# ¿Cómo paso a pasiva esta oración?



## pagace

como puedo poner esta oracion en pasiva?

who invented tv?
 yo he pensado en decir 
by whom was tv invented. estaria bien asi?


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## Travelman

By whom tv was invented


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## Eugin

pagace said:


> como puedo poner esta oracion en pasiva?
> 
> who invented tv?
> yo he pensado en decir
> by whom was tv invented. estaria bien asi?


Hola pagace! ¡Bienvenid@ al foro!!!

Creo que estás en lo cierto: "*By whom was tv invented*?"

Por favor, no olvides usar los signos de puntuación correctos y las letras en mayúscula al iniciar cada oración.
Recuerda que muchas personas usan este foro para aprender inglés/ español.

Saludos


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## Fernita

pagace said:


> como puedo poner esta oracion en pasiva?
> 
> who invented tv?
> yo he pensado en decir
> By whom was tv invented?  estaria bien asi?


Anyway, I´d say:

*Who was TV invented by?*

Hope it helps.


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## araceli

Nota de la moderadora:
Esta consulta fue trasladada al foro de Gramática.


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## Maruja14

Eugin said:


> Hola pagace! ¡Bienvenid@ al foro!!!
> 
> Creo que estás en lo cierto: "*By whom was tv invented*?"
> 
> Por favor, no olvides usar los signos de puntuación correctos y las letras en mayúscula al iniciar cada oración.
> Recuerda que muchas personas usan este foro para aprender inglés/ español.
> 
> Saludos


 
Me uno a la bienvenida.

También son interesantes los signos de apertura de interrogaciones y exclamaciones:

¿Cómo puedo poner esta oración en pasiva?


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## LionFire

Who was TV invented by? is also right,no?
Almost I´d say that.
Althought somebody said it before,I´m not sure and if a native confirm that I´ll feel more quiet.

Thanks.
Regards!!!


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## calyppso

Hola.

Primero necesito pedir que Uds. me disculpen de mi falta de acentos; estoy usando otra computadora y no se ponerlos con esta maquina.

La regla en ingles escrito o ingles formal es que hay que evitar terminar una oracion con una preposicion. 

"Who was the TV invented by?" es dicho por muchisimos hablantes, pero no es correcto en ingles formal. Lo correcto seria:

"By whom was the TV invented?"


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## geostan

calyppso said:


> Hola.
> 
> Primero necesito pedir que Uds. me disculpen de mi falta de acentos; estoy usando otra computadora y no se ponerlos con esta maquina.
> 
> La regla en ingles escrito o ingles formal es que hay que evitar terminar una oracion con una preposicion.
> 
> "Who was the TV invented by?" es dicho por muchisimos hablantes, pero no es correcto en ingles formal. Lo correcto seria:
> 
> "By whom was the TV invented?"



True, but not with the definite article!


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## Porteño

Hi! geostan, while you may be right about the formal structure, I doubt if any Brit ever uses it, *'Who was TV invented by?*' sounds much more normal, to me at least.


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## geostan

Porteño said:


> Hi! geostan, while you may be right about the formal structure, I doubt if any Brit ever uses it, *'Who was TV invented by?*' sounds much more normal, to me at least.



That was not my criticism. The examples had THE TV. No one would say THE in this sentence.


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## calyppso

geostan said:


> That was not my criticism. The examples had THE TV. No one would say THE in this sentence.


 
Actually, I disagree. While someone speaking very casually/quickly might say, 

"Who invented TV?" 

No one would say, for instance, "Who invented oven?" or "Who invented light blub?"

I think that "Who invented THE oven" and "Who invented THE light bulb" would sound much better. 

Now, if we're talking about pure grammatical accuracy, in which case we would NOT end the question "Who was (the) TV invented by?" with a preposition, we would have:

"By whom was TV invented?" 

This is a personal opinion, but I think this sounds just as good as 

"By whom was the TV invented."


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## geostan

calyppso said:


> Actually, I disagree. While someone speaking very casually/quickly might say,
> 
> "Who invented TV?"
> 
> No one would say, for instance, "Who invented oven?" or "Who invented light blub?"
> 
> I think that "Who invented THE oven" and "Who invented THE light bulb" would sound much better.
> 
> Now, if we're talking about pure grammatical accuracy, in which case we would NOT end the question "Who was (the) TV invented by?" with a preposition, we would have:
> 
> "By whom was TV invented?"
> 
> This is a personal opinion, but I think this sounds just as good as
> 
> "By whom was the TV invented."



"Who invented THE oven" and "Who invented THE light bulb"  Correct
"Who invented the TV? Not correct.

I think it has to do with the concept vs. the object.

While I would say, "Who invented the TV set?" I would not say "Who invented the TV?"

As for your other comments, they were made earlier in the post.


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## Porteño

Hi there geostan! I think you're wallowing in the distant past when you say that the question should not end with a preposition in strictly grammatical terms. Winston Churchill once made a famous referemce to the fact that someone, I think it was GBS, had said that a sentence should not end with a preposition, something which I believe died out with the dodo.


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## geostan

Porteño said:


> Hi there geostan! I think you're wallowing in the distant past when you say that the question should not end with a preposition in strictly grammatical terms. Winston Churchill once made a famous referemce to the fact that someone, I think it was GBS, had said that a sentence should not end with a preposition, something which I believe died out with the dodo.



It was GBS, who said: "That is something up with which I will not put." Jokingly, of course.

I do not as a rule wallow, in the past, present or future.  And if you'll look at my observation again, you'll note that my criticism had to do with the use of the article, not with the location of the preposition.


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## mariente

pagace said:


> como puedo poner esta oracion en pasiva?
> 
> who invented tv?
> yo he pensado en decir
> by whom was tv invented. estaria bien asi?


by whom was the tv invented?

Creo que hay que poner el the ya que nos referimos a la tv como elemento unico, como algo demasiado especifico
en active voice sería who invented the tv no tv solo


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## Porteño

My apologies geostan, I misread the author. My remarks should have been directed at calyppso (Thread #12). Anyway, many thanks for coming up with the phrase I was thinking of which I was sure had been uttered by Churchill in criticism of GBS. Obviously I ws wrong. I fully concur with you on the question of whether or not one should use the definite article in this coontext. Why this should be so is not clear but, like many other things in the usage of the English language, that's the way it is!


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## geostan

Porteño said:


> My apologies geostan, I misread the author. My remarks should have been directed at calyppso (Thread #12). Anyway, many thanks for coming up with the phrase I was thinking of which I was sure had been uttered by Churchill in criticism of GBS. Obviously I ws wrong. I fully concur with you on the question of whether or not one should use the definite article in this coontext. Why this should be so is not clear but, like many other things in the usage of the English language, that's the way it is!



Actually, the phrase is usually attributed to Churchill, but a quick check on the Internet seems to suggest it might be apocryphal. However, that's not the point; the example is.

Cheers!


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## geostan

mariente said:


> by whom was the tv invented?
> 
> Creo que hay que poner el the ya que nos referimos a la tv como elemento unico, como algo demasiado especifico
> en active voice sería who invented the tv no tv solo



 Lo siento, pero no vale su razonamiento.  Hay muchísimas cosas que son únicas, como la electricidad, el fuego, el autómovil, el avión. Las dos primeras no llevarían artículo, las dos últimas, sí, por motivos ya enunciados. Para el concepto - sin artículo, para el objeto concreto - con artículo.

Electricity is a modern necessity, NOT The electricity.
Fire was discovered by ancient man, NOT The fire.
The car was invented by Fulano, NOT Car
The plane was popularized by the Wright Brothers, NOT Plane

Espero que eso le convenza.


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## crysler

pagace said:


> como puedo poner esta oracion en pasiva?
> 
> who invented tv?
> yo he pensado en decir
> by whom was tv invented. estaria bien asi?


 
HEY MAN IT'S VERY EASY 

THE ANSWER IS: WHO WAS THE TV INVENTED BY


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## mariente

geostan said:


> Lo siento, pero no vale su razonamiento.  Hay muchísimas cosas que son únicas, como la electricidad, el fuego, el autómovil, el avión. Las dos primeras no llevarían artículo, las dos últimas, sí, por motivos ya enunciados. Para el concepto - sin artículo, para el objeto concreto - con artículo.
> 
> Electricity is a modern necessity, NOT The electricity.
> Fire was discovered by ancient man, NOT The fire.
> The car was invented by Fulano, NOT Car
> The plane was popularized by the Wright Brothers, NOT Plane
> 
> Espero que eso le convenza.


Para mí en el caso de de tv en este caso va el the por lo menos en voz activa. No me parece correcto decir: who invented tv


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## geostan

mariente said:


> Para mí en el caso de de tv en este caso va el the por lo menos en voz activa. No me parece correcto decir: who invented tv



"No me parece correcto decir: who invented tv"

Pero, lo es.


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## Porteño

Hi! crysler and welcome!
Perhaps you should read all the threads before you jump in the deep end.


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## mariente

geostan said:


> "No me parece correcto decir: who invented tv"
> 
> Pero, lo es.


pero me sigue sonando raro


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## calyppso

geostan said:


> "Who invented THE oven" and "Who invented THE light bulb"  Correct
> "Who invented the TV? Not correct.
> 
> I think it has to do with the concept vs. the object.
> 
> While I would say, "Who invented the TV set?" I would not say "Who invented the TV?"
> 
> As for your other comments, they were made earlier in the post.



I believe you are wrong.

TV is NOT a concept. It is a thing and a medium. I think you are confusing the function of TV with that of the term "media." "Media" in itself may have some qualities of being a construct or general notion/idea, thus it could be classified as a "concept." "TV," however, does stand for television, and the verb "invent" further implies its quality as an *object* rather than a _concept_. Concepts are intangible things that people cannot invent; usually abstract terms like happiness, sorrow, euphoria, etc. or names for processes are concepts. No one has "invented" happiness. With, say, political processes that a specific person has designed or executed, however, the line between "construct/concept" and "thing" becomes blurry. 

With objects, our language clearly has a history of applying definite articles.

While I, like you, would probably say "Who invented TV?" without all this meticulous analysis, I have certainly read and seen variations on this question that include the definite article, "THE TV," as well as with other objects of media such as the radio, telephone, telegraph, etc.

You need to be careful about presenting a personal linguistic preference as a set rule for a language. What a speaker might personally believe to sound better might not be correct, or, it might not be the _only_ correct way. Given the inevitable evolution of any language with its dialectic variations, morphing slang and the constant influx of new influences, it does become difficult to distinguish between the pure, grammatical and formal "correct" way of speaking and writing the language and the methods we develop apart from what our English teachers hope to impart on us. I have addressed the logic of your claim, or lack thereof, in the above paragraphs.



Porteño said:


> Hi there geostan! I think you're wallowing in the distant past when you say that the question should not end with a preposition in strictly grammatical terms. Winston Churchill once made a famous referemce to the fact that someone, I think it was GBS, had said that a sentence should not end with a preposition, something which I believe died out with the dodo.



See my previous post.


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## geostan

calyppso said:


> I believe you are wrong.
> 
> TV is NOT a concept. It is a thing and a medium. I think you are confusing the function of TV with that of the term "media." "Media" in itself may have some qualities of being a construct or general notion/idea, thus it could be classified as a "concept." "TV," however, does stand for television, and the verb "invent" further implies its quality as an *object* rather than a _concept_. Concepts are intangible things that people cannot invent; usually abstract terms like happiness, sorrow, euphoria, etc. or names for processes are concepts. No one has "invented" happiness. With, say, political processes that a specific person has designed or executed, however, the line between "construct/concept" and "thing" becomes blurry.
> 
> With objects, our language clearly has a history of applying definite articles.
> 
> While I, like you, would probably say "Who invented TV?" without all this meticulous analysis, I have certainly read and seen variations on this question that include the definite article, "THE TV," as well as with other objects of media such as the radio, telephone, telegraph, etc.
> 
> You need to be careful about presenting a personal linguistic preference as a set rule for a language. What a speaker might personally believe to sound better might not be correct, or, it might not be the _only_ correct way. Given the inevitable evolution of any language with its dialectic variations, morphing slang and the constant influx of new influences, it does become difficult to distinguish between the pure, grammatical and formal "correct" way of speaking and writing the language and the methods we develop apart from what our English teachers hope to impart on us. I have addressed the logic of your claim, or lack thereof, in the above paragraphs.
> 
> 
> 
> See my previous post.



This matter is getting very interesting. While I still maintain that to say "Who invented the TV?"  is unidiomatic, your other examples of radio, telegraph, and telephone do complicate the issue.  

Who invented (the) radio?  - I've heard both.
Who invented the telegraph/the telephone - I've only heard "the" 

So the notion of concept vs. object does not seem to cover every situation.

In the final analysis, perhaps the only possible answer is "usage." This is not very helpful to the learner, but there cannot be a grammatical reason for everything in language.

Or, perhaps there is an answer out there. One can only keep searching.


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## mariente

No entiendo. Decís que se dice invented the telegraph/telephone y no the tv? no entiendo por qué ni cómo darme cuenta en estos casos. Parece muy arbitrario.


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## calyppso

geostan said:


> This matter is getting very interesting. While I still maintain that to say "Who invented the TV?" is unidiomatic, your other examples of radio, telegraph, and telephone do complicate the issue.
> 
> Who invented (the) radio?  - I've heard both.
> Who invented the telegraph/the telephone - I've only heard "the"
> 
> So the notion of concept vs. object does not seem to cover every situation.
> 
> In the final analysis, perhaps the only possible answer is "usage." This is not very helpful to the learner, but there cannot be a grammatical reason for everything in language.
> 
> Or, perhaps there is an answer out there. One can only keep searching.




This is an interesting debate! I think the whole category of "media" really complicates things, as well as getting into whether certain words represent tangible "things" or abstract "ideas." 

Shifting planes of reality!


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## Porteño

To such an extent that I am now having doubts as to whetehr it is not better to ask 'Who invented the television?' although it still sounds rather odd. Perhaps by using 'televison' instead of 'tv', as one should when writing, makes it look better.


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