# Epstein



## rmatthew

Hello, the name I would like translate is my last name, which is Epstein. I know it's pronounced multiple ways, but the way that I pronounce it is: Eps-teen. I recently paid a site to translate it for me, but they gave me 2 different translations and I am not sure which one is correct. The only reason correctness matters to me is because I am going to get a tattoo of it, so I really don't want to get something permanent that could possibly be wrong. I'll upload the two different translations (they're in pictures). The first translation I received was the one on the right. Any input that I could receive on this would be really appreciated (the more the better!). Thanks in advance for the help!View attachment epstein 11.pdf


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## arielipi

אפסטין
is epstin
אפשטין
is epshteyn.


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## refiZ

אפסטין  is how you would write it as you say it. If you want the last half to rhyme with eye-n, then put two yuds. (אפסטיין).

What you are looking for is a 'transliteration', not a translation. Also, it is not really in Hebrew, but rather Yiddish. If you want a translation to Hebrew, that is a different thing. Many Jews translated their names into Hebrew when they made Aliyah.

There is a famous Israeli pilot who was named Giora Epstein (pronounced Epshtein) גיורא אפשטיין‎ who is now Giora Even (גיורא אבן). So this is an example of the re-Hebraized version. However, I don't know Yiddish, so I can't say if this is a translation or just his personal taste.


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## rmatthew

Thank you all for the responses! I know that Hebrew and Yiddish use the same alphabet (Hebrew alphabet), would the transliteration be the same in both Yiddish and Hebrew, or are they different? If it is different and easier to transliterate to Yiddish, I would consider getting it in that as well (considering it is was what my grandfather's parents spoke when they emigrated to the USA over a century ago).


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## airelibre

Hebrew and Yiddish use the same alphabet but the rules are a bit different. In Yiddish these are the spellings:
"Epstin" עפסטין
Epstein (like train) עפסטיין
Epshtein עפשטיין
Epstein (like mine) עפסטײַן
Epshtein עפשטײַן


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## rmatthew

Thanks airelibre. Just out of curiosity, which one is the one that is pronounced similar Eps-teen, and how do you pronounce your's? Also, does Yiddish use nikud like Hebrew does?


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## Drink

I just want to point out that "Epstein" was originally Yiddish and the original Yiddish was עפּשטיין (epshteyn, pronounced with the "ai" in "train"). But if you really want to transcribe it back into Yiddish from English instead of using the original Yiddish, than עפּסטין is the one that is pronounced "Ep-steen".


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## rmatthew

That makes sense. Is there only one spelling in Yiddish for Epstein, and is that it? Or is there different ways that people spelt the same name? I'm trying to go for accuracy, I don't want to get a tattoo of something and get it wrong. If עפּשטיין is traditionally more correct, I'd be more inclined to go with that.


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## rmatthew

Also say by chance someone who speaks Yiddish were to see my tattoo, would they understand the meaning and not be puzzled by it? As in, when they see עפּשטיין, would they know that it is Epstein?


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## Drink

rmatthew said:


> That makes sense. Is there only one spelling in Yiddish for Epstein, and is that it? Or is there different ways that people spelt the same name? I'm trying to go for accuracy, I don't want to get a tattoo of something and get it wrong. If עפּשטיין is traditionally more correct, I'd be more inclined to go with that.



That is the only spelling, but YIVO Standard Yiddish puts a dot in the letter פ, while non-standard Yiddish may or may not do so.



rmatthew said:


> Also say by chance someone who speaks Yiddish were to see my tattoo, would they understand the meaning and not be puzzled by it? As in, when they see עפּשטיין, would they know that it is Epstein?



No they would not be puzzled, unless they do not know of the name Epstein (which is a very common Yiddish name). Yiddish is written phonetically, so there is no way to misinterpret it. Even if someone mistakes it for Hebrew, they would still most likely understand it.


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## rmatthew

Very cool, and I appreciate your response! Does Yiddish use Nikud like Hebrew, or is that even necessary with this?


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## Drink

rmatthew said:


> Very cool, and I appreciate your response! Does Yiddish use Nikud like Hebrew, or is that even necessary with this?



Yiddish uses a subset of nikud for specific purposes, such as the dot in the פּ. Standard Yiddish has very specific rules about nikud, and the spelling I gave you is standard.


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## rmatthew

Okay, thank you again!


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## airelibre

You don't need the dot in the פ, as the sound f is often represented by פֿ. Besides, no one will read it and think it is supposed to be pronounced Efshtein without the dot. 

Yiddish is a lot easier to read as the vowels are basically spelt out for you all the time using a few matres lectionis and a few nikkud symbols, whereas in Hebrew you need to have a load of nikkud which looks a bit messy and is time consuming, hence it is left out in most situations other than religious and children's books.


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## Drink

airelibre said:


> You don't need the dot in the פ, as the sound f is often represented by פֿ. Besides, no one will read it and think it is supposed to be pronounced Efshtein without the dot.



The YIVO standard requires the dot for "p" and the line for "f". Most pre-standard texts I've looked at use the dot, but do not use the line.


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## airelibre

Drink said:


> The YIVO standard requires the dot for "p" and the line for "f". Most pre-standard texts I've looked at use the dot, but do not use the line.


I'm sure you know more about the subject than I do. Nevertheless, I still don't think a tattoo requires the dot, but it's up to the OP.


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