# Is tourism really so bad?



## xarruc

I was in Parc Güell a week or two back and saw this slogan written on an 'okupied' house (okupa = squatter) overlooking the park:

"Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot them?"

Apart from the nonsense of the slogan - Among our many other types of season there is a milking season - I was shocked by the vemenence of this sentiment. Granted, tourist areas do seem to have a  love-hate relationship with tourists; in general they drive up prices and push quality down, however they keep themselves to themselves and throw enormous amounts of money around.

This though I think comes from a sense that the tourists strip the culture from the city. So my question to you is whether tourism is the new open-cast mining, has no net effect on the local culture or  enriches the  host area by bringing new ideas.


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## maxiogee

Ireland loves tourists - please ignore the thread starter. Prices are not driven up and quality is not driven down.
The very thought! 

You wonder whether tourism has any net effect on culture, or enriches an area? 
Why should it? 
It is just another industry. Does the XYZ industry in ABCland enrich the area or have an effect on the culture?


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## .   1

Tourism in an area designed for tourists are fine but these areas are generally reserved like ski resourts and tropical islands or theme parks.
The problems stem from the use of residential towns as tourist attractions.
Byron Bay is a prime example.
40 years ago Byron was an industrial town and the quality of life of people in the town was excellent.  There was a thriving tightly knit local community an no body had heard of the place.
Then the beaches and rocks became famous and the place is now filled with tourists and day trippers and there is no local community.  All that is left is a series of shop fronts designed to separate the marks from their dollars and a thriving industry in scraping each day's layer of scum left by each day's layer of tourists.
This has left Byron with a weird mixture of very rich land owners getting ever richer and a sub class of hospitality workers living from pay check to pay check.

Robert


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## Hockey13

Venice wouldn't exist if they banned tourists. 99% of the economy of that city is based on tourism. Yes, it's crowded with tourists, but without their funding the place, you wouldn't be able to see it at all.


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## .   1

Hockey13 said:


> Yes, it's crowded with tourists, but without their funding the place, you wouldn't be able to see it at all.


I am still analysing the inherent contradiction of this sentence.

.,,


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## ernest_

Tourism and consumerism, the two plagues of capitalism. Those are Mark Renton's words and I couldn't agree more with him, even if he is a fictional character. Just look what they've done to Mallorca, totally ruined. And we are going the same way.


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## Hockey13

. said:


> I am still analysing the inherent contradiction of this sentence.
> 
> .,,


 
Well...yes...but I think you know what I mean. People always complain about the tourists in Venice, but if it wasn't that crowded, you might not be able to see it as well as you can now.


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## cuchuflete

Thinking out loud.....

I live in a tourist area, Coastal Maine.

Pros and cons of tourism:

1-Cons: (let's get the negatives out of the way quickly.) Traffic.  Massachusetts driving habits...much more aggressive than those of local residents.  Traffic.

2-Pros: 
a.Major support for the local economy, which otherwise lives on subsistance farming in an area with a short growing season and poor clay soil that barely covers the glacial ledge, and on fishing.  
b.Many tourist fall in love with the area, for the natural beauty and good people and clean air and water.  They eventually come here to live, which is also good for the economy, but drives up land and home prices for the locals.  The locals sell property to the people coming in, make a fine profit, and then complain that the folks "from away" have driven up housing costs.   The net effect of the immigration is positive not only for the economy, but for the injection of varied thinking.  My neighbors include natives, and people from many other states in the US and a few other countries.  This is "the boonies", a sparsely populated place hours away from any large city, yet it is surprisingly forward thinking and open minded.  Some of those attitudes are due, indirectly, to tourism and the eventual migration of tourists here.
c. Services/arts: due to the warm weather tourist population, we have very good bookstores that otherwise would not be supported by such a small population as live here year round, and we have lots of art galleries, a thriving theatre and music season, and other things rarely found in small villages and towns.  We also have a range of museums that are a very pleasant surprise for people not used to such things in towns of 5000 residents and fewer.


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## cuchuflete

Hockey13 said:


> Well...yes...but I think you know what I mean. People always complain about the tourists in Venice, but if it wasn't that crowded, you might not be able to see it as well as you can now.



Hockey has been studying the aphorisms of Yogi Berra, such as, "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."


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## Trina

. said:


> [...]40 years ago Byron was an industrial town and the quality of life of people in the town was excellent.  There was a thriving tightly knit local community an no body had heard of the place.[...]


I disagree in that Byron Bay is still a very tightly knit community. Granted, the community has changed in composition but if you try to actually relocate there, it is hard to gain acceptance from the locals. But, yes, when I drive up north, I avoid it because it is too touristy! 

Now back to the main topic...
In many places, tourism is pretty much the only industry and if it weren't for the tourist dollar/yen/euro, these places would suffer a great deal more hardship.

I am very interested to hear from people who actually live in a high tourist area, especially Venice. Venice, I admit was the first place to spring to my mind and I have heard (please not that this is not my opinion) that many Venetians resent tourists, although they do realise that they (the tourists) are good for the economy and without tourism, Venice could possibly sink (literally). I have heard Venice being referred to as having no Italian culture and being nothing but a living theme park. Well, this may be true if you consider gondola rides as the main attraction but wander deeper into Venice into the residential areas and it is steeped in Italian culture.


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## Hockey13

cuchuflete said:


> Hockey has been studying the aphorisms of Yogi Berra, such as, "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."


 


Well I brought up Venice because it's the only city I can think of that has that kind of economy. Places like New York and Tokyo have production and other non-tourism-related industry.


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## tvdxer

I think tourism is generally a good thing.  I live in a city (well, next to a city) for whom tourism is one of the main contributors to the economy.

Sure, there are bad cases...one that comes to mind are tourists spreading / supporting immorality like prostitution, drugs, fornication, etc.

But generally speaking, most of the time they present a small inconvenience, if any at all, pump plenty of money into the local economy, and can make a place more interesting.  It's also interesting to see distant license plates and (if you live in a place that attracts foreign tourists) hear new tongues.


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## Hockey13

tvdxer said:


> Sure, there are bad cases...one that comes to mind are tourists spreading / supporting *immorality like* prostitution,* drugs, fornication*, etc.


 
I can see how tourists might slightly support prostitution, drugs, and "fornication," but are you implying that those things are caused by tourists? The only correlation I can see is that there are more people, so more people will be having sex.


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## cuchuflete

I'd be interested to learn how tourists spread fornication.  Who counts the number of incidents of fornication to create a baseline measure?  Who tracks the tourists, and determines how often they fornicate, and how and how often they spread and support fornication?  

It sounds like there are fornication watchers.  Are they a tourist attraction?


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## .   1

cuchuflete said:


> I'd be interested to learn how tourists spread fornication. Who counts the number of incidents of fornication to create a baseline measure? Who tracks the tourists, and determines how often they fornicate, and how and how often they spread and support fornication?
> 
> It sounds like there are fornication watchers. Are they a tourist attraction?


I am theoretically fascinated by the theoretical sex life of people who are constantly fascinated by the actual sex life of strangers.

Robert


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## DickHavana

cuchuflete said:


> I'd be interested to learn how tourists spread fornication.  Who counts the number of incidents of fornication to create a baseline measure?  Who tracks the tourists, and determines how often they fornicate, and how and how often they spread and support fornication?
> 
> It sounds like there are fornication watchers.  Are they a tourist attraction?





But really, we all know that there is an important sexual tourism (to Thailand, Philippines, Cuba, etc). In South East Asia, principally, this sexual tourism is particularly degrading: underage prostitution, etc. Massive and uncontroled tourism in some poor zones is promoting massive and uncontroled prostitution  (there are a lot of factors in all this, I know, but I think that it's impossible not to talk about this).


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## Etcetera

I didn't vote, because I simply can't understand the question.
We in St. Petersburg love tourists. Yes, they bring a lot of money to the city, but it's not what matters most (for me, at least). It's always pleasant to hear someone's admiring you native city. 
Tourism may have its "dark sides", but, frankly speaking, so far it's tourists who suffer more - from robberies, for instance. But robberies happen relatively rarely.


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## maxiogee

tvdxer said:


> Sure, there are bad cases...one that comes to mind are tourists spreading / supporting immorality like prostitution, drugs, fornication, etc.


 
Thank you, tvd, for supplying me with an etymology for the common phrase muttered in many countries - f*ck*ng tourists!

I think you may also have given me a new understanding of the concept of scr*w*ng the tourists. 

This site is indeed all about language, isn't it?


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## tvdxer

DickHavana said:


> But really, we all know that there is an important sexual tourism (to Thailand, Philippines, Cuba, etc). In South East Asia, principally, this sexual tourism is particularly degrading: underage prostitution, etc. Massive and uncontroled tourism in some poor zones is promoting massive and uncontroled prostitution  (there are a lot of factors in all this, I know, but I think that it's impossible not to talk about this).



That's what I was thinking of, actually.

I was thinking that tourists have an effect on a visited area's culture if they come in great enough numbers.  If they come from permissive cultures into an area with a conservative culture, the area may become more permissive.


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## Hockey13

tvdxer said:


> That's what I was thinking of, actually.
> 
> I was thinking that tourists have an effect on a visited area's culture if they come in great enough numbers. If they come from permissive cultures into an area with *a conservative culture*, the area *may become more permissive*.


 
In many cases, I personally don't think that's such a horrible thing. A conservative culture might do well to benefit from the liberal advances in society. A free-acting place might also end up being more free-thinking. Just my opinion.


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## don maico

I refuse to vote on this one because on the one hand I can see the positives and on the other I can only see the negatives.
Cornwall one of England's prime tourist resorts with an absolutely breathtaking coast line with lovely fishing villages  . Its also Englands poorest county which would be decinmated without the tourism.Of that there is no doubt
Spain Portugal and Greece likewise depend hugely on tourism.BUT , what were once beautiful small towns and villages, have been wrecked by BAD planning, awful buildings and the yearly pilgramage of sunworshippers.Your typical tourist resort is a sham, is phoney, is plastic and is fillled with people from everywhere(it would seem) but there is in no way any sense of community. The locals keep their heads down and only arise to take your money. The bars are filled with each respective nationality 
therefore one has  Dutch bars, Irish bars and English pubs etc. the latter  are not real pubs but drinking dens serving lager to the lager louts who in turn get drunk get loud ,puke up and fornicate wherever and whenever.The restaurants serve some weird gunk called continental cooking  which bears no relation to the country ones in. Then there is the hotel or the apartment block which has a bar which is smoked filled and on each chair sits a drunken northener(English) singing kareoke
The beaches are a nightmare, every inch taken by a heaving mass of flesh. Narcisists  parade up and down thinking everyone is admiring their bodies -(I think not buster!)What is the fun lying on sand surrounded by themI ask myself.
Never again I vowed would I venture to such places because they are false and filled with people who barely even acknowledge you. Ok we may not undersatnd each others language but a smile is universal.
Last beach holiday I went to was in Cuba. I spent 4 days in Havana and loved it , wonderful music , great colonial bulidings and the people were soo friendly. then the graeat mistake Varadero beach. Ok the hotels were good, the beaches nice but it just wasnt Cuba anymore. The music was this awful machine stuff that pumps out of clubs accoss Europe and the food was disgusting. Only the barman broke my misery with his cheery  conversation.
Nope, tourists resorts are not an option for me .I need to be in REAL places  where the dominant language is the local one where the grub wasnt concocted in some factory in central Europe and which breathes the essence of hundreds of years of history or which has a serenity and a peace and a beauty and the only sound is the one associated with wildlife or running water.
Resorts need to be much more sympathetically planned built retaining the very essence of where they are situated. The food should be local and not pander to outside culinary vices :"fish and chips, sir? No we make paellas here sir"They should have rules restricting the kind of visitors they get. No drunken louts disrespecting all and sundry( before I go any further i have been there, done it, and got the t shirt - but NO longer)or soccer hooligans who insist on  throwing cans and bottles at anyone who has the audacity of not being British.


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## ElaineG

I was privileged enough to spend a lot of time on the Aeolian Islands when I lived in Sicily. The Islands, one of the most beautiful places on earth, were enormously depopulated by the 1960s, after widespread emigration to America, Australia and the rest of Italy. 

The advent of fast ferries and hydrofoils brought a lot of summer tourists to their shores. 

Yes, as in all of Italy, abusive development threatens the islands' beauty and ecology. That's the downside -- but it could be cured by planning and enforcement of planning.

The plus side is that my friends there -- people in their 20s and 30s who would have had to leave their homes to find work if it were not for tourism -- live, work and prosper on their beloved islands, as do many others. 

They actually look forward to the summer -- they love meeting people from other parts of the world, and the festive atmosphere that ensues. More than one of my friends there has told me that the winters are "brutto" -- cold, dark, and boring -- with the bars and restaurants closed -- and only the other islanders to talk to. Having spent the better part of one winter on Lipari, I have to agree. When summer comes, in stead of being cut-off islanders, they are at the center of a cosmopolitan playground -- getting to practice their languages, rub elbows with the wider world and, yes, TvDexer, benefitting from the improved social and sexual landscape  .

As Cuchu mentioned, tourism brings in more than just more garbage and a few STDs.  Stromboli, which has a year-round population of around 500 (5,000 people lived there before mass emigration in the 30s, 40s, and 50s), has a lovely _bookstore_, something many larger places don't.  The owner once told me she makes 90% of her income in July and August -- which enables her to keep the store, which is also a gathering place for locals and assorted cats, open year round.  You can't argue with that, it seems to me.


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## Alxmrphi

I thought Lipari was a thriving place when I went, maybe moreso than Vulcano, I certainly didn't get the impression the tourist ferries bothered anybody.

What planning and controls do you suggest Elaine, what sort of ideas would help steady the abusive development?


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## Hockey13

Alex_Murphy said:


> I thought Lipari was a thriving place when I went, maybe moreso than Vulcano, I certainly didn't get the impression the tourist ferries bothered anybody.
> 
> What planning and controls do you suggest Elaine, what sort of ideas would help steady the abusive development?


 
Perhaps zoning laws like they have in Germany. Many Libertarians I know (and I am one myself, but more socially than economically, even though I am an economist  ) would pull their hair out over the German system, but it seems to preserve the beautiful countryside of (at least) Baden-Württemberg. It pretty much just restricts housing where historically there have been farms, while towns and villages remain relatively small in size.


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## ElaineG

> What planning and controls do you suggest Elaine, what sort of ideas would help steady the abusive development?


 
A great place for the Aeolians (and all of Italy?) to start would be enforcing the laws that are on the books. You are supposed to get planning permission, to ensure that your structure is not hideously inappropriate, that it doesn't overburden the resources -- the islands have a huge problem with water for example, and that it doesn't destroy the character of what is a proposed Unesco World Heritage Site.

But everyone builds without permission -- something like 4 abusive hotels and 50 abusive houses were put up in the one winter I was on the island (my ex-boyfriend's father works construction , so I got to visit some of those abusive construction sites).  Concrete monstrosities thrown up on the side of a hill without regard for erosion, water, the view, Roman/Greek antiquities under ground, etc.   

Then, some political party or other declares a general "condono" (more or less a pardon) and instead of making the wrongdoers tear it down, they get away scotfree.  

Short term political benefit, long term costs -- the ruined Costa Brava is just one example of what happens when development lacks controls.


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## Hockey13

Well-said, Elaine. It's too bad I might be unable to see it as it was.


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## maxiogee

ElaineG said:


> Something like 4 abusive hotels and 50 abusive houses were put up in the one winter I was on the island



Are we back to tourists and sex again  
 

But seriously - indeed.
The planning laws are notoriously flexible in many parts of Italy. Spain is rumoured to be cracking down on its illegal developments, demanding offending homes (I don't think they've looked at hotels yet) be demoloished - but I imagine that someone will appeal to the EU courts and try to wheedle their way out of compliance.


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## DickHavana

Marbella-Costa del Sol: Tourism "de-luxe" (All your money is well received).

Speculation, environmental disasters, ilegal construction permissions, massive corruption (the last 3 or 4 mayors (alcaldes) of the city and part of the town councillors (concejales) are prosecuted and passed by prison), mafias, crime, high-delinquency refugee (high-scale drug dealers, weapon dealers (Kashoggi), Arabian mafias, Russian mafias, British delinquents, etc.), expensive prices, prostitution de-luxe (only VISA, please).........................


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## Hockey13

DickHavana said:


> Marbella-Costa del Sol: Tourism "de-luxe" (All your money is well received).
> 
> Speculation, environmental disasters, ilegal construction permissions, massive corruption (the last 3 or 4 mayors (alcaldes) of the city and part of the town councillors (concejales) are prosecuted and passed by prison), mafias, crime, high-delinquency refugee (high-scale drug dealers, weapon dealers (Kashoggi), Arabian mafias, Russian mafias, British delinquents, etc.), expensive prices, prostitution de-luxe (only VISA, please).........................


 
This sounds like xenophobic rubbish. I admit there are problems in places that are exposed to the vast amounts of money that tourists bring, but to imply that corruption, prostitution, crime, and speculation either didn't exist or were significantly less prior to tourism is flat-out wrong, in my opinion. High-delinquency refugees? What do you mean by this? People fleeing a horrible situation might not have had as nice of an upbringing as you had.

Honestly, as liberal as many Europeans seem to be sometimes, comments like these make me take criticisms of US culture with a grain of salt. We might have immigration troubles, but at least we've more or less gotten on with it for more than a century now and refined it to the point where most educated people understand the important cultural influences that immigrants have on our culture. We all have issues that need to be dealt with, and stemming globalization is not the answer.

But I would never do such a horrendous thing as to generalize Europe, especially since I am a German citizen, and thoroughly in awe of both the American cultures and the many cultures of Europe.


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## don maico

My tirade was aimed a particualr type of holiday destination and a particulor type of tourist. I realise ,though, that the major part of the industry is very positive as it helps to maintain areas of particular interest historical or otherwise . Museums, art galleries ,magnificent houses, medieval castles old towns and villages , lovingly preserved ,all benefit from the contribution tourism makes. Europe rightly boasts fantastically beautiful coast lines. Marvelous cities  such as Florence, Paris, London and Barcelona are unequalled the world over.  Rolling hills and imposing mountain ranges, deep forests and meandering rivers ,all contribute to make ones hoilday a very pleasant experience.I particularly like "niche type' holidays like staying at a French gite or English farmhouse, horserding on the Sierra Neveda( Spain) , canal boating or walkng the Penine Hills in England. Fabulous even when there is cloud cover .Just as long as I am kept away from  oiks and yobs - the lowlife breed who bring shame on my country wherever they go.


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## DickHavana

Hockey13 said:


> This sounds like xenophobic rubbish.



It's not xenophobic. It's a reality. In my town (North of Spain), near 10% population is inmigrant (from Morocco, Algeria, Ecuador, Colombia...) and I haven't any problem with this. Some of my friends are inmigrants. People here have no problems with the inmigrants.

In Costa del Sol, uncontrolated tourism and urbanistic corruption (and the no -application of the law) attracted a lot of people without scrupules (people from Spain and people from all the world). You can look for information about Marbella and you will see that all I relate is real.

But, my words are xenophobic because I speak about "all-the-world mafias"? That seems like an stupidity


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## xarruc

I think it is important to separate migration and tourism in this discussion.

The "mafiosas" and the "English (etc.) enclaves" on the Costa del Crime are migration not tourism.


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## DickHavana

xarruc said:


> I think it is important to separate migration and tourism in this discussion.
> 
> The "mafiosas" and the "English (etc.) enclaves" on the costa del sol are migration not tourism.



Yes, xarruc, of course. I distinguish perfectly between "mafias" and "British (or German, or French...)  enclaves". I related only about Marbella. There are a lot of comunnities in all the coast with European touristic inmigration and without problems.

But I think that European enclaves at the Mediterranean Coast (or in the Canary Islands) are usually *touristic inmigration*: Spanish sun, Spanish beaches, etc. A lot of that people come here seduced by the touristic attractives and the Spanish more-low-coast-of-live. I know that there are a lot of pensionists that come here looking for a good climate (because medical problems), but they don't go to Extremadura or to the inner Andalucia,for example.

I don't think that tourism is intrinsicly bad (or intrinsicly good). I think that tourism have good and bad things, more if we talk about the *massive tourism*. I simply sketched some ideas in my bad English.

Un saludo


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## maxiogee

DickHavana said:


> Marbella-Costa del Sol: Tourism "de-luxe" (All your money is well received).
> 
> Speculation, environmental disasters, ilegal construction permissions, massive corruption (the last 3 or 4 mayors (alcaldes) of the city and part of the town councillors (concejales) are prosecuted and passed by prison), mafias, crime, high-delinquency refugee (high-scale drug dealers, weapon dealers (Kashoggi), Arabian mafias, Russian mafias, British delinquents, etc.), expensive prices, prostitution de-luxe (only VISA, please).........................


 
Are any of these people 'tourists'?
It seems to me like you are complaining about what you fellow-citizens are doing to promote tourism and to protect the flow of tourists' money. 
I doubt that Adnan Khashoggi has ever been a tourist. And I doubt too that any tourists can afford prostitution de-luxe.


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## DickHavana

Not, of course, maxiogee. But the development and growth of Marbella was stimulated by the tourism. 

I said only what kind of things can happen when you promote a ruthless touristic growth without scrupules. Marbella and Benidorm were emblematic cities in the development of the Spanish tourism based in "Sun and beach" and I only explained how is Marbella now. Spain has a serious problem because during a lot of years promoved a tourism without respect the laws and environmental, and now there is an important problem of speculation, corruption and refugee of the "great mafias". You can see it all the days in the Spanish newspapers.


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## Qcumber

. said:


> I am theoretically fascinated by the theoretical sex life of people who are constantly fascinated by the actual sex life of strangers. Robert


They must exist sex enquirers.  I met once a Puritan woman in Bangkok who spent her days in the hotel lobby to count the number of tourists coming back with a "companion" and even taking when the times in and out to reckon the average time they spent together, etc. She was definitely against sex with the natives. I thought she must have been born when Queen Victoria was Imp. Ind. and teleported through time and space to land where people enjoyed themselves and spoil their fun.


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## don maico

Qcumber said:


> They must exist sex enquirers.  I met once a Puritan woman in Bangkok who spent her days in the hotel lobby to count the number of tourists coming back with a "companion" and even taking when the times in and out to reckon the average time they spent together, etc. She was definitely against sex with the natives. I thought she must have been born when Queen Victoria was Imp. Ind. and teleported through time and space to land where people enjoyed themselves and spoil their fun.


A prurient interest in other peoples' sex lives


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## maxiogee

Possibly not.
The woman might well have been from one of the anti-sex-tourism organisations which fight against the under-age nature of much of the activity which comprises the sex industry in the region. She could well have been compiling the data these organisations need and use to further their cause.


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## cuchuflete

Nice to know there are tourist destinations for those who would experience pleasures of the flesh vicariously.
No more harmful than birdwatching, is it?  Even the repressed are entitled to a stimulating vacation.


Are you a prurient prude?  Come visit our beautiful tropical paradise
and count the fornicators.
Special Family Packages available.
"Repent!" signs provided, along with air conditioned rooms and full breakfast. 
​


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## don maico

maxiogee said:


> Possibly not.
> The woman might well have been from one of the anti-sex-tourism organisations which fight against the under-age nature of much of the activity which comprises the sex industry in the region. She could well have been compiling the data these organisations need and use to further their cause.



I was being facetious


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## Cache

Tourism is one of the greatest activities human begin do! Tourism is expanding around the world and so  are many economies which their only attraction is tourism. It is also important the cultural aspect of tourism, sharing the countries' cultures with the rest of the world.

In Argentina, tourism is a positive activity for showing people with other customs how your country is. Lots of Brazilian people and others from neighbouring countries are coming to Argentina since they are interested in our culture, marvellous landscapes in the north and south and so on. We also receive lots of Americans who take advantage to learn Spanish in less time . As you see, tourism is sharing our culture with many countries, and even with far away such as USA, France, Germany, Japan, etcetera.


Tourism is also helping under-development country to grow offering the natural beauty of their landscapes and people's customs, which vary from country to country. In Argentina what attracts many tourists is the Tango. It is an energetic dance whose best singer was, without a doubt, Carlos Gardel. In addition, Argentina has many well-known players around the world and a great passion for football, the most played in the world. Another favourable effect of tourism is the economic one which makes countries with attractions, but not developed, improved.

In summary, Tourism is a beneficial activity, especially for those cultures which may not be economically developed or are willing to show their  customs all the world.

Regards!

PS:Correct my English


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## TRG

xarruc said:


> "Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot them?"


 
I hope everyone here understood that this is just a pun. Who knows what was in the mind of the author. Could there be a more annoying group of people than tourists? I don't think so.


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## Qcumber

maxiogee said:


> Possibly not.
> The woman might well have been from one of the anti-sex-tourism organisations which fight against the under-age nature of much of the activity which comprises the sex industry in the region. She could well have been compiling the data these organisations need and use to further their cause.


I never saw that witch of a Western woman give any money to any sex-industry worker, nor talk to them. It is well-known these Puritan organizations are set up to legally blackmail Western tourists back home in order to extort money and, sometimes, political influence. Besides, why should the laws of Ireland, for instance, be applied to any other country?
The next time I fly there, I'll buy a purge and pour it into her tea.


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## maxiogee

Qcumber said:


> It is well-known



Then there's no point in discussing it.


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