# Не сули́ журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.



## seitt

Greetings

I gather that your equivalent of “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” is “Не сули́ журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.”

Unfortunately, I am unable to understand the grammar in this Russian proverb. Please could you give me a literal translation so I can see how the language works? Any other hints/help would be greatly appreciated too.

All the best, and many thanks,

Simon


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## rusita preciosa

Don't promise a crane in the sky, give a lark(?) in the hand.
*Cулить* is an archaic word for *to promise *(may be not archaic, but old-fashioned for sure). Both *сул́и* and *дай* are imperative. 

EDIT: actually I do not know my birds. I just looked it up and *синица* in English is *Great tit*, which would make that expresson... erm... a bit ambiguous...


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## seitt

> *синица in English is Great tit, which would make that expresson... erm... a bit ambiguous...*


LOL! Thank you so much.

Re “Не сули́ журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.”, how could we rephrase it in modern Russian, please? Naturally, I'm thinking mainly of what we could replace сули́ with.


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## rusita preciosa

seitt said:


> how could we rephrase it in modern Russian, please?


Не обещáй журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.


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## seitt

Thank you very much, super!


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## Maroseika

seitt said:


> Re “Не сули́ журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.”, how could we rephrase it in modern Russian, please?



By the way, more common Russian variant is "Лучше синица в руках, чем журавль в небе".


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## Ёж!

rusita preciosa said:


> *Cулить* is an archaic word for *to promise *(may be not archaic, but old-fashioned for sure).


Surely not for sure! I'd say, it's not old-fashioned but instead elevated. On the other hand, being 'elevated' sometimes _does_ seem to be out of fashion, although I guess this is just that – an appearance and not a real observation.


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## rusita preciosa

Ёж! said:


> Surely not for sure! I'd say, it's not old-fashioned but instead elevated. On the other hand, being 'elevated' sometimes _does_ seem to be out of fashion, although I guess this is just that – an appearance and not a real observation.


Both Ushakov and Efremova mark that word as "colloquial / low register", the exact opposite of "elevated". In addition, Ushakov marks it "устар.", 
May be your thinking was 





> being out of fashion sometimes _does_ seem to be "elevated'


?


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## Ёж!

There is sometimes bizarre interconnection between being a 'low register' and feeling elevated.  Maybe because the 'simpler' the word looks, the more it gains.

My thinking was what I said.


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## Maroseika

Maybe just outdated words make our speech seem elevated sometimes.


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## Ёж!

Not only that, what you say is surely right too, and I must note that in the case of speech, it is always what it seems. By the way, I am not sure what you call 'outdated'. This does not appear very often in conversation, but it is not something by now non-existent. It is just a part of language.

By 'old-fashionad' and 'outdated' I meant something that now cannot be used without making strong references to extinct past, which is surely not the case for 'сулить'; you both and the dictionary makers may have meant something else, probably this is why the confusion.

As for the question:


			
				seitt said:
			
		

> Re “Не сули́ журавля́ в не́бе, а дай сини́цу в ру́ки.”, how could we rephrase it in modern Russian, please?


I'd answer either 'exactly the way it's already written', or something like 'Не нужно мне журавля в небе, нужна синица в руках'. "Обещай" does not sound good to me in this sentence. Not because it's 'too modern' or something, but because it makes think indeed of cooked cranes (  ), and in addition is a weird construction. Imagine how bizarre: "Не обещай мне коровы!"


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## seitt

Many thanks!


> In addition, Ushakov marks it "устар.",


How would you write устар. in full, please?


> Не обещай мне коровы!


"Don't promise me crows", perhaps? But you're saying this has to be Не сули́ мне коровы!, aren't you? But what exactly does this mean?


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## NagyKiss

Устар. - устаревший.


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## marco_2

rusita preciosa said:


> Don't promise a crane in the sky, give a lark(?) in the hand.
> *Cулить* is an archaic word for *to promise *(may be not archaic, but old-fashioned for sure). Both *сул́и* and *дай* are imperative.
> 
> EDIT: actually I do not know my birds. I just looked it up and *синица* in English is *Great tit*, which would make that expresson... erm... a bit ambiguous...



Well, if _a great tit _sounds ambiguous to you, you can use a full name for _синица - _a titmouse . And I think that you also have another proverb with the same meaning: *Лучше голубь в тарелке, чем глухарь на току. *
.


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## rusita preciosa

marco_2 said:


> Well, if _a great tit _sounds ambiguous to you, you can use a full name for _синица - _a titmouse . And I think that you also have another proverb with the same meaning: *Лучше голубь в тарелке, чем глухарь на току. *
> .


I think if someone translates that into English, any common small bird would do. 
I have never heard the one about the dove and the er... the Western Capercaillie (had to look it up!), good one - is it the Polish equivalent?


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## marco_2

Our proverb "contains" other birds: _Lepszy wróbel w garści niż kanarek na dachu - _буквaльно: _Лучше воробей в горсти чем канарейка на крыше - _Slavic people are imaginative and like being different


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## Ёж!

seitt said:


> "Don't promise me crows", perhaps? But you're saying this has to be Не сули́ мне коровы!, aren't you? But what exactly does this mean?


'Don't promise me a cow'. No, now I see both 'сули' and 'обещай' are very weird with the cow, especially when the cow is in genitive, but the sentences would be weird even if it was in accusative. I was trying to understand why 'обещай' sounds so weird for me in the setence of the crane, and made a mistake when trying to explain myself (I am sorry): with the cows it doesn't work at all.

In the case of cranes, the word 'сулить' makes think of fate: it's not the one who speaks will give me the crane, it's that he promises I'll encounter that crane sometime in the future; he's not expected to be involved in my encounter with the crane. With 'обещай', I have the feeling that he promises to catch the crane for me and give me it (possibly that's why cooked cranes popped out in my mind), or at least he is expected to be involved in my getting it in some way, maybe even only morally. Of course, both would be weird with a cow.


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## seitt

I hope no one's been *tit*tering at all this bird talk!

Anyway, many thanks - I think I can truly say that all is clear now.


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## NagyKiss

Not a tittle!


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## seitt

> 'Don't promise me a cow'. No, now I see both 'сули' and 'обещай' are very weird with the cow, especially when the cow is in genitive, but the sentences would be weird even if it was in accusative.


This is interesting – so what word do you use when promising (or whatever the exact equivalent is) a cow if not 'сули' or 'обещай'? I take it you are referring to some kind of saying?


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## Ёж!

Oh, we'd just say something else, depending on context and the person one would speak to; no, I am not referring to any saying. "Обойдусь без коровы" (harsh), "Спасибо, но мне корова не требуется" (neutral, not friendly), etc. My mistake and the reason why I should not have mentioned cows was that a cow is, well, just a property, but the crane in that proverb is a symbol of good fate (and sure, no human is expected to make my fate for me, given that even I myself cannot _govern_ it), so these words are used differently and the example with the cow was not explanatory.


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## seitt

Many thanks, all clear now.


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