# いいんじゃない? 別に



## Jirachi

Hello. I'm trying to learn japanese. I would be very grateful if you helped me. Well, I was reading a manga and one of the characters said, talking about a suggestion: "いいんじゃない? 別に". Now, the first thing I thought of was: "Isn't it bad? Not really". But it just doesn't make sense. I don't get if the sentece is positive (like "yes, is a good idea") or negative ("nah, this is bad"). Can you help me somehow?

本当にありがとう!


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## Wishfull

Jirachi said:


> Hello. I'm trying to learn japanese. I would be very grateful if you helped me. Well, I was reading a manga and one of the characters said, talking about a suggestion: "いいんじゃない? 別に". Now, the first thing I thought of was: "Isn't it bad? Not really". But it just doesn't make sense. I don't get if the sentece is positive (like "yes, is a good idea") or negative ("nah, this is bad"). Can you help me somehow?
> 
> 本当にありがとう!



・Do whatever you like. I have no comment. I don't have any *particular *comment.

・Do as you like. I don't care.

・*Why not*? It is not something *particularly* important.

・Do whatever you like. I don't have any particular thinking about it.

・Why not? Anyway, it's OK to me whichever it is right or wrong.

・Do as you like. I don't have any particular opinion. It is none of MY business.
Your business is not our business. Your business is your business after all, not mine.

・Do as you like. I don't want to be get involved.

The speaker didn't give a clear affirmative or negative answer.
He/she gave an affirmative answer superficially, and he/she didn't want to participate in the decision making.
*In this kind of expression, what the speaker really has in mind is almost always negative.*


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## akimura

Since _いいんじゃない？別に_ is just a derivative of the single sentence _別にいいんじゃない？_, handling the original as a single sentence may work.  And just a single sentence _Why not_, already suggested by Wishfull, seems to work well as a Japanese translation.

The use of this 助動詞 ない falls under the second definition of 大辞林.  Spoken in rising tone at the part of ない, the idea of the sentence is not about negation but about a question, invitation, suggestion, etc.  So I don't think we need to be too bothered with ない as a negator. 

Even so, I guess the use of this ない could still be explained with an English tag question:
*Step 0* いいんじゃない？別に
*Step 1* 別にいいんじゃない？　(treat as a single sentence)
*Step 2* 別にいいんじゃ + *ない*？　(split to match the structure of the following English tag questinon)
*Step 3* I guess that's all right, is*n't* it? (translate)
[Notice that with this result, the speaker is affirmative, whereas it's not much of the speaker's interest.]

​


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## Flaminius

> The use of this 助動詞 ない falls under the second definition of 大辞林.


 Please do not simply populate posts with Google, Wikipedia or other  links and few or no words of your own. It leaves the questioner no  better off.  If you have found something that you believe is helpful to the  discussion, explain or paraphrase it in your reply and by all means also  offer a link to a specific location.  In so far as possible, posts should be understandable from what appears  in the post itself. The use of links should be to add further value,  explanation or reference.
Flam@mod

So, here the definition:


> [2] 文末にあって、問いかけや勧誘の意を表す。普通、上昇調のイントネーションを伴う。「ないか」の形をとることもある。


Functionally, this ない is detached affirmation.  The speaker agrees with something but they do not do so with much gusto.  It's a more reserved kind of agreement.  Detached affirmation is used when the speaker does not wish to appear intruding someone else's affairs or they simply don't want to take the responsibility.  Either implication is intended, the underlying tone is that it is up to the listener, despite the speaker's opinion just expressed, to ultimately decide whether it is good or not.   Perhaps I am concurring with *Akimura*'s last sentence (assuming "it" is the veracity of the statement):[T]he speaker is affirmative, whereas it's not much of the speaker's interest.​Surprisingly this sense is not given in the dictionary definition, so I think they assumed it is enough to list 問いかけ (translatable variously into enquiry, questioning or asking).  The problem is, however, ない is used in a different type of question from the one expressed by regular interrogative sentences.
A. このケーキを作ったのは田中さん?
B. このケーキを作ったのは田中さんじゃない?
Sentence A simply wants to check facts; whether Tanaka made the cake or not.  In fact, it can be used to reconfirm what has just been said.  To reconfirm a previous このケーキは田中さんが作りました, one may well say Sentence A.  This is impossible with B, which asks the listener whether the speaker's understanding that it was Tanaka is true.  There is an implication that they have reached the judgement by inference (evidence and/or chain of thoughts).  When the fact has been given by 田中さんが作りました, there is no room for inference.

いいんじゃない?　別に is more detached than Sentence B because it is a sentence that the speaker say to themselves, even though it is a question addressed to someone else in form.


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## akimura

Flaminius said:


> Please do not simply populate posts with Google, Wikipedia or other  links and few or no words of your own. It leaves the questioner no  better off.  If you have found something that you believe is helpful to the  discussion, explain or paraphrase it in your reply and by all means also  offer a link to a specific location.  In so far as possible, posts should be understandable from what appears  in the post itself. The use of links should be to add further value,  explanation or reference.
> Flam@mod



Oh, I'm sorry.  It's just that I found somewhere that you did link to yahoo's 大辞泉, that was when I thought it would be a good idea to start following the moderator.

Also, I can't see how more specific I could make the original link.

Also, I thought I used my paraphrasing in this part: "Spoken in rising tone at the part of ない, the idea of the  sentence is not about negation but about a question, invitation,  suggestion, etc."  If it's still not paraphrasing, it's in part because I haven't been careful enough reading the Forum's rules; and in part because my foreign language, English is not good enough yet.

I'll try to improve myself on all of these.


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## Flaminius

Oh oh, you don't have to try to improve anything.  I am to blame here because I wasn't specific enough.  I do recognise that none of the things I wrote in colour apply to your post.  Neither am I against quoting from a specific source.

Please let me rephrase my advice.  If you quote or translate something, set the translated portion off from the rest of the post by [QUOTE] tags or other means.  In the present case, it boils down to wrapping the sentence with two double-quotes.

So many pointless words for so simple request.  I apologise.
Flam


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## Aoyama

But to make things simple (and clear), the translation would be :
"isn't it/that OK ? - Not really"
別に is difficult to translate, it is an "idiosyncratical" expression, whose meaning may depend on context (and ... mood even).
Possible meanings : not really, I don't care, whatever, not at all ...
For *いいんじゃない *(also *いいんじゃないの*) it is also clear that in the example given (followed by 別に), _two people are involved_, 別に being the answer given to *いいんじゃない.*
Writing "別に いいんじゃない(の)?" would imply there is only _one_ speaker and would change the meaning to "that should be alright/not pose any problem, right ?".


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## Flaminius

> For *いいんじゃない *(also *いいんじゃないの*) it is also clear that in the example given (followed by 別に), _two people are involved_, 別に being the answer given to *いいんじゃない.*


No, it's not two separate sentences.  別に is an extraposed adverbial element.  A question mark is always followed a space unless there is a linebreak.  It is so whether or not a sentence ends at the question mark.

So your second translation is apt here:


> "that should be alright/not pose any problem, right ?"


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## Aoyama

But my second translation (I thought) was _only valid_ if 別に were placed at the beginning of the sentence ("別に いいんじゃない(の)?"). 
For me, a structure like *いいんじゃない? 別に *implies that* 別に *is an answer given by a third party.
Now, *いいんじゃない別に ? *may be the same as *別に いいんじゃない* and would involve only one person/speaker. It is true that the meaning would be a bit strange (but possible). Something like "isn't it OK ? I don't care, it doesn't matter to me, I don't give a damn ...
The problem comes (for me) from the fact that ...*ない *and *別に *_are separated by _*?* .


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## Jirachi

Thank you everyone! Maybe I should be more specific, this will help for the translation more. The main character consults a detective (調査員, right?) and asks for an investigation (調査). The detective says "取材ねえ.." "いいんじ_ゃ_ない? 別に" and the other character thinks "やっぱり".

So, could it have this meaning: "it should be ok, but isn't that risky?" ?


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## akimura

Jirachi said:


> The main character consults a detective (調査員, right?) and asks for an investigation (調査).The detective says "取材ねえ.." "いいんじ_ゃ_ない? 別に" and the other character thinks "やっぱり".
> 
> So, could it have this meaning: "it should be ok, but isn't that risky?" ?



_いいんじゃない？_ is perfectly interpreted as _It should be OK_.  But 別に can't be interpreted as _but isn't that risky_.  It rather means something oppposite: _I don't care_. ( Then the main character says to himself/herself _Just as I thought_.)

Please note that my fundamental interpretation of _いいんじゃない？別に_ has not been changed since my first post even now with more context; but I based my new interpretation on your interpretation this time. So _I don't care_ isn't a word for word translation of _別に_.


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## Aoyama

In that context, I would translate it as " it could be done, right ?".
"やっぱり" is also one of these "idiosyncratical" expressions in Japanese, difficult to translate. Here it could mean "I thought so", "that's what I (had) thought" or also "that figures" ...


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