# سواء



## shuaybi

Following is the text of the hadith:

العالمُِ وَ المُتعلِّمُ في الأَجرِ سواءٌ

It has been translated as "The teacher and the student are equal in recompense".

However, does the word سواءٌ always mean "equal in number"? Or can it also mean "jointly or together" not necessarily implying equal in quantity?

Would the following translation also be correct?

"The teacher and the student are both jointly rewarded"

If someone who is well versed with arabic expressions and usage, please help in explaining the different nuances/meanings of the word سواءٌ

The reason I ask is because there is another hadith which says the teacher is compensated twice as much as the student. And the above hadith apparently seems to contradict it. I am trying to resolve this contradiction.

Thanks so much!


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## Mahaodeh

In this context it means “similar, alike, same, equal”. The word does not mean “equal in quantity” per say, but it implies such equality or at least similar.


shuaybi said:


> Would the following translation also be correct?
> 
> "The teacher and the student are both jointly rewarded"


Not really, no. For together the word would be سويّا not سواء.



shuaybi said:


> The reason I ask is because there is another hadith which says the teacher is compensated twice as much as the student.


I don’t know about that, I’ve never heard such a Hadith. I have heard this one though:
من طلب علماً فأدركه كتب الله له كفلين من الأجر، ومن طلب علماً فلم يدركه كتب الله له كفلاً من الأجر

But this one doesn’t mention the teacher at all, are you sure you remember correctly?


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## Romeel

shuaybi said:


> If someone who is well versed with arabic expressions and usage, please help in explaining the different nuances/meanings of the word سواءٌ


سواء = whether
like
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا *سَواءٌ *عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لا يُؤْمِنُونَ
سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْنَا أَجَزِعْنَا أَمْ صَبَرْنَا مَا لَنَا مِنْ مَحِيصٍ

سواء = alike, equally, evenly
like
لَيْسُوا *سَوَاءً*

سواء = middle
like
وَمَنْ يَتَبَدَّلِ الْكُفْرَ بِالْإِيمَانِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ *سَوَاءَ *السَّبِيلِ


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## Ali Smith

What is the source of this hadith?


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## Sadda7

Ali Smith said:


> What is the source of this hadith?


See *414*, the sources are mentioned below and all of them are weak narrations.


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## Qureshpor

Romeel said:


> سواء = whether
> like
> إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا *سَواءٌ *عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لا يُؤْمِنُونَ


I think in this ayah أَ means "whether" and not *سواءٌ*


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## Mahaodeh

No, there is no “whether” here. The hamza is همزة استفهام. You may need the word _whether_ in English to convey the meaning but you don’t need it in Arabic.


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## Qureshpor

Mahaodeh said:


> No, there is no “whether” here. The hamza is همزة استفهام. You may need the word _whether_ in English to convey the meaning but you don’t need it in Arabic.


This is what I meant that the question marker conveys the meaning of “whether”.


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## Romeel

Qureshpor said:


> I think in this ayah أَ means "whether" and not *سواءٌ*





Mahaodeh said:


> No, there is no “whether” here. The hamza is همزة استفهام. You may need the word _whether_ in English to convey the meaning but you don’t need it in Arabic.





Qureshpor said:


> This is what I meant that the question marker conveys the meaning of “whether”.



ترجمة و معنى whether بالعربي في قاموس المعاني. قاموس عربي انجليزي الكل مصطلحات صفحة 1


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## shuaybi

The two hadith I am trying to reconcile are:

1. العالِمُ وَ المُتعلِّمُ شريكانِ في الأَجرِ لِلعالِمِ أجرَانِ و لِلمُتعلِّمِ أجرٌ وَ لا خَيْرَ في سِوَى ذَلِكَ
2. العالمُِ وَ المُتعلِّمُ في الأَجرِ سواءٌ

#1 seems to say that reward of the teacher is double that of the student.
#2 seems to say that the reward is equal

Both hadith are from the same book and chapter and the book is considered reliable by scholars.

Please help me to decide if there is a real conflict in these two hadith or is there a way to reconcile/understand them so both of them have a correct reading.

Thank you!


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## Romeel

shuaybi said:


> Please help me to decide if there is a real conflict in these two hadith


Before saying that there is a conflict, you must make sure that the hadiths are authentic. There are many things attributed to the Prophet are false!


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## shuaybi

Romeel said:


> Before saying that there is a conflict, you must make sure that the hadiths are authentic. There are many things attributed to the Prophet are false!


Yes I am pursuing that angle too. But because I am not familiar with Arabic, I want to know if the meanings are conflicting or not. If they conflict in meaning for sure then I can get into authenticity. But for me that is second step. For now I am just looking at it from point of arabic literature (not hadith).


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## Romeel

shuaybi said:


> Yes I am pursuing that angle too. But because I am not familiar with Arabic, I want to know if the meanings are conflicting or not. If they conflict in meaning for sure then I can get into authenticity. But for me that is second step. For now I am just looking at it from point of arabic literature (not hadith).


First of all, this text وَ لا خَيْرَ في سِوَى ذَلِكَ
contradicts many other solid texts. Where is the reward for the worker, the worshiper, and the wife who raises, etc..?!

Then these two texts have a clear contradiction...


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## shuaybi

Romeel said:


> First of all, this text وَ لا خَيْرَ في سِوَى ذَلِكَ
> contradicts many other solid texts. Where is the reward for the worker, the worshiper, and the wife who raises, etc..?!
> 
> Then these two texts have a clear contradiction...


Let's not get into authenticity of hadith, my question is purely from a literature perspective.

Imagine they are 2 lines of arabic literature. Let me quote them again with the portions that are relevant to the discussion:

1. العالِمُ وَ المُتعلِّمُ شريكانِ في الأَجرِ لِلعالِمِ أجرَانِ و لِلمُتعلِّمِ أجرٌ
2. العالمُِ وَ المُتعلِّمُ في الأَجرِ سواءٌ

Now is there a way to read the above two arabic statements so that they are not apparently conflicting?


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## Sadda7

shuaybi said:


> Now is there a way to read the above two arabic statements so that they are not apparently conflicting?


No


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## Romeel

shuaybi said:


> Let's not get into authenticity of hadith, my question is purely from a literature perspective.
> 
> Imagine they are 2 lines of arabic literature. Let me quote them again with the portions that are relevant to the discussion:
> 
> 1. العالِمُ وَ المُتعلِّمُ شريكانِ في الأَجرِ لِلعالِمِ أجرَانِ و لِلمُتعلِّمِ أجرٌ
> 2. العالمُِ وَ المُتعلِّمُ في الأَجرِ سواءٌ
> 
> Now is there a way to read the above two arabic statements so that they are not apparently conflicting?


No
Because the first is saying that العالِمُ  gets double what المُتعلِّمُ gets, while the second is saying they are equal in the reward!


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## Ali Smith

Why isn’t the word سواء in the dual (مثنّى)?


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> Why isn’t the word سواء in the dual (مثنّى)?


You can say متساويين في الأجر but في الأجر سواء is أفصح


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## Sadda7

Ali Smith said:


> Why isn’t the word سواء in the dual (مثنّى)?


It is one of the conditions of the dual, in معجم القواعد العربية:
"أنْ لا يُسْتَغْنى بتثْنِية غَيرِه عَنْ تَثْنِيَته فلا يُثَنّى «*سَواء*» لأنَّهُم اسْتَغْنَوا بتَثْنِيةِ «*سِيّ*» بِمَعْنى «مِثْل» عن تَثْنِيَته فَقالوا «*سِيّانِ*» ولم يَقُولوا *سَواءان*."
In همع الهوامع by السيوطي:
"السّادِس: ألا يُسْتَغْنى عَن تثنيته وجمعه بتثنية غَيره وجمعه فَلا يُثَنَّى (*بعض*) للاستغناء عَنهُ بتثنية (*جُزْء*) ولا (*سَواء*) للاستغناء عَنهُ بـ(*سِيَّان*) تَثْنِيَة (*سِي*)"


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