# кончить and садитесь



## Holy Dinah

Hello, 

In the past year or so I've been advised to stop using two common Russian words, кончить and the polite imperative of сидеться, both for the same reason: that Russians themselves are moving away from these two words because of their other connotations. 

With кончить/кончать, I've heard that it is now common for Russians to substitute закончить/заканчивать in order to avoid any double entendre. (Others are quite indignant about this, and insist to me that no normal Russian would blink at hearing кончить used sincerely in its proper sense, so....) 

With садитесь (садись), пожалуйста, which is how I was always taught to invite someone to sit down, I've been told it's becoming popular to say присядьте (присядь) instead, to avoid any prison connotations. 

In both cases, the explanation given to me is that воровская культура and/or vulgar language have become so influential in everyday Russian speech and popular culture that these two words are basically victims of this trend. (That is, the connotations may always have been there, but now it's actually become, or is becoming, uncomfortable to use these words.) 

My questions are, is it true that even "порядочные люди" are abandoning the words кончить and садитесь? Are there other perfectly normal words that I should start avoiding? Would it be true to say that феня/мат/etc. are becoming such a part of daily Russian culture that I need to at least understand them to really "get" Russian as it is lived by most (urban) Russians today? 

Спасибо за совет.


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## Kolan

Holy Dinah said:


> In the past year or so I've been advised to stop using two common Russian words, кончить and the polite imperative of сидеться, both for the same reason: that Russians themselves are moving away from these two words because of their other connotations.
> 
> With кончить/кончать, I've heard that it is now common for Russians to substitute закончить/заканчивать in order to avoid any double entendre. (Others are quite indignant about this, and insist to me that no normal Russian would blink at hearing кончить used sincerely in its proper sense, so....)
> 
> With с*а*дитесь (с*а*дись), пожалуйста, which is how I was always taught to invite someone to sit down, I've been told it's becoming popular to say присядьте (присядь) instead, to avoid any prison connotations.
> 
> In both cases, the explanation given to me is that воровская культура and/or vulgar language have become so influential in everyday Russian speech and popular culture that these two words are basically victims of this trend. (That is, the connotations may always have been there, but now it's actually become, or is becoming, uncomfortable to use these words.)
> 
> My questions are, is it true that even "порядочные люди" are abandoning the words кончить and с*а*дитесь? Are there other perfectly normal words that I should start avoiding? Would it be true to say that феня/мат/etc. are becoming such a part of daily Russian culture that I need to at least understand them to really "get" Russian as it is lived by most (urban) Russians today?


While the above may be true for *кончать/кончить*, *садиться/сидеть* are gradually losing its second (criminal) connotation. It used to be much more popular in Soviet times, as well as *уезжать/ехать*.

In 1930 Ильф и Петров already cited a joke, "- Солнце *село*. - На сколько лет?" 

However, "*Кончил* дело - гуляй смело!" still remains beyond double connotation.

Actually, you should not avoid them talknig to _порядочные люди_. They will understand what do you mean.


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## niceguy_

*Holy Dinah, *you risk to be laughed at for dropping something like "я кончил эту работу" or "когда ты кончишь свой отчёт?" It's a clumsy Russian. Use "*за*кончил" instead. 

It's not a big deal saying "Садитесь, пожалуйста!".


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## Kolan

niceguy_ said:


> *Holy Dinah, *you risk to be laughed at for dropping something like "я кончил эту работу" or "когда ты кончишь свой отчёт?" It's a clumsy Russian. Use "*за*кончил" instead.


It may be not too bad, since the examples above is transitive use. A more serious collision takes place when the verb is intransitive.

*Кончить* may also mean *to kill*. That's undoubted criminal slang. "_Кончай её, Сэмен!_" (из Розенбаума).

Since it's a word play, good jokes can be easily elaborated. I recall one with *ехать*. "В театре. - Проснись, Ленский уже послал Онегину вызов! - И что, он-таки *едет*?"


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## Maroseika

Кончить looks quite natural for me and I cannot imagine anybody laughing at this word save of some puberty age persons. Закончить instead of кончить sounds rather unnatural and formal.
I dare recommend you using this word whenever you want.
As for сесть this word should be really avoided in the talk with the criminals. Even better however to avoid such talks at all...


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## PatrickK1

What does ехать mean in the criminal sense?


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## Kolan

PatrickK1 said:


> What does ехать mean in the criminal sense?


It is not criminal, it means "to emigrate", especially in Soviet times.


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## Ptak

*Ехать* does not mean "to emigrate".
It's *уехать* or *уезжать* could mean that, and only in an appropriate context.

*Ехать* itself means just "go" (by transport), not "go away" or "leave". Of course you can say, for example "_Мы долго думали и решили ехать_", but it's the context what means that ехать is "leave" here, not the verb itself. Anyway, it wouldn't mean "to emigrate" to me, even in this sentence.

P.S. However, I agree that in this loke: _"В театре. - Проснись, Ленский уже послал Онегину вызов! - И что, он-таки едет?"_ "едет" does mean "Онегин is going (to emigrate/to leave)". But it's the context, not the verb itself.


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## Holy Dinah

Thanks for the answers...I'm feeling reassured about садитесь.  So would you say it isn't true that воровская культура is having much influence on popular culture and language?
 
I'm still a little suspicious about кончить.  From most posts above, I still get the sense that it might be easy to use it in a way that would inspire grins, especially, as mentioned, in the intransitive form.  (But I think I'd rather learn the boundaries by trial and error than just abandon it altogether--following the philosophy that to really learn a second language, you have to be bold and not mind the occasional wildly hilarious or embarrassing mistake!)


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## Ptak

> Закончить instead of кончить sounds rather unnatural and formal.


I disagree. And I'm not of puberty age 

Holy Dinah, "*сади(те)сь, пожалуйста*" is absolutely fine and commonly used. I'd even say that "*присядь(те)*" sounds like someone talks severely to you, it sounds like a command sometimes, or like an official offers you to sit and wait while he's busy. Whereas "*сади(те)сь, пожалуйста*" sounds very polite. It has not any prison connatations for me.

As for "*кончить / кончать*", it really could sound a bit "embarrassingly" in some situations, even if you are not in a company of puberty age persons. Although in some idiomatic expressions it sounds absolutely fine.
But I wouldn't say it has a _criminal_ connotation. Its very common meaning is "to feel orgasm". Everyone knows this meaning. So be careful using the verb.


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## Kolan

PatrickK1 said:


> What does ехать mean in the criminal sense?


Well, "он (тихо) едет" can also mean "he is going nuts (in a subtle manner)", connotated with "крыша едет", "мозги поехали". Especially, if you use in the past tense perfective, "он поехал", than it would definitely mean "he's gone crazy".


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## Kolan

Holy Dinah said:


> Thanks for the answers...I'm feeling reassured about садитесь.  So would you say it isn't true that воровская культура is having much influence on popular culture and language?


It has much more influence within its natural limits, like in prison. "Только что *присел*, и уже борзеет" would mean that a person who was just arrested and jailed is trying to play hard with his cellmates. "*Сел *на десятку/червонец" means "sentenced for 10 years in prison", "*(от)сидеть *срок" = to serve the (entire) term in prison, *отсидка, ходка *= prison term. You see, it could be  prefixed, depending on context.


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## Ptak

Holy Dinah said:


> So would you say it isn't true that воровская культура is having much influence on popular culture and language?


Holy Dinah, I wouldn't say it's true. This influence is not that much at all. I.e., Kolan's examples
"Только что присел, и уже борзеет"
"Сел на десятку" 
would make sense for me in an appropriate context *only*.

So if you're interested by the prison slang, you know it, if not - you don't see any prison connotations in words of everyday speech.


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## Holy Dinah

> As for "*кончить / кончать*", it really could sound a bit "embarrassingly" in some situations, even if you are not in a company of puberty age persons. So be careful using the verb.


 
Thanks Ptak...it just occured to me to ask, would you say that women are more likely to be careful with this verb, or even avoid this verb (i.e. substitute закончить) than men? If a woman uses it in a way that is accidentally sexual, is that seen as worse than if a man does? (Sorry, I knew that кончить had a sexual sense and not a criminal one, but I don't think that was very clear in my original post.)


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## Ptak

No, Holy Dinah, I wouldn't say that. The word is not rude, it just has this connotation, it could confuse your interlocutors, but it's not _rude_.


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## Nanon

Holy Dinah said:


> With садитесь (садись), пожалуйста, which is how I was always taught to invite someone to sit down, I've been told it's becoming popular to say присядьте (присядь) instead, to avoid any prison connotations.


 
Has anybody mentioned the form "присаживайтесь"? Some speakers  seem to find it more polite than "садитесь"...


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## Ptak

Nanon said:


> Has anybody mentioned the form "присаживайтесь"? Some speakers  seem to find it more polite than "садитесь"...


Well, it depends on the intonation. BUT, with the neutral intonation, I would definitely prefer to hear "*садитесь, пожалуйста*" instead of "*присаживайтесь, пожалуйста*" because even if "присаживайтесь" can be said very blandly, with a neutal intonation it could imply something like: ~"now sit down, well, well... we will have a long (and not very nice) conversation now". Whereas "садитесь" only means "sit down".


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## Nanon

That is why I wrote "some speakers"... not all.

But it seems that in some companies people are instructed _not _to say "садитесь, пожалуйста". In fact I mostly hear "присаживайтесь, пожалуйста" in professional contexts. 
I don't work with those people... but I found this (here):



> В эфире радиостанции «Эхо Москвы» – Виктор Геращенко, доктор экономических наук, с 1992 по 1994 гг. и с 1998 по 2002 гг. - председатель ЦБ России, председатель совета директоров компании ЮКОС.
> 
> А. ВЕНЕДИКТОВ – Начальник пришел, мы в прямом эфире, здравствуйте.
> В. ГЕРАЩЕНКО – Здравствуйте.
> А. ВЕНЕДИКТОВ – До микрофона далеко, да, садитесь, пожалуйста, все, мы эту тему пока заканчиваем.
> В. ГЕРАЩЕНКО – Не садитесь, а присаживайтесь. Слово «садитесь» в ЮКОСе не принимается.
> А. ВЕНЕДИКТОВ – Как вас быстро научили-то.
> В. ГЕРАЩЕНКО – А как же, я там два года все-таки.
> А. ВЕНЕДИКТОВ – Все-таки два года, два года отсидки в совете директоров ЮКОСа.
> В. ГЕРАЩЕНКО – Не отсидки, а работы, интересной работы, есть, о чем будет писать. <...>


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## Ptak

Well, this answer of Геращенко is a sort of black humour. Of course, the word садитесь is not a favourite word in ЮКОС because its head Ходорковский went to prison (его *посадили*, он *сел*). In this case, the word really has a prison connotation, and the context (the interview about ЮКОС) itself says about that. And anyway, there's still a (black) humour in the Геращенко's words, I feel.


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## Nanon

Indeed, this is very caustic! (also valid for the "два года отсидки"...)


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## Kolan

nanon said:


> but it seems that in some companies people are instructed _not _to say "садитесь, пожалуйста".
> ...
> В. ГЕРАЩЕНКО – Не садитесь, а присаживайтесь. Слово «садитесь» в ЮКОСе не принимается.


В доме повешенного не говорят о верёвке. _(Английский _юмор_.)
_


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## edwardintoronto

just because the word 'to sit down' also means 'to get imprisoned' doesnt mean criminal jargon is becoming popular in russian language. i always use 'заканчивать' for 'кончить', 'присаживайтесь' instead of 'садитесь' (never 'присядьте'), 'задняя часть машины' for 'зад машины'. and id advise you to do so too, there are not many words like that so wont be hard to memorise. those who say that you wont be laughed at are living in an imaginary world of good manners of 1800s and are far away from the real life. its like someone in english still trying to use the word 'gay' as in 'happy' totally ignoring the modern usage of this word.


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## Ptak

edwardintoronto said:


> just because the word 'to sit down' also means 'to get imprisoned' *doesnt mean criminal jargon is becoming popular* in russian language.





> *i always use 'заканчивать' for 'кончить', 'присаживайтесь' instead of 'садитесь' (never 'присядьте'), 'задняя часть машины' for 'зад машины'. and id advise you to do so too*, there are not many words like that so wont be hard to memorise. those who say that you wont be laughed at are living in an imaginary world of good manners of 1800s and are far away from the real life. its like someone in english still trying to use the word 'gay' as in 'happy' totally ignoring the modern usage of this word.


It seems like you contradict yourself.

But anyway, I agree with you about the words you mentioned except the word *садитесь* which is very commonly used and for the overwhelming majority of Russians has no any prison connotation (if the context doesn't imply it, of course).
As for "*зад* машины" it's just clumsy Russian. And its "connotation" is not prison, by the way.


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## edwardintoronto

yep majority of russians still living in 1800s. ptak, with all due respect dont tell me you use садитесь, if you do so then you are probably in your 50s or 60s.


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## Hoax

edwardintoronto said:


> yep majority of russians still living in 1800s. ptak, with all due respect dont tell me you use садитесь, if you do so then you are probably in your 50s or 60s.


 
I am under 30 and I use "садитесь".
Если у Вас это вызывает смех, срочно отключайте телевизор и компьютер от сети и меняйте круг общения.


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## edwardintoronto

i have no idea i bother. keep using it.


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## Hoax

edwardintoronto said:


> i have no idea i bother. Keep using it.


 
Смею предположить, что это уже не проблемы языка, а проблемы культуры в обществе экспатов.


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## Ptak

edwardintoronto said:


> if you do so then you are probably in your 50s or 60s.


I'm much, much younger. 
And if _you_ see only criminal connotation in this word, I... am afraid of you.


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