# about "need"



## newpornography

Hello, I am researching the many faces of "need" in Romance, and would really appreciate some data on Portuguese.  I've read that "need" in Portuguese is most often expressed with the verb "precisar", but I've also seen something similar to Spanish: "necessitar", except it's usually "necessitar de".  Do these mean the same thing?

French has "avoir besoin", which would correspond with English "have need"; Italian also has avere bisogno, but Spanish does not have "tener necesidad" (at least, it's not very common).  Does Portuguese have something like this?  ("ter necessidade??")

Finally, Italian has an impersonal verb "bisognare", and Romanian "a trebui" - does Portuguese have an impersonal (no subject) way of expressing need?  Like, for example, in Italian you can say "bisogna cantare" which means "it-is-necessary to-sing".  As Spanish does not have an equivalent (as far as I know), I can't look it up in wordreference's Spanish -> Portuguese dictionary.. 

Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Vanda

newpornography said:


> "necessitar", except it's usually "necessitar de".  Do these mean the same thing?
> Need means _precisar= necessitar= ter necessidade= carecer _as well.
> 
> French has "avoir besoin", which would correspond with English "have need"; Italian also has avere bisogno, but Spanish does not have "tener necesidad" (at least, it's not very common).  Does Portuguese have something like this?  ("ter necessidade??")  Exactly = ter necessidade
> 
> Finally, Italian has an impersonal verb "bisognare", and Romanian "a trebui" - does Portuguese have an impersonal (no subject) way of expressing need?  Like, for example, in Italian you can say "bisogna cantare" which means "it-is-necessary to-sing".
> We can say: é necessário/é preciso...


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## almufadado

"I need you !" -> (eu) Preciso de ti !
"I need to go now !" -> (eu) Tenho de ir !
"I need more rope !" -> (eu) Dá-me mais corda ! (preciso de)
"I dont need the hassle  !" -> (eu) Não quero chatices !"
 !" -> (eu)
"I dont need that !" -> (eu) Não tenho necessidade disso ! = Não necessito disso !
"The need (necessity ) is the mother of all inventions!" -> A necessidade é a mãe de todas as invenções!
"You have fulfilled all my needs !" -> Tu preencheste todos os meus desejos ! = Satisfizestes todas as minhas necessidades ! = Encheste-me as medidas ! (popular ) 
"


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## Denis555

newpornography said:


> Finally, Italian has an impersonal verb "bisognare", and Romanian "a trebui" - does Portuguese have an impersonal (no subject) way of expressing need? Like, for example, in Italian you can say "bisogna cantare" which means "it-is-necessary to-sing". As Spanish does not have an equivalent (as far as I know), I can't look it up in wordreference's Spanish -> Portuguese dictionary..


 
It is necessary to sing = É necessário cantar or É preciso cantar.

You can also have a look at the English-Portuguese WR dictionary.

And the English-Portuguese Michaelis dictionary.

And in other languages.


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## almufadado

We have the "infinitivo"/infinitive , a verb  conjugation to express either the time indefiniteness or almost impersonal (only the I, You, He conjugations).  

"To sing one must have a good voice" -> _"*Para cantar*_(todos) precisa-se de ter boa voz" 

The gerund also can be used to generalize an action, movement.

"By trailing this road that will lead us nowhere, the economy..." -> Indo (ir) por /seguindo (seguir) por /trilhando (trilhar) este caminho  que não leva a lado nenhum, a economia..."

Other action verbs only applicable to non personal/not depending on human action. :

To Rain -> Chover - Está chovendo ! Está a chover ! (I certainly do not rain :smile: )
To thunder -> Trovejar - Está trovejando ! - Troveja !

It's the similar to English and the same as romanic languages.


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## robbie_SWE

newpornography said:


> Hello, I am researching the many faces of "need" in Romance, and would really appreciate some data on Portuguese. I've read that "need" in Portuguese is most often expressed with the verb "precisar", but I've also seen something similar to Spanish: "necessitar", except it's usually "necessitar de". Do these mean the same thing?
> 
> French has "avoir besoin", which would correspond with English "have need"; Italian also has avere bisogno, but Spanish does not have "tener necesidad" (at least, it's not very common). Does Portuguese have something like this? ("ter necessidade??")
> 
> Finally, Italian has an impersonal verb "bisognare", and Romanian "a trebui" - does Portuguese have an impersonal (no subject) way of expressing need? Like, for example, in Italian you can say "bisogna cantare" which means "it-is-necessary to-sing". As Spanish does not have an equivalent (as far as I know), I can't look it up in wordreference's Spanish -> Portuguese dictionary..
> 
> Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated!


 
Romanian has also besides the verb _a trebui_, the verbs *a necesita *and *a nevoi*. 

The equivalent of "have need" in Romanian is "*a avea nevoie*_"_, so it works the same as in Italian_._ 

Hope this gave further insight!


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## newpornography

robbie_SWE said:


> Romanian has also besides the verb _a trebui_, the verbs *a necesita *and *a nevoi*.
> 
> The equivalent of "have need" in Romanian is "*a avea nevoie*_"_, so it works the same as in Italian_._
> 
> Hope this gave further insight!



Oh, wow... that's interesting.  What do "a necesita" and "a nevoi" mean?


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## robbie_SWE

newpornography said:


> Oh, wow... that's interesting. What do "a necesita" and "a nevoi" mean?


 
*A necesita* is more uncommon; it is used like the Spanish _necesitar_ or the French _nécessiter _and means "to need" (but stronger) (N.B. strangely enough it only works in the third person). 

*A nevoi* is closer to *a trebui*, meaning "to need" (still in my opinion stronger than _a trebui_). 

 robbie


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## newpornography

So, regarding Portuguese...
Is "necessitar" transitive?  From what I can see, it seems to always need to be followed by "de":

"necessito de ajuda"
"necessito de ir"

Precisar, on the other hand, doesn't need "de" if it's followed by an infinitive:

"preciso ir"

But it still needs "de" with nouns:

"preciso de ajuda"

Is this right?  Are there exceptions?


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## Guigo

newpornography said:


> So, regarding Portuguese...
> Is "necessitar" transitive? From what I can see, it seems to always need to be followed by "de":
> 
> "necessito de ajuda"
> "necessito de ir"
> 
> Precisar, on the other hand, doesn't need "de" if it's followed by an infinitive:
> 
> "preciso ir"
> 
> But it still needs "de" with nouns:
> 
> "preciso de ajuda"
> 
> Is this right? Are there exceptions?


 
I may say: "necessito ajuda" or "preciso ajuda".


According to *Houaiss*:

- precisar: transitivo direto e transitivo indireto 
- necessitar: transitivo direto, transitivo indireto e intransitivo
- carecer: transitivo indireto_ (tendo como complemento v. no infinitivo, dispensa a preposição)_.


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## newpornography

Ah, wow.  This is confusing.  What does "necesito de ajuda" mean, then?  On google, "eu preciso de ajuda" brings twice as many hits as "eu preciso ajuda."  Is there a meaning difference between the two?  (Does "de ajuda" mean "some help" or something?)


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## Guigo

In the colloquial language, I see no difference between "preciso de ajuda" or "preciso ajuda". However, in this case, the absence of the preposition sounds a bit more _sophisticated_.

But look out: 
preciso de vocês  preciso vocês 
preciso de ti  preciso-te (_maybe archaic or used in a poetic sense_).

All languages have their traps, my friend!


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## Denis555

newpornography said:


> So, regarding Portuguese...
> Is "necessitar" transitive? From what I can see, it seems to always need to be followed by "de":
> 
> "necessito de ajuda"
> "necessito de ir"  (in Brazil) > "necessito ir"
> 
> Precisar, on the other hand, doesn't need "de" if it's followed by an infinitive:
> 
> "preciso ir"
> 
> But it still needs "de" with nouns:
> 
> "preciso de ajuda"
> 
> Is this right? Are there exceptions?


 
BUT in Portugal "de" is used even with infinitives:
Preciso de ir.
Necessito de ir.


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## Vanda

Necessitar de ajuda: necessitar como transitivo indireto no sentido de carecer, precisar.
Aurélio: _necessitar - V. t. i. -    Carecer, precisar_
_ "adormecia contente, feliz por ter ao pé de si um desgraçado que necessitava do seu consolo."  (Alphonsus de Guimaraens, Obra Completa, p. 397)._


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## cuchuflete

As a slightly off-topic aside, Spanish does have an equivalent: hacer falta.


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## newpornography

Wow, this is all really confusing.  So, according to Houaiss, _precisar _and _necessitar _are transitive... Houaiss is Brazilian?  

So, it looks like they're transitive in Brazilian - thus, necessito ajuda works in Brazilia, but in the Portuguese of Portugal, it appears to be intransitive in that it requires a preposition to have an object.  Or is this what's called "transitive indirect?"


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## Guigo

newpornography said:


> Wow, this is all really confusing. So, according to Houaiss, _precisar _and _necessitar _are transitive... Houaiss is Brazilian?
> 
> So, it looks like they're transitive in Brazilian - thus, necessito ajuda works in Brazilia, but in the Portuguese of Portugal, it appears to be intransitive in that it requires a preposition to have an object. Or is this what's called "transitive indirect?"


 
Sorry, buddy... we normally refer to the very known Portuguese dictionaries by the name of his/her main supervisor: Houaiss, Aulete, Aurélio, Michaelis, etc. The late Antonio Houaiss was a Brazilian writer and lexicographer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B4nio_Houaiss


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