# Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi



## simcog87

Hello!
Does anybody know what is the English equivalent for this Italian expression:
"Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi"
It means that everyone has to get married with a person from their own country and work in their own country.
Thank you in advance


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## tranquilspaces

Honestly, kind of a strange concept to me as an American. We are such a young country, and composed almost entirely of immigrants. I can't think of anything....


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## Blackman

E' un detto profondamente Italiano, dubito che esista perfino il concetto in Inglese.


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## raizpat

Forse questo può andare bene:


*Better wed over the mixen than over the moor**

**(cfr. http://www.answers.com/topic/better-wed-over-the-mixen-than-over-the-moor)*


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## simcog87

Thank you very much!


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## tranquilspaces

Never heard of this before, but the general sense I get from this expression in English is not  so much that you should marry within your own country and culture... it's more like an admonition to know what you're getting into so you don't have any unpleasant surprises later. Is that the  sense in Italian too?


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## Blackman

Yes Shannon. That is exactly the right meaning.


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## Murphy

raizpat said:


> Forse questo può andare bene:
> 
> 
> *Better wed over the mixen than over the moor*
> 
> *(cfr. http://www.answers.com/topic/better-wed-over-the-mixen-than-over-the-moor)*


 I've a feeling that if you said this today to anyone who wasn't from Yorkshire, they would look at you as if you were speaking Martian


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## raizpat

Murphy said:


> I've a feeling that if you said this today to anyone who wasn't from Yorkshire, they would look at you as if you were speaking Martian



Very likely! But also in Italy, at present we don't have all those oxen...


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## simcog87

Murphy said:


> I've a feeling that if you said this today to anyone who wasn't from Yorkshire, they would look at you as if you were speaking Martian


 


Ah ok! Good to know!!


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## tranquilspaces

I would just like to mention that in addition to never hearing this expression before today, I also have no clue what a mixen is.


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## Murphy

I'm not surprised, Shannon.  Neither had I, but if you're _really _interested, it appears to be a word from Old English meaning "dunghill".  See this helpful link from "answers.com" http://www.answers.com/topic/mixen


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## tranquilspaces

Hilarious! Is this supposed to be a proverb or a joke?


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## rrose17

What about the horrid (It's better to) "stick to your own kind"? Is that the same sort of feeling?


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## tranquilspaces

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't!



rrose17 said:


> What about the horrid (It's better to) "stick to your own kind"? Is that the same sort of feeling?



Not sure about this one, Rose... I think of this (yes, agreed, horrid) slur as something people direct at those who are different from them, not to members of their own group. More of a "get away from us." Do you agree?


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## rrose17

tranquilspaces said:


> Not sure about this one, Rose... I think of this (yes, agreed, horrid) slur as something people direct at those who are different from them, not to members of their own group. More of a "get away from us." Do you agree?


 
I don't know. I think it could be used either way. 
WHy don't you stick to your own kind? Get away from my people. (said the prospective mother-in-law to the "foreign" girl whom her son had taken up with.)
But also
You'll only find heartbreak with her. It's better to stick to your/our own kind. (said the mother to her son.)


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## Dragoncella

Buondì,
qualcuno saprebbe dirmi se "it's better to marry over the mixen than over the moor" usato per tradurre il detto italiano "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" è attuale, cioè comprensibile anche oggi. O esiste un modo migliore per tradurlo?
Grazie


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## london calling

Dragoncella said:


> Buondì,
> qualcuno saprebbe dirmi se "it's better to marry over the mixen than over the moor" usato per tradurre il detto italiano "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" è attuale, cioè comprensibile anche oggi. O esiste un modo migliore per tradurlo?
> Grazie


Mai sentito in vita mia! Sono quindi andata a cercarlo. 

Qui dicono che sia comune nel Cheshire (ma non a Londra, evidentemente), detto però così:
_Better wed over the mixen than over the moor
_
Poi in Scozia:
_Better over the midden than over the muir
_
Ed ecco qui delle altre versioni da "A Dictionary of Proverbs".

Non mi viene in mente nulla di più moderno, sorry.


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## Tunalagatta

Dragoncella said:


> Buondì,
> qualcuno saprebbe dirmi se "it's better to marry over the mixen than over the moor" usato per tradurre il detto italiano "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" è attuale, cioè comprensibile anche oggi. O esiste un modo migliore per tradurlo?
> Grazie


Come london calling, mai sentito prima - è molto antiquato e dubito che c'è molta gente che lo conoscirebbe o capirebbe oggi.


tranquilspaces said:


> Never heard of this before, but the  general sense I get from this expression in English is not  so much that  you should marry within your own country and culture... it's more like  an admonition to know what you're getting into so you don't have any  unpleasant surprises later. Is that the  sense in Italian too?


Se  questo è il vero senso di "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" (fino ad oggi  ho sempre pensato che fosse un'espressione razzista ...) direi semplicemente, "Know what you're letting yourself in for/getting yourself into [before making an important decision]".


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## Kishu

Ciao a tutti, su questo sito http://italian.about.com/library/proverbio/blproverbiom.htm si dà una traduzione letterale del proverbio.



Native English, can they be used and sound natural?


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## london calling

Kishu said:


> Ciao a tutti, su questo sito http://italian.about.com/library/proverbio/blproverbiom.htm si dà una traduzione letterale del proverbio.
> 
> 
> 
> Native English, can they be used and sound natural?




Il link mi sembra  parecchio attendibile.


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## Kishu

Ciao,
ebbene sì, le traduzioni mi sembravano piuttosto maccheroniche e me ne avete dato conferma


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## Mary49

What about *birds of a feather flock together *(che però in realtà è più vicino a "Chi si assomiglia si piglia") ? or *choose a bird from your own backyard *? Fonte: http://ita.proz.com/
*

*


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## MR1492

The page appears to do a reasonable job of getting the ideas translated and not just the words.

I think Mary's suggestion is pretty good but not quite spot on.  I don't remember a saying quite like "_Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi_" in AE although my father always insisted that I should marry a "good Italian girl!"

Phil


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## rrose17

And to paraphrase Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz "(For your heart's desire) don't look any further than your own backyard."


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## london calling

Hey Phil!

Did you take your dad's advice and marry a good Italian girl, by the way? 

@rrose: _Don't look any further than your own backyard_ I like. It gets the idea across much better than all the "mixen" versions (which I think all of us had to look up, right?), because it's readily understandable.

*What do you think we could call bad Italian spoken/ written by native speakers of English? But don't aswer that...we're already OT with this one.:


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## mflcs

What a fantastic reference to deadmanwriting!  Mille grazie, Kischu.


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## Tonino Burato

*B*etter the devil y*o*u know than the devil y*o*u do not know is the most appropriated one by streets ahead


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## Matrap

Ciao Tonino e benvenuto 

Maiuscole, punteggiatura e parole scritte in modo completo sono un optional?


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## tsoapm

Murphy said:


> I've a feeling that if you said this today to anyone who wasn't from Yorkshire, they would look at you as if you were speaking Martian


I was born in Yorkshire and lived there for a while: it meant nothing to me! There's something to be said for "Better the devil you know", but it's not really the same idea is it?


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## sincopear

tsoapm said:


> I was born in Yorkshire and lived there for a while: it meant nothing to me! There's something to be said for "Better the devil you know", but it's not really the same idea is it?


Hi Everyone! To my knowledge, the proverb: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" in Italian would rather mean the proverb: "Chi lascia la strada vecchia per la nuova sa quel che lascia, ma non sa quel che trova". On the other hand, "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" is an Italian proverb that is not easily rendered in English, even if most of the above mentioned translations give a fair idea of the Italian meaning.


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## london calling

sincopear said:


> Hi Everyone! To my knowledge, the proverb: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" in Italian would rather mean the proverb: "Chi lascia la strada vecchia per la nuova sa quel che lascia, ma non sa quel che trova". On the other hand, "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" is an Italian proverb that is not easily rendered in English, even if most of the above mentioned translations give a fair idea of the Italian meaning.



I agree.  The devil you know....  Is not the same as 'Moglie e buoi.... '


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