# Is the imperative form considered rude?



## elalquimista

Hi, Nick here, a student at UNCW who is about to study abroad in Salamanca next semester. I have a question regarding the Imperative form. What is the correct social situation in which it would be acceptable to use the imperative form? Or should the form be completely disregarded for other verb forms (such as conditional poder + infinitive)? And lastly, does a formal UD function as more of a request than a direct command? 

Muchas Gracisimas!


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## inib

Hello, Nick. Welcome.
You may receive other opinions which differ from mine, but here's one reply, at least. In my experience, the imperative is used much more widely in Spain and seems to be acceptable in all situations. People don't usually mess around saying "Please could you possibly give me two pounds of apples, if you don't mind?" They just say "Dame/Deme un kilo de manzanas, (por favor)". This can be considered perfectly polite, as long as the tone is right.
The usage of _Usted_ vs _Tú_ is a complex issue, but if you'd normally address someone as "tú", putting the imperative in the "Usted" form would be incongruent and wouldn't make the command any gentler, if that is what you were asking.


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## Rondivu

In general, it's not rude to use the imperative as long as you accompany it with an appropriate tone of voice and a smile .
In order not to make the imperative sound impolite, we tend to include the person's name and "haz el favor"/"por favor".
Yesterday, I was having a coffee at the usual place and I wanted a glass of water afterwards and told the waitress:

Mira, tráeme un vaso de agua, haz el favor ( again, the tone of voice is important). " Tráeme un vaso de agua" ,kept in isolation, would have sounded impolite.

You're going to Salamanca, presumably to study at university, so I'd suggest you don't use the imperative when talking to your tutor, professors and any official there.

This is too broad a topic to be dealt with in a single thread. Using just the imperative will depend on the situation and the relation you have with your interlocutor.


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## duvija

In case of an emergency, the imperative is totally needed. Otherwise, you have to soften it somehow. (intonation, gesture, wording...)


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## Rubns

Rondivu said:


> This is too broad a topic to be dealt with in a single thread. Using just the imperative will depend on the situation and the relation you have with your interlocutor.



I agree

For example in stores I'd use the imperative but adding a "me" before. For example: "¿*me* das/da un kilo de tomates?" instead of "dame/deme un kilo de tomates". Although you can use "dame" if you add "por favor" at the end.


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## Rondivu

Rubns said:


> I agree
> 
> For example in stores I'd use the imperative but adding a "me" before. For example: "¿*me* das/da un kilo de tomates?" instead of "dame/deme un kilo de tomates". Although you can use "dame" if you add "por favor" at the end.



Can we safely say your example is not in the imperative but it is a polite request?
Anyway, I wouldn't recommend a foreigner to use the imperative.
¿Me das/traes, etc? is a good alternative. I'm positively sure that the use or not of the imperative varies from region to region throughout America, Spain and any other Spanish speaking country.
What Inib  has mentioned is also true where I live. "Ponme  un café" is heard, but I have not got used to it yet. It's impolite to my ears.
What I also noticed is the overuse of "por favor" and "gracias" by foreigners. We don't use them that much.
By the way, Elalquimista, I wish you a pleasant stay in  Spain.


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## levmac

elalquimista said:


> Or should the form be completely disregarded for other verb forms (such as conditional poder + infinitive)?



Definitely not! "Me puedes traer la cuenta?" is perfectly correct spanish, but if you work in a restaurant, you will be lucky if 5% of customers use any kind of form like that. It's definitely completely normal to use the imperative.

I personally nearly always use the present.

"Me *pones *un cafe con leche por favor?"

That to me seems about as pleasant as "could I have?" I would definitely never say "Me podrías poner...?" In fact, I once heard an American translate "Could I get a sandwich?" as "Podría conseguir un bocadillo?" 



> And lastly, does a formal UD function as more of a request than a direct command?



I have lived in BCN for four years and used usted about 1% of the time. If I find the other person - perhaps an old shopkeeper or a banker - using usted, i follow them, but otherwise it's tú. Bear in mind that in Spanish, as in English, being more polite than is usual can actually seem cold. If you went into starbucks and said, "I'm awfully sorry, but I wondered if I might be able to request a coffee," it would sound odd, and saying usted, por favor, perdón and gracias every 30 seconds is one of the most characteristic things  a foreigner wll do here.


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## Rondivu

levmac said:


> Definitely not! "Me puedes traer la cuenta?" is perfectly correct spanish, but if you work in a restaurant, you will be lucky if 5% of customers use any kind of form like that. It's definitely completely normal to use the imperative.



I agree with what you say in your post buy I'd like to point out that people use the imperative when ordering in a bar *if* they are *regulars*.
As I said before, ¿Me das/da, traes/trae? is fine.


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## inib

levmac said:


> In fact, I once heard an American translate "Could I get a sandwich?" as "Podría conseguir un bocadillo?"


Your comments are bringing me back a load of memories, Levmac. MANY years ago, when I didn't know "¿Me/Nos cobras, por favor?", I translated literally from English and asked a waiter "¿Podemos pagar?". Quite logically, as a reply I got "Espero que sí"!


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## levmac

inib said:


> Your comments are bringing me back a load of memories, Levmac. MANY years ago, when I didn't know "¿Me/Nos cobras, por favor?", I translated literally from English and asked a waiter "¿Podemos pagar?". Quite logically, as a reply I got "Espero que sí"!



That's very sweet! I don't know if I ever said that, I am sure I did. I think in general I started with "la cuenta por favor" and then, when I was feeling brave, I started using cobrar. Actually, remembering it, because I had a Spanish gf in my first year, i think i overused "porfi" as well. I thought it was really cute, but I probably used in bars where they didn't know me from Adam!


The other thing that is hard is not translating every please, sorry, and thank you, otherwise you sound weird:

Cashier says "veinte con setenta y cinco"
Englishman gives her the money and says "gracias" (Spanish customer would be silent)
Cashier hands back the change.
Englishman says "gracias" (Spanish customer would be silent)
Cashier fishes out the receipt
Englishman says "gracias" (Spanish customer finally says "gracias")


Two men turn a corner and bump into each other:

In England, both people say sorry, acknowledging it was an unpleasant experience for all concerned.
In Spain, neither person says sorry, because it wasn't anyone's fault.

(Obviously everyone's an individual, there will be differences from one place to another, etc.)


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## caelum

levmac said:


> Two men turn a corner and bump into each other:
> 
> In England, both people say sorry, acknowledging it was an unpleasant experience for all concerned.
> In Spain, neither person says sorry, because it wasn't anyone's fault.
> 
> (Obviously everyone's an individual, there will be differences from one place to another, etc.)



This is I'm sure what gives me away every time as a non-local, regardless of how well I try to act like one.


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## duvija

Uh, we all screw up. My first months in the US (I'm afraid it's more like ' my first years...' ), in order to move towards the door in a packed bus, I would translate 'disculpe' (which in Uruguay at least is a short version of ' please, move your butt so I can get thru' ) for " I'm sorry, I'm sorry", and I couldn't understand why people would give me a strange look but wouldn't budge.


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## Rubns

levmac said:


> In England, both people say sorry, acknowledging it was an unpleasant experience for all concerned.
> In Spain, neither person says sorry, because it wasn't anyone's fault.
> 
> (Obviously everyone's an individual, there will be differences from one place to another, etc.)



Neither person says "sorry" or you may hear something like: "uy que nos chocamos" / "uy nos chocamos" followed by a smile. lol


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## caelum

duvija said:


> Uh, we all screw up. My first months in the US (I'm afraid it's more like ' my first years...' ), in order to move towards the door in a packed bus, I would translate 'disculpe' (which in Uruguay at least is a short version of ' please, move your butt so I can get thru' ) for " I'm sorry, I'm sorry", and I couldn't understand why people would give me a strange look but wouldn't budge.





Vi eso mucho en Cuba. Me pareció raro en el momento, pero puedo ver de dónde viene la confusión.


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## pubman

inib said:


> Your comments are bringing me back a load of memories, Levmac. MANY years ago, when I didn't know "¿Me/Nos cobras, por favor?", I translated literally from English and asked a waiter "¿Podemos pagar?". Quite logically, as a reply I got "Espero que sí"!



Hi inib, how ¿me/nos cobras, por favor? differ  from 'la cuenta' I know they mean the same.


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## Rubns

"¿me/nos cobras, por favor?" is simply more formal than "la cuenta". But I'd never use just "la cuenta", I'd say something like "¿nos/me traes la cuenta?". "Por favor" is optional, but in Spain it's not usual.


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## pubman

Rubns said:


> "¿me/nos cobras, por favor?" is simply more formal than "la cuenta". But I'd never use just "la cuenta", I'd say something like "¿nos/me traes la cuenta?". "Por favor" is optional, but in Spain it's not usual.



Thank-you Rubns, I tend to say like so many Brits " la cuenta por favour"


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## levmac

Rubns said:


> "¿me/nos cobras, por favor?" is simply more formal than "la cuenta". But I'd never use just "la cuenta", I'd say something like "¿nos/me traes la cuenta?". "Por favor" is optional, but in Spain it's not usual.



A note for foreigners - me/nos cobras may be more formal when seated, but it is super useful for when, after eating or drinking, you go to the bar to pay.


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## Nipnip

elalquimista said:


> Hi, Nick here, a student at UNCW who is about to study abroad in Salamanca next semester. I have a question regarding the Imperative form. What is the correct social situation in which it would be acceptable to use the imperative form? Or should the form be completely disregarded for other verb forms (such as conditional poder + infinitive)? And lastly, does a formal UD function as more of a request than a direct command?
> 
> Muchas Gracisimas!



More than one person has mentioned it already, *tone. *The Spanish are known in the Spanish speaking world for their lack of protocol and etiquette in transactional situations, so the use of the imperative is a lot mote common than in South America or Latin America, however, I would suggest you refrain from using it until you have picked the local customs from natives and see how they conduct themselves.

Also, do not take offense if someone is dry and cold to you, they most probably won't mean any harm, it just that they're not into saying all those niceties other cultures find so indispensable in relations.


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## inib

levmac said:


> A note for foreigners - me/nos cobras may be more formal when seated, but it is super useful for when, after eating or drinking, you go to the bar to pay.


Actually, I don't find "¿Me cobras?" formal at all. As you say, I use it at the bar. I'd only ask for the "cuenta" if I really wanted a bill (after a restaurant meal, for example), not just a till-ticket or nothing.



Nipnip said:


> Also, do not take offense *if someone is dry and cold to you*, they most probably won't mean any harm, it just that they're not into saying all those niceties other cultures find so indispensable in relations.


I agree. In fact, I would rephrase that as "seems to speak dryly and coldly to you" or just "bluntly". In most cases, their actions and attitude will make it clear that they're friendlier than most.


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## levmac

And, for balance, there is plenty to be said in favour of Spanish manners too. 

- "buen provecho" is an almost compulsory utterance every time they see you eating. When I go to the UK I kind of miss it.
- It's much more common for people to say "thank you" when they leave a shop without buying.
- the fact that everyone is guapo or cariño is kind of charming. One of my clients calls me "guapísimo" (!)
- I actually see logic in the sorry thing I mentioned above.
- Spanish customer service can seem shoddy by our standards, but when it's good, it tends to be good in a very genuine and heartfelt away.


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## inib

levmac said:


> And, for balance, there is plenty to be said in favour of Spanish manners too.


*Yes*, they'll never to be too shy to vociferously hail "Buenos días" to a whole shopful of  20 people, (even if they won't queue behind them!) And once they've been served, they'll walk out of the shop with a lovely loud "Felices Fiestas" for all too. Who'd do that in England?


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## loudspeaker

levmac said:


> And, for balance, there is plenty to be said in favour of Spanish manners too.
> - "buen provecho" is an almost compulsory utterance every time they see you eating.    When I go to the UK I kind of miss it.



The funny thing about this is that, in fact, saying “que aproveche”/"buen provecho" is sometimes considered inappropriate if you want to keep your good manners, I would say it could be even somewhat rude. It is one of those courtesy manners coming (maybe) from the popular and working classes.
According to the protocol you should not use it, unless you are in "La tasca de Manolo", where you would probably find toilet notices such as this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YIMh82kgkfk/S9oWTQGq7MI/AAAAAAAADFs/yISPa7xeWp4/s400/el+bar+de+abajo.JPG

Haha


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## caelum

Weird about 'buen provecho'. That's a big difference between Spain and latinoamérica. In many places in Latin America, you'll hear it from people as they sit for a meal and as they leave. It's never inappropriate (as far as I could make out).


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## Rubns

It's not really inappropriate, unless you're eating with very posh people. If you say: ¡buen provecho! sounds rather odd in this context. But it's not rare to hear the waiter say "que aproveche" when s/he's serving you the food in almost any restaurant (it doesn't necessarily have to be a "Tasca de Manolo" or "Bar Don Pepe" ).


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## caelum

As always, the kindness of others is too common for the posh.


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## Rubns

Well you can always say "bon appétit" and "quedarás como un rey" among this kind of people


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## caelum

No necesito caerles bien.


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## Rondivu

Well, I hardly ever say "que aproveche" and I'm not posh!!
In my opinion, there are occasions and places where this phrase is not used/not welcome: restaurants, business meals and in general in places where there's some kind of official meeting.
I can also say that amongst family members and friends some use it and some don't. What I want to make clear is that saying "que aproveche" when you see someone eating is not a compulsory utterance.


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