# Some 24,034 students will protest in London today



## shabbadabbadoo

Hallo,

ich frage mich, wie man in diesem Sinn "some" uebersetzen kann?

Mein Versuch:

Einige 24 034 Studenten werden heute in London demonstrieren

Falls es andere Fehler gibt, bitte sag mir bescheid

danke!


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## dec-sev

I've always thought that "some" in such cases means "about" or "appriximately". Right?


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## Demiurg

Im Prinzip kann man "einige" benutzen, aber nicht wenn es um eine exakte Zahl wie 24 034  und die Zukunft geht. 

_Einige tausend Studenten werden heute in London erwartet, wo eine Demonstration gegen ... geplant ist._


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## shabbadabbadoo

some in this context refers to a significant number. It emphasises that 24 034 is quite a large amount of students.


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## berndf

This is a very special use of "some + number" using it with an exact number. It expresses emphasis. If I understand the sentence correctly, it means that the author regards the number of students having registered for the protest march to be an important one (See here for context). Do you agree, Shabbadabbadoo?


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## Gernot Back

shabbadabbadoo said:


> some in this context refers to a significant number. It emphasises that 24 034 is quite a large amount of students.


In this case I would take "_immerhin_":
_Immerhin 24 034 Studierende ..._


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## Demiurg

Ich fand Bernds Hinweis auf den Artikel im Guardian schon wichtig für das Verständnis.



> Some 24,034 students have registered to take part in the march, and many have purchased seats on coaches booked to ferry students to central London.



In diesem speziellen Fall kann vielleicht ein Adjektiv wie "erstaunlich" wählen:

_Erstaunliche 24,034 Studenten haben sich registriert, um ..._

Nachtrag:
Das von Gernot vorgeschlagene "immerhin" passt besser.


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## dec-sev

"Immerhin" verstehe ich wie "nevertheless" oder "still":
It's raining in London now. Still 24 ... people are expected to take to the streets...


Demiurg said:


> _Erstaunliche 24,034 Studenten haben sich registriert, um ..._


 Erstaunlich ist eine Person, die jemanden erstaunt. In diesem Fall, ist es die Nummer den Studenten, das erstaunlich ist, nicht die Studenten selben. Könnte deine Forumulierung wie "die erstaunliche Studenten, dennen Nummer 24,034 ist, haben sich für die Demonstration regestriert" verstanden werden?


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## berndf

dec-sev said:


> "Immerhin" verstehe ich wie "nevertheless" oder "still":
> It's raining in London now. Still 24 ... people are expected to take to the streets...


Das passt schon. "Immerhin" kann auch bedeuten, dass man eine Menge oder Anzahl oder allgmein eine Aussage für bemerkenswert hält.

Beispieldialog:
"Naja, X ist ja eigentlich kein besonders guter Rennfahrer."
"Das würde ich nicht sagen, immerhin hat er in dieser Saison schon zwei Rennen gewonnen."



dec-sev said:


> Erstaunlich ist eine Person, die jemanden erstaunt. In diesem Fall, ist es die Nummer den Studenten, das erstaunlich ist, nicht die Studenten selben. Könnte deine Forumulierung wie "die erstaunliche Studenten, dennen Nummer 24,034 ist, haben sich für die Demonstration regestriert" verstanden werden?


_Erstaunliche 24.034 Studenten _kannst Du hier als Kurzform für _Eine erstaunliche Anzahl von 24.034 Studenten ... _verstehen.


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## sokol

Ich schlage vor* "ganze* 24.034 Studenten ..." - das würde mir persönlich besser gefallen.


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## berndf

Das ist aber zweideutig. Das kann auch heißen, das *nur *20.034 Studenten teilnehmen.


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## Demiurg

"Ganze" finde ich eher abwertend.

_Wir haben 100 eingeladen und ganze 10 sind gekommen._


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## sokol

berndf said:


> Das ist aber zweideutig. Das kann auch heißen, das *nur *20.034 Studenten teilnehmen.





Demiurg said:


> "Ganze" finde ich eher abwertend.
> 
> _Wir haben 100 eingeladen und ganze 10 sind gekommen._



Ich bin überrascht, muss ich gestehen, akzeptiere aber natürlich die Kritik voll und ganz. 
Ich würde das weder zweideutig empfinden noch abwertend (allein durch die grosse Zahl sollte sich kein Missverständnis ergeben), aber da die Übersetzung ja möglichst universal verständlich sein soll, empfiehlt sich daher "ganze" in diesem Kontext offensichtlich also nicht.


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## berndf

In Deutschland zumindest hängt die Interpretation auf recht subtile Art und Weise von Betonung und Kontext ab, ist also nur für weit fortgeschrittene Nicht-Muttersprachler zu empfehlen.


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## Frank78

"Immerhin" kann doch ebenso eine negative Konnotation haben, auch wenn diese nicht betonungsabhängig ist. Nach dem Motto: "Immerhin 20000, aber es könnten mehr Leute demonstrieren."


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## ABBA Stanza

dec-sev said:


> I've always thought that "some" in such cases means "about" or "approximately". Right?


I agree. Therefore, I would simply translate _"Some 24,034 students ..."_ as _"Rund 24.034 Studenten ..."_, which of course makes just as little sense in German as it does in English. 

I suspect that this ironical usage of "some" in conjunction with such a precise number (5 significant digits!) was just intended to serve as an eye-catcher.

Cheers,
Abba


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## berndf

Abba, this use as I described in post #5 apprears in Websters.


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## ABBA Stanza

berndf said:


> Abba, this use as I described in post #5 apprears in Websters.


Thanks for the link, Bernd . I had not seen or read that before.

However, I'm not sure I agree completely with their interpretation of their example (_"an expert parachutist, he has some 115 jumps to his credit"_). To me, "some" means an indefinite quantity. Therefore, if I heard this example in a real-life situation, I would assume that, despite its precision, the accuracy of the quoted number is in some doubt (e.g., maybe he/she miscounted, and it could be one or two more or less than that, or maybe it's a reported figure and we cannot vouch for it being spot-on).

Returning to the original example, I still find it somewhat ridiculous to use "some" with such an exact number (24,034). If it had been my article, I would have rounded the figure down and written:

_"Some 24,000 students will protest in London today ..."_

Cheers,
Abba


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## SteveUK

ABBA Stanza said:


> However, I'm not sure I agree completely with their interpretation of their example (_"an expert parachutist, he has some 115 jumps to his credit"_).



I must agree with Abba. In the Websters example, "some 115 jumps" emphasizes the experience of the parachutist, supporting the claim that he is an expert. It is not necessarily an accurate number.



> Returning to the original example, I still find it somewhat ridiculous  to use "some" with such an exact number (24,034). If it had been my  article, I would have rounded the figure down and written:
> 
> _"Some 24,000 students will protest in London today ..."_


Agreed. However, the reporter was given a precise number and wanted to include it 

I think in this example, "some" was used simply as a concise way to avoid beginning the sentence with a numeral. The author could have used "Exactly 24,034..." but that sounds overly precise.


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## berndf

SteveUK said:


> I must agree with Abba. In the Websters example, "some 115 jumps" emphasizes the experience of the parachutist, supporting the claim that he is an expert. *It is not necessarily an accurate number*.


This wasn't the point of the explanation. It states that *if* _some _is used with a not rounded (this is the meaning of _precise_ here) number it doesn't mean _about_ but it expresses emphasis.


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## SteveUK

berndf said:


> Originally Posted by *SteveUK*
> I must agree with Abba. In the Websters example, "some 115  jumps" emphasizes the experience of the parachutist, supporting the  claim that he is an expert. *It is not necessarily an accurate number*.
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't the point of the explanation. It states that *if* _some _is used with a not rounded (this is the meaning of _precise_ here) number it doesn't mean _about_ but it expresses emphasis.
Click to expand...


It was not the point of the explanation, but I think it is still relevant to the discussion.

 From Websters:
 "...it is occasionally used with a more exact number in an intensive function"

 I agree with the point that (if used with an unrounded number) "some" expresses emphasis.
 However, my assertion is that if it is used in this way, a secondary effect is that the number *can only *be seen as an approximation.

 In the original example, 24,034 was included as a precise and accurate figure. It could have been written:

"At the close of registration, exactly 24,034 students had signed-up to take part in the march".

Writing "Some 20,034 students..." emphasises the number, but at the same time reduces it to an approximation - which rather defeats the purpose of including an accurate number in the first place.

The end result sounds very odd to me, and I think this is where I am agreeing with Abba


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## Sepia

ABBA Stanza said:


> I agree. Therefore, I would simply translate _"Some 24,034 students ..."_ as _"Rund 24.034 Studenten ..."_, which of course makes just as little sense in German as it does in English.
> 
> I suspect that this ironical usage of "some" in conjunction with such a precise number (5 significant digits!) was just intended to serve as an eye-catcher.
> 
> Cheers,
> Abba



I am happy to see that somebody finally realizes that this piece of information is really nonsense. (Just wondering it took so long).

"Some" in this connection is of course "etwa" "rund" oder "cirka" and whichever other word with this meaning.

It is like asking somebody how long it takes to drive a certain distance and he answers, "It takes _apporximately _4 hours, 52 minutes and 26 and a half second".


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## Gernot Back

Könnte es denn sein, dass diese *"*_*rund *24.034 Studenten_" nicht *ganz bei der Sache* waren?

Could it be that these "_(some) 24,034 demonstrating students_" were not_ *all into* the cause _they were protesting for or against (that they were not protesting *wholeheartedly*)?
In other words: could it be that this sentence was meant ironically_?
_


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## Demiurg

No. The sentence read: "Some 24,034 students _will_ protest in London today ...". So the demonstration hadn't even started.

But besides that, they tried hard.


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## Gernot Back

Demiurg said:


> (...) the demonstration hadn't even started.
> 
> But besides that, they tried hard.


But still and even *all the more*: Thinking of the demonstration rituals in Berlin Kreuzberg on the first of May every year one might assume that a large fraction of the _protesters_ go there for the sake of the riots only, just like football hooligans don't really attend a game for their interest in soccer.

The expression some "_24,034 students_" might also make a mockery of the fact that reported numbers of participants usually vary to a great extent when you ask *both *the organizers of a protest *and *the police.


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## cyanista

Demiurg said:


> In diesem speziellen Fall kann vielleicht ein Adjektiv wie "erstaunlich" wählen:
> 
> _Erstaunliche 24,034 Studenten haben sich registriert, um ..._


Vielleicht _schlappe 24.034 Studenten? _Es klingt zwar umgangssprachlich, ist aber zumindest in Internet-Zeitschriften wie Spiegel Online durchaus anzutreffen. Allerdings weiß ich nicht, ob die genaue Zahl dazu gut passt. Was meint ihr?


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## dec-sev

ABBA Stanza said:


> However, I'm not sure I agree completely with their interpretation of their example (_"an expert parachutist, he has some 115 jumps to his credit"_). To me, "some" means an indefinite quantity. Therefore, if I heard this example in a real-life situation, I would assume that, despite its precision, the accuracy of the quoted number is in some doubt (e.g., maybe he/she miscounted, and it could be one or two more or less than that, or maybe it's a reported figure and we cannot vouch for it being spot-on).


Konjunktiv English-style  
You say it's how you would  understand it if you heard the phrase in the real live. But would you yourself use "some" to express the idea of your being uncertain about an exact number of something?  
_Er ist ein erfahrener Fallschirmspringer, er soll 115 Sprügne in seinem Aktiv haben. _
Entschpricht die Übersetzung deiner Interpretation des originales Satzes?


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## Gernot Back

cyanista said:


> Vielleicht _schlappe 24.034 Studenten? _
> (...)
> Allerdings weiß ich nicht, ob die genaue Zahl dazu gut passt. Was meint ihr?


Das wäre in jedem Fall ironisch gemeint, dabei auch noch ein schönes Wortspiel, insbesondere, wenn man die im Voraus befürchteten und dann ja auch eingetretenen Krawalle berücksichtigt. Ich sehe da dann auch keinen Widerspruch zu der exakten Zahl, möglicherweise rührt die ja tatsächlich daher, dass genau diese Anzahl auf Facebook ihr Erscheinen zu dieser Veranstaltung vorangekündigt hatte.

Ähnliche Vorankündigungen und Sympathiebekundungen hat es im Übrigen auch gerade in Deutschland im Zusammenhang mit den Sabotageaktionen zu Castor-Transporten (Atommüll-Transportan) gegeben.


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