# consideration vs. examination



## Tom Fennell

What is the difference between consideration and examination in a judicial context....

I.e. "The court considered the case..." vs. "The court examined the case...."

(one could also contrast this with reviewing a case or reviewing/inspecting the evidence in the case....)

Thanks!


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## gabrielnd

Well, I am not from the law area, but after a word like "consideration" I would expect that the court has an affirmative answer to the case.

"The court considered and agrees."

But let's wait an opnion from someone from the area.


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## pob14

Well, this is _definitely_ my area.

I'm not really sure when you would use either of those.  A court (that is, a judge) certainly doesn't "examine" a case; he or she "hears" it.

A court would definitely "consider" a case, but _not_ the case before it; the court might "consider the case of _Brown v. Board of Education_ in reaching its decision," meaning that it would consider that prior case as precedent in helping decide the present case.

A court might "take the case _under consideration_," which means it does not announce a ruling at the time of hearing or trial, but takes some time to think about it and announces a ruling at a later date.  For some reason, we do not say the court is "considering the case" during this time; we always say the case is under consideration.

Is there a specific example you're wondering about?


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## Tom Fennell

pob14 said:


> Well, this is _definitely_ my area.
> 
> I'm not really sure when you would use either of those.  A court (that is, a judge) certainly doesn't "examine" a case; he or she "hears" it.
> 
> A court would definitely "consider" a case, but _not_ the case before it; the court might "consider the case of _Brown v. Board of Education_ in reaching its decision," meaning that it would consider that prior case as precedent in helping decide the present case.
> 
> A court might "take the case _under consideration_," which means it does not announce a ruling at the time of hearing or trial, but takes some time to think about it and announces a ruling at a later date.  For some reason, we do not say the court is "considering the case" during this time; we always say the case is under consideration.
> 
> Is there a specific example you're wondering about?




Now we are getting closer......I'm actually trying to get from the Russian рассматривать дело.....into English.  What I am talking about is the active stage of proceedings, when the court is hearing arguments, reading briefs, and examining written and oral evidence....

"hearing" would seem a stretch because I deal mainly in corporate law, and most of the evidence and arguments are presented in briefs......


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## morzh

I just wanted to remind the pros here, that often times us, lay folks, use the phrases that do not necessarily satisfy correct legalese usage, and even if they sound the same like "considering case / examining case" (which presence here due to the use by a native is the best proof it indeed is in use; I also heard "court examining the case" myself and read it in the press; here's one for you:
http://www.infocera.com/Osteoporosis_drug_not_helping_people,_court_examining_the_case_10816.htm), they may mean a different thing depending on whom they are used by, and where.

So first you need to realize which one language, lay/press/legalese, and from what Russian language (same subdivisions - from the press, from a court transcripts,) you are trying to translate it into.


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## Tom Fennell

morzh said:


> I just wanted to remind the pros here, that often times us, lay folks, use the phrases that do not necessarily satisfy correct legalese usage, and even if they sound the same like "considering case / examining case" (which presence here due to the use by a native is the best proof it indeed is in use; I also heard "court examining the case" myself and read it in the press; here's one for you:
> http://www.infocera.com/Osteoporosis_drug_not_helping_people,_court_examining_the_case_10816.htm), they may mean a different thing depending on whom they are used by, and where.
> 
> So first you need to realize which one language, lay/press/legalese, and from what Russian language (same subdivisions - from the press, from a court transcripts,) you are trying to translate it into.



Russian does not have the same problem with a cavernous gulf between formal legal language and everyday language that one has in English.

I guess what I am there looking for is the legal language but from plain language legal English, not from time-encrusted, crafty (in a dual sense) English legalese...


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## morzh

Well, I've just given you one link where "court examining the case" is used in Internet media article.

Here it is again:
http://www.infocera.com/Osteoporosis_drug_not_helping_people,_court_examining_the_case_10816.htm

The headline reads:
"*Osteoporosis drug not helping people, court examining the case*     "

This to me means, that court is looking into the allegations, that the drug hampers the body instead of really helping to strengthen bones.

Now here is the link with "court considering the case".

http://dailydose.righthealth.com/allergy-immunology/supreme-court-considering-vaccine-case/

The headline reads:
*"Supreme Court Considering Vaccine Case*
 This week the U.S . Supreme Court is considering the case of two Pennsylvania parents who want to sue pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. for marketing a vaccine which they allege caused their daughter to have seizures and developmental problems"

This means to me the court considering whether or not to allow the case to proceed, as this would become a landmark case, since so far vaccine mfrs were immune from lawsuits.

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Hope it helps some.


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## Tom Fennell

morzh said:


> Well, I've just given you one link where "court examining the case" is used in Internet media article.
> 
> Here it is again:
> http://www.infocera.com/Osteoporosis_drug_not_helping_people,_court_examining_the_case_10816.htm
> 
> The headline reads:
> "*Osteoporosis drug not helping people, court examining the case*     "
> 
> This to me means, that court is looking into the allegations, that the drug hampers the body instead of really helping to strengthen bones.
> 
> Now here is the link with "court considering the case".
> 
> http://dailydose.righthealth.com/allergy-immunology/supreme-court-considering-vaccine-case/
> 
> The headline reads:
> *"Supreme Court Considering Vaccine Case*
> This week the U.S . Supreme Court is considering the case of two Pennsylvania parents who want to sue pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. for marketing a vaccine which they allege caused their daughter to have seizures and developmental problems"
> 
> This means to me the court considering whether or not to allow the case to proceed, as this would become a landmark case, since so far vaccine mfrs were immune from lawsuits.
> 
> ---------
> 
> 
> Hope it helps some.



Yes, a definite help, thanks morzh (BTW did you know that in Russian your profile name means "walrus" 

I guess I can do more googling with this, but I have seen so many authoritative, precise answers on this site, I was hoping for something definitive....

In any case - thanks again!


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## morzh

Tom Fennell said:


> Yes, a definite help, thanks morzh (BTW did you know that in Russian your profile name means "walrus"



If you look at my native language listed here (or at my avatar picture), this will answer your question


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## Tom Fennell

morzh said:


> If you look at my native language listed here (or at my avatar picture), this will answer your question



Sorry - my bad! Busy day!


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## pob14

morzh said:


> Well, I've just given you one link where "court examining the case" is used in Internet media article.
> 
> Here it is again:
> http://www.infocera.com/Osteoporosis_drug_not_helping_people,_court_examining_the_case_10816.htm
> 
> The headline reads:
> "*Osteoporosis drug not helping people, court examining the case*"


I wouldn't cite that article as an example of good usage; in fact, I find it very poorly written. 

I'm sorry, though; I thought Tom was asking for the technical usage.  In a lay context, I would think "considering the case" would be fine.  "Examining the case" sounds like something an appellate court would do; examine what was done in the case to see if there were errors.  "Examining the evidence", though, sounds OK to me.


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## morzh

pob14 said:


> I wouldn't cite that article as an example of good usage; in fact, I find it very poorly written.
> 
> I'm sorry, though; I thought Tom was asking for the technical usage.  In a lay context, I would think "considering the case" would be fine.  "Examining the case" sounds like something an appellate court would do; examine what was done in the case to see if there were errors.  "Examining the evidence", though, sounds OK to me.



I would agree with "not a good usage" but then, again, we are talking about a lay media language and what's in use. And what's in use may sound horrible to Justice Scalia, but probably is OK for a Joe Schmoe who will be reading an internet media article about a Russian court verdicts. Of course when writing for NY Times, given the kind of language they use (I wonder whom it is for - Brooklynites?  ) one may want to be more conservative with the language use, just to be liked by editors enough to be published


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## William Stein

Tom Fennell said:


> Now we are getting closer......I'm actually trying to get from the Russian рассматривать дело.....into English. What I am talking about is the active stage of proceedings, when the court is hearing arguments, reading briefs, and examining written and oral evidence....


Since your context is obviously in court, I think you could say the "trial proceedings" for the active stage (versus preliminary investigations). There are all kinds of complicated legal terms for the preliminary phase like the "discovery phase" when the parties try to force one another to cough up evidence but I don't think it would apply to every case.


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## morzh

William Stein said:


> Since your context is obviously in court, I think you could say the "trial proceedings" for the active stage (versus preliminary investigations). There are all kinds of complicated legal terms for the preliminary phase like the "discovery phase" when the parties try to force one another to cough up evidence but I don't think it would apply to every case.



This is where watching series with Jack McCoy helps, I guess


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## brodyachaya_amerikanka

I feel compelled to point out that since Russian has a different type of legal system (inquisitorial vs. adversarial), the use of "examination" or "consideration" might be more appropriate than attempting to shoehorn the proceeding into a non-Russian context. A judge in an inquisitorial system will play a much more active role in gathering evidence than, say, a U.S. judge who will rely exclusively on the parties' attorneys (or the state and defense counsel) to bring the evidence. It's a fundamentally different type of procedure and my vote would be for indicating that with the translation.


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## morzh

Shoehorning is never good, I agree.

But whether or not and to what degree the lay language is utilized vs. the proper legalese, will probably depend on whom it is for the translation is intended. For general public reading general media - the lay language is just fine. But as we see even from this discussion, a person with some legal background will show some disdain.

I observed similar difference in attitude when watching the reaction to some historic/military movies. Most people would just go with the plot and disregard the trifles; but those with military background would start dwelling on inaccuracies of the weapons used in shooting of the movies, the wrong pistol worn by an SS or Soviet Army officer, or, like my father who was an armor tank specialist, concentrating on the fact that T34-85 was introduced in 1944 and cannot be shown in action that occurs in 1942, and then extrapolate this attitude to the whole movie.

All depends on the intended audience.


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## William Stein

brodyachaya_amerikanka said:


> I feel compelled to point out that since Russian has a different type of legal system (inquisitorial vs. adversarial), the use of "examination" or "consideration" might be more appropriate than attempting to shoehorn the proceeding into a non-Russian context. A judge in an inquisitorial system will play a much more active role in gathering evidence than, say, a U.S. judge who will rely exclusively on the parties' attorneys (or the state and defense counsel) to bring the evidence. It's a fundamentally different type of procedure and my vote would be for indicating that with the translation.


' 
That's why I give the broad, vague terms "preliminary investigation phase"  and "trial proceedings"  and advised against specific terms like "discovery". If that's shoehorning, those are some floppy shoes! 
In France they have a judge that plays a more active role in gathering evidence (le juge d'instuction), which is translated by Bridge's Council of Europe dictionary as "the investigating judge/examining judge" , so "examination" might be okay, but "consideration"  wouldn't mean much in English (unless you added a big footnote explaining what's its supposed to mean in reference to the Russian system).


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## morzh

No matter what you do and how you say it, it will be filtered through the existing pattern of understanding the words in the brains of Americans (I sure give us credit for having those  ).

It's like, try to explain to a European the idea of an American bread, you now, the squishy one....I lived here for over 20 yeas - I still cannot call it "bread", let alone explain it to someone from France or Russia, or Germany.

When I say "bread" they will picture in their spoiled by German baekereien or French boulangeries minds something altogether different from what one has to toast to be able to hold it in hand. 

Same here, and same it is almost everywhere, where we are talking something that has strong national flavor to it.


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