# memnum olmak / sevinmek



## Pitt

Merhaba!

I'd like to know if these translations are correct:

I am pleased about your visit >

*1. Ziyaretinden memnun oldum.*
*2. Ziyaretine sevindim.*

Selamlar!


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## macrotis

Both are acceptable. Also,

Ziyaret ettiğine memnun oldum
Ziyaret ettiğine sevindim.


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## Pitt

macrotis said:


> Both are acceptable. Also,
> 
> Ziyaret ettiğine memnun oldum
> Ziyaret ettiğine sevindim.


 
Thanks! I'd like to know if is possible too:

Ziyaretine memnun oldum.

As far as I know *memnun olmak* requires *-den*.


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## macrotis

Pitt said:


> Thanks! I'd like to know if is possible too:
> 
> Ziyaretine memnun oldum.



I've never said or heard it this way, but it's also OK.



> As far as I know *memnun olmak* requires *-den*.


Not necessarily. Eg: *Tanıştığımıza memnun oldum.* *Benden bahsetmenize memnun oldum.*


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## ciao amore

Pitt said:


> Thanks! I'd like to know if is possible too:
> 
> Ziyaretine memnun oldum.
> 
> As far as I know *memnun olmak* requires *-den*.


 
*Genau. Beide Denklinationen sind möglich. Allerdings ist '' ziyaretine '' die Form von der längeren Version, '' ziyaret ettiğine memnun oldum. '' als ob es im Dativ aussähe. *

*Ziyaretinden memnun oldum. ( Ich bin mit deinem Besuch zufrieden.)*

*Ziyaret ettiğine memnun oldum. ( Ich bin damit zufrieden, dass du mich besucht hast.)*


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## Pitt

Thanks! Are there other examples with *-e memnun oldum*?


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## bskmng

seni gördüğüme memnun oldum. (im glad to see you)

tanıştığıma memnun oldum. (nice to meet you)


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## Pitt

macrotis said:


> I've never said or heard it this way, but it's also OK.
> 
> Not necessarily. Eg: *Tanıştığımıza memnun oldum.* *Benden bahsetmenize memnun oldum.*


 
Thanks! What does *Benden bahsetmenize memnun oldum* mean in English?


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## Rallino

*Benden bahsetmenize memnun oldum
=
I'm pleased that you are talking about me.
*


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## daywisher

Herkese merhaba,
 
I just saw this thread and found it interesting. I have some objections. I think Pitt’s opening question deserves a detailed explanation. Here is version. 
 
*THE NUANCE: *
 “Memnun olmak” does not necessarily mean “sevinmek.” Though, it may bring about “sevinmek”
 
Here is how we use them in the extreme ends.  
Ø       İlk defa gökkuşağı gördüğümde çok şaşırdım, neden bilmiyorum, çok da sevindim. “ It was the first time I saw a rainbow. I was amazed, and I don’t know why, also got so happy. “ 
Ø       Formula 1 pilot survived the terrible accident; “Oh, I am glad he survived”. “pilot birşey olmadığı*na* *memnun oldum*”. (I don’t know him personally, I don’t have a reason to be so happy about. Similarly, if he died, I wouldn’t be moaning. 
Ø       Your son returns from the battlefield: “Döndüğün*e* çok *memnun oldum*”, but definitely say “döndüğü*ne* çok *sevindim*”. What would you say about the the war? I would definitely say “savaşın bittiğine çok sevindim”.  “Savaşın bittiğine çok memnun oldum” is perfectly alright but is lacking in real feeling. 
 
*GRAMMER / SYNTAX*
“Memnun olmak” is compound verb: In this case “an adjective + a verb”. Here, it is literally “glad + to be”
Ø       Infinitive form indicates a “state of being”, and is a concept in philosophy / psycology. In daily language inifitive form becomes complement, or subject, not a verb. 
“Sokakta yaşamak*tan* *memnun olmak* diye bir şey söz konusu olamaz. Bir insanın halin*den* *memnun olabilmesi *için, barınacak bir evi, karnını doyuracak kadar parası olması gerekir”  
Ø       In present tense and in story-telling past forms, the verb part drops, and the personal suffixes of the (dropped) verb are added to the adjective. (See below)
Ø       For all other tenses and moods, “verb (to be)” is replaced with “*kalmak*”, which means “stay / stay with”.  “O arabadan memnun kalmadım (past) = “ I stayed happy with this car”. Or in the future tense;  “o arabadan memnun kalacağım”. The same exact meaning of “to be”.  


 
 
My text was too long for a single reply, so I divided it. 
Please see the following post for the rest of it.


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## daywisher

Here is the most common conjugations:  
 
*-den memnun olmak / -den memnun kalmak *
 
Noun-den
 
*Şimdiki zaman *
Simple Present – Present Continuous
Continuous action - always
*Geçmiş “-di şekli”*
Direct story telling
(I know that ..so..)
(French Imparfait) 
*Geçmiş  “-miş şekli”*
Indirect story telling
(they told me so..)
Ben         
Bu ev*den*
O kalem*den*
Bu şehir*den*
İstanbul’*dan*
Bu boya*dan*
Memnun*um* / değil*im* 
Memnun*dum *
Memnun*muşum*
Sen
Memnun*sun */  değil*sin* 
Memnun*dun*
Memnun*muşsun*
O
Memnun / değil 
Memnun*du*
Memnun*muşlar*
Biz
Memnun*uz* / değil*iz*
Memnun*duk*
Memnun*muşuz*
Siz
Memnun*sunuz*  / değil*siniz* 
Memnun*dunuz*
Memnun*muşunuz*
Onlar
Memnun*lar* / değil*ler*
Memnun*dular* / *lardı*
Memnun*muşlar / larmış*

 
 
Noun-den
*Basit Geçmiş Zaman*
Simple Past
Completed action 
*Gelecek Zaman*
Simle Future
Undefined future
*Modal *
Modal 
Here for ”can” and “may”
Ben         
Bu ev*den*
O kalem*den*
Bu şehir*den*
İstanbul’*dan*
Bu boya*dan*
Memnun *kaldım* 
Memnun *kalacağım*
Memnun *kalabilirim*
Sen
Memnun *kaldın*
Memnun *kalacaksın*
Memnun *kalabilirsin*
O
Memnun *kaldı*
Memnun *kalacaklar*
Memnun *kalabilir*
Biz
Memnun *kaldık*
Memnun *kalacağız*
Memnun *kalabiliriz*
Siz
Memnun *kaldınız* 
Memnun *kalacaksınız*
Memnun *kalabilirsiniz*
Onlar
Memnun *kaldılar*
Memnun *kalacaklar*
Memnun *kalabilirler*

 
*-e memnun olmak */ -e memnun kalmak
 
State/condition + *e/a*
 
Ben         
Seni Gördüğüm*e*
Oraya gittiğime
Kedinin ölmediğine
Uzlaşma sağlandığına
Problemin çözüldüğüne
Ameliyatın iyi geçtiğine
Buna (Bu duruma) 
Çalışıyor olmana
Gelecek olmanıza 
*Gelişinize (see note*) *
*Ziyaretinize (*)* 
Tanıştığımıza (**)
 
 
 
For present and story-telling past; the same conjugation
For other tenses and moods, just use the verb “olmak” instead of “kalmak”
 
 
 
Sen
O
Biz
Siz
Onlar

 
*NOTES: *
Ø       “-den memnun olmak / kalmak” is used when pleased for something / some entity (noun) 
Ø       “-e memnun olmak” is used when pleased from a state / circumstances. 
Ø       Saying that in Turkish, bir şey*den memnun kalırız*, bir durum*a* *memnun oluruz*. 
Ø       *(*)*  “Geliş = Geliyor olma hali”, “Ziyaret= Ziyaret ediyor olma hali”, olarak algılanırsa bu gibi örnekler de  “-e/a” ile çekiliyor”  denebilir, ama ben bunu hiç duymadım. Gramer olarak bence doğru olan “Geliyor olmanıza, Ziyaret ediyor olmanıza / ziyaret etmiş olmanıza şeklindeki kullanım.” As already stated by  others in this thread. 
Ø       Note that “tanıştığımıza” = tanışmış olmamıza, is a state of knowing each other. 
 
*Back to Pitt’s original question; 
*“I am pleased _about_ your visit” seems rather formal. like, “The tourism sector is very pleased about this season”. (Turizm Sektörü bu sezondan çok memnun !”) What makes the sector happy is not the season itself, but the things that the season “brings _about_”, (the moneyJ) 

Any one of the followings may fit: 
Ø Ziyaretiniz*den* *memnun* oldum *kaldım*” 
Ø Ziyaret etmeniz*e* *sevindim*. 
Ø Ziyaret ettiğiniz*e* (çok) *sevindim.* 
Ø Maybe; Ziyaretiniz(gelişiniz) beni çok *mutlu etti*. 


Sabrınız için teşekkürler, Yanlışım varsa lütfen düzeltin.

Hoşçakalın.


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## daywisher

I just realized that for some reason my table and text formatting is destroyed on tranmission, so it misses the point. 

My main point is, 
"Ziyaretiniz*den* *memnun* *oldum* ” is incorrect. 
"Ziyaretiniz*den* *memnun* *kaldım*” is OK


Note: If the moderator or anybody could please tell me how to "send" MS word tables with this editor, I can re-send my text. (of course, if anybody is interested) 

Regads


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## Rallino

daywisher, a nice and exhaustive explanation you've got there. Thanks for that, it'll surely help those who are interested in. However I need to object to something.

"Memnun olmak / memnun kalmak". These expressions, although very similar to each other, are slightly different to my ears.

Ziyaretinize memnun oldum = I'm glad that you visited me.
Ziyaretinizden memnun kaldım = Your visit has contented/satisfied me. (because we concluded some problems during your visit, etc)

It might be just me, but that's the conclusion I come up with when I analyze these 2 expressions in my head. =)


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## Pitt

Hi daywisher!

Many thanks for your detailed explanation. In this context I have a question about your example:

*Savaşın bittığine çok sevindim.*

Is *Savaşın *a genitive and *bittiğine *a dative?

Regards


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## Rallino

Pitt said:


> Hi daywisher!
> 
> Many thanks for your detailed explanation. In this context I have a question about your example:
> 
> *Savaşın bittığine çok sevindim.*
> 
> Is *Savaşın *a genitive and *bittiğine *a dative?
> 
> Regards



That's right ;-)


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## daywisher

Çalışma*mın* beğenildiği*ne* sevindim. Cesaretlendirici yorum ve katkılarınız için teşekkürler. 

Rallino, 
Referring to your comments, 

Ziyaretinize memnun oldum = I'm glad that you visited me.  I agree.
Ziyaretinizden memnun kaldım = Your visit has contented/satisfied me.  (because we concluded some problems during your visit, etc)  If this is the case, one could clearly say, "Ziyaretinizin sonuçlarından memnun kaldım", however, this phrase excludes the visitor, which is rude and somehow meaningless, because without the visitor the results wouldn't have been acheived. I think, when we say "ziyaretinizden memnun kaldım", we cover both the visitor and the outcomes of his visit alltogether. 

Pitt, I don't have anything to add to Rallino's reply on dative & genitive.  


Esen kalın.


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## Pitt

Hi Rallino, daywisher! Thanks for your answers! 

In this context another example:

*I am glad about your [informal] present =*
*Hediyene memnun oldum.*

Is this correct?


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## Rallino

Err..That sounds a little weird I'd say 

I would say: *Hediyen beni çok mutlu etti.* or most simply: *Hediye için çok sağol*.

This is however if you give that present to me. If you are giving it to someone else, and that I'm commenting on your present, well in that case, I guess it is O.K. to say "hediyene memnun oldum".


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## Pitt

Tekrar çok teşekkürler!


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## Britishboy

Pitt said:


> Hi daywisher!
> 
> Many thanks for your detailed explanation. In this context I have a question about your example:
> 
> *Savaşın bittığine çok sevindim.*
> 
> Is *Savaşın *a genitive and *bittiğine *a dative?
> 
> Regards



*Savaşın bittiği:* the -ın is genitive and the -i is possessive.  They make a possessive pair, 'the war's ending' or 'the end of the war', *savaş *being the possessor, hence *savaşın*, and *bittik *the possessed, hence *bittiği.*  The latter makes the 'ending' specifically the ending of the war, not just any old ending.

I suggest that the dative -e on *bittiğine *(after the -n- buffer) actually applies to the whole pair, i.e. not just to an unspecific 'ending' but to the 'war's ending'.


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## Rallino

That's right. Whenever in a complement of possession; the possessor takes the genitive form, it is the possessor that we're talking about.

*Eski kale duvarı = The old castle wall.*

Here, the possessor is *kale* and it has no suffix. So the adjective _eski _isn't for _kale_ but is for _duvar_. It's the wall that is old, not the castle itself.

*Eski kalenin duvarı = The wall of the old castle*

Here, since the possessor *kale* is in genitive form, it's the very castle that is old.

I suppose that's why, here:

*Savaşın bittiği* <-- Savaş, the possessor, is in genitive form. So it's the war that is being talked about.

If it were a sentence like: *Savaş bitimi beni umutlandırdı.* Then I guess it's the ending that's being talked about.

I'm not entirely sure though, this is just a wild guess. An expert should clarify this


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## Britishboy

If you say:

*Eski kalenin duvarı (The wall of the old castle)* 

the 'eski' refers to the castle.

But if you also have a verb in the sentence, e.g. *Eski kal**enin duvarını gördüm (I saw the wall of the old castle, *or *I saw the old castle's wall)* then the verb is referring to the wall, not the castle.  It's the castle's *wall* that I saw, not necessarily any other part of the castle.  But it's also a specific wall, not just any wall.  The genitive *'kalenin' (the castle's ...) *makes it clear which wall we're talking about: the _castle's _wall.  

So you can't really separate the two.  What did I see?  Not the castle, not 'a wall' (unspecific), but specifially 'the castle wall'.

Similarly, when we say *Savaşın bittiği* we're not talking about the war, but about the _ending of the war._  Neither are we talking about just an ending (of something unspecified), but one specific ending: the ending of the war.  So in *Savaşın bittiğine çok sevindim (I rejoiced about the war's ending) *I rejoiced not about the war, nor just about an ending, but _the war's ending._  That's why I suggested the dative 'e' suffix applies to the _pair _of words together, although of course the dative 'e' is only written once.


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