# Children’s game?



## Spectre scolaire

The following passage in Modern Greek --

Στο αναμεταξύ, τ’αγόρια παίζανε γκελέμ γκελέμ.

-- contains the words *gelem gelem*. “In the meantime, the boys were playing _gelem gelem_”. 

Googling this lexical doublet I got a great number of sites about “The Roma Anthem”, but in my context the words have nothing to do with Gypsies. 

Somebody once claimed it is indeed a children’s game corresponding to “Come and get me!”, possibly the game called σκλαβάκια [sklavákia] in Greek. 

Is *gelem gelem* a doublet from Turkish gelemem, “I can’t come!”, shouted twice by children playing the game in question? 
​


----------



## ~ceLine~

If I could understand well your question -> I don't think so because these countries lived together many years & they heard the same voice so it is possible that those words look like each other but it doesn't mean thats have to be in the same mean.


----------



## ukuca

Through a web search, I encountered a Turkish folk song composed by Engin Nurşani and especially known by the performance of Oğuz Aksaç in his album “Oğuzname”. The song is played with “bağlama” and called “Ağlatma gelem”. Here, “gelem” could be a Kurdish word which I’m not familiar with, or, it could be a diverted form of “geleyim” (similar to French subjonctif) just as in another song that I recall “Kızlar kızlar gelem mi?”


----------



## Spectre scolaire

I might add that the word in question – a presumable loanword from Turkish! – occurs in a Greek novel depicting life _before the Population Exchange_ along the Black Sea coast.
​


----------



## zorspas

Spectre scolaire said:


> I might add that the word in question – a presumable loanword from Turkish! – occurs in a Greek novel depicting life _before the Population Exchange_ along the Black Sea coast.
> ​



I never heard a doublet "gelem gelem" or any resembling this, In some parts of the country some people using different accents those are considered as improper speaking patterns and the word you mentioning sounds me as might being used in any of those accents. So it seems a kind of the verb "gel". Considering those accents I think you offer about "gelemem" is not seem possible, it may be "geleyim" (well, now I will translate this word as "Should I come?" or I shall come(_meaning intention_) but these translations not giving the nuance of the word exactly. But close.) 

On balance you should some other languages also, too. I recommend you to check Armenian language, Kurdish and Laz language.

In Kurdish "gel" means "people" and "em" means "we".

If you give the depiction you seen on the novel I'll check it out again.


----------



## jaxlarus

My suggestıon is that the boys where just playing a ball game. Γκελ is the bounce of the ball when it hits the ground or any other surface.


----------



## ukuca

I've found a gypsy song performed by Romano Dives named "Gelem, gelem" in a compilation album (Road Of The Gypsies, Vol.2 - Track 10). Even though I couldn't identify the language, the inlay card of the CD says that he's Albanian. Maybe this could help.


----------



## Tangriberdi

Gelem is a regional variant of geleyim. 
Geleyim means let me come. And some local dialects in Egean and Thracian regions, also Eastern Anatolian dialects use it as Gelem.
So gelem gelem can be thoguht as a Let me come Duplication.


----------



## orhan

"gelem gelem" "geleyim geleyim" in kısaltılmış şekli. Burada bir tekrarlama var, o da anlaşılmasını pekiştirmek içindir, tıpkı "var var", tamam tamam" gibi.
Ben böyle bir oyun ismi duymadım, ama Yunanlılara Osmanlıdan geçmiş bir oyun adı olabilir. Çünkü biri birimize pek çok kelime alıp vermişiz.


----------



## ukuca

Bahsettiğim şarkıda bundan başka hiçbir sözcük tanıdık gelmiyor. Türkçe'ye benzetiyor olabiliriz; sonuçta "gelem" birden çok dilde biraraya gelebilecek bir ses kombinasyonuna benziyor.


----------



## Tangriberdi

zorspas said:


> I never heard a doublet "gelem gelem" or any resembling this, In some parts of the country some people using different accents those are considered as improper speaking patterns and the word you mentioning sounds me as might being used in any of those accents. So it seems a kind of the verb "gel". Considering those accents I think you offer about "gelemem" is not seem possible, it may be "geleyim" (well, now I will translate this word as "Should I come?" or I shall come(_meaning intention_) but these translations not giving the nuance of the word exactly. But close.)
> 
> On balance you should some other languages also, too. I recommend you to check Armenian language, Kurdish and Laz language.
> 
> In Kurdish "gel" means "people" and "em" means "we".
> 
> If you give the depiction you seen on the novel I'll check it out again.


No it cannot be Kurdish.
If it was, It should have been as Gela me. You know gel is a feminine word and em, we turns to me while referring to ours
Gela me means our folk.


----------



## ukuca

Folks check out this link; I think this will solve our problems: 
http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=djelem+djelem


----------



## dudasd

Gelem, gyelem or djelem really belongs to Gipsy language, but it can be borrowed as well. I've checked the link from the post above, and once you translate first verses, you already can see why it's hard to decide is it really a Gipsy word, or comes from some other language.

*Gyelem, gyelem, longone dromensa *
(I have been going down the *long* *roads*)

- longone - you recognize it in Roman languages, in English and German as well
- dromensa - from Greek word "dromos", probably.

*maladilem bakhtale romensa*
(I have been meeting *lucky* Gypsies)

- bakhtale - from Turkish word "baht" (of Persian origin)

In the language of Gipsies, suffix -em is used for the 1. p. sg. in perfect (or it's present perfect, I am not sure), so it could be easily added to the Turkish root gel-. Instead of "Geldim" or "Gelirdim", it becomes "Gelem", as well as "bahtlı" became "bakhtale", the same with "lungone" and "dromensa". Now I am finding a similar example in a traditional Gipsy song "Shimiyako bi poryako", but this time it's a mix of Serbian root and Gipsy suffix:

Me *uzdima* ando mungro Mile
(I put faith in my Mile)

Root uzd- is apparently Serbian (uzdati se - to put faith into smb.), with Gipsy suffix for present tense. (In Serbian it would be "uzdam (se)".)

Of course, this is just my own speculation, but it is very, very possible that the word "gelem" is of Turkish origin and that traveling Gipsies brought it to Greece in their own version. I guess it could be translated as: "I'm coming, I'm coming" (like a kind of a funny threat perhaps?).


----------



## avok

> I guess it could be translated as: "I'm coming, I'm coming"


 
Hi *dudasd*

"I am coming" or "I came" because you also said that: 



> suffix -em is used for the 1. p. sg. in perfect (or it's present perfect, I am not sure), so it could be easily added to the Turkish root gel-. Instead of "Geldim" or "Gelirdim", it becomes "Gelem",


----------

