# Persian: چنانچه



## seitt

Greetings

A word I have problems with is چنانچه. Is it the same as چنانکه or different? Or perhaps they sometimes mean the same and sometimes don't mean the same? Please, what does it mean here? This is from an old translation of Luke’s Gospel:

http://www.wordproject.org/fa/42/1.htm
1 از آن‌جهت که بسیاری دست خود را دراز کردند به سوی تألیف حکایت آن اموری که نزد ما به اتمام رسید، 
2 چنانچه آنانی که از ابتدا نظارگان و خادمان کلام بودند به ما رسانیدند، 
3 من نیز مصلحت چنان دیدم که همه را من البدایهٔ به تدقیق در پی رفته، به ترتیب به تو بنویسم ای تیوفلس عزیز، 
4 تا صحّت آن کلامی را که در آن تعلیم یافته‌ای دریابی.

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


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## Aryamp

They are two different words with two different meanings. It is wrong to use one where the meaning of the other is intended.

چنانچه = if , in case
example : Call me if(in case) you get in trouble = چنانچه به مشکل برخوردی با من تماس بگیر 

چنانکه = as 
example: as you know= چنانکه می دانید =آنطور که می دانید

I had to search for the English translation of Luke's Gospel to understand the persian version! Yes it seems in this translation چنانچه is wrongly used in place of چنانکه.


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## Qureshpor

According to Hayyim, chunaanche and chunaanke can be synonymous.

چناتچه _(chonan-cheh)_ Conjunction 1. In the event that, if, should... _Syn_. =  & هر گاه || Ex. 
*چنانچه* اطاعت نکند تنبیه خواهد شد If he does not obey, he will be punished. 2. [Common error allowed by usage] As, just as [ = 
چنانکه].


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## Aryamp

QURESHPOR said:


> According to Hayyim, chunaanche and chunaanke can be synonymous.



No in fact the way I see it Hayyim has made it clear that _Chonanche _must not be confused with _Chonanke_. The examples given also correctly demonstrate the meaning of those words and their usage. 

However it also points out to the fact that it's a common error to confuse the two_ (specially in old texts this error is more common, I should have mentioned that)_ I think by "allowed by usage" it wants to say if you come across such a usage don't think you've got the wrong text or there's been a typographic error and so it is justifiable to include "as" for an equivalent in the dictionary because indeed it has been used in such a way .  Nevertheless it's still wrong to take these two words as synonyms.


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## seitt

Many thanks - so are we agreed that in the above text "as, just as" is the correct translation?


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## Aryamp

Yes the english translation is : 
1:1
Since many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things fully attested among us,
1:2 
*as* delivered to us by the original eyewitnesses who became stewards of the word

But if you were to translate from English to Persian you shouldn't say "چنانچه"  . Some particular usage of a word might be a mistake in modern persian while in the classic literature would be an accepted and common norm. But I think this is a case where it's always been a mistake, just more widespread in the past.


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## Qureshpor

Aryamp said:


> No in fact the way I see it Hayyim has made it clear that _Chonanche _must not be confused with _Chonanke_. The examples given also correctly demonstrate the meaning of those words and their usage.
> 
> However it also points out to the fact that it's a common error to confuse the two_ (specially in old texts this error is more common, I should have mentioned that)_ I think by "allowed by usage" it wants to say if you come across such a usage don't think you've got the wrong text or there's been a typographic error and so it is justifiable to include "as" for an equivalent in the dictionary because indeed it has been used in such a way .  Nevertheless it's still wrong to take these two words as synonyms.


Thank you aaqaa-ye-Aryamp for the above explanation. Actually I did manage to follow what Hayyim was implying. Do you know if this word was used in the same way (If, in case) in the Classical language? Like Simon, I too am not very sure about this word. In its usage in Urdu, it means something like "so".


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## Aryamp

QURESHPOR said:


> Thank you aaqaa-ye-Aryamp for the above explanation. Actually I did manage to follow what Hayyim was implying. Do you know if this word was used in the same way (If, in case) in the Classical language? Like Simon, I too am not very sure about this word. In its usage in Urdu, it means something like "so".



I don't remember any particular instance of usage of either of those words to quote right now but I did a bit of googling and came across this weblog of an afghan writer and editor;  he complains about the repeated occurence of this error (using chonanche instead of chonanke)  which makes me wonder perhaps maybe it's a more common mistake in eastern dialects of Persian and perhaps thats why in Urdu it has come to mean solely as "so" !?


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## Qureshpor

^ A few examples.
​​اگر چنانچه نه در اصل و فرع یک شجرند
نهال رمح تو و چوب موسی عمران 

Vahshi

به احتیاط گذر بر سواد دیده من
چنانچه گوشه دامن به خون نیالایی

Salman Savji

 و پیش از رکوب در اصطبل سه روز طبل و بوق و کوس زنند تا اسپان با آن آووازها الفت گیرند تا چون سلطان برنشیند ده هزار مرکب به زین زین و طوق و سرافسار مرصع ایستاده باشند همه نمد زین های دیبای رومی و بوقلمون چنانچه قاصدا بافته باشند

 Nasir Khusrau (Safar  Naamah)​


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## Aryamp

Interesting examples,  the first one اگرچنانچه is a combination that's often used even today, it's the same as a simple 'if' or  'if it's the case'  

The second and third examples show the common error and in my mind I have to read them as "chonanke" so as to make them sound apprehensible for me.


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## seitt

Many thanks to all - btw, how would we pronounce نظارگان in Verse 2, please?


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## Aryamp

نَظّارِگان  nazzâregân = watchers, observers


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## seitt

Much obliged - is the singular simply نظاره (nazzâreh), then?


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## Aryamp

Yes that's the singular. Not to be confused with نِظاره   as in نظاره کردن = to watch


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## seitt

Many thanks, indeed a point worth noting.


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## Qureshpor

Here is an example from Amir Khusrau (1253-1325)

ما هم ز بیت چنانچه دانیم
جهدی بکنیم تا توانیم


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