# במקום הזה / במקום זה



## סייבר־שד

Which one is the right way to say "in this place"? I learned it should be "במקום הזה" but I could swear I've seen it written "במקום זה" somewhere.


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## slus

Both are correct in different contexts


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## סייבר־שד

slus said:


> Both are correct in different contexts



Would that be a formal/informal distinction? Or what kind of contexts exactly?
Thank you.


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## Ali Smith

סייבר־שד said:


> Which one is the right way to say "in this place"? I learned it should be "במקום הזה" but I could swear I've seen it written "במקום זה" somewhere.


Please note that if you want to say במקום זה you must pronounce the first letter as _be_. By contrast, you would, of course, pronounce the first letter in במקום הזה as _ba_.


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## סייבר־שד

Ali Smith said:


> Please note that if you want to say במקום זה you must pronounce the first letter as _be_. By contrast, you would, of course, pronounce the first letter in במקום הזה as _ba_.



But don't they both mean "in this place", which means they have to be definite? Thus, the "ב" should be pronounced "ba" in both instances.
Or is there something I'm missing here? 🤔

Here's an example of both constructions I mean:

1) "הרוזן גר במבצר הזה."
2) "השמות של כמעט כל השלבים בפרק זה לקוחים מהתנ"ך."

Are they both correct, and if so, what's the difference between keeping the definite article and dropping it?


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## Abaye

סייבר־שד said:


> But don't they both mean "in this place", which means they have to be definite?


In such construct, זה functions as the thing that makes the word definite, so no additional "ה" is needed.
Maybe it's a relict of pre-biblical time when we didn't have a definite article at all, or just an alternative form that evolved somehow.
--
Correction: seems that זה with no definite article was originally (that is, in the Bible) used only along with a question word, eg מה זה, למה זה. So a form like מקום זה is a later development.


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## amikama

סייבר־שד said:


> Would that be a formal/informal distinction?


I think it's more a matter of style.


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## סייבר־שד

amikama said:


> I think it's more a matter of style.



Sorry if I'm sounding really dumb, but: meaning what, exactly?


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## elroy

In my experience, במקום זה is more formal.  In everyday speech I usually hear במקום הזה, and I think I’ve mostly encountered במקום זה in formal contexts. 

There is no difference in meaning.



סייבר־שד said:


> Would that be a formal/informal distinction?





amikama said:


> I think it's more a matter of style.


I would say both.


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## Drink

Also note that במקום *ה*זה is ב + *ה*מקום *ה*זה, while במקום זה is ב + מקום זה.


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