# Norwegian: Farmer



## Grefsen

Prior to today the only Norwegian word I knew for farmer was _bonde.  _I just checked several Norwegian - English Dictionaries and learned that the compound words _gårdbruker _(farm + user) and l_andbruker_ (land + user) could also be used to mean farmer.  

In the following sentence could all three of these words be used to mean farmer?

Når min oldefar først emigrerte til USA, jobbet han som bonde/gårdbruker/landbruker i Montana.

_When my great-grandfather first immigrated to the U.S., he worked as a farmer in Montana.
_


----------



## frugihoyi

I think this is the order from most common to least commong:

bonde - landbruker - gårdbruker

I have actually never heard gårdbruker. But take this with a grain of salt as I am not Norwegian.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

"Gårdbruker" is the correct term, and per 2013 the more common term. It is widely used in media, and has also entered daily vocabulary. "Landbruker" is not used at all - however, the term "landbruk" is used for 'agriculture' (therefore, "landbruker" will be the somewhat odd 'agriculturalist')
"Bonde" is still used, but is an old-fashioned term. Actually, "bonde" represents one of the classes in the old agricultural society, the self-owning farmer, as opposed to peasant. In modern day Norway, "bonde" is only used for historical purposes, or by people who are not involved in the trade.
Among farmers, "gårdbruker" is considered the appropriate term.


----------



## frugihoyi

See how much I know; everything I said was the opposite of NorwegianNYC


----------



## Grefsen

NorwegianNYC said:


> "Gårdbruker" is the correct term, and per 2013 the more common term. It is widely used in media, and has also entered daily vocabulary.


Tusen takk for denne informasjonen om "gårdbruker." 


NorwegianNYC said:


> "Landbruker" is not used at all - however, the term "landbruk" is used for 'agriculture' (therefore, "landbruker" will be the somewhat odd 'agriculturalist').


Here's one English definition of agriculturalist:


> someone concerned with the science or art or business of cultivating the soil



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agriculturalist

This same link also had the following definition of agriculture:


> The science, art, and business of cultivating soil, producing crops, and raising livestock; farming.





NorwegianNYC said:


> "Bonde" is still used, but is an old-fashioned term. Actually, "bonde" represents one of the classes in the old agricultural society, the self-owning farmer, as opposed to peasant. In modern day Norway, "bonde" is only used for historical purposes, or by people who are not involved in the trade.


I've also heard *"bonde"* used by a few Norwegians in a derogatory manner  when they were referring to someone who is somewhat unsophisticated and/or lives in a small town or somewhere out in the countryside.



frugihoyi said:


> See how much I know; everything I said was the opposite of NorwegianNYC


That's okay. I still appreciate your willingness to help. 

Tusen takk for det!


----------



## raumar

I would describe the relationship between _bonde_ and _gårdbruker_ somewhat differently. I agree that most farmers probably would use _gårdbruker_ as their "official" title, for example when they are asked to state their occupation. But I would not really say that _bonde_ is old-fashioned, or not much used by the farmers themselves. 

For example, the Norwegian Farmers' Union is called _Norges Bondelag_, and Farmers' Market is _Bondens marked_ in Norwegian. It is true, as Grefsen mentions, that _bonde_ sometimes is used (by city people) in a derogatory manner. But that does not necessarily mean that the farmers themselves avoid the word _bonde _- as this newspaper article shows:
http://www.smp.no/incoming/article267244.ece

_Bonde_ is also often used in compound words. A sheep farmer is a _sauebonde_, not a "sauegårdbruker".


----------



## Grefsen

raumar said:


> I would describe the relationship between _bonde_ and _gårdbruker_ somewhat differently. I agree that most farmers probably would use _gårdbruker_ as their "official" title, for example when they are asked to state their occupation. But I would not really say that _bonde_ is old-fashioned, or not much used by the farmers themselves.


Tusen takk for det *raumar! *



raumar said:


> For example, the Norwegian Farmers' Union is called _Norges Bondelag_, and Farmers' Market is _Bondens marked_ in Norwegian.
> 
> _Bonde_ is also often used in compound words. A sheep farmer is a _sauebonde_, not a "sauegårdbruker".


Takk for de gode eksemplene.



raumar said:


> It is true, as Grefsen mentions, that _bonde_ sometimes is used (by city people) in a derogatory manner. But that does not necessarily mean that the farmers themselves avoid the word _bonde _- as this newspaper article shows:
> http://www.smp.no/incoming/article267244.ece


An English equivalent of this is "farm boy" which can be used in a derogatory manner when referring to someone who is unsophisticated or uneducated *OR* it can simply be used to refer to a young man who was raised on a farm.


----------



## Kadabrium

'bonde' is now almost solely used to signify someone of the old rural characteristics.
e.g. ''bondeord''=old-fashioned or fancy words used only by old farmers.


----------



## Claribelsofia

I agree with Raumar. "Bonde" is widely used. I guess "Gårdbruker" is the official title, but the colloquial use of this occupation is for sure "bonde". The norwegian farmer´s union has also made a very popular t-shirt where they have printed "bonde" in front as you can see here: http://www.bondelaget.no/nyhetsarkiv/ny-bonde-t-skjorte-article52064-3805.html. They are proud of their profession and this title, so it is not an old-fashioned word, but the colloquial form.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

*Gårdbruker* is not only the official term, but also the appropriate one. *Bonde* may be used, but is primarily used in three settings:
1) As an unofficial subdivision of _gårdbruker_, e.g. _kornbonde _(grain farmer), _sauebonde_ (sheep farmer), _grisebonde_ ( pig farmer)
2) In an historical context, and then mainly to distinguish a self-owning farmer (_bonde_) from a tenant farmer (_husmann_) and smallholder (_småbruker_)
3) Out of ignorance, and then again primarily by people who are not themselves associated with the industry.


----------



## raumar

Well, I am not quite sure about the appropriateness. It may be useful to take a look at the newspaper _Nationen_, which is associated with the industry and covers agriculture thoroughly. If you look at its website www.nationen.no , and search for the words "bonde" and "bønder", you will find many examples that does not fit into these categories. Here are some recent headlines:

* Bønder frykter at de må slakte flere dyr på grunn av fôrmangel
* Oppretter hjelpetelefon for bønder. Et nasjonalt bondenettverk oppretter nå en hjelpetelefon for bønder som sliter. - Bondeyrket er ensomt og tøft, sier en av initiativtakerne.
* Kun én av sju EU-bønder jobber fulltid i landbruket
* Sp-leder Liv Signe Navarsete advarer bøndene mot KrF og Venstre
* Studie knytter depresjon hos bønder til bruk av ugressmidler: Sjansen for at bønder som bruker ugressmidler vil bli behandlet for depresjon er mer enn dobbelt så stor som sjansen for at bønder som ikke bruker slike sprøytemidler vil bli det.
* Bonde fra Ringsaker anmeldt for skader på dyr under transport til slakteri. Mattilsynet har anmeldt en gårdbruker for at flere okser ble skadet under en transport fra gården til slakteriet. Bonden var ikke med på turen.

I agree that there are differences between the words _gårdbruker_ and _bonde_, but in practice, they are sometimes used almost interchangeably. Note, for example, how the newspaper alternates between _bonde_ and _gårdbruker_ in the last of these examples.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

raumar - absolutely! It is a commonly used term, but again - it is rarely used outside media and in colloquial speech


----------



## Ben Jamin

NorwegianNYC said:


> raumar - absolutely! It is a commonly used term, but again - it is rarely used outside media and in colloquial speech


I work in an urban environment, and the word "bonde" is used much more often than "gårdbruker". The latter is perceived as very formal, almost officialese.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

Well, "bonde" kind of sorts in the same category as "sekretær" and "flyvertinne". People may use these terms, but that does not make them correct. Nor is it officialese. The appropriate term is "gårdbruker", and people in the business will prefer this term, as "bonde" is often a pejorative. Nor is "bondegård" correct. It is called "gårdsbruk" (or just "bruk")


----------



## vestfoldlilja

I don’t think whether something is correct or officiate really matters here. What matters are which words are commonly used. I agree with what Raumar has said. Bondegård is widely used where I live, as is bonde. 

I also think perhaps it has something to do with size; hearing the word gårdsbruker I picture a large farm, with many (and bigger) buildings and animals, bondegård is, to me something on a smaller scale. 

And as not to forget landbruk vs. gårdsbruk; landbruk is used when you own grain fields and/or land with forests/wood and when this is your main source of income. They don’t hold animals. See this link: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landbruk (in Norwegian).


----------



## NorwegianNYC

But it is not the same thing! *Gårdsbruk* is a farm, whereas *landbruk* is agriculture as a field of science or occupation. In other words - gårdsbruk is a place, whereas landbruk is a sector or livelihood. And yes, both "bondegård" and "bonde" are in common use, but usage does not infer correctness. Terms like "doktor", "vaskekone" and "flyvertinne" are used all the time in Norwegian, but not by people engaged in the particular profession, nor are they the appropriate forms. In #10 above, I listed 3 settings where the term "bonde" is used, and may be considered the correct term. However, it is not to say that a farmer will be offended if you call him/her "bonde", but my point is that it is not the correct term.


----------



## flukså

NorwegianNYC said:


> Well, "bonde" kind of sorts in the same  category as "sekretær" and "flyvertinne". People may use these terms,  but that does not make them correct. Nor is it officialese. The  appropriate term is "gårdbruker", and people in the business will prefer  this term, as "bonde" is often a pejorative. Nor is "bondegård"  correct. It is called "gårdsbruk" (or just "bruk")



My dad is a farmer, and I always refer to him as *bonde*  (and he sure does himself, he have no negative connotations with the  word and he even have one of the aforementioned t-shirts that says  bonde. He might use gardbrukar (he uses nynorsk) at times though). 
I may say that he has "et gårdsbruk", I might even use the word agronom, but I  never call him "en gårdbruker". For me that just sounds weird. As I'm  fairly young and bonde is a natural part of my, and most of the people I  knows, vocabulary, I would not say that the word is old-fashioned, far  from it, to me *gårdbruker* _sounds_ more  old-fashioned (it might be different in other dialects). I rarely say  bondegård though, as a little sidenote, but that is still a widely used  term. 

Gårdbruker might be the official title, but I don't think  that's necessarily what the OP wanted to know (correct me if I'm wrong).  My impression is that bonde is the most widely used, and less formal  word for a farmer. You can also use gårdbruker and most people will  understand what you mean. Of the mentioned examples at the start of the  thread I would think landbruker is the least used.


Also I see  no problems with "sekretær" and "flyvertinne" by the way. They might  not be official job titles but they are perfectly correct _words_, for use in everyday speech. 
"Det  var en utrolig hyggelig flyvertinne på flygningen mellom Oslo og Bergen  i morges", using "kabinansatt" in that sentence for example would just  sound weird...


----------



## NorwegianNYC

I had a conversation with my (extended) family about this, and I do not disagree with you. _Bonde_ may or may not be a perfectly good words to use, and it absolutely sees a lot of use. However, it is a colloquialism, and as much as I both love and use colloquialisms, it is doubtful it is the appropriate term. As much as _farmer = bonde = gårdbruker/gardbruker_, the word bonde also carries negative connotations, as it in an urban setting is used as a slang term to denote something less sophisticated. Which is the reason I ask Norwegian learners to use the terms _gårdbruker_ and _gårdbruk_ instead.

Earlier, I mentioned "doktor", "vaskekone" and "flyvertinne" (to this I would like to add "kassadame"). These are all Norwegian colloquialisms, but are not the correct terms for the respective professions. In the US, we are all familiar with the _mailman_ and _store clerk/shop assistant_, but in official designations, one has to use _postal carrier_ and _sales associate_.

Again - I am not saying _bonde_ is incorrect, but if you were to learn one word in Norwegian that equates _farmer_, I would go with _gårdbruker_.


----------



## vestfoldlilja

I know they’re not the same (gårdsbruk/landbruk); that was my point. I apologize for being unclear. The original post asked if the two words (+bonde) could all be used to mean farmer, and I just wanted to make clear there was a distinction in Norwegian between bonde/gårdbruker and landbruker. 

I don’t agree that bonde carries negative connotations heavy enough to not use the word in everyday speech, if at all. I know it can be used as a negative expression, but so can everything these days if you add a swear word before or after.

In my experience it is the most commonly used word, and I agree with flukså that gårdsbruker sounds more old-fashioned than bonde. 

I use both gårdssbruk and bondegård, more often bondegård, or just gård. It depends on the sentence; like I would say somebody _driver et gårdsbruk_, but _har en bondegård_.


----------



## Ben Jamin

NorwegianNYC said:


> I had a conversation with my (extended) family about this, and I do not disagree with you. _Bonde_ may or may not be a perfectly good words to use, and it absolutely sees a lot of use. However, it is a colloquialism, and as much as I both love and use colloquialisms, it is doubtful it is the appropriate term. As much as _farmer = bonde = gårdbruker/gardbruker_, the word bonde also carries negative connotations, as it in an urban setting is used as a slang term to denote something less sophisticated. Which is the reason I ask Norwegian learners to use the terms _gårdbruker_ and _gårdbruk_ instead.
> 
> Earlier, I mentioned "doktor", "vaskekone" and "flyvertinne" (to this I would like to add "kassadame"). These are all Norwegian colloquialisms, but are not the correct terms for the respective professions. In the US, we are all familiar with the _mailman_ and _store clerk/shop assistant_, but in official designations, one has to use _postal carrier_ and _sales associate_.
> 
> Again - I am not saying _bonde_ is incorrect, but if you were to learn one word in Norwegian that equates _farmer_, I would go with _gårdbruker_.



For me "sales assistant" and "mailman" are correct English forms, while "postal carrier" and sales associate" are politically correct officialese terms, just like "rengjøringskonsulent" for a cleaning person is in Norwegian.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

Ben Jamin said:


> For me "sales assistant" and "mailman" are correct English forms, while "postal carrier" and sales associate" are politically correct officialese terms, just like "rengjøringskonsulent" for a cleaning person is in Norwegian.


And I do not disagree, and I often find political correctness to go wild in its effort to relabel reality, but if you were to teach someone one term for the profession - would it be "mailman" or "postal carrier"? Would you prefer to tell them it is "fireman", "policeman" and "air stewardess", or "fire fighter", "police officer" and "flight attendant"?

It is the same in Norwegian (although PC is not as rampant there) - I would personally prefer to tell a young woman it is called "salgsmedarbeider" rather than "ekspeditrise/kassadame", and that in Norway you go see "lege", not "doktor" (since you in Norway need a doctorate to call yourself 'doktor', not just being a physician). And the ones doing the floors in your office building are part of "rengjøringspersonale", not "vaskehjelp".

When it (finally...) comes to "bonde", I would suggest "gårdbruker", because it is neutral. There is nothing wrong with "bonde", but we have all heard it used pejoratively (or spend 5 minutes with the Vålerenga supporters at a game...), and the terms "bondelandet" and "bondsk" are used about something, quaint, rustic and unsophisticated.


----------



## Claribelsofia

I agree with NorwegianNYC that in general it is best to teach the political correct term. That is, I would also prefer "fire fighter" instead of "fireman". However, in some cases the colloquial form is more natural and in my opinion "more correct" norwegian. E.g. "Jeg skal spørre kassadamen/damen i kassa om å veksle" vs " Jeg skal spørre salgsmedarbeideren om å veksle". I would consider the latter phrase as "artificial" and not "correct norwegian". In many situations both terms are applicable, however in some cases one term is more correct than the other (as with all languages  ). When learning a language I personally would like to learn the colloquial form. I often find that the "school book" form is unnatural and pompous. With reference to the above-mentioned examples I would most definitely use "vaskehjelp/vaskedame/vaskemann", "kassadame" and "bonde", not "rengjøringspersonale", "salgsmedarbeider" or "gårdbruker" unless I was writing a contract, an instruction manual or similar.  When it comes to "bonde", I do not have any negative associations with this word unless "knøl" ("bondeknøl") is added. However, this word is not much used anymore. These days, I think "bonde" has a more positive sound, away from city stress etc. The dream of "bonderomantikk" and "småbruk"(small farm).


----------



## Ben Jamin

NorwegianNYC said:


> And I do not disagree, and I often find political correctness to go wild in its effort to relabel reality, but if you were to teach someone one term for the profession - would it be "mailman" or "postal carrier"? Would you prefer to tell them it is "fireman", "policeman" and "air stewardess", or "fire fighter", "police officer" and "flight attendant"?
> 
> It is the same in Norwegian (although PC is not as rampant there) - I would personally prefer to tell a young woman it is called "salgsmedarbeider" rather than "ekspeditrise/kassadame", and that in Norway you go see "lege", not "doktor" (since you in Norway need a doctorate to call yourself 'doktor', not just being a physician). And the ones doing the floors in your office building are part of "rengjøringspersonale", not "vaskehjelp".
> 
> When it (finally...) comes to "bonde", I would suggest "gårdbruker", because it is neutral. There is nothing wrong with "bonde", but we have all heard it used pejoratively (or spend 5 minutes with the Vålerenga supporters at a game...), and the terms "bondelandet" and "bondsk" are used about something, quaint, rustic and unsophisticated.



First of all "sales associate" is quite wrong from the terminological point of view. The person involved is no "associate" at all, but a hired employee. 

Besides, do you reject "fireman/brannmann" (a traditional name) and "kassadame" (too) because they are not "gender neutral"?


----------



## NorwegianNYC

Ben Jamin said:


> First of all "sales associate" is quite wrong from the terminological point of view. The person involved is no "associate" at all, but a hired employee.
> 
> Besides, do you reject "fireman/brannmann" (a traditional name) and "kassadame" (too) because they are not "gender neutral"?


I think you are missing my point. It is indeed called "sales associate" in English. Personnel in stores will refer to each other as "sales associates", and you are misreading the term 'associate' here. Someone who is associated with the sales force is a "sales associate". It is the sanctioned term.

And, you cannot use "fireman". Nor "policeman". It is considered very bad form. The reason is largely etymological, since English over the past century has (falsely) reinterpreted 'man' to mean 'male person'. In Norwegian it is different, since "mann" has retained its original meaning as both 'person' and 'male being' (actually - 'male' is a later development of the word). Therefore, in Norwegian "brannmann" does not equate English 'fireman', but 'fire person(-nel)'. As a matter of fact, the very demonym for a Norwegian - nordmann - does not refer to sex, but simply means 'person from the north'.

To make it clear - nowhere in this thread do I reject 'brannmann'! It is a good and sound Norwegian term. I do however label 'ekspeditrise', 'kassadama', 'vaskekone', 'flyvertinne' et.al. as colloquialisms, and also dated colloquialisms that ought to be avoided. An example: 60-70 years ago, "gruveslusk" was a person who worked in a mine, mostly responsible for clearing the mine shafts of water and rubble. No one in their sound mind would label a mine worker "gruveslusk" today - no matter where he stood in the internal hierarchy in the mining operation. Also, you may refer to a (female) employee in a store as "kassadame", but it is not, and has never been the appropriate work title. It is a colloquialism, and I would absolutely not recommend Norwegian learners to start with the colloquialisms, but rather venture into them later (as Claribelsophia says).


----------



## Ben Jamin

NorwegianNYC said:


> I think you are missing my point. It is indeed called "sales associate" in English. Personnel in stores will refer to each other as "sales associates", and you are misreading the term 'associate' here. Someone who is associated with the sales force is a "sales associate". It is the sanctioned term.
> 
> And, you cannot use "fireman". Nor "policeman". It is considered very bad form. The reason is largely etymological, since English over the past century has (falsely) reinterpreted 'man' to mean 'male person'. In Norwegian it is different, since "mann" has retained its original meaning as both 'person' and 'male being' (actually - 'male' is a later development of the word). Therefore, in Norwegian "brannmann" does not equate English 'fireman', but 'fire person(-nel)'. As a matter of fact, the very demonym for a Norwegian - nordmann - does not refer to sex, but simply means 'person from the north'.
> 
> To make it clear - nowhere in this thread do I reject 'brannmann'! It is a good and sound Norwegian term. I do however label 'ekspeditrise', 'kassadama', 'vaskekone', 'flyvertinne' et.al. as colloquialisms, and also dated colloquialisms that ought to be avoided. An example: 60-70 years ago, "gruveslusk" was a person who worked in a mine, mostly responsible for clearing the mine shafts of water and rubble. No one in their sound mind would label a mine worker "gruveslusk" today - no matter where he stood in the internal hierarchy in the mining operation. Also, you may refer to a (female) employee in a store as "kassadame", but it is not, and has never been the appropriate work title. It is a colloquialism, and I would absolutely not recommend Norwegian learners to start with the colloquialisms, but rather venture into them later (as Claribelsophia says).



I think that calling "colloquial" (the degree of colloquiality can differ very much) words incorrect, as opposed to "correct" official/formal words (terms) with the same (intended) meaning is a misunderstandig. Correct/incorrect oppositon is not the same as colloquial/formal opposition. Colloquial words can be as correct as formal ones, and mostly are.

A word may be *incorrect* if it is confusing and/or ambiguous, or not used in that meaning by most people. On the other hand many *formal terms* can be perceived as weird and never used by "ordinary" people, especially words coined by bureaucrats. 

A word may be politically incorrect if it is considered offensive or derogatory. 

Actually the offensive/derogatory property of a word is usually not inherent to the word itself, but to the connotations given it by the users. A politically correct word coined in Norway "våre nye landsmenn" (our new compatriots) has already become an *ethnic slur word*, used nowadays mostly only in a derogatory meaning.


----------



## NorwegianNYC

Hi Ben - I agree, a colloquialism cannot be measured by its correctness. Which is why I use the term 'appropriate' instead, and appropriateness in this context refers to a term that is more or less applicable, not more or less correct. When I do refer to colloquialisms, it is measure of how suitable and proper a term is as per 2013, not its degree of correctness. 

In Norwegian, one can use the term 'flyvertinne' (which I am sure the majority does) and be 100% 'correct' as long as one is referring to a female flight attendant. However, 'flyvertinne' in no longer the proper term. Nor can one claim that 'kassadama' is the proper term as of 2013. Regardless of how frequently it is used. Therefore it is a colloquialism. It has got nothing to to with correctness.


----------

