# Pronunciation of "won't"



## jimquk

In my Southern British English pronunciation, the /o/ of "won't" sounds exactly like the /ol/ of "gold", "old" etc. In other words, as if spelt *woln't.
Etymonline doesn't suggest any such derivation, offering instead a form wynnot, winnot for will not.
Is there perhaps a dialect form *woll, like German wollen, which would account for "woln't"?


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## symposium

I think in German it's "willen", cognate of English "will, willing" etc. Besides, I also think of "shan't" as the contraction of "shall not": it seems that the L-sound, in such cases, has been erased by the N-sound of "not". It is possible, maybe, that in some dialects the L-sound hasn't disappeared altogether, isn't it?


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## Abaye

Isn't it like the difference of "can" vs. the "can" part of "can't" in BE?


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## bandini

I agree with the pronunciation that jimquk offered although I doubt that his British tongue would sound anything like mine!


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## bearded

symposium said:


> I think in German it's "willen"


Actually, in German the verb is _wollen, _and only in the singular there are the forms _will, willst _(cognate of Engl. will).  And if in 'won't/woln't' the -not- part is contracted to -nt-, then an explanation is required concerning the o vowel.  I think that a derivation from the (Saxon) root 'wol' cannot be excluded - but I'd like to read some expert etymologist's opinion.


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## jazyk

Willen is the same verb in Dutch.


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## AndrasBP

Abaye said:


> Isn't it like the difference of "can" vs. the "can" part of "can't" in BE?


There's a vowel change in "d*o*" > "d*o*n't" as well. 
Is it possible that the vowel of "won't" became the same as in "don't" by analogy?
By the way, are there any _nouns _that rhyme with "don't" or "won't"?


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## Olaszinhok

AndrasBP said:


> are there any _nouns _that rhyme with "don't" or "won't"?


wont: Definition of WONT


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## Welsh_Sion

"wont" rhymes with "won't" for me! 

(Crossed with Olaszinhok. Great minds and all that ... !)


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## Ihsiin

jimquk said:


> In my Southern British English pronunciation, the /o/ of "won't" sounds exactly like the /ol/ of "gold", "old" etc. In other words, as if spelt *woln't.



Hang on, do you not pronounce the <l> in 'old' or 'gold'? For me 'won't' and 'old' sound very different.



Olaszinhok said:


> wont: Definition of WONT



I pronounce them differently and they don't rhyme for me.


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## Olaszinhok

Ihsiin said:


> I pronounce them differently and they don't rhyme for me.


That sounds interesting! They rhyme for many dictionaries online and also for Welsh-Sion... I'm pretty curious now, how do you pronounce the word _wont?_ There may be  regional differences?!
WONT | pronuncia di  nei dizionari Cambridge Dictionary


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## AndrasBP

Olaszinhok said:


> That sounds interesting! They rhyme for many dictionaries online and also for Welsh-Sion... I'm pretty curious now, how do you pronounce the word _wont?_ There may be regional differences?!


According to my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, the American pronunciation of _wont _has a long monophthong, rhyming with _taunt_, _haunt _or _gaunt_.


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## merquiades

AndrasBP said:


> According to my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, the American pronunciation of _wont _has a long monophthong, rhyming with _taunt_, _haunt _or _gaunt_.


 No, _wont _is very short.  I pronounce it as if it were written _wunt_.  



> Hang on, do you not pronounce the <l> in 'old' or 'gold'? For me 'won't' and 'old' sound very different.  I pronounce them differently and they don't rhyme for me.


  I second this question.  I would like to know how _woln't_ sounds and how widespread this is?


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## jimquk

I don't pronounce an L in "old", the OL is a diphthong: the O of "top" followed by the OO of "moon", only shorter.

The L is still there, just, in a word like "coal", but with the same diphthong, which is distinct from that of the O in a word like "boat", which I would describe as the U of "cup" followed by OO.

Hope my explanation is clear, I'm sorry I don't have access to IPA on my phone...


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## Delvo

I haven't heard anyone pronounce "won't" as "woln't", but now that I know there are such people, I'm reminded of the fact that I sometimes hear people saying "bolth" for "both". So the "L" in "woln't" doesn't need to have come from the "L" in related forms like "will". There's just something about the way some people pronounce "o" that can infuse an "L" effect after it anyway (at least under some particular conditions such as the following sound being alveolar-to-dental).


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## Ihsiin

Olaszinhok said:


> That sounds interesting! They rhyme for many dictionaries online and also for Welsh-Sion... I'm pretty curious now, how do you pronounce the word _wont?_ There may be  regional differences?!
> WONT | pronuncia di  nei dizionari Cambridge Dictionary



I pronounce _wont_ with a short monophthong, not dissimilarly to _want _but with a slightly more rounded vowel. I pronounce _won't_ if a diphthong. I don't know if this is a regional thing or an idiosyncratic thing - unfortunately the word _wont_ is not much used so it's difficult to judge.



jimquk said:


> I don't pronounce an L in "old", the OL is a diphthong: the O of "top" followed by the OO of "moon", only shorter.
> 
> The L is still there, just, in a word like "coal", but with the same diphthong, which is distinct from that of the O in a word like "boat", which I would describe as the U of "cup" followed by OO.
> 
> Hope my explanation is clear, I'm sorry I don't have access to IPA on my phone...



Interesting. I certainly pronounce the <l> in _old_ etc. When I try to pronounce it the way you've described I feel like I'm doing an Essex accent (or maybe an older Cockney accent).


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## berndf

jimquk said:


> In my Southern British English pronunciation, the /o/ of "won't" sounds exactly like the /ol/ of "gold", "old" etc. In other words, as if spelt *woln't.
> Etymonline doesn't suggest any such derivation, offering instead a form wynnot, winnot for will not.
> Is there perhaps a dialect form *woll, like German wollen, which would account for "woln't"?


If you are from the South of England than you probably pronounce the "dark l" like a vowel, a bit like the _oo_ in _foot_. In other words, you probably don't pronouce the vowel in _won't_ like <ol> in _gold_ but <ol> in _gold_ like the vowel in _won't_. Could that be?


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## jimquk

berndf said:


> If you are from the South of England than you probably pronounce the "dark l" like a vowel, a bit like the _oo_ in _foot_. In other words, you probably don't pronouce the vowel in _won't_ like <ol> in _gold_ but <ol> in _gold_ like the vowel in _won't_. Could that be?



Well, I certainly pronounce them alike, and I can't think of any other word with that sound that doesn't have a graphic L.

As for pronouncing a "dark L", there's certainly a residual consonantal L for me in words like "goal", but not in "gold": /gòwl/ v /gòwd/

Similarly, I might represent "wont" and "won't" as /w^wnt/ and /wòwnt/. (/^/ as the vowel of "cup", /ò/ as the vowel in "top")


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## berndf

Yes, that makes sense. The weakening of the dark l as it is typical for London/Estuary accents is stronger in front of another consonant, as in _gold_, than for a final l, as in_ goal_.


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## jimquk

berndf said:


> Yes, that makes sense. The weakening of the dark l as it is typical for London/Estuary accents is stronger in front of another consonant, as in _gold_, than for a final l, as in_ goal_.


So, any thoughts on "woln't", or is it just an unexplained oddity? It does seem a bit of a coincidence that there is L in the supposed root "will", but then how to explain the O?


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## berndf

jimquk said:


> So, any thoughts on "woln't", or is it just an unexplained oddity? It does seem a bit of a coincidence that there is L in the supposed root "will", ...


In modern pronunciation the <o> in won't is pronounced [oʊ] (or [əʊ] in BrE), which is very close if not the same as you would pronounce <ol>  in _gold_ in London/Estuary accents (compare _Holborn_ = ['həʊbən]). In other accents, there is no such similarity. Historically, there of course was an _l_ in _won't_ but that is completely gone in modern pronunciation.


jimquk said:


> ...but then how to explain the O?


_Won't_ is a contraction of _wonnot_ which is derived from _wol(l) not_. _Wol(l)_ is an obsolete alternative form of _will_.


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## jimquk

berndf said:


> In modern pronunciation the <o> in won't is pronounced [oʊ] (or [əʊ] in BrE), which is very close if not the same as you would pronounce <ol>  in _gold_ in London/Estuary accents (compare _Holborn_ = ['həʊbən]). In other accents, there is no such similarity. Historically, there of course was an _l_ in _won't_ but that is completely gone in modern pronunciation.
> 
> _Won't_ is a contraction of _wonnot_ which is derived from _wol(l) not_. _Wol(l)_ is an obsolete alternative form of _will_.



Thank you. That's what I was looking for, a form "woll", which isn't referenced in etymonline. It seems as if the L survived although not represented in the spelling. Any idea what period the last attestation of "woll" dates from?


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## berndf

jimquk said:


> Thank you. That's what I was looking for, a form "woll", which isn't referenced in etymonline. It seems as if the L survived although not represented in the spelling. Any idea what period the last attestation of "woll" dates from?


No, i don't think it has survived at all. The modern [oʊ] or [əʊ] is a later diphthongization of a long o which resulted from the elision of the l. That this modern diphthong sounds similar to a weakened dark l in Estuary accent is purly accidental.

Here is the entry for _willen_ in the Middle English Dictionary with various attestations with o as a vowel. I think the o was originally mainly past tense (these forms don't exist any more) and then spread into present tense forms but I am not sure. German has forms with i and with o as well: i in present singular indicative and o in all other forms.


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