# power / force



## ThomasK

I suppose there is that kind of distinction in most languages, but I wonder whether they match in use... 

We have _macht_ (power, see _might_ in older English) and kracht (more positive in general): 

1 - _politieke macht_ (power)
2 - _met alle macht_ (with might and main (!)) 
3 - _fysieke kracht/ macht_ (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force)
4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower) 
5 -_ x³_ - tot de derde macht (exponentiation)
6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity)
7 - _zachte kracht_ (soft power)
8 - _krachten bundelen_ (join forces (!))
9 - _de drijvende kracht_ (driving force)
10 - _de macht van de gewoonte_ (the force of habit)

I am sure there will be more. Go on counting from 11 onwards !


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*«Ισχύς»* (is'çis, _f._); Classical feminine noun «ἰσχὺς» (īs'xūs)-->_might, power_, PIE base *weyǝ-, _power_, cognate to Latin _vis_ («ἰσχὺς» in Mycenaean Greek is «ϝὶς»-->*wīs)
*«Δύναμη»* ('ðinami, _f._); Classical feminine noun «δύναμις» ('dŭnāmīs)-->_force, might, ability, bodily strength_ with unclear etymology.
*«Σθένος»* ('sθenos, _n._); Classical neuter noun «σθένος» ('stʰĕnŏs)-->_power, might, moral authority_, with obscure etymology.
*«Ρώμη»* ('romi, _f._); Classical feminine noun «ῥώμη» ('rhōmē)-->_bodily strength_, with obscure etymology.



			
				ThomasK said:
			
		

> 1 - _politieke macht_ (power)-->ισχύς
> 2 - _met alle macht_ (with might and main (!))-->ισχύς
> 3 - _fysieke kracht/ macht_ (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force)-->ρώμη, δύναμη
> 4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower)-->ισχύς
> 5 -_ x³_ - tot de derde macht (exponentiation)-->δύναμη
> 6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity)-->δύναμη
> 7 - _zachte kracht_ (soft power)-->ισχύς
> 8 - _krachten bundelen_ (join forces (!))-->δύναμη
> 9 - _de drijvende kracht_ (driving force)-->δύναμη
> 10 - _de macht van de gewoonte_ (the force of habit)-->δύναμη



11 - _Eendracht maakt macht/L'union fait la force/Einigkeit macht stark _(Unity makes strength)-->ισχύς (in Greek your national motto is translated/rendered with a common ancient Greek phrase - found in Homer's Iliad): «Ἰσχὺς ἐν τῇ Ἐνώσει»


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## Maroseika

Russian: generally we also have this distinction between power (*мощь, мощность*) and force (*сила*). In some cases, force (сила) is used exactly like in English, most likely - because it was just calqued. But in some cases we use just another words at all, this refers to:
- exponentiation (we use *степень *- degree) 
- hydropower (we use *энергия *- energy)

And as far as I understand, in Dutch you don't use any of these words for physical conception of power? Therefore I dared to add # 11.

1 - _politieke macht_ (power) сила
2 - _met alle macht_ (with might and main (!)) сила
3 - _fysieke kracht/ macht_ (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force) сила, мощь
4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower) энергия
5 -_ x³_ - tot de derde macht (exponentiation) степень
6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity) сила
7 - _zachte kracht_ (soft power) сила
8 - _krachten bundelen_ (join forces (!)) сила
9 - _de drijvende kracht_ (driving force) сила
10 - _de macht van de gewoonte_ (the force of habit) сила
11 - _arbeidsvermogen_ (?) (power = work/time)  мощность

I am sure there will be more. Go on counting from 11 onwards ![/QUOTE]


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## Frank78

German:



ThomasK said:


> 1 - _politieke macht_ (power) - politische Macht
> 2 - _met alle macht_ (with might and main (!))  - mit aller Macht/mit aller Kraft (the former is much more common)
> 3 - _fysieke kracht/ macht_ (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force) - körperliche/physische Kraft
> 4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower)  - Wasserkaft
> 5 -_ x³_ - tot de derde macht (exponentiation) - X hoch 3 (no power in German)
> 6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity) - Schwerkaft
> 7 - _zachte kracht_ (soft power) - sanfte Gewalt (lit.: "soft violence"; it doesn't work with Kraft or Macht)
> 8 - _krachten bundelen_ (join forces (!)) - Kraft bündeln
> 9 - _de drijvende kracht_ (driving force) - treibende Kraft
> 10 - _de macht van de gewoonte_ (the force of habit) - die Macht der Gewohnheit


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## Outsider

In Portuguese, generally speaking, force is _força_ and power is _potência_. However, depending on the context power can also be translated as:

_poder_ (political power)
_energia_ (source of energy), for example _energia elétrica_ = electrical power

On the other hand, _força_ can also mean "strength". Other frequently used words are _capacidade_, "ability/capability", and _vigor_ "vigor/strength".


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*.



ThomasK said:


> I suppose there is that kind of distinction in most languages, but I wonder whether they match in use...
> 
> We have _macht_ (power, see _might_ in older English) and kracht (more positive in general):
> 
> 1 - _politieke macht_ (power)
> 2 - _met alle macht_ (with might and main (!))
> 3 - _fysieke kracht/ macht_ (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force)
> 4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower)
> 5 -_ x³_ - tot de derde macht (exponentiation)
> 6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity)
> 7 - _zachte kracht_ (soft power)
> 8 - _krachten bundelen_ (join forces (!))
> 9 - _de drijvende kracht_ (driving force)
> 10 - _de macht van de gewoonte_ (the force of habit)



1. _poliittinen valta / mahti_ (somewhat rare and poetical, but not uncommon)

Also:

_julkinen valta (state), taloudellinen valta (consumers), ideologinen valta (political parties, the church), asiantuntijavalta (scientists_), _median valta_ (_TV_), _näkymätön valta_ (_traditions, values_)

(Adapted from: Kansalainen ja yhteiskunta, Arola/Aromaa/Haapala/Hentilä/Kauppinen, 1.-3. painos 2006, pg. 38)

2. _kaikin voimin / hartiavoimin
_ (by all powers / [_hartia_ means a shoulder])
3. _fyysinen voima, voimankäyttö_ ('power use')

But: _fysikaalinen voima _- physical force
_ fysikaalinen teho _- physical power

4. _vesivoima_ (also: _tuulivoima_, but: _maalämpö_, _aurinkoenergia_)
5. _x (korotettuna) kolmanteen (potenssiin)_: lit. 'x raised to the third power', note: potens < lat. *potere*!
6. _painovoima_ (_vetovoima_ - attraction force)
7. _pehmeä voima_
8. _yhdistää voimansa, lyödä hynttyyt yhteen_ (don't ask what _hynttyyt_ are, I don't know )
9. _käyttövoima_, maybe?

#9 was a tough one. The Germanic verb drijv-/driv-/... has several meanings: Engl. _drive a car_, Sw. _nöden drev honom till det_ (hardship led him to this), _driva valkampanjen _(wage the electoral campaign), _båten har drivit i land_ (the boat has drifted...), operate a machine, more. I assumed you were referring to the driving force of a machine, eg. water that rotates a wheel operates an automatic jigsaw.

10. ??, I think in Finnish this would be based on _voima_. Cf: _halauksen voima (~ of a hug), kuvituksen voima (~ of an illustration)_...


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## Frank78

sakvaka said:


> #9 was a tough one. The Germanic verb drijv-/driv-/... has several meanings: Engl. _drive a car_, Sw. _nöden drev honom till det_ (hardship led him to this), _driva valkampanjen _(wage the electoral campaign), _båten har drivit i land_ (the boat has drifted...), operate a machine, more. I assumed you were referring to the driving force of a machine, eg. water that rotates a wheel operates an automatic jigsaw.



In German, at least, "treibende Kraft" can also relate to a person or institution. I'm not sure if it works in English, too but it would go like this:
"Yitzhak Rabin was the driving force of/during the peace talks."


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## Istriano

*power *(Watt) potência
*force *(Newton) força

 (political) *power *- poder
_A_ _Praça_ _dos Três Poderes - __Three Powers Plaza_

It would be better to ask why some languages use the word *power *for_ political power _(_come to power_), while some other do not.


power - moč (Slovenian), moć (BCS)
political power - oblast (Slovenian), vlast (BCS)


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## ThomasK

Frank78 said:


> In German, at least, "treibende Kraft" can also relate to a person or institution. I'm not sure if it works in English, too but it would go like this:
> "Yitzhak Rabin was the driving force of/during the peace talks."


 
I am sure it does, and by the way I am fairly convinced that _to drive_ originally meant exerting (lots of) power, also in a figurative sense. It still does in some cases in our three West Germanic languages: he drove the cattle into the corral. That also implies keeping them in control, steering them that way. see also etymonline.org: 



> O.E. _drifan_ "to drive, force, hunt, pursue; rush against"


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## ThomasK

Istriano said:


> It would be better to ask why some languages use the word *power *for_ political power _(_come to power_), while some other do not.
> 
> 
> power - moč (Slovenian), moć (BCS)
> political power - oblast (Slovenian), vlast (BCS)


Why ? Are you suggesting one ought to use force in those cases? I think any kind of governing or ruling implies use of some kind of power (force?), be it literal or figurative/ administrative...


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## mataripis

In Tagalog, Power is Kapangyarihan/lakas   while Force is "Tulak"/Lakas. In sentences, there will be changes in word usage.  1.)  There is strenght in righteousness.(May lakas/tibay sa Katuwiran)  2.) The power of GOD is revealed through The Lord Jesus.(Ang kapangyarihan ng Maykapal ay naihayag sa pamamagitan ng Panginoong Yeshwah.)  3.) The Force of the wind become heavier as its temperature decreases.(Ang tulak ng hangin ay nabigat habang palamig ang hunab nito.) 4.)Gravitional force= tulak/hatak paibaba.


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## ThomasK

Someone pointed out to me that there might be this difference between the terms: 
- power, _kracht_ are non-relational, strictly speaking (_the power in me_)
- force is relational: force 'over'(?), _macht over_ someone... 

@mataripis: how come the Kapangyarihan is so long ?


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## tFighterPilot

In Hebrew there's Koaḥ which is closer to "force" and Otsma which means power (and also volume). However, it's not exact. For example, power station is Taḥanat Koaḥ.


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## ThomasK

Could you give some more examples, Mr tFP ? Thanks in advance !


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## tFighterPilot

Powerful - Rav Otsma\Otsmati
Aggressive - Koḥani
Manpower - Koaḥ Adam
Cardinality - Otsma


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## bibax

Czech:

force = *síla*
power = *moc*, in physics *výkon* (from vykonati = to do, to perform, to execute)
exponentiation = *mocnina* (artificially introduced)

In physics: *síla* (= force, abbr. F, unit: newton) is the cause of movement (*přitažlivá*/*gravitační síla* = gravity). *Výkon* (= power, abbr. P, unit: watt) is *práce* (= work, abbr. A or W, unit: joule) done per unit of time. However we say *koňská síla* (= horse power, an obsolete unit of power).

1 - politieke macht (power) = *politická moc* (*politická síla* is something else)
2 - met alle macht (with might and main (!)) = *vší silou*
3 - fysieke kracht/ macht (physical power, the latter one more negative, like force) = *tělesná*/*fysická síla*
7 - zachte kracht (soft power) ?
8 - krachten bundelen (join forces (!)) : *spojenými silami* = _viribus unitis_ was the motto of FJI and also the name of an Austro-Hungarian battleship
9 - de drijvende kracht (driving force) = *řídicí síla*
10 - de macht van de gewoonte (the force of habit) = *síla zvyku*

Eendracht maakt macht = *V jednotě je síla* (lit. In union there is force)

*síla* also means _intensity_: síla větru (wind strength)
In some context *síla* and *mocnost* also mean _thickness_ (e.g. of a coal seam).

Derived adjectives:
*silný* = strong; also thick, corpulent; intense, heavy (rain, traffic)
*mocný* = mighty, powerful, potent


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## ThomasK

Great! We also know _windkracht_, wind power. 

Interesting to see that you seem to use *síla* so very often, but you suggest that in politics the two are possible, but what is the difference then? No difference between 
- a person with _kracht_, inner power (something like power originating from selfconfidence)
- a person with _macht_, a strong impact on others ?


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## bibax

> ... in politics the two are possible, but what is the difference then?


Like in mechanics the *politická síla* (force) causes movement. The political parties are politické síly (forces). The trade unions can also be a politická síla. They all try hard to achieve the *politická moc* (power).

*Silný člověk* is a strong person/character with *vnitřní sila* (inner force, an ability to overcome obstacles).

(in another context *silný člověk* is a physically strong person or it is an euphemism for a fat/corpulent person)

*Mocný člověk* is a mighty person (e.g. a mighty ruler, king, etc.). He has *moc* (power, macht).


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## francisgranada

Hungarian

*erő* - force (e.g. in physics)
*hatalom* - power (e.g. political)

1 - politieke macht (power) = *politikai hatalom*
2 - met alle macht (with might and main (!)) = *minden erővel*
3 - fysieke kracht/ macht (physical powe) = *testi erő *
4 - _waterkracht_ (hydropower) - *vízi erő*
5 - exponentiation - *hatvány*
6 - _zwaartekrach_t (gravity) - *vonzerő, nehézségi erő*
7 - zachte kracht (soft power) ?
8 - krachten bundelen (join forces (!)) : *egyesített erővel*
9 - de drijvende kracht (driving force) = *vezető erő *(context needed)
10 - de macht van de gewoonte (the force of habit) = *szokás hatalma*


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## ThomasK

I am reacting one year later, FG, because the topic turned up again. As for my no. 7 : I am referring to some kind of 'soft drive', soft energy. Would you have a word for that? And maybe: is the difference clear-cut between the two ?


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

power: güç

force: zor


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## ThomasK

Thanks, A, but what is the precise difference? Could you illustrate that by referring to my examples ?


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> I am reacting one year later, FG, because the topic turned up again. As for my no. 7 : I am referring to some kind of 'soft drive', soft energy. Would you have a word for that? And maybe: is the difference clear-cut between the two ?


Could you tell me some example for the "soft drive" or soft energy? 
The difference between  *hatalom *and *erő *is clear, cca as between poder and fuerza in Spanish.


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## ancalimon

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, A, but what is the precise difference? Could you illustrate that by referring to my examples ?



güç:
Adam güçlü. (the man is powerful)
Güce tapıyor. (he-she worships power)
Düşman çok güçlü (the enemy is very powerful)

zor:
Dinde zorlama olmaz (There can be no enforcement in religion)
Kendini zorlama (Don't exert yourself)
Bu soru çok zor (This question is very hard)
Düşman zorlu (The enemy is hard to defeat (maybe they are weak we don't know the context))


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## ThomasK

As for* 'soft drive', *Francis... Some people have a powerful or forcefulconviction, which leads to imposing, whereas others are driven by some soft power/force (it may almost be contradictory in English, or a paradox): a conviction that does not impose itself, but is pure, non-violent, respectful though... powerful. Something like the power of conviction...

As for Turkish: 


> Dinde zorlama olmaz (There can be no enforcement in religion)
> Kendini zorlama (Don't exert yourself)
> Bu soru çok zor (This question is very hard)
> Düşman zorlu (The enemy is hard to defeat (maybe they are weak we don't know the context))


Interesting examples; 
- the first looks like forcing to, whereas we have a different verb for that (_dwingen_) - except for _ver-kracht-en_ (to rape), where we use the pos. kracht with a neg. prefix
- is this something like forcing oneself ? We could say : exert power,_ macht uitoefenen_, but not ourselves
- is this something like: _the question is very powerful _(= hard)? [we do not associate power with difficulty] 
- again: _the enemy is (too) powerful _?


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## francisgranada

In this case *hatás *could the term you are looking for (from the verb _hatni_). Somehow, as a native speaker, I do not associate this word with "force" or "power", but yes, finally it is some kind of force/power. 

*Hatás*, in some circumstances, can have a meaning near to "influence", but in Hungarian it's clearly not the same (influence is _befolyás _in Hungarian).


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## ThomasK

Quite OK, it is something like influence. There is a thin line sometimes between influence and power... ;-)..


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## francisgranada

As to the Turkish examples:

hard question - *nehéz* (heavy, Sp/It _pesante_)
enforcement - *erőszak *(derived from _erő _- force)
enemy - can be strong or can have power, two different things (*erő *resp. *hatalom* )
to exert - there are various verbs, one of them *erőlködni  *(derived from _erő _- force)


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Someone pointed out to me that there might be this difference between the terms:
> - power, _kracht_ are non-relational, strictly speaking (_the power in me_)
> - force is relational: force 'over'(?), _macht over_ someone...
> 
> @mataripis: how come the Kapangyarihan is so long ?


Power in Tagalog is "Kapangyarihan".  the root word is "yari" meaning to make it happen/done. "Pangyayari" is "the event that happen" This word is combination of mind and physical  abilities . the "Ka"  rule in word that signifies trait or characteristic . like in truth =1.) katotohanan  (from word tunay)  2.) Righteousness= katuwiran (from Tuwid=straight).  Force is more on physical aspect, need to exert to push someone or a thing.


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