# Persian/Spanish: vale/bale



## Thitherflit

Hi All--

I'm new here, but it looks like a very interesting site  

I recently realized that Spanish speakers from Spain say "Vale, vale..." to mean something like, "Ok, alright already, I got it..." This was a surprise to me because I have long known that speakers of Persian (Farsi) say "Bale, bale" with the very same meaning.

My Irani friends, who also claim to be pretty good at classical Persian, say "bale" is a very old (over 1,000 years or so?) Persian word with this meaning/use. They also say that they do not believe there is an Arabic cognate for this word.

Friends from the Philippines, speakers of Tagalog, say that they also say "vale, vale," though, of course, this would probably be a direct influence from Spanish.

So, my questions: Are these true cognates? False? Is there any historical reason to explain this apparent connection? Do Spanish etymological dictionaries distinguish among the various Spanish /vale/ words?

Many thanks!


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## babep

As far as I know, "vale" in Spanish derives from the verb "valer" and it is used in the sense of "ya me vale".  Extremely literally,  "it's enough for me".  
Does "bale" mean anything like this? Does also come from a verb?


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## Thitherflit

Hi Babep, 

Thanks for the shockingly fast reply!  

I can see that this forum will be able to help me, if in no other way, by suggesting other avenues, other questions, to pursue.  A wonderful resource!

I will start checking into more details of the Persian etymology!


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## Bienvenidos

Well you came to the right place: you've found a Persian-speaking Spanish speaker! 

What I can tell you is that even though "bale" is an old word, it is very much in use in Afghanistan today. And your use of it is right on the money. "Bale" is said when answering the phone, similar to the Spanish "bueno." When someone is calling you, for example, "bale" is used just like "vale:"

Mary: Robert, come here!
Robert: Okay!

María: Roberto, ¡ven aquí!
Roberto: ¡Vale!

Mariaah: Robert, íja byah!
Roburr: ¡Bale! 

In Spanish, the first syllable is stressed as it is in Persian. They sound EXACTLY THE SAME when spoken, for the most part.

Fun little coincidence, isn't it? Whether it has any linguistic background, I doubt it. It's just a very interesting similarity. Although, several Spanish words come from Persian, so the languages did have some sort of an influence on each other. Although there is a lot of French in Persian vice versa.

I'm glad to be of help.  Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## LupisRex

I might also add that valere is Latin for "to be strong" and vale is the command form, telling someone to be strong. "Vale" was used to bid farewell. I can't find a connection between the Latin and the Spanish, but Spanish was derived from Latin.


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## Frank06

Hi

Spanish _vale_ already has been discussed.
The Latin word comes from PIE *walǝ-/-e-.
According to my (rather small) Persian Dictionary, _bale(h) (_بله_) _comes from Arabic _bali_ (_بلی_).


Groetjes,

Frank


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## arsham

This is a coincidence. As mentioned by Frank, the Persian word is a loanword from Quranic Arabic (which may explain why it's not used in MSA).


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## cherine

Frank06 said:


> According to my (rather small) Persian Dictionary, _bale(h) (_بله_) _comes from Arabic _bali_ (_بلی_).


Frank, does your dictionary give the transliteration "bali" or is this your reading of the word?  I ask because I only know "balá" and it means "yes" as used to answer a negative question (like: don't you like linguistics? *Yes*, I do).



arsham said:


> the Persian word is a loanword from Quranic Arabic (which may explain why it's not used in MSA).


But it is used in MSA. In the way I put above.


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## Frank06

Hi,


cherine said:


> Frank, does your dictionary give the transliteration "bali" or is this your reading of the word?  I ask because I only know "balá" and it means "yes" as used to answer a negative question (like: don't you like linguistics? *Yes*, I do).


For what it's worth, the dictionary gives بلی. (It's a Persian Persian dictionary, hence in the Perso-Arabic script).
(Wild wild guess*: I noticed that sometimes, for example in names, ی ئ is pronounced as /a/, as in هدئ Hoda. No idea where this comes from**, but could it be a similar case???).

Groetjes,

Frank

* I hardly know Persian, I don't know Arabic
** I'd love a new thread about that


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## cherine

I don't want to go off-topic, but I think a correction here is necessary. The word بلى in Arabic is definitely "balá". I put an accent on the second "a" to mark the longer vowel.
In Arabic, the final ى can either be an "a" or an "i". But this is certainly not a topic for this thread, nor this forum.


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## n3ol3oy

Hello all, 

This is an interesting issue that I faced myself when I moved to Barcelona. Here's what I think about it:

"Vale" comes from the verb "valer" meaning "to be worth". E.g. "Vale la pena" means "It's worth the pain". So, basically, it means "OK". On the other hand, "bale" in Persian doesn't mean "OK", but it means "yes". This is a huge difference. Spanish "vale" means Persian "bâshe". Spanish "sí" means Persian Note the following examples:

English:
- Do you like pizza?
- Yes!

Spanish:
- ¿Te gusta pizza?
- ¡Sí!

Persian: 
- Pizza dust dari?
- Bale!

"Bale" is originally Arabic (bali) and in Persian it's used in a formal context mostly. Or when you're talking to someone older than you, specially if you're a kid. It's highly common that parents make kids used the formal "bale" instead of the informal "âre" when they're talking to grown ups. 

Someone mentioned in previous comments that when Iranians answer the phone they say "bale". It's true. It's like in English "yes" or in Spanish "sí". I don't know why he/she said "bueno" in Spanish. Maybe it's something I don't know, but as far as I know "bueno" means "good" and as a filler it means "well" as in the following example:

English:
- Well, we must go.

Spanish:
- Bueno, tenemos que irnos. 

Persian:
- Xob, bâyad berim. 

Last but not least, let's talk phonology. Though vale and bale sound exactly the same, I believe they're not the same technically, but they're a minimal pair. Yes, Spanish speakers pronounce labio-dental v almost the same as bi-labial b. But I said almost. It might not sound very scientific, but "v" in Spanish is only 95% bi-labial whereas "b" is 100% bi-labial. You see what I mean? Please someone back me up on this. 

In conclusion, vale means OK and bale means yes and they sound very very similar. 

Cheers to all, 
Morteza


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## jmx

n3ol3oy said:


> "Vale" comes from the verb "valer" meaning "to be worth".


Or "to be fit/good for something".





> I don't know why he/she said "bueno" in Spanish.


There are a lot of regional differences for the word you use in Spanish to answer the phone. I guess "bueno" is used somewhere, though not in Spain.





> Yes, Spanish speakers pronounce labio-dental v almost the same as bi-labial b. But I said almost.


Not almost the same but exactly the same. They represent the same phoneme that has 2 major allophones, one stop and one approximant, *regardless* of the letter used to write it.


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## n3ol3oy

jmx said:


> Not almost the same but exactly the same. They represent the same phoneme that has 2 major allophones, one stop and one approximant, *regardless* of the letter used to write it.


Thanks for the correction.


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## eskandar

jmx said:


> Or "to be fit/good for something".There are a lot of regional differences for the word you use in Spanish to answer the phone. I guess "bueno" is used somewhere, though not in Spain.


It's used in Mexico.


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## nabazar

When I went to Spain, I realized that some of the vocabulary is very similar to Farsi. For example "Bale". some of them is as below:

English: It is a book.
Spanish: Esto es un libro
Farsi: In yek ketab ast.

English: This book is for you
Spanish:Este libro es para ti
Farsi: In ketab baray to ast.

English: This book is not for you
Spanish: Este libro no es para ti
Farsi: In ketab baray to nist.

English.:  one \ two\ three\ four   \ five  \ six  \ seven\ eight\ nine  \ ten \ hundred
Spanish: uno \ dos \ tres  \ cuatro\ cinco\ seis \ siete \ ocho \nueve\ diez\ cien
Farsi.....: yek\ do  \ se     \ chahar\ panj \shesh\ haft \ hasht\ noh  \ dah\ sad


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## berndf

*Moderator note: Farsi is related to European languages and there are similarities. But this thread is only concerned with the words named in the title. We cannot explore different similarities here.*


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## CyrusSH

There should be a rule in this forum about using the correct names of languages, it is *Persian*, not Farsi (its Arabic name).


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## berndf

CyrusSH said:


> There should be a rule in this forum about using the correct names of languages, it is *Persian*, not Farsi (its Arabic name).


Both are recognised names in English for modern Persian language(s) and are used interchangeably. I am afraid you'll have to live with that.


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## Ihsiin

cherine said:


> Frank, does your dictionary give the transliteration "bali" or is this your reading of the word?  I ask because I only know "balá" and it means "yes" as used to answer a negative question (like: don't you like linguistics? *Yes*, I do).



I have a question which is somewhat related. In modern Iraqi Arabic we have the word بلي _bali _which means 'Yes' or 'Of course' (not necessarily responding to a negative statement). I had always assumed this was just derived from بلى _balā_, but having read this thread I'm not so sure. Do we think that:

a) Iraqi بلي is a purely Arabic word, related or unrelated to بلى, and from which Persian _bale _derives; or
b) Iraqi بلي is imported from Persian _bale _which in turn comes from Arabic بلى? If this is the case, is it common/likely for Arabic _-ā _to go to Persian _-e_?

All insights into this would be most welcome.


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## CyrusSH

The Arabic word for "yes" is _naʿam_, Persian _baleh_ (_beleh_) relates to bel which means "let" (the imperative mood of the verb "to let"), its synonym is _basheh_ which relates to _bash_, the imperative mood of the verb "to be". Both of them mean "Ok" and they are used for approval.

_bal_:

بل تا کف پای تو ببوسم
انگار که مهر لالکایم

_bash_:

باش تا صبح دولتت بدمد 
کاین هنوز از نتایج سحر است


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