# مَظْهَرَ



## seitt

Greetings,

Interesting how one question sometimes leads to another! Please see:
http://www.duas.org/nadali.htm

I don't understand مَظْهَرَ (first line, third word) at all – is it pronounced maẓhar? Why does the first letter have a shadda? Is that even possible in Arabic grammar? Please explain the exact meaning and function of the word.

All the best,

Simon


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## rayloom

It should be مُظْهِر muẓhir
مظهر العجائب
The one who makes extraordinary things appear (manifest).
The shadda in the beginning is the result of of idgham ادغام (assimilation) of the tanwin with the mim of muẓhir.
You typically only see this in Quranic spelling (for tajwid purposes).
But I guess this means that's how you should recite the duaa.


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## seitt

Many thanks - what is tajwid and what root is it from, please?

Best wishes,

Simon


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## rayloom

Your welcome 

From wikipedia:
It is a set of rules which govern how the Qur'an should be read. It is derived from the triliteral root j-w-d, meaning to make well, make better, or improve.


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## AndyRoo

rayloom said:


> It should be مُظْهِر muẓhir
> مظهر العجائب


 
I think maẓhar is the correct pronunciation, because it is written so in both the texts. 

maẓhar means "the bearer of a phenomenon", i.e. Ali is the bearer of wonders.


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## seitt

Thank you so much.

What would the actual pronunciation work out as?

naadi <aliyyam muẓhira l-l<ajaa'ib_, perhaps?__

(Sorry, I've forgotten how you represent hamza and <ayn in Latin letters – I think you use numbers on this site.)_


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## rayloom

AndyRoo said:


> I think maẓhar is the correct pronunciation, because it is written so in both the texts.
> 
> maẓhar means "the bearer of a phenomenon", i.e. Ali is the bearer of wonders.



hmm that means that the English traslation with the text is wrong: 
Call on Ali, (He) is able to bring about the extraordinary


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## rayloom

seitt said:


> Thank you so much.
> 
> What would the actual pronunciation work out as?
> 
> naadi <aliyyam muẓhira l-l<ajaa'ib_, perhaps?__
> 
> (Sorry, I've forgotten how you represent hamza and <ayn in Latin letters – I think you use numbers on this site.)_


_

naadi 3aliyyam maẓhara l-3ajaa2ib
or
naadi 3aliyyam muẓhira l-3ajaa2ib_


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## rayloom

Unfortunately I can't listen to the duaa itself since it's a .ram file.
Also the text shows other tashkil mistakes.

Can someone confirm what it says in the duaa.


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## AndyRoo

rayloom said:


> Can someone confirm what it says in the duaa.


 
Hi, yes I listened to it and it's definitely maẓhar .


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## rayloom

AndyRoo said:


> Hi, yes I listened to it and it's definitely maẓhar .



Thanks for confirming 
Then yes your translation fits well.
The English translation in http://www.duas.org/nadali.htm is wrong, and probably was based on muzhir.


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## seitt

I'm definitely no expert, but I'd like to clarify ‘bearer’. Do we mean by this that Ali was the passive vehicle of miracles? Wehr also has ‘object in which something manifests itself’.

The point I'm trying to make is that he can't be the author of miracles as that would make him greater than Muḥammad, wouldn't it? And, since for the Shia, <Ali is Muḥammad’s waliyy, wouldn't that be odd? A waliyy presumably can't be greater than his ṣāhib (if that's the word).


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## seitt

PS For the above reasons I think we can rule out مُظْهِر .


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## AndyRoo

seitt said:


> Do we mean by this that Ali was the passive vehicle of miracles?


 
Yes, that's how I read it - the wonders appear through him and weren't created by him.


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## إسكندراني

'Call Ali' has problems beyond that which you've mentioned!


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## Outlandish

Many Shi'ite imams and raduuds (something like chanters) have recited this duaa and chanted this chant. Many of them say مُظهر with a dhummah on the meem. Yet many utter it with a fatHa. It seems that Iranians pronounce it with a fatHa (don't know why is that) and Iraqis pronounce it with a dhummah. Among those who have recited the duaa myriads of times is Mulla Basem Al-Karbala'i who is a famous raduud. A mulla on a website ruled that is with a dhummah not a fatHa. 



It remains strange in construct and meaning to pronounce it with a fatHa. A person can be a مُظهراً للعجائب but not a مَظهراً للعجائب, quite odd. We generally do not say that أحمد مَظهر الثراء، سمير مَظهر الغباء، جلال مَظهر الخدع , etc, while we can use مُظهر  in these examples. 





> The point I'm trying to make is that he can't be the author of miracles as that would make him greater than Muḥammad, wouldn't it? And, since for the Shia, <Ali is Muḥammad’s waliyy, wouldn't that be odd? A waliyy presumably can't be greater than his ṣāhib (if that's the word).​


There are some Shi'ites traditions which either implicitly and explicitly raise Ali and the Imams above the level of the prophet. Rest of the duaa:
*يا أبا الغيث اغثني يا أباالحسنين ادركني يا أبا سيف الله ادركني *
*يا باب الله ادركني ياحجه الله ادركني بحق لطفك الخفي*. 

This is a deep issue related to creed "aqidah", so let's not talk about it here. The important point is that many Shi'ites attribute إظهار العجائب    to Ali, ask him to save and aid them, many mullas and knowledgable persons, especially in Iraq, acknowledge and freely repeat this invocation نادِ عليّا مُظهر  العجائب تجده عونا لك في النوائب with a dhummah. ​


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## sara-lingo

My arabic knowledge is pretty basic, but I will only say that having heard this dua in sunni gatherings I can confirm without any doubt that I have heard it and seen it written as moth-hir (with a Damma on the meem letter).


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## Timmy123

Outlandish said:


> It remains strange in construct and meaning to pronounce it with a fatHa. A person can be a مُظهراً للعجائب but not a مَظهراً للعجائب, quite odd. We generally do not say that أحمد مَظهر الثراء، سمير مَظهر الغباء، جلال مَظهر الخدع , etc, while we can use مُظهر in these examples.




Why is it wierd to have  مَظهراً للعجائب?

Is this merely from a  grammatical point of view or do you mean that it doesn't make sense for a person to be  مَظهراً للعجائب?
 
Does this relate only to human beings? In what instances could we use مَظهر ?​


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## cherine

sara-lingo said:


> My arabic knowledge is pretty basic, but I will only say that having heard this dua in sunni gatherings I can confirm without any doubt that I have heard it and seen it written as moth-hir (with a Damma on the meem letter).


Sara,
The question is about Arabic, not about creed, so it doesn't make a difference what group or division of Muslims used/use this word, but their mother tongue.


Timmy123 said:


> Why is it wierd to have  مَظهراً للعجائب?
> 
> Is this merely from a  grammatical point of view or do you mean that it doesn't make sense for a person to be  مَظهراً للعجائب?
> 
> Does this relate only to human beings? In what instances could we use مَظهر ?​


Maybe because the word "maZhar" is usually translated and understood as "aspect" or "appearance". From Outlandish's post, I understood she was speaking from a purely linguistic point:


Outlandish said:


> It remains strange in construct and meaning to pronounce it with a fatHa. A person can be a مُظهراً للعجائب but not a مَظهراً للعجائب, quite odd. We generally do not say that أحمد مَظهر الثراء، سمير مَظهر الغباء، جلال مَظهر الخدع , etc, while we can use مُظهر  in these examples.



But I could understand maZhar as: the person in which something appears. In other words: an اسم مكان لفعل ظهر. Even though I agree it's not a common structure.


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## Timmy123

cherine said:


> Maybe because the word "maZhar" is usually translated and understood as "aspect" or "appearance". From Outlandish's post, I understood she was speaking from a purely linguistic point:


 
Absolutely! What I was trying to get at (unsuccessfully) was whether it was just odd because a person wouldn't normally be a maZhar, or if there was another reason, e.g. perhaps a grammatical issue that I wasn't aware of.


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## cherine

I think it's odd because it's not usual to say that someone is a مظهر of something. But grammatically and morphologically, the word is fine.


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## Outlandish

Oh boyــــlong post gone!

Well, to reiterate what Cherine has explained, maZhar, in Lisan Al-Arab, means ascent, elevator, something which takes you above or onboard something else, فأنت تعتلي ظهر ذلك الشيء أو ترتقى إليه ممتطياً ذلك المَظهر 


> ومنه قوله: وإِنا لَنَرْجُو فَوْقَ ذلك مًظْهَرا يعني مَصْعَداً. (لسان العرب)



In today's use, maZhar means "appearance, looks, exterior, aspect". We generally use this word to say things like:
​ يجب أن تظهر بمظهر ٍ لائق​ ليس بالمظهر وحده نحكم على الإنسان​ زيادة دخل الفرد من مظاهر التقدم الإقتصادي​ جاء بلسان معسول ومظهر خادع


​ It is not a common use to say that someone is the _maZhar_ (n) (manifestation, vehicle) of something, while it is common to say that he is the _muZhir _(adj) of that thing (the one who manifests, displays, shows). Likewise, you cannot say in English that x is the _bearing _of good news but rather the _bearer _of good news.
​ But it is not completely wrong to describe someone using a _maSdar meemy_. As to this example, I never heard maZhar used like that before this recitation . Other more common examples for descriptions using the maSdar meemy:
​ هذا الفتى منشأ المشاكل​ العالم فلان منبع العلم​
I can't think of more examples because, as Cherine said, it is _generally _rare and odd, although grammatically sound.
​


> From Outlandish's post, I understood _she _was speaking from a purely linguistic point:


Hehe, Cherine you don't know!


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## cherine

Outlandish said:


> Oh boyــــlong post gone!


Sorry about that  Usually, when I write long posts -and even short ones too, sometimes- I copy the post before posting it. This way, if it gets lost, I have the chance to just paste the text in a new post instead of re-typing what I wrote before.


> maZhar, in Lisan Al-Arab, means ascent, elevator, something which takes you above or onboard something else, فأنت تعتلي ظهر ذلك الشيء أو ترتقى إليه ممتطياً ذلك المَظهر


Interesting! I didn't know that. Thanks, Outlandish.


> Other more common examples for descriptions using the maSdar meemy:
> 
> 
> 
> هذا الفتى منشأ المشاكل​
> 
> 
> العالم فلان منبع العلم​


Good examples  


> Hehe, Cherine you don't know!


uh... don't know what to say  But if I got something wrong, please feel free to send me a PM.


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## إسكندراني

Use Lazarus to save your posts.


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## sara-lingo

إسكندراني said:


> Use Lazarus to save your posts.


 
Is this another version?


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## إسكندراني

sara-lingo said:


> Is this another version?


This is an add-on.
Google it


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