# FR: adjectif possessif devant un nom féminin commençant par une voyelle : ma, ta, sa / mon, ton, son



## salallyb

hiya, I was just wondering if you say son or sa origine. I know origine is feminine but it's easier to say son origine, which would I use?

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one.


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## latriaz

One says: 'son origine'


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## DearPrudence

You're right, before a vowel, even if the word is feminine, it should be "mon":
*"son origine"*
& *"mon amie" & "mon ami"* are pronounced exactly the same way


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## nils.pra

hello, 
we say son origine ,


> Devant un mot féminin dont l'initiale est une voyelle ou un *h* muet, on utilise _mon_, _ton_, _son_, au lieu de _ma_, _ta_, _sa_.



hope this helps : )


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## My Sunshine

I was told that when you are referring to your female friend, you say "mon amie" rather than "ma amie," although it is feminine.

Is this correct, and is it the same for ange, since it starts with an a?
For instance, if I am calling one of my female friends "my angel," would I call her "mon ange" or "ma ange?"

I've been saying "mon ange," but she insists that it is incorrect because her friend who is majoring in French said it should be "ma ange."

I could be wrong, but I'm unsure.

Could anyone please help clear this up?


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## my-own-fantasy

Je pense que c'est "mon ange".
Check with natives first though.


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## thorpig

You never have a possessive pronoun ending in a vowel paired with a noun beginning with a vowel! The difficulty in pronunciation has resulted in this usage.


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## PhilFrEn

Hi,

definitely "mon ange". "ange" is masculine, and will stay like that, even if you talk about a "feminine" person.


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## Argyll

Tu es mon ange, tu es mon soleil. No doubt about that.


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## Jsprilliman

When the possesive pronoun sa is used before a noun starting with a vowel does it become son?

My phrase is
_Sa explication était très informative_

Explication is a feminine noun but when I looked up explication in context it always had son preceding it.

Merci,
J.


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## Franglais1969

Yes it becomes son.  Son assiette.


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## FBC

Franglais is right (of course) but the reason why : we try to avoid having two voyels following each other. Pronounciation issues I guess.


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## Outsider

It's just like the English article _a_, which turns into _an_ before words that start with a vowel sound.


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## sensa

Hi,
How do i write "ma + appartenance"?

m'appartenance?

merci
sensa


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## radagasty

The masculine form is used, hence _mon appartenance._


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## nino4ka

Hello! I saw somewhere being written 'ma hantise, c'est de me retrouver en milieu hospitalier'. I wondered very much why it wasn't 'mon hantise' since as far as I'm concerned, the 'h' here is mute. Why 'ma'?


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## Donaldos

Le 'h' de "hantise" (ou "hanter") est bien aspiré, dans le sens où on ne lie pas la première syllabe contenant ce 'h' à la dernière  du mot précédent.  Ce 'h' aspiré se manifeste  donc par une très légère pause entre deux mots au lieu de la liaison habituelle. On est par contre assez loin du 'h' aspiré tel qu'on le trouve en finnois par exemple, d'où peut-être une certaine confusion...


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## MichiganQuebec

There are two ways the H is used in French.  It can be an "H muet" or an "H aspiré".  Both are technically "mute".  The difference is that the "H muet" requires a liaison with the word before it, whereas the "H aspiré" prohibits such a liaison.

Examples (H muet) : l'homme, l'heure, l'honnêteté, etc.  (not "le homme" or "la heure")
Examples (H aspiré) : le hibou, le haricot, la hantise, etc. (not "l'hibou" or "l'haricot")

Please note that an "H muet" is always preceeded by the masculine (mon, son, ton) regardless of the word's gender, but an "H aspiré" is preceeded by the masculine or feminine, depending on the word's gender.

Example (H muet): mon honnêteté (feminine word beginning with an H muet)
Example (H aspiré): ma hantise (feminine word beginning with an H aspiré)


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## tilt

Also note that the term _aspiré _is totally improper in French. Contrary to most languages which really have an aspirated _h_, French never prounouces its _h_.
The only difference between _h aspiré _and _h muet _stands in considering the former like a consonant and the latter like not existing before the following vowel (with the consequences it has on elisions, liaisons, and possessives).


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## ippadi

I'm revising for my exams next week and was wondering about the correct pronoun to use for the word 'affirmation'. I know it's a feminine word so should be preceded by 'sa' BUT is that right? 

I've seen 'son attention' written and this is also a feminine word, is it correct to write this way or is it just for speech, to make it easier to pronounce?

Many thanks


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## Captain Ishido

*Son affirmation.*
On ne fait pas se suivre deux voyelles en français.


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## janpol

"on ne fait pas suivre deux voyelles en français", dis-tu, Captain...
C'est vrai. On pourrait ajouter "quand c'est possible" car, malgré tous les moyens qu'on a imaginés pour éviter les hiatus, on peut tout de même en rencontrer qui traînent ici ou là... (tiens, dans "ici ou là", justement...)
"son attention" = "on" étant une voyelle, on a tout de même là deux voyelles qui se suivent mais, comme, par chance, cette nasale se transcrit avec un "n", on fait la liaison et on n'a plus tout à fait deux voyelles qui se suivent puisqu'une consonne vient s'intercaler et permet de faire la liaison...


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## Lothar64

Toujours utiliser "son" lorsque le nom commence par une voyelle.

Always use "son" when the noun begin by a vowel.

Quite easy for once in French language


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## Ralphie

Salut

Je comprend que si un mot commence avec une voyelle je dois utiliser son et pas sa même si c'est feminine mais je ne suis pas certain avec le mot habitude.

Son ou sa? 

Merci x


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## Cindé

On dit "son habitude"

Pour la lettre "h", on emploit "son" devant un "h" muet et "sa" devant un "h" aspiré.


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## frenchboy

Sans aucun doute, c'est 'son'.


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## wublili

Salut tout le monde. 

Could someone tell me which is the right way to write it. Because I'm not quite sure in which form the possessive pronoun should be... 

"*Mon ange*" should be correct. The pronoun is in masculine form due to liaison. 

But what about when there's an extra adjective added such in following case. Both could be pronounced easily (well, at least I could), so I'm not sure if there is needed to worry about that liaison. 

*Ma petit ange*

or is it 

*Mon petit ange*


I know the adjective needs to be in masculine because of the liaison. Should the possessive pronoun also be in masculine form as is the adjective ? Or should it be feminine like is the noun itself ?


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## janpol

"ange" est masculin (même si l'on n'a jamais apporté de réponse définitive à la question concernant le sexe des anges !)
donc "ma petite ange" est incorrect et "mon petit ange" est correct
les noms féminins commençant par une voyelle sont précédés d'un possessif masculin qui devient féminin si l'on ajoute un adjectif antéposé commençant par une consonne
"âme" = féminin - son âme - sa belle âme -
oeuvre - son oeuvre - sa principale oeuvre - son immense oeuvre -
amie - mon amie - ma chère amie - mon incomparable amie -

Wublili, tu parles de "pronoms", ce sont des adjectifs possessifs


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## finaud

I was looking at other threads and how they use the word 'mon' before some feminine  words starting with vowels or vowel sounds like histoire. when you have a vowel sound like 'h' eg hesitation, hypothese or hyperbole do you always employ the word mom (or son)?


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## Micia93

yes, you always use "mon" (or "son") before a feminine word starting with "h"

:=)


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## pointvirgule

Except maybe for _ma hyène_, but it's not very common.


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## Surfin' Bird

Oui mais "ma hiérarchie", "ma haine"...

Je ne sais pas s'il existe une règle ou si c'est du cas par cas.


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## pointvirgule

Merci Surfin' ! Je savais qu'il y avait d'autres noms féminins, mais il est très tard ici et j'ai la cervelle en purée.

En effet, il y a des mots dont le _h_ initial est dit « aspiré » (<- liste ici). Les dictionnaires les indiquent (par exemple, *hâte dans le Larousse).


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## Surfin' Bird

No probs!

Eh oui, la voilà la règle (me semble-t-il):
Mon, ton, son devant les h muets.
Ma, ta, sa devant les h aspirés.

Et pour savoir si un h est aspiré ou non, se référer au dictionnaire...


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## Micia93

all right, so, just to clarify for Finaud (the notion of "aspiré" and "muet" can be confusing for a non-native):
"*la* haine", "*la* hâte", "*la* hiérarchie", "la hyène" => use "*ma*"
"*l'*histoire", "*l'*hésitation", *l'*hypothèse" => use "*mon*"

:=)


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## Krendoshazin

Hi,

I know that when a feminine noun starts with a vowel -- such as 'amie' -- the masculine possessive is used: thus the correct grammar would be 'mon amie'. However, does this still apply if a premodifier is used, specifically in the case of 'petite amie'? Where 'little friend' means something specific -- that being one's girlfriend -- I wonder if 'petite amie' counts as a noun by itself, thus requiring 'ma'.


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## Maître Capello

No, the rule indeed exists only for the euphony. It therefore only applies when the possessive directly precedes a word beginning with a vowel (or mute _h_).

_*mon* *a*mie_
_*ma* *p*etite amie_
_*mon* *a*dmirable amie_
_*ma* *h*autaine amie_ (aspirated _h_)
_*mon* h*i*lare amie_ (mute _h_)


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## Morganlove

Hi krendoshazin, if you use the term of "petite amie", the pronoun "ma" is required, given that you are a boy, and the person you are talking about is a girl.

However if a girl says "petit ami" she needs to add "mon", because she is talking about a boy.

Hope that helps


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## Legally Drunk

Hello everybody!

So I know that we say *mon amie* instead of *ma amie, mon école* instead of *ma école*, etc. This way, we omit using two vowels in a row (m*a a*mie)

We also say *ma *maison*, *but *mon* ancienne maison (again, the *making things soundy *rule)


So, the rule should be: 
Masculine noun starting with a consonant will be used with ma, ta, sa, etc.
Feminine noun starting with vowel or h will be used with mon, ton, son, etc.

*Unless *there is an adjective in between. 


Is it right?

Does this rule always apply?

I've never heard a person say ma désir, but mon désir.


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## Bezoard

You are wrong.


> 1) Masculine noun starting with a consonant will be used with ma, ta, sa, etc.


No. All masculine nouns are used with_ mon, ton, son : mon désir._


> 2) Feminine noun starting with vowel or h will be used with mon, ton, son, etc.
> *Unless *there is an adjective in between.


No. As you noticed, we also say _"mon ancienne maison"_ (but _"ma vieille maison", mon assez vieille maison"_).
So, for feminine nouns, we use the possessive adjectives _ma, ta, sa_, except if the possessive adjective is followed by a word (noun, adjective, adverb) starting with a vowel or a mute "h", in which case _ma, ta, sa_ is replaced by _mon, ton son_.
Quelle est la règle pour utiliser « mon » avec des noms féminins ?


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