# commissionare



## glottide

Ciao a tutti, 

sto cercando il corrispettivo inglese di commissionare  nella frase: "Alcune immagini dal progetto dell' installazione video  commissionataci  per l'ingresso del Padiglione Italiano..." ,

nel caso sarebbe corretto:

  "Some images from the video installation project commissioned to us for  the hall of the Italian Pavilion"?

Grazie


----------



## elfa

glottide said:


> "Some images from the video installation project which we commissioned for  the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion"



Ciao glottide e benvenut

ti suggerisco alcuni piccoli cambiamenti. 

NB aiuta sempre se scrivi la frase intera


----------



## Tegs

Benvenuto/a!  

Commissioned _by _us, se siete voi a commissionare il progetto


----------



## Anja.Ann

Ciao, Glottide ... _welcome_ anche da parte mia  e ciao, Elfa  e ciao-ciao, Tegs! 

Elfa, "commissionataci" (_a noi commissionata_): "the project we were commissioned"?


----------



## Lorena1970

elfa said:


> ti suggerisco alcuni piccoli cambiamenti.
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *glottide*
> 
> "Some images from the video installation project which   we commissioned for  the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion"?
Click to expand...




Elfa, I am not so sure that the meaning of the sentence you suggest is the same of the Italian sentence submitted in the OP...
What I suggest is below:



glottide said:


> "Alcune immagini dal progetto dell' installazione video  commissionataci  per l'ingresso del Padiglione Italiano..." ,
> 
> "Some images of the video installation project for  the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion we were commissioned (by.......)  "


----------



## elfa

@ Lorena and Anja, thanks!  Veramente anch'io non ero sicura chi avrebbe commissionato che cosa e per chi 

Allora suggerisco 
_Some images of the video installation project commissioned on our behalf for the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion._


----------



## Tegs

Una soluzione: 

Some images from the video installation project, *created by us for * the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion. *This work was commissioned by X* (qui metti il nome di quelli che hanno commissionato il lavoro).

Ed: Elfa, commissioned on our behalf just means that a third party commissioned it. It is still a work commissioned by you, not a work created by you


----------



## elfa

Tegs said:


> Una soluzione:
> 
> Some images from the video installation project, *created by us for * the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion. *This work was commissioned by X* (qui metti il nome di quelli che hanno commissionato il lavoro).
> 
> Ed: Elfa, commissioned on our behalf just means that a third party commissioned it. It is still a work commissioned by you, not a work created by you



Oh dear, I'm thoroughly confused now!  I advise everyone to ignore my posts...


----------



## Anja.Ann

No worries, Elfa! 

Glottide, can you post the complete sentence in Italian, please?


----------



## elfa

Anja.Ann said:


> No worries, Elfa!
> 
> Glottide, can you post the complete sentence in Italian, please?



In effetti, come ha accennato Tegs, risulta difficile in inglese quel "ci" senza sapere chi ha pagato la commissione. Vediamo se aiuta la frase intera. Glottide, ti aspettiamo!


----------



## Lorena1970

Scusate, ma in gergo arte/architettura, "commissionata*ci*" significa "commissionata *a noi*", ovvero che il gruppo è stato oggetto di commissione/incarico professionale da parte di qualcuno che ha anche paganto per il lavoro stesso.
A me la frase originale è chiarissima. Qui alcuni esempi del significato _to commission_.


----------



## elfa

Lorena1970 said:


> Scusate, ma in gergo arte/architettura, "commissionata*ci*" significa "commissionata *a noi*", ovvero che il gruppo è stato oggetto di commissione/incarico professionale da parte di qualcuno che ha anche paganto per il lavoro stesso.
> A me la frase originale è chiarissima. Qui alcuni esempi del significato _to commission_.



Ciao Lo,

penso di averti capita. Però l'esempio di Tegs (post n 7) e il tuo sono usi diversi della stessa parola in inglese. 

_We were commissioned (by X) to build this project.
This project was commissioned by X and built by us. _

Queste due frasi hanno lo stesso significato, solo l'enfasi in inglese cambia. Un'altro modo di renderla sarebbe

_X commissioned us to build this project_.

In tutti e tre casi, sono sempre "noi" che costruiscono e X che paga la commissione.


----------



## glottide

credo che  ""Some images of the video installation project for  the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion we were commissioned" sia perfetta. 
si tratta di una didascalia, non vi èè contesto ulteriore intorno se non le foto stesse cui la didascalia fa riferimento.
alla prossima
grazie  a tutti/e!


----------



## Tegs

Mi spiace, ma la tua frase inglese non va bene. Sarebbe più facile da tradurre se potessi darci il nome di quelli che hanno commissionato le foto, così potresti usare la frase del post #7.


----------



## Lorena1970

Tegs said:


> Mi spiace, ma la tua frase inglese non va bene. Sarebbe più facile da tradurre se potessi darci il nome di quelli che hanno commissionato le foto, così potresti usare la frase del post #7.



Forse se aggiunge "to do" oppure "to create" alla fine la frase ha più senso...?
"Some images of the video installation project for   the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion we were commissioned *to create*"


----------



## Tegs

Lorena1970 said:


> Forse se aggiunge "to do" oppure "to create" alla fine la frase ha più senso...?
> "Some images *from* the video installation project for   the entrance hall of the Italian Pavilion, *which* we were commissioned *to create*"



Sì, così è già meglio  (Solo qualche cosa da cambiare però)


----------



## Lorena1970

Tegs, perché "from" e non "of"...


----------



## Tegs

Ciao Lorena! It seems like a small difference, but there is a difference in meaning  

In the original Italian, it said "Alcune immagini dal progetto". These are images which are _taken from_ the project. That is, given that the project is a video, these images are stills (still photographs) taken from the video. 

If you say images_ of_ the project in English, that would be "alcune immagini _del_ progetto", and it wouldn't mean images taken from the video itself, but rather photographs of the project (for example, photographs of how the project was created, or the people who funded it etc).


----------



## Lorena1970

Tegs said:


> Ciao Lorena! It seems like a small difference, but there is a difference in meaning
> 
> In the original Italian, it said "Alcune immagini dal progetto". These are images which are _taken from_ the project. That is, given that the project is a video, these images are stills (still photographs) taken from the video.
> 
> If you say images_ of_ the project in English, that would be "alcune immagini _del_ progetto", and it wouldn't mean images taken from the video itself, but rather photographs of the project (for example, photographs of how the project was created, or the people who funded it etc).



That's exactly what I thought you wanted to mean! And I think that the pictures we are talking of are not stills taken FROM the video, but pictures OF the video installation (which means pictures of the whole project and not only of the video contents), i.e. pictures of the space containing the video installation, hence my preference for OF. 

"alcune immagini del progetto dell'installazione video...." = alcune immagini del design dell'installazione video = alcune immagini dell'ambientazione dell'installazione video


----------



## Tegs

Lorena1970 said:


> That's exactly what I thought you wanted to mean! And I think that the pictures we are talking of are not stills taken FROM the video, but pictures OF the video installation (which means pictures of the whole project and not only of the video contents), i.e. pictures of the space containing the video installation, hence my preference for OF.
> 
> "alcune immagini del progetto dell'installazione video...." = alcune immagini del design dell'installazione video = alcune immagini dell'ambientazione dell'installazione video



Ok, if that's the case, then "of" would be better, but it begs the question: why is "dal" used in Italian?  Does "dal" not imply stills from the video then?


----------



## Lorena1970

Tegs said:


> Does "dal" not imply stills from the video then?



I don't think so. It says "immagini DEL PROGETTO" which means, as said above, pictures of the whole installation. A video installation is generally a room furnished with video devices (they can be monitors or full-wall screens, it depends) which show images/films, so the "progetto" concerns the whole room and its arrangement and not the videos themselves. I hope it is much clear now.


----------



## Tegs

I get what you're saying about what the video installation is, in itself  I'm just not sure what the images are - stills from the video, or pictures of the installation as a whole...  It's still no clearer - the first post says "dal progetto", not "del progetto", hence my continued confusion.



glottide said:


> "Alcune immagini dal progetto dell' installazione video  commissionataci   per l'ingresso del Padiglione Italiano..."


----------



## Lorena1970

Oooops! I hadn't noticed it. I assume that the OP is simply not well written in Italian. My opinion of course. Architects and artists are not the best ones when it comes to writings...unless they are also journalists!


----------



## Paulfromitaly

La frase originale è poco chiara (di sarebbe più logico di DA) ma il fatto che la traduzione iniziale proposta fosse FROM e non OF significa che non è un errore di battitura.
Aspettiamo che chi ha fatto la domanda ci spieghi e ci scriva una frase INTERA e comprensibile.


----------



## USAinSicily

Hi Everyone,

I was just wondering if it was correct to use "work commissioned" for a contract.  Here's an example:

Controllare il corretto e tempestivo svolgimento, da parte dell’Appaltatore, di tutte le attività necessarie per l’esecuzione di quanto *commissionatogli*.

So would it be correct, in this context (contracts) to say, _for the work that it was *commissioned *to do_?  
I'm asking this question because I've read hundreds of construction contracts but I just don't see the verb "commission" used.  

Does anyone have an idea about what other verb I could use?

Thanks


----------



## elfa

Hi USAinSicily 

How are you translating the whole sentence? I don't really understand what the "it" refers to here.


----------



## USAinSicily

Hi elfa!

Sorry, you are so right!  I'm just so immersed in this translation that I didn't realize that what I wrote is not easily understood!

Here's another, easier sentence which I hope gets my point across: 
Context:  Construction Contract

L'Appaltatore ha diritto al pagamento dei compensi relativi a quanto _commissionato_.

The Contractor has the right to receive payments relative to ........... and this is where I'm stumped.  Can I say "relative to the work commissioned"?  Would this be correct in legalese?  

I've been using "work completed" or "work performed/carried out" if we aren't speaking about completed work.  However, I'd really like to know if I can use commissioned in this context.


----------



## elfa

USAinSicily said:


> Can I say "relative to the work commissioned"?  Would this be correct in legalese?
> 
> I've been using "work completed" or "work performed/carried out" if we aren't speaking about completed work.  However, I'd really like to know if I can use commissioned in this context.



I'm no expert, but I wouldn't use "commissioned" here as, to me, the word is most commonly used when talking about a work of art or piece of music. I think "work completed" or "work carried out" ("performed" doesn't work for me) would be my choice.


----------



## USAinSicily

That's exactly what I thought. However, I can assure you that "performed" is used very often in contracts. It didn't work for me either before this translation!


----------



## london calling

Evening Elfa, USA.

_Commissionato_ means 'ordered/contracted ' in this context: _commissionare un lavoro a qualcuno_ means to order someone to do a job (i.e. issue/make out an order/contract). 

_Controllare il corretto e tempestivo svolgimento, da parte dell’Appaltatore, di tutte le attività necessarie per l’esecuzione di quanto *commissionatogli* _means that the subcontractor has to perform (correctly and to schedule) all the tasks/activities necessary for him to be able to carry out/complete whatever it is it says must be done in the order/contract.


----------

