# Fall/ fell/ drop



## ThomasK

I am just wondering whether you can use the same root in those three English verbs: 

*fall, fell* (a tree, causative: _make fall_ (?)), *drop* 

Dutch vallen, vellen ['doen vallen], laten vallen 
German fallen, fällen, fallen lassen


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## enoo

In French, not the same roots, but some verbs can match several definitions:

1) To fall: *tomber*, sometimes *chuter*
2) To fell (a tree): *abattre* (it can also mean to kill a person), *faire tomber*
3) To drop (something, transitive verb): *faire/laisser tomber* (something), *lâcher* (something)
4) To drop (intransitive) : *baisser*, *chuter*, sometimes *tomber

*(_drop_ can mean quite a number of different things, so it's hard to give just one verb )


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## jazyk

Portuguese:

fall - cair, tombar
fell - abater, cortar
drop (trans.) - derrubar, deixar cair 
drop (intr.) - cair, baixar, descer


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## Awwal12

In *Russian*:
to fall - _п*а*дать_ /p*a*dat'/
to fell (a tree) - _вал*и*ть_ /val*i*t'/ ("to make fall"), also _руб*и*ть_ /rub*i*t'/ (using an axe; rather "to cut")
to drop ("to let fall", but "throw" as well) - _брос*а*ть_ /bros*a*t'/.
All the roots are different.


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## Nizo

*Esperanto*

_*fal*i_ = to fall
_de*fal*igi_ = to fell (a tree, e.g.)
_lasi *fal*i_ = to drop


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## ThomasK

*French*: But intransive 'drop' ? Can you give an example? 

I know that words may have different meanings, but the main focus for me now is/ was: do they have the same root... 

*Portuguese*: the *c.r* seems to turn up relatively often (cadere in Lat. ?). 

*Esperanto*: just like Dutch, so it seems to me. 

*Russian*: quite different ??? Amazing to me, but interesting. Very peculiar: dropping and throwing seem quite different. How can you distinguish if there is no extensive context? 

The most remarkable from my point of view is, that as a Dutch speaker I tend to consider those verbs (and meanings) linked, based on the words we use, whereas there seems to be *no such 'common semantic ground'...* Another illusion gone or done away with ! ;-)


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## enoo

ThomasK said:


> *French*: But intransive 'drop' ? Can you give an example?



E.g. The prices dropped : Les prix ont chuté/ont baissé.
The WR dictonary also have that example: The cliff drops into the sea: La falaise tombe dans la mer.


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## ThomasK

Amazing: we only have 'vallen' in Dutch. 

But there is a difference in the sense that, so I think, that the chûter/ baisser is the fig. meaning, or does not go that deep. (*Les prix tombaient ?), whereas cliffs can also fall,I think, no dfference in meaning, I think... By the way: if the prices decrease, they can't 'vallen' in Dutch.


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*:

1) to fall: _kaatua_
2) to fell: _kaataa_
3) to drop (transitive): _pudottaa_
4) to drop (intransitive): _pudota_

The difference is small, but significant.


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## ThomasK

I suppose you are expressing some causative aspect in 2 and 4. But how could you make the difference clear between 3 and 4, just using some examples ? (Thanks)


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## sakvaka

Example:

3) _Pudotin kännykkäni lattialle._ I dropped my cellphone on the floor.
4) _Kännykkäni putosi lattialle._ My cellphone dropped on the floor.


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## ThomasK

But how about : Oma matkapuhelin-laski (it is simply based on nicetranslator.com). Now we seem to have three different verbs or falling. 

And what about the 'oma' ? With us she would be 'grandma'... ;-)


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> But how about : Oma matkapuhelin-laski (it is simply based on nicetranslator.com). Now we seem to have three different verbs or falling.
> 
> And what about the 'oma' ? With us she would be 'grandma'... ;-)



No, that translation is completely wrong!  

_Laskea_ has 16 different meanings and one of them really is _drop_, but it could be used only if you lowered your telephone gently on the floor. _Oma_ means "own", so as you can see, the whole suggestion is a mess:

_Own cellphone-lowered

_EDIT: When stock prices drop, they _laskevat _or _putoavat_. The both verbs can be used here.


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## rusita preciosa

ThomasK said:


> *Russian*: quite different ??? Amazing to me, but interesting. Very peculiar: dropping and throwing seem quite different. How can you distinguish if there is no extensive context?


Two completely different verbs.
to drop: *уронить / ронять *[uronit' / ronyat']
to throw: *бросить / бросать* [brosit' / brosat']
(the first in the pair is perfective aspect, the second - imperfective of the same verb)


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> *Russian*: quite different ??? Amazing to me, but interesting. Very peculiar: dropping and throwing seem quite different. How can you distinguish if there is no extensive context?


1. For exactly throwing, there are two another verbs: "кидать" /kid*a*t'/ and "метать" /met*a*t'/. The first one is more general and may be slightly informal, when the second is more formal and presuposes some serious throwing - "_мет*а*ние_ [verbal noun] копь*я*" (javelin _throwing_), "_мет*а*ние_ гран*а*ты" (grenade _throwing_, as military exercise), огне_м*ё*т_ (flame_thrower_), _мет*а*тельное_ [verbal adjective] ор*у*жие (missile weapons, historical; more literally "_throwing_ weapons" - i.e. bows, catapults...) etc.

P.S.: Totally forgot about the third verb, "швыр*я*ть" /shvyr'*a*t'/, - i.e. to throw something forcefully and kind of without any respect (~~"to hurl").

2. Well, there is also a verb "отпуск*а*ть" (/otpusk*a*t'/, "to release").

I wouldn't say that there is a big difference between throwing and dropping after all. In both cases the object moves freely, under influence of gravity and air resistance; the difference is only in the initial velocity.


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## ThomasK

sakvaka said:


> No, that translation is completely wrong!
> 
> _Own cellphone-lowered_
> 
> EDIT: When stock prices drop, they _laskevat _or _putoavat_. The both verbs can be used here.


 
It is incredible: those machines ! But I am still wondering whether any of the _fall_ verbs are interchangeable... Laski and putota seem interchangeable, also no. 2 ?


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## ThomasK

It seems interesting though to read that throwing and falling are linked, or can be linked. In Dutch there would be quite a difference between throwing (*down*) and dropping a gun  (_Gooi je geweer *nee*_*r* vs. _Laat je geweer vallen_). You could indeed say that everything depends on the initial moment/ velocity or the intention (throwing or letting go).


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## Awwal12

rusita preciosa said:


> Two completely different verbs.
> to drop: *уронить / ронять *[uronit' / ronyat']
> to throw: *бросить / бросать* [brosit' / brosat']
> (the first in the pair is perfective aspect, the second - imperfective of the same verb)


Well, I strongly disagree.

At first, "ронять" is quite specific verb; it is used usually when somebody dropped something _accidentally._ Thanks, however, I totally forgot about it. 

Then, the verb "to drop" has many meanings, definetly including "бросать" and paronymous "сбрасывать".
бросить письмо в (почтовый) ящик - to drop (not "to throw"!! ) a letter into the postbox
бросать якорь - to drop the anchor
сбрасывать (не "кидать" и, упаси Боже, не "ронять") бомбу или груз с самолета - to drop a bomb / a cargo from an aircraft
etc.

P.S.: Don't you consider a phrase "урони что-л." (imperative) as extremely unnatural?


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## ThomasK

It is just amazing why we throw and why you drop... ;-)

They are not exchangeable, all those verbs, are they? I am thinking of this : 'storten' ('stürzen' in German) is some form of falling too in Dutch, but with a lot of force. I did not include it, hoping to stick to the basics: dropping a vase, etc.


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## Awwal12

> They are not exchangeable, all those verbs, are they?


No, they surely aren't. The *throwing* and the *dropping* intersect only in the verb "бросать". The other verbs contain either idea of throwing ("кидать", "швырять", "метать") or idea of dropping only ("ронять", "сбрасывать" - but the both are quite specific, I must admit).


> I did not include it, hoping to stick to the basics: dropping a vase, etc.


To drop a vase (accidentally) on the floor - уронить вазу на пол.
But:
to drop/to throw a bag on the sofa (on purpose) - бросить сумочку на диван
He has dropped the sack there - Он бросил мешок здесь.


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## ThomasK

I think I am beginning to see the light... Thanks.


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> It is incredible: those machines ! But I am still wondering whether any of the _fall_ verbs are interchangeable... Laski and putota seem interchangeable, also no. 2 ?



_Laskea _is interchangeable with _pudota_/_pudottaa_ only when we're talking about temperature or a price. Besides, it has both transitive and intransitive meaning.

_Huoneen lämpötila laski asteella._ The room's temperature dropped a degree.
_Huonen lämpötila putosi asteella.  

__Laskin huoneen lämpötilaa asteella. _I dropped the room's temperature a degree.
_Pudotin huoneen lämpötilaa asteella. _
_ 
Hinnat laskivat jyrkästi viime vuonna. _The prices dropped (sank) sharply last year.
_Hinnat putosivat jyrkästi viime vuonna._

_Laskimme hintoja jyrkästi viime vuonna. _We dropped (lowered) prices sharply last year.
_Pudotimme hintoja jyrkästi viime vuonna. 
_ 
The conjugations of these verbs are:

_pudota _(74-F)
_pudottaa _(53-C)
_laskea _(58)
_kaataa _(57-F)_
kaatua _(52-F)

Those conjugation and consonant gradation types can be found from the website of Kotus (Research Institute for the Languages of Finland).
http://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/nykysuom...utustyypit.php
http://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/nykysuom...telutyypit.php


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## ThomasK

sakvaka said:


> _Laskea _is interchangeable with _pudota_/_pudottaa_ only when we're talking about temperature or a price.
> _Laskin huoneen lämpötilaa asteella. _I dropped the room's temperature a degree.
> _Laskimme hintoja jyrkästi viime vuonna. _We dropped (lowered) prices sharply last year.


Great, but the interesting thing is that the transitive use of _drop_ here seems incorrect to me, in this context at least - but I am not a native speaker of English of course. 

It remains interestingly funny that speakers of other languages see things 'fall' whereas we'd never think of that... ;-)


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## rusita preciosa

Awwal12 said:


> At first, "ронять" is quite specific verb; it is used usually when somebody dropped something _accidentally._ I agree, *drop *has more meanings.
> 
> P.S.: Don't you consider a phrase "урони что-л." (imperative) as extremely unnatural? No, I don't. It is somewhat unusual, but depending on the context, quite possible.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
(a)*to fall*: «Πέφτω» ('pefto); from the ancient verb «πίπτω» ('piptō)-->_to fall down_ (with the help of gravity) which in Byzantine Greek became «πίφτω» ('piphto), ultimately «πέφτω» ('pefto) after the influence of the aorist stem _«-πεσ-»_. The verb «πέφτω» ('pefto) can also be used in order to express involuntary drop, e.g "the glass *dropped from me*"-->«*μου έπεσε*[aorist] το ποτήρι» (mu 'epese to po'tiri). 
(b)*to fell* (a tree): «Υλοτομώ» (iloto'mo); from the ancient verb «ὑλοτομέω/ὑλοτομῶ» (huloto'meō [uncontracted]/huloto'mō [contracted])-->_to cut_ or _fell wood_. 
(c)*to drop*: «Ρίχνω» ('rixno); from the ancient verb «ῥίπτω» ('rhiptō)-->_to throw down, cast, hurl, throw off_, which in Byzantine Greek became «ῥίφτω» ('rhiphto), «ῥίφνω» ('rhiphno) ultimately «ρίχνω» ('rixno). 


			
				enoo said:
			
		

> (drop can mean quite a number of different things, so it's hard to give just one verb )


ditto

PS: How did I miss this thread?


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## Encolpius

*Hungarian*: 

fall = esik
fell = dönt
drop = ejt [< from esik]


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## bibax

Czech:

1) to fall - for the free fall we use two different verbs (imperfective/perfective):
*padati/(s)padnouti* - to fall in gases
*klesati/klesnouti* - to fall in liquors

both verbs can be used figuratively (e.g. for prices, temperature, ...); padati for rather quick change, klesati for rather slow change, but it depends on adverbs as well;

2) to fell (trees): *káceti/pokáceti*
to fell (trees, also to slaughter livestock): *porážeti/poraziti*

3) to drop: *pouštěti/(u)pustiti*

(*roniti/uroniti slzy* means exclusively _to shed tears_; cf. Russian ронять/уронить)


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## merquiades

In Spanish:
fall = caer
fall down = caerse
fell (I prefer "cut down" in English by far)= talar, cortar
drop something = dejar caer
drop (temperature, etc.) = bajar


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## ThomasK

enoo said:


> In French, not the same roots, but some verbs can match several definitions:
> 
> 
> 3) To drop (something, transitive verb): *faire/laisser tomber* (something), *lâcher* (something)
> 4) To drop (intransitive) : *baisser*, *chuter*, sometimes *tomber*
> 
> (_drop_ can mean quite a number of different things, so it's hard to give just one verb )


 
I wonder, Enoo, about some things now (some months later): 
- *lâcher* : usn't that to let go, though not willing to (for example: j'ai ... la vase chinoise), whereas dropping is fairly undeliberate (not making fall/ faire tomber) ? Mind you, just wondering... 
- could you give me a subject of *baisser, chuter,* and tell me where in those cases you can't use _*tomber*_ ? I suppose you are referring to temperatures. What other things? 
(Thanks)


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## ThomasK

I am so surprised that there are so few 'lexical' links between 1, 2, 3, 4 in Czech. 

As for the dropping: are there that many meanings ? I know of temperatures dropping, but what else ? (Sorry, can't imagine right now)


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