# Anglosas



## LilianaB

I was just wondering what the proper use of this word in Polish is, these day? Can it ever refer to an English-speaker from any of the English-speaking countries. No special context, other than the word being used to refer to an English speaking person from one of those countries. I am interested in all the correct uses of the word.


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## dreamlike

It's virtually non-existent (except perhaps when used humorously) outside history books. Obviously, it could not be used jocularly in reference to every speaker of English from _any_ of the English-speaking countries. 
Why would we refer to an American as 'Anglosas'? It would make little sense.


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## LilianaB

Well -- I have seen it quite often used by some aspiring linguists. How would people refer these days to English-speaking people from England, the United States or Australia, for example? (in Polish)


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## dreamlike

There's no generic term I could use, other than 'anglojęzyczni', I think. If I heard someone refer to the Americans or Aussies as 'anglosasi', I'd be astounded  I'd probably think that the person is not very knowledgeable in history. Historically, the word cannot be used this way, but maybe those aspiring linguists gave the word a new meaning...

*edit:* Here's what I found on wikipedia:


> Outside Anglophone countries, both in Europe and in the rest of the world, the term "Anglo-Saxon" and its direct translations are used to refer to the Anglophone peoples and societies of Britain, the United States, and other countries such asAustralia, Canada and New Zealand – areas which are sometimes referred to as the Anglosphere.




I can't say I've noticed this in Polish, but I might not be up to date on the matter.


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## LilianaB

Thank you, Dreamlike. I was really confused how this word is used these days.


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## R.O

I've always used this term for all English-speaking people.


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## dreamlike

R.O said:


> I've always used this term for all English-speaking people.


That's curious! I'm looking forward to reading more opinions. It would seem that I was unfamiliar with that usage.


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## marco_2

I also agree with Wikipedia definition that _"__(...) Współcześnie termin "Anglosasi" używany bywa także /.../ na oznaczenie wspólnoty narodów, wywodzących się od plemion angielskich (np. Anglików, Australijczyków i Amerykanów)". _


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## LeTasmanien

It would be entirely incorrect to describe Australians as Anglo-Saxon.
Australia is a multi-cultural society with a large proportion of its population being either Europeans or direct descendents of Europeans.
For example, there are many people with a Celtic background (like me!).
The same goes for the USA.
The term Anglo-Saxon should only be used when referring to the English.


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## dreamlike

LeTasmanien said:


> The term Anglo-Saxon should only be used when referring to the English.



I wholeheartedly agree with you, but whether we like it or not, some people are pretty lax about it, as shown by wikipedia entries and some posts in this thread. I think there's nothing for us to do but to accept it. Language at its finest...


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## R.O

It would also be entirely incorrect to describe a situation when two planes almost collide as a near miss. Nonetheless, that's what people call it, and not for example a... near hit.


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## kknd

R.O said:


> I've always used this term for all English-speaking people.


i guess anglophone would be much more precise for that… (you also seem to speak english but you're not an anglo-saxon.)


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## LeTasmanien

dreamlike said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you, but whether we like it or not, some people are pretty lax about it, as shown by wikipedia entries and some posts in this thread. I think there's nothing for us to do but to accept it. Language at its finest...



Some care should be taken when quoting from Wiki.
The extract...
"Outside Anglophone countries, both in Europe and in the rest of the  world, the term "Anglo-Saxon" and its direct translations are used to  refer to the Anglophone peoples and societies of Britain, the United  States, and other countries such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand...."
is a part of the section on "Contemporary Meanings" and you can see there that Wiki is asking for citations to support the assertions.

I am sure that most of the of Australians that I know would probably think it silly/funny to described as Anglo-Saxons. Quite probably some would take offence!


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## LilianaB

Well, I personally haven't heard, for the last twenty five years at least, Anglo-Saxon being used in reference to English speaking people (from English speaking countries). I have heard it, or rather saw it more often in the written form, used by many Polish people as _Anglosas_, _anglosaski_ -- referring to the inhabitants of Britain, the United States and other English-speaking countries. For me an Anglo-Saxon is either a member of the Anglo-Saxon community of the 8th-11th centuries (roughly) or a speaker of Anglo-Saxon.


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## R.O

kknd said:


> i guess anglophone would be much more precise for that… (you also seem to speak english but you're not an anglo-saxon.)


I have never ever in my entire life heard the word anglophone used in Polish. 

Kknd, of course I'm not an Anglo-Saxon because I wasn't born in an English-speaking country (I'm Slavic, just for the record). That should be obvious, shouldn't it? I hope you didn't really understand my statement in this way. Or did you?


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## LilianaB

No, it might not be obvious, R.O -- ethnicity and language sometimes don't have anything in common. This is why some English-speaking people may object to being called _Anglosasi_. There are many Italian-Americans, Native American English speakers, Irish people, and many others in all the English speaking countries.


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## R.O

In the light of Dreamlike's post and the definition from Wiki I don't see how it might not be obvious that it refers to people who speak English as a result of having been born in an English-speaking country and for whom English is the first language.


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## LilianaB

I was referring to something else, but never mind. So you believe this is a standard usage in Polish -- to refer to English-speaking people from English-speaking countries as Anglosasi?  Would it also be used in books and newspaper articles the same way?


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## dreamlike

I, in turn, can't see why would we refer to English-speaking people of, say, mixed ethinicity as 'anglo-saxons'. Historically, this makes little, if any, sense -- and, as suggested by LeTasmenien, it might by frowned upon by some of the anglophones themselves.  Speaking of which, I much prefer the word 'anglophones', but I can't say it's very widespread, either. 

Liliana, I wouldn't say it's a standard usage, it's the first time I hear about it, thanks to this very thread, but let's wait for more opinions.


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## R.O

LilianaB said:


> I was referring to something else, but never mind. So you believe this is a standard usage in Polish -- to refer to English-speaking people from English-speaking countries as Anglosasi?


Yes, to my experience it is.


LilianaB said:


> Would it also be used in books and newspaper articles the same way?


I should think so. I'll try to do some research on it later.

Dreamlike, maybe that's why I have only heard it in Poland, not abroad. 

EDIT: Just to revise my standpoint on the topic, the noun _anglosas _has been mentioned here a few times... As a matter of fact, I don't think I've heard the noun used too often. It's the adjective _anglosaski_ that I myself use and hear very often used to refer to English-speaking countries, especially the UK and the US.


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## Thomas1

I agree that in Polish the term is used in reference to Englsh speaking countries; however, not always (the historical meaning of it apart).

There is one wording that comes to mind and is a point in case here: kraje anglosaskie. It is used often enough in media that it should be known by the average Polish. Hearing it, I mainly think of three counries: the UK, the US and Australia. If I think more New Zeland comes to mind and vacilate about Canada.This may well be a personal thing, though.

When I hear "Anglosas", the first thing I think of are the English, however. And I can't quite wrap my head around a wider scope of this term, but then again it might be a personal matter.


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## Ben Jamin

The fact that a term is based on a false assumption or an  incorrect theory is almost never an obstacle for using it by general public or even by scholars. Take for example the word "turkey".


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## dreamlike

Not so long ago Mitt Romney has been taken to task for speaking of an 'Anglo-saxon heritage' shared by the US and the UK. John Swaine made an interesting point about it in this article, similar to that of LeTasmanien from post #9.



> More importantly, the adviser has a terrible way with words. The emphasis upon the “Anglo-Saxon” identity of the Atlantic alliance is out of date. Both countries are more multicultural than ever before, and both have forged alliances with countries that are decidedly un-Anglo-Saxon: the US is part of a trading bloc with Mexico and the UK is trapped in the engine room of the EU Titanic.



Clearly, when using the word 'anglo-saxon', be it a verb or a noun, caution is advised.


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## LeTasmanien

Ben Jamin said:


> The fact that a term is based on a false assumption or an  incorrect theory is almost never an obstacle for using it by general public or even by scholars.



Well put.


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## LilianaB

dreamlike said:


> Not so long ago Mitt Romney has been taken to task for speaking of an 'Anglo-saxon heritage' shared by the US and the UK. John Swaine made an interesting point about it in this article, similar to that of LeTasmanien from post #9.



Well heritage, perhaps -- this is how the English language started after all. It is used in a different way in Polish, though -- the way I keep hearing it: it just means a person from Great Britain or the US --  this is why I was surprised.


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## Thomas1

Just for the record: 


> Anglosas książk. «Brytyjczyk lub Amerykanin brytyjskiego pochodzenia»
> Dubisz, S., _Uniwersalny słownik języka polskiego_, PWN, 2003
> 
> anglosaski ‹anglo- + saski› książk. «odnoszący się do cywilizacji i narodów brytyjskich»
> Kultura anglosaska.
> Społeczeństwo anglosaskie.
> Kraje anglosaskie «kraje anglojęzyczne, zwłaszcza Wielka Brytania i Stany Zjednoczone»
> Ibidem.


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## kknd

R.O said:


> I have never ever in my entire life heard the word anglophone used in Polish.



just for the record—it's _anglofon_.


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## R.O

That's what I meant.


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## Ben Jamin

kknd said:


> just for the record—it's _anglofon_.



I haven´t heard it either.
Anglosas about the British and the US citizens as a collecive term has been used, though not extensively, mostly colloquial.


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## dreamlike

Ben Jamin said:


> I haven´t heard it either.



Well, the same is true for me, and I'd be interested to know if it's used in, for example, academic writing. The only instances of this word in Polish, judging by Google results, are dictionary entries.. a Polish version of Google nGram would come in handy here...


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## Mikelt

Well, we can't deny that word "Anglosas" is lexically correct, however, not only is it very rarely used, but its singular form is quite uncommon and it's present more often as plural "Anglosasi". That's how I see it.


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## LilianaB

What do you mean by lexically correct, Miklet? Would you refer to Eddie Murphy as _Anglosas_, for example? So what does the word mean in fact in Polish? This word is used differently in Polish than its English equivalent (or alleged equivalent), I think. In English one of the meanings _is a member of the Anglo-Saxon culture, or English culture_, but no-one call any particular individuals, inhabitants of the 21st world _Anglo-Saxons_.


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## Mikelt

LilianaB said:


> What do you mean by lexically correct, Miklet? Would you refer to Eddie Murphy as Anglosas, for example? So what does the word mean in fact in Polish? This word is used differently in Polish than its English equivalent (or alleged equivalent), I think.


I mean this word exists in language, but the frequency of its use towards the natives of English-speaking countries is low. I wouldn't call him Anglosas, because I just don't use this word in this context, although I accept the fact it can be used in that way.



LilianaB said:


> I think. In English one of the meanings is a member of the Anglo-Saxon culture, or English culture, but no-one call any particular individuals, inhabitants of the 21st world Anglo-Saxons.


Historically, term _Anglosasi _in Polish describes the tribes which settled in the British isles, so this meaning seems to be very common with its English equivalent.


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## LilianaB

Thank you.


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## Mikelt

I wish we had some linguist-historian here because I don't consider myself as an authority in these fields


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## LilianaB

Yes, someone like a devoted Polish philologist would be great, from time to time.


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