# Swedish: jag som börjar, hur mycket snö som helst



## mihi

Hej hej!

I'm having a problem understanding what this sentence is trying to say exactly, specifically the parts in bold.

"Jag *som börjar* snacka om “vårfeelings” osv redan, så kommer det *hur mycket snö som helst*."_ (Sentence from isabelles.nu)_

My guess is that it means - "As I start talking about spring feelings etc, a load of snow arrives." But I don't understand the grammar, could somebody break it down for me?

A million thanks med tacksamhet!


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## MattiasNYC

It doesn't strike me as particularly "good" grammar, albeit understandable. I'm guessing someone can explain it better, but let me give you a different example and you'll see how even a Swede can find it a peculiar structure - suppose a teacher warns his students:

"*Den som börjar* snacka under min lektion *blir skickad* till rektorn!" = "*The one who starts* talking during my class *gets sent* to the headmaster!"

The way I see it we really need the two parts in green. So that's why it looks odd to me in Swedish. It's almost as if the English version read "I, who started talking about 'spring feelings' etc already, and then there's all this snow." See? Looks odd. I would possibly 'feel better' about it if it was written differently:

_"Jag *som börjar* snacka om “vårfeelings” osv redan*...* så kommer det *hur mycket snö som helst*."_

That way it looks to me as an unfinished first statement with a second following a pause and juxtaposing the first.

The gist of it is close to what you wrote. "I start talking about spring feelings etc, and then all this snow arrives". I think you need to make clear the irony somehow, as that's what the Swedish text hints at (to me at least). The way you wrote it I would possibly see it more neutrally.

_*

"hur mycket snö som helst"*_... "hur [adjective] ([noun]) som helst" is partially a set phrase I guess. It's basically a way of saying it's a very large or small quantity. You see a huge boa constrictor at the zoo: "Ormen var hur lång som helst!"... Or, arguably somewhat related, you tell your friend about this gorgeous chick you saw yesterday: "Hon var hur snygg som helst!"....

It's interesting, I've lived abroad now for over a decade, and some Swedish phrases I'll use without thinking, like this one, yet when I keep saying it or thinking about it it begins to sound extremely odd, so I understand your confusion.


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## AutumnOwl

"Jag *som börjar* snacka om “vårfeelings” osv redan nu och sen så kommer det *hur mycket snö som helst*." is an other way to make the sentence "feel better", to make the coming of the snow a disappointment/set back after having got spring feelings.


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## Svenke

MattiasNYC said:


> "hur [adjective] ([noun]) som helst" is partially a set phrase I guess. It's basically a way of saying it's a very large or small quantity. You see a huge boa constrictor at the zoo: "Ormen var hur lång som helst!"... Or, arguably somewhat related, you tell your friend about this gorgeous chick you saw yesterday: "Hon var hur snygg som helst!"....
> 
> It's interesting, I've lived abroad now for over a decade, and some Swedish phrases I'll use without thinking, like this one, yet when I keep saying it or thinking about it it begins to sound extremely odd, so I understand your confusion.



And this kind of expression seems to be used only in Swedish and not the other Scandinavian languages, at least not in Norwegian.


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## Ben Jamin

MattiasNYC said:


> It doesn't strike me as particularly "good" grammar, albeit understandable. I'm guessing someone can explain it better, but let me give you a different example and you'll see how even a Swede can find it a peculiar structure - suppose a teacher warns his students:
> 
> "*Den som börjar* snacka under min lektion *blir skickad* till rektorn!" = "*The one who starts* talking during my class *gets sent* to the headmaster!"
> 
> The way I see it we really need the two parts in green. So that's why it looks odd to me in Swedish. It's almost as if the English version read "I, who started talking about 'spring feelings' etc already, and then there's all this snow." See? Looks odd. I would possibly 'feel better' about it if it was written differently:
> 
> _"Jag *som börjar* snacka om “vårfeelings” osv redan*...* så kommer det *hur mycket snö som helst*."_
> 
> That way it looks to me as an unfinished first statement with a second following a pause and juxtaposing the first.
> 
> The gist of it is close to what you wrote. "I start talking about spring feelings etc, and then all this snow arrives". I think you need to make clear the irony somehow, as that's what the Swedish text hints at (to me at least). The way you wrote it I would possibly see it more neutrally.
> 
> _*
> 
> "hur mycket snö som helst"*_... "hur [adjective] ([noun]) som helst" is partially a set phrase I guess. It's basically a way of saying it's a very large or small quantity. You see a huge boa constrictor at the zoo: "Ormen var hur lång som helst!"... Or, arguably somewhat related, you tell your friend about this gorgeous chick you saw yesterday: "Hon var hur snygg som helst!"....
> 
> It's interesting, I've lived abroad now for over a decade, and some Swedish phrases I'll use without thinking, like this one, yet when I keep saying it or thinking about it it begins to sound extremely odd, so I understand your confusion.


I think that the word "som" shouldn't be there. It has no meaning in the sentence. It looks as if the speaker began one sentence but did not complete it, and then concluded with an end of another sentence, but the second sentence lacks a beginning. 
It is acceptable in speech, but a bad example for written language.


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## AutumnOwl

Ben Jamin said:


> I think that the word "som" shouldn't be there. It has no meaning in the sentence. It looks as if the speaker began one sentence but did not complete it, and then concluded with an end of another sentence, but the second sentence lacks a beginning.
> It is acceptable in speech, but a bad example for written language.


I don't agree with that "som" shouldn't be there, for me the "som" goes with "redan", the sentence can be written as: "_Jag som redan börjar snacka om "vårfeelings" osv, så kommer det hur mycket snö som helst_", "I who already have began talking about springfeelings, then there comes loads and loads of snow", it's the separation of "som" and "redan" makes the first part of the sentence sounding odd.


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## Ben Jamin

AutumnOwl said:


> I don't agree with that "som" shouldn't be there, for me the "som" goes with "redan", the sentence can be written as: "_Jag som redan börjar snacka om "vårfeelings" osv, så kommer det hur mycket snö som helst_", "I who already have began talking about springfeelings, then there comes loads and loads of snow", it's the separation of "som" and "redan" makes the first part of the sentence sounding odd.


 After '*Jeg som* _redan börjar snacka' _one expects a continuation of the sentence with something that relates to the speaker, as "som" is a peg to hang something related on, but it does not come. For example ""_Jag som redan börjar snacka om "vårfeelings, är besviken ..."_


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## myšlenka

Ben Jamin said:


> After '*Jeg som* _redan börjar snacka' _one expects a continuation of the sentence with something that relates to the speaker, as "som" is a peg to hang something related on, but it does not come. For example ""_Jag som redan börjar snacka om "vårfeelings, är besviken ..."_


As AutumnOwl explains in #3, the construction expresses disappointment. There is an (almost) identical construction in Norwegian. Ex:  A person has planned a trip to London and is looking forward to it, but gets sick and cannot go after all. To express disappointment, s/he says: (_Og) jeg som har gledet meg sånn!_

I personally prefer to use perfect aspect in that kind of sentence, but Swedish might do it otherwise


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## Ben Jamin

myšlenka said:


> As AutumnOwl explains in #3, the construction expresses disappointment. There is an (almost) identical construction in Norwegian. Ex:  A person has planned a trip to London and is looking forward to it, but gets sick and cannot go after all. To express disappointment, s/he says: (_Og) jeg som har gledet meg sånn!_
> 
> I personally prefer to use perfect aspect in that kind of sentence, but Swedish might do it otherwise


(_Og) jeg som har gledet meg sånn! _is an interjection that "stands on its own feet", but it's not a sentence.


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## AutumnOwl

Ben Jamin said:


> After '*Jeg som* _redan börjar snacka' _one expects a continuation of the sentence with something that relates to the speaker, as "som" is a peg to hang something related on, but it does not come. For example ""_Jag som redan börjar snacka om "vårfeelings, är besviken ..."_


The feelings of disappointment is implied in the sentence. The text is from a blog, not a book or a written magazine, and it's natural that the writing is like spoken language, written quickly. and like in spoken language not everything is considered and rephrased two or three or more times before it gets posted, and therefore the text is not what is to be considered as "proper written Swedish". When looking at the content in a text, at least for me, it matters whether it's from a book, an article, or, as in this case, a blog, when considering how "correctly written" it is. I do not know if you blog or not, but I can say that my blog posts are not always written in a correct Swedish, something I usually notice after I have posted them, but I don't go back and rewrite them (unless there is something totally wrong with the content).


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## Ben Jamin

AutumnOwl said:


> The feelings of disappointment is implied in the sentence. The text is from a blog, not a book or a written magazine, and it's natural that the writing is like spoken language, written quickly. and like in spoken language ...


 That was actually my point too (see #5).


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