# pronunciation: Čech



## em_muh

I don't speak czech and I'm not learning it but I have a question that has been bothering me for monthes:
How do you pronounce "Cech" as in "Peter Cech" ,the famous footballer, ?


----------



## texpert

A bit hard to explain -does the following link work on your computer? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cs-Petr_Cech.ogg


----------



## em_muh

now it works but it seems like petr che~


----------



## texpert

ok, it's *pɛtr **ch**ɛ**x *where *x *is pronounced as in Bach in English, 

or as indicated here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative


----------



## em_muh

Thanks my friend now I understand 
Actually it has a synonym in my native language (Arabic)
In English it's mostly stated: KH


----------



## capials

Čech  the CH should be as Lo*ch* Lomond in English  BUT

J.S.Ba*ch* is a problem for the English and the French .

It certainly is not voiceless,Spanish is very rich in it.


----------



## BezierCurve

But isn't [x] the voiceless counterpart of the voiced [ɣ]?


----------



## bibax

Yes. CH is voiceless velar fricative, H is voiced glottal fricative. In Czech CH can be pronounced H, and vice versa (see regressive assimilation of voiceness). They form a voiceless-voiced consonant pair, like S-Z, T-D, C-DZ, Š-Ž, etc.

The Czech CH is pronounced like the CH in the German word Bach (= brook). There is a difference between ach-Laut and ich-Laut in German.

However the ach-Laut in German (like in Bach) and J in Spanish (like in Juan) may be pronounced uvular. The Czech ch is pronounced velar.

The ch sound is also present in Irish (deoch), Scottish Gaelic (drochaid), Dutch (Gogh). The hard ch sound was also part of the consonant inventory of Old English (daughter = Tochter in German, thought, cough, tough, etc.).


----------



## capials

Mr.Bibax you have a very fine ear ,indeed.

My question is:- how would an ordinary mortal pronounce correctly Bach, ach ,ich,Juan,junta ,Gogh, Čech following your profound of knowledge of voicing ,and speech organs?

To be blasphemous with me a *ch* is a *ch* is a *ch *       ergo   throaty


----------



## BezierCurve

I don't know about van Gogh, but German ch in "ich" (which is palatal) is not throaty. Actualy it can be sometimes mistaken for "ʃ" (sh).



> It certainly is not voiceless,Spanish is very rich in it.


 
It is voiceless indeed. Or did you mean it is not _mute_?


----------



## Fantomas.CZ

em_muh said:


> Thanks my friend now I understand
> Actually it has a synonym in my native language (Arabic)
> In English it's mostly stated: KH


 
Not really, your KH (ﺥ‎) is way too hard and to my knowledge never used in Czech (maybe in some strange dialect). Our CH corresponds more to your ﺡ‎ sound, although there is a difference (our CH is pronounced in the front part of the palate).


----------



## bibax

German ich-Laut is voiceless palatal fricative [ç], I think it is the same sound like Polish ś.
German ach-Laut is voiceless velar fricative [x], however it can be uvular.

Czech ch is voiceless velar fricative, the same as the German ach-Laut (in most cases).

The German ich-Laut is indeed similar to sh/sch/š (voiceless palatoalveolar fricative). I usually hear zwanzisch or tüschtisch, for instance.


----------



## capials

Capials has no more say.In North German ein Zug is cuch sort of..In Austria it is a Cug;and then there is Plattdeutsch.


----------



## texpert

capials said:


> J.S.Ba*ch* is a problem for the English and the French .


 
It seems to be indeed: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=bach. 

To make Bach sound proper Czech, you should stop _voicelessly fricating _a good sec earlier


----------

