# Spanish(es) (plural of nationality)



## Sussana

Hi!

Can I use 'Spanish' as a plural noun instead of using 'Spanish people'? What about the rest of names of nationalities such as Chinese, Egyptian, etc. Does it depend on the the suffix?

Thank you for your help,

Sussana


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## Yyrkoon

Umm yo siempre uso *s*panish people, pero por ahi he leido muchas veces "spanyards" o algo así, no recuerdo exactamente si se escribía de este modo, espera a que lo confirmen.


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## Tylerbrain

I'd rather say "Spaniards". With regard to the others, I don't know... does anyone know?


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## clipper

Hi,

Yes you can, collectively you can use a nationality as a noun, e.g. the Spanish, the English, the Egyptians etc...

The other way is to say it is "Spaniards" but I prefer to say "the Spanish"


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## Neever

Hi Sussana,

Well, I have heard "Spaniards" but don't use the word myself.  I know you can use the word "Englishes"  so presume you can use "Spanishes" too, but I have only ever heard this in relation to the languages, not people. 

Chinese can be used as a plural or singular i.e. the Chinese people / a Chinese girl and Egyptians is fine too, but it depends on the instance.  "Chineses" doesn't work, and neither does "Spanishes" i.e. There are six Spanishes in that room.


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## Sussana

Thank your for your prompt answers.
Sussana


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## pedro_a

I am not 'happy' with the foregoing and fear you may have got the wrong impression. For me it's clear: "the English", "the Spanish", "the French", "the Chinese" etc, etc, etc. refer to the people of the country concerned (wherever they may be - e.g. "the Chinese in Holland").
In the particular case of Spain, we also have "spaniards" - I can't think of any other country or nationality for which such a noun exists separate from the adjective that is used as noun.
As for "Englishes", "Spanishes" etc, I have _never_ heard these forms in my long life!

Peter


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## Neever

pedro_a said:
			
		

> As for "Englishes", "Spanishes" etc, I have _never_ heard these forms in my long life!
> 
> Peter



Well Peter, I wouldn't use them myself, but as I said I have _seen _"Englishes" in current use.  The journal* "World Englishes*" doesn't seem to have a problem with it!


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## se16teddy

'Englishes' is not a common word but if it means anything it means 'varieties of the English language'. 
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/book.asp?ref=1405111852


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## Doval

se16teddy said:
			
		

> 'Englishes' is not a common word but if it means anything it means 'varieties of the English language'.


I agree.  I have NEVER seen the word "Englishes" used to refer to the English people.

The English; the Spanish (Spaniards); the Egyptians; the Russians; the Portuguese; the French.

See here for the rule:  If the singular ends in s, sh, ch, or z (e.g., Chinese) sound, the plural is the same as the singular.  Otherwise, add an s.


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## Outsider

se16teddy said:
			
		

> 'Englishes' is not a common word but if it means anything it means 'varieties of the English language'.


Indeed. Here's an article that uses that word, 'Englishes' on CNN


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## pedro_a

O.K., evidently "Englishes" can be used for "varieties of the English language". You live and learn!

Peter


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## Nanamalefica

Doval said:


> If the singular ends in s, sh, ch, or z (e.g., Chinese) sound, the plural is the same as the singular.  Otherwise, add an s.



Maybe it's easier to express the rule the other way around: if the singular ends in n, add the s for the plural, otherwise it is the same as the singular.

Am I wrong? 
Do you know any exception?


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## Doval

Nanamalefica said:


> Maybe it's easier to express the rule the other way around: if the singular ends in n, add the s for the plural, otherwise it is the same as the singular.
> 
> Am I wrong?
> Do you know any exception?


I don't think so. Not all nationalities end either in an "n" or an "s"-like sound. For example, Greek (Greeks), Usbek (Usbeks), Yemeni (Yemenis), Bahraini (Bahraini or Bahrainis), Thai (Thais). As you can see, though, in some instances when the singular ends in "i" it is possible to eliminate the "s" when forming the plural.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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## pops91710

Englishes is incorrect! *Taking a closer look, however, you will discover that there is a great variety of spoken "Englishes" on CNN Europe.

*Please note that the author put englishes in quotes denoting he/she is aware it is improper.


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## Nanamalefica

Doval said:


> I don't think so. Not all nationalities end either in an "n" or an "s"-like sound. For example, Greek (Greeks), Usbek (Usbeks), Yemeni (Yemenis), Bahraini (Bahraini or Bahrainis), Thai (Thais). As you can see, though, in some instances when the singular ends in "i" it is possible to eliminate the "s" when forming the plural.
> 
> Oh, and welcome to the forum!



You are perfectly right!
That was exactly what i was looking for.

Thank you for the reply,
and for the welcome!


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## duvija

By the way, before Spaniards, the word used was 'Spaniels'. That changed when someone remembered the dogs...


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## aztlaniano

Sussana said:


> Can I use 'Spanish' as a plural noun instead of using 'Spanish people'?


Si hablas con estadounidenses, mejor usar "Spaniards", ya que con "the Spanish" podrían entender "hispanohablantes".



Sussana said:


> What about the rest of names of nationalities such as Chinese, Egyptian, etc. Does it depend on the the suffix?


The Chinese, the Egyptians, the Italians, the Portuguese, the Mexicans, the Americans, the British, the French, the Irish, the Danish etc.
En los cuatro últimos casos, también podrías decir "Britons", "Frenchmen", "Irishmen", o "Danes".
También diría "the Poles", "the Finns" (aunque supongo que es posible también "the Finnish") y "the Icelanders".


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## pops91710

aztlaniano said:


> Si hablas con estadounidenses, mejor usar "Spaniards", ya que con "the Spanish" podrían entender "hispanohablantes".
> 
> 
> The Chinese, the Egyptians, the Italians, the Portuguese, the Mexicans, the Americans, the British, the French, the Irish, the Danish etc.
> En los cuatro últimos casos, también podrías decir "Britons", "Frenchmen", "Irishmen", o "Danes".
> También diría "the Poles", "the Finns" (aunque supongo que es posible también "the Finnish") y "the Icelanders".



*"Frenchmen", "Irishmen",* Uuuuuuuuhh! Señor Aztlaniano! Hoy en día no se puede decir nada que tiene '-men' ! Las mujeres liberadas se ponen agitadas! 

Otro que es ofensivo hoy en día es Chinaman, no a causa de las mujeres mencionadas, pero era un peyorativo del pasado.


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## aztlaniano

pops91710 said:


> *"Frenchmen", "Irishmen",* Uuuuuuuuhh! Señor Aztlaniano! Hoy en día no se puede decir nada que tiene '-men' ! Las mujeres liberadas se ponen agitadas!


Entonces, ¿cómo pueden contarse los chistes que comienzan "Paddy the Irishman ..." ?

Edit -
En la serie "Married with Children", el protagonista, Al Bundy, comenta a un amigo: 
"She's got you shaking like a Frenchman in a thunderstorm." (Supongo que alude a que los franceses temen los truenos porque podrían ser de la artillería alemana). Total, el programa es de hace, quizá, 20 años, nada más.


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## pops91710

aztlaniano said:


> Entonces, ¿cómo pueden contarse los chistes que comienzan "Paddy the Irishman ..." ?
> 
> Edit -
> En la serie "Married with Children", el protagonista, Al Bundy, comenta a un amigo:
> "She's got you shaking like a Frenchman in a thunderstorm." (Supongo que alude a que los franceses temen los truenos porque podrían ser de la artillería alemana). Total, el programa es de hace, quizá, 20 años, nada más.



Ah, eso es fácil! En el singular es obvio que se refierre al hombre, pero en el plural, como para una nación de ambos sexos, (segun ellas) es prohibido porque excluye a las mujeres. ¿No es problemático en europa? Te lo juro que tuvimos que cambiar la manera de decir muchas cosas aqui en los EUA a causa de las femenistas.


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## aztlaniano

pops91710 said:


> Te lo juro que tuvimos que cambiar la manera de decir muchas cosas aqui en los EUA a causa de las femenistas.


¿Mejor que no me guíe por Al Bundy, entonces? (Me parece que un amigo de Homer Simpson dijo lo mismo de "un francés cobarde" en algún episodio.)


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## kalamazoo

There really aren't clear cut rules.  Often you add an "s" to the end of the adjective (Mexicans, Canadians, Africans, Asians, Argentinians, Cambodians, Rumanians, Bulgarians) but not always (doesn't work for French, Spanish, English,Chinese, Turkish (they are "Turks"), Polish (they are "Poles"), Swedish (they are "Swedes").  "Spaniards" is correct or "Spanish people" but not "Spanishes".).


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## pops91710

aztlaniano said:


> *¿Mejor que no me guíe por Al Bundy, entonces? *)



Mejor que no, Aztlaniano! Acuérdate de la Lorena Bobbit!

En cuanto a* the argentinians* tambien se puede decir Argentines, pero hoy en dia es menos popular. El nombre oficial de Argentina es República Argentina, lo cual traducía Argentine Republic pero adoptamos la forma Argentina en inglés hace años. 

Se me parece interesante que casi todos los nombres de los países de America Latina no hemos convertido a inglés..... pero de los países europeos ningun queda en la forma original sino las Islas de Gran Britania.


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## kalamazoo

How about "France" - same in English as in France itself (yes pronounced differently but hey you can't have everything). 

Also in Spanish,which of the European countries keep their original names? Besides Espana itself of course.

I forgot about the Argentines.

By the way "Frenchman" and "Frenchwoman" are perfectly legitimate terms, but we do use Frenchman/men to mean French people in general, both male and female, and sometimes even "Englishmen."  IN both cases, it's probably much more common these days to say "The French like..." or "The English usually...."  There's also "Dutchman" but I can't think of any other examples off hand.


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## aztlaniano

Along with Argentines, Ecuador*e*ans (ecuatorianos) is a slight exception to the -ians rule.
Incidentally, the Spaniards used to be called "the Dons" in the US press, back in the days when Teddy Roosevelt was helping the Cubans to throw off the Spanish imperial yoke, back in the days of my youth. I never heard any reference to "the Doñas", however.
The Americans have come up with their own, informal, terms for some European nationalities (as well as for their Northern neighbours, the Canucks), such as Frogs (Frenchmen), Krauts (Germans), Limeys (Englishmen), Micks (Irishmen) Eye-ties, Dagos, Wops (Italians), or Polacks (Poles). Spics can be used for Spaniards, but is more likely to be understood as meaning Spanish-speakers in general. Dagoes can be applied (and is, especially by Britons) to Spaniards (and the Portuguese) as well as to Italians.


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## pops91710

aztlaniano said:


> Along with Argentines, Ecuador*e*ans (ecuatorianos) is a slight exception to the -ians rule.
> Incidentally, the Spaniards used to be called "the Dons" in the US press, back in the days when Teddy Roosevelt was helping the Cubans to throw off the Spanish imperial yoke, back in the days of my youth. I never heard any reference to "the Doñas", however.
> _The Americans have come up with their own, informal, terms for some European nationalities (as well as for their Northern neighbours, the Canucks), such as Frogs (Frenchmen), Krauts (Germans), Limeys (Englishmen), Micks (Irishmen) Eye-ties, Dagos, Wops (Italians), or Polacks (Poles). Spics can be used for Spaniards, but is more likely to be understood as meaning Spanish-speakers in general. Dagos can be applied (and is, especially by Britons) to Spaniards (and the Portuguese) as well as to Italians._



All of which are pejorative, some more so than others.


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