# Usage of Tagalog verbs with ang, ng, sa



## Maginoo

Hello,

I have several Tagalog books including the Hippocrene Tagalog dictionary and the book "Handbook of Tagalog Verbs" by Ramos & Bautista.  But It's hard to find the usage of a given verb form in a sentence with the subject, direct and indirect objects.  Is there a source with examples for each verb, e.g.

Magbigay ka ng pera sa bata.  Give the boy some money.
Ibigay mo ang pera sa bata.     Give the boy the money.
Bigyan mo ng pera ang bata.    Give the boy some money.

This would be a lot more help than grammatical terms like locative focus, benefactive focus, etc.

Thanks,
Maginoo


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## daviddem

This is a good resource for grammar in general, with examples (can't post links yet, sorry): learningtagalog dot com slash grammar

The actual link is listed in the sticky at the top of this section.


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## Maginoo

Thanks, but I wasn't looking for general discussions of grammar, rather, I was hoping for a way to look up examples of verb usage starting from a given verb root.  In other words, for the verb root "bigay", I can look up the derived forms of the verb in the Ramos/Bautista book, but I would like to also see usage examples (such as the ones I quoted above) for these derived forms.

I've ordered the Tagalog dictionary by Leo James English, but if that doesn't help, I'm going to have to build a website myself to do this.  If there are any native speakers out there (or advanced students of Tagalog) who would like to help with this project, I would be willing to pay for your time and effort.


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## Maginoo

Ok, as a follow-up, I did receive the dictionary by Leo James English, and it seems to do a pretty good job of showing common forms of each verb along with usage examples.  My only complaint so far is that a lot of the sentences use the more formal "ay inversion" structure instead of the common predicate-initial style.


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## mataripis

Maginoo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have several Tagalog books including the Hippocrene Tagalog dictionary and the book "Handbook of Tagalog Verbs" by Ramos & Bautista.  But It's hard to find the usage of a given verb form in a sentence with the subject, direct and indirect objects.  Is there a source with examples for each verb, e.g.
> 
> Magbigay ka ng pera sa bata.  Give the boy some money.
> Ibigay mo ang pera sa bata.     Give the boy the money.
> Bigyan mo ng pera ang bata.    Give the boy some money.
> 
> This would be a lot more help than grammatical terms like locative focus, benefactive focus, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> Maginoo


hi maginoo. I am not familiar with the words focus.but for me the translations of your given sentences are. 1.)magbigay ka sa bata ng pera. 2.)Ibigay ang pera sa bata.3.)bigyan ng pera ang bata.


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## daviddem

I am also interested in this dictionary. Is it the English-Tagalog one you got, or the Tagalog-English?


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## Maginoo

I got the Tagalog-English one.  At some point I might get the other, but I usually look up Tagalog words, and I already have the Hippocrene dictionary if I need to go the other way.


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## Maginoo

Mataripis:  Thanks for these corrections.  So you generally leave out the "mo" for object focus imperatives (but not the "ka" for actor focus ones)?

Also, the Schachter/Otanes book says that the word order of "sa bata", "ng pera", etc. is flexible in sentences like these, but apparently certain orders are preferred over others.  Are there rules for which phrases go first?





mataripis said:


> hi maginoo. I am not familiar with the words focus.but for me the translations of your given sentences are. 1.)magbigay ka sa bata ng pera. 2.)Ibigay ang pera sa bata.3.)bigyan ng pera ang bata.


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## mataripis

Maginoo said:


> Mataripis:  Thanks for these corrections.  So you generally leave out the "mo" for object focus imperatives (but not the "ka" for actor focus ones)?
> 
> Also, the Schachter/Otanes book says that the word order of "sa bata", "ng pera", etc. is flexible in sentences like these, but apparently certain orders are preferred over others.  Are there rules for which phrases go first?


Maginoo:the translation I posted is in the form of command.if you are asking yourself,  saan ko ibibigay ang pera- then you decide to the child- the reply in Tagalog- Sa bata ka magbigay ng pera/Sa bata ibigay ang pera/Ang bata ang bigyan mo ng pera. But when you are asking what to give and in your mind say the money or pera ,the Tagalog replies - ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata/pera ang ibigay sa bata./pera ang dapat sa bata ay maibigay.


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## Maginoo

Interesting.  I noticed a few other things here--

Saan ko ibibigay ang pera?  To whom shall I give the money?  (Is this right?)

My dictionaries translate "saan" only as "where" but here it seems it can also mean "to whom".  (It wouldn't really make sense in English to say "Where shall I give the money?")

Also, you've slipped in another form here -- "maibigay" -- what the grammar nerds call the abilitative form of the verb--  Does this give it a meaning of possibly, probably?

Ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata.  Money is probably what I should give the child. (?)

Also, the ay-inversion in the last sentence is new construction to me, I had only seen that used with adjectives before.

Ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata.
Ang pera ang dapat sa bata ay maibigay.


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## DotterKat

Maginoo said:


> Interesting.  I noticed a few other things here--
> 
> Saan ko ibibigay ang pera?  To whom shall I give the money?  (Is this right?)
> 
> My dictionaries translate "saan" only as "where" but here it seems it can also mean "to whom".  (It wouldn't really make sense in English to say "Where shall I give the money?")



It should be *Kanino ko ibibigay ang pera? *(To whom shall I give the money?)



Maginoo said:


> Also, you've slipped in another form here -- "maibigay" -- what the grammar nerds call the abilitative form of the verb--  Does this give it a meaning of possibly, probably?
> 
> Ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata.  Money is probably what I should give the child. (?)
> 
> Also, the ay-inversion in the last sentence is new construction to me, I had only seen that used with adjectives before.
> 
> Ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata.
> Ang pera ang dapat sa bata ay maibigay.



The topic of verbal focus or pivot is almost unavoidable in Tagalog grammar. In the sentence _Ang pera ang dapat maibigay sa bata_, maibigay is indeed the abilitive form or the basic form of the root _bigay_ with respect to aspect (depending on exactly what is being discussed). However, _maibigay _is not the correct verbal form for this sentence. Since the thought you wish to express is that money should be given _to the child,_ the benefactive focus should be used (the child is the beneficiary of the action expressed by the verb bigay). 
Furthermore, since the subject is placed before the predicate, the sentence is already inverted, and requires _ay_ (see explanation below). The correct sentence is:

*Ang pera ay ang dapat ibigay sa bata.* (Let's say the question preceding this is: Ano ang dapat ibigay sa bata, ang laruan or ang pera? --- the questioner referring to a specific toy and to a specific amount of money.)

*The money is what [should/ought to] be given to the child.*

The auxiliary verb _dapat_ (should/ought to) removes the notion of possibility or probability and instead points more towards obligation or duty. To introduce the notion of uncertainty or possibility use adverbs like _siguro_ or _baka_ (colloquial) or _marahil _(formal).

Siguro, pera ang dapat ibigay sa bata.
Baka mas mabuti na pera ang ibigay sa bata.
Marahil ay pera ang mas mabuting ibigay sa bata.

All three sentences above express the same thought, in varying degrees of formality, that perhaps money should be given to the child, that money would be a better gift to the child (as opposed for instance to a toy, meaning that the family as a whole would benefit more from a cash gift rather than a toy).

Finally, the sentence deconstruction is a bit faulty. Recall that a simple Tagalog sentence is normally in the predicate - subject format and that the _ay inversion_ is in the subject - predicate format. Normally, if the subject is a person's name, it is marked by s_i_ and all other nouns are marked by_ ang_. In your sentence:

*Ang pera ay ang dapat ibigay sa bata* >>> _Ang_ marks _pera_ as the noun/subject of this sentence. "... _ay ang dapat ibigay sa bata"_ is the predicate of the sentence as it tells something about the noun/subject  "Ang pera" (What should be done with the money? It should be given to the child). So:

_Ang pera _(subject) _ay ang dapat ibigay sa bata_ (*ay* inversion marker + predicate consisting of auxiliary verb *dapat* + benefactive focus *ibigay* + indirect object *sa bata*).

Therefore, the _non-inverted_ sentence is:

*Dapat ibigay sa bata ang pera* (again refering to the aformenetioned specific amount of money versus a specific toy).


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