# FR: J'ai/avais tout oublié



## knoobyesnoob

Hi, I'm in French 11 and we just learned the 3 verb tenses, the passe  compose, the imparfait and the plusque parfait. We just got a worksheet  to do involving all 3 and it's in the form of a paragraph where you have  to conjugate verbs that they put in the infinitive into one of the 3  tenses. So far, this is what I got:

L'été dernier j'ai fait le meilleur voyage de ma vie. Ma famille et moi  avons pris l'avion à Vancouver et nous sommes allés en France.

J'avais visité déja la France quand j'avais sept ans mais je (oublier) tout.

This is where I am stuck. I don't know how I should conjugate "oublier".  It seems the sentence is saying, I had already visited France when I  was seven years old, but I forgot everything? Or is it I had forgotten  everything. I would think it's the imparfait so "je oubliais", because if it was passé composé wouldn't it mean that he just forgot it all right on the spot. I'm not sure if it's the plus que parfait though. Would appreciate some help on clarifying this.


----------



## planner2009

i have forgotten everything ...so it should be 'j'ai tout oublié' 
also, j'avais déjà visité la france
the passe composè in france corresponds to the simple past or the present perfect in english... in this case it's the present perfect 'i have forgotten'
good luck


----------



## knoobyesnoob

Thanks for the reply. 

I'm still a bit confused though. Isn't forgetting something sort of like a state of mind? And since states of mind generally are associated with the imparfait wouldn't it be j'oubliais?


----------



## aerach

Of these 3 tenses, the_ plus-que-parfait _is probably the easiest tense to learn, because it is used practically the same way as the _pluperfect_.

In your sentence, the narrator tells us that:
he *has been* twice to France (last summer and when he was 7) and that between the two visits he *had forgotten* everything.
He cannot say that _"he *has forgotten* everything"_ here, because _"he *has been* there *since*"_.
Same thing in French: "j'*avais* tout *oublié*"




> also, j'avais déjà visité la france


Sorry, there is no problem with "J'avais visité déja la France...".


----------



## snoopylvr

Think of 'oublier' as an action - not a state of mind/desire.
The only reason you would put an action verb in imparfait would be if it was continuous action in the past or a past action that was interrupted 
Hope that helps.


----------



## Lacuzon

Hi,

The plus-que-parfait has my vote too!


----------



## Oddmania

*** J'avais *déjà* visité la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'oubliais tout.

This doesn't make much sense to me in this context, as this would mean you used to forget everything when you were seven. _I had already been to France when I was 7, but I would forget everything at that time._ The Imperfect indeed often expresses a state of mind, but it also almost always expresses the English Preterit Continuous or a _used-to _form 

*** J'avais déjà visité la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'ai tout oublié.

This makes sense  _I had already been to France when I was seven, but unfortunately I have forgotten everything (about that trip)!_ This implies you still don't remember anything. Honestly, it would sound more natural to conjugate all the verbs in the _Passé Composé_ tense in this case (_J'ai déjà visité la France quand j'avais sept ans, mais j'ai tout oublié!_)

*** J'avais déjà visité la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'avais tout oublié.

You had forgotten everything but now you've been to France again, you remember. Or at least, you try to imply you remember.

_J'ai tout oublié :_ a past tense, but that past action is relevant now. You still don't remember what you forgot in the past.
_J'avais tout oublié :_ in your story (when you were 7), you had forgotten everything. When you say this, I can see in my mind a 7-year-old boy who says_“ I have forgotten everything! _”. You would use the _Present Perfect_ and the _Passé Composé_ when this happens to you, but once it's done, you would use the_ Plus-Que-Parfait_ to tell the story to someone else. As Lacuzon, I think this is what I'd say.

.


----------



## Maître Capello

I wouldn't use the pluperfect but the passé composé because the comment is most likely still relevant today. The pluperfect is indeed the appropriate tense if the person now remembers most of what he had seen during the 1st trip. But nothing in the context suggests this and it is pretty unlikely.


----------



## Handbag

Yes, but the simple past suggests that the forgetting just happened once, while really it is closer to a now-completed action, which calls for the perfect.

Maître, I make this suggestion with due deference to your standing, and should be happy to be corrected.


----------



## Maître Capello

Why are you now mentioning the passé simple (~ simple past)? I was talking about the passé composé (~ present perfect)…


----------



## Handbag

Excellent, thanks Maître, I'll brush up my French for the tenses, and I'm glad to hear the perfect is the right choice.  Sorry to have troubled you.


----------



## aerach

> I wouldn't use the pluperfect but the passé composé because the comment is most likely still relevant today. The pluperfect is indeed the appropriate tense if the person now remembers most of what he had seen during the 1st trip. But nothing in the context suggests this and it is pretty unlikely.


Not exactly :

_Ma famille et moi *avons pris* l'avion à Vancouver et nous *sommes allés* en France._

A/ _J'*avais visité* déjà la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'*ai* tout *oublié*._
The "passé composé" states that X has now forgotten everything of his 1st visit to France. When this memory was lost is left to conjectures: it can be before the 2d trip, or after, or it could even be that the memory of the 2d trip erased it.

B/ _J'*avais visité* déja la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'*avais* tout *oublié*._
The "plus-que-parfait" simply states that between X's 1st and 2d visit to France, X forgot everything; that is to say: X had forgotten everything before his 2d visit. It does not tell us whether X's memory of the 1st trip was recovered or not during the 2d trip (or after).

I find B/ more likely because of "déjà", which takes us backward in time, suggesting X is referring to what he could remember of the 1st visit before the 2d one.
If instead of "déjà" we had "aussi", which makes us look at both visits from our present perspective, I would think A/ more likely.


----------



## knoobyesnoob

Thanks for all the help guys.

But right now there seems to be a battle between J'ai tout oublié and J'avais tout oublié lol. Both of them sound very convincing when you guys are explaining it, but I can't decide!


----------



## aerach

knoobyesnoob,

This is not a battle!
Oddmania (post #7) was the first to explain why the "passé composé" and the "plus-que-parfait" were possible here.
Further down (post #12), I did basically the same. (The difference lies with the analysis of the "plus-que-parfait", where I explain what it states, and Oddmania what it suggests.)

The only thing that matters is that you understand these explanations.
And, if your teacher tells you only one is correct, you will have all the arguments you need to prove him wrong.


----------



## Maître Capello

aerach said:


> Not exactly :
> 
> _Ma famille et moi *avons pris* l'avion à Vancouver et nous *sommes allés* en France.
> 
> _A/ _J'*avais visité* déjà la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'*ai* tout *oublié*._
> The "passé composé" states that X has now forgotten everything of his 1st visit to France. When this memory was lost is left to conjectures: it can be before the 2d trip, or after, or it could even be that the memory of the 2d trip erased it.
> 
> B/ _J'*avais visité* déja la France quand j'avais sept ans mais j'*avais* tout *oublié*._
> The "plus-que-parfait" simply states that between X's 1st and 2d visit to France, X forgot everything; that is to say: X had forgotten everything before his 2d visit. It does not tell us whether X's memory of the 1st trip was recovered or not during the 2d trip (or after).
> 
> I find B/ more likely because of "déjà", which takes us backward in time, suggesting X is referring to what he could remember of the 1st visit before the 2d one.
> If instead of "déjà" we had "aussi", which makes us look at both visits from our present perspective, I would think A/ more likely.


My turn to say "not exactly"! 

While I agree with "A", I would state "B" a bit differently… As a matter of fact, using the pluperfect suggests that you forgot during your 1st visit (same tense as _j'avais visité_ → simultaneity) or anytime between the two trips (anteriority w.r.t. the 2nd trip _nous sommes allés en France_, or that this is not true anymore (you now remember it). All three interpretations are possible, but given the context, the last one is the one that pops to my mind first. Therefore, to avoid any ambiguity, I definitely prefer the passé composé. (Note that I'm not saying the pluperfect is incorrect; I'm just saying that I would not use it here…)

At any rate, I don't think that using _aussi_ instead of _déjà_ would change anything…


----------



## aerach

> As a matter of fact, using the pluperfect suggests that
> 1- you forgot during your 1st visit (same tense as j'avais visité → simultaneity)
> 2- or anytime between the two trips (anteriority w.r.t. the 2nd trip nous sommes allés en France,
> 3- or that this is not true anymore (you now remember it).
> All three interpretations are possible


(I took the liberty to change the format, to make things visually clearer.)

1: This is hardy possible at all for logical reasons: how could you forget everything of your 1st visit during that very 1st visit?
2: No problem here, everybody agrees. This is what the _plus-que-parfait_ states.
3: This is a possible interpretation based on 2, i.e.: this is a possible inference based on what the _plus-que-parfait_ states. Such an inference is obvious in "On dîne chez X ce soir. / Ah oui, j'avais oublié !". This is where we diverge: given the context, this is not what pops into my mind first.

As for "déjà" vs "aussi", I merely tried to express my sentiment about something that is very difficult to grasp anyway, and that is too subject to interpretation to be of any real use to someone who is learning French.

NB: My "not exactly" was aimed at the difference between "stated" and "inferred".


----------

