# Danish/Norwegian: sjofel



## gjuhetar

According to my dictionaries,
Danish *sjofel*: dirty (_trick_), beastly (_behavior_), shabby (_treatment_); shabby (_clothes_); dirty, smutty, bawdy (_story_).
Norwegian *sjofel*: mean (_fellow_), dirty (_trick_); = shabby (*tarvelig*).

It seems that Norwegian *sjofel *is narrower when it comes to the meaning of the word.
That is, in Norwegian, *sjofel *doesn't mean material dirtiness or lewdness.
However, I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that my Danish dictionary is thicker. 

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## NorwegianNYC

Hi,

I think *sjofel* (albeit no a very common word anymore) has two similar, but distinct meanings in Norwegian: (1) base, low, mean, vile, villainous; and (2) dirty, smutty
That being said, it is not an everyday word in Norwegian. Personally I associate this word with Danish


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## basslop

Yes, sjofel is a word that was common for the older generations ( say 70-80+) while younger people (say sub 20-30) may not even be quite sure what the word means.


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## Sepia

Affirmative. I can't remember having heard the word in Danish since the 70es. I had almost forgotten it existed.


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## bicontinental

Sepia said:


> Affirmative. I can't remember having heard the word in Danish since the 70es. I had almost forgotten it existed.





  I don’t agree at all that ‘sjofel’ isn’t used in modern Danish.

  But I think that its usage has become quite narrow. As indicated by the OP, the adjective originally had several meanings most of which have fallen out of use today. As such you are not likely to hear ‘_en sjofel påklædning’_ (shabby clothing) or ‘_en person ser sjofel ud’, (_a person looks shabby).

  ‘Sjofel’ is, however, still used to refer to something obscene and bawdy, dirty: sjofle vittigheder (dirty jokes) en sjofel tankegang (a dirty mind), at least in my experience.


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## Sepia

bicontinental said:


> ...
> 
> ‘Sjofel’ is, however, still used to refer to something obscene and bawdy, dirty: sjofle vittigheder (dirty jokes) en sjofel tankegang (a dirty mind), at least in my experience.



That is the only way I have ever heard it used. Just plain to describe what you mean with "shabby" - never.

I am not saying it is not used - you actually get hits when you run the search machine ofer online newspapers. But one really don't hear it as often as one used to.


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## Andreas_Jensen

I don't know whether "sjofel" used to be more common, but it is certainly used quite commonly today, in very much the way Bicontinental describes.

I would say it is used in almost exactly the same way "pervers" is used, although "sjofel" may come across as slightly stronger. They both refer to something dirty and sexually obscene/unacceptable. In my opinion they exclusively carry sexual connotations. I think "pervers" is used somewhat more often by younger people, below 25. 

Personally, I use it freely and I don't see myself as speaking archaically


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## bicontinental

Andreas_Jensen said:


> I would say it is used in almost exactly the same way "pervers" is used, although "sjofel" may come across as slightly stronger. They both refer to something dirty and sexually obscene/unacceptable. In my opinion they exclusively carry sexual connotations. I think "pervers" is used somewhat more often by younger people, below 25.



  That’s interesting, Andreas. I really don't want to create a semantic confusion but ‘pervers’ sounds stronger to my ear than ‘sjofel’, because it also implies a [sexual] deviation from normal, (which is likely to be considered ‘sjofel’ at the same time). 



  Han/hun har en sjofel tankegang (s/he has a dirty mind) versus

  Han/hun har en pervers tankegang (s/he has a perverted mind)



  To me the second sentence would be worse. 

Bic.


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## Andreas_Jensen

Bicontinental> I think sjofel sounds quite a lot worse than pervers. If someone calls you sjofel you're not that far from a sex offender, while your (girl)friend can easily call you pervers if you say something a bit "provocative". In Danish, as I suppose you know, the word "perverteret" exists, which I would translate as "perverted" - And if someone calls you THAT, you're probably not that far from being behind bars  "Pervers" to me sounds relatively benign and should not be translated as "perverted" but rather "dirty".

But, but, but... In a way the above only applies to people. If you're talking, for example, about a work of art and you call it "perverst", then it is a very strong word and I would easily translate it as "perverted" - And I wouldn't necessarily need it to be of a particularly sexual nature to call it that. Whereas calling a work of art "sjofelt" only implies sexual connotations, but in a rather vulgar way.

It may be that the meanings above mostly apply to my particular age group or even somewhat to me as an individual. But that is my thoughts on the subject


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## bicontinental

Thanks so much, Andreas. I appreciate the feed back and your thoughts on this!

Bic.


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## Sepia

I still think it is useless to compare "sjofel" and "perverteret/pervers" - they have nothing to do with each other and mean different things. Most people who tell dirty jokes - sjofle vittigheder - aren't telling anything that has got to do with perversion - and you can talk for hours about perversions - in their original clinical sense - without ever becoming "sjofel".


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