# 我深深的脑海里



## dojibear

Popular singer Wanting (曲婉婷) starts the chorus of her hit song  我的歌声里 with the line 你存在 我深深的脑海里. I translate this line as "You exist in the depths of my mind", or maybe "You exist in a place that is deep in my mind".

I like the metaphor of using 'deep' (深)with 'brain ocean' (脑海).  Is this 'deep' metaphor common in Mandarin? Or did Wanting invented it for the song? Is 脑海 a common word for "mind"? 

In English, "surface thoughts" and "deep thoughts" and "in the depths of my mind" are common phrases.


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## Skatinginbc

腦: (1) brain, (2) mind (a set of cognitive faculties including memory 記憶 and thinking 思想).
海: (1) large vessel that holds liquid (e.g., 酒海 'a large wine vessel', 墨海 'a large ink vessel'), (2) sea
腦海: (1) literally "brain vessel", referring to _brain ventricles_ (髓海) that produce and hold _cerebrospinal fluid_ (腦髓).  (2) figuratively "mind sea", referring to memory or thoughts vast and fluid as a sea (主管記憶、知覺、思想等的腦部，因其廣泛如海，故稱為「腦海」).


dojibear said:


> Is this 'deep' metaphor common in Mandarin?


Yes.


dojibear said:


> did Wanting invented it for the song?


No.  The expression 腦海 has perhaps been overused to the point of losing its original effect (e.g., freshness, vividity).


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## SimonTsai

I am here just to add that normally, unless in lyrics, 在我腦海深處 works better than 在我深深的腦海裡.

And personally, I prefer 在我內心深處:

其實一直以來，我都知道：在我內心深處，住著一位女孩，孤獨的女孩，被囚於男孩的身，徬徨、無助。​


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## Skatinginbc

"In the depths of one's mind" (在腦海深處) is often used to describe something that has been "buried" 埋 or "hidden" 藏 (i.e., not been thought about or remembered) for a very long time.

在深深的腦海裡, on the other hand, often describes a memory etched (銘刻) deep in one's mind or deep-rooted in one's mind--something one can never forget.


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## SimonTsai

@Skatinginbc, I cannot come up with a case in which I would say 在深深的腦海裡. Would you be kind enough to help me?

By the way, it seems that the song 我的歌聲裡 is far more popular than I imagined. (I am a 20-year-old who didn't know who 曲婉婷 is.)


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## Skatinginbc

不需要刻意的提醒，你都会出现在我深深的脑海里，无时无刻...

the depths of my mind, the deep recesses of my mind 腦海深處 ==> The head noun is 深處 (depths/deep recesses).
深深的腦海 ==> The head noun is 腦海 (mind).


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## SimonTsai

For me, usually, 在深海裡 equates to 在大海的深處.


Skatinginbc said:


> "In the depths of one's mind" (在腦海深處)


Now that you claim that there exists a difference, how would you translate 在深深的腦海裡?


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## retrogradedwithwind

深海 is a normal word，and 深深的海 is ok too. So深深的脑海 is acceptable.


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## Skatinginbc

I don't think it is "depths" 深處 (situated far down from a surface) as in 大海深處 "in the depths of the ocean".  I think it is the "deep" 深深 (deeply etched, long-lasting, deeply felt, profound, intense) as in 深深的記憶 "a deeply etched memory".

存在深深的腦海裡  is similar to 存在深深的記憶中

深深的: (1) deeply etched, long-lasting (e.g., 深深的印象 "a deep impression", a strong impression that has a long-lasting effect or influence = 深刻的印象 literally "a deeply etched impression"), (2) deeply felt, heartfelt/sincere, profound (深深的思考"deep thought"), strong and intense (深深的悔意 "deep regret", 深深的哀愁 "deep sorrow", 深深的感情 "deep affections", 深深的印象 "a deep impression" = 濃密強烈的印象 "strong and intense impression").

As I said:


Skatinginbc said:


> 在深深的腦海裡 often describes a memory etched (銘刻) deep in one's mind or deep-rooted in one's mind--something one can never forget.


deeply etched, long-lasting, deeply felt, profound, intense


SimonTsai said:


> how would you translate 在深深的腦海裡?


I already gave my suggestion in another thread, that is, "deep in my mind".
Somebody also gave the same suggestion in this site: 你存在我深深的脑海里, 我的梦里，我的心里，我的歌声里 You exist, deep in my mind, in my dreams, in my heart, and in my song.

My point: It is not about "surface vs. depths".  你存在我深深的腦海裡 is NOT the opposite of 你的身影時時浮上(float on the surface)我的腦海.


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## SimonTsai

Skatinginbc said:


> 你存在我深深的脑海里, in which 我深深的 is an adjective.


在我深層的 (adjective) 思考裡 deeply etched (adjectival) thinking 
在我深刻的 (adjective) 回憶裡 deeply etched (adjectival) memories  [Google n-gram]
在我深深的 (adjective) 腦海裡 deeply etched (adverbial). in my mind 


> "In the depths of one's mind" (在腦海深處) is often used to describe something that has [...] not been thought about or remembered for a very long time.


I agree. But something in the depths of your mind may be etched in your mind. Hence the line is, for me, a little ambiguous.


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> 在我深深的 (adjective) 腦海裡
> deep  (adverbial). in my mind


我深刻的脑海里，记着着夏枫问我的话。
直至现在还在人们深刻的脑海中
发生在深刻的脑海之中
一个美丽的景象，会一直留在你深刻的脑海中
只將此景留在深刻的腦海中
六合夜市對於我來說一直都存在深刻的腦海裡
立刻出現在我深刻的腦海中
三年絢麗的回憶存在你我最深刻的腦海中

How would you translate 在我深刻的(adjective)腦海裡 into English?  Well, "in my deeply etched mind" does not sound good in English.  I would translate it as "deep in my mind" instead.  The same rationale applies to 深深的腦海.

深深的腦海裡 has none of the following connotations:
(1) imperceptible: "If you desire to place it _in the depths of your mind_, it needs to be invisible."
(2) unconscious: "You are exploring what it is to be found _in the depths of your mind_ – the unconscious."
(3) buried and hidden: You don't have to go digging for it _in the depths of your mind_.
(4) elusive: "whatever you meant to find _in the depths _(_of your mind_), whatever plans you had for that elusive essence, you haven’t found it."

腦海 in 深深的腦海 refers to such mental faculties as 記憶、知覺、思想.  深深的記憶 is not a memory deep beneath a surface or "_subconscious_" 下意識/潛意識  (= _sub_ "under, beneath" + _conscious_ "knowing, aware of"), 而是刻鏤深入、難以忘懷的 "深刻的記憶".  同樣地, "深深的感覺"不是埋在下意識的感覺, "深深的思念"也不是埋在下意識的思念.  "深" 是程度上 (degree of intensity) 的"深" (as in 一往情深, 深藍色), 不是距離表面很遠的 "深" (as in 深海, 深淵).


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## SimonTsai

深刻的回憶 (uncountable) ==> 回憶 (uncountable) 被深深刻入某處 
深刻的印象 (uncountable) ==> 印象 (uncountable) 被深深刻入某處 
深刻的腦海 (uncountable) ==> 腦海 (uncountable) 被深深刻入某處 

某處 = soul/heart/mind/memory (uncountable)


> 看到這兩張照片，我才知道為什麼在我記憶裏，只要提到 [...] 的名字，你們兒時的樣子就立刻出現在我深刻的 (adjectival) 腦海 (nounal)。


看到這兩張照片，我才明白為甚麼：你們兒時的樣子，那樣深刻地存在於 (verbal) 我的腦海 (complemental)；別人一說，我便憶起。


> 我深刻的 (adjectivial) 脑海 (nounal) 里，记着着夏枫问我的话。


當時夏楓問我的話，深深刻入 (verbal) 我的腦海 (complemental)。


> 直至现在还在人们深刻的 (adjectival) 脑海 (nounal) 中


直到現在，仍深刻地存在於 (verbal) 人們的腦海 (complemental)。


> 冥王星能量带来的蜕变发生在深刻的脑海之中，天象蝶变。


The sentence bemuses and bewilders me.


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> 腦海 (uncountable)


邱各容《臺灣近代兒童文學史》哭泣聲呀,又好像怒濤一樣地,重新湧現於我這小小的一個腦海裡.
鄒文豪《中國頂級CEO經典語錄全集》現在整個地球就像_一_個腦海.
《查查在線詞典》世間的所有智慧豈能僅存于一個腦海中.


SimonTsai said:


> 深刻的腦海 ==> 腦海被深深刻入某處


細雕的墨海 (精雕細琢的盆狀大硯臺) ==> By your logic, 墨海被細細雕入某處 .
墨海有細雕的圖像 ==> 細雕的墨海
腦海有深刻的印象 ==> 深刻的腦海


SimonTsai said:


> soul/heart/mind/memory (uncountable)


They can be countable (e.g., "in my mind" vs. "in their minds").


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## humvee

My two cents, "You are deep down in my mind" is better.


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## Broccolee

你好：
“深深的脑海里”这句话非常自然，常见。
脑海=mind

Broccolee


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## SimonTsai

Skatinginbc said:


> Well, "in my deeply etched mind" does not sound good in English.


Sure. While 'deeply etched memories' may be accepted, 'deeply etched mind' is certainly odd.


Skatinginbc said:


> They can be countable (e.g., "in my mind" vs. "in their minds").


Oops! You are right.

I was just trying to distinguish
the 'memory' in 'a deeply etched memory' from
the 'memory' in 'something etched in my memory'.​


> 《查查在線詞典》世間的所有智慧豈能僅存于一個腦海中。


I might say, '世間的智慧，豈能僅存於一個人的大腦'.


> 《臺灣近代兒童文學史》哭泣聲呀，又好像怒濤一樣地，重新湧現於我這小小的一個腦海。


I sincerely do not see much reason why 一個 is used.


> 《中國頂級CEO經典語錄全集》我們每個人的腦海就像一個互聯網，現在整個地球就像一個腦海，互聯網差不多是人類的神經中樞系統。


The sentence is intelligible yet perfunctorily written.

I might say, '我們每個人就像神經元，集結成大腦；資訊透過互聯網，在世界各地間傳遞'.


> 墨海有細雕的圖像


細雕 by itself is not something that I am familiar with. Both 精雕細琢 and 精雕細塑 work.

精 (ㄐㄧㄥ) 雕, when standing alone, may make me think of 金 (ㄐㄧㄣ) 雕.


> 細雕的墨海


Personally, I am more inclined to say 雕刻精細的墨海.



> 墨海有細雕的圖像 ==> 細雕的墨海
> 腦海有深刻的印象 ==> 深刻的腦海


這是件精雕細琢的藝術品。==> 這是件*經*精雕細琢的藝術品。
至今仍在人們深刻的腦海。==> 至今仍在人們*經*深刻的腦海。


Skatinginbc said:


> 海: (1) large vessel that holds liquid, (2) sea.


從此，每當清晨的陽光透過窗戶，你的金髮、你的眉目便浮現我的腦海。==> definition (2)
在我腦海幽深處，你住著，與你的點點滴滴住著。==> definition (2)
妳的一顰一笑，都深深地刻入我的腦海。==> definition (1)
你存在 (於) 我深深的腦海。==> definition (2)


Skatinginbc said:


> I already gave my suggestion in another thread, that is, "deep in my mind".


I am not sure how English natives would interpret the translation. Could you please share with us your opinion, @dojibear?



> my point: It is not about "surface vs. depths". 你存在我深深的腦海裡 is NOT the opposite of 你的身影時時浮上 (float on the surface) 我的腦海.


For me, the line was supposed but failed to mean that you are a part of me, or that you are etched in my mind.


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## NewAmerica

dojibear said:


> Popular singer Wanting (曲婉婷) starts the chorus of her hit song  我的歌声里 with the line 你存在 我深深的脑海里. I translate this line as "You exist in the depths of my mind", or maybe "You exist in a place that is deep in my mind".



   Good job, Dojibear.




dojibear said:


> I like the metaphor of using 'deep' (深)with 'brain ocean' (脑海).  Is this 'deep' metaphor common in Mandarin? Or did Wanting invented it for the song? Is 脑海 a common word for "mind"?



_Is this 'deep' metaphor common in Mandarin?_ Yes. It is very common in modern Chinese language.

_Or did Wanting invented it for the song?_ No. She learned it from her primary school and used it in her song.  I think the real inventor lived almost one hundred years ago.

   Is 脑海 a common word for "mind"? Um... yes. But this question of yours is too special to answer directly. On the one hand, 脑海 is an extremely common word in Mandarin, on the other hand, you are trying to equal the Chinese phrase to an English word, which we native speakers don't know enough of its definition. If your "mind" referred to "the part in a conscious being that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc."(WRF), then it is basically a "yes" to your question.

PS. I haven't read others' replies to this thread.


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## Skatinginbc

"_In the depths of my mind_" is pretty much an idiom, that is, a FIXED expression.  It is strongly associated with something (e.g., memory, thought, mental image) hard to discover (e.g., inaccessible to other people) or not very active in the conscious level (e.g., not having been consciously thought about for a long time; having been repressed (buried/hidden) from consciousness).

"_Deep in my mind_", on the other hand, can apply to a wider range of contexts, including those that describe something (e.g., memory, thought, mental image) profound, long-lasting, or unforgettable (難以忘懷), even in the conscious level. For example:
"I can vividly recall every personal moment we had together, they were the best moments I have ever had in my life, and they will forever be engraved deep in my mind and heart."

"You cast a spell on my life. You got deep in my mind. It was love at first sight. Oh lets end this game tonight."

"All is lost, survival is all that remains.  Dying at will, there is no pain.  Memories of hate run deep in my mind.  Body's numb, no feelings toward mankind."

_You exist in the depths_ (of my mind) ==> The head noun (or emphasis) is "depths" 深處.
_You exist_ (deep) _in my mind_ ==> The head noun (or emphasis) is "mind".
你存在我(深深的)脑海里 ==> The head noun (or emphasis) is "mind" 脑海.

Sperm whales live _deep in the ocean _and regularly surface to breathe.
You live _deep in my mind_ and frequently surface to my consciousness.

The northern stargazer (_Astroscopus guttatus_) lives _in the depths of the ocean_, usually hiding in the sandy bottoms.
You live _in the depths of my mind_, often hidden from my consciousness.

The ningen (an antarctic cryptid) lives _in the depths of the ocean_, difficult to find.
You live _in the depths of my mind_, difficult for others to discover.


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> 你存在我(深深的)脑海里



    Can it be translated into "You live in my deep heart"?

       The _deep heart_ version sounds pleasantly neat to me.


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## Skatinginbc

"_You live deep in my heart_" sounds better than "_You live in my deep heart_".  Also, "_heart_" (emotional attachment, e.g., 愛你, 要你) is not quite the same as "_mind_" (mental attachment, e.g., 想著你, 記著你).


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## NewAmerica

历史上曾认为心（灵）是意识的源泉。＂用心思考＂远比＂用脑思考＂普及。

Plus, the OP's song is emotional.


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## SimonTsai

I prefer 'mind' over 'heart' there.


dojibear said:


> Is this 'deep' metaphor common in Mandarin? Is 脑海 a common word for "mind"?


By the way, here is an expression that you may find intriguing:

志村團藏，火之國的鷹派，暗部的領袖，城府深而野心大。將一生奉獻予木葉；與第三代火影猿飛日斬雖相對立，實則為光與影，相知相惜。​城: a castle or a town, with walls or moats.
府: a storehouse, typically for valuables.

城府深 nowadays often means being astute, and perhaps calculating or even crafty.


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## dojibear

NewAmerica said:


> Can it be translated into "You live in my deep heart"?



The whole chorus is this sentence repeated twice:

你存在
我深深的腦海裡
我的夢裡 我的心裡 我的歌聲裡

It appears that 深深 applies to 腦海裡 but not to 心裡. 

But I think the words are chosen to match the music, not to match the meaning. 深深 adds 2 syllables where the song needs 2 syllables, and makes sense. It does not need to have a precise meaning. 

The plot of the song is this: she met a wonderful person, then he disappeared. So the meaning of this chorus is "You are *still here *in my thoughts, in my dreams, in my heart, and in my song."


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## NewAmerica

dojibear said:


> It appears that 深深 applies to 腦海裡 but not to 心裡.



  Chinese Language has a time-honored tradition of using 心 as the organ of thinking. Here's the authoritative definition:



> *心：习惯上指思想的器官*和思想情况



   So 心 = 脑 in Mandarin in most of cases, very different to English (in which heart refers to feelings, rather than the organ of mind and thoughts (思想情况)).


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> 心 = 脑 in Mandarin in most of cases


But in this context (在我深深的腦海裡, 我的夢裡, 我的心裡), 心 ≠ 腦.  And in English, "heart" ≠ "brain" (mind).  I don't see a good reason to stray from the context and muddy the water here.


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## SimonTsai

At first glance, I may agree with @NewAmerica that usually, in Mandarin, 心 and 腦 are indistinguishable. But thinking of the following, I change my mind:

浮現腦海 / 浮上心頭​


dojibear said:


> It appears that 深深 applies to 腦海裡 but not to 心裡.


And I have no problem with your point, given the structure of the line of lyrics:

subject....... = 你
verb........... = 存在
complement = W 裡、 X 裡、Y 裡、 Z 裡。

W = 我深深的腦海; X = 我的夢; Y = 我的心; Z = 我的歌聲​
(However, note that there is an idiom: 刻骨銘心.)


> "You are still here in my thoughts, in my dreams, in my heart, and in my song."


I have a liking for this.


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> But in this context (在我深深的腦海裡, 我的夢裡, 我的心裡), 心 ≠ 腦.  And in English, "heart" ≠ "brain" (mind).  I don't see a good reason to stray from the context and muddy the water here.



说得不错。但是"在我深深的腦海裡"说的就是“在我的心（灵）深处。”


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> "在我深深的腦海裡"说的就是“在我的心（灵）深处。”


No, not "_in the depths of my soul_" 在我心灵深处.


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## dojibear

NewAmerica said:


> Chinese Language has a time-honored tradition of using 心 as the organ of thinking.



The songwriter (曲婉婷) grew up in Harbin, China. She moved to Canada at age 16 and attended college in English. Her first album (with this song in it) was 12 years later, and has 6 songs in English and 6 songs in Chinese. Maybe speaking English for 12 years affected her choice of Chinese idioms.


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## Skatinginbc

Hello Dojibear,

I hope you are not misled into thinking that 心 symbolizing the center of affections and emotions is a product of Western influence (from English).  As a matter of fact, 心 in Chinese can represent many things, including but not limited to (1) 思想, (2) 感情, or (3) both. What it truly represents depends on the context.  Far back to the Warring States Period, Mencius (孟子) already associated 心 with such feelings as "sympathy" (惻隱之心), "shame" (羞惡之心), and "respect" (恭敬之心).  The feeling of sorrow is called 悲心 (e.g., 三國魏．曹植《雜詩六首》烈士多悲心).  The feeling or emotion of interest is called 心腸 (e.g., 《醒世恆言》嚇得知縣已是六神無主，還有甚心腸去吃酒;《紅樓夢》無精打彩的，那裡還有心腸去看戲).  And there are so many more that I don't even want to mention--If I do, I'm afraid there will be no end.


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## SimonTsai

Skatinginbc said:


> 心 in Chinese can represent many things, including [...] (1) 思想 [and] (2) 感情. What it truly represents depends on the context.


I agree.


> 烈士多悲心 [...] 還有甚心腸去吃酒


I am here just to add that such usages are becoming rare (if not extinct).

EDIT (after post #32):
I am so afraid that someone may get irritated or upset that I have to make myself crystal clear: I was saying that 悲心 is an uncommon word, and that 心腸 is decreasingly used that way. Nowadays, usually, 心腸 could be roughly understood as 'heart':

Joseph 這人心腸很好。 // Joseph 這人心腸很白。
==> Joseph has a heart of gold.
Simon 這人心腸很壞。 // Simon 這人心腸很黑。
==> Simon is black-hearted.​


> [t]he feeling or emotion of interest


Today most people would say 心情, I believe. But note that the meaning of 心情 also depends upon context.


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## Skatinginbc

Context: 李天命《哲道行者》有腦無心者, 不解情, 有心無腦者, 浪費情.
In this context, 腦 ≠ 心.  Period!


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> No, not "_in the depths of my soul_" 在我心灵深处.



那我换个说法："在我深深的腦海裡"说的就是“在我的内心深处。”

看你还怎么用 soul 来救急。



dojibear said:


> The songwriter (曲婉婷) grew up in Harbin, China. She moved to Canada at age 16 and attended college in English. Her first album (with this song in it) was 12 years later, and has 6 songs in English and 6 songs in Chinese. Maybe speaking English for 12 years affected her choice of Chinese idioms.



 She has used 脑海 correctly. I quoted the mainstream definition of 心 to try to expand your vision of Mandarin.


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