# You want watching (want + gerund)



## Lucretia

Hello!
Could anybody explain what the following phrase mean? I found it in a textbook. Sorry, no context.
_ It's as I suspected, you want watching; your stomach wants educating._
Thank you.


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## rsweet

In this context you can substitute "need" for "want." "You need to be watched."


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## JamesM

Yes, "need".. or "lacks", sometimes, I believe.


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## Kelly B

I agree. For the long, drawn out discussion of various uses of "want" please see here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=195913


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## Lucretia

Thanks,
The problem is not in *want; *I do not understand *all* the sentence. How can one educate his stomach??


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## roxcyn

I would say it like that:

The context could be a son watching his mom cook and is drooling.  She tells her son:

_ It's as I suspected, you were watching; your stomach wants educating._

His stomach needs some training on how to eat right, and how to cook what he needs to eat.  I admit it sounds funny (I laughed at that part).


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## Lucretia

Sorry, still in the dark.


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## panjandrum

I think the meaning is more or less as roxcyn said.
"Your stomach" represents "You" or perhaps "Your appetite."
Synecdoche, I believe.


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## Brioche

Lucretia said:


> Hello!
> Could anybody explain what the following phrase mean? I found it in a textbook. Sorry, no context.
> _It's as I suspected, you want watching; your stomach wants educating._
> Thank you.


 

_Wants_ in situations like these means _needs to be_
_Your stomach needs to be educated._

I've never heard of an "educated" stomach, but people do talk about an "educated" palate.

If you have an _educated palate,_ it means that you have learnt to appreciate the tastes and textures of quality food.

I suppose a person with an "educated" stomach would be careful to put a balanced diet of quality food in it.


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## Lucretia

Thanks,
Judging by your posts, the sentence is really weird; they shouldn't have put it in the exercise. I'd rather ignore it, then.


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## Brian P

Lucretia said:


> Hello!
> Could anybody explain what the following phrase mean? I found it in a textbook. Sorry, no context.
> _It's as I suspected, you want watching; your stomach wants educating._
> Thank you.


 
"Educating" is used figuratively here.  Maybe "training" would be a better word.  I interpret the phrase to mean that you have bad nutritional habits which need to be corrected.  If you want to send me a PM I will try to explain it in Russian.

Brian


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## fangoso

I had to revive this old thread because I just can't understand why you would use "educating" intead of "education". Any ideas?


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## se16teddy

The form _[person] want(s) [gerund]_ is an idiom.
1) The word _want _has a meaning and associations when used with the gerund that it does not have in other contexts: _deserve, usually because of delinquency or inadequacy_
2) The idiom has a very informal, often aggressive feel. _You want shooting._

I am not sure what _you want education _means. I am not sure it means anything. But it certainly does not mean _you want educating. _


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## SevenDays

_Educating _(in my view) makes the whole idea more _active_; it's like seeing the idea _in progress_ (-ing words, after all, appears in progressive constructions:_ I am educating_). By contrast, to me, "education" comes across as more passive.
_It's as i suspected, you want watching; your stomach wants educating _is a metaphor. "Stomach" suggests "hunger" (a need for something). I suppose other words could be used as well: _you want watching; your soul wants educating._


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## fangoso

se16teddy said:


> The form _[person] want(s) [gerund] _has meanings and connotations of its own.
> 1) The word _want _has a meaning or association when used with the gerund that it does not have in other contexts: _deserve, usually because of delinquency or inadequacy_
> 2) The idiom has a very informal, possibly even aggressive feel. _You want shooting._
> 
> I am not sure what _you want education _means. I am not sure it means anything. But it certainly does not mean _you want educating. _



Education
From the Cambridge Dictionary:

1º to teach someone at a school or college

"She was educated at the Perse School"

2º to give people information about something

"Children must be educated about the dangers of smoking".


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## Cagey

I don't think se16teddy meant that he didn't understand what 'education' means.  I think that he meant that the construction 'you want education' didn't make sense to him.

For my part, I would probably interpret 'you want education' as an odd way to say 'you desire education'. This is not what 'you want educating' means -- as others have explained above.


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## fangoso

Cagey said:


> I don't think se16teddy mean that he didn't understand what 'education' means.  I think that he meant that the construction 'you want education' didn't make sense to him.
> 
> For my part, I would probably interpret 'you want education' as an odd way to say 'you desire education. This is not what 'you want educating' means -- as others have explained above.


I don't really get it. I mean, why does " you want educating" mean that you need it while "you want education" means that you desire it?


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## panjandrum

fangoso said:


> I don't really get it. I mean, why does " you want educating" mean that you need it while "you want education" means that you desire it?


I think it's simply because the structure 'x wants gerund' invokes the meaning _wants = is in need of_, whereas 'x wants normal noun' invokes the meaning _wants = desires_.


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## Cagey

It uses this meaning of want:

5. to require or need:
_The house wants painting.
_​I think of this as a dated or colloquial use of 'want', but our Random House dictionaries do not mark it in any way.   Our _Collins Concise English Dictionary_, marks it as: 'chiefly Brit':
6. to have need of or require (doing or being something): _your shoes want cleaning
_​_Cross-posted. _


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## london calling

Because English doesn't work the same way as Spanish, that's why .


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## fangoso

The Cambridge Dictionary says:

want verb [T]

uk to need something:

"Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt?
[+ -ing verb ] The wine is in the fridge - it just wants cooling for a couple of minutes.
If you ask me that child wants a good slap!"

In the first example you can see they use "soup" which is a noun.


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## fangoso

london calling said:


> Because English doesn't work the same way as Spanish, that's why .


I never said that. I'm speaking solely based on english grammar.


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## london calling

What I meant was is that in other languages such as yours (and Italian, for example) you can almost always use a noun or a verb. That doesn't always happen in English. In the examples above 'wants educating' and 'wants education' carry different meanings.


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## fangoso

Then the Cambridge Dictionary is wrong when it shows "Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt?". Isn't?


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## london calling

No, it isn't wrong. It's perfectly natural in BE. Things are not as cut and dried in English as everyone would like them to be.


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## fangoso

Ok, so if it is correct to say "Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt?" (salt being a noun) then why is incorrect to say "your stomach wants education" (education being a noun)?


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## fangoso

Also, in the sentence  "If you ask me that child wants a good slap!" you can notice that "a good slap" is the noun, and it's very unlikely that someone actually desires a slap. In the same way, someone might need education without actually wishing for it, so one could say "you want education" rather than "you want educating". Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Cagey

Please don't feel that you are obligated to accept the advice you get here.  Native speakers have explained what they think about the use of education in this particular sentence, and how they would understand it.  You are welcome to ignore them and use whatever construction you wish. There does not seem to be much point in going over the same issue again.

*Added*: I shouldn't ignore Seven Days, who offered another way to think about this.


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## fangoso

Well I just think that if someone is willing to answer a very specific question like the one I wrote then that person should be able to explain the reasoning behind his/her answer, I think it is about being intelectually honest but nevermind.


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## Kelly B

fangoso said:


> I never said that. I'm speaking solely based on english grammar.


The grammar is acceptable, but its structure affects its meaning, and it sounds wrong because there is a more idiomatic way to say it. If you choose not to use the idiomatic version, it sounds as though you are choosing to express a different meaning, so it sounds weird. That's true of many idiomatic expressions - you can't just toss in a different word thinking it will still sound ok because it means the same thing. It's a matter of custom, not logic.


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## se16teddy

fangoso said:


> I think it is about being intellectually honest but never mind.


I don't think the forum rules require contributors to be intellectually honest.

As far as I am aware, no gerund ever means exactly the same thing as any noun cognate with the verb.


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## Andygc

Let's not go into "intellectual honesty". That's a red herring. 

It's simply, as Kelly B says, a matter of idiom. There's no reasoning to explain. But I'll try ....

A stomach can't want education because it can't go to school. The stomach's owner can go to school and can want education, but that would not include an introduction to an appreciation of curry, for example. It would involve such things as reading, writing and arithmetic.


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## fangoso

*


Andygc said:



			Let's not go into "intellectual honesty". That's a red herring.

It's simply, as Kelly B says, a matter of idiom. There's no reasoning to explain. But I'll try ....

A stomach can't want education because it can't go to school. The stomach's owner can go to school and can want education, but that would not include an introduction to an appreciation of curry, for example. It would involve such things as reading, writing and arithmetic.
		
Click to expand...



Educate, *according to the Cambridge Dictionary:

"to teach someone, *especially using the formal system of school, college, or university*"

*Education,* according to the Cambridge Dictionary:

"the process of teaching or learning, especially in a school or college, or the knowledge that you get from this"

Base on that concept, if you were to say "educating" why wouldn't that imply your stomach going to school?


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## Andygc

As I said: it is idiomatic usage.

His stomach wants educating = He needs to be educated about things to eat.

He wants educating = He needs to be taught about something relevant to the current circumstances. For example, somebody pushes past rudely - "Huh, he wants educating".

He wants education = He lacks education - he knows nothing of literature, or history, or science (for example).

And as I said - a stomach can't go to school. It doesn't have an independent existence.


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## panjandrum

fangoso is looking for logic in the usage of English.  Sometimes there is logic in the way English is used.  Sometimes there is not.
When all of the native speakers advise against what may appear to be logical, then even if they cannot explain their advice, it is best to accept that this is one of the many instances where apparent logic does not apply.


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## Kelly B

It may seem that the issue is with the meanings of education/educating, but *that is* *not the problem*. The problem is that there are multiple meanings for _*want*. _It can mean _to desire_, or it can mean _to lack and therefore to need, _and as usual, the context tells you which meaning is the right one. *Educating/education is the context that defines want. *If you choose the wrong form of the direct object in your context sentence, your reader will misunderstand you.

If the direct object is education, then _to want_ means to desire.
If the direct object is educating, then _to want_ means to lack and therefore to need.

The latter is what the sentence in Post #1 is intended to mean, so that's how it should be expressed. If your goal is to be clearly understood or to sound like a native English speaker, you should choose the version that sounds idiomatic.


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## PaulQ

fangoso said:


> Base on that concept, if you were to say "educating" why wouldn't that imply your stomach going to school?


Your concept is flawed.

The point here is that language (Spanish as well) can be used figuratively and also contains many "figures of speech"; these are a legitimate part of the language.

See Panjandrum at #8.


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## fangoso

Ok guys. Thank you for your inputs.


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## Andygc

Kelly B said:


> If the direct object is education, then _to want_ means to desire.


Unfortunately that is not true. As I mentioned above "He wants education" can mean "He lacks education". But of course I agree that it can also mean "He desires education". The meaning depends on the surrounding context, not on the choice of the word "education". I accept that the use of "want" in this way may not be universal.


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## Ivan_I

I think *fangoso *asked a lot of reasonable questions. Sometimes natives find non-natives' questioning to be a challenge and a manifestation of mistrust. I think it's not exactly right. Non-natives just want a deeper explanation))) 

Back to the chase of the thread. 
I see that this construction is approved of by natives.

*subject+want+gerund*
Kelly says


Kelly B said:


> If the direct object is _*education*_, then _to want_ means to *desire*.
> If the direct object is *educating*, then _to want_ means to _*lack *_and therefore to need.


However, I have noticed that this sentence went unnoticed by the natives.

*Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt? *(I suppose that the soup *lacks *a bit of salt.) 
It means that:
subject+want+a noun* MAY MEAN *to _*lack *_and therefore to need

I am just saying it to underline that the matter is more difficult than it seems.


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## london calling

Ivan_I said:


> *Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt? *(I suppose that the soup *lacks *a bit of salt.*Yes, it needs salt. *)
> It means that:
> subject+want+a noun* MAY MEAN *to _*lack *_and therefore to need
> 
> I am just saying it to underline that the matter is more difficult than it seems.


Yes, as was clearly pointed out by Andy, who said:



Andygc said:


> Unfortunately that is not true. *As I mentioned above "He wants education" can mean "He lacks education". But of course I agree that it can also mean "He desires education"*. The meaning depends on the surrounding context, not on the choice of the word "education". I accept that the use of "want" in this way may not be universal.


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## se16teddy

Ivan_I said:


> *Do you think this soup wants a bit of salt? *(I suppose that the soup *lacks *a bit of salt.)


Unless you are personifying the soup, this use of _want_ is very literary or even archaic, and cannot really occur in the same sentence as _you want watching_, which is very informal.


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## Andygc

I couldn't disagree more. This use of "want" is perfectly normal to some BE speakers, including me.


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## london calling

Andygc said:


> I couldn't disagree more. This use of "want" is perfectly normal to some BE speakers, including me.


To me as well. It's everyday English as far as I'm concerned. It had never occurred to me that I might be personifying soup.


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