# Demonstrative pronoun + article



## DarkChild

I don't think I've encountered another language where demonstrative is followed by an article:

Eg: Αυτός ο άντρας, αυτή η γυναίκα

What's the reason for this construction? Is it not redundant?


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## uress

Then you should learn Hungarian or Irish... _(And I haven't learnt other Celtic languges or Semitic languages yet...)_

Hungarian:
Αυτός/εκεινος ο άντρας, αυτή/εκεινη η γυναίκα, αυτο/εκεινο το αυτοκινητο = ez/az a férfi, ez/az a nő/ez/az az asszony, ez/az az autó.

Irish:
Αυτός/εκεινος ο άντρας, αυτή/εκεινη η γυναίκα, αυτο/εκεινο το αυτοκινητο = an fear seo/sin, an bhean seo/sin, an carr seo/sin.

No, it's not redundant as they don't mean the same, they just belong together.

And in Hungarian it's even less redundant as they, _all the 3 structures!_, have different meanings:
az a férfi = αυτός ο άντρας
a férfi = ο άντρας
az férfi = αυτός/εκεινος ειναι άντρας or αντρας ειναι (οποιος)...

In Irish they don't even stand together, next to each other but they still belong together even if they have to stand at both ends os the nominal phrase, something like ο μεγαλος γελαστος μελαχρινος αντρας αυτος. (And much much less but we also use this "strange" word order in Greek. It's colloquial. But this is the normal usage of demonstratives in Irish.)


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## Perseas

DarkChild said:


> I don't think I've encountered another language where demonstrative is followed by an article:
> 
> Eg: Αυτός ο άντρας, αυτή η γυναίκα
> 
> What's the reason for this construction? Is it not redundant?


Τhe demonstrative pronouns «αυτός-ή-ό» or «εκείνος-ή-ό» are used to indicate a certain person or a thing. The definite article is necessary and should be placed before the noun:
Αυτός ο άντρας or Εκείνη η γυναίκα
Ο άντρας αυτός or Η γυναίκα εκείνη

The dem. pronouns «τέτοιος-α-ο» and «τόσος-η-ο» are used to indicate the quality and the quantiy of a noun. Here there is no article.
Τέτοια κακοκαιρία είχαμε να δούμε από το 19...
Πέρασαν τόσα χρόνια από τότε.

Also, when the personal pronouns are used before a noun or an adjective, there is also the definite article: Εγώ ο Κώστας, εσύ ο σπουδαίος.


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## fdb

DarkChild said:


> I don't think I've encountered another language where demonstrative is followed by an article:



In Arabic demonstrative+article+noun is obligatory.


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## Rallino

Norwegian is also like that:

et vindu (a window)
dette vinduet (this window-the)


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## DarkChild

Actually, I just realized that the same occurs in Armenian too (which I speak).


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## soplamocos

I think, but i'm not sure at all, that when Αυτός is before the noun and the determinative, as in Αυτός ο άντρας, it gives emphasis to the noun, something "the man itself" (i'm pretty sure that it is wrong in English, in Spanish I could say "el mismísimo hombre")


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## uress

Think twice. If we want to emphasize a noun we use ο ιδιος.


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## Αγγελος

soplamocos said:


> I think, but i'm not sure at all, that when Αυτός is before the noun and the determinative, as in Αυτός ο άντρας, it gives emphasis to the noun, something "the man itself" (i'm pretty sure that it is wrong in English, in Spanish I could say "el mismísimo hombre")


It was so in Ancient Greek. Αυτός ὁ βασιλεύς εκέλευσε... = The king himself ordered... But of course, in Ancient Greek αυτός was not a demonstrative (the corresponding forms were οὗτος/αὕτη/τοῦτο).  You can still find such uses in καθαρεύουσα, but in today's Greek αυτός/αυτή/αυτό, whether placed before or after the noun but always accompanied by the article, are demonstratives.
Of course, used by themselves, they are either demonstrative pronouns (meaning "this/that person/thing/fact") or just emphatic personal pronouns (κι αυτός τι έκανε; = as for him, what did _he _do?) Also note that they can be modified by a relative clause: αυτός που περιμένω = he whom I am waiting for, αυτό που είπες = what you said


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