# Does vocal Russian really drop certain sounds in words' spellings?



## C.S.Hy

It's taught that the sounds т in счастливо and л in солнце are dropped by native Russian speakers.

Is it factual?

If somebody did pronounce the two sounds what a native Russian speaker would think or feel?

I don't feel there is quite a lot difference between dropping the sounds or not, incidentally.


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## Şafak

I say: щясливо.


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## Awwal12

C.S.Hy said:


> Is it factual?


It is. 





C.S.Hy said:


> If somebody did pronounce the two sounds what a native Russian speaker would think or feel?


Well, сча[стл]ивый would sound weird (there is no stop in that word and its sudden appearance is difficult to miss). Со[лнц]е might remain unnoticed.


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## Vovan

C.S.Hy said:


> счастливо


Just in case: there are two _счастливо_: _счастли́во _(_colloq._ bye!) and _сча́стливо_ (happily). 
They, however, are pronounced identically with respect to what you've asked about.


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## Awwal12

Vovan said:


> Just in case: there are two _счастливо_: _счастли́во _(_colloq._ bye!) and _сча́стливо_ (happily).


Actually "happily" may be both _сча́стливо_ and _счастли́во_, even though the first variant seems predominant. "Bye" is only _счастли́во_, of course.


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## Tower of Babel

Так, если я правильно понимаю разницу в ударении:
_Дитя́ счастли́во._​*но*:
_Дитя́ сча́стливо игра́ет._​
And as for "солнце", I assume that the omission of the 'л' sound also occurs in "солнцестояние", but NOT in "солнышко" and "солнечная система"?

My theory is that the omission of the 'т' sound in счастливо and the 'л' sound in солнце occurs because of the difficulty in pronouncing three consecutive consonants: -стл- in счастливо and -лнц- in солнце.


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## Awwal12

Tower of Babel said:


> _Дитя́ счастли́во._


Again, it's a possible but highly atypical position of stress.
There is no difference between the adverb and the short neuter adjective in that regard, if you mean that. Only the interjection "bye" is different.


Tower of Babel said:


> And as for "солнце", I assume that the omission of the 'л' sound also occurs in "солнцестояние", but NOT in "солнышко" and "солнечная система"?


Yes. If the sequence -лнц- is disrupted, /л/ returns back.


Tower of Babel said:


> because of the difficulty in pronouncing three consecutive consonants: -стл- in счастливо and -лнц- in солнце


That seems most likely, of course.
/Т/ is also regularly omitted in the clusters -стн- and -здн- (честный ['ʨɛsnəɪ̯], поздний ['pozʲnʲə̟ɪ̯], etc.).


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## Tower of Babel

Awwal12 said:


> There is no difference between the adverb and the short neuter adjective in that regard, if you mean that.


Oh, thanks for the clarification!  I *thought* that the adverb and short neuter adjective had *different* stress.


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## Tower of Babel

Awwal12 said:


> /Т/ is also regularly omitted in the clusters -стн- and -здн- (честный ['ʨɛsnəɪ̯], поздний ['pozʲnʲə̟ɪ̯], etc.).


Thank you @Awwal12.  I did not know about these pronunciations.


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## nizzebro

Tower of Babel said:


> My theory is that the omission of the 'т' sound in счастливо and the 'л' sound in солнце occurs because of the difficulty in pronouncing three consecutive consonants: -стл- in счастливо and -лнц- in солнце.


That is true for солнце, but as for  '-cтли-',  I suppose that the problem is that, after producing 'стл'-', it is difficult to raise the back of your tongue (which is needed for /и/ ).  But in e.g. 'костлявый', /т/ is not fully dropped (even though sounds incomplete).


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## Tower of Babel

Thank you for the information @nizzebro.  Yes, I'm sure the situation is much more complicated than my simple observation.

And then there are words like здравствуйте with *four* consecutive consonants -вств-, so English speakers are glad to learn that the first 'в' is omitted when saying that word!


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## Awwal12

Tower of Babel said:


> And then there are words like здравствуйте with *four* consecutive consonants -вств-, so English speakers are glad to learn that


It's omitted indeed, but English speakers have troubles here mostly because they tend to articulate the labiodentals incorrectly. Russian [v] and [f] are retracted (the point of articulation is the back surface of the lower lip), which considerably reduces articulatory efforts in the consonant clusters involving them. Cf. ше́фствовать, where we do have full [-fstv-] ([-vstv-] is normally impossible because of the unavoidable de-voicing before [st] anyway).


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## Ruukr

C.S.Hy said:


> It's taught that the sounds т in счастливо and л in солнце are dropped by native Russian speakers.
> 
> Is it factual?
> 
> If somebody did pronounce the two sounds what a native Russian speaker would think or feel?
> 
> I don't feel there is quite a lot difference between dropping the sounds or not, incidentally.


 Actually, nobody even pay attention - how you pronounce, because no any other meaning at all... 
(i.e. absolutely the same, or let say it is "monopenisualno" ).


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## Şafak

Excuse me? Russian pronunciation is no joke and definitely poses a great challenge to foreigners, especially, to those whose mother tongue is very different from Russian. Telling a foreigner that it’s not important what the word actually sounds like in Russian and what it’s supposed to sound like in Russian is, mildly saying, a bad piece of advice. Счастливый by no means is pronounced the way it’s written. What’s the point of learning foreign languages if your pronunciation is “something else” and doesn’t come close to the actual standard, I mean the way native speakers speak? Pronunciation does matter.

This website is a serious platform. «As long as you’re understandable, you’re good» isn’t the motto all of us share here.


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## Ruukr

Şafak said:


> Excuse me? Russian pronunciation is no joke and definitely poses a great challenge to foreigners, especially, to those whose mother tongue is very different from Russian. Telling a foreigner that it’s not important what the word actually sounds like in Russian and what it’s supposed to sound like in Russian is, mildly saying, a bad piece of advice. Счастливый by no means is pronounced the way it’s written. What’s the point of learning foreign languages if your pronunciation is “something else” and doesn’t come close to the actual standard, I mean the way native speakers speak? Pronunciation does matter.
> 
> This website is a serious platform. «As long as you’re understandable, you’re good» isn’t the motto all of us share here.


я повторяю на русском - это на слух неразличимо!!! 
Хоть во Владивостоке, хоть в Одессе!


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## Şafak

You’re literally saying that it doesn’t matter whether you enunciate every letter in the word счастливый or not; the word would sound same to you either way, apparently. Do you realize it’s just not true in so many ways?


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## Ruukr

Şafak said:


> You’re literally saying that it doesn’t matter whether you enunciate every letter in the word счастливый or not; the word would sound same to you either way, apparently. Do you realize it’s not true in so many ways?


Поверь мне... В этом слове это так!


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## nizzebro

Ruukr said:


> я повторяю на русском - это на слух неразличимо!!!


Вопрос был задан не о том, различимо ли это на слух для нас или нет. Людей интересует, как произносить слова. Когда они освоят произношение полностью, тогда и для них это будет неразличимо.


Ruukr said:


> Actually, nobody even pay attention - how you pronounce, because no any other meaning at all...


Until somebody tries to pronounce those sounds clearly. With соЛнце, they likely will simply fail, but счасТливо would sound a little harsh, and здраВствуйте would be pretty funny.


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