# Pronunciation: words beginning with "dr..." [drink, drama, etc.]



## BasedowLives

I'm all about starting threads here today apparently.

So, how do you pronounce it?

It was said to me in another thread that Jrama was an incorrect pronunciation.  but I thought of all the dr words i know, and I pronounce them all in that manner.

drama = jrama
dreadful = jreadful
dream = jream
drake = jrake
drip = jrip


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## panjandrum

I noticed your jrama.
I definitely have a D before the r in all of those words - I can't remember what they are called, but the "d" gets the same kind of intensity as d in dog.


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## angeluomo

I agree with Panjandrum here: I always have a solid "d" in front of all those words, and I am a representative of AE pronunciation.


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## PSIONMAN

I think it also has to do with the pronounciation of the 'r'

I am Welsh and have no problem rolling my 'r's, but I don't do it in these words and I think my 'dr' sounds more like 'jr'

some people end up saying somethink like 'dwink' for 'drink' when they think too much about the 'd'


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## bartonig

BasedowLives said:
			
		

> I'm all about starting threads here today apparantly.
> 
> So, how do you pronounce it?
> 
> It was said to me in another thread that Jrama was an incorrect pronunciation. but i thought of all the dr words i know, and i pronounce them all in that manner.
> 
> drama = jrama
> dreadful = jreadful
> dream = jream
> drake = jrake
> drip = jrip



I think this is quite a commonly used pronunciation of _dr _at the beginning of a syllable (in Britain). Another example is leading _tr _- as in _tree _which is often pronounced _chree_.


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## Brioche

j = d + zh  (zh is the sound of s in vi*s*ion)
and
ch = t + sh

Why would drama become d+zh+rama?

Are you sure that's the right sound?

Changing tree into chree sounds a little like the Irish 'narrow' pronuciation of t.


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## Kelly B

I have definitely heard the jrama pronunciation around here, but I do not say it that way.


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## bartonig

_ Why would drama become d+zh+rama? _t doesn't. It's pronounced starting with a _j _and finishing with _rama_. I think it has to do with the tongue. The front of the tongue makes contact with the hard palate rather than the blade with the alveolar ridge. This also seems to be the explanation for the _t_ to _ch_ change.


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## Savoir

<< This thread has been added to a previous thread.  Please read from the top.
Moderator. >>

I just watched "Cats" 's vcd this evening, and I noticed the pronuciation of "drink" as in the song of "Bustopher Jones", and it's like the RP pronunciation in Oxford dictionary."d" followed by "r". However, in real life, we all pronounce something like "j", not "d" followed by "r". 

May I ask the native English speakers (not just UK speakers), no matter where you are,  how you pronounce the "dr" sound as in "drink", "drama" etc.  The more opinions and speakers the better.

I'm just wondering, has the real life pronuciation changed, and becomes something more like "j", but the dictionary's phonetic symbols hasn't been revised? If I teach my students phonetics, how should I explain this, esp the "dr" sound?

Thanks.


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## tinlizzy

As a native speaker I would say dr-ink. I can only think of one example where the dr would sound like a j- "Did ya drink ...." The sloppy ya instead of you would twist the dr into a j if I were talking fast or maybe singing a song.


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## The Scrivener

I would never pronounce "drink" as "jink".  My children did when they were beginning to talk.

Any words beginning with "dr" are pronounced correctly - drawer, driver, dress, dream, drivel, draught, dreadful, etc.


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## sound shift

I agree with post #3 [= post 11 in the merged thread]

[Note added by Nat]


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## Dempsey

I think I pronounce it like "jrink". It is easier to say than "drink".
Apparently it depends on your accent.


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## ernest_

Savoir said:


> However, in real life, we all pronounce something like "j", not "d" followed by "r".



It's probably the aspiration after the /d/ followed by /r/ that sounds a bit like "j", but it's not quite the same. Try saying "try" with and without aspiration and you'll see what I'm talking about.


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## panjandrum

I'm another dr- person, but I see that there are lots of jrink references around.
There's even a bar in London called Jrink. 





> Jrink is a stylishly seductive bar that serves a plethora of excellent drinks including an impressive cocktail menu. Jrink's appeal really comes to the fore with its regular music nights - where quality acts of all genres entertain a vibrant and friendly crowd.


Clearly this pronunciation is neither a personal idiosyncracy nor HK-specific.


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## The Scrivener

For those old enough to remember, think of "The Drinking Song" from "The Student Prince."  "Drink, drink, drink" is perfectly enunciated.


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## Savoir

Thanks very much for your responses. 

The Scrivener: What I mean is something like "jrink", not "jink". I've checked the pronuciation in at&t lab's page, and all US and UK pronunciations provided there are like "jrink". I do hear "dr" pronunciations on tv, but all of them are UK pronunciations. 

So, to everybody, do you think this is more a UK variant/standard pronunciation? 

How about "drama" ? do you pronounce the "dr" sound as in "drink"?


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## PeachB

Hello, just joined this one. 
I am a 'dr' person, pronouncing all 'dr' words the same, including 'drama'. It may well be cultural or regional, but amongst my friends, associates etc, we all use the 'dr' sound.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

I say "drink", not "jrink", and I cannot say that I have ever heard anyone I know who is a native speaker pronounce it any other way.


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## clairanne

Hi

Sorry but on actually listening to myself I tend towards jrink - although until I listened I would have sworn I said "D"rink also - jrama, jrawer etc.


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## MeganLovesChocolate

With Americans a lot of sounds tend to blend together and pronunciations vary, like with 'pillow' and 'milk' (some people pronounce them 'pellow' and 'melk'). I know a lot of people say, or sound like they say, jrink. However, this might just be because "der-ink" blends when we talk and sounds like the 'j' sound.


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## bellerophon

When teaching my ESL class, I always pronounce "DRink", but when out with friends my laziness tends to "jrag" the "jrink" "outta" my mouth...alongside the "jragon"!

Try making the two sounds alongside one another, and you might find the "jr" a bit easier to voice than the "dr".

Cheers


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## Savoir

Thanks, everybody, for your responses.   In fact, I haven't noticed the variants of this sound until recently, after all these years. Very often, when I heard a distinct dr or tr sound, i.e., t followed by r, very often, it is pronounced by a European non-native English speaker, plus a very pronounced r sound.


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## ryandward

I definitely say things this way... dr->jr for every case it occurs
Jrink, jragon, jrive, jrama, jround... 

Also, I say... tr->chr for every case it occurs
Chraffic, chrend, chry, chrea'men' (treatment)...
Some Brits even say this when a vowel is elided. For example in "literally", the Brits tend to say "litrally", and I often hear ['lich-ral-ly].


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## grubble

I'm another jrinker.


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## Adge

ryandward said:


> I definitely say things this way... dr->jr for every case it occurs
> Jrink, jragon, jrive, jrama, jround...
> 
> Also, I say... tr->chr for every case it occurs
> Chraffic, chrend, chry, chrea'men' (treatment)...
> Some Brits even say this when a vowel is elided. For example in "literally", the Brits tend to say "litrally", and I often hear ['lich-ral-ly].



I agree 99.9% (my _treatment_ sounds more chreetmen' ). I think a lot of the time as native speakers we don't notice that we do it, since we "know" that's the sound "dr" makes, but it definitely falls more on the "j" end of the scale for me.

*When I try to pronounce an obviously "d" sound in any of those words I feel ridiculously foolish, and half the time I actually have to stick a bit of a schwa in betweeen "d" and "r" to get a "d" at all.


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## Tristano

I am definitely a "jrink" person too. I also palatalize my /s/ in front of /tr/ --- and I am wondering of the other "jrinkers" on here also say "shtreet" and "shtrike"... ?
Since they are both examples of palatalization, there may be a connection.






Adge said:


> I agree 99.9% (my _treatment_ sounds more chreetmen' ). I think a lot of the time as native speakers we don't notice that we do it, since we "know" that's the sound "dr" makes, but it definitely falls more on the "j" end of the scale for me.
> 
> *When I try to pronounce an obviously "d" sound in any of those words I feel ridiculously foolish, and half the time I actually have to stick a bit of a schwa in betweeen "d" and "r" to get a "d" at all.


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## sandpiperlily

This is obviously quite belated, but a lot of people earlier in the thread observed that while many of us _say_ "jrink," a lot of _songs_ sound more like d-r-ink (with something like a flipped R?).

As as a singer, I'd suggest that this could be partly because there are different "pronunciation rules" for more traditional forms of song, such as classical choral music or musical theatre. In these genres, singers are taught a somewhat exaggerated and standardized pronunciation of English that allows people with different accents to perfectly align their vowels and consonants if they are singing together, or to make themselves more clearly understood when they are singing lyrics solo.  Although I say "jrink" with a fairly flat "ih" vowel, if I were singing in a choir, I would probably pronounce it with a clear D, flipped R, and more "rounded" "ih" vowel.


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## -mack-

I'm going to use IPA because it's unambiguous. In my pronunciation:

Drink = dʒrɪŋk (dʒ being the sound in *j*ump). Every time I say it. 
Street = ʃtrit (ʃ being the sound in *sh*ut)
Traffic = 'tʃræfɪk (tʃ being the sound in *ch*ip).

I consider myself to have a pretty general American accent; perhaps my dʒr realization of dr is "sloppy," but no one has ever told me it was weird.


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## Tristano

My pronunciation matches yours for all three.




-mack- said:


> I'm going to use IPA because it's unambiguous. In my pronunciation:
> 
> Drink = dʒrɪŋk (dʒ being the sound in *j*ump). Every time I say it.
> Street = ʃtrit (ʃ being the sound in *sh*ut)
> Traffic = 'tʃræfɪk (tʃ being the sound in *ch*ip).
> 
> I consider myself to have a pretty general American accent; perhaps my dʒr realization of dr is "sloppy," but no one has ever told me it was weird.


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## duvija

I agree with #13. 
Listen to yourselves saying 'try/dry'. Maybe now you'll hear the palatalization.


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## MarcB

-mack- said:


> I'm going to use IPA because it's unambiguous. In my pronunciation:
> 
> Drink = dʒrɪŋk (dʒ being the sound in *j*ump). Every time I say it.
> Street = ʃtrit (ʃ being the sound in *sh*ut)
> Traffic = 'tʃræfɪk (tʃ being the sound in *ch*ip).
> 
> I consider myself to have a pretty general American accent; perhaps my dʒr realization of dr is "sloppy," but no one has ever told me it was weird.


I have the same pronunciation. I used to teach foreign languages to English speakers and few of them realised that they had this pronunciation so I recorded them so they could see the difference with the other languages. I suspect many people here have the same situation. The people I have heard pronounce a true dr are usually not natives or their variety pronounces r differently from the majority of rhotic Americans. Edit I do not say sh for street I sat s.


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## sandpiperlily

-mack- said:


> Drink = dʒrɪŋk (dʒ being the sound in *j*ump). Every time I say it.
> Street = ʃtrit (ʃ being the sound in *sh*ut)
> Traffic = 'tʃræfɪk (tʃ being the sound in *ch*ip).



Mine basically matches this, except "street" is closer to schreet / stcheet (sorry, not super familiar with IPA).  It's definitely not the same as "sh" in "shut," though somewhat similar.


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Hullo, mack.

Am I right in suspecting that when you write

Street = ʃtrit

what you really mean is
 
Street = sʧriːt

?

GS


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## natkretep

I heard a lot of jrink and shreet when I lived in Scotland, although I don't say them like that myself.


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## duvija

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Hullo, mack.
> 
> Am I right in suspecting that when you write
> 
> Street = ʃtrit
> 
> what you really mean is
> 
> Street = sʧriːt
> 
> ?
> 
> GS



More like 'sh'ʧri:t  (I'm using the normal alphabet for the first sound, in case somebody can't read the IPA)


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## duvija

In Chicago that palatal sounds is very pronounced. I found it quite funny at the beginning. In the East Coast is not that much 'ch'. Now, I can't stop the the palatalization.


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## -mack-

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Hullo, mack.
> 
> Am I right in suspecting that when you write
> 
> Street = ʃtrit
> 
> what you really mean is
> 
> Street = sʧriːt
> 
> ?
> 
> GS



I am wondering if my IPA "sh" ∫ symbol did not show up for you — I pronounce street with a _sh _(∫) sound. If shtreet were a word, _street _and _shtreet_ would almost be homophones in my pronunciation.

I think all of this arises from the fact that it is extremely difficult to produce the typical English _r_ (the unflapped, untapped, globally rare approximant sound) without palatalizing (dr -> djr, str -> shtr, tr -> chr) these sounds.


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## Truffula

I can barely make "drink" and "jrink" sound different when I say them.  So I figure I probably say either one, interchangeably, and no one can even tell


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## stephenlearner

This question has been added to a previous thread.
Cagey, moderator 

Hi,

When I listen to native speakers say drive, dry, and dress, I hear them say jrive, jry, and jress. (J is the sound of J in jeep)
But when I ask if this is right, some native speakers would say "No! We say dr, not jr."
However, no matter how *fast* I say dr dr dr..., I can't make a dr like you do.

I suppose you learned to say the words like drive, dry, and dress before you can read.
So after you learned to read these words, were you surprised to find they were drive, dry, and dress, not jrive, jry, and jress?

Thanks.


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## Keith Bradford

We learn them as _drive, dry _and _dress_, both in their spoken and their written forms.  Many of us still pronounce them that way, with what is sometimes called a *dry d*.

However, some British people in particular are prone to the *"wet" d*, which is what you have written down as j.  I think the technical term is a palatalised d.  This isn't in fact a j, but a sound halfway between the two.

I don't quite see why the _dr_ combination should be harder to pronounce than the _jr_ combination.  But console yourself that it doesn't matter, because this sound is not phonemic - that means that there do not exist any words in English where the distinction between dr and jr makes a difference in meaning.  Why not?  Because there are no English words beginning jr!

There are however cases of these combinations in the middle of a word or phrase - compare for example _Jud Rinder_ and _Judge Rinder, headrow _and_ hedgerow_.  Do you find those hard to pronounce?  Because they are phonemic, and you really need to make the effort to get them right.


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## Wai Ho

Hello, many American people and British people pronounce "drama" as "jrahma", but even if they use a "d" sound, there is a small "z" after the "d", "dzrahma".


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## Wordy McWordface

I think there is definitely some palatisation going on there.   I recall once playing 'I spy' with a very bright, very articulate five-year-old.  She was at that crucial stage where she knew her 'letter sounds' but couldn't yet read or write fluently.  The little girl's contribution went something like this:

'I spy with my little eye, something beginning with 'duh'    - dog
'I spy with my little eye, something beginning with 'ruh'     - ring
'I spy with my little eye, something beginning with 'druh'   - drink

To her keen pre-literate native-speaker ear, the word 'drink' didn't begin with a 'duh' like 'dog'.  She could clearly hear a blended 'dzr' sound which she interpreted as a different phoneme entirely.


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