# login problems



## mkellogg

Hi,

I've been getting an awful lot of people having trouble logging in lately.  The visitors report that, immediately after logging in, they are told "thanks for logging in", but then they are not logged in.

My suggestion is usually: 
Clear your web browser's cache and/or click "remember me" when logging in.

Has anybody had this problem and know which solution worked for them?

Thanks,
Mike


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## fenixpollo

Sorry, Mike. I have "remember me" checked and I never log out, so I never need to log in.

The only exception is when I am on my Mac, using Safari. I have lately been having problems in that I have to log in each time I visit, and I get timed out frequently, no matter how *strenuously* I check the "remember me" box.   I have a feeling that this is an issue with my machine, however, and not the forum.


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## mkellogg

pollo,
It sounds like cookies are turned off on that Mac.


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## Outsider

I had that problem for a few days, but not anymore. However, now I need to login every time I come to the forum, even though I select "Remember me".


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## Jana337

As Mike suggested, have you checked whether WR can save cookies on your computer?

Jana


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## Etcetera

fenixpollo said:


> Sorry, Mike. I have "remember me" checked and I never log out, so I never need to log in.


So do I. And I've never experienced any problems with logging in here so far.


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## lsp

fenixpollo said:


> ... on my Mac, using Safari. I have lately been having problems in that I have to log in each time I visit, and I get timed out frequently...


MAC/Safari here, too, but no login or timeout problem. Did you check cookies, as Mike suggested?


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## cuchuflete

Mac user reporting: I mostly use Firefox, but often test with both Safari and that other thing---it hurts to write it-- Internet ex.......

I've had no login or timeout problems with any of the three environments.  I have the forum.wordreference.com cookies enabled in all three browsers.  

Safari is, and always has been, a little slower for page loads than the others, but it is perfectly stable and works fine.

Pollo--feel free to PM to compare configurations, settings, incantations, and which herbs to sprinkle on the Mac to guarantee a happy forero experience.


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## maxiogee

I think I am being detained "at M. Kellogg's pleasure" as the British justice system would say. I have never had any problems being recognised when I open up Safari. The Cultural Discussions forum is my 'home page' and I logged in once and clicked 'remember me'. Now I think I'd have problems leaving, the guards are too alert.


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## calembourde

I was always logged in with 'remember me' on, in Safari. About a week ago somebody reset Safari (which removes the history, empties the cache, removes cookies, and does some other stuff.) Since then, I have been in the same situation as fenixpollo. I log in, click 'remember me' as decisively as I can, but when I come back a while later I'm not logged in any more. I checked that I have cookies turned on... I have seven cookies from wordreference.com and four from forum.wordreference.com. I tried deleting them and then logging in again, in case they were corrupt or something, but it didn't help. 

One has an expiration date of about 25 minutes from now... so if I had to guess, I'd say that if I come back after that time I'll be logged out again. The expiration dates on the others look okay but I wonder if whichever one says 'keep me logged in as calembourde' is now being sent with the wrong expiration date, or something... that would explain why people who still have an old cookie (with an expiration date far in the future) have no problems but those who recently got a new cookie can't stay logged in.


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## maxiogee

calembourde said:


> I have seven cookies from wordreference.com and four from forum.wordreference.com. I tried deleting them and then logging in again, in case they were corrupt or something, but it didn't help.
> 
> One has an expiration date of about 25 minutes from now...



I have ten from .wordreference.com and four from .forum.wordreference.com. In  both cases there is one which expires on Jan 18, 2038 at 12:00 AM.
I'm going to have to stick around to see what happens that day!


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## calembourde

Now I have eight cookies from wordreference.com. Why do you get more cookies? I want more cookies! 

Could it be something to do with the upgrade of the forum software which I think happened fairly recently? I don't know which version of vBulletin wordreference had before (I see it's now the latest version, 3.6.1), but I found the vBulletin bug database and noticed this one in version 3.5.

I also noticed this in the changes in 3.6.1, though I have no idea what it means or whether it would affect this:



> HttpOnly Cookies to Prevent XSS Attacks - certain cookies will no longer be available to JavaScript, which prevents many XSS attacks from stealing data. PHP has also accepted our patch to add this feature to PHP 5.2.0.



Okay, enough sleuthing for today


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## calembourde

Incidentally, I have no problem staying connected on a forum using vBulletin 3.6.0, from which I have seven cookies, with different names from the wordreference ones.


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## fenixpollo

calembourde said:


> I was always logged in with 'remember me' on, in Safari. About a week ago somebody reset Safari (which removes the history, empties the cache, removes cookies, and does some other stuff.) Since then, I have been in the same situation as fenixpollo.


I discovered that Safari was also reset on my computer.  I have the same 4 cookies that others are reporting, including the 2038 one.  Safari is set to accept cookies only from sites I navigate to.


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## .   1

I just received a warning that the link I was following may be a false link even though I had clicked on the e-mail link notifying me of a response to a thread I had subscribed to.  I ignored the warning and was taken to the thread.
Each time I have logged onto the internet over the past two days my virus protection software has blocked an attempt by a trojan worm.

I don't know what this means.

Robert


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## mkellogg

I'm not sure what "reset Safari" involves, but that might be a problem.  Some of you have it set to reject outside cookies?  I would test to see if that is the problem if I were you. It might be badly written and reject important cookies (but I doubt it).  The cookie(s) that are important for "remember me" are saved under wordrefence.com, not forum.wordreference.com

Here are some basic troubleshooting steps:
If the problem is only with one browser on the computer, it is the browser.
If the problem is with all browsers on the one computer, but the problem doesn't exist on another computer beside it, it is the computer.
Then test the ISP as well.

I hope you are able to track it down so I can give people some better information when they have the problem... 

Thanks,
Mike

PS. Robert, I'm not sure what sort of program that you are running that tells you that links might be false, so I can't help much there.


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## .   1

I am a standard old boring Windows XP with Internet Explorer.

Robert


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## calembourde

I changed my cookie settings to accept all cookies and not just ones from the sites I visit. I still don't stay logged in and now I have nine from .wordreference.com and four from forum.wordreference.com. I'm going to try logging in with Firefox and see if that sticks, but even if it is only a problem in Safari, I'd say that it only appeared in the latest version of vBulletin, since I had no problem in the past and I have no problem on another board with vBulletin 3.6.0. It seems that it works for people who still have their old cookies, but not for anyone who got new cookies recently.


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## calembourde

Okay, it looks like I can stay logged in with Firefox, where I have four cookies from forum.wordreference.com and ten from wordreference.com. It seems like omething has changed about the cookies and/or Safari that means Safari doesn't accept that crucial tenth cookie (but will keep it if, as in Tony's case, it already has it.)

Okay, I just compared cookie names between Safari and Firefox. There are several differences (not just one missing one) but the obvious suspects are bbuserid and bbpassword, which are in Firefox but not Safari (and yet, Safari has those cookies for the other vBulletin site I mentioned.) I wonder why it's not keeping those cookies.


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## maxiogee

I have sent Calembourde a screenshot of the WR generated cookies from my Safari cache - maybe a comparison might highlight the difference.


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## rsweet

I just wanted to add my name to the list. I'm using Safari and have had the same problem as others.

I'm also attaching a screenshot of my cookies. ...Sounds weird, doesn't it?


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## calembourde

Comparing my .wordreference.com cookies to maxiogee's, I am missing bbpassword and bbuserid (probably these are the important ones) and also bbforum_view and bbthread_lastview. Instead, I have __utmc, __utmb and llang. The other cookies are the same.

I see that rsweet also doesn't have bbpassword or bbuserid.

I do have bbpassword and bbuserid cookies for another site I'm on that uses vBulletin 3.6.0, which does remember me. If I delete those two cookies and then log into that site again and tell it to remember me, then I get those cookies back again and it does remember me. So it seems as though they work perfectly on that site, but for whatever reason, perhaps due to server settings or the slightly newer version of vBulletin, Safari does not get, or does not keep, those two cookies from this site.

I would guess that if maxiogee (or somebody else who has Safari but not this problem) deleted those two cookies and then logged in again, he would not get the cookies back and the board would not remember him. I'm not going to recommend the experiment since I expect the outcome would be annoying and would not actually solve the problem.


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## carpe

I thank everyone of you !!
I solved already what I wanted!


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## mkellogg

Calembourde, thanks for tracking this down.

I don't know why this site would have trouble writing the cookies to Safari, and the other site wouldn't.  Can other Safari users confirm this is a problem?

Also, vB 3.6.2 has just been released.  I don't think it fixes this error, but it might.  I'll probably upgrade the forum to 3.6.2 Thursday night.  We will test again then, and I'll create a bug report at vBulletin if it isn't resolved.


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## lsp

mkellogg said:


> Calembourde, thanks for tracking this down.
> 
> I don't know why this site would have trouble writing the cookies to Safari, and the other site wouldn't.  Can other Safari users confirm this is a problem?
> 
> Also, vB 3.6.2 has just been released.  I don't think it fixes this error, but it might.  I'll probably upgrade the forum to 3.6.2 Thursday night.  We will test again then, and I'll create a bug report at vBulletin if it isn't resolved.


Safari at home and in the office - no problems.


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## rsweet

I have reset Safari, emptied the cache, and logged into WR a few times with the "Remember Me" check box checked. I still have to log in every time I open Safari (this wasn't the case before).

I've taken another screenshot of cookies. There are a few more, but they're not keeping my login info.

Thanks,
Ronni

The same thing happens with Firefox 1.5.0.7 for Mac.


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## Outsider

rsweet said:


> I have reset Safari, emptied the cache, and logged into WR a few times with the "Remember Me" check box checked. I still have to log in every time I open Safari (this wasn't the case before).


Here, here.


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## cuchuflete

rsweet said:
			
		

> The same thing happens with Firefox 1.5.0.7 for Mac.



I'm running Firefox 1.5.0.7 with OS 10.2.8...No problems.
Also, no problems with Safari, but I haven't cleared the cache or cookies in Safari for a while.


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## rsweet

The login issue started after I cleared all the cookies. For some reason I can't get the userid cookies back for this site.


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## Outsider

I had to reinstall the OS in my computer recently. That may have been when I started to have these problems.


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## rsweet

Outsider's problem sounds logical to me because installing a new OS would automatically put a virgin copy of Safari on his computer (sans cookies). 

I've tried clicking on the "Accept Cookies: Always" option as well as the "Accept Cookies: Only from sites I navigate to" with equal results.


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## maxiogee

Does anyone know how cookies work?

I have found a file in my user library folder - in a folder called cookies - the file is called cookies.plist

I was able to open it and copy it in TextEdit. I then saved only the WordRef cookies. If anyone wants to try replacing their own WordRef cookies with a copy of mine, to see if this cures their problem, they only have to email me and I'll send them the edited version.
The WordRef cookies were scattered throughout the file, so I presume that they are listed chronologically. You'd probably need to edit out all your own WordRef cookies before inserting the new ones.


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## maxiogee

Last night I upgraded my Mac's OS to the latest versionette —> 10.4.8 This required a restart.

Co-incidentally or not, I found that on my next visit to WordRef I had been forgotten and had to log-in again.
I also note that I see to have lost 2 of the .wordreference.com cookles, as I am down to 8 and still have four from .forum.wordreference.com.
I'll need to two things to check this out properly -- 1) leave WR and come back to it without quitting Safari, and 2) quit Safari and re-launch it and come back to WR and see what happens.

More anon.


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## maxiogee

Okay, now the matter is serious and is screaming for attention —> it's affecting me! 

I closed the Safari windows and returned then to WR and it remembered me.
Then I quit Safari and re-launched it. It had forgotten me - within one minute. And there I was, labouring under the illusion that every member is precious, and to be cherished! Pshaw I say, pshaw!

Let's hope that vB doesn't stand for "verily Banjaxed"!


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## rsweet

The problems all sound the same. In the past WR was able to rewrite the cookies necessary to recognize Mac Safari & Firefox users. Now, if the cookies are deleted--by reinstalling OS & Safari, by deleting cookies, by resetting Safari--they cannot be rewritten, and members need to sign in after quitting Safari. 

I've tried every trick I can think of without success. There are two other sites I regularly go to--Netflix and Pet Adoption Portal--and my login userid cookies are rewritten after deletion.

Any glimmers as to what changed at WRF?


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## mkellogg

Can some of you with these problems go to http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ to test if you are affected there?  They are running the same software (though they have the upgrade to 3.6.2 that I plan to implement tonight).

BTW, I recommend Firefox for Macs.  It is a much more up-to-date browser.


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## rsweet

Well I haven't had any success with Safari, but Firefox is working now. In the preferences dialog, make sure that you choose Keep Cookies until they expire. I also set the WRF in the exceptions, but don't know if that's really necessary.


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## calembourde

It could just be that upgrading the OS deletes the cookies, but I also wonder if 10.4.8 installs a newer version of Safari, and it's only this new version of Safari (combined with this particular version of vBulletin) that doesn't keep the cookies.

Rsweet, did you register at that URL or did you try to log in using your WR details? I have registered at the other board but I haven't received the email confirmation yet so I haven't tried it out.


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## mkellogg

After I upgrade the forums (hopefully tonight), let me know if things are still not working and I'll investigate further. (Forum version is at the bottom of this and every forum page.  We will be going to 3.6.2.)


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## rsweet

I logged into the other URL and Safari didn't toss its cookies.  I'll check back after Mike upgrades.


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## maxiogee

calembourde said:


> It could just be that upgrading the OS deletes the cookies, but I also wonder if 10.4.8 installs a newer version of Safari, and it's only this new version of Safari (combined with this particular version of vBulletin) that doesn't keep the cookies.


My Safari (Sorry Mike but I really prefer it to Firefox, which was always 'buggy' for me) is version 2.0.4 - and is copyrighted 2005.

I didn't quit Safari last night, but put the computer to sleep and I still had to sign in this morning.


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## cuchuflete

Well Tony,
That's what you get for being trendy, up-to-date, with it....
My Safari, never driven over 110 mph, is copyright 2003, V1.0.3, and has never had an oil change, but stays signed in.  There must be something magical about the dirty old oil.  Do you think it might have something to do with the backdated stock options at Apple?  

Firefox and vB3.6.1. have had their disagreements...Let's see if they are still around in 3.6.2.


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## mkellogg

I upgraded the forum software last night. It didn't magicly fix the problem by any chance, did it?


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## lsp

cuchuflete said:


> Well Tony,
> That's what you get for being trendy, up-to-date, with it....
> My Safari, never driven over 110 mph, is copyright 2003, V1.0.3


I'm on 2.0.4 (call me crazy!) without a snag.


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## rsweet

Just an update.

I'm running Safari 2.0.4. 

As of this morning, www.vbulletin.com writes a userid cookie and I am able to quit Safari, open it at a later time, and remain logged in. 

forum.wordreference.com does not write a userid cookie and I have to login each time I reopen Safari.


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## calembourde

I still don't get the userid cookie from this board (I never got the confirmation email for the other board, so I can't check there.) But if rsweet can log in to that one, the only explanation I can think of is a difference in settings between the two boards.

I'm on Safari Version 2.0.4 (419.3) by the way. Perhaps somebody on an older version could delete the cookies and see if they get them back again.


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## rsweet

Here's a cookie comparison of the two sites.


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## mkellogg

OK, I've requested support from vBulletin.  Let's see what they say.


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## calembourde

I found the welcome email from the vBulletin board in my spam mailbox, and I've logged into it. Like rsweet, I get the cookies and I stay logged in.

It's a long shot, but I wonder if it could have anything to do with the domain for the cookies (.wordreference.com) not being exactly the same as the one the forums are on (forum.wordreference.com.) Barring configuration differences that I am not in a position to see, that's the only difference between the two sites. I would assume that a cookie for .wordreference.com is supposed to work with anything.wordreference.com, but obviously there's a bug somewhere so maybe it has something to do with that.


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## maxiogee

I have forgotten the exact reasons why I had stopped using Firefox, so I rekindled it, and made sure that I had the latest coals to burn - version 1.5.0.7
I have not been forgotten when I restart it, but the threads seem to forget that I have read them. Threads to which I have been the last poster have shown up as unread.


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## rsweet

Mike,

Tried test to old server (also vbulletin & current WRF) 10-7-06 10:30 pm PDT and the three sites I tested are all writing cookies the same. I'm posting here, because I don't see an option to send an attachment via PM. Here's a screen shot of the way cookies are written in Safari.


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## mkellogg

So rsweet, does "remember me" work after you tried the latest test on the old server? It seems to have succeeded in writing the cookies.


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## rsweet

No, it doesn't remember me. Although it does write some cookies, it doesn't write the crucial bbuserid and bbuserpassword cookies that vbulletin does. Vbulletin.com does remember me. Sorry, that's what I was trying to say with the screenshot of cookies.


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## calembourde

It remembers me again! And I have the cookies!

I wonder if it was some weird daylight-savings-related effect. Or Halloween... spooky.

Weirdly, the bbpassword and bbuserid cookies have an expiration date of 29/10/07 11:02, which means they ought to have already expired, but it tallies well with the daylight savings hypothesis. Perhaps they previously had the wrong time/timezone on the expiration date and so expired immediately.


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## maxiogee

Whoopeeeeeee!

I don't know who did what, but I thank them anyway.  Take a bow!

I no longer have to sign in each time I visit.
This happened sometime yesterday, at least that's when I became aware of it.

In grateful appreciation and which a glass of apple-juice in hand, I raise my slice of Hallowe'en barm brack (I still haven't found the ring!) to you.

--edit--
calembourde, did you say "spooky"?


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## fenixpollo

It happened for me, too! Very, very strange.


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## rsweet

Woooo woooo. It remembers me, too!!


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## mkellogg

Yeah!  Glad to see it guys!

I was feeling guilty that I couldn't find an answer to your problem, but it seems that in trying to solve another problem (forum server stability) I solved this one too. 

The solution?  I upgraded to a newer version of PHP around the same time as calembourde's cookie.  Yes, the forum _seems _more stable, too.


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## Outsider

My problems logging in have gone away, too. Thanks.


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## Nunty

Doesn't it like nuns? I still have to log in each time I visit or if I've been inactive for the half hour or whatever. (Firefox)


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## rsweet

Hi Nuntranslator  

I think you need to set the preferences to keep cookies in Fire Fox. Here's a screen shot of settings on my Mac. I'm not sure what it looks like on a PC.

Hope this works!


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## Nunty

Thank you, rsweet. I have cookies set. It's no big deal; the browser fills in my username and password and I just click on the login button. But it's odd that I have to do that when others do not.


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## maxiogee

Have you not got a check-box button beside the log-in and password window, which calls itself either "remember me" or "stay logged in"? This is what does it for me. If I uncheck that I have to enter the details each time — but, like rsweet and others, I use a Mac, as I am frightened of the Gates of Hell!


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## Nunty

Of course I do, and it remains checked. 

I suppose it's just that, as a sentinel at the Gates of Hell, one must expect these slight inconveniences.

Like I say, no biggie. It slows me down by about 90 seconds, which is not all the significant in the greater scheme of things.


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## Nunty

Well, I did the cache-clearing, cookie-deleting thing, and now I am remembered and don't have to re-log in. Nice!


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## Hockey13

And your two posts were posted precisely 24 hours apart...happy coincidence or nun conspiracy??


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## maxiogee

Hockey13 said:


> And your two posts were posted precisely 24 hours apart...happy coincidence or nun conspiracy??



Presenting the world's first robo-nun - programmed to do certain tasks at the same time every day.


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## maxiogee

I'm adding this query to this thread as it is a related issue.
If any Mod feels it merits being split off onto its own place please feel free to do so.

If I log out and lon in again, threads I haven't visited are marked as having been read - they lose their 'new posts' icon and get a 'no new posts' icon - even if, prior to logging out, I haven't even visited that particular forum, let alone any of its threads.

Is this a WR feature, or a bug, or am I set up all wrong.

(Yes, I know - why would anyone in their right mind what to log out? Well, I've been checking out the disappearance of the traces of deleted posts when one is not logged in. When I am logged in I see the message "This message has been deleted by Qwerty. Reason: qaz wsx edc rfv ....
But if one is not logged in one doesn't see these traces.


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## Jana337

It is probably a general vB feature (by the way, you don't need to log out; titles get "unbolded" after some cutoff time which I think is sometimes random - I should perhaps test it), and not a very stable one (occasionally, threads you have read remain bold).

Think of it this way: This forum has about 400,000 threads and about 120,000 registered members. It would be immensely demanding for the server to remember whether each of the 120,000 members has read each of the 400,000 threads or not. There has to be a cutoff: Threads older than X hours are automatically considered read.

The administrator may be able to customize this cutoff - I have no idea. But since this is feature is the first to go awry whenever we have server problems - even tiny ones - I have a hunch he may not want to.

All of the above is pure speculation on my part, as usual.


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## maxiogee

Jana337 said:


> It is probably a general vB feature (by the way, you don't need to log out; titles get "unbolded" after some cutoff time which I think is sometimes random - I should perhaps test it), and not a very stable one (occasionally, threads you have read remain bold).


Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with that.



> There has to be a cutoff: Threads older than X hours are automatically considered read.


But I'm talking about 'fresh' posts - within the last two minutes even.

Thanks anyway.


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## mkellogg

I was just thinking about this issue, and the thread pops up.  Strange...

The news is that vB has figured something was wrong with the cookies on Safari and fixed something.  Sometime in the next week, I'll be applying the upgrade to 3.6.5 that has the fix.


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## maxiogee

mkellogg said:


> I was just thinking about this issue, and the thread pops up.  Strange...



Didn't you know Ireland is in The Twilight Zone?


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