# Help with Latin name for a Flower: Miraculum Folium



## Habensaer

I'm trying to work out a Latin name for a flower, for a story. The flower was named in modern times, in the story (it was also genetically engineered by scientists).

Its name would translate to something like, "miracle-petal," I was thinking. My current idea for it was "Miraculum folium".


I'd be very grateful for any help to make sure the name makes sense and is suitable. Thank you very much for any help you can give. I apologize if my post is unsuitable in any way.


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## wtrmute

I confess ignorance as to how the Romans called a flower's petal.  I know the modern "petal" comes from Greek _πέταλον_.  Regardless, since the flower was named in modern times, bad Latin has a lot of verisimilitude.

At any rate, in English, it's common to juxtapose nouns to create possessive constructions, but in Latin this isn't the case.  So if you want to write "miracle petal" as in "a petal which is a miracle", it's usually best to use an adjective like _mirābĭlis_ or _mirāculōsus_.


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## relativamente

wtrmute said:


> I confess ignorance as to how the Romans called a flower's petal.  I know the modern "petal" comes from Greek _πέταλον_.  Regardless, since the flower was named in modern times, bad Latin has a lot of verisimilitude.
> 
> At any rate, in English, it's common to juxtapose nouns to create possessive constructions, but in Latin this isn't the case.  So if you want to write "miracle petal" as in "a petal which is a miracle", it's usually best to use an adjective like _mirābĭlis_ or _mirāculōsus_.



I agree with this. Only instead of miraculosus you should say miraculosa, as plants and trees nouns are always feminine in Latin


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## Habensaer

This is excellent feedback. Thank you.


I wasn't sure what to use for petal, either. The closest I could find was leaf. If bad Latin is often used in modern naming of species, I'm glad to continue the tradition.

So unless I keep the current version to give a (likely too strong) impression of amateur Latin, I guess, "Miraculosa folium"?

Thank you again for helping me.


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## fdb

Scientific plant names normally consist of two words: one for the genus and another for the species. I suggest you look into a book on botany and pick out an appropriate genus name for your (imaginary) plant, and then add mirabilis.


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## wandle

Excellent suggestion.


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## exgerman

There is in fact a genus Mirabilis, whose flowers have showy petals. (What makes them marvelous is that the flowers open at the same time every afternoon.)

It's perfectly possible to have a botanical name_ Mirabilis miraculosa_.


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## Habensaer

fdb said:


> Scientific plant names normally consist of two words: one for the genus and another for the species. I suggest you look into a book on botany and pick out an appropriate genus name for your (imaginary) plant, and then add mirabilis.





exgerman said:


> There is in fact a genus [snip] whose flowers have showy petals. (What makes them marvelous is that the flowers open at the same time every afternoon.)
> 
> It's perfectly possible to have a botanical name_ Mirabilis miraculosa_.


 Mirabilis miraculosa is a good name, thank you both! I'll definitely use it for the scientific name of the flower.


Sorry to ask, but how passable would Folium miraculum be as a bad Latin PR name? A few people apparently liked that name best (which goes to show bad Latin sells ), so I thought I'd ask. I hope this question isn't inappropriate. Thank you again for helping me.


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## bearded

> Habensaer:
> how passable would Folium miraculum be


'Folium miraculum' really sounds awful to my 'neo-latin' speaker's ear.  I would suggest _Folium miraculosum. _Though unidiomatic ('bad Latin'), it complies with Latin grammar.


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## wandle

There is a definite problem in '_*folium miraculum'*_ which stops it being a possible piece of Latin. The problem is that it consists of two nouns: _*folium*_ 'a leaf' and _*miraculum *_'a wonder' or 'miracle'. Latin never puts two nouns together like that. All established botanical (or other scientific) Latin names consist of a noun followed by one or more adjectives, or by another noun in the genitive case.

English happily uses nouns as adjectives. We can say 'miracle leaf' with the meaning 'miraculous leaf', but Latin cannot put together two nouns in that way. _*bearded man*_ suggests _*folium miraculosum*_, taking *miraculosus* as an adjective formed from the noun _*miraculum*_. That is a regular way to form a Latin adjective: however, Lewis & Short's Latin Dictionary does not recognise it as an existing word.

If instead of 'miracle' you wanted the name to express the idea of clever engineering, you could say _*Mirabilis machinosa*_:  'the skilfully contrived _Mirabilis_'.
If you wanted it to include the name of the scientist responsible, you could add, for example, _*Jonesii*_ on the end.


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## bearded

It is true that _miraculosus_ does not exist in classical Latin as an adjective, anyhow it does exist in late/vulgar Latin (especially ecclesiastic: see Italian _miracoloso _derived therefrom), and if you are indeed looking for a ''bad-Latin name'' including the concept of miracle, I would insist that _Folium miraculosum_ would suit.  Anyone knowing a bit of Latin would be able to understand the meaning as 'miracle-petal'....


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## wandle

Yes, I see now from the OED that *miraculosus *exists in post-classical Latin*.* 
Another consideration, though, is that *miraculosus* is derived from the same word as _*mirabilis*_, that is, the verb _*mirari*_, 'to wonder'.
Hence it seems somewhat tautologous to call a flower in effect 'the wondrous Wonderful'.

There is an alternative adjective _*prodigiosus*_ which is good classical Latin and has a similar meaning, but avoids the repetitious etymology.

Thus you could say, for example (if it was produced by a Dr. Smith), _*Mirabilis prodigiosa Smithii*_.


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## bearded

Actually, what I suggested was 'Folium miraculosum', with just one word from 'mirari'...


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## wandle

My suggestion was made in light of *Habensaer's* stated intention:


Habensaer said:


> Mirabilis miraculosa is a good name, thank you both! I'll definitely use it for the scientific name of the flower.


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## Ben Jamin

Actually English *petal *is *petalum *in Latin (compare Romance languages: petalo (it), pétalo(sp), pétale (fr) and petala (port). The translation will then be: *petalum miraculosum *(Neolatin).


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## Habensaer

Thank you all for giving me such excellent feedback! With this, the story ought to have plausibly good (which can mean terrible) Latin. Thank you again for taking time to help me.


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