

raumar said:


> Thanks, Ben - I agree that the "at least" improves the translation.
> 
> But I am not so sure about the "expect" part. With "expect", the meaning seems to be that the coach expects the football players to be tolerant of each others. As far as I can see, however, the point is that the coach tolerates open debate and criticism among the players. A stricter coach might have reprimanded the players, but Høgmo won't do that.


Well, the original sentence does not specify who should expect tolerance from whom, it is quite open and general. Only the context make us understand the exact meaning. I don't think that the use of expect points out any particular part who expect ('we' can be just "anybody" in this context), but maybe "One should expect .." makes it even more general?

By the way, I think that "såpass" carries the "hidden" meaning of "at least" in many contexts.


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