# EA: in case



## Ghabi

Referring to this thread, can I say in EA by using _a7san_:

1. _7aDDart kam sandawichaat a7san tiguu3_.

2. _ha2uullak a7san mish 3aarif_ [il-7ikaaya].

?


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## azeid

Ghabi said:


> Referring to this thread, can I say in EA by using _a7san_:
> 
> 1. _7aDDart kam sandawichaat a7san tiguu3_.
> 
> 2. _ha2uullak a7san mish 3aarif_ [il-7ikaaya].
> 
> ?


In the 1st sentence, it means " in case " but in the 2nd, it means " because ".
And it is "La7san" not "a7san"


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## Ghabi

Thanks a lot Azeid. I've learnt from a book that both _la7san_ and _a7san_ can be used to mean "lest", so the book might be wrong. Can I ask why _la7san _in the second sentense would mean "because"? Can you explain that with a few examples? Thanks again.


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## azeid

Ghabi said:


> Thanks a lot Azeid. I've learnt from a book that both _la7san_ and _a7san_ can be used to mean "lest", so the book might be wrong. Can I ask why _la7san _in the second sentense would mean "because"? Can you explain that with a few examples? Thanks again.


You are welcome Ghabi.BTW, I don't think that you are Ghabi  my friend.
1) Sorry about saying that it is "La7san" not "a7san". The two words are used interchangeably but may be i use La7san more than a7san.
2) Your book is right, they can be used as "lest" " خوفا من أو فى حالة "
but these words have many other meanings and it depends on the context. I will try to explain that with some examples.
Examples
i)     *اعمل الواجب لحسن أقول لباباك*​"Do your homework or i will tell your father ( to punish you ) "
So it is used here to threat him.
ii)     *ذاكر لحسن تسقط*​" Study or you will fail "

iii)     *حضرت كام سندوتش لحسن تجوعوا*​It means " I prepared some sandwiches in case you became hungry"
Here, it means " فى حالة "
iv)     *حأقولك لحسن مش عارف إيه اللى حيحصل*​It means " I will tell you because i don't know what will happen"

I think that there are other meanings but i can't remember now.


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## Ghabi

Thanks again Azeid. This structure is very useful, I'll remember all the examples. 

As to my original attempt (no.2), it's meant to say "I will tell you in case you don't know" (as in Josh's original post), not "I will tell you because I don't know what will happen". (My fault. I should have added the translation.) So is my original attempt acceptable for that meaning?


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## azeid

Ghabi said:


> Thanks again Azeid. This structure is very useful, I'll remember all the examples.
> 
> As to my original attempt (no.2), it's meant to say "I will tell you in case you don't know" (as in Josh's original post), not "I will tell you because I don't know what will happen". (My fault. I should have added the translation.) So is my original attempt acceptable for that meaning?


 
As per elroy's explanation to your sentence in the same thread 


> elroy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This, to me, means "I'll tell you if you didn't know," whereas Josh's sentence means "I'll tell you anyway, whether or not you knew, just in case you _didn't_ know."
> 
> quote]
> 
> 
> 
> So if you want to express that using a7san, it will be " حأقولك لحسن *تكون* مش عارف إيه الحكاية "
> Here, The speaker says to the listener that he (the listener) may not know so the speaker will tell him in case the listener knows or not.
> 
> but in the sentence " حأقولك أحسن مش عارف الحكاية "
> it doesn't make sense because it means that the speaker doesn't know so how will he tell something he doesn't know?
Click to expand...


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## londonmasri

azeid said:


> So if you want to express that using a7san, it will be " حأقولك لحسن *تكون* مش عارف إيه الحكاية "


I will tell you in case you don't know.

_ha2ollak 3ashaan tekoon mesh 3aaref_
I will tell you otherwise you won't know what is going on...

_mesh keda ya azeid?_

I think that's right ghabi?


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## azeid

londonmasri said:


> I will tell you in case you don't know.
> 
> _ha2ollak 3ashaan tekoon mesh 3aaref_
> I will tell you otherwise you won't know what is going on...
> 
> _mesh keda ya azeid?_
> 
> I think that's right ghabi?


 
To make sense to Your sentence " _ha2ollak 3ashaan tekoon mesh 3aaref _"" حأقولك عشان تكون مش عارف ", you should add يمكن or لحسن after عشان
So it will be " حأقولك عشان *يمكن/لحسن* تكون مش عارف "


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## Ghabi

In order to test my understanding, I've made up some sentences by using لحسن. Please don't spare you red pen!

1) ما تحكمش لحسن تتحكم  Don't judge lest you be judged. 

2) ورّيني عرض كتافك لحسن اضربك علقة جامدة  Get lost or I'll give you a good beating!

3) ما باقدرش أقولك لحسن جايز غلطان I can't tell you because I may be mistaken.

4) جيب شمسية لحسن تمطّر Bring an umbrella in case it rains.


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## azeid

> 1) ما تحكمش لحسن تتحكم  Don't judge lest you be judged.


I don't understand this sentence please explain it.



> 2) ورّيني عرض كتافك لحسن اضربك علقة جامدة  Get lost or I'll give you a good beating!


This is perfect.



> 3) ما باقدرش أقولك لحسن جايز غلطان I can't tell you because I may be mistaken.


You should add أكون after جايز to complete the meaning of the sentence so it will be ما باقدرش أقولك لحسن جايز أكون غلطان

It is blue this time not red.


> 4)  جيب شمسية لحسن تمطّر  Bring an umbrella in case it rains.


This is perfect.

BTW, This is my 100th post I am a senior now.


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## Ghabi

azeid said:


> I don't understand this sentence please explain it.



It's an often quoted (perhaps misquoted? I don't know the original) saying from the Christian Bible, used to mean that there's only one judge and He is God, because only God is perfect; and if you are not perfect then you have no right to judge others, because others may judge you in the same light.



> You should add أكون after جايز to complete the meaning of the sentence so it will be ما باقدرش أقولك لحسن جايز أكون غلطان



But in one of the examples you give:  حأقولك لحسن مش عارف إيه اللى حيحصل you don't need أكون. How come?



> BTW, This is my 100th post I am a senior now.



الف مبروك


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## londonmasri

azeid said:


> Quote:
> 1) ما تحكمش لحسن تتحكم Don't judge lest you be judged.
> I don't understand this sentence please explain it.


 
Does it make sense to say it this way ghabi/azeid?

_mata7kumshe 3a-nnaas la7san 7atet-7ekem 3aleek._
Don't judge people or else you will be judged.


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## Ghabi

londonmasri said:


> _mata7kumshe 3a-nnaas la7san 7atet-7ekem 3aleek._ Don't judge people or else you will be judged.



Good point, Omar. I was trying my luck with the omissions, but seems that the sentence doesn't make much sense to a native speaker with _3a-nnaas _and_3aleek _omitted_._


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## פפאיה

Hello,
Ghabi - I think that the اكون here - ما باقدرش أقولك لحسن جايز أكون غلطان - has nothing to do with لحسن. It's an imperfect verb empty of meaning, just filling in the place saved for an imperfect verb after جايز. Since there has to be _some_ kind of imperfect verb there, a first person verb, but one that doesn't add any new meaning, you use اكون. 

By the way - did you notice that whenever the meaning of the sentence is in the future and it is uncertain, where things _might_ happen but not in a 100%, you use the imperfect verb after احسن, and when the meaning is of something that already happened, when it's definite - you use a noun after احسن, and it takes the meaning of "because"? (حأقولك لحسن مش عارف إيه اللى حيحصل* - *I will tell you *because *I don't know what will happen).
Just a way to help remember.


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## azeid

Ghabi said:


> It's an often quoted (perhaps misquoted? I don't know the original) saying from the Christian Bible, used to mean that there's only one judge and He is God, because only God is perfect; and if you are not perfect then you have no right to judge others, because others may judge you in the same light.





londonmasri said:


> Does it make sense to say it this way ghabi/azeid?
> 
> _mata7kumshe 3a-nnaas la7san 7atet-7ekem 3aleek._
> Don't judge people or else you will be judged.



OK, to translate that to the Egyptian dialect and to be understandable, it will be " ماتحكمش على الناس لحسن حتحكم عليك "
but it is better to say " كما تدين تدان " or " دع الخلق للخالق " to express this meaning.


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## Ghabi

פפאיה said:


> By the way - did you notice that whenever the meaning of the sentence is in the future and it is uncertain, where things _might_ happen but not in a 100%, you use the imperfect verb after احسن, and when the meaning is of something that already happened, when it's definite - you use a noun after احسن, and it takes the meaning of "because"?



How about:

1) _7aDDar kam mashruub la7san yiigu aS7aab bitu3ak._ "Prepare some drinks in case your friends come."

2) _7aDDar kam mashruub la7san gayyiin aS7aab bitu3ak_. "Prepare some drinks because your friends are coming."

Are they correct?


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## cherine

Why is everyone using la7san in all contexts? la7san is more about "lest" so it's about preferring that things don't happen. Like in the examples of ذاكر لحسن تسقط = study so that you won't fail.

For "in case" I suggest using لو , yes "law" (edit: I think it's more accurate to say that the expression suggest is "*3ashan law*"):
خد الشمسية عشان لو مطرت
أنا حضّرت سندويتشات عشان لو جعت/عشان لو جعت تاكل
حضّر كام مشروب عشان لو صحابك جُم (Ghabi, we say So7aabak or aS7aabak, but not aS7aab betuu3ak).

And, as a side note, I see you guys are discussing other structures and not only "in case". So please, let's stay on the topic of this thread, and any other related structures can be discussed in other threads.


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## azeid

פפאיה said:


> By the way - did you notice that whenever the meaning of the sentence is in the future and it is uncertain, where things _might_ happen but not in a 100%, you use the imperfect verb after احسن, and when the meaning is of something that already happened, when it's definite - you use a noun after احسن, and it takes the meaning of "because"? (حأقولك لحسن مش عارف إيه اللى حيحصل* - *I will tell you *because *I don't know what will happen).
> Just a way to help remember.



Good note Papaya but i would like to add something, In case of uncertainty or when لحسن is used as lest you use a verb in the present tense after لحسن

تعالى بسرعة لحسن أخوك ييجى
حأحضر هدومى لحسن يمكن أنزل كمان شوية
اعمل الواجب لحسن أقول لبابابك
ذاكر لحسن تسقط

But when it is definite you use the verb in the future (by adding ح before the verb in the present tense) or by using a noun after it

تعالى بسرعة لحسن أخوك حييجى = تعالى بسرعة لحسن أخوك جاى
حأحضر هدومى لحسن حأنزل كمان شوية = حأحضر هدومى لحسن نازل كمان شوية




Ghabi said:


> How about:
> 
> 1) _7aDDar kam mashruub la7san yiigu aS7aab bitu3ak._ "Prepare some drinks in case your friends come."
> 
> 2) _7aDDar kam mashruub la7san gayyiin aS7aab bitu3ak_. "Prepare some drinks because your friends are coming."
> 
> Are they correct?



1) حضر كام مشروب لحسن ييجوا أصحاب بتوعك
It is good but i will rephrase it to be
حضر كام مشروب لحسن أصحابك ييجوا

2) حضر كام مشروب لحس جايين أصحاب بتوعك
After rephrasing
حضر كام مشروب لحسن أصحابك جايين

In Arabic we use the relative pronouns  " ضمائر موصولة " so you should say أصحابك not أصحاب بتوعك.

I hope it helps and i hope other natives share us their opinions.


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## azeid

cherine said:


> Why is everyone using la7san in all contexts?
> 
> 
> And, as a side note, I see you guys are discussing other structures and not only "in case". So please, let's stay on the topic of this thread, and any other related structures can be discussed in other threads.


Because the thread is about using لحسن as in case but as you are the moderator may be it is better to change the title to "لحسن" or something like that. It is your decision .



cherine said:


> For "in case" I suggest using لو , yes "law":
> خد الشمسية عشان لو مطرت
> أنا حضّرت سندويتشات عشان لو جعت/عشان لو جعت تاكل


Yes but لحسن/أحسن  is used as well as لو and عشان in these sentences

خد الشمسية لحسن تمطر
أنا حضرت السندويتشات لحسن أجوع


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## cherine

azeid said:


> Because the thread is about using لحسن as in case but as you are the moderator may be it is better to change the title to "لحسن" or something like that. It is your decision .


Actually the thread was about the English "in case" but somehow it become a discussion about the use of "a7san" and "la7san".
Changing its title can be a good solution, but maybe we'll need to change the first post.  
We'll see. I can't decide the best solution yet.


> Yes but لحسن/أحسن  is used as well as لو and عشان in these sentences
> خد الشمسية لحسن تمطر
> أنا حضرت السندويتشات لحسن أجوع


Of course we can use it, but then will it mean "in case"?


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## azeid

cherine said:


> Of course we can use it, but then will it mean "in case"?


Why not?
As discussed in the previous posts, it has several meanings.
Thanks to share your opinions with us.


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## scetis

Ghabi said:


> It's an often quoted (perhaps misquoted? I don't know the original) saying from the Christian Bible, used to mean that there's only one judge and He is God, because only God is perfect; and if you are not perfect then you have no right to judge others, because others may judge you in the same light.



I know this thread is a bit old, but I've been spending a lot of time on it... there's a lot to take in. But I thought I would offer something that perhaps is of interest... Regarding the quote from the bible, it's from Matthew 7:1. The NASB, among older more traditional (ie word for word) translations have translated it as 'Do not judge lest you be judged'. The more dynamic equivalent translations, such as the the NIV word is like this "Do not judge, or you too will be judged". The Arabic Bible (New Van Dyke) is closer to the original greek:
لا تَدِينوا لكى لا تُدَانوا. I believe most of you would agree that this is where لحسن would be best suited?


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## إسكندراني

I think that would be fitting if we were to use Egyptian slang - which would be a strange thing to do - but it's OK.
To clarify something I think was mentioned, لحسن can generally always replace ألّا or عشان [حاجة وحشة] ما تحصلش but there are situations where the reverse is not possible; for example إلبس الجاكيتة لحسن الهوا is used by some people just like that (without 'finishing the sentence'). In this context it means something like حاسب


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