# handsome (describing a woman)



## The Littlest Star

Hello, I'm translating a newspaper article from English into French.  The english sentence reads:

"Martine Franck opens the door, a _handsome, _elegant woman." 
I feel comfortable with the translation "...une femme belle,   élégante", but wondered if there was a word with the same subtle nuance as the english.

'Handsome' for a female face in English means a woman who is not 'beautiful' in a feminine, delicate way, but who has strong features or slight hint of masculinity which is nevertheless still enjoyable to look at.

Is it possible to work around it with: "ses traits forts mais beaux" or similar?

I'd be very interested to hear any responses.


----------



## Micia93

what about : "des traits masculins mais fort beaux" (here, "fort" is an adverb roughly meaning "very")

:=)


----------



## vanagreg

Hi,
maybe "une femme élégante aux faux airs virils"


----------



## Teafrog

Une femme d'une certaine beauté, élégante…? Une femme d'une forte beauté…?
Handsome


----------



## Moon Palace

I had come across _'a handsome woman'_ last year in a literary criticism, and I had raised the question in the EO Forum. From what I gather, it has nothing to do with masculine features. Hence, I would suggest simply to say _"une belle femme, _as the place of the adjective in front of the noun enhances its value.


----------



## Teafrog

Sorry, "belle femme" doesn't do it for me. Call a woman "handsome" in her face and she will not be too pleased  and might respond by "what do you mean by that", then you might have to think very very fast to rescue a delicate situation… 

I picked the following from here: Handsome (of a woman) Striking, impressive and elegantly proportioned, though not typically beautiful.
See here too: 5: having a pleasing and usually impressive or dignified appearance

A handsome woman, to me, is a woman with strong but beautiful features.
"Martine Franck opens the door, an _handsome, _elegant woman". I suggest: "… une femme élégante et d'une forte beauté"


----------



## Micia93

I'm sorry Teafrog, but "d'une forte beauté" doesn't really sound French 
when you say "strong features", what do you mean ? have you got an example with a famous actress for instance ?


----------



## cyberpedant

In my humble and obviously personal opinion, I would consider Glenn Close "handsome" and Emmanuelle Béart beautiful. Perhaps when Mlle. Béart has accumulated the years of Ms. Close, she will have attained "handsomeness."


----------



## Micia93

Could Sigourney Weaver be considered as a handsome woman ?


----------



## cyberpedant

_could Sigourney Weaver be considered as a handsome woman ?

_Quite so.


----------



## Zwibir1st

What about "d'une beauté androgyne" ?


----------



## Micia93

"androgyne" me semble être l'inverse : une personne filiforme, ni féminine, ni masculine comme son nom l'indique


----------



## Zwibir1st

Exact, merci Micia. J'ai dû mal comprendre, ou pas faire attention... désolée 

Androgyne doesn't fit.


----------



## casti

Why not speaking about her masculinity if handsome refers to that in English ? somethihg like

"une femme à la beauté masculine, élégante" ,
"une femme dont une certaine forme de masculinité émanait de la beauté, élégante, ...",
"une femme dont la beauté évoquait quelque chose de masculin, élégante, .." "une femme dont certains traits masculins n'étaient pas étrangers à sa beauté, élégante"

... ?


----------



## Micia93

that's what Vanagreg and I first suggested


----------



## breizhforever

Hi Littlest Star,

From above, I think you understood that you will not find one single word in French to translate handsome for a woman. It's up to you whether you want to really stress that nuance. But translating a small nuance with a bunch of words may be not the best solution.

If you go for the bunch of words, here are the shortest solution I can think about:
- "une femme d'une mâle beauté" (à la mâle beauté works as well).
- "une femme d'une beauté virile"

Regards,

Breizhforever


----------



## mally pense

For me, explicitly introducing an element of masculinity into the translation is a step too far. I'm not sure 'handsome' really does imply that, at least not in the way it's being discussed here, and it may be overinterpreting what the original author intended.


----------



## Micia93

what about : "une belle femme aux traits *énergiques*" ?

edit : or "une belle femme d'allure énergique" ?


----------



## Gil

Je pensais avoir trouvé, mais "d'une élégante robustesse" sert à qualifier des chiens, des whiskeys et des autos
alors je cherche encore


----------



## Micia93

c'est justement là le problème justement, car "handsome" s'applique aux hommes en général
:=)

edit : je répondais à Chrispa !


----------



## mally pense

Moon Palace said:


> I had come across _'a handsome woman'_ last year in a literary criticism, and I had raised the question in the EO Forum. From what I gather, it has nothing to do with masculine features. Hence, I would suggest simply to say _"une belle femme, _as the place of the adjective in front of the noun enhances its value.


 
In fact, this English Only discussion referred to by Moon Palace contains just about all that is relevant pertaining to the actual definition and usage of "handsome" for a woman, and I would agree it has nothing to do with masculine features. In fact, I would go further and say that to translate it as referring specifically to some sort of masculinity is deny that this sort of beauty (however it is defined) is somehow NOT a true facet of female beauty - which is of course ludicrous.

As to the translation into French, I can offer no advice other than what to avoid.


----------



## catay

mally pense said:


> For me, explicitly introducing an element of masculinity into the translation is a step too far. I'm not sure 'handsome' really does imply that, at least not in the way it's being discussed here, and it may be overinterpreting what the original author intended.


 
I agree. For me, handsome doesn't imply masculine traits in this context. I think the description is more akin to these definitions:

_"fine-looking: pleasing in appearance especially by reason of conformity to ideals of form and proportion; "a fine-looking woman"_
"_Pleasing and dignified in form or appearance_."


----------



## mgarizona

We speak of "a handsome garden," "a handsome room," etc. The other English word I would most associate it with is 'fetching.' As far as translations, I'd probably go with _charmant._ Something along the lines of _engageant_ or _accueillant_ that can refer to a person.


----------



## Teafrog

Micia93 said:


> I'm sorry Teafrog, but "d'une forte beauté" doesn't really sound french
> when you say "strong features", what do you mean ? have you got an example with a famous actress for instance ?


OK, let's forget "forte beauté" then (I was fishing ). Glenn Close has aready been mentioned, then there is also Grace Jones, of course 


Micia93 said:


> could Sigourney Weaver be considered as a handsome woman ?


Yes, definitely. I understand "handsome woman" as not being a raving beauty, in the strict sense of the word, but as having a certain sensual presence and attractiveness. Does that help? This might further assist to understand the English expression; see No 2

Let me throw another suggestion in the arena: une femme d'une beauté profonde (voir même, animale)?


----------



## mgarizona

I've been rather frustrated by the OED's seeming mum-ness on this usage, which is what sent me looking for other words that might help. Came across this in the similar 'comely':

_in modern use implying a lower or homelier style of personal beauty, which pleases but does not excite admiration*._

Anything French along those lines?

How about _avenante de figure_ ???

* - I'm assuming that by "admiration" they mean "lusts of the flesh."


----------



## JeanDeSponde

It seems obvious, to my French  eyes and ears, that a _handsome woman_ is a very subjective notion...!
So why not use the very subjective French _c'est une belle femme_?
For our foreign friends, this is quite different from _elle est belle_, or _c'est une beauté_. The use of _femme_ implies she can't be a Lolita - no handsome Lolita anyway... and _belle_, used this way, means (at least for me) _une certaine beauté. _Now use your imagination...


----------



## Rip

I should translate "a handsome, elegant woman" by "une très belle femme, très élégante" or "une femme très belle , très élégante"


----------



## elmingo

Bonjour,

Je rouvre cette discussion qui m'intéresse.
J'ai trouvé la description d'une femme qui impose une nuance pour "handsome":

"Prettiness. Elsa knew that was the crux of it. She was not an attractive woman. On her best day, in her best dress, a stranger *might say she was handsome*, but never more. She was too "everything" - too tall, too thin, too pale, too unsure of herself."

Je pense pour l'instant à "elle avait du charme", mais je me demande s'il n'y aurait pas mieux....

D'autres suggestions ? Merci !


----------



## Garoubet

D'après la phrase, on ne peut pas vraiment dire qu'elle _a du charme_. Peut être _mignone_.


----------



## Micia93

some more suggestions :
"elle a du chien" (not sure it will fit though)
"elle a un je ne sais quoi de troublant"
"elle a une beauté frappante"

then, what do you think?


----------



## elmingo

Peut-être "qu'elle avait une certaine beauté", sans vraie conviction...


----------



## joelooc

elle avait du caractère   ?


----------



## franc 91

Assez jolie, mais pas plus que ça - (suggestion) 

In the other examples above, I think handsome could mean 'belle' though it would probably come from older or regional dialect usage - a handsome young lass - for example. There might also be some confusion with the word - winsome - which is translated as - séduisante.


----------



## Micia93

_Assez jolie, mais pas plus que ça_

Je trouve ça un peu péjoratif, pour le coup 
Sigourney Weaver et Glenn Close ont été citées quand même! Est-ce qu'on pourrait dire, en parlant d'une femme, qu'elle a "une sacrée gueule"? voire "une gueule de cinéma"?


----------



## franc 91

C'était pour répondre à elmingo.


----------



## Topsie

Cette question a été débattu en long et en large et en travers ici : *a handsome woman?* 
Avec le recul, je crois que malheureusement il y aura toujours quelque chose de _lost in translation_, en outre le fait que "_handsome_" peut être percu/interprété différemment selon le côté de l'Atlantique où on se trouve!


----------



## DrD

I think it's not that the woman is necessarily masculine-looking (although masculine-looking women may be called handsome), but that she is pleasing to the eye, perhaps even striking, without having that girlish, feminine prettiness. It's a type of beauty, but not what you typically think of when you think of a beautiful woman.

In the end, I think something like _d'une certaine beauté _might be the closest you can get to expressing it in French (unless anyone thinks we could introduce the idea of _une beau femme_ to the French language?).


----------



## Locape

I agree with you, 'd'une certaine beauté' is probably the best option in the end, or adding a few adjectives with _beauté_, depending on what you want to convey. But I'm afraid 'une beau femme' would only sound like a spelling mistake.


----------



## DrD

I was only joking


----------



## elmingo

Merci pour vos avis, je crois que je vais m'en tenir à ça !


----------



## Laurent2018

On pourrait dire "pas mal" dans certains contextes familiers.
Comme le signalait teafrog au #6, une femme qualifiée de "pas mal" ferait sans doute aussi un sourire crispé...?


----------



## DrD

Hmm, but I don't agree with Teafrog that a woman would be offended if you called her handsome. If she was someone who thought of herself as pretty and that was important to her, then perhaps she might. I wouldn't mind if someone said I was handsome though (highly unlikely, as I don't have the right kind of features, but I wouldn't be at all offended). That said, looking at Elmingo's context above, 'pas mal' might be a good option, as the sense seems to be that she is not really handsome, but she looks nice enough in her best dress.


----------



## Kecha

May I suggest "d'une beauté atypique"? 

It's what comes to mind with the aforementioned Glenn Close, Sigourney Weaver, etc.: they are striking but not in the typical "cute/feminine/American beauty" kind of way. 
Anything with 'masculine' or 'virile' sounds _mean _to me, I would be offended if I was at the other end of that!

Although it might not help for elmingo's context... "too tall, too thin, too pale" seem to contradict the idea that handsome for women means good proportions, symmetry, grace, etc.

But I guess it depends on how you go with the preceeding "prettiness" and "attractive".

"La _beauté _(...) Elle n'était pas une femme _attirante _(...) qu'elle est _jolie_, mais pas plus." ?


----------



## moustic

elmingo said:


> On her best day, in her best dress, a stranger *might say she was handsome*,


In this context, perhaps: _un étranger aurait pu dire qu'elle avait de l'allure_... ??


----------



## misterk

Does it help at all to note that a "handsome" woman is usually a more mature woman?  (I can't imagine describing a 20- or 30-year-old woman as "handsome". Note, too, the examples cited above: Glenn Close, Sigourney Weaver.)  Perhaps something like "a woman of a mature elegance"?


----------



## DrD

I'd say that's often the case, but not always. I am old enough to remember when Sigourney Weaver was a 20-30-year-old woman, and I think I still would have described her as handsome then. For me, it's more about the features, and a woman who has those kind of features would always be handsome, even when young. Perhaps it's a type of beauty that tends to be recognised more as women grow older?


----------



## tartopom

une femme qui a du chien ???


----------



## Laurent2018

elmingo said:


> She was not an attractive woman



In the online Collins Dictionary, it reads:

-attractive woman
-and, apparently, with masculine features of beauty (wide and regular).

Bref, on n'est pas rendus


----------

