# Conditio sine qua non



## cla07

Is there a good translation for the Latin expression "conditio sine qua non", very common in Italian and meaning "inalienable condition"?

Claudia


----------



## brian

Hi Claudia,

This is a legal term, and translated literally means: _a condition without which not = a condition without which "it" could not be_...

...whatever "it" may refer to in said legal document.  It refers to some important, essential, indismissable piece of information on which something (the "it") relies, and without which would not be.  But I'm sure you gather that from the Italian usage, which I assume is the same.

As with most legal phrases in Latin, people don't translate them but instead quote them directly.  In this case the _conditio_ is often left out, making it: _sine qua non_.


Brian


----------



## Whodunit

What surprises me is that it is always written "conditio." From what I've been told, I consider "condi*t*io" a misspelling of "condi*c*io." Brian, do you agree?


----------



## brian

Yes, you're quite right, Daniel.  Classical Latin (particularly Cicero) would certainly have _condi*c*io_ - from _con (cum) + dicere_.  It's funny that the word went from _condi*c*io  condi*t*io  condi*z*ione_(It.).   Of course, in English we still say _condi*t*ion._  I may be wrong, but I believe the incorrect version was brought about by a number of manuscipt errors over the years until eventually it become more or less the standard, I suppose.  Had that not happened, I wonder if today we'd be saying _condiction_ in English...


----------



## cla07

Whodunit said:
			
		

> What surprises me is that it is always written "conditio." From what I've been told, I consider "condi*t*io" a misspelling of "condi*c*io." Brian, do you agree?


 
You're right: in the Italian book I am translating into English they wrote "condi*t*io" but in my Latin vocabulary there is written "condi*c*io" (Campanini/Carboni). Actually, we also define "par condi*c*io" the law ruling the equal access to mass media by political parties, so I should have known! 

Claudia


----------



## cla07

So, Brian, I may either use "condi*c*io sine qua non" (do Americans understand me if I use it? That was my doubt. In Italy we would...) or use, for instance, "precondition". Am I right?

Claudia


----------



## brian

I would say it depends on the cirumstances of your translation.  That is, if what you translating deals specifically with a legal matter (or is a legal document) and/or whoever reads it has knowledge of legal terminology, then you can certainly leave it as _conditio sine qua non_ (I would leave it "t" since that's the norm, however wrongfully and unfortunately so).  Anyone with a good knowledge of Latin legal terminology would understand it.

Of course, if your reader would have no idea what that means, then you could certainly say that _XX, a conditio sine qua non = XX, a necessary precondition (without which such and such could not be)_.

But again, it's a standard term here in the U.S. too, as far as I can tell.


----------



## lazarus1907

If I am not mistaken, it comes from "condicio, condicionis" In Spanish we say "condición sine qua non", where the first word in modern Spanish (so we don't have to argue about it  ). Maybe people do the same in English: Say "condition" first, and then use the Latin expression.

An example from my Oxford dictionary: "...they require them, not as adequate causes, but as sine quâ non conditions."


----------



## cla07

brian8733 said:
			
		

> I would say it depends on the cirumstances of your translation. That is, if what you translating deals specifically with a legal matter (or is a legal document) and/or whoever reads it has knowledge of legal terminology, then you can certainly leave it as _conditio sine qua non_ (I would leave it "t" since that's the norm, however wrongfully and unfortunately so). Anyone with a good knowledge of Latin legal terminology would understand it.
> 
> Of course, if your reader would have no idea what that means, then you could certainly say that _XX, a conditio sine qua non = XX, a necessary precondition (without which such and such could not be)_.
> 
> But again, it's a standard term here in the U.S. too, as far as I can tell.


 

Dear Brian,
as usual a biiiig THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!  
Claudia


----------



## brian

You're very welcome, as always. 

Lazarus, that's a fine example.  As I suspected, and which I noted above, the _conditio_ part is often left out of the Latin, but what I didn't know is that it would allow for _sine qua non_ to act adjectivally with the English "condition(s)."  I like that usage a lot actually.

So that would make my example something like: _XX, (being) a sine qua non condition, ..._


b.


----------



## cla07

brian8733 said:
			
		

> You're very welcome, as always.
> 
> Lazarus, that's a fine example. As I suspected, and which I noted above, the _conditio_ part is often left out of the Latin, but what I didn't know is that it would allow for _sine qua non_ to act adjectivally with the English "condition(s)." I like that usage a lot actually.
> 
> So that would make my example something like: _XX, (being) a sine qua non condition, ..._
> 
> 
> b.


 
GREAT! I love this solution!!!    Thanks again,  Claudia


----------



## lazarus1907

brian8733 said:
			
		

> So that would make my example something like: _XX, (being) a sine qua non condition, ..._


It is used pretty much like any other adjective, I think. You can talk about _cause a sine qua non,_ a _sine qua non ingredient_, etc.


----------



## jazyk

And condiciones sine quibus non!


----------



## cla07

A big thank to all of you, Lazarus, Brian and Whodunit!

Claudia


----------



## cajzl

Another common misspelling: pronun*c*iation (from nuntius)

But these words were misspelled by the Romans, probably due to the fact that the pronun*t*iation of _*ti+vowel*_ and _*ci+vowel*_ was the same (in some period).

There is also condi*t*io from condio (condire, conditum)


----------

