# Imperfect tense in the subjunctive mood



## biggles

I can't find anything about the subjunctive imperfect in my grammar book. Does it even exist? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!!


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## linguist786

uumm..yes it exists but it's VERY RARELY used!!
What is it you want to say exactly?


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## biggles

I want to say 'although life under the occupation was difficult. . . ' 
so far I have 'bien que la vie sous l'occupation etait difficile' but my computer put a green squiggly below it. do you have any sugestions?


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## DearPrudence

I suppose you should use the subjunctive imperfect but nowadays it seems very pedantic (please, don't kill me for saying that, I like this tense, really).
Here it will be:
'bien que la vie sous l'occupation fût difficile' (don't forget the pointed hat)
But usually, we'll write the same sentence as you did.


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## linguist786

Bien que la vie sous l'occupation fût difficile..

i hate using the imperfect subjunctive.. people always tell me "avoid using it" but here, i see no other way out lol.


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## linguist786

lol jinx. posted at the same time..!


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## linguist786

if it's for a coursework - use the imperfect subjunctive. they'll be dead impressed. hee hee.


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## DearPrudence

linguist786 said:
			
		

> if it's for a coursework - use the imperfect subjunctive. they'll be dead impressed. hee hee.


 

We like to discuss about this wonderful tense. I selected one thread for you
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=114087


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## biggles

thankyou! 
little-used tenses = brownie points with a-level examiners!!


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## Cath.S.

DearPrudence said:
			
		

> we'll write the same sentence as you did


.
I wouldn't. 
bien que la vie sous l'occupation _ait été_ difficile...


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## linguist786

egueule said:
			
		

> .
> I wouldn't.
> bien que la vie sous l'occupation _ait été_ difficile...


i beg to differ.

You use the passé composé (perfect tense) only when something happened ONCE in the past. and if it was a completed action.
eg - on Thursday, i played tennis - completed action in the past. (j'ai joué au tennis..)

whereas imperfect is used to talk about something that happened for a long time in the past or if you want to _describe_ something in the past. (c'était chouette/c'était difficile etc)

Seeing as we want to _describe_ life under the occupation, we would use the imperfect.


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## marget

Isn't there a difference between the passé composé and the past subjunctive? We're dealing with two entirely different tenses and moods of the verb.  I would have written the sentence in the same way as egueule did.


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## linguist786

well it depends what you mean by "past subjunctive" - there's two types remember - the _imperfect subjunctive_, and the _perfect subjunctive_.

egueule's version was in the _perfect subjunctive_, which is why i didn't agree - the imperfect subjunctive must be used in my opinion.. maybe a native can clear this up? i'm not saying i'm definitely right lol.


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## Cath.S.

linguist786 said:
			
		

> i beg to differ.
> 
> You use the passé composé (perfect tense) only when something happened ONCE in the past. and if it was a completed action.
> eg - on Thursday, i played tennis - completed action in the past. (j'ai joué au tennis..)
> 
> whereas imperfect is used to talk about something that happened for a long time in the past or if you want to _describe_ something in the past. (c'était chouette/c'était difficile etc)
> 
> Seeing as we want to _describe_ life under the occupation, we would use the imperfect.


ait été n'est pas le passé composé.
C'est le subjonctif passé.
L'emploi de l'imparfait (ou de tout autre temps de l'indicatif) après bien que est une faute.


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## dri-dri

egueule said:
			
		

> ait été n'est pas le passé composé.
> C'est le subjonctif passé.
> L'emploi de l'imparfait (ou de tout autre temps de l'indicatif) après bien que est une faute.


 
Ok, so basically what you guys are trying to say here is that, even if the action in the past is continued or it just happened once, we should just use the _subjonctif passé_ and forget about the subjonctif imparfait ??

For instance: Even though he walked everyday, he didn't like to do it.
*Bien qu'il ait marché tous les jours, il n'aimait pas le faire.  *


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## Cath.S.

Whatever you do, do not replace it with the imparfait de l'indicatif which is both ugly and wrong.

If you want to sound really (but I mean _really_) posh and old-fashioned, say
_bien qu'il marchât tous les jours_
if you don't, then use the subjonctif passé.
I fully agree with Zaby when she wrote:



> Le subjonctif imparfait n'est plus utilisé à l'oral et très peu à l'écrit, il est remplacé par le subjonctif passé ou le subjonctif présent.


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## linguist786

hmmm..still unsure about all this.
lol


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## vidyalicious

I struggle with this, too.  While I accept that the subjunctive imperfect is archaic, I have difficulty bringing myself to ignore the need for the imperfect tense.  The main reason is that if the cases presented were not to be subjunctive imperfect, in what case woudl one (or would have one) used it?

Can someone give me some translations, and hopefully help me come to terms with the whole situation?

I wish you had spoken to me earlier.

Whatever he was eating, it looked disgusting.

Thanks!


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## A Gargantua

I'd just like to add that a handy way to avoid using any tense with constructions such as Bien que+imperfect subjunctive is to write it with no verb and then add one:

Bien que difficile, la vie pendant l'occupation n'était pas si affreuse.

for example.

A Gargantua.


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## LV4-26

vidyalicious said:
			
		

> if the cases presented were not to be subjunctive imperfect, in what case woudl one (or would have one) used it?


 In literature. You can find it a lot in novels. But only there. You'll hardly ever hear it in conversations or even use it or read it in standard writing. But novelists do like it. So, if you like the subjunctive imperfect (as we all do ), the only way you can use it is to write a novel. Otherwise you'll really sound posh.


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## A Gargantua

Perhaps it is not dissimlar to the English present subjunctive. If you are the sort of person who says "if he be capable of learning, that he do so", then go ahead and use the imperfect subjunctive in French. But no-one on a regular basis will ever say "if he be in France, then I may not speak with him", just as it seems that no-one will use the imperfect subjunctive much in French.

A Gargantua.


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## emma42

Good idea, A Gargantua. Also, thanks to LV and others for useful explanations. Ah, le subjonctif imparfait, que je l'adore!


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## vidyalicious

A Gargantua said:
			
		

> I'd just like to add that a handy way to avoid using any tense with constructions such as Bien que+imperfect subjunctive is to write it with no verb and then add one:
> 
> Bien que difficile, la vie pendant l'occupation n'était pas si affreuse.
> 
> for example.
> 
> A Gargantua.



I have to question the validity of this trick here, because "Bien que difficile" here is translated as "While difficult".   This is simply a shortening of "While it was difficult." While the noun and verb are not there, they are implied.  So, the second part would still require the proper conjugation.  They are inextricably tied to teh "bien que".   (correct me if I'm wrong, of course).



Secondly, thanks for your response about the usage.  However, I don't even know the construction for subjunctive imperfect.  Care to show me where I could learn it?


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## emma42

Ah, yes, Vidyalicious, good point. Biggles, what grammar book are you using that does not explain the imperfect subjunctive?! Vid, you SHOULD be able to find construction in any grammar book. No doubt someone will direct you to the appropriate website!


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## LV4-26

vidyalicious said:
			
		

> I  So, the second part would still require the proper conjugation.


 _a. Bien que l'exercice fût difficile, il n'effrayait pas vidyalicious.

b. Bien que difficile, l'exercice n'effrayait pas vidyalicious._

See, the second part is in the indicative ("imparfait") in both a. and b. The subjunctive is required *only* in the first clause, after _bien que _and because of it.


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## vidyalicious

I stand corrected.  "B" would only require subjunctive if it were bien qu'il fut difficile..yes, I understand.  The second clause is the clause that is in imperfect, anyway.  Thank you.

Can anyone cite a good online source for learning the imperfect subjunctive?  I would appreciate it.


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## donques

Sorry to resurrect this, but if we are talking about events mentioned in the concessive clause that weren't anterior to the tense in the main clause, it should be the present subjunctive.
Bien que la vie sous l'occupation soit difficile, Carné a tourné un film.


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## The Onset of Lunacy

Online source:
leconjugueur.com

Learned of it from someone else's post 

Type in être (or any verb) and it will give you all you ever wanted, and then some.


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## englishman

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> In literature. You can find it a lot in novels. But only there. You'll hardly ever hear it in conversations or even use it or read it in standard writing. But novelists do like it. So, if you like the subjunctive imperfect (as we all do ), the only way you can use it is to write a novel. Otherwise you'll really sound posh.


Should anyone wish to see copious examples of the imperfect subjunctive, they should read "Les Rois Maudits" by Maurice Druon - I think that his contract with the publishers must have stipulated that he use it every other sentence.


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