# Any rules concerning the spelling of the i sound in Greek



## larshgf

Hello,

I wonder if there is any "rules" or hints concerning how to write (ι, η, ει, oi or η) the i-sounds in a word. 
I am sure that there is no distinct "rules" as such, but maybe som hints to help you spell the words correctly?

Best Regards
Lars


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## Perseas

Hello,
Basically, these vowels and combinations of vowels represent the sound /i/.
ι (e.g. κλίμα)
η (e.g. ειρήνη) [iríni] --> peace
υ (e.g. βαρύς) [varís] --> heavy
ει (e.g.  εικόνα) [ikóna] --> image
οι (e.g. οικονομία)  [ikonomía] --> economy
υι (e.g. υιός) [iós] --> son

In the combinations ευ (ev, ef), ηυ (iv, if), αυ(av, af), ου (u) ,  *υ* doesn't not sound as *i*, as shown in the brackets. Except if there is a diaeresis, e.g. προ*ϋ*πολογισμός [pro*i*pologismós] --> badget or the accent is on the first vowel, e.g. ά*υ*λος [á*i*los] --> immaterial.
Also,  έι is pronounced  /éi/  and όι /ói/.

An _ i (ι, η, υ, ει, οι) occurring before a vowel or a vowel combination (ου, αι, ει, οι) is often pronounced together in a single syllable: πιάνω [pçáno] --> catch, γυαλί [ʝalí] --> glass, άδειες [áðʝes] --> empty (fem. pl.), ποιοι [pçí] --> who (masc. pl.)._


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## larshgf

Thank you Perseas.
However my question was if there are some hints you can use when you want to write greek words containing one ore more i-sounds. When I try to write a sentence I am often in doubt about how to write the i sound (ι, η, ει, oi or υ) in the words.
Maybe one just have to memorize but if some hints could be given as to the spelling of the i-sound it would be a great help. But maybe there is such hints and "rules".
I hope my question is understandable allthough it might be a bit silly.


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## Andrious

As for endings, take a look here . It´s in greek, but it´s quite easy to understand.


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## Perseas

Some other rules:


> Τα ουδέτερα ονόματα σε (-ι) γράφονται με ι
> π.χ. παιδί, αλάτι, σημάδι, φιλί, χέρι, χάδι
> Γράφονται με υ: το βράδυ, το δάκρυ, το δίχτυ, το στάχυ
> α) δυσ-(δύσκολος, κακός) = δυσανάλογος, δυσάρεστος, δυσπεψία, δύσπιστος, δύστυχος, δυσφημώ.
> β) δι-, δισ-(πρώτο συνθετικό του δύο) = δίδραχμο, δικέφαλος, δίκοπος, διπρόσωπος, δισύλλαβος, διγενής, δισέγγονο.
> γ) δυ – (θέμα & πρώτο συνθετικό του δύο) δυάρι, δυαρχία.
> 3) Το (ι) στα ρήματα: Ενεστώτας και Αόριστος
> α) με ι: γίνομαι-έγινα, νίβω-ένιψα, πνίγω-έπνιξα, ραγίζω-ράγισα, ανθίζω-άνθισα.
> β) με υ: χύνω-έχυσα, δακρύζω-δάκρυσα, κ.λπ. Αλλά: ακριβαίνω-ακρίβυνα, κονταίνω-κόντυνα, μακραίνω-μάκρυνα.
> γ) με η: αφήνω-άφηνα, σβήνω-έσβηνα αλλά και βρήκα, βγήκα, μπήκα, ανέβηκα, κατέβηκα, διάβηκα.
> δ) με οι: αθροίζω-άθροισα, ανοίγω-άνοιξα
> ε) με ει: κλείνω-έκλεισα, τείνω-έτεινα, αλείβω-άλειψα. Αλλά και έδειρα, έσπειρα, ανάγγειλα, έστειλα, έμεινα.
> ζ)  με η ο αόριστος: αγαπώ-αγάπησα, τραβώ-τράβηξα
> 
> Προσοχή στα παρακάτω ομώνυμα (ή ομόηχα)
> δανικό τυρί (της Δανίας), δανεικά χρήματα (με δάνειο)
> το κλίμα είναι καλό, το κλήμα είναι γεμάτο σταφύλια
> Αυτός είναι κριτικός (κρίση), Αυτός είναι κρητικός (από την Κρήτη)
> Έπαιζε τη λύρα, αυτό είναι το σήμα της λίρας
> Το φύλλο του δέντρου, το φύλο του παιδιού (αρσενικό ή θηλυκό)
> Αυτός είναι χωρικός (από χωριό), τραγουδούσε το χορικό (του χορού)
> Ο Νίκος είναι ψηλός, Η/Ο άμμος είναι ψιλός (λεπτός)


Source: Τα πολλά μας «Ι» | Neos Kosmos


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## larshgf

Andrious and Perseas. Thank you so much. 
Just what I needed!!


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## ioanell

larshgf said:


> When I try to write a sentence I am often in doubt about how to write the i sound (ι, η, ει, oi or υ) in the words.



Hello,

larshgf, I don’t know if this statement of yours could lead to the hypothesis that you learned your Greek only by hearing and without any optical icon of the words. If this is the case, please be informed that the Modern Greek language is written in its historical orthography (spelling), that is the words are written according to their initial or etymological origin. So, despite the really useful hints and references made by Perseas and Andrious, which I wish to be of help to you, I ‘m afraid you ‘ll only find very few rules governing the Greek spelling; so, I think you (and every other person interested accordingly) should have a personal acquaintance with the written form of the words, as they are offered by a dictionary. I wish you Καλό κουράγιο!


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## larshgf

Thank you Ioanell!
Be assured of that I use my dictionaries and my textbooks etc so I have indeed a visual perception of the Greek words I try to learn.
But the Greek language is a hard language to learn when you are 60+ like me. And being a grammar nerd I am fond of "rules" and "hints" whereever I can collect them. 
To be honest I have not had the time to have a closer look at the texts given to me by Andrious and Perseas, but I am looking forward to study them and see what it brings.


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## Αγγελος

Greek spelling is a major headache, for Greeks as well.
Endings obey clear rules. A masculine noun ending in -is will be spelled with an η (ράφτης); a feminine noun ending in -i will always be spelt with η (πόλη); a neuter noun ending in -i will be spelled with an ι (παιδί, ποτήρι), with the four exceptions noted above; a verbal form ending in -i will be spelled with an ει (γράφει, έχει έρθει, θα κοπεί...)
Suffixes also obey rules, but suffer exceptions. Verbs in -izo are spelled with an ο (χτίζω, ελπίζω), but with more than a dozen exceptions. Verbs in -eno are spelled with an αι (ανεβαίνω, παχαίνω...), but again with three exceptions (μένω, δένω, πλένω). Etc.
For word stems, there is unfortunately no rule. Etymology can sometimes help, although there are absurdities such as αμείβω (to remunerate) vs. αμοιβή (remuneration). The spelling of English words of Greek origin can also sometimes help: ανάλυση = analysis will surely be spelled with an υ, but only the German form Ökologie will let you guess that οικολογία = ecology is spelled  with an initial οι rather than η...


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## Helleno File

Another interesting question from larshgf and great answers all round. Of course we English native speakers look at Greeks spelling /i/ in different ways and think "we should be so lucky!" I've seen it said that English children need 18 months longer than children in other countries to learn our spelling . 

I think there may be some rare exceptions to final /i/ in verbs always being -ει. I wait to be corrected but two that occur to me, presumably from Katharevousa, are:

Τι συνέβη μετά;  - what happened next? 

Ο Κώστας δεν εθεαθή πουθενά - Kostas was nowhere to be seen. 

Hope I'm not misleading you good people!


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## Αγγελος

Right.
In fact, the passive aorist was formed in -(θ)ην in Ancient Greek: ελύθην, ελύθην, ελύθην... = modern λύθηκα, λύθηκε, λύθηκε...
The subjunctive was λυθώ, λυθής, λυθή... and hasn’t changed in 2500 years. *But, *as part of the 1976 spelling reform, the endings were changed to agree with those of the active voice. We thus write να λυθείς, θα λυθεί, even though we still write λύθηκα.
The 3D person singular form is still used in dialects and in poetry: ο ήλιος εβασίλεψε και το φεγγάρι εχάθη. No one knows for sure how to spell it. Likewise with εθεάθη and εφωράθη, both from καθαρεύουσα.
The aorist of βαίνω was έβην, έβης, έβη..., subjunctive βω, βης, βη..... In its many common compounds, such as ανεβαίνω or κατεβαίνω, it has become ανέβηκα, ανέβηκες, ανέβηκε..., subjunctive ν´ανέβω or ν´ανεβώ, ν´ανέβεις or ν´ανεβείς etc. The impersonal verb συμβαίνει, however, is usually still used in its ancient form (συνέβη), and again, no one knows for sure how to spell it. Same with the subjunctive: να συμβή or να συμβεί; Probably the latter.


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## Helleno File

Thanks Aggele.  I was 75% right with my examples - wrong stress on εθεάθη though! 

It shows that the spelling reform was very effective in standardising most forms but a few variants remain.  It's remarkable how Ancient versions and spellings have persevered - even though they make life hard for foreign learners! I am slowly beginning to grasp some of the language history and continuity through the patient efforts of fellow posters. 

Spelling reform has been discussed in Britain, but not seriously for many years. I think most Brits would campaign against and not comply!


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## ianis

larshgf said:


> But the Greek language is a hard language to learn



...in any age. According to this ranking it is at level four of difficulty for English speakers and there is only one level above. Maybe the exact number of hours estimated would be debatable but at least one does not feel bad about it.


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## larshgf

Thank you Ianis. I will show this to my wife, then she will understand!


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## Helleno File

larshgf said:


> Thank you Ianis. I will show this to my wife, then she will understand!


I know the feeling! 

It's nice to see an official source for this.  I had seen something similar in a book by John Humphries, a recently retired senior British journalist who bought a house in the Peleponnissos.  He quotes the British Government Foreign Office as saying Greek was "difficult".  The american Foreign Service Institute rates Greek as more difficult for _English native speakers _than most other major languages except Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Arabic, the Finno-Ugaritic languages and a few others. That quite surprised me!


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## fdb

Helleno File said:


> Finno-Ugaritic


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## fdb

Obviously, the best way to learn Modern Greek spelling is to learn Ancient Greek. Failing this, a lot of conclusions can be drawn from the spelling of English words of Greek origin. If English has "i" Greek will have "ι", if English has "e" Greek will have "η", if English has "y" Greek will have "υ". And so forth.


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## ianis

larshgf said:


> Thank you Ianis. I will show this to my wife, then she will understand!


You're welcome. If this is of any further help found a documentary called Ελληνική Γλώσσα- Πύλες του Ανεξήγητου where they discuss the health benefits of speaking Greek correctly (I believe it).


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## Perseas

fdb said:


> Obviously, the best way to learn Modern Greek spelling is to learn Ancient Greek.


Or Modern Greek.


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## ianis

fdb said:


> Obviously, the best way to learn Modern Greek spelling is to learn Ancient Greek. Failing this, a lot of conclusions can be drawn from the spelling of English words of Greek origin. If English has "i" Greek will have "ι", if English has "e" Greek will have "η", if English has "y" Greek will have "υ". And so forth.


The problem is that it is easier to learn Modern Greek first so you don't have to learn two systems of pronunciation.


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## ioanell

Αγγελος said:


> (συνέβη), ..., no one knows for sure how to spell it.



Of course, Αγγελος exaggerated here, in order to just show the actual difficulty some people have to spell correctly some words of ancient origin .



fdb said:


> Obviously, the best way to learn Modern Greek spelling is to learn Ancient Greek. Failing this, a lot of conclusions can be drawn from the spelling of English words of Greek origin. If English has "i" Greek will have "ι", if English has "e" Greek will have "η", if English has "y" Greek will have "υ". And so forth.



Useful hints, but I ‘m afraid you can’t always count on them for the correct Greek spelling (orthography). If English has “*e*”, that doesn’t always mean that Greek will have “*η*”. For instance, “economy” can’t be written as “ηκονομία”, and this because the Ancient Greek word “οικονομία” when was borrowed by Latin was transliterated as “oeconomia” and when later passed on to the newer European languages it expelled/lost the initial “o”, giving “économie” in French, “economia” in Spanish and “economy” in English (“*Ö*conomie” in German). The same applies to all later and *modern* words beginning in English and other European languages with “eco-”, like e.g. ecology, which in Greek begin with “οικο-”(<οἶκος=house, home). Accordingly, other words of Greek origin beginning with “ped{o}-”(_not to be confused with Latin -ped{o}_), like e.g.“pedagogy”, (having an analogous story: Greek _παιδαγωγία_>Latin _paedagogia_>Middle French _pédagogie_ >English _pedagogy_), although written with “e” in English (either American English or both British and American), in Greek are written as “παιδ-“(<παῑς,παιδ-ός= child), like e.g. “παιδαγωγία/παιδαγωγική”. Ιf English has "*y*", that doesn’t always mean that Greek will have “*υ*”. Note that all compound words of Ancient (or Koine) Greek origin (or made in modern times with Greek materials to render scientific, humanity or other-field concepts) having the second part in e.g. “-log*y*”, “-graph*y*”, “-soph*y*”, "-nom*y*" etc, in Greek end in “-λογ*ία*”,         “-γραφ*ία*”, “-σοφ*ία*”, "-νομ*ία*" etc respectively.


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