# neef/neefje



## Syzygy

Hi, everyone.

Do _neef_ and _neefje_ mean the same thing in Dutch or is the former used for cousin and the latter for nephew?
And if they are synonymous, is it common practice to explicitly explain the relationsship with, say, "de zoon van mijn tante" before using these words in a conversation so as to avoid confusion?
I imagine the same applies to _nicht_/_nichtje_.

Thanks!


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## HKK

It's pretty blurry actually. The diminutive can make the difference between cousin and nephew/niece but it can also depend on the age of the subject or even the age of the speaker. When the relation is not clear, the distinction is made as you said. However, the potential meanings of the diminutive often amount to the same thing since your nephew/niece will usually be younger than you, making confusion less common than one may expect.


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## Peterdg

Just as a side note: in Belgium (and I think, only in Belgium), also the word "kozijn" is used to mean cousin (only for male relatives; there is no equivalent for female relatives).


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## NewtonCircus

Dag Syzygy,

Neef/Nicht = Cousin
Neefje = Nephew
Nichtje = Niece

Confusion hardly exists in reality since it is very uncommon to address a cousin as _neefje _unless you purposely want to belittle him or get cosy with him. In the same way you would call your 50-year old younger brother "little brother". Calling your nephew _neef_ is also unusual since we tend to use first names after a certain age.  

Groetjes Herman

PS: Like most Dutch words used to describe family relationships_ nicht _has a derogatory/vulgar/offensive meaning as well whenever used for a non-relative.


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## Lopes

NewtonCircus said:


> Neef/Nicht = Cousin
> Neefje = Nephew
> Nichtje = Niece



I would say, 
neef/nicht: cousin/nephew/niece
neefje/nichtje: cousin/nephew/niece

It all depends on the context.



NewtonCircus said:


> Confusion hardly exists in reality since it is very uncommon to address a cousin as _neefje _


_
_No, it's not. And this thread is not only about addressing. 



NewtonCircus said:


> Calling your nephew _neef_ is also unusual since we tend to use first names after a certain age.


Again, it's not that unusual, and not only about addressing. 





NewtonCircus said:


> PS: Like *most *Dutch words used to describe family relationships_ nicht _has a derogatory/vulgar/offensive meaning as well whenever used for a non-relative.



Like which?


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## NewtonCircus

Lopes said:


> No, it's not.





Lopes said:


> Again, it's not that unusual.


Lets say that we both agree to disagree .



Lopes said:


> Like which?


You mean you call your colleague _nicht _and a busdriver_ grootvader_?. That is nice . 

Groeten Herman


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## Lopes

NewtonCircus said:


> Lets say that we both agree to disagree .
> 
> You mean you call your colleague _nicht _and a busdriver_ grootvader_?. That is nice .
> 
> Groeten Herman



You already mentioned _nicht. _I don't think my busdriver would be very offended if I called him zoon, vader, oom, neef, oudoom, zwager, stiefvader, schoonzoon, etc.


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## NewtonCircus

Dag Lopes,
Am I the only one who thinks that you can't "safely" tell the following to a busdriver or gas station attendant?

_Vader/oudoom, een ticket naar Gent.
Broer, gooi hem maar vol. _

Groetjes Herman


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## Sjonger

I agree with Herman that calling someone _vader_, _zoon, opa, tante, zus _is usually negatively connotated, though in my opinion it's not necessarily offensive. It's indeed not very polite to adress the bus driver as _vader/oom/opa_, but you could i.e. say to a friend who is a bit slow: _he tante, schiet eens wat op_. I'm also under the impression that this use of family relations is becoming less common (with exception of nicht, but that's also more specific than _vader_, _zoon_, etc.)


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## HKK

NewtonCircus said:


> Dag Lopes,
> Am I the only one who thinks that you can't "safely" tell the following to a busdriver or gas station attendant?
> 
> _Vader/oudoom, een ticket naar Gent.
> Broer, gooi hem maar vol. _
> 
> Groetjes Herman



That would strike me as so unexpected and ludicrous that I wouldn't even think of getting offended


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## marinus

I wonder if there have been terms to differentiate between neef/neefje and nicht/nichtje in older variants of the Dutch language, that eventually have become obsolete.


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## marinus

Looked it up in an online Dutch etymological dictionary and found the words 'cousijn', 'cosijn' and 'kozijn', borrowed from Old French 'cosin'. Funnily enough, the word 'kozijn' also means 'window/door frame', and that word is still in use.
More information at etymologiebank.nl: 'kozijn'.


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## Lopes

NewtonCircus said:


> Dag Lopes,
> Am I the only one who thinks that you can't "safely" tell the following to a busdriver or gas station attendant?
> 
> _Vader/oudoom, een ticket naar Gent.
> Broer, gooi hem maar vol. _
> 
> Groetjes Herman



I don't know if you're the only one, but I don't agree with you  
Like HKK said, it would just be strange, not offensive.


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## matakoweg

Bij ons in Noord-Holland wordt ook de term "oomzegger", "oomzegster" gebruikt om onderscheid te maken tussen neef in de betekenis cousin en nephew.


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