# Paralinguistics/body language



## Arrius

Language is not always expressed in words: either to emphasise or add nuances to our verbal utterances or as a substitute for them, all of us at times use facial expressions or physical gestures. These are not always obvious to those unfamiliar with such signals, and are sometimes quite arbitrary. The nodding of the head is generally taken to indicate agreement or acquiescence, presumably since a bowed head in warfare or the imposition of authority clearly and instinctively symbolizes surrender or submission, but I have been told, (though I have never seen it myself) that the Chinese move their heads from side to side or "shake their heads", as the standard rather vague description has it, to show assent, to say yes, a gesture which has a negative meaning in the West. Sinologists, please correct me if I am wrong. Possibly the Italians and the Egyptians gesticulate the most; who uses such signals the least I would hesitate to guess. 
Further examples are:

1) In the Arabian Peninsula, /Sabuur/ ("Patience!") is indicated by bending the arm slightly, the hand with palm uppermost, whilst bending the fingers inwards and jerking the forearm three times or so gently inwards, towards the body. This is not considered impolite and is often quite necessary in an area where queue jumping is traditionally rife from the days when it was incumbent on a sheikh to make himself promptly available to the pleas of all supplicants. 

2) In Germany, especially whilst driving a motor car, tapping the temple(side of the head) with the middle and index fingers means that you think that the other driver is an idiot. This so infuriates the other driver that it has provoked "road rage" and cause accidents, so that the gesture is now a punishable offence. ADAC, the German automobile association has tried to compensate by introducing a sign for "Entschuldigung" (Sorry) which consists in raising vertically the three middle fingers with the back of the hand towards the other driver. I don't know if it ever caught on. Conveniently, this capital E made by the raised fingers also stands for "excuse me", "excusez-moi" and "ekskuus". However, the same first sign if used during an amicable conversation off the road implies "Köpfchen, Köpfchen" - it is/was necessary to use your/my head, think carefully.

What other bodily or facial signals do you know of. It is quite difficult even for a native speaker to describe such gestures, so please feel free to use your own language if you prefer. I or some kind person will translate where necessary, if able to. Obscenities, which I leave to others, are permitted by the rules, I believe, provided they are examined as lexical items, but let us not try to "épater les bourgeois" too much.


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## palomnik

Arrius:  I'm not sure what you're asking.  Do you want us all to respond with other cases of body language?  Or to discuss/dispute the ones you've cited?


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## Loob

You might want to look at this thread


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## Arrius

palomnik said:


> Arrius: I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you want us all to respond with other cases of body language? Or to discuss/dispute the ones you've cited?


 
In my last paragraph I say:" What other facial and bodily signals do you know of?" So I am asking for other examples. However, if you think you disagree with something I have said, it is, in any case, the normal routine to say so.
Paralinguistics is a valuable but quite neglected aspect of language learning. Despite its importance, I don't think I've come across it more than once or twice in hundreds of language course books in various languages. I think we could all learn some useful and interesting stuff here. Pity we can't draw diagrams though - at least, I can't.


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## Arrius

Loob said:


> You might want to look at this thread


 
Thank you,Loob - very interesting! Maja, also a senior member, informs us in the above thread that the Bulgarians reverse the western meanings of nodding and shaking the head. So you don't have to go very far eastwards towards China to come across this mirror-image convention.


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## Kajjo

Arrius said:


> 2) In Germany, especially whilst driving a motor car, tapping the temple(side of the head) with the middle and index fingers means that you think that the other driver is an idiot. This so infuriates the other driver that it has provoked "road rage" and cause accidents, so that the gesture is now a punishable offence. ADAC, the German automobile association has tried to compensate by introducing a sign for "Entschuldigung" (Sorry) which consists in raising vertically the three middle fingers with the back of the hand towards the other driver. I don't know if it ever caught on.


Right, Germans use the described signal to say idiot. No, rage and accidents due to idiot signs are extremely rare. No, I never heard about the excuse sign, despite being member of the ADAC. It obviously did not catch on.

Kajjo


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## .   1

Arrius said:


> 2) In Germany, especially whilst driving a motor car, tapping the temple(side of the head) with the middle and index fingers means that you think that the other driver is an idiot. This so infuriates the other driver that it has provoked "road rage" and cause accidents, so that the gesture is now a punishable offence.


Are you sure about this?
What is the gesture called?
What is the punishment for committing such an offence?

This gesture sounds very similar to the classic 'thinker position'.

I am appalled to think that a liberal country like Germany would cause a person to be punished for the interpretation of less than clear hand gesture made by a person who could not physically touch the 'victim' and all the idiot in question has to do is to complain to the police and a bloke who may have not even seen the idiot has a cop in his face.
That just sounds weird.
Is it an offence in Germany to call a person an idiot using words rather than hand gestures? I do mean calling them an idiot without any additional offensive words.

.,,


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## palomnik

Thanks for the clarification, Arrius.

It is true that shaking one's head to mean "yes" is fairly widespread in various areas of the globe, including various cultures in sub-Saharan Africa and parts of China.  

It is also almost a universal practice in many Muslim countries, including Turkey, to express "no" by a stare and a tilting back of the head, which can be misinterpreted as nodding.

The one that I have always had a hard time figuring is the Indian head "waggle" that looks like a cross between nodding and shaking.  Does it mean Yes? No? or maybe it just indicates an emphasis of what you're saying? Can any of our participants from India clarify?


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## Sepia

I Moroccan girl once told me that Moroccans move their eyebrows up and down much more while talking, than most Europeans do. Occasionally I have detected that somebody had North African parents, based on this, although the person spoke the national language with no foreign accent. 

It is well known that Italians have a whole system of hand-gestures that have more or less fixed meanings. I wonder if something similar has developed among big city black Americans - at least it seems to me that the movements gangsta rappers are doing in the video clips are more than just choreography.


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## Panpan

. said:


> Are you sure about this?
> What is the gesture called?
> What is the punishment for committing such an offence?
> .,,


The gesture is called the 'temple screw' in English.
In Germany it is punishable under the 'insult' laws. To avoid being caught using the gesture, some Germans now use a 'tooth screw' gesture to convey the same meaning. It is the same action, just against the cheek or jaw, instead of against the temple. You can get away with this, because you can always claim you had toothache.

Panpan


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## .   1

Panpan said:


> The gesture is called the 'temple screw' in English.
> In Germany it is punishable under the 'insult' laws. To avoid being caught using the gesture, some Germans now use a 'tooth screw' gesture to convey the same meaning. It is the same action, just against the cheek or jaw, instead of against the temple. You can get away with this, because you can always claim you had toothache.


What penalty is involved and what proofs are required?

.,,


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## jlc246

I learned something from the "French gestures" site (referenced earlier) that might save me some grief in the future. In the US, I would use the French "zero" gesture (thumb and forefinger in a circle, meaning "nothing" or "worthless") as a positive "ok" gesture meaning "I agree," "you got that right," "good" or even "great". Now I will be more careful with that gesture, especially if I am traveling or talking with people from other countries!

I think I am not very aware of the body language I use except when I have a reason to think that it didn't communicate what I expected it to say. For example, I recently learned in Italy that I often use a gesture meaning "let's go that way," or "come join us here" (moving my head to one side, like a sideways nod). It worked well for "let's go" but failed at "come join us at the table," because it didn't indicate the direction of the table very clearly. Instead, it implied "go that way" or "don't join us -- go away," which was the opposite of what I meant.  Now that I think about it, it doesn't make much sense for "join us here," so I plan to stop using it that way.



[EDIT -- see later post for correct gesture, which uses the index finger instead of the little finger, and a better interpretation.  Oops!  Thanks for the correction!]
I also learned an Italian gesture. If I understood it correctly (perhaps someone from Italy can correct me), it is used as a generalized "no/not" or negative and it is made by extending the thumb and little finger while folding the three middle fingers to the palm, then moving the hand back and forth (that is, rotating around the axis of the wrist while holding the wrist straight.) I learned it from the language hints section of a tourist guide to Italy. Later, I saw a flight attendent use it next to her ear. From the context, it appeared that she was saying she hadn't heard something. A few minutes later, she said to an English speaking passenger, "I am completely deaf."  [EDIT -- see later posts about this as a joke.]

I just discovered WordReference (after the trip). Thank you for the education! Lorna


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## Arrius

To Kajjo:
The, admitted, rarity of road accidents in Germany provoked by the "Idiot!" gesture may well be due in part to its being a punishable offence, but, in any case, Germany is probably the most law-abiding country in Europe (except perhaps for Switzerland). 

To . . ,
I do not think it is any more illegal in Germany to call someone an idiot
than it is anywhere else, though whether such verbal abuse in the absence of the gesture is a punishable offence whilst at the wheel of a motor car, I am unsure. Germany has been self-consciously liberal since the traumata she suffered sixty odd years ago, and the law mentioned is a necessary and reasonable one. These days you can be put on trial in my country, England, the home of liberalism, for such trivialities as putting a paid bill with your name on it into the wrong rubbish bin (trash can)... but I digress.

To palomik:
Perhaps the subcontinental head wobble is an intentionally non-commital (or fortuitously useful) gesture - a very convenient gambit when doing business.

To jlc246:
Two other Italian gestures I have come across are, firstly to describe several circles with extended index finger above the right ear and then point to the exit: "I am going to telephone". The other consists of pulling down the lower eye-lid to reveal the bloodshot condition of the eye: "I didn't get much sleep last night" -usually for lascivious reasons (notte bianca?)

To all friends:
Thank you all for your interesting contributions and comments. The scope of this thread is vast and could usefully go on indefinitely. Please note that it is permitted to express yourself in languages other than English if preferred. As I said above, it is difficult even for a native speaker to describe a physical gesture, though all contributors so far have managed it very well.


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## winklepicker

My favourite Italian gesture is to sweep the palm of the right hand over the outstretched palm of the left and then chop down with the right hand so as to brush the left fingertips. I think it means 'that's the end of it' - can an Italian confirm please?

Also, what is the one where you bring up your right hand palm facing you, fingers curled and touching the thumb and then wave to and fro from the wrist? It could be this - but I find these drawings a bit inscrutable.

(Wow, it's difficult to describe these gestures!) These are fun, but don't include the ones above.

EDIT: I can't resist pointing you to Russell Peters - brilliant!


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## palomnik

A couple of interesting ones from Russia:

Tapping the side of your chin with your index finger is a way to say "that person is drunk."

Making a fist with your hand, except leaving your little finger extended and touching it halfway down with your thumb means "a little bit."


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## Arrius

I am slightly puzzled by one of the signs made in the film "The Godfather" (in Godfather II, I believe, by Andy Garcia), a sign whose meaning is probably quite clear to those who have any contact with Italian Americans. It consists in putting the end of the thumb between the lips against the teeth then bringing it out sharply with a curved, downward jerk. I suspect that it is based on the last part of the sign of the cross.
In Shakespeare, I forget which play, one of the male characters angrily threatens another for making such a "thumbing" sign at him, but unless it has recently been re-imported, it is no longer part of British body language.


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## birus

HI! I'm Italian and just joined the forum. Sorry for my basic English...
I like this thread, personally I use a huge amount of gestures while speaking, I can't help it even if I often felt that this is not so well accepted by foreign people.


> My favourite Italian gesture is to sweep the palm of the right hand over the outstretched palm of the left and then chop down with the right hand so as to brush the left fingertips. I think it means 'that's the end of it' - can an Italian confirm please?


I tried to guess what you mean but honestly it does not remind me of any known italian gesture. Maybe another italian will be smarter than me in guessing.


> I also learned an Italian gesture. If I understood it correctly (perhaps someone from Italy can correct me), it is used as a generalized "no/not" or negative and it is made by extending the thumb and little finger while folding the three middle fingers to the palm, then moving the hand back and forth (that is, rotating around the axis of the wrist while holding the wrist straight.) I learned it from the language hints section of a tourist guide to Italy. Later, I saw a flight attendent use it next to her ear (like a "telephone" gesture but rotating). From the context, it appeared that she was saying she hadn't heard something. A few minutes later, she said to an English speaking passenger, "I am completely deaf."


In my opinion, what you are describing here is not an italian well known gesture, but rather some typical gesture used by deaf people only.
Besides, there is a very similar movement of the hand, that is done just as you describe it, but using the index instead of the little finger (making like an "L" with the thumb, and all the other fingers folded), and rotating the hand round the wrist axis, that means more or less "there is any" (of what you're talking about).
For example, you just told me to go over there and pick some object in some box, let's say. If I go over there and find nothing in the box, I may use this gesture (especially if you are too far to hear me) to let you understand I did not find the expected thing.
Or, more simply, I could use this gesture to emphasize my words while saying "I don't have money", "I ran out of ....".

Most of times we use gestures just to emphasize our speech, it is not strictly necessary but we like to do so.
Do you feel that disturbing to have a conversation with someone that gestures a lot?


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## xrayspex

_I saw a flight attendent use it next to her ear ... she said to an English speaking passenger, "I am completely deaf." 
_ 

I suspect she was exaggerating or being facetious.   Hearing impaired people aren't even allowed to sit in the exit row of aircraft, much less act as flight attendants.  It would be FAR too dangerous in an emergency.


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## jlc246

When she said "I am completely deaf," I thought she was making a joke as a humorous way to explain why she misheard the passenger's request. (She thought he was asking for apple juice, but it was really something else.) It could have been noisy, or perhaps she misunderstood because Italian was clearly her native language and she didn't catch the words in English. She spoke English very clearly, which I was grateful for because I only know 6 words in Italian! In any case, the hand gesture she used a few minutes earlier was probably intended to say that she didn't hear the other Italian passenger's request and would he/she please repeat it.

Later, I thought maybe she was actually deaf, because she seemed to be reading my lips, but perhaps that is my imagination. You might be right that it would be too dangerous. I hadn't thought of that. I don't know anything about the rules/requirements for the job. Because there are other flight attendants also on board, a hearing impaired attendant could work as part of a team in an emergency, but I can see that it might be a safety requirement to be able to hear.

thanks for your thoughts - Lorna


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## jlc246

birus said:


> In my opinion, what you are describing here is not an italian well known gesture, but rather some typical gesture used by deaf people only.
> Besides, there is a very similar movement of the hand, that is done just as you describe it, but using the index instead of the little finger (making like an "L" with the thumb, and all the other fingers folded), and rotating the hand round the wrist axis, that means more or less "there is any" (of what you're talking about).
> For example, you just told me to go over there and pick some object in some box, let's say. If I go over there and find nothing in the box, I may use this gesture (especially if you are too far to hear me) to let you understand I did not find the expected thing.
> Or, more simply, I could use this gesture to emphasize my words while saying "I don't have money", "I ran out of ....".
> 
> Most of times we use gestures just to emphasize our speech, it is not strictly necessary but we like to do so.
> Do you feel that disturbing to have a conversation with someone that gestures a lot?


 
Hi and thank you! I just read your post after answering the one about possibility of deaf flight attendants, so now I think that I misinterpreted the gesture. Perhaps it was unrelated to the comment about being deaf, which was a joke?

It was probably the index finger instead of the little finger, and she was using it as you described, perhaps to mean they were out of some kind of drink. Because the conversation was in Italian, I really don't know, but it seems more likely that she was using a common gesture than one that you don't recognize. It's another good lesson about being careful how I interpret what people say!

No, I don't find it disturbing at all to have people gesture. I like it! What I do find embarassing is not understanding people correctly or saying/doing things that are rude. However, if I never tried to talk with people from other cultures, I would miss so much ... so I try to remind myself that being embarassed sometimes means that I am trying!

Lorna


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## Arrius

In romantic movies, from pre-war to contemporary, it often occurs that the heroine, as she gazes longingly into the face of her beloved, looks rapidly and repeatedly from one of his eyes to the other. The sexual rôles do not seem to be reversible. The meaning of this action is unambiguous, but there are still some unanswered questions about it:
a) Does this occur in real life, or is it just a Hollywood convention? I, myself, have never observed it anywhere apart from the silver screen, and it has never happened to me, or at least, I have never noticed it.
b) If this rapid change of focus does actually occur in the real world, does it count as body language or is it just a function of the autonomous nervous system in which the brain does not intervene, like removing the hand spontaneously from a source of intense heat or shivering with cold?


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## .   1

Arrius said:


> In romantic movies, from pre-war to contemporary, it often occurs that the heroine, as she gazes longingly into the face of her beloved, looks rapidly and repeatedly from one of his eyes to the other. The sexual rôles do not seem to be reversible. The meaning of this action is unambiguous, but there are still some unanswered questions about it:


Your very question seems to indicate that you may have missed a shade or two here.
The action is a very ambiguous one and will raise immediate questions in the mind of the other person.



Arrius said:


> a) Does this occur in real life, or is it just a Hollywood convention? I, myself, have never observed it anywhere apart from the silver screen, and it has never happened to me, or at least, I have never noticed it.


This is a very real life situation and occurs far more often than most people realise.



Arrius said:


> b) If this rapid change of focus does actually occur in the real world, does it count as body language or is it just a function of the autonomous nervous system in which the brain does not intervene, like removing the hand spontaneously from a source of intense heat or shivering with cold?


Yes it is real body language. It is actually one of the most commonly interpreted and well known indicators we have the problem here is that you have isolated it to a specific situation and are misinterpreting it as a result.

The rapid shift of focus from one eye to the other is common in conversations all over the world. It is not a sign of sexual or romantic thoughts. It is a sign of nervousness or unease or lying.

A person who has just told you a lie will either stare straight into your eyes or will flick rapidly from one eye to the other looking for signs in you that the lie has been successful. A truther will just casually flick from one eye to the other eye in the same rhythm as the rest of the conversation.

People will stare straight into your eyes and not flick from one to the other if they consider themself to be dominant or if they are angry.

Young love is nervous and unsure and is constantly seeking reassurance. It is most certainly a cross gender thing and many movies have a boy doing the rapid eye flick to the girl of his dreams.

Me and the cheese and kisses still exchange the eye flick in moments of passion when we are trying something new.

.,,


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## alexacohen

jlc246 said:


> You might be right that it would be too dangerous. Because there are other flight attendants also on board, a hearing impaired attendant could work as part of a team in an emergency,


Deaf people can't work as flight attendants. Not even as part of a work team. In fact they have to go through hearing tests (along with many others) each year. 
It's not discrimination: if there is an emergency, the captain normally informs the crew through the inside telephone, and gives them instructions. A deaf person would be unable to receive such instructions, and compromise the security of both passengers and rest of the crew.
Alexa


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## jlc246

Thanks for the info - I'll keep that in mind next time! L.


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## Arrius

*To .,,*
Thank you for your detailed explanation. I admit that I have always been rather unobservant. However, the opinion of some other forum member more knowledgeable and observant than myself on this matter would be most welcome, to see if they are in agreement with all you say. 
I have often witnessed in subsaharan Africa among the autochthonous population this rapid change of focus you refer to as indicating nervousness, particularly when something has gone wrong. It is often accompanied by a slight giggle indicating embarrassment and not in the least intended to imply that anything funny has occurred, but which, in the past, has nevertheless often mistakenly infuriated newly arrived European schoolmasters and employers, even missionaries. By the way, it may interest you to know that cheese, which you mention in your last posting, known there as "chisi" is regarded as an aphrodisiac among the Bantu. Something to do with the general lack of protein in the diet I suspect.
*"People will stare straight into your eyes and not flick from one to the other if they consider themself to be dominant or if they are angry."*
This,sometimes followed by physical violence,I can, unfortunately, corroborate.


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## birus

I don't think I am "more knowledgeable and observant than yourself on this matter "...
however my opinion is that the rapid shift of focus from one eye to the other can surely be semantically relevant (foriero di significato), but most of times (always?), at least in my culture, it is involuntary.
As I said, italians use a huge amount of body language gestures, but this is certainly not one of them (as for the intentional ones, I repeat).
Do you find it esay to do such a movement with your eyes on purpose? I find it quite complicated.
I thought that the first question in this post was mainly addressing the intentional gestures. Anyway this can be an interesting subject of discussion, too.
Hoping not to be off-topic....


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## Arrius

birus said:


> I don't think I am "more knowledgeable and observant than yourself on this matter "...
> however my opinion is that the rapid shift of focus from one eye to the other can surely be semantically relevant (foriero di significato), but most of times (always?), at least in my culture, it is involuntary.
> As I said, italians use a huge amount of body language gestures, but this is certainly not one of them (as for the intentional ones, I repeat).
> Do you find it esay to do such a movement with your eyes on purpose? I find it quite complicated.
> I thought that the first question in this post was mainly addressing the intentional gestures. Anyway this can be an interesting subject of discussion, too.
> Hoping not to be off-topic....


 
foriero(che presagisce (soprattutto guai))
The above definition is from our on-site dictionary. I take it that guai means the same as Spanish "guay" and firiero means " that promises something, especially something nice".
I, for one, certainly do not think that you are off-topic. I personally do not find the rapid switching of focus from eye to eye of the person being gazed at at all easy, and it has never been part of my own paralinguistic repertoire or that of any real person I have ever known. We have still not come to a general agreement as to what extent it is consciously used body language, though the cinematographic use of the gesture, obviously artificially simulated and often on the instructions of the film director, is sufficiently well-known.


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## french4beth

I sometimes look into the person's other eye if I am having trouble understanding what they are saying; generally people in the US look at the right side of the person's face (which would be on the left if you're facing them). If I have to look into a person's left eye, for example if they're rubbing their eye or are squinting into the sun, it feels uncomfortable (not sure why).

There's a very interesting article here: http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/body_language.php There are too many items to post here, but in various cultures, pointing at someone, patting them on the hand, passing something with 1 hand, can all be considered to be offensive.

If I remember correctly, in Russia, if you put your hand underneath your chin and make a fist (facing towards you) and then flick underneath your chin with your pointer finger, it means you want someone to buy a drink for you (Russian foreros, please correct me if I'm wrong).


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## SaritaSarang

Arrius said:


> 2) In Germany, especially whilst driving a motor car, tapping the temple(side of the head) with the middle and index fingers means that you think that the other driver is an idiot. This so infuriates the other driver that it has provoked "road rage" and cause accidents, so that the gesture is now a punishable offence. ADAC, the German automobile association has tried to compensate by introducing a sign for "Entschuldigung" (Sorry) which consists in raising vertically the three middle fingers with the back of the hand towards the other driver. I don't know if it ever caught on. Conveniently, this capital E made by the raised fingers also stands for "excuse me", "excusez-moi" and "ekskuus". However, the same first sign if used during an amicable conversation off the road implies "Köpfchen, Köpfchen" - it is/was necessary to use your/my head, think carefully.



That reminds me of the most common form of "road rage body language" here in the u.s,  giving the middle finger.  People love to do it. I may be going 25 because I'm in a school zone, and someone will drive around me and flip me the bird because i wasn't going fast enough. ( even though its against the law to go more than 25 in a school zone)  Hopefully this is only where I live (??)  I'm curious as to how often people flip others off in other states.


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## Arrius

The American sign of abuse describe by SaritaSarang, formerly unknown in the UK, and comprising a raised straight middle finger, with knuckles towards the target of the sign, is rapidly replacing the British equivalent of middle and index fingers forming a V, with the knuckles also towards the object of abuse. The American sign is phallic in origin, the British indicates the preposition "up". The latter sign is not to be confused with the V for victory sign of WW II made popular by Churchill, in which the knuckles are turned inwards towards the person making the sign, and the two fingers are not jerked upwards as in the obscene one.
  The beckoning sign made with the forefinger as described in French4Beth's link is replaced in the Arab Peninsula by bending all the fingers of the outstretched right hand except the thumb several times with the back of the hand uppermost. To show the soles of the feet is also taboo there, as mentioned elsewhere in the same link, but unless done deliberately(which is unlikely), I do not think this constitutes body language. However, to slap someone with your(removed) sandal is a very grave insult indeed and occasionally found amongst unruly schoolboys. This must be body language because the wielder of the sandal has deliberately chosen the filthiest weapon available to humiliate his opponent on whom he is usually wreaking vengeance for a real or imagined insult.


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## .   1

birus said:


> Do you find it esay to do such a movement with your eyes on purpose? I find it quite complicated.


Definitely.  It is easier when I am in a position of dominance but being a crusty 50 years old with an independant income I seldom feel the need to tug a forelock.
I have the advantage of being 1.87 metres tall and it is easier to do it when looking down.

Just about all physical gestures can be mimiked by an accomplished actor and are we not all actors all the time it is just a matter of some of us being better actors than others.


Everybody has a face that they keep in a jar by the door.
You are only ever really yourself when you are by yourself.

.,,


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## birus

> foriero(che presagisce (soprattutto guai))
> The above definition is from our on-site dictionary. I take it that guai means the same as Spanish "guay" and firiero means " that promises something, especially something nice".


Garzanti dictionary for "foriero": "che, chi precede e preannunzia qualcosa", "foreboding, portending, presaging, heralding".
I admit I should have used a different term. I used to believe foriero meant "that brings / carries ..." because I remember my Italian teacher telling us it came from latin verb FERRE (to carry, among other meanings).
But I find out now that the etymology is different and she was wrong!!!


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