# Punjabi: past tense forms



## accidentobizarro

Hi

I'm trying to get to grips with Punjabi as it is spoken in Huddersfield, UK. I'm working on transcripts of children telling stories. I have a lot of questions (!) that I haven't yet managed to find answers to... very excited to find this forum and hoping someone can help.

For starters:

The kids seem to express past tense in a number of different ways. (My Punjabi-speaking research assistant translates all of these as simple past, e.g. 'He looked', and finds it hard to explain any differences among them or whether they are all things that adults would also say (as opposed to being developmental variants - things that children eventually grow out of saying). 

For example:

1. o dekhiaa
2. o dekhda si
3. o dekhda

all seem to be used to express 'he looked'. My grammar book (Bhatia) says the first two are OK but gives me the impression that (3) is not complete, i.e. it needs an auxiliary (si or ai for past or present tense). Is this correct? Or can adults say 'o dekhda' and be understood to mean 'he looked'? 

And what about the kids who say

4. o dekhiaa si (which Bhatia says is pluperfect)
5. o dekhiaa siga (which I can't find anywhere)?

Thanks very much for any help!


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## Qureshpor

accidentobizarro said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to get to grips with Punjabi as it is spoken in Huddersfield, UK. I'm working on transcripts of children telling stories. I have a lot of questions (!) that I haven't yet managed to find answers to... very excited to find this forum and hoping someone can help.
> 
> For starters:
> 
> The kids seem to express past tense in a number of different ways. (My Punjabi-speaking research assistant translates all of these as simple past, e.g. 'He looked', and finds it hard to explain any differences among them or whether they are all things that adults would also say (as opposed to being developmental variants - things that children eventually grow out of saying).
> 
> For example:
> 
> 1. o dekhiaa
> 2. o dekhda si
> 3. o dekhda
> 
> all seem to be used to express 'he looked'. My grammar book (Bhatia) says the first two are OK but gives me the impression that (3) is not complete, i.e. it needs an auxiliary (si or ai for past or present tense). Is this correct? Or can adults say 'o dekhda' and be understood to mean 'he looked'?
> 
> And what about the kids who say
> 
> 4. o dekhiaa si (which Bhatia says is pluperfect)
> 5. o dekhiaa siga (which I can't find anywhere)?
> 
> Thanks very much for any help!


 
*Accidentobizarro SaaHib/ah,*

*It would be helpful if complete sentences are provided with the appropriate context. But, I shall have a go anyway!*

1. o dekhiaa : *Should really be "os ne dekhiyaa" or "o ne dekhiyaa". He/she saw.*

*Pleae don't forget that if it is indeed *o dekhiaa *then this could mean I/We/You/He/She/They saw that!*

2. o dekhda si: *He used to see.*

3. o dekhda: *This appears incomplete, as you have suggested. However, in fluent speech the auxiliary for the present seems ends up being elided to the main verb. The children might not be aware of this attachment. If this is the case, then the translation is..*

*He sees.*

*But, if it is part of a sentence where the past habitual is being employed, the the auxiliary can be missed, as is the case in Urdu/Hindi.*

*......he would see...*

4. o dekhiaa si (which Bhatia says is pluperfect)

*This can mean I/We/You/He/She/They did see that!*

*But if the sentence is os ne/o ne dekhiaa si, then it means "He had seen (it/him/her...etc being the object" and also "He did see (it/him/her...etc being the object" *

5. o dekhiaa siga (which I can't find anywhere)?

*I (for example) did see that!*


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## panjabigator

Dear Accidentobizarro: 

I had been planning a similar question a while ago, but never got to post it. Welcome to the forum. It's nice to see some Punjabi activity 

I agree with Qureshpor Sahib, but I will add that some Punjabi dialects (such as the Abbotabad Punjabi (Hindko) and Mirpur/Pothohari dialects) do not use "ne" but are still ergative in past tense constructions, i.e., the question of transitivity remains relevant. So, "oh dekhiaa si" might still mean "oh ne dekhiya si."

You will find a lot of debate on the "siga" and "hega" bit. I think this can be quite idiomatic as well as regional. Some people will say that it is for emphasis, while others use this interchangeably. 

I've heard a number of variants for the auxiliary verb in Punjabi. In  'Modern Standard [Written] Punjabi,' which models itself off of Majhi,  the present tense is: 
1st sing ਹਾਂ/ਸਾਂ ہاں ساں
2nd sing ਹੈਂ/ਸੈਂ ھیں سیں
3rd sing ਹੈ/ਸੀ ہے سی
1st plural ਹਾਂ/ਸਾਂ ھاں ساں
2nd plural ਹੋ/ਸੋ ھو سو
3rd plural ਹਨ/ਸਨ ھن سن (ਨੇ نے -sometimes nasalized)

(Though, I often see "ਸੀ سی" as the invariable form for the past.)

In colloquial Punjabi (and in sometimes literature - mainly in Pakistani, from what I've seen), the "h" is dropped.

Then of course, there is:

1st sing ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਅਾਂ) اں) ہیگا ھیگی) 
2nd sing ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਐਂ) ایں) ہیگا ھیگی) 
3rd sing  ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਏ) اے) ہیگا ھیگی) 
1st plural ਹੈਗੇ ਹੈਗੀਅਾਂ (ਆਂ) اں) ہیگے ھیگیاں) 
2nd plural ਹੈਗੇ (ਓ) اں) ہیگے ھیگیاں) 
3rd plural ਹੈਗੇ ਹੈਗੀਅਾਂ (ਨੇ)

For the past tense, replace the "h" with an "s".

But then sometimes you have "haiga si" and "hai si" and even "haiga siga." I believe they are all equivalents.


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## accidentobizarro

Thank you for the swift and comprehensive answers - and the welcome!  

I should say I'm a complete beginner with Punjabi. I'm a linguist, so I am getting somewhere with it on paper, but I can't read either Gurmurkhi or Shakmukhi scripts I'm sorry to say, and I don't understand the language when spoken. Early days...

So, Panjabigator sahib, could I be really cheeky and ask you for the Romanised equivalents of your answers? 

I see the need for more context, Qureshpor sahib; the children's utterances are sometimes very short and not adult-like in structure, but quite a few do state the object e.g.

a. boy window dekhdi
b. sofai pai dekhda
c. o window vich dekhda si
d. o bar dekhda siga

There are some children who use 'o ne' 

e. o ne treasure lablia
f. o ne lollipop dekhiaa

but this is rarely consistent even within one child's utterances. 

Actually in (e) above you see another past tense form with -lia - this shows up every now and again in the transcripts e.g. 

g. o climb karliya
h. ball dekhlia

Is this a Punjabi form? If so how might you translate it? This community uses some Urdu too, and someone suggested to me this might be an Urdu past tense form.

Many thanks for your help with this!


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## Qureshpor

accidentobizarro said:


> I see the need for more context, Qureshpor sahib; the children's utterances are sometimes very short and not adult-like in structure, but quite a few do state the object e.g.
> 
> a. boy window dekhdi
> 
> *Here, there is a mixup in gender. dekhdii >>>dekhdaa, because subject is masculine (boy).*
> 
> b. sofai pai dekhda
> 
> *One could translate this as, "He is looking at the sofas".*
> 
> c. o window vich dekhda si
> 
> *O baarii/khiRkii vichoN dekhdaa sii
> 
> He used to look through a/the wndow
> He would look through a/the window.
> *
> d. o bar dekhda siga
> 
> *He used to look outside
> He would look outside.*
> 
> 
> There are some children who use 'o ne'
> 
> e. o ne treasure lablia*
> 
> *He managed to find the treasure.*
> 
> 
> f. o ne lollipop dekhiaa
> 
> but this is rarely consistent even within one child's utterances.
> 
> Actually in (e) above you see another past tense form with -lia - this shows up every now and again in the transcripts e.g.
> 
> g. o climb karliya
> 
> *He managed to climb.*
> 
> h. ball dekhlia
> 
> *He **managed* *to see the ball*
> 
> Is this a Punjabi form? If so how might you translate it? This community uses some Urdu too, and someone suggested to me this might be an Urdu past tense form.
> Many thanks for your help with this!
> 
> *This usage of verbal root (lab, dekh etc) + the verb laiNRaa is not an Urdu tense form but both languages (along with Hindi) have this as a common feature. Although I have used "managed" in the translations because this seemed to reflect the meaning, the grammar books will tell you that secondary verb adds the meaning of doing something for one's own benefit whilst another verb (deNRaa, to give) is for someone else's benefit.*


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## accidentobizarro

Many thanks again for this. Those translations are very helpful. I've come across secondary verbs and laiNRaa and deNRaa are both discussed in my grammar book - but didn't spot that lablia, karliya were actually lab/ kar + liaa. Thank you for pointing this out!


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## panjabigator

Accidentobibizarro, I am traveling right now and I can't access my comp for too long. If you give me a bit of time, I can romanize this for you.


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> Dear Accidentobizarro:
> 
> I had been planning a similar question a while ago, but never got to post it. Welcome to the forum. It's nice to see some Punjabi activity
> 
> I agree with Qureshpor Sahib, but I will add that some Punjabi dialects (such as the Abbotabad Punjabi (Hindko) and Mirpur/Pothohari dialects) do not use "ne" but are still ergative in past tense constructions, i.e., the question of transitivity remains relevant. So, "oh dekhiaa si" might still mean "oh ne dekhiya si."
> 
> You will find a lot of debate on the "siga" and "hega" bit. I think this can be quite idiomatic as well as regional. Some people will say that it is for emphasis, while others use this interchangeably.
> 
> I've heard a number of variants for the auxiliary verb in Punjabi. In  'Modern Standard [Written] Punjabi,' which models itself off of Majhi,  the present tense is:
> 1st sing ਹਾਂ/ਸਾਂ ہاں ساں
> 2nd sing ਹੈਂ/ਸੈਂ ھیں سیں
> 3rd sing ਹੈ/ਸੀ ہے سی
> 1st plural ਹਾਂ/ਸਾਂ ھاں ساں
> 2nd plural ਹੋ/ਸੋ ھو سو
> 3rd plural ਹਨ/ਸਨ ھن سن (ਨੇ نے -sometimes nasalized)
> (Though, I often see "ਸੀ سی" as the invariable form for the past.)
> 
> In colloquial Punjabi (and in sometimes literature - mainly in Pakistani, from what I've seen), the "h" is dropped.
> 
> *Based on this analysis, it is good to see that I speak the "standard" language! These could be called "literary". In actual informal speech, as PG has indicated, the initial h is dropped for the present tense.
> 
> So...
> 
> maiN aaN/asiiN aaN
> tuu(N) eN/tusiiN o
> o e/o ne
> 
> For the past
> 
> maiN saaN/asiiN saaN
> tuu(N) seN/tusiiN so
> o sii/ o saNR
> 
> And just to confuse matters a little..
> 
> For third person singular and plural, in place of "sii" and "saNR", one also finds "aahaa" and "aahe" respectively which for the feminine are declined as "aahii" and "aahiyaaN".
> *
> 
> Then of course, there is:
> 
> 1st sing ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਅਾਂ) اں) ہیگا ھیگی)
> 2nd sing ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਐਂ) ایں) ہیگا ھیگی)
> 3rd sing  ਹੈਗਾ ਹੈਗੀ (ਏ) اے) ہیگا ھیگی)
> 1st plural ਹੈਗੇ ਹੈਗੀਅਾਂ (ਆਂ) اں) ہیگے ھیگیاں)
> 2nd plural ਹੈਗੇ (ਓ) اں) ہیگے ھیگیاں)
> 3rd plural ਹੈਗੇ ਹੈਗੀਅਾਂ (ਨੇ)
> 
> For the past tense, replace the "h" with an "s".
> 
> But then sometimes you have "haiga si" and "hai si" and even "haiga siga." I believe they are all equivalents.
> 
> *hai-gaa form is found in old Urdu too, especially in Dard's kalaam. My thoughts on this are that it is more of an emphatic particle. *


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## accidentobizarro

Thanks again, Qureshpor, for these very informative points. Panjabigator - thank you! That's very kind. Sorry for delayed response - I've been away from my computer for a few days... best wishes!


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## panjabigator

QP, Literary/Standard Punjabi is based on the Lahori/Majhi dialect, for the most part (at least in India).

Can you tell us any more about the "aaha" form?


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> QP, Literary/Standard Punjabi is based on the Lahori/Majhi dialect, for the most part (at least in India).
> 
> Sorry, I don't quite follow the significance of this.
> 
> Can you tell us any more about the "aaha" form?
> 
> I mentioned this in the "DiTThaa" thread that you had started. Beyond that, I am sure you will find examples of its usage in Classical Punjabi literature, available on the net.
> 
> http://www.apnaorg.com/


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> QP, Literary/Standard Punjabi is based on the Lahori/Majhi dialect, for the most part (at least in India).
> 
> Can you tell us any more about the "aaha" form?




Here are a couple of examples.

From Sultan Baahuu

ب۔بزرگی ویہن لوڑھائیے ملئے رج مکالا ہُو
لاَ اِلہٰ گل گہنا مڑھیا مذہب کِیہ لگدا سَالا ہُو؟
اِلاَّ اللہ گھر میرے آیا آن لہایا پالا ہُو
پیالا خضروں پیتا باہُو آب حیاتی والا ہُو

And here is an explanation of the last shi'r.

 خضرِ نے سکندر نال دھو کھا کیتا آہا پر سانُوں تے آبحیات (امرت دھارا دا پیالہ) دتا سو 

And here is Mirzaa SaaHibaaN

مرزے تد شہباز وانگ کیتا آہا جھٹ
باہوں پھڑ کے صاحباں پچھے نیلی لئیں گھت
صاحباں پچھے خوف تھیں رووے نیر پلٹ
مرزیا خبر ہوسی جد ماہنیاں اوہ ملن واگاں گھت


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## panjabigator

QP Sahib:

The "aahaa" past has come up in my class and I'm interested to know if it's just found in Southern and South Central Western Punjab. Have you or anyone else heard it elsewhere?

Much obliged,
PG


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> QP Sahib:
> 
> The "aahaa" past has come up in my class and I'm interested to know if it's just found in Southern and South Central Western Punjab. Have you or anyone else heard it elsewhere?
> 
> Much obliged,
> PG



PB SaaHib. I left that part of the world in my childhood. All I can say is that at least in the Gujrat district, you will find this tense form. I don't know any more than that.


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## panjabigator

Thanks QP. May I ask which text you got this verse and commentary from?


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> Thanks QP. May I ask which text you got this verse and commentary from?



http://www.apnaorg.com/


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