# Filipino: Does the language exist?



## mandarina_82

If it does, What are its language/idiomatic roots?

Thank you!!!


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## belén

Aquí te paso un link de Wikipedia donde explica los idiomas que se hablan en las Islas Filipinas.
Saludos,
Belén


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## mandarina_82

Wow!! Super interesante!
Gracias Belen


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## Isis

mandarina_82 said:
			
		

> If it does, What are its language/idiomatic roots?
> 
> Thank you!!!


 
Filipino is the National or Official Language of the Republic of the Philippines in the Pacific. It belongs to the Malayo-Polynesian Languages in that area in the Pacific and it has similarities to Bahasa Melayu of Malaysia and Chamorro of Guam.

Words are from different dialects that we do have here in the country but most of the words are from the main dialect which is Tagalog.

Some of the words are adoptions from our CONQUESTADORES (the Spaniards led by Ruy Lopez De Legazpi landed here in the Philippines in 1521 and they became our Mother Country for more than 300 years) before like, "gyera" which means "war" and its an adoption of the Spanish term "guerra" which has the same meaning, and also the word "panyo" which means "hankerchief" - an adoption of the Spanish's "panuello". We also have a dialect here in the country which is called "unconjugated Spanish" - "Chavacano"; the dialect of teh people of Zamboanga City far in the South of the country.

If you have further questions Ms. Mandarina, feel free to ask!


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## mandarina_82

Thank you Isis. So the chavacano is the most similar to Spanish there, Could you tell me a little bit more about it? Why is it not conjugated?

Gracias


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## rob.returns

Please use the search link upper part of this page...and you'll find a lot of info about the language chavacano. 

Thanks! and welcome to the forum.


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## Merlin

rob.returns said:
			
		

> Please use the search link upper part of this page...and you'll find a lot of info about the language chavacano.
> 
> Thanks! and welcome to the forum.


I know my eyes aren't fooling me. But I know mandarina 82 is asking if "Filipino language" exist not chavacano or any other dialects!


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## Samo

Mabuhay,
It is good to see other languages of the Philipines.
My experience is: pilipino is an official designation but everyone calls it  tagalog. many people who speak other languaes sa Cebuno, Bisayas,Chavacano, Ilocano etc. can also speak Tagalog. Are the other ones different languaes i.e. related to Tagalog as Bahasa or just dialects of Tagalog? I think different languages is true.


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## Jhorer Brishti

Does Tagalog or any of the other languages of the Philippines have an indigenous(non-roman,heh) script? If so, is it related to the older scripts of Southeast Asia(Indonesian and Malaysian now use roman I believe) which derived from the Brahmi script, in which case the script would be related to bengali,hindi,etc.
From what I can recall I think Chavacano also rids spanish of the concept of gender and only uses "el"...


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## irene888

dear collegues,

please advise on the following question which seems controversial (i'm trying to discriminate betw, the Tagalog and Filipino within an elecrtonic phrasebook we are going to develop):

 - shall I refer to Tagalog as an ethnicity dialect (with more borrowings from Spanish), and Filipino as the official language (with more borrowings from English rather than from Spanish) which we should stick to ( I mean Filipino). And is it proper to name it in this case - English-Filipino phrasebook.

Or maybe you think that we should stick to the Tagalog norm, as it's more proper to refer to the original Tagalog language. The thing is that the phrasebook we are developing will serve as a tool for travelers and also for those who learn Tagalog. Shall we rather use Spanish words instead is English, like: "seguro" instead of "insurance", etc.?

thanx in advance


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## Cracker Jack

Hi irene. It would be better to refer to Filipino as the official language of the Philippines.  It is like saying Spanish is the official language of Spain and Latin America.

Spanish is derived from Castellano.  Filipino is derived from Tagalog.  I hope this analogy helps you.


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## Outsider

See this earlier thread.


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## redwine

may I refer you to this thread:                        http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=54637&highlight=redwine


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## Chriszinho85

Jhorer Brishti said:
			
		

> Does Tagalog or any of the other languages of the Philippines have an indigenous(non-roman,heh) script? If so, is it related to the older scripts of Southeast Asia(Indonesian and Malaysian now use roman I believe) which derived from the Brahmi script, in which case the script would be related to bengali,hindi,etc.
> From what I can recall I think Chavacano also rids spanish of the concept of gender and only uses "el"...



Yes, they do. It is called Baybayin, and yes, according to this article, they are related to the older scripts of Southeast Asia which derived from the Brahmi script. (Scroll down to "Baybayin.")  You can see what it looks like here.


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## Chriszinho85

mandarina_82 said:
			
		

> Thank you Isis. So the chavacano is the most similar to Spanish there, Could you tell me a little bit more about it? Why is it not conjugated?
> 
> Gracias


 For anyone who wants to read a text in Chabacano, you can read it here.  (the text in quotes.)  It's very interesting.


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## Pivra

Jhorer Brishti said:
			
		

> Does Tagalog or any of the other languages of the Philippines have an indigenous(non-roman,heh) script? If so, is it related to the older scripts of Southeast Asia(Indonesian and Malaysian now use roman I believe) which derived from the Brahmi script, in which case the script would be related to bengali,hindi,etc.
> From what I can recall I think Chavacano also rids spanish of the concept of gender and only uses "el"...


 
Thai uses Brahmi based script but it is different from Begali which based more on Devanagari. Thai is based on southern Indian scripts.... But there are some alphabets that are veru identical to the Devanagari alphabets such as

 M 
Thai= ม   Devanagari= म  

Sh ... as in Rishi
Thai= ษ  Devanagari= ष

V
Thai= ว  Devanagari= व 

We should set up a topic for Sanskrit influenced languages don't u think so...


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## panjabigator

Isis said:
			
		

> Filipino is the National or Official Language of the Republic of the Philippines in the Pacific. It belongs to the Malayo-Polynesian Languages in that area in the Pacific and it has similarities to Bahasa Melayu of Malaysia and Chamorro of Guam.
> 
> Words are from different dialects that we do have here in the country but most of the words are from the main dialect which is Tagalog.
> 
> Some of the words are adoptions from our CONQUESTADORES (the Spaniards led by Ruy Lopez De Legazpi landed here in the Philippines in 1521 and they became our Mother Country for more than 300 years) before like, "gyera" which means "war" and its an adoption of the Spanish term "guerra" which has the same meaning, and also the word "panyo" which means "hankerchief" - an adoption of the Spanish's "panuello". We also have a dialect here in the country which is called "unconjugated Spanish" - "Chavacano"; the dialect of teh people of Zamboanga City far in the South of the country.
> 
> If you have further questions Ms. Mandarina, feel free to ask!



Is it the Muslim population of the Philippines that speak this dialect?  I have heard that they are distinct.


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## Chriszinho85

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Is it the Muslim population of the Philippines that speak this dialect? I have heard that they are distinct.


Hello Panjabigator. You're referring to the Chavacano dialect, right? That is mostly spoken in Zamboanga City in the south. I'm not totally sure, but I think the majority of the population in Zamboanga is catholic. However, since it is in the south, I'm sure there is a considerable Muslim population and they probably can speak Chavacano also. Does this answer your question? If not I found a link here that talks about Muslims in the Philippines.  It says that there are ten cultural subgroups based on language.

Hope this helps.

Chris


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## araceliearambula

hello,

when people referred to the word "gyera" / "guerra" in the spanish creole language of zamboanga, i just wanted to say that the differences in spelling of spanish words in the filipino languages don't mean that the pronounciation of them has changed, or should be changed, nor should they be called "loan words", because the spanish language and culture is a part of the filipino culture, and why would filipinos "loan" words from the spanish language of their ancestors, it's like "loaning" something from a language that already belongs to you and is a part of your filipino culture, the spanish language.

also, please stop referring to the spaniards as our CONQUISTADORES with pride (albeit a subversive pride) like that in capital letters, that was 400 years ago, it's a bit perverse and subversive, and a little S&M, hehe


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## el_conquistador

I think the word "gyera" is commonly used during normal everyday conversation. But usually in a formal setting such as newsreporting in a tv station, a speech by a government official delivered in Filipino, the term commonly used is "digmaan"


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## Qcumber

"Filipino" is the official name of Tagalog when used as the national language of the Philippines simply because the Constitution of the Philippines is written in English, so they have to use the English term to officially refer to it. 

The funny thing is that Filipinos in their great majority have a hard time uttering the sound [f] because it only exists in a handful of Philippine languages, and doesn't exist in the others ... including Tagalog.


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## Qcumber

irene888 said:


> shall I refer to Tagalog as an ethnicity dialect (with more borrowings from Spanish), and Filipino as the official language (with more borrowings from English rather than from Spanish) which we should stick to ( I mean Filipino). And is it proper to name it in this case - English-Filipino phrasebook.


My piece of advice: stick to Tagalog, because "Filipino" is a political concept so has nothing to do with linguistics and lexicography.
All the English and Spanish terms borrowed by Tagalog are exactly the same as those borrowed by Filipinos.
In some provinces where Tagalog is not the native language, some people will be angry when they see your book is called "English-Filipino phrasebook" because there is a strong anti-Filipino movement in the Philippines.


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## Acer_Cyle

panjabigator said:


> Is it the Muslim population of the Philippines that speak this dialect? I have heard that they are distinct.


 

80% of the population del pueblo zamboanga is Catholic, muslims are only minority in the city of Zamboanga!

si quiere tu lee mas algo en Chavacano, favor mira estos mana websito aqui.
if you want to read more in chavacano, pls see all these website here.

chavacano
zamboanga
chavacano @ zamboanga
wikipedia en Chavacano de Zamboanga



Qcumber said:


> My piece of advice: stick to Tagalog, because "Filipino" is a political concept so has nothing to do with linguistics and lexicography.
> All the English and Spanish terms borrowed by Tagalog are exactly the same as those borrowed by Filipinos.
> In some provinces where Tagalog is not the native language, some people will be angry when they see your book is called "English-Filipino phrasebook" because there is a strong anti-Filipino movement in the Philippines.


 

Filipino, is not really the name of the language...
Tagalog is the proper way to call a language... because Filipino is based on Tagalog as the nacional language of the phil's.

here in the phil's. we have atleast 157 languages, excluding the two which are already extinct.


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## epistolario

The last time that my History professor discussed this in College, the term Filipino is supposed to be the national language that has not yet been finalized. Filipino language is not necessarily Tagalog; it is supposedly a conglomeration of vocabularies of the different languages in the Philippines, mostly from Tagalog. Most Filipinos are taught that Tagalog and Filipino can be interchangeable but that is not the original idea of linguistic authorities who proposed the Filipino language as the national language. 

There are at least four propositions on what Filipino grammar and vocabulary are supposed to consist. I remember that there are at least four systems but I doubt that they have already finalized it to date. As far as I can remember, the four include that of University of the Philippines and Ateneo de Manila; the third is from Surian ng Wikang Pambansa, if I'm not mistaken; the fourth, I cannot remember. 

For example, UP uses unibersidad (from Spanish) for the Tagalog word pamantasan (university). On the other hand, Ateneo proposes the adoption of commonly used English words to be spelled using Tagalog system like akawnt (account) which does not look attractive. All of these four systems have slight differences in their propositions. 

To summarize, the word Filipino is still ambiguous as an ideal Philippine language.


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## balasang

^^

Just because 'Pamantasan' exists, it does not mean that Tagalog and Filipino are different. That reasoning is merely a tool to deceive the non-Tagalog natives. But in reality Filipino is merely a dialect of Tagalog because they are perfectly mutually intelligible. And that 'amalgamation of native languages' is false! Why is it that up to present 'Filipino' does not have any specific word for husband and wife, only spouse. Cebuano and Ilocano have these. In Cebuano, bana is husband and asawa is wife. In Ilocano asawa is spouse, baket is wife, lakay is husband. We even have the word Apo in Ilocano which is used to address someone who is very respectable, an eldery, someone who holds high position. But FIlipino has not adopted that at all. You don't hear or read _Si Apo Macapagal/presidente but si pangulong Macapagal..._ Why is Filipino using disierto rather than let-ang(Ilocano)?

Other than that, we use a lot of Spanish and English loan words in Ilocano! eskwelaan, estudiante, usar, asukar, la mesaan, tv, ref, computer but we don't call it  _amianan language _but Ilocano. Even the Igorots have their own variant of Ilocano but it's still Ilocano! 

You see, the Filipino grammar is the Tagalog grammar. A native Tagalog speaker needs to learn the Ilocano or Cebuano grammar in able to understand these languages but a native Tagalog speaker does not need to study the Filipino grammar in able to understand Filipino.

And besides, many of these 'native-sounding words' aren't really native Tagalog words(pamantasan, salumpuwit, mag-aaral, paaralan) but _forcedly_ coined words form the post-war years(60's to 70's) in able to eradicate Western influences! How silly is that! Pamantasans and paaralans did not exist before the Spanish acquisition of the islands so how would these words be in existence when these 'schools' never existed before the Spaniards set foot in our islands.

Filipino is NOT ambiguous, it is DECEPTIVE.


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## Acer_Cyle

panjabigator said:


> Is it the Muslim population of the Philippines that speak this dialect? I have heard that they are distinct.


 

NO! Zamboangueño Speakers (Chavacano de Zamboanga) are all Catholics! Why? It's very obvious that our language was born when Real Fuerza de Nuestra Señoa la Virgen del Pilar de Zaragosa was built on 1635.  And this is the day is also known as the "Dia de Los Chavacanos de Zamboanga, meaning we're Christians.
Thus, during 1600's, Zamboanga City is the only Catholic City in the entire Predominant Muslims Region of Mindanao and Sulu. But today, MIndanaoans are 70% Christians, 25% are Muslims 5% non-Christian & non-Muslims.


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## Acer_Cyle

Cracker Jack said:


> Hi irene. It would be better to refer to Filipino as the official language of the Philippines. It is like saying Spanish is the official language of Spain and Latin America.
> 
> Spanish is derived from Castellano. Filipino is derived from Tagalog. I hope this analogy helps you.


 

I think not "derived" is proper word but "base." Filipino base on Tagalog as the official language of the Philippines. Thus, it's errouneous to say "Filipino language" but it's right to say "Filipino Languages" because this is mean all the +/-156 Languages and Dialects.


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