# Ukrainian: стурбований



## ThomasK

This is probably something like "I worry". Could it be based on a root like turb/ulence, something like disturbance? 

i am just guessing, but I know that for examply "worry" is based on a root meaning strangling (Dutch "wurgen")...


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## Drakonica

It's from latin "turbare", what is surprise for me, though I always though, it's a slavic word.


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## ThomasK

But of course most people only see /sturb.../ and thus perhaps they cannot see the link...


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## pimlicodude

ThomasK said:


> This is probably something like "I worry". Could it be based on a root like turb/ulence, something like disturbance?
> 
> i am just guessing, but I know that for examply "worry" is based on a root meaning strangling (Dutch "wurgen")...


It's not "I worry". It's "worried/concerned", the past participle.

I worry in Ukrainian is _Я турбуюся._


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## jasio

pimlicodude said:


> It's "worried/concerned", the past participle.[/I]


Isn't it a passive participle? Unlike the English and the romance languages, in the Slavic languages it's not quite the same.


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## pimlicodude

jasio said:


> Isn't it a passive participle? Unlike the English and the romance languages, in the Slavic languages it's not quite the same.


Yes. It is a past participle, but a passive past participle.

As you correctly identify, the active past participle is rare in Ukrainian and is considered a non-productive grammatical form. See here for an explanation: Ukrainian: A Comprehensive Grammar


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## Awwal12

jasio said:


> Isn't it a passive participle? Unlike the English and the romance languages, in the Slavic languages it's not quite the same.


Formally Slavic language differentiate 4 types of adjectival participles (present/future active, past active, present/future passive and past passive), though in most languages the list is more limited. Russian, in particular, is missing future participles (meaning perfective verbs can only form 2 adjectival participles tops), and forming present passive participles from imperfective verbs is unproductive (even if they're present, they're usually freely alternating with present active participles formed from reflexive verbal counterparts, in the passive meaning, e.g. производимый vs. производящийся); with imperfective past passive participles it's only marginally better. In Ukrainian it's even more limited, typically to a single past passive participle - the situation nearly identical to colloquial Russian (the relative abundance of participles in the literary Russian language is preserved because of Church Slavonic influence; present active participles, which end in -щий, are obvious Church Slavonic loans as a class - the East Slavic counterparts would have been ending in -чий, but the only relicts of those are various fossilized adjectives: горячий, сыпучий, плавучий etc.).


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## jasio

pimlicodude said:


> Yes. It is a past participle, but a passive past participle.
> 
> As you correctly identify, the active past participle is rare in Ukrainian and is considered a non-productive grammatical form. See here for an explanation: Ukrainian: A Comprehensive Grammar


Technically, you are right. But actually, I meant something a bit different, and I find calling this form simply a "past participle" pretty misleading.

In English the past participle is used to form a passive voice ("I am/was/will be worried"), as well as a present perfect tense of the active voice ("I have painted") - and in case of regular verbs it's identical to the simple past form ("I painted").

Slavic participles (including Ukrainian), and their use, are different.
You may find it in greater details in @Awwal12 comment above (Ukrainian: стурбований), but in short, of all the uses mentioned above, "стурбований" can be used to form the passive voice only. Besides, differentiating active vs. passive participles ("активні і пасивні дієприкметники", Дієприкметник — Вікіпедія) - and adjectival vs. adverbial - is more fundamental then naming them by the tenses. Also, in some contexts the term "past participle" could be confused with a verb form used to create compound tenses (plusquamperfectum, передминулий час, and, historically, past tense).


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## Awwal12

Well, the main use of participles are plain attributives (a worried man) and nominal predicates (this man is worried), and there's nothing different about the Slavic (adjectival) participles in that regard. On the other hand, using participles in particular syntactical constructions is quite expectedly language-specific.

Technically, early Slavic dialects also used participles to form perfect tenses, but those were special, so-called l-participles, which have ultimately produced analytical past tense forms in Polish and in the East Slavic languages (except Polish has fused the copula with the participle in most forms, while in the East Slavic area the copula has been simply dropped, effectively making the new past tense person-indifferent: Rus. я сделал, ты сделал, он сделал...).


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## pimlicodude

jasio said:


> Technically, you are right. But actually, I meant something a bit different, and I find calling this form simply a "past participle" pretty misleading.
> 
> In English the past participle is used to form a passive voice ("I am/was/will be worried"), as well as a present perfect tense of the active voice ("I have painted") - and in case of regular verbs it's identical to the simple past form ("I painted").
> 
> Slavic participles (including Ukrainian), and their use, are different.
> You may find it in greater details in @Awwal12 comment above (Ukrainian: стурбований), but in short, of all the uses mentioned above, "стурбований" can be used to form the passive voice only. Besides, differentiating active vs. passive participles ("активні і пасивні дієприкметники", Дієприкметник — Вікіпедія) - and adjectival vs. adverbial - is more fundamental then naming them by the tenses. Also, in some contexts the term "past participle" could be confused with a verb form used to create compound tenses (plusquamperfectum, передминулий час, and, historically, past tense).


I told the OP that it was a past participle. As a non-Slavicist, he got the correct information there. This detail is good, but beyond what the OP was looking for.


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