# Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?



## Alxmrphi

*Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?

*and does this means "Are you sorry you couldn't come to Rome?"
Howcome it isn't "Le dispiace che non poteva venire a Roma?" 

Just looks weird to me, as nearly everything does.


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## Paulfromitaly

Alex_Murphy said:


> *Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?
> 
> *and does this means "Are you sorry you couldn't come to Rome?"
> How come it isn't "Le dispiace che non poteva venire a Roma?"  *(wrong preposition, wrong verb tense).*
> 
> Just looks weird to me, as nearly everything does.


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## Vikorr

Is the literal interpretation :

It displeases you to be unable (in the past tense) to come to Rome ?

Still very much a beginner myself, so can't really contribute any more than that - if I'm even correct - I could have it all wrong myself


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## Paulfromitaly

Vikorr said:


> Is the literal interpretation :
> 
> It displeases you to be unable (in the past tense) to come to Rome ?
> 
> Still very much a beginner myself, so can't really contribute any more than that - if I'm even correct - I could have it all wrong myself



Maybe:

Do you regret not to have been able to come to Rome?


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## raffaella

Paulfromitaly said:


> Maybe:
> 
> Do you regret not having been able to come to Rome?


 
I hope you don't mind!

Raffaella


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## Alxmrphi

"to have" also sounds makes sense here.

I thought "Are you sorry you couldn't" would need to have "that" in the Italian part.. "Are you sorry that you couldn't" and needs "che"

Is there a different way to say the Italian part (one that's more closer to what I would attempt) or is the "di non essere potuto" the only way that can be used in this sentence?


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## raffaella

Alex_Murphy said:


> "to have" also sounds makes sense here.


 
My apologies to Paul, then. Can you please explain the difference? "Not to have been able to..." sounds heavy to me, but I am ready to learn!

Raffaella


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## Paulfromitaly

Le dispiace il fatto che non lei non abbia avuto la possibilità di venire a Roma? (much more formal though).


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## raffaella

Alex_Murphy said:


> I thought "Are you sorry you couldn't" would need to have "that" in the Italian part.. "Are you sorry that you couldn't" and needs "che"


 
You need "che" if you use the subjunctive (ex. "Le dispiace che Elena non sia venuta con lei?"), but in this case you need the infinitive, so no that/che.

The proposition "di" can be omitted though:

- Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?
- Le dispiace non essere potuto venire a Roma? (That's what I would personally say, although both sentences are correct).

Raffaella


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## Nicholas the Italian

In English you say something like:
"I'm sorry (that) you couldn't come"
"I'm sorry (that) I couldn't come"

In italiano, quando i due soggetti sono diversi:
"Mi dispiace che tu non sia potuto venire"
Ma se i soggetti sono uguali:
"Mi dispiace che io non sia potuto venire" è pesante, diventa "Mi dispiace *di* non essere potuto venire"

"Credo *che sia* intelligente" (I'm talking about you/him/her)
"Credo *di essere* intelligente" (I'm talking about myself)

As usual, I'm not a grammar expert so will not give general rules, but that's a hint.


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## Alxmrphi

I think I see, it's something that requires the subjunctive if the two persons are different..

like Pensare and Credere?

Penso che tu sia.....
but
Penso di essere (about me, the same subject)

I didn't realise dispiacere took the subjunctive and therefore followed the same rules, I was expecting to see something like how it would be written if the subjects were different.

Thanks all.


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## giacinta

In italiano, quando i due soggetti sono diversi:
"Mi dispiace che tu non sia potuto venire"
Ma se i soggetti sono uguali:
"Mi dispiace che io non sia potuto venire" è pesante, diventa "Mi dispiace di non essere potuto venire.

Now I am confused!    I know this rule about same subjects--however, with "piacere" and "dispiacere" isn't the subject the unspoken or silent "it"?? 

_It displeases me_ that I wasn't able to come.  In which case, wouldn't you have to use the subjunctive?  "Mi dispiace che non sia potuto venire".?

Giacinta


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## Alxmrphi

Yeah but here it looks like it agrees with the direct object pronoun, the person who the action of being displeased/sorry is happening to.


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## giacinta

Alex_Murphy said:


> Yeah but here it looks like it agrees with the direct object pronoun, the person who the action of being displeased/sorry is happening to.


 

No, sorry Alex. Piacere always takes the _indirect object._ 

He likes it = gli piace.
And in the example you gave "Le dispiace"--the indirect object has been used. 


In any case, the rule is about subjects not objects

Giacinta


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## Alxmrphi

Well the principle remains, if the "persons" reflected by the indirect object are the same then the same rules as credere and pensare are used, regarding the subjunctive.


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## SweetSoulSister

Hi Alex,
The thing about "piacere" is that it is different than "to like"
I like chocolate. (I am the subject)
Mi piace la cioccolata. (Chocolate is the subject, not me. If I was the subject, it would be Io piaccio la cioccolata which is "chocolate likes me" in English  )
The same is true for "dispiace"
Mi dispiace (I am not the subject here) che io (here I am the subject) non sia potuto venire
I hope that helps.


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## Nicholas the Italian

Il soggetto logico sono comunque io.


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## Alxmrphi

Yes yes, I know all that, I was trying to give an explanation to giancinta about how it works in piacere/dispiacere because of the differences you explained SSS. That because it's different, it's not the "subjects" that have to be the same (because the subject is "it", the thing pleasing to you) - but if indirect object pronoun matches the subject of the verb, then it behaves like credere/pensare:

Credo di essere giusto = I think I am right
Credo che tu sia giusto = I think you are right

Ti dispiace di non aver il tempo a provarlo = Are you sorry you didn't have the time to try it

Ti dispiace che lei non abbia il tempo di provarlo = Are you sorry she didn't have time to try it

First example, subjects matched
but in the case of dispiacere in the 3rd example, it's the indirect object and subject of the second verb that have to match (as explained)

**************

This is a correct explanation, right? (at least if I haven't phrased it well, my examples are correct, aren't they?)


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## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> This is a correct explanation, right? (at least if I haven't phrased it well, my examples are correct, aren't they?)


Solo una nota.
In inglese si dice "you are right/wrong".
In italiano, un esercizio, una supposizione ecc. possono "essere giusti o sbagliati"; una persona "ha ragione"/"è nel giusto" o "ha torto"/"è nel torto"/"sbaglia".


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## Alxmrphi

so essere giusto for things, nel giusto for people, gotcha, thanks!


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## shamblesuk

Mi pare che tu sia nel giusto, Alex.

Buon Capodanno

Lee



Alex_Murphy said:


> so essere giusto for things, nel giusto for people, gotcha, thanks!


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## giacinta

Alex Murphy wrote above

"Ti dispiace di non aver il tempo a provarlo = Are you sorry you didn't have the time to try it

Ti dispiace che lei non abbia il tempo di provarlo = Are you sorry she didn't have time to try it

First example, subjects matched
but in the case of dispiacere in the 3rd example, it's the indirect object and subject of the second verb that have to match (as explained)

**************

This is a correct explanation, right? (at least if I haven't phrased it well, my examples are correct, aren't they?)[/QUOTE]""


Nicholas the Italian has endorsed this, but, as he said himself, he is not a grammar expert--no offence Nic!  I would welcome other endorsements or explanations and a response from a native to my previous post.
Giacinta


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## DAH

PaulfromItaly said:
			
		

> Do you regret not to have been able to come to Rome?





Alex_Murphy said:


> *Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?*


 
To her/ To You is it regretful/displeasing not being able to come to Rome?

Does she regret not being able to come to Rome? 
Is she sorry about not being able to come to Rome? 

Do you regret not being able to come to Rome?
Are you sorry about not being able to come to Rome? 

Che ne pensate?


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## Nicholas the Italian

giacinta said:


> Alex Murphy wrote above
> "Ti dispiace di non aver il tempo di provarlo? = Are you sorry you don't have the time to try it?
> Ti dispiace che lei non abbia il tempo di provarlo? = Are you sorry she doesn't have time to try it?
> ...
> Nicholas the Italian has endorsed this, but, as he said himself, he is not a grammar expert--no offence Nic! I would welcome other endorsements or explanations and a response from a native to my previous post.
> Giacinta


No offence 
The sentences above *are* correct (exept for the fact they were present in Italian and past in English).
If you ask me why "di + infinito" is used in place of "che + congiuntivo" in the first sentence, I'd say that's because the *logical* subjects are matching, so we use the implicit construction instead of the explicit one, but I can't give you a formal explanation, so yes, I'd like someone else's opinion too.



> Che ne pensate?


Non ho ben capito la domanda... sì, si possono tradurre tutte con "Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?".


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## DAH

Nicholas the Italian said:


> The sentences above *are* correct (except for the fact they were present in Italian and past in English). Non ho ben capito la domanda... sì, si possono tradurre tutte con "Le dispiace di non essere potuto venire a Roma?"


Yes, you understood me. I was also trying to point out that the sentence should be translated in the present tense in English as well, hence the reason for quoting PaulfromItaly's past tense translation.



			
				Nicholas the Italian said:
			
		

> If you ask me why "di + infinito" is used in place of "che + congiuntivo" in the first sentence, I'd say that's because the *logical* subjects are matching, so we use the implicit construction instead of the explicit one, but I can't give you a formal explanation, so yes, I'd like someone else's opinion too.


The rules of grammar for the subjunctive specific to Alex's ". . . could not come to Rome." sentence:
". . . if, however, it is a realized fact that the action has taken place [couldn't come to Rome] or definitely will take place, the indicative is used." And,"when the subject of the dependent clause is the same as that of the main clause, the infinitive is used." Italian Grammar, 2nd Edition, J. Germano, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill


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## giacinta

DAH said:


> The rules of grammar for the subjunctive specific to Alex's ". . . could not come to Rome." sentence:
> ". . . if, however, it is a realized fact that the action has taken place [couldn't come to Rome] or definitely will take place, the indicative is used." And,"when the subject of the dependent clause is the same as that of the main clause, the infinitive is used." Italian Grammar, 2nd Edition, J. German, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill


 

Thank you so much DAH for explaining it with a rule.  I suppose the use of the subjunctive is not wrong but is a bit pesante.  Adesso e' tutto chiaro.

Giacinta


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## Alxmrphi

It didn't even register that I put it in the past, woops.


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## Nicholas the Italian

DAH said:


> ". . . if, however, it is a realized fact that the action has taken place [couldn't come to Rome] or definitely will take place, the indicative is used." And,"when the subject of the dependent clause is the same as that of the main clause, the infinitive is used." Italian Grammar, 2nd Edition, J. German, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill


"Mi dispiace che tu non venga/sia venuto a Roma"... I'd personally always use this one
"Mi dispiace che non verrai/vieni/sei venuto a Roma"... this is correct too (probably), but it sounds a little weird to me
"Sono contento che tu venga/sia venuto a Roma" ok
"Sono contento che verrai/vieni/sei venuto a Roma" ok too, and I feel them as interchangeable
Ah... it seems that not always books and people agree... books and me, at least!


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## giacinta

". . . if, however, it is a realized fact that the action has taken place [couldn't come to Rome] or definitely will take place, the indicative is used." And,"when the subject of the dependent clause is the same as that of the main clause, the infinitive is used." Italian Grammar, 2nd Edition, J. German, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill [/quote]


Just to check I have it right---"Mi piace poter venire stasera" would be correct as it definitely will take place?
Giacinta


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## Nicholas the Italian

giacinta said:


> Just to check I have it right---"Mi piace poter venire stasera" would be correct as it definitely will take place?
> Giacinta


*Sono contento/a di* poter venire stasera.

Mi piace il gelato (in generale)
Mi piace guardare la TV (in generale)
Sono contento di guardare la TV stasera (caso specifico)
Mi piaci quando mi baci (in generale)
Sono contento che adesso mi baci (caso specifico)


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## DAH

giacinta said:


> Just to check I have it right---"Mi piace poter venire stasera" would be correct as it definitely will take place?
> Giacinta


Yes!


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