# The word "Allah" in other languages



## modus.irrealis

From this post:



			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> *W*hy does one go to a mosque*? T*o pray,with due respects*.*
> *I* have sneaked in to offer my prayers when *i *was a child and *i *am sure it made *G*od *ALLAH* happier, _la ilahillalahmohamedrasoolalah,alahoakhber - could you please explain this?_
Click to expand...

Since I couldn't find anything on this topic before, I thought I'd bring this up. This isn't about GenJen54 specifically, but I noticed she edited God to Allah because this was in the context of Islam, and I've always wondered why many people in English (and perhaps other languages), both Muslim and non-Muslim, use Allah instead of God. Can someone explain why? I mean Orthodox people don't say Theos in English, Catholics don't say Deus, Lutherans don't say Gott, etc. (although I realize not all these cases are exactly parallel). As far as I know the "Allah" just means God and is used by non-Muslim Arabs as well, but they don't say Allah in English. At first I thought this was a non-Muslim thing, because the Muslims I know always say God, and I thought it might be just an ignorance/intolerance thing, but now I see Muslims use it all the time on tv, in newspapers, on the internet, but I can't see why.

Thymios


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## GenJen54

I changed the post for two reasons.

1.  Allah is frequently used by Muslims speaking English.  In fact, I cannot think of a time when I have heard any English-speaking Muslim refer to Allah as God. 

2.  I had received a PM requesting the change be made.

It's an interesting question.


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## maxiogee

Could it be that Muslims appear to take offence on behalf of their religion very easily - they are, taken as a whole, more likely to complain about blasphemy by non-believers, offences against Islam's prophet and its God, and other perceived insults, than followers (again, as a whole) of many of the other religions - and that to placate them we non-believers use Allah's name?


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## la reine victoria

Any Muslims I speak to in English always refer to God as Allah - I think they would consider it disrespectful to use the name "God".

But "Allah" is simply the Muslim meaning of "the one and only God".

Anyone who is a monotheist may use a variety of names.  God, Jehovah, Yahweh, The Lord, The Almighty, The King of Kings, Heavenly Father, The Divine.






LRV


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## Outsider

Do Muslims really prefer to say Allah instead of God when they're not speaking Arabic? I wonder if that has anything to do with their preferring to read the Quran in Arabic, instead of translating it.


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## modus.irrealis

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> 2.  I had received a PM requesting the change be made.


and



			
				la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Any Muslims I speak to in English always refer to God as Allah - I think they would consider it disrespectful to use the name "God".
> 
> But "Allah" is simply the Muslim meaning of "the one and only God".


This seems to establish that it is found disrespectful by (some) Muslims, but I still can't imagine why. If the word means "God" why would "God" be disrespectful.



			
				maxiogee said:
			
		

> Could it be that Muslims appear to take offence on behalf of their religion very easily - they are, taken as a whole, more likely to complain about blasphemy by non-believers, offences against Islam's prophet and its God, and other perceived insults, than followers (again, as a whole) of many of the other religions - and that to placate them we non-believers use Allah's name?


Oversensititity eh?  English speakers being accomadating is the exact opposite of what I had first thought. But isn't one ocomplaint that Muslims have that non-Muslims think they believe in "some other" God, when Muslims believe that their God is the God of Abraham and thus the same God as the Christian God (in some sense -- I don't want to get into a theological debate about this issue).



			
				Outsider said:
			
		

> Do Muslims really prefer to say Allah instead of God when they're not speaking Arabic? I wonder if that has anything to do with their preferring to read the Quran in Arabic, instead of translating it.


In English media, I would say that Allah is basically the only option, although it seems my everyday encounters are different than others here, and it's quite easy to find Muslim websites using God, now that I looked for them. But your comment makes me wonder about non-Arab Muslims and their terminology. Did they borrow the word Allah or do they use their own traditional word? What do Farsi speakers say for example?

Thymios


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## Outsider

GenJen did not say the person who made the request was Muslim...


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## modus.irrealis

Outsider said:
			
		

> GenJen did not say the person who made the request was Muslim...



Good point. But someone still found the idea of calling the Muslim God "God" improper (I'm not entirely sure what word to use here), and whether they are Muslim or not, I can't for the life of me see why.


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## brian

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Anyone who is a monotheist may use a variety of names.  God, Jehovah, Yahweh, The Lord, The Almighty, The King of Kings, Heavenly Father, The Divine.



I'm not too sure about this.  I'm not theologian or anything, but _Jehovah/Yahweh_ both come from the Hebrew used in the old testament and mean "I am who am" literally, or something along the lines of "I am (the one) who is," or maybe "I am being/is-ness/existence."  Whatever the case may be, these two words are rooted in _Biblical _Hebrew, which is unrelated to any theology with origins outside of that of Hebrew/Judaic.

And as for "Heavenly Father," this seems to refer to the Christian Trinity--Father, Son, & Holy Spirit--three parts of the same one God.  Other religions may not believe in this trinity and so "Father" may not be appropriate.

The biggest problem I see with mixing and matching theological terminology is the history of each word.  They are terms loaded with centuries, sometimes millenia, of connotations.


Brian


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## ukuca

In Turkish, we say Allah (as a Muslim country, of course). Some say "tanrı" also but most Muslims don't like to hear this word, I guess they call that name for other gods except "Allah".


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## Outsider

brian8733 said:
			
		

> I'm not too sure about this.  I'm not theologian or anything, but _Jehovah/Yahweh_ both come from the Hebrew used in the old testament and mean "I am who am" literally, or something along the lines of "I am (the one) who is," or maybe "I am being/is-ness/existence."  Whatever the case may be, these two words are rooted in _Biblical _Hebrew, which is unrelated to any theology with origins outside of that of Hebrew/Judaic.


Curiously, _YHWH_ is almost the opposite of _Allah_. You are not supposed to say it aloud.


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## panjabigator

I have many Muslims friends, and I remember one conversation where one of them said God and not Allah.  Panjabi muslims say Allah, Rabba, and Im sure the other 99 names for God.


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## maxiogee

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> Oversensititity eh?  English speakers being accomadating is the exact opposite of what I had first thought. But isn't one ocomplaint that Muslims have that non-Muslims think they believe in "some other" God, when Muslims believe that their God is the God of Abraham and thus the same God as the Christian God (in some sense -- I don't want to get into a theological debate about this issue).



*If* they believe in the same God as the Christians do, it might help inform the Christians of this if they used the same word as Christians do when they speak to each other in another language.

You may not want to get into a theological debate , but you can't claim the equality of these two "concepts" of God by just claiming them to be "the god of Abraham" - these two faiths took the concept of Abraham's God and modified it.

Respond to this, or not, as you see fit, I'm just putting it out here, and love a good quibble!
*Can it be the same God* if Christians believe that there are three Gods in one being, one of which was born as a man, died as a man and was resurrected as a man, prior to ascending into heaven as a man - and _in_ doing all this was wholly God and wholly man, and _by_ doing this all changed the relationship between God and humanity forever?


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## papillon

I've heard that in Malta they use the word "Allah" to refer to the Christian God. Is that true?


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## Outsider

ukuca said:
			
		

> In Turkish, we say Allah (as a Muslim country, of course). Some say "tanr?" also but most Muslims don't like to hear this word, I guess they call that name for other gods except "Allah".


I found this:



> Allah is the most frequently used name of God in Islam. It originally simply meant "the God" in Arabic, and was used in pre-Islamic times to refer to a divinity worshipped in Mecca. It is properly translated as "God" in English, and seen by Muslims as the same God of Christianity. As such, contrary to much popular understanding of Allah as a distinct God, *it is the word used by Arab Jews and Christians when speaking of God*.
> An Islamic tradition states that there are 99 Names of God, which are His attributes.
> 
> Besides those names of Qur'anic origin, some other names have been used, be it far less widely, e.g. *the Osmanli anachronism Tangri (originally the pagan Turks' celestial chief god, corresponding to the Mongol Tengri)*.
> 
> names of God


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## modus.irrealis

Maxiogee,

If it's debate you want, 

Orthodox and Catholics have no problem using the same word even though their Gods are very different, e.g. Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father _and_ the Son, but the Orthodox believe from the Father alone. Do they have the same God? I think so and the two sides don't seem to disagree.

And then there's Judaism, and I am sure most Christians would be very offended if they were told they don't worship the same God as the Jews. And, from my not so knowledge point of view, it seems the Jewish and Muslim Gods have more in common with each other than either does with the Trinitarian God of most Christians.

For me, Christians, Judaism, and Islam all have the same God in the sense that (in general) they all see themselves as having the correct understanding of the God of Abraham, while the others are wrong, incomplete, and so on.


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## GenJen54

> For me, Christians, Judaism, and Islam all have the same God in the sense that (in general) they all see themselves as having the correct understanding of the God of Abraham, while the others are wrong, incomplete, and so on.


 
Who are "the others?" Why are they wrong? 

Please do not invite a polemic that serves only as judgment against others.

If Muslims from certain countries wish to call their God "Allah" and not God, who are we to tell them otherwise?

Did you not learn anything by reading the thread regarding the use of Arabic in Mosques? Perhaps part of your answer lies there.


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## modus.irrealis

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Who are "the others?" Why are they wrong?
> 
> Please do not invite a polemic that serves only as judgment against others.


I'm not sure what you mean. For Christians, the others are Jews and Muslims. For Jews, it's Christians and Muslims. For Muslims, it's Jews and Christians.



> If Muslims from certain countries wish to call their God "Allah" and not God, who are we to tell them otherwise?


It's not a question of telling them what do, but of understanding why. And not just why Muslims do it, but non-Muslims as well.



> Did you not learn anything by reading the thread regarding the use of Arabic in Mosques? Perhaps part of your answer lies there.


I'm probably misreading you, but are you implying I should have learned something? If so, you might as well just tell me.


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## GenJen54

It seems to me, most Muslims use the word Allah as used in their Holy Book, the Qu'ran, which according to the other thread, is the _*required language*_ for that Holy Book. 

Please see Posts # 5, 6, 12 and 15, which best explain this...at least, to me.


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## la reine victoria

> modus.irrealis. What do Farsi speakers say for example?


 

I lived and worked among Farsi speakers in Iran many years ago, in my archaeological capacity.  My two little pottery-washing boys (who were brothers) taught me a great deal of Farsi in exchange for English.  

I do recall that, when speaking to me in English, as soon as they heard the call of the Muezzin they would say, "Excuse please, time with Allah."  

They weren't allowed to leave the site but did their praying in front of me.




LRV


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## cherine

When I, Arabic speaking muslim, speak of God in Arabic I say Allah, Rabby (my God), Rabbena (our God). When I translate/speak French or English I write/say Dieu-God.
It's very recent -at least for me- that I learnt that people (muslims and non-muslims) have this discussion about calling the Muslim's God Allah, as if to distinguish between Him and God (i.e. Christian God) which seemed very odd to me.
I believe this started from either non-muslims who wanted to show/confirm the difference between the so-called different Gods (I say "so-called" because as I muslim I believe they're only one, and that the difference is in the way we call Him not in who He is), and then Muslims (some of them) adopted this idea as a way to distinguish themselves from the others (!)

Also, I don't want to wander off topic, but maybe you'd be interested to know that there's a recent call among some muslims -specially translators and non-Arabic speaking muslims- to call some Islamic rituals by their Arabic names and just transliterate them instead of translating them. eg. Salat (instead of prayer), zakat (almsgiving/charity), hajj (pilgrimmage), hijab (veil).....


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## GenJen54

Cherine said:
			
		

> It's very recent -at least for me- that I learnt that people (muslims and non-muslims) have this discussion about calling the Muslim's God Allah, as if to distinguish between Him and God (i.e. Christian God) which seemed very odd to me.


 
That's interesting. As a non-practicing, generally-spiritual, quasi-Christian, I personally always thought it a sign of respect to call the name of God by the name he is called in that language/religion.

Others, I suppose, use this as a weapon which serves to make their preachings all the more divisive (which is why I am only a "quasi-Christian.")

I have to wonder if this transliteration is only different because of its being a religious word.  Other words, Arab and Jewish, have been transliterated and easily folded into the English language, without anyone taking issue with it.


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## maxiogee

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> For me, Christians, Judaism, and Islam all have the same God in the sense that (in general) they all see themselves as having the correct understanding of the God of Abraham, while the others are wrong, incomplete, and so on.



For me, as an agnostic, there either is a God (a single supreme being) or there is not. Personally I have moved away totally from the notion of an interventionist God - my jury is still out on the possibility of a non-interventionist one. If there is one, it doesn't need my worship, of that I am absolutely certain.

My name is Tony. To some people I am Anthony. To others I am maxiogee.
To yet others I am Uncle Tony, or husband, or father, or brother, or (until recently) son.
I am, to yet other people a colleague, a friend, a neighbour and "a fellow sufferer". To many I am a stranger.
But in all of these relationships I, by whatever name I am known, remain me.

All those who worship a God are, obviously, worshipping the same one. They just do it in different forms and using different names and rituals. Even polytheists who think that they are worshipping different entities are, if there is a God, worshipping different aspects of the one being.


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## cherine

I was going to edit my previous post, when my connection got interrupted 

So, I was saying :
Arab-speaking Christians also call God "Allah", I think this is a prove of the synonymity.
Also maybe you'd be interested in checking this thread, it's a bit lengthy (3 pages), so you can start from the second page.


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## modus.irrealis

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> It seems to me, most Muslims use the word Allah as used in their Holy Book, the Qu'ran, which according to the other thread, is the _*required language*_ for that Holy Book.
> 
> Please see Posts # 5, 6, 12 and 15, which best explain this...at least, to me.


Thanks for the references. I'm still not clear on the why. There are analagous practices (and rationales) in my church, but no qualms with using the word God in English, although there's probably too many differences to make a decent comparison.



			
				la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I do recall that, when speaking to me in English, as soon as they heard the call of the Muezzin they would say, "Excuse please, time with Allah."


So it would seem on the basis of this and Turkish (not really the best base for making conclusions) that the word "Allah" spread with the religion. I guess it's just a cultural difference then, since Jewish writers had no problem using the Greek "Theos," and Christians then used the local word too.

Now I'm thinking, Outsider, that you were on to something when you said



> Curiously, _YHWH_ is almost the opposite of _Allah_. You are not supposed to say it aloud.


Maybe it goes back to a desire to not say God's name in Judaism that established the tradition of translating the word and then this just passed on to Christianity but not to Islam (except I guess in the original choice to use the word Allah for the concept).


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## cherine

Sorry if I'm being too talkative here 
Here's a verse from the Qur'an, in three different translation (imagine if a group of people praying together and each using a text ! but this is the topic of another thread... sorry) :
_017.110__ *_
*YUSUFALI:* Say: Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names.
*PICKTHAL:* Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. 
*SHAKIR:* Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names.

The Arabic is : 

قُلِ ادْعُواْ اللّهَ أَوِ ادْعُواْ الرَّحْمَـنَ أَيًّا مَّا تَدْعُواْ فَلَهُ الأَسْمَاء الْحُسْنَى ​
transliteration: qul ud3u 'llaaha aw id3u 'r-raHmaana, ayyan ma tad3uu falahu 'l-asmaa2u 'l-7usnaa

* The first number (17) is that of the surat or chapter, the other (110) is the number of the áya or verse
* Yusuf Ali, Pickthal and Shakir are the three translators. There are many other English translations of the Qur'an, but these are the most famous three.


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## Pivra

In Jawi, the language spoken by Muslim Thais in the south, they use

อัลเลาะฮฺ = Allah
พระอัลเลาะฮฺ = Pra Allah
องค์อัลเลาะฮฺ  = Ong Allah 

 They all mean Allah, Pra and Ong are just the honorific articles put in front to make the word Allah holier.


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## .   1

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Could it be that Muslims appear to take offence on behalf of their religion very easily - they are, taken as a whole, more likely to complain about blasphemy by non-believers, offences against Islam's prophet and its God, and other perceived insults, than followers (again, as a whole) of many of the other religions - and that to placate them we non-believers use Allah's name?


I do not know what Allah means but I do know what God means.

I will use God at will and be damned to the consequences because I am so confident with my grasp of my language that I know that I can cause offence or raise praise as I choose.

I will not use Allah as this is a word that is part of a language I do not know and it is possible the central word in an often extremely defensive or reactionary faith so I choose to offer offence or praise to the limits of my ability.

.,,


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## barkley04

god is allah.
la ilaha illa allah means there is no god but allah.
don't get confused people, god is allah in arabic or we can say also rabb as in "the god of all the skies and earthes" which is rabbu assamawati wal ardh.


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## barkley04

ALLAH in islam has 99 different equivalent names.
arrahman
arrahim
almaliku
alqoddusu.....
and after each , we must say jalla jalaluhu i.e referring to His  majesty and power


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## Brioche

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> From this post:
> 
> 
> Since I couldn't find anything on this topic before, I thought I'd bring this up. This isn't about GenJen54 specifically, but I noticed she edited God to Allah because this was in the context of Islam, and I've always wondered why many people in English (and perhaps other languages), both Muslim and non-Muslim, use Allah instead of God. Can someone explain why? I mean Orthodox people don't say Theos in English, Catholics don't say Deus, Lutherans don't say Gott, etc. (although I realize not all these cases are exactly parallel). As far as I know the "Allah" just means God and is used by non-Muslim Arabs as well, but they don't say Allah in English. At first I thought this was a non-Muslim thing, because the Muslims I know always say God, and I thought it might be just an ignorance/intolerance thing, but now I see Muslims use it all the time on tv, in newspapers, on the internet, but I can't see why.
> 
> Thymios


 
In the "normal" parlance of English speakers, Allah is used for the concept of  "god" according to Islamic belief.

Similarly, God [with a capital G] is god according to the Christian and Jewish view.

You can go into long, theological discussions about whether Adonai/El Shaddai/Jehovah/YHWH/Theos/Kyrios = Allah, but Christians are quite adamant that the God of the Old and the New Testaments is one and the same.

English-speaking Christians do not call their god "Allah".


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## modus.irrealis

maxiogee said:
			
		

> All those who worship a God are, obviously, worshipping the same one. They just do it in different forms and using different names and rituals. Even polytheists who think that they are worshipping different entities are, if there is a God, worshipping different aspects of the one being.


I missed this before, but _obviously_? That doesn't seem obvious at all. 



			
				Brioche said:
			
		

> In the "normal" parlance of English speakers, Allah is used for the concept of "god" according to Islamic belief.


I've thought about it and it's still unclear to me why some, Muslim and non-Muslim, find the word "God" unsuitable for that concept.



> Similarly, God [with a capital G] is god according to the Christian and Jewish view.


You say _the_ but there is no one view that could be called Christian, let alone Christian and Jewish. I'm not sure why more views can't be fit into the word, and in fact the word does have a broader meaning since many deists for example have no qualms about using the word God.



> You can go into long, theological discussions about whether Adonai/El Shaddai/Jehovah/YHWH/Theos/Kyrios = Allah, but Christians are quite adamant that the God of the Old and the New Testaments is one and the same.
> 
> English-speaking Christians do not call their god "Allah".



I'm not sure why you say this, but I will add that Christians when speaking Arabic certainly say "Allah."


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## Brioche

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> You say _the_ but there is no one view that could be called Christian, let alone Christian and Jewish. I'm not sure why more views can't be fit into the word, and in fact the word does have a broader meaning since many deists for example have no qualms about using the word God.


 
I will admit that there are various opinions among those people who call themselves Christian about the _nature_ of God. For example, is God unitary or triune? Is Jesus Christ God or Man or God-Man? Are Jesus and God co-equal? and so on.

However, I am not aware of any Christian groups who don't maintain that the God mentioned in the Old Testament - under various names - is the self-same God mentioned in the New Testament. The Christians claim the God of the Jews as their God.

Most Christians take the view that there is, and can be, only *one* God, so why say anything other than God in whatever language you speak? The Jehovah's Witness group make a big thing about God's name, but they are a special case.


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## modus.irrealis

Brioche said:
			
		

> I will admit that there are various opinions among those people who call themselves Christian about the _nature_ of God. For example, is God unitary or triune? Is Jesus Christ God or Man or God-Man? Are Jesus and God co-equal? and so on.
> 
> However, I am not aware of any Christian groups who don't maintain that the God mentioned in the Old Testament - under various names - is the self-same God mentioned in the New Testament. The Christians claim the God of the Jews as their God.


I've come to believe that no matter the doctrine and how irreconciable it might seem to be with more mainstream forms of Christianity, you can always find a group that calls itself Christian and believes that doctrine at the same time. The group you're looking for is Marcionism.

But also, as far as I know, Muslims claim the God of the Jews as their God.



> Most Christians take the view that there is, and can be, only *one* God, so why say anything other than God in whatever language you speak? The Jehovah's Witness group make a big thing about God's name, but they are a special case.


That's my view as well, which is why I don't understand the reluctance to use the word "God" when discussing Islam in English.


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## Outsider

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> I've come to believe that no matter the doctrine and how irreconciable it might seem to be with more mainstream forms of Christianity, you can always find a group that calls itself Christian and believes that doctrine at the same time. The group you're looking for is Marcionism.


It's debatable whether the Marcionists were Christians. Certainly, their beliefs had little in common with those of any brand of modern Christianity.

However, I agree with your other points. "God" is not a Christian, or Judeo-Christian concept. It's valid for any monotheistic religion, perhaps even for some others.

But it would be interesting to have more opinions from the Muslims themselves. Cherine has given her point of view. She sees no reason why God as conceived by Islam should obligatorily be called 'Allah' in English. What about others?


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## ukuca

Dear Outsider, I'm aware of that but in Turkey when you say "tanrı" instead of "Allah" most Muslims response as you've said something you shouldn't. For me it doesn't change anything but my concern on this subject is why it does for them.


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## Outsider

There may be a special reason for that. It seems that Tanri (sorry, I can't delete the dot), or Tangri, was the name of a pagan deity.


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## maxiogee

maxiogee said:
			
		

> All those who worship a God are, obviously, worshipping the same one. They just do it in different forms and using different names and rituals. Even polytheists who think that they are worshipping different entities are, if there is a God, worshipping different aspects of the one being.






			
				modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> I missed this before, but _obviously_? That doesn't seem obvious at all.



How many Gods are there in your theology?
If you are one of the many who live, and have lived, believing there is only one God, then how can they be believing in different Gods.

If A says "*There is one God* and his name is X", and
if B says "*There is one God* has its name is ineffable", and 
if C says "*There is one God* and her name is Y"…

… they are all speaking about different 'manifestations' of the one being. Why doesn't that "seem obvious at all"?


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## maxiogee

Brioche said:
			
		

> You can go into long, theological discussions about whether Adonai/El Shaddai/Jehovah/YHWH/Theos/Kyrios = Allah, but Christians are quite adamant that the God of the Old and the New Testaments is one and the same.



Is the Christian God, the one who "so loved the world, etc" really the same entity as the one who smote and destroyed entire tribes and cities, the one who said to himself "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.", the one who visited plagues upon people whose rulers were enslaving "his" people, who left "his" people wandering aimlessly in a desert for forty years - and who in the last century appeared to abandon "his" people totally?

The Christians may _claim_ that their God is the same one as in the Old Testament, but what they say about him belies this.


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## la reine victoria

Well it's obvious to me Tony.  "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" comes to mind.


I am a monotheist and, having been brought up in a Christian background, I know him as "God".

I know you are an agnostic but I'm not and I really don't think that the God I know gives a flying fig about what people choose to call him (with all due respect of course).

If you go by the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples (I don't know if it is true or not) then Christians should say "Our Father".  "The Lord" appears many times throughout the Bible.




LRV


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## la reine victoria

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Is the Christian God, the one who "so loved the world, etc" really the same entity as the one who smote and destroyed entire tribes and cities, the one who said to himself "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.", the one who visited plagues upon people whose rulers were enslaving "his" people, who left "his" people wandering aimlessly in a desert for forty years - and who in the last century appeared to abandon "his" people totally?
> 
> The Christians may _claim_ that their God is the same one as in the Old Testament, but what they say about him belies this.


 

To me he is the same God.  I don't practise a set religion.

To discuss the whys and wherefores of what he supposedly did would be going off topic.




LRV


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## Dr. Quizá

I was wondering... How do you translate "God" into Arabic when it's refering the Christian god? Is it "Allah" as well? Is it seen as the same god?

BTW, in Spanish we write "Alá".


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## panjabigator

I really don't think saying the word "Allah" is in issue in English...I think most people just see God as God.  The Sikh term for God is Waheguru, and I certainly do not say that word when I am talking with an audience who doesn't understand it.  And when speaking in English amongst people who know the word, quite frankly, I'd feel that throwing in that term would just sound a tad odd...maybe even as if someone were trying to attention to themselves.  I guess I feel this way because for me any term is fine for God, because the Sikh interpretation of God is that our God is the same as everyone elses!

I think I used the word God like 15 times!


----------



## Outsider

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> I was wondering... How do you translate "God" into Arabic when it's refering the Christian god? Is it "Allah" as well? Is it seen as the same god?


Yes. See this post.


----------



## Dr. Quizá

Outsider said:
			
		

> Yes. See this post.



I see  



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> I don't speak Farsi, but in Arabic the word Allah is the word for God, and it's used by both muslims and christians, at least here in Egypt.


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## modus.irrealis

Outsider said:
			
		

> It's debatable whether the Marcionists were Christians. Certainly, their beliefs had little in common with those of any brand of modern Christianity.


But it's no less debatable, from my point of view, that Protestants, e.g., are Christian. If we're going to use a very narrow definition of "Christian," whose narrow definition will it be?



			
				maxiogee said:
			
		

> How many Gods are there in your theology?
> If you are one of the many who live, and have lived, believing there is only one God, then how can they be believing in different Gods.


Alright, let's limit this to monotheistic religions, because I don't see how you can go and tell polytheists that they're "really" worshipping various manifestations of this one deity. But the answer to your question is simple: it's obvious (to me) that you can worship something that doesn't exist, so monotheist A and monotheist B are worshipping different gods if say B's god exists but A's does not. Even if there's just one god, it doesn't mean that A was really worshipping that god. And that's even without getting into the details of what "worshipping" God means -- if the real God think you have to fast every other Tuesday to worship God, doesn't that mean that everyone who didn't do so wasn't worshipping God after all?


----------



## maxiogee

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> But the answer to your question is simple: it's obvious (to me) that you can worship something that doesn't exist, so monotheist A and monotheist B are worshipping different gods if say B's god exists but A's does not. Even if there's just one god, it doesn't mean that A was really worshipping that god. And that's even without getting into the details of what "worshipping" God means -- if the real God think you have to fast every other Tuesday to worship God, doesn't that mean that everyone who didn't do so wasn't worshipping God after all?



If they both believe in a single God - and it seems that we agree that they do - then the clothes in which they dress that God are immaterial. And as to the idea that this God requires to be worshipped in a particular way, why doesn't it inform _everyone_ of this, and not confine itself to revelations to a single individual or a few individuals, in isolated communities in times of serious lack of communications?

I'm sorry, but if different people believe in a supreme being, then they must be believing in the same one - by whatever name they call it, and in whatever way they worship it. It is not in how we worship that the importance lies, but in how we behave according to what we believe the rules of the game to be.


----------



## modus.irrealis

maxiogee said:
			
		

> If they both believe in a single God - and it seems that we agree that they do - then the clothes in which they dress that God are immaterial. And as to the idea that this God requires to be worshipped in a particular way, why doesn't it inform _everyone_ of this, and not confine itself to revelations to a single individual or a few individuals, in isolated communities in times of serious lack of communications?


We'll just have to disagree. I don't see how you are justified in claiming that different notions are necessarily labels for the same being, if that being exists. If one group thinks of their God as having created the universe out of nothing and the other thinks the universe is coeternal with God, they are obviously not worshipping the same being. If all monotheists, and polytheists "really" worship the same thing if it really exists, do atheists "really" worship this being if it really exists? And if not, what's the difference?



> I'm sorry, but if different people believe in a supreme being, then they must be believing in the same one - by whatever name they call it, and in whatever way they worship it. It is not in how we worship that the importance lies, but in how we behave according to what we believe the rules of the game to be.


The fasting example I gave above is an example of behaviour, so I'm not sure what you mean.


----------



## maxiogee

My point was that, in the example you gave, it is not the act of fasting which is important, it is whether we fast if we believe we are expected to.


----------



## Chazzwozzer

ukuca said:
			
		

> In Turkish, we say Allah (as a Muslim country, of course). Some say "tanrı" also but most Muslims don't like to hear this word, I guess they call that name for other gods except "Allah".



_In modern Turkish, the derived word "Tanrı" is used as the generic word for "god", also for the Judeo–Christo–Islamic God and is often used today by practicing Muslims to refer to their God in Turkish as an alternative to the word "Allah", the -originally Arabic - Islamic word for "God,".

It is said to be derived from "Tan" or "Teng" which literally means sky and "ger", which is the Mongolian name for the Central Asian nomadic tent (yurt). It is also used in other Turkic languages in such forms as Teñri, Teñggri, Teñgeri, Teñir, Teñger and Tengere._


As a total aside, I wouldn't recognize Turkey as a _Muslim_ country. As a matter of fact, Turkey is definitely secular unlike other dominantly Muslim-populated countries.


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## Qcumber

I noticed Christian Arabs say Allah for God. I suppose Muslims borrowed Allah from them because Christianity is anterior to Islam by six centuries.
I have got the Arabic version of the Protestant Bible in English. 
The first sentence of the first chapter is (my transliteration):
fii l bad'i xalaqa *llaah*u s samaawaati wa l 'arDa
[There are no capitals in Arabic so I don't use capitals in my transliteration. The capital D stands for the emphatic /d/.]


----------



## barkley04

Qcumber said:
			
		

> I noticed Christian Arabs say Allah for God. I suppose Muslims borrowed Allah from them because Christianity is anterior to Islam by six centuries.
> I have got the Arabic version of the Protestant Bible in English.
> The first sentence of the first chapter is (my transliteration):
> fii l bad'i xalaqa *llaah*u s samaawaati wa l 'arDa
> [There are no capitals in Arabic so I don't use capitals in my transliteration. The capital D stands for the emphatic /d/.]


Let us see things this way, arab christians generally say RABB or ILAH instead of ALLAH to mean GOD. But after the appearence of islam and the conquests, they knew that god can be called ALLAH so they used this word. Besides, in the holy quraan, it is mentioned that ALLAH is the first word and all the prophets from ADAM to MOHAMMED may peace of allah be upon them called him so.


----------



## Qcumber

barkley04 said:
			
		

> Let us see things this way, arab christians generally say RABB or ILAH instead of ALLAH to mean GOD. But after the appearence of islam and the conquests, they knew that god can be called ALLAH so they used this word. Besides, in the holy quraan, it is mentioned that ALLAH is the first word and all the prophets from ADAM to MOHAMMED may peace of allah be upon them called him so.


 
Do you mean the people you call "prophets" used the term _allaah_, and that Arab Christians didn't use it before the advent of Islam? Very odd.

By "prophets" I suppose you mean biblical figures from Adam to Jesus-Christ. The problem is they didn't speak Arabic, but Hebrew, Aramean, along with Babylonian, Greek, Arabic, Syriac, etc. depending on where and when they were. How could they have used an Arabic term?
I'll pass on the fact that nobody knows what language Adam and Eve spoke.

Once the Christian religion was established, Arab Christians expressed their beliefs in their language, so used _allaah_ "_the_ god" to refer to God, the unique God, not to be confused with the various pre-Islamic deities like the famous _al laat_, a female deity worshipped at Mecca near the Kaaba (_laat_ is the feminine of _laah_).

It is pretty obvious the prophet of Islam borrowed this use of _al laah_ "God" from Arab Christians since the non-Christian Arabs of his time had several gods.

Also

_rabbii_ "my Lord" is used by Christians and Muslims.
_'ilaah_ "deity, god" is a general term.


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## panjabigator

The term illah is seen in the Arabic statement "la ilahaha illah allah" which means that "there is no god but Allah."


----------



## Qcumber

panjabigator said:
			
		

> The term illah is seen in the Arabic statement "la ilahaha illah allah" which means that "there is no god but Allah."


 
Exactly. By the way the exact translation of _laa 'ilaaha 'illaa l laah_ is "There is no god but _the_ God."


----------



## Outsider

Qcumber said:
			
		

> It is pretty obvious the prophet of Islam borrowed this use of _al laah_ "God" from Arab Christians since the non-Christian Arabs of his time had several gods.


Really? What makes it so obvious?

Here's an alternative explanation that makes more sense to me: 

1) "Allah" is of Arabic and Muslim origin.
2) After the Arab expansion, the conquered peoples adopted elements of Arabic culture, including the language, and the word for God.

Not surpsiring at all.


----------



## barkley04

Qcumber said:
			
		

> Do you mean the people you call "prophets" used the term _allaah_, and that Arab Christians didn't use it before the advent of Islam? Very odd.
> 
> By "prophets" I suppose you mean biblical figures from Adam to Jesus-Christ. The problem is they didn't speak Arabic, but Hebrew, Aramean, along with Babylonian, Greek, Arabic, Syriac, etc. depending on where and when they were. How could they have used an Arabic term?
> I'll pass on the fact that nobody knows what language Adam and Eve spoke.
> 
> Once the Christian religion was established, Arab Christians expressed their beliefs in their language, so used _allaah_ "_the_ god" to refer to God, the unique God, not to be confused with the various pre-Islamic deities like the famous _al laat_, a female deity worshipped at Mecca near the Kaaba (_laat_ is the feminine of _laah_).
> 
> It is pretty obvious the prophet of Islam borrowed this use of _al laah_ "God" from Arab Christians since the non-Christian Arabs of his time had several gods.
> 
> Also
> 
> _rabbii_ "my Lord" is used by Christians and Muslims.
> _'ilaah_ "deity, god" is a general term.


I will say that some of what you said is right but I am sure that all the prophets spoke arabic since our prophet Mohamed led them all in a prayer in the mosk of jerusalem and this is an undeniable fact.
Even the messie may peace of allah be upon him spoke arabic and foretold the appearence of Mohamed.
In other words, the prophets were multilingual.


----------



## maxiogee

barkley04 said:
			
		

> I will say that some of what you said is right but I am sure that all the prophets spoke arabic since our prophet Mohamed led them all in a prayer in the mosk of jerusalem and this is an undeniable fact.
> Even the messie may peace of allah be upon him spoke arabic and foretold the appearence of Mohamed.
> In other words, the prophets were multilingual.




"the messie"? Do you mean "The Messiah"?


----------



## barkley04

yes, jesus christ or as we call him in arabic *ALMASIHOU ISSA IBNU MARYAM. (the messiah jesus son of mary).*


----------



## Chazzwozzer

I highly doubt that Jesus knew Arabic. I know his first language was Armaic because it was the colloquial language of Palestinian Jews at that time. I've never heard anything that Jesus also used to speak Arabic or all prophetes were multilingual.


----------



## MarX

papillon said:


> I've heard that in Malta they use the word "Allah" to refer to the Christian God. Is that true?





cherine said:


> I was going to edit my previous post, when my connection got interrupted
> 
> So, I was saying :
> Arab-speaking Christians also call God "Allah", I think this is a prove of the synonymity.
> Also maybe you'd be interested in checking this thread, it's a bit lengthy (3 pages), so you can start from the second page.



I don't know about Malta, but in Indonesia, the over forty millions Christians call their God *Allah*.

I like what God says about himself in the Bible:
*I am who I am*, or something like that.


----------



## Nanon

I heard Iranian Christians saying "Inch'Allah" in Farsi.
The religion may not be shared by different communities, but language is. And expressions are.


----------



## palomnik

As a non-Muslim, but someone who has spent a fair amount of time in the Middle East and has a lot of affection for Islamic thought, there are a couple of observations I can add:

_Allah _is not the only word for God in Arabic.  The other word for "Diety" is _ila, _as in _la ilaha ila'llah.  _Muslims use the name _Allah _because 1) this is the neme He told them to call Him, and 2) it specifically denotes their understanding of what the Deity is.

Also, Muslim thinkers throughout history were not insensible to the understanding of what constitutes God to non-Muslims, but their preference for _Allah _is based on the belief that their understanding of God is different than what most, if not all other religions do.

Finally, unlike most other religions and specifically unlike Christianity, Muslims consider not just their beliefs, but the actual forms of worship that they use to be directly revealed by God.  This includes the terminology they use.

For the traditional Muslim, belief is not an option, it's a definition of reality.


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## Outsider

However, it also seems to me that many Muslims react against the habit that some westerners have of saying "Allah" instead of "God" in reference to Islam. I suppose they perceive this as a form of disconnecting "Allah" from the "real" (Christian) god. When westerners say that Muslims "worship Allah", it can come off as though we were speaking of a subsidiary deity from some pagan pantheon; saying "they worship Allah" as one might say "they worship Baal", or "they worship Krishna".

In fact, from what I've been led to understand, Islamic doctrine very emphatically identifies "Allah" with the Christian and the Jewish God. It's not some foreign, exotic deity; it is the one and only God of all monotheistic faiths.


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## avok

I am someone from a Muslim country;

Allah : God,

God: Allah



When I speak in English I say "God" if not, depends on the language I speak: Allah, Deus etc.

Calling Allah, as God in English is the "raison d'etre" of believing in one and only God. If a Muslim believer says he believes in Allah (not God), he directly accepts that there "are" "other gods" that he does not believe in. That means there is more than one god: Allah, God,Deus,Dios ......And if you believe in "one and only" God it would be paradoxal to give him/her more than one name.

I guess it is a bit like saying "Latina / Latino" for someone who is "Latin" in the United States.

I guess thats a recent American (?) tradition to call God as Allah even in English. When I was little, I'd always read, hear "God" in English papers, magazines, shows etc when refering to God's role in Muslim countries, not Allah. 

I don't know what has happened since. The Western part of the world suddenly found out that Muslims actually believe in a random god called Allah other than judeo-christian "God". Since both cultures (judeo-christian and muslim) impose "one and only" God, thus one of them has to be...."not real". I wonder which one? Not hard to guess though.


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## Outsider

Though I guess there is also some ambivalence from within the Islamic community, because of the importance you give to reading the Coran _in Arabic_...


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## avok

"You?" I dont particularly feel belonging to any community. I cant say I am a much of a believer of any religion. But whats the point of reading in a language you dont know??

Oh yes... some Muslims also call God as Allah when speaking "English". If a Muslim believer speaks of Allah in English, that might mean one of those three things:

1) He believes that there is Allah (his personal God) and other Gods: This would be non-sense because Islam says there is only one God.

2) He believes in Allah but does not believe in Christian God: This is non-sense too since Islam says God is everybody's God. christians, jews...does not matter.

3) He believes in Allah but secretly thinks that Christians etc believe in "something" called "God".


----------



## Outsider

avok said:


> I am someone from a Muslim country;


Sorry, I misread that to mean that you were a Muslim. My mistake. 



avok said:


> I don't know what has happened since. The Western part of the world suddenly found out that Muslims actually believe in a random god called Allah other than judeo-christian "God". Since both cultures (judeo-christian and muslim) impose "one and only" God, thus one of them has to be...."not real". I wonder which one? Not hard to guess though.


I tend to think that these... mismatches... happen with the best intentions, most of the time (even if they may lead to further misunderstandings from Muslims). I think most westerners who insist on saying "Allah" rather than "God" nowadays are simply trying to be precise and culturally sensitive.

By the way, the Jewish God is also sometimes called by its Hebrew name in western literature. (Which, apparently, is blasphemous in orthodox Judaism! We just can't win. )


----------



## Miguel Antonio

Allah in Spanish and Portuguese is _Alá,_ and it is to be found in the words _ojalá/oxalá_ which derive from _insha'Allah_. After all, Arabic was the language of a large part of the Iberian peninsula for many centuries.

As to what Farsi speakers say, they also say _Khoda_, a cognate of the English word *God*, and I have seen old bilingual copies of Qur'an where under the Arabic Allah was written the Farsi _Khoda.

Khoda-hafez_ for now 

MA


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## lcfatima

I am a real live practicing Muslim, I pray and wear a scarf, and if you prick me, I will bleed. Red. Not green.---I have to say that I am disappointed by some of the prejudice that I am seeing in some of the posts here...maybe it is just because I am sooo hypersensitive because of my dreadful dogmatism and reactionary religion. *sigh* 

That said, as many of you have some formal training in linguistics, you should know that "marking" words by code-switching, using jargon, etc. serves a social function. Usually, it shows the speaker to be of the "in" group. So what is the group of English speaking Muslims who use Allah in place of God?

There have been several intertwined political movements of the last century that are repercusions of colonialism, post-colonial neo-imperialism from the mostly US driven capitalism/consumer culture (which has used both market as well as military expansion as a tool), and also the oil wealth, power, and influence of Saudi Arabia. All of these things boiling together allowed Salafism and some variations of Salafi thought to be spread around the world by Saudi proselytizers who spent a great deal of money attracting people who were broken by colonialism and stomped on by globalization to gain esteem and power by accepting the Salafi "pure" form of Islam, not the Islam tainted by indigenous culture, or by variant interpretations (Salafis disregard the idea of madhdhab or school or thought, for example...but madhaahab have always existed with differing yet legitimate interpretation). This movement started in a small corner of Saudi and spread around with the aid of oil wealth. Part of ideology of this movement is that all things non-Arab (but they really mean non-Saudi...or more specifically Saudi Hijazi) are bad, all things Saudi are good and truly Islamic. For example, Sudanese brightly colored female clothes, or Indo-Pak or Bangladeshi Muslim sarees, or bright Malay female garments, or Egyptian or Moroccan colored female clothes are bad and un-Islamic... the only true Islamic option according to the Salafis is black garments and they must include a black overcoat, possibly face-veil, etc. to conform to the Salafi interpretation---no other interpretation is legitimate, etc. For men, a beard is strongly necessary and blah blah blah. The Salafi movement is very obsessed with outward symbols of piety. They spent loads of money going around and selling this to people in many countries...Indonesia, Pakistan, India, the rest of the Arab world. For different reasons, certain populations in these countries were very receptive to these Saudi and Saudi-influenced Salafi missionaries---these Salafis even spent money in the USA; as in we will fund your community mosque if you run it in a Salafi way and promote Salafi practice. Anyhow, part of this movement was "Islamicizing" language...saying Allah instead of God or whatever word (Khuda for example) So Urdu speakers who usually said Khudahafiz...that means may God keep/protect you...but the word for God there is Persian origin, not Arabic, were supposed to say "Allahhafiz" instead. Stuff like that. There are books connected to this movement guiding people to use Arabic phrases for stuff like "God bless you" post sneezing (Allahyira7mak) when that was not done in the local language (like Malay or Urdu) and to say "Jazakallah Khair" for thank you instead of the native word...even for Arabs, people who accepted this movement say Jazakallah Khair instead of Shukran. All of this marks you as being pious, accepting this supposedly most pure form of Islam, etc. 

This Salafi movement has died down in many places, and of course taken bizarre and dangerous turns in other places...the Taliban's version of theology is directly related to Salafism, for example (and the US enouragement of this movement by funding and arming the Salafists to fight the Soviet invaders didn't help---everything is so connected---it is in things like this that capitalist so called globalization seriously helped spead Salafism). 

But even in places where Salafism was a fringe movement, it has left effects on the way religion is practiced and on the language. So, for example, even people who are not particularly religious may say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz in common parlance in Urdu. This would have been unheard of years ago. In English, people use some of these Arabic terms as well. Actually, we humorless Muslims have in-jokes about people who pretentiously show off by saying Jazakallah khair for thanks while speaking English...they are the Jazzies. 


Anyhow, saying Allah instead of God, it marks that a person either believes in this movement, or more likely has just been influenced by some of the Salafi ideologies, as they were hard to escape back in the day when the wave of Salafism was so strong. Islamically there is no reason to say Allah in place of Khoda or God or whatever. It is just a symbol, and people find empowerment and strengthen their identities by marking themselves with symbols, don't they? 

In English, I personally say God with non-Muslims, and may use Allah or God with Muslims. I myself and many others who are irritated by the pretentious Allah Hafiz, tend to use Khoda Hafiz in Urdu, just to make a point that Khuda, Rabb, Allah, God, or whatever, are all the same and the language used doesn't make a difference except on a socially constructed level.

Khudahafiz, 

Fatima

p.s. in reference to the couple of posts above, i just wanted to mention that yes Muslims believe that it is important to read the Quran in its original form in Arabic for purposes of recitation, which has its own intrinsic beauty. But for understanding, non-native Arabic speakers use any number of translations of the meanings, and also explanations of the points (tafseer). In addition, Arabic speakers read with tafseer as well because the language is Classical and not fully intelligible without guidance unless a person has specifically studied Quranic Arabic in school or something.


----------



## avok

Outsider said:


> Sorry, I misread that to mean that you were a Muslim. My mistake.


 
You misread again Outsider. "I am someone from a Muslim country" means "I do know the situation in a Muslim society so I can contribute to the thread". By the way, a Muslim country means a "country with Muslim traditions", otherwise Turkey does not have an official religion unlike many Christan countries.  

I just meant that religious interference is absent in my daily life. I keep my daily life separate from my spiritual life as I believe in "laïc" way of life in Turkey. So I don't consider myself part of a group which gives importance to read Qur'an in Arabic as you mentioned above. But if you are curious, I was born in a Muslim household. 



> tend to think that these... mismatches... happen with the best intentions, most of the time (even if they may lead to further misunderstandings from Muslims). I think most westerners who insist on saying "Allah" rather than "God" nowadays are simply trying to be precise and culturally sensitive.


 
Yes, that may be pretty well the issue. But again, that may also be culturally manipulative rather than sensitive.


----------



## Mate

*Moderator note:

May I kindly remind all posters to refer to the original question?

*


> _I've always wondered why many people in English (and perhaps other languages), both Muslim and non-Muslim, use Allah instead of God. Can someone explain why?_


Please, be concise and to the point. 
Avoid personal points of view. 
Whenever possible, back your comments with evidence.


Thanks for your understanding.

Mateamargo
CD moderator


----------



## palomnik

to get back to the original question as Mateamargo urges, I think Fatima's excellent posting explains the core situation pretty clearly. 

Muslims affected by Salafi beliefs are apt to use "Allah" for God regardless of what language they are speaking. I think that an earlier generation of Muslims, perhaps particularly in the earlier years of the twentieth century when most Muslim intellectuals having intercourse with the west were either from South Asia (the English influence) or the Maghrib (the French influence), were less apt to use "Allah" with non-Muslims, considering the use of the term "God" to be more edifying and illustrative of their beliefs. Nowadays, the use of "Allah" vs. "God" while writing in English is an indicator of how inclusive the writer wishes to be.

In a complimentary manner, the use of the term "God" by non-Muslims when referring to Islamic beliefs is inclusive, whereas non-Muslims who use "Allah" when talking about Muslim beliefs are probably trying to underline the difference between themselves and Muslims.

As for some other ancillary issues that have arisen in this discussion, such as the liturgical use of non-Arabic translations of the Qur'an, let me point out that, consciously or unconsciously, westerners in general and Christians particularly assume when they talk about "inspired scripture" that the words themselves are not inspired, but only the meaning. If you reflect on this it is not necessarily logical. 

There is also another school of thought that states that not all languages are fit for praying in, but that would indeed take us too far afield.


----------



## MarX

palomnik said:


> In a complimentary manner, the use of the term "God" by non-Muslims when referring to Islamic beliefs is inclusive, whereas non-Muslims who use "Allah" when talking about Muslim beliefs are probably trying to underline the difference between themselves and Muslims.


And the people who do that do not realize that in many countries, "Allah" is simply a word used to refer to the monotheistic God, used by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
In Indonesia alone there are forty million Christians who use "Allah" to denote God, not to mention non-Muslims from other places, like the Arabic countries.


----------



## Mahaodeh

I am a Muslim Arab and I am definitely not a Salafi and find that the Salafi view is exaggerated, but I must point out that the view of Salafism mentioned above is also largely exaggerated.  Many of them, but not all, prefer using Allah when speaking English and explain that by saying that it's best (but not a must) to use a name that God used in Quran rather than one in another language.  However, I can't say that I know the view in Afghanistan (or any other non-Arabic speaking Muslim group for that matter) but I would imagine that the reason would be that Khuda, since it's Persian, was probably used before Islam to refer to the Persian god, a non-Abrahamic god and hence not the same one as Allah regardless of it's actually linguistic meaning.

I also differ with the view that says that it is Muslims that are affected by Salifism that use Allah rather than God in English.  I currently live in Dubai where I see many people from different backgrounds and the majority does not speak Arabic.  From what I saw I found that the majority who use Allah among Muslims are non-Arabs, while Arabs tend to use God when speaking English.

From what I see, I am more apt to believe that it has more to do with "being in the in-group" than anything else.  Arabs in general use Allah extensively in the language and do not feel that they need to "become closer" to anyone by using Allah; a Pakistani, as an example, would automatically say Allah when speaking to me in English because he subconsciously wants to tell me that "I am one of your group even if I don't speak the language; I am not the other".

I have also noted (from my personal experience) that even Arabs living in the west tend to use Allah more than God, probably for the same reason: to feel that they are still Muslims despite living among a majority of non-Muslims, it's like a message to themselves "I did not forget, I am still part of the people back home".  The more religious the person, the more likely he uses Arabic terms when referring to things related to religion (such as saying: I'm going to Salaat now, rather than: I'm going to prayer now).

The explanations I hear are: a) Allah is what is used in the Quran, so I'll use it. B) God can be confused with god, but Allah can not be confused with Illah.  C) God is wrong even for Christians and Jews because it's not the name used in Bible or Torah (when I argue that "why don't you use Elohim instead they say "it's the same word as Allahum".

Personally, I may use Allah or God when speaking in English, depending on the preferrence of the one I'm speaking to.


----------



## Mahaodeh

_I'm putting this in another post because it's dealing with another part of the discussion. Moderators can combine them if they feel that would be best._

With regards to "who used the word Allah first, the Arab Christians and Jews or the Muslims"; I'd like to point out that whatever the language of the Bible, Torah, Jesus, Moses or Abraham was, most agree that they all spoke Semitic languages. Although I am neither a linguist or an expert in any related field but I did notice that the words used for God in Hebrew (El, Eloah, Elah), Syriac (El, Elih) and Aramaic (Elaw) are all quite similar to Allah (and Illah, from which it was derived). So, could it not have had a common root in proto-Semitic making the discussion of "who used it first" redundant since Allah is merely the Arabic form of the Hebrew or Aramaic one?


----------



## alexacohen

cherine said:


> It's very recent -at least for me- that I learnt that people (muslims and non-muslims) have this discussion about calling the Muslim's God Allah, as if to distinguish between Him and God (i.e. Christian God) which seemed very odd to me.


In Spain it is spelled Alá.
Spain was a Muslim kingdom for a long time. Granada was, let's say officially, Muslim for nearly eight hundred years, and many Muslim people continued practicing their religion even after Granada was officially Catholic. 
Muslims were not "foreigner invaders", but Spanish born and bred people.
So Alá stayed in the Spanish language, and many, many other words of Arabic origin. 
But Allah was never a "different" God. It is the same God, but a different language.

I've quoted Cherine because she is right.


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## MarX

cherine said:


> When I, Arabic speaking muslim, speak of God in Arabic I say Allah, Rabby (my God), Rabbena (our God). When I translate/speak French or English I write/say Dieu-God.
> It's very recent -at least for me- that I learnt that people (muslims and non-muslims) have this discussion about calling the Muslim's God Allah, as if to distinguish between Him and God (i.e. Christian God) which seemed very odd to me.


I also learnt about it after arriving in Germany. In Indonesia we simply say *Allah* for God, regardless of the religion (as long as it's monotheistic).





alexacohen said:


> In Spain it is spelled Alá.
> Spain was a Muslim kingdom for a long time. Granada was, let's say officially, Muslim for nearly eight hundred centuries, and many Muslim people continued practicing their religion even after Granada was officially Catholic.
> Muslims were not "foreigner invaders", but Spanish born and bred people.
> So Alá stayed in the Spanish language, and many, many other words of Arabic origin.
> But Allah was never a "different" God. It is the same God, but a different language.
> 
> I've quoted Cherine because she is right.


That's interesting. So *Alá* exists side by side with *Dio* and *Dios* in the Spanish language?

Btw, Granada was a Muslim kingdom only for nearly eight centuries. 

Groetjes,


MarX


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## alexacohen

MarX said:


> That's interesting. So *Alá* exists side by side with *Dio* and *Dios* in the Spanish language?
> 
> Btw, Granada was a Muslim kingdom only for nearly eight centuries.


First, thank you for pointing out that I was wrong. I really meant eight hundred years.

Dio means God in Italian , not Spanish.
But yes, Alá coexists with God. But not as different gods, one Muslim, one Christian, but as different ways to name the same God. One in Arabic, the other in Spanish.
And every Spaniard has, some time or other, said _insha'Allah: _ojalá, if God wishes/si Dios quiere.


> Originally posted by *Mahaodeh*
> Although I am neither a linguist or an expert in any related field but I did notice that the words used for God in Hebrew (El, Eloah, Elah), Syriac (El, Elih) and Aramaic (Elaw) are all quite similar to Allah (and Illah, from which it was derived). So, could it not have had a common root in proto-Semitic making the discussion of "who used it first" redundant since Allah is merely the Arabic form of the Hebrew or Aramaic one?


Yes, it is very possible. After all, Dios is simply how the Greek word for God has evolved in Spanish.


> Originally posted by *Outsider*
> By the way, the Jewish God is also sometimes called by its Hebrew name in western literature.


I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a Jewish God. There is only one God, and many ways to address him.
Shalom.


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## Montesacro

alexacohen said:


> Yes, it is very possible. After all, Dios is simply how the Greek word for God has evolved in Spanish.


 
Surely you meant “Dios is simply how the *Latin *word…”?
Anyway the two words (Latin _deus_ and Greek _theos)_ are obviously cognates…



alexacohen said:


> I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a Jewish God. There is only one God, and many ways to address him.


 
It is a matter of personal beliefs, of course: some believe there is only one God, some believe there are many Gods, some believe there’s no God at all, some are simply not interested in the issue of whether God exists or not…




Back to the original question (I will speak of Italian usage): I think Italians say Allah when referring to the Islamic God (as far as I know this has always been the case) just because Islam is culturally alien to the Country (no significant Muslim community up until twenty years ago).
Allah is perceived as some foreign, exotic deity (*Outsider* wrote in his post#64 that he thinks Muslims think Christians think so: in Italy it is essentially true).

Generally speaking there is no conscious intentional effort to stress the cultural differences between Christians and Muslims when uttering the word _Allah_; it just comes off obvious and natural.
In other words it is a perfectly neutral term; it doesn’t imply attitudes of any sort from the speaker.


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## alexacohen

Montesacro said:


> It is a matter of personal beliefs, of course: some believe there is only one God, some believe there are many Gods, some believe there’s no God at all, some are simply not interested in the issue of whether God exists or not…


That, of course, is true. But it is not the thead topic.


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## Montesacro

alexacohen said:


> Hoping not to get very much off-topic, what I meant is: Theos => Deus => Dios.


 
If you mean that Deus comes from Theos I'm afraid you are wrong (just like Dio is not derived from Dios or viceversa).


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## MarX

alexacohen said:


> Dio means God in Italian 0, not Spanish.
> But yes, Alá coexists with God. But not as different gods, one Muslim, one Christian, but as different ways to name the same God. One in Arabic, the other in Spanish.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, at least on Old Spanish, *Dio* is the word for God. Ladino still retains this word.



alexacohen said:


> And every Spaniard has, some time or other, said _insha'Allah: _ojalá, if God wishes/si Dios quiere.


 It never came into my mind that _ojalá _might be related to _insya'Allah_.
Indeed there was a shift from *X* (_sh_ sound) to *J* (_kh_ sound) in Spanish.
So it probably used to be _oxalá_, eh?


I'm trying not to get off topic here.

Salam,


MarX


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## alexacohen

MarX said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, at least on Old Spanish, *Dio* is the word for God. Ladino still retains this word.
> It never came into my mind that _ojalá _might be related to _insya'Allah_.
> Indeed there was a shift from *X* (_sh_ sound) to *J* (_kh_ sound) in Spanish.
> So it probably used to be _oxalá_, eh?
> I'm trying not to get off topic here.
> Salam,
> MarX


I don't remember having ever read Dio in Old Spanish, not even in old jarchas or cantigas, but it was used in Ladino.

You're right, it used to be Ox Allah.

So do I.

Shalom,

Alexa


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## palomnik

It still is _oxalá _in Portuguese.


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## modus.irrealis

Montesacro said:


> Anyway the two words (Latin _deus_ and Greek _theos)_ are obviously cognates…


Despite their similarities, these two surprisingly aren't cognate, since there's no regular correspondence between Latin d and Greek th.


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## Miguel Antonio

palomnik said:


> It still is _oxalá _in Portuguese.


Yes, I said as much some twenty posts back in this thread . I wonder whether the Spanish words _¡hala! ¡hale! _and even _olé_ may not have issued from the name of God in Arabic. Afer all, if you were to replace them by "God!" or "oh my God" the meaning would not change much, would it?

And, the time-old Spanish expression _hasta mañana, si Dios quiere_, is in Qur'an, I apologise for not remembering exactly in which chapter or verse, but it goes along the lines of "whenever you say that you intend to do something tomorrow, remember to add the words *if God wills*"

_Hasta pronto, si Dios quiere

_MA


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## palomnik

Miguel Antonio said:


> I wonder whether the Spanish words _¡hala! ¡hale! _and even _olé_ may not have issued from the name of God in Arabic.MA


 
I believe that _olé _does come from _allah. _

The word is debased in the eyes of a lot of non-Spanish speakers, who think it means something like "whoopie", but it really is a very serious word, almost a prayer.  It's associated pretty closely with Flamenco - which is another point of interest, since there is a lively thread elsewhere on this site about whether Flamenco has an Arabic origin.


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## MarX

Miguel Antonio said:


> Yes, I said as much some twenty posts back in this thread . I wonder whether the Spanish words _¡hala! ¡hale! _and even _olé_ may not have issued from the name of God in Arabic. Afer all, if you were to replace them by "God!" or "oh my God" the meaning would not change much, would it?





palomnik said:


> I believe that _olé _does come from _allah._


Reminded me of the word _yalla!_
I'm not sure where it comes from, but it's sometimes used to say something like "Come on!"
There is also _walla!_ which means more or less like "I swear!" or "Really!"

Are those related to *Allah*?


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## Miguel Antonio

MarX said:


> Reminded me of the word _yalla!_
> I'm not sure where it comes from, but it's sometimes used to say something like "Come on!"
> There is also _walla!_ which means more or less like "I swear!" or "Really!"
> 
> Are those related to *Allah*?


_Ya Allah: _Oh, God! _Wa Allah: _and God. My knowledge of Arabic is very, very limited though.


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## Mahaodeh

Miguel Antonio said:


> _Ya Allah: _Oh, God! _Wa Allah: _and God. My knowledge of Arabic is very, very limited though.


 
WaAllah is better translated to "by God", an oath. Mostly used to sort of "extra confirm" something.

Yalla in colloquial Arabic means "come on" in most if not all dialects. It's probably a contraction of something but I'm not sure what, maybe "ya Allah", which literal means "O God" and is a sort of a prayer to God for help. The MSA and Classical way to say come on in Arabic is Hayya.


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## Miguel Antonio

Mahaodeh said:


> WaAllah is better translated to "by God", an oath. Mostly used to sort of "extra confirm" something.
> 
> Yalla in colloquial Arabic means "come on" in most if not all dialects. It's probably a contraction of something but I'm not sure what, maybe "ya Allah", which literal means "O God" and is a sort of a prayer to God for help. The MSA and Classical way to say come on in Arabic is Hayya.


 Thank you for the correction. _Shukran_


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## בעל-חלומות

In Hebrew we don't usually use Allah, but we do use various form of it like inshalla, ya'alla, yalla, walla, and la'alla a lot.

The meanings probably correspond to (copied from...) the Arabic ones, but in case they don't:
אינשאללה - hopefully.
יא אללה - said when you are excited or angry.
יאללה - said when you want someone or something to move faster.
וואלה - can mean many things, from "really?" to "wow" depending on ton of voice.
לאללה - very much.


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## cherine

Many of the last posts in this thread didn't address the topic, which in itself doesn't fit in the forum anymore. So, we have to close it now. And we thank you all for the interesting contributions.


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