# seven



## Isidore Demsky

This is from Wikipedia.


> *Seven*
> The number 7 (七, Pinyin: qī (Mandarin) "chut" (Cantonese) symbolizes "togetherness". It is a lucky number for relationships. It is also recognized as the luckiest number in the West, and is one of the rare numbers that is great in both Chinese and many Western cultures. It is a lucky number in Chinese culture, because it sounds alike to the Chinese word 起 (Pinyin: qǐ) in Mandarin meaning arise, and also 气 (Pinyin: qì) meaning life essence. In Cantonese it sounds like the verb "to leave" which adds emphasis. For example, three and seven together in Cantonese emphasizes that you not only are able to grow, but you can also grow out of any situation you might be trying to have. It is for this reason it is auspicious. If it was combined with the numbers 4 and 5, i.e. 457, this would be extremely inauspicious as it would translate literally to "Death does not allow you to leave" or interpreted "Even in death you cannot escape."


Numbers in Chinese culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is it true that the word for seven (in Cantonese or Mandarin) also sounds like the word meaning "sure" (certain), or "surely" (certainly)?

And if seven were combined with eight, would it be considered auspicious (because it could be taken to mean something like "surely prosper," or "sure prosperity")?


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## fyl

Your previous post seemed to also contain discussions about auspicious/inauspicious numbers. But I'm afraid maybe you have thought too much about these things. They are NOT the real culture. Things do not run in this way.
It's true that 6, 8, 9 are auspicious, 4 is inauspicious. But all other things are simply far-fetched, personal, or at least regional. That Wikipedia page does not even have a Chinese version. Obviously it's not written by Chinese speakers. I have never heard of digits other than 6, 8, 9, 4 can ever have clear lucky/unlucky correlations throughout my life.
I have never heard of 7 can be related to 起, 气 or "sure". 7 does sound like 起 and 气, but I would never make this kind of connections. I can't think of a word meaning "sure" that sounds like 7.
78 together are simply two meaningless digits to me. If it were 87, then it can possibly be an Internet slang meaning 霸气, and often comes in "v587" which means 威武霸气 (bravo, manly).


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## Isidore Demsky

fyl said:


> I can't think of a word meaning "sure" that sounds like 7.


I thought you said


> 7 does sound like 起 and 气


So is there a word meaning "sure" that sounds like "seven" or isn't there?

And if there is, does this homophone (or near homophone) appear in Mandarin or Cantonese?


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## fyl

起 and 气 have nothing to do with "sure". They are the two words explained in the text you have quoted.
I can't think of a word meaning "sure" that sounds like 7. As I already said.
Again don't trust those materials or what you have heard of. For example, in the paragraph you have quoted, it gives at least 4 different explanations of 7: "togetherness" (should be 齐), "rise" (起), "life essence" (气), and "to leave" (some word in Cantonese). Plus your version, "sure" (unknown character). Which of the 5 is right? I have heard of none.
If I am allowed to write about the so-called "culture" in this way, there are 140+ (just counted) different characters in my dictionary with exactly the sound qi that can be chosen.


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## Isidore Demsky

fyl said:


> 起 and 气 have nothing to do with "sure". They are the two words explained in the text you have quoted.
> I can't think of a word meaning "sure" that sounds like 7. As I already said.


Thank you.

I speak English, Spanish, a little Greek, and a very little Japanese.

I still remember the very strong negative reaction I got from an elderly Oriental customer when I said "Konbannichiwa" to him one night around Christmas, when I was working as a sales associate at Strawbridge and Clothier years ago.

It turned out he was Korean, and I only tried using that phrase on the off chance he might be Japanese because I rarely got a chance to use the few words and phrases I knew.

Do you speak Mandarin or Cantonese (or both)?


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## Isidore Demsky

Does anyone know if "seven" and "surely" (or "sure") are homophones in Cantonese?


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## fyl

My native language is Mandarin. My point was that this kind of things are becoming way too far-fetched and not a culture at all.
You may wait for someone who speaks Cantonese to answer this.


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## Isidore Demsky

fyl said:


> My native language is Mandarin. My point was that this kind of things are becoming way too far-fetched and not a culture at all.
> You may wait for someone who speaks Cantonese to answer this.


Thank you.

I got your point, but I'm not sure what you mean by "far-fetched." 

I'm not suggesting that anyone seriously infer anything from any homophones that may exist in any language, or that superstition is any more a part of your culture than mine.



fyl said:


> ...and not a culture at all.



Yes, superstition is probably a better word, and (as I said above) I'm not suggesting that superstition is any more a part of your culture than it is a part of mine.

But it is a fact that some of us sometimes tend to be superstitious

I've known Americans who were terrified of going out on Friday the 13th, or opening an umbrella indoors, or of spilling salt, and I myself sometimes tend to be superstitious.

I'd simply like to know if a homophone I read about somewhere really exists in Mandarin or Cantonese.

I think you've already answered half of that question--I don't think it exists in Mandarin--and I'd appreciate it if you or someone else could answer the other half.

Does this homophone exist in Cantonese?

Is the pronunciation of the word for "seven" the same as the pronunciation of the word for "sure"?


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## Mamanunique

Isidore Demsky said:


> Is the pronunciation of the word for "seven" the same as the pronunciation of the word for "sure"?


No，that's not true. I can't think of anything lucky or unlucky when I look at the number of 7. the pronunciations of 7 and “sure” are very different. .
I am a Cantonese and I speak both Cantonese and Mandarin.


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## Isidore Demsky

Mamanunique said:


> No，that's not true. I can't think of anything lucky or unlucky when I look at the number of 7. the pronunciations of 7 and “sure” are very different.


Thank you.


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## fyl

Isidore Demsky said:


> Thank you.
> I got your point, but I'm not sure what you mean by "far-fetched."
> I'm not suggesting that anyone seriously infer anything from any homophones that may exist in any language, or that superstition is any more a part of your culture than mine.
> Yes, superstition is probably a better word, and (as I said above) I'm not suggesting that superstition is any more a part of your culture than it is a part of mine.
> But it is a fact that some of us sometimes tend to be superstitious
> I've known Americans who were terrified of going out on Friday the 13th, or opening an umbrella indoors, or of spilling salt, and I myself sometimes tend to be superstitious.



I mean the connection between numbers and meanings are tooooo weak, not convincing at all. They are just funny and alien to Chinese people.
It's not about "any more". My point was, this is not a superstition ever existed, so it is not a culture.
If you are interested in these topics, I would say 6, 8, 9, 4 are the ones like the "Friday" or "13th", i.e. they are the superstitions really exist. Do not trust other things you have read or heard. They contain too many things that are not real.
As I said in #4, there are 140+ different words have the same sound as 7. So if you want correlations, I am able to explain 7 to literally anything. With time and explanation, I believe one of these 140+ words can be connected to "sure" or whatever you want. But that does not make sense at all. The Chinese language and superstition do not run in that way.


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## Isidore Demsky

fyl said:


> ...As I said in #4, there are 140+ different words have the same sound as 7...I believe one of these 140+ words can be connected to "sure" or whatever you want.


You mean one of these 140+ words that "have the same sound as 7"?

So there is a word meaning "sure" that's pronounced the same as the word for "seven"?



> With time and explanation, I believe one of these 140+ words can be connected to "sure" or whatever you want.


Why would it take time and explanation to connect the two words if they have the same sound?



Mamanunique said:


> No，that's not true. I can't think of anything lucky or unlucky when I look at the number of 7. the pronunciations of 7 and “sure” are very different. .
> I am a Cantonese and I speak both Cantonese and Mandarin.


I'm confused now.

Are you right, or is fyl right?

Is there a word meaning "sure" with "the same sound as 7"?

I think I remember reading about this homophone (that I was beginning to think doesn't exist) in the Wikipedia article quoted on this thread, and I was wondering if that part of the article might have been deleted due to inaccuracy.

Does anyone know if such a homophone actually exists in Cantonese?


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## fyl

Not "one of these 140+ words". I mean ALL of these 140+ have the same sound as 7 (may have different tones). Chinese is full of homophones.
I have no time to check if any one means "sure". But for any meaning you give, with time and effort I believe one of them can be explained to that meaning.



Isidore Demsky said:


> Why would it take time and explanation to connect the two words if they have the same sound?


Because they do not mean exactly "sure", but some are possibly related to "sure". With some effort one is able to "explain" or "connect" them to "sure".
This is what the materials you have heard and read are doing.


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## Isidore Demsky

I've been looking through that Wikipedia article's revision history, and I can't find what I remember reading about the number seven and the word "sure."

Does anyone know if such a homophone exists in Cantonese?

fyl: If there is a word meaning "sure" that "has the same sound as 7," could you please post it here?


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## fyl

Isidore Demsky said:


> I'm confused now.
> Are you right, or is fyl right?
> Is there a word meaning "sure" with "the same sound as 7"?


You are confused. And I am getting extremely frustrated. Mamaunique and I are claiming the same thing. And you still didn't get my point.
Sorry but I'm not going to reply to this thread.


Isidore Demsky said:


> fyl: If there is a word meaning "sure" that "has the same sound as 7," could you please post it here?


NO


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## Isidore Demsky

fyl said:


> Mamaunique and I are claiming the same thing.



Mamaunique said the pronunciations of seven and sure "are very different," and I thought you said they "had the same sound."

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

I don't know if this is where I originally read this, *but are the details accurate?*


> *Seven Has the same sound as “certainty” or “for sure”* (chut) so it goes well with 2 and 8, *72 and 78 sound the same as “certainly easy” and “prosperous for sure” respectively in Cantonese.* Again, try to avoid putting a 7 next to unlucky numbers like 4, 74 sounds the same as “dead for sure” and is considered unlucky.


Cupertino Properties  - Feng Shui and Chinese Numerology

Does "chut" mean both "seven" and "certainty" (or "for sure") in Cantonese?


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## Mamanunique

It's actually 12 and 18 that means "certainly easy" and "prosperous for sure" in Cantonese, not 72 and 78. And the 74 should have been 14.
The quote from the article is wrong.
7 sounds similar to "chut " 出  （go out or come out） in Cantonese. When we are talking about the meaning of numbers, 78 and 72 are not considered to be lucky or unlucky.
There are some people think that more 8 is more lucky, but it has nothing to do with 7.


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## brofeelgood

The pronunciation of "seven" in Cantonese is cat1. The only word I can think of that sounds (remotely) similar and means _*sure*_ or _*certain*_ is 實 (sat6).
- *實*係咁
- It *must (surely)* be like this.

But like I said, the likeness is tenuous.

In fact, more often than not, you'll see 七 employed as a euphemism for *X* (cat6), which means penis in Cantonese.
- 笨七
- dumb prick or one who is easily fooled.

Edit: it's not a displayable character, link added instead.


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## Skatinginbc

just learned a new word from our Bro . 
It puzzles me: Why does that dialectal word go with the 門 radical?


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## brofeelgood

It's a mystery to me too. It would be great if someone with the details could shed some light on this. And it's not just this character, it's the entire set 一門五傑.

They can all be written with either a 門 radical or a 尸 radical.


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## Ghabi

Moderator's Note: The original question has been answered. This thread is now closed to avoid further digression. Thank you for your understanding.


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