# Bock zu vögeln? - Mir wärs Wurst



## Josepo100

May anybody give me the exactly meaning of this meme?:
http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=...d=0CB0QMygAMABqFQoTCNHwx4Od98gCFYLAFAodScEBuw
I know the meaning of the first sentence(Bock zu vögeln=Would you like to fuck?), but I don't find a translation that make sense at spanish at spanish orenglish.
By the way:
Wärs=wär's=contraction of war+es.
Es mir Wurst=Es mir egal, I don't care, no me importa.
So:Mir wärs Wurst= I don't care.
Help please. 
Cheers


----------



## exgerman

_Wäre Wurst _is konjunktiv (subjunctive), used for hypotheticals (If you want, it's OK, if you don't, it's also OK), and I think the intended meaning is _I could go either way, yes or no._


----------



## perpend

I agree with exgerman.

"I could go either way" sounds good.

Maybe also "I'm on the fence" / "I could take it or leave it". (No pun intended.)

EDIT: I guess it's clear from exgerman, but this "Mir wäre es Wurst" / "Mir war es egal" doesn't mean "I don't care" in a literally way. The subjunctive opens it up to the possibly of going either way, like exgerman said.

When I think about it, it is confusing in German, but it's very idiomatic.


----------



## manfy

Such phrases are notoriously hard to convert into other languages!
The intended and implicit joke can change if the context changes just very slightly, and this little change might already require a completely different idiomatic phrasing in the target language.

"Would you like to fuck?" for "Bock zu vögeln", seems too formal, thus removing some of that sarcastic bite.
I'd go with "Bock zu vögeln?" = "Fancy a fuck?".
This has the same register and quality of outrageous unexpectedness in the context of 2 "world leaders" in both languages.
I can't think of a similar match for the second phrase....yet.


----------



## perpend

manfy said:


> I'd go with "Bock zu vögeln?" = "Fancy a fuck?".



I understand that, but it's BrE for me, not that it's a big deal. I see what you mean though, manfy. There are probably more idiomatic/creative ways.

This could work: Horny/randy right now?


----------



## Sepia

Josepo100 said:


> May anybody give me the exactly meaning of this meme?:
> http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=...d=0CB0QMygAMABqFQoTCNHwx4Od98gCFYLAFAodScEBuw
> I know the meaning of the first sentence(Bock zu vögeln=Would you like to fuck?), but I don't find a translation that make sense at spanish at spanish orenglish.
> By the way:
> Wärs=wär's=contraction of war+es.
> Es mir Wurst=Es mir egal, I don't care, no me importa.
> So:Mir wärs Wurst= I don't care.
> Help please.
> Cheers



Well, even if it is pretty easy to translate the meaning of "Bock zu vögeln" you'll have a very very hard time to find a really good translation - I couldn't even come up with one. Because the really funny thing is that you have two different animals in the phrase - a buck and the birds - just meaning something totally different here. But if it came from your boyfriend or girlfriend, then I'd congratulate you and say "Schwein gehabt, dass sie Bock zu vögeln hat".


----------



## Hutschi

Hi, "Bock" is not an animal but a slang expression for wish or lust in your context.

I do not think about animals in this context of "Bock". (I do not know the etymology, however.)
Of course, Sepia is right, when you consider double meanings.
And if the wordplay is used, it will become really difficult.

"Mir wär's wurst" - here "Wurst" may also be used as wordplay.
Like the joke: English for Runaways - Englisch für Fortgeschrittene:
"To me it were sausages."

But I think you can find a good slang expression for "Mir wäre es egal".

Note that "wurst" is lowercase in standard spelling (like "egal").
And usually it is spoken "wurscht" (sh rather than s).
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/wurst

"Es ist mir Wurst" is a kind of folk etymology spelling.

"Mir wäre es wurscht" is a slang register but a little bit more polite than "Mir ist es Wurst!".
It does not have the connotation of denying "abweisend". "Mir ist es wurst" - here I hear as connotation "Lass mich in Ruhe". "Mir wäre es wurscht" - here it really means "egal".


----------



## Kajjo

Das stimmt, Hutschi. Wenn die Bedeutung "egal" gemeint ist, wird es überregional immer "wurscht" gesprochen, unabhängig vom Dialekt. Die Schreibweise "Wurst" ist seltsam und irritierend, wenn "egal" gemeint ist.

Bock meint hier NICHT das Tier. Weder denkt man als Muttersprachler daran, noch entspricht das der Etymologie. Klar, je länger man über so einen Spruch nachdenkt, desto mehr mögliche Bedeutungen kommen in den Sinn und ich will nicht abstreiten, dass "Bock ... Vögeln" schon ganz witzig ist.

"Bock haben auf" im Sinne von "Lust haben auf" stammt laut Wikipedia ab von Rotwelsch und Romani "bokh" für Hunger: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null-Bock-Generation


----------



## manfy

I just thought of one version that brings across the very same idea and feel in English for me. It's not literal as anticipated, but it fits perfectly in conjunction with the picture:

"Fancy a fuck?
Phew ... if it's not a bother ..." 
For me, that's the gist of the German version with a similar level humor, similar register, and it fits perfectly to the picture!

I agree with perpend; I know, fancy as verb is very British, but I couldn't find any working American version. The crudely americanized version "Wanna fuck?" is totally off, even though it ultimately has the very same meaning.


----------



## berndf

perpend said:


> There are probably more idiomatic/creative ways.


Why? It sounds rather idiomatic to me. Or do you say it is unidiomatic because the phrase is placed into the mouth of an American?


manfy said:


> I can't think of a similar match for the second phrase....yet.


Yes, that is tricky. It means _I couldn't care less_ and _I wouldn't mind _simultaneously. I can't think of a an expression with this favourable/unfavourable symmetry.

PS:


manfy said:


> Phew ... if it's not a bother ..."


But this covers only the _I wouldn't mind _aspect and not the _I couldn't care less_ aspect, doesn't it?


----------



## Kajjo

_if it's not a bother_

 Gefällt mir!

Ist denn nicht auch _"I don't care"_ dicht dran?


----------



## manfy

Kajjo said:


> Ist denn nicht auch _"I don't care"_ dicht dran?


 
In spoken language proper intonation might make it work, but in written language most readers would think in a different direction than with "mir wär's wurscht" - in this specific context!


----------



## manfy

berndf said:


> But this covers only the _I wouldn't mind _aspect and not the _I couldn't care less_ aspect, doesn't it?


 
Yes! I'm saying that based purely on the feel of the expression "mir wär's wurscht" and "if it's not a bother" in comparable context.
I don't even try to consider the other connotations that surely exist. I've tried that in the past with some idioms and special sayings and my conclusion was and still is: there is just no way for a perfectly perfect translation from one language to the next.


----------



## Josepo100

First thank you so much for the so fast replies(I put the same thread at Spanish-Deutsch and anybody still haven't replayed it :/).
For this 15 year-old new member it's a pleasure see  this forum works(just a defect, lack of emojis hahaha) in this really good way and have a very veteran learned and multilingual people at his complete disposal. I study german since a year ago by my own, my uncle lives at Switzerland, yeah, i barely know to write a two sentences but I'd like to go there someday knowing more than ,,Wie geht's?" hahaha. In spite of I ain't got time 'cause the high school stuff, I'll never leave the german.
By the way:
-In the case of screw of Obama and Merkel, I think it'll be a bother for Merkel, you know what I meanhahaha.
-New Useful Question: Bock  zu vögeln?
< ... >


----------



## jinxnao

Können sie zusammefassen es in kurz?


----------



## Hutschi

Short summary:
*"Bock zu vögeln?"* is a slang expression asking "Would you like to fuck?".
But because it is slang, it might be necessary to translate to slang.

Proposals were: "Fancy a fuck?" and "Wanna fuck? (with several difficulties of register and usage.)

"Bock" and "vögeln" have homophones "der Bock" (a billy goat or a ram), and "die Vögel" -> den Vögeln (the birds) (Dativ)

This might be used for wordplay, in this case it would be hard to translate properly, because the wordplay "billi goat to the birds" does not work in English.


*"Mir wär's wurst"* (note corrected spelling) = Mir wäre es egal. =It makes no difference to me.
"Wurst" is spoken with "sh" rather than "s" like  (english spelling) "woorsht". (See Ablativs next post with better rendition.)


----------



## ablativ

Hutschi said:


> "Wurst" is spoken like (english spelling) "woorsht".


*v*oorsht


----------



## jinxnao

Okay , I understand  the sentence literally but I can not see the joke and spirit of the meaning in this picture.


----------



## Kajjo

The picture is not that funny. I can't really laugh, too. It is just about this two world-leaders with the peculiar expression an Merkels face and stupid sexual words put into their mouth. Is it funny? I don't think so, but other obviously like such jokes.


----------



## Hutschi

You are right. That is the other side, the cultural one. 
"Vögeln" is a kind of taboo word in official context. It is much more taboo than English "Fuck" - as far as I understand.

To me it is not funny in the picture.
By the way, I did not consider the picture until now. Uppercase letters make homophones to homonymes. So there are indeed two meanings.

 All not very funny, but during the last weeks there is a tendency to make Mss. Merkel to scapegoat for international politics nowadays. So there are lots of caricatures now in a coarse sense.

The spirit of that picture is the spirit of Pegida.


----------



## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> scapegoat


Another analogy to _Bock_?


----------



## Hutschi

Vielleicht. Sündenbock.


----------



## Kajjo

Anyway, I am sure this analogy was not intended. It is a primitive joke and the "Bock" is not a ram, but "Fancy...?".


----------



## Hutschi

Because of the context, I'm also sure.
It is a kind of joke to create hatred, that is why it is not really a joke.


----------



## perpend

I understand "Bock" just like "Lust". Is there really deeper meaning from journalists?

I think we need a *vanilla* version.

A) Bock/Lust auf Radfahren?
B) Naja, mir wäre es wurst.
A) Dann treffen wir uns an der XXX-Brücke so gegen 14.00 Uhr? Alles klar?
B) Ja, okay, machen wir halt so. Bis bald.

EDIT: It seems like "Lust" and "Bock" was covered above.


----------



## perpend

Hutschi said:


> Because of the context, I'm also sure.
> It is a kind of joke to create hatred, that is why it is not really a joke.



I don't really see any hatred.

I thought of a different interpretation. Obama and Merkel are going to "f**" the world (together).

The more I read, the more I'm not sure.


----------



## manfy

perpend said:


> I thought of a different interpretation. Obama and Merkel are going to "f**" the world (together).
> 
> The more I read, the more I'm not sure.


Naaah, come on!
Of course, the potential interpretations are endless, but I think it's up to each individual to decide where the joke starts and where it ends. 

"Obama and Merkel are going to "f**" the world (together)." would not even be overly funny because they actually can do that --- and to some degree they do do that, by making various questionable decisions just for the purpose of getting their names into the history books or on the Nobel Price list before their term is over.

The crude and rather vulgar sexual proposition however is rather funny, simply because those world leaders have been practically stripped of "normal" human qualities, such as sex drive, in the public eye, exactly because of their functions as world leaders. The assumed incompatibility based on age and visual appearance helps to enhance this impression even further.
If others don't find this funny at all then it's fine with me, but speaking for myself, I surely can get a giggle out of the thought of such a scenario.


----------



## Dan2

I see the interpretation and the humor as manfy does (although I'm not _quite _as cynical as he is about Obama's and Merkel's motivation for what they do...).

I agree with perpend that "Fancy a ...?" is excessively British.  I'd say, "Care for a <noun>?" or "Care to <verb>?" or "Feel like <verb>ing?".  I think that works for everyone.



Hutschi said:


> "Vögeln" is a kind of taboo word in official context. It is much more taboo than English "Fuck" - as far as I understand.


I can't be absolutely certain about the status of the German verb, but it's hard for me to believe that it's "much more taboo" than (at least American) English "to fuck".


----------



## perpend

manfy said:


> ... I surely can get a giggle out of the thought of such a scenario.



I get both a giggle and a chuckle, and I chalk it up to good satire, which I consider it to be.


----------



## perpend

Dan2 said:


> I can't be absolutely certain about the status of the German verb, but it's hard for me to believe that it's "much more taboo" than (at least American) English "to fuck".



I agree with Dan about "voegeln", for what it's worth. It's plus-minus zero, for me.


----------



## manfy

Dan2 said:


> I'd say, "Care for a <noun>?"


 
That works perfectly for me. It carries the same superficial politeness as "Fancy a ...?", something you would normally expect in such political and diplomatic gatherings, followed by an outrageous, unthinkable proposal.



Dan2 said:


> I can't be absolutely certain about the status of the German verb, but it's hard for me to believe that it's "much more taboo" than (at least American) English "to fuck".


 
In their meanings of "to copulate" both words have the same register and are equally taboo. But the figurative use of "fuck" (which does not exist at all for German "vögeln") has reached a very different level of acceptance these days. You can also hear it from people who normally would use only formal language, when the situation calls for it and when they want to express extreme annoyance and displeasure.


----------



## berndf

Dan2 said:


> I can't be absolutely certain about the status of the German verb, but it's hard for me to believe that it's "much more taboo" than (at least American) English "to fuck".


No, it isn't, you are quite right. Maybe Hutschi isn't aware that it is moderately acceptable in public only if it is _not _used literally, as Manfy said.


----------



## Hutschi

perpend said:


> I get both a giggle and a chuckle, and I chalk it up to good satire, which I consider it to be.





berndf said:


> No, it isn't, you are quite right. Maybe Hutschi isn't aware that it is moderately acceptable in public only if it is _not _used literally, as Manfy said.



Maybe this is it, I compared it indeed in a wrong way.
There are many places in movies and books where they use "fuck" in some way, while I never saw or heard the word "vögeln" this way.
Because I was (unfortunately) very seldom in English speaking countries, I was primed by movies, newspapers, pictures in Internet and literature.

When Angela Merkel accepted the Irak war, there were similar pictures were she moved into the asshole of Mr. Bush, and such jokes.
I did not like her politics at that time, but I do not appreciate such jokes.
It goes further on, latest "Jokes" were pictures with gallows for Angela Merkel and Siegmar Gabriel at "Montagsspaziergang" by Pegida.

No, I cannot laugh. Das Lachen bleibt mir in der Kehle stecken.

Maybe because I live in Dresden, and I am primed by the death of Gomonday (right-wing youth throw him out of a tram so he died, and due to people where throwing stones at Mila, a collegue from the Phillipines. I helped her bringing her to the hotel each day.)

The rain of yesterday does not make us wet ...


----------



## Frank78

Dan2 said:


> I can't be absolutely certain about the status of the German verb, but it's hard for me to believe that it's "much more taboo" than (at least American) English "to fuck".



At least "to fuck" in the literal sense is much more harsh and taboo than "vögeln", in my opinion.

"Vögeln" is still weaker than "ficken".


----------



## Kajjo

Frank78 said:


> "Vögeln" is still weaker than "ficken".


Absolutely. _Vögeln _is a vulgarity, but it is quite cute in some way. _Ficken_ is just utterly primitive.

I England they do not use _fuck_ a lot, but avoid it in public quite carefully, as far as my personal experience goes. "Damn" or "bloody" are replacements, where many Americans would use "fuck". So in my personal feeling, "fuck" in America is less strong ans a lot more frequent than "ficken" in German.

_Ficken_ is used rarely in German and almost exclusively with real sexual connotation. Whereas "fuck" ist used quite a lot to mean something like a general derogative adjective, but mostly not really about sex.


----------



## Frank78

Kajjo said:


> So in my personal feeling, "fuck" in America is less strong ans a lot more frequent than "ficken" in German.



But I meant the literal sense, i.e. to have sexual intercourse. That's not common in the US either.


----------



## manfy

Frank78 said:


> But I meant the literal sense, i.e. to have sexual intercourse. That's not common in the US either.


 
I have a similar experience.
Don't be fooled by Hollywood movies that use the word excessively. They're often using it to address their target audience for sales reasons and they are justifying it by calling it authentic representation of colloquial language.
In real life, once you're in the close circle of friends, all those language taboos fall, but as soon as somebody joins from outside this circle, it goes back to euphemisms like "the f-word" and "f-ing" or an avoidance of the term altogether. The concept is not really much different from the German way of treating this.


----------



## JClaudeK

Hutschi said:


> It is a kind of joke to create hatred, that is why it is not really a joke.


Inwiefern?
Ich finde das (Bild + Text) einfach lustig, eben weil ich mir Angela und Barack nicht beim "Vögeln" vorstellen kann. (Ich komme dabei auf keinerlei Hintergedanken wie z.B. _"Obama and Merkel are going to "f**" the world (together)_"!
Die Angela ist nun mal ein gefundenes Fressen für Karikaturenzeichner: http://www.les-crises.fr/merkel-sarkozy/


----------



## Frieder

JClaudeK said:


> Ich finde das (Bild + Text) einfach lustig, eben weil ich mir Angela und Barack nicht beim "Vögeln" vorstellen kann. (Ich komme dabei auf keinerlei Hintergedanken wie z.B. _"Obama and Merkel are going to "f**" the world (together)_"!
> Die Angela ist nun mal ein gefundenes Fressen für Karikaturenzeichner



Da kann ich dir nur vollinhaltlich recht geben . 

Für mich steht dieses Bild ganz in der Tradition der "Frankfurter Schule" - irgendwie lustig, aber ziemlich gaga. Mich würde auch nicht wundern, wenn es in einem nach einem bekannten Passagierschiff benannten Satireblatt erschienen wäre ...


----------

