# scald



## shafaq

Most of us prepare sweets for Bairams(3ead). Some of these sweets requires to be *scalded by pouring on them (sugared) boiling-hot water.*
.
So; what is the Arabic expression(s) to meet scald(ing) when I intended to say: Mom has scalded the baklava(a type of sweet made by rolled out dough) that prepared for 3eid.

.
Whishing to reach how many; happy 3eid for all.


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## Faylasoof

The verb is سمط_ samaTa_ = to scald

 But may be also, سلق_ salaqa _= to cook in boiling water (- one of the meanings).

 So: 
 (My) Mom has scalded the baklava that she prepared for Eid

 أمي قد سمطت / سلقت البقلاوة التي أعدت للعيد

 Perhaps سمط  is better.

! عيد مبارك


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## Mahaodeh

The water with suger is called in Arabic قَطْر = qaTr; but we don't say "qaTTarna al-baqlawa", we say "Sabbna al-qaTra 3ala al-baqlawa" or "ghamasna al-zalabiya fil-qaTr".

salaqa is simply boiling (ex. "salaqna al-la7m aw il-khuDaar"); I don't think samaT is relevent at all here, I couldn't find such a meaning in the dictionary nor have I ever heard it used for cooking at all. It is used for food though, it is "to line it up or arrange it on the dining table"; from it there is a type of bread called simiiT.


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## WadiH

I think سلق is the best word for this process.


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## cherine

وادي، إنتو بتسلقوا البقلاوة؟ 
I agree with Maha, that salaqa is not the right verb, and that samaTa is not correct (at least it's not very common in MSA).

In Egypt, we say سقى بالعسل/بالشربات/بالسُكّر ...


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## WadiH

cherine said:


> وادي، إنتو بتسلقوا البقلاوة؟
> I agree with Maha, that salaqa is not the right verb, and that samaTa is not correct (at least it's not very common in MSA).
> 
> In Egypt, we say سقى بالعسل/بالشربات/بالسُكّر ...



I have no idea how baqlawa is made.  I just saw "boiling-hot water" and automatically thought "سلق", but I should have known better than to opine on anything relating to the culinary arts.


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## cherine

I'm not any better than you in this art, but pouring hot water onto something is different from boiling it in water, so there should be a difference.
 البقلاوة هي نوع من الحلوى تُصنع من الجُلاش (اسمه كدة في مصر، معرفش عندكو اسمه إيه، لكن الجلاش نوع من العجين تُصنع منه رقائق كالورق -نشتريها جاهزة-، تُرَصّ في طبقات بينها حشو حاذق أو حلو، أو تُشكَّل بأشكل أخرى، برضو بداخل حشو) محشو بالمكسرات. ​ If you search Google pictures you'll see some good photos of it.


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## WadiH

cherine said:


> I'm not any better than you in this art, but pouring hot water onto something is different from boiling it in water, so there should be a difference.
> البقلاوة هي نوع من الحلوى تُصنع من الجُلاش (اسمه كدة في مصر، معرفش عندكو اسمه إيه، لكن الجلاش نوع من العجين تُصنع منه رقائق كالورق -نشتريها جاهزة-، تُرَصّ في طبقات بينها حشو حاذق أو حلو، أو تُشكَّل بأشكل أخرى، برضو بداخل حشو) محشو بالمكسرات. ​ If you search Google pictures you'll see some good photos of it.



Oh I know very well what it is (I've even tried a chocolate version of it).  I've just never asked myself how it's actually made. 

  شكراً شيرين.


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## shafaq

cherine said:


> ..., but pouring hot water onto something is different from boiling it in water, so there should be a difference.
> ....


.
Mahaodeh and cherine, has taken rightly what I seeking for . We have a special verb (even two) for this process in Turkish; which means "pouring boiling-hot water on sth (but not to boil it in the water) or sometimes to immerse sth into boiling water just for short time for many purposes (semi-cooking, desinfection ...).
.


cherine said:


> :.....
> البقلاوة هي نوع من الحلوى تُصنع من الجُلاش (اسمه كدة في مصر، معرفش عندكو اسمه إيه، لكن الجلاش نوع من العجين تُصنع منه رقائق كالورق -نشتريها جاهزة-، تُرَصّ في طبقات بينها حشو حاذق أو حلو، أو تُشكَّل بأشكل أخرى، برضو بداخل حشو) محشو بالمكسرات. ​


Here is the right description for baklava (Enjoy your potion !).


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## cherine

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Oh I know very well what it is (I've even tried a chocolate version of it).  I've just never asked myself how it's actually made.
> 
> شكراً شيرين.


العفو
And thank _you_, I never knew there's a chocolate version!  As for how it's made, ahem... I barely know that they roll the جلاش with مكسرات inside, and then cook it in the oven and then pour the شربات/عسل on it. Details? في كتاب أبلة نظيرة (if you know the Egyptian famous cook book )


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## be.010

Hi!
In Syrian colloquial, I would say يسقّي (ysa22i). (In this case, ysa22i bel 2aTr)...
I wonder if this word is used in other dialects?!


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## Ghabi

be.010 said:


> I wonder if this word is used in other dialects?!



Hehe, you've missed Cherine's post (#5).


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## be.010

Ghabi said:


> Hehe, you've missed Cherine's post (#5).


Oops!
Thanks


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## Faylasoof

Hi All!

Firstly, I’m a great fan of <baklava> - in London and elsewhere there is no shortage of places where one can buy it. Secondly, I agree that the word <سمط> may not be that commonly used (even in MSA), but it does exist. Hans Wehr Steingass and Anthony Solomone, all three, have it as the exact equivalent of <to scald / he scalded>

The problem I had with the original request was that though I’m not the greatest cook in the world, I always thought that _baklava_ once baked was drizzled with either _cold_ / _warm _syrup or honey and not really scalded. However to comply with the original request, and apart from what Cherine suggested above, I guess here one could also say: 

رش / رشت عليها قطر أو عسل ساخن


But this implies drizzling hot / warm syrup or honey - not the same as scalding. 


BTW, Wehr also suggets <مسمط> for a <scalding house = place for scalding animal carcasses >. Not sure how common this is either.

Well, i tried.


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## azeid

Faylasoof said:


> Hi All!
> Firstly, I’m a great fan of <baklava>


Me too.But i don't know how they make it, i am just a big fan of eating it only.



> BTW, Wehr also suggets <مسمط> for a <scalding house = place for scalding animal carcasses >. Not sure how common this is either.


مَسْمط is used in Egypt as a restaurant for meat and فشة - كرشة - عكاوى -لحمة رأس - ممبار -كوارع  وماإلى آخره 
I don't know how to say that in English.

There is also سميط and its name nowadays is  بقسماط  (Rusk).


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## Josh_

In المنجد the definition of سمط is:

سَمَطَ، يسمُط، سَمْطًا: ذبيحةً: غمسها في الماء الحار لإزالة ما على جلدها من شعر أو ريش قبل طبخها أو شيّها
(samaTa: (of) slaughtered animals: to immerse in hot water so as to remove any hair or feathers from the skin before cooking or roasting/grilling/broiling.)

The definition of مَسْقَط is:

حوض أو مِحَمّ تغسل فيه بالماء الحار الحيوانات المذبوحة 
(A basin or tub in which slaughtered animals are washed with hot water.)

The definition in this dictionary was not general, but made specific reference to ذبيحة. So, if it is accurate, then it seems the verb refers to scalding only as concerns slaughtered animals being dressed and made ready for cooking. And the noun مسقط refers to the place where this scalding action takes place.

Of course, this definition goes for fusHa, not the dialects.  As Azeid said, a مسقط in Egypt can refer to any restaurant that specializes in certain specialty meat dishes.  

At any rate, we must be careful when using dictionary definitions. They should serve merely as guidelines -- to get a basic understanding of a word.  The _real_ meaning of a word is only to be found in its usage in the language.


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## Faylasoof

Josh_ said:


> In





Josh_ said:


> المنجد the definition of سمط is ... ...And the noun مسمِط refers to the place where this scalding action takes place.


 I gathered this from further reading. 



> Of course, this definition goes for fusHa, not the dialects. As Azeid said, a





> مسقط in Egypt can refer to any restaurant that specializes in certain specialty meat dishes.


I think, Shafaq most likely had fus7a in mind. Which brings me to my next point. _How do you then say (in fus7a) <to scald>? General use, i.e. when you scald yourself with scalding water!_



> At any rate, we must be careful when using dictionary definitions. They should serve merely as guidelines -- to get a basic understanding of a word. The _real_ meaning of a word is only to be found in its usage in the language.


 Couldn’t agree more Josh! Given that many dictionaries don’t give usage, something we've discussed before, the only way I can find out how a word is used is to throw it here and get some feedback. Seems to work well! 

Incidentally, the point about usage is important and something I’ve made too in other forums esp. Urdu (Indo-Iranian language section here) as we do find the same problem of usage in other languages too, as one would expect.

BTW, the use of hot / warm syrup or honey on baklava seems to be a practice in Iran too as this recipe indicates.

So, Azeid now you can make it too! 

… and good to know the various usages in Egypt. 

Thank you all!


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## cherine

Josh_ said:


> The definition of مَسْقَط is:
> 
> حوض أو مِحَمّ تغسل فيه بالماء الحار الحيوانات المذبوحة
> (A basin or tub in which slaughtered animals are washed with hot water.)
> [...]
> And the noun مسقط refers to the place where this scalding action takes place.
> 
> Of course, this definition goes for fusHa, not the dialects. As Azeid said, a مسقط in Egypt can refer to any restaurant that specializes in certain specialty meat dishes.


Josh, is this a typo or you really meant masqat? Azeid talked about masmaT (pronounced maSmaT in Egypt). I'm asking only to make sure there's no confusion.



Faylasoof said:


> I think, Shafaq most likely had fus7a in mind. Which brings me to my next point. _How do you then say (in fus7a) <to scald>? General use, i.e. when you scald yourself with scalding water!_


I think the verb saqaa سقى is perfect in the context of the baklava
سقى البقلاوة بالشراب المُحَلَّى
saqaa 'l-baqlaawa(ta) bish-sharaabi 'l-mu7alla.

But I don't know what is to scal oneselve in scalding water, so I can't suggest a translation here. 



> BTW, the use of hot / warm syrup or honey on baklava seems to be a practice in Iran too as this recipe indicates.
> 
> So, Azeid now you can make it too!
> 
> … and good to know the various usages in Egypt.


I think this is _*the*_ way to make it everywhere. 

And, maybe I should add that some people in Egypt pronounce it "be2laawa", and others "ba2laawa".


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## Ghabi

cherine said:


> But I don't know what is to scal oneselve in scalding water, so I can't suggest a translation here.



I guess that'd be  اتلسع or اتحرق.


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## Josh_

cherine said:


> Josh, is this a typo or you really meant masqat? Azeid talked about masmaT (pronounced maSmaT in Egypt). I'm asking only to make sure there's no confusion.


Oh yes.  I meant مسمط.  Not sure why I wrote مسقط.  Guess I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing.

To scald oneself is merely to burn oneself with a hot liquid, such as boiling water.  So Ghabi's suggestions would probably work. Do these make sense: المية المغلية لسعته/حرقته or اتلسع/اتحرق من المية المغلية?

Added:  I didn't see the part where Faylasoof wanted it in fusHa.  Perhaps: حرقه/لسعه الماء المغلي.


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## Faylasoof

I hope nobody feels I'm going on and on about this! 





cherine said:


> ..I think the verb saqaa





cherine said:


> سقى is perfect in the context of the baklava
> سقىالبقلاوةبالشرابالمُحَلَّى
> saqaa 'l-baqlaawa(ta) bish-sharaabi 'l-mu7alla.


 Oh! I don’t dispute this as it makes perfect sense! سقى = to drink / irrigate / dip etc. 

As there was a request for the Arabic equivalent for the verb <to scald> so I gave my above suggestion above as best as I could ( post # 2 and also 14 though not quite). But come to think of it, most recipes don’t involve scalding as such. However, word-hunting can be fun!



Josh_ said:


> ...To scald oneself is merely to burn oneself with a hot liquid, such as boiling water. So Ghabi's suggestions would probably work. Do these make sense:





Josh_ said:


> الميةالمغليةلسعته/حرقته or اتلسع/اتحرقمنالميةالمغلية?
> 
> Added: I didn't see the part where Faylasoof wanted it in fus7a. Perhaps: حرقه/لسعهالماءالمغلي.


 Yes, I too had something like these in mind. Many thanks! 

Curious as I was to find out if there really exists a single word equivalent in fus7a for the English verb <to scald>, I started looking around a bit more. Funnily enough I hadn’t consulted Al-Mawrid – a lexicon that usually gives descriptions rather than just word lists. This is what it says: 

 < یُحرق(بسائل حارّ أو بخار) (1> ​  < یَسمُط : یخضع لفعل الماء الحار أو البخار، ینظف الصحون بہذہ الطریقة..( أخ)  (2>​ 
So perhaps there is a broader definition of سمط_ samaTa_  than that given in al-Munjid – a hot favourite amongst my elders – which quite likely represents the original meaning. Subsequently, the meaning seems to have been extended. Make sense?


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## cherine

Faylasoof said:


> I hope nobody feels I'm going on and on about this!



Of course not! Please don't hesitate in continuing the discussion as long as you're not convinced or still finding more meanings. 



> Oh! I don’t dispute this as it makes perfect sense! سقى = to drink / irrigate / dip etc.


As you know, one word in a language usually has more than just one equivalent in another language. Choosing the right equivalent or translation depends on the context. This is why I said that in the context of scalding baklava with syrup, the verb saqa is the best translation. As you give here, the meaning of "irrigation" is the closest one.
To dip is يغمس and it's not the correct one for this, because we don't dip the baklava in the syrup but pour it onto it.


> Curious as I was to find out if there really exists a single word equivalent in fus7a for the English verb <to scald>, I started looking around a bit more. Funnily enough I hadn’t consulted Al-Mawrid – a lexicon that usually gives descriptions rather than just word lists. This is what it says:
> 
> < یُحرق(بسائل حارّ أو بخار) (1> ​  < یَسمُط : یخضع لفعل الماء الحار أو البخار، ینظف الصحون بہذہ الطریقة..( أخ)  (2>​
> So perhaps there is a broader definition of سمط_ samaTa_  than that given in al-Munjid – a hot favourite amongst my elders – which quite likely represents the original meaning. Subsequently, the meaning seems to have been extended. Make sense?


Of course it makes sense. But I still say that the verb samaTa is not commonly used, so I don't recommend it. As for أحرق and لسع they're perfect translation in the context of burning with a hot liquid, but they wouldn't work in the context of making sweets.


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## Faylasoof

cherine said:


> ...As you know, one word in a language usually has more than just one equivalent in another language. Choosing the right equivalent or translation depends on the context. This is why I said that in the context of scalding baklava with syrup, the verb saqa is the best translation. As you give here, the meaning of "irrigation" is the closest one....



Agree absolutely!



> Of course it makes sense. But I still say that the verb samaTa is not commonly used, so I don't recommend it.



What a pity! Mind you we can always start. Then it might become common - if others follow! (Just a joke).
BTW, I've always had ambitions to be a _wordsmith_. 



> As for أحرق and لسع they're perfect translation in the context of burning with a hot liquid, but they wouldn't work in the context of making sweets.



Oh yes! This is was what I was trying to say above for _baklava_. Even in English one wouldn't say you scald / burn baklava / sweets in general. The closest we get to this is when we   _caramelize_ sugar but even this is something different.


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## cherine

Faylasoof said:


> Agree absolutely!


I'm glad we do. 


> What a pity! Mind you we can always start. Then it might become common - if others follow! (Just a joke).
> BTW, I've always had ambitions to be a _wordsmith_.


Oh! If only we were influential enough, I would've changed/corrected so many things that I see every day and make me go grrrrr 


> Oh yes! This is was what I was trying to say above for _baklava_. Even in English one wouldn't say you scald / burn baklava / sweets in general. The closest we get to this is when we   _caramelize_ sugar but even this is something different.


Agree again.


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