# Schokolade / Chocolade



## perpend

Chocolade -- Is that okay in Swiss German? Is it okay in German at all?

Source: I read it on a package, and it struck me as wrong, but I have no other reason to believe that the text is incorrect. I no longer have the package.

My deduction was that it's Swiss German, for lack of a better explanation.


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## Demiurg

Die Bezeichnung "Chocolade" statt "Schokolade" soll ein besonders edles Produkt suggerieren. Entsprechend hoch ist dann auch der Preis.


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## perpend

Thanks, Demiurg! Why would the price be higher for "Chocolade"?


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## bearded

Ich denke, Chocolade ist eine 'edlere' Schreibweise, denn sie erinnert an Französisch 'Chocolat' (also exotisch, deshalb besser..).


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## perpend

Parts of Italy border on both France and Switzerland, bearded. Not to mention Austria, but I've never heard of great "Austrian Chocolate".

I digress: Wieso "Chocolade"? Was soll "edel/exotisch" daran sein"?


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## Schimmelreiter

One of mankind's common idiocies is the assumption that _things were better in the past_, e.g. at a time when _Schokolade _was spelt _​Chocolade._


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## Demiurg

In Deutschland verwenden Edelmarken wie beispielsweise Lindt, Hachez oder Feodora den Begriff "Chocolade".

Im Vergleich zum ordinären deutschen Wort "Schokolade" sieht "Chocolade" eben ungewöhnlich ("exotisch") aus.


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## perpend

Thanks again, Demiurg. That suffices. I see what you mean, and that's all I need to know!

Much appreciated!


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## bearded

perpend said:


> Parts of Italy border on both France and Switzerland, bearded. Not to mention Austria, but I've never heard of great "Austrian Chocolate".
> 
> I digress: Wieso "Chocolade"? Was soll "edel/exotisch" daran sein"?


I did not express myself clearly enough, perhaps. What I meant is that, if you add to a domestic product an exotic (or ancient, as SR surmises) 'flavour', then the product itself becomes better - in many people's mind - and therefore can be sold at a higher price - in the producer's mind.  The 'exotic=edel' part was the writing _Choco_ instead of _Schoko._ (Every exotic modification in writing = 1Euro extra).


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## perpend

Mensch. If I buy "Chocolade" instead of "Schokolade, it's EUR 1,0 more? Hilfe(-schrei)! Wucherpreise.


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## bearded

perpend said:


> Mensch. If I buy "Chocolade" instead of "Schokolade, it's EUR 1,0 more? Hilfe(-schrei)! Wucherpreise.


 But they just tell you the final higher price, without letting you know that it would be cheaper if it wasn't exotic!


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## perpend

Hmmm ... dann müsste man im Prinzip mit einen Zettel zum Markt gehen, wenn mann stumm ist.

M) Ich will 100 Gramm Schokolade.
N) Ich will 100 Gramm Chocolade.

M) kommt billiger weg?


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> I did not express myself clearly enough, perhaps. What I meant is that, if you add to a domestic product an exotic (*or ancient, as SR surmises*) 'flavour', then the product itself becomes better - in many people's mind - and therefore can be sold at a higher price - in the producer's mind.  The 'exotic=edel' part was the writing _Choco_ instead of _Schoko._ (Every exotic modification in writing = 1Euro extra).


Why "surmise"? _Chocolade_ *is* the traditional German spelling of the word. The modern spelling only started to become popular after the spelling reform of 1901. After that time both spellings existed side by side and the new spelling managed to marginalize the old one only after WWII.


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## bearded

Thank you, berndf, I was not fully aware of that.
Anyhow, my 'surmises' was due to my uncertainty as to whether _choco_ instead of _schoko_ refers to the original German spelling or rather to a modern french-like(exotic) orthography. But as you say, Schimmelreiter refers to the original spelling, and he is most probably right.


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## AndrasBP

*Moderator note*: Thread merged with existing one. 

Hello!

I've got a bar of Swiss chocolate that says "feinschmelzende dunkle *Choco*lade".
As far as I know, "Schokolade" is the normal German spelling.
Is "Chocolade" an old-fashioned or a Swiss German version?


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## Gernot Back

AndrasBP said:


> Is "Chocolade" an old-fashioned or a Swiss German version?


Both, but not even canoo.net, based in Basel, Switzerland, lists that spelling!


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## Frieder

It's a spelling from times of yore which is meant to convey tradition and quality. I just found it in my _Handbuch der Fremdwörter_ by F.A. Weber from 1870:

Chocolade, Chocolate: die aus Cacaobohnen, Zucker und Gewürz bereitete Masse; das aus dieser Masse bereitete Getränk.​


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## AndrasBP

Thank you for the explanation! I suppose it's just a French-influenced form which isn't commonly used anymore.


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## berndf

AndrasBP said:


> Thank you for the explanation! I suppose it's just a French-influenced form which isn't commonly used anymore.


It is that producer that keeps the old spelling as it is still in the official name of the company (_Chocoladenfabriken Lindt und Sprüngli_). It shows tradition.


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## AndrasBP

Yes, it is indeed a Lindt und Sprüngli bar. In the "Zutaten" section they also use "Schokolade".


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## Gernot Back

AndrasBP said:


> Yes, it is indeed a Lindt und Sprüngli bar. In the "Zutaten" section they also use "Schokolade".


But that doesn't mean anything:
Whenever I see the ingredients list of any jam, jelly or marmalade, it says "Citronensäure" although that is a very dated spelling, to put it mildly! This is probably because ingredients have to be a strict subset of all the allowed food ingredients in some EU standard, and even if there is a clear typo like in the case of _Citronensäure_, producers keep copying it anyway, just to exactly match the term, just to be on the safe side.


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## Kajjo

Gernot Back said:


> Citronensäure


Sorry, no, it's not!

It is the only chemically correct German IUPAC spelling. Only in everyday German you might write "Zitronensäure". In chemistry "Citronensäure" is taught.


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## Gernot Back

Kajjo said:


> In chemistry "Citronensäure" is taught.


I don't see any point in deviating from standard language in technical language as far as spelling is concerned, especially if there is no difference in pronunciation whatsoever. There is no such thing as _Citrone_ in German, so why should there be any such thing as _Citronensäure?_ These "technical" spellings of _Schokolade _or _Zitronensäure _respectively are simply chichi!


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## Frieder

Gernot Back said:


> so why should there be any such thing as _Citronensäure?_


Because Zitronensäure is is the sourness of lemons while Citronensäure is 2-Hydroxypropan-1,2,3-tricarbonsäure.


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## Kajjo

@Gernot: Die Frucht heißt Zitrone, der chemische Stoff heißt Citronensäure. So ist nun einmal die Übereinkunft und auf Zutatenlisten werden chemische Stoffe halt nach offizieller Nomenklatur genannt. 

Das Wort Citronensäure ist ja auch kein Alltagswort, sondern eben eine Chemikalie, ein Zusatzstoff. Ich finde es vollkommen normal, dass entsprechende, gesetzlich regulierte Zusatzstoffe auch einem amtlichen Sprachgebrauch unterliegen.


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## berndf

I think the opinions on Citronensäure/Zitronensäure are clear now. Could we slowly find our way back to the topic of the thread (chocolate)?


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## Kajjo

Sorry, we got adrift.

I guess, the main issue has been handled.


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