# ما فيش ولا فيش



## פפאיה

Hello everybody,

I hope that the title I wrote will be enough to receive many shocked replies  (or maybe not?)

I came across a very strange sentence. It was: مفيش حيا من غير امل ولا فيش امل من غير غنا.

I wanted to ask, specifically about the "ولا فيش" part - is it acceptable to use لا before فيش (which is supposed to be ما فيش)? Is it acceptable only in certain conditions? If it's not acceptable - why? Also - is it familiar only in certain dialects? 
I searched for some more examples and found things like:

1. النهارده يا قماعه مافيش سينما *ولا فيش *فيديو ولا فيش تصاميم.. فيش ألعاااااااب هيييييي

2. إنت وبس اللي حبيبي *ولا فيش *غيرك ع البال​ 
The first example is kind of like the first sentence I gave, but the second example is even weirder - looks like you can use لا before فيش just as you use ما before فيش. 
What do you Arabic speakers/learners think? I'm really nervous about it, and I'd be glad to hear your answers. ​


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## Ghabi

But ولا فيش should be separated as ولا + فيش  , with ولا as a whole meaning "neither", no?


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## azeid

You are right.
لا = ما here for negation and as I can recall now It always comes after the waw "حرف العطف فى اللغة العربية" like the examples you gave.
This is for the Egyptian dialect and I think it is also in Levantine ones.May be others can confirm.


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## פפאיה

Thanks for your quick answer.
But can you use it always, or just when you have a number of negations? Can you say لا فيش ... ولا فيش ... ولا فيش, or does it have to be ما فيش ... ولا فيش? And anyway - why isn't it just ما فيش ... وما فيش? Doesn't it sound better?


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## clevermizo

פפאיה said:


> Thanks for your quick answer.
> But can you use it always, or just when you have a number of negations? Can you say لا فيش ... ولا فيش ... ولا فيش, or does it have to be ما فيش ... ولا فيش? And anyway - why isn't it just ما فيش ... وما فيش? Doesn't it sound better?



You can use it if you have a string, and the first element can be لا فيش or ما فيش. At least with what I'm familiar with Syrian Arabic. In other words:

لا/ما في .... ولا في.... ولا .... إلخ.

As to why you don't use ما for the remaining elements - I guess you can't because ما can't have the meaning of "nor" and that's just the way it is. 

You can also use it with verbs proper: لا بحبه ولا بكرهه (I neither love it nor hate it). 

Basically you use this sequence whenever you have "neither X nor Y nor Z nor A &c."



> مفيش حيا من غير امل ولا فيش امل من غير غنا.


In this case you have: "There is neither life without hope, nor hope without wealth**".
(** Or "singing" depending on how it's vowelized.)



פפאיה said:


> 2. إنت وبس اللي حبيبي *ولا فيش *غيرك ع البال​



In this case ولا is an emphatic negator: it means _there is *no other* (besides) you on (my) mind_. So it's just a stronger way of negating.


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## פפאיה

Hi,



clevermizo said:


> As to why you don't use ما for the remaining elements - I guess you can't because ما can't have the meaning of "nor" and that's just the way it is.
> 
> You can also use it with verbs proper: لا بحبه ولا بكرهه (I neither love it nor hate it).


 
But can't you also say "ما باحبه وما باكرهه" with just the same meaning of neither... nor, just as you say: "مش جوة ومش برة"? And can't you in both cases change the second negation word / both of them into لا? 



clevermizo said:


> In this case ولا is an emphatic negator: it means _there is *no other* (besides) you on (my) mind_. So it's just a stronger way of negating.


 
This makes sense. But I still wonder - to me it seems as if you can switch the ولا back into وما, and it will still be the same meaning - maybe a little less emphasized, but the same.
I just can't get how you use فيش after ولا - it feels like double negation, where it's not needed. I'm confused... 



azeid said:


> You are right.
> لا = ما here for negation and as I can recall now It always comes after the waw "حرف العطف فى اللغة العربية" like the examples you gave.
> This is for the Egyptian dialect and I think it is also in Levantine ones.May be others can confirm.


 
Do you mean you can use لا فيش just like ما فيش, in sentences like: "لا فيش اي حاجة"? Or does it have to be part of a negation sentence, with several negation parts?


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## clevermizo

פפאיה said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> But can't you also say "ما باحبه وما باكرهه" with just the same meaning of neither... nor,



No, not as I learned it. But it may also occur. I learned that to say "I don't love it and I don't hate it" or "I neither love it nor hate it" I say "لا بحبه ولا بكرهه". I can't say anything about the idiomatic nature of "ما بحبه وما بكرهه".



> just as you say: "مش جوة ومش برة"? And can't you in both cases change the second negation word / both of them into لا?


Actually I learned to say لا ... ولا even for nouns. In this case "لا جوا ولا برا". But your sentence may also occur, and I'm sure it depends on dialect/region. For example, الطقس اليوم - لا شوب ولا برد (The weather today isn't hot and isn't cold).



> This makes sense. But I still wonder - to me it seems as if you can switch the ولا back into وما, and it will still be the same meaning - maybe a little less emphasized, but the same.
> I just can't get how you use فيش after ولا - it feels like double negation, where it's not needed. I'm confused...


It's double negation _anyway_ whether you say وما فيش or ولا فيش. Both ما and لا are negating words. 




> Do you mean you can use لا فيش just like ما فيش, in sentences like: "لا فيش اي حاجة"? Or does it have to be part of a negation sentence, with several negation parts?


As I said, as I learned it, it has to be part of a _series_ of negated terms. "Not this, and not this, and not this, and not this" and then the negative particle is لا everywhere. If you just have one term, then you would just used ما. Again, I'm sure there is variation, but this is what I learned with reference to Shaami Arabic.

By the way, لا.... ولا is the "Neither .... nor" structure. The "Either .... or " structure is "يا .... يا" . "Either you love it or you hate it": يا بتحبه يا بتكرهه.

For what it's worth, just on Google, I wasn't able to find ما بحبه وما بكرهه but I did find لا بحبه ولا بكرهه. The latter (لا بحبه ولا بكرهه) was written by a Palestinian user, discussing Tamer Hosny.


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## פפאיה

clevermizo said:


> It's double negation _anyway_ whether you say وما فيش or ولا فيش. Both ما and لا are negating words.


 
But!! ما فيش is not double negation - that's just how you say it (ma + sh). فيش is the shorter form of ما فيش. The reason I think it's double is because لا فيش =? لا ما فيش. This is what bothers me. 



clevermizo said:


> As I said, as I learned it, it has to be part of a _series_ of negated terms. "Not this, and not this, and not this, and not this" and then the negative particle is لا everywhere. If you just have one term, then you would just used ما. Again, I'm sure there is variation, but this is what I learned with reference to Shaami Arabic.


 
Ok, I'll focus my question: I know for a rule (?) that فيش, being a form usually negated by ما, can't follow لا. So - you say it _is_ possible to negate it this way, because it is a part of a series? I know the negated series rule, it's just the لا فيش that confounded me.
What I'm troubled about, is the theory on the paper versus what people actually say - I asked a native speaker, and he said this seems very strange to him (the ولا فيش امل sentence). So I was wondering if it was just him or not.

I appreciate your answers, and thanks for all the patience...


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## Ghabi

פפאיה said:


> But!! ما فيش is not double negation - that's just how you say it (ma + sh). فيش is the shorter form of ما فيش. The reason I think it's double is because لا فيش =? لا ما فيش. This is what bothers me.


ولا فيش=ولا ما فيش
ولا is a set phrase, you can't just break it down to suit your argument (well, I consider that a rather impolite act, and I guess the phrase itself would feel rather unhappy.)



> Ok, I'll focus my question: I know for a rule (?) that فيش, being a form usually negated by ما...


What you say is like: _il y a pas_ is a form usually negated by _ne_. I don't know if it makes sense to any French speaker. Also, you just said above that "فيش is the shorter form of ما فيش".


> I know the negated series rule, it's just the لا فيش that confounded me.


There's no لا فيش, there's only ولا فيش.


> I asked a native speaker, and he said this seems very strange to him (the ولا فيش امل sentence). So I was wondering if it was just him or not.


Perhaps just him. But our native colleagues know better.


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## clevermizo

פפאיה said:


> But!! ما فيش is not double negation - that's just how you say it (ma + sh). فيش is the shorter form of ما فيش. The reason I think it's double is because لا فيش =? لا ما فيش. This is what bothers me.



Ok, I see what you mean. Well, I'm used to a dialect that doesn't have this ـــــش so I'm not sure. But maybe you could just understand it as exchanging ما for لا when part of a series and not as ولا ما فيش. Besides what's wrong with double negation? We do it in Spanish all the time.  Or maybe you should just understand ولا as an emphatic "not (even)" particle to stress that this other thing definitely ما فيش.



> Ok, I'll focus my question: I know for a rule (?) that فيش, being a form usually negated by ما, can't follow لا. So - you say it _is_ possible to negate it this way, because it is a part of a series?


Yes, and in Shaami Arabic this is the normal thing to do - to use لا when part of a series.



> What I'm troubled about, is the theory on the paper versus what people actually say - I asked a native speaker, and he said this seems very strange to him (the ولا فيش امل sentence). So I was wondering if it was just him or not.


A native speaker of what dialect? The same dialect as the person that wrote the original sentence that caused confusion? And if this sounded weird, what would he say instead?




Ghabi said:


> What you say is like: _il y a pas_ is a form usually negated by _ne_. I don't know if it makes sense to any French speaker.



Off topic, but it does. L'Y a pas, j'sais pas are normal colloquial contractions, without using _ne_.


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## azeid

I will talk at least about the Egyptian dialect.



Ghabi said:


> ولا فيش=ولا ما فيش
> ولا is a set phrase, you can't just break it down to suit your argument (well, I consider that a rather impolite act, and I guess the phrase itself would feel rather unhappy.)
> 
> Also, you just said above that "فيش is the shorter form of ما فيش".
> There's no لا فيش, there's only ولا فيش.
> Perhaps just him. But our native colleagues know better.


 و لا مافيش doesn't make sense for me.What bothers me here is the Waw "واو حرف العطف"
For لا ما فيش it self, It is a double negation لا and ما to express  stronger negation.
EX:
فلان : مالك شكلك متضايق
علان: لا مافيش أنا كويس

Regarding  ولا فيش, It should come after the Waw (As Ghabi said there is no لا فيش alone) and for a rule it should come as a part of negation series like clevermizo said but it may be used in beginning of phrase and in this case I will say that the المعطوف عليه محذوف تقديراً .
Ex.
أب يوبخ ابنه على شىء خطأ فعله فبيقوله
و لا فيش أدب و لا أخلاق و لا تربية


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## Ghabi

clevermizo said:


> Off topic, but it does. L'Y a pas, j'sais pas are normal colloquial contractions, without using _ne_.


I'm aware of this, but it sounds very weird to me to say that "_il y a pas_ is a form usually negated by _ne_". The logic doesn't sound right. I would just say _y'a pas_ is the short form of _il n'y a pas_.

Anyway, the underlying argument of this thread sounds strange to me (even the title of the thread doesn't sound valid to me, because there's no *لا فيش). Perhaps it's just me.


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## פפאיה

Ghabi said:


> Anyway, the underlying argument of this thread sounds strange to me (even the title of the thread doesn't sound valid to me, because there's no *لا فيش). Perhaps it's just me.


 
Well, as I said - 



פפאיה said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I hope that the title I wrote will be enough to receive many shocked replies  (or maybe not?)


 

It's strange for me as well!



Ghabi said:


> ولا فيش=ولا ما فيش
> ولا is a set phrase, you can't just break it down to suit your argument (well, I consider that a rather impolite act, and I guess the phrase itself would feel rather unhappy.)


 
What do you mean by "set phrase"? Do you mean it's like the "ولا" as in "ولا واحد" or "ولا مهما", which comes to emphasize? Because I thought that the wala here is just a negation particle, simply meaning "not" or "nor".



clevermizo said:


> A native speaker of what dialect? The same dialect as the person that wrote the original sentence that caused confusion? And if this sounded weird, what would he say instead?


 
I guess the Palestinian dialect, though he knows a bit about Egyptian as well. He said he'd just use ما فيش for both parts of the sentence, or maybe even "ولا في". 



azeid said:


> EX:
> فلان : مالك شكلك متضايق
> علان: لا مافيش أنا كويس


 
But here, wouldn't it be لا, ما فيش... with no connection between "لا" and "ما فيش"?

Well... My conclusions so far are that it's possible to say "ولا فيش" only as a part of a series of negations, with a possibility of "ولا" as an emphasizing particle - even though it does smell a bit. And you definitely can't say "لا فيش" just like that.

Thanks for your answers so far!


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## elroy

Hi guys,

In Palestinian Arabic, ولا فش (we say فش and not فيش) would be wrong.  It has to be ولا في.

You can say ما في or ما فش for "there is not," but you can't say لا فش, unless that's what you literally mean - for example, لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل (lit. "There is neither no money, nor is there no brain").

The fact that فيش and not فش is used in the sentences in the first post leads me to suspect that they were written in a dialect other than Palestinian.


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## shining_star24

elroy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> In Palestinian Arabic, ولا فش (we say فش and not فيش) would be wrong.  It has to be ولا في.
> 
> You can say ما في or ما فش for "there is not," but you can't say لا فش, unless that's what you literally mean - for example, لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل (lit. "There is neither no money, nor is there no brain").
> 
> The fact that فيش and not فش is used in the sentences in the first post leads me to suspect that they were written in a dialect other than Palestinian.



Hi Guys, 

Concerning Palestinian dialect, as Elory said we don't use the construction: لا فش  instead we can say: لا في
 فش means there is not, If we add the لا before it, it means the opposite but still this term is considered wrong! we can say : لا في مصاري ولا في عقل because في means there is so adding لا to the sentence means '' there is not". However, you can use فش only to mean the same thing so we can say: 
فش مصاري وفش عقل


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## elroy

BUT لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل is _technically_ possible.

For example,

ليش هالزلمة مش عارف يدبر حاله؟  لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل.  شو المشكلة؟

Granted, it would be more common to say لا ناقصه مصاري ولا ناقصه عقل, but the other construction is possible in theory.


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## shining_star24

elroy said:


> BUT لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل is _technically_ possible.
> 
> For example,
> 
> ليش هالزلمة مش عارف يدبر حاله؟  لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل.  شو المشكلة؟
> 
> Granted, it would be more common to say لا ناقصه مصاري ولا ناقصه عقل, but the other construction is possible in theory.



Elory! Maybe it is correct in theory but it still for me incorrect to say this in Palestinian dialect at least! we don't say it this way Elory! 

For your example, I would rather say: 

ليش هالزلمة مش عارف يدبر حاله؟  لا بدو مصاري ولا بدو عقل.  شو المشكلة؟

or simply as you said using ناقصه.

لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل sounds strange for me!


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## elroy

Yes, it sounds strange to me too, but it's not incorrect.  I never said that it was common or anything.

Anyway, the point was that you can't say لا فش when you mean لا في; the two are opposites.


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## פפאיה

elroy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> In Palestinian Arabic, ولا فش (we say فش and not فيش) would be wrong. It has to be ولا في.
> 
> You can say ما في or ما فش for "there is not," but you can't say لا فش, unless that's what you literally mean - for example, لا فش مصاري ولا فش عقل (lit. "There is neither no money, nor is there no brain").
> 
> The fact that فيش and not فش is used in the sentences in the first post leads me to suspect that they were written in a dialect other than Palestinian.


 
Hello! Thank you very much for your answer, elroy. I have a few questions.

First of all, it seems strange to me that there is such a big difference between فش and فيش, that you actually write them differently. 

Second of all - 

a. When you say that there _is _ولا في in PA - do you mean it exists only as a part of double negation, or can it also be used in one-part negation sentences, such as "ولا في حدا في الغرفة"?

b. If ولا _can_ be used in such sentences, would you say that ولا gives the sentence a different meaning than a sentence like "ما في حدا الغرفة"? That it negates the sentence more strongly - "there is *absolutely* no one in the room"?

c. Can you use this ولا with other pseudo-verbs like مع, عند, بد? For instance - ولا بدي اجي اليوم - I *really* don't want to come today, ولا معي فلوس - I haven't got a *single* penny (or would it be better to say ولا فلوس معي?), etc. 

Third of all - About the ش at the end: I have seen some examples of ولا بديش, ولا عنديش, and also ولا جاش, ولا فكرتش. I have read somewhere in a previous thread that in the Egyptian dialect, it is not-impossible to say ولا + ش , but that it wasn't very common. I wonder whether it really is Egyptian, can it actually be heard, and why does it happen.


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## elroy

פפאיה said:


> First of all, it seems strange to me that there is such a big difference between فش and فيش, that you actually write them differently.


 Well, they are pronounced differently.  In Palestinian Arabic, we say "fish" and not "fiish," so I would not spell it with a ي. 

As for ولا - yes, it can be used without a preceding لا, and yes, in such cases it intensifies the statement.  And yes, it can be used with مع, عند, etc.

However, it's no just a general intensifier; its uses are more specific than that.  ولا في حدا في الغرفة works if you want to say "There's no one _at all_ in the room," but ولا بدي آجي اليوم cannot be used to mean "I really don't want to come today."  ولا is used in "stronger" statements - for example:

أنا بقول إحكي معاه - I say you should talk to him.
شو أحكي معاه؟  ولا بدي أشوفو! - What do you mean "talk to him"?  I don't even want to see him!

ولا بدي آجي اليوم could be used in a similar context, to mean "I don't even want to come today."

ولا معي فلوس/مصاري (the most common word for "money" is مصاري) sounds strange.  For "I don't even have any money" I would say ولا *حتى *معي مصاري (you can use حتى in the other examples, too, but in this particular case I wouldn't drop it).

"I don't have any money at all" would be معيش مصاري بالمرة.  You could also say معيش ولا تعريفة (which is the equivalent of "I don't have a dime.")

[You definitely wouldn't say ولا فلوس/مصاري معي.)


> I have seen some examples of ولا بديش, ولا عنديش, and also ولا جاش, ولا فكرتش. I have read somewhere in a previous thread that in the Egyptian dialect, it is not-impossible to say ولا + ش , but that it wasn't very common. I wonder whether it really is Egyptian, can it actually be heard, and why does it happen.


 A speaker of Egyptian will have to answer this question.  All I can tell you is that in Palestinian Arabic, that construction doesn't work as a "double negative with a single-negative meaning."


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## פפאיה

elroy said:


> However, it's no just a general intensifier; its uses are more specific than that. ولا في حدا في الغرفة works if you want to say "There's no one _at all_ in the room," but ولا بدي آجي اليوم cannot be used to mean "I really don't want to come today." ولا is used in "stronger" statements - for example:
> 
> أنا بقول إحكي معاه - I say you should talk to him.
> شو أحكي معاه؟ ولا بدي أشوفو! - What do you mean "talk to him"? I don't even want to see him!
> 
> ولا بدي آجي اليوم could be used in a similar context, to mean "I don't even want to come today."


 
Yesh! What a good answer.

Ok - so to say "I really don't want to come today, you wouldn't use ولا, but something different like "بديش اجي اليوم بالمرة"?
ولا would be used here as "not even" (אפילו לא), right? Meaning that there has to be something previous, like in the example you gave (reminds me of double negation a bit).

I've seen sentences like: "ولا شفت حدا" - where there's a verb coming after ولا. 
a. Are they more like "ولا في حدا هون" - "there's no one here _at all_", or do they have the meaning of "not even"? 
b. I know you can also say "ما شفت ولا حدا" - is there a difference between this sentence and "ولا شفت حدا"?



elroy said:


> ولا معي فلوس/مصاري (the most common word for "money" is مصاري) sounds strange. For "I don't even have any money" I would say ولا *حتى *معي مصاري (you can use حتى in the other examples, too, but in this particular case I wouldn't drop it).
> 
> "I don't have any money at all" would be معيش مصاري بالمرة. You could also say معيش ولا تعريفة (which is the equivalent of "I don't have a dime.")
> 
> [You definitely wouldn't say ولا فلوس/مصاري معي.)


 
Is حتى used here to intensify the meaning of "even", like in "حتى ولو"? 
And why wouldn't you say "ولا فلوس/مصاري معي"?

Thanks again!


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## פפאיה

Hi again, 
I've just thought about something else, concerning the ش at the end: 

I've seen sentences like: "مش بديش اجي اليوم..." - "it's not that I don't want to come today, ...".
مش doesn't negate verbs/pseudo-verbs, right? definitely not with ش at the end. But in sentences like the one above, مش negates the sentence as a whole, not just بديش. So I was wondering - would it be possible to use (and make it sound good as well) sentences like: "ولا بديش اجي اليوم" meaning: "It's not even that I don't want to come today! it's just that..." or would you use here something less elaborate?


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## elroy

פפאיה said:


> Ok - so to say "I really don't want to come today, you wouldn't use ولا, but something different like " بديش اجي اليوم بالمرة"?


 I might say بالمرة مش جاي عبالي آجي اليوم.

بديش آجي بالمرة اليوم would mean "I don't want to come today _at all_" (i.e. "I don't even want to come for five minutes; I don't want to come at all").



> ولا would be used here as "not even" (אפילו לא), right? Meaning that there has to be something previous, like in the example you gave (reminds me of double negation a bit).


 Yes, although I have a feeling you're not using the term "double negation" correctly.  ولا بدي شاي ولا بدي قهوة is not an example of "double negation."  Double negation occurs when _the same action/state_ is negated twice (even though in some languages the meaning expressed is still that of a single negative). An example from Hebrew would be *אף *פעם *לא *ראיתי אותו. 





> I've seen sentences like: "ولا شفت حدا" - where there's a verb coming after ولا.
> a. Are they more like "ولا في حدا هون" - "there's no one here _at all_", or do they have the meaning of "not even"?


 The former.


> b. I know you can also say "ما شفت ولا حدا" - is there a difference between this sentence and "ولا شفت حدا"?


 Yes.

Unless you somehow stress ولا, the first one is neutral: "I did not see anyone."  By the way, this is an example of a double negative, which would also be found in Hebrew (לא ראיתי אף אחד).  In Arabic, however, you can also say ما شفت حدا.

The second one means "I did not see anyone _at all_."


> Is حتى used here to intensify the meaning of "even", like in "حتى ولو"?


 حتى _is_ the word for "even," in both my example and yours.  It's just that sometimes - but not always - you can drop it and still express the same meaning.


> And why wouldn't you say "ولا فلوس/مصاري معي"?


 Because it's wrong.   Why wouldn't you say אין בכלל לי כסף?


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## elroy

> So I was wondering - would it be possible to use (and make it sound good as well) sentences like: "ولا بديش اجي اليوم" meaning: "It's not even that I don't want to come today! it's just that..." or would you use here something less elaborate?


 You could use that sentence if you had another ولا - for example, ولا بديش آجي اليوم، ولا بديش آجي بكرة.  Note, however, that in this case there is no "even" implied.


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## פפאיה

elroy said:


> You could use that sentence if you had another ولا - for example, ولا بديش آجي اليوم، ولا بديش آجي بكرة. Note, however, that in this case there is no "even" implied.


 
So this sentence would mean: "it's not that I don't want to come today, and it's not that I don't want to come tomorrow, ..."?


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## elroy

פפאיה said:


> So this sentence would mean: "it's not that I don't want to come today, and it's not that I don't want to come tomorrow, ..."?


 Yes.


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## פפאיה

Now I understand. 
Negation is an interesting subject in PA - so many types of them! like mushrooms.
Thanks a lot, elroy. It's worth waiting a long time for satisfying answers.


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## Zuze

Hi there! I'm sorry for waking up this thread, but I haven't been here for a very long time, and I was so excited to find a discussion concerning negation in PA!

Two interesting things I wanted to share with you:

1) Elroy mentioned the sentence *אף* פעם *לא* ראיתי אותו as an example of two negations of the same action. I think that although *אף *sometimes seems to be used for negation, it's original meaning is actually "even" (and not "not even", even though it carries a feeling of negation, because it occures mostly (only?) in negation-context). Therefore, the sentence above could be understood as "I have*n't* seen him *even once*", in which case there is only one negation.

2) Elroy also gave an interesting examply of ولا  in a sentence:
شو أحكي معاه؟ ولا بدي أشوفو! - What do you mean "talk to him"? I don't even want to see him!
It seems to me that in the deeper structure of this sentence we can find a series of negations, such as we would expect to see ولا appear in: شو أحكي معاه؟ ما بدي أحكي معه ولا بدي أشوفو!


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## פפאיה

Hello, 

It's been a while, but after some more thinking, I've come up with some further questions I wanted to ask on the subject of ولا. 
Yosh, let us begin:

1. In a series of negations: is it correct to say, for example: انت لا قدام عيوني, ولا بدي اشوفك? if not, why?

2. Pronunciation - 

a. Concerning sentences like "ولا فيه حدا في الغرقة", not in a series of negations: how do you pronounce ولا? is it و*لا* or *و*لا? is there a difference? 
b. Concerning ما شفت ولا حدا as opposed to ولا شفت حدا: how would you stress ولا in the first sentence, so that the meaning would be intensified?

3. Back to ولا meaning "not even": 

a. Why is there a difference between "ولا فيه حدا هون", meaning "there's no one here _at all, _and between "ولا بدي اشوفه" - I _don't even _want to see him? when does ولا mean "at all" / "really" / "absolutely", and when does it mean "not even"?
b. For example, why does ولا بدي احكي معاه means "I _don't even_ want to speak to him" and not "I _really_ don't want to speak to him"?
c. Does ولا only mean "not even" in very certain situations, or can it be used more generally as well? for instance, can you say هذا الرجل - ولا بدي احكي معاه - "this man - I don't even want to speak to him"?

4. I've already asked about the difference between ولا شفت واحد and ما شفت ولا واحد - but another nuance: would you say that there is a difference between ما معي ولا ليرة and ما شفت ولا حدا? would the former be neutral as well (wouldn't it also be a kind of "not even" - אין לי *ולו* גרוש אחד)?

I think that's about it. I know it's a bit nagging... So thanks a lot for the patience and answers.


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## elroy

פפאיה said:


> 1. In a series of negations: is it correct to say, for example: انت لا قدام عيوني, ولا بدي اشوفك?


 I would tend to use لا...ولا with grammatically similar items (for example: إنت لا بتفهم ولا بتعقل or الوراء لا بالصالون ولا بالمطبخ), but I think your sentence would work if that's what you wanted to say. 





> a. Concerning sentences like "ولا فيه حدا في الغرقة", not in a series of negations: how do you pronounce ولا? is it و*لا* or *و*لا? is there a difference?


 It's always *و*لا.


> b. Concerning ما شفت ولا حدا as opposed to ولا شفت حدا: how would you stress ولا in the first sentence, so that the meaning would be intensified?


 Again, it's always *و*لا.


> a. Why is there a difference between "ولا فيه حدا هون", meaning "there's no one here _at all, _and between "ولا بدي اشوفه" - I _don't even _want to see him?


 Well, the meanings are actually related.  "There's no one _at all_" means "There's _not even_ one person."


> when does ولا mean "at all" / "really" / "absolutely", and when does it mean "not even"?


 It's usually "not even."  It often means "at all" when there's some type of absolute negative ("nothing," "nowhere," etc.)  For example,

ولا بروح محل  - He doesn't go anywhere (at all).
ولا بوكل إشي - He doesn't eat anything (at all).



> b. For example, why does ولا بدي احكي معاه means "I _don't even_ want to speak to him" and not "I _really_ don't want to speak to him"?


 See above.


> c. Does ولا only mean "not even" in very certain situations, or can it be used more generally as well? for instance, can you say هذا الرجل - ولا بدي احكي معاه - "this man - I don't even want to speak to him"?


 It's هدا الزلمة, but yes, you could use it that way.



> 4. I've already asked about the difference between ولا شفت واحد and ما شفت ولا واحد -


 It's ولا شفت *حدا*.  In the second sentence, you can use حدا or واحد.


> would you say that there is a difference between ما معي ولا ليرة and ما شفت ولا حدا? would the former be neutral as well (wouldn't it also be a kind of "not even" - אין לי *ולו* גרוש אחד)?


 Well, the former is emphatic because of the specific choice of words.  The neutral sentence would be ما معي/معيش/فش معي مصاري.  But when you say ولا ليرة/ولا تعريفة the sentence is automatically emphatic.  But in most contexts, ما معي ولا is neutral (like אין לי אף).


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## פפאיה

ألف شكر.


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## Timmy123

Isn't it more natural in EA to sayy مافيش لا اخلاق ولا ادب?


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## Lark-lover

Timmy123 said:


> Isn't it more natural in EA to sayy مافيش لا اخلاق ولا ادب?


I feel it like مافيش أخلاق ولا أدب .Notice that the L-negation is dropped but wait for my comment to be confirmed by an Egyptian native, Timmy.


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## Timmy123

Or surely it should be لا في دي ولا في ده which would be more common than any kind of la-feesh construction?


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## cherine

Lark-lover said:


> I feel it like مافيش أخلاق ولا أدب .Notice that the L-negation is dropped but wait for my comment to be confirmed by an Egyptian native, Timmy.


Correct. We don't need the first laa.



Timmy123 said:


> Or surely it should be لا في دي ولا في ده which would be more common than any kind of la-feesh construction?


Yes, ولافيش is not common in Egyptian Arabic.


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## إسكندراني

Timmy123 said:


> Or surely it should be لا في دي ولا في ده which would be more common than any kind of la-feesh construction?


Yes, I prefer لا في أخلاق ولا في أدب


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