# How do you deal with rowdy, ribald tourists



## Cracker Jack

April 23rd is a red-letter day for Catalonia.  Today, everyone observes the Dia de Sant Jordi.  Main thoroughfares are ''littered'' with flower and book stalls.  It is like Disneyland for bookworms.  Both sellers and patron are having a field day.  It also attracts tourists attention.

Aside from this, there is a big match tonight between FCB and Manchester.  Tourists and those who root for Manchester have been coming in droves. True, they boost tourism industry but at times they are very annoying, loud and unruly.  

They are armed with booze and who knows, crack as well.  They roam around and sing in chorus.  Some carry bullhorns and megaphones, wailing loudly, giving each other high fives. Heads turn, cars stop, etc.  They piss openly, they rock the subway, literally hitting train walls and glasses.  They also smear walls with graffiti.  Worse, they at times pick-up fights with locals. The police force is tolerant.  At times, these _guiris _(pejorative
term for trouble-making tourists) can be very cheeky.

I just console myself with the thought that this is just in passing and sooner or later, they will be gone.  My question is, how does the police in your country deal with this?  How do the locals react to this?


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## Zsanna

Although we live near the Stade de France - still far enough not to be bothered by football fans (tourists or not). Not having seen the whole thing from too close I can only give an impression: it seems to me as if events like this went smoother in France than in Spain (or in England).


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## sokol

So far Austria hasn't seen such great masses of tourists, but it is not unusual that some rows between fans occur when international matches are staged. We already had some incidents with German, English and Dutch hooligans - broken shop windows and the like. (Also with local matches, occasionally, for that matter, but that's beside the point.)

If fans take up a battle then police will intervene surely.

Else (that is, besides football), tourists behave rather civilised here in Austria, most of the times.
(I may change my mind after Euro 2008 when a great many fans from all over Europe will visit Vienna - we'll have to wait and see ...)


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## Cracker Jack

Thanks a lot Zsanna, gomer and sokol.  So far it did not turn out really bloody before and after the match.  Maybe the visitors just feel a little freer here in Barcelona than in France.  Probably if they are in France they would behave better.  That is just my opinion.


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## Zsanna

I'm glad you (all) "survived"! 
I think the enviroment has some influence on everybody's behaviour. You cannot be fully enthusiastic if you see blank faces around you...
In France, football does not provoke the same enthusiasm in general, although there have been changes ever since the great "breakthrough" in 1998.


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## alexacohen

But hooligans are not tourists, or are they?

I really think that both concepts shouldn't be mixed up.

If the question is "how do we deal with troublesome football hooligans" the answer would be:

The police picks them up, identifies them, and sends them back to their country of origin. Some of the troublemakers are sent to hospital, and some are sent to prison before they are expelled.


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## anothersmith

We don't have that problem in Los Angeles.  We get many tourists throughout the year, but they are generally very well-behaved.


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## tvdxer

anothersmith said:


> We don't have that problem in Los Angeles.  We get many tourists throughout the year, but they are generally very well-behaved.



Same thing in Duluth - we have a ton of tourists in the summer and fall, yet they rarely misbehave or cause any trouble.


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## wildan1

Interesting that sports tourists are so violent in Europe. I know my country has a stereotypical reputation for violence, but it rarely if ever happens in or around sports events in the U.S.


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## sokol

alexacohen said:


> But hooligans are not tourists, or are they?



Well, usually they aren't, not quite (they come for the match, watch the match, then probably misbehave, then they're off).

It's different with great tournaments like the Euro 2008, but I agree with you that sports tourists and 'other' tourists are two different things. (There's also a huge difference between tourists interested in culture and the classical 'party' or 'beach tourist'.)

Usually, tourists here in Vienna behave quite okay.
Sometimes they're a nuisance. But they do not come nearly in such great masses (even though Vienna too is quite popular) as I've seen in Barcelona when I was there last year in September/October.
With so many foreigners in town I guess it's only natural that conflicts arise.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

wildan1 said:


> Interesting that sports tourists are so violent in Europe.


 
The problem is that they gather in huge crowds and that they get drunk. I myself live in Barcelona and I believe it's the local authorities' fault that this happens: it's too easy to buy cheap alcohol here and drink it out in the streets. 

Certain type of tourists take advantage of the situation that we ourselves offer and the whole thing leads to chaos.


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## Broccolicious

I'm not even sure it's 'sports' tourists - isn't it just football? I've never seen such problems surrounding tennis, cricket or rugby.

And it's not just people travelling overseas: I remember being terrified by drunken fans in Madrid, following a match with Barcelona.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Broccolicious said:


> I'm not even sure it's 'sports' tourists - isn't it just football? I've never seen such problems surrounding tennis, cricket or rugby.
> 
> And it's not just people travelling overseas: I remember being terrified by drunken fans in Madrid, following a match with Barcelona.


 
You are completely right: it's something to do basically with soccer.

As for drunken fans in Madrid, as I mentioned earlier, it's a big problem (I believe) alcohol being so cheap in Spain.


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## Cracker Jack

Thanks a lot for your replies.  However, I really do not understand why they misbehave.  It probably has something to do with what TPS said about the police force being lax to these tourists.  Another reason could be the huge tourist influx year in year out in Barcelona.  There is always a horde of tourists that come anytime of the year even on Good Friday, All Saints Day, Christmas and New Year. 

The more, the kinkier.


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## Broccolicious

I hope they're not too kinky!

I think you're probably right - it's a combination of booze, lax policing and the feeling of being 'free' (from work, family commitments etc) - maybe they just feel that they can let their hair down without repercussions.


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## katie_here

Can't speak for tourists, as I don't seem to come across many, but I do live near Manchester United football ground and the fans are annoying to say the least.  They have taken to blocking my street with their cars as though they have a right to park where they want.  There are some decent fans of course, but I quite understand what you are talking about, Cracker Jack. 

Sometimes also, when I've been abroad, especially in Magaluf, I was ashamed of my British compatriots, some are indeed rowdy, can't handle the beer and make me feel ashamed to be English.    

When I was in Montenegro I was asked often if I was Russian  (Ruski, if that's how you spell it?)  and I didn't mind them thinking that.   Sometimes I'd rather people didn't know I was British.  It's really sad, but I wonder why they can't behave, why they want everything "English" when they get there and why they expect everyone to speak English and don't make an effort.  We are guests in your countries, and we should act accordingly.


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## avershin

It would be safe to assume that, as some people mentioned above, it is a phenomenon more related to this very sports activity than to being from a certain country or travelling abroad. In my country soccer fans are always violent during the key soccer events, and so they are when going to attend a game of their team that happens abroad. Their behaviour often causes them to be penalized (again either home or in another country) and seriously affect the image of Russia.
One of these days we are hosting a Champion League game between Manchester and Chelsea and according to rough estimates about 40000 fans are expected to come. It is fun to see two British teams to play in Russia. However, the police here is quite experienced in handling those events and it tends to be everything but lax with bullies.


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## Sepia

Broccolicious said:


> I'm not even sure it's 'sports' tourists - isn't it just football? I've never seen such problems surrounding tennis, cricket or rugby.
> 
> And it's not just people travelling overseas: I remember being terrified by drunken fans in Madrid, following a match with Barcelona.


 
It is definitely only football. At martial arts tournaments - as an example - it has been more than 20 years since I saw anyone behaving totally out of line. (Iranian Team - not a spectator, Tae-Kwondo World Championships in Copenhagen). I have never heard of any such situation at any kind of motor racing event either. 

But don't you forget, football hooligans sometimes travel for other reasons as football: On my frequent trips to Mallorca I often see very similar types of persons behaving totally out of line while travelling for the purpose of general tourism. Those idiots don't cease to exist just because there is no football match taking place. The only sensible way to deal with them is to give your police all the support and sympathy you can give them. There is no way you can talk sense with such people as long as they still feel physically superior.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Sepia said:


> Those idiots don't cease to exist just because there is no football match taking place. The only sensible way to deal with them is to give your police all the support and sympathy you can give them. There is no way you can talk sense with such people as long as they still feel physically superior.


 
It all comes down to education and manners. As I pointed out before, I am very much against local authorities being so very permissive in places such as Barcelona or Majorca. However, if people would care to be more cultivated and read more instead of playing video games non-stop, for example, this would be a much better world.


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## alexacohen

katie_here said:


> Sometimes also, when I've been abroad, especially in Magaluf, I was ashamed of my British compatriots, some are indeed rowdy, can't handle the beer and make me feel ashamed to be English.



Katie, the kind of behaviour you mention is expected and approved. 

There are some touristic resorts that offer cheap weekend packages "all included": even the tickets for macro-disco X with free access to "all the booze you can drink". 

I wouldn't call those people tourists, either. I don't think they even know if they are travelling to Spain or to Portugal or to Montenegro. 

The only think they know is that they're going to drink till they get their fill. They are just going to a pub that is a little farther away than their usual one.


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## Broccolicious

Morning all

This evening, a Scottish football team and a Russian football team are playing in Manchester, England. I heard an interview about the fans on the radio this morning, in which a Scottish fan said, "The Russians may drink their vodka neat, but they can't drink as much as we can."

How depressing. I'm so glad I'm not going to be anywhere near Manchester tonight!

B


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## Meeracat

Edinburgh, Scotland is the capital city and mecca throughout the year for tourists, the vast majority of whom do not have to be 'dealt with' because they rarely cause problems However, one rather benign problem which we have to deal with is the fact that visiting foreign school students are led around in enormous groups of thirty or more. This is fine until their teachers decide that they must all climb aboard a single bus _en masse._ The look of horror on the faces of the poor edinburgers says it all; it seems like 'bus-abuse'. Having said that, the behaviour of these students is usually superior to the home grown variety at school closing time. Now there is a theme for a cultural discussion.


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## Einstein

The "rowdy, ribald tourists" are not likely to be seen in Edinburgh. They are usually tourists from Northern Europe who find alcohol more freely available in Southern Europe and see getting drunk as the best possible way of enjoying themselves.

As for "bus abuse", in many countries there is not a limit, as there is in Britain, to the number of people who may get on, so cramming 30 students onto one bus is normal practice, not bad manners.


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## Meeracat

I agree Einstein, I don't think anybody thinks that it is bad manners to pack so many students onto a bus in one go. It's just a cultural shock. I think the most annoying visitors are a certain type of english who come north and think it's funny to wear a 'jimmy hat', an orange wig under a tam-o'-shanter hat. This behaviour is typical of certain-brits-abroad (which can include scots) who feel vulnerable in other cultures and so become aggressively defensive of their own identity. Not a pleasant sight.


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## Mate

*Moderator note*: 

Please don't wander too far from the thread topic and keep the discussion focused on the main question. If you have a burning desire to delve deeply into something tangential, please feel free to open a new thread.


Thank you for your collaboration.


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## avershin

The game between Manchester United and Chelsea that toook place in Moscow on May 21st was not that terrible after all. The key factor was probably that all those abroad fans willing to attend it had come with special charter flights and then were off with the same flights the very night of the match. It spared them accomodation costs that are rather high in Moscow. Plus it was a really rainy day and although some visitors had consumed alcoholic drinks, they became perfectly sober and quiet after watching the game at the open-air stadium during several hours. 
Maybe dealing with rowdy tourists is just a matter of weather.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

avershin said:


> Maybe dealing with rowdy tourists is just a matter of weather.


 
That is somethow true. The "nice" sun certainly does not help since it invites to be out.


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## katie_here

avershin said:


> The game between Manchester United and Chelsea that toook place in Moscow on May 21st was not that terrible after all. The key factor was probably that all those abroad fans willing to attend it had come with special charter flights and then were off with the same flights the very night of the match. It spared them accomodation costs that are rather high in Moscow. Plus it was a really rainy day and although some visitors had consumed alcoholic drinks, they became perfectly sober and quiet after watching the game at the open-air stadium during several hours.
> Maybe dealing with rowdy tourists is just a matter of weather.


 
The fans were something to be proud of, but I can't say that about Scottish fans (Rangers) when they were in Manchester.  One screen failed and the fans rioted, wrecking cars, smashing windows and attacking the police.   I will admit though that the Russian fans were model visitors who know how to behave abroad.  

People blame the alcohol but to my mind it is bad manners and not knowing how to behave in public that is at fault.


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## avershin

katie_here said:


> The fans were something to be proud of, but I can't say that about Scottish fans (Rangers) when they were in Manchester. One screen failed and the fans rioted, wrecking cars, smashing windows and attacking the police. I will admit though that the Russian fans were model visitors who know how to behave abroad.
> 
> People blame the alcohol but to my mind it is bad manners and not knowing how to behave in public that is at fault.


 
Well, I won't pretend that the way my compatriots behave either abroad or at home is always faultless. I once had to deal with the fans of Zenit, that very soccer team that has recently visited the UK, while I was a consular officer of my country in Spain. Fifteen fans got arrested for assault against police, fourteen were later released, and one of them was sentenced to five years of imprisonment.

I believe that fusion of both aclohol abuse and bad manners account for such regrettable consequences. Normally, this people try to behave themselves when in their sound mind. The alcohol and the general environment of the event contribute to their relaxation and give rise to unleashed riot.


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## Redisca

One of the ways to deal with rowdy, ribald tourists is to remember how much money they contribute to your local economy.  You wouldn't want them -- or rather, their wallets -- to go elsewhere, would you?

This, from a New Yorker, whose home town is just _choking_ on rowdy tourists.


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## Sepia

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> It all comes down to education and manners. As I pointed out before, I am very much against local authorities being so very permissive in places such as Barcelona or Majorca. However, if people would care to be more cultivated and read more instead of playing video games non-stop, for example, this would be a much better world.



It is not my impression that the authorities are very permissive there - maybe they used to be, but they are not any more.

Tolerating them because they bring good money (do they) as some forero suggested is probably an unwise solution. There is more money to be made with tourists that can behave themselves.


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## Redisca

Sepia said:


> There is more money to be made with tourists that can behave themselves.


  Or less (or none) if you oppress them.  It's all a matter of degree, of course, but in any place that attracts a lot of tourists, inconveniences are to be expected; and any place that imposes draconian limitations on people (e.g. caning people for gum-chewing) can expect to see its tourist revenues decline.


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