# mez "table"



## Wolverine9

I suspect Hindi/Urdu borrowed this word from Persian, but did Persian borrow it from Arabic or directly from a European language?


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## fdb

It is borrowed from Portuguese _mesa_, which comes from Latin _mensa_.


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## Wolverine9

So, it was Portuguese -> Persian -> Hindi/Urdu, correct?


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## fdb

Or else directly from Portuguese to Urdu. Portuguese traders were active both in Persia and in India.


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## Wolverine9

OK, thank you.


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## Qureshpor

Platts gives the following etymology.

Pميز _mez_ [Pehl. _mīj_; Zend _myaz_; prob. akin to S. मह 'feast; sacrifice';—cf. _mez-bān_ and _měhmān_], s.f. A table:—_mez-bān_, or _mez-mān_, s.m. Landlord; master of the house, or of a feast; entertainer,


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## fdb

Platts was totally wrong on this one.


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## ancalimon

Also in Turkish we use the same word (masa) for table.


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## Wolverine9

ancalimon said:


> Also in Turkish we use the same word (masa) for table.



Do you pronounce it with an _s_ in Turkish rather than _z_?


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## ancalimon

Wolverine9 said:


> Do you pronounce it with an _s_ in Turkish rather than _z_?



Yes. Letters are always pronounced the same in Turkish. (It's like pieces of lego) Here's the exact pronunciation of the word.

http://translate.google.com/#tr/en/ma sa


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## sotos

Wolverine9 said:


> So, it was Portuguese -> Persian -> Hindi/Urdu, correct?



Unlikely. Most probably through Byzantium. The Latin "mensa" was hellenized as "μήνσιον", still used in the w.  "αντιμήνσιον" meaning "instead of table", i.e. a square cloth that the orthodox priests use when a proper Sacred Altar (Holly _Table_ in Greek) is not available. Islamized Persians, Arabs and Turks retained the word in their languages.


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## sotos

Unless we have a better etymology, here is my pure guess about the origin of the word: Possibly related to the Gr. μέσον and L. _medium_ (mean, center), as the table was the center of rooms, of companies of people, of the daily life. Compare with the dual meaning of εστία as "fire, fireplace" and "center, focus". The same may apply to the Gr. _trapeza_ (table): From the root τρέπ-/τραπ- which means "_turn or direct towards a thing" . http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*t%3Aentry+group%3D52%3Aentry%3Dtre%2Fpw 
_


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## Qureshpor

mez-baan exists as far back as Rodaki. Therefore, it is very unlikely for "mez" to have come into Persian via Portuguese.


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## Wolverine9

Qureshpor said:


> mez-baan exists as far back as Rodaki. Therefore, it is very unlikely for "mez" to have come into Persian via Portuguese.



_mez _"feast" is distinct from _mez _"table."  The former is of Persian origin; the latter is from Portuguese.


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## ancalimon

There's also the word "meze" in Turkish meaning something like "appetizer" (I guess we share the word with Greek)


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## fdb

Wolverine9 said:


> _mez _"feast" is distinct from _mez _"table."  The former is of Persian origin; the latter is from Portuguese.



Correct.


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## fdb

ancalimon said:


> There's also the word "meze" in Turkish meaning something like "appetizer" (I guess we share the word with Greek)



This is from Persian _maza_ (Middle Persian _mizag_) "taste". It was borrowed from Turkish into Modern Greek.


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## Faylasoof

Wolverine9 said:


> I suspect Hindi/Urdu borrowed this word from Persian, but did Persian borrow it from Arabic or directly from a European language?


 We've done this before! An old but still useful thread *here*!


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