# pronounciation in the online dictionary



## joce

There must be a problem...
the pronounciation of counterpart is a bizarre
[kaʊntɜɒrt] in the English dictionary, while it
is still a decent ['kaʊntəpɑ:t] in the Spanish one.

[Actually, I note some worse pbs for other words in the English dictionary...
Probably you're working at it...]


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## joce

I didn't intend to have a smiley in the middle of the phonetics...
Does it mean one has to stick out his tongue anytime there's a long vowel before a 'p' sound ?


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## mkellogg

I like the idea of expressing phonetics in smilies!

Yes, I'm still working on it, and thanks for your suggestion. I've changed it to kaʊntɜɑ:rt, kaʊnɜɑ:rt for now. (I changed the A in part.)

FYI, I've derived the pron. symbols from a file that does not use IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) symbols and had to map them myself. I'm sure I made a number of mistakes... Also, the pronunciation data is American, while the Spanish dictionary uses British pronunciation. It actually seems more natural to me as an American. (Do you British really pronounce the first t in counterpart?)

If you or anyone else wants to volunteer to get these symbols right, I would appreciate the help. It's not too much work.

Mike

P.S. Change the font to Lucida Sans Unicode to display the IPA symbols correctly in your messages. I see, too, that you should click "disable smilies" in the options when posting.


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## Allegra

Yikes, Mike, even Americans pronounce the first [t]in "counterpart" unless you are using a dialect or accent! In truth, except in theatrical speech American English tends to 'smooth out' plosive or dental consonants, we still have to write them in the IPA for *real* speech. We wooden wan de res o de worl speakin sloppy Amurrican, now, wood we?   

Allegra, aka The Diction Queen
see The Diction Domain


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## mkellogg

Maybe I do pronounce that 't'... but not always. cow-ner-part

Anyway, please let me know of any more pronunciation symbol errors that you find so we can get the symbol mapping as correct as possible.


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## Allegra

What we tend to do in vernacular American English is turn 't' in the middle of a word to something more like the sound of a 'd'  /lIdl/  for "little", where in British English one would use the 't' sound. But I believe the 't' needs to stay in the IPA.


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## Dorian

mkellogg said:
			
		

> (Do you British really pronounce the first t in counterpart?)


And not just British people, Mike!  I've just said it 10 times in a row to myself, and it had a "t" or at the very least a "d", and I'm not British.

Isn't leaving off the "t" in words like that the same as the idea of leaving off the "h" in  "happy" the way my southern English grandmother did?  It is a valid regional linguistic variant, but not generally accepted, in my opinion.

Of course, the way I pronounce things is always correct.    I don't have an accent; it's all these people around me who do!


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## mkellogg

I never said that I pronounced it correctly!


Anyway, I need your advice.  Are the American pronunciations currently provided in the monolingual English dictionary good enough to put in the French and Italian to English dictionaries?  Or will I just face more complaints...  Right now it seems that providing pronunciation is just going to create more complaints than it is worth.

Hopefully in the next few months, I'll have some actual sound files to add to the site.


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## Dorian

mkellog said:
			
		

> Are the American pronunciations currently provided in the monolingual English dictionary good enough to put in the French and Italian to English dictionaries?


Well, I have never used the WordReference English dictionary, and the other thing, being a native English speaker, I am less likely to look at the pronunciation.  However, I think you might be be asking for trouble unless you can include alternate pronunciations.  

For example, the online dictionary that I use most often, Merriam-Webster, very much an American dictionary, has British pronunciations for two words that I looked up.  For urinal, it allows Pronunciation: 'yur-&-n&l, British also yu-'rI-n&l and for missile, Pronunciation: 'mi-s&l, chiefly British -"sIl.  If you don't have alternates like those, you may as well not do it, IMHO.

The reason I say that is that there are many parts of the world (Asia and Africa for starters) heavily influenced by British English.


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## Chez Oz

Ia m trying to nip in the bud the spelling 'pronounciation'. The correct spelling is 'pronunciation'.


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## Nick

Yes, "counterpart" (and all words with "counter" in them) need the t. But they also need the r! Where is the r? The hardest syllable of that word is the r in counter and it is not even visible. "coun-TER-part".

Even if you were someone who left off the t, you would still pronounce the r. "cow-NER-part".


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