# もあったものだ



## redsee

Hello,

I was looking to clarify what this expression means, specifically how it's used in examples like 「とんだ偶然もあったもんだ」, 「不思議な現象もあったものです」, and 「すごい聞き違いもあったもんだな」. My understanding is it's simply a way to emphasize the noun in question, but how should it be treated literally? Something akin to "even something like that happens in this world"?

Thank you.


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## Flaminius

I think most grammars of the traditional sort would point out that ものだ places some emotive value to the preceding statement.  For the three sentences the added value is that of unexpectedness.


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## redsee

Flaminius said:


> I think most grammars of the traditional sort would point out that ものだ places some emotive value to the preceding statement.  For the three sentences the added value is that of unexpectedness.


I was specifically confused on the significance of using ある here (i.e. why とんだ偶然もあったもんだ over, say, とんだ偶然だな) but thank you for pointing out said nuance with ものだ.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

*It's a surprise that **there WAS* such a coincidence.
とんだ偶然も*あった**ものだ*

Such a coincidence is surprising.
とんだ偶然だな


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## redsee

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> *It's a surprise that **there WAS* such a coincidence.
> とんだ偶然も*あった**ものだ*
> 
> Such a coincidence is surprising.
> とんだ偶然だな


Thank you. I was mainly stuck on figuring out whether there was a locative aspect to ある here. Like, if 世の中_に（…もあったものだ）_or something similar is meant to be implied before. Judging from your translation, however, it seems like there's no particular nuance like that.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Okay. In other words:
あった in combination with 偶然もーーーものだ is a set phrase. And ある (あった）is used for the emphasizing that the existence (ある）is very rare/surprising/unexpected.
The set phrase is emphasizing unpredictable quality.
_"I didn't know that such a coincidence really *existed*."_

Therefore, とんだ偶然もあったものだ is stronger in unpredictable quality than just saying とんだ偶然だな.


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## Katzuhiko Minohara

*もあったものだ*　is a set phrase to express amazement on something that it exist 

I am not a native English speaker, but my try to translate it are as follows: 

とんだ偶然*もあったもんだ
Man, there are* incredible coincidences.

不思議な現象*もあったものです
Boy, there is* mysterious phenomenon. 

すごい聞き違い*もあったもんだな
Wow, there are* grate misunderstandings. 
( for have heard the wrong word )


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## Katzuhiko Minohara

even if *あった* is there was
when translating I think it is easier to convert it into present tense.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Katzuhiko Minohara said:


> even if *あった* is there was
> when translating I think it is easier to convert it into present tense.


I understand your point, and I do not disagree with that. I respect your opinion.

_I'*m* surprised that such a coincidence really happen*ed*!  or _*has happened!*
_cf) I'*m* surprised that such a coincidence really happen*s*!_

As a non-native English speaker, the two sentences mean more or less the same.
Yet, I want to stick to the past tense or at least the present perfect tense.
I think it's a very difficult and complicated problem to choose the tense to refer to the same connotation in English, Japanese, and probably Spanish.


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## Katzuhiko Minohara

ソラティドーベルマンさん

次の様な解釈はありですか。

とんだ偶然*もあったもんだ*
その偶然は過去にしかなかったこと

とんだ偶然*もあるもんだ*
その偶然は過去にもあって、今にでも在って、今後にもあるでしょう


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Katzuhiko Minohara said:


> とんだ偶然*もあったもんだ*
> その偶然は過去にしかなかったこと


その偶然は過去に実際に起こり、今後もあり得るでしょう
（その偶然が現実におきたのは過去であり、厳密にいえば今起こっているわけではない。今後同様な偶然が再発するかについては言及していない。今後再発するかもしれないし、しないかもしれない。）



Katzuhiko Minohara said:


> とんだ偶然*もあるもんだ*
> その偶然は過去にもあって、今にでも在って、今後にもあるでしょう


その偶然は過去に実際に起こり、今後もあり得るでしょう
または、その偶然は現在起きていて、今後もあり得るでしょう
（その偶然が現実におきたのは過去であり、あるいは、今起こっている。今後同様な偶然が再発するかについては言及していない。今後再発するかもしれないし、しないかもしれない。）


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