# When I makes tea...



## disturb_me

Hi,

I'm trying to translate part of Ulysses (it's so hard!) and I need to know how you'd say "When I makes tea I makes tea".

Obviously it's grammatically incorrect but there must be some sort of equivalent?!


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## natasha2000

Joyce's Ullysses?

Try incorrect Spanish...

The thing is that no usual mistake occurs me right now. I mean, it must be a mistake made by low-educated people, as it is in English...? Or it is more a regional thing?


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## disturb_me

It's a grammatical mistake in English, but I don't know what the equivalent grammatical mistake would be in Spanish...

And yes, Joyce's Ulysses.


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## natasha2000

The thing is that nobody woul make such a mistake in Spanish, I mean, with the verb hacer. First person singular es "hago" and I have never heard anyone making any kind of mistake with "hago". Puedes poner "Cuando yo hace té, yo hace té". but this would sound rather like a "foreigner-learning-Spanish" mistake than "native speaker" mistake...


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## Antpax

Hola:

Uf, difícil. "Cuando hazo té, hazo té", but it is a very big mistake, I do not think nobody would comit it.

Better wait for more opinions.

Cheers.

Ant

Edit: Natasha´s explanation is better than mine, so better read hers.


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## natasha2000

Hombre, "makes" es también un error tan enorme como una casa! 

Creo que aquí tiene que ser un error que hacen los hablantes nativos, y no un error tipo "extranjero aprende español". Por eso tampoco me gusta mucho lo que propuse... 

Sabes, algo como "hicistes" en vez de "hiciste" - es un error muy común y muy frecuente hecho por los mismos españoles...


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## Antpax

natasha2000 said:


> Hombre, "makes" es también un error tan enorme como una casa!
> 
> Creo que aquí tiene que ser un error que hacen los hablantes nativos, y no un error tipo "extranjero aprende español". Por eso tampoco me gusta mucho lo que propuse...
> 
> Sabes, algo como "hicistes" en vez de "hiciste" - es un error muy común y muy frecuente hecho por los mismos españoles...


 
Sí, van por ahí los tiros, pero es que el verbo hacer es tan común y es de los primeros que se aprende que no creo que nadie se equivoque con él. 

Habrá que buscar otro me temo, se me ocurrió "cuando _presparo_ té, _presparo_ té", pero no me acababa de convencer.

A ver si alguien nos ilumina, porque ésto tendrá que estar ya traducido ¿no?-


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## disturb_me

Pero no puedo usar "hicistes" porque es "tu", no "yo"...


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## disturb_me

Antpax said:


> Sí, van por ahí los tiros, pero es que el verbo hacer es tan común y es de los primeros que se aprende que no creo que nadie se equivoque con él.
> 
> Habrá que buscar otro me temo, se me ocurrió "cuando _presparo_ té, _presparo_ té", pero no me acababa de convencer.
> 
> A ver si alguien nos ilumina, porque ésto tendrá que estar ya traducido ¿no?-


 
I take it that's from preparar?


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## natasha2000

disturb_me said:


> Pero no puedo usar "hicistes" porque es "tu", no "yo"...



No, no, por supuesto que no, sólo daba el ejemplo de tipo de error que tiene que ser. Desgraciadamente, ese no nos vale ya que no coincide ni en la persona ni en el tiempo usado... 

Preparo... Qué más? El verbo cocinar? Hervir?

Coccino?
Hervo en vez de hiervo?

Lo que pasa es que no sé si al usar estos verbos la frase sigue siendo natural... 

¿Qué más se puede hacer con té?


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## Antpax

disturb_me said:


> I take it that's from preparar?


 
Exact. It comes from "preparar" but wrongly said. The correct form would be "cuando *preparo"* without the "s", but I am not very happy with this option.

Ant


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## Paul Clancy

Just a few important comments:

Ulysses - is a difficult read and I would imagine, difficult to translate

The grammatical error is deliberate ... Joyce is one of Ireland's great writers and Ulysses with its multiple narrative voices and extravagant wordplay became a virtual thesaurus of styles for writers wrestling with the problem of rendering contemporary life.

In Ulysses, Joyce describes and plays with contemporary life, as it was then with the richness of language used by the Irish at that time. 

When I makes tea, I makes tea .... means really, when I set about making some tea, I make a proper pot/cup of tea.  The grammatical error is introduced for emphasis ... I would suggest therefore that in translating this you look for some way in Spanish to put the same kind of emphasis on one's ability and determination to make a good pot/cup of tea.

Suerte.

Un saludo


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## Masood

I agree with Paul's comment. 
As such, a possible translation might simply be:_ cuando preparo té, lo preparo muy bien._
A better option will no doubt come from the native Spanish speakers.

Cheers


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## Antpax

Paul Clancy said:


> Just a few important comments:
> 
> Ulysses - is a difficult read and I would imagine, difficult to translate
> 
> The grammatical error is deliberate ... Joyce is one of Ireland's great writers and Ulysses with its multiple narrative voices and extravagant wordplay became a virtual thesaurus of styles for writers wrestling with the problem of rendering contemporary life.
> 
> In Ulysses, Joyce describes and plays with contemporary life, as it was then with the richness of language used by the Irish at that time.
> 
> When I makes tea, I makes tea .... means really, when I set about making some tea, I make a proper pot/cup of tea. The grammatical error is introduced for emphasis ... I would suggest therefore that in translating this you look for some way in Spanish to put the same kind of emphasis on one's ability and determination to make a good pot/cup of tea.
> 
> Suerte.
> 
> Un saludo


 
Thank you Paul. It is a little clearer now. We have a similar phrase in Spanish, although it has no mistake. It would be "si me pongo me pongo si no, no me pongo" ("ponerse a " means "start doing something"), and maybe could a close translation, but I am not sure.

Cheers.

Ant


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## DGM

y algo como: cuando me pongo a hacer té, me pongo.
_cuando me pongo, me pongo_ es una frase que utilizamos para dar a entender la idea que dicen paul y masood.


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## natasha2000

The problem is the grammatical mistake. Translation to Spanish is very simple, and the problem is that it is difficult to make a grammatical mistake as it was done in English sentence. 

Masood's suggestion is excellent, but... It contains no grammatical mistake, and it is very hard to make one in such a simple sentence, which would look as if it was made by a native speaker. All mistakes that occur to us would be mistakes made by foreigners trying tolearn Spanish, and not by native ones.

So, the question is: How to translate it with a mistake of a native speaker?


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## natasha2000

Antpax, DGM... 

Cuando me pongo, me pongo... 

¿Dónde está el error?  Nos hace falta el error gramatical....


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## Antpax

natasha2000 said:


> Anpax, DGM...
> 
> Cuando me pongo, me pongo...
> 
> ¿Dónde está el error?


 
En ningún sitio, hay está el problema ¿o no?. La idea del error es darle énfasis a la frase, quizá podamos darle énfasis sin tener que introducir un error. 

Vuelvo a lo de antes, ¿nadie se ha leído el libro en español? Es que ya me quedo con la duda para todo el día .

Saludos.

Ant


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## Masood

I _think _the grammatical mistake is part of a fixed expression in English, so needn't necessarily carry across into Spanish. 

Here's another example:
A: Are you going to eat _all _that food? There's enough to feed an army there!
B: When I eats, I eats!

Another example (unrelated) of a grammatically incorrect expression is _The truth will out_.


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## natasha2000

Yo ya he empezado a buscar el texto en internet... 

Creo que tiene que existir el error, porque además de la expresión, hay que dejar claro que se trata de un ser inculto, y eso te dice claramente la frase en inglés. Es como las tonterías de Sancho Pansa que decía algunas palabras "cultas" al revés y erróneamente, con que, además de dar mucha gracia, quedaba bien claro de que clase viene Sancho...

Ahora mismo me acabo de recordar de uno de esos errores saliendo de la boca de un buscón en Sevilla (en Don Quijote, por supuesto ), diciendo "pompa" en vez de "popa"....


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## natasha2000

Masood said:


> I _think _the grammatical mistake is part of a fixed expression in English, so needn't necessarily carry across into Spanish.
> 
> Here's another example:
> A: Are you going to eat _all _that food? There's enough to feed an army there!
> B: When I eats, I eats!
> 
> Another example (unrelated) of a grammatically incorrect expression is _The truth will out_.



Do you want to say, that this particular expression is as it is, I mean, no matter the education of a speaker, this expression will be always said like this, with a mistake?


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## Paul Clancy

Natasha 
When I makes tea, I makes tea .... was something you would hear said by poor and poorly educated Irish people years ago.  It would also have been incorrect but knowingly used for emphasis as I have said earlier.  Perhaps what you need to do to translate the sentence well would be to think how poorly educated people expressed themselves in Spanish years ago ... for therein lies the answer.  Surely there is some word used in Spanish which while incorrect has found its way into everyday speech and is used to imply "determination", "acquired skill" that might be able to be introduced into the sentence so that the grammatical error is introduced.

I cannot think of anything myself sadly, but maybe deliberately introducing grammatical error to an earlier suggestion eg "_cuando preparo té, LA preparo muy bien. *LA deliberately incorrect


_


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## Paul Clancy

natasha2000 said:


> Do you want to say, that this particular expression is as it is, I mean, no matter the education of a speaker, this expression will be always said like this, with a mistake?




Yes the mistake would always be there ... as I said in an earlier message, sometimes things creep into everyday speech and become part of the speech whether correct or not, whether used by an educated person or not.  This is what I meant with my query regarding Spanish.  Has this not happened with the Spanish language?  it surely must have, because it has happened with the English language across a number of countries.  The example used above would be understood and accepted in Britain, IReland and I would imagine US (though perhaps a US person could confirm).


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## natasha2000

Paul Clancy said:


> Natasha
> When I makes tea, I makes tea .... was something you would hear said by poor and poorly educated Irish people years ago.  It would also have been incorrect but knowingly used for emphasis as I have said earlier.  Perhaps what you need to do to translate the sentence well would be to think how poorly educated people expressed themselves in Spanish years ago ... for therein lies the answer.  Surely there is some word used in Spanish which while incorrect has found its way into everyday speech and is used to imply "determination", "acquired skill" that might be able to be introduced into the sentence so that the grammatical error is introduced.
> 
> I cannot think of anything myself sadly, but maybe deliberately introducing grammatical error to an earlier suggestion eg "_cuando preparo té, LA preparo muy bien. *LA deliberately incorrect
> 
> 
> _



Thank you, Paul. The thing is, that this particular sentence, I dare to say, Nobody would say it in Spanish with a grammatical mistake. I know what you want to say, and I am sure there are loads of other phrases idioms and expressions in Spanish like this one in English, but not this one  But here I, too, cannot help any more than I already did, since this is the question for native and only native speakers...

Changing the article from masculine to femenine is a typical "foreigners" mistake.

On the other hand, if all that phrase, together with its mistake, serves only for emphasizing.... Maybe in the end, there is no need for this mistake, and it is ok if it is said just "Cuando me pongo a preparar te, me pongo de verdad."

It would be interesting to know the solution of a translator to Spanish... Maybve, if someone has this book in Spanish.... I found this sentence, it is at the very beginning of the book. In Word, with Arial 12, it is on page 13. (I downloaded it


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## natasha2000

Paul Clancy said:


> Yes the mistake would always be there ... as I said in an earlier message, sometimes things creep into everyday speech and become part of the speech whether correct or not, whether used by an educated person or not.  This is what I meant with my query regarding Spanish.  Has this not happened with the Spanish language?  it surely must have, because it has happened with the English language across a number of countries.  The example used above would be understood and accepted in Britain, IReland and I would imagine US (though perhaps a US person could confirm).



If this is the case, then I change my mind and suggest to forget about the grammar mistake.


PS: I've learnt another interesting thing today. Thank you all.


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## Paul Clancy

natasha2000 said:


> If this is the case, then I change my mind and suggest to forget about the grammar mistake.
> 
> 
> PS: I've learnt another interesting thing today. Thank you all.



To be honest, I think this is the only solution (ie not to translate the incorrect grammar) but to put something in Spanish which emphasizes the ability to make a good cup/pot of tea.  I agree it really does need to be a native Spanish speaker who can shed some light on idiomatic speech which may have slipped into the Spanish language but at the same time be not quite grammatically correct.

Me thinks this is the only solution! (again this is another thing that has slipped into English (me thinks ... as an emphasis BUT grammatically incorrect ... however non natives need to be very careful in using this kind of emphasis because unless it is done with irony it can reflect badly and make the listener think that the speaker has a poor grasp of grammar.)


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## gotitadeleche

> _The example used above would be understood and accepted in Britain, IReland and I would imagine US (though perhaps a US person could confirm)._



As a speaker of AE, I can confirm that this expression can also be used and understood in the US. It can be used by educated speakers to give emphasis and a touch of humor to what is being said.

In certain situations we might play with the tenses for a humorous effect. For example: friends have stopped by my house to invite me out for some fun. They are urging me to hurry and get ready. As I grab my keys and head out the door, I might say "I is ready!!" (strong emphasis on the word ready)Or another example that a friend of mine used to say: "Is I is, or is I ain't...?" It is done for humor and emphasis. We know it is grammatically incorrect and don't normally talk that way.

P.S. I rather like the _"cuando me pongo a hacer té, me pongo"_ solution.


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## natasha2000

Paul Clancy said:


> To be honest, I think this is the only solution (ie not to translate the incorrect grammar) but to put something in Spanish which emphasizes the ability to make a good cup/pot of tea.  I agree it really does need to be a native Spanish speaker who can shed some light on idiomatic speech which may have slipped into the Spanish language but at the same time be not quite grammatically correct.
> 
> Me thinks this is the only solution! (again this is another thing that has slipped into English (me thinks ... as an emphasis BUT grammatically incorrect ... however non natives need to be very careful in using this kind of emphasis because unless it is done with irony it can reflect badly and make the listener think that the speaker has a poor grasp of grammar.)



I noticed a long time ago (in movies and series, of course ) That is some parts of Scotland it is very usual to use *me *instead of *my*, for example. Very interesting. Of course, I suppose that together with irony and all that, the sentence should be accompanied by a correct Scottish accent, shouldn't it?


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## disturb_me

Hmm I'm not sure whether they're saying "me" or whether they're speaking quickly and their accent makes it sound like they're saying me instead of my... I know what you mean though. I think it's just a different way of saying the word rather than actually saying "me" instead of "my". Happens in Northern England as well.


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## natasha2000

disturb_me said:


> Hmm I'm not sure whether they're saying "me" or whether they're speaking quickly and their accent makes it sound like they're saying me instead of my... I know what you mean though. I think it's just a different way of saying the word rather than actually saying "me" instead of "my". Happens in Northern England as well.



Oh,yes, they do say "me lassie" for example, because I saw it written in dialog lists of TV films and series while I was working as a movie translator for a TV station in Belgrade...


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## Jeromed

disturb_me said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to translate part of Ulysses (it's so hard!) and I need to know how you'd say "When I makes tea I makes tea".
> 
> Obviously it's grammatically incorrect but there must be some sort of equivalent?!


 
_Cuando presparo el té, presparo el té. _

(Es una hipercorrección que cometen muchas personas cuyo dialecto tiende a aspirar las eses).


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