# Потешные (бойскауты)



## Xigua

Could someone please explain what this word means? I am reading about it in the context of a hippodrome in Kiev, prior to W.W.I

If I understand some of its history correctly, I believe that it evokes visible symbols of Byzantine power. I have also read something to do with its appearing on St Sophia's Cathedral, in Kiev.

I gratefully acknowledge and welcome your expertise. Thank you, and may you have a blessed Christmas.


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## horace.mik

Hi Xigua,
Actually, "potiechny" doesn't mean anything. Was it written with latin letters?


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## Maroseika

If you refer to Moscow, "potiechny" definetely stands for Потешный дворец.
But I cannot see what it has to do with Kiev.


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## Xigua

Maroseika,

I had actually been working on two texts simultaneously. The one about Moscow, at  http://archive.org/stream/lekremlinkremlde00luko/lekremlinkremlde00luko_djvu.txt (in poorly transcribed French) I translate as follows: 

*At Miloslavski's death, Tsar Alexis Mikhailovitch modified the disposition of the palace 'Potiechny', which still exists at present, but has undergone significant transformations. One of the most interesting details here is the balcony (erkher) of the second floor. 
*
But the other text, also in French, refers to people in pre- W.W. I visiting Kiev, and going 'to the hippodrome to see the "Potiechny".'
I understand that, in Moscow at least,  it means something like 'amusement' (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusement_Palace). 

So I cannot understand it either in the context of Kiev, and nothing more is given to clarify it.


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## wdata

*Xigua,
*with so small piece of context I could only imagine that* Потешный * was just a horse name, and could be translated roughly as* Funny.
*Basically I believe these two names are used in two different meanings of the word Потешный: both something which is made for fun (Потешный дворец), and which is funny itself (Потешный конь)


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## Maroseika

Xigua said:


> I had actually been working on two texts simultaneously. The one about Moscow, at  http://archive.org/stream/lekremlinkremlde00luko/lekremlinkremlde00luko_djvu.txt (in poorly transcribed French) I translate as follows: *...*
> But the other text, also in French, refers to people in pre- W.W. I visiting Kiev, and going 'to the hippodrome to see the "Potiechny".'
> So I cannot understand it either in the context of Kiev, and nothing more is given to clarify it.



Well, the text about Moscow is brilliant clear, but I think we need a wider context for the text about Kiev. If you cannot provide it literally, maybe you would like to explain what happenned before and after they visited the hippodrome, if only that had anything to do with this word. But if it is just a single word, it is hardly possible to get exact answer. 
However the guess of *wdata *is very plausible - Потешный is quite a common name for theracers.


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## Xigua

Maroseika and wdata,

Thank you for yet more insights about *Потешный - *I had never even thought that it might be a horse's name! The context is extremely sketchy. It only speaks of Tsar Nicholas II visiting Kiev in 1911, including the hippodrome and _les «Potiechny» _(in the original French). I knew that the hippodrome of Constantinople is represented in the art at St Sophia's (it commemorates St Princess Olga's visit there) ... but the text does not mention the cathedral at all in this particular context. So I think it must refer to a real hippodrome, and now I must further my research to see whether there was a famous horse named  *Потешный *at that time.

Thank you again, and - Gregorian or Julian calendar - I wish you a very blessed Christmas and New Year!


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## viesis

Here is what I found:

" Программа торжеств была расписана
очень плотно, и в 16 часов
высокопоставленные гости отбыли на
ипподром, где состоялся смотр *потешных
(русский вариант бойскаутов) *и скачки на
императорский приз. В 20 часов скачки
закончились, а в 21 час начался съезд в
городской театр на оперу "Сказка о царе
Салтане". Были приняты дополнительные
меры по обеспечению безопасности.
Столыпину в этот день вместо конного
экипажа был подан автомобиль, который,
не привлекая внимания, проехал к
боковому подъезду театра."

It's from the book "The Tsar's secret police" by Ruud and Stepanov. Chapter 9 gives a detailed account of assassination of Stolypin on September 1, 1911.

So according to Ruud and Stepanov, poteshny are Russian boy scouts.

You can read more about scouting in Russia here (in Russian): 
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Скаутское_движение


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## Xigua

viesis,

Thank you so much. You have no idea how grateful I am to you for your reply. It makes perfect sense for the context in which I am working.  I have the Ruud and Stepanov book, F_ontanka 16, _on p. 188 of which there is a reference to the Tsar's inspection of the boy scouts. (See also the materials at http://www.pinetreeweb.com/norsold1.htm if you like.)

Unfortunately, my Russian is not that good. Might I please ask you for an English translation of this sentence in your reply?

Программа торжеств была расписана
очень плотно, и в 16 часов
высокопоставленные гости отбыли на
ипподром, где состоялся смотр *потешных
(русский вариант бойскаутов) *и скачки на
императорский приз


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## viesis

Xigua said:


> Программа торжеств была расписана
> очень плотно, и в 16 часов
> высокопоставленные гости отбыли на
> ипподром, где состоялся смотр *потешных
> (русский вариант бойскаутов) *и скачки на
> императорский приз


I'm afraid that I might lose something in style, but here's my try:
"The festivity schedule was tight, so at 4 p.m. the high-ranking guests set off to the hippodrome, where inspection of poteshny (Russian version of boy scouts) and emperor's prize races took place".


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## learnerr

Honestly, I do not see any special "style" in the quote, just a clear and succinct (good) language. But this is only a side note.


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## Xigua

viesis and learnerr,

Thank you to you both. I just needed a straightforward translation, since my own Russian is not the best. When one is working in French, which includes Russian transliterated to French, and translating it all to English, one appreciates this kind of help.

A happy 2014 to all!


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## viesis

Xigua said:


> viesis and learnerr,
> 
> Thank you to you both. I just needed a straightforward translation, since my own Russian is not the best. When one is working in French, which includes Russian transliterated to French, and translating it all to English, one appreciates this kind of help.
> 
> A happy 2014 to all!



You are welcome! I'm glad that I could be of some help.
Happy 2014 to you too.


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## Ben Jamin

horace.mik said:


> Hi Xigua,
> Actually, "potiechny" doesn't mean anything. Was it written with latin letters?


Actually it does, for example:

Викисловарь:
Значение[править] 

_разг._ способный развлечь, посмешить; забавный ◆ Для этого значения не указан пример употребления. Вы можете оказать помощь проекту, добавив пример употребления из литературного произведения или повседневного общения. 
_устар._ служащий для потехи ◆ Для этого значения не указан пример употребления. Вы можете оказать помощь проекту, добавив пример употребления из литературного произведения или повседневного общения.
Also:
Советская историческая энциклопедия: "ПОТЕШНЫЕ"
воен. отряды, созданные для "потех" царевича Петра из детей и молодых людей (из дворовых, конюхов, спальников и добровольцев-дворян). В 1682 у Кремлевского дворца была создана особая площадка для воен. игр, к-рые в 1683 были перенесены в поле, а в 1685 - в с. Преображенское, где был построен воен. городок на р. Яузе. "П." (шли сведены в батальоны, а в 1687 в полки (Преображенский и Семеновский), ставшие основой рус. гвардии и явившиеся опорой Петра I во время дворцового переворота 1689.


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## learnerr

Ben Jamin said:


> Actually it does, for example:


Well, it does not, because it is written with the Latin letters.
That you can try to guess the word is a different matter. However, guess is not easy.
Thanks for your reference, it was useful.


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## Great Dane

Xigua said:


> viesis,
> 
> Thank you so much. You have no idea how grateful I am to you for your reply. It makes perfect sense for the context in which I am working.  I have the Ruud and Stepanov book, F_ontanka 16, _on p. 188 of which there is a reference to the Tsar's inspection of the boy scouts. (See also the materials at http://www.pinetreeweb.com/norsold1.htm if you like.)
> 
> Unfortunately, my Russian is not that good. Might I please ask you for an English translation of this sentence in your reply?
> 
> Программа торжеств была расписана
> очень плотно, и в 16 часов
> высокопоставленные гости отбыли на
> ипподром, где состоялся смотр *потешных
> (русский вариант бойскаутов) *и скачки на
> императорский приз



Good day, Xigua.
Потешный - is a very old word - means funny (adjective). We very rare use this word in common conversation.
But in this context it is a short form of "потешный полк" that means a military group of teenagers.

These groups were only twice in Russian history:

The Firstly it was потешный полк for young famous Russian imperator Peter I. And Peter I learned how  handle army from his childhood.

Secondly it was broad Russian movement since 1907 to 1917. After Russian-Japan War, when huge Russian fleet was totally terminated, a lot of Russian teachers and officers decided that schoolboys needed learn military subjects at school and especially on big summer vacation. From some points of view it may be a job with difficult children. It was very popular and even first persons of the empire patronized this military initiative.


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## learnerr

Great Dane said:


> Good day, Xigua.
> Потешный - is a very old word - means funny (adjective). We very rare use this word in common conversation.


It is as old as any other native word.


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## Great Dane

learnerr said:


> It is as old as any other native word.



Yes, it is a good word and I suppose that using this word is the sign of high culture but I really can't remember when I had heard this word in common conversation...


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## rusita preciosa

Great Dane said:


> Потешный - is a very old word - means funny (adjective).


I have a suspicion that in Peter the Great's times потешный meant "recreational / make-believe / toy / amusement" rather than "funny", so his потешный полк was a toy/amusement regiment, not a "funny regiment".


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## learnerr

Great Dane said:


> Yes, it is a good word and I suppose that using this word is the sign of high culture but I really can't remember when I had heard this word in common conversation...


Not common, agree, but calling it "old". 
I disagree, though, that it is a sign of anything; it is just a word that sometimes gets used, just like many other citizens of the wordbook. Other words are usually preferred, of course.
 Anyway, the modern meaning of the word (how the word can be old if it has a modern meaning?!) is, I agree with Rusita and you, close to _funny_, such that is fun and amusing to watch, unlike the old meaning which is no more used, and which looks to be close to "made for fun & amusement". That meaning has to do with culture etc, but it simply would not be understood if used by someone nowadays.


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## Great Dane

rusita preciosa said:


> I have a suspicion that in Peter the Great's times потешный meant "recreational / make-believe / toy / amusement" rather than "funny", so his потешный полк was a toy/amusement regiment, not a "funny regiment".



Amusement regiment is a good translation


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