# do people actually say "ta"?



## Roi Marphille

hey, 
been told that you can say "ta" refering "thanks".
I think is something very British. For me it sounds kinda of childfish, but I'm not sure and I don't really dare to say it fearing someone may laugh on me..

My questions are: 
Do (young) people actually say that?
If so, do they say it only in UK or in USA too?

ta in advance!


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## foxfirebrand

I've seen it used by Australians.


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## panjandrum

A very familiar memory, but I haven't noticed *ta* recently. It is not in the current vocabulary of WMPG (world's most perfect granddaughter), who is now 5. It is VERY often used, first as *ta-ta*, by adults when speaking to children. WMPG has never been patronised to that extent - by her family. But for many kids here *ta-ta* (then *ta*) is part of their language development along with *ma-ma*, *da-da*, and other simple repetitive combinations. Typically, they grow out of it by the time they are 2 

But sadly, some adults grow back into it again when talking to young children. It comes into the same category as *wuff-wuff* for a dog, and *puff-puff* for train - I mean, really, what can puff-puff have to do with trains except in the distant memory of those now aged 60+ 

For those of us keen to introduce the likes of WPMG to the excitement of polysyllabic speech, *ta* just doesn't feature.


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## daviesri

I have heard of people using "ta" to say good-bye (shortened version of ta-ta).  I have never heard it as "thanks".  If I remember properly it was a UK thing.


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## jess oh seven

it's not all that common (maybe more common in certain areas than others), but it's definitely a British thing and not an American one.

you can say "ta much", as well... for "thank you very much"... normally you'd only say it to your friends if you were joking around a bit....


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## Aupick

OK, I confess, I use 'ta' for thanks from time to time. I try not to say it when I'm in the US, although it occasionally slips out. In the UK I use it for a small thanks, if someone passes me the salt, for instance, or if they do an additional favour and I've already said thanks a moment before. I tend to use 'cheers' (for thanks) more frequently, though, although this is one I definitely try to avoid stateside. I've received some strange looks in the past because of it.


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## Mr X

People here use it fairly often, at least often enough that no one would think you're weird for using it.

I agree with Aupick about when it's used most. It's generally when you want to say thanks for smaller things.

Mr X.


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## Gordonedi

In Northern England, it is quite common for people of all ages to use "ta" as a contraction of "thanks", usually in the phrase "ta very much".  There was widespread similar usage in the London area, but is heard less now.

The use of "ta" in British television scripts tends to indicate Northern English, uneducated, dialect, so I would not recommend its adoption by a non-native speaker.


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## axolotl66

I don't know if I would agree with Gordonedi with respect to the use of "ta" as marker for Northern Dialect, although I would agree that non-native speakers should be very careful about its use. It is a very informal way of saying "thank you" and would best be used accordingly.

I use "ta" in the same way as Aupick, down here in Worcestershire, England. I have never heard it singly to indicate "goodbye".

aXe


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## Berlingot

Yes, I can confirm that the Brits do say "ta" for "thank you". I have heard it many times in the UK.  I would have thought that was more of a Northern England expression but southeners also use it.  Just quicker than saying "thank you".


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## Amityville

Fairly common I think. But goodbye is ta-ta (babyish) or ta-ra (up north).


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## garryknight

"Ta" for "thank you" is very common in London, especially in the East and South-East.


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## panjandrum

garryknight said:
			
		

> "Ta" for "thank you" is very common in London, especially in the East and South-East.


Ah, you are about to tell us the defining point is the Browne's at 23 Wootton Street - anywhere to the right and down a bit from there uses "ta" for thank-you 

"Ta-ra chuck," has, sadly, worked its way into common BE understanding as meaning "goodbye", or so they tell me.


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## timpeac

garryknight said:
			
		

> "Ta" for "thank you" is very common in London, especially in the East and South-East.


I use it all the time, for a small expression of thanks eg if someone passes you something. It would sound too flippant in response to being given a present, for example.


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## phibroptix

Hi Roi!here in the Philippines, we usually say "TY" short for "thank you".  
e.g. Ty in advance or ty much for 'thank you much'.....=)
But it's nice to hear that there are other words to say 'thank you' like 'ta'. Probably, I will use this with my common friends...


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## evalangui

But is it actually pronounced "ta"? as in, say... "tank top"? and not like the first syllable of "thanks"?


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## Loob

It's pronounced like "car" (with no r at the end) or "spa".

Or, more precisely, "tar"...


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## evalangui

oh, ok then. Ta!


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## empee

I should have thought that the use of the word was more common in the North of England (I heard it used around Manchaster) but now I have learnt that this is not the case. Thank you for pointing this out.

I would also like to know more about the etimology of _ta,_ meaning 'thank you'. I once heard that it comes from some Scandinavian language (Perhaps a Viking remnant? Which, by the way, would have given support to my 'North-of-England theory'). The online The English-to-American Dictionary also suggests the possibility of Scandinavian origin.


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## london calling

garryknight said:


> "Ta" for "thank you" is very common in London, especially in the East and South-East.


 Yes, as a south-east Londoner I confirm!


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## cycloneviv

foxfirebrand said:


> I've seen it used by Australians.



True. I use it frequently.


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## gasman

I must admit to "ta muchly" in an attempt to offer informal thanks!


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## Broccolicious

I use it for 'thank you' but not 'good bye'. Having said that, I have a friend who ends emails, 'Ta, Dan'.


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## london calling

Broccolicious said:


> I use it for 'thank you' but not 'good bye'.  Having said that, I have a friend who ends emails, 'Ta, Dan'.


 
Ay? You sure it's not tara? 

Jo


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## panjandrum

empee said:


> [...]
> I would also like to know more about the etimology of _ta,_ meaning 'thank you'. I once heard that it comes from some Scandinavian language (Perhaps a Viking remnant? Which, by the way, would have given support to my 'North-of-England theory'). The online The English-to-American Dictionary also suggests the possibility of Scandinavian origin.


Neither the OED nor etymology online give any source for ta - other than as a natural infantile form of gratitude, or of thank you.


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## Broccolicious

I could check... 

And I can just imagine anyone in EastEnders saying 'ta-ta, love' (but with the second 't' softened to almost a 'd'). That may or may not be scientific evidence to support the East London theory!


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## london calling

empee said:


> I would also like to know more about the etimology of _ta,_ meaning 'thank you'. I once heard that it comes from some Scandinavian language (Perhaps a Viking remnant? Which, by the way, would have given support to my 'North-of-England theory'). The online The English-to-American Dictionary also suggests the possibility of Scandinavian origin.


 
Yes, quite probably!

Thank you:

Danish = tak
Norwegian = takk
Swedish = tack

Jo


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## ewie

I use it all the time, ceaselessly, everywhere. Mind you, if I was receiving a Nobel Prize, I wouldn't start my speech with _Ta, lads_.
(I also use the double _goodbye_ version all the time, ceaselessly, everywhere: _tada _or _tara _[_t'ra_ for short]_.)_
Neither sounds *in the least bit* childish to me


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## Matching Mole

empee said:


> I would also like to know more about the etimology of _ta,_ meaning 'thank you'. I once heard that it comes from some Scandinavian language (Perhaps a Viking remnant? Which, by the way, would have given support to my 'North-of-England theory'). The online The English-to-American Dictionary also suggests the possibility of Scandinavian origin.



(Sorry, this is a bit late!)

I think that's all rather fanciful, and the answer is more simple. It's an infantile form of thank you, as babies and children have, or are considered to have, more difficulty with "th". Actually, I think it's more of an adult's idea of baby talk, as, in the context of children, I have heard more adults saying it to babies, than babies saying it themselves. "Say, ta!" and an exaggerated "Taa!" when giving to or receiving things from babies are often heard (attempts, I presume, to teach the baby the word, and some manners).

Interestingly there is a quotation from 1807 from the OED:
"How her ten weeks old baby will laugh and say taa!" I had no idea it has been going on for that long.

As silly as it sounds when you discuss it, "ta" is spoken by adults in all parts of England (I'm less sure about other parts of the UK) with great frequency and without a single thought that it might be ridiculous.

EDIT: Ewie, I agree. I use "ta" all the time, as I said "without a single thought that it might be ridiculous". However, it does strike me as childish when I think about it more objectively (in discussions like this for example).


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## suzi br

Here in Stoke on Trent I hear "ta" for thanks quite often and have a few pals who alway say "ta-ra" for goodbye .. usually "ta-ra duck" in fact.   

Duck  another local dialect thing that we love round here ... but would find very odd from the mouth of a non-native speaker ...  my Polish pal, whose English is impeccable, never dabbles in the dialect side of life!


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## suzi br

and ps it isn't childish when adults do it, anymore than it is when we use any other word we've taught to a kid!


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## timpeac

suzi br said:


> and ps it isn't childish when adults do it, anymore than it is when we use any other word we've taught to a kid!



Even daan saaf it's quite normal for adults to say "ta".


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## nzfauna

In NZ, it is also common.


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## Dimcl

In Canada, the only time that we hear it said is when we're watching "Coronation Street".


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## Brioche

foxfirebrand said:


> I've seen it used by Australians.



I've* heard *it used by Australians!


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## Gwan

nzfauna said:


> In NZ, it is also common.


 
I second that. Again, for small things. 'Cheers' is also very popular, or if you want to sound really NZ (and why wouldn't you) try 'cheer bro'.


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## ewie

In Manchester it's _very often_ pronounced with a short _a_ as in c*a*t, or that vowel prolonged, so */tæ/* or */tæ:/*.  Which (it seems to me) is only one letter short of Danish _tak_ etc.


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## ivyraphael

foxfirebrand said:


> I've seen it used by Australians.


 
'Ta' is very commonly used in Australia as an expression of thanks for small things, 'ta-ta' is less commonly used to say goodbye.


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## natkretep

Yes, _ta_ is British, Oz and Kiwi. My language is British influenced, so I might say _ta_ or _ta much_ or _ta muchly _(if I'm trying to be funny), usually to family. If someone holds open the lift or the door for me, then _cheers_ is more likely. For the farewell greeting, it will have to be _tara_.


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## nzfauna

Ta is very common in NZE.


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## shokan

In 1975, it was very common in London. I'm now in Canada and do not hear it used in current British TV shows such as Time team. I hear "cheers" used now in place of "ta". That is, a small thanks. I've never heard "ta" used in the US or Canada. 

By the way, a currently popular term in England seems to be "brilliant" for "fantastic" or "great". I did not hear "brilliant" used this way in 1975 when I was in London. I am starting a new thread for "brilliant" under English Only.


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## emma42

Plenty of "ta"s in Nottingham too.  When I won the Nobel Prize, I did actually say, "Ta, lads".


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## shokan

So, more properly, it wouldn't have been just a small thanks, rather more like a sincere/friendly/chummy expression of thanks.


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## london calling

shokan said:


> In 1975, it was very common in London. I'm now in Canada and do not hear it used in current British TV shows such as Time team. I hear "cheers" used now in place of "ta". That is, a small thanks. I've never heard "ta" used in the US or Canada.
> 
> By the way, a currently popular term in England seems to be "brilliant" for "fantastic" or "great". I did not hear "brilliant" used this way in 1975 when I was in London. I am starting a new thread for "brilliant" under English Only.


I wouldn't say "brilliant" was current, I've been using it for years to mean "fantastico!" (and I'm a Londoner). I think I'll come and see what you all say in the English Only forum...

I agree, "cheers" or "cheers, mate!" is very common now in the UK, but I still prefer "ta", although I admit I use it jokingly!


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## emma42

shokan said:


> So, more properly, it wouldn't have been just a small thanks, rather more like a sincere/friendly/chummy expression of thanks.



It could be either.


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## Waylink

In my experience in the English Midlands and elsewhere, "ta" is often used to say "Thanks" typically when *all* of the following conditions are met:

-- only in British English and AU/NZ etc (not in American English)
-- only in *informal * settings (or informal asides in more formal settings);
-- only for *friendly/chummy* or sometimes *casual * communications;
-- only for *small things/courtesies*;
-- only in *speaking* - very rarely in writing (other than in a written dialogue);

I have never hear of "ta" being used as a short form of "ta-ta" which is often used in similar conditions to mean "Goodbye".   Perhaps the speaker said "ta-ta" or "ta-ra" but the listener only heard the initial (stressed) "ta".  

A common variation of "ta-ra" in some parts of the English Midlands is "*ta-ra a bit*" but that is a quite local dialectal usage, I think.

Incidentally, some will remember that it was customary in the old days of teletypewriter communications (electro-mechanical terminal connected to a (usually) remote computer) to end the message with:

*TTFN*  (abbreviation for "ta-ta for now").

This was used in quite formal situations such as a machine response saying that it could not process the submitted instruction as in:

Syntax error at line 40.
Compilation terminated.
TTFN.


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## Matching Mole

I think "ta" is much more likely to be casual ("small") thanks. I can't imagine saying this, say, upon receiving a present. However, you can make it "big" by using it enthusiastically and musically. E.g. "Oooh! Taa!" However, I think this sounds rather quaint or child-like.


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## katie_here

timpeac said:


> I use it all the time, for a small expression of thanks eg if someone passes you something. It would sound too flippant in response to being given a present, for example.


 
I agree with Timpeac and say I use it all the time for a quick thankyou.  If someone passes you something, or holds a door open.  

As mentioned before "ta-ta" is how little kids say goodbye, but "ta-ra" is still commonly used by people in my locality.  We pronounce it t'ra, a very short ta and longer ra.


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## GirlFromTheNorthCountry

I used to be under the impression that it was mainly used in the northern England but then I was in a pub in Bristol and heard a barman saying 'ta' to me when I gave the money. Then again, he may not have been from the area. I wouldn't be the best person to tell that, but I guess people here have already confirmed its use in other parts of England.


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## kalamazoo

In AE, I have never heard "ta" or "cheers" for thanks, unless perhaps from some visiting Brit.  I don't think people use either of these expressions at all.  We do say "ta-ta" for good-bye sometimes though, although it's not that frequent.


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## dancing_fleur

I'm Australian, and only old people and bogans seem to use it, as far as I can see.


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## cycloneviv

Hi dancing_fleur,

Well, I'm in my 30s (perhaps that's old?) and not a bogan, and I and those around me use it all the time.  Perhaps it's a Sydney/Perth thing.


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## akurain

It is common to use "ta" as thank you in Australia, funny no one actually knows how did "ta" evolve from "thank you".


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## sonia87

In Australia it's often the sort of thing you would say when people hand you your takeaway food, or small common objects. 
It's just a very brief informal thank you, like saying 'thanks' but it's actually the older generation who use it more commonly than you'll find it being used by kids or teens. 

However I generally hear it pronounced like 'ta' a sort of 'tah' sound, short and sharp. Not like 'tar' as other people have said. 
I have heard it drawn out like that before... but not often. As it's a brief way to say thank you, I usually find it very quick when you hear it being used.


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## The pedant

In my native South Wales it is/was virtually universal in conversation outside 'posh' circles. I haven't heard it so much in England, funnily enough, and have occasionally been scorned for using it myself. Delighted to find I'm not alone, but will take the advice not to try taking it transatlantic.


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## BODYholic

Waylink said:


> *TTFN*  (abbreviation for "ta-ta for now").



Wiki has a writeup on this abbreviation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TTFN

In Singapore, "ta-ta" is an informal way to say goodbye. It's like a kiddie language here. It has absolutely no connotation of thankfulness.


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## roxcyn

People have commenteded on how it can mean thank you/goodbye.  While I wouldn't use that I know there are people that do.  You also have to be careful with ta-ta because TA also can mean t*ts and a*s  so you could say something like I want to see her tatas.  I don't think AE speakers use ta-ta for goodbye or thank you too much I believe it's more of BE/AuE thing.  

Pablo


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## Gwan

roxcyn said:


> You also have to be careful with ta-ta because TA also can mean t*ts and a*s


 
I've only seen T &/and A for this meaning (written or spoken).


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## The pedant

A bit of confusion in earlier posts about ta and ta-ta, I think. To clarify: the two pieces of (mainly Brit) slang:

ta (for 'thankyou'), and
ta-ta (for 'goodbye')
are both quite common, but as far as I know they have nothing to do with one another. It may be just coincidence that both contain the syllable 'ta', or as others have suggested it may be due to the fact that this syllable is easy for young children to pronounce, and so has worked its way into two pieces of 'babyspeak'. But a lot of us go on finding both words easy to say as adults, and so we go on using them!

I can't remember if anyone has already pointed this out, but 'ta-ta' often becomes 'ta-ra'. I hear this most often with a north of England accent - anyone know whether that's where it's actually most used?


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## Ferrydog

Yes, I say 'ta' a lot, for an informal 'thankyou'. (Pronounced like 'tar'). 

I was brought up in Yorkshire but have lived in the south-east of England for the past thirty years. No one has ever commented on my casual use of this Northern England (?) expression and I presume it is totally understood. I admit that I rarely hear it on a daily basis here. My wife and children, being all southerners by upbringing, do not use it. 

I have always assumed it has a Norse derivation. Danish, Norwegian and Swedish all use 'tak', or similar, for 'thankyou'. Make sense ? 

I would not use 'ta' in a formal situation though.


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## Alxmrphi

Ferrydog said:


> I have always assumed it has a Norse derivation. Danish, Norwegian and Swedish all use 'tak', or similar, for 'thankyou'. Make sense ?



I assumed this as well when I first learnt those ways to say Thank You in the Norse languages, I think it originally was a Northern expression (and like most things in the history of English) started in the North and worked its way down.

The _Northern roots_ makes sense, as for a considerable period we had the Danelaw in which Scandinavian (North Germanic) people and language mixed with the normal speakers of English (Old English), mixing physically and linguistically, and through this mixing we get stuff like _them / they / their _and even a new form of the verb "to be" (English once had two verbs, like Spanish does now) so it really doesn't surprise me if this Scandinavian word had an affect on how we say "Thank you" in informal ways


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## PlainandTall

I never realized it was BE, but if Americans say ta-ta to mean goodbye- it almost always has a haughty sense to it, as if they were very upper class- but in a joking way.  I think that it's actually a mock on the BE.


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## london calling

PlainandTall said:


> I never realized it was BE, but if Americans say ta-ta to mean goodbye- it almost always has a haughty sense to it, as if they were very upper class- but in a joking way. I think that it's actually a mock on the BE.


It's the sort of thing we say to our kids when they're tiny:

_Say ta ta!_

Getting back to the original question ("ta" = thanks), as I said before we do say it, although I've always taken it as coming from the North of England.


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## ellieere2k9

yes, i do and yorkshire people normally use it as a way of saying thank you in slang terms.


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## adini

It is an informal way of saying thankyou. People do use it as slang.


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## Alxmrphi

I'm with LC 
Why were treating "ta / tar" (thanks) and "ta ta" (good bye) as the same thing is beyond me.

(By the way, "ta" is _*extremely common*_ in NW England)


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## Redshade

Aye lad we actually do. 

This is ubiquitous and used unselfconsciously in the north of England and farther/further afield.

I have heard this in the most formal of contexts (job interviews and managerial meetings for instance).

I have heard not just ordinary people but also MPS and peers of the realm say this.

<< removed >>


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## Nymeria

My goodness! I have never heard it used to mean "thank you" before in my life! Egad and eek!

(I am familiar with its use as an informal way of saying "goodbye" though.)


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## JulianStuart

Nymeria said:


> (I am familiar with its use as an informal way of saying "goodbye" though.)


Nope, that's ta-ta!  Very different.


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## Nymeria

I know about 'ta-ta' Julian. I also know that 'ta-ta' is often shortened to 'ta', since I say them both.


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## JulianStuart

Fair enough!  I've heard ta-ra as a variant of ta-ta but not heard ta (in the US or UK) as a form of goodbye.  Is it possibly BarbadianE ?  Or have others heard it used that way?


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## london calling

JulianStuart said:


> Fair enough! I've heard ta-ra as a variant of ta-ta but not heard ta (in the US or UK) as a form of goodbye. Is it possibly BarbadianE ? Or have others heard it used that way?


No, I'm with you there. This must be a Caribbean variation on a theme.

You learn so much new stuff here!


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## greggegg

Hello,
"Ta" is a very common word throug-out Britain, Its is used both in southern england and Northern alike, also much of the lallans speaking scots and and ulster irish, also in pockets around the britain (north wales especially). It is a derivative of the old Norsk word for thank you, now seen in also Germanic Scandanavian languages, tak in swedish for example. It was brought to England with old Norsk settlers and has since been a strong and long lasting word in the english language, for at least 1000 years. It is more common in Northern England and London area due to Norsk settlers over 1000 years ago, and continual trading between these areas and scandanavian countries, such as lancashire and norway and Northumberland and county durahm with denmark. It is a common word in both standard northern english, and a loan word to rp english, along with the general word for thankyou in most/all northern dialects, such as tyke (yorkshire), lanky (lancastrian) Northumbrian, pitmatic, cumbrian and westmorland. It is not childish word by any means, nor is tara (goodbye), however ta ta (goodbye, rp english) may be seen as being so. It is a linguistic and dialectual standard word of very old origin.

Gregg Ashcroft


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## greggegg

TARA is also a very common word used in Northern England, North Wales, Ireland, Scotland, London and West counrty. How long you have lived in "the UK" must be short, for it is a common word. I hear it about 20 timmes a day and I use it too, and I am a young lad, all my friends and family us it, as do many of my lecturers at university. It is a very common word, although it is a Northern English word more commonly. Oh London calling where are you from, are you from london, or just bin there. If you are from there you may not have heard it, depending upon your class or social back ground, if you are foreign then you have probly met few english people in london, as its very multi cultural in london, especially central london


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## iconoclast

I've only just seen this post:

I'm from Darkest Ulster, sorry Sunny Nornirn, and I say 'ta', but not 'ta-ta' or 'ta-ra'.


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## panjandrum

The theory about ta having a norse origin has already been mentioned in this thread.
It is an interesting theory, but no more than that.  It has no support from, for example, the OED, which also suggests that it is of relatively recent origin (18th century) though that relates only to its appearance in written form.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Being from Dublin, I'd only expect it to hear "ta" used amongst older women, otherwise I have the impression that it's rarely employed these days.


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## Kevin Beach

I've heard "ta" as a colloquial form of "thank you" all over England. It may have a class element to it, in that it seems to be more common in what are still called "working class" circles.

I have always assumed that it started as baby talk, "ta" being one of the sounds that babies tend to make when they are learning to use their voices. Doting parents tend to intepret baby noises as real words. I can well imagine an eager mother believing that, as she handed baby its drink, the random "ta" that came out of its mouth was an attempt to say "thanks" or "thank you". Once a sound is established as the baby's speech, it tends to permeate the family for several years.


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## boriszcat

I can confirm that you will be laughed at in America if you say ta or ta-ta. It sounds like something a 19th century British princess would say to her rich playmates - "Ta ta darling." Since we don't say ta, we would assume this is a short form of ta-ta, meaning goodbye rather than thanks. 
Americans also do say "tatas" as a crude but silly word for breasts. However there is no chance of mistaking "ta-ta" (understood as goodbye) for randomly pointing out someone's breasts. The context makes it clear.


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## Alxmrphi

Hi boris, I think you're thinking about */ta/*, we say it */ta:/*. 
I agree if we said /ta/ that would sound silly and exactly how you described, but with a long vowel it doesn't sound unusual (though it could easily still for you).


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## london calling

greggegg said:


> Oh London calling where are you from, are you from london, or just bin there. If you are from there you may not have heard it, depending upon your class or social back ground, if you are foreign then you have probly met few english people in london, as its very multi cultural in london, especially central london


I'm a Londoner born and bred and my mother's family has been in London for several hundred years, as a matter of fact (but my paternal grandfather was from Burnley)!  So no, I ain't just "bin there" and I'm definitely not foreign, although I live abroad now.

As I said, we say both "ta" and  "ta ra " in London but to me they are not typical London expressions. I associate them with the north of England (and with Cilla Black in particular!).


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## Alxmrphi

> I associate them with the north of England (and with Cilla Black in particular!).


Haha I am from the same city as her (actually met her in Spain once) - but anyway she is the only one that sounds like that where I am from, she's not a representation of the rest of us


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## tosh77

Hi all,

the word 'Ta' is commonly used in Australia as an abbreviation for "thankyou" or "thanks".   

I actually heard it's source when in the shetland islands, where it is also common, as it is throughout England, although I'd like to bet it's more common in Australia now, don't forget our strong convict heritage.  

From memory it originates from the viking word for thankyou, a harsh sounding, mono-syballic word sounding like 'tuck'.  

It was about 6 years ago I heard this explanation but I'm pretty sure I have recalled this correctly...I just remember being so fascinated at the time when talking to tourist guide people in the shetlands.

regards

Tosh77


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## tosh77

Oh I've just read back, looks like I was close if not spot on, having noted that Gregegg basically saying the same thing.


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## ID_fX

Ta!    I hear that everywhere in Australia!!     Ta = Thank you!!


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## smspencer69

I was raised in an old mining town in during the late 70's and 80's and "ta" (as thank you - pronounced like "tar") has been commonly used throughout my lifetime. 

Always wanting the best for me, and not wanting me to be prejudiced against for having a local dialect my parents raised me to speak properly (sorry if this sounds elitist in any way that's not my intention), pronouncing words correctly and avoiding slang despite coming from working class backgrounds themselves.

Ironically when I started school my friends ,who only lived only a few streets, away considered I spoke "posh" and in later years I modified my dialect to "fit in" with my friends, so my use of language and even accent changes depending on who I'm with. Anyway I can remember them frequently using the word "ta" and was a 5 year old I can recall I was somewhat bemused by this, and other words like water that they'd pronounce like the word "batter".

This goes someway to affirm my opinion that this seems to be more of a working class origin, and as someone who's travelled around the UK it does tend to be used more widespread up north (and may be pronounced slightly differently depending on a persons accent). Around Yorkshire you'll often hear mothers telling their yound children to "say ta" rather than thank you, which may be why some people think it's "baby speak", but unlike "ta ta" (goodbye) which is baby speak the terms "ta" and "ta-ra" (goodbye) are not.

As someone has already said it is more of an informal term, and may seem too flippant in certain situations. 

I guess though as the world is becoming a smaller place the use of the word has spread, I've got work colleauges I speak to in India using Instant Messaging who now regularly use "ta". 

Also with the use of "txt spk" in more recent years I often see it in written form from friends all over who've adopted shortened methods for saying thank you, thanks, thanx, thks, thx, ty and ta etc. Though I suspect some people may intend it to be an acronym of "Thanks Alot", but that's just personal opinion.

Doing a bit of research I've also seen mention of it being of Danish origin, but I also found one sourch that suggested it may be from "Burmese (shortened from 'ta ta'), which was picked up and used by the English during the British colonial control of Burma." but I've struggled to find more info on this.

p.s. 
I lived in Stoke for a few years and also noticed they use "duck" a lot as a term of endearment. In Yorkshire it tends to be "love", (i.e. "Hello love", "Ta love", or "There you go love" when handing something to someone). Some women (especially outside the region) may find this condescending coming from a man, but the truth is it wouldn't be out of place to say it to a young child or even a man to say it to another man, though perhaps not a common place. For men they'd more likely to say "cock", (i.e. "Alreyt cock" as a greeting, or "Howya doin cocker"), and using this term to someone outside the region can have amusing consequences.


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## natkretep

Welcome to the forum, SM! I'm intrigued to hear about the Burmese connection.


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## smspencer69

natkretep said:


> Welcome to the forum, SM! I'm intrigued to hear about the Burmese connection.


 
Thanks. It seems a little unlikely to me but it was something that was suggested by someone.


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## Jo1234

I use it all the time, but mostly just with friends and family.


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## wlanguide

Jo1234 said:


> I use it all the time, but mostly just with friends and family.



So quite informal?


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## xabiachica

wlanguide said:


> So quite informal?


Yes, it's informal.

I, as a southern Brit, use it all the time.


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## nzfauna

As a NZer, I can confirm that we use "ta" often, to mean thanks.  It is informal but not impolite.


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## huntdag

It is certainly also used in Australia and (I believe) New Zealand.  

I should add,  with reference to one of the earlier comments, that whether you say 'ta' or not has nothing to do with ones level of education.  It's more about the dialect or level of formality you happen to be using at the time.  The idea that it's a Viking remnant is interesting.


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## Jessica920

yes they do , i meen i do all the time and so does all my friends and everyone i know =)


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## ><FISH'>

That's very interesting, I never knew that it might have a Scandinavian origin, I thought it was just a lazifying of "*Tha*nks".


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## Andygc

empee said:


> I would also like to know more about the etimology of _ta,_ meaning 'thank you'. I once heard that it comes from some Scandinavian language (Perhaps a Viking remnant? Which, by the way, would have given support to my 'North-of-England theory'). The online The English-to-American Dictionary also suggests the possibility of Scandinavian origin.


The Concise Oxford Dictionary gives the origin as 18th century: a child's word.


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## Jessica920

><FISH'> said:


> That's very interesting, I never knew that it might have a Scandinavian origin, I thought it was just a lazifying of "*Tha*nks".


 
it is a shortage of thanks, coz i say it 4 thanks and so does everyone else i know , but not scandavian i dont think , ive only ever heard it been said in english =)


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## Alxmrphi

Jessica920 said:


> it is a shortage of thanks, coz i say it 4 thanks and so does everyone else i know , but not scandavian i dont think , ive only ever heard it been said in english =)



You might say it as another option but it doesn't mean it's _from_ it...
I say _ta _more than I say _thanks _probably.

Considering it's "takk" in most other Scandinavian languages and when the Vikings came over they brought a LOT of their language with them (<<-like that, the word *them *is Scandinavian)


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## Jessica920

Alxmrphi said:


> You might say it as another option but it doesn't mean it's _from_ it...
> I say _ta _more than I say _thanks _probably.
> 
> Considering it's "takk" in most other Scandinavian languages and when the Vikings came over they brought a LOT of their language with them (<<-like that, the word *them *is Scandinavian)


 
cool , i never knew that =)


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## Alxmrphi

Jessica920 said:


> cool , i never knew that =)


Yeah it's amazing reading about the history of some words.
But what I wanted to say was, obvious we know it's English now, we're not meaning it is still Scandinavian today, just that, hundreds of years ago it came from there and then stayed until today, so "_of Scandinavian origin_" I should have said.

Welcome to the forum by the way


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## mplsray

_Ta_ is first attested in English in 1772. It seems to me the likeliest explanation of its origin is that it came from an alteration by infants of _thanks_ and the baby talk expression was adopted by adults, as the Oxford English Dictionary and other dictionaries suggest.


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## Alxmrphi

Ta



> A slang word for Thanks. The word is a result of the heavy Danish  influence on the English language. Most people do not realize that the  English language roots are really Danish or Jutland. Equiped with this  knowledge this word is easy to decipher. The Danish word for Thanks is  tak. In Scotland and upper England it was common to drop the k at the  end because of the way words were pronounced during the time of old  English and Middle English. Hence the slang word "Ta" which should  actually be pronounced "TA-k" but over time became "Ta" is really Tak  meaning "Thanks"


I actually think this is the more plausible explanation.
Same thing happened in Icelandic, it has [θ] at the front of "thank you" like we do in English, yet under Danish influence (where there was an interdental / alveolar change [θ] -> [t]) the word became *takk* and is now the only way you express thanks, and has been for hundreds of years.

Weighing that up against people copying the speech of infants, I think this is the most reasonable explanation, but of course no proof either side and it's all just speculation.
Maybe actually seeing and knowing an almost identical example in another language is influencing me (i.e. Icelandic: Thank you "thakka thyer", Thanks "takk") and knowing a lot about exactly how Danish had a massive massive impact with the Vikings in England, it's clear as day to me that this could easily be the situation. Opposed to the fact I've not heard of a case of baby speech being imitated seriously and used to such an extent that "*ta*" is, makes me believe the former explanation.


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## ewie

Alxmrphi said:


> I actually think this is the more plausible explanation.


I think so too, Alx.

I really don't think the idea of _thanks >>> ta_ holds much water.  I've never met a baby who simplified /θ/ to /t/ rather than /f/.  (That's kind of a '*spelling* simplification'.)
Now if we were going around saying _fa_ rather than _ta_, that would be a different kettle of whatsits.


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## Kevin Beach

ewie said:


> I think so too, Alx.
> 
> I really don't think the idea of _thanks >>> ta_ holds much water.  I've never met a baby who simplified /θ/ to /t/ rather than /f/.  (That's kind of a '*spelling* simplification'.)
> Now if we were going around saying _fa_ rather than _ta_, that would be a different kettle of whatsits.


I think we're misunderstanding baby talk and adults' reactions to it.

Babies come out with many sounds starting with a consonant and ending with "a": Ba Da Ga Ha Ka La Ma Na Pa Sa Ta. Sometimes they double them: Mama Papa Nana Dada.

It's as natural as anything for a baby to have uttered a sound (Ta) when being given something and for an adult to think it was an attempt at "thanks". It probably wasn't, but that's not the point. It's the adults reaction to the sound that's important. Like so much baby talk, it's taken up by the adults when talking to the baby, and it becomes a family code. Multiply that by many families and it becomes part of the culture.


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## Alxmrphi

Kevin Beach said:


> It's as natural as anything for a baby to have uttered a sound (Ta) when being given something and for an adult to think it was an attempt at "thanks". It probably wasn't, but that's not the point. It's the adults reaction to the sound that's important. Like so much baby talk, it's taken up by the adults when talking to the baby, and it becomes a family code. Multiply that by many families and it becomes part of the culture.


 
If your example was about "ta ta" (bye bye) then I'd believe you, but there's just too much evidence / plausibility for the other hypothesis for me to believe this baby talk stuff, I can perfectly understand it though, children's articulatory organs aren't fully developed and [θ] is a pretty marked sound across language, so is developed later on in children's phonetics.

I do know baby's / small children say "ta" for "thanks" but I think that's merely co-incidental. The adult way has a different vowel anyway.


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## ewie

Kevin Beach said:


> Like so much baby talk, it's taken up by the adults when talking to the baby, and it becomes a family code. Multiply that by many families and it becomes part of the culture.



I take your point, Mr.B.  (Hello Mr.B)


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## mplsray

Alxmrphi said:


> Opposed to the fact I've not heard of a case of baby speech being imitated seriously and used to such an extent that "*ta*" is, makes me believe the former explanation.



There is a short article here on the Merriam-Webster Web site which discusses some words adopted into English from baby talk.

Here's an additional list, not including words in that article, based upon M.-W. etymologies:


buddy
icky
teensy-weensy
tummy
tutu (from French baby talk)
twee


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## Andygc

Ref post #102. Is the Urban dictionary a reliable source for etymology? Or meaning, come to that. I think that any credibility it might have had is destroyed fairly quickly if you read down the page for "ta" which Alxmrphi linked to. Do I prefer the diligent researches of the contributors to the Oxford dictionaries, or the idiosyncratic theory of a contributor to the Urban dictionary who wrote "Most people do not realize that the English language roots are really  Danish or Jutland." and then goes on to claim a knowledge of how people pronounced words in the time of "old English and Middle English"? Either a time traveller or the owner of the first known gramophone.

Indeed, I don't suppose many of us do realize that. We think much of the language might have come from Old French, Old German, Latin, Greek, Arabic, Portugese ... etc. Not forgetting Norse and Norman French, of course.


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## Alxmrphi

I am usually the first person to scorn Urban Dictionary (for the same reasons I assume you hold), but I can't deny that that first post contains the same opinion I believe.

There are a few unconfirmed theories (based on sensible statements) about where the Proto-Germanic speakers came from, and certainly the general consensus is Denmark / Germany is where they originated before branching into East (Gothic), North (Old Norse) and West (English, Dutch etc)

Every book on Old English has the disclaimer that we will never truly know the pronunciation, but a lot of good work has gone into reconstructing the best guesses, the most credible theories, and others have even gone back further to postulate in Proto languages like Germanic, or even further to Proto-Indo-European, historical linguistics isn't something which has a lot of physical evidence available, this is just one aspect, reconstruction of vowels / consonants through sound change laws and evidence in comparative theory from other related languages.



> Indeed, I don't suppose many of us do  realize that. We think much of the language might have come from Old  French, Old German, Latin, Greek, Arabic, Portugese ... etc. Not  forgetting Norse and Norman French, of course.


People are more than welcome to think those things, but factually all wrong of course.
But there are those who enjoy reading about etymologies and historical linguistics who _do have_ an idea of general patterns and a clearer idea of what the linguistic truth is.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm certainly not saying anyone is wrong, but there is certainly a credible / linguistically sound explanation for the origin of that particular word, consonant loss after a Danish borrowing, vowel lengthening because the word would have been a light monosyllable, and a more prominent northern usage. If the Vikings can give us our plural pronouns why is it so hard to assume it can't have happened with a word that means _thank you_?


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## Andygc

Alxmrphi said:


> People are more than welcome to think those things, but factually all wrong of course.


You have lost me there. I can accept that "ta" may have come to the language from a Nordic root, but I don't see that you can say "factually all wrong" about the language developing from a multitude of sources. I'd hardly argue that English grammar is derived from Latin, which is probably why it is fairly easy for me to understand sentence structure in German and Dutch, but there is an enormous volume of everyday vocabulary that is as Nordic as a Chinaman.


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## Alxmrphi

Andygc said:


> You have lost me there. I can accept that "ta" may have come to the language from a Nordic root, but I don't see that you can say "factually all wrong" about the language developing from a multitude of sources. I'd hardly argue that English grammar is derived from Latin, which is probably why it is fairly easy for me to understand sentence structure in German and Dutch, but there is an enormous volume of everyday vocabulary that is as Nordic as a Chinaman.



Ok I think there was a mutual misunderstanding.

I didn't realise you meant aspects of language (i.e. vocabulary), I thought you meant as a development from another one of those sources, if what you were saying is English comes down from the Germanic language family, closely related to Dutch / Frisian and a little less-so German, with a massive Romance vocabulary through French, and multiple other borrowings from most languages of the world, Native American ones, Australian ones (i.e. kangaroo) and many others.. then I agree 100% with you 

I suppose the definition of "develop from a multitude of sources" needs to be agreed upon, I'd only say vocabulary, with the exception that French could have played a role in English losing it's morphological noun declensions, but this wasn't a case of making it more like French, but less like the older forms of English.



> but there is an enormous volume of  everyday vocabulary that is as Nordic as a Chinaman.



Agreed!


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## inwit

I grew up in a middle class household in southern England and later moved to the east of England.  Ta comes entirely naturally to me, so I assume it was part of my first vocabulary.  I use it often and without thinking, usually by way of small thanks or acknowledgement rather than formal gratitude.  But it is rare among the English middle classes and I only know one other person who uses it as freely as me.  

The phrase 'ta muchly' is heard but usually from the person who seeks to aggrandise the minutiae of everyday trivia with over-ornate verbalisation and unnecessary formality. The same person might well refer to 'my good lady wife', rather than simply 'my wife'. 

Cheers, being rooted in a drinking salute, also makes me wince a little when used by way of general thanks.  I would never use it outside the context of a meeting over a glass.


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## Jayboo

I am very familiar with "ta" and "ta very much" which has the abbreviation "TVM". I grew up in Surrey UK and heard it in conversation and on the TV. In Western Canada 5B.C.), where I hail from, the term is used occasionally but I suspect by expats. Maybe more of a generational thing as I am in my 50s and have not heard it used by the younger generation although I think they would be familiar with the term.


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## Alistair the tumpshie

Berlingot said:


> Yes, I can confirm that the Brits do say "ta" for "thank you". I have heard it many times in the UK.  I would have thought that was more of a Northern England expression but southeners also use it.  Just quicker than saying "thank you".



I'm not sure, but I think you might be right when you say that "ta" is be more commonly used in Northern England than in Southern England, but we do also use it in Scotland. A lot of people on this thread seem to be assuming that "ta" is simply a contraction of "thank you" & is therefore childish & uneducated. This may be true. On the other hand, I have noticed how my Swedish second cousins say "tack" for thank you. I did a little research & discovered that all the Scandinavian languages use something very similar to "ta", with Norwegian "takk" & Danish "tak", while people who speak continental Germanic languages say something more akin to "thank you" e.g. "dank u" in Dutch or "danke" in German. I know this might sound a little far-fetched, but perhaps it is worth reminding ourselves that most of Northern England was a part of the Danelaw for many years i.e. it was heavily colonised by Vikings. It is widely acknowledged that one of the reasons for the North/South divide in England is the fact that Northern England was strongly influenced by Scandinavian culture & language, while Southern England stayed more true to the Anglo Saxon culture of the original English. As for the use of "ta" in Scotland: Scottish English is perhaps more similar to Northern English than Southern English, due to Northern England being much closer to Scotland.


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## Alistair the tumpshie

Sorry if my reply is slightly convoluted &/or riddled with grammatical mistakes.


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## Alistair the tumpshie

Just realised that there has already been a lengthy debate regarding the Scandinavian theory with regards to use of "ta". Sorry for any duplication of the thread.


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## icecreamsoldier

It would be interesting to do a survey on the age-related use of the word. I used it as a child, later dropped it from my vocabulary, and it found its way back in a few years ago. Children and people my age (mid twenties) and older use it frequently, but I don't hear teenagers using it very often.


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## shokan

Alistair the tumpshie said:


> I'm not sure, but I think you might be right when you say that "ta" is be more commonly used in Northern England than in Southern England, but we do also use it in Scotland. A lot of people on this thread seem to be assuming that "ta" is simply a contraction of "thank you" & is therefore childish & uneducated. This may be true. On the other hand, I have noticed how my Swedish second cousins say "tack" for thank you. I did a little research & discovered that all the Scandinavian languages use something very similar to "ta", with Norwegian "takk" & Danish "tak", while people who speak continental Germanic languages say something more akin to "thank you" e.g. "dank u" in Dutch or "danke" in German. I know this might sound a little far-fetched, but perhaps it is worth reminding ourselves that most of Northern England was a part of the Danelaw for many years i.e. it was heavily colonised by Vikings. It is widely acknowledged that one of the reasons for the North/South divide in England is the fact that Northern England was strongly influenced by Scandinavian culture & language, while Southern England stayed more true to the Anglo Saxon culture of the original English. As for the use of "ta" in Scotland: Scottish English is perhaps more similar to Northern English than Southern English, due to Northern England being much closer to Scotland.


I'm thinking the Germanic and Scandinavian root sounds likely. That it may not have been mentioned or used in print until the 1700's, as has been mentioned in this thread, could just mean the word was actually used commonly in Britain for many centuries before that (beginning as German, Dutch or Scandinavian) and gradually evolved to 'ta'... only surviving as a first print instance much later on in the cited book because it simply isn't a word anyone thought appropriate to commit to print once it had become a quick, more informal way of expressing thanks in conversation.


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## Odinn

I haven't seen anyone yet suggest the most obvious explanation to the use of "Ta".

 A much more "closer to home" explanation is that "Ta" is short for the Scottish Gaelic "_Tapadh leat_", pronounced "tappa let" or "tappo leet" (depending on who you ask) with a strong TA-sound at the beginning. This would also explain why the use is more frequent the closer to Scotland you get.

Being a Scandinavian myself, who lived in Yorkshire for a couple of years back in the days, I find the Scandinavian link to the use of "Ta" through the word "tack" to be at least secondary. Perhaps Vikings had an influence on this specific Scottish Gaelic expression, perhaps they have a common root or perhaps its just a coincidence.  In any case, I find a closer explanation to be more probable than a far one.


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## shokan

Odinn said:


> I haven't seen anyone yet suggest the most obvious explanation to the use of "Ta".
> 
> A much more "closer to home" explanation is that "Ta" is short for the Scottish Gaelic "_Tapadh leat_", pronounced "tappa let" or "tappo leet" (depending on who you ask) with a strong TA-sound at the beginning. This would also explain why the use is more frequent the closer to Scotland you get.



Interesting. Could be! What is the meaning and usage in situations for "_Tapadh leat_"?  

Btw, "ta" was used, it seemed, by everyone in a southern UK locale (London) in the early 70s. Maybe it spread from north to south.


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## london calling

shokan said:


> Btw, "ta" was used, it seemed, by everyone in a southern UK locale (London) in the early 70s. Maybe it spread from north to south.


Which is what I said, many posts ago!


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## shokan

When I moved to London from N.America and started hearing "ta", I thought of the old, rather effete-sounding expression "ta ta", meaning 'bye, bye', that I've heard used in old movies from the 30s-40s. Always wondered if there was some kind of relation to "ta", meaning "thanks", but I can't think of any possibility there.


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## Alxmrphi

shokan said:


> When I moved to London from N.America and started hearing "ta", I thought of the old, rather effete-sounding expression "ta ta", meaning 'bye, bye', that I've heard used in old movies from the 30s-40s. Always wondered if there was some kind of relation to "ta", meaning "thanks", but I can't think of any possibility there.


Hmm, it's "*ta ra*" up here in the North.


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## shokan

Alxmrphi said:


> Hmm, it's "*ta ra*" up here in the North.



I've heard of that variant of "ta ta". In fact, I've never heard "ta ta" in person, just those old flicks. Either one, though, wonder if there's a relation somehow to "ta". Doubt it.


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## london calling

shokan said:


> When I moved to London from N.America and started hearing "ta", I thought of the old, rather effete-sounding expression "ta ta", meaning 'bye, bye', that I've heard used in old movies from the 30s-40s. Always wondered if there was some kind of relation to "ta", meaning "thanks", but I can't think of any possibility there.



We've discussed _ta-ta in this thread_ as well. I think you should start from the first page!


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## ewie

Alxmrphi said:


> Hmm, it's "*ta ra*" up here in the North.


Or _ta *d*a_


shokan said:


> the old, rather effete-sounding expression "ta ta", meaning 'bye, bye'


The very next time I hear a tattooed, knuckle-trailing, rottweiler-toting thug say it, I shall be sure to point out his effeteness


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## shokan

ewie said:


> Or _ta *d*a_
> 
> The very next time I hear a tattooed, knuckle-trailing, rottweiler-toting thug say it, I shall be sure to point out his effeteness



Only if he's waving a hanky.


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## Keith Bradford

Of course *Ta *is used, almost daily in this house.

For example, I pass an e-mail across to my wife, with the message: "Could you convert this into .doc from .docx?"  Now, how am I going to thank her?  "Thank you" is far too formal; "Thanks" a little dismissive.  So I use the casual but affectionate "Ta!".


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## Odinn

shokan said:


> Interesting. Could be! What is the meaning and usage in situations for "_Tapadh leat_"?
> 
> Btw, "ta" was used, it seemed, by everyone in a southern UK locale (London) in the early 70s. Maybe it spread from north to south.



Its my understanding that "_Tapadh leat_" is an informal "Thank you", used in the exact same way as "Ta" is used now outside of Scottish Gaelic. I had a link, but I'm not able to post it.

Another interesting observation is that the spread of "Ta" seems to coincide with the "Acts of Union" between Scotland and England. I imagine that it would have been, at that time, much more socially acceptable to invent/adopt 'slur' of a Union-language than it would have been before. It would also indeed mean that the spread was initially north to south.


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## shokan

Odinn said:


> Another interesting observation is that the spread of "Ta" seems to coincide with the "Acts of Union" between Scotland and England. I


Just curious, how do you know this?


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## Odinn

shokan said:


> Just curious, how do you know this?



I don't. That's why I gave myself the out "seems".

But if it is indeed correct that the spread of "Ta" in/to the English language can be traced to the 1700's, it does coincide with the "Acts of Union". Which I find very interesting for the reasons I mentioned.


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## shokan

The thing about Ta is it wouldn't ordinarily show up in print and, so, hard to trace its beginnings. You'd have to go around asking old folks over the length and breadth of the land to maybe get a sense of whether or not it's a recent thing or older than a couple generations, and where it showed up first.


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## Odinn

shokan said:


> The thing about Ta is it wouldn't ordinarily show up in print and, so, hard to trace its beginnings.



Agreed.



shokan said:


> You'd have to go around asking old folks over the length and breadth of  the land to maybe get a sense of whether or not it's a recent thing or  older than a couple generations, and where it showed up first.



Not very practical, since most people from the 1700's and older are presumably dead . And the 1700's seems (notice my out) to be the oldest known written source, hinting the use is at least contemporary but possibly older.

But your point is valid. There is no way for us to know for sure that I'm aware of.


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## PaulQ

shokan said:


> The thing about Ta is it wouldn't ordinarily show up in print and, so, hard to trace its beginnings. You'd have to go around asking old folks over the length and breadth of the land to maybe get a sense of whether or not it's a recent thing or older than a couple generations, and where it showed up first.


fortunately, the OED has done this:





> An infantile form of ‘thank-you’, now also commonly in colloq. adult use.
> 
> _1772   Mrs. Delany in Life & Corr. (1861) I. 457   You would not say ‘Ta’ to me for my congratulation._


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## shokan

So, at least 1861. Interesting. That adoption from infantile could also be baby talk not for thanks but a very old word that sounds more like "ta". Back to square one.


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## Odinn

And that's possibly correct if Mrs. Delany is expressing its origin and not merely her opinion on contemporary use.

As a parallel, would we describe "mom" or "mum" as infantile or informal? Perhaps both?

What I observe as 'against' the infantile of 'thank you' or Scandinavian 'tack' is that the Ta-part in those expressions does not sound the same as Ta. Ta does however sound the same as the ta-part in "_Tapadh leat_".

Perhaps Mrs. Delany is right that Ta is infantile, but for "_Tapadh leat_" instead of thank you (and "_Tapadh leat_" means 'thank you' in an informal way anyway, so its use would have lost no meaning). Then, just like the use of "mom" it would not be considered infantile, even if it is _really_, but informal, endearing and affectionate. Am I splitting hairs here? Does this make any sense to anyone else?


----------



## shokan

Odinn said:


> And that's possibly correct if Mrs. Delany is expressing its origin and not merely her opinion on contemporary use.
> 
> As a parallel, would we describe "mom" or "mum" as infantile or informal? Perhaps both?
> 
> What I observe as 'against' the infantile of 'thank you' or Scandinavian 'tack' is that the Ta-part in those expressions does not sound the same as Ta. Ta does however sound the same as the ta-part in "_Tapadh leat_".
> 
> Perhaps Mrs. Delany is right that Ta is infantile, but for "_Tapadh leat_" instead of thank you (and "_Tapadh leat_" means 'thank you' in an informal way anyway, so its use would have lost no meaning). Then, just like the use of "mom" it would not be considered infantile, even if it is _really_, but informal, endearing and affectionate. Am I splitting hairs here? Does this make any sense to anyone else?


I agree. I've been thinking, since you mentioned this possible origin explanation, that it's a good candidate. How is 
"_Tapadh leat_" pronounced? Sounds-like version preferable because I don't know most of those pronunciation symbols.


----------



## Odinn

shokan said:


> I agree. I've been thinking, since you mentioned  this possible origin explanation, that it's a good candidate. How is
> "_Tapadh leat_" pronounced? Sounds-like version preferable because I don't know most of those pronunciation symbols.



I cant link since I'm new on the forum, but do a Google on "tapadh  leat pronunciation" and go to the Forvo page. There you will find an  Irish and an English variant on pronunciation. The english one is pretty close to how my friends used to pronounce it.


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## shokan

Odinn said:


> I cant link since I'm new on the forum, but do a Google on "tapadh  leat pronunciation" and go to the Forvo page. There you will find an  Irish and an English variant on pronunciation. The english one is pretty close to how my friends used to pronounce it.


Sounds right for a shortened version or baby talk short version. Is "ta" use more prevalent in the north, I wonder?


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## ewie

I'm fairly sure that the previous 100-odd posts demonstrated that _ta_ is used pretty much everywhere in the UK.  (I presume you were asking about the UK, Shokan)

If someone manages one day to prove incontrovertibly that English _ta_ is derived from Gaelic _tapadh leat/leibh_, I will eat not only my hat but my socks, shirt, best lambswool sweater, left foot, kidneys, and anything else I can lay hands on.  As someone said earlier, the influence of Gaelic on English ~ even on _Scots_ ~ is vanishingly small.  I don't say it's impossible, just that I'm prepared to bet most of my clothing and internal organs on its _not_ being derived from Gaelic


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## PaulQ

shokan said:


> So, at least 1861.


No, it was *written *in 1772, and published in 1861 



Odinn said:


> And that's possibly correct if Mrs. Delany is expressing its origin and not merely her opinion on contemporary use.


Mrs Delany is expressing nothing. She is simply using the word "Ta". 



> What I observe as 'against' the infantile of 'thank you' or Scandinavian 'tack' is that the Ta-part in those expressions does not sound the same as Ta. Ta does however sound the same as the ta-part in "_Tapadh leat_".


We would then expect some record of "Ta" first in Ireland, and that is lacking. 





> Perhaps Mrs. Delany is right that Ta is infantile,


Mrs Delaney never said that. She was born in England despite her Irish name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Delany)





> Am I splitting hairs here?


Probably 


> Does this make any sense to anyone else?


Not to me, Irish has given surprisingly little to English, and you would have to show that "_Tapadh leat_" is contracted in Irish to "Ta" to even start the conjecture.


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## Odinn

ewie said:


> I don't say it's impossible, just that I'm prepared to bet most of my clothing and internal organs on its _not_ being derived from Gaelic



When I'm really sure about something, I usually say I'm prepared to bet my left hand, but not my right (I'm right handed if you have to ask...) .


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## shokan

Modern Danish for thanks is Tak, probably already mentioned here. It's pronunciation is somewhere between Tack and Tock. Were not the Danes a large part of what we call the Anglo-Saxons in England beginning about 1200 years ago?


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## Wordsmyth

shokan said:


> _[...] _Were not the Danes a large part of what we call the Anglo-Saxons in England beginning about 1200 years ago?


 Not for lengthy discussion here, as it'd go off-topic, but I can't let that slide by without at least saying "Umm, no". The Angles and Saxons invaded Britain from the 5th century onwards. The Danes were a separate people (Vikings, in fact) who arrived 400 years later (9th century), and did a lot of Anglo-Saxon bashing.

The Danes spoke a North Germanic (Scandinavian) language, whereas Angles and Saxons spoke West Germanic languages. However, the Danes did control much of England for most of a century and did contribute a number of words to the English language, though I've no idea whether that included "tak" as the origin of "ta".

Ws


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## Odinn

Wordsmyth,

You explained this point a lot better than I did. One  of the things that I don't like with 'the Scandinavian connection' is  the several century gap between the decline of the vikings and the first  record of "Ta".

Sure, the commoners 'slur' would be much less  recorded, but as far as I know there is absolutely nothing for over 600  years. If it was part of the language for that long and still managed to  stay under the radar, even as commoner 'slur', it is most definitely a  feat in itself. It just seems very farfetched to me, but what do I know?


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## Wordsmyth

As you say, Odinn, what do I know? I certainly don't, and probably nobody does. The problem with chasing the origins of a word as short and simple as "Ta" is that it's easy to make those two letters fit into all sorts of possible roots. I'm definitely not going to bet any parts of my body on either the Danish or the Irish/Scottish theories.

Ws


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## Odinn

PaulQ said:


> We would then expect some record of "Ta" first in Ireland, and that is lacking.



No. If "Ta" comes from Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic is completely irrelevant. Scottish Gaelic is further up the 'language tree' so the lacking of "Ta" in Irish Gaelic only further enhances the argument that it comes Scottish Gaelic. In fact, you would expect "Ta" NOT to be found in Irish. 




PaulQ said:


> Not to me, Irish has given surprisingly little to English, and you would have to show that "_Tapadh leat_" is contracted in Irish to "Ta" to even start the conjecture.



Again, no. For the same reason.


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## PaulQ

PaulQ said:


> Not to me, Irish has given surprisingly little to English, and you would have to show that "Tapadh leat" is contracted in Irish to "Ta" to even start the conjecture.





Odinn said:


> No. If "Ta" comes from Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic is completely irrelevant. Scottish Gaelic is further up the 'language tree' so the lacking of "Ta" in Irish Gaelic only further enhances the argument that it comes Scottish Gaelic.


That is not logical. If "Ta" were _lacking _in Bantu would that enhance anything? 





> In fact, you would expect "Ta" NOT to be found in Irish.


OK, where is it shown that "Tapadh leat" in *Scottish *Gaelic is contracted to "Ta"? I've had a look at a Scottish Gaelic dictionary, and there is no note of this, but _tà,thà_ appears as the present tense of the verb to be, which, assuming a similar pronunciation to our "ta" would lead to confusion...


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## frenchifried

Like it or not, "ta" is still alive and - ticking!

(As an aside Roi Marphile - I have adopted as from now -  "childfish" - no other word will ever do!)


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## Wordsmyth

"Ta" is indeed alive and well, so to mark the 150-post milestone in this thread (!), I'd like to say "Ta much" to all contributors with whom I have an easy and informal relationship in the forum, and "Thank you" to everyone else —which is pretty much how I use those forms in everyday speech.

Ws


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## Einstein

I confess that I haven't read through all this thread! Just a quick comment about *ta-ta*, meaning goodbye. I do find this a bit childish and I see it as being used half-jokingly between adults or when speaking to little children. I don't know why the Americans think it sounds like upper-class British - the upper classes would be the last to use this expression.
As for *ta-ra*, this comes from a northern tendency - especially Liverpool - to substitute t's with r's, so "what about..." becomes "worrabout...".

*Ta*, for thank you, is definitely not childish. I too have heard the Scandinavian explanation, but rather than coming from Viking invasions it came from Swedish sailors calling in at Newcastle. I've no idea whether this is more accurate, it's just another version to think about.


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## Odinn

PaulQ said:


> That is not logical. If "Ta" were _lacking _in Bantu would that enhance anything?



If the assumption that "Ta" comes from Scottish Gaelic is true, it would not be found in Irish Gaelic. If it was found in Irish, it would not be specifically Scottish, now would it? It would be Irish. That "Ta" is lacking in Irish enhances the argument that it comes from Scottish. You don't see that/agree?




PaulQ said:


> OK, where is it shown that "Tapadh leat" in *Scottish *Gaelic is contracted to "Ta"?



Nowhere that I'm aware of.




PaulQ said:


> I've had a look at a Scottish Gaelic dictionary, and there is no note of this, but _tà,thà_ appears as the present tense of the verb to be, which, assuming a similar pronunciation to our "ta" would lead to confusion...



Possibly. As Wordsmyth also pointed out, and as I also mentions earlier, "Ta" is to short to find a specific root. It fits in too many places and could for that matter be absolutely coincidental.


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