# Can one be offended by silly words like nicknames?



## heidita

Yesterday I was shocked to hear that a good friend was obliged to change his nick name as there had been complaints by some forers who were offended by the nick itself, not so by the forer. 

The nick belonged to my friend Wildfried, who had this very silly idea to choose "Pim of the Pimps" which certainly doesn't define him at all. He explains this, too, in the thread "how did you find your nick". 

Nevertheless he was asked by the administration to change his nickname as it was considered by forers _to be offensive_. Or course, I do not doubt the right of the administration do do as they please, but I am highly surprised at the narrow-mindedness of the fellow forers who filed complaints.

Why should the nicknames of some fellow forers like alesbica, mariquita, Pope, Dick Powers, fairy, Christ or satan666as be considered less offensive and not cause the uproar of others? 

In any case, why should *a nick* cause _any kind of complaint_ just downright overpowers me. 

What about you? Can such a silly word as a nickname, not directed at anybody, be considered offensive? Actually, more so, can any word, not directed at anybody in particular be offensive or is it the person who _makes_ the word offensive?


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## Markus

Of course, people get offended at anything that they feel threatens their sense of security/self in some way. People can even get offended at people getting offended.


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## fenixpollo

heidita said:
			
		

> Actually, more so, can any word, not directed at anybody in particular be offensive or is it the person who _makes_ the word offensive?


 You just answered your own question, and told us your opinion.    I agree with you.

I choose to get irritated, occasionally, when the younger generation takes a vulgar word and makes it less vulgar. I'm not offended, necessarily, but to hear kids saying words that I used to get punished for saying (for example: suck, dork, pimp, whore) doesn't seem right. 

As far as your friend, I think that his and some of the other usernames you mentioned show a confrontational attitude.  But I can't imagine letting myself get so worked up (offended) that I would ask them to change their names.    What if my parents had named me Harry Dick or Mike Hunt in real life?  Would someone who was offended ask me to change my real name?


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## Mei

Hi there,

I do agree with you... I think that censor a nickname is excessive because, as you said, it wasn't directed to anybody.

Just my opinion. 

Mei


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## Dr. Quizá

Mei said:
			
		

> I do agree with you... I think that censor a nickname is excessive because, as you said, it wasn't directed to anybody.



I agree too. Furthermore, if it was directed to somebody, that would be it's own user. And "pimp" is in WR's dictionary. Should that entry be deleted as well?


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## natasha2000

I think that those who were offended by someone else's nickname have a serious problem in their heads.
It does not have any sense at all.

This is suposed to be democratic forum, isn't it? Or I am wrong?


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## VenusEnvy

Some people can be very sensitive. The word "pimp", while a valid word that appears in the dictionary, can carry negative and hurtful connotations. Some women may (depending on their past experiences) relate this word to the negativity associated with it (selling women for sex, drugs, cruelty, promiscuity). 

I agree with Fenix that youth of today have made that certain words (whore, pimp, gay, suck) carry a softer meaning. When I was younger (ji ji) I wasn't allowed to say them. So, to some people, these may be considered offensive vulgarities.

Do I like the nick "Pimp of the Pimps"? ....  Well, my opinion about that really doesn't matter. It's his nickname, and he can do whatever he wants.

Above all, someone's nickname is just that: their own. I don't see how someone's nickname is anyone else's business except that person's.



Just my $0.02.


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## fenixpollo

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> This is suposed to be democratic forum, isn't it? Or I am wrong?


 You're wrong, Natasha.  Nobody voted for our administrator or the moderators, so this is *not democracy*.  Everybody else in the forum has equal rights and privileges and treats one another equally, so you could call it *an egalitarian society*; and the moderators were chosen because they deserved the position (not because of their class, status or other criteria), so you could say that WR is *a* *meritocracy*.  You might even be able to make an argument for communism, but that would be another thread.


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## maxiogee

Is not the crux of the matter not the word itself, but the way it was being used?
To me, for anyone to use the "of the Pimps" phrase in a nickname (notice that capital "p"!) implies acceptance/approval of the function & activity of pimps in society.
That function and activity are not things I would like to see 'promoted' in an ordered society where people can feel threatened by such things.

Would you accept "Naz of the Nazis" or "Rap of the Rapists" or any other punning title based on an abusive section of society?


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## natasha2000

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> You're wrong, Natasha. Nobody voted for our administrator or the moderators, so this is *not democracy*. Everybody else in the forum has equal rights and privileges and treats one another equally, so you could call it *an egalitarian society*; and the moderators were chosen because they deserved the position (not because of their class, status or other criteria), so you could say that WR is *a* *meritocracy*. You might even be able to make an argument for communism, but that would be another thread.


 
Yes, you are completely right. So, he who owns is he who makes the rules...


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## natasha2000

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Is not the crux of the matter not the word itself, but the way it was being used?
> To me, for anyone to use the "of the Pimps" phrase in a nickname (notice that capital "p"!) implies acceptance/approval of the function & activity of pimps in society.
> That function and activity are not things I would like to see 'promoted' in an ordered society where people can feel threatened by such things.
> 
> Would you accept "Naz of the Nazis" or "Rap of the Rapists" or any other punning title based on an abusive section of society?


 
But Maxie...
It was supposed tyo be JUST a nickname in this forum, of one user.... We use to look for more meaning in what is lacking of any meaning whatsoever...

Don't you think it's just a little bit exagerated?


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## fenixpollo

Your phrase "just a nickname" implies that any nickname is acceptable in this forum, because it carries no inherent significance.  I think Tony is arguing that NO name lacks significance.


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## geve

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> I agree too. Furthermore, if it was directed to somebody, that would be it's own user. And "pimp" is in WR's dictionary. Should that entry be deleted as well?


There are many rude words in the WRD (and I'm not saying it's a bad thing!), which doesn't imply that I'd feel comfortable replying in a thread "Hello F***ing sh**"  

I don't have a problem with that specific nickname ("pimp" is not a word I'm very familiar with anyway...) but where to draw the line?

When I'm the first to post an answer in the thread, I usually start my post by "Hello, XXX". With some nicknames, I just can't write it. It seems strange to write "Hi pumpkin" or "Hello SexyBoots" to someone I don't know!
_Edit:_ ...which forces me to be ill-mannered, and I don't like it.


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## ElaineG

This thread is a little all over the place, but let me try to make a few points.

First, the WRF rules, which were there before POP joined, state clearly: 



> Nicknames and signatures that we feel are inflammatory, vulgar, promotional, or rude will be removed.


 
So, PoP "assumed the risk" when he chose his nickname that it would not be determined to be "inflammatory, vulgar ... or rude." That was his risk to take, but the rule predated him, and so he can't claim to have been surprised by the rule's enforcement.

Second, whether a rude word exists in the dictionary or not is completely irrelevant, as it should take only a moment to see. This is a linguistic forum dedicated to the teaching and learning of language. Vulgar language is a part of language, and most serious students want to learn and understand it, even if they choose not to use it themselves. It is entirely possible to discuss the meaning and use of rude or slang terms in a serious, educational and adult manner, and that is what people do here. Naming yourself "F.ck the f.ck" or "world's biggest s.it" has no conceivable educational or linguistic function. It's just to entertain yourself. Plainly, the world -- and internet -- are full of places to entertain yourself. This happens to a place with a specific purpose.  WRF's statement of purpose clearly states:



> The Forums promote learning and maintain an atmosphere that is serious, academic and collaborative, with a respectful, helpful and cordial tone.


 
Ask yourself how naming yourself "Pimp of the Pimps," or "Sh/t of the Sh/t", or "Rapist of the Rapists" fits with that statement of purpose.  You can argue that the name doesn't offend you, but it's hard to contend that it is "respectful" or "cordial."

Third, can vulgar language offend? Well, it doesn't offend me, but I live in New York City and am part of a generation that uses it freely. To me, "Pimp of the Pimps" is an incredibly stupid and lame name, but it doesn't _shock_ me. However, if someone came to my mother's house, and said "Hi, I'm Pimp of the Pimps", she would be offended. By the same token, if she logged onto what she thought was a serious language forum and got advice from "Pimp of the Pimps", she would think this was another sort of site and probably not come back. Similarly, if someone went up to my 13 year old goddaughter and said, "Hi, I'm Pimp of the Pimps", I would be concerned (although she might not mind). You have to consider that children, as well as people of my mother's generation and sensibilities, use this forum. 



> So, he who owns is he who makes the rules...


 
Yes, how odd. He who pays for the server and the software, fixes everything whenever it breaks down, and assumes all legal liability makes the rules. What a very very strange system indeed.


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## GenJen54

Speaking as a *MOD: *




			
				Natasha2000 said:
			
		

> Yes, you are completely right. So, he who owns is he who makes the rules... **


Please don't forget that it is the administrator who also pays for the software licensing and new servers so forer@s like you and me can come here and discuss these kinds of things *for free.* He may "own" the site, but he also pays for its existence. As such, he is entitled to having some of these rules.

Speaking of which, here is one of them:


> 23. Nicknames and signatures that we feel are inflammatory, vulgar, promotional, or rude will be removed.


P.S. I'm moving this thread to C&S, where it really belongs. 

____________________________
*Speaking as a forer@*: For the record, the name itself did not bother me all that much. However, that does not mean that I don't support others who were offended by it. 

The word "pimp" might not be offensive to some. To others, it may be highly offensive. In U.S. society, it means someone who "sells" women out for sex. Pimps are not nice people. The women who "work" for pimps are essentially slaves. They must "pay" their pimps a substantial part of their earnings. They are often forced to take drugs. They are often beaten and/or raped by their pimps, who believe it is their right to treat their "employees" in this manner.

It's not a very flattering term, to say the least. My question is, if one really understands the meaning of it, why would they want to name themselves as such in the first place?


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## Alundra

Mei said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> I do agree with you... I think that censor a nickname is excessive because, as you said, it wasn't directed to anybody.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Mei


 
I agree too. 
If I don't like a nickname.... I'll take note to don't ever use it.  

Alundra.


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## Philippa

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> This is suposed to be democratic forum, isn't it? Or I am wrong?


Hello, I just thought I'd add in Mike's own comment on democracy:
I have seen quite a few references to democracy in the forums here. I just want to politely remind everyone that WordReference is a business, not a democracy. Like any good business it listens carefully to suggestions, of course.
Saludos
Philippa


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## natasha2000

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Your phrase "just a nickname" implies that any nickname is acceptable in this forum, because it carries no inherent significance. I think Tony is arguing that NO name lacks significance.


 
I think that nicknames in any forum only tell something more about the very same user who uses it, since it was given to the user by the very same user himself. So, in a way, the only offense the user inquestion can make is only to himself, don't you think?
So, if someone likes to call himself Pumpkin or Shit, let him call himself like this, it only can tell about the preferences of the user in question, nothing more.

By the way, there are some nicknames I fell strange to write, since they do not meen anything, like srjcifrps.... Personally, I prefer Pimp to srufjcsñs.
Sorry if this might to offend someone, but this is my modest opinion on this matter. Fenixpollo, I think I wanted to use the word open minded instead of the word democratic, but, now it's too late. He metido la pata on that one...


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## natasha2000

Philippa said:
			
		

> Hello, I just thought I'd add in Mike's own comment on democracy:
> I have seen quite a few references to democracy in the forums here. I just want to politely remind everyone that WordReference is a business, not a democracy. Like any good business it listens carefully to suggestions, of course.
> Saludos
> Philippa


 
Excuse me, Phillipa, I have just explained I misused this word. 

I wanted to say openminded, not democratic. Really stupid mistake, but then, we are only humans...


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## natasha2000

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Speaking as a *MOD: *
> 
> Please don't forget that it is the administrator who also pays for the software licensing and new servers so forer@s like you and me can come here and discuss these kinds of things *for free.* He may "own" the site, but he also pays for its existence. As such, he is entitled to having some of these rules. So, it comes out thast I did not say anything that is not true, isn't it?
> 
> Speaking of which, here is one of them:P.S. I'm moving this thread to C&S, where it really belongs.
> 
> ____________________________
> *Speaking as a forer@*: For the record, the name itself did not bother me all that much. However, that does not mean that I don't support others who were offended by it.
> 
> The word "pimp" might not be offensive to some. To others, it may be highly offensive. In U.S. society, it means someone who "sells" women out for sex. Pimps are not nice people. The women who "work" for pimps are essentially slaves. They must "pay" their pimps a substantial part of their earnings. They are often forced to take drugs. They are often beaten and/or raped by their pimps, who believe it is their right to treat their "employees" in this manner.
> 
> It's not a very flattering term, to say the least. My question is, if one really understands the meaning of it, why would they want to name themselves as such in the first place? I think it is their problem.


 
Dear Moderator,

I have already explained my stupid mistake in relation with me using the word democracy! I AM SORRY! 
But on the other hand, I REALLY don't see the reason for SUCH a fuss about this. As you have already pointed out, I did not say anything that is not true, did I? The things are like they are, take it if you like it and leave it if you don't. The simple truth of life. I don't see why someone should be ofended with this. Really.


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## fenixpollo

Let me preface my comments by saying that I agree with ElaineG's post above about PotP and the fact that the username was contrary to the rules of the forum. While the posts by Elaine and GenJen might have sounded defensive (sorry, ladies, but they _did_, a bit), they reflect the point of this argument: Who judges the standard of what is vulgar/promotional/inflammatory/rude? The owners of the site. Therefore, if they are offended or if they are acting on behalf of someone who is, then their decision is the one that counts.





			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Naming yourself "F.ck the f.ck" or "world's biggest s.it" has no conceivable educational or linguistic function. It's just to entertain yourself. Plainly, the world -- and internet -- are full of places to entertain yourself. This happens to a place with a specific purpose. WRF's statement of purpose clearly states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Forums promote learning and maintain an atmosphere that is serious, academic and collaborative, with a respectful, helpful and cordial tone.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself how naming yourself "Pimp of the Pimps," or "Sh/t of the Sh/t", or "Rapist of the Rapists" fits with that statement of purpose. You can argue that the name doesn't offend you, but it's hard to contend that it is "respectful" or "cordial."
Click to expand...

 But what about my username, Elaine? It is supposed to be comical/absurd/ironic, not serious, academic, collaborative and respectful. (For the record, uniting the words for the Phoenix bird and a chicken is supposed to be ironic.  _'K_?)  Does comical/ironic have a place here? What about flippant, ridiculous or whimsical? Sarcastic? 

Just playing devil's advocate, here.


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## Philippa

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> Excuse me, Philippa, I have just explained I misused this word. I wanted to say openminded, not democratic. Really stupid mistake, but then, we are only humans...


Hi Natasha, I wouldn't have seen your post, we both posted at almost the same time. I didn't mean to have a go at you about it at all (I'm sorry if you felt I was having a go at you), I just wanted to put in Mike's nice comment about it.
Saludos
Philippa


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## natasha2000

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Let me preface my comments by saying that I agree with ElaineG's post above about PotP and the fact that the username was contrary to the rules of the forum. While the posts by Elaine and GenJen might have sounded defensive (sorry, ladies, but they _did_, a bit), they reflect the point of this argument: Who judges the standard of what is vulgar/promotional/inflammatory/rude? The owners of the site. Therefore, if they are offended or if they are acting on behalf of someone who is, then their decision is the one that counts. *But what about my username,* Elaine? It is supposed to be comical/ironic, not serious, academic, collaborative and respectful. Does comical/ironic have a place here? What about flippant or whimsical? Sarcastic?
> 
> Just playing devil's advocate, here.


 

As a matter of fact, I have a little problem each time when I address to you, since the last letter O can easily be converted in A .... But I did not complain to moderators, nor I think of doing it, anyway.

The thing is that moderators and the owner of the site acted on complaint of some foreros. So, SOME FOREROS are to be blamed.....


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## ElaineG

> But what about my username, Elaine? It is supposed to be comical/absurd/ironic, not serious, academic, collaborative and respectful. (For the record, uniting the words for the Phoenix bird and a chicken is supposed to be ironic. _'K_?) Does comical/ironic have a place here? What about flippant, ridiculous or whimsical? Sarcastic?


 
For the _record_, I always assumed you called yourself that because you come from Phoenix or somewhere near there.  And I never saw anything flippant or ridiculous in it.  Whimsical perhaps.  The intended irony _flew _(couldn't help myself) right over my blonde little head.  Anyway, it's very hard for me to find anything "uncordial" (if such a word exists) in the name Fenixpollo.  It's just not hard to find that in Pimp of Pimps.  Pimp, after all, is a word that's all about aggression towards women.  

The question is not whether an individual nickname _creates_ a cordial and respectful atmosphere (which obviously does include a good sense of humor -- one of the baselines of cordiality, I'd say), but whether it actively detracts from it  -- by offending or putting off other foreros.  I don't think "fenixpollo" or "ElaineG" for that matter creates or detracts from any atmosphere at all. 

The question is: Is somebody in the community hurt by someone else's name?  Once that question has been answered in the affirmative, us defensive folks who moderate this place have to decide -- under Mike's leadership, as in all things -- is the offended party too sensitive or is the offending party too offensive?  I hope I never get a complaint about Fenixpollo, but if I do, I like to think that the moderator team would have no problem deciding that the complainer was off her/his nut.

The balance, for me, gets struck in a different place for "Pimp of Pimps."  As I said, I don't get offended by it, but it's easy for me to understand why others do.  As a woman, I'm certainly not going to say to another woman: "Hey! It's cool that he wants to celebrate Pimp culture and the violent degradation of women as commodity objects.  Groovy!"  (It's irrelevant if he has another meaning for his own name -- for obvious reasons, the plain meaning rule has to be applied here.).


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## fenixpollo

As always, your argument is succinct and convincing, Elaine.  


			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> I hope I never get a complaint about Fenixpollo, but if I do, I like to think that the moderator team would have no problem deciding that the complainer was off her/his nut.


 Are you hearing this, natasha?


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## natasha2000

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> As always, your argument is succinct and convincing, Elaine.  Are you hearing this, natasha?


 
Obviously, I am the one with a dirty mind ....


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## fenixpollo

No, you're just the first to complain publicly.


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## Dr. Quizá

I won't discuss the existence of rule 23 since it was written by WR's owner and I wouldn't accept discussing on how I rule my own house, but I still find it pretty absurd. OK, you may find "Pimp masta'" disgusting (I don't) but you're free to avoid interaction with people you don't like if you consider a nick can be more than a joke, aren't you?

My nick is no swearword nor is "controversial", but it's a parody of Dr. No (oh, well, Dr. No was a world dictator wannabe... maybe a reflex of Hitler or Stalin to face James Bond...) so it isn't "serious" nor "academic".

Maybe a surname is the most suitable nick you can use in an academic and serious enviroment, isn't it? Then I wonder if the nick *"Moor Killer"* would be not offensive and suitable here. Because actually "Matamoros", the Spanish for "moor killer", is a genuinely Spanish surname, you know...


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## cuchuflete

Let's see, we have some people who think the whole matter is ridiculous, some who believe, according to what they have written, that no name should be deemed offensive, and some who are understanding of the decision.

We can now return to enjoying the language and culture discussions, or put our collective energy into declaiming on this topic.  Most of the rules have been questioned at one time or another, and generally the complaints or pointed questions come from a person to whom the rule has been applied, or a friend of that person.  The great majority of foreros seem to accept that there is a need for some sort of rule-based structure, and that the application of the rules, by humans, will therefore have a subjective element.  Where human subjectivity comes into play, total consensus is probably impossible.  

As an unimportant (?) side note, most of those who found the name offensive were males, who took the member name to be insulting to their female colleagues, and stated that to the staff.  Call it overreaction or chivalry, as you see fit.


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## fenixpollo

I call it a _chivalrous overreaction_.  Or _sympathetic feminism_ (like sympathetic labor pains).  I could think up another phrase starting with "p", but I wouldn't want to offend anyone.


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## natasha2000

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> As an unimportant (?) side note, most of those who found the name offensive were males, who took the member name to be insulting to their female colleagues, and stated that to the staff. Call it overreaction or chivalry, as you see fit.


 
I would call it trying to be politically KERREKT, as you usually say.
If the complaints came from women, I would understand, but this...

Anyway, you're right. Too much fuss about not so important thing.


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## Just_Wil

I wasn't going to reply or post anything, but now that I found the thread, it seemed quite interesting to me, because my nick is in the "eye of the hurricane". I guess some people read the thread "como escogieron sus nicks" or something like that, well, there I gave a little explanation about Potp, anyway, thanks to Heidita, my special friend, and to Natasha, who is a very open minded woman, and to all to open minded people in this forum.
"Pimp of the pimps" is a very silly nickname, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, anyway, I took it from the line of a song I wrote long ago, and it had this twisted sense of humor, so, I chose it to be my nickname, and I'm still think it sounds so stupid, so stupid, that in the end, I thought no one would be offended by it, but I was wrong.
But I'm not stubborn, I'd change it if I could, but I didn't find the option in the control panel. I also admit, there are rules to follow and I didn't read them, but this nick is so silly, come on.
Anyway, I'll register again, my threads weren't ever offensive, so, I don't see any problem with that.
Thanks again, thumbs up.


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## heidita

I have read all your posts and I 'm highly surprised at the fact that it should ave been males who complained about the_ offensive action taken against fellow female forers._

Now that's reall something! Why should anybody think that the females on this forum used to fighting our own battles as we have demostrated often enough *need any  men at all* to defend us and help us out to protect us from this very ordinary and wicked male (as you can see in his own post!)!! I am surprised and rather shocked at Elaines and Gen's posts who defend the correctness of looking at a nickname not as such but finding a depth and meaning to it which it realy doesn't have.

I am surprised and saddened and rather disgusted that any woman should be pleased at the fact that a correcting action has been taken *suggested by other men to please us women.*

I can assure you I can do my own complaining and DO NOT NEED ANY MAN TO SPEAK FOR ME.


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## ElaineG

> I am surprised and rather shocked at Elaines and Gen's posts who defend the correctness of looking at a nickname not as such but finding a depth and meaning to it which it realy doesn't have.


 
Maybe it's because you're not a native speaker, but it's not a matter of "depth and meaning."  Quite the opposite.  POTP has his own depth and meaning for his name, but no one knows it except him, or those who happened to read his post explaining it.

What foreros were offended by is _the plain meaning of his name _which is indisputably vulgar and provocative in English.   You may not be offended by vulgar provocative names, but you can't argue that it takes "depth" to see why POTP is vulgar and _potentially_ offensive.

 I don't really care if they were men or women who were upset.  I think a man is allowed to be grossed out by the bad behavior of other men, which is what a "pimp" is - a disgrace to men.

I think if a white person wanted to have the nickname KuKluxKlanRulz, I could be offended by it.  I wouldn't need to wait for a Black person to complain.  If I wanted to call myself AdolfEichmann, you would have standing to complain, Heidita, you wouldn't have to wait for a Jew or gypsy to do so.


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## heidita

I also think a man is allowed to be grossed out by the behaviour of fellow men, *but not in my defense*. I can defend myself if I am offended and this was the reason, as cuchu explained for their complaints. They didn't think it was offensive _to them_ but that* it might be offensive to their female colleagues*. 

So now it is my turn, obviously not yours, to be offended as* I will not* have any man think for me or believe that he may take* my* decisions.

And Cuchuflete, it is not fit to be called chivalry if a man seems it fit to think for his female colleagues. In this country it is called machismo.


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## heidita

Elaine, I am not a native speaker, but I am more so surprised that you should find _pimp_ so understandably offensive (for others), as millions of Americans obviously do not, as there is a TV programme with precisely this name:  *Pimp my ride.*

I wonder why this word was chosen if it is so offensive for everybody.


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## Kelly B

heidita said:
			
		

> ...*Pimp my ride.*
> 
> I wonder why this word was chosen if it is so offensive for everybody.


 TV producers are aware that a provocative title will attract a certain viewership. I rather hope that their target audience does not significantly overlap the membership of WR.

We've discussed in Culture the fact that swear words do not have the same shock value for non-native speakers that they have for native speakers. I hope, therefore, that you'll take our word for it - some native English speakers find it offensive. I cannot simply ignore posts by people whose nicks I find offensive. The words draw the eyes and raise the eyebrows.


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## lsp

Kelly B said:
			
		

> TV producers are aware that a provocative title will attract a certain viewership. I rather hope that their target audience does not significantly overlap the membership of WR.


 Those words drew _my_ eyes and raised _my_ eyebrows.


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## cuchuflete

Drawing a conclusion in absence of evidence may have a name in a formal logic course, or at law.  For  an ordinary person like me, the word silly is quite adequate.

Heidita, you didn't read my comment carefully.  I didn't say that only men found the name repulsive.  Further, if you insist on calling a male action taken with consideration of both male and female sensitivities machismo, that's your business.  I call it courtesy.  I suppose we can attribute that to cultural differences, or a different understanding of the facts at hand.

I personally have no objection to a woman defending my interests.  I find such actions thoughtful and generous.  Whether they are politically kerrect is of no importance; they are acts of decency, unforced by anything more ideological than human consideration. 

I never said that any man took a decision for you, or on your behalf.  It's quite apparent that you are well equiped to defend yourself...even against acts of thoughtfulness and courtesy. 


A close reading of text might have precluded the need for this exchange of deep mutual respect, but I wouldn't dare presume to think that you need any help in that regard. 

This thread, which originally struck me as part of a script for Cantinflas, has now acquired overtones of Cortázar and Buñuel.  I'm delighted to see it veer off topic.






			
				heidita said:
			
		

> I also think a man is allowed to be grossed out by the behaviour of fellow men, *but not in my defense*. I can defend myself if I am offended and this was the reason, as cuchu explained for their complaints. They didn't think it was offensive _to them_ but that* it might be offensive to their female colleagues*.
> 
> So now it is my turn, obviously not yours, to be offended as* I will not* have any man think for me or believe that he may take* my* decisions.
> 
> And Cuchuflete, it is not fit to be called chivalry if a man seems it fit to think for his female colleagues. In this country it is called machismo.


----------



## Alice_in_Wonderland

Kelly B said:
			
		

> TV producers are aware that a provocative title will attract a certain viewership. I rather hope that their target audience does not significantly overlap the membership of WR.


 
What kind of "viewership" are you referring to, exactly? I suppose you're talking about teenagers and young adults in their 20's. What a horrible, horrible bunch! Anathema! 

---------​ 
Besides, my view is that words acquire / are given new meanings all the time. 

IMHO the noun "pimp" has entered common usage to designate a _tacky, over-the-top nouveau riche with a shady and perhaps violent past_. A bit like a "rich mobster."

Not that being a "rich mobster" is something that should be encouraged, but the word per se in not particularly offensive. A bit disquieting, confrontational and rude, perhaps, but I wouldn't call it offensive (even when translated into Danish -- just a note to the "nativists" here  ). And pimp is simply a faddish synonym of mobster.

Also the verb "to pimp" has acquired a new meaning, completely unrelated to whoremongers and prostitution, that is "to improve, to renovate, to make attractive or fancier, to refurbish", often in an expensive and extravagant way (as popularized on the American TV series _Pimp My Ride_, sent on MTV). But it's not the verb we're talking about.

We've all observed how formerly vulgar words can acquire more acceptable meanings and how previously harmless expressions can suddenly become so vulgar that it can even be embarrassing to utter them at all.  

Märta  

PS: What if someone found a hypothetical nikcname like "blowing_in_the_wind" offensive? A famous song or an explicit outdoor sexual act? Acceptable or not?


----------



## cuchuflete

Hi Märta,

" PS: What if something found a hypothetical nikcname like "blowing_in_the_wind" offensive?"

They would be asked, courteously, to explain precisely why they found the expression offensive.  In all likelihood, there would be a brief exchange of PMs, resulting in calm discussion, and no further action in regard to the name.


----------



## Alice_in_Wonderland

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Hi Märta,
> 
> " PS: What if something found a hypothetical nikcname like "blowing_in_the_wind" offensive?"
> 
> They would be asked, courteously, to explain precisely why they found the expression offensive. In all likelihood, there would be a brief exchange of PMs, resulting in calm discussion, and no further action in regard to the name.


 
Thanks. I really like the way you moderate, by the way.   

I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that "to blow" has a vulgar meaning and several non-vulgar meanings, just like "pimp." Choosing to overlook the fact that "pimp" has many meanings besides "whoremonger" is a bit out of tune with reality, IMHO.

Just a thought, though.


----------



## Joelline

Potp,

Why would you register again when your nick now has more significance than ever.  Besides, if you re-register, how will we know it's you?

If you choose to re-register, do so, of course, but I hope you'll use your new nick, followed by *a.k.a. potp*


----------



## ElaineG

It's funny how the Europeans think that pimp has been all scrubbed up and turned into a new word. The "new" word and the "old" word are not _completely unrelated_ by any means. That shows an unawareness of the culture that gave birth to the newer meanings and how those words came to be.

In fact, if you go to Urbandictionary, as good an online source for contemporary youth usage as you are going to find, you have to scroll down to the fourth meaning before you get the "new" style 
pimp. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pimp The old style pimp is alive and well, both economically and linguistically.

Don't forget that while MTV shows "Pimp My Ride", HBO shows "Pimps Up, Hos Down," a series of semi-documentaries about the old-fashioned kind of pimps and hos -- the kind that turn tricks, get beaten, etc. etc. etc. That kind is still out there.

And also don't forget that when a segment of hip-hop culture decided to use and then popularize the word pimp, it did so in _explicit reverence and reference_ to the old-style pimp. They thought it was _cool to dress and act like pimps -- _legendary neighborhood figures in some urban communities.Pimping your ride means tricking it out in the fancy overblown style of a pimp. They are not remaking the word, so much as aping it. 

The same cultural genre that gave us "pimp" also routinely calls women "bitches" and "hos", again reveling in and celebrating a particular gender archetype and power dynamic. Are you Europeans going to tell me now that "bitch" and "ho" have lost their power to offend?

I would caution a non-native speaker about being too tone-deaf to these nuances. I've had young Italians who listen to hip-hop and watch MTV come on the IE forum and use the n. word, not knowing its resonance and offensiveness and _off-limits nature to anyone not part of the subculture_, just knowing they heard it in a song.

I'm not saying that "pimp" is as bad as the n. word, but there are layers of overtones that you might need to be a native speaker to hear. Any new meaning of pimp simultaneously embraces, parodies and pays tribute to the old meaning of pimp. And that's not all fun and games.

Here's a quote from one of the multitude of impassioned Urbandictionary entries that kind of sums it up:



> _"I be pimpin'!"
> 
> What is that supposed to mean? Pimps are evil; pimping is at the expense of women. A pimp is far from a heroic or glorious person._


----------



## elroy

Alice_in_Wonderland said:
			
		

> I suppose you're talking about teenagers and young adults in their 20's. What a horrible, horrible bunch! Anathema!


I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt and optimistically believe that you subscribe to the existence of exceptions - and will therefore take no offense at your comment. 

Back on topic - this word belongs to a certain category of words that are to be used (if at all) with caution.  The negative/offensive/risqué/inappropriate connotations of the word have by no means died out, so I would advise all non-native speakers to make sure they fully understand the impact that this word can have before using it.


----------



## cuchuflete

Grazie Alice,

We are wandering a bit off-topic, and into linguistic arenas, which is a nice respite from some of the earlier wars between heartfelt indignation and cool logic.

Yes, many words have lots of different 'loadings', depending on context, tone of voice when spoken, and the demographic characteristics of the writer or speaker.  Blow and blowing may be used to refer to oral sex, but that is not the first thing that occurs to a native speaker unless the context clearly indicates that meaning.  Pimp as a verb has quite a few meanings, with the newer ones less offensive than the older.
However, pimp, as a noun, is still generally just what you called it: a whoremonger, a seller of the use of other peoples' bodies.  That pimp, as a noun, may have other meanings than its most common one, is a fact that bears little on the most common perception of the word.  

I take your point, that offense may be in the eyes of the beholder, rather than in the mind of the writer.  Yet there are some combinations of words which are apt to be perceived, easily and frequently, as vulgar.  Others, such as blowing in the wind, require an assiduous effort on the part of a reader in search of something offensive.  

Ultimately, it's a judgment call as to whether names are probably going to cause offense, and when we receive complaints that draw attention to a name, we then apply our
collective judgment as a moderator team.  Might we come to
a flawed conclusion?  Of course.  Do we make a sincere and reasoned decision?  Yes.  Is it going to be perfect?  Not likely, in the eyes of some people.  

With over 54.000 registered members, any decision by moderators is bound to perplex, bother, annoy and even offend some members of the community.  That cannot be avoided.  Sometimes we have to simply agree to disagree.


Un saludo,
Cuchu







			
				Alice_in_Wonderland said:
			
		

> Thanks. I really like the way you moderate, by the way.
> 
> I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that "to blow" has a vulgar meaning and several non-vulgar meanings, just like "pimp." Choosing to overlook the fact that "pimp" has many meanings besides "whoremonger" is a bit out of tune with reality, IMHO.
> 
> Just a thought, though.


----------



## Alice_in_Wonderland

I see. From all your interesting replies (thank you, by the way), I gather that there is a subtle difference between for instance "Pimp my ride" and "Pimp of the pimps". 

Maybe the show can get away with its name because it clearly has very little, if anything, to do with prostitution, rap and so forth, while a nickname like the one above conveys the impression (founded or not, it doesn't matter) that the user in question actually idolizes pimps and wishes to emulate them, which could indeed be perceived as degrading by both women and men.

I never intended to question the decision of the moderators, however. I was just interested in the linguistic debate about the word "pimp" and not in forum politics. Besides, changing a nickname to avoid offending or hurting someone is not the end of the world!

PS: Elroy, there are no rules without exception!


----------



## Alice_in_Wonderland

One last curiosity: Does the word "pimp", when used in its more recent meanings, have the same emotional and moral impact on native speakers other than Americans? Elaine's remarks about "Europeans" got me thinking... 

Märta


----------



## natasha2000

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Maybe it's because you're not a native speaker,


 
Oh, please......

Pimp is a pimp in all languages, and the person who is called pimp or chulo o proxeneta or whatever language is, is the same: a man who sells women. So, you want to say that I do not preceive in the same way the word COW or VACA or KRAVA? These are only different combinations of letters to name the same thing.

Personally, I find this insulting... Many non-native speakers from this forum know English enough to be aware of the meaning of the word pimp and what it means. But the problem is NOT in understanding of the meaning, but in the perception of that word depending on the place and time and person who is using it.

And yes, I agree completely with Heidita:
I don't need no man to defend my feelings nor rights. I have been doing well without it so far, and I don't think I will need it now nor anytime.

This is not chivalry, this is machismo, as Heidita said.


----------



## lizzeymac

Alice_in_Wonderland said:
			
		

> I see. From all your interesting replies (thank you, by the way), I gather that there is a subtle difference between for instance "Pimp my ride" and "Pimp of the pimps".
> 
> Maybe the show can get away with its name because it clearly has very little, if anything, to do with prostitution, rap and so forth, while a nickname like the one above conveys the impression (founded or not, it doesn't matter) that the user in question actually idolizes pimps and wishes to emulate them, which could indeed be perceived as degrading by both women and men.
> [CLIP[/COLOR]



Hi  - 
There is another fact about "Pimp my Ride" that might give you more context.  It is shown only on MTV, a subscription cable channel that people elect to have in their homes.  That show could never be broadcast on regular TV - the name is much too offensive & the language is too rough to be acceptable.  There are many, many TV programs on cable television that could never be shown on broadcast TV, not because they are for teenagers or they are "bad" but because they are vulgar or violent or too sexual.  Do not think that MTV, HBO, etc, are the norm for all Americans.  These are interesting shows & artistic shows & brilliant shows & funny shows but for one reason or another they are too offensive to show on "regular" broadcast TV, and broadcast TV is a more accurate indicator of what is acceptable to the average American.  

I live in ultra liberal New York City, I grew up here in the wild 1960s/70s, I was raised by a single parent, I work in the arts, and I am rabidly anti-censorship but "pimp" is not a word to use casually. 
If you use "pimp" you must understand people will draw inferences based on that word. 
A pimp is a pimp is a pimp - not a fluffy bunny.

The verb to pimp is not very very removed from a "pimp" - it is the direct result of verbing the noun "pimp".  
The roots of it, as in Pimp my Ride, it is that in poor crime-ridden neighborhoods the fanciest car with the most accessories was usually driven by a pimp or a drug dealer - so it was a pimped out car.  How a pimp earns the money to pay for his car has already been discussed.  The notion that "pimp" is a different or less offensive concept in other cultures is not convincing but it is slightly disturbing.

It seems this affects native English speakers more than non-native English speakers but it doesn't seem to be a matter of fluency in English but of cultural associations.


----------



## heidita

I couldn't agree more with natasha for obvious reasons.

Cuchuflete, I DID read your post carefully and DID see, that you mentioned that _most _of the people who complained about the nickname were _men_, not all though. But if you saw it an important fact to mention, I conclude that there was a considerable higher amount of men, more then women, who complained. So I cannot agree with you at all. If you are pleased if a woman takes a stand for you I am not at all pleased if a man does my thinking for me. If more women than men had been offended you would have mentioned it , too. So those men who complained obviously stated that not _they_ were offended but that _WE WOMEN_ might be so, which I personally find insulting. If I am offended or pleased, I can make my own complaints and I am not pleased at anybody talking for me, and less to the moderators. If they had anything to say, the first thing they should have done, the least you can expect, is to talk to the person him/herself. My friend didn't get any of those PMs. Nobody was thoughtful enough to write to him personally. I myself have had some unfriendly PMs to some of my posts, and of course, they were directed first at me, not directly to the moderators (if at all). 

You know, cuchuflete, that we might think differently but that I highly appreciate moderation and rules and that I worship this forum. I was the first to say that I do not find the decision itself questionable, but I do find the cause to say the least "incredible". 

Now, the facts are: 

there have been several men looking with care after their poor helpless fellow female forers who cannot defend their own interest and some women, too, who found a NICKNAME offensive. 
We must not forget, that we are still  talking about a _nickname._ *Not about a pimp in real life.. *I did mention some weird nicks in my thread. What about satan666? He identifies with satanism? I mean, come on.....

I can understand, that many people think a nick to be stupid, but offensive, that's above me. I insist, we are still talking about a nickname, and in a thread about nicks, my friend did explain, that he took this name from a song, and that he DIDN'T identify with any kind of pims or the like.

And no, if anybody chose to be rapist123, or faghater or something stupid like this, I would not be offended and would expect my gay friends not to be either.


----------



## Residente Calle 13

lizzeymac said:
			
		

> Hi  -
> There is another fact about "Pimp my Ride" that might give you more context.  It is shown only on MTV, a subscription cable channel that people elect to have in their homes.  That show could never be broadcast on regular TV - the name is much too offensive & the language is too rough to be acceptable.  There are many, many TV programs on cable television that could never be shown on broadcast TV, not because they are for teenagers or they are "bad" but because they are vulgar or violent or too sexual.  Do not think that MTV, HBO, etc, are the norm for all Americans.  These are interesting shows & artistic shows & brilliant shows & funny shows but for one reason or another they are too offensive to show on "regular" broadcast TV, and broadcast TV is a more accurate indicator of what is acceptable to the average American.
> 
> I live in ultra liberal New York City, I grew up here in the wild 1960s/70s, I was raised by a single parent, I work in the arts, and I am rabidly anti-censorship but "pimp" is not a word to use casually.
> If you use "pimp" you must understand people will draw inferences based on that word.
> A pimp is a pimp is a pimp - not a fluffy bunny.
> 
> The verb to pimp is not very very removed from a "pimp" - it is the direct result of verbing the noun "pimp".
> The roots of it, as in Pimp my Ride, it is that in poor crime-ridden neighborhoods the fanciest car with the most accessories was usually driven by a pimp or a drug dealer - so it was a pimped out car.  How a pimp earns the money to pay for his car has already been discussed.  The notion that "pimp" is a different or less offensive concept in other cultures is not convincing but it is slightly disturbing.
> 
> It seems this affects native English speakers more than non-native English speakers but it doesn't seem to be a matter of fluency in English but of cultural associations.



I also live in liberal New York City. When I dress up, my nephews comment that "I'm pimping" (looking good) and they are six, ten, and thirteen. They are Black and to them, "a pimp" is somebody who looks good and is good with the ladies. They are too young to understand the other meanings of that word. And yes, they watch plenty of MTV.

But that usage is obviously not the mainstream one. Not everybody speaks English like kids in the projects. But I suspect that "Pimp of the Pimps" might have been along the lines of something that one of my nephews might comment when I put on a suit and tie.

So I agree that it's cultural.


----------



## TrentinaNE

> Besides, my view is that words acquire / are given new meanings all the time.


But one should be careful about using them in contexts where the new meaning is not yet accepted or perhaps even known.  By the way, a local sandwich shop ran a promotion called "Pimp my burrito" a few months ago.  The management may have gained some teen-aged business, but they lost mine.

Elizabeth


----------



## natasha2000

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> But one should be careful about using them in contexts where the new meaning is not yet accepted or perhaps even known. By the way, a local sandwich shop ran a promotion called "Pimp my burrito" a few months ago. The management may have gained some teen-aged business, but they lost mine.
> 
> Elizabeth


 
Maybe his target group WERE teenagers, and not adults....


----------



## Dr. Quizá

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> a local sandwich shop ran a promotion called "Pimp my burrito" a few months ago.  The management may have gained some teen-aged business, but they lost mine.



But it wasn't banned, was it?


----------



## ElaineG

> But it wasn't banned, was it?


 
The promotion was likely run by the owner of the shop, not a consumer.  

Your analogy would only apply if the owner of the shop had a sign posted saying "no vulgar sandwich names please," and Trentina went in and hung up a banner saying "Pimp my Burrito" in the owner's store, and other customers complained, but the owner let Trentina keep her banner up because.....

Because why again?  Because Trentina's "right" to free expression in a private space was more important than pre-existing rules or other people's feelings?  

Makes sense....Not.


----------



## Dr. Quizá

But... she didn't warn the authorities, did she?


----------



## ElaineG

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> But... she didn't warn the authorities, did she?


 
You've lost me.


----------



## cuchuflete

Let's have a look at the original question, expressed in the thread title:



> *Can one be offended by silly words like nicknames?*



Answers:

1) Yes, obviously one can, because some were.
2) "Silly" is the personal interpretation of one forera, who had the benefit of reading an explanation of the name, in one of the nearly one million posts in one of the 144.000 threads in this forum.  

Others, not having read one post in that one thread, might think the words other than 'silly'.  Still others, having found the thread, and read the post, might still choose to characterize the name as something other than 'silly'.

The sex of those who complained is not at issue.  You may find that bit of history pleasing or offensive as you see fit.

The motivation of those who complained is not at issue.  You may hold whatever view you like about those motivations--there was more than one.

The tangential uses of the word pimp as a verb is not at issue.  The generational differences in perception of the noun pimp is not at issue.

The member name was sufficiently offensive to some members of the community that they notified the moderator staff.   The moderators considered the objections, and came to a decision.  

Given the number of members registered and active in these forums, and the rules of the forums, it would be impractical and totally illogical to make decisions by popular vote.   

Those who have chosen to disagree with the moderators' decision have had their opportunity to express their objections, and some have repeated those objections  numerous times.   

Those who may wish to repeat their objections to the administrative processes of the forums may do so.  If that provides some sort of catharsis, very well.  Lacking some additional and persuasive fact or logic, the odds of this being more than a catharsis are very slim.


----------



## Dr. Quizá

ElaineG said:
			
		

> You've lost me.



Indeed: the reason is your example is unrealistic whilst the "Pimp case" has happened and will happen again. It's a matter of time and I know it because rule 23 is pretty weird and unexpected and it's placed in 23rd place! I wonder how many people in this forums read the whole list of rules...


----------



## fenixpollo

As to the gender of those involved, I agree that it is totally irrelevant.  In addition, it appears to me that PotP is actually a female forera.  Perhaps she should have chosen Madam of the Madams as her original username, and none of this would have happened.  Irony of ironies, no?


----------



## elroy

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> Indeed: the reason is your example is unrealistic whilst the "Pimp case" has happened and will happen again. It's a matter of time and I know it because rule 23 is pretty weird and unexpected and it's placed in 23rd place! I wonder how many people in this forums read the whole list of rules...


All too few, I'm afraid.
There is no correlation between the order of a rule on our list of rules and that rule's importance.


----------



## ElaineG

> The reason is your example is unrealistic


 
No, "you lost me" means "I didn't understand what you were trying to say."  I didn't understand what you were trying to say in your last post, and I still don't.  But it's not important.



> I wonder how many people in this forums read the whole list of rules...


 
Well, everyone is _supposed_ to.  I can't say how many foreros disregard their obligations.  



> PotP is actually a female forera.


 
You learn something new everyday.


----------



## cuchuflete

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> Indeed: the reason is your example is unrealistic whilst the "Pimp case" has happened and will happen again. It's a matter of time and I know it because rule 23 is pretty weird and unexpected and it's placed in 23rd place! I wonder how many people in this forums read the whole list of rules...



Whether people take the trouble to read the rules or not has nothing to do with their application.  You may ignore the traffic laws of your community, but I doubt that the local authorities would take ignorance of those laws as a valid excuse for driving at 130km/hour in a residential neighborhood.

All members agree at the time of registration to abide by forum rules.  If they choose not to read those rules, they are still bound by them.


----------



## tatis

As someone has pointed, the nickname says a lot about its user.

That it is not directed to anyone in particular is to pretend to be blind. In my opinion, it is directed to each and everyone of us in the forum. It is a way to call for attention and yes, it is up to us to give it importance or to ignore it.

I commend the moderators for doing their job, for giving importance to something that deserves the attention of the administrators, otherwise, why having moderators?

I am sure that Mr. P of the P can use his nickname in other places or sites where people can be so tolerant that for them there is not a line to draw.


----------



## cuchuflete

I'm still enjoying the good Doctor's reference to position #23 in the list of rules. There are 56 numbered items. Therefore, as if it were to matter at all, and it does not, rule #23 would be in the top half of our local regulations.

I wonder if in Dr. Quizá's balliwick it is acceptable to ignore all local laws that are not in first chronological order? I find many aspects of my local tax laws "weird", but that very subjective personal opinion does not liberate me from the obligation to pay taxes according to those rules.


----------



## Dr. Quizá

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> As to the gender of those involved, I agree that it is totally irrelevant.  In addition, it appears to me that PotP is actually a female forera.  Perhaps she should have chosen Madam of the Madams as her original username, and none of this would have happened.  Irony of ironies, no?



Who imagined she's a woman? It seems we gave the nick EVEN more trascendece it has  



			
				elroy said:
			
		

> All too few, I'm afraid.
> There is no correlation between the order of a rule on our list of rules and that rule's importance.



But there is correlation between the order of a rule on the list and it's probability to be read.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> No, "you lost me" means "I didn't understand what you were trying to say."
> 
> I was not sure... so really works the opposite as in Spanish...
> 
> The point is Trentina avoid a disgusting interaction instead of warning authorities as in PoP's case.
> 
> 
> [quot]Well, everyone is _supposed_ to.  I can't say how many foreros disregard their obligations.



You can post a poll on who read all rules, but you'd have to promise that reprisals against who had voted "no" won't be taken


----------



## Dr. Quizá

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> _



But is still unrealistic to compare real life laws with web forums' rules hence you can't expect the same respect towards them.

Most laws are based on "universal" common sense, not on "personal common sense" and are learned during years. If a law is enough complex or unknown, there's an extra reason to be interested in them: to avoid really hard consequences. It's not the same when you sign up in a forum and just want to have fun or ask about the use of an idiom you just learned while you think the rules are "standard", like "do not post illegal stuff".


----------



## Dr. Quizá

tatis said:
			
		

> As someone has pointed, the nickname says a lot about its user.



Maybe it says it's owner thinks the nick says nothing


----------



## Fernando

1) As someone said, our opinion is unimportant. We are not a legislatitive chamber. 

2) Rules are to be enforced. No matter its order or "hardship". Dura lex, sed lex.

3) If you want my opinion (you possibly not) I endorse #23 rule. I do not want a "Nazi of the nazis" is the forum.

4) I am not fluent enough to say nothing about this particular case. In Spanish "chulo de los chulos" (or, more probable, "pa' chulo yo") would hardly arise no problem, but "chulo" is Spanish means many things apart from "proxenete".

5) Can you understand now my nick and (specially) avatar?


----------



## natasha2000

Dr. Quizá said:
			
		

> *But is still unrealistic to compare real life laws with web forums' rules* hence you can't expect the same respect towards them.
> 
> *Most laws are based on "universal" common sense, not on "personal common sense" and are learned during years.* If a law is enough complex or unknown, there's an extra reason to be interested in them: to avoid really hard consequences. It's not the same when you sign up in a forum and just want to have fun or ask about the use of an idiom you just learned while you think the rules are "standard", like "do not post illegal stuff".


 
I love you, Dr Quizá! 



> Originaly posted by *tatis*
> 
> As someone has pointed, the nickname says a lot about its user.
> 
> That it is not directed to anyone in particular is to pretend to be blind. In my opinion, it is directed to each and everyone of us in the forum. It is a way to call for attention and yes, it is up to us to give it importance or to ignore it.
> 
> I commend *the moderators for doing their job*, for *giving importance to something that deserves the attention of the administrators*, otherwise, why having moderators?
> 
> *I am sure that Mr. P of the P can use his nickname in other places or sites* where people can be so *tolerant* that for them there is not a line to draw.


 
I love you, Tatis. 

And it was I who said that the nickname tells a lot about its owner.

Moderators, feel free to delete this, but i had to express how much in agreement I am with these two foreros.


----------



## moodywop

I have hesitated to post in this thread so far, partly because I can see the points of both "factions" and partly because my own nickname was found objectionable by a few members when I joined - I've grown quite fond of it and I wouldn't like it to come under scrutiny again .

Elaine has raised an interesting issue:




			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Because why again? Because Trentina's "right" to free expression in a private space was more important than pre-existing rules or other people's feelings?


 
This is an issue I've been pondering over with regard to some posts in the Cultural Discussions forum. On the one hand I'm perfectly aware that trying to avoid offending the sensibilities of others at all costs might stifle debate and "free speech". On the other hand, as Elaine says, it is quite legitimate - in a privately-owned forum - to come up with rules that limit "free expression" in order to maintain a "respectful, cordial tone" and to avoid hurting the feelings of members. The tricky part is where to draw the line. I don't envy the mods the hard task of establishing that, on a case-by-case basis.

I wonder, however, whether any of the foreros who objected to the nickname in question also objected to the following statement in the thread on homosexuality in Cultural Discussions:


> "We (who consider homosexualism as an *evil deviation*)"


 


			
				Fernando said:
			
		

> 2) Rules are to be enforced. No matter its order or "hardship". Dura lex, sed lex.
> 
> 3) If you want my opinion (you possibly not) I endorse #23 rule.


 
I wonder whether Fernando, who made the above remark, is aware of rule 26:


> "Any post that disparages, denigrates, or degrades other members, groups of people, cultures or nations will be deleted."


----------



## Fernando

Needless to say, I am.

As far as I know, I have never broken it. As a matter of fact, this post has stayed there FOR FOUR MONTHS without being "punished". But if any moderator want to delete it, go along.

Moodywoop, I enjoy to be quoted. It is not the best of my 3,200 posts or so, but well, it is good to know there are people who treasure your comments in their hearts. Thank you very much for your devotion.

Off topic. Mods, feel free to delete this post.


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## Jana337

This thread is quite far from its original topic; I am closing it.

Thank you for your comments. 

Jana


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