# gerund



## kindlychung

De bank wordt gerund door kobolden.

I assume "gerund" comes from the English "run"? How do you pronounce this kind of words? 
I can think of one more: "geliked op facebook".


----------



## YellowOnline

The 'ge-' like always in Dutch. The English part is usually pronounced like in English. Older loanwords, like gebasketbald, are fully pronounced the Dutch way.


----------



## Kriem

Ik zou trouwens 'kobolds' zeggen.


----------



## Ben Jamin

kindlychung said:


> De bank wordt gerund door kobolden.
> 
> I assume "gerund" comes from the English "run"? .



Nope. The word comes from Latin. 
The English have just only cut off the ending "-ium".


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> Nope. The word comes from Latin.
> The English have just only cut off the ending "-ium".



We did not did not take it up from the Romans. The Romans themselves did not have such a word. 

Ik maak van de gelegenheid gebruik om er de aandacht op te trekken dat wij en de Engelsen het woord run op dezelfde manier uitspreken, behalve de meesten van ons met de tong-r en zij allemaal met de gekrulde-r.


----------



## Ben Jamin

eno2 said:


> We did not did not take it up from the Romans. The Romans themselves did not have such a word.
> 
> Ik maak van de gelegenheid gebruik om er de aandacht op te trekken dat wij en de Engelsen het woord run op dezelfde manier uitspreken, behalve de meesten van ons met de tong-r en zij allemaal met de gekrulde-r.


I didn't say it came from the Romans, i said it came from Latin.


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> I didn't say it came from the Romans, i said it came from Latin.


What did the Romans speak in Rome? It doesn't come from the Latin. How are you going to substantiate your bizarre claim for "run-ium"?


----------



## bibibiben

Dutch _gerund _is the past participle of _runnen_. _Runnen _comes straight from English _to run_.

Dutch _gerundium (_English: _gerund)_ has nothing to do with _runnen_. This term is borrowed from Latin. _Gerundium_ is not that commonly used in Dutch. The more usual term is _verbaal substantief_.

As a term in English grammar, _gerund _can be translated _ing-vorm _in Dutch. This rather lazy translation will most likely pop up when the writer can't be bothered to make a difference between _present continuous tense_ and _gerund_.


----------



## Ben Jamin

eno2 said:


> What did the Romans speak in Rome?


I suppose they spoke Latin.


eno2 said:


> It doesn't come from the Latin.


So, from what language does it come?



eno2 said:


> How are you going to substantiate your bizarre claim for "run-ium"?


I don't understand this question. Where did you take "run-ium" from?


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> I don't understand this question. Where did you take "run-ium" from?







Ben Jamin said:


> Nope. The word comes from Latin.
> The English have just only cut off the ending "-ium".


----------



## Ben Jamin

And where did you get "run" from?


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> And where did you get "run" from?


From Kindlychung. Are you kidding?


----------



## eno2

> the modern verb TO RUN is a merger of two related Old English words, in both of which the first letters sometimes switched places. The first is intransitive rinnan, irnan "to run, flow, run together" (past tense ran, past participle runnen), cognate with Middle Dutch runnen, Old Saxon, Old High German, Gothic rinnan, German rinnen "to flow, run."



So run is a cognate and comes from Old German.


----------



## eno2

bibibiben said:


> Dutch _gerund _is the past participle of _runnen_. _Runnen _comes straight from English _to run_.
> 
> Dutch _gerundium (_English: _gerund)_ has nothing to do with _runnen_. This term is borrowed from Latin. _Gerundium_ is not that commonly used in Dutch. The more usual term is _verbaal substantief_.
> 
> As a term in English grammar, _gerund _can be translated _ing-vorm _in Dutch. This rather lazy translation will most likely pop up when the writer can't be bothered to make a difference between _present continuous tense_ and _gerund_.



Het voorbeeld van de draadopener laat geen dubbelzinnigheid toe. Het gaat over een bank runnen.  En het titelwoord "gerund" is geen Engels, maar Nederlands. Niets te maken met "gerundium" dus. Maar ik begrijp nu dat Ben Jamin blijkbaar verkeerdelijk bezig was over gerund-ium. Wel van Latijnse oorsprong, haha.


----------



## bibibiben

Come on, Ben Jamin, is it that hard to admit that you're mistaken?


----------



## Ben Jamin

eno2 said:


> From Kindlychung. Are you kidding?





eno2 said:


> From Kindlychung. Are you kidding?


No, I'm not. Are you?
The English took Latin "Gerundium",  cut off the -ium ending and got "gerund". So I'm asking you again, where did you see "run" or "run-ium"  in my post?
Why are you inventing things to criticise them?


----------



## Ben Jamin

bibibiben said:


> Come on, Ben Jamin, is it that hard to admit that you're mistaken?


Mistaken in what?


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> Mistaken in what?


See previous post of Bibibiben and myself. You must be kidding. Or worse.


----------



## bibibiben

Ben Jamin said:


> Mistaken in what?


You failed to see that the Dutch past participle _gerund _is not related to the English noun _gerund _or the Latin noun _gerundium_.


----------



## eno2

Ben Jamin said:


> No, I'm not. Are you?
> The English took Latin "Gerundium",  cut off the -ium ending and got "gerund". So I'm asking you again, where did you see "run" or "run-ium"  in my post?
> Why are you inventing things to criticise them?


You're entirely beside the point with your Latin -ium ending. The English word "Gerund" (as you rightly take it to be of Latin origen)  is just not on issue here. The word "Gerund"  in the title is Dutch and not English and means "managed" . As shown unequivocally in the example of the opening post.  You can cling to your misunderstanding if you like.


----------



## bibibiben

Overigens wil ik ook nog kwijt dat een zin als _De bank wordt gerund door kobolden_ mij in lachen heeft doen uitbarsten. De combinatie van het niet algemeen gebruikte _kobold _met het nogal gemeenzame _gerund _creëert op de een of andere manier een nogal komisch effect!

Verder: volgens Van Dale kan _kobold_ in het meervoud zowel _kobolds _als _kobolden _zijn.


----------



## YellowOnline

Ben Jamin said:


> Nope. The word comes from Latin.
> The English have just only cut off the ending "-ium".



What a hilarious understanding!

This thread is about the Dutch conjugation of the English verb "to run" -> "hij runde", "hij heeft gerund", which has nothing to do with the English homograph noun "gerund" (that indeed comes from Latin, but that is totally irrelevant here).


----------



## bibibiben

kindlychung said:


> De bank wordt gerund door kobolden.
> 
> I assume "gerund" comes from the English "run"? How do you pronounce this kind of words?



The standard pronunciation would be [ɣəʀʏnt] or [ɣərʏnt]. Mixing in an English pronunciation (i.e. [ɣəɹʌnt]) would no doubt sound rather unnatural to most people's ears.


----------



## eno2

bibibiben said:


> The standard pronunciation would be [ɣəʀʏnt] or [ɣərʏnt]. Mixing in an English pronunciation (i.e. [ɣəɹʌnt]) would no doubt sound rather unnatural to most people's ears.



Voer voor fonetici.
Ik moest even gaan checken op http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klankinventaris_van_het_Nederlands#Uitspraak_van_r
Moeilijk. Mijn eigen simpele benadering staat in #5


----------



## YellowOnline

bibibiben said:


> The standard pronunciation would be [ɣəʀʏnt] or [ɣərʏnt]. Mixing in an English pronunciation (i.e. [ɣəɹʌnt]) would no doubt sound rather unnatural to most people's ears.



I agree with this. [ɣərʏnt] is standard, with some local variations for [ɣ] and for [r].


----------

