# charmer (folklore)



## Fumiko Take

Actually I'm tryna find a Vietnamese one but it's gonna be lame so I'd like to find the Chinese equivalent for "charmer", in terms of folklore, a magic practitioner.


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## xiaolijie

Hi Fumiko,
The word "charmer" is rarely used in the sense you wanted, and you may get the wrong translation for it. I'd use the word "wizard" (or "sorcerer" or "magician") here. 
The equivalents in Chinese would be these: 巫师/ 男巫/ 魔术师. 
In Vietnamese, you can use "thầy phù thuỷ", "thầy pháp".

If you tell us the context you would use the word in, we may come up with something more specific.


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## Fumiko Take

The thing is I've had to make things clear enough, so I can't just use other words. Wizard, sorcerer, magician, warlock, witch, pilgrim, guru, shaman, miko, blah-blah,... are all not what I need. Maybe I just... define it myself. Thank you for help.


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## strad

Are you looking for something more like enchantress?  Or the folklore creatures that try to charm humans (and then do bad things to them)?  I think these are  called 魅魔 in Chinese.  Or possibly 魑魅.


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## Fumiko Take

Enchantress would be good. But actually charmers don't charm. They just practice magic, and according to this, very good magic. Yet I have no idea why they were called "charmers".


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## Skatinginbc

Fumiko Take said:


> according to this, very good magic.


半仙


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## SuperXW

You know each culture has many choices for these things. It's hard to define an exact equivalence for such a word because it's all culturally different. 
You should have told use the uniqueness of your "charmer" from other "magic practitioners" at the beginning, or better, showed us a picture.

To xiaolijie, in modern Chinese, 魔术师 usually means an illusionist who do not really possess any magical power, while 魔法师 is for a paranormal magician.


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## stellari

It is really hard to find a word that describes 'practitioners of English folk magic' in Chinese. However, there is a word for 'practitioners of Chinese folk magic', which is 术士 or 方士. 
These people attempt to achieve immortality through means such as meditation, ceremonies and alchemy based on the ancient Chinese philosophy.


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## Fumiko Take

I know it's quite hard, but I found a Japanese equivalent of "charmer", so I thought I could find a Chinese equivalent, too. Thank y'all for your help.


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## stellari

Tell us the Japanese equivalent then? If it is written in Kanji, then there is chance that you can directly use that word in Chinese as well; if it is spelled out in katakana, then it might be simply a phonetic translation of the word 'charmer' or something like that.


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## SuperXW

stellari said:


> Tell us the Japanese equivalent then? If it is written in Kanji, then there is chance that you can directly use that word in Chinese as well; if it is spelled out in katakana, then it might be simply a phonetic translation of the word 'charmer' or something like that.


Yes.
This reminds me of the equivalent of Shaman - 薩滿.


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## Fumiko Take

stellari said:


> Tell us the Japanese equivalent then? If it is written in Kanji, then there is chance that you can directly use that word in Chinese as well; if it is spelled out in katakana, then it might be simply a phonetic translation of the word 'charmer' or something like that.


Whoa, easy man! If you're still following this thread, I just come here to say I didn't think anyone would follow it then. Yeah, I did find a Japanese equivalent: 使い (tsukai), and the familiar spirits going with the charmers would be 使い魔 (tsukaima). If you could provide any help with these, be my guest.


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## xiaolijie

We're very interested in your topic, Fumiko!  And thank you for giving us the Japanese words.
But, D) are you sure you've got the Japanese words correctly? Both 使い (tsukai) and 使い魔 seem to be wrong to me. Are you thinking of 魔法使い (mahōtsukai)? This is "wizard"/ "sorcerer", the words I suggested earlier.


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## Fumiko Take

They might be wrong to you, but actually they are not: I just copied and pasted the words from trusted sources (very trusted indeed). Yet I have no idea why they're so weird, so untranslatable. Thanks y'all for all your replies.
P/s: You could check this out: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/使い魔


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## xiaolijie

Thanks for the link, fumiko! 
It's interesting that when I asked a Japanese friend about 使い魔, she said she'd never heard of it. The same with "charmer", if you mention this word to native English speakers, most would think of something completely different from what you've got here. Anyway, I hope someone would come up with the right word in Chinese for you


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## Fumiko Take

Thanks for keeping replying, that's really comforting of you. What you said wouldn't surprise me: not everybody has interest in such a stupid topic. I should make my own word.


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## SuperXW

Fumiko Take said:


> What you said wouldn't surprise me: not everybody has interest in such a stupid topic. I should make my own word.


A lot of people are still interested, including me, since it's part of the traditional culture as well as popular culture. I don't know the English word "charmer" nor Japanese, but I believe I can find the best equivalent in Chinese AS LONG AS YOU PROVIDED THE EXACT DEFINITION AT THE BEGINNING.

Your Wikipedia page about 使い魔, has its English page "familiar spirits", WHICH IS CLEARLY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR ORIGINAL PAGE OF "CHARMER". 

I've played enough games to know what 使い魔 and "familiar spirits" means. So is this your type of "charmer"? We do have full Chinese translations for mangas like "Yu-Gi-Oh", "Shaman King", and video games like "Castlevania", you know? *We usually call these "charmers" 召喚師 (summoner), 馴獸師 (animal or monster trainer), or "通靈師" (psychic)*.

Because I care about it, and I've had enough with bad translations in video games and fictions, PLEASE DO NOT MAKE UP ANY STRANGE CHINESE WORD BY YOURSELF. 
You are the boss if you want to make a Vietnamese one. But it would be lamer if you create a strange word in Chinese...


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## Lamb67

马道*婆 a woman  practitioner  of the tricks with a surname of Ma as in The Dream of The Red Mansion.*


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## Skatinginbc

Fumiko Take said:


> I'd like to find the Chinese equivalent for "charmer", in terms of folklore, a magic practitioner...and the familiar spirits going with the charmers would be 使い魔 (tsukaima).


役靈師, 精靈之主 (e.g., 神燈精靈的主人), 馭妖師, 靈獸之主 (e.g., 九尾靈狐的主人)...


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