# Masaryk se zasloužil o stát



## winpoj

Ahoj, nenapadá Vás, jak to výstižně převést do AJ?


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## werrr

Something like this:

_Masaryk is a man of great merit for the state._​


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## jazyk

Czechoslovakia owes its existence to Masaryk?


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## littledogboy

Myslím, že původním účelem bylo vytvořit krátkou dobře znějící frázi s minimem významu. Při převodu do aj však (souhlasím s jazykem) musíme specifikovat, že se zasloužil o jeho vznik.

_Masaryk had merit in (the?) foundation of the state._


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## werrr

littledogboy said:


> Myslím, že původním účelem bylo vytvořit krátkou dobře znějící frázi s minimem významu.


Účelem bylo změnit zákony tak, aby se TGM mohl ucházet znovu o úřad. Aby autoři získali dostatečnou parlamentní podporu, museli se vyhnout jakýmkoliv výrokům, které by mohly vést ke sporům o státoprávním uspořádání mezi Čechy a Slováky, proto není stát jmenován. Ještě důležitější bylo vyhnout se sporům mezi zastánci domácího a zahraničního odboje o to, kdo je strůjcem založení státu. V této záležitosti by zákon narazil už u některých předkladatelů, např. Viktor Dyk nepovažoval Masaryka za zakladatele státu a tuto roli přisuzoval mužům 28. října včele s Rašínem.



> Při převodu do aj však (souhlasím s jazykem) musíme specifikovat, že se zasloužil o jeho vznik.


Právě naopak! Při překladu právního textu musí umění ustoupit významové přesnosti.

Co třeba tohle?_
Masaryk contributed to the statehood._​


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## Enquiring Mind

An interesting discussion, friends.  Unfortunately I didn't learn your beautiful language at my grandmother's knee, as you all (probably) did, so I hope you don't mind if I continue in English.   It seems to me that there are two difficulties in the statement. Firstly - as previous posters have mentioned - the Czech is (deliberately) not specific, and secondly the phrase is more of an opinion than a fact, and is therefore open to discussion.  

Does the statement mean TGM *alone* deserves the credit for the foundation/establishment of the state?   I would guess not, so in English we can't say TGM deserves *the* credit for .... (that would mean "měl veškerou zásluhu", i.e. that no other person or factor contributed to the foundation of the state). We could say *deserves credit* for (without *the*).  Many would argue that this underplays TGM's role.  Then there is a a problem in English with "o stát" because in English we need some sort of verb or noun to modify the word "stát", such as "the foundation/establishment/existence" of the state.

All the suggestions in the previous posts so far are good, in my opinion, but I would like to suggest a few more (with the proviso, as mentioned above, that they are contentious).
*TGM deserves much* (or even *most*) *of the credit for *the establishment/foundation/existence of the state...  or "our statehood".
*It is (largely/mostly) to the credit of TGM* that _the state came into being_/_we achieved statehood_.
TGM *was instrumental in *founding/establishing our country's statehood ... or bringing the state into being/into existence.
TGM was a major/significant/key figure in the establishment of ...
Maybe even *TGM was the father of the state* ... but I acknowledge many would argue this is contentious, and goes further than the statement made, but it does have the redeeming feature of being short and pithy (and also rather vague) like the statement in Czech.


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## werrr

Enquiring Mind said:


> It seems to me that there are two difficulties in the statement. Firstly - as previous posters have mentioned - the Czech is (deliberately) not specific, and secondly the phrase is more of an opinion than a fact, and is therefore open to discussion.


It is not opinion, it is an award and words of praise. The phrase "zasloužil se o stát" is the kind of phrases which is put on awards or memorials. Something alike "padl za vlast".

Perhaps we could get rid of the verb and of the structure of a sentence and translate it this way:
*T. G. Masaryk

For Meritorious Service to the State
*​



> Does the statement mean TGM *alone* deserves the credit for the foundation/establishment of the state?


Every year President awards some persons (including artists and sportsmen) for meritious service to the state, is it answer to your question?



> ...TGM was a major/significant/key figure in the establishment of ...
> Maybe even *TGM was the father of the state* ... but I acknowledge many would argue this is contentious, and goes further than the statement made, but it does have the redeeming feature of being short and pithy (and also rather vague) like the statement in Czech.


You have to be careful here as the local people enjoyed statehood long before the establishing of Czechoslovakia. Father of the state is dangerously close to the Father of the Country which is a well-established title of honour of Charles IV (still nobody considers Charles IV the founder of the country!).

Masaryk was not called a father of anything, he was called "daddy" (tatíček) without any attributes.


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## Enquiring Mind

*For Meritorious Service to the State *- excellent translation for the inscription on a memorial or citation on an award, werrr, and thanks for the further explanations.  In this sort of context, it would certainly be best to do away with the verb, as you say.  
My offerings were based on the fact that the original poster didn't say he was looking for the equivalent of a citation, he just asked for a fitting translation of the phrase, but didn't give a context.


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## littledogboy

Interesting. Originally I felt strongly that there is _foundation_ (of statehood) somehow implicit in the Czech sentence, but werrr convinced me it's not.

I also learned that while _zasloužit si _= to merit, _zasloužit se _musíme přeložit jinak, good suggestions by Enquiring Mind.

By the way, víte že mezi nositeli Medaile Za zásluhy jsou Jaromír Jágr a Karel Gott?


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## werrr

Enquiring Mind said:


> My offerings were based on the fact that the original poster didn't say he was looking for the equivalent of a citation, he just asked for a fitting translation of the phrase, but didn't give a context.


So, for the benefit of foreigners, the context of the phrase is so-called Lex Masaryk, a controversial bill approved by Czechoslovak Parliament in 1930. The complete wording of the bill:


> § 1.
> 
> (1) T. G. Masaryk zasloužil se o stát.
> 
> (2) Výrok tento budiž na věčnou paměť vtesán do kamene v obou sněmovnách Národního shromáždění.
> 
> § 2.
> 
> Zákon tento provede vláda.





Enquiring Mind said:


> In this sort of context, it would certainly be best to do away with the verb, as you say.


 Well, it needn't be so appropriate as the phrase lives on its own in popular culture as an opinioned political statement.


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