# Passive - Reporting verbs



## Caleín

Hi!

I'm organizing my grammar information about passive. Now I'm working with reporting verbs and I have some problems to put the information into easier groups.

Is there a mistake in this example?:
People said that police is efficient  It's said that police is efficient.

--Would have the first phrase to be "People say that..."?
--Is this a case of _It anticipatorio_?

Is there any other mistake here?
--People said that police was efficient  Police was said to be efficient.

Thanks a lot.


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## donbill

Caleín said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm organizing my grammar information about passive. Now I'm working with reporting verbs and I have some problems to put the information into easier groups.
> 
> Is there a mistake in this example?:
> People said that police is efficient  It's said that police is efficient.
> 
> --Would have the first phrase to be "People say that..."?
> --Is this a case of _It anticipatorio_?
> 
> Is there any other mistake here?
> --People said that police was efficient  Police was said to be efficient.
> 
> Thanks a lot.



a1.   People say that the police department is efficient.
a2.  It is said that the police department is efficient.
b1.  People say that the police are efficient. 
b2.  It is said that the police are efficient. (collective plural)

past tense:
People said that the police are/were efficient.
It was said that the police are/were efficient.

No entiendo "it anticipatorio". En inglés tenemos que expresar el sujeto impersonal. Usamos "it" para expresarlo.


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## blasita

> People said that the police are/were efficient.
> It was said that the police are/were efficient.
> 
> No entiendo "it anticipatorio". En inglés tenemos que expresar el sujeto impersonal. Usamos "it" para expresarlo.



Yes, donbill, I think some grammar books call it _preparatory ´it´_; e.g. *It* was thought that she was a spy; *It* was said...

In the sentences above, donbill has given you present and past tenses. I think this is because the reporter can choose whether to keep the original speaker´s tenses or to change them (e.g. if they are still efficient: the speaker may not change them and would say ´are´).  Am I right?? Please correct me if not!

Un saludo .


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## donbill

blasita said:


> Yes, donbill, I think some grammar books call it _preparatory ´it´_; e.g. *It* was thought that she was a spy; *It* was said...
> 
> In the sentences above, donbill has given you present and past tenses. I think this is because the reporter can choose whether to keep the original speaker´s tenses or to change them (e.g. if they are still efficient: the speaker may not change them and would say ´are´).  Am I right?? Please correct me if not!
> 
> Un saludo .



blasita, I haven't found any reason to correct you yet! You're on target with your comments and observations.

I included present and past because they can be confusing with passive voice--or at least I think they can. And, too, the remarks made in the past can have relevance to the present: "It *was* said yesterday that the police *are* efficient." To me this means that the police were judged to be efficient then and they still are. "It *was* said yesterday that the police *were* efficient" probably means that they still are, but more context could show just the opposite: "_It *was* said yesterday that the police *were* efficient under the directorship of Captain Fulano, but all of that has changed. They* are* now inefficient under the command of Captain Mengano."_

That may be much more information than you wanted, but I had a good time writing it. 

Saludos


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## blasita

> That may be much more information than you wanted, but I had a good time writing it.



Never, never too much!  Especially coming from you.  Very clear and extended explanation; I´ve got it clear, and you, Caleín?

Many thanks, donbill  (I personally love the ´Fulano, Mengano´ ).  Un saludo.


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## Caleín

Many many thanks for your help.

Yes, I understand what you have been talking about the different use between are/were.

I have done this outline with all the information you gave me and with I could read in the books I have.

*The passive is often used with say, believe, understand, Know, think, like, feel, consider, find and similar verbs used un reporting to avoid an impersonal they or people:*

*-- after the "introductory it"* (Donbill, I don't remember where I read "it anticipatorio", but in a book I'm using these days appears this other).
*-- before an infinitive.*

*Well, my conclusions are:*

1.- These are two different ways to express the same thing to avoid to use the same sentence: _people say_, _think_, etc.
2.- They are interchangeable, I mean, I can choose to use one or another because I'm starting from the first sentence: (_people say_, etc.)

I mainly had all this problem because grammars complicate explanations dividing between present reference, past reference, past reporting verb, etc. Following your explanations, Donbill, I summarize all this as you can see above:



donbill said:


> a1. People say that the police department is efficient.
> a2. It is said that the police department is efficient.
> b1. People say that the police are efficient.
> b2. It is said that the police are efficient. (collective plural)
> 
> These four are present-present.
> 
> past tense:
> People said that the police are/were efficient. Past-present or past-past
> It was said that the police are/were efficient. And I think we can imagine other form present-past
> People say that the police were efficient
> The police is said to have been efficient = It is said that the police were efficient


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## donbill

Hola Caleín,_

The police is said to have been efficient_ would be rare simply because it's a fairly complicated construction.  _It is said that_ _the police were efficient_ is okay.

There are all sorts of possibilities with it + be + participle + inf:

It is (believed, thought, known, considered, found, understood, said) to be the most difficult aspect of English grammar.

Saludos


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## Caleín

> _The police is said to have been efficient_ would be rare simply because it's a fairly complicated construction. _It is said that_ _the police were efficient_ is okay.


 
I know, it is more complicated, but this is normal when you are reading grammars and books that show you all the cases, even the less commons. Do you agree with my "green explanation" and my "red conclusions"?

Thanks Donbill and Blasita (the other day) for your answers.


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## blasita

> There are all sorts of possibilities with it + be + participle + inf:
> 
> It is (believed, thought, known, considered, found, understood, said) to be the most difficult aspect of English grammar.



Agree.  And Caleín, if you really care about the name of the ´it´: as I said in my first post, it is called (in most grammars) _preparatory it_.  I´ve seen also ´introductory´ but I don´t think that the name is too important.  Donbill has just given you the structure; also here (these are not passive, though):

_It is important to book in advance./It is probable that we´ll be late./It is worth going to Paris if you have the time./It took me months to get to know him./It was Peter that my aunt took to Madrid yesterday _(cleft sentence), etc, etc.



> Originally Posted by donbill
> a2. It is said that the police department is efficient.
> b2. It is said that the police are efficient. (collective plural)
> 
> These four are present-present. *We are not reporting here, in my opinion, Caleín.*
> 
> past tense:
> People said that the police are/were efficient. Past-present or past-past
> It was said that the police are/were efficient. And I think we can imagine other form present-past.  *Here we are reporting: ´People SAID THAT.../It WAS SAID THAT...*



Un saludito .


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## blasita

> Well, my conclusions are:
> 
> 1.- These are two different ways to express the same thing to avoid to use the same sentence: people say, think, etc.
> 2.- They are interchangeable, I mean, I can choose to use one or another because I'm starting from the first sentence: (people say, etc.)



Sorry, I´m lost now; I don´t know what you exactly mean, so I´m going back to your first post and try to help:



> Is there a mistake in this example?:
> People said that police is efficient  It's said that police is efficient.  *No, I don´t think there´s a mistake.  My opinion is that e.g. People say...   is more informal than It´s said that... But I think (you talked about reporting verbs) even the second one is passive, but direct speech (?).*_
> 
> Is there any other mistake here?
> --People said that police was efficient.  Police was said to be efficient. *I think they´re okay too; the second one being more formal (?).*_


_ 

Let´s see what the others have to say about this._


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## Caleín

Gracias, no me interesa ese nombre (it anticipatorio) en particular. Además ahora ya tenemos hasta tres formas diferentes . Lo realmente importante es comprender y empezar a usar cada estructura.

En mis apuntes tenía mezclado el reporting con it y con infinitivo tras pasiva y es un lío; más aún cuando tratas de armonizar unas notas personales a partir de varias fuentes.

No entiendo por qué dices que uno es _reporting_ y otro no si sólo existe una diferencia de tiempo. Lo que he visto hasta ahora es que puedo expresar lo mismo utilizando una estructura u otra.

_Donbill, I think you also understand Spanish_._ If not, tell me._

Perdonad, se puede ver que mi nivel de inglés es bajo. Gracias por la ayuda.


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## donbill

Caleín said:


> Gracias, no me interesa ese nombre (it anticipatorio) en particular. Además ahora ya tenemos hasta tres formas diferentes . Lo realmente importante es comprender y empezar a usar cada estructura.
> 
> En mis apuntes tenía mezclado el reporting con it y con infinitivo tras pasiva y es un lío; más aún cuando tratas de armonizar unas notas personales a partir de varias fuentes.
> 
> No entiendo por qué dices que uno es _reporting_ y otro no si sólo existe una diferencia de tiempo. Lo que he visto hasta ahora es que puedo expresar lo mismo utilizando una estructura u otra.
> 
> _Donbill, I think you also understand Spanish_._ If not, tell me._
> 
> Perdonad, se puede ver que mi nivel de inglés es bajo. Gracias por la ayuda.



Pues, claro que lo entiendo. Es el idioma de la gente más culta del mundo.


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## blasita

Donbill entiende y sabe más español  que yo .

Creo que estás dando por supuesto que _reporting/indirect speech_=_passive._ Y no es así, creo.  Pero creo que te estoy confundiendo; dejo a otros que saben más que yo.

Mi intento: _People say... = It´s said... (not indirect speech).
People said that ... = They said that ... (indirect speech)._


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## Caleín

I said:


> *Well, my conclusions are:*
> 
> 1.- These are two different ways to express the same thing to avoid to use the same sentence: _people say_, _think_, etc.
> 2.- They are interchangeable, I mean, I can choose to use one or another because I'm starting from the first sentence: (_people say_, etc.)


 
What I was trying to say:
-- hay dos maneras diferentes de evitar expresiones como "la gente dice...", "la gente piensa...", etc.: usando it o un infintivo que sigue a pasiva.
-- A partir de esa estructura inicial ("la gente dice, etc.") es posible construir una frase tanto de un modo como de otro.

Todas esas reflexiones son mis conclusiones a lo largo de estos días revisando el tema.

Con mis entendederas no estoy demostrando que hablo el idioma de los más cultos del mundo . ¡Vaya lío que estoy montando! El caso es que así me expreso de forma más precisa que en inglés.

Muchas gracias de nuevo.


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## donbill

Caleín said:


> I said:
> 
> What I was trying to say:
> -- hay dos maneras diferentes de evitar expresiones como "la gente dice...", "la gente piensa...", etc.: usando it o un infintivo que sigue a pasiva.
> -- A partir de esa estructura inicial ("la gente dice, etc.") es posible construir una frase tanto de un modo como de otro.



a.  People say that Spanish is easier to learn than English.
b.  They [impersonal] say that Spanish is easier to learn than English.

c.  It is said that Spanish is easier to learn than English.

Oraciones "a" y "b" son coloquiales y conversacionales. Oración "c" es más formal. Los preceptistas nos dicen que es mejor no usar la voz pasiva, pero en ciertos contextos encuentro muy apropiado su uso. 

d. One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English.

Oración "d" no es conversacional y, a pesar de ser en voz activa, me suena menos deseable que oración "c".

Todo esto es un punto de partida. ¿Seguimos?

Saludos

p.d. Soy daltónico. Por eso tus oraciones en verde y rojo no me ayudan a entender tus dificultades.


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## blasita

Perfecta explicación de donbill, ¿no crees?

Mi problema es que no entendía a lo que te referías (primera oración, etc); espero que no el idioma... (lo digo por mí).

A final thought (and I hope I´m right here): for most verbs it´s okay (about the infinitive) e.g. _It was thought .../It was felt .../It was decided to ..._, but I think e.g. _It is hoped to ... _; here you must say _We hope ..._

Espero que te hayan podido ayudar. Un saludo.


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## donbill

blasita said:


> A final thought (and I hope I´m right here): for most verbs it´s okay (about the infinitive) e.g. _It was thought .../It was felt .../It was decided to ..._, but I think e.g. _It is hoped to ... _; here you must say _We hope ..._



_It was thought (considered, said, felt, known) to be a topic that deserved further study._

I had never thought about _hope_ in this context. (We rarely _*think*_ about our own language!) You can say "_It is hoped that the explanation will help," _but _"We hope the explanation will help" _sounds better to me.

??_The explanations are hoped to help_. (It may be grammatically acceptable, but it sounds really strange to me.) On the other hand, I would say, _"The explanations are expected to help."_

I'm the one who's confused now!

saludos


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## Caleín

Tranquila Blasita, probablemente yo me expliqué mal. Donde ya puede ser difícil la concreción de un punto de vista en pocas palabras, se une el empleo de un idioma que uno no domina (pero que hay que practicar).

Siento el tema de los colores, Donbill, pero suelo emplearlos para hacer más sencilla la lectura de mis mensajes; en especial los que son tan largos.

Thank you for your answers. We’re receiving a free long-distance class . It'd be a great opotunity if you continue. I’m trying to have a global view. By this reason I am also considering the least colloquial cases.
Here are your examples and other two more sentences. The others in italics are the ones I suggest. Maybe they are not colloquial, but grammatically possible and correct. Do you agree?


People say that Spanish is easier to learn than English (coloquial).
They [impersonal] say that Spanish is easier to learn than English (coloquial).
It is said that Spanish is easier to learn than English (formal pero podría emplearse).
One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English (no conversacional y a pesar de no ser pasiva, parece menos adecuada que con it).

People think that Smith is in England.
Smith is thought to be in England.
_= = = = = =_

_Spanish is said to be easier to learn than English._

_It is thought that Smith is in England._
Many many thanks. Saludos.


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## blasita

> People say that Spanish is easier to learn than English (coloquial).
> They [impersonal] say that Spanish is easier to learn than English (coloquial).
> It is said that Spanish is easier to learn than English (formal pero podría emplearse).
> One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English (no conversacional y a pesar de no ser pasiva, parece menos adecuada que con it).
> People think that Smith is in England.
> Smith is thought to be in England.
> = = = = = =
> Spanish is said to be easier to learn than English.
> It is thought that Smith is in England.



I think that (if a verb can be put into passive) generally, *all passive sentences are more formal*, and so more used in (formal) writing.  We are not so interested in saying who/what does/did it.

That´s why we tend to use _people, everybody, they, you, etc._ at the beginning of the sentence to turn the passive into active when speaking (but we may also decide to use passives because of other reasons when we talk!). I agree that _one_ is possible but a bit formal (less natural?).

Just a thought: _Spanish is said to be easier to learn than English. _ _They say Spanish to be easier than English. _  (I think with ´say´ here, the infinitive structure is only possible in the passive). But: 





> _They [impersonal] say that Spanish is easier to learn than English (coloquial). _



Please correct me if I´m wrong.  But wait; the expert ideas are coming ... . Un saludo.


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## donbill

Caleín said:


> People think that Smith is in England.
> Smith is thought to be in England.
> _= = = = = =_
> 
> _Spanish is said to be easier to learn than English._
> 
> 
> _It is thought that Smith is in England._
> Many many thanks. Saludos.



a.  Smith is (thought, said, believed) to be in England.
b.  It is (thought, said, believed) that Smith is in England.
c.  People/They (think, say, believe) that Smith is in England.

En mi opinión, oración 'c' es la más conversacional. No veo mucha diferencia entre 'a' y 'b'.

Saludos


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## Caleín

After several days without answer, here I am ...



blasita said:


> Just a thought: _Spanish is said to be easier to learn than English. _ _They say Spanish to be easier than English. _ (I think with ´say´ here, the infinitive structure is only possible in the passive). But:
> 
> Please correct me if I´m wrong. But wait; the expert ideas are coming ... . Un saludo.


 
_They say Spanish to be easier than English_ doesn't sound very well. You have to conjugate the verb to be or make a passive, I think. This way is to speak like Indian p Don't angry with me  _Will be this correct?_) 

Donbill, your last comments helped me to close more or less a general view about passive. Although I think I made a small confusion dividing into present-present, present-past... With time I'll had a perspective about what is really used in formal-informal language.

Many thanks, Donbill and Blasita.


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## blasita

> They say Spanish to be easier than English doesn't sound very well. You have to conjugate the verb to be or make a passive, I think.



That´s why I wrote a , Caleín .  Un saludito.


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## duvija

"And a good time was had by all" (que se supone que no es gramaticalmente aceptable, pero en reuniones de lingüistas todos la usan)


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## donbill

duvija said:


> "And a good time was had by all" (que se supone que no es gramaticalmente aceptable, pero en reuniones de lingüistas todos la usan)



¡Aceptable pero muy cursi!


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## kalamazoo

I object to the following sentence:

One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English 

I am not sure how to describe what is wrong with it, but I think it's wrong.  It is personifying "one" as an actor who does something, which is strange. It would be usual (though a little formal) to have a sentence like "one often hears that Spanish is easier.." or even a sentence like "One might say that Spanish is easier..." but I really don't like the "One says..." version at all.


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## k-in-sc

They say it's easier to learn Spanish than English. 
One says ... 
It is said ...


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## blasita

> They say it's easier to learn Spanish than English.
> One says ...
> It is said ...



Thanks, k-in-sc, for confirming what I said in post #19. 



> One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English. I am not sure how to describe what is wrong with it, but I think it's wrong. It is personifying "one" as an actor who does something, which is strange. It would be usual (though a little formal) to have a sentence like "one often hears that Spanish is easier.." or even a sentence like "One might say that Spanish is easier..." but I really don't like the "One says..." version at all.



Yes, kalamazoo, _one_ wasn´t actually an option I gave, but anyway I think the foreros who really know about what we´re talking about, agree with you.

I´m a non-native speaker, but I can tell you what I remember learning some time ago:  _One_ and _you_ are only used in general statements, i.e. talking about anyone, at any time. E.g. _One speaks English in this shop._  _They speak English in this shop. English is spoken in this shop._ 
And means ´any individual´ (usually it´s not used to refer to whole groups); e.g. _One speaks a strange dialect where I come from._  _We speak a strange dialect where I come from._ 
But: _One/You should never give people advice._  (? I think they´re both fine, but _you_ is said more often.)
I think that generally, when _one_ is used as an indefinite personal pronoun, is more formal and then it may be used more in writing than in speech.

Sorry for the long post, but my intention is that you correct me if necessary, and esp this is very likely to be useful to some other foreros. Thank you very much.



> "And a good time was had by all"


  Agree with the idea, duvija: me lo he pasado genial; te habla una cursi .


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## donbill

kalamazoo said:


> I object to the following sentence:
> 
> One says that it is easier to learn Spanish than English
> 
> I am not sure how to describe what is wrong with it, but I think it's wrong.  It is personifying "one" as an actor who does something, which is strange. It would be usual (though a little formal) to have a sentence like "one often hears that Spanish is easier.." or even a sentence like "One might say that Spanish is easier..." but I really don't like the "One says..." version at all.





k-in-sc said:


> They say it's easier to learn Spanish than English.
> One says ...
> It is said ...



I respectfully disagree. Although the sentence ("One says...") sounds awkward, and although I would not be likely to say it, I find nothing wrong with it grammatically.


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## donbill

blasita said:


> te habla una cursi .



I STRENUOUSLY disagree with the content of "te habla una cursi." You're not cursi. Trust me! Te habla un experto.


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## k-in-sc

OK, "it is said" isn't incorrect, just too formal for most uses. But I reject "one says" for the same reasons as kalamazoo.


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## donbill

k-in-sc said:


> OK, "it is said" isn't incorrect, just too formal for most uses. But I reject "one says" for the same reasons as kalamazoo.



I wouldn't say it, but I see no problem with its structure.

One says that Spanish is easy
One sees that Spanish is easy
One hears that Spanish is easy
One observes that Spanish is easy

I'll admit that "one says" in this sentence bothers me simply because of the way it sounds, but I don't see it as grammatically (structurally) incorrect.

What if we added a modal? "One may say that Spanish is easier to learn than English, but I disagree."


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## k-in-sc

Grammatically correct, probably, but it still sounds awful. So why bother with it when there are far better ways to say it?
What's the good of determining something is grammatically correct if no one would ever use it?


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## blasita

I cannot talk on behalf of donbill (gracias por tu comentario ) at all, but personally I _do_ bother, mainly because of academic reasons, but also my thirst for knowledge and trying to improve/I like to keep on improving both my English and Spanish .

But yes, I´m very interested in knowing what it´s said rather than what´s in the books, so thanks, k-in-sc and donbill!

Saludos cordiales.


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## blasita

I´ve noticed that you´ve edited your last post and added this (or sorry I hadn´t noticed it, I´m getting old): 





> What's the good of determining something is grammatically correct if no one would ever use it?


My personal aim/reply to this is above.  I think you´re right in one way: what it counts is what we say/hear.  But I think (and please, I may be wrong! It´s just my opinion/experience!) there are some differences (in _most_ languages) regarding formality and varieties of that language.

Un saludito.


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## donbill

k-in-sc said:


> Grammatically correct, probably, but it still sounds awful. So why bother with it when there are far better ways to say it?
> What's the good of determining something is grammatically correct if no one would ever use it?



I am a firm believer in the importance of context. There is a context that justifies--in some cases actually calls for--almost any grammatically correct utterance we can come up with.

My point with "one says..." is not to justify its use but to express my view that it's grammatically acceptable. And, in fact, I do think there's value in determining if something is grammatically correct even if no one would ever use it.

But I promise you I'll never use it (in your presence).


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## duvija

But as long as it was used a few times in some obscure books, we should still know it, don't you believe? we may say 'don't use it in speech', but ...


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## duvija

I think it was a very helpful thread! why would you want it removed?


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## selmake

Hi, I have a doubt  referring to the "it anticipatorio" in the following case, can someone please tell me if its wrong only a teacher has marked it wrong and I have not got a clue why,I would very much appreciate it! Thankyou

When possible use pencil, pen and felt tip. If it were not possible, use a marker.


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## donbill

selmake said:


> Hi, I have a doubt  referring to the "it anticipatorio" in the following case, can someone please tell me if its wrong only a teacher has marked it wrong and I have not got a clue why,I would very much appreciate it! Thankyou
> 
> When possible use pencil, pen and felt tip. If it were not possible, use a marker.



I would rephrase it this way: _"When possible use pencil, pen and felt tip. If not possible, use a marker." _This is written in a very telegraphic style. Note that "it" is not used in the first sentence. Perhaps the second is written without "it" to match the structure of the first.

I believe it would be correct to say: _"When it is possible to do so, use pencil, pen or felt tip. If it is not possible, use a marker."

_I don't know what the rule is here, I'm just "thinking out loud" and saying what sounds acceptable to me.

Saludos


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## selmake

Thankyou Donbill!


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## blasita

Selmake, I think this is neither about the preparatory ´it´ nor passive.

I agree with Donbill´s idea of keeping the ´telegraphic style´ of the first sentence, and then saying ´If not possible´. This may well be the reason why your teacher marked it wrong (I´ve even thought that it was ´this´ instead of ´it´, but this sounds a bit stupid). However, I can´t see why it should be marked wrong; maybe just because it´s a problem of inconsistency?

Un saludo.


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## selmake

Yes, thankyou blasita I realized afterward that it does not have anything to do with this topic, though at first I thought it did. I thought that it did because my teacher has talked a lot about the preparatory "it" and that is the only thing that is underlined in this sentence...I will ask. Thankyou for all your help!


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## blasita

> Yes, thankyou blasita I realized afterward that it does not have anything to do with this topic, though at first I thought it did. I thought that it did because my teacher has talked a lot about the preparatory "it" and that is the only thing that is underlined in this sentence...I will ask. Thankyou for all your help!



No problem! (And it was donbill´s idea, actually ).

Selmake, it would be appreciated if, after asking your teacher, you could get back to us and tell us about it. Thank you.

Un saludo.


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## SevenDays

selmake said:


> Hi, I have a doubt  referring to the "it anticipatorio" in the following case, can someone please tell me if its wrong only a teacher has marked it wrong and I have not got a clue why,I would very much appreciate it! Thankyou
> 
> When possible use pencil, pen and felt tip. If it were not possible, use a marker.



Hello
Just to clarify some terminology.
"Anticipatory it" is also known as "anticipatory subject" because "it" refers to an element that follows which functions as the true or logical subject in that clause.  In your example _if it were not possible_, however, "it" is not "anticipatory" because nothing that follows in the clause can function as subject. By comparison, in _it is said that the police is efficient_, "it" is "anticipatory" because the true subject is _that the police is efficient_. All verbs need subjects. When no subject is available, "it" is used as subject; "it" fulfills that syntactic role. In your example, nothing can function as the subject of "were;" therefore, "it" becomes the subject. This type of "it" is known as "dummy" or "empty" subject. 

I suspect your teacher marked your example as wrong because there is a clash of moods. You start with a clause that uses the indicative to imply "possibility" (_when possible *use* pen_...), and then you switch to a clause that uses the subjunctive to imply "impossibility" (_if it *were* not_). If something is _possible_, stay with the indicative: _when possible *use* pen, pencil and felt-tip. If it *is* not possible, use marker._

Cheers


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## donbill

SevenDays said:


> Hello
> Just to clarify some terminology.
> "Anticipatory it" is also known as "anticipatory subject" because "it" refers to an element that follows which functions as the true or logical subject in that clause.  In your example _if it were not possible_, however, "it" is not "anticipatory" because nothing that follows in the clause can function as subject. By comparison, in _it is said that the police is efficient_, "it" is "anticipatory" because the true subject is _that the police is efficient_. All verbs need subjects. When no subject is available, "it" is used as subject; "it" fulfills that syntactic role. In your example, nothing can function as the subject of "were;" therefore, "it" becomes the subject. This type of "it" is known as "dummy" or "empty" subject.
> 
> I suspect your teacher marked your example as wrong because there is a clash of moods. You start with a clause that uses the indicative to imply "possibility" (_when possible *use* pen_...), and then you switch to a clause that uses the subjunctive to imply "impossibility" (_if it *were* not_). If something is _possible_, stay with the indicative: _when possible *use* pen, pencil and felt-tip. If it *is* not possible, use marker._
> 
> Cheers



Superb explanation, SevenDays! The sentence with *were* bothered me, so I changed it without knowing why. My rewording was actually a way to avoid the problem rather than address it directly.  I agree with you that the clash of moods is probably the reason the teacher marked the sentence.


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## selmake

Thankyou SevenDays for your explanation, I understand where the problem is now. Thankyou all for your help, when I have spoken to my teacher I will be in touch but it probably is what you have all said!


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## k-in-sc

Just to reiterate: The police is *are* efficient. It's the same with "policia"/"police" as with "la gente *es*"/"people *are*."


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