# N + 8 = Night?



## ronanpoirier

I once heard that in all European languages the word "night" was made by the letter "n" + the number "eight" with some little modifications. Is it true? What about other languages? I don't remember now if it was European languages or Indo-European languages... but we'll see...

My opinions is that they were talking about Indo-European languages because of this:

Hungarian:

8 = Nyolc
Night = Éjjel


So, what about your languages?


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## ireney

I think this is a clear case of paretymological explanation.

Yes, νύχτα/νύκτα sounds somewhat like οχτώ/οκτώ. (nychta/nykta - ochto/okto) but that's just because their IE roots have a similar sound.

*nyk-t* >*nek*t and *okto*u)


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## !netko!

I never thought about that, but it seems to be true in English, Spanish, Italian, German and, I think, French. How strange...

Not in my language though: Croatian:  eight- *osam *  night- *noć*


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## Lugubert

Not too close in Swedish: 8 = åtta, night = natt
Even less in Danish: otte, nat

But like ireney wrote, considering the proposed Proto-Indo-European roots, similarities should be common among IE languages.


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## neli

In slovenia is not right
8= osem
night= noč


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## Stéphane89

*French:*

8 = Huit
Night = Nuit

*Dutch:*

8 = Acht
Night = Nacht


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## Whodunit

!netko! said:


> I never thought about that, but it seems to be true in English (n + eight = night), Spanish (n + ocho = noche), Italian (n + otto = notte), German (n + acht = Nacht  ) and, I think, French (n + huit = nuit). How strange...
> 
> Not in my language though: Croatian: eight- *osam *night- *noć*


 
Well, they don't match accurately in the languages you mentioned except for German. Other languages:

Afro-Asiaic: Arabic:   ن + ثمانية = ليل (n + thamaaniya = layl)
Japonic: Japanese: な　+ 八(はち)　= ニクス　 (na + hachi = nikusu)
Indo-European: Albanian: n + tetë = natë (_not very close, but likely_)

To summarize the last posts: It works in all Indo-European languages. Neli, Lugubert, and netko, it does work in your languages, but since there have been several sound shifts, the words "night" and "eight" don't have to match exactly.

Slovenian: n + os(em) = noč
Swedish: n + ått(a) = natt
Croatian: n + os(am) = noć


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## betulina

In Catalan it's not accurate, but quite close:

eight - *vuit*

night - *nit
*


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## DrWatson

Doesn't work in Finnish, so this is probably an Indo-European phenomenon.

8 = *Kahdeksan*
Night = *Yö*


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## Mutichou

In German:
8: acht and night: Nacht
In Spanish:
8: ocho and night: noche
In Italian:
8: otto and night: notte

It works more or less, but I had never noticed this.


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## robbie_SWE

It actually makes sense! 

Romanian:
8 = opt
night = noapte

Italian: 
8 = otto
night = notte

But I think (hope) that it is a coincidence. Did our ancestors really have this lack of fantasy?? 

 robbie


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## Flaminius

Whodunit said:


> Japonic: Japanese: な　+ 八(はち)　= ニクス　 (na + hachi = nikusu)



Japanese word for night is よる _yoru_.  ニクス sounds like our transcription for Greek νυξ.  (Just wondering where you got that from.)


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## Whodunit

I must have confused something. Yes, it's the transcription of νυξ "nyx."

By the way, wouldn't you rather use the kanji 夜 for "night?"


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## Etcetera

*In Russian*: night - ночь, eight - восемь (old form осемь).


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## Maja

In Serbian: 

eight- osam (осам)
  night- noć (ноћ)


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## Marga H

In Polish:
night - noc
8 - osiem


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## Abu Bishr

It works in Afrikaans:

ag = eight

nag = night

pronounced like Dutch "acht" & "nacht" except for the "t" at the end.


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## Tisia

Persian:
hasht= 8
Shab= night

Kurdish:
hasht= 8
Shaw= night

Finnish:
kahdeksan= 8
Yö= night

emem....doesn't work
Tisia


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## panjabigator

Panjabi:

raat-night
aTh-8

Doesn't work

Spanish:

night-noche
eight-ocho

Pretty close


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## Tisia

panjabigator said:


> Panjabi:
> raat-night
> aTh-8
> Doesn't work


 
It works panjabigator. You just have to bend the 'r' a bit, then it becomes n+aat=naat.
Tisia


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## panjabigator

It is close in only vowel sounds.  The "t" and "Th" sounds are different.  The first is a dental t (tongue goes against the teeth) and the second is a retroflex aspirated t (tongue on palate with an aspiration).  They sound different, so the only thing in common is the vowel sound.  Also, /raat/ comes from the Sanskrit /raatri/ which is different from the Sanskrit word for eight, which I don't know, but it is different.


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## Lugubert

panjabigator said:


> the Sanskrit word for eight [...] is different.


It is aSTa, that is with two retroflexed consonants. Alternative nom/voc/ack form aSTau, looking like a dual. Very fitting for the super-dual 2x2x2.


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## sarcie

At first glance, doesn't work in Irish:

8 : ocht
night : oíche

BUT
*to*night : an*ocht*

Curioser and curiouser...


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## karuna

*In Latvian* "night" is _nakts. _BTW, the Sanskrit word is _nakta.
_Eight is _astoņi. _Not much similarity except a and t.


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## ceann-feachd

sarcie said:


> At first glance, doesn't work in Irish:
> 
> 8 : ocht
> night : oíche
> 
> BUT
> *to*night : an*ocht*
> 
> Curioser and curiouser...



It's similar in Scottish.

8: ochd
night: oidhche
toight: a-n*ochd*


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## kelt

Ok guys, there are similarities in most of IE languages, but what does it tell us?
A night has 8 hours? Or No Eight (of something) is the night? What do you think?


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## Nizo

Esperanto:

8=ok
N+8 = nok
night = nokto

Close!


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## 0stsee

In Indonesian it doesn't work at all.
The title of this thread should be changed to:

*(Indo-)European Languages: N + 8 = Night?*


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## Frank06

*Hi,*

*I have moved a few posts from the Other Languages forum to the EHL forum.*
*I suggest that we use this thread to give more examples. *

*Attempts to explain things can be posted in the EHL thread).*

*Groetjes,*

*Frank*
*Moderator OL and EHL*


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## OneStroke

When I saw this thread I quickly compared it to French and I thought oh, how amazing! 

It doesn't work in Chinese either: 晚 (wan) = night, 八 (ba) = eight


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## bibax

Lugubert said:


> It is aSTa, that is with two retroflexed consonants. Alternative nom/voc/ack form aSTau, looking like a dual. Very fitting for the super-dual 2x2x2.


PIE **oktou* is a dual (strongly contracted) form, it means something like "4 on both sides" (you can show two open hands w/o thumbs), the numeral 4 was reduced to the mere *kt*;

Protoslavic:
night: **noktь* (i-stem) > noc [nots], noć, noč, ночь /nočь/, etc.
eight: **osmъ* (*os*-mъ, os- < *ok't- < *okt-) was ordinal numeral (8th), later taken as cardinal numeral (8): osm, osem, osiem, osam, восемь /vosemь, prosthetic v-/, etc.;


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## clamor

In Armenian (an Indo-European language):
*Night: gisher, kisher
*Eight: ut'ə


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## Ballenero

As you know, Basque is not an Indo-European language, so here it doesn't work.

Night ~ Gau
Eight ~ Zortzi


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## Zec

As has been shown by Indic, Iranian, Baltic and Slavic examples, this is not even an Indo-European coincidence: "night" and "eight" are similar only in Centum languages.

We can reconstruct Proto-Indo-European "eight" as *Hoḱtōw and "night" as *nokʷt-... vaguely similar, but remember that *ḱ and *kʷ were different sounds in Proto-Indo-European and it would be unfair to subjectively ignore this difference.

At this point, it would be very contrived to try and find a similarity... it would be like deriving English "sick" from "dig", because you might get sick from contaminated dirt if you dig too much!

Now, in the so-called Centum languages (except Greek), *ḱ and *kʷ merge before a consonant, and in those languages which drop the final vowel "night" really does become "n + eight", but this is an artifact of sound changes. In the so called Satem languages, *ḱ and *kʷ become quite distinct and existing similarity is lost.


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