# Ham-dram



## citro

What's the meaning of this word, ham-dram?  Is it right that it is a kind of drama competition among non professional actors? Is there a transaltion of this word in Italian? Many thanks.


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## Paulfromitaly

E' fondamentale che tu scriva:
- la *frase originale intera*
- * il tuo tentativo di traduzione *
e ci dia qualche informazione a proposito del *contesto*, grazie 

Cosa significa "*aggiungere il contesto*"?
*Come e in che forum creare - modificare - impostare correttamente una discussione*


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## citro

Si sta organizzando uno spettacolo. Uno degli organizzatori propone di recitare un testo e dice: "I do it to great acclaim every year at the ham dram".
Il mio tentativo: "La recito ogni anno con grande successo alla gara tra attori da strapazzo" (ham=attore da strapazzo, guitto).


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## TimLA

Hi,
I doubt seriously that there is a translation into Italian, since the "word" is invented.

You might consider using "ham dram" and then explaining it parenthetically. (dramma dei gigioni)?


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## theartichoke

It sounds like a pun on "hum-drum" as well, but that's no help at all with the translation. Probably another reason to follow Tim's suggestion, though, and leave it in English with a parenthetical explanation.


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## alicip

Esiste il termine "am-dram" = Amateur dramatics.


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## citro

Grazie a tutti. Timla, dramma dei gigioni mi piace molto ma forse ha anche ragione alicip e probabilmente va bene tradurre come attori non professionali. Ma qui a cosa si riferiscono? https://www.facebook.com/events/770572879688536/


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## alicip

Guarda, secondo me la parola "HAMDRAM" è cosi composta: "HAM(pshire)DRAM(a)". E NON dovresti tradurlo. Che dici, c'ho preso? 
Secondary schools all over *Hampshire *come together to compete in this exciting *drama *competition.


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## TimLA

alicip said:


> Guarda, secondo me la parola "HAMDRAM" è cosi composta: "HAM(pshire)DRAM(a)". E NON dovresti tradurlo. Che dici, c'ho preso?
> Secondary schools all over *Hampshire *come together to compete in this exciting *drama *competition.


You got it!!!!!! I'll delete my post.


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## tsoapm

citro said:


> Timla, dramma dei gigioni mi piace molto ma forse ha anche ragione alicip e probabilmente va bene tradurre come attori non professionali.


Il gioco di ‘(h)am(ateur)’ è proprio che vuol dire tutti e due. Sono attori professionali, e questo è epresso con autoironia.





alicip said:


> "HAM(pshire)DRAM(a)"


Non credo proprio a meno che non sia chiarissimo dal contesto (non so se la risposta di TimLA fosse sarcasmo o meno).


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## alicip

Mark Dobson said:


> Il gioco di ‘(h)am(ateur)’ è proprio che vuol dire tutti e due. Sono attori professionali, e questo è epresso con autoironia.Non credo proprio a meno che non sia chiarissimo dal contesto (non so se la risposta di TimLA fosse sarcasmo o meno).


Beh per me è più che chiaro: https://www.facebook.com/events/770572879688536/


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## tsoapm

Lì, però, è:





Mark Dobson said:


> chiarissimo dal contesto


No one mentioned Hampshire before you did. It seems rather like you just pulled the idea out of hat: why not any other word beginning with ‘ham’?

The formatting also differs somewhat. If ‘ham’ means ‘Hampshire’, it should really have a capital letter since ‘Hampshire’ is a proper name, and the names of events are normally treated similarly. There’s a difference in the spacing too.


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## alicip

Actually the OP said that "HAMDRAM" comes from here (see his/her post #7):


> Grazie a tutti. Timla, dramma dei gigioni mi piace molto ma forse ha anche ragione alicip e probabilmente va bene tradurre come attori non professionali. Ma qui a cosa si riferiscono? https://www.facebook.com/events/770572879688536/


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## tsoapm

I see that I was wrong about nobody mentioning Hampshire, but citro didn’t in fact say that it came from there; I believe you’ve merely inferred it. Her text doesn’t seem to be on the page. I imagine that she found her term there and wondered if it was relevant.


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## alicip

Mark Dobson said:


> I see that I was wrong about nobody mentioning Hampshire, but citro didn’t in fact say that it came from there; I believe you’ve merely inferred it. Her text doesn’t seem to be on the page. I imagine that she found her term there and wondered if it was relevant.


Who knows? But citro asked: 


> Ma qui a cosa si riferiscono? https://www.facebook.com/events/770572879688536/


And I have replied: HAMDRAM = "HAM(pshire)DRAM(a)"...given the context...which is this one: https://www.facebook.com/events/770572879688536/. Or maybe not?


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## citro

Nel testo che ho io non si fa riferimento a Hampshire. Nel testo che ho io ci sta meglio la commedia dei guitti o dei gigioni o degli attori da strapazzo.


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## chipulukusu

I don't know if this has already been clarified, as there are links I can't access at the moment, but I take a stance for alicip's #6 meaning of _ham_ as _amateur._ If we think at words like _ham-handed _or _ham-fisted_ meaning _clumsy, unprofessional_, the pun on _ham-am (amateur)_ should not be considered hazardous...


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## johngiovanni

chipulukusu said:


> If we think at words like _ham-handed _or _ham-fisted_ meaning _clumsy, unprofessional_, the pun on _ham-am (amateur)_ should not be considered hazardous...


I agree.  I found this reference: "And...the long awaited return of the THE WIDCOMBE PLAYERS - putting the 'am' back in ham dram!" in a notice put out by the Widcombe Social Club in 2010.  Widcombe is a district of the city of Bath in the county of Somerset.


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## tsoapm

chipulukusu said:


> I don't know if this has already been clarified … If we think *of* words like _ham-handed _or _ham-fisted_ meaning _clumsy, unprofessional_, the pun on _ham-am (amateur)_ should not be considered hazardous _(azzardato? “a coincidence” I'd say)_ ...


Ham = gigione is already in the WR dictionary, and from what I read in monolingual dictionaries, it seems like the ideal translation to me. This is specific to acting, whereas 'ham' is used more generally to suggest lousiness, which happens to make me think of _cane_ in Italian for bad actors.


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## alicip

Unfortunately, as Tim said, there's no such a word as "ham-dram". "Ham" (i.e. A performer who overacts or exaggerates) means "gigione".  Then we have "am-dram" = Amateur dramatics. If we take "ham" and add it to "dram" (i.e. dramatics) we get: "ham-dram" = "commedia dei gigioni".


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## citro

Grazie a tutti! E giusto per chiudere il cerchio e dare completamente ragione a alicip, più in là l'attore da strapazzo dà un consiglio ad un'attrice da strapazzo e dice: "You can always read off the page like we do at the am-dram ham-dram." E qui il gioco di parole diventa un po' complicato.


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## tsoapm

Not so much complicated as clumsy, I’d say. Am-dram we know is a noun; ham-dram too, from your source. So they’ve doubled up the noun and are using one kind of dramatics as a noun adjunct to define another kind of dramatics: it lacks a certain linguistic rigour, shall we say.


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## alicip

What's certain is that these guys won't get a part in a drama we all know: Ham(let).   ha(m) ha(m) ha(m)!


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## sorry66

Following on from johng I found this 'and of course our very own cult ham dram troupe, *The Widcombe Players*'

I agree that 'ham dram' is not a known term. However, in context it makes sense.
In farces you are supposed to 'ham it up' so the 'hammier' the better.
So for an amateur troupe of comic actors it's not a bad name and the play on words would be obvious to an audience going to see some kind of vaudeville play or knockabout farce or pantomime.


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## chipulukusu

Mark Dobson said:


> the pun on ham-am (amateur) should not be considered hazardous (azzardato? “a coincidence” I'd say)



Mark, did I slip on yet another false friend?


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## citro

sorry66 said:


> Following on from johng I found this 'and of course our very own cult ham dram troupe, *The Widcombe Players*'
> 
> I agree that 'ham dram' is not a known term. However, in context it makes sense.
> In farces you are supposed to 'ham it up' so the 'hammier' the better.
> So for an amateur troupe of comic actors it's not a bad name and the play on words would be obvious to an audience going to see some kind of vaudeville play or knockabout farce or pantomime.



In fact here they are talking about taking part in a pantomime.


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## tsoapm

@chipulukusu It would appear so, but we do ‘hazard a guess’ in English, if it helps you feel any better.


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## chipulukusu

Mark Dobson said:


> @chipulukusu It would appear so, but we do ‘hazard a guess’ in English, if it helps you feel any better.


Thank you Mark, yes, I  do feel a bit better


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## sorry66

citro said:


> In fact here they are talking about taking part in a pantomime.



Great, so 'hammy' acting is exactly what is required and not pejorative here!


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## citro

sorry66 said:


> Great, so 'hammy' acting is exactly what is required and not pejorative here!


Yes, you are right.


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