# pièce rapportée



## geve

Salut à toi, forum !

En langage familier, une pièce rapportée, c'est une personne "ajoutée" à une famille (ou par extension, un groupe), généralement la compagne ou le compagnon d'un membre du groupe. C'est une pièce rapportée parce qu'elle ne faisait pas partie du groupe d'origine, elle n'a pas de lien du sang si l'on parle d'une famille.
Une définition ici :


> *pièce rapportée*
> membre de la famille par alliance
> _Elle est ce qu'on appelle commmunément une "pièce rapportée", c'est à dire liée non par le sang mais par le mariage_


Y a-t-il une expression similaire en anglais ?

Merci


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## Emmski

Hello,

As far as I know there isnt really a familar approximation of 'pièce rapportée', though perhaps someone else will know of one. 

However, in English we use the term 'in-law' to describe someone who has joined the family through marriage. For example -

The wife of my brother = my sister in-law

The wife of my son = my daughter in-law

The father of my husband = my father in-law 

....and so on

In general terms, the parents of your spouse are called 'the in-laws', and as there is an old joke that 'the in-laws' are awful people who will make your life hell (!), the term can be used in a pejorative sense. But not always...it's certainly not how I use it, as I like mine!

Bonne chance,

E


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## Tresley

Hello Geve,

We have a few expressions in English, but I don't think any fit exactly.

There is someone who is "a good friend of the family". This means that all the family know them and that when the family "talks together" that they are usually well trusted.

There is the expression "almost like family" which means the same as above.

We have the expression " XXX [i.e. _name_] is an adopted member of our family". Not a blood relative, but someone who is accepted as being part of the family because he/she has been known for a long long time.

My daughters have an "adopted" auntie (aunt). My wife and I have known this person for a long long time and my daughters call her "auntie". She is a very good friend and "could be related" because we have known her for so long. We have been on holiday together and talk very frankly about our family with her (as she does with us).

Is this what you mean?


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## Tresley

If you simply mean "by marriage", then we just say "the in-laws" [FULL STOP!].

I hope this helps.


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## geve

Thank you both!
Interesting expressions indeed... though not exactly the same I'm afraid. 

In-laws would be what a group of people represents to one person; whereas I'm looking for a word that would qualify what one person is to a group. Or could a family talk about in-laws to mean the partners of the "original" members of the family?

Tresley, I understand the expressions you list as a way to acknowledge the importance that an "outsider" represents for a family. If "pièce rapportée" conveys any connotation it would rather be a negative one - ie., pointing out that "(s)he's not a true member of the family".


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## Tresley

geve said:


> If "pièce rapportée" conveys any connotation it would rather be a negative one - ie., pointing out that "(s)he's not a true member of the family".


 
Ah! Oh! Um! Let me think, now that you have said that!

Erm...

"linked not by blood, but by marriage" (negative expression?)"

Erm...

"The in-laws from hell"?

I really don't know.... sorry.


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## Tresley

J'essaie de comprendre, et j'ai pensé que j'ai compris. Mais, evidement non!

Peut-être "tagger-on"?


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## Tresley

On utilise l'expression "tagger-on" pour décrire quelqu'un qui s'ajoute à un groupe de son propre volonté.  Cela peut aussi décrire quelqu'un que les autres membres du groupe ne souhaitent pas accueillir parmi leur présence!


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## geve

Tresley said:


> On utilise l'expression "tagger-on" pour décrire quelqu'un qui s'ajoute à un groupe de son propre volonté. Cela peut aussi décrire quelqu'un que les autres membres du groupe ne souhaitent pas accueillir parmi leur présence!


Merci de tes efforts Tresley!  ça semble bien correspondre. Est-ce que ça vient du game of tag?

So could you imagine for instance a rather stiff old lady uttering with disdain about her daughter-in-law "Who does she think she is, mingling in the family business as she did? She's just a tagger-on!"


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## RocketGirl

geve said:


> So could you imagine for instance a rather stiff old lady uttering with disdain about her daughter-in-law "Who does she think she is, mingling in the family business as she did? She's just a tagger-on!"


 
Almost there geve.  It's the word "mingling" that doesn't really fit in my opinion.  I'd rather say "..butting in on family business like that?" or more delicately "...involving herself in the family business like that?"

FYI, here in Canada you'll never hear the term "tagger-on", although it would be understood.  We say "tag along" - "she's such a tag-along"


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## geve

RocketGirl said:


> Almost there geve. It's the word "mingling" that doesn't really fit in my opinion. I'd rather say "..butting in on family business like that?" or more delicately "...involving herself in the family business like that?"


Thank you RocketGirl.  I was just trying to put "tagger-on" in a sentence to see if it could work, but I'm glad I learnt "butting in"!
Come to think of it - and because I'm a perfectionist - I think the old lady would actually say "She's but a tagger-on"....


RocketGirl said:


> FYI, here in Canada you'll never hear the term "tagger-on", although it would be understood. We say "tag along" - "she's such a tag-along"


So my old lady would use "tag-along" if she were Canadian - I take good note, thanks!


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## catay

We also use the expression "fifth wheel" an unneccessary or unwanted member of a group, someone who doesn't fit in. This is used in a broad sense, not specifically to a family situation, but it might work in the context you have given.


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## RocketGirl

catay said:


> We also use the expression "fifth wheel" an unneccessary or unwanted member of a group, someone who doesn't fit in. This is used in a broad sense, not specifically to a family situation, but it might work in the context you have given.


 
That's the one that was on the tip of my tongue catay. Not sure if it's a general English term, or just Canadian. 

To those of you that don't know this idiom, imagine a vehicle with 5 wheels instead of 4. Definitely one too many... it's awkward and crowded and just generally unnecessary...


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## catay

> That's the one that was on the tip of my tongue catay. Not sure if it's a general English term, or just Canadian.


I checked out one website on idiomatic expressions and it looks like it is used in the US as well.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/f.html


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## RocketGirl

catay said:


> I checked out one website on idiomatic expressions and it looks like it is used in the US as well.
> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/f.html


 
US maybe... but I'm _assuming_ that being European, geve likely wants BE


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## catay

> US maybe... but I'm _assuming_ that being European, geve likely wants BE


Good point...audience also dictates usage.


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## geve

RocketGirl said:


> US maybe... but I'm _assuming_ that being European, geve likely wants BE


Well... I don't know really, the word came up in a discussion yesterday and out of pure curiosity I wondered if there was a term in English for that... So I'll gladly take any term in BE, CE, AmE, AuE or any other E! 

"Fifth wheel" reminds me strongly of the French expression... _la cinquième roue du carrosse_.  But I have the feeling that it's more negative that "pièce rapportée" - it insists more on the fact that the person is a nuisance. But it could certainly work in some contexts where "pièce rapportée" is used!


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## catay

Oui, selon la définition que vous a donnée la tournure "fifth wheel" a un sens plus péjoratif que celui de "pièce rapportée."


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## catay

> Fifth wheel" reminds me strongly of the French expression... _la cinquième roue du carrosse_.


"

Merci d'avoir donné un bon équivalent en français.


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## geve

Oh but wait! I just searched for "cinquième roue" to see if it had been covered here already, and I found this thread: pièces rapportées 
I had searched the forum before posting this thread, but in the singular, which is why I hadn't found it...

Someone in this thread (from US) suggested _*hangers-on*_, and someone else (from UK) *spare parts*.The latter sounds like the exact equivalent of the French term - is that used at all apart from the description of a machine (where the French "pièce rapportée" also applies), could it work here?


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## catay

> Someone in this thread (from US) suggested _*hangers-on*_, and someone else (from UK) *spare parts*.The latter sounds like the exact equivalent of the French term - is that used at all apart from the description of a machine


 
"Hangers-on" is familiar, but, personally, I haven't heard "spare parts"  used in this context, other than, as you say, in a description of a machine. Perhaps someone from the UK could comment on this one.


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## Qcumber

a spare part = *une pièce de rechange* (e.g. automotive industry)
It cannot translate *une pièce rapportée*.
I don't think there is any English term for it. You'll have to use some periphrastic explanation depending on the context as variously suggested above.
One that comes to my mind: ... and all those in-laws brought into the bargain.


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## geve

Qcumber said:


> a spare part = *une pièce de rechange* (e.g. automotive industry)
> It cannot translate *une pièce rapportée*.


Well it can, when _pièce rapportée_ is used in a technical context to mean a piece that was added to some machine.  Ok, understood - it can't work here. 

Thank you all.


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## Tresley

After reading other people's answers, I'm not sure that we have a true phrase for this exactly.

A 'tag-along' I would have understood to mean what I know as a 'tagger-on', although 'a tag-along' isn't used in the UK.
I didn't know what 'the fifth wheel" meant until I read the explanation here.
'Spare part' is used in the same way as 'the fifth wheel' is used in Canada.
For example, someone might feel like a 'spare part' if they went out with a courting couple. We use the word 'gooseberry' in this sense too.

'Spare part' could also be used in situations where someone feels out of place or useless. "I don't have a proper role at work anymore, I feel like a spare part".

I don't think that 'hanger-on' is right for use concerning family matters.

I'm sorry Geve, but I don't think any of the suggestions fit exactly what you are looking for. Not concerning family matters anyway.

We do have expressions like:

"John's wife is meddling in family matters where she is not wanted".
"Angela's husband is sticking his nose into our family affairs again".
"Joe's wife is interfering in our family again".

This is the best I can offer. I hope it helps.


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## geve

Thank you Tresley for all these clarifications! You and Qcumber seem to have different uses of "spare part" then.


Tresley said:


> I'm sorry Geve, but I don't think any of the suggestions fit exactly what you are looking for. Not concerning family matters anyway.


Oh well, I can live with periphrases if there's no matching expression. It's good enough that we reached this conclusion!  (and I learnt quite a few expressions in the process, so I'm all happy and thankful as usual!)


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## Tresley

Hi Geve,

I don't think using 'spare part' in the contexts I just quoted for you would be considered an unusual expression.  I don't know if it is used just in my part of the UK.  We'll have to wait and see what people from other parts of the UK have to say.


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## lavalier

While I am years late to this conversation, I want to caution anglophones -- "pièce rapportée, in my experience as an American living 20 years in France, is NOT a simple synonym, but a hurtful insult.  I have heard multiple French people use this phrase (thus, I learned it as an adult in the same way French children would use it, by actual usage by a French person.) Each time, the eyes of the user widened and the tone was one of shock and hurt, as if:  "Can you imagine?  They called me a "pièce rapportée!!"   By usage, I gathered that the family, especially a wealthy "clan," had used the phrase to characterize an "interloper" -- perhaps a newly wed not "digne" enough to be considered a "real" memer of the "family."  I don't pretend to be an expert at languages, but perhaps this comes from the meaning of "pièce" as a coin, and the meaning of "rapportée" as imported -- as if a foreign coin hasn't any worth.  I would not have posted this had I not heard the term used multiple times, by people who didn't know each other, as an insult.


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## Kecha

geve said:


> Well it can, when _pièce rapportée_ is used in a technical context to mean a piece that was added to some machine.





lavalier said:


> I don't pretend to be an expert at languages, but perhaps this comes from the meaning of "pièce" as a coin, and the meaning of "rapportée" as imported -- as if a foreign coin hasn't any worth.



"pièce rapportée" is not an image coming from mechanical parts or from coins.

It's an image coming from sewing. 

Imagine the family is a coat, and over the years pieces of fabric have been added to it (by marriage). Maybe they stand out, or maybe they blend in (and cover up a hole  ).

"Pièces rapportées" is often understood as being pejorative, and it often is, but that is not the initial meaning. It only means "parent par alliance" by opposition to blood relations.

I might say "J'ai 5 cousins. Avec les pièces rapportées, cela fera 10 personnes à table". I'm not trying to be offensive. Just stating that although we will be 10, not all of those are related to me _by blood_.

Context and tone will say what is meant. But don't jump to the conclusiont that the person is trying to be hurtful.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Salut,

Il est quand même rare que ladite "pièce rapportée" entendant fortuitement qu'elle est qualifiée ainsi ne soit pas vexée... 
Si on le lui dit bien en face et sur le ton de la plaisanterie, là, pas de problème elle pourra le prendre avec humour (enfin, si elle en a ! ). On pourra aussi entendre une belle-sœur ou un beau-frère se traiter lui-même de "pièce rapportée" pour rigoler ("Je ne suis qu'une pièce rapportée après tout !"). Le contexte est important donc, comme l'a bien rappelé Kecha.
Je vous remets ici la définition du TLFi :


			
				TLFi said:
			
		

> [En parlant d'une pers.] Fam. ou péj. Étranger naturalisé français; dans une famille, parent, allié originaire ou non d'une autre région ou d'une autre classe sociale et souvent mal accepté. Dans certaines familles, on appelle « pièces rapportées » les beaux-frères ou les belles-sœurs (Lar. Lang. fr.).


Dans ce billet de blog, on conseille, pour ne vexer personne, d'utiliser "être une valeur ajoutée" à la place d'"être une pièce rapportée".


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## imogen85

Hangers-on?


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