# Misirlou



## Forero

In reference to the song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou:

Can anyone here tell me about the original tune, especially the part that says "μαγική, ξωτική ομορφιά"?


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## ireney

Forero what exactly are you asking for?


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## kanarini

You want to know about the original tune??
As far as I know there have been discussions on where the song originates from..Here are some of the theories I’ve heard about. Some say it’s a taditional Egyptian song and some claim that it’s a Jewish tune..And some make a synthesis of both ideas saying that it’s in fact a tune composed by one of the Sephardi Jews (the Jews who were expelled from Spain in the 15th century and settled in parts of the Ottoman Empire) who was born in Egypt. And yeap, I’ve just found the name of the probable composer, it is Udi Ibrahim Efendi..If it’s really a Sephardi song it’s quite probable that it might have been composed anywhere under the reign of the Ottoman Empire at that time, Cairo, Salonica or Istanbul..It’s amazing that a guy from the west end of the world owned the melody and made it popular world-wide!
And if the native speakers excuse my boldness, I think the phrase you mentioned means “magical fairy beauty”..am I right?? J


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## Forero

I thought ξωτική was "lively" rather than "fairy", but I'm not Greek.

Anyway, since I can pronounce Greek but may not have much of a chance with pronouncing the non-Indoeuropean lyrics - if there are any - and since I saw these Greek words on the Internet and am fond of Greek already, I would like to learn the tune that goes with these words.

I have heard most of this song, but not with this part included.  I suspect it has a different melody than the rest of the song, so I'm asking if someone can at least describe the tune for the line with these three words in it to me or, if possible, attach a musical file (either musical notation or a playable music file) of at least that part of the song.


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## kanarini

*Forero..you can listen to the song from rapidshare..file no is 23255479/Misirlou - Manolis Aggelopoulos.mp3 (the forum doesn't let me attach the audio file, so I hope you will be able to hear it this way) I'm not sure if it will work this way as I'm totally ignorant of such technological stuff..*

*And hopefully a native speaker will enligten both of us on what ξωτική really means..*


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## Forero

What is the URL I need to use to get to it?  I am not familiar with rapidshare.


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## kanarini

I've just sent you a private message...


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## ireney

Mod note: I am feeling nice right now so I will be unfair and, as long as no one complains, I will leave all these posts un-deleted. HOWEVER, any further posts asking or giving information that is not language related and against the rules of the site in general and this sub-forum in particular WILL be deleted.


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## Spectre scolaire

As the original question was *Misirlou*, I will answer the original question – to the extent that I understand the relevance of the word in the context. I am not able to open the link given by _Forero_, but due to the precious information given by _kanarini_ in #3, I guess the following remarks would be pertinent:

Turk. Mısırlı, “Egyptian” is made up by Mısır, “Egypt” + the suffix _–l*I*_ (with fourfold vowel harmony), adapted to Greek as Μισιρλής, fem. Μισιρλού. The -ού suffix is indigenously Greek, and is used to make feminine forms of adjectives ending in *a*) –ης and *b*) –άς:

*a*) Suff. –ης, fem. -ού​​μαυρομάτης – μαυροματού, “with black eyes”
σγουρομάλλης – σγουρομαλλού, “with curly hair”​*b*) Suff. –άς, fem. -ού​​κοιλαράς – κοιλαρού, “with a big belly”
φωνακλάς – φωνακλού, “who bawls”​- the *b*) category being more common than the *a*) as the feminine forms μαυρομάτα and σγουρομάλλα would probably be more frequent.

But there is a category of words in which the feminine suffix –ού is compulsory, and that is precisely the Mισιρλής type. 

*c*) Suff. –λής, fem. –λού​This is an interesting extension of the –ού suffix in that it always has an –λ-, and the reason is of course that Greek has adopted – _en bloc_ – words containing the Turkish suffix _–l*I*_, and, secondarily, even made it productive. 

Μισιρλής – Μισιρλού (see above)
μερακλής – μερακλού, cf. Turk. meraklı, “curious” (i.e. having _merak_, “curiosity; fancy”, Gr. μεράκι)
παραλής – παραλού, cf. Turk. paralı, “rich” (i.e. having _para_, “money”, Gr. παράς)​As a productive suffix:

κατουρλής – κατουρλού, “who wets his/her pants; afraid”, but also _Kosename_ for a child, cf. the verb κατουρώ, “to urinate”.​One of the most brilliant Greek poets, Κώστας Βάρναλης, was born in Varna (Bulgaria). This suffix is rare without an accent in masc., but a woman from Varna would invariably be Βαρναλού, cf. *c*) – to the extent that this word would be found in written Greek. 




			
				kanarini said:
			
		

> If it’s really a Sephardi song it’s quite probable that it might have been composed anywhere under the reign of the Ottoman Empire at that time, Cairo, Salonica or Istanbul..It’s amazing that a guy from the west end of the world owned the melody and made it popular world-wide!


Not so amazing as it seems, I’d say. The Jewish community in Saloniki thrived for more than 400 years – from the forced exit from Spain until the holocaust. They made up the majority of the population in Saloniki – until the influx of Greek-orthodox refugees from Asia Minor in the late 1920s. The _sefardim_ (cf. Hebrew Sfarad, “Spain”) became as much of an “oriental element” in the Ottoman Empire as the Turks themselves. They had no reason to embrace the Greeks as the latter despised them unconditionally. Every Easter the Jews in Saloniki went into hiding. In the language of the Sefardi Jews of Saloniki, an archaic version of today’s Spanish, there were Turkish loanwords galore. It is only after 1912 (when Saloniki became part of Greece) that this Jewish community had to sit down and learn Greek. To the extent that Jews in Saloniki did speak Greek – the same obtains for Spanish Jews in Istanbul! – it would be due to business relations with Greeks; women generally didn’t. And their Greek would mirror the dialect of Saloniki (which is now lost), a dialect without any impact from Greek linguistic purism. 

To find the word Μισιρλού, a woman with a “μαγική, ξωτική*) ομορφιά” in a song possibly composed by a Jew from Saloniki does not surprise me at all.

*) ξωτικός is nothing but εξωτικός, “exotic”, but the lack of the ε makes the word rather _dialectal_, or in any case _popular_.
 ​


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## kanarini

Ireney, you're absolutely right! Χίλια συγωώμη!! This is going to be my last post in this thread..

Spectre scolaire, thank you so much for elaborating on the word morphologically..such posts make me want to get a print-out! And by the way, I was referring to Tarantino from America as "a guy from the west end of the world"....

smack the grammah, sorry but I won't be able to answer your question! 1. I have no idea. 2. Please read the post right above you..

Forero, PM!!


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## Forero

I'll second karanini.  Thank you, Spectre scolaire.

Do many Greeks pronounce the sigma in Μισιρλού with a zeta-like sound (voiced)?  That would seem to me more like Italian.

What would "fairy" be in Greek?  Or "djinn"?


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## SofiaB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou     here is the direct link to the article,since the first one doesn't work.


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## Spectre scolaire

Thanks, _SofiaB_, but there is not very much you can do - unless you feel like asking Chinese authorities why this link doesn't work! 

(Sometimes I feel like not smiling...)

To _Forero_: You don't voice the /s/ in Greek unless it is in a _sandhi_ position, f.ex. in τους λέω.


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