# I'm on my way to have my ears cut off



## Chiccca

Ciao a tutti,
avrei bisogno di una mano... Ci sono due persone che stanno parlando, la prima annuncia alla seconda che deve dirle una cosa e la seconda, che ne ha appena sentite di tutti i colori da altre persone, dice "I'm on my way to have my ears cut off". La mia interpretazione è che la II persona è pronta a tutto, visto che ne ha sentite di tutti i colori e quindi dice qualcosa del tipo " Dimmi pure, sono pronta a tutto". Sono sulla strada giusta secondo voi? Avevo pensato a "sto far farmi tirare le orecchie", ma onestamente non c'entra molto...
Grazie a tutti.


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## cavillous

Chiccca said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> avrei bisogno di una mano... Ci sono due persone che stanno parlando, la prima annuncia alla seconda che deve dirle una cosa e la seconda, che ne ha appena sentite di tutti i colori da altre persone, dice "I'm on my way to have my ears cut off". La mia interpretazione è che la II persona è pronta a tutto, visto che ne ha sentite di tutti i colori e quindi dice qualcosa del tipo " Dimmi pure, sono pronta a tutto". Sono sulla strada giusta secondo voi? Avevo pensato a "sto far farmi tirare le orecchie", ma onestamente non c'entra molto...
> Grazie a tutti.


 
Non potrebbe invece significare che proprio perchè ne ha già sentite di tutti i colori non è prontare a prestare orecchie ad altre rivelazioni.
(Sono in procinto di mozzarmi le orecchie.Basta non voglio sentire altre storie.)


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## Chiccca

cavillous said:


> Non potrebbe invece significare che proprio perchè ne ha già sentite di tutti i colori non è prontare a prestare orecchie ad altre rivelazioni.
> (Sono in procinto di mozzarmi le orecchie.Basta non voglio sentire altre storie.)


 
Mmmm... potrebbe essere, non ci avevo pensato
Grazie


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## TimLA

Ciao!
A me indica che la seconda persona non vuol sentire tutte l'informazioni dalla prima persona.


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## baldpate

cavillous said:


> Non potrebbe invece significare che proprio perchè ne ha già sentite di tutti i colori non è prontare a prestare orecchie ad altre rivelazioni.
> (Sono in procinto di mozzarmi le orecchie.Basta non voglio sentire altre storie.)


Hai colpito nel segno, cavillous.


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## housecameron

Non voler ascoltare = _tapparsi le orecchie_


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## Chiccca

Grazie housecameron, penso sia la traduzione più azzeccata, insieme a quelle degli altri che mi hanno risposto.
A presto!


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## Tellure

Salve a tutti! 

Piccolo quesito.
Si dice "I'm on my way to have..." o "I'm on my way to having..."? 
O si può dire in entrambi i modi? 

Grazie,
R.


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## Blackman

Secondo me, solo il primo.......


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## Tellure

Ok, grazie mille, Blackman. 

Ho trovato però anche il secondo...


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## Blackman

Allora prova con la frase intera, magari troviamo la differenza.....


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## Tellure

Buongiorno a tutti! 

Ecco alcuni esempi:

 A minor conflict between the Haitian authorities, NGOs and international agencies, while the United States is well *on its way to having* the monopoly on charity. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7006802.ece
As well as giving extra support to the schools on the list, the Department for Children, Schools and Families does say that many of the schools are *on their way to having* results above the 30% level. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7464842.stm
"We increasingly see a picture of an organisation *on its way to going out of business* as a paramilitary organisation, though that might not preclude the maintenance of some form of association for past members," it said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8342644.stm


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## Blackman

Per questo ti chiedevo la frase intera, dove serve a te. In questi contesti mi suona perfetto.


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## Tellure

Quindi entrambe le forme vanno bene. Grazie come sempre, Blackman!


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## xeno....

In English, to say that one is off to have one's ears cut off is kind of idiomatic, indicating that he wishes he were deaf to what he has heard. Both examples @ tellure are acceptable. For example. "I'm just on my way to have/having my hair cut/ears pierced etcetera."


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## Tellure

Thank you, xeno...!


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## mokinga

I think that there is a major distinction between *on its way to have* and *on its way to having*.

The first expression is used with a once-off event eg. *on his way to eat his cake*, *on my way to have my hair cut*, *on our way to greet our parents* etc.

However, the second expression is used with something which will take place over a period of time or which might indicate a new state of affairs, as demonstrated by the first 2 examples in Tellure's quotes. However, the last quote does not sound right. I think it's because "on its way" and "going" both refer to 'heading towards' so it just sounds doubled up to me.  "On its way out of business' would be better.


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## xeno....

No, @ mokinga, I think all three sit well.


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## ALEX1981X

Io propenderei per la struttura con _*"to having*_" anche se penso siano corrette entrambe come dice Xeno !

Un dubbio quindi 

_I'm on my way to do something great !

I'm on my way to doing something great !_ 

Anche in questo caso sono accettabili entrambe le forme ???


Natives datemi una mano !!


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## anglomania1

ALEX1981X said:


> Io propenderei per la struttura con _*"to having*_" anche se penso siano corrette entrambe come dice Xeno !
> 
> Un dubbio quindi
> 
> _I'm on my way to do something great !sto andando adesso - per fare una cosa specifica - più concreta
> 
> I'm on my way to doing something great !_ sto facendo dei progressi, qualcosa sta cambiando, sono sulla giusta strada - più figurato nel senso
> 
> Anche in questo caso sono accettabili entrambe le forme ???
> 
> 
> Natives datemi una mano !!



Hi Alex, 
interesting one this and I warn you I'm not absolutely sure, but going on gut feeling I'd say there IS a difference (I agree with Mokinga here).
I can't help feeling that the infinitive gives the impression of something one-off , whereas the gerund makes me think of something long-term /slow as Mokinga suggests.
Maybe the first is an action the second is a change in state? 

For example, I'd say: 
I'm on my way to have my haircut 
(personally I wouldn't use the gerund here) one-off action

He's on his way to being a great scientist 
(I wouldn't use the infinitive here) a change of state/a development

I'm not sure I've explained myself here

Let me know what you think, 
Anglo

PS I've just reread the thread and realised that what I have written is exactly the same a mokinga!! Can't be a coincidence, surely!!


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## ALEX1981X

anglomania1 said:


> Hi Alex,
> interesting one this and I warn you I'm not absolutely sure, but going on gut feeling I'd say there IS a difference (I agree with Monkinga here).
> I can't help feeling that the infinitive gives the impression of something one-off , whereas the gerund makes me think of something long-term /slow as Mokinga suggests.
> Maybe the first is an action the second is a change in state?
> 
> For example, I'd say:
> I'm on my way to have my haircut
> (personally I wouldn't use the gerund here) one-off action
> 
> He's on his way to being a great scientist
> (I wouldn't use the infinitive here) a change of state/a development
> 
> I'm not sure I've explained myself here
> 
> Let me know what you think,
> Anglo




Maybe the key is that, apart some fixed structure where the gerund is needed, is as you said, off-action or not ...

For example:

I'd say_ : I'm on my way to turning 35_....and _*not*_ _I'm on my way to turn 35_

_I'm on my way on believing you_ instead of  _I'm on my way to believe you...._

It all depends on the kind of verb we're dealing with...if it is a stative verb or a dinamic verb the meaning can slightly change....

Other examples here:  http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=158879

There you go !...Show me your point of view


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## anglomania1

ALEX1981X said:


> Maybe the key is that, apart some fixed structure where the gerund is needed, is as you said, off-action or not ...
> 
> For example:
> 
> I'd say_ : I'm on my way to turning 35_....and _*not*_ _I'm on my way to turn 35_
> 
> _I'm on my way on believing you_ instead of  _I'm on my way to believe you...._
> 
> It all depends on the kind of verb we're dealing with...if it is a stative verb or a dinamic verb the meaning can slightly change....
> 
> Other examples here:  http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=158879
> 
> There you go !...Show me your point of view


Yes, 
that's precisely what I was getting at!!
Anglo


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## xeno....

_I'm on my way to do something great !

I'm on my way to doing something great !_ 

Both are fine. The only difference is that the first implies some definite idea about what that "something" is. While the second is more indefinite. Einstein took up physics and so it was he was on his way to doing something great. Einstein said: I am on my way to do something great in the field of Physics.
I feel anglo is splitting hairs. They can have subtle shades of difference but they can be used interchangeably as shown. Really the mistake people make is to look for iron rules, when really context shows that language in English is versatile. As Alex guesses, you need to look at each verb independently. In the example I have quoted there is nuance and interchangeability. In other verbs used similarly, the meaning can change more significantly.


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Cari tutti,
ho seguito la discussione con vivo interesse. Dunque, la forma " on my way to verb" (on the point of doing something) parrebbe essere prossima al nostro "sto per verbare", mentre "on my way to verbing" (in the process of doing something) sarebbe simile al nostro "sto verbando". Per esempio:
1. You're on the/your way to becoming an excellent interpreter = Stai diventando/Sei sulla strada per diventare un ottimo interprete
2. I'm on my way to have my hands cut = sto per farmi mozzare le orecchie/ancora un po' e mi faccio mozzare le orecchie.
Mi sembra una cosa plausibile. Anch'io, pur non essendo anglofono nativo, condivido la _sensazione_ di Anglo. Si tratta però d'una _sensazione_, e quindi il lavoro, per me, non finisce lì: ora si tratta di _giustificala_, questa sensazione, cercando di capire cosa succede "nella testa", diciamo così, del parlante nativo che questa sensazione _ce l'ha_. E magari anche investigare _perché_ la "grammatica interiore" di xeno contiene norme diverse. E' questo il bello!
Un caro saluto.
GS


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## xeno....

Such a dignified man Giorgio... In English we do not learn grammar. We learn what can be said and what cannot. So, I myself will just consider the pool of possibilities available to me. Rules tend to have exceptions and one of the best ways to learn is through examples. To explore the possible dimensions of usage. Often natives are too quick to say something is wrong, when in fact it isn't so clear cut and I suggest it is a good thing for a non-native to learn English the way we do....not rule-based, but context-driven learning.
I am about to do my nut! I am about to lose my temper.
I am well on my way to doing my nut. I am getting angrier and angrier.


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## ALEX1981X

So Xeno you think that

_I'm on my way on believing you_  and   _I'm on my way to believe you...._are both acceptable but with a different meaning ??..or what ??


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## anglomania1

xeno.... said:


> Often natives are too quick to say something is wrong, when in fact it isn't so clear cut


Dear Xeno, 
we meet again!!
Please note, however, that I HAVE NOT said that something is wrong - merely that I WOULDN'T USE IT and that THE MEANING IS DIFFERENT.

For example, if you were going to an exam centre to sit an exam would you say the two forms are interchangeable with no difference in meaning?
I'm on my way to do an exam
I'm on my way to doing an exam

I would only use the first, what about you?

Anglo


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## xeno....

No, I didn't mean you specifically, or I would have named you. Just something some natives tend to.
Your examples anglo indicate a different meaning. As I said, one needs to think concretely of the sentences you want to use because English needs to be picked up that way in my view. I would only use the first like you to say I was going now to do a certain exam. I'm on my way to doing an exam suggests you are in a preliminary phase leadsing up to sitting for an exam Here they are not interchangeable.
@Alex, "I am on my way to believing you" would mean that I am starting to trust your words. "I am on my way to believe you" wouldn't really work because we might say "I am on my way to believe in you."
Your examples help prove my point that sometimes these two forms "geund" and "infinitive" can be both nuanced and interchangeable, othertimes not. You just have to learn them as you go...just like I must with certain Italian structuures... So, ALEX both are acceptable in the way I described.


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## ALEX1981X

xeno.... said:


> @Alex, "I am on my way to believing you" would mean that I am starting to trust your words. "I am on my way to believe you" wouldn't really work because we might say "I am on my way to believe in you."




I agree with the most of you've written ....But sorry Xeno , after your reasoning, I haven't understood if "I'm on my way _*to believe *_you" is correct !...better saying  _I'm on my way to believe *in* you in sum_???

Anyway you agree with Anglo's example above ??

You wouldnt' say,followiing Anglo's context: "I'm on my way to doing an exam"...unless it is a 1 year duration exam,and the continuous form would be the way to go...

What Do you think ??


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## xeno....

I am on my way to do an exam in ten minutes. I am learning how to drive and I am well on my way to doing a driving exam. Do you see the difference? 
I am literally en route to do an exam. I am on my way to doing a degree in physics by studying at college before university. I am now on my way to do an exam at 9 this morning, if I pass I am on my way to doing a degree in Science. 
You would have to include the preposition "in" for your sentence to make sense. Hope you are clearer? 
I agree that in this case, the two examples of anglo are not interchangeable. So you can see you need to be careful, I would avoid looking for a simple rule here, because some verbs work interchangeably and some don't. I am on my way to doing a degree in physics is like saying I will be in a position to do a degree in ....
By "on my way to believe you" do you want to say "I am inclined to believe you"? In that case, you wouldn't use "on my way" rather " I am minded, or inclined". But, if you say, ""I am on my way to believe in you" then it suggests exactly that idea, but you need the inclusion of "in"  for it to work. Without it, it sounds odd.


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## anglomania1

ALEX1981X said:


> I agree with the most of you've written ....But sorry Xeno , after your reasoning, I haven't understood if "I'm on my way _*to believe *_you" is correct !...better saying  _I'm on my way to believe *in* you in sum_???
> 
> Anyway you agree with Anglo's example above ??
> 
> You wouldnt' say,followiing Anglo's context: "I'm on my way to doing an exam"...unless it is a 1 year duration exam,and the continuous form would be the way to go...
> 
> What Do you think ??


Hi Alex, 
I thought about this last night!!! 
I think here we are using the infinitive of purpose - you know, when you say *why *you are doing something:
I'm on my way to the university (why?) to do an exam.
I'm physically going towards the university with the purpose of sitting an exam.

Personally I would never say I'm on my way to doing an exam/a degree.
I'd change the verb, maybe, I'm on my way to *getting *a degree??
I think the verb "do" seems to signify a specific purpose/action in this sentence and if someone said to me "I'm on my way to doing an exam" I would either think they had made a mistake if they weren't a native, or I would be confused!! It would have to be extremely clear what he meant or I'd probably look blank!


I really don't think this is complicated a at all:
infinitive - a specific purpose
gerund - a change in state/ a development / gradual progress

Is this clear?
Anglo


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## xeno....

"I am on my way to getting a degree" suggests you are in the middle of your degree or just started it. Or, I am on my way to getting a cold is similar. 
"My teacher told me if I do well in my exams next week I am well on my way to doing the career in publishing I crave so much". Or, "Once I get my degree in advanced aeronautics, I will be well on my way to doing/getting a postgraduate degree in the same". You can as Anglo suggesta often use "getting" in this type of construction. Where I would disagree with her is that really both "doing" and "getting" are used in ordinary speech. In fact, it is more common (at least where I come from) to hear "doing".
The danger with anglo's formula, is that you will find yourself applying this formula and then making mistakes, because some verbs will not fit into this rulebook so neatly as we found above with some examples. Alex's examples indicated this, for instance. An incremental approach is better than looking for hard and fast rules, since English doesn't work this way in practise.
I am on my way to buy a book...infinitive of purpose. Correct.
I am on my way to buying a book. Gerund. Doesn't have the same meaning as the one above at all. It could mean maybe..."I have been saving my pocket money for ages, so I am on my way to buying a book with it.
I am on my way to refute anglomania  Infinitive of purpose. Correct.I am on my way to refuting anglomania. Gerund. I am in the process, as I write this now, of refuting Anglomania's post....Correct.
I think it can be more nuanced than anglo's formula envisages.


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## Enigmista

Concordo con tutti e 2...sia Anglo che Xeno ...

Un dubbio però con l'esempio: I'm on my way _*to believing *_you

Is this really correct ?? Since the verb "to believe" is a static verb and _*mustn't *_be used in the "ing" form 

What do you natives think about it ?...


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## xeno....

Yes, you can say that, it would be in a context of doubt. "When you first said that  you had seen a ghost I did not believe you. But, now, with all these strange goings on in this house I am on my way to believing you, ( trusting in what you said).                 Here the "to" preposition belongs to the phrase "on my way to."


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Beh, Eni, il tuo *mustn't* è un po' "urlato", anche tipograficamente. 
In realtà non c'è mai nulla di veramente tassativo nelle norme sulla applicabilità dell'aspetto progressivo a certi verbi e non ad altri (similmente all'annosa questione dei sostantivi "numerabili" e non numerabili", d'altra parte). La realtà è che il parlante/scrittore ha dei "gradi di libertà" di cui va sempre tenuto conto per capire la di lui strategia comunicativa. Gli esempi non mancano.
She's resembling him more and more each day 
I'm loving it
My family don't eat egg
Cari saluti.
GS


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## Enigmista

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Beh, Eni, il tuo *mustn't* è un po' "urlato", anche tipograficamente.
> In realtà non c'è mai nulla di veramente tassativo nelle norme sulla applicabilità dell'aspetto progressivo a certi verbi e non ad altri (similmente all'annosa questione dei sostantivi "numerabili" e non numerabili", d'altra parte). La realtà è che il parlante/scrittore ha dei "gradi di libertà" di cui va sempre tenuto conto per capire la di lui strategia comunicativa. Gli esempi non mancano.
> She's resembling him more and more each day
> I'm loving it
> My family don't eat egg
> Cari saluti.
> GS



Sarà Giorgio ! ...era una provocazione infatti ! 

Più studio l'Inglese e più mi rendo conto che le regole presenti nei libri non servono quasi a un c...o !!....le eccezioni esistono ma i testi,anche lo Swan per esempio, non ne fanno neanche un minimo cenno..e tu lo sai bene immagino !....non capisco da quali testi bisogna prendere le informazioni più attendibili se non da WR 

Condividi collega??


P.s: Quindi,visto che parliamo di stative verb, è giusto dire : I'm on my way to loving your plan "  ???


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## anglomania1

xeno.... said:


> The danger with anglo's formula, is that you will find yourself applying this formula and then making mistakes, because some verbs will not fit into this rulebook so neatly as we found above with some examples.


Hi there, 
As I've said before, the simplified formula I've tried to give (to help our Italian colleagues get their head round this!!) is:
infinitive - specific purpose
gerund - gradual process/change of state

I think a concrete example of where someone could make a mistake by applying this "rule", as you call it, would be extremely useful.
Can you give us one please?
Thanks

As for the phrase "I'm on my way to believing you" that Enigmistica specifically asked us about...
Well, I have to say, it wouldn't be a phrase that would naturally flow from my lips!! I'd probably say something much simpler like "I'm beginning to believe you" - doesn't that sound much better? Or Xeno's I'm inclined to believe you, would be good, too.

But then, I'm a simple soul
Anglo


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## Enigmista

anglomania1 said:


> Hi there,
> As I've said before, the simplified formula I've tried to give (to help our Italian colleagues get their head round this!!) is:
> infinitive - specific purpose
> gerund - gradual process/change of state
> 
> I think a concrete example of where someone could make a mistake by applying this "rule", as you call it, would be extremely useful.
> Can you give us one please?
> Thanks
> 
> As for the phrase "I'm on my way to believing you" that Enigmistica specifically asked us about...
> Well, I have to say, it wouldn't be a phrase that would naturally flow from my lips!! I'd probably say something much simpler like "I'm beginning to believe you" - doesn't that sound much better? Or Xeno's I'm inclined to believe you, would be good, too.
> 
> But then, I'm a simple soul
> Anglo



Ok Anglo...Did you have a look to my previous post ??

What do you think ??

Look at my last doubt !


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## anglomania1

Enigmista said:


> P.s: Quindi,visto che parliamo di stative verb, è giusto dire : I'm on my way to loving your plan "  ???


Ciao Enigmistica, stavi parlando di questo?
Beh, che dire... Io non lo direi e sicuramente non lo scriverei.
Ma non è proprio sbagliato perché si capisce che inizia a piacerti questo piano.
Lo vedo bene usato dai nostri colleghi nordamericani- sono più flessibile con la lingua!
Poi, detto da un americano può suonare bene, detto da uno straniero può suonare strano.
Io preferirei sempre (essendo britannica!) un semplice "I'm beginning to like your plan."  A te la scelta!
Hope this helps
Anglo


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## Enigmista

anglomania1 said:


> Ciao Enigmistica, stavi parlando di questo?
> Beh, che dire... Io non lo direi e sicuramente non lo scriverei.
> Ma non è proprio sbagliato perché si capisce che inizia a piacerti questo piano.
> Lo vedo bene usato dai nostri colleghi nordamericani- sono più flessibile con la lingua!
> Poi, detto da un americano può suonare bene, detto da uno straniero può suonare strano.
> Io preferirei sempre (essendo britannica!) un semplice "I'm beginning to like your plan."  A te la scelta!
> Hope this helps
> Anglo


"

It does help...So you too think that a stative verb like "to believe" can sometimes be used in the "ing" form    ?....

Do you agree with Giorgio's reasoning then ??


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## anglomania1

Enigmista said:


> "
> 
> It does help...So you too think that a stative verb like "to believe" can sometimes be used in the "ing" form    ?....
> 
> Do you agree with Giorgio's reasoning then ??


Hi there, 
dire che una cosa è sbagliata è sempre un rischio.
Però vorrei dire a tutti che è un rischio ancora più grande far credere che va bene tutto!!
Come ho detto prima, io non userei mai la frase sopra con "believe" nella "ing form".
 Infatti, l'unica volta che userei "believing" sarebbe forse nella frase "seeing is believing", che è un modo di dire, in questo caso il verbo diventa sostantivo, giusto?
Non mi piace neanche "I'm loving it" - sai quanti studenti mi hanno chiesto se è giusto? Infatti, gli consiglio di non copiare questa frase mettendo altri verbi simili nella "ing form", se no, rischiano di fare errori.
Ma chi sono io, un semplice insegnante d'inglese per discutere con i big che hanno inventato questa frase?
Dovremmo chiedere a nostri amici americani se questo uso di ing con questo tipo di verbo è normale.
Per esempio dicono "I'm believing you", "I'm understanding you", "I'm needing you" ecc? Spero proprio di no!!
Comunque, per me le regole ci sono e rimangano e non dobbiamo confondere "artistic licence" con "errori".
I libri di grammatica dicono di non mettere questi verbi nella forma ing, tranne in casi molto particolari. A leggere questo thread mi sembra che va bene tutto e sempre! Non mi meraviglio che sei confuso!!

In conclusione:
believing userei soltanto come sostantivo, a meno che nessuno riesca a darmi un esempio comune, usato e giusto di un altro tipo.

Does this explain my position? Remember it's only my opinion
Anglo


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## xeno....

I think an example would be @anglo the sort of construction you were debating with enigmista, as you say it is not as he originally phrased it, something which makes immediate sense, so I added the preposition "in" to make it intelligible.
I would not advocate that everything bis permissible, as I told enig, I am on my way to believe you sounds odd, but I am on my way to believing in you is intelligible, perhaps it is americanized, but English is de facto hybrid, except for a few purists perhaps. I watch british and american tv in turn and I do use Americanisms. 
Language is eclectic nowadays. As for examples @anglo....were there not some given above? It seems to me...I am on my way to doing a Masters would be an example, of course, you would not care to say it, but others would, particularly, maybe Americans. When you said i would rather say "I am on my way to getting a masters, you showed you actually knew what I was saying, but that you had a stylistic preference for a different verb.


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## Enigmista

Mah ragazzi...aspettiamo anche l'intervento di Giorgio in merito...
Quali sarebbero queste eccezioni dove si può usare la "ing" form per i stative verbs ?
Concordo con la licenza poetica certo Anglo !....ci sono troppe libertà a volte

Adoro l'inglese ma a volte la troppa flessibilità nell'uso della lingua e la presenza/assenza di regole mi fa adorare maggiormente il mio italiano 

Che dire !! Aspettiamo il parere di tutti i natives che vorranno dare il loro parere in merito  


Grazie a tutti


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## anglomania1

Enigmista said:


> Concordo con la licenza poetica certo Anglo !....ci sono troppe libertà a volte
> 
> Adoro l'inglese ma a volte la troppa flessibilità nell'uso della lingua e la presenza/assenza di regole mi fa adorare maggiormente il mio italiano
> *Da fastidio anche a me!! *


Hi Xeno, 
you mean these examples then?
"@Alex, "*I am on my way to believing you*" would mean that I am starting  to trust your words. "I am on my way to believe you" wouldn't really  work because we might say "*I am on my way to believe in you*."

They don't fit my formula (infinitive=purpose and gerund=change of state) because the second example isn't an action? Is this what you mean?

All I can say is that I would never say "I am on my way to believe in you" in any circumstances! And I've already said I wouldn't use the first one either.
I'm beginning to think we speak a different language!!
Anglo

PS how would you explain the difference in meaning between the two sentences above? 
Or should I have said "how would you explaining....."


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## xeno....

There are ways that are intelligible, but not preferable. As a native I would just say "I am startiing to believe you". I merely pointed out to Enig that to say "I am on my way to believe you" makes no sense at all, is unintelligible. If you add the "in" it starts to resemble some kind of meaning...it is poetic, metaphoric, but intelligible, poetry is based around such looseness of language and we fill in the gaps and find the inner meaning, thus in a poem, "on my way to believing in you" would indicate a journey from distrust to faith...
Enig is right, English is highly fluid and it can be frustrating, but every language has its trials and tribulations....
Infinitive - specific purpose.
Gerund - gradual process/change of state.
The second example would be a change of state. I am on my way to believing in you ...the two examples were (1) I am on my way to believe you...(unintelligible) and (2) I am on my way to believing in you (explained above).


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## anglomania1

xeno.... said:


> There are ways that are intelligible, but not preferable. *For me intelligible is preferable!! Language is communication - if it's intelligible you get your message across! Why would intelligible not be prefereble?*
> As a native I would just say "I am startiing to believe you". *So far, we agree!*
> I merely pointed out to Enig that to say "I am on my way to believe you" makes no sense at all, is unintelligible. *It's not unintelligible to me - it just sounds wrong, but I'd get the meaning. I don't see how it's any more unintelligible than "I'm on my way to believing you"  - but then, I'm a teacher and it's my job to makes sense of people's mistakes*If you add the "in" it starts to resemble some kind of meaning...*well, if you add the "in" it just changes the meaning. Don't you think to believe someone and to believe IN someone are different?* it is poetic, metaphoric, but intelligible, poetry is based around such looseness of language and we fill in the gaps and find the inner meaning, thus in a poem, "on my way to believing in you" would indicate a journey from distrust to faith...*But in poetry,  music and art everything is permissible, but I don't see how that helps the forum users much. I mean, should poetry be set up as an example or as an exception? The risk of confusion is high!*
> Enig is right, English is highly fluid and it can be frustrating, but every language has its trials and tribulations....
> Infinitive - specific purpose.
> Gerund - gradual process/change of state.
> The second example would be a change of state. I am on my way to believing in you ...the two examples were (1) I am on my way to believe you...(unintelligible) and (2) I am on my way to believing in you (explained above).


Hi Xeno, 
I still don't see any concrete example of how my "formula" could lead into error. Am I being thick here? Please treat me like an idiot and point things out to me - I won't be offended (people often treat me like an idiot!!)
Anglo


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## johngiovanni

This is an interesting thread.  Just to make one or two observations...Distinguishing between so-called "stative" verbs and "dynamic" verbs and "incohative" verbs is not always easy.  I looked at a list of so-called stative verbs on one website and of the dozen or so examples, all of them could be used even in the present tense with the "-ing" ending.  Then there is the possibility of arguing that a verb like "believe" can be sometimes "stative" and sometimes "dynamic".   After "I am/ You are (etc) on my/ your (etc) way to...X" where X is a future state, _I am thinking that_ X could be a phrase beginning with the gerund with all the so-called stative verbs I have seen listed so far including "to know".  One verb that seems at first sight to be strange in the present tense with the -ing ending is "to know" - "I am / You are knowing that this is a useful forum" sounds odd, whereas "I am believing that..." does not.  (Perhaps you would say that "believing" here is now a dynamic verb.)  Perhaps I am _on my way to knowing_ more about these distinctions and nuances?


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## ALEX1981X

Ragazzi devo dire che Enigmista ha ragione con il suo discorso..

L'Inglese è molto illogico e i libri pure...si raccontano cose che poi i natives dicono che risultano essere "non-accettabili"...

Nel forum solo Italiano è rarissimo trovare uno che dice che una cosa è giusta o accettabile e un altro che dice nettamente il contrario 


Ma come è questa storia che in Uk non vi insegnano la grammatica ??

Ma che diavolo vuol dire ?? ....mi auguro che tutti gli inglesi  parlino almeno lo stesso tipo di Inglese...altrimenti un learner non sa a chi deve dare retta
 !

Io vedo molte/troppe eccezioni riprendendo questo thread !

*Believe* è uno stative verb ma spesso è usato in modalità dynamic; per esempio ho trovato il titolo di un libro scritto cosi:

*Believing* in God....poteva essere scritto to believe in God e sarebbe corretto uguale, forse con un leggerissimo cambio di significato

Bella discussione !  Grazie a tutti


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## xeno....

Intelligibility concerns whether a statement makes sense at all. Thus, qualifying as language per se. But among linguistic choices that are avaliable to us we have preferences, for example to say something colloquial or maybe in Ae rather than Be. Preferences narrow down the range of possibilities of intelligible linguistic usage. I assume you can follow so far?
In poetry, music and art everything is not possible. What makes you think language is rendered lawless in poetry etc? It just takes liberties, so-called "artistic licence". The use of verbs in a metaphoric sense is such a poetic liberty...
I was responding to an example given by Enigmista, I did not produce an artistic example myself. He asked if it was correct. I indicated how it might be intelligible, sometimes you  only get a sufficiently comprehensive answer if you provide an equally sufficiently comprehensive question.
When you say (1) it is not intelligible, but (2) it is just wrong, but (3) you get the meaning, well that to me is unintelligible. Perhaps you could share the meaning with me? Since, I am on my way to believe you sounds grammatically incomplete. I am on my way to meet you is intelligible because of its familiar structure. Because this sort of sentence works well with verbs of action like to meet, to see, greet, inform etc. When the verb is a verb of mood then this structure starts to struggle a bit, and then we enter into metaphor and the realms of art. Thus, we can say things like I am on my way to meet my demons. I am on my way to meet my fortune. These are intelligible in a metaphoric sense, but not everything is permissible as you imply I think is the case. Some verbs do not admit of meaning even metaphorically within certain structures. 
I am on my way to greet my fortune is just silly, because while we do meet metaphorical demons and the like we do not greet fortunes and this possibility doesn't exist even in metaphor. Language has limits.
Johnny indicates the complexities, which is why I avoid being too strict with rules, since I prefer to learn on a case by case system. With some verbs being stative, dynamic or inchoative and some being more than one of these it can be complicated. I am glad I speak it already!


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## anglomania1

xeno.... said:


> Intelligibility concerns whether a statement makes sense at all. Thus, qualifying as language per se. But among linguistic choices that are avaliable to us we have preferences, for example to say something colloquial or maybe in Ae rather than Be. Preferences narrow down the range of possibilities of intelligible linguistic usage. I assume you can follow so far?*Yes, thanks!*
> In poetry, music and art everything is not possible. What makes you think language is rendered lawless in poetry etc? It just takes liberties, so-called "artistic licence". The use of verbs in a metaphoric sense is such a poetic liberty...*If someone can shit in a can and call it art - I'd say everything's possible!! Would you ever criticise a poet for changing round word order, or a singer songwriter for saying "he don't" instead of "he doesn't"? It's grammatically wrong but in art it's permissible.*
> I was responding to an example given by Enigmista, I did not produce an artistic example myself. He asked if it was correct. I indicated how it might be intelligible* so was that a "yes" or a "no" to his question "is it correct?" Not to be pendantic but I feel it's the basis of this whole discussion.*, sometimes you  only get a sufficiently comprehensive answer if you provide an equally sufficiently comprehensive question.
> When you say (1) it is not intelligible, but (2) it is just wrong, but (3) you get the meaning, well that to me is unintelligible. Perhaps you could share the meaning with me?* sure - go back and read my post more carefully - I  said (2) and (3) but not (1)! My students often say things that are (2) wrong  but I still (3) get the meaning. Maybe you should answer my posts point by point like this - it avoids confusion.* Since, I am on my way to believe you sounds grammatically incomplete. I am on my way to meet you is intelligible because of its familiar *(?) It's intelligible because it's correct! *structure. Because this sort of sentence works well with verbs of action like to meet, to see, greet, inform etc. When the verb is a verb of mood then this structure starts to struggle a bit, and then we enter into metaphor and the realms of art. Thus, we can say things like I am on my way to meet my demons. I am on my way to meet my fortune. These are intelligible in a metaphoric sense, but not everything is permissible as you imply I think is the case*If this was poetry it would be permissible. PS I don't like poetry!!*. Some verbs do not admit of meaning even metaphorically within certain structures.
> I am on my way to greet my fortune is just silly, because while we do meet metaphorical demons and the like we do not greet fortunes and this possibility doesn't exist even in metaphor. Language has limits.
> Johnny indicates the complexities, which is why I avoid being too strict with rules, since I prefer to learn on a case by case system.*  I think the point is that you can afford not to be too strict with rules as you are native - non-natives don't have this luxury * With some verbs being stative, dynamic or inchoative and some being more than one of these it can be complicated. I am glad I speak it already!*Me too!*



Thanks for a great debate Xeno!


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Ciao, Eni.
scusa il ritardo: condivido, condivido... ...
GS


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## xeno....

The sentence I am on my way to believing you, as it stands, to me, is a bit odd sounding. But, we need to ask Enigmista what he thinks it means since he conjured it up?  By the way. @Anglo, when you colour around my text it makes me feel like you want to be my teacher?  Do I get lines or a gold star? 
It is true a poet has huge freedom, but certain metaphorical uses of verbs have slipped out of the purely rarefied atmosphere of "poetry" to the world of real language, used in an everyday way. Not just the poet will understand what it is to confront one's demons, for instance.
Rules are useful. I do not discourage their use. What I say is that beyond simple rules you cannot dispense without working through the meanings one by one. You have to do alot of memorising when you learn a language. Rules may seem like a simple shortcut, but since rules can have exceptions it is tricky at times. I do not offer rules. You are brave Anglo to do so....


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Dear all,
much has been said and some of us will now have a lot of interesting material for reflection. 
Someone complained that, in English, exceptions (seem to) outnumber rules. This is a figure of speech, of course: we know that if a language were full of exception a native child would never get to the point of "making sense" of it. Ever.
I believe that if a language seems to contain an unbearable number of exceptions, we should consider the possibility of investigating the grammar of that language in greater depth. If a given "rule" of the grammar seems to be able to account for only a certain number of sentences -- leaving the "unruly" lot to the realm of teratology, then we are confronted with an explanatory "deficit". Consequently, we are called on to find higher-level rules which will account for the largest possible number of linguistic "monsters".
All the best.
GS


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## cecil

>>I'm on my way to loving your plan 

>>Lo vedo bene usato dai nostri colleghi nordamericani- sono più flessibile con la lingua!

Hmm. I have never read nor heard this expression before. "I'm beginning to love your plan" is certainly very natural in AE. For what it's worth, I marvel at the acceptance of "I'm on my way to do an exam." Never heard that phrase either. "I'm on my way to take an exam," yes, as long as one is walking, driving to the location of the exam site. I'm with Xeno to a point: English is best learned by exposure to expressions, just as I've found to be the case with Italian, insofar as I understand it (which I don't claim is very well). 

BTW, "I'm on my way to have my ears cut off" is a colorful expression I've never heard before, but it makes the point with wit which would be well understood by an AE native.


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## anglomania1

xeno.... said:


> The sentence I am on my way to believing you, as it stands, to me, is a bit odd sounding. *Aaahh! Finally!! *But, we need to ask Enigmista what he thinks it means since he conjured it up? *Why? He's not a native - that's why he asked us!* By the way. @Anglo, when you colour around my text it makes me feel like you want to be my teacher?*I believe it is the clearest way to answer you poin tby point. Sometimes when you answer me I don't know what you are referring to - I hope I have avoided that confusion at least!A lot of foreros use it - I picked it up from others*  Do I get lines or a gold star?*Don't tempt me!*
> It is true a poet has huge freedom, but certain metaphorical uses of verbs have slipped out of the purely rarefied atmosphere of "poetry" to the world of real language, used in an everyday way. Not just the poet will understand what it is to confront one's demons, for instance.
> Rules are useful. I do not discourage their use. What I say is that beyond simple rules you cannot dispense without working through the meanings one by one. You have to do alot of memorising when you learn a language. Rules may seem like a simple shortcut, but since rules can have exceptions it is tricky at times. I do not offer rules. You are brave Anglo to do so...*No, I'm not - it's my job. When a student asks me a question I have to help them get their head round the grammar in the easiest way. I didn't invent them, they're in the grammar books*.



Hi there, 
for Cecil
"For what it's worth, I marvel at the acceptance of "I'm on my way to do  an exam." Never heard that phrase either. "I'm on my way to take an  exam," yes, as long as one is walking, driving to the location of the  exam site."
There are many differences between AE/BE. We say to do/sit and exam. I personally wouldn't say "take" an exam, but it doesn't sound odd to me because I've heard lots of Americans use it. Another of the many AE/BE differences,
Anglo


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## Einstein

I'm on my way to do X = I'm going to a certain place in order to do X

_I'm on my way to doing X _is an idiomatic way of saying that if things continue this way, X will happen.

_I'm on my way to see a psychiatrist (I'm going there) because I'm on the way to having a nervous breakdown._

I think I've only confirmed what Anglo has said.

"I'm on my way to believing you" is possible (the more you explain, the more credible I find it), but I don't think I've ever said it or heard anyone say it.


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## anglomania1

Einstein said:


> I'm on my way to do X = I'm going to a certain place in order to do X
> 
> _I'm on my way to doing X _is an idiomatic way of saying that if things continue this way, X will happen.
> 
> _I'm on my way to see a psychiatrist (I'm going there) because I'm on the way to having a nervous breakdown._
> 
> I think I've only confirmed what Anglo has said.
> 
> "I'm on my way to believing you" is possible (the more you explain, the more credible I find it), but I don't think I've ever said it or heard anyone say it.


Thanks Einstein - how succinct!! Perfect
Anglo


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## johngiovanni

Buorngiorno, Einstein.  Re: "'I'm on my way to believing you' is possible (the more you explain, the more credible I find it), but I don't think I've ever said it or heard anyone say it."  As it's Valentines Day (San Valentino), a reference to the last two lines of the lyric of  _The Only Exception _by Paramore may be appropriate.  "I'm on my way to believing" is used twice.


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## xeno....

I am on my way to see Dr Freud. I keep seeing ghosts, if this continues I think I am on my way to seeing a psychiatrist. I wonder why Einstein missed this possibility?
Infinitive of action for the first sentence, gerund for the second. Nothing Einstein wrote gainsays anything I wrote. 
"I am on my way to believing you makes sense figuratively", but it is not something I have ever heard said myself, but like Einstein, we can gauge what it must mean. As johnny says, it is more poetic than everyday.
I think Johnny's intervention is decisive...well done!


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## Einstein

xeno.... said:


> I am on my way to see Dr Freud. I keep seeing ghosts, if this continues I think I am on my way to seeing a psychiatrist. I wonder why Einstein missed this possibility? I didn't miss anything; I simply said that "I'm on my way to see a psychiatrist" means that I'm going there. Of course, with the other meaning you can say "I'm on my (or better THE) way to seeing a psychiatrist". I have no problem with that.
> Infinitive of action for the first sentence, gerund for the second. Nothing Einstein wrote gainsays anything I wrote. I didn't write to gainsay anyone or anything; I just gave my own view.
> "I am on my way to believing you makes sense figuratively", but it is not something I have ever heard said myself, but like Einstein, we can gauge what it must mean. As johnny says, it is more poetic than everyday. As I said, it's possible. If Johnny has heard it, so much the better.
> I think Johnny's intervention is decisive...well done!


I have no complaint about Johnny's intervention, but I don't think it's decisive. The discussion in the thread is about normal usage. If you can find examples that are less usual, that can be a point of interest, but it doesn't "gainsay" what has been said about general usage. In any case "I'm on my way to believing you" fits in with the general rule that we have excogitated; I only said that this particular example didn't sound common to me. Am I allowed to say so?


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## johngiovanni

Einstein said:


> I have no complaint about Johnny's intervention, but I don't think it's decisive. The discussion in the thread is about normal usage. If you can find examples that are less usual, that can be a point of interest, but it doesn't "gainsay" what has been said about general usage. In any case "I'm on my way to believing you" fits in with the general rule that we have excogitated; I only said that this particular example didn't sound common to me. Am I allowed to say so?


We don't disagree at all. In general terms, though, I don't think we should confine ourselves to normal usage if that means what we know has already been uttered, given that language is so creative and open-ended and today any one of us can come out with a sentence that has never been uttered before. Every day in this forum we discuss expressions we have never heard before.


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## xeno....

I think if it appears in a song it is part of popular culture and fits in with general language. Surely it is all about the fact that we can use the gerund in these sorts of constructions quite freely at times. When I say "I am on my way to do an exam" it is correct. That I am going somewhere to sit an exam. I am on my way to doing an exam, means you are thinking forward to when you will do/sit an exam, because maybe you just enrolled or something. But, colloquially, in some regions, people will say " I'm doing an exam later", or "I'm on my way now to doing my driving test/exam."
In the text books this may be incorrect, but there is often a difference between what the books say and what real people actually say....
All that matters to a foreigner learning English is to learn some rules and to be aware that spoken English can be a little more loose than the textbooks say...following Anglo's recipe is very useful for a learner....my point was merely that there exists this fluidity in English, which natives are aware of and sometimes use.


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## anglomania1

Hello everyone, 
I think this is getting a bit silly, now.
I mean we have all agreed (I think) that it sounds a bit strange to us and is absolutely NOT common. 
I am sure we could find examples of ANYTHING on google if we tried - but I'm not sure it's helpful - especially to our Italian colleagues! They must be wondering what on earth we are all rambling on about.
Why is this discussion still going? I mean nobody has said it's wrong - just that we wouldn't personally use it. Is that not permissible (lot's of worse stuff seems to be)?
Good night everyone and think about it
Anglo


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