# Dutch: doen (other meaning?)



## olives

Dag,

Hier is een kort passage van een gesprek:
A : Doet u een klontje suiker in mijn kopje, alstublieft?

"Doen" means "Do". But it doesn't really make sense. Maybe it is something close to "zetten". Ik weet het niet.

Thank you, dank u
Goodbye. Tot ziens.


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## sound shift

This "doet u" means "would you please put".

I'm puzzled by the question mark, though.


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## olives

Join the club.

Actually, here we have "alstublieft". In my previous posts, I was talking about "maar" that kind of means "please" generally used in imperative sentences (I guess).

So I still wonder myself why we used "doen" here but now I also wonder myself whether we can use "alstublieft" or "maar" in this kind of imperative sentence whenever we please. I guess "maar" is more widespread than "alstublief/alsjeblief".

Anyways, thanks.


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## olives

I got it.

It's like English/French, 
there are some differences

"To have a break" => "Prendre/Faire une pause" (Prendre) => "take" but in English it would be "to have"

We just say 
"To have a coffee" (English) / "Doen een koffie" (Dutch) / "Prendre un café" (French)


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## John-Paul

olives said:


> Dag,
> 
> Hier is een kort passage van een gesprek:
> A : Doet u een klontje suiker in mijn kopje, alstublieft?



This is a very odd sentence. I can't think of an instance I would use this other than some crazy TV show where you would ask a stranger on the street to put a sugar cube in your cup.

If a situation like this would occur at grandma's I would say: 
Mag ik een klontje suiker in mijn thee alstublieft? 
May I please have some sugar in my tea? 

Perhaps it's a Dutch thing, but we generally don't demand from people to perform certain actions. Most people feel insulted if you'd tell them to do something.


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## John-Paul

olives said:


> I got it.
> 
> 
> "To have a coffee" (English) / "Doen een koffie" (Dutch) / "Prendre un café" (French)



Doen een koffie - almost. 

Slang: Effe een bakkie doen.


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## jippie

olives said:


> Join the club.
> 
> Actually, here we have "alstublieft". In my previous posts, I was talking about "maar" that kind of means "please" generally used in imperative sentences (I guess).
> 
> So I still wonder myself why we used "doen" here but now I also wonder myself whether we can use "alstublieft" or "maar" in this kind of imperative sentence whenever we please. I guess "maar" is more widespread than "alstublief/alsjeblief".
> 
> Anyways, thanks.


 
No,no,no, you really got confused here (or we explained it wrong  ). 

"Alstublieft" = please
"Maar" = but, but can also be used as a partikel and in that case it is either not translated, or translated according to the _intention_ of the sentence/ speaker. This is the case in the sentence: "gaat u maar zitten" = Sit down, please. 
"Gaat u alstublieft zitten" is not impossible to say, but has another meaning. It has a 'threathening' undertone in stead of a softening one, e.g. "please sit down because I have something terrible to tell you"
You can't conclude from these two cases that _alstublieft = maar._


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## olives

oh ok, sorry. Ik begrijpe. Dank je wel.


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## optimistique

olives said:


> I got it.
> 
> It's like English/French,
> there are some differences
> 
> "To have a break" => "Prendre/Faire une pause" (Prendre) => "take" but in English it would be "to have"
> 
> We just say
> "To have a coffee" (English) / "Doen een koffie" (Dutch) / "Prendre un café" (French)


 
No, this is not correct! "Prendre un café" translates literally as *"(een kopje) koffie nemen"* (Note the place of the verb!). 

The verb "doen" is used in relation with the preposition "in". The verb "_ergens __iets_* in doen*" (= iets _doen_ _in_ iets) = to *put *something *in* something/*mettre* qqc *dans* qqc. So: *put* a lump of sugar *in* my coffee, please.
I'm certain this is the cause of your confusion. 


As said before, you cannot replace "alstublieft" with "maar" without consequences, but I'm afraid I can't say anything about this particular case, because there is no context. It would be possible if this is the reaction to the question if that person wants some sugar in his coffee, though.

And finally, (to soundshift) there's nothing strange about the question mark. It's just because of "please", to indicate that it is a request, but probably especially, because please was said in an asking way.


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## Jeedade

Yes, but as John-Paul already stated, the phrase "een (kopje) koffie doen" is (a very colloquial) way of saying to have a cup of coffee.


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## optimistique

Jeedade said:


> Yes, but as John-Paul already stated, the phrase "een (kopje) koffie doen" is (a very colloquial) way of saying to have a cup of coffee.


 
You're not refering to a phrase like: "Doe mij maar een koffie", are you? Because that way you can "do" anything: "Doe mij maar een fiets voor mijn verjaardag".

Do you really say: "*Ik doe even een koffie.* Doe jij ook een koffie?" etc.
??????

In any way, that expression has nothing to do with the initial sentence.


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## Salmantina

To me it also seems weird saying "een koffie doen".  I would say instead of "Ik doe even een koffie. Doe jij ook een koffie?"
- Ik ga koffie zetten. Lust jij ook? (I´m going to make coffee. Do you want some?)
- Ik ga een kopje koffie drinken. Wil jij ook? (I´m going to have a cup of coffee. Do you want some)

And to get back to the original sentence, I totally agree with John-Paul. Another way to ask it would be: "Heeft u toevallig ook suiker?" (Do you have sugar, by any chance?)

Greetings


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## Jeedade

optimistique said:


> Do you really say: "*Ik doe even een koffie.* Doe jij ook een koffie?" etc.
> ??????
> In any way, that expression has nothing to do with the initial sentence.


Well, I don't use it myself (because I think it's a bit ugly), but what you hear a lot is "Zullen we een kopje koffie doen?" This might even be shortened to "Kopje koffie doen?" Again, this is very colloquial.
Maybe it is a west Netherlands / Holland thing, I don't know. You're right in saying it has nothing to do with the initial sentence.


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## Suehil

The verb is actually 'indoen' - to put in.  As with all Dutch compound verbs, the preposition is usually separated from the stem in a sentence.  (Ophalen, inhalen, uithalen, etc... "Ik haalde de vrachtwagen op de snelweg in"


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## John-Paul

Suehil said:


> The verb is actually 'indoen' - to put in. As with all Dutch compound verbs, the preposition is usually separated from the stem in a sentence. (Ophalen, inhalen, uithalen, etc... "Ik haalde de vrachtwagen op de snelweg in"


Nice try, but no. "Indoen" has a different meaning. You use "indoen" when you talk about how the other team was defeated. But it's not commonly used. There's no way you can put that verb in a sentence in which you ask for some sugar. The same with opdoen, aandoen, onderdoen, the compound has a different meaning. 'Opdoen' for instance means to learn, not 'to do on top of'.


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## Suehil

That was my point, 'doen' in combination with 'in' has a different meaning from 'doen' on its own.  It is one of the most difficult things when learning Dutch; preposition hunting to find out what the verb actually is.


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## Joannes

John-Paul said:


> Nice try, but no. "Indoen" has a different meaning. You use "indoen" when you talk about how the other team was defeated. But it's not commonly used. There's no way you can put that verb in a sentence in which you ask for some sugar. The same with opdoen, aandoen, onderdoen, the compound has a different meaning. 'Opdoen' for instance means to learn, not 'to do on top of'.


 
Where I live (Antwerp) you could use *doen* *+ preposition* in such a way, certainly in spoken language.

These examples are grammatical to me:
*Doet die dinges hier maar in.* 'Put that stuff in here, (please).'
(Remember the *maar*-should-sometimes-be-translated-as-'please' story, above.)

*Kunde gij dat deksel der is terug opdoen?* 'Could you put the cover back on, please.' 
(*Eens* (here: *is*) should sometimes be translated as 'please' too. )

I agree that resp. *insteken* and *opzetten* would fit better in the given contexts, at least in more formal language. My examples are truly dialectal; still, I think *indoen* and *opdoen* would make it into spoken (intended) Standard Dutch as well, here.



John-Paul said:


> You use "indoen" when you talk about how the other team was defeated.


 
I don't know *indoen* used like that. I would use *inmaken* (or rather *afdrogen*, but that's another story).


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## optimistique

Suehil said:


> The verb is actually 'indoen' - to put in.  As with all Dutch compound verbs, the preposition is usually separated from the stem in a sentence.  (Ophalen, inhalen, uithalen, etc... "Ik haalde de vrachtwagen op de snelweg in"



You're very close! It's not 'indoen', maar 'doen in'. That's a difference, because with 'indoen' you cannot have a complement for 'in' because it's already part of the verb, in other words you would get: *_*doe* een klontje suiker in mijn kopje *in*_. But I think you get the point of what's going on.


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## JanWillem

'Maar' (which has nothing to do with the "but" translation of maar) and 'eens' and are indeed two of some odd words that are used a lot in spoken Dutch. They can't really be translated into other languages as far as I know, but adding or not using them, or combinations of them, changes the 'atmosphere' in which something is said.

Ga weg. = Go away. (imperative, frustrated/angry)
Ga _eens_ weg. = Go away. (also imperative, but it can be used to friends or family without being angry)
Ga _maar_ weg. = It is okay that you go away.
Ga _maar eens_ weg. = If you go away now, then you'll see what will happen.
Ga _maar vast_ weg. = You can go now, I'll meet you later.

I know this is all a bit vague, but that is because no appropriate translations can be given, at least not by me.


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