# Gender (spoken)



## Perico Nuevo

Hola a todos,
In spoken spanish, do native speakers often mess up the gender of a word? Ex. el agua, el síntoma, etc.?  If so, does one generally correct oneself (el .... errr..  la cocina) or just move along with the conversation.
When speaking spanish I especially feel "foreign" with my frequent el/la mixups, and I have a tendency to "backtrack" and correct the phrasing


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## tissi

No, native speakers don't mess up the gender, it comes naturally. 
Only with femenine words starting with a (like agua, ala...) because in that case the definite article changes to "el". Then you can hear people saying wrong things.


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## profe105

litt96 said:


> Hola a todos,
> In spoken spanish, do native speakers often mess up the gender of a word? Ex. el agua, el síntoma, etc.? If so, does one generally correct oneself (el .... errr.. la cocina) or just move along with the conversation.
> When speaking spanish I especially feel "foreign" with my frequent el/la mixups, and I have a tendency to "backtrack" and correct the phrasing


 
These are not mistakes.  Words in Spanish that start with a stressed a take el as the definite article, but they are still feminine words:  El agua está fría.  When made plural, they take the feminine definite article: las aguas.  Many words that have a Greek origin end in _a_ but are masculine.  I believe that words like _el mapa_ and _el drama_ are examples.


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## VivaReggaeton88

They don't "mess it up". El agua is "el" because if it was "la" it would sound like "laagua". It is still a feminine word.


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## lazarus1907

litt96 said:


> Hola a todos*: *(if you salute in Spanish, keep it in Spanish with the colon)
> In spoken spanish, do native speakers often mess up the gender of a word? Ex. el agua, el síntoma, etc.?  If so, does one generally correct oneself (el .... errr..  la cocina) or just move along with the conversation.
> When speaking spanish I especially feel "foreign" with my frequent el/la mixups, and I have a tendency to "backtrack" and correct the phrasing


We get it right most of the time... in trivial conversations, of course. However, some feminine words starting with "a" change into masculine just to avoid an ugly sound, and many natives believe that those words are actually masculine. Native speakers make more than 10 mistakes in written and spoken Spansih, if you're curious.


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## Perico Nuevo

Haha. what I actually meant was if a Spanish speaker might say "la aqua" or "la mapa" 
I wasn't very clear in asking


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## VivaReggaeton88

litt96 said:


> Haha. what I actually meant was if a Spanish speaker might say "la aqua" or "la mapa"
> I wasn't very clear in asking



Ohh haha. No, they wouldn't, it is just not right.


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## IDiedInSpain

It's probably the same as English speakers knowing to say "an owl" rather than "a owl." I can't imagine ever making that mistake, even if I'm intoxicated or something.


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## HunkiDori

Hah. Probably when writing or typing, I would imagine, people confuse their gender labels (what exactly do you call those?). But often I find that people hear themselves if they actually say it; it sounds unnatural.


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## Argónida

litt96 said:


> Hola a todos,
> In spoken spanish, do native speakers often mess up the gender of a word? Ex. el agua, el *síntoma*, etc.? If so, does one generally correct oneself (el .... errr.. la cocina) or just move along with the conversation.
> When speaking spanish I especially feel "foreign" with my frequent el/la mixups, and I have a tendency to "backtrack" and correct the phrasing


 
Respecto a *síntoma*, es una palabra masculina aunque termine en "a". No te confundas, hay palabras masculinas que terminan en "a" (síntoma, mapa, día, prisma...) y palabras femeninas que terminan en "o" (radio, moto, foto...).


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## tissi

The mistake is not the use of "el" with agua. That's the rule.
People often make mistakes because they think that agua is masculine and they say _Hay mucho agua  _ o _poco agua  _, which is not correct. 

Tissi


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## gomie2003

?Debo corregirme si equivoque del genero cuando hablo?...o debo continuar con la conversacion como tal no dije nada de error?  No quiero que la gente piense que sea idiota, pero siempre me gustaria hablar con buen ritmo


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## mjmuak

no one is going to think you are stupid if you make any mistake, it is not your language, people might laugh, but that will help you know that you have made a mistake and learn from it, and you don´t have to feel bad about it

mi advice is that unless you are passing an exam, don´t worry too much, the gender of the words will come naturally and people who know more spanish than you will tell you when you have made a mistake, the important thing is to communicate, if you start thinking about all the mistakes you are going make, you will never finish a sentece

saludos


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## HunkiDori

tissi said:


> The mistake is not the use of "el" with agua. That's the rule.
> People often make mistakes because they think that agua is masculine and they say _Hay mucho agua  _o _poco agua  _, which is not correct.
> 
> Tissi


 
I'm sorry, I don't really understand. Are you saying that the word agua is _not_, in fact, masculine, even though its gender label (whatever it's called) _is _masculine?


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## Aurin

The gender of agua is feminine. But you use the masculine article because it sounds better: el agua
but: mucha agua 
el agua fría


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## tissi

This is from the Diccionario de dudas de la Real Academia:

*Agua:* Este sustantivo es femenino. Al comenzar por /a/ tónica, exige el uso de la forma _el_ del artículo definido si entre ambos elementos no se interpone otra palabra, pero los adjetivos deben ir en forma femenina: _«Podía verse a lo lejos el agua clara»_ 

http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/

This is the link in case you want to read the complete explanation. Just write "agua" and clic "consultar"

Saludos,
Tissi


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## HunkiDori

Oh, thanks! I was always confused by that. Are there any other words like that?


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## Aurin

el alma
el águila
el aula
el hacha...
and those above mentioned.


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## Outsider

HunkiDori said:


> I'm sorry, I don't really understand. Are you saying that the word agua is _not_, in fact, masculine, even though its gender label (whatever it's called) _is _masculine?


Think of it this way: it's not the word _agua_ that is masculine; it's the article _el_ that _isn't_. 
In this very particular case, it's best to think of it as a rare variant of _la_.


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## ORL

No, we don't mess up word genders, except for the old discussion (rather an argument) about "azúcar" and "sartén". In Argentina we tend to say "azúcar moren*a*"while in Spain they would say "moren*o*". The right article gender for sartén is an old discussion, even though according to the dictionary, it is masculine... or was it feminine??
On the other hand, Spanish speakers tend to mess up everything else, being our own language the favourite victim of our own ignorance;-)
By the way, man*o* is feminine; intendent*e *can be both, however many insist on  saying "intendenta", especially feminists who complain all the time about the so called "genderism" that seems to affect our language;-)


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## tissi

We use the masculine definite article with all the words starting with “a” that are stressed in the first syllable. Like the ones in Aurin’s answer. “Hacha” is included because it sounds /a/. We change article to make it sound better.
 
And for “sartén”, it’s true. In Asturias, in the north of Spain, they tend to say “el sartén”, but in Madrid everybody says “la sartén”. I always thought “el sartén” was a mistake, but now I see there is a general confusion. I’ve just seen the dictionary and it is feminine, but masculine in some places in America and Spain.
 
_Please, correct my mistakes_


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## gypsykatt1311

gomie2003 said:


> ?Debo corregirme si equivoque del genero cuando hablo?...o debo continuar con la conversacion como tal no dije nada de error? No quiero que la gente piense que sea idiota, pero siempre me gustaria hablar con buen ritmo


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## profe105

In terms of errors, it is unlikely that a gender agreement error is going to cause communication to break down. Native speakers will understand you if you say la mapa instead of el mapa. Will they notice the error? Yes. Will they think you are an idiot? No. They will think you are a non-native speaker of Spanish, which you are.

I say go for a better _ritmo_ when talking rahter than worrying about correcting all your mistakes.


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## alexacohen

People won't think you are an idiot; people will think you're foreigner.
You can correct yourself if you realize your mistakes; but don't think too much about the correct way of speaking. Whenever we speak, we make mistakes. Natives too.
Alexa


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## gypsykatt1311

señor gommie....si Ud. esta consciente de que fallò en la conversaciòn . solo , tendria que pedir disculpa o decir al menos lo siento , pienso que estoy mal me podria ayudar en algo , no piense que la gente piensa en que Ud sea idiota o no..
la mayoria lo ayudara!!! yo vivì mucho tiempo en USA. y nunca hize burla o un mal comentario de ambas partes sea de ingles a espàñol o de espàñol a ingles dependiendo de quien hablase en el momento...
siempre tratè de ayudarlos
siga adelante...
Omar desde Venezuela


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## alexacohen

Hi Profe:
You said basically the same thing I said... only you said it much better!!!
Alexa


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## gypsykatt1311

tissi said:


> We use the masculine definite article with all the words starting with “a” that are stressed in the first syllable. Like the ones in Aurin’s answer. “Hacha” is included because it sounds /a/. We change article to make it sound better.
> 
> And for “sartén”, it’s true. In Asturias, in the north of Spain, they tend to say “el sartén”, but in Madrid everybody says “la sartén”. I always thought “el sartén” was a mistake, but now I see there is a general confusion. I’ve just seen the dictionary and it is feminine, but masculine in some places in America and Spain.
> 
> _Please, correct my mistakes_


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## gypsykatt1311

Not only in Asturias I got this kind of problem over here in Maracaibo (Venezuela), they say the same EL SARTEN...
and I still saying LA SARTEN  may be because of our culture or the way we learnt to say things.
PEACE,,,Omar.


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## rldavis

Outsider said:


> Think of it this way: it's not the word _agua_ that is masculine; it's the article _el_ that _isn't_.
> In this very particular case, it's best to think of it as a rare variant of _la_.



Gracias, Outsider! This is a great way to think of it. And it lines up with the historical origin of the phenomenon: in Old Spanish the feminine article was *ela*, as in *ela* *agua*. In words that began with a stressed *a-*, the final *-a* of the article couldn't be heard, the two *a* sounds blended together, so the phrase sounded like *el agua*.


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## duvija

ok, i think the answers don't belong to the question. Besides 'el agua' and stuff like that, kids/young children screw up royally until they learn the gender of all  nouns. It's part of "child language acquisition' studies.
Adults seldom make mistakes, but they are not impossible. And from one country to the next, there may be differences.


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