# Urdu/Punjabi : raTTaa



## Cilquiestsuens

Greetings,

I guess you know the word *raTTaa lagaanaa / maarnaa* (to memorize / to learn by heart) in (present day) Urdu.

My question is : where does it come from? Is this a proper Urdu or is it an English loan in Urdu : from rote? Any idea?

P.S. > there is of course the Urdu expression *kisii chiiz kii raT lagaana* which seems to be related to raTTaa


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I guess you know the word *raTTaa lagaanaa / maarnaa* (to memorize / to learn by heart) in (present day) Urdu.
> 
> My question is : where does it come from? Is this a proper Urdu or is it an English loan in Urdu : from rote? Any idea?


 
Greetings Cilqu!

Both رٹنا *raTnaa* and & رٹ *raT* come from Sanskrit so ultimately رٹا *raTTaa* would go back to these I imagine, but not sure when / where رٹا came about! 

I don't think it is from English though.



Cilquiestsuens said:


> P.S. > there is of course the Urdu expression *kisii chiiz kii raT lagaana* which seems to be related to raTTaa


Yes it is! There is also the term *raTTuu ToTaa* رَٹُّو طوطا! 
Someone who repeats like a parrot! Used for those who learn without understanding!


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## Birdcall

Fayla, is totaa really spelled with that Arabic ta? (not sure what it's called)
I thought it was an Indic/Persian word.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Birdcall said:


> Fayla, is totaa really spelled with that Arabic ta? (not sure what it's called)
> I thought it was an Indic/Persian word.


 
You are right, call it style or not, it is the way we spell it in Urdu. We had a discussion already about it : here.


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## drkpp

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I guess you know the word *raTTaa lagaanaa / maarnaa* (to memorize / to learn by heart) in (present day) Urdu.
> 
> My question is : where does it come from? Is this a proper Urdu or is it an English loan in Urdu : from rote? Any idea?
> 
> P.S. > there is of course the Urdu expression *kisii chiiz kii raT lagaana* which seems to be related to raTTaa


In Sanskrit, root verb is रट्‌ 1st conjugation parasmaipada meaning is to shout, call out or proclaim loudly. 
The noun derived from it is ra-Ta-na [रटन]


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## akak

drkpp said:


> In Sanskrit, root verb is रट्‌ 1st conjugation parasmaipada meaning is to shout, call out or proclaim loudly.
> The noun derived from it is ra-Ta-na [रटन]


 
Thanks!


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## Cilquiestsuens

drkpp said:


> In Sanskrit, root verb is रट्‌ 1st conjugation parasmaipada meaning is to shout, call out or proclaim loudly.
> The noun derived from it is ra-Ta-na [रटन]


 
Thanks, drkpp. It's good to have someone knowing sanskrit expert on board.

Do you use the above expresssions I have mentioned in Hindi too?


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## drkpp

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Thanks, drkpp. It's good to have someone knowing sanskrit expert on board.
> 
> Do you use the above expresssions I have mentioned in Hindi too?


The noun is used in Sanskrit to mean calling out loudly or speaking out loudly.
It is not used as it is in Hindi but RaTTA is a derived from it.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Just one last remark.

The only place I have found this word having the meaning memorizing (a lesson, by repeating it again and again) is a Punjabi dictionary.

Another Punjabi loan in present day Urdu...


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Just one last remark.
> 
> The only place I have found this word having the meaning memorizing (a  lesson, by repeating it again and again) is a Punjabi dictionary.
> 
> Another Punjabi loan in present day Urdu...



True enough you won't find _*raTTAA*_ in Urdu lexicons, nor _*raTTuu*_. Both are used widely and as I said earlier, are ultimately derived from Sanskrit:



Faylasoof said:


> ....
> Both رٹنا *raTnaa* and & رٹ *raT* come from Sanskrit so ultimately رٹا *raTTaa* would go back to these I imagine, but not sure when / where رٹا came about!
> ....There is also the term *raTTuu ToTaa* رَٹُّو طوطا!
> Someone who repeats like a parrot! Used for those who learn without understanding!



We of course use *raTnaa* both as a verb and a verbal noun. 

... and Birdcall, as for this:
 


Birdcall said:


> Fayla, is totaa really spelled with that Arabic  ta? (not sure what it's called)
> I thought it was an Indic/Persian word.



We call it _To_! For طوطا , we have a thread here!


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## panjabigator

تو کیا یہ جملہ ٹھیک ھے:


> میں نےمشق کرنے سے تقریر کو رٹ ؛لگایا؟



میرے خیال سے یہان پر اگر میں نے "مارنا" فعل کا استمعال کیا تو یہ نفیس اردو بولنے والوں کو برا لگے گا۔

کوزھگر صاحب، یا کوئ اور بھی، آپ ھمیں مطلاح کر سکتے ھیں کہ پنجابی میں "رٹ لگانا/مارنا " کیسے کہتے ھیں؟


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## Faylasoof

Well, normally we’d simply say these:

 میں نے تقریر رٹی​ میں نے تقریر رٹ لی​ میں نے تقریر كو رٹ لیا​ میں نے تقریر كو رٹا​ میں نے تقریر كا رٹا مارا \ لگایا​ 
To put it in something like the way you said it earlier, one can just add the words in blue: 

 میں نے مشق کركے تقریر  رٹی​ میں نے مشق کركے تقریر رٹ لی​ میں نے مشق کركے تقریر کو رٹ لیا​ میں نے مشق کركے تقریر کو رٹا​ میں نے مشق کركے تقریر کا رٹا مارا \ لگایا​ 
 But as I say above, we don’t’ say it like this, instead using the ones at the top.


_BTW, the shaddah on __ٹ is seen only in the last line of both.


_


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## panjabigator

اچھا، اب سمجھ میں آ رھا ھے۔ بڑی نوازش


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## Faylasoof

! خواهش میکنم


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## eskandar

In an English article on rote learning in South Asia I came across the romanized word _ratta_ for this practice. I was unable to find it in Platts. How would it be spelled in the Perso-Arabic or Devanagari scripts? Thanks!


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## Alfaaz

رٹا

Relevant thread: Urdu/Punjabi : raTTaa

Relevant entries in Feroz-ul-Lughaat: here. 

Relevant entries in Urdu Lughat and Platts: رٹنا and _raTnaa_.


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## tarkshya

drkpp said:


> In Sanskrit, root verb is रट्‌ 1st conjugation parasmaipada meaning is to shout, call out or proclaim loudly.
> The noun derived from it is ra-Ta-na [रटन]



I am no Sanskrit expert, but we may need a second opinion on this assertion.

The reason is, I found following etymology excerpt

Online Etymology Dictionary

So looks like Sanskrit raT has a meaning of "to turn or to roll" - in essence, to repeat. Since rote learning is basically learning through constant repetition, this etymology can also serve as an explanation. 

Again, Sanskrit scholars are invited to opine.


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