# cobbled-togetherness



## cyanista

Hallo,

ich brauche wieder eure Hilfe und Kreativität. 



> She was a mis-match of parts, but somehow it all worked together, mostly. People were either attracted by her cobbled-togetherness, or repelled by it's crudeness, visible seams. _Aus einer netten kleinen Geschichte._



Mich hat dieses Wortungeheuer einfach fasziniert. Die Bedeutung ist ja mehr oder weniger klar, aber wie sollte man so was übersetzen? Kann Deutsch da mithalten? 

Muss ich meinen eigenen Versuch veröffentlichen? Ich könnte dann nur "Zusammengeflicktheit" anbieten. 

Ich freue mich sehr auf eure Ideen und Kommentare!


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## Jana337

Mensch, wie kommst Du darauf? 

Jedenfalls vielen Dank für den Lachanfall, den Du bei mir ausgelöst hast. 

Mein Vorschlag: zusammengeschusterte Beschaffenheit. 

Jana


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## Hutschi

Mein Vorschlag: Flickschusterei

Dann muss man aber sagen: von dieser Flickschusterei.
("Von ihrer Flickschusterei" würde bedeuten, dass sie selbst geflickschustert hätte.)

Vielleicht ist das aber zu pejorativ.

"Zusammengeflicktheit" ist jedenfalls neutraler.

"zusammengeschusterte Beschaffenheit" steht zwischen beiden.


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## cyanista

Vielen Dank, Jana und Hutschi! Eure Vorschläge sind sehr interessant.


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## Kajjo

cyanista said:


> She was a mis-match of parts, but somehow it all worked together, mostly. People were either attracted by her cobbled-togetherness, or repelled by it's crudeness, visible seams.


Sehr frei übersetzt:
_ Vieles an ihr paßte nicht zusammen, aber irgendwie funktionierte es trotzdem, meistens zumindest. Die Leute wurden entweder von ihrem zusammengeflickten Wesen angezogen oder von ihrer Grobschlächtigkeit, den sichtbaren Nähten abgestoßen._

Kajjo


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## gaer

I see two problems immediately:

Here is a bit more context, and thank you for the link!

She was a mis-match of parts, but somehow it all worked together, mostly. People were either attracted by her cobbled-togetherness, or repelled by it's crudeness, *its* visible seams.

I believe "its" must be there. "And" would also work. The comma does not work for me.

More important, I think, is the fact that "cobbled-togetherness" may not make any sense to many or most people who are English natives. It's definitely used. It exists. It may also be highly effective, but I don't know what it means!

Do you have any idea where it comes from? I don't have time at the moment to do any more checking.

Gaer


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## Kajjo

gaer said:


> More important, I think, is the fact that "cobbled-togetherness" may not make any sense to many or most people who are English natives. It's definitely used. It exists. It may also be highly effective, but I don't know what it means!


As far as I understood "cobbled-togetherness" it means a patchwork of mismatching characteristics (behaviour, traits) fits together to form a person that makes you feeling close or friendly.

Kajjo


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## gaer

Kajjo said:


> As far as I understood "cobbled-togetherness" it means a patchwork of mismatching characteristics (behaviour, traits) fits together to form a person that makes you feeling close or friendly.
> 
> Kajjo


I just found this:

cobble sth together phrasal verb [M] 
to do or make something quickly and not very carefully:
I just had to cobble this meal together from what I had in the fridge.

source

"Cobbled-togetherness", apparently, is a term that comes from "cobbled-together". I think it must be BE. 

Regardless, it's used a great deal. I had never seen or heard it before.

Gaer


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## Bonjules

Hello,
the problem I see is that the German terms
used so far are either negative in a specific way( zusammenschustern, -flicken etc.) that I am not sure
the text wants to convey, or are too 'smooth' (like Flickschusterei, which is also negative, 'Beschaffenheit', etc) for the
purposefully odd term 'cobbled togetherness' (although
it is tempting, of course, to stay in the 'cobblers' vein).
To avoid both a bit more, I suggest
' ihr zusammengestückt-Sein' (not sure about Großschreibung) oder 'die Zusammengestücktheit ihres Wesens' zog....
....an - to reproduce this oddity a little

saludos


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## dec-sev

gaer said:


> I just had to cobble this meal together from what I had in the fridge.
> 
> Gaer


Ich habe Italienische Variante der Phrase gefunden.
"Pizza".


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## Hutschi

"Zusammengestücktheit" (von saludos) passt sehr gut und ist selbst gut "zusammengestückt" - ein Beispiel für ein autologes Wort.

Es ist gut verständlich.


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## cyanista

Kajjo, vielen Dank für die schöne Übersetzung und vor allem für die klare Definition. Ich würde nur den zweiten Teil davon weglassen, weil diese Konnotation nicht unbedingt immer mitschwingt.


> As far as I understood "cobbled-togetherness" it means a patchwork of mismatching characteristics (behaviour, traits) that fit together to form (a person that makes you feeling close or friendly) some kind of unity.


Anmerkungen?

Danke für etymologische Befunde, Gary. Ich habe das Wort von dem Adjektiv "cobbled" abgeleitet, aber deine Version ist viel überzeugender.

Mein nächster Dank geht an Bonjules ("saludos" bedeutet Grüße im Spanischen, Hutschi  ). Zusammengestücktheit ist ein toller Vorschlag, und sehr gut begründet.  Übrigens, ich würde Zusammengestücktsein als ein Wort schreiben, so wie z.B. Nichtvorhandensein.

Ihr seid klasse.


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## Kajjo

Cyanista,
ja, "a patchwork of mismatching characteristics that fit together to form some kind of unity." ist eine sehr gute Definition.

Du hast recht, daß man "Zusammengestücktsein" in einem Wort schreibt (schreiben würde?). Persönlich finde ich diese Wortschöpfung recht gut, aber ich glaube nicht, daß sie weniger negative Assoziationen hervorruft als "zusammengeflickt". Beides kann auch neutral verstanden werden und würde im Titelsatz gut passen.

Kajjo


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## elroy

gaer said:


> Regardless, it's used a great deal. I had never seen or heard it before.


 I'm surprised; "cobble together" is an integral part of my vocabulary.  

As such, the sentence was immediately understandable to me.


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## Lykurg

"Zusammengestück*el*t" gibt es schon, ich würde es daher bevorzugen, auch wenn es vielleicht leicht abwertend ist.


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## cyanista

Lykurg said:


> "Zusammengestück*el*t" gibt es schon, ich würde es daher bevorzugen, auch wenn es vielleicht leicht abwertend ist.


 Und im Satz? Zusammengestückeltheit? Zusammengestückeltsein? Zusammengestückeltes Wesen? Anderes?


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## gaer

elroy said:


> I'm surprised; "cobble together" is an integral part of my vocabulary.
> 
> As such, the sentence was immediately understandable to me.


Perhaps it's regional in the US. I like the word, the term. It's very colorful. I wonder what the origin is. Could it have anything to with "cobble stones"? <curious>

Gaer


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## cyanista

gaer said:


> Perhaps it's regional in the US. I like the word, the term. It's very colorful. I wonder what the origin is. Could it have anything to with "cobble stones"? <curious>



Ich glaube, schon. Ich habe mir diese "cobbled-togetherness" ganz bildlich vorgestellt.


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## Bonjules

HALLO,
Wenn mir ein allgemeiner Kommenar erlaubt ist:
Ich bin ja kein Übersetzer, aber als Leser gefällt es
mir, wenn der mir alle Optionen offenhält bis sich meine eigene
Meinung ueber die Person/den Charakter verfestigt (das
mag ich auch bei Autoren, macht das Lesen interssanter), ausser wenn sich der Verfasser eben klar festlegen will.
In dem kurzen Kontext, den Cyanista uns gab, kann ich
der/dem 'cobbled-togetherness' auch durchaus 
sympathische Seiten abgewinnen.
Deshalb würde ich eindeutig negative Assoziationen
hier lieber vermeiden; 'In dubio pro reo' sollte soweit
auch in der Literatur gelten!
saludos


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## Hutschi

"Zusammengefügtheit" wäre wahrscheinlich ein neutrales Wort in diesem Sinn.

Grüße von Bernd


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## Bonjules

Ja Bernd,
hat aber nicht diesen leicht 'chaotischen' Beigeschmack
der (wie ich vemute) dieser Person einen gewissen 'Charm' gibt.


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## Hutschi

Das ist das Problem, Bonjules,
ich habe weiterhin immer nach besseren Lösungen gesucht, die genügend neutral sind, aber auch chaotisch. "Zusammengeflicktheit" hat das. 
Grüße von Bernd


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## germinal

elroy said:


> I'm surprised; "cobble together" is an integral part of my vocabulary.
> 
> As such, the sentence was immediately understandable to me.


 

This is a very common expression in British English but maybe not so well-used in the USA?

.


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## germinal

gaer said:


> Perhaps it's regional in the US. I like the word, the term. It's very colorful. I wonder what the origin is. Could it have anything to with "cobble stones"? <curious>
> 
> Gaer


 
I have always taken this as originating in a pejorative comparison between the work of a cobbler or clogmaker and the more skilful work of the shoemaker but your mention of cobblestones is interesting.

.


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## Bonjules

Actually, the nice stones in the picture are not true
'cobblestones', described by my 'Webster' from 1920
as 'naturally rounded stones, often used to pave streets'- I agree with that. In most cases of such streets I have seen, they are also rather similar, or more uniform looking and tightly spaced. Come to Viejo San Juan to see some
good ones!
Saludos


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## germinal

Bonjules said:


> Actually, the nice stones in the picture are not true
> 'cobblestones', described by my 'Webster' from 1920
> as 'naturally rounded stones, often used to pave streets'- I agree with that. In most cases of such streets I have seen, they are also rather similar, or more uniform looking and tightly spaced. Come to Viejo San Juan to see some
> good ones!
> Saludos


 

I agree!   The picture shows what we call crazy-paving where irregular flat stones are cemented together wherever they will fit.

In Britain, true cobbles are, as you say, naturally rounded stones but most often, squared-off stones with a rounded top surface (properly known as setts) are the ones referred to when we speak of cobbled streets.

.


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## gaer

germinal said:


> I have always taken this as originating in a pejorative comparison between the work of a cobbler or clogmaker and the more skilful work of the shoemaker but your mention of cobblestones is interesting.
> 
> .


I had in mind a "road" with more irregular stones and of different colors, what Germinal described here:

"crazy-paving where irregular flat stones are cemented together wherever they will fit"

However, that may not be at all what "cobble-stoned" means, in general. 

Gaer


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## cj427

OK, according to the OED, "cobble" the verb and "cobble(stone)" the noun have different etymologies.  Cobbler/cobble/cobble together, in the sense of patching shoes together, all come from one root, but nobody seems to know what it is.  "Cobble" the noun, on the other hand, seems to have come from a much older (and vaguer) word, cob, which means anything from a male swan to a big, lumpish man to (probably the meaning we're looking for) "containing the notion ‘rounded’, ‘roundish mass’ or ‘lump’".

So it seems like cobbled-together, in this quote, refers to patched-together shoes, not to bumpy roads.


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## cyanista

Thank you for your contributions! It's been most enlightening.


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