# This is / these are my wife and son



## Magg

Hi and good morning all.

Today's question is about the following sentence:

*This is  my wife and son.*

It surprised me whe I read it since I would have used 'are' instead of 'is'.

Why is it that way?

Thanks,
Magg


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## 22caps

The reason it is "is" and not "are" is because "is" is conjugated based on what precedes it (This).  The word "this" is singular, so you use "is".  Why wouldn't you say "these are my wife and son"... well, technically it sounds okay, but "this is....." is somewhat of an expression.  An equivalent in spanish would be if someone presented me with a box and I said "¿Qué es esto?"  Even though I know it's a box, I don't say "ésta".  It's just somewhat of an expression.


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> Hi and good morning all.
> 
> Today's question is about the following sentence:
> 
> *This is  my wife and son.*
> 
> It surprised me whe I read it since I would have used 'are' instead of 'is'.
> 
> Why is it that way?
> 
> Thanks,
> Magg


Hola Magg,  
Buenos días.  Una mañana perfecta tenemos--el café, un poco de rocío helado en el jardín, y una pregunta difícil.

I disagree with Caps.  The original English is wrong.  It should be a plural pronoun, and thus 'are' rather than 'is'.

This is my dogs George and Dick?!!!!!!!   NO.
These are my wife and son.  YES

The example Caps gave about 'esto' for the box is a good example of how to use 'esto' to describe something indefinite or conceptual, but most people don't have conceptual family members!

If the English sentences had been, "This is my wife Elderberry, and my son Ebenezer." it would be corrrect, as there is another, implicit "this is" before
'and my son...'.

Thanks for a question that forced me to wake up.

Un abrazo,
Qxu


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## Artrella

Magg said:
			
		

> Hi and good morning all.
> 
> Today's question is about the following sentence:
> 
> *This is  my wife and son.*
> 
> It surprised me whe I read it since I would have used 'are' instead of 'is'.
> 
> Why is it that way?
> 
> Thanks,
> Magg



}

Wrong!! This is my wife and this is my son.  But These are my wife and son.


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## Julian Montaño

I agree it is a good question. However I think it all depends on the context the phrase is in. Keep in mind that spoken and written language differ.

So in order to translate it correctly you should focus on the context in order to express in Spanish the same meaning of the original phrase. 

have a good one...!


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## badger

Artrella said:
			
		

> }
> 
> Wrong!! This is my wife and this is my son.  But These are my wife and son.



I'm sure I'm out of my depth here, bearing in mind that my signature line is true.

*These are my wife and son.*

Doesn't sound right to my ear, but *These two people are my wife and son.* does.

bad.


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## dave

Fascinating! I think Badger has a point.

I believe the vast majority (perhaps 90% +) of British English speakers would naturally say 
_*This is* my wife and son_
and many would also argue that
_*These are* my wife and son_
sounds too ridiculous to be correct.

The lesson here, Magg, is that English speakers are perhaps the worst in the world at observing their own 'rules' of grammar! Possibly because many of our rules were invented by Victorian classicists who were convinced that the rules of Latin grammar could be applied equally to English (but that might be a discussion topic for another thread!)


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## Artrella

badger said:
			
		

> I'm sure I'm out of my depth here, bearing in mind that my signature line is true.
> 
> *These are my wife and son.*
> 
> Doesn't sound right to my ear, but *These two people are my wife and son.* does.
> 
> bad.




Why Bad?? Is it because it seems a little rude to say "Estos son mi mujer y mi hijo"  Yes, it seems as if they were things not people!  Is it right???
So it's better to say "These two people" and not only "These..." 
Is it the reason?
Thx Art


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## cristóbal

Artrella said:
			
		

> Why Bad?? Is it because it seems a little rude to say "Estos son mi mujer y mi hijo"  Yes, it seems as if they were things not people!  Is it right???
> So it's better to say "These two people" and not only "These..."
> Is it the reason?
> Thx Art



I think the reason it sounds bad has nothing to do with rudeness...although that's an interesting point.  It's just a question of normal usage in everyday speech.
I personally would also say "This is my wife and son", or "This is my mom and dad" but once you introduce a number, as Cuchu pointed out, it sounds ridiculous to say "This is my two dogs."  But... "This is my dog and cat" doesn't sound so bad either.
Nevertheless, I agree that it is incorrect... but it's nonetheless the popular way to say it.  I think also that in "This is my wife and [this is my] son" the [this is my] is implied and thus doesn't sound wrong to us.
It is more or less a manner of introduction: "This is my brother" "This is the Pope" ... doesn't matter who you're introducing, you still use "This" as if the person were an object.  Might seem rude to a non-native speaker, but to us, it's as normal as fireworks and cherry pie on the fourth of july.


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## cuchuflete

cristóbal said:
			
		

> I think the reason it sounds bad has nothing to do with rudeness...although that's an interesting point.  It's just a question of normal usage in everyday speech.
> I personally would also say "This is my wife and son", or "This is my mom and dad" but once you introduce a number, as Cuchu pointed out, it sounds ridiculous to say "This is my two dogs."  But... "This is my dog and cat" doesn't sound so bad either.
> Nevertheless, I agree that it is incorrect... but it's nonetheless the popular way to say it.  I think also that in "This is my wife and [this is my] son" the [this is my] is implied and thus doesn't sound wrong to us.
> It is more or less a manner of introduction: "This is my brother" "This is the Pope" ... doesn't matter who you're introducing, you still use "This" as if the person were an object.  Might seem rude to a non-native speaker, but to us, it's as normal as fireworks and cherry pie on the fourth of july.


Good explanation Cris.  However.....what would we do with "This is my firecracker and cherry pie."  Could it be that in referring to inanimate objects we shift the 'rules' away from grammar and toward the 'right' sound?

Cuchu


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## cristóbal

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Good explanation Cris.  However.....what would we do with "This is my firecracker and cherry pie."  Could it be that in referring to inanimate objects we shift the 'rules' away from grammar and toward the 'right' sound?
> 
> Cuchu



Beats me. 

Seriously though, I think English speech is free game... We rarely pay attention to rules.  I'm super-stickler for correct English grammar when it comes to writing, but I catch myself all too often breaking the rules when I'm talking.  Oh we american hypocrits... what shall we do with ourselves?


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## Magg

Seriously, after reading your comments I'm not sure about using the singular version o the plural one.

The sentence has been taken from a kids' book (Cambridge or Oxford, don't remember), and maybe that's why Badge doesn't find the expression odd.

On the other hand, I also see what Cuchuflete claims and, grammatically speaking, I'm be on his side. Yet, taking into account your opinions I ask myself: wouldn't it be that the correct sentence is *This is my wife and this is my son*, making use of ellipsis so as not to sound repetitive?

Don't know; just guessing.

PS: Cuchu, no está nada mal tu comienzo matutino. Tu descripción matinal invita a ir a tomar el primer café del día a la 'aldea'.

Saludos


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## cristóbal

Magg said:
			
		

> *This is my wife and this is my son*, making use of ellipsis so as not to sound repetitive?



Sounds like you've got yourself a plan. 
I'm a firm believer that it is better to err on the side of correctness.


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## Magg

cristóbal said:
			
		

> Sounds like you've got yourself a plan.
> I'm a firm believer that it is better to err on the side of correctness.




Good heavens, Cristobal, you may make fun of me but, seriously, I'm not sure I've grasped your last sentence. 
Would you enlighten me?


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## cristóbal

Magg said:
			
		

> Good heavens, Cristobal, you may make fun of me but, seriously, I'm not sure I've grasped your last sentence.
> Would you enlighten me?




I wouldn't dare make fun of you!  What I meant was that I believe it is better to make the "mistake" of using the form that you know is correct than to use the coloquial way that may or may not be grammatically correct.

Hope that clears it up...
I think the reason you didn't understand was the way I put it together, with idioms such as "I'm a firm believer" and "It's better to err on the side of..."


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## Magg

cristóbal said:
			
		

> I think the reason you didn't understand was the way I put it together, with idioms such as "I'm a firm believer" and "It's better to err on the side of..."



Actually, I understood 'the believer' part, but the last one confused me.

Thanks, Cristóbal.


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## zebedee

> wouldn't it be that the correct sentence is *This is my wife and this is my son*, making use of ellipsis so as not to sound repetitive?



Got it in one, Maggs!
The correct grammar is *These are my wife and son*, but in spoken English it's more frequent to say: *This is my wife and [this is my] son.*


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## rainy7

Although "This is my wife and son" may not be exactly gramatically precise, I would have to agree with the other comments in that it sounds much more natural than some of the other options mentioned.
Perhaps, as suggested, this is because the "and *this is* my son" is already implied, or maybe even that the 'this' does not necessarily refer to either person, rather to some kind of abstract idea to represent (in this instance) the people who you are introducing.
Although interestingly this would not seem to work when referring to inanimate objects...
The mysterious world of English grammar


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## badger

Magg said:
			
		

> Seriously, after reading your comments I'm not sure about using the singular version o the plural one.
> 
> The sentence has been taken from a kids' book (Cambridge or Oxford, don't remember), and maybe that's why Badge doesn't find the expression odd.
> 
> On the other hand, I also see what Cuchuflete claims and, grammatically speaking, I'm be on his side. Yet, taking into account your opinions I ask myself: wouldn't it be that the correct sentence is *This is my wife and this is my son*, making use of ellipsis so as not to sound repetitive?
> 
> Don't know; just guessing.
> 
> PS: Cuchu, no está nada mal tu comienzo matutino. Tu descripción matinal invita a ir a tomar el primer café del día a la 'aldea'.
> 
> Saludos





*This is my wife and this is my son*, making use of ellipsis so as not to sound repetitive?




This sounds fine to me.

There is another point i'd like to make.

In spoken English or in a dialog text "these are my wife and son" sound ok if the speaker indicates with a gesture to his wife and son.  But it would give it a harsh tone to me. b


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## dave

rainy7 said:
			
		

> Although interestingly this would not seem to work when referring to inanimate objects...


Not necessarily ...

_This is a knife and fork, that is cup and saucer._

Sounds fairly natural to me. It seems that we use the singular where we perceive the two (or more) people or things as forming a set. What do you think of these?:

_A mum and dad is what all children need.
Sausage and mash is delicious._

Just a thought!



			
				rainy7 said:
			
		

> The mysterious world of English grammar/QUOTE]
> Can't argue with that!


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## jacinta

What an interesting thread this is.  I wish that I had kept all my writings from grammar school so that I could pull out the rules when I need them!!  I haven't thought so hard about them (the rules) since then.

English speakers tune their ears quickly to what sounds right and stick with that.  The rule is forgotten and given up for what sounds best.  I would never say "These are my wife and son."  How weird is that??!!  But as I think harder on it, it sounds fine!  I would never say it though, and I would think the person saying it to me is a little weird or affected in some way.  Ha, ha.  But then, again, I agree with Cuchu in that English learners need to know the correct form and will not be wrong in using it.  We know that in time, they will learn the "right" way!!!


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## Magg

zebedee said:
			
		

> Got it in one, Maggs!
> The correct grammar is *These are my wife and son*, but in spoken English it's more frequent to say: *This is my wife and [this is my] son.*



Thanks, Zebedee, you made me feel I bit intelligent today.   Just kidding.


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## zebedee

dave said:
			
		

> Not necessarily ...
> 
> _This is a knife and fork, that is cup and saucer._
> 
> Sounds fairly natural to me. *It seems that we use the singular where we perceive the two (or more) people or things as forming a set*. What do you think of these?:
> 
> _A mum and dad is what all children need.
> Sausage and mash is delicious._
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rainy7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mysterious world of English grammar/QUOTE]
> Can't argue with that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I think that's the reason why. I'd just add:
> Sausage and mash with gravy is delicious.
Click to expand...


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## Magg

Thanks all for your comments. It's clearer now.


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## badger

Then whats the correct way to say this.

The yolk of an egg is white.

or

The yolk of an egg are white.

 b.


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## Magg

zebedee said:
			
		

> I agree, I think that's the reason why. I'd just add:
> Sausage and mash with gravy is delicious.



Zebedee,

Your last example wouldn't have arisen the same doubt to me, I think, because here it is supposed you're referring to a meal consisting of several things.

Un saludo


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## Magg

badger said:
			
		

> Then whats the correct way to say this.
> 
> The yolk of an egg is white.
> 
> or
> 
> The yolk of an egg are white.
> 
> b.



It's weird that a Spanish tries to give an explanation on English to a Dubliner, but I'd say the answer is *'is'*, because you're not referring to two different things, but one: the yolk, although you're mentioning two, but the second one is somehow classifying the first.

Thoughts are welcome!


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## cuchuflete

Magg,

The coffee starts at about 5:30 de la madrugada, just after I go out for firewood.
Best to come before the snow gets too deep.  And English grammar books are forbidden before Noon!  
Cuchu


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## dave

badger said:
			
		

> Then whats the correct way to say this.
> 
> The yolk of an egg is white.
> 
> or
> 
> The yolk of an egg are white.
> 
> b.



   
My mum used to get me with this all the time when I was little. Let's see how you get on!


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## dave

Magg said:
			
		

> It's weird that a Spanish tries to give an explanation on English to a Dubliner, but I'd say the answer is *'is'*, because you're not referring to two different things, but one: the yolk, although you're mentioning two, but the second one is somehow classifying the first.
> 
> Thoughts are welcome!



Magg - es muy tramposo, este tejón irlandes!


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## Artrella

badger said:
			
		

> Then whats the correct way to say this.
> 
> The yolk of an egg is white.
> 
> or
> 
> The yolk of an egg are white
> 
> b.




Ja, ja, ja, ja!!!!!!











Now, tell me this: ¿Qué es más pesado: un kilo de plomo o un kilo de plumas?


Art


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## dave

Artrella said:
			
		

> Now, tell me this: ¿Qué es más pesado: un kilo de plomo o un kilo de plumas?
> Art



Yes, my mum used to get me with this one too!


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## Magg

dave said:
			
		

> Magg - es muy tramposo, este tejón irlandes!



UUMMM I'm afraid I'm missing something.
UUMMM Creo que me estoy perdiendo algo.


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## jacinta

badger said:
			
		

> Then whats the correct way to say this.
> 
> The yolk of an egg is white.
> 
> or
> 
> The yolk of an egg are white.
> 
> b.




Magg-  Now look at this VEERRRYY carefully.  Read each word and think about the words and their meanings.  Then come back to us and I'll bet you look like this:


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## belén

Me habéis tenido un rato locaaaaaaaaaa con eso...
Al final he hecho trampa y he buscado en el google...

Toc toc is there a belen in there???


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> UUMMM I'm afraid I'm missing something.
> UUMMM Creo que me estoy perdiendo algo.


Here's a clue Magg---it's all about what they feed the Irish hens, to make them do strange things.

un abrazo,
cuchu


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## Magg

AAHHHH!  ¡Qué vegüenza!  

Belén, debería haber hecho lo mismo que tú. ¡Qué imprudencia la mía! Me siento un poco estúpida. 

Cuchu, gracias por la pista.

Artrella, gracias por tu comentario privado.

Badge, you're a naughty boy, aren't you?   

Besitos a todos,
Magg


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## badger

Magg said:
			
		

> AAHHHH!  ¡Qué vegüenza!
> 
> Belén, debería haber hecho lo mismo que tú. ¡Qué imprudencia la mía! Me siento un poco estúpida.
> 
> Cuchu, gracias por la pista.
> 
> Artrella, gracias por tu comentario privado.
> 
> Badge, you're a naughty boy, aren't you?
> 
> Besitos a todos,
> Magg



Good morning Magg from rainy Dublin.

Please excuse my little joke, and I was after bigger fish but they wouldn't bite.

And even *you* weren't caught because to be caught one must say *The yolk of an egg is white * and not just *is*.

On the contrary I'm the one left with *egg on his chin*.

I'm glad that you're such a good sport. bad


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## Chaucer

Magg said:
			
		

> Hi and good morning all.
> 
> Today's question is about the following sentence:
> 
> *This is  my wife and son.*
> 
> It surprised me whe I read it since I would have used 'are' instead of 'is'.
> 
> Why is it that way?
> 
> Thanks,
> Magg




What a pleasure the contemplation this. However, take me solipsistically if you will on this one:

*This person is my wife and this person is my son.*

I see that both "this" and "these" are both quite functionable, and there is no reason I would not be capable of using both. For personal taste, I will probably use "this". And should anyone ask me or I requery (ignore the programming jargon) myself about "this" vs. "these", I'll remember to say that "this" is the equivalent of "this person" elipsed, and that the repetitive "this person" has also been elipsed.

I'll probably add that my assumption of an implied "person" is in response to the implied other's mentally formulated question (instigated by the situation of my having turned his attention in another direction, obligating him/her into asking the basic questions of _Who?, What?, Where?, When?_) of _Who is this [person]?_-- "This ['person', elipsed] is my wife;" and if it includes more than one person being introduced, then my elipsis for purposes of avoiding repetition is in response to the other's extended mental question of _and who is this [(other) 'person']?_-- "and this ['person', elipsed] is my son."

*These people are my wife and son.*

I may elect to use "These are my wife and son"; and if asked why the use of "these", that it is in answer to the other's naturally formulated mental question on having his/her attention diverted to those "people" standing by me as I am about to introduce them: _Who are these ['people'] (that you have diverted my attention toward)_-- "These ['people', elipsed] are my wife and son."


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## Magg

Si un gallo en lo alto de un tejado pone un huevo, ¿hacia qué lado del tejado caerá el huevo?

(Esta es prima hermana de la de Badge)

Y yo buscando reglas gramaticales.......


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## Chaucer

Magg said:
			
		

> Si un gallo en lo alto de un tejado pone un huevo, ¿hacia qué lado del tejado caerá el huevo?
> 
> (Esta es prima hermana de la de Badge)
> 
> Y yo buscando reglas gramaticales.......



*There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your Grammar.*


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## Artrella

Magg said:
			
		

> Si un gallo en lo alto de un tejado pone un huevo, ¿hacia qué lado del tejado caerá el huevo?
> 
> (Esta es prima hermana de la de Badge)
> 
> Y yo buscando reglas gramaticales.......




Bien Magg!!!!


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## belén

Si hay un accidente de avión entre España y Francia, ¿dónde enterrarán a los supervivientes?


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## David

It´s grammatically "wrong," but idomatically correct...

Who´s there?
It´s me! ¨("Should" be It's I, but nobody says that.)

A formal person might well say, "These are my wife and son," and a more informal speaker would say "this is my wife and son." I think I normally say "This is my son, and this is my daughter-in-law," not This is my son and daughter-in-law.


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> Si un gallo en lo alto de un tejado pone un huevo, ¿hacia qué lado del tejado caerá el huevo?
> 
> (Esta es prima hermana de la de Badge)
> 
> Y yo buscando reglas gramaticales.......



I'll give you the answer when pigs can fly, and when roosters lay eggs!


Here's another clue I was going to leave for you.  You obviously don't need it now.

<<Hillbilly English: Don't that just crack yer yaller? (Yaller a reference to egg yolk)>>

abrazos,
Cuchu


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