# plural of برنامج



## randomfuoco

Hi, I couldn't find in my dictionary if برنامج has a regular plural برنامجون or something funky.

Thanks for the help.


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## WadiH

randomfuoco said:


> Hi, I couldn't find in my dictionary if برنامج has a regular plural برنامجون or something funky.
> 
> Thanks for the help.



The plural is برامج (_baraamij_). It's very rare for a non-human to have a regular masculine plural.


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## randomfuoco

Thanks! Couple quick questions then. Is this a m or f word? Because it is a nonhuman plural will any verb following it be conjugated as feminine singular? 

Also, why does the ن drop out? Could you tell me what the جذر is and what it means?


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## WadiH

randomfuoco said:


> Thanks! Couple quick questions then. Is this a m or f word? Because it is a nonhuman plural will any verb following it be conjugated as feminine singular?



It's masculine but, because it is non-human, its plural form will be treated as singular feminine.  So, as you've correctly noted, the verbs and adjectives that follow it will be feminine singular.



> Also, why does the ن drop out? Could you tell me what the جذر is and what it means?



All five consonants in this word are "original" (أصلية).  However, Arabic broken plural patterns and verb patterns are all built for three/four letter roots.  That's why you need to omit a consonant in the middle in order to form verbs and broken plurals.  The consonant that people have chosen to omit for this particular word happens to be ن.

Like most Arabic words that cannot be reduced to three or four-letter roots, the word برنامج originates from another language.  In this case, that language is Persian.  Apparently, a برنامه was a sheet of paper used to tally up numbers:
http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=برنامج


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## randomfuoco

Very enlightening  thanks.


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## Sidjanga

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The plural is برامج (...)


What happens to the ن here? Why does it simply "disappear"? (I've just found that the same phenomemon occurs with other derivatives, like مبرمج).


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## OPENED EYES

sidjanga said:


> what happens to the ن here? Why does it simply "disappear"? (i've just found that the same phenomemon occurs with other derivatives, like مبرمج).


 سلام:
*برنامج = برامج =جمع تكسير =لايوجد في جمع التكسير نون*

*مبرمج = مبرمجين = جمع مذكر سالم = يوجد نون الجمع*​


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## WadiH

Sidjanga said:


> What happens to the ن here? Why does it simply "disappear"? (I've just found that the same phenomemon occurs with other derivatives, like مبرمج).





Wadi Hanifa said:


> All five consonants in this word are "original" (أصلية).  However, Arabic broken plural patterns and verb patterns are all built for three/four letter roots.  That's why you need to omit a consonant in the middle in order to form verbs and broken plurals.  The consonant that people have chosen to omit for this particular word happens to be ن.


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## nourkamel

randomfuoco said:


> Hi, I couldn't find in my dictionary if برنامج has a regular plural برنامجون or something funky.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


 

hi 

the word برنامج is wrong and the correction is برمانج bacause we say البرمجة and not البرنجة

a programmer مبرمج
a programme  برمانج
 programmation البرمجة


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## Sidjanga

nourkamel said:


> the word برنامج is wrong and ...


Does anyone agree - or decidedly disagree - with this?


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## إسكندراني

برمانج is never used (I've never seen or heard it)
برنامج is commonly used
the other words she referenced are fine. Since this word seems to be foreign in origin, it is acceptable for its derivatives to be peculiar, not following the typical patterns.


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## Mahaodeh

بل هو برنامج معرّب عن برنامة الفارسية والكلمة موجودة في القاموس المحيط الذي أُلّف قبل 700 عام. أما البرمجة وغيرها فقد اشتقت من الاسم ولزم تقصيرها لعدم وجود أفعال من جذور خماسية ولفعل ذلك حذفت النون. لا يجوز تعديل الاسم على الفعل لأن الفعل اشتُقّ من الاسم وليس العكس


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## Faylasoof

Yes, the Arabic  *برنامج* is indeed related to the Persian *برنامہ *\* برنامه*, pronounced _bar-naame*h* _in Persian or _bar-naama*h* _in Urdu. It is a composite of *نامہ* and the prefix *بر*, where the former (*نامہ*) is itself derived from the Pahlavi Persian *نامگ*_ naama*g*_. 

 Most likely, going from the earlier Persian form (*نامگ*_ naama*g*_) to Arabic resulted in a *گ* (*g* sound) to *ج* shift (*j* sound), given that _fus7a_ doesn’t have a *گ* (*g*) sound, to give us *نامج *(_naama__*j*_) in the word *برنامج *. This گ to ج shift may also be present in some other words too.


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## Xence

أتفق تماما مع وادي  ومها وفيلسوف في كون كلمة _*برنامج *_من أصل فارسي كما ورد ذلك في _القاموس المحيط_، وأضاف صاحب _تاج العروس_ أنه قد يقصد بها "_ الزمام الذي يرسم فيه متاع التجَّار وسلعهم _".. والكلمة متداولة منذ عدة قرون، ليس في ذلك أدنى ريب، ويكفي الاستدلال بالكتاب الموسوم "برنامج المجاري" لصاحبه أبي عبد الله المجاري الأندلسي المتوفّى في القرن الخامس عشر​


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## WadiH

Sidjanga said:


> Does anyone agree - or decidedly disagree - with this?



Obviously, what she said is incorrect.  The word برمانج does not exist, and Maha and I have already explained why the verbal and plural forms of this word are the way they are.


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## Faylasoof

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Obviously, what she said is incorrect.  The word برمانج does not exist, and Maha and I have already explained why the verbal and plural forms of this word are the way they are.



I quite agree, برمانج doesn’t exist -it simply can’t given its etymology. 

Anyway, just a clarification for the sake of accuracy and nothing else. The origin of برنامج  is  بر نامگ  and not برنامة , i.e. no ة. Going from Middle to Modern Persian you see a change from *گ* to *ه* ending, hence the *ه* ending seen now. However, the latter ending is also seen in going from Arabic ة ending words to *ه* ending words in Persian and Urdu, e.g.  برنامجة is spelt برنامجه below when referring to Arabic usage. 

Here is the reference from  لغت نامه دهخد (_loghatnameh dehkhuda_) – a reliable and respected Persian lexicon - for برنامه as origin for برنامج and of course برنامجة, including a mention that the latter two are معرّب , as Maha mentioned above.


*برنامه* . [ ب َ م َ /  م ِ ] (اِ مرکب ) (از: بر، پیشوند + نامه ) به معنی سرنامه ، یعنی آنچه بر سر کتابتها و نامه ها نویسند و به عربی القاب و عنوان گویند.(برهان ) (آنندراج ). برنامج و برنامجه معرب آنست . (از آنندراج ). عنوان و لقب و دیباچه و آنچه بر سر کتاب و یا نامه نویسند. (ناظم الاطباء). بندنامه . سحا. لقب . سجاغ . پاشنامه . پاچنامه . پاژنامه . ورنامه . || ترتیب کتاب از ابواب و مباحث و فصول ، و آنرا پهرست نیز گویند که فهرست معرب آنست . (از آنندراج ). || دیباچه و مقدمه . (فرهنگ فارسی معین ):​ ز نسل هشت ملک زاده تا بهشت هزار​ ز طول عمر تو برنامه ٔ شمار تو باد.​


Xence said:


> أتفق تماما مع وادي  ومها وفيلسوف في كون كلمة _*برنامج *_من أصل فارسي كما ورد ذلك في _القاموس المحيط_، وأضاف صاحب _تاج العروس_ أنه قد يقصد بها "_ الزمام الذي يرسم فيه متاع التجَّار وسلعهم _".. والكلمة متداولة منذ عدة قرون، ليس في ذلك أدنى ريب، ويكفي الاستدلال بالكتاب الموسوم "برنامج المجاري" لصاحبه أبي عبد الله المجاري الأندلسي المتوفّى في القرن الخامس عشر​



شكراً جزيلاً   زنس \ خنس​


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## Xence

You're welcome, Faylasoof.



			
				Faylasoof said:
			
		

> It is a composite of نامہ and the prefix بر, where the former (نامہ) is itself derived from the Pahlavi Persian نامگ naamag.



Is this the same structure as for the word رزنامة or روزنامة (_calendar_) which is also widely used nowadays in Arabic  ?


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## Faylasoof

Xence said:


> You're welcome, Faylasoof.
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof*
> It is a composite of نامہ   and the prefix بر, where the former (نامہ) is itself derived from the Pahlavi   Persian نامگ naamag. = book / ledger / letter.
> Is this the same structure as for the word رزنامة or روزنامة (_calendar_) which is also widely used nowadays in Arabic ?
Click to expand...

 Yes Xence! This is exactly the same structure (although روزنامه has a different meaning for us!) comprising of نامة \ نامه preceded by either a particle (بر) or another word like روز (=day) or سفر (=travel) etc. Of course the Persian-Urdu برنامہ means the same as the Arabic برنامج = program.


Please feel free to post more related queries you and others may have about نامه and its compounds, arising from this discussion, in the IIL (Indo-Iranian Languages) forum and we shall be delighted to answer you there. نامه forms quite a few compounds.


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## Xence

Thanks a lot, Faylasoof.
I'll be sure to post there when need be.


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