# Swedish: pronunciation of v



## Krigsmaskin-Schlachtfeld

Is it true that the letter v when spoke it sounds more like a a "w" sound. 
 
Example: Varning,  Vansinne, Välkommen-- it pronounced as like it's english counterpart, warning, right?
 
Thanks.


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## mabajsas

No it doesn't, it sounds like a normal "v" sound.


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## Lugubert

It is rather the other way round: many Swedes find it difficult to pronounce a 'w' in English words.

In Swedish alphabetical order, v and w traditionally are regarded as the same letter, much like in German 'ä' or 'ö' are treated like 'a' or 'o', respectively.


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## Grytolle

Sometimes v sounds like [v] (thus sometimes like an f, because of assimilation), sometimes like [ʋ].


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## Linnets

Grytolle said:


> Sometimes v sounds like [v] (thus sometimes like an f, because of assimilation), sometimes like [ʋ].


 
I think [ʋ] or, better, a sound intermediate betwen [v] and [ʋ] ([v̞]) is typical of the Swedish language spoken in Western Finland. As far as the [f] pronunciation for the /v/ phoneme is concerned, it occurs in a consonant cluster with a voiceless sound, such as /sv/ in _Sverige_: ['sfæɾʝɘ].


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## jonquiliser

Krigsmaskin-Schlachtfeld said:


> Is it true that the letter v when spoke it sounds more like a a "w" sound.
> 
> Example: Varning,  Vansinne, Välkommen-- it pronounced as like it's english counterpart, warning, right?



Nope. Sounds rather more like the "v" in the English word "varnish".



Lugubert said:


> It is rather the other way round: many Swedes find it difficult to pronounce a 'w' in English words.



Isn't it rather that people sometimes mix them up and say "v" for "w" *or* "w" for "v"? Sometimes I do that too, if there are many of each letter in a sentence. 



Linnets said:


> I think [ʋ] or, better, a sound intermediate betwen [v] and [ʋ] ([v̞]) is typical of the Swedish language spoken in Western Finland. As far as the [f] pronunciation for the /v/ phoneme is concerned, it occurs in a consonant cluster with a voiceless sound, such as /sv/ in _Sverige_: ['sfæɾʝɘ].



Hmm, exactly what part of Finland are you thinking of? I don't think I've ever come across something like that.

Could it be that Vs in certain word positions in skånska resemble an English w?


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## Linnets

jonquiliser said:


> Hmm, exactly what part of Finland are you thinking of?


The areas in Finland where Swedish is the native language for the main part of the population.





jonquiliser said:


> Could it be that Vs in certain word positions in skånska resemble an English w?


I've never read in my phonetic books a similar feature of Scanian. Do you have some references?


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## Wilma_Sweden

jonquiliser said:


> Isn't it rather that people sometimes mix them up and say "v" for "w" *or* "w" for "v"? Sometimes I do that too, if there are many of each letter in a sentence.


In my experience, many Swedes tend to over-use the w when speaking English, i.e. they will pronounce word correctly but vice sounds like /wice/ or /wise/ 


> Could it be that Vs in certain word positions in skånska resemble an English w?


I can only imagine that happening occasionally, more likely 'hard' consonants like k, p or t tend to get softer (g, b or d) when pronounced between two vowels, from speakers with a very strong Scanian accent.

/Wilma


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## Linnets

Wilma_Sweden said:


> In my experience, many Swedes tend to over-use the w when speaking English, i.e. they will pronounce word correctly but vice sounds like /wice/ or /wise/


That's a phenomenon called hypercorrection. The Swedes are not used to pronouncing a /w/ at the beginning of a word and so they generalize the /w/ phoneme even for /v/, unconsciously thinking it's the "correct way".


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## Wilma_Sweden

Linnets said:


> That's a phenomenon called hypercorrection. The Swedes are not used to pronouncing a /w/ at the beginning of a word and so they generalize the /w/ phoneme even for /v/, unconsciously thinking it's the "correct way".


Alternatively, they're so used to words beginning with w that they forget there are those beginning with v also. They have absolutely no problem with whisky and [Microsoft] Word, which we pronounce with /w/ in Swedish, too... I just came back from a package tour to Scotland, and the one thing my fellow Swedish tourists could pronounce correctly was whisky...  Cheers!  (Hic!)  

/Wilma


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## jonquiliser

Wilma_Sweden said:


> I can only imagine that happening occasionally, more likely 'hard' consonants like k, p or t tend to get softer (g, b or d) when pronounced between two vowels, from speakers with a very strong Scanian accent.


 
Yes, I thought about it after posting that it might be more the stretching and bending of vowels that make a v appear more like a w to my ears - as in "vår" pronounced with a strong Scanian accent, perhaps.



Linnets said:


> The areas in Finland where Swedish is the native language for the main part of the population.
> I've never read in my phonetic books a similar feature of Scanian. Do you have some references?


 
What kind of references would you like? I live in Finland and have so for a large part of my life; Swedish is my mother tongue. I'm not aware of any general difference between the way v is pronounced in Finland and Sweden. I am no linguist though.


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## Linnets

jonquiliser said:


> What kind of references would you like? I live in Finland and have so for a large part of my life; Swedish is my mother tongue. I'm not aware of any general difference between the way v is pronounced in Finland and Sweden. I am no linguist though.


 
This is a paper made by the Italian phonetician Luciano Canepari; it uses an extension of the IPA, but you can just notice the slightly different sign used for the description of the Finnish-Swedish accent:

http://venus.unive.it/canipa/pdf/Swedish.pdf

For Scanian, he uses only [v].


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## Hilde

The difference between the English and the Norwegian V (which as far as I know is similar to the Sweedish), is that the english V is a fricative, while the Norwegian is an approximant. In English there is friction between the teeth and the lower lip, while in Norwegian there is at small opening and no friction.

My experience is also w-sound overuse "wery" - "wisit". Maybe because the w-sound is new to norwegians/sweedes, and they end up using it in all contexts. Hypercorrection, as somebody wrote.

But there might perhaps also be a connection to the difference between the two v-sounds, as the norwegian v is a bit like W, both being approximants.


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## Linnets

Hilde said:


> The difference between the English and the Norwegian V (which as far as I know is similar to the Sweedish), is that the english V is a fricative, while the Norwegian is an approximant. In English there is friction between the teeth and the lower lip, while in Norwegian there is at small opening and no friction.


Are you sure it is the standard pronunciation? My phonetic sources give [v] (fricative) for Swedish, Norwegian (I don't know if there's a difference between Bokmål and Nynorsk, though) and also Danish. It is approximant only in Swedish spoken in Western Finland.


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## Södertjej

I'm not a linguist either but I've never detected a clear difference between v in Finland and Sweden. 

I've no idea what that document comes from but my suggestion is you compare it to similar works by native Swedish linguists rather than just sticking to what it says as if it was undisputable. It said something about the e in Stockholm which isn't exactly correct. The e sound in Stockholm may vary depending on the accent (posh or working class) there's not just one way it's pronounced by everyone in Stockholm.


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## Hilde

its definitely not a fricative i norwegian. Compare it to your f - which is a fricative - they're different, aren't they? 

For instance: Compare your pronounciation of english and norwegian "viking" and you'll feel the difference. The English v feels stronger and last longer.

But I know theres a tradition of classifying the scand. v as a fricative Regardless, it IS different from the English.

(the ipa sign given by grytolle earlier represents the sound I am writing about  (not [v])


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## Linnets

Hilde said:


> its definitely not a fricative i norwegian. Compare it to your f - which is a fricative - they're different, aren't they?
> 
> For instance: Compare your pronounciation of english and norwegian "viking" and you'll feel the difference. The English v feels stronger and last longer.
> 
> But I know theres a tradition of classifying the scand. v as a fricative
> Regardless, it IS different from the English.


       So, you are saying that in Norwegian /v/ is actually [ʋ], like _w_ in Dutch? I need to know if you are referring to Bokmål or Nynorsk and from which part of Norway you come from. Thanks in advance


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## Hilde

Linnets said:


> So, you are saying that in Norwegian /v/ is actually [ʋ], like _w_ in Dutch? I need to know if you are referring to Bokmål or Nynorsk and from which part of Norway you come from. Thanks in advance


 
I dont know about Dutch, but this -[ʋ] - is the IPA sign teached to all new students in norwegian universities nowadays. Aproximant, right?

I am not referring til bokmål or nynorsk, as these are written languages, hence no soundsThe v-sound would apply to all dialects as far as I know. 

you'll find the classification as aproxm. in wikipedia too


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## Wilma_Sweden

Södertjej said:


> my suggestion is you compare it to similar works by native Swedish linguists


The Italian phonologist seems to take his IPA very seriously, but out of curiosity you might want to look at a Swedish work by a Swedish scholar (from Stockholm University). He uses the [v] character with [f] as an allophone (voiceless distribution).

http://www.su.se/content/1/c4/78/98/Svenskt_Fonologikompendium.pdf

/Wilma


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## Krigsmaskin-Schlachtfeld

Tack. Thanks for all the replies.


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