# BCS: partitive with persons and animals



## sesperxes

Dear foreros,

I've some doubts about constructions with partitive sense. Up to now I know this:

- in partitive expessions with measures and objects, the construction is directly with GENITIVE: kilo sira, litra mleka, itd.
- in constructions with persons and animals, we must add a preposition (nijedan od mojih prijatelja, jedna žena među ljudima, najljepši između njih) except with the combination numeral+pronoun, when we have a neutral+gentitive (nasGEN troje, dvoje vasGEN).


If this "rule" is correct, how do I say: "one of the cars is red" (jedan auta/jedan od auta/samo jedan između auta je crveni).

Thanks once again.


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## Duya

sesperxes said:


> If this "rule" is correct, how do I say: "one of the cars is red" (jedan auta/jedan od auta/samo jedan između auta je crveni).
> 
> Thanks once again.



I'd rather reformulate that, because it's potentially misleading:

- Partitive genitive goes with all adverbs of quantity and quantifier nouns, regardless of animacy:

_malo prijateljâ, nekoliko ženâ, nekoliko nas, kilo sira, metar drvâ, gomila ljudi, mnoštvo mravâ, par konjâ..._

Circumflex in â above denotes length, i.e. genitive plural (except for _sir_, which does not have plural as a material noun). However, singular naturally goes when the quantifier denotes only a part:

_pola hleba, deo kolača, trećina torte_ 

- When you use a preposition, you always need an appropriate case, which may or may not be genitive:

_Jedna od ženâGEN, jedna među ženamaINS, jedna između ženaGEN_.

Thus: _jedan od autâ je crven_ or _jedan među autima je crven_. The first  sounds natural, the second not so much.

I sense that _između_ has chiefly spatial meaning; _među_ can be used both in spatial and selection sense: *_Jedan između auta je crven_ is barely grammatical.


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## Magdalena Petrovic

Indeed, I would understand "Jedan između auta" exclusively as someone third standing between two cars 

But we can use "između" also in phrases such as "odabrati između dve stvari" (to choose between two things)

Espero que te ayude


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## sesperxes

Magdalena Petrovic said:


> Indeed, I would understand "Jedan između auta" exclusively as someone third standing between two cars
> 
> But we can use "između" also in phrases such as "odabrati između dve stvari" (to choose between two things)
> 
> Espero que te ayude



Is it the same difference in Spanish between "entre" (uno entre nosotros/uno de nosotros-one of us-jedan nas) and "en medio de" (está en medio de dos hombres- he's between two men- on je između dva čoveka"), isn't it?


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## Magdalena Petrovic

Yes, I'd say that's correct. 
"Jedan među nama" or "uno entre nosotros" is the same as "jedan od nas" or "uno de nosotros", but "Jedan između nas" is the one "en medio de nosotros" 

But pay attention, you must use the preposition "od" here: jedan *od *nas, jedan *od *​automobila.


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## sesperxes

Duya, I'm a nuisance, I know. You indicated  that: 





> - When you use a preposition, you always need an appropriate case, which may or may not be genitive:


  Does it mean that I can choose too between (gen) and (od + genitive)? 
With quantities (kilo, nekoliko, hrpa and numerals) I understand that this partitive goes directly in genitive (kupujem kilo sira, ima hrpa ljudi, imala je par jutra zemlje, dva piva, sedam pivâ), but in the specifical sense of "among" (we have a lot of things and we choose among them), may I choose between using OD + GEN or only GEN? 

For instance:     "one of us"  ---> jedan nas or jedan od nas (but certainly jedan među nama)
                                        "the wisest of all" ---> najmudriji svih or najmudriji od svih (but certainly najmudriji među svima)

Once again, many thanks.


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## Magdalena Petrovic

"Jedan nas" or "najmudriji svih" do not exist. You must put an "od" between the two words. - that is OD+Gen
You can say "kilogram jabuka" - that's partitive Genitive - and you can say "dajte mi kilogram od ovih jabuka" (give me one kilo of these apples), but you don't say "kilogram od jabuka". 
And we don't use partitive genitive for people, unless maybe in something like this: "Ta pesma je postala deo mene" (That song became a part of me)

"Pronašla sam nešto interesantno među ovim knjigama" (I found something interesting among these books") - that is među+Locative


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## Duya

It is actually rather simple, Sesperxes: translate English "of" with BCS "od", when it means "among". _Od_ happens to require genitive, but it is not partitive genitive (or at least, don't treat it as such, I'm not sure what grammar book say). I know you're used to complexity of BCS, but this part is not so terrible. 

Just as in English "one car" and "one of cars" does not mean the same, so in BCS "jedan auto" and "jedan od autâ" does not mean the same.



Magdalena Petrovic said:


> "Pronašla sam nešto interesantno među ovim knjigama" (I found something interesting among these books") - that is među+Locative



Actually, it's instrumental, not locative. You can test it if you use a collective noun: _s lišćem:među lišćem_, not *_među lišću_. But _među_ usually takes a plural argument, and the two cases have the same form in plural.


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## Magdalena Petrovic

Yes indeed, that makes sense, thanks for the correction


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## sesperxes

Hiljada hvala: sada znam šta da radim sa "od"!


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