# Urdu, Hindi: is se ki paihle



## Qureshpor

In a recent thread, the phrase "is se ki paihle" was used as illustrated in the quote below.


greatbear said:


> Also used for positive sentences: e.g. the same sentence could be rephrased as "is se ki paihle koi nishaan miTne paae, tum udhar jaa ke puurii tafsiil kar lo". [...]


I am wondering if this is Hindi style for the usual "is se pahle kih" which is used in Urdu. My query is not concerned with any spelling differences, merely on the word order. Your comments please.


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> In a recent thread, the phrase "is se ki paihle" was used as illustrated in the quote below.
> 
> I am wondering if this is Hindi style for the usual "is se pahle kih" which is used in Urdu. My query is not concerned with any spelling differences, merely on the word order. Your comments please.



"Private Message" link uupar hai. agar aap un se directly pooCHeN, to shaayad javaab milegaa.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> "Private Message" link uupar hai. agar aap un se directly pooCHeN, to shaayad javaab milegaa.


maiN ne sochaa kih shaayad aap jaise mahaan Hindi jaan_ne vaale merii madad kar sakeN ge. yih bhii ho saktaa hai kih maiN "un ko" PM ke qaabil hii nahiiN samajhtaa!

bihtar hai kih aaj se le kar aap "un" hii ko PM kar ke apne savaal puuchh liyaa kareN! kyaa xayaal hai?


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## marrish

_PM ke ma3nii yih hoN ge: *P*arde *M*eN rahne do, pardah nah uThaa'o_!


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## greatbear

Grammar books don't recommend? Pity! You are missing out on a commonly used colloquialism. Your loss.


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## Qureshpor

I would like to request other Hindi speakers to come forward to offer their views on whether is se ki paihle ​is the accepted norm amongst Hindi speakers.


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## insouciantguru

QURESHPOR said:


> I would like to request other Hindi speakers to come forward to offer their views on whether is se ki paihle ​is the accepted norm amongst Hindi speakers.



I've heard it around, but "is se pahle kih" is more commonly heard, IMO, at least here in Delhi.


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## Qureshpor

insouciantguru said:


> I've heard it around, but "is se pahle kih" is more commonly heard, IMO, at least here in Delhi.


Thank you, much appreciated.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> I would like to request other Hindi speakers to come forward to offer their views on whether is se ki paihle ​is the accepted norm amongst Hindi speakers.



The art of stuffing words into others' mouths ...


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## Qureshpor

Interestingly, I have n't found a single example of "is se ki paihle" in print. I would have expected the odd example, here and there.


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## marrish

Did you do the same with Hindi script?


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> The art of stuffing words into others' mouths ...


I think it is a question of QP, not a statement. Your post does not answer the question.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Did you do the same with Hindi script?


Yes, I did. If you found any examples, please post them as my search may not have been foolproof.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> Interestingly, I have n't found a single example of "is se ki paihle" in print. I would have expected the odd example, here and there.



Now for the art of searching ...

""इससे कि पहले" gives 500+ results on Google search. Easily more than "single"?


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> Now for the art of searching ...
> 
> ""इससे कि पहले" gives 500+ results on Google search. Easily more than "single"?


It seems the record has to be set straight about the art of searching: Out of those 500+ results, all of them are just repetitions of literally TWO results!

विकास! पूछो _इससे कि पहले_ यह सब्ज़ी काटने वाला चाकू लेकर घूमता था कि नहीं.
Vikaas! puuchho isse ki pahle yah sabzii kaaTne vaalaa chaakuu lekar ghuumtaa thaa ki nahiIN.

and this:

एक अवसर पा गए है आज फिर से लड़ते जीते 
काम कुछ कर जायेंगे *इससे कि पहले* पलक झपके 
और जो मुझको सहारा था किसी का आज बनना 
बस थामना चाहूँगा मै गिरते हुए उनके पतन का

ek avsar paa gae hai aaj phir se laRte jiite
kaam kuchh kar jaayeNge isse ki pahle palak jhapke
aur jo mujhko sahaaraa thaa kisii kaa aaj bannaa
bas thaamnaa chaahuuN gaa mai girte hue unke patan kaa

A question to all: are these examples along the same lines like the ''is se pahle'' used in the OP?


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## greatbear

^ Well, QP at least found his "single example", since yes, we are discussing the "is se ki paihle palak jhapke" type of construction.


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## marrish

^You will admit that 'single' is something radically different than ''500+''? However in terms of Google hits, both numbers fall into the same category which we can call ''_nah hone ke baraabar_'' while you said it was a *commonly used* colloquialism. Either the internet is full of literary texts in High Hindi and one can find nothing colloquial in here or *इससे कि पहले पलक झपके *is nothing more than a typo!


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## greatbear

^ Even 500 is very less a figure on Google hits, if my intention were to prove that is is _commonly used_; which, however, was not my intention.

One doesn't find colloquialisms in print, in Hindi-Urdu particularly: have you ever seen "kaa kar reyaa haye"? (standard form: "kyaa kar rahaa hai?") in print? On Google searches? I haven't. And yet it is highly common construction, understood by all Hindi speakers (including those who wouldn't employ it themselves).

The Internet shows standard Hindi, standard Urdu (the latter, I guess, is anyway very confined to standards, and maybe does not possess a too large variety of registers; at least your and QP's posts lead one to this impression): not much of actually spoken Hindi/Urdu.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> ^ In the first example, no one said that one cannot change "guide" to "guides" (and "kaa" to "ke"): if each star is going to do its own guiding business, then "guides" would be appropriate, and if the stars in unison are gonna do the guiding, "guide" would be appropriate. Hope it serves as both English and Hindi lesson.





greatbear said:


> ^ Even 500 is very less a figure on Google hits, if my intention were to prove that is is _commonly used_; which, however, was not my intention.


English lesson? I don't think there is any need to provide further examples. As for Hindi, God forbid! TS as a learner has better grasp of the language! ....

.....
No need to splash scores of other examples. Two points might be worth taking heed of. Second part of # post 23 of the thread below..

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2380878&page=2

..or the situation will remain as made clear in the sentence in # post 1 of this thread.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2585288&highlight=paNgaa


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> It seems the record has to be set straight about the art of searching: Out of those 500+ results, all of them are just repetitions of literally TWO results!


So, it looks as if that even from these two examples, only the second one matches "is se ki pahle". Am I right?

If this is the case, it is no wonder that apart from insouciantguru no one else on the forum has had anything to say for this "colloquialism". It does n't seem all that widespread, two or three people on the net and a few others here and there!


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> So, it looks as if that even from these two examples, only the second one matches "is se ki pahle". Am I right?
> 
> If this is the case, it is no wonder that apart from insouciantguru no one else on the forum has had anything to say for this "colloquialism". It does n't seem all that widespread, two or three people on the net and a few others here and there!


Yes, you're right. puuchho isse ki pahle yah sabzii kaaTne vaalaa chaakuu lekar ghuumtaa thaa ki nahiIN can be divided as follows:
puuchho isse (ask him)
 ki (whether)
pahle (before)
yah sabzii kaaTne vaalaa chaakuu lekar ghuumtaa thaa ki nahiIN ,,, so it is clear that it doesn't match an expression ''is se ki pahle''.

I have already suggested that the second example appears to be a typo if not a simple mistake. Still, even if it was intended, I have my doubts if it matches ''is se ki pahle''. And even if it does then one swallow does not a summer make! You are too generous using the numerals above two!


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## Qureshpor

QURESHPOR said:


> Interestingly, I have n't found a single example of "is se ki paihle" in print. I would have expected the *odd* example, here and there.





marrish said:


> [...] I have already suggested that the second example appears to be a typo if not a simple mistake. Still, even if it was intended, I have my doubts if it matches ''is se ki pahle''. And even if it does then one swallow does not a summer make! You are too generous using the numerals above two!


So we have found the *odd* example!


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## nineth

insouciantguru said:


> I've heard it around, but "is se pahle kih" is more commonly heard, IMO, at least here in Delhi.



+1  As far as I remember, I've always used "is se pahle ki".  I speak standard Hindi (Delhi, Uttarakhand, western UP, NCR - style)


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> So we have found the *odd* example!


 QP SaaHib, as you know even this odd example really doesn't count since the usage and meaning of keh / ki here is different from what you queried in the starting post. 

BTW, we also say_ "isse pahle keh"_, whether speaking Urdu or Hindi.


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> +1 As far as I remember, I've always used "is se pahle ki". I speak standard Hindi (Delhi, Uttarakhand, western UP, NCR - style)


Thank you for this. This is what I thought was the norm too.


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> So, it looks as if that even from these two examples, only the second one matches "is se ki pahle". Am I right?
> 
> If this is the case, it is no wonder that apart from insouciantguru no one else on the forum has had anything to say for this "colloquialism". It *does n't* seem all that widespread, two or three people on the net and a few others here and there!


 As stated earlier, "is se ki pahle" is not standard Hindi-Urdu, nor can it be called a "colloquialism" in either! 

BTW, you spell like it this: doesn't!


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