# Hindi: Gotya



## maxguncel

Hi.

I'm translating the movie *Singham*.

A man's nickname is *Gotya* and he doesn't like to be called like that.

What does *Gotya* mean?


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## Qureshpor

maxguncel said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm translating the movie *Singham*.
> 
> A man's nickname is *Gotya* and he doesn't like to be called like that.
> 
> What does *Gotya* mean?





I presume you mean the film "Sangam"?

Can you provide the context in the form of one or two sentences please.


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## maxguncel

QURESHPOR said:


> I presume you mean the film "Sangam"?
> 
> Can you provide the context in the form of one or two sentences please.



No, its Singham - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1948150/

There is nothing to provide as context. It is just a word used as a nickname which is not nice to say I think.


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## Qureshpor

This is my (educated?) guess.

gaa'oN-goT means a village. So, a "goTiyaa" would be a "villager", someone "rustic" as opposed to a "shahrii" (of a city) and therefore "refined".


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## maxguncel

Thank you, I can use slang version of "villager".


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## greatbear

I haven't seen the movie, but imdb tells me that "Gotya" is the other character name of "Gautam Bhonsle": it simply seems to me that Gautam is shortened to Gotya by someone, maybe to demean or insult him, and hence this Gautam says not to truncate his name, but call it by full respect.
I don't think there may be any other thing here, since there is no word like gotya in Hindi, otherwise.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> I haven't seen the movie, but imdb tells me that "Gotya" is the other character name of "Gautam Bhonsle": it simply seems to me that Gautam is shortened to Gotya by someone, maybe to demean or insult him, and hence this Gautam says not to truncate his name, but call it by full respect.
> I don't think there may be any other thing here, since there is no word like gotya in Hindi, otherwise.




gb, what you have said makes perfect sense. Gotiya is most likely to be a corruption of "Gautam". "goT" does mean village but it seems this word is not connected with the character.


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## drkpp

This is a Marathi colloquial nick name used in Bambaiyaa Hindi.
Gota in Marathi means 'a stone'. In colloquial language it is used 
to mean a person who is as dumb as a stone i.e. a person with less intelligence. 
If it is used as a name, it should be transliterated and NOT translated.


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## Qureshpor

drkpp said:


> This is a Marathi colloquial nick name used in Bambaiyaa Hindi.
> Gota in Marathi means 'a stone'. In colloquial language it is used
> to mean a person who is as dumb as a stone i.e. a person with less intelligence.
> If it used as a name, it should be transliterated and NOT translated.




Very interesting. The plot thickens! In Punjabi there is a word for stone which could be related to this. It is "giiTaa".


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## Faylasoof

I too haven’t seen the film so can’t say what this nickname means (if it means anything at all since nicknames can at times be notoriously difficult to decipher) or what is its derivation. However, in Urdu and Colloquial Hindi the word _gotiyaa_ / _gotiy__ā_ does exist! This is not to say that this word has anything to do with the nickname  Gotyā (=Gotyaa) or  Gotiyā (=Gotiyaa), depending on how the name is pronounced. So just for the record:


H گوتيا गोतिया _gotiyā_, s.m.=_gotī_, q.v.


H گوتي गोती _gotī_ [S. गोत्रिकः], adj. & s.m. Relating to a family; of or belonging to the same family or race, &c.;—one of the same stock, a kinsman, relative, family connexion


This _gotii_ is distinguished from _goTii_ as follows:

H گوٿي गोटी _goṭī _[S. गुटिका], s.f. A small roundish stone or pebble; a piece or man (at ćausar, &c.=goṭ); a pustule; a pock; the small-pox.


  Used as an insult – _abe goTiyaa_! 


Then there are these too to keep in mind, as some related to the above, others not quite:


H گوتا गोता _gotā_ = H گوت गोत _got_ [S. गो+त्रं, and त्रकं, rt. त्रै], s.m. Family, race, parentage, lineage, kith and kin, family stock; family name; a caste (collectively); subdivision of a tribe or caste; genus; class or species.



H گوتا गोता _gotā_, s.m. Mustard-seed(?).



H گوٿا गोटा _goṭā_ [_goṭ_ = S. कोटि+कः], s.m. Edging; gold or silver lace (rather narrow); a narrow fillet of brocade; a preparation of coriander seeds, cocoa-nut, cardamoms, and coffee, &c. (in this sense perhaps from Prk. goṭṭha; S. goshṭha):—goṭā-kinārī, s.f. Edging of gold or silver lace:—goṭā-wālā, s.m. A maker (or a seller) of edging, lace, braid, &c.

The last is also used as the word _goT = __Edging; gold or silver lace. _

BTW, there is also _jamaal goTaa_ that we eat! It is made with coconut, cardamoms, fennel seeds, coriander seeds etc. No coffee!


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## greatbear

Interesting! Had always used goTii for the pawn you play in a board game, never for pebbles in general. It's surprising though that the dictionary doesn't mention the board game meaning.


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> Interesting! Had always used goTii for the pawn you play in a board game, never for pebbles in general. It's surprising though that the dictionary doesn't mention the board game meaning.


 Actually it does! 



Faylasoof said:


> I too haven’t seen the film so can’t say what this nickname means (if it means anything at all since nicknames can at times be notoriously difficult to decipher) or what is its derivation. However, in Urdu and Colloquial Hindi the word _gotiyaa_ / _gotiy__ā_ does exist! This is not to say that this word has anything to do with the nickname Gotyā (=Gotyaa) or Gotiyā (=Gotiyaa), depending on how the name is pronounced. So just for the record:
> 
> 
> H گوتيا गोतिया _gotiyā_, s.m.=_gotī_, q.v.
> 
> 
> H گوتي गोती _gotī_ [S. गोत्रिकः], adj. & s.m. Relating to a family; of or belonging to the same family or race, &c.;—one of the same stock, a kinsman, relative, family connexion
> 
> This _gotii_ is distinguished from _goTii_ as follows:
> 
> H گوٿي गोटी _goṭī _[S. गुटिका], s.f. A small roundish stone or pebble; _*a piece or man (at ćausar, &c.=goṭ)*_; a pustule; a pock; the small-pox.
> 
> *.....
> 
> *



We call it _*chausar =*_ *ćausar* - as Platts spells it above.... and by *piece or man *he means a pawn.


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## greatbear

Ah yes, I also spell it chausar; thanks, so it does!


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## maxguncel

I'm confused. Should I translate it or just leave it.


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## Qureshpor

maxguncel said:


> I'm confused. Should I translate it or just leave it.




I have just seen the scene on Youtube where "Gautam" is being called "goTiya". It seems that even though he hails from a village, he appears to be looking down upon his fellow villagers now that he has become a city dweller! Despite all this, I would go along with the explanation that it was his name Gautam that was corrupted to "goTiya" in the days when he had a rather humble existence.

So, my suggestion would be to keep the word "goTiya" and provide an explanation in the footnote that this was his nickname in the past when he was growing up in his native village.


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## maxguncel

QURESHPOR said:


> I have just seen the scene on Youtube where "Gautam" is being called "goTiya". It seems that even though he hails from a village, he appears to be looking down upon his fellow villagers now that he has become a city dweller! Despite all this, I would go along with the explanation that it was his name Gautam that was corrupted to "goTiya" in the days when he had a rather humble existence.
> 
> So, my suggestion would be to keep the word "goTiya" and provide an explanation in the footnote that this was his nickname in the past when he was growing up in his native village.



All right, thanks.


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## rahulbemba

maxguncel said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm translating the movie *Singham*.
> 
> A man's nickname is *Gotya* and he doesn't like to be called like that.
> 
> What does *Gotya* mean?



My Marathi friends confirm that it is a nickname used in Marathi (Singham movie was set in Maharashtra and has lots of Marathi words). 

He says, *"gotya is just another nick name, derived from goti means marble balls we play ... glass ones... "*

Small kids play with small glass/marble balls, in many ways like trying to shoot a target with it or hit other small glass balls with it. Such glass balls are called "goti" in Hindi. This nick name "Gotya" has come from this game and is a nick name of kids. 

Since the kid had become grownup in the movie and become an officer, he was not comfortable being called by his nick name which made a connection towards this small kids game of "goti".


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## rahulbemba

QURESHPOR said:


> This is my (educated?) guess.
> 
> gaa'oN-goT means a village. So, a "goTiyaa" would be a "villager", someone "rustic" as opposed to a "shahrii" (of a city) and therefore "refined".





maxguncel said:


> Thank you, I can use slang version of "villager".



Please don't use it as a slang version of villager. Because the blind guess by QURESHPOR, who has an Urdu background, is wrong. Please check my reply above and also check reply by some others in this thread who are closer to the real meaning; some are very correct too.


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## Qureshpor

rahulbemba said:


> Please don't use it as a slang version of villager. Because the blind guess by QURESHPOR, who has an Urdu background, is wrong. Please check my reply above and also check reply by some others in this thread who are closer to the real meaning; some are very correct too.




*maxguncel will no doubt make his choice using his own intellect as a guide.

The question was about the meaning of the word "Gotya" (goTiyaa). 

I offered an explanation, with a question mark over my response, suggesting that it could be connected with the word "goT" for village. greatbear then added that goTiyaa could be a corruption of Gautam as the character's name in the film is Gautam. I indicated that greatbear's reply makes sense. "goTii" etc then came into the discussion but no one suggested that it was linked to "Gotya" playing with "goTiis". Further to this, when the enquirer became confused due to the conflicting answers, I made the suggestion (Post 15) that he should use the word "goTiyaa" with a footnote explaining that it is a nickname of old. You ** have **conveniently decided to ignore this post as well.

You have now provided information from your Marathi friends according to whom the name "goTiyaa" is based on "goTii". This is fine and **maxguncel would be more than happy with a difinitive answer. But, you did not stop at this. You had to go the extra mile and resort to a personal attack!

For your information, my explanation of the word "goTiyaa" being connected to the word "goT" was not a "blind guess". If it were a blind guess, I would have just given a meaning without any background information. You are also obviously oblivious of the fact that the word "goT" is common to both Urdu and Hindi and my being from an Urdu background is totally irrelevant and it just highlights your state of mind more than anything else. Are you implying that only people from "Hindi background" should respond to threads with the "Hindi" marker on them? It is said, "Love is blind". Hate must be even more blind!

By the way, if Gautam has got the nickname "goTiyaa" because in his childhood he used to play with "goTiis", why was he the only one to get this name? Did he play on his own?
*


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## rahulbemba

*The words "gota" and "goti" are same, like chuha and chuhiya. A bigger piece is "gota" and a smaller one is "goti".* I see many members had indicated towards its connection with gotya.

*The nickname in the movie, "gotya" has nothing to do with a villager or a rustic*, which I see was not a blind guess but an educated one though misplaced one. It should never be used as a slang for "villager" which maxguncel concluded after your post - and I said it was totally wrong - I stay with this assertion.

Now you are asking, "if Gautam has got the nickname "goTiyaa" because in his childhood he used to play with "goTiis", why was he the only one to get this name? Did he play on his own?"

1) You are thinking or asserting that I am wrong. And my Marathi friend is wrong who says this is a common nick name in Maharashtra. Please don't show such "contempt" on other members just for the sake of an argument.

2) My friend at the same time said that *if the guy's good name was Gautam, it was easier to twist it into the nick name "Gotya" and I agreed with him. But, this doesn't change what "Gotya means", which was the original question asked by the member. *I hope you would agree that we are not diving too much into specifics but want a simple answer for "what does Gotya mean?". If someone provide a simple and straight answer, please don't batter him. 

*If tomorrow there is a boy in Maharashtra with nick name Gotya, please don't consider him a "villager" which was your educated but wrong guess. Also, please don't "assume" that even his good name would be Gautam.*

I hope I am clear. We have the advantage of such a forum that people from a diverse set of backgrounds are here. But that doesn't mean that they should ignore or rebuff something said by a member who lives in and out of the exact place. My Marathi friend is born and brought up in Maharashtra, his view is not like your view. His view is ground level reality. Please learn to respect others points.


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## Illuminatus

I'm a native Marathi speaker, and I've seen the whole movie. goTe does refer to marbles or similar sized objects, as other people have already explained in detail. However, I don't feel that the game of marbles played by kids has much bearing on the issue.

There are two factors at play here—
1. People using a -ya nickname 
2. People using the nickname goTya in particular

In Maharashtra, it's a common practice to form nicknames (I would rather call them appellations) by adding the -ya ending to modified forms of names. For instance, my father's friend, whose name is Prakash, is called, Pakya.

However, -ya appellations are used either for kids or for close friends with whom one is on very familiar terms. It will be rude to use it for a stranger, or for your boss or anyone with whom you are not on familiar terms, or in social situations where propriety demands it. In general, you won't use it with elders either, and wives won't generally use it for their husbands. 

The character Gautam spent his childhood in the village, but has been shown to become very successful in life and a very influential businessman. It would be insulting for him to be referred to by the whole village using his childhood nickname, which is inherently pejorative unless used by people very close to you. And certainly if people younger than him, like his daughter or her lover, use it, they are undermining not only his social stature, but also his seniority. As a native Marathi speaker, I can confirm that a -ya nickname used by anyone other than those who are within the relevant social circle is very insulting.

In my opinion, this doesn't have a lot to do with referring to childhood games involving marbles. I feel there is another reason why this name would be more insulting. 

goTe (गोटे) is a common slang for testicles, due to the obvious similarities in the shape and size of the two things. This _might be _an explanation of why his nickname was  goTyaa as opposed to gotyaa, considering that the _t _sound in gautam is dental, unlike the retroflex in goTyaa. It is possible that Gautam finds this name all the more insulting due to this reference. However, this is just a hypothesis, especially because I wouldn't expect elders in the village to use a sexually-loaded nickname for their kids. It is mostly then just a case of people wanting to 'show him his real place' by refusing to acknowledge his money or fame, and continuing to refer to him using an insulting nickname.

*maxguncel*, coming back to your actual task, I think it would be best if you used an insulting Turkish nickname (or whatever language you are translating to) that sounded a bit like the name of the character you've chosen in your translation. Of course, this is assuming that this reply isn't too late!


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## Qureshpor

Illuminatus, thank you for your extremely informative post. It is much appreciated.


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