# Present Simple with today



## Dori1984

I'm a bit confused. There's a sentence in my textbook:

____ she (get) _____ a lot of e-mails today?

and, according to answer key, an answer should be: Does she get a lot of e-mails today? 

Is it a mistake?


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## Sprache

I cannot think of a context where this would ever be said.


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## Dori1984

Me neither and that's why I was so confused.


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## Uncle Jack

It would be understandable if "today" means "these days", in contrast with some former time. This is a common use of "today", but we would not usually use it like this in a question.


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## Dori1984

Thank you


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## nightowl666

I have seen similar sentences in a textbook, too. I think it is designed for the student to get familiar with present simple, that is, "today" is generally used with a simple present. You don't need to link it to real-use circumstances. Sometimes it doesn't make sense in real use.


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## dojibear

Dori1984 said:


> Does she get a lot of e-mails today?



In real life, no-one knows how many e-mails she gets until she gets them. We can't say "a few" or "a lot" until after she has gotten all the e-mails. This sentence is correct and normal:

_Did she get a lot of e-mails today?   _



nightowl666 said:


> I think it is designed for the student to get familiar with present simple, that is, "today" is generally used with a simple present.


I don't think it is. "Today" means "the current day". It is used with past and future verbs:

_I got to school late today.
I will have to stay after school today, as punishment._

In English, present simple tense verbs usually talk about recurring actions (habits), not single actions.

_She eats a lot of broccoli._  (last month, this month, next month)
_He rides a bicycle to work._ (every time he goes to work)

If you want to talk about a single event that is happening now, use a "present continuous" verb:

_He is walking to school.

_


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## Dori1984

I never teach students that today is used with Present Simple. In this particular situation I'd say a person who wrote TB made a mistake.


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## nightowl666

Dori1984 said:


> I never teach students that today is used with Present Simple. In this particular situation I'd say a person who wrote TB made a mistake.


As far as this sentence is concerned, maybe it is a mistake due to the carelessness of the author. But in elementary or lower intermediate level textbooks, such sentences may appear such as "I am happy today. " "I work hard today,"  which may be easier for lower level students to understand. I remember seeing such sentences in a textbook. When students are up at a higher level, the teacher will give them a new explanation.


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## Andygc

"I am happy today" is normal - it's stative. "I work hard today" is as abnormal as the sentence in the OP; why teach a usage that the learner will have to 'unlearn' in the near future?


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## nightowl666

Andygc said:


> "I am happy today" is normal - it's stative. "I work hard today" is as abnormal as the sentence in the OP; why teach a usage that the learner will have to 'unlearn' in the near future?


What about this: "*I phone her tonight.* " Is this correct? It's from a grammar book. If it is correct, why  is "I work hard today"not? I think they are in the same structure.

The OP's: Does she get a lot of e-mails today? In some particular context, it may convey the meaning: Will she get a lot of emails today? Is it a possible context?

But *"I phone her tonight. "* is an example sentence which I quoted from _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language _By Rodney Huddleston, p. 171.

It could be uncommon, but for the purpose of teaching or research, it may appear in a textbook. For EFL learners, the learning methodology is different from that while learning a native language. At a beginner's level,  students can only accept simple sentences with a simple syntax, and perhaps those sentences compatible with their native language in structure. When they are up at a higher level, then the teacher will give a further detailed explanation. This is common practice at least in China.


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## dojibear

nightowl666 said:


> What about this: "I phone her tonight. " Is this correct? It's from a grammar book.


No, it is not correct.


nightowl666 said:


> Does she get a lot of e-mails today? Based on what I learned,in some particular context, it may convey the meaning: Will she get a lot of emails today?


"Will" is correct. "Does" is not.


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## nightowl666

dojibear said:


> No, it is not correct.
> 
> "Will" is correct. "Does" is not.


Thank you, dojibear， But *"I phone her tonight. "* is an example sentence which I quoted from _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language _By Rodney Huddleston, p. 171.
It could be uncommon, but for the purpose of teaching or research, it may appear in a textbook.


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## dojibear

nightowl666 said:


> At a beginner's level, students can only accept simple sentences with a simple syntax, and perhaps those sentences compatible with their native language in structure.


This makes sense for teaching. 


nightowl666 said:


> But *"I phone her tonight. "* is an example sentence which I quoted from _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language _By Rodney Huddleston, p. 171.


I don't know this book. This sentence may be useful in teaching. But more advanced learners must learn not to use it.

Why? Because it isn't correct. 

English (unlike Mandarin) is very strict about past/present/future. If you will phone her later than now, you must say "I will phone her". You can't say "I phone her". If your phone call with her has ended, say "I phoned her." You can't say "I phone her."


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## Cagey

dojibear and I differ on this. 

People do use the present simple to refer to an event in the future in some contexts but not in others. One context in which it is used is when they are talking about a scheduled or planned event. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with it when the context makes clear that they are talking about the future. 

Here are a few threads in which people express different opinions on whether or not the present simple is acceptable when referring to the future in specific contexts.  
present simple for future events​future meaning: simple present or present continuous?​it takes place  [present simple for future?]​Simple present tense for future?​​You can find more threads by searching for "present simple future".  It will return many threads with those words in the title. It will take patience to go through them to find the threads that are relevant.


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## Yichen

> Does she get a lot of e-mails today?





> _Did she get a lot of e-mails today?  _



I think the "Does" one is a historic present version of the "Did".
I feel it sounds correct?


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## natkretep

dojibear said:


> English (unlike Mandarin) is very strict about past/present/future. If you will phone her later than now, you must say "I will phone her". You can't say "I phone her". If your phone call with her has ended, say "I phoned her." You can't say "I phone her."


I think about the only situation where you use the simple present for actions, apart from general truths, is you are describing something as it happens before your eyes, for instance in sports commentaries. Or if you tell a story and you dramatically put it in the present tense to make it sound more immediate. 'I walk into the room. Suddenly the cat jumps at me!'


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## dojibear

Cagey is correct in post #15. I forgot about context.  For example, this sounds correct: 

_She is too busy at work to talk to me today. I phone her tonight._

This means that we plan for me to phone her tonight. So the meaning is future.

In my previous comments I assume the wrong context. My mistake. That is often a problem.


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## dojibear

_Does she get a lot of e-mails?
Does she get a lot of e-mails each day?
Does she get a lot of e-mails on weekends?
Does she get a lot of e-mails on Fridays?_

Those are fine. They all talk about repeated actions (many days, not just one day).


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## Andygc

dojibear said:


> For example, this sounds correct:
> 
> _She is too busy at work to talk to me today. I phone her tonight._
> 
> This means that we plan for me to phone her tonight. So the meaning is future.


It does not sound correct to me. It sounds completely wrong and I would be very surprised to hear or read it unless it was said by somebody who was an English learner. "... I will phone her tonight ..."


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## DonnyB

nightowl666 said:


> But *"I phone her tonight. "* is an example sentence which I quoted from _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language _By Rodney Huddleston, p. 171.
> It could be uncommon, but for the purpose of teaching or research, it may appear in a textbook.


All sorts of things appear in textbooks as examples of what is or isn't correct in various situations.  All I will say is that I can't think of a possible scenario in which a native speaker would say "I phone her tonight".


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## Yichen

> I phone her tonight.


I feel it is not impossible.
Maybe "tonight" is one of the nights that come with the identical calendar number. 
In other words, I phone her regularly on such a night.
(but I am not sure.)


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## Andygc

We don't have a concept of repeated "tonights" to describe a habitual action.
I phone her on Fridays.   
I phone her Fridays. (but not normally in BE)


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## Wordy McWordface

Yichen said:


> I feel it is not impossible.
> Maybe "tonight" is one of the nights that come with the identical calendar number.
> In other words, I phone her regularly on such a night.
> (but I am not sure.)


No. 'Tonight', like 'tomorrow' or 'yesterday', can only refer to day when we are speaking. It cannot be habitual. If you're talking about 'calendar numbers', you'd say something like "I phone her during the evening on the 1st of every month". 

The only situation in which I can imagine saying "I phone her tonight" is if it's one of several steps within some kind or schedule or complex plan. For example:

_"Now, listen. This is what we do, OK? I phone her tonight. You email her tomorrow morning. Bugsy calls round at her place in the afternoon. Then...... "_

But this is hardly something which you would teach beginners!


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## Yichen

Wordy McWordface said:


> No. 'Tonight', like 'tomorrow' or 'yesterday', can only refer to day when we are speaking. It cannot be habitual. If you're talking about 'calendar numbers', you'd say something like "I phone her during the evening on the 1st of every month".
> The only situation in which I can imagine saying "I phone her tonight" is if it's one of several steps within some kind or schedule or complex plan. For example:
> _"Now, listen. This is what we do, OK? I phone her tonight. You email her tomorrow morning. Bugsy calls round at her place in the afternoon. Then...... "_
> But this is hardly something which you would teach beginners!


Yes. It's the so-called _Imperative_ _Sentence._
But should “Bugsy calls round... " be  “Bugsy call round... "?

Thank you.


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## Kenny Chang

nightowl666 said:


> What about this: "*I phone her tonight.* " Is this correct? It's from a grammar book. If it is correct, why  is "I work hard today"not? I think they are in the same structure.
> 
> The OP's: Does she get a lot of e-mails today? In some particular context, it may convey the meaning: Will she get a lot of emails today? Is it a possible context?
> 
> But *"I phone her tonight. "* is an example sentence which I quoted from _The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language _By Rodney Huddleston, p. 171.
> 
> It could be uncommon, but for the purpose of teaching or research, it may appear in a textbook. For EFL learners, the learning methodology is different from that while learning a native language. At a beginner's level,  students can only accept simple sentences with a simple syntax, and perhaps those sentences compatible with their native language in structure. When they are up at a higher level, then the teacher will give a further detailed explanation. This is common practice at least in China.


Same here in Taiwan. We learn from the simple present to the simple past, and then to the simple future. (And then the progressive, the perfect, the perfect progressive.) So sometimes it is hard to make up a context without using the past tense or future tense, or other aspects. So the contexts in the textbooks (or even made up by the teachers) are usually not natural. But for the beginning learners, they are really helpful. When they go to a higher level later on, they will realize there's more usages than what they've learned before.

English is really a complicated language, so we learn grammar points from the easiest concept.
An example (not related to the tense):
The way I teach my students to distinguish *when* and *while* is that *when* is followed by a past tense verb but while is followed by a progressive verb:

I was sleeping *when* the earthquake hit last night.
*While* I was sleeping last night, the earthquake hit.

But later on they will know *when* can also be followed by a progressive verb.


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## DonnyB

Kenny Chang said:


> Same here in Taiwan. We learn from the simple present to the simple past, and then to the simple future. (And then the progressive, the perfect, the perfect progressive.) So sometimes it is hard to make up a context without using the past tense or future tense, or other aspects. So the contexts in the textbooks (or even made up by the teachers) are usually not natural. But for the beginning learners, they are really helpful. When they go to a higher level later on, they will realize there's more usages than what they've learned before.


The same thing happens in reverse when we learn another language: you normally start off with just the present tense, then you learn the past or perfect tense and then the future tense and so on.  So inevitably the first sentences you practise with are all going to sound a bit "wooden" until you can add a bit of variety.  English is a bit unusual in having all these continuous tenses which complicate matters somewhat, but the key aim is (or should be) to learn to use the tenses _correctly_, and practising with examples which are not correct, or only correct in limited contrived contexts is in my opinion just asking for trouble further down the line when you effectively have to 'unlearn' it.


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## velisarius

_I phone her tonight.

The non-progressive suggests a schedule or plan: perhaps I regularly phone her on the first Sunday in the month, or perhaps the call is part of some larger plan or arrangement _(CGEL)

_I'm phoning her tonight. _

This form has greater scope. It may suggest a pre-arranged plan, (as with the simple present above). It may also be used if the speaker simply wants to announce their intention.


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## Hulalessar

It would be helpful to know what grammar points the lesson containing the exercise covers.

The only context in which "Does she get a lot of e-mails today?" could be right is if "today" means "these days", though it is slightly strained.


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## natkretep

Yichen said:


> Yes. It's the so-called _Imperative_ _Sentence._
> But should “Bugsy calls round... " be  “Bugsy call round... "?
> 
> Thank you.


No, the original is correct. It's not the imperative. It's the simple present (_Bugsy calls round_), used to describe a planned course of actions.


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## nightowl666

Yichen said:


> Yes. It's the so-called _Imperative_ _Sentence._
> But should “Bugsy calls round... " be  “Bugsy call round... "?
> 
> Thank you.


But I remember seeing this kind of sentence: Important person *sit* here. Maybe in_ Longman English Grammar_ by A. G. Alexander.


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## DonnyB

nightowl666 said:


> But I remember seeing this kind of sentence: Important person *sit* here. Maybe in_ Longman English Grammar_ by A. G. Alexander.


I can't be sure without seeing the context (assuming there is some) but that looks to me like it's an imperative.


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## nightowl666

DonnyB said:


> I can't be sure without seeing the context (assuming there is some) but that looks to me like it's an imperative.


Yes, DonnyB, it's an imperative.


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## natkretep

You are discussing Wordy's sentence: '_Now, listen. This is what we do, OK? I phone her tonight. You email her tomorrow morning. Bugsy calls round at her place in the afternoon. Then......'_

The speaker isn't talking to Bugsy. It's not the imperative. The speaker is planning what will happen. It would be the imperative if I'm telling people to do things, like 'Hullo, John and Mary. John, sit on my right and Mary, sit on my left.'


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## Yichen

So “_I phone her tonight._” can be read both ways:
1. one of the scheduled tasks on a list; (and suppose someone is reading the list.)
2. imperative usage; (and suppose someone is assigning tasks.)

But still, I am confused about why people regard "Does she get a lot of e-mails today?" as a wrong one.
I agree it is not a normally used one, because we rarely use the simple present to describe a single or specific action.

However, when it comes to the historical present, it is another story:
In 1866, a terrible sea creature is seen by several ships. Biologist Professor Pierre Aronnax and his servant，Conseil, join a ship to find and kill the creature. (This sentence comes from a textbook currently used in China senior high schools.)

According to the above model, I think it won't be impossible for us to get:
Yesterday, she gets a lot of e-mails.
This morning, she gets a lot of e-mails.
Today, she gets a lot of e-mails.

They are all possible, aren't they? 


Thank you.


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## Uncle Jack

Yichen said:


> So “_I phone her tonight._” can be read both ways:
> 1. one of the scheduled tasks on a list; (and suppose someone is reading the list.)
> 2. imperative usage; (and suppose someone is assigning tasks.)


"I phone" cannot be an imperative.


Yichen said:


> But still, I am confused about why people regard "Does she get a lot of e-mails today?" as a wrong one.


How can you possibly know? If she has already received them, then you need the past tense or the present perfect. If she hasn't yet received them, then how can the question be answered? Without "today", it would mean "in general", and then it would be fine, but "today" usually refers to this particular day, and it tends to be broken down into:

The day up to now - use the past tense, or maybe the present perfect:
"Did she get a lot of emails today?" This question only makes sense if the period for getting emails is now over, more or less.
The present - use the present continuous:
"Is she getting a lot of emails today?" In this case (but not always) this is a good way of asking about the day in general, so far as it is possible to tell.
The future - use the future tense:
"Will she be getting a lot of emails today (do you think)?



Yichen said:


> However, when it comes to the historical present, it is another story:
> In 1866, a terrible sea creature is seen by several ships. Biologist Professor Pierre Aronnax and his servant，Conseil, join a ship to find and kill the creature. (This sentence comes from a textbook currently used in China senior high schools.)
> 
> According to the above model, I think it won't be impossible for us to get:
> Yesterday, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> This morning, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> Today, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> 
> They are all possible, aren't they?


No. The historical present can be used for a situation in the past, in which case "today" could refer to some day in the past. However, the historical present tense does not mean that the present tense is used for everything, so if you wanted to refer to "yesterday" (the day before the current day in your narrative set in the past), you would use the past tense.

The reason for using the historical present is to give greater immediacy to a story. It belongs to storytelling, not talking about how many emails a person receives.


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## Yichen

Thank you all, guys.

A: Will the two we invited come tonight ? (to play Majiong with us)
B: If they don't come, we just cancel the plan and go have Beijing Duck then.
A: OK, but let's say I phone them later and you make a reservation.

Would the tenses be acceptable here?


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## natkretep

You're talking about the simple present in 'we just cancel', aren't you? Yes, that's fine for me.

(For me though, it's always Peking duck, never Beijing duck.)


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## Andygc

Although there's no problem there, that has nothing to do with using the simple present with "today".


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## Thomas Tompion

_Today_ can mean 'on this day' - ie. on Mondays or Tuesdays or whatever day it is.

_I work hard today_ can mean_ I usually work hard on Mondays_ (today is Monday).
_I phone her tonight_ can mean_ I usually phone her on Monday evenings._

For me both are entirely acceptable, normal, usage.


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## Wordy McWordface

Thomas Tompion said:


> _Today_ can mean 'on this day' - ie. on Mondays or Tuesdays or whatever day it is.
> 
> _I work hard today_ can mean_ I usually work hard on Mondays_ (today is Monday).
> _I phone her tonight_ can mean_ I usually phone her on Monday evenings._
> 
> For me both are entirely acceptable, normal, usage.


Both of those seem unlikely to me.


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## Uncle Jack

Well I never, Thomas. Possibly, in the right context, I might use "today" to mean on Mondays in general. However, even in expressions like "today is my washing day", I am talking just about today, and not Mondays in general, and I would still say "today is my washing day" if I did my washing on every tenth day. I cannot possibly imagine saying either of your sentences.


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## Thomas Tompion

Uncle Jack said:


> Well I never, Thomas. Possibly, in the right context, I might use "today" to mean on Mondays in general. However, even in expressions like "today is my washing day", I am talking just about today, and not Mondays in general, and I would still say "today is my washing day" if I did my washing on every tenth day. I cannot possibly imagine saying either of your sentences.


As happens occasionally with members on the forum, we seem to speak a different language.

I didn't regard my post, #40, as at all contentious.

_Today_ can also mean _These days_.

What about these, from the many examples in the British Corpus?

_Today there is still little local employment except in the' homelands' administrations.  _Education in the developing world. Graham-Brown, Sarah. Harlow: Longman Group UK Ltd, 1991

_'' Would you mind if I go over to Kilburn? I'm not very good company today." _  Freelance death. Taylor, Andrew. London:

We mustn't forget the enormous flexibility of the English language.

There's also the point that the simple present can have future meaning.

_The LSO perform at the Albert Hall_ _today_ is perfectly normal English.


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## Thomas Tompion

Dori1984 said:


> I'm a bit confused. There's a sentence in my textbook:
> 
> ____ she (get) _____ a lot of e-mails today?
> 
> and, according to answer key, an answer should be: Does she get a lot of e-mails today?
> 
> Is it a mistake?


Not for me.

It means _Does she get a lot of emails on this day_ (Monday, Tuesday, or whatever day it is)?

Whether the author of the textbook thought it meant that is another question.


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## Huyen Ben Grace

Dori1984 said:


> I'm a bit confused. There's a sentence in my textbook:
> 
> ____ she (get) _____ a lot of e-mails today?
> 
> and, according to answer key, an answer should be: Does she get a lot of e-mails today?
> 
> Is it a mistake?


I have never seen an example like this. I only see "today" used in the present simple when I want to talk about plans, schedules of trains, planes,..
E.g.:
The plane takes off at 6:00pm today. (tonight).
The boat leaves at 10am today.
I leave by the 2pm train this afternoon.


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## Yichen

Here in China is afternoon this moment. 
I bought a book this morning.
I bought a book today.

The time span of "today" is flexbile.


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## Hulalessar

Thomas Tompion said:


> It means _Does she get a lot of emails on this day_ (Monday, Tuesday, or whatever day it is)?


It does not for me and I am also from the South of England.The examples you give in post 43 are not on a par. "Today" in this context has to mean "in the course of this present day". The question cannot be put using "does she get" because the day is not over. "Is she getting" is fine.


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## Thomas Tompion

Hulalessar said:


> The question cannot be put using "does she get" because the day is not over.[...]


Can you be saying that we don't say _Does she get many letters on a Tuesday?_ because this Tuesday is not over?

In a typical office the post follows patterns.

Have you looked at the British Corpus?  There are more than 100 pages of examples.


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## Hulalessar

Thomas Tompion said:


> Can you be saying that we don't say _Does she get many letters on a Tuesday?_ because this Tuesday is not over?


Not at all. The point is that if it is Tuesday "today" does not mean "Tuesday" or "Tuesdays", but just "the day we are at now". If you look at someone's emails on a Tuesday and see lots of them you will ask "Do you get a lot of emails on a Tuesday?"


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## Uncle Jack

Thomas Tompion said:


> _Today_ can also mean _These days_.


Only when being used to contrast with some former time, as I said in post #4. Without some former time having previously been mentioned, I don't think "today" on its own is used to mean "these days", although it might be used with this meaning as a modifier without any previous mention of a former time ("People today are living longer than ever before").


Thomas Tompion said:


> _Today there is still little local employment except in the' homelands' administrations. _Education in the developing world. Graham-Brown, Sarah. Harlow: Longman Group UK Ltd, 1991


I would take there to be some previous mention of a former time. Doing a websearch, I see that the previous sentence is "The original goal of South Africa's bantustan policy was to create segregated reserves of cheap labour for factories, farms and services in the adjoining white areas," so your sentence about today contrasts with the original goal at some earlier time.



Thomas Tompion said:


> _'' Would you mind if I go over to Kilburn? I'm not very good company today." _ Freelance death. Taylor, Andrew. London:


"Today" appears to mean this day, and I might expect the person to feel better tomorrow.



Yichen said:


> The time span of "today" is flexbile.


Not really. Your sentences are fine, but "today" is no more flexible than "this morning". It is just longer. In different situations, "today" can have a wider range of meanings than "this morning", but that is not the case in your sentences.


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## Thomas Tompion

Thanks for your response to the examples, Uncle Jack.

Have you had a look at the 25,000 examples in the British Corpus?

I think you would take issue with a lot of them.


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## Yichen

Does this conversation make sense?

A: Father will be here tomorrow.
B: Oh, I thought that he was coming today.
C: But he is already at the door.
A: Oh my god. _Does he bring many candies to us today?_

Thank you.


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## DonnyB

Yichen said:


> Does this conversation make sense?
> 
> A: Father will be here tomorrow.
> B: Oh, I thought that he was coming today.
> C: But he is already at the door.
> A: Oh my god. _Does he bring many candies to us today?_
> 
> Thank you.


That doesn't work for me, no.  I'd have said "Has he brought us..." or "Is he bringing us...".


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## Thomas Tompion

Yichen said:


> Does this conversation make sense?[...]


A lot depends on what you mean by sense.

In the context of the thread the key issue is whether or not _Does he bring many candies to us today?_ can mean_ Is this a day when he brings many candies to us?_

I've said I think it's not out of the question, Yichen, but you should take note of the group which disagrees with me.  There are clearly people who think it sounds very strange, to say the least.

It's much harder in a flexible language like English to argue that something cannot be said than that it could possibly be acceptable.


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## Keith Bradford

Yichen said:


> ...
> Yesterday, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> This morning, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> Today, she gets a lot of e-mails.
> 
> They are all possible, aren't they? ...


Possible, yes.  Probable, no.  Highly improbable, certainly.


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## Yichen

Thank you all guys.
Now one more conversation:

Here are some pictures. Now let's look at the first one:
We know, the man receives many gifts every Tuesday.
And_ today, as usual, he receives a lot of gifts again._ 

What about this conversation? Does it make sense?

Thank you, again.


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## Uncle Jack

Yichen said:


> Now one more conversation:
> 
> Here are some pictures. Now let's look at the first one:
> We know, the man receives many gifts every Tuesday.
> And_ today, as usual, he receives a lot of gifts again._
> 
> What about this conversation? Does it make sense?
> 
> Thank you, again.


This probably works, particularly if it is said at the moment today's gifts are being recieved. One of the uses of the simple present tense is to indicate repetition, and this is also the function of "again", so they do go together. However, if the gifts have already been received, then I would be far more likely to use the present perfect than the simple present tense.


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## Keith Bradford

It makes sense entirely because of the words "every Tuesday".  This is not a present tense about today alone, but about a regular weekly occurrence.


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## Thomas Tompion

Here are two examples from the British Corpus - absolutely standard English, in my view:

_It's all right,' Hari said quickly,' it's most likely the rent man, he comes today.'_  The shoemaker's daughter. Gower, Iris. London: Corgi Books, 1992
_Tom comes today. Perhaps he's the person to talk to her. _ A private arrangement. Darcy, Lilian. Richmond, Surrey: Mills & Boon, 1993


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