# writing & saying dates in English (AE / BE usage) / comment dire et écrire les dates en anglais



## sdv

Could some one remind me the right position of the words for the date ?

Following the mail I sent you the 5th december (or december the 5th ? or the 5th of december ?)  concerning the quotation

Would you please  be kind enough to give us your answer before friday, the 23rd december 2005.

Thanks a lot for your helpful advice 

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one. If you're interrested in the _French_ way of writing dates, see writing the date in French / comment écrire la date en français.


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## tonch

I'd say either of these

Following the mail I sent you on the 5th of December concerning the quotation

Following the mail I sent you on December the 5th concerning the quotation 

Probably the first one is tiny bit better though 

The second one is fine. Capitalising the names of the months and days is best.

Would you please be kind enough to give us your answer before Friday, December 23, 2005.


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## la reine victoria

Hi sdv,

We normally leave out the word 'the' when writing the date (except in legal documents). You can have

on 5th December
on 5 December

before  Friday, 23rd December
before  Friday, 23 December


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## french4beth

sdv said:
			
		

> Would you please be kind enough to give us your answer before friday, the 23rd december 2005.


 
Hi sdv,

You could also say "before Friday, December 5th, 2005."

(And don't forget to capitalize the days of the week & the month  ).


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## Ratona

Shall I point out, just in case you don't know that in 
BrE we express dates: day/month/year but in 
AmE dates are written: month/day/year
so it will depend on who you are writing to.


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## sdv

I don't want to abuse but can I have just two more precisions please :

1 : do I have to capitalize the days of the week first and the month 
     or the name of the months and the date 

      I'm a bit confused.

2 - before friday, december 23, 2005 
     or before friday, december 23rd, 2005 

      may be the both are correct ?

and do not hesitate to correct me.

Thank you so much to all


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## Mikie8421

sdv,
  1: You want to capitalize both days of the week and months.
  2: I would say the date is more commonly written as Friday, December    23, 2005, though it would be spoken as "23rd" written either way


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## Ratona

You must capitalize days and months, so:

BrE: ...before Friday 23rd December 2005 (I think the comma between friday and 23rd may be optional! Sorry!)

AmE -..before Friday, December 23rd, 2005

I would always write the rd (23*rd*) unless in numerical format only:
BrE : 23/12/2005
AmE: 12/23/2005

Is it clear now?


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## judkinsc

sdv said:
			
		

> 1 : do I have to capitalize the days of the week first and the month
> or the name of the months and the date


Yes, capitalize the days and the months.



			
				sdv said:
			
		

> 2 - before friday, december 23, 2005
> or before friday, december 23rd, 2005


In the US, we'd say "Friday, December 23rd, 2005." as the most correct way. If you do not use the "rd", it will be understood, but I prefer to keep it. Perhaps it is dropped in legal documents, though.

The most formal way is "On Friday, the twenty-third day of December, in the two thousand fifth year [of our Lord]." But I really doubt that you need to use that, it's usually used in marriage announcements, graduation announcements, etc...


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## pieanne

The "the" in the date is pronounced, but not written.


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## french4beth

A couple of other 'date' items:

November 21st
January 22nd
July 23rd
December 24th, 25th, 26th, etc.


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## caro33

Bonjour,

juste un renseignement à propos des dates
Lorsqu'on ecrit sous cette forme par exemple 15/12/2006 qu'est ce que cela donne en anglais ?
J'ai entendu dire sue les anglais présentaient comme nous mais qu'aux USA les mois et les jours étaient intervertis.

Qu'en est il ?


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## FAC13

Yes, we write dates the same way you do, and yes, the month/day order is reversed in the US.


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## french4beth

In Canada (in French, any way), the order is the same as in the original post (le 15 december 2006); in English, I believe it's the same as in Europe (15-12-06).  In the US, the above date would read: December 15, 2006.


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## Gutenberg

In the U.S., it's often 2006/12/15


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## Pedro y La Torre

The Americans, for a reason I still cannot understand (maybe they just want to be different), invert the date.

So today is 12/15/2006 instead of the normal 15/12/2006.


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## french4beth

Gutenberg said:


> In the U.S., it's often 2006/12/15


Gutenberg, in what context have you seen this?  Just curious...


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## Gutenberg

french4beth said:


> Gutenberg, in what context have you seen this?  Just curious...



Mostly for computers...


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## Ariane 31

Hello!

I am filling out a form in American English and I need to write my birthdate. Is "11/03/1982" ok for November 3, 1982 ?

_Thank you for correcting if necessary._


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## LadyPris

yes it is!


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## Ariane 31

Thank you for helping !


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## DearPrudence

Am I wrong to say that it's what we _say _but that we should _write_:
*Today is 10 July, 2007* (but we read "Today is the tenth of July, 2007")
*It's 10 July, 2007 today.*

Please tell me, I'm always confused 

[…]


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## mignardise

True, we do read it aloud that way, even though it's written form is somewhat shorter.
However, in N. American English, the day goes behind the month:
*Today is July 10, 2007. *
*(read as "Today is July tenth two thousand seven) ---->when speaking, the "and" is usually left out (i.e. two thousand and seven)*


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## Axl Rose

Oh, I forgot, what about the day ?
How should I write ?
"Today is Tuesday July 10, 2007 ?"


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## Arrius

Canadian usage and spelling are often closer to BE than the English of the USA, so even if one does not generally say _July ten_ north of the 49th parallel, I am pretty certain I have heard this south of the border.


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## furet

Yes, it's confusing.

The Brits write "Today is Tuesday July 10, 2007" but would usually say "Today is Tuesday July the tenth, two thousand and seven" or "Today is Tuesday the tenth of July..." They would never say "July ten," which is commonly used in the US (but not in Canada, apparently!)


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## mignardise

furet said:


> They would never say "July ten," which is commonly used in the US


 We don't say "July ten" when speaking, it is only written this way, as in: 
"July 10, 2007"
When pronouncing it AE speakers also say "July tenth".


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## Lany

I feel a little silly asking this, but what is the formal way to write the date in English?

Let's say this is the way to do it in french, how would it come up in English?.

  Québec, le 22 août 2007


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## LMorland

Hi, Lany.

It depends on whether your audience is English or American.  As a native of the "lower 48," I can tell you that I'd write:

Quebec (no accent mark), August 22, 2007


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## cappuccino&chocolate

August 22, 2007

You will see 22 August 2007 or 22nd of August 2007

The first suggestion is widely used.
The second one is found on business letters or documents and the last one is not used anymore but I am not sure. I saw this example in an old grammar book.

Perhaps native speakers could set us straight on the date formats.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Is it possible to write: Quebec, August 22nd, 2007?


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## LMorland

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Is it possible to write: Quebec, August 22nd, 2007?


Yes!  (I actually prefer it, but I'm a bit old-fashioned in the way I write dates.)


cappuccino&chocolate said:


> ... or 22nd of August 2007 ... is not used anymore but I am not sure. I saw this example in an old grammar book.


That must have been quite a dusty old grammar book!  I would guess that style went out before WWII, but don't take my word for it.

However! That _is_ the way we talk.  "On *the 22nd of August, 2007,* Hurricane Dean made landfall on Mexico's Yucatan peninsula."|


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## Nicomon

I don't know how accurate this page is, but it would appear that BE and AE date formats are different. In Canada, as far as I know, we write it the American way. Note that in BE (again assuming this info is correct), there is no comma before the year... same as in French.

Now about the suffix, opinions vary... As seen here


> In typing the date line, never abbreviate the name of the month or use figures for it. Also, use numerals only for the day of the month; never add *nd*, *d*, *rd*, *st*, or *th*. These sounds are heard but are never written.


 I personally use the suffix when the year isn't specified, e.g. I would write September 11th but September 11, 2001.
One exception I make is for the first of the month. I prefer September 1st, 2007 to September 1, 2007.


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## LMorland

Nicomon said:


> I don't know how accurate this page is, but it would appear that BE and AE date formats are different.


Dear Nicomon,
Yeah, as I noted above, the two do vary. […]

Here's something I found on the Web which seems closer to my understanding:





> Note that there are some differences  in style between letters written in American English and British English. For  example, the way of writing dates is different (the order is day, month, year  in Britain, eg 1/2/2002 or 1 Feb 2002 or 1st February 2002; month, day, year in  the US, eg 2/1/2002 or Feb. 1[,] 2002 or February 1st[,] 2002), and the way of starting  and ending the letter may also be different.


Study British English: Write letters, emails, essays; composition skills


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## wildan1

Nicomon said:


> Note that in BE (again assuming this info is correct), there is no comma before the year... same as in French.


 
In AE this comma disappears if there is no day in the date:

_August 30, 2007_ but _August 2007_

no suffixes are used after any date for business correspondence (1st, 5th, 22nd.), even though orally, one would say those endings in reading aloud the date so written.

all abbreviations are followed by a period: _Aug. 30, Mr., Ms., Mrs., Co._ etc.


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## michelba

2006/09/15 is called the international format (don't forget the leading "0" before the one digit days and months).

It is very convenient to sort the dates in a computer.

As you can see, if you have several dates written like this, you can sort them alphanumerically to get them in chronological order. This is something I use for all my personnel documents and files.

2007/09/15 will come just after 2007/09/14, ie the following day.

On the contrary, with the french dates :
15/12/2007
will come just after 15/12/2006, which is obviously not the following day.

From my experience in business, this format is understood in all cultures, at business level only.

Michel


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## Gutenberg

See Wikipedia for more explanations about style for dates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_date


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## moicestjoe

Hello all, 

I'm writing a list of opening hours in French and in English for a boutique and am having trouble deciding whether to include "th" next to the dates in English. 

In French the text reads:

Les 25, 26 & 27 juin, 
Lundi 14 juillet & vendredi 15 août :
10 h - 20 h

In English the choice is thus between:

June 25th, 26th & 27th, 
Monday July 14th, Friday August 15th:
10:00 - 20:00

OR:

June 25, 26 & 27, 
Monday July 14, Friday August 15
10:00 - 20:00

I find that it looks more elegant without the "th" but I want to make sure that I'm not leaving out an important element and my opinion hasn't been "polluted" by le français! 

Merci pour vos conseils, 
Joe


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## Maître Capello

For the sake of clarity I prefer the version without _th_'s as well…


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## Istarion

Yes, it's correct to miss out the 'th' when writing 'Thurday, 15 August' etc., but you _would_ need a 'th' if you wrote 'Thursday *the* 15th *of* August.'

I would always write it in this order: _Day, Date Month Year _(the comma is optional).

So for your example, I'd actually put '25, 26 & 27 June...'

Hope it helps,
J.


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## Maître Capello

Istarion said:


> I would always write it in this order: _Day, Date Month Year _(the comma is optional).
> 
> So for your example, I'd actually put '25, 26 & 27 June...'


This is the usage in the UK but not in the US.


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## CrepiIlLupo

Although the "25, 26 & 27 June" is more oft used in the U.K., it is also understoood and used in the U.S.  To my eye it looks more formal like this, but it's a matter of personal opinion.


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## uptown

I agree that it's understood, it's just not "standard". (Nor is my leaving the period outside the quote at the end of the sentence, but I much prefer the British punctuation standards. )

The standard in the US is to say the "th" but not write it out for dates.


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## lambiel7

Hi everybody...

I've seen lots of ways of translating in english the "je suis né le 9 aout 1987"... could anybody tell me if all the following sentences are correct? 

- I was born on 9 august 1987
- I was born on 9th august 1987
- I was born on August 9
- I was born on August 9th

And I know that when we read it (the date of birth), we have to add some words... Is the following sentence correct?
I was born on the 9th of August of 1987.

Thank you

Steve


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## envie de voyager

I was born on the 9th of August, 1987.

This is the most natural way to say it.


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## tilt

And I'd say the most common way to write it is _I was born on August 9, 1987_.
The _st/nd/rd/th_ after the day number seems to often drop, according to what I found on the net.

Could anyone confirm?


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## englishman

Formally it depends upon what form of punctuation you are using: "August 9, 1987" (or "9 August 1987") uses what used to be called "open punctuation".

I suspect "on the net", most people use some form of open punctuation due to laziness or idiocy, so it's more likely that you'll see this form online, but I wouldn't want to claim that it is, in general, the most common way of punctuating a date.


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## uptown

The American standard of *writing* and punctuating dates is as such:

_On July 4, 1776, the Americans declared their independence from England. _

The year is both preceeded and followed by a comma.

When reading that sentence aloud, you would say, "On July *fourth*, seventeen seventy-six, the Americans..."

I can't speak to British/Canadian/Australian standards or usage.


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## olliemae

This largely depends on where you are and in what context you're writing. All published material is edited using a style guide, which would tell you exactly how they want you to write dates. Unfortunately, there is discrepancy between guides when it comes to this. 

The general rule, however, is this:

For America, use                 August 9, 1987

For Europe, use                    9 August 1987

Note the commas and capitals, and we don't write the ordinal number (9th) in professional writing.


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## Chouquette

Hello,

If I want to say: She married Boris *on the 21st* of June 2008' is it correct or would it be better '*on 21st* of June 2008'

Thank you very much,
Chouquette.


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## Iznogoud

*on the 21st of June *(quoiqu'il s'agit d'une tournure inhabituelle). 

Preferred: *on June 21st*.


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## tilt

J'écrirais tout simplement _on 21 June 2008_ ou _on June 21, 2008_, comme il l'a été évoqué plus haut dans ce fil.


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## onbalance

Oui, si vous vous adressez à un américain, il faudrait écrire "on June 21, 2008." Le son "st" se prononce même s'il n'est pas écrit. Tout de même, "on the 21st of June, 2008" est théoriquement correct.


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## junkmonkey08

uptown said:


> The standard in the US is to say the "th" but not write it out for dates.


 
That's right - say the "th" but don't write it. Writing it looks much less formal - less professional. There should also be commas included to separate the day of the week from the month and date.

The form that looks best to me is:

June 25, 26, & 27,
Monday, July 14 & Friday, August 15:
10:00 - 20:00


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## lilyjak

Bonjour à tous !

J'ai un problème pour écrire la date en anglais, j'aimerais donc savoir quelle est la forme correcte :

The rebellion stopped the 17th July,1798
... the 17th of July, 1798
... the 17th of July 1798
... on the 17th July, 1798
... on 17th July, 1798

 Bref, je m'embrouille dans les prépositions, les virgules et l'ordre des jours/mois.
Si quelqu'un pouvait donc m'expliquer la (les) bonne(s) façon(s) et la différence entre l'anglais britannique et l'anglais américain s'il vous plaît.

PS: j'espère que ma question n'a pas déjà été traitée, j'ai cherché dans quelques posts mais n'ai trouvé aucun sujet qui me convenait (traitant des prépositions en particulier).


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## Curls

British écrit: "on July 17, 1798".
British parlé "on the 17th of July, 1798" ou "on July 17th, 1798"
British en chiffres: "on 17/07/1798".


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## tannen2004

L'anglais américain est pareil pour les formes écrite et parlée ("on July 17th, 1789" serait la plus commune des deux en AE) mais pour la date en chiffres on écrirait "on 7/17/1789".


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## Songbird17

Hi there! I'm working on a 4-page document from French into English and I ran across these dates: 02/09/94 au 31/12/95. Do I leave them as is or do I flip the month and day and put them in the format we use them here in the US, i.e. month first and then day? 
I would appreciate the help. Thank you!


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## Notquitegenius

If it's in American English, you need to change the format to mm/dd/yy because otherwise people will think that 02/09/94 is February 9th instead of September 2nd.  I think the British use the dd/mm/yy system though.


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## berndf

Absolutely, and it is, as you correctly pointed out, not an English vs. French issue but a North America vs. Europe thing. 09/11 would be understood as 9th of November everywhere in Europe, including Britain.


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## uptown

Laissez-mois faire une addition... on peut dire "the fourth of February", avec le chifre avant le mois (et avec "of"). Avec ce cas, moi, je n'ai pas de problème avec le "th" écrit: "the 4th of February" ou bien, pour nous: "the 4th of July". 

Mais on n'écrit jamais "July 4th". (Ou au moins, ceux qui savent la grammaire le font jamais--c'est un erreur courant)


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## wildan1

Written AE: _Today is March 16, 2009 or 3/16/09_
Spoken AE: _Today is March sixteenth two-thousand nine_


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## tigane

How would you write dates in a calendar announcing events? 

For example :
"September 1st" or "1 September"

Merci!


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## gardian

Dans quel pays ?

En UK/IRL, pour la correspondance officielle ou d'affaires, c'est écrit comme

*     1  September  2010*

Aux USA, pour la correspondance officielle ou d'affaires, c'est écrit comme

*    September 1  2010*

En UK/IRL, en correspondance personnelle, c'est encore souvent écrit comme

*1st September 2010*


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## tigane

Ce n'est pas pour un pays en particulier puisque c'est un calendrier sur un site internet qui annonce des dates de tournée...


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## gardian

Alors je suggère  1 September 2010 puisque ce soit le format le plus commun.


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## Paname

Bonjour,

Je déterre ce topic pour y ajouter ma petite question 

je suis en train de rédiger une lettre de motivation pour une entreprise internationale. La lettre en question est donc destinée à être lue par des britanniques comme des américains.
Je sais que la date ne s'écrit pas de la même manière des deux côtés de l'atlantique. Je me demandais donc quelle option passerait le mieux avec l'ensemble de mes potentiels lecteurs.

J'aurais tendance à l'écrire "Novembre 18, 2010".
Votre avis ?


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## flyingcabbage

Normalement, les Americains disent le mois avant que le jour - November 18th (11/18/2010) et les Irlandais et les Britanniques disent le jour avant que le mois - "The 18th of November" (18/11/2010).

Mais à l'écrit, ce n'est pas vraiment important. "November 18(th) 2010" ou "18(th) November" - ce sont égaux. Tout le monde vous comprendra.

C'est aux formes numériques que vous devez faire attention - aux États-Unis 2/11 signifie le 11 février mais en Grande Bretagne et Irlande 2/11 signifie le 2 novembre.


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## MargieL

En Australie c'est comme en Grande Bretagne: 2/11 = 2 Novembre


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## jann

Let me add an American voice here for those who might be curious.   Certainly there is nothing ambiguous about 18 Nov. 2010 or 18 November 2010... but this is not the way we write dates in American English.  Some Americans will recognize it as the British format.  Others will just figure it's a mistake.  If you leave the period out when you abbreviate the month, it looks sloppy or computer-y.

The American format puts the day after the month:  Nov. 18, 2010 or November 18, 2010 or 11/18/10.  You may include the "th" after 18, but it is not standard in business communication.

This order reflects how we habitually say days+months out loud in American English: when speaking, "on November eighteenth" is relatively more frequent than "on the eighteenth of November" ... and we simply do not say "on eighteen November."


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## Keith Bradford

My advice is directed as much at French writers as anyone: don't copy the all-numeral American usage, insert the name of the month.  That will be unambiguous.

In more general terms - this writing of dates is a little like chemical formulae: whatever you write will be pronounced according to local custom.  If you write 18 Nov. 2010, a French person will read it out loud as "le dix-huit novembre deux mille dix", an Englisman will read "the eighteenth of November, two thousand and ten", an American will pronounce it as "November eighteenth, two thousand ten".


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## jann

hi Keith, 

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  I didn't mean to be prescriptivist in any way.  American usage is what it is. And it appears no more illogical to me than British usage appears to you.  

My post was intended for French writers, and especially for Paname, who revived this thread 3 days ago to ask about writing the date in business correspondence intended for an international anglophone audience.  I totally agree with you that he should avoid ambiguity and spell out the name of the month -- or at least abbreviate it -- rather than using an all-numeral format.   Personally, I couldn't care less whether a foreigner chooses the UK or the US order for writing the date on a letter that is intended to be read by both Brits and Americans.  But if I, an American, used the UK format on a business letter here in the US, it would be considered incorrect.  And if a French speaker is writing a business letter in English destined for one audience or the other, UK or US, he should know the standards that are used in each country and choose accordingly.  And since the recent posts in this thread had focused on clarifying the UK standard, I added my own post to clarify the US standard.  Voilà !


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## Tom Duhamel

In Québec, if dates are to be abbreviated to only numerals, we have to use the international form of "yyyy-mm-dd", i.e. 2010-11-21, which to me is the only logical way. Though I am used to the American form of mm/dd/yyyy (note: we use a dash, they use a slash -- this distinction help us determine which format was used). In any case, when you are a small French speaking nation stuck in a continent of mostly American culture, you got to live with a lot of confusion when it comes to dates.


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## Francobritannocolombien

Canada is in a particularly odd position because the US format (mm/dd instead of dd/mm) is now often the default format on computer systems used here, although dd/mm is much more common throughout the world outside of the US, and that includes Canada. When someone writes 02/05 in Canada, you always have to ask if they mean May 2 or February 5.

The international format mentioned by Tom (yyyy-mm-dd) has one great  advantage over any other that it allows you to sort dates alphabetically  (OK, alphanumerically) to put them in chronological order, which you  can't do with either dd/mm/yy or with mm/dd/yy.


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## zoumzoum

Bonjour, 

mon professeur de l'an dernier nous a appris à écrire la date de cette façon: 
Tuesday, November 5th of 2013.
Cette année, le prof nous dit qu'il y a une erreur et qu'on ne doit pas mettre "of" avant l'année.

Qui a raison, merci pour vos réponses?


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## Franco-filly

To me "of" before the year seems strange. I think the BE way would be Tuesday, the 5th of November 2013


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## moustic

Franco-filly said:


> I think the BE way would be Tuesday, the 5th of November 2013



I *say* this but I write:  Tuesday 5th November 2013


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## zoumzoum

Ok, thank you for your replies. So, nobody has ever heard of 'Tuesday, November 5th *of *2013', do you think it's ok to write such a thing anywhere in the Englsih speaking world?


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## wildan1

> Un autre membre pourra peut-être nous dire si c'est de l'anglais américain...


No, it's not.

AE non-computer written format is _Tuesday, November 5, 2013. _Orally, however, in this format the day, _5, 6, 7, 31 etc., _is always pronounced _fifth (sixth, seventh, thirty-first, etc): "November fifth, two thousand thirteen"._

The abbreviated version is written_ 11/5/13_ and pronounced _"eleven-five-thirteen"._


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## susanna76

From reading this thread it appears that in AmE you never say "November twelve." Is that so? I've read somewhere else that is it, in fact, a possibility -- as we have seen with "September eleven." What do you think?


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## Kelly B

November twelve sounds ok to me in AmE, though it's true that I'd be more likely to say November twelfth (however difficult that consonant combination is to spit out. )


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## moicestjoe

susanna76 said:


> From reading this thread it appears that in AmE you never say "November twelve." Is that so? I've read somewhere else that is it, in fact, a possibility -- as we have seen with "September eleven." What do you think?



"November twelfth" and "September eleventh" would be far more common. The abbreviated version ("November twelve") sounds more technical. It might be used on a business call when setting calendar appointments, for example.


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## AnythingGoes

moicestjoe said:


> "November twelfth" and "September eleventh" would be far more common. The abbreviated version ("November twelve") sounds more technical. It might be used on a business call when setting calendar appointments, for example.


 _November twelve_ would really stick out if I heard it.


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