# The use of "for" in Hungarian



## LeBro

Jó estét kívánok!

There is one thing which makes me confused all the time and it is the use of “for” in Hungarian. I know that its use in Hungarian does not have to correspond with its equivalents in other languages like, say, Turkish or English. But I really find it confusing as there are also “számára”, “részére”, “-nak/-nek” and (not quite sure about it but possibly) “-hoz/-hez-/höz” in addition to “-ért” in Hungarian. So I would just like to ask for a general guideline as to how/when these are used to express “for” in Hungarian, if there is any, of course. 

Előre is köszönöm a válaszokat.


----------



## Zsanna

Hello LeBro,

It is indeed a complex topic and I am not sure that even general guidelines could be helpful because one would have to study/analyse all these possibilities you mention (and there are some more, as you thought) individually to be able to tell the difference between them and their connection to the English *preposition* _for_.
It may be of some start if I said that reading your post, my first thought (for a Hungarian equivalent) was -_ért_. Probably because in my thinking _for_ is mainly connected to expressing 'aim', 'the final destination an action aims to arrive'.
From this perspective, _számára_ and _neki_ usually name a person as 'destination'. (E.g. Neki küldöm ezt a levelet./Számára írtam ezt a levelet. -> although in these cases it would be rather 'to' the English equivalent...: I send this letter to him./I wrote this letter for him.)
_Neki_ and _-nak/-nek_ are obviously connected. (E.g. Péternek írtam ezt a levelet. -> Same as above, just naming the person and it would be rather 'to' again in English.)
I cannot think of any example with -_hoz_/-_hez_/-_höz_ even though you could imagine the same logic behind its use: 'to that destination' (/final stop).
And -_ért_ is the easiest (to me). (E.g. A családjáért tette mindezt. -> He did all this for his family.)

I think the real problem starts when it comes to special expressions in either languages.
E.g. as for me/him, etc. -> ami engem/őt illet/i or he is tall for his age -> korához képest magas (-_hoz_ here goes together with _képest_).
It is obvious that you have to learn them separately.


----------



## LeBro

Thank you for your explanation Zsanna.

Yes, I also guessed that there wouldn't be any shortcut to follow  Therefore, it will inevitably take some time to master their usages, nem baj. 

Köszönöm szépen még egyszer a választ.


----------



## Zsanna

Szívesen. 
As you mentioned -hoz/-hez/-höz above, could you tell an example? (I still haven't found any.)
I didn't mention the possibility with compound sentences, well more exactly that of "célhatározói alárendelt" because I don't know whether it would be of any use...


----------



## LeBro

Zsanna said:


> As you mentioned -hoz/-hez/-höz above, could you tell an example? (I still haven't found any.)



To be honest, I was and am not sure if it can be used in the sense of "for". But what I had in mind was just a blur, something like "ide kell jönnie a hivatalos eljárásokhoz", which might be totally wrong 



Zsanna said:


> I didn't mention the possibility with compound sentences, well more exactly that of "célhatározói alárendelt" because I don't know whether it would be of any use...



Could you please give an example of what you meant with that so that it falls into place?


----------



## Zsanna

Sorry, I’ll be short because I can’t write to you comfortably. ☺️
Your example for -hoz(...) is good in that sentence. 👍 
Example for the second point:
Azért telefonált, hogy hívjon egy taxit. (He called for a taxi. )
N.B. This sentence can be shorter in Hungarian in every day speech. (E.g. Taxit hívott.)


----------



## LeBro

Zsanna said:


> Your example for -hoz(...) is good in that sentence. 👍



If I had to write this sentence in Hungarian by myself, "-ért" would be the first one that would come to my mind, therefore;

Ide kell jönnie a hivatalos eljárások_ért._

But it somehow sounds off to me with "-ért". Yet, the reason/rule/logic as to why we should use "-hoz/-hez/-höz" instead of "-ért" here is still over my head. 



Zsanna said:


> Azért telefonált, hogy hívjon egy taxit.



Together with the sentence I wrote, I would have used "için" (for) in their translations into Turkish. Even though there are similarities in their usages in both languages, _felszolító mód_ is more widely and differently used in Hungarian.


----------



## Zsanna

LeBro said:


> Ide kell jönnie a hivatalos eljárások_ért._


You are right (again!   ), it does sound better to me with_ -hoz_ as well. 
I am not quite sure about the reason but it seems to me that using "-ért" here would give the impression as if "eljárások" were an object (e.g. to be picked up), meanwhile _-hoz_ indicates that you go there to complete some sort of an action. (But whether it could be considered to be a general rule, I cannot tell.)

As for the sentence using "azért..., hogy" (= célhatározói alárendelés) it was _supposed_ to be an example for "for" expressing aim in a compound sentence structure, so it is not surprising if you feel that "for" would be appropriate to be used in a translation. (Or did I misunderstand something?) But it is true that in such sentences you'd use a verb in the imperative in Hungarian.


----------



## LeBro

Zsanna said:


> I am not quite sure about the reason but it seems to me that using "-ért" here would give the impression as if "eljárások" were an object (e.g. to be picked up), meanwhile _-hoz_ indicates that you go there to complete some sort of an action. (But whether it could be considered to be a general rule, I cannot tell.)



I think that your explanation is on point . The sentence with "-ért" sounds more like "kenyérért megyek le a boltba", as you also stated with your own explanation . So if it can not be qualified as a _general rule_, it is so close to it 



Zsanna said:


> ... so it is not surprising if you feel that "for" would be appropriate to be used in a translation. (Or did I misunderstand something?)



My bad, sorry, you did not misunderstand anyting. I just wanted to say that we would (most probably) use the word "için" (for) in Turkish unlikely in Hungarian in the (possible) equivalent of such a sentence, thinking that it might have shown the logic (that I have sometimes) when I need to write/say something in Hungarian.

Thank you once again for insightful comments.


----------

