# quod non fecerunt barbari, fecerunt Barberini



## susanna76

Hi,

I have this saying about Pope Urban VIII (Maffeo Barberini), and am wondering about its translation. I found the following:
_quod non fecerunt barbari, fecerunt Barberini,_ "what the barbarians did not do, the Barberini did."

Is that "the" necessary? ("the Barberini")

Thank you!


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## Cagey

Latin does not have the definite article, 'the'.  It appears in the translation because the translator thinks that is the best way to express the thought in English.  Generally we do use 'the' to refer to a family as a group.  If the thought is that the Barbarini family as a whole completed the work of the barbarians, 'the' is required.

_What the barbarians did not do, the Barberini did._​
You would omit 'the' if the thought is that some members of the Barberini family completed the work of the barbarians, but that not all members of the family were necessarily involved.

_What barbarians did not do, Barberini did.  _​The Wiki article on the Barberini family gives this background for the quip:

When the pope removed the ancient bronze beams from the portico of the Pantheon to procure bronze for the baldachin of St. Peter's Basilica and for the papal cannon foundry, an anonymous critic punningly wrote: [the topic sentence].​He was referring to the barbarians' sacking and despoiling of Rome. I think the charge is being leveled at the family as a whole [the Barbarini] not an unspecified number of members.


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## susanna76

Thank you, Cagey!


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## susanna76

If it's about the Barberini family, why say "the Barberini" and not "the Barberinis" though? I did a search and saw that some books use "the Barberinis."


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## Outsider

Well, I expect "Barberini" already is a plural, in Italian.


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## susanna76

You make a good point. His name was Maffeo Barberini (not Barberino, for instance). Barberini does look like a plural.


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## fdb

_fecerunt_ is plural, so its subject must be plural as well.


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## susanna76

Yes, it is. Thank you, fdb!


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## Copperknickers

Indeed, the name 'Barberini' is already plural, and strictly speaking 'Barberinis' is incorrect. The reason for this is that 'Barberini' is not a surname in the English sense but rather the name of a clan or grouping. In Italian, you literally say 'Maffeo dei Barberini' = 'Matthew of the Barberini (i.e. the Barbarino clan)'. The same goes for the Strozzi or Medici. These names supposedly derive from nicknames given to the ancestor who founded these clans, who would have been called 'Il Barberino' or 'Il Medico' respectively.


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## susanna76

Thank you, Copperknickers!


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## fdb

Maffeo Barberini is called in Latin Maphaeus Barberinus. See, for example, this: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O1157766/maffeo-barberini-print-vertue-george/

"Barberini" in your Latin epigram means "Barberinus and his kin", in short "the Barberini".


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## susanna76

Thank you, fdb! Much appreciated!


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