# pronunciation - t (omission of /t/ in AmE)



## adrs

Hi all!!

I've realized, at least in AmE, that native english speakers sometimes omit the /t/ in a consonat group at the end of a word, in fast informal speech. Here goes some examples.

Eg: 
ac*t*s --> /æks/
accep*t*s--> /ək'seps/
lif*t*s--> /lɪfs/
res*t*s---> /ress/
tes*t*s----> /tess/

What do you think about it? Are there any other examples like above?

Thanks all!


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## elbaciyelmo

This definitely varies by region, situation, etc. Other native speakers wouldn't be caught dead doing that!

I think the last two are less common.

Also consider "often" and "soften," which rarely have the T pronounced.


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## duvija

I have to politely disagree. Most native speakers of English, do that deletion. The question was 'in fast informal speech'. Trust me. You lose more sounds than the ones you think are correct.

"Often", is correctly pronounced [ofen]. When speakers decide to add the 't', that's called 'spelling pronounciation'. It's snobish but very much alive.

A different one: ask -> [Vks]. Is 100% used in AAVE (African American Vernacular English) and curiously, it was the correct way of pronouncing it a few centuries ago.

saludos


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## elbaciyelmo

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I mean to say that I think it is less common to delete the T in "rests" and "tests" than in the other words provided by adrs. The other words, in informal speech, tend to lose their Ts, but there is still variation to be seen depending on social groups, etc.


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## adrs

elbaciyelmo said:


> I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I mean to say that I think it is less common to delete the T in "rests" and "tests" than in the other words provided by adrs. The other words, in informal speech, tend to lose their Ts, but there is still variation to be seen depending on social groups, etc.


Thanks so much for all your suggestions guys! If anyone else wants to express their point of view, it'll be welcomed!


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## nirvanaboy257

I guess most Americans don't really notice how bad they pronounce things. (By the way, that sentence was grammatically incorrect, but a lot of people, including myself, speak like that.)

I definitely omit the t when I say "acts", "accepts", and "lifts", but I haven't really heard anyone say /ress/ or /tess/. I have to admit though, if anyone pronounced acts or accepts with a "t" I'd get a little freaked out. The only time it's socially acceptable to pronounce the "t" is when you use the past tense. Acted, accepted, lifted, rested, and tested all have the "t" sound. When you think about it, a lot of Americans omit consonants. Take "water" for example. We don't annunciate the "t" and it comes out sounding like a mix between semi-rolled r and a "d". The same goes for "butter" and "better".


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## obz

Yup, we all vary our pronunciations based on gazillions of factors. Where we are raised, go to school, whom we know, etc.
This is not at all exclusive to Americans in the least. Not even to English.

It would be quite the task to whittle (widdle) it all down to a science.

I certainly have a strong tendency towards the "d" in words with interior "t's" though it depends on the following vowel. The final t's always sound like t's.

I say "budder", but not "bedder" (better)
I say "ad least" but not "addack" (attack)

But really, who does notice how they pronounce things? You say it as those around you do, be it right or wrong, tom*A*to, tom_*a*_to.


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## obz

duvija said:


> "Often", is correctly pronounced [ofen]. When speakers decide to add the 't', that's called 'spelling *pronunciation*'. It's *snobbish *but very much alive.



You'll love this...

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html

I pronounce the "t" in often, and don't find it snobbish in the least. Go figure


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## horsewishr

nirvanaboy257 said:


> I definitely omit the t when I say "acts", "accepts", and "lifts", but I haven't really heard anyone say /ress/ or /tess/.



I have to agree.  /ress/ or /tess/ are not correct pronunciations.  The t is pronounced softly in _rests_ and _tests_--but it's definitely pronounced.


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## gengo

horsewishr said:


> I have to agree.  /ress/ or /tess/ are not correct pronunciations.  The t is pronounced softly in _rests_ and _tests_--but it's definitely pronounced.



Now wait.  Think about it, and you'll see there is something to this.

_She rests babies on her shoulder all day._

Say that very fast, and if you are like I am, you'll say "ress."

On the other hand, when the next sound is a vowel, the T is pronounced.

_She rests her head on his shoulder._

Here, the H of "her" is so weak that it is nearly absent, so the vowel sound requires the T of "rests" to be pronounced, albeit very softly.

Americans, in general, tend to be lazier in pronunciation than British, for example.  Some of my friends say "prolly" for "probably."


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## chamyto

duvija said:


> I have to politely disagree. Most native speakers of English, do that deletion. The question was 'in fast informal speech'. Trust me. You lose more sounds than the ones you think are correct.
> 
> "Often", is correctly pronounced [ofen]. When speakers decide to add the 't', that's called 'spelling pronounciation'. It's snobish but very much alive.
> 
> A different one: ask -> [Vks]. Is 100% used in AAVE (African American Vernacular English) and curiously, it was the correct way of pronouncing it a few centuries ago.
> 
> saludos


 
You can say this concerning words such as _fasten_, where "t" is silent. But , this doesn´t occur with _ often ,_ pronounced either /ofen/ or /often/
http://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=often&dict=enes&B10=Search


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## duvija

obz said:


> You'll love this...
> 
> http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html
> 
> I pronounce the "t" in often, and don't find it snobbish in the least. Go figure


 

Juaaaaaaaaaaaaa. A good one.
Still, historically (as in Historical Linguistics, an often painful subject to study), 'often' is really [ofen], but the 't' made a come back, without being called ...


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## chamyto

duvija said:


> Juaaaaaaaaaaaaa. A good one.
> Still, historically (as in Historical Linguistics, and often painful subject to study), 'often' is really [ofen], but the 't' made a come back, without being called ...


 
That´s true, only in "newest" dictionaries (books) you can find the two possibilities. I have one,about  20 years ago printed , and I only see /ofen/ .


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## Emeté

Well, I also suppose that the pronunciation of the /t/ in often might depend on the speaker's origin. For instance, my English teacher, who was born in Portsmouth (South England), always says /often/, and usually gets annoyed when his pupils say /ofen/ instead.


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## adrs

Emeté said:


> Well, I also suppose that the pronunciation of the /t/ in often might depend on the speaker's origin. For instance, my English teacher, who was born in Portsmouth (South England), always says /often/, and usually gets annoyed when his pupils say /ofen/ instead.



Well, I also think it depends on where the speaker might be;for example, I mostly hear american natives say /ofen/. However, I know well two americans, one from Wisconsin and the other one from Florida, that say /often/ with the /t/ sound.


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## elianecanspeak

I must admit my snobbism  in terms of judging "off-ten" as a hypercorrection and "offen" as the "correct" pronunciation.


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## pepeelromano

The "t" in often is optional, in soften, you can never pronounce it. I'm from Scotland and I tend to drop the "t" in all of those words when I'm speaking quickly, but then our accent is notoriously difficult to understand. I almost never pronounce a "t" at the end of a word and between vowels tends to be rendered as a glottal stop, although this is usually considered bad speech.


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## duvija

Well, 't', 'r', and to a lesser degree 's' , are the most complicated phonemes cross-linguistically. Some are unbelievable for non-natives of whatever lg. we are studying.

saludos


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## Ringox

They don't really omit that sound, they really pronounce a glottal stop instead of the "t" sound

Example:
Let take my cout! /Le?/ /teik/ maI/ cow?/
the "?" represents that sound. it's very common in the expression "ah ah" /~a?/ ~a?/
in many varities of spanish in words like
ciudad : /siu°da?/ instead /siu°dad


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## Ringox

Sorry, it was "coat"
Remember, English is not a regulated language and changing very fast.


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## Spug

Hola adrs,



adrs said:


> Well, I also think it depends on where the speaker might be (from?)...I know well two americans, one from Wisconsin and the other one from Florida, that say /often/ with the /t/ sound.



I don't think it's a regional phenomenon. I've heard speakers from several different regions of the US say "of - ten."

I believe it's accurate to say that both pronunciations are accepted, and that the most common, by a wide margin, is the one in which the _t _is silent.

Saludos...


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## pepeelromano

Ringox said:


> They don't really omit that sound, they really pronounce a glottal stop instead of the "t" sound
> 
> Example:
> Let take my cout! /Le?/ /teik/ maI/ cow?/
> the "?" represents that sound. it's very common in the expression "ah ah" /~a?/ ~a?/
> in many varities of spanish in words like
> ciudad : /siu°da?/ instead /siu°dad



Yes, when I say I don't pronounce the "t" at the end of words, I mean I pronounce it with a glottal stop. You can't miss it out altogether


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## Istriano

*must* (t pronounced)
*mustn't* (t silent)

 ain't it funny?


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## obz

_mustn't_ ... That first "t", if vocalized, would cause such an awful sound!


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## Istriano

There is also a phenomenon of ''unreleased t'' in American English, for example in words like

*mountain, button, Clinton* 

This t is not
1. aspirated
2. silent
3. tapped/flapped, but it's

unreleased


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## grubble

pepeelromano said:


> The "t" in often is optional, in soften, you can never pronounce it. I'm from Scotland and I tend to drop the "t" in all of those words when I'm speaking quickly


The glottal stop as an alternative to "t" is also common in England, especially in Estuary English. (As spoken by Tony Blair, ex British Prime Minister)


Note
_Estuary English is a dialect of English widely spoken in South East England, especially along the River Thames and its estuary. Phonetician John C. Wells defines Estuary English as "Standard English spoken with the accent of the southeast of England".[1] The name comes from the area around the Thames Estuary, particularly London, Kent, north Surrey and south Essex._Essex.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English


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## duvija

Do you realize that the aspirated [t] happens in word initial and before stressed vowel?
Thime (aspirated)
after (kinda there but not much)
attend (fully fledged t)


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## grubble

duvija said:


> Do you realize that the aspirated [t] happens in word initial and before stressed vowel?
> Thime (aspirated)
> after (kinda there but not much)
> attend (fully fledged t)



You're right, I just tried it.


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## Forero

adrs said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> I've realized, at least in AmE, that native english speakers sometimes omit the /t/ in a consonat group at the end of a word, in fast informal speech. Here goes some examples.
> 
> Eg:
> ac*t*s --> /æks/
> accep*t*s--> /ək'seps/
> lif*t*s--> /lɪfs/
> res*t*s---> /ress/
> tes*t*s----> /tess/
> 
> What do you think about it? Are there any other examples like above?
> 
> Thanks all!


If I am talking really, really fast, these _t_s disappear, but otherwise I pronounce them weakly unless I am being extremely careful. 

When I pronounce the _-schtsch-_ (or _-shch-_) in a Russian name, it tends to sound like one long _sch_, but my _-sts_ in _rests_ and _tests_ either has some sort of _t_ in the middle or sounds like an _s_ followed without a gap by another _s_, not just a long _ss_. (I hope this makes sense.)

One pronunciation I hear fairly often sounds wrong to me: "rests"/"tests" with a _t_ sound but silent _s_.


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## klanewala

Many people in different regions will omit several sounds when it comes to towns:

Trenton -> tre'in ("treh-in")
Clinton -> cli'in ("clih-in")

very colloquial and in some regions, looked down upon.


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## Aidanriley

I've noticed especially after the letter N we eat the T unless the word is really stressed.

wi*nt*er (I say it the same as winner)
poi*nt*er, etc


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## Thomas Veil

nirvanaboy257 said:


> We don't annunciate the "t" and it comes out sounding like a mix between semi-rolled r and a "d". The same goes for "butter" and "better".


The correct spelling, and pronunciation, is "*e*nunciate".



duvija said:


> Juaaaaaaaaaaaaa. A good one.
> Still, historically (as in Historical Linguistics, an often painful subject to study), 'often' is really [ofen], but the 't' made a come back, without being called ...


"Often" was the original pronunciation, then it developed into "offen", then "often" made a comeback.



elianecanspeak said:


> I must admit my snobbism  in terms of judging "off-ten" as a hypercorrection and "offen" as the "correct" pronunciation.


That should be "judging 'off-ten' *to be* a hypercorrection".



duvija said:


> Well, 't', 'r', and to a lesser degree 's' , are the most complicated phonemes cross-linguistically. Some are unbelievable for non-natives of whatever lg. we are studying.
> 
> saludos


"Unbelievable"?  Do you mean "unpronounceable"?



Ringox said:


> They don't really omit that sound, they really pronounce a glottal stop instead of the "t" sound
> 
> Example:
> Let take my cout!


Is that supposed to be an English sentence?



duvija said:


> A different one: ask -> [Vks]. Is 100% used in AAVE (African American Vernacular English) and curiously, it was the correct way of pronouncing it a few centuries ago.


My understanding is that it was a variant, not *the* correct pronunciation.


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## duvija

Aidanriley said:


> I've noticed especially after the letter N we eat the T unless the word is really stressed.
> 
> wi*nt*er (I say it the same as winner)
> poi*nt*er, etc


 

The general rule (and very well known, trust me) for that  is: if you have a stressed syllable ending in n, followed by a syllable starting with a 't' immediately followed by a vowel, that 't' goes to hell.

Best known example: twenty [tweni].
Others: Toronto, Sacramento, interest (varies, depending of which vowel disappears. If you don't pronounce the first 'e', then the syllable becomes 'trest', so the rule doesn't apply).

You have no idea how fun it is for a foreigner discover those little rules. The problem is that we cannot tell native Eng. speakers, unless they enjoy language. Otherwise, they believe that 'the rule' is a law they should follow. (A friend - a movie critic-  asked me if I was telling how to speak !).

Another difficult sound is the one in in 'twelfths', which is unpronounceable.


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## Aidanriley

I'm sitting here trying to pronounce twelfths and it *is* hard! I don't think I'd notice it in regular speech, but when I really pay attention to it it's weird to pronounce. Good tongue exercise


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## Thomas Veil

duvija said:


> Another difficult sound is the one in in 'twelfths', which is unpronounceable.


Just ignore the "th".


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## Istriano

klanewala said:


> Many people in different regions will omit several sounds when it comes to towns:
> 
> Trenton -> tre'in ("treh-in")
> Clinton -> cli'in ("clih-in")
> 
> very colloquial and in some regions, looked down upon.



I beg to differ,


1. in words like  *button, Clinton, mountain*
_t_ is neither silent or fully pronounced, it is UNRELEASED
(google ''unreleased t'')

LA ''accent coaches'' teach this pronunciation because full pronunciation
or total deletion of t's in these words don't sound native

2. in words like *winter, internet*, *center *t is, indeed, optionally pronounced, it is retained in a more formal style, but omitted (winner, innernet, cenner) informally.



(As for the t in Beautiful, there are 3 different ways of pronouncing it in the US:

1. t  is  [t]  (formal and/or British-like)
2. t  is  [d]  (voiced: beaudiful)
3. t  is [ ɾ ]  (tapped: beauriful, r stands for r in Italian/Spanish/Portuguese _amoroso_ )


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## elianecanspeak

Ringox said:


> Con permiso:
> 
> Let *[** necesitas otra palabra aquí: me/him/my friend, etc.]*  take my cout! /Le?/ /teik/ maI/ cow?/



Por ejemplo: "Dejame tomar mi abrigo". --> "Let me take my coat."


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## capitas

"My car rests at home; D'you like it? "
Very important to pronounce "t".


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## duvija

capitas said:


> "My car rests at home; D'you like it? "
> Very important to pronounce "t".


 

Which 't'?, in 'rests', 'at', or 'it'?


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## Istriano

I think* t* in res*t*less is silent.


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## gengo

Istriano said:


> I think* t* in res*t*less is silent.



A veces sí, a veces no.  Cuando hablo rápido, no la pronuncio, pero otras veces sí.  Y también depende de la persona que habla.  La pronunciación no es algo que sea fijo, especialmente en inglés (es más "fija" en español, entre los varios dialectos, pero incluso en español varia, por supuesto).


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## capitas

capitas said:


> "My car rests at home; D'you like it? "
> Very important to pronounce "t".


 
Obviusly, first T. ¿Weren't we talking about pronouncing middle sounds?
My ca -resses at home. D'you like it?


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## gengo

capitas said:


> Obviusly, first T. ¿Weren't we talking about pronouncing middle sounds?
> My ca -resses at home. D'you like it?



It wouldn't be resses, but ress.  And, yes, that is how we say it when we speak quickly.

She {ress} every day after work.

But again, it depends on the person.  Some people enunciate more than others.


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## elianecanspeak

Con permiso:



capitas said:


> "My car *rests* at home; D'you like it? "
> Very important to pronounce "t".



En los EEUU jamás utilizamos "rest" en este sentido; "rest" quiere decir "descansar".  No significa "remain" salvo en contexto limitado como "rest assured".
Tal vez en el UK, pero yo no lo he oido.

Un saludo


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## duvija

Istriano said:


> I think* t* in res*t*less is silent.


 

I didn't measure it, but I can almost bet it's like an 'intrusive stop'. In this case, basically a [d] sound. Going from [s] to [l] is really hard  (also the better known n_r. Like Hen*d*rik, ten*d*rá).

Your mouth goes thru a stage where a stop can be seen (if not always heard). It may be the case of 'restless', where I agree the t may be almost not there. If the 's' is totally pronounced (not like mine cuz I aspirate them) it gets tricky: try pronouncing any other word with 'sl'. 
(Like Iceland, but in this case I thing the 's' is actually a [d] - try saying 'Icedland' and listen to yourself.


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