# إناء - أوانٍ



## newbie24

In a text book I found that "غسل الأواني" means "to do the dishes", and then, in fact I found in an online dictionary and then also in my German-Arabic dictionary that "أوان" means "dishes". I'm having, however, trouble to locate this in my Arabic-German dictionary (Wehr). I can only find an entry which translates it as "time". Am I looking in the wrong place? Is there a verb this word derives from, and what are it's radicals?

TIA,

Thomas


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## ayed

_*Awan*_(in) *أوانٍ *is the plural of *Aaniyah آنية *which means a vessel or a bowl or a dish. Is this what you're looking for?


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## newbie24

Yes, thank you, ayed! That brought me back on track ;-) Now I found it also in Wehr's dictionary, though it says there that it's "إناء", and that "أنية" is already a plural form.


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## ayed

newbie24 said:


> Yes, thank you, ayed! That brought me back on track ;-) Now I found it also in Wehr's dictionary, though it says there that it's "إناء", and that "أنية" is already a plural form.


Yes, you're right. It is my fault. _*Awanin *_and *Aaniya *is the plural of *Inaa.*


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## shafaq

newbie24 said:


> In a text book I found that "غسل الأواني" means "to do the dishes", and then, in fact I found in an online dictionary and then also in my German-Arabic dictionary that "أوان" means "dishes". I'm having, however, trouble to locate this in my Arabic-German dictionary (Wehr). I can only find an entry which translates it as "time". Am I looking in the wrong place? Is there a verb this word derives from, and what are it's radicals?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Thomas


It is the first time I heard أوان is the plural of إناء which means dish. (I think it is pretty possible for me as non-native  ). 
 Till today I had knew that it means "time" which is identical with  حين and زمان in Arabic. Its plurals are آوِنةٌ and أَوانات  . A related famous expression:  قبل  / بعد  فوات الأوان .


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## Abu Talha

shafaq said:


> It is the first time I heard أوان is the plural of إناء which means dish. (I think it is pretty possible for me as non-native  ).
> Till today I had knew that it means "time" which is identical with  حين and زمان in Arabic. Its plurals are آوِنةٌ and أَوانات  . A related famous expression:  قبل  / بعد  فواةت الأوان .


I haven't come across أوان as a plural of إناء either but it is attested in لسان العرب as a جمع جمع. 





			
				لسان العرب said:
			
		

> والإِناءُ، ممدود: واحد الآنِية معروف مثل رداء وأَردية، وجمعه آنيةٌ، وجمع الآنية الأَواني، على فواعل جمع فاعلة، مثل سِقاء وأَسْقِية وأَساقٍ.



Incidentally, Ayed is correct because أوانٍ is a plural of آنية (which is a plural of إناء).

Also أوان as a plural of آنية is different from أوان meaning "time". The former is أوانٍ _awānin_ in the indefininte (nominative and genitive) and الأواني _al-2awānī_ in the definite.

أوان meaning "time" is like زمان.


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## cherine

Correct. أوان with the meaning of dishes is just الأواني in the indefinite, so it loses its final yaa2, while أوان (time) keeps this form in both definite and indefinite.
So, the two words in the definite form are: الأواني and الأوان


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## إسكندراني

cherine said:


> Correct. أوان with the meaning of dishes is just الأواني in the indefinite, so it loses its final yaa2,


Is this true for all nouns ending in ـي ?


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## cherine

Yes. القاضي - قاضٍ، الوادي - وادٍ، النادي - نادٍ - العالي - عالٍ ، الماشي - ماشٍ، الرامي - رامٍ ....


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## dkarjala

cherine said:


> Yes. القاضي - قاضٍ، الوادي - وادٍ، النادي - نادٍ - العالي - عالٍ ، الماشي - ماشٍ، الرامي - رامٍ ....



But this only happens to كرسي in the plural for some reason, right? كرسي/الكرسي but كراسٍ/الكراسي

Is the final ياء in كرسي considered to have a _shadda_?


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## إسكندراني

Thanks Cherine; what is this rule called?


dkarjala said:


> Is the final ياء in كرسي considered to have a _shadda_?


Yes, it has a شدّة


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## dkarjala

إسكندراني said:


> Thanks Cherine; what is this rule called?
> 
> Yes, it has a شدّة



That explains why it doesn't become تنوين كسرة when نكرة. My guess is that it is just a 'confused' form because it's originally a non-Semitic borrowed word (I'm guessing Arabic < Aramaic < Akkadian < Sumerian) and so it is treated half like a native word, half like a borrowing.


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## إسكندراني

dkarjala said:


> That explains why it doesn't become تنوين كسرة when نكرة. My guess is that it is just a 'confused' form because it's originally a non-Semitic borrowed word (I'm guessing Arabic < Aramaic < Akkadian < Sumerian) and so it is treated half like a native word, half like a borrowing.


How is it treated like a borrowing?


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## dkarjala

إسكندراني said:


> How is it treated like a borrowing?



Perhaps borrowing isn't the correct phrase, but what I'm saying is that the word, in the plural, can be treated as though the root were ك ر س ي and can take _tanwiin_ when indefinite (كراسٍ). On the other hand, in the singular, it can take nominative and genitive case endings like a _nisba_ (كرسيًّ، كرسيٍّ), since the _yaa _is doubled, where a simple _yaa _the root should shorten to a _kasra_ when _tanwiin _is applied (كرسٍ*) like all the words above.

I am interested now to look and see if there are any native جذور رباعية with ياء as their final root letter to compare the patterns.


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## Abu Talha

كرسي is discussed a little here: My chair (adding the possessive yaa2 to a word ending with yaa2)

Also words like سَعْي and عادِيّ retain the ياء in the indefinite.

Curiously, a few plurals (I know of only أمانيّ and أغانيّ) can have a doubled yaa2 in the indefinite.


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## cherine

The yaa2 of كرسي here is not the possessive, it's just a doubled yaa2. And yes, it's because it's doubled that it doesn't get ellided in the indefinite.

إسكندراني , I don't know the name of the rule, sorry. I just know how it works. 

So, the final yaa2 pronounced "ii" gets ellided in the indefinite form, like the examples I give above. Doubled yaa2s and yaa2 pronounced like "-y" like كرسيّ، سَعْي، مشْي... are kept.

Abu Talha, the word أغانيّ sounds new to me, I know الأغاني (ends with "ii" not "iy") and I think there's a slight difference between أمانيّ and أمانٍ . I'm not sure about how أمانيّ is formed, but yes, if it's الأمانيّ it remains أمانيّ while الأماني becomes أمانٍ.


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## barkoosh

It's the rule of الاسم المنقوص.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2333996
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2359829


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## barkoosh

While discussing the common use of أمسيَة instead of the dictionary-based أمسيَّة, the reference معجم الصواب اللغوي explains:


> الذي جاء في المعاجم للمعنى المذكور "أُمسيَّة" بتشديد الياء، ولم يرد تخفيفها في هذا اللفظ، ولكن يمكن تصحيحها لإجازة مجمع اللغة المصري لها، وقد اعتمد في إجازته لها على القياس على نظائر لهذا الاستعمال، حيث ورد عن العرب كلمات على نفس الصيغة، تستعمل مشَدَّدة ومُخَفَّفة، مثْل كلمة "أغنيّة"، و"مرثيَّة"، و"أمنيّة". والأخيرة وردت بالتخفيف في قراءة لقوله تعالى: <أَلْقَى الشَّيْطَانُ فِي أُمْنِيَّتِهِ> الحج/52، وقد ورد الاستعمال المرفوض في بعض المعاجم الحديثة كالأساسي


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## dkarjala

Thanks everyone! By the way, both كراسٍ and كراسيّ are attested in Classical Arabic.


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