# Choice of genitive vs accusative



## Lorenc

It is a basic rule of Polish grammar that the direct object should be in the genitive case in negated sentences, eg _kupuję gazetę_ / _nie kupuję gazety_.
It seems to me, however, that `_nie_' has the effect of changing accusatives into genitives also when the logical object of the sentence is not the direct object of the negated verb.
For example, consider
_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazety!_
As far as I understand the sentence above is correct with `gazeta' in the genitive, while the sentence
_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!_
is (marginally?) incorrect. It does not quite follow from logic that `gazeta' should be in the genitive as it is the direct object of 'kupić' (which is not directly accompanied by `nie') and not of 'zapomnij'.

And how about:
_Nie wiedziałem, że miałem ci kupić gazety! 
_vs
_Nie wiedziałem, że miałem ci kupić gazetę! 
_ 
Or even:
_Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym ci kupił gazety!_
vs
_Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym ci kupił gazetę!

_Which of the above is the correct option? 

On a similar note, consider a sentence like:
I'm not doing this because I like it, but because it has to be done.

Which of the following structures is preferable?

_Robię to, nie dlatego, że to lubię, ale dlatego, że trzeba to (z)robić._
vs
_Nie robię tego, dlatego, że to lubię, ale dlatego, że trzeba to (z)robić._


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## jasio

Lorenc said:


> It is a basic rule of Polish grammar that the direct object should be in the genitive case in negated sentences, eg _kupuję gazetę_ / _nie kupuję gazety_.
> It seems to me, however, that `_nie_' has the effect of changing accusatives into genitives also when the logical object of the sentence is not the direct object of the negated verb.


Looks so, indeed. Negative statements seem to require genitive, at least in simple phrases and phrases with modal verbs. 



Lorenc said:


> For example, consider
> _Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazety!_
> As far as I understand the sentence above is correct with `gazeta' in the genitive, while the sentence
> _Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!_
> is (marginally?) incorrect.


I would say, it's *simply* incorrect. 



Lorenc said:


> And how about:
> _Nie wiedziałem, że miałem ci kupić gazety!
> _vs
> _Nie wiedziałem, że miałem ci kupić gazetę!
> _


It's a compound statement, isn't it? So it's different than the example above, because the subordinate clause is in indicative mode, hence accusative is used.
*Note*: actually both phrases happen to be correct, because plural accusative and singular genitive are identical in this case. The former phrase means 'I didn't know that I was to buy newspaper*s* for you'.



Lorenc said:


> Or even:
> _Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym ci kupił gazety!_
> vs
> _Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym ci kupił gazetę!
> _


_
Same as above, the latter is correct in singular, and the former in plural, in both cases accusative case is used. 

_


Lorenc said:


> I'm not doing this because I like it, but because it has to be done.
> 
> Which of the following structures is preferable?
> 
> _Robię to, nie dlatego, że to lubię, ale dlatego, że trzeba to (z)robić._
> vs
> _Nie robię tego, dlatego, że to lubię, ale dlatego, że trzeba to (z)robić._


Both variants are correct, but they slightly differ in meaning. The former says: "I'm doing it not because I like it, but because it has to be done", while the latter "I'm not doing it because I like it, but because it has to be done". I'm not 100% sure that the English version fully reflects the nuance, but the former phrase sounds stronger and more positive than the latter.


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## jasio

jasio said:


> *Note*: actually both phrases happen to be correct, because plural accusative and singular genitive are identical in this case. The former phrase means 'I didn't know that I was to buy newspaper*s* for you'.



It's because "gazeta" is of feminine grammatical gender. Please compare similar phrases with masculine noun "długopis" ('a pen'):

"Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym kupił ci długopis" (accusative, singular)
"*Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym kupił ci długopisu" (genitive, singular - INCORRECT!)
"Nie wiedziałem, że chciałeś, żebym kupił ci długopisy" (accusative, plural)


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## Ben Jamin

jasio said:


> For example, consider
> _Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazety!
> As far as I understand the sentence above is correct with `gazeta' in the genitive, while the sentence
> Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!
> is (marginally?) incorrect._
> 
> I would say, it's *simply* incorrect.



I wouldn't say that. I would say it is dubious, but many people would just say it is correct. The bond between negation and the direct object is weakened when the object is separated from the predicate by so many elements. Remember that grammatical rules are deduced from usage and are not absolute.


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## Ben Jamin

After some reflection I came to a conclusion that "_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!", is _actually a more logical choice, as we don't negate the word "kupić" but the word "zapomnieć", that is: "_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!" = _"_Kup mi gazetę!".
_Another confusing factor is that the verb "zapomnieć" may be followed by either a substantive in genitive or in accusative, with a slightly different implied meaning*. 

*_"zapomnieć" + __accusative  means that we forgot about the existence of something, while "zapomnieć" + genitive means that we forgot to perform an action on the thing, usually to take it with us. This distinction, is often forgotten and the use of cases confused. The similarity of case endings between accusative and genitive in many instances also plays a role here_


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## marco_2

Ben Jamin said:


> After some reflection I came to a conclusion that "_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!", is _actually a more logical choice, as we don't negate the word "kupić" but the word "zapomnieć", that is: "_Nie zapomnij kupić mi gazetę!" = _"_Kup mi gazetę!".
> _Another confusing factor is that the verb "zapomnieć" may be followed by either a substantive in genitive or in accusative, with a slightly different implied meaning*.
> 
> *_"zapomnieć" + __accusative  means that we forgot about the existence of something, while "zapomnieć" + genitive means that we forgot to perform an action on the thing, usually to take it with us. This distinction, is often forgotten and the use of cases confused. The similarity of case endings between accusative and genitive in many instances also plays a role here_



Yeah, there was a discussion in the 1960s over the song _"Zapomniałam Twoje oczy" _whether the lyrics are correct and they came to the conclusion that in this particular poetic context everything is all right - _zapomniałam twoich oczu _would sound macabre.


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## Lorenc

Thank you all for your very interesting answers!
I have another doubt regarding the choice of genitive or accusative.
Consider the sentence:
_Nie wymagaj od niego zbyt wiele: dopiero co zrobił dyplom i to są jego początki._

The doubt is on whether it should be `wiele' or `wielu'. My understanding is that in the sentence above `wiele' is the only correct choice, because in this case 'wiele' is an adverb and hence indeclinable. Consider however a sentence of the kind:
_Nie wymagaj od niego zbyt wielu poświęceń.
_(don't demand of him too many secrifices)

In this case `wiele' works as a numeral and therefore I'd expect the genitive `wielu' rather than `... zbyt wiele poświęceń'. Correct?


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## jasio

Lorenc said:


> Thank you all for your very interesting answers!
> I have another doubt regarding the choice of genitive or accusative.
> Consider the sentence:
> _Nie wymagaj od niego zbyt wiele: dopiero co zrobił dyplom i to są jego początki._
> 
> The doubt is on whether it should be `wiele' or `wielu'. My understanding is that in the sentence above `wiele' is the only correct choice, because in this case 'wiele' is an adverb and hence indeclinable. Consider however a sentence of the kind:
> _Nie wymagaj od niego zbyt wielu poświęceń.
> _(don't demand of him too many secrifices)
> 
> In this case `wiele' works as a numeral and therefore I'd expect the genitive `wielu' rather than `... zbyt wiele poświęceń'. Correct?



Indeed, 'wiele' can function as several parts of the speech: http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiele. Your analysis seems to be correct. Actually, an interesting hint can be obtained by translating both phrases to English '_Don't demand too *much* from him_', while the latter '_Don't demand too *many* sacrifices_'. Of course, it's not decisive, but still, it may be a hint. 

Anyway, "nie wymagaj zbyt *wiele*", but "nie wymagaj zbyt *wielu* poświęceń" are both correct.


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