# breaking another rule



## q_Raquel_p

Mirad esta frase, por favor:
I realised that I WAS BREAKING *ANOTHER* Italian rule.

Por qué es ANOTHER?!

ANOTHER es para sing./contable.
Y OTHER, para sing.plural / contable e incontable, ¿verdad?
Pues por qué no puedo poner OTHER, si Italian rule es CONTABLE y SINGULAR?


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## 3l1kl0X

Porque seguramente este hablando que lo ha vuelto a hacer.


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## chamyto

q_Raquel_p said:


> Mirad esta frase, por favor:
> I realised that I WAS BREAKING *ANOTHER* Italian rule.
> 
> Por qué es ANOTHER?!
> 
> ANOTHER es para sing./contable.
> Y OTHER, para sing.plural / contable e incontable, ¿verdad?
> Pues por qué no puedo poner OTHER, si Italian rule es CONTABLE y SINGULAR?



Olvídate de si la palabra es contable o incontable o singular/plural. Cuenta en su conjunto . Como ha dicho el compañero ha vuelto a romper la regla italiana ( no reglas, en ese caso sí que sería other )


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## cesduero

(Córdoba is a city in Spain and Córdoba is a city in Argentina too).
Are the following sentences correct? (I know, the meaning is different)
- One Córdoba is in Spain and another Córdoba is in Argentina.
- One Córdoba is in Spain and other Córdoba is in Argentina
- One Córdoba is in Spain and the other Córdoba is in Argentina.

I think so. Thanks!


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## chamyto

Hola, la segunda frase como que me suena rara, pero no soy nativo.


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## sound shift

cesduero said:


> One Córdoba is in Spain and other Córdoba is in Argentina


No se dice así, lo siento. Chamyto tiene razón.


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## chileno

cesduero said:


> (Córdoba is a city in Spain and Córdoba is a city in Argentina too).
> Are the following sentences correct? (I know, the meaning is different)
> - One Córdoba is in Spain and *another* Córdoba is in Argentina. = Una Córdoba está en España y *otra* Córdoba está en Argentina
> - One Córdoba is in Spain and other Córdoba is in Argentina
> - One Córdoba is in Spain and *the other* Córdoba is in Argentina. = Una Córdoba está en España y* la otra* Córdoba está en Argentina
> 
> I think so. Thanks!



There might be *other* Córdobas somewhere in the world in the future... = Podrían haber *otras* Córdobas en el mundo en el futuro...


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## Agró

chileno said:


> There might be *other* Córdobas somewhere in the world in the future... = Podrían *Podría *haber *otras* Córdobas en el mundo en el futuro...


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## chileno




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## User With No Name

chileno said:


> There might be *other* Córdobas somewhere in the world in the future...



De hecho, según Wikipedia, ya hay varias Córdobas en Colombia, una en Venezuela y una en México. Hasta hay por lo menos cuatro Cordovas en USA.

El mundo está repleto de Córdobas.

Más en serio, concuerdo con los demás: de las cuatro oraciones que propone cesduero, la primera y la tercera son correctas en términos gramaticales.


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## chileno

User With No Name said:


> Más en serio, concuerdo con los demás: de las cuatro oraciones que propone cesduero, la primera y la tercera son correctas en términos gramaticales.



Así que como se traduce "other" al castellano?


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## chamyto

_Otra/ la otra_, ¿no?


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## chileno

chileno said:


> Así que como se traduce "other" al castellano?


 Obvious to us, but is it the same for User With no Name?


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## User With No Name

chileno said:


> Obvious to us, but is it the same for User With no Name?



I completely agree. Actually, I'm a little confused about why you think I disagree.

I think the only issue is that the original poster is confused about when to your "other' versus "another." She wrote:
                    ANOTHER es para sing./contable.
                    Y OTHER, para sing.plural / contable e incontable, ¿verdad?

I think this is wrong. I'm not an English teacher, but I think it should be ANOTHER for any singular noun and OTHER for any plural noun. That explain why "other Córdoba" doesn't work, but "other Cúrdobas" does.

There is one Córdoba en Spain. There is ANOTHER Córdoba in Argentina. There are other Córdobas en Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela.

And "la otra" = "the other." If we ignore all the Córdobas except the first two, we can say "One Córdoba en in Spanish, and the other Córdoba is in Argentina." 

Again, I think we all agree. I'm not sure what the issue is.


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## Amapolas

Como no estamos hablando de geografía, me parece que para la consulta introducida por Cesduero no importa cuántas Córdobas haya en el planeta. Me parece que las respuestas de los mensajes 5 y 6 fueron aclaratorias, y que con el resto estamos introduciendo confusión.


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## User With No Name

Amapolas said:


> Me parece que las respuestas de los mensajes 5 y 6 fueron aclaratorias, y que con el resto estamos introduciendo confusión.



I'm sorry if I have introduced confusion, but I actually think the question of the other Córdobas brings up the legitimate (and very much related) issue of using "another" with singular nouns (another Córdoba) and "other" with plural nouns (other Córdobas). I actually think that's relevant, and germane to the original question.


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## Amapolas

User With No Name said:


> I'm sorry if I have introduced confusion, but I actually think the question of the other Córdobas brings up the legitimate (and very much related) issue of using "another" with singular nouns (another Córdoba) and "other" with plural nouns (other Córdobas). I actually think that's relevant, and germane to the original question.


Sorry, I was just saying. I hope I didn't sound snappish.


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## User With No Name

Amapolas said:


> Sorry, I was just saying. I hope I didn't sound snappish.


Not at all. I didn't mean it that way.


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## chileno

User With No Name said:


> I completely agree. Actually, I'm a little confused about why you think I disagree.



I didn't think you disagree, but I asked, anyway.


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## MiguelitOOO

Entonces, al final queda establecido que en español se dice la primera vez “rompiendo una norma”, y la segunda vez es “rompiendo otra norma”.
Pero en inglés, la primera vez es “breaking a rule”; y la segunda vez es “breaking another rule”. Es decir, el “other” nunca lo vamos a decir en un “conteo de ocasiones” (one time, another time / one rule, another rule). Never “other time” or “other rule” in a counting of repetitions.
Porque si fuera la misma norma, creo que se diría “breaking the Italian rule again”.

Lo voy a memorizar porque yo sí hubiera escrito “other rule” en un examen.


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## chamyto

Básicamente; aunque no creo que esto sea al 100%, _other_ es _plural_ y another singular, siempre y cuando (digamos) no finalices el conteo:
There are three pencils on the table: One of them is red, another is black and the other is green.

Saludos.


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## chileno

chamyto said:


> Básicamente; aunque no creo que esto sea al 100%, _other_ es _plural_ y another singular, siempre y cuando (digamos) no finalices el conteo:
> There are three pencils on the table: One of them is red, another is black and the other is green.
> 
> Saludos.



Ese ejemplo está bien, pero qué tal el siguiente?

There other pens on the table, but I need you to bring the red one only.


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## chamyto

Hola, es correcto, ¿no? (Te faltó poner "are" detrás de "there") .


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## Forero

_Another_ always means "an other" but is written together because of its pronunciation.

Logically, then, we think of it always as _an_ (the indefinite article, a determiner) plus _other_. _Other_ by itself is not a determiner and does not equate to "another" or "the other".

Singular count nouns, like _rule_, often require determiners where plural nouns do not.


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## chileno

chamyto said:


> Hola, es correcto, ¿no? (Te faltó poner "are" detrás de "there") .



Correcto...escribí muy rápido.


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## inib

Forero said:


> _Another_ always means "an other" but is written together because of its pronunciation.
> 
> Logically, then, we think of it always as _an_ (the indefinite article, a determiner) plus _other_. _Other_ by itself is not a determiner and does not equate to "another" or "the other".
> 
> Singular count nouns, like _rule_, often require determiners where plural nouns do not.


Now I think we're getting somewhere!
The idea of "an other" may not be helpful to a Spanish speaker, who will never say "un otro", but the fact that you've mentioned that in English we need *determiners* for singular countable nouns may clear things up. 
We *can* say:
*The* other pen
*My/Your* (etc) other pen
*This/That* other pen
*Some/Any/No* other pen
*What/Which/Whose* other pen?

But we *can't* just say:
Other pen.

We need the indefinite article _an_ and we stick it on to_ other_ = _another_.


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## Amapolas

inib said:


> The idea of "an other" may not be helpful to a Spanish speaker, who will never say "un otro", but the fact that you've mentioned that in English we need *determiners* for singular countable nouns may clear things up.


Oh, I think it may be helpful indeed, as it helps you focus on the 'singularity' of _another_. Then, however, when you advance in your studies you discover that 'another' can also be used in the plural.  As in (I'm not good at examples but I'll give it a shot) _I ran out of glasses so I had to go and get *another two*. _


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## chileno

Amapolas said:


> Oh, I think it may be helpful indeed, as it helps you focus on the 'singularity' of _another_. Then, however, when you advance in your studies you discover that 'another' can also be used in the plural.  As in (I'm not good at examples but I'll give it a shot) _I ran out of glasses so I had to go and get *another two glasses*. _



I would put glasses there.


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## User With No Name

Amapolas said:


> I ran out of glasses so I had to go and get *another two*.


Good point. And I don't think it's necessary to repeat "glasses," sinces the word is mentioned in the previous sentence.


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## chileno

User With No Name said:


> Good point. And I don't think it's necessary to repeat "glasses," sinces the word is mentioned in the previous sentence.



However, what about the following examples.

I was short by one *glass* so I got another *one*.

I run out of *glasses* so I got another* ones*. (some others?)

I've heard people say this quite often.


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## User With No Name

chileno said:


> I was short by one *glass* so I got another *one*.
> 
> I run out of *glasses* so I got another* ones*. (some others?)



With all respect, I would be really surprised if you had heard "another ones." For me, the normal wording would be "I got some more."


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## inib

Amapolas said:


> Oh, I think it may be helpful indeed, as it helps you focus on the 'singularity' of _another_. Then, however, when you advance in your studies you discover that 'another' can also be used in the plural.  As in (I'm not good at examples but I'll give it a shot) _I ran out of glasses so I had to go and get *another two*. _


I'm glad you can see it that way, Amapolas. I tried for years to explain to my students that if you didn't say _*el* otro_ , _*mi *otro_ etc, you had to say the equivalent of _*un* otro_ in English. They looked at me blankly! (Who on earth would say something like that?)
Yes, we do use _another_ with plurals when there's a number;  _another two glasses_ means an additional (amount of) two glasses, which is slightly different from _two other glasses (= two different glasses)_.


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## chileno

User With No Name said:


> With all respect, I would be really surprised if you had heard "another ones." For me, the normal wording would be "I got some more."



That's why I wrote "some *others*" in parenthesis. But that I've heard that from natives, I've heard them.


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## Forero

chileno said:


> That's why I wrote "some *others*" in parenthesis. But that I've heard that from natives, I've heard them.


I have never heard "another ones" either. "Another seven" (for example) makes sense, but "another ones" does not.


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## chileno

Forero said:


> I have never heard "another ones" either. "Another seven" (for example) makes sense, but "another ones" does not.



All correct.


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## MiguelitOOO

inib said:


> you had to say the equivalent of _*un* otro_ in English.


Si un maestro me dice eso, yo le contesto: Gracias maestro ¡¡¡Le debo la vida!!!


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