# Endonyms for Greek (ελληνικά, ρωμαίικα and γραικικά)



## MPA

Hello, I just crossed by a text where the author said there are three endonyms for Greek: _ελληνικά_, _ρωμαίικα_ and _γραικικά_. I can understand this words' origins, but it was quite surprising the terms _ρωμαίικα_ and _γραικικά_ being used for Greek language. Do Greeks use them?


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## Perseas

When we say _ρωμαίικα_ we understand_ ελληνικά_, this is true! Also, when we say _Ρωμιοί _(from_ Ρωμαίοι_), we understand _Έλληνες_.
_Ρωμαίοι_ was used in Byzantium to initially characterise all the inhabitants of the empire and then the Greek-speaking population. _Ρωμιοί _and _ρωμαίικα_ are used even today, not very often though.
_Γραικοί_ is an ancient term (used by Aristoteles, Appolodoros etc). _Γραικοί_ was used in Byzantium and during the Ottoman occupation, but was not so popular as _Ρωμαίοι_. After the revolution (1821-30) this term (_Γραικοί_) was displaced by the term _Έλληνες_.


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## Scholiast

Perseas said:


> Appolodoros


!
Shame upon you, Perseas! Ἀ*π*ο*λλ*όδωρος, surely. 
Σ


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## Perseas

Scholiast said:


> !
> Shame upon you, Perseas! Ἀ*π*ο*λλ*όδωρος, surely.
> Σ


I stand corrected, okay! In Greek though I would have written Ἀπολλόδωρος, for sure.


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## MPA

Perseas said:


> When we say _ρωμαίικα_ we understand_ ελληνικά_, this is true! Also, when we say _Ρωμιοί _(from_ Ρωμαίοι_), we understand _Έλληνες_.
> _Ρωμαίοι_ was used in Byzantium to initially characterise all the inhabitants of the empire and then the Greek-speaking population. _Ρωμιοί _and _ρωμαίικα_ are used even today, not very often though.
> _Γραικοί_ is an ancient term (used by Aristoteles, Appolodoros etc). _Γραικοί_ was used in Byzantium and during the Ottoman occupation, but was not so popular as _Ρωμαίοι_. After the revolution (1821-30) this term (_Γραικοί_) was displaced by the term _Έλληνες_.


Thank you for informations. I thought Greeks always used _Έλληνες_ to themselves, and I expected _γραικικά_/_Γραικοί_ as being a Latin influence, but apparently _Graecia_ is of Roman in... Greek influence.


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## LoukasX

the most recent use of 'γραικοι' I remember is from an song for Αθανασιος Διακος <<εγω γραικος γεννηθηκα, γραικος και θα παιθανω>>


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## fdb

The name "Hellenes" is used to mean “pagans” in the New Testament, and was consequently abandoned by Greek Christians, who preferred to call themselves “Romans”. The term Hellene was revived by the Greek philosopher Giorgios Gemistos Plethon in the 15th century as part of his endeavour to replace Christianity by the “Religion of the Hellenes”. It was revived a second time by the Greek nationalist movement in the 19th century.


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## apmoy70

fdb said:


> The name "Hellenes" is used to mean “pagans” in the New Testament, and was consequently abandoned by Greek Christians, who preferred to call themselves “Romans”. The term Hellene was revived by the Greek philosopher Giorgios Gemistos Plethon in the 15th century as part of his endeavour to replace Christianity by the “Religion of the Hellenes”. It was revived a second time by the Greek nationalist movement in the 19th century.


You're partly right professor, it's true that Christian Greeks initially detested the name Hellene, as it was identified with paganism and «ἔξωθεν σοφία» (outside wisdom, the ancient Greek pagan literature and philosophy), but the turning point is the Fall of Consantinople to the Crusaders of the Fourth Crusade (1204). The struggle for 57 years to regain the City gave rise to a primature Greek nationalism.
The second Emperor of Nicaea (one of the successor Greek-speaking states following the Latin/Frankish occupation of Constantinople), John III Ducas Vatatzes (d. 1254), writes in a letter of reply in 1233, to Pope Gregory IX who declared Jean de Brienne as the legitimate Latin emperor of Constantinople, about the wisdom that rains upon his nation and that the throne of Constantine the Great is attached to it:
«Μετὰ τῆς σοφίας εἶναι προσκεκληρωμένη εὶς _τὸ γένος ἡμῶν_ παρὰ τοῦ Μεγάλου Κωνσταντίνου καὶ ἡ βασιλεία».

He also stresses that the transfer of the imperial authority from Rome to Constantinople was national and not geographic, and therefore did not belong to the Latins occupying Constantinople:
«Τὶς ἀγνοεῖ ὅτι καὶ ὁ κλῆρος τῆς διαδοχῆς ἐκείνου _εἰς τὸ ἡμέτερον διέβη γένος_ καὶ ὅτι ἑμεῖς εἴμεθα οἱ τούτου κληρονόμοι καὶ διάδοχοι;»

Ηe argues that Constantine's heritage was passed on to the Hellenes for a thousand years, and they alone were its inheritors and successors:
«Τὰ δικαιώματα ἡμῶν ἐπὶ τῆς ἀρχῆς καὶ τοῦ Κράτους τῆς Κωνσταντινουπόλεως ὅπερ απὸ τοῦ Μεγάλου Κωνσταντίνου _ἐπὶ χιλιετηρίδα παραταθέν ἔφθασεν ἄχρις ἡμῶν_. Οἱ γενᾶρχαι τῆς βασιλείας μου, οἱ ἀπό τοῦ γένους των Δουκῶν καὶ Κομνηνῶν, ἵνα μὴ τοὐς λέγω, τούς _ἀπό γενῶν Ἑλληνικῶν ἄρξαντας_».

No-one questions the authenticity of the letter, the famous French Byzantinist Venance Grumel accepts it as genuine (V. Grumel, L' authenticité de la lettre de Jean Vatatzes, empereur de Nicée, au pape Gregoire IX, EO 29 (1930) 450-458).
His son, Theodore II Laskaris (d. 1258) was even more...nationalistic, as he called Nicaea «ἑλληνίς ἐπικράτεια» and «Ἐλληνικόν» (κράτος is omitted).
One could argue therefore that the sense of belonging to a *Natio Græcorum* is a little bit older than the 15th c.


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## sotos

MPA said:


> the terms _ρωμαίικα_ and _γραικικά_ being used for Greek language. Do Greeks use them?


Not any more. You find these terms in older texts, usually before 19th century.


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## Christo Tamarin

*Ρωμιός Αγάπησε Ρωμιά *(.. ρωμιά και Θεσσαλονικιά .. ρωμιά και Θεσσαλονικιά .. ρωμιός αγάπησε ρωμιά ..)

Μουσική: Γιώργος Ζαμπέτας
Στίχοι: Ξενοφώντας Φιλέρης


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## fdb

apmoy70 said:


> You're partly right professor, it's true that Christian Greeks initially detested the name Hellene, as it was identified with paganism and «ἔξωθεν σοφία» (outside wisdom, the ancient Greek pagan literature and philosophy), but the turning point is the Fall of Consantinople to the Crusaders of the Fourth Crusade (1204). The struggle for 57 years to regain the City gave rise to a primature Greek nationalism.
> The second Emperor of Nicaea (one of the successor Greek-speaking states following the Latin/Frankish occupation of Constantinople), John III Ducas Vatatzes (d. 1254), writes in a letter of reply in 1233, to Pope Gregory IX who declared Jean de Brienne as the legitimate Latin emperor of Constantinople, about the wisdom that rains upon his nation and that the throne of Constantine the Great is attached to it:
> «Μετὰ τῆς σοφίας εἶναι προσκεκληρωμένη εὶς _τὸ γένος ἡμῶν_ παρὰ τοῦ Μεγάλου Κωνσταντίνου καὶ ἡ βασιλεία».
> 
> He also stresses that the transfer of the imperial authority from Rome to Constantinople was national and not geographic, and therefore did not belong to the Latins occupying Constantinople:
> «Τὶς ἀγνοεῖ ὅτι καὶ ὁ κλῆρος τῆς διαδοχῆς ἐκείνου _εἰς τὸ ἡμέτερον διέβη γένος_ καὶ ὅτι ἑμεῖς εἴμεθα οἱ τούτου κληρονόμοι καὶ διάδοχοι;»
> 
> Ηe argues that Constantine's heritage was passed on to the Hellenes for a thousand years, and they alone were its inheritors and successors:
> «Τὰ δικαιώματα ἡμῶν ἐπὶ τῆς ἀρχῆς καὶ τοῦ Κράτους τῆς Κωνσταντινουπόλεως ὅπερ απὸ τοῦ Μεγάλου Κωνσταντίνου _ἐπὶ χιλιετηρίδα παραταθέν ἔφθασεν ἄχρις ἡμῶν_. Οἱ γενᾶρχαι τῆς βασιλείας μου, οἱ ἀπό τοῦ γένους των Δουκῶν καὶ Κομνηνῶν, ἵνα μὴ τοὐς λέγω, τούς _ἀπό γενῶν Ἑλληνικῶν ἄρξαντας_».
> 
> No-one questions the authenticity of the letter, the famous French Byzantinist Venance Grumel accepts it as genuine (V. Grumel, L' authenticité de la lettre de Jean Vatatzes, empereur de Nicée, au pape Gregoire IX, EO 29 (1930) 450-458).
> His son, Theodore II Laskaris (d. 1258) was even more...nationalistic, as he called Nicaea «ἑλληνίς ἐπικράτεια» and «Ἐλληνικόν» (κράτος is omitted).
> One could argue therefore that the sense of belonging to a *Natio Græcorum* is a little bit older than the 15th c.



Thank you. Very enlightening.


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