# Syrian Arabic: تضرب بهالكسم



## apricots

Can someone give an idiomatic translation for the saying: تضرب بهالكسم


----------



## elroy

What's the context?

My tentative guess is "Damn, what a body!".


----------



## apricots

That was what I thought too that it was a pickup line but I was told it's something a mother would say after a kid did something stupid.


----------



## analeeh

People say تضرب all the time as a rude exclamation, even towards family members. (تضرب بعينك etc). So it's probably just a variant of that.


----------



## elroy

At least in Palestinian Arabic, كسم has a positive connotation, which is why I read تضرب in the original as a negative word used positively. But maybe it's different in Syria.  By the way, we don't use تضرب this way in Palestinian Arabic, but I'm familiar with it from Syrian shows.  A Palestinian equivalent might be يلعن أبو هالكسم, which, again, would be a positive usage of a negative word.

Apricots, where did you come across the phrase?  What was the context?


----------



## apricots

elroy said:


> Apricots, where did you come across the phrase?  What was the context?



A Syrian friend of mine told it to me. She was reminded of it after I jokingly said "بدي أحافظ على كسمي" She asked her mom for a translation and the response was, "I don't know this is special language."

Quite the mystery!


----------



## Linguist777

This is a mild swear expression that is used to reprimand someone who has misbehaved or annoyed the speaker. It literally refers to someone's appearance.



> أيضاً هناك جملة تستخدم كشتيمة خفيفة الوقع هي "*تضرب بهالكسم*" وتعني أنك شخص سيئ وشكلك قبيح.


​This context should make the expression clearer:


> ولكنني توجهت إلى الناحية الأخرى , حيث أحدث السائق , قلت له : ألا تنظر في المرآة إلى ما يحدث وراءك ؟
> قال : ماذا يحدث ؟
> قلت : هذه السحابة من الدخان السام !
> قال مستغربا : وماذا تشتغل حضرتك ؟
> قلت لا شيء .. لكن هذا الدخان مضر بالصحة .
> فقال : يعني لا أنت من الصحة ولا من الداخلية ولا من المرور ؟
> قلت : لا ..
> قال : ولا تريد أن تركب ؟
> قلت أوقفتك لأنبهك من الدخان .
> ضغط على دواسة الوقود وهو يقول : أي *تضرب بهالكسم , فاضي لغلاظتك هلق *؟


----------



## elroy

So does كسم have a neutral (or negative?) connotation in Syrian?


----------



## Linguist777

It's often used in mildly negative constructions; and may even be used among friends and family members.


----------



## momai

The word indeed holds negative connotations and is not recommended to be used in normal speeches that don't include curses or "ta7sheekat".


----------



## apricots

momai said:


> The word indeed holds negative connotations and is not recommended to be used in normal speeches that don't include curses or "ta7sheekat".



Interesting. In my studies of Palestinian it is basically a neutral word equivalent to figure in English. Would most Syrian speakers be aware of that difference with Palestinian or would it be best to avoid it altogether when speaking with Syrians?


----------



## elroy

apricots said:


> Interesting. In my studies of Palestinian it is basically a neutral word equivalent to figure in English.


 As I said it has a _positive_ connotation in Palestinian Arabic.  When someone says شو هالكسم it means they're praising or admiring someone else's figure.


----------



## apricots

elroy said:


> As I said it has a _positive_ connotation in Palestinian Arabic.  When someone says شو هالكسم it means they're praising or admiring someone else's figure.



So you would never use كسم and describe it with a negative adjective?


----------



## elroy

apricots said:


> So you would never using كسم and describe it with a negative adjective?


 I would not.  As a matter of fact, we have an adjective, مكسّم (_mkassam_), which is derived from كسم and refers to having a _good_ figure (جسمها مكسم = "She has a good/nice figure").  Also, in listing a woman's attractive traits, one could say, for example, طول وحلاة وكسم, with no need to add a positive adjective after كسم because it's already positive.  Note that the other two words in the list are positive (assuming tallness is a desirable trait, which in Palestinian culture it tends to be).  You wouldn't say طول وحلاة وجسم, because جسم is neutral (like "body" in English); everyone has one, and it may or may not be attractive.


----------



## apricots

So would you only use كسم when describing a woman? Is there a masculine equivalent like physique? The Olive Tree dictionary has no entry for physique and all the examples for كسم are about women.


----------



## elroy

It's generally used to refer to women, but I would have no problem using it to refer to a man's physique.  I think the predominant use of the word to refer to women is more cultural than anything else.


----------



## elroy

momai said:


> "ta7sheekat"


 شو يعني تحشيكات؟


----------



## momai

elroy said:


> شو يعني تحشيكات؟


مسبات عالتقيل


----------



## salutatout

apricots said:


> Can someone give an idiomatic translation for the saying: تضرب بهالكسم


 We mean with it: come on.. don't be stupid!


----------



## baha hijazi

apricots said:


> Can someone give an idiomatic translation for the saying: تضرب بهالكسم


I've lived in Syria my whole life 20+ years and I'm still living there, so I'd like to try to explain:
كسم means body or physique as mentioned before.
Two other similar sayings we use are: تضرب بهالشكل and شكل means 'your look or appearance' and تضرب بهالمنظر which somehow has the same meaning.
The literal translation of تضرب may be "May you get kicked" but it really is a mildly negative word as also mentioned in the replies.
تضرب in imperative would be انضرب and is used in expressions such as "قوم انضرب do something" which literal meaning would be "Get kicked and get up do something" but in figurative meaning it just means something like "move your as* and do something".
So after all تضرب is used as a mild negative word and كسم, شكل, منظر is used to determine you yourself whom I'm speaking to.
Sorry for the long reply and I wish it was somehow useful 

[Edit:] I want to add that the word كسم alone may be used in positive contexts as one of the most used flattering expressions I think: يسلملي هالكسم which literally means "may this body (which as I said means you yourself) be always safe for me" and يسلم may be the opposite of يضرب.


----------



## apricots

Awesome! Thank you the saying makes perfect sense to me. May you get kicked (for being annoying, stupid, etc.)


----------



## elroy

Welcome to the forum, baha hijazi! 


baha hijazi said:


> كسم, شكل, منظر


 In Palestinian Arabic, we also use شكل and منظر in expressions of this type - but not كسم.  This seems to be a Palestinian-Syrian difference.

The meaning of the expression was clear to me from the beginning, by the way.  As I said, though, because of the positive connotations of كسم in Palestinian Arabic, I thought it was being used in a positive way (sort of like يخرب بيتو شو شاطر).  Very interesting!


----------



## baha hijazi

Thanks a lot dear sirs, I hope to benefit and be beneficial 
And no Mr.elroy, I've never heard "تضرب" being used in a positive way, unlike "يخرب بيتو" which can be used in both contexts.


----------

