# 上午 shàngwǔ versus 早上 zǎoshang



## piano0011

My book has been not consistent with the following words shangwu and zaoshang. Apologies again for using pinyin because I am faster in typing pinyin but according to my book, shangwu should be used roughly to refer to time around 10am to before 12pm and zaoshang for early morning? Well, in this sentence, it use shangwu here:

wo mingtian shangwu ba dian ban qichuang = I get up at 8:30am tomorrow morning 

Shouldn't this be zaoshang instead of shangwu?


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## SuperXW

You are right. zaoshang would be better in that sentence.

Sometimes the context requires only one word for "morning/am", then shangwu would be the choice.
E.g. 我明天*上午*8:30起床, 10:00到公司, 11:30开会...


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## piano0011

SuperXW said:


> You are right. zaoshang would be better in that sentence.
> 
> Sometimes the context requires only one word for "morning/am", then shangwu would be the choice.
> E.g. 我明天*上午*8:30起床, 10:00到公司, 11:30开会...


thanks....


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## Giuseppe Romanazzi

上午 includes 早上.

From Lesson 19 at wearyourchinesename.com and based on the Chinese definitions given in the dictionary 现代汉语词典:



> 早上: [noun] Morning (early, until 8-9 a.m.)





> 上午: [noun] From early morning to 12 o'clock at midday



现代汉语词典:



> 早上: [名] 时间词。早晨。





> 早晨: [名] 时间词。从天将亮到八九点钟的一段时间。





> 上午: [名] 时间词。指从清晨到正午十二点的一段时间。



*Please*: write in Chinese. What you use is not even pinyin, because pinyin must include tones indications (as in the title).


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## SuperXW

Giuseppe Romanazzi said:


> 上午 includes 早上.


Technically, yes, but 早上 is more specific.
That's why 早上起床 is much more natural than 上午起床.
If you say 上午起床, people would think you are getting up late, around 10~12.


Giuseppe Romanazzi said:


> *Please*: write in Chinese. What you use is not even pinyin, because pinyin must include tones indications (as in the title).


Indeed, it would be difficult to deduct the meaning.
See how similar they are:
上午 (shang4wu3: morning) 晌午(shang3wu3: noon)


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## piano0011

SuperXW said:


> Technically, yes, but 早上 is more specific.
> That's why 早上起床 is much more natural than 上午起床.
> If you say 上午起床, people would think you are getting up late, around 10~12.
> 
> Indeed, it would be difficult to deduct the meaning.
> See how similar they are:
> 上午 (shang4wu3: morning) 晌午(shang3wu3: noon)


I will try to include the chinese characters at the same time but I am just better in typing pinyin, well I have included the tones with numbers but can understand that characters are better.


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## yuechu

Oh! I had no idea that there were two (or more) "morning" words in Chinese for telling the time. Thank you all for enlightening us Chinese learners!  I think I must have said 早上10点 or 早上11点 (for 10 am or 11 am) before and might have confused the listener. How weird does it sound to say this? (Does it sound completely wrong?)

Québécois and Belgian French has something similar to this ("avant-midi"), so I will think of that as being the equivalent to 上午！


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## henter

只能说上午包括早上。我的理解是一般9点以前算早上.



yuechu said:


> Oh! I had no idea that there were two (or more) "morning" words in Chinese for telling the time. Thank you all for enlightening us Chinese learners!  I think I must have said 早上10点 or 早上11点 (for 10 am or 11 am) before and might have confused the listener. How weird does it sound to say this? (Does it sound completely wrong?)
> 
> Québécois and Belgian French has something similar to this ("avant-midi"), so I will think of that as being the equivalent to 上午！


9点以前算早上. 还有一个相关的中文词清晨. 指早上5:00-6:30这段时间.

说个和这个无关的. 估计会被删掉. 其实这都是古代人的说法. 那个时候的人大部分日落而息， 日出而作，没有多少娱乐活动. 自然注重时间观念. 我听过的一些评书当中都有提到古人吃完晚饭以后不久就就寝. 第二天很早就起来工作.

现在好多人都熬夜看手机玩游戏. 已经没有了时间的束缚.  不少人醒来以后就是中午了. 晚上才是最活跃的时间.


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## hx1997

I don't think there is anything wrong or unnatural with 早上10/11点. I must have said something like that over like a hundred times.


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## SuperXW

hx1997 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong or unnatural with 早上10/11点. I must have said something like that over like a hundred times.


早上11点实在是有点怪了……


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## hx1997

难道是地区差异？


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## dojibear

In English *a.m.* can be used for any time from midnight to noon, while *p.m.* can be used for any time from noon to midnight.
Other time phrases are used, but "am/pm" can always be used.

The term *a.m* literally means "before noon", like 上午. Similarly *p.m.* literally mean "after noon", like 下午. 

Question: Can 上午 and 下午 be used for 12 hours each, like "a.m." and "p.m" in English?

I know there are a 普通话 terms that are common. Is it acceptable to use 上午 and 下午 instead?


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## SuperXW

dojibear said:


> In English *a.m.* can be used for any time from midnight to noon, while *p.m.* can be used for any time from noon to midnight.
> Other time phrases are used, but "am/pm" can always be used.
> 
> The term *a.m* literally means "before noon", like 上午. Similarly *p.m.* literally mean "after noon", like 下午.
> 
> Question: Can 上午 and 下午 be used for 12 hours each, like "a.m." and "p.m" in English?


In English, can you accept "Let's have dinner at *9, afternoon*" or "let's get up at *3, before noon*"? I guess not, even though p.m. / a.m. literally mean "after noon/before noon".
上午 / 下午 cannot be used in this way either.


dojibear said:


> I know there are a 普通话 terms that are common. Is it acceptable to use 上午 and 下午 instead?


I'm not sure what you meant.


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## dojibear

dojibear said:


> I know there are a 普通话 terms that are common.


This meant that Chinese has terms like 晚上 and 早上 and 凌晨, that are used with hour numbers.



SuperXW said:


> 上午 / 下午 *cannot be used *in this way either.


That answers my "is it acceptable to use" question. No.


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## retrogradedwithwind

凌晨，0-4
早上，5-9
上午，6-12
中午，11-13
下午，12-18
晚上，18-24
夜间，21-4
半夜，23-3

This is what I mean when I say those time-related words.


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## brofeelgood

How about...

清晨，4-6
早晨，6-9
傍晚，18-20


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## SuperXW

dojibear said:


> That answers my "is it acceptable to use" question. No.


No. I don't think there are words in Chinese can replace am/pm directly.
They are only equivalents of the words "morning/afternoon/evening..."


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## yuechu

What do clocks in Chinese Windows (the operating system) show, or for any other operating system? Do they also use "AM" and "PM" or is it usually a 24-hour clock?

Thank you all for your explanations!


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## henter

yuechu said:


> What do clocks in Chinese Windows (the operating system) show, or for any other operating system? Do they also use "AM" and "PM" or is it usually a 24-hour clock?
> 
> Thank you all for your explanations!


在中国普遍用的是北京时间。我听电台的时候都是说现在是北京时间... 中文里面也有AM=上午和"PM"=下午. 还有晚上. 深夜十二点叫做凌晨. 夜间到了三点叫做半夜. 这里 brofeelgood写的那个可以用作参考。


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## Giuseppe Romanazzi

yuechu said:


> What do clocks in Chinese Windows (the operating system) show, or for any other operating system? Do they also use "AM" and "PM" or is it usually a 24-hour clock?


This is what my Huawei P8-max original Chinese shows:

凌晨: 1:00-4:59AM
清晨: 5:00-6:59AM
早上: 7:00-8:59AM
上午: 9:00-10:59AM
中午: 11:00AM-12:59PM
下午: 1:00-4:59PM
傍晚: 5:00-6:59PM
晚上: 7:00-10:59PM
半夜: 11:00PM-12:59AM








When setting the alarm you can choose only between 上午 (12:00-11:59AM) and 下午 (12:00-11:59PM).

You can also set the time as 24 小时制, and in that case there is no other indication.



hx1997 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong or unnatural with 早上10/11点. I must have said something like that over like a hundred times.



I tested to say 早上好 at 10AM and 11AM in Shanghai ... and everybody corrected me. May I ask where you, hx1997, live?


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## yuechu

Thanks for the info, Henter!

Thank you, Giuseppe! Grazie mille! 😄 
That's something I'll have to get used to! (all the Chinese time expressions!)


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## hx1997

Giuseppe Romanazzi said:


> May I ask where you, hx1997, live?


I live in 广东. I honestly can't imagine people would go so far as to "correct" you, but oh well. (That said, I find saying 早上好 after 11:00 AM (inclusive) a little bit weird, but have no problem with 早上11点. )



yuechu said:


> What do clocks in Chinese Windows (the operating system) show, or for any other operating system? Do they also use "AM" and "PM" or is it usually a 24-hour clock?


Most Chinese Windows I've seen use the 24-hour system, but that can be changed in the settings.

Edit: Just checked the settings, and it seems the default in Taiwan and Singapore is the AM/PM system.


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## dojibear

I think Windows initially sets its time display based on your "Region" settings 
(Settings==>Time and Language==>Region), and/or your display language. 
Those are usually pre-set to the country where you purchased the PC. 

Most countries use the 24-hour clock.


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## Tsau

Technically yes, but in my opinion it's ok if you do not distinguish them.
上午八点半 may sound a little bit unnatural, but I believe every Chinese won't mind if you say so.


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## piano0011

I guess this shang wu and zao shang is only a rough guide? So I should use shang wu for anytime after 10am-12pm? but I guess zaoshang can be any morning, if one is not so picky.


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## monsieurdylan

piano0011 said:


> I guess this shang wu and zao shang is only a rough guide? So I should use shang wu for anytime after 10am-12pm? but I guess zaoshang can be any morning, if one is not so picky.


I think people would say "早上好" like when you just arrive at your company and greet your colleague, maybe before 9 am? But you can always say "上午好" after the sun comes out. If you study the character by character, "早" means "early", "上" basically means "up",  "午" means "noon". So "上午" means "before noon", "早上" means "early time before noon". I think... I cannot explain more.


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