# FR: without having lived happily ever after



## La vente

Salut!!

I'd like to know how to translate the above into the sentence below:

She will fade away, without having lived happily ever after.

My try: Elle évanouira,* sans ayant **vécu* heureuse pour toujours.

Thank you in advance!!

La Vente

She will fade away *without having lived* happily ever after
Elle   évanouira...
*Sans aya**nt vécu
Sans avoir vécu
**...** heureuse pour toujours**
Mille Mercis!!*


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## melu85

Hi La vente , 

Maybe you could try to look up "without" in the dictionary and see if any thread answers your question.


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## Benoît abroad

Good evening,

My guess: "Elle s'éteignit sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse par la suite."


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## La vente

Merci Melu85 - C'est "sans avoir vécu" je crois. xP

Benoit abroad, I meant for it to be in the future but I see you agree with me in saying "avoir vécu" xD

Thanks once again!!


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## Benoît abroad

La vente said:


> Merci Melu85 - C'est "sans avoir vécu" je crois. xP
> 
> Benoit abroad, I meant for it to be in the future but I see you agree with me in saying "avoir vécu" xD
> 
> Thanks once again!!


 
Oups, sorry, it's a stupid mistake.

"Elle va s'éteindre sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse par la suite".

After a future "par la suite" sounds a bit weird....Any better ideas?


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## jann

"Happily ever after" is a standard ending for a fairy tale.  Check the site dictionary and the thread list at the bottom of the entry for the standard French equivalent.  click


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## itka

Maybe, it's possible to keep the happy ending of the french fairy tales saying: _"Elle s'éteindra sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse ni avoir eu beaucoup d'enfants" _?


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## La vente

Thank you itka, I was just wondering that!! xD

But I think it would probably be better if I use the more traditional passé simple. 

   Sans jamais avoir vécut heureuse ni avoir eut d'enfants

Does it still work?

Thank you!!

Also, I removed the "beaucoup" because I wasn't sure about it's use in the negative, since she has no kids! But maybe I could keep it there if it adds to the irony of using the traditional fairy tale ending in the negative. 

Qu'en pensez vous?


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## tilt

No, it doesn't work. The _past participle _is required here.
That said, the sentence might sounds more formal by swapping _jamais _and _avoir_, and by avoiding the repetition of _avoir_:
_Elle s'éteindra sans avoir __jamais __vécu heureuse ni eu beaucoup d'enfants.

_If you drop _beaucoup_, no one will understand the reference to fairy tales. I think it's worthy keeping it.


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## La vente

I see what you mean by it changing the formality. Thanks.

Is there any way to incorporate the passé simple as I really would like to gard it, or will it sound too wierd?

Thank you!!

_Elle s'éteindra sans __jamais __vécut heureuse ni eut beaucoup d'enfants

How about that? Does it make sense, and if so which would you use?
_


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## itka

Since you use a future, it seems difficult mixing it with a passé simple.


> Sans jamais avoir vécut heureuse ni avoir eut d'enfants


Your sentence is not correct. This curious tense (infinitif + passé simple) doesn't exist .
You could choose only the passé simple :
_"Elle ne vécut pas heureuse et n'eut jamais beaucoup d'enfants"_ but that way you cannot keep "elle s'éteindra" in the future...
You could put this verb in the passé simple too :
_"Elle s'éteignit. Elle ne_ _vécut pas heureuse et n'eut jamais beaucoup d'enfants"_.
But really, I can't see a better way than the one I wrote..._"Elle s'éteindra sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse ni avoir eu beaucoup d'enfants"_.
Hope it helps !


Just check if "s'éteindre" (= mourir, littéraire) is the right word according to the rest of the story. I think it's fine, but I don't know exactly what you mean...


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## La vente

Yes, I do have a tendency to create my own structures xD

"She will fade away without having lived happily ever after, nor having had lots of children"

I guess it sounds okay in English, but I'm not sure what tense to use in French. 

Your suggestion of _"Elle s'éteignit. Elle ne_ _vécut pas heureuse et n'eut jamais beaucoup d'enfants"_ reads she faded away and didn't live happily ever after. If she dies, she obviously didn't live happily ever after 

Otherwise I guess I'll have to use infin + past participle structure. I've been pouring over books and I can't find any construction with the passé simple!!

"She will die without having had" is the construction in English but if it were to be in the passé simple so as to be ironic (Fairy tales use the passé simple) xD

Thanks


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## tilt

La vente said:


> (Fairy tales use the passé simple) xD


When applicable, yes.
But only when applicable!


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## La vente

tilt said:


> When applicable, yes.
> But only when applicable!



I think I concede defeat


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## itka

My last idea :
_"Elle s'éteignit sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse ni avoir eu beaucoup d'enfants"._
So, you keep the passé simple but imho, it's not such a must to keep it !



> _"Elle s'éteignit. Elle ne_ _vécut pas heureuse et n'eut jamais beaucoup d'enfants"_ reads she faded away and didn't live happily ever after. If she dies, she obviously didn't live happily ever after


That's different in french. It doesn't mean that she could live happily _ever after_. This sentence would be perfectly possible in french.


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## La vente

Umm... but you haven't kept the passé simple! 
Okay, I won't use the passé simple. 

Milles Mercis Itka!!


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## itka

> _"Elle s'éteignit sans jamais avoir vécu heureuse ni avoir eu beaucoup d'enfants"._





> Umm... but you haven't kept the passé simple!


 Really ? When I say_ "elle s'éteignit"_ what tense do you think it is ?


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