# Fingers and toes, snails and slugs, ... : similarity reflected in names or not?



## ThomasK

I see there has been a question about fingers (and toes) elsewhere, but my question is more general: what concepts/ things are rendered using the same root in one language and using different roots in others? 

*Fingers and toes* are generally referred to with two different words, I think, but not in Spanish, so I gather. Or: we consider *snails and slugs* to be _slakken _(two of a [one] kind], but English seems to focus on the difference... 

Can you find other things or concepts considered as parallels/... in one language or as (apparently) different in the other? 

Maybe *scissors *and *trousers* could fit in here too; considered plural in English, not in (many) other languages... 

_[I might not have worded the question in the perfect way. Suggestions for improvement welcome!]_


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## Yendred

ThomasK said:


> scissors


In French too: _des ciseaux _[si.zo] (mpl)



ThomasK said:


> Can you find other things or concepts considered as parallels/... in one language or as (apparently) different in the other?


I can think of French _poitrine_, which is unisex, while in English it is _breast _for a woman, and _chest _for a man.

On the opposite, English _hair _can match French _cheveu _(on the top of the head) or _poil _(on the rest of the body).

For some animals, English makes the distinction between:

living animals (_pig, calf, sheep, ox/steer/bullock_),
and meat to be eaten (_pork, veal, mutton, beef_)
It's not the case in French:

_cochon/porc_ can both be used for the living animal (_pig_) or the meat (_pork_).
_veau _is both _calf _and _veal_.
_mouton _is both _sheep _and _mutton_.
_boeuf _is both _ox/steer/bullock _and _beef_.
Are these the kind of examples you want to share?


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## Yendred

English _wheel _can be at the same time:





In French, this is _une roue_.




In French, this is _un volant_.




In French, this is _une barre_ (also often called by mistake _un gouvernail_).


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## Penyafort

ThomasK said:


> *Fingers and toes* are generally referred to with two different words, I think, but not in Spanish, so I gather.


Most Romance languages, not only Spanish, call all of them "fingers", and if more is needed, "fingers of the foot".

French may be the only one using a derived from ARTICULUS, _orteils_, for the toes. It seems that the word can also mean "toes" in Portuguese (artelhos) and Occitan (artèlhs), but I'd say it's not as common as in French. In Catalan, the _artells _are the knuckles, never the toes, and I find this use to be more proper because they _articulate _the fingers. In Spanish, artejo also exists, but the common one for the knucles is _nudillos_, little knots.


ThomasK said:


> Or: we consider *snails and slugs* to be _slakken _(two of a [one] kind], but English seems to focus on the difference...


To me, they're also very different, as the words are different, even if the origin for slug is Latin for snail.

*caragol *'snail' (Probably from a pre-Roman root *kar- related to shells)
*llimac *'slug' (From Latin *limacu, < limace 'snail')

But then, for us a _caragol _is also a nail, as in nail and hammer.


ThomasK said:


> Can you find other things or concepts considered as parallels/... in one language or as (apparently) different in the other?


In Catalan, humans, shirts/jumpers and bottles have a *coll *'neck', aside from being a mountain pass too. In other languages, the words vary.

Also, *el llum* and *la llum* only change in gender, and both refer to 'light' in a way for us, but the first one is used for objects which produce light, usually _lamps_, while the second one refers to _light _in general.


ThomasK said:


> Maybe *scissors *and *trousers* could fit in here too; considered plural in English, not in (many) other languages...


I'd say these are pluralia tanta, also plural in quite a few other languages, at least in Europe.


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## ThomasK

@Yendred: can you imagine more such words? I do not think _des vacances_ fits in here, but we only have a real singular and a real plural, I would say: _vakantie/s_...

@Penyafort: impressive list, interesting suggestions. I wonder now whether the metaphoric use (as in col(l), I guess) needs to be included. Yendred's case with the wheels is different, I think, but I am not so sure...


Penyafort said:


> 1. Most Romance languages, not only Spanish, call all of them "*fingers*", and if more is needed, "*fingers of the foot*".
> 
> French may be the only one using a derived from ARTICULUS, _*orteils*_, for the toes. It seems that the word can also mean "toes" in Portuguese (artelhos) and Occitan (artèlhs), but I'd say it's not as common as in French. In Catalan, the _artells _are the knuckles, never the toes, and I find this use to be more proper because they _articulate _the fingers. In Spanish, artejo also exists, but the common one for the knucles is _nudillos_, little knots.
> 
> 2. [I suppose you are referring to snails/ slugs here?] To me, they're also very different, as the words are different, even if the origin for slug is Latin for snail.
> 
> *caragol *'snail' (Probably from a pre-Roman root *kar- related to shells)
> *llimac *'slug' (From Latin *limacu, < limace 'snail')
> 
> But then, for us a _caragol _is also a nail, as in nail and hammer. *Would you have any explanation for this double use? *
> 
> 3. In Catalan, humans, shirts/jumpers and bottles have a *coll *'neck', aside from being a mountain pass too. In other languages, the words vary. I* think one of them is used metaphorically as referring to a curvy road, like a coll of a shirt, etc. *
> 
> 4. Also, *el llum* and *la llum* only change in gender, and both refer to 'light' in a way for us, but the first one is used for objects which produce light, usually _lamps_, while the second one refers to _light _in general.
> 
> 5. I'd say these are pluralia tanta, also plural in quite a few other languages, at least in Europe. Not 4, I think. Or ?


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## ThomasK

Yendred said:


> English _wheel _can be at the same time:
> 
> View attachment 60414
> In French, this is _une roue_. In Dutch _*een wie*_l (with een band/ tyre)...
> 
> View attachment 60415
> In French, this is _un volant_. *This is a stuur(wiel) in Dutch, but steering wheel in English, I think.  *
> 
> View attachment 60417
> In French, this is _une barre_ (also often called by mistake _un gouvernail_). In Dutch stuurwiel, but as _gouvernail_: *roer *(English _*rudder*_), I think.



But interesting idea. In Dutch any _*wiel *_refers to driving, I think, if meant for steering, we shall turn to *stuur*, I think.


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## Terio

Spanish _reloj_ may be  :

_montre_ (in French) / _watch_ (in English)

_horloge _(in French) / _clock_ (in English)


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## Yendred

Terio said:


> Spanish _reloj_


Do you know that _reloj_ and _horloge_ have the same etymology? They both come from Ancient Greek _hōrológion _(literally: _"which says time"), _originally any device that can tell time, like a sundial_._


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## Terio

Yes. But through latin _horologium._

And _reloj_ through old catalan _relotge, _which explains its rather strange ending for a Spanish word: very few words end wit a j.


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## ThomasK

I have been wondering: is the clock/watch example an illustration of the above? In Dutch we have uurwerk ('hourwork'), horloge, klok, depending on the size, I think, and maybe on whether they ring or not. But as all of them have hands or figures/..., they are clearly linked - or so i would say. Is there anything surprising about it, do you think? 

_I am taking this fundamental question to EHL, to see how a topic like this can be discussed, is discussed in linguistics. Ohterwise this might turn into a side thread... _


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Finger(s), toe(s): Both are *«δάκτυλο»* [ˈðaktilo̞] (neut. nom. sing.), *«δάκτυλα»* [ˈðaktila] (neut. nom. pl.) and with dissimilation *«δάχτυλο/δάχτυλα»* [ˈðaxtilo̞]/[ˈðaxtila] (the latter, although a colloquilaism, prevails by far in every-day language) < Byz.Gr. neuter noun *«δάκτυλον» dáktylon* < Classical masc. noun *«δάκτυλος/δάκτυλοι» dắktŭlŏs* (nom. sing.)/*dắktŭloi* (nom. pl.) --> _finger(s), toe(s)_ (with no etymology; according to Beekes the Boeotian «δακκύλιος» dăkkúlĭŏs presupposes an earlier form *δάτκυλος *dắtkŭlŏs, therefore it's Pre-Greek).
We do not make a distinction between fingers and toes.

Snail, slug: The former is *«σαλιγκάρι»* [s̠aliŋˈgaɾi] (neut.) the latter is *«γυμνοσάλιαγκας»* [ʝimno̞ˈs̠aʎaŋgas̠] (masc.) i.e. _naked-snail_. So, the root is the same: Byz.Gr. neuter diminutive *«σαλιγκάρι(ο)ν» salingári(o)n*, from an earlier *«σάλιαγκας» sáliangas* (masc.) & *«σάλιακας» sáliakas* (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«σίαλος» síălŏs* --> _spittle, slobber_ (probably onomatopoeic from the sound of spitting; compare «σιαίνω» sĭaínō (to cause antipathy) which seems to be transformation on the basis of «σίαλος»).

Breast, chest: Both are *«στήθος»* [ˈs̠tiθo̞s̠] (neut.), although for a woman's breast we tend to use the noun in plural: *«στήθια»* [ˈs̠tiθça] < Classical neut. noun *«στῆθος» stêtʰŏs*.

Clock(s), watch(es): Both are *«ρολόι/ρολόγια»* [ɾo̞ˈlo̞i] (neut. nom. sing.)/[ɾo̞ˈlo̞ʝa] (neut. nom. pl.), an aphetism and apocope of the ancient *«ὡρολόγιον» hōrŏlógĭŏn* (neut.) --> _sundial, clock, (Byzantine) book of Horologion_, a compound: Classical feminine noun *«ὥρᾱ» hṓrā* + Classical v. *«λέγω» légō*.

Limb(s), article(s): *«Άρθρο/άρθρα»* [ˈarθro̞] (neut. nom. sing.)/[ˈarθra] (neut. nom. pl.) < Classical neuter noun *«ἄρθρον» ắrtʰrŏn*. «Άρθρο» for limb is medical jargon (not used in every-day language).


ThomasK said:


> Maybe *scissors *and *trousers* could fit in here too; considered plural in English, not in (many) other languages...
> 
> _[I might not have worded the question in the perfect way. Suggestions for improvement welcome!]_


_Scissors_ is singular in Greek: *«Ψαλίδι»* [p͡s̠aˈliði] (neut.) < Βyz.Gr. neuter diminutive *«ψαλίδι(ο)ν» psalídi(o)n* of the Classical 3rd declension feminine noun *«ψαλίς/-λίδος» psălís* (nom. sing.)/*psălídŏs* (gen. sing.) --> _scissors, shears_; the plural *«ψαλίδια»* [p͡s̠aˈliðʝa] is the car's _damper fork_.

As is _trousers_: *«Παντελόνι»* [pande̞ˈlo̞ni] (neut. nom. sing.) < It. pantalone (_pantaloni_ in plural). The name comes from the comedic character of _Pantalone_ in Commedia dell'arte who wore campy or kitsch trousers.


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## Yendred

apmoy70 said:


> Finger(s), toe(s): Both are *«δάκτυλο»* [ˈðaktilo̞] (neut. nom. sing.), *«δάκτυλα»* [ˈðaktila] (neut. nom. pl.) (...) < Classical masc. noun *«δάκτυλος/δάκτυλοι» dắktŭlŏs (nom. sing.)/dắktŭloi (nom. pl.)*


Many derived words from Greek _dắktŭlŏs _in European languages. 
Just an odd example with French _dactylographier_/Italian _dattilografare, _which mean_ "to write with a keyboard" _although etymologically, they mean _"to write with a finger" _
One can say a keyboard requires all fingers, on the opposite of hand writing...


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## ThomasK

apmoy70 said:


> Greek:
> 
> Limb(s), article(s): *«Άρθρο/άρθρα»* [ˈarθro̞] (neut. nom. sing.)/[ˈarθra] (neut. nom. pl.) < Classical neuter noun *«ἄρθρον» ắrtʰrŏn*. «Άρθρο» for limb is medical jargon (not used in every-day language).
> 
> 
> As is _trousers_: *«Παντελόνι»* [pande̞ˈlo̞ni] (neut. nom. sing.) < It. pantalone (_pantaloni_ in plural). The name comes from the comedic character of _Pantalone_ in Commedia dell'arte who wore campy or kitsch trousers.


Just to be sure, Apmoy: in Greek the same root can refer to both the arms and legs and the joints then? Which one could be the oldest meaning? The joints?


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## Awwal12

In Russian a limb is конечность (konéchnost') - literally "end/tip-ness". A rather formal term, and unlikely too ancient.


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## ThomasK

Yendred said:


> Many derived words from Greek _dắktŭlŏs _in European languages.
> Just an odd example with French _dactylographier_/Italian _dattilografare, _which mean_ "to write with a keyboard" _although etymologically, they mean _"to write with a finger" _
> One can say a keyboard requires all fingers, on the opposite of hand writing...


I suppose those are examples (instances) of metonymy: the meaning "jumps"/ shifts from the finger


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## ThomasK

Had another: buying and selling are referred to in Dutch as _kopen _and _verkopen_...


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## Terio

Yendred said:


> Many derived words from Greek _dắktŭlŏs _in European languages.
> Just an odd example with French _dactylographier_/Italian _dattilografare, _which mean_ "to write with a keyboard" _although etymologically, they mean _"to write with a finger" _
> One can say a keyboard requires all fingers, on the opposite of hand writing...


In French, _dactylo_ (older _dactylographe)_ is also an employee who types texts on a typewriter or a computer keyboard. In Canada, it also means «typewriter» (the machine). Maybe I should say «meant», since they are rather outmoded nowadays.


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## elroy

@Yendred

Actually, at least 90% of the time:
une roue = a _tire_
un volant = a *steering*_ wheel_


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## Linnets

Italian:

fingers/toes ~ both _dita_ (_diti_ is popular) but the big toe is called _alluce_;
snail/slug ~ _chiocciola_ and _lumaca_ (at least in Tuscany, in other parts of Italy is different);
breast/chest ~ perhaps _seno_ e _torace_;
clock/watch ~ _sveglia_ and _orologio _(note that _sveglia_ means actually 'alarm clock' but is used also for those devices that doesn't have that function; in other parts of Italy they would call it _orologio_);
scissors/trousers ~ _forbici_ and _pantaloni_ (older _calzoni_) all plurals;
wheel/steering wheel/steering oar ~ _ruota_, _volante_ (vulgar _volano_) and (_ruota_ _del_) _timone_;
lamp/bulb/light ~ _lampada_, _lampadina_, and _luce _(popularly also _lume_ for lamp and light and _lampada_ for bulb);
living animal/meat ~ no difference;
_neck/collar ~ collo _and_ colletto_ (but also_ collo_ for both).
Also notice that in English a _shipwreck_ may indicate both the accident and the wreckage; in Italian they are respectively _naufragio_ and _relitto_.


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## Awwal12

Terio said:


> Spanish _reloj_ may be  :
> 
> _montre_ (in French) / _watch_ (in English)
> 
> _horloge _(in French) / _clock_ (in English)


In fact, in Russian it's not only the same concept as well, but it's also denoted by the word which literally means "_hours_" - часы [ʨɪ'sɨ].


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## Yendred

Awwal12 said:


> the word which literally means "_hours_" - часы [ʨɪ'sɨ].


I guess "сейчас" (= _now_) is similar to Spanish _ahora_: literally something like "_at this time_", am I wrong?



elroy said:


> Actually, at least 90% of the time:
> une roue = a _tire_
> un volant = a *steering*_ wheel_


I agree for _steering wheel, _but isn't _tire _(or _tyre_), rather this:




In French, _un pneu(matique)._

And what about _la barre/le gouvernail_, the wheel to drive a ship(*)? Do you have a specific noun for it?

(*) By the way, this is another example for @ThomasK's question:
In French, _bateau_ can both match the English _boat _or _ship_, depending on size essentially, I guess. Just like for _reloj/clock/watch_, the nuance is about size, for which some languages make a distinction, and some don't.

We also have in French the word _navire_, which is theoritically a watercraft which goes on the sea, but _bateau _is generic and can commonly be used for any watercraft.
A false friend is the French word _vaisseau_, which should not be confused with _vessel_, as _vessel _seems to be generic, while French _vaisseau _is usually used only for military ships.


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## elroy

Yendred said:


> isn't _tire _(or _tyre_), rather this:


Yes.  I misunderstood your earlier post, sorry.  

So in English we _do_ make a distinction between "roue" and "volant": one is "wheel" and one is "*steering* wheel."  "steering wheel" is rarely shortened to "wheel," and when it is, it's clear from context that a steering wheel is meant. 


Yendred said:


> And what about _la barre/le gouvernail_, the wheel to drive a ship? Do you have a specific noun for it?


Yes, "helm."


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## Awwal12

Yendred said:


> I guess "сейчас" (= _now_) is similar to Spanish _ahora_: literally something like "_at this time_", am I wrong?


Of course. Cf. archaic в то́т же ча́с "at once"; то́тчас (id.).
"Часъ" meant "time" in Proto-Slavic ("час" still can mean "a moment of time" in elevated/poetic Russian, likely under Church Slavonic influence) but generally evolved into "hour" in Russian.


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## Yendred

Linnets said:


> in English a _shipwreck_ may indicate both the accident and the wreckage; in Italian they are respectively _naufragio_ and _relitto_.


Good example  In French, it's respectively _naufrage_ and _épave_.


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## elroy

In English, “ticket” can mean:

(1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
(2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
(3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)
(4) a help desk / tech support ticket
(5) a raffle ticket
(6) a lottery ticket

I highly doubt there is a single other language that uses the same word for all six of these.   I’d be curious to know how many words other languages use.

Ironically, in Spain “ticket” means “receipt,” which is one of the (only ) things “ticket” does _not_ mean in English.


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## Perseas

Yendred said:


> Just an odd example with French _dactylographier_/Italian _dattilografare, _which mean_ "to write with a keyboard" _although etymologically, they mean _"to write with a finger" _


You can combine the two meanings: "to write with a keyboard using one's fingers".  

In Greek the verb δακτυλογραφώ is used but it's formal and you rarely hear it in everyday language.
The noun δακτυλογράφος, which describes occupation, is nowadays as old-fashioned as a typewriter.
As typewriters came to Greece from the Western Europe, δακτυλογράφος came into Greek from French dactylographier.


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## Penyafort

Linnets said:


> Also notice that in English a _shipwreck_ may indicate both the accident and the wreckage; in Italian they are respectively _naufragio_ and _relitto_.





Yendred said:


> Good example  In French, it's respectively _naufrage_ and _épave_.



In Catalan it'd be *naufragi *i *derelicte*. Although I'd say not that many people know the last word.


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## Awwal12

elroy said:


> In English, “ticket” can mean:
> 
> (1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
> (2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
> (3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)
> (4) a help desk / tech support ticket
> (5) a raffle ticket
> (6) a lottery ticket
> 
> I highly doubt there is a single other language that uses the same word for all six of these.   I’d be curious to know how many words other languages use.


Russian uses билет (bilét, from French) for 1, 2, 5 and 6. Also "raffle" seems to be denoted by the same word as "lottery" - лотерея (loteréya). 3 is квитанция (kvitántsiya, from Dutch); 4 is талон, I suppose (talón, from French).


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## elroy

Awwal12 said:


> Russian uses билет (bilét, from French) for 1, 2, 5 and 6.


Interesting that 1 and 2 = 5 and 6!


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## Yendred

elroy said:


> (1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
> (2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
> (5) a raffle ticket
> (6) a lottery ticket


In French, these are covered by _billet_ \bi.jɛ\ or _ticket_ \ti.kɛ\, with some nuances (size again...), for example _un billet d'avion_, but _un ticket de métro_.



elroy said:


> (3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)


In French, _une amende_ or _une contravention_ (e.g. _pour excès de vitesse_)



elroy said:


> (4) a help desk / tech support ticket


In this case, French has no specific word and uses the anglicism _ticket_.


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## elroy

I think European Spanish distinguishes between (1) entrada and (2) billete.


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## Linnets

elroy said:


> In English, “ticket” can mean:
> 
> (1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
> (2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
> (3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)
> (4) a help desk / tech support ticket
> (5) a raffle ticket
> (6) a lottery ticket


In Italian:
1) _biglietto_ (_del cinema_);
2) _biglietto_ (_del treno_);
3) _multa_, _contravvenzione_, _ammenda_ (formal);
4) _ticket_ (seldom used);
5) _biglietto_ (_della lotteria_);
6) _schedina_ (_del lotto_).

Receipt is _scontrino_; ironically _ticket_ in Italian is used mostly for the national health service tax, a usage unknown in English.


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## elroy

Linnets said:


> 5) _biglietto_ (_della lotteria_);
> 6) _schedina_ (_del lotto_).


So “lotteria” is “raffle” not “lottery”?  
And you use different words for “raffle ticket” and “lottery ticket”!
Very interesting!


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## Linnets

elroy said:


> So “lotteria” is “raffle” not “lottery”?
> And you use different words for “raffle ticket” and “lottery ticket”!


In Italy _lotteria_ is a game where you buy a ticket with a serial number; if they draw the number you'll win.
_Lotto_ is instead a game where you choose the numbers and write them on a ticket; if they draw the numbers you'll win. A bit like old _Totocalcio_ (football pools).


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## symposium

Awwal12 said:


> 3 is квитанция (kvitántsiya, from Dutch)


I think I can confidently assume it came from Italian "quietanza" (a receipt) via Dutch...


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> Had another: buying and selling are referred to in Dutch as _kopen _and _verkopen_...


Swedish have köpa - buying, and sälja - selling. Seems as one is related to the Dutch word and the other to the English.


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## Awwal12

AutumnOwl said:


> Swedish have köpa - buying, and sälja - selling. Seems as one is related to the Dutch word


Er... HOW?   Köpa is undoubtedly related to Gothic *kaupjan (whence proto-Slavic *kupiti "to buy") and German kaufen (and Dutch kopen, to that matter).
The Dutch word in question is "kwitantie", ultimately from Old French "quittance" (Italian "quietanza" is borrowed from French too).


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## Yendred

Awwal12 said:


> "quittance" (Italian "quietanza" is borrowed from French too)


These words ultimately come from Latin _quietus_ (which also gave _quiet_), as when you have paid your _quittance/quietanza_, you can be quiet.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Just to be sure, Apmoy: in Greek the same root can refer to both the arms and legs and the joints then? Which one could be the oldest meaning? The joints?


Yes, but to be clear, only in medical language they're the same, not in the vernacular, and yes, its oldest meaning is indeed _joint_ (from the verb *«ἀραρίσκω» ărărískō* --> _to fit together, joint_, from PIE *h₂er- _to fit together_ cf Skt. ईर्म (īrmá), _arm_, Lat. armus).

A couple more I remembered:

Leg, foot: Both are *«πόδι»* [ˈpo̞ði] (neut.) < Byz.Gr. neuter diminutive *«πόδι(ο)ν» pódi(o)n* of earlier 3rd declension masc. noun *«πούς» poús* (nom. sing.), *«ποδός» pŏdós* (gen. sing.). We do not differentiate between the two (since ancient times).

Tyre, rubber band, rubber in general: All are *«λάστιχο»* [ˈlas̠tixo̞] (neut. nom. sing.), *«λάστιχα»* [ˈlas̠tixa] (neut. nom. pl.), the generic name for _rubber_, which is the nominalization, aphetism and dissimilation of the earlier adj. *«ἐλαστός» ĕlăstós* (and *«ἐλατός» ĕlătós* or *«ἐλαστικός» ĕlăstĭkós*) (masc.), *«ἐλαστή» ĕlăstḗ* (fem.), *«ἐλαστόν» ĕlăstón* (neut.) --> _ductile, (of a metal or other material) malleable_, a deverbative from the v. *«ἐλαύνω» ĕlaúnō* --> _to drive, push, forge (metal)_, from PIE *h₁elh₂- _to drive, move_, with no certain cognates outside Greek. Sometimes, in order to differentiate between the tyre and the rubber band, we use the diminutive *«λαστιχάκι»* [las̠tiˈxaci] (neut.) for the latter.


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## apmoy70

elroy said:


> In English, “ticket” can mean:
> 
> (1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
> (2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
> (3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)
> (4) a help desk / tech support ticket
> (5) a raffle ticket
> (6) a lottery ticket
> 
> I highly doubt there is a single other language that uses the same word for all six of these.   I’d be curious to know how many words other languages use.
> 
> Ironically, in Spain “ticket” means “receipt,” which is one of the (only ) things “ticket” does _not_ mean in English.


Greek:

(1) *«Εισιτήριο»* [is̠iˈtiɾio̞] (neut.) < Koine nominalized neut. adj. *«εἰσιτήριον» eisĭtḗrĭŏn*, which since the 2nd c. CE described the fee one had to pay in order to participate in a public event, lit. _entrance-deposit_ < Classical adj. *«εἰσιτήριος, -ος, -ον» eisĭtḗrĭŏs* (masc. & fem.), *«εἰσιτήριον» eisĭtḗrĭŏn* (neut.).
(2) idem
(3a) *«Κλήση»* [ˈklis̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«κλῆσις» klêsĭs* (nom. sing.), *«κλήσεως» klḗsĕōs* (gen. sing.) --> _calling, call, calling into court, summons, prosecution, invitation to a feast, invocation_ (PIE *kl̥h₁- _zero-grade_ of *kelh₁- _to call_). The thinking is that the public officer _summons_ you, the offender, to pay for your offence (only for _speeding-ticket_). For every other offence:
(3b) *«Πρόστιμο»* [ˈpro̞s̠timo̞] (neut.) < Classical neut. noun *«πρόστιμον» próstĭmŏn* --> _penalty, fine_, a compound: Classical prefix & preposition *«πρός» prós* + Classical fem. noun *«τιμή» tĭmḗ*.
(4) *«Κουπόνι»* [kuˈpo̞ni] (neut.) < Fr. _coupon_.
(5) *«Λαχνός»* [laˈxno̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical deverbative masc. noun *«λαχμός» lăkʰmós* --> _lot, share_ < Classical v. *«λαγχάνω» lănkʰắnō* --> _to obtain by lot (an office, the right of a lawsuit), to obtain one's share_ (PIE *lengʰ- _to obtain_ with no known cognates outside Greek).
(6) *«Λαχείο»* [laˈçio̞] (neut.), a modern construction (1838) based on the ancient v. «λαγχάνω» (see above), calqued for the Fr. _loterie_.
So, in Greek, only (1) & (2) are the same.


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## Penyafort

In Catalan, regarding "ticket":
(1, access to show) *entrada *(e.g. entrada de cinema, entrada de teatre)
(2, to travel) *bitllet, passatge *(e.g. bitllet d'avió)
(3, mulct for traffic offence) *multa *(e.g. multa de trànsit)
(4, help desk/tech support) Unsure, but I'd say *tiquet *is used, often with the English spelling _ticket_.
(5, 6, for raffles and lottery) *bitllet*, *cupó, val *(e.g. bitllet de rifa/loteria)

In Catalan, the word coming from English, *tiquet*, stressed on the last syllable /ti'kɛt/, is mostly used for those tickets which allow to be at a dinner, celebration, meeting..., or in *tiquet (de compra)* for sales slips, in order to distinguish it from the _*rebut de compra*_, 'purchase receipt' which comes with an invoice. But sometimes, either as an extension or because of English influence, can be seen used for the other meanings.


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## elroy

Penyafort said:


> mulct


I had no idea this was an English word!


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## raamez

Fingers and toes are the same in Arabic while snails and slugs are different. Scissors and trousers are both in singular in Arabic.
_isbe3_ اصبع = Finger/ toe
_halazoon_ حلزون = snail , _halazoon_ is an old Greek loanword and thus a cognate with helix in English
_bazaaq_ بزاق = slug from the verb _basaqa_ to spit
_miqas_ مقص = scissors from _qassa_ to cut
trousers are either سروال _sirwaal_ (loanword from Persian) or _bintaal/bantaloon _(loanword from French/Italian)


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## Włoskipolak 72

I don't know where to start ? 

Polish

Fingers and toes  = palce
Scissors and trousers = _nożyczki_ i spodnie are both in plural.
sanie (sledge) and skrzypce (violin) are plural too.

_nożyczki from nożyce (diminutive) = noga (leg)_

nóż = knife , from Proto -Slavic  (prasł. **nožь*)

spodnie = trousers , from  spód (bottom)


zegar = clock , from Sieger (ger.) perpendicular
zegarek = watch
budzik = alarm clock


bilet,  = ticket to get in somewhere , or to travel
karta wstępu = ticket to get in somewhere
mandat = for violating traffic lows
_bilet na loterię_ = a raffle ticket
_los na loterię 

koło = wheel
kierownica = steering wheel
wiosło sterowe = steering oar _


Baranina (mięso baranie) =  moutton (meat)
baran = ram , lamb
_jagnięcina = lamb (meat)
jagnię = lamb (animal)
wieprzowina = pork (meat)
wieprz = hog , (animal)_
świnia_ = swine _
cielęcina =veal (meat)
cielę = calf (animal)


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## ThomasK

Penyafort said:


> In English, “ticket” can mean:
> 
> (1) a ticket to get in somewhere (e.g. a movie ticket)
> (2) a ticket to travel somewhere (e.g. a train ticket)
> (3) a ticket you get for violating traffic laws (e.g. a speeding ticket)
> (4) a help desk / tech support ticket
> (5) a raffle ticket
> (6) a lottery ticket
> 
> I highly doubt there is a single other language that uses the same word for all six of these.   I’d be curious to know how many words other languages use.
> 
> Ironically, in Spain “ticket” means “receipt,” which is one of the (only ) things “ticket” does _not_ mean in English.


I suggest we treat this as a separate thread.This example would be more like homophones or homonyms or something the like, I think.  

The main thing is focussing on examples where "one reality" in a language gives rise to two different words/ name, due to those speakers not viewing that "one reality" as one... 

@Włoskipolak 72: 
- wheel words: perfect, I think

- not sure whether the *animal vs. animal meat* words fit in here --- they might, but not quite sure
- even almost sure that the _*ticket *_words do not fit in: the use of "ticket" is based on one meaning and then metonymical. i think the _fine _word does not fit in and I am not sure the others really seem to refer to one reality in English
- the clock words: doesn' the budzik refer to the alarm, not to the clock as such? We do not call it a clock for instance, but a _wekker_, a waker... Are they perceived as the same reality really? I am not so sure...

Anyone who is able to invent a trick that helps us to recognize the right words (one reality, one or two names?)?


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Are they perceived as the same reality really?


In Russian будильник (budíl'nik, lit. "waker") definitely is a subset of часы (chasý, i.e. clocks/watches in general).


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## ThomasK

How would you substantiate your view? Because waking up requires a clock? That is certainly true, but we never use the word in our Dutchterm... Is "subset" here part of semantics or of onomasiology? [I am just trying to see how I can pinpoint the essence of my own question so that I can distinguish between the perfect examples and the others. I might be dealing with fiction too, or convenient fictions too.


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> How would you substantiate your view?


Er... Because будильник is часы? 
Часы is basically any device the main purpose of which is to measure time, from a sundial (солнечные часы) to a watch (наручные часы). Будильник seems to qualify (it's just a clock which ALSO can do something else as well).


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## ThomasK

I was afraid my question would sound strange, but my question had to do with me wondering whether we are not talking about different things from some time to time. Like in the examples Wloskipolak gave. I think some do not fit into this series, and I am wondering about the alarm clock versus wekker, because I'd think the main function is the waking, and the clock is only the means to that end. But thanks for bearing with me!


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## Messquito

In Mandarin (and I suppose most dialects), fingers and toes use the same sound (zhi3 in Mandarin), but different characters:
手指(shou2zhi3) finger
腳趾(jiao2zhi3) toe

Others:
Rats and Mice → 老鼠
Crocodiles and Alligators → 鱷魚
Taste/flavor and odor/smell → 味道
Turn on/off and open/close → 開/關
Pots and pans → 鍋子
Web and net → 網
Hug/embrace and hold in arms → 抱
High and tall → 高
burp and hiccup → 打嗝

毛(on body except lower face or head) and 髮(on top of head) → hair
女王(female ruler) and 皇后(wife of the ruler) → Queen
直(no curve) and 正(not tilted) → straight


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## ThomasK

Extremely pleased to have a Mandarin speaker here again! Thanks!

Some extra questions: 
- if only the spelling is different, does that imply the change of meaning? I am not sure if we can use these terms, but is the word/... the same then, or the meaning? Can the second one only refer to toes?
- the second category: you use the same word/ ideogram (...) in all those cases? If that ideogram is used in some context, is it ambiguous then? 

How would you complete this sentence: "These words do have the same form in Mandarin, but as for the two meanings, ...."? Thanks a lot!


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## Messquito

指 also means "to point". It has 手(hand) as a radical.
趾 has 足(foot) as a radical.
They are both unambiguous, having only one meaning each as a noun.
I do think they have the same root, I'm only using that as an example to contrast against the English one.

They can be ambiguous but only when a distinction is desired. And most of them can be easily disambiguated as well.
However, most of the time, nobody cares if you are referring to a mouse or a rat (I believe a lot of English speakers mix them up too without caring). And even when a distinction is made, both words would usually be a derivation of the original word and hence would have the same root, versus the English example where both terms look totally different.

For your last question, my answer would be "if distinction is to be made between them, they can be worded differently to achieve so."


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