# Petulant



## Amityville

The dictionaries give 'irascible' but translate 'irascible' back to English as 'quick-tempered' which does not mean petulant. I am looking for a better word with the same sulky and uncommunicative feel to it. I found 'acariâtre' and 'renfrogné' and 'gronchon'. 

All donations gratefully received


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## LV4-26

Hi Amityville,
_grincheux_ maybe.


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## Kelly B

To me it needs a hint of pleurnicherie - boudeur? Usually translated as sulky instead, though. I agree that irascible sounds too angry.


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## Gil

Y a-t-il un synonyme qui convient?
irascible : atrabilaire, batailleur, brutal, colère, coléreux, colérique, difficile, emporté, intraitable, irritable, ombrageux, orageux, pointilleux, prompt, rageur, soupe au lait, tempétueux, violent.

_ Intraitable_ seems pretty uncommunicative...


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## river

Maussade ?


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## Amityville

Hello people and thankyou. There are lots of words that are all quite close in meaning. I think it might take a trained scientist to work out which is the right one.
Pleurnicheur, grincheux and boudeur I had mentally filed away just for describing children, but petulance is a childish thing to be, yes, maybe I should blur my boundaries.
I do have a particular person in mind who is grown up but young. She is rarely openly angry but is inflexible (Intraitable), easily offended (soupe au lait), extremely grudge-bearing (would this be rancunier ?) and generally mécontente. She is also pointilleuse but I think of that as one of her more positive qualities. Maussade and ombrageuse would seem to be more appropriate to a misery-guts and gronchon for someone who momentarily happens to be 'that way out'. It is the grudge-bearing aspect that makes the difference.
Could a native comment on my 'acariâtre' which I am developping an attachment to ?
Renfrogné is now in the rejects pile.

Funny thing is, I am not actually planning to say it.


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## river

I never realized that "petulance" evoked so much meaning. This girl is waaay too complicated for one word.


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## xav

May I add that she probably isn't "pétulante" in the french meaning of the word - full of joy and energy ?


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## emma42

The online dictionary above does not have a translation for (French) petulant(e).  Est-ce que les francais l'utilise souvent?  J'espere que oui car j'aime bien "full of joy and energy".


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## xav

I love this word very much too ; I think it's very rare, but usually understood - it sounds expressively, no ?

So - how would you translate that in english ?


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## Agnès E.

Mon Robert & Collins donne *vivacious*. Qu'en pensez-vous, Emma ?


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## emma42

Oui, "vivacious" va bien.  I think you should add "petulant" to the faux amis, no?


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## Gil

pétulant 
[petylã] adj 
lively, exuberant

Copyright © 2000, Harrap's Multimedia, © 2000, Havas Interactive


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## xav

Amityville said:
			
		

> Hello people and thankyou. There are lots of words that are all quite close in meaning. I think it might take a trained scientist to work out which is the right one.
> Pleurnicheur, grincheux and boudeur I had mentally filed away just for describing children, but petulance is a childish thing to be, yes, maybe I should blur my boundaries.
> I do have a particular person in mind who is grown up but young. She is rarely openly angry but is inflexible (Intraitable), easily offended (soupe au lait), extremely grudge-bearing (would this be rancunier ?) and generally mécontente. She is also pointilleuse but I think of that as one of her more positive qualities. Maussade and ombrageuse would seem to be more appropriate to a misery-guts and gronchon


 
ronchon
n'est pas seulement un état temporaire, mais très souvent un trait de caractère permanent



			
				Amityville said:
			
		

> for someone who momentarily happens to be 'that way out'. It is the grudge-bearing aspect that makes the difference.
> Could a native comment on my 'acariâtre' which I am developping an attachment to ?
> Renfrogné is now in the rejects pile.
> 
> Funny thing is, I am not actually planning to say it.


 
In my mind, acariâtre is more for old people who don't like to be talked to.
I'd say "inabordable" ("intraitable" is very good, but old), "enfant gâté" or "orgueilleuse" -which probably is the real point.

En français parlé :
"Elle ne se prend pas pour rien".
There's a much worse version of the same expression I cannot transcribe here.


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## emma42

Yes, those are good too, though I prefer "vivacious" - nice Latin root.  Would depend on context and stylistic choice as well, I think.


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## Agnès E.

emma42 said:
			
		

> I think you should add "petulant" to the faux amis, no?


I was thinking about it while I wrote my reply.


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## river

Le français me fait pétulant!


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## xav

Agnès E. said:
			
		

> I was thinking about it while I wrote my reply.


 

... and what about adding petulant/pétulant to the false friends ? C'est un bel exemple, non ?


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## xav

river said:
			
		

> Le français me fait pétulant!


 
Super !
... plutôt "me fait pétuler".

  ... hélas, je ne crois pas qu'on puisse pétuler en français.

Dommage ! On pourrait tous pétuler ensemble !
Pétulons ! Pétulons de concert !

La création linguistique est-elle autorisée sur ce site ?


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## emma42

Moi aussi, le francais me fait petulante, plein de la joie de vivre.


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## Agnès E.

xav said:
			
		

> ... and what about adding petulant/pétulant to the false friends ? C'est un bel exemple, non ?


Mission accomplie, Sir! <la main au couvre-chef>


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## emma42

Xav, j'espere que oui, parce que je veux ajouter "to petulate" a la langue anglais!

"Stop petulating, you sulky child!" WARNING - this is not a proper word, although it should be!


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## emma42

Chambers 20th Century Dictionary - "petulant" from Latin "petulare", diminuitive of "petere" - "to seek".  Ooh-er.


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## xav

emma42 said:
			
		

> Yes, those are good too, though I prefer "vivacious" - nice Latin root. Would depend on context and stylistic choice as well, I think.


 
(another word I love much is "vividly")
(je parle à voix basse parce que je suis hors sujet)


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## emma42

Nice word, Xav, from Latin "vivere" - "to live" (you probably know that already - sorry).


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## xav

emma42 said:
			
		

> Nice word, Xav, from Latin "vivere" - "to live" (you probably know that already - sorry).


 
Yes ! But "vivid" or "vividly" sound much better than their latin root, I find.


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## xav

emma42 said:
			
		

> Chambers 20th Century Dictionary - "petulant" from Latin "petulare", diminuitive of "petere" - "to seek". Ooh-er.


 
I find it strange, but interesting, to give a diminutive to "seek" or "désirer".

What do you mean by : Ooh-er ?


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## emma42

Yes, I find it strange too - those ancient Romans!  Sorry, "OOh-er" is a sort of comic way of saying "Ooh" ("Ah!" en francais?).  "Ooh-er, missus (Mrs)" is a sort of comic expression from English comedy films of the 60's and 70's, relating to bawdy, risque, situations, for example:

(Woman on seeing a large lorry) "That's a big one!"
(Man, seeing the double-entendre, ie is the woman referring to the lorry or to a certain part of a man's anatomy - "Ooh-er, Missus".

It is used in English to express surprise or admiration etc.  Quite slangy, but not at all rude.


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## xav

Agnès E. said:
			
		

> Mission accomplie, Sir! <la main au couvre-chef>


 
Merci - quelle efficacité !
Emma42 et moi proposons, pour le 1er avril 2006, l'ajout au Dictionnaire du couple "pétuler / to petulate". Sans faux ami, cette fois.
(ce qui risque de poser un problème en anglais).






Anyway, thanks to Amityville who allowed us to pétuler de la sorte !


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## panjandrum

I am not sure if it will help, but I do like this word so perhaps a small, late contribution will be acceptable.

My dear friend the Oxford Enlish Dictionary gives the following Etymology:
[a. F. _pétulant_ (1350 in Hatz.-Darm.), ad. L. _petula-em_, pr. pple. of _*petulare_, dim. of _petere_ to aim at, seek, quasi ‘to aim at or assail in jest’. In sense 3, which is not found in L. or Fr., app. influenced by _petted_, _pettish_.]

...and definition (3), the only current usage:
*3.* Displaying peevish or pettish impatience and irritation, especially on slight occasion. 

[I should declare a personal interest here.
On days when my impatience and irritation at the abuse of English by my colleagues becomes so extreme that I respond only to their abuse and not to their intended message, this is how I am described.]

Edit: Bother!!! The OED quote included special characters that I have now replaced - sorry about that.


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## Amityville

Before returning in a disciplined way  to La Belle Pleurnicheuse Sans Merci...

Do you only like words with Latin roots, emma42 ? By that criterion, you could just as easily exube, which is what I do when let off the leash, but nothing beats anglo-saxon for sheer unadulterated...expressiveness.

Thanks, xav, re gronchon and acariâtre, those nuances are good to know. Acariâtre sounds akin to the English 'curmudgeonly' and I had been wondering  myself if a phrase might do the job better than an adjective, was thinking along the lines of 'elle s'en veut à tout le monde et son cochon d'Inde.' On a need-to-know-basis (jargon alert) could you possibly PM me with the rude version of 'elle se prend pas pour rien'. I *am* grown-up. I see you have got the measure of this person from your mentioning 'enfant gâté' - do you know her ?
Fortunately she  is on the periphery of my entourage but Panjandrum has now got me worried that under the veil of anonymity he might secretly be her.


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## emma42

Course I don't only like words with Latin roots - that implication is really making me petulate.  Oh no!  Panjandrum!  The thought of that makes me exhube...


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## xav

ronchon, pas gronchon !



			
				Amityville said:
			
		

> 'elle s'en veut à tout le monde et son cochon d'Inde.'


 
elle _en _veut à tout le monde et à son cochon d'Inde



			
				Amityville said:
			
		

> On a need-to-know-basis (jargon alert) could you possibly PM me with the rude version of 'elle se prend pas pour rien'. I *am* grown-up.


 
(elle _ne _se prend pas pour rien, svp)
You're certainly grown up, but maybe not everybody here ...? 
So.
Ahem. "Elle ne se prend pas pour de la m..."
Very frequent, and very rude.



			
				Amityville said:
			
		

> I see you have got the measure of this person from your mentioning 'enfant gâté' - do you know her ?


 
No - her sister.


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## emma42

"pour de la m..."???  Please tell me the rest of "m..."!


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## Agnès E.

<severe mod mode on. Putting her glasses on and frowning disapprovingly>

Ttt, gentlemen... stop chatting! Stick to the topic or open new thread for new question!

<severe mode off>


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## emma42

Really sorry, Agnes.


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## xav

Ah ! la mod ! This is no chat, but pure linguistics.



			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> "pour de la m..."??? Please tell me the rest of "m..."!


 
When you read m..., 
... means erde.


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## XavierM

emma42 said:
			
		

> Moi aussi, le francais me fait petulante, plein de la joie de vivre.


 
Bien que j'arrive un peu tard dans la conversation et qu'on se soit un peu éloigné du sujet : 

"(...) le français me *rend* pétulante, plein*e* _(it is emma, isn't it?) _de joie de vivre _(not "de la")_"

Et on pourrait même aller jusqu'à "me rend *toute* pétulante" ce qui renforce ce côté folâtre, guilleret et un peu foufou qui je trouve extrêment réjouissant   (with a little old-fashioned silliness which I happen to find rather cute).

folâtre : (adj) playful 
guilleret(te) : (adj) 1. (gai) perky 2. (frétillant) lively 
foufou, fofolle : (adj) être un peu ~ (personne) to be a bit scatterbrained; (chien) to be a bit excited 

(from Dictionnaire Cambridge Klett Compact)
(Please correct my English. Thanks.)


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## emma42

Merci, Xavier.  Ton anglais est tres bien, il ne faut pas le corriger!


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## xav

Je vois avec plaisir qu'on continue de pétuler, par ici !
(stop chatting please)


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## emma42

Don't tell me off or I will petulate.


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## xav

emma42 said:
			
		

> Don't tell me off or I will petulate.


Emma42, je vous dois des excuses - je me suis seulement aperçu cette nuit que mon injonction "stop chatting" pouvait être comprise comme s'adressant à vous !!
En fait, je parlais pour moi et j'aurais dû dire "stop chatting, xav" !

This is an example of what we call in french "esprit d'escalier". In the magnificent XVIIIth century, nothing was worse than becoming a smart answer, a brilliant joke, an excellent pun when, after the dessert and the "partie de trictrac" (or jacquet, now called backgammon  in good french), the door closed, you were going down stairs to take the cab and go home.  
Today, this expression may apply to normal answers, not only "jeux d'esprit".


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## quentin75

emma42 said:


> Moi aussi, le francais me fait petulante, plein de la joie de vivre.


 

le français me REND pétulante


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## wherezpeaceat

Capricieux ?...


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