# FR: toujours pas / pas toujours - place de l'adverbe avec la négation



## charlie2

Hi, everyone,
Are these sentences good? Do they carry any nuances?
1.Tu ne m'as toujours pas dit combien vous serez.
2.Tu ne m'as pas toujours dit combien vous serez.
3.Tu ne m'as pas dit toujours combien vous serez.
Context: The speaker is being asked to organize "un repas de noces". He is complaining that it is so difficult in the absence of any information on "combien vous serez".
Thank you.

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one. This thread is specifically about the placement of _toujours_ relative to the negation _pas_. For the general case, see FR: toujours - place de l'adverbe.


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## Benjy

1. is good. impatience to know. like pas encore.
2. mens something different. you haven't always told me ... (the truth for example)
3 i don't like


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## charlie2

Benjy said:
			
		

> 3 i don't like


Thank you for your quick answer. But why? It's wrong grammatically? It is not how you would say it? You have never heard it said like that?


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## Benjy

i don't know if i would say that it was flat out wrong.. it just sounds wrong. toujours should go before the past participle.. thats where it always goes. i gues a native would give you a more definitive answer


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## Agnès E.

Bonjour !
Benjy is right. Toujours and pas cannot be separated, they have to be linked, either as "toujours pas" or as "pas toujours".
The 3rd sentence can be heard, but it is used by low educated people who make a lot of mistakes, just forget it.

I do not know the grammatical rule, but i can say that Benjy gave you the right answer, Charlie !


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## tchev

The only way to make the 3rd sentence gramatically correct would be to surround "toujours" by commas... "Tu ne m'as pas dit, toujours, combien vous serez". It would then take the sense of the 1st sentence, but sound very poor French. Can be heard sometimes in spoken language but I recommend not to use it.


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## GrammarQueen

Comment dis-je "I *still *can't enroll in the course"?  Est-il "je ne peux pas *toujours *m'inscrire au cours"?  Merci!


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## marget

I think it would be "Je ne peux toujours pas...


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## mickaël

"Je ne peux *toujours* pas m'inscrire au cours."

 Yes, marget.


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## Blancheneige

GrammarQueen said:


> Comment dis-je "I *still *can't enroll in the course"? Est-il "je ne peux pas *toujours *m'inscrire au cours"? Merci!


I concur with marget and mickael. 
However, interestingly, your sentence has taken another meaning just because you placed "toujours" after "pas".

"Je ne peux toujours pas m'inscrire" = I still can't enrol
"Je ne peux pas toujours m'inscrire" = I can't enrol everytime

So be careful if you don't want to be misunderstood


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## ChocolateLover

Bonjour a tout le monde:

Povez-vous me dit si ce correctement ecrit, si'l vous plait? I'm not sure if "toujours" would go after "est" or no.

"A treasure isn't always a friend, but a friend is always a treasure"
Un tésor ne est toujours pas un ami, mais un ami est toujour un tésor

[…]

Merci beaucoup


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## Archilocus

ola

Un t*r*ésor n*'*e est *pas* toujours pas un ami, mais un ami est toujour*s* un t*r*ésor


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## chrisgmanu

Having some difficulty with the following sentence:
"Les stéréotypes ne mélangent (toujours) pas les genres"

My attempt:
"Stereotypes don't (always) mix styles". - doesn't seem to sound right to me.

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks


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## Crème Brulée

Bonjour,

Pour moi, "toujours pas" dans ce contexte veut dire "still don't".


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## JeanDeSponde

Crème Brulée said:


> Pour moi, "toujours pas" dans ce contexte veut dire "still don't".


I agree.
_Ne mélangent toujours pas les styles = still don't mix styles
Ne mélangent pas toujours les styles  = don't always mix styles
_This is always true with _toujours pas_ vs. _pas toujours_


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## Rizla

Est qu'on place "toujours" avant "pas" ou âpres "pas" dans  une phrase négative?

Voici plusieurs exemples que j'ai vus :

 "Il ne sait toujours pas" (avant pas)
"Il ne change pas toujours" (après  pas)

[...]

Je pense que toutes les phrases sont bonnes, mais je ne comprends pas les  règles de position.


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## no_cre0

With toujours, the 1st to me means "He still doesn't know" and the second means "He doesn't always change".


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## Fred_C

I agree.
"toujours pas" always means "still not".
"Pas toujours" means "not always".


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## geostan

The meaning of _toujours_ changes according to its position with pas.

Il n'est pas toujours prêt à l'heure.  He is not always ready on time.
Il n'est toujours pas prêt.  He is still not ready (= pas encore)


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## cosette13

I am trying to say "the girl does not always know what is happening." I'm not sure if I am putting "toujours" in the correct place. Would it be like this?: "La fille ne sait pas toujours qu’est-ce qui se passe." 

Merci beaucoup!


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## snarkhunter

Hello,

Yes, your sentence is _almost_ fine. And please note that "toujours pas" (i.e. instead of "pas toujours") would mean "still does not know", which tells how important word order may be in a sentence.

Moreover: "ce qui se passe / ce qu'il se passe" rather than "qu'est-ce qui se passe"


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## cosette13

Thank you so much for you help!


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