# ה phonemic status in Hebrew



## hadronic

I know the ה-sound got practically suppressed from Hebrew phonology. But is it still "phonemic" ? Let me explain.

ארים and הרים exactly sound alike in modern speech. But if one would like to disambiguate between them (in speech), would the pronounciation "hhharim" (with English _h_) hint the listeners directly toward the right word ?
Or has "h" 's phonemic power lost so much strength, that it just sounds as a "noise" (in the sense of signal theory), and doesn't bring that much information ? 

Another example : בריאות _bri'ut_ and זהות _zehut_. If I am to pronounce _bri'ut _as _brihut_, would it hurt the listener's hear ? Would it even be so distorted that no one would understand the word I'm trying to say (as if I had said sth very far, like _brinut) _? At any rate, on the opposite, _zehut_ and _ze'ut _will be both accepted and interchangeable...

Another last example : in French, "h" has no phonemic value at all. French pupils have a hard time distinguishing between English "his" and "is", "hi" and "eye" for instance, and are able to pronounce one for the other, and the other way round too. Is that the case for Israeli pupils ? Do the half phonemic status of "h" in Hebrew help them in having it fully phonemic in English ?


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## berndf

The ה might be very weak in modern Hebrew but not the א which is pronounced very articulately (except for mute א). If nothing else, the phonemic value of ה is the absence of א.

The same is true for the problem French speakers have in English: The pronunciation of _is _(at least after a pause) is [?Iz]. What French students often don't realize is that the main phonetic effect of the "h" in _his_ is the suppression of [?] which is not spelled in the Latin alphabet.


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## Maayan

hadronic said:


> ארים and הרים exactly sound alike in modern speech. But if one would like to disambiguate between them (in speech), would the pronounciation "hhharim" (with English _h_) hint the listeners directly toward the right word ?
> Or has "h" 's phonemic power lost so much strength, that it just sounds as a "noise" (in the sense of signal theory), and doesn't bring that much information ?


 
In this example the ה and the א sound different because of either nikkud or stress.
ארים - verb, future tense, single male = _I'll lift_, pronounced 'arim (the stress is on _רים)_
ארים - noun, plural male = _aryans, _pronounced 'arim(the stress is on _א)_
הרים - noun, plral male = _mountains_, pronounced harim (he stress on _רים_)

However, there are other examples in which the ה is lost and sounds more like א, love - אוהב, אהבה frequently pronounced: o'ev or even oev, a'ava or even aava.


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## Tamar

> I know the ה-sound got practically suppressed from Hebrew phonology. But is it still "phonemic" ?


Yes, it is still there. It is there in speech too, sometimes we do get to speak "correctly" (just today I pronounced the name זוהר as _zohar _and not _zo'ar_.
If you pronounce _brihut_ instead of _bri'ut_, that does hurt, the word could be recognized according to context, but it's way too wierd, the two pronunciation are interchangeable, there's such word as _brihut_....
(I remember on the last season of _kokhav nolad_, during the auditions, the judges made fun of people who added _h_'s in words where it doesn't exist). 



> Do the half phonemic status of "h" in Hebrew help them in having it fully phonemic in English ?


As for Isrealis who speak English: unlike the French, they do pronounce _h_, but they misplace it. They would insert an _h_ where it's not supposed to be or omit it where it is supposed to be.


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## berndf

Tamar said:


> Yes, it is still there. It is there in speech too, sometimes we do get to speak "correctly" (just today I pronounced the name זוהר as _zohar _and not _zo'ar_.
> If you pronounce _brihut_ instead of _bri'ut_, that does hurt, the word could be recognized according to context, but it's way too wierd, the two pronunciation are interchangeable, there's such word as _brihut_....
> (I remember on the last season of _kokhav nolad_, during the auditions, the judges made fun of people who added _h_'s in words where it doesn't exist).
> 
> 
> As for Isrealis who speak English: unlike the French, they do pronounce _h_, but they misplace it. They would insert an _h_ where it's not supposed to be or omit it where it is supposed to be.


Isn't this an issue with inter-vocalic "h" but not with word-initial "h" as in the original question? I don't remember having ever heard /hajom/ being pronounced /?ajom/ and as my own native language has both phonemic /h/ and /?/ I think I would have noticed.


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## hadronic

Tamar said:


> If you pronounce _brihut_ instead of _bri'ut_, that does hurt, the word could be recognized according to context, but it's way too wierd, the two pronunciation are interchangeable, there's such word as _brihut_....


 
The pronunciations _are_ or _are not_ interchangeable ?
_Brihut_ does exist, as a word ?



> (I remember on the last season of _kokhav nolad_, during the auditions, the judges made fun of people who added _h_'s in words where it doesn't exist).


 
Interesting, it's frequent in French songs too, except that it's just a matter of style that won't offend the intelligibility, as _h_ is not phonemic.




> As for Isrealis who speak English: unlike the French, they do pronounce _h_, but they misplace it. They would insert an _h_ where it's not supposed to be or omit it where it is supposed to be.


 
Same for French pupils. Once they manage to utter this particular sound, they keep on misplacing it... Glad to see that on that point, Israeli pupils are not more favored


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## hadronic

berndf said:


> Isn't this an issue with inter-vocalic "h" but not with word-initial "h" as in the original question? I don't remember having ever heard /hajom/ being pronounced /?ajom/ and as my own native language has both phonemic /h/ and /?/ I think I would have noticed.


 
Can any native confirm ?
From my experience, I've very frequently heard /איום/ for היום, and very rarely, /היום/.


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## origumi

In this specific case the ה may be pronounced stronger than the usual to distinguish between איום = terrible and היום = today.

In general - the rule is that there's no rule. Different populations are more or less conservative. For example, Yemenite Jews and their descendants tend to pronounce the ה more carefully.


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## berndf

origumi said:


> In general - the rule is that there's no rule. Different populations are more or less conservative. For example, Yemenite Jews and their descendants tend to pronounce the ה more carefully.


The realization of ה as I described it should then apply to Ashkenazi influenced Hebrew as the phonological base of Yiddish is Germanic and (modern) Germanic languages have initial /h/ but no intervocalic /h/ which is either completely mute or reduced to a brief non-glottal stop, i.e. Cohen could then be pronounced /koen/ or /ko-en/ but not /kohen/ or /ko?en/. 

If I am right then there should be a difference between inter-vocalic א and ה; both being realized as stops but one glottal and one non-glottal. The difference would be tiny and would require careful listening.


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## hadronic

berndf said:


> If I am right then there should be a difference between inter-vocalic א and ה; both being realized as stops but one glottal and one non-glottal. The difference would be tiny and would require careful listening.


 
I'm pretty sure that א also can be reduced to a non-glottal stop, as you described for the case of _kohen. _
For instance, לבריאות!  pronounced as _labriut, _or even _labriyut_, instead of the less colloquial _labri'ut _(or _labri?ut _following your convention), is not something unusual. Or also תראי _tar'i_ ("show!" fem. imperative), pronounced exactly the same as טרי _tari _("fresh").


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## berndf

hadronic said:


> I'm pretty sure that א also can be reduced to a non-glottal stop, as you described for the case of _kohen._


In this case invervocalic א and ה would indeed be indistinguishable. Any native speaker opinions?


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## Tamar

> The pronunciations _are_ or _are not_ interchangeable ?
> _Brihut_ does exist, as a word ?


I'm afraid I didn't notice I left the word _not_ out by mistake, sorry 
_Brihut_ doesn't exist.


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## Maayan

berndf said:


> In this case invervocalic א and ה would indeed be indistinguishable. Any native speaker opinions?


 
In many cases you can't distinguish between א and ה or even ע.
For example:
מה *א*תה *ע*שית *ה*יום בגן
ma 'ata 'ashita 'ayom bagan? - the א,ע,ה sound exactly the same.
You can hear it almost everysday (spoken by _other_ moms, of course...) when picking up kids from school/kindergarden.


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## hadronic

Maayan said:


> In many cases you can't distinguish between א and ה or even ע.
> For example:
> מה *א*תה *ע*שית *ה*יום בגן
> ma 'ata 'ashita 'ayom bagan? - the א,ע,ה sound exactly the same.
> You can hear it almost everysday (spoken by _other_ moms, of course...) when picking up kids from school/kindergarden.


 
'a*si*ta, I guess.


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## Maayan

Right. Thanks for correcting, Hadronic


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