# The club in the henhouse



## ThomasK

"To throw ..." is the literal translation of the Dutch expression *"de knuppel in het hoenderhok gooien*". An equivalent is: *"een steen in de kikkerpoel*", throw a stone in the frog pond literally. 

The English equivalents seem to be
 - *to put/ set the cat among the pigeons*
 - *to flutter the dovecote* 
 - to drop a bombshell 

Tell me about the equivalent of that metaphor/ expression in your language please !


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## Volcano

*In Turkish

Ortalığı velveleye vermek*


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## ThomasK

Great, but errr, what do you mean? My Google Translator: disturb the peace. Quite OK, but no metaphor somewhere (a lion amongst the antilopes, a crocodile amidst the ...) ? 

My French-speaking neighbour says: *'mettre les pieds dans le plat'* (putting one's feet on a plate or in the soup does cause disturbance indeed)...


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## Natalisha

ThomasK said:


> The English equivalents seem to be
> - *to put/ set the cat among the pigeons*
> - *to flutter the dovecote*
> - to drop a bombshell


I'm not sure I understand what you are asking about. Do you mean these idioms? 
*set the fox to mind the geese* 
*set the wolf to keep the sheep*

*Russian:* пустить козла в огород [pust*i*t' kazl*a* v agar*o*t] - to let a goat into the vegetable garden


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## ThomasK

I don't think we mean the same: in your expressions it will imply the cause will be damaged. 

In my case there will be a lot of noise, a shock, when one mentions the problem, but there is some chance that the chickens will get away safely. It means mentioning a difficulty, despite the fact that it might cause a lot of fuzz (but sometimes it was simply necessary to mention that). You see ? 

Just imagine: someone in a group raising a very difficult issue when everything seems quiet and peaceful...


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## ilocas2

In Czech there is *slon v porcelánu* _elephant in porcelain_ and *kozel zahradníkem* _goat-male is gardener_ but they haven't the same meaning like these english idioms. They mean that someone causes damage (unintetionally).


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## ThomasK

Quite right, I tried to explain it well in #5... But maybe you will come up with something !


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## enoo

*French*: 
_Jeter un pavé dans la mare._ - To throw a (paving) stone in the pond.
Sometimes also:
_Lâcher une bombe._ - To drop a bomb. (For pieces of informations that really make a lot of noise/waves)



ThomasK said:


> My French-speaking neighbour says: *'mettre les pieds dans le plat'* (putting one's feet on a plate or in the soup does cause disturbance indeed)...


Hehe, that one is slightly different. The stone in the pond really means "to make waves/noise, to disturb", while the feet in a plate means to unintentionally behave just in the wrong way. 
For example:  Mr. A. just got divorced, and Mr. B. (who knows a little Mr A. but does not know about his divorce) asks in a friendly way "So, how's your wife? Do you both still dream about having twins?".  Mr B. really put his feet in the plate, here, with his questions.


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot for the information, Enoo !


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## bibax

Czech:



> Just imagine: someone in a group raising a very difficult issue when everything seems quiet and peaceful...



I should say him/her: *Nedělej vlny!* (= Don't make waves!)

*dělat vlny* = to make waves;

---
*pustit kunu do kurníku* (= to let the marten in the henhouse) has a different meaning;


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## ThomasK

Thnaks, but it is not meant to be a warning ("Don't ..."), only a 'post-factual ascertainment' (aaarrrrrhhh) of the stir-up caused by what that person did: what s/he did like throwing a bomb (or at least create the sound of a bomb ;-) ). 

Could it be that not every language has an expression for this? I thought this was a fairly common, but maybe it is not. Yet, the main idea is: there is *peace and quiet, noone is expecting any trouble, and then  someone 'throws in' (key element !) very unpleasant news* about some kind of scandal in that very peaceful community. People will raise their voice, in shock, etc. You see ?


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## ilocas2

ThomasK said:


> Thnaks, but it is not meant to be a warning ("Don't ..."), only a 'post-factual ascertainment' (aaarrrrrhhh) of the stir-up caused by what that person did: what s/he did like throwing a bomb (or at least create the sound of a bomb ;-) ).
> 
> Could it be that not every language has an expression for this? I thought this was a fairly common, but maybe it is not. Yet, the main idea is: there is *peace and quiet, noone is expecting any trouble, and then someone 'throws in' (key element !) very unpleasant news* about some kind of scandal in that very peaceful community. People will raise their voice, in shock, etc. You see ?


 
I FINALLY GET IT !

*blesk z čistého nebe* - lightning from clean sky (it's very common saying)


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## Orlin

Bulgarian: (да) пусна/пускам вълка в кошарата - to let the wolf in the pen.


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## ThomasK

Thanks, Ilocas, but there is one difference: lightning just falls, clubs are thrown (the latter part is very important). So yours is interesting and we have the same one in Dutch, but it is difference.


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## sakvaka

I tried to look for a similar expression in *Finnish*, which wasn't very easy due to the oddity of this idiom. ;-) However, with some patient searching on Google, I came up with the phrase _kuohuttaa mieliä_ (lit. make minds 'foam', as in champagne or in the sea). I think this expression is very close to the one you described, but the radical difference just sidetracked me in the beginning.


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## ThomasK

Well, it is certainly interesting, but when does one use it please? I mean: I miss the throwing element, which seems so typical...


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## sakvaka

That's why it needs to be used in a different way.  

_Adressin allekirjoittajista monen mieltä on kuohuttanut se,  että lakiesityksen keskeisenä perusteena  mainitaan... 
_Of the signers of the petition, the minds of many people have been foamed by the fact that as one of the central principles of the law proposal, they mention...

I know that my translation is clumsy! You can imagine why it is so good to know some Finnish. 

You can also leave _mieltä_ out, eg. _Amerikkalaisjoukkojen kohtalo kuohuttaa Japanissa. _The destiny of the American troops is making [people] foam in Japan.


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## ThomasK

I begin to see. Could it mean that it gets people angry in fact, or does it mainly scare them?


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## sakvaka

It's about making them angry. This seems to be different from what you originally thought, or?


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## ThomasK

Well, yes and no. What is a human reaction, when a bomb-like object is thrown: fear, I think, and anger perhaps as a second reaction if one sees that the thrower did it on purpose, that the point made is not important at all. But fear, shock, first, I think.


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## ilocas2

Sorry for off topic here, but I've just realized, that Czech language has at least one proverb about henhouse.

Life is like a henhouse ladder - short and shitted.
Život je jak žebřík od kurníku - krátkej a posranej.


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## ThomasK

Well, at least that is funny. I just wonder if it does not help thinking of something that creates a lot of noise, havock, turmoil, among  a group of people, lit. or fig....


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## Natalisha

I think I've found one at last!

*Посеять семена раздора*, which means "to sow the seeds of strife".


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## ThomasK

Great, but the problem ;-) is that the seeds take a long time to grow, where that club hurts, makes noise, hurts, maybe, especially now ! ;-)


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## Natalisha

No, ThomasK, when we say that somebody sowed the seeds of strife we mean that he/she caused trouble, made mischief. Time is not implied at all!


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## ThomasK

Thank you, N; so I can conclude that the SoS cause some kind of panic then, rightaway?


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## Natalisha

I wouldn't call it panic, but people start to quarrel for no discernible reason. As I've already mentioned time is not implied, so only the context and the real situation can help you understand whether they started to quarrel right away or a little bit later.

We also have the expression "посеять панику" (cause panic, make havok), but as far as I understand you are looking for something different.


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## ThomasK

Yes, indeed, because I am looking for a (metaphorical) expression. For example : (deliberately) causing a stir all of a sudden.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
«Ταράζω τα λιμνάζοντα ύδατα»
ta'razo ta lim'nazonda 'iðata
lit. _"to ruffle the standing/stagnant waters"_
or more colloquially,
«Ταράζω τα νερά»
ta'razo ta ne'ra
lit. _"to ruffle the waters"_.
There's also the idiomatic expression (depending on the region):
«Ταράζω τη μακαριότητα»
ta'razo ti makari'otita
lit. _"to upset the blissfulness"_

In every aforementioned case, the verb used is the Byzantine one «ταράζω» (ta'razo) deriving from the classical one «ταράσσω» (tă'rāssō)-->_to stir, trouble, ruffle_


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## ilocas2

I finally found the Czech idiom (how I could be so blind)

*píchnout do vosího hnízda*

to sting/stab into the wasp nest

It's used very often


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## ThomasK

Thanks, Apmoy and Ilocas. Let me just point out: it is not simply disturbing peace, you know, it is deliberately raising a hot issue... But I think the Czech idiom is the right one; the Greek ones seem close but different... 

But thanks again !


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, Apmoy and Ilocas. Let me just point out: it is not simply disturbing peace, you know, it is deliberately raising a hot issue... But I think the Czech idiom is the right one; the Greek ones seem close but different...
> 
> But thanks again !


My second attempt:
«Σαν την αλεπού* στο κοτέτσι**»
san tin ale'pu sto ko'tetsi
lit. "like the fox in the henhouse"
(it's said for people who deliberately cause a stir all of a sudden. I think it's much closer to the original meaning)

*«αλεπού» (ale'pu _feminin noun_) is the fox; it derives from the Classical «ἀλώπηξ» (ă'lōpēks _feminine noun_) which in Hellenistic Greek became «ἀλωπὰ» (ălō'pă _feminine noun_), eventually «ἀλωποὺ» & «ἀλεποὺ» (ălō'pu and ălĕ'pu _both feminine_). Cognate with Latin _volpes_, Sansk. _lopāsá_. In Greek with «αλεπού» we describe the devious, cunning person (a meaning which appears already in the Classical language; the devious one was called «ἀλωπός _m._, -ός _f._, -όν _n._»)
**«κοτέτσι» (ko'tetsi _neuter noun_) is the henhouse, a Slavic loanword. From _kotec (< kotьcь)_, diminutive of _kotъ_ which is related to English cot/cote, Old French cote (> coterie), German Kotter = a small building or booth


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## catlady60

In English: _The fox is in the henhouse._


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## ThomasK

Thanks, CL, but it hink this is an observation (an ascertainment) of what is going on, whereas we use the expression to express that someone deliberately causes trouble. 

I wonder if you could imagine using it, when someone for example raises a hot issue when there is already a tense atmosphere, when he is really asking for trouble, or in this case breaks through the apparent quiet...


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