# per sommi capi



## giacinta

Hi,

Could someone please explain the meaning of this expression and its derivation?
I can't see any link with "sommo" or "capi"
I can't find it in the WR dictionary but can in the Google context.  My Collins dictionary says it means "in brief".  

How would it best be translated into English.  "in dot points"?  "the main points", "in summary", 'the headings" ?

Thanks,

Giacinta


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## rubuk

This is from the Sinonimi Master site: 
"Sommi capi: sommariamente, a grandi linee, brevemente, rapidamente, riassumendo, sinteticamente, sintetizzando, stringendo, velocemente". It means summarily, briefly.

St.


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## Necsus

Hazon too simply suggests _'_briefly (_o_ summarily)'.


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## giacinta

Thank you Rubuk and Necsus!

G


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## Hermocrates

Rubuk and Necsus have already explained to you the figurative meaning of this expression. 

In case it helps I'll explain to you its literal meaning: "sommi capi" = "principali punti/riferimenti". 

"Per sommi capi" is simply a fixed expression. 


Rye


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## giacinta

ryenart said:


> Rubuk and Necsus have already explained to you the figurative meaning of this expression.
> 
> In case it helps I'll explain to you its literal meaning: "sommi capi" = "principali punti/riferimenti".
> 
> "Per sommi capi" is simply a fixed expression.
> 
> 
> Rye


 

Thank you ryenart!

In what context would this expression be used?  In ordinary every day conversation or only in a formal context or written context?
This is what interests me most.  I want to become familiar with "every day" language!

Thanks,

Giacinta


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## Necsus

giacinta said:


> In what context would this expression be used? In ordinary every day conversation or only in a formal context or written context?


It's peculiar to everyday speech, but no so commonly used, in my opinion.


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## Aidone

Here is an example which I cannot translate perfectly: Idilia has just said that she is afraid of swimming and doesn't even fill the bath completely. "Fabiana l'ascoltava comprendendo per sommi capi: non sapeva che volesse dire idiosincrasia." (Un Gesto, Una Parola, Un Silenzio, Liala).
Fabiana listened, understanding generally but not knowing if she should call it idiosyncratic.


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## underhouse

Aidone said:


> Here is an example which I cannot translate perfectly: Idilia has just said that she is afraid of swimming and doesn't even fill the bath completely. "Fabiana l'ascoltava comprendendo per sommi capi: non sapeva che volesse dire idiosincrasia." (Un Gesto, Una Parola, Un Silenzio, Liala).
> Fabiana listened, understanding broadly? but non knowing if she should call it idiosyncratic.


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## Aidone

Broadly sounds as good as generally to me. Actually I was a little unsure of how the second part, "non sapeva..." tied in.


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## underhouse

Aidone said:


> Broadly sounds as good as generally to me. Actually I was a little unsure of how the second part, "non sapeva..." tied in.



Non sapeva che volesse dire idiosincrasia.

Penso che questa voglia dire:

Non sapeva cos'era l'idiosincrasia.

He didn't know what idiosyncrasy is.


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## Aidone

So if we translate the entire phrase we get: Fabiana listened, understanding only broadly because she didn't know the meaning of the word idiosyncrasy or ... because she didn't know the concept idiosyncratic.


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## underhouse

Aidone said:


> So if we translate the entire phrase we get: Fabiana listened, understanding only broadly because she didn't know the meaning of the word idiosyncrasy or ... because she didn't know the concept idiosyncratic. this is how I understand it


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## giacinta

It really depends doesn't it on whether someone has used the word "idiosincrasia" in the conversation immediately beforehand?  
Giacinta


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## Aidone

And you are right. Idilia says "Mio Padre, che non è un uomo qualunque e  che capisce molte cose, non tenta nulla per vincere questo mio terrore dell'acqua. Dice che è idiosincrasia."


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## AlabamaBoy

My Father, who is no ordinary man, and who understands many things, doesn't even try to overcome my terror of water. He says it's an idiosyncrasy. Fabiana listened only getting the general meaning, because she really did not understand idiosyncrasies/(the word "idiosyncrasy").


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## Gianfry

Then I think that "Fabiana listened, understanding only broadly: she didn't know what idiosyncrasy meant" would be a more appropriate translation. As to the meaning, of course: there must be a better English rendering than mine 
That said, the sentence sounds a bit odd to me: the author speaks of "comprendere per sommi capi" which implies involving a whole chunk of speech, but then points out that the problem was the word "idiosincrasia". Uhm...


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## Aidone

Well there was a paragraph describing this fear which I did not include, so there I think "because she didn't know the meaning of the word idiosyncrasy" is a good translation.


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## King Crimson

Six years after the OP I would say that an acceptable translation for "raccontare qualcosa per sommi capi" ("per sommi capi" is a fixed expression never used in isolation) could be "to give a potted history", for example "Give me a potted history of the Roman Empire".


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## Aidone

I have looked up "potted history" and it does mean, briefly and superficially summarized, a history that is abridged, brief and simplified. It is a rarely used expression. If we wish to translate the expression, I would prefer something like "to describe something hitting just the main points", or "give me a history of the Roman Empire covering just the main points."


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## King Crimson

Yes, "per sommi capi" too can have that meaning, it all depends on the context. However, I'm not sure that "potted" does necessarily mean “superficially summarized”, for example the OALD just says “(of a book, or a story) in a short simple form”, which has a neutral/positive connotation.
As an additional example, here we have A Potted History of Great Britain and I don’t think someone would write a book to give a superficially summarized history of his own country. But perhaps there is a AE/BE divide here, I see from the OALD that “potted” (with the meaning we are discussing) is classified as BE and most of the many hits from a Google search are from BE websites.


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## MR1492

KC,

I would tend to agree that "potted" meaning "a summary" is more a BE than AE word.  Honestly, until reading this today, I had never heard the term "potted" used in that fashion!  It does appear in AE dictionaries but is listed as "simplified or abridged" but the BE listing is "concise and superficial."  

Interesting.

Phil


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## King Crimson

Ciao Phil, maybe we could consider it for inclusion in our file "Termini che hanno una traduzione diversa in American English e in British English"


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## MR1492

King Crimson said:


> Ciao Phil, maybe we could consider it for inclusion in our file "Termini che hanno una traduzione diversa in American English e in British English"



È un buon idea, KC!  After you, sir!

Phil


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## sorry66

MR1492 said:


> It does appear in AE dictionaries but is listed as "simplified or abridged" but the BE listing is "concise and superficial."


Not so different really.


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## King Crimson

As I said earlier I think the difference is made by the context: in cases like the one I mentioned above (A Potted History of Great Britain) or this one (A Potted History: Thomas Heatherwick’s Architectural Gardens) the connotation is neutral (i.e. "simplified or abridged" or "giving a short summary of the facts") but in other cases "potted" can take a negative connotation. In this regard, however, the one dictionary I have found -- the MW -- reporting this connotation (that is, "briefly and superficially summarized"), in order to stress this interpretation uses a quotation ("a dull, pedestrian _potted_ history") that needs to add to pejorative qualifiers (dull and pedestrian) to "potted": I might be wrong, but it's like "potted" doesn’t have an inherently negative meaning, but takes it only when accompanied by other qualifiers (or it is used in a clearly negative context).
As a side note, it seems to me that “potted” belongs to a high register, but then “per sommi capi” is rather formal too.


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## sorry66

Phil, said it was the other  way round. #22.
Yes, in BE there's nothing pejorative about it. I wouldn't say that the 'register' is high; it's fairly informal.


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## King Crimson

sorry66 said:


> Phil, said it was the other  way round. #22.


 
I'm not sure I've got your point S...


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## sorry66

King Crimson said:


> the *MW* -- reporting this connotation (that is, "briefly and superficially summarized"), in order to stress this interpretation uses a quotation ("a dull, pedestrian _potted_ history") t





MR1492 said:


> the *BE* listing is "concise and superficial.


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## King Crimson

Ok, but in my last post I wasn't discussing AE/BE differences (that point had already been covered). I was just focusing on the differences in the connotation of the term, regardless of its source, where it's used etc. At any rate, in post #21 I was citing another BE source (OALD) giving a different meaning than the MW.
Apologies if that wasn't clear.


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## sorry66

Ok, sorry, it didn't seem that way.  Still doesn't be honest.

There seems to be two main points:
1. In AE they don't use it (often).
2. If they do, they're more likely to think it's superficial (whereas for BE it's neutral)

Another point: I would not use it for something academic, as I said it's fairly informal. I'd buy a 'potted history' for a teenager or if I wanted an easy (and quick) read for myself.


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## King Crimson

I see your point S, yet I'm not sure I fully agree about your point #2 when you say that in BE it's always neutral (the example sentence from the MW makes me think that in BE too the meaning depends on the context).
About the term being informal: would you classify the article from the second link in my post #26 (A Potted History: Thomas Heatherwick’s Architectural Gardens) as formal, informal or somewhere in between?


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## london calling

A potted history is indeed a brief summary of facts, but to be honest to me it smacks to me of abridged editions, Reader's Digest, easy readers  and all that sort of thing, so it is often superficial in that sense. In the workplace I can't imagine asking anyone for a potted history of a given situation. I'll give you a real-life example. At work, we were having issues with a foreign supplier. This is what I was asked to do:

_Mi scrivi per sommi capi la storia dall'inizio?_

I.e. they asked me for a written summary. I would quite definitely *not* describe the summary I wrote as a potted history, if not jokingly. My summary clarified and solved the issue, by the way.


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## sorry66

I never said 'always'!
The term is more informal than formal; that says nothing about the _content_ of any given article/book - the one you cite is neither/nor in my opinion. In English journalism, a serious article can have a light title to draw in readers.
_Looking forward to that Garden Bridge, by the way!_


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## King Crimson

So, after this (maybe) too long digression would you guys think that "descrivere qualcosa per sommi capi" can be translated as "give a potted history"?
P.S. I'm not implying that this is the _best_ translation, just asking whether it can be one of the possible translations (and, in light of the above discussion, to be used in the right context).


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## london calling

In the right context, yes. KC..



sorry66 said:


> I never said 'always'!
> The term is more informal than formal; that says nothing about the _content_ of any given article/book - the one you cite is neither/nor in my opinion. In English journalism, a serious article can have a light title to draw in readers.
> _Looking forward to that Garden Bridge, by the way!_



Which post are you replying to?


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## sorry66

Given that you need to include the meaning of post # 8 in a general translation, I would say 'broad principles' is the best fit.

To LC, I was replying to KingC!

'Give a potted history' could work in some contexts!


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