# FR: <verbe>-je - inversion in the 1st person singular



## James Bates

How would I say "Am I lying?" in French? "Mens-je?"
And how would you pronounce it? Like "mange"?

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one. See also the following related discussions:
FR: je peux / je puis / puis-je
FR: Puis-je / Puis-j' - élision ?
FR: aimé-je


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## nofancypants

You would say "Est-ce que je mens" or "Je mens?" I don't think "mens-je" quite sounds right on its own, perhaps it's correct a native speaker will tell you that.
And you'd pronounce it with a silent N and S, like "mon jeh" in french.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Say: "Est-ce que je mens?" . "Mens-je?" sounds ridiculous. For many verbs it's impossible to use inversion, chiefly in the first person.


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## englishman

James Bates said:
			
		

> How would I say "Am I lying?" in French? "Mens-je?"
> And how would you pronounce it? Like "mange"?


At the risk of correction by a native, I'd say:

1. Yes, you can write "mens-je"

or

2. "Je mens ?" with stress on "mens"

or

3. "Est ce que je mens ?"

As for pronunciation, this Englishman would pronounce it rather like "mange" but with more stress on the "-ge" part i.e. something like "mon-ZHE", and with a very slight pause between the two parts.


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## Garbonzia

J.F. de TROYES said:
			
		

> Say: "Est-ce que je mens?" . "Mens-je?" sounds ridiculous. For many verbs it's impossible to use inversion, chiefly in the first person.


 
I aggre with you
A french will never say "mens-je?"


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## paulvial

bonsoir , 
actually no , as JF de Troyes said , there are many verbs for which the inversion is not used, and i am at a loss to explain the rule, not even sure there is one, other than it is avoided when it does not sound right (which is not much help to non natives, i know) . 
So at least when you can identify a potential confusion (as in this case with "manger" ), it is preferable to use an alternative such as "est ce que " or again as  already suggested by using an affirmative on an enquiring tone of voice.


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## nofancypants

I don't know, even though I'm a non native, I still thought "mens je" sounded a bit strange!  It is correct French though, just doesn't sound right when it is spoken :S


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## Joelline

I've asked lots of French friends which verbs can be used with inversion in the 1st person.  No one can give a definitive list; however, these are absolutely OK:

dois-je
puis-je
pourrais-je
sais-je (as in "Que sais-je?)

There are a couple of others on the list, but I've forgotten them for the moment (they're on my other computer).  But the ones above are the most common.


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## calembourde

I thought 'peux-je' was one, so I googled the phrase to make sure, and I found 155'000 results... however, the first one was this thread saying that peux-je doesn't exist, only puis-je. Some of the other results are where it's not really peux-je, but '...peux. Je...' but there are still plenty with 'peux-je'. So I guess it exists.


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## calembourde

Aah, I just remembered 'ai-je' is also okay (at least, I've heard it in a song and it's on a lot of websites.) I think 'dis-je' is too.


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## ChiMike

Joelline said:
			
		

> I've asked lots of French friends which verbs can be used with inversion in the 1st person. No one can give a definitive list; however, these are absolutely OK:
> 
> dois-je
> puis-je
> pourrais-je
> sais-je (as in "Que sais-je?)
> 
> There are a couple of others on the list, but I've forgotten them for the moment (they're on my other computer). But the ones above are the most common.


 
Note that the list is for frequently used modal verbs. And all of them end in "s" so that the final letter of the verb merges into the "je" with, usually, just a bit of prolongation or fortification of the sound.

Ai-je is also okay. But for most verbs in the first person inversion, you would go to the conditional: mentirais-je? voudrais-je? aurais-je? ressentirais-je telle remarque?

The est-ce que form, of course, avoids the entire problem. I usually use it.


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## justcurious

I'd just like to say that "peux-je" is definitely never used, only "puis-je" 
It seems to me that it works with "modal" verbs, as Chimike cleverly points out.
It also seems to me that "balbutiais-je" would be alright but, though I'm a native, I don't know the rule. Some help on this topic would be welcome


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## ChiMike

justcurious said:
			
		

> I'd just like to say that "peux-je" is definitely never used, only "puis-je"
> It seems to me that it works with "modal" verbs, as Chimike cleverly points out.
> It also seems to me that "balbutiais-je" would be alright but, though I'm a native, I don't know the rule. Some help on this topic would be welcome


 
Salut Just!
Oh, you have forced me to a cataclysmic decision - go to the bookshelf!  

Here is what Grevisse has to say (paragraph 709):

À la première personne du singulier de l'indicatif présent, l'inversion du sujet _je_, pronom atone, produit des locutions que l'usage n'admet pas en général, surtout quand il s'agit de monosyllabes. Ainsi on ne dira pas: _Cours-je? Prends-je? Sors-je? Mens-je? Pars-je? etc_.

On élude ces formes en recourant à la périphrase _est-ce que..._

Toutefois l'usage admet l'inversion de je après quelques verbes très usités: _Ai-je? Dis-je? Fais-je? Puis-je? (voir para. 674, 12) Suis-je? Sais-je? Vais-je? Vois-je? Veux-je?_ [Well! who would have guessed (!) since _peux-je_ poses a problem!]

That's the end of his list. What seems clear is that the inversion sounds wrong if there is a consonant sound between the verb and the "je", especially in monosyllables, as he says, but just in general it seems to me.
Thus, there is no problem with the conditional or the imperfect in the first person. And, although I do know that the "s" is not pronounced in any of these verb forms, I do believe that I detect a slight prolongation of the sound of "j" - or fortification of it to emphasize the inversion. But maybe I'm wrong and it's just what I do...


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## Gil

C'est vrai, mais pour rigoler, j'aime bien utiliser:
_Qu'ouïs-je, qu'entends-je ?_


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## justcurious

Où cours-je ? Dans quel état j'erre ?


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## ChiMike

justcurious said:
			
		

> Où cours-je ? Dans quel état j'erre ?


 
J'observe quelque chose d'autre à laquelle je n'avais pas pensé. Dans cette inversion, surtout formes ai-je, -ais-je, la voyelle se pronounce en avant dans la bouche, puis on glisse vers le fonds en prononçant le "je". Je trouve ce glissement très satisfaisant (sais pas pourquoi) et il explique, peut-être, pourquoi on a préféré "puis-je" dans l'usage et pourquoi je ne dirais moi-même pas "Veux-je" mais "Voudrais-je". Mais c'est évidemment un goût personnel.


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## justcurious

J'ajouterais que la terminaison en "euge" est très peu fréquente en français, peut-être me contredira-t-on ? A mon avis, c'est aussi pour ça que nous avons l'impression que ça sonne mal.
A part "Maubeuge" qui est un nom propre, je "sèche"


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## calembourde

Merci pour l'explication! 

Now, back to the topic of first-person inversions (hmm... would that be the biblical Adam doing a handstand?  ) I just realised that it's almost the same in English. We can ask:

Should I/Must I (must I sounds more formal, though)
can I
have I (either with a verb: 'have I eaten' or a noun: 'have I any apples', but 'have I any apples' sounds a bit weird, it would normally be 'have I got any apples' or 'do I have any apples'... see this thread)
Would I (with a verb... this is the equivalent of a conditional like mentirais-je)
Am I

But we can not say:

lie I?

It would have to be 'do I lie?' or 'am I lying?' (=est-ce que je mens?) or 'would I lie?' (=mentirais-je?) Same with most other verbs.

However French seems to be a bit more liberal with inversions, since you can say:

Sais-je? 
Vais-je? 
Vois-je? 
Veux-je

But with all of those you would have to say 'do I'+verb in English. Also, in English if an inversion is not possible in the first person then it isn't possible in the second or third person either.

So perhaps you can guess whether an inversion is possible just by testing the equivalent in English. At least, you probably won't come up with anything that sounds wrong in French, since there is no problem with saying 'est-ce que je sais/vais/vois/veux?'


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## James Bates

Can I say "Comment fais-je pour y aller?"
Or does it have to be "Comment est-ce je fais pour y aller?"


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## justcurious

James Bates :
I'd say the second "comment est-ce que je fais ?" and not "comment fais-je ?". I'd definitely never say "comment fais-je ?", except perhaps if I was trying (somewhat lamely  ) to be funny.


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## alaindelon

I read in a text that inversion with je sounds awkward and is usually not used except with devoir, avoir, pouvoir and être, however I still see here and there inversion with je used with other verbs.


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## hercules

Inversion is a lot more used in written French than in oral 
When you used inversion in spoken sentences, it looks like sophisticated.
Expect maybe for the verbs you quoted "Puis je avoir du vin"
Unsually for spoken language, you use "Est ce que ..."

But I think that it is more common to have inversions in written language (it looks normal)


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## Gardefeu

> I read in a text that inversion with je sounds awkward and is usually not used except with devoir, avoir, pouvoir and être,



A strange notion, this: inversions are possible with any verb in the French language. They sound awkward with every verb, or, as hercules explained, they sound stilted.
It's better to stick to the _Est-ce que_... form, in any circumstance... (and it's also so much easier to use!  )


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## Ev3

Except with 'pouvoir' if you speak to somebody and be polite: 'Puis-je avoir...'

But only if you want to seem well-mannered...


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## Lezert

On l'utilise aussi pour être plus emphatique, pour monter d'un degré dans une demande:
exemple, vous demandez du sel à un serveur 
 je pourrais avoir du sel s'il vous plait?
_ ( le serveur ne fait pas attention à vous)_
 Est-ce-que je pourrais avoir du sel s'il vous plait?
_ ( le serveur ne fait toujours pas attention à vous)_
* Puis-je avoir du sel s'il vous plait?*


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## jemappellekelly

Salut!

On apprend qu'on ne doit pas faire d'inversion avec la première personne du singulier, mais je l'entends assez souvent. Je sais que puis-je est acceptable... mais que dire des inversions avec les autres verbes? Est-ce que c'est une structure vieillie, familière, quoi? Pourquoi est-ce qu'on (ou les professeurs de grammaire, au moins) n'aime pas ce genre d'inversion? Est-ce que vous l'utilisez?

Et j'aimerais aussi savoir si on utilise la forme puis seulement lorsqu'on fait l'inversion.

Merci d'avance.


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## Qcumber

Voici quelques exemples où "je" est antéposé.

Ne vous avais-je pas dit qu'il ne voulait plus vous voir?
Quand donc reverrai-je mon enfant? 
Il n'est pas content. Que dis-je? Il est furieux.
Aurai-je le courage de vous dire la vérité?
N'allai-je point vous le proposer moi-même?
Quand pourrais-je obtenir une entrevue?

Toutes ces phrases relèvent de la langue classique. Le peuple ne parle plus comme ça. Seuls les gens instruits et distingués s'expriment ainsi quand il le faut.


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## charlie2

Is it correct/common to say "_Où avais-je la tête_?" in everyday language when, for example, I made a stupid mistake?


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## Nicomon

charlie2 said:


> Is it correct/common to say "_Où avais-je la tête_?" in everyday language when, for example, I made a stupid mistake?


 
Absolutely correct and quite common imho.  I would easily say:
_Mais où donc avais-je la tête? _


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## NewBeginning

How, exactly, would you do this? I know a lot of inversions using "je" sound... Odd, though some are okay (such as "puis-je"). However, how would one use a preposition with je? I looked around, but there is very little definite information.

Thanks in advance!


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## Punky Zoé

NewBeginning said:


> How, exactly, would you do this? I know a lot of inversions using "je" sound... Odd, though some are okay (such as "puis-je"). However, how would one use a preposition with je? I looked around, but there is very little definite information.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Could you please give us more details about your question? What kind of preposition do you want to use?


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## anangelaway

Bonjour NewBeginning,  

I'm not sure I understand your question.
However, some interesting previous discussion on the subject : Here. Those inversions are similar to :
- Can I....
- Should I...
- Would I...


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## Sarah_C

"puis-je" is an inversion of "je peux", which is used in interrogative sentences. I wonder if you were thinking also of the word "puis", which means "then"?


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## Qcumber

Sarah_C said:


> "puis-je" is an inversion of "je peux", which is used in interrogative sentences.


Indeed
*puis = peux *[pouvoir, indicative, present, sg., 1st & 2nd persons]

It has only survived in modern French in the frozen phrase *puis-je?* "may I?". *_Peux-je_ is never used.
_Puis-je?_ implies respect and is associated with _vous_, whereas _je peux?_ doesn't, and is basically associated with _tu_. Combining_ puis-je?_ with _vous _is possible. It reflects a middle-of-the-road approach.

*Puis-je vous emprunter votre stylo?* = May I borrow your pen, (Sir / Ma'am / Madam / Miss)?

*Je peux (vous) emprunter votre stylo?* = Can I borrow your pen, (Sir / Ma'am / Madam / Miss).

*J'peux (t')emprunter ton stylo?* = Can I borrow your pen?
[The sequence <j'p> is pronounced shp.]


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## NewBeginning

Oh! Sorry. I mean, it was just something that was on my mind... I meant, is something like "Oú suis-je?" or "Que suis-je?" applicable? My teacher said something along the lines of not using "je" in an inversion except with special verbs, such as pouvoir. Is that true?


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## Fred_C

NewBeginning said:


> Oh! Sorry. I mean, it was just something that was on my mind... I meant, is something like "Oú suis-je?" or "Que suis-je?" applicable? My teacher said something along the lines of not using "je" in an inversion except with special verbs, such as pouvoir. Is that true?


Yes it is. At least, it is not prohibited to use "je" with an inversion of any verb, but it is very rare, except with some special verbs :
être : suis-je
Pouvoir : puis-je
Devoir : dois-je
voir, (only in "que vois-je")
there may be other ones.


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## Qcumber

Fred_C said:


> Yes it is. At least, it is not prohibited to use "je" with an inversion of any verb, but it is very rare, except with some special verbs.


 
It all depends on the tense used. (1) and (2) are not that uncommon.

1) Pourquoi vous mentirais-je? = Why should I lie to you?
2) Pourquoi devrais-je payer pour les dégâts qu'il a commis? = Why should I pay for the damage he caused.

What is really rare is the _je_- inversion with the indicative present except in the frozen cases you mentioned. (3) obviously belongs to fiction or drama.

3) Mens-je pour te sauver ou te perdre encore plus? = Am I lying to save you or to undo you further?

The funny ones are with -_er_ verbs. An acute accent is added on the final <e>, but it is pronounced like a grave accent.

4) Aimé-je ou suis-je simplement envoûté par son argent?
= Am I in love or just enthralled by her money?

j'aime > aimé-je [mè]


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## zakare

I was wondering if when asking a question in the first person, if I can invert the "je" and the verb for any verb. And if so, what the rules are for if and when the verb changes.

For example:

Je peux? becomes Puis-je?

Thank you in advance.


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## Stéphane89

Yes, you can always invert the subject and the verb when asking a question when you want your sentence to sound more formal.

But there are some verbs which you can't easily put in the interrogative form in the 1st person like _'comprendre'_, you will not see _'comprends-je'_ every day. (but I'm sure you already know that).


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## Maître Capello

See this thread for verbs which end in -_e_ in the 1st person singular (mainly 1st-group verbs, i.e., ending in -_er_ in the infinitive) and which take an accent for euphony reasons.

_Aim*er*_ → J'aim*e* → _Aim*é*-je ?_ or _Aim*è*-je ?_ (the latter being allowed and recommended since the 1990 orthography rectification)

EDIT:
Anyway, no, it is not always possible to use such an inversion, e.g., _Meurs-je ?_ , _Cours-je ? _, _Finis-je ? _, _A-ce été ? _ must not be used (unless for some comical effect)… Also, apart from the accent thing described above, I think _pouvoir_ is the only verb that changes in the 1st person singular of the present when inverted: _je peux → puis-je_…


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## ascoltate

In school, I learned that the following are possible in everyday speech:
"Suis-je"
"Puis-je"
"Sais-je"
(and forms thereof: "Pourrais-je"/"Saurais-je"/"Serais-je" and maybe "ai-je"/"aurais-je")

Even these sound somewhat formal, but perhaps less so than with other verbs...


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## tilt

ascoltate said:


> In school, I learned that the following are possible in everyday speech:
> "Suis-je"
> "Puis-je"
> "Sais-je"
> (and forms thereof: "Pourrais-je"/"Saurais-je"/"Serais-je" and maybe "ai-je"/"aurais-je")
> 
> Even these sound somewhat formal, but perhaps less so than with other verbs...


They are, as long as you consider inverting the subject is still part of everyday speech.


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## Maître Capello

ascoltate said:


> In school, I learned that the following are possible in everyday speech:
> "Suis-je"
> "Puis-je"
> "Sais-je"
> (and forms thereof: "Pourrais-je"/"Saurais-je"/"Serais-je" and maybe "ai-je"/"aurais-je")



Yes, these are definitely possible… contrary to _Meurs-je ?_ , _Cours-je ? _, _Finis-je ? _…

In other words, *some* verbs can be inverted in the 1st person singular but others cannot.


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## stumerr

Quand j'apprenais le français il y a vingt-cinq ans, je crois qu'on m'a dit qu'il ne faut pas invertir la première personne du singulier pour le rendre interrogatoire, sauf avec pouvoir (Puis-je...)  "On ne se dit pas ainsi. Il faut 'est ce que' en ce cas la."  

J'ai tout a fait laissé a coté le français jusqu'à récemment, et maintenant je vois ce genre d'inversion partout dans Wordreference, avec n'importe quel verbe, mémé sur Google Translate!

Je sais bien que cette inversion était correcte d'autrefois.  L'histoire se répète?  Les français, ont-ils relâché/assoupli leur prise sur "le français correct," ou je me trompe d'autrement?


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## cropje_jnr

Ce type d'inversion relève souvent d'un ton assez soutenu, mais sinon c'est tout à fait correct. A mon avis ce que tu as appris il y a vingt-cinq ans était tout simplement faux.


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## stumerr

Merci Cropje! Oui, je me trompe souvent. Je me demande se c'est devenu plus "a la mode" depuis j'apprenais le français, il y a aussi longtemps? Ou rien a changé ?

C'est courant aussi au discour/ a la parole?  Spoken French


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## Lacuzon

Bonsoir,

En tout cas, vous avez de très beaux restes en français, félicitations !

Je pense que la règle que vous avez apprise concernait le français oral ; me trompé-je ? 

Trêve de plaisanterie, l'inversion avec la première personne est très correcte mais elle est beaucoup plus courante à l'écrit qu'à l'oral ; excepté effectivement dans le très poli puis-je ? qui se dit aussi à l'oral. En outre, l'inversion à la première personne du singulier avec les verbes du premier groupe n'appartient pour ainsi dire qu'à l'écrit car il faut transformer le e final du verbe en é, ce qui est très soutenu.


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## CapnPrep

stumerr, les fils suivants risquent de t'intéresser, et tu en trouveras pas mal d'autres en cherchant.
Est-ce que je cours / cours-je
Am I lying?
[...]


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