# What is your attitude towards non-natives answering your queries?



## fernandotorres

Hello to all,
             What is the reaction of you all when you see a non-native member of the forums responding to your query related to a particular language?For instance,even though a regional dialect of India called Marathi is my mother tongue and Hindi is my  national language,I am more comfortable and at ease with the English language,since I have been learning English since I was 3-4 years old.Thus,my entire thinking process and the formualtion of my thoughts takes place in English.I can"think" in English and indeed,of all the languages I know,I have the highest degree of fluency in English.So,how much credibility would you attach to the responses of a non-native?Especiallly,if he is a junior member or not a stalwart of the forum?


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## Laztana

Hi,
I'm fine with everyone's answers. I've found that quite often non-natives have a better command of spanish grammar than myself, so they could answer spanish grammar queries without any problem. However, I think it is harder for non-natives of any language to answer questions about colloquial or regional language, unless they live in the country. Indeed, the residence country can be equally revealing as the mother tongue. The key is not to answer if you are not sure or state that you are not sure (even when the query refers to your mother tongue).

saludos


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## Outsider

I am O.K. with it, especially since I often do it myself. 

Seriously, there are people whose answers I may find unreliable, but I decide that on a case by case basis. It isn't necessarily the non-natives who give unreliable replies. Natives can be blind to subtleties that they've never had to think about, or they may tell you "there's no rule, you just have to use what sounds good", when in fact there is a rule but they don't know about it, or they may get overly prescriptive. My guesstimate would be that it's a 50-50 split for each side, in terms of reliability.


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## min300

I become happy, whenever I see a new reply to what I have written. When a non-native answers my question, I know that she/he wants to help. And sometimes I receive a really good reply from non-natives. So I would appreciate any comments from natives and non-natives, because they all help me understand and solve my problem in a better  way. And I myself try to post a reply, whenever I think that I know something and it can help one of my friends here. I really like this forum and its members.


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## Macunaíma

There's a thing called _metalinguistic_ _awareness_ that non-native speakers sometimes have more than natives. As Outsiders pointed out, natives can be sometimes oblivious to aspects and subtleties of their own language because they simply don't have to learn it, think about it, they just acquired it by osmosis, as it were. Of course, this is not the case in a forum like this, but an English native speaker _on the street_, for instance, may be thrown off their balance by the simplest of questions, while non-natives can give you a whole new insight into a language point, especially because they often understand instictively what your difficulty is, without you having to get all muddled up trying to explain yourself.


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## mally pense

I don't have any problem with anyone who wants to reply if they think they have something to contribute to the discussion. Obviously on a multilingual, multicultural forum like this the "Location" and "Native of" information forms an essential part of reading each post, or at least is there for immediate reference should there be a need to check the linguistic/geographic context for what's being said. In any case, I think that by and large, people do not post unless they _do_ have something useful or interesting to contribute, whether that's as a native speaker or otherwise.


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## Tao

I see no problem. It's not about who's saying it; it's about what's being said. If it takes a native to explain something perfectly regarding something very specific for example, then it happens to take a native, but ultimately it's what he or she says and it could be anybody who happens to be knowledgeable. To me it is as trivial and silly as comparing two men who say something; one wearing a suit and being cleanly shaved and looking good, and the other looking poor and not so representative... one is to check what the person says for validity.

I know there are Dutch people aplenty in Holland who are simply bad at their Dutch spelling. Some I have seen whose spelling is totally unacceptable.


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## John Carter

No problem. Any foreigner who has studied English grammar would answer a grammar question far better than I.

ZJC


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## Whodunit

Since I am one of them who always try to help, even though it's not my native language and I have no command of it, it's all right with me when a non-native tries to answer a question of mine. It feels kind of strange when I ask a question in the German forum regarding regional differences and a, say, native Spanish speaker answers that he'd say this or that, but I see his good side and know that he just wants to help me. 

If I see a thread about Turkish plurals (when to use -_ler_ and _-lar_, for example), I can easily reply, no matter how bad my (non-existing) Turkish is. It depends on the question. If there's an easy thread in the German forum about case endings, I'd be happy, if a non-native answers it, because I guess he an explain much better than I could.

Additionally, we can all correct each other, so who cares if the non-native has made a mistake? Just smile (not haughtily!) and correct it kindly.


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## Trisia

As a matter of fact, I stay on the forum for the express purpose of answering questions. I don't think I've opened more than 20 threads. But the forum is great fun, and I love it.

Sometimes, people look at your profile and think "she's a non-native, what can she say that's actually useful?" and this attitude is reflected in their posts. That's when you feel like you've posted for nothing. I've had threads where I mentioned an answer, but it was disregarded. Only after several posts, a native gave the same version and it was accepted. I guess that hurts a bit, but since it doesn't happen very often, I get over it fast.

And after a while people learn your name, and actually listen to what you have to say. That's wonderful, and I wouldn't miss this experience for the world.


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## mally pense

> And after a while people learn your name, and actually listen to what you have to say.


 
That's certainly true. Your name (and brain food photo) triggered a very positive response in me when I saw it just now.


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## panjabigator

I try and value everyones opinions the same, however I think I have a bit of a preference towards a non-natives response simply because non-natives generally tend to be more objective.  That said, all responses are useful and appreciated.  My preference is only a slight tendency...


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## TimLA

I agree with the comments here.
I've learned *TONS* of English from my Italian friends (most of my time is on IE).

But what I generally don't do, is respond to questions which ask
"for English natives only", or "for natives only", or "natives preferred" -
I'll spend my time helping those who are more "flexible".


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## Lopes

Trisia said:


> As a matter of fact, I stay on the forum for the express purpose of answering questions. I don't think I've opened more than 20 threads. But the forum is great fun, and I love it.
> 
> Sometimes, people look at your profile and think "she's a non-native, what can she say that's actually useful?" and this attitude is reflected in their posts. That's when you feel like you've posted for nothing. I've had threads where I mentioned an answer, but it was disregarded. Only after several posts, a native gave the same version and it was accepted. I guess that hurts a bit, but since it doesn't happen very often, I get over it fast.
> 
> And after a while people learn your name, and actually listen to what you have to say. That's wonderful, and I wouldn't miss this experience for the world.



I feel the same about every word you have written in this post


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## danielfranco

Trisia said:


> [...]And after a while people learn your name, and actually listen to what you have to say...


 
Well, sometimes, after people learn your name, they know they can discount anything you have to say... 

No, but seriously, folks: The answers should stand on their own merits. I mean, if a Martian responded correctly to one of my threads I wouldn't be too much put off by him being from Mars, you know?
Okay...
That example didn't work very well...
Wait, I've got it! Look: as a native Spanish-speaker I learned to use the subjunctive by speaking the language. I listened to the people around it and I used the phrases and lexicon they used. So, if someone asked me to define the rules for the subjunctive mode of conjugation, I probably would just sputter, but a foreigner learning Spanish from scratch probably would know those rules and would be able to articulate them.
I think...


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## Trisia

danielfranco said:


> Well, sometimes, after people learn your name, they know they can discount anything you have to say...



 Great one. It's never happened to me - I have no black list, but hey, perhaps I'm on someone else's 



> No, but seriously, folks: The answers should stand on their own merits. I mean, if a Martian responded correctly to one of my threads I wouldn't be too much put off by him being from Mars, you know?



The example is perfect, and I agree we should judge posts by their intrinsic value. There is one problem though: you are already good at the languages you're studying, at least good enough to figure out if you're being given solutions or gibberish. If you happened to be an absolute beginner, knowing a few reliable names might help.

Aside from this tiny comment, I fully endorse your post, especially since I've got the same problem with English grammar.


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## danielfranco

This is a thread that deals with the other side of the coin: native speakers.


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## Kajjo

fernandotorres said:


> What is the reaction of you all when you see a non-native member of the forums responding to your query related to a particular language?


Well, I believe you need to get to know the foreros quite well to decide how valid and reliable a given answer is. This is predominant for me, because there are a lot of sub-standard answers mixed with real expert replies.

I know that some very reliable answers are reguarly given by non-natives in the German forum. Thus, I do not have any prejudice agaist non-native answers. What drives me crazy, though, are natives and non-natives alike that repeatedly give wrong answers. In many cases no answer would be better than a wrong answer -- at least for me.

Kajjo


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## Outsider

You have to remember that people are usually not aware of the extent of their own ignorance.


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## alexacohen

I feel extremely proud that a non-native has found my language and my culture so interesting so as to devote his or her time to study it.
And many, many times, their answers are accurate.

There are many answers that are nor correct, that is true, but from both natives and non natives alike.


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## fenixpollo

Well, I believe that a non-native speaker can be considered "native" for practical purposes, and that one can translate equally well into one's second language as into their native language. It's possible to reach a native level in one's second language -- to speak it, to dream it, and to even feel it, even if one has never visited a country in which that language is spoken.


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## jonquiliser

I appreciate them. Actually, I appreciate the mere fact that someone has taken the time to reply, even if the answer may not be entirely accurate. But usually a few people turn up with convincing, thoughtful replies. That’s enough. Although occasionally I do come across answers that could have benefited of a moment’s thought before being posted; as when someone posts to state quite categorically that “that’s wrong”, when clearly what’s wrong is the claim that the use inquired about is wrong. Though I don’t think that has as much to do with nativeness as it has with the attitudes of the people in question. 

Anyway, on the topic of “natives”. A very dear friend of mine made me realise there’s something more than just “idiomatic” or “correct” usage of language (and at any rate, the border between “idiomatic” and  “cliché” is often thin as diluted water); creativity and imagination can in themselves be sources of infinite riches, which go far beyond “correct standard language”. It doesn’t take native ‘training’ to be creative (although language use is often viewed quite differently depending on whether someone is a “native” or not – in the latter case, it’s typically taken as plain lack of knowledge, in the former it (may, at least) pass as creativity.) Interesting, this thing with ideas about what it means to be “native of a language”. Also, it can be very funny to see what people think of your language and all its quirks and peculiarities - things you get blind to when using a language a lot.


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## Lugubert

For another anecdote (referring to nobody in particular), I once taught Swedish to a class of adults of very mixed nationalities - including Swedes. The shining star when it came to Swedish grammar was a guy from Hungary.


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## Qcumber

For a given informant, I analyse his/her answers to various questions to determine how reliable he/she is.
I noticed some non-native informants are more reliable than native informants. 
On the other hand some native informants will write a lot of silly things due to their lack of education or, perhaps, plain common sense.
I also have the impression some languages attract a lot of morons who will answer anything that occurs to them just for the pleasure to "teach" something.


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## Outsider

I'd like to add one thing to what I wrote above. For me, answering questions is also a way to learn a language. Sometimes I may give a wrong answer, but then someone else is likely to show up and set me straight, and I'll be more likely to remember it later, out of shame if nothing else. This is how I view my participation in these threads. Someone asks a question, someone posts a first reply. Someone else then may correct the first replies, and then the corrected replies may be further corrected. In the end, most participants have learned something new.

Because of this attitude of mine, it baffles me how some users will make one question and then take the first reply that they get as the truth, ignoring subsequent replies. But that's their choice. As always on the Internet, _caveat emptor_.


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## Nanon

My philosophy: 

Please, if you have the right answer, do not keep it to yourself. Share it.
OK, if I make a mistake or if I give a wrong answer, I will be corrected. So what? I can only learn more.
Being a native does not necessarily mean that you have a good answer, and as Macunaíma pointed out, instinct, or just saying "it sounds better that way", may be insufficient in some cases.

I would also like to say that I have been amazed by the quality and the accuracy of many questions or answers from non-natives.

I try to justify my answers as much as I can, in any language. Since I am rather new here (my "seniority" is relative, I haven't reached any milestone yet ) I sometimes tend to use many (too many?) quotes and links, in order for those who ask to check or search for further info.


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## Outsider

Well, here's another related thread.


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## Etcetera

I appreciate answers from all people, natives and non-natives alike. I did receive good and sufficient answers to my questions from people who weren't native speakers; and I also remember a number of cases when non-native speakers of Russian were able to explain something we natives couldn't even understand properly.

As some people already pointed out, non-natives can be aware of things natives never think of. As a native speaker of Russian and learner of English, I'll be able to understand why my compatriot may be having problems with something that is just obvious for natives. 

Well, in general, the thing I like about WRF most of all is that questions are usually answered by different people, and most of them are devoted enough to participate in discussions.


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## Caitlin234

In general, I think it's great when non-natives take time to answer queries. I sometimes find it frustrating, however, when I'm scanning queries in the "English Only" forum and I notice that a non-native speaker has answered another member's question incorrectly. The mistake itself doesn't bother me, but if a native speaker follows up with a correction and the non-native speaker _insists_ that his or her original response is correct... Sigh. Fortunately, this is a rather unusual occurrence.

Caitlin


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## Trisia

Caitlin234 said:


> In general, I think it's great when non-natives take time to answer queries. I sometimes find it frustrating, however, when I'm scanning queries in the "English Only" forum and I notice that a non-native speaker has answered another member's question incorrectly. The mistake itself doesn't bother me, but if a native speaker follows up with a correction and the non-native speaker _insists_ that his or her original response is correct... Sigh. Fortunately, this is a rather unusual occurrence.
> 
> Caitlin



Well, I guess I've... erm... _seen _it happen. 

As a non-native who spends a lot of time messing with the threads in the EO, I've also seen natives who 'corrected' a good answer, and that led to further confusion.

But I agree that's very, very rare.


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## nightlone

Is "non-natives" just referring to non-native English speakers? Because I think that they - as compared to non-native speakers of other languages - are a special case as there are so many who have near-native language skills and have been exposed to English in a big way since childhood.

If you're a native speaker of a less spoken/influential language, maybe you won't come across many people who are truly fluent in your language (and perhaps even regard those as special cases?) whereas there are so many non-natives who have a very high level of English.

I definitely agree that you shouldn't take a native's opinion over a non-native's just because he has spoken the language all his life, but I think that because English is the world's (and this forum's) lingua franca,  non-natives who speak it very well are more likely to dismiss the idea that "nativeness" by itself (in English) counts for quite a lot. But I'm not always convinced they would have the same opinion when it comes to their own language.


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## Nanon

nightlone said:


> Is "non-natives" just referring to non-native English speakers?



Not necessarily, at least not in WR - I was _not _referring to English in my post # 26 (sorry for the self-quote). One sometimes sees (or posts) such replies as _"Ooooh, I didn't even notice you were not ..._ (complete with appropriate words here)" !

But this is how *I* think - maybe I am not typical.


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## Saoul

TimLA said:


> But what I generally don't do, is respond to questions which ask
> "for English natives only", or "for natives only", or "natives preferred" -



I couldn't agree more! 

I'm absolutely happy with anyone's answer. 
One of the greater things I learnt here at WRF is that fluency is not really all about being born in a Country.


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## Kibramoa

My attitude is that we are all here to learn. I think that what matters is the *content* of the reply -as some of you have already pointed out- and not wether or not the person is a native speaker of language X. The replies of 2, 4, 5 people to the same inquiry only enrich the topic (with few exceptions). In Spanish we say: dos cabezas piensan mejor que una -two heads think better than one. These forums are a prime example.


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## mally pense

> The replies of 2, 4, 5 people to the same inquiry only enrich the topic (with few exceptions).


 
Ha, yes! - even "incorrect" answers are instructive. We can learn something from every reply. Whether that's what the writer intended us to learn or something else entirely is another matter, but it certainly _enriches_ the topic as you've said.

By the way, we also have a saying in English: "Two heads are better than one". I guess we just assume the heads are thinking...


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## Vagabond

nightlone said:


> I think that because English is the world's (and this forum's) lingua franca, non-natives who speak it very well are more likely to dismiss the idea that "nativeness" by itself (in English) counts for quite a lot. But I'm not always convinced they would have the same opinion when it comes to their own language.


Actually, every time a non-native Greek speaker answers a question on the Greek forum, I'm amazed by their insight and correct grasp of the rules that us natives take for granted and couldn't easily articulate. Like people said, what matters is the content of one's answer; not their "nativeness". I certainly don't think that "nativeness" in my language is somehow more important than it is in English or whichever other widely spoken language out there.

As a sidenote, what I don't really appreciate in some native speakers (of any language), is their lack of empathy for the learner; for example, someone asks whether the correct way to say something in Martian  is X or Z (because he's heard both), and a native Martian dismisses their concerns by saying "whatever comes out of the lips of a native speaker is correct, because natives can't possibly be wrong, because languages evolve - @#!@#! standardised rules". While that might be true, a learner needs a basis to start from (rules!). Colloquialisms will come later. Just tell the guy, the official rule says X, but you can also hear Z in everyday's life.


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## mally pense

Vagabond, please consider yourself an honorary native-speaker of English! Your use of the language is close to exemplary.

(The relevance of this to the discussion is that you are clearly at least as well qualified to answer questions on English as most native speakers, and probably better than most for the very reasons you've cited).


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## Vagabond

mally pense said:


> Vagabond, please consider yourself an honorary native-speaker of English! Your use of the language is close to exemplary.
> 
> (The relevance of this to the discussion is that you are clearly at least as well qualified to answer questions on English as most native speakers, and probably better than most for the very reasons you've cited).


Aww, don't make me blush  Thank you.


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## Horazio

Being native does not mean "proficency". Sometimes non natives are more accurate and tend to pay more attention to the formal aspects of a lenguage,such as grammar etc etc


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## MarX

Hi Fernandotorres!

I don't mind at all.
In fact, sometimes non-native speakers are indeed better at explaining things. I sometimes have difficulties explaining things about Indonesian because it's simply a language I speak. I don't really why this and that a lot in Indonesian language.

Salam,


MarX


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## Gwan

To echo the thoughts of most of you above - I think, for myself as a poster, I'm great at saying 'that sounds right' or 'that doesn't sound right' - natives in particular can do that right off the bat. But explaining _why _is considerably more difficult, and often it's the non-natives who actually know the rules. That said, any good answer is a good answer, no matter who it comes from!
But one to look out for is the "but that's what it says in the textbook..." - bear in mind that the textbook may have been written years ago or for a particular type of (English), and may not reflect the way people speak - I think textbooks in particular are quite conservative and definitely can't keep up with the constant changes of a living language.


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## MarX

Gwan said:


> To echo the thoughts of most of you above - I think, for myself as a poster, I'm great at saying 'that sounds right' or 'that doesn't sound right' - natives in particular can do that right off the bat. But explaining _why _is considerably more difficult, and often it's the non-natives who actually know the rules. That said, any good answer is a good answer, no matter who it comes from!
> But one to look out for is the "but that's what it says in the textbook..." - bear in mind that the textbook may have been written years ago or for a particular type of (English), and may not reflect the way people speak - I think textbooks in particular are quite conservative and definitely can't keep up with the constant changes of a living language.


I agree with you Gwan.
For example here in WR there's been some discussions about "It is I" vs. "It is me", or "That is she" vs. "That's her", "He's taller than I" vs. "... than me".
The grammar textbooks may say the second variants are incorrect, but fact is, they are the ones most likely to be used by native speakers in normal conversations, whereas the others already sound "out of place" for some in normal day to day situations.
But let's not get off topic here.


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