# أهل الذكر



## seta

اقتراب الواقع من الواقع فن اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر
Hi! Could anybody explain to me what اهل الذكر is? 
I heard اهل البيت but I never heard اهل الذكر .
How would you translate  اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر?


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## AndyRoo

seta said:


> Hi! Could anybody explain to me what اهل الذكر is?


 
Hi there,

I believe this refers to the Sufis, because in their ceremonies they incessantly repeat/mention the name of God.



seta said:


> How would you translate اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر?


 
I'm not sure about the context, but perhaps: "you should ask the Sufis about".


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## seta

Thank's! Now it is all clear..


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## nado92

AndyRoo said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I *believe *this refers to the Sufis, because in their ceremonies they incessantly repeat/mention the name of God.
> 
> I'm not sure about the context, but perhaps: "you should ask the *Sufis *about".


*No, they aren't at all.*
You are really mistaken.


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## Outlandish

From the sentence you provided I do not think that the topic is the sentence is Sufis unless you say otherwise. The Sufis practice an act of worship called _dhikr _in their special sufi way, but the act itself is not confined to Sufis alone, all Muslims do it. 


Apparently the sentence pertains to verse 43, Surah 16:



> وماارسلنا من قبلك الا رجالا نوحي اليهم فسألوا اهل الذكر ان كنتم  لاتعلمون



_Dhikr _here means revelation. It means that if you Arabs wonder at God's messenger being a man, ask about it the people of Scripture and they will tell you. 

People in other fields and other contexts sometimes use this saying to indicate that people of specialty should be referred to. The text which this sentence comes from will determine who are the people of specialty meant in the sentence.


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## nado92

seta said:


> اقتراب الواقع من الواقع فن اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر
> Hi! Could anybody explain to me what اهل الذكر is?
> I heard اهل البيت but I never heard اهل الذكر .
> How would you translate  اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر?


Please,just give us the context?
Did you mean' وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي  إِلَيْهِمْ *فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ* إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ "  (النحل43).


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## AndyRoo

Oh yes very sorry for my misleading reply  Thank you for the correction.


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## Faylasoof

Seta,

أهل الذكرis used in the Quran:

An-Nahl (16)​ -Verse 43-​ وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ​ 

And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. - Yusuf Ali translation

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! – Pickthal translation

AND [even] before thy time, [O Muhammad,] We never sent [as Our apostles] any but [mortal] men, whom We inspiredand if you have not [yet] realized this, ask the followers of [earlier] revelation* <**46>**  -  *Muhammad Asad translation

[_Note _*46 **-*_Lit., "reminder"- because every divine message is meant to remind one of the truth. The people to be asked for enlightenment in this respect are apparently the Jews and the Christians (Tabari, Zamakhshari)._ - Asad]

Also used in this chapter:

Al-2Anbiyaa' (21)​ -Verse 7-​ وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ​ Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. - Yusuf Ali translation

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye know not?  -  Pickthal translation 


For its Quranic use, and according to both Tabari and Zamakhshari, it _refers to peoples of earlier revelations_, i.e. Jews and Christians, as claimed by Asad. _Other commentators may have had different opinions._ 

Yusuf Ali himself also mentions the above but says it _may also refer to those who know / wise people. _I think he may mean those_ who have knowledge of spiritual matters (as used in this context)._

Could you tell us where this quote is from?


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## seta

First of all, thank you everybody! I've found this sentence in a short story of Yusuf Idris entitled "The Cigar" ( from the collection Hadith Sharaf).
The narrator reflects about the distance between man'desires and the reality. I had thought to Sufys like AndyRoo..


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## cherine

This expression is commonly and widely quoted from the Qur'an, and often used to refer to "people of experience" or "of knowledge".

As all the others said, the translation depends largely -if not only- on the context.


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## djara

In modern Arabic, this quotation from the Quran is frequently used as a comment on a rash decision when someone has made a mistake which (s)he could have easily avoided by consulting those who know. 
It is also used as an argument for democracy.


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## Ghabi

So it's like the English "Leave it to an expert", used as an advice or a rebuke?


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## cherine

Ghabi said:


> So it's like the English "Leave it to an expert", used as an advice or a rebuke?


More or less. I think "leave it to an expert" means: let the experts do it. But اسألوا أهل الذكر is about consulting people of experience/knowledge.


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## seta

So has this expression lost its sacred meaning ? I'm very curious because very often Yusuf Idris in his short stories makes fun of the Quran and I want to know if this is the case. The short story I'm reading is about sexual attraction between a woman and a man and deals with sex in a very subtle way. I would like to understand if there is a combination of sacred and profane.


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## cherine

"Makes fun of the Qur'an"?! Are you sure?

It is very very common for educated people -specially Muslims- to use quotations from the Qur'an in their talking and writing. Some verses are so commonly used in everyday life that some people don't even know/remember that these expressions are originally from the Qur'an. Like a famous saying الصلح خير . Would I be "making fun" of the Qur'an if I use this Quranic expression to advise 2 quarreling persons that it's better to make up/make peace.

What I want to say is that using أهل الذكر (or any other quotation from the Qur'an) in a non-religious text doesn't offend the sanctity of the Qur'an, nor is it a blasphemy. Unless it is used purposely for this reason, which I'm sure isn't something Idris would have done. On the contrary, these kinds of borrowing added eloquence and beauty to the texts of these writers, of course when used well.


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## seta

Maybe I could use another expression..softer...but Yusuf Idris is famous for " Subverting Holy Scriptures" (This is the title of an essay of Renate Wise, published in 1998. Subverting Holy Scriptures. The Short Stories of Yusuf Idris).


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## Outlandish

If the sentence you provided, (اقتراب الواقع من الواقع فن اسالوا عنه اهل الذكر), was from a context about sex topics and the "people of specialty" are those experienced in sex matters or something of the sort, it would be considered an unacceptable impolite borrowing.

A quick overview, using Qur'anic verses in human contexts has been subject to many discussions. There are regulations which most people do not know and they either innocently or impolitely use Qur'anic verses in places where they shouldn't.This is called تضمين or اقتباس . Some of the regulations of _Iqtibas _from Quran are: 

-Express the same meaning of the verse, as when used in sermons, treaties, advice, etc, but also in letters, stories and everyday conversations.

- Never allow any change in the meaning. We can say الصلح خير or فلتعفوا ولتصفحوا when we want to reconcile two foes. If the meaning is changed to another thing, there are two opinions: 

Some disapprove of meaning change even if it is about respectful topics, like when you finish a discussion between two students saying قضى الأمر الذى فيه تستفتيان . Others find it acceptable to use verses about things which do not pertain to the Qur'anic context, but only if used in respectful contexts and never with non-ethical subjects. 

Yusuf Idris was one of many writers who stepped beyond acceptable limits. Many people, authors are among them, criticized his _iqtibas._ For example, he named one of his short stories سورة البقرة; it had no connection to the Surah and was talking about two peasants arguing about the price of a cow.


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## seta

Thanks a lot! You have given to me very useful information!


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## L.2

Some Quranic verses have been used so much that people don't know they are verses from the Quran. You can use or joke about them because they are no more Quranic verses if it used out of context.
أهل الذكر means religious scholars I always hear it in fataw's TV programes.


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## uas60

(This is more of an Islamic question rather than an Arabic question, as the literal meaning is not always the same as the interpretation.)

أهل الذكر - Literally: People of rememberance.

The meaning could be many... Allahu warasuluh (s) a'lam the true meaning. The meaning I know about is that we should ask *the people who know*, i.e. the experts in their field, and this is not limited to Islam, but other fields of life as well.

(If I said anything wrong then may Allah forgive me and guide me)


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