# Are children disrespectful these days?



## luis masci

*When I was a child most children just went home after school and worked doing chores. Now the children must be chauffeured around to their very important appointments. Also, children do not get punished the way children were punished when I was young. Many young people treat their elders with a level of disrespect that never would have been tolerated in previous generations. Is that true there as well or is it just en los EEUU?*
The above, is part of a mail that my American friend wrote me. 
I always thought it would be fairly normal for my country Argentina, still recovering after to live many years under dictatorships, where people feel fed up of authoritarian powers and for that reason they have now an extremely permissive attitude with their children. But why it is the same in a powerful country that have not passed under those sadly circumstances is a real puzzled to me. 
So my questions would be:
Are you in agreement with my friend? (For those who are living in USA)
Do you feel this statement would be true also for your country/state /city/town? (For all members)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Corrections of my attempts to write in English are welcome anytime


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## .   1

It is entirely possible that this is what has been said by each generation of grumpy old boors ever since Adam was a lad.

So many people have a selective memory with regards to 'the good old days'. People talk about how dangerous life is today as compared to when I was a kid. Pish and tosh.
Just 100 years ago it was not safe to walk the streets of Sydney due to mob violence.

I suspect that the problem encountered here is trying to view life through the distorting lens of the media which will continue to focus on every single banal action with nothing too petty or mean for their purpose of depressing an audience so that their commercials can sell you the next flipping useless thing to cheer you up from the news induced gloom.

I keep hearig about these disrespectful kids but it is always a vicarious experience reported relating to somebody that a mate knew who had a friend who read it in a magazine in the dunny of a prawn trawler.

Kids today are exactly as wonderful as their parents.

.,,


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## Brioche

Ask a teacher who's near retirement this question:
"How likely was it when you began your career for a teacher to be assaulted by a student?
How likely is it now?"

But as .,, says, Kids today are exactly as wonderful as their parents.

So the next question for our retiring teacher:
"How likely, then and now, for a parent to assault a teacher?"


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## maxiogee

luis masci said:


> *When I was a child most children just went home after school and worked doing chores. Now the children must be chauffeured around to their very important appointments. Also, children do not get punished the way children were punished when I was young. Many young people treat their elders with a level of disrespect that never would have been tolerated in previous generations. Is that true there as well or is it just en los EEUU?*



If I may abuse your friend's text to make a point…
Children do not get chastised the way children were physically beaten when I was young. Many adults back then treated younger people with a level of disrespect that never will be tolerated in future generations​.

Thank one's God that those days are gone.
'Respect' in your friends piece was - back then - a euphemism (in many homes in Ireland, at least) for terror and dread.
Those parents are finding their twilight years to be lonely ones, as they find themselves estranged from the children they beat so routinely years ago.

Although we were never estranged and we had a reconciliation over several matters, my mother and I had a very fraught relationship in which I certainly resented the beatings I used to fall victim to, and she was very much against my decision not to use violence on my son - a decision she never commented to me about, but did to my siblings.

My wife and I have raised a fine young man who is a far better person, and who has a much better relationship with his parents, than I was/had at his age. Does he disrespect us - only when we do something stupid!


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## mirx

Well it might be just me and my family, but I totally agree with the first post.

A few examples:

My generation were taught to always adress our elders by "usted" my small cousins don't seem to know what this means.

I would always refer to my uncles and aunts as, Tío Julio or Tía María, kids now won't bother with the title, their elder relatives are simple Julio and María.

When I was told to do something by any family member, it was done right away, my cousins now retort "I´m busy", "I'll do it later", "Not now" and so on.

Just the other day my aunt brought some friends home and asked my little cousin (and her niece) to heat up some food for them, the answer, she stared at my aunt for 4 or 5 seconds, then laughed and walked away, not a single word and obviously no heated food!!!

I've also heard some of them cursing and swearing, my aunts and uncles can't seem to control them.

Children are given too much liberty, but then again, it might be (it is) the parent's issues of their own traumatic childhoods.


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## Etcetera

luis masci said:


> Do you feel this statement would be true also for your country/state /city/town? (For all members)


It certainly is true for Russia. 
Children have acquired much more freedom during the last decades. I don't know about Western countries, but here in Russia there are now much more activities available for children. Yes, I mean TV and the Internet, among other. Parents are no longer as authoritative as they were once.


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## maxiogee

mirx said:


> My generation were taught to always adress our elders by "usted" my small cousins don't seem to know what this means.


Respect is more than a mere form of words.
I told my nephews and nieces - at an early age - that they could address me as Tony or Uncle Tony, as they wished. I said I would be happy with wahtever they were comfortable with. Some say Uncle Tony and some don't. Some of the ones who use 'uncle' are less respectful than some who don't.





> When I was told to do something by any family member, it was done right away, my cousins now retort "I´m busy", "I'll do it later", "Not now" and so on.


But, if the job _can_ wait, what's wrong with someone saying "I'll do it later."?




> Just the other day my aunt brought some friends home and asked my little cousin (and her niece) to heat up some food for them, the answer, she stared at my aunt for 4 or 5 seconds, then laughed and walked away, not a single word and obviously no heated food!!!


Sounds like the 'little cousin' (how young?) felt that the aunt was asking for more than she was entitled to ask for.What authority did she have to make such a request? In whose home did this happen? What was to prevent the aunt from heating up the food herself - it _was_ for her and her friends, after all.


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## Chaska Ñawi

I certainly think that _adults _are more respectful of _children _these days.

When I was a child, teachers and babysitters were free to smack, strap, or use whatever other forms of physical discipline appealed.  Parents were free to use more intense physical "discipline".  Many teachers routinely humiliated children in a way that they would never have done to an adult.  In addition to the three Rs, these teachers taught by example that respect was about power and not courtesy.

Regarding titles, I see many people of my own generation who refuse to use them when addressing seniors.  The worst offenders are employees of hospitals and retirement homes.  The children with whom I work are far more respectful to their elders than many adults who work with seniors.

Respect isn't about obedience, and it isn't about using titles.  It is about treating others with courtesy and dignity.  Ideally, children who obey parents, teachers and other people in authority do so from respect ... but realistically, some children obey because the alternatives are worse.  Their obedience is not the same as respect.

The apple falls close to the tree.  Most children who do not respect others learn this from their parents.  As .,, says, disrespectful young have been lamented by every generation.


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## Alxmrphi

Short answer: Yes, kids nowadays seem to think the world owes them something


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## Veggy

I think that the parents and teachers Chaska Nawi talks about did not teach or even want respect from the younger ones, they just wanted obedience which would have made _their_ life easier and make them feel poweful. What they taught in fact is that through punishment, strengh and violence one wins. In the case no introspection is done, some people continue in exactly the same manner to treat their own children. I really beleive it is the cause of emotional blindness we find today in adults regarding all kind of suffering.
Sometimes, when we get from a child or a very young person a reaction we do not expect, we mistake it for lack of respect but sometimes it is only a right reaction to _our _lack of respect towards them. Some adults think they are _always_ right when they deal with young people but it is not so. It happens that the younger ones know very well the adult is wrong or is acting disrespecfully, they just don't know the "appropriate" answer at that specific moment. 
Before we judge someone disrespectful, are we sure we really know what respect is?


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## xarruc

Kids aren’t respectful of anything. Kids beat up on each other constantly (physically or otherwise) for the slightest reason at all. Kids are discouraged by their peers from developing unusual or unfashionable interests (Also known as “uncool”) and instead coerced into being cool (basically defined as what every the dominant kids are into). This is all part of the learning process as they learn about power and how to use it.
 
Adults on the other hand are nowadays expected to be respectful of everyone, no matter how different their tastes are. The overriding philosophy seems to be you can do what you like, whatever it is. The current test on incest law is part of that trend.
 
The problem puts adults at a disadvantage, much like a pacifist against a bully. In the past it was overcome through severe punishment and as correctly noted in other posts merely obedience without respect.
 
However adults should be respected, to some degree. They have many things kids often don’t have, such as experience, knowledge, maturity, compassion for others and respect. That makes an adult’s opinion, on the whole, more valuable than a child’s. 
 
People also try to teach kids things. Perhaps by asking a kid to do chores the parent is teaching them a work ethic, a community ethic, perseverance, the value of money (if paid), a skill and a sense of reward for doing something for someone else – valuable things needed in life. If the kid replies “go f** you self” and is allowed to walk off then at the end of the day it’s their choice and their loss – or is it? Perhaps its society’s loss because the world listened too much to the do-gooders and too little to common sense.
 
Speaking in a vulgar manner to your mate may not be insulting, but it is to your teacher. Kids may not respect adults any more these days than they did before (all kids give their teachers silly (childish!) names – the difference is before they didn’t say it to their faces.
 
A kid should be taught to do what an adult says – within reason – and - a kid should not insult or attack an adult. If these can’t be done through respect then obedience through fear of punishment is good enough for me.
 
The thing is how do you make them obey those rules? Not all punishment is corporal. Not all punishment is demeaning or humiliating. Shying away from obliging obedience is not the answer.


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## maxiogee

xarruc said:


> Kids aren’t respectful of anything. Kids beat up on each other constantly (physically or otherwise) for the slightest reason at all. Kids are discouraged by their peers from developing unusual or unfashionable interests (Also known as “uncool”) and instead coerced into being cool (basically defined as what every the dominant kids are into). This is all part of the learning process as they learn about power and how to use it.



Having been born in 1950 I feel fairly confident in  saying that that sentence could have come from any of the six different decades I have experienced so far in this life. It was — more or less — ever thus.


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## TrentinaNE

That might be true, Tony, but I think the difference lies in what is tolerated (and therefore tacitly approved) by parents compared to earlier generations. The Boston Globe weighs in on this very subject today.


> With a new study last week showing that today's college students are the most narcissistic and self-centered in decades, a small chorus of professionals is offering a bold response: We have no one to blame but ourselves.


and


> "We live in a very individualistic culture. Telling each child he or she is special is based on the premise that building self-esteem leads to good outcomes. It works the other way around: Good outcomes lead to self-esteem. What people thought builds self-esteem turns out to build narcissism."


In my experience, too many of today's parents prioritize protecting their children from the world over preparing them to deal with it, which includes learning how to stand up for oneself while still respecting others. The parents I admire manage to strike an appropriate balance, which admittedly takes some skill and a willingness to be perceived as "the bad guy" on occasion.

Elisabetta


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## french4beth

It's not the kids' fault if the parents don't teach the children how to behave respectfully; however, many adults don't deserve respect, nor do they give it.

Many parents appear to think that the more crap they buy their kids, or the more activities they sign their kids up for, the better the parent they are! Most kids don't have any real 'down' time where they can just play and actually use their imagination. Quality family time is not about rushing thru the drive-thru and gobbling down a meal while rushing to the day's practice/game/match/lesson. 

I made a point of showing my children respect from a very tender age, including saying "please" and "thank you" to them when they were infants. They all have excellent manners, and no, I didn't have to beat it into them, scream at them, terrorize them or otherwise threaten them (which is the way I learned manners from my parent, for the most part).

I agree with TrentinaNE - most parents these days can't seem to stick to their guns - there are no consequences if children behave inappropriately, and parents are too busy trying to be the kids' "buddies" rather than giving the kids what they _need, _that is, love & structure.


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## .   1

Is there one parent willing to put their hand up and say that their own children fit this stereotype?

Does anybody stop to think who children emulate as they grow?

Many of the negative comments made here relating to children could have been made by peole with little or no contact with children today other than the 3% of loud and obnoxious young people on the streets.
Nobody notices the kids giving up their time in soup kitchens.
No one seems to care about the kids who go and visit granny even though she smells weird and the kids have to be quiet.
No one mentions the kids who share their food at school with kids who are a bit hungry that day.

No body notices the stunning number of random acts of kindness committed by these young people because they are not reported with anything like the schadenfreude that delivering bad news can bring.

Has anybody noticed that women are less polite these days?
Has anybody noticed that men are more chauvenistic today?
Has anybody noticed that {fill in the blank space} deserves to be criticised because I am no longer part of that group?

Could we not equally ask;
Has anybody noticed how useless parents are these days?

.,,


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## maxiogee

. said:


> Could we not equally ask;
> Has anybody noticed how useless parents are these days?



Sadly - this, also, was ever thus.


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## mirx

> maxiogee
> Respect is more than a mere form of words.
> I completely agree there with you





> I told my nephews and nieces - at an early age - that they could address me as Tony or Uncle Tony, as they wished. I said I would be happy with wahtever they were comfortable with. Some say Uncle Tony and some don't. Some of the ones who use 'uncle' are less respectful than some who don't.


What happens when you DONT give them that possibility and still they do it, it means that they will call you whatever they want.
And anyways that's not the point, I am comparing what it was then and what it is now, 10 years later.





> But, if the job _can_ wait, what's wrong with someone saying "I'll do it later."?


Again, not saying is good or bad just comparing.





> Sounds like the 'little cousin' (how young?) felt that the aunt was asking for more than she was entitled to ask for.What authority did she have to make such a request? In whose home did this happen? What was to prevent the aunt from heating up the food herself - it _was_ for her and her friends, after all.[/


The young cousin was 12, she was old enough to do what she was asked and no, she didn't have a practical obligation to do anything, and that's when respect and courtesy come about, and what prevented her for doing a favor -it was that, a mere favor- was her rudeness and her inability to show any discipline.


...,
Is there one parent willing to put their hand up and say that their own children fit this stereotype?*Many of my married cousins will.*

Does anybody stop to think who children emulate as they grow?*I do*

Many of the negative comments made here relating to children could have been made by peole with little or no contact with children today other than the 3% of loud and obnoxious young people on the streets.
*I have worked with them for three years and babysat many of my young cousins. Still I think children are mean.*
Nobody notices the kids giving up their time in soup kitchens. 
No one seems to care about the kids who go and visit granny even though she smells weird and the kids have to be quiet.* What about the ones who say in her face, after being asked what took them so long to visit, "I don't like to come becasue you smell weird"?*
No one mentions the kids who share their food at school with kids who are a bit hungry that day. *Many more beat up the next in the row, take away his food and initimate him. An applause to those who share their food.*

No body notices the stunning number of random acts of kindness committed by these young people because they are not reported with anything like the schadenfreude that delivering bad news can bring.
*I think everybody notices and since it's so unsual evreybody comments on it. "You shoul do as XXX, he's a lovely child their parents must very proud of him, but you are..." These kids are very well appreciated respected and loved, an applause to them too.
*
Has anybody noticed that women are less polite these days? *I have, although them I can't compare with the women before, I'm not that old enough.*
Has anybody noticed that men are more chauvenistic today? *Not where I live and used to live. If anything some women got chauvenistic with these "extrme feminism trends".*
Has anybody noticed that {fill in the blank space kids} deserves to be criticised because I am no longer part of that group? They do as a matter of fact.

Could we not equally ask;
Has anybody noticed how useless parents are these days? *We can  and we should, just not in this thread.*

*I agree a 80% with Xarruc.*

*Of course I can't blame the children they are nothing but a mirror.*


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## .   1

maxiogee said:


> Sadly - this, also, was ever thus.


"Well I'll be buggered!" he said unsurprisingly.
The good old days are only the good old days because of selective memory.
97% of parents raise 97% wonderful kids and 100% of them go on to raise 97% perfect people.

The 97%ers will outclass and outlast the 3%ers.

.,,


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## .   1

mirx said:


> ...,
> Is there one parent willing to put their hand up and say that their own children fit this stereotype?*Many of my married cousins will.*


Could you ask one of them to come here and say it directly rather than as a vicarious anecdote from you?



mirx said:


> Does anybody stop to think who children emulate as they grow?*I do*


Then you get my drift.



mirx said:


> Many of the negative comments made here relating to children could have been made by peole with little or no contact with children today other than the 3% of loud and obnoxious young people on the streets.
> *I have worked with them for three years and babysat many of my young cousins. Still I think children are mean.*


When I was young I thought that my younger cousins were little shits and we treated each other appallingly but this was reserved for cousins not others.  I would hate to be judged on the opinions my older cousins held of me when I was a bratty little sprat but for a cousin of mine to extrapolate our childhood behaviour and consider that all children treated all children in the same way would be spurious.



mirx said:


> Nobody notices the kids giving up their time in soup kitchens.


What are you confused about here?
Does your society not have soup kitchens?
Are those soup kitchens not staffed in some way by your youth?



mirx said:


> No one seems to care about the kids who go and visit granny even though she smells weird and the kids have to be quiet.* What about the ones who say in her face, after being asked what took them so long to visit, "I don't like to come becasue you smell weird"?*


A 3%er whose granny is also a 3%er.  Don't you reckon that the kid would have been happy to visit the old bag if she gave the kid some reason to do so rather than just being guilted to do so?
Did you see this happen or is this a reported story?



mirx said:


> No one mentions the kids who share their food at school with kids who are a bit hungry that day. *Many more beat up the next in the row, take away his food and initimate him. **An applause to those who share their food.*


That's pure rubbish.  The rest of the kids would not tolerate such behaviour.
Again, have you seen this or is this a theory?



mirx said:


> No body notices the stunning number of random acts of kindness committed by these young people because they are not reported with anything like the schadenfreude that delivering bad news can bring.
> *I think everybody notices and since it's so unsual evreybody comments on it. "You shoul do as XXX, he's a lovely child their parents must very proud of him, but you are..." These kids are very well appreciated respected and loved, an applause to them too.*


You have again been able to take a positive and twist it around to a guilt trip.
You should write a post modern novel about the separation of society and youth and the nihlistic view produced.



mirx said:


> Has anybody noticed that women are less polite these days? *I have, although them I can't compare with the women before, I'm not that old enough.*
> Has anybody noticed that men are more chauvenistic today? *Not where I live and used to live. If anything some women got chauvenistic with these "extrme feminism trends".*


How do you pronounce irony?




mirx said:


> Has anybody noticed that {fill in the blank space kids} deserves to be criticised because I am no longer part of that group? They do as a matter of fact.


Why do kids in general generally deserve to be criticised generally?



mirx said:


> Could we not equally ask;
> Has anybody noticed how useless parents are these days? *We can and we should, just not in this thread.*
> 
> *I agree a 80% with Xarruc.*
> 
> *Of course I can't blame the children they are nothing but a mirror.*


I am so pleased that you found that there is something that the kids didn't do.
On this point we concur.

.,,


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## maxiogee

. said:


> 97% of parents raise 97% wonderful kids and 100% of them go on to raise 97% perfect people.



Why then do psychiatriatrists and psychoanalysts have queues and waiting lists?
Why could most people name one member of their family circle (grandchildren of two of the same four grandparents - aunts/uncles/cousins) who doesn't 'get on' with at least one other member?

Parents 'play it by ear' a lot of the time.
They do what they generally think is right for the child but they can, at times, be very mistaken.
Is there anyone who suffered more severe chastisement as a child than the occasional wooden spoon or slipper on the read end who thinks that 'a beating' did them any good.
The children's welfare agencies/charities cannot cope with the volume of calls they get from parentally abused, or sibling abused children (and not all of it is sexual violence, there's a lot of physical and psychological trauma going on behind closed doors - and there has been for generations. But - speaking out about it when your abuser is alive is very difficult and when they're dead it often appears pointless.

Violence against children was endemic and systemised and was well known to be occurring in the Ireland of my youth. Apart from myself, I knew several lads who suffered regular beatings at the hands of parents who couldn't cope with what life had handed them. My sister tells me of girls in her school who were beaten at home - though a smaller percentage than that of boys.
The religious teaching order, the Christian Brothers, is still dealing with the volume of accusations made against its members from ex-pupils. We, as children, knew that this went on, so the parents who sent they're children to these schools cannot plead ignorance of the situation. What was happening was that the state was getting a damn good education service (and a separate orphanage service and a reformatory service) and from these people, and from similar orders of religious sisters (who could be just as cruel) for next-to-nothing. The parents were then in thrall to the Church and the whole sorry situation was ignored by 'the blind eye'.

So, I query that 97% figure.


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## .   1

The 97% is completely off the top of my head and may be off by a point of two but not by much or we wouldn't have survived as a species.  It is possible that 98% or 99% of people are wonderful.

Just take a town of 10,000 people.  If 97% are wonderful this still leaves 300 arseholes.

A family of 100 still has 3 mongrels.

We are a vast swarm and a small percentage of loosers is all we can support.

.,,


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## mirx

> Could you ask one of them to come here and say it directly rather than as a vicarious anecdote from you?


Unfortunately they're no where around here, but I am sure they will if asked.



> When I was young I thought that my younger cousins were little shits and we treated each other appallingly but this was reserved for cousins not others. I would hate to be judged on the opinions my older cousins held of me when I was a bratty little sprat but for a cousin of mine to extrapolate our childhood behaviour and consider that all children treated all children in the same way would be spurious.


I don't judge my cousins only based on how they behave, this is not either a thread of "Are children being treated fairly?", I am respectful to them and they are to an extent respectful to me, but they parents let them get away with things never thought of before, and the same child that years ago submissively accepted a scolding, will now retort back and try to have his way. Whether this is a minus or a plus is not the point of the thread.



> What are you confused about here?
> Does your society not have soup kitchens?
> Are those soup kitchens not staffed in some way by your youth?


I do not know what a soup kitchen is.



> A 3%er whose granny is also a 3%er. Don't you reckon that the kid would have been happy to visit the old bag if she gave the kid some reason to do so rather than just being guilted to do so?
> Did you see this happen or is this a reported story?


That's what I'm talking about, even if the granny was bitter and mean to the kids, these would tolerate her. Now you can't expect them to even try to deal with her moods, much less tolerate them. Is this good, bad? Not the point.



> That's pure rubbish. The rest of the kids would not tolerate such behaviour.[/color]
> Again, have you seen this or is this a theory?


When was the last time you were in an elementary school?
It happens all the time in american school, I am not sure if it happens where I live now, but I am certain it happened all the time where I lived before.


> You have again been able to take a positive and twist it around to a guilt trip.
> You should write a post modern novel about the separation of society and youth and the nihlistic view produced.


I've given similar opinions.


> How do you pronounce irony?


ai-ro-nee



> Why do kids in general generally deserve to be criticised generally?


Because I am not part of that group anymore.



> I am so pleased that you found that there is something that the kids didn't do.
> On this point we concur.


 
I do not hate kids, and I want that to be clear, I just happen to notice how enormously different they behave to when I was a kid.

Another absolutely important thing that we (I) have been missing is the cultural differences, I can now only speak for American and Mexican children and Canadian children, and I don't see why it should be different in the rest of the continent.

We should also get clear as to what "dis/respectful" means. Some of you have been mistaking it wiht "justice" or "fairness". And probably I have mistook it for something else.

We can't generalize absolutely anything, but I don't have the figures. 

Let's say 25 percent of children are disrespectful, what I mean is that the proportion to which these kids are disrespectful exeeds the level of disrespectfulness their, probably parents, had 30 or so years ago.

Again not the kids fault.


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## karuna

Children are just naturally more vivid, energetic and inclined to run arround, play, shout etc. As we get older we start to like peaceful atmosphere more and more. Therefore children's behaviour may irritate us even though it was only natural for their age. When their behaviour is wrong and they should be corrected there is no need to take offence because children are trying to assert their place in this world and have not yet learned how to do it correctly. And of course, a few spoiled brats damage the general perception of children. But to me it seems that children today are not much different from my childhood time. 

I hear a lot of shocking stories how discipline has degraded in schools but then it must be the problem with these schools because it looks that when those children come home they become normal again.


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## ElaineG

> Kids aren’t respectful of anything. Kids beat up on each other constantly (physically or otherwise) for the slightest reason at all. Kids are discouraged by their peers from developing unusual or unfashionable interests (Also known as “uncool”) and instead coerced into being cool (basically defined as what every the dominant kids are into). This is all part of the learning process as they learn about power and how to use it.


 
Well, I was born more or less 20 years after Tony, yet it's still been 20 years since I was a child, and all the above statements certainly applied to my growing up.

I remember putting tacks in the teacher's chair, vandalizing the science lab, mooning traffic cops, telling my mother to go f*ck herself... and I was considered a "goody goody nerd" at my school, valedictorian, Ivy bound, and all that.

A generation before, my father and mother grew their hair long, burned their bras (not my dad!), refused to call their parents' friends "Mr. & Mrs.", told their parents outright that all of their values were "establishment," "square" and "fascist", and generally treated their parents with disdain. My father and his father got into fistfights over things like my father's getting thrown out of his high school graduation for wearing an anti-nuclear weapons armband.

A generation before _that, _the same grandfather who used to beat up my father for being a hippy used to openly defy his immigrant father by eating non-kosher foods in front of him, refusing to go to synagogue every day and playing jazz records in the house. They didn't speak for about 10 years starting when my grandfather was 14, because he made it very clear to my great-grandfather that he thought Orthodox Judaism was a dumb hangover from the old country.... Talk about lack of respect .   And those battles - with youthful rejection of old-country values were going on all over America back then, not just in Jewish households.

And if you want to talk about youthful violence, the stories that my grandfather used to tell me about inter-ethnic gang wars (the Irish kids. v. the Italian kids v. the Jewish kids) on the streets of Brooklyn in the teens and the 20s makes _everything_ I've heard of since pale in comparison. They _really_ beat each other up.

I suspect that kids _as a generalized whole_ have always been pretty similar.


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## .   1

mirx said:


> I do not know what a soup kitchen is.


A place where food is given to poor people.



mirx said:


> Because I am not part of that group anymore.


Now we may be getting to the nub of the opinion.



mirx said:


> I do not hate kids, and I want that to be clear, I just happen to notice how enormously different they behave to when I was a kid.


Just to clarify the issue could you indicte how long this phenomenon has taken for you to notice?  How many years since you were a kid and acting normally to now being an adult and noticing kids acting abnormally?

.,,


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## Bonjules

It is, of course, a good thing that this previously 'accepted' violence in upbringing/schooling is not accepted any more ( there still is a lot, in some places more- violence agaist kids).
But children still need someone to bring them up, somebody to be there as a positive experience ( to show by example how to treat otheres with love and respect) and to counterbalance the occasional need for (non-violent) correction or disciplining. In industrialized societies, there often is nobody around. And when you finally roll in, exhausted ('the dog won't even get up from the sofa anymore'): Who wants to waste or burden those precious times/moments with 'negative stuff', hear about problems or discipline the child? So nothing much gets done, either way. And the child is angry, rightly so.


----------



## winklepicker

Are children disrespectful these days? 

Yes, of course. They always have been. If children accepted what their parents said, the world would never change. Thank goodness children are neither credulous or as jaded as old fogeys like me. I _know_ I can't change the world: children haven't discovered that yet. Hooray!


----------



## loladamore

. said:


> It is entirely possible that this is what has been said by each generation of grumpy old boors ever since Adam was a lad.


 
I don't know about Adam, but I quite like this quote:

"Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers." 

*Socrates* (quite some time ago, I gather)


----------



## cuchuflete

I used to live in a large, suburban town not far from NY City.  After my sons were born, I began to notice some of the neighborhood teenagers, and imagine what my boys would be like when they reached that age.
The local youths wore what to me were strange clothes, and they had some odd hairstyles.  When I got to know them I discovered that the great majority were very nice young people.  A few were jerks.

My sons grew to that age, and wore funny clothes and had some intriguing hairstyles.  They were nice people.
Now my sons are grown, and I live in a tiny hamlet, hours away from any large city.  The youth of today wear
very strange clothes, which I am used to.  They have piercings and tatoos, which I am used to.  Most all of those I have met and got to know are very nice young people.  A few are not.

When I was a child, most of my schoolmates were very nice people. A few were not.  

If a massive sea change in behavior has taken place, I must have had the good fortune to always live somewhere else.  The little boy who lives next door honors me (or takes advantage of me...if you are of a cynical bent) by coming over to ask me to play ball with him.  He says please.  When I give him a new bat, and there is no other adult around to hear him, he says thank you.  All but one of the other kids in the neighborhood acts about the same.  The one who doesn't seems to be imitating his father, who is a 3%er also.

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.


----------



## mirx

> A place where food is given to poor people.


That's what I understood from the beginning, but what do children have to do with soup kitchens? In my society some schools have, some don't, but how does this affect a child?



> Now we may be getting to the nub of the opinion.


that's a joke


> Just to clarify the issue could you indicte how long this phenomenon has taken for you to notice? How many years since you were a kid and acting normally to now being an adult and noticing kids acting abnormally?


If you pay a little attention to my first posts you'll get the answer.



> Loladamore
> "Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers."
> 
> *Socrates* (quite some time ago, I gather)


 
I couldn't agree more to this.


----------



## .   1

mirx said:


> That's what I understood from the beginning, but what do children have to do with soup kitchens? In my society some schools have, some don't, but how does this affect a child?


I was referring to the fact that some kids give up their time to work in soup kitchens.  Another random act of kindness that goes unreported.



mirx said:


> that's a joke


Nope.  An observation.  You are not a young person any more.



mirx said:


> If you pay a little attention to my first posts you'll get the answer.


So I will guess that this phenomonon is of the past 10 years or so.
Do you have a theory as to this sudden change in behaviour by children?



mirx said:


> I couldn't agree more to this.


I really have to think that this was an ironic comment.

.,,


----------



## mirx

. said:


> I was referring to the fact that some kids give up their time to work in soup kitchens. Another random act of kindness that goes unreported.
> 
> 
> 
> So unreported that I havent't heard of it. Here it would be more likely that chldren are punished and so have to "give up" their time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. An observation. You are not a young person any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was MY joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I will guess that this phenom*e*non is of the past 10 years or so.
> Do you have a theory as to this sudden change in behaviour by children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are too many things involved, some have already been exposed by other foreros (as), lack of attention, fill with gifts the parent's abssence,and many more.
> And *this* phenomenon, happened to *these* kids in the last 10 years. Of course similar phenomena has happened to similar kids throughout history, and it is here where I agree with Socrates.
> 
> I have NEVER said that we all were saints an is just the kids from now who misbehave, all I said is that these kids act more disrespecfully than we did -not meaning that we weren't disrespectful-.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really have to think that this was an ironic comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you'll have to think twice.
Click to expand...


----------



## Poetic Device

Oh, kids today are horrible!  There is no respect for anyone,including themselves.  For example, before I had my daughter I went on a little trip to a nearby "city".  During my travels I saw this girl that could not have been more than twelve that was dressed like the run-of-the-mill street walker, and she was on her cell phone saying, "&^$* Mom!  You're a &*^& ^%&#$!  It really sickens and disheartens me.



. said:


> Kids today are exactly as wonderful as their parents.
> 
> .,,


 
This is true, but I have to put my two cents in...

I *KNOW* I am nothing like my mother (and trust me that is a good thing), and the same goes for a few of my friends.  I would tend to think where we are better than the parents, there has to be at least one person in the world that is worse than their 'rents.


----------



## luis masci

Poetic Device said:


> Oh, kids today are horrible! There is no respect for anyone,including themselves. For example, before I had my daughter I went on a little trip to a nearby "city". During my travels I saw this girl that could not have been more than twelve that was dressed like the run-of-the-mill street walker, and she was on her cell phone saying, "&^$* Mom! You're a &*^& ^%&#$! It really sickens and disheartens me.


Oh my goodness!!! If nowadays kids in USA have this kind of behavior, it’s scaring to think some of them will be the future presidents of the most powerful country in the world.
Well…  thinking it twice the situation will be not quite different than now with the current president, will it be?


----------



## cuchuflete

luis masci said:


> Oh my goodness!!! If nowadays kids in USA have this kind of behavior, it’s scaring to think some of them will be the future presidents of the most powerful country in the world.
> Well…  thinking it twice the situation will be not quite different than now with the current president, will it be?



And let us *not* investigate whether the following were well-behaved, well-spoken, respectful children who did what their parents told them to do-  Videla, Viola, Galtieri and Bignone  

We might decide to have a healthy respect for bratty children.


----------



## .   1

Nope.  They must have been little goody two shoes.
A perusal pf these forums reveals that it is apparently only American politicians who are meanspirited and corrupt.

.,,


----------



## Brioche

. said:


> Nope.  They must have been little goody two shoes.
> A perusal pf these forums reveals that it is apparently only American politicians who are mean-spirited and corrupt.
> 
> .,,



I didn't realise that Paul Keating, Phillip Ruddock and Mark Latham were American.


----------



## Rick Shaw

Respect is earned.  Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society.  Respect is earned based on how you treat other people.  It is *not* more complicated than that.  

Regards,

R.S.


----------



## .   1

Perfectly said R.S.

.,,


----------



## Veggy

Rick Shaw said:


> Respect is earned. Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society. Respect is earned based on how you treat other people. It is *not* more complicated than that.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> R.S.


 
Hi Rick can you explain exactly what you mean? Because it seems to me that you are saying that anyone who is not able to give or show respect (like a small child for example) does not deserve it.


----------



## Sallyb36

Veggy said:


> Hi Rick can you explain exactly what you mean? Because it seems to me that you are saying that anyone who is not able to give or show respect (like a small child for example) does not deserve it.



Everyone no matter how small can show respect, they only need teaching how to.


----------



## TrentinaNE

Rick Shaw said:


> Respect is earned. Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society. Respect is earned based on how you treat other people. It is *not* more complicated than that.


At a personal level, I would agree. But I think we're also discussing basic civility here. Just because someone hasn't yet earned my respect doesn't mean I feel entitled to treat him or her rudely. As a practical matter, even when others are rude toward me, I find it often disarms them to respond politely.  But I fear I'm venturing off the topic here...

Elisabetta


----------



## TRG

Mores do change over time, but I think it's mostly for the better. To think otherwise is to believe that the humanity is not now and never has made any moral progress. This is silly. The young people I encounter, which isn't very many, seem very polite and respectful. I am often amazed at the maturity that young people demonstrate, certainly more than I did at the same age. So my answer to the question is no.


----------



## Poetic Device

Rick Shaw said:


> Respect is earned. Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society. Respect is earned based on how you treat other people. It is *not* more complicated than that.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> R.S.


 
This IS well said, but are you referring to the parents deservin respect from their children?  If so, do you really think that is fair to say?  How can young progeny define respect and decide who deserves it and who does not?


----------



## Veggy

Sallyb36 said:


> Everyone no matter how small can show respect, they only need teaching how to.


 
This brings us back to my first post in this thread where I asked *what is* respect. It seems to me, nobody answered. To Sallyb I'd say that not the entire world have identical values.


----------



## Sallyb36

Respect is consideration.


----------



## french4beth

i think that Rick said it best. An infant may not be capable of understanding "respect", of course, and it may be difficult for a toddler to understand, but I believe that respect _must_ be earned. I would still be polite to someone that I don't respect, out of common courtesy, but that's about it; I would avoid much interaction with such a person as much as possible.


----------



## .   1

Question:
Are children disrespectful these days?

Answer:


Rick Shaw said:


> Respect is earned. Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society. Respect is earned based on how you treat other people. It is *not* more complicated than that.


 
Response:  
Confusion.

I do not understand the confusion.  In the context of the question this answer can only mean one thing.  
If children are disrespectful to adults it is as a result of the actions of the adults that did not cause the children to respect the adults.

Maybe I am wrong.

.,,


----------



## maxiogee

Poetic Device said:


> This IS well said, but are you referring to the parents deservin respect from their children?  If so, do you really think that is fair to say?  How can young progeny define respect and decide who deserves it and who does not?



Children very quickly learn who to respect. 
The human infant may well be hard wired to appreciate love and fairness, honesty and integrity.
Watch any infants in their first interaction with a bunch of non-familial adults - say the neighbours on their street. They very quickly comne to kbnow who they 'like' and who they don't - and these judgements are often quite sound.
Also, look at the interactions of families in situations such as a supermarket when the big weekly shopping is being done and the parents are trying to mind the children and do the shopping. You can tell which kids fear their parents and which resepct them, and also you can tell which ones iknow the limits they can push their behaviour to.

I don't think that a child automaitcally owes respect to a parent.


----------



## Poetic Device

maxiogee said:


> Children very quickly learn who to respect.
> The human infant may well be hard wired to appreciate love and fairness, honesty and integrity.
> Watch any infants in their first interaction with a bunch of non-familial adults - say the neighbours on their street. They very quickly comne to kbnow who they 'like' and who they don't - and these judgements are often quite sound.
> Also, look at the interactions of families in situations such as a supermarket when the big weekly shopping is being done and the parents are trying to mind the children and do the shopping. You can tell which kids fear their parents and which resepct them, and also you can tell which ones iknow the limits they can push their behaviour to.
> 
> I don't think that a child automaitcally owes respect to a parent.


 
Nor do I, Maxi.  However, you also have to take into consideration what happens when the kids go to school.  If Sally sees Alice get away with treating her mother/father horribly, she is going to wonder if she can get away with it.  Depending on what kind of people Sally's parents are, they will either act accordingly or let her do it for one reason or another.  how they repremand Sally will have a big affect on whether Sally tries it again or not as well.  Ya know?


----------



## Etcetera

Sallyb36 said:


> Everyone no matter how small can show respect, they only need teaching how to.


I agree with you, Sally!
I've heard a lot of complaints about young people who don't offer a seat in the metro to elderly people. And many answer to these complaints that it's the mothers of these young people who are to blame: they didn't teach their children good manners when they were small, and here's the result.


----------



## Poetic Device

I can agree with that.  (At least to an extent...)


----------



## TrentinaNE

Etcetera said:


> And many answer to these complaints that it's the *parents *of these young people who are to blame: they didn't teach their children good manners when they were small, and here's the result.


Why let fathers off the hook?  

Elisabetta


----------



## Etcetera

TrentinaNE said:


> Why let fathers off the hook?
> 
> Elisabetta


Don't know. I only report what I hear actually, and it's always mothers who are blamed. Maybe because here in Russia, it's mostly mothers who look after the children and teach them everyting they can't be taught at schools.


----------



## ireney

Aren't we confusing disrespect with lack of manners? I happen to know a few people whose manners can make you cringe (they make me cringe occasionally) but who do show respect to others. I also know (quite a few unfortunately) people with nigh impecable manners who are truly disrespectful, although most of the times they can get away with it since the patina of nice manners covers it up in the eyes of some.

So, are childrend disrespectful more than in the past? Not really no, as a whole. They only thing I would add is that there _seems_ to be an increase (of what size I've never bothered to search) of people who feel that they owe respect to no one and nobody. There are of course reasons for that and we can blame all sorts of people and situations but that's -almost- another matter.


----------



## Veggy

I think that if the children of 20 years ago seem to many of us more respectful than those today, it might be that they were simply more afraid of punishment by parents, teachers or whoever and fear has nothing to do with respect. Today young people know a lot more, are more open-hearted and I notice that often they say the simple truth which is not nice for some adults to hear. 
The posts I have read here of adults saying respect must be earned, that means  the adult chooses to whom his respect will go (which has nothing to do with friendship) make me wonder *how* those adults for whom respect is a sort of give and take game or blackmail will teach their children to respect others. Is there respect for themselves in the first place? It is widely accepted by now, I think, that children learn most by means of example, only secondarily from words.
As Ireney says rightly aren't we confusing respect with bad manners and I will add with lack of hypocrisy? Or with the mere fact that they just do what they have been taught?


----------



## .   1

I really think that people are misunderstanding the word respect.

Respect is not imposed.  Fear is imposed.

Respect is earned.  There is no other way.  

Parents teach their children to be respectful of themselves and others by treating the children with respect.

As you respect so shall you be respected.

.,,


----------



## loladamore

ireney said:


> So, are childrend disrespectful more than in the past? Not really no, as a whole. They only thing I would add is that there _seems_ to be an increase (of what size I've never bothered to search) of people who feel that they owe respect to no one and nobody.


 
Talking of numbers of people, I wonder if one of the reasons behind the "nowadays" line of argument is the simple fact that there are more of us now than before. There might be exactly the same percentage of disrespecful children, violent crime, hateful and spiteful people, etc, but there is a greater quantity of them all, so the problem _seems_ worse.

Perhaps there were always 2 out of ten children who were terribly disrespectful; the difference is that we now come into contact with hundreds of children and young people instead of a handful of neighbours. Add to that the effects that television and film have on our perception of what children/young people are like these days, and it seems that there are hundreds, nay, thousands of badly-behaved and thoroughly disrespectful young people around. Not like that in my day, eh? Well, no, there were a lot less of us. But I'm betting that things were exactly the same proportionately speaking. 

We humans have needed to be reminded that we should "honour our father and mother" (for "honour" read "respect") for about 3000 years, that we know of at least. If children/we had been perfect there would have been no need for any commandments. Seems like we never learn. 

I don't think children have got any worse; they just haven't got any better.


----------



## Sallyb36

Veggy said:


> *I think that if the children of 20 years ago seem to many of us more respectful than those today, it might be that they were simply more afraid of punishment by parents, teachers or whoever and fear has nothing to do with respect. Today young people know a lot more, are more open-hearted and I notice that often they say the simple truth which is not nice for some adults to hear. *The posts I have read here of adults saying respect must be earned, that means  the adult chooses to whom his respect will go (which has nothing to do with friendship) make me wonder *how* those adults for whom respect is a sort of give and take game or blackmail will teach their children to respect others. Is there respect for themselves in the first place? It is widely accepted by now, I think, that children learn most by means of example, only secondarily from words.
> As Ireney says rightly aren't we confusing respect with bad manners and I will add with lack of hypocrisy? Or with the mere fact that they just do what they have been taught?



I agree with this, but also believe that the current lack of respect may have something to do with the fact that children are being born to children more and more these days.  There are more cases of young girls - 16 -18 having babies, sometimes even younger, whereas in the past the babies would either have not been born or would have been adopted.  People having babies too young has to have some effect on society, as the mothers themselves are not much more than children, and not developed enough to show another peson how to live and respect others.  A lot of young mothers do not even have respect for themselves.


----------



## maxiogee

Sallyb36 said:


> I agree with this, but also believe that the current lack of respect may have something to do with the fact that children are being born to children more and more these days. There are more cases of young girls - 16 -18 having babies, sometimes even younger, whereas in the past the babies would either have not been born or would have been adopted. People having babies too young has to have some effect on society, as the mothers themselves are not much more than children, and not developed enough to show another peson how to live and respect others. A lot of young mothers do not even have respect for themselves.


 
Are there "more and more" children being born to children these days?

This site seems to contradict that - for the UK, at least, and this one (go to Table 2) shows that the age at childirth in the EU is slightly higer than the in the UK, so I disagree with your generalisation.
What may be trus is that 'children' who become pregnant are more visible nowadays as they are not hidden away at home, or even sent away from home, until the child is born.


----------



## coconutpalm

I think this is a widespread phenomenon all over the world. 
In China, firstly there're the post-80's, refering to people born in the 1980s (I'm one of them) who have made the older people frown upon them, and now there're these post-90's who make the rest of us, including the post-80's, scowl at them 

Perhaps no generation will not look down upon the next generations, but it's pointed out (of course by experts, so naturally the elder generations) that these post-80's and 90's are especially naughty, disrepctful, ignorant of traditions, etc. etc. To a great extent, I agree with them. However, it also depends on how you define these adjectives and what's your view wehn facing a globalizing world.

Someone ever said that post-80's don't really care about the elder generations' views of them because they feel confident enough to think (or to know???) that they are THE brandnew generation which is the biggest difference from their predecessors while the latter did care about their parents' views, and in this way or that way followed in the footsteps of THEIR predecessors generally.

Yet I think it's indeed a problem that many of us (the post-80's) and the post-90's have really forgot how to respect others, not only their parents and the elders, but people in general. And Chinese usually say: if you don't know how to respect others, you really can't obtain others' respect for YOU.


----------



## Veggy

Sallyb36 said:


> but also believe that the current lack of respect may have something to do with the fact that children are being born to children more and more these days. There are more cases of young girls - 16 -18 having babies, sometimes even younger, whereas in the past the babies would either have not been born or would have been adopted. People having babies too young has to have some effect on society, as the mothers themselves are not much more than children, and not developed enough to show another peson how to live and respect others. A lot of young mothers do not even have respect for themselves.


 
So, Sallyb, you think it is a matter of age? Apart from the fact that maxiogee rightly pointed out from other web site that the information you hold might not be universally accepted, how do you explain that children often show lots of respect while adults don't? If what you stated in the post I'm quoting was right, the only lack of respect should be found in younger people.
I beleive that we can only teach(?) what we know and that it would be better to clarify as much as possible what we mean by respect before judging.


----------



## mirx

Veggy said:


> So, Sallyb, you think it is a matter of age? Apart from the fact that maxiogee rightly pointed out from other web site that the information you hold might not be universally accepted, how do you explain that children often show lots of respect while adults don't? If what you stated in the post I'm quoting was right, the only lack of respect should be found in younger people.
> I beleive that we can only teach(?) what we know and that it would be better to clarify as much as possible what we mean by respect before judging.


 



> Originally Posted by *Sallyb36*
> 
> 
> but also believe that the current lack of respect *may* have something to do


 
I also agree with coconutpalm's contribution.

I had opted out of this thread but Sally's comment shows a lot of true, it also looks like it's mostly americans who support that children are disrespectful this days.

And I must say, that based on the concept I have of respect, children are indeed disrespectful, or if you want this way, at least much less tolerant than we used to be adults' pedanteries.


----------



## badgrammar

Maxiogee's got a good handle on the situation, I defer to him for all my opinions on the subject.  Not only is he correct and he is speaking from the wisdom of his years, but he is speaking from the heart...

People have always disparaged on "kids these days".  They have also always forgotten that kids are kids, and in spite of it all they (most) often grow into caring, socially grounded and productive adults.  I have two of my own, and while they may occasionally appear a but uncooth or disobedient to others, I am quite assured that as adults, they will know the difference between right and wrong.  And they will know what respect for others, for their environment and for the greater good means.  

My problem isn't with a lack of respect from children, it is with a lack of respect and good manners from adults, in whom, atleast at this time, I find the rudist and most abhorent behaviors (I'm talking about real life, not in this forum).  

Geez, the other day  I watched my 10 year old wait atleast 30 seconds (that's long for a kid, takes some forethought) just to galantly hold the door open for a woman and her companions, as we have taught him.  His effort was totally ignored; not one of them even bothered to say "merci", or even nod in his direction.   That kind of rudeness can be excused from a child.  Adults should know better.  

The respect we give to children is a mirror of the respect they owe to us.


----------



## gaer

Rick Shaw said:


> Respect is earned. Respect is not given freely based on age, income, or position in society. Respect is earned based on how you treat other people. It is *not* more complicated than that.


I agree, but the key word is "freely".

In a perfect world, people would never be forced to "show respect" when they feel none, so all respect would be given freely. 

However, because people can be forced to *pretend* to respect people and things they do not really respect—power does this—it becomes very complicated, very misleading.

I've taught for more than 30 years. If I force kids to do what I tell them, using fear and power, I can get what appears to be respect from all of them, as long as they are with me, where I am in control. Perhaps through using such tactics, some may eventually truly respect me, but that's a very dangerous "game" to play.

Without power/fear, it's much harder to get what I want; some kids are so conditioned to pretend to respect people in authority, it takes me years to find out if the respect I appear to be receiving is freely given.

The moment you _*give*_ people respect—a very different thing—everything changes. If you only give people respect when they have earned it, you throw away the opportunity to teach by example.

Giving respect is a great risk. You may or may not get it back.

I hear horror stories on a daily basis from teachers who face insurmountable problems in schools that have to deal with social problems unimaginable a few decades ago.

I also hear amazing stories about children and young adults who now have advantages that were equally unimaginable a few decades ago—sometimes from the same teachers.

We seem to live in a world of extremes.

If anything, I would say that the world has never been so good and that it is never been so bad. It's the same as ever, only more so.

*It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity…*

Dickens might have said that yesterday, and in present tense.

Gaer


----------



## badgrammar

Yeah, I don't agree that respect should have to be earned.  That would mean I don't respect people I don't know.  I don't respect that little od lady walking down the street or that kid in the park until they have earned my respect?  Nah....

Don't you think you should respect each and every individual from the start?  I'd say respect for others is square one.  From there, depending on the person's behavior, I may lose that respect for them.  But the whole idea that respect must be earned sounds really really weird to me.  I sure as heck can't teach my kids that, now can I?


----------



## Sallyb36

badgrammar said:


> Yeah, I don't agree that respect should have to be earned.  That would mean I don't respect people I don't know.  I don't respect that little od lady walking down the street or that kid in the park until they have earned my respect?  Nah....
> 
> Don't you think you should respect each and every individual from the start?  I'd say respect for others is square one.  From there, depending on the person's behavior, I may lose that respect for them.  But the whole idea that respect must be earned sounds really really weird to me.  I sure as heck can't teach my kids that, now can I?



I agree with you here Badgrammar, I think that respect should be given until someone shows you that they are unworthy of it.


----------



## Sallyb36

Veggy said:


> So, Sallyb, you think it is a matter of age? Apart from the fact that maxiogee rightly pointed out from other web site that the information you hold might not be universally accepted, how do you explain that children often show lots of respect while adults don't? If what you stated in the post I'm quoting was right, the only lack of respect should be found in younger people.
> I beleive that we can only teach(?) what we know and that it would be better to clarify as much as possible what we mean by respect before judging.




not entirely a matter of age, but yes, I do think that young people having children do not have the encessary life skills to teach their children all they should be taching them.  I have seen lots of cases where young parents do not show enough interest in their children.


----------



## luis masci

coconutpalm said:


> Yet I think it's indeed a problem that many of us (the post-80's) and the post-90's have really forgot how to respect others, not only their parents and the elders, but people in general. And Chinese usually say: if you don't know how to respect others, you really can't obtain others' respect for YOU.


I find all these post interesting and worth to read. But this one called my attention in special way, because shows us how much the globalization is gained every place of the planet. 
Is not weird to hear similar comments even about China? It indeed is rare to me.


----------



## Poetic Device

ireney said:


> Aren't we confusing disrespect with lack of manners? I happen to know a few people whose manners can make you cringe (they make me cringe occasionally) but who do show respect to others...


 
Well, respect is defined partly as obedience and actions that are done to please another person.  So, isn't that a fine line there?  Where do you draw it?


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## Poetic Device

Sallyb36 said:


> I agree with this, but also believe that the current lack of respect may have something to do with the fact that children are being born to children more and more these days. There are more cases of young girls - 16 -18 having babies, sometimes even younger, whereas in the past the babies would either have not been born or would have been adopted. People having babies too young has to have some effect on society, as the mothers themselves are not much more than children, and not developed enough to show another peson how to live and respect others. A lot of young mothers do not even have respect for themselves.


 
Yeah, not for nothing, I can't see how that is possible...  I know in the U.S. (on the East Coast at least) a 17 year old can just walk into an abortion clinic and have the "sickness"taken out of her.  Based on the knowledge of thatI cannot see how what you are saying is possible.


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## Sallyb36

According to Maxiogees figures this is no longer the case, but there was a time when it seemed that teenage girls here were just having babies to opt out of the education system and to be housed by the council, and to receive a (minimal) income from the government.  There were a lot of teenage pregnancies around here about 10-15 years ago.


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## Joca

I don’t know how many of you ride buses. When I was a small boy, my mother would exhort me to offer my seat to the elderly. Now that I am in my fifties, I will only do so if the bus is crowded and it is a very weak or disabled person. But I seldom see parents telling their small children to stand up and offer their places. And even more rarely will children or teenagers for that matter do it on their own. I find it almost outrageous that small children will take up a whole large seat as they please, while the old must stand. Does this happen in your area? Do you find it to be one more sign of how children are being more and more spoiled these days?


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## Etcetera

I take buses only too often, in my opinion (and I've grown to dislike them). 
To say the truth, I think that small children (under 5 years old) have as strong right to sit as elderly people do. But I find it really disgusting when a 10-year-old boy sits in front of an elderly woman!


> I find it almost outrageous that small children will take up a whole large seat as they please


That only happens here if there's planty of free seats in the bus. Otherwise, the mother would sit with her child on her knees.


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## Brioche

Joca said:


> I don’t know how many of you ride buses. When I was a small boy, my mother would exhort me to offer my seat to the elderly.
> 
> But I seldom see parents telling their small children to stand up and offer their places. And even more rarely will children or teenagers for that matter do it on their own. I find it almost outrageous that small children will take up a whole large seat as they please, while the old must stand. Does this happen in your area? Do you find it to be one more sign of how children are being more and more spoiled these days?



Sounds much like like the situation here!

Once upon a time there were notices in the bus which said that children travelling on concessional fares were to give up their seats for adults.


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## maxiogee

In Ireland now it is senior citizens who travel on a concession - free travel - and they refuse to give up their seats to anyone - pregnant, infirm or worn out from a day's labour 
They use the buses to go two stops!


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## Poetic Device

Careful, it's starting to sound like *this.*


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## mmounties

I think the original post confuses *obedience*, *respect* and *manners*. It is important to note the difference:

In times past, children's and other people of little "importance" obedience was enforced by punishment. The fact that kids used to jump at the command of elders does not mean they actually had respect for their elders. There were scared! And those who weren't "punished" themselves, certainly saw it in their friends and peers. I do not it is desirable for a society to scare pools of members into obedience.

Manners are behavioral conventions that allow people to live with each other without ticking each other off every minute and a half. Whether we say "Hello" when we enter a room or thank out neighbor for a package they accepted for us while we were gone has nothing to do with whether we respect them.

Respect is something that must be earned. If my children show me respect it is something that I have earned and, to my way of thinking, a LOT more desirable than mere obedience. It is proof that they can, and do, actually think on their own. And *that*, my friends, is *the* fundamental requirement for the kind of citizens we all need our children to be and become.


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## Joca

Etcetera said:


> I take buses only too often, in my opinion (and I've grown to dislike them).
> To say the truth, I think that small children (under 5 years old) have as strong right to sit as elderly people do. But I find it really disgusting when a 10-year-old boy sits in front of an elderly woman!
> 
> That only happens here if there's planty of free seats in the bus. Otherwise, the mother would sit with her child on her knees.



You are right about the rights of children under 5. But in this case, if they are not too heavy, the best approach is really for them to sit on their parent's knees. I often do that with my nine-year-old daughter.


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## ghoti

Joca said:


> You are right about the rights of children under 5. But in this case, if they are not too heavy, the best approach is really for them to sit on their parent's knees. I often do that with my nine-year-old daughter.


 
In the New York City transit system many years ago, there were notices posted on buses (and I think on subways), when fares were not charged for children under 5: "Little enough to ride for free? Little enough to ride your knee."


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