# Jussive / Imperative



## paieye

If you want to ensure that someone to whom you are speaking does/does not do something, what determines the choice between jussive and imperative ?  Is there some simple way of determining which is to be used ? Is the distinction perhaps that the imperative is used only for commanding someone, while the jussive is appropriate for urging, encouraging, warning, &c. ?


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## Tensor78

paieye said:


> If you want to ensure that someone to whom you are speaking does/does not do something, what determines the choice between jussive and imperative ?  Is there some simple way of determining which is to be used ? Is the distinction perhaps that the imperative is used only for commanding someone, while the jussive is appropriate for urging, encouraging, warning, &c. ?



I'm still new to the language myself, but I'll take a stab at your question.

Generally, the imperative is used to deliver a positive command. The Jussive, however, has many functions.  Regarding the issue of command, the Jussive is most commonly used to deliver negative commands. Example:

'uktub = write!
laa taktub = don't write! 

Here you should remember that the imperative has no negative form. If you want to issue a negative command, you must use the Jussive with "laa".

Now, the Jussive has another function regarding the issue of commands. When used alone, the Jussive has a sort of optative function. Example:

yadhhab = let him go/allow him to go

You can also use the Jussive in the second person to deliver a softer type of order. Example:

 taktub = you write!

Those are my two cents. But, you should wait for a more experienced person to come along.


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## paieye

"Here you should remember that the imperative has no negative form. If you want to issue a negative command, you must use the Jussive with "laa"."  I thought that you used the imperative preceded by "lan."

Might the distinction, or the main distinction, be that the imperative is used for specific commands --  do not leave the house until I come back, &c.  -- while the jussive is used for statements that are in the form of a command, but are really in the nature of advice or recommendation --  be careful when you cross the street, remember your mother's birthday, look before you leap, &c. ?

Thank you for helping.


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## Tensor78

paieye said:


> I thought that you used the imperative preceded by "lan."



I have never seen that construction. The _subjunctive_ preceded by "lan" is used to negate the future but has nothing to do the issue of commands necessarily.  



paieye said:


> Might the distinction, or the main distinction, be that the imperative is used for specific commands --  do not leave the house until I come back, &c.  -- while the jussive is used for statements that are in the form of a command, but are really in the nature of advice or recommendation --  be careful when you cross the street, remember your mother's birthday, look before you leap, &c. ?



No such distinction exists as far as I'm aware. If you want to issue a command, use the imperative regardless of whether you're issuing advice or delivering a scathing order. You can soften it somewhat with the Jussive used by itself. However, I don't think that the Jussive is often used that way. When you want to issue a negative command, that is "don't do something!", use the Jussive preceded by "laa".

I'm still new. So, wait for someone more experienced before you move on.


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## paieye

Thank you, most helpful.


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## Tensor78

paieye said:


> Thank you, most helpful.



No problem. I should say, however, that everything that I said pertains to MSA. If you were asking about a dialect, my information my not be accurate. I know nothing about dialects yet.


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## barkoosh

Tensor78 is right in what he said about laa (with the jussive), lan (with the subjunctive), and about the imperative as used in the affirmative only. A few things need to be clarified.

When a verb is in the jussive, you must always have something that makes it that way. The most common thing is particles such as 'laa' (not to be confused with 'laa' of the negation in the present tense), and 'lam'.


> Now, the Jussive has another function regarding the issue of commands. When used alone, the Jussive has a sort of optative function. Example:yadhhab = let him go/allow him to go


I think you're talking here about cases where the jussive is preceded by an imperative. The second verb is in the jussive only if the meaning of the sentence is conditional.


> You can also use the Jussive in the second person to deliver a softer type of order. Example:taktub = you write!


I see nothing here that makes the verb in the jussive. I don't think it's really used this way.


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## paieye

Thank you.


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## Tensor78

barkoosh said:


> I think you're talking here about cases where the jussive is preceded by an imperative. The second verb is in the jussive only if the meaning of the sentence is conditional.



I'm aware of this construction. However, I didn't want to bring it up lest I confuse him further.



barkoosh said:


> I see nothing here that makes the verb in the jussive. I don't think it's really used this way.



I was just regurgitating what my grammar texts have relayed to me. My books do mention that that usage is comparatively rare. The Jussive used without negation prefixes seems only to occur in clauses connected with other clauses, that is not completely independently.


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## barkoosh

Tensor78 said:


> The Jussive used without negation prefixes seems only to occur in clauses connected with other clauses, that is not completely independently.


Totally true. And that's one of the most confusing things in Arabic grammar.


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## Tensor78

barkoosh, you are not aware of the Jussive being used to deliver a "softened" imperative? 

taktub = you write! 

this never happens? 

How would you soften an imperative so as not to sound too imperious in conversation?


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## barkoosh

Nope, never heard of it.

Softening of the imperative is usually done with the tone of the voice, or, of course, by adding words such as 'please'.


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## rayloom

I agree with Barkoosh in his posts. 
Also to soften a command you can use lam al-amr + jussive. 

Anyways, this topic been discussed previously here:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2089147


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## barkoosh

rayloom said:


> Anyways, this topic been discussed previously here:
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2089147


Nice topic.


rayloom said:


> Also to soften a command you can use lam al-amr + jussive.


Now I see why, when watching a foreign TV program and reading the Arabic subtitles, the translator uses لتذهب (أنت)‏ instead of اذهب! This is never used in my country.


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## paieye

Is the result that jussive + laa is 'do not ....' and jussive + lam is 'did not' ?  To express the latter, can one not alternatively use the past tense + laa  ? (The latter seems to a speaker of European languages a good deal more natural...)


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## barkoosh

> Is the result that jussive + laa is 'do not ....' and jussive + lam is 'did not' ?


Correct.


> To express the latter, can one not alternatively use the past tense + laa ?


'maa', not 'laa', should be used with the past tense. However, the form 'lam+jussive' is much more common in MSA.


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## paieye

Perfect, thank you.


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## paieye

So, if I want to say to my son 'You did not visit us yesterday,' is it correct to say 'لم تزورنا أمس ' ?


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## barkoosh

You can correctly use لم. But the verb تزور is one of the special cases. تزور in the jussive becomes تَزُرْ. See here under the column المضارع المجزوم.


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## paieye

As always, you are absolutely right, and I am most grateful.


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