# Urdu-Hindi: computer



## Faylasoof

Although the most commonly used word for computer by Urduphones and Hindiphones is کمپیوٹر  कंप्यूटर_ kampyuuTar_, at least one Urdu alternative has been proposed:

7aasib  حاسِب  or its derivative _7aasibah _حاسبہ . Neither are as yet accepted / found common usage.

The related term _7aasuub _حاسوب is used in Arabic for a computer and a suggestion was made to use it in Urdu too but this too hasn’t got any fans as yet!

I think the official term for computer in _shuddh_ Hindi is कलनित्र _kalanitra_.


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## BP.

_Haasib_-حاسِب, I can testify, is the word we used to read in Urdu science magazines back in the 8/90-s.


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _
> Haasib_-حاسِب, I can testify, is the word we used to read in Urdu science magazines back in the 8/90-s.



Yes! But unfortunately it hasn't caught on.


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## panjabigator

Hello everyone.

I understand the irritation over employing English words in lieu of perfectly good Urdu [or insert-language-here] words.  I'm reminded of Cilqui's example of تیل بدلنا versus ائل چینج کرنا, where the English equivalent becomes valorized as a "posher" sounding phrase than the Urdu equivalent.  I understand that type of shift as a representative of language ideology where English and English medium education is seen (or can be seen - correct me if I'm wrong) as a more elite enterprise, and so speakers who deploy English in their Urdu seek to seem more sophisticated or even cosmopolitan.  Or maybe this just represents another linguistic shift.

What confuses me is why حاسِب is better than کمپیوٹر.  I don't know the history of this word and so I'm curious to learn a bit more about it.


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## Faylasoof

PG,
Let me begin by saying I’m not a purest and recognize full well that languages borrow from each other. The point that I sometimes worry about is the extent to which this borrowing occurs. Both Urdu and English have a tradition of word-borrowing so imagine if we had the trend of English starting to borrow and use an inordinately large number of foreign words when you already have perfectly good English alternatives. 

When one read Urdu newspapers one notices the scale of this problem. Perfectly good Urdu and Hindi words are dropped and English words transliterated into Urdu and used as if we never had a decent vocabulary to begin with.

Concerning the issue of _7aasib _حاسِب, it is derived from the same root (ح-س - ب) as the word _7isaab _حساب(= calculation, reckoning etc.) which is well attested and has been used for long. A computer performs related activities - and a lot more now a days - but essentially it is doing the same kind of thing. Hence my argument for the word حاسِب for computer, knowing that it is unlikely to catch on because it is much trendier to use the English here as in so many other instances and as Cilqui indicated this would sound posh. English has acquired a status symbol. For many a bit like wearing a Rolex watch!


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## searcher123

We have a very famous equivalent for 'computer' in Persian that is رايانه. Albeit كامپيوتر is common in Persian too.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Yes; it is a pity this word حاسِب  (Haasib) hasn't caught on. Although its meaning is understandable even to Urdu speakers, I still think it is a bit mistaken. To describe machines normally, in Arabic, you don't choose the _*ism faa3il*_, but rather one of its emphatic forms... As they only do one task and repeatedly, while  حاسِب *Haasib* sounds like a noun for human beings... In pure Arabic, by the way, it is حاسوب _Haasuub_.


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## Koozagar

Hi All,
With all due respect, I disagree with the 'extent of borrowing' as a cause of concern. A language produces its own words for ideas, concepts, objects and feelings that are part of the cultural, social, economic and political environment of the language. Thus the majority of legal and _fiqh _related terms in Urdu come from Arabic, since the matters discussed were originally produced in Arabic and a large body of the work already existed in that language. Poetic vocabulary in Urdu, comes from Farsi and of course the indigenous Khari Boli (Note: I am certainly not arguing that there are strict boundaries between legal and poetic vocabulary).

The landscape of Urdu ghazal is also Farsi, rather than indigenous, it is indeed an import. 'bahaar' as a symbol of regeneration or better days is Farsi, as opposed to 'barsaat' which is indigenous. There was not only an indigenous word in the language for 'barsaat', because 'barsaat' indeed rejuvenated and was the most longed for meteorological intervention. 
But when the poetic landscape changes to Farsi, the word 'bahaar' is borrowed from that language as a representation of rejuvenation and new life.

Today Urdu remains quite vibrant in certain fields such as journalism, as it is the language of most of Pakistani press and Urdu press in India. There are several terms that I am sure all here are familiar with (I will try to compile a list and post). These terms are indigenous because the subject matter is indigenous. 

Now in sciences and technology, since there is little production of knowledge taking place in our part of the world, it is quite logical for Urdu to borrow from the language in which  the production of knowledge in that particular field is taking place, chiefly English. The other reason Urdu should not see borrowing from English in some way different from borrowing from Arabic, or detrimental to its health, is that English has been now spoken and written in our part of the world for over two hundred years. In fact it is a contemporary South Asian language, as opposed to Arabic, whose ties to the region were once stronger then they are now for a deep trade and scholastic relationship existed between Arabia and India and Sanskrit (later displaced by Farsi) and Arabic were chief languages of knowledge production. 
The notions of foreignness of English to Urdu and of nativeness of Arabic to it, quickly reveal themselves as aberrant, if you view the process of development of language not solely organic, but also spatially and temporally dynamic, where language opens new contact points with new languages as time brings about changes to its environment.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Koozagar said:


> The notions of foreignness of English to Urdu and of nativeness of Arabic to it, quickly reveal themselves as aberrant, if you view the process of development of language not solely organic, but also spatially and temporally dynamic, where language opens new contact points with new languages as time brings about changes to its environment.



I know I am no native speaker by I still feel the need to express my opinion on that point.

I couldn't agree less with you.

First of all, the morphology of English is totally alien to Urdu, which is not the case of Arabic and Farsi, which words were easily digested and sounds assimilated into Urdu... It gives this horrible words introduced in the daily speech that totally mess up the language as speakers have to twist and turn their tongues to pronounce them... 

And I repeat these words are alien to the morphology of Urdu... (let's see how ugly they look in written too). 



> su-par-in-Tan-DanT (Superintendent) = سپر انٹنڈنٹ (yuck)
> 
> kam-pyu-Tar (Computer) = کمپیوٹر  (akh...)
> 
> ay-so-si-eTs (Associates) = ایسو سی ایٹس  (thuu...)
> 
> And this is  just a sample, there is much worse than that !!!


I think there is one thing you are not aware of.... The kinds of borrowing that are done in Urdu presently are the first signs of an endangered language, a language in danger of Totally disappearing in the worst case scenario, or at best and most probably, which will become a creole of English in 50 years or so.... (You like creoles??? Look at the conditions of all the people who speak a creole in the world and you will see why I am concerned about the future of Urdu and its speakers)


so I don't agree that nothing should be made. An effort should be made to prevent all the unnecessary borrowings and why not, Urdu-ize things which have been imported....

If I follow your logic, which should we always give an English word to new things, some of them have been invented by the Germans, Russian, the French... Should we always look for the foreign word in Urdu??????

 According to the same logic should the French stop using the word ''ordinateur'' and replace it by ''computer''....

Borrowings are necessary in every language, but their quantity should be limited and reasonable, and most of all they should be digested by the language, such as a number of Foreign words which have been harmoniously digested by Urdu / Punjabi and don't sound foreign anymore = _*plaas*_ (pliers), *botal* (bottle), _*kamraa*_ (cambra= room), _*almaarii*_ (cupboard), *paraat* etc...

Plus, I will tell you something which has no scientific value at all, but which could be the gist of it...

There was a strong spiritual meaning behind all the Arabic and Farsi borrowings which you describe rightly so in your post.

Now if you equate the use of Arabic with our deviated molwis and therefore reject it, this i a grave mistake... Arabic and Farsi are the RuuH of Urdu, if you remove them, you kill the soul of the language.... And you get a soulless greedy and crime dominated English-creole speaking society......

P.S. = Hope you don't mind my tone. I understand your point of view and respect it, I don't feel like converting you to mine. I am no extremist, I just feel something should be done to save the language as it really is in danger of losing its soul first and then totally disappearing....


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## teaboy

Well, you are French - and the French are ever-worrying that their language will be tainted.  And the desi-distorted sounds of English are no more alien than ignored Arabic qaafs and ains -- that is just a matter of your own opinion.

However, as a native English-speaker, one of the things I like about Urdu is its ability/tendency to borrow from other languages.  It makes for a much more vibrant language.  It makes for a constantly evolving language, a living language.  English is the same way.  That is the strength of both languages: we have a great sea of words to choose from to express exactly what we want to say.

That said, I also don't like it when there are already perfectly good words in Urdu which have been employed for many decades or even centuries -- from Hindi, from Persian or Arabic or Turkish or whatever - and yet for cache, English is used instead.  

However on the subject of newly invented things, such as technology, I think that it is ridiculous to reach for an Arabic word which does not even encompass the full meaning of the object, just because it is _not_ English.  

Perhaps it is just a matter of time, of longevity in the system. How about Hindi's _doordarshan_ instead of _television_?  Which is better?  Neither.


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## BP.

teaboy said:


> Why is it then that if you came and sat with my extended family, some of us might not consider you a native-speaker of Urdu if you didn't say your qaafs right, even if you were born of native-speakers. It IS this bad, and we're not exactly Urdu-supremacists. And I honestly apologize for having sounded rude, but in the interest of honesty I have to say it as it is.
> 
> To the last part: even state-controls on the evolution language are matters of opinion in the end. You do put the threshold somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, as a native English-speaker, one of the things I like about Urdu is its ability/tendency to borrow from other languages.  It makes for a much more vibrant language.  It makes for a constantly evolving language, a living language.  English is the same way.  That is the strength of both languages: we have a great sea of words to choose from to express exactly what we want to say.
> 
> 
> 
> I think many people confuse the penchance for a people to borrow foreign words and the tendency of their language to do the same.
> 
> A living language belongs to a living culture belongs to a living people. Only a hypothesis, but you may test this against history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said, I also don't like it when there are already perfectly good words in Urdu which have been employed for many decades or even centuries -- from Hindi, from Persian or Arabic or Turkish or whatever - and yet for cache, English is used instead.
> 
> However on the subject of newly invented things, such as technology, I think that it is ridiculous to reach for an Arabic word which does not even encompass the full meaning of the object, just because it is _not_ English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed, and agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it is just a matter of time, of longevity in the system. How about Hindi's _doordarshan_ instead of _television_?  Which is better?  Neither.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the question should be "which is better, for which language?". Languages have classical inheritance, "etymological pathways" if you wish. Right or wrong (and it is even debatable if there is actually right and wrong here), we often if not always witness opposition when these pathways are interfered with.
> 
> It is worth noting that in the case of Urdu, British occupation could not radically change these pathways, yet we see it happening how. Was English linguistically weaker than than it is now? Or even economically?
> 
> What is happening is an interesting sociological research problem. For Urdu (and many other languages of its ilk) though, it is more of an existential one!
Click to expand...


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## teaboy

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Why is it then that if you came and sat with my extended family, some of us might not consider you a native-speaker of Urdu if you didn't say your qaafs right, even if you were born of native-speakers. It IS this bad, and we're not exactly Urdu-supremacists. And I honestly apologize for having sounded rude, but in the interest of honesty I have to say it as it is.



Reminds me of this famous quote: "Even if you do learn to speak correct English, whom are you going to speak it to?" -- Clarence Darrow 			

(And my mother the English prof would say "_to whom_ are you going to speak it!")


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Yes; it is a pity this word حاسِب  (Haasib) hasn't caught on. Although its meaning is understandable even to Urdu speakers, I still think it is a bit mistaken. To describe machines normally, in Arabic, you don't choose the _*ism faa3il*_, but rather one of its emphatic forms... As they only do one task and repeatedly, while  حاسِب *Haasib* sounds like a noun for human beings... In pure Arabic, by the way, it is حاسوب _Haasuub_.



I had suggested to the National language Authority (Islamabad) that this word (حاسوب) could possibly be _included _in our new Urdu vocabulary since حاسِب might also be regarded as a proper name! So far no response! 

Back in 1640s there were a lot of “computers” (حساب نگار) in Britain! These were walking, talking, breathing “computers” and their job was to “compute” (حساب كرنا /حساب نگاری كرنا  ). This “computation” (حساب نگاری) was all done in the head! So just the way the English word “computer” has acquired a new meaning (this time for a machine), so also can the words حاسِب and حساب نگار , which overtime may come to mean "computer". If we can use the English word then so can we use these or indeed حاسوب , which is a neologism. 

If of course we argue from the point of view of time then it can be said that it may apply to all of the above words! Over a course of time all may be available as synonyms which can make a language only richer!

I'm not against borrowing! Urdu had always borrowed. It is the lack of any obvious control that is troubling.
 


> ....
> To the last part: even state-controls on the evolution language are matters of opinion in the end. You do put the threshold somewhere.


This is precisely my point! Of course we can't legislate against any word usage (!) but when no effort is made to either invent technical vocabulary (although there is a lot more of this than some of us may imagine - see *here*), or try teach it if it exists, or _make a foreign word go "native" _- something that used to be done and a point we have discussed before - then we overwhelm a language with a deluge of foreign words from a langauge that is tradiotnally not its source. As you say, here:


> I think the question should be "which is better, for which language?". Languages have classical inheritance, "etymological pathways" if you wish.
> ....




As for this point,


> It is worth noting that in the case of Urdu, British occupation could not radically change these pathways, yet we see it happening how. Was English linguistically weaker than than it is now? Or even economically?


I don't think English was necessarily "weaker" then nor was it a question of economics. If anything, we were the weaker party. It has more to do with losing our traditonal centres of Urdu in Delhi and Lucknow, not to mention Hyderabad Deccan that later produced works of standard Urdu as did Lahore. There was a period of a few decades either side of partition when control over standardised Urdu vocabulary seems to have weakened.


> What is happening is an interesting sociological research problem. For Urdu (and many other languages of its ilk) though, it is more of an existential one!


I agree!


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## panjabigator

Seems like we talked about this a bit here, if anyone is interested.


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## Sheikh_14

Now lets get back to the point at hand, which is that is Computer and its transliterated descendant _kampyuuTar _a fit for urdu for which my personal opinion would be yes. The reason being not only that it is the accepted form for that would be a direct contradiction to my own stated beliefs but that not even Arabic uses the terms given above or at least not enough to be understood by many. If I am not wrong it is only if ever used for IT occupations. There is an understandable reason for that and I feel the same applies for Urdu which is that unlike English neither Urdu nor Arabic have more than one word for calculating which means that any word that includes hisaab will be perceived as a number crunching machine i.e. a calculator and not a modern day Computer which is far more versatile. Therefore, I would contend that Haasib and its derivative Haasiba be used for Calculator and it only. In fact it is a quick and easy alternative to the english Calculator and is more likely to catch on.

What is more pertinent and worthy of resolving is now that we have accepted Computer, how should we proceed with it in its constructions such as Computerised and computerisation, what suffixes do we have at our disposal to clear this mess which needs immediate handling rather than a bickering battle over the fitness of computer itself?


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## HZKhan

I've seen 'shumaaranda/شمارندہ' being used on Urdu wikipedia.


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## marrish

All the suggestions and points of view deserve attention still the first word that entered the language and its reign remains supreme is kampyuuTar. When the thing was not so widespread yet, some wise people referred to it as _Haasib_, as a matter of fact I encountered it even in the late nineties, but to call a computer in another way seems not to be possible anymore. Now that 'tablets' = _golii_, laptops, desktops, PCs, smartphones etc are popular computers we could have a word or two about these.

I didn't know about shumaarandah. It is laudable that the contributors of Urdu wikipedia do their best to avoid anglicisms.


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Now that 'tablets' = _golii_, laptops, desktops, PCs, smartphones etc are popular computers we could have a word or two about these.
> ...
> It is laudable that the contributors of Urdu wikipedia do their best to avoid anglicisms.


Here are a few suggestions:

_tablet:_ برقی) تختی/لوح) 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: لوحی شمارندہ یا لوح
_laptop:_ سفری/دستی) کمپیوٹر/حاسوب/شمارندہ) 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: آغوشیہ، (آغوشی/محمولی) شمارندہ
_desktop:_ مکتبی کمپیوٹر/حاسوب 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: برمیزی شمارندہ
_personal computer:_ نجی/ذاتی) کمپیوٹر/حاسوب/شمارندہ) 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: ذاتی شمارندہ
_smart phone:_ ذہین ہاتف 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: ذکی محمول
_smart television:_ ذہین دور بصری 

Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest بعید نما for _television_...!
Previous threads in the forum on this topic: Urdu:TV / Television ; Urdu: A TV Set

_smart watch:_ ذہین گھڑی/ساعت
_
etc._ - وغیرہ

*Note:* As has been stressed above (by using _seems_ and _currently_), all information from Urdu Wikipedia is based on what was present on the pages at the time this post was being posted here in the forum. Since the pages of Wikipedia can be edited, the information may not remain the same in the future! There is no intention of misquoting!


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## sanskrut_bhashik

संगणक (sangaNak) is a root word in Sanskrit which can be directly used in Hindi.

It can be (san/sam+ gaNak) - together+calculator/counter.

 गणना (gaNanaa) is a common Hindi word meaning 'counting' or 'calculating'.

The root word in Sanskrit is गण (gaNa).

गणित (gaNit) in Hindi is for Mathematics.

संगणक: is first case singular in Sanskrit.


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## mundiya

"kalanitra" doesn't really have currency in Hindi and isn't the "official term".

What is the official term for computer in _saaf _Urdu?


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## thelastchoice

The Arabic word for computer is حاسب and  حاسوب. These words are both derived from the root حَسَبَ Hasaba which means literally "to compute" or to "calculate. So حاسب Hasib is a literal translation as is it means the one who calculates or computes. Also, حاسب is اسم فاعل Active Participle. On the other hand, حاسوب is a tool name with form فاعول which is used to derive names of tools and devices. It is a superlative form of حاسب which means roughly the one that computes more.


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## Sheikh_14

Alfaaz said:


> Here are a few suggestions:
> 
> _tablet:_ برقی) تختی/لوح)
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: لوحی شمارندہ یا لوح
> _laptop:_ سفری/دستی) کمپیوٹر/حاسوب/شمارندہ)
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: آغوشیہ، (آغوشی/محمولی) شمارندہ
> _desktop:_ مکتبی کمپیوٹر/حاسوب
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: برمیزی شمارندہ
> _personal computer:_ نجی/ذاتی) کمپیوٹر/حاسوب/شمارندہ)
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: ذاتی شمارندہ
> _smart phone:_ ذہین ہاتف
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest: ذکی محمول
> _smart television:_ ذہین دور بصری
> 
> 
> Urdu Wikipedia seems to currently suggest بعید نما for _television_...!
> Previous threads in the forum on this topic: Urdu:TV / Television ; Urdu: A TV Set
> 
> _smart watch:_ ذہین گھڑی/ساعت
> 
> _etc._ - وغیرہ
> 
> *Note:* As has been stressed above (by using _seems_ and _currently_), all information from Urdu Wikipedia is based on what was present on the pages at the time this post was being posted here in the forum. Since the pages of Wikipedia can be edited, the information may not remain the same in the future! There is no intention of misquoting!



In my humble opinion Haasib is best used and understood for a calculator since all it does is Hisaab. Rekhta offers it as the primary definition and that to me makes sense حاسِب لفظ کے معانی | حاسِب - Urdu meaning | Rekhta Dictionary.

If by extension we were to stick to kampuuTar or opt for Haasuub for a computer then how would we go about describing the following:

Computerisation- kampuuTar/Haasuub-kaarii/bandii?
Computerised- KampuuTar/Haasuub-karda/band?
Computer generated imagery i.e. CGI- KampuuTar/Haasuub karda/band 'aksaat/tasaaweer/'aks?


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## Alfaaz

Sheikh_14 said:
			
		

> ... how would we go about describing the following:
> 
> ... kaarii/bandii?
> ... karda/band?
> ... generated imagery i.e. CGI- ... karda/band ...


کاری و کردہ are usually used for _-ization_ and _-ized_.
ساختہ could perhaps be used for _-generated_.


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## Sheikh_14

"Haasuub/kampuuTar-kaarii kaa silsila/a'ml jaarii hai."
"Hasuub/kampuTar-karda nizaam". Can also be KampuTarii/Haasuubii Nizaam for a computerised system. For instance in Dari (possibly in Farsi too) they use Aanliinii for anything related to online. 
Haasuub/kampuuTar-saaxta tasweereiN/'aks.

What are your thoughts on the above?

Btw does 'aks I.e. imagery have a plural form in Urdu?


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## Pokeflute

In Hindi class they taught us संगणक (sangaNRak) for "computer", but I have never heard the word spoken in my life.

It exists, though (gets more hits on google than कलनित्र kalintra)


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## Sheikh_14

Pokeflute said:


> In Hindi class they taught us संगणक (sangaNRak) for "computer", but I have never heard the word spoken in my life.
> 
> It exists, though (gets more hits on google than कलनित्र kalintra)


Unfortunately, strange imperialist inferiority complexes exist on both sides of the border. A debate was all the rage a few days on digital social media over how backward the Urdu term kiliidii-taxta was for a keyboard. I for one do not understand the backwardness, its quite a nifty term. Urdu Lughat.

کلیدی تختہ - Wiktionary
کلیدی تختہ

Also for those who claim it is a calque must note that English is the global lingua franca or de facto language, thence many languages and the vast majority of Middle Eastern ones have adopted calques for this term be it Urdu, Turkish or Arabic.
My only question would be which one do Urdu-phones prefer kiliidii-taxtii or taxta, I would say the latter because it is a keyboard, not a key-slate? A tablet is more of a taxtii than a keyboard. At least thats my two cents to the debate. Perhaps the difference between the two could be that a small mobile-phone-sized keyboard could be a taxtii and a laptop/computer keyboard a taxta since one is the diminutive of the latter.

I quite like Barqii LouH/taxtii for a tablet as has been opined by Janaab Alfaaz. I would add that Bijlii-taxtii/louH would work just as well and be better understood. 

Nothing here is written in stone.

Thank you for chiming in.


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