# powidła



## LeTasmanien

I have come across this phrase in 'Dom nad rozlewiskiem'

tylko z takich węgierek powidła są świetne
and have translated awkwardly it for myself as....

Only from such hungary plums jam are great



I can understand what the author is saying but my humble dictionary only gives 'dżem' for 'jam' which I think is roughly correct but
I am guessing that 'preserve' would be a better translation?


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## Soob

In English "powidła" is "powidl" which is taken from Polish "powidła". I reckon the many of English speakers don't know what powidła is, so I would use the word "jam" or "plum jam" or the plum should say "hungarian plum jam".


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## Ben Jamin

LeTasmanien said:


> I have come across this phrase in 'Dom nad rozlewiskiem'
> 
> tylko z takich węgierek powidła są świetneand have translated awkwardly it for myself as....
> 
> Only from such Hungarian hungary plums jam is are great
> 
> 
> I can understand what the author is saying but my humble dictionary only gives 'dżem' for 'jam' which I think is roughly correct but
> I am guessing that 'preserve' would be a better translation?



Nie ma czegoś takiego jak „Hungarian plum” po angielsku. 

*Śliwka węgierka* to po angielsku „Zwetschge” (Wikipedia) lub „damson plum” (ale to podobno nie jest całkiem to samo). 

Ta sama Wikipedia daje nam angielski artykuł sprzęgnięty z polskim „powidła”, pod nazwą „powidl”, i określa produkt jako „Zwetschgen stew”
Jednakże nazwa „Zwetschge” dla przeciętnego Anglika lub Amerykanina nie jest znana, więc nie ma co być takim dokładnym, i wystarczy użyć mniej precyzyjnego „plum”, ewentualnie „damson plum”. Gorzej jest z wyborem rodzaju przetworu. *Powidl* niewiele powie przeciętnemu „Anglosasowi”, więc mamy do wyboru *stew *lub *spread*. *Stew* jest rzadkie, a *spread* jest bez cukru, czyli to znowu nie całkiem to samo. Jednak klasyczne domowe powidła zawierają mało cukru i mało wody (sam robię), więc chyba „plum spread” będzie najlepszym przybliżeniem.



There is nothing like "Hungarian plum" in English. 
*Śliwka węgierka* is called  „Zwetschge” (Wikipedia) in English, or "Damson plum” (but allegedly it's not the same). 
Wikipedia links Polish "Powidla" with "Powidl", but this is quite obscure for an average Anglophone person, so we should choose between "stew" and "spread,
*Stew *is too watery to be used about „powidła” and *spread *shall be made without adding sugar, so nothing matches perfectly.
However, classical Polish „powidła” contains little water and little sugar, so perhaps "plum spread" is the best translation.


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## jasio

Ben Jamin said:


> *Śliwka węgierka* is called  „Zwetschge” (Wikipedia) in English, or "Damson plum” (but allegedly it's not the same).
> Wikipedia links Polish "Powidla" with "Powidl", but this is quite obscure for an average Anglophone person, so we should choose between "stew" and "spread,
> *Stew *is too watery to be used about „powidła” and *spread *shall be made without adding sugar, so nothing matches perfectly.
> However, classical Polish „powidła” contains little water and little sugar, so perhaps "plum spread" is the best translation.



The article you mentioned also refers to 'italian prune', and the Polish one - to 'prune butter', noting however that it's not quite the same. My dictionary (http://ling.pl/powidła) translates it as 'jam'. 

Anyway, I feel a bit uncomfortable finding the best translation for a native English speaker...


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## LeTasmanien

Thanks for your input everyone.
I think any of preserve, spread or even stewed plums would probably be ok.
I have seen powidła prepared from  śliwki węgierski and it is quite a lengthy slow-cooking process
I can say that the śliwka węgierka is definitely quite different to the english damson, both in appeance and taste.


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## Thomas1

For what it's worth:





			
				Wielki słownik PWN-OXORD said:
			
		

> *węgierka *f
> 1. Bot. (drzewo) purple plum (tree)
> 2. Kulin. (owoc) purple plum
> 
> 
> *powid*|*ła* plt (Gpl powideł) Kulin.  plum jam; smażyć powidła to make plum jam





			
				The New Kosciuszko Foundation Dictionary said:
			
		

> *węgierka *
> f.
> Gen.pl. -ek bot., ogr. plum (Prunus domestica oeconomica).
> 
> 
> *powidła *
> pl.
> Gen. -eł plum confection, plum jam.



EDIT: "purple plum" seems OK to me. However, it may have a broader range of referents than the Polish word "węgierka".


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## LeTasmanien

I would agree with Ben jamin when he writes:
'There is nothing like "Hungarian plum" in English', simply because in my many years of living in the UK and Australia I have never come across such plums. I don't think that they are cultivated to any significant extent in those countries where the taste of consumers is more attuned to sweeter varieties of plum. 
I would hesitste to use the word 'jam' as in my experience jams tend to be half fruit and half cane sugar. 
I'll need to check with the cook on this though!


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## wolfbm1

The Polish term 'powidła' is definitely a kind of fruit preserve (konfitura). Agatha Christie mentions all kinds of fruit preserves in her autobiography:

"The little girl would wait hopefully, peering into the interesting recesses. Rows of jars of jam and preserves. Boxes of dates, preserved fruits, figs, French plums, cherries, angelica, packets of raisins and currants, pounds of butter and sacks of sugar, tea and flour."

This quotation, translated by Magdalena Konikowska and Teresa Lechowska, appears in "Podróże kulinarne. Kuchnia brytyjska. Tom 17.":

"Mała dziewczynka czekała pełna nadziei i zaglądała do interesującego przybytku. Stały tam rzędy słoi z dżemem i konfiturami. Pudła daktyli, kandyzowanych owoców, fig, suszonych śliwek, wiśni, angeliki, paczki dużych i małych rodzynek, funty masła i worki cukru, herbaty i mąki."

On the other hand, the above cookbook mentions "chutney", a kind of pickle (marynata?) which is popular in Britain but not in Poland. For me, chutney looks like 'konfitura owocowa."


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## LeTasmanien

Thanks Wolf.

After digging around a bit it would appear that Jams and Preserves are not quite the same thing for example from
http://www.cookthink.com/reference/2178/Whats_the_difference_between_jam_and_preserves ; 
*"Jam* is a mixture made of crushed preserved fruit and sugar....
The word *preserves* means fruit that is cooked the same way; the only difference is that the fruit in preserves is often cut into chunks or in some cases whole, whereas jam may have a less chunky texture.
The common fruit/sugar ratio in jam and preserves is 50/50."

I am not sure that the same holds true for dżem and powidła too. My polish cooking expert has affirmed:
little or no sugar goes into powidła, depending on the sweetness of the plums,
the fruit is cooked to a jam like texture, not chunky, and
powidła is only ever made using the śliwka węgierka

So maybe there is no exact equivalent in English for powidła? 

As for chutneys, from my experience these would be similar to a preserve, as described above, however chutneys are usually słodki i kwaśni.


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## Thomas1

LeTasmanien said:


> [...]
> So maybe there is no exact equivalent in English for powidła?
> [...]


I guess that's true about many local specialities. Take, for instance, _bigos, pierogi_, which have already made their way into the English language. I suspect that giving a translation of such things will often result in an approximation of some sort which will never be equivalent to the source term.

PS: "słodkie i kwaśne".


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## Ben Jamin

wolfbm1 said:


> The Polish term 'powidła' is definitely a kind of fruit preserve (konfitura).


By no means!
*Konfitura *is a special kind of fruit preserve and may not be used as a hyperonym for fruit preserves in general.
*Konfitura *and *powidła *are exactly at the opposite ends of the fruit preserve continuum. 
*Konfitura*: made usually of sour cherries, plenty of sugar, whole fruits (without kernels) with the fresh fruit looks mostly preserved.
*Powid**ła*: made of *Prunus domestica domestica* (according to English Wikipedia) or *Prunus domestica Italica *(according to Polish Wikipedia), very little or no sugar, fruits converted into a thick brown paste.

Correction: 
The Polish Wikipedia is wrong. According to German Wikipedia *Prunus domestica Italica *is a fruit called *renkloda *in Polish.
The German article corroborates the English one.  *Prunus domestica domestica *is correct, its th same as *śliwka węgierka*.


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## LeTasmanien

Thomas1 said:


> I guess that's true about many local specialities. Take, for instance, _bigos, pierogi_, which have already made their way into the English language. I suspect that giving a translation of such things will often result in an approximation of some sort which will never be equivalent to the source term.
> 
> PS: "słodkie i kwaśne".



Exactly right. 
And thanks for the corrections. Polish case forms remain very much a work in progress for me.


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## LeTasmanien

Ben Jamin said:


> *Powid**ła*: made of *Prunus domestica domestica* (according to English Wikipedia) or *Prunus domestica Italica *(according to Polish Wikipedia), very little or no sugar, fruits converted into a thick brown paste.



"thick brown paste" perfectly describes the powidła I have tasted just recently.


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## wolfbm1

Apparently there is a difference between "powidła" and "konfitura". The former is a paste and the latter contains chunks of fruit. Both do not contain other preservative beside sugar and are cooked much longer than jam.


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## Thomas1

Ben Jamin said:


> [...] Correction:
> The Polish Wikipedia is wrong. According to German Wikipedia *Prunus domestica Italica *is a fruit called *renkloda *in Polish.
> The German article corroborates the English one. *Prunus domestica domestica *is correct, its th same as *śliwka węgierka*.


There seem to be at least two classifications or further confusion:
1)
According to the _Thesaurus of Agrcultural Organisms_, Derwent Publications (p. 967), _Prunus domestica domestica_ has the following English names: damson, common plum, European plum, garden plum.
This page has an article on the common/European plum and gives its picture. The Latin name is _Prunus domestica_; there’s no name _Prunus domestica domestica_, but the fruit on the photo looks like a _węgierka_ to me.

2)
Polish Wikipedia under the name _Prunus domestica oeconomica_ and gives the following information:·  _Prunus domestica_ L. subsp. _oeconomica_​

var. _pruneliana_ – węgierki – owoce granatowe lub brunatne, wydłużone, przy szypułce zwężone, czasem elipsoidalne lub jajowate, miąższ zwięzły, aromatyczny, winnosłodki, dobrze odchodzi od pestki, np. odmiany uprawne Węgierka Zwykła, Węgierka Dąbrowicka, Węgierka Włoska, Stanley, Valor[5].​ 
Source: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śliwa_domowa​The source given in the foot notes:  Aleksander Rejman: _Pomologia, odmianoznawstwo roślin sadowniczych_. Warszawa: PWRiL, 1994. ISBN 83-09-01612-3.(Systematyka)​ 
The same Latin name, _Prunus domestica oeconomica_, is given by _The New Kosciuszko Foundation Dictionary_ in the entry for _węgierka_, which I quoted in post #6.


***
A separate matter is that, although _powidła _made of _węgierki_ are probably the most popular, there's a niche in the world of _powidła_ occupied by _powidła_ made of different types of fruit than _węgierka_ (including "powidła z zielonej renklody").


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## Polilotte

In case you haven't figured this out yet*, śliwka węgierka* is called "prune plum" in English. I would call "powidła" - prune plum preserves. They are less sweet and less solid than jam; they may resemble pie filling.


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## LeTasmanien

Polilotte said:


> In case you haven't figured this out yet*, śliwka węgierka* is called "prune plum" in English. I would call "powidła" - prune plum preserves. They are less sweet and less solid than jam; they may resemble pie filling.



Of course! Now that I think of it powidła does taste exactly like stewed prunes.
(Probably why I don't like it much)
Thnx


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## Ben Jamin

Polilotte said:


> They are less sweet and *less solid than jam*; they may resemble pie filling.


The kind of *powidła *I know is very solid. Besides, what kind of *jam *are you speaking about? There are many of them, with very different consistence.


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