# my son, the one I am proud of



## Stu K

*my son, the one I am proud of*

Hola a todos. Espero que estén bien. 

¿Alguien puede decirme si la frase siguiente es correcta?  'Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada pronto'.

Gracias.   Saludos desde Irlanda.


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## gengo

Stu K said:


> Hola a todos. Espero que estén bien.
> 
> ¿Alguien puede decirme si la frase siguiente es correcta?
> 
> 'mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada pronto'



Sí está bien, pero sería mejor con una coma después de "hijo."


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## fenixpollo

So you have more than one son, but you're only proud of the one who is going to Canada soon? 

If you could explain the context, it would be easier to help you.


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## gengo

fenixpollo said:


> So you have more than one son, but you're only proud of the one who is going to Canada soon?



That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the comma.  Without the comma, it means what you say; with the comma, it is like a parenthetical addition 

1. My son of whom I am very proud is going to Canada soon.
2. My son, of whom I am very proud, is going to Canada soon.

In neither Spanish nor English is it correct to use just one comma in this sentence.


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## chileno

fenixpollo said:


> So you *have more than one *son, but you're only proud of the one who is going to Canada soon?
> 
> If you could explain the context, it would be easier to help you.




How can you know that? At best it is ambiguous, right?

In any event, to me, with or without a comma it is ambiguous.


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## outkast

I'm sorry but I think the sentence is fine (although I would add "se" _se va a Canadá_). If it had a comma after hijo, then I would agree with Fenix in that he had more sons and was proud only of the one who's going to Canada.


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## gengo

outkast said:


> If it had a comma after hijo, then I would agree with Fenix in that he had more sons and was proud only of the one who's going to Canada.



That goes against the usual usage of commas.


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## outkast

gengo said:


> That goes against the usual usage of commas.



In Spanish or in English?


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## inib

outkast said:


> In Spanish or in English?


It's the same, as far as I know.


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## gengo

inib said:


> It's the same, as far as I know.



I agree.  And while Spanish speakers tend to be a bit more lax about punctuation than English speakers, in cases such as this it is important because the meaning changes.


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## outkast

OK, you may be right. Let´s wait for a native speaker.


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## William Stein

gengo said:


> I agree.  And while Spanish speakers tend to be a bit more lax about punctuation than English speakers, in cases such as this it is important because the meaning changes.



So you guys think he means: 'Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso va a Canada pronto mientras que mi hijo que me da vergüenza va a seguir chingandome aquí?


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## gengo

William Stein said:


> So you guys think he means: 'Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso va a Canada pronto mientras que mi hijo que me da vergüenza va a seguir chingandome aquí?



Not likely, but I don't know what he wants to say.  I was just telling him how to say it both ways, so he can choose.  If I had to bet, my money would be on his wanting to add information parenthetically, as in "My son is going to Canada soon.  I'm very proud of him."  In that meaning, we don't know how many children he has, nor does it matter.


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## Alice_2.0

gengo said:


> Not likely, but I don't know what he wants to say.  I was just telling him how to say it both ways, so he can choose.  If I had to bet, my money would be on his wanting to add information parenthetically, as in "My son is going to Canada soon.  I'm very proud of him."  In that meaning, we don't know how many children he has, nor does it matter.



Well, as a Spanish native, I agree with you, *gengo*. And, although as *chileno* stated, the sentence is kind of ambiguous in both cases, if you add the comma after "hijo", most people will understand that you're just saying you're pride of that son who is going to Canada, regardless if you have any other sons and how you feel about them.

 And, as *outkast* said, I'd rather add "*se* va a Canad*á* pronto", or change it to "va a ir pronto a Canadá", or even "se va a ir pronto a Canadá", either of them would sound more natural.

Cheers!


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## Lurrezko

Sin comas es una especificativa: mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso, ése y no otro. Implica que hay más hijos, como dice Fenixpollo (e implica también que los demás hijos son un desastre, poco merecedores del orgullo paterno). Con comas es una explicativa: explica una característica del hijo en un inciso. Puede que haya más hijos, pero no se deduce de la frase. Ambas serían correctas pero con sentidos distintos, como ya se ha dicho.

Pero o dos comas o ninguna. Con una sola detrás de _orgulloso_, lo que hacemos es separar sujeto de predicado, lo cual es incorrecto, según yo lo veo.

Un saludo


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## William Stein

gengo said:


> Not likely, but I don't know what he wants to say.  I was just telling him how to say it both ways, so he can choose.  If I had to bet, my money would be on his wanting to add information parenthetically, as in "My son is going to Canada soon.  I'm very proud of him."  In that meaning, we don't know how many children he has, nor does it matter.



I know, I was just joking. That's the impression I got when I read it without commas at first: What about the sons you're not proud of? 
The rule is that a restrictive relative clause should have no commas but a non-restrictive relative clause should be set off by commas like parentheses:
My son of whom I'm proud is  ->restrictive (one son out of many)
My son, of whom I'm proud, is... -> non-restrictive (parenthetical remark)


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## nelliot53

Stu K said:


> Hola a todos. Espero que esten bien.
> 
> Alguien puede decirme si la frase siguiente es correcta?
> 
> 
> 'mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada pronto'
> 
> Gracias
> 
> saludos desde Irlanda.



Yo arreglaría todo de esta manera, para que no haya mal entendidos:  "Mi hijo, de quien estoy muy orgulloso, se va a Cánada pronto."  (Así, otros hijos quedan fuera y sólo querríamos saber por qué estás tan orgulloso de él.)


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## k-in-sc

I'm still waiting to hear what the idea is that he wanted to express.


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## chileno

Lurrezko said:


> Sin comas es una especificativa: mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso, ése y no otro. Implica que hay más hijos, como dice Fenixpollo (e implica también que los demás hijos son un desastre, poco merecedores del orgullo paterno). Con comas es una explicativa: explica una característica del hijo en un inciso. Puede que haya más hijos, pero no se deduce de la frase. Ambas serían correctas pero con sentidos distintos, como ya se ha dicho.
> 
> Pero o dos comas o ninguna. Con una sola detrás de _orgulloso_, lo que hacemos es separar sujeto de predicado, lo cual es incorrecto, según yo lo veo.
> 
> Un saludo




De verdad Lurre? O sea que no puedo estar orgulloso del unico hijo que tengo y que se está yendo a la Uni?

Además de poder decir lo mismo de diferentes modo, no puedo decir que "Mi hijo, del cual estoy orgulloso, se va a la Uni", sin tener más hijos.

De verdad Lurre?


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## Lurrezko

La segunda no implica nada, amigo chileno: lleva ese inciso entre comas, es una explicativa, como digo. En el primer caso, sin comas, estás especificando de qué hijo hablas, de modo que se intuye que tienes más. Imagina ésta:

_Mi hijo que estudia en Alemania ha ganado una beca._

¿Es hijo ûnico? 

Un saludo


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## Stu K

¡Vale! Miren, me referí a mi hijo que estuvo a punto de ir a Canadá de quien yo estaba orgulloso. Y lo siento por la coma perdida. Que no me sentía orgulloso de los otros que no hicieron nada, solo a este hijo viajando.

Mi hijo, del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada
My son, whom I am proud of, is going to Canada 

Gracias a todos  que hayan respondido 

Si creo que tienes razón, =) pero creo que me han entendido, que querian ser quisquilloso. ;D


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## k-in-sc

I still don't understand how many children you have. It seems like you're giving conflicting information. Could you just say it in English?


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## Stu K

La cosa es que no importa cuantos hijos tenga yo .... digo que estoy orgulloso de UNO DE MIS HIJOS (UNO HIJO, ONE CHILD) QUE VA A IR A CANADA, NO A LOS OTROS QUE SE QUEDARAN EN IRLANDA 

No he dado malinterpretaciones..... de hecho lo que he dicho es bastante sencillo


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## k-in-sc

You don't get it, then. I don't think chileno does either. Oh well.


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## chileno

Lurrezko said:


> La segunda no implica nada, amigo chileno: lleva ese inciso entre comas, es una explicativa, como digo. En el primer caso, sin comas, estás especificando de qué hijo hablas, de modo que se intuye que tienes más. Imagina ésta:
> *
> Mi hijo que estudia en Alemania ha ganado una beca.*
> 
> ¿Es hijo ûnico?
> 
> Un saludo




Para mí, sí.

Mi hijo, que (ahora) estudia en Canadá, se ganó una beca. (no se sabe si tiene o no más hermanos)

Mi hijo, *el* que estudia en Canadá, se ganó una beca. (para mí ese "el" es indicativo de que ese hijo tiene hermanos.



k-in-sc said:


> You don't get it, then. I don't think chileno does either. Oh well.



That, I understand. Lurre? I don't.


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## Stu K

Que quieres saber exactamente? What is it that you want to know?


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## chileno

Stu K said:


> Que quieres saber exactamente? What is it that you want to know?



What you want to say in English and then we'll see if what you say in Spanish is correct.


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## Lurrezko

Stu K said:


> Que quieres saber exactamente? What is it that you want to know?



Si no quieres especificar que hablas de ese hijo y no de otro, escríbelo entre comas. Así de fácil.

Un saludo


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## chileno

Ah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Se está hablando de la coma.

Mi hijo que (ahora) estudia en Canada, ganó una beca.

A fuerza tiene que tener hermanos, ah?


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## Lurrezko

Eso es. Y en tu ejemplo sobra esa coma: o pones dos y haces un inciso o no pones ninguna. Con una sola, separas el sujeto del predicado, lo cual es incorrecto. 

Un saludo


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## Stu K

Vale, aqui se lo escribo...

My son, the one I am proud of (perhaps because he finished university etc etc...), is going to Canada (I am only proud of this son because he is going to Canada and my other children are not)

Mi hijo, del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada para trabajar y vivir 

Gracias


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## William Stein

Stu K said:


> Vale, aqui se lo escribo...
> 
> My son, the one I am proud of (perhaps because he finished university etc etc...), is going to Canada (I am only proud of this son because he is going to Canada and my other children are not)
> 
> Mi hijo, del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canada para trabajar y vivir
> 
> Gracias



En este caso se escribe sin comas: 
Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso va a Canada.


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## Lurrezko

William Stein said:


> En este caso se escribe sin comas:
> Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso va a Canada.



De acuerdo. O entre comas pero duplicando el antecedente, como en inglés:

_Mi hijo, ese del que estoy orgulloso, va a Canadá._

Un saludo


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## inib

William Stein said:


> En este caso se escribe sin comas:
> Mi hijo del que estoy orgulloso va a Canada.


Where on earth did you get that from?


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## William Stein

inib said:


> Where on earth did you get that from?



To be precise, from the point on Earth where my brain happens to be at the time, San José, and it was confirmed by Lurrezko, a knowledgeable native speaker, so where exactly does your objection come from?

Anyway, it's a simple matter of logic. The OP just explained: My son, the one I am proud of (perhaps because he finished university etc etc...), is going to Canada (I am only proud of this son because he is going to Canada and my other children are not)

That means that he has several sons and is defining which son he is referring to instead of giving parenthetical information. Such a definition calls for defining/restrictive relative clause, hence no commas.


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## inib

William Stein said:


> To be precise, from the point on Earth where my brain happens to be at the time, San José, and it was confirmed by Lurrezko, a knowledgeable native speaker, so where exactly does your objection come from?
> 
> Anyway, it's a simple matter of logic. The OP just explained: My son, the one I am proud of (perhaps because he finished university etc etc...), is going to Canada (I am only proud of this son because he is going to Canada and my other children are not)
> 
> That means that he has several sons and is defining which son he is referring to instead of giving parenthetical information. Such a definition calls for defining/restrictive relative clause, hence no commas.


Ok, My sincere apologies. I see that it is a possible, though unlikely statement.


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## William Stein

inib said:


> Ok, My sincere apologies. I see that it is a possible, though unlikely statement.



I thought it seemed unlikely, too, until he explained it. It shows how important the context is. For example, "I let my wife whom I met in Casablanca sleep with me on Thursdays. Isn't that big'a me?


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## nelliot53

William Stein said:


> I thought it seemed unlikely, too, until he explained it. It shows how important the context is. For example, "I let my wife whom I met in Casablanca sleep with me on Thursdays. Isn't that big'a me?



I get the pun in the question! But, should I deduct from the lack of commas in the statement that you have more than one wife?


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## William Stein

nelliot53 said:


> I get the pun in the question! But, should I deduct from the lack of commas in the statement that you have more than one wife?



Exactly because it's a defining/restrictive clause (it's a joke, though, in reality one is sometimes more than enough...)


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## k-in-sc

(should I *deduce*)
This whole clause issue is far more trouble than it's worth. To me the best approach is to bypass it completely: "My son is going to Canada soon. I'm so proud of him." Unless, of course, the real message is that the other kids are slackers.


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## Stu K

Gracias a todos, he aprendido mucho


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## nelliot53

nelliot53 said:


> I get the pun in the question! But, should I *deduce* from the lack of commas in the statement that you have more than one wife?


  Thanks for pointing out my error, *K-In-C*.


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