# Appuru/ apple



## ThomasK

Can I ask some things regarding this word and others of the kind? 

 - is it indeed a word borrowed from English ? 
 - is it typical of Japanese that you can't have consonants next to one another? 
 - is it correct to say that, regarding r/l, there is no phonemic difference and that Japanese has a sound that is more similar to /r/ than to /l/ ?

Thanks !


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## Wishfull

Hi.


> - is it indeed a word borrowed from English ?


Yes. It surely is a word from English.


> - is it typical of Japanese that you can't have consonants next to one another?


Yes and no.
There is a pronunciation rule that when we write double consonants, we have to make a short pause before the double consonants.
For example;
Apuru= a-pu-ru
Appuru=a-(short pause)-pu-ru
nippon=ni-(short pause)-po-n



> - is it correct to say that, regarding r/l, there is no phonemic difference and that Japanese has a sound that is more similar to /r/ than to /l/ ?


Yes and no.
We use only "r" in our writing system using Alphabet (Roman letter).
There is no phonemic difference.
Japanese has a sound that is more similar to /L/ than to /R/.

Hope this helps.


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## Yabanjin

ThomasK said:


> Can I ask some things regarding this word and others of the kind?
> 
> - is it indeed a word borrowed from English ?


Yes, this word comes from English. You need to be a little careful since Japanese also borrowed words from Dutch (biiru for beer), Portuguese (shabon for soap), etc. but the majority are from English.


ThomasK said:


> - is it typical of Japanese that you can't have consonants next to one another?


Yes, that is typical. In fact in the ancient Japanese language there were absolutely no consonants next to one another, but under the influence of Chinese loanwords Japanese gained some cases.


ThomasK said:


> - is it correct to say that, regarding r/l, there is no phonemic difference and that Japanese has a sound that is more similar to /r/ than to /l/ ?


The sound represented in romanized Japanese by "r" is a different sound to any of the sounds represented by r or l in English. See my web page http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/japanese-r.html for a fuller explanation.

All of the "r" and "l" sounds in English words are mapped onto this sound in loanwords like appuru.


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot, great information ! 

I worded my second question clumsily, I am afraid. I meant that *the sequence p-l/ p-r* does not turn up in Japanese (not /pp/) - or at least that is what I thought. 

_In the meantime I am trying to move my tongue to the right position, but it seems quite hard: I cannot 'control' my tongue  that well... ;-)_


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## rukiak

ThomasK said:


> - is it typical of Japanese that you can't have consonants next to one another?


Yes. It is typical.



ThomasK said:


> - is it correct to say that, regarding r/l, there is no phonemic difference and that Japanese has a sound that is more similar to /r/ than to /l/ ?
> Thanks !


There is no phonemic difference between the two consonants as to hearing.
And I've heard a foreigner living in Japan said Japanese r/l sound is more similar to /r/.
On the other hand, we Japanese speak /l/ sound quite easier than /r/ sound when we learn english, and it is usually /r/ sound when we are pointed out an error ,by teachers at school.
i.e. it is difficult for Japanese to speak /r/ sound deliberately, but our normal Japanese conversation seems sound /r/ to foreigners.



ThomasK said:


> Thanks a lot, great information !
> 
> I worded my second question clumsily, I am afraid. I meant that *the sequence p-l/ p-r* does not turn up in Japanese (not /pp/) - or at least that is what I thought.


I have no idea to argue against that point.


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## Wishfull

rukiak said:


> There is no phonemic difference between the two consonants as to hearing.
> And I've heard a foreigner living in Japan said Japanese r/l sound is more similar to /r/.
> On the other hand, we Japanese speak /l/ sound quite easier than /r/ sound when we learn English, and it is usually /r/ sound when we are pointed out an error ,by teachers at school.
> i.e. it is difficult for Japanese to speak /r/ sound deliberately, but our normal Japanese conversation seems sound /r/ to foreigners.



Hello. I want to make sure. The red colored "r" is not typo?


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## rukiak

It isn't typo.
But I just found a bug in my last post.
I should have say that "but our normal Japanese conversation seems sound /r/ to some foreigners" as to the last part.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
Thank you for the information.
I didn't know that.

When I pronounce English, they always say that my "r" sound is terrible.
When I say "I eat rice everyday," they used to laugh, because it becomes "I eat lice everyday" to their ears.

So I thought even when I pronounce Japanese,  my "r/l" sound  is more like "l" sound to their ears.


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## YangMuye

Japanese is not exactly a /r/ or /l/. It's free variant among ɾ, l, ɺ, ɹ.

English r in RP or GA is always a round approximant [ɹʷ], for people with a similar accent, /l/ the a better approximation than /ɹʷ/.

I'm interested in how do natives pronounce long voiced consonants.
bed ベッド be*dd*o
It seams that, someone simply pronounce a voiceless one instead: beddo=>betto.


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