# ما - قبل ما، بعد ما، أوّل ما



## ArabicStudent7

Hi everyone
I had a question on the use of ما
in sentences such as
قبل ما، بعد ما، اوّل ما
What purpose does it serve and what meaning does it give exactly?

Which situations do we use it in? (If used only at specific times..)


----------



## Arabic_Police_999

if I'm not wrong these example are taking from dialects not classical/modern Arabic

they function as ْأن in classical/modern Arabic


----------



## jack_1313

I can't comment on dialects, but in  MSA we can put ما after a ظرف مكان or as the last part of an إضافة structure if we are using it as a pronoun. In these cases, ما is usually followed by a verb that qualifies it. This is quite similar to the way we use "what" as a pronoun in English.

For example, 
بعد ما يسمى الربيع العربي = After the so-called Arab Spring (literally: what is called the Arab Spring)...
أول ما فعله = The first thing he did... (literally: the first of what he did)


----------



## Hemza

About dialects it's used as "what" as *jack_1313* said, like in "مثل/بحال ما قلت لك" ("as (what) I told you").


----------



## Arabic_Police_999

قبل أن تذهب إلى السوق is قبل ما تروح السوق  in my dialect
& we still use ما as *what* in my dialect


----------



## Hemza

Yes, I think it's the case for all dialects (your examples also apply to my dialects) it's just that I didn't know how to translate it into English . Thanks, you did for me ^^.


----------



## ArabicStudent7

Thank you for all your replies.

I'm still a little confused whether the ما is always necessary.

"بعد ما اخلص" After I finish
"بعد اخلص" After I finish....

In English it's simply "After I finish", not "After that I finish" or "After what I finish"

Could someone please clarify!


----------



## idquod

Arabic_Police_999 said:


> if I'm not wrong these example are taking from dialects not classical/modern Arabic
> 
> they function as ْأن in classical/modern Arabic


ألا يصح أن تُستعمل ما المصدرية بعد ظروف الزمن
"مثلا قول "ذهبت إلى الحديقة بعد ما قرأت الكتاب
"بمعنى "ذهبت إلى الحديقة بعد قراءتي الكتاب​


----------



## Sujon

Is this Maa called "Maa al-Masdariyyah ?"
We see Ba'da Maa in Quran, so it is Classical, not dialectical.

وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ بَعْدَمَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ وَلِيٍّ وَلَا وَاقٍ

_And if you should follow their inclinations after what has come to you of knowledge, you would not have against Allah any ally or any protector. [13:37]_


----------



## Sujon

ArabicStudent7 said:


> "بعد ما اخلص" After I finish
> "بعد اخلص" After I finish....



I am only a learner of Arabic. So my reply could be wrong. I think after Ba'da, we need a majruur (genitive) noun i.e., "After my finishing / after the end etc.". But if we want to use a verb, rather than noun, like "After I finish", then we need this Maa. So I think "بعد ما اخلص" is correct.

An example:




*Du'a when you wake up 
*​الْحَمْدُ للهِ الَّذِي أَحْيَانَا بَعْدَ مَا أَمَاتَنَا وَإِلَيْهِ النُّشُورُ
Alhamdu lillahil-ladhi 'ahyana ba'da ma   'amatana wa'ilayhin-nushur
Praise is to Allah Who gives us life after He   has caused us to die and to Him is the return. 
    Bukhari 11/113; Muslim 4/2083


----------



## Hemza

I think you can use a verb after "ما" (at the مضارع). At least, it's usable in this way in dialects and as far as I know, *Arabicstudent7*'s examples are correct


----------



## akhooha

Hemza said:


> I think you can use a verb after "ما" (at the مضارع). ...


 The verb can also be in the past tense.


----------



## Hemza

akhooha said:


> The verb can also be in the past tense.



True, thanks, I forgot


----------



## Hemza

ArabicStudent7 said:


> "بعد ما اخلص" After I finish
> "بعد اخلص" After I finish....


----------



## Arabic_Police_999

Sujon said:


> An example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Du'a when you wake up
> *​الْحَمْدُ للهِ الَّذِي أَحْيَانَا بَعْدَ مَا أَمَاتَنَا وَإِلَيْهِ النُّشُورُAlhamdu lillahil-ladhi 'ahyana ba'da ma   'amatana wa'ilayhin-nushurPraise is to Allah Who gives us life after He   has caused us to die and to Him is the return.
> Bukhari 11/113; Muslim 4/2083


1_If am not wrong the examples that were given were taken from dialects not MSA,

2_ the answer you gave answers the the thread in term of the etymology of ما of the dialect, so it may have more usage today
& as far as I know generally wherever there is أن in classical Arabic it would be ما in my dialect


----------



## akhooha

بعد ما is used in fuSHa as well: see Qur'an 2:109
وَدَّ كَثِيرٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ  لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُم مِّن بَعْدِ إِيمَانِكُمْ كُفَّارًا حَسَدًا مِّنْ  عِندِ أَنفُسِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ​


----------



## Ibn Nacer

Sujon said:


> Is this Maa called "Maa al-Masdariyyah ?"
> We see Ba'da Maa in Quran, so it is Classical, not dialectical.
> 
> وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ بَعْدَمَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ وَلِيٍّ وَلَا وَاقٍ
> 
> _And if you should follow their inclinations after what has come to you of knowledge, you would not have against Allah any ally or any protector. [13:37]_


In this case, I think it is ما الموصولية and not ما المصدرية. 

What do you think ?

Edit :

ا(وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْواءَهُمْ بَعْدَ ما جاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ) اللام موطئة لتقسم وان شرطية واتبعت فعل وفاعل وهو في محل جزم فعل الشرط وأهواءهم مفعول به وبعد ظرف متعلق باتبعت وما موصول مضاف اليه وجملة جاءك صلة ومن العلم حال.ا​
Source :  إعراب القرآن وبيانه


----------

