# FR: If I were going to



## beaujohn

Est-il correct que c'est impossible dire en français "If I were going to be", en tel pharse comme "If I were going to be late tomorrow . .", et qu'on ne peut que dire "If I were late tomorrow" = "Si j'étais en retard demain"?

~ beau


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## eglantine_

the translation to if i was going to be late would be si je suis en retard ... 
"si j'étais en retard " is correct but you don't use it frequently in french


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## tilt

What's the difference between _If I were going to be late tomorrow..._ and _If I were late tomorrow..._, Beaujohn ?
I never came accross the former form. 



eglantine_ said:


> the translation to if i was going to be late would be si je suis en retard ...
> "si j'étais en retard " is correct but you don't use it frequently in french


As far as I can say, both a are common.
It just depends on the mood used in the second part of the sentence:
_- Si je suis en retard demain, m'attendras-tu ?
- Si j'étais en retard demain, __m'attendrais-tu __?_


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## beaujohn

"If I were to" is a common phrase in English.
~ beau


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## geostan

tilt said:


> What's the difference between _If I were going to be late tomorrow..._ and _If I were late tomorrow..._, Beaujohn ?
> I never came accross the former form.



There is a difference. _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ could be used if the speaker knows or suspects that he will be late, and wants to inform his listener, e.g.

_If I were going to be late tomorrow, I would let you know._

The same difference could be shown in French, no?


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## itka

I think it could translate :
"If I were going to be late tomorrow " = _Si (jamais) je devais être en retard demain..._
"If I were late tomorrow" = _si (jamais) j'étais en retard, demain..._


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## tilt

Many thanks for your answers, Beaujohn and Geostan.
But I've got another question! 

As I said, I never came across _If I were going to be late..._, but I already read sentences like _If I were to be late..._
Is there any difference between this and _If I were going to be late..._ and/or _If I were late..._?


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## geostan

tilt said:


> Many thanks for your answers, Beaujohn and Geostan.
> But I've got another question!
> 
> As I said, I never came across _If I were going to be late..._, but I already read sentences like _If I were to be late..._
> Is there any difference between this and _If I were going to be late..._ and/or _If I were late..._?



Don't Itka's translations suggest a difference to you?


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## Avalar

tilt said:


> Many thanks for your answers, Beaujohn and Geostan.
> But I've got another question!
> 
> As I said, I never came across _If I were going to be late..._, but I already read sentences like _If I were to be late..._
> Is there any difference between this and _If I were going to be late..._ and/or _If I were late..._?


 
They can be identical in meaning.

_If I were late_
_= If I were to be late_
_= If I were going to be late_

Though I think 'If I were going to be late' makes it sound least likely that the speaker will be late.

Also, you could say:

_If I were going to be late, I would ring you._
_If I were to be late, I would ring you._

In the first sentence, unlike the second, the speaker would definitely ring *before* they were late. In the second sentence, the sense of future is not there, and the person might only ring when they were already late.


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## tilt

geostan said:


> Don't Itka's translations suggest a difference to you?


Er... Yes, they do. I agree with her.
But my new question is not about this! 



Avalar said:


> _If I were going to be late, I would ring you._
> _If I were to be late, I would ring you._
> 
> In the first sentence, unlike the second, the speaker would definitely ring *before* they were late. In the second sentence, the sense of future is not there, and the person might only ring when they were already late.


Ok, that makes sense to me.
Thanks a lot.


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## radagasty

geostan said:


> There is a difference. _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ could be used if the speaker knows or suspects that he will be late, and wants to inform his listener, e.g.
> 
> _If I were going to be late tomorrow, I would let you know._


 
I'm rather surprised at this assertion, for I would say the opposite.

_If I were..._ represents the so-called hypothetical or counterfactual subjunctive, which usually indicates that the condition introduced by the _if_ clause is untrue, e.g.,

_If I were rich, I would buy a big house._
Si j'étais riche, j'achèterais une grande maison.

Therefore, _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ rather indicates to me that the speaker is assuming that he will not in fact be late tomorrow.

_If I were late tomorrow, all hell would break loose, but I shall be on time, so things will be just fine._

If the speaker thought that there was a possibility that he might be late, then the indicative should be used in place of the subjunctive:

_If I am going to be late tomorrow, I'll let you know._


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## timpeac

tilt said:


> Many thanks for your answers, Beaujohn and Geostan.
> But I've got another question!
> 
> As I said, I never came across _If I were going to be late..._, but I already read sentences like _If I were to be late..._
> Is there any difference between this and _If I were going to be late..._ and/or _If I were late..._?


If I were going to be late I would phone you - this refers to a hypothetical time before I am late but when I know that I inevitably will be (a possible future where I'm stuck in traffic for example, it's 7.30 now, I'm due at 8 but I know there's no way I can arrive before 9 so I phone).

If I were late I would phone you - refers to a future time when I'm already late.

If I were to be late I would phone you - this is a grammatical variant of the one above (but not the "going to be" one). With any verb (including "to be" itself) you can use "if I were to verb" to stress the subjunctivity of it - since most verbs don't have a different form in the past subjunctive. So you can say "if I were to have money I would buy a car" or "if I had money I would buy a car" with pretty much the same meaning. The "were to have" version sounds more formal to me, and I think I detect a nuance of "if it turned out that I found myself in the position of..."


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## timpeac

Another potential source of confusion - "to be to" can mean "to be due to" (as opposed to "to be going to" although the difference can be quite subtle. So, you can say "the prisoner is to die at three tomorrow". To my ear you cannot make this sentence hypothetical in the usual way. If you said "if the prisoner were to die at three tomorrow I would be surprised" this could only mean "if the prisoner died at three tomorrow I would be surprised" in line with what I wrote above. To make it hypothetical you'd have to say something really contorted like "if the prisoner were to be to die tomorrow at three I would be surprised"! I hope I haven't overly complicated things there...


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## Almacorazon

radagasty said:


> I'm rather surprised at this assertion, for I would say the opposite.
> 
> _If I were..._ represents the so-called hypothetical or counterfactual subjunctive, which usually indicates that the condition introduced by the _if_ clause is untrue, e.g.,
> 
> _If I were rich, I would buy a big house._
> Si j'étais riche, j'achèterais une grande maison.
> 
> Therefore, _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ rather indicates to me that the speaker is assuming that he will not in fact be late tomorrow.
> 
> _If I were late tomorrow, all hell would break loose, but I shall be on time, so things will be just fine._
> 
> If the speaker thought that there was a possibility that he might be late, then the indicative should be used in place of the subjunctive:
> 
> _If I am going to be late tomorrow, I'll let you know._


 
Best answer!


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## Mauricet

Reprenons donc la question initiale de beaujohn : peut-on _traduire_ en français _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ ? Je retiens l'interprétation de radagasty contre celle de geostan : _If I were_ est un _counterfactual subjunctive_. Je veux donc dire : _Je ne serai certainement pas en retard demain ; si j'allais l'être_, je ferais ceci et cela. La traduction d'itka _Si (jamais) je devais être en retard demain_, qui semble la meilleure, ne retient cependant pas le caractère contrefactuel de _If I were_, et sa rétro-traduction anglaise serait plutôt _If I (ever) was going to be late tomorrow_. Alors, peut-on *vraiment* traduire _If I were going to_ comme distinct de _If I was going to_ ? Il semble que non, sauf à remplacer la proposition par tout un paragraphe ...


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## geostan

radagasty said:


> I'm rather surprised at this assertion, for I would say the opposite.
> 
> _If I were..._ represents the so-called hypothetical or counterfactual subjunctive, which usually indicates that the condition introduced by the _if_ clause is untrue, e.g.,
> 
> _If I were rich, I would buy a big house._
> Si j'étais riche, j'achèterais une grande maison.
> 
> Therefore, _If I were going to be late tomorrow_ rather indicates to me that the speaker is assuming that he will not in fact be late tomorrow.
> 
> _If I were late tomorrow, all hell would break loose, but I shall be on time, so things will be just fine._
> 
> If the speaker thought that there was a possibility that he might be late, then the indicative should be used in place of the subjunctive:
> 
> _If I am going to be late tomorrow, I'll let you know._



Granted. Both sentences are conditions contrary-to-fact. But there is still a difference in meaning, at least to my way of thinking.

_If I were late tomorrow, all hell would break loose._ [There is an expectation that this will not occur, but that if it did, the consequence would be as stated.]

_If I were going to be late tomorrow, I would let you know._ [The same expectation exists, but there is an added note of presumed foreknowledge. It amounts to saying:_ If I knew that I was going to be late tomorrow, I would let you know._ This not likely to occur, but if I suspected it might, I would tell you.]


I think Itka's suggested translation with the verb _devoir_ is accordingly appropriate.


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## semperreg

*if i were going to ..*..= s'il arrivait que je sois en retard...

Cette nuance est exprimée en français par "arriver que" ou "si par hasard..."

*Demain *ne se met pas forcément à la fin en français.

If i were to be late = si j'étais en retard (traduction du prétérit par un imparfait français) avec la conséquence exprimée en anglais.


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## geostan

semperreg said:


> *if i were going to ..*..= s'il arrivait que je sois en retard...
> 
> Cette nuance est exprimée en français par "arriver que" ou "si par hasard..."
> 
> *Demain *ne se met pas forcément à la fin en français.
> 
> If i were to be late = si j'étais en retard (traduction du prétérit par un imparfait français) avec la conséquence exprimée en anglais.



Pas d'accord, parce que votre traduction ne tient pas compte de la nuance que j'ai indiquée plus haut, soit le rôle du sujet.


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## Mauricet

semperreg said:


> *if i were going to ..*..= s'il arrivait que je sois en retard...
> 
> Cette nuance est exprimée en français par "arriver que" ou "si par hasard..."


_Si *par impossible* j'allais (être en retard demain_) = _If I were going to (be late tomorrow)_. C'est ça la formule d'une proposition contrefactuelle pour le futur.

_S'il arrivait que_ ou _Si par hasard_ conviennent pour des futurs plausibles, pas pour des futurs dont on est certain qu'ils ne seront pas.


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