# Direct and indirect objects - voy a ayudar/lo/le



## rafa

Hi -

I am a serious Spanish language student and I need someone to explain to me why some verbs in Spanish can take both the direct and indirect objects.

Example: amar

_Yo amo a esa persona. _" - I love (to) that person.") - indirect object

But:

_Yo la amo._ - "I love her/him." - direct object

Also, I am not sure whether the verb "ayudar" also takes the direct or indirect object depending on the position of the object, but I have heard many people say_ Voy a ayudar a esa persona_ and _Le voy a ayudar_ instead of _Voy a ayudar esa persona_ or _La voy a ayudar._

Lastly, could someone please recommend a book that lists all the verbs in Spanish that take direct objects, indirect objects, both, and also verbs followed by prepositions such as _acabar de, decidirse a, etc._

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
Rafa


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## bofico

Dear Rafa,

In your examples....

"Yo amo a esa persona."

and 

"Yo la amo."

....both take a direct object: *a esa persona* and *la* are direct objects. ("*La*" is a direct object pronoun).

Ayudar takes a direct object. It happens though, in different dialects of Spanish, *le* substitutes for *lo*, in a phenomenon referred to as *leísmo* vs. *loísmo* (complicating matters even more so for the Spanish student).

Any decent grammar book will have verb idioms with prepositions. Even the _wordreference.com_ dictionary does a pretty good job, so you might start there.


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## rafa

Hi Bofico -

Thanks for your reply. Actually, I am also a student of French, and any verb that is followed by the preposition "à" (to) automatically takes an indirect object. In the case of Spanish, are you saying that the preposition "a" can be used with direct objects all the time? The reason they call it "direct object" is just that - there is no preposition whatsoever before the noun, so I am a bit confused when you said that "yo amo a esa persona" and "yo la amo" are both direct objects, and if they are both direct objects, then could we say, "yo amo esa persona" (without "a" in it)??? 


Rafa


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## gms

Dear Rafa,

The direct and indirect objects are verbs modifiers (modificadores del verbo).
To help you know when it´s a direct or inderct object follow this instructions:

Objeto directo (OD): Responde a las preguntas ¿qué cosa + verbo? O ¿a quién + verbo?. Se lo puede reemplazar por los pronombres lo, la, los, las.

Objeto indirecto (OI): Responde a las preguntas ¿para quién + verbo? Se lo puede reemplazar por los pronombres le o les.

If this is not enough, you could find some extra help in:
http://www.equipoweb.com.ar/eduteca/buscar.html (search for: objeto directo / objeto indirecto).

Regards,


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## bofico

forget french, stick to spanish.

When the direct object is a specific person, then it is introduced by the preposition "a". 

Since "esa persona" is a specific person, yes it is incorrect to say

"yo amo esa persona" without the "a".

I think some grammarians refer to this as the "personal a" in Spanish.


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## rafa

Hi GMS and Bofico -

Thank you for all your help. Now everything makes sense! I will probably have more questions later and I hope you will be there to help! 

Cheers.
Rafa


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## bofico

Yes, rafa, I will always be there for you (when it comes to Spanish Grammar).


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## Rayines

Two rules, if this can help:
The Direct Object always becomes the subject of the passive voice:
Cierro la puerta>>>>>> *La puerta* es cerrada por mí.
Amo a mis padres>>>>>*Mis padres* son amados por mí.
(Then, here you have when a verb accepts a D.O.)

Another informal rule: With the Indirect Object, the verb always goes with preposition( a/para). With the Direct Object, it may go with it (a) or without it, as the examples in the other messages show.


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## toniga

I think that the bottom line is that "la" en " la amo" is an object pronoun, therefore there is no need for the preposition "a". But, in "amo a esa persona" you do need the preposition "a" for the direct object .  

Yo amo is intransitive as you mentioned before.

In English "I Love you" in Spanish "Yo te amo" . It is the same use, isn't it?
I love (intransitive, needs preposition OR object pronoun (no preposition).

I hope this helps.


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## Rayines

To complet Toniga's mail, I think -not absolutely sure, although I use it daily- that the Direct Object "asks" for the preposition specially when it refers to persons or animals : "Él ama a sus padres/a su perro", but not when it refers to a thing, or action: "Él ama la pintura"; also: "Capturaron a esas personas", but "Capturó su corazón".


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## JitterJive

rafa said:
			
		

> Hi -
> 
> I am a serious Spanish language student and I need someone to explain to me why some verbs in Spanish can take both the direct and indirect objects.
> 
> Example: amar
> 
> _Yo amo a esa persona. _" - I love (to) that person.") - indirect object
> 
> But:
> 
> _Yo la amo._ - "I love her/him." - direct object
> 
> Also, I am not sure whether the verb "ayudar" also takes the direct or indirect object depending on the position of the object, but I have heard many people say_ Voy a ayudar a esa persona_ and _Le voy a ayudar_ instead of _Voy a ayudar esa persona_ or _La voy a ayudar._
> 
> *Lastly, could someone please recommend a book that lists all the verbs in Spanish that take direct objects, indirect objects, both, and also verbs followed by prepositions such as acabar de, decidirse a, etc.*
> 
> Any help would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks
> Rafa


Hi Rafa,

Good news! There is no need for such a book.  When looking up verbs in the dictionary look to see if it is transitive, _vt_, or intransitive, _vi_.   Transitive verbs take a direct object and intransitive verbs do not.  Some verbs can be both but then the meaning will differ to some degree.

As for a book that lists verbs that require a preposition, I would recommend 501 Spanish Verbs (Christopher Kendris).  This lists, at the end, some of the most common.  But again, keep your eyes open when looking up verbs in the dictionary because usage with prepositions is denoted there also.


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## gddrew

I recommend _A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish_ (ISBN 0658008730), which is indispensible to any serious student of Spanish grammar. It does a very thorough job of explaining le(s) vs. lo(s)/la(s).


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## dave

This is fascinating - glad this thread got bumped. I raised exactly the same issue as Rafa with my (native) Spanish teacher last year. He started by telling me that the objects in sentences such as:

Yo amo a mi novia
Puedo ver a tu hermano

were indirect objects. However when I suggested to him that this made no sense, as they are replaced by a direct object pronoun, he admitted that he didn't know. He had also never heard of the 'personal a'.

My own conclusions, of which I would be grateful for confirmation (or otherwise!) were as follows:

The 'personal a' is not a preposition (this was quite a jump in logic for me and was met with a shrug of the shoulders from my teacher, so I'm not particularly confident), and therefore the object following a 'personal a' is always a direct object. Thus, a direct object pronoun would be needed:

Yo la amo
Puedo verlo (or 'verle' - I really don't want to get into a discussion about 'leismo')

However in sentences such as:

Me acerco a mi madre  (I am approaching my mother)

the 'a' is NOT the 'personal a', because the verb 'acercarse' always takes 'a', whether followed by a person or not, and this somehow takes precedence over the 'personal a'. Therefore this 'a' is a preposition, and thus the object (mi madre) is an indirect object.

Therefore, replacing the object with a pronoun (I'm approaching her) will require an indirect  object pronoun:

Me le acerco (a ella)

Does this make any sense? Any ideas? This has been confusing me for a long time. Grateful for any comments. Gracias!


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## gddrew

dave said:
			
		

> This is fascinating - glad this thread got bumped. I raised exactly the same issue as Rafa with my (native) Spanish teacher last year. He started by telling me that the objects in sentences such as:
> 
> Yo amo a mi novia
> Puedo ver a tu hermano
> 
> were indirect objects. However when I suggested to him that this made no sense, as they are replaced by a direct object pronoun, he admitted that he didn't know. He had also never heard of the 'personal a'.
> 
> My own conclusions, of which I would be grateful for confirmation (or otherwise!) were as follows:
> 
> The 'personal a' is not a preposition (this was quite a jump in logic for me and was met with a shrug of the shoulders from my teacher, so I'm not particularly confident), and therefore the object following a 'personal a' is always a direct object. Thus, a direct object pronoun would be needed:
> 
> Yo la amo
> Puedo verlo (or 'verle' - I really don't want to get into a discussion about 'leismo')
> 
> However in sentences such as:
> 
> Me acerco a mi madre  (I am approaching my mother)
> 
> the 'a' is NOT the 'personal a', because the verb 'acercarse' always takes 'a', whether followed by a person or not, and this somehow takes precedence over the 'personal a'. Therefore this 'a' is a preposition, and thus the object (mi madre) is an indirect object.
> 
> Therefore, replacing the object with a pronoun (I'm approaching her) will require an indirect  object pronoun:
> 
> Me le acerco (a ella)
> 
> Does this make any sense? Any ideas? This has been confusing me for a long time. Grateful for any comments. Gracias!



Dave, I'm not sure that a direct object pronoun necessarily always follows the "personal a". It depends on the verb. For instance, the verb _decir_ always takes an indirect object pronoun because you don't *say* a person, you say _something _ *to* a person. For example: _Yo le dije a Juan ayer que vendría el lunes._ What has served me well is to think about the verb and how it interacts with the object. You can _amar_ somebody, you can _ver_ somebody, but you cannot _decir _ somebody, you have to decir _words_ _to_ somebody.


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## David

When a person, or some animals, as Rayines points out, is the object of a verb, Spanish requires the use of the preposition _a_, which effectively means that a person or pet can´t be a direct object in Spanish, grammatically speaking. (I say _some_ animals, because you would say Él ama a su perro, but I think you would say "Encerraron la vaca en el corral," or "Los campesinos que mataron el gorila no se dieron cuenta de su importancia en el reino animal.") Where this gets tricky is in the use of object pronouns, direct lo, la, las, and indirect le, le, les. Is it correct to say "Lo llamaré a las 4," when the [/I]lo_ stands for "a Juan"? Spanish has "leistas," who argue that you must say "le llamaré a las 4," because le=a él, and _loistas_, who argue that one should say "Lo llamaré a las 4," because lo is the direct object pronoun. Maybe the scholars among us can tell us whether this debate has ever been resolved, but for the time being some people say "lo llamaré," and some people say "le llamaré," and therefore a certain inconsistency between direct and indirect objects is endemic._


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## David

We are talking about direct-indirect here and transitive-intransitive verbs.

_Amar_ is a transitive verb. _Amo el beisbol._ It takes a direct object, unlike intransitive verbs such as to dare or to persuade. But even for transitive verbs, Spanish requires the personal _a_ before a personal object, meaning that you can't love somebody, you have to love _to_ him, her or it. _To say_ is also transitive: _I said two words to him. Words_ is the direct object, _him _ is the indirect object. In Spanish: _Yo le dije tres palabras._ Here _le_ is the indirect object pronoun, and _ palabras_ is the direct object. So far so good.

The problem is this: If _amar _ requires the personal _a_ between verb and object, it means that the love-object of the verb _amar_, clearly a direct object of a transitive verb, becomes an indirect object because of the personal _a_. So is it proper to use _le amo_ or _lo amo_!?! This is what _leistas_ and _loistas_ fight about. Get it? Sorry your Spanish teacher couldn´t help you, but you have stumbled on the greatest grammatical debate of the world´s third largest linguistic community. Is it proper to say "Lo vi en el centro" (I saw him downtown) or "Le vi en el centro"? Most people would say "Yo lo vi ayer," but the _leistas_ would argue that in the sentence "Le viste _a_ él,"you have to use  _le_, the indirect or dative pronnoun, not _lo_, the accusative or direct-object pronoun. What do you think?


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## Rayines

> If amar requires the personal a between verb and object, it means that the love-object of the verb amar, clearly a direct object of a transitive verb, becomes an indirect object because of the personal a


Oh, no, no...whenever you can turn the sentence into the pasive voice, and the object becomes its subject: "Amo el béisbol">>>>>>>>>"El béisbol es amado por mí", or "Amo a mi madre">>>>>>"Mi madre es amada por mí", you are in presence of Direct Object.


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## dave

Thanks all, but I’m still a little confused!

It seems that David is suggesting that the object in the sentence
_Amo a mi madre_
Is in indirect object, because it follows a preposition.

Whilst Rayines is suggesting that it is a direct object, presumably because the ‘personal a’ is not a standard preposition (which is what I had concluded in the absence of a competent teacher).

I don’t think this is a ‘leismo’ issue, is it? As I understand it, the _le/lo_ argument only arises in the case of male object pronouns. In David’s example sentence, if we change Juan to Juanita, which is the correct answer;
_La llamare a las 4_
or
_Le llamare a las 4_?
My guess would be the first, but whichever it is, I don’t think it would be disputed by the ‘le/losistas’

Similarly, 
_Amo a mi madre_
always becomes
_La amo_
doesn’t it? There is no suggestion that it should be ‘_Le amo’_, as the pronoun is clearly a direct object and this is not disputed. The only argument is with ‘_Amo a mi padre_’ and whether this should become ‘_Lo amo_’ or ‘_Le amo_’, and this argument is not because of uncertainty as to whether or not the object is indirect or direct, but because of disagreement about which is the correct form of the direct object pronoun referring to male persons?

I understand that
_Yo (le) dije a Juan/Juanita_
becomes
_Yo le dije_
This is because the a is not the ‘personal a’, but a straightforward preposition (I said to him/her).

Please tell me if I have completely missed the point here!

Any more advice? Thanks.


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## gddrew

I've never thought of the "a" of the "personal a" as a preposition, thus in my ignorance the _le_ vs _lo/la _ hasn't been much of an issue.

I still recommend the grammar text I cited previously, as it discusses this issue. As far as settling the argument between _leistas_ of Spain and elsewhere who maintain you should always use _le_ with human males and the _loistas_, the _RAE_ has come down on the side of direct object uses _lo/la/los/las_, indirect uses _le/les_.


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## gotitadeleche

dave said:
			
		

> Thanks all, but I’m still a little confused!
> 
> It seems that David is suggesting that the object in the sentence
> _Amo a mi madre_
> Is in indirect object, because it follows a preposition.
> 
> Whilst Rayines is suggesting that it is a direct object, presumably because the ‘personal a’ is not a standard preposition (which is what I had concluded in the absence of a competent teacher).
> 
> I don’t think this is a ‘leismo’ issue, is it? As I understand it, the _le/lo_ argument only arises in the case of male object pronouns. In David’s example sentence, if we change Juan to Juanita, which is the correct answer;
> _La llamare a las 4_
> or
> _Le llamare a las 4_?
> My guess would be the first, but whichever it is, I don’t think it would be disputed by the ‘le/losistas’
> 
> Similarly,
> _Amo a mi madre_
> always becomes
> _La amo_
> doesn’t it? There is no suggestion that it should be ‘_Le amo’_, as the pronoun is clearly a direct object and this is not disputed. The only argument is with ‘_Amo a mi padre_’ and whether this should become ‘_Lo amo_’ or ‘_Le amo_’, and this argument is not because of uncertainty as to whether or not the object is indirect or direct, but because of disagreement about which is the correct form of the direct object pronoun referring to male persons?
> 
> I understand that
> _Yo (le) dije a Juan/Juanita_
> becomes
> _Yo le dije_
> This is because the a is not the ‘personal a’, but a straightforward preposition (I said to him/her).
> 
> Please tell me if I have completely missed the point here!
> 
> Any more advice? Thanks.



What you are saying makes sense to me. I see it much like you do.


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## dave

gddrew said:
			
		

> I've never thought of the "a" of the "personal a" as a preposition, thus in my ignorance the _le_ vs _lo/la _ hasn't been much of an issue.
> 
> I still recommend the grammar text I cited previously, as it discusses this issue. As far as settling the argument between _leistas_ of Spain and elsewhere who maintain you should always use _le_ with human males and the _loistas_, the _RAE_ has come down on the side of direct object uses _lo/la/los/las_, indirect uses _le/les_.




Thanks drew. I've got the New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish that you mention - while it does indeed do a thorough job on the 'leismo' issue, it doesn't seem to explain some of the more basic non-leismo issues, such as when is an object direct or indirect! I'll have another look at it tonight to see if I've missed something (or, more likely, just not understood it!).


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## dave

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> What you are saying makes sense to me. I see it much like you do.



Thanks gotita - I'm glad I'm not alone!


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## Rayines

Look, Dave:

In :
1) "Amo los deportes", as you can say:"Los deportes son amados por mí", los deportes is the D.O.
2) "Amo a mi madre", as you can say: "Mi madre es amada por mí", mi madre is the D.O.

In: 
3) "Le di un regalo a mi madre" a mi madre is Indirect object. (Also le= a ella) is part of the I.O.

Both in 2 and 3, "a" is a preposition, but you recognize the I.O. in 3, because "a mi madre" can't be turned into the subject of a pasive voice (here "regalo" is the D.O.)
And without entering in the discussion about "leísmo", "le" is always correct when it's in the place of the indirect object (like in 3); but when it replaces "lo" and "la" as O.D (In 2, it would be: Le amo, instead of la amo)...well...this is another question....


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## Barryc76

gddrew said:
			
		

> the _RAE_ has come down on the side of direct object uses _lo/la/los/las_, indirect uses _le/les_.


Not so. Here is what the RAE (Royal Academia Espanola) says about "le": "pron. person. Forma de dativo de 3.ª persona singular en masculino y femenino. Le dije. *U. t. c. [also used as] acus. del mismo pron. en sing. y m.* No admite preposición, y en ambos usos se puede emplear como enclítico. Dale el libro. Síguele."


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## Pitt

dave said:


> Me acerco a mi madre (I am approaching my mother)
> 
> the 'a' is NOT the 'personal a', because the verb 'acercarse' always takes 'a', whether followed by a person or not, and this somehow takes precedence over the 'personal a'. Therefore this 'a' is a preposition, and thus the object (mi madre) is an indirect object.
> 
> Therefore, replacing the object with a pronoun (I'm approaching her) will require an indirect object pronoun:
> 
> Me le acerco (a ella)
> 
> /quote]
> 
> En mi opinión son posibles ambas interpretaciones:
> 
> Me acerco a mi madre > Me acerco a ella: a ella = complemento de régimen
> Me acerco a mi madre > Me le acerco: le = complemento indirecto


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## Marias-espanol

Hola,
Check these out; http://www.studyspanish.com/tutorial.htm ; See unit 2 lesson 26; and unit 4 lessons 40-47.   I hope this helps.
María


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## lazarus1907

David said:


> The problem is this: If _amar _ requires the personal _a_ between verb and object, it means that the love-object of the verb _amar_, clearly a direct object of a transitive verb, becomes an indirect object because of the personal _a_.


No, it still remains a direct object.





David said:


> So is it proper to use _le amo_ or _lo amo_!?! This is what _leistas_ and _loistas_ fight about. Get it? Sorry your Spanish teacher couldn´t help you, but you have stumbled on the greatest grammatical debate of the world´s third largest linguistic community.


The debate is about whether it is correct to use "le(s)" for direct objects (leísmo), but no one says that in "Le Ama" this "le" is an indirect object. Spanish people maybe use it because of the resemblance of "a su marido" with an indirect object, but sintactically it is very easy to prove that it still remains a direct object.





David said:


> Is it proper to say "Lo vi en el centro" (I saw him downtown) or "Le vi en el centro"? Most people would say "Yo lo vi ayer," but the _leistas_ would argue that in the sentence "Le viste _a_ él,"you have to use  _le_, the indirect or dative pronnoun, not _lo_, the accusative or direct-object pronoun. What do you think?


"Lo vi en el centro" is what most Spanish speakers would say in the world, and any person who has studied enough grammar would tell you that it is correct, even if this person is a leísta and prefers to say "Le vi". I am leísta, for example.


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