# Voting



## Yuribear

As we know lately, many countries have gone through some sort of governmental election. Mexico's Presidential elections were yesterday although the results have yet to come out. I realize that we are rather fortunate to have a "democracy" although rather incipient, but at least on the making. I was wondering how it works in other countries. So I wrote several questions for you to answer, and answered mine at the same time:

Country: Mexico
1. Do  you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? Yes, for a President/Governor (The Executive) and the Senators and MP's (Legislative) at a Federal and State level.
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? Yes, everytime.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? The only times I did not vote was because I was abroad and there was no overseas voting then.
4. Is there re-election? Absolutely not!!
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? For six long years and after that they are gone forever!!!


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## Eloisa Giseburt

Yuribear said:
			
		

> As we know lately, many countries have gone through some sort of governmental election. Mexico's Presidential elections were yesterday although the results have yet to come out. I realize that we are rather fortunate to have a "democracy" although rather incipient, but at least on the making. I was wondering how it works in other countries. So I wrote several questions for you to answer, and answered mine at the same time:
> 
> Country: Mexico
> 1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? Yes, for a President.
> 2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? Yes, everytime.
> 3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? The only times I did not vote was because I was abroad and there was no overseas voting then.
> 4. Is there re-election? Absolutely not!!
> 5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? For six long years and after that they are gone forever!!!


 
Yuribear,

Is the vote in Mexico compulsory? I would think it isn't. It is a right but not an obligation. Nothing happens if you don't.Maybe I am just missreading your answer.


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## Yuribear

Well according to our Constitution (Art. 36.III) "voting" is one of the citizens obligations which means that it is compulsory, yet it is your "right" to vote for whomever you want. Although it must be said that it is not sanctioned, therefore it is not considered a crime not to vote.

(This is actually one of the typical question they ask to get your law degree in Mexico!!!)


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## Eloisa Giseburt

Yuribear said:
			
		

> Well according to our Constitution (Art. 36.III) "voting" is one of the citizens obligations which means that it is compulsory, yet it is your "right" to vote for whomever you want. Although it must be said that it is not sanctioned, therefore it is not considered a crime not to vote.
> 
> (This is actually one of the typical question they ask to get your law degree in Mexico!!!)


 
Thanks, I am not a lawyer, that is for sure! I studied those articles looong time ago!
Thanks for refreshing my memory


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## wsitiplaju

Hello,  
While voting is not compulsory in Mexico, I've been told that not voting can have a negative impact on your ability to get different government services.  Your voter registration card is marked when you vote, and apparently things can be made difficult for you if your card isn't marked.  Perhaps you all can tell me more about this.  
Yuribear, I take it you voted on Sunday.  Since your location is given as California, may I ask if you travelled to Mexico to vote, or if you did so by mail?  
Thanks.


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## Gato_Gordo

Hello wsitiplaju:

Voting *is* compusory in México, as Yuribear demonstrated, a right and an obligation.

But it is a law not enforced, and having your registration card unchecked is not an issue in any way. ( ´ー｀)―♪


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## Fernando

Country: Spain
1. Do  you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? We vote for the members of National, Regional and City Parliaments. They choose the President of Spain, your region and the Major.
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? Voting is not compulsory. I try to vote everytime.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? Abroad or impossible. I was not to vote in European Constitution referendum but I finally voted.
4. Is there re-election? Yes. The last president (José María Aznar) announced two years before the finish of the mandate he was not going to be candidate again because two terms (8 years) were enough.
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? President: 4 years. King: for life.


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## Yuribear

Hi wsitiplaju,

Voting IS compulsory in Mexico, and NO, if you chose not to vote, nothing happens to you. Government positions are an equal opportunity (although of course you stand a better chance if you know the people there). There is no *legal* way in which anyone in the government, outside the IFE (the Federal Election Institute) can have your information about you having voted or not. In any case, it is imposible to tell what you voted for since the ballots do not have your name. The "elector's card" it not marked in any way. Years ago they did, but not for the past 10 years.

I voted through the mail. I filled in an application to IFE proving my legal residence in the US and with a copy of my updated elector's card. They sent me a ballot by registered mail that have to be delivered in my own hand, and I returned it by registered mail too. However, my husband had to drive all the way down to Tijuana to vote, since his elector's card was only recently updated.

Fernando, can a PM be re-elected in Spain indefinitely or is there a limit? I am afraid I know very little about the EU, and I am not sure if there is even a EU Parliament or not, and how does the voting goes there if any?


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## Fernando

Sorry, Yuribear, I had forgotten the European Parliament. It is almost unuseful, anyway. They do no vote the European Commission (something like US secretaries) but they have an increasing influence and can obligue them to resign.

As far as I know, PM has no limits. As a matter of fact, some regional presidents (also members of the Regional Parliament) have been in charge since 1979.


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## wsitiplaju

Hi Yuribear,

If you examine the back of your husband's card very carefully, you should find that it is stamped "06" somewhere in the lower left-hand corner.  The mark is an indentation; it is very small & it can be hard to see.  Marks from previous years were upside-down "V"s indented on the appropriate year printed on the back of the card.  

Since the card is the main form of ID nowadays, anyone you have to present ID to can see if you voted or not.  Of course they cannot tell who you voted for.  The person who told me not having voted can cause problems did not give details, but she did tell me that she has more than once deposited a null vote in order to get her card stamped.  

The only actual story I've heard did not involve Mexican government but US Immigration.  A friend told me that his ex-wife was accused of having used her US visa to live in L.A. illegally.  She was a housewife, so she had no proof of having been actually living in Tijuana.  The "proof" that she had been in L.A. was that her voter registration card was unstamped.  "If you'd been living in Tijuana, you would have voted," reasoned the official.  Her visa was suspended.  

Other people who have not themselves had negative experiences have nonetheless told me that it's a "good idea" in general to have one's card stamped.  

I understand that the Constitution says voting is an obligation.  I guess it's a question of wording, but it just doesn't make much sense to me to say that something's compulsory, but nothing happens to you if you don't do it.  Are there laws which specify sanctions, and are not enforced, or is there simply a gap between the Constitution and the laws that emanate from it?  

Thanks for your answer (& especially for the link to the Constitution)!  I hope your husband didn't have to stand too many hours in the sun


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## ireney

Country: Greece
1. Do  you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? Prime Minister and Parliament members, Prefect and Mayor and EU Parliament. (I think I got them all)
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? It was compulsory but it isn't anymore. The law was never very strict anyway but I have always voted.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? Once, before we could vote only with our ID cards, when the cleaning lady decided to put the booklet we had to have (no idea how you call it) in an old PC game box and stashed it  on a high shelf. No, honestly, would you think of looking there?
4. Is there re-election? I am not sure I know what you mean. Prime Ministers can be re-elected as many times as 'we' want to re-elect them. President (not elected by the public) only two times (5 years each). Elected by the Parliament.
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? 4 years each term. The goverment can decide to have the elections before the end of the 4 years' period .


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## la reine victoria

Country:  *United Kingdom* 
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else?  *We vote for a political party.  The three main contenders are Consevative, Labour and Liberal Democrat.  The leader of the winning party becomes Prime Minister by command of HM the Queen (a formality).* 
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote?  *Voting is not compulsory.  I always vote.* 
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? 
4. Is there re-election?  *Yes.  We have suffered 9 long years of Tony Blair and his Labour Party, largely due to voter apathy*.  *His party has been re-elected three times in succession.* 
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? *The elected party can stay in power for 5 years after which a General Election takes place.  Most Prime Ministers call an election after four years.  Blair elected 1997, re-elected 2001, re-elected 2005.  The Queen is our monarch for life.  Monarchs are entitled to abdicate if they wish - the only one to do so was King Edward VIII in 1936.*


LRV


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## Yuribear

Hi Ireney, can you tell me what a Prefect is? I am not familiar with that figure.

 To all Europeans, how does the EU Parliament works? do you guys vote for the MP for your country or is it elected by the Executive or Legislative power in your country? 



> The person who told me not having voted can cause problems did not give details


 
Well, it is hard for me to answer legally because I am not updated on the matter. But assuming that it still has not been sanctioned, I would create hell to whomever authority would use this against me. I could have them thrown in jail for "abusing their power". The problem in Mexico and sort of all over the world is that citizens cannot be bother in knowing their own law. Everbody wants to defend their rights but seldom do they want to comply with their obligations as citizens of that nation.

However, there is still the possibility that there might be some administrative law that prevents someone who does not vote to actually work for the government. I haven't heard of any, but that might exist, based on the fact that it is an "obligation" for the citizens to do it, and if you fail to comply with it what kind of a public servant are you going to be? well, to me it does make sense.



> The only actual story I've heard did not involve Mexican government but *US Immigration*.



Well......... what to say, having suffered the harsh treatment of innumerable immigration agents, it is still their country and the agent has the *right* (according to US immigration law), to decide whether to let you in or not based on their own criteria. Regardless of the fact that you have a visa or not. But this is really another issue and I rather just keep this thread on the voting topic.


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## Vanda

Country: Brasil
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? President
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? It's compulsory. I do. I have to.  
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? 
4. Is there re-election? Unhappily, yes. 4 extra years.
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? For 4 "eternal" years and then they manage to be re-elected for more 4 "long eternal" years. And if it depended on our present President he would think about a way to "devise" a law giving himself the right to govern for life. Ai ai ai!


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## Tensai

Country: Canada
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? Yes, we vote for parties and the leader of the winning party becomes the Prime Minister
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? No
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? I do not believe politicians.
4. Is there re-election? yes
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? 4 years


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## Tensai

Country: Hong Kong, or Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? the Chief Executive - the puppet of the Chinese Central government - is being selected by like a group of 800 rich people and authorities.
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? No.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? I do not have citizenship in Hong Kong, even if i had one, i wouldn't vote.
4. Is there re-election? Yes
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? 5 years, and can serve no more than 2 consecutive terms


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## maxiogee

Yuribear said:
			
		

> To all Europeans, how does the EU Parliament works? do you guys vote for the MP for your country or is it elected by the Executive or Legislative power in your country?



Yurtibear,
That's a huge question and you would probably be best advised to read through the website of the EU, or maybe this wikipedia page might be enough for you.


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## sylvie38

hello
Country: France
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? We do have 9 politic parties about. We elect a President who design his Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will design his ministers then. We vote for the mayor of the city and the EU Parliament.
 2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? As far as I know, voting is not compulsory but it is a right.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? If I do not vote, it's because my voter's card is not up-to-date (we need a new card when we move). It's also when none of the political programs interests me!!
4. Is there re-election? no
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? The President is elected for 5 years now; He changed his Prime Minister last year who designed new ministers.


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## capsi

hi
country - India ,world's largest democracy

we vote to elect our members of Parliament (MPs) of the Union , local legislators of assembly of the state , Municipal members. In India voting is done through _electronic voting mechine _and countings are computerised, remember we have the largest numbers of voter listed.

1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? we can't elect the PM or President, we elect the MPs and they choose their leader and he/she becomes PM. Although we as public know it who will be the PM if certain party wins, as generally parties goes to election telling the ppl who will be the PM if they come to power.


2.If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? here voting is not compulsory, as u know in democrecy no one can force you to do something,even if it is voting, but every one is expected to vote, who ever he/she wants to. but false voting/ rigging do happens . i do vote, not always



3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? sometime it becomes useless,the same ppl get elected again and again,they dont do any thing......so u feel that voting is useless.


4. Is there re-election? yes ,sometimes. we have a very strong and powerful 'Election Commision' , if they feel someting wrong they do order re-election.


5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? generally... PM,President, MPs, MLAs all stays for 5 yrs. but MPs, MLAs can change the govt. at any time if they dont have faith in it or ppl dont want that govt. and go against it.


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## Yuribear

Thanks for the link Maxiogee! But what about Ireland, what do you guys vote for?


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## maxiogee

Yuribear said:
			
		

> Thanks for the link Maxiogee! But what about Ireland, what do you guys vote for?




See this post on another thread.
I really don't feel like typing it all out again.

Our head of state is Uachtarain na hÉireann (President of Ireland) who is a nominal head of state. Elected every seven years and allowed to serve two terms. The president is "above politics" here and doesn't enter in discussion of contentious issues. Our current president is Mary McAleese, a woman from Belfast in Northern Ireland. She succeeded our first female President - Mary Robinson.

Our parliament - Dáil Éireann - is elected at least every five years. There is no limit to how many terms one can serve either as our Taoiseach (Prime Minister) or as one of our TDs (MPs). The parliament may be dissolved by the President on the request of the Taoiseach if he is unable to secure a majority in An Dáil (parliament).

Our upper house Seanad Éireann (The Senate of Ireland) is co-terminous with An Dáil, and is dissolved automatically on the dissolution of An Dáil. There is no limit to the number of terms one may serve there.

We have a written Constitution which may not be amended without reference to the electorate by way of a referendum. Not all referenda have been carried, even though they are usually proposed and strongly backed by the government of the day.

As part of our membership of the European Union we elect 13 MEPs (from four constituencies) to the European Parliament every five years.

No vote is compulsory.
Many people do not vote because of apathy.

If there is anything I haven't covered which you would like explained, don't hesitate to ask.


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## french4beth

Country: USA
1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? President* & Vice President (Executive Branch) but only 2 parties control almost everything (Democrats and Republicans) and the Senators and House of Representatives (Legislative) at a Federal and State level.
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? Yes, always (even local elections - many people in the world do not have this right, and even women haven't had it very long - plus, a lot of soldiers have died to guarantee this right.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? The only times I didn't vote were when I was living in Canada and didn't make arrangements to get an absentee ballot  
4. Is there re-election? The president can only be elected to two consecutive terms; there are no term limits for the other offices. 
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power?For the president only - 2 consecutive terms is the limit, so usually 8 years is the maximum (Dubya will be gone - and none too soon!). However, if a vice-president takes over for a president (due to a death or impeachment), and then gets elected, the time before he/she is elected doesn't count towards the legal maximum.

*Ack! I just remembered - in the US, the Electoral College actually votes for the President - when we citizens vote, we are voting for representatives who will then elect the President - see more detailed info here: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/procedural_guide.html
How could I forget? And I was a political science major at university  !
Thus, even though Reagan supposedly had a 'landslide' victory over Carter, the *popular* vote was Reagan = 50%, Carter = 41% (or something similar), hardly a 'landslide'.  However, Reagan got nearly all of the electoral votes (489 to 49) - more on that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_election


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## maxiogee

french4beth said:
			
		

> Country: USA
> 1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else?
> President & Vice President (Executive Branch).



Don't you, in essence, vote for the President, as whoever wins that post takes in their "running mate" also?
The winner of the convention nomination process names a running mate, so even the voters at the pre-election caucuses don't vote for a running mate, do they?


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## french4beth

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Don't you, in essence, vote for the President, as whoever wins that post takes in their "running mate" also?
> The winner of the convention nomination process names a running mate, so even the voters at the pre-election caucuses don't vote for a running mate, do they?


Technically, it's a separate vote, but I can't recall any occasion in which 2 people from a different party were elected together.


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## tvdxer

Country: U.S.
1. Do  you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? We vote for, to name a few: president (but not with a direct vote), senators, representatives, governor, mayor, resolutions (at times), school board head (I think), conservation district director (don't ask), etc.
2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? Voting is not compulsory. I try to vote every time.
3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? I've only had the opportunity to vote once (2004), and I did do so.
4. Is there re-election? Yes. One per president.
5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? President: 4 or 8 years, depending on whether re-elected or not (we have seen the former with Bush, Reagan, and Clinton in recent years).  Senate: I think 2 years min for a junior senator, not sure if there is even a max as long as they keep getting re-elected.  Reps: I believe the term is 4 years, and they can be re-elected, but not sure. King: I'm king for life, myself.


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## Yuribear

Hi capsi

I believe you are a little bit confused about what a democracy entails when you say:



			
				capsi said:
			
		

> as u know in democrecy no one can force you to do something,even if it is voting, but every one is expected to vote



A nation who excercise a liberal democracy  (such as India and Mexico), has a set of rules to which it's citizens abide to, not by "expectation" but by law. You as a citizen have several obligations whether you like it or not. For instance, you must comply with the law (or else finish your whimsical days in jail), you must pay taxes, etc. These obligations are compulsory and democracy does not mean that the law may be applicable to you only if you want to. 

Where these obligations appear varies according to each nation. We, have them summarized in our Constitution. The fact that voting for us is an obligation in no way fractures our democracy. Every mexican citizen, without exceptions, has the right to vote for whomever they want to or even destroy or nullifiy their ballot. But as members of our country we have the duty to contribute to the constant making of our free and democratic nation.

I hope this clarifies it to you, meri dost.


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## Edwin

For capsi:

A list of countries with compulsory voting

Many of these countries are democracies. 

A discussion of compulsory voting in Australia and a few other countries may be found here.  I quote one interesting remark from this discussion:



> The Australian fine of $20 is much more lenient than the fine of 200 pounds in Cyprus, for instance. Apart from differences in fines, there are varying levels of government-engendered sanction that affect the degree of punishment. In Belgium a citizen who fails to vote in at least four elections within 15 years will probably be disenfranchised; a Peruvian without a stamped voting card is unable to receive some services from public offices; in Greece a non-voter may have difficulty in obtaining a new passport or driver’s licence.


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## Yuribear

As usual Edwin you always come down with strong facts. Thanks for the links. Very interesting indeed!


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## french4beth

tvdxer said:
			
		

> Country: U.S.
> 5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? President: 4 or 8 years, depending on whether re-elected or not (we have seen the former with Bush, Reagan, and Clinton in recent years). Senate - US Senators are elected for _six-year_ terms (staggered - only 1/3 of Senate is up for re-election at any given time), no term limits Reps: The term is for _two years_, they can be re-elected, and there are no term limits.


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## ireney

Yuribear it's a bit difficult to explain really. Let's see if that helps a bit. The US us divided in States. Greece is a lot smaller than the US  . What we have is Peripheries instead (think of GB and Essex, Yorkshire etc only smaller than that). 
This "peripheries" are divided in smaller parts (some times) called Prefectures. See if this helps

I also forgot to mention that voting for Parliament members-government is still obligatory in Greece and it's for the rest of the cases that it isn't


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## capsi

to yuribear,
what you said i completely agree but in india its not must to vote ,there are no laws here ,and its not compulsory to vote. When i said in a democracy you can't force, what i tried to mean that if i don't like those persons who are standing for election ,no one can force me or should not (by passing a law). Since for last few elections electronic voting machines are used here and there is no way to cancel your vote(either you vote for one or you don't go to vote) like the paper ballot, many ppl don't go to vote. In india vote boycotting also happens, may be a village or a part of town  as a community declares before the vote that they will not participate in election until there is improvement of water supply or roads or healthcare or anything, and you know the the politicians they will do anything for vote.

Paying taxes or obeding law of the society is for devolopment of the country and to live in a civilised society with everyone peacefully.
but voting should be always a personal decision, according to me there shouldnot be any law abt it.Because i dont think if you make a law ,it doesnot mean its always right, like, even few years back we used to kill many thousand ppl every year in the name of capital punishment all over the world and that used to be done according to law.But now most of the countries do it only for the most ugliest of crimes (though china still does more than 1000 a year) so if its a law that does not mean its always correct.There is always a chance to improvement nothing is ultimate.


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## Foxynet

sylvie38 said:
			
		

> hello
> Country: France
> 1. Do you have any choice? Do you vote for a President, a Prime Minister, something else? We do have 9 politic parties about. We elect a President who design his Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will design his ministers then. We vote for the mayor of the city and the EU Parliament. We also vote at local levels, so to sum up : European level> national (executive and legislative)> région> département> commune (=city)
> 2. If voting is compulsory, yet your right and privilege to vote for whomever you want, do you actually vote? As far as I know, voting is not compulsory but it is a right.
> 3. In case you do not vote, why don't you? what keeps you from not doing it? If I do not vote, it's because my voter's card is not up-to-date (we need a new card when we move). It's also when none of the political programs interests me!!
> 4. Is there re-election? no ??? Chirac has been relected! or I misunderstood re-election meaning! if so please, explain it to me.
> 5. For how long does your President, PM, King/Queen, other stays in power? The President is elected for 5 years now; He changed his Prime Minister last year who designed new ministers.


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