# What do I do?  <Punt!>



## VicNicSor

Brantley comes to his new workplace but the employer suddenly tells him he's fired because of a takeover the company has been subjected to. Brantley:
-- Mr. Forbush, I was counting on this job. I mean, what do I do now?
-- *Punt*!
The Secret of My Success, movie

What does it mean here?
Thank you.


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## Glenfarclas

I think you're up to the task of figuring which of the definitions from our dictionary is applicable.


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## Loob

Maybe Vic can, but I'm having some trouble, Glen. Is it the same _punt _as in this thread: Bush could punt. Obama can’t punt?


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## VicNicSor

So, just to pick out one of the definitions, ok, so easy. Thank you.

X-posted with Loob


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## Glenfarclas

Loob said:


> Maybe Vic can, but I'm having some trouble, Glen. Is it the same _punt _as in this thread: Bush could punt. Obama can’t punt?



It's the only meaning that doesn't have to do with balls or boats.  I should point out that ABBA Stanza's response in the other thread is quite incorrect, certainly as far as AmE usage goes.


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## Oddmania

Hi,


Glenfarclas said:


> It's the only meaning that doesn't have to do with balls or boats.


The verb _to punt_ is giving me a hard time too, because it seems to have far more than only one meaning. These are sentences that I collected throughout the Internet:

- *give something up, forget about something:* _Let's punt on this and try something else; Let's punt the movie tonight._
- *postpone something:* _We'll have to punt fixing the baby's crib until tomorrow; We'll have to punt this feature to the next version of the software._
- *play for time: *_If they ask you for exact sales figures, you'll have to punt; Bush could punt, but Obama can’t punt._
- *saddle somebody with something: *_Punt it to the FBI; He punted the question to me._​


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## JamesM

I don't think of any of those definitions.  In the context given it means (to me): "Improvise!"


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## VicNicSor

JamesM said:


> In the context given it means (to me): "Improvise!"


But literally, he means "bet or speculate on something" (Oxfrod dictionary), right?


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## Glenfarclas

VicNicSor said:


> But literally, he means "bet or speculate on something" (Oxfrod dictionary), right?



Not whatsoever, no.


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## Oddmania

JamesM said:


> I don't think of any of those definitions. In the context given it means (to me): "Improvise!"


I'll have to add this one too to my index! It seems like a very versatile verb.


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## Oddmania

VicNicSor said:


> But literally, he means "bet or speculate on something" (Oxfrod dictionary), right?


You might be thinking of _to have a punt_, which indeed means _to bet_.

_— She'll never say yes.
— Have a punt! You never know._​


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## Glenfarclas

JamesM said:


> I don't think of any of those definitions.  In the context given it means (to me): "Improvise!"



That's only of the only things that it _doesn't_ mean, unfortunately.

It's a metaphor that comes from the action of kicking the ball down the field, thereby gaining yourself some time and breathing room.  (You can read all about it here.)  You could do this for any of the reasons listed by Oddmania in post #6, but it all amounts to about the same thing.  What you are _not_ doing is taking on and solving your real problem, so "improvise" doesn't come into play.  Just the opposite; if you could successfully improvise, you wouldn't need to punt on whatever the issue is.  And there is no connection to betting at all.


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## Myridon

The dictionary definitions tell you what a punt is (kicking a ball in a particular way), but not WHY you punt.
In American football, you have four chances to move the ball 10 yards.  If you haven't reached that line on the fourth play, you can try one more time or you can punt (kick the ball). If you try one more time, the other team may get control of the ball where you are or even worse, but if you punt, the ball goes forward and the other team is at a disadvantage when they get control. Punting is a "last chance option".  When there's nothing left to do and no other feasible options, you punt.


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## JamesM

> Punting is a "last chance option". When there's nothing left to do and no other feasible options, you punt.



To me, that means that you improvise out of desperation.  Maybe I've misinterpreted for several decades (it wouldn't be the first time).  I'll have to check around and see if I'm imagining this meaning or laying it on top of a simpler meaning.


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## VicNicSor

Now I see, thank you everyone!


Glenfarclas said:


> I think you're up to the task of figuring which of the definitions from our dictionary is applicable.


You were definitely overestimating my capabilities


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## JamesM

Glenfarclas said:


> That's only of the only things that it _doesn't_ mean, unfortunately.
> 
> It's a metaphor that comes from the action of kicking the ball down the field, thereby gaining yourself some time and breathing room.  (You can read all about it here.)  You could do this for any of the reasons listed by Oddmania in post #6, but it all amounts to about the same thing.  What you are _not_ doing is taking on and solving your real problem, so "improvise" doesn't come into play.  Just the opposite; if you could successfully improvise, you wouldn't need to punt on whatever the issue is.  And there is no connection to betting at all.



So, how do you interpret it in the original context?

-- Mr. Forbush, I was counting on this job. I mean, what do I do now?
-- *Punt*!

Mr. Forbush can't mean "gaining yourself some time and breathing room", can he?  The guy has no job.  How is he supposed to buy some time or delay something?  I think it fits my interpretation better than yours, Glenfarclas, which is rare.

I found this explanation on one site which expresses my sense of it better:



> The term is used in a non football context to mean that something was tried, it failed, and now they have to go back to square one and try something else.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

It means, for me, to give up trying to advance. Punting (in American football) is, as stated, what you do when you don't think you can gain enough yards for a new series of downs: you turn the ball over (give possession to the opponent) and hope to move him further away from the goal you're defending.
So, Vic, the boss is unsympathetically saying, "That's your problem."


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## Glenfarclas

Myridon said:


> Punting is a "last chance option".  When there's nothing left to do and no other feasible options, you punt.



In modern football that's true, but it did not use(d) to be so.  As late as 1950 (in a very special game, though) teams would punt on first down.  So the meaning is less tied to desperation and more to a desire to postpone dealing with a problem or hand it off to someone else.


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## siares

Glenfarclas said:


> And there is no connection to betting at all.



There is in our dictionary:

Random House Unabridged
*punt 2 *
v.i. 

Games[Cards.]to lay a stake against the bank, as at faro.
Games, Slang Terms[Slang.]to gamble, esp. to bet on horse races or other sporting events.

Etymology:

 Spanish _punto_ point
 French _ponter,_ derivative of _ponte_ punter, point in faro
 1705–15
Collins
*punt* /pʌnt/ chiefly britvb

(intransitive) to gamble; bet
Etymology: 18th Century: from French _ponter_ to punt, from _ponte_ bet laid against the banker, from Spanish _punto_ point, from Latin _punctum_
Punt used in the kicking sense has a different etymology:
Random House
Etymology:bef. 1000;
1835–45 for def. 1;
Old English: flat-bottomed boat (not attested in Middle English) Latin _pontō_punt, pontoon1;
sense "to kick a dropped ball'' perh. via sense "to propel (a boat) by shoving''

or in Collins:
Etymology: 19th Century: perhaps a variant of English dialect _bunt_ to push, perhaps a nasalized variant of butt³


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## Glenfarclas

siares said:


> There is in our dictionary:



That's a different word completely, as indicated by the "2" after it.


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## siares

Glenfarclas said:


> That's a different word


I don't get it - why cannot this be applied to OP, but the punt1 can/must be?


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## Glenfarclas

siares said:


> I don't get it - why cannot this be applied to OP, but the punt1 can/must be?



No American uses "punt" in the sense you suggest; it's not an ambiguous word.  I'm not even sure that the British do, outside of some particular usages.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

The punter does not drop (or no longer drops) the ball before kicking it. Neither polling a flat-bottomed boat nor betting would work for what the boss says.  It's an American movie, right, Vic?

For me, siares, neither the boating nor the gambling meaning makes sense here.


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## JamesM

Here's an example of it being used in the way I hear it:

When All Else Fails - Fresh From the Freezer


> Some how, some way, in our rush to pack our lunches, fill the travel cups with piping hot French Pressed coffee (this week’s special a medium roast Brazilian Blend) and get out the door, the cord to the crock pot was pulled ever so slightly... So instead of coming home to a wonderful, spicy chicken sandwich, we came home to chicken that was still partially frozen (guess because the crock pot held in the cold)...
> 
> When all else fails – punt!
> 
> ...Take whatever it is out, pop it in the oven, the microwave or whatever works.



In other words, forget the plan you had and come up with a new plan on the spur of the moment.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In other words, punting is what you do when you can't think of or don't think you have any other options. A fallback solution (I think the expression used to be "Drop back and punt.").


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## siares

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> For me, siares, neither the boating nor the gambling meaning makes sense here.


I see.. I liked the image of a very cynical boss: What should I do (for money) now? - Gamble!



Glenfarclas said:


> No American uses "punt" in the sense you suggest


Thank you Glenfarclas.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Actually, I said I _don't _think it means "gamble".
There are also idioms: "To punt something around.", the 'something' being along the lines of a hot potato, and "to punt/kick an idea around", to brainstorm.


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## Glenfarclas

JamesM said:


> Here's an example of it being used in the way I hear it:
> 
> When All Else Fails - Fresh From the Freezer
> 
> 
> In other words, forget the plan you had and come up with a new plan on the spur of the moment.



If you read what you linked to, you'll see that "Punt!" doesn't mean "Cook in an innovative new way!", it means "Make your apologies and don't even cook at all!"  In other words, it's the same meaning I've been citing.


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## JamesM

Glenfarclas, I'm surprised you said that.  Of course I read it before linking it. 

I didn't read it that way.  The woman is still cooking but her planned dish failed so she's grabbing something from the freezer and improvising.  She didn't just say "Sorry, folks... no dinner tonight."


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## Glenfarclas

If, instead of a special meal that you've had cooking all day, you're forced to pull out, quote, "1 Package of frozen something you forgot was even [way in the back of the freezer]" and heat it up, that's the equivalent of ordering a pizza or Chinese (a sitcom staple when Dad botches dinner), which is to say, not cooking at all.  "Punt" simply doesn't mean "improvise," and it's going to be impossible to jimmy it into that hole.


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## JamesM

Glenfarclas said:


> If, instead of a special meal that you've had cooking all day, you're forced to pull out, quote, "1 Package of frozen something you forgot was even [way in the back of the freezer]" and heat it up, that's the equivalent of ordering a pizza or Chinese (a sitcom staple when Dad botches dinner), which is to say, not cooking at all.



I am absolutely sure my wife would disagree with you on that point.


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## Loob

From a Brit who's still watching this thread with much interest....

-----

Glen, what message would you say the boss is conveying with the word "Punt!"?

Is it "Despair!" or "Go back to square one!" or "Never say die!" or ... ?


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## Wordsmyth

Ditto from another Brit.


Glenfarclas said:


> No American uses "punt" in the sense you suggest; it's not an ambiguous word. I'm not even sure that the British do, outside of some particular usages.


If I could work out what sense you were suggesting that siares was suggesting, Glen, I might be able to say whether the British do! 

But in Vic's original context, I'm pretty sure we don't. In my experience, it has three possible meanings, to do with kicking a dropped ball in rugby, propelling a boat with a pole, and (less commonly) betting. The only metaphorical sense I know is that of 'pushing' something figuratively, as in "You should punt that report upstairs. Senior management will want to see it."

So I'm just as curious as Loob is to know what the boss meant.

Ws


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Hi, Ws, Isn't that a collocation [Funny, I just used that term in another thread] - "to punt/kick something upstairs"? As opposed to "to kick [but not 'punt'] someone upstairs - to give them a meaningless promotion because they're incapable of doing the job they're in but for whatever reason can't be fired)?


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## Loob

Ain'tt, one thing that's confusing for us Brits (and I imagine other watchers of this thread) is that contributors seem to have different ideas about what the boss in Vic's context meant by "Punt!".  We can understand the literal American football meaning (now it's been explained to us) but what the boss in post 1 *meant *by saying "Punt!" to the failed job applicant is still mysterious.


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## Oddmania

I think it might be a way to say "Get it together!" _Punt, and maybe you'll score! Go for broke!_


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## srk

Oddmania said:


> I think it might be a way to say "Get it together!" _Punt, and maybe you'll score! Go for broke!_


Except that "to punt" in Amercian football is not to "go for broke."  It is to relinquish control of the ball in the least painful way and hope for a better opportunity later.  When a team punts, they have no chance of scoring for the time being.

The boss could be saying, "Stop trying for now, because you may make things worse for yourself.  Maybe things will work out to your advantage in time."  That's a way to understand "punting."

I've looked at the script.  The boss seems to be saying "Stop trying.  Do something else."  That's another way to see "punting."


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## Wordsmyth

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> Hi, Ws, Isn't that a collocation [Funny, I just used that term in another thread] - "to punt/kick something upstairs"?


Yes. But I've also heard it used in, for example, "Punt that over to the sales department. They should handle it." Whatever, it's a metaphor based on the "kick" meaning.

It seems from various posts above that the figurative AmE usage is along the lines of Glen's "gaining yourself some time and breathing room", Myridon's "last chance option", and ain'tt's "give up trying to advance" and "fallback solution", all of which derive from American football. Not surprisingly that metaphor isn't used in BrE, because in rugby a punt is used in many situations, as much in attack as in defence, and you aren't necessarily giving the ball to the other team.

But again I join Loob in being puzzled by its use in post #1. Since the boss just says "Punt!", with no other reference, that seems to rule out an 'option' or a 'solution'. Even 'give yourself some breathing room' doesn't seem to fit the situation of being fired. So that would appear to leave 'give up trying' (which, I've just seen, is srk's suggestion).

Ws


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## RedwoodGrove

I've always heard it more or less as go for plan B or C. Do whatever you can. You haven't got any real options here in the current situation so get rid of it metaphorically and move on. I don't quite get the "delay" aspect of the definition provided. You don't have a choice but to act, as in right now, and this is your best choice in a bad situation.


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## Glenfarclas

Loob said:


> Glen, what message would you say the boss is conveying with the word "Punt!"?
> 
> Is it "Despair!" or "Go back to square one!" or "Never say die!" or ... ?



I just watched the scene (or re-watched it, after 20 years) and I think he means "Go back to Kansas."  I.e., Brantley had made a go of it by coming to New York and trying to make it work, but it didn't work out for him, and now Brantley needs to recognize that the attempt didn't work and give it up.


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## siares

Since this thread is dependant on a scene which many will not have watched, could the contributors give an example of a better understandable real-life situation where they would use this exclamation?


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## Andygc

One of the problems for BE-speakers is that "punt" = "kick" doesn't have the connotations it has in American Football, as Wordsmyth mentioned. In Rugby Football it just means one of three ways of kicking a ball:
Place kick = ball placed carefully on the ground, kicker runs up and kicks it.
Drop kick = ball dropped on its end and as soon as it touches the ground, kicker kicks it.
Punt (kick) = ball dropped and kicked before it hits the ground.

The figurative use in BE (OED) "trans. To avoid, defer, or give up on. Also: *to pass responsibility for (something) to*."


Wordsmyth said:


> "Punt that over to the sales department. They should handle it."


comes from the tactic of kicking the ball forward from a defensive position to relieve pressure. Similar to the other rugby tactic of "kicking that into touch".

Incidentally, the OED says that to Americans, the idiom means





> intr. To give up, back out; to defer or avoid taking action or responsibility, to ‘pass the buck’.


I leave it to AE speakers to agree or disagree with the OED. For the etymology of punt = kick it says "of unknown origin".


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## Wordsmyth

Interesting, Andy. It seems that one of the biggest differences between BrE and AmE (with regard to the figurative sense of the verb _punt_) is that it's used intransitively in AmE. (When I saw Vic's post #1, my first thought was 'Punt what?')

Ws


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Loob said:


> [...]what the boss in post 1 *meant *by saying "Punt!" to the failed job applicant is still mysterious.



Yes, Vic, is Forbush depicted as a sympathetic or a cold-blooded character? (This reminds me a bit of the scene in _Death of a Salesman _in which Willie Loman is pleading with his boss not to fire him.)


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## VicNicSor

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> a cold-blooded character


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In that case, go _aaaaall_  the way back to #17  for my try...


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## VicNicSor

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> It's an American movie, right, Vic?


Yes, it is


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

And welcome back, Vic! [  &  ]...


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## srk

siares said:


> Since this thread is dependant on a scene which many will not have watched, could the contributors give an example of a better understandable real-life situation where they would use this exclamation?


How do you expect to do on your midterm?
I'm going to have to punt.
What does that mean?
I won't even take the midterm.  I'd do so badly that the instructor would never forget it.  I'll be out "sick."  I know he won't allow me to make up the test, and I'll get ready for the final.  If I do well enough there, he might forget the midterm and give me a decent grade.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

srk said:


> How do you expect to do on your midterm?
> I'm going to have to punt.
> What does that mean?
> I won't even take the midterm.  I'd do so badly that the instructor would never forget it.  I'll be out "sick."  I know he won't allow me to make up the test, and I'll get ready for the final.  If I do well enough there, he might forget the midterm and give me a decent grade.



If your four sentences are spoken by A, B, A, and B, respectively, wouldn't this indicate that B has no idea of what A means in the first sentence?


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## srk

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> wouldn't this indicate that B has no idea of what A means in the first sentence?


Yes.  I think that what "punt" means in a real-life situation often needs explanation.  I haven't been able to think of a use that doesn't.


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## siares

srk said:


> How do you expect to do on your midterm?
> I'm going to have to punt.
> What does that mean?
> I won't even take the midterm. I'd do so badly that the instructor would never forget it. I'll be out "sick." I know he won't allow me to make up the test, and I'll get ready for the final. If I do well enough there, he might forget the midterm and give me a decent grade.


Feels clear, thank you.



Wordsmyth said:


> If I could work out what sense you were suggesting that siares was suggesting, Glen, I might be able to say whether the British do!


I was suggesting Go gamble! based on the dictionarie's to gamble, esp. to bet on horse races
I guess the British don't say it, otherwise somebody would have said it here. Can anybody re-write srk's dialogue with some British expression?

I found this real-conversation example


cuchuflete said:


> The possible origins of the 'out of touch/unavailable' out-of pocket usage are unclear. One source traces it back to 1974.
> Another suggests that the derivation may come from American football, in which the quarterback, when out of the pocket, is running for his life, and unavailable for friendly contacts. This is as plausible as anything else I can find, and may even be true.
> 
> *Please don't ask for proof. I'll just have to punt*.


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## bennymix

For what it's worth, I agree with James M (post #14) as to likely meaning:

improvise out of desperation  ({ADD by benny}by doing something that may be a 'long shot' [unlikely to succeed]).

In the urban dictionary is something similar (among many).

     
5  punt 
To 'have a punt' means to bet* prospectively on something that probably won't win. [...]



"That stuck up bitch over there only sleeps with guys who have at least 10 grand in their pocket and a diamond bed to sleep on"

"Fuck mate, have a punt, if it don't work out, nothing lost." 

===
It's clear from the example that it's not just 'bet', but also act.  *By the way, in AE, we prefer the verb:*  "Fuck Joe, just punt;  if it doesn't work out, nothing lost."  {example adapted by benny}

Oddmania in  post #11 gives a similar example, and clearly more than 'bet' is involved.


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## bennymix

Here's a UK example:

Kids Co's £3m handout was just 'a punt' by ministers

*Kids Company £3m handout days before it collapsed was just 'a punt' by ministers, says former Cabinet Office secretary  {headline}*


Nov 2, 2015 - Ministers gave £3million to Kids Company just days before its collapse because they thought it was worth taking 'a punt' on its future


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## RM1(SS)

Loob said:


> Ain'tt, one thing that's confusing for us Brits (and I imagine other watchers of this thread) is that contributors seem to have different ideas about what the boss in Vic's context meant by "Punt!".  We can understand the literal American football meaning (now it's been explained to us) but what the boss in post 1 *meant *by saying "Punt!" to the failed job applicant is still mysterious.


It brings to mind Clint Eastwood's "Improvise, adapt, overcome" in _Heartbreak Ridge_.


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## bennymix

Loob:  "what the boss in post 1 meant by saying "Punt!" to the failed job applicant is still mysterious."

He meant, "Have a punt!" (in BE).   There.  Clear?


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## Glenfarclas

bennymix said:


> He meant, "Have a punt!" (in BE). There. Clear?



Totally, totally wrong. 



bennymix said:


> In the urban dictionary is something similar (among many).



That's a completely different sense of "punt" which doesn't exist in American English.  The "kick" sense of _punt_ has no connection to the British "gambling" sense.  I thought we clarified this like 30 posts ago.


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## Andygc

Glenfarclas said:


> That's a completely different sense of "punt" which doesn't exist in American English. The "kick" sense of _punt_ has no connection to the British "gambling" sense. I thought we clarified this like 30 posts ago.


 Australian origin, mid-20th century, always a noun. Used in "take a punt" or "have a punt" meaning "place a bet". That makes no sense in the original dialogue.


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## bennymix

Place a bet does not apply, but this does, and it's in the vicinity of 'improvise':

*take  (or have) a punt at*
_Australian_ /_NZ_ _ informal_ Attempt to do (something).


Everyone's having a punt at shattering the race leader on the last real climb of the Tour.



Andygc said:


> Australian origin, mid-20th century, always a noun. Used in "take a punt" or "have a punt" meaning "place a bet". That makes no sense in the original dialogue.


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## siares

Andygc said:


> Australian origin, mid-20th century, always a noun.


I trust this statement, and, does anybody know why we have it as a verb in the dictionary?
There are almost no google hits
_...he punted his reputation as a Dr against that of the young officer. _(some Australia new Zealand forum)
_He punted the lot on Little Nell in the third race. _(Collins)
_In Edgar Wallace's case, the compulsion was manifest when he punted his literary earnings on horses, which, of course, had to lose. _(The Listener, BBC)
_Every Saturday, he punted his wages in Alf Hogan's betting shop (Daily mail 17/3/2012 Legendary punter McManus admits: I didn't back my Gold Cup winner)_


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## Andygc

benny, there's no way "punt" as an imperative can mean "take a punt at". This usage may have started Down Under, but it is used in BE.  It's actually the same meaning as having a bet, covered by the same OED entry.





> 1965 J. O'Grady _Aussie English_ 71  To ‘take a punt at’ anything is the equivalent of to ‘have a go’.


It does not mean "improvise" and cannot fit the context of the OP.


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## bennymix

These are examples of 'punt' as bet.  It does not fit the OP.  

The sense that's relevant to the OP, in my opinion is "improvise" or "have a go".  This is somewhat similar
to the AE noun usage indicating an attempt, as in my post #59.



siares said:


> I trust this statement, and, does anybody know why we have it as a verb in the dictionary?
> There are almost no google hits
> _...he punted his reputation as a Dr against that of the young officer. _(some Australia new Zealand forum)
> _He punted the lot on Little Nell in the third race. _(Collins)
> _In Edgar Wallace's case, the compulsion was manifest when he punted his literary earnings on horses, which, of course, had to lose. _(The Listener, BBC)
> _Every Saturday, he punted his wages in Alf Hogan's betting shop (Daily mail 17/3/2012 Legendary punter McManus admits: I didn't back my Gold Cup winner)_


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## Andygc

siares said:


> I trust this statement, and, does anybody know why we have it as a verb in the dictionary?
> There are almost no google hits
> _...he punted his reputation as a Dr against that of the young officer. _(some Australia new Zealand forum)
> _He punted the lot on Little Nell in the third race. _(Collins)
> _In Edgar Wallace's case, the compulsion was manifest when he punted his literary earnings on horses, which, of course, had to lose. _(The Listener, BBC)


Oh, there's also the much older verb, "to punt", which means "to place a bet", originally against the bank in card games that have a banker. That dates back at least to the early 18th century.

The word "punt" has a variety of meanings as both noun and verb, some connected. Using it as a noun in "take/have a punt" is relatively recent. The original use of the noun punt relating to punt = to bet was for the person who made the bet, also leading to "punter".


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## siares

Thanks, Andygc. I was misled thinking it is a common verb.


bennymix said:


> It does not fit the OP.


In my opinion nothing fits the OP. If the OP was a song lyric, it would have been dismissed long ago.


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## bennymix

The betting related meanings of 'punt' as noun or verb do not, to my knowledge, occur in AE to any significant extent.


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## Wordsmyth

siares said:


> I was suggesting Go gamble! based on the dictionarie's to gamble, esp. to bet on horse races
> I guess the British don't say it, otherwise somebody would have said it here.


The *noun* "punt" is sometimes heard in BrE for a bet or gamble, though in my experience it's encountered more often in the form of "punter" (gambler), as mentioned by Andy. There may be very occasional examples of its use as a verb meaning to gamble, but even then it's either used transitively or in the form "to punt on something". In the OP, it's intransitive and used in isolation, so it doesn't surprise me that no BrE speaker has mentioned "go and gamble" as a possibility.



siares said:


> Can anybody re-write srk's dialogue with some British expression?


 No, because once again that's an intransitive use of the verb _punt_, which, as far as I'm aware, doesn't occur in BrE. (The exception is with the literal use of _punt_ in rugby, which may be an intransitive verb but can only refer to punting the ball.)



bennymix said:


> Place a bet does not apply, but this does, and it's in the vicinity of 'improvise':
> 
> *take (or have) a punt at*
> _Australian_ /_NZ_ _ informal_ Attempt to do (something).


Except that the movie in question is American, not Antipodean. Actually, benny, I don't think _attempting_ is necessarily that close to _improvising_. But in any case the expression there is "take a punt at" (with the noun _punt_); whereas in the OP it's the verb _punt_ (intransitive), which I'm pretty sure isn't used to mean either "attempt" or "improvise" in AusE/NZE.

Ws


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## Glenfarclas

siares said:


> In my opinion nothing fits the OP.



It wouldn't be a very common word or concept in Slovakia, no.  As someone who uses the word myself, I don't have much difficulty in determining that it means what I said in post #40.


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## siares

Glenfarclas said:


> It wouldn't be a very common word or concept in Slovakia, no.


But I don't have difficulty understanding what cuchuflete meant!  (in 52)



Wordsmyth said:


> verb meaning to gamble, but even then it's either used transitively or in the form "to punt on something"


Dictionary says it is intransitive - this desinformation or typo made me think I understand the OP for a second there!


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## Wordsmyth

siares said:


> Dictionary says it is intransitive


It may not be misinformation, nor a typo. Which dictionary is that, siares? 

There is, for instance, the intransitive use that Andy mentioned:  to lay a stake against the bank in card games that have a banker. But that's a very specific use in a very specific context. As far as I know it isn't used figuratively to mean "gamble" in general.

All of your examples in #60 are transitive uses: _"he punted his reputation", "He punted the lot", "he punted his literary earnings" , "he punted his wages"._

Ws


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## siares

Wordsmyth said:


> Which dictionary


It is Collins.* verb* (intransitive) to gamble; bet. 
And WR's Random House Unabridged: punt2  v.i. Games[Cards.]to lay a stake against the bank, as at faro. Games, Slang Terms[Slang.]to gamble, esp. to bet on horse races or other sporting events.

I cannot find any intransitive besides this from a recent BE novel
_At Franklin & Pope, and within the UK publishing industry as a whole, Emily's deadeye for talent was well regarded – she could pick winners. 
All the more surprising then when she punted big and lost on an erotic potboiler with artistic pretensions – 'erogenous nonsense and .._ Paul Carroll, Written Off


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## bennymix

Here is intransitive 'punt', used to mean 'avoid' (perhaps with the added connotation of 'shirk')   This is somewhat in the vicinity of Glenfarclas' suggestion of [as I read him] 'go away from' or 'give up on'.**


5 GOP Presidential Hopefuls Who Seem Perfectly Happy to Let Confederate Flag Fly

The former Arkansas governor recently angered some of his base with controversial comments regarding the Duggar family, but he might have won a few back as a result of punting on the flag question. In fact, Huckabee doesn't think the flag is a big deal at all. On "Meet the Press" he said that presidential candidates shouldn't have to “weigh in on every _little_ issue in all 50 states.[...] Everyone's being baited with this question as if it has anything to do whatsoever with running for president."   After Fox News host Ed Henry suggested that he punted on the issue, Huckabee insisted that he had not.
====

Glen's words in post #12:

What you are _not_ doing is taking on and solving your real problem, so "improvise" doesn't come into play.


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## bennymix

Incidentally, siares, there are several words in English with opposite meanings:  "cleave" means for two to come together, and to cut {one thing} in two!

The contrast of 'give up [on]' 'walk away [from]' with 'improvise' 'make a desperate and longshot attempt [at]'  is not hard to contemplate.

The other contrast, here, is between 'play [at something when you're supposed to do something else]' and 'attempt something'.

As far as American football goes, the latter pole of those dimensions above seems
to be closest to the sports situation.   Lots of 'punts' are serious attempts, if sometimes longshots.

However, I would argue that the former pole (walk away)(play at) also has a connection.
If there's nothing to do, a punt is just a worthless play, not expected to accomplish much of anything except maybe take the pressure off.   It's not quite 'going away to play' and shirking, but you can see it's in the vicinity.  In these cases, to use Glen's words, it's not solving the real problem  (the team in a losing position, deep in its own endzone).


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## Wordsmyth

siares said:


> It is Collins.* verb* (intransitive) to gamble; bet.
> And WR's Random House Unabridged: punt2 v.i. Games[Cards.]to lay a stake against the bank, as at faro. Games, Slang Terms[Slang.]to gamble, esp. to bet on horse races or other sporting events.





bennymix said:


> Here is intransitive 'punt', used to mean 'avoid'



Just to be clear, my comments in the last few posts refer back to your "I guess the British don't say it" in post #52, siares — 'it' being "Punt!" (intransitive) for "Go gamble!". Random House is an American dictionary, and benny's latest example is an AmE source; and I think we've established that "punt" *is* used intransitively in figurative senses in AmE (even if that doesn't include gambling) ... and that's all that really matters here, because Vic's example is from an American movie.

Collins is essentially a British dictionary, and yes, they do have that entry, _"to gamble; bet"_. Unfortunately they give no usage examples (and as you said, you had difficulty in finding intransitive examples); and of course, as always, the inclusion of a particular meaning in a dictionary doesn't mean that it can be used in all contexts. We've already seen that it's used intransitively in certain card games, and that it can be used in the expression "to punt *on *something", which is an intransitive construction: but neither of those fits with the example in the OP.

So I wouldn't say the dictionary entry is misinformation: you just have to look elsewhere (such as here in the forum) to find out when it's appropriate to apply that information.

Ws


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## siares

Thanks, Wordsmyth and bennymix.
Yes I understand the difference between the two intransitive reciprocally transatlantic punts, thank you.


bennymix said:


> The contrast of 'give up [on]' 'walk away [from]' with 'improvise' 'make a desperate and longshot attempt [at]' is not hard to contemplate.


Thanks, I get it, and it fits with the srk's example and cuchuflete's, and one other active member's usage.


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