# Urdu/Hindi: made vs make a difference



## Sheikh_14

Dear Foreros,

In terms of when something has made a difference we use the term farq paRnaa to mean exactly that. However, with regards to making a difference could we possibly say farq paRwaanaa or paRaanaa? For instance us ke aane se bohat farq paRtaa hai- his/her being there made a difference. Woh farq paRaane/paRwaane waalaa/ii shaxs hai, kaam kar jaaye baghair us ko need nahiiN aatii? Also how we say someone proved "the difference" be it for better or for worse?

Best Regards,
Sheikh


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## littlepond

Can you make a complete English sentence in a context with your "making a difference", please? I am unable to follow your question.


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## Sheikh_14

Sure, Van Persie's (a footballer) arrival at Manchester United truly made a difference in their title fortunes.


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## littlepond

You will have to say "Van Persie ke Manchester United meN aa jaane se unkaa naseeb hii badal gayaa hai/unke naseeb meN fark paRaa hai" - something like that.


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## tonyspeed

You could probably also use "asar honaa" here.


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## littlepond

tonyspeed said:


> You could probably also use "asar honaa" here.



Excellent suggestion!


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## amiramir

Would asar daalna imply even more of the 'making' of a difference (vis a vis asar hona)?


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## marrish

amiramir said:


> Would asar daalna imply even more of the 'making' of a difference (vis a vis asar hona)?


Cannot be better than this. Finally.

asar Daalnaa is the opposite of asar paRnaa
farq Daalnaa is the opposite of farq paRnaa.


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## amiramir

marrish said:


> Cannot be better than this. Finally.



I am unexpectedly very proud of myself after having read your comment. It's not often I can chime in on Hindi-Urdu nuance.


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## littlepond

In the sentence in post no. 3, whether you use "asar honaa", "asar paRnaa or "asar Daalnaa" - it doesn't lend a greater impact in any of the cases, in my opinion. (Of course, since "asar Daalnaa" is the opposite of "asar paRnaa", as said by marrish jii, you would have to recast the sentence.) In fact, _in this context_, I would say "asar paRnaa" is the best option - marginally more difference being made.

In this context, in fact, "asar Daalnaa" feels a bit awkward to me: "Van Persie ke aagman ne Manchester United ke naseeb pe bahut asar Daalaa hai" sounds a bit strange. Usually, "asar Daalnaa" happens on someone's vartaav, vyav-haar, dimaag, etc. Also on a "paristhitii", but on "naseeb", it's a bit strange. Though maybe I'm overthinking!


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## marrish

Sheikh_14 said:


> Dear Foreros,
> 
> In terms of when something has made a difference we use the term farq paRnaa to mean exactly that. However, with regards to making a difference could we possibly say farq paRwaanaa or paRaanaa? For instance us ke aane se bohat farq paRtaa hai- his/her being there made a difference. Woh farq paRaane/paRwaane waalaa/ii shaxs hai, kaam kar jaaye baghair us ko need nahiiN aatii? Also how we say someone proved "the difference" be it for better or for worse?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Sheikh


@amiramir has lifted the veil so the sentences must be "farq Daalnaa", "farq Dalwaanaa" if you need the latter.

us ke aane se bahut farq paRtaa hae - 'as if it mattered that he comes'.
اس کے آنے سے بہت فرق پڑتا ہے = قطعی فرق نہیں پڑتا،
wuh farq Daalne waalaa hae jo shaxs mu3aamale meN farq Daale = a person bringing in a difference. qat3ii farq nahiiN paRtaa.
وہ فرق ڈالنے والا ہے جو شخص معاملہ میں فرق ڈالے

kaam kiye baGhair us ko niiNd nahiiN aatii.
چاہے اُسے کام کیے بغیر نیند ہی کیوں نہ آتی ہو

farq Daalne waalaa = تفرقہ ڈالنے والا، پھُوٹ ڈالنے والا، خلل ڈالنے والا tafriqah Daalne waalaa, phuuT Daalne waalaa, xalal Daalne waalaa.

farq paRtaa hae = it matters, makes a difference.
اُسے فرق پڑتا ہے۔

but,

fulaaN siyaasat-daan kii 3izzat meN farq paR gayaa = 3izzat meN xalal aayaa, zawaal-e-3izzat hu'aa, izzat meN kamii aa'ii, 3izzat ghaT ga'ii.
فلاں سیاستداں کی عزّت میں فرق پڑ گیا = عزّت میں خلل آیا، زوالِ عزت ہوا، عزت میں کمی آئی، عزّت گھٹ گئی

عزت، شہرت، پاکدامنی، راستگوئی، صداقت میں فرق آنا، ہونا، پڑنا = گھٹنا، کمتر ہو جانا
دوستی، جذبات، تعلقات، روابط، علیک سلیک میں فرق آنا وغیره یعنی بدلنا، ہل جانا، خراب ہو جانا، زوال پذیر ہونا۔
3izzat, shuhrat, paak-daamanii, raast-go'ii, sadaaqat meN farq aanaa/honaa/paRnaa = ghaTnaa, kamtar ho jaanaa.
dostii, jazbaat, ta3alluqaat, rawaabit, 3alaik salaik meN farq aanaa etc. = badalnaa, hil jaanaa, xaraab ho jaanaa, zawaal~paziir honaa.

[added some missing transliteration on edit]


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## desi4life

littlepond said:


> Usually, "asar Daalnaa" happens on someone's vartaav, vyav-haar, dimaag, etc.



I think you meant to write *bartaav *because *vartaav *doesn't exist as a word in dictionaries. *vartaav *is either a typo, mispronunciation, or dialectical influence.


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## Sheikh_14

And for to prove the difference, Us kaa honaa/wujuud hii farq saabit howaa? Farq Daalnaa is indeed apt so thank you for that!PaRnaa = something to occur so wouldn't paRaanaa/paRwaanaa technically mean to do so forcefully. It may not be used much, if at all, but it doesn't seem inherently wrong.


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## littlepond

desi4life said:


> I think you meant to write *bartaav *because *vartaav *doesn't exist as a word in dictionaries. *vartaav *is either a typo, mispronunciation, or dialectical influence.



I did mean "bartaav", but for me both "bartaav" and "vartaav" are fine, as dictionaries only follow (and quite lag behind) a language: it is how real people speak, what you call as "dialectical influence", which is language. Anyway, this is not the place to discuss that.


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## desi4life

littlepond said:


> I did mean "bartaav", but for me both "bartaav" and "vartaav" are fine, ...



*bartaav *is from the verb *bartaanaa*. If *vartaav *is fine, is *vartaanaa *also fine? Thanks.


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## Sheikh_14

Let's stick to the original matter at hand, that has for the most part been handled save some minor issues. I am sure though Little pond will oblige with your request.


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## littlepond

desi4life said:


> If *vartaav *is fine, is *vartaanaa *also fine? Thanks.



It is not only fine, but also used!


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## mundiya

desi4life said:


> *bartaav *is from the verb *bartaanaa*. If *vartaav *is fine, is *vartaanaa *also fine? Thanks.



Per standard usage, vartaav/vartaanaa are mispronunciations.

Anyway, getting back to the topic: to answer Sheikh jii's last question, I don't think "farq paRaanaa" is right. It sounds awkward. As marrish jii said, it has to be "farq Daalnaa" to convey the opposite meaning.


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## littlepond

And in any case "paRaanaa" does not exist; only "paRvaanaa" exists, which is not a commonly used word itself.


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## mundiya

^ "paRaanaa" does exist, but I just don't feel it would be used with "farq".

H پڙانا पड़ाना _parānā_ (caus. of _paṛnā_), v.t. To cause to lie down, cause to repose; to lay down, put to sleep; to knock down, cause to drop; to pluck, cull, gather (fruit, &c.).


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## hectacon

littlepond said:


> Excellent suggestion!



It would mean " Made an impact" or "have an positive effect"  has made an difference would fit in this context. His inclusion has made a difference would mean Uske aane se team ke khel me sakaaraatmak badlaao ya fark aaya hai .


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## littlepond

mundiya said:


> ^ "paRaanaa" does exist, but I just don't feel it would be used with "farq".
> 
> H پڙانا पड़ाना _parānā_ (caus. of _paṛnā_), v.t. To cause to lie down, cause to repose; to lay down, put to sleep; to knock down, cause to drop; to pluck, cull, gather (fruit, &c.).



Thanks, mundiya jii; never knew that it existed.


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## Sheikh_14

Well both exist and thanks to the both of you, this has now been confirmed. In either case paRaanaa and parwaanaa mean causing the act of paRnaa. Woh us ke Piiche paR gayaa taa. Us Ko piiche paRwaayaa/paRaayaa gayaa Hai. In one case someone was pursuing another, in the latter he/she was made to do so perhaps by financial lubricants.


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## Sheikh_14

Maarish saaHiib's post is quite insightful though I would add that whilst izzat par farq paRnaa alone has negative connotations, further elaboration could change that. Us ke izzat meiN farq paRaa behtarii kii jaanib as opposed to bad-tarii kii jaanib or ke liiye would mean for the better. You could also say baraa'e behtarii farq aayaa which would again mean for the better


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## littlepond

^ For positive, one would use "izzat meN fark aayaa": no "paRaa".

And even if "paRaayaa" and "paRvaanaa" _exist_, that does not mean that you should use them!


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## Sheikh_14

farq aayaa alone could suggest either situation, izzat meiN farq anaa can be both negative or positive rather than this or that alone. As per your argument with paRnaa, paRaayaa and paRwaanaa, your intial argument was that they do not exist. When it turns out they in fact do, you have begun clutching at straws. All that matters in reality is that do the words exist, yes, are they intelligible, yes. Initially I wasn't sure they existed which is why I put forth the question, now that I know they do, there is no ambiguity. So in that regard, a big thank you to you and mundiyaa jee for you both have been royally helpful in that regard. Your current argument is based upon personal likes and dislikes rather than reason alone. Logically speaking, whilst paRaanaa and PaRwaanaa are not used much they do exist because such a pattern exists in Hindi-Urdu for them to come to fruition. If they exist and mean exactly what they were meant to convey, than no issue remains. You can argue for where it ought to be and ought not to be used but to say that a perfectly acceptable word shan't be used is merely a whim.


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## littlepond

^ I am sorry; I thought you needed help, that's why I offered my advice to not to use "paRaaya" or "paRvaanaa", and I guess all other contributors here would give you the same advice. (By the way, I only felt that "paRaayaa" didn't exist; "paRvaanaa" was never in question.)

I have no animosity towards these words and so I don't need to clutch at any straws. If you want to use a very odd-sounding Hindi, you are welcome to it.

"izzat meN farq aanaa" is _usually_ positive, but yes it can be negative too. However, "izzat meN farq paRnaa" is even more usually negative, and it is hard to use this phrase with a positive meaning, as a native speaker would use some other expression in that case.


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