# How are Ő and Ű written if the keyboard lacks tho



## ecomostro

In German instead of _ä_, _ö_ and _ü_ they write _ae_, _oe_ and _ue_ when there are using a keyboard without Umlaut vowels, or when otherwise needed like in URL names (e.g. _Süddeutsche_ --> _sueddeutsche.de_).
Now, what if an Hungarian is abroad using a typewriter without all diacritics on the vowels? Are the German conventions for Umlaut also valid?
And how are _ő_ and _ű_ typed?


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## Rallino

I saw people type:  o" u". Maybe that could help ?


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## bibax

Have you meant a mechanical typewriter?

In many European countries the typewriters usually have special keys at least for the acute accent (*´*) and diarhaesis (*¨*), so you can write *áéíóúöü*. The *ő* and *ű* can be written written: *" BACKSPACE o* and *" BACKSPACE u*. So you can write _magyarul_ for example on the Czech or Slovak mechanical typewriters.



> Are the German conventions for Umlaut also valid?


Probably no.

Anyway I think that the coding of the accented letters is (or certainly was in the past before Unicode) bigger problem than a keyboard layout itself.


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## Kadarka

You can use oe and ue for ö and ü. 
In the old-fashioned telegrams there weren't any accents either, so they used aa for á, ee for é, and of course oe and ue. I think ő or ű weren't differentiated but there are few words where it really changes the meaning.



bibax said:


> In many European countries the typewriters usually have special keys at least for the acute accent (*´*) and diarhaesis (*¨*), so you can write *áéíóúöü*.


I've just remembered they had this function on a computer keyboard in Germany, so I could write _magyarul _there


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## Encolpius

It took me a couple of years to find how to right ő and ű on a Czech computer keyboard simply, but it works only for Czech keyboards, it seems it does not work for English ones.  But who knows it could work for Italian ones.


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## sakvaka

You could also dig them up with charmap.exe, if you use Windows...


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## szivike

I've used the codes below for: 
á - alt+160, 
ö - alt+148, 
é - alt+130,
 í  - alt+161
ó - alt+162
ü - alt+129

but sadly I don't know the codes for the ű and ő. Also, as Rallino said o" and u" might work in certain cases.


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## bibax

On the standard MS Windows Czech (and probably other Central European) keyboard we use RightAlt + keys in the upper row to get diacritic signs (~ ˇ^˘°˛` ˙´˝¨¸).

For example:

RightAlt+0 Space -> ˝
RightAlt+0 o -> ő
RightAlt+0 U -> Ű

We can also write ß (German scharf ss), Ł Ż (Polish), Đ (Serbo-Croatian) etc.
RightAlt+E gives Euro sign € (already in Windows 98).


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## Encolpius

bibax said:


> On the standard MS Windows Czech (and probably other Central European) keyboard we use RightAlt + keys in the upper row to get diacritic signs (~ ˇ^˘°˛` ˙´˝¨¸).
> 
> For example:
> 
> RightAlt+0 Space -> ˝
> RightAlt+0 o -> ő
> RightAlt+0 U -> Ű
> 
> We can also write ß (German scharf ss), Ł Ż (Polish), Đ (Serbo-Croatian) etc.
> RightAlt+E gives Euro sign € (already in Windows 98).



What do you mean by RightAlt? I use Ctrl + Alt.


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## bibax

Ha! I did not know that Ctrl+Alt is also possible.

RightAlt is the key next to the spacebar, on the right side of the spacebar.

LeftAlt alone does not work.


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## sakvaka

bibax said:


> Ha! I did not know that Ctrl+Alt is also possible.
> 
> RightAlt is the key next to the spacebar, on the right side of the spacebar.
> 
> LeftAlt alone does not work.



On Finnish keyboards, it's also called AltGr. It equals Ctrl+Alt.


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## Encolpius

bibax said:


> Ha! I did not know that Ctrl+Alt is also possible.
> 
> RightAlt is the key next to the spacebar, on the right side of the spacebar.
> 
> LeftAlt alone does not work.



Sorry, I mixed up the right and the left.  But now I see. 
And I did not know your tip. But I dare say the *left Ctrl+Alt* is a little bit easier for right-handers.
Here are the characters I can create using left Ctrl+Alt: ê, ô, â, û, î, ă, å, ą, ę, į , è, à, ù, ì, ż, ė, ı, ç. 
The only problem is I cannot create the Portuguese ~ above vowels with Central European keyboard. 
Then you can create: \, |, €, đ, Đ, [, ], ł, Ł, $, ß, #, &. @, {, }, <, >.


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## szivike

Hmm, both alts on both sides of the keyboard seem to work for me on En-US keyboard layout in Windows Vista. I use the right one and then type the number on the numeric pad. I see how this might be an issue on laptops without numpads though...


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## Encolpius

szivike said:


> Hmm, both alts on both sides of the keyboard seem to work for me on En-US keyboard layout in Windows Vista. I use the right one and then type the number on the numeric pad. I see how this might be an issue on laptops without numpads though...



Oh, I think this is easy, Alt+numpad

*ű* = Alt + 251  

*ő* = Alt + 139

*Ő* - Alt + 138

*Ű* - Alt + 235

I hope it works on your PC too.


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## demon001

If you have Windows XP, Vista or 7, go to start => Run => type "charmap" without the quote. This will bring up a character map where you can pick and copy many non-standard letters such as ŐőŰű.


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## bibax

1. The "charmap" is the most inconvenient way when you want to write a letter in Hungarian.

2. Using ALT+nnn needs to remember all necessary codes (e.g. ALT+251 for ű). This way is rather inconvenient, too.

3. The AltGr+"a key-in-upper-row" way allows you to write the characters with diacritic signs with minimal effort. On the standard Czech keyboard the diacritic signs (~ˇ^˘°˛`˙´˝¨¸) are printed on the upper row keys.

Examples:
AltGr+"=" is always the cedille diacritic sign, it gives "¸" if followed by space and e.g. "Ç" if followed by upper case C.
AltGr+"-" is always the diarhaesis sign, it gives "¨" if followed by space and e.g. "ë" if followed by lower case e.

The standard Czech keyboard was introduced by MS and IBM several years after the fall of the Iron curtain (1989). It works at least from MS DOS ver. 6 (PC DOS ver. 7).

I wonder if other national standard keyboards support this fearure.


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## Encolpius

I must agree with bibax, using charmap is very inconvenient. The only case when I have to use it writing the azbuka (no longer, I have Cyrillic keys) or other writing (Greek, etc.).


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## MarianaElSalvador

Encolpius said:


> Oh, I think this is easy, Alt+numpad
> 
> *ű* = Alt + 251
> 
> *ő* = Alt + 139
> 
> *Ő* - Alt + 138
> 
> *Ű* - Alt + 235
> 
> I hope it works on your PC too.



Thanks Encolpius!!! It works and it's SO simple!!!


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## franknagy

Cannot you add a Hungarian keyboard under the globe icon of the Control Panel? 
Then you get the kbd layout:
0123456789öüó
QWERTZUIOPŐ
asdfghjkléáű
íyxcvbnm,.-


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## True North

Type in Hungarian characters online, then copy and paste: http://hungarian.typeit.org/


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## bibax

The web site doesn't work on my computer. Reportedly I have an unsupported browser . There are always some problems with the computers or such things.

The best way is the simplest one. On my Czech keyboard I can write áéíóú without any effort; öüÖÜ are also easy as we have a key for diarhesis ¨. The űőŰŐ can be written by AltGr+0 followed by uoUO. I need no Internet connection, no special software.

I can write csehül and magyarul (+ angolul, németül, etc.) simultaneously without changing keyboard. Mohu psát česky i maďarsky (anglicky, německy) současně bez přepínání klávesnice. Nincsem anyám, se apám, se istenem, se hazám, se csókom, se szeretőm, se bölcsőm, se szemfedőm. Příliš žluťoučký kůň zapěl ďábelské ódy.


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## Zsanna

As far as this forum is concerned, you can find all the special characters necessary (here above, as I'm typing or with and explanation here) in the reply window's toolbar (last position). But you can find several links in the Hungarian Resources Sticky (click) for usage otherwise.


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## Akitlosz

If you don't have *ő* and *ű *, then use *ö* and *ü *instead of them.This is the conventions.If you dont have *ő,**ű,**ö* and *ü*, then use* Alt Gr+˝ *or¨then* o *or* u *and you have* őöűü. *This is a good trick.
If you do not want it, then use* o* and *u* instead of them. This is'n a convention, but emergency.


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## Akitlosz

*á *= Alt+­­*160* — *Á* = Alt+­­*181*
*é* = Alt+*130* — *É* = Alt+*144­­*
*í* = Alt+*161*­­  —  *Í* = Alt+*214*­­
*ó* = Alt+*162*­­ — *Ó* = Alt+­­*224*
*ö* = Alt+­­*148* — *Ö* = Alt+*153*
*ő* = Alt+*139*­­ — *Ő* = Alt+*138*
*ú* = Alt+*163*­­ — *Ú* = Alt+*233*
*ü* = Alt+­­*129* — *Ü* = Alt+*154*
*ű* = Alt+*251* — *Ű* = Alt+*235*
  *ä* = Alt+­­*132* — *Ä* = Alt+­­*142*
*ë* = Alt+*137* — *Ë* = Alt+­­*211*
*ß* = Alt+­­*225*


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## franknagy

Hi!
Here is a quick and dirty solution.
Save the following two lines in a file and paste it in your editor.

ÁRVÍZTŰRŐ TÜKÖRFÚRÓGÉP

árvíztűrő tükörfúrógép
 As you can see the name of machine above contains all Hungarian accented characters.
Just copy and paste the required character in your main text.

See the sentece below:
"Jó foxim és Don Quijote húszwattos lámpánál ülve a dzsipben egy pár bűvös edzőcipőt készít." 
It is the Hungarian counterpart of "Jackdaw loves my sphynx of quartz".
It contains the combination "dz" and "dzs", as well as the foreign letters q,w,x.

Regards
    Frank


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## Zsanna

*Moderator's note:

Thank you all for your contributions. 
Until there is something revolutionary new in this topic, I'll close it because I feel that it has been discussed sufficiently for the moment.
If anybody had a completely new idea, please, contact the Hungarian Moderator who could reopen the thread after reflexion.*


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