# Dangstein in Sussex



## Outerbystander

Can't get to grips as to the etymology of this estate in Surrey with a colourful past called: Dangstein. Doubt it is a Scots name (note stein/steen) Wonder if it is linked to: Tungsten? Anyway, seems to be no info on whom the Nevills/Nevilles bought/gotten the Dangstein estate. Think lady N was highly in love with her Hamburgh black grape or somesuch other exotic from Germany - as a guess, maybe then Dangstein might be named after a glasshouse makers from Germany at the time?

Edit "Reginald Neville bought the estate from the son of a wealthy Jamaican planter in 1851"

So in light of the above, maybe Dangstein was the name of a German (or more likely) a Jewish slave owner/plantation owner whom made their fortune in Jamaica?


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## Outerbystander

The son of the said wealthy plantation owner seems to of been an Captain James Lyon. Dangstein was formerky shown on maps as: Dene Stone, Dangstone, then by 1850 ( it is said) Dangstein. Guessing the curios Germanlooking spelling of: -stein, is due to James Lyon being a Scotch name - Stein also being a typical Scots name. Anyway, reckon its a unique topographic spelling and that it also sheds light on how placenames in Britain could be tweaked and infuenced by sundry kinds of folks in the past.


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## Stoggler

Stein or steyne (pronounced "steen") are relatively common place names in Sussex just down the road from Surrey, which is a dialect word for "stone"; perhaps the name change from stone to stein was to reflect the local pronunciation, or a much older name?


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## berndf

Stoggler said:


> in Sussex just down the road from Surrey


Dangstein actually *is* in Sussex and not in Surrey.


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## Outerbystander

Stoggler said:


> Stein or steyne (pronounced "steen" are relatively common place names in Sussex just down the road from Surrey, which is a dialect word for "stone"; that word may well have  Perhaps the name change from stone to stein was to reflect the local pronunciation, or a much older name?



Amazing all the sundry strong leads. Names/words like: Lyon, James and stein def link to Scotland and yet furthermore, Lyon is big lastname amongst Jewish slave/plantation owners and pirates in Jamaica. Still get the feeling the Dangstein spelling was influenced from Jamaica, are there any examples of these Sussex stein fieldnames (?)


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## Outerbystander

I have heard of Sussex toponyms: knucker (waterghosts) but not: stein for: stone.


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## Outerbystander

Stoggler said:


> Stein or steyne (pronounced "steen" are relatively common place names in Sussex just down the road from Surrey, which is a dialect word for "stone"; that word may well have  Perhaps the name change from stone to stein was to reflect the local pronunciation, or a much older name?



You are right: www.sussexarch.org.uk/saaf/stones.html#conc2


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## Stoggler

Outerbystander said:


> I have heard of Sussex toponyms: knucker (waterghosts) but not: stein for: stone.



There's Steyne Gardens in Worthing for one, plus The Old Steyne in Brighton where fishermen used to dry and repair their nets and where there used to be standing stones; today it is a park with a fountain with heavy traffic going round it. There are other Steins/Steynes in Angmering (near Littlehampton) and a Steyne House in Seaford if memory serves me right.


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## berndf

_Steyne/Steine_ apparently means _stony place_ and not _stone_. and is derived from OE _stoene_ and not from _stan_ (=_stone_).

Source.

Pronunciationwise, the outcome [i:] from OE [oe] is plausible.


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## Outerbystander

berndf said:


> _Steyne/Steine_ apparently means _stony place_ and not _stone_. and is derived from OE _stoene_ and not from _stan_ (=_stone_).
> 
> Source.
> 
> Pronunciationwise, the outcome [i:] from OE [oe] is plausible.


Any thoughts on the meaning of 'Dene Stone' and how it got to 'Dangstone' then 'Dangstein' and is it related to 'Tungsten'?


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## berndf

Outerbystander said:


> Any thoughts on the meaning of 'Dene Stone' and how it got to 'Dangstone' then 'Dangstein' and is it related to 'Tungsten'?


It seems you missed the point: If the source is right then _Steyne/Steine/Steyn/Stein_ is *not* from _stone_ but directly from OE _stoene ._

OE _stoene _is eventually of course related to _stone_ (from OE _stan_) but in a very, very distant past and only indirectly.

_Tungsten_ is modern Swedish neologism (18th century). It is not English.


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## Stoggler

Any connection to tungsten is coincidence.

I couldn't find stoene in Bosworth & Toller - is there another source for that word other than that one source you gave Bernd?


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## Stoggler

If the name of the place was Dene Stone at an earlier time, then one possible explanantion is that the dene element is a common Sussex place name element: there are loads of denes and deans in the Downs especially, and a few of the (now) suburbs of Brighton have dean or dene in their name (e.g. Withdean, Bevendean, Ovingdean, Rottingdean, Coldean). I can't recall seeing the dean/dene element away from the Downs though, as it usually refers to a valley.

No idea how it might have gone from dene to dang though: perhaps it's just down to new owners' whim


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## berndf

Stoggler said:


> I couldn't find stoene in Bosworth & Toller - is there another source for that word other than that one source you gave Bernd?


Only in Wikipedia, but that is most likely taken from that very source I quoted.


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## Outerbystander

This is the source: www.parksandgardens.org/places-and-people/site/5205/history

'valley stoney place' seems awkward and the wrong word order...


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## Stoggler

Outerbystander said:


> This is the source: www.parksandgardens.org/places-and-people/site/5205/history
> 
> 'valley stoney place' seems awkward and the wrong word order...



It doesn't mean that the people who put those elements together meant it to mean "valley stoney place" - they might have used well used toponym elements from that area not knowing their actual meaning, they might have just liked the sound of those components.


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## Stoggler

On the other hand... I've just looked in my "Sussex Place Names" book and there are some places with dean or den elements which mean woodland pasture, which seems a bit more likely considering the geography of the area.

Unfortunately Dangstein doesn't appear in the book so we're still not really any nearer to getting a decent answer


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## Outerbystander

Maybe the characters: Django and the Jewish plantation owner Schultz are somehow based on Dangstein and its Jewish plantation owning Lyon family - same timescsles! But seriously, would be nice to workout some likely etymologies for Dangstein. I even have a 'Petersfield Place Names - Petersfield Papers No. 1 1976' twentyleaf booklet by the: Petersfield Area Historical Society. Maybe if you could get other editions, Dangstein may well be covered?


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## berndf

This discussion has now become complete guesswork.i am closing the thread. If anyone has new insights please contact me via private conversation.


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