# Pronunciation: the alphabet



## LoveVanPersie

I wonder if pronunciations of Catalan letters' names on English Wikipedia are completely correct? Could anyone help to check them?
Especially those of _jota _/ˈʒ*ɔ*tə/, _erre_ /ˈ*ɛ*rə/ (which Wiktionary transcribes /ˈ*e*rə/), _zeta_ /ˈz*e*tə/ (which Wiktionary transcribes /ˈz*ɛ*tə/ in Eastern Catalan).
Thank you very much!!!


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## Dymn

Wiktionary is correct. Also, _e_ and _o_ are mid-open. So:

_e_ /ɛ/
_o_ /ɔ/
_r_ /ˈerə/
_z_ /ˈzɛtə/


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## LoveVanPersie

Really appreciate your help!
And have you heard standard Catalan speakers pronounce _zeta_ as /ˈz*e*tə/? That's also what DCVB transcribes it.


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## Dymn

Not that I remember. Some (especially older) may say /ˈsɛtə/, but that's another kettle of fish. I've always heard it /ɛ/.


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## Doraemon-

There's a small mistake in the Valencian pronounciation. There are three variants accepted, not two, for:
f: ef /'ef/, efe /'efe/ and efa /'efa/
l: el /'el/, ele /'ele/ and ela /'ela/
m: em /'em/, eme /'eme/ and ema /'ema/
n: en /'en/, ene /'ene/ and ema /'ema/
r: er /'er/, erre /'ere/ and erra /'era/
s: es /'es/, ese /'ese/ and esa /'esa/
Personally I always use the one ending in -a.

Also in the catalan pronounciation, please notice that it's written only in the eastern pronounciation, not in the western one, which has no vowel reduction nor neutral e (schwa) (/ˈɛra/, /ˈɛma/, /ˈzeta/, /ˈi ˈɡɾeɡa/...)


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## LoveVanPersie

Thank a lot Doraemon-!


Doraemon- said:


> /ˈɛra/, /ˈɛma/


Wiktionary transcribes their occidental Catalan pronunciations as /ˈ*e*ra/, /ˈ*e*ma/. Which are correct?


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## Doraemon-

LoveVanPersie said:


> Wiktionary transcribes their occidental Catalan pronunciations as /ˈ*e*ra/, /ˈ*e*ma/. Which are correct?


Yours: /ˈ*e*ra/, /ˈ*e*ma/, as I had put in the Valencian pronounciations. I just changed the last /ə/ to /a/ from the table and I forgot to change this.


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## tenienteramires

Doraemon- said:


> There's a small mistake in the Valencian pronounciation. There are three variants accepted, not two, for:
> f: ef /'ef/, efe /'efe/ and efa /'efa/
> l: el /'el/, ele /'ele/ and ela /'ela/
> m: em /'em/, eme /'eme/ and ema /'ema/
> n: en /'en/, ene /'ene/ and ema /'ema/
> r: er /'er/, erre /'ere/ and erra /'era/
> s: es /'es/, ese /'ese/ and esa /'esa/
> Personally I always use the one ending in -a.
> 
> Also in the catalan pronounciation, please notice that it's written only in the eastern pronounciation, not in the western one, which has no vowel reduction nor neutral e (schwa) (/ˈɛra/, /ˈɛma/, /ˈzeta/, /ˈi ˈɡɾeɡa/...)



In Eastern Catalan, the names 'el', 'ele' and 'ela' are pronounced [ˈeɫ], [ˈe.ɫe] and [ˈe.ɫa], with a velarised L [ɫ], as in all catalan dialects.

Actually yes, the name of the letters F, L, M, N, R and S can be the traditional (and oldest) one: ef, el, em, en, er, es (not used so much nowadays), the Spanish one: efe, ele, eme, ene, erre esse (the most used one in spoken Western Catalan) and the catalanised forms of Spanish names: efa, ela, ema, ena, erra, essa (the most used one in spoken Eastern Catalan and the only one accepted by the IEC). I personally use the classical names (ef, el, em, en, er, es), which I think must be restored in spoken Catalan.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for everyone's answer!
Are _e_ and _o_ also pronounced /ɛ/ and /ɔ/, instead of /e/ and /o/, in occidental Catalan? _Diccionari normatiu valencià_ transcribes them /e/ and /o/.


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> Thanks for everyone's answer!
> Are _e_ and _o_ also pronounced /ɛ/ and /ɔ/, instead of /e/ and /o/, in occidental Catalan? _Diccionari normatiu valencià_ transcribes them /e/ and /o/.



_Diccionari normatiu valencià _shows the standard recommended Valencian pronunciation, it can vary from region to region, but all vowels that are shown there are correct for standard pronunciation of ALL western (occidental) Catalan dialects.

The pronunciation given in the Diccionari normatiu valencià is the most general pronunciation in valencian dialects and the one considered most standard here in the Valencian Country, but you can use it as well for all the other Western Catalan varieties. There are things that can vary between western dialects, like final -r, that is not pronounced everywhere (in my Tortosí dialect I don't pronounce it) or final clusters (nasal + plosive), but fortunately Western Catalan is very unified.


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## LoveVanPersie

Get it. Thanks!
Forget to ask, is _enya_, the name of <ny>, pronounced with /ˈe/ or /ˈɛ/?


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## Dymn

/e/. And _ella _with /e/ too.


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## tenienteramires

The digraph NY is called "ena i grega" (or "ene i grega" and "en i grega"), not "enya" (which is, actually, the name for the letter Ñ, not used in Catalan)

Those are the name of the letters:

A: a
B: be (or "be alta")
C: ce
D: de
E: e
F: efa/efe/ef
G: ge
H: hac
I: i
J: jota
K: ca
L: ela/ele/el
M: ema/eme/em
N: ena/ene/en
O: o
P: pe
Q: cu
R: erra/erre/er
S: essa/esse/es
T: te
U: u
V: ve (or "ve baixa")
W: ve doble
X: ics (or "xeix")
Y: i grega
Z: zeta

Those are the names of the digraphs and modified letters:

Ç: ce trencada
GU: ge u
IG: i ge
LL: ela doble (or "ele doble" and "el doble") 
L·L: ela geminada (or "ele geminada" and "el geminada") 
NY: ena i grega (or "ene i grega" and "en i grega") 
QU: cu u
RR: erra doble (or "erre doble" and "er doble") 
SS: essa doble (or "esse doble" and "es doble")
TG: te ge
TJ: te jota
TX: te ics
TZ: te zeta


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks


tenienteramires said:


> The digraph NY is called "ena i grega" (or "ene i grega" and "en i grega"), not "enya" (which is, actually, the name for the letter Ñ, not used in Catalan)


But DCVB and Wikipedia recognize the name _enya_.


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## tenienteramires

DCVB is a descriptive dictionary, it doesn't say what is standard or not, it contains all the words that were in use at that time, dialectalisms, archaisms, hispanisms... Wikipedia is wrong sometimes and must be edited in order to give the correct information.


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## LoveVanPersie

Can <tx> also be called _te xeix_?
I have seen on Wikipedia that there is an alternative name for _z_, _itzeta_, is it in use? If so, how is it pronounced?


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## Dymn

LoveVanPersie said:


> Can <tx> also be called _te xeix_?


Yes, why not?

But nobody uses _xeix_. I learned about it in Catalan class and not as a synonym for the letter but to talk about the two (actually three) sounds that can take the letter: /ʃ/ (_el so de xeix) _and /ks/ or /gz/ (_el so d'ics_).


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> Can <tx> also be called _te xeix_?
> I have seen on Wikipedia that there is an alternative name for _z_, _itzeta_, is it in use? If so, how is it pronounced?



You can call it "te xeix", but nobody says that actually. The name "xeix" is a synonim of "ics", but very few people use it except for specifying that it makes the sound [ʃ]. "Itzeta" is another name for the letter Z, but nobody uses it anymore.


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## LoveVanPersie

Cannot thank you enough!


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## LoveVanPersie

tenienteramires said:


> In Eastern Catalan, the names 'el', 'ele' and 'ela' are pronounced [ˈeɫ], [ˈe.ɫe] and [ˈe.ɫa], with a velarised L [ɫ], as in all catalan dialects.


English Wikipedia says "In Western varieties like Valencian, this dark l contrasts with a clear l in intervocalic and word-initial position; while in other dialects, like Alguerese or Northern Catalan, /l/ is never velarized in any instance."
Is it correct?


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> English Wikipedia says "In Western varieties like Valencian, this dark l contrasts with a clear l in intervocalic and word-initial position; while in other dialects, like Alguerese or Northern Catalan, /l/ is never velarized in any instance."
> Is it correct?


In Western Catalan, as in all Catalan dialects, it's slightly velarised, but when it comes at the end of a syllable, it's more velarised. 

Depending on the speaker it can be always very velarised, especially in Eastern Catalan speakers, but it can happen also in Western ones. 

I don't know the case of Alguerese, but in traditional Northern Catalan it's velarised as in the other dialects. Nowadays because of Spanish and French influence, some young people pronounce all their L as light L.


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