# Someone else's



## RhoKappa

I am having trouble expressing this.  I know that кто-то means someone, but I cannot express how to say someone else's.  Here are some examples.

1. Yuri picked up the wrong suitcase at the airport.  Instead of his, he picked up someone else's.
2. Is that your idea, or someone else's?
3. Tanya never spends her own money, but tries to spend someone else's money.

Как сказать по-русски?


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## Rosett

Чей/чья/чьё/чьи-то (ещё|другой/ая/ое/ие).
Ещё may be redundant|optional, or put first.


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## Q-cumber

1, Юрий забрал не тот чемодан в аэропорту. Это был не его чемодан, а чей-то ещё.
2. Это ваша собственная идея, или чья-то (ещё)?
3. Таня никогда не тратит свои деньги, всегда старается потратить чьи-то. (...старается жить за чужой счёт, надеется на халяву).


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## Enquiring Mind

Let's not forget the fascinating adjective чужой, which has several meanings (often with negative connotations - outsider's, alien, foreigner, not "one of us", etc.) and is included on Natalia Gogolitsyna's list (source: bris.ac.uk) of "untranslatable" words. I'll leave it to the natives to decide how far it is appropriate in your examples (Q-cumber used it in 3 above). The word can often be translated as "someone's else's" in English:

B чужой монастырь со своим уставом не ходят - (don't take your own doctrine into someone else's monastery)
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Когда тебе в аэропорту на ногу наезжает чужой чемодан, и вместо "Oh, sorrу" ты слышишь "Съебался бл@!" , значит все — Родина.
You know you're home (in Russia) when someone else's suitcase runs over your foot ....

Как называют человека, который чужую идею выдает за свою? What do you call someone who passes off someone else's idea as his own?

Жить в чужом доме - living in someone else's house; тратить чужие деньги - spending _someone else's_ / _other people's_ money

_Житель Чувашии "прикарманил" чужие деньги из банкомата _(source: pg21.ru) -  pocketed someone else's money

«Проблема социализма в том, что у вас рано или поздно кончаются чужие деньги». (source: twitter.com)
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” (Margaret Thatcher)

And see this thread (though the meaning there isn't "someone else's").


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## Kirill V.

I agree with EM. _Чужой_ also works here, in some contexts maybe even better than _еще_.

_Юрий взял не свой чемодан, а чей-то чужой.
_
In the other two examples I personally prefer Q-cumber's suggestions above, though:


Q-cumber said:


> 2. Это ваша собственная идея, или чья-то (ещё)?
> 3. Таня никогда не тратит свои деньги, всегда старается потратить чьи-то. (...старается жить за чужой счёт, надеется на халяву).


The difference is stylistic.


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## Sobakus

_Чей-то_ standing on it's own to mean "someone else's" looks rather awkward to me, mainly because _чей-то_ means nothing more than "someone's" and this someone can be both you and someone else, so the resulting "your own or someone's" is rather tautological. I did think of it first as it's the literal translation, but then remembered the wonderful _чужо́й_ which works perfectly in all of the examples. _Чей-то чужой_ can be used if you need to underline uncertainty about the owner's identity.

_Чей-то ещё_ likewise may include the speaker in the meaning "both yours and someone else's" (although typically contrasted with _то́лько твой_), so I don't like it.


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## Q-cumber

Although the adjective "чужой" would fit seamlessly in many Russian sentences of this kind, it should be used carefully, as "чужой" might imply that 'something someone else's ' was stolen.  This is especially true when we talk about non-material things (intellectual property), i.e. ideas, scenarios, melodies and so on.  "Взять чужое" is an euphemism for "украсть".


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## Sobakus

Q-cumber said:


> "Взять чужое" is an euphemism for "украсть".


Inasmuch as "to take someone else's bag".


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Inasmuch as "to take someone else's bag".


While "чей-то" is fairly neutral and , using "чужой" instead of it would allude to a theft or misappropriation in most cases.

В шкафу лежат чьи-то вещи. (simply unidentified, neutral) = someone else's stuff (may be dumped or trashed, no longer possessed).
Это чужие вещи: не трогай их. (caveat) = the stuff belongs to someone else who rightfully owns it.

Contextually, they may be interchangeable when there is nothing prompting for theft, but generally a caveat would be needed for clarification purposes.("не трогай их.")


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> В шкафу лежат чьи-то вещи. (simply unidentified, neutral)
> Это чужие вещи: не трогай их. (caveat)


Please keep in mind that the subject expression is specifically *someone else's*, not just unidentified *someone's*, which is obviously _чей-то_. _Someone else's_ has nearly or exactly the same relationship to theft as _чужой._


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Please keep in mind that the subject expression is specifically *someone else's*, not just unidentified *someone's*, which is obviously _чей-то_. _Someone else's_ has nearly or exactly the same relationship to theft as _чужой._


We often drop "eщё" due to its redundancy, and it still remains "someone *else*'s."


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> We often drop "eщё" due to its redundancy, and it still remains "someone *else*'s."


В шкафу лежат чьи-то *ещё* вещи ≠ В шкафу лежат чьи-то вещи.

Ещё = additional, thus чей-то ещё = "belonging to someone in addition to the someone already mentioned", for ex.:

_На фотографии была Сашина машина и чья-то ещё. Когда я присмотрелся, оказалось, что это моя._ = "On the photo there was Sasha's car and someone else's. When I took a closer look, it turned out to be mine."


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> В шкафу лежат чьи-то *ещё* вещи ≠ В шкафу лежат чьи-то вещи.


It's fairly equal, because ещё is ambiguous in the given sentence, meaning possibly just "more stuff," "ещё вещи."


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> It's fairly equal, because ещё is ambiguous in the given sentence, meaning possibly just "more stuff," "ещё вещи."


"More stuff that belongs to someone else" is an impossible meaning for _чьи-то ещё вещи_ because _ещё_ has a hard-wired grammatical link with, and thus modifies _чьи-то_ first, and only in the absence of it does it modify _вещи_. The only possible meaning is thus "things belonging to someone else apart from the person already mentioned", as in my example in my now-edited post above.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> _На фотографии была Сашина машина и чья-то ещё. Когда я присмотрелся, оказалось, что это моя._ = "On the photo there was Sasha's car and someone else's. When I took a closer look, it turned out to be mine."


This particular example requires "ещё," however, this is not always the case.


Sobakus said:


> "More stuff that belongs to someone else" is an impossible meaning for _чьи-то ещё вещи_ because _ещё_ has a hard-wired grammatical link with, and thus modifies _чьи-то_ first, and only in the absence of it does it modify _вещи_. The only possible meaning is thus "things belonging to someone else apart from the person already mentioned", as in my example in my now-edited post above.


"Чьи-то" doesn't require "ещё" obligatory, so that "ещё" would easily associate with "вещи," depending on the actual situation.
"В шкафу лежат *ещё вещи,*" of unidentified ownership.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> "Чьи-то" doesn't require "ещё" obligatory, so that "ещё" would easily associate with "вещи," depending on the actual situation.


I don't agree that the phrase _чьи-то ещё вещи_ can be parsed as _чьи-то_ _ещё вещи_ – only _чьи-то ещё вещи_. _Ещё_ can only modify the noun phrase when it precedes or follows the noun phrase and bears no sentence stress, but when it breaks up the phrase, it modifies _чьи-то_ exclusively barring instances of jumbled, erratic speech. Definitely not for use in writing or language study.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> I don't agree that the phrase _чьи-то ещё вещи_ can be parsed as _чьи-то_ _ещё вещи_ – only _чьи-то ещё вещи_. _Ещё_ can only modify the noun phrase when it precedes or follows the noun phrase and bears no sentence stress, but when it breaks up the phrase, it modifies _чьи-то_ exclusively barring instances of jumbled, erratic speech. Definitely not for use in writing or language study.


Yes, the suggested phrase may be erratic due to its ambiguity.
If you want an unambiguous phrase in the OP given sense, feel free to put *ещё* before *чьи-то *(as mentioned in p.2.):
"В шкафу лежат *ещё чьи-то* вещи."


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> Yes, the suggested phrase may be erratic due to its ambiguity.
> If you want an unambiguous phrase in the OP given sense, feel free to put *ещё* before *чьи-то *(as mentioned in p.2.):
> "В шкафу лежат *ещё чьи-то* вещи."


But that translates to _"There's also someone's clothes in the wardrobe"._ _Ещё чьи-то_ and _чьи-то ещё_ can be compared to _also someone's _and _someone else's_. They surely aren't synonymous, and it's the latter that's relevant to this thread, and in it _«ещё»_ is as integral to the meaning as _"else's" _is. If you're saying that they ultimatley both mean "not one's own", that's entirely context dependent:
_«В шкафу лежат ещё чьи-то вещи. Скорее всего, мои.»_


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