# Pau Mandado/ Maria vai com as outras



## Vinny Ribeiro

Hey guys, 

I can't think of a way to translate the expressions "pau mandado" or "Maria vai com as outras" to english. I'm pretty sure I've heard them before but they simply don't come to mind at the moment. Any suggestions?

I appreciate your help. =)


----------



## Vanda

About Brazilian and Portuguese expressions, read this interesting thread.
Maybe a definition of the expression helps you:
pau-mandado=  Pessoa subserviente, que faz tudo quanto lhe mandam
maria-vai-com-as-outras = Pessoa fraca, sem vontade, que se deixa levar pelos outros; carneiro, carneirinho:

Oops, perdão, agora que reparei que você é brasileiro. Anyway, fica para os estrangeiros conhecerem a expressão.


----------



## Vinny Ribeiro

haha, Thanks for the good intention Vanda but I know what the expressions mean =). I just can't think of a way to say them in English without being too formal by saying "subservient" as you suggested. Thank you, though!


----------



## Vanda

Acho que achei uma. 

*maria-vai-com-as-outras*= milquetoast= very timid, unassertive, spineless person, esp. one who is easily dominated or intimidated: a milquetoast who's afraid to ask for a raise.(here)


----------



## Vinny Ribeiro

Wow, that certainly is a unknown term for me. (not anymore though)

And It really matches the description of maria-vai-com-as-outras! very interesting  

Thanks, Vanda!


----------



## Vanda

And this one for pau-mandado: bootlicking. (till natives appear and give us more appropriate idioms).


----------



## MOC

I don't feel a maria-vai-com-as-outras is a spineless person who is easily dominated or intimidated but maybe that's just a different meaning I give to that term. For me a maria-vai-com-as-outras is someone lacking personality or brains to make her own decisions and therefore does whatever she sees others doing. Not because they make her do that. That definition in my opinion has more to do with the "pau-mandado" than "maria-vai-com-as-outras".


----------



## Portvcale

Engraçado, na ligação colocada por Vanda, tem duas definições distintas: uma para pau-mandado (a primeira) e outra para lambe-botas (a segunda), que a meu ver têm significados ligeiramente diferentes.


----------



## Vanda

Também fiquei nesta dúvida, MOC. Na verdade, até mudei a palavra, mas a outra definição casava melhor. Como eu disse, até que apareçam as expressões referentes. As definições cobrem parte da expressão, mas não dão o sentido exato que damos a elas.


----------



## Vinny Ribeiro

ahh .. I knew that one ^^. I guess I got consufed by the definition of "maria-vai-com-as-outras". Reflecting on my question now, I realized we don't have anything like "maria-vai-com-as-outras", but we do have a lot of idioms like "puxa-saco," which means bootlicker, suck-up, toady, yes-man, etcetera. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they pass the same message?


----------



## arbilab

I see a distinction, Vinny.  One is a sheep, going along with the flock for lack of self-determinism.  The other is actively seeking approval of superiors, without substantive basis.


----------



## MOC

arbilab said:


> I see a distinction, Vinny. One is a sheep, going along with the flock for lack of self-determinism. The other is actively seeking approval of superiors, without substantive basis.


 

I see the difference between this two "personnas" as well. The first one is our "maria-vai-com-as-outras". The second one is our "lambe-botas". In Portugal this last one is also called "engraxador".


----------



## Vinny Ribeiro

É. Em português existe uma distincção entre os dois termos. Mas eu não creio que exista um termo que realmente "takes up" o significado de "maria-vai-com-as-outras". Ah, que ódio! ^^

AHH! what about "Pushover"???


----------



## slacker11

I guess it is like this:

_Ele é um Maria-vai-com-as-outras!

*He goes with the flow!*_


----------



## arbilab

'Sheep' and 'suckup' are the two English terms that jump to mind.  One follows the tail in front of it, the other patronizes it.


----------



## olivinha

Yes, _sheep_ for _maria-vai-com-as-outras_ could work, but _suckup _for _pau-mandado_, I'm not sure. That would be saying that a _pau-mandado_ is a _puxa-saco_, which is not necessarily true. A _pau-mandado_ is a subservient person who is ready to do whatever is asked to but not necessarily a _suck-up_.


----------



## arbilab

Ah, I see that distinction too.  Also, that none of the phrases translates literally.  'Course, English never does that.


----------



## Benvindo

Vinny Ribeiro said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I can't think of a way to translate the expressions "pau mandado" or "Maria vai com as outras" to english. I'm pretty sure I've heard them before but they simply don't come to mind at the moment. Any suggestions?
> 
> I appreciate your help. =)



- - -
This is from my old  Oswaldo Serpa's Dicionário de Expressões Idiomáticas [EN-PT/PT-EN] (Fename, Rio de Janeiro, 1980) - I wonder if these expressions are still used! 

_ser um *pau mandado*_, be a person used to perform reproachful, shameful duties; be a stooge, be a cat's paw, be a servile fellow.

_ser um *maria-vai-com-as-outras*_, be a milksop, be a wishy-washy, be a pushover, be a weak sister.

Hope someone will comment on these translations!


----------



## btonasse

Benvindo said:


> - - -
> This is from my old  Oswaldo Serpa's Dicionário de Expressões Idiomáticas [EN-PT/PT-EN] (Fename, Rio de Janeiro, 1980) - I wonder if these expressions are still used!
> 
> _ser um *pau mandado*_, be a person used to perform reproachful, shameful duties; be a stooge, be a cat's paw, be a servile fellow.
> 
> _ser um *maria-vai-com-as-outras*_, be a milksop, be a wishy-washy, be a pushover, be a weak sister.
> 
> Hope someone will comment on these translations!



IMO you absolutely nailed it, Benvindo. For "pau mandado" I would add more possibilities: lackey, pawn, puppet. Depending on context, these words would fit perfectly.


----------

