# 図星



## Axel91

I don't understand the meaning of these two sentences. Could someone help me out? 

田中さん:　まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
三浦さん:　なんだ図星なんじゃない


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## Flaminius

図星 is a bull's eye.  It is usually used in the figurative sense, and the literal sense is pretty much lost.


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## Axel91

Flaminius said:


> 図星 is a bull's eye.  It is usually used in the figurative sense, and the literal sense is pretty much lost.


Thank you for your reply! Sorry, maybe I was not clear, but I meant that I don't know how to translate 図星 in these two sentences: 
田中さん:　まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
三浦さん:　なんだ図星なんじゃない


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## Flaminius

I mean by the figurative sense of bull's eye that a remark expresses the truth in a very concise sentence.  Your two sentences lack context and background information, so I leave it to you to translate them based on what I have just explained.


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## Axel91

Flaminius said:


> I mean by the figurative sense of bull's eye that a remark expresses the truth in a very concise sentence.  Your two sentences lack context and background information, so I leave it to you to translate them based on what I have just explained.


well, that's pretty much all the contex. I thought it could have been transalted as: 
1) Tanaka-san that's only the truth.
2)  I mean, isn't it the truth?


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## Flaminius

Oh, sorry.  If these are all you have, it is difficult to know what it meant here.  I am at a loss why Tanaka appears twice in your first sentence, but what it basically means is that the speaker urges Tanaka to admit something, and that this something is said by someone other than Tanaka.  It may be the speaker themselves or someone else, but we don't know from this sentence.

The second sentence too has the same issue.  A remark said by someone exposes the truth, but we don't know who said it from the context.

図星 here is short for 図星だ.  Bidiyuk (on point) is the word I like, but it's too Yiddish.


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## Axel91

Flaminius said:


> Oh, sorry.  If these are all you have, it is difficult to know what it meant here.  I am at a loss why Tanaka appears twice in your first sentence, but what it basically means is that the speaker urges Tanaka to admit something, and that this something is said by someone other than Tanaka.  It may be the speaker themselves or someone else, but we don't know from this sentence.
> 
> The second sentence too has the same issue.  A remark said by someone exposes the truth, but we don't know who said it from the context.
> 
> 図星 here is short for 図星だ.  Bidiyuk (on point) is the word I like, but it's too Yiddish.


Sorry! it's not tanaka speaking in the first sentence.... but I get the meaning!


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## gengo

Axel91 said:


> 田中さん:　まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
> 三浦さん:　なんだ図星なんじゃない





Axel91 said:


> Sorry! it's not tanaka speaking in the first sentence



Does that mean that you wrote the wrong name for the speaker on the first line?

Also, that small つ after the name seems to be missing something, such as a て.

My guess, without sufficient context to be certain, is:

1: Come on now, Tanaka did indeed hit the mark.
Miura: What? He didn't hit the mark at all!


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## Axel91

gengo said:


> Does that mean that you wrote the wrong name for the speaker on the first line?
> 
> Also, that small つ after the name seems to be missing something, such as a て.
> 
> My guess, without sufficient context to be certain, is:
> 
> 1: Come on now, Tanaka did indeed hit the mark.
> Miura: What? He didn't hit the mark at all!


Yes, I wrote the wrong name  Thank you so much!


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## Flaminius

Ooops, "hit the mark" is the right expression.

まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
There is no direct mention as to who hit the mark, but Tanaka is probably not the one.  They are addressed by the speaker:
Well, Tanaka, it was sort of on the mark.  [This is more an approximation than a translation.]

A small つ at the end of a word indicates a freely-occurring glottal stop.  Here the glottal is required after /n/.  This would be a tenuous articulation, but the actual pronunciation substitutes a full nasal consonant with a nasalised vowel like so: [sãʔ]

The glottal stop is a key feature of appellation.


なんだ図星なんじゃない
It DID, then, hit the mark.

A negative statement should be something like this (all of them with a high pitch on な):
図星じゃないじゃない
図星じゃないだろう
図星じゃないのか。


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## gengo

Flaminius said:


> Ooops, "hit the mark" is the right expression.



I think your "bull's eye" could also be used.  It wouldn't sound unnatural.



Flaminius said:


> なんだ図星なんじゃない
> It DID, then, hit the mark.



You are the native, but I interpret it differently, as a negative.  Without context, though, it's hard to say for sure, and you could be right.


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## Axel91

Flaminius said:


> Ooops, "hit the mark" is the right expression.
> 
> まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
> There is no direct mention as to who hit the mark, but Tanaka is probably not the one.  They are addressed by the speaker:
> Well, Tanaka, it was sort of on the mark.  [This is more an approximation than a translation.]
> 
> A small つ at the end of a word indicates a freely-occurring glottal stop.  Here the glottal is required after /n/.  This would be a tenuous articulation, but the actual pronunciation substitutes a full nasal consonant with a nasalised vowel like so: [sãʔ]
> 
> The glottal stop is a key feature of appellation.
> 
> 
> なんだ図星なんじゃない
> It DID, then, hit the mark.
> 
> A negative statement should be something like this (all of them with a high pitch on な):
> 図星じゃないじゃない
> 図星じゃないだろう
> 図星じゃないのか。


Thank you very much! Yes, I totally agree with you. My problem was translating it into my native language, but with a good explanation it was easier


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Axel91 said:


> 田中さんと三浦さんではない誰か:　まあまあ田中さんっ　図星と言えば図星ですから
> 三浦さん:　*なんだ図星なんじゃない*





gengo said:


> Miura: What? He didn't hit the mark at all!


This interpretation cannot be possible if 三浦さん is a native Japanese speaker.
I think no more context is needed to decide which interpretation is correct.

If you want to say,_ Miura: What? He didn't hit the mark at all!,_
it should be: 三浦さん：*いや*図星なん*か*じゃない.


Flaminius said:


> なんだ図星なんじゃない
> It DID, then, hit the mark.




It is 図星. <---- > It is NOT 図星.
図星なんじゃない <---- > 図星なんかじゃない
図星なんじゃない　 <---- > 　図星じゃないじゃない
図星じゃないか  <---- > 図星じゃないじゃないか
図星だろう  <---- > 図星じゃないだろう
図星なのか  <---- > 図星じゃないのか


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