# Envelope was sitting on the desk



## Mahootsukai

Hi, all! I came across this expression in a book "an envelope was sitting on the desk". Is it a kind of figure of speech or just a normal  expression ? I thought an envelope could only "lie" not "sit" on the table...
Than you in advance!


----------



## Rover_KE

Did you consult our dictionary?



> *sit
> *
> v 3 to be located or situated; lie or rest:[no object]
> _The house sits on a cliff_.


----------



## WyomingSue

I do agree with Mahootsukai though, that it would be more normal for an envelope to lie on a desk.


----------



## sdgraham

WyomingSue said:


> I do agree with Mahootsukai though, that it would be more normal for an envelope to lie on a desk.


----------



## Mahootsukai

Thank you all for your answers


----------



## se16teddy

_Sit_ suggests possible nuances that _lie_ does not. For example, we sit when we are waiting for something interesting to happen.


----------



## Packard

There might be some difference in "dormancy" between "sit on the desk" and "lie on the desk".  

The second sounds a bit more like it has been there a while (and probably neglected or overlooked).  The former sounds like it is awaiting some action.

(I may be reading more into this than actually exists however.)


----------



## Mahootsukai

se16teddy said:


> _Sit_ suggests possible nuances that _lie_ does not. For example, we sit when we are waiting for something interesting to happen.


Ah, now I can feel the nuance! Great, thank you!


----------



## Mahootsukai

Packard said:


> There might be some difference in "dormancy" between "sit on the desk" and "lie on the desk".
> 
> The second sounds a bit more like it has been there a while (and probably neglected or overlooked).  The former sounds like it is awaiting some action.
> 
> (I may be reading more into this than actually exists however.)


Yes, now I get the meaning of the words. Thank you very much!


----------



## zaffy

"The book lay on the table for six weeks before anyone realized where it was."

Understandably a book is most often situated in a horizontal position if it is on a table, but how about keeping it on a shelf in a vertical position? Is it still laying or sitting or either? "The book lay/sat on the shelf for six weeks before anyone realized where it was."


----------



## heypresto

It's usual to talk of books _sitting_ on shelves, so we'd say 'The book sat . . . '.


I used to work in a bookshop, and many of our books sat on the shelves for _years_ before anybody noticed them.


----------



## zaffy

And if there is a book on the desk at which I'm sitting now and writing this, can I use either or which is more natural to use? And how about the speaker you see in the pic that is next to the book?  It is sitting there, right?  For example,

"I was working on my computer with a book lying/sitting next to my left elbow, and suddenly the speaker that was sitting to the left of the monitor started to make a funny noise"


----------



## heypresto

I'd say the book was _lying_ on the desk, and the speaker was _standing_ on the desk.


----------



## Packard

heypresto said:


> I'd say the book was _lying_ on the desk, and the speaker was _standing_ on the desk.


I guess it is just another metaphor, but “resting” works for me too.


----------



## lingobingo

I wouldn’t use a verb at all. 

I was working on my computer, with a book next to my left elbow, when suddenly the speaker to the left of the monitor started making a funny noise.


----------



## zaffy

1. 





heypresto said:


> I'd say the book was _lying_ on the desk, and the speaker was _standing_ on the desk.



As for the speaker, 'sitting' doesn't fit at all?

2. Actually it is all very complicated. Things can lie, sit, stand, rest. In Polish most things lie or stand. And what do a pair of shoes do under a bed or in an wardrobe? Lie? Sit?

3. How about a car in the garage at home. In Polish we will say "Where is your car?" "It is standing in the garage." Would that work? I believe you will say it is sitting in the garage. Is sitting the only possibility?


----------



## heypresto

Cars may be _standing in,_ or be _parked in_, or _far _more likely, be simply _in _the garage. But they won't _be sitting _in the garage.

Shoes don't do anything, they just 'are' under the bed.


----------



## Packard

zaffy said:


> And what do a pair of shoes do under a bed or in an wardrobe? Lie? Sit?



Like a faithful dog, they “wait”.


----------



## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Cars may be _standing in,_ or be _parked in_, or _far _more likely, be simply _in _the garage. But they won't _be sitting _in the garage.
> 
> Shoes don't do anything, they just 'are' under the bed.



Maybe it isn't just about a garage, but I have seen many examples of cars sitting, rather than standing, for example, "How to start a car that's been sitting for years" or "My car has been sitting for 2 weeks and it won't start, what's wrong?" 

The same about shoes. I saw this example somewhere, "These boots have been lying under my bed for 2 years now. Can you remove them?"


----------



## kentix

Cars can sit where I live.


----------



## Andygc

A car can sit where I live, too. To be pedantic, mine can't as I have no driveway, but the car is, at this very moment, sitting by the kerb just around the corner of the street. My loudspeakers sit on my computer desk, and the bass unit sits on the floor below the desk. One of the printers sits on top of a filing cabinet. I have no problem with an envelope sitting on a desk, particularly if it looks like an unwelcome one. Junk mail lies on the floor, waiting to be recycled, unread.


----------



## lingobingo

I find it weird too. Maybe it’s an AE/BE thing.


----------



## zaffy

kentix said:


> Cars can sit where I live.



So these three are correct and natural, right?

-Tom's car has been parked in my garage for two weeks.
-Tom's car has been sitting in my garage for two weeks.
-Tom's car has been standing in my garage for two weeks.


----------



## lingobingo

Tom's car has been sitting in my garage for two weeks.​
Ah, well. That one sounds perfectly idiomatic, even in BE, but the context is quite specific. When anything has been “hanging around” for some time, we often say, for example, “It’s been sitting there for weeks, doing nothing”, and this could be applied just as well to a car as anything else.


----------



## kentix

I wouldn't use "standing" for a car in a garage. That one sounds weird to me.


----------



## Andygc

lingobingo said:


> I find it weird too. Maybe it’s an AE/BE thing.


Umm. What do you find weird? There's been a lot of lying, standing and sitting in this thread, not forgetting some shoes waiting.


----------



## lingobingo

That was in agreement with heypresto’s post #17.


----------



## Packard

_Getting ready for an evening on the town, Priscilla went to the closet. A sexy red sheath dress was there *demanding* she put it on._

With context, I am now convinced, almost anything will work.


----------



## zaffy

1. 





kentix said:


> I wouldn't use "standing" for a car in a garage. That one sounds weird to me.



I've also been told somewhere that cars can't 'stand'. But as I see it now, they can, but in BE, right?


2. Say there was a huge traffic jam, hundrerds of cars in a line. Now what do I say? "I saw hundreds of car sitting/standing in a huge traffic jam" Correct?


----------



## kentix

In American English you sit in a traffic jam.


----------



## Packard

zaffy said:


> 1.
> 
> I've also been told somewhere that cars can't 'stand'. But as I see it now, they can, but in BE, right?
> 
> 
> 2. Say there was a huge traffic jam, hundrerds of cars in a line. Now what do I say? "I saw hundreds of car sitting/standing in a huge traffic jam" Correct?




And, “There it stood, exactly where I left it, with four flat tires.”


----------



## zaffy

Packard said:


> And, “There it stood, exactly where I left it, with four flat tires.”



And, “There it sat, exactly where I left it, with four flat tires.”  - Sit also fits, right?


----------



## RM1(SS)

Not for me.


----------



## kentix

It works for me.


----------



## zaffy

kentix said:


> Cars can sit where I live.





Andygc said:


> A car can sit where I live, too.





RM1(SS) said:


> Not for me.





heypresto said:


> Cars may be _standing in,_ or be _parked in_, But they won't _be sitting _in the garage.



I'm lost. So why is it so that some you accept it some of you don't? Which verb is the safest as for cars?  Just 'park' only? But still, is it better to use 'sit' or 'stand' for cars?


----------



## heypresto

For me, they can certainly sit in some contexts, but in your context: "Where is your car?" "It is standing in the garage.", 'sitting' would sound a little odd. For others, it appears to be fine.

But don't be too concerned that we don't all agree about everything. We're not robots all programmed by a supreme master or god of 'correct' English to say or think the exactly same as each other in all contexts.


----------



## zaffy

And how about this desk? I would say that the note/bill is lying, the box is sitting and the vodka is standing. Am I right?


----------



## london calling

Yes, but if someone said they were all 'sitting' on the desk I wouldn't bat an eyelid, personally.


----------



## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> And how about this desk? I would say that the note/bill is lying, the box is sitting and the vodka is standing. Am I right?


These verbs are all some sort of anthropomorphization, so the proportions/orientation of the object with respect to the surface make sense


----------



## zaffy

And how about these bikes? In Polish as for the first we would use 'stand' and as for the second 'sit', even though they are standing. For example,

"Who's left that bike standing in the middle of the street?"
"Look at these few bikes I found in the attic." "Wow, they must have been sitting up there for ages"

So would those sentences work the same way in English?


----------



## zaffy

I asked a BrE speaker (South Molton, England) on another forum what he thought of cars sitting/standing and he said I believe quite wisely:

_*"Cars have in the past often been referred to as "she", so attributing to them the ability to sit or stand is in common usage. "Sit" is used because the vehicle is motionless, "stand" is used because the body is clear of the road." *_


----------



## Andygc

I don't see that thinking of a car as "she" comes into it. I thought that went out for anything other than vintage cars about the time I was born. Certainly my first car (1971) and all its successors have been "it".

There's a chair standing in my hall, and a table stands in the middle of my dining room. My wife's orchids sit on a high windowsill and the kettle sits on the kitchen worktop. I see that standing could imply legs, but in reality it doesn't. The bookcases that stand in my lounge have no legs, so although they are definitely not sitting, they aren't clear of the floor. My desk doesn't have legs either, and it stands against the wall.


----------



## zaffy

Andygc said:


> My wife's orchids sit on a high windowsill and the kettle sits on the kitchen worktop.



In Polish both the orchids and the kettle would 'stand' over there  Would you accept 'stand' or they definitely 'sit' there?


----------



## kentix

I could happily substitute sit for most of your stands.

There's a table sitting in the middle of the room. There's a chair sitting in the hall.


----------



## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Cars may be _standing in,_ or be _parked in_, or _far _more likely, be simply _in _the garage. But they won't _be sitting _in the garage.





kentix said:


> I wouldn't use "standing" for a car in a garage. That one sounds weird to me.



So in BE cars 'stand' and in AE 'sit' in a garage?


----------



## Andygc

zaffy said:


> So in BE cars 'stand' and in AE 'sit' in a garage?


There's plenty of posts in this thread that refute that statement, including mine.


----------



## lingobingo

zaffy said:


> So in BE cars 'stand' and in AE 'sit' in a garage?


How did you reach that conclusion? Of your three alternatives in #23, the “standing” one is by far the least likely to be said by a Brit.

In fact, as heypresto says in #17, we’re far more likely not to use either of those verbs, or indeed any other, simply to state the normal whereabouts of a car.

Where’s the car? — It’s [parked] round the corner. It’s in the garage. It’s on the drive.


----------



## JulianStuart

heypresto said:


> But don't be too concerned that we don't all agree about everything. We're not robots all programmed by a supreme master or god of 'correct' English to say or think the exactly same as each other in all contexts.


  
Several times in this thread, you have said "In Pollish , XYZ happens".  You need to try and forget that and understand the variations people have explained that happen in English.


----------



## Myridon

zaffy said:


> So in BE cars 'stand' and in AE 'sit' in a garage?


If someone said the car was sitting in the garage, I would assume that they meant that it wasn't being used, i.e. it had been parked there for some time and no one intened to drive it any time soon.


----------



## zaffy

Myridon said:


> If someone said the car was sitting in the garage, I would assume that they meant that it wasn't being used, i.e. it had been parked there for some time and no one intened to drive it any time soon.



And if the car was being used, it was just in the garage at the moment of speaking, you would expect 'stand' or 'park', right?


----------



## lingobingo

Neither. See examples in #47.


----------



## Myridon

zaffy said:


> And if the car was being used, it was just in the garage at the moment of speaking, you would expect 'stand' or 'park', right?


 No, AmE doesn't use "stand" for cars. The car is in the garage.  The car is parked in the garage. is okay but it would seem redundant with no other context to explain why you've added "parked".


----------



## sdgraham

Myridon said:


> No, AmE doesn't use "stand" for cars. The car is in the garage.  The car is parked in the garage. is okay but it would seem redundant with no other context to explain why you've added "parked".


  
Indeed. If it's in the garage, nobody would think that it was moving.


----------



## deadinsect

for me (UK English) pretty much any object could, in some cases, be described as sitting. But to use the word sitting for object implies something.

It often implies a time aspect, like a dog sitting waiting for its owner:
"Where's the TPS report?"
"It's been sat on my desk for days (waiting for you to pick it up.)"

or it can paint the idea that someone is sat in the wrong place:
"Why is all the shopping still just sitting in the hall?"
"There's cooked meat sitting right next to the vegetable tray!!!!"

Or it can  simply mean "locates itself", but it gives the feel of destiny or choice to the object.
"Turkey sits at the meeting point of the great cultures of Europe and Asia"

@zaffy bikes and cars could both be sitting or standing, depending on the context.


----------



## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> And if the car was being used, it was just in the garage at the moment of speaking, you would expect 'stand' or 'park', right?


Much more likely is the simple "is in the garage"


----------



## zaffy

So this forum post was written by a Brit, right? 

_I drive the 5.7L Hemi version of the 300C rather than the SRT8, and with that I have found it's a bucket of quality problems. For over 2.5 years I was visiting the dealership monthly for warranty fixes, a number of which were performed repeatedly. Now that I have drastically reduced the monthly mileage of my 300C, preferring to drive my other cars, the problems are now taking 2 months (rather than 1) to reveal themselves (although one problem seems to have emerged whilst *the car was standing in the garage* undriven for about a week, WTF!). _


----------



## JulianStuart

The "giveaway" there is the use of the (almost?) exclusively BE word "whilst"


----------



## lingobingo

It would have been even more usual for whoever wrote that to say *sitting* in the garage – in the meaning (mentioned several times above) of its having been LEFT there. Do you understand this now?


----------



## RM1(SS)

zaffy said:


> And if the car was being used, it was just in the garage at the moment of speaking, you would expect 'stand' or 'park', right?


I wouldn't expect either.  "It's in the garage."


----------



## Ivan_I

zaffy said:


> And what do a pair of shoes do under a bed or in an wardrobe? Lie? Sit?





Packard said:


> Like a faithful dog, they “wait”.


Are you serious? Or is it a metaphor?


----------



## Ivan_I

deadinsect said:


> "Where's the TPS report?"
> "It's been sat on my desk for days (waiting for you to pick it up.)"


Why passive? Did someone repeatedly sit it there? Why not "It's been sitting on my desk..."


----------



## Loob

Ivan_I said:


> Why passive? Did someone repeatedly sit it there? Why not "It's been sitting on my desk..."


That's a red herring in this thread, Ivan. Here's one of the various threads covering the topic (it will lead you to several more): I am sitting down vs I am sat down


----------



## zaffy

"This has been sitting here for 45 minutes" 

This guy referred to a piece of hail that he picked up from the ground. We would say the hail was lying on the ground in Polish. Would 'lie' sound natural here?


----------



## heypresto

zaffy said:


> Would 'lie' sound natural here?


Yes.


----------



## lingobingo

It’s very common to say – informally – that something has been *sitting* (or occasionally *sat*) in a certain place for a long time. It implies “being there but not doing anything”, “sitting minding its own business”; in other words, remaining unnoticed. You lose that colloquial nuance if you say *lying* instead.


----------

