# Русское богатырство



## biok

Can anyone translate the title of this play by Polevoy?  Thanks!


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## Kolan

biok said:


> Can anyone translate the title of this play by Polevoy? Thanks!


Could be "*Russian (Epic) Errant Knighthood*", if that rings the bell.


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## Q-cumber

Kolan said:


> Could be "*Russian (Epic) Errant Knighthood*", if that rings the bell.



I afraid this bell has a crack in its body.   The word богатырство doesn't invole any "knighthood" matters.  It rather relates to those abnormal properties and skills that distinguish богатыри (Russian epic heros) from regualar people. Physical strength (богатырская сила) is the paramount quality of a богатырь.


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## Piotr_WRF

Couldn't you translate _богатырство_ simply as _heroism_?


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## Kolan

Piotr_WRF said:


> Couldn't you translate _богатырство_ simply as _heroism_?


*Heroism* describes _*богатырство*_ only vaguely and deficiently. This word has at least three meanings. One, in the above context (if you read the play by Polevoy) is knighthood (properly Russian), another is a personal physical quality (overwhelming strength, stamina, in original texts - always supernatural), the third would be medieval heroism, heroic character.


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## biok

Thank you so much, Kolan, Q-Cumber and Petr.  I think that Russian Knighthood, with all its cultural inaccuracy, is as close as I can get without distorting the qualities of the title, together with a footnoted explanation.


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## Escogido

> Russian Knighthood, with all its cultural inaccuracy, is as close as I can get without distorting the qualities of the title


 Um, no. Богатырь is a warrior who is endowed by great physical strength. Its lore image is much closer to an epic hero rather than a knight or a noble. The lore on these also predates feudalism in Russia, so I wouldn't choose this analogy, as about the only thing in common is the battle prowess ascribed to Knights and Bogatyrs of lore.


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## biok

Closer to Russian Epic Heroism?


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## Escogido

biok said:


> Closer to Russian Epic Heroism?


Yes, that would be a better analogy, given your context.


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## Kolan

Escogido said:


> Yes, that would be a better analogy, given your context.


The context is the play of Nikolay Polevoy. Heroism is there, of course, but it is not the only point. This play is not just about war or fight. On the other hand, epic heroism is not an exclusive feature of bogatyrs.


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## biok

Thanks for hashing this out, Kolan and Escogido.  It's clear from my searches that it's not a word that gets translated - in English scholarship, it's transliterated and italicized.  Kolan, as the only one who's read the play, how does this look (institution understood here in the sense of "practice" not "organization):
"Russian Bogatyrstvo," Nikolai A. Polevoi 
(footnote) “Bogatyrstvo”, an untranslatable term, refers at once to the institution of Russia’s epic wandering heroes (loosely akin to the Western Europe’s errant knights, but predating Russian chivalry), and to the heroic qualities – including immense physical strength – these heroes were said to possess.


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## Kolan

biok said:


> "Russian Bogatyrstvo," Nikolai A. Polevoi
> (footnote) “Bogatyrstvo”, an untranslatable term, refers at once to the institution of Russia’s epic wandering heroes (loosely akin to the Western Europe’s errant knights, but predating Russian chivalry), and to the heroic qualities – including immense physical strength – these heroes were said to possess.


I guess, it is good. A couple of things not to forget when talking about epic heroes:
- their physical strength, even voice amplitude which could kill, was allegedly supernatural, as well as their battle horse;
- they were engaged not only in battles or fights, their performance at work was also stunning (building bridges, cleaning the mess, healing, etc).
- their exploits were more like those of Hercules, rather than that of European medieval knights, but bogatyrs were mortal.


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## biok

Thanks, Kolan.
"Russian Bogatyrstvo," Nikolai A. Polevoi 
(footnote) “Bogatyrstvo”, a culturally untranslatable term, refers at once to the institution of Russia’s epic wandering heroes (whose characteristics may be loosely described as an admixture of errant knighthood avant la lettre, and ancient mythic heroism) and to the heroic qualities – including supernatural strength – these heroes were said to possess.


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## Kolan

biok said:


> "Russian Bogatyrstvo," Nikolai A. Polevoi
> (footnote) “Bogatyrstvo”, a culturally untranslatable term, refers at once to the institution of Russia’s epic wandering heroes (whose characteristics may be loosely described as an admixture of errant knighthood avant la lettre, and ancient mythic heroism) and to the heroic qualities – including supernatural strength – these heroes were said to possess.


Brilliant!


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## biok

thanks!


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## Q-cumber

> ... it's transliterated and italicized



Good solution!


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## biok

Thanks, Q-Cumber!


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