# stalo sie to kosztem (czegos) / wykonano to kosztem (czegos)



## a.d.a.m

prosze o pmoc

Jak po angielsku zbudowac wyrazenie odpowiadajace polskiemu "[cos zrobiono/osiagnieto] *kosztem *[czegos]" np.

Zniszczenia usunieto *kosztem* ogromnego wysilku wszystkich mieszkancow.
Zakonczylem projekt na czas *kosztem *kilku nieprzespanych nocy.
Doceniam Twoje osiagniecia z matematyki, choc ubolewam, ze stalo sie to *kosztem *obnizenia ocen z jezyka polskiego.


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## dreamlike

Wypadałoby zacząć od tego, że np. w Twoim pierwszym zdaniu tej konstrukcji w ogóle bym nie użył. Słowo "kosztem" zastąpił bym czasownikiem "okupić".
_Usunięcie zniszczeń okupiono ogromnym wysiłkiem wszystkich mieszkańców. 
_
Konstrukcja, której szukasz to "at the expense of" / "at the cost of" albo "to the detriment of":
(2) I finished my project on time *at the cost / at the expense* of a few sleepless nights. 
(3) I appreciate your maths' results, but I resent the fact that they are *to the detriment of* your Polish grades.


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## BezierCurve

W dwóch pierwszych zdaniach można też trochę mniej dramatycznie, za to bardziej potocznie: it took... (It took me a few sleepless nights to finish my project.)


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## LilianaB

Hi. I would personally translate the first one using _with_. "The damages were removed with the collective effort of all the inhabitants of X. " 
These Polish phrases cannot really be represented by one construction in English, in my opinion. 
You can use _with_, in the second one as well. " I finished the project on time with the sacrifice of a few nights' sleep, or sacrificing a few nights' sleep. "  
"I appreciate (or I am happy about -- even better) your achievements in math, although I really feel sorry that it has cost you lower grades in Polish." Maybe you can use: "it came with the sacrifice of your grades in Polish."


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## dreamlike

The OP asked about some particular construction corresponding to the Polish "kosztem czegoś". I too can think of a dozen better ways to render the sentence, and wouldn't really use "kosztem" even in the Polish sentences, but that's of no importance.



LilianaB said:


> These Polish phrases cannot really be represented by on construction in English, in my opinion.
> "


Of course they can, but it wouldn't sound good, and the Polish sentences suffer from several drawbacks, that's why it's difficult to translate them properly....


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## LilianaB

The Polish sentences seem perfectly natural to me.  (There is nothing wrong with them, for everyday use, as opposed to an academic paper, perhaps).

What one construction would you use in English for all three of them, and what makes you feel that they definitely could?


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## dreamlike

I wouldn't use one construction for all of them if only because I wouldn't use "kosztem czegoś" altogether, for instance in the first sentence. I could force in "at the expense/cost of" to the other two, but that would to the detriment of  these sentences - they wouldn't sound good. 

The sentences are fit to be used in formal writing rather than in everyday use, note the usage of "ubolewam" - it most certainly doesn't translate as "I feel sorry that" but rather "I resent the fact that".


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## LilianaB

They really seem fine, to me Dreamlike. I just think different constructions should be used to translate them into English. (not one for all).


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## polskiprl

LilianaB said:


> Hi. I would personally translate the first one using _with_.
> 
> "The damages were removed with the collective effort of all the inhabitants of X. "



*Zniszczenia* usunięto kosztem ogromnego wysiłku wszystkich mieszkańców.

*Zniszczenia* is plural in Polish, but in English it is an uncountable singular noun: *damage*. 
As such, the word *damage* does not have any plural form in English.
In fact, having added *s* to *damage* we get a new noun which means *zadośćuczynienie*, that is a form of financial compensation for something, usually ordered by a court of law.
This means that Liliana's sentence translates into Polish like this:

Zadośćuczynienie zostały usunięte zbiorowym wysiłkiem wszystkich mieszkańców.

However, we are to translate into English a sentence a bit different: 

*Zniszczenia* usunięto kosztem ogromnego wysiłku wszystkich mieszkańców.


_By huge collective effort of all citizens the damage was undone.
By huge collective effort of all inhabitants was the damage undone.
The damage was undone by huge collective effort of the whole community.
_


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## LilianaB

No, damages has a plural form in English, in the sense of loss. It is mostly used in legal language this way, in personal injury, as one of the legal fields. I think in this sentence you can use either one. Damages has also a different meaning -- as a monetary award for any type of loss or injury, but it is often used in the plural in pleadings just to mean losses, at least in AE. https://wwwnet1.state.nj.us/DOS/Admin/ArchivesDBPortal/RevWarDamages.aspx 

""Zadośćuczynienie" is not the right translation of damages in the sense of "compensation" -- "kompensaja" is usually used in legal papers. I don't think "undone" is the best word here -- damage can be compensated for but not really undone;  the results can be removed, or healed, but not really undone, in my opinion.

"Zadośćuczynienie" is more often used in the sense repentance -- "zadośćuczynienie za grzechy" -- repentance for your sins -- in legal contexts "kompensacja" is used.

http://jids.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/1/205.abstract

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog030/node/377

Maybe a better wording would be: "The results of the damage were cleared". It really depends on the context.


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## polskiprl

dreamlike said:


> Wypadałoby zacząć od tego, że np. w Twoim pierwszym zdaniu tej konstrukcji w ogóle bym nie użył. Słowo "kosztem" zastąpił bym czasownikiem "okupić".
> 
> _Usunięcie zniszczeń okupiono ogromnym wysiłkiem wszystkich mieszkańców.
> _
> Konstrukcja, której szukasz to "at the expense of" / "at the cost of" albo "to the detriment of":
> (2) I finished my project on time *at the cost / at the expense* of a few sleepless nights.
> (3) I appreciate your maths' results, but I resent the fact that they are *to the detriment of* your Polish grades.



 If you let me suggest a correction to translation, would you please take a look at the following sentences:

_I appreciate your maths *achievements* - doceniam twoje *osiągnięcia* z matematyki
I appreciate your maths *results* - doceniam twoje *wyniki* z matematyki
_


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## polskiprl

LilianaB said:


> No, damages has a plural form in English, in the sense of loss. It is mostly used in legal language this way, in personal injury, as one of the legal fields. I think in this sentence you can use either one. Damages has also a different meaning -- as a monetary award for any type of loss or injury, but it is often used in the plural in pleadings just to mean losses, at least in AE.
> 
> 
> 
> ""Zadośćuczynienie" is not the right translation of damages in the sense of "compensation" -- "kompensaja" is usually used in legal papers. I don't think "undone" is the best word here -- damage can be compensated for but not really undone;  the results can be removed, or healed, but not really undone, in my opinion.
> 
> "Zadośćuczynienie" is more often used in the sense repentance -- "zadośćuczynienie za grzechy" -- repentance for your sins -- in legal contexts "kompensacja" is used.



*Zadośćuczynienie* is a legal term included in the Polish Civil Code, and its English translation is *damages*. I'm sorry, Liliana, but this is the fact which contradicts what you have written above about the missing legal context of zadośćuczynienie, which - contrary to your words - has been described in the articles 445 i 448 of the Polish Civil Code. 

Zadośćuczynienie is also a part of repentance for sins, however, it's not relevant here as it does not translate in English as damage or damages. 

*to remove damage* does not sound to me well enough, however *to undo damage* sounds not well enough either. 

*Does anybody know the proper English word for action (performed by the whole community) which brings back previous shape of a city after a disaster, tornado, earthquake or air ride?* Is the verb *remove* right if used in such context? Maybe the verb *repair* is better?

By huge collective effort of all citizens the damage was repaired.
By huge collective effort of all inhabitants was the damage repaired.
The damage was repaired by huge collective effort of the whole community.


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## LilianaB

I think you really need "achievements* in* math". "Achievements" is fine in this context. The quetion was really about finding a fixed structure in English that would correspond to particular structures in Polish. 

As to the other part -- about " zadośćuczynienie" I have to check into it. It seems really unlikely, but if you are using it in Poland, that's fine. It is not used this way by any bilingual court glossaries in the New New York State, or New Jersey (glossaries prepared by Polish linguists and lawyers) or any legal documents in Polish related to injuries or property damage,or compensation for moral damages, in the US. I have never heard any bilingual lawyer use this term, at all, maybe because of the religious connotations. Is it is most likely the new Polish Civil Code based to a certain extent on the European Union law -- possibly parts translated form another language. I have to do some research regarding this term, used in reference to compensation for material damage, just as an example. "Zadośćuczynienie za uszkodzenie smaochodu"? Does it sound right to you? I learned Polish legal language exclusively in the United States, so it may differ. Sometimes different terms are used by Polish lawyers here.


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## polskiprl

LilianaB said:


> I think you really need "achievements* in* math". "Achievements" is fine in this context. The quetion was really about finding a fixed structure in English that would correspond to particular structures in Polish.
> 
> As to the other part -- about " zadośćuczynienie" I have to check into it. It seems really unlikely, but if you are using it in Poland, that's fine. It is not used this way by any bilingual court glossaries in the New New York State, or New Jersey ( glossaries prepared by Polish linguists and lawyers) or any legal documents in Polish related to injuries or property damage,or compensation for moral damages, in the US. I have never heard any bilingual lawyer use this term, at all, maybe because of the religious connotations. Is it is most likely the new Polish Civil Code based to a certain extent on the European Union law -- possibly parts translated form another language. I have to do some research regarding this term, used in reference to compensation for material damage, just as an example. "Zadośćuczynienie za uszkodzenie smaochodu"? Does it sound right to you. I learned Polish legal language exclusively in the United States, so it may differ. Sometimes different terms are used by Polish lawyers here.



Yes, I know that it is hard to believe that *zadośćuczynienie* is a legal term, mainly because we in Poland commonly say *odszkodowanie*, and secondly because *zadośćuczynienie* sounds old-fashioned and outdated. However, the term *zadośćuczynienie* exists in the Polish Civil Code since its very beginning in 1965 and is being used in courts on daily basis. Generally you can demand *zadośćuczynienia* when you feel you had been wronged, treated badly, insulted in public etc. However, there are many restrictions, so in many cases you have no right to *zadośćuczynienia - *uszkodzenie samochodu (car damage) is one of them. 

There are two words in Polish - *odszkodowanie* i *zadośćuczynienie* - which mean that some money must be paid to a person, company or organization because these suffered in various ways.


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## majlo

dreamlike said:


> The sentences are fit to be used in formal writing rather than in everyday use, note the usage of "ubolewam" - it most certainly doesn't translate as "I feel sorry that" but rather "I resent the fact that".


Depending on the context the verb can just as well mean "I feel sorry that".


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## dreamlike

LilianaB said:


> They really seem fine, to me Dreamlike. I just think different constructions should be used to translate them into English. (not one for all).


Yes, but from reading the OP's request, it would seem that what he asked for was *one construction* corresponding to the Polish "kosztem czegoś", which is either "at the expense of" or "at the cost of", depending one how formal one wants to be, or "to the detriment of" -- which means a slightly different thing.
I could come up with three different Polish sentences in which one of these English phrases would be equally applicable, if I were to translate them -- but the same can't be said for the sentences in question. That's what I meant. 




polskiprl said:


> If you let me suggest a correction to translation, would you please take a look at the following sentences:
> I appreciate your maths achievements - doceniam twoje osiągnięcia z matematyki
> I appreciate your maths results - doceniam twoje wyniki z matematyki


I've written "maths results", making a small alteration to the original sentence (and, by extension, changing the meaning slightly) because that's what sounds better to me -- either is fine, though. 



polskiprl said:


> Does anybody know the proper English word for action (performed by the whole community) which brings back previous shape of a city after a disaster, tornado, earthquake or air ride?


Verbs such as "rectify" or "restore" are viable alternatives to the ones mentioned earlier, although if we were to use the latter, we'd have to change the sentence completely.


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## LilianaB

I think the word might be _clean-up_, if you mean clearing off the streets, and removing debris.


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## kknd

dreamlike said:


> Verbs such as "rectify" or "restore" are viable alternatives to the ones mentioned earlier, although if we were to use the latter, we'd have to change the sentence completely.


and how about "rebuild" and "reconstruct"—are those okay here?


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## LilianaB

Zależy od kontekstu. "The World Trade Center" tak, po wojnie, po sztormie najczęsciej "clean-up", chyba że domy buły zburzone.


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## prawnick

polskiprl said:


> Yes, I know that it is hard to believe that *zadośćuczynienie* is a legal term, mainly because we in Poland commonly say *odszkodowanie*, and secondly because *zadośćuczynienie* sounds old-fashioned and outdated. However, the term *zadośćuczynienie* exists in the Polish Civil Code since its very beginning in 1965 and is being used in courts on daily basis. Generally you can demand *zadośćuczynienia* when you feel you had been wronged, treated badly, insulted in public etc. However, there are many restrictions, so in many cases you have no right to *zadośćuczynienia - *uszkodzenie samochodu (car damage) is one of them.
> 
> There are two words in Polish - *odszkodowanie* i *zadośćuczynienie* - which mean that some money must be paid to a person, company or organization because these suffered in various ways.



Hello everyone!

I'm a student at the faculty of law, so I feel obliged to cast some light on the discussed issue. As it has been explained above, both terms ("odszkodowanie" and "zadośćuczynienie") exist in the Polish Civil Code. And both - generally - mean the same - i.e. that person/entity A has to pay some money to B because of harm that A did to B. The only difference between those two terms is the source of harm. If harm has its material dimension (I mean that it can be objectively measured), then the damages is called "odszkodowanie" and harm is respectively called "szkoda". For example, if your car is damaged, you can easily estimate the size of harm that has been done to you - it is the value of the car or its broken parts. In this case, harm you suffered is an equivalent of the amount of money you have to pay to repair the car. 

But when we speak about mental suffering or pain inflicted (which can't be objectively measured in money), in Polish we say  "krzywda" for harm and, respectively, "zadośćuczynienie" for the damages granted by a court for that krzywda suffered. Usually, we deal with krzywda when someone harms another person, which inflicts bodily harm or makes that person's health change for worse. So, it is possible that harmed person is entitled to both "odszkodowanie" and "zadośćuczynienie". For example, A - while driving a car - was hit by another driver B. The strike was very serious - it resulted in complete destruction of A's car. Moreover, A's legs had to be cut as they had been crushed in the accident. A will have to use a wheel-chair for the rest of his life. A court may then grant A "odszkodowanie" for the value of the destroyed car and (the most probably) "zadośćuczynienie" for A's pain suffered while recovering from the accident. B may be also forced to pay disability pension to A - but this is of no importance in case of the discussed issue.

I hope it is helpful


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## LilianaB

Well. _zadośćuczynienie_ is not used in most legal papers and contexts (even as used by Polish-speaking lawyers) outside of Poland. only _odszkodowanie_ and _kompensacja_. This might be just something strictly related to particular paragraphs of the Polish law, not Polish legal language, in a more general sense. what I mean is that if you translate legal papers about accidents in the US, in Germany, in Russian into Polish, you don't usually use this term which is more related to the accidents which happened in Poland and specific paragraphs of the Polish law.


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## prawnick

LilianaB said:


> Well. _zadośćuczynienie_ is not used in most legal papers and contexts (even as used by Polish-speaking lawyers) outside of Poland. only _odszkodowanie_ and _kompensacja_. This might be just something strictly related to particular paragraphs of the Polish law, not Polish legal language, in a more general sense. what I mean is that if you translate legal papers about accidents in the US, in Germany, in Russian into Polish, you don't usually use this term which is more related to the accidents which happened in Poland and specific paragraphs of the Polish law.



I agree that there is only slight difference between those two terms. However, each Polish lawyer dealing with civil law is aware of this difference, even if in colloquial language he/she uses term "odszkodowanie" for all money given to an injured person as a compensation, no matter what the source of harm is. One little remark more. There is such a word as "kompensacja" in Polish. However, I'd say that its usage in legal Polish is quite rare - general term "odszkodowanie" prevails. "Kompensacja" has gained in popularity lately but this is the result of more frequent contacts of Polish lawyers with their colleagues in other European countries and the fact that English (with its similar 'compensation') is a language that is commonly used in those contacts.


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## LilianaB

Well, there is -- as used in more international contexts, perhaps not in the Polish Code of Laws. This thread was however about something else, so let's not steal it.  

http://www.piu.org.pl/public/upload...Ubezpieczeniowe/numer3/WU3_09ludwichowska.pdf


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