# La punta del iceberg



## Krümelmonster

Hi, 

I read an article of the newspaper "El pais" and found the expression "la punta del iceberg".
"Eisberg" is German and means growler (Berg=Mountain). 
I suppose the origin of that expression is: 
The English took the German word "Berg" and so there's the expression "the tip of the iceberg". The Spanish took the word "iceberg" and formed the phrase "la punta del iceberg".

Now this seems really funny to me for "la punta del iceberg" is actually a trilingual expression in Spanish, English and German! 

So my question is: Is it really common in Spanish to say so? Or do you have an "all-Spanish" term for it? If not, do you really have no spanish word for Iceberg?

Thanks, Mila
​


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## Tatzingo

Krümelmonster said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I read an article of the newspaper "El pais" and found the expression "la punta del iceberg".
> "Eisberg" is German and means growler (Berg=Mountain).
> I suppose the origin of that expression is:
> The English took the German word "Berg" and so there's the expression "the tip of the iceberg". The Spanish took the word "iceberg" and formed the phrase "la punta del iceberg".
> 
> Now this seems really funny to me for "la punta del iceberg" is actually a trilingual expression in Spanish, English and German!
> 
> So my question is: Is it really common in Spanish to say so? Or do you have an "all-Spanish" term for it? If not, do you really have no spanish word for Iceberg?
> 
> Thanks, Mila
> ​



Hi,

Interesting! WR dictionary states; Iceberg = Iceberg, I also looked for *glacier* ['glæsɪəʳ] _nombre_ glaciar.

Even an Iceberg Lettuce (no idea what this is in German... a vegetable -in green salad) is called Lechuga Iceberg!

Tatz.


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## Krümelmonster

Oh, you may guess what that's in German... Eisbergsalat, of course


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## pjay

Iceberg sounds German but it's actually from some Scandinavian language, probably, Danish. In Danish it's something like eisbjerg, if I remember correctly. Spelling might be wrong. The reason why this nordic language term has become so popular in languages such as German, English and even Spanish seems obvious to me.


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## Krümelmonster

Well, of course, but "Eisberg" are two German words combined, for it is a mountain out of ice, una montana de hielo... but in English "berg" is a borrowed word, and in Spanish, "ice" and "berg" are borrowed from two different languages!


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## pjay

The German term "Eisberg" is what linguists call a calque or a "loan translation" similar to English "chainsmoker" which is taken from German "Kettenraucher".

The Spanish term iceberg reveals its etymology. From Danish to English to Spanish.

You have loads of words of mixed etymological origin. The English word sugar / German Zucker came originally from Arabic. Sugar was introduced to Europe first via Spain and Italy. English Sugar and German Zucker were clearly borrowed from Italian. The morphology gives it away. Another example is the Arabic/French/English/German term a(d)miral.


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## Whodunit

pjay said:
			
		

> Iceberg sounds German but it's actually from some Scandinavian language, probably, Danish. In Danish it's something like eisbjerg, if I remember correctly. Spelling might be wrong. The reason why this nordic language term has become so popular in languages such as German, English and even Spanish seems obvious to me.


 
No, it's not from Danish and not from a Scandinavian language. it's Dutch:



> *iceberg*
> 1774, partial loan-transl. of Du. _ijsberg,_ lit. "ice mountain," from _ijs_ "ice" + _berg_ "mountain." An earlier term was _sea-hill_ (1694). Phrase _tip of the iceberg,_ in a figurative sense, first recorded 1963.


 
And you see it is indeed the word "berg" that the English borrowed. We never talked about "Eis", which is indeed translated. 

In French, it's *iceberg*, too.


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## Jana337

Likewise in Italian; they have a generic word for iceberg (ghiacciaio) but they say "la punta dell'iceberg". 

I am moving this to the German forum because I feel it will get more attention there. A redirect will remain in OL for those who would not find the thread directly.

Jana


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## Vanda

Well, you'll have to add a fourth one.  The Portuguese word and expression is "a ponta do *iceberg*".


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## rustymason

A "growler"?  There's an interesting word.  Is it slang?


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## Krümelmonster

I don't know about that word and hadn't heard it before, too. But this is just what the German-English LEO-Dictionary gave me as a result for "Eisberg". Growler and iceberg. I already wondered, for the other translation of growler was "Brummbär" 
So this is no common word for iceberg?


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## rustymason

"Growler" is a standard word in one of my dictionaries.  I've never heard it before, but then, I live on the Gulf coast.  Perhaps it is more common in maritime circles up north.


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## Tino_no

Hello, I've heard "La punta del iceberg" a lot of times in spanish, also we usually call it "*iceberg*", not *glaciar.*


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## gaer

pjay said:
			
		

> The German term "Eisberg" is what linguists call a calque or a "loan translation" similar to English "chainsmoker" which is taken from German "Kettenraucher".


It must be "chain-smoker", with a hyphen. I could not read the word at first as one word. 

I thought about starting a thread but figured just this one comment would not be too off topic…

Amazing that this word (Eisberg, iceberg) is in so many languages!

Gaer


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## Sepia

pjay said:
			
		

> Iceberg sounds German but it's actually from some Scandinavian language, probably, Danish. In Danish it's something like eisbjerg, if I remember correctly. Spelling might be wrong. The reason why this nordic language term has become so popular in languages such as German, English and even Spanish seems obvious to me.


 

Not quite true: In Danish it is "isbjerg" with a soft "g" at the end - so the pronounciation is very far from the English-German word, Iceberg or the German word Eisberg.


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## cyanista

Sepia: Whodunit already told us the word was of Dutch origin. 


			
				gaer said:
			
		

> Amazing that this word (Eisberg, iceberg) is in so many languages!



The Russians borrowed the word and the expresssion "tip of the iceberg" as well! (I wonder who didn't.)


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## Sepia

cyanista said:
			
		

> Sepia: Whodunit already told us the word was of Dutch origin.
> 
> ...


 

Tell PJay, not me.

And about the Russians. They borrowed quite a lot of words - they hired a lot of experts from abroad over the centuries.


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## Whodunit

cyanista said:
			
		

> The Russians borrowed the word and the expresssion "tip of the iceberg" as well! (I wonder who didn't.)


 
Maybe the Arabs didn't. 

I've found جبل الجليد (djabalu 'l-djaliidi) in this dictionary.


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## Argentum

I read above someone who said that in italian exists the word "ghiacciaio" for iceberg. The same word is "glaciar" in spanish.

The confusion here in general, (at least this is how I think it is), is that Glaciar is not the same than iceberg.

The:

Spanish: Glaciar
German: Gletscher
English: Glacier
Italian: ghiacciaio

...are not the same than "iceberg" and not even close. 

A "glacier" is a river of ice going down by a mountain, a glacier is over a mountain, it moves through solid land, while an iceberg is a piece of ice floating on the sea. VERY different things.

Example: El Glaciar Perito Moreno in Argentina.

If someone in spanish or any language says glaciar instead of iceberg it would be wrong, they are not synonyms at all. At least this is what I've always known about them.


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## pickypuck

Just to note that in Spain, "iceberg" is pronouned as it is written, that is to say, the Spanish way.

¡Olé!


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## Argentum

Interesting, we here in Argentina say iceberg like in english (aisberg).


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