# 情けないったらありゃしない



## lammn

Hello,

I have problem in understanding the red portion of the following sentence:



> あんな人間が私の親だなんて、情けないったらありゃしない。


 
Could someone please parse the red portion and explain the meaning to me?

よろしくお願いします。


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## almostfreebird

lammn said:


> あんな人間が私の親だなんて、情けないったらありゃしない。




I think that the original form of the sentence is:

情けないことといえば、(これほど情けないことは他に）ありはしない。

情けないことといえば--->情けないことと言ったら--->情けないったら

ありはしない--->ありゃしない

"これほど情けないことは他に" is omitted.

"ありはしない"　means ありえない, 絶対にない.



If I were to translate it into English literally, it's going to be:

When it comes to unfortunate things, there's no other such unfortunate thing like this(the scum being my parent).


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## lammn

Thank for your quick response! 
If you don't mind, I still have further questions.



almostfreebird said:


> I think that the original form of the sentence is:
> 
> 情けないことといえば、...


 
I have just come across another website and find that ったら means と言ったら, which is similar to といえば, as you have suggested.

That website said that ったら often has a blaming tone. Is that true?

Also, under what cases is the small っ necessary?
That site says the small っ is not necessary if たら is *not *preceded by a 拨音. But what is 拨音? 



almostfreebird said:


> "ありはしない"　means ありえない, 絶対にない.


 
As for ありゃしない, I _thought_ it is slurred from あれはしない, but that doesn't make sense.
I think your interpretation makes sense. 

But could you tell me why ありはしない means ありえない?
Is this あり the 連用形 of ある？
If so, why it is not ありはない but ありはしない?

I hope my questions does not sound ridiculous.


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## almostfreebird

lammn said:


> That website said that ったら often has a blaming tone. Is that true?



Yes, it's true. In that case ったら means ときたら, and the subject is a living thing. They are interchangeable.
example:
タケシったらいつも遅れてくるんだから＝タケシときたらいつも遅れてくるんだから
おふくろったら....
おやじったら.....

ったら just sounds sloppy.



lammn said:


> Also, under what cases is the small っ necessary?
> That site says the small っ is not necessary if たら is not preceded by a 拗音. But what is 拗音?


I don't know about that.




lammn said:


> As for ありゃしない, I thought it is slurred from あれはしない, but that doesn't make sense.
> I think your interpretation makes sense.
> But could you tell me why ありはしない means ありえない?
> Is this あり the 連用形 of ある？
> If so, why it is not ありはない but ありはしない?



I don't know why, I just know there's no such word as "ありはない".

~ったら+ありはしない is a set phrase.


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## Wishfull

情けないったらありゃしない＝I cannot help feeling pity.
くやしいったらありゃしない＝I cannot help feeling the sting.
もったいないったらありゃしない＝I can't help thinking, "what a waste!"

You may just think ったらありゃしない　is an idiomatic expression, which means "I cannot help~".
The idiom is usually spoken by middle or old aged female.

Ordinary native Japanese can't analyze each part of that expression.  It is a common, spoken expression.


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## almostfreebird

lammn said:


> I have just come across another website and find that ったら means と言ったら, which is similar to といえば, as you have suggested.




I recommend you this site, http://www.guidetojapanese.org/conditional.html

The website you mentioned has flaws, though I cannot read everything there cause I can't read Chinese. 

This sentence "あんな人間が私の親だなんて、情けないったらありゃしない" must've be drawn 
from alc(英辞郎) http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%81%82%e3%82%8a%e3%82%83%e3%81%97%e3%81%aa%e3%81%84/UTF-8/
This site is very useful but also has a lot of flaws, it is constantly improving though, like Wikipedia.


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## lammn

Thank you very much, Almostfreebird and Wishfull.
Your answers are of great help!



almostfreebird said:


> I recommend you this site, http://www.guidetojapanese.org/conditional.html


Thanks for your recommendation!
I have heard that Taekim is good for learning grammar.
But I need more example sentences to learn particular Japanese phrases.



almostfreebird said:


> The website you mentioned has flaws, though I cannot read everything there cause I can't read Chinese.


Ooops!
That's why I try my best not to go to Chinese websites or forums to learn Japanese. I came across that website by chance only.


almostfreebird said:


> This sentence "あんな人間が私の親だなんて、情けないったらありゃしない" must've be drawn
> from alc(英辞郎) http://eow.alc.co.jp/ありゃしない/UTF-8/
> This site is very useful but also has a lot of flaws, it is constantly improving though, like Wikipedia.


まあ！ばれちゃいました。


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## Flaminius

lammn said:
			
		

> ったら means と言ったら


Of course you are right.  Note that no one has said that ったら is a contracted form of ときたら.

ありゃしない is colloquial.  Use ありはしない or simply ない in writing.  You may find this 日国 entry of some interest:


> *と言ったらない*
> 状態を表わす語をうけて、それが、度がはずれていて、はなはだしいことを、驚いたり、あきれたりしていう。…ときたら大変なものだ。


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## almostfreebird

quote: 
That website said that ったら often has a blaming tone. Is that true?:unquote

Since I cannot edit my post #4, I put here:

<Yes, it's true. In that case ったら *means* ときたら, 
and the subject is a living thing. They are interchangeable.>

Edit: means--->has a similar function to:

Yes, it's true. In that case, ったら *has a similar function to* ときたら, 
and the subject is a living thing. They are interchangeable.

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=...name=0ss&stype=0&pagenum=1&index=114006500000

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=ときたら&enc=UTF-8&stype=0&dtype=3


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## lammn

Thank you Flam and Almostfreebird for your further explanation! 

While we are on it, I can't help asking a question:



almostfreebird said:


> タケシったらいつも遅れてくるんだから＝タケシときたらいつも遅れてくるんだから


 


almostfreebird said:


> and the subject is a living thing.


 
So, the taxi can also be regarded as a "living thing"?
Though I understand that it is the *taxi driver* you are blaming for.


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## almostfreebird

lammn said:


> Thank you Flam and Almostfreebird for your further explanation!
> 
> While we are on it, I can't help asking a question:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the taxi can also be regarded as a "living thing"?
> Though I understand that it is the *taxi driver* you are blaming for.



It's not taxi but Takeshi Kitano

I should have said "*generally* the subject is a living thing.", because I've just realised now you can also say:
あのタクシーったらいつも遅れてくるんだから。as well as
タケシったらいつも遅れてくるんだから.


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## lammn

Oh, sorry!
I don't know why I have misread Takeshi as Takushī(taxi) for so many times.


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