# to be at a premium



## fabfab

How would you translate this collocation as in
"During the Olympic Games, accommodation will *be at a premium*".

It does not necessarily means that it's expensive, that's why I am not really satisfied with the WR translation "à prix élevé".


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## ocid

de qualité
irréprochable


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## sebnever

ocid said:


> de qualité
> irréprochable


But maybe *de grand standing* would fit better with the context, wouldn't it?


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## ocid

sebnever said:


> But maybe *de grand standing* would fit better with the context, wouldn't it?


oui c'est bien aussi, mais cela implique un prix élevé


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## david314

fabfab said:


> How would you translate this collocation as in
> "During the Olympic Games, accommodation will *be at a premium*".
> 
> It does not necessarily means that it's expensive, that's why I am not really satisfied with the WR translation "*à prix élevé*".


 That's one possible definition, but we are probably speaking _figuratively (*de première importance, dificile à obtenir*_?). I do not believe that ocid's suggestions are correct.


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## sebnever

david314 might be right...


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## david314

sebnever said:


> But maybe *de grand standing* would fit better with the context, wouldn't it?


 Rather, this means *luxury*. It is easy to understand how you made this _minor mistake_. Bonne chance.


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## dewsy

Surely to be at a premium means that the demand is larger than the supply?


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## david314

dewsy said:


> Surely to be at a premium means that the demand is larger than the supply?


 You are correct, sir. This is why I believe that our phrase _could be_ translated as *à prix élevé*. That being said, as I mentioned previously, I believe that we are speaking _figuratively_. Maybe it's both ! increased price & the state of being hard to get


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## yann_ccc

"premium" is added-value, but not necessarily in terms of money, so if you want to avoid the connotation of a high price why not try
- "de qualité irréprochable"
- or "donnera entière satisfaction"
- or "ne décevra personne" etc.


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## david314

yann_ccc said:


> "premium" is added-value, but not necessarily in terms of money, so if you want to avoid the connotation of a high price why not try
> - "*de qualité irréprochable*"
> - or "donnera entière satisfaction"
> - or "ne décevra personne" etc.


 But this _is not_ the meaning of our phrase. It is the preposition & indefinite article which we must consider: _to be at a premium_. You have defined *of premium quality*, instead.


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## yann_ccc

I did mean
accommodation will *be at a premium =*
"l'hôtellerie sera d'une qualité irréprochable" etc.


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## david314

yann_ccc said:


> I did mean
> accommodation will *be at a premium =*
> "l'hôtellerie sera d'une qualité irréprochable" etc.


 I'm sorry my friend, but I am confident that that _is not_ an accurate translation. I could be mistaken, but I would be very surprised. 

The more that I think about it, the more I lean towards the idea that we are speaking _literally_: *à prix élevé*


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## ocid

how about "sera à la hauteur"?


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## Already-Seen

> "During the Olympic Games, accommodation will *be at a premium*".


Pendant les J.O., les coûts d'hébergement seront plus élevés (sous/entendu: qu'ils ne devraient l'être).


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## Valdensis

I don't think the meaning is about the prices, but about the rarety, isn't it ?

"les chambres d'hôtel seront précieuses", "seront recherchées".


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## Already-Seen

It means accommodation will be more expensive because of the shortage that is likely to happen due to the Olympics.

*



at a premium More valuable than usual, as from scarcity: Fresh water was at a premium after the reservoir was contaminated.

Click to expand...

* 
But also: (Valdensis definition a. is for you) 


> *at a premium*
> *a*. in great demand, usually because of scarcity
> *b*. at a higher price than usual [Latin _praemium_ prize]


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## wildan1

I agree--it can either be supply is less than demand or the cost will be higher.

_Tickets will be at a premium_ -- for a popular play or sports game: "good luck, they are hard to find" (and you will have to pay whatever they ask)
Space will be at a premium (on a flight, train, etc.--you will have a hard time making a reservation and might have to pay for first class)

I agree with others, ocid and sebnever, that this expression has nothing to do directly with "grand standing"--it's about cost (which may not be very good value)


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## Valdensis

If it's about the price : "le prix des logements sera au plus haut"
Or "Durant les Jeux olympiques, la forte demande va faire exploser le prix des logements (de l'hébergement)"; so we have both meanings : price, and rarety


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## bloomiegirl

I believe (as do David and Wildan and Valdensis' first post) that this is expression is about scarcity and/or probable higher price because of the scarcity. But I think it is sometimes even used when only scarcity is involved. 

The definition in the free dictonary (Collins) is given by Already-Seen. o I didn't have to quote it because it's already seen.) I don't think it's a coincidence that the first definition that they give regards scarcity, not price.

My comments here are only for the given context, not for stocks or bonds trading at a premium, where the focus is on money (but again, driven by scarcity).


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## aureliaweil

pourquoi ne pas traduire par" rare et cher?"


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## bloomiegirl

Aurelia, "_rare et cher_" (_le dernier, si l'on peut en trouver!_) is not bad at all! Looking back at the thread, I also think that "_précieux_," suggested by Valdensis, works especially well.


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## david314

aureliaweil said:


> pourquoi ne pas traduire par" *rare et cher*?"


 That sure does seem to 'cover all of the bases'.


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## Punky Zoé

Hi there !

My two cents... 
Is 'at a premium' colloquial ? If it is, we could simply say "l'hébergement va être cher" which means both expensive in the common sense and in short supply in a figurative meanning.

Example : Les Rolling-stones vont se produire à Paris mais les places vont être chères !


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## bloomiegirl

But Punky, translating back into English, I wouldn't use "at a premium" at all... For the sentences in your post, on their own, I would translate "_cher_" as "expensive."

As for your question, "at a premium" is not colloquial. It's a standard English idiom, and appears unmarked in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (link).


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## Punky Zoé

bloomiegirl said:


> But Punky, translating back into English, I wouldn't use "at a premium" at all... For the sentences in your post, on their own, I would translate "_cher_" as "expensive."


Not at all, in my example it means "rare" not inevitably expensive.


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## bloomiegirl

Oooo, maybe I shop too much! (True to my name ) 
I'll have to remember that "expensive" is not the primary meaning of "_cher_." 
Thank you.


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## johndot

Not at all, in my example it means "rare" not inevitably expensive. (Punky Zoé, post #26)

I’m afraid, Punky Zoé, that if I had to translate your sentence (Les Rolling-stones vont se produire à Paris mais les places vont être chères) with the aid of Larousse Compact Plus, I would have no other choices than ‘dear’ or ‘expensive’.


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## bloomiegirl

Thank you, JohnDot, that's what I was trying to express to Punky Zoé  in post #25 (alas, it didn't come out right). I was hoping for a *FRENCH IDIOM* equivalent to "at a premium." But there just doesn't seem to be one.

I just checked _Babylon amélioré avec Google_; it translates "at a premium" into French as follows: "_rare, d'une grande valeur; recherché; à prix d'or; précieux_." The list is familiar (actually we did well on this thread). But, never, ever, would a back-translation of any of these French terms yield the *ENGLISH IDIOM* "at a premium." Therein lies the rub; forced to use a nonidiomatic French expression, the realm of idioms is left behind, and there is just no way back.


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## Nicomon

> *bloomiegirl *...I believe (as do David and Wildan and Valdensis' first post) that this expression is about scarcity and/or probable higher price because of the scarcity. But I think it is sometimes even used when only scarcity is involved.


 I do to. 

An example found in the Robert & Collins dictionary under _To be at a premium_ is :
- _If space is *at a premium*, choose adaptable furniture : si l'espace *est limité*, choisissez des meubles modulables. _

However assuming the context is this below, I'd vote for "higher price than usual". In other words... _*Il ne sera pas facile de se loger à bon prix . Rarissime et hors prix. *_


> Accommodation will be at a premium during the Olympics. Below is a list of accommodations that have signed a no extra premium agreement. *Source*


 


> *bloomiegirl* ... not for stocks or bonds trading at a premium, where the focus is on money (but again, driven by scarcity).


 That, in a finance context and as per the GDT, would be in French _au dessus du pair/du prix d'émission._ And they give "_above par_" as synonym in English. 

Going back to R&C , this time under _premium _
- _to be *sold* at a premium (on Stock Exchange) = être vendu à prime_

Edit : Boy!, am I ever slow! Hadn't seen your last post, bloomie.


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## bloomiegirl

Hi Nicomon... I think R&C has got it right, for the "stock" side of the "at a premium" idiom. And what a contrast: in this case, it's a cinch that the back-translation of "_à prime_" would be "at a premium"!

Nice to hear from you.


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## Punky Zoé

bloomiegirl said:


> But Punky, translating back into English, I wouldn't use "at a premium" at all... For the sentences in your post, on their own, I would translate "_cher_" as "expensive."





johndot said:


> I’m afraid, Punky Zoé, that if I had to translate your sentence (Les Rolling-stones vont se produire à Paris mais les places vont être chères) with the aid of Larousse Compact Plus, I would have no other choices than ‘dear’ or ‘expensive’.





bloomiegirl said:


> I'll have to remember that "expensive" is not the primary meaning of "_cher_."
> Thank you.





bloomiegirl said:


> Thank you, JohnDot, that's what I was trying to express to Punky Zoé  in post #25 (alas, it didn't come out right). I was hoping for a *FRENCH IDIOM* equivalent to "at a premium." But there just doesn't seem to be one.


Sorry for have been not clear enough , I didn't mean 'expensive' wasn't the primary meaning of "cher", it is as well as 'dear'.

But, try to make a search on Google with "les places sont chères", about 50% of the results don't mean expensive (or not only expensive) but short of supply or difficult place to enter.

I will open a new thread on "les places sont chères".


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