# útlevél ...ba vagy ....hoz?



## rovaniemi

Sziasztok!

I've been trying to translate "Passport to the Portuguese language" into Hungarian and the translation that was given to me by a Hungarian friend is "Útlevél a portugálhoz". But my basic knowledge of Hungarian doesnt let me figure out why she used -hoz suffix and not -ba. You say in Hungarian "útlevél a jovobe" "útlevél a paradicsomba" so why "útlevél a portugálba" is wrong? I believe it's exactly the same context and situation but maybe I'm missing something.

Koszi!


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## francisgranada

I don't understand very well what "passport" means in this case ... But "útlevél a paradicsomba" or "útlevél Portugáliába" mean that having the passport, you can _physically _enter "into" the paradise or Portugal.  In case of "passport to the language" this "passport" may help you _to approach _the language, rather than _to travel into it_ (that's why -hoz and not -ba). At least, this is my understanding of the difference ...


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## rovaniemi

Thanks Francisgranada, now I understand the difference, -ba/be is used when we talk about a space that can be entered physically, be it a country, the paradise or even the future A language is not a physical space, thats why -ba doesnt work here.


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## francisgranada

De nada . We could surely find also cases when -ba is used figuratively without meaning a true "physical entering", but apparently not in this case. Em qual sentido usas nesse caso a palavra "passport"? É um manual? ...


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## rovaniemi

Sim, é um manual de português língua estrangeira. O manual como um passaporte, ou seja, como uma ferramenta que dá acesso à língua


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## francisgranada

Não sei se a palavra "útlevél" seja a tradução ótima nesse caso. But let's continue in English ... If this passport is something like a guide, then "útmutató" or "bevezető" would be perhaps better. But let's wait for other opinions, too.


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## Zsanna

I agree with francis even about _útmutató_, _bevezető_ (or maybe even_segítség_) being a bit better than the equivalent of _passport_ but itreally depends on what you want to express to start with.

If it is something that is supposed to provide a guide/help to learningPortuguese then the idea is not to get "into the middle of"it (-ba/-be) but just to be able _approach_(-hoz,-hez,-höz)it, to provide help "for the journey towards it" - which is the meaning of the suffix (as you probably know).


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## Akitlosz

Passport to Portugal = Útlevél Portugáliá*ba*.

Passport to the Portuguese language. = Útlevél a portugál nyelv*hez*.

"why "útlevél a portugálba" is wrong?"

This is really wrong, because the question *hová = where* appeal three possible endings:

1. -ra, -re
2. -ba, -be
3. -hoz -hëz, -höz

but these terminals are not interchangeable.

Sorry, you need to learn when to use them.

In fact, because it is a different grammatical case.

Portugáliá*ba* = *illativus
*portugál*hoz = allativus
*
The Hungarian language has 18 different grammatical cases.

*nominativus:* portugál = Portuguese
*accusativus:* porutgál*t *= Portuguese     
*dativus:* portugál*nak* = *to* the Portuguese    
*comitativus:* portugál*lal* = *with* Portuguese
*finalis: *    portugál*ért = for* Portuguese
*translativus:*    portugál*lá *for example: Portugál*lá* vált. = He became Portuguese.
*inessivus:* portugál*ban* = *in* the Portuguese
*superessivus*: portugál*on* = *on* the Portuguese
*adessivus:* portugál*nál*  =  *at* the Portuguese
*illativus:* portugál*ba  *=  *to* the Portuguese
*sublativus:* portugál*ra* =  *onto* the Portuguese.
*allativus:* portugál*hoz* =  *to* the Portuguese.
*elativus: *portugál*ból* = *from* the Portuguese.
*delativus: *portugál*ról* = *from* the Portuguese.
*ablativus:* portugál*tól* = *from* the Portuguese.
*terminativus:* portugál*ig *= *until* the Portuguese.
*essivus-formalis:  *portugál*ként* = *as* Portuguese.
*essivus-modalis: *  portugál*ul* = in Portuguese or for example: Vitéz*ül* harcol. = He fights valiantly.

And then 9 not cases:

*genitivus:* portugál*nak a* portugál*ja* = Portuguese*'s* Portuguese.
*distributivus:* portugál*(on)ként* = *per* Portuguese or for example: fejen*ként* = *per* head
*distributivus-temporalis:* nap*onta* = dai*ly*
*formalis: *portugál*képpen* = _Portuguese*ly*_*
sociativus:* portugálo*stu*l = *with/in*
*locativus:* Pécs*ëtt* = *in* Pécs
(I never use that. The Hungarians' majority uses instead of *locativus* (*-ott, -ëtt, -ött*) *superessivus *(*-on, -ën, -ön*) or *inessivus *(*-ban, -ben*)
*temporalis:* óra*kor* = *at* ... clocks
*modalis-essivus:* portugál*(os)an* = for example: Portugál*osan* fogalmaz. = He composes on a Portuguese manner. 
*multiplicativus:* öt*ször* = five *times*


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