# была девочка / девочкой



## antobbo

Hi guys, I'm a bit confused about cases, specifically what comes after the verb to be. Here is an example:
Можно сказать, что эта Баба - Яга была ещѐ девочкой (which I by the way translated with "so we can say that this Baba Yaga was still a girl").
Why девочкой and not девочкa? What case is девочкой?
thanks


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## Loafer

Кем? Чем? - творительный падеж


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## Maroseika

Similar question has been discussed recently: 
*Был скучным / скучный*

However in this case I think both variants are almost equal. Maybe Nominative is a bit more expressive.


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## Sobakus

Try this forum search query: "nominative instrumental" without the quotes.


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## antobbo

Very interesting reading actually, thanks for the link to that post. Clear now. It's funny thought how strange it feels to have instrumental as a predicate, nominative feels way more natural !


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## Rosett

'Девочка' in the given case would refer rather to virginity, than to her age.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> 'Девочка' in the given case would refer rather to virginity, than to her age.


_"Для настоящей Бабы-Яги это, конечно, не возраст! Можно сказать, что эта Баба-Яга была еще девочкой."_

Even in the absence of the previous sentence, reading this as "One could say Baba Yaga was still a virgin" is equal to saying "One could say Baba Yaga was pregnant". You're of course free to interpret it this way, but for most people virginity, just like pregnancy, is an objective state that doesn't lend itself to subjective evaluation.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> _"Для настоящей Бабы-Яги это, конечно, не возраст! Можно сказать, что эта Баба-Яга была еще девочкой."_
> 
> Even in the absence of the previous sentence, reading this as "One could say Baba Yaga was still a virgin" is equal to saying "One could say Baba Yaga was pregnant". You're of course free to interpret it this way, but for most people virginity, just like pregnancy, is an objective state that doesn't lend itself to subjective evaluation.


Apparently, you did not have a clue.
Instr. means her age (based on childhood range on a deathless monster scale): "Можно сказать, что эта Баба-Яга была ещѐ девочкой" (OP).
Nom. in the same sentence would rather allege her virginity: Можно сказать, что эта Баба-Яга была ещѐ девочка.


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## Maroseika

I also cannot understand why Nom. must mean virginity even without the context. Of course, it may, but without the context there is no way to what's exactly meant. For me the following differs only stylistically:
Он был еще мальчик (мальчиком) и мало что понимал в жизни.
Он был уже глубокий старик (глубоким стариком) и ничем не интересовался.
Она тогда еще была студентка (студенткой) и не знала, чем будет заниматься в жизни.


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## Rosett

Maroseika said:


> I also cannot understand why Nom. must mean virginity even without the context.


First, it is in the context; second, I didn't say "must mean" - I said "would rather allege."
The rest is based upon a native cultural perception of the said difference.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> Nom. in the same sentence would rather allege her virginity: Можно сказать, что эта Баба-Яга была ещѐ девочка.


Firstly, again, _"Можно сказать, она была девственница"_, just like _"Можно сказать, она была беременна"_ or_ "Можно сказать, она носила очки"_ are logically impossible sentences unless it's some kind of metonymy. 
Secondly, exactly, it's in the context of _"Для настоящей Бабы-Яги это, конечно, не возраст!"_, which explicitly disambiguates the meaning.
And thirdly, a fairy-tale discussing Baba Yaga's virginity? Really?..


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Firstly, again, _"Можно сказать, она была девственница"_, just like _"Можно сказать, она была беременна"_ or_ "Можно сказать, она носила очки"_ are logically impossible sentences unless it's some kind of metonymy.
> Secondly, exactly, it's in the context of _"Для настоящей Бабы-Яги это, конечно, не возраст!"_, which explicitly disambiguates the meaning.
> And thirdly, a fairy-tale discussing Baba Yaga's virginity? Really?..


Sobakus, you always twist things around. Your 1st is totally irrelevant.
And, yes, your 2nd and 3rd is exactly why you can't really say девочкa in the OP sentence. Otherwise, you could be immediately accused of ambiguity.


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## rusita preciosa

Rosett said:


> 'Девочка' in the given case would refer rather to virginity, than to her age.


Sorry, but I'm with the others on that one. It would never ever in a million years cross my mind that the statement had to do with virginity. I interpret it was a reference to her age only.


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## Rosett

rusita preciosa said:


> Sorry, but I'm with the others on that one. It would never ever in a million years cross my mind that the statement had to do with virginity. I interpret it was a reference to her age only.


Such use of 'девочка' (_она была_+Nom.) regardless of age may be something useful to learn in order to avoid misunderstanding in certain conversations. Ballots do not count, you know.

*2.Деревня(Алеша) - Bl-lit*
5.175.196.80/l-a-glazkin--village.html
_*Она была девочка*_, и у нее, конечно, ничего такого не было. Он был рад, что она молчала. Ему было не до этого, у него дрожали губы. Он вообще мало ...

*Свадебные традиции горного Дагестана :: NoNaMe*
nnm.me › ... › Инетная Всячина › Разное › на индексе
Sep 24, 2013 - ... придется ногу резать, чтобы доказать родственникам что _*она была девочка*_, вынести платок с кровью.....


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## Maroseika

I'm afraid your first example is irrelevant, as it refers to the fact she was a girl and therefore had no penis. This shows how easily misunderstanding may occur.
Anyway, there is no doubt, even without literary examples, that such meaning of the word девочка exists in the language. But in the given context it's just inconceivable.


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## Sobakus

Maroseika said:


> Anyway, there is no doubt, even without literary examples, that such meaning of the word девочка exists in the language. But in the given context it's just inconceivable.


And, to make it clear, isn't tied to the Nominative or any other case.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> And, to make it clear, isn't tied to the Nominative or any other case.


The said meaning can be found only in Nom.

*Материнство > Невеста с животом*
forum.materinstvo.ru › ... › Образ жизни беременной
Oct 10, 2008
... рассказывали, шутки, игры и прочий искрометный юмор происходит в духе, как если бы _*невеста была девочка*_. Зато никакого позора.


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## Rosett

Maroseika said:


> ... such meaning of the word девочка exists in the language. But in the given context it's just inconceivable.


It is not conceivable more than Баба-Яга herself.  But whether you admit or deny that Баба-Яга exists, her virginity may be questioned or challenged at any age in play.
With regards to a real female human person, the term may be applicable to her at any age, too.


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