# flic / poulet



## DrD

Hello all,

I am just curious to know, as I am currently translating a detective novel where both terms are used, is there any difference between 'flic' and 'poulet'? Is one more old-fashioned or more pejorative for example? Or are there any regional differences, such as one being used more in some areas of France and the other elsewhere?


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## Simaneon

I think "poulet" is a bit more slangish and familiar than "flic", but don't know if there is a major difference between them apart from this. I would tend to say no though.

Edit: 

Actually when I think about it, maybe "poulet" is more pejorative as it is comparing a policeman to an animal.


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## mehoul

French cops may call themselves "flics", but not "poulets".


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## snarkhunter

Hello,

Basically, I would tend to believe "poulet" has become a bit old-fashioned, and "flic" has taken over, most of the time (along with "keuf", which is indeed the _verlan_ spelling for "flic").

Maybe "poulet" has also become more of a literary thing now, which incidentally tells it has become something standard: By the way, _poulet, poulaga, poulaille_ may be considered synonyms and all are derived from 'chicken'.

The Police also used to be called "La maison Poulaga" in French 'classical slang'! (cf novels by San-Antonio, Albert Simonin, etc)


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## DrD

Now that's interesting, because it is actually a cop who says 'poulet' the first time this crops up in the novel. However, this particular cop does seem to use a lot of slang and he's not too bright and even a bit inappropriate sometimes, so maybe Simaneon's suggestion that poulet is a bit more slangy is right and perhaps, too, this is one of those times when he's being a bit inappropriate!

Thanks Snarkhunter - I had a feeling it might be a bit more old-fashioned (I have noticed a couple of other things that this cop says that are a bit dated). And thanks for 'La maison Poulaga', I hadn't heard that before!


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## baphen

Hello DrD,
_
Flics _and _poulets _both refer to the police (or to police officers, according to context) but they are different in that _flics _is not really pejorative but it is slang.
_Poulets _sounds funnier, but it is rude and pejorative: of course, it is a comparison to an animal (a bird which cannot even fly properly and walks around in a ridiculous way!). By the way, you can certainly draw a parallel with the word _pigs_ in English, also a slang nickname for cops.

As a conclusion, a police officer would never say either but would feel less offended upon being called a _flic _(or_ keuf_) than being called a _poulet_.

I hope I have enlightened you,


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## DrD

Thanks baphen, although 'flic' is used a lot in this book by both police officers and other characters and, in fact, I have seen/heard 'flic' being used by police officers in other detective novels and TV police dramas. I find it interesting that you think they wouldn't use this word - maybe it is a mistake on the part of the writers to have them say it... There is only one officer, so far, who has used the word 'poulet' and, as I said, he is a bit inappropriate at times and uses quite a lot of slang, so I think maybe that's deliberate.

As for 'pig', that's a term that's definitely always offensive and always intended to be so in English. I think that, in some contexts, either 'flic' or 'poulet' could be translated as 'pig', where the word is clearly being used contemptuously in French, but I've never really thought of either of these words as being a direct equivalent.


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## Micia93

_Thanks baphen, although 'flic' is used a lot in this book by both police officers and other characters and, in fact, I have seen/heard 'flic' being used by police officers in other detective novels and TV police dramas. I find it interesting that you think they wouldn't use this word - maybe it is a mistake on the part of the writers to have them say it... 
_
No no, you're right! police officers use "flics" too, as you saw and heard it


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## baphen

Thank you for these precisions, DrD. 

It is interesting because I can assure you that _poulet _is quite offensive but as most slang words in French, it depends on the speaker's tone and on the context. _Poulets _would not sound as bad in a conversation between friends or family members. I believe a police officer would use that word only when undercover to sound credible. _Flics_ would be used between friends and family members as a shorter way of saying _la police_ or _les policiers_, but would not sound as an insult on its own. When used in front of the police, it is rather inappropriate. However I can picture a police officer say _flics_ more easily.

As a conclusion, we can say that _poulets_ is an insult (it is used to make fun of the police) while _flics _is just a bad (but less shocking) word to refer to the police or police officers.

I hope this helps,


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## Kecha

"Poulet" has a traceable and funny origin: during the Paris Commune, police headquarters were burnt down. The new headquarters were build on top of a former poultry market. That's how policemen were soon known as "chickens".

"Flic" is more recent (20th century) and of uncertain origins (maybe from german _flick_).

FYI _Beverly Hills Cop_ is _Le Flic de Beverly Hills_


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## Glockenblume

Kecha said:


> (maybe from german _flick_).


I don't know German _flick_. Do you mean the verb_ flicken_ (which means repairing clothes etc.)? 

By the way, when I came to France, I learnt the word_ flic_ very soon, whereas it took me years to hear _poulet_ in the sense of policier for the first time.


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## Micia93

_By the way, when I came to France, I learnt the word flic very soon, whereas it took me years to hear poulet in eth sense of policier for the first time. 
_
Because "poulet" has become rather outdated now. You can hear it in some novels or films dating back to the 50s


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## Kecha

Well German isn't my specialty, I read it meant  "jeune homme, garçon" 
Another guess was from "flinke", frapper, or Fliege, ''mouche'' (apparently they were also known as mouche in French for a while).

"Poulet" is old-fashioned, "flic" is still very much in use, and as said by others, even policemen themselves will use it so it is not too derogatory (although you might not want to call a flic a flic to his face to avoid trouble).

I guess these days derogatory terms for policemen are along the lines of keufs and so on.
See: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_française#Vocabulaire


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## DrD

Thank you all. There's lots of very interesting and useful information here


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## janpol

Il est exact que les policiers eux-mêmes ont adopté le mot "flic" mais pas le mot « poulet ». En fait, les mots utilisés correspondent à des époques. Le terme «hanvélo", utilisé par Queneau dans « Zazie dans le métro », date vraiment beaucoup maintenant. (mais peut-être s'agissait-il plutôt de gendarmes...) Les mots « cogne » et « condé" semblent avoir fait leur temps, eux aussi.


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## LART01

Hello
D'accord avec tout ce qui a été dit. A noter qu'on ne dira pas_ flics ou poulets _pour des_ gendarmes _mais plutôt_ pandores_


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## Micia93

"pandores" est un peu vieillot, non? en tous cas, je ne l'ai jamais entendu autour de moi, juste lu ou vu au cinéma dans des livres ou des films des années trente


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## LART01

Micia93 said:


> "pandores" est un peu vieillot, non? en tous cas, je ne l'ai jamais entendu autour de moi, juste lu ou vu au cinéma dans des livres ou des films des années trente



Bonjour Micia
Les années 30, tu y vas un peu fort!

_avant de héler une voiture de gendarmes. Les *pandores* marseillais se font une maligne joie de me conduire à l'aéroport en prenant tous les sens interdits._ — (Marie de Gandt, _Sous la plume. Petite exploration du pouvoir politique_, Paris, Éditions Robert Laffont, *2013,* p. 155)


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## Micia93

Haha! je ne suis pas assez cultivée! 
Ceci dit, je ne trouve pas que cela fasse partie du langage courant


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## LART01

Micia93 said:


> Haha! je ne suis pas assez cultivée!
> Ceci dit, je ne trouve pas que cela fasse partie du langage courant



Si tu recherches l_es pandores t_u trouveras de nombreux articles de journaux qui utilisent ce terme.
Les jeunes des cités marseillaises ( pas tous, évidemment) utilisent ce terme. Je l'ai entendu. Ils diront plus volontiers les keufs bien sur...
J'ajouterais que jamais un gendarme ne s'appelera lui-même un_ pandore _ou un_ flic_. Trop de rigueur militaire et de haute estime de sa mission et de respect pour l'uniforme)


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## Chimel

LART01 said:


> Si tu recherches l_es pandores t_u trouveras de nombreux articles de journaux qui utilisent ce terme.
> Les jeunes des cités marseillaises ( pas tous, évidemment) utilisent ce terme. Je l'ai entendu. Ils diront plus volontiers les keufs bien sur...


Oui, mais il faut voir si ce n'est pas un effet de style (volonté de dérision liée à l'emploi d'un terme désuet) ou l'un de ces synonymes seulement utilisés par des journalistes pour éviter des répétitions (genre "le locataire de l'Elysée" pour le président de la République). J'ai la même impression que Micia.

Pour les jeunes des cités marseillaises, je ne sais pas, mais par ici je n'entends vraiment aucun jeune (ou même moins jeune) dire _pandore d_ans la vie de tous les jours. Ne serait-ce pas un phénomène comparable à celui de _bouffon_? Un terme vieillot qui est revitalisé dans le langage de (certains) jeunes. Ce qui lui donne certes une vie nouvelle, mais qui confirme dans le même temps son caractère vieillot... (il redeviendra désuet dès que l'effet de mode sera passé).


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## Kecha

"Le terme pandore, pour les gendarmes est un peu passé de mode" d'après wikipédia.
De plus, je crois sincèrement que les jeunes des cités se fichent un peu de différencier les policiers des gendarmes !

Au passage, je tombe sur ce lien intéressant sur l'argot et le jargon que les policiers utilisent *entre eux* :
http://forcesdepolice.forumactif.com/t14-ptit-lexique-du-jargon-de-flic


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## Kajeetah

Super le lien! Merci!


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## LART01

Kecha said:


> "Le terme pandore, pour les gendarmes est un peu passé de mode" d'après wikipédia.
> De plus, je crois sincèrement que les jeunes des cités se fichent un peu de différencier les policiers des gendarmes !
> 
> Au passage, je tombe sur ce lien intéressant sur l'argot et le jargon que les policiers utilisent *entre eux* :
> http://forcesdepolice.forumactif.com/t14-ptit-lexique-du-jargon-de-flic




C'est pour ça que je différencie ce que je pense de ce que j'entends sur "le terrain"...


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## DrD

Goodness, I've sparked off a real debate here. It was only a moment of idle curiosity! Again thanks for all your help and suggestions, and thanks for that link Kecha, it might come in handy at some point in this translation!

We have quite a few slang terms in English for police officers, but 'cop' tends to be the fairly ubiquitous one, much like 'flic' in French. There is the full version 'copper', which is heard less now (and, from the point of view of being perhaps a little more old-fashioned, could work as a translation for 'poulet', if someone wanted an alternative - it doesn't have any particularly insulting connotations though - not these days anyway, although it can be said insultingly - it's all in the tone of voice). OED suggests the etymology for 'copper' may come from the slang verb 'to cop', meaning to arrest, so obviously 'a copper' is one who 'cops' people, so it's interesting that the noun has become 'cop' (and you are much more likely to hear 'nick', 'nab', 'pinch' for arrest these days).

There's also 'rozzer', which I like, but it's regional and a bit old-fashioned (although maybe not in some areas of the UK and I think it might be undergoing something of a resurgence - it seems to me that I've heard it on TV a few times lately).

'Bobby,' of course, but that seems to almost be an affectionate term these days, and 'peeler' which I think is just about obsolete now.

'Pig' as I've mentioned further upthread is always an insult. To my mind it's quite vulgar - a bit like referring to women as 'bitches' or 'hos'. There is also the simple expedient of mispronouncing the word 'constable' (replace the 'o' and the 'a' with 'u' and you should get the idea )


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## Micia93

_ the word 'constable' (replace the 'o' and the 'a' with 'u' and you should get the idea ) 
_
it gives "cunstuble" which appears in no dictionary, as far as I know ...


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## DrD

Hmm, yes, maybe you won't get the idea, it's a peculiarity of English pronunciation... Well, I shall just have to give in and be very vulgar. Anybody who is easily offended, please DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE. The idea is to make it sound like 'cunt stubble' (if you say the two words together the 't' at the end of the first word disappears).


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## Micia93

so silly of me!


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## DrD

Perhaps silly of me to think I could get away without spelling that one out to non-native speakers! I'm not normally squeamish about swearing, but, well, that's a very bad word indeed and this is a public forum...


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## DrD

And perhaps worth saying that although some people might think this is very clever, because, after all, you didn't say anything wrong, you only said constable, right? I wouldn't advise ever actually saying this to a British police officer. Admittedly police officers don't have a reputation for intellectual prowess, but I don't think any of them are that stupid


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## cecillian

Hi, about flic here I've heard Bic flics. Can flic has the meaning of a lighter? Firstly I thought it's flicker maybe,but heard that some say flame that with your bic flic. I mean can flic mean a lighter too? 
Here is a picture I found of a Bic flic or Bic lighter.
Ps. I know about the meaning of flick my Bic.
Thanks in advance.


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## Michelvar

cecillian said:


> Hi, about flic here I've heard Bic flics. Can flic has the meaning of a lighter? Firstly I thought it's flicker maybe,but heard that some say flame that with your bic flic. I mean can flic mean a lighter too?
> Here is a picture I found of a Bic flic or Bic lighter.
> Ps. I know about the meaning of flick my Bic.
> Thanks in advance.


Hi, 

if you have heard "flame that with your bic flic", what makes you think that "flic" was a French word?


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## cecillian

well I searched in dictionary, I Googled it the it meant cop and was a French word but also used in English. Here I attach the picture of what I think it may refer.

This is the picture:
http://images.addoway.com.s3.amazonaws.com/items/27275/2506717/27275_3_ae9996.jpg


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Another 'disrespectful' way of saying it which might get you in trouble - a French law dating back to Napoleon makes it a misdemeanor to insult a cop - is 'guignol' (although 'la Cour de Cassation' ruled some time ago that calling them 'flics', 'flicards', or 'guignols' isn't an offense). It's like addressing a contrôleur in the Métro as "M. le Con (pause) trôleur". Reverse respect (sarcasm) [careful!]: "M. l'Agent des forces de l'ordre publique", "M. le Gardien de la paix". And, as also mentioned above, 'policier' and 'gendarme' aren't quite the same in France.


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## cecillian

thank you but imagine this sentence "the waiters set the crepes aflame with Bic Flics pulled brusquely from their shirt pockets. Here it can't meant any thing but a lighter I think. yes?


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## Kelly B

Cecillian, yes, it means a lighter in English in your context, though I think it's used incorrectly - the company used the brand name Clic rather than flic, and the slogan used the spelling flick with a k. Given that plus Michelvar's response, I suspect you shouldn't use the word _flic _in a translation of your own sentence to French.


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## Michelvar

In your picture it could be a pun, between "flick" and "flic" (= a fine girl). We can also find exemple of "flic" used instead of "flick", here for instance : 


> she offers me a fag and I take one and I flic my Bic for her and then for me.


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## Uncle Bob

One you forgot, DrD, is "bluebottle" usually shortened to "bottle", which is fairly dated (1950's,1960's?). 

(Explanation for those unfamiliar: they wear blue and buzz around where they are not wanted, just like houseflies/ bluebottles).


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## cecillian

Well thank you. but I think it's the lighter it self or means with a flick of the lighter. This a a sentence from a book. And as you say Kelly B the brand I think must be BIC. SO the waiter took his lighter which was a Bic brand. I think I got it now? 
And do you mean by flick that whirling metal which we roll when we light the lighter, and then it's a pun whit flic MchelVar?


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## Michelvar

It could be, yes, as on the picture you proposed as an example, there is miss liberty, with is a fine lady, and fine ladies are called "flics" according to Urban Dictionnary.

But English being a very plastic language, it's well possible that "to flick" has become "to flic", and that lighters may be called "flics" because of that.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Returning to DrD's OP 'flic/poulet': I believe Brits also say 'rozzers' and 'the filth'. In parts of Scotland it's pronounced (and spelled, in the 'Inspector Rebus' novels) 'pollis'. But yes, Doctor, I think 'flic(ard)s', like US 'pigs' (not used by those to whom the term refers), is the most commonly used term today, and 'poulet' is as outdated as (UK) 'bobby' and 'peeler'. PS, A while back, the humorous term 'oinkers' was also sometimes used in "the counter-culture". - @Michelvar, I, for one, have never heard "flic" usd to refer to "a fine lady", nor "a flic(k)" for a disposable lighter. And I don't think the 'k' would have been dropped from the verb "to flick" in any of its meanings. [Don't forget, a "couteau à cran d'arrrêt)" is called a "flick knife" as well as a "switchblade".]


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## DrD

Uncle Bob said:


> One you forgot, DrD, is "bluebottle" usually shortened to "bottle", which is fairly dated (1950's,1960's?).
> 
> (Explanation for those unfamiliar: they wear blue and buzz around where they are not wanted, just like houseflies/ bluebottles).


Oh, yes, Uncle Bob, I had indeed forgotten that one. I'd say 50's/60's sounds about right - a little early for me, but I've certainly heard/read the term before.


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## cecillian

Michelvar said:


> It could be, yes, as on the picture you proposed as an example, there is miss liberty, with is a fine lady, and fine ladies are called "flics" according to Urban Dictionnary.
> 
> But English being a very plastic language, it's well possible that "to flick" has become "to flic", and that lighters may be called "flics" because of that.



Thanks Michelvar, one more question. So if I want to say it in simple English which word do you suggest to use as flic:
1.The waiters set the crepes aflame with their Bic lighters.
2.The waiters set the crepes aflame with the flick of their Bic lighter
But here we come to another question Michelvar, why Flic here is written  in upper case,let it be flick or flick. Bic is the brand so it must be  in upper case but I have no idea about flic being witten in this way. So  I think it can give us a clue. But what clue I do not know.


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