# 海水朝朝朝朝朝朝朝落，浮云长长长长长长长消



## bwuw

Help!

How would you translate this 对联？ I was also wondering, is there any interesting website about 对联？I cant' find any.
谢谢大家！

B


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## HongKonger

I found it from:
http://www.51test.net/show/1492868.html

Sea-water tide，day-to-day tide，every-day tide and every-day ebb.海浪涨潮，天天涨潮，天天涨潮，又天天退潮。
    Floating-clouds appear，often appear，often appear and often go漂浮的云出现了，经常出现，经常出现，又经常消失。


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## Bertrand_Jin

我靠。。。我是个中国人，然后这个对联我都不怎么断的好句。。。


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## vvujun

这个对联似乎并不严谨，朝不等于潮吧！关于长长的对联，似乎是出自一个豆腐坊。上联是：长长长长长长长；下联也是：长长长长长长长。但是读法不一样。


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## Lucia_zwl

Can this couplet be translated? I wonder...
I think it's meaningless to translate it word by word, what I can do is to explain it:

This couplet just plays a word-game. Both 朝 and长are polyphonic, and people can read it differently by putting pause in different place.
朝, when pronounced as [chao2], it means "*the tide*"(潮); when pronounced as [zhao1], it means "*the day*".
长, when pronounced as [chang2], it means "*long*", and also "*always*"(常); when pronounced as [zhang3], it means “*to increase, to be more*”(涨).
The couplet as a whole means that, the tide goes up and down everyday, the cloud always becomes more and then less.


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## Ghabi

vvujun said:


> 这个对联似乎并不严谨，朝不等于潮吧 ...


The use of punning in couplets is a well-established practice in classical Chinese poetry, known as 借對. However, I don't think we need to resort to punning to explain the couplet in question.


Lucia_zwl said:


> 朝, when pronounced as [chao2], it means "*the tide*"(潮); when pronounced as [zhao1], it means "*the day*".
> 长, when pronounced as [chang2], it means "*long*", and also "*always*"(常); when pronounced as [zhang3], it means “*to increase, to be more*”(涨).


Personally I don't find it necessary to read 朝 as 潮 chao2 "tide" here. 朝 chao2 "to visit (someone superior)", as in 朝拜/朝謁, makes perfect sense here. It's actually how the ancient etymologists explain the word 潮 (cf. here, especially the words 朝宗于海,謂海水來朝見尊禮也), applying the practice known as 聲訓 "punning definition".

Similarly, we don't need to gloss 長 as 漲. 長 zhang3 "to grow" makes perfect senses when talking about clouds (cf. the line 盪胸生層雲 by 杜甫) 

So the whole thing can be interpreted as (n=noun; v=verb; a=adverb):

海水n朝v 朝朝a朝v 朝a朝v朝a落v "the tide comes; it comes everyday; everyday it comes and everyday it goes"
浮雲n長v 長長a長v 長a長v長a消v "the cloud forms; it forms constantly; constantly it forms and constantly it dissolves"

There's always room for other interpretations, of course.


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## BODYholic

Lucia_zwl said:


> 长, when pronounced as [chang2], it means "*long*", and also "*always*"(常);



I don't think 长 carries the meaning of 常, at least in this particular context.
(云)长长-长 = The cloud forms an elongated shape. (i.e.云长得                                                              很长                                                             很长的)
(云)常常-长 = The clouds grow. (i.e. 云频频的膨胀变大)


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## Zhi

Attention everybody! Here comes the definitive answer to the OP's second question! mua-hahahaha

http://duilian.msra.cn/app/couplet.aspx (Btw It's developed by 微软亚洲研究院，therefor it requires INTERNET EXPLORER !)


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## Youngfun

The original version was 云朝朝朝朝朝朝朝朝散；潮长长长长长长长长消 written by 王十朋 in 温州江心寺. 
See here.


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## Youngfun

BODYholic said:


> I don't think 长 carries the meaning of 常, at least in this particular context.
> (云)长长-长 = The cloud forms an elongated shape. (i.e.云长得                                                              很长                                                             很长的)
> (云)常常-长 = The clouds grow. (i.e. 云频频的膨胀变大)


Would "长长-长" be interpreted as "长得                                                              很长                                                              很长的" in Classical Chinese? 
In my opinion it means 常常 since the first sentence says 朝朝 (zhao1zhao1 = every day).


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## retrogradedwithwind

Youngfun said:


> Would "长长-长" be interpreted as "长得                                                              很长                                                              很长的" in Classical Chinese?
> In my opinion it means 常常 since the first sentence says 朝朝 (zhao1zhao1 = every day).



不考虑对仗的话，应该是可能的。参考：高升


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## Ditundat

有些文字，比如和音律有关的，和习惯说法有关的等等，真的不能翻译，更不能一字一字的对照着翻译。如果真的要翻译的话，只能是再创作了。
我们可以阅读中文翻译的外国诗歌和诗歌的原本，绝大多数需要认真的再次创作，这个时候，会失去原文的音律上的和谐等等。

回到这个对联。我个人以为，外国（譬如英文和德文）当代文字几乎没有有这样的讲究词句的对仗音律的对仗的文字，而且在音律上的对仗方式也各有不同，因此我们没有任何办法做圆满的对联翻译的。


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## Ditundat

我的看法，

Ocean tide every day, tide still tide day after day, came while 's gone.
Drift cloud grows every time, grows always grows time to time, grew while 's disappear


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