# marcher sur la tête



## KaRiNe_Fr

Hello Forum 

I would like to say this typically French expression "marcher sur la tête".

Here is a context:
«— Comment ça va en ce moment dans ton boulot ?
— Pas terrible... 
— Ah bon ? Qu'est-ce qui se passe ?
— On nous a demandé de baisser la qualité de nos produits pour faire de plus grosses marges... On commence vraiment à marcher sur la tête dans cette entreprise ! 
— En effet tu as raison, on vous demande de faire n'importe quoi, ça en devient absurde !»

For me and in this context, "marcher sur la tête" means doing foolish and absurd things nearly going crazy...
For the TLFi it's slightly different:


> _Au fig.  __Marcher sur la tête. _Faire quelque chose d'extraordinaire, d'impossible.


Would you understand this expression in this context like me?
How would you translate it?

Thanks for your help.


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## tilt

For me, it means exactly what you said: things are going mad.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Thanks tilt for this info. I had the impression I misused this expression during some decades. 
Don't you have any English proposal as an equivalent?


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## tilt

I dig the net but didn't find a way to get an equivalent, sorry! We must wait for native English speaker.


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## redstripe

I've never heard the expression used in French before, but on first reading, I agreed with the definition "faire quelque chose d'extraordinaire, d'impossible."  The best (Am.) English expressions would be "to bend over backwards" or "to break my neck."  These mean, roughly, an extraordinary effort.  I'm sure others can come up with other expressions.

Oh, more colloquially, maybe "to bust one's ass" (e.g. "I really busted my ass to do that").


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## englishman

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> For me and in this context, "marcher sur la tête" means doing foolish and absurd things nearly going crazy...
> For the TLFi it's slightly different:
> Would you understand this expression in this context like me?
> How would you translate it?
> 
> Thanks for your help.



There are many, many ways you could say something similar in English:

"This company is going crazy/mad/insane"
"This company is off its rocker"
"This company is being run by idiots/fools/morons" 
"This company has its head up its arse"

It depends upon the precise meaning that you wish to express and how vulgar you wish to be.


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## tilt

englishman said:


> "This company has its head up its arse"


Could this literally be translated into _Avoir la tête dans le cul ?_


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## Calamitintin

I would have said like KaRiNe, to lose one's mind 
++
Cal


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## SFguy

How about:  

They're really starting to get on my (or everybody's) nerves around here.  

This expresses irritation and conveys intensity, but isn't swearing, and could be spoken anywhere. 

When we say "you're getting on my nerves," it's generally a warning that suggests further action may be coming!

I'm not totally sure if the French expression is about the aggravation experienced, or an observation that the company has "got it all wrong" and gone in a bad direction.


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## tilt

Don't you think it might have been a good idea to make this question a separate thread?

In French we say _taper sur les nerfs_:

They're really starting to get on my nerves around here = _ils commencent vraiment à me taper sur les nerfs, dans le coin_.


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## englishman

tilt said:


> "to have ones head up ones arse"
> 
> Could this literally be translated into _Avoir la tête dans le cul ?_



No. If someone "has his head up his arse" it implies that he does stupid things, or is incapable of understanding, usually over an extended period of time. You wouldn't use it for a one-off mistake e.g.

"That manager in accounts still can't use Excel after 2 years of trying"
"Yeah, I know, the guy's got his head up his arse"

or:

"The managers of this company never seem to be able to plan ahead"
"Yeah, they've all got their heads up their arses"

It's a pretty flexible insult though, so you will probably hear it used in a wide variety of circumstances.


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## marget

I found "On marche sur la têre" in my dictionary translated as "It's crazy" or "There's no rhyme or reason to it."  This company is going crazy seems right or they're going crazy in this company.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Thanks guys for all your inputs! 
Let me add for me this expression is not vulgar at all nor really an insult... only a kind of criticism.
Maybe I should use "This company is off its rocker" (from englishman), what do you think?

Edit: oops! I didn't read your post marget. I would like not to use such a word as "crazy" as this expression if it conveys the same idea (in my opnion), it doesn't say the word... don't know if I'm clear enough, sorry...


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## englishman

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Thanks guys for all your inputs!
> Let me add for me this expression is not vulgar at all nor really an insult... only a kind of criticism.
> Maybe I should use "This company is off its rocker" (from englishman), what do you think?



"To be off ones rocker" = "to be mad/crazy" but it's more colloquial (and maybe only BE ?) so "This company is going crazy" is probably fine.



> Edit: oops! I didn't read your post marget. I would like not to use such a word as "crazy" as this expression if it conveys the same idea (in my opnion), it doesn't say the word... don't know if I'm clear enough, sorry...


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

englishman said:


> [...] I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.


"marcher sur la tête" doesn't say explicitly "mad" or "crazy"... Even if it's the idea. Does it become more clear?


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## englishman

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> "marcher sur la tête" doesn't say explicitly "mad" or "crazy"... Even if it's the idea. Does it become more clear?



Vous cherchez un idiome qui ne mentionne pas le mot "crazy" mais qui veut dire "crazy" ? Dans ce cas-là, "off its rocker" convient bien, à mon avis.


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## SFguy

I wasn't intending to introduce a new thread but instead asking the question: 

Is marcher sur la tete an expression of personal aggravation like getting on my nerves OR is it a general observation of the state of things (as in all screwed up, haywire, or off-course --in descending degrees of intensity)?

Does la tete refer to the observer's or the company (as in their sense of morale)?  

I subsequently found the expression in the Oxford Hachette, and it translates to walk all over somebody. Hmm, that translation goes quite a different  direction from everything discussed. I didn't think this is what Karine had in mine, or is it?   



tilt said:


> Don't you think it might have been a good idea to make this question a separate thread?
> 
> In French we say _taper sur les nerfs_:


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## tilt

SFguy said:


> I wasn't intending to introduce a new thread but instead asking the question:
> 
> Is marcher sur la tete an expression of personal aggravation like getting on my nerves OR is it a general observation of the state of things (as in all screwed up, haywire, or off-course --in descending degrees of intensity)?
> 
> Does la tete refer to the observer's or the company (as in their sense of morale)?
> 
> I subsequently found the expression in the Oxford Hachette, and it translates to walk all over somebody. Hmm, that translation goes quite a different  direction from everything discussed. I didn't think this is what Karine had in mine, or is it?


There's nothing about getting nervous in this expression. As you said, it is a general observation.
_La tête_ is the one of _on_, which refers to people of the company.


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## SFguy

Put another way, I was asking whether we're talking about "us" or talking about "them"?  

I think expressions like this can get confusing for an English translation and only the French can clear things up. (Thank you, Tilt.)

Typically in English _on_ translates to a generalized "we" ("we don't do this" or "one doesn't do this" or even "you don't this" --the latter sometimes being confusing.  But _on _doesn't translate to a "they" --or at least I can't think of an example that does. 

And it seem like the (incorrect?) Hachette translation, _they're walking all over us, _adds further confusion and goes off track, as _on_ would be clearly a "they"  but la tete would be _ours_, not theirs. 

Ay-yi-yi! 



tilt said:


> There's nothing about getting nervous in this expression. As you said, it is a general observation.
> _La tête_ is the one of _on_, which refers to people of the company.


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## Le Bélier

SFguy said:


> But _on _doesn't translate to a "they" --or at least I can't think of an example that does.



Actually, _on _can sometimes be translated as _they.  _For your consideration: _En France, on parle français_.  Depending on whether you want an active voice or a passive voice translation, both _In France, French is spoken _and _In France, they speak French_ are viable translations.


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## SFguy

Hmm well... I see your point, but I think for _En France, on parle francais_, it's more a generalized "one" in English, which is not exactly like saying "they" is it? 

Because if I wanted to translate in reverse and emphasize them, their "otherness", I'd want to say _ils_ somehow, like _les gens la, ils parlent francais, non?  _(lol!) 

And though this may sound like a new thread, I think it's still related.  

My earlier point is that the generalized _on_ or even _la tete _(not _ma, notre, or leur) _can add to the confusion for English translation that I guess is not experienced by native speakers!  



Le Bélier said:


> Actually, _on _can sometimes be translated as _they.  _For your consideration: _En France, on parle français_.  Depending on whether you want an active voice or a passive voice translation, both _In France, French is spoken _and _In France, they speak French_ are viable translations.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Thanks guys (and not only SF  ).
"Marcher sur la tête" is a set phrase, you will never say "ma/ta/sa/notre/votre/leur tête", it's a generality.


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## SFguy

Right, Karine. It's confusing in English, because usually we have to specify just whose head it is and don't enjoy the easy ambiguity of saying  _la tete. 

_Although, come to think of it, we do have some exceptions, like "easy on the eyes"  where we mean everybody's eyes. 

But I'm probably digressing again....




KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Thanks guys (and not only SF  ).
> "Marcher sur la tête" is a set phrase, you will never say "ma/ta/sa/notre/votre/leur tête", it's a generality.


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## tilt

SFguy said:


> Put another way, I was asking whether we're talking about "us" or talking about "them"?
> 
> I think expressions like this can get confusing for an English translation and only the French can clear things up. (Thank you, Tilt.)
> 
> Typically in English _on_ translates to a generalized "we" ("we don't do this" or "one doesn't do this" or even "you don't this" --the latter sometimes being confusing.  But _on _doesn't translate to a "they" --or at least I can't think of an example that does.
> 
> And it seem like the (incorrect?) Hachette translation, _they're walking all over us, _adds further confusion and goes off track, as _on_ would be clearly a "they"  but la tete would be _ours_, not theirs.
> 
> Ay-yi-yi!


I would say _on _refers to _us_, because the sentence is said by someone working there, and it's quite logical to say _nous _speaking about your company. But I also would say it refers to _them_, because the one who complains certainly think they are not responsible for the problems.
Then you can consider this _on _is a _nous _that means _they_.


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## Nicomon

I understand « marcher sur la tête » as the TLFI defines it, but to give it your meaning, how about ...

Everyone's _*going bananas / going nuts*_ in this company 

Would that work?


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## Globug

[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Karine, l'équivalent dont je pense, c'est quelque chose comme, [/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']"things are really turned upside down," or "everything's backwards," etc.[/FONT]


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Oui, c'est un peu ça Globug... il faudrait ajouter aussi l'aspect "en dépis du bon sens".
Nico, je voudrais pas quelque chose de trop cru dans le mad/nuts, tu vois ?


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## Nicomon

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Oui, c'est un peu ça Globug... il faudrait ajouter aussi l'aspect "en dépis du bon sens".
> Nico, je voudrais pas quelque chose de trop cru dans le mad/nuts, tu vois ?


 
Je suggérais _nuts/bananas_ dans le sens de _cinglé/crazy_. J'ai mal compris alors.

En v'là une autre... et je vais me coucher 
_Everyone's gone haywire_ in this compay (tout le monde a perdu la tête)
OU
_Things are really going haywire in this company_ (tout se détraque)

OU dans un tout autre ordre d'idées
_Decisions are made against good judgement / people have lost all common sense_


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## dox78

Sounds like you're trying to accomplish two goals: a phrase that matches the spirit, tone, and origin of the French expression, and doing this also with an expression or idiom (i.e. "This company doesn't know what it's doing," is probably a reasonable equivalent sentence, but it's more ordinary and easily translates to French without having to use the original phrase).

So, Nico is on the right track with "things going haywire."

I would suggest these as possibilities:

"The company can no longer put its right foot in front of its left foot."
"The company can't tell if it's going forward or backward."
The one suggestion about "everything's backwards" works with this context too, and the other one using upside-down. For instance: "they're really starting to do things upside-down at this company!"
More vulgar: "doing things ass-backwards (or back-asswards)."

EDIT: with the added connotation that there is a lack of common sense... I think the first two sentences fit the bill, no?


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## tilt

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Oui, c'est un peu ça Globug... il faudrait ajouter aussi l'aspect "en dépis du bon sens".


Karine, _things are really turned upside down_ n'évoque-t-il pas implicitement l'aspect _en dépit du bon sens_ = pas comme les choses devraient se faire?


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## KaRiNe_Fr

tilt said:


> Karine, _things are really turned upside down_ n'évoque-t-il pas implicitement l'aspect _en dépit du bon sens_ = pas comme les choses devraient se faire?


Oui, tu as sans doute raison.
J'espère toujours que quelqu'un me sortira une belle expression imagée de derrière les fagots, mais celle-ci doit déjà faire l'affaire, avec "everything's backwards" et "things going haywire".
Merci bien à tous pour vos efforts et votre patience avec moi.


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## merquiades

Nicomon said:


> En v'là une autre... et je vais me coucher
> _Everyone's gone haywire_ in this compay (tout le monde a perdu la tête)
> OU
> _Things are really going haywire in this company_ (tout se détraque)



Years later I'm looking for the same translation and I'm confident I found it here.  Merci Nicoman. 

Things are going haywire around here!


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