# Beijing / Peking



## MingRaymond

It is the capital of China. I find that more people and more people like to use 'Beijing' instead of 'Peking' when they are writing in English. I am wondering if it is 'Beijing' or 'Peking' or some other spellings in your languages? I think it is 'Pechino' in Italian.


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## Outsider

In Portuguese, we usually say Pequim. 
Here's an interesting page about the transcription of Chinese characters.


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## Mutichou

In French, we call it Pékin.
Actually, Beijing can also be found, but I'd rather use Pékin.


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## Whodunit

In Germany, China's capital is called "Peking", although it _is_ possible to use "Beijing". But I'm afraid not everyone understands it.


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## Vela

In Spain, most people say Pekín, although Beijing is also used.


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## ILT

In México we used to call it *Pekín*, that's the way it was tought in schools; but for the last 20 years or so we went back to calling it *Beijing* and now kids are taught that Beijing is the capital of China.

Greetings


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## Ilmo

Finnish: We call it again *Peking*, as also earlier, but there war a period of some twenty years when the form *Beijing* was recommended. Both forms appear nowadays in Finnish texts, but in proportion 5:2 for the Peking alternative.


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## diegodbs

Vela said:
			
		

> In Spain, most people say Pekín, although Beijing is also used.


 
I agree with Vela. The word Beijing can be used at times in newspapers, but nobody says Beijing, we say Pekín.


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## amikama

MingRaymond said:
			
		

> It is the capital of China. I find that more people and more people like to use 'Beijing' instead of 'Peking' when they are writing in English. I am wondering if it is 'Beijing' or 'Peking' or some other spellings in your languages? I think it is 'Pechino' in Italian.


In Hebrew we used to say פקין/פקינג (Pekin/Peking) and now we say בייג'ינג (Beijing). However, we still say ברווז פקינג (Peking duck), not ברווז בייג'ינג (Beijing duck).


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## Jana337

In Czech we both say and write Peking. Beijing can be seen, too.

Jana


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## Anna Più

Hi,
In Catalan we say Pequín most of the times. We don't usually say Beijing.

A+


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## Brioche

The name of the capital of China is North Capital. 
Bei = north Jing = capital.  
This is the Mandarin pronuciation of the two characters.

Europeans came to southern China first.

In the southern Chinese dialects "North Capital" sounded like Peking to the Europeans, so they used that.

Many Chinese names sound quite different in different Chinese dialects.
Hong Kong (Fragrant Harbour) is the Cantonese pronunciation.
In Mandarin, it is Xiang Gang

To-day in Australia people say Beijing for the town.
However, the breed of dog is still Pekinese, and most people say "Peking Duck"

Incidentally, the J in Jing is pronouced very like the J in jingle.
Not like j in French.


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## cherine

In Arabic it's *bekin* بكين (Arabic doesn't have the letter/sound P), and the (i) is a long vowel (like f*ee*d)


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## Dahanwansui

MingRaymond said:
			
		

> It is the capital of China. I find that more people and more people like to use 'Beijing' instead of 'Peking' when they are writing in English. I am wondering if it is 'Beijing' or 'Peking' or some other spellings in your languages? I think it is 'Pechino' in Italian.


 
Bei=North  Jing=a political center or a commercial center

In ancient time,there once were two capitals used to govern a big land.

Today there are Beijing=north capital, Nan Jing=south captical,

Xi'an was Chang'an=center capital ,Luoyang=Dongjing=east capital


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## MingRaymond

Brioche said:
			
		

> In the southern Chinese dialects "North Capital" sounded like Peking to the Europeans, so they used that.



Yes, the pronunciation of Peking/Beijing in Cantonese is 'Bak King' which is quite similar to Peking.


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## Dalian

In Japanese, it's ペキン　（pekin）
And in Korean, 북경 (buk kyung)


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## Outsider

Brioche said:
			
		

> The name of the capital of China is North Capital.
> Bei = north Jing = capital.
> This is the Mandarin pronuciation of the two characters.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Incidentally, the J in Jing is pronouced very like the J in jingle.
> Not like j in French.


In standard Mandarin, the B in Beijing is pronounced as a nonaspirated P. The J represents a sound which does not truly exist in English, although you're right that the English J is a better approximation of it than the French J. See the link I posted above.


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## Brioche

Dahanwansui said:
			
		

> Today there are Beijing 北京 =north capital,
> Nan Jing 南京=south captical,
> Xi'an 西安 was Chang'an 長安 = center capital ,
> Luoyang 洛陽 = Dongjing東京 =east capital


 
The capital of Japan 東京 _Tokyo _means East Capital, too
The two characters are borrowed from Chinese.
So for a Chinese, Tokyo is "Dong Jing"

One of the former names for Hanoi was "East Capital".
Tonkin is also "East Capital", as in the "Gulf of Tonkin", 
and the northern most part of Viet-Nam.


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## toscairn

We aren't usually reminded of Tokyo being "East Capital" in daily lives, but it's a pleasant reminder! 



> Xi'an 西安 was Chang'an 長安 = center capital


Is "an"　(安 in Japanese) a Chinese character for "capital"? I've never known that.


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## Brioche

toscairn said:
			
		

> Is "an"　(安 in Japanese) a Chinese character for "capital"? I've never known that.


It means "peace", doesn't it?

Same as in Tian An Men 天安门 = "Heavenly Peace Gate" in Beijing.


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## Dalian

toscairn said:
			
		

> Is "an"　(安 in Japanese) a Chinese character for "capital"? I've never known that.


Definitely not. 安 means safety and peace, as in Japanese.


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## JJchang

MingRaymond said:
			
		

> I think it is 'Pechino' in Italian.



It is Pechino in Italian. I am wondering if the diminutive suffix -ino is intentional or not.


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## Brioche

JJchang said:
			
		

> It is Pechino in Italian. I am wondering if the diminutive suffix -ino is intentional or not.


 
The -ino in Pechino is _not_ a diminutive suffix.

There are other Italian words ending in -ino, which are not diminutives,
e.g. vino, pelegrino, assassino, delfino, &c.


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## apmoy70

In Greek it's *«Πεκίνο»* [peˈci.nɔ] and it's declinable according to the rules of MoGr grammar: *«το Πεκίνο»* [tɔ peˈci.nɔ] (neut. nom. & acc. sing.), *«του Πεκίνου»* [tu peˈci.nu] (neut. gen. sing.) etc.


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## Awwal12

It's Пекин (Pekín) in Russian. Бэйцзин (Beytszín) is entirely unfamiliar to the average population.


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## nimak

In *Macedonian* it is *Пекинг* ['pɛkiŋg]. The name *Бејџинг* ['bɛjd͡ʒiŋg] is mentioned in the Orthography of the Macedonian language too, but it is rarely used.


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## Piotr_WRF

In Polish it's _Pekin_. _Beijing_ is listed in dictionaries, but virtually never used elsewhere.


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## merquiades

When you adopt Beijing in your language, how do you pronounce it? In English it's pronounced as if it were a French word.  Both the e and i are pronounced, the j is as in Bonjour and the accent falls on the last syllable.  How is it supposed to be said in Mandarin?

Original English Peking has unfortunately fallen out of use except for recipes like Peking duck, Peking soup.


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## Awwal12

merquiades said:


> When you adopt Beijing in your language, how do you pronounce it?


The standard Russian transcription of 北京 would be "Бэйцзин" (beytszin) >> [bɨ̞ɪ̯'dʲzʲin].


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## apmoy70

merquiades said:


> When you adopt Beijing in your language, how do you pronounce it? In English it's pronounced as if it were a French word.  Both the e and i are pronounced, the j is as in Bonjour and the accent falls on the last syllable


Ιn Greek we don't use Beijing at all, only when referring to Chinese basketball (usually) teams eg Beijing Bucks. Then we transliterate it as *«Μπεϊτζίν»* [be.iˈʣ͡in] (neut. nom. sing.) and it's indeclinable: *«το Μπεϊτζίν»* [tɔ be.iˈʣ͡in] (neut. nom. & acc. sing.), *«του Μπεϊτζίν»* [tu be.iˈʣ͡in] (neut. gen. sing.).


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## Stoggler

merquiades said:


> In English it's pronounced as if it were a French word



It is?  I pronounce it /beɪˈdʒɪŋ/, as do many other English speakers.  There’s nothing French about that particular pronunciation.


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## AndrasBP

Only "Peking" is used in Hungarian. I would say the form "Beijing" is not even recognizable for most people.

.

In Lithuanian it's "Pekinas", because "-as" is the masculine nominative case ending (also Londonas, Madridas, Berlynas, etc.)


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## Zhuangzi

In Basque we use "*Pekin" *but "*Beijing*" is also accepted.


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## ewie

merquiades said:


> Original English Peking has unfortunately fallen out of use


You're at liberty to use it if you like, Merq.  I still do.  And I'm not talking about Peking duck or Peking soup, which I've _never_ talked about.


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## merquiades

ewie said:


> You're at liberty to use it if you like, Merq.  I still do.  And I'm not talking about Peking duck or Peking soup, which I've _never_ talked about.


Do you use Bombay too?  
I think with Peking though, it has so fallen out of use (at least in the US, and probably by force) that if you say Peking to millenials they might not know what you are talking about.


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## ewie

I still use Bombay and Calcutta and the one that's absolutely nothing like the-new-one-that-I-can-never-remember-anyway*.

*Just remembered it: old _Madras_, new _Chennai_ /ʧeˈnaɪ/

By the way, I agree with Stoggler about the pronunciation of _Beijing_ in BrE: /beɪˈdʒɪŋ/


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## merquiades

ewie said:


> I still use Bombay and Calcutta and the one that's absolutely nothing like the-new-one-that-I-can-never-remember-anyway.


Thanks for the info.  I hadn't realized that Calcutta had changed. Well, _Kolkata_ isn't so different.  We can say Calcutta and it will pass for Kolta.  _Chennai _is another story.

I'll have to pay attention and try to find a BBC documentary about Beijing-Peking.  Never heard that pronunciation.   Just the Frenchicized way /bei-ʒɪŋ'/   which might be actually American.   And by the way for the sake of the thread the French still say_ Pékin_ all the time.


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## ewie

I was typing my edit (above) while you were typing, Merq.


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## merquiades

ewie said:


> I was typing my edit (above) while you were typing, Merq.


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## Nem'o

merquiades said:


> Thanks for the info.  I hadn't realized that Calcutta had changed. Well, _Kolkata_ isn't so different.  We can say Calcutta and it will pass for Kolta.  _Chennai _is another story.
> 
> I'll have to pay attention and try to find a BBC documentary about Beijing-Peking.  Never heard that pronunciation.   Just the Frenchicized way /bei-ʒɪŋ'/   which might be actually Merican.   And by the way for the sake of the thread the French still say_ Pékin_ all the time.


We do! But things are starting to change, I think. It's just like Mumbai/Bombay. Almost everybody in France would say Bombay and Pékin. But I tend to see more and more Beijing and Mumbai (written, most of the time, especially for Mumbai) in news articles. 
I guess it's more politically correct to use the new name. Especially for Indian city names (Chennai, Mumbai, etc.). At least that's what I get from that whole double name situation. Madras and Bombay seem to have an old colonisation feel that is not OK anymore with the scholars and journalists. Or so it seems to me.


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## Dymn

I don't understand what's the big deal about languages using their own names for foreign placenames, especially in Asia. In Europe most big cities have different names in different languages. For example in English: Munich, Copenhagen, Venice, Athens, Seville, etc. It's not meant to be an offense, much to the contrary, it means the city's important enough for foreign cultures to use it often and therefore adapt it to their own language.


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## ewie

Dymn said:


> I don't understand what's the big deal about languages using their own names for foreign placenames, especially in Asia. In Europe most big cities have different names in different languages. For example in English: Munich, Copenhagen, Venice, Athens, Seville, etc. It's not meant to be an offense, much to the contrary, it means the city's important enough for foreign cultures to use it often and therefore adapt it to their own language.


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## Red Arrow

Flanders:
Peking rather than Beijing
Mumbai rather than Bombay

Beijing is one of the rare words that always seems to be pronounced with an English J sound rather than a French J. (well, in Flanders, that is)

(vrttaal.net agrees)

The Walloon village Bombaye is called Bolbeek in Dutch. The locals used to call it Bombelech (Low Dietsch / Limburgish), but the locals now only speak French.


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## merquiades

I have discovered that the Word Reference dictionary pronounces Beijing.    If my ear is right,  /Beɪˈdʒɪŋ/ is the UK-RP pronunciation and in all other English dialects it is /Bei-ʒɪŋ'/




Dymn said:


> I don't understand what's the big deal about languages using their own names for foreign placenames, especially in Asia. In Europe most big cities have different names in different languages. For example in English: Munich, Copenhagen, Venice, Athens, Seville, etc. It's not meant to be an offense, much to the contrary, it means the city's important enough for foreign cultures to use it often and therefore adapt it to their own language.


Part of it is political correctness and snobbiness.   You can really find some people say in a rather pretentious way.  "On our trip we drove from Lisboa to Sevilla and then took a cruise to Napoli."  They will feel good about themselves saying that.  This group is growing.  I don't think they go so far as to say Roma and Moscova.  Also there are the native countries who insist on the change.  I don't know if that is what happened with Beijing as it did with Bombay.  Strangely enough it's not always about imposing the native language place name.  Côte d'Ivoire demands their country be called the official French way in every language and gets miffed when someone says Ivory Coast, the traditional way of saying it in English.

@Red Arrow It's pretty wild they would want to name a town Bombay in Belgium.


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## Penyafort

merquiades said:


> I hadn't realized that Calcutta had changed. Well, _Kolkata_ isn't so different.



Calcutta is a good example of how our adoptions are mistakenly influenced by the spelling of the colonial language. Both in Spanish and Catalan we say Calcuta [kal'kuta][kəl'kutə], based on how it is written (not spoken) in English, when actually the English spelling tried to reproduce the local pronunciation. So for us, writing Kolkata or Colcata would be better in this case. But in our minds the name of Calcuta is now so ingrained that it will be hard to change. 

However, to me, it's completely different to the case of Beijing, and I'd be in favour of the change into Kolkata in my native languages, as it makes sense, corrects a historical mistake and simplifies things.


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## Red Arrow

Beijing also simplifies things, well, in English at least. The Chinese version starts with an unaspirated plosive, followed by AY, followed by an unaspirated affricate, followed by EE, followed by NG. The British pronunciation of Beijing is as close as possible.



merquiades said:


> @Red Arrow It's pretty wild they would want to name a town Bombay in Belgium.


The local likely can't pronounce the original name anymore, as ch is pronounced [ç], so the last syllable got dropped and the the spelling got Frenchified: Bombelech -> Bombaye.

Here is a list of all bilingual place names in Belgium: Lijst van Belgische plaatsen in twee talen - Wikipedia


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## merquiades

Red Arrow said:


> Beijing also simplifies things, well, in English at least. The Chinese version starts with an unaspirated plosive, followed by AY, followed by an unaspirated affricate, followed by EE, followed by NG. The British pronunciation of Beijing is as close as possible.".


So it should be Paycheeng.



> Here is a list of all bilingual place names in Belgium: Lijst van Belgische plaatsen in twee talen - Wikipedia


 So there are hundreds of places with two or three names in Belgium. It could be confusing...


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## Red Arrow

merquiades said:


> So it should be Paycheeng.


In English, P and CH are often aspirated and eeng is not a valid combination in English, so you end up with Bayjing.


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## Penyafort

Red Arrow said:


> Beijing also simplifies things, well, in English at least. The Chinese version starts with an unaspirated plosive, followed by AY, followed by an unaspirated affricate, followed by EE, followed by NG. The British pronunciation of Beijing is as close as possible.



In English, as you say. In Spanish, the _j_ being a [x], things are different.

In fact, the older transliteration methods sometimes fit Spanish better, as the Chinese pinyin b sounds like a Spanish p. The only problem would be the historical evolution of the k sound in the second syllable of the city. So the way to write it in Spanish that'd be closer to the Chinese pronunciation would probably be something like _*Peiching*_.


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