# The word cuss/cussing



## KateNicole

*The word cuss/cussing*
Does the word (not the act!) sound low-class to you?


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## TrentinaNE

A little quaint, perhaps, but not low-class to my ears.

Elizabeth


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## cuchuflete

Please define "low-class" and then offer a sample sentence or two.  I'm leaning towards Elizabeth's answer.


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## KateNicole

Well first of all, I just strongly prefer the term swearing.
I guess by low-class I mean that it doesn't sound gramatically incorrect or vulgar, yet it sounds "ugly" to my ears and there are better-sounding alternatives.

I guess for example, towel vs. rag.  There's nothing incorrect about "rag" . . . I just can't stand how it sounds.


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## Fishwife

Yes, it sounds low-class to me, or at least uneducated.  "Curse" is the normal form.  Like passel or varmint (parcel, vermin) it suggests an inherited isolation from the main body of English, or else an affected dialect.  But it is also used as a diminutive, as if "cussing" were not as wicked as "cursing."

"Naughty little cuss-words,
Bother, drat, and blow,
Lead you on to wuss words;
Take you down below."

Curse and worse are both corrupted in this rustic ditty.


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## cuchuflete

KN- granted there is a difference in register between towel and rag. I'm not convinced that cuss and swear are not interchangeable both in terms of meaning and of register.

You have, shall we say, a strong stylistic preference.
So use the word you prefer. Cuss may have associations with 'red-neck' English for some people, based on its use in movies and literature such as Steinbeck's Urskin Caldwell's Tobacco Road.
It doesn't carry that baggage for me when I hear it or read it, but I don't use the word. I prefer the less euphemistic 'curse' when I mean curse.


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## cuchuflete

Here is an example of why I think you don't like the sound of cuss:



> My Grandfather on my daddy's side and my grandma on my momma's side used to try and *cuss* their miseries away. They could out-*cuss* any damn body I have ever seen. I am only an amateur cusser at best, but I inherited other things from these people who grew up on the ridges and deep in the hollows of northeastern Alabama, the foothills of the Appalachians. They taught me, on a thousand front porch nights, as a million jugs passed from hand to hand, how to tell a story.


source


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## the-pessimist

In Britain it's quite a low class word.  If one were to use it, as an adult, you would be looked at differently from that point onwards: like an uneducated, immature wo/man that has not left her/his teen years - *curse* on the otherhand, is OK.


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## jdenson

KateNicole said:
			
		

> Well first of all, I just strongly prefer the term swearing.
> I guess by low-class I mean that it doesn't sound gramatically incorrect or vulgar, yet it sounds "ugly" to my ears and there are better-sounding alternatives.
> 
> I guess for example, towel vs. rag.  There's nothing incorrect about "rag" . . . I just can't stand how it sounds.


Hi KateNicole,
_Cuss_ and _cussing _certainly have a rural sound but, at least to my Texas ears, not a low-class sound. Here, even the grandest of grande dame might be heard to say "Don't cuss honey, it's not ladylike". I suspect that it's just a regional difference.
JD


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## la reine victoria

I've never heard the word 'cuss' used in spoken English apart from in an idiom we use over here - 'I don't give a tinker's cuss'.  

It can frequently be found in 19th century literature.  I believe Dickens used it a lot in the dialogues between his 'low-life' characters.



LRV


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## jdenson

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I've never heard the word 'cuss' used in spoken English apart from in an idiom we use over here - 'I don't give a tinker's cuss'.
> 
> It can frequently be found in 19th century literature.  I believe Dickens used it a lot in the dialogues between his 'low-life' characters.
> 
> 
> 
> LRV


It seems that "cuss", like "yonder" and "gotten", is a word that has fallen out of use in England but is still used in the U.S. 

JD


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## maxiogee

It was always a "tinker's curse" which my late father couldn't give. He was born in Co. Kildare in 1909.
Those who 'couldn't give" something nowadays in Ireland are rather retentive of "a fiddler's f***".


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## Mr.Blue

Cuss isn't a low-class word to me, but it's rather colloquial.


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## la reine victoria

In England it's a fish's tit which is retained.

Your father must have been very polite, Tony.  My Irish husband told me that the Emerald Isle was full of cussing tinkers in days of yore.



LRV


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## the-pessimist

For those of you not familiar with 'cuss' or 'cussing' and how it's actually used nowadays in England:

It is used as part of an entire new language constructing by our youth.  

"He cussed me", "stop cussing me!", "he cussed my mum" - all the kind of phrases you would here in a playground at school, or with children solving issues in a headmaster's office.

Any other usage, is now virtually extinct - and this is only real usage; in replacement of the verb to curse.


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## drei_lengua

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> In England it's a fish's tit which is retained.
> 
> Your father must have been very polite, Tony. My Irish husband told me that the Emerald Isle was full of cussing tinkers in days of yore.
> 
> 
> 
> LRV


 
fish's tit?  Since when are fish mammals?    

Drei


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## cuchuflete

drei_lengua said:
			
		

> fish's tit?  Since when are fish mammals?



It's a relatively recent phenomenon...ever since figurative, ironic language was invented.


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## panjandrum

drei_lengua said:
			
		

> fish's tit? Since when are fish mammals?
> 
> Drei


Isn't that the point?


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## la reine victoria

drei_lengua said:
			
		

> fish's tit? Since when are fish mammals?
> 
> Drei


 

Charles Darwin had a pickled fish complete with tits which he kept in a jar on his mantlepiece.  He found it on the Great Barrier Reef and claimed it was the missing link between mermaids and women.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fig - another 'I don't give a tinker's cuss' term (just to keep on topic). 


LRV


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## Not Logged In

I've arrived here from this http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?p=1492273#post1492273 thread where I have queried the use of the word cuss by a moderator.

'Cuss' is not used in British English other than in jest as a parody of American English. I queried whether, in the thread quoted, it had been used as a euphemism or as a spelling of a vernacular mispronunciation by the moderator, particularly in the context of African American rap song lyrics being discussed in the thread?

I don't think either was the case. The moderator replied that she was unaware of the fact that cuss was not correct English. 

Certainly in BE 'cuss' would only be used as dialect, or in jest, in Britain, as a sterotypical red neck/yo mama expression.

"Rastus! You go wash yo mouth out with soap, cussin' like that!"

Please refer to 'Profanity' in Wikipedia.


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## maxiogee

Not Logged In said:


> 'Cuss' is not used in British English other than in jest as a parody of American English. I queried whether, in the thread quoted, it had been used as a euphemism or as a spelling of a vernacular mispronunciation by the moderator, particularly in the context of African American rap song lyrics being discussed in the thread?
> 
> I don't think either was the case. The moderator replied that she was unaware of the fact that cuss was not correct English.



I can't see the Moderator's comments in the thread you quoted, 
and don't wish to comment on the case in hand, 
*but*, 
I would be extremely cautious about making statements such as "is not correct English". 
There are many forms of English.


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## Dimcl

KateNicole said:


> Does the word (not the act!) sound low-class to you?


 
Because it's not a word heard in Canada in everyday useage, it has always sounded strange to my ear.  The fact that I've only ever heard or read it in dialogue in the U.S. reinforces the regionality issue in my mind.  And because I've only heard it from old movies and books, usually centred on rural America, I tend to think of it as "uneducated" as opposed to "low-class".


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## GenJen54

Not Logged In said:
			
		

> I don't think either was the case. The moderator replied that she was unaware of the fact that cuss was *not correct English*.


 
Let's please make a distinction here: It is not correct *British* English. It is perfectly acceptable, if not colloquial, in *American* English, which is my (the moderator in question's) native language.

Please see the WordReference dictionary for "cuss" (v) here:





> _verb_*1 *curse, *cuss*, blaspheme, swear, imprecate
> _utter obscenities or profanities; "The drunken men were cursing loudly in the street" _


 
Bartleby.com (_The American Heritage Dictionary) _gives:





> INTRANSITIVE & TRANSITIVE VERB:Inflected forms: *cussed*, *cuss·ing*, *cuss·es*
> _Informal_ To curse or curse at.


 
And Dictionary.com gives:





> cuss
> –verb (used without object)
> 1. to use profanity, curse, swear.


 


			
				Not Logged In said:
			
		

> Certainly in *BE* 'cuss' would only be used as dialect, or in jest, in Britain, as a *sterotypical red neck/yo mama expression*.


 I happen to be from a "Southern" US state. As such, "cuss" is a part of the local variant of English which I speak. It is perhaps more colloquial than "swear," but is still used - and understood - broadly.

These forums, as Maxiogee has already pointed out, welcome speakers from different variants of English. None is more "correct" than the other, and all are equally accepted. While it is true these differences have caused confusion from time to time, we generally use these differences as a means of learning and understanding one another a little bit better.


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## konungursvia

It is low class, it comes from the word "curse", which is to be preferred.


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## Gianna_7

I have only encountered *cuss *in the urban areas where I have taught (the Midwest and East coast..U.S.).  In my experience, _*cuss* _carries much more attitude than the terms *cursing *or *swearing*.  

Regarding the "educated/non-educated" or "class" dabate, the majority of my students were very well educated, enrolled in rigorous academic programs, and accepted into top East Coast universities.  Depending on the formality of the setting, *cuss *might be used instead of *curse *or* swear *to emphasize a point.


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## .   1

Not Logged In said:


> "Rastus! You go wash yo mouth out with soap, cussin' like that!"


Surely you intended to use the words Yo, mouf, wiv and 'at in your exemplary statement.

To be on topic may I remind you that the dominant form of English is American English and that it is this form that is slowly infiltrating other forms of English just as was the case when British english was dominant

.,,


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## panjandrum

Originally US, cuss is listed in the OED as used by Dickens and Thackeray to reflect colloquial usage.


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## french4beth

_cuss_ = informal, lower register i.e. "cuss like a drunken sailor"

Someone is truly "low class" would simply cuss, and would not use this word, in my humble opinion.


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## andrew0991

It may sound a bit odd and unpleasant to people's ears, but I wouldn't consider it "low-class". It is, after all, just another slang or informal term. However, the act of "cussing" is of a different story.


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## GenJen54

*Mod Note: *All discussion regarding "English" versus languages sounding like English that are not fit to be English, have been moved to THIS thread in the Cultural Discussions Forum. Please continue there. Thank you.


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## Not Logged In

foxfirebrand said:


> So a non-rhotic rendering of "curse" is "a vernacular mispronunciation" to you?  You just don't seem to get it.
> 
> Where do you think the original classic Old Dominion way of speaking English came from?  Or do you just believe that eliding the /r/ is a "mispronunciation" when Americans do it, but something else altogether when the same word is pronounced _in the same way_ by a speaker of RP?
> 
> Your formulation was anything but "plain English," it was obfuscated by value-laden preconceptions-- and an apparent unawareness that a large percentage of Englishmen express themselves in their non-rhotic regionalism of birth (or choice).
> 
> Virginia was colonized in Jacobean times, and the language there preserves that slice of the English-language pie more closely than anywhere else in the English-speaking world.  And "misspellings" in those days were the norm, as you'll discover if you ever delve through primary documents of the era, whether in manuscript or printed form.
> 
> "English misspelling," that's a good one-- arguably oxymoronic, when add a little historical perspective.  _Cuss_ has an etymology that involves a variation in spelling.  Or spellynge, if you still want to be such a gawddanged purist about it.
> .
> .



Now you're being silly! The word is 'curse'. We've all agreed. If it is pronounced 'cuss' that's fine, if that's your accent, in the part of the word you live in, and if they don't roll their r's there. But to spell it C U S S is to acknowledge that it has entered the vernacular of that area and the word is being spelled phonetically according to that pronunciation.

There is a difference between being polite and clear and being jargon-ridden and pompous. There is some useful guidance here.


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## GenJen54

Not Logged In said:
			
		

> The word is 'curse'. We've all agreed.


We've not all agreed. How many dictionary entries and other sources do you need to have cited before you can agree that the word "cuss" exists as a word in a language I call Standard American English, which according to you, is not English at all.

Cuss is a valid word in the world in which I live and speak.  It exists in dictionaries and in literature.  It may not be "cuss" in *your* language, but it is in mine, and that language is just as valid here as is yours or any of the others represented on these pages.  The fact you don't choose to ackowledge that is your problem.


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## Not Logged In

This is like wading through treacle!  

It is ALWAYS cited as _slang (esp N Am)_, meaning 'curse'.


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## GenJen54

In none of the dictionary citations provided in my post #23 is the word described as "slang."  That its meaning is "curse" we *can* agree.


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## Not Logged In

Stop leaping about Gen!

I just said on the thread you split off from this that YES! It does exist 
as a word in a language you call Standard American English, but it is ALWAYS, as far as I can see everywhere reputable, Chambers, Oxford et al, *s*_*lang (esp Am) *_for curse.


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## Not Logged In

This is getting silly. I propose that the word cuss is potentially divisive, as such, it should be advised to the non native English speaker, that the word be used with caution.


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## englishman

Not Logged In said:


> Stop leaping about Gen!
> 
> I just said on the thread you split off from this that YES! It does exist
> as a word in a language you call Standard American English, but it is ALWAYS, as far as I can see everywhere reputable, Chambers, Oxford et al, *s*_*lang (esp Am) *_for curse.



Two points. 

1. "cuss" is in common use in parts of the West Country in England, and has been for many years as far as I am aware. I'd be very surprised if it was a recently acquired Americanism, given the age of the people I know who use the term.

2. My Collins English Dictionary, of 1982 vintage, merely records it as "another word for _curse_" with no suggestion that it is American slang.


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## cuchuflete

Not Logged In said:


> Stop leaping about Gen!
> 
> I just said on the thread you split off from this that YES! It does exist
> as a word in a language you call Standard American English, but it is ALWAYS, as far as I can see *everywhere reputable*, Chambers, Oxford et al, *s*_*lang (esp Am) *_for curse.



Have you ever seen a "reputable" English dictionary published outside the BE sphere of influence?  Try looking up, for example, "bollocks" in Cambridge, Chambers, Oxford _et alia_.
They don't generally add (esp British) to their definitions, while quite reputable AE dictionaries do point out this characteristic of the term.

As to it "ALWAYS" being labelled as slang, you might wish to have a look at the rather large two volume Shorter Oxford sitting on my desk.  The word "slang" is nowhere to be found in the definition of cuss.  It does call the word "_U.S. colloq._".


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## Not Logged In

cuchuflete said:


> Have you ever seen a "reputable" English dictionary published outside the BE sphere of influence?  Try looking up, for example, "bollocks" in Cambridge, Chambers, Oxford _et alia_.
> They don't generally add (esp British) to their definitions, while quite reputable AE dictionaries do point out this characteristic of the term.



QED. See Cultural Thread!


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## panjandrum

Not Logged In said:


> [...] It is ALWAYS cited as _slang (esp N Am)_, meaning 'curse'.


Not so.

In the OED, following the tag "orig US", the definition of curse (verb) is:
Vulgar pronunciation or attenuation of CURSE _v._


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## Not Logged In

panjandrum said:


> Not so.
> 
> In the OED, following the tag "orig US", the definition of curse (verb) is:
> Vulgar pronunciation or attenuation of CURSE _v._



I fail to see how "not so" applies to your point.


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## panjandrum

Not Logged In said:


> I fail to see how "not so" applies to your point.


My "Not so" comment was posted as a point of information.
You had said that cuss "... is ALWAYS cited as slang _(esp N Am)._"

The Oxford English Dictionary entry does not mention slang and includes examples (see earlier post) of the use of cuss by English writers.


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## Not Logged In

It says it's slang in all mine! But now I no longer work at a University so my access to the on-line Longer OED has sadly ceased.  Do you have a full log-in?

There are various on-line sources that frankly I wouldn't trust as an authoritative citation, largely because they cannibalise each other, without proper peer moderation. It's quite fun to set a rumour loose in order to see it cited as "fact" a year later!

OK then my international amigos... do we agree that the Oxford English Dictionary is the ultimate arbiter of words in the English language?


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## cuchuflete

Repeating what I wrote in post #38--


As to it "ALWAYS" being labelled as slang, you might wish to have a look at the rather large two volume Shorter Oxford sitting on my desk. The word "slang" is nowhere to be found in the definition of cuss. It does call the word "_U.S. colloq._".

You overstated your case by saying that Oxford used the word 
"slang" in reference to cuss.


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## Not Logged In

Well I can't legislate for what's in your Oxford as opposed to mine. Even in the free online sources if it's not _slang_ it's mostly _informal._


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## maxiogee

Not Logged In said:


> Stop leaping about Gen!
> 
> I just said on the thread you split off from this that YES! It does exist
> as a word in a language you call Standard American English, but it is ALWAYS, as far as I can see everywhere reputable, Chambers, Oxford et al, *s*_*lang (esp Am) *_for curse.



Oh yea????
Try not to be so assertive without offering conclusive (or even any?) proof

The *Concise Oxford Dictionary*
*cuss* _informal_ * _n_ 1 an annoying or stubborn person or animal. 2 another term for CURSE (in sense 2). * _v_. another word for CURSE (in sense 2).

The *Oxford Dictionary and Thesaurus*
*cuss* _informal_ * _noun_ an annoying or stubborn person or animal. a source of harm or misery. _verb_ use offensive language; swear or curse.

The *Penguin English Dictionary*
*cuss* _n (coll)_ curse; fellow, chap. *~ cuss* _v/t and i (coll)_ curse.

The *Collins English Dictionary*
*cuss* informal > _n_ 1 a curse; oath. 2 a person or animal, esp an annoying one > _vb_ 3 another word for CURSE (senses 8, 9)

The *Chambers English Dictionary* (1998, reprinted 1999)
*cuss* (slang) _n_ a curse; a fellow. — _vt_ and _vi_, to curse. — _adj_ cussed cursed;n obstinate. — n cussedness contrariness. — cussword _(esp N Am)_ a swearword.

and not forgetting 
*http://www.wordreference.com/definition/cuss*
*cuss* _noun_ profane or obscene expression usually of surprise or anger; a boy or man; a persistently annoying person. _verb_ utter obscenities or profanities​So one "slang", one "colloquial", several "informal" and only one mention of America and that referring to a derivative.


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## .   1

Not Logged In said:


> OK then my international amigos... do we agree that the Oxford English Dictionary is the ultimate arbiter of words in the English language?


No.

.,,


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## cuchuflete

Not Logged In said:


> Even in the free online sources if it's not _slang_ it's mostly _informal._


We agree that it's not high register.  You previously called it incorrect, and then flatly stated that it is "ALWAYS" termed _slang._  It is not always described as slang by reputable dictionaries, and it is not incorrect.  I trust you find the Shorter OED reputable, and Panjandrum has verified that the complete OED also omits the word slang from its entry for cuss. 
The Random House Unabridged, which you may or may not consider reputable, calls it "informal", which is far from "incorrect".  Is Collins reputable?


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## Not Logged In

Yes? The slang, informal, colloquial , preface to each one that Maxi is citing...how is somehow *not* corroborration of what I'm saying? How is that?

Oh and "high register" does not compute.

In the begining....

Sighs

I wrote a post saying that cuss is not good English in England.

It still isn't.

Maxi still seems sane. But I am wearied by such a bitter and twisted discourse from you ladies.


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## maxiogee

Not Logged In said:


> Yes? The slang, informal, colloquial , preface to each one that Maxi is citing...how is somehow *not* corroborration of what I'm saying? How is that?
> 
> Oh and "high register" does not compute.



*Informal* is not necessarily _slang_


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## .   1

Not Logged In said:


> Yes? The slang, informal, colloquial , preface to each one that Maxi is citing...how is somehow *not* corroborration of what I'm saying? How is that?
> 
> Oh and "high register" does not compute.
> 
> In the begining....
> 
> Sighs
> 
> I wrote a post saying that cuss is not good English in England.
> 
> It still isn't.
> 
> Maxi still seems sane. But I am wearied by such a bitter and twisted discourse from you ladies.


Good luck with your final comment.
I saw no bitter or twisted discourse and on a technical note I am of the opinion that ladies are never bitter or twisted.  I saw people trying to help with a slippery question.
You are obviously of the opinion that the word is not good English in England and that is cool but a few people from the apple isle and surrounds seem at odds with your opinion.
There are none so strange as folk.

.,,


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## cuchuflete

I mildly cuss those who demand precision in naming conventions for a variant of a language, and then get all huffy when their very own exaggeration and imprecision in characterizing a single word is pointed out.
*
Cussed*, _adj. U.S. Informal._ 1. Cursed. 2. Obstinate; peverse
 source: the highy reputable Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged Edition.

*Cussedness*, _a._  malignity, cantankerousness, contrariness
source: the highly reputable Shorter Oxford English Dictionary

Neither source gives any hint that the word cuss or its derivatives is incorrect.  The person who said that it is incorrect has provided nothing to support the statement that it is incorrect.  There is nothing either bitter or twisted about presenting information with which one may disagree.  To characterize those with whom one has a civil disagreement as sources of, or participants in, a bitter and twisted discourse is a fine example of cussedness. 

The reputable folks at Cambridge offer this:




> cussed
> http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=19118&ph=on
> adjective DISAPPROVING
> describes people who are unwilling to be helpful, or things that are annoying:
> He's just *plain* cussed: he's only doing it because I asked him not to!
> It's a cussed nuisance.
> 
> 
> cussedness  http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=19118&ph=on
> noun
> He refused to help *out of sheer/pure* cussedness.
> 
> (from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)


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## Not Logged In

maxiogee said:


> *Informal* is not necessarily _slang_



Oh MORE WEASEL WORDS!!!!?

My orginal point was that it is not correct formal mainstream English even in America!

You now cite that it's either informal; or slang. Fine I don't care which.
But I don't want you imply to any googling-in  non-english speakers that 'cuss' is either good formal or correct english because it isn't!


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## ellas!

KateNicole said:


> Well first of all, I just strongly prefer the term swearing.
> I guess by low-class I mean that it doesn't sound gramatically incorrect or vulgar, yet it sounds "ugly" to my ears and there are better-sounding alternatives.
> 
> I guess for example, towel vs. rag.  There's nothing incorrect about "rag" . . . I just can't stand how it sounds.




I totally agree with you- but I think it's more of an American thing to say cuss, whereas in England, we say swear more. Only like 1 person I know that's English says cuss haha.


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## maxiogee

Not Logged In said:


> Oh MORE WEASEL WORDS!!!!?


Weasel words - oh no, these are stoatally different!




> My orginal point was that it is not correct formal mainstream English even in America!


My goodness, you are exacting. 

You started off by saying 
"'Cuss' is not used in British English other than in jest as a parody of American English."

Then you said 
"If it is pronounced 'cuss' that's fine, <snip> But to spell it C U S S is to acknowledge that <snip> the word is being spelled phonetically according to that pronunciation"

Then you said 
"It is ALWAYS cited as slang (esp N Am), meaning 'curse'."

Then you said 
"It does exist as a word in a language you call Standard American English,"

Then you said 
"This is getting silly. I propose that the word cuss is potentially divisive, as such, it should be advised to the non native English speaker, that the word be used with caution."

Your stance changed with successive posts. The dogmatism of that ALWAYS was particular!

Now not only do you want to the word to be "correct", you also want it to be "formal" and then you require that it be "mainstream". And you call my words weasel!

Untwist your nether garments before apoplexy strikes.
It's a word.
It's in English dictionaries.
It's a British English word.
It's an informal word, but is correct and mainstream.
It would be fully and clearly understood by any BrEng speaker who heard it.


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## .   1

The Collins English Dictionary (Fourth Australian Edition)
*cuss* _Informal_ _n_ *1* a curse; oath.  *2* a person or animal, esp. an annoying one. *3* _v_ another word for curse.
*cussed *_adj informal_.  *1* another word for cursed.  *2* obstinate.  *3* annoying; a cussed nuisance.  > *cussedly *_adv  _> *cussedness *_n_

There is no mention if this word cluster being American so it would appear that the word has entered the Australian lexicon.

.,,


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## SanDiegoboy1991

I grew up saying Cuss, and I'm not a redneck I'm from southern california. I tend to think people where I have lived (like new england) sound weird when they say "sweah".


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## Forero

To me, _cuss_, though obviously derived from _curse_, has a more general meaning:

_Cursing_: Pox on you! Drop dead! Damn you! May you live in interesting times.
_Swearing_: I solemnly swear.  By Jove! By the hair on my chinny chin chin.

_Cussing _includes all of the above, plus the use of obscene four-letter words for bodily functions, among other things.

_Cuss_ is less accurate than more specific terms, but it is a useful word for any and all use for "shock value" of particularly undesirable expressions.

That said, I associate use of the word _cuss_ less with those who do the act than with other members of their families. Are members of the same family necessarily of the same "class"?


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