# فهموا كل الدرس / فهموا كلهم الدرس



## rarabara

hi,

can someone explain ;

what is the difference between these two sentences as appearing in the title:

1)فهموا كل الدرس
2)فهموا كلهم الدرس

I would also like to add two more sentences for comparison:

3)فهم كلهم الدرس 
4)فهم كل الدرس  



Thanks.


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## Hemza

Merhaba


rarabara said:


> 1) فهموا كل الدرس


They understood the lesson entirely (كل here refers to the lesson)


rarabara said:


> 2)فهموا كلهم الدرس


They all understood the lesson (unlike above, كلهم refers to "them", to the group of people you're talking about).


rarabara said:


> 3)فهم كلهم الدرس


I'm not sure if this is correct. It works if you replace كلهم with a subject (مبتدأ) as in فهم التلاميذ الدرس but I'm not sure it works with كلهم.


rarabara said:


> 4)فهم كل الدرس


He understood the lesson entirely (كل here again, refers to the lesson).


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## rarabara

Hemza said:


> I'm not sure if this is correct. It works if you replace كلهم with a subject (مبتدأ) as in فهم التلاميذ الدرس but I'm not sure it works with كلهم.


hi,
I think it might be correct with great probability. Because as you also may be aware about a rule which the current book I read mentions about, it says that "when a verb precedes to a plural subject, then the verb will always be singular. The verb will agree with subject only in gender."

so, to me, this sentence will likely be not incorrect.
thank you for your participation.


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## rarabara

some explanations  (general) in order to understand what about the question under this thread might be about:

when كل precedes an indefinite noun , it means "every" or "each".
when it precedes a definite (plural) noun , then it means : "all of (them)"
specifically "كل من " means "every one of"
كل can take pronouns.


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,



rarabara said:


> 1)فهموا كل الدرس
> 2)فهموا كلهم الدرس


I would say :

1) They understood the entire/whole lesson. (Ils ont compris toute la leçon).
2) They all understood the lesson. (Ils ont tous compris la leçon).

These books could interest you:

- Arabic: An Essential Grammar P174...
- A Reference Grammar of Modern Standard Arabic P228...


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,



rarabara said:


> I think it might be correct with great probability. Because as you also may be aware about a rule which the current book I read mentions about, it says that "when a verb precedes to a plural subject, then the verb will always be singular. The verb will agree with subject only in gender."


I do not know if this sentence (فهم كلهم الدرس) is correct but I wonder the pronoun (هم in كلهم) refer to whom?


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## Mahaodeh

فهم كلهم الدرس seems correct to me, it’s فهموا كلهم الدرس that doesn’t seem correct, it seems like dialect to me.

Just change the pronoun to a noun:
فهم كل الطلاب الدرس 
فهموا كل الطلاب الدرس


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## Mahaodeh

Hemza said:


> He understood the lesson entirely (كل here again, refers to the lesson).


Yes, if it were: فهمَ كلَّ الدرسِ
كل: مفعول به
الدرس: مضاف إليه

But, it can also be: فهمَ كلٌّ الدرسَ
كل: فاعل، والمضاف إليه محذوف وتقديره أحد
الدرس: مفعول به
In this case it means “each one of them understood the lesson”.


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## rarabara

Thanks to all of you under this thread writing.



Mahaodeh said:


> Just change the pronoun to a noun:
> فهم كل الطلاب الدرس
> فهموا كل الطلاب الدرس


this you wrote is perfectly ok/correct,yes.

but are you sure that ;



> فهموا كلهم الدرس that doesn’t seem correct, it seems like dialect to me.



incorrect in anyway?


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## Romeel

الطلاب فهموا الدرس
فهموا الطلاب الدرس


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## rarabara

actually, the source I read mentions something about stress ,which I have not completely understood.

that source gives the translations as below.

فهم كلهم الدرس  : All of them understood the lesson.
فهموا كلهم الدرس : _All_ of them understood the lesson.

essentially same. But for the second sentence , All is written in italic.

A NOTATION: this is MSA. I currently study only MSA.


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## Romeel

Klasik Arapça'da bir fiil özneden önce geldiğinde her zaman tekildir.

فنقول: فهم الطلاب ولا نقول فهموا الطلاب

Türkçem nasıl? zayıf değil mi


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## rarabara

alialikhalid said:


> Klasik Arapça'da bir fiil özneden önce geldiğinde her zaman tekildir.
> 
> فنقول: فهم الطلاب ولا نقول فهموا الطلاب
> 
> Türkçem nasıl? zayıf değil mi


Merhaba,

Türkçe dil düzeyinizi yalnızca bu yazdığınız küçük bir cümle ile değerlendirmem malesef mümkün değildir. (Doğru yazdınız tabi de  ) 




> Klasik Arapça'da bir fiil özneden önce geldiğinde her zaman tekildir.



bu doğru ve bilinen birşey ((benim de) bildiğim birşey yani). Dilerseniz ilgili kaynağın künyesini buraya yazabilirim.

saygılarımla.


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## Romeel

rarabara said:


> Merhaba,
> 
> Türkçe dil düzeyinizi yalnızca bu yazdığınız küçük bir cümle ile değerlendirmem malesef mümkün değildir. (Doğru yazdınız tabi de  )


teşekkür ederim 
Türkçeyi sadece sözlü olarak kullanırım, yazılı olarak değil. Taksicilerle ne zaman Türkçe konuşsam, taksicilerden biri hariç sözlerime gülüyorlar ve sanırım bana inanmadılar 


rarabara said:


> bu doğru ve bilinen birşey ((benim de) bildiğim birşey yani). Dilerseniz ilgili kaynağın künyesini buraya yazabilirim.
> 
> saygılarımla.


Evet lütfen


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## rarabara

alialikhalid said:


> Evet lütfen


ALL THE ARABIC YOU NEVER LEARNED THE FIRST TIME AROUND
DEFENSE LANGUAGE INSTITUTE FOREIGN LANGUAGE CENTER (see p: 420)


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,


rarabara said:


> actually, the source I read mentions something about stress ,which I have not completely understood.
> 
> that source gives the translations as below.
> 
> فهم كلهم الدرس : All of them understood the lesson.
> فهموا كلهم الدرس : _All_ of them understood the lesson.
> 
> essentially same. But for the second sentence , All is written in italic.


Yes, in this case, it is not easy to show in translations the difference of meaning that there are between the two arabic sentences but I think there is indeed a difference:

In the first sentence the word كل (in كلهم) is simply the subject of the verb فهم, if we delete كلهم, the meaning of the sentence change...In the second sentence, كلهم is used to add emphasis (التوكيد), if we delete it the meaning of the sentence does not change but we lose the emphasis. Here we add emphasis to the subject pronoun "they" (the pronoun و in the verb فهموا).

Generally the word (المؤكد) to which the emphasis is added (with words like كل) is an explicit noun (for example : فهم الطلاب كلهم الدرس where الطلاب is the المؤكد), I had not yet seen an example where the المؤكد is a subject pronoun, maybe that's why this sentence may seem incorrect ?

There are lessons about this topic (التوكيد المعنوي) in grammar books.

Here is a small explanation in English :








Source : A Grammar of the Arabic Language


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