# Do Americans really believe in God?



## etornudo

Do most Americans actually believe in God? Or do they just report that they do in the polls because they think it's the right thing to say? Or is it that they don't really think about God's existence so they don't realize that they really don't believe in God at all?


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## cuchuflete

Define God.


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## etornudo

The name God refers to the deity held by monotheists to be the supreme reality. God is believed to be the sole creator, or at least the sustainer, of the universe. As of 2007, a majority of human beings generally believe in a monotheistic God, usually in some form of the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


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## yiis

Yes, many Americans believe in some "God".  The Christian God is one of the more common ones.  Yes, it is true some Americans say they believe in God just to be "good" people.  But on the other hand, there are many people who honestly and truly believe in Him.


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## cuchuflete

etornudo said:


> The name God refers to the deity held by monotheists to be the supreme reality. God is believed to be the sole creator, or at least the sustainer, of the universe. As of 2007, *a majority of human beings generally believe in a monotheistic God,* usually in some form of the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


_emphasis added.

_This is confusing.  When it comes to citizens of a single country, you pointedly inquire if the stated belief is genuine. Then, minutes later, you declare that a majority of human beings generally believe.  Are you quite sure that the majority, which includes the Americans whose declaration you hold up to question, are really believers?  Are the polls, or other data sources you consult for "a majority of human beings" more reliable than those which limit themselves to responses from Americans?


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## tvdxer

Yes, I think the vast majority of Americans truly believe in a God.  I can't go into anybody's head, but it would appear that they do.

I don't see what's so strange about that?


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## GEmatt

> As of 2007, a majority of human beings generally believe in a monotheistic God, usually in some form of the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


I'd be really interested in your source.
GEmatt


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## winklepicker

tvdxer said:


> Yes, I think the vast majority of Americans truly believe in a God. I can't go into anybody's head, but it would appear that they do. I don't see what's so strange about that?


 
Some countries where majority belief is evidenced by regular religious attendance:

Iran
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Pakistan
USA


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## .   1

GEmatt said:


> I'd be really interested in your source.
> GEmatt


So would a hell of a lot of Chinese and Indian people.

.,,


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## JamesM

I know I'll probably be accused of "hijacking a thread", but the trick word in the question is "really".  What does "really believe" mean?  We can only go by what people say and what people do.  We can't look inside them and determine whether the belief is genuine or not.  I do think that a large number of people in the U.S. are active in some sort of faith community.  To me that's a sign that the belief does affect their actions.


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## Lombard Beige

Isn't the US now defined as "one nation under a generic monotheistic deity"?

regards


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## maxiogee

etornudo said:


> The name God refers to the deity held by monotheists to be the supreme reality. God is believed to be the sole creator, or at least the sustainer, of the universe. As of 2007, a majority of human beings generally believe in a monotheistic God, usually in some form of the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.



That is but one definition of the word God.
"God" is not an exclusive trade-name of monotheism.


Before you go asking questions about 'Americans' - grand bit of generalisation being asked for from the forer@s there - and their beliefs, should you not best be advised to seek information on what it is you are asking about their beliefs.

Do Americans believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, or Maxiogee's invisible orbiting fun-fair.


In using the word 'God' you lump together all the personal nuances which people have conjured up which distinguish 'their' creator from that of the heathens ten miles down the road. Getting a 'yes' to your question wouldn't actually tell you anything. You need to then find out what form their divinity takes.


Then it might be interesting to ask them why they believe in their God.
What gives them reason to credit its existence.
Beware of the the ones who say that have met with or been spoken to by their God. Many who claim this have been shown to be seriously deluded about the nature of the reality they inhabit.
When you do get answers, see what it is about the experiences which make the people believe in their particular interpretation of God as against any other. Most "religious experiences" I have heard of come disassociated from any sect/cult/creed and could be generally lumped under the heading "deep personal spiritual insight" by an disinterested observer. The person having the experience usually adorns and interprets the event with their own personal cultural baggage and expectations.


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## Super Wombat

I can't help wanting to extend the question to people from all over the World...
The World keeps getting smaller with internet...

When I was a teenager there were a lot of atheists around! But it seems as the decades pass, I bump into lesser and lesser of them...

JMiV


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## cuchuflete

JustMarriedinVenice said:


> I can't help wanting to extend the question to people from all over the World...
> The World keeps getting smaller with internet...
> 
> When I was a teenager there were a lot of atheists around! But it seems as the decades pass, I bump into lesser and lesser of them...



You could open a new thread, but you would still have only a tiny subset of the active members of this forum as a data source.  Therefore your results would be as meaningless as those for any one country.  Poll data says that _X_ % of people in _Y_ country believe in _Z_.  You may judge those poll responses to be accurate or not, and the respondents to be sincere or not in what they tell the pollsters.


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## Super Wombat

A question of relativity, as well as subjectivity... 

I find the other forum going on about atheists is extremely related to this one... but catching a lot more discussion!

In the above forum, someone also mentioned that it was easier not to have to talk about God, than to define or speak of such a vast and personal theme...


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## .   1

JustMarriedinVenice said:


> When I was a teenager there were a lot of atheists around! But it seems as the decades pass, I bump into lesser and lesser of them...


Is that because you don't get out very much or just that your aim is failing?


A kid goes to Confession and after the "Bless me Father for I have sinned" starts to stutter and stumble.
The priest is a bit short of time and starts to prompt him.
Priest, "Is it so very serious then?"
Teen, "Oh yes.  Dad'll kill me."
Priest, "Did you get someone in the family way?"
Teen, "No, it's worse than that."
Priest, "Worse you say.  Have you killed anybody?"
Teen, "No, much worse."
Priest, "You're not an athiest??"
Teen, "No, I'm gay!"
Priest, "Thank Christ for that."

It is far easier to 'come out' as an athiest today than when I was a kid.  Logic and science are readily available to anybody interested in reading.
Overtly religious are treated in much the same way as overtly athiestic people were treated when I was a boy.

.,,


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## TRG

cuchuflete said:


> Define God.


 
I can't speak for people on the forum, but if you ask this question of any American, it will not be necessary to define god; the vast majority will instinctively know what you mean. I think the answer is yes.


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## Outsider

etornudo said:


> Do most Americans actually believe in God? Or do they just report that they do in the polls because they think it's the right thing to say?


How are we supposed to tell the difference?

Here's a thought: politicians in a democracy generally mold their speech and their image on what they perceive of the wishes of the majority. It seems to me that in the U.S. politicians are always very cautious to at least appear to be religious. Do you think they would bother to do that, if Americans weren't really religious?


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## JamesM

Outsider said:


> How are we supposed to tell the difference?


 
Agreed.  That's the sticking point of this question.



> Here's a thought: politicians in a democracy generally mold their speech and their image on what they perceive of the wishes of the majority. It seems to me that in the U.S. politicians are always very cautious to at least appear to be religious. Do you think they would bother to do that, if Americans weren't really religious?


 
Well, to play devil's advocate for a moment,  the politicians might bother to do that if Americans were also being cautious to _appear _religious.

That said, I know that many people I've met who are visiting from other countries are surprised at the number of Americans who attend a house of worship regularly, speak of their faith, and also take actions in line with their faith.


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## djchak

Here's a thought:

Why does it matter?

Does it signify ignorance, faith, or both?


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## etornudo

tvdxer said:


> Yes, I think the vast majority of Americans truly believe in a God.  I can't go into anybody's head, but it would appear that they do.
> 
> I don't see what's so strange about that?



Thanks, that's the kind of response I was looking for.


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## etornudo

Outsider said:


> Do you think they would bother to do that, if Americans weren't really religious?



That's a very good point. Except many Americans may feel that politicians should be religious but that they don't have to be. They may feel that a believer is more trustworthy even if they are not believers themselves and still are trustworthy.

People may just believe that they don't need God to keep them honest but that politicians do so they vote for believers because they feel those believers think they have to answer to a higher power.


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## cuchuflete

etornudo said:


> Originally Posted by *tvdxer*
> Yes, I think the vast majority of Americans truly believe in a God. I can't go into anybody's head, but it would appear that they do.
> 
> I don't see what's so strange about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, that's the kind of response I was looking for.
Click to expand...




etornudo said:


> That's a very good point. Except many Americans may feel that politicians should be religious but that they don't have to be. They may feel that a believer is more trustworthy even if they are not believers themselves and still are trustworthy.
> 
> People may just believe that they don't need God to keep them honest but that politicians do so they vote for believers because they feel those believers think they have to answer to a higher power.



I do most sincerely believe that I've just witnessed a concatenation of speculation.


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## .   1

cuchuflete said:


> I do most sincerely believe that I've just witnessed a concatenation of speculation.


I don't know what it is but at first blush I will ensure that I don't step in it.

.,,


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## etornudo

cuchuflete said:


> I do most sincerely believe that I've just witnessed a concatenation of speculation.



Yes. I should have said that in the original post. Mea culpa. I'm looking for just that. Please speculate!


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## Hockey13

etornudo said:


> That's a very good point. Except many Americans may feel that politicians should be religious but that they don't have to be. They may feel that a believer is more trustworthy even if they are not believers themselves and still are trustworthy.
> 
> People may just believe that they don't need God to keep them honest but that politicians do so they vote for believers because they feel those believers think they have to answer to a higher power.


 
I am agnostic and I strongly fear anyone who has power and is 100% convinced that the universe is set out one way or another. I personally have studied history and found that politicians who claim to be religious are often far from morally upstanding, so any correlation between the two is a massive spasm of imagination on the voter's behalf.

I cannot stand how politicians in this country _always, always, always_ finish their speeches with "and may God bless America!" It infuriates me that they think they need to throw that at the end as a safety net in case nobody liked what they said.


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## olivinha

Well, their currency sure does.
It always amazes/amuses me to read "In God, we trust" printed in every American dollar.
O


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## Hockey13

olivinha said:


> Well, their currency sure does.
> It always amazes/amuses me to read "In God, we trust" printed in every American dollar.
> O


 
Yes. In fact, I once got into a very heated debate with Andrew Jackson about the meaning of life.


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## Macunaíma

olivinha said:


> Well, their currency sure does.
> It always amazes/amuses me to read "In God, we trust" printed in every American dollar.
> O


 
We should do the same in Brazil, adding "In God we trust that this will last till my next pay day".


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## mieumieu

I don't think that it is fair to generalize.  I think everyone is different.  Some probably genuinely believe in god, others most likely don't.


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## winklepicker

olivinha said:


> It always amazes/amuses me to read "In God, we trust" printed in every American dollar.


 
It could be worse. At least the dollar doesn't claim Him as their own. 

R F Delderfield

Nazi Germany

Bob Dylan


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## ghoti

Why does it matter?

It matters because people are curious.

Toward the end of his life, St. Thomas Aquinas, one of the most brilliant people who ever lived, suddenly appears to have had a private revelation or some such and put down his books (of which he apparently wrote at least three simultaneously) and simply said words to the effect of "It's all straw."

Whereupon a whole cottage industry sprang up.

"Do you believe in God?" can be a pretty meaningless question, especially since "believe" and "God" defy easy definition. Many Christian saints and holy people wind up not in "what a friend we have in Jesus"-land, but in apophatic theology, the realization that everything you can say about God is false because God (however you understand him/her/it) is by definition (?) greater than we are and therefore can understand us, while we can't understand him/her/it. It suddenly starts to sound a lot like Hinduism and Buddhism. Read late works by Thomas Merton, Bede Griffiths.

This was not St. Thomas's new revelation, since he already knew that, at least intellectually. In his _Summa_ he explains that we can call God "good" only by analogy, since what is "good" about God is so much greater than anything that we know about "goodness."

At any rate, for us mere mortals, I think JamesM has hit on something, the "faith without works is dead" argument, that people who truly believe, as opposed to those who just want to appear godly, let their actions reflect their faith. And their pocketbooks seem to follow.

I think it's true that some political candidate who gets up to the microphone in the United States and says, "I'm Jim Smith, I'm an athiest, and I'd like to be your senator" is just about as good as dead. Americans want elected officials who espouse some kind of religion that appears mainstream (Sorry, Mitt. But you finally made it, JFK). There may be a lot of force of habit there, however, and within a generation we may be like the Netherlands, where churches are pretty unpopulated, or Scandinavia. Pope Benedict XVI is "exercised" for good reason.


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## olivinha

winklepicker said:


> It could be worse. At least the dollar doesn't claim Him as their own.
> 
> R F Delderfield
> 
> Nazi Germany
> 
> Bob Dylan


 
We understand that Bob Dylan was being sarcastic and ironic in that song, right? I hope it was listed with the nazi link only to illustrate two very opposite positions. 
O


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## olivinha

ghoti said:


> I think it's true that some political candidate who gets up to the microphone in the United States and says, "I'm Jim Smith, I'm an athiest, and I'd like to be your senator" is just about as good as dead. Americans want elected officials who espouse some kind of religion that appears mainstream (Sorry, Mitt. But you finally made it, JFK). There may be a lot of force of habit there, however, and within a generation we may be like the Netherlands, where churches are pretty unpopulated, or Scandinavia. Pope Benedict XVI is "exercised" for good reason.


 
So your answer to the question is yes, and that not only Americans do believe in God, but their faith affects their political choice (with an unfavourable bias against atheists). Is that it?

Do Americans really believe in God? Will Americans ever elect an atheist president? Well, "ever" is a strong word, so let me rephrase the question: Is it absurd to think that Americans could elect an atheist president sometime this century?
O


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## Hockey13

olivinha said:


> So your answer to the question is yes, and that not only Americans do believe in God, but their faith affects their political choice (with an unfavourable bias against atheists). Is that it?


 
Careful about saying "Americans do X" because no matter how you phrase the statement, it is inherently false based on the fact that not all Americans are the same. From my experience, I've noticed that most Americans make their choice based on the *issues* of an election. I don't know how it would turn out for the whole country if an athiest ran against a theist because I cannot recollect a time that it has happened on the national stage. The only instance I can recall is a fictional one from _The West Wing_ when the Republican candidate was an athiest, and he essentially just skirted the issue by sticking to the _real_ issues of the election. I think that if the candidate did not push his beliefs down people's throats, there would be little problem with him in the mainstream public. In my opinion, I think only religious extremists would vote based on that issue alone. 

I personally would vote for the candidate who I liked better based on how he would perform the job. If he is an athiest and intends to restrict religious freedom, I would most likely vote against him if the other candidate were religious and for all freedoms that I consider vital to a healthy democracy.



> Do Americans really believe in God? Will Americans ever elect an atheist president? Well, "ever" is a strong word, so let me rephrase the question: Is it absurd to think that Americans could elect an atheist president sometime this century?
> O


 
I'm sure some Americans do. I do not and I am from America. I think an athiest president could easily be elected in the next 100 years, and possibly even in the next 50 years. It all depends on how my generation ages, much like the current political arena depended heavily on how my parents aged.


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## Lombard Beige

JamesM said:


> ...  That said, I know that many people I've met who are visiting from other countries are surprised at the number of Americans who attend a house of worship regularly, speak of their faith, and also take actions in line with their faith.



Anecdote: 
I used to work in a multinational context in upstate New York, and I observed the following incident on Ash Wednesday. 

An American lady comes in with a very obvious black ASH stain on her forehead. An Italian (i.e. from Italy) lady collegue goes over and wipes it off ...

Cultural background: 
The Italian lady thought she was doing something nice. 
The American lady felt offended  for two reasons: 
1) she thought the Italian lady was attacking her religious beliefs: "Strange I thought the Italians were Catholics", 
2) The Italian lady touched her, as is quite normal here in Italy, wiith no intention to be familiar or disrespectful, but simply as a gesture of "human solidarity", and because people here (Northern Italy) don't usually and haven't for years made such open display of their beliefs.

Consequence: a quasi-diplomatic incident.

regards


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## maxiogee

olivinha said:


> Do Americans really believe in God? Will Americans ever elect an atheist president? Well, "ever" is a strong word, so let me rephrase the question: Is it absurd to think that Americans could elect an atheist president sometime this century?
> O


 
a) How can anyone answer that question honestly?
(a1) No possibility is absurd to a mind which can think it up.
b) How long will this century last?
c) Will God (assuming one exists) make its presence manifest this century?
d) Might there - during the century - turn out to be conclusive proof of the non-existence of any God?
e) Does it matter that anyone now might answer yes or no to that question and be proved wrong in 80 years time?
(f) They may already have done so - but we don't know.


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## olivinha

Hockey13 said:


> Careful about saying "Americans do X" because no matter how you phrase the statement, it is inherently false based on the fact that not all Americans are the same.


 
Hockey, I totally agree with you. 
I did not mean to say what Americans do and do not; I was just trying to summarize my understandig or my interpretation of Ghoti´s post. So, my apologies for poorly expressing myself on my previous post.


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## winklepicker

Hockey13 said:


> From my experience, I've noticed that most Americans make their choice based on the *issues* of an election.


I was in the US in the heat of the first Clinton election. I was astonished by the quality of the debate, in all papers and on all channels - focused on the issues, lively, intelligent and at least as thoughtful as anything in Europe. 

Why was I astonished? Because over here, the picture the media portray of US elections is of a bunch of mindless cheerleaders with hats, buttons and stickers. Moral: do not believe everything you read in the papers or see on TV.


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## Outsider

I watched some of the debates of the last American presidential election (Bush vs. Kerry) on TV, and I too was impressed by their impeccable organization and civility. Of course, both candidates dodged some hot issues, but that's normal in politics. On the other hand, the debates don't seem to have had much of an effect on the outcome of the election...


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## cuchuflete

*Do Americans really believe in God?*


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## Lombard Beige

The words "... all men are created equal, .. they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable [that's how it's written in the text I'm copying] rights, ... among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness ..." would seem to indicate that the founders of the USA DID, but, as many of them were Deists, etc., they remained ambiguous about their definition of God, while however using the word frequently ("one nation under God", "in God we trust", etc.)

Possibly the situation hasn't changed too much in terms of ambiguity (which is not necessarily a bad thing, considering countries which profess to have very clear cut ideas about God).

regards


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## TrentinaNE

olivinha said:


> Do Americans really believe in God? Will Americans ever elect an atheist president? Well, "ever" is a strong word, so let me rephrase the question: Is it absurd to think that Americans could elect an atheist president sometime this century?
> O


This might belong in the "What is it like to be an atheist where you are?" thread but...

The next century is a very long time, especially given the recent rapidity of change. There might not even *be* a United States by 2098.  But it's unimaginable to me that Americans would elect an admistted atheist an president in the current climate, and I don't foresee a change to that any time soon.


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## cuchuflete

Some do. Some don't.  The % in each camp, and in that of the uncertain, and in that of the indifferent, is a matter of educated guessing. Or uneducated guessing!


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## Hockey13

Lombard Beige said:


> *they remained ambiguous about their definition of God, while however using the word frequently ("one nation under God", "in God we trust", etc.)*


 
If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe those things were written or used by the Founding Fathers. Those are later appendages.


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## .   1

olivinha said:


> We understand that Bob Dylan was being sarcastic and ironic in that song, right? I hope it was listed with the nazi link only to illustrate two very opposite positions.
> O


I think it utterly impossible for a person to be familiar enough with the work of Robert Zimmerman to understand the full implications of the inclusion of the 'With god On Our Side' reference. I have never heard a more sarcastic anti-war lament and I doubt if Shakespeare could improve on it. It may have been listed with the Nazi link to illustrate some chillingly similar contemporary sentiments. At least that is how I took it.

I have no idea if Americans believe in God.  I wish all believers grace and happiness to the rest.

.,,


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## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:


> *Do Americans really believe in God?*



No need to raise your voice, we heard the message the first time.

Shall we wait until Mr Gallup has done one of his polls - preferably one where they ask everyone and not just a representative sample? That way we might reach an acceptable answer.

*Would someone please shoot this thread and put us out of its misery! *


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## Hockey13

maxiogee said:


> No need to raise your voice, we heard the message the first time.
> 
> Shall we wait until Mr Gallup has done one of his polls - preferably one where they ask everyone and not just a representative sample? That way we might reach an acceptable answer.


 
If he intends to do it properly, the truth serum industry might be seeing black for the first time since the Cold War.


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## .   1

maxiogee said:


> *Would someone please shoot this thread and put us out of its misery! *


The damn thing has eternal life and is constantly being reincarnated in various guises.  It is fascinating just how many fishers of men are phishing for this fishy information.

.,,


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## JamesM

Hockey13 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe those things were written or used by the Founding Fathers. Those are later appendages.


 
I agree. I believe they were both added in the 1950s. However, The Declaration of Independence does include the Creator in it,and God:


_When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation._

_We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness_.


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## Lombard Beige

JamesM said:


> I agree. I believe they were both added in the 1950s. ...



Does that apply also to "in God we trust" on the coins, etc. 

I thought it was older than that, as there was a joke: "In God we trust, but  everyone else pays cash !".

The Jeffersonian et al. reference to "Nature's God" also seems to me to be a bit more Deist than mainline Protestant, or not? 

regards


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## Poetic Device

Speaking for myself, I believe in the GOD of Abraham, and in the way that i worship him. I know a lot of people here that say that they believe and they really don't and I know more of them that believe He exists, just not on their side.


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## Hockey13

Poetic Device said:


> ...I know more of them that are on the agnostic side, meaning, they believe He exists, just not on their side.


 
 

That is not the meaning of agnosticism.


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## Poetic Device

I'm sorry, that is what was explained to me.  Am I getting it mixeed up with athiesm?  No....  That's when they don't believe at all, correct?


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## Lombard Beige

To avoid a possible error: 

Wasn't "Gott mitt Uns" the slogan of United Germany also pre Hitler, for example during World War I, along with the national anthem "Deutschland ueber Alles"?

And what about the British Royal crest with the motto: "Dieu et mon Droit! (God and my Right)?

regards


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## Hockey13

Poetic Device said:


> I'm sorry, that is what was explained to me. Am I getting it mixeed up with athiesm? No.... That's when they don't believe at all, correct?


 
Sorry, I didn't mean to appear snappy.  

Agnosticism is the acceptance of the fact that there is not enough physical evidence to either prove or disprove the claims made by any religion. It's like saying:

"I know that I don't know and I'm fine with that since taking a position on the subject in either direction will include a leap of logic*."

*My form of logic, of course, which excludes spiritual claims.

It's why many religious people classify agnostics as atheists.


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## GenJen54

My guess is based upon the approximately 9 churches and 1 "mega-church" in the 2 square mile vicinity of my house, that yes, many Americans believe in God, or at least make the outward attempt to do so.  I live in the "Bible Belt," however, so my area is probably not representative of other parts of the country.

Until someone has the gumption and means to poll all 300 million "Americans," (assuming we are only talking about U.S. Americans), and is able to provide irrefutable evidence based upon a scientifically-valid survey, then I would say the subject is closed. 

Our current meanderings are getting us close to nowhere.


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