# Skinny Models Banned in Madrid



## mjscott

What do y'all think of that?
Here in the US some of the movie stars are gaunt and have no flesh. And the fashion world has ignored round as a shape--ever since putting Miss Ellie from Dallas in potato sack dresses to parlay with her gorgeous daughters-in-law. All the while this is going on in the States, you'd see perfectly robust women in stylish clothes in the likes of Spanish and Italian movies! _It's not that the clothes can't be made, folks!_

More devaluing of the womanly shape by making her wear unstylish clothes, is the devaluing and mindset of young girls who are trying to find their identity in a world where only the skinny are considered _beautiful._

Bravo, Madrid!


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## Heba

Yes, bravo Madrid. 

The idea of being beautiful only if skinny is a torture to many girls who would spend their entire lives trying to be as skinny as models, thinking of what to eat and what not to eat and depriving themselves of many things. Some girls spend their lives living on a diet in order to remain beautiful, and sometimes, this would lead to health problems.

Here in Egypt, even if you chose not to follow the trend of being skinny, you will find yourself going back to your diet since you would not find anything that would appeal to your taste. Nice cloths are for skinny girls; if you are lucky to find the style you like in your size, you will usually not find the colour.

A few years ago, being skinny was not accepted, but things changed when shops of cloths started to sell very small sizes.


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## Etcetera

Bravo Madrid! 
It was a great decision indeed. To my taste (feel free to disagree with me, if you like!) skinny models look just terrible. Skin and bones, and nothing more!


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## Namakemono

Etcetera said:


> Bravo Madrid!
> It was a great decision indeed. To my taste (feel free to disagree with me, if you like!) skinny models look just *terrific*. Skin and bones, and nothing more!


 
I'm sure the word you wanted to use is "terrible".


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## Etcetera

Namakemono said:


> I'm sure the word you wanted to use is "terrible".


Oh, you're right, of course. Thank you very much!


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## übermönch

A right step, Madrid. I hope more will follow all around the world. In my class a girl was forced to leave school because of anorexia, two of her friends still here don't look much better than her - living skeletons. 'tis really a tragedy. I can't imagine anyone seeing it as beautiful.
Next rightstep'd be to ban FashionTV!


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## Dr. Quizá

You're talking about the same Madrid where the ball-boys and ball-girls of the tennis open have been replaced by models?  At least these are not that skinny.


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## Maja

Well, if that is the case I say 
The fashion of skinny girls has definitely became a HEALTH HAZARD!!! Millions of teenage girls are on their way or already suffer from anorexia or bulimia! 

 Teenage years are the most fragile ones in life cycle. Every teenager goes through a phase when he/she wants to be popular, good looking and have the coolest clothes. 
So parent-talk like "it is the inner beauty that counts" just doesn't hold water!!! Especially if the boy you're in love with, is dating the hottest blondy in school!!!
  So the responsibility lies within society to set the standards that do  not lead to some fatal disease!

I really think that much more has to be done regarding the issue, in every country, as a part of say, the national health strategy. I know that compared to AIDS or cancer, this looks small and unimportant but people DO DIE from anorexia!


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## natasha2000

Yea, bravo Madrid, but after what?
After the last "Cibeles pasarella" suffered scandal because there were models who wore 34! Not even 38 were admitted! The first one who put the limit standard to be 38 was Gaudi fashion week in Barcelona.

Skinny models arew not to blame. Fashion designers are. Girls just do what they ask. And then we are asking ourselves how come that anorexia is so widely spread among young teenagers??????


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## mjscott

On the ABCNews last night, a fashion designer was saying that the whole ban is discriminatory against (she called them) _leaner_ models! I am so in disagreement as to her intent in saying that!

Of course, banning is discriminatory if you can't work--but setting up uber-thin models as the standard to begin with was a trend-gone-bad. Even the models will tell you that most of their bodies are crying out for food. Many have bulimic tendencies because their bodies want the food they eat, but the demands of the runway will not allow it. Rare is the model whose ultra-ultra-thin tendencies are natural. They will be the first to tell you that they'd rather eat sensibly and look more like the regular person off the street rather than a starving heroine addict!


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## LuvDancin

Well, I think the main problem is, that the trend is not being "nicely thin", but extremely underweight. Those girls actually look terrible, I agree! Just a few examples: Vlada Roslyakova, Hana Soukupova, etc. 
In my opinion though, models should be absolutely thiner than the average thin girl, but those trends had crossed the line long time ago. Which doesn't mean they won't change. They will, when on scene enter more normal girls. In fashion, just like in clothes, exist trends about the models, logically. And since this one has been used to its maximum, they should change soon. What happened in Madrid sure is a nice begining, though it doesn't mean much. When they start changing their preferences about models on fashion weeks in Milan, New York, London and Paris, which are much more important, that's when (in my opinion) would be a very good start. 
The idea is cool though, and I am definetely a supporter.


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## natasha2000

LuvDancin said:


> In my opinion though, models should be absolutely thiner than the average thin girl...


 
Please, explain why. I really do not understand.

If models wear clothes destined to all women, normal women are not so thin. They have curves. Usually, women have breasts and butt, something that those skinny models don't have.


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## LuvDancin

Well, that's really a matter of each person's opinion. I agree, normal women are not so thin. But not everyone can be a model, can it? There has to be a line, when we're talkin about high fashion, which is _not_ destined to all women, as you say. Models simply have to look in shape, so the clothes look better on them as well. It has always been like that, and always will. I'm not sayin anorexic, not at all, but healthy and nicely thin.


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## natasha2000

LuvDancin said:


> Well, that's really a matter of each person's opinion. I agree, normal women are not so thin. But not everyone can be a model, can it? There has to be a line, when we're talkin about high fashion, which is _not_ destined to all women, as you say. Models simply have to look in shape, so the clothes look better on them as well. It has always been like that, and always will. I'm not sayin anorexic, not at all, but healthy and nicely thin.


 
But, what is "in shape", for you? Most of the models that I see on catwalks these days look like boys. They don't even have feminine bodies. They can wear V-necked dresses opened up to their belly-button because they do not have any breast to show. They can wear impossible cuts that one woman that looks like a woman (make no mistake: a well proportioned woman, not any woman) cannot wear, because it is simply not cut for her body. This is supposed to be beautiful? Naaa...


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## ireney

It's a matter of whether you see models as human shaped, walking clothes-hangers or pretty women who are of average? weight and the clothes as something that off-sets their beauty.

On another matter, clothes can look good even in chubby women. If the chubby woman is beautiful (it _is_ possible! I have seen some women with some extra kilos who are absolutely stunning) and the clothes are designed to look good on her body both she and the clothes will appear to their mutual advantage.

Has any of you (I am sure many of you have) seen any movie adaptation of J. Austen's novels? None of the actresses there are model like skinny. In fact those clothes (which I really like by the way) would look horrible in a skinny person. Their volume and curves _need and require_ some flesh to look good.


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## Outsider

It seems to me that the aim of fashion shows is to make the clothes look good, not the women who wear them.


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## LuvDancin

Natasha2000 in shape for a model (in my opinion) is looking skinny, but not sick. To still have some kind of "glow". Not looking tired or that she will just drop on the floor and that will be it. I understand what you're trying to tell me, but there's a fine line between looking skinny and looking emaciated. Some girls are actually naturally thin. Gisele for example is clearly athletic with a toned body, even though she is very thin. But she is not falling into the "banned category". To have a BMI under 18, you have to be not skinny, but extremly skinny. There are models that do look healthy (take a look at Doutzen Kroes, isabelli Fontana, Cintia Dicker, etc.), and there are models, who do look like living skeleton (Sasha Pivarova, Vlada R., Snejana Onopka, Lily Cole, etc.). And I agree, it does look terrible.
I don't know if i understand you right natasha2000, are you trying to say that models should look like an average, middle-aged woman? Let's not forget, designers are the ones that are booking the models. It's all about that clothing simply don't look the way they want them to on bigger people. There has to be a line, when it comes to high fashion. They do overreact lately, I do agree with that, loads of models are seriously messing with their health. Stupid girls, and even more stupid industry.
I also want to point out there's not much runway models that influence teenage girls, I don't think. It's the celebrities who have dropped to a size 0, which have in my opinion much much bigger effect. Not many teens follow the runway world that closely, I would be surprised to find the opposite.
 
Ireney I agree, of course clothes can look good on chubby women. But we're talking about models. And it's silly to expect they would look like someone you see on the street. Not everyone can model.


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## natasha2000

LuvDancin said:


> I don't know if i understand you right natasha2000, are you trying to say that models should look like an average, middle-aged woman?


 
Hmm... I would say that you are pretending not understand me, because I have never said that a model should be as a middle aged woman, and for sure not as average. I would not have anything against to see models like Cindy Crafford, or Naomi Campbel, but models a la Kate Moss just give me shivers... Or if we want to go for actresses or singers, a good looking woman is Beyoncee (sorry if I spelled it wrong), or maybe Jeniffer Lopez, or of course, Monica Belucci, but for sure not a skeleton like Mrs. Beckham...
Is this answer clear enough for you and dopes it explain well what I mean when I say " women with curves"? These ladies are not middle aged, and for sure they are not average.


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## mjscott

ireney said:


> It's a matter of whether you see models as human shaped, walking clothes-hangers or pretty women who are of average? weight and the clothes as something that off-sets their beauty.
> 
> On another matter, clothes can look good even in chubby women. If the chubby woman is beautiful (it _is_ possible! I have seen some women with some extra kilos who are absolutely stunning) and the clothes are designed to look good on her body both she and the clothes will appear to their mutual advantage.
> 
> Has any of you (I am sure many of you have) seen any movie adaptation of J. Austen's novels? None of the actresses there are model like skinny. In fact those clothes (which I really like by the way) would look horrible in a skinny person. Their volume and curves _need and require_ some flesh to look good.


 
Clothes on the runway are created as the avant-garde for the upcoming fashion season. Whether or not the average woman can wear what is on the runway (which she can't) or whether she would look good in it if they sized it up (which she won't, because it's designed to look good on the gaunt, skinny model) those styles are used as fashion plates for what will be in the stores in six months to a year.

If models want to model and fashion designers wish to used models as an art medium, that's one thing. Another is being an average woman, (or worse yet, someone who is above average in weight or is petite) and shopping for clothes. Styles were originally designed for the tall, skinny model and are then accommodated to fit all other shapes--_without regard as to whether they look good on all other shapes!_ Why not design for those shapes--rather than the exception?

Developing girls who are close to modeling sizes know what looks good on them. When they see things in the stores, wear them and the girls don't look chic like the models, they begin accommodating their diets so that their clothes fit differently. I see it in young teenage girls.

You ARE a role model if what is being designed for you is going to be what your teenager (or a movie star) pulls off the shelf six months from now!


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## LuvDancin

I'm not pretending anything, I'm just trying to understand you, which I do now, yeah. Though, we are talking about things totally subjective. What's beautiful and what's not is up to everyone of us to choose. Women with figures like Beyonce or J.Lo will never be models, because they should fit to clothes, it's a waste of time to make clothes fit to models. Women like Beyonce have a bit stronger tighs so they need bigger size. But bigger size is also longer, so they have to short it. You know what I mean? Their bodies are not symetrich, with a bit larger breasts or hips, etc. I'm not saying anything is wrong with them, but they don't fit the standards. Putting them in the same basket as Naomi sounds totally unlogical. And as I said, trends have changed, so models like Cindy are not "in" anymore. I think, in the end we both share same opinion more or less. I do agree models have never been as thin as they are getting nowadays, but they should still have thin body. I'm not saying anorexic, healthy thin, that's all.


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## ireney

LuvDancin said:


> [
> Ireney I agree, of course clothes can look good on chubby women. But we're talking about models. And it's silly to expect they would look like someone you see on the street. Not everyone can model.



Of course not. I do agree that not all of us can become model but

a) model is something to be imitated isn't it? So if these models are the models to imitate then we are in deep trouble 

b) those clothes are not designed for art's sake. They are to show how clothes should be (this season at least). I can't see why the models should be well shaped women with a nice firm body that is close (at least!) to that of an average (though not chubby) woman. A dress designed to look good on a woman of average weight can even be sized up AND look good on a chubbier woman.

c) having a larger err.. periphery is not symmetrical? Perhaps by some standards. I know for a fact that the Med type (a gross generalisation but I hope you know what I mean) has larger hips and bosoms in general. Why is this "unsymmetrical"? Who sets the standards? Not men that's for sure 


Clothes are supposed to be made to compliment women not vice versa


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## Daddyo

Haute couture is certainly not a showcase of common daily-life "prêt-à-porter", so that models are not to be confused with any representation of live general-shape women. Just as you wouldn't wear a Chanel cocktail dress to a McDonald's birthday party, you wouldn't have regular women (with hips and breasts, thank God) modeling those clothes.
There have been studies about what is actually "sexy" about men's and women's body, and there seems to be an actual mathematical ratio of hips to breast size (as well as the famous nose-eyebrow-mouth ratio) that appears to indicate fecundity (and, consequently, desirability). Whether the woman in question is a size 16 or a size 2 doesn't seem to matter to our caveman proportional sensibilities. All that matters is: can she push out babies well enough?
Please don't rail at me: it's what it is. Didn't make it up, just enjoy it.


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## natasha2000

LuvDancin said:


> I'm not pretending anything, I'm just trying to understand you, which I do now, yeah. Though, we are talking about things totally subjective. What's beautiful and what's not is up to everyone of us to choose. Women with figures like Beyonce or J.Lo will never be models, because they should fit to clothes, it's a waste of time to make clothes fit to models. Women like Beyonce have a bit stronger tighs so they need bigger size. But bigger size is also longer, so they have to short it. You know what I mean? Their bodies are not symetrich, with a bit larger breasts or hips, etc. I'm not saying anything is wrong with them, but they don't fit the standards. Putting them in the same basket as Naomi sounds totally unlogical. And as I said, trends have changed, so models like Cindy are not "in" anymore. I think, in the end we both share same opinion more or less. I do agree models have never been as thin as they are getting nowadays, but they should still have thin body. I'm not saying anorexic, healthy thin, that's all.


 
We really cannot talk about tastes, you're right. De gustibus non est disputandum, as the old saying says. 

But...

Maybe trends should be changed, for the sake of our children, and for the sake of those models, too. nobody can convince me that all those models are that thin by nature. Maybe some of them, yes. I have friends who are not anorexic at all, but have the figure like those models now. But I simply cannot believe that ALL of them eat as a normal human being and still have that figure of skeleton.

Someone here mentioned fashion as another art expression. Yes, why not? Maybe the whole art is in crisis, so the only uninvestigated field would be fashion. But then, it should be clearly pointed out, it should be clearly said : "Don't try this at your home!" Art fashion should be clearly distinguished from practical fashion (or whatever name it should have). Therefore, models should be different. We cannot forget about our children, and how stupid and easy seduced they can be, even though it was not meant in the first place. And fashion industry, whether they like it or not, has that responsability on their shoulders.

EDIT: Just one small point. Maybe you would consider to change the word "not symmetrical" for JL and Beyoncee.... I think it is really inappropriate...
Because I might be lead to think that symmetrical for you (or for the fashion world) is a woman without a hips and breasts, with the same size around the brest area, weist area and hip area... How boring! Yea... Trends really should be changed....


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## maxiogee

As the whole "fashion" industry is just a way to get people to buy more clothes than they need (when did anyone here last '*wear out'* any garment??) and to sell perfumes and accessories, who here really cares what the 'fashion industry does or doesn't do? Do the doings and sayings of the creatures on the catwalks, those who dress them, or even those who write about them matter to anyone here?

The villains of the piece here are not the models, the designers nor even the magazine publishers, although all bear a share of the guilt. No, the villains here are the folks in the street who think it is important that they be seen to be wearing this season's style, colour or must-have accessory.

At root, it's all just about shifting bolts of cloth.


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## ireney

Tastes do change 

Source of picture of painting


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## Outsider

They weren't trying to sell clothes, though.


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## whatonearth

I think it's kind of ironic really...the Western world is in the grip of a deepening obesity crisis and we're discussing banning models who are too thin!  

As for whether the models should be banned or not...well...I don't know...what is _too_ thin? But I agree it would be nicer to see more models who are normally/healthily slim (whatever that is...)


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## LuvDancin

ireney said:


> a) model is something to be imitated isn't it? So if these models are the models to imitate then we are in deep trouble


I disagree. They are only wearing clothes. And that's the thing, that should be imitated, if you're going to put it like that. With every fashion week designers set some kind of "guidelines", trends. There's no need to follow them all, to be "in". You chose your own likes/dislikes. And most importantly _people don't come on fashion shows to see models_. Their part is simply being a "human hangover", as I think you have mention before, though a bit roughly said. 

Natasha2000 I don't think you even know what you're talking about. I'm not here to anwser you why models are and should be thiner than average women. That's just how it is, get over it. Nothing is wrong with women with curves, but they simply can't be models, that's all. I also don't see, why using a word "unsymetrichal" is inappropriate ... I agree, not ALL of them them eat as a normal human being, maybe you should try reading my posts more carefully, I said there are models that probably not ... It's immposible to look like _that_ naturally. But there are also models who in my opinion look completely healthy. Just by the way, Naomi would also be banned from runways. 
One more thing, who says women with curves can't look good in clothes worn by only thin models? I see Beyonce wearing skinny jeans all the time and she looks okay. It's all up to you to choose what suits you and what not. I personaly think fashion should be all about fun and expressing yourself. Choosing what's best for you, what trends you like, what colours will you wear next season etc. It's fun. 

P.s.: Many thanks to _zebedee_ for adding links


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## natasha2000

LuvDancin said:


> I disagree. They are only wearing clothes. And that's the thing, that should be imitated, if you're going to put it like that. With every fashion week designers set some kind of "guidelines", trends. There's no need to follow them all, to be "in". You chose your own likes/dislikes. And most importantly _people don't come on fashion shows to see models_. Their part is simply being a "human hangover", as I think you have mention before, though a bit roughly said.
> 
> Natasha2000 I don't think you even know what you're talking about. I'm not here to anwser you why models are and should be thiner than average women. That's just how it is, get over it. Nothing is wrong with women with curves, but they simply can't be models, that's all. I also don't see, why using a word "unsymetrichal" is inappropriate ... I agree, not ALL of them them eat as a normal human being, maybe you should try reading my posts more carefully, I said there are models that probably not ... It's immposible to look like _that_ naturally. But there are also models who in my opinion look completely healthy. Just by the way, Naomi would also be banned from runways.
> One more thing, who says women with curves can't look good in clothes worn by only thin models? I see Beyonce wearing skinny jeans all the time and she looks okay. It's all up to you to choose what suits you and what not. I personaly think fashion should be all about fun and expressing yourself. Choosing what's best for you, what trends you like, what colours will you wear next season etc. It's fun.
> 
> P.s.: Many thanks to _zebedee_ for adding links


 

No, I think that YOU don't know what I am talking about. Who gave you the right to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about?
My last post started as an answer to you, but then it transformed to some of my personal thoughts I wanted to expose in this thread. Don't be so presumed to think that I or anyone else are expecting FROM YOU to answer to our questions we are putting here. All of us express our opinions, and your opinion is not more worthy than anyone else's. 
My opinion is that models should be different. Period.
Please do not quote me anymore because I do not wish to continue this ridiculous and superficial discussion with you.


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## LuvDancin

natasha2000 said:


> Who gave you the right to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about?


That's why I said _i think_, you don't know what you're talking about. It's only my opinion. And as you said, we are all here to express them. I didn't mean to offend you or anything like that (I apologize if I did), but I said that based on thing you've said you would like to see more models like Naomi, who is going to be banned as well if this rule sticks out. 



natasha2000 said:


> Don't be so presumed to think that I or anyone else are expecting FROM YOU to answer to our questions


I anwsered to your questions which you have asked me, that's all. (_Please, explain why. I really do not understand.; But, what is "in shape", for you?; Is this answer clear enough for you and dopes it explain well what I mean when I say " women with curves"?;_ etc.) 



natasha2000 said:


> All of us express our opinions, and your opinion is not more worthy than anyone else's.


Of course, I agree. Let somebody please remind me where have I said the opposite.


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## maxiogee

LuvDancin said:


> I personaly think fashion should be all about fun and expressing yourself. Choosing what's best for you, what trends you like, what colours will you wear next season etc. It's fun.



You are confusing fashion with _style_. 
One is all about being told what to wear, 
-- the other is about choosing what to wear.
One is about shifting new clothing out of stores,
-- the other is about wearing something you bought four years ago because it is 'you'.
One is about trying to outdo other people, and have the newest,
-- the other is about being comfortable in what you wear.


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## LuvDancin

I agree, but that's not what I tried to say. I meant as having fun seeing the trends and choosing which I will follow this season and which are not really me, or I wouldn't pull them off, which would suit me etc. 
People who simply follow everything that's being presented are (again, in my opinion) trying too hard, and that's not what fashion is all about, I don't think. 
But that's a whole another topic.


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator note:  Please refrain from personal attacks.  

Thank you for your cooperation.


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