# Good Morning, how are you?



## missjen

I do not speak any french at all and need to put up a sign that says this, can you help?
Miss Jen


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## pieanne

Bonjour, comment allez-vous?


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## missjen

Thank you so much, that was really simple! I should have been able to figure it out...
Miss Jen


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## Primal

Hi there,
It's likely a bit late at this point, but for future reference, I have a couple of comments.
For "how are you?", we are generally taught in school to say, _comment ça va?_  As well, _Bonjour _actually translates literally to "good day," while "good morning" is generally translated to _bonne matin.
_Put these together and we have, _Bonne matin, comment ça va?
_Later,
Mitchell


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## DearPrudence

Hmm.

1) "matin" is masculine.
2) Then, "bon matin" is wrong. It should be "bonjour".

So, indeed, pieanne's version was good.


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## Primal

DearPrudence,

This is interesting.  I do, in fact see now in our dictionary that it says "good morning" = _bonjour_.  If this is the case, is there no way to differentiate between "good morning" and "good day"?
As well, I do recognize now that _matin _is masculine, so it should not be _bonne, _however, I don't see what is wrong with _bon. _I was under the impression that _bon _is the masculine version of _bonne_, is it not?

Thanks for correcting my mistakes.  I'm here to learn.
Primal


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## orlando09

What are you talking about? No one in France says "Bon matin". And comment allez-vous? is a perfectly good way to say "how are you?",  though "comment ça va"? is OK too, as a more informal alternative.

The first greeting of the day to someone is always "bonjour" - unless it is after about 5pm or so, in which case it's bonsoir.


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## DearPrudence

Primal said:


> I do, in fact see now in our dictionary that it says "good morning" = _bonjour_.  If this is the case, is there no way to differentiate between "good morning" and "good day"?


If you mean the "good day" you say while leaving, then, it would be something like "bonne journée".




Primal said:


> As well, I do recognize now that _matin _is masculine, so it should not be _bonne, _however, I don't see what is wrong with _bon. _I was under the impression that _bon _is the masculine version of _bonne_, is it not?


"bon" is masculine and so is "matin", but together, they just don't work & create an expression that means "good morning".

It is as if you wanted 
"a knock of thread" to mean "a ring" because this is the way we say it in French   (un coup de fil)
(couldn't think of a better example, off the top of my head)


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## Primal

orlando09 said:


> What are you talking about? No one in France says "Bon matin".


OK, man.  Don't flame me.  That's what I had been taught in school.  We're learning together here, and I wanted to try and spread what I knew.  It's a shame that in this case I was wrong, but I'm just trying to help.
Thanks for setting me straight.



DearPrudence said:


> "bon" is masculine and so is "matin", but together, they just don't work & create an expression that means "good morning".)


Very interesting once again.  I had never learned this.  I wonder how many other people are wrongly informed in this way, as I was.  I will have to show this thread to my teacher to see what she thinks.  Thanks a lot.
Primal


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## orlando09

OK, sorry, but I am not sure where you got the idea that: "good morning is generally translated to bonne matin." If your teacher said so, they they can't have spent much time in France. And if you are not very sure of something it is better to say something like "In my opinion bon matin would be the right translation" rather than stating it as a fact.

Actually, I see you are in Canada, so it is possible that people in Canada say bon matin, as I only know French French. If so, then I apologise.

As Dear Prudence says, you can say bonne journée, as you leave someone, in the sense of "have a nice day" (later in the day people say bonne soirée). Otherwise you greet them with bonjour if you've not seen them before that day (unless it's evening). Some people say "rebonjour" if they have already seen you once before (though it's a bit jokey). You can also say "salut", for "hi" if it's someone you know well and have an informal relationship with. It doesn't really make any difference in practice that there is no special morning phrase - after all, in English we make do with "hello" a lot of the time.


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## orlando09

http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?id=2656

Here you go -- the Quebec government say they have noticed recently that some people have started saying "bon matin", based on English "good morning" - and they don't like it very much. So, some people in Canada do say it.


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## Primal

Excellent.  Thanks very much for your research.  We have now explained why I may have heard this, but it's unfortunate that they do not teach us Standard French at school.  However, if there are enough people saying it that the government is complaining about it, it is likely too late to remove it from people's vocabulary, haha.


The complexities and discrepancies of language never cease to amaze.  We should all just go Esperanto, then we would never have this problem.  No, that's a lie.  We probably would, because people are always creative with language.  Plus it would be unbearably boring, until that happened.

Thanks once again for everything,
Primal


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## orlando09

Haha, yes, it would be boring if we all just spoke the same I guess - and these forums would have less point! It is interesting for me to find out about trends in other kinds of French. I understand the Canadians are sometimes more strict about getting rid of anglicisms than the French, though it can be it is just a case of them using different anglicisms from the French - like, I read that whereas a French driver se gare dans un parking, a Canadian se parque dans un stationnement (if I've remembered that correctly!)


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## Nicomon

Hello,

Just adding my 2 cents, as I was asked to. 


orlando09 said:


> Here you go -- the Quebec government say they have noticed recently that some people have started saying "bon matin", based on English "good morning" - and they don't like it very much. So, some people in Canada do say it.


 True. Some people do. I personally might say it sometimes, but in a sort of "tongue in cheek" way.

Then again, on the page you linked to -for instance if you know you'll meet the person again at lunch time - OQLF officials suggest : 
_*Bon avant-midi*! Je t’attends pour le dîner. (et non Bon matin!) ... _while at the same time writing this on another page :


> Les dictionnaires français n’enregistrent pas tous le nom _avant-midi_. Le mot est peu usité en France où il est pourtant attesté depuis le XVIIe s.;
> il est cependant courant au Québec et en Belgique.


 So either way... Franco-French might say we're wrong, and it should be _matinée_. 

In a nutshell, and from formal, to colloquial :
_- Good morning, how are you_ = _Bonjour, comment allez-vous / __Bonjour, comment vas-tu / Salut, (_a Quebecer might say _Allo*) comment ça va._ 
The latter being closer to : "_Hi, how are ya_". 



> *Allo - *Au téléphone, je vous écoute.
> [Québec][Familier]Salut.


 

Note : For the record, although this would be the subject of another thread... parquer (see B 3, right above REM)


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## orlando09

I saw the avant-midi suggestion, yes! Certainly not very French French. However it seems to suggest it as an alternative to bonne journée rather than to bonjour (ie. something you wish someone as you are leaving them, rather than a greeting).


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## D.Ya

d





orlando09 said:


> I saw the avant-midi suggestion, yes! Certainly not very French French. However it seems to suggest it as an alternative to bonne journée rather than to bonjour (ie. something you wish someone as you are leaving them, rather than a greeting).


I am "French French" and i never heard "bon avant-midi''. 

"bonne matinée", we say it when it's very early in the morning. I rather used to hear and to say "bonne fin de matinée" but it's for good bye, not for good morning.


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## Nicomon

orlando09 said:


> I saw the avant-midi suggestion, yes! Certainly not very French French. However it seems to suggest it as an alternative to bonne journée rather than to bonjour (ie. something you wish someone as you are leaving them, rather than a greeting).


 Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. I did write that it's something we say if we know we're meeting the person say... at lunch time. And I just knew someone would come back online and say this isn't Franco-French. 

In other words, we say « _bon avant-midi / bonne fin d'avant midi_ », when other people might say « _bonne (fin de)_ _matinée_ ». And in a situation where you will see the person again before end of day, I find it more appropriate than « _bonne journée_ », which would be "have a good day". 

But as a greeting for "good morning" - if you read my post again - we do say just like everyone else : « _Bonjour _».

Here's a link to TLFI's definition of *avant-midi*. Maintenant, si vous ne trouvez pas logique de dire _avant-midi_, sur le même modèle que _après-midi_... c'est votre privilège.


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## demon001

Vous oubliez: Salut les copains, ce matin!


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## Nicomon

demon001 said:


> Vous oubliez: Salut les copains, ce matin!


  Did you pearhaps mean :  _Salut les copains, ça va bien ce matin?  _


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## orlando09

Nicomon said:


> Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. I did write that it's something we say if we know we're meeting the person say... at lunch time. And I just knew someone would come back online and say this isn't Franco-French.
> 
> In other words, we say « _bon avant-midi / bonne fin d'avant midi_ », when other people might say « _bonne (fin de)_ _matinée_ ». And in a situation where you will see the person again before end of day, I find it more appropriate than « _bonne journée_ », which would be "have a good day".
> 
> But as a greeting for "good morning" - if you read my post again - we do say just like everyone else : « _Bonjour _».
> 
> Here's a link to TLFI's definition of *avant-midi*. Maintenant, si vous ne trouvez pas logique de dire _avant-midi_, sur le même modèle que _après-midi_... c'est votre privilège.



Sorry , I wasn't trying to disagree with you - I just meant that as it's suggested as an alternative to bonne journée, not bonjour, it is a side issue to the original topic of the post; also you yourself said Franco French people would probably disagree with it, and I was agreeing with that. 

I suppose avant-midi is logical enough yes, I don't see that something is "wrong" just because it's not used (now anyway) in French French. I suppose as an English-speaker it also looks odd to me as we don't have the equivalent in English - which would be "good fore-noon"


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## Nicomon

orlando09 said:


> I suppose as an English-speaker it also looks odd to me as we don't have the equivalent in English - which would be "good fore-noon"


 Good point.  And you're right... it is a side issue.  My mistake; won't do it again.


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## Pedro y La Torre

I don't really see what's wrong with _bon matin_, it certainly sounds logical enough to me and it would seem that it's used by quite a lot of people in Quebec - in defiance of the language authorities.

Its only crime, it sounds like, is to have originally come from English.


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## DearPrudence

Pedro, I've passed a few knocks of thread to French people I know, and they don't use "bon matin". Not because it's an "anglicisme", but simply because it doesn't exist in French. It's not because we're trying to get rid of English words like "parking", "shampoo" or "loser", but it's just that we've never said that. I don't know why we should because foreigners said we should 
What if I told you that from now on, you should say "Good appetite!" to people that you see eating because this is what we do and say in French? Or "good continuation".


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## prof d'anglais

Just a couple of asides - In English they'd say "Good afternoon" as a greeting whereas in French "bon/bonne après-midi" is a parting - which leads to my second point, après-midi is feminine or masculine, all my dictionaries tell me it's both, as is après-guerre. I realise the sexing of modern words (post latin) is arbitrary but can't someone make a decision.


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## mathiine

prof d'anglais : I always say _un après-midi_ because I say _un midi_.


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## orlando09

I can't see any sense in après-midi being feminine - but that would be another thread.. 
I would also like to applaud DearPrudence for being a rare person who does not write looser instead of loser..


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## Pedro y La Torre

DearPrudence said:


> Pedro, I've passed a few knocks of thread to French people I know, and they don't use "bon matin". Not because it's an "anglicisme", but simply because it doesn't exist in French. It's not because we're trying to get rid of English words like "parking", "shampoo" or "loser", but it's just that we've never said that. I don't know why we should because foreigners said we should
> What if I told you that from now on, you should say "Good appetite!" to people that you see eating because this is what we do and say in French? Or "good continuation".



True, but I'm not saying anyone _should_ do anything, such thinking runs directly counter to the point I was trying to make.  If something like ''good continuation'' became part of the language (or a certain dialect), then I'd see no problem with it. After all, in English we use the term ''flea market'', a calque from the French ''marché aux puces'', without there being any problem.

If it's already an established part of a certain dialect, as it seems for many in Quebec it is (if not in France), I don't really see the point in (trying to) proscribing it.
Logically, if one says bon après-midi, bonsoir and bonne nuit, then why not bon matin?

Language is at its heart organic, not proscriptive, despite the best efforts of l'Académie française.


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## prof d'anglais

Whether orlando99 can see any sense in it or not, WordReference.com assures us that it can be either. Whilst the use of Englishisms in French can be argued back and forth, I still find it amusing to see such examples, such as the English word "sandwich" pluralised in the French to sandwichs.


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## Jocaste

DearPrudence said:


> Pedro, I've passed a few knocks of thread to French people I know, and they don't use "bon matin". Not because it's an "anglicisme", but simply because it doesn't exist in French. It's not because we're trying to get rid of English words like "parking", "shampoo" or "loser", but it's just that we've never said that. I don't know why we should because foreigners said we should
> What if I told you that from now on, you should say "Good appetite!" to people that you see eating because this is what we do and say in French? Or "good continuation".



What I think Pedro was trying to say is that even though French people do not use "bon matin", it doesn't mean that it is not French as French from France is not the only standard of French. As a matter of fact, it is widely used in Québec, even if it's only as part of their everyday dialect.

This might be a bit off topic but I find it rather sad, not to say annoying, that (French) people tend to forget that they are not the only users of the French language. If "bon matin" is used in Québec, whatever the context, it remains French, maybe not proper French for some people, but it's still part of the language.

Just because French people don't use it, doesn't mean it's wrong


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## Nicomon

Thank you PyLT and Jocaste 

True enough, _bon matin_ is said by many Quebecers. And I say it myself (as I wrote it in post #14), because the expression amuses me, and I find it sort of "warmer" than _bonjour_. But I mostly say it to friends and family members, e.g. : when I wake up, or if my son calls early in the morning. I don't find it "wrong" (don't like the word) while at the same time being aware that it's not "purist right".

I wouldn't say _bon matin_ as a greeting to a stranger, or to my boss. Well... my boss is anglophone, so in a way, I do, when I say "good morning".  

The fact remains that OQLF doesn't recommend _bon matin_ any more than the Académie does.

Since this thread has stretched to page two, I'll post again the link to the BDL article : *Bon matin*


> L’expression _bon matin_ entre donc inutilement en concurrence avec les formulations françaises _bonjour_ et _bon avant-midi_.


 
But then, _avant-midi_ - which is said when leaving - isn't common usage in France either. That's an issue for another thread. 


PS : Bien que les deux soient acceptés, mes avant-midi/après-midi son masculins.
PPS : here's a fun page about lose versus loose.


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## DearPrudence

Sorry for having just talked about French from France.
So one last time (because I find this whole thread pretty ridiculous and would love it to reach page 3), in French from France, people who have no knowledge of English would not even think about saying "bon matin", they're not trying to get rid of it or trying to follow the Académie française they just don't think you could do such a thing and would just find it weird.

OK, now, that's just for France. If you want to make fufun with the language while in France, then, good for you, go ahead and write another "Sky, my husband". Indeed, it's really funny and will enrich the language! je n'ai vraiment pas besoin d'aller bananes ici 

*Recap *for the original question (and future users if they have the courage to read until here):


> *Good Morning, how are you?*
> I do not speak any french at all and need to put up a sign that says this, can you help?
> Miss Jen


*French from France: good morning = bonjour*
Elsewhere: I'm not entitled to answer. See above.


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## Nicomon

DearPrudence said:


> *French from France: good morning = bonjour*


 *And in Quebec French as well.* 

I initially answered to this thread as someone privately asked for my opinion. Sorry for quoting myself (#14 & 17) 


> In a nutshell, and from formal, to colloquial :
> _- Good morning, how are you_ = _Bonjour, comment allez-vous / __Bonjour, comment vas-tu / Salut, (_a Quebecer might say _Allo*) comment ça va._
> The latter being closer to : "_Hi, how are ya_".
> 
> In other words, we say « _bon avant-midi / bonne fin d'avant midi_ », when other people might say « _bonne (fin de)_ _matinée_ ».
> But as a greeting for "good morning" - if you read my post again - we do say just like everyone else : « _Bonjour _».


 Sooo... contrary to « _avant-midi »_ which I've heard all my life, « _bon matin_ » isn't general usage in Quebec. Far from it. 
It did not replace « _bonjour_ ». I personally find it "cute" but as I said... I use it in informal, family/friends situations. 

And you're right, DP, this thread is getting way too long.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Bon matin 

It would seem this thread has led to a degree of misunderstanding.
I never implied that French people use/should use bon matin or that they're trying to proscribe it.

My point was solely in relation to Quebec French, where its use is widespread, and the attempted (advised) suppression of it by the Office québécois de la langue française.

Furthermore, it seems like a logical enough construction to me which is another reason why I can't see the sense in trying to get rid of it. Had it been calqued on Occitan or some other language instead of English, would the authorities have had the same reaction to its usage? Probably not.

For all that, bonjour undoubtedly remains the ''standard'' way of saying ''Good morning'' everywhere, but bon matin, as a dialectal form, is there and should be flagged up. That's how I see it.


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## Jocaste

DearPrudence said:


> Sorry for having just talked about French from France.
> So one last time (because I find this whole thread pretty ridiculous and would love it to reach page 3), in French from France, people who have no knowledge of English would not even think about saying "bon matin", they're not trying to get rid of it or trying to follow the Académie française they just don't think you could do such a thing and would just find it weird.
> 
> OK, now, that's just for France. If you want to make fufun with the language while in France, then, good for you, go ahead and write another "Sky, my husband". Indeed, it's really funny and will enrich the language! je n'ai vraiment pas besoin d'aller bananes ici



There's no need to be condescending as no one ever assumed that French people use "bon matin" nor think of using it. On the contrary, everyone agreed that it was a quebecism.

No need either for "sky, my husband", it's only reductio ad absurdum as no one uses this, in any English-speaking country, whereas "bon matin" is definitely used it Quebec.


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