# ten thousand dollars found



## Joca

A poor woman, living in a slum, working as a cleaner in a public building, having no husband to support her, and bringing up her daughter on her own, finds ten thousand dollars in a bathroom that she was supposed to clean in the morning. Someone had stuffed the banknotes into socks and hid them below a heap of scattered toilet paper. What does the woman do after the initial shock? She takes all the money to the police station. If she had kept the money, which was obviously a product of theft or any other fraud, she would have got hold of a sum that she would never make during all her lifetime of hard and dirty work, and she would have paid some of her pending debts and maybe made a better life for her daughter and herself. I don't know if she gave the money back out of fear or honesty, but perhaps it was a mixture of both. What is your feeling about this woman? Did she do the right thing? What would you do if you were in her shoes?


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## Cecilio

Joca said:


> she would have got hold of a sum that she would never make during all her lifetime of hard and dirty work, and she would have paid some of her pending debts and maybe made a better life for her daughter and herself.



$10,000 is not such a big deal, is it? I'm sure a cleaner in the US earns more than that in a year.


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## Vanda

Well, Cecílio, it depends on the perspective. I assume Joca is referring to a person who lives in Brazil, as a cleaner it might take this person 57 months to win this amount of money. So, yes, it makes all the difference in the world for such a person.


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## Joca

Vanda said:


> Well, Cecílio, it depends on the perspective. I assume Joca is referring to a person who lives in Brazil, as a cleaner it might take this person 57 months to win this amount of money. So, yes, it makes all the difference in the world for such a person.


 
That's right. I should add that the story is real, and I have now got the right figures. Actually, she found a little less than 7,000 dollars. She has two children to keep and she earns a little less than 200 dollars per month. That means that the sum she found is 35 times higher than her actual sallary.


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## Sallyb36

She did the right thing, and should have been rewarded for doing so!


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## Etcetera

Sallyb36 said:


> She did the right thing, and should have been rewarded for doing so!


Amen.


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## badgrammar

She did the right thing, it would have been wrong to take the money.  That said, if I heard she had taken the money, I would not condemn her or judge he too harshly.  It is an amazing show of strength of character and honesty.   And I quite hope she will be rewarded financially.

However...: Perhaps also she was afraid of getting involved with criminals - that someone would figure out she took it and come after her looking for the money, therefore putting her and her kids' lives in danger.  That would have been my second thought, right after stuffing the money into my bag and fantasizing that i was going to get away with it.  And it's probably the thought that would make me go to the police - that it is dangerous to take criminals' money would weigh on my mind more than the immorality of taking something that is not mine.

I've been watching tv and movies for long enough to have seen that scenario played out a million times   !


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## maxiogee

She did the right thing.
I'm not sure I would have the degree of honesty to the right thing myself. I think I would have been sorely tempted to keep it.

=======

What happens next?
If the money can not be traced back to a particular source - what happens it? Does she get it after a year and a day if it is unclaimed?


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## Etcetera

maxiogee said:


> She did the right thing.
> I'm not sure I would have the degree of honesty to the right thing myself. I think I would have been sorely tempted to keep it.


So do I.
That's partly why I admire this woman so much.


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## Sallyb36

maxiogee said:


> She did the right thing.
> I'm not sure I would have the degree of honesty to the right thing myself. I think I would have been sorely tempted to keep it.
> 
> =======
> 
> *What happens next?
> If the money can not be traced back to a particular source - what happens it? Does she get it after a year and a day if it is unclaimed*?



I think that she does get it if it isn't claimed but I don't know how long she has to wait.  I handed something in when I was a child and it wasn't claimed, so the police gave it to me, but I can't remember how long it was until I received it, and don't know if they still do things that way these days.


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## Joca

Sallyb36 said:


> I think that she does get it if it isn't claimed but I don't know how long she has to wait. I handed something in when I was a child and it wasn't claimed, so the police gave it to me, but I can't remember how long it was until I received it, and don't know if they still do things that way these days.


 
Honestly I hadn't thought along those lines... Maybe because I know that our policemen mostly aren't very reliable. Probably they would keep the money themselves..., if you see what I mean.


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## danielfranco

Now the problem will be whether or not the person(s) "misplacing" the money were criminals. If they were criminals, they could very well be petty criminals (or not very bright ones to dump the cash like that). But they could also very well be heavy-duty criminals. It doesn't take much to figure out what happened to the money, especially after it has been published by the media! So, hard-case criminals would probably find the woman and make her pay back. Even if she doesn't have the money.

I hope to God that won't happen, though.


I think I would have kept the money. It's just the thing a butthole like me would do, is all...


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## heidita

danielfranco said:


> I think I would have kept the money. It's just the thing a butthole like me would do, is all...


 

I seem to be the same _butthole_...yes, sire, two of a kind.


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## Sallyb36

I might consider keeping it, but would be too worried about spending it, what if there was a record of the numbers of the missing bank notes for example.  I am a big worrier, and the least I have to worry about the better, so I believe that I would hand it in because if I didn't it would plague my conscience.  Also, imagine being the person who had it stolen, or who lost it, then being reunited with it, how happy would they be?!


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## TRG

I think that this is what the vast majority of people would do. People are basically good and honest and sometimes they make mistakes. It is nice to see this occur in practice when cynicism abounds in the world. You shouldn't be so surprised when people do good things. It's in our natue.

Now, for the rest of the story. I only remembered this after I had written the above. This morning I have to go to my bank and report that someone stole and cashed one of my personal checks in the amount of $350 which I had sent to my future son-in-law as a gift. This was a bit of a shock as I have had little trouble with this sort of thing in the course of my life. However, I stand by what I said. People are basically good, but I have to acknowledge there are a few slackers out there.


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## Vagabond

I would have kept the money and provided my daughter with a more decent living (e.g. college education) than my job as a cleaner ever would.


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## Cecilio

Oh, sorry! I assumed this lady worked in the USA. The mistake comes from the fact that she found American dollars, so I thought it happened in America. I was mistaken, I'm sorry. I agree that this sum of money is much more valuable in a country like Brazil.


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## clipper

The golden rule here is, as in many situations of basic education, to put yourself in the place of the other person.

If I find a wallet, I think to myself that the owner is going to have a right problem getting replacement cards, licences etc, and they've lost their hard earned money. For this reason I would hand it in.

On the other hand, to find a large quantity, obviously dumped intentionally, I would think "do these people expect to see this money again ? Have they lost their hard earned years salary ?" Based on this rationale I think I would have kept it.

This said, I have lost wallets, telephones, money etc on many ocasions and can honestly say that no-one has ever returned me anything.... and what goes around comes around.


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## Athaulf

Joca said:


> A poor woman, living in a slum, working as a cleaner in a public building, having no husband to support her, and bringing up her daughter on her own, finds ten thousand dollars in a bathroom that she was supposed to clean in the morning. Someone had stuffed the banknotes into socks and hid them below a heap of scattered toilet paper. What does the woman do after the initial shock? She takes all the money to the police station. If she had kept the money, which was obviously a product of theft or any other fraud, she would have got hold of a sum that she would never make during all her lifetime of hard and dirty work, and she would have paid some of her pending debts and maybe made a better life for her daughter and herself. I don't know if she gave the money back out of fear or honesty, but perhaps it was a mixture of both. What is your feeling about this woman? Did she do the right thing? What would you do if you were in her shoes?



I don't really understand why you're writing under the assumption that a pile of cash must necessarily be connected to a theft or fraud. While it was certainly foolish to hide money in such a place, I can easily imagine a number of legitimate purposes for which one might want to use a pile of cash rather than any other method of payment. Even if some of these purposes might be technically illegal, they could still be entirely fair and honest -- I don't know specifically about Brazil, but in many places and times, including some in which I've lived, exchanging bags of foreign cash, although theoretically illegal, has been the only practical way to do many important things in life. Anyone who has ever lived under hyperinflation or in a country with a highly volatile banking sector will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Therefore, without knowing the specific situation in this case, we must also leave open the possibility that this action has condemned someone's honestly earned and used (although foolishly stored) cash to confiscation -- an altogether foolish and destructive act. I've personally experienced times and places where it would be exactly like that.


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## cristina friz

Sorry, what is butthole ? it is not in the WR dictionary


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## badgrammar

You certainly have a good point, authaulf.  I've been fortunate enough to not know personally those circumstances (thus far), but I can imagine several scenarios where that cash could indeed have been something other than money related to a crime....

But what else could she have done?  Either turn in the money, or take it and...  what?  Other than spend it, which I could understand, could she have gone about trying to get it back to its rightful owners?  That would be tricky, to say the least.

But you are quite right to point out that 7000$ cash is not necessarily ill-begotten cash.


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## badgrammar

cristina friz said:


> Sorry, what is butthole ? it is not in the WR dictionary



It's a (somewhat vulgar) word for an anus.


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## danielfranco

RE: Butthole.
Sorry, it's an euphemism for "asshole" (click!). Neither one is a very nice term in polite company.


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## Alxmrphi

Maybe I would be being selfish but I would keep the money.


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## Joca

Athaulf said:


> I don't really understand why you're writing under the assumption that a pile of cash must necessarily be connected to a theft or fraud. While it was certainly foolish to hide money in such a place, I can easily imagine a number of legitimate purposes for which one might want to use a pile of cash rather than any other method of payment. Even if some of these purposes might be technically illegal, they could still be entirely fair and honest -- I don't know specifically about Brazil, but in many places and times, including some in which I've lived, exchanging bags of foreign cash, although theoretically illegal, has been the only practical way to do many important things in life. Anyone who has ever lived under hyperinflation or in a country with a highly volatile banking sector will know exactly what I'm talking about.
> 
> Therefore, without knowing the specific situation in this case, we must also leave open the possibility that this action has condemned someone's honestly earned and used (although foolishly stored) cash to confiscation -- an altogether foolish and destructive act. I've personally experienced times and places where it would be exactly like that.


 
Sorry, I've used the word "obviously" maybe too soon, maybe inappropriately. I haven't had the chance to read more on the subject, since this happened in another State, quite far away from where I am currently living. I should have used a more cautious word, such as possibly or probably instead of obviously. I understand the points you are raising, but the fact that we aren't living under hyperinflation now, that it was dollars and not our national money and hidden in a most unusual place (into socks in the bathroom) doesn't seem to lend this case the aureole of legality and honesty. I'd like to know what the Police has found about the money, if ever they bothered to investigate.

JC


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## geve

This rings a bell... I read a similar story back in 2002 and kept the press clipping, here's my translation: _Looking for food, a homeless German found 12.000 euros in the trash can of a bus shelter in Siegen. The honest man took the money to the police station along with the ID and chequebook that were with it. He will get a reward_.

In this case there was a way to identify the owner of the money. But my interpretation in both cases is that they handed the money to the police because it was too much money for them to possess. The amount wasn't real in their environment, it was trouble, it did not fit, so they got rid of it. They didn't just leave it there because they know the price of money and that someone who's lost something valuable is always happy to find it back. Or maybe, if they weren't to keep it for themselves, why would someone else do? 
If they had found 50€ maybe they would have kept it... Who knows?

I don't know what I would do if I found 10.000€. I know I found banknotes twice in the street, and I didn't hand it to the police.  But then it was just 100 francs and 20€.  And who would go to the police to claim a missing 20€ note?


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## badgrammar

I love it when these discussions give rise to many different ways of looking at a situation.  I congratulate us all for simply enjoying one anothers' perspectives, and finding a new light in each new post.  Thanks geve and joca, and all others, for more excellent contributions.  Differing perspectives don't have to mean conflict, sometimes it's just a broadening of our vision of a situaion;


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## geve

badgrammar said:


> I love it when these discussions give rise to many different ways of looking at a situation. I congratulate us all for simply enjoying one anothers' perspectives, and finding a new light in each new post. Thanks geve and joca, and all others, for more excellent contributions. Differing perspectives don't have to mean conflict, sometimes it's just a broadening of our vision of a situaion;


Yes! This is the beauty of the CD forum. Not every CD thread needs to be controversial! 

Nota: I have received several claims for the 20€ note via PM. I am NOT giving it back!


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## vachecow

geve said:


> But my interpretation in both cases is that they handed the money to the police because it was too much money for them to possess. The amount wasn't real in their environment, it was trouble, it did not fit, so they got rid of it.
> I don't know what I would do if I found 10.000€



I agree with Geve.  I don't know how many of you are familiar with The Pearl by John Steinbeck, but it poses the same question. A poor man finds a pearl that is so huge it could provide for his family for the rest of their lives.  However, it causes so much trouble he must discard of it.  

If I found that much in cash, I would like to think I would turn it in, but I'm not sure.


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## Etcetera

geve said:


> I don't know what I would do if I found 10.000€. I know I found banknotes twice in the street, and I didn't hand it to the police.  But then it was just 100 francs and 20€.  And who would go to the police to claim a missing 20€ note?


Not me, certainly. I, too, happened to find banknotes in the street, and it wasn't big money. Of course, I didn't go to the police, and, frankly speaking, even if I did, the police wouldn't be delighted, I suppose.


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