# Хочу зимы или хочу зиму?



## ka_

Hi!

According to some grammar books and sites, the genitive must be used after some verbs like хотеть or ждать if the object is an abstract noun,however I've seen that the accusative is quite common even if the object is abstract.Could anyone explain me ? My guess is that the accusative is only used in this case on informal speech/writing.


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## Maroseika

I would say хочу зиму, because I want it as a whole, not a piece of it.


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## e2-e4 X

Naturally, I would say the opposite, "хочу зимы".  Probably, because I want something from the winter (snow, fresh air, a lot of darkness, etc), not the (somewhat abstract for me) winter as a whole.

I do not think either is wrong.

The hardest part is the stress: "хочу з*и́*му", but "хочу зим*ы́*".


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## LilianaB

Maroseika said:


> I would say хочу зиму, because I want it as a whole, not a piece of it.


I would say the same, although the other one can be used in other contexts and many people say it. I don't think the distinction is informal versus formal. In my opinion, the Accusative is more often heard, for some whimsical reason. The Genitive has a more partitive meaning.


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## covar

Хочу любви, радости, счастья. _(poetic, emotional)
_Хочу любовь, радость, счастье._ (formal, not emotional)
_


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## LilianaB

I think it is more partitive v. non-partitive, than poetic v. formal. Isn't it?


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## Sobakus

LilianaB said:


> I think it is more partitive v. non-partitive, than poetic v. formal. Isn't it?



Do you really think хочу счастья is wanting less happiness than хочу счастье?


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## e2-e4 X

covar said:


> Хочу любовь, радость, счастье.


... зиму, Ларису Иванну (впрочем, "хочу зиму" упорно напоминает о Ларисе Ивановне, наверное, только мне)...

PS: it is funny, but I would say "хочу зимы", "хочу весны", "хочу лета", but "хочу осень" (well, not; rather, "хочу, чтобы осень настала"; the accusative somehow doesn't "sound" right to me and, again, reminds of Larisa Ivanovna).


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## LilianaB

Sobakus said:


> Do you really think хочу счастья is wanting less happiness than хочу счастье?



Well, it is hard to explain -- probably not less, although maybe just some  of happiness -- anything that feels like happiness. The word is definitely less definite in the Genitive use. It sounds more general, and vague when used in the Genitive form. At least this is how I experience it.


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## rusita preciosa

e2-e4 x said:


> ... зиму, ларису иванну (впрочем, "хочу зиму" упорно напоминает о ларисе ивановне, наверное, только мне)...


xочу ларисы иванны... совсем чуть-чуть - в поэтическом смысле


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## Maroseika

Sobakus said:


> Do you really think хочу счастья is wanting less happiness than хочу счастье?



For me - yes, of course.


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## e2-e4 X

Maroseika said:


> For me - yes, of course.


Maroseika, it took for me a few minutes (in the literal sense of the words) to realise what means Sobakus' question and your answer to it (that is, it was a purely "intellectual" exercice, not involving any "native feel" for Russian from my part) just because I can't imagine the phrase "хочу счастье" being pronounced (and so, I can't imagine or "feel" its meaning). Then, I could say that in this case the part is certainly more than the whole, because we deal with the part in the real life, and the whole is too abstract, it can't ameliorate our actual life in any direct way.


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## LilianaB

Yes, I think you are right. People will hardly ever say: хочу счастье, but it is not the same with з*и́*му or other nouns. I think the Genitive means more that someone wants just the taste of something -- the coldness, the snow, not a particular season to come soon. Can you try it with months? Will it be the same? I want January, for example.


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## e2-e4 X

LilianaB said:


> Can you try it with months? Will it be the same? I want January, for example.


"Я хочу, чтобы был январь". No way to leave the verb "хотеть" alone in this case, it needs another verb (just like in the case of Larisa Ivanovna the verb "поговорить" was needed to complete the meaning, otherwise the sentence sounded funny and bore a wrong meaning; I don't mention that when you call someone by phone, like Mimino did, the verb "хотеть" must be put into the conditional in order for the request to sound actually polite ("Я хотел бы поговорить с Ларисой Ивановной" — lit. "I would like to talk to Larisa Ivanovna"), as the form of the girl's name implies (well, I did mention it)).


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## LilianaB

Ambiguities like that are common to many languages. People sometimes say: "Give me Mr. Jones" -- meaning I want to talk to Mr. Jones (not very polite, but still). Ambiguity is a part of communication -- the context explains a lot. The same might be true about Larisa Ivanova in Russian. "Give me Larisa Ivanova" (to the phone ) does not really mean on the plate. Or, "I want Larisa Ivanova".


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## Sobakus

Maroseika said:


> For me - yes, of course.



Dunno, to me the Accusative is simply more categorical, like "I want the happiness and I want it now! Waah!" And with such abstract things it sounds awkward, I can hardly imagine anyone but a child utter this. Also, it may be expressed in English through the use of articles, for ex. "I want the winter to come" vs "I wish it were winter". Still doesn't have anything to do with quantity if you ask me.


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## e2-e4 X

Well, partitivity doesn't necessarily have to do with quantities. For example, the internal combustion engine is a part of the car and belongs to it, but one cannot say the engine is "greater" than the car or "lesser" than it, like numbers can be — it is simply more important for a techician who is fixing it.

The same is true about the snow and other attributes of the winter — they belong to the winter, make part of it, but can't be reasonably compared with it in the numerical terms.


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## tacirus

covar said:


> Хочу любви, радости, счастья. _(poetic, emotional)
> _Хочу любовь, радость, счастье._ (formal, not emotional)
> _



I`m on your side. Exactly, the difference is there. 

Хочу зимы - poetical speach with some positive emotional attitude towards winter
Хочу зиму - ordinary speach with no attitude towards winter (but of course we can express such with use of certain intonation),


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