# könyveken and affect of low stems on superessive -ön, -en



## iezik

(1) A grammar book states that low noun stems don't have any effect on /oeö/ before -n for superessive case: házon, házakon, házamon, könyvön. (2) But if additional suffix is before -ön, it changes to -en: könyveken, könyvemen, völgyeken, tölgyeken.

Can somebody verify statement (2)? This is my generalization of what I saw on the internet and in the spelling checker. As a rule, I only saw statement (1). That grammar book is excellent for word forms, but it might just need more pages for such details.

Thanks


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## uress

-n: stem end vowel: (á), é, i (í), ó, ő, u, ú, ü, ű
-'n: stem end vowel: a, e, (o), (ö)

-on: vowel of the last syllab: a, á, o, ó, u, ú
-en: vowel of the last syllab: e, é, i, í
-ön: vowel of the last syllab: ö, ő, ü, ű

_It's quite similar for -k, but there is an -ak group in plural, too, and there are irregularyties, too._

Find out: füst, csütörtök.


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## Zsanna

iezik said:


> ...Can somebody verify statement (2)


I have already some problems with statement one (its meaning) and would formulate statement 2 differently but roughly, yes.

It is logical in your examples because the final syllable won't contain an ö (or ü) sound anymore. (It'll be the _e_ linking vowel before the plural). However, I can't tell you if there is any rule (or a list of exceptions at least). I suspect only that the words uress mentions above (füst, csütörtök) would be the regular "guys". Their forms would be: füstökön/füstökhöz or csütörtökökön/csütörtökökhöz*.
I would think so on the basis that the regular ones don't change linking vowels in the plural (they take the "ö", therefore they'd take the -ön or -höz suffix forms after that) and that most other words having "ö"(ő)/"ü"(ű) I can think of would behave similarly. (Vödör, csöbör, csőr, bőr, csűr, szűr, etc.)

It is possible that the entire group of words ending -lgy would be "irregular". I suspect that all that is somehow connected to the nature of the sounds at the end of the word because it is surely not simply the question of a word ending in two consonants.

*suffix corrected


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## iezik

I found a list of only 11 low-level nouns that use /ek/ instead of /ök/ for plural and still using /ön/ for superessive, so this group is very small. Ok, another small special group. Thanks.


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## uress

Low-level? You mean the rounded vowel one syllab words with -ek plural (+ -en)?

11? You mean 21?


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## iezik

uress said:


> You mean the round vowel one syllab words with -ek plural (+ -en)?


I corrected to -ön. Different grammars give different lists, I found one with 11 items.


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## Zsanna

iezik said:


> I found a list of only 11 low-level nouns that use /ek/ instead of /ök/ for plural and still using /ön/ for superessive, so this group is very small. Ok, another small special group. Thanks.


Could you give an example? 
I just can't think of any word ending in ...ek(=linking vowel+ plural)+ön (as part of the -n, -on,-en,-ön suffix)


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## iezik

I'm not sure if I was clear which forms I meant. Anyway, here is a list of 3 words, each with 4 forms.

sg/nom sg/sup. pl/nom. pl/sup
könyv. könyvek könyvön könyveken
völgy. völgyek völgyön völgyeken
föld.. földek. földön. földeken

I meant that -ek of földek uses different vowel then -ön of  földön.

I used dot (.) as filler in the table, otherwise I can't align the columns. I tried with spaces, but several consecutive spaces collapsed into a single space.


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## uress

They are correct and you were clear. What is your question now? 
There is no rule that -k and -n should take the same vowel.


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## Zsanna

Thank you, iezik, I understand now what you meant. (I thought you meant "ek+ön" being used at the same time.)


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## iezik

I asked for better formatting of tables and got an answer. An example with these 12 Hungarian word forms is now at Help/faq, BB codes



sg/nomsg/suppl/nompl/supkönyvkönyvekkönyvönkönyvekenvölgyvölgyekvölgyönvölgyekenföldföldekföldönföldeken

Long live Hungarian. Cheers.


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## Zsanna

Very neat. (But as you gave them above, not really necessary.)
You are welcome.


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