# grijze muis



## Mysteriousgirl

Hey mannen

Ik weet eigenlijk niet goed waar ik dit moet vragen vermits er geen "Nederlands-Engels" thread bestaat. Weet iemand hier hoe je in het Engels zou zeggen, "een grijze muis zijn" , daarmee bedoel ik, iemand die niet opvalt, die altijd doet wat de rest doet enz.

Thanks x


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## Hitchhiker

I'm trying to think if there is such a term in English for somebody that doesn't stand from the crowd. In America we say "average Joe", "average Jane" and "Joe Shmoe". But they are very American expressions I think and they mean the Average American. You might to say "everyday person", that may be the best fit for the Dutch expression, or "average person".


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## Hitchhiker

Something that might be closer is "just another face in the crowd". Maybe "Mr. Nobody" but I'm not sure that would be a good choice.


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## Hitchhiker

There are a couple of English expressions that mean shy or timid but I'm not sure that's what you want. They are "milquetoast" and "wallflower". The other thing I can of is "follower" but that's a common word.


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## sound shift

Het ligt eraan of "grijze muis" neutraal dan wel vernederend is.


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## Suehil

There is always the adjective 'mousy'.  'A mousy little woman' gives much the right idea.  
'Nonentity' works, too, but it is fairly high register.


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## jacquesvd

sound shift said:


> Het ligt eraan of "grijze muis" neutraal dan wel vernederend is.


 
It is rather neutral but not completely: some hear in it nothing else than that 'een grijze muis' a very inconspicuous person is, whilst others (I believe most) consider it a rather dull person: not yet directly negative but perhaps not completely neutral anymore.
Of all the translations offered so far, I think Suehills 'a mousy little woman' comes closest.


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## Joannes

sound shift said:


> Het ligt eraan of "grijze muis" neutraal dan wel vernederend is.


Neutraal is het niet maar doorgaans ook niet echt vernederend, wel vaak honend, neerbuigend. Er is niets positiefs aan een grijze muis, behalve dat ie niet slecht is -- en dan nog; ik speel amateurvoetbal en we gaan altijd voor het kampioenschap maar als dat onhaalbaar is, zouden we liever tegen de degradatie spelen dan een grijs seizoen in de middenmoot te spelen. 

Ik dacht even aan *flying under the radar*, want om dat te doen, moet je je gedragen als een grijze muis. Maar dat is veeleer doelbewust, niet waar? En dan zit er een verdienste in, en dat omvat een 'grijze muis' niet.



Suehil said:


> There is always the adjective 'mousy'. 'A mousy little woman' gives much the right idea.


 
But isn't *mousy* more like 'shy'?

From the suggestions so far, I think I like *just another face in the crowd* best.

But it depends on _context_, as always. It would not work as good if the stress is on the 'meeloper' sense, for example.


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## jacquesvd

Hitchhiker said:


> I'm trying to think if there is such a term in English for somebody that doesn't stand from the crowd. In America we say "average Joe", "average Jane" and "Joe Shmoe". But they are very American expressions I think and they mean the Average American. You might to say "everyday person", that may be the best fit for the Dutch expression, or "average person".


 
I think 'average Joe' is more: Piet Doorsnee of Jan met de pet. Otto Normalverbraucher in German.

Een grijze muis is more of an inconspicuous person, which is probaly close to a 'Piet Doorsnee' but not quite since there can be Piet Doorsnee's that have a behaviour like most people but not necessarily an extra inconspicuous behaviour which is an essential element if somebody must be called a 'grijze muis'; inconspicuous to the point that it borders on or passes into 'dullness'.


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## Suehil

'Mousy' is only shy inasmuch as a mousy person doesn't say much - but then neither does 'een grijze muis'. 'Mousy', used like this, refers to the greyness, not the timidity.

The masculine version of 'a mousy little woman' could be 'a nondescript little man'

(In both cases the 'little' refers to their lack of presence, not their physical size)


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## Joannes

Suehil said:


> 'Mousy' is only shy inasmuch as a mousy person doesn't say much - but then neither does 'een grijze muis'.


Very true.

OK, thanks!



jacquesvd said:


> Een grijze muis is more of an inconspicuous person, which is probaly close to a 'Piet Doorsnee' but not quite since there can be Piet Doorsnee's that have a behaviour like most people but not necessarily an extra inconspicuous behaviour which is an essential element if somebody must be called a 'grijze muis'; inconspicuous to the point that it borders on or passes into 'dullness'.


 
Good synthesis of the meaning of *grijze muis*! Also, Jan met de Pet, Jan Modaal 'average Joe' etc. are often used to represent _everyone _(or at least all of those that are not more than average).


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## jacquesvd

Suehil said:


> 'Mousy' is only shy inasmuch as a mousy person doesn't say much - but then neither does 'een grijze muis'. 'Mousy', used like this, refers to the greyness, not the timidity.
> 
> The masculine version of 'a mousy little woman' could be 'a nondescript little man'
> 
> (In both cases the 'little' refers to their lack of presence, not their physical size)


 
I concur and believe that 'een grijze muis' almost by definition doesn't say much, or at least doesn't impress in any way whatsoever and I very much agree also with your limiting the reference especially to greyness and not timidity, the latter being 'schuchterheid' in Dutch (een verlegen, schuchtere, timide persoon). I don't personally feel 'grijze muis' to have anything specific to do with that except that it can sometimes coincide in a person, and believe that I have met 'grijze muizen' who in their heart of hearts thought greatly of themselves but lacked the personality, intelligence, spirit, etc to demonstrate it. It is, at best, for me just greyness and at worst 'dullness'


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## Hitchhiker

It seems the English would be "plain" or "ordinary" . Somebody might say a "plain Jane" for a woman and maybe an "ordinary guy" for a man, but not much of an expression for a child.


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## Mysteriousgirl

Thanks for the many replies. Personally, I wasn't really meant negative. Since I was about to say to a person that "I AM NOT". But I decided to just say that I'm no ordinary girl, meaning I do not do all the things girls my age usually do. 
Well, thanks again!


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