# Icelandic: Alþingishúsið or Alþingihús



## dreadedutch

Hi everybody.

I have a question about the word _"Alþingishúsið_" 

In this particular case it comes from the sentence:

_Þetta er Alþingishúsið._

I kinda understand why _Alþingishúsið _is written like this in this sentence. And I also understand it is a combination of two words; _Alþingi _and _hús. _What I'm wondering is that if I were to just say the word (not use it in a sentence) would I say _Alþingihús_? 

Takk.. .

​


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## dinji

dreadedutch said:


> Hi everybody.​
> 
> I have a question about the word _"Alþingishúsið_"​
> In this particular case it comes from the sentence:​
> _Þetta er Alþingishúsið._​
> I kinda understand why _Alþingishúsið _is written like this in this sentence. And I also understand it is a combination of two words; _Alþingi _and _hús. _What I'm wondering is that if I were to just say the word (not use it in a sentence) would I say _Alþingihús_?​
> Takk.. .​


No way. In compound words the latter element only is declined.


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## hanne

dreadedutch said:


> I kinda understand why _Alþingishúsið _is written like this in this sentence.


I'm curious, why particularly in that sentence? What would be different if you had the word by itself?

(btw, we have a discussion of interfix-s in the thread Blaðamannaverðlauin (#6) - I think it could well be related)


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## Karkwa

dreadedutch said:


> Hi everybody.​
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about the word _"Alþingishúsið_"​
> In this particular case it comes from the sentence:​
> _Þetta er Alþingishúsið._​
> I kinda understand why _Alþingishúsið _is written like this in this sentence. And I also understand it is a combination of two words; _Alþingi _and _hús. _What I'm wondering is that if I were to just say the word (not use it in a sentence) would I say _Alþingihús_?​
> Takk.. .​


No, you always say Alþingishúsið. Alternatively you can just call it Alþingi but definitely not Alþingihús.

Alþingishúsið translated to English would be 'the house of Alþingi/parliament.' Thus it is: 'the house (húsið) of Alþingi (Alþingis).' That it is because the house belongs to Alþingi.

But yeah, you should check out the other thread. People more intelligent than I have explained this in a better manner.


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## dreadedutch

hanne said:


> I'm curious, why particularly in that sentence? What would be different if you had the word by itself?
> 
> (btw, we have a discussion of interfix-s in the thread Blaðamannaverðlauin (#6) - I think it could well be related)



Yea I realize now that it doesn't make much sense. It was an exercise which included 2 more sentences. Maybe it made more sense posting those as well.

Ah well...I've been learning for 3 weeks now. I'll get the hang of it some day


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## Alxmrphi

Hi Sander

A good rule to understand is (I've taken this from one of my books) is that when words combine to make compound words (which Icelandic likes to do) the first word is nearly always in the genitive or the accusative.

So when you get a word that is combined, it's a pretty safe guess it's not going to be in the dictionary (nominative) form, which is the way it would be when saying it on its own.

Karkwa explained it very well, it's a good example because it makes logical sense of where the house belongs to, in other things it works in the same way, but might seem less logical.

I'll give just another example as well (a weak feminine noun, this means when declined in the singular for the other three cases then the* a* changes to *u*)

*Greiðsla* (f) - payment
*kort* (n) - card

So we're combining them to make the word for credit card, so in this case, we change the *a* to a *u* and combine them.

*Greiðslukort* (n) - credit card

You wouldn't ever combine them where they both stay in their normal forms, the first word always has to be declined (never *greiðslakort*)

Note as well, the gender of the new word is always that of the end word in the compound, so here, because the two original words were Neuter and Feminine, 'kort' is at the end, and that's neuter, so that makes the whole compound neuter.

I hope this post helped.


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## dreadedutch

Great! This is makes sense. 
I'm slowly starting get more into this subject now but because of the somewhat limited explanations I read on the site giving me these lessons I didn't always understand why words change the way they do. And it helps if you know what words are masculine, feminine and neuter. Today I read that you can tell what gender a word is by looking at with what letter they end with and if they simply refer to a male or female. Like words ending with an 'a' is often a feminine word. Although this rule doesn't apply to all words ending with an 'a'.

Thanks!!


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## Alxmrphi

Very true dreadedutch, there aren't really any great sites with good explanations that take it slowly, it seems you've got to be a linguistic expert to understand the terminology, but there are pieces of information that are good, but because the subject is so complicated, you can't really focus on one thing (nobody would buy the book/read the website then) so nothing is ever in detail, but it's good to have this forum for 'human' explanations.

Like what you said about femine nouns before, most end in 'a' but so do a lot of neuter words as well, there are so many exceptions it's annoying, but when I learn new Icelandic words I have a memory system, I make a connection to something in my home city, it's divided into 3 aras (one of feminine/masculine/neuter) and when I try to remember the word, I remember what it is associated with and the part of my city tells me the gender of the word, helpful for all the exceptions.

For example I know that 'helgi' is a feminine word because it's in the city centre, a viking woman called 'helgi' (sounds like helga, viking-like) is standing on the steps infront of the art gallery, also inside the art gallery there is a group of tourists going through their LIST of pieces of art they want to see, taking the list and showing it to the staff and asking people where various piece of artwork are located, so I know that 'list' is a feminine word (city centre) and it means 'art'...

Both of these words don't end in 'a' and I wouldn't be able to guess the gender otherwise, so it's very helpful, I can't imagine learning Icelandic without this system, so that's why I am reccomending it.


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## dreadedutch

Alex_Murphy said:


> For example I know that 'helgi' is a feminine word because it's in the city centre, a viking woman called 'helgi' (sounds like helga, viking-like) is standing on the steps infront of the art gallery, also inside the art gallery there is a group of tourists going through their LIST of pieces of art they want to see, taking the list and showing it to the staff and asking people where various piece of artwork are located, so I know that 'list' is a feminine word (city centre) and it means 'art'...



Maybe it's me but I do not understand this method nor this example. Helgi is in the city centre? What's that all about? 

I get that you're trying to remember by associating Icelandic words with stories/situations but I don't get this story


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## Alxmrphi

All I was trying to say that when I learnt the word 'weekend' in Icelandic, I knew it was feminine, and put it in a part of my city that I have feminine words in (the city centre), and that's how I can know the gender of a word without having to look at it (_I remember the genders of the words before the words themselves_)



> I get that you're trying to remember by associating Icelandic words with stories/situations but I don't get this story



Well, that's what 'this story' is, associations, that was just one personal one that I used as an example.


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## Wilma_Sweden

I'm relieved I don't have to memorize genders in any big way, so when trying to learn, anything goes!  I guess what you mean is that you associate a number of feminine items with the city centre, represented by the female Viking statue? 

By the way, I got curious about which art gallery it is, in case I should ever re-visit Liverpool. 

/Wilma


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## Alxmrphi

Yeah exactly, around my area of where I live is for masculine words, the inner city is for neuter and the city centre is for feminine words.
The same split is for verbs as well, feminine is for irregular verbs (so based in the city centre), Group 1 verbs are in the masculine area and group 2 verbs are in the neuter area

So the viking statue comes alive and says "What you do at _*weekend*_?" and winks or something like that, with a VERY strong Nordic accent

Other ones I haveare : 

Cod (fish) on my pillow at home (masculine* koddi*)

A bedroom in my friends house (inner city -> neuter) there is a big bear made out of hair taken from loads of hairbrushes trying to get out of the window (_the weirder the easier to remember_) so that 'hair bear' links me to herbergi (n) , I forgot to mention there is a sign saying "Svefn", so the sign on the door leads me to my friends* bedroom *where the bear is...
Then I have *svefnherbergi* (bedroom)

Ok I got a bit carried away explaining that, but it's a system that I never thought would work, it's shocked me that it works so well (sometimes I few problems with exact spellings, but not with the sounds).

As for the art gallery, we have a few of them, but it's this one, we have other statues there, it's with them


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## dreadedutch

Alex_Murphy said:


> All I was trying to say that when I learnt the word 'weekend' in Icelandic, I knew it was feminine, and put it in a part of my city that I have feminine words in (the city centre), and that's how I can know the gender of a word without having to look at it (_I remember the genders of the words before the words themselves_)
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's what 'this story' is, associations, that was just one personal one that I used as an example.




Ah ok. Now I get it!  I was taking the story a bit too literally.


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## jonquiliser

Nice way of memorising genders (or a lot of other things). I'll have to start making use of this method


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## Alxmrphi

I read it in a book, written by a guy who is a memory expert, he is in the Guiness Book of Records, he has won a lot of awards for memory-related things (some involving language learning)

Anyway I took his method and developed it, and I was very sceptical at first, then, I wanted to remember the word for 'lemon', I had learnt it ONCE, about 2 months before... and instantly I got a memory of placing it in the city centre, then I had a crown, sitting on a throne, made from lemons, it took me a few minutes but then I remembered "seat + throne" sitrona (lemon) and I was so amazingly gobsmacked, I was so unsure, but I couldn't remember the word for 2 mins, and normally I would have given up, but I didn't (I was in bed at the time, wasn't able to check)

But the answer, what I had learned, WAS in my head, not like a learned thing, but an association, and it was there, and I got it.


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## jonquiliser

Nice. Apart from the utility it seems like quite a bit of fun - I shall see where it brings me with Arabic


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## dinji

Alex_Murphy said:


> Hi Sander
> 
> A good rule to understand is (I've taken this from one of my books) is that when words combine to make compound words (which Icelandic likes to do) the first word is nearly always in the genitive or the accusative.


I think "nearly always" is a slight overstatement, since the form you call accusative is in fact a very archaic stem form, as I have explained in this other thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1288179

I suppose the stem form coincides with the accusative every now and then. At least there is no other case which coincides so often.

In contrast, the genitive is a genuine genitive. It is good to remember that it may also be genitive plural.


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## Alxmrphi

You're going to have to explain that again dinj lol, it makes no sense to me,

How can the accusative case be archaic?



> I suppose the stem form coincides with the accusative every now and then. At least there is no other case which coincides so often.


Well this is what I meant, maybe I should have said "very often" instead of "nearly always"



> In contrast, the genitive is a genuine genitive. It is good to remember that it may also be genitive plural.


I don't get what you mean, what could be genitive plural? Do you mean the form that looks like the accusative? I can't understand what you're comparing a 'genuine' genitive with?

I only said what my book says, which was written by someone who taught Icelandic at the University of Cambridge, so I'm not putting forward any arguements about it, just repeating what I have read.


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## dinji

Alex_Murphy said:


> I don't get what you mean, what could be genitive plural? Do you mean the form that looks like the accusative? I can't understand what you're comparing a 'genuine' genitive with?


Well, the first example that comes into my mind is the place name _Landmannalaugar_ where (Land)_manna- _stands in genitive plural. Singular would be (Land)_manns-_ and accusative=stemform would be (Land)_mann-._



Alex_Murphy said:


> I only said what my book says, which was written by someone who taught Icelandic at the University of Cambridge, so I'm not putting forward any arguements about it, just repeating what I have read.


OK I get it. I for my part am not a specialist in Icelandic so I might very well be wrong. I did quite some bit on Scandianvian language history in more general terms and I view things from that angle. I won't escalate my argument with you but present my counter examples _jarðvegur_, _sakleysi_ and _grafskrift_ (where the first element definitely is not accustive) to the whole audience of this forum for comments instead.


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## Alxmrphi

I still am interested in a discussion, I just couldn't understand your point as it was written in a very linguistic-based way, I get lost in the terminology, maybe there is a reason that I don't understand it...

But I see what you mean about your examples, this could be an irregularity, maybe exactly the one that made the author not say "always", though they do all follow the same pattern:

jörð -> jarð
sök -> sak
gröf -> graf

So I guess it's possible that for these words there is an obscure Icelandic rule that puts the umlaut into an 'a' - interesting!
Words very often change when different endings are added, like the word for 'queue' (biðröð) when adding an 'a' ending, it will change the umlaut (genitive adds 'ar' to the word so it becomes *biðraðar*), so it's a good possibility a grammar rule is altering the word.

This then leads us into confusing territory on what the actual form is, I can see that, for example, in* sök -> sak*, is something happening that cuts off the ending of the genitive (*sakar -> sak*) or is something happening to change the accusative (*sök -> sak*), so when these little rules get in the way it makes it difficult to understand exactly what form a word is in, but oh well, I hopefully won't have to worry about getting hung up on that for a few years!!


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## hanne

Erhm, well, since I don't know a thing about linguistics either, but think I got what dinji is trying to say, I'll have a quick go at this.

You're saying it's "either accusative or genitive". That's wrong. It's "either an archaic stem form or genitive". And this archaic stem form thingy happens to coincide with the accusative now and then, making some people think it's an accusative. Or make them use it as a "close enough" rule to help people explain/remember.

So she didn't say the accusative was archaic, she said it wasn't an accusative at all.
And the thing about a "genuine genitive" was just because it really IS a genitive, and not just something that looks like a genitive.

Finally


> This then leads us into confusing territory on what the actual form is,


that's what she was trying to explain all the way  - the actual form is the archaic stem form.

I hope that was of some sort of help...


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## Alxmrphi

> You're saying it's "either accusative or genitive". That's wrong


I never said it was either accusative or genitive, or sorry, my book specifically says 'very often', so I don't know where you read that.
I understand your point about how it coincides occasionaly with the accusative, that makes sense! 



> And the thing about a "genuine genitive" was just because it really IS a genitive, and not just something that looks like a genitive.


Ok......... I don't know where this was ever disagreed with, nobody ever said anything to the contrary (unless I missed something)


> that's what she was trying to explain all the way  - the actual form is the archaic stem form.


Gotcha

*Edit:
Ahhhhh I understand now, the first one is not an accusative, but very often has the same stem form, and looks a lot like it, but when talking about the genitive it always is actually the genitive form, it makes a lot of sense now!*


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## Ricro

Alxmrphi said:


> I have a memory system, I make a connection to something in my home city, it's divided into 3 areas (one of feminine/masculine/neuter) and when I try to remember the word, I remember what it is associated with and the part of my city tells me the gender of the word, helpful for all the exceptions.



This is simply such a great method of memorizing genders. I´ve heard about this method but until now, I myself was too uncreative as to know how to use it. Now I got a very useful hint already. I guess I will try this one out. Maybe it´ll work for me too (hopefully). Thanks Alex for sharing this. 

Fred


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## Silver_Biscuit

Wow. I know you've told me about this before, Alex, but it is really cool how expansive your 'city of words' is. I don't think I could ever do that. My brain clearly works in a more 'etymological' way. When I see sítróna I think citron, citrus, lemon all at the same time! This is OK for meanings, but I can see your system has some serious advantages when it comes to memorising gender and verb conjugation. I would have said helgi was a masculine noun without thinking!


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## Alxmrphi

> Thanks Alex for sharing this.


It's definitely worth it, like a mental word decliner, it's for verbs as well and weirdly, I never thought it'd work after I read about that method but here I am over 18 months later still adding to it, it's very layered with subgroups now but it's impossible for me to ever confuse _að leggja_ / _að leigja / að liggja_, even though there's only 1 letter difference (they're all in clearly different areas in my mind) but that was my biggest worry when I start learning, that I'd never be able to remember them all.



> I don't think I could ever do that. My brain clearly works in a more  'etymological' way.


You have a very sensible way that looks for patterns in related words and combining related information to reach the correct word, but the problem I would have had would is need to build up a huge stock before I could draw on comparisons, so it'd be impossible for me to do what you did .



> I would have said helgi was a masculine noun without thinking!


Exactly! But that word is linked with an image of a big Viking woman (called _Helga_) holding a calender with the weekend circled speaking with a funny Norwegian accent (pronouncing her name as _helgi_), it's by the pier (city centre, feminine area) and that's also a sub-area of the feminine _district_ (so to speak) where strong nouns have a plural in _-ar_ rather than the other side of the feminine area (main one) where strong nouns have a plural in_ -ir_.


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## Brautryðjandinn í Úlfsham

dinji said:


> No way. In compound words the latter element only is declined.



Hello!
I don't think this is always right. Here are some compound words that inflect both at the end and at the beginning. However, these might be special because they're used to talk about the fictional place "Latibær" or "Lazy Town" and the children's book character "Fíasól".
Þetta er Lat*i*bær / Fí*a*sól.
Ég er að lesa bók um Lat*a*bæ / Fí*u*sól.
Hann er frá Lat*a*bæ. Þessi gjöf er frá Fí*u*sól.
Ég fer til Lat*a*bæjar / Fí*u*sólar.


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## Brautryðjandinn í Úlfsham

There is also a street named 'Grænagata' that is inflected like this:
Hér er Grænagata.
Ég skrifaði um Grænugötu.
Ég sagði þeim frá Grænugötu.
Þessir verðir gæta Grænugötu.


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## Brautryðjandinn í Úlfsham

Another street is 'Miklabraut':
Hér er Miklabraut.
Ég skrifaði um Miklubraut.
Ég sagði þeim frá Miklubraut.
Þessir verðir gæta Miklubrautar.


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