# iris, pupil



## gaer

Hiro mentioned this:


			
				Hiro said:
			
		

> 黒い瞳　（Kuroi Hitomi ) mean "black beautiful eyes", but used for a woman.


I know about 瞳. It is the pupil The pupil is the only part of the eye that is actually black, but some people have brown eyes that are so dark that the whole eye looks like the same color.

I was unable to find out what the proper word for "iris" is in Japanese.

Gaer


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## SpiceMan

Iris is 虹彩 (こうさい). 

About kuroi hitomi, I think that there's no "beautiful" in it. Maybe an idiom?


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## pink dragon

SpiceMan said:


> Iris is 虹彩 (こうさい).
> 
> About kuroi hitomi, I think that there's no "beautiful" in it. Maybe an idiom?


You're right. "Kuroi hitomi" means just "black eye(s)".
Though we may tend to use "hitomi" for beautiful ones...Please see my #16 posting in the the 黒曜石 thread.  

Iris is "kousai" as you say.
But we usually say just "me no chairoi bubun" (the brown part of the eye).
If you say "kousai", most Japanese people, even ophthalmolotists will think of another kousai (交際, association), not this kousai 虹彩.


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## Flaminius

> Iris is "kousai" as you say.
> But we usually say just "me no chairoi bubun" (the brown part of the eye).


Well, I would say 黒目 (kurome), or the black part of the eye as opposed to 白目 (shirome), the white part.  And then, I realise it is a bit ethnocentric term....


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## gaer

Flaminius said:


> Well, I would say 黒目 (kurome), or the black part of the eye as opposed to 白目 (shirome), the white part. And then, I realise it is a bit ethnocentric term....


I believe it is ethnocentric. A person whose iris is very dark brown, appearing black, will have a pupil that is almost impossible to see, at least if you are not very close. Such a person would appear to have to parts to the eye, the white part and the black part (dark brown).

On the other hand, if someone has light blue eyes, the size of the pupil will be very noticeable, and in that case you can see the pupil grow or shrink according to many factors.

Gaer


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## gaer

pink dragon said:


> You're right. "Kuroi hitomi" means just "black eye(s)".
> Though we may tend to use "hitomi" for beautiful ones...Please see my #16 posting in the the 黒曜石 thread.
> 
> Iris is "kousai" as you say.
> But we usually say just "me no chairoi bubun" (the brown part of the eye).
> If you say "kousai", most Japanese people, even ophthalmolotists will think of another kousai (交際, association), not this kousai 虹彩.


黒い瞳 just means "black eye(s)", literally "black pupil(s)", because of the sound, right? And if you change it to 黒いひとめ、then this sound better to you because the last part, me, reminds you of 目、correct?

Do you think most Japanese people would agree with you? 

Gaer


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## pink dragon

gaer said:


> 黒い瞳 just means "black eye(s)", literally "black pupil(s)", because of the sound, right? And if you change it to 黒いひとめ、then this sound better to you because the last part, me, reminds you of 目、correct?
> 
> Do you think most Japanese people would agree with you?
> 
> Gaer


Yes, 黒い瞳 just means "black eye(s)", literally "black pupil(s)". But I'm not sure what you mean by "because of the sound".  

We never say "ひとめ". It should be either "hitomi" or "me".

Do I think most Japanese people would agree with me...about what? About the above answer? Yes, I guess so.


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## gaer

pink dragon said:


> Yes, 黒い瞳 just means "black eye(s)", literally "black pupil(s)". But I'm not sure what you mean by "because of the sound".
> 
> We never say "ひとめ". It should be either "hitomi" or "me".


This is what you wrote in another thread:


> _Dictionaries may say "hitomi" means a pupil, which is the black, center part of the eye, but we actually use it to mean the same thing as "me" (eyes)._


That was my confusion! I did not understand what you had written. I thought, incorrectly, that perhaps people sometimes SAID: "hitome".

My mistake. 

Gaer


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## Hiro Sasaki

SpiceMan said:


> Iris is 虹彩 (こうさい).
> 
> About kuroi hitomi, I think that there's no "beautiful" in it. Maybe an idiom?


 
Spiceman. "Kuroi Me" has no connotation of " beautiful black eyes",
but "Kuroi Hitomi " has a connotation of " beautiful black eyes".

Many Russians have no "black eyes" but there is a beautiful Russian folk song with the Japanese title "Kuroi Hitomi". and If I remember correctly, 
one of Julio Iglesia's song is "Kuroi Hitomi " .

"Watashi no me ga kuroi uchi ni " means "while I am alive ".


Hiro Sasaki


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## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> This is what you wrote in another thread:
> 
> That was my confusion! I did not understand what you had written. I thought, incorrectly, that perhaps people sometimes SAID: "hitome".
> 
> My mistake.
> 
> Gaer


 
Gaer san,

"Hito me" means " at the first sight" . 

Hiro Sasaki


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## Hiro Sasaki

http://utagoekissa.web.infoseek.co.jp/kuroihitomi.html
There are two versions of lyrics by the same poet for the Russian folk 
song" - Kuroi Hitomi.

In the first version, " Kuroi Me" is used but on the whole, with other 
poetic words, it does not sound bad.


The Japanese title of a Julio Iglesi's song is 黒い瞳のナタリー。


The phrase Kuroi Hitoi is used for other songs.


Hiro Sasaki


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## gaer

Hiro Sasaki said:


> Gaer san,
> 
> "Hito me" means " at the first sight" .
> 
> Hiro Sasaki


Sasaki-san,

彼は一目で彼女に恋をした。

He fell in love with her on first sight.

Is that correct? Is that what you mean?

Gaer


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## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> Sasaki-san,
> 
> 彼は一目で彼女に恋をした。
> 
> He fell in love with her on first sight.
> 
> Is that correct? Is that what you mean?
> 
> Gaer


 一目見て　is better.


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