# Claude = masculine/feminine?



## jrszalay

Hi,

I understand Claude is a Christian name, but is it masculine or feminine?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Szalay


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## Södertjej

Es un nombre francés y en Francia se usa tanto para hombres como para mujeres. ¿Para qué países te refieres en cuanto a su uso?


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## spodulike

Claud is a very old-fashioned (male) name in English. A female friend of mine called Claudia was sometimes called "Claude" as an abbreviation by her friends.

Really these days I think only French people are called Claude.


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## jrszalay

Södertjej said:


> Es un nombre francés y en Francia se usa tanto para hombres como para mujeres. ¿Para qué países te refieres en cuanto a su uso?



Dear Söedrtjej,

Muchas gracias. Se trata del autor(a) de un libro (Claude S. George, Jr.), que es profesor de la University of North Carolina, de lo cual deduzco que, probablemente, es estadunidense. Basado en lo que me contesta Spodulike, supondré que es masculino.

Sólo necesito saberlo para poder referirme a Claude S. George como "el autor" o "la autora" al comentarlo en una tesis que estory escribiendo.

Saludos,
Szalay


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## spodulike

Well it´s easy. He is "Jr." This stands for "Junior"
We don´t say this in Britain but in the USA it is very common to give a son exactly the same name as his father.

"George Bush"
"George W. Bush"

The more recent president changed from calling himself George Bush Junior because it didn´t sound good for a president.

So Claude George must be a man who has the same name as his father!


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## jrszalay

spodulike said:


> Claud is a very old-fashioned (male) name in English. A female friend of mine called Claudia was sometimes called "Claude" as an abbreviation by her friends.
> 
> Really these days I think only French people are called Claude.



Dear Spodulike,

Gracias. I have a doubt: did you really mean "Claud" (i. e., without "e" at the end)? 

Szalay


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## spodulike

jrszalay said:


> Dear Spodulike,
> 
> Gracias. I have a doubt: did you really mean "Claud" (i. e., without "e" at the end)?
> 
> Szalay


 
Yes: Let me introduce you to one! http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~bramblet/


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## gengo

spodulike said:


> "George Bush"
> "George W. Bush"
> 
> The more recent president changed from calling himself George Bush Junior because it didn´t sound good for a president.



Our former president was not a junior, since he did not share the exact same name with his father.  The elder is named George Hubert Walker Bush, and the younger is named George Walker Bush.


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## spodulike

gengo said:


> Our former president was not a junior, since he did not share the exact same name with his father. The elder is named George Hubert Walker Bush, and the younger is named George Walker Bush.


 
Okay. But now I am curious.  Around the house, wouldn´t his mother have to distinguish between them by calling out "George Junior it´s time for breakfast" etc.?


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## jrszalay

spodulike said:


> Well it´s easy. He is "Jr." This stands for "Junior"
> We don´t say this in Britain but in the USA it is very common to give a son exactly the same name as his father.
> 
> "George Bush"
> "George W. Bush"
> 
> The more recent president changed from calling himself George Bush Junior because it didn´t sound good for a president.
> 
> So Claude George must be a man who has the same name as his father!



Thank you again, spodulike. I understand what you mean. In Spanish we also use "Jr." (abreviation for júnior) for the same purpose, but even though I don't remember a single case of a lady "Jr.", now I ask myself "Jr." in English (and in Spanish) is only for males?

Szalay


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## gengo

spodulike said:


> Okay. But now I am curious.  Around the house, wouldn´t his mother have to distinguish between them by calling out "George Junior it´s time for breakfast" etc.?



I don't know what she called the younger George, but I know many families in which the father and son have the same name (silly practice, in my humble opinion), but none of them uses the word "junior" to refer to the son.  Sometimes they use a nickname, but most often they just deal with the confusion.  My own cousin did this, and I personally distinguish them by calling them Mike and Michael, but in the family they are both called Mike.

Go figure.


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## Idiomático

spodulike said:


> Okay. But now I am curious. Around the house, wouldn´t his mother have to distinguish between them by calling out "George Junior it´s time for breakfast" etc.?


 
You mean you didn't know?  She called her son "W" [Dubya].


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## gengo

Idiomático said:


> You mean you didn't know?  She called her son "W" [Dubya].



Are you sure?  That is his popular nickname, but I'd be very surprised if his own mother calls him that.


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## spodulike

jrszalay said:


> Thank you again, spodulike. I understand what you mean. In Spanish we also use "Jr." (abreviation for júnior) for the same purpose, but even though I don't remember a single case of a lady "Jr.", now I ask myself "Jr." in English (and in Spanish) is only for males?
> 
> Szalay


 
I don´t think women are daft enough to give their daughters the same name as themselves.


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## Idiomático

gengo said:


> Are you sure? That is his popular nickname, but I'd be very surprised if his own mother calls him that.


 
I'm sure.  I heard her call him that on TV.


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## Idiomático

spodulike said:


> I don´t think women are daft enough to give their daughters the same name as themselves.


 
Careful!  Wasn't Queen Elizabeth's mother also an Elizabeth?


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## spodulike

Idiomático said:


> Careful! Wasn't Queen Elizabeth's mother also an Elizabeth?


 
Well I almost spoke something treasonous but I changed my mind 

I suspect the real reason is that "junior" derives from the Latin "juvenis" meaning young man. A young woman in Latin would be "tener mulier" I believe. It´s a long time since I studied Latin so I could be quite wrong.

Anyway we are getting seriously off-topic so I will stop now and say goodnight!


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## jrszalay

spodulike said:


> Well I almost spoke something treasonous but I changed my mind
> 
> I suspect the real reason is that "junior" derives from the Latin "juvenis" meaning young man. A young woman in Latin would be "tener mulier" I believe. It´s a long time since I studied Latin so I could be quite wrong.
> 
> Anyway we are getting seriously off-topic so I will stop now and say goodnight!



Your are almost right, spodulike. Actually, according to an Spanish dictionary, "junior" derives from the Latin "iunor" meaning younger. Good morning!

Szalay


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## Södertjej

spodulike said:


> I don´t think women are daft enough to give their daughters the same name as themselves.


They do but since you take the father's surname you never have the same full name as your mother.


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## aztlaniano

Claude C. George Jr. es, o era, varón, nacido en 1922:
http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/aafa/html/aafa_aarl96-015.html
Efectivamente, es estadounidense, y es negro.

"Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma femenina es sólo Claudette.


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## Södertjej

aztlaniano said:


> "Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma feminina es sólo Claudette.


Pues no, también se usa para mujeres, y aunque quizá ya no sea tan popular en las generaciones más jóvenes, hay señoras llamadas Claude. La mejor amiga de mi madre, sin ir más lejos. Y luego tienes además Claudine, Claudette y todas las variantes que quieras-


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## aztlaniano

Södertjej said:


> Pues no, también se usa para mujeres, y aunque quizá ya no sea tan popular en las generaciones más jóvenes, hay señoras llamadas Claude. La mejor amiga de mi madre, sin ir más lejos. Y luego tienes además Claudine, Claudette y todas las variantes que quieras-


De todas formas, la "e" al final es para que se pronuncie la "d", y no indica que sea nombre femenino necesariamente. En la película Casablanca, por cierto, el papel del capitán Renault lo interpeta el actor Claude Rains.


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## Södertjej

???? Yo no he dicho para qué es es la e ni si denota que sea masculino o femenino (no estamos en el foro de francés). La pregunta original era si Claude es nombre de hombre o mujer y yo he dicho que en Francia se usa para ambos.


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## spodulike

Södertjej said:


> They do but since you take the father's surname you never have the same full name as your mother.


 
Good morning.

Hmm ... Never? My sister married a man with the same surname as herself. But in any case, in the US, women usually adopt the surname of their husband so the daughter could have exactly the same name.

I agree however that both Claud and Claude can be men´s names.


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## aztlaniano

Södertjej said:


> en Francia se usa para ambos.


Puede ser, pero nunca he encontrado una mujer llamada "Claude" en el mundo anglófono, sólo Claudias, Claudettes y Claudines.


spodulike said:


> Really these days I think only French people are called Claude.


The Wagner-loving husband of Phyllida (one of the colleagues of Rumpole of the Bailey), the father of Tristan and Isolde, is named Claude (Erskine-Brown).


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## SuperScuffer

And don't forget the famous lion tamer, who died in tragic circumstances, Claude Balls.


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## Södertjej

aztlaniano said:


> Puede ser, pero nunca he encontrado una mujer llamada "Claude" en el mundo anglófono, sólo Claudias, Claudettes y Claudines.


Yo nunca he dicho que en los países anglófonos se use Claude para mujeres, dije claramente que era así en Francia.


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## spodulike

SuperScuffer said:


> And don't forget the famous lion tamer, who died in tragic circumstances, Claude Balls.


 
Hmm ... 

Note: En inglés la palabra "Claud(e)" se dice <cló-od> lo mismo que "clawed"


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## aztlaniano

Södertjej said:


> era así en Francia.


No lo pongo en duda para nada, ni cuestiono tu amplia y admirable cultura, Södertjej. 
Pero nuestro Claude aquí nació en Atlanta, Georgia, EEUU, así que viene más al caso el uso del nombre por parte de los anglohablantes.


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## Södertjej

aztlaniano said:


> Pero nuestro Claude aquí nació en Atlanta, Georgia, EEUU, así que viene más al caso el uso del nombre por parte de los angloparlantes.


No sé quién es "nuestro Claude", el OP es de México, el nombre originalmente francés, los datos adicionales se dieron después de mi intervención inicial. Creo que el tema ya no da para más.


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## bx2

aztlaniano said:


> "Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma femenina es sólo Claudette.



Hola Aztlaniano. Claude sí parece ser también nombre de mujer. Por ejemplo, la actriz Claude Jade (francesa, nacida en Dijon):

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Jade


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## Arrius

Para las niñas hay también las formas Claudine y Claudie, pero Claude puede utilizarse igualmente para hembras, aunque no me acuerde haber encontrado una mujer de ese nombre fuera de Francia. Se deriva el nombre del emperador romano Claudius que se llamaba así por ser cojo (en latín _claudere_).  Otra razón por pensarlo bien antes de dar este nombre a un niño es que dicho emperador murió envenenado por su mujer, la malvada Agrippina. Todavía se dice en francés_ claudiquer_ por cojear.
http://www.behindthename.com/name/claude


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## Södertjej

También en castellano existe el verbo claudicar, aunque se normalmente con otro significado diferente a cojear. (Sí, las Agripinas suelen ser muy malas)


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## Masood

Arrius said:


> Otra razón por pensarlo bien antes de dar este nombre a un niño es que dicho emperador murió envenenado por su mujer...


Never mind, eh. Every Claud has a silver lining...


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## gengo

Idiomático said:


> I'm sure.  I heard her call him that on TV.



Well, I meant as a child and in private.  I don't doubt that she would refer to him that way in public, since that is how he is commonly referred to and to avoid confusion with her husband.  But what I still don't know is what she called him when he was a boy living at home, which is the situation spodulike and I were discussing.



aztlaniano said:


> "Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma femenina es sólo Claudette.



Isn't Claudine also a feminine version of Claude in French?  And Claudia?  I have know a number of Claudias from France.


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## Arrius

*Claud is a very old-fashioned (male) name in English.* S*podulike*
Agreed, I doubt if there are many (generally with an E at the end) around today amidst the hordes of Waynes and Jasons in Britain. The name, like Cecil, Marmaduke, Montmorency, Algernon and Cuthbert, is sometimes used for humorous effect. In Tommy Handley's WW II radio comedy show ITMA (It's That Man Again) , there were among the variegated British and foreign stereotypes in his comic sketches a pair of effeminate civil servants who were so obsequiously deferential to one another that it took a long time for them to get through a door, with their repeated ultra-polite: "After you Claude", "No, after you Cecil".

*Never mind, eh. Every Claud* has a silver lining... Masood*

A good one, Sir! In fact because of his lameness, Claudius was spared in various palace coups and purges because no one seeking power thought him a danger, and eventually in one such coup, he was dragged forth from behind the curtain where he was hiding as the only surviving heir to the throne and declared emperor, but finally his luck ran out.
*** But ro avoid confusing anybody, please note, as has already been said above, *Claud(e)* is pronounced like *clawed.* *Cloud* is pronounced */klaud/.*


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## gengo

Arrius said:


> Agreed, I doubt if there are many (generally with an E at the end) around today amidst the hordes of Waynes and Jasons in Britain.



Nor among the Jacobs and Brandons in the US.  I would imagine that one reason for the demise of the name is that, at least in American pronunciation, it sounds just like clod, which over here means a dull or stupid person.  It hardly seems fair to burden a child with a name like that.


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## Arrius

To the best of my knowledge we Brits reserve _clod_ for a lump of turf or mud, and use _clot_ as a synonym for thickhead or idiot, neither of which would be confused with Claude in British Received Pronunciation.


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## jrszalay

aztlaniano said:


> Claude C. George Jr. es, o era, varón, nacido en 1922:
> http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/aafa/html/aafa_aarl96-015.html
> Efectivamente, es estadounidense, y es negro.
> 
> "Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma femenina es sólo Claudette.



Muchas gracias, Aztlaniano.

Szalay


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## jrszalay

aztlaniano said:


> Claude C. George Jr. es, o era, varón, nacido en 1922:
> http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/aafa/html/aafa_aarl96-015.html
> Efectivamente, es estadounidense, y es negro.
> 
> "Claude" es un nombre francés, como pone Södertjej, y sólo lo he encontrado como nombre de hombre. Que sepa, la forma femenina es sólo Claudette.



Muchas gracias, aztlaniano, pero el autor del que yo hablo es Claude S. George; no Claude C. George. Anyway, gracias a ti y a los demás "foreros" (participantes del foro), tengo claro que "mi" autor es hombre.

Gracias de nuevo,

Szalay


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