# School nomenclature



## Sheikh_14

Gunaydın Arkadaşlar,
In this thread, I am interested to know how in Türkçe you differentiate  between a general modern school defined by simpletons as purveyors of  'Western Education' as opposed to religious schools also known as the  Imam Hatip schools. In other words what are the terms you use for both  forms of education. Any assistance here would be much appreciated here,  Teşekkurler and for the Ottoman Turkish sympathisers an open armed  Mutteşekirram .


----------



## dilandlanguage

Actually in all types of schools   -primary -high-university-    ,we have "the western education system" 
In imam-hatip schools, they have some extra religious lessons like (Kuran,tefsir,hadis,hitabet,arapça(arabic ) etc...)
they are not the only sort of highscools types.There are some other types of highschools.
Anadolu lisesi
Fen lisesi
Meslek lisesi
Teknik lise
Öğretmen lisesi
Sağlık lisesi


----------



## Sheikh_14

Good enumeration of the types of academic institutions you have in Turkey but I was seeking to know the different nomenclature you have in place. For instance what is the difference between the following Okul, Lisesi, Mektap and madresah (did the last one ever exist prior to Ataturk's reforms? For instance üniversitesi is distinctly the Turkish equivelent of University.


----------



## dilandlanguage

-okul- and -lise- are  the words we got from french language.
prior to our republic we used to call primary schools and high schools as  -mektep- or -mahalle mektebi-   and    university as  -medrese-


----------



## Sheikh_14

Still a few queries do surface:
a) Are okul and Lise used interchangeably or in a set manner as they are in French for instance okul which I assume derives from e'cole is used for a primary school amongst other things but Lycee is used mainly if not solely for a secondary school. In turkish I feel perhaps the distinction is not present and they are simply exchanged.
b) Mektap's usage makes absolute sense and continues to be used in that manner in formal Urdu.
c) Not entirely satisfied with your explanation for medrese as a university in the pre-rebublic era for in this rest of the world it is perceived to be either an alternative to a general school or one of a religious breed. A wikipedia entry vouches for this stance stating explicitly that during the pre-republic period medreses were  "Islamic Theology Schools, called Madrasa" whose purpose was to produce a future line of clerics etc. In 1913 the _Medresetü-l Himmeti ve Hutaba_ (Schools for Education of Islamic Clerics) and _Medresetü-l Vaizin_ (Schools for Preachers) were combined to form the tangible origins of today's Imam Hatip high schools" The extract can be read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/İmam_Hatip_school. 
Therefore, I doubt Medresehs were ever Universities, for if Ottoman Turkish ever adopted a Perso-Arabic name for the type of institution it would be Jami'ah and not Medrese.


----------



## Black4blue

*Okul* is a general word for _all types of schools_. It comes from _"oku(mak)"_. The French loanword for _école_ is _"ekol"_.

*Lise* is _high school_. It comes after secondary school, before university.

*Mektep* is -now- used as an old word for school. I don't think it points out a specific school stage.

As far as I know, *medrese*s were university-stage schools. *Rüştiye*s were middle/secondary schools and *idadi*s were high schools. If what you called _Jami'ah_ is what we call _camia_, we don't use it for a school stage. It means _community_ in Turkish usage.


----------



## Sheikh_14

Black4blue said:


> *Okul* is a general word for _all types of schools_. It comes from _"oku(mak)"_. The French loanword for _école_ is _"ekol"_. *In other words distinctly not a foreign import as previously suggested.*
> 
> *Lise* is _high school_. It comes after secondary school, before university. *Very much in line with its modern French usage and thence exactly as stated by dil.*
> 
> *Mektep* is -now- used as an old word for school. I don't think it points out a specific school stage. *Long out of contention and further* *sealed for receipt by yourself.*
> 
> As far as I know, *medrese*s were university-stage schools. *Rüştiye*s were middle/secondary schools and *idadi*s were high schools. *Good case by case eluciadation of Ottoman nomenclature for academic institutions. Still dumbfounded as to why Medreses adopted suh a specialized role in Ottoman terminology when in fact it is a generic term elsewhere, perhaps other local and foreign variants were in large supply. **The extract I have pasted earlier states that medreses were the equivalent of modern day Imam Hatip high schools thus they may be just a step below university i.e. sixth form-esque. Lets see what other members have to say.*
> 
> If what you called _Jami'ah_ is what we call _camia_, we don't use it for a school stage. It means _community_ in Turkish usage. *For learners this article may prove fruitful http://en.fgulen.com/press-room/170...t-a-religious-community-or-a-social-community. Whilst Jami'ah, Jama'at and Jam'iiyat have the same root there definitions' are most certainly not the same. The Camia you are referring to seems to mean an association which is perfectly in line with the definition of Jamii'at and not Jami'ah for the latter distinctly means University in both Arabic, Urdu and perhaps Persian as well.*




Minor niggles aside your contributions have been most helpful and for that Mütteşekkiram. Btw does Medrese hold any religious connotations in Modern Day Turkish as it does abroad?


----------



## dilandlanguage

Yes,It does.


----------



## Sheikh_14

Wonderful, what is the immediate denotation that a modern day Turk gathers from hearing the word medrese? Is it at all used and if so for a religious institution?


----------



## Rallino

I don't think I've ever heard the word "medrese" other than in history classes. It doesn't have any denotation in my mind. It's almost like a foreign word.


----------



## dilandlanguage

I think  mostly same as a westener immediate thought will be a religious school.

Let's say when anyone reads an article about Obama's childhood in Indonesia ,medrese (madrasa) will be thought as a religious,outdated,poor school.

But conservative people use medrese in a positive meaning like an ideal university.


----------

