# ゴミ袋探してたけど、ないんだよね



## 82riceballs

Hi all,

I heard this sentence coming from one friend to another, and I have two questions about it:

1. My memory is fading, but it may have also been ゴミ袋探して*んだ*たけど、ないんだよね... which do you think is more likely? Does two んだ make the sense feel too heavy??

2. I find the んだよね part especially fascinating! I use this a lot without understanding it completely, so wanted to dissect it so I get a clearer understanding:
(a) ないんだ sounds like you're talking to yourself. You were searching and you couldn't find any. You mutter to yourself, (ゴミ袋)ないんだ
(b) ないんだよ sounds like you're talking to a friend. You're a bit annoyed, because your friend insists that there ARE garbage bags. But you don't see any, and you retort: いや、(ゴミ袋)ないんだよ！The tone of this is closer to いや、ないってば！("I said, there AREN'T any!!") than simply ゴミ袋ないよ, which sounds more like a statement.
(c) ないんだよね: here the ね softens the annoyed tone of (b), like "but I couldn't find any, ya know?"
----Is my interpretation of (a) (b) and (c) correct? With (b) I'm wondering if there are any other possible implications; I could only think of annoyance.

Any help is appreciated - I know this is a big question. Thank you so much!!


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## DaylightDelight

82riceballs said:


> 1. My memory is fading, but it may have also been ゴミ袋探して*んだ*たたんだけど、ないんだよね... which do you think is more likely? Does two んだ make the sense feel too heavy??


It should have been ゴミ箱探して*(る)んだ*けど(I'm looking for) or ゴミ袋探して*たんだ*けど(I was looking for).
Two んだ don't make the sentence too heavy.  Rather, they add a kind of symmetrical rhythm to the sentence.



82riceballs said:


> 2. I find the んだよね part especially fascinating! I use this a lot without understanding it completely, so wanted to dissect it so I get a clearer understanding:
> (a) ないんだ sounds like you're talking to yourself. You were searching and you couldn't find any. You mutter to yourself, (ゴミ袋)ないんだ
> (b) ないんだよ sounds like you're talking to a friend. You're a bit annoyed, because your friend insists that there ARE garbage bags. But you don't see any, and you retort: いや、(ゴミ袋)ないんだよ！The tone of this is closer to いや、ないってば！("I said, there AREN'T any!!") than simply ゴミ袋ないよ, which sounds more like a statement.
> (c) ないんだよね: here the ね softens the annoyed tone of (b), like "but I couldn't find any, ya know?"
> ----Is my interpretation of (a) (b) and (c) correct? With (b) I'm wondering if there are any other possible implications; I could only think of annoyance.


I think (a) is reasonable. It's a neutral statement without any emotional implication.

Your interpretation of (b) is too strong in this case. I think this is also a case of neutral statement.  Just telling your friend that there is no garbage bag.  Of course it largely depends on the context; if your friend has just told you to bring a f**king garbage bag, then you'd retort just as angrily.

When (b) is not really emotional, (c)'s function is not to soften the statement.  It's a mild request for an understanding/sympathy.
Your translation "but I couldn't find any, ya know?" seems good enough for me.
Generally, I tend to translate んだよね as "I guess ..." or "you know."


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## 82riceballs

DaylightDelight said:


> Your interpretation of (b) is too strong in this case. I think this is also a case of neutral statement. Just telling your friend that there is no garbage bag. Of course it largely depends on the context; if your friend has just told you to bring a f**king garbage bag, then you'd retort just as angrily.



Ahhh I see!! Since it is a neutral expression, could you tell me what you think is the difference between ないんだよ and ないよ?

To be more clear, let me break this down a little more- 
(1a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ。
(1b) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ？
(2a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ。
(2a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ？

What difference do you sense between (1a) and (2a)?
and (1b) and (2b)? (Is 1b even a real option? I don't think I've heard it.)

To me it seems like (2)s sound more direct - "there aren't any" whereas (1)s sound more like "hmm there aren't any".


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## DaylightDelight

82riceballs said:


> (1a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ。
> (1b) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ？
> (2a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ。
> (2b) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ？


For me, difference of (1)s and (2)s is that (2)s are more direct and neutral. (1)s put a little more emphasis on the fact that there is NOT a garbage bag.  (b)s add a "what now?" nuance to their respective counterpart.
I've been looking for a garbage bag, but ...
(1a) ... there ISN'T any.
(1b) ... there ISN'T any. What now?
(2a) ... there isn't any.
(2b) ... there isn't any. What now?​


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## Schokolade

82riceballs said:


> (1a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ。
> (1b) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないんだよ？
> (2a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ。
> (2a) ゴミ袋探してたん*だ*けど、ないよ？



As you may already know, the ん in ないんだよ is the "explanatory の", which often indicates a reason, cause, or explanation. So, ～んだよ kind of gives a nuance of explaining something, like "It's that..." or stating a reason, like "'Cause..." Here, (1a) ないんだよ。, with a falling tone, sounds like "There aren't any, (so this is why I'm in trouble.)" "There aren't any, (so I was looking everywhere.)" "There aren't any, (so I'm wondering why...)" etc.

(1b) ないんだよ？ , with a rising tone, sounds like "There aren't any, (so I'm in trouble, so what are we gonna do now?)" "There aren't any, (so I'm in trouble. Why aren't there any left?)" ～よ？ kind of gives a nuance of asking for an explanation or opinion. ないんだよ？ could sound even more irritated, or possibly complaining, or blaming someone, like saying, ないんだけど、どういうこと？ or ないんだよ、どうするの？

(2a) ないよ。 sounds like plainly stating the situation. While ないんだよ often has a nuance of irritation, ないよ usually doesn't, though it would depend on how it's said/pronounced/accented.

(2b) ないよ？, with a rising tone, would sound like "There aren't any, (did you know? / why is that? / what are we gonna do? etc.)"


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## 82riceballs

OK just one last question (I think haha) - 

We can make all these phrases formal just by changing だ to です right?
ゴミ袋探してたんですけど、ないんですよねー


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## Schokolade

Yes, your sentence sounds perfect.

(1) ゴミ袋探してたんだけど、ないんだよ。
-> ゴミ袋探してたん*です*けど、ないん*です*よ。
(2) ゴミ袋探してたんだけど、ないよ。
-> ゴミ箱探してたん*です*けど、ない*です*よ。/ ありませんよ。


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## 82riceballs

OK one final question (this time should be for real haha)

ゴミ袋探してたんだけど、
(1)…ないんだよね〜
(2)…ないよね〜

What difference do you sense between these two?

Here's what I, a non-native speaker, here:
(1) Sounds more like the speaker is just asking confirmation, less emotion.
(2) sounds a bit more emotional

What do you think?


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## DaylightDelight

82riceballs said:


> ゴミ袋探してたんだけど、
> (1)…ないんだよね〜
> (2)…ないよね〜


If you compare these two, (1) is more like a statement because んだ emphasises "there is not", (2) a bit like asking confirmation.
I think the emotion factor is a bit tricky here.  The difference between the sentences themselves is very subtle and how you say it play the bigger role in deciding the emotion they carry.

These can be a dialogue between two people:
A: ゴミ袋探してんだけど、ないんだよね〜 B: ないよね〜
A: I was looking for a garbage bag, but there aren't any. B: yeah, there aren't.

A: ゴミ袋探してんだけど、ないよね〜 B: ないんだよね〜
A: I was looking for a garbage bag, but there aren't any, are there? B: yeah, you're right, there aren't any.


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## 82riceballs

DaylightDelight said:


> If you compare these two, (1) is more like a statement because んだ emphasises "there is not", (2) a bit like asking confirmation.



Haha yes this is what I meant - I got it mixed up in my post.



DaylightDelight said:


> These can be a dialogue between two people:
> A: ゴミ袋探してんだけど、ないんだよね〜 B: ないよね〜
> A: I was looking for a garbage bag, but there aren't any. B: yeah, there aren't.
> 
> A: ゴミ袋探してんだけど、ないよね〜 B: ないんだよね〜
> A: I was looking for a garbage bag, but there aren't any, are there? B: yeah, you're right, there aren't any.



Wow this is very enlightening, thank you!


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## frequency

82riceballs said:


> ゴミ袋探してたんだけど、
> (1)…ないんだよね〜
> (2)…ないよね〜


ないんだよね（～） shows the result and your understanding: I couldn't find any, ya know.
ないよね（～） shows more confirmation or a question-like statement than ないんだよね, especially when you say ないよね？with a rising intonation.

ないよね without intonation? Two way:
1) still confirmation or a question-like statement
2) simple statement, roughly equal to ないんだよね (=I couldn't find any, ya know.)

Any emotional strength? No differences.


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