# FR: à + ville / en/au + pays - préposition



## johnL

Hello, folks.
My dictionary says, "Il habite à Paris." as one definition for "à". But it also says, "habiter en Sicile" as one definition for "en".
In this usage (with _habiter_), are _à_ and _en_ interchangable, or does it have to do with the specific form of the verb (_habite_ vs _habiter_)?

Thanks very much.
John

*Moderator note:* This thread was discussing too many different cases and has therefore been closed. For more specific cases, see also the following related threads:

FR: en Haïti / à Haïti
FR: en / à Guadeloupe
FR: à la / en Martinique
FR: à / en Israël
FR: en / à Avignon, Arles, Antibes, etc.
FR: en / au + pays
FR: venir de l'/d'Angleterre, de (la) France, du Canada - article devant les noms de pays

See also our resources thread: Countries / Pays.


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## balaam

you use "à" for a city et "en" for a country. the grammatical reasons require someone way much educated than me.

It can be confusing when the name of the city refere to à country, as in "j'habite *au *Pays Noir" . [au = à le] 
(pays noir is a colloquial term for Charleroi, historically a coalminer city).

note, the exception of Chypre : "je vais en vacance à chypre" Vs "Je vais en vacance en Grêce". Chypre is considered a city while being a island.


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## Iznogoud

When referring to a city, use "à". For countries or states (including US states), use "en" if the name is feminine, or "au" if it is masculine. For most other geographical entities, use "dans". You can make it simpler by omitting this particle altogether ("j'habite la France", "j'habite Toronto"). I'm not sure it's entirely proper, but it works.

Il habite à Paris.
Il habite à New York.
Il habite en Californie.
Il habite au Kansas.
Il habite en France.
Il habite au Canada.
Il habite aux États-Unis. (plural)
Il habite en Sicile.
Il habite dans le comté de Chittenden.


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## sandera

Bonsoir,
As a student we have been told as one already stated en for the country and à  for the city.
Par exemple...J'habite en France, à Paris.
I may be wrong, correger sil-vous-plait.
S.


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## doodlebugger

sandera said:


> As a student we have been told as one already stated en for the country and à for the city.


 
That's true for the city but with the notable exception of Avignon.
We say _en Avignon_ and not _à Avignon_.
It comes from the fact that Avignon used to be the city of the pope and, like the Vatican, was considered an independent country.


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## pieanne

What would the gender of "Anjou" be? Isn't it masculine?


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## doodlebugger

Anjou is a region so we say _en Anjou_.
But if you go to its capital you go _à Angers._


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## pieanne

Yes, but you won't say "j'habite en Roussillon"? You'll use "dans le", won't you?


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## doodlebugger

Actually I used to live _en Languedoc-Roussillon_ !
At the moment I can't think of a region that does not use _en_.
It's different for _départements_ though.
We say: _dans le Gard, dans la Creuse, dans l'Hérault_.
Gee, I realize how difficult it must be for non-natives!


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## pieanne

Oh yes, so do I


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## Lezert

et quand le nom désigne à la fois un état et une ville, "en" et "à" permettent de faire la différence
je vais à Andorre ( la ville)  
je vais en Andorre ( le pays)

à Koweit / au Koweit


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## RuK

Singapore is a country, but so small we say "J'habite à Singapour". It is mind-boggling. Really, LE Alabama? LE Nebraska? Sometimes one is tempted to give it all up as a dead loss...


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## jann

For those who are interested in the genders of various states, provinces, countries, etc. please see the links we have amassed on the subject in the following Resources thread: Pays / Countries


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## Skeah

i know that in french you would say

"Je vais à *ville*"
"J'ai parlé à *nom*"
"Je voyage au *pays*"

but what exactly is it that makes it be that way (and yes i know that à la is feminine and aux is plural, i'm just wondering how to tell when you should use à and when to use au)


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## jann

Hello Skeah,

Well, there is one set of rules for places.  You'll find them here.  Remember that _au, à la_, and _aux_ all contain the direct object "the" (_le, la, les)_... so once you learn where the direct object is required in French, you will always know which à/au/etc form to use.

To consider your examples, the French say:

I am going to [Toronto]
I talked to [Mark]
I am traveling to/in *the* [Canada].

We wouldn't include the definite article "the" to talk about Canada in English (but we would use it to talk about "the United Kingdom"!).  However, the article is required in French, and consequently when you say that you are going "to" Canada, you have _à + le Canada = au Canada_.

On the other hand, French and English are similar when you are talking about people or cities:  we don't say "the Mark" and we don't say "the Toronto" (although we might say "the city of Toronto").  So you don't include the definite article in either case, and you just end up with _à_ + [person or city].

I hope that helps. 

PS.  Just to make things confusing, remember that we will say _en + feminine country_ but _au + masculine country_ if we want to say in/to + [country].  Do click that link I gave...


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## Skeah

so in the case of a fief (feudal plot of land given out to a lord, who would collect most of the profit from the peasants who worked there) would it be "à" or "au"?

"she would be sent to Trebond" (name of the fief)

"elle serait envoyé [à/au] Trebond" (and now that I look at it... is "elle serait envoyé" even right?)


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## jann

I have absolutely no idea which preposition would be used with a feudal fief.  It's also possible that there was no uniform rule, and that different place names were treated differently. But if I had to guess..

Is Trebond also the name of the principal town/village in the fief?  If so, you could use _à_.  If not, I might be tempted to apply the same language as we would for a modern French department or region (_dans le + masculine, en + feminine_).

Wait to see what the native speakers suggest. 

EDIT:  this is a fictional place, isn't it?  Make your life simple... call it _le fief de Trebond_ and then you have solved your problem --> _envoyé au fief de Trebond_


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## Skeah

sounds like a good idea to me  thanks for your help

for further clarification, Trebond is the name of the fief... so I guess that the closest that a fief would be to something today would be a very small province,  territory, or state... I've been leaning towards "au"


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## Manwelo

The correct sentence is "elle serait envoyée à Trébond"

Here Trebond is considered the same way as a town so you have to use "à" and I think that the correct translation for fief would be "domaine".


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## edward1529

En ce qui concerne "Prepositions with geographical names," je recommande que l'on lise les Sections 167-170, pp. 177-184, dans la grammaire de Daniel J. Calvez, French Reference Grammar: A Complete Reference Guide, 2e éd. (New York: McGraw-Hill, 2005).


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## Ian Tenor

Iznogoud said:


> For countries or states (including US states), use "en" if the name is feminine, or "au" if it is masculine. You can make it simpler by omitting this particle altogether ("j'habite la France", "j'habite Toronto"). I'm not sure it's entirely proper, but it works.


 
  Certain _small islands and island nations_ seem to require yet another way of dealing with this question.

'J'habite *au* Taiwan" doesn't quite sound right, does it, though Taiwan is a (masculine) country, and 'J'habite *à* Taiwan' seems to be the acceptable form.

  Perhaps a _small island_ is perceived, grammatically-speaking, as a rather large city ... 

  And does one say "J'habite en Chypre", "J'habite à la Chypre", or "J'habite à Chypre" ?

The answer has been given in another thread - 
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=750121

... together with a list of countries - http://publications.europa.eu/code/fr/fr-5000500.htm


 Pour contourner le problème, on peut toujours dire "J'habite la France / le Mexique / le Taiwan / la Chypre" tout comme on pourrait faire dès qu'il s'agit dune ville, n'est-ce pas ?


Et quant aux continents ...

'J'habite en Europe / en Asie / en Amerique du Nord / en Amerique du Sud / en Afrique / en Australie, Australasie, Océanie.'

Va pour les continents féminins : mais les quelques habitants de l'Antactique (m.) vont se trouver bien embêtés - 'à l'Antactique' , ou tout simplement l'Antarctique' ... ?


 Bien à vous -

 Ian


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## Iznogoud

Sorry, there's no easy way out of this one. You can't say "la" for all places. ("J'habite la Taïwan" doesn't work).

For Cyprus: "à Chypre".
For Antarctica: "en Antarctique".


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## wildan1

Ian Tenor said:


> Certain _small islands and island nations_ seem to require yet another way of dealing with this question.
> 
> 'J'habite *au* Taiwan" doesn't quite sound right, does it, though Taiwan is a (masculine) country, and 'J'habite *à* Taiwan' seems to be the acceptable form.
> 
> Perhaps a _small island_ is perceived, grammatically-speaking, as a rather large city ...


 
Well, Madagascar is the world's fourth largest island, but one says _J'habite *à* Madagascar._

Pour Taïwan, je pense qu'on peut aussi dire _J'habite Taïwan _


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## Ian Tenor

Iznogoud said:


> Sorry, there's no easy way out of this one. You can't say "la" for all places. ("J'habite la Taïwan" doesn't work).
> For Antarctica: "en Antarctique".


 

 Mais mon cher Iznogoud, je n'ai point proposé que l'on dise "J'habite _*la*_   Taïwan" : bien au contraire, j'avais avancé comme possibilité -



> 'J'habite *à*   Taiwan'


En ce qui concerne les continents -



> ... en Antarctique


Je vous demande pardon, mais en est-vous sûr ? C'est tout de même un nom propre _masculin_ et tout logiquement on dirait 'J'habite l'Antarctique' ...

 ... à moins qu'il y ait une tolérance de faire précéder les pays de nom masculin commençant avec une voyelle par 'en' , tout comme on fait avec les pays de nom féminin. Je n'en sais rien, n'étant qu'un piètre anglophone, et alors bon nombre des subtilités de la langue française m'échappent encore et toujours.

 Bref, est-ce qu'on dit, par exemple -

  J'habite à l'Angola / à l'Azerbaijan / à l'Equateur / à l'Iran / à l'Oman / à l'Uruguay - tous masculins, je crois -
 
 ou bien dit-on -

  J'habite en Angola / en Azerbaijan / en Equateur / en Iran / en Oman / en Uruguay ...
    ... ???

 De la réponse à cette question brûlante dépendra, j'imagine, la tranquillité de nombreux habitants de l'Antarctique.


 Merci beaucoup. Bien à vous -

 Ian


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## Ian Tenor

wildan1 said:


> Well, Madagascar is the world's fourth largest island, but one says _J'habite *à* Madagascar._


 

 Merci bien, wildan1.

 Hmmm. I had a look through the list I mentioned and all of the countries lacking an article, _le, la or l'_, seemed to be islands, with the odd exception of Israel which appeared simply as Israël and not as l'Israël, as I might have imagined.

 However, many islands do _not _lack the article, opf course, amongst them l'Islande, l'Irlande, l'Angleterre (si l'on veux), la Grande Bretagne, l'Australie, &c. - even, I believe, la Corse, la Sardaigne ...




wildan1 said:


> Pour Taïwan, je pense qu'on peut aussi dire _J'habite Taïwan _


 

Alors, peut être que le modèle -Je suis allé(e) à Taiwan / J'habite (à) Taiwan​- s'applique à toutes ces îles qui manquent d'article. Par exemple -Je suis allé(e) à Madagscar / J'habite (à) Madagscar
Je suis allé(e) à Chypre / J'habite (à) Chypre
Je suis allé(e) à Malte / J'habite (à) Malte
​Quel casse-tête !


Best wishes -

 Ian


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## jann

We have assembled an extensive review of prepositions to be used with geographical places, and of websites discussing the topic, in the Pays/Countries thread on the Resources sub-forum.


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## borritoe

What's the Difference in them?
Quelle est la différence dans eux?

Cette Rue est à Paris.
Cette Ville est en Paris.


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## Gutenberg

Cette rue est à Paris.


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## swift

Bonsoir Borritoe,

La différence c'est que contrairement à la première proposition, la deuxième est incorrecte. 

À plus ,


swift


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## gks

The rules governing which preposition to put before a place are to me the most complicated in the language.

I'll just show you what's in the reference book I use:

en +
pays ou île dont the nom est féminin
pays masculin dont le nom commence avec une voyelle
états des É.-U. dont le nom est féminin (qui terminent en français par -e ou -ie)
les provinces de la France

au +
pays dont le nom est masculin (excepté ceux qui ont une voyelle)
(il y en a 10)

aux + États-Unis

dans +
les départements de la France
états des É-U dont le nom est masculin — sauf le Texas

à +
une ville qui ne porte pas d'article
grandes îles dont le nom est masculin

Hope this is helpful to someone — and that in the time that I've typed that out someone has had time to answer my question in the forum!


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## broglet

To make things worse still, there are even exceptions to this rule. Some people say 'en Avignon' or 'en Arles' (apparently because they used to be separate states)


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## pyan

You will find a number of useful threads about this by searching.  I'll list some:

FR: à la Martinique ou en Martinique? - grammaire
FR: Dans, au, à la, et en - grammaire
FR: en Haïti / à Haïti - grammaire
FR: en/à/dans la banlieue - grammaire
FR: habiter à / habiter en - grammaire


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## jann

In addition to the threads listed by Pyan, we have a resources post on the topic of prepositions to use with geographical locations.

To prevent duplication of discussions, I have closed this thread.

Thanks! 

Jann
Moderator


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