# Danish: modalverber VIL/LE, SKULLE/SKAL, MÅ



## Matcha

Hej, jeg har en stor problem med at bruge disse modalverber korrekt. Kan nogen måske hjælpe mig med nogle regler eller klare eksempler?

Ligesom: _Jeg skal komme imorgen_. Betyder det _I am going to come_ tomorrow or _I have to/must come_ tomorrow. Og _Jeg vil komme imorgen._  hvad betyder det, især ved sammenligning med den første sætning?

Eller _Jeg måtte komme på mødet_ - Betyder det _I could (was allowed) to_ _come to the meeting_ eller _I had to come_.?

På forhånd tak, M


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## hanne

Matcha said:


> Hej, jeg har et stort problem



Det er lidt svært at svare på dit spørgsmål, for ingen af de eksempler du giver, er noget jeg normalt ville sige. For at udtrykke fremtid vil jeg typisk bruge en grammatisk nutid, og så fremgår det som regel af sammenhængen at det i virkeligheden er ment som fremtid.

Jeg vil/skal komme imorgen - lyder for mig mest som en udlænding der prøver at udtrykke fremtid... 

_I am going to come_ tomorrow - ville jeg sige som "Jeg kommer i morgen". (alternativerne "Jeg vil gerne komme i morgen" (I want to come tomorrow), "Jeg skal nok komme i morgen" ("don't worry, I'll be there"), "Han _skal_ bare komme i morgen" (He _has_ to come tomorrow, wishfully) er andre måder at bruge vil og skal, men har ikke så meget at gøre med det du spørger om.) 

Tilsvarende ville "I was allowed to come to the meeting" typisk være "jeg måtte gerne komme til mødet" og "I had to come to the meeting" "Jeg var nødt til at komme til mødet".

Så konklusionen må vel være at, ja, de verber er tvetydige, og derfor står de sjældent alene, men ledsages ofte af en anden indikation af meningen.


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## mezzoforte

(_Does this differ in any way from Norwegian?_)


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## Matcha

Tak skal du have, hanne! Det har hjulpet, men det overhovedet ikke er et nemt emne


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## basslop

mezzoforte said:


> (_Does this differ in any way from Norwegian?_)



Not much. There are nuances, but I'll leave to the professionals to explain


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## Magb

mezzoforte said:


> (_Does this differ in any way from Norwegian?_)



_Måtte_, which means "may" in Danish, means "must" in Norwegian.

A friend of mine once told me an amusing story about the confusion caused by this difference in meaning. One time he was on vacation in Denmark. A Danish kid came up to him and said something like "Må jeg måske låne din cykel?" ("May I perhaps borrow your bicycle?") To my friend's Norwegian ears this meant "Do I have to borrow your bicycle?", so he bemusedly replied, "Nei, det må du ikke." This was supposed to mean "No, you don't _have_ to," but to the Dane it was of course a rather rude rejection. Only much later did my friend realize what he had actually been asked.


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## Tech12

Magb said:


> _Måtte_, which means "may" in Danish, means "must" in Norwegian.
> 
> A friend of mine once told me an amusing story about the confusion caused by this difference in meaning. One time he was on vacation in Denmark. A Danish kid came up to him and said something like "Må jeg måske låne din cykel?" ("May I perhaps borrow your bicycle?") To my friend's Norwegian ears this meant "Do I have to borrow your bicycle?", so he bemusedly replied, "Nei, det må du ikke." This was supposed to mean "No, you don't _have_ to," but to the Dane it was of course a rather rude rejection. Only much later did my friend realize what he had actually been asked.



Haha! I've heard a similar story (can't remember where) of a Danish exchange student living with a Norwegian host family. The family was going out for a walk and, eager to get to know them, she asked "må jeg være med?". The answer was "nei, selvfølgelig må du ikke det!". 

I like how it's a polite and rude statement at the same time.


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## mezzoforte

Similarly in English, I think it's more a British thing to use _*should*_ to indicate a future contingency, like "_*S**hould I see him tomorrow, I will tell him*_".  In North America, we prefer to use _*if*_. I personally think of this usage of _*should*_ as a _correct_ usage that we (in North America) have forgotten about.

In my Norwegian grammar book (from 1977), it says that *må/kan* can be used with *få* to mean _*may*, _i.e. *får jeg = må jeg få = kan jeg få*.  Perhaps this is a usage that has been forgotten about?  I also read in another grammar book the expressions: *Måtte lyken følge deg!* and *Må du har det bra!

*_P.S. I guess the Danish boy should have said to the Norwegian, "*Må jeg få låne din cykel?*"

P.P.S I LOOOVE how Norwegian uses *få*, like in English we say "*get to*".  It's such a strange construction, and it's funny that we share it.
_


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## Magb

mezzoforte said:


> Similarly, in my Norwegian grammar book (from 1977), it says that *må/kan* can be used with *få* to mean _*may*, _i.e. *får jeg = må jeg få = kan jeg få*.
> 
> Perhaps this is a usage that has been forgotten about?



_Måtte_ can occasionally be used to mean "may" in Norwegian as well, but it's quite old-fashioned. I think your grammar book is correct in saying that _må_ + _få_ is one case where _må_ can still be used to mean "may", but _kan jeg få_ is way, way more commonly used than _må jeg få_.



mezzoforte said:


> I also read in another grammar book the expressions: *Måtte lyken følge deg!* and *Må du har det bra!*



That's a very different matter. What you have there is a remnant of the old subjunctive/optative verbal form that Norwegian used to have. It's basically obsolete in modern Norwegian except in a few frozen expressions. It's true that _måtte_ means "may" there, but Norwegians would only understand it that way because the expression was fossilized during a time when _måtte_ had a different meaning. And again, this is borderline archaic language, and hardly anyone would use it in everyday conversation.



mezzoforte said:


> _P.S. I guess the Danish boy should have said to the Norwegian, "*Må jeg få måske låne din cykel?*"_



That might've helped my friend understand, but presumably the Danish boy did not realize that what he said could cause any confusion for a Norwegian.


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