# subway / underground / metro / underpass / overpass



## ywf

Hello, forum.

I am wondering if the three words (subway & underground & metro) are completely interchangeable when they mean _electric underground railway, _and if not, what are the differences among those words?

Thanks in advance.


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## Michel09

They can all be used _interchangeably_, especially in certain locations.

Take note that the _Underground_ is usually a British term for the [London] subway.  The _metro_ is usually used in relation to the Paris subway.


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## ywf

Thank you for your reply.

Am I right in thinking that _subway_ is the most generic term when referring to a underground railway?
Is _Beijing subway_ preferred to _Beijing metro_ and _Beijing underground_?


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## Michel09

I would say, in my opinion, that _subway_ refers to a general undergroud railway.  But, in my experience, I have really only ever heard _the Underground_ used in relation to the London subway system, and likewise with _the metro_ in Paris.


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## sdgraham

No, they cannot be used completely interchangeably since they are nicknames for specific systems in specific locations (and are not the only ones).

Note that a "subway" in the U.K. means something entirely different than it does in Chicago.

From dictionary.com

_2. Chiefly British. a short tunnel or underground passageway for pedestrians, automobiles, etc.; underpass._

On the other hand, you want to describe a specific system where, apparently, there's no suitable, existing, English nickname and it's a problem.

I would use "subway" or "underground" based upon your target audience, i.e. AE or BE.

Since Metro is best known as the Paris Métro, I would not use it generically in English.

I would also point out the formal name parenthetically on first reference. Apparently this is the Beijing Underground Railway (in translation).


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## ywf

Thank you for your explanations.

It is clear to me now.


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## rainbow84uk

Just to add, a few UK cities that I know of have overground tram networks called 'metro' or 'metrolink', which is another reason to avoid this term in general.


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## natkretep

If you're referring to a specific underground rail system, you might find that there is a preferred name for each. For example, you can use the _tube_ to refer to the London system. In Hong Kong, it is called the MTR (mass transit railway). In Singapore, it is the MRT (mass rapid transit). Interestingly, though, the system in Glasgow is officially called a Subway, but people refer to it as the underground or the tube.


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## temblor

Chinese Goetians like to use subway instead of underground railway. Most people say "subway" in Shanghai, as I observed. I don't know what people say in Peking or other cities. But there is a problem. The passages under streets are called a "subway" in China. Sometimes people get confused.


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## Franzi

If I'm discussing those train systems in general, I'd call them "subway systems".  Otherwise, I'd use the specific name that's preferred with each one.  (Frequently, this term is a nickname or acronym for the specific system and not any of the words you mentioned.)

New York: subway
San Francisco: BART
Atlanta: MARTA
Boston: The T
Paris: metro
Madrid: metro
etc.


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## Dmitry_86

How about "underpass"? How is it nowadays used in BE and AmE?


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## rusita preciosa

I think "underpass" is what you use to cross the street.


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## Dmitry_86

rusita preciosa said:


> I think "underpass" is what you use to cross the street.


 
Thanks, my dictionary also says so but I would like to confirm it by watching the comments of natives.


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## natkretep

Yes, it's used to refer to a pedestrian subway, but sometimes also to a road that goes under another road.


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## panjandrum

An underpass, BE, often refers to a road that passes under another.
This does not seem to be limited to BE, according to the Merriam-Webster definition:
_a crossing of a highway and another way (as a road or railroad) at different levels; also *:* the lower level of such a crossing_


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## Cagey

I call them _pedestrian underpasses_, as we call a road that passes under another road an _underpass_.

[Similarly, I call the ones that go over the road _pedestrian overpasses_.]


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## natkretep

Cagey said:


> [Similarly, I call the ones that go over the road _pedestrian overpasses_.]



We call them _overhead bridges_.


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## Dmitry_86

So it turns out:

Britain: subway - a path under the busy road
fly-over - a path over the busy road
underpass - a road that passes under another
overpass - a road that passes over another


USA: underpass - a path under the busy road
overpass - a path over the busy road

Do you use fly-over in the USA?


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## natkretep

Dmitry_86 said:


> So it turns out:
> 
> Britain: subway - a path under the busy road
> fly-over - a path over the busy road
> underpass - a road that passes under another
> overpass - a road that passes over another



No, a fly-over is a ROAD above another road.


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## Franzi

Dmitry_86 said:


> USA: underpass - a path under the busy road
> overpass - a path over the busy road
> 
> Do you use fly-over in the USA?



I use 'underpass' and 'overpass' exclusively for roads.  An overpass is an elevated piece of freeway that crosses over another road.

I suppose I might use '_pedestrian _overpass' or 'underpass' for something that pedestrians use, but those aren't that common most places I've lived, and I don't usually talk about them.

I don't think I would use 'flyover' for these sorts of things.


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## panjandrum

Dmitry_86 said:


> So it turns out:
> ...
> USA: underpass - a path under the busy road
> overpass - a path over the busy road
> ...


On what basis did you reach these conclusions?
From the posts above I can see AE and BE natives and dictionary references that indicate both AE and BE use underpass to refer to roads.
I don't see any mention of overpass.


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## Dmitry_86

panjandrum said:


> On what basis did you reach these conclusions?
> From the posts above I can see AE and BE natives and dictionary references that indicate both AE and BE use underpass to refer to roads.


 
Posts 12, 14 which talk about the underground "room" for crossing streets



panjandrum said:


> I don't see any mention of overpass.


 
Post 16 by Cagey


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## a little edgy

In the USA, "overpass" and "underpass" refer to *roads *going over or under other roads or possibly railroad tracks. Far from being mere paths, they could be busy highways - busier than the roads they are over- or underpassing, so to speak. For example, a freeway overpass carries a freeway - a very big, busy highway, obviously - over another, usually lesser, road.

I agree with the comment upthread that such a structure meant for pedestrians only would be called a *pedestrian* under- or overpass. I have also seen "pedestrian walkway" to refer to the same thing.


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## panjandrum

Dmitry_86 said:


> Posts 12, 14 which talk about the underground "room" for crossing streets
> Post 16 by Cagey


In both cases, the point being made in the dictionaries and by native speakers (as I see it) is that you can qualify underpass/overpass with "pedestrian", but that the normal usage is of a road under/over another road.


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## Dmitry_86

It has become much clearer now!!! I thank you all!!!


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## La_Nereida

Hi there, 

I'm not a native speaker and I'm having some problems finding the differences between subway/underground and metro.

Clearly, "subway" is in American English and "underground" in British English, but then, what's the difference between them and "metro"? When I look up the words in the dictionary I get the following definitions:

- UNDERGROUND: a railway system in which electric trains travel along passages below ground 
_*the* London Underground_

_- _SUBWAY: mainly US a railway system in which electric trains travel along passages below ground _We took the subway uptown to Yankee Stadium._

_- _METRO: an underground electric railway system in some cities, especially in France _Let's *go by* Metro._
_a metro *station*_
_the Paris metro_

_(cambirdge.org)_

_As I'm not an expert, so I can't see the difference between the definitions and the three of them are translated into Spanish in the same way (anyways, it's not the translation which bothers me... I know this is an English-only forum, but I'm just saying)_

_Thanks in advance!_
_LA_


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## ItsSnaringOutside

The terms mean the same thing. "Subway" is US English, "Underground" or "tube" in UK English; "Métro" in France, Canadian French, and other French-speaking communities. 

In Canadian English, "subway" is used. However, speakers of English in Montreal also say "metro".


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## e2efour

They mean the same thing, but in the UK, for example, we would not use metro or subway to refer to the underground (unless perhaps we were speaking to an American or a French person).


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## entangledbank

There's no difference in meaning, despite the different dictionary wording. The difference is in the application: we (at least in BrE) tend to use 'metro' for anything in Europe: the Paris metro, the St Petersburg metro or underground. I suppose I'd use it for Buenos Aires but not Sydney or Tokyo. 'Metro' is felt to be a continental European word, so I'd use it for certain foreign countries, especially if I knew that's what it was called locally.

Some places in Britain however may have a Metro: but Newcastle's appears to be mainly light rail (overground).


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## La_Nereida

That's very enlightening 
Thank you all!

LA


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## pickarooney

I would call them all by their local names - New York Subway, Paris Metro, London Underground (or Tube), Berlin U-Bahn...


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## jpyvr

I agree with the previous poster that the best bet is just to use the local name in most cases.


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## chuanliu

I also bought a very old air-conditioning machine for twenty-five dollars, a great bargain, and I like this machine. It has almost no effect on the atmosphere of the room, merely chipping the edge off the heat, and it makes a loud grinding noise reminiscent of the *subway*, so that I can snap off the lights, close my eyes, holding the damp towel at the ready, and imagine, with the first stab, that I am riding in the *underground* and being pricked by pins wielded by angry girls.

I wonder Why does White use subway and underground at the same time? Is there any special events collected with underground in Britain and angry girls? Thank you very much!


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## cyberpedant

chuanliu said:


> *
> 
> I wonder Why does White use subway and underground at the same time? *



Most good writers (in English, at least) like to avoid repeating the same word when a reasonable synonym is available.


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## natkretep

Chuanliu, please tell us were the sentence comes from. In BrE, a subway is what Americans call a pedestrian underpass (underground passage for pedestrians), whereas the underground is an underground urban rail system.


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## Copyright

_Moderator note: chuanliu's thread (post #33) was merged yesterday with this thread. The post below #33 was the same question in a new thread that was started today. 
_


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## Cagey

This is from E. B. White 's _At Turtle Bay.
_It takes place in New York City.  

We have discussed other aspects of the passage here: riding in the underground


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## Egmont

If it's in New York City, "subway" would be the natural term to use. I can understand using "underground" to avoid repetition. However, most New Yorkers writing in 1957 would have said something like "riding on the IRT" if they felt they had to use a different term. (Subway lines continued to be known by the names of the companies that originally built them for many decades after the city took control of all New York subway lines in 1940.)


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## Lamourie

A few follow-up comments for this thread:
"Flyover" is also used in the U.S. railroad industry to describe a bridge of one rail line over another, built to avoid congestion which would result when the two lines intersect at ground level.

"Underpass" and "overpass" usually have the default meaning of referring to the more major of two roads or passages (major highway passing above a small road: overpass), but the meaning can reverse if the speaker's frame of reference or location is the minor passage ("take the gravel road two miles, and look for the first house after you go through the highway underpass").

I agree that the use of generic terms "subway", "metro", "underground" etc. should reflect predominant local usage. Even better would be to use an exact term if it is the preferred name, as in "the T" in Boston, for example.  Be aware that transit systems typically includes portions that are _not_ underground but at or above ground level.


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## Copperknickers

Note that the three subterranean metro-railway networks in the UK have different names. The London one is called the Underground or Tube. The Glasgow one, after which the American ones are named, is called the Subway. The Newcastle one is called the Metro.


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## Copyright

Personally, I think it would be too specific to use the name of the subway/underground -- especially for someone writing for _The New Yorker_, which will be read by people all over the world. You often want generic, understandable terms in that context. 

If I told you I took the MTR to work this morning, you could only guess how I got here unless you were familiar with Hong Kong's transportation system. It's the Mass Transit Railway (subway/underground). And, confusingly for a Hong Konger, in Singpore it's the MRT (Mass Rapid Transit).  

So I think White has struck a very practical note in using both *subway* and *underground* -- he avoids repeating a word, but more importantly, he tells both AE and BE speakers what form of transportation it is without belaboring the point.


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## chuanliu

Thank you so much, I agree with you.


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## rxa181

[Threads have been merged at this point.  Please read down from the top to see the previous answers.  DonnyB - moderator]
Hi, everyone:

I'm watching a TV show set in Chicago and everyone refers to the subway as "the L"; when I was in San Francisco, most people took "the BART"; in New York, it's the subway, in London the tube and elsewhere in Britain, as far as I know, the underground. I'm sure there are other expressions in Canada, Australia and other nations.

I have two questions:

Is there one word that will be understood and used by everyone in the English-speaking world to refer to the underground?
What are other ways of referring to the underground in other English-speaking nations or cities?
Thank you!


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## se16teddy

See also how Wikipedia has addressed the problem: Rapid transit - Wikipedia
_Rapid transit or mass rapid transit (MRT), also known as heavy rail, metro, subway,  tube, U-Bahn, metropolitana or underground, is a type of high-capacity public transport generally found in urban areas. Unlike buses or trams, rapid transit systems are electric railways that operate on an exclusive right-of-way, which cannot be accessed by pedestrians or other vehicles of any sort, and which is often grade-separated in tunnels or on elevated railways._


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## The Newt

The "L" in Chicago is short for "elevated," so strictly speaking the name doesn't refer to a "subway" (although parts of the system are in fact underground). In New York, conversely, it wouldn't sound odd to use "subway" for the portions of the system that are above ground.


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## M'Bosa Ritchie

In Glasgow, it's officially  "The Subway" and it's all underground. The sign outside is a large S


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## JulianStuart

The Newt said:


> The "L" in Chicago is short for "elevated," so strictly speaking the name doesn't refer to a "subway" (although parts of the system are in fact underground). In New York, conversely, it wouldn't sound odd to use "subway" for the portions of the system that are above ground.


 
Most of the systems that have "underground" lines also have on- or above-ground tracks.  The London Underground and SF Bay Area Regional Transit (BART) have both.  I wasn't sure about the L having undergound sections, so thanks for that


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## Uncle Jack

rxa181 said:


> Is there one word that will be understood and used by everyone in the English-speaking world to refer to the underground?


Probably not, although undergrounds are very rare in Britain, with only London and Liverpool using the term as I recall (the "underground" in Liverpool is an ordinary railway, not a metro, as such). Glasgow calls theirs the subway, as M'Bosa Ritchie points out, although Glasgow also has a substantial underground section of ordinary railway. Newcastle has a relatively small underground section in their extensive Metro system.

Surface metros are more common, mostly called metros or trams depending on how much street running there is, but if you said "metro" to someone in London they might well not associate it with the underground.


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## kentix

In Chicago, people tend to refer to it as the El, even though the agency that operates it officially refers to it as the L. Of course, when it's spoken, no one knows the difference. (No one calls it the subway.)
Once and for All: Is It the El, el, L, or ‘L’?

Much of it is above ground because it is primarily an elevated train system. It goes underground in parts in downtown Chicago, but not all of it.





Stairway up to the platform.


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## natkretep

Uncle Jack said:


> Probably not, although undergrounds are very rare in Britain, with only London and Liverpool using the term as I recall (the "underground" in Liverpool is an ordinary railway, not a metro, as such).


There's also the London Overground which should be mentioned for the sake of completeness because it is part of the urban rail network for London. It is also included in the map for the London Underground. You can see that the sign for the overground is very similar to the one for the underground. London Overground - Wikipedia


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## sdgraham

kentix said:


> In Chicago, people tend to refer to it as the El, even though the agency that operates it officially refers to it as the L. Of course, when it's spoken, no one knows the difference. (No one calls it the subway.)


  The "L" started in 1892, but the underground portion didn't go into operation until the 1940s. The name stuck with the new system. As a child in Chicago, I recall seeing the crews burrowing for the underground portion.


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## EdisonBhola

Why not just say "underground train"? This would be universally understood.


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## natkretep

Because, I think, an underground train could be a mainline train rather than part of an urban transit system.


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## EdisonBhola

natkretep said:


> Because, I think, an underground train could be a mainline train rather than part of an urban transit system.


What is a mainline train?


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## JulianStuart

EdisonBhola said:


> What is a mainline train?


Did you search first?
mainline - WordReference.com Dictionary of English


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## Uncle Jack

EdisonBhola said:


> What is a mainline train?


A train. As opposed to the things this thread is talking about, for whish there appears not to be a common name in English.


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## Serg.ich

[This question and the following posts have been added to a previous existing thread.  DonnyB - moderator.]
Hello. At university my teacher told us that we should forget the word "metro" as it is not used in the English speaking countries nowadays. Is it true?


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## london calling

Welcome.

We say 'Metro' if that is the word used in another country, for example the 'Paris Metro'. We don't say that about our own light rail systems unless it's part of the name , for example Valley Metro rail (Arizona).


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## JulianStuart

Your teacher is not familiar with the world  Metro is in the _names_ of many systems. Washington DC has a "Metro" and there are quite a few others in English-speaking countries, listed here.


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## Wordy McWordface

Your teacher has misled you. The term 'Metro' is not a synonym for underground (BrE) or subway (AmE) .  It never has been.

We use the word 'Metro' in English - note the capital 'M' denoting a proper noun - only if a particular city happens to have adopted that name for their transport network. The most obvious one is the Paris Metro. We talk about travelling on the Metro in the French capital because that's what the Parisians themselves call it.  Manchester, for example, has a rail/tram system which is also called the Metro  - and it doesn't even go underground.  Nor does the Valley Metro rail. In other words, 'Metro' is just a name.

 Unless you're travelling underground in Paris or Washington, for example, you should forget about the word 'metro' - not because it's an outdated term, but because it's the wrong word.  New York has never had a metro: it's always had a subway. London has an underground, otherwise known as the 'Tube'.   So your teacher is right, but for the wrong reason.

I hope that helps.


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## DonnyB

Serg.ich said:


> At university my teacher told us that we should forget the word "metro" as it is not used in the English speaking countries nowadays. Is it true?


Yes, in the UK we don't _generally_ tend to use the word 'metro' to refer to an underground rail system. But some cities have chosen to call theirs by the name "metro": the 'Paris Metro' is a very famous one, but in England we also have the "Tyne & Wear Metro", the "Manchester Metrolink", and the "West Midlands Metro" - so the inhabitants of those cities may well refer to it colloquially as_ 'The metro'._


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## london calling

JulianStuart said:


> Washington DC has a "Metro".


The company I work for built those trains.

By the way:

Wikipedia
A *medium-capacity system* (*MCS*), also known as *light rapid transit* or *light metro*, is a rail transport system with a capacity greater than light rail, but less than typical heavy-rail rapid transit.


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## london calling

DonnyB said:


> ... "Manchester Metrolink"...


The company I work for built that too. It isn't an underground system, however. It's a light rail system (overground trams).


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## kentix

In the U.S. every city names its own system and people who live there tend to use that name, not a generic word. There isn't one generic word used to describe all systems. The best option is probably just to call it a transit system. It might have trains, buses or other options and together they form the transit system.

In Atlanta, the system is called MARTA and the trains are called MARTA trains.

In Chicago, the system is called the El (or the L) and the trains are called El trains.

How are you getting there?

I'm taking MARTA. / I'm taking the El.


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## london calling

Just a note about London in particular. As has been said, we Londoners don't refer to our mass transit/light rail systems  as  metros. The underground system is called the tube  by Londoners, or the Underground (parts of it are not underground, by the way: try taking the tube to Heathrow airport, for example). We also have the London Overground, which is a light rail system which is linked to the tube, but we don't refer to it as the tube. The same goes for the DLR, a driverless, overground light rail system. 

All connected up, all light rail underground/overground systems,  but not known as metros.


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## Uncle Jack

london calling said:


> We also have the London Overground, which is a light rail system


It isn't a light rail system, nor, for that matter, is London Underground, but the distinction is rarely made, and unless "light rail" is included in a line or network's title (Docklands Light Railway, for example), I don't think the term is widely used outside the railway industry


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## london calling

Uncle Jack said:


> It isn't a light rail system, nor, for that matter, is London Underground, but the distinction is rarely made, and unless "light rail" is included in a line or network's title (Docklands Light Railway, for example), I don't think the term is widely used outside the railway industry


I'm in the railway industry. They are very definitely light rail systems.


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