# hoeden (to hat)



## ThomasK

Do you have a verb based on a head cover in your language? We have _*hoeden *_as a verb meaning " to protect" mainly. Like _*behoeden voo*_r (protect against, prevention), _*varkenshoeder *_(the pig boy, like the cow-boy, which we do not translate), *op zijn hoede zijn* (on one's guard), etc. They are not very common nowadays though. 

*"To heed" *might be something similar. As a matter of fact, etymonline.com links it [if that is the perfect word here in English] with an IE root leading to _hat_...  Heeding has to do with protection, respect. And of course a link with *hood *(_kap _in Dutch) seems self-evident... 

So: how about your language?


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## Perseas

Greek:

*Kαπέλο* [ka'pelo] means *hat*.
We have the verb *καπελώνω* [kape'lono] which literally means "to put a hat on someone's head" and metaphorically "to impose my views/ideas on others", with the connotation of manipulation.


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## ThomasK

Perfect! Very interesting! 

Would you think that has to do with some kind of negative perception of a hat? I just mean that I could imagine some other metaphor with a hat, but not that one, not a really negative one. We might say: "*ik zet een ander petje op*" (I put on a different cap) when we play two (or more) roles: once you are just a man/woman, some other time you are an officer of some kind...


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## Perseas

ThomasK said:


> Would you think that has to do with some kind of negative perception of a hat?


I think so. I associate that meaning with the concepts of "to cast a shadow over someone" or "to limit someone's abilities to think and to act independently".


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## ThomasK

Could you find that Association back in other words or expressions?  Around here hats were meant to protect against rain  and the cold in general, I think, whereas you had the sun… I do know of "*onder één hoedje spelen*" (conspiracy, to play under one little hat), but what the origin is, although it might have to do with cover-ups, which is part of the  original meaning of our "hoed", I think.


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## Perseas

Although it's obvious that a hat can protect against the rain, the cold or the sun, I don't see that meaning in the Greek verb.
If you forcefully put someone under your umbrella or if you forcefully put your hat on someone else's head, then you try to dominate, manipulate, patronize them. This is how I understand the Greek verb.


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## ThomasK

I think you are right! I am so surprised simply to find that the basic assumptions underlying the concept/… head cover ("hat") are so different. About any assumption might be wrong, except for the idea of a head cover (which we should then not associate with protection automatically, I guess). Thanks a lot!


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## Circunflejo

In Spanish, there's _gorrear _and _gorronear_; both of them meaning to make something free because others pay for it. 
In Honduran Spanish, there's sombrerear with two different meanings: 1) to frighten someone with menaces. 2) to treat a superior as if s/he had the same ranking than you.


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## ThomasK

Do I have to see that as putting someone in the shade or shadow? I guess so, but please tell me...


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## Circunflejo

ThomasK said:


> Do I have to see that as putting someone in the shade or shadow? I guess so, but please tell me...


I can't really tell you because I'm not Honduran and therefore I'm not familiar with that use.


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## ThomasK

Just BTW: any expressions containing the word "hat" are also welcome!


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Do you have a verb based on a head cover in your language?


Russian "прошляпить" (proshlyápit') - lit. ~"to hat through", meaning "to lose/miss sth, typically due to the lack of attention or wit"; from "шляпа" (shlyápa) - "a hat"; coll., dated "a person lacking attention and/or practical wit and suffering from that".


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## Yendred

In French:
_*chapeauter *_(literally _to "hat" / to cover with a hat_) means _to head / to oversee / to manage_.

Also these expressions exist:
1) _*porter le chapeau*_ - literally _to wear the hat_ - means _to be accountable for something_.
2) _*faire porter le chapeau (à quelqu'un)*_ - literally _to make (somebody) wear the hat - _means _to blame somebody for something_.
Generally, the expressions imply that the responsibility is intentionally put on the wrong person.
The expression comes from the fact that different forms of hat were originally symbols of social background, and social categorization of people.
I think the corresponding idiomatic English expressions are "_to carry the can_" (1) or "_to leave somebody hold the bag/the baby_" (2).


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## tsoapm

There's 'cap' in English as a verb, rather than 'hat' itself: to put a cover on, to be a cover, to provide an appropriate climax/conclusion, to place a limit.


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## Circunflejo

ThomasK said:


> any expressions containing the word "hat" are also welcome!


Estar hasta el gorro=to be fed up. Quitarse el sombrero=to show admiration towards something made by someone else.


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## Olaszinhok

Circunflejo said:


> Quitarse el sombrero=to show admiration towards something made by someone else.


That expression is used in Italian as well: _togliersi il cappello._


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## Circunflejo

Olaszinhok said:


> That expression is used in Italian as well: _togliersi il cappello._


Surely, it's also used in other languages.


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## ThomasK

As in Dutch. Funny thing is: we can say it in French ("*Chapeau*!") or in Dutch (*"Hoedje af!"* [Hat off, lit.]...



tsoapm said:


> There's 'cap' in English as a verb, rather than 'hat' itself: to put a cover on, to be a cover, to provide an appropriate climax/conclusion, to place a limit.


 That reminds me of the Calimero story, whereas that is about an eggshell, not a regular hat...   Someone blames others whereas it might be his/her own fault...


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## ThomasK

Yendred said:


> In French:
> _*chapeauter *_(literally _to "hat" / to cover with a hat_) means _to head / to oversee / to manage_.
> 
> Also these expressions exist:
> 1) _*porter le chapeau*_ - literally _to wear the hat_ - means _to be accountable for something_.
> 2) _*faire porter le chapeau (à quelqu'un)*_ - literally _to make (somebody) wear the hat - _means _to blame somebody for something_.
> Generally, the expressions imply that the responsibility is intentionally put on the wrong person.
> The expression comes from the fact that different forms of hat were originally symbols of social background, and social categorization of people.
> I think the corresponding idiomatic English expressions are "_to carry the can_" (1) or "_to leave somebody hold the bag/the baby_" (2).


Great! I cannot see a parallel with (1) and (2) in Dutch. But I do see one link, I think: "*ik zet een ander petje op*" means that I choose to play a different social role. I mean: I can be seen as Thomas, but I can also be seen as a teacher, a student, a self-employed person, etc.


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## Yendred

ThomasK said:


> Funny thing is: we can say it in French ("*Chapeau*!") or in Dutch (*"Hoedje af!"* [Hat off, lit.]...



Yes "_*Chapeau* !_" is a common French expression. It means "_Congratulations!_" (especially when the accomplished task was considered a tough one).
It is an abbreviation of "_Je vous/te tire mon chapeau !_" (literally matching something like "_I take my hat off at you_").
We may also say "_Chapeau bas !_" (literally "_Hat downwards_").


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## Olaszinhok

Yendred said:


> Yes "_*Chapeau* !_" is a common French expression. It means "_Congratulations!_" (especially when the accomplished task was considered a tough one).


_Chapeau_ is used in Italian as well, I have to say that it was far more common in the past. An equivalent Italian expression is _tanto di cappello._


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## Yendred

Olaszinhok said:


> _Chapeau_ is used in Italian as well, I have to say that it was far more common in the past.



Although it may sound old-school, it is still a quite common expression in French (the offbeat aspect giving it a racy style).


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## Circunflejo

Olaszinhok said:


> _Chapeau_ is used in Italian as well


...and in Spanish.


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## Yendred

Circunflejo said:


> ...and in Spanish



Spelled "_Chapeau_" as is? I thought you would have "_españolized" _the spelling to make the spelling and pronounciation match, but the problem is the [ʃ] sound does not exist in Spanish  Does it?
Unless you pronounce it [tʃapo]


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## Dymn

Yendred said:


> Spelled "_Chapeau_" as is?


Well RAE includes "_chapó_" but since it's mostly something belonging to spoken language, I guess you could find both in informal texts, especially if the speaker is just a bit familiar with French which is not rare at all.



Yendred said:


> Unless you pronounce it [tʃapo]


There's for sure people pronuncing it that way, probably a majority in fact. I for one used to, but I think I'd rather pronounce it with /ʃ/ now. (Catalan does have /ʃ/ but my idiolect doesn't word-initially, also I guess the spelling exerts some influence).


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## Yendred

Dymn said:


> Catalan does have /ʃ/



Oh by the way, is it the sound you find in _Eixample_, the district of Barcelona?


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## Dymn

Yep


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## Circunflejo

Yendred said:


> Spelled "_Chapeau_" as is?


Yes, the RAE accepts both chapeau and chapó.


Yendred said:


> Unless you pronounce it [tʃapo]


That's a/the common pronounciation (with stress on the last syllable).


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## Yendred

I'd be curious to know how you pronounce the city of _Chicago_ (officially [ʃɪkɑɡoʊ]) in Spanish?


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## Dymn

Just like you would read it if it were Spanish.


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## Penyafort

In Catalan, most verbs derived from headwear are formed with the structure _en- + noun + -ar_ and have no meaning other than 'to put that headwear on someone/something' or, when adding the pronominal ending _-se_, 'to put it on oneself':

*encaperonar, encaperutxar, encapullar, encaputxar* <-- all of them could be more or less translated as 'to cover with a hood'.​
Two would have an added meaning:

*encapellar* (from _capell_ 'hat')​1. to cover with a hat​2. (Nautical lexicon) to reeve​3. (Hunting) to hood (a falcon)​​*encasquetar *(from _casquet_ 'cap')​1. to pull down tight (a hat or cap)​2. to put an idea into somebody's head, often by force or insistence​3. *-se *(Weapons) to get stuck​​As mentioned above, to take one's hat off (in Catalan, *treure's el barret*) is also used as an idiom for showing admiration, respect or approval. (Yet a *casa de barrets* or house of hats refers to a brothel, maybe because there used to be more than one hat hanging at the hall)


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## ThomasK

Even almost three years later I still wonder that there seems to be no reference at all to hatting as protecting. But I do not blame anyone! ;-)


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## Roxxxannne

"To hoodwink" in English means "to deceive or mislead."  English also has the verb "to hood."


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## ThomasK

Very interesting. I wonder whether words or concept do not get some pejorative or positive bias/ meaning from the start. For example cover in the sense of ""protection in Dutch, cover in a more pejorative sense in English (hypothesis based on the few derivations I can discover, like camouflage?).

We do have "onder één hoedje spelen", something like a conspiracy, "all playing under one hat". Might be derived from the magician's game, conjuring up a rabbit (from) under a hat...


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## Roxxxannne

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but English has "keep something under one's hat" to mean "keep something a secret" as in "Listen, I heard that the company is moving its headquarters to Des Moines, but it's not official yet, so keep it under your hat for now."

'Cover' and 'camouflage' are neutral to me, not negative or pejorative:
The spots on a fawn's coat act as protective camouflage.  
We took cover in the doorway when it started to rain.

Maybe I don't understand what you meant above.


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## ThomasK

Well, I must say that I associate camouflage (colours) with war - or I did until today. I just checked on the internet and etymologically it seems to have meant "to disguise". Could I not say that even disguise is some trick allowing one to avoiding danger? As a word it seems negative as well, I just thought: dis-guise... But I might be thinking "too wishfully"!


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