# Koleji'nde okuyorum.



## kenjoluma

> Uluslararası Türk Koleji'*n*de okuyorum.



In this sentence, I really do not understand "Koleji'*n*de'. Isn't it supposed to be "Kolejide'? Where did "-n-" come from? Does it mean "YOUR international Turkish School"? But in this context, it really does not make sense.

Maybe, "Uluslararası Türk Kolejiside" might be correct in my opinion. 

I'm confused. Somebody please help me.


----------



## Binapesi

No, that's the correct form of it. It's the *pronoun n* (zamir n'si).

If there comes a "*-de* or *-den*" noun state suffixes after the noun clauses (which apparently end with a vowel), then the "*fusion consonant*(?) -*n*" is put between the clause and the suffix. 

Ex: Evin kapısı*n*da, (onun) arabası*n*da, (onun) kıyafeti*n*de .. 
(ev:house, kapı: door, araba:car, kıyafetutfit)

Hope, it helps, though I couldn't explain it very well. Maybe someone else will give a better explanation.


----------



## kenjoluma

Thank you for your reply, Keyt.

One more question.



> Nerede oturuyorsunuz?



That means 'where are you living', right? But according to your explanation, it should be 'Nere*n*de oturuyorsunuz?'

Deeper and deeper to dark confusion...


----------



## Rallino

No, that *n* comes in, when you add a declension to an already declined word.

In Turkish, you can add a second declension to a word in genitive form, in which case, you squeeze an "n" in between.

*Türk Koleji 
*_Koleji _is the genitive form of "Kolej". Now you add the stative case "-de"

Which is:

Kolej + genitive + stative

2 declensions, thus we do:* Kolej + genitive + n + stative* = Koleji'nde


The same thing happens in the example that Keyt gave:

Evin kapısında

*kapısında *has 2 declensions: Kapı + genitive + stative. We put an "n" in between: kapı*sında

*In your example, however, there is only one declension: Stative. There is no genitive.


Nerede oturuyorsunuz?

Nere + stative


However, you could have said:

Seul'ün neresinde oturuyorsunuz? (lit. Where of Seoul are you living in?)

Here: Nere + genitive + n + stative



You add this *n, *not only for stative and ablative, but also for accusative and dative. (So long as the word is already in genitive form.)


----------



## kenjoluma

Rallino. Thank you so much for your enlightenment.
So, if there is more than one declension, I have to put -n- in between. Right?

Evinde = Ev + i + N + de = In his house
Evininde = Ev + in + iN + de = In your house
Evde = in a house

Do I understand this correctly?


----------



## Rallino

kenjoluma said:


> Rallino. Thank you so much for your enlightenment.
> So, if there is more than one declension, I have to put -n- in between. Right?
> 
> Evinde = Ev + i + N + de = In his house
> Evininde = Ev + in + iN + de = In your house
> Evde = in a house
> 
> Do I understand this correctly?



Almost! 

The possesive suffixes are:

Benim ....-im
Senin ....-in
*Onun .... -i ( Only this one is called genitive)*

Only the 3rd person singular is considered as genitive. The others are just possessives. So you add the extra "n" only in 3rd person.


Ev = house
Evi = his house (genitive)
Evinde = in his house 

Ev = house
Evin = your house (not a genitive)
Evinde = in your house

In Turkish, there are a few concepts where 2nd person singular and 3 person singular have exactly the same form. The context tells which one is meant.


----------



## kenjoluma

I will definitely need some more time to absorb what you kindly taught me. But thank you so much! Only in third person, in -de or -den declension. All right!


----------



## Luminista

Merhaba arkadaşlar,

Thank you for your explanations Rallino, it's not easy to understand that but it's very clear


----------



## yavuzotar

A good research paper on the "-n-" in relation to the third person genitive suffix is included in Professor Talat Tekin's "Altayistik -Makaleler 1-", pp.131-138, Grafiker Yayıncılık, Ankara, 2003. This affix is elided in Chagatay Turkish and later, in Uzbek Turkish, and also in New Uyghur Turkish.


----------



## er targyn

Why do you call 3rd person singular possessive a genitive? It isn't a genitive.


----------



## er targyn

yavuzotar said:


> This affix is elided in Chagatay Turkish and later, in Uzbek Turkish, and also in New Uyghur Turkish.


This is very unusual for Turkic.


----------



## Rallino

er targyn said:


> Why do you call 3rd person singular possessive a genitive? It isn't a genitive.



Isn't *the X's Y *a genitive form?


----------



## er targyn

Rallino said:


> Isn't *the X's Y *a genitive form?


All the *-im, -in, -i/-si* endings are *possessives *of the first, second and third person respectively.


----------



## seyif

er targyn said:


> All the *-im, -in, -i/-si* endings are *possessives *of the first, second and third person respectively.



Benim ev*im* my house
Senin ev*in*
Onun ev*i*

Benim toka*m* my hairpin
Senin toka*n* 
Onun toka*sı*

Here im,in,i/m, n, si are possesives. But even we use in Turkish without these endings. We can say "Senin kız nerede?/Where is your daughter?" instead of "Senin kızın nerede?/Where is your daughter?". Also we say "Kızın nerede?/Where is your daughter?"

I am a little bit confused with genitive;

Evi*n* fiyatı- price of the house or the price of the house?
Ev fiyatı- price of house or house price? If it is "price of house" where is the genitive case ending?


----------



## Rallino

er targyn said:


> All the *-im, -in, -i/-si* endings are *possessives *of the first, second and third person respectively.



What is a genitive then?

The student of the school
Der Student der Schule

Aren't these genitive? In Turkish, the 3rd person possessive is same as genitive.


----------



## BurakUeda

seyif said:


> I am a little bit confused with genitive;
> 
> Evi*n* fiyatı- price of the house or the price of the house?
> Ev fiyatı- price of house or house price? If it is "price of house" where is the genitive case ending?



"Evin fiyatı" has a secret _Özne_ in it "(*O*) ev*in* fiyatı"
Ev fiyatı can be translated as "Price of *a* house"


----------



## seyif

BurakUeda said:


> "Evin fiyatı" has a secret _Özne_ in it "(*O*) ev*in* fiyatı"




We say in Turkish "(Herhangi) Bir ev*in* fiyatından haberin var mı?" "Do you know how much costs a house?" Here "in"'s reason is not  "gizli özne".
I only try to make it more clear.


----------

