# Menschelyk vermaak



## robertmonnier

Hi, I'm trying to make sense of an inscription on a piece of furniture that dates from the 19th century, perhaps earlier. This writing desk has a cylinder cover that slides up as the writing table is pulled out. It is very elegant with mahogany veneer. Once the cylinder is open, there is a series of drawers, with a central piece and two lateral vertical "drawers" that have the height and width of a book spine, with the ribbing, gold lettering, flowery decorations.

As the title on the "book spines", there are two words : "MENSCHELYK VERMAAK". I've come to a translation that would be : "Amusement of humanity". Does that seem to make sense ? Would you have a better suggestion ?

Here follows a picture of the piece. If you are familiar with Dutch furniture, does this piece seem to belong to a Dutch tradition ?






Thank you very much,


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## Peterdg

"MENSCHELYK VERMAAK" is antiquated Dutch.

The translation you got is more or less OK; at least it gives an idea of what it means. I would rather translate it as "popular entertainment" or something alike.

I don't know if this type of furniture is originally from the Netherlands, but we do know it (I'm Belgian though): we call it "secretaire". I do have something like this in our house (it's old), but it does not have all these rounded shapes.


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## robertmonnier

Peterdg said:


> "MENSCHELYK VERMAAK" is antiquated Dutch.
> 
> The translation you got is more or less OK; at least it gives an idea of what it means. I would rather translate it as "popular entertainment" or something alike.
> 
> I don't know if this type of furniture is originally from the Netherlands, but we do know it (I'm Belgian though): we call it "secretaire". I do have something like this in our house (it's old), but it does not have all these rounded shapes.


Thanks for your answer, your fine tuning of the translation, and for pointing out that it's not current Dutch. I suppose it couldn't be stretched to "popular education", that "vermaak" refers to entertainment, not education ?

My main communication language is French, as a matter of fact I'm French, and I hope it is  OK to communicate in English in this forum. So yes, I agree fully with your description as "secrétaire".

Apparently the word "vermaak" is still present in Afrikaans today. I found references to both words in a 2010 thesis from Leiden University, "La Réception du théâtre de Voltaire dans les Provinces-Unies au XVIIIème siècle", by Marjolein Hageman (https://scholarlypublications.universiteitleiden.nl/access/item:2962295/view).

The author mentions private "societies" presenting Voltaire plays in their theaters. One was "la société “Leerzaam Vermaak” (Amusement Instructif) à Haarlem", and the other " la société « Vermaak na zorg en werk » (le plaisir après les soucis et le travail)" in Groningue, Leliestraat.

A Voltaire play was translated under the title "« Dolen is menschelyk, vergeven Goddelyk » (Pécher est humain, pardonner est divin)"

As for the secrétaire, I would seem to me now it dates from early 19th century, rather than late; or perhaps from very late 18th.

Any further information would be much appreciated. Thanks,
Robert Monnier


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## ThomasK

No, no, "vermaak" is entertainment, so literally 'human entertainment' or "entertainment of - or for - people". I'd hesitate to translate it as "popular entertainment". It is not meant to be instructive as such: "leerzaam vermaak" is not a pleonasm. 

"Dolen" is "to err", as in "error", literally going the (ethically/...) wrong way, wandering around without knowing/ finding the right way. Translating that as "pècher" would be too strong, I think. 

Such secretaires were quite common, were often used to impress people, before being replaced by desks. Wikipedia refers to Louis XVI's sécretaire. So they are quite old, you could say.


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## robertmonnier

Thank you Peterdg and ThomasK for helping me in my first forays in Dutch, a short trip but very interesting. I am happy the inscriptions on the "book spines" now make a little more sense, I was wondering if it was the name of the cabinetmaker. And I hope this unit now goes on to continue its life in a useful way.


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## Peterdg

robertmonnier said:


> Apparently the word "vermaak" is still present in Afrikaans today.


It's also still present in current Dutch. The antiquated part is "MENSCHELYK".


robertmonnier said:


> I suppose it couldn't be stretched to "popular education", that "vermaak" refers to entertainment, not education ?


"vermaak" has nothing to do with education; it's entertainment.



ThomasK said:


> I'd hesitate to translate it as "popular entertainment".


Why hesitate? "Popular in English" is not exactly he same as "populair" in Dutch. It literally means "of the people" and, as a derived meaning, also the same as "populair" in Dutch.


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## ThomasK

Peterdg said:


> Why hesitate? "Popular in English" is not exactly he same as "populair" in Dutch. It literally means "of the people" and, as a derived meaning, also the same as "populair" in Dutch.


I am not so sure it has a different meaning. When I check at etymonline.com, I read: "early 15c., populer, "public, commonly known," from Old French populaire and directly from L*atin popularis "belonging to the people,* general, common; devoted to or accepted by the people; democratic," from populus "people" (see people (n.)). So, my guess is that it has not meant "of the people"in English. 
Nor do I see it listed at m-w.com. The first meaning mentioned is "1: of or relating to the general public"... 

But you can prove me wrong, if you think you have other information!


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## Peterdg

Webster's New World Dictionary:


> *popular*: 1) of or carried on by the common people or all the people. 2) Appealing to or intended for the general public.
> Etc.


Those are the meanings I was referring to and that, in my opinion, cover what I meant with "popular entertainment".. 

This dictionary lists 4 more meanings.


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## ThomasK

I think I see what you mean, but can "menselyck/ menselijk" really imply that? Maybe it can: menselijk = for all the people. But... --- I had not associated it with that...


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