# three parts iced over = means what?



## sb70012

Arnold’s writings provide a nice verification of Eliot’s seeming paradox. As a poet he usually records his own experiences, his own feeling of loneliness and isolation as a lover, his longing for a serenity that he cannot find, his melancholy sense of the passing of youth (more than for many men, Arnold’s thirtieth birthday was an awesome landmark after which he felt, he said, “*three parts iced over*”).

_Source: The Norton Anthology of English Literature, Matthew Arnold (1822-1888)_ 

Hello teachers,

I know the meanings word by word but totally I can’t understand what the bold written part means.
I also searched (*three parts iced over*) in the forum but nothing appeared.

You know what it means?

Many thanks in advance.


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## Hau Ruck

That makes two of us. I have no idea what it means either.


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## bennymix

I think "iced over" means that the surface of him, so to say, the most accessible part, is frozen, cold and unfeeling.  (Beneath would be a different story).   As he got older, he found his feelings, in some ways colder and weaker;  think of a pond freezing over;  first the surface hardens, then the whole thing freezes. Since Arnold was a writer who (in a calm way) drew upon feeling, this indicates his vitality as a writer is affected.

I'm unsure about '3 parts' but since he was turning 30,  I'd guess that he's saying this icing over has now progressed (in a non favorable way) for 3 decades.   On this analysis, if he thought he'd make it to 70, he's
saying he's 3/7 iced over.


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## sb70012

I know what ice over means but the word (_*three parts*_) makes me confused.

I took a picture of the page of the book. If you click here you will see it.


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## Hau Ruck

sb70012 said:


> I know what ice over means but the word (_*three parts*_) makes me confused.
> 
> I took a picture of the page of the book. If you click here you will see it.



I'm pretty sure the '3 parts' is what Benny took a guess at. 3 parts of 10 = 30.   He turned 30, so you have 3 decades (3 parts).


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## Loob

"Three parts" often means "three quarters" - see, for example, this earlier thread: three parts dead.


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## sb70012

So "_*three parts iced over*_" means his three deacdes (30 years) passed coldly. 

Right?


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## bennymix

I can't say much more than I did, as to 'parts'.  M-W unabridged say, for 'part'
_
b *:* an equal constituent portion *:* one of several or many like units into which something is divided or of which it is composed *:* a proportional division or ingredient _

We don't know how long Arnold expected to live, but if it was 60, 70, or 80, then '3 parts' is 3/6, 3/7, or 3/8 respectively, of his life.

Helen Vendler said, of Arnold's feelings of diminishment of feeling, in a perceptive essay
_
We consider it disappointing, perhaps, when a young poet finds his eventual life-work in criticism (rather than in fiction or in drama). The gap between imaginative writing and critical writing is a real one, and Arnold mourned the departure of the wistful passion that had awakened his verse. _

http://www.mrbauld.com/arnoldven.html


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## Loob

sb70012 said:


> So "_*three parts iced over*_" means his three deacdes (30 years) passed coldly.
> 
> Right?


No, to me it means he felt three-quarters frozen - like a 75%-frozen pond.


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## sb70012

Loob said:


> No, to me it means he felt three-quarters frozen - like a 75%-frozen pond.



Does (feel frozen) mean (to feel sad without any feeling, depressed)?


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## Myridon

Loob said:


> No, to me it means he felt three-quarters frozen - like a 75%-frozen pond.


Why do you think it's definitely 3 parts out of 4 rather than 3 out of 7 or 3 out of 10?


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## Loob

sb70012 said:


> Does (feel frozen) mean (to feel sad without any feeling, depressed)?


Benny explained "iced over" well in post 3 - think of a pond whose surface is three-quarters covered in ice.





Myridon said:


> Why do you think it's definitely 3 parts out of 4  rather than 3 out of 7 or 3 out of 10?


Oh, because I'm familiar  with the expression "three parts" = ¾.  Perhaps it's more common in BrE  than it is in AmE?


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## Parla

A little more context: Matthew Arnold was primarily a poet, so not everything he said should be taken literally, although the quote is from a letter; the full line, as shown on this quote page, is "I am past thirty, and three parts iced over." It was written in February 1853; he had turned 30 two months before, on Christmas Eve. It should be noted that life expectancy at the time of his birth was only about 40 years; whether or not he was aware of that fact, we don't know. (He actually lived to 65.)

My guess is that either he thought his life was already three-quarters over or that for some reason he felt emotionally numbed.


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## bennymix

Hi Loob, 
Interesting idea.  Probably Russell in that quotation, meant 3 parts of 4, or 3/4.   I wonder if you have any reference for this? (I looked at the other thread but see no reference there, either.)  But in any case, I'm not sure if Arnold meant quite such a large fraction of being progressively frozen up in his feelings and inspiration.  In other words, does one find other writers saying 'three parts' and having a smaller proportion than 3/4 in mind?


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## Loob

bennymix said:


> I wonder if you have any reference for this?


Here's the OED definition for _*three parts*:

_Three out of four equal parts, three quarters. Hence as adv.phr., To the extent of three quarters; well-nigh, almost.

1711    Swift _Jrnl. to Stella_ 30 June          (1948)      I. 300,                   I have excuses, though I am three parts asleep.
[...]
1878    R. Browning _La Saisiaz_ 72                   There's the stoppage at the inn Three-parts up the mountain.​1887    R. L. Stevenson _Memories & Portraits_ xv. 250                   Conduct is three parts of life, they say; but I think they put it high.
​


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## sb70012

Loob said:


> No, to me it means he felt three-quarters frozen - like a 75%-frozen pond.



But _*quarter *_is one of four equal parts into which something can be divided.

Then, it must be 45% not 75%. Isn't it?


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## lucas-sp

I agree with Loob. Here's the appropriate entry from the OED:





> *2.**Thesaurus »
> Categories »
> *​*a.* With a numeral: each of a number of equal portions into which a thing may be divided; an exact divisor, a submultiple; _spec. [...]
> _
> _(b) _(with a preceding cardinal numeral) denoting the proportionate division of a whole, (also) denoting a number of divisions that are one short of the whole (as _two parts_ = two-thirds,_three parts_ = three-quarters, etc.; formerly also in _sing._ with a numeral higher than one, as _two part_, etc.). Now _literary_.


Anyway, 30% deadened isn't deadened enough to complain about dramatically.


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## lucas-sp

sb70012 said:


> But _*quarter *_is one of four equal parts into which something can be divided.
> 
> Then, it must be 45% not 75%. Isn't it?


sb, there are 100 percents in a whole. So a _quarter_​ is 25 percents. 25 + 25 + 25 + 25 = 100.


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## bennymix

Note to Parla, do you think Arnold expected only to reach 40?  Is there evidence?**   The 'life expectancy' of 40 that you cite, for that place and period, includes, of course, many infants' and childrens' deaths.    What this does _not_ mean is that a young adult in her 20s (or even late teens) could reasonably assume her life was half over.  Once one hit 20, I think many if not a majority of these people could expect to live past 40--that's my opinion, at least.

The other factor here is that poetically disposed persons sometimes exaggerate or dramatize.  Thus, *even if* Arnold literally meant, "I'm mostly [3/4] dead, emotionally," he may not have actually believed, in his calmer moments that his life, or his emotional life was in fact, 3/4 over at 30.

I hope you can shed some light on these matters.
==

**ADDED:  I see OED citations, now, posts #15 and #17,  that may settle the issue.


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## Myridon

Loob said:


> Benny explained "iced over" well in post 3 - think of a pond whose surface is three-quarters covered in ice.Oh, because I'm familiar  with the expression "three parts" = ¾.  Perhaps it's more common in BrE  than it is in AmE?


I made rice last night.  I used 3 parts rice to 5 parts water for a total of 8 parts.


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## bennymix

I agree, Myrmidon.  I'm an American living in Canada, and the proposed meaning, 3/4, evokes only the vaguest of memories of every having seen or heard this in US or Canada.


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## Hau Ruck

I think Parla supplied us with the most pertinent information to support Loob's theory (in regard to '3 parts', of course). 

Thumbs up Loob; thumbs up Parla. 

(It seems to me that the _inferred_ total sum of the parts equals 4(0). If life expectancy was 40, then 3/4 of it was now 'iced over'.  Seems very plausible to me, at least. )


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## sb70012

Guys, I want to ask you a question but please don't laugh at me. I really got many commnets and answers and I got mixed up too. Sure it's my problem not yours. You explained it very well. But I just need one thing;
Only in one short sentence would you please rewrite it in modern English? I mean:

*three parts iced over* = (would you please rewrite it in modern English)?


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## Hau Ruck

sb70012 said:


> Guys, I want to ask you a question but please don't laugh at me. I really got many comments and answers and I got mixed up too. Sure it's my problem not yours. You explained it very well. But I just need one thing;
> Only in one short sentence would you please rewrite it in modern English? I mean:
> 
> *three parts iced over* = (would you please rewrite it in modern English)?



The problem is this; we have two sides to the argument. One side believes it most likely means one thing, while the other side is skeptical of it being such.
So, I will give you _only_ Loob's/Parla's/Lucas'/my opinion (Loob, Parla and Lucas - forgive me if I am speaking incorrectly for any of you. That is not my intent.):

'3 parts iced over':
3 parts = 3/4 (because we are assuming his life expectancy is only 40 years - thus 30/40 = 3/4 of his life) of his life is over (iced over). 

Mind you, this is not common vernacular, sb700012. As you can see, none of us are _completely_ sure as to its meaning/intent. 

_(Also, do not forget that there is another theory to the meaning of this line - different from what I just explained. They may have a way of explaining their side.  )_


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## PaulQ

In fairness, Arnold had a morbid fear of growing old: see his poem "Growing Old" which was written when he was 46.


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## sb70012

Ok now I got it. Thanks everybody.


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## RM1(SS)

Loob said:


> Here's the OED definition for _*three parts*:
> 
> _Three out of four equal parts, three quarters. Hence as adv.phr., To the extent of three quarters; well-nigh, almost.
> 
> 1711    Swift _Jrnl. to Stella_ 30 June          (1948)      I. 300,                   I have excuses, though I am three parts asleep.
> [...]
> 1878    R. Browning _La Saisiaz_ 72                   There's the stoppage at the inn Three-parts up the mountain.​1887    R. L. Stevenson _Memories & Portraits_ xv. 250                   Conduct is three parts of life, they say; but I think they put it high.
> ​



_Three-fourths_ was my first reaction, too, before I paused to think "Three out of how many parts?"  I don't think he meant it literally - that he only expected to live only forty years.  Note the "well nigh, almost" part of the definition above.


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## lucas-sp

I really don't think that he's doing the mathematical calculation of his lifespan. That's a cute idea, but it doesn't seem to capture what the sentence is saying. Also, calculation of the _average_ lifespan overemphasizes infant mortality and child death. If you were alive at age 15 in the 19th century, you could probably expect to live to 65.





sb70012 said:


> Only in one short sentence would you please rewrite it in modern English? I mean:
> 
> (he felt) *three parts iced over* = (would you please rewrite it in modern English)?


I would say that this simply means "he felt 75% frozen," "he felt like 75% of himself was numb," "he felt like he had lost 75% of his emotional and aesthetic sensitivity." In other words, he feels _deadened_​, not near-dead.


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## Loob

lucas-sp said:


> I would say that this simply means "he felt 75% frozen," "he felt like 75% of himself was numb," "he felt like he had lost 75% of his emotional and aesthetic sensitivity." In other words, he feels _deadened_​, not near-dead.


That's how I see it too.


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## bennymix

[Arnold was saying,] "I'm emotionally 3/4 dead, at least on the surface."


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## Hau Ruck

lucas-sp said:


> I would say that this simply means "he felt 75% frozen," "he felt like 75% of himself was numb," "he felt like he had lost 75% of his emotional and aesthetic sensitivity." In other words, he feels _deadened_​, not near-dead.



Interesting. But this takes us back to the dilemma of '3 parts (of....)' that Myridon pointed out.

If we are not assuming 3(0) of 4(0) parts [3/4] (with 40 being the sum of all 'parts'), how can we come to a conclusion that 3 parts _are_ 75% (3/4)?

Parla's theory is the only one I can honestly say would pinpoint 3 parts of 4. Anything else would seem like speculation. 

As Myridon said, he can have 3 parts water.  How many parts total were in his mix of rice and water? No one knows without the full recipe.


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## bennymix

Hau, I believe I made this argument [uncertainly as to total number of parts] in posts #3 and #8.    I have since been 'converted' to Loob's and others' view that the normal assumption in Britain, at least, is *three parts out of four* and that that applies to the Arnold example.


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## Hau Ruck

bennymix said:


> Hau, I believe I made this argument [uncertainly as to total number of parts] in posts #3 and #8.    I have since been 'converted' to Loob's and others' view that the normal assumption in Britain, at least, is *three parts out of four* and that that applies to the Arnold example.



Is 3 parts usually said insinuating a total of 4 parts (in BrE, of course)? In a way that is applicable to almost all regards of daily life?


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## bennymix

Yes, usually implying ('insinuating') 4 parts [in BrE], as per the OED excerpt posted by Loob, item #15.


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## lucas-sp

Hau Ruck said:


> Is 3 parts usually said insinuating a total of 4 parts (in BrE, of course)? In a way that is applicable to almost all regards of daily life?


I think this information is given in the dictionary entries posted here.

The OED says that the general use of "X parts" to mean "X/X+1 parts" is now literary, but it gives many examples (that I didn't provide in post #17) that show that it was current when Arnold was writing. Here are some examples:





> 1815   M. Edgeworth _Patronage_ (rev. ed.) IV. xli. 299   Possession..being nine parts of the law.
> 1878   R. B. Smith _Carthage_ 319   He was himself only three parts Roman.
> 1903   S. Butler _Way of All Flesh_ lii. 243   If you begin with the Bible,..you are three parts gone on the road to infidelity.
> 1962   P. Goodman _Lordly Hudson_ 207   She moves in an idle way putting a foot here and there, her counsel is nine parts dismay.


We know that "nine parts" is "nine tenths" in the first example, for instance. But the OED also lists a definition for "three parts" meaning "75%" (and, euphemistically, "almost entirely").

I didn't personally recognize this idiom, but Loob did right away. And other posters do on the thread she linked to in post #6. So there's empirical evidence that it is recognized, if not necessarily widely used, in contemporary BE.


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## bennymix

It might be noted that X/X+1 has not been established as used and clear for all values of X+1.  Four and ten are common numbers associated with completeness.   So the reader makes an obvious inference from three or nine.

I tend to doubt if there is any case of someone saying  "I'm six parts frozen,' meaning 6/7.


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## lucas-sp

The OED gives examples of values of X in "X parts" (= "X/X+1") that include 2, 3, and 9.

The reason that we don't have examples of X that include 6, 27, and 18 has more to do with the fact that most people (especially poets) don't measure things in sevenths, twenty-eighths, or nineteenths, than any limitation inherent to the phrase.


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## bennymix

//most people (especially poets) don't measure things in sevenths,//

Give me a few days this week, to think on that.


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## lucas-sp

bennymix said:


> //most people (especially poets) don't measure things in sevenths,//
> 
> Give me a few days this week, to think on that.


Right, because you've often described yourself as being "five-sevenths" done with something. Or "four-thirteenths." Or "one hundred and forty five one hundred and seventy sixths." Or even "five-twelfths." (In other words, just because two very popular things - the week and the half-day - are measured in seven and twelve does not mean that ordinarily people measure other things in seven and twelve.)

I suppose what I _meant_ to say was that most people do not *reckon* things in sevenths. In our culture we most readily reckon things in fractions of 2, 4, 3, 10, and 8. (Even 8 is a bit of a stretch, though.)


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## Enquiring Mind

For what it's worth, I understand it as Loob (#15) and lucas-sp (#17) explained - three-quarters, but not necessarily as a 75% fraction of his expected lifespan.  He was a poet, not a mathematician. 

In BE, "three parts", when used like this, is immediately understandable as "three-quarters". My father used it as a feature of his speech.   But of course you wouldn't say "two parts" to mean "half" or "four parts" to mean "completely". 

And note, too, in the last verse of the poem from PaulQ's link, Arnold sees death as "frozen up within".


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## bennymix

lucas //I suppose what I _meant_ to say was that most people do not *reckon* things in sevenths. In our culture we most readily reckon things in fractions of 2, 4, 3, 10, and 8.//

I think we agree, here.   And as you perhaps hinted, one might ask if anyone (Brit) would ever say,  "I'm 7 parts frozen up [or whatever]," meaning 7/8.


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## wandle

There are three distinct questions involved in the original post.


sb70012 said:


> more than for many men, Arnold’s thirtieth birthday was an awesome landmark after which he felt, he said, “*three parts iced over*”).


(1) What does 'three parts' mean? Answer (as mentioned by others and shown clearly by the OED): 'three-quarters'.

(2) What does 'iced over' mean? As already noted, this metaphor expresses the image of a body of water becoming covered with ice.

(3) What does 'three-quarters iced over' mean? 

'Three-quarters dead'? Most unlikely, in my view. Arnold would not have been expecting to die by age 40.

'Three-quarters deadened' in his imagination or poetic sensibility?
Possible, but not very likely in my view (unless it is confirmed by the context of the letter).

Another possibility is 'three-quarters solidified' in his social personality: formed into a settled shape by his experience of life. 

Another possibility is that he is expressing a view of poetry as a mean between feeling (or thought) and action. When you write a poem you commit yourself to a creation: it is a form of action which creates you (the poet) by crystallising your vision in a specific form.
He may mean that he is already as a poet three-quarters crystallised into his definitive self.

Another excerpt from a letter of Arnold's to Clough (Nov 1853) may be relevant, though the image is somewhat different: 
'You are too content to fluctuate - to be ever learning, never coming to the knowledge of the truth. This is why, with you, I feel it necessary to stiffen myself - and hold fast my rudder.'
The Crisis of Action in Nineteenth-Century English Literature
 By Stefanie Markovits


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## lucas-sp

It does seem, to me, that he's mourning the passing of his earlier, more emotionally responsive and expressive, poetic sentiment:





> "I am past thirty and three parts iced over, and my pen, it seems to me, is even stiffer and more cramped than my feeling."


The rest of the sentence makes it clear that his "feeling" is what has been "cramped," reduced, or turned to ice.

As a late Romantic poet, he would have considered that his own affective experience was the source of his poetry. His sense of having become mature and more inured to sensation or passion (as was commonly thought to be the pattern of the passage from youth to experience) would seem, to me, to be a very plausible referent for this statement.

Also, he also seems to have thought of his career as progressing from a youthful poetic talent to more sober, critical works in his later years. Whether this is accurate or not is perhaps besides the point.


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## wandle

Well, that view is confirmed by the context, then.


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## dadane

bennymix said:


> And as you perhaps hinted, one might ask if anyone (Brit) would ever say, "I'm 7 parts frozen up [or whatever]," meaning 7/8.



In my experience, 3/4, 9/10, 99/100 are common, 2/3 is rare. I've never heard it used for other general fractions. 
However, if the denominator is clear from the context then the goalposts move, I would have no problem with "the week was six parts done" or "the day was 23 parts up".


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## bennymix

Nice point, dadane. 

Question: It's the first week of August, and I'm back at work. It's late Tuesday.   I say, 
"It's my first week and I'm two parts done."  Yes?


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## HDMoghaddam

As far as I know, water starts freezing at one point, and then this will move across the whole surface. When it is done with the surface, it will then spread deep down.
Now, picture this: A creature incapable of moving if trapped in some water.
And the water is freezing from one side, progressing towards his body.
When the ice covers him totally, it will be the end.
Now, he is with great sorrow announcing that 3 fractions of his body is already taken.

Enough is said by Matthew.


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