# the difference between 在 and 著 in terms of present progressive tense



## graysesame

the difference between 在 and 著 in terms of present progressive tense

我被問到
Why is "她說著話呢，你們別插嘴" is unnatural while "她在說話呢，你們別插嘴" is natural.
On contrast, "外面下著雨呢" and "外面在下雨呢" are both natural.
有中文語法的專家可以為我解惑嗎？謝謝。


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## philchinamusical

我没觉得“她说着话呢，你们别插嘴”有什么别扭，可能有些方言风格的句式里，这样就是很自然的表达。当然，“她在说话呢...”的确更流畅一些。


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## muqinglan

我的看法和philchinamusical一樣。
"她說著話呢，你們別插嘴"是地道的表達，和"她在說話呢，你們別插嘴"一樣的。


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## KK_Tse

We use 在 but not 着 in situations like:
1. - 妈妈呢?
    - 妈妈在做饭。(She is cooking)
2. - 我昨晚八点给你打电话，没人接听。
    - 昨晚八点？我在洗澡。(I was having a shower)

Typically, we use 着 in situations where concomitant events are involved. For example:
3. 我吃着饭，望着那片阳光下的稻田闪耀着绿色的光芒，映着母亲脸上的汗水。（章方松 - 母亲的季节）
4. 别去管那些风声雨声了吧，还不如唱着歌吹着口哨淡定前行呢。（杨雨 - 杨雨讲诗词故事.智慧卷）

It is like saying "while doing X, we do Y on the other hand" in English.

This said, 着 is used in the following cases where no concomitant events are involved:
5. 你为什么把门开着？(Why do you leave the door open?)
6. 小心，她手里拿着菜刀！(Be careful. She is holding a knife!)
7. 看着孩子，不要让他乱跑。(Keep an eye on the kid. Don't let him fool around.)

In these cases, the use of 着 implies something like "don't let go": "open the door and don't let it close back", "take a knife and don't let it go (by holding it)", "watch the kid and don't let him go away".

If the context allows the process (action or event) to interpret in this manner, 着 can be used with most of the verbs:
8. 先把房子买着，不合适再卖掉嘛。(Buy and keep it until you can sell it later)
9. 你们先吃着饭，我出去拿个快递。(Keep eating and do not stop until I come back)

Finally, 在 and 着 in the above cases function as *aspect* markers. They have nothing to do with tenses. While TENSE is a grammaticalized category in many Indo-European languages, many other world languages (such as Chinese, Malay, Japanese) do not have grammatical tenses like past, present and future. In these languages, lexical items are used to indicate past, present or future (e.g. 我昨晚八点正在洗澡; 他明天吃了早饭就去北京).


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## graysesame

@KK_Tse
Thank you for your explanation.
I'd like to ask further questions to make sure I understand.

1. - 妈妈呢?
- 妈妈在做饭。
2. - 我昨晚八点给你打电话，没人接听。
- 昨晚八点？我在洗澡。
While some 在 and 着 seem to be interchangeable (外面在下雨呢 and 外面下著雨呢, etc), how do you explain the inability to replace 在 with 着? (can be attributed to the "don't let go" connotation of 着?)


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## KK_Tse

graysesame said:


> @KK_Tse
> Thank you for your explanation.
> I'd like to ask further questions to make sure I understand.
> 
> 1. - 妈妈呢?
> - 妈妈在做饭。
> 2. - 我昨晚八点给你打电话，没人接听。
> - 昨晚八点？我在洗澡。
> While some 在 and 着 seem to be interchangeable (外面在下雨呢 and 外面下著雨呢, etc), how do you explain the inability to replace 在 with 着? (can be attributed to the "don't let go" connotation of 着?)


In “她说着话呢，你们别插嘴", 着 invokes the idea of "while, as":  "While/As she is speaking, you should not interrupt".
Likewise, if I say "外面下着雨呢", I am probably thinking of "还是留在家里吧” (While/As it is raining outside, I'd better stay at home.)

There is a kind of mutual reference between the concomitant events: "While X, do/or don't do Y", "Do/or don't do Y as long as X".

There is an expression in Mandarin that I like very much: 你看着办, which can roughly rendered in English by "You do/act accordingly". 看什么？According to what? Nothing particular, but as long as you are doing, you have to look out for whatever that may arise.


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## philchinamusical

又想了一下，觉得可能“说着话呢”和“在说话呢”，两者的表达效果不一样：

“说着话呢”：强调的是“说”这个动作，而且语气比较重：你们没看到她正在说话么？
“在说话呢”：强调的是“说话”这个现象，并且没有什么特别语气，也没有态度，只是在陈述事实。
同样的，“吃着饭呢”“下着雨呢”“看着书呢”“聊着天呢”...都是强调动作，并带语气的。

“你看着办”也是，这句话其实应该对应的是英语里的“It's you call now”，这里“着”强调的是前面的“看”，而且语气是比较重的，暗示这个决定由你负责了；对等的语气不太重的说法是“你来决定”，相对比较缓和一些，不太强调什么。


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## graysesame

謝謝各位的回答


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## graysesame

「我洗著澡，你先別進來浴室(bathroom)。」
自然嗎？
c.f.
「我在洗澡，你先別進來浴室(bathroom)。」


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## retrogradedwithwind

可能gray 你的方言区中或生活环境中不常用“洗着澡”这类结构，所以觉得不自然。但我在看来，“洗着澡”“在洗澡”同等自然。


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## 2PieRad

Hmmm. Kind of a noodle scratcher. Going off of #4, I would say that [verb]着 is more of a "present state", rather than an a continuous action like 在[verb].

我读故事，你听着. You "remain in the state of listening."
我在听故事. I'm listening to a story. 
路上停着一辆车。 A car is in "the state of being parked."
穿着裙子的那个人是我的朋友. The person who is "in the state of wearing a skirt."
我在穿衣服。 你先别进来。 I'm currently getting dressed. (action)

So:
外面下着雨 sort of feels like "the current state of things outside is that rain is falling".
外面在下雨 feels more like rain is currently falling and continuing to fall. 

So going back to your original question...
他说着话呢，你别插嘴/我洗着澡，你先别进来。
他在说话呢，你别插嘴/我在洗澡，你先别进来。
I think it's actually the second part of the sentence （你别插嘴/你先别进来）combined with the first 着 part that makes the whole thing a little bit awkward. As #4 mentioned, [verb]着 is often part of a _do X while doing Y _structure.

Perhaps it's because you're asking people not to _interrupt _you while you're doing [说/洗], it would make more sense to _interrupt_ a continuous action [在说话/在洗澡] rather than a state [说着话/洗着澡]. I think it's why 我在穿衣服呢，你别进来 works. I'm getting dressed. Don't come in because you'll interrupt me getting dressed (continuous action). But 我穿着衣服呢，你别进来 would mean something else. I'm dressed/I have clothes on, don't come in.  You're not interrupting me getting dressed, but rather (for some reason), I don't want you to see me with clothes on (state).  
Is that an analogous example?


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## retrogradedwithwind

穿着衣服有两个不同的意思
1，他穿着衣服呢，没光着身子。→身上有衣服的状态。
2，他穿着衣服呢，不能出来。→正在进行穿衣服的动作。

或许是因为穿这个词比较特别吧。


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## tinsh

retrogradedwithwind said:


> 穿着衣服有两个不同的意思
> 1，他穿着衣服呢，没光着身子。→身上有衣服的状态。
> 2，他穿着衣服呢，不能出来。→正在进行穿衣服的动作。
> 
> 或许是因为穿这个词比较特别吧。


Usage 2 is so weird. Generally, we would say “他（正在）穿衣服呢，出不来。”


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## 2PieRad

Hmmm I don’t deny that in the right context, 【他穿着衣服呢】could mean “he’s getting dressed,” but without any context, wouldn’t you instinctively interpret that as “he has clothes on/he’s not naked”?


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## retrogradedwithwind

至少在读到“我穿着衣服呢，你别进来”时，我第一反应是“我正在穿衣服”。


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## 2PieRad

Right, but that's because that's the most logical interpretation given the context 【你别进来】。 It would be highly unlikely that anyone would mean "he has clothes on/he's not naked, don't come in." 

Suffice to say 【他（正）在穿衣服】 (as far as I can tell), can never be interpreted as "he has clothes on/he's not naked" (state).


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## SimonTsai

Erebos12345 said:


> wouldn’t you instinctively interpret that as “he has clothes on/he’s not naked”?


I would interpret that so intuitively.


> I would say that [verb] 着 is more of a "present state", rather than an a continuous action like 在 [verb].


That makes sense. It seems that non-native speakers sometimes do the systemisation work better than natives.


retrogradedwithwind said:


> 你的方言区中或生活环境中不常用 “洗着澡” 这类结构，所以觉得不自然。但在我看来，“洗着澡” “在洗澡” 同等自然。


'我洗著澡，你別進來' doesn't sound horribly wrong, but '我在洗澡，你別進來' is what I am more familiar with. (The same applies to '我說著話呢'.)


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