# 夕として飲まざる無し。



## Starfrown

無夕不飲
夕として飲まざる無し。
 
My _Kanbun_ text provides the above rendering of the Chinese. There are two issues that I would like to have resolved.
 
Firstly, として seems to be functioning as little more than a topic marker here, meaning literally "making [the topic] evenings" or, freely, "speaking of evenings." Of course, it usually functions in comparative statements. Ex: 
 
先生として若い。"He's young for a teacher." (I don't know whether he's a teacher or not.)
 
Secondly, 飲まざる must be the 連体形 of 飲まず with an implied の, which would of course refer back to 夕.
 
In conclusion, I offer this somewhat literal translation:
 
"As for evenings, there is not one(=implied の) on which [ I ] do not drink."
 
Do you think my analysis is correct?


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## kaito

Starfrown said:


> Secondly, 飲まざる must be the 連体形 of 飲まず with an implied の, which would of course refer back to 夕.



飲まざる = 飲む in its 未然形 ＋ざる, another negative ending.
I don't have the slightest idea about the difference between ず、　ざる、　ない.

By the way, I would end up with the same translation but that might be pure luck on my side because I can't say I really understand it.

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Hmm, well it's quite interesting so I looked it up. Actually ざる is ず in its 連用形 + ある.
My guess is they used to add ある to many auxiliary verbs to make conjugation more consistent. ず's own 連体形 is (surprise, surprise) ぬ


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## Wishfull

Starfrown said:


> 無夕不飲
> 夕として飲まざる無し。
> 
> My _Kanbun_ text provides the above rendering of the Chinese. There are two issues that I would like to have resolved.
> 
> Firstly, として seems to be functioning as little more than a topic marker here, meaning literally "making [the topic] evenings" or, freely, "speaking of evenings." Of course, it usually functions in comparative statements. Ex:
> 
> 先生として若い。"He's young for a teacher." (I don't know whether he's a teacher or not.)
> 
> Secondly, 飲まざる must be the 連体形 of 飲まず with an implied の, which would of course refer back to 夕.
> 
> In conclusion, I offer this somewhat literal translation:
> 
> "As for evenings, there is not one(=implied の) on which [ I ] do not drink."
> 
> Do you think my analysis is correct?



My 漢文's marks was not so good in my high school days, and I'm not sure but,

夕として飲まざるなし
＝（お酒がとてもおいしいので）一晩としてのまない日はない。
＝毎晩お酒をのむ

I drink every night.
There is no night when I don't drink.
There is no possibility that I don't drink *per* a 
night.

I think this *per*=として


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## Ocham

This is one of the three functions of ～として. It is very distinctive because 
it is always followed by double negation, implying strong affirmation.

　 一人として泣かない者はなし
＝一人として泣かざる者なし
　 There's no one who doesn't cry.

So the original sentence roughly means:
Not a single night passed that I didn't drink.


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## Starfrown

kaito said:


> 飲まざる = 飲む in its 未然形 ＋ざる, another negative ending.
> I don't have the slightest idea about the difference between ず、　ざる、　ない.
> 
> By the way, I would end up with the same translation but that might be pure luck on my side because I can't say I really understand it.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hmm, well it's quite interesting so I looked it up. Actually ざる is ず in its 連用形 + ある.
> My guess is they used to add ある to many auxiliary verbs to make conjugation more consistent. ず's own 連体形 is (surprise, surprise) ぬ


I have some experience with Classical Japanese. I was perhaps not technical enough in my original post, but I simply did not feel it was necessary to give a full account of the form 飲まざる. It is, as you say:

未然形 of 飲む＋連用形 of ず＋連体形 of あり-->飲まずある (by contraction)-->飲まざる

All 形容詞 and certain 助動詞 have compound forms created by affixing あり to the 連用形. Certain other 助動詞 can then be affixed to this form. Here's the conjugation of ず:

未然形 --- * ざら 
連用形 ず（に）* ざり
終止形 ず * ---
連体形 ぬ * ざる
已然形 ね * ざれ
命令形 --- * ざれ

(For prettier 助動詞活用表, check out this page.)

The forms _ni_, _nu_, and _ne _were originally, I believe, from a different auxiliary verb but became merged with the conjugation of _zu_ over time in much the same way that _went_ and _go_ came to be forms of the same verb in English.

The negative _nai _fulfills the role of both the 終止形 and 連体形 in Modern Japanese, as you know. I don't think there's any substantial difference in meaning between _nai_ and _zu_--the former is simply a post-classical development.

The main point I'm concerned with is the use of the 連体形 in this particular sentence. Since it is used before 無し, I think that there must be an implied nominal here in order for the sentence to make sense. I know that Classical Japanese allowed the use of the 連体形 with an implied nominal--I simply need to know whether that analysis is correct in this case.
----


Ocham said:


> This is one of the three functions of ～として. It is very distinctive because
> it is always followed by double negation, implying strong affirmation.
> 
> 一人として泣かない者はなし
> ＝一人として泣かざる者なし
> There's no one who doesn't cry.
> 
> So the original sentence roughly means:
> Not a single night passed that I didn't drink.


So what then does として literally mean in this case? What are the three functions?

What do you think of Wishfull's translation "per"?

Thanks to Wishfull and Ocham for the very good information already provided.


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## kaito

Starfrown said:


> The forms _ni_, _nu_, and _ne _were originally, I believe, from a different auxiliary verb but became merged with the conjugation of _zu_ over time



Now that you mention it, it sounds quite possible.
Are there any sources that lead you to that guess other than the difference in the consonant ?


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## Starfrown

kaito said:


> Now that you mention it, it sounds quite possible.
> Are there any sources that lead you to that guess other than the difference in the consonant ?


I have a vague recollection of reading it in Shirane's "Classical Japanese: A Grammar" a while back, so it's not exactly a guess. Unfortunately, I do not have that text in my possession any longer and it's not searchable online.


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## Ocham

The three functions are:
1) added to the noun, meaning "as ..."
彼は学者として知られている。He is well-known as a scholar.
2) followed by negation:
　　誰(dare)一人としてその会には現れなかった。Not a single person showed up 
at the meeting.
3) mostly combined with a state of mind 唖然として、呆然として、愕然として、
ほっとして These are simply 連用形 of とする、because we also have 
　唖然（呆然、愕然、ほっ）とする、とした
唖然(azen)として彼女は私を見た。She looked at me in surprise.
　 ほっとして安堵(ando)のため息をついた。(She) gave a sigh of relief.

I don't know what として is made up of in 1) and 2). But in 1) とする might 
originally be 終止形, because when we assume something, we often say 
"仮に彼を学者とすると suppose we consider him as a scholar". Or we say "仮に
彼を学者として見た場合", meaning almost the same thing.


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## Flaminius

Unfortunately, this quote is not the best example for the construction 無X不Y.  Let's take a look at 無悪不作 for the ease of explanation.

This is the _nom de guerre_ of an antagonist in a Chinese novel (『天龍八部』 by 金庸).  He is a super-villain that hesitates at no evil. The nickname is [There is] no 悪 ("evil") that he does not 作 ("do").  Stripping the construction of all rhetoric effects, 無X不Y basically means "for all X, Y applies."  The two negations turn the sentence into an universal affirmative.

The _kambun_ convention is to express the universal affirmative by inserting として after X and to put two negations at the end of the sentence (ざるなし).  This use of として is explained in this dictionary entry with terrible examples.


> *３* （下に打消しの語を伴って）例外なく全部である意を表す。「一人―生き残った者はいない」「一時(いっとき)―目が離せない」


The difference between our _kambun_ examples and the quotes from the dictionary is that the former nouns are unmodified while the latter ones take quantifiers.  They in fact offer up the likeliest condition (just one person; just one moment) for a statement to be true but immediately add that even with this easiest condition the statement cannot be true (did not survive; cannot take one's eyes off).  To my mind they achieve universal negation through rhetorical effects.  I regard this as a formal equivalent to も, だって, たりと etc. (well, the last one sounds quite formal but, to this native speaker, it is more common than として in this sense).

The _kambun_ quotes suggest that in ealier periods of the Japanese language として could achieve universal negation without quantifiers.  I think it is difficult to find it in Modern Japanese outside _kambun_ quotes.


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## Lamb67

偶有名酒 is the preceding sentence in the orignal Classic Chinese text I believe. It means that a nice drink is just a treat (in a long time so for a poor man like me I ) won't miss any possibity of having a drink at night. 無X不Y is still commonly used in modern Chinese.

To me, a 'night' could mean ' every single night' . 

Literally, Rarely have I a nice drink, so that not a single night (can be spent) without a drink.http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~shici/r32_xu.htm


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## Starfrown

Thanks to everyone for his contributions!

I see now that として is not simply a topic marker here.


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