# Tan sola estabas alma mia



## Explicit_Mami

Hola a todos

The line I've put in a title is from this short poem which goes something like this..

"No vives ya de sinarazones, Tan sola estabas alma mia?"
"You don't live in injustice, just live in my soul?"

What do you think of my translation?


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## Bestsy62

Hello Mami;
As i know a "sinrazon/es" is something as nonsense or nonreason Sin Razón, something that has not a reason for to be but it is, as love by example, so i don't see that injustice would fit.
"tan sóla estabas alma mia" in a lyric context may be that HIS soul was so alone, but also that he was using "alma mia" as name for his loved one, so i don't see the sense also....
Sorry but my english is not enough good for to give you a better translation, but may be with the sense you can find the right words 
greetings


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## alexacohen

"Alma mía" can be both "my own soul", and a term of endearment, like  "my darling" or "my love".
So I'm afraid I can't help you much.
Sorry
Alexa


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> Hello Mami;
> As i know a "sinrazon/es" is something as nonsense or nonreason Sin Razón, something that has not a reason for to be but it is, as love by example, so i don't see that injustice would fit.
> "tan sóla estabas alma mia" in a lyric context may be that HIS soul was so alone, but also that he was using "alma mia" as name for his loved one, so i don't see the sense also....
> Sorry but my english is not enough good for to give you a better translation, but may be with the sense you can find the right words
> greetings


 
Thank you but I still don't get it.  

well, at least now I know he didn't literally mean "my soul" when he said "alma mia" and sinarazones means unreasonable. 

so what do you think he was trying to say in the poem?

how about this " You don't live unreasonbly.. Is it only me (who does so), my love?"


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## Bestsy62

Hola;
"No vives ya de sinarazones(sinrazones), Tan sola estabas alma mia?"
Well, for me he's saying her something as;
you're living yet in not reasonable things, about feeling or fears or so... (aghhh my english is sooo bad....), and then asking her, were you feeling so alone "my soul" as her name....
I hope you have the idea now...
By the way, which is the book?


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## Explicit_Mami

How about this

"No vives ya de sinarazones" -> "You don't live unreasonably"
"Tan sola estabas alma mia?" -> "You are just being my baby, right?"

Heh


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> Hola;
> "No vives ya de sinarazones(sinrazones), Tan sola estabas alma mia?"
> Well, for me he's saying her something as;
> you're living yet in not reasonable things, about feeling or fears or so... (aghhh my english is sooo bad....), and then asking her, were you feeling so alone "my soul" as her name....
> I hope you have the idea now...
> By the way, which is the book?


 

 I don't get it. I'm so so so sorry. So he's saying that the girl is not living unreasonably, (she's living reasonably).. and also wondering if she's been feeling kind of lonely?


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## Explicit_Mami

hahah I think I got it.

No vives ya de sinarazones -> you don't live unreasonably now.
Tan sola estabas alma mia -> are you that lonely, my love?


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## Bestsy62

No Mamy, she's living unreasonabily, and he's saying something as, 
don't do this, don't worry, don't live so (now that i'm back or here, depends in were they are in the complete poem)
And it's an imperative sentence;
Don't live (ya/yet?) unreasonabily on in the unreasonability, were you so alone "my soul"?
Lets see now...


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## Argónida

My English is awful, but I'll try to explain...

"No vives ya de sin razones": You don't live of (_follies?) _any more.

"¿Tan sola estabas alma mía"?: Were you so lonely, my love?"

Hope it helps.


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## Bestsy62

Ya.... is not in the sense of already, more in the sense of now, this is a text in old spanish, may be from the S.XVII or even older, the expressions are different, and more in a poem....
and pleame, let me know which is the book


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> No Mamy, she's living unreasonabily, and he's saying something as,
> don't do this, don't worry, don't live so (now that i'm back or here, depends in were they are in the complete poem)
> And it's an imperative sentence;
> Don't live (ya/yet?) unreasonabily on in the unreasonability, were you so alone "my soul"?
> Lets see now...


 
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I got cha

No vives ya de sinarazones -> You are just living unreasonably now..
Tan sola estabas alma mia -> Were you feeling that lonely, my soul(my dear my love blah blah )

So It's like the girl is leading a destructive life and the guy understands as to why she's being such a spoiled brat (because the girl was alone and lonely for the longest time) and tries to soothe her unreasonable behavior in a way. am I correcta?


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> Ya.... is not in the sense of already, more in the sense of now, this is a text in old spanish, may be from the S.XVII or even older, the expressions are different, and more in a poem....
> and pleame, let me know which is the book


 
I don't know which book it is, the poem came from. I sort of picked it up from a friend of mine.


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## Argónida

Bestsy62 said:


> No Mamy, she's living unreasonabily, and he's saying something as,
> don't do this, don't worry, don't live so (now that i'm back or here, depends in were they are in the complete poem)
> And it's an imperative sentence;
> Don't live (ya/yet?) unreasonabily on in the unreasonability, were you so alone "my soul"?
> Lets see now...


 
Betsy, la frase no va en imperativo (que vamos a liar más a esta pobre...), sino diría: "No vivas ya...", y lo que dice es "No vives ya..." (es presente de indicativo).


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## Bestsy62

Pardon Snifff...
no es imperativa en la construccion, pero en el sentido la he visto asi, pero parece que ya ha cogido el sentido....and that's good


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## Faethin

Let me help you out, though I must say that the word _sinrazones_ is one I'd never heard of. It, of course, means "something pointless", but it's actually not in the RAE dictionary, so its meaning must be given in some context you didn't mention. 

But, as far as I can see, the free translation for:

_No vives ya de sinrazones, ¿tan sola estabas alma mía?_

Would be something like:

_You do not live carefreely anymore, were you that lonely, my darling/soul of mine?_

I do believe that's the translation of the verse, though I concur that the meaning of _alma mía_ is quite ambiguous.

As for your proposition, I don't think that's the idea at all. Although

_You don't live unreasonably_

would be a way of putting it, the word "unreasonably" would be much better translated as _irracionalmente,_ and I think, by the "message" I perceive from the verse, that _vivir de sinrazones_ means "to live of things that don't necessarily have a point", in a good sense, of course.

Sorry I can't be a little more specific about the verse, but I find difficult, even though I love Spanish, to talk about poetry. I think that doing so correctly is a thing you're born with. Or not.


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## Bestsy62

Explicit_Mami said:


> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I got cha
> 
> No vives ya de sinarazones -> You are just living unreasonably now..
> Tan sola estabas alma mia -> Were you feeling that lonely, my soul(my dear my love blah blah )
> 
> So It's like the girl is leading a destructive life and the guy understands as to why she's being such a spoiled brat (because the girl was alone and lonely for the longest time) and tries to soothe her unreasonable behavior in a way. am I correcta?


Yep  now you got at least the sense )


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## Explicit_Mami

yeah. so am I right or am I right.

hahahah


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## Explicit_Mami

Faethin said:


> Let me help you out, though I must say that the word _sinrazones_ is one I'd never heard of. It, of course, means "something pointless", but it's actually not in the RAE dictionary, so its meaning must be given in some context you didn't mention.
> 
> But, as far as I can see, the free translation for:
> 
> _No vives ya de sinrazones, ¿tan sola estabas alma mía?_
> 
> Would be something like:
> 
> _You do not live carefreely anymore, were you that lonely, my darling/soul of mine?_
> 
> I do believe that's the translation of the verse, though I concur that the meaning of _alma mía_ is quite ambiguous.
> 
> As for your proposition, I don't think that's the idea at all. Although
> 
> _You don't live unreasonably_
> 
> would be a way of putting it, the word "unreasonably" would be much better translated as _irracionalmente,_ and I think, by the "message" I perceive from the verse, that _vivir de sinrazones_ means "to live of things that don't necessarily have a point", in a good sense, of course.
> 
> Sorry I can't be a little more specific about the verse, but I find difficult, even though I love Spanish, to talk about poetry. I think that doing so correctly is a thing you're born with. Or not.


 

Yes. Yes. Yes. I think I've just had a mild orgasm. Hahaha I think I can finally go ahead and get a nap now. 

Thanks.


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## Faethin

Betsy, decís que ya entendió, pero francamente del imperativo al indicativo hay un abismo de diferencia, sobre todo si estás hablando de poesía y _sobre todo_ si la pobre no es de habla hispana.


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## Bestsy62

Faethin said:


> Let me help you out, though I must say that the word _sinrazones_ is one I'd never heard of. It, of course, means "something pointless", but it's actually not in the RAE dictionary, so its meaning must be given in some context you didn't mention.


 
Hola,
Sinrazón/es se utiliza habitualmente en español de españa, aunque es una palabra un poco arcaica, puede ser la razón por la que no parece en el RAE.
Una sinrazón es una cosa que no tiene una razon lógica, es decir, algo SIN-RAZON de ser....
Greetings


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## Argónida

Explicit_Mami said:


> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I got cha
> 
> No vives ya de sinarazones -> You are just living unreasonably now..


 
But no,

"No vives ya de sinrazones" is "You aren't living unreasonably any more", just the opposite...


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> Yep  now you got at least the sense )


 
Ha bueno, thats something! Anywhos, Thanks a lot for taking time out of your life to help me out with this little poetry of mine which I probably shouldn't have just "picked up" from a friend. God, Look how much effort and time it took for me to just get a sense of that poetry. Wouldn't have been able to do so if it wasn't for your help. Muchas gracias, again. I really mean it.


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## Bestsy62

Faethin said:


> Betsy, decís que ya entendió, pero francamente del imperativo al indicativo hay un abismo de diferencia, sobre todo si estás hablando de poesía y _sobre todo_ si la pobre no es de habla hispana.


Que vaaaale...que ya he pedido perdón, pero para mi la frase tiene un sentido imperativo aunque este redactada en indicativo....licencias poéticas?


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## Bestsy62

Thanks to you Mamy for to introduce an interesting topic ;-)


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## Explicit_Mami

Argónida said:


> But no,
> 
> "No vives ya de sinrazones" is "You aren't living unreasonably any more", just the opposite...


 

So basically, It's like the girl stopped being an unreasonble brat and got her acts together because she was lonely. Am I right or am I right?


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## Argónida

Explicit_Mami said:


> So basically, It's like the girl stopped being an unreasonble brat and got her acts together because she was lonely. Am I right or am I right?


 
Yes! In my opinion, now you are right.


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## Explicit_Mami

Bestsy62 said:


> Thanks to you Mamy for to introduce an interesting topic ;-)


 
Since English is the language you want to learn... Heh, you can't use For and To at the same time, darling. 

Correction : Thanks to you, Mami for Introducing an interesting topic. 

For +verb+ing


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## Explicit_Mami

Argónida said:


> Yes! In my opinion, now you are right.


 
ohhhhhhhhhhh so the guy was teasing the girl in a way, eh?


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## Bestsy62

Mami, thanks, for the corrections, i need them


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## alexacohen

Bestsy62 said:


> Ya.... is not in the sense of already, more in the sense of now, this is a text in old spanish, may be from the S.XVII or even older, the expressions are different, and more in a poem....
> and pleame, let me know which is the book


Bestsy:
José Hierro was born in 1922.
This poem is not definitely written in XVIIth century Spanish, or even older.
A foreign student may assume that what you are saying is true, and this can mislead him or her. If you are not 100 % sure, just say so.
There's nothing wrong with being wrong. After all, we are all students. 
Mistakes are allowed for everyone!
See you
Alexa


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## alexacohen

Explicit_Mami said:


> OH MY GOD!
> 
> Thank you so much. There's no words to describe my gratitude for you.


You're welcome, anytime
Alexa


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## Explicit_Mami

alexacohen said:


> You're welcome, anytime
> Alexa


 
"El alba nueva no traía,
para acunarte, sus canciones."

I looked for an English word for acunar and learnt that acunar is mint in English. which brought me a question, how does "para acunarte, sus canciones" mean "songs that would comfort you..?" Isn't it more like 
"for you to produce(make) songs"?


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## Kibramoa

Cuna = cradle (baby bed)  Acunar it is actually to cradle.
The dawn did not bring you songs to cradle you. 
(aka hold you in the arms, thus comfort you) Poetic license.

Hats off for Alexa for the excellent job of translating the poem.


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## Filis Cañí

I don't mean to spoil your micro-orgasm, Expilicit Mami, but this is a lyrical poem in which the poet is talking to himself.

Acunar: to rock a baby in his crib or in your arms. (Not acuñar: to mint.)

You have lost your idealism.
Where you, my soul, so lonely?


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## Explicit_Mami

Filis Cañí said:


> I don't mean to spoil your micro-orgasm, Expilicit Mami, but this is a lyrical poem in which the poet is talking to himself.
> 
> Acunar: to rock a baby in his crib or in your arms. (Not acuñar: to mint.)
> 
> You have lost your idealism.
> Where you, my soul, so lonely?


 
oh I see. haha, don't worry. my micro-orgasm ran away a long ago.
thanks for everything. :/ haha


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## Explicit_Mami

Kibramoa said:


> Cuna = cradle (baby bed) Acunar it is actually to cradle.
> The dawn did not bring you songs to cradle you.
> (aka hold you in the arms, thus comfort you) Poetic license.
> 
> Hats off for Alexa for the excellent job of translating the poem.


 
Yeah, She did a great job. 
thanks.


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## NoRealName

Just registered to wordreference.com to post my comment! 
Jose Hierro is an excellent poet. This poem has actually brought tears to my eyes. The words of the poet are not easily translated into English. Alexas' translation is very very good. But I think that "alma mia" refers precisely to that: His soul.


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## alexacohen

NoRealName said:


> Just registered to wordreference.com to post my comment!
> Jose Hierro is an excellent poet. This poem has actually brought tears to my eyes. The words of the poet are not easily translated into English. Alexas' translation is very very good. But I think that "alma mia" refers precisely to that: His soul.


Hello all:
I said in my first response to Mami that "alma mía" could be either translated as "my soul" or as "my love".
I chose "my beloved". This is my own free version of the poem.
Poems can be read and understood in very different ways; because the meaning of a poem is always subjective.
My translation is not perfect, of course. It's just what the poem means to me.
And for me, "alma mía" means "my beloved".
Those who don't agree are welcome to give their own translation.
Mami will have then, other people's point of view. 
Alexa


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## cuchuflete

> II. WRF promueve el aprendizaje y mantiene una atmósfera académica de seriedad y *colaboración, en tono positivo y cordial.*


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## Berenguer

Bestsy62 said:


> Hola,
> Sinrazón/es se utiliza habitualmente en español de españa, aunque es una palabra un poco arcaica, puede ser la razón por la que no parece en el RAE.
> Una sinrazón es una cosa que no tiene una razon lógica, es decir, algo SIN-RAZON de ser....
> Greetings



Bueno. No sé cómo buscaste, pero, dos cosas. Primera, sinrazón no es un término arcaico ni mucho menos. Y segunda, sí que aparece en la RAE (como por otra parte cabría esperar). Definición:
*sinrazón**.*
* 1.     * f. Acción hecha contra justicia y fuera de lo razonable o debido.




Explicit_Mami said:


> "El alba nueva no traía,
> para acunarte, sus canciones."
> 
> I looked for an English word for acunar and learnt that acunar is mint in English. which brought me a question, how does "para acunarte, sus canciones" mean "songs that would comfort you..?" Isn't it more like
> "for you to produce(make) songs"?


As it has been said, acunar means to rock, that is, hold a child in (frequently) mother's arms, to try the baby feeling asleep. Literally the translation could be (my english maybe is not good enough):

The new dawn didn't bring / songs to rock you



Filis Cañí said:


> I don't mean to spoil your micro-orgasm, Expilicit Mami, but this is a lyrical poem in which the poet is talking to himself.
> 
> Acunar: to rock a baby in his crib or in your arms. (Not acuñar: to mint.)
> 
> You have lost your idealism.
> Where you, my soul, so lonely?



Are the two last lines your translation to the two ones given by Mami? Maybe in the whole poem it makes some sense...because isolated it's a little bit strage. (Is it an interpretation in the way of the meaning of Aute's song "al alba"?)


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## Filis Cañí

No era una traducción, sino una glosa en inglés.


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## Berenguer

Filis Cañí said:


> No era una traducción, sino un glosa en inglés.


Corrijo lo que dije, y cambio "traducción" por "interpretación", y repito la pregunta ¿de verdad que viene a significar eso?


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## Filis Cañí

Berenguer said:


> Corrijo lo que dije, y cambio "traducción" por "interpretación", y repito la pregunta ¿de verdad que viene a significar eso?


 
Eso viene a significar, sí.


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## Berenguer

Filis Cañí said:


> Eso viene a significar, sí.



Bueno, me parece un poco tajante afirmar que eso es lo que significa (viene a significar) Supongo que eso es una interpretación subjetiva de la intención última del autor. Yo lo interpreto, subjetivamente, mas como "memories" que como "idealism", que no le encuentro, todo dicho sea de paso, la lógica por ninguna parte.

En cualquier caso, creo que esa explicación subjetiva no ayuda, sino que más bien distrae, del sentido último de este hilo del foro, como es la traducción, no interpretación, de dos versos de un poema.


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## pedroRK1

Creo que nadie aun ha capturado el sentido de la frase "no vives ya de sinrazones". No significa tan solo vivir poco razonablemente. Sino vivir *gracias a* las cosas poco razonables.


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## Berenguer

pedroRK1 said:


> Creo que nadie aun ha capturado el sentido de la frase "no vives ya de sinrazones". No significa tan solo vivir poco razonablemente. Sino vivir *gracias a* las cosas poco razonables.



Efectivamente pedro, coincido contigo en que esa sería la explicación correcta de "no vives ya de sinrazones", es decir "no vives ya gracias a las sinrazones".


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## Martya

HI, 
First of all, sorry for my horrible English, but I´m going to try to give some poetic sense to this:
1No vives ya de sinrazones, 
2tan sola estabas alma mía?
1 Now you´re not in love (because love can be a nonreason)
2 were you so alone to this disaffection?

Por probar que no quede!


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