# gnocca - gnocco



## debe

what does "gnocca means" ? is it rude?


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## Luc4

A "gnocca" is a very beautiful woman. It is vulgar, but I think it's a praise somehow.


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## uinni

debe said:
			
		

> help me somebody told my cousin this "ma quale linda"
> and what does "gnocca" means ? is it rude?


 
Linda means "pulita" (not "bella", like in Spanish  )
"ma quale linda" should be followed by a further sentence of rebuttal as it means: "a clear conscience her? come off it!"

gnocca means handsome (woman/girl) (piece of a    cunt ).

Uinni


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## Luc4

From what I knew     "cunt" is more offensive than "gnocca", even if I've never tried to say it to a girl just to see the reaction. I would say it is more like another term I don't know if it's the case to write (not requested by the first post).


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## ElaineG

In AE, that C word is about the most vulgar thing you can possibly say. (I think the British use it a little more freely). Don't _ever_ use it to or about a woman or her anatomy unless she has a rather unusual taste for particularly filthy talk; if you do use that word, you have a good chance of getting (deservedly) hit.


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## uinni

ElaineG said:
			
		

> In AE, that C word is about the most vulgar thing you can possibly say. (I think the British use it a little more freely). Don't _ever_ use it to or about a woman or her anatomy unless she has a rather unusual taste for particularly filthy talk; if you do use that word, you have a good chance of getting (deservedly) hit.


 
Sorry ElaineG but (apart from the degree of coarsness) this is what "gnocca" really stands for; nothing more nothing less.

Uinni


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## Luc4

Yes, the meaning is the same, but it is far less rude, isn't it?


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## ElaineG

> (apart from the degree of coarseness)


 
Isn't the degree of coarseness what's important here though? I was shocked to see that c word on my screen, and certainly shocked to see it with only one  (which I've also seen used as a designation for damn, ass, etc.) (of course, I know that you are a non-native speaker and were not trying to be tasteless), BUT from a translation perspective, it's not a good translation for gnocca unless gnocca is really one of the filthiest words in the Italian language.


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## shamblesuk

Could a more acceptable translation be 'she'd be an amazing fuck'?   .

The 'c' word would never be used in this manner even in BE (sorry ElaineG, but we use it rarely too) but fuck  is also an expletive used to describe the beauty of a woman (very coarsely).

Che ne pensate?


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## ElaineG

> even in BE (sorry ElaineG, but we use it rarely too)


 
I was thinking of Scotland (SE? ), where I heard things like "he's a right wee c..." used relatively casually.  I remember it because it surprised me when I heard it, but then I overheard it a few times, which led me to believe that was more common in the UK.  Maybe just Glasgow?


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## uinni

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Isn't the degree of coarseness what's important here though? I was shocked to see that c word on my screen, and certainly shocked to see it with only one (which I've also seen used as a designation for damn, ass, etc.) (of course, I know that you are a non-native speaker and were not trying to be tasteless), BUT from a translation perspective, it's not a good translation for gnocca unless gnocca is really one of the filthiest words in the Italian language.


 
You are perfectly right. Gnocca (currently) is not on the same level of "pezzo di fica"  , which is closer to the word you loathe. I definitely laked s.
But I guess the two terms should deserve the same degree of coarsness as I think for a woman to be defined "a vagina" should be insulting anyway and "gnocca" means "vagina". But in our male chauvinist society (not only in "latin" countries) it turns out that women are resigned to such a treatement, and when they declare a word to be intolerable, simply a new one is introduced by men... 
Moreover I assure you that when two men talk about it the two terms in Italian are treated as to have the same degree of s and I guess this happens in English too...

Uinni



			
				Luc4 said:
			
		

> Yes, the meaning is the same, but it is far less rude, isn't it?


I have been warned that the definition of a woman as being handsome is not much of a compliment... So I guess that handsome could be used to translate gnocca  (provided "gnocca"  is said with a jokey tone).

Uinni


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## ElaineG

> I guess this happens in English too...


 
I couldn't say for sure, because I'm obviously not privy to men-only conversations... but I don't think American men use the "c" word as much as they would use other words to talk about women.

As for gnocca, I'd suggest "nice piece of ass"  , which is piggish and crude, but not over-the-top.


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## Marcone

ElaineG said:
			
		

> I couldn't say for sure, because I'm obviously not privy to men-only conversations... but I don't think American men use the "c" word as much as they would use other words to talk about women.
> 
> As for gnocca, I'd suggest "nice piece of ass"  , which is piggish and crude, but not over-the-top.


 
At the risk of losing my "man" status, I will say that over my lifetime the C word has been used in male coversations, and it has always had a negative, demeaning and frequently angry connotation. There are many other euphemisms for vagina that have a more favorable tone, but personally, I and most of the men I know, find them demeaning as well.


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## DesertCat

Typically, men who use this c word are either bitter or misogynistic.  The few times I've heard women use it, it was in regards to another woman (usually involving a "stolen" boyfriend), and in that case it's a harsh substitute for bitch.

Anyway, I would recommend you not use it anywhere near American women.


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## morgana

From my point of view (of an Italian woman) I wouldn't feel insulted if somebody says I'm "gnocca" - at least here in the North of Italy, it is considered a quite "rude" compliment. 

As for the translation, what do you think about "hot chick"?


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## sweet_cate

morgana said:
			
		

> From my point of view (of an Italian woman) I wouldn't feel insulted if somebody says I'm "gnocca" - at least here in the North of Italy, it is considered a quite "rude" compliment.
> 
> As for the translation, what do you think about "hot chick"?


 
I do not like to be considered ..

Non mi piace essere valutata per il mio aspetto fisico, c'entra molto il DNA con il mio fisico, io come essere umano non è che ci posso fare molto..

A non tutte le donne italiane piace quindi.Credo anche c'entri anche molto poco con la seduzione, la sensualità e la gioia di provare piacere sessuale l'essere definita "gnocca" e quindi appettibile e apprezzata dagli uomini per il proprio "adattamento" alle loro necessità oniriche e di modello stereotipato femminile.

Non so cosa voglia dire "hot chick" anche se è intuibile direi.. ad ogni modo lo chiederò con precisione appena possibile.


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## curon

Gnocca in British English might be 
"a nice bit of skirt" or "totty" (or in Wales "a cheeky") 
I have heard "gnocca" a lot in films like "office space" where they (rightly or wrongly) used it as a translation for "chick" or "babe"

And thank you for making me laugh with the Glaswegian "He's a wee c ". Let's just say swearing is not a big deal in certain circles, but it is in most!


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## meganmilan

Cunt is an Old-English word for vagina.  Today it is a vulgar term for this part of a woman's anatomy.

Just a word of advice: in many English speaking countries "cunt" is one of the most offensive words you can use.  In Australia and New Zealand it is only used in a derogatory way and is considered my most (especially women) as disgusting and extremely offensive.  My American and British friends also find this word very offensive.  Therefore, please refrain from using it - even jokingly as you may lose respect from those native English speakers around you.


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## Luc4

sweet_cate said:
			
		

> Non mi piace essere valutata per il mio aspetto fisico, c'entra molto il DNA con il mio fisico, io come essere umano non è che ci posso fare molto..



If someone tells you "gnocca" he is not (necessarily) judging you. He is only telling you that you are very pretty, not that your only relevant value is your physical aspect .
Anyway, if I wanted to say the same thing to you, I would chose a different expression; I would never use such a word.


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## Schvoo

"un pezzo di gnocca"  is a common phrase. It can be translated as a "hot piece of ass"

It is vulgur. Someone shouted it at my girlfriend in one of the main Piazza's the other day. 


I was bigger than him.


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## bao

I think the word originated in the Lombardy region, most likely in teh greater Milan area.  I would risk to guess that the origin is the word gnocco that was feminine-ized for the above mentioned reference to the female anatomy.  When it first came out (late 70's early 80's ?) it was considered very rude -- although not as rude and offensive as the "c" word -- but then because it became commonly used in movies and later on tv, it has become more accepted.  My guess is that screen writers used it because it wasn't yet on the dictionary and therefore not subject to censorship.
In my opinion the closest translation is  piece of ass.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Well I think at this point we should have understood there is an English at least a word that we should never pronounce.

Clearly, it has nothing to do with our "gnocca" which, although it is not elegant, is almost a compliment.

According to the description of Elaine, who is shocked by the mere view of the "unmentionable word" on the screen, I am just wondering if we have in Italian such a shocking word with a similar meaning.

I just can't think of anything in Italian which would give me that feeling. Any ideas?

Perhaps, thinking about something offensive, which would hurt a woman at the point to hit me and that can be used by men with anger or despise, could that be something like "vacca"  ?


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## Nate in California

morgana said:


> From my point of view (of an Italian woman) I wouldn't feel insulted if somebody says I'm "gnocca" - at least here in the North of Italy, it is considered a quite "rude" compliment.
> 
> As for the translation, what do you think about "hot chick"?



Thank you! Finally someone speaks the truth! In my experience neither "gnocca" or "figa" (which both _technically_ mean vagina) are considered overly offensive. Actually, expressions like "che figa" are meant as a compliment. Are they a little crude? Sure, but Italian women use the expression "che figo" to refer to attractive men (I think it's a play on the former expression). NONE OF THESE EXPRESSIONS BELONG IN THE SAME THREAD WITH THE WORD "CUNT." End of story, punto e basta. There is no room for argument here. "Cunt" is an extremely, extremely offensive term in English -- maybe the only term that approaches the level of blasphemy in Italian -- and should basically never be used as far as I'm concerned.

p.s. I also agree with Morgana's tranlation, "hot chick," which is less offensive than "piece of ass." Btw, it should be pointed out that "pezzo di gnocca" is much more offensive than "è una gnocca" or "che gnocca." Because it's so graphic it goes overboard.


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## duckie

Tommaso Gastaldi said:


> According to the description of Elaine, who is shocked by the mere view of the "unmentionable word" on the screen, I am just wondering if we have in Italian such a shocking word with a similar meaning.



I don't know if you do of course, but it's obviously very much a cultural as well as an individual matter whether someone is going to be shocked by the mere view of a word. We have plenty of coarse words in Danish which are conside offensive, but most people I know wouldn't be shocked by seeing them mentioned. There are other words that are 'unmentionable' in the US for other reasons, so it's at least partly a cultural issue.

I have another question: I was told that calling someone a struzzo (ostrich) is a major insult in Italy. Is that true?


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## Paulfromitaly

Nate in California said:


> . Actually, expressions like "che figa" are meant as a compliment. Are they a little crude? Sure, but Italian women use the expression "che figo" to refer to attractive men ..



I quite agree with you, but there's a different rudeness degree between "che (pezzo di) figa!" and "che figo!" :

*che pezzo di figa! = *_what a piece of ass! _ there's a clear and not subtle reference to the dualism "girl+her kitten" : you do NOT tell a mum that her daughter is_ a pezzo di figa_ 

*che figo!* = _what a cute hunk!  _this term was born not too long ago: it's an adaptation to guys of _che figa! _but there's no dualism "guy+his willy": you can tell a mum that his son is a _figo_ and she might also be proud of that.


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## Saoul

May kindly remind any of you to use the symbol  when necessary?

I love your discussion, but please remember foreign friends need to know when a word "has to be used with caution". 

Thanks for your help
Saoul


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## Alv74

not too much, it means something like 'chick' or 'babe'


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## duckie

fox71 - thank you, it must have been a misunderstanding then 

Is the original meaning of figa anatomy or attractive girl? According to WR it means both, but the vulgar meaning appears to have been developed later on..

edit - also, I really don't understand the whole warning sign thing, I'm going along with it obviously, but since this is a discussion of 'vulgar' words how can one read the discussion and not expect to see the words?


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## lsp

Nate in California said:


> Thank you! Finally someone speaks the truth! In my experience neither "gnocca" or "figa" (which both _technically_ mean vagina) are considered overly offensive. Actually, expressions like "che figa" are meant as a compliment. Are they a little crude? Sure...


When a construction worker whistles at a pretty girl/woman... is it flattering or rude? To me, it's the same concept, i.e., those who think that the whistle should be taken as a compliment probably think a public comment like "nice piece of ass (or tail)", or being called any euphemism that "technically means vagina," also merits a thank you.


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## Alv74

It means both and they're both vulgar!
As I read in other messages on this forum figa (pezzo di figa), when referred to a girl, is closer to  'hot ass' and similars ...
It's interesting to notice however how 'gnocca' which means quite the same - but it's not really vulgar, it's kind of funny rather than insulting - is used in Bologna's area (even though it's understood in most of the country thanks to some 'trash' movies from the 80's), while  figa is definitely more used in Milan (where it is used a lot as an interlocution too).
ciao

I was almost forgetting ... 'gnocco' is a kind of pasta made out of potatoes (I love gnocchi!)


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## duckie

I was wondering if there was a relation.. a gnocca is a female gnocco? But gnocco when referring to a person means an idiotr, right?

Yeah, I forgot about the idiot bit (not sure why it says that in WR), I was just wondering why it refers to a woman's genitals (if indirectly) in the female form, but not a man's in the male form..


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## Alv74

It says that because sometimes in Italian it can be referred to someone who is a bit 'slow' in understanding .... 'That student is a bit 'gnocco'' would mean that it takes him/her a bit longer than usual to understand things ... as far as I know ...


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## Alxmrphi

We've found the answer!!! Yeah.
Is it any correspondance with the "dumb" blonde, attractive people are more stupid, etc?


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## Alv74

not to my knowledge ...
besides, 'gnocco' as 'slow' in understanding is usually used almost only for males, as any time you use it for a woman, it'll most of times sound as something sex-related (unless it is, for instance, two female teachers talking about a school-girl...) as it's been long debated on this forum ... 90% of times (expecially if you're a man) you can't say 'she is a bit gnocca' ... without hinting something like 'she's kind of hot' (?) .....
but you can sure say 'he's a bit gnocco' referring to the poor guy's brains .... (and not to his physical appereance')
sorry, I hope that doesn't dissapoint you  !!!
I wonder if, after all, we, men, are the 'slow' ones!!!
... and chicks will be 'gnocche' forever .... (as long as they keep their make-up on)


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## ··pao²··

Giusto una piccola precisazione.
"_Gnocca_" rivolto direttamente ad una donna, in Italiano può essere (praticamente sempre) offensivo, al contrario del vezzeggiativo "_Piccola_" che assume un aspetto più tenero e delicato.

Grazie a tutti per le risposte.

Ciao!


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## Roobee

hai ragione, per questo consigliavo altri appellativi...'gnocca' era giusto per dare l'idea ...quindi usare una 'softer version' piu' adatta. Grazie


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## Hello Sary

··pao²·· said:


> Giusto una piccola precisazione.
> "_Gnocca_" rivolto direttamente ad una donna, in Italiano può essere (praticamente sempre) offensivo, al contrario del vezzeggiativo "_Piccola_" che assume un aspetto più tenero e delicato.
> 
> Grazie a tutti per le risposte.
> 
> Ciao!




Non sono d'accordo con la tua precisazione! So che sono off-topic, comunque volevo dire che i miei amici maschi usano chiamare me e le mie amiche "gnocca", nel senso di "bella ragazza". Non è forse raffinatissimo ma di certo non offensivo!


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## Giak

Hello Sary said:


> Non sono d'accordo con la tua precisazione! So che sono off-topic, comunque volevo dire che i miei amici maschi usano chiamare me e le mie amiche "gnocca", nel senso di "bella ragazza". Non è forse raffinatissimo ma di certo non offensivo!


 

Non è offensivo (poi dipende sempre dal tono e dal contesto) se è un tuo AMICO dirtelo 
Se cammini in strada e un passate ti incrocia e ti dice "che gnocca!" non credo ti faccia piacere


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## Hello Sary

Giak said:


> Non è offensivo (poi dipende sempre dal tono e dal contesto) se è un tuo AMICO dirtelo
> Se cammini in strada e un passate ti incrocia e ti dice "che gnocca!" non credo ti faccia piacere



Eh eh, come sempre dipende! Se a dirlo è Brad Pitt...  Scherzi a parte, penso anch'io che non sia il tipo di complimento da usare per conquistare una ragazza però, appunto, può essere detto tra amici con connotazione simpatica.


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## Giak

Hello Sary said:


> Eh eh, come sempre dipende! Se a dirlo è Brad Pitt...  Scherzi a parte, penso anch'io che non sia il tipo di complimento da usare per conquistare una ragazza però, appunto, può essere detto tra amici con connotazione simpatica.


 

Poi sai, entra in gioco anche il grado di vanità di ogni donna 
Magari cammini in strada e uno sconosciuto ti dice "che gnocca!", tu te la prendi e gli rifili un ceffone... però quando te ne vai dopo averlo pestato, dentro di te, ci ragioni e dici a te stessa "però m'ha detto che sono gnocca..." e ti passi una mano tra i capelli


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## Hello Sary

Giak said:


> Poi sai, entra in gioco anche il grado di vanità di ogni donna
> Magari cammini in strada e uno sconosciuto ti dice "che gnocca!", tu te la prendi e gli rifili un ceffone... però quando te ne vai dopo averlo pestato, dentro di te, ci ragioni e dici a te stessa "però m'ha detto che sono gnocca..." e ti passi una mano tra i capelli



Sono perfettamente d'accordo. Devo ammettere le mie debolezze...


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## ··pao²··

Intendevo fosse ritenuto offensivo nel contesto formale.

Andresti in una banca dove lavora un'avvenente ragazza, dandole della "_gnocca_"?... 

Ad ogni modo, credo sia un discorso molto soggettivo che varia da contesti, toni e personaggi coinvolti.

Di sicuro, (e credo che siamo tutti d'accordo), non è un complimento raffinato da porgere ad una ragazza.
Ciao!


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## milchkeksi

Hi!

In the north of Italy I heard people use the word "gnocca" (in the meaning of "bella").

I would like to use it in the plural - do I have to say "gnocche" then??

Ciao gnocca! (for singular)
Ciao gnocche! (for plural)??

Is that correct?

Thanks for your help!


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## Paulfromitaly

milchkeksi said:


> Ciao gnocca! (for singular)
> Ciao gnocche! (for plural)??
> 
> Is that correct?


That's correct.


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## Tristano

I agree with  you:




ElaineG said:


> As for gnocca, I'd suggest "nice piece of ass"  , which is piggish and crude, but not over-the-top.



Tristano


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## nutella59

Gnocca in Italy has NOTHING to do with the VERY vulgar and offensive "c" word!!!

It can be said as a passing (by) compliment with a smile even to one's female companion, sure to get just a smile back...

Bottom line it is a soft, juicy, tasty, yummy something you'd like to eat, just like the great Italian potato dumplings, gnocchi appunto, which can be enjoyed in plenty of ways with all sorts of sauces: try them with porcini mushrooms sauce or four cheese sauce...  A DELIGHT!!!

How would I translate that?... 

One should be able to rebuild the "Italian spirit": with that word, and I'm afraid it just would not work...

Nice piece of ass is crude, and sound like a butcher's comment or a whore house evaluation.

"Minnie Mouse" or "Betty Booper" would be closer!

I'd just translate it with " YUMMY  " and a


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## Bagatha

I'm actually surprised that, in discussing "gnocca,"  no one has mentioned its relationship to another slang word relating to females (in this case, explicitly, to female anatomy), "patata." 

I dare say this has a lot to do with why the word "gnocca" has the connotation it does.

Gnocchi are made (usually) from potatoes, thus we can extrapolate something about the intended connection between the two words as slang terms.  (ie a woman's appeal/beauty/femininity originating or being centered around a certain bit of her anatomy as the "main ingredient," so to speak.)  

Looked at in that way, you can see how it's different from words like lovely/beautiful/bella/bellissima, etc, as it's not just about beauty, but also clearly about sexuality or intent. 

As it's a word more often used farther north than anywhere I'm really familiar with, I can't be sure, but I suspect that when a man uses "gnocca" about a woman, he isn't just thinking about looking at her.  


Also, just throwing another hat in the ring on the subject of "cunt":

While it's true that it's a strong word anywhere (most of all in the U.S.),  I maintain that in many circles in the UK, AU, and NZ, it's used quite liberally, either jokingly among friends, or as an extra strong way of saying someone you dislike is a very unpleasant, and probably very stupid person (e.g. politicians, referees, that guy in the office who always drinks the last cup of coffee and never makes a new pot, etc).   It's not quite the forbidden, taboo word that it is in the US, and it's directed just as often at men as at women, if not more often.  

That said, it's always best to avoid using it, and other vulgar words, unless a native English speaker in the group uses it first so that the tone has been set and you understand the expectations and habits of the company you're in.  Sometimes even an exact, verbatim translation of a vulgar word can have a completely different level of severity in another language ('The C Word' in French is quite mild, for example), so even more caution is needed when seeking a corresponding word or phrase when there is no direct translation.


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## nutella59

Great!
Good remark about "patata", which is used, though, in all possible variations (patatone, patato, etcetera), also for males, especially in the case of chubby and cute babies.
Still in the edible field...   Which means "good", "I like it", "I want some of that"...


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## islandbear

HOT CHICK is the best definition IMHO. I am almost sure it is no where NEAR the vulgarity of the "C" word in American English! Also I do agree that the Brits use the "C" word much more casually than in AE. Bad Bad in AE don't even Think the word!!


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## sandcat

This word has reappeared in the news, with Berlusconi joking about renaming his party _Forza Gnocca_. The British newspaper The Guardian translated it as _Go Pussy_, which made me laugh. I don't think _pussy_ has been suggested. It sounds American to me, but is presumably less offensive than the c-word? What do I know, I'm a Brit and use the c-word with gay abandon, though only to refer to men. 

A _hot chick_ doesn't work in BrE.


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## london calling

sandcat said:


> This word has reappeared in the news, with Berlusconi joking about renaming his party _Forza Gnocca_. The British newspaper The Guardian translated it as _Go Pussy_, which made me laugh. I don't think _pussy_ has been suggested. It sounds American to me, but is presumably less offensive than the c-word? What do I know, I'm a Brit and use the c-word with gay abandon, though only to refer to men.
> 
> A _hot chick_ doesn't work in BrE.


_Go pussy_ is about right, I reckon (think James Bond and Pussy Galore in the 60s film, people....., although I might say _Go, Pussy, go_! _Hot chick_ isn't BE, I agree, but it would be understood (can't say I like it, but then I don't like _pussy_ either)::  us ladies tend to find that sort of thing offensive, we're a bit sensitive!).

You use the c-word to refer to men? Pardon my saying so, but the only man (or woma., for that matter) I know who does that is one of my best friends and he's gay.


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## sandcat

london calling said:


> You use the c-word to refer to men? Pardon my saying so, but the only man (or woman, for that matter) I know who does that is one of my best friends and he's gay.


We may be at cross-purposes here - I'm talking about it as a term of abuse, meaning a thoroughly nasty piece of work, not some sort of crude sexual compliment! Upthread ElaineG mentioned hearing things like "he's a right wee c..." used relatively casually. That's the usage I mean (though without the "wee" as I'm not a Scot.  ) I can't say "She's a complete c...", only that he is.


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## nutella59

BTW: gnocca is *only* used when speaking about a pretty girl/woman, it is *never *meant as an insult in Italian, even if some find it objectionable in spite of the fact that all the women I know use it when they speak with someone about another pretty woman in a non formal setting... I must say though, that all of my female friends have long abandoned that part of the feminist attitude that used to upset them even when there was really nothing to be upset about.
I tend to agree with Sary.
I never heard the term used just to indicate female genitalia, contrary to patata.
A gnocco/gnocca has ALSO patata, but not only... ;-)


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## london calling

@Nutella, sono anni che vivo qui e essere definita bona, una bella gnocca ecc. ecc. (per non parlare di altre espressioni ben più volgari) non mi è mai piaciuta, non l'ho mai preso come un complimento, chi insisteva a dire certe cose avrà ricordato a lungo la mia reazione. Dici che l'intenzione di chi dice una cosa del genere è buona, non offensiva? Io mi offendo e m'incazzo lo stesso (di brutto) e in ogni caso non ci credo che le intenzioni di chi si permette di dire una cosa del genere ad una donna siano delle migliori. Sono bella? Dimmelo e basta (e tanti lo fanno, grazie a Dio non sono tutti degli stronzi). Lo stesso discorso vale anche per l'inglese, a proposito.

@sandcat: definitely at cross-purposes, because we were talking about the use of "gnocca" (which incidentally I wouldn't translate as  cunt anyway, that's _fica/figa_ in Italian), _a nice piece of ass_, as someone suggested above. and to which I also object!


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## shifan

"gnocca" on its own means "pussy", but "che gnocca!" is a compliment and can be translated as "what a looker!". It is very colloquial but not really vulgar. Former Italian prime minister Mr. B. once made a joke about naming his party "forza gnocca", he is no reference of course, but in the gloomy days of his reign, this word was often found in newspaper articles when referring to the Prime Minister's leisure activities


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## london calling

shifan said:


> "gnocca" on its own means "pussy", but "che gnocca!" is a compliment and can be translated as "what a looker!". It is very colloquial but not really vulgar. Former Italian prime minister Mr. B. once made a joke about naming his party "forza gnocca", he is no reference of course, but in the gloomy days of his reign, this word was often found in newspaper articles when referring to the Prime Minister's leisure activities


Ripeto quanto già affermato...se non vuoi un calcio in bocca non dirmi "che gnocca".

E le battute di *Burlesquoni *sono sono degne di essere riportate.


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## giginho

london calling said:


> Ripeto quanto già affermato...se non vuoi un calcio in bocca non dirmi "che gnocca".
> 
> E le battute di *Burlesquoni *sono sono degne di essere riportate.



Sto resistendo a forza alla tentazione di dire a LC quello che non vuole. (l'altezza è dalla mia!!)    Da madrelingua non sento la frase: "ciao bella gnocca" oppure "oggi in giro c'è parecchia gnocca" come particolarmente volgare o offensivo verso una Signora/Signorina. Ma questo è un mio punto di vista e non voglio sindacare sui feelings altrui.

P.S. LC, le battute di Berlu non sarebbero nemmeno degne di essere dette.....su questo siamo d'accordo!


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## shifan

as you see, different people have different opinions. I am a woman and don't get offended if I hear someone yelling "che gnocca" at me, quite the opposite. But then I guess it depends on one's background and on how rooted one's inferiority complex is. As women in Italian society continue to suffer great injustice, a lot of them become really aggressive and threaten to kick you in the mouth if you fail to display a politically correct attitude or if you don't empathize 100% with their pseudo-feminist rage. In a working-class environment in Emilia Romagna, we're more chilled than that...


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## london calling

shifan said:


> as you see, different people have different opinions. I am a woman and don't get offended if I hear someone yelling "che gnocca" at me, quite the opposite. But then I guess it depends on one's background and on how rooted one's inferiority complex is. As women in Italian society continue to suffer great injustice, a lot of them become really aggressive and threaten to kick you in the mouth if you fail to display a politically correct attitude or if you don't empathize 100% with their pseudo-feminist rage. In a working-class environment in Emilia Romagna, we're more chilled than that...


I don't have an inferiority complex, quite the opposite as a matter of fact (sotto tutti i punti di vista, come donna e come testa pensante. I'm not working class by the way (but does that really make any difference? It doesn't to me.)

I quite simply don't like being treated as some men treat their women, as an object or as chattels.. And pseudo-feminist rage is something I associate with complete idiots - I was obviously joking when I said what I said below.

Intendiamoci: quando mi dicevano (e ogni tanto dicono ancora)  _sei bellissima!_ l'ho sempre preso come un complimento. Non arrivo al punto di dire che i maschi non mi devono apprezzare anche dal punto di vista fisico, sarebbe ridicolo (a pseudo-feminist would say that, of course).


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## Teerex51

I used to work in the Milan office of an international consulting firm where the executive assistants (mostly young ladies in their mid-twenties) would greet each other in the AM with "ciao, bella gnocca". This says a lot about this term and how harmless it is. 
Of course, if someone has a permanent chip on their shoulder, all bets are off


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## Einstein

Trex, I've experienced similar situations and I agree that it was harmless there, but everything depends on the level of familiarity. Certain words should not be used unless we're absolutely sure they won't cause offence. After all, you can greet certain friends with "Hello, shit-face", but that doesn't mean you can use the expression wherever you like.


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## giginho

Einstein, of course you mean that "gnocca" is a very informal word and it is to be avoided when talking in a neutral/informal context. Between friends I think it's a very common word and none of my girl friends will be annoyed if I address to them as: "ciao belle gnocche".......I think that LC means that she will be annoyed if a John Doe addreses to her like "bella gnocca" and this is quite obvious!


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## london calling

giginho said:


> Einstein, of course you mean that "gnocca" is a very informal word and it is to be avoided when talking in a neutral/informal context. Between friends I think it's a very common word and none of my girl friends will be annoyed if I address to them as: "ciao belle gnocche".......I think that LC means that she will be annoyed if a John Doe addreses to her like "bella gnocca" and this is quite obvious!



Right, Giginho, and I think that's what Einstein meant as well..

PS. Teerex: I hope you didn't mean me when you made that MCP comment of yours about "permanent chips".  Not me at all, no inferiority complexes here....


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## Teerex51

Einstein said:


> Certain words should not be used unless we're absolutely sure they won't cause offence. After all, you can greet certain friends with "Hello, shit-face", but that doesn't mean you can use the expression wherever you like.


You can rest assured I'm pretty comfortable with the nuances of my own native tongue . The information contained in this ancient thread will go a long way in ensuring that also non-native speakers of Italian won't make fools of themselves. 
All sexually loaded words should be handled with care -- in any language.

Edit: LC, why would my comment be about you?  And why would you automatically label it as MCP?


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## london calling

Teerex51 said:


> Edit: LC, why would my comment be about you?  And why would you automatically label it as MCP?


Because it was and I'm not the only one who realised it was, so don't bother denying it (not that I really care). And it's MCP because that kind of man automatically thinks that women who complains about this sort of thing has some kind of problem (absolute shite).

No hard feelings, however, really, this to me is all a big joke (and it's water off a duck's back, me dear!), I have more serious problems to take care of.

I agree with you 100% that this thread is very useful. I wonder if there's another one which makes which would be as useful for Italians speaking English? There probably is.....


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## The Pupill

Hi everybody, I read this forum very often, but this is my first post here and, as you may grasp by my nick, I'm not so skilled in speaking english as I still feel myself as a pupil, although over 40 years went by since I finished studying it as I was 13 in junior high school. So, admit my errors and, if you want, go ahead correcting me, I'm here on this purpose ! Well, I started off just on this thread 'cause I was curious about how "gnocca" would be translated in english; so I read many posts and I found the thread really interesting, as I read how LC made the point that this kind of word may have offensive nuances, it depends by the context, obviously. I think that LC's is a respectfully opinion, but I would like to tell that , as time passes, the meaning of the words may change, including the meaning of "gnocca". I did not read all the posts, but in the ones I did, I did not read that in ialian language there is also the equivalent "gnocco" (or "figo") to address to an attractive boy. This means, i.m.o., that the word modified itself and lost that sexist acceptation undirlined by you, don't you agree ? I understand that the point is not the single word as the use you do of them: one may say "ma quanto sei bello" but mean that he thinks that he's ugly. But I also think that this kind of sexual expressions is modifying and losing their original and offensive meaning, or at least so it seems to me amid teenagers. If you want, we can go on threading. Ciao da Fabio.


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## london calling

The Pupill said:


> If you want, we can go on threading. Ciao da Fabio.


Benvenuto.

Secondo me, siccome siamo passati a discutere una cosa che riguarda esclusivamente la lingua italiana sarebbe il caso di non continuare qui ma nel forum Solo italiano (a parte il fatto che forse esiste già un thread che ne parla).


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## robin.at.night

I quite simply don't like being treated as some men treat their women, as an object or as chattels.. And pseudo-feminist rage is something I associate with complete idiots - I was obviously joking when I said what I said below.

Intendiamoci: quando mi dicevano (e ogni tanto dicono ancora) _sei bellissima!_ l'ho sempre preso come un complimento. Non arrivo al punto di dire che i maschi non mi devono apprezzare anche dal punto di vista fisico, sarebbe ridicolo (a pseudo-feminist would say that, of course).[/QUOTE]


Concordo in tutto con il pensiero di london calling.
E... shifan,  gnocca deve essere usato (se proprio lo si deve usare) con molta cautela e senza mai dimenticarsi del contesto.  Non tutte la trovano innocua, e personalmente mi guarderei bene dal dire ad uno straniero che è più un complimento che un'offesa. Quantomeno andrebbe specificato che è una di quelle parole da usare facendo opportune premesse. 
si può usare:
- se sei un uomo tra uomini (in un contesto confidenziale/ goliardico)
- se sei donna tra donne (in un contesto confidenziale)
- con un/una amico/a, fidanzata/o (in un contesto scherzoso, intimo, confidenziale)

Da NON usare:
- riferendosi a donne sconosciute o appena conosciute 
- tutti i contesti formali

questo è un appellativo ti stampo maschilista, checché se ne dica. Un corrispettivo di stampo femminista potrebbe essere  cavallo da monta o manzo da monta (anche se non particolarmente usati, ma che esprimono, nel concetto, esattamente quanto espresso da gnocca). Entrambi, comunque, significano uomo/donna con cui si farebbe sesso. Come puoi ben capire anche tu, non è questione di complessi di inferiorità o rabbia pseudo femminista. Dire a una donna, per strada, che è una bella gnocca, ci si prende libertà e confidenza come se fossero dovuti, la si spersonalizza per ridurla a puro oggetto sessuale... qualcuna si potrà anche sentire appagata, ma qualcun'altra, giustamente, no.


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## giginho

robin.at.night said:


> questo è un appellativo ti stampo maschilista, checché se ne dica. che cosa ti fa dire questo? Io sono completamente in disaccordo con te, per esempio! Un corrispettivo di stampo femminista potrebbe essere  cavallo da monta o manzo da monta  "gnocco" esiste anche al maschile, "bonazzo", "figone" sono suoi sinonimi. "cavallo da monta" non è per nulla un corrispettivo di "gnocca". (anche se non particolarmente usati, ma che esprimono, nel concetto, esattamente quanto espresso da gnocca). Entrambi, comunque, significano uomo/donna con cui si farebbe sesso questo secondo *te*, ma non in senso generale!. Come puoi ben capire anche tu, non è questione di complessi di inferiorità o rabbia pseudo femminista. Dire a una donna, per strada, che è una bella gnocca, ci si prende libertà e confidenza come se fossero dovuti assolutamente d'accordo, la si spersonalizza per ridurla a puro oggetto sessuale questa mi sembra una affermazione quantomeno sbagliata... qualcuna si potrà anche sentire appagata, ma qualcun'altra, giustamente perché giustamente? chi lo dice che è giusto che sia così?, no.



Robin, mi chiedo come ti siano venute certe certezze granitiche che, peraltro, in molti qui non condividiamo.

Mi piacerebbe sapere ora che cosa si direbbe in inglese come corrispettivo di un appellativa tra amico e amica, che non abbia riferimenti di secondi fini sessuali, di registro estremamente informale! Insomma....ho perso il filo della discussione ma, scorrendo i post precedenti, mi sembra che ci siamo persi il vero senso iniziale: "*luv*" potrebbe fare al caso nostro?


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## Paulfromitaly

> *NOTA:*
> 
> Questa discussione ha già 71 posts (pure troppi..) nei quali è già stato detto di tutto e di più.
> Prima di aggiungere un altro messaggio alla lista assicuratevi di aver letto TUTTI gli interventi precedenti.
> Ricordo anche a tutti che questa è una discussione linguistica quindi lasciamo moralismi, politicizzazioni, maschilismi e femminismi fuori dalla discussione. Se proprio vi preme, discutetene tra di voi in sepatata sede.
> Grazie


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## fabri85

Potresti dire "hottie".. "luv" non ha a che fare con la bellezza ma va benissimo tra amici.. oppure "stud" per un ragazzo ma si stava parlando solo al femminile se non sbaglio.


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## giginho

Grazie Fabri, allora vada per Luv che, a quanto ho capito, è pure più "safe"!


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## fabri85

Ammetto di non aver capito bene cosa cercavi in realtà... un' espressione informale tra amici che sono solo amici intimi?


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## giginho

Colpa mia Fabri che non mi sono spiegato bene.

Io e una mia carissima amica da anni, amici intimi (ma non di letto..eheheh), praticamente la mia migliore amica. Capita che io la saluti con "ciao bella gnocca" senza avere intenzioni sessuali o rifarmi alla sua (evidente) bellezza.

Come direi in inglese: "hi luv!"? "Hi honey"?


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## fabri85

Sì, vanno benissimo sia love sia honey, se invece vuoi farle un complimento riguardo la sua bellezza puoi dirle hottie  mi viene in mente anche "pretty hot thing", non l'ho mai detto a un'amica ma è carina come espressione tra amici.


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## giginho

Grazie Fabri, sei stato gentilissimo!


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## chipulukusu

giginho said:


> Colpa mia Fabri che non mi sono spiegato bene.
> 
> Io e una mia carissima amica da anni, amici intimi (ma non di letto..eheheh), praticamente la mia migliore amica. Capita che io la saluti con "ciao bella gnocca" senza avere intenzioni sessuali o rifarmi alla sua (evidente) bellezza.
> 
> Come direi in inglese: "hi luv!"? "Hi honey"?



Ciao giginho!
"Hi luv" e "Hi honey" mi sembrano assolutamente innocui, però, e "unisex".
Tanto è vero che se vai nel Nord dell'Inghilterra, ma in parte anche nelle Midlands, un modo assolutamente normale di essere accolti in un negozio (intendo i piccoli negozi ancora rimasti) è proprio "Hi luv" o "Haya honey".
Le prime volte restavo un poco spiazzato, ma quando ci si fa l'abitudine non è affatto una cosa spiacevole. Devo dire che mi manca quando, spostandomi verso Sud, la frase più amichevole che mi sento rivolgere in un negozio è "Next please".
If not a grunt.


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## giginho

Ciao Chip!

Il punto è che non ho mai avuto una carissima amica inglese (che non parlasse italiano, ovvio) per cui non so come ci si potrebbe rivolgere a qualcuna con cui si è estremamente in confidenza volendo suonare fintamente "latin lover", essendo chiaro ad entrambi che non ci sono implicazioni di quel tipo!


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## chipulukusu

Penso che chi ti ha suggerito "hi hottie" abbia ragione, non mi viene in mente niente di meglio. Forse "Hi sweetie" ma non mi sembra abbia la stessa coloritura. Non so se si possa utilizzare scherzosamente un vecchio termine come "hi broad" or "hi broadie"... non so che significati possa avere assunto adesso, bisognerebbe sentire un madrelingua a scanso di rischi! Una volta era un termine abbastanza comune tra uomini per indicare le donne in generale (ma lo sentivo da mio nonno che viveva negli USA, quindi ti parlo di fine anni sessanta!).
Il problema è che non mi sono mai arrischiato a sperimentare, ho una moglie troppo gelosa


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## london calling

_Gnocca_ e _love (luv) _sono due registri totalmente diversi......._.love_ vuol dire bella, come si usa qui in senso...'neutrale' (ciao bella), non _gnocca_.


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## curiosone

I'd like to point out that "love" or "luv" sounds BE to me (in fact I first encountered the term reading a British novel set in Yorkshire). On the other hand "Honey" is used quite frequently in Kentucky (and in the Southeast U.S.) by sales clerks, etc.  However I think it's colloquial, as I've never heard it used in the North.  "Sweetie" however is an affectionate term used both in the North and South.


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## london calling

curiosone said:


> I'd like to point out that "love" or "luv" sounds BE to me.



Dead right.  And we don't (normally) say 'honey' in the UK, but we do say 'sweetie'.

But _love_ (l_uv_ is chatspeak, as far as I'm concerned: I only ever write in when texting or mailing someone and it  doesn't correspond to _(bella) gnocca_. And neither does 'sweetie'


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## Qwerty1972

Luc4 said:


> If someone tells you "gnocca" he is not (necessarily) judging you. He is only telling you that you are very pretty, not that your only relevant value is your physical aspect .
> Anyway, if I wanted to say the same thing to you, I would chose a different expression; I would never use such a word.


Hi my boyfriend is Italian and I am English.  He is from east Italy.  He referred to me in a message to his female cousin that I was "Grande Gnocca".  What do you think he meant by that?


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## giginho

Hi qwerty,

Very easy: he said you are very beautiful


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## King Crimson

Qwerty1972 said:


> Hi my boyfriend is Italian and I am English.  He is from east Italy.  He referred to me in a message to his female cousin that I was "Grande Gnocca".  What do you think he meant by that?



Welcome qwerty,
if you take the trouble to go through this 2-page thread you'll certainly acquaint yourself with all the nuances of this expression and satisfy your curiosity


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