# I am my own person



## xxpenholderxx

Hello,


can someone help me translate the following to Hebrew:

"I am my own person"


Thank you very much in advance


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## ystab

If I understand your intention correctly, "אני אדם בפני עצמי". Please provide some context to this phrase, so we might be able to give you some better advice.


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## arielipi

Its a hard one to translate as it doesnt have a  real translation
אני מה שאני
bears a negative connotation
אני עצמי
is just weird but can work


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## xxpenholderxx

ystab said:


> If I understand your intention correctly, "אני אדם בפני עצמי". Please provide some context to this phrase, so we might be able to give you some better advice.



It's a more poetic context, it is meant as a statement of independence.

But thank you very much.


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## xxpenholderxx

arielipi said:


> Its a hard one to translate as it doesnt have a  real translation



Is that because there isn't a translation for ownership in this sort context?
What I actually want to accomplish is a prase that says that I'm independent and every choice I make is one of my own, therefore I am me/myself/ own person.

And thanks again, I'm really gratefull for helping me.


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## arielipi

Precisely, there is no direct ownership in this context.


אני אדם בפני עצמי
is good enough to what you ask for or
אני עומד בפני עצמי
אני אחראי לעצמי


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## GeriReshef

אם אין אני לי מי לי?
This proverb from the Mishna (אבות) could be a possible translation.


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## Tararam

GeriReshef said:


> אם אין אני לי מי לי?
> This proverb from the Mishna (אבות) could be a possible translation.



That's more like: "If I don't act to serve my own interests, no one will".
"אני אדם עצמאי" is the closest translation, I believe.


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## hadronic

More generally speaking, how do you translate "own" like in "my own house" ?


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## ystab

You might find it odd, but the way to do that is by doubling the possessive, one time with a suffix and the other with של. Using your example, _my own house_ - ביתי שלי.


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## hadronic

So how about אני בן-אדמי שלי ? 
I think I know the answer .


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## hadronic

Actually, I've read somewhere that some nouns _can't _receive personal suffixes : משרד, מחשב, טלפון...
If true, how would you say : my own office ?


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## ystab

I wouldn't say _can't_, though it is quite funny to use personal suffixes on borrowed words. As for מחשב and משרד, I don't see any problem using these suffixes with them: משרדי שלי and מחשבו שלו.


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## hadronic

And אני בן-אדמי שלי ?


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## ystab

Well, I find the original phrase in English to be unique. How can you own or possess a person (not by enslavement)?


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## hadronic

It's no different in English. That's the magic of philosophy. Philosophy allows many things.
Now, this shouldn't be an obstacle to translation. 
This makes me think of the other topic about החפצה. Why should concepts, wild or mild, be the prerogative of English ? 
And Hebrew, just that cumbersome spoken language, that you need to switch to English as soon as it's getting more complicated ? That just destroys 50+ years of repeated efforts of modernization...


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## ystab

You can create single words, and thus concepts, in English (and other Romance and Germanic languages for instance) more easily than in Hebrew, because of two reasons, in my opinion: The basic vocabulary in English is far richer, and to that add the fact that compounding words, especially with prefixes and suffixes from Greek and Latin, and borrowing words from related languages is inherent to English.

Let's take the word _philosophy_, for example. It is a borrowed compound word from Greek, whose meaning is the love of wisdom. Try compounding אהבה and חָכמה into one word. Now, you can turn it to a construct state - אהבת חכמה, but this poses a different trouble: how can you derive an adjective from it (philosophical)? Another option is to borrow _philosophy_ as it is - פילוסופיה. Well, borrowing from the lingua franca has its own problems, especially from English into a root-based language, and it also raises questions about Niqqud: Do you put Dagesh at the beginning of the word (Pilosofya), as I have heard before? Luckily, in this case, the root ה-ג-י/ה was used to form the word הגות, but the wide majority of Hebrew speakers won't use it, because borrowing is far easier, let alone for non-native speakers.


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## hadronic

I never though about the fact you couldn't create an adjective based on a smikhut name... Unless you use as a smikhut in turn (שאלות תורת-חכמה). That said, I found one example of actual adjective based on a smikhut : ארץ-ישראלי. So what about a monstrosity like שאלות תורת-חכמתיות ? 

To go back to the initial topic : the point is to translate "I am my own person". This sentence contains no new *words*. The idea though, is new. Regardless, Hebrew should be able to express that. New *ideas* don't belong to English.


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## arielipi

אני עצמי
works and thats it, end of story,finito (incantatem)


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## Albert Schlef

arielipi said:


> אני עצמי
> works and thats it, end of story,finito (incantatem)



No, it's not "works and thats it".

Suppose your mom tells you "Arielush darling, Arielush my dear little 19y/o baby, I've scheduled an appointment for you with the dentist for 16:00". Do you reply to her "Mom, אני עצמי!", or "Mom, אני מה שאני!" ?!

No, you don't. It doesn't fit. Not because you possibly *are* a dear little baby but because these phrases don't quite convey the meaning of English's "I am my own person".


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## arielipi

And how does the reply - mom, i am my own person answers to that in English?
anyhow
אני גדול\בוגר\מבוגר\אחראי לעצמי
is good enough


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## origumi

arielipi said:


> אני גדול\בוגר\מבוגר\אחראי לעצמי


אני ילד גדול can do in certain contexts. Idiomatic and doesn't mean that the speaker is really a kid.


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