# деньги / денег



## ChicoAnimado

Is this noun an exception to the rule that the nouns in the accusative form doesn't change if they're inanimate? For example: _он истратил кучу денег _*(source)*_._


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## morzh

No, but what confused you is that "он истратил КУЧУ". Not "Он истратил ДЕНЕГ". if it was only "деньги" then it'd be "он истратил деньги".
But "куча ЧЕГО? - ДЕНЕГ".


Similarly:

- Он купил картошку.

But

Он купил воз картошки.


Он купил брюки - Он купил пару брюк.


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## ChicoAnimado

Actually that was just an example I found on a random search. It's more of a general thing.
For example, a quick look up in google shows that "Дай мне денег" yields more results than its accusative counterpart, so it's kind of confusing (the same goes for "Дай мне воды"), I guess it's that issue again between accusative and genitive forms. So my question for now is: Дай мне -> genitive (?)


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## Syline

The two forms can be full synonyms, but in some cases there can be difference b/w them:
1) Дай мне денег. - Give me *some* money. (You just ask for money (perhaps, borrow it) without naming an exact sum) 
2) Дай мне деньги. - Give me *the/this* money. (You ask for определенные (certain???) money) 

I *always* say "дай мне деньги". It is possible to use the Accusative in both contexts, but the Genitive suits only the first one.


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## estreets

Дай мне денег - It's named the partitive case in Russian. It's used to indicate an uncertain amount of the stuff under question and may be used instead of the accusative. It coincides with the genitive case.
In affirmative sentences it indicates an uncertain amount and in negative one - the absolute negation.
Дай мне денег (some money) - Дай мне деньги (the money)
Он не дал мне денег (no money at all) - он не дал мне деньги (some certain money, the money we've spoken earlier).
And I suppose with истратить the partitive is not used. It's somehow impossible to say он истратил денег. One can say он истратил денег больше, чем имел but in the case деньги relates to больше and should be in the genitive case. So not all the verbs allow the partitive case.


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## Maroseika

A beggar: Дайте денег, добрый господин!
A mugger: Гони деньги, толстое пузо!


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## ChicoAnimado

Thank you all.

BTW: I assume that for that reason "Дай мне воды" (give me some water) is much more common than "Дай мне вода" (give me the water, which is much less common).


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## Maroseika

ChicoAnimado said:


> I assume that for that reason "Дай мне воды" (give me some water) is much more common than "Дай мне воду" (give me the water, which is much less common).


Вода is feminine and therefore it's Acc. differs from Nom.
The latter usually means a bottle of water, so it is not less common - just different situations.


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## Syline

"Дай мне воды" usually means "give me some water to drink".
"Дай мне воду" usually means "give me a bottle/bucket/glass/etc. of water for some other purpose".


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## bibax

> Дай мне денег - It's named the partitive case in Russian.


This type of genitive is often called partitive genitive. In some languages (like French) it is extensively used, in others it is non-existent (English, Spanish).


> "Дай мне воды" usually means "give me some water to drink".
> "Дай мне воду" usually means "give me a bottle/bucket/glass/etc. of water for some other purpose".


Interestingly it is quite similar to French. For example: *le lait* vs. *du lait* (part. gen.) = milk.
Du lait, if you speak about the liquid.
Le lait, if you speak about the pack/bottle of milk.


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## rusita preciosa

Syline said:


> "Дай мне воды" usually means "give me some water *to drink*".
> "Дай мне воду" usually means "give me a bottle/bucket/glass/etc. of water *for some other purpose*".


Why "to drink" and "for some other purpose"?? Don't confuse the OP, the purpose has absolutely nothing to do with these forms. They only reflect unknown/partitive vs. known amount.


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## Explorer41

rusita preciosa said:


> Why "to drink" and "for some other purpose"?? Don't confuse the OP, the purpose has absolutely nothing to do with these forms. They only reflect unknown/partitive vs. known amount.


I think, it deals rather with the fact whether the amount is messaged, not known (and whether telling amount is meaningful at all*). When we tell of drinking water, usually we don't mention its amount even if we know it very well -- I don't know why. I believe it's because we are not interested what water shall we drink -- we just drink some water, no matter where did we get it.

When you need a water for some technological process, you are interested what water will you use -- probably just because you (or someone else) had to think about the water before the process began. We prepared, say, a bottle of water and put it at our working place.

* for example, I remember Frodo's answer from "Властелин колец" -- "я воду в карманах не ношу!" . He doesn't speak of any amount of water, he just states a general fact about water -- so the Genitive here would be absolutely meaningless.


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## morzh

rusita preciosa said:


> Why "to drink" and "for some other purpose"?? Don't confuse the OP, the purpose has absolutely nothing to do with these forms. They only reflect unknown/partitive vs. known amount.



Actually, I somewhat agree with Syline.

You're right, directly it has nothing to do with the purpose, but somehow a stable expression, when a person wants to have a sip of water, is "дай мне воды (попить)/ я хочу воды (попить)", and when "дай мне воду" is said, it is usually for some other reason - "дай мне воду" as if I want to prepare a mortar/cement mix, or to use water for whatever other purposes, and ask to pass me the water in a vessel. Or if it is in a hose from a tap, then "давай воду / открой воду" (of course, "открой воды" is not possible).
Also, the latter (воду) often means "the water in a vessel", or in a known amount. As like if I cook, and the water is pre-measured and sits there in apitcher waiting to be added in the pot, and I ask someone to pass it to me, I will ask "дай воду".

This all is not a precise science, and there is nothing drastically wrong with doing it otherwise, but this is my experience.


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## Syline

rusita preciosa said:


> Don't confuse the OP, the purpose has absolutely nothing to do with these forms.


Sorry to say you that, but you're totally wrong. If we talk about water in the phrase "дай мне...", the purpose defines the shade of meaning of both forms.


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## estreets

I completely agree with Rusita Preciosa. Anyone can say "Дай мне воды цветочки полить" or "Дайте воды помыть машину" "Нам надо пожар потушить, дайте воды, если не жалко " and these phrases are absolutely correct. The purpose doesn't influence the choice of either case.

In addition, one is free to say "Дай мне воду, умираю от жажды" or "Дай воду, пить очень хочется" but in this case, as mentioned before, "_воду_" would be some amount of water (or a container, e.g. a bottle) which is known to both speakers.
"Вчера мы купили бутылку газировки, она в холодильнике стояла. Дай-ка мне (эту) воду, в горле пересохло".


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## Syline

Explicit context changes things a lot.


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