# Norwegian: rsj



## mezzoforte

Do you normally pronounce the (trilled) *r* in *r+sj* in the Oslo dialect?  I know it is retroflex for *r+s*, and I'm wondering if a distinction is made between the two consonant clusters.

There is the expression: *for sjelden*, but I imagine the *r* is retroflex or omitted because it is a common expression and doesn't need the full pronunciation.

(P.S. I don't think this was specifically addressed in the long thread about *rs*).


----------



## Tommeliten

mezzoforte said:


> Do you normally pronounce the (trilled) *r* in *r+sj* in the Oslo dialect? I know it is retroflex for *r+s*, and I'm wondering if a distinction is made between the two consonant clusters.
> 
> There is the expression: *for sjelden*, but I imagine the *r* is retroflex or omitted because it is a common expression and doesn't need the full pronunciation.
> 
> (P.S. I don't think this was specifically addressed in the long thread about *rs*).


It is different dialects, or _sociolects_ in Oslo, so your question has many correct answers. My dialect is from Romerike and is probably close to a "non-existing" working class standard. I do not pronounce this "r", so I say /fåsjeldn/with stress on e. Unless I speak slowly....then I also will pronounce the "r".


----------



## missTK

I think r+sj and r+s are the same in most sociolects. There may be exceptions that I'm not remembering.


----------



## mezzoforte

Tommeliten said:


> It is different dialects, or _sociolects_ in Oslo, so your question has many correct answers. My dialect is from Romerike and is probably close to a "non-existing" working class standard. I do not pronounce this "r", so I say /fåsjeldn/with stress on e. Unless I speak slowly....then I also will pronounce the "r".



Okay.  But I think that my example may have been a poor choice, because this is a common expression that would be said fast anyway.  Is it the same whenever you see r+sj?


----------



## Pteppic

For me, there is no difference in pronunciation between *mars* (March, the third month of the year) and *marsj* (march, the act or course of marching) - they both sound like "masj". *For sjelden* I pronounce as "fosjeldn".


----------



## mezzoforte

OKAY!!  And thank you for that perfect example.  What sociolect of Oslo should I be learning, and how is it for that?


----------



## Pteppic

mezzoforte said:


> OKAY!!  And thank you for that perfect example.  What sociolect of Oslo should I be learning, and how is it for that?



You're welcome  As for what sociolect to choose, I think it's best to just go for Standard East Norwegian (where rs = rsj, incidentally), as it's much easier to relate to a standard (such as it is) rather than a dialect (or sociolect) which almost always has individual variations.


----------



## mezzoforte

Pteppic said:


> You're welcome  As for what sociolect to choose, I think it's best to just go for Standard East Norwegian (where rs = rsj, incidentally), as it's much easier to relate to a standard (such as it is) rather than a dialect (or sociolect) which almost always has individual variations.



I agree, but I'm learning in this forum that even Oslo, which is supposed to speak _that _language, has dialects.


----------



## Pteppic

Well, Standard Eastern Norwegian could probably also be called Newsreader Norwegian, as they are mostly the only people who speak it. Oh, and foreign learners, of course  I think most of us Norwegians here automatically go for the standard when answering questions, anyway (and then mention three or four possible dialectal varieties, just to be confusing).


----------



## mezzoforte

Pteppic said:


> Well, Standard Eastern Norwegian could probably also be called Newsreader Norwegian, as they are mostly the only people who speak it. Oh, and foreign learners, of course  I think most of us Norwegians here automatically go for the standard when answering questions, anyway (and then mention three or four possible dialectal varieties, just to be confusing).



Oh, my understanding was that different dialects are spoken in the media (news, radio).  So you say that usually it's SEN that is said on the news?


----------



## Pteppic

mezzoforte said:


> Oh, my understanding was that different dialects are spoken in the media (news, radio).  So you say that usually it's SEN that is said on the news?



Not quite. I would say the vast majority of people who use SEN are newsreaders, but that doesn't mean that all newsreaders use SEN - those who grew up outside south-eastern Norway use their 'native' speech.


----------



## mezzoforte

ok, got it


----------

