# 年も同じなら大きさも大てい同じ



## favq

I have a doubt about this excerpt from 蛙のゴム靴 by Kenji Miyazawa:



> 三疋は年も同じなら大きさも大てい同じ、どれも負けず劣らず生意気で、いたずらものでした。



What is "年も同じなら"? I imagine that the whole sentence means more or less something like: "The three of them had the same age and about the same size, and were equally impertinent and mischievous". But I'm having trouble understanding why there is a "なら" in "年も同じなら". Isn't "なら" a conditional?

Thank you in advance.


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## 810senior

I guess you are correct about the translation.
This is surely a set phrase portrayed as AもBなら（ば）, CもDだ that actually points at the coexistence of the two things.

For example,
金*もなければ*、帰れるお家もない(=金もないし、帰れるお家もない) _I have no money and nowhere to come back._
仕事が大事*なら*、家事も大事だ (=仕事と家事どっちも大事だ) _Working is important, as is housekeeping._


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## DaylightDelight

It's somewhat dated usage.  AならB can mean A, and also B.
You could think of this construction as "If you can say A, then you can also say B."


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## SoLaTiDoberman

AがC*なら*、BもCだ 
(Aがわがままなら、Bもわがままだ） 
=Both A and B are C. 
 (Originally, if we decide that A is C, then we should say B is also C.)

AがA*なら*、BもBだ 
(山田が山田なら、鈴木も鈴木だ）　
=They are both so wrong/weird/extreme.
(Originally, if we decide that A is wrong/weird/extreme, we also should decide that B is wrong/weird/extreme.)

These are set phrases.


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## frequency

favq said:


> "なら" in "年も同じなら". Isn't "なら" a conditional?


It is neither conditional nor hypothesis. なら in this usage can work like で.

I think this could be a bit old usage.


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## ktdd

Yeah I found this grammar point in 日本語総まとめN2文法（「日本語能力試験」対策） by 佐々木仁子、松本紀子:

彼は勉強*も*できれ*ば*スポーツ*も*できる。（＝勉強もできるし、スポーツもできる）
私は歌*も*下手*なら*ダンス*も*下手だ。（＝歌も下手だし、ダンスも下手だ）

N1*も*V*ば*N2*も*Vる
N1*も*Aけれ*ば*N2*も*Aい
N1*も*Na*なら*N2*も*Naだ
N1*も*N*なら*N2*も*Nだ

And in どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型辞典 by 友松悦子、宮本淳、和栗雅子:

も～ば、～も 【～も～し～も both…and…】2級
①あしたは数学の試験もあればレポートも提出しなければならないので、今晩は寝られそうもない。
②あの人は性格もよければ頭もよさそうです。
......
(接続) Nも　＋Vば／イAければ／ナAなら／Nなら　＋Nも
１）前の事柄と同じ方向の事柄を加える（プラスとプラス、マイナスとマイナス）。
２） ⑥⑦のように、同類のものや対立するものを並べて両方ある、という言い方もある。

But I've never seen it used outside a grammar book. Probably outdated as others have commented.


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## 810senior

810senior said:


> For example,
> 金*もなければ*、帰れるお家もない(=金もないし、帰れるお家もない) _I have no money and nowhere to come back._
> 仕事*も大事なら*、家事も大事だ (=仕事と家事どっちも大事だ) _Working is important, as is housekeeping._


Just a small blunder but I've got to amend it: 仕事が大事なら→仕事も大事なら.



ktdd said:


> But I've never seen it used outside a grammar book. Probably outdated as others have commented.


Though this usage sounds somewhat out-of-date but I guess it is not completely archaic.
Seems that it is rather more frequently used in printings, regardless of fictions and non-fictions, like some instances confirmed from Google books search.

Of course, preferably we rather say もないし、もない(or もなくて、もない etc.) in spoken language instead of them above.


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## DaylightDelight

810senior said:


> Though this usage sounds somewhat out-of-date but I guess it is not completely archaic.


Agreed.  It sounds to me somewhat dated, literary, or dramatic.  I wouldn't use it in casual conversation except in a joke or cliche. But it would sound pretty normal in written language.


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## favq

Thank you all. It was very helpful.


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## ktdd

810senior said:


> Though this usage sounds somewhat out-of-date but I guess it is not completely archaic.
> Seems that it is rather more frequently used in printings, regardless of fictions and non-fictions, like some instances confirmed from Google books search.





DaylightDelight said:


> Agreed. It sounds to me somewhat dated, literary, or dramatic. I wouldn't use it in casual conversation except in a joke or cliche. But it would sound pretty normal in written language.


You're right! Looks like it's just that I wasn't paying attention. Spotted it twice today reading Harry Potter, lol.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> AがC*なら*、BもCだ
> (Aがわがままなら、Bもわがままだ）
> =Both A and B are C.
> (Originally, if we decide that A is C, then we should say B is also C.)
> 
> AがA*なら*、BもBだ
> (山田が山田なら、鈴木も鈴木だ）
> =They are both so wrong/weird/extreme.
> (Originally, if we decide that A is wrong/weird/extreme, we also should decide that B is wrong/weird/extreme.)
> 
> These are set phrases.


edit)
AもC*なら*、BもCだ
(Aもわがままなら、Bもわがままだ）
=Both A and B are C.
 (Originally, if we decide that A is C, then we should say B is also C.)←delete

AもA*なら*、BもBだ
(山田も山田なら、鈴木も鈴木だ）　
=They are both so wrong/weird/extreme.
(Originally, if we decide that A is wrong/weird/extreme, we also should decide that B is wrong/weird/extreme.)←delete

These are set phrases


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