# Urdu-Hindi: is meN aap ko Hindi kii kitaabeN mileN gii



## marrish

This discussion started here (it's better to start a fresh thread because it doesn't have anything to do with the subject of the source thread):



marrish said:


> ...I think another word for ''a poem'' in Hindi is पद्य ''_padya_'' as opposed to ''prose'' - गद्य''_gadya_'' (if you happen to have interest and time, *I can recommend a site for Hindi prose (an online library).*
> 
> 
> tonyspeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> shukriyaa. Now I can stop buying books online for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marrish said:
> 
> 
> 
> *jii, ko'ii baat nahiiN, is meN aap ko Hindi kii bahut saarii kitaabeN mileN gii.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


To which *greatbear* suggested the following corrections:
_is meN idhar aap ko Hindi kii meN bahut saarii kitaabeN mileNgii._

greatbear, would you care to explain your reason, for TS's benefit, why you have chosen to write this in place of my sentence? Once greatbear has offered his explanation, could other forum friends please chip in with your views regarding the two sentences in question?


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## greatbear

To avoid ambiguity, very simple.

"Hindi kii" means books about Hindi (e.g. grammar books, dictionaries, etc.); I am cognisant of the fact that many people would use it (wrongly, IMO) for also books written _in_ Hindi.

"Hindi meN" means books which are written in Hindi: which is what you were linking TS to.

As for "is meN", that gives me the impression of some "sandook meN"  "Idhar" or "yahaaN" are the appropriate words here.


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## marrish

In the past, you have repeatedly blown your own trumpet that, being a native speaker, you ''breathe Hindi''. But you seem to be forgetting one basic fact. I, whose heart and soul is Urdu, wrote my sentence in Urdu and from this standpoint, as much as I would love to, I don’t see a way of agreeing with your suggestions.

Are you trying to say that a native speaker would say ''*idhar*''? No! Only ''*yahaaN*'' is appropriate, which you have added on second thought.

_Hindi meN kitaabeN_ is of course a valid phrase but I don’t accept _Hindi kii kitaabeN_ would be wrong by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, the latter is quite idiomatic. To my mind, ''_Hindi meN kitaabeN_'' gives the impression as if Hindi was a large _*thailaa *_purposely made to carry books in .

You haven't yet commented on your third ''correction'': _mileNgii._

A quick reference is this post. You will learn that in Urdu, as opposed to Hindi, this is almost invariably written as two separate words, ''_mileN gii_'' ملیں گی, not _mileNgii ملینگی.
_
So as you can see, as far as Urdu is concerned (and this is equally true for good Hindi, with the exception of the last point), my sentence can't be faulted.

I am still hoping other friends will come forward to express their views on this very basic sentence. I hope it is not too much to ask.


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## greatbear

I would advise you to mind your language, first of all: if you cannot construct basic sentences properly, you don't have to insult me.

Forget "idhar" or "yahaaN", you had none of them in the first place. Second, "idhar" is what a native speaker would say - and there's nothing wrong about it grammatically, too. Maybe for an Urdu speaker, "yahaaN" would take precedence over "idhar": regardless what you had in sentence is wrong.

As for "meN" vs. "kii", if you don't get it, you don't get it  And as for "gii", I don't know how is written in Urdu script, but writing that separately in romanized script seems wrong to me, as "gii" cannot stand independently on its own.


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## Wolverine9

Aren't _idhar _and _yahaaN _synonyms, as are _udhar _and _vahaaN_?  It was my impression that all of these forms are commonly used in both Hindi and Urdu.  Am I wrong?


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## Wolverine9

Let's test out the possibilities:

_is meN aap ko_... "In this you (will)..."     vs.        _idhar aap ko..._ "Here you (will)..."

Although both forms will be found in casual speech, the second form is correct in writing judging by the English evidence.

_Hindi kii kitaab..._ vs. _Hindi meN kitaab..._ both sound correct to me.

But, the larger point is that it probably doesn't really matter what forms were used since the sentence was originally part of a casual conversation.


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## greatbear

Wolverine9 said:


> Aren't _idhar _and _yahaaN _synonyms, as are _udhar _and _vahaaN_?  It was my impression that all of these forms are commonly used in both Hindi and Urdu.  Am I wrong?



I was and am still of the same impression, Wolverine.


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## Chhaatr

As a native speaker of Hindi (Lucknow, UP) "I" (my personal opinion) would have used/preferred:

YahaaN in place of "Is meN" or "Idhar"
Hindi kii in place of "Hindi meN" (although in hindsight Hindi meN sounds more appropriate)
MileNgii in place of "mileN gii"

Above comments relate to Hindi, not Urdu.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> I would advise you to mind your language, first of all: if you cannot construct basic sentences properly, you don't have to insult me.
> 
> Forget "idhar" or "yahaaN", you had none of them in the first place. Second, "idhar" is what a native speaker would say - and there's nothing wrong about it grammatically, too. Maybe for an Urdu speaker, "yahaaN" would take precedence over "idhar": regardless what you had in sentence is wrong.
> 
> As for "meN" vs. "kii", if you don't get it, you don't get it  And as for "gii", I don't know how is written in Urdu script, but writing that separately in romanized script seems wrong to me, as "gii" cannot stand independently on its own.


On re-reading my post I can't find any fragment which contains insulting language.
I still insist that my use of "is meN" is perfectly correct and there is no reason whatsoever to deem it wrong.
Re. gii, you say that you don't know how it is written in Urdu, I think I have explained this point thoroughly, with transliteration and a link.

I'm glad we've got more opinions by now!


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## Qureshpor

Wolverine9 said:


> [...] and even now the colloquial forms of Hindi and Urdu are largely the same.


So, Wolverine9, it seems ironic that an Urdu speaker and a Hindi speaker are arguing over the format of a seemingly straight forward sentence!

Before discussing this sentence in detail, let’s bring in the context, emphasis being mine. (MS=marrish SaaHib, TS = tonyspeed). Context is important because language is not black and white.

MS: I can recommend a *site* for Hindi prose (an* online library*)

TS: shukriyaa. Now I can stop buying books online for a while.

MS: jii, ko’ii baat nahiiN, *is meN* aap ko Hindii kii bahut saarii kitaabeN mileN gii.

When I read MS’s sentence, it looked pretty normal to me. However, I did have a problem with “bahut saarii”. I prefer to use “bahut sii” but this is another issue!

A correction was then presented, changing MS’s sentence to:

idhar aap ko Hindi meN bahut saarii kitaabeN mileNgii.

No explanation was offered at the time. Later in the timeline, clarification was provided and it would suffice to summarise it.

Hindi  kii = about Hindi

Hindi meN = in Hindi

Is meN = sandook meN, said in humour, with additional note that both “idhar and yahaaN are the appropriate words here.” (MS said something similar equating “Hindi meN” to a “thailaa”. So it’s a tie)

It seems to me that we have three issues here which, IMHO, range from the trivial to fairly important. I shall look at it in that order.

1)    mileN gii vs mileNgii

Clearly, this is a matter of one language’s convention against another’s. MS has indicated that as his language is Urdu, his sentence was from the Urdu perspective. Personally, I don’t think this point is worth quarrelling over. In Urdu, gaa/ge/gii are not joined to the verb before it whereas in Devanagi they are joined. One thing however should be mentioned. The reason why gaa/ge/gii do stand independently of the verb is because “gaa” is considered to be a contraction of “ga-aa/gayaa” (gone).

2)    Idhar vs yahaaN vs *is meN
*
idhar and yahaaN are generally used synonymously in casual speech. However “idhar” means “In this direction” or “Over here” (cf. English hither, thither and whither for our idhar, tidhar and kidhar) whereas “yahaaN” is “at this place”. For me out of “idhar” and “yahaaN”, “yahaaN” would be the more appropriate choice. However the original “*is meN*” is perfect because this refers back to “*site” *and “*online library”* (*is site meN* or *is online library meN*).

3)    Hindi kii vs Hindi meN

Bearing the context in mind and ignoring “idhar” and “yahaaN”, let us compare the following two possibilities.

A)   is meN aap ko Hindii kii kitaabeN mileN gii

B)    is meN aap ko Hindi meN kitaabeN mileNgii

Taking the sentences as a whole, I would be happy with either A or B. B however does have a slightly “negative” aspect to it in the sense that we have two “meN”s in close proximity. But what is the difference between “Hindi kii kitaabeN” and “Hindi meN kitaabeN”? Well, “Hindi kii kitaabeN” is simply “Books of Hindi” or more idiomatically, “Hindi books” whereas “Hindi meN kitaabeN” is of course “Books in Hindi”. 

Interestingly, Chhatr Jii, a native speaker of Hindi from Lucknow has instinctively gone for the “Hindi kii kitaabeN” and discarded “idhar”. Here are a couple of “Hindi kii kitaabeN” examples from the net.

हिंदी अभी उस चमक-दमक का हिस्सा नहीं बन पाई है. *हिंदी की किताबें* अभी भी उस तरह के भाव नहीं जगा पाती हैं कि उनको पढ़ने के फैशन का हिस्सा बनाया जा सके.

http://www.jankipul.com/2011/10/blog-post_18.html

हिदी आज भी शर्म की भाषा ही बनी हुई है। नयी पीढ़ी *हिंदी की किताबें* तब भी कम खरीदता था, आज भी कम खरीदता है। वह अंग्रेजी का चेतन भगत तो खरीद लेता है, हिंदी का सुरेंद्र मोहन पाठक नहीं खरीदता। लेकिन वही सुरेंद्र मोहन पाठक जब अनुवाद होकर अंग्रेजी में आता है, तो उसे हाथोहाथ लेता है।

http://naagaree.blogspot.co.uk/


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## marrish

^QP SaaHib, I'm glad for the work you have done - it will be easier for others who haven't yet taken part in the discussion to express their views, having such analysis at hand. Until it happens I am going to refrain from drawing further conclusions, though actually my stance is clear from the very beginning as the original sentence is ''authored'' by myself. 

Perhaps it is a good material for a new thread - such as this very one which dwells on matters concerned purely with the language issues, which is a good sign - that you expressed your having problem with ''_bahut saarii_''. Perhaps you could shed more light on your preference of ''_bahut sii_''?

It is not my preoccupation to make my ''editor'' change his mind or to get convinced - believe me, there are other things one can invest one's time into. The only reason for my participation is to make use of this opportunity to shed more light on some vital language questions in the hope that it proves interesting and have some educational value for the Forum. 

I've already suggested that my point of view on the sentence in question should be compatible with good Hindi. Yet, I don't expect anyone to take it for granted. QP SaaHib has already submitted two passages in Hindi but I think the issue deserves a broader approach so that we can get a clearer view.

An online search has produced the following results, which I'm reproducing below:

(Just for information, the statistics for _Hindi *meN* kitaabeN_: 10 300 हिंदी में किताबे +11 500 हिन्दी में किताबें giving 21 800 - both spellings of Hindi included vs. _Hindi *kii* kitaabeN_: 29 200 हिंदी की किताबें + 22 600 हिन्दी की किताबें = 51 800; but it is not this data I want to bother you with since the results are not that reliable in the sense that a page can be listed many a time, as it is a case in the _meN_ variation where one single page gets listed over 90 times). 

What is more interesting are the sentences in which Hindi *kii* kitaabeN and Hindi *meN* kitaabeN are used:

(results from the first pages from Google)

HINDII MEN


इंजीनियरिंग व मेडिकल विषयों की हिन्दी में किताबें प्रकाशित करने की iNjiiniyariNg va meDikal viSHayoN kii hindii meN kitaabeN prakaashit karne kii...
हिन्दी में किताबें छाप कर एक जमाने में मैंने कितना कमाया था hindii meN kitaabeN chhaap kar ek jamaane meN maiNne kitnaa kamaayaa thaa.
रिपोर्ट के अनुसार युवा पीढी़ के ज्यादातर लोग यानी 33.4 प्रतिशत लोग हिन्दी में किताबें पढ़ना चाहते हैं riporT ke anusaar yuvaa piiRhii ke jyaadaatar log yaanii 33.4 pratishat log hindii meN kitaabeN paRhnaa chaahte haiN.
कि हिन्दी में किताबें उपलब्ध कराने में पचास वर्ष और लग जायें ...ki hindii meN kitaabeN uplabdh karaane meN pachaas varSH aur lag jaayeN...
हिंदी में किताबें खूब छप रही हैं। Hindi meN kitaabeN khuub chhap rahii haiN.
पित्ताशय की पथरी विषय पर हिंदी में किताबें लिखी हैं pittaashay kii patharii viSHay par hiNdii meN kitaabeN likhii haiN.
हिंदी में किताबें छापने वाले कुछ बड़े नामों को ... hiNdii meN kitaabeN chhaapne vaale kuchchh baRe naamoN ko...
हिंदी में किताबें पढ़ना चाहते हैं ... hiNdii meN kitaabeN paRhnaa chaahte haiN...
हिंदी में किताबें छपती हैं hiNdii meN kitaabeN chhaptii haiN
पहले हिंदी में किताबें लिखी जाती थीं लेकिन अब अंग्रेजी में बहुत लिखा जा रहा है। pahle hiNdii meN kitaabeN likhii jaatii thiiN lekin ab aNgrejii meN bahut likhaa jaa rahaa hai.
उन्होंने हिंदी में किताबें लिखना शुरू किया... unhoNne hiNdii meN kitaabeN likhnaa shuruu kiyaa...
हिंदी में किताबें प्रकाशित करने की तैयारी शुरू कर दी गई है। hiNdii meN kitaabeN prakaashit karne kii taiyaarii shuruu kar dii gaii hai.
हिंदी में किताबें खूब लिखी जा रही हैं । hiNdii meN kitaabeN khuub likhii jaa rahii haiN
मुझको हिंदी में किताबें पढ़नी पड़ती हैं। mujhko hiNdii meN kitaabeN paRhnii paRtii haiN.


HINDI KII


हिन्दी की किताबें अब मिलने लगी थीं hindii kii kitaabeN ab milne lagii thiiN
मेले में हिंदी की किताबें खूब बिक रही mele meN hiNdii kii kitaabeN khuub bik rahii
मुझे कहीं हिंदी की किताबें नहीं दिखाई दीं mujhe kahiiN hiNdii kii kitaabeN nahiiN dikhaaii diiN
लायब्रेरी में हिन्दी की किताबें दो अलमारियों में सिमट जाएं तो क्या आश्चर्य? laaibrerii meN hindii kii kitaabeN do almaariyoN meN simaT jaaeN to kyaa aashcharya?
लाइब्रेरी में नहीं हिन्दी की किताबें laaibrerii meN nahiiN hindii kii kitaabeN
हिंदी की किताबें अधिकतर जगहों पर नहीं मिली है। hiNdii kii kitaabeN adhiktar jagahoN par nahiiN milii haiN.
'हिंदी की किताबें कहां बिकती हैं!' hiNdii kii kitaabeN kahaaN biktii haiN!
बाजार में भी हिंदी की किताबें जल्दी नहीं मिलतीं baajaar meN bhii hiNdii kii kitaabeN jaldii nahiiN miltiiN
हिंदी की किताबें ढूँढना शुरु कर दिया है hiNdii kii kitaabeN DhuuNDhnaa shuruu kar diyaa hai
तमाम विषयों पर हिन्दी की किताबें अब उपलब्ध हैं tamaam viSHayoN par hindii kii kitaabeN ab uplabdh haiN
लेकिन इस बार काफ़ी सारी किताबें थीं और हिन्दी की किताबें भी अच्छी खासी मात्रा में थीं। lekin is baar kaafii saarii kitaabeN thiiN aur hindii kii kitaabeN bhii achchhii khaasii maatraa meN thiiN.
हिन्दी की किताबें पढ़ने वाले पाठक एक बार उनकी हर किताब से एक बार गुजरना जरूर चाहते हैं। hindii kii kitaabeN paRhne vaale paaThak ek baar unkii har kitaab se ek baar guzarnaa zarur chaahte haiN.
लाइब्रेरी की प्रबंधन टीम से जुड़े कुछ अधिकारी पुस्तकालय में हिन्दी की किताबें रखने को लेकर अपना पक्ष ... laaibrerii kii prabaNdhan Tiim se juRe kuchchh adhikaarii pustakaalay meN hindii kii kitaabeN rakhne ko lekar apnaa pakSH...
 उनके पुस्तकालयों में हिन्दी की पुस्तकें नाममात्र को मिलेंगी unke pustakaalayoN meN hindii kii pustakeN naam-maatr ko mileNgii.
​
What do you make out of these examples? Is there something noteworthy?


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## Qureshpor

Here are a few examples from the net of the use of "Urdu kii kitaabeN". I know this has never been a point of contention, but just for the record.

_*Urdu kii* bahut saarii *kitaabeN *is link par mileN gii.

_*اردو کی بہت ساری کتابیں اس لنک پر ملیں گی
*
http://urdunewsblog.wordpress.com/20...-80/#more-2424

raftah raftah dihlii, bamba'ii, Haidar-aabaad dakkan aur laahaur, Gharaz mulk ke sab baRe shahroN meN chhape xaane khul ga'e aur *Urdu kii kitaabeN* kasrat se shaa'i3 hone lagiiN.

رفتہ رفتہ دہلی ، بمبئی ، حیدرآباد دکن اور لاہور غرض ملک کے سب بڑے شہروں میں چھاپے خانے کھل گئے اور اردو کی کتابیں کثرت سے شائع ہونے لگیں

http://www.siratulhuda.com/forums/sh...82%D8%A7%D8%A1

paRhnaa ho to *Urdu kii kitaab* paRhiye

http://urduhyd.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0...s-reading.html

chunaaNchih jab mujhe patah chalaa ki shaambarg meN *Urdu kii kitaabeN *maujuud haiN to phir xud ko roknaa mushkil thaa- faur-an hii apne li'e vahaaN kii library..

 چنانچہ جب مجھے پتہ چلا کہ شامبرگ لائبریری میں _*اردو کی کتابیں*_ موجود ہیں تو پھر خود کو روکنا مشکل تھا – فوراً ہی اپنے لئے وہاں کی لائبریری *..
*
*http://urdu.dawn.com/2013/02/10/amre...eda-saleha-aq/*


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## Wolverine9

Thanks for the examples.

Isn't it supposed to be _pataa _instead of _patah_?  Typo?


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## Qureshpor

Wolverine9 said:


> Thanks for the examples.
> 
> Isn't it supposed to be _pataa _instead of _patah_? Typo?


In Urdu, both patah and pataa are written, the former being the common form. I have merely transcribed the original Urdu. So, it is not a typo.


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## Wolverine9

OK, I wasn't sure since I only saw _pataa _listed in Platts.


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## tonyspeed

How would you feel about "hindii meN likhii kitaabeN" as opposed to "hindii meN kitaabeN?


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## Qureshpor

^ The discussion is primarily about whether "Hindi kii kitaabeN" is correct in the given sentence or if "Hindi meN kitaabeN" is a better option. I am sure one can express this idea in other ways too.


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## marrish

tonyspeed said:


> How would you feel about "hindii meN likhii kitaabeN" as opposed to "hindii meN kitaabeN?


The first one sounds very well. Please do consider the numerous Hindi sentences in my previous post, it appears as if some sort of a pattern emerges from them.


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## marrish

Yesterday I read a Hindi short story written by Pandey Bechan Sharma 'Ugra'. This author is the very same person from whose work a particular sentence became the topic of discussion in one of the threads initiated by our PG SaaHib. Interested parties can access this thread through this link:* Hindi: द्विजगण का कलरव श्रवण करना ही रुचता था। *

*The short story is entitled ''खुदाराम KhudaRam'' - a very meaningful title, by the way!
It spans only 13 pages. You can read the whole text here (23 Hindi kahaaniyaaN –Saahitya Academy (Academy of Literature).On a couple of pages I found a number of references to the recently discussed threads. For your reading pleasure, I am going to post appropriate quotations. 

अब हमारे यहाँ बाक़ायदा आर्य-समाज भवन है और हैं उनके मन्त्री तथा सभापति। एक पुस्तकालय भी है और उसके सभी मन्त्री-सभापति हैं। हिन्दी के अनेक पत्र, अंग्रेज़ी के दो-तीन दैनिक आते हैं।

ab hamaare yahaaN baaqaaydaa aarya-samaaj bhavan hai aur haiN unke mantrii tathaa sabhaa-pati. ek pustakaalay bhii hai aur uske sabhii mantrii-sabhaapati haiN. *hindii ke anek patr, aNgrezii ke do-tiin dainik aate haiN. - *not  hindii meN patr, not aNgrezii meN dainik.

उस दिन आर्य समाज के पण्डित वासुदेव शर्मा समाज भवन में ही बैठे कोई उर्दू अख़बार पढ़ रहे थे।
us din aarya-samaaj ke paNDit vaasudev sharmaa samaaj bhavan meN hii baiThe koii *urduu axbaar paRh rahe the*. - in fact here, _urduu axbaar_ = _urduu kaa axbaar_.


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## greatbear

To posts 11, 12 and 19, it is hilarious how you try to switch an argument: I myself said in post 2 that "Hindi kii" in such a context is fairly common; what's with your Internet searches and examples? To avoid ambiguity, I prefer "meN" in such a context over "kii" - post 8 feels the same about it, btw. And Post 8 writer, the only other native Hindi speaker who has commented so far, doesn't find marrish's sentence all that ... well, whatever.


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## marrish

^ As I've already mentioned, the examples are not to convince anybody, it is for educational purposes only that I gave some examples from Hindi, where a pattern is to be noted, otherwise this thread would be very boring (so far nobody has tried to give it a try? Is there any pattern emerging or am I the only one that thinks there is something interesting?)

GB, I agree, you have said indeed that ''Hindi kii'' is fairly common and I understand your preference for ''meN'' - it is not such a big deal. However since I haven't got the privilege to call myself a native Hindi speaker, I have to look for literary sources by native Hindi speakers to make my point clear for everybody. In fact, you said in post #2 





> "Hindi kii" means books about Hindi (e.g. grammar books, dictionaries, etc.); I am cognisant of the fact that many people would use it (wrongly, IMO) for also books written in Hindi."Hindi meN" means books which are written in Hindi: which is what you were linking TS to.


 - so there is certainly some added value in my having entertained Forum friends with some Hindi phrases and literary usage, which is contrary to your opinion.

Do they get papers about Hindi and dailies about English in the library, or they get plenty of newspapers in Hindi and a couple of dailies in English?

Was the pundit reading some newspaper about Urdu or was he reading a newspaper in Urdu?


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## greatbear

I don't think you've got, marrish, that why IMO it ("kii" in your original sentence) was wrong: their usage is well established, but when something can introduce an element of unintended ambiguity, it is not fine language for me. One can only get papers and dailies in Hindi, in English; not about Hindi, not about English. "kii" doesn't introduce ambiguity there. One can easily use "kii" or "meN" there: I don't have any qualms. However, in a bookshop, or a library, especially in the context of a learner being advised to access it, you can find books/manuals _about_ Hindi (grammar, vocab., etc.) or _in_ Hindi. In _this and similar cases_, it is important - once again, IMO - to make a distinction: if you don't see my point, I regret I can't do anything more. For me, it is not that important whether one is pronouncing "phuul" or "fuul", because anyway any language will have drastically differing dialects: however, the subtlety of sense is important to me, and _that_, to me, is the hallmark of good language usage. My opinion may certainly differ from yours; there's no occasion for any of us to take the argument to some fractious end.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> I don't think you've got, marrish, that why IMO it ("kii" in your original sentence) was wrong: their usage is well established, but when something can introduce an element of unintended ambiguity, it is not fine language for me. One can only get papers and dailies in Hindi, in English; not about Hindi, not about English. "kii" doesn't introduce ambiguity there. One can easily use "kii" or "meN" there: I don't have any qualms. However, in a bookshop, or a library, especially in the context of a learner being advised to access it, you can find books/manuals _about_ Hindi (grammar, vocab., etc.) or _in_ Hindi. In _this and similar cases_, it is important - once again, IMO - to make a distinction: if you don't see my point, I regret I can't do anything more. For me, it is not that important whether one is pronouncing "phuul" or "fuul", because anyway any language will have drastically differing dialects: however, the subtlety of sense is important to me, and _that_, to me, is the hallmark of good language usage. My opinion may certainly differ from yours; there's no occasion for any of us to take the argument to some fractious end.


No, my opinion in general doesn't differ from yours but in case of this sentence it does, dramatically:

*marrish: I can recommend a site for Hindi prose (an online library).
*TS: shukriyaa. Now I can stop buying books online for a while.
*marrish*: *jii, ko'ii baat nahiiN, is meN aap ko Hindi kii bahut saarii kitaabeN mileN gii.*

I was under the impression that my interlocutor didn't have any problems with alleged ambiguity as he responded promptly. 

Can anyone else see any ambiguity in my  sentence? Could my recommendation be misunderstood? Could I have recommended *a site for **Hindi prose**, an online library* for manuals about Hindi grammar?


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## greatbear

^ You mean to say that a library doesn't contain books to learn languages? Well, I'd advise you to visit the nearest library, marrish!


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> ^ You mean to say that a library doesn't contain books to learn languages? Well, I'd advise you to visit the nearest library, marrish!


A library does have books for learning languages, but not a site, which is an online library, *for Hindi prose (गद्य)* greatbear! I think it is obvious what you can find there is prose in Hindi, not books for learning Hindi!
यह हिंदी गद्य की साइट है, हिंदी सीखने की नहीं,  जिसमें आप को भी हिन्दी की बहुत सारी किताबें पढ़ने को मिलेंगी.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> No, my opinion in general doesn't differ from yours but in case of this sentence it does, dramatically:
> 
> *marrish: I can recommend a site for Hindi prose (an online library).
> *TS: shukriyaa. Now I can stop buying books online for a while.
> *marrish*: *jii, ko'ii baat nahiiN, is meN aap ko Hindi kii bahut saarii kitaabeN mileN gii.*
> 
> I was under the impression that my interlocutor didn't have any problems with alleged ambiguity as he responded promptly.
> 
> Can anyone else see any ambiguity in my  sentence? Could my recommendation be misunderstood?Could I have recommended *a site for Hindi prose, an online library* for manuals about Hindi grammar?


 There is no ambiguity in your sentence whatsoever. But if someone wishes to throw red herrings and finds faults with the said sentence just to create mischief, then that of course is another matter. If your recommendation was not clear and prone to misunderstanding, its recipient namely TS would have said so. Strangely enough, he has not entered this debate to express his concerns about the ambiguity of this sentence. Does this not prove something?

Grammar books, including Hindi, are normally in prose. But, your sentences as quoted below could never be taken to include anything else but works of fiction in prose.

I think another word for ''a poem'' in Hindi is पद्य ''_padya'' as opposed to ''prose'' - गद्य''gadya'' (if you happen to have interest and time, I can recommend a site for Hindi prose (an online library).
_
You have made your point clear in Post 23 and I see debating this issue any further a complete waste of time.


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## marrish

I agree, all what should have been said has already been repeated for the umpteenth time. I only hope that someone can show interest in the examples I provided above and attempt to draw some conclusions.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I agree, all what should have been said has already been repeated for the umpteenth time. I only *hope* that someone can show interest in the examples I provided above and attempt to draw some conclusions.


One lives in hope but don't be disappointed if no one makes any attempt to look into your request.


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## greatbear

In any case, it is heartening to see the mutual admiration society always functioning well.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> In any case, it is heartening to see the mutual admiration society always functioning well.


The hatred based accusation technique has been also proven to be functioning, but not very well - in fact it has been exposed in this thread. If you don't have anything more to say on the topic, silence is the best friend.


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## marrish

Alfaaz SaaHib, may I have please your opinion on my and greatbears's sentence please?


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Alfaaz SaaHib, may I have please your opinion on my and greatbears's sentence please?


I try to avoid participating in threads where there are such arguments, but since you have especially asked, I will only say that I have heard both versions being used. Thanks to all the participants for their analyses!


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> I try to avoid participating in threads where there are such arguments, but since you have especially asked, I will only say that I have heard both versions being used. Thanks to all the participants for their analyses!


I'm immensely indebted for your participation. 

Believe me, I have the same attitude as you have. In this thread I couldn't find anything controversial, it is purely focused on the language. 

Since you have cared to speak, unlike tens of readers, could you please tell me whether gb's assertions were right? Do I speak wrong Urdu?


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Since you have cared to speak, unlike tens of readers, could you please tell me whether gb's assertions were right? Do I speak wrong Urdu?


 It seems the idea can be and is expressed in a variety of ways. Out of those, this is what usually seems to be heard: 
_is meN/yahaaN aap ko Hindi ki...  
is meN/yahaaN app ko Hindi (rasm-ul-khatt) meN..._ 

The mileNgi vs. mileN gi issue was already addressed as being a matter of difference in scripts.


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