# Vないです vs V-ません



## adexx

In many ocassions I heard people say V-ないです instead of V-ません. Is this natural and correct? If so, what is the difference in nuance between these 2 forms?

For example, this is a sentence I found in an online dictionary: 
実は彼はそのことを何も*しらないです*。
http://jisho.org/words?jap=実は;dict=edictIs it any different from 何も*しりません*?Can I say both 僕は行かないです。and 僕は行きません。?


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## Ototsan

I think the two constructions are interchangeable. Personally I usually prefer the ません construction.


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## adexx

So, you mean V-ないです is also perfectly fine? Is it equally polite?
And why is it that textbooks only mention V-ません?


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## Wishfull

Hi.
Tara-chan, who is 3-year-old boy in the animation;Sazae-san, tends to use 僕は行かないです-type sentence structure, which seems childish-way-of-speaking.　
Though it is grammatically correct.


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## YangMuye

Wishfull said:


> Hi.
> Tara-chan, who is 3-year-old boy in the animation;Sazae-san, tends to use 僕は行かないです-type sentence structure, which seems childish-way-of-speaking.
> Though it is grammatically correct.



It seams that ないです and i-adjective + desu was not grammatically correct, but finally accepted by all.

I have read some materials, it's said that desu is grammatically equal to で+ありますor ございます. The 連用形 of adjective is -ku, so the correct polite form should be うございます and くありません。

Now adjective + nai + desu is accepted by textbooks, but verb + nai + desu seams not yet.


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## Ototsan

adexx said:


> So, you mean V-ないです is also perfectly fine? Is it equally polite?
> And why is it that textbooks only mention V-ません?



Presumably because text books are not reference grammars  If I were to write a textbook, I would also avoid those forms and constructions regarded by some people as 'not preferable', 'substandard', etc. and present things as if they were simpler than they are in reality. I should say this solution is also for the benefit of pre-advanced-stage learners.


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## adexx

How about in everyday conversation? Do a lot of people use V-ないです?


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## Ototsan

adexx said:


> How about in everyday conversation? Do a lot of people use V-ないです?



Perhaps, though I have no statistics to support this 'feeling'. My intuition says that (1) sounds more colloquial than (2). Though it is very polite, (2) sounds a bit too formal and somewhat bookish.

(1) 北海道は，思ったほど寒くないですね。
(2) 北海道は，思ったほど寒くありませんね。

The same comment may be repeated for (3) vs (4).

(3) 雨がなかなか降らないですね。
(4) 雨がなかなか降りませんね。

I am curious to know what others say.


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## lrosa

adexx said:


> How about in everyday conversation? Do a lot of people use V-ないです?



Like you, I was aware of only the -ません form from reading text books, which almost always neglect to mention ないです. I think this is a pity because if you want to have conversations in Japanese, I find that the ないです form is almost essential. 

For example, if someone asks you: アメリカに行ったことありますか？ or 図書館には日本語の本はありますか？, I think it is much better to say ないです than ありません. I think this has been suggested by some of the native speakers, but to me ありません seems quite cold, formal, distant, etc., and kind of suggests that there is nothing more to say about the topic. You would hear ありません in formal, impersonal situations, and interestingly, you might also hear it in informal conversations　(where neither ます nor ません forms are normally used) when someone is, for example, pretending to be annoyed about being teased:
A:　もしかしてかれのこと好きなの？
B: そんなことありません！
If A and B are of equal status, B's reply could also of course be そんなことないよ!, but the use of ありません adds a kind of nuance that I'm not sure how to explain. 

Maybe it is somewhat akin to using a formal expression in English in a similar situation:
A: So did you kiss her?
B: I did *nothing of the sort*!
(but it's hard to relate this nuance to English).

But in polite, conversational Japanese, I think it is more friendly and more colloquial to use ないです instead of ません, just as it is often much more friendly and colloquial to attach the particle よ at the end of a sentence, rather than ending every sentence with です or ます or ません, which is the tendency of most foreign speakers of Japanese. So for example, if someone asks you conversationally if you know why the shop is not open today, it sounds far more conversational to say わからないですよ than to say わかりません. Again, it would be somewhat like saying "Yeah, I don't know actually..." with animated intonation instead of saying "I do not know." (I'd say that Japanese robots would always use ません forms instead of ないです!)


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## mignons

lrosa said:


> But in polite, conversational Japanese, I think it is more friendly and more colloquial to use ないです instead of ません, just as it is often much more friendly and colloquial to attach the particle よ at the end of a sentence, rather than ending every sentence with です or ます or ません, which is the tendency of most foreign speakers of Japanese. So for example, if someone asks you conversationally if you know why the shop is not open today, it sounds far more conversational to say わからないですよ than to say わかりません. Again, it would be somewhat like saying "Yeah, I don't know actually..." with animated intonation instead of saying "I do not know." (I'd say that Japanese robots would always use ません forms instead of ないです!)



So which one is more formal? Using ないです or ません? 
All this time i think ません is the formal one when speaking or writing in Japanese since it is the only available form in all of my books. I only know the ないです form said in songs or movies. 
Or should i use  ないです form in conversation and always use ません form in writing?


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## lrosa

mignons said:


> Or should i use  ないです form in conversation and always use ません form in writing?



This is what I would do personally, unless maybe it's a more formal conversation. Of course, there are many instances where substituting ません with ないです won't really work (e.g. すみません)

ません is more "formal" than ないです but not necessarily more "polite".


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