# Hypothetical Gothic language constructions



## killerbee256

I need some feedback with some hypothetical Gothic translations. The game my language project is based on is getting a update soon which is adding Crimean Goths. There is scant evidence for the language of the Crimean Goths. What little there is suggests that old Gothic was still used for writing during the 9th and 10th century.
Based on that I constructed some Gothic titles based on German feudal titles. "Viceroy" and "Tribal" are references to way the game uses the terms.


> Kaisar - Emperor
> Kuniggs - King
> Harjitiuho - Duke
> Grefijo/Erlis - Count
> Þegnis - Baron
> 
> Kaisareins - Female Emperor
> Kuniggseins - Female King
> Harjitiuhoeins - Female Duke
> Grefijoeins/Erliseins - Female Count
> Þegniseins - Female Baron
> 
> Gráutareis Undarkuniggs - Viceroy Emperor
> Undarkuniggs - Viceroy King
> Leitils Undarkuniggs - Viceroy Duke
> 
> Gráutareis Undarkuniggseins - Female Viceroy Emperor
> Undarkuniggseins - Female Viceroy King
> Leitils Undarkuniggseins - Viceroy Duke
> 
> Hauhs Haubiþliggs - Tribal Duke
> Haubiþliggs - Tribal Count
> 
> Hauha Haubiþliggseins - Female Tribal Duke
> Haubiþliggseins - Female Tribal Count
> 
> Fauristis - Prince
> Fauristiseins - Princess


_Kuniggs_ is obviously king. It's funny that a word this common wasn't preserved.
_Harjitiuho_ is based off German/Dutch _Herzog_/_Hertog
Grefijo_ is based off German _Graf_. I've not sure if the _e_ should become an _i_ so perhaps it should be _Grifijo_.
_Þegnis_ is based off Old English _Þegen_.
_Fauristis_ is based off German _Fürst_.

For "Viceroy duke" I used _Leitils_ "little" because I could not find a Gothic or Proto-Germanic cognate to German _minder_ which what the German localization uses.



> Hailag Romisks Reikeis - Holy Roman Empire
> Þiudisksland - Germany(Deutschland)
> Aggwusland - England
> Scandauja - Scandinavia
> Baurgsand - Burgundy
> Danismarka - Danmark
> swihoreiki - Sweden
> Nurþriwigs - Norway
> Freisisland - Frisia
> Bajowarjan - Bavaria
> Sweban - Swabia
> Sahsen - Saxony


My attempt at some empire and kingdom names.


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## ahvalj

Which century language is it expected to be? I guess the end of the 1st millennium? Gothic was rapidly evolving at the time when it was attested, and Crimean Gothic of the feudal times was certainly much more modernized than Wulfila's language.

In particular, the final _-s_ in the Nominative Singular is already absent in the 6th century Ostrogothic in Italy (_Ruderic, Gudilub, Uftahari), _the same in contemporary Vandalian in Africa (_Gunthamund, Witarith, Fridamal, Geilamir,_ except for names in _-rix_). In 16th century Crimean Gothic _-s_ seems to be retained in some words: _wintsch_ "wind", _stats_ "country" and lost in others _stul_ "chair", _tag_ "day", _alt_ "old".

The long _e_ and _o_ evolve towards _i_ and _u_ in the 6th century: _Walamir, Theodemir, Sinderith, Ebremuth, Alamud, Dumilda, Butila, Ruderic_ (Ostrogothic), _Geilamir, Gamuth, Blumarith_ (Vandalian), _Ginderith_ (Gepidian), _Filimuth_ (Erulian). In Crimean Gothic it has occurred as well: _mina_ "moon", _schlipen_ "sleep", _bruder_ "brother", _plut_ "blood", _stul_ "chair".

Wulfila's short _i_ and _u_ were rather open and were often written with _e_ and _o_ in the Latin script: _Geberic~Ghiberic, Sigisvultus~Segisvuldus, Tolwin~Tulwin, Amalaswintha~Amalaswentha, Mateswintha~Mateswentha_ (Ostrogothic), _Heldica~Hildica, Stelico~Stilico_ (Vandalian), _Segismundus~Sigismundus_ (Burgundian). In Crimean Gothic the distribution seems to follow the North/West Germanic pattern with _e/i_ and _o/u_ distributed depending on the openness of the following vowel (which often may have been dropped): _stern_ "star", _reghen_ "rain" vs. _siluir_ "silver", _fisct_ "fish"; _boga_ "arch", _goltz_ "gold", _kor_ "corn" vs. _thur_ "door"; and only _i_ and _u_ precede the nasals: _rinck_ "ring", _wintsch_ "wind", _singhen_ "sing", _sune_ "sun", _brunna_ "spring, fountain".

The diphthongs were most probably already monophthongized in Wulfila's language (cp. _Staifanus, Faurtunatus, Beþlaihaim, praufetus, Þaissalauneika_) and were certainly so in the later languages: _Ostrogothi, Gesimund, Gesila, Odwin, Oswin, Goda_ (Ostrogothic), _Gelimer~Geilamir, Godigisclus, Godagis_ (Vandalian). In 16th century Crimean Gothic we find _ie_ (long _i_): _iel_ "hail", _ieltsch_ "healthy" and _oe_ (long _u_): _broe_ "bread", _hoef_ "head", _oeghene_ "eyes".​
Also, do we have any evidence of a West European type feudal system in the Crimea? I guess the Gothic social organization rather followed that of their Greek and Turkic neighbors. In particular, as a nation they seem to have been very quiet and in permanent decline, with no military leaders of any significance attested in the foreign sources during the more than a millennium-long history of Goths on the peninsula.

The Gothic word _*kuniggs,_ though unattested, was borrowed into Slavic as _*kuningə,_ which produced the Old Church Slavonic (10th century) _кънѧѕь/kъnęʣь_ "prince", _кънѧгыни/kъnęgyni_ "princess".


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## killerbee256

Thank you very much, it is very difficult find this information on the net. I will make adjustments to my constructions.


ahvalj said:


> Also, do we have any evidence of a West European type feudal system in the Crimea? I guess the Gothic social organization rather followed that of their Greek and Turkic neighbors. In particular, as a nation they seem to have been very quiet and in permanent decline, with no military leaders of any significance attested in the foreign sources during the more than a millennium-long history of Goths on the peninsula.


Simply put no. However the game I'm created these for, Crusader Kings 2, is at heart a feudalism simulator so I need something to replace the English terms emperor, king, duke, count and baron with. Given the lack of data I think basing the replacements on closely related languages is the best choice. The earliest start date of the game is in the 8th century, so that is the time period I'm aiming for. The game itself is a "sandbox" where anything may happen, particularly if the player wants it to.

I need some clarification, based off the loan into Slavic _*kuningə_ should -_iggs_ be -_ing_? Should the _au_ be reduced to _oe_ as in Crimean Gothic? So *_foerist_, _baurgs_ becomes _*boerg_?  If I drop the final s words like _*Reikeis_, _*Gráutareis, _*_Þegnis_ do I drop the i as well? So _*Rik_e, _*Gráutare, _*_Þegn_. Is the _áu_ in _Gráutare_ a diphthong? Should it be reduced _o_ or _u_? _J_ should folded into the near by vowel? I drop the _-rą_ from cardinal directions, so *_nurþ_, *_sunþ_, *_oest_ and *_west_?

Here are my revisions:


> Kesar - Emperor
> Kuning - King
> Haritiuho - Duke
> Grifio/Erl - Count
> Þegn - Baron
> 
> Kesarin - Female Emperor
> Kuningin - Female King
> Haritiuhoin - Female Duke
> Grifioin/Erlin - Female Count
> Þegnin - Female Baron
> 
> Grotare Undarkuning - Viceroy Emperor
> Undarkuning - Viceroy King
> Litil Undarkuning - Viceroy Duke
> 
> Grotare Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy Emperor
> Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy King
> Litil Undarkuningin - Viceroy Duke
> 
> Hoh Hobiþling - Tribal Duke
> Hobiþling - Tribal Count
> 
> Hoha Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Duke
> Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Count
> 
> Forist - Prince
> Foristin - Princess
> 
> Helag Romisk Rike - Holy Roman Empire
> Þiudiskland - Germany(Deutschland)
> Angululand - England
> Scandaua - Scandinavia
> Baurgand - Burgundy
> Danimarka - Danmark
> Swihorike - Sweden
> Nurþwig - Norway
> Frisland - Frisia
> West Frisland - West Frisia
> Ost Frisland - East Frisia
> Baiowaran - Bavaria(Bayern)
> Sweban - Swabia
> Sahsen - Saxony
> Sunþsahsane - Sussex(Suþseaxe)
> Westsahsane - Wessex(Westseaxna)
> Ostsahsane - Essex(Eastseaxe)
> Midlsahsans - Middlesex(Middleseaxan)
> Ost Angulans - East Anglia(East Engla)
> Iutaland - Jutland



With the changes applied many of the words resemble their cognates in old high German. Is it likely that Gothic speakers in Northern Italy may have been influenced by Old High German?


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## ahvalj

The Gothic _ai_ and _au_ occur in five cases:

when transliterating foreign _e_ and _o_ (_Staifanus, Faurtunatus, Beþlaihaim, praufetus, Þaissalauneika _from my post; also _Aileisabaiþ, apaustaulus, Pauntius; _cp. the doublets _Beþsaeida~Baiþsaida-,_ _praitoria~praitauria_)
before _r,_ _h _and _ƕ _instead of _i~e_ and _u~o_ of other languages (_bairan, baurgs_), as well as in several other words (_waila_ "well")
in the reduplication syllable (_haihald, saislep, lailot_)
when other languages have diphthongs _ai_ and _au_ or their outcomes
in some words before vowels (_saian, sauil_).
For the first three cases there is agreement that _ai_ stood for an open _e_ and _au_ for an open _o_ (short or long depending on etymology). For the fourth case some people believe _ai_ and _au_ were still diphthongs at Wulfila's times, other prefer to regard them as monophthongs standing for the long open _e_ and _o_. The fifth case is ambiguous. Anyway, Latin transliterations seem to testify that all _ai_ and _au_ had become _e_ and _o_ by the 6–7th centuries. It is hard to tell when the long _ai>e_ and _au>o_ became _i_ and _u_ in Crimean Gothic: judging from the West Germanic languages, most probably sometime in the first half of the 2nd millennium, so in your period they probably were still _e_ and _o_.

_Gg_ in Gothic, following the Greek orthography, in most cases (i. e. except boundaries of compounds) meant _ng,_ so _**kuniggs_ stood for _**kunings.
_
I'd suggest the following transformations of Wulfila's sounds:

_e>i_ and _o>u_ (as it had occurred to the 6–7th centuries anyway)
_ai>e _and_ au>o _(regardless, short or long)
_ei_ is just a Greek-influenced way to express the long _i,_ it wasn't a diphthong in the Gothic Bible, so _ei→i_
_i>i~e_ and _u>u~o_ depending on the next vowel: practically, follow the West Germanic pattern (_ring, fisk, sunno_ but _berg, regn, golth_)
_iu:_ there are no clues; judging by other languages, it first split into _iu_ and _io_ and then each variant developed separately
leave consonants as they are, since there is too much room for speculation, plus Wulfila's Gothic and Crimean Gothic were not identical in this respect, cp. Wulfila's _broþar_ vs. the Crimean _bruder._
I will try to check the literature and comment your word lists in the following days.


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## killerbee256

ahvalj said:


> I will try to check the literature and comment your word lists in the following days.


Thank you, I've updated my word list to incorporate the information you've posted.
I can no longer edit my old post, so here is my updated word list:


Spoiler: List



Kesar - Emperor
Kuning - King
Haritiuho - Duke
Grifio/Erl - Count
Þegn - Baron

Kesarin - Female Emperor
Kuningin - Female King
Haritiuhoin - Female Duke
Grifioin/Erlin - Female Count
Þegnin - Female Baron

Grotare Undarkuning - Viceroy Emperor
Undarkuning - Viceroy King
Lutil Undarkuning - Viceroy Duke

Grotare Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy Emperor
Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy King
Lutil Undarkuningin - Viceroy Duke

Hoh Hobiþling - Tribal Duke
Hobiþling - Tribal Count

Hoha Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Duke
Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Count

Forist - Prince
Foristin - Princess

Nurþ - North
Sunþ - South
Ost - East
West - West

Helag Romisk Rike - Holy Roman Empire
Þiudiskland - Germany(Deutschland)
Angululand - England
Skaþenaua - Scandinavia
Baurgand - Burgundy
Danimarka - Danmark
Swehurike/Swehen - Sweden
Nurþwig - Norway
Frisland - Frisia
West Frisland - West Frisia
Ost Frisland - East Frisia
Baiowaran - Bavaria(Bayern)
Sweban - Swabia
Sahsen - Saxony
Sunþsahsane - Sussex(Suþseaxe)
Westsahsane - Wessex(Westseaxna)
Ostsahsane - Essex(Eastseaxe)
Midlsahsans - Middlesex(Middleseaxan)
Ost Angulans - East Anglia(East Engla)
Iutaland - Jutland
Sibunborgum - Transylvania(Siebenbürgen)
Frankam - Franconia(Franken)
Ostaririke - Austria(Österreich)
Lutilumborg - Luxembourg
Thoringan - Thuringia(Thüringen)


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## ahvalj

Some notes about the Busbecq's Gothic consonants.

Wulfila's _b_ and _d_ were stops word-initially, elsewhere (except after _n_ and _m_) probably spirants like in Spanish. _G_ was most probably a spirant everywhere, like in Dutch.

_*b-: b- *
*bards : bars_ "barba" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/bardaz - Wiktionary), perhaps _**barth
*buga : boga_ "arcus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/bugô - Wiktionary)
_*brauþ : broe_ "panis" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/braudą - Wiktionary)
_broþar : bruder_ "frater"
_brunna : brunna_ "fons"

except:
_bloþ : plut_ "sanguis"

_*-b- : -v-*
sibun : seuene_ "septem"
_silubr : siluir_ "argentum"

devoiced word-finally, as in Wulfila's language:
_haubiþ : hoef_ "caput"

*d- : t-*
_dags : tag_ "dies"
_daur : thurn_ "porta"

*-d- : -d-*
_*addj : ada_ "ovum" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/ajją - Wiktionary)
_fidwor, fidur- : fyder_ "quattuor"

but devoiced word-finally:
_*weinagards : wingart_ "vitis" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/gardaz - Wiktionary)

_*g- : g-*
*gaian : geen_ "ire" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/gāną - Wiktionary)
_gulþ : goltz_ "aurum"

_*-g- : -g-*
augona : oeghene _"oculi"
_*buga : boga_ "arcus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/bugô - Wiktionary)
_rign : reghen_ "pluvia"
_*wagns : waghen_ "currus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/wagnaz - Wiktionary)
(_gh_ is used before _e_)
_
*-k- : -ch-* _in several cases
_ik : ich _"ego"
_meki : mycha _"ensis"
Since the Crimean Gothic speaker was a Crimean Greek, and Melitopolitan Greek (the modern descendant of Crimean Greek) knows_ k>x,_ it has been suggested that this occasional _x_ comes from the accent of this Greek speaker.
_
*þ- : tz- (þ ?)*
þu : tzo_ "tu"

_*-þ- : -tz- (þ ?)*
gulþ : goltz_ "aurum"
_staþs : statz_ "terra"

_*s : š*_ in the same cases as in German
_fisks : fisct (fisch ?)_ "piscis"
_*skiutan : schieten_ "mittere sagittam" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/skeutaną - Wiktionary)
_slepan : schlipen_ "dormire"
_*swalts : schwalth_ "mors" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/sweltaną - Wiktionary)
_swistar : schwester_ "soror"
_*snuza : (?) schuos (schnos ?)_ "sponsa" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/snuzō - Wiktionary)
(this latter word suggests that Crimean Gothic didn't have rhotacism)

_*č*_ (?)
_*hailiþs : (?) ieltsch_ "vivus sive sanus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hailijaną - Wiktionary)
_*rinds : rintsch_ "mons" (rand - Wiktionary ?)
_winds : wintch_ "ventus"

For the purpose of your list, this means:
_b->b-
-b->-v-
d->t or _better _d _as we don't know when the devoicing occurred (this shift has been hypothetically ascribed to the Turkic influence since the mountain Crimean Tatarian doesn't have _d-_)
_-d->d
g>g
þ>th
z>z_

The rise of hissing consonants _š_ and _č _most probably occurred later than your target period.


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## ahvalj

For the final vowels, we have the following.

*A
a : a*
_brunna : brunna _"fons"
_*buga : boga_ "arcus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/bugô - Wiktionary)
_*maþloda_ (_maþljan_ "to speak publicly or at an assembly") : _malthata_ "ego dico" (actually, Preterite; a 1st class weak verb in the Bible vs. 2nd class at Busbecq's; with metathesis)
_sada_ "centum" (from Alanian _*sada,_ compare Ossetic _sædæ_ — сӕдӕ - Wiktionary)
_twa : tua_ "duo"
_waurhta _(?) _: warthata_ "fecisti; fecit" (_tzo warthata_ "tu fecisti"; _ies warthata_ "ille fecit" — waurhta - Wiktionary)
_þrija : tria_ "tres"

_*a : e*
augona : oeghene_ "oculi"
_mena : mine_ "luna"

_*a : ∅*
*snuza : (?) schuos (schnos ?)_ "sponsa" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/snuzō - Wiktionary)

So, the masculine _n_-stems show either_ -a_ (_brunna, boga_) or _-e_ (_mine_). The Preterite _-da~-ta_ retains _-a._ The neuter Nom.~Acc. Pl. shows either _-a_ (_tria_) or _-e_ (_oeghene_). Both may actually represent the same schwa. The only feminine _ā_-stem seems to have lost the vowel (if the etymology is correct; otherwise Gothic may have retained the original _o_-stem — Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/snusós - Wiktionary). Let's assume late 1st millennium Gothic still had _-a._


_*O
o : o*
*hano : ano_ "gallina" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hanjō - Wiktionary)

_*o : a*
*miurjo : miera_ "formica" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/miurijǭ - Wiktionary; for _iu : ie_ cp. _*skiutan : schieten_)

_*o : e*
sunno : sune_ "sol"

_*au : e*
ahtau : athe_ "octo"

_*o : ∅*
stairno : stein_ (_stern_ ?) "stella"
_-dauro : thurn_ "porta" (daurons - Wiktionary and augadauro - Wiktionary)

So, the vowel (in feminine and neuter _n_-stems and in the word "eight") ranges from seemingly retained (perhaps as a schwa as well) to completely lost. Let's keep it as _-o_ in your Gothic.


*Other cases*
_*∅ : e*
niun _(Genitive Plural _niune_ — niune - Wiktionary)_ : nyne_ "novem"
_sibun : seuene_ "septem" (perhaps the same _e_ as in _nyne_)
_taihun : thiine_ "decem" (the same ?)

_*? : a*
handus : handa_ "manus" (may be a separate development of a consonant stem: to _u_-stem in Wulfila's Gothic and some other languages vs. _ā_- or _n_-stem in Busbecq's)

_*? : o*
*hrings : rinck_ sive _ringo_ "annulus" (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hringaz - Wiktionary; the _o_-form may represent an _n_-stem)


✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻✻

The final _s._

West Germanic looses _*-z,_ North Germanic converts it into _R>r,_ East Germanic devoices it to _s_ in Wulfila's Gothic.

In Busbecq's Gothic _-s_ is mostly absent in nouns and adjectives, but is retained in the pronoun _ies_ "ille" (Wulfila's _is_) and the numeral _seis_ "sex" (Wulfila's _saihs_), as well as in four nouns: _fers_ "vir" (Wulfila's _fairƕus_ "world" — Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/ferhuz - Wiktionary, compare Norse _fjǫrr_ "man" — fjǫrr - Wiktionary), _ieltsch, rintsch _and_ wintch_ (see in the previous post). It seems therefore probable that the former distinction between the Nominative and Accusative Singular had been abandoned and the former Accusative form was mostly generalized, with some exceptions (like in French, cp. _fils; _notice that of four Busbecq's nouns with _-s_ all retain it after a consonant cluster). For the last third of the 1st millennium let's keep the Nominative with its _-s_ where appropriate.

P. S. For those interested in Crimean Gothic, there is a recent Russian book on this topic: _Ганина НА · 2011 · Крымско-готский язык_ — Ганина НА · 2011 · Крымско-готский язык.pdf


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## Awwal12

ahvalj said:


> The Gothic word _*kuniggs,_ though unattested, was borrowed into Slavic as _*kuningə_


On a bit of a sidenote, but do you believe that the open syllable law wasn't active yet around the II century a.d.?


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## ahvalj

Awwal12 said:


> On a bit of a sidenote, but do you believe that the open syllable law wasn't active yet around the II century a.d.?


I think that wasn't actually a single law that emerged in the speech of a single generation of kids and affected immediately all the syllable boundaries. Rather, it was a tendency that operated during many centuries and involved different consonants at different periods. For example, much of East Slavic didn't experience this law at all in the case of _*ir_ and _*ur,_ which, unlike in all other Slavic dialects, never became syllabic sonorants and always retained the final _r_ (_*sirpan_ > _*sirpV,_ Finnic _sirppi_ > _сьрпъ_ > _серп; *turguṣ_ > _*turgu,_ Finnic _turku_ > _търгъ_ > _торг_). Likewise, in _ну_-verbs Russian is more prone to dropping the consonant than Ukrainian (_тянуть : тягнути_) and Church Slavonic (_гинуть : гыбнѫти_).

As to the nasalized vowels, the problem is in documenting the time of their development through loanwords into other languages. This can be only done when a preceding vowel had changed in comparison with its original state. For example, the Russian surname of Polish origin _Голомб_ (_«Голубь»_) taken alone doesn't allow to tell whether Polish at the time of borrowing had a nasalized vowel or a vowel+sonorant cluster in the suffix: both would be substituted in the same manner. The same with the French _Macron_ → Russian _Макрон…_ We only have loanwords from Slavic beginning from the second half of the 1st millennium, and they show that the original vowel had already changed to that time, e. g. Votic _koontala : kǫdelь_ (a middle long vowel still with nasalization) → Votic _lookka : lǫka_ (a middle long vowel already without nasalization), Romanian _a munci : mǫčiti_ (a high vowel with nasalization). As to _*in,_ the only possible example that comes to mind is the Romanian _cinstit : čęstitъ_ (Romanian Words of Slavic Origin) if it is a proper loan and not a contamination of two words as discussed there. If _in_ is original, then at the time of first Slavic : Daco-Romance contacts it was still present. For the 2nd century we have not a slightest clue whether the future nasalized vowels were already modified comparing with their original state of plain vowel + _n/m_. Three centuries later, if _Antae_ (Antes (people) - Wikipedia) was a Slavic word, then the nasalization, if present at all, still hadn't influenced the timbre of the vowel.

*Update.* It seems that _in_ was still intact at the time of the Slavic invasion of Greece in the 6–7th centuries as there is the Slavic tribe (with the name of Germanic origin) _Μηλιγγοί~Μεληγγοί~Μιλιγκοί_ (Melingoi - Wikipedia) with _-ing-_ retained as such. This tribal name seems to have survived in Poland, in a much more phonetically advanced form: _Mlądz<*Mьlędźь<*MilingV _(Mlądz, Lwówek Śląski County - Wikipedia), compare_ ksiądz<kъnędźь<*kuningV _(ksiądz - Wiktionary) and _pieniądz_ (pieniądz - Wiktionary).


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## ahvalj

One last step before the proper reply.

Browsing the book _Wrede F · 1891 · Über die Sprache der Ostgoten in Italien_ (Wrede F · 1891 · Über die Sprache der Ostgoten in Italien.pdf). It deals with the attestations of Ostrogothic names in Italy in the 6th and 7th centuries, almost contemporary with your 8th century. Crimean Goths were Ostrogoths too, so the language must have been almost the same, with only dialectal differences.

Wulfila's _iu_ is very rare:
_Thiudigoto, Tiudigotho _but_ Theodicodo, Theudicodo, Theudigotam_​we mostly find _eu_ and _eo_:
_Euterius
Eutharicus, Eutaricus, Eutarcus, Euthericus, Eutericus, Eotharicus, Autharicus
Hereleuva
Theodahadus, Theodohadus, Theudahadus, Teodohadus, Theodehadus, Theodahatus, 
Theodatus, Theodadus, Theudadus, Theudotus, Theothatus, Teuthadus, Theothadus, Theuthadus, Teodatus, Deodatus, Θευδάτος
Theodegotha
Theodicodo
Theudanus
Θευδέγισκλος
Θευδενάνθῃ
Θευδέριχος, Θεοδώριχος, Θευδερίχ, Theodericus, Teudericus, Theudericus, Teodoricus, Theodoricus, Theoderichus
Θευδιχοῦσα
Λεύδερις
_​The final _-s_ in the Nominative Singular is absent (as I wrote in #2 and contrary to what I suggested in #7):
_Geberic, Geberich, Ghiveric, Giberit
Ruderic, Ruderit
Θευδερίχ

Achiulf
Ediulf
Oduulf
Vultuulf
Γουνδούλφ
Ἰνδούλφ

Herduic

Guduin
Odoin, Oduin
Osuin
Tholuin, Tuluin, Toliuit, Tholuit

Aderit
Frumarith, Frumarit
Landarit
Optarit
Sinderith
Viliarid~Uuiliarit~Guiliarit

Alamud
Ebremud, Evermud, Ἐβριμούθ
Rosemud
Wachimut

Wandil

Anduit

Dumerit
Guderit
Gundirit, Gunderit
Lendarit
Livvirit, Luitfrid, Liuerit
Nanderit
Witterit

Willienant

Vult, Vuld

Blidin, Blindin

Ademunt

Felithanc, Felethanc
Riccitanc

Adiud, Adiut_​_Þ _appears to have voiced intervocalically and often is voiced word-finally (see names above).

P. S. Do you need to mark vowel lengths in Gothic, e. g. should it be _Oswin_ or _Ôswîn?_ If you do in other Germanic languages, I'd suggest to keep the lengths here as well.

P. P. S. Wikipedia searches descendants of Crimean Goths among modern Crimean Tatars, but the Christian population, to which Goths mostly belonged, was evacuated in the second half of the 18th century from Crimea to the northern shore of the Azov sea and is known now as Mariupolitan Greeks (Mariupol Greek - Wikipedia), so the majority of descendants of Crimean Goths, Alans etc. are probably dissolved among this Greek subgroup (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Греки_Приазовя2.jpg).


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## killerbee256

ahvalj said:


> P. S. Do you need to mark vowel lengths in Gothic, e. g. should it be _Oswin_ or _Ôswîn?_ If you do in other Germanic languages, I'd suggest to keep the lengths here as well.


No the game engine can't display most of those marks. The only one that are programed in are those used French, Spanish and most used in Old Norse.(the developers are Swedish)

How should I handle j from biblical Gothic? For instance I've constructed _Helja_ for goddess _Hel_. I suspect the _j _should become an_ i_ based on Old High German and Old Saxon example _Hellia_. Another example is *_auja,_ island. (side note should the au become o in that word? So _oia_ as in Old Saxon?)


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## ahvalj

killerbee256 said:


> How should I handle j from biblical Gothic? For instance I've constructed _Helja_ for goddess _Hel_. I suspect the _j _should become an_ i_ based on Old High German and Old Saxon example _Hellia_. Another example is *_auja,_ island. (side note should the au become o in that word? So _oia_ as in Old Saxon?)


Old High German and Old Saxon didn't have a _j_ letter (e. g. they wrote _iâr_), that's a later addition, so this _i_ before a vowel letter may mean both _j, i_ or a weakening and disappearing outcome of _j_ (especially when it depends on the following vowel like in _sibbea_ but _sibbiu_). Modern Scandinavian retains _-j-_ in appropriate conditions, e. g. _telja_ (telja - Wiktionary), _tredje_ (tredje - Wiktionary). Old Norse, too, writes _i_ in these cases.

_Oja,_ yes. Compare the fate of Wulfila's Gothic _Frauja _(frauja - Wiktionary):


> In one inscription from the Vandal Kingdom, the Christian incantation of _Kyrie eleison_ is given in Vandalic as "Froia arme" ("Lord, have mercy!").[1] The same phrase appears in _Collatio Beati Augustini cum Pascentio ariano_ 15 by Pseudo-Augustine: "Froja armes".[2]



Vandalic language - Wikipedia


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## killerbee256

When I'm starting with a Proto-Germanic word what do I do with _w_? I've noticed some times it remains w like *Wodan or 16th century _Teiw_. But in the example you used in your last post Wulfila's _frauja_; Proto-Germanic _aw_ becomes _au_ then_ o_. But I've encountered strange cases like Proto-Germanic _Bajowarjaz_, Bavaria. The earliest Old High German form _Beiara_ has dropped the _w_ and _o_. I suspect this happened in part because it's a contraction of two words. Should I do the same in Crimean Gothic?


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## ahvalj

killerbee256 said:


> When I'm starting with a Proto-Germanic word what do I do with _w_? I've noticed some times it remains w like *Wodan or 16th century _Teiw_. But in the example you used in your last post Wulfila's _frauja_; Proto-Germanic _aw_ becomes _au_ then_ o_. But I've encountered strange cases like Proto-Germanic _Bajowarjaz_, Bavaria. The earliest Old High German form _Beiara_ has dropped the _w_ and _o_. I suspect this happened in part because it's a contraction of two words. Should I do the same in Crimean Gothic?


The original Proto-Indo-European and later Common Germanic combinations vowel + _w_ were not diphthongs but ordinary juxtapositions of two sounds: their vocalic element generally developed as the same vowel before other sonorants. This situation began to change with the modification (closing and/or monophthongization) of _ai_ and _au_ in the course of the 1st millennium, which for the first time in several millennia created alternations between vowel + _w_ + consonant/coda and vowel + _w_ + vowel.

Additional complexities emerged when syncope reintroduced _w_ at the syllable end, e. g. Late Common Germanic _*xlaı̯waz_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hlaiwaz - Wiktionary) gave Old English _hlēo_ (hleo - Wiktionary), _hlǣw_ (hlæw - Wiktionary) and _hlāw_ (hlaw - Wiktionary); normally in Old English _*ew>ēo_ (_*teu̯đō>þēod_ — Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/þeudō - Wiktionary), but _*þewaz>þēo~þēow_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/þewaz - Wiktionary) with _w_ reintroduced from case forms where it was retained before the vowel (e. g. Gen. Sg. _þēowes,_ where in its turn _ēo_ was introduced from the Nom.~Acc. Sg.).

The fate of these newer diphthongs from _w_ + syncopated vowel depended on the general fate of diphthongs in the language. In Gothic syncope occurred very early and monophthongization postdated it, thus affecting these newer diphthongs as well, e. g. _*nawiz>naus _(Wulfila most probably pronounced _*nôs; _Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/nawiz - Wiktionary). Crimean Gothic almost certainly continued the same trend, so_ *nô. _For not to complicate things, I'd suggest to keep it this way.

In Old Saxon _*au>ō,_ but these newer _a _+ _w_ + syncopated vowel give both _ō_ and _ā _(Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/fawaz - Wiktionary, Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/frawaz - Wiktionary), suggesting that _w_ that had become final due to syncope was stronger than _u_ in the original _a_ + _w_ + consonant and thus withstood regular monophthongization for some time. Also, as in the above Old English examples, paradigmatic leveling may have reintroduced _w, _and we can't be sure which variant would eventually win, e. g. in Dutch _*strawan>stro_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/strawą - Wiktionary) vs. _*xrawaz>rauw_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hrawaz - Wiktionary); English _*knewan>knee_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/knewą - Wiktionary) vs. _*þewaz>thew_ (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/þewaz - Wiktionary).


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## ahvalj

So, finally, my suggestions. So far this is a preliminary list. Will be updating the following days.

Kesar - Emperor
+

Kuning - King
Theudan — cp. _Theudanus_ in #10 and þiudans - Wiktionary; that's actually a higher position than _*kyning_ since þiuda - Wiktionary is "people, nation" while kuni - Wiktionary is "kin"

Haritiuho - Duke
Heritoga — Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/harjatugô - Wiktionary; Nom. Sg. of masculine _n_-stems is _a_ in Gothic; _-ja-_ had shortened into _-i-_ in other languages of this period (herizogo - Wiktionary) and after long syllables already in Wulfila's language (_arbja_ "heir" — arbja - Wiktionary but _arbi·numja_ "heir" — arbinumja - Wiktionary); let's keep _-i- _(not _>e_) at the stem boundary as in Old High German etc.

Grifio/Erl - Count
Grifja — Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/grēfijô - Wiktionary
Eral — *airls < Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/erlaz - Wiktionary

Þegn - Baron
Thegan — (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/þegnaz - Wiktionary), cp. Crimean Gothic _reghen, waghen_

Kesarin - Female Emperor
Kesarini, cp. saurini - Wiktionary, though the feminine suffixes are attested in Wulfila's Gothic very scarcely and are not uniform, cp. also _-i _(þiwi - Wiktionary, frijondi - Wiktionary) and _-o_ (arbjo - Wiktionary, niþjo - Wiktionary)

Kuningin - Female King
Theudano (_þiwi_ and _frijondi_ are formed from consonant stem masculines _þius_ and _frijonds;_ _arbjo_ from an _n_-stem masculine _arbja;_ _niþjo_ from a thematic masculine _niþjis;_ _Saurini_ from an _i_-stem _Saur; þiudans _is a thematic stem too, so let it follow the_ niþjo _pattern)
For the persistence of the feminine _-o_ cp. the Crimean Gothic _ano_ "hen" (ano - Wiktionary and in #7) < _*xanô_

Haritiuhoin - Female Duke
Heritogo (like _arbja→arbjo_)

Grifioin/Erlin - Female Count
Grifjo and Erlo (like _arbja→arbjo_)

Þegnin - Female Baron
Thegno (like _Theudano_)

Grotare Undarkuning - Viceroy Emperor


Undarkuning - Viceroy King


Lutil Undarkuning - Viceroy Duke


Grotare Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy Emperor


Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy King


Lutil Undarkuningin - Viceroy Duke


Hoh Hobiþling - Tribal Duke


Hobiþling - Tribal Count


Hoha Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Duke


Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Count


Forist - Prince
The exact counterpart of the German word would have been *_faurists_>Førist. The real word in Wulfila's Gothic was, however, _frumists _(frumists - Wiktionary), which would have given Frymist; for the preservation of _i_ cp. furisto - Wiktionary
Rik — reiks - Wiktionary, rather "lord"

Foristin - Princess
Føristo or Frymisto

Nurþ - North
the outcome of Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/nurþrą - Wiktionary is not attested, must have been _*naurþr,_ thus Nordar (for _þ>d_ see #10)

Sunþ - South
Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/sunþrą - Wiktionary is not attested too, would have been _*sunþr, _thus Sundar

Ost - East
Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/austrą - Wiktionary > _*austr_ (in _Austrogothi~Ostrogothi_) > Ostar

West - West
Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/westrą - Wiktionary > _*wistr, _thus Westar


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## ahvalj

The second part.

Helag Romisk Rike - Holy Roman Empire
holy is _wih_ (m~n), _wiha_ (f), _wihata (_n) < weihs - Wiktionary and _helag_ (m~n), _helaga_ (f), _helagata_ (n) < hailags - Wiktionary, since other languages have the latter, let's chose Helagata; for the preservation of _-ata _cp. _malthata _and_ warthata _in #7
For "Roman Empire" Gothic Wikipedia uses _Rumonisk reiki,_ a calque of the usage in other Germanic languages, though Wulfila uses _reiki_ in a somewhat special sense (reiki - Wiktionary).
Perhaps Helagata Rumøniskata Riki (if with strong adjectives, cp. Heiliges Römisches Reich – Wikipedia) or Helago Rumønisko Riki (if with weak ones, cp. Heilaga rómverska ríkið - Wikipedia, frjálsa alfræðiritið, Wulfila's Gothic weak neuter ending in Nom.~Acc. Sg. was _-o_)
By the way, this full title with "Holy" is from the 12th century — Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Þiudiskland - Germany(Deutschland)
Wulfila uses iudaialand - Wiktionary and Gothic Bible, Mark chapter 1 for _ἰουδαία χώρα,_ so Theudiskaland (for _eu_ see _Theud-_ in #10).
The final vowel in thematic stems in Wulfila's language sometimes persists (_weina·gards_ "vineyard", _aina·baur_ "first-born", _lausa·waurdi_ "empty talk"), sometimes disappears (_wein·drugkja _"wine-bibber", _ain·falþei_ "simplicity", _laus·handus_ "empty-handed"); since _-skl-_ is a heavy combination, let's retain _-skal- _and overall _-aland _in country names for consistency.

Angululand - England
The Old English word is the umlauted _Enȝaland,_ and ancient authors also have _Ἄγγειλοι~Ἄγγιλοι _(List of ancient Germanic peoples and tribes - Wikipedia) with the expected _i,_ so Engelaland

Skaþenaua - Scandinavia
Skedenoja < Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/Skaþinawjō - Wiktionary, cp. also Oium - Wikipedia, for _d_ see Italian and Crimean Gothic (_broþar>bruder_) examples above

Baurgand - Burgundy
Interestingly, despite being East Germanics, Burgundians (attested with _burg-_) don't show Wulfila's development _*ur>aur_ (baurgs - Wiktionary). Since we're assuming it was a common Gothic change, we must postulate for Crimean Gothic _*Baurgundaland_ > Borgundaland or Borgundo (neuter _n_-stem as below in _Saxo_ etc.)

Danimarka - Danmark
Denimarka (cp. marka - Wiktionary) — Danmǫrk - Wiktionary: _i_ umlauts _a_ in Old English but doesn't do so in Norse: _*katilôz>katlar, *taliđōn>talða; i _is retained at the stem boundary as in _heritoga~heritogo, _cp. an Old High German variant _tenimarkara:_ literally "Denmarkers" (http://www.mlat.uzh.ch/MLS/info_frame.php?w=Danus)

Swehurike/Swehen - Sweden
Sweariki

Nurþwig - Norway
Nordraweg (wigs - Wiktionary), cp. Norþweg - Wiktionary

Frisland - Frisia
Fresaland (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/frisaz - Wiktionary and Freslond - Wiktionary; _i_ seems to have been originally short)

West Frisland - West Frisia
Westrafresaland

Ost Frisland - East Frisia
Ostrafresaland

Baiowaran - Bavaria(Bayern)
Assuming the original form of "Bavarians" is something like _*ƀajawarjôz_ (Bajuwaren – Wikipedia), cp. this root in Icelandic: _Rómverjar_ "Romans" (Flokkur:Rómverjar - Wikivitnun), we get perhaps Bejawerjo or, reduced, Bejerjo (Old High German _Beiara_), neuter _n_-stem

Sweban - Swabia
Swivo (neuter _n_-stem) — from Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/swēbaz - Wiktionary with later Gothic _ē>i_ and _-ƀ->v_

Sahsen - Saxony
Saxo (neuter _n_-stem) — from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstructionroto-Germanic/sahsô

Sunþsahsane - Sussex(Suþseaxe)
Sundrasaxo (neuter _n_-stem), Sundrasaxans (Nom. Pl. as in Old English)

Westsahsane - Wessex(Westseaxna)
Westrasaxo, Westrasaxans

Ostsahsane - Essex(Eastseaxe)
Ostrasaxo, Ostrasaxans

Midlsahsans - Middlesex(Middleseaxan)
The _l_-form (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/midlą - Wiktionary) is not attested, Gothic has the older _j_-form instead (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/midjaz - Wiktionary), so Midisaxo, Midisaxans (cp. Wulfila's _midja·sweipains_ "deluge" — midjasweipains - Wiktionary) with _ja>i_ as in _heritoga_ and _heritogo_ above

Ost Angulans - East Anglia(East Engla)
Ostraengelaland, Ostre Engelos

Iutaland - Jutland
Jotaland

Sibunborgum - Transylvania(Siebenbürgen)
That's a much younger name — since the 13th century (Historical names of Transylvania - Wikipedia). Goths passed through Dacia (Romania in the Early Middle Ages - Wikipedia) and must have had some name for the region west of the mountains. Let it be Hohaland (Caucaland - Wikipedia).

Frankam - Franconia(Franken)
Franko, Frankans

Ostaririke - Austria(Österreich)
Ostrariki

Lutilumborg - Luxembourg
Litelborg (leitils - Wiktionary and baurgs - Wiktionary), though the castle with this name was built in the end of the 10th century (Luxembourg City - Wikipedia), i. e. 100+ years after your target period.

Thoringan - Thuringia(Thüringen)
Thyringo, Thyringans

I open the short _i_ before broader vowels (_Litelborg, Engelaland, Fresaland_), except before _nC_ (_Thyringo_) and in _isk_ (_Theudiskaland_) and _ist_ (_frymist_) — following the pattern found in other Germanic languages and in later Crimean Gothic; and also word-finally — arbitrarily (other languages have fluctuating outcomes).


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## ahvalj

Grotare Undarkuning - Viceroy Emperor
Icelandic, Faroese and Finnish use the element _vara-_ (vara- - Wiktionary), e. g. vice-president of the USA in Icelandic is _varaforseti_ (Varaforseti Bandaríkjanna - Wikipedia, frjálsa alfræðiritið). The Norse word is _vari_ "wariness, precaution", hence the Common Germanic masculine _n_-stem _*warô~warê~warōn~warēn_ (the same root as Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/waraz - Wiktionary) with the expected, though not attested, Gothic continuation _*wara _(there is a related _warei_ "wariness, guarded alertness, wiliness"). The _n_-stems end in _-a-_ in compounds (augadauro - Wiktionary, stauastols - Wiktionary), so we get Wulfila's _*wara-,_ which would have retained its shape to the 8th century. Hence Warakesar.

On the other hand, if these variants with _minder_ you mention in #1 denote not lieutenants but simply intermediate positions in the hierarchy (like _sergeant : junior sergeant_), then we have Wulfila's minniza - Wiktionary > _minniza_ (masculine; minniza - Wiktionary), _minnizi_ (feminine; minnizei - Wiktionary); for the retention of _-i-_ cp. Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/minnizô - Wiktionary. I have not found examples when the Comparative degree was added to another word to form a compound, so perhaps these terms should be kept as simple word-combinations, hence Minniza Kesar. If you prefer compounds, let it be _minnis-_, hence Minniskesar.

Undarkuning - Viceroy King
Waratheudan, Minniza Theudan, Minnistheudan

Lutil Undarkuning - Viceroy Duke
Waraheritoga, Minniza Heritoga, Minnisheritoga

Grotare Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy Emperor
Warakesarini, Minnizi Kesarini, Minniskesarini

Undarkuningin - Female Viceroy King
Waratheudano, Minnizi Theudano, Minnistheudano

Lutil Undarkuningin - Viceroy Duke
Waraheritogo, Minnizi Heritogo, Minnisheritogo

Hoh Hobiþling - Tribal Duke
Apparently a counterpart of heafodling - Wiktionary, with Wulfila's Gothic elements haubiþ - Wiktionary and -liggs - Wiktionary, hence _hoved _or_ hovod_ (Crimean Gothic _hoef,_ see in #6, with no umlaut, so perhaps from the _u_-variant: Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/haubudą - Wiktionary) + _-(i)ling,_ hence _Hovodling,_ hence Hoh Hovodling (there could be an umlaut from _-iling_ as in German Häuptling - Wiktionary, but let's keep it simple). Alternatively, you may prefer the variant without _-l-_ as in the Norse _hǫfðingi_ (höfðingi - Wiktionary, this _ö_ is not an umlaut, since _*ö>e_ in Old Icelandic and the modern Icelandic _ö<ǫ_), then Hoh Hovoding
Also, the adjective could have been in a weak form, then Hoha Hovodling or Hoha Hovoding

Hobiþling - Tribal Count
Hovodling or Hovoding

Hoha Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Duke
Hoh Hovodlingo, Hoh Hovodingo, Hoh Hovodlingjo or Hoh Hovodingjo (here _-jo_ is another variant of the feminine suffix)
(with a weak adjective it will be Hoho)

Hobiþlingin - Female Tribal Count
Hovodlingo, Hovodingo, Hovodlingjo or Hovodingjo

The above two posts with my suggestions have been finalized. I only have thought that perhaps _Engelaland_ would shorten into Engeland, and accordingly Ostraengeland

Additional Wulfila's words with the feminine _-o:_ qino - Wiktionary "woman", haiþno - Wiktionary "heatheness", widuwo - Wiktionary "widow", swaihro - Wiktionary "mother-in-law", mawilo - Wiktionary "girl" (all feminine _n_-stems).


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## killerbee256

I finally got these interrogated. My next move is to start with England as I have a source on British Toponymy. I'll post those when I get a sizable amount created.


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## ahvalj

Old English historical phonetics is a nightmare: in the amount of changes, the dialectal diversity, and overall irregularity of many resulting forms. I perhaps won’t be able to produce reliable results… By the way, what we see in manuals and dictionaries is late Old English, of the end of the millennium.

P. S. A correction to my above post: _ö_>_e_ is the change that occurred between Old and Modern Icelandic.


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## killerbee256

ahvalj said:


> Old English historical phonetics is a nightmare: in the amount of changes, the dialectal diversity, and overall irregularity of many resulting forms. I perhaps won’t be able to produce reliable results… By the way, what we see in manuals and dictionaries is late Old English, of the end of the millennium.
> 
> P. S. A correction to my above post: _ö_>_e_ is the change that occurred between Old and Modern Icelandic.


I know what you mean, place names recorded 10 years apart can be wildly different because the origin of the scribe and choices they made. But the source I have A Dictionary of British Place-Names, simplifies it well enough here is an random example or two. One small annoyance is that the author A. D. Mills used a different standard of old English than Wiktionary which means I need to search a little to find the proto Germanic.


> Kiddington Oxon. Chidintone 1086 (DB). ‘Estate associated with a man called Cydda’.
> OE pers. name + -ing- + tūn.





> Droitwich Worcs. Wich 1086 (DB), Drihtwych 1347. ‘Dirty or muddy saltworks’. OE wīc
> with the later addition of OE drit ‘dirt’.


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