# white date rape caps



## raffavita

Hi everybody,


I'm having trouble with a passage from the novel that I'm translating now.
The author is describing a pub and goes like this:

The place was awful and bright with five TVs showing ESPN and bartenders that could’ve been Teemo, probably had their own bad histories, greasy, balloon-chested fucks in Nautica gear with Yankee tats on their necks and *white date rape caps*.

I googled a bit and found some references to "date rape", which I understand by itself. However, I don't get the connection with caps.
Any clues?
Thanks in advance
Raffa


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## Mary49

Ciao,
ti serve una traduzione in italiano? Altrimenti è da Solo Inglese.


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## raffavita

Ciao, sì, mi serve anche la traduzione perché appunto sto traducendo un libro.
Certo, non sarà semplice. Servirebbe una mega perifrasi qui. E non credo che il lettore italiano capirebbe molto dalla descrizione del cappello.
Se aggirassi il problema con un "e la faccia da stupratori"? L'idea è quella no?
Grazie mille.


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## A User

_...e, a giudicare dai berretti, dall'aspetto poco raccomandabile._


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## Mary49

Tanto per farmi un'idea, come traduci "fucks"? 
Per quanto riguarda "caps", non so come si possa giudicare poco raccomandabile qualcuno dal suo berretto. Come sono i "berretti da stupro"?
Non potrebbe essere che "caps" stia per "capsules", "white capsules for date rape"?   
Molly the rape drug rises to the occasion in Nairobi


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## rrose17

To be honest I had absolutely no idea what this meant but then found this. I find it hard to believe that this is well known, however...


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## A User

A User said:


> _...e, a giudicare dai berretti, dall'aspetto poco raccomandabile._


Oppure:_..e con dei cappellini (bianchi) con la visiera calata sul volto che li faceva sembrare tipi poco raccomandabili.._
_…e con dei berretti con la visiera calata da sembrare brutti ceffi._


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## Benzene

_Penso che Mary sia sul binario giusto con "caps" = "capsule/pastiglie", infatti il link parla di Rohypnol.
Un'occhiata qui._

_Bye,
*Benzene*_


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## rrose17

Hard it imagine "cap" meaning capsule here. They were bartenders with tattoos on their necks and "white date rape caps". I'm pretty sure they're referring to the hats on their heads, especially after finding this image.


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## Mary49

I had found the picture of that cap, but then I deleted it, because I don't think that those guys could wear such a kind of caps. I mean, it was a sign that they wanted to rape some girls...and I cannot imagine it.


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## rrose17

No, it's meant as a warning. It's saying to be careful. It's sold along with other caps that have slogans like "No means no!" etc.


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## A User

rrose17 said:


> No, it's meant as a warning. It's saying to be careful. It's sold along with other caps that have slogans like "No means no!" etc.


Date a Cesare quello che è di Cesare, …
Penso che dopo la spiegazione di rrose17, sia doveroso rivedere il senso della frase: I bartenders indossavano dei cappellini bianchi che mettevano in guardia gli avventori del bar/pub in modo da non permettere l'inserimento di droghe da stupro nelle bevande servite da parte di persone estranee.
Thanks, rrose17.


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## theartichoke

I suspect that the original line is just trying to evoke a very particular local type of American male, one whom the narrator clearly doesn't think much of. He's "balloon-chested" because he works out too much (and/or takes steroids); "Nautica gear" is clearly a brand reference that no doubt means something specific to people more familiar with this type of man than I am--brand of choice of lower-middle-class "bros", perhaps? Tattooing yourself in homage to the New York Yankees would seem to have similar connotations. This kind of male also favours a white ball cap, and he's _also _the kind of guy who would go in for date rape, who'd be trying to rip a girl's clothes off if she was unfortunate enough to go home with him, and then justify it by saying she asked for it, etc.

So my guess is that there's no such thing as a "white date rape cap": it's a white cap that is the final "tribal" marker of a certain kind of low-life local male, who is associated with date rape, among other things.


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## raffavita

theartichoke said:


> So my guess is that there's no such thing as a "white date rape cap": it's a white cap that is the final "tribal" marker of a certain kind of low-life local male, who is associated with date rape, among other things.



Hi there. Yes, I think that's the sense of the passage. He is describing men who probably had bad histories, some dodgy fellas...
So no matter what "caps" actually means here (capsules or caps), I think we should focus on the fact that they look like they could even be rapists. 
On the other hand, yeah, maybe these bartenders were wearing those caps as a warning, but that would be a positive feature, inconsistent with the rest of the description, which sounds rather negative, wouldn't it?


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## Pietruzzo

rrose17 said:


> They were bartenders with tattoos on their necks and "white date rape caps".


I'm not sure that the bartenders and the baloon-chested fucks are the same guys.


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## raffavita

Pietruzzo said:


> I'm not sure that the bartenders and the baloon-chested fucks are the same guys.



Well, I'm quite positive.  It's the only subject after TVs. 

The place was awful and bright with five TVs showing ESPN and bartenders that could’ve been Teemo, probably had their own bad histories, greasy, balloon-chested fucks in Nautica gear with Yankee tats on their necks and white date rape caps.


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## Odysseus54

theartichoke said:


> I suspect that the original line is just trying to evoke a very particular local type of American male, one whom the narrator clearly doesn't think much of. He's "balloon-chested" because he works out too much (and/or takes steroids); "Nautica gear" is clearly a brand reference that no doubt means something specific to people more familiar with this type of man than I am--brand of choice of lower-middle-class "bros", perhaps? Tattooing yourself in homage to the New York Yankees would seem to have similar connotations. This kind of male also favours a white ball cap, and he's _also _the kind of guy who would go in for date rape, who'd be trying to rip a girl's clothes off if she was unfortunate enough to go home with him, and then justify it by saying she asked for it, etc.
> 
> So my guess is that there's no such thing as a "white date rape cap": it's a white cap that is the final "tribal" marker of a certain kind of low-life local male, who is associated with date rape, among other things.



Why don't you check out this site ?

As to the cultural connotation of Nautica gear, in my understanding it's white suburban stuff, frat kids' stuff.  The overall description makes me think of a 'clean' sports bar with bartenders perhaps recruited in the local gym, guys perhaps with their problems but trying to stay our of trouble.

The big question, though, is : who the heck is Teemo?


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## raffavita

Okay, I'll give it a shot:

Era un posto orribile, con cinque televisori sintonizzati sulla ESPN e baristi che molto probabilmente non erano migliori di Teemo; forse anche quegli stronzi palestrati con i capelli unti, i vestiti di Nautica, i tatuaggi degli Yankees sul collo e la faccia da stupratori avevano un passato burrascoso.



Odysseus54 said:


> Why don't you check out this site ?
> 
> As to the cultural connotation of Nautica gear, in my understanding it's white suburban stuff, frat kids' stuff.  The overall description makes me think of a 'clean' sports bar with bartenders perhaps recruited in the local gym, guys perhaps with their problems but trying to stay our of trouble.



Yes, I agree.


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## theartichoke

raffavita said:


> Se aggirassi il problema con un "e la faccia da stupratori"? L'idea è quella no?
> Grazie mille.



"i berretti bianchi da baseball sopra le loro facce da stupratori"? The fact that it's _date_ rape, though, makes it a shade different from "stupratori": these aren't necessarily guys who are going to break into your apartment and put a knife to your throat. They're guys who are going to get you drunk, keep going when you say "no," and then insist it was all totally consensual.


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## raffavita

theartichoke said:


> "i berretti bianchi da baseball sopra le loro facce da stupratori"? The fact that it's _date_ rape, though, makes it a shade different from "stupratori": these aren't necessarily guys who are going to break into your apartment and put a knife to your throat. They're guys who are going to get you drunk, keep going when you say "no," and then insist it was all totally consensual.



Well, would that make them less rapists, after all?


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## theartichoke

Odysseus54 said:


> Why don't you check out this site ?
> The big question, though, is : who the heck is Teemo?



Knowing something about Teemo could help, I admit. But I would love to know if there are bars in the US (or anywhere), where the bartenders wear hats that warn you about date rape. If there are, I stand corrected!



raffavita said:


> Well, would that make them less rapists, after all?



Absolutely not. But it does add a shade of nuance as to the _kind _of rapists--and by extension, the exact type of people--that they are. (That said, I see no way to work it into the translation, so _stupratori_ is perfectly fine.)


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## raffavita

Teemo is another bartender, who works in another pub and has a history of violence.


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## Odysseus54

theartichoke said:


> "i berretti bianchi da baseball sopra le loro facce da stupratori"? The fact that it's _date_ rape, though, makes it a shade different from "stupratori": these aren't necessarily guys who are going to break into your apartment and put a knife to your throat. They're guys who are going to get you drunk, keep going when you say "no," and then insist it was all totally consensual.



I doubt that a date rapist would advertise his business on his baseball cap, the likes of which are sold on a site which also sells explicitly anti-rape caps, t-shirts, etc.  It's weird stuff, that much I agree with, but I think that 'facce da stupratori' is a forced interpretation.

"... stronzi coi capelli imbrillantinati, torace gonfio, e sulla testa dei berrettini bianchi anti-stupro"

It kinda makes sense in a funny way because these dudes do look like someone you wouldn't want to be alone with, but then they wear the cap - company policy, I guess.


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## theartichoke

Odysseus54 said:


> I doubt that a date rapist would advertise his business on his baseball cap.



So do I: my point was that a greasy, pumped up dude in Nautica gear, a Yankees tattoo, and a (plain) white ball-cap is likely to also be a date rapist, at least according to the narrator. The "date rape" bit just got worked into the white ball-cap description rather than being placed elsewhere.

But as I said, if there really are bars where the bartenders wear anti-rape hats as company policy, I stand corrected!


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## A User

If it is not a Warning, it can be only humor.
bartenders_helping_ugly_people Men's T-Shirt | Spreadshirt


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## raffavita

Actually, I can't help thinking that caps here stands for capsules. The bartenders look like they could easily drop drugs into some chick's drink. That's my idea of these people. The description of these men is a very negative one. Why would they wear anti-rape caps in the first place? Ok, I agree, these caps exist. But I'm having trouble picturing them on these guys' heads.


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## rrose17

Is the narrator a fan of video games? Teemo seems to be a video game character. I think caps as short for capsules is too much of a stretch. I think they're wearing white baseball caps, whether these are warning of the dangers of date rape or the narrator somehow connects these type of white hats with date-rapists (both equally bizarre) we don't know., I guess.


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## theartichoke

I also don't think that "caps" can be capsules, for 2 reasons: one, everything else in the description involves things that are _visible_ about these guys (if it listed instead things like "with condoms in their wallets, switchblades in their socks, and hatred in their hearts," it would be a different matter); and two, _white_ date rape capsules make no sense, as I don't think anyone's familiar enough with the colours of such things to think "ah yes, they've got the white ones rather than the blue ones....". 

Someone I mentioned this baffling thread to pointed out a possible parallel with the white T-shirt known as a "wife-beater": guys who go around in a certain kind of white undershirt are of the kind stereotyped as domestic abusers; guys who go around in white baseball caps are stereotyped as date-rapists. It's not implausible, I guess.


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## MR1492

rrose17 said:


> Hard it imagine "cap" meaning capsule here. They were bartenders with tattoos on their necks and "white date rape caps". I'm pretty sure they're referring to the hats on their heads, especially after finding this image.
> View attachment 29705





rrose17 said:


> No, it's meant as a warning. It's saying to be careful. It's sold along with other caps that have slogans like "No means no!" etc.



I have to agree with rrose. The text is about "baseball caps" and not capsules. As a native speaker of AE, I never thought of capsules but immediately thought of baseball caps. If the author is an AE speaker, that's what I'd suggest you use.

Phil


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## Odysseus54

theartichoke said:


> I also don't think that "caps" can be capsules, for 2 reasons: one, everything else in the description involves things that are _visible_ about these guys (if it listed instead things like "with condoms in their wallets, switchblades in their socks, and hatred in their hearts," it would be a different matter); and two, _white_ date rape capsules make no sense, as I don't think anyone's familiar enough with the colours of such things to think "ah yes, they've got the white ones rather than the blue ones....".
> 
> Someone I mentioned this baffling thread to pointed out a possible parallel with the white T-shirt known as a "wife-beater": guys who go around in a certain kind of white undershirt are of the kind stereotyped as domestic abusers; guys who go around in white baseball caps are stereotyped as date-rapists. It's not implausible, I guess.



Certainly not implausible but not documented either, whereas 'wife-beaters' (canottiere) are. 
At least, I have never heard of "white baseball hats" as a stereotype indicating the typical date-rapist. 
Has anyone?
I must say that your interpretation does grow on one, though.  Baseball caps are a mainstream / college kid / white suburban accessory. They do look good for a metaphor of date-rapist.


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## A User

Odysseus54 said:


> At least, I have never heard of "white baseball hats" as a stereotype indicating the typical date-rapist.


Same mistake (misunderstanding) I made. Not a simple white baseball hat, but one with that sketch (picture) on.
In questo caso il messaggio subliminale non sarebbe rivolto alle vittime, ma agli stessi strupratori (che non sono i bartender che indossano il cappellino) : Vieni da me, che io so come darti una mano.
A fare cosa?  A ottenere, per altre vie, quello che è raffigurato sulla maglietta. Geniale, devo ammettere.
Double game.


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## Pietruzzo

To me those guys are not described as rapist or as being pro- or anti-rape. They are describied as idiots wearing caps with silly "offensive" labels. There are many of those items. Here's another one


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## rrose17

Pietruzzo said:


> They are described as idiots wearing caps with silly "offensive" labels.


I think this is as likely as anything but hard to know for sure from the OT. But why say "white" date-rape caps? It's so specific, like a uniform. Anyways...


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## A User

rrose17 said:


> But why say "white" date-rape caps? It's so specific, like a uniform.


Date Rape
No idea.


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## raffavita

Hi there.
First of all, I want to thank everybody.
The problem here is how to translate such a thing avoiding long descriptions which would be disturbing and misleading for an Italian reader. No one here knows anything about these white baseball caps. So, like I wrote above, I think that the focus is on the characters, not on details. I mean, I could explain and describe these caps like this: "con berretti bianchi con il disegno di un drink e di una mano che versa una pasticca". Can you imagine that?
It would be impossible to translate such a detail without sounding redundant. So I stick with the idea that these guys are a cross between jerks and dangerous people. Maybe even rapists, who knows? After all, the author says: "Maybe they had their own bad histories". It's a maybe, but still a possibility.


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## Pietruzzo

raffavita said:


> The problem here is how to translate such a thing


My try:
Dei cazzoni ingelatinati e pompati col tatuaggio degli Yankees sul collo e  berretti bianchi inneggianti allo stupro.


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## theartichoke

One last reason why I don't think these caps have any kind of literal messages about date rape on them, whether warning of, joking about, celebrating, or otherwise: the U.S. is a very litigious society. This is a brightly-lit sports bar with 5 screens tuned to ESPN--it's a corporate kind of bar, not some underground criminal dive bar. If you allow--let alone encourage or mandate--your bartenders to wear hats with messages about rape on them, and someone ends up getting raped by a patron or staff member from your bar, you are going to get the pants sued off you.

In terms of the translation, I don't see anything wrong with mentioning that the guys are wearing white baseball caps. Italians won't associate them with date rapists, but neither does anyone on this forum. Italians might, I think, be able to put together all the descriptors--greasiness, body-builder physiques, Nautica gear, Yankees tats, and white baseball caps--into an image of a stereotypical obnoxious American. And adding that they had "la faccia da stupratori"--unrelated to the hats--completes the image provided by the original.


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## Pietruzzo

theartichoke said:


> f you allow--let alone encourage or mandate--your bartenders to wear hats with messages about rape on them,


I still think that  the "greasy fucks" are not bartenders. I think they are people standing in the pub, maybe some sort of gang.


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## Mary49

Pietruzzo said:


> I still think that  the "greasy fucks" are not bartenders. I think they are people standing in the pub, maybe some sort of gang.


This was my first impression too.
Actually, the next sentence says: "But xxx and xxx didn't know anything about them and could pretend". Does it make sense to know something about the bartenders?


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## Odysseus54

Pietruzzo said:


> I still think that  the "greasy fucks" are not bartenders. I think they are people standing in the pub, maybe some sort of gang.



Grammatically, in what is a list of two groups of people, you would need an 'and', not just a comma.  Simplifying the terms :

Bartenders and greasy fucks. 

not

Bartenders, greasy fucks.


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## rrose17

With a little literary licence it could be 
_The place was bright with five TVs and bartenders that could’ve been Teemo, balloon-chested fucks with Yankee tats on their necks and white date rape caps._
Like this it sounds like cap wearers are indeed not the same as the bartenders but just some local jerks.


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## theartichoke

Mary49 said:


> This was my first impression too.
> Actually, the next sentence says: "But xxx and xxx didn't know anything about them and could pretend". Does it make sense to know something about the bartenders?



In this context, it does make sense. The sentence before the one in question states that xxx and xxx couldn't go to bar Y any more because Teemo was tending bar there. So they go to bar Z, where the bartenders _look_ like Teemo, but xxx and xxx don't know the (bad) things about them that they know about Teemo, so they can pretend that the bartenders, despite their appearance, aren't like Teemo after all.

I agree with Ody (and the OP) about the structure of the sentence: the greasy fucks, grammatically, have to be the bartenders. The only grammatical way to read it otherwise would state that the four occupants of the bar were as follows: 1) five TVs; 2) bartenders that could have been Teemo; 3) greasy fucks with Yankee tats; and 4) white date rape caps. Now we have veered off into the surreal.


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## Pietruzzo

Odysseus54 said:


> Grammatically, in what is a list of two groups of people, you would need an 'and', not just a comma.  Simplifying the terms :
> 
> Bartenders and greasy fucks.
> 
> not
> 
> Bartenders, greasy fucks.





theartichoke said:


> I agree with Ody (and the OP) about the structure of the sentence: the greasy fucks, grammatically, have to be the bartenders


I see. At least, I know that I know nothing now.


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## Odysseus54

"... con in testa quei berretti bianchi da stupratori del sabato sera."


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## MR1492

theartichoke said:


> I agree with Ody (and the OP) about the structure of the sentence: the greasy fucks, grammatically, have to be the bartenders. The only grammatical way to read it otherwise would state that the four occupants of the bar were as follows: 1) five TVs; 2) bartenders that could have been Teemo; 3) greasy fucks with Yankee tats; and 4) white date rape caps. Now we have veered off into the surreal.



Exactly! Looking at the text *here*, you can see that the author is describing the bartenders.



Odysseus54 said:


> "... con in testa quei berretti bianchi da stupratori del sabato sera."



I agree that there probably isn't a "baseball cap" reference that would work in Italy. I think the only such caps I've ever seen there are either worn by or sold to tourists! So there isn't much culturally to hang this on. Odysseus probably has the best solution but I don't know that there is a "good" solution to this one.

Phil


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## raffavita

Hi again.
I am quite sure that the bartenders are wearing those caps. And I do believe that he is trying to say that those men might be as bad as Teemo (who killed a guy in the past). And a white cap alone wouldn't convey the impression of bad guys.


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## Tellure

Forse questa definizione di "white caps" dall'UD potrebbe tornare utile:

The term 'white cap' is used to describe a member of a group of try-hard teenagers who dress similarly; particularly by wearing a white baseball cap. The cap can be any brand as long as it is white all over and is worn with two special adjustments: having the hat sitting as far back on your head so that your fringe is visible and sticking out at the front and leaving the hat adjustment tag dangling down your neck. Most white caps also wear XXXXL nylon track pants (usually Kappa brand) and XXXXXL shirts (preferably polo). Lastly, white caps usually wear Nike sneakers (or similar), presumably because they need to run from the police so often after tagging public property. According to white cap mentality, tagging a wall is a form of art and makes them ghetto. Apart from their similar dress sense white caps or 'lads' (as they refer to themselves as) are troublesome individuals who are even worse when combined in a group. Their saturday nights usually invovle going to parties they are not invited to and gate crashing. After being kicked out by bouncers and causing a huge commotion (often resulting in brawls), lads then roam the streets looking for people that are smaller than them or alone to beat up or roll. However, most 'white caps' are scrawny and weak, with little to no muscle tone, so often this hunt for smaller people can take a while.
Urban Dictionary: white cap




theartichoke said:


> So do I: my point was that a greasy, pumped up dude in Nautica gear, a Yankees tattoo, and a (plain) white ball-cap is likely to also be a date rapist, at least according to the narrator. The "date rape" bit just got worked into the white ball-cap description rather than being placed elsewhere.


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## MR1492

raffavita said:


> Hi again.
> I am quite sure that the bartenders are wearing those caps. And I do believe that he is trying to say that those men might be as bad as Teemo (who killed a guy in the past). And a white cap alone wouldn't convey the impression of bad guys.



The caps have nothing to do with how the guys act or what they do. It's just a part of their uniform as bartenders. Seriously, guys, that's what it means.



Tellure said:


> Forse questa definizione di "white caps" dall'UD potrebbe tornare utile:
> 
> The term 'white cap' is used to describe a member of a group of try-hard teenagers who dress similarly; particularly by wearing a white baseball cap. The cap can be any brand as long as it is white all over and is worn with two special adjustments: having the hat sitting as far back on your head so that your fringe is visible and sticking out at the front and leaving the hat adjustment tag dangling down your neck. Most white caps also wear XXXXL nylon track pants (usually Kappa brand) and XXXXXL shirts (preferably polo). Lastly, white caps usually wear Nike sneakers (or similar), presumably because they need to run from the police so often after tagging public property. According to white cap mentality, tagging a wall is a form of art and makes them ghetto. Apart from their similar dress sense white caps or 'lads' (as they refer to themselves as) are troublesome individuals who are even worse when combined in a group. Their saturday nights usually invovle going to parties they are not invited to and gate crashing. After being kicked out by bouncers and causing a huge commotion (often resulting in brawls), lads then roam the streets looking for people that are smaller than them or alone to beat up or roll. However, most 'white caps' are scrawny and weak, with little to no muscle tone, so often this hunt for smaller people can take a while.
> Urban Dictionary: white cap



I'm sorry, Tellure, but in this case it's just a description of the uniform they are wearing. It really, really, REALLY, doesn't have a deeper meaning in this story.

Please trust me, rrose, and Ody on this one. I've been reading, writing, and speaking AE for almost 70 years. There is no deep metaphysical or philosophical or cultural norm being described. It's simply a descriptive sentence to set the mood. 

Often, when we native speakers of English ask questions here, we often get the answer, "We just don't say it that way," or "Non suona bene." In this case, the caps are just caps. That's it. Period. End of story.

Phil


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## theartichoke

MR1492 said:


> The caps have nothing to do with how the guys act or what they do. It's just a part of their uniform as bartenders.



Just for the sake of clarity, Phil, are you saying that you think the "white date rape caps" are like the picture in #9: i.e., caps with some kind of message or graphic concerning date rape? If so, does the bar owner have them wear these hats as part of their uniform to warn against date rape, or as some kind of bad joke? And either way, wouldn't that open the bar up to a lawsuit?


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## MR1492

theartichoke said:


> Just for the sake of clarity, Phil, are you saying that you think the "white date rape caps" are like the picture in #9: i.e., caps with some kind of message or graphic concerning date rape? If so, does the bar owner have them wear these hats as part of their uniform to warn against date rape, or as some kind of bad joke? And either way, wouldn't that open the bar up to a lawsuit?



That's exactly what I'm saying. I asked my wife to read the original text and she agrees. It certainly would appear to be a "uniform" of sorts since they are all wearing the same thing. That is, it's something all the bartenders have to wear. As to the lawsuits, this is a work of fiction. If the author doesn't want anyone to sue the bar, he won't write it into the story.

Phil


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## theartichoke

MR1492 said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. I asked my wife to read the original text and she agrees. It certainly would appear to be a "uniform" of sorts since they are all wearing the same thing. That is, it's something all the bartenders have to wear.



As a warning? As a joke? I honestly think that Occam's Razor is with my interpretation on this one, but I'd be the first to concede if someone could find evidence of rape-themed hats (or badges, or T-shirts, etc.) being worn by the staff in New York bars. It's a work of fiction, but if you go read a bit of the novel in google books (I've now read way too much of it!), it's aiming for a kind of gritty, realistic portrayal of a scuzzy part of Brooklyn, and the way that it just casually throws the mention of the caps in there with no explanation implies to me that "white date rape caps" (i.e., they're not called "white caps with anti-date-rape slogans" or "white caps with date rape jokes on them") are an ordinary thing that people know about, just like everyone knows what "Nautica gear" and "Yankee tats" are. The author didn't make up a fictional clothing brand or a fictional baseball team, so why make up a bizarre fictional practice of having all the bartenders wear hats with some kind of date rape graphic?

I fully admit that neither I nor anyone here associates date rapists with white baseball caps (although, god help us, I probably will from now on ), but in the absence of evidence that there are, or were bars in which the staff wear, or wore, rape-themed accessories, I think the simplest explanation is that these greasy, over-muscled guys who looked like Teemo (a murderer) and "probably had their own bad histories" also looked like the kind of guys that a girl should think twice about going out with. And curses upon the author for mentioning it in the context of their hats!


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## MR1492

To me, the simple explanation is "it's their uniform." In posts #6 and #9, rrose provided examples of the "date rape caps" with slogans/pictures. I think we're making this too damned hard. I've read parts of the book on Google (it's not great but it's ok) and I stand by my assessment. If you are really applying Occam's Razor, then the uniform answer should apply. All the rest require complex social analysis and conjecture and would require the bartenders to simultaneously and spontaneously decide to wear white date rape caps. I vote for "It's a uniform."

Phil


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## lentulax

The place tries to look smart , up-to-date and cool, but fails . The bartenders wear white caps with anti-rape graphics . These aren't offensive. On the site rrose linked to, there are thousands of items , all of them with right-on messages on them; there are literally more than a thousand with anti-rape slogans. These items are sold (see the onsite blurb) on the basis that they are 'cool' (which inevitably means that many will find them naff). It's quite possible that they're worn because the pub's owner (ok - I know he doesn't exist) was more interested in looking cool than preventing date-rape, but they're an obvious choice over, say, 'Hell for paedophiles'. Why not just translate 'white baseball caps with anti-date-rape slogans' - it's not the translator's job to explain cultural contexts , whether its hats, Yankee tattoos or Nautica gear. I can't see why anyone wearing a garment with a right-on message should fear a law-suit - in the UK, it's getting to the stage where you're more likely to risk a prosecution if you don't wear one.


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## A User

theartichoke said:


> (i.e., they're not called "*white caps with anti-date-rape slogans*" or "*white caps with date rape jokes on them*")


Neanche nel prodotto in commercio c'è scritto quello, e non c'è scritto né "*white date rapist caps*" né " *white anti date rape caps*". Mi riferisco sempre al prodotto sul mercato.
Un bartender, probabilmente, non ha bisogno di usare questi sistemi per divertirsi sessualmente, specie se è palestrato.
Al contrario, potrebbe far parte di un gruppo che, sotto mentite spoglie, spaccia, e che ha scelto come segno distintivo questo tipo di _cappellino. _
Esiste un parallelismo tra il double joke dei bartenders, il double joke dello scrittore (white caps…/white hats), e il double joke di chi pensa e vende questi cappellini. Le 'rollsroyce' in Italia sono state un caso tanto eclatante quanto privo di evidenze, alla faccia del rasoio di Occam.
Tutto grasso che cola per un lettore del genere poliziesco/noir.
Chi non recepisce il messaggio non è il target ideale per quel messaggio.


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## lentulax

theartichoke said:


> I'd be the first to concede if someone could find evidence of rape-themed hats (or badges, or T-shirts, etc.) being worn by the staff in New York bars


There's not much evidence, literary or otherwise , of bar owners anywhere who let all their staff wear gear that gives out the message 'We're bad guys, and we're particularly nasty to women'. Perhaps there is such a character, who also trains his staff to tell customers who want a drink to fuck off, etc., but if so he's definitely a bizarre fictional creation.


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## theartichoke

lentulax said:


> The bartenders wear white caps with anti-rape graphics.





lentulax said:


> There's not much evidence, literary or otherwise , of bar owners anywhere who let all their staff wear gear that gives out the message 'We're bad guys, and we're particularly nasty to women'.



I meant the former, not the latter, when I said "I'd be the first to concede if someone could find evidence of rape-themed hats (or badges, or T-shirts, etc.) being worn by the staff in New York bars." But I left it open, because there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus among the "hats with graphics" camp as to what the graphics would be, and I'd take evidence either way.


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## You little ripper!

I agree with rrose and MR on this one.


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## MR1492

lentulax said:


> The place tries to look smart , up-to-date and cool, but fails . The bartenders wear white caps with anti-rape graphics . These aren't offensive. On the site rrose linked to, there are thousands of items , all of them with right-on messages on them; there are literally more than a thousand with anti-rape slogans. These items are sold (see the onsite blurb) on the basis that they are 'cool' (which inevitably means that many will find them naff). It's quite possible that they're worn because the pub's owner (ok - I know he doesn't exist) was more interested in looking cool than preventing date-rape, but they're an obvious choice over, say, 'Hell for paedophiles'. Why not just translate 'white baseball caps with anti-date-rape slogans' - it's not the translator's job to explain cultural contexts , whether its hats, Yankee tattoos or Nautica gear. I can't see why anyone wearing a garment with a right-on message should fear a law-suit - in the UK, it's getting to the stage where you're more likely to risk a prosecution if you don't wear one.



I agree completely, lentulax.



theartichoke said:


> I meant the former, not the latter, when I said "I'd be the first to concede if someone could find evidence of rape-themed hats (or badges, or T-shirts, etc.) being worn by the staff in New York bars." But I left it open, because there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus among the "hats with graphics" camp as to what the graphics would be, and I'd take evidence either way.



I think the website provided by rrose gives us evidence that these types of hats are available. We don't need real world examples as this whole thing is from the mind of the author. He is postulating a scene in which this type of apparel is worn by the bartenders. My interpretation is that it is a uniform. 



You little ripper! said:


> I agree with rrose and MR on this one.



I agree with your agreement! 

Phil


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