# Arabic "funduq"



## Arabus

Hi,

It has been said that the Arabic word _funduq_ "hotel" comes from Greek. Can anyone think of a Greek word similar to _Pondoc_ > _funduq_ that might have given the Arabic word.

Thanks,


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## olivia vava

Maybe the word Πανδοχείο (*p*a*ndoc*hío). But I not quite sure.
Any other sugestions?


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## Arabus

If this is a classical word then it is certainly the one ... great, thanks ...


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## orthophron

I do not know if the Greek word "foundouki" has any connection with the Arabic word for hotel. I'll just cite its etymology and all its rout.
Pontos (Greek word for "sea") > pontikos (adj). 
"Pontikon karuon" is a nut of Pontos*, the hazel nut > findik (Turkish) > foundouki (Greek).

*Pontos stands for Black Sea.


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## palomnik

A quick check of Lane's Lexicon indicates that it comes originally from the Greek πανδοχειον, via Farsi. Interestingly enough, it also mentions that ﻓﻨﺪﻕ
means "hazelnut."

Or at least that's what Lane's sources thought. I can't find the word πανδοχειον in any Greek dictionaries online, but my Greek is pretty rusty, and I don't know modern Greek at all. I'm sure one of our more competent foreros can expand on this.


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## Frank06

Hi,

My (Classical) Greek dictionary gives πανδοκεῖον (inn, ATT, KOIN), with -δοχ- as alternative form.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Aoyama

Food for thought, the word is also used in French, as *fondouq*, sometimes* fondouk *(or also some slightly different spellings).
It may not come from Greek but from Latin :
Lat. médiév. _funda_ (901 ds _Latin-ital. Med. Aev._), _fundicum_ (av. 1138 en Italie ds NIERM.), _fondacum_ (1150 ds PELLEGR., _Arab.,_ p. 426), a. esp. _alfóndega_ (1033 ds COR., _s.v. alhóndiga_). *L'ar. funduq/fundaq* avait déjà donné _fonde_ en a. fr. (_ca_ 1200 _Assises de Jérusalem_ II, 171 [ms. XIVe s.] cité par Arveiller ds _op. cit.,_ p. 473) et _fondique_ en m. fr.


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## Mahaodeh

palomnik said:


> A quick check of Lane's Lexicon indicates that it comes originally from the Greek πανδοχειον, via Farsi. Interestingly enough, it also mentions that ﻓﻨﺪﻕ
> means "hazelnut."


 
There is in Arabic a sort of connection between hotel and hazlenut; the former is fonduk and latter is bunduk - it may be that the P turned to F for hotel and B for hazelnut.

This is very interesting.  I thought both were Farsi; apparently not.


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## palomnik

Aoyama said:


> Food for thought, the word is also used in French, as *fondouq*, sometimes* fondouk *(or also some slightly different spellings).
> It may not come from Greek but from Latin :
> Lat. médiév. _funda_ (901 ds _Latin-ital. Med. Aev._), _fundicum_ (av. 1138 en Italie ds NIERM.), _fondacum_ (1150 ds PELLEGR., _Arab.,_ p. 426), a. esp. _alfóndega_ (1033 ds COR., _s.v. alhóndiga_). *L'ar. funduq/fundaq* avait déjà donné _fonde_ en a. fr. (_ca_ 1200 _Assises de Jérusalem_ II, 171 [ms. XIVe s.] cité par Arveiller ds _op. cit.,_ p. 473) et _fondique_ en m. fr.


 
I suspect that the French usage of _fondouk _came from the French colonization in North Africa.  Or if it did come from Latin, it was reinforced by contact with the Arabs.


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## Aoyama

> suspect that the French usage of _fondouk _came from the French colonization in North Africa. Or if it did come from Latin, it was reinforced by contact with the Arabs.


Though it is true that many Maghreban Arabic words found their way into French after 1830, this one is much much older.
But it may be an example of a "round-trip" word, who came from Latin, changed in Arabic, and went back to French (and other European languages).
I guess it may be linked to the Lingua Franca used in the Mediterranean, from the time of the Crusaders.
The dating is circa 11th century ...


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## Arabus

Hi,

Like Maha said, "hazlenuts" appear in Arabic as _bunduq_ whereas "hotel" is _funduq_.

French dictionaries define _fondouk_ in a way that makes it clear that this word comes from the colonization period in North Africa.


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## Aoyama

> French dictionaries define _fondouk_ in a way that makes it clear that this word comes from the colonization period in North Africa.


Really ? Which dictionary/ies ?
The quote in my post #7 comes from the TLF (Trésor de la Langue Française), available on line. You can clearly see the dates mentioned.


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## Arabus

I looked in some online dictionaries and they say things like:

"endroit où se tient le marché, entrepôt des marchandises dans les pays arabes"

They all say "Arabe" or "North African."


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## Abu Bishr

Hi everybody

What is interesting is that in Afrikaans we use the word "pondok" to refer to a 'hut' or 'shelter' of some sort but in a slightly perjorative sense. It must have come to Afrikaans not via Dutch but via Malayu that was spoken by the Indonesians that were brought to South Afrika as exiles or slaves from the the Indonesian Archipelago. Whether its originally Indonesian or from the Arabic "funduq" that got its way into Malayu, I'm not certain. But what is interesting is that the word ended up in South Africa.

An online source says that the word "pondok" or its diminutive "pondokkie" is used in South Africa for 'hut' or 'shelter' but that its origin is uncertain.

Most of what I've expressed above are mere hunches, and subject to confirmation.


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## palomnik

Abu Bishr said:


> Whether its originally Indonesian or from the Arabic "funduq" that got its way into Malayu, I'm not certain. But what is interesting is that the word ended up in South Africa.


 
Interesting indeed.  But then the word "kaffir" is ultimately from Arabic too.


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## nejikun

If I am not wrong the word "πανδοχείο" in Greek means exactly "inn". I suppose it derives from παν- which means all, everything and δοχείο which means "vat" the container for liquids.


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## robbie_SWE

Not trying to let this thread drift further away from its original scope, but in Romanian we have the word *funduc*. 

*Funduc* was apparently a Turkish coin made of gold used during the 18th and 19th century in Romania during the Ottoman rule. 

Might there be a connection? 

 robbie


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## Mahaodeh

nejikun said:


> If I am not wrong the word "πανδοχείο" in Greek means exactly "inn". I suppose it derives from παν- which means all, everything and δοχείο which means "vat" the container for liquids.


 
Is that modern or Classical Greek? and, if you don't mind, can you please translitrate that to English?


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## apmoy70

Mahaodeh said:


> Is that modern or Classical Greek? and, if you don't mind, can you please translitrate that to English?


Both classical and modern.
Classical: Πανδοχεῖον-->Pandokh*ee**on
Modern: Πανδοχείο-->Pandokh*ee**o (bold suggests the stress)
*Pronounced as in eel


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## ahshav

I always thought it came from Hebrew - Pundak פונדק, or do they both come from Greek. Anyone know about the origin of the Hebrew word?


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## Mr.Slade

ahshav said:


> I always thought it came from Hebrew - Pundak פונדק, or do they both come from Greek. Anyone know about the origin of the Hebrew word?


 
Even-Shoshan's Hebrew dictionary says it comes from the Greek pandokeion, previously cited.


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