# What is this? What is that?



## mikasa_90

They mean '' ce e acest'' , '' ce e acel''?

This is a man= acest e un baiat

This is a dog= acest e un caine

That is a woman= acela e o femeneia

That is a cat= acela e o pisica

Is it good?


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## OldAvatar

mikasa_90 said:


> They mean '' ce e acest'' , '' ce e acel''?
> 
> This is a man= acest e un baiat
> 
> This is a dog= acest e un caine
> 
> That is a woman= acela e o femeneia
> 
> That is a cat= acela e o pisica
> 
> Is it good?



Not really...

This is a man = _Acesta este un bărbat._
This is a dog = _Acesta este un câine._
That is a woman = _Aceea este o femeie._
That is a cat = _Aceea este o pisică._


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## Trisia

mikasa_90 said:


> They mean '' ce e acest'' , '' ce e acel''?



OldAvatar gave you the correct answers.

To answer your first question, we ask usually: "Ce este aceasta?" (this) and "Ce este aceea/acela?" (that)
You can use the form you mentioned, but you have to add something: "Ce este acel/acest lucru?" (What is that/this thing?)

EDIT: and something tells me I must be wrong


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## SerinusCanaria3075

This is indeed a bit confusing since in Spanish/Italian the "demonstratives" seem  to work differently (they're still hard to work with) but I've noticed there are some complexities when it comes to using the adjectives before or after a noun (it's killing me):



OldAvatar said:


> Not really...
> 
> That is a woman = _Aceea este o femeie._
> That is a cat = _Aceea este o pisică._


Now, here the feminine *pronoun *"aceea" is used, correct? So if I were to use the demonstrative *adjective* "acea" the form would vary depending on where it is placed, right?:

_Acea femeie  Femeia aceea_.
_Acea vreme  Vremea aceea_.
_Acea casă  Casa aceea_.

So are my "guesses" correct or do I need to modify something?


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## Trisia

No, you're actually astoundingly correct.


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## SerinusCanaria3075

Great (that was the easy part though ). My other question is about the genitive-dative. 


> _*Acea* femeie  Femeia *aceea*_.


If my logic is correct, one should use "*acelei*" with the first example and "*aceleia*" with the second, _i.e_. with the -_*a *_at the end (unless I'm mistaken). 

So here's what I came up with (it's okay to laugh):
_*Acel *doctor._
_îi voi da *acelui* doctor un cadou_.

_Doctorul *acela*_. 
_Doctorul bătrân al *aceluia* spital m-a spus_...

(Sorry if it's unpleasant to the eye, but I'm trying to say:
Le voy a dar a aquel doctor un regalo. / El doctor viejo de aquel hospital me ha dicho...)


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## Trisia

Close.



> Îi voi da *acelei *femei un cadou
> Îi voi da femeii *aceleia *un cadou.



So far so good.



> _*Acel *doctor. _
> _îi voi da *acelui* doctor un cadou_.


Still good.



> Doctorul *acela*.
> _Doctorul bătrân al *aceluia* spital m-a spus_...


 Aici ai gresit, pentru că nu ai fost atent  *Aceluia *la tine se referă la spital.  Doctorul bătrân al *acelui *spital mi-a spus...

Îi voi da doctorului aceluia un cadou.


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## mikasa_90

I don't understand the use of dative accusative.

Can you teach me the use?


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## SerinusCanaria3075

Anch'io sono confuso, ma credo che questo potrebbe aiutarci un po':



			
				Trisia said:
			
		

> Îi voi da *acelei *femei un cadou (_il sostantivo segue la forma *dativa*, quindi bisogna usare "acelei" senza l'ultima "-a"__)_
> 
> Îi voi da femeii *aceleia *un cadou.  (_in questo caso "femeii" precede la forma *dativa*, ma bisogna aggiungere una "-*a*" _)
> 
> _(Comunque, credo che tutt'e due si possono tradurre come "darò_ _*a quella* donna_ _un regalo_")


 
My question:
When the noun comes after "*acelei *" all I need to do is use the plural with *no article* at all. 
When the noun comes before "*aceleia*" one must use the genitive-dative form on that noun, correct?

So....
_Le voi da *acelor *femei un cadou._
_Le voi da femeilor *acelora *un cadou._

_îi voi arăta acelui lup un peşte_. (no plural needed for masculine/neuter singular names, right?)
_îi voi arăta lup*ului* aceluia un peşte_. (not sure about the gen-dat form)

_Le voi arăta acelor regi un creion_. 
_Le voi arăta regi*lor* acelora un creion_. (again, not sure about the gen-dat form)

Are these forms correct?


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## OldAvatar

In order to identify the correct case, you need to know the questions that the respective word answers to.

I recommend to use the first form of all phrases you presented, for example:

_Le voi da *acelor *femei un cadou.

_The second phrases generate (i.e. _Le voi da femeilor *acelora *un cadou._) a bit of confusion and, to be honest, I'm not sure if they are correct, we'll have to wait for someone who's got a better memory of the grammar learned in school.

For me, the correct form would be 
_Le voi da femeilor *acelea *un cadou
_that would be the case if you wouldn't like to tell that the women belong to some others but you only want to say *those women*. I mean, having both genitive and dative next to eachother looks, indeed, a bit tricky.

But again, let's wait for some other points of view.


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## SerinusCanaria3075

OldAvatar said:


> _Le voi da femeilor *acelea *un cadou_.


So the simplest way is to use the plural feminine pronoun. This is the part that seems to give foreigners the most trouble, since in Spanish one would use the demonstrative adjective rather than the pronoun (which replaces that which has already been said).

So the demonstrative adjectives in Romanian are less common? When would it be appropriate to use _acele femei _(if ever)?


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## OldAvatar

_Acelea _is a demonstrative pronoun. (ex. femeilor acelea)
_Aceleaşi _(the same women)is a demonstrative adjective. (ex. aceleaşi femei (accusative form) / aceloraşi femei (genitive form))


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## SerinusCanaria3075

I just noticed something (after a week) in the following:



> _Le voi da femeilor *acelea *un cadou._


Did you mean to put "_*acelei*a" _in the dative or is it supposed to be in the nominative-accusative like you put it?

I ask this because of the following sentences that I found:

_Le-am arătat studenților *acestor*a materialele_. 

_Le-am arătat acestor studen*t*i materialele._

(or does the masculine gender act different?)


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## OldAvatar

I'm confused, I didn't use _aceleia. Acele*i*a _is genitiv, feminine, singular. _Acelea (in this situation) _is accusative, feminine, plural...

Crăciun fericit!


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