# Syriac: two dots beneath a letter in Nestorian script



## zaw

Hi,

In the Nestorian script you sometimes have two dots beneath a letter. Do they always represent the "e" sound? What about in the word ܡܹܐܡܪܵܐ? I don't think it represents "e" here because in the Jacobite script you have ܡܺܐܡܪܳܐ, not ܡܶܐܡܪܳܐ.

Toda raba


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## fdb

zaw said:


> In the Nestorian script you sometimes have two dots beneath a letter. Do they always represent the "e" sound? What about in the word ܡܹܐܡܪܵܐ? I don't think it represents "e" here because in the Jacobite script you have ܡܺܐܡܪܳܐ, not ܡܶܐܡܪܳܐ.


There are many words where Old Syriac ē is retained in Eastern Syriac, but shifts to ī in Western Syriac. This is one of them.


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## Ali Smith

What does the macron above the e signify? That it’s a longer vowel than the ones in ܟܶܬܒܶ݁ܬ݂ ‘I wrote.’?


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## fdb

Ali Smith said:


> What does the macron above the e signify? That it’s a longer vowel than the ones in ܟܶܬܒܶ݁ܬ݂ ‘I wrote.’?


Yes, it means that it was long vowel at least in Old Aramaic (and in proto-Semitic). At some point Syriac loses the distinction between long and short vowels.


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## Ali Smith

fdb said:


> There are many words where Old Syriac ē is retained in Eastern Syriac, but shifts to ī in Western Syriac. This is one of them.


Are ܢܹܐܡܲܪ 'We will say' and ܢܹܐܟܘܿܠ 'We will eat' examples of ē > ī too?


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## zj73

ܢܹܐܟܘܿܠ is not an example of this change but ܢܹܐܡܲܪ is.


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## Ali Smith

zaw said:


> Hi,
> 
> In the Nestorian script you sometimes have two dots beneath a letter. Do they always represent the "e" sound? What about in the word ܡܹܐܡܪܵܐ? I don't think it represents "e" here because in the Jacobite script you have ܡܺܐܡܪܳܐ, not ܡܶܐܡܪܳܐ.
> 
> Toda raba


Please note that there is a difference between two dots placed side by side and two dots placed diagonally. The former represents /e/ while the latter represents /ē/. Thus, biblical Aramaic כָּתֵב became ܟܵܬ݂ܹܒ݂ (note that the dots beneath the ܬ are placed diagonally). Using the West Syriac vowel-signs this would be spelled ܟܳܬ݂ܶܒ݂, of course.

By the way, I have attached pages from Thackston and Coakley that you might find interesting.


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## JAN SHAR

Biblical Aramaic כָּתֵב did NOT become ܟܵܬ݂ܹܒ݂. It became ܟܵܬ݂ܸܒ݂. Note the difference in the dots under the middle letter.


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## Ali Smith

Then why is the vowel in Biblical Aramaic long?

כָּתֵב


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## radagasty

Ali Smith said:


> Then why is the vowel in Biblical Aramaic long?
> כָּתֵב



It’s short. Note also the alternation between כָּתֵב and כָּתִב.


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