# Dialect most useful for understanding Arabic in other places



## jjanke

in your opinion, what country's colloquial dialect is most useful for understanding arabic in other places? I am applying to study abroad during the summer, and would like to know your opinions about which dialect would be most beneficial for all the arabic world. since this is my only chance, I would like to make the best of it! 
right now I study MSA, so if I knew MSA and, for example, Egyptian, would I be better off than if I knew MSA and Lebanese? or Yemeni? Thank you!!!


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## alahay

I know MSA (Modern Standard Arabic?) and Lebanese and have no  problem understanding other dialects except for the moroccan, yet they can speak a more understandable dialect and we can communicate very well! (or we can speak french)

The Yemeni is the closest to MSA so it would be easiest to learn yet it might not help you understand much of the other arabic dialects.

Good Luck!

P.S. If you go to lebanon I recommend "The American University of Beirut"


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## elroy

Here is a related thread.


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## cherine

To my knowledge, the most common Arabic colloquials are Egyptian and Lebanese, if you speak any of them you'll be easily understood in any Arabic country you may visit. The problem will be of not understanding the others  but unfortunately that's a problem we can't solve, unless of course all Arabs decide to speak Standard Arabic, which be great


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## elroy

If you say Lebanese would be understood everywhere, then so would Palestinian, Jordanian, and Syrian - right?  While distinguishable, they are mutually intelligible with very few exceptions.


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## alahay

elroy said:
			
		

> If you say Lebanese would be understood everywhere, then so would Palestinian, Jordanian, and Syrian - right?  While distinguishable, they are mutually intelligible with very few exceptions.


I'm sure she was referring to the levantine vernacular (lebanese, palestinian, jordanian and syrian) when she said "lebanese", however she used "lebanese" and "egyptian" to reply to the  first question in which only three dialects were specified!


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## elroy

alahay said:
			
		

> I'm sure she was referring to the levantine vernacular (lebanese, palestinian, jordanian and syrian) when she said "lebanese", however she used "lebanese" and "egyptian" to reply to the first question in which only three dialects were specified!


 
That's true, but I understood them as random examples:



			
				jjanke said:
			
		

> in your opinion, *what country's colloquial dialect is most useful for understanding arabic in other places?* I am applying to study abroad during the summer, and would like to know your opinions about *which dialect would be most beneficial for all the arabic world*. since this is my only chance, I would like to make the best of it!
> right now I study MSA, so if I knew MSA and,* for example*, Egyptian, would I be better off than if I knew MSA and Lebanese? or Yemeni? Thank you!!!


 
I'm pretty sure jjanke's question was about all the dialects, and not a comparison between the particular three she happened to mention.  But I guess we'll have to wait for jjanke to come back and confirm.


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## jjanke

elroy is right, those were just examples. I don't know how many grouping there are! I was just wondering if there was one that would be understood throughout the largest area, or help me understand Arabic in the largest area. thanks!


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## DaleC

I think the short answer is that it should make little difference whether you go to Beirut or Cairo, and you should choose based on academic offerings, accommodations, urban entertainment, and safety. 

Your question is discussed at length in a chapter of a brand new book,  *Pop culture Arab world! : media, arts, and lifestyle*, by Andrew Hammond, 2005. It's part of a series, Pop Culture. You will probably find this book indispensable preparation your trip. The book's assessment of the language question points out that Egyptian television has changed the situation in the last 20 years. During this time, Egyptian television, particularly "soap operas", have become syndicated throughout the Arabic speaking world. For this reason, more Arabs are familiar with the Egyptian accent than ever before, and more familiar with Egyptian by far than any other Arabic. Egyptian vocabulary, too, is diffusing. 

You may also be interested in the chapter on dialects in Modern Arabic: structures, function, and varieties, by Clive Holes; revised edition, 2004. (I have my own copy.) This is a survey for somebody intended for linguists, but any serious student of Arabic probably can benefit from it. In fact, the entire book is organized to compare MSA with spoken Arabic. It is heavily concerned with how Arabs shuttle between MSA and their native dialect. I can't imagine anyone in your position would fail to enjoy Holes' writing. 

There are about three dozen distinct spoken Arabic languages or dialects. Of course, the vast majority of Arabic speakers speak one of about only half a dozen. 

Your question is often asked. But realistically, it's an idle question for most learners. Unless you really master the spoken dialect you start with, you won't be able to understand most other dialects. Besides, you will not need to. It seems to me if you stay in Egypt, 95 percent of your acquaintances will be Egyptians. And you will have your hands full with learning two distinct languages, MSA and Egyptian or Levantine. Unless you are a real language learning prodigy. . . . 

On the other hand, book after book reports that Egyptian and Levantine are really quite mutually intelligible -- to the natives at least. _Levant_ is Romance for _rising_, referring to the sun, so Levantine Arabic includes Syrian, Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese. This is not one group, but several, yet they're very similar. Likewise, all Egyptians don't speak a single Arabic. "Egyptian Arabic" really refers to the Nile Delta. 

Check out the full listing of the Arabic languages at www.ethnologue.org. Select Browse the Web version > Browse . . . Language families > Afroa-Asiatic > Semitic > . . . >Arabic, Egyptian Spoken . (Ignore the category of South Arabian; these languages are not Arabic.)


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## cherine

DaleC said:
			
		

> The book's assessment of the language question points out that Egyptian television has changed the situation in the last 20 years. During this time, Egyptian television, particularly "soap operas", have become syndicated throughout the Arabic speaking world. For this reason, more Arabs are familiar with the Egyptian accent than ever before, and more familiar with Egyptian by far than any other Arabic. Egyptian vocabulary, too, is diffusing.



That's my opinion too, but I feared i would be called chauvinist  Besides, I personally believe Lebanese (or levantine) is a very musical dialect (but specially Lebanese) which makes it easier to understand and more musically beautiful. Lebanese songs and Syrian soap operas are currently playing the same role played by Egyptian media production, and this is helping in spreading their dialect. As for the other colloquial forms of Arabic, like Yemeni, Khaliji, Maghrebi... they are very difficult, i personally almost never understand maghrebi (very difficult). While Egyptian and Levantine are sort of "passe partout".




			
				DaleC said:
			
		

> Likewise, all Egyptians don't speak a single Arabic. "Egyptian Arabic" really refers to the Nile Delta.


This is also true, northern Egypt has a dialect that differs from the southern (peasants speak different "Egyptian" than "sa3eedi" (Upper-Egyptians), different from city people... but we manage to understand each others thanks, again, to soap operas  and to family relations between different social classes or different family origins (people from a city getting married to people from the countryside or UpperEgypt...


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## haddad

I am a Arab Christian born in Lebanon and in my opinion if you are studying MSA ( Encouraged) and wanting to learn Arabic Dialect? Its best to study Levantine. The Levantine Arabic is spoken in Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Syria and Jordan. If you have knowledge of MSA and Levantine you can still be understood and speak to regular people even from Arabian Peninsula.

And considering Beirut is considered the capital of the Arab world, Palestinian Issues with Israel, Syrian Ancient past and present political situation and Jordanian realtionship with US, Its clearly the best to take up Levantine.

Book Reference? Get Levantine Arabic For Beginners Yale Publishing ( HUssein),Or Mary Jane http://syrianarabic.com/
The website allows you to download MP3s and PDFs and its functional course and outstanding .

After taking the levantine and if you would love to understand Arabic in depth? Go to Yemen and learn the Sanaai dialect. Do not go to the south as the dialect there is terrifyingly a different Language altogether ( Hadrami, mahric etc etc) but highly regarded and Beuatiful. Check out Jane Watson for Yemeni.

If you already decided to learn Levantine Arabic, even though I am Lebanese, I advice you to go Syria to make full use of your learning experience as the people there still function in Levantine 100%. Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine/Israel will try to speak english to you , hence wasting time. Get a grip learn in Syria and travel to Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Arabian peninsula and Ancient Yemen, the land of the original Semites.

You can pick up Egytian while watching TV , so dont worry.


I hope this helps and do email me if you need more advice.

Haddad


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## kanny_amour

Wow guys, your answers have been very helpful! I was asking myself exactly what Jjanke asked. I just wish to thank you, five years after your posts, for your insightful replies as they are helping me make my decision. Special thanks to DaleC and Haddad. 
I really would love to visit Lebanon, Syria and Palestine. The trip is not yet in its planning stages... it might wait another 2 years or so. But in the meantime, I want to start learning. I am self teaching and have decided to go with audio only courses first... then dive into writing. I have the alphabet down but the various additional symbols give me a headache. I might need a teacher for that. Given how expensive those things are, I am going to get comfortable with speaking and then make the expense for the next step. Wish me luck! And give me any pointers you think might be helpful.

Thanks again,

Kanny


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## hiba

I think the most important thing is that no matter where you go, make friends with people from various Arab countries and you'll benefit a lot from it. For example, I live in Yemen but my group of friends includes two Yemenis, three Sudanis, an Iraqi and a Syrian. You pick up a little from each dialect and when they talk together it's interesting how they use each other's dialects as well. The great thing about Yemen is that students from all over the Arab world come to study at the universities here (they aren't prestigious or anything) so you have a chance to meet a lot of different people if you try, not just Yemenis. That's been my experience!


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## Ayazid

To decide which Arabic dialect is the most useful for understanding other dialects is quite difficult, but I have been under the impression, that in spite of being rather little known, the Libyan dialect could be the most "universal" one, since being on the imaginary border between the Arab West and East it shares both Maghribi and Mashriqi (being a bedouin dialect particularly Arabian) features.

Among the Eastern dialects the most universal one could be that of Hejaz, since it's a link between the dialects of the Nile Valley on one hand and the dialects of the Arabian peninsula and Iraq on the other one and it is not that far from the Levantine dialects either.


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## clevermizo

This topic has of course come up time and again and this is an old thread, but really, I want to add - how common is it to really travel everywhere from Casablanca to Baghdad? I mean, you could just get by with MSA and English, and maybe some Egyptian or something. But really, I think most people will likely visit some smaller region, no? 

To me, that's like asking, what language is the best to learn to tour through all of Europe. Well I suppose that's English.   That might be true (unfortunately?) in Arabic speaking countries too and maybe all over the world .

As we have established time and again, no single dialect can reliably be shown to be closer to standard Arabic than any other dialect. Some have features that others have lost and vice versa; some have vocabulary that others do not and vice versa. I think one should think of one's travel ventures in a realistic way and learn a local dialect that best serves one in the region in which they wish to travel. And if they wish to tour for just a short time, at least the basics (greetings and common sayings, pronouns, basics of verb conjugation, how to say things like "I want", "I need", "Where is...?", "How much is...?") supplemented with standard Arabic as sort of a hybrid, should serve fine as a tourist language. That's the sort of stuff you could learn on the plane from one place to another. And if one is really learning to be fluent, surely they plan on living in a specific area for an extended period of time, in which case a single local dialect should suffice, no?


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## Abu Rashid

clevermizo said:
			
		

> To me, that's like asking, what language is the best to learn to tour through all of Europe.



I think the example you give is a little over the top. Europe contains many varied languages, actually even fairly different branches of a language family.

Your example would apply if someone said I want to travel across the Middle East and all of Africa.. maybe.

One would assume it's possible to learn a single dialect of Arabic that would be the most utilitarian. Not so for a region littered with different languages.


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## clevermizo

Abu Rashid said:


> I think the example you give is a little over the top. Europe contains many varied languages, actually even fairly different branches of a language family.



You're right; I reacted a bit strongly. 



> Your example would apply if someone said I want to travel across the Middle East and all of Africa.. maybe.


It's a poor analogy on my part, but doesn't work in any case, because there's far too much linguistic diversity in all of Africa.



> One would assume it's possible to learn a single dialect of Arabic that would be the most utilitarian. Not so for a region littered with different languages.


See this is where I'm unsure, my poor analogies notwithstanding. I think that you could use standard Arabic in combination with some regional expressions to give you a utilitarian form of language, but I don't know if there really is a single dialect that can serve the entire Arab world. Especially when you consider that a Moroccan may understand me when I speak Egyptian, but I may not understand the response in Moroccan. It would honestly be safer to use standard Arabic (since many will reciprocate) or French or English, in order to be able to have conversation back and forth. That's considering I'm going to be in Morocco for one week before I head to Tunis. If I was going to spend the next 5 years of my life in Morocco, I would just learn the most widely understood Moroccan dialect (in addition to standard Arabic), and call it a day. This is where one's travel plans and personal goals come into play.


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## WadiH

Ayazid said:


> Among the Eastern dialects the most universal one could be that of Hejaz, since it's a link between the dialects of the Nile Valley on one hand and the dialects of the Arabian peninsula and Iraq on the other one and it is not that far from the Levantine dialects either.



This is well said and I agree with it, but it means this dialect is easier to understand for others, not the other way around.


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## WadiH

clevermizo said:


> As we have established time and again, no single dialect can reliably be shown to be closer to standard Arabic than any other dialect.



It's been stated here by a couple of people time and again, but it's never been "established" even once.  There are dialects that are more conservative than others in vocabulary, grammar and phonology, all at once even.  That is a simple fact, easily demonstrated and explained by many respected linguists in the field, especially in terms of vocabulary.  In fact, I've found among most specialists in Arabic linguistics that it is axiomatic that some dialects are more conservative of Fus7a features than others.

I don't think that this is relevant to the issue of what dialect will help you understand other dialects more easily.  It's easier to find a dialect that will make *you* understood by speakers of other dialects than the other way around.


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## إسكندراني

!
I disagree!
Having been to Morocco, and assuming a similar situation in the rest of the Maghreb, English is next to useless outside very specific circumstances.
From my perspective, I think the minimum requirement for your theoretical journey would be some degree of MSA, English and French.
If one was to learn the dialect, which is a good idea since in Morocco I did more than occasionally find all of my resources (English, French, Egyptian, MSA) useless, I would pick one mashreq (excl levant), one maghreb and egyptian/levantian. That for me is starting to make all the neccessary connections, and is not actually that difficult if you have some people around you as hiba seems to!
But this is all highly speculative and almost worthy of deletion...


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## najad

I think Egyptian would help you since it is understood everywhere in the arab world and don't worry, if you speak egyptian, people ( especially in the maghreb) will understand that you are a foreigner and thus they won't talk to you in their dialects, they will try to use SA or even egyptinan( sometimes a mixture) to make you understand
so " itakel 3ala Allah" and learn egyptian.


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## SonOfAdam

I hope nobody minds my resurrecting this old thread. It's just so fantastic, and it seems like the most logical place to say what I want to say...

In the past I have tried to explain the situation with Arabic to people by describing this imaginary scenario: 
_
Imagine if Spain, Portugal and Italy still used Latin in all their written communication, and called what they speak from day to day "Spanish Latin", "Portuguese Latin" and "Italian Latin." So, for example, children in Madrid would grow up with "Spanish Latin" at home, but be taught literacy in "proper" Latin at school. If you went there for a holiday, you would find everybody from all walks of life speaking "Spanish Latin" in both formal and informal situations, but when you watched the news or read a book you would find it was in Latin.

Of course this would serve to unify somewhat the cultures of three countries. For example, a Portuguese writer would write in Latin, but as he did so his book could be published simultaneously in Spain and Italy because they read Latin too.

What would happen when someone from Spain went to Italy? He would either communicate using Latin, or he would try to learn Italian. Or if Italians were in the habit of watching Spanish movies they might be able to understand his Spanish, but respond to him in Latin. And so on...

What would a foreigner do in such a situation? If he were an international businessman he would probably stick with Latin, but if he wanted to get into contemporary culture he would probably want to learn one of the "spoken Latins" as well. But for any one person to learn everything would be neither possible nor necessary, any more than most people need to learn Spanish, Portuguese and Italian all at the same time.
_
I know it sounds obvious but I think it helps to put things into perspective for people who speak languages where what you write and what you speak are practically the same (basically 99% of the rest of the world ). You know, people who have trouble getting their head around how the spoken language can be different from the written language, and still not be slang.

What do you all think?


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## Jabir

@SonofAdam

I don't mean to go offtopic but written Portuguese and spoken Portuguese is already very, very different!
Also, you forgot to put "French" in your theory.

Anyway, I think your example pretty good, because a Portuguese speaker can understood well a Spanish one, with a little effort, so I think it is a nice way to draw the multi-dialectal Arab word - and I admit it was hard for me to understand the level of difference between dialects before reading your post.


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## SonOfAdam

Jabir said:


> @SonofAdam
> 
> I don't mean to go offtopic but written Portuguese and spoken Portuguese is already very, very different!
> Also, you forgot to put "French" in your theory.


Aha yes, well, there you go!  I have a smattering of French and that's it for me with Romance languages, so I had hoped somebody from "the Romance world" (to coin a phrase) would help me make sure my analogy was sound.

I didn't know that was the situation with Portuguese, that's interesting. My other language is Turkish, where written and spoken are even closer to each other than written and spoken English, and the situation with Arabic is so unusual I assumed most European languages write like they speak, more or less. 

The reason I didn't include French was because, rightly or wrongly, I have the impression that it's further removed from Latin than the others. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Even if I'm right maybe it could represent the North African dialects of Arabic which are further away from فصحى than Middle Eastern ones, relatively speaking. Unless I'm wrong about that one as well.  

Anyway, thanks for the review! I'm glad you like the idea.


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## Muwahid

But if Latin was still common in communication as MSA is in the Arab world, with books, and media, then the "Spoken Latins" would probably retain more and be less removed from their origins. The earlier I was in studying Arabic the more I thought that a dialect is essentially a different language than MSA, but over time the parallels between the two became more apparent, and in fact dialects even retain a lot of classic Arabic words and expressions.

But you know on this topic a lot of people I feel don't realize that more and more native Arabs are understanding a multitude of dialects, every Arab I know pretty much understands Egyptian, and while sometimes it's hard for Eastern Arabs to understand Western Arabic dialects, I find that those from places like Morocco have a fluent understanding of Levantine and/or Egyptian from the popular television programs broadcast around the world. So the issue of dialect to dialect becomes less of a hassle. 

In my opinion if you're going to just travel around various middle eastern countries, MSA is fine, if you want to stay for a while and explore a couple or one countries, learn the dialect of this region, people looking for that one dialect solution I believe are going about it the wrong way, I find that because dialects evolved with each other and exist in continuum they share a lot with each other, so sometimes people exaggerate the differences.


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## Jabir

Oh, yes we have to take into account that Latin is dead and gone - which is the point that differentiates it from MSA in the analogy of SonofAdam Effendi.


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## kamoo

I would say Egyptian for sure. Most Moroccans seem to be able to reciprocate egyptian moreso than MSA. There is no guarantee they know MSA, but they most likely have watched a few dozen mosalsalat and listen to Abdel Halim. lol


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## إسكندراني

I found women are likely to understand Egyptian, but men never do. They are certainly never able to _speak_ Egyptian.


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## KhadijaElMaghrebiya

Well it's true that Moroccans are definetly not well trained in English (for historical reasons), but they can definetly understand most Arabic speakers and especially Egyptian, Lebanese and Saudi Hejazi since Egyptian movies and music have iconic statuses and Lebanese pop culture and television have invaded our cable channels and because of the religious talk shows and interviews on TV. Once one has learned MSA and any dialect, it's pretty simple to catch another dialect, as long as you have the chance to meet up with native speakers. For instance, an Egyptian wouldn't need to take Moroccan Arabic classes the same way a French would need to take Chinese or even Italian classes if he wanted to learn these languages. I have for instance Syrian, Saudis or Lebanese friends who can speak perfect Moroccan just by hanging out with Moroccans. Same of a Palestinian friend who is able to speak Algerian and Tunisian just by having an Algerian and Tunisian roommates. I think that the best dialect to learn for beginning would be the Syrian dialect because it has a more conservative form than Egyptian. But then it would be better to improve your knowledge of Arabic by learning some Egyptian, Maghrebi and Gulf vocabulary, so then you will be able to discuss with most Arabs. I was born and raised in France, I speak Moroccan Arabic and never studied MSA, but because I have friends from all over the Arab world, and because I love Arabic music (from all the countries), I am able to understand and speak with anyone from Morocco to Bahrain.


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## Hemza

I know this topic is old, but I go:

I agree with "khadijaelmaghrebiya", I'm myself Moroccan and part 7ejazi, and I have the chance to have a Syrian-Tunisian friend, Egyptians, Moroccans, Algerians, and a Saudi friend. After a while, whatever the dialect you speak, if you have friends or at least, know people from all parts of Arabic speaking countries, you just need a period of time to get used to their dialect and accent and you will be able to understand it easily (speak it is different). For example, my Saudi friend lived in Morocco, she understand it perfectly, me I understand easily Egyptian, Najdi (thanks to Bedouin 7ejazi), Maghrebian dialects and at a less extent, Levantine dialects, thanks to my Syrian friend. It's just a matter of getting used to a dialect. I'm also a native French speaker (was born in France) and I can understand some Spanish/Italian/Portuguese words, because it's close to French, but I can't understand nor hold a conversation, since I don't know those languages, while with Arabic dialects, it's different, so I don't think there is any possible comparison between Romance languages and Arabic dialects.

At the other hand, I have really hard time to understand Iraqi, Yemeni, 7assani (Mauritanian) because I'm not exposed to it a lot (never for Yemeni).

Again, this thread is really old, I suppose you already learnt a dialect, but the best (in my opinion) is Cairene Egyptian, the most widely understood, even if Levantine and Gulf dialects are more and more understood.


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## إسكندراني

Nobody is saying a native of some country is incapable of learning another language, if you start living in China you'll learn chinese. The question at hand is _what is useful for someone visiting Arab countries._With Algerians, Moroccans and Mauritanians, I've found Egyptian to be useless unless that individual is particularly into soaps. I essentially end up watering down my dialect until it's very close to standard. Further east, they understand Egyptian, but it's unreasonable to expect them to speak it, so you'll still need to learn their dialect a little to converse.

Even when speaking with people from the Gulf, which I've only had the chance to over the past couple of years, I have to be careful what expressions I use; it's not possible to use my 'real' dialect as naturally as I would with Egyptians or people from the levant.


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