# je lui ai dit merde



## jscottseptembre

hey,

"je lui ai dit merde"!

c'est donc vrai qu'on peut employer "merde" de cette manière-ci (comme en anglais) pour dire, "je ne lui ai absolument rien dit"?

qui dit merde ne dit rien?

comme "i didnt say shit to him"

tout ça est correct?

merci


----------



## Guill

The French sentence is right but I'm afraid your understanding of it isn't. In fact, it means "I told him/her that what s/he was saying didn't interest me at all" or that you absolutely didn't give a shit to what they just said. But it's more rude than what I just explained of course, though I don't really know how to say it harsher.
It must be something along the lines of "I told him : no way !"

More context would help actually


----------



## lwa

C'est Le mot de Cambronne.

Celà signifie refuser de manière rude et impolie...


----------



## jscottseptembre

Guill said:


> The French sentence is right but I'm afraid your understanding of it isn't. In fact, it means "I told him/her that what s/he was saying didn't interest me at all" or that you absolutely didn't give a shit to what they just said. But it's more rude than what I just explained of course, though I don't really know how to say it harsher.
> It must be something along the lines of "I told him : no way !"
> 
> More context would help actually



ah bon? Ce que j'ai lui a dit autrement, mais je ne sais pas si c'était écrit par un francophone; on dirait que oui mais je n'en suis pas sûr, bordel! non je rigole

tu crois que ça dépend de la région?


----------



## Guill

I don't think so no. Actually I haven't really understood what you meant on your last post, but to come back to your first post, maybe you told nothing, but you definitely expressed the fact that you didn't give a shit to their proposal or whatever they just said.


----------



## jscottseptembre

Bon laissez-moi reformuler la question

est-ce qu'on peut dire, "je n'ai pas dit merde" pour dire "je n'ai rien absolument dit"?

merci


----------



## lwa

Non, "je n'ai pas dit merde" signifierait que je suis resté poli malgré les circonstances.


----------



## jscottseptembre

lwa said:


> Non, "je n'ai pas dit merde" signifierait que je suis resté poli malgré les circonstances.



ah d'accord

apparemment ce que j'ai lu avait tort quoi

merci vous deux


----------



## jscottseptembre

lwa said:


> C'est Le mot de Cambronne.
> 
> Celà signifie refuser de manière rude et impolie...



au fait, merci pour le lien, c'est cool et intéressant


----------



## Cath.S.

_I didn't say shit to him = je lui ai dit que dalle/queud.
I said "shit" to him = Je lui ai dit "merde"._


----------



## johnblacksox

Not to start a debate on excrement, but I believe in English the context would be "Bullshit!"  If someone says something that you disagree with strongly, you (rudely) say "Bullshit!"  You wouldn't say "Shit!" in that context. 

"Shit!" is typically used as a stronger form of "Damn!"  Like if you spill wine all over your new suit, or you burn your finger, etc.


----------



## Guill

Well actually this isn't the meaning of the expression in French. You're not saying that what someboy said is only bullshits, you're saying that you don't give it a fuck.


----------



## johnblacksox

Guill said:


> Well actually this isn't the meaning of the expression in French. You're not saying that what someboy said is only bullshits, you're saying that you don't give it a fuck.


 
Ah, ok.  Like, "I don't give a shit".


----------



## mgarizona

Cath.S. said:


> _I didn't say shit to him = je lui ai dit que dalle/queud.
> I said "shit" to him = Je lui ai dit "merde"._



We American are very lax about our oaths and they often invert themselves with no change in meaning. Classic example: "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" are commonly used to express the same idea.

By the same token, "I said shit to him" and "I didn't say shit to him," "I told him shit" and "I didn't tell him shit" are ALL regularly used to express the same thing: Je lui ai dit que dalle.

How one would express Je lui ai did "merde" in English is an interesting dilemma. "I said, 'Shit!'" is simple enough, but how to add the "to him"????


----------



## mirifica

Bonjour,

On dit aussi en FR 'je lui ai dit d'aller se faire voir = to fuck off ???

Pour info, dire merde à qulqu'un signifie lui souhaiter bonne chance.


----------



## BAlfson

jscott, it's a little confusing when you present your questions with your suggested answer first.  You'd have gotten a good answer much earlier if your question had been more-clearly stated.

Cheers - Bob


----------



## Guill

mirifica said:


> Bonjour,
> 
> On dit aussi en FR 'je lui ai dit d'aller se faire voir = to fuck off ???
> 
> Pour info, dire merde à qulqu'un signifie lui souhaiter bonne chance.



Je n'y avais pas pensé mais c'est vrai que ça a aussi ce sens. Encore une fois, seul le contexte permet de trancher.


----------



## jscottseptembre

BAlfson said:


> jscott, it's a little confusing when you present your questions with your suggested answer first.  You'd have gotten a good answer much earlier if your question had been more-clearly stated.
> 
> Cheers - Bob



explique-moi ça. Ma question était, "qui dit merde ne dit rien?" et si "je lui ai dit merde" veut dire, "je ne lui ai absolument rien dit". C'est assez clair, non

Guill a tout de suite compris la question et il s'avère que non c'est pas le cas, ça ne veut pas dire ça


----------



## jscottseptembre

mgarizona said:


> We American are very lax about our oaths and they often invert themselves with no change in meaning. Classic example: *"I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" are commonly used to express the *same idea.
> 
> By the same token, "I said shit to him" and "I didn't say shit to him," "I told him shit" and "I didn't tell him shit" are ALL regularly used to express the same thing: Je lui ai dit que dalle.
> 
> How one would express Je lui ai did "merde" in English is an interesting dilemma. "I said, 'Shit!'" is simple enough, but how to add the "to him"????



Yea you're right, but that's something I could never understand! "I couldnt care less" means exactly that, it's impossible to care any less or subtract feeling where none exists, whereas, "i could care less" means basically the opposite, that one DOES care and possesses at least somewhat of a level of caring from which feeling COULD be subtracted! I know Américains use 'em interchangeably, but personally I would NEVER say, "i could care less" to mean "i couldn't care less"..because it doesnt haha.


----------



## jscottseptembre

Cath.S. said:


> _I didn't say shit to him = je lui ai dit que dalle/queud.
> I said "shit" to him = Je lui ai dit "merde"._



Oui "que dalle" j'aurais dû savoir ça! merci

au fait, arizona a raison, "i said shit to him" en anglais veut toujours dire, "je lui ai dit que dalle" haha bizarre, non


----------



## mgarizona

jscott ... a large part of it is Americans' habit of collapsing words together. Why say "have you eaten?" when you can say "Djeat?" Negative contractions--- those n'ts--- are generally just slight hums of an 'n' sound that barely register. The whole word "don't" can be reduced to the humming n to the point where "I know" and "I don't know" are indistinguishable except by inflection. Given that reality, the difference between saying "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" is practically nil.


----------



## hampton.mc

Wouldn't you say as well: "I told him jackshit"? or is it typically BE?


----------



## mgarizona

hampton.mc said:


> Wouldn't you say as well: "I told him jackshit"? or is it typically BE?



Sure, and in AE as well ... or my favorite, "I told him diddly" ... short for 'diddlysquat' ... long for 'squat' ... alternate for 'shit.' So many words!


----------



## Cath.S.

mgarizona said:


> How one would express Je lui ai did "merde" in English is an interesting dilemma. "I said, 'Shit!'" is simple enough, but how to add the "to him"????


You tell me, M. There must be a way.
I thought one solution could be to write _shit_ in inverted commas, hence my suggestion. (I wasn'ty trying to suggest the difference of meaning lay in the use of a negative or an affirmative sentence, I should have made that clear from the start).

Wouldn't, with the right tone of voice
_I said "shit" to my mother the other day, so now I'm grounded_
work at all?


----------



## mgarizona

Maybe the trouble is with the "to" ... "Fuck you" is something you say *to *someone. "Shit!" is just something you say.

You'd be more likely to hear "I said 'shit' in front of my mother," than "to my mother."

If you think about it, Cambronne's response would not have worked in English. Just "Shit!" ??? Doesn't cut it.


----------



## Cath.S.

C'est vrai, en fait en anglais on ne dit pas littéralement _merde_ aux gens. 
Mince !


----------



## BAlfson

In American, the "mot de Cambronne" is "Nuts!" - it was the response of General McAuliffe to a surrender ultimatum from the German army surrounding them in the town of Bastogne in December 1944.

Cheers - Bob


----------



## Cath.S.

Interesting, Bob; still how would you translate the historical _mot de Cambronne_?


----------



## BAlfson

I'd translate it the same as I'd translate "Nuts!" - "Go to Hell!"

Cheers - Bob


----------



## LV4-26

Yes, I think BAlfson has nailed it. And Guill as well, in post #2, though "no way" may not be offensive enough.
The meaning of _merde_ is different, depending on the context.
In Cambronne's case, it was clearly a rude way of expressing refusal.
That's also what we mean when he ask ==>
- _Oui ou merde? _ (=will you answer my question at last? Is it yes or is it no?)

But it can be slightly different. Someone mentioned "_j'ai dit merde à ma mère_". That wouldn't necessarily be an answer to a question. It could happen after an endless stream of reproaches from the mother. In this case, it expresses exasperation, rather than actual refusal. 
It could then be preceded by _et_ or et _puis_
- _Et (puis) merde, (tiens !)_

In a similar sense, one can't but think of this cue in a famous French play
"_Il se peut que tu aime la marine française. Mais la marine française, elle te dit merde_".
Also, the following kind of dialogue can be heard frequently
_- Tu n'est qu'un imbécile !
- Tu sais ce qu'il te dit, l'imbécile ?_
which is a way of saying _merde_ without actually saying it.

Note that _go to hell_ or something similar could probably serve both purposes (refusal and exasperation).


----------



## dasubergeek

"Je lui ai dit 'merde'" can also be used in the theatre, the same way English speakers say "break a leg".

Actrice : "C'est mon début ... je suis tellement nerveuse."
Amie : "Je te dis 'merde'."

Elève : "J'ai tant de soucis. C'est un examen important et je veux surtout pas échouer."
Copain : "Tu t'en sortiras bien. Je te dis 'merde'."


----------



## Cath.S.

BAlfson said:


> I'd translate it the same as I'd translate "Nuts!" - "Go to Hell!"
> 
> Cheers - Bob


Why not.


----------

