# Voiced and unvoiced consonant clusters



## Intercalaris

I noticed when there is a consonant cluster with a voiced and unvoiced letter, the letters are often both pronounced as voiced *or* unvoiced.

For example, my mom said "תסגור את הדלת בבקשה" but the תסגור sounded like ti*z*gor
And זכות sounds like *s*khut, and דפיקות sounds more like *t*fikot to me than dfikot

It definitely makes sense that both letters in a consonant cluster in the beginning of a word are pronounced both voiced or unvoiced (I tried to say זכות as *z*khut with a *z* sound and it just doesn't work without a vowel between the first two letters), _but is it necessary that I do the same for consonant clusters that go across syllable boundaries? _

Such the words תסגור and מדפסת; it's easy for me to pronounce them as "ti*s*gor" and "mad*p*eset", as opposed to "tizgor" and "matpeset" in rapid speech. But would it sound _weird_ if I did so in rapid speech? 

Thanks in advance!


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## origumi

As a native, I do not share your observation. It doesn't mean you're wrong, all it means is that I hear the word as it should be and (maybe, unconsciously) ignore pronunciation variations.

The practical conclusion (about your examples above) is that you better try pronouncing by the book, not imitating spoken variations, and the native listener will usually regard it as natural.


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## Intercalaris

origumi said:


> As a native, I do not share your observation. It doesn't mean you're wrong, all it means is that I hear the word as it should be and (maybe, unconsciously) ignore pronunciation variations.
> 
> The practical conclusion (about your examples above) is that you better try pronouncing by the book, not imitating spoken variations, and the native listener will usually regard it as natural.


Makes sense.

I am just really hyper-sensitive to little changes in pronunciation, regardless of the language, for some reason. (Like in American English, when people say "would you" but pronounce it "would jew" haha). It doesn't really interfere with my ability to hear the words for what they are, but just catches my attention.

But you're right

I'll just continue speaking the normal, by-the-book way. These little nuances will probably just come into my speech naturally; no need to force them in


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## airelibre

I've noticed this at times. תזכור and תסגור can sound pretty much identical and you have to understand from context. I wouldn't think too hard about it though. If it happens to you naturally then fine but don't force it.


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## ystab

A well-known example is סבתא (grandma), pronounced safta, instead of savta. It is even more evident when children write it with פ, since they write it as it sounds.


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## Intercalaris

ystab said:


> A well-known example is סבתא (grandma), pronounced safta, instead of savta. It is even more evident when children write it with פ, since they write it as it sounds.


That's a great example.

I always wondered why I called my savta...well...safta.
I mean, sometimes I say savta. But I usually say safta haha


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## utopia

Well I went a little bit too far and called my grandma sapta.


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## hadronic

Voice assimilation in Hebrew is pretty well described by Bolozky. He has a few papers available on the net on that topic. 
At the difference to Slavic languages where it's description belongs to grammar books, assimilation in Hebrew is not mandatory but _widely_ used and completely unconscious.


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> Voice assimilation in Hebrew is pretty well described by Bolozky. He has a few papers available on the net on that topic.
> At the difference to Slavic languages where it's description belongs to grammar books, assimilation in Hebrew is not mandatory but _widely_ used and completely unconscious.



I'll just note that in Slavic languages (or in Russian at least), it is also completely unconscious, even if mandatory.


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