# I wish you didn't smoke/I wish you wouldn't smoke



## Otacon

What's de diference between these two and when do we use it?

_I wish you didn't smoke, but you do - Desearía que no fumaras, pero lo haces.


__I wish you wouldn't smoke - Desearía que no fumaras (?) _


I can't get the diference between them.

Thanks beforehand


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## loudspeaker

'Didn't smoke' is a concern for the person's health.
'Wouldn't smoke' is a concern for one's own discomfort.


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## sound shift

_I wish you didn't smoke _- A comment about the fact that the person likes to smoke. The words can be spoken when the person is smoking or when he/she is not.
_I wish you wouldn't smoke_ - Suggests to me that the person is smoking when these words are spoken, and that the speaker wishes to express his/her displeasure about this.


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## loudspeaker

Ok, perhaps I was not clear about what I said.

'I wish you didn't smoke'. - This one to me says that you smoke and I don't like it. 
'I wish you wouldn't smoke'.- This one more says that you are smoking now, and I don't like it, so please stop.


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## Otacon

Sound shift, Loudspeaker, your answers are quite clear and useful as always, thanks a lot


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## chamyto

Disculpad, pero al traducirlo (literalmente) al español no entiendo la segunda opción.

¿Se traducirían ambas frases de la misma manera?

Un saludo.


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## Peterdg

chamyto said:


> Disculpad, pero al traducirlo (literalmente) al español no entiendo la segunda opción.
> 
> ¿Se traducirían ambas frases de la misma manera?
> 
> Un saludo.


En el español de España, sí, la traducción es la misma.

En (partes de) América Latina (estoy seguro de Nicaragua, por ejemplo), harían la diferencia con:

I wish you didn't smoke <---> me gustaría que no fumaras

I wish you wouldn't smoke <--->  me gustaría que no fumarías

EDIT:

No sé si puedes apreciar la diferencia; quizás en el presente quede más claro:

No me gusta que fumas: estás fumando ahora mismo y no me gusta. (En España, no se diría así, pero en AL sí)

No me gusta que fumes: eres una persona que fuma y no me gusta; es posible que estés fumando ahora mismo o no, no importa, pero no me gusta.


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## Otacon

Hey, sorry to bother again but I forgot one last thing. What about:

_I wish you weren't smoking

_It is the same as "I wish you wouldn't smoke" isn't it?


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## maryjomw

The difference between 
I wish you wouldn't smoke
I wish you weren't smoking

The first sentence is basically asking the person to stop smoking in a passive way. It can be said as they were about to begin smoking, or while smoking.
The second sentence is an observation of how you feel that that person smokes or is smoking at the moment.


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## Otacon

A thousand thanks maryjomw


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## Indian Student

Hi friend Otacon, As far as I know 

I wish you wouldn't smoke : means you hope that he wouldn't smoke in future or later.


I wish you didn't smoke : means you don't want him to smoke now.


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## Mr.Dent

loudspeaker said:


> 'I wish you didn't smoke'. - This one to me says that you smoke and I don't like it.


I agree. 


loudspeaker said:


> 'I wish you wouldn't smoke'.- This one more says that you are smoking now, and I don't like it, so please stop.


This is correct. However, for clarification, it does not necessarily mean that somebody is smoking in your presence.


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## SevenDays

What I see:
_I wish you didn't smoke_ and _I wish you wouldn't smoke_ can be used whether the smoker you are addressing is actually smoking or not in your presence. That doesn't "trigger" the use of "didn't" or "wouldn't." Rather, it depends on the perspective taken by the speaker. "Didn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as factual (the other person *is* a "smoker"); "wouldn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as _potentially factual_, and that _potentiality_ becomes factual every time the smokers "smokes." In this sense, the question in this thread is remarkably similar to the Spanish subjunctive question here.


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## gengo

SevenDays said:


> What I see:
> _I wish you didn't smoke_ and _I wish you wouldn't smoke_ can be used whether the smoker you are addressing is actually smoking or not in your presence. That doesn't "trigger" the use of "didn't" or "wouldn't." Rather, it depends on the perspective taken by the speaker. "Didn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as factual (the other person *is* a "smoker"); "wouldn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as _potentially factual_, and that _potentiality_ becomes factual every time the smokers "smokes."



Exactly.  The "wouldn't" is the conditional form of "will," but that "will" is not the future tense, and instead has to do with volition.

Compare:
1. I will buy your refrigerator if you help me move it to my house.
2. I will buy your refrigerator if you will help me move it to my house.

In 1, we are just stating a condition, A if B.  In 2, there is a nuance of doing the speaker a favor, as in "if you would be so kind as to help me."  That is, "if you _want_ to help me."  "Will" as a noun has the meaning of desire.


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## Bevj

The difference I see:
I wish you didn't smoke - Me gustaría que no fueras fumador/a
I wish you wouldn't smoke - Me gustaría que no fumaras (right now or referring to a specific time., e.g. 'I wish you wouldn't smoke when the baby is in the room').


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## Mr.Dent

Bevj said:


> I wish you wouldn't smoke - Me gustaría que no fumaras (right now or referring to a specific time., e.g. 'I wish you wouldn't smoke when the baby is in the room').



Forgive me Bevj, but I respectfully disagree. It does not necessarily refer to a specific time. Someone who is, for example, concerned about your health might easily say 'I wish you wouldn't smoke' or 'I wish you wouldn't smoke at all' with no specific time frame named.


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## Bevj

Yes, Mr Dent, you are right.  I stand corrected


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## heybach

The last two messages got me confused now.

If it doesn't refer to a specific time and only to your concern about the smoker's health, I could use _didn't _and _wouldn't _interchangeably, couldn't I?
Or is it that the _didn't _option doesn't imply you're concerned?

*I wish you didn't/wouldn't smoke.*

Thanks.


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## gengo

heybach said:


> If it doesn't refer to a specific time and only to your concern about the smoker's health, I could use _didn't _and _wouldn't _interchangeably, couldn't I?
> Or is it that the _didn't _option doesn't imply you're concerned?
> 
> *I wish you didn't/wouldn't smoke.*


The difference is subtle, but it is that "would" here refers to volition.  "I wish you didn't smoke" is a simple statement; you are wishing for a situation in which the other person doesn't smoke.  "I wish you wouldn't smoke," by contrast, means that you wish the other person were willing not to smoke.  It's almost as if you are asking a favor of that person.

In the vast majority of situations, "wouldn't" is the natural-sounding choice here.  However, in the following examples, "didn't" sounds more natural.

I wish you didn't work on Saturdays.  (It isn't the choice of the other person, so no volition is involved.)
I wish you didn't have so many friends.


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## heybach

Thanks @gengo, you always so clarifying!


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## Forero

gengo said:


> The difference is subtle, but it is that "would" here refers to volition.  "I wish you didn't smoke" is a simple statement; you are wishing for a situation in which the other person doesn't smoke.  "I wish you wouldn't smoke," by contrast, means that you wish the other person were willing not to smoke.  It's almost as if you are asking a favor of that person.



This reminds me of that old conversation that starts with two parents in the front seat of a car and two young siblings in the back seat. One child says "Daddy, Billy won't stop taking my crayons." This is not a prognostication but a statement that Billy needs some parental persuasion.

The same child might tell Billy "I wish you would stop taking my crayons". "Would" here is just the appropriate past subjunctive form of the same verb as "won't", and the idea is for Billy to end his recalcitrance.


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## Rocko!

SevenDays said:


> "Didn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as factual (the other person *is* a "smoker"); "wouldn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as _potentially factual_, and that _potentiality_ becomes factual every time the smokers "smokes."



Esta parece una explicación bastante buena porque simplifica el problema, es decir, deja a un lado muchos usos y contextos, y permite que un estudiante del idioma elija más fácilmente.
Muy parecido a la siguiente explicación:





Depraetere, I.; Langford, C. (2020). _Advanced English Grammar: A Linguistic Approach_. Second Edition. Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. New York, USA.

Empleando el mismo orden de aparición, en mi ciudad diríamos las tres de ese libro así:
_Me gustaría que no fumaras/fumara _(más claro:_ "...que dejaras de fumar -para siempre-_").
_Me habría gustado que no hubiera(s)/hubiese(s) fumado. _(más claro: _"habría preferido que..._")
_Me gustaría que no fumes/fume_. (Más claro: "..._que no fume/s aquí/en este momento_").


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## heybach

Thanks @Forero! Great example! Gracias @Rocko!


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## Forero

SevenDays said:


> What I see:
> _I wish you didn't smoke_ and _I wish you wouldn't smoke_ can be used whether the smoker you are addressing is actually smoking or not in your presence. That doesn't "trigger" the use of "didn't" or "wouldn't." Rather, it depends on the perspective taken by the speaker. "Didn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as factual (the other person *is* a "smoker"); "wouldn't smoke" reflects what the speaker presents as _potentially factual_, and that _potentiality_ becomes factual every time the smokers "smokes." In this sense, the question in this thread is remarkably similar to the Spanish subjunctive question here.


That other thread involves a sentence in which a subjunctive is licensed by a superlative. I don't see how that is relevant here.


gengo said:


> The "wouldn't" is the conditional form of "will," but that "will" is not the future tense, and instead has to do with volition.
> 
> Compare:
> 1. I will buy your refrigerator if you help me move it to my house.
> 2. I will buy your refrigerator if you will help me move it to my house.
> 
> In 1, we are just stating a condition, A if B.  In 2, there is a nuance of doing the speaker a favor, as in "if you would be so kind as to help me."  That is, "if you _want_ to help me."  "Will" as a noun has the meaning of desire.


I think "desire" is too strong a word in this context. I would go with "willingness", or "consent" (the opposite of refusal).

Some examples from MW definition 2 of _will_ and "I wish" statements using the same meaning(s):

no one _would_ take the job -> _I wish someone would take the job._
if we _will_ all do our best -> _I wish we would all do our best.
will_ you please stop that racket -> _I wish you would please stop that racket._

and one from WR definition 2:

Nobody will help us. -> _I wish somebody would help us._

Another meaning of _will_ that is useful in "I wish" statements is MW definition 4, WR definition 6, i.e. "to express frequent, customary, or habitual action or natural tendency or disposition":

_will_ get angry over nothing -> _I wish you wouldn't get angry over nothing.
will_ work one day and loaf the next -> _I wish he wouldn't just work one day and load the next._
She _will_ write for hours at a time. -> _I wish she wouldn't write for hours at a time._
Boys _will_ be boys. -> _I wish boys wouldn't always "be boys"._


			
				Advanced English Grammar: A Linguistic Approach said:
			
		

> I wish you _wouldn't smoke_. (said to discourage someone who is about to light up)


I find this misleading. For this sentence, the nearest applicable meaning to "discourage" is wishing "you" were willing not to smoke, and the nearest applicable meaning to "about to light up" is wishing "you" did not have such a tendency to smoke.


Rocko! said:


> _Me gustaría que no fumes/fume_. (Más claro: "..._que no fume/s aquí/en este momento_").


"I wish you wouldn't smoke" is not really about when or where the smoking occurs but more about what motivates or causes the smoking.


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## gengo

Forero said:


> I think "desire" is too strong a word in this context. I would go with "willingness", or "consent" (the opposite of refusal).


My statement ("Will" as a noun has the meaning of desire.) wasn't directly referring to the context at hand.  In the phrase "where there's a will, there's a way," we could replace "will" with "desire" without changing the meaning too much.  I was just trying to point out the major difference between "will" as it is used to form the future tense and its other meanings.


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## Forero

Now that we have explained the difference in English, I am still really curious if there is any way to translate it in Spanish.

I remember this thread from 2009 that featured the Spanish sentence "Ramona fue al comedor para ver si su padre la consolaba un poco." Apparently it means "Ramona went to the dining room to see if her father would cheer her up a little", with the same meaning of the verb _will_/_would_ that we have been discussing.

In present tense, we would say "Ramona goes to the dining room to see if her father will cheer her up little" and Spanish would say "... si su padre la consuela un poco."

The past tense version does not use _consolara_ or _consolaría_ because the present tense version does not use _consuele_ or _consolará_.

So how can Spanish distinguish between these pairs of ideas?

1A. _He doesn't console her, but I wish he did._ (He doesn't currently, but he might next time. I wish it weren't so.)
1B. _He won't console her, but I wish he would._ (He refuses to, and I wish that weren't so.)

2A. _He smokes up the whole house whenever we are away. I wish he didn't._ (It's what he does, but I wish it weren't so.)
2B. _He'll smoke up the whole house if you let him. I wish he wouldn't._ (It's the way he is unless we intervene, but I wish it weren't so.)


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## heybach

Forero said:


> no one _would_ take the job -> _I wish someone would take the job._
> if we _will_ all do our best -> _I wish we would all do our best.
> will_ you please stop that racket -> _I wish you would please stop that racket._


So I guess, it wouldn't make much sense to say:
I wish someone took the job.
I wish we all did our best.
I wish you stopped that racket.



Forero said:


> Nobody will help us. -> _I wish somebody would help us._


Does this one mean that you see people passing by and they don't help you although they see you're in need?
Here, could I say "I wish somebody helped us"? Any sense? I understand it like you don't see any people, but you say it as a general thought. Is it possible?


Although you made me think quite a bit, here's my attempt, @Forero:


Forero said:


> 1A. _He doesn't console her, but I wish he did._ (He doesn't currently, but he might next time. I wish it weren't so.)
> 1B. _He won't console her, but I wish he would._ (He refuses to, and I wish that weren't so.)


1A. No la consuela, pero ojalá lo hiciera.
1B. No la consolará/va a consolar, pero ojalá lo haga.



Forero said:


> 2A. _He smokes up the whole house whenever we are away. I wish he didn't._ (It's what he does, but I wish it weren't so.)
> 2B. _He'll smoke up the whole house if you let him. I wish he wouldn't._ (It's the way he is unless we intervene, but I wish it weren't so.)


2A. Se fuma la casa entera cada vez que estamos fuera. Ojalá no lo hiciera.
2B. Se fumará la casa entera si le dejas. Ojalá no lo haga.

After my brief analysis:

"Ojalá (no) lo *hiciera*": used for past or repeated actions without knowing if it's going to happen again. You simply like/dislike what usually happens.
"Ojalá (no) lo *haga*": for a future use, for something that's likely to happen but you would like it to be different.
But as I said, I wouldn't say this is 100% exact. I think in many situations in Spanish we could use them interchangeably and everybody would understand it.


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## merquiades

Bevj said:


> The difference I see:
> I wish you didn't smoke - Me gustaría que no fueras fumador/a
> I wish you wouldn't smoke - Me gustaría que no fumaras (right now or referring to a specific time., e.g. 'I wish you wouldn't smoke when the baby is in the room').


I agree with this difference
Me gustaría que dejaras de fumar, que no fueras fumador.  Me preocupa tu salud.
Me gustaría que no fumaras delante de mí, que enciendeses el cigarro.  Es que me molesta.

I really wouldn't say "I wish you weren't smoking".


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## Forero

heybach said:


> So I guess, it wouldn't make much sense to say:
> I wish someone took the job.
> I wish we all did our best.
> I wish you stopped that racket.


I might be able to think of context in which they make sense, but they are certainly not viable substitutes for the sentences with _would_.


heybach said:


> Forero said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody will help us. -> _I wish somebody would help us._
> 
> 
> 
> Does this one mean that you see people passing by and they don't help you although they see you're in need?
> Here, could I say "I wish somebody helped us"? Any sense? I understand it like you don't see any people, but you say it as a general thought. Is it possible?
Click to expand...

The most likely context for "Nobody will help us. I wish somebody would" is one in which no one is going to help us, even if there are people passing by and even if they see we're in need. Maybe we are too far away from anyone who might help, or maybe no one has the right rescue equipment. Or maybe they just don't want to be bothered.

(Or maybe no one can see us.)


heybach said:


> Although you made me think quite a bit, here's my attempt, @Forero:
> 
> 
> Forero said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1A. _He doesn't console her, but I wish he did._ (He doesn't currently, but he might next time. I wish it weren't so.)
> 1B. _He won't console her, but I wish he would._ (He refuses to, and I wish that weren't so.)
> 
> 
> 
> 1A. No la consuela, pero ojalá lo hiciera.
> 1B. No la consolará/va a consolar, pero ojalá lo haga.
Click to expand...

¿Es posible decir las dos cosas con el verbo _consolar_? ¿1A: _Ojalá la consolara_? ¿1B: _Ojalá la consuele_ / _Ojalá la vaya a consolar_?


heybach said:


> Forero said:
> 
> 
> 
> _2A. He smokes up the whole house whenever we are away. I wish he didn't. (It's what he does, but I wish it weren't so.)
> 2B. He'll smoke up the whole house if you let him. I wish he wouldn't. (It's the way he is unless we intervene, but I wish it weren't so.)_
> 
> 
> 
> _2A. Se fuma la casa entera cada vez que estamos fuera. Ojalá no lo hiciera.
> 2B. Se fumará la casa entera si le dejas. Ojalá no lo haga.
> 
> After my brief analysis:_
> 
> _"Ojalá (no) lo *hiciera*": used for past or repeated actions without knowing if it's going to happen again. You simply like/dislike what usually happens._
> _"Ojalá (no) lo *haga*": for a future use, for something that's likely to happen but you would like it to be different._
> _But as I said, I wouldn't say this is 100% exact. I think in many situations in Spanish we could use them interchangeably and everybody would understand it._
Click to expand...

Thank you.


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## heybach

Forero said:


> ¿Es posible decir las dos cosas con el verbo _consolar_? ¿1A: _Ojalá la consolara_? ¿1B: _Ojalá la consuele_ / _Ojalá la vaya a consolar_?


1A. Sí
1B. Sí. La segunda opción implica movimiento (ir), es decir, estarías añadiendo el que deseas que se desplace para consolarla.

Pero recuerda, que no quedaría bien repetir el verbo consolar, si ya lo has usado en la frase anterior. Por eso yo he usado el verbo "hacer".


Forero said:


> The most likely context for "Nobody will help us. I wish somebody would" is one in which no one is going to help us, even if there are people passing by and even if they see we're in need. Maybe we are too far away from anyone who might help, or maybe no one has the right rescue equipment. Or maybe they just don't want to be bothered.
> 
> (Or maybe no one can see us.)


And how is it different from "I wish somebody _*helped *_us" in terms of context? Is it that you still don't know if you'll get any help at all when you're wondering?


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## gengo

heybach said:


> And how is it different from "I wish somebody _*helped *_us" in terms of context?


Although that sentence is grammatically perfect, I can't think of a situation in which it would sound natural.  We would always use "would help us," because help, by its nature, involves willingness (volition).

On the other hand, the following sounds perfectly natural.

_This work would go much faster if somebody helped us. _("if somebody would help us" is also correct)

It's difficult to explain in simple terms why this difference exists.


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## heybach

I think we'd better not dig deeper...


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## Forero

> And how is it different from "I wish somebody _*helped *_us" in terms of context? Is it that you still don't know if you'll get any help at all when you're wondering?


Wishing is not the same as wondering. Wishing, also called "making a wish", is magical (or science fiction) thinking.

It is never about the future (which is not yet real anyway); it is only about a present different from the real present.

Start with a present fact, not a future expectation, and then say the opposite in past subjunctive with "I wish" in front:

Present fact: _Nobody _(_ever_) _helps us._
Present wish for a different present: _I wish somebody helped us_ (_sometime_)_._

Present fact: _Nobody will help us._ (= Nobody is willing to help us / Nobody is disposed to helping us.)
Present wish for a different present: _I wish somebody would help us._ (= I wish somebody were willing to help us / I wish somebody were disposed to helping us.)

Future expectation: _Tomorrow will be Saturday, not Wednesday._
Present wish for a different future: _I wish tomorrow would be Wednesday, not Saturday._


heybach said:


> 1A. Sí
> 1B. Sí. La segunda opción implica movimiento (ir), es decir, estarías añadiendo el que deseas que se desplace para consolarla.


¿Físicamente de un lugar hacia otro?


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## heybach

Forero said:


> Start with a present fact, not a future expectation, and then say the opposite in past subjunctive with "I wish" in front:


Interesting approach indeed. I thought I could speak English, now I see there are really difficult subtleties...



Forero said:


> ¿Físicamente de un lugar hacia otro?


Sí. Y recuerda que también puedes decir "Ojalá vaya a consolar*la*".


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## Forero

heybach said:


> Sí. Y recuerda que también puedes decir "Ojalá vaya a consolar*la*".


Interesante.

Pues, ¿cómo traducen los numerosos "I wish"es de las Mil y Una Noches y de los cuentos de los hermanos Grimm?

¿Se usa "ojalá", "desearía", o qué?


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## heybach

Forero said:


> Interesante.
> 
> Pues, ¿cómo traducen los numerosos "I wish"es de las Mil y Una Noches y de los cuentos de los hermanas Grimm?
> 
> ¿Se usa "ojalá", "desearía", o qué?


Para mí la mejor traducción en general es "Ojalá".
"Desearía" es correcto pero me parece mucho más enfático y menos usado en el lenguaje hablado. De ahí a las novelas... es otro cantar.


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