# Scandinavian languages: subjunctive



## Gavril

In Icelandic, separate subjunctive forms of the verb are still alive and commonly used (e.g., _sé _is the subjunctive counterpart of _er _"is"). Is the subjunctive still common in any of the Scandinavian languages, whether in their written or spoken forms?

If not, are there any isolated subjunctive forms still in use (just as, for example, "correct" English still has the unique subjunctive form _be_, rather than _is, are,_ etc.)?

Ta(c)k(k)


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## Åvävvla

As far as I know it's pretty much dead in mainlaind Scandinavian, and has been for quite some time. In Swedish, for example, subjunctive still exist in set phrases such as _tack vare, banne mig_ and in religious language (_Herren välsigne er och bevare er_). In case you read Swedish, you might want to read the Swedish Wikipedia entry konjunktiv.


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## Alxmrphi

Føroyskt still has it in some expresses and productive uses in like one or two verbs, like _Gudi *signi* Føroyar _and _Hann leingi *livi*_!
(Notice the final -r is missing from the regular mood, just like what happens in Icelandic)

You can be productive with *geva* and *hava*, however:

*Gævi* at hann skjótt kom heim (I wish that he'd come home soon)
*Gævi* eg aldrin sá hatta .........(I wish I'd never seen that)
*Gævi* hon vann..................... (I wish she'd win)

*Hevði* tað nú gingist teimum væl (I wish that things would go well for them now)
*Hevði *eg nú verið yngri............. (I wish I were younger)

Again, here, you can see the similar classes of Icelandic verbs with the a->æ shift of Icelandic's "gefa" and a->e of Icelandic's "hafa" in the preterite subjunctive.
That's it for Faroese though, regarding the subjunctive. In Standard Scandinavian, the subjunctive was lost a long long time ago.


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## NorwegianNYC

Alxmrphi - Subjunctive in the other Scandinavian languages not as much disappeared as merged with other forms - especially infinitive.


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## Alxmrphi

NorwegianNYC said:


> Alxmrphi - Subjunctive in the other Scandinavian languages not as much disappeared as merged with other forms - especially infinitive.


Ah, that's what I'd call disappeared.
Maybe others would disagree, but becoming indistinguishable with other moods is what I personally would classify as disappearing (i.e. the distinction separating it from other forms has been eliminated). It's like Old English having its plural words that didn't have _-s _then merging with the _-s_ forms, I wouldn't say they still existed after they all merged together.


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## NorwegianNYC

I can see that. However, subjunctive is sometimes still used, but I believe the declined was due similarities and confusion with other forms. Norwegian still uses the so-called 'hypothetical subjunctive', where a shift in the verb's tense creates a subjunctive meaning. This is similar to English ("If I were you" and "We would like to go now")


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## Ben Jamin

Alxmrphi said:


> Ah, that's what I'd call disappeared.
> Maybe others would disagree, but becoming indistinguishable with other moods is what I personally would classify as disappearing (i.e. the distinction separating it from other forms has been eliminated). It's like Old English having its plural words that didn't have _-s _then merging with the _-s_ forms, I wouldn't say they still existed after they all merged together.



In Norwegian the subjunctive forms certainly disappeared long time ago, but a periphrastic form of subjunctive constructions survived until the end of the last century, and is still used by older speakers (specially in writing). 
Old form: Jeg vil at du skal gjøre det.
New form: Jeg vil at du gjør det.


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## NorwegianNYC

Ben Jamin - Perhaps I misunderstand, but I would definitely say the latter form is more akin to subjunctive than the first (which is future tense)


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## bicontinental

This is an interesting question Gavril . The conjugation of Danish verbs doesn´t include specific subjunctive or conditional verbal forms or moods, in other words there are *no specific subjunctive verbal forms* recognizable as such out of context. A *subjunctive or conditional construction* is therefore created by using the available verbal forms in a different tense (referred to as “verbalomskrivning”). This typically, although not exclusively, is done by using the past tense or the infinitive… very much comparable to what we see in modern English.


  -As such there is the hypothetical scenario:
_Hvis det skulle regne i morgen, vil udflugten være aflyst_ (the subjunctive: _If it were to rain tomorrrow...)_
_Hvis det regner i morgen, er udflugten aflyst_ (the indicative: _If it rains tomorrow…)_
  I would use number one if I feel it is very unlikely that it will rain. I checked the weather forecast and they predict sunshine all day tomorrow, but if it were to rain (nevertheless)… 
  I would use number two if I feel there´s a possibility that it may rain. It´s been raining all week and if it rains (again) tomorrow… 


_Hvis jeg var dig_....(the subjuntive: _If I were you)_
_Kunne det tænkes, at han var morderen (_the subjuntive: might it be possible that...)


  -To express wishes, hopes:
  Long *live *the Queen, the centenarian etc._Længe* leve* dronningen, den hundredårige osv._ 

  In religious contexts e.g. The Lord´s Prayer:  _Helliget vorde/*være*/blive dit navn, *komme* dit rige_ (Hallowed *be* Thy Name, Thy Kingdom *come*), _Herren *være* med jer_ (The Lord *be* with you).


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## Den falska sköldpaddan

In Swedish, the subjunctive of the present tense is purely archaic, as in the biblical phrase "*Varde* ljus", _May there be light_. But the subjunctive of the past tense is still in active use in a few verbs: "Om jag *vore*, om jag *finge*",_ If I were, if I were allowed to._


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## LilianaB

What about a construction: Det vore bra om du gjorde det? I thought that was just a conditional mood. How is it different from _Om jag vore_, _om jag finge_? Do you mean the latter forms are just polite expressions, as in: if you allow me to tell you, or something similar? Thank you.


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## alato

LilianaB said:


> What about a construction: Det vore bra om du gjorde det? I thought that was just a conditional mood. How is it different from _Om jag vore_, _om jag finge_? Do you mean the latter forms are just polite expressions, as in: if you allow me to tell you, or something similar? Thank you.



There is a difference between

_Om jag vore du, skulle jag göra det_, and
_Det vore bra om du gjorde det._

is that in the former, _vore _occurs in the conditional clause, whereas it occurs in the main clause in the latter. Though you are right in that _vore_ also expresses the conditional mood, and can replace _skulle vara_ whenever this is used in a conditional sense. This is what happens in the second example. The conditional form _skulle_ + infinitive is often also used without (explicit) conditions to express polite requests, and _vore_ can be used in these situations as well. (Note however, that _vore_ cannot replace _skulle vara_ when this is used as future-in-the-past; *_Igår skrev han att han vore bortrest idag_ is not correct Swedish.)

What gives _vore_ its subjunctive qualities in _Om jag vore du, skulle jag göra det _is that it expresses a counterfactual condition. The difference between _Om jag vore du, ..._ and _Om jag är du, ..._ is the same as the difference between the English _If I were you_ and _If I am you_. _Om jag är du, ..._ really concedes that I am you, and is probably rarely uttered in serious contexts.


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## LilianaB

Thank you. Would you consider the second sentence, or the _vore_ in the second sentence, a subjunctive use, too?


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## alato

No, I'd just call that a conditional. So to clarify, I think the form vore has two meanings, only one of which is subjunctive.


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## LilianaB

Thank you.


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## HappyDance9

So... if there were to be a subjunctive in Norwegian.. how would it be formed?

Would it be formed using "skulle".


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## Sepia

The only "real" subjunctive you are likely to hear in Danish is when the priest says "Herren være med jer" - "May the Lord be with you". Even when Danes quote Star Wars they'd probably even use the original "May the Force be with you" and not whichever translation they had in the subtitles.

No, subjunctive is made with auxiliary verbs or with other constructions like "Hvis bare jeg var rig". "Var" is probably what is left of a subjunctive and has lost the suffix that might distinguish it from the past tense. Hvis vi havde en konjunktiv, så behøvede vi ikke disse mærkelige konstruktioner, der kan forveksles med datid.

Even English has more left - at least you can say "If I were rich" and not "If I was rich" - although some people say that too - but that would not work in Danish.


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## myšlenka

HappyDance9 said:


> So... if there were to be a subjunctive in Norwegian.. how would it be formed?
> 
> Would it be formed using "skulle".


It depends a lot on what meaning the subjunctive is meant to express. I can think of 3 different strategies which are used where French and/or German use _subjonctif/Konjunktiv_: 1) present indicative 2) past indicative 3) auxiliary verb: _måtte, skulle, skal, ville_...


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