# -i Durumu / Accusative



## Orkide

Dear all

In the chapter about the accusative state in my course it says that objects like kim, kimler, hangisi, nere, nereler, take the accusative state.

Ex: Konserde kimi gördün?

But a bit further in the course I found this sentence: Sen Londra'yken, neler yaptın? 

Isn't that a contradiction then? Following that rule, shouldn't it be "neleri"?

What do you think?

Thanks!


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## Rallino

No, that sounds really weird. Absence of accusative shows us that the person is asked what he did "in general". And the plural "neler" (which looks absurd to foreigners, due to the plural 'what': _*whats?*_) doesn't mean that the listener is expected to state more than one thing. It is almost all the time used to ask general stuff, something like:_ 'Tell me all about it!_'

So do we never put it in accusative? Very rarely. (Only when the person is expected to give more than one answer.)

As an example, let's say that you and I went to a job meeting. And they requested that I bring them some documents. After the meeting, I can ask you:

-Benim görüşmem çok parlak geçmedi, birkaç belge getirmeliymişim. Senden neler*i* istediler? 
(My meeting wasn't so good, they said I must bring some documents. What (*exactly*) did they ask you to do?)

Note that, the plural is optional here. "Senden ne istediler" would also be totally correct.



On the other hand, this singular form is very often used in accusative, in other contexts.

-Fiziği hiç anlamıyorum! (I don't understand anything about physics!)
-Tam olarak neyi anlamıyorsun fizikte? (What exactly do you not understand in physics?)

As the listener is asking for specific info, s/he uses accusative.


Is that any clear?


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## Orkide

Rallino said:


> No, that sounds really weird. Absence of accusative shows us that the person is asked what he did "in general". And the plural "neler" (which looks absurd to foreigners, due to the plural 'what': _*whats?*_) doesn't mean that the listener is expected to state more than one thing. It is almost all the time used to ask general stuff, something like:_ 'Tell me all about it!_'
> 
> So do we never put it in accusative? Very rarely. (Only when the person is expected to give more than one answer.)
> 
> As an example, let's say that you and I went to a job meeting. And they requested that I bring them some documents. After the meeting, I can ask you:
> 
> -Benim görüşmem çok parlak geçmedi, birkaç belge getirmeliymişim. Senden neler*i* istediler?
> (My meeting wasn't so good, they said I must bring some documents. What (*exactly*) did they ask you to do?)
> 
> Note that, the plural is optional here. "Senden ne istediler" would also be totally correct.
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, this singular form is very often used in accusative, in other contexts.
> 
> -Fiziği hiç anlamıyorum! (I don't understand anything about physics!)
> -Tam olarak neyi anlamıyorsun fizikte? (What exactly do you not understand in physics?)
> 
> As the listener is asking for specific info, s/he uses accusative.
> 
> 
> Is that any clear?



Thank you, your explanation is very clear! I understand.

But I take it your explanation goes for those other words as well then? 

I'll take my example again. I go to a concert and afterwards you ask me  who I have seen/met there, in a very general context. You don't know for  sure if I would meet some friends, you just ask it in general. So,  according to your explanation, it should be: "Konserde kim(ler) gördün"?

But if I would have told you that I will go to see a concert and that I  will meet people I know there, but I don't know yet which ones, you  could ask me "Konserde kimleri gördün?". Because you are sure that I  will be able to name some of our friends. 

Am I right?


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## Orkide

Rallino said:


> -Benim görüşmem çok parlak geçmedi, birkaç belge getirmeliymişim. Senden neler*i* istediler?



Why do you use "getirmeliy*miş*im"? Would it be very wrong to use -di here? 

(that -miş-tense is a tricky thing sometimes...  )


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## Rallino

Only the actual _*nouns*_, like: "kapı, güneş, insan, ..." can be objects without accusative. Because they are, sort of, '*objects'* - litterally!. You have the option to use "the nouns" in nominative or accusative. Everything else: Pronouns, question words etc HAVE TO BE in accusative when they're the object.

Amongst the question words, only *ne?* (what?) acts like the other nouns. Because "ne" , by its nature, is a question word directly related to the above nouns: _kapı, güneş,insan_. _*

What* are you showing? _With this question, I'm asking a real object._ What object are you showing?_

So, apart from "ne?", you don't have an alternative case, they all require the accusative, without depending on whether they're referred to as "general" or not.


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## Rallino

Orkide said:


> Why do you use "getirmeliy*miş*im"? Would it be very wrong to use -di here?
> 
> (that -miş-tense is a tricky thing sometimes...  )



The -miş past is called: "Indefinite past". Because you found out that something happened, thanks to someone who told you about it. Depending on the intonation, and on the context, it can mean: 
-Later I noticed that...
-Only then have I understood that...
*-Someone/they told me that...*


...birkaç belge getirmeliy*miş*im.
(_*They told me that* I must/had to bring some documents.)_

...birkaç belge getirmeliydim.
(I should have brought some documents.)


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## Orkide

Rallino, your explanations are golden! 

Thank you so much!


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