# גברת vs. העלמה



## sawyeric1

So גברת is a title for married or single women, but העלמה is a title only for single women? 

Thanks


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## slus

Nobody uses העלמה. You can find it in very old books.


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## origumi

slus said:


> Nobody uses העלמה. You can find it in very old books.


It was imitation of European culture, which never really existed in Israeli / Jewish society and doesn't exist in recent decades.

Nevertheless I like this term in its old-fashioned form, it reminds me of the early modern Hebrew translations of classical European literature (19th century etc.) with its so strange (for me as a teenager) yet impressing, mysterious and complex habits.


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## sawyeric1

So גברת is the only one that mirrors מר / אדון. Nice and simple


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## origumi

sawyeric1 said:


> So גברת is the only one that mirrors מר / אדון. Nice and simple


Not exactly. It's a cultural matter rather than lingual. Calling a young woman גברת may not only be redundant politeness, it can be interpreted as rudeness, as if you're telling her she looks older that what she really is.


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## slus

As a general rule, calling people אדון/מר or גברת will probably be considered, at best, weird.
in some cases אדוני or גברתי can be appropriate, but usually we're better off without them.


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## sawyeric1

It's weird to say אדון / מר or גברת if you put their last names after the titles?


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## slus

Yes, a bit.
There is a rumor that our Prime Minister's wife demands to be called גברת נתניהו or הגברת נתניהו and it has been ridiculed, because it is so unnatural to Hebrew.


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## origumi

slus said:


> Yes, a bit.
> There is a rumor that our Prime Minister's wife demands to be called גברת נתניהו or הגברת נתניהו and it has been ridiculed, because it is so unnatural to Hebrew.


Yet again, in regard to language גברת and העלמה are perfect. It's a cultural issue. In modern Israeli Hebrew one needs to be a bank manager or a minister and alike to be called מר. With Mrs. Netanyahu, I think it was said that she wants to be called גברת שרה, which is even more weird in first glance, but in a way more natural remembering that last names, just like the titles we discuss, are used in Israel mostly in formal situations, or when need to fully qualify a person, or as a nickname, for example in the military.


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## amikama

In foreign movies, TV shows, books etc., the title 'Miss' is sometimes translated (or rather, _transliterated_) as מיס in Hebrew. But as the others said above, it's merely a reflection of the Anglo-Saxon culture and has nothing to do with the Hebrew/Israeli culture.


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## Ali Smith

If you want to address a lady but don’t know her last name can you simply say סלחי לי, גברת (Excuse me, ma’am) or do you have to say גברתי?


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## slus

You can say גברתי. You can even say גברת, but boy bothare redundant mnd is some cases might even insult her (if she's young, for example).
סליחה is the most natural way to address an unknown person.


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## Techref

סליחה נשמה זה בסדר?


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## slus

בחוגים מאוד מסויימים LOL


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