# Sea shore [phonetic transcription]



## foi caly

Hi! I've been trying to solve this Phonetics /si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/  /si:/ /ʃʊə/ to word "Sea shells on the sea shore"  but it doesn't seem right. Can you help me solve this?


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## boozer

foi caly said:


> Hi! I've been trying to solve this Phonetics /si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/  /si:/ /ʃʊə/ to word "Sea shells on the sea shore"  but it doesn't seem right. Can you help me solve this?


si: ʃelz ɒn ðə si: ʃɔː

Quite for sure, your last word is 'sure', not 'shore'. 

Oh, and welcome to the forum.


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## foi caly

boozer said:


> si: ʃelz ɒn ðə si: ʃɔː
> 
> Quite for sure, your last word is 'sure', not 'shore'.
> 
> Oh, and welcome to the forum.



Thank you! I've tried using "sure" but still not right


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## boozer

When I say 'sure' carefully, it comes out as /ʃʊə/. Otherwise it is /ʃɔː/. Both are just fine.

However, only this /ʃɔː/ is 'shore'.


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## se16teddy

What variety of English are you aiming for, foi caly? What city, for example? The pronunciation is very different from place to place. Most Americans (but not everywhere) and some British people (but not everywhere)  will pronounce the “r” in “shore” with some kind of consonant.


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## natkretep

Which accent are you trying to transcribe 'sea shore' in?

_Edit. Snap! Teddy and I are thinking along the same lines._


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## foi caly

Thank you for taking time helping me out. I'm actually taking my TESOL activity from Australia.


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## natkretep

Ah, Australia. In that case, go for boozer's /siː ʃɔː/.

(A lot of Australians will also say /ʃɔː/ for 'sure'.)


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## foi caly

Yes, everything that I search online, they're giving me the "sure" for /ʃʊə/ .


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## boozer

I am surprised to hear that a language test involves the phonetic alphabet. To me it has always been dictionary and advanced teaching stuff... But then, TESOL is one test format that I am not at all familiar with...


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## Riyan

foi caly said:


> /ʃel ʒ/


"/ʒ/" is a different phoneme, not /z/.
Shells -> /ʃelz/ as Boozer said.


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## natkretep

foi caly said:


> Yes, everything that I search online, they're giving me the "sure" for /ʃʊə/ .


Which dictionaries? Macmillan gives both with /ʃɔː/ given first. sure - pronunciation of sure by Macmillan Dictionary

The more traditional pronunciation is /ʃʊə/.


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## foi caly

I search in google using firefox, I just go everywhere. okay I'll try macmillan dictionary


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## Riyan

I searched in a few dictionaries and all of them gave /ʃʊə/ for 'sure' and /ʃɔː/ for 'shore'.

_*EDIT:*_
However, Cambridge dictionary gives /ʃɔː/ for both 'sure' and 'shore'.


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## boozer

riyanswat said:


> _*EDIT:*_
> However, Cambridge dictionary gives /ʃɔː/ for both 'sure' and 'shore'.


Yes - 'shore' is never /ʃʊə/, but 'sure' can be either /ʃʊə/ or /ʃɔː/.


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## tunaafi

se16teddy said:


> Most Americans (but not everywhere) and some British people (but not everywhere)  will pronounce the “r” in “shore” with some kind of consonant.


Slightly off-topic, though perhaps relevant to someone learning phonemic/phonetic transcription on a TESOL course, /r/ ia generally classed as an approximant rather than a consonant.


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## Riyan

boozer said:


> Yes - 'shore' is never /ʃʊə/, but 'sure' can be either /ʃʊə/ or /ʃɔː/.


Thanks Boozer. I get it now.


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## foi caly

Yeah,.. yeah you're right boozer. But I don't know why it's still not correct.


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## tunaafi

foi caly said:


> I don't know why it's still not correct.


You don't know why what is not correct?


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## foi caly

Too bad sir, I really don't know.


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## se16teddy

foi caly said:


> Yeah,.. yeah you're right boozer. But I don't know why *it*'s still not correct.


Boozer is asking what exactly "it" refers to here.


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## boozer

se16teddy said:


> Boozer is asking what exactly "it" refers to here.


It was Tunaafi, but I do join him in asking that


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## Riyan

foi caly said:


> /si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /si:/ /ʃʊə/


Are you asking why "/si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /si:/ /ʃʊə/" is incorrect?


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## Chez

riyanswat: Are you saying that someone marking/commenting on  the TESOL activity has said that your transcription is wrong, which is why you are looking for another way to do it?


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## foi caly

riyanswat said:


> Are you asking why "/si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /si:/ /ʃʊə/" is incorrect?




I'm just wondering why this activity from TESOL has been so hard to transcript when in fact all the answers that you gave me is also what I used in all my attempts in the activity.


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## foi caly

se16teddy said:


> Boozer is asking what exactly "it" refers to here.




I mean the transcription for " Sea shells on the sea (sure)" though sure instead of shore is off topic. I have tried both but still wrong answer.


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## Kaye09

Hi foi caly,

Same here, I've been trying to answer the three questions on phonetics but all answers appeared to be incorrect 😭 

Were you able to move to the next quiz? I also enterd 'sea shells in the sea shore' but it says incorrect


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## boozer

What is the purpose of this exercise? How does it work?


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## Kaye09

boozer said:


> What is the purpose of this exercise? How does it work?



It is actually for tesol exam so we can teach english online. I just find the phonetics exam really difficult 😭


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## Myridon

Kaye09 said:


> I also enterd 'sea shells in the sea shore' but it says incorrect


The third word is "on" not "in".


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## boozer

So they give you some words written in 'phonetics' and you must convert them back into normal English?

If that is the case, this string:

_/si:/ /ʃelʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /si:/ /ʃʊə/_ 

contains errors that I have coloured in red. It can only be written in normal English as

_sea shells on th? sea s__ure_

Which is meaningless gibberish because of the last word.


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## elprofe

So, we still don't know what the exercise is about...

If you want the phonetic transcription of "Sea shells on the sea shore", it is /si: ʃelz ɒn ðə si: ʃɔ:/, just as Boozer said. Maybe you missed the colon: /ʃɔ*:*/
If you want to correct this transcription /si:/ /ʃel ʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /si:/ /ʃʊə/, these are incorrect: /ðʌ/, /ʃʊə/ and should be replaced with /ðə/ and /ʃɔ:/


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## Myridon

_ʌ_ is
Open-mid back unrounded vowel - Wikipedia
Which is sort of an 'uh' sound as in "gut" which is not totally unlike unstressed "the".


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## boozer

Myridon said:


> _ʌ_ is
> Open-mid back unrounded vowel - Wikipedia
> Which is sort of an 'uh' sound as in "gut" which is not totally unlike unstressed "the".


Quite true, but since you used the word 'unstressed' anyway, ʌ is always stressed


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## london calling

riyanswat said:


> However, Cambridge dictionary gives /ʃɔː/ for both 'sure' and 'shore'.


Yes, I pronounce both words that way. I speak Standard Southern British English though. I'm sure the Scots (just one example) differentiate.


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## Riyan

london calling said:


> Yes, I pronounce both words that way. I speak Standard Southern British English though. I'm sure the Scots (just one example) differentiate.


That's almost imperceptible. (depends entirely on the context).
Maybe the error is because of /ʃʊə/ and /ʃɔː/?  

If you've pronounced 'shore' as /ʃʊə/, then 

London Calling pronounces both as /ʃɔː/ (acceptable for both 'shore' and 'sure')



boozer said:


> Yes - 'shore' is never /ʃʊə/, but 'sure' can be either /ʃʊə/ or /ʃɔː/.


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## Myridon

boozer said:


> Quite true, but since you used the word 'unstressed' anyway, ʌ is always stressed


I was pointing out that it was "the-thuh" not "the-thee".  The word "the-thuh" could be stressed in a sentence.


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## boozer

Myridon said:


> I was pointing out that it was "the-thuh" not "the-thee".  The word "the-thuh" could be stressed in a sentence.


I agree that the difference between the schwa and ʌ is rather, well, it is not significant in terms of the actual sound produced, particularly in AE.

However, ʌ is always stressed and schwa is never stressed. When 'the-thuh' receives some sort of stress, it naturally becomes 'the-thee'.


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## Hamburger3120

Hi! I have the same problem... translating this sentence:

*/siː/ /ʃelʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /siː/ /ʃʊə/*

Did somebody find the correct answer? 
All of my attempts were incorrect... I couldn't proceed to the next quiz because of this.    :-(


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## Riyan

Hamburger3120 said:


> */siː/ /ʃelʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /siː/ /ʃʊə/*


It's incorrect.

The correct transcription of _sea shells on the sea shore _in British English would be: /siː ʃelz ɒn ðə siː ʃɔː/

In American English: /si: ʃelz ɑ:n ðə si: ʃɔ:r/


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## london calling

Hamburger3120 said:


> Hi! I have the same problem... translating this sentence:
> 
> */siː/ /ʃelʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /siː/ /ʃʊə/*
> 
> Did somebody find the correct answer?
> All of my attempts were incorrect... I couldn't proceed to the next quiz because of this.    :-(


There is no correct answer as we all pronounce it differently.


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## Loob

I don't think anyone pronounces "shore" as */ʃʊə/,* though, lc.


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## ewie

Hamburger3120 said:


> */siː/ /ʃelʒ/ /ɒn/ /ðʌ/ /siː/ /ʃʊə/*
> 
> Did somebody find the correct answer?


The only correct answer to this is: _Sea shelzh on thuh sea sure._
It's gibberish. Someone ought to contact whoever is peddling this exam and tell them it's gibberish.


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## london calling

ewie said:


> The only correct answer to this is: _Sea shelzh on thuh sea sure._
> It's gibberish. Someone ought to contact whoever is peddling this exam and tell them it's gibberish.


Not everyone pronounces 'sure' in the same way as 'shore,' though. 😊 My friend from Edinburgh says 'shoo-uh' for 'sure' and I'm pretty certain I've heard it pronounced that way in parts of England, too.


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## natkretep

Many people pronounce 'sure' like 'shore'/shaw; others say shoo-uh (among other things); but as far as I know nobody pronounces 'shore' like shoo-uh.


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## ewie

*  /ʃʊə/ *can only be _sure_.


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## london calling

natkretep said:


> ... ut as far as I know nobody pronounces 'shore' like shoo-uh.


My Scots friend certainly does. We always used to tease her about and ask if it was her way of saying cobbler! 🤣


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## natkretep

Then I'm surprised. I lived in Edinburgh for 4 years. It is true that not all Scottish accents are rhotic, and 'working class' Edinburgh accents might have 'uh' where <r> is, but I would have expected a more rounded vowel than oo. But your Scots friend's accent is what it is!


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## Loob

I'm surprised, too.  That's what I'd expect to hear not for "shore" but for "sure" - as in the Scottish pronunciation of "sure" in the WR Dictionary. I suppose it depends where in Scotland your friend is from.


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## london calling

Loob said:


> I'm surprised, too.  That's what I'd expect to hear not for "shore" but for "sure" - as in the Scottish pronunciation of "sure" in the WR Dictionary. I suppose it depends where in Scotland your friend is from.


Middle class Edinburgh. My friend's pronunciation became extremely rhotic only when imitating a working class accent or reciting Robbie Burns (which she did often, as a party piece, much to our delight) . 😊


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## kentix

I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem (I still can't tell from the description what the exact question being asked on the test is) but seashell and seashore are each generally one word.


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## Riyan

ewie said:


> * /ʃʊə/ *can only be _sure_.


Except perhaps _the New Yowk _accent where  'shore' might be pronounced as /*ʃʊə/ *(I'm not entirely sure though).


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## Loob

Riyan said:


> Except perhaps _the New Yowk _accent where  'shore' might be pronounced as /*ʃʊə/ *(I'm not entirely sure though).


Wiki agrees with you, Riyan . From New York accent - Wikipedia:
Back vowel chain shift before /r/: /ɔr/, as in _Tory_, _bore_, or _shore_ merges with a tongue movement upward in the mouth to /ʊər/, as in _tour_, _boor_, or _sure_​


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## dojibear

Hamburger3120 said:


> All of my attempts were incorrect... I couldn't proceed to the next quiz because of this. :-(


"Proceed to the next quiz" implies this is an online practice test. In studying foreign languages online, I have run into this situation several times. The web page only marks ITS answer correct, but ITS answer is either incorrect or is "one of multiple correct answers". The same situation can happen in written tests, but there you can make a mistake and "proceed".

Most website creators are smart enough to provide a way to go on to the next quiz, without answering this question correctly. They do not assume that EVERY user will get EVERY question correct. That is an unreasonable assumption.

As pointed out above, "sea shells" can be "seashells" and "sea shore" can be "seashore". It's worth trying all 4 combinations.


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## Ezrael

Kaye09 said:


> It is actually for tesol exam so we can teach english online. I just find the phonetics exam really difficult 😭


Did you find the answer for this? I'm having a hard time answering this one


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## Lena Leef

Sea shells on the sea shore 

I got it right. Followed one of your suggestions to try experimenting on the spacing LOL.
I thought sea shells and sea shore are spelled without space.


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## boozer

All words are transcribed separately, if you want to render some kind of slow and meticulous pronunciation. 

I am still curious about this exercise, though. In my life, my knowledge of the phonetic alphabet has been tested on many occasions, but those were never general language competence tests. Are you, people, going to be teachers? I mean, those of you who keep finding this exercise?  Because the idea is to be able to pronounce a word before a class of ESL students and then transcribe the word for them so they know how to pronounce it - that's teaching, no less...


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## tanteichan

<Added to this thread about the same transcription. Please scroll up for earlier responses. Nat, moderator>

I'm taking my TESOL with an Australian company and I am having great difficulty in translating the following phonetic sentences:

*< --- > *

si: ʃelʒ ɒn ðʌ si: ʃʊə
Tried:
Sea shells on the sea shore.
Seashells on the seashore.
Sea shells on the seashore.
Seashells on the sea shore.

< Original post split to give each sentence its own thread. Cagey, moderator >


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## Ponyprof

The question is just whether the words are written as compound or single words? What have you been taught in your phonetics class about the rule of spaces between words? I would assume that a space means an individual word?


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## RM1(SS)

Lena Leef said:


> Sea shells on the sea shore


  That's what the OP said was graded as wrong.


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