# Pronunciation: ate (past of 'eat')



## MrMagoo

I've seen in some of my dictionaries, beside [eit], a second possible pronunciation is given: *[et]*.

Can anybody tell me if this pronunciation is used, and in case it is, where?
Is it a dialect variant or used in poetical style - or just an archaic form?! 
I for myself have just learned [eit] as I can remember.

Thanks for your help!
-MrMagoo

I almost forgot:

According to some dictionaries, "ate" can be spelled *eat*, as well - again the same question: 
Are these forms still used and if so, when?!
Thanks again!
-MrMagoo


----------



## elroy

MrMagoo said:
			
		

> I almost forgot:
> 
> According to some dictionaries, "ate" can be spelled *eat*, as well - again the same question:
> Are these forms still used and if so, when?!
> Thanks again!
> -MrMagoo



I have NEVER seen "ate" spelled "eat."  I would be positively shocked to find out this was allowed.

As for the pronunciation, I know that "et" is substandard in the United States.  It is dialectical but not standard English (again, as far as I know).



			
				Benjy said:
			
		

> it's always nice to know that one's english pronunciation is substandard



Do you pronounce "eat" "/et/"?

I'm sorry.  I was referring to the United States (which I should have clarified, of course); I don't think anybody in the US pronounces it "et" in any type of formal register.  Furthermore, I did state "as far as I know" at the end.

[I will edit my post and add "in the United States"]


----------



## Benjy

Depends.  Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  But I am really not a very good case study as my English was at one point very americanised and is only now beginning to recover (I have lived all over the place)


----------



## Amityville

I don't say 'et', I think it's a southern and/or 'posh' thing.


----------



## MrMagoo

elroy said:
			
		

> I have NEVER seen "ate" spelled "eat." I would be positively shocked to find out this was allowed.
> 
> As for the pronunciation, I know that "et" is substandard in the United States. It is dialectical but not standard English (again, as far as I know).


 

Here's what A.S. Hornby's "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English" says:






Best wishes
-MrMagoo

P.S.: Why would you be _positively_ shocked?!


----------



## elroy

MrMagoo said:
			
		

> Here's what A.S. Hornby's "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English" says:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes
> -MrMagoo
> 
> P.S.: Why would you be _positively_ shocked?!



Well, that's very interesting.  It does say "very rarely," though.  In any case, I'd be very interested in knowing what those rare cases are in which it would be acceptable to use "eat" as the past tense of the verb "eat."

"Positively" in this case is an intensifier.  It means "definitely" or "extremely."  Look at the first definition under the second entry here.


----------



## garryknight

Amityville said:
			
		

> I don't say 'et', I think it's a southern and/or 'posh' thing.


I thought it was more of a northern thing!


----------



## gaer

MrMagoo said:
			
		

> Here's what A.S. Hornby's "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English" says:
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/MrMagoo/eat2.jpg
> 
> Best wishes
> -MrMagoo
> 
> P.S.: Why would you be _positively_ shocked?!


I would be equally shocked. I can't imagine using "eat" for past tense.

I also would say that using "et", in the US, is not a good thing. 

Gaer


----------



## Wordsmyth

garryknight said:
			
		

> Amityville said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't say 'et', I think it's a southern and/or 'posh' thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was more of a northern thing!  [...]
Click to expand...

Quick poll among two southerners and three northerners (but further north than Dudley - alroight, ower kid?):

One southerner : 'eit'
One southerner + three northerners : 'et'
Oh, plus me : I say both, depending (unconsciously) on who I'm talking to.

And in West Yorkshire, there's even "etten" (or rather "et'n"). Last verse of "On Ilkley Moor baht 'at" : "Then we shall all 'ave et'n thee".

I guess that's confused all those west of the Atlantic!!   

W


----------



## panjandrum

I come late to this thread.
So what's all this hassle about et?
There are whole areas of the country where "Yetit" is a recognised answer to "Where's my banana".
And indeed where skinny, undernourished supermodels would routinely be referred to as "warmettin".
I, of course, have been standardised; the culchie's binbaytoutame


----------



## te gato

Sorry all..
I would never say ET....'I et it all'... 

'Did you eat my chocolate?'
'Yes, I ate it yesterday'
'Shame on you!!!'

tg


----------



## mylam

"You et it" is something my grandmother would say. Along with "It's real purty" and "I seen it".    She's from Michigan (northern US). But for some reason I associate "et" with uneducated southerners (again, US).


----------



## irishstu

I say /et/.

Occasionally, VERY occasionally, I'll pronounce it like "8" when I'm teaching English, but only because they like American English over here (Taiwan).

(By the way, that's "8" with an American accent. With a Northern Irish accent, it sounds like "ee-it"  )


----------



## ojyram

I believe that et is used is rather backwoods areas where people may have little "booklearnin."  To be used correctly, it probablly should be coupled with several contractions such as ain't or mor'en
Wife:  Did you eat?
Husband:  Nah, I ain't et nothin' mor'en a cuppa coffee since sunup, woman.


----------



## irishstu

Emmm, I hope you're speaking on behalf of the United States only.


----------



## gaer

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> Amityville's last comments made me listen again (this could become obsessive!), and yes, I missed it first time round, but 'couple' and 'brother' are definitely not southern.
> 
> I guess 'classless' could also depend on what time of day Benjy was eating his _*dinner *_!!
> 
> W


New info for a thread that seems to have wandered and died.

My wife and I were listening to a recording of "Inkheart", narrated by Lynn Redgrave. She very definitely said "et", not "ate", and it was during narration, not a dialect. Considering the fact that she has a wonderful voice to listen to, I have to conclude that "et" is perfectly fine in BE.  

Gaer


----------



## jess oh seven

in some parts of Britain it's pronounced "et", but normally it's homophonic with the number "8"


----------



## allwords

[et] pronunciation is used in the south of U.S.A., it´s "hillbilly talk".


----------



## gaer

jess oh seven said:
			
		

> in some parts of Britain it's pronounced "et", but normally it's homophonic with the number "8"


My only point was that I would be very surprised if someone labeled anything about Lynn Redgrave's speech as substandard. 

Gaer


----------



## dynamon76

Wordsmyth said:


> Quick poll among two southerners and three northerners (but further north than Dudley - alroight, ower kid?):
> 
> One southerner : 'eit'
> One southerner + three northerners : 'et'
> Oh, plus me : I say both, depending (unconsciously) on who I'm talking to.
> 
> And in West Yorkshire, there's even "etten" (or rather "et'n"). Last verse of "On Ilkley Moor baht 'at" : "Then we shall all 'ave et'n thee".
> 
> I guess that's confused all those west of the Atlantic!!
> 
> W


 One southwesterner - Bournemouth : 'et'


----------



## dynamon76

MrMagoo said:


> I've seen in some of my dictionaries, beside [eit], a second possible pronunciation is given: *[et]*.
> 
> Can anybody tell me if this pronunciation is used, and in case it is, where?
> Is it a dialect variant or used in poetical style - or just an archaic form?!
> I for myself have just learned [eit] as I can remember.
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> -MrMagoo


 
For most of my life I thought that the pronunciation "et" was the only version and that there was no alternative! However, it seems it is a dialect variant.  My upbringing was mostly in SouthWest England and I have used it since then. Being older and perhaps wiser I now realise there are different versions 

 In poetry the spelling cannot be changed and is always "ate" with the speaker using the verbal  pronunciation he or she is used to.


----------



## panjandrum

dynamon76 said:


> ...
> 
> In poetry the spelling cannot be changed and is always "ate" with the speaker using the verbal  pronunciation he or she is used to.


I wonder why you suggest that spelling in poetry cannot be unconventional?


----------



## Brioche

MrMagoo said:


> I've seen in some of my dictionaries, beside [eit], a second possible pronunciation is given: *[et]*.
> 
> Can anybody tell me if this pronunciation is used, and in case it is, where?
> Is it a dialect variant or used in poetical style - or just an archaic form?!
> I for myself have just learned [eit] as I can remember.
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> -MrMagoo



/et/ is the traditional Received Pronunciation of *ate*. /eɪt/ was a secondary pronunciation. 

Under the "speak as you spell" movement, it has become less common.

50 or so years ago, pronouncing the t in _often_ would have raised eyebrows in polite society. Now it is very common.

There are many similar examples.


----------



## Brioche

allwords said:


> [et] pronunciation is used in the south of U.S.A., it´s "hillbilly talk".



It's funny how an upper-class English pronunciation can become despised "hillbilly talk".

Another example of the vagaries of fashion in language.  Some older English usages have been preserved in the US, and are not seen as relics, but aberrations.


----------



## entangledbank

Nineteenth-century editions of the poetic works of Edmund Spenser contain this gloss:

_Ate_, did eat.

Spenser lived in the 1500s anyway, but even in his time he was notable for using archaic and plain old made-up words. So all editions of Spenser need long glossaries at the back for obscure and puzzling words. It has always amazed me that 'ate' was ever included. Presumably the then-standard spelling was 'eat', pronounced [et]. (Whenever 'then' was: looking into this now, I suspect all editions simply pirated each other's glossaries.)


----------



## pickarooney

What is the difference between /et/ and /eɪt/ ? I can't hear it.
They both use a long 'e' whereas I understand from the rest of the thread that the vowel variously considered Northern/Western/Southern/Hillbilly is /ɛt/, is it not?


----------



## entangledbank

When I write [et] I mean the short vowel of DRESS. This can be written [e] or [ɛ]. When RP was first notated phonetically its DRESS vowel was midway between the cardinal vowels [e] and [ɛ]. Since then it has moved down to about cardinal [ɛ] in Southern England (in the modern equivalent of RP and near-RP), and the _OED_ third edition (2000 on) has reflected this by changing its notation.

In Americanist phonetic notation it is common to use [e] for the FACE vowel and [ɛ] for the DRESS vowel. FACE can be a pure vowel in AmE, though I believe it is more commonly a diphthong [eɪ] as in Southern England.

Other accents also use a pure vowel [e] or [e:] for FACE: Scottish and much Northern English, for example.


----------



## Novanas

For me the situation in the southern U.S. is summed up by the old joke about a school teacher questioning a young boy:

"Johnny, what did you have for breakfast this morning?"
"I et six pancakes."
"You mean "ate", don't you?"
"Well, maybe it was eight I et."

In other words, "et" was something school teachers didn't want people to say, but some of them said it nonetheless.


----------



## e2efour

From Wikipedia:
"According to the second (2000) edition of Wells's Longman Dictionary of Pronuncation, a 1988  opinion poll of British speakers showed that of those born before 1923,  less than 30% pronounced _ate_ "eight"; of those born between 1923  and 1962, a little more than 40% said "eight", and of those born since  1962, around 65% said "eight".
The pronunciation et (as in wet) was the recommended one for learners of English.

There has been a third edition (2008), but I don't know what this says.


----------



## dynamon76

In response to e2efour

As a native UK English speaker, and after reading the percentages, I will certainly be happy to stick with the pronounciation "et" as the past tense of "ate"

So, thank you very much for your well presented explanation


----------



## natkretep

I say 'ett' and was taught to say et in school in Kuala Lumpur. I think my children say 'eight', so I think it is partly a generational thing. Thanks also to e2efour for the statistics: I was actually born in 1962, and it looks as if I'm in the minority camp. Maybe it's the 'colonial lag', as they say!


----------



## mmarkich

Does anyone know for sure how the archaic use of "eat" in place of "ate" is pronounced? Is it pronounced indentically to the present tense, or is there some difference? Thank you.


----------



## boozer

e2efour said:


> The pronunciation et (as in wet) was the recommended one for learners of English..


In my time it was mentioned but the recommendation was not to use it. I'm pretty sure these days they do not even mention it as a legitimate past tense form of "eat".


----------



## Loob

mmarkich said:


> Does anyone know for sure how the archaic use of "eat" in place of "ate" is pronounced? Is it pronounced indentically to the present tense, or is there some difference? Thank you.


Hello, mmarkich, and welcome to the forums!

I'm afraid I don't know. 

All I can say is that the OED, in listing two past tenses for the verb (_ate, eat)_ offers three pronunciations, with the vowel sounds of_ mate, met and meet._

Which may imply that past tense _eat_ was pronounced like present tense _eat_. Against this, there's the evidence of etb's post 25 above.

If I find anything more conclusive, I'll come back


----------



## natkretep

Just to add that the British Library has released some data about changing pronunciations in British English, and this has been covered in the media, as for example in this BBC article, and it does mention _ate_:



> However, the link between class, voice and status is not what it once was. Many of us are barely aware of how we say _says _or _ate _or what was once considered the right and proper way.


----------



## Allegro molto

Hello

As /et/, the phonetic symbol for 'ate', precedes /eit/ in Macmillan English dictionary, I gather that the pronunciation /et/ is more popular than /eit/. Is it so? Or are the two pronunciations even? 

Thank you


----------



## DocPenfro

I am sure that there will be regional differences of opinion on this matter, but the general feeling in BE is that /et/ is a rather uneducated and slovenly pronunciation, and that people of good breeding should say /eit/.  In reality, I think you are more likely to hear /et/ wherever you go.


----------



## JulianStuart

There are indeed variations - as discussed in this thread, one of several on the issue of the pronunciation of ate from the search box.  The prevalence of one over the other is regional.


----------



## Elwintee

An earlier post referred to 'et' as the posh and older-generation pronunciation.  I bet you that is the way Her Majesty the Queen pronounces it.  And of course she speaks the queen's English.


----------



## Wordsmyth

DocPenfro said:


> _[...]_ but the general feeling in BE is that */et/ is a rather uneducated and slovenly* pronunciation, and that *people of good breeding should say /eit/*_. [...]_


 

In my experience, Doc, it's just the opposite. Most RP and near-RP speakers I've met (as well as many regional speakers "of good breeding" ) say */et/*.
Other posts above suggest the same; (forgive the multiple quotes, but I needed to pull out the BE speakers) : 





Elwintee said:


> An earlier post referred to *'et'* as the *posh* and older-generation pronunciation.  _[...]_





Brioche said:


> */et/* is the traditional *Received Pronunciation* of ate. /eɪt/ was a secondary pronunciation. _[...]_





Amityville said:


> I don't say *'et'*, I think it's a *southern* and/or *'posh'* thing.


 It seems that people's perceptions of a north/south split also vary: 





garryknight said:


> I thought it was more of a *northern* thing!





dynamon76 said:


> One *southwesterner* - Bournemouth : *'et*'





dynamon76 said:


> For most of my life I thought that the pronunciation *"et"* was the only version and that there was no alternative! However, it seems it is a dialect variant.  My upbringing was mostly in *SouthWest England*_ [...] _



But there's another possible driver of the use of */et/*, both regionally and in RP. In many regions of England (north and south), the leading 'h' is dropped (even by "educated" people ), so "ate" pronounced as /eit/ could be confused with "hate". "I /eit/ bananas" >> "I (h)ate bananas". Ah, you might say, but regional usage doesn't usually influence standard pronunciation. However, the dropped 'h' was also very fashionable amongst 'posh' speakers of the Victorian era and in the first part of the 20th century, and they did strongly influence standard English.

In the US and Canada the 'h' is rarely if ever dropped, which (taken together with the North American preference for phonetic pronunciation) might explain the standard usage of /eit/ for "ate". 

In Ireland, Scotland and Wales (including "Little England beyond Wales", Doc?), dropping the 'h' is also rare, so maybe that affects the perception of /et/ vs /eit/ (?)

Ws


----------



## Keith Bradford

jess oh seven said:


> in some parts of Britain it's pronounced "et", but normally it's homophonic with the number "8"



I think in most parts of England it is frequently pronounced /et/. But we do have pedantic schoolteachers who try to persuade us to pronounce it as it's spelt - as if spelling has anything to do with it! I'd never say anything but /et/ and I'm not uneducated, I think.

Keith Bradford, M.A.


----------



## le Grand Soir

*Et* is not substandard English pronunciation.  I say it that way myself.


----------



## Pertinax

It has always been "et" for me (Cheshire, Lancashire), but "eight" for my children born in Australia.  They say that they have not heard "et" from anyone but me.


----------

