# Urdu: مار



## teaboy

What part of speech is the* مارا * _maaraa _in this phrase* مچھر مارا دویات کا سپرے* _machhar maaraa davaiaat kaa spre_?


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> What part of speech is the* مارا * _maaraa _in this phrase* مچھر مارا دویات کا سپرے* _machhar maaraa davaiaat kaa spre_?



I'm afraid there is no maaraa in the above phrase. This phrase reads as follows:

machchhar maar adviyaat kaa s(a)pre

adviyaat is a double plural form of davaa - a remedy


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## teaboy

Ha!  That's pretty funny!  Thanks for straightening me out!

What exactly is a double plural?


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> Ha!  That's pretty funny!  Thanks for straightening me out!
> 
> What exactly is a double plural?



You're welcome! 

The double plural is a plural ending added to a noun form which already is plural: جمع الجمع a plural of the plural!

Singular: _davaa_
Plural: (Arabic) _adviyah_ (so called broken plural)
Double plural: _adviyah_ + _-aat_ (plural marker) ---> _adviyaat.
_
In Urdu the latter is used much more frequently than the former.

Of course you have other ways of forming plural for _davaa_ at your disposal:


davaa ---> davaa'eN

This double plural is a purely grammatical phenomenon, it doesn't change the meaning here.


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## teaboy

Well, that is what I thought you meant.  Is this some kind of overcompensating thing?


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## teaboy

And how do you write adviyah? *ادویہ* ?


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> Well, that is what I thought you meant.  Is this some kind of overcompensating thing?


Yes, it is, but adding a clear-cut plural ending removes possible ambiguity.


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> And how do you write adviyah? *ادویہ* ?



Yes, you are right!


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## Faylasoof

teaboy said:


> Well, that is what I thought you meant.  Is this some kind of overcompensating thing?


 It is a convention to use this form of plural in Urdu.

_machchar maar davaa _مچھر مار دوا = mosquitocide

_machchar maar *adviyaat*_  = mosquitocide*s*

BTW, here:

-*maar*  = -cide / icide

_jaraathiim maar davaa_ جراثیم مار دوا = bactericide

_kiiRe maar davaa _كیڑے مار دوا =  insecticide

etc.


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## teaboy

So is the _aat_ ending a Persian pluralization method, or a different kind of Arabic pluralization method?


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> So is the _aat_ ending a Persian pluralization method, or a different kind of Arabic pluralization method?


The suffix _-aat _is originally an Arabic pluralization method which is applied to feminine nouns ending in te marbuuta ة, ــة. It is used in Persian and Urdu as well. 

Before applying this suffix you have to remove the ending -ہ,ہہ.


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## Faylasoof

teaboy said:


> So is the _aat_ ending a Persian pluralization method, or a different kind of Arabic pluralization method?


 It is Arabic pluralization, as marrish SaaHIb has thoroughly explained above.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> The suffix _-aat _is originally an Arabic pluralization method which is applied to feminine nouns ending in te marbuuta ة, ــة. It is used in Persian and Urdu as well.
> 
> Before applying this suffix you have to remove the ending -ہ,ہہ.




Just to throw a small spanner in the works..

The -aat plural is not always added to feminine nouns. It is also added to masculine ones too.

mataar kabiir = a large airport

mataaraat kabiirah = large airports


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> What part of speech is the* مارا * _maaraa _in this phrase* مچھر مارا دویات کا سپرے* _machhar maaraa davaiaat kaa spre_?



In machchhar-maar, maar could be thought of as an abbreviation for "maarne vaalaa/vaalii). maarne vaalaa, in terms of parts of speech would be the "agentive", as in the English doer/speaker/killer. As a suffix, it is used adjectively..

machchhar-maar adviyaat = mosquito killing drugs/chemicals

You might have heard of a literary character "tiis-maar Khan" (?)


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Just to throw a small spanner in the works..
> 
> The -aat plural is not always added to feminine nouns. It is also added to masculine ones too.
> 
> mataar kabiir = a large airport
> 
> mataaraat kabiirah = large airports



It's always nice to learn something new! I believe it's the case of an exception that proves the rule?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> In machchhar-maar, maar could be thought of as an abbreviation for "maarne vaalaa/vaalii). maarne vaalaa, in terms of parts of speech would be the "agentive", as in the English doer/speaker/killer. As a suffix, it is used adjectively..
> 
> machchhar-maar adviyaat = mosquito killing drugs/chemicals
> 
> You might have heard of a literary character "tiis-maar Khan" (?)



To illustrate the various uses of _maar_, and its different roles as a part of speech, there is another example which comes to my mind, rather because of its being related to insects than to the grammar:

_makkhii-maar
_
In this case it is a compound noun, which has a couple of separate meanings:

1. a fly-swatter
2. a disgusting person
3. an nothing-to-do person

By the way, not only _-maar_ (as the verb stem) occurs as a second element of a nominal compound, take _makkhii-chuus _for instance


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> To illustrate the various uses of _maar_, and its different roles as a part of speech, there is another example which comes to my mind, rather because of its being related to insects than to the grammar:
> 
> _makkhii-maar
> _



Why do you think I mentioned "tiis-maar Khan"?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Why do you think I mentioned "tiis-maar Khan"?


 No doubt you mentioned him to show the agentive function, thus grammar. I have just followed your suit and gave another example, this time an insectival one, to stick to the topic, so to say.,


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## Faylasoof

In this context, _maar_ is indeed agentive! 

BTW, _maar_ is of course used by itself to mean: striking, beating, range (of a missile) etc. For the former meaning:

_us par xudaa kii maar ho!_ = May God strike him / her down! = May God’s curse be upon him / her!

_maar_ also means _snake_, which we’ve borrowed from Persian, and it is used in Urdu literature.

Note: Just to clarify! 
The points about Arabic feminine plurlization using _–aat_ suffix made by both marrish and QP SaaHibaan are true! The use of this suffix to pluralize is quite common in Arabic and though largely restricted to feminine nouns is not entirely so. Apart from _maTaaraat_, in MSA (Modern Standard Arabic), mentioned above, many foreign nouns borrowed into Arabic that are “masculine” in singular take the _–aat_ feminine ending in the plural (_tilifuunaat_, _tilivizyunaat_ etc.) and in both MSA and older Classical Arabic a feminine can have a plural with or without the _–aat_ ending depending (e.g. _xaliifah_ -> _xulafaa’_). *These points are best discussed in the Arabic forum but please search before you post since things like  the double plural has already been discussed there. You can find it here and here.*


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