# The proof of the pudding is in the eating



## Luna Gioconda

Hoi!

How can I translate *The proof of the pudding is in the eating* in Dutch?

The context is an invitation to try a wonderful experience.


Thank you very much!

Luna


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## Brownpaperbag

Hi

I think "de praktijk zal het leren".

It sounds better in English though!

Brown


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## Greetd

I don't agree, that saying has a different meaning (it's more like "practise makes perfect"). I don't know if there's a Dutch equivalent for this saying, I don't think so, but if there is I'm afraid I don't know it


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## jacquesvd

Greetd said:


> I don't agree, that saying has a different meaning (it's more like "practise makes perfect"). I don't know if there's a Dutch equivalent for this saying, I don't think so, but if there is I'm afraid I don't know it


 
the more common translation is "de praktijk zal het uitwijzen"


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## killerbees

jacquesvd said:


> the more common translation is "de praktijk zal het uitwijzen"



When you put it this way, it actually sounds like it fits perfectly.


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## Greetd

I really think it means something different, and I have a strong suspicion that there is no Dutch equivalent, but oh well, who listens to native speakers these days


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## killerbees

I'm listening  and I certainly don't expect a perfect match. Does the Dutch expression imply that you have to try things to judge them? If it doesn't, then we're back at square one (and probably just have to translate it sans idiom).


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## Greetd

It doesn't  From what I gather, it has two possible meanings; it means something like "if you do it, you'll learn how to", which is said about things like learning how to cook, or learning how to play an instrument. It is also used with the meaning "we can't exactly predict this or that, but we'll figure it out as we go along"; for example, when organizing an event, the organizer could say, "We've booked a venue that can host events of up to 500 people. If this will be big enough, we don't know, but 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen'." The latter is the more commonly used meaning, I think.

Maybe you could use something like "dit wil je niet missen" in your translation?


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## jacquesvd

Greetd said:


> I really think it means something different, and I have a strong suspicion that there is no Dutch equivalent, but oh well, who listens to native speakers these days


 
Well, I am a native speaker and since my youth the common translation has been 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen' 

I do believe it covers the meaning because "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" means that only the eating will tell you if the pudding is good and so will only 'practice' tell you that your theory works. There is therefore an absolute analogy with 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen"

I concur with you that 'de praktijk zal het leren' is slightly different because here one supposes that the practice will not only tell you if your hypothesis stands but practice will also teach you something.

In the English expression the eating will tell you if the pudding is good or not but will not teach you in anyway whatsoever how to make a better pudding.


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## Greetd

jacquesvd said:


> I do believe it covers the meaning because "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" means that only the eating will tell you if the pudding is good and so will only 'practice' tell you that your theory works. There is therefore an absolute analogy with 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen"


Except that "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is used when you invite someone to a wonderful experience, they are hesitant, and you say, "you'll see it's fantastic, just believe me". That still means something wholly different than someone saying "practice will tell me if my estimates or theories were right".

Another big difference: the saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is said by someone who wants to convince someone to do something, he wants to convince that person that the experience is worth doing.
The saying "de praktijk zal het leren/uitwijzen" is said by someone who wants to do something himself, in order to see if his own theory was right.
So the perspectives don't match.


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## Suehil

In this particular context 'the proof of the pudding...' is used as an invitation, but normally it is not.  I would go as far as to say that this is a slightly unusual use of the phrase.  
Usually it means exactly what jacquesvd says, only by eating the pudding will you know if it is any good.


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## jacquesvd

Greetd said:


> Except that "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is used when you invite someone to a wonderful experience, they are hesitant, and you say, "you'll see it's fantastic, just believe me". That still means something wholly different than someone saying "practice will tell me if my estimates or theories were right".
> 
> Another big difference: the saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is said by someone who wants to convince someone to do something, he wants to convince that person that the experience is worth doing.
> The saying "de praktijk zal het leren/uitwijzen" is said by someone who wants to do something himself, in order to see if his own theory was right.
> So the perspectives don't match.


 
I don't agree: I'm not excluding that you could use the saying in the way you describe but it is not its normal usage. I have worked for 42 years in a US company and heard engineers say after they repaired a piece of equipment and were immediately lauded for it: just wait: 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' exactly meaning what 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen' also means.


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## killerbees

Suehil said:


> In this particular context 'the proof of the  pudding...' is used as an invitation, but normally it is not.  I would  go as far as to say that this is a slightly unusual use of the phrase.
> Usually it means exactly what jacquesvd says, only by eating the pudding  will you know if it is any good.


 
 I think this is really the heart of the argument. Obviously, as I am not  a native speaker, I am no Dutch idioms expert, but _de praktijk zal  het uitwijzen _seems to match the English idiom fairly well. However,  based on the provided context, I think that _the proof of the pudding  is in the eating_ just doesn't fit here, at least not without some loss  of its original nuance. 

Couldn't you just say, "_Dit zal je toch verassend leuk vinden!_"  or, "_Dit wil je niet missen!" _as Greetd said? (Feel free to delete that _toch_, though. I  still find modal particles somewhat problematic )

Edit: PS -- Maybe even "_Je moet het wel proberen, hoor!"_


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## jacquesvd

killerbees said:


> I think this is really the heart of the argument. Obviously, as I am not a native speaker, I am no Dutch idioms expert, but _de praktijk zal het uitwijzen _seems to match the English idiom fairly well. However, based on the provided context, I think that _the proof of the pudding is in the eating_ just doesn't fit here, at least without some loss of its original nuance.
> 
> Couldn't you just say, "_Dit zal je toch verassend leuk vinden!_" or, "_Dit wil je niet missen!" _as Greetd said? (Feel free to delete that _toch_, though. I still find modal particles somewhat problematic )
> 
> Edit: PS -- Maybe even "_Je moet het wel proberen, hoor!"_


 
I concentrated on the translation of the normal meaning of "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" which really is 'de praktijk zal het uitwijzen' but I concur that the English idiom probably doesn't very well fit Luna's intention. Greetd's suggestions to translate Luna's original _intention_ are very much ok. There are probably many more possibilities but I don't immediately see one that could classify as a standing idiom. 

"Kom (mee) en laat je heerlijk verrassen" or  "Probeer met ons een wonderbaarlijke verrassing" etc could be other possibilities, but surely no better than Greetd's suggestions. However, in all these suggestions, it seems the invitor has tested the 'surprise' the invitee is supposed to discover.


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## Greetd

Ooh now I understand! I didn't realize that the meaning Luna gave was not the usual meaning of the saying, so my apologies  It's probably indeed better then to try an alternative translation.


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## jacquesvd

Greetd said:


> Ooh now I understand! I didn't realize that the meaning Luna gave was not the usual meaning of the saying, so my apologies  It's probably indeed better then to try an alternative translation.


 
No need to apologise, there's always the risk that something escapes you. In this case I was so concentrated on the normal translation for this standing idiom that I had completely forgotten about Luna's intention, which you had very well noticed!


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## Luna Gioconda

Hi Brown, Greets, Jacquesvd, Killerbees and Suehil! 

Originally I had in my mind to translate the italian equivalent of "The proof of the pudding..", which is: "_Provare per credere_" ('trying for believing'??), 
but - _ahimè - _the "equivalent" expression in Dutch is all about practice and theory! 

Of course, Greetd's observations and suggestions are all right.
Nevertheless, for the very specific context we had to choose another expression.

All the same: thank you very much!


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## jacquesvd

Luna Gioconda said:


> Hi Brown, Greets, Jacquesvd, Killerbees and Suehil!
> 
> Originally I had in my mind to translate the italian equivalent of "The proof of the pudding..", which is: "_Provare per credere_" ('trying for believing'??),
> but - _ahimè - _the "equivalent" expression in dutch is all about practice and theory!
> 
> Of course, Greetd's observations and suggestions are all right.
> Nevertheless, for the very specific context we had to choose another expression.
> 
> All the same: thank you very much!


 
We, of course, concentrated on 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' but "provare per credere" would be something like 'just try and you'll see' which in Dutch would be 'eerst doen en dan geloven'


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