# 詐, 騙, 誆, 蒙, 哄



## yuechu

大家好！

I heard the following sentence on a 电视剧 recently: "你以为我诈你"
Is 诈 any different than 骗? (For example, is one more informal or serious than the other?)
Thanks!


----------



## SimonTsai

I am not very sure. I feel that in general, '騙' is more commonly used in everyday contexts.

欺*詐*  欺*騙*  || *詐*術  *騙*術  || 使*詐*  使*騙* 
*詐*欺  *騙*欺  || *詐*死  *騙*死  || *詐*賭  *騙*賭 

你 <*詐*  *騙* > 我，我不信：如果你對我沒感覺，那個吻算甚麼？
我勸你早早收手，做人踏實點，別整日招搖撞 <*詐*  *騙* >。
爸爸是個大 <*詐*  *騙* >子，我最討厭爸爸了！


----------



## T.D

These two are basically the same in meaning. But there are some differences.  Such as 诈 can be an adjective, means fake or false (as in 诈降, false surrender) and a verb, means to deceive (as in the sentence you gave), while 骗 can only be a verb.


----------



## yuechu

Good to know! Thank you both!


----------



## SuperXW

My feeling:

骗 can often be translated as "deceive, cheat" and the object can be everything including 感情 "affection/love".
诈 is more often related to "trick" or 装 act/pretend/disguise", and is never used on "affection/love".

In your 电视剧 "你以为我诈你" may mean:
"You think I was bluffing, providing false information so you may tell truth or give back real benefit."


----------



## retrogradedwithwind

其实英语中的cheat, swindle, deceive, defraud, bilk etc.我也不知道都有什么区别……

汉语中的骗和诈，我觉得区别就是：

1，骗更通用，诈比较局限，
2，各自有不同的固定搭配，这个看Simon的例子。不要问为什么这么搭配，我觉得就是习惯如此罢了。没有为什么。
3，就我的语感，“你诈我”“你骗我”，都成立。意思嘛，可能有点区别，但我也不确定这区别是不是真有。可能就是不同方言区的惯用词汇不一样。有的方言区习惯说“诈”罢了。——就类似于有的方言区习惯说“我”来自称，有的习惯说“俺”。又比如都是馄饨这种食物，四川叫抄手，广东叫云吞。对于“骗”这种行为，有的地区习惯说“诈”，有的习惯说“诓”，有的习惯说“哄”，有的习惯说“蒙”。“骗诈诓哄蒙”，这些词汇是不是真有意思和用法上的区别，我也不确定。


----------



## SimonTsai

'詐' in contemporary contexts is usually restricted to fraud, i.e., to defraud someone of money or something economically valuable. @SuperXW has made a point that '詐' is rarely used to mean to purely play with one's feelings, without getting money.

Occasionally you will see '詐' being used in the sense of pretence, as in '詐死', which means to pretend to be dead, or in '詐降', which, as @T.D has explained, means to falsely capitulate.


retrogradedwithwind said:


> “骗诈诓哄蒙”，这些词 [...] 是不是真有意思和用法上的区别，我也不确定。


'誆' is almost always used with '騙' in my experience; '誆騙' is a word. It can be used alone, however. For example,

他這人一看就不是甚麼善類，你提防著點兒，不要錢財被【誆】了去。​
'誆' and '騙' seem to be perfect synonyms, but '誆' is much less commonly used. '哄' is slightly more specific: It puts more emphasis on the fact that the person being cheated is made not able to think clearly as if he were under a spell. Think of a baby listening to his mum chanting sweet songs and then falling asleep. '蒙' evokes the image of a blindfold. It does not necessarily mean to deceive, but means to conceal something:

十年，你們瞞我整整十年，把我【蒙】在鼓裡十年。沒錯，我沒問，因為我根本不知道有這回事，但於法於情於理，我有知的權利。你們瞞我，怕我跟你們爭不成？​


----------



## retrogradedwithwind

SimonTsai said:


> '蒙' evokes the image of a blindfold. It does not necessarily mean to deceive, but means to conceal something:
> 
> 十年，你們瞞我整整十年，把我【蒙】在鼓裡十年。沒錯，我沒問，因為我根本不知道有這回事，但於法於情於理，我有知的權利。你們瞞我，怕我跟你們爭不成？​


这两个"蒙"不一样。一个是meng2，意思是盖、遮，如蒙在鼓里，蒙着头。一个是蒙meng1，意思是骗，如蒙人，坑蒙拐骗。

诓。这个字我还是听人说过的，组词的话也是"诓人""诓我"。意思是骗。刚搜了一下，有这样的例子，"你这是诓我的话"，"诓我看你"，"你诓我我骗你"。

哄，这个词当骗讲，我似乎没怎么听人说过。但网上搜，有"嘴巴甜哄人钱""哄人钱财""哄人花钱"这样的例子。似乎是"用好话骗人"的意思。


----------



## SimonTsai

retrogradedwithwind said:


> 但网上搜，有 "嘴巴甜哄人钱" "哄人钱财" [...] 这样的例子。


I have always used '哄' followed by an action, e.g., going to sleep ('哄寶寶睡' ). The use of '哄' followed by what the person is trying to trick the victim out of ('哄人錢財' ) is new to me.


> meng1，意思是骗，如蒙人，坑蒙拐骗。


I would pronounce '矇' in '矇人' with the first tone but '蒙' in '坑蒙拐騙' with the second.

I am unsure of why I pronounce them so. The official dictionary here prescribes '矇 (1) 騙' but '欺矇 (2)', and I pronounce it in both words with the second tone. I would pronounce it with the first only when it is used alone in the sense of deception ('你少矇人了你!'), or when it is used to mean to make a random guess ('天曉得全班沒人答對的題目, 他竟然矇對了.'). I suspect that these two both derive from its original sense, not being able to see things clearly ('以明鑒給矇瞽, 以絲竹娛聾夫.').


----------



## retrogradedwithwind

又搜了一下，似乎有的字典也收入蒙meng2并解释为“欺骗”。（原本有个链接，但我找不到了……）

另外诓和诳，区别也不大，音也不同。所以我觉得这些东西有时候没必要较真。


----------



## SimonTsai

Here in Taiwan, we have both '矇騙' and '蒙騙', and they are prescribed different pronunciations. I personally pronounce them exactly the same anyway, and I do not see any difference in meaning. (You are right that sometimes it is not a bad idea to look at things from a distance.)


----------



## luxiaxin

大家好！

你不要再骗我了,我都知道了。
In this sentence, is 骗 interchangeable with 诓 and 诈?  都是方言吗？


----------



## Lamb67

诓字的解释---在线新华字典

In usage 骗 is the most common . There is hardly any dialect involved,  i think.


----------



## Vincent Tam

Hi, 
你不要再骗我了,我都知道了 In this sentence “骗” is idiomatic to me.  The other two words are odd if replace "骗" in that sentence, even though they mean the same thing.


----------



## luxiaxin

你不要诓我。你不要骗我。两句话有什么不同？


----------



## Skatinginbc

luxiaxin said:


> 你不要诓我。你不要骗我。两句话有什么不同？


A: 我愛你!
B: 不要騙我, 不要騙自己.  你跟我在一起, 只圖方便, 從未真心愛過我.

A: 我是不是快死了?
B: 好好活,  說不定還能活上百呢!
A: 你不要騙我, 醫生, 我真的還能活到一百歲?
B: 我沒騙你.  運氣好的話，你可能還有一百天可活.

誆 does not work in the above situations in the Mandarin dialect that I know of.  I don't know about other dialects though.


----------



## Lianxin

retrogradedwithwind said:


> 这两个"蒙"不一样。一个是meng2，意思是盖、遮，如蒙在鼓里，蒙着头。一个是蒙meng1，意思是骗，如蒙人，坑蒙拐骗。
> 
> 诓。这个字我还是听人说过的，组词的话也是"诓人""诓我"。意思是骗。刚搜了一下，有这样的例子，"你这是诓我的话"，"诓我看你"，"你诓我我骗你"。
> 
> 哄，这个词当骗讲，我似乎没怎么听人说过。但网上搜，有"嘴巴甜哄人钱""哄人钱财""哄人花钱"这样的例子。似乎是"用好话骗人"的意思。


妇人骂道：“贼牢，你在老娘手里使巧儿，拿这面子话儿来哄我！
source: 金瓶梅第 75 回


----------

