# 有闕之方



## Pot-Bouille

Hello again, 
Thank to you all, I am almost done reading my first text in kanbun ever, (17th century, topic : the weather).
However, there are still 2 things that are unclear. 
Here is one: 
闕之方為風雨
Does this mean "it will rain and there will be wind in direction of the gate?" 
Or perhaps I am reading the character 闕 wrong? (I attached a snapshot so you can tell me). 
宜しくお願いします!


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## Wishfull

Hi.
I don't know the kanji.
And I can't find it in my dictionary.

I think it might composed by 門　and 火 and 半.
Or
門、ツ、千、火.

I think it is Chinese.
Other members might be your help, or Chinese form might be your help.


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## YangMuye

I suggest that you post it in the Chinese Sub-Forum.
And more context it helpful. The kanji 方 has more than 40 meanings.

I think it must be 闕. （ In Japanese dictionary, you can search【宮闕】きゅうけつ）
闕 means palace or city's gate. 方 means the or corner or the place around it.


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## Aoyama

闕(ketsu,kochi, Chinese que4or que2) is the most likely possibility.
I would have thought 門+木+火 but that character does not seem to exist.


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## Pot-Bouille

First of all, thank you all for your help, 

Then, context: it's a series of short sentences related to "primitive" weather forecasting. The sentence in question here is: 
月暈風有闕之方為風雨
When there is a halo on the moon, there will be wind and ........

I did not post this in the Chinese forum because I was specifically advised not to.
I was told that 17th century kanbun written by Japanese scholars is so far away from actual Chinese syntax and from Chinese style characters that it would be misleading to try and read it as Chinese.


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## Aoyama

> I did not post this in the Chinese forum because I was specifically advised not to.
> I was told that 17th century kanbun written by Japanese scholars is so far away from actual Chinese syntax and from Chinese style characters that it would be misleading to try and read it as Chinese.


Some piece of advice ... !
The beginning of the proposition is true (Japanese kanbun/漢文 different from Chinese wenyan/文言_) mutatis mutandis _, but not so much for the rest. What are "Chinese style characters" ? It is true that Japanese has developed a few kanjis of its own, but that was not yet the case in the 17th century. Japan borrowed kanjis from Chinese mainly as they were (at the beginning and at that time).
Things evolved later, true.
Further discussion about this would involve 和製漢字,国字 and 国訓 ...
Syntactically, it is true that kanbun is different from wenyan, but not _so much_ for short sentences. Longer texts will be different.
But that discussion is a bit off-topic.


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## Lamb67

月晕主风，何方有阙，即此方风来。——《田家五行·杂占论月》
---by google Chinese sources.


More likely to mean a gap or opening than a high building here.


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## Aoyama

> 月晕主风，何方有阙，即此方风来


interesting.
It should be of course noted here that :
晕 =暈
风 =風
阙 =闕
meaning of verse is not exactly the same, but quite close. Some imitation ?


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## YangMuye

> 月暈風有闕之方為風雨
> When there is a halo on the moon, there will be wind and ........


The translation is right.

月暈:げつうん, a circle of haze around the moon
闕 is a 通假字(当て字) of 缺. 欠け. lack, hole
方: side, position, place, area...
May be 月暈風 is a idiom expression.

月暈風：月暈は風の兆し
有闕之方：闕け有る方
為風雨：風雨為り(is raining, rains)




> Some piece of advice ... !
> The beginning of the proposition is true (Japanese kanbun/漢文 different from Chinese wenyan/文言) mutatis mutandis , but not so much for the rest.
> Syntactically, it is true that kanbun is different from wenyan, but not so much for short sentences. Longer texts will be different.
> But that discussion is a bit off-topic.





> It should be of course noted here that :
> 晕 =暈
> 风 =風
> 阙 =闕
> meaning of verse is not exactly the same, but quite close. Some imitation ?


The Character we use in Mainland China is a simplified version. But it doesn't mean that the meaning of the character also changes. 
文言 is not our native language(it's the spoken language of the people lived 2000~3000 yeas ago). Just like Japanese, Chinese also have to learn it.


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## Aoyama

> The Character we use in Mainland China is a simplified version. But it doesn't mean that the meaning of the character also changes.


Of course. The sign = shows they are _equal._


> 文言 is not our native language(it's the spoken language of the people lived 2000~3000 yeas ago). Just like Japanese, Chinese also have to learn it.


Wen yan is not a spoken language, it is a written language, almost a _dead language _(死語), like Latin. Japanese, Chinese, Koreans (others too) have to learn it. I don't think it is 2000-3000 years old. 1000 at most (and many texts are more recents).
孔夫子 論語is not wen yan (to me).


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## kareno999

Pot-Bouille said:


> First of all, thank you all for your help,
> 
> Then, context: it's a series of short sentences related to "primitive" weather forecasting. The sentence in question here is:
> 月暈風有闕之方為風雨
> When there is a halo on the moon, there will be wind and ........
> 
> I did not post this in the Chinese forum because I was specifically advised not to.
> I was told that 17th century kanbun written by Japanese scholars is so far away from actual Chinese syntax and from Chinese style characters that it would be misleading to try and read it as Chinese.


I think it's actually two sentences. 
月暈,風. 
有闕之方為風雨. 
闕 probably refers to the lunar phase here.


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## Pot-Bouille

kareno999 said:


> I think it's actually two sentences.
> 月暈,風.
> 有闕之方為風雨.
> 闕 probably refers to the lunar phase here.



That makes sense.
Would it be, then, the lunar phase when there is no moon (i.e the new moon) ?


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## kareno999

Pot-Bouille said:


> That makes sense.
> Would it be, then, the lunar phase when there is no moon (i.e the new moon) ?



Not one hundred percent sure but here is my understanding of the second sentence:
the storm happens in the direction of the dark side of the moon (what's the formal way of saying this?)


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## lammn

YangMuye said:


> 闕 is a 通假字(当て字) of 缺. 欠け. lack, hole


 
In fact, 大辞泉 defines 闕け(缺け/欠け/かけ) as:



> １ 完全なものの一部分がなくなること。「月の満ち―」
> ２ かけて、取れた部分。かけら。「瓦(かわら)の―」


 
Note that definition 1 specifically refers to the lunar phase.

The Chinese dictionary I use (朗文中文高級辭典) also has similar definitions for the character 闕.
When it is pronounced as quē, it means:


> 1. 過失,過錯 (mistake)
> 2. 空缺 (lacking, missing, incompleteness, etc.)
> 3. 姓 (surname)


 
Of course, sense 2 should apply here.
An example that pops up to my mind would be 月有陰晴圓闕(缺).



kareno999 said:


> 闕 probably refers to the lunar phase here.


 


Pot-Bouille said:


> Would it be, then, the lunar phase when there is no moon (i.e the new moon) ?


 


kareno999 said:


> the storm happens in the direction of the dark side of the moon


 
闕 is the dark portion of the moon in the lunar phase.
It can range from dark moon(totally dark), to cresent moon (mostly dark), to quarter moon (half dark), etc.


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