# Diosdado, Dieudonné, Diodato



## Cenzontle

In English, the compound adjective "God-given" is the product of a somewhat productive process that joins an agent ("God" in this case) with a past, or passive, participle ("given").  Others like it include "hand-written", "coin-operated", "worker-owned", "menu-driven", "government-mandated",...  It seems to work especially well with weather phenomena:  "rain-soaked", "wind-damaged", "sun-dried", "snow-covered", "fog-bound".  
Is this construction available in Germanic languages generally, or is it unique to English? 

The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages.  How did this name come to be used in these languages?


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## AndrasBP

Cenzontle said:


> The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages. How did this name come to be used in these languages?


The Romance forms might all be calques from Greek Θεόδωρος (_Theódoros_) > Theodore. 
Just a guess.


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## sound shift

Cenzontle said:


> In English, the Is this construction available in Germanic languages generally, or is it unique to English?


I don't know about 'generally', but it is available in Dutch and German:
Dutch: _Het is ons Godgegeven recht - It's our God-given right._
German: _Ein gottgegebenes Recht - A God-given right._


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## Sardokan1.0

In Italian there is "Deodato". But it's not used as adjective, I've seen it used as personal name or surname


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## sotos

From the classical greek Διόδοτος (Diodotus).


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## marrish

Sanskrit देवदत्त(स्) _dēvadatta(-s)_ is an adjective with identical meaning – 'god-given'; it's been also used as a name (also f. _dēvadattā_)_._

As a male name, written as above but pronounced ~_deodatt_/~_devdatt_, it's used in Hindi and in at least some other Indic languages.


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## Vukabular

Maybe from Serbian:
adjectives:
*dat* _m._ - *dato* _n._ - *data* _f._ ("given")
*dan* _m._ - *dano* _n._ *dana* _f._ ("given")
noun:* dar* _m._ ("gift")
verbs: *dat*i, *dar*ivati
Derived names: Bog*dan* ("God-given"), Boži*dar* ("gift from God"), *Dar*ko ("gift")


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## apmoy70

AndrasBP said:


> The Romance forms might all be calques from Greek Θεόδωρος (_Theódoros_) > Theodore.
> Just a guess.


I think the Greek equivalent is:
«Θεό*δοτος*» (Theόdotos), «Θεο*δοσία*» (Theodosίa).
This first name comes from the adjective «θεόδοτος, -τη, -το» [θeˈɔðɔtɔs] (masc.), [θeˈɔðɔti] (fem.), [θeˈɔðɔtɔ] (neut.), but the one used in the vernacular is «θεόσταλτος, -τη, -το» [θeˈɔstaltɔs] (masc.), [θeˈɔstalti] (fem.), [θeˈɔstaltɔ] (neut.) --> _god-sent_ (from «στέλνω» [ˈstelnɔ] --> _to send_).
The adjective «θεόδοτος» has also produced the first name for females «Θεοδότη» [θeɔˈðɔti]

Apologies for my late edition


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## fdb

Dieudonné is like Θεόδοτος and like _dēvadatta_- in the sense that they are formed from a participle preceded by the stem of a noun indicating the agent of the participle: “by (a) god given”.

On the other hand Θεόδωρος is formed from two nouns in a genitival compound: “(a) god’s gift”.


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## JoMe

Isn't Baghdad also given by God in Iranian?


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## fdb

JoMe said:


> Isn't Baghdad also given by God in Iranian?



Yes


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## marrish

fdb said:


> Dieudonné is like Θεόδοτος and like _dēvadatta_- in the sense that they are formed from a participle preceded by the stem of a noun indicating the agent of the participle: “by (a) god given”.


On the same pattern, Persian/Urdu has the noun/adj./proper name خداداد_ xudā-dād _خدا بخش _xudā-baxsh_ and Punjabi n./adj./proper name اللہ دتّا _allā-dittā_;


fdb said:


> On the other hand Θεόδωρος is formed from two nouns in a genitival compound: “(a) god’s gift”.


Can خداداد _xudā-dād_ (or Baghdad for that matter) be falling under both of these categories?

Romance languages have been mentioned; in Latin it's Deodatus. I saw it used as a pseudonym in a 17th Century book so I'm not sure whether it is Classic or Vulgar Latin or possibly, a later neologism.


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## aefrizzo

fdb said:


> On the other hand Θεόδωρος is formed from two nouns in a genitival compound: “(a) god’s gift”.





What about *Diodoros *Sikeliotes, (Magna Grecia), historian of 1°century BC ?


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## fdb

aefrizzo said:


> What about *Diodoros *Sikeliotes, (Magna Grecia), historian of 1°century BC ?



"Zeus's gift". Dio- is the oblique stem of Zeus.


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## Vukabular

Serbian:
*div* ("god, colossus, good giant" - _džin_ is a bad giant) >> *div*no ("great, lovely, delightful, adorable") >> *div*iti ("to admire") >> *div*ota ("splendor")...
*duh* ("spirit, soul, ghost")
*dah* ("breath") >> na*dah*nuti ("inspire, inspirit") >> *dis*ati ("to breath")
*duv*ati (to blow")

PIE:
**diw-* (zero-grade) >> **deyw*ós ("god") >> Anatolian: ***_*diu-*_ ("daylight god") >> Lycian: *ziw* >>Lydian: *Div*i >> Luwian:* tiw*at ("a sun god") >> Balto-Slavic: **deiw*as >> Celtic: **deiw*os >> Germanic: **Tīw*az >> Indo-Iranian: **dayw*ás >> Italic: **deiw*os >> Welsh _*duw*_ ("god") >> Persian _دیو_‎ (*div*, “demon”) >> English: *div*inity...

The late Old Latin form _**dẹ̄v*os_ regularly lost its _-v-_ before a rounded vowel >> *deus* >> Ancient Greek _*Ζεύς*_ (Zeús), _*Διεύς*_ (Dieús), _*θεός*_ (theós)...


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## Cenzontle

So, is the construction *productive* in Greek, Sanskrit, Serbian, or Persian (but not the Romance languages)?  
Which languages have translated "God-given" from another source, but do not themselves form compounds in the same way?


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## Rocko!

Cenzontle said:


> So, is the construction *productive* in Greek, Sanskrit, Serbian, or Persian (but not the Romance languages)?
> Which languages have translated "God-given" from another source, but do not themselves form compounds in the same way?


I don't know about other languages but in Spanish the name "Diosdado" comes from the Hebrew word for "Jonathan" (Diosdado es aquel al que Dios entregó como regalo divino; un don que Dios concedió; un don de Dios. El nombre significa que el que nació es un regalo de Dios)
I don´t know what is the Hebrew word for Jonathan.


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## fdb

yōnāṯān means „Yahu has given”. It is a sentence-name (subject + verb) and as such different from those discussed here, which are nominal compounds (noun + noun or participle).


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## Rocko!

fdb said:


> yōnāṯān means „Yahu has given”. It is a sentence-name (subject + verb) and as such different from those discussed here, which are nominal compounds (noun + noun or participle).


The word "dado" is a participle.
Anyway, the name "Diosdado" seems to come from the biblical name Jonathan.
The next picture is a screenshot of an old Bible of the year 1602 by Cipriano de Valera:


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## Vukabular

*dios* (Spanish 'god') << *deus* (Latin 'god, deity') << *deiuos* (Old Latin 'god, deity') << _*deiwos* (P-_ Italic 'god, deity') << _*deywós* (PIE 'god')_ << *dyew* (PIE 'sky, heaven')  << *diw* (zero-grade)  = *div* (Serbian: 'great man', 'a mythological being of human form', 'god', 'diety')

*Θεό* Theó (Greek 'god') << *θεός *theós (Ancient Greek 'god, diety') << *tʰehós* (P-Hellenic 'god, diety') << *dʰéh₁s* (PIE 'god, diety') << *dʰeh₁* (PIE 'to do, put, place')??? = *duh* (Serbian 'spirit, soul, ghost')

Jonathan << Ionathan << YHWH 

Jews never pronounce YHWH but instead read Adonai ("My Lord") 

The Vulgate used _Dominus_ ("The Lord") and most English translations of the Bible write "the Lord" for YHWH 

All surviving Christian-era manuscripts use _*Kyrios*_ (*Κυριος*, "Lord") or very occasionally _Theos _[Θεος, "God"]  

"YHWH" was translated into Greek from 3rd century CE  as _kyrios_ and _theos_.


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## fdb

Rocko! said:


> The next picture is a screenshot of an old Bible of the year 1602 by Cipriano de Valera:
> 
> View attachment 34986


Don't you think the science of linguistics might have made some progress since 1602?


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## Rocko!

fdb said:


> Don't you think the science of linguistics might have made some progress since 1602?


I don't know what are you talking about. Names are just names, with some meaning in them, of course.


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## Cenzontle

What languages, besides English, have a *productive *morphological process
to make a compound adjective out of an agent plus a passive participle, as in "coin-operated", "menu-driven", "godforsaken", etc.?
I infer from the comment by sound shift (#3 above) that this construction is available in two other Germanic languages, 
namely Dutch and German.
If the Romance names "Diosdado" etc. are calques on a Greek form, then is the process productive in Greek, 
or did Greek borrow the form—just for "God-given"—from another language?  
Have I made my question clear?


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## fdb

Rocko! said:


> I don't know what are you talking about.



What I am trying to say is that the Hebrew nāṯān is a verb ("he gave"), not a participle ("given"). Compounds of the type "God + given" work in Indo-European, but not in Semitic.


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## AndrasBP

Cenzontle said:


> What languages, besides English, have a *productive *morphological process
> to make a compound adjective out of an agent plus a passive participle, as in "coin-operated", "menu-driven", "godforsaken", etc.?


In *Hungarian *it's not as productive as in English, but we have lots of adjectives of this type, though most of them sound slightly archaic or literary now:

istenverte - "god-beaten"
ebadta - "dog-given" (= good-for-nothing)
napsütötte - "sun-shone"
egérrágta - "mouse-chewed"
madárlátta - "bird-seen" (= used for leftover bread taken home from field work or a long trip)
szélfútta - "wind-blown"


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## Circunflejo

Cenzontle said:


> The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages.



Spanish _inherited _from Latin some words that may fit here etymologically. For example, manuscrito (from Latin manuscriptus; hand-written) or genuflexo (for Latin genuflexus; knee bend) but the productive language would be Latin; not Spanish (in fact, genu is used just as a root in Spanish; not alone).


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## Rocko!

It must have been a productive morphological process in Spanish because there was already the Spanish name "Theodosio" from the old Latin and Greek *Theodosius*, that means the same as the "modern" Diosdado.

There is a very old Spanish book of 1565 that contains the name *Adeodato*, but this name was not adopted either by Spaniards.
_Historia pontifical y catholica_... (1565), by Gonzalo Illescas:





And there's another book of 1715, _Relacin de la pompa funeral._.. (1715), by Blas Antonio Alvarez, that contains the "A Deo datus" as a nickname for a king but, again, this name was not adopted either by Spaniards.




______ _____________ ______________




So, I think that "Diosdado" is a name adopted by Spaniardas that joined the words "Dios" and "dado", because they were inspired by the biblical translation of _Jonathan _made by Cipriano de Valera: Dios dado → Diosdado.

This word "Diosdado" has no real meaning today.


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