# Serbian (BCS): deklinacija i aposicija



## Bruno 1234

Na srpskom, kad ima aposicija, sta treba da radim:

Gledam gospodinu Marija / Mariju
Idem do grada Bar / Bara
Trcim iz avenije Gorski / Gorskog
Govorim profesoru Kostic / Kosticu
itd.

Hvala puno.


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## VelikiMag

Pravilni su ovi drugi oblici. Mada ima i nekih grešaka. Marija je žensko ime, tako da ne može biti _gospodin_. I pravilno je reći _apozicija_.


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## Duya

Odgovor uopšte nije tako jednoznačan. Generalno, vlastita imenica se deklinira zajedno sa kvalifikativom, ali ima i dosta izuzetaka. Mislim da gramatike dopuštaju oba oblika. Evo u ovoj raspravi smo se toga dotakli, da se citiram (mada uopšte nisam siguran u svoj zaključak):



Duya said:


> Hm. The rule is different in BCS, but when I think about it, I get confused:
> 
> U državi Pensilvaniji.
> U gradu Njujorku.
> U gradu Filadelfiji.
> 
> But:
> 
> u državi Merilend.
> 
> It seems that we keep congruence, unless the first noun is fem, and the second masc.


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## Tassos

This is what Ronelle Alexander's book says: (sorry for writing in english, but I don't feel confident enough to write in BCS yet)
(Esto es lo que dice el libro de Ronelle Alexander)

Titles of books or other works of art, as well as names of buildings or organizations, if they are in apposition to another noun then *only that noun takes the case ending* and the title *remains in the nominative case*.
(Los títulos de libros u otras obras de arte, así como los nombres de los edificios o las organizaciones, si están en aposición a otro sustantivo entonces *sólo** ese sustantivo toma la terminación **de casos* y el título *sigue siendo en el caso nominativo*.)

To je iz knjige _Sporedno Nebo_
Ona čita roman _Travnička hronika_

Personal names, however, *must take case endings* even when they are in apposition to a noun
(Los nombres de personas, sin embargo, *deben tener terminaciones de los casos*, incluso cuando están en aposición a un sustantivo) 

Članak je o romanima čuvenog pisca Ive Andrića
(it doesn't mention what happens with geographical names though )


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## VelikiMag

Nešto je trulo u državi Danskoj


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## Brainiac

Tassos said:


> *Titles of books *or other *works of art*, as well as *names of buildings* or *organizations,* if they are in apposition to another noun then only that noun takes the case ending and the title remains in the nominative case.



And what about these examlpes:

O Mikelanđelovom _Davidu_ je napisano puno članaka. Članak je o Mikelanđelovom Davidu. (It's not the nominative case!)
U Narodnom pozorištu je odigrana nova predstava, uz pratnju Nacionalne filharmonije. 

They are not in the nominative case.

******
Možda u ovom zecu leži grm 

U knjizii _Prokleta avlija_, pisac.....
U _Prokletoj avliji_, pisac....


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## Tassos

@Brainiac
First I have to say that these are not _my_ views on the subject, I just have a book on BCS and I report what it says (to be honest not only to help others which I hope I do, but also to check for mistakes or omissions, as I have the opportunity to talk to native speakers - and it seems that the book has both!)
I mean if I try to say these sentences I'll probably make so many _other_ mistakes that the apposition ones would be secondary .
I wish we could contact R. Alexander and ask her what she means...

But, in my opinion, in your two sentences I think that we don't have apposition as Alexander intends it.
_*Michelangelov*_ _*David, Narodno Pozorište, Nacionalna Filharmonija *_are the full titles of the object of art and the institutions and they stand like that every time you write them in a sentence. Anyway _*Michelangelov, *__*Narodno *_and _*Nacionalna *_are adjectives and not nouns so how the fact that they are not in the nominative case is contrary to what the book says??
If you had a sentence that went:
"Yesterday I visited Florence and saw the famous statue Michelangelo's David" would you not use the nominative case??


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## Brainiac

Tassos, honey, no one has said nothing about your view on the subject, of course. It was like thinking aloud _šta je pisac hteo da kaže_ 

Please keep on providing us with more information, definitions, examples and explanations, they are very valuable. 
Thank you.

*Yesterday I visited Florence and saw the famous statue Michelangelo's David.*
Juče sam posetio Firencu i video sam poznatu Mikelanđelovu skulpturu _David.
_Juče sam posetio Firencu i video sam _Davida_, poznatu Mikelanđelovu skulpturu.

U Luvru sam video Leonardovu _Monalizu. 
_Bez titule ili naznake o kom delu, instituciji, organizaciji i sl. izgleda da se naziv (pun naziv, i imenica i pridev) deklinira.

Knjiga je lepo rekla, nema zabune, ali nije rekla sve (što zapravo ne može da se očekuje, kad razmisliš).


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## Duya

Brainiac said:


> Knjiga je lepo rekla, nema zabune, ali nije rekla sve (što zapravo ne može da se očekuje, kad razmisliš).



Brainiac, but it was you who came and expanded the subject to all noun phrases; we were focusing only at apposition, as the subject says.  



> *Apposition* is a grammatical construction in which two elements, normally noun phrases,  are placed side by side, with one element serving to define or modify  the other. For example, in the phrase "my friend Alice", the name "Alice" is in apposition to "my friend".



_Narodno pozorište_ and _Mikelanđelov David_ are not appositions, but noun phrases.


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## Bruno 1234

Imate pravo, oprostite: "apozicija" i "gospodja Marija".

U Crnoj Gori slusao sam: jesam bio u gradu Baru i na otoku Hvaru, sutra idemo ka luka Kardeljevo, ali takode, Durmitor nalazi se u opstini Zabljak (to je napisano kod mosta na Tari), manastiru Ostrog nije daleko od Niksica, u selu Bobovo ima nasa skola i od parka Durmitor do Pluzine put je stravo (jest!). Onda: moze da koristim obadva bez briga?    Hvala puno.


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## Brainiac

Duya said:


> Brainiac, but it was you who came and expanded the subject to all noun phrases; we were focusing only at apposition, as the subject says.
> _Narodno pozorište_ and _Mikelanđelov David_ are not appositions, but noun phrases.



Koji si ti.....

The point was to show that without "book", "statue", "state"... and so on, there's no apposition. Apposition is made only when there's a name that marks category of the noun that follows it, which is in the nominative.




> It seems that we keep congruence, unless the first noun is fem, and the second masc.


*u *državi *Merilend *or *u Merilendu
kod *slike* Monaliza *or *kod Monalize *(both nouns are fem.)

Oh, another thing:



> it doesn't mention what happens with geographical names though




So the book is incomplete.


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