# Danish: ad pommeren til [Pommern]



## 2sesame

Hello everyone,

My mother used this phrase but was curious as to how to explain it in English. Has anyone got a simple explanantion for the phrase 'ad pommeren til'  Thanks so much.


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## Sepia

2sesame said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> My mother used this phrase but was curious as to how to explain it in English. Has anyone got a simple explanantion for the phrase 'ad pommeren til'  Thanks so much.



Det lugter ad Pommern til. (It smells like ...)

Det er bare helt ad Pommern til som han kører bil. (His driving sucks)

"Pommern" is a region of Germany - proper name. Some may write it without a capital P, though. Acceptable ...

A similar expression (not used much any more): Det passer ad Wandsbek til. (When measures or information is totally false). Wandsbek is a part of Hamburg.

They are both regions with which people had negative assosiations.


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## duckie

To add to that, using the word 'pommern' is a way to soften the impact of the phrase a little. The stronger expression would be to use 'helvede' (hell) instead of 'pommern'. Pommern can also be replaced with 'hækkenfeldt', to about the same effect (does anyone know the etymology of this word?).


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## Lingvisten

I think that pommern is a noa word, wich is used instead of the taboo word pokker, "ad pokkers til" (the "s" is a leftover from a direction genetiv, once used in danish). According to the dictionary of ethymolgy, pokker is the same word as english "pock" as in "smallpox". In danish means udslæt (rash),  kopper (smallpox) and fanden (the devil). ad pommern til = ad helvedes til.


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## Lingvisten

hækkenfeldt is probably the name of a place. There once was a hækkenfeldt mill nær fuglebjerg. i would guess, that hækkenfeldt is used as a substitution for helvede, wich you wouldn't say because such a word was taboo. a very common way of dealing with dangerous words, was to change it into something similar (like sørens instead of satans), in this case, with the same beginning consonant. hope this answer is correct.


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## Sepia

Lingvisten said:


> I think that pommern is a noa word, wich is used instead of the taboo word pokker, "ad pokkers til" (the "s" is a leftover from a direction genetiv, once used in danish). According to the dictionary of ethymolgy, pokker is the same word as english "pock" as in "smallpox". In danish means udslæt (rash),  kopper (smallpox) and fanden (the devil). ad pommern til = ad helvedes til.




And why would they name a North German region like that? If it was originally a word with relation to dangerous illnesses at feudal ruler would hardly have used it together with his name and title. 

Besides, in the days of the Warsaw Treaty and cold war an elite unit of the Polish armed forces was named "5th Pommeran (=pommersk) Parachute Division". (They, by the way, were the ones that had a significantly high number of personel trained in speaking Danish! One might wonder why ...)

Pommern is a geographical name.


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## Lingvisten

No. I was not saying that pommern was a word invented for the purpose of replacing pokker. Pommern is of caurse a geographical name. no doubt about that. It is just, that when you need a word to replace pokker, you would pick a word, wich is fonetical close to the taboo word. Pommern was a known geographical name in denmark, and therefore this could easily replace pokker. Pommern was not originaly a noa word, but was used as that in "ad pommern til". I don't know if that's the exact case, haven't looked it up. But it just easily fits into this way of disguising taboo words. like:
satans -> sørens
hækkenfeldt -> helvede
and so on...


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## Lingvisten

I just found out, that hekkenfeldt, is refering to the Icelandic volcano of Hekla. According to folk beliefs witches would gather on Hekla on midsommers eve, to celebrate with the devil. Hekla was, as a volcano, believed to be a direct entrance to hell, and therefore an unpleasent place.


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## Anne Iversen

#3

It's somewhat scary that I actually know this story 

It is believed by many that the expression comes from the days of the sailing ships (that is before they added a motor hihi). If you wanted to sail from the isle of Bornholm to Denmark you risked to end up in Prommern, Germany, because of the strong winds and the current. You needed to be an excellent sailor in order to interpret the winds and the current. 

Another possible explanation of the phrase, which is highly plausible considering the present meaning (to go far away), is that Pommern in fact is far away from Denmark. The incompetent King Erik (1382-1459) was dethroned in 1439 by the "Rigsråd" and he was sent to live in Gotland but he fled to Pommern where he lived to the end of his days. (he fled far away, where no one could find him)

Spelling:

ad pommern til
ad Pommern til

synonyms: 

ad Hekkenfeldt til
ad hekkenfeldt til
ad helvede til
ad Wandsbek til


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## Sepia

Anne Iversen said:


> #3
> 
> ...
> synonyms:
> 
> ad Hekkenfeldt til
> ad hekkenfeldt til
> ad helvede til
> ad Wandsbek til


 

I must object to the last one "ad Wandsbek til" - it has a different meaning than the others as it refers to something which is unexact or untrue - and not something disgusting or the like.

Example: My father tries to fit to pieces of wood together that somebody else cut. They don't fit. He'd say: "Hvem har skaaret det trae til! Det passer jo ad Wandsbek til." But he'd never say "Hvem har lige vaeret paa toilettet - det stinker jo ad "Wandsbek til" - no it cannot be used that way. There you'd say " - det stinker jo ad Pommern til". 

The history of - "ad Wandsbek til" meaning something terribly unexact or untrue has to do with bogus lottery tickets being sold in Copenhagen. In case your number was drawn you'd claim your prize-money in Wandsbek - still Denmark at the time, but so far away from Copenhagen that it would take a long time to find out that it was a fraud.


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## Anne Iversen

Sepia said:


> I must object to the last one "ad Wandsbek til" - it has a different meaning than the others as it refers to something which is unexact or untrue - and not something disgusting or the like.
> 
> Example: My father tries to fit to pieces of wood together that somebody else cut. They don't fit. He'd say: "Hvem har skaaret det trae til! Det passer jo ad Wandsbek til." But he'd never say "Hvem har lige vaeret paa toilettet - det stinker jo ad "Wandsbek til" - no it cannot be used that way. There you'd say " - det stinker jo ad Pommern til".




I completely understand. But just because that's the way your father used the expression doesn't mean that it cannot have 2 different meanings.

The Institute of Lexicography at Aaarhus Business School/Aarhus University states that the phrase has two meanings:

It can be used as a mild term of abuse (for example your father's case) if you wish to express your discontent/disapproval/disappointment  with something 

BUT it can also be used as a request or a wish for someone to go far away (ad pommern til)


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