# Etymology: Latin nunc and German nun



## Doktor Faustus

Curious, German do have the word "nun" exactly for "now". Is it related with Latin?


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## Flaminius

Hello doctor,

Interesting question.  But I am afraid the Latin forum may not be the best place for an etymology discussion involving Latin and German.

Let me move this thread to Etymology and History of Languages forum.


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## Frank06

Hi,

Both Latin _nunc_ and German _nun_ go back to the same Proto-Indo-European stem _*nu_. This word can be found back in other IE languages branches as well: Gothic, Old Norse, Old English, Hittite, Old Irish, Tocharian, etc.
In the German word _nu*n*_ the final -n is explained as an anology to other adverbs of time such as _wenn_ and _dann_.

I hope this helps.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## palomnik

_Nu _occurs in Russian, in pretty much the same distribution as German _nun _when used as an interjection.  It's not used as an adverb, however.  This would seem to provide support to the Proto IE assumption.


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## Maroseika

palomnik said:


> _Nu _occurs in Russian, in pretty much the same distribution as German _nun _when used as an interjection. It's not used as an adverb, however. This would seem to provide support to the Proto IE assumption.


Russian *ну* is rather obscure word.
According to Vasmer and Chernykh Russian *ну* and related interjections in other Slavic languages might derivate from *но *- "but"*, *not directly, but rather as a composition of **нъ + у*.
- **нъ* (elder form of *но*) - Old Slavonic "but, though, however"
- *у* meant "thus, now", close to αὖ - "however, on the other hand" (e.g. *у + же* > already now, *же* - emphatic particle, Old Slavonic *не ю* - not yet).
However there is still no reliable etymology of Russian *но* and therefore of *ну.*

But as for the Russian relatives of German *nun*, I'd recall Russian *ныне* - nowadays.


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## Flaminius

Hello respected etymologists and etymologisers,

I see that the Latin and German words have root morphemes (*nu*nc and *nu*n) that can be traced to the same PIE root (note the different sense of 'root' here).  But how about the suffixes?  Off the top of my head, the Latin _-nc_ looks like an accusative ending but I am not betting my two cents, which I have just placed here.


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## Outsider

According to Frank above, the German _-n_ is merely analogical...


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## modus.irrealis

Lewis & Short trace the final -c in _nunc_ to a "_demonstr. _-ce" and has an entry for -ce:

-cĕ, an inseparable strengthening demonstrative particle, answering etymol. to the Gr. γέ (Sanscr. ki; cf. Lat. ci-s and citra), and in signif. to the demonstr. ι (in οὑτοσί, τουτί, etc.), appended to words in different forms.  Unchanged _ce_: hicce, haecce, hocce; also in MSS. and inscriptions one _c_: hice, etc.; plur.: hice, haece, haecce; _gen._ hujusce, etc.—

Changed, 

Into _ci_ before the interrog. particle _ne_: hiccine, hoccine, siccine, nunccine, etc. (v. hic, sic, nunc, etc.).—

By a rejection of _e_, in hic, haec, hoc, nunc, etc. for hice, haece, hoce, nunce, etc.; illic, istic, nunc, sic (for illice, etc.); cf. Zumpt, Gram. § 132; Corss. Ausspr II. p. 235.


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## Frank06

Hi,

Here I found the following:
"Nunc < _*nun-*ce*_ 
_-ce _is a particle meaning "this," "here"."
That explains the -c, but not the -n-.

As for -n-: This is due to assimilation < *nu*m*-ce. 

As for -m: Sorry, I couldn't find out where that one comes from. Quite some other IE languages have a final nasal in case.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## berndf

Frank06 said:


> In the German word _nu*n*_ the final -n is explained as an anology to other adverbs of time such as _wenn_ and _dann_.


 
The final _n_ in _nun_ is indeed rather recent in standard High German. The modern form became standard spelling in High German (it never made it into Low German) only in the 18th century although _nun_ or _nuon_ as variants of_ nu_ or _nuo_ can be traced back to the 13th century (again only in High German, not in Low German).

In spoken High German the original form _nu_ is still very much alive, although, I surmise, modern speakers are generally not aware that _nu_ is the original form and would rather regard it as sloppy pronunciation of _nun_.


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## Outsider

As a curiosity, according to Wonderment in another thread, ancient Greek also used _nun_.


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## Flaminius

Thank you for those who have explained that _nunc_ is from _num_ + _ce_.  I knew both components but never thought of connecting them with _nunc_.


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## Erutuon

Ancient Greek _nūn_ is probably the exact cognate of Latin _num_ — final _-m_ in Latin (and Proto-Indo-European) is changed to _-n_ in Greek. The best examples are the case endings: masc. acc. sing. and neut. nom. and acc. sing. _-on_ and _-um_, and fem. acc. sing. _-ān_/_-ēn_ and _-am_, etc.


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## Alijsh

Well, let me add Persian. "now" is exactly *nun* in Middle Persian. In New Persian, we have *aknun* and *konun* which is a literary word.


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## Dausenkunz

I recently read a number of German 15th century theater plays. I often found the word 'nu' but have never seen the modern 'nun' in these sources.

On a side note, in some parts of Saxony nu is a synonym to yes.


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