# sicher (safe / secure / certain)



## ThomasK

I found it interesting that German has one word _*Sicher/heit*_ for both 'certain/ty' and 'secur/ity', or even 'sureness' (reliability). I wonder whether it is the case in any other language, and in particular what word you have for _*safety/ security*_ (1). I suggest various uses of Sicherheit below (2), but that is less important. 

(1) 
English : 
*security* (explanation below) and *safety* (based on Lat. 'salvus', then 'salus', and referring back to 'whole', vs. _surety/ certainty_. 



> from L. _salvus_ "uninjured, healthy, safe," related to _salus_ "good health," _saluber_ "healthful," all from PIE _*solwos_ from base _*sol-_ "whole" (etymonline.org)


 
Dutch: 
_*veiligheid*_ (referring to Germ. word for 'good, lovely, reliable', I believe) vs. _*zeker(heid)*_

French: 
there is a variation between _*sécurité* (1, 3, 5, 6 below, _I think)_,_ which is reserved for _safety_, I believe [_Se-cura_ means _without-worries_, I believe] and _*sûr, certain* (2, 4 ?)). _


(2) 
I think it interesting to refer to use in contexts : 
German/ English/ Dutch (bold where we don't use the equivalent of _sicher_)

1. _soziale Sicherheit/ _*Social* *security*/_ sociale zekerheid_
2. _ich bin sicher, dass .../_*I am sure/ certain* that/ _Ik ben _*zeker *_dat... _
_3._ _Sicherheitsgürtel/_*Safety* *belt*/_ *veiligheids*gordel ._ 
4. _Selbstsicher/_*Self-assured* (self-confident)/ zelfzeker. 
5. Finanzielle Sicherheit/ _*Financial security* financiële zekerheid. _
_6._ Sicherheitsdienste/ _*security services*/ veiligheidsdiensten._


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> I found it interesting that German has one word _*Sicherheit*_ for both 'certainty' and 'security', or even 'sureness' (reliability). I wonder whether it is the case in any other language, and in particular what word you have for _safety/ security_.


In Portuguese the abstract noun _*segurança*_ (security/safety/certainty/confidence) and the corresponding adjective _*seguro*_ (secure/safe/certain/confident) cover all those meanings. There are also other words we can use if we wish to distinguish between the concepts.

Note: _segurança_ is also the word for a security officer.


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## ThomasK

Can you also _soy (?) seguro_, 'I am sure',_ je suis sûr (et certain)_ ? (Thanks)


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## sakvaka

In *Finnish*, the words _varmuus_ and _turvallisuus _are used. Funny: the etymologies of the both words are uncertain, but still they can be traced back to Ancient Indian (!) and Aryan languages. The latter may also be related to English _true_ and _truce_.

Ok, now on to the meanings.
1) sosiaaliturva
2) olen varma, että
3) turvavyö
4) itsevarma
5) (_maybe_) taloudellinen turvallisuus
6) turvallisuuspalvelut


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## itreius

*Croatian*

safety - *sigurnost *(e.g. "for safety reasons" -> "iz _sigurnosnih _razloga"; etymology Venetian "sigur")
security - sigurnost
certainty - *izvjesnost *& sigurnost (e.g. "I'm quite certain" -> "Poprilično sam _siguran_"; "It's quite certain that..." - "_Izvjesno _je da..."
sureness - sigurnost, *pouzdanost *(e.g. "I'm sure" - "_Siguran _sam",
insurance - *osiguranje*
safety belt - sigurnosni pojas
confident - *samouvjeren *(etymology "uvjeren" <- "vjera" - _belief,faith_)


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## ThomasK

'Izvest': anything like truth (as in the newspaper title _Izvestia_ ?

_(My knowledge is Slavic is nearly inexistent, mind you)_


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## itreius

*Izvjesnost *<- *iz* + *vijest *<- Old Slavic *věstь* <-

Vijest means "news" in Croatian.
The HJP (Croatian Language Portal) suggests that *věstь *is linked to the Old Slavic *vědě*, which means "to know", (Croatian "vidjeti" -> "to see", Slovenian "vedeti" -> "to know"), Indo-European *weyd
There's also the verb "izvjestiti", which means "to inform", and the noun "izvješće".


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> Can you also _soy (?) seguro_, 'I am sure',_ je suis sûr (et certain)_ ? (Thanks)


We'd usually say _estou seguro_ (with the other copula) to say that we're certain of something in particular, or that we're safe from some hazard.

Less common, but also possible, is to say _sou seguro_, meaning either "I'm confident", "I'm reliable", or "I'm dependable".


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## ThomasK

Great information, I and O! (I see that in Portuguese and Spanish there is that difference between the two verbs of being, with its implications regarding the meaning of words)


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## Encolpius

Hello, I'm afraid we Hungarians follow the German model. 
1) certain = *biz*onyos [< verb: bízik = to trust]
2) secure
a) biztonságos (more common, modern)
b) biztos (possible, formal, obsolete)
3) sure = biztos, bizonyos
But as you can see the origin is always the verb bíz-ik [trust]

1) social security = társadalmi biztosítás
2) I am sure = biztos, bizonyos
3) safety belt = biztonsági öv
4) self-assured = magabiztos
5) financial security = anyagi biztonság
6) security services = biztonsági szolgálat


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## ThomasK

Aha, so German is not an exception. I am not surprised: feeling certain and feeling safe come very close as for their meaning. 

But in this respect HUngarian does seem quite different from Finnish. 

While checking on some things in Finnish, I came across _*tietyt*_, which is supposed to mean 'certain'. We'll have to ask one of our Finnish contributors.


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> While checking on some things in Finnish, I came across _*tietyt*_, which is supposed to mean 'certain'. We'll have to ask one of our Finnish contributors.



It's one of the words I have learnt from you: _bepaalde_.  Or the plural of "known".


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## ThomasK

Oh, I see, that is quite different from what we mean here, although I'd be inclined to think there might be a link with the _izvest_ in Slavic. But I suppose you do not feel there is a link between this _tietyt_ and the other _safety_ words, I guess. _(But great to have a polyglot Finn around!)_


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> . But I suppose you do not feel there is a link between this _tietyt_ and the other _safety_ words, I guess. _(But great to have a polyglot Finn around!)_



No, I wouldn't say so.


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## bibax

Czech:

1. *bezpečen/bezpečný* (adj.), *bezpečí* and *bezpečnost* (noun) = safe/secure, safety/security;

it is a calque: bez péče = se cura, sine cura (without care);

Praha je bezpečné město (Prague is a safe city).
bezpečnostní služby (security services)
Státní bezpečnost (Czechoslovak variant of Stasi or KGB)

2. *jist/jistý* (adj.), *jistota* (noun) = certain/sure, certainty;

from Proto-Slavic ist (with hard yer at the end) < *wid-tos < *weid- (to see, to know), cf. Ger. *gewiß*;

Jsem si jist, že ... (I am sure that ...).
sebejistý (self-confident, self-assured)


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
*Security:
«Ασφάλεια»* (as'falia, _f._); from the ancient feminine noun «ἀσφάλεια» (as'pʰaleia)--> privative prefix «α-» + verb «σφάλλω» ('spʰallō: _to go wrong, be mistaken_); «ἀσφάλεια» lit. describes the _security against stumbling, failing_.
*Certainty:
«Βεβαιότητα»* (veve'otita, _f._); from the ancient feminine noun «βεβαιότης» (bĕbæ'ŏtēs)-->_steadfastness, certainty_. Etymologically, it derives from the ancient root *βεβα- (*beba-), e.g «βεβαώς» (beba'ōs): _imperfect tense_ of the verb «βαίνω» ('bænō)-->_to walk, step, move toward a direction already determined_.  «Bεβαιότης» therefore initially meant _security of walking, stepping; to walk on a steadfast path_.
Colloquially there's also the Venetian loanword, in use since the Byzantine times, «σιγουριά» (siɣur'ʝa, _f._)-->security & certainty. _Adj._ «σίγουρος, -η, -ο» ('siɣuros _m._, 'siɣuri _f._, 'siɣuro _n._)-->_safe, certain_. It derives from the Venetian _seguro_ which in Byzantine Greek was used as «σεγοῦρος» (se'ɣuros), ultimately «σίγουρος». Interestingly enough, 99 out of 100 times, in our everyday speech we'll use the adj. «σίγουρος» instead of «βέβαιος» ('veveos: certain). 

*1.Social Security*-->Κοινωνική Ασφάλεια (cinoni'ci as'falia)
*2.I am sure/ certain*-->Είμαι σίγουρος, -η ('ime 'siɣuros _m._, 'siɣuri _f._); είμαι βέβαιος, -η  ('ime 'veveos _m._, 'vevei _f._)
*3.Safety belt*-->Ζώνη ασφαλείας ('zoni asfa'lias)
*4.Self-assured*-->σίγουρος, -η ('siɣuros _m._, 'siɣuri _f._)
*5.Financial security*-->Ασφαλές οικονομικό περιβάλλον (asfa'les ikonomi'ko peri'valon; lit. "safe/secure financial environment")
*6.Security services*-->Yπηρεσίες ασφαλείας (ipire'sies asfa'lias). Police forces in TV cliché language is «δυνάμεις ασφαλείας» (ði'namis asfa'lias) lit. "Security Forces". There's also a branch of Greek Police called «Ασφἀλεια» (As'falia _f._), probably "inspired" by the French _Sûreté_ and deals with serious crimes

[ɣ] is a voiced velar fricative
[c] is a voiceless palatal plosive
[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative


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## L'irlandais

ThomasK said:


> I...French:
> there is a variation between _*sécurité* (1, 3, 5, 6 below, _I think)_,_ which is reserved for _safety_, I believe [_Se-cura_ means _without-worries_, I believe] and _*sûr, certain* (2, 4 ?)). _


Hello,
Firstly my attempt at answering the French aspect :
security = security certainty = certitude (depending on context)
French français
1. social security/  *aide* sociale
2. i am sure/certain/ je suis *sûr*
3. saftey belt/ceinture de *sécurité*
4. Self-assured (self-confident)/ *sûr* de soi (plein d'assurance?)
5. Financial security/ financièrement *secure*
6. security services/ services de la* sûreté *(=security police ; state police rather than a private firm)

Secondly in Irish *Gaelic*
I think Irish like the French above have variations, unlike the German you mentioned.
security (saftey) = slándáil from slán  certainty = cinnteacht / deimhneacht

1. social security  *leas* sóisialta
2. i am sure/certain tá mé *cinnte*
3. saftey belt  crois *sábhála*
4. Self-assured (self-confident)/ féin*mhuiníneach*
5. Financial security  ? airgeadais  (don't know how to say this one, however security for a loan is* bannaí*)
6. security services/  seirbhís (*sábhála* ?)  unsure (To be honest I'm not very fluent with my Irish.

Vowels (as Gaeilge) *á é í ó ú Á É Í Ó Ú*


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## ThomasK

One question, Mr L'I ;-): don't you refer to _sécurité sociale_ in France? In the French-speaking part of Belgium it is the most common term, I think. 

And indeed, I did mean _services de sûreté_, indeed. I suppose the private ones would be called _'*services de sécurité'*_, would they not? 

So in Irish there are three or four or even five terms for this kind of 'Sicherheit'? What would be the specificity of _airgeadais_ and _bannai_ ? (I suppose the latter is the 'hypothèque' or something of the kind, that guarantees that one will be paid back)

_By the way, Apmoy: how come there is this Venetian/ Latin/ Italian influence in Greek? Commercial contacts or something the like? - We should of course not let this side question turn into a separate thread, but a brief answer and/or a reference to a website will do... _


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## enoo

L'irlandais said:


> 1. social security/  *aide* sociale
> (...)
> 5. Financial security/ financièrement secure



Thomas, "Sécurité sociale" exists and is much more common, but I don't believe it conveys the exact same meaning. I think "aide sociale" (social help) is indeed the right translation here. (Roughly speaking, "aide sociale" could be the money someone can get while jobless, and "sécurité sociale" is more related to the reimbursment of some medical expenses.)

5. Financial security : *Sécurité financière*. ("secure" does not exists).
Someone with financial security would be "assuré financièrement".


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## ThomasK

There is a misunderstanding, Enno, maybe due to me, but I did mean that _sécurité sociale_ (which in my view comprises social help). It would be interesting to hear/ find out what causes this misunderstanding. 

Thanks for the addition, especially for the _assuré financièrement_, just as in Dutch, whereas from a semantic point of view 'safety' is meant, I think...


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> _By the way, Apmoy: how come there is this Venetian/ Latin/ Italian influence in Greek? Commercial contacts or something the like? - We should of course not let this side question turn into a separate thread, but a brief answer and/or a reference to a website will do... _


Thomas, following 1204 when the Frankish and Venetian crusaders of the 4th crusade sacked Constantinople parts of Greece were conquered and held under their rule for 200 or even 400 years (Crete for instance was under Venetian rule from 1204-1669). Besides that, after the Ottomans conquered Eastern Mediterranean basin (the Levant, Greece, the Balkans) many Greeks (especially islanders) looked for help from the West (especially the Republic of Venice & Genoa) and worked as mercenaries for them: e.g the Estradiots or Stradioti (from the Greek word for soldier: «Στρατιώτης») were mercenaries from Greece (and Albania); in the naval battle of lepanto (1571) a large number of crewmen of the Christian fleet were Greeks. Gradually, Venetian (and Italian) became the lingua franca of Greek seafaring. A large percentage of maritime idiomatic expressions & language derives from Venetian, Genoese or Italian (e.g. wind names)


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## ThomasK

Great information. Thanks, Apmoy, I'll remember !


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## ThomasK

If I still may: I forgot about insurances. Do you use _*safe*_ or _sure_ ? 

I think 'sur-' (_zeker/ sicher/ seker_) ist most common: _verzekering_ (DU)/ _insurance_ (EN), _assurance_ (FR), _Versicherung_ (GE), _fersekering_ (SW). I do see a difference in Greek, I believe: _ασφάλιση_ refers to 'safe', I seem to remember, not to 'sure'. And I think Hungarian uses a safe word as well. Correct?


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> If I still may: I forgot about insurances. Do you use _*safe*_ or _sure_ ?
> 
> I think 'sur-' (_zeker/ sicher/ seker_) ist most common: _verzekering_ (DU)/ _insurance_ (EN), _assurance_ (FR), _Versicherung_ (GE), _fersekering_ (SW). I do see a difference in Greek, I believe: _ασφάλιση_ refers to 'safe', I seem to remember, not to 'sure'. And I think Hungarian uses a safe word as well. Correct?


Yep, in Greek insurance is «ασφάλιση» (as'falisi, _f._) indeed. It derives from the same Hellenistic Greek 3rd declension feminine noun «ἀσφάλισις» (as'falisis) which initially meant "reassurance"


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## ThomasK

But then 'assurance' and 'insurance' and 'safety' seem to come very close to one another, so I think.


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## ThomasK

Though we have grown seven years older in the meantime, I'd still be interested in hearing from Japanese and Chinese and Asian or African contributors how they render 'security', "certainty" and "safety" in their languages...


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## Dymn

I'd say there are 3 meanings and 2 objects:

1. Free from risk, danger or failure.
2. Free from doubt, having a 100% likelihood.
3. Free from falsehood, true.

a. The person or animate object that experiences safety, security or certainty.
b. The object, fact, place, etc. that provides those conditions.

3. is probably outside the scope of the thread but it's part of _cert_'s semantical space in Catalan so I include it.

*Catalan*:

1.a. _segur_ ("I'm *safe *inside this shelter")
1.b. _segur _("This shelter is *safe*")
1.noun. _seguretat _("We need to take *safety/security *measures")
2.a. _segur _("I'm *sure *about the answer")
2.b. _segur _("She escaped from *certain *death")
2.noun. _seguretat, certesa _("We must know it with *certainty*")
3.a. _encertat _("He's *right *about this")
3.b. _cert _("What she told me is *true*")
3.a.noun. _encert _
3.b.noun._ veritat
_
In 3.a. it's more common to say _tenir raó _instead of _estar encertat _and in 3.b. _ser veritat _instead of _ser cert_ but I needed adjectives just for the sake of example.

Your 6 examples are all translated with _segur/seguretat _in Catalan. "Insurance" is _assegurança _though.


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## ThomasK

Very interesting analysis of the concept. It looks quite plausible!

The 'certain' (2a) seems quite peculiar to me. I might translate it as _bepaald_ (definite) or _zeker_ (lit. secure, sure).

The addition of truth as a meaning in this connection is very intriguing - but logical: we only trust (TRU-) someone who is true to us (who speaks the truth to us). INteresting switch though at 3a/3b: you have two nouns then, but not the adjective equivalent of _veritat_._ (I suppose we cannot draw any conclusions from that)_ But of course there must be a link between certitude and truth, and then certainty...

Another link with truth is: French _garant_ is linked with _veritas_, truth, according to crntl.fr...


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## Dymn

Yes, there seems to be a significative overlap between "truth" and "certainty", also with "loyalty" (English _true _and German _treu_).



ThomasK said:


> INteresting switch though at 3a/3b: you have two nouns then, but not the adjective equivalent of _veritat_.


There is _vertader, veritable _(and in Majorca _ver_)... but most times "that's right" will be translated as "això és cert" or using the noun: "això és veritat". To a point that I associate _veritable _with the specific meaning of "real, not fake", as in "one true God".

Then there is also _certain _as a determiner in "several, some indefinite number", which also exists in Catalan and Spanish and makes me think of _very _which comes from the same root as Modern French _vrai._

And I forgot to mention that in Catalan, _segurament _(and Spanish _seguramente_) means "probably", not "surely, undoubtedly", despite the degree of certainty their corresponding adjective implies. I'm _probably _off-topicking though .


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## ThomasK

Interesting additions!
- that's right, it is sure/ surely correct, dat klopt in Dutch (it hits, or something the like). I'd hesitate to say; 'it is true (waar)' in Dutch, as - as far as I can see - there is little truth involved, only pragmatic truth: this works for me now
- determiner: indeed, _een zekere_ (particular, certain, but lit. sure) - and the very persoon I think of: yes, had not thought of that, which I'd paraphrase: the precise one, just the one...
- segurament(e): not off-topic, interesting use of "sure" - but I am wondering whether we can do that too. Yes, in a question: he will that do too, certainly? [Hij zal dat ook doen, zeker?] It is different, I suppose... Could you give me an example in Catalan?


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## Dymn

ThomasK said:


> - segurament(e): not off-topic, interesting use of "sure" - but I am wondering whether we can do that too. Yes, in a question: he will that do too, certainly? [Hij zal dat ook doen, zeker?] It is different, I suppose... Could you give me an example in Catalan?


You use it as a question tag? 

It's not the same. An example: _segurament no vindrà _"he probably won't come". The adjective _segur_ implies 100% likelihood, but its adverb _segurament_ admits a certain degree of doubt.

Now, references to truth in question tags are quite common in a bunch of languages, see this thread.


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## ThomasK

We do, indeed. But I guessed we use it in a different way. Yet, there is of course vraisemblablement (waarschijnlijk),  but that just implies that it is '"likely true". Not the same again. As far as I can see now, it is quite different from what I know, as for now...


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