# Persian: Definitions of Dusk, morning, evening, noon



## Daffodil100

Hello!

-1 I wonder what the timing slot for dusk is .
- ساعت چنج عصر
This is quoted from my textbook. If it is 6 pm, can I still use asr in above sentence. Or should I say ساعت شش شاب 
- 2 What’s the timing slot for noon?
ساعت دوازده ظهر
What if it is 11: 30 am or 12: 30 pm ?

- 3. What is the timing slot for morning?
- 4. What is the timing slot for evening?
- 5. I am not sure I understand the following Persian sentence. 
ساعت یک نصف شت. 
Does it mean it is 00 :30 am ? 

- 6. Is there any simple way to express timing like am, pm in English instead of pointing out dust, evening, morning, etc. 

Many thanks!


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## SamiraFrancophile

Daffodil100 said:


> Hello!
> 
> -1 I wonder what the timing slot for dusk is .
> - ساعت چنج عصر
> Correct. Normally پنج عصر is the start point of dusk. The end point, depends on the sunset, this period is called "عصر" or for short days in winter "غُروب"
> examples:  شش عصر، شش غروب، هفت و نيم عصر يا هفت و نيم غروب
> 
> This is quoted from my textbook. If it is 6 pm, can I still use asr in above sentence. Or should I say ساعت شش شاب
> We don't usually say شش شب even the sunset is at 6. شب normally starts from about 8:00 pm
> 
> - 2 What’s the timing slot for noon?
> ساعت دوازده ظهر
> Yes.
> What if it is 11: 30 am or 12: 30 pm ?
> Yes, we may negligibly call it ظهر too.
> 
> - 3. What is the timing slot for morning?
> usually from sunrise to about 11:00/11:30 am.
> 
> - 4. What is the timing slot for evening?
> usually from 3:00 pm to about sunset.
> 
> - 5. I am not sure I understand the following Persian sentence.
> ساعت یک نصف شت.
> ساعت يك نصفه شب است.0 = it is 1:00 am
> 
> Does it mean it is 00 :30 am ?
> No,  we say 00:30 am   نيم ِ نصفه شب    ==> ساعت نيم نصفه شب است.
> 
> 
> - 6. Is there any simple way to express timing like am, pm in English instead of pointing out dust, evening, morning, etc.
> In formal contexts like news and mass media, 0-24 h is used; e.g. : به اخبار ساعت هجده توجه كنيد.0
> In conversation we use صبح، ظهر، بعد از ظهر، عصر، غروب ، شب ، نصفه شب after mentioning the time if needed.
> In writing the abbreviations are ق.ظ  and ب.ظ  which stand for قبل از ظهر and بعد از ظهر respectively.
> 
> Many thanks!
> خواهش ميكنم


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## fdb

صبح، ظهر، عصر، غروب ، شب are the names of the five daily prayers of the Muslims (dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, dusk). The exact times of each prayer are determined in the books on Islamic law.


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## Daffodil100

> - 4. What is the timing slot for evening?
> usually from 3:00 pm to about sunset.



I think you misread my words. What do you call for the slot from 3 pm to sunset in Persian?




> - 5. I am not sure I understand the following Persian sentence.
> ساعت یک نصف شت.



Literally  یک = 1 
 نصف = half

 شت = evening

Why does it mean 1: 00 am?

Thank you!


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## Daffodil100

fdb said:


> صبح، ظهر، عصر، غروب ، شب are the names of the five daily prayers of the Muslims (dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, dusk). The exact times of each prayer are determined in the books on Islamic law.



Thank you for the info. No wonder these words are taught in my textbook so earlier.


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## Daffodil100

ساعت یک نصف شت

I got it. 

It is ساعت یک نصف شت

I had thought it was ساعت یک نصف شت


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## SamiraFrancophile

Daffodil100 said:


> I think you misread my words. What do you call for the slot from 3 pm to sunset in Persian?
> 
> OK, we call it "عصر" and if it is near to sunset, we may call it also "غُروب".
> 
> 
> Literally  یک = 1
> نصف = half
> 
> شت = evening
> 
> Why does it mean 1: 00 am?
> 
> Thank you!


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## SamiraFrancophile

Daffodil100 said:


> ساعت یک نصف شت
> 
> I got it.
> 
> It is ساعت یک نصف شت
> 
> I had thought it was ساعت یک نصف شت
> 
> Oh, no... it is ساعت يك ِ نصفه شب است
> Normally in conversation we say ساعت يك ِ نصفه شب است, in formal it is "ساعت يك ِ صبح است" or "ساعت يك ِ بامداد است"
> 
> /Baamdaad/= dawn
> 
> Good Luck


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much, Samira.


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## Treaty

This is my understanding of saying the time when used WITH the hour number, note that some of them coincide:

12:01AM → 9AM = بامداد (usually in TV/radio): 00:30 → سی دقیقۀ بامداد
4AM → 11AM = صبح (and rarely for 1AM to 3AM) = morning
11AM → 2PM = ظهر (it is rare for 2PM) = noon
1PM → 6PM = بعد از ظهر (less often for 7PM, if it's not dusk) = afternoon
5PM → 7PM = عصر (rarely 4PM and 8PM) = usually before dusk
7PM → 2AM = شب = evening + night
12AM → 3AM = نصف شب (also بعد از نصف شب for after 12AM) or نیمه شب (which a bit more literary/formal) midnight + after midnight



fdb said:


> صبح، ظهر، عصر، غروب ، شب are the names of the five daily prayers of the Muslims (dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, dusk). The exact times of each prayer are determined in the books on Islamic law.



The first three are names of mandatory prayers. However, the other two prayers are usually called مغرب and عشا. The نماز شب (night-time prayer) is not a mandatory prayer.


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much, Treaty.


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## Qureshpor

Persian speakers and Persian learners might find it interesting to learn that once upon a time (perhaps 30-40 years ago!), the following underlined words for the prayer times were quiet common for Punjabi and perhaps even Urdu speakers of India and Pakistan.

1) namaaz-i-saHar-gaah
2) namaaz-i-peshiin 
3) namaaz-i-diigar 
4) namaaz-i-shaam
5) namaaz-i-xuftan


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> Persian speakers and Persian learners might find it interesting to learn that once upon a time (perhaps 30-40 years ago!), the following underlined words for the prayer times were quiet common for Punjabi and perhaps even Urdu speakers of India and Pakistan.
> 
> 1) namaaz-i-saHar-gaah
> 2) namaaz-i-peshiin
> 3) namaaz-i-diigar
> 4) namaaz-i-shaam
> 5) namaaz-i-xuftan


 Not from where we are, though _namaaz-e-shab_ (_shab kii namaaz_) or _namaaz-e-SubH_ (_SubH kii namaaz_) were used. However, we always stuck to these:
fajr (فجر) 
Zuhr (ظهر)
3aSr (عصر)
maGhrib (مغرب)
3ishaa' (عشاء)

But as for timings in general are  concerned, we followed the schedule & the terms that aaGhaa-e-treaty mentioned:

4AM → 11AM = صبح (and rarely for 1AM to 3AM) = morning  <--- but also SubH-e-Saadiq for early dawn, rarely bamdaad or kalla-e-SubH.
11AM → 2PM = ظهر (it is rare for 2PM) = noon
1PM → 6PM = بعد از ظهر (less often for 7PM, if it's not dusk) = afternoon
5PM → 7PM = عصر (rarely 4PM and 8PM) = usually before dusk
7PM → 2AM = شب = evening + night
12AM → 3AM = نصف شب (also بعد از نصف شب for after 12AM) or نیمه شب


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much for your replies.


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## fdb

Qureshpor said:


> Persian speakers and Persian learners might find it interesting to learn that once upon a time (perhaps 30-40 years ago!), the following underlined words for the prayer times were quiet common for Punjabi and perhaps even Urdu speakers of India and Pakistan.
> 
> 1) namaaz-i-saHar-gaah
> 2) namaaz-i-peshiin
> 3) namaaz-i-diigar
> 4) namaaz-i-shaam
> 5) namaaz-i-xuftan



I was extremely interested to hear this. In Early New Persian these same words were used as Persian (as opposed to Arabic) names for the prayer times, and for the corresponding times of the day, except only for the dawn prayer, which was called _bāmdāδ_. In modern Iran only _šām_ seems to have survived as a Persian name for a prayer time.


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## Qureshpor

fdb said:


> I was extremely interested to hear this. In Early New Persian these same words were used as Persian (as opposed to Arabic) names for the prayer times, and for the corresponding times of the day, except only for the dawn prayer, which was called _bāmdāδ_. In modern Iran only _šām_ seems to have survived as a Persian name for a prayer time.


fdb SaaHib, I shall start a new thread on these prayer times in Punjabi/Urdu section of the forum where I shall provide a few more details. Suffice it to say here that in Modern Persian "shaam" is almost extinct for evening and has taken on the meaning of evening meal instead.


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