# New technology



## timpeac

Hi

It seems to me that at the moment that improvements in technology are occurring at such a rate that solutions to any problems caused by new technology are always lagging behind.

I am thinking of situations such as videos being able to be made on mobile phones - great you would think - but then these video phones being used in schools by bullies to record some humiliation or other of someone and pass it round. Another example would be this forum which allows like-minded people across the world to meet and chat, but because of its on-line nature leaves it open to childish attacks of rude messages etc as apparently happened the other day.

It seems that the internet etc is creating a very new world, and very quickly too. Do you think that this speed of innovation is desirable, or should we go a bit slower and think more about the implications of the technology we invent?


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## Benjy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> It seems to me that at the moment that improvements in technology are occurring at such a rate that solutions to any problems caused by new technology are always lagging behind.
> 
> I am thinking of situations such as videos being able to be made on mobile phones - great you would think - but then these video phones being used in schools by bullies to record some humiliation or other of someone and pass it round. Another example would be this forum which allows like-minded people across the world to meet and chat, but because of its on-line nature leaves it open to childish attacks of rude messages etc as apparently happened the other day.
> 
> It seems that the internet etc is creating a very new world, and very quickly too. Do you think that this speed of innovation is desirable, or should we go a bit slower and think more about the implications of the technology we invent?



interesting topic  my totally ignorant opinion on the matter is that whatever you do, invention-wise someone will find someway of abusing it, and that the only way to avoid people misusing technology is not to have any technology at all.


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## Lancel0t

timpeac said:
			
		

> Do you think that this speed of innovation is desirable, or should we go a bit slower and think more about the implications of the technology we invent?


 
Here is my 2 cents opinion. We humans have our own freewill and freedom, however, we usually forget that responsibility comes with these. Therefore, before our great inventors or discoverers will publish their inventions they should also consider the harmful effects and should find a way to counter it. We should take it slow.


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## OlivierG

You known, this problem is not new. The first man who invented fire didn't know it could be used to burn his neighbour's house. When inventing wheel, the inventor didn't think about using it as a torture device, and the knife hasn't been invented to make the Jack The Ripper's job easier.
Maybe the real problem comes from the human nature itself?


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## timpeac

OlivierG said:
			
		

> You known, this problem is not new. The first man who invented fire didn't know it could be used to burn his neighbour's house. When inventing wheel, the inventor didn't think about using it as a torture device, and the knife hasn't been invented to make the Jack The Ripper's job easier.
> Maybe the real problem comes from the human nature itself?


 
Very true. It does seem to me that the rate of invention is such at the moment that we are constantly lurching from a new technology based problem to another. In the past there were long periods of stability before the new invention was thought up.

I don't think it would be practical - leaving alone the question of whether it would be desirable - to slow down technology. I just wonder if there is a better way to deal with the problems, if they are going to be constantly arising.


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## Benjy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Very true. It does seem to me that the rate of invention is such at the moment that we are constantly lurching from a new technology based problem to another. In the past there were long periods of stability before the new invention was thought up.
> 
> I don't think it would be practical - leaving alone the question of whether it would be desirable - to slow down technology. I just wonder if there is a better way to deal with the problems, if they are going to be constantly arising.



the way to deal with it is to teach kids morals and ethics and demostrate that hapiness is not stepping on other people (cf bullying/humilation with mobile phones). then we won't have to worry about they will do when they get new stuff to play with. teach people right priciples and they will govern themselves.

spoons do not make people fat


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## VenusEnvy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Very true. It does seem to me that the rate of invention is such at the moment that we are constantly lurching from a new technology based problem to another. In the past there were long periods of stability before the new invention was thought up.


At times, I feel overwhelmed by our world's technology. I often imagine a time where people washed their plates by hand, and hung clothes up to dry in the sun, and wrote letters on paper. It's a much simpler life. I think that along with our technology comes a faster paced life. Faster computers, smaller cell phones, gidgets and gadgets. 



			
				timpeac said:
			
		

> I don't think it would be practical - leaving alone the question of whether it would be desirable - to slow down technology. I just wonder if there is a better way to deal with the problems, if they are going to be constantly arising.


Are you talking about improving user interface, or user morals?
There seems to be two problems, as I see it. Technology is expanding, but is not efficiently equipped to fix itself. I think there is an issue with "usability". And, as you have brought up, tim, I also agree that as each new technological advance, there seems to be an equal counterforce that tries to take advantage. There are on-line scams, michievous foreros, on-line gambling, etc. So, what could we do to deter such things from happening? Enact tighter regulations in computer/technology use? No, I'm not ready for another Patriot Act. Perhaps, mainsteam technology etiquette? Hmm, I don't see it catching on. What can we do?




Oliver: Yes!


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## timpeac

Both really, VenusEnvy, but more on the moral side.

I think Benjy's idea is the best - although very difficult to put into practice. Teaching morals is very difficult. For example, in the past if you hit someone in school you would be punished. You were punished for the hitting, as a manifestation of the underlying immoral act because it is easier to say "if you hit someone you will be punished" than "if you commit a morally objectionable act you will be punished". So today you are still are punished for hitting someone, but if someone stands by and videos it then sends it around for a laugh then that is equally morally objectionable, in a way perhaps more so, yet traditionally we are not set up to deal with it. Or rather we have to eventually, with a time lag during which people are bullied, put in place a new rule "you will be punished if you video someone being hit". But this is reactive rather than proactive, and therein lies the problem.

As Benjy says, the solution would be to teach people moral behaviour in the first place, but that is so difficult to define, let alone put into practice.


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## Benjy

timpeac said:
			
		

> As Benjy says, the solution would be to teach people moral behaviour in the first place, but that is so difficult to define, let alone put into practice.



that is why you avoid the question, and don't define it. i wish philosophy, rhetoric and making a good case for something would come back on the agenda (in schools). if you dont teach someone how to think, then how do you expect him to know how to make good choices? making people justify their own choices is an excellent way for them to work out what is right and wrong for themselves. i am a firm believer that people are good  and that when equipped with the faculties to choose between good and bad (broadest terms), hitting someone and not, stealing and not etc etc they will choose the right thing. give kids something to to chew on and they will learn. we dont give kids enough credit imho.


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## timpeac

Benjy said:
			
		

> that is why you avoid the question, and don't define it. i wish philosophy, rhetoric and making a good case for something would come back on the agenda (in schools). if you dont teach someone how to think, then how do you expect him to know how to make good choices? making people justify their own choices is an excellent way for them to work out what is right and wrong for themselves. i am a firm believer that people are good  and that when equipped with the faculties to choose between good and bad (broadest terms), hitting someone and not, stealing and not etc etc they will choose the right thing. give kids something to to chew on and they will learn. we dont give kids enough credit imho.


 
Putting it in schools would only be half the battle, though. The guidance really needs to start in the home. How could we encourage all parents to provide it? I don't believe that schools should exist in a moral vacuum, but I do think that their principal purpose should be pedagogical rather than moralistic . In other words, yes let's teach philosophy and the art/science of morality, but moral guidance has to come from the parents in the first place I think to put that philosophical teaching in context. For example, in the most simplistic terms, if parents don't make their kids go to school or show them the reason to value education, then whatever the school teaches will not reach them.


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## Benjy

true true, i didnt want to say anything about parenting because last time i got my head bitten off because i'm a little boy


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## jacinta

timpeac said:
			
		

> Putting it in schools would only be half the battle, though. *The guidance really needs to start in the home*. How could we encourage all parents to provide it? I don't believe that schools should exist in a moral vacuum, but I do think that their principal purpose should be pedagogical rather than moralistic . In other words, yes let's teach philosophy and the art/science of morality, but *moral guidance has to come from the parents in the first place * I think to put that philosophical teaching in context. For example, in the most simplistic terms, *if parents * don't make their kids go to school or *show them the reason to value education, then whatever the school teaches will not reach them.*


I have always believed this.  Thank you for putting this in print.  This is what makes the teacher's job so difficult.  If a student comes to school with strong values taught at home, the teacher is able to do his job.  His job is not to teach morals and values but more and more, this is what he spends most of his time doing. Without the support of parents, these lessons go unlearned. There is less time for content teaching.
I can see this discussion veering away from technology advances and developing into a conversation on morals.  The person who talks on his cellphone while driving or the parent who allows her child to watch R rated movies at age 6:  do we blame technology or moral upbringing?
I do know one thing: technology has made parenting very difficult!


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## OlivierG

And remember these kids will be parents themselves in only a few years or decades. 

What kind of parent will be the boy who humiliated his friend in order to share the video? Especially if he didn't get any lesson from this, and even didn't feel guilty?


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## zebedee

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I often imagine a time where people washed their plates by hand, and hung clothes up to dry in the sun, and wrote letters on paper.


 
That comment made me smile, Venus, because I still do!


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## la grive solitaire

zebedee said:
			
		

> That comment made me smile, Venus, because I still do!


 It made me smile as well, Venus, because I do, too...

Has anyone else read the recent study correlating social isolation, computer use, and a lack of social skills among university students? Apparently some colleges and universities in the U.S. are now offering classes for first-year students to teach them how to relate and interact.

This is an article about child development and technology http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/10-02/Post10-1-02.html
and here are some excerpts if you don't want to read the whole thing--it's good, but long...   

Instead of pumping their legs to send a swing soaring toward the sky, millions of children spend afternoons sitting passively in front of a screen watching TV or playing a video or computer game created by someone else. 

Even children who go home after school aren't necessarily using their time in creative play. One recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation showed that a typical American student spends more than 30 hours a week sitting in front of a computer, television or video game, or listening to music. 

Jane Healy, a psychologist, educator and author of "Failure to Connect: How Computers Affect Our Children's Minds and What We Can Do About It," says too many parents and policy-makers just don't understand the importance of play in children's development.

Most children do lots of adult-led play. This includes organized sports, physical education classes and extracurricular activities where rules must be followed. Even the most preferred playthings, such as computers, video games and other electronic toys, are generally scripted by adults.

Children, of course, have been playing for centuries. It was the 20th-century work of Jean Piaget that underlined the importance of play in children's development. Seymour Papert, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor who created the LOGO computer language, writes that Piaget showed us "children are not empty vessels to be filled with knowledge but active builders of knowledge -- little scientists who are constantly creating and testing their own theories of the world."

U.S. Alliance for Childhood is a part of an international partnership of individuals and organizations "committed to fostering and respecting each child's inherent right to a healthy, developmentally appropriate childhood." Based in College Park, Md., the alliance has focused its work on several areas, including questioning the need for computers for young children, stressing the importance of creative play and spotlighting problems with "high-stakes" standardized testing. Its Web site is: www.allianceforchildhood.org.


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## Benjy

la grive solitaire said:
			
		

> Has anyone else read the recent study correlating social isolation, computer use, and a lack of social skills among university students? Apparently some colleges and universities in the U.S. are now offering classes for first-year students to teach them how to relate and interact.



at exeter uni (the one in england ) the plan seems to be to have a freshers week where everyone gets incredibly drunk every night and so has many stoires and moments to share with the rest of the people on their floor. it seems to work rather well


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## VenusEnvy

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I often imagine a time where people washed their plates by hand, and hung clothes up to dry in the sun, and wrote letters on paper.


I have two down, one to go! Now, where can I hang the clothes-line? (looking out of my window to a crowded neighborhood)  


Zebee and La Grive: That's wonderful! I'm so jealous that you are able to live such a simple life. It seems as though some get stuck in a technology rut. 

La Grive: Thank you for the interesting information surrounding children and technology. I have noticed this all too many times visiting friends who have children. They don't play in dirt, or build forts, ride their bikes, or go on adventures (like I used to when I was a little girl). They all seem obsessed with video games, and the parents are none the wiser how debilitating this is.

Tim: It seems as though we've strayed from your original question, but not too far. I think we're doing a good job of talking about the problems that technology creates.


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## rainbow

"the way to deal with it is to teach kids morals and ethics and demostrate that hapiness is not stepping on other people (cf bullying/humilation with mobile phones). then we won't have to worry about they will do when they get new stuff to play with. teach people right priciples and they will govern themselves."

And what about new technology in nuclear missiles??? And what about war weapons?
Which is the moral to be taught to children, when we are slaughtering innocent ones just to steal oil reserves from other countries?
rainbow


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## Benjy

rainbow said:
			
		

> "the way to deal with it is to teach kids morals and ethics and demostrate that hapiness is not stepping on other people (cf bullying/humilation with mobile phones). then we won't have to worry about they will do when they get new stuff to play with. teach people right priciples and they will govern themselves."
> 
> And what about new technology in nuclear missiles??? And what about war weapons?
> Which is the moral to be taught to children, when we are slaughtering innocent ones just to steal oil reserves from other countries?
> rainbow



this is exactly what i am talking about. i don't know about you, but i have never invaded a country to get oil  but the thing is this: give one man a knife and he will think of ways he can use it as a tool to create, give another man a knife and he will wonder how he can use it to increase the power he wields over people who don't carry knives around with them.

i have always tried to base my choices on two criteria:

what effect does it have on me? what effect does it have on the people around me?

its a good starting point


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## DDT

Benjy said:
			
		

> this is exactly what i am talking about. i don't know about you, but i have never invaded a country to get oil  but the thing is this: give one man a knife and he will think of ways he can use it as a tool to create, give another man a knife and he will wonder how he can use it to increase the power he wields over people who don't carry knives around with them.
> 
> i have always tried to base my choices on two criteria:
> 
> what effect does it have on me? what effect does it have on the people around me?
> 
> its a good starting point



Do as you would be done by...if technology wasn't used to pursue economical (or whatever you can call them) aims this world could only be better off...I always considered the key issue is ethics...

DDT


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## rainbow

Ok. I agree with you about human nature.
As it was mentioned before, that parents are reponsible for children attitudes towards their pairs, another starting point would be to find out whether our nature (good or bad) can be modified by the environment, parents or school teaching.
As per your question, I have never invaded a country with such purposes either.  
Correct my mistakes, pleeeeeaaaaaassseeeeee.


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## zebedee

rainbow said:
			
		

> Correct my mistakes, pleeeeeaaaaaassseeeeee.


 
Ok, rainbow, here goes! 



			
				rainbow said:
			
		

> Ok. I agree with you about human nature.
> As it was mentioned before, that parents are reponsible for children's attitudes towards their peers/equals pairs, another starting point would be to find out whether our nature (good or bad) can be modified by the environment, parents or school teaching.
> As for your question, I have never invaded a country with those/such purposes either.


 
Hope this helps,
zeb


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## VenusEnvy

rainbow said:
			
		

> another starting point would be to find out whether our nature (good or bad) can be modified by the environment, parents or school teaching.


I don't think it's wise to start a nature-nurture debate here. It would turn into a zoo! This debate as to who has more influence over socialization (parents, media or school) has been a long standing debate in the sociological world. (Sorry, I had to bring that in.)


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## Ana Raquel

I am with Benjy.


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## germinal

Ana Raquel said:
			
		

> I am with Benjy.


 

I hope you will be very happy together!


Seriously though I too agree with Benjy's sound ideas on morality.   


Germinal.


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