# Moving to find work



## eno2

Hello, 

<*Moving to find work* would have meant leaving her dear ones.>

I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.

The translation to Greek  goes like this*: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά* θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.

I can't understand how this * της προκειμένου *works.  What is * της προκειμένου ? *

I would have said:
Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
τους αγαπημένους της


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## velisarius

*Η μετακόμισή της * - Her moving/removal
*προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά -* in order to find work
_θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα_. - would mean leaving her loved ones behind.


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## eno2

Thanks. 
Understood.


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## Perseas

eno2 said:


> I would have said:
> Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
> τους αγαπημένους της


Yes, here _προκειμένου να = για να_

A colloquial way to express this could be "_Το να μετακομίσει_ (not _μετακομίζοντας_) _για να βρει δουλειά_ _θα σήμαινε να αφήσει πίσω τους αγαπημένους της_", which means that you were close enough , but still I prefer *velisarius*' sentence!


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## eno2

Thanks for the remark and the extra way to say it. .


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## velisarius

That's kind of you, Perseus, but it wasn't my sentence. 

I think eno found it here:
πρόσωπα - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com.

*προκειμένου*  is an odd little word because (to an English speaker) it has several different meanings.

Here are some examples from the old William Crighton Greek-English Dictionary (The original uses the older, polytonic spelling) :

_*Προκειμένου να* ζημιωθείς, αποσύρω την πρότασίν μου.
*Rather than* see you suffer a loss, I withdraw my suggestion.

*Προκειμένου να *μετοικήσω, επώλησα μερικά εκ των επίπλων μου.
*Since* I was to move to another house, I sold some of my furniture. _

But perhaps it deserves a thread of its own, eno.


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## Perseas

@velisarius 

You're welcome 



velisarius said:


> *προκειμένου*  is an odd little word because (to an English speaker) it has several different meanings.


This is true and this is why I've written "here":


Perseas said:


> Yes, here _προκειμένου να = για να_


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## eno2

That's already 3 different uses of _*Προκειμένου να*_ , 'rather than, since, to'.
To understand it(s use a little) better: Where does that word come from? What's it related to?
Ah, now I remember: *πρόκειται* να, with complex uses...


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## Perseas

eno2 said:


> That's already 3 different uses of _*Προκειμένου να*_ , 'rather than, since, to'.
> To understand it(s use a little) better: Where does that word come from? What's it related to?


Τhe impersonal verb "πρόκειται" means "be about to", "shall, will be about".
Example: _She is about to become the youngest scientist to win the Nobel Prize./Πρόκειται να γίνει η νεώτερη επιστήμονας που θα κερδίσει το Βραβείο Νόμπελ.
προκειται - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com_

In terms of grammar, "προκειμένου" is a participle of the classical verb "πρόκειμαι", in the genitive singular (nominative: προκείμενος).
_[...]προκειμένου < προκείμενος < πρόκειμαι < πρό + κεῖμαι_
προκειμένου - Βικιλεξικό

"προκειμένου να" is used as  a causal or final conjunction.


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## eno2

Cross posted, while editing #8.  I was indeed thinking of πρόκειταi  now.
I read the definition and examples now of πρόκειταi WR
Interesting to me is




"Thou shalt not kill"

because I remembered : *πρόκειται να *as a kind of command or something 'that should happen'


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## Librarian44

No, eno2. Πρόκειται να has a sense of imminence not of command. It comes from πρόκειμαι (as Perseas already said), which means "lie ahead or before/in front of". Thou shalt not kill can only be translated: "Ου φονεύσεις" (as translated from Hebrew in the 3rd c. BC)


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## velisarius

The _shalt not kill _example is unfortunate. The example sentences in the bilingual dictionaries are not always to be trusted. I don't know where they come from. 

Someone else raised this point in the 'Comments and Suggestions' forum, but got no real answer:

Question on sentences when searching words


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## Αγγελος

Πρόκειται (impersonal verb, only used in the present and imperfect tense(επρόκειτο)) has two different uses:
1) with για+accusative  or περί+genitive it means the same thing as Spanish 'se trata de' or Dutch 'het gaat over'. Πρόκειται για πολιτικό ζήτημα = This is a question of politics. Περί τίνος πρόκειται; = What is it all about?
2) with να+subjunctive it is another way of expressing futurity. Πρόκειται (επρόκειτο) να γίνουν εκλογές στις 7 Ιουλίου = Elections are (were) to be held on July 7.
Προκειμένου is historically a participle absolute of πρόκειται, but in addition to the meaning derived from πρόκειται (1)
[προκειμένου για θέματα/ περί θεμάτων γραμματικής... = concerning matters of grammar...]
it also has two specific and almost contrary uses in moderen Greek:
2a) προκειμένου να is a polysyllabic equivalent of για να = in order to: Προκειμένου να ετοιμαστεί για τη δίκη, μελέτησε τη σχετική νομολογία = To prepare for the trial, he studied the relevant jurisprudence.
2b) but it can also mean "faced with the unpleasant prospect of", "rather than": Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε = Faced with having to stand trial, he disappeared.


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## dmtrs

Αγγελος said:


> 2a) προκειμένου να is a polysyllabic equivalent of για να = in order to: Προκειμένου να ετοιμαστεί για τη δίκη, μελέτησε τη σχετική νομολογία = To prepare for the trial, he studied the relevant jurisprudence.
> 2b) but it can also mean "faced with the unpleasant prospect of", "rather than": Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε = Faced with having to stand trial, he disappeared.



And here's where our foreign friends regret they ever dealt with Greek:
According to Αγγελος' (perfectly correct) remarks the phrase 
"Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2b) 
has exactly the same meaning with the phrase 
"Προκειμένου να *μην* δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2a)!


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## διαφορετικός

dmtrs said:


> "Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2b)
> has exactly the same meaning with the phrase
> "Προκειμένου να *μην* δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2a)!


It seems that the reader must guess whether the positive or the negative expression is the goal of the action.


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## Παντελής

eno2 said:


> Hello,
> 
> <*Moving to find work* would have meant leaving her dear ones.>
> 
> I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.
> 
> The translation to Greek  goes like this*: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά* θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.
> 
> I can't understand how this * της προκειμένου *works.  What is * της προκειμένου ? *
> 
> I would have said:
> Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
> τους αγαπημένους της


Translation *Moving to find work =* "κινείται  για να βρει δουλειά" Not necessarily leaving anyone behind, (looking around moving energetically in order to find a work (for one to find work should be moving around from from place to place looking


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## Παντελής

eno2 said:


> Hello,
> 
> <*Moving to find work* would have meant leaving her dear ones.>
> 
> I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.
> 
> The translation to Greek  goes like this*: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά* θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.
> 
> I can't understand how this * της προκειμένου *works.  What is * της προκειμένου ? *
> 
> I would have said:
> Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
> τους αγαπημένους της


μετακόμιση = removal, Κινείται =  *Moving *


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## eno2

Moving is ambiguous. The exact expression is 'moving house'. 
I must say I'm also prone to use 'move'/moving, for short, instead of 'moving house', which makes it unequivocal. In any case, my consultation was s about 'moving house'.


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