# from seclusion comes knowledge / wisdom



## smelku

Topic: Sapientia ex solitudo
Added by Cagey, moderator 

Hello! I'm trying to formulate a phrase in Latin.

My basis is something along the lines of "from seclusion comes knowledge / wisdom" or "from isolation comes knowledge / wisdom." I learned very quickly the differences between "knowledge" and "wisdom" with regards to their definitions, but I'm having a lot of trouble.

Thanks in advance!


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## metaphrastes

Off the top of my head, what comes to my mind is paraphrasing the wording of the well-known adage: _ad astra per aspra (to the stars, to high things and accomplishments, through rough things, through hard paths).
_
Now see that the _*from *seclusion _or _*from *solitude _has in fact an instrumental force or, otherwise said, it is used regarding the _efficient cause_ or the _instrument_, the needed _tool _in order to acquire wisdom. Then, one may express this efficient cause both by the preposition _from _- in Latin, _ex _- as well by the preposition _by, through _- in Latin, _per.
_
The starting point, in English, would be something as _"to wisdom, through solitude". _This way, you would not need any verb such as _to come_, or _to be produced_, or _to originate - _it seems me more in agreement with the synthetic character of Latin, all the more in an adage that is meant to be concise.

Just remember that both _ad (to) _as well _per (by, through) _ask the nouns in Accusative case: _*ad* (noun of the thing to be obtained, in accusative) *per *(noun of the instrument to acquire it, in accusative, too).
_
I hope this may work well enough, while more learned members may have much better suggestions. Bonus labos!

*NOTE: *if you want to keep the preposition _ex (from)_, keep in mind that it asks for ablative case, then you should write _ex solitudine. _But there remains the need for something to make clear the relation between _solitude _as the source, or efficient cause, or instrument, or agent of _wisdom_, and I am not sure if a verb would be the better way to do the task. As you have it, but adding just the ablative, we would have _sapientia ex solitudine _that literally means _"wisdom from solitude", _and the relation between one and another sounds too vague - is, it seems you are just describing a particular kind of wisdom (attributive use) instead of asserting some fact as whence wisdom comes from, or what produces wisdom in a man (predicative use, in that it makes an assertion, an affirmation).


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## Xavier61

smelku said:


> Hello! I'm trying to formulate a phrase in Latin.
> 
> My basis is something along the lines of "from seclusion comes knowledge / wisdom" or "from isolation comes knowledge / wisdom." I learned very quickly the differences between "knowledge" and "wisdom" with regards to their definitions, but I'm having a lot of trouble.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Yes, you can say something like "sapientia ex solitudine", "ad sapientiam ex solitudine", "ad sapientiam per solitudinem". Only note that each preposition needs its correct case (per+acus, ex+abl).
The idea that somebody could arrive at knowledge through seclusion or isolation is alien to the Classical mind, so we will hardly find any example in the sources.


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## smelku

metaphrastes said:


> Off the top of my head, what comes to my mind is paraphrasing the wording of the well-known adage: _ad astra per aspra (to the stars, to high things and accomplishments, through rough things, through hard paths).
> _
> Now see that the _*from *seclusion _or _*from *solitude _has in fact an instrumental force or, otherwise said, it is used regarding the _efficient cause_ or the _instrument_, the needed _tool _in order to acquire wisdom. Then, one may express this efficient cause both by the preposition _from _- in Latin, _ex _- as well by the preposition _by, through _- in Latin, _per.
> _
> The starting point, in English, would be something as _"to wisdom, through solitude". _This way, you would not need any verb such as _to come_, or _to be produced_, or _to originate - _it seems me more in agreement with the synthetic character of Latin, all the more in an adage that is meant to be concise.
> 
> Just remember that both _ad (to) _as well _per (by, through) _ask the nouns in Accusative case: _*ad* (noun of the thing to be obtained, in accusative) *per *(noun of the instrument to acquire it, in accusative, too).
> _
> I hope this may work well enough, while more learned members may have much better suggestions. Bonus labos!
> 
> *NOTE: *if you want to keep the preposition _ex (from)_, keep in mind that it asks for genitive case, then you should write _ex solitudinis. _But there remains the need for something to make clear the relation between _solitude _as the source, or efficient cause, or instrument, or agent of _wisdom_, and I am not sure if a verb would be the better way to do the task. As you have it, but adding just the genitive, we would have _sapientia ex solitudinis _that literally means _"wisdom from solitude", _and the relation between one and another sounds too vague - is, it seems you are just describing a particular kind of wisdom (attributive use) instead of asserting some fact as whence wisdom comes from, or what produces wisdom in a man (predicative use, in that it makes an assertion, an affirmation).



Fantastic! This gives me a lot to think about, and you gave me a ton of good information to someone who isn't well-versed in Latin at all. Thanks!


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## smelku

Xavier61 said:


> Yes, you can say something like "sapientia ex solitudine", "ad sapientiam ex solitudine", "ad sapientiam per solitudinem". Only note that each preposition needs its correct case (per+acus, ex+abl).
> The idea that somebody could arrive at knowledge through seclusion or isolation is alien to the Classical mind, so we will hardly find any example in the sources.


Thank you so much! I'd assume the alien mindset of "knowledge from isolation" is what made researching a translation for a phrase like this so hard, and is why I turned to a forum like this. I've gotten some great replies so far, and I await any more suggestions or lessons! Thanks!


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## metaphrastes

Xavier61 said:


> Only note that each preposition needs its correct case (per+acus, ex+abl)


Thank you for your kind correction, Xavier61, as here I was wrongly assuming the Latin _ex _would ask genitive case as the Greek cognate _ek _does_. _I forgot about the ablative, and I am glad you timely corrected it. I edited my post in order that no one may be misled by it.


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## Xavier61

metaphrastes said:


> Thank you for your kind correction, Xavier61, as here I was wrongly assuming the Latin _ex _would ask genitive case as the Greek cognate _ek _does_. _I forgot about the ablative, and I am glad you timely corrected it. I edited my post in order that no one may be misled by it.


I know, sometimes I also make that class of mistakes. I always try to remember that Latin had six cases, but Greek only five. The old indoerupean ablative merged with genitive in Greek, but instrumental and locative merged with dative. In Latin, all these cases merged with ablative.


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## wandle

smelku said:


> I await any more suggestions or lessons!


Could you give some background to your idea? Is it perhaps related to the practice of the hermits who retired into the desert or wilderness to engage in prayer and meditation?


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## metaphrastes

Xavier61 said:


> The old indoerupean ablative merged with genitive in Greek, but instrumental and locative merged with dative. In Latin, all these cases merged with ablative


Thank you very much, that explains a lot of things, that are outside the scope of this thread and this forum, too. Once a Russian member, here in the Latin forum, identified Russian instrumental case with Latin ablative, and this explains why, since there is a partial coincidence of functions, while Russian instrumental case is much more "specialized" - by keeping its original function from Indoeuropean - while Latin ablative absorbed other functions besides the instrumental one.


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## smelku

wandle said:


> Could you give some background to your idea?


Absolutely! You're very spot on with regards to the background, though I'm trying to bring a modern interpretation towards it. For example, to be used in the context of someone retiring from civilization to study and become intellectually wise more so than spiritually.


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## wandle

You might say: _in_ _secessu gignitur sapientia_ (or _scientia): _in seclusion is born wisdom (or knowledge).


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## metaphrastes

smelku said:


> You're very spot on with regards to the background, though I'm trying to bring a modern interpretation towards it. For example, to be used in the context of someone retiring from civilization to study and become intellectually wise more so than spiritually


I regret to say that, actually, the idea _was_ modern some two centuries ago: Henry David Thoreau - Wikipedia
And, since Thoreau had the material background of the rich family of Ralph Waldo Emerson, actually it was never fully realized nor successful to the last consequences.

And, regarding the hermits of old, all classical Christian texts such as the _Apophtegmata Patrum_ or the lives of Holy Anchorites emphasize that solitude, in and by itself, is no source of wisdom, but only if self-reliance is uprooted by the advice of a wise, seasoned ascetic - who will, among other things, give advice regarding the degree of isolation, e.g., seeing the brothers once a week, on Sunday, or once a month, or once at each Church Feast, or once a year, on Easter, so on... that is, if solitude were not carefully balanced according each one's strength, it might bring a host of troubles, insanity included, but also _acedia_, with its consequent dulling not only of physical and psychological vigor, as well dulling of rational faculties, that actually would hinder any development of intellectual wit.


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