# I suggest that <he not go there / he doesn't go there>



## rapadox

Hello

I know that if I use suggest I must use bare verb e.g. I suggest you/he go there.

But how does it work with NEGATIVE?

I suggest you /he not go there. - am I right?


Thanks


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## owlman5

That sounds right to me, rapadox.  Your version is exactly what I would use:  I suggest (that) you not go there.


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## The Prof

Speaking purely from a personal rather than a grammatical point of view, I would have said, "_I suggest (that) you don't go there_".


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## e2efour

The Prof said:


> Speaking purely from a personal rather than a grammatical point of view, I would have said, "_I suggest (that) you don't go there_".


I agree that this is more likely in BE (or _I suggest that you should not...)._ There is nothing ungrammatical about it.
The negative _I suggest you not..._ sounds rather formal and tends to be used in AE much more than in BE.

However, it is important to remember that that _suggest_ has two meanings: suggesting a course of action or suggesting that something is the case or not.
A Making a suggestion or recommendation:
_If you want to get fit, I suggest you go there/you not go there/you don't go there.
_ 
B Suggesting that something is the case or not:
_I suggest that you are not telling the truth_. Here it makes no sense to say _I suggest that you not tell the truth._


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## sunyaer

e2efour said:


> ...
> 
> However, it is important to remember that that _suggest_ has two meanings: suggesting a course of action or suggesting that something is the case or not.
> A Making a suggestion or recommendation:
> _If you want to get fit, I suggest you go there/you not go there/you don't go there.
> _
> B Suggesting that something is the case or not:
> _I suggest that you are not telling the truth_. Here it makes no sense to say _I suggest that you not tell the truth._



What does "suggest" mean in B? Does it mean "imply"? What does "I suggest that you are not telling the truth"?

After we have cheated on our parents on spending the money, we better not let them know about it, and  "I suggest that you not tell the truth" when you get home. Does this sentence work in the context?


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## Parla

I agree with Rapadox and Owlman.


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## sound shift

I couldn't say: "I suggest you/he not go there." It's clear from this thread that some people could, but it's a construction that I don't use. That's not because of "rules": I have never read any "rules" about this.


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## RM1(SS)

Apparently we two peoples are separated by that common language even further than I had thought.   I agree with Parla, &c.


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## Forero

sunyaer said:


> e2efour said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> However, it is important to remember that that _suggest_ has two meanings: suggesting a course of action or suggesting that something is the case or not.
> A Making a suggestion or recommendation:
> _If you want to get fit, I suggest you go there/you not go there/you don't go there.
> _
> B Suggesting that something is the case or not:
> _I suggest that you are not telling the truth_. Here it makes no sense to say _I suggest that you not tell the truth._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does "suggest" mean in B? Does it mean "imply"? What does "I suggest that you are not telling the truth"?
> 
> After we have cheated on our parents on spending the money, we better not let them know about it, and  "I suggest that you not tell the truth" when you get home. Does this sentence work in the context?
Click to expand...

The verb _imply_ does not fit.

A suggestion is an offer. In A, I am offering you a possible future action for you to choose; in B, I am offering you an interpretation of the present for you to consider.

In AmE we use subjunctive for A, indicative for B.


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## sunyaer

sunyaer said:


> ...
> 
> After we have cheated on our parents on spending the money, we better not let them know about it, and  "I suggest that you not tell the truth" when you get home. Does this sentence work in the context?





Forero said:


> ...
> 
> A suggestion is an offer. In A, I am offering you a possible future action for you to choose; in B, I am offering you an interpretation of the present for you to consider.
> 
> In AmE we use subjunctive for A, indicative for B.



Could my question be answered?


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## e2efour

1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
_2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.

_Sentence 1) might be said by a policeman interrogating a suspect. Another way of saying this would be _I put it to you that you are not telling the truth.
Suggest _in this sentence means to say indirectly.

In sentence 2) we have a recommendation not to do something.This is used when giving advice.For example,_ I suggest you don't go to Syria on holiday.
_


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## sunyaer

e2efour said:


> 1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
> _2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.
> 
> ...
> _
> In sentence 2) we have a recommendation not to do something.This is used when giving advice.For example,_ I suggest you don't go to Syria on holiday.
> _



Would you use_ I suggest (that) you not tell the truth _for sentence 2)? Why?


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## e2efour

I have already answered this in line 2 of #4. British speakers tend to say "I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth".
They may be influenced by AE usage and say "I suggest that you not ...", although in this construction a BE speaker is much more likely to say"you should not"_._


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## JamesM

e2efour said:


> 1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
> _2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.
> 
> _


_

Yes, to my AE ear these are both accusations.  The first one is talking about the current situation and the second one indicates that you habitually lie.

To me that is the benefit of having the subjunctive.  It makes it clear (to an AE ear) that it is advice and not an accusation.  "I suggest that you should not tell the truth" has yet another meaning to me; it means that you have a moral, social or ethical obligation not to tell the truth (for some reason).  I understand that it is the BE equivalent of our use of the subjunctive and I would understand it to mean that from a BE speaker, but from an AE speaker I would hear the moral/social obligation coloring._


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## sunyaer

e2efour said:


> 1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
> _2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.
> 
> _Sentence 1) might be said by a policeman interrogating a suspect. Another way of saying this would be _I put it to you that you are not telling the truth.
> Suggest _in this sentence means to say indirectly.
> 
> ...





JamesM said:


> Yes, to my AE ear these are both accusations.  The first one is talking about the current situation and the second one indicates that you habitually lie.
> 
> ...



Would you please craft a dialogue showing how “I” would say sentence 1) and 2) to “you” in the scenario?


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## JamesM

Witness A: "I never saw her before in my life."
Prosecutor: "Mr. Jones, we have photos of the two of you that were posted months before the incident in question on your Facebook page. * I suggest that you are not telling the truth.*  Would you like to revise your statement?"

(This is a polite way of saying "You've just told a lie")


Interviewee: "People can count on me to tell it like it is.  I am the only source of truth on the airwaves.  That's why I'm the number one radio talk show host in the nation."
Interviewer: "Mr. Bimbo, you have been named in at least eight slander lawsuits in the last six months.  Your 'exposé' on excesses in the White House had to be retracted due to 'inaccuracies and misstatements'.  Far from being the source of truth on the airwaves, *I suggest you don't tell the truth*.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say you make your living from not telling the truth."

(Second way - habitual lying)


Husband A: "What if my wife asks me if her jeans make her look fat?  Honestly, they do."
Husband B: "Whether they do or not, it's a no-win situation to tell her that.  *I suggest you not tell the truth.*  Trust me, everyone will be happier."

(Third way - as advice)


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## sunyaer

e2efour said:


> 1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
> _2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.
> 
> _...
> 
> In sentence 2) we have a recommendation not to do something.This is used when giving advice.For example,_ I suggest you don't go to Syria on holiday.
> _





JamesM said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Interviewee: "People can count on me to tell it like it is.  I am the only source of truth on the airwaves.  That's why I'm the number one radio talk show host in the nation."
> Interviewer: "Mr. Bimbo, you have been named in at least eight slander lawsuits in the last six months.  Your 'exposé' on excesses in the White House had to be retracted due to 'inaccuracies and misstatements'.  Far from being the source of truth on the airwaves, *I suggest you don't tell the truth*.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say you make your living from not telling the truth."
> 
> (Second way - habitual lying)
> 
> ...



As seen from the above two posts, for some verbs (like "go"), "I suggest (that) you don't..." indicates a recommendation; for other verbs (like "tell"), it has the sense that I am suggesting that "you" have the habitual behavior. Is my understanding correct?


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## JamesM

No, I think it's more of an AE/BE difference.  American English tends to use "I suggest you not..." for recommendations and British English uses "I suggest you don't" for recommendations.  I added a third example to my post to show how "I suggest you not..." is used in AE.


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## sunyaer

JamesM said:


> No, I think it's more of an AE/BE difference.  American English tends to use "I suggest you not..." for recommendations and British English uses "I suggest you don't" for recommendations. ...



And how would Brits read *I suggest you don't tell the truth*?


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## JamesM

e2efour answered that in post #11:



e2efour said:


> 1) _I suggest (that) you are not telling the truth.
> _2)_ I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth.
> 
> _Sentence 1) might be said by a policeman interrogating a suspect. Another way of saying this would be _I put it to you that you are not telling the truth.
> Suggest _in this sentence means to say indirectly.
> 
> In sentence 2) we have a recommendation not to do something.This is used when giving advice.For example,_ I suggest you don't go to Syria on holiday.
> _


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## sunyaer

JamesM said:


> e2efour answered that in post #11:



First, when third person is concerned, does British English say "he suggests (that) she doesn't tell the truth" or "I suggest (that) she doesn't tell the truth" to make a recommendation ?

Second, how would British English express the equivalent idea of "*I suggest you don't tell the truth*" in American English?


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## Keith Bradford

*British usage*:

(a)  I suggest (that) you aren't telling the truth = I think you are lying.
(b)  I suggest (that) you shouldn't tell the truth = I advise you to lie.
(c)  I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth = ambiguous; either (a) or (b) above, probably (b).

The subjunctive is only used in procedural contexts such as:

(d)  I propose that the secretary write a letter to the Council = I move a formal proposal to the meeting.


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## x-man1

Forero and JamesH have pointed to the core of the issue here: NAE (Let's say North American English since Canada is part of it, not just the US) preserves the subjunctive while BE has dropped it except in some lexical items ("If I were you" etc.)  This seems to me a loss for BE, since with a subjunctive we can make subtle distinctions about how likely a situation is to be true.  Newspapers at least used to do it all the time, reporting alleged crimes in the subjunctive to avoid possible libel suits.  I notice that the popular grammar teaching series "Azar" some years ago tried to omit the subjunctive entirely and to treat subjunctive situations as exceptions.  It didn't work, and they reinstated the subjunctive in the next edition. 

 It is a commonplace that NAE preserves an older English grammar while BE has moved on.  I am glad we are still back here.  "God save the Queen."  "God!  Save the Queen!"  Surely "save" is not an imperative; it is clearly a subjunctive, a polite request.  In NAE the subjunctive is not limited to the present subjunctive, but includes the past subjunctive--which, because it is the subjunctive is not limited to the past: "It's time you were in bed."


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## sunyaer

JamesM said:


> ...
> 
> Interviewee: "People can count on me to tell it like it is.  I am the only source of truth on the airwaves.  That's why I'm the number one radio talk show host in the nation."
> Interviewer: "Mr. Bimbo, you have been named in at least eight slander lawsuits in the last six months.  Your 'exposé' on excesses in the White House had to be retracted due to 'inaccuracies and misstatements'.  Far from being the source of truth on the airwaves, *I suggest you don't tell the truth*.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say you make your living from not telling the truth."
> 
> (Second way - habitual lying)
> 
> ....





sunyaer said:


> ...
> ..., how would British English express the equivalent idea of "*I suggest you don't tell the truth*" in American English?






Keith Bradford said:


> *British usage*:
> 
> (a)  I suggest (that) you aren't telling the truth = I think you are lying.
> (b)  I suggest (that) you shouldn't tell the truth = I advise you to lie.
> (c)  I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth = ambiguous; either (a) or (b) above, probably (b).
> 
> ...



As shown in JamesM's example, (c)  _I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth _doesn't mean (a), but habitual lying, my question is how British English would express the idea of habitual lying as in JamesM's example with _I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth?_


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## Keith Bradford

sunyaer said:


> ... my question is how British English would express the idea of habitual lying as in JamesM's example with _I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth?_



I suggest that you rarely tell the truth.
I suggest that you are a habitual liar.

Strong stuff, this, but then the situation is an uncomfortable one.


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## sunyaer

Keith Bradford said:


> I suggest that you rarely tell the truth.
> I suggest that you are a habitual liar.
> 
> Strong stuff, this, but then the situation is an uncomfortable one.



My following question would be:

How would it be different if "I suggest" is taken out of the sentences, making them read as " you rarely tell the truth" and  "you are a habitual liar"? Is "I suggest" serving as a softener in the sentences?

Also, without "rarely", "I suggest that you rarely tell the truth" would become "I suggest that you tell the truth", which would slip back to mean giving recommendation?


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## JulianStuart

sunyaer said:


> My following question would be:
> 
> How would it be different if "I suggest" is taken out of the sentences, making them read as " you rarely tell the truth" and  "you are a habitual liar"? Is *"I suggest" serving as a softener in the sentences?*


That's a good paraphrase - "I suggest X" means that "It is my current belief that X (but I might be convinced to change my mind)" while "X" is much stronger and  means I am already convinced that X is true, and you will not convince me otherwise.


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## Ivan_I

After having read this thread I can see that there is a discrepancy and confusion in regards to the usage of "suggest". I will provide my analyze which is going to be criticized of course  



e2efour said:


> However, it is important to remember that that _suggest_ has two meanings:
> 
> 1 suggesting a course of action.
> 2 suggesting that something is the case or not.


Very true. If we want to separate the two we need to use them differently, otherwise we will get ambiguity. How do we do it? Forero comes to rescue here.


Forero said:


> In AmE we use subjunctive for A, indicative for B.


We can use either SUBJUNCTIVE or INDICATIVE. It's logical to assume that each of the two bears a certain function.
That is, if we need *1 suggesting a course of action *we use SUBJUNCTIVE.
I suggest that you not go there.
if we need *2 suggesting that something is the case or not.* we use INDICATIVE.
I suggest you don't go there. (It is my current belief that  you don't go there.)

But I can see that almost everyone in this thread considers:

_I suggest you don't go there._ *TO MEAN* _I suggest you not go there._

Which is, in my opinion, wrong. To back up my conclusion I submit Keith's evaluation of the issue.



Keith Bradford said:


> *British usage*:
> (a)  I suggest (that) you aren't telling the truth = I think you are lying.
> (b)  I suggest (that) you shouldn't tell the truth = I advise you to lie.
> (c)  I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth = ambiguous; either (a) or (b) above, probably (b).



In my opinion, I suggest (that) you don't tell the truth. can only mean (A)
But in practice people use it wrongly, as I can see.


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## Hermione Golightly

I love the way you suggest we don't speak correctly.


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## Loob

Ivan, it seems you somehow missed the fact that there's a difference between AmE and BrE here.

_cross-posted_


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## Ivan_I

I see that both Americans and British people mix the two different things. Another example:

1 I suggest that she work there.  *CAN only mean* I want her to work there (kind of)
1a I suggest that she not work there.
2 I suggest that she works there.  *CAN only mean *I believe that she works there.
2a I suggest that she doesn't work there.

In this thread people say that *2a *can mean *1a *as well as *2a*. It's not totally right. 

When you check the affirmative sentences you can see why.


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## Loob

Ivan_I said:


> 2 I suggest that she works there. *CAN only mean *I believe that she works there.


Not correct, I'm afraid.
See my earlier comment about BrE/AmE differences.


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## Forero

Ivan_I said:


> 1 I suggest that she work there.  *CAN only mean* I want her to work there (kind of)
> 1a I suggest that she not work there.
> 2 I suggest that she works there.  *CAN only mean *I believe that she works there.
> 2a I suggest that she doesn't work there.


This is true for the English I speak and write.


Ivan_I said:


> _I suggest you don't go there._ *TO MEAN* _I suggest you not go there._
> 
> Which is, in my opinion, wrong. To back up my conclusion I submit Keith's evaluation of the issue.


It is actually ambiguous in AmE. Besides indicative, it could also be imperative. We would never say "I suggest he don't go there", and "I suggest that you don't go there" would have to be indicative.


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## Ivan_I

Loob said:


> Not correct, I'm afraid.
> See my earlier comment about BrE/AmE differences.


You mention the difference but you don't give an example. Anyway, if "I suggest that she works there." *CAN mean something else than "*I believe that she works there." it is not grammatically correct, but I suppose it is correct in practice. I think it's safe to avoid the second "unknown" to me meaning in speaking.



Forero said:


> It is actually ambiguous in AmE. Besides indicative, it could also be imperative.


That's what I am talking about. If one follows strictly the grammatical correctness then it is not ambiguous. Because "I suggest she works there" is not ambiguous. As for imperative, I don't know how exactly it can be used with suggest.


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## Cagey

I suggest that you accept the fact that American and British English follow different patterns in the use of 'suggest.' 
You are welcome to use the form you prefer, but it makes no sense to claim that native speakers who do it differently are incorrect.


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## Ivan_I

Cagey said:


> You are welcome to use the form you prefer, but it makes no sense to claim that native speakers who do it differently are incorrect.


Why? It makes perfect sense. If it didn't you wouldn't understand what I was talking about This observation just points out the inconsistency between grammatical correctness and practical. It's the same case as "This is him". Strictly speaking, it's not correct to say "This is him" as it should be "This is he". But in practice people do it. I suggest that you accept the notion of "a norm deviation" which exists in any language.


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## Cagey

I suggest you accept the notion that what is the 'norm' for you is not the norm in BE -- nor the norm for all varieties of English.  
To speakers of BE  the American use of the subjunctive may sound affected or, in a word, 'wrong', 

You are allowed to make whatever linguistic choice you prefer; you are not entitled to declare other people's standard usage 'wrong.'


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## Ivan_I

Cagey said:


> I suggest you accept the notion that what is the 'norm' for you is not the norm in BE -- nor the norm for all varieties of English.


Well, if we follow your logic we will conclude there is no norm at all. Or we can come to the point where each person will have their own norm, which is not normal in terms of normal language. 



Cagey said:


> To speakers of BE  the American use of the subjunctive may sound affected or, in a word, 'wrong', You are allowed to make whatever linguistic choice you prefer; you are not entitled to declare other people's standard usage 'wrong.'


I think in terms of my personal opinion I am pretty much entitled to declare that. As a deviation is always not exactly right, hence, whatever is not right is wrong.


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## JamesM

"Well, if we follow your logic we will conclude there is no norm at all. Or we can come to the point where each person will have their own norm, which is not normal in terms of normal language. "

Reductio ad absurdum.

There can be different standards in different variants of English that are supported by each variant's experts.  British English and American English have had differences in standards long before you were born.


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## Loob

JamesM said:


> There can be different standards in different variants of English that are supported by each variant's experts. British English and American English have had differences in standards long before you were born.




You're free to choose which variety you prefer to use as a model, Ivan.

But please don't tell me I speak English incorrectly.


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## Steven David

@Ivan_I, is this what you think or what your idea is about these sentences? I read a couple of your posts, and I think this is what you mean to say. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, this is how I explain the meaning of these sentences.

1) I suggest that she work there. < I want her to work there, and I'm saying this to ensure that she does work there.

2) I suggest that she not work there. < I don't want to her to work there, and I'm saying this to ensure that she does not work there.

3) I suggest that she works there. < I believe it's possible that she works there. This is not a likely sentence, but that's another story. Some people would use this in place of the first sentence above.

4) I suggest that she doesn't work there. < I believe it is possible that she doesn't work there. This is not a likely sentence, but that's another story. Some people would use this in place of the second sentence above.

5) I suggest that she should work there. < This, as far as I know, is British English. It is very unlikely in American English though not 100% impossible. This is used to convey the same meaning as the first sentence above.

6) I suggest that she should not work there. < This, as far as I know, is British English. It is very unlikely in American English though not 100% impossible. This is used to convey the same meaning as the second sentence above.


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## Loob

I think you're very probably right that this is how Ivan sees things, Steven.


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## Ivan_I

JamesM, 
I don't think that if someone says that they use the method called *Reductio ad absurdum*. it really means that this method is free of absurdity.  

*"There can be different standards in different variants of English that are supported by each variant's experts."* - Absolutely correct. But it's not applicable in this case. Because it's rather a lack of standard, a careless mixture than a standard. You are trying to use the power of authority referring to the fact that some differences can be established while my approach is purely logical. 
If A=A and B=A then there is something wrong with a B as a B should be a B.

They shouldn't mean the same.
*
I suggest that she not work there. - I suggest that she doesn't work there.*

By the way, submit a proof by a well-known grammarian who would advocate the usage you call correct.


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## dojibear

Ivan_I said:


> This observation just points out the inconsistency between grammatical correctness and practical.



"Grammatical correctness" means "this follows the rules defined by *one* grammar of English".
There are several different grammars of English. However, every grammar of English attempts
to *describe *the actual language that people speak. No grammar of English *defines* the language.

English speakers are lucky. Americans can understand Brits and Australians. That is not true for
speakers of Chinese or Arabic. There, people from 1,000 km apart cannot understand each other.

Even so, there are hundreds of differences (vocabulary and syntax) between AE and BE.


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## Ivan_I

Steven David said:


> @Ivan_I, is this what you think or what your idea is about these sentences?


Yes.


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## RM1(SS)

Ivan_I said:


> my approach is purely logical.


There's your mistake.


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## Steven David

Ivan_I said:


> Yes.




I understand the point you are making here about including third person /s/ in present subjunctive sentences.

To convey the exact meaning that someone wants to communicate with present subjunctive, it is necessary to leave out /s/ with third person singular. However, if someone does not do this, then it is very unlikely that there would be anything lost in the meaning that someone wants to communicate. Technically, there is a difference between these two types of sentences. They don't really mean the exact same thing.

This is such a very fine point that if someone chooses to use third person /s/ with present subjunctive, again, there would be no misunderstanding, and most people would not even notice. However, some people would notice. Just the same, no one would say anything about it, and it wouldn't be a big deal.

I leave out third person /s/ in this type of sentence. This topic is really about present subjunctive and how people use present subjunctive, not just about the verb "suggest". To illustrate the point we want to make, it would be easier to use a different verb.

In the sentence below, it is correct to use third person /s/. The speaker is defending the fact that someone tells the truth all the time and is asserting that someone tells the truth all the time.

He never tells the truth.

Yes, he does. Why do you say that?

You seem rather insistent about this.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am.* I insist that he tells the truth* all the time. How can you not recognize this?

But he never tells the truth.

In this next dialogue, it seems that there's a chance that someone is not going to tell the truth, and the speaker wants to ensure that this person tells the truth. This is an interrogation of some type.

He can't seem to get his story straight.

I think we've questioned him enough for now.

No, I don't think we're going to be finished here until he tells the whole truth.

I think we'd better call it a day and go home.

No, I disagree.* I insist that he tell the truth* right now.

_______________

The two dialogues above illustrate the difference between these two sentences.

I insist that he tells the truth. < A person who says this is defending this as a fact.

I insist that he tell the truth. < A person who says this believes that someone is not going to tell the truth and wants to ensure that it happens.

Back to "suggest"

Are you suggesting that he never *tells* the truth about anything? < Are you saying that he never tells truth? Is that what you believe? Is that what you are asserting?

Are you suggesting that he never *tell* the truth about this? < Are you saying that you want him to be quiet about the truth so that no one finds out about this?

With the above two sentences, as well, we can see that there is a clear difference between using third person /s/ and not using third person /s/.

Finding pairs of examples that clearly illustrate the difference between using third person /s/ and not using third person /s/ is very difficult. It's a rather fine distinction, and, again, most people don't even think about this or notice it.

In other words, if some people use third person /s/ in what is supposed to be a present subjunctive sentence, then that's what happens. It's very unlikely that there would be any sort of misunderstanding. In fact, I bet there would never be any sort of misunderstanding based on using third person /s/ or not using third person /s/ with present subjunctive.

Again, as I said before, I leave out third person /s/ for present subjunctive sentences. This is a rather fine distinction that I appreciate and take notice of.

However, not everyone takes notice of this. Some people don't even know about it.

In American English news articles, we do find present subjunctive sentences now and then, and if such a sentence requires that third person /s/ be left out, then journalists usually do this.

So they adhere to this present subjunctive rule: leave out third person /s/. However, not everyone follows this rule and uses present subjunctive in this way. Unless there are two sentences to compare, not leaving out third person /s/ still conveys the same meaning. In other words, not leaving out third person /s/ can still convey subjunctiveness. 

However, if I had it my way, I would suggest and insist that everyone leave out third person /s/ in present subjunctive sentences. This would make English just a little bit more subjunctive friendly.


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## velisarius

British English has become rather subjunctive-unfriendly. It often sounds over-formal or pompous to us, so it's not very suitable for casual conversations or even for informal writing. Choosing the wrong word or phrasing for the register in which you are writing is a stylistic error. 

There are indications that the mandative subjunctive after _suggest that...it's important that... _etc_. is_ being used more often in BE in recent years.


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## PaulQ

Ivan_I said:


> You are trying to use the power of authority referring to the fact that some differences can be established while my approach is purely logical.
> If A=A and B=A then there is something wrong with a B as a B should be a B.


You seem to be labouring under the delusion that there are rules in English: there are not. The very best that can ever be said of a language is _"When this example was reordered, the majority of people used it in that way."_ You will see that this is always historical data.

I would refer you to the example of a river: if you take a sample of the water and analyse it today, then you will get one result. If you do it in one year's time, or you do it at another place, you will get another - thus we have several acceptable varieties of water that are still "water".  So it is with English.

Not only is the above true but the truth is demonstrated by the development - the unstoppable evolution - of English in separate communities. You are not going to tell me that the Russian of the Moscow élite is the same Russian as the forest worker in Yakutsk.

This is how one language changes to another and why we are not all speaking exactly the same language.

There are also other problems that I pointed out here: Would rather / sooner / prefer to


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