# Architectural person



## prost

If someone is interested in architecture, I would say that they are an 'architectural person'. How do I say 'architectural person'?
Can you help Wertis?
Thanks.


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## morzh

prost said:


> If someone is interested in architecture, I would say that they are an 'architectural person'. How do I say 'architectural person'?
> Can you help Wertis?
> Thanks.




Человек, интересующийся архитектурой. (or "увлекающийся архитектурой").


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## oleksii

In addition to the above

увлечённый архитектурой


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## morzh

"Увлечённый" and "Увлекающийся" are not the same.

Someone who is interested in something, is "увлекающийся / увлекшийся (used if it's a recent event)" ,
For that someone to become "увлечённый" he needs to make it the main interest in his life, or at least to really-really be involved in it, like this is where most of his time goes towards.

One can be "увлечённый" with his job. But it is strange to say "Он увлекается своей работой". Not impossible. But strange. It would imply he "dabbles" in his work, not taking it too seriously, but as "увлечение" (a hobby).

It is possible for "увлекающийся" to become "увлечённый", of course.

But without an indication that he/she is that serious about the subject of his passion, it is "увлекающийся".

Example:

You can say: "Королев был увлечен созданием космического корабля".
But you cannot say:"Королев увлекался созданием космических кораблей".


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## morzh

prost said:


> If someone is interested in architecture, I would say that they are an 'architectural person'. How do I say 'architectural person'?
> Can you help Wertis?
> Thanks.




Now that we actually touched that: how much is this person of yours interested in architecture? Does he like reading about it? Does a little hobby on the side? Collects something? Or does he do it seriously, to the point of becoming a semi-pro, or even a pro, a real expert, maybe even this passion of his interfering with his personal life?

Depending on the answer (so far reading into what you wrote I deducted it is the former; that is he dabbles in architecture, liking reading on the subject or so) it will be either "увлекающийся" (like I suggested so far) or "увлеченный" (like Oleksii has suggested).

But it cannot be both.


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## Wertis

prost said:


> If someone is interested in architecture, I would say that they are an 'architectural person'. How do I say 'architectural person'?
> Can you help Wertis?
> Thanks.



First of all I'm not sure that "architectural person" exists in English as a collocation (fixed phrase). The meaning is clear, but the expression itself looks strange. If one were interested in maths, they could say "mathematical person". Similarly "physical person", "chemical person", ...... I think you see what I mean. People will manage to understand, but they will stare at you or/and laugh and then ask why you've used such a strange phrase since it's possible to be clearer. I suggest you not use it in Russian.

 I've digressed for a while and I've  noticed that English is your mother tongue.  So I needn't have advised how to call this person in English because you know it better. Still I'm a bit surprised ... I?n spite of this phrase's existence in English, my words about Russian are true.

Let's try to find a synonym: "человек, интересующийся архитектурой", "человек, увлекающийся архитектурой", "человек, для которого архитектура представляет интерес" (this one is bulky), "человек, живущий архитектурой" (this one is emphatic and poetic), etc. Options #1 and #2 are neutral and can be used everywhere. Regarding #3 and #4 I've left my comments in brackets.


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## Wertis

I agree that "увлекающийся" and "увлеченный" can mean different things, but there is a loit in common between these two words. Even being a native-speaker I have to think before I suggest an explanation about the difference




morzh said:


> Someone who is interested in something, is "увлекающийся / увлекшийся (used if it's a recent event)" ,
> For that someone to become "увлечённый" he needs to make it the main interest in his life, or at least to really-really be involved in it, like this is where most of his time goes towards.



The clarification about "увлекшийся" is correct. We can use this word only when we're speaking about something that aroused our interest not long ago. Usually this interest appears quite recenly, which is clear from the context.

Now about "увлеченный". We can use this word with regard to men or women who are attracted to their other half, but this meaning is rather specific and we need a new thread to discuss it. The main meaning is the condition when someone gets a lot of pleasure from something and wants to spend as much time doing it as possible. When a person finds something that is interesting for him we say that he becomes "увлекшийся" because we don't know how long his interest will persist. If his interest is retained, we say "увлеченный" to emphasize this. 
Also note that you can describe a person as "увлеченный" when you don't know how much time he has actually spent doing something (1 day, 1 year, 10 years, etc.), but you see that he feels like doing some activity and all the time looks forward to continuing doing it. Look at my examples:

1) Увлеченный футболом, он уже давно решил отправиться на его историческую родину - в Англию. - Keen on/Interested in footbal he decided long ago to go to its historical Motherland - England.

Here it doesn't matter how long he has already been interested in the game.

2) Увлекшийся футболом еще в 5 летнем возрасте, он сейчас стал по-настоящему увлеченным футболистом - Taking a great interest in football at the age of 5 he has now become a really keen/ardent/avid footballer.

In this sentence you can see what I said about the gradula process between finding something interesting and becoming a true admirer of something




morzh said:


> Example:
> 
> You can say: "Королев был увлечен созданием космического корабля".
> But you cannot say:"Королев увлекался созданием космических кораблей".



A good example. In sentence #1 with "увлечен" you say that Korolev was absorbed with creating a spaceship and worked at full stretch to succeed in his great project. In sentence #2 you just say that Korolev liked creating new spaceships, but this sentence doesn't say that he is now working on a particular one. Just a general phrase describing Korolev's favorite occupation.


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## prost

Thanks everyone. It's wonderful to have an international forum! 

I have another question. If there is an English person who is trying to impress other people, so they are showing off to other people, then I could say to them, "English show off". Or if for example someone is playing tennis and they are trying to impress other people by playing a great shot, I could say to them, "tennis show off". Or I could just say, "show off" to both of them.

How would I say, "show off"?


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## morzh

*I've open another topic - it is against the rules to piggyback questions.*

I have given you an answer in there.


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## Demonic_Duck

Wertis said:


> First of all I'm not sure that "architectural person" exists in English as a collocation (fixed phrase). The meaning is clear, but the expression itself looks strange. If one were interested in maths, they could say "mathematical person". Similarly "physical person", "chemical person", ...... I think you see what I mean. People will manage to understand, but they will stare at you or/and laugh and then ask why you've used such a strange phrase since it's possible to be clearer. I suggest you not use it in Russian.


I think "mathematical person" would be clear enough, as it obviously means a person with an affinity for maths. I'd feel comfortable using this in everyday speech, e.g. "my dad's a mathematical person, he loves doing equations". I definitely wouldn't use any of the others. "Physical" would be ambiguous as to whether it's a person who has a physical existence (e.g. "I'd rather talk to a physical person than a robot when I phone customer service"), a person who is more inclined to act than to think, or a person who enjoys sport/exercise. You definitely _wouldn't_ use this phrase to refer to someone with an affinity for physics. Similarly, you definitely _wouldn't_ use "chemical" to refer to a person with an affinity for chemistry.

As for "architectural person"? If I heard this phrase I'd be inclined to think of a person who looked like a building, lol.


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## Wertis

Demonic_Duck said:


> I think "mathematical person" would be clear enough, as it obviously means a person with an affinity for maths. I'd feel comfortable using this in everyday speech, e.g. "my dad's a mathematical person, he loves doing equations". I definitely wouldn't use any of the others. "Physical" would be ambiguous as to whether it's a person who has a physical existence (e.g. "I'd rather talk to a physical person than a robot when I phone customer service"), a person who is more inclined to act than to think, or a person who enjoys sport/exercise. You definitely _wouldn't_ use this phrase to refer to someone with an affinity for physics. Similarly, you definitely _wouldn't_ use "chemical" to refer to a person with an affinity for chemistry.
> 
> As for "architectural person"? If I heard this phrase I'd be inclined to think of a person who looked like a building, lol.



I'll remeber what you've said about "mathematical person". In my opinion this phrase makes sense only because "mathematical" can't mean anything else when speaking about a person unlike "physical person", which sounds ambiguous and makes people think what is the intended meaning. If you hadn't told us about "mathematical person" I would still consider it starnge now. However I won't any longer and will use it when necessary. 

I also understand your astonishment at "architectural person". From the very beginning it was doubtful that such an adjective can refer to a person interested in architecture or working as an architect.


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## morzh

It is quite normal to call a person after an object of their passion. Of course, if it is unambiguous enough, and inoffensive.

Like, people sometimes ask me: "Are you a beer person?" Meaning - are you really into beer? Seems like you are.

Or: "He is a mushroom guy". Meaning - I like go picking mushrooms in the woods, and here it is rare enough for someone to do, so it gets noticed. Of course, this may also mean that "he likes to take "magic mushrooms"". But then in the context it ic clear what they mean, though the jokes are poked at me sometimes, just for laughs.


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## Wertis

morzh said:


> It is quite normal to call a person after an object of their passion. Of course, if it is unambiguous enough, and inoffensive.
> 
> Like, people sometimes ask me: "Are you a beer person?" Meaning - are you really into beer? Seems like you are.
> 
> Or: "He is a mushroom guy". Meaning - I like go picking mushrooms in the woods, and here it is rare enough for someone to do, so it gets noticed. Of course, this may also mean that "he likes to take "magic mushrooms"". But then in the context it ic clear what they mean, though the jokes are poked at me sometimes, just for laughs.



And we do the same in Russian. It's quite commom when we call someone after their occupation or hobby. We do it mostly as a joke, but sometimes seriously.


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## morzh

Wertis said:


> And we do the same in Russian. It's quite commom when we call someone after their occupation or hobby. We do it mostly as a joke, but sometimes seriously.




Sort of. I could translate a "beer person" as "пивная душа".

It'll be different for every hobby though.


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## Wertis

morzh said:


> Sort of. I could translate a "beer person" as "пивная душа".
> 
> It'll be different for every hobby though.



It will. By the way I've never heard "пивная душа", but it's clear what you mean.


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## morzh

I've heard it, this is why I used it as an example.


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## Demonic_Duck

I think in English you'd be more likely to use the noun as an adjective, rather than using the adjectival form of the noun, when describing a person with an interest in a given subject.

E.g. "physics person" = OK, "physical person" = ambiguous.
"chemistry person" = OK, "chemical person" just sounds strange.
"beer person" = OK, "beery person" (yes, that is a word) = not OK.


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## morzh

Demonic_Duck said:


> I think in English you'd be more likely to use the noun as an adjective, rather than using the adjectival form of the noun, when describing a person with an interest in a given subject.
> 
> E.g. "physics person" = OK, "physical person" = ambiguous.
> "chemistry person" = OK, "chemical person" just sounds strange.
> "beer person" = OK, "beery person" (yes, that is a word) = not OK.



Yes, this is what I mostly encounter.


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## prost

Demonic_Duck is right. There is no word to describe someone interested in architecture. People will understand if you ask them the question, "are you an architecture person?"

Morzh has a good point about beer person.

My solution was to invent a new word that no one else has used before.


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## Rosett

Я нашла слово "архитектурщик" в кавычках. Может быть оно подойдет?


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## Saluton

Rosett said:


> Я нашла слово "архитектурщик" в кавычках. Может быть оно подойдет?


Первый раз слышу. Это жаргон, наверное. В общем, нет.


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## morzh

Saluton said:


> Первый раз слышу. Это жаргон, наверное. В общем, нет.



Me too. I know very few words (if any - thinking of it, just one) ending with "-урщик", like "халтурщик".

And if it did exist, it would have a negative connotation of a "bad specialist" (precedent with "халтурщик" as the most prominent word ending similarly will cast that kind of shadow), so the subliminal meaning will be "a bad architect / a person who dabbles in architecture with poor results".


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## Rosett

Saluton said:


> Первый раз слышу. Это жаргон, наверное. В общем, нет.


 Это значит "человек увлеченный архитектурой".
На -щик не обязательно плохо.


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## Saluton

Если слово малоизвестное, а тем более жаргон, то плохо, потому что перевод должен быть понятным рядовому читателю.


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## morzh

В общем да. Ситуация усугубляется тем, что, если слово малоизвестно, то оно будет интерпретироваться всеми по-разному. И большую роль будут играть внешние признаки; внешний признак "-урщик" для меня, к примеру, указывает на плохую квалификацию. А это, может, вовсе и не имеется ввиду.

Если уж предлагать новое/малоизвестное новое слово, то так, чтобы смысл его был ясен. Иначе перевод будет затруднен.


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