# Norwegian: Fire



## Grefsen

While searching for a translation for the English word "fire" I've come across more than a half dozen different Norwegian words and suspect that there are probably even more.  

Here's the definition of the English noun "fire" that I'd like a translation for:

"combustion or burning, in which substances combine chemically with oxygen from the air and typically give out bright light, heat, and smoke."

If I wanted to write the following sentence _på norsk_, would *brann* be the best _norsk ord_ to use for "fire"?

The house was destroyed by fire.

Huset ble ødelagt av *brann*.

På forhånd takk og godt nyttår!


----------



## Ben Jamin

Grefsen said:


> While searching for a translation for the English word "fire" I've come across more than a half dozen different Norwegian words and suspect that there are probably even more.
> 
> Here's the definition of the English noun "fire" that I'd like a translation for:
> 
> "combustion or burning, in which substances combine chemically with oxygen from the air and typically give out bright light, heat, and smoke."
> 
> If I wanted to write the following sentence _på norsk_, would *brann* be the best _norsk ord_ to use for "fire"?
> 
> The house was destroyed by fire.
> 
> Huset ble ødelagt av *brann*.
> 
> På forhånd takk og godt nyttår!


As you have noticed yourself Norwegian has many words that translate the English word "fire", which actually covers many different concepts.
In this case the most correct translation seems to be either "forbrenning" (a technical or scholarly word) or "ild" (colloquial). 
It will be possible to give a more precise answer if you supply a context.
"Brann" means usually a disaster in which *fire *consumes goods and property (compare French "incendie").


----------



## sjiraff

Yeah brann seems to be like the disaster thing as Benjamin said, and it's used in things like "brannsår" or "huset er i brann". But I'm wondering, what exactly is the difference between ild and fyr (not as a lighthouse, et fyr)? I know you can say "å sette fyr på noe" but I'm not sure if you can say the same with ild?

Godt nyttår alle sammen!
happy new year everyone!


----------



## bicontinental

Ben Jamin said:


> "Brann" means usually a disaster in which *fire *consumes goods and property (compare French "incendie").



Happy New Year 

But this definition would seem to fit the OP perfectly, don´t you think? ("The house was destroyed by fire") 
Similar examples from a quick google search:

14 *hus* i Munkegata og Enkeltskillingsveita *ble ødelagt av brann*.
...et område sør for Vår Frue kirke blir *ødelagt av brann
*Et kvartal i Kvadraturen med 12-13 *hus ødelagt av brann

*etc.

Bic.


----------



## Grefsen

Ben Jamin said:


> As you have noticed yourself Norwegian has many words that translate the English word "fire", which actually covers many different concepts.
> In this case the most correct translation seems to be either "forbrenning" (a technical or scholarly word) or "ild" (colloquial).


Tusen takk for svaret ditt *Ben Jamin! * 

Actually f_orbrenning_ wasn't one of the words I came across while searching for a translation for "fire." Here are some of the English translations I did find for f_orbrenning:_
burn, burning, combustion, and incineration.


I think it would be most helpful for me to understand when it is appropriate to use the Norwegian words _ild, brann, og fyr_ to mean fire.



Ben Jamin said:


> It will be possible to give a more precise answer if you supply a context.
> 
> "Brann" means usually a disaster in which *fire *consumes goods and property (compare French "incendie").urn, burning, combustion, and incineratio


I was hoping that the example sentence I gave would supply enough context, but perhaps not.  The destruction of a house is of course a disaster to those who lost their house and all of their property, so I'm wondering if it needs to be an even worse fire that destroys several homes or perhaps an entire apartment building before you would use the word _brann?_


----------



## Grefsen

bicontinental said:


> Happy New Year


Godt Nyttår *bicontinental!*  

Beklager! I didn't see your reply until after I had finished writing my previous post.   



bicontinental said:


> But this definition would seem to fit the OP perfectly, don´t you think? ("The house was destroyed by fire")
> Similar examples from a quick google search:
> 
> 14 *hus* i Munkegata og Enkeltskillingsveita *ble ødelagt av brann*.
> ...et område sør for Vår Frue kirke blir *ødelagt av brann
> *Et kvartal i Kvadraturen med 12-13 *hus ødelagt av brann
> 
> *etc.
> 
> Bic.


Perhaps the difference is that in the examples you are citing there were as many as 14 houses destroyed compared to only a single house in my example.  


sjiraff said:


> Yeah brann seems to be like the disaster thing as Benjamin said, and it's used in things like "brannsår" or "huset er i brann".


Also *sjiraff* mentions _brannsår (_burn injury) so I'm wondering if the use of _brann_ is reserved for situations when multiple structures are destroyed and/or there are injuries and perhaps even deaths caused by the fire. 



sjiraff said:


> But I'm wondering, what exactly is the difference between _ild _and _fyr_ (not as a lighthouse, _et fyr_)? I know you can say "_å sette fyr på noe_" but I'm not sure if you can say the same with _ild_?


I would also like to know this too since several of the _engelsk-norsk_ dictionaries that I checked gave, _brann, ild og fyr _as possible translations for "fire." 



sjiraff said:


> Godt nyttår alle sammen!


Godt nyttår til deg også *sjiraff!* 
Jeg setter pris på alle de gode innlegg du har skrevet i løpet av det siste året.


----------



## sjiraff

Grefsen said:


> Godt nyttår til deg også *sjiraff!*
> Jeg setter pris på alle de gode innlegg du har skrevet i løpet av det siste året.


I like måte Grefsen!


----------



## Ben Jamin

Grefsen said:


> Tusen takk for svaret ditt *Ben Jamin! *
> 
> Actually f_orbrenning_ wasn't one of the words I came across while searching for a translation for "fire." Here are some of the English translations I did find for f_orbrenning:_
> burn, burning, combustion, and incineration.
> 
> 
> I think it would be most helpful for me to understand when it is appropriate to use the Norwegian words _ild, brann, og fyr_ to mean fire.
> I was hoping that the example sentence I gave would supply enough context, but perhaps not.  The destruction of a house is of course a disaster to those who lost their house and all of their property, so I'm wondering if it needs to be an even worse
> fire that destroys several homes or perhaps an entire apartment building before you would use the word _brann?_



The word "brann" means actually a unwanted and often uncontrolled burning of anything, and of any size. You can have a "brann" in a casserole while cooking with much fat, and you have a "brann" when a whole city is on fire. The literal/original meaning of the word is "burning"/"fire", but in contemporary Scandinavian has narrowed the meaning 
to the definition above. That's why "brannsår" means "a wound caused by fire", not only by "brann" in the "incendie" meaning.
I used "forbrenning" to translate your definition of the chemical process, whose scholarly name in English is "combustion", but the colloquial name is just "fire" in English" and "ild" in Norwegian. Interestingly, the formal/old fashioned Norwegian word for "incendie" is "ildebrann", which is a duplication of the meaning (ild and brann both meaning the same).
"Fyr" which is a cognate of "fire" (and Greek "pyr") has a narrowed use in Norwegian nowadays. It can mean the fire 
lit on elevated places to guide ships in old times, now "a lighthouse". It can also mean a fire to lit up a cigarette. The verb "å fyre" can mean: to lit a fire, to heat with a fuel, or to shoot a firearm.


By the way, English lacks an important word to disinguish between "ild" and "brann". I had too use a French word as an intermediary.


----------



## raumar

We may need one more Norwegian translation of "fire" to make this complete: *bål*. 

_Et bål_ is nice and under control, for example a camp fire or a bonfire. 

If a fire is out of control, it becomes _en brann_ - as Ben Jamin has explained.



Grefsen said:


> If I wanted to write the following sentence _på norsk_, would *brann* be the best _norsk ord_ to use for "fire"?
> The house was destroyed by fire.
> Huset ble ødelagt av *brann*.



So the answer to Grefsen's question is yes - that's correct. Alternatively: _Huset ble ødelagt i en brann_ (... in a fire).

_Ild_ is often used in a more abstract sense than _bål_ and _brann_. For example, as one of the elements water, earth, wind and fire - here it must be _ild_. When _ild_ is used in a more concrete way, the translation is sometimes "flame" rather than "fire". For example _den olympiske ild_ - "the Olympic flame".

Ben Jamin has explained some of the uses of _fyr_. In addition, it is much used in some expressions, such as _sette fyr på_ "set on fire" and _ta fyr_ "catch fire". But if you see something  burning, you can't call it a _fyr_ - it has to be _en brann_, _en ild_ or _et bål_. Or _en flamme_.



sjiraff said:


> I know you can say "å sette fyr på noe" but I'm not sure if you can say the same with ild?



The usual expression is _sette fyr på_. You can also say _sette ild på_, but that sounds more formal or old-fashioned (if you google "sette ild på", you'll see that many of the hits are Bible texts).

Godt nytt år til dere også!


----------



## AutumnOwl

raumar said:


> The usual expression is _sette fyr på_. You can also say _sette ild på_, but that sounds more formal or old-fashioned (if you google "sette ild på", you'll see that many of the hits are Bible texts).


As Swedish also has the words _eld, fyr, bål _and_ brand_, so how would you say in Norwegian: _Pojken tände en eld i den öppna spisen_.


----------



## Grefsen

sjiraff said:


> I like måte Grefsen!


Tusen takk! Det var veldig snilt av deg. 




Ben Jamin said:


> The word "brann" means actually a*n* unwanted and often uncontrolled burning of anything, and of any size. You can have a "brann" in a casserole while cooking with *(too)* much fat, and you have a "brann" when a whole city is on fire.


Thank you for this very good explanation of the meaning of the word _brann_. 



Ben Jamin said:


> The literal/original meaning of the word is "burning"/"fire", but in contemporary Scandinavian has narrowed the meaning
> to the definition above. That's why "brannsår" means "a wound caused by fire", not only by "brann" in the "incendie" meaning.


Now it makes sense to me why the Norwegian word for a fire engine is _brannbil_ and for a fireman it's _brannmann_.


----------



## raumar

AutumnOwl said:


> As Swedish also has the words _eld, fyr, bål _and_ brand_, so how would you say in Norwegian: _Pojken tände en eld i den öppna spisen_.



I suppose this would be "The boy lit a fire in the fireplace" in English? The most natural way to express this in Norwegian would be without the noun "fire": 

_Gutten tente opp i peisen._, or
_Gutten fyrte opp i peisen.
_
There are other alternatives, such as: 

_Gutten gjorde opp ild i peisen. _
(without the article - _ild _is uncountable here).

A direct translation of your Swedish text would not work. "_Å tenne en ild_" is mainly used figuratively, and would be too pompous for this context.

If the question is which translation of "fire" Norwegians would use to describe a fire in a fireplace, both "_bål_" and "_ild_" can be used. I would prefer "_bål_", but it is possible to say both "_et peisbål_" and "_en peisild_".


----------



## Grefsen

raumar said:


> Godt nytt år til dere også!


Godt nytt år *raumar!*  

Jeg setter pris på alt av nyttig informasjon du har skrevet om de norske ordene bål, ild, og fyr.   

Tusen takk for det! 



raumar said:


> I suppose this would be "The boy lit a fire in the fireplace" in English?


I just thought I would add that this English translation sounds very natural to me.


raumar said:


> The most natural way to express this in Norwegian would be without the noun "fire":
> 
> _Gutten tente opp i peisen._, or
> _Gutten fyrte opp i peisen._


I just looked up the verbs "_å tenne_" and "_å fyre"  _in the Lexin and Tritrans online dictionaries and here are the translations I found:

_tenne_:  ignite, light, strike, kindle, & turn on

_fyre_: light a fire, fire up

Would you please explain a little more about why _opp_ is used in your translations?

På forhånd takk!


----------



## raumar

Grefsen said:


> I just looked up the verbs "_å tenne_" and "_å fyre"  _in the Lexin and Tritrans online dictionaries and here are the translations I found:
> 
> _tenne_:  ignite, light, strike, kindle, & turn on
> _fyre_: light a fire, fire up
> 
> Would you please explain a little more about why _opp_ is used in your translations?



I can at least try. Your dictionary translation of "_fyre_" seems to be inaccurate, at least when we talk about fires in fireplaces and stoves. "_Fyre opp i ovnen_" means to light a fire in the stove, "_fyre i ovnen_" without "_opp_" means to have/keep a fire burning in the stove. For example: "_Jeg har fyrt i ovnen i hele dag_."

You can also use "fyre" to describe the kind of heating you have in your home. For example "_Jeg fyrer med strøm, men i tillegg fyrer jeg med ved når det er kaldt_".

Regarding _tenne_ vs _tenne opp._ In this case your dictionary translation is correct. Still, we say "_tenne et bål_", but "_tenne opp i peisen_". I don't know why, maybe some others can explain it?


----------



## bicontinental

raumar said:


> Regarding _tenne_ vs _tenne opp._ In this case your dictionary translation is correct. Still, we say "_tenne et bål_", but "_tenne opp i peisen_". I don't know why, maybe some others can explain it?



This verbal phrase is identical to the Danish _tænde op i pejsen_, hence my comment 
I just see this as an example of how some combined verbs (sammensatte verber in Danish) have different meanings depending on the position of the preposition e.g. tænde *op* vs. *op*tænde.
_Optænde_ is used only in figurative speech in contemporary Danish and means to elicit or evoke something e.g. a feeling of anger; more archaic definitions, however, include _antænde, tænde ild i_ (to light a fire). http://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?query=optænde, like the modern meaning of the intransitive form “tænde op.” Another preposition may be added (tænde op i pejsen, tænde op under kedlen)
In some cases the meaning of combined verbs may change completely if the preposition is separated from the verb , fx. *om*bringe (to kill) vs. bringe *om* (to deliver...mail).
More about this here (article in Danish): http://sproget.dk/raad-og-regler/ar...test,fastedes,fasteste,fastede,faste,fasteres

Bic.

Edit: _Tænde et bål_ is of course a transitive verbal construction, to light a fire.


----------



## raumar

Thanks for the information, Bic!

Let me just add that Norwegian does not have the verb "opptenne". "Opp" is only placed before "tenne" in the noun "opptenningsved" (kindling wood), but that is of course a very different meaning from the Danish "optænde".


----------



## Grefsen

raumar said:


> I can at least try. Your dictionary translation of "_fyre_" seems to be inaccurate, at least when we talk about fires in fireplaces and stoves. "_Fyre opp i ovnen_" means to light a fire in the stove, "_fyre i ovnen_" without "_opp_" means to have/keep a fire burning in the stove. For example: "_Jeg har fyrt i ovnen i hele dag_."


Tusen takk for forklaringen! 


bicontinental said:


> _Optænde_ is used only in figurative speech in contemporary Danish and means to elicit or evoke something e.g. a feeling of anger; more archaic definitions, however, include _*antænde*, tænde ild i_ (to light a fire).


While searching for a translation for the verb _å tenne_, I also came across the verb _å antenne_ in the Lexin dictionary: 


> antenne
> 
> verb
> 
> engelsk: _ignite, set fire to_
> 
> bøyning    [antenner antente antent]
> 
> forklaring:  sette fyr på
> 
> eksempel:  antenne en lunte
> 
> engelsk:  _light a fuse_


----------



## raumar

Grefsen said:


> While searching for a translation for the verb _å tenne_, I also came across the verb _å antenne_ in the Lexin dictionary:



That's right, Grefsen. But "antenne" is not much used, and most people would probably use "tenne" instead.


----------

