# αγάπη μας кάνει δυνατούς



## aes1218

Hey all!

I used to have the translation for this phrase and I can't remember it for the life of me, so could someone please translate it for me?

αγάπη μας кάνει δυνατούς


Thank you!


----------



## ireney

Hello,

The phrase, if you include an "Η/η" (Η/η αγάπη μας κάνει δυνατούς) which is the article and is necessary in Greek in this case (and in most cases really) means "love makes us strong".


----------



## jcot05

Hi, 

I take advantage of your answer, ireney, to ask this :

Isn't there a way to distinguih whether μας is a *possessive pronoun *to 'love' or *direct object *to 'make' ?
I'm having in mind the 2 different sentences : "ο φίλος μου είπε", and, "ο φίλος μού είπε", (but where μού is an *indirect objet*, genitive).

What i'm also asking is i guess: couldn't "η αγάπη μας κάνει δυνατούς" be also translated by "our love makes strongs (implicit: people)".

Thanks.


----------



## ireney

Hello,

No, not in this case. Let me try to unjumble things in my mind so I can explain (note that I haven't had all that much coffee yet!). 
In the examples you gave, the word "φίλος" is used differently. In the first instance it's the usual "friend". As in English (and, if memory serves right, French), "friend" is always accompanied by whose friend (s)he is. 
In the second instance, the word "φίλος" is used as a placeholder for a name so to speak. The equivalent of "he/she".
To put it another way, while you can start a conversation by saying "my friend told me", you cannot start a conversation "this friend told me". 

You _could_ start with "a friend told me" (in both languages). In this case, the Greek "Ο ΦΙΛΟΣ ΜΟΥ ΕΙΠΕ"  (capitals so as to avoid accent marks), will automatically be assumed to mean that MOY is the indirect object. If you want to say "a friend of mine told me" then you will have to say "ένας φίλος μου μού είπε".

Now, in the case of "αγάπη", the automatic assumption when in doubt (so not in phrases such as "η αγάπη μας είναι δυνατή" where there's no room for doubt) is that we are talking about "love" in general, not a specific case of love. If we do want to say "out love makes us stronger" therefore, we will have to include "our" there: "Η αγάπη μας μας κάνει δυνατούς".

Does the above make any sense?


----------



## jcot05

Thanks for your answer ireney, i get why that can't be with αγάπη now.

But let's say with ηγεμόνας (because it's accentuated in the paraligousa and not in the proparaligousa where we could get a 2nd accent in the case of the possessive) :

Ο ηγεμόνας τους σκώτωσε

If i understand right, this time there could be a misunderstanding as "Ο ηγεμόνας" always designates someone in particular, that is so?

So : The sovereign kill them OR Their sovereign killed (implicit: someone else).

I feel that the first translation is more natural (am i right?) and that the 2nd one kinda lacks a direct object to be clearer, but couldn't there be a confusion in theory? And in that case could "τους" receive an accent to show it is not a possessive (even if it's not [genivite/indirect object] but [accusative/direct object])?


----------



## ireney

Sorry for the delayed answer. The thing is, you got me thinking. I think the rule is no accent (and yes, by the way, you are right the first translation is more natural). I will look into it in case it's not one of the few cases where the possible confusion can only be resolved by the overall context but it may take me a while.


----------



## jcot05

Thank's for your time!


----------



## ireney

Hi, 

I have to apologize again for the delayed answer (again!). From all I could find, there is some confusion over the matter. However, the common practice seems to be to actually put an accent regardless of whether it is the direct or indirect object _if _ there could be confusion over the matter. In general, even if there's a double, say, "μου", a lot of people seems to prefer accenting the second (the one acting as object) to avoid the momentary "bafflement" over seeing two "μου".


----------



## jcot05

Δεν απαραιτείται να ζητήσεις συγνώμη... και σ' ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ για την καθαρή σου απάντηση!


----------



## egaleo

Νομίζω πως το θέμα είναι πολύ απλό, τόσο για τους έχοντες μητρική γλώσσα την ελληνική όσο και τους ξένους. Όπως πολύ σωστά επισημαίνεται, το πρόβλημα ανακύπτει  μόνον όταν υπάρχει κίνδυνος εννοιολογικής σύγχισης κατά τη χρήση της αιτιατικής των αδύνατων τύπων των προσωπικών αντωνυμιών και εκείνων των κτητικών, γιατί μοιάζουν μορφολογικά. Στην περίπτωση αυτή οι αδύνατοι τύποι των προσωπικών αντωνυμιών πάντα τονίζονται, σε αντίθεση προς τις κτητικές αντωνυμίες,  και τούτο γιατί στον προφορικό λόγο η κτητική αντωνυμία συνεκφέρεται (προφέρεται ως μία λέξη) μαζί με το ουσιαστικό που προηγείται.
Παράδειγμα: _Ο πατέρας μας (_προφέρεται _ο πατέραςμας) έδωσε 10 ευρώ (our father gave 10 euro), _ενώ _Ο πατέρας μάς έδωσε 10 ευρώ (_προφέρεται _ο πατέρας μας) έδωσε 10 ευρώ (the father gave to us 10 euro)._ 
Ερχόμαστε τώρα στο παράδειγμα του _ηγεμόνα. _Η γραφή _Ο ηγεμόνας τους σκότωσε _σημαίνει _Their prince killed, _αλλά η πρόταση είναι ελλιπής, γιατί απουσιάζει το αντικείμενο (ποιον ή ποιους σκότωσε. Εάν γράψουμε _Ο ηγεμόνας τούς σκότωσε (_προφέρουμε _ηγεμόνας τους), _τότε η πρόταση είναι πλήρης_, _γιατί έχει αντικείμενο το _τους (αυτούς), _που είναι προσωπική αντωνυμία αδύνατου τύπου στην αιτιατική και άρα παίρνει τόνο για να αποφευχθεί η σύγχιση.


----------



## aes1218

ireney said:


> Hello,
> 
> The phrase, if you include an "Η/η" (Η/η αγάπη μας κάνει δυνατούς) which is the article and is necessary in Greek in this case (and in most cases really) means "love makes us strong".



So...as there's been a lot of activity on this post at this point - is it still safe to say that Η/η αγάπη μας κάνει δυνατούς is the correct way of saying "love makes us strong"?
Lol - just want to be sure.
thank you!


----------



## egaleo

Yes, it's OK.


----------

