# within the machine



## mrca506

How could I translate the phrase "within the machine" to greek? I need both the text in greek alphabet and in latin alphabet. Thanks.

Some background: from Greek theatre 'apo mechanes theos' or something similar, means 'God from the machine' to refer to a semi-magical or unexplainable resolution of a conflict, impersonated by God's character and lifted up by a device or 'machine' such as a crane.

I'm looking for a way to express a nearly inverse concept. It would be something like: obtaining a plausible and very rational explanation for a given solution utilizing a machine or a device (most likely a computer). So I thought of the power "within the machine".


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## elineo

Si quieres decir que la máquina te da la solución, por ejemplo solución por la máqina, (usándola), puedes decirlo en griego así: "diá tis mijanís" (formal) δια της μηχανής o "me ti mijaní" με τη μηχανή.


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## makot

Hi!

If you want to use an archaic expression (to make it sound and read more like 'apo michanis theos') you could say ο εν τη μηχανή θεός (o en ti michani theos), which is the litteral translation of 'God *within* the machine'. (Sorry, I have no ancient Greek accents on my keyboard - and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use them...) 

"diá tis mijanís" δια της μηχανής (as ellineo suggests) can also translate as "through/by means of the machine". It's up to you to decide which of the two nuances best render your original concept.

If, on the other hand, you're looking for something more contemporary, in modern Greek I think we'd say ο Θεός μέσα στη μηχανή - o theos mesa sti michani - (once again, God inside the machine). It sounds a bit strange at first, but in the proper context I think it could work just fine...


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## mrca506

elineo said:


> Si quieres decir que la máquina te da la solución, por ejemplo solución por la máqina, (usándola), puedes decirlo en griego así: "diá tis mijanís" (formal) δια της μηχανής o "me ti mijaní" με τη μηχανή.



Gracias 'Elineo'. Lo que busco es una frase que experese más el encontrar una solución a través de la máquina, no sólo usándola como herramienta, sino manipulando sus mecanismos internos para maximizar el control. Me parece que se aproxima más la traducción de 'makot', no?


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## mrca506

I forgot to point that out 'makot'. I am indeed looking for an archaic expression. I think your suggestion works for me. But aside from being in ancient greek, does it make sense? I mean does it sound right? And can it be used without subject? e.g. just "εν τη μηχανή".  To clarify, I am looking for an expression that eliminates the unexplainable element (God), so I don't know if the phrase suggested works without it.

One last thing, I saw this 'apo michanis theos' written elsewhere but with "e" 's instead. (mechanes) Why could this be? (asuming it came from an informed source).


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## ireney

Hi there, can you give us the phrase "within the machine" in  context? An example of its usage? 
"Mechanes" has to do with the transliteration from Greek and with pronunciation of ancient Greek, a matter off topic for this discussion.


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## makot

Well, if you write down *ο *εν τη μηχανή *θεός *everyone will know what you're hinting at. But if you change the subject altogether and just use εν τη μηχανή, I'm not so sure it will work. It depends on the subject - and, of course, context - ireney is right on that...


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## mrca506

"A new type of knowledge can emerge by establishing a symbiotic relationship with technology. A new design process can derive from solutions found *through* the machine, not merely by operating _it_ as a tool but by manipulating and transforming its internal mechanisms, fostering results that emerge from within the machine." 

I hope the context works but I actually first intend to use it without any context. I am looking for a concept, more like a title, a single phrase that can embody the whole idea.

Maybe it is more like '*inside* the machine'. 

Thank you all for your responses by the way.


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## makot

Ok, I think I've got it now:
If you want to connote a connection to "apo mechanes theos", then you could say...
(...) Μια νέα σχεδιαστική λύση μπορεί να προκύψει από "δια της μηχανής" λύσεις (...) αποτελέσματα που προκύπτουν από μέσα από την ίδια τη μηχανή.
ΠΡΟΣΟΧΗ 
Keep the brackets, to make it even more visible that this is a "jeu de mots" (I have forgotten how that is called in English, sorry...), and then translate in full, simple, modern Greek, to avoid any misunderstandings.
As you probably noticed, I didn't trouble myself much over the best way to translate the context, my suggestion simply aimed at providing context...
Best of luck with the rest of your text!


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