# Persian/Urdu: Public Apathy



## Sheikh_14

Dear forum members,
In this thread I would like to know how would you say Public apathy in both languages. Kindly, include both scripts for pronunciation purposes. Much appreciated.

Apathy=lack of interest, enthusiasm, concern and emotion.


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## omlick

जनता का बेपरवाही might be useful in both languages.  I am not sure if that is the common term.  I cannot type in Urdu on this computer as of yet so I apologize for offering it in only one script.


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## Alfaaz

Urdu: 

Public: _3awaam(m)_ - عوام 

Apathy: 
تغافل، غفلت، تجاہل، تساہل، کاہلی، مجہولی، عدم مبالات، تقاعد، عدم توجہی - _taghaaful, ghaflat, tajaahul, tasaahul, kaahilii, majhuulii, 3dam-mubaalaat, taqaa3ud, 3adam tawajjohii
_بے حسّی، بے پروائی، بے اعتنائی، سرد مہری، سرد مزاجی، لا تعلقی، مردہ دلی - _be-Hissii, be-parwaa'ii, be-i3tinaa'ii, sard-mihrii, sard-mizaaji, laa-ta3alluqii, murdah-dilii
_
The following could probably be used (depending on context): _public apathy_: عوامی تجاہل/بے حسّی/بے پروائی/لا تعلقی - _awaamii tajaahul/be-Hissii/be-parwaa'ii/laa-ta3alluqii_


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## Sheikh_14

Be-parwaa'ii here makes great sense. On the other hand, I have troubles understanding why be-hissii is used here frequently since it is used most commonly for senselessness. Does it here instead connote insensitivity and the inability to be receptive to human emotion? Murdah-dilii is a very graphic alternative suggesting dead-heartedness. La-ta3lluqii is rather to abandon someone than to be apathetic exactly though they are somewhat related.  

What does tajaahul mean that is rather new to me as well as i3tina'ii? Besides that a bharpuur moteshakiram Alfaaz saahib ishe tarah apne naam pe utar te rahe!

That being said, its "All quite on the Persian front" unfortunately. Hope to see that change.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Sheikh_14 said:


> Be-parwaa'ii here makes great sense. On the other hand, I have troubles understanding why be-hissii is used here frequently since it is used most commonly for senselessness. Does it here instead connote insensitivity and the inability to be receptive to human emotion? Murdah-dilii is a very graphic alternative suggesting dead-heartedness. La-ta3lluqii is rather to abandon someone than to be apathetic exactly though they are somewhat related.
> 
> What does tajaahul mean that is rather new to me as well as i3tina'ii? Besides that a bharpuur moteshakiram Alfaaz saahib ishe tarah apne naam pe utar te rahe!
> 
> That being said, its "All quite on the Persian front" unfortunately. Hope to see that change.



_*beHissii*_ is not '_senselessness_'. It is rather '_insensitivity_' and it translates very well the Public Apathy query. I'd suggest : _*3avaam kii beHissii*_ rather than 3avaamii beHissii.

Another suggestion is the word _*berukhii*_ although I think _*beHiSSii*_' s better.


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## Sheikh_14

First of all I did recognise that be-hissii is the official word for apathy. What I asked instead was why, to which you have responded. However, isn't be-hissii derived from be-hiss I.e. the state of being be-hiss; if so than be-hissii's immediate definition would be senselessness which by extension can also connote irresponsiveness & insensitivity.


be-hiss, adj. Insensible, senseless: COURTESY of Platts


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## Cilquiestsuens

The root  _*H - s - s*_  from which is derived the word Hiss has given other words in Urdu such as *eHsaas*, which as you know very well means physical feeling as well as something like empathy / sympathy. 

What is interesting is that these two sides of the same meaning are already present in the Arabic root. One of the possible translations of *insensivity* in Arabic is قِلة الإحساس *qillat ul 2iHsaas* (while apathy can be translated as عَدَم اهتِمَام / فتور الشعور ).

I am curious to know what Farsi speakers have to say about it.

Platts is not wrong, but he is not God neither. Keep in mind his dictionary is more than a 100 years old. The Urdu language has moved on since then.


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## Alfaaz

Sheikh_14 said:
			
		

> On the other hand, I have troubles understanding why be-hissii is used here frequently since it is used most commonly for senselessness. Does it here instead connote insensitivity and the inability to be receptive to human emotion?


 As Cilquiestsuens SaaHib has already pointed out,_ be-Hiss_ and _be Hissii_ are usually used for _insensitive_ and _insensitivity_. Platts can sometimes be confusing, since the usage of the Urdu and English words might be different from current usage. 


			
				Sheikh_14 said:
			
		

> Murdah-dilii is a very graphic alternative suggesting dead-heartedness. La-ta3lluqii is rather to abandon someone than to be apathetic exactly though they are somewhat related.


Depending on the context surrounding the use of _public apathy _in English (apathy towards something minor or towards something major), you could probably use slightly different words to translate into Urdu. _

3adam-dilchaspii_ - عدم دلچسپی could probably be another option. 



			
				Sheikh_14 said:
			
		

> What does tajaahul mean that is rather new to me as well as i3tina'ii?


تجاہل | tajaahul , اعتنا | i3tinaa


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## Stranger_

Public apathy (towards something) is usually translated as: 

"*بی تفاوتی/بی میلی/بی توجهی* مردم *به/نسبت* *به *چیزی"

بی علاقگی can be also used in my opinion but بی حسی sounds wrong, or strange at best.


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## Sheikh_14

"*بی تفاوتی/بی میلی/بی توجهی* مردم *به/نسبت* *به *چیزی"

بی علاقگی can be also used in my opinion but بی حسی ng, or strange at best.[/QUOTE]

Stranger saahib kindly could you type the ones you deem most relevant in terms of the context in roman script as well for pronunciation purposes. That would be much appreciated. Afs far as cilq and alfaaz sahiibain's suggestions are concerned I'd like to add 3adam ihsaas or fikr as other alternatives in the mix. As far as be-hiss is concerned than I would have to differ as it really depends upon context for the word holds both connotations. Aap kitne be-hiss hogaye hai would mean you have become so indifferent.  However, when someone says yeh kyaan be-hiss baat ke hai apne! it would mean your talking utter nonsense more often than not rather than being insensitive.
Here's a rather humble link for that purpose 

http://rekhta.org/urdudictionary?keyword=हिस.

Besides that your contributions have been most helpful and I will take a look at the definitions you have forwarded my way.


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## Stranger_

> Stranger saahib kindly could you type the ones you deem most relevant in terms of the context in roman script as well for pronunciation purposes.



sure

bee-tafaavotee-ye/bee-meylee-ye/bee-tavajjohee-ye mardom be/nesbat be cheezee


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## Cilquiestsuens

@ sheikh Sb.

You can find thousands of examples of the said usage of  بےحسی (be-Hissii) in Urdu. Look at this link or this one or simply google it and find hundreds of other examples with that meaning only.

My last advice: never trust dictionaries if they don't match real life usage.


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## Sheikh_14

Cilq, that is entirely the point but they do! The examples I stated above are commonly used. Now you may argue that they are incorrect but than again you would be saying so pedantically which again the bookish side of things would ironically not support.

Just break down the two words hiss= sense, be =without. Now ofcourse one can interpret the word in Two senses a) that someone is irresponsive to surrounding stimuli I.e. insensitive hence your definition too is correct. B) to have no sense, be senseless Yeh kyaan be-hiss baat ke hai apne! Would denote someone is speaking nonesense. Nevertheless how would you differentiate the two? Personally I see it as a matter of context.

Btw since we are speaking of apathy and irresponsiveness how would we say "someone is irresponsive to surrounding stimuli". Moteshakeram Stranger, be-tawajohii would approximate to not allotting focus to a certain something in Urdu at least perhaps the very same is being touched upon here.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Sheikh_14 said:


> Cilq, that is entirely the point but they do! The examples I stated above are commonly used. Now you may argue that they are incorrect but than again you would be saying so pedantically which again the bookish side of things would ironically not support.
> 
> Just break down the two words hiss= sense, be =without. Now ofcourse one can interpret the word in Two senses a) that someone is irresponsive to surrounding stimuli I.e. insensitive hence your definition too is correct. B) to have no sense, be senseless Yeh kyaan be-hiss baat ke hai apne! Would denote someone is speaking nonesense. Nevertheless how would you differentiate the two? Personally I see it as a matter of context.
> 
> Btw since we are speaking of apathy and irresponsiveness how would we say "someone is irresponsive to surrounding stimuli". Moteshakeram Stranger, be-tawajohii would approximate to not allotting focus to a certain something in Urdu at least perhaps the very same is being touched upon here.



I think the problem here seems to be that you are thinking in English. There is no problem in Urdu whatsoever using _*beHiss*_ for "someone is irresponsive to surrounding stimuli" and at the same time *beHissii* for 'emotional or moral apathy'. It is not specifically a matter of context here. All words are always used in a context. What would you say if I'd refuse to use the word mean (= signify) in English because in other contexts it signifies something bad (as in: he's being mean to me)?  

When you translate *BeHiss* in English you have two words = insensible / insensitive with different meanings. But why would Urdu have to share the exact same semantic fields as English ?  Both meanings are covered by one word in Urdu. And what's wrong with that? French and Arabic agree with Urdu in this case.


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## Sheikh_14

From the final post it seems that you have accepted both definitions'. English had only been brought into the discussion because it is a good reference point. Interesting, so are you saying French too doesnt bother in differentiating between insensitive vs Insensible/senseless? In urdu there are quite a few that come to mind but as you say the one above can be used under both circumstances.

In Urdu nevertheless, how would you say "irresponsive to surrounding stimuli".


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## marrish

Sheikh_14 said:


> In Urdu nevertheless, how would you say "irresponsive to surrounding stimuli".


sun سُن.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Apart from _*sunn*_, as suggested by marrish Sb., we can add the word* shall *too. (translated as _*beHiss o Harkat*_)


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