# Russian/Ukrainian: Differences



## Mirko_87

What are the main differences between both?
I've seen that ukrainian language has a lot of different words....

Ukrainian is more similiar to Polish or Russian?


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## eli-milqo

Hello my friend!

for Grammar...Ukrainian is more similar to Russian .
but talking about vocabulary...most likely you can use two words for the same meaning one of them is more like Russian and the other like Polish for example :

in Ukrainian to say "tray" you can say "pidnos" like the Russian "podnos" and you can say "tacja" like the polish "taca" and there are too many cases like this one.

and some times it has vocabulary that don't exist in current russian or polish,  or they exist but they have different or similar meanings but not the same meaning as in Ukrainian.
I hope I answered.


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## übermönch

Much of it's grammatical and basic vocabulary (like question words) is closer to Polish, the grammar itself and it's orthograhy is, with little exceptions corresponding to Russian, though it has quiet some own innovations. The practical vocabulary differs depending on the place. In west of the dniepr river they rather use voc. of Western Slavic languages, in the East similar to Eastern ones, in the South you might even encounter Romanian, Turkish and Hungarian words; but everywhere it's a mix of all those with quite some own ones. The official language is the variant spoken in Kiev, in the very centre of Ukraine; There are some neologisms in it to avoid Pol. or Rus. voc.
Knowing Russian and very basic Ukrainian, I can understand it as long as it doesn't concern some complicated topic; Speakers usually modify their language depending on wether you're Polish or Russian to be better understood. What else? yeah, Belorusian is very similar to Ukrainian in many regards 

EDIT:
Yes, the differences to Russian - first of all, Ukraian azbuka is somewhat different:
Uk-Ru
i-и
ї-йи
и-ы (the Ukrainian sound is not really the same; it's something between R. и and ы)
йо-ё
е-э
є-е
ґ-г
г doesn't exist in Russian, something similar to the English h.

Then, Ukrainian, unlike Russian, may have soft  soft sibilant constants:
чь, ць, шь etc.

The hard л in Russian is sometimes replaced with a в in corresponding cases in Ukrainian:
-ов Ukr.
-ол Rus.
is the suffix in past tense with masculinum subjects. In that regard Ukrainian is between Ru. and Pl.- In polish there is no hard ł any longer, it's allways read as w; лампа (lampa) in Ukrainian and Russian is łampa (wampa) in Polish.

The Russian hard р sometimes corresponds to Ukrainian hard л.
рыцарь - Rus.
лицарь - Ukr.
both meaning knight

The speech intonation is much stronger in Ukrainian. It's comparable with the situation in Am. and Br. English, where Ukrainian is the latter. 

...to be continued


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## GyörgyMS

A question to all with a very good competence in Russian and Polish:

What about your passive competence (listening and reading comprehension) in Ukrainian and Belarusian? Would it make sense for you to learn these languages or would be a waste of time since you already understand almost everything?


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## Thomas1

GyörgyMS said:


> A question to all with a very good competence in Russian and Polish:
> 
> What about your passive competence (listening and reading comprehension) in Ukrainian and Belarusian? Would it make sense for you to learn these languages or would be a waste of time since you already understand almost everything?


I have never had much contact with Belarussian nor Ukrainian; my contact with them is rather limited and the one I have is only in the written form (not specialistic texts). What I noted is that the two languages are more understandable to me than Russian (although, I've learnt it). The vocabulary is more "Polish-friendly" and I can make out the whole meaning quicklier than in the case of the same text written in Russian. This, however, doesn't mean that there're no words that I don't understand because there are many of them. I didn't pay much attention to grammar since it is similar enough to my mother tongue's that I can do without delving into nuances and simply nothing has drawn my attention so far.

As an answer to your question about the sense of learning either of them I can honestly say that I wouldn't cross out learning a language, at the very start, just beceause it is close enough to my mother tongue that I can understand it--the thing is not about this when it comes to learning a language---at least in my case. Moreover, I am also of opinion that if I learn something new it's never a waste of time.

Tom


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## GyörgyMS

@Thomas1
Thanks for your reply.

May be my formulation was a bit misleading. Learning languages of course never is a waste of time. What I meant was if it makes sense to learn Ukrainian or Belarussian to develop a passive competence knowing Polish and Russian. Is there so much new (grammar, vocabulary) in Ukrainian and Belarussian that makes it necessary for someone with a very high competence (i.e. almost native speaker) to learn the two other languages?


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## Mirko_87

Thanks to All Answers 



Greetings from Chile


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## Anatoli

übermönch said:


> Much of it's grammatical and basic vocabulary (like question words) is closer to Polish, the grammar itself and it's orthograhy is, with little exceptions corresponding to Russian, though it has quiet some own innovations. The practical vocabulary differs depending on the place. In west of the dniepr river they rather use voc. of Western Slavic languages, in the East similar to Eastern ones, in the South you might even encounter Romanian, Turkish and Hungarian words; but everywhere it's a mix of all those with quite some own ones. The official language is the variant spoken in Kiev, in the very centre of Ukraine; There are some neologisms in it to avoid Pol. or Rus. voc.
> Knowing Russian and very basic Ukrainian, I can understand it as long as it doesn't concern some complicated topic; Speakers usually modify their language depending on wether you're Polish or Russian to be better understood. What else? yeah, Belorusian is very similar to Ukrainian in many regards
> 
> EDIT:
> Yes, the differences to Russian - first of all, Ukraian azbuka is somewhat different:
> Uk-Ru
> i-и
> ї-йи
> и-ы (the Ukrainian sound is not really the same; it's something between R. и and ы)
> йо-ё
> е-э
> є-е
> ґ-г
> г doesn't exist in Russian, something similar to the English h.
> 
> Then, Ukrainian, unlike Russian, may have soft  soft sibilant constants:
> чь, ць, шь etc.
> 
> The hard л in Russian is sometimes replaced with a в in corresponding cases in Ukrainian:
> -ов Ukr.
> -ол Rus.
> is the suffix in past tense with masculinum subjects. In that regard Ukrainian is between Ru. and Pl.- In polish there is no hard ł any longer, it's allways read as w; лампа (lampa) in Ukrainian and Russian is łampa (wampa) in Polish.
> 
> The Russian hard р sometimes corresponds to Ukrainian hard л.
> рыцарь - Rus.
> лицарь - Ukr.
> both meaning knight
> 
> The speech intonation is much stronger in Ukrainian. It's comparable with the situation in Am. and Br. English, where Ukrainian is the latter.
> 
> ...to be continued


Hi übermönch, your post shows that you have good observation and you were exposed to both languages but sorry, it also shows that you are just learning both. The matching pairs you provided show how letters are transliterated differently in both languages but unfortunately the words that contain these sounds are most commonly pronounced differently in both languages, for example

i-и
You are correct in saying that Ukrainian "i" is pronounced as Russian "и" but a very large number of Slavic words that have "и" in Russian will have "и" in Ukrainian, that is they will be spelled the same way but pronounced differently: 
гриб, скрип, три, etc. Using Russian pronunciation guide the become: [_h_ры*б*] [скрып], [тры]

The same is often true about letter "е" - same spelling but different pronunciation for words similar in Russian and Ukrainian:
небо, земля, etc. Using Russian pronunciation guide they become:[нэбо] [зэмля]

You probably need to provide the alternative pronunciation guide to explain your point.



> Then, Ukrainian, unlike Russian, may have soft  soft sibilant constants:
> чь, ць, шь etc.


Incorrect about Ч. It is always soft in Russian, the Ukrainian one is always hard.



> и-ы (the Ukrainian sound is not really the same; it's something between R. и and ы)


Not sure what you mean. The Ukrainian sound is very similar to the Russian.



> The Russian hard р sometimes corresponds to Ukrainian hard л.
> рыцарь - Rus.
> лицарь - Ukr.


It's probably the only case (maybe one more) where it's true.



> г doesn't exist in Russian, something similar to the English h.


Letter "г" in Russian represents the hard "g" sound as in "give". The same letter serves what you are saying about Ukrainian.


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## Etcetera

In my opinion, Ukrainian is closer to Polish. 
As a native speaker of Russian, I've always been able to understand Ukrainian to an extent, but after I began to learn Polish, I discovered that my comprehension of Ukrainian has increased.


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## Anatoli

In my opinion Ukrainian is somewhat like a bridge between Russian and Ukrainian as it has a large vocabulary similar to either Polish or Russian. Pronunciation of Polish/Ukrainian/Russian is quite distinct from each other, so it's hard to say which one is closer to which, so is the grammar, however Polish has more features that make it quite different from any Eastern Slavic language.

K*im/Kto* *jesteś*?  (Polish) (?)
Ти хто?  (Ukrainian)
Ты кто? (Russian)

*Jestem* student*em*.  (Polish)
Я студент.  (Ukrainian)
Я студент. (Russian)

Chciał*bym* coś zjeść.  (Polish)
Я хотiв бы (хотiлось би) щось з'їсти.  (Ukrainian)
Я хотел бы (хотелось бы) что-нибудь съесть. (Russian)

Kiedy będzie gotowe?  (Polish)
Коли буде готово?  (Ukrainian)
Когда будет готово? (Russian)

Prosze mi przynieść butelkę białego wina.  (Polish)
Прошу (будь ласка принесить) принести менi пляшку бiлого вина.  (Ukrainian)
Прошу (пожалуйста) принести мне бутылку белого вина.  (Russian)

Polish and Russian have more palatalised consonants in common, although Polish palatalisation is different from Russian: siła - сила (cf Ukrainian hard "сила"), although Ukrainian has a lot of palatalisation as well.

Polish G matches in pronunciation to Russian hard Г. Ukrainian has 
Г (H) instead.

Polish nasal sounds, sibilants ź, ś, dź, ć and letter combination RZ make it sound quite distinct from any Slavic language.
dźień  (Polish)
день  (Ukrainian) [d]
день (Russian) [d']

rzeka  (Polish) [zh]
река  (Ukrainian) [r]
река (Russian) [r']

Devoicing consonants in Polish is very similar to Russian but very different from Ukrainian:

ząb [zom*p*]  (Polish)
зуб [zu*b*]  (Ukrainian)
зуб [zu*p*] (Russian)

But Polish goes even further in devoicing consonants than other languages:
twój [t*f*uj] (Polish)
твiй [t*v*ij] (Ukrainian)
твой [t*v*oj] (Russian)

I like analysing languages on concrete examples, my point is there are a lot of similarities and differences.


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## übermönch

Anatoli said:


> Hi übermönch, your post shows that you have good observation and you were exposed to both languages but sorry, it also shows that you are just learning both. The matching pairs you provided show how letters are transliterated differently in both languages but unfortunately the words that contain these sounds are most commonly pronounced differently in both languages, for example
> 
> i-и
> You are correct in saying that Ukrainian "i" is pronounced as Russian "и" but a very large number of Slavic words that have "и" in Russian will have "и" in Ukrainian, that is they will be spelled the same way but pronounced differently:
> гриб, скрип, три, etc. Using Russian pronunciation guide the become: [_h_ры*б*] [скрып], [тры]
> 
> The same is often true about letter "е" - same spelling but different pronunciation for words similar in Russian and Ukrainian:
> небо, земля, etc. Using Russian pronunciation guide they become:[нэбо] [зэмля]


Well, I've been comparing Ukrainian to Russian and, as good as I could, tried to explain the different letter values. 
f.e. If I'd compare Dutch to English I'd point out that
the Dutch *G *= Scottish English *CH*
The other German languages and the fact that it evolved from a normal G don't play a role here.
The dutch word for the colour green is [*x*ɹɶn], written *g*roen, but the way people read it in other Ger. languages doesn't change anything about the value of the Dutch letter G. 



> Incorrect about Ч. It is always soft in Russian, the Ukrainian one is always hard.


my bad  Though isn't it that the rule that no softness sign can follow a sibilant constants doesn't work for Ukrainian? Or is it simply limited to ч?


> Not sure what you mean. The Ukrainian sound is very similar to the Russian.


It is. But it is not the same. The phonetic value of Рус. ы is [ɨ], while Укр. и corresponds to [ɪ] which is something between _ and [ɨ].



			It's probably the only case (maybe one more) where it's true.
		
Click to expand...

But it's so odd. There must be others.



			Letter "г" in Russian represents the hard "g" sound as in "give". The same letter serves what you are saying about Ukrainian.
		
Click to expand...

There's a whole thread on this very topic somewhere in the dephts of the Slavic forum  Ukrainian has another letter for the "hard" g,"ґ"; Ukr. "г" on the other hand corresponds to "h"._


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## TheGermanRussian

Привет!

Извините! Я плохо говорю               по-русски.. _so_ I'll just type this in English?

Very quick question: Is there a very significant difference between Russian and Ukrainian languages? 

My boyfriend's mother is coming to visit in the next couple weeks and I was trying to brush up on some Russian (half Russian, yet I don't speak it.. pitiful?) _so_ I could talk to her a bit in her own language.. and that's when I remembered she speaks Ukrainian ..

Большое               спасибо!


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## papillon

Hi TGR, 
in the grand scheme of things, the two languages are fairly close - both belonging, together with Belarusian, to the Eastern branch of Slavic languages. On the other hand, they differ enough to make mutual oral intelligibility quite difficult (in some cases < 60% !) for someone who hadn't been previously exposed to the other language.

Still, I think your Russian will serve you well.  For obvious reasons, most older generation Ukrainians are bilingual, or at least able to understand Russian quite well. 

Good luck!


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## TheGermanRussian

Thanks Papillon! I guess now I just have to worry if she'll like me or not ? Too bad cultural etiquette can't be so easily translated as phrases.

~Thanks again for your time!


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## Etcetera

papillon said:


> Still, I think your Russian will serve you well.  For obvious reasons, most older generation Ukrainians are bilingual, or at least able to understand Russian quite well.


As well as many young people. 
My Ukrainian friends all speak excellent Russian and even prefer it to Ukrainian.


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## Crescent

Etcetera said:


> As well as many young people.
> My Ukrainian friends all speak excellent Russian and even prefer it to Ukrainian.



I have to say that I believe it really depends on the area or the town in Ukraine, as to whether or not young people or the older generation can speak Russian. For example, in my home town - Харьков - it is almost the official language and everyone - from ordinary people in the street, to продовцы в киоски, even the cats and dogs!  - speaks it perfectly, and in fact some of them even struggle at times to remember certain words or phrases in Ukrainian! 
However, in small villages and towns, it is quite possible that the population converses mostly in Ukrainian, knowing little Russian, as is the case with my maternal grandparents. 

TheGermanRussian - I'm sure your boyfriend's grandma will know what you're saying, as Russian and Ukrainian (as Papillon and Etcetera hace already said) are not that different. But the best of luck to you, anyway!


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## Etcetera

Most of my friends live in Kiev, one lives in Kamenets-Podolsky. 
On my last visit to Ukraine (Odessa), when I expressed surprised at everyone's speaking Russian and only Russian, I was told that in Odessa the main language was Russian, but in Kiev most people spoke Ukrainian. But here are my friends, students of Kiev University (Faculty of Philology, English department), and they prefer to speak Russian.


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## Niedowiérni

Anatoli said:


> In my opinion Ukrainian is somewhat like a bridge between Russian and Ukrainian as it has a large vocabulary similar to either Polish or Russian. Pronunciation of Polish/Ukrainian/Russian is quite distinct from each other, so it's hard to say which one is closer to which, so is the grammar, however Polish has more features that make it quite different from any Eastern Slavic language.
> 
> K*im/Kto* *jesteś*?  (Polish) (?)
> Ти хто?  (Ukrainian)
> Ты кто? (Russian)
> 
> *Jestem* student*em*.  (Polish)
> Я студент.  (Ukrainian)
> Я студент. (Russian)
> 
> Chciał*bym* coś zjeść.  (Polish)
> Я хотiв бы (хотiлось би) щось з'їсти.  (Ukrainian)
> Я хотел бы (хотелось бы) что-нибудь съесть. (Russian)
> 
> Kiedy będzie gotowe?  (Polish)
> Коли буде готово?  (Ukrainian)
> Когда будет готово? (Russian)
> 
> Prosze mi przynieść butelkę białego wina.  (Polish)
> Прошу (будь ласка принесить) принести менi пляшку бiлого вина.  (Ukrainian)
> Прошу (пожалуйста) принести мне бутылку белого вина.  (Russian)
> 
> Polish and Russian have more palatalised consonants in common, although Polish palatalisation is different from Russian: siła - сила (cf Ukrainian hard "сила"), although Ukrainian has a lot of palatalisation as well.
> 
> Polish G matches in pronunciation to Russian hard Г. Ukrainian has
> Г (H) instead.
> 
> Polish nasal sounds, sibilants ź, ś, dź, ć and letter combination RZ make it sound quite distinct from any Slavic language.
> dźień  (Polish)
> день  (Ukrainian) [d]
> день (Russian) [d']
> 
> rzeka  (Polish) [zh]
> река  (Ukrainian) [r]
> река (Russian) [r']
> 
> Devoicing consonants in Polish is very similar to Russian but very different from Ukrainian:
> 
> ząb [zom*p*]  (Polish)
> зуб [zu*b*]  (Ukrainian)
> зуб [zu*p*] (Russian)
> 
> But Polish goes even further in devoicing consonants than other languages:
> twój [t*f*uj] (Polish)
> твiй [t*v*ij] (Ukrainian)
> твой [t*v*oj] (Russian)
> 
> I like analysing languages on concrete examples, my point is there are a lot of similarities and differences.



OK but: 

How are you?
*Jak się masz?*  POL
*Як ся маєш? *UKR
*Как дела?* RUS

Good night!
*Dobranoc! *POL
*Добраніч!* UKR
*Спокойной ночи!* RUS

Mum! (vocative case)
*Mamo! *POL
*Мамо!* UKR
*Мамa!* (=nomin.) RUS

And many more...  In vocabulary in WestUkrainian more simmilary to Polish, in East to Russian.


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## papillon

Etcetera said:


> Most of my friends live in Kiev, one lives in Kamenets-Podolsky.
> On my last visit to Ukraine (Odessa), when I expressed surprised at everyone's speaking Russian and only Russian, I was told that in Odessa the main language was Russian, but in Kiev most people spoke Ukrainian. But here are my friends, students of Kiev University (Faculty of Philology, English department), and they prefer to speak Russian.



Absolutely! 
Still, as you cross the wonderful river Dniepr (а ведь не всякая птица долетит до середины Днепра) and move deeper into the Western Ukraine territory - I am thinking L'viv, Ternopil', Ivano-Frankivsk you find a very different situation, where Russian is no longer preferred, though probably still understood, or even spoken, if need be.

Since the thread originator specified that the mother-in-law-to-be ( ) actually _speaks_ Ukrainian, I assumed that she might actually be from that side of of the country...

In the meantime, Kharkov, Odessa and many other places remain predominantly Russian-speaking.


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## Ptak

Niedowiérni said:


> Good night!
> *Dobranoc! *POL
> *Добраніч!* UKR
> *Спокойной ночи!* RUS or *Доброй ночи*


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## übermönch

Ptak actually has a very nice point there, proving what eli-miqlo had said at the very beginning! 

just a few more examples of alternate Rus. phrazes:


> *Jestem* student*em*.  (Polish)
> Я студент. (Russian) (180,000 google hits)
> or я являюсь студент*ом *(30,000 hits)





> Mum! (vocative case)
> *Mamo! *POL
> *Мамa!* (=nomin.) RUS
> or *Мам!* (=vocative)





> Prosze mi przynieść...  (Polish)
> Прошу принести мне...  (Russian) (900 hits)
> or Прошу мне приести... (100 hits)


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## palomnik

To confirm Etcetera's comments, I've never had any trouble getting around in Ukraine using Russian, even when I was out on the farm.

Whether there might be a cultural prejudice against it these days is another question, though.


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## MarX

papillon said:


> Hi TGR,
> in the grand scheme of things, the two languages are fairly close - both belonging, together with Belarusian, to the Eastern branch of Slavic languages. On the other hand, they differ enough to make mutual oral intelligibility quite difficult (in some cases < 60% !) for someone who hadn't been previously exposed to the other language.


My Russian friends told me they had a hard time understanding Ukrainian.
They also said that there's Russian spoken with Ukrainian accent. They found it funny, but they were able to understand it.

I guess it's useful to remind oneself that Russian is a fairly uniform language, thus Russians in general are probably not used to differences, even if they were relatively slight.




Vladislav said:


> Well, basically the difference between the Russian and the Ukrainian is the same as between Spanish and Italian.
> 
> A native Spanish-speaker could understand an Italian if he speaks very slowly and using an easy vocabulary. But in principal they're not the same altough many words are similar.


 


Vladislav said:


> Russian is my native language and Spanish is 99% my native language ... and I don't notice the difference between my comprehension of Italian (related to my Spanish) and Ukrainian (related to my Russian).


 
Note that he lives in Barcelona. So he probably has a certain knowledge of Catalan, and thus finds it even easier to understand Italian.
I suppose his comment is comparable to someone who's native language is Russian with some knowledge of Belarusian, saying his opinion about Ukrainian's intelligibility.


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## Ptak

MarX said:


> They also said that there's Russian spoken with Ukrainian accent. They found it funny, but they were able to understand it.


It would be _extremely_ strange if a Russian could not understand Russian language spoken with Ukrainian accent. It would be _much more_ strange than if some AmE native could not understand a Brit.
Russian spoken with Ukrainian accent is such a widespread thing that often you even fail to realize you are listening to a speach with an _accent_.
Actually, very often Ukrainians speaking Russian sound just like Russians "from a village" or something.


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## volodymyr

I was reading this thread, and decided to contribute as I am ukrainian  

Although it seems like languages are simular in writing, it sounds different, for example, 

(eng) I am student

(rus) Я студент

and

(ukr) Я студент 

Sounds differently. Closely, but yet differently. 

There is also a difference in speed of speech. A typical ukranian speaks fast in both language, while, for example, if I hear russian spoken in Moscow - it seems quite slow for me, and I can recognize this "moscow accent" anywhere I hear it. It is not just slow, it feels like affectedness.

A typical example is like to compare French French (ukrainian - fast, dynamic) and Swiss French (russian - slow, a lot of long sounds).

Most of the Soviet Union generation people (born before 1991) speak Russian, however the younger generation don't. My niece is speaking ukranian everywhere - in kindergarden, in school, etc.


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## peppermints90

I am learning russian and speak it an intermediate level. When reading Ukrainian I can understand lots of words. Both languages share about roughly about 70% vocabulary. Take a look at this text. the words in red are similar
Russian 
Все люди рождаются свободными и равными в своем достоинстве и правах. Они наделены разумом и совестью и должны поступать в отношении друг друга в духе братства.


Ukrainian 
Всі люди народжуються вільними і рівними у своїй гідності та правах. Вони наділені розумом і совістю і повинні діяти у відношенні один до одного в дусі братерства

English 
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood


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## oveka

Vocabulary Ukrainian language by 38% different from Russian, 32% of Slovak, 30% of Polish and 16% of Belarusian

Ukrainian:
*Кобеняка наопаш, похуткував годованець манівцями тлумлячи розпуку.*

Translate a:
Russian 
English


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## UkrainianPolyglot

Ukrainian is definitely closely related to Russian, much more so than to any other language (except Belarusian) despite what some nationalists might claim. But it does have many innovations which are unique and also lots of features and words borrowed from Polish due to hundreds of years of occupation and intermingling with Poles. Ukrainian has much less palatalization than Russian and Polish, therefore making it sound closer to Bulgarian and Serbo-Croatian despite not being nearly as closely related to them as to Russian and Polish.


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## oveka

If such similar language, why the Russians in Ukraine can not chat Ukrainian.


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## UkrainianPolyglot

oveka said:


> If such similar language, why the Russians in Ukraine can not chat Ukrainian.



Because they have no need to. Russian has been the dominant and prestigious language in Ukraine for a very long time. Ukrainian has been viewed as a peasant dialect and not something worth learning.


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## oveka

32.5 millions chat in rural dialect! What is rural dialect??


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## ahvalj

oveka said:


> 32.5 millions chat in rural dialect! What is rural dialect??


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan_language
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language


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## UkrainianPolyglot

oveka said:


> 32.5 millions chat in rural dialect! What is rural dialect??



I think that's an inaccurate figure. I grew up in Ternopil Oblast and when I traveled to oblasts as close as Zhytomyr I hardly could consider their speech pure Ukrainian. And it gets more Russian the more east you go. They use lots of Russian words and also change the o to a in unstressed positions. When I was in Kiev only 1/10 of people spoke Ukrainian, and half of the time they were from Western Ukraine. In Odessa Ukrainian was completely unheard of, I remember as a kid I went there for a vacation and I had to speak Russian because no one understood Ukrainian.


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## sealofhonesty

> *Кобеняка наопаш, похуткував годованець манівцями тлумлячи розпуку.
> *


Seems you have dismissed comma before тлумлячи. 
Also this sentence doesn't make any sense for me - most of these words are rarely used both in classic literature and modern texts, so it is hard to understand them without context for the person that is not familiar with particular regional dialect of origin from her/his childhood.


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## oveka

sealofhonesty said:


> Seems you have dismissed comma before тлумлячи.
> Also this sentence doesn't make any sense for me - most of these words are rarely used both in classic literature and modern texts, so it is hard to understand them without context for the person that is not familiar with particular regional dialect of origin from her/his childhood.


*No comma before* тлумлячи.
_Марія, ледь стримуючи радість, йшла собі стежкою.
_


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## angea

Ptak said:


> It would be _extremely_ strange if a Russian could not understand Russian language spoken with Ukrainian accent. It would be _much more_ strange than if some AmE native could not understand a Brit.
> Russian spoken with Ukrainian accent is such a widespread thing that often you even fail to realize you are listening to a speach with an _accent_.
> Actually, very often Ukrainians speaking Russian sound just like Russians "from a village" or something.


 I never knew racist posts were allowed.


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## ahvalj

angea said:


> I never knew racist posts were allowed.


The Ukrainian accent *is* perceived this way by the Russians.


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## angea

No one mentions, for some strange reason, the fact that Ukrainian language is phonetic, meanwhile Russian is morphemic. In Ukrainian language, all words are pronounced exactly as they are written, in Russian, when you speak, you substitute "a" for a written "o", devitalisation of the last consonant of the word, d-t, g-k and so on, while in Ukrainian language consonants stayed voiced. Also, I have never met a Russian who could understand Ukrainian language.


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## ahvalj

angea said:


> No one mentions, for some strange reason, the fact that Ukrainian language is phonetic, meanwhile Russian is morphemic. In Ukrainian language, all words are pronounced exactly as they are written, in Russian, when you speak, you substitute "a" for a written "o", devitalisation of the last consonant of the word, d-t, g-k and so on, while in Ukrainian language consonants stayed voiced. Also, I have never met a Russian who could understand Ukrainian language.


In linguistics, there is no such thing as "phonetic language". One may speak of phonetic orthography, however.


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## ahvalj

I should probably add that this isn't an attitude specific to Ukrainian: Russians from the northern and central areas perceive this way any East Slavic varieties possessing the sounds _h/ǥ_ and sing-song intonations, be it Ukrainian, Belarusian or, actually, southern Russian. Very many people won't even be able to tell the difference between these accents.


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## ahvalj

To explain this, we can look at the map from 1915 of East Slavic dialects in Europe: http://i066.radikal.ru/1207/50/a7e16492a1df.jpg

The greatest part of the linguistic area that was then called "Great Russian" and now is called "Russian" or "Russian proper" was occupied either by North Russian dialects (brown) or by a narrow strip of Middle Russian (hatched brown). The entire self-identification of Russians is associated with those lands: the concept of the "Russian North", while being an obvious middle 19th century calque of the German concept of the "Germanic North", has nevertheless fallen on fertile soil — there is a lot of sentiments in Russia to those areas and an associated sense of genuineness, whereas the lands occupied by the Southern dialects (red), while the richest, never gained any attention in the nation's consciousness, except maybe Cossack lands in the extreme south, but those were regarded as a separate sub-ethnic group with obvious Ukrainian connections anyway. 

Even the comic effect associated with the southern (_h_-sounding) and the northern (o-sounding) accents is totally different: the perception of the _h_-accent is outlined above, whereas the _o_-accent (while endlessly more rare nowadays) is regarded as something domestic and cozy (_Однажды осенью, обходя окрестности Онежского озера, отец Онуфрий обнаружил отроковицу Ольгу…_). As an illustration of this domestic effect, one can compare the overall style of the popular modern Internet cartoonist Vasya Lozhkin (https://www.google.ru/search?q=вася...a=X&ei=8-a0VL25B4L_ygPtwoGQCQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ) with his cartoon about the North (http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/vasya_lozhkin/12933937/44712/44712_original.jpg).


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## ahvalj

I'd like to clarify what's going on the last days. I agree that the attitude of most Russians towards the Ukrainian type of accent is quite arrogant. I agree that it may be interpreted unfavorably, though the word "racism" (as I imagine it) mostly describes other things. But we are discussing the facts of life, which nobody can change, like weather. One may like them or not, but if a forum member wants to discuss the real, and not castrated and politically correct views of real speakers, he can't avoid touching these things.

Update. Please, pay attention that neither me, nor Ptak didn't express our personal attitude: we both just stated what we feel was the long-term perception of the majority of the Russian population. The posts you disagree with are just observations, not personal "wrong" or "unacceptable" opinions of two forum members.

Update 2. Another thing is that this arrogant attitude concerns the _h_-accent in Russian, not the Ukrainian language (which many Russians find attractive in its own way), or the Ukrainians as a nation, or the millions of Ukrainians living in Russia and lacking any traces of such an accent.


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