# complete package [referring to a woman]



## tarotaro333g

Hi, recently someone (male) called me a compact package or perfect package or something like that ...(don't remember exactly). What does it mean? Is this a compliment? Thanks!


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## Kwistax

er... is it all he said to you, 'you're a complete package'?

Sounds a bit familiar to say the least. But my guess is that he likes you, he thinks you have the wit and the look.


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## owlman5

If you are a _perfect package_ to him, you are an ideal partner.  If you are a "compact package", you are probably petite.


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## Aardvark01

"Perfect package" would be a compliment meaning the other person finds you possess a number of features they find attractive. This 'package' can include both physical (hair, eyes, physique...) and psychological attributes (a ready smile, intelligence, wisdom...).

"Compact package" suggests the other person was taller than you, and could be a compliment or simply patronising.


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## owlman5

In the U.S., "package" almost always conveys a sense of affection in flirtatious talk.  I haven't heard anybody use it patronizingly in my part of the world.


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## Packard

I agree with the above.  

For a women to qualify for a "complete package" for me she would have to:


Be very pretty (preferably beautiful)
Have an excellent personality
Have a excellent figure
Be very intelligent
(And usually) have a good job (or lots of money)
(And absolutely) no disqualifying psychosis.

But you are cautioned about using that same term for men.  "Package" is a vulgar slang term for male genitals.


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## tarotaro333g

oh wow... interesting... I never even imagined "package" could have such meanings! Because you know, we learned package as package, like, wrapping or something...


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## Kwistax

Can the natives confirm my feeling using the word "package" in that context is not a very elegant way to address a woman? I feel this is derived from the typical commercial jargon, like a product package...


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## velisarius

I've never heard "package" used this way.


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## You little ripper!

velisarius said:


> I've never heard "package" used this way.


What! No one has ever called you 'the complete package', vel? Tall, slim, stunning, witty and extremely intelligent! 
It's very common in Australia. I'm not sure that being independently wealthy is a requirement in a woman (it is in a man), but I don't think it would hurt.


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## velisarius

No, Ylr, never. "Tall, slim, stunning, witty and extremely intelligent!" - add "takes no nonsense" to that list and you will see why. 

Do you ever use this rather demeaning phrase about men at all?


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## You little ripper!

velisarius said:


> Do you ever use this rather demeaning phrase about men at all?


Yes, we do. I don't think anyone here who is called that considers it demeaning, but I could be wrong.


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## suzi br

Kwistax said:


> Can the natives confirm my feeling using the word "package" in that context is not a very elegant way to address a woman? I feel this is derived from the typical commercial jargon, like a product package...


I agree with you.  
It is the sort of "compliment" some women might like, but some of us would just roll our eyes and ask the question velisarius posed above #11.


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## You little ripper!

I can actually understand that some women might find it demeaning. I don't think men would.


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## Kwistax

Being a human being is so much more than being a package. I must say I'm quite dismayed this would be a common way to describe someone, and above all a woman. I think it's quite degrading...


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## You little ripper!

Kwistax said:


> Being a human being is so much more than being a package. I must say I'm quite dismayed this would be a common way to describe someone, and above all a woman. I think it's quite degrading...


Kwistax, I think 'package' in that expression simply means _a group of qualities/characteristics that are presented as one unit._

It's not the sort of expression I'd normally use, but I've never thought of it as being degrading or demeaning until now.


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## Packard

velisarius said:


> No, Ylr, never. "Tall, slim, stunning, witty and extremely intelligent!" - add "takes no nonsense" to that list and you will see why.
> 
> Do you ever use this rather demeaning phrase about men at all?



Unfortunately "takes no nonsense" falls under the heading of "disqualifying psychosis". 

I think an accurate definition of "complete package" would be "all the characteristics that I feel are appealing in a woman".

If you think of the definition instead of the word "package" it does not seem demeaning at all.


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## boozer

You little ripper! said:


> Kwistax, I think 'package' in that expression simply means _a group of qualities/characteristics that are presented as one unit._
> 
> It's not the sort of expression I'd normally use, but I've never thought of it as being degrading or demeaning until now.


I agree. Anything at all can be seen as patronising or insulting depending on how it is said. I could be insulted if I doubted the sincerity of the person saying this otherwise flattering phrase. And I believe a woman (or a man) should generally be happy to hear it.


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## Kwistax

mmh, okay. I suppose this is one of those idiosyncratic cases where the translation to another language doesn't do it at all then!


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## velisarius

"Complete package" is in Urban Dictionary, defined thus (but with only 15 approving thumbs up): 
_
 As slang, a reference to a woman or man who has all the traits that one would desire in a romantic or sexual partner._
_Urban Dictionary: complete package



_


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## Kwistax

Then I assume it's a *very* colloquial language (as a result of which, to me, the way you'll take it will depend on the context and on your usual level of language).


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## Packard

velisarius said:


> "Complete package" is in Urban Dictionary, defined thus (but with only 15 approving thumbs up):
> _
> As slang, a reference to a woman or man who has all the traits that one would desire in a romantic or sexual partner._
> _Urban Dictionary: complete package
> 
> 
> 
> _


Yes to "potential romantic or sexual partner".

You would not use this to describe a job applicant, for an example.


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## Hermione Golightly

If I were called a "complete package" as a compliment, I'd tell the bloke he'd better find another service provider.


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## owlman5

Hermione Golightly said:


> If I were called a "complete package" as a compliment, I'd tell the bloke he'd better find another service provider.


It's fine to dislike "package", Hermione, Kwistax and Suzi, but that doesn't change the fact that people who use the term mean no offense.  I suppose some men could choose to scowl because some women use "hunk" and "stud" to talk about desirable men.  That won't stop those words from being used, and it doesn't change the complimentary nature of those words in the minds of those who use them.

I'd be reluctant to use anything involving "package" in a conversation with a woman I didn't know very well.  When I hear that word, it's generally used among men who are talking about some woman they find attractive.


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## Parla

In my part of the US, women aren't referred to as "packages". Neither are men.


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## Packard

Of course when a man refers to a woman as "a complete package" he is thinking of her as a wife, girlfriend, mistress or someone he'd just like to have sex with.

In that regard a woman could and perhaps should take offense.  Not because of the complement but because of the underlying sexual theme.

In some cases it is simply a substitute for "There's a girl I'd really like to fuck."

So I might use the term when talking to other guys, but never have I used it when talking to the woman involved.


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## boozer

Packard, I do not know many women who do not want to be desired


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## Packard

boozer said:


> Packard, I do not know many women who do not want to be desired



I don't think it is a very classy way to express that to a woman.  I can see guys saying it in "guy talk" but I don't think it will ever fly when guys say it about women.


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## OaksnRoses

owlman5 said:


> I'd be reluctant to use anything involving "package" in a conversation with a woman I didn't know very well. When I hear that word, it's generally used among men who are talking about some woman they find attractive



I agree with owlman.

I have close fiends who have used this phrase and meant, "she's everything I want in a partner. This is the girl I want to marry". But they were talking to their best friends, not the girl!


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## owlman5

That's an important point, O&R.  Tarotaro's experience seems unusual to me.  I certainly don't hear men addressing women as "packages" in my daily life.


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## Delvo

tarotaro333g said:


> compact package or perfect package or something like that ...(don't remember exactly)


Aside from "complete package", meaning multiple good traits packaged together, another possibility is that you heard someone say "Good things come in small packages". Sometimes this literally means small boxes contain more valuable objects than big boxes, but it is also sometimes used as a metaphor, in reference to a small person whom the speaker likes.


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## Delvo

I more often hear women refer to men as a "complete package" than the other way around... funny how the first time I ever encounter anybody imagining that it's somehow "demeaning" is when it _is_ the other way around...


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## You little ripper!

OaksnRoses said:


> I agree with owlman.
> 
> I have close fiends who have used this phrase and meant, "she's everything I want in a partner. This is the girl I want to marry". But they were talking to their best friends, not the girl!





owlman5 said:


> That's an important point, O&R.  Tarotaro's experience seems unusual to me.  I certainly don't hear men addressing women as "packages" in my daily life.


That's been my experience, too. Occasionally I've heard it used directly, but only as a joke. The recipient wasn't offended, or it appeared that way because s/he laughed. But then who knows?

It's also in the Urban dictionary as 'total package'.
_A guy or girl who has the combination of both looks and personality, sense of humor, etc.
It's rare to find someone that has the total package.
_
Dictionary.com has it as 'total package' (close to the bottom of the page).
_Someone who has an array of good qualities, plus good looks: She's the total package_


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## suzi br

Hermione Golightly said:


> If I were called a "complete package" as a compliment, I'd tell the bloke he'd better find another service provider.


  Brilliant riposte.


Just as a matter of interest:  are all the people who think this is OK men?
(and most of the people who think it is potentially demeaning are women?)  
It is hard to be sure with the nicknames, but it seems to me that is the divide.  And there you have the problem about casual ways of describing women: some men don't even have the sense to see the problem with it, and want to argue with our sense that it is inappropriate. 

And no, don't bother trying to tell me that it is my female neuroticism that makes me wince at the idea of women being described as a package.  It is just as bad as wolf-whistling to me, and I never agreed that I ought to see that as a "compliment" either.


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## owlman5

I do hope you know, Suzi, that you are unlikely to hear any male address you directly as a "package" in the U.S.  As people have taken pains to explain, that is a word that's far more likely to be used among a group of men who are admiring some woman.  

In those circles, you don't get to vote.  I certainly don't get to vote about which words are acceptable when women talk among themselves about the men they find attractive. That doesn't trouble me.


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## suzi br

Sure, I don't need a vote in what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes, and context is always the key to any language issue.  Here, we are in a discussion forum, and some of the men (in here) have said that they don't see it as a problematic expression. While it seems that ALL the women who joined in have said that they do think it is problematic.


Furthermore 


tarotaro333g said:


> Hi, recently someone (male) called me a compact package or perfect package or something like that ...(don't remember exactly). What does it mean? Is this a compliment? Thanks!


The OP had it said to her face, we do not know who by, and she is unsure about whether it is a compliment or not.


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## Kwistax

Well, I'm a man, in my forties, and I wouldn't ever speak like that of a woman, except maybe to sound purposely rude, as a joke.


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## owlman5

Perhaps you'd have a different opinion if you heard "package" used positively a few times in conversations among American men, Kwistax.  Perhaps not.  I do think you'd pick up the idea that those men were using it in a complimentary way.


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## velisarius

"Perfect package" does have a ring to it. It depends on the spirit in which it was said. It might even be said in a very loving way. As an offhand comment, and not in a situation of intimacy, it sounds demeaning to me.


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## owlman5

suzi br said:


> The OP had it said to her face, we do not know who by, and she is unsure about whether it is a compliment or not.


I saw that, Suzi, and agreed with another American that this was an unusual thing to say.  He was probably trying to be complimentary, but I've never heard anybody over here walk up to stranger and say "Hello, you fine little package".  If I ever heard such a thing, it would sound really stupid and awkward to me.


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## suzi br

Kwistax said:


> Well, I'm a man, in my forties, and I wouldn't ever speak like that of a woman, except maybe to sound purposely rude, as a joke.


Good to know


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## boozer

I am a man (married) and I would probably not say this to a woman's face unless I knew her very well already, or even intimately. In this limited set of scenarios, I could say that as a compliment.


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## Delvo

suzi br said:


> And no, don't bother trying to tell me that it is my female neuroticism that makes me wince at the idea of women being described as a package.  It is just as bad as wolf-whistling to me, and I never agreed that I ought to see that as a "compliment" either.


I wouldn't attribute it to your "female" anything, because I have never encountered another female in my life who has a problem with the phrase "complete package". It's completely ordinary and routine.

The problem is not related to this phrase's definition or any other linguistic issue, but a sociological/psychological one: there is a tendency in several English-speaking countries for _*some*_ women to have a hostile reaction to compliments, especially those about the way they look... and to falsely attribute that hostility to the speaker, calling the compliments insulting/demeaning/offensive. (...And to act as if they speak for _*all*_ women in doing this.) There is not one single compliment you can possibly give a woman and be sure she won't react this way to it. But even those who do act this way over some compliments don't all have the same list of which ones to react this way to and which ones are exempt, so you also can't take one woman's word for it about how another one will react.

And that is something to keep in mind for good communication in general (both to avoid saying stuff that might be taken wrong _*and*_ to avoid taking things wrong that are said to you), but it's not a part of the definition of any word or phrase, and should not be presented as if it were to someone who's unfamiliar with the word or phrase and simply asking what it actually means. The fact that a few people can be expected to act as if a whole class of words & phrases meant something that they don't mean is purely and entirely a matter of how people approach interaction & communication, not a built-in part of the meanings of any one of those words or phrases.


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## suzi br

A classsic example of "man-splaining".  So you are not interested in the women in this thread (not just me) who resist the semantic field of consumerism being applied to a woman? Our view is not relevant to the discussion, cos we " don't understand about good communication".  

For the record,   I said the phrasing was problematic for some women, I never said it was ALL women.


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## Kwistax

I believe yes, it has a lot to do with the word package in it-self which is dehumanizing; as I said, like the woman would be a product wrapped in package.

I do feel there is an American way and a European one to tackle these questions of human relationship, and they are very different. Americans are often a lot more flippant - or relaxed about it than us...


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## siares

Interesting viewpoints. I only know the phrase from American TV shows, where it seemed to me always positive, the men talking about woman like this would consider her as a partner, not a fling - it seemed to me the tone was sometimes almost reverent. I don't like the word package on its own when I think about it.


Delvo said:


> The problem is not related to this phrase's definition or any other linguistic issue


For myself, I cannot agree with this for _all_ phrases. I would never refer to myself as 'service provider' (post 23) in a riposte or jest or otherwise.


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## pob14

I find this thread interesting.  I don't know that I have ever heard the phrase (which I know as "total package," as Ripper referenced above) in relation to a potential _partner_; I only recall hearing it used to refer to _athletes_.  (Maybe I don't watch the right shows, or maybe I've blocked it out.) 

Willie Mays, for example, was _the total package_: he could hit, run, field - everything you could want in a baseball player.  This usage should not be surprising, since we treat our professional athletes as commodities in the US.


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