# googeln



## Jana337

> Ja (zum Herrn Google   ), man muss Google als Suchmaschine und den Duden als Nachschlagewerk behandeln.



Aha? Und wieso nicht ... man muss *den *Google...

Jana


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## sohc4

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Aha? Und wieso nicht ... man muss *den *Google...


Ich versuch's mal:  Google ist ein Eigenname, deshalb ohne "den". Der Duden (das ist eigentlich auch ein Eigenname) ist ein feststehender Begriff und bekommt deswegen das "den" davor.

"Der Duden" hat sich im Lauf der Jahre vom Eigennamen zum Begriff (wie Buch, Haus) gewandelt.

Ist das verständlich? 

Axl


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## Jana337

sohc4 said:
			
		

> Ich versuch's mal: Google ist ein Eigenname, deshalb ohne "den". Der Duden (das ist eigentlich auch ein Eigenname) ist ein feststehender Begriff und bekommt deswegen das "den" davor.
> 
> "Der Duden" hat sich im Lauf der Jahre vom Eigennamen zum Begriff (wie Buch, Haus) gewandelt.
> 
> Ist das verständlich?
> 
> Axl



Ja, es ist verständlich, leider aber nicht logisch. 
Man sagt also: 
Ich habe es in/mit Google gefunden.
Google ist die beste Suchmaschine.
Ich liebe Google.
Das Leben ohne Google kann ich mir nicht vorstellen.

Oder nicht?

Jana


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## sohc4

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Ja, es ist verständlich, leider aber nicht logisch.
> Man sagt also:
> Ich habe es in/mit Google gefunden.
> Google ist die beste Suchmaschine.
> Ich liebe Google.
> Das Leben ohne Google kann ich mir nicht vorstellen.
> 
> Oder nicht?


obwohl es beim letzten Satz besser "Ein Leben ohne Google..." heissen sollte.

Ansonsten: Sprachlich und inhaltlich richtig !

Axl


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## Whodunit

sohc4 said:
			
		

> "Der Duden" hat sich im Lauf der Jahre vom Eigennamen zum Begriff (wie Buch, Haus) gewandelt.



Das Gleiche gilt auch für "den Brockhaus".


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Das Gleiche gilt auch für "den Brockhaus".


Ich habe gegoogelt aber habe nichts gefunden.  <ducking and running…>


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> Ich habe gegoogelt aber habe nichts gefunden.  <ducking and running…>



Warum nicht? Schau hier.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Warum nicht? Schau hier.


NO! I was making a joke about using Google:

Ich habe *gegoogelt* aber habe nichts gefunden.

Does "gegoogelt" exist????

(Checking)

Oh my God! Results *1* - *10* of about *75,400* for *gegoogelt*.

I thought I made up the word. It exists.  

No wonder you were confused.

Duh!!!

Gaer


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> NO! I was making a joke about using Google:
> 
> Ich habe *gegoogelt* aber habe nichts gefunden.
> 
> Does "gegoogelt" exist????
> 
> (Checking)
> 
> Oh my God! Results *1* - *10* of about *75,400* for *gegoogelt*.
> 
> I thought I made up the word. It exists.
> 
> No wonder you were confused.
> 
> Duh!!!
> 
> Gaer



Although it's not easy to "verb" every noun in German, it yet exists!!! Cool German.


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## enzodava

Gilt's auch für "_den _Wahrig"?


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Although it's not easy to "verb" every noun in German, it yet exists!!! Cool German.


And "googeln" is DEFINITELY a very much used German verb now. I had no idea until today. 

G


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## gaer

enzodava said:
			
		

> Gilt's auch für "_den _Wahrig"?


I will leave that question to the "natives", but a quick check makes me think the answer is "yes". 

Gaer


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## gaer

sohc4 said:
			
		

> Ich versuch's mal: Google ist ein Eigenname, deshalb ohne "den". Der Duden (das ist eigentlich auch ein Eigenname) ist ein feststehender Begriff und bekommt deswegen das "den" davor.


Axl, just for fun:

Results *1* - *10* of about *53* *German* pages for *"der Google ist"*.
Results *1* - *10* of about *89,400* *German* pages for *"Google ist"*. 

Results *1* - *10* of about *78* *German* pages for *"der Google hat"*
Results *1* - *10* of about *97,600* *German* pages for *"Google hat"*.


> "Der Duden" hat sich im Lauf der Jahre vom Eigennamen zum Begriff (wie Buch, Haus) gewandelt.


Now, the interesting point: will "der Google"  become increasingly more common in the future.  

All this is just for fun, of course.  

Gaer


Ist das verständlich? 

Axl[/QUOTE]


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> And "googeln" is DEFINITELY a very much used German verb now. I had no idea until today.
> 
> G



Again, just for fun (let's google):

googlen on German pages: *93,300* results

googeln on German pages: *138,000* results

googelen on German pages: *122* results (this is Dutch)


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> I will leave that question to the "natives", but a quick check makes me think the answer is "yes".
> 
> Gaer



Eh—Gaer or Enzodova—would somebody enlighten me please? I really don't know what you want to know with "den Wahrig" ... Sorry.


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> Now, the interesting point: will "der Google"  become increasingly more common in the future.
> 
> All this is just for fun, of course.



I don't think so. It sounds very strange. Or do you say "the Google" in the US?


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## Jana337

Probably whether der Wahrig is the same case as der Duden - do you need to use the article although it is a name?

Jana


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## Whodunit

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Probably whether der Wahrig is the same case as der Duden - do you need to use the article although it is a name?
> 
> Jana



Ah. Yes, it needs to be used an article. "Der Wahrig". Sorry, I was a bit slow.


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## Cath.S.

sohc4 said:
			
		

> Ich versuch's mal: Google ist ein Eigenname, deshalb ohne "den". Der Duden (das ist eigentlich auch ein Eigenname) ist ein feststehender Begriff und bekommt deswegen das "den" davor.
> 
> "Der Duden" hat sich im Lauf der Jahre vom Eigennamen zum Begriff (wie Buch, Haus) gewandelt.
> 
> Ist das verständlich?
> 
> Axl


You say that over the years_ the status of the word Duden_ has changed, allowing us to place an article before it.
If the same thing happens with Google (it is possible, imho, since in German just like in English and in French it is already used as a verb, it's becoming a household name.)
But my question is, if it ever got an article, would it not be *die *Google, since _suchmaschine_ is feminine?


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> I don't think so. It sounds very strange. Or do you say "the Google" in the US?


Know, but we don't say "der Duden" either.  Just Duden. "It says in Duden".

As for what will happen in the future, we can only guess, right? 

Gaer


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## Ralf

egueule said:
			
		

> ... But my question is, if it ever got an article, would it not be *die *Google, since _suchmaschine_ is feminine?


Hello egueule,
Good question. Basically you are right. But I don't think that the fact that "Suchmaschine" is a feminine noun will affect the choice of an article for Google. Unfortunately the progress of modern usage doesn't follow such logical patterns. You will frequently hear something like "Das habe ich im Google gefunden" or "Das habe ich bei Google gefunden" today, but never "Das habe ich in der Google gefunden". Well, this is all hypothetic. Personally I can't imagine any article to be 'attributed' to Google in the near future, since it would sound downright weird to me. So let ourselves be taken by surprise about what will actually happen. What about us meeting here again in ten years to review if and how the term 'Google' has contributed to the 'evolution' of our language(s)? 

Ralf

P.S. Happy birthday to you and many happy returns of the day.


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## gaer

egueule said:
			
		

> You say that over the years_ the status of the word Duden_ has changed, allowing us to place an article before it.
> If the same thing happens with Google (it is possible, imho, since in German just like in English and in French it is already used as a verb, it's becoming a household name.)
> But my question is, if it ever got an article, would it not be *die *Google, since _suchmaschine_ is feminine?


In fact, you may have an excellent point.

Results *1* - *10* of about *647* *German* pages for *"in der Google Suchmaschine" *(this will be only dative)

Results *1* - *10* of about *1,570* *German* pages for *"der Google Suchmaschine"*. (This is going to pick both dative and genitive usage for feminine)

Results *1* - *10* of about *897* *German* pages for *"die Google Suchmaschine"*

Results *1* - *10* of about *300,000* *German* pages for *"die Google"*. (This is also picking up things such as "*Die* *Google*-Gesellschaft", "*die* *Google*-Suchergebnisse", plurals, etc.

Test for something that uses ONLY Google:

Results *1* - *10* of about *37* *German* pages for *"die Google Suchmaschine ist"*.

Results *1* - *10* of about *40* *German* pages for *"die Google ist"*.

But:

Results *1* - *10* of about *54* *German* pages for *"der Google ist"*.

Still, I'd vote for "die Google", and I do think this is becoming a pattern in German now that I look at it. Opinions from others?

Wow, talk about total topic drift. I don't even know if there is any way for a Mod to split this topic. 

Gaer


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## gaer

Ralf said:
			
		

> Hello egueule,
> Good question. Basically you are right. But I don't think that the fact that "Suchmaschine" is a feminine noun will affect the choice of an article for Google. Unfortunately the progress of modern usage doesn't follow such logical patterns. You will frequently hear something like "Das habe ich im Google gefunden" or "Das habe ich bei Google gefunden" today, but never  "Das habe ich in der Google gefunden".


Results 1 - 6 of about 10 for "in der Google Suchmaschine gefunden". 
Results 1 - 8 of about 42 for "in der Google gefunden".
Results 1 - 10 of about 962 for "im Google gefunden". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 11,000 for "bei Google gefunden". 

Never is a dangerous word to use.  

But "bei Google" is the clear winner, so you will be glad to know that your "feel" is right on the money, again.  

Gaer


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## Cath.S.

Ralf said:
			
		

> Hello egueule,
> Good question. Basically you are right. But I don't think that the fact that "Suchmaschine" is a feminine noun will affect the choice of an article for Google. Unfortunately the progress of modern usage doesn't follow such logical patterns. You will frequently hear something like "Das habe ich im Google gefunden" or "Das habe ich bei Google gefunden" today, but never "Das habe ich in der Google gefunden". Well, this is all hypothetic. Personally I can't imagine any article to be 'attributed' to Google in the near future, since it would sound downright weird to me. So let ourselves be taken by surprise about what will actually happen. What about us meeting here again in ten years to review if and how the term 'Google' has contributed to the 'evolution' of our language(s)?
> 
> Ralf
> 
> P.S. Happy birthday to you and many happy returns of the day.


Danke schön Ralf. 
Whenever an evolution or mere change occurs in language, I suppose it sounds weird to all the people who were born before the new form emerged, and as we grow older we are bound to be shocked by new manners of writing and speaking.
I agree, let's meet here in ten years time, provided that Providence keeps on providing, to discuss the actual evolution.


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> But "bei Google" is the clear winner, so you will be glad to know that your "feel" is right on the money, again.
> 
> Gaer



And this is indeed the only counting sentence here! All the other statement are irrelevant, because English words are rarely used as feminine words in German.


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## sohc4

egueule said:
			
		

> You say that over the years_ the status of the word Duden_ has changed, allowing us to place an article before it.


Yes.


			
				egueule said:
			
		

> If the same thing happens with Google (it is possible, imho, since in German just like in English and in French it is already used as a verb, it's becoming a household name.)
> But my question is, if it ever got an article, would it not be *die *Google, since _suchmaschine_ is feminine?


That would be logical, but language doesn't neccessary follow such rules .  Let me try what sounds best:

Der Google -  naw.
Die Google - maybe.
Das Google -  yes.

To me, "Das Google" would sound best, but that is just my personal point of view.  I may be wrong, though... let's see what happens.

Axl


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## Whodunit

sohc4 said:
			
		

> Der Google -  naw.
> Die Google - maybe.
> Das Google -  yes.
> 
> To me, "Das Google" would sound best, but that is just my personal point of view.  I may be wrong, though... let's see what happens.
> 
> Axl



Yes, to me, too. But it still sounds so weird that it won't ever be in usage, I suppose. Egueule, how do you treat "Google" in French?


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## Jana337

Italians correct me whenever I use an article with Google. 

Jana


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Yes, to me, too. But it still sounds so weird that it won't ever be in usage, I suppose. Egueule, how do you treat "Google" in French?


 
Well, when you use "das Google ist", you get 54 hits, 44 with "die Google". Drop the article and it jumps to over 91,000. To me that's pretty strong evidence for usage! 

Gaer


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## Cath.S.

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Yes, to me, too. But it still sounds so weird that it won't ever be in usage, I suppose. Egueule, how do you treat "Google" in French?


Sorry to be so slow answering you, Who. 
In French we don't use an article (yet). But we do use one for names of dictionaries and other reference books. 

_j'ai cherché ce mot dans *le* [dictionnaire] Robert_. 
Ich habe dieses Wort im Robert [Wörterbuch] gesucht.


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## Whodunit

egueule said:
			
		

> Sorry to be so slow answering you, Who.
> In French we don't use an article (yet). But we do use one for names of dictionaries and other reference books.
> 
> _j'ai cherché ce mot dans *le* [dictionnaire] Robert_.
> Ich habe dieses Wort im Robert [Wörterbuch] gesucht.



Yes, that's what I mean. In German:

Ich habe es *im/in dem* Duden gesucht.
Je l'ai cherché *dans le* Duden.


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## gaer

egueule said:
			
		

> Sorry to be so slow answering you, Who.
> In French we don't use an article (yet). But we do use one for names of dictionaries and other reference books.
> 
> _j'ai cherché ce mot dans *le* [dictionnaire] Robert_.
> Ich habe dieses Wort im Robert [Wörterbuch] gesucht.


Egueule,

This is interesting, because we generally say:

"I looked this word up in THE dictionary." And that's really quite illogical, since we usually mean "a" dictionary. I don't know why we do this in English. 

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> Egueule,
> 
> This is interesting, because we generally say:
> 
> "I looked this word up in THE dictionary." And that's really quite illogical, since we usually mean "a" dictionary. I don't know why we do this in English.
> 
> Gaer



You're right.  We also say "the encyclopedia," "the radio" but "TV" ("I watched TV"; not "I watched the TV.")

I guess you _could _ technically say "I looked this up in a dictionary" but I completely agree with you that that would sound very unusual and uncommon.

Hm...very interesting.


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> You're right. We also say "the encyclopedia," "the radio" but "TV" ("I watched TV"; not "I watched the TV.")
> 
> I guess you _could _technically say "I looked this up in a dictionary" but I completely agree with you that that would sound very unusual and uncommon.
> 
> Hm...very interesting.


Weird. I never thought about that.

We watch TV, we listen to the radio. But why? NO idea! 

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> Weird. I never thought about that.
> 
> We watch TV, we listen to the radio. But why? NO idea!
> 
> Gaer



I have no official basis for this, but I think MAYBE (just maybe) it's because "watching TV" emphasizes the activity as opposed to looking at the TV set.  In German you would just say "fernsehen," so "Ich sehe fern."  I don't know; with the radio example I think the emphasis is more on the fact that you are listening to the radio set.  Hm...what do you say in German, "Ich höre Radio," or "Ich höre das Radio"?


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## Ralf

elroy said:
			
		

> I have no official basis for this, but I think MAYBE (just maybe) it's because "watching TV" emphasizes the activity as opposed to looking at the TV set. In German you would just say "fernsehen," so "Ich sehe fern." I don't know; with the radio example I think the emphasis is more on the fact that you are listening to the radio set. Hm...what do you say in German, "Ich höre Radio," or "Ich höre das Radio"?


If you are listening to the radio it is "Ich höre Radio". However, if there's only sound to be heard (probably from a radio in the room next door) you will say "Ich höre das/ein Radio im Nebenzimmer".

Ralf


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## Whodunit

Ralf said:
			
		

> If you are listening to the radio it is "Ich höre Radio". However, if there's only sound to be heard (probably from a radio in the room next door) you will say "Ich höre das/ein Radio im Nebenzimmer".
> 
> Ralf



If I say "Ich höre das Radio der Nachbarn", you're right. But if I say "Ich höre das Radio (no addition)", I want to mention that I hear any noice of MY own radio. But Ralf's explanation is fully correct.


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## elroy

Ralf said:
			
		

> If you are listening to the radio it is "Ich höre Radio". However, if there's only sound to be heard (probably from a radio in the room next door) you will say "Ich höre das/ein Radio im Nebenzimmer".
> 
> Ralf



Ah...so it's like the difference between "listen to" and "hear."

I *am listening to* the radio. (Ich höre Radio.)

I *can hear* the radio (in the room next door). (Ich höre das Radio [im Nebenzimmer]). 

English keeps the article in both cases and expresses the difference through the verb; German keeps the same verb and expresses the difference through article usage.

Fascinating!


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> If I say "Ich höre das Radio der Nachbarn", you're right. But if I say "Ich höre das Radio (no addition)", I want to mention that I am hearing  a noise from  MY own radio. But Ralf's explanation is fully correct.



Right, that makes sense.  

"any" doesn't mean "irgend" here...


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## gaer

Ralf said:
			
		

> If you are listening to the radio it is "Ich höre Radio". However, if there's only sound to be heard (probably from a radio in the room next door) you will say "Ich höre das/ein Radio im Nebenzimmer".
> 
> Ralf


How about:

"Ich höre fern." 
"Ich sehe Fernseher"  

Of couse I'm kidding!

But it's also silly that we don't say:

I watch TV, I hear radio. This inconsistencies make learning a new language hell, but it also makes things interesting. 

But, why are all these interesting topics appearing under "hätte machen müssen"???

Gaer

Gaer


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## Ralf

gaer said:
			
		

> How about:
> 
> "Ich höre fern."
> "Ich sehe Fernseher"  ....


Good Morning, Gaer,

You are not completely off the track. We actually say "Ich sehe fern" or "Ich schaue Fernsehen". Although the second phrase seems to be a bit old-fashioned and sounds stylistically horrible (at least to my ears) it will be heard now and then.

Ralf


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## gaer

Ralf said:
			
		

> Good Morning, Gaer,
> 
> You are not completely off the track. We actually say "Ich sehe fern" or "Ich schaue Fernsehen". Although the second phrase seems to be a bit old-fashioned and sounds stylistically horrible (at least to my ears) it will be heard now and then.
> 
> Ralf


I know about "Ich sehe fern".

My joke was about "Ich höre fern".  

Gaer


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## Ralf

gaer said:
			
		

> ...My joke was about "Ich höre fern".
> 
> Gaer


No problem with a defective screen. 

Ralf


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## Whodunit

Ralf said:
			
		

> Good Morning, Gaer,
> 
> You are not completely off the track. We actually say "Ich sehe fern" or "Ich schaue Fernsehen". Although the second phrase seems to be a bit old-fashioned and sounds stylistically horrible (at least to my ears) it will be heard now and then.
> 
> Ralf



Hm, what is old-fashioned for you? "Ich schaue Fernesehen" seems to be old-fashioned to me, too, because I would definitely say "Ich gucke Fernsehen". I hate expressions like "Ich gucke/schaue/sehe fern", since that indicates at my point of view:

Ah, der Turm ist aber hoch. Ich sehe richtig fern. (doesn't work, I know, but that's how _I_ would interpret fern sehen", not "fernsehen", you know?)


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## Whodunit

gaer said:
			
		

> I know about "Ich sehe fern".
> 
> My joke was about "Ich höre fern".
> 
> Gaer



Hm, you joke won't be a joke any more, if I add "den" and "...seher".


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