# riding pillion [AE]



## High on grammar

Hello everyone:

What’s the American equivalent of “*to* *ride pillion*” as in "she was *riding pillion on* her husband’s bike"?

Source: myself


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## The Newt

High on grammar said:


> Hello everyone:
> 
> What’s the American equivalent of “*to* *ride pillion*” as in "she was *riding pillion on* her husband’s bike"?
> 
> Source: myself



Can you explain what that means?


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## JBarDom

It's just a guess to what I think you mean through the example.

Ride piggy-back, although I am not sure you can apply the word in the context of riding a bike as a secondary, non-pedalling rider.


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## High on grammar

The Newt said:


> Can you explain what that means?





The Newt said:


> Can you explain what that means?



_Sitting behind the person riding a motorbike, bicycle or horse._


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## sdgraham

Try "riding double."
What You Need to Know About Riding Double - Horses & Foals


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## Ponyprof

Nobody uses the word riding pillion anymore since horses are not used as a basic means of transport in the English speaking world. 

Riding pillion on a horse is very much a medieval or renaissance thing. After the introduction of decent coaching roads in Britain over the 18th century women and children and nonriders travelled by cart or coach or carriage rather than pillion. 

These days the only people who "ride double" on horses are kids fooling around without adult supervision.

Is riding pillion a current British term for riding double on a motorcycle? I have never heard it in North America. Here we would probably just call it riding double or riding on the back of a motor bike. It is not common, but you see it sometimes on big Harley Davidson motorcycles.

Riding double or triple or more is more common obviously in Asia. And Europe and even Britain probably have a larger proportion of scooters and small motorcycles in use. Where I live in Canada they are not that common these days and tend to only appear in summer. Weather, heavy traffic, and long distances make them less popular. So it's much less likely that you'd see someone give a friend a ride home on the back of a small motorcycle.


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## tunaafi

Ponyprof said:


> Is riding pillion a current British term for riding double on a motorcycle?


It is.


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## High on grammar

So can I say, "he was *riding piggyback* on her husband's bike" or " he was *riding double* with her husband on his bike"?


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## PaulQ

Ponyprof said:


> Nobody uses the word riding pillion any more


...except the BE speaking world...


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## Myridon

If you're a member of a chauvinist motorcycle club, it's called "riding bitch" or "riding in the bitch seat."  I don't suggest you use that.


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## sdgraham

High on grammar said:


> So can I say, "he was *riding piggyback* on her husband's bike" or " he was *riding double* with her husband on his bike"?


To me, piggyback implies that he s on top of her husband's shoulders and he's doing the pedaling and steering.
I have never encountered it to mean "riding double."


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## High on grammar

Sorry for the typo: She was *riding piggyback* on her husband's bike" or "She was *riding double* with her husband on his bike."


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## PaulQ




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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> View attachment 37467


The same as AmE "piggyback".  You might see clowns riding piggyback on a tiny motorcycle at the circus.


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## High on grammar

PaulQ said:


> View attachment 37467



That's what I thought, too. But I have found two examples in print using '*piggyback*' meaning '*riding pillion*':

He had been able to hold his own just fine on his jerry-rigged bike—that is, until Junior Mullins showed up for the game, *riding piggyback on *Charlie Bester’s motorcycle.

*Foggy Mountain Breakdown and Other Stories*
By Sharyn McCrumb


I'd never explicitly been told the rule about getting *on the back* of _*a motorcycle*_ with _*a*_ guy I'd just met whose last name, intentions, and driving record I didn't know ... “My mother warned me never to go _*piggyback riding*_ without wearing _*a*_ helmet.

*Always Forever Maybe*
By Anica Mrose Rissi


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## Myridon

High on grammar said:


> That's what I thought, too. But I have found two examples in print using '*piggyback*' meaning '*riding pillion*':
> 
> By Sharyn McCrumb
> 
> By Anica Mrose Rissi


You can find examples of everything on the Internet. I'm betting Sharyn and Anica have never ridden a motorcycle.


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## High on grammar

So, here's my question again: Can I say, "She was *riding double *on her husband's bike"?
because I never got the answer.


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## kentix

Was her husband the other person on the bike?


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## High on grammar

kentix said:


> Was her husband the other person on the bike?



Yes. The husband was the one riding the bike, and she was the one sitting behind him.


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## kentix

The way you have it written it's unclear if he was involved.

It would be clearer to say she was riding double with her husband on his motorcycle. If the context was clear from earlier sentences, you could just say she was riding double with her husband. Or maybe "she was riding behind her husband on his motorcycle".

(I'm speaking as someone with no direct knowledge of motorcycle culture and vocabulary.)


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## High on grammar

kentix said:


> The way you have it written it's unclear if he was involved.
> 
> It would be clearer to say she was riding double with her husband on his motorcycle. If the context was clear from earlier sentences, you could just say she was riding double with her husband. Or maybe "she was riding behind her husband on his motorcycle".
> 
> (I'm speaking as someone with no direct knowledge of motorcycle culture and vocabulary.)



That's what wrote in #12.


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## natkretep

We say 'riding pillion' and refer to 'pillion riders' here too. Wikipedia has this to say about American usage:


> "Riding two up" and "riding double" are common North American phrases for riding with a passenger.
> 
> "Riding bitch" is an American expression, denoting sitting between two other people in a car or truck, where the transmission housing often forms a hump in the front or back analogous to a pillion. "Bitch seat" and "bitch pad" are North American slang for the pillion on a motorcycle; "riding bitch" is North American slang for "riding pillion".[5][6][7]
> 
> In the Philippines, riding pillion is called "riding in tandem".


Pillion - Wikipedia


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## sdgraham

This is tandem bike riding hereabouts:


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## natkretep

Yes, in BrE too.


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## dojibear

High on grammar said:


> So, here's my question again: Can I say, "She was *riding double *on her husband's bike"?
> because I never got the answer.


Is this a motorcycle or a bicycle? It changes the words.

Many motorcycles are designed for 2 people. There are 2 seats. The front person handles all the controls. The other person sits right behind them (on the other seat) as a passenger. If this is the situation, I would just say "She was riding with her husband on his motorcycle." There is no need for "double" or a similar word. The "with" phrase tells the reader 2 people were involved.

If this is a bicycle, it is not possible: there aren't 2 seats. She can't do it, so you can't say it.

The only exception is a "tandem bicycle" as shown in post #23's picture. In that situation I would say "She and her husband were riding a *tandem bicycle*".


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## High on grammar

natkretep said:


> We say 'riding pillion' and refer to 'pillion riders' here too. Wikipedia has this to say about American usage:
> 
> Pillion - Wikipedia


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## natkretep

dojibear said:


> Many motorcycles are designed for 2 people. There are 2 seats. The front person handles all the controls. The other person sits right behind them (on the other seat) as a passenger. If this is the situation, I would just say "She was riding with her husband on his motorcycle." Note that "riding" means she is a passenger and her husband was "driving" the motorcycle.


Is that ordinary North American usage? I don't think I'd ever use 'driving' in relation to a motorcycle. The person who steers and controls the motorcycle is 'riding' in my usage.  I think your word _passenger _might be useful for High-on-grammar, because I'd understand it as the pillion rider.

Although less common, it is possible to get bicycles with pillion seats.


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## dojibear

natkretep said:


> Is that ordinary North American usage? I don't think I'd ever use 'driving' in relation to a motorcycle.


Good point. I agree. Thank you! 

We don't say "driving" for motorcycles, bicycles or horses. We say "riding", even for the person who is in control.

I'll remove the "driving" sentence in post #25. But don't change post #27 or this post, since this is a worthwhile comment about about North American English.


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## PaulQ

High on grammar said:


> Can I say, "She was *riding double *on her husband's bike"?


No.


Myridon said:


> The same as AmE "piggyback".


Ah... but "piggyback" does not include sitting on someone's shoulders - that would be "[getting] a shoulder ride."


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## london calling

tunaafi said:


> It is.


Indeed.


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## High on grammar

dojibear said:


> Is this a motorcycle or a bicycle?



In American English, '*bike*' could also mean motorcycle, and that's what I meant.


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## High on grammar

PaulQ said:


> No.
> 
> Ah... but "piggyback" does not include sitting on someone's shoulders - that would be "[getting] a shoulder ride."



Why not? Here's an Example:

I loved _*riding double with her*_. I didn't have a bike of my own.

*The Reluctant Psychic: A Memoir*
By Suzan Saxman, Perdita Finn

here's another one:

I thought of us _*riding double on his*_ red tenspeed bike.
Night Blindness
By Susan Strecker


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## kentix

You can ride double on a ten-speed if the person pedaling stands and the person in the back sits.


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## High on grammar

kentix said:


> You can ride double on a ten-speed if the person pedaling stands and the person in the back sits.



When I say 'bike' I mean motorcycle. I've said it before.


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## Roxxxannne

High on grammar said:


> When I say 'bike' I mean motorcycle. I've said it before.


But if Susan Strecker is writing in American English, then in the sentence "I thought of us _*riding double on his*_ red tenspeed bike." the vehicle is a bicycle with ten speeds (ten gears), not a motorcycle or motorbike.

The two people could be riding as kentix describes it in #33.


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## Loob

I'm intrigued by HoG's question too, now.

Can you say in AmE:
_She was riding double on her husband's motorbike._
?


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## High on grammar

Roxxxannne said:


> But if Susan Strecker is writing in American English, then in the sentence "I thought of us _*riding double on his*_ red tenspeed bike." the vehicle is a bicycle with ten speeds (ten gears), not a motorcycle or motorbike.
> 
> The two people could be riding as kentix describes it in #33.



So apparently, there are some bicycles big enough for two or even three people, and I'm not talking about *tandem* bicycles.


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## High on grammar

Loob said:


> I'm intrigued by HoG's question too, now.
> 
> Can you say in AmE:
> _She was riding double on her husband's motorbike._
> ?




here's another example, Loob:
7:15 – 7:20 pm: Gellatly told police he was riding south on County Road to get his swimming trunks from home when he met Steven and Lynne between the school and Lawson's Bush _*riding double on his bike*_
Canada's Big Lie
By Dennis McDonough


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## kentix

All of those references are to people riding bicycles.


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## Packard

Myridon said:


> If you're a member of a chauvinist motorcycle club, it's called "riding bitch" or "riding in the bitch seat."  I don't suggest you use that.


So crude. 

I was going to say "riding passenger" on a motorcycle.

For those not familiar with "pillion" on a motorcycle it is a small seat behind the driver.  It is not a commonly used word.


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## Loob

So you'd say _She was riding passenger on her husband's motorcycle, _not_ She was riding double on her husband's motorcycle, _MrP?


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## High on grammar

kentix said:


> All of those references are to people riding bicycles.



I don't get your point. First you guys say it is not possible to ride double on a bicycle, and now you say all of those references are to people riding bicycles. So what's the difference between my use of "ride double" and those sentences that I have cited. And again, "by bike", I mean motorcycle.


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## kentix

My point is you keep saying you're talking about motorcycles but then you keep quoting passages referring to bicycles.

Normal bicycles aren't designed to carry two people but some people manage to carry a passenger by riding in a way that the bicycle was not designed to be used. People, especially young people, are adaptable and find ways to make things work. When my friends and I were young, some people managed to carry another person on the handlebars of their bicycle. I don't think anyone would ever ride a motorcycle that way.





In contrast, many motorcycles are designed to carry a passenger.

Many bikes that were sold when I was growing up came with a banana seat. They weren't exactly designed for a passenger but it made carrying someone else easier.


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## High on grammar

The point is not whether those sentences that I have cited are references to bicycles or whether they refer to motorbikes. The point is if it is okay to use ‘ride double’ in a bicycle context and it is okay to use ‘ride double’ in motorbike or motorcycle context, then, the sentence that I wrote originally is correct, isn't it?


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## Roxxxannne

High on grammar said:


> So apparently, there are some bicycles big enough for two or even three people, and I'm not talking about *tandem* bicycles.


No, it's a regular bicycle designed for one person.
1. One person stands on the pedals and holds onto the handlebars.  The other person sits on the seat and holds onto the person pedaling or onto the shelf for carrying things that's mounted over the back fender.
.) One person sits on the seat and pedals.  The other person sits facing sideways or forwards on the shelf over the back fender.
3. One person sits on the seat and pedals. The other person sits sideways on the horizontal bar that goes from the post under the seat to the post under the handlebars.
4.  You could attach a seat over the front fender too, in the same way as you attach the shelf on the back fender.


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## High on grammar

Roxxxannne said:


> No, it's a regular bicycle designed for one person.
> 1. One person stands on the pedals and holds onto the handlebars.  The other person sits on the seat and holds onto the person pedaling or onto the shelf for carrying things that's mounted over the back fender.
> .) One person sits on the seat and pedals.  The other person sits facing sideways or forwards on the shelf over the back fender.
> 3. One person sits on the seat and pedals. The other person sits sideways on the horizontal bar that goes from the post under the seat to the post under the handlebars.
> 4.  You could attach a seat over the front fender too, in the same way as you attach the shelf on the back fender.



So how would you describe the way the girl in the picture is sitting behind the guy riding the bike?


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## Roxxxannne

I'd say they're doing a very good job of riding double on what traditionally would have been her bike (because there's no horizontal bar going forward from the seat that would have interfered with a woman's skirt).


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## Myridon

I might say she's riding sidesaddle on the back of the bike.


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## High on grammar

Thank you all very much.


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## kentix

I would say she's riding on the back of his bike. She's not a passenger in the same way as someone riding on the back of a motorcycle is.


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## Uncle Jack

High on grammar said:


> The point is not whether those sentences that I have cited are references to bicycles or whether they refer to motorbikes.


In English, this is very important, since it is exceptionally rare (in Britain and America) to sit two people on a bicycle, and if you do there are at least three ways of doing so (in front, behind, and on a separate seat as in a tandem), none of which have established terms that I am aware of, whereas it is common (in Britain at any rate) to sit two people on a motorbike, and there is only one way of doing it (riding pillion, in BrE).


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## london calling

Packard said:


> For those not familiar with "pillion" on a motorcycle it is a small seat behind the driver.  It is not a commonly used word.


It's common in BE. That's what we say, as a n matter of fact.


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