# One way borrowing between languages



## PersoLatin

As an example, as far as I know, there are no ancient Armenian words borrowed into Persian but the reverse is true.

This example may prove to be inaccurate, so are there cases where borrowings were one-way between two languages which for centuries existed side by side and if so, what can the reasons be, etymological, political or social?


----------



## Abaye

In Hebrew we borrowed a lot from Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian, Greek, Persian, Turkish. I don't think any of these languages significantly borrowed words from Hebrew (in the time of the one-way borrowing, some of them did later). I believe it's a matter of relative strength measured by any of prestige, military, economic, social, political power or alike. For example, Sumerian was strong enough to radiate words toward Hebrew (sometimes through Akkadian/Aramaic), but the Israelites were too far away and  too unimportant to influence in the opposite direction.


----------



## Awwal12

It seems unidirectional loans are usually loans from the language of high culture or from the local lingua franca (which easily may be one and the same). Considering the relationship between Russian and Mordvinic languages, for instance, the latter (and especially Erzya) are overfilled with loans from Russian, while in standard Russian there's apparently only one loanword from these languages - purgá (snowstorm; looks like a popular word to loan, cf. also burán from a Turkic source). There may be more in bordering dialects, though. The thing is that, like with Armenian vs. Persian, the total area and the number of speakers of Russian are (and, basically, always were) much larger.


----------



## pollohispanizado

Awwal12 said:


> It seems unidirectional loans are usually loans from the language of high culture or from the local lingua franca


Exactly. English received a huge amount of loans from Norman in the middle ages; now in Canada, where the dominant culture is anglophone, Canadian French in some dialects is almost purely English words with French syntax. Quebec has very strict linguistic laws specifically to avoid as many English words in their language as possible because they fear the assimilation of their people to the Anglo culture. This would certainly not work the other way around, with the number of Anglos who speak French is almost nothing versus the Francos who speak English; and the few loans in Canadian English from Canadian French are pretty much all food- (_poutine_ being a main one) or winter-related (_toque_ comes to mind).


----------



## Penyafort

Loanwords from Catalan into Spanish were relatively common until the 15th century. From the 16th century onwards, it's rather been the other way round.


----------



## Dymn

Maybe one counterexample to the strong vs. weak tendency is Greek and Latin. Greek loaned lots of words into Latin, but Greek borrowed surprisingly few words from Latin, or that is my impression, considering both were important languages of the Roman Empire.


----------



## pollohispanizado

Dymn said:


> Maybe one counterexample to the strong vs. weak tendency is Greek and Latin. Greek loaned lots of words into Latin, but Greek borrowed surprisingly few words from Latin, or that is my impression, considering both were important languages of the Roman Empire.


They were both important, but the importance of the Greek language preceded that of Latin, and the Greek culture was the dominate culture of the region way before Romulus and Remus even existed. Even after Rome expanded, they still revered the Greek language and culture.


----------



## Abaye

pollohispanizado said:


> They were both important, but the importance of the Greek language preceded that of Latin, and the Greek culture was the dominate culture of the region way before Romulus and Remus even existed. Even after Rome expanded, they still revered the Greek language and culture.


I think that Romulus is dated to mid 8th century, and so is the transition from the "dark ages" to "archaic age" of Greece. So maybe it's too early for dominance. Later, of course, the Greek culture was far beyond anything Romans could invent.


----------



## PersoLatin

I find over 95% of English words of Greek origin have come directly through Latin (and directly from Greek in the first place), and the rest have come through other languages into Latin and then into English, I can not quote any direct borrowings from Greek. This group of words are almost all of IE background. Latin has also brought many borrowings from other languages into English.

The relationship between Greek & Persian in that respect is intriguing, there doesn't seem to be many direct borrowings from either language into one another considering the length of time there was contact, albeit of conflict, political brinksmanship  etc. which was the only way to start such contacts in ancient times.


----------



## Abaye

PersoLatin said:


> The relationship between Greek & Persian in that respect is intriguing, there doesn't seem to be many direct borrowings from either language into one another considering the length of time there was contact, albeit of conflict, political brinksmanship  etc. which was the only way to start such contacts in ancient times.


It would be *magical* if Greek had no Persian words. Satrap, paradise, etc.


----------



## Perseas

Abaye said:


> It would be *magical* if Greek had no Persian words. Satrap, paradise, etc.


There are also many that came to Greek through Turkish like dard, darbedar, araabe etc.


----------



## PersoLatin

Abaye said:


> It would be *magical* if Greek had no Persian words. Satrap, paradise, etc.


That's three, if 'paradise' is a direct borrowing, but thanks for the 'etc.'



Perseas said:


> There are also many that came to Greek through Turkish like dard, darbedar, araabe etc.


These are much more modern, if they came through Turkish.


----------



## Sobakus

Greek documents from Roman Africa and Palestine are replete with Latin loans relating to administration and the military (ref #1). But many are also everyday vocabulary like "a dish, to whip, barkeeper"(ref #2).

The Osteria dell'Osa, possibly the earliest inscription in Greek, is from Italy - and from Latium of all places! Here's another one - the Cup of Nestor. I think these two may also be the earliest inscriptions from Italy full stop. Greek was already the Mediterranean lingua franca then.

The Greek words that appear to have come into English via Latin have done so not in a process of natural borrowing via contact by a community of native speakers, but via the specialised language of religion, scholasticism and later science. Even then most of them were probably never used as actual Latin words, but borrowed into English in a Latinate shape because of tradition. These have little to do with the subject of this thread.


----------



## fdb

Greek διφθέρᾱ “leather document”, borrowed (via Aramaic or Persian) as Arabic daftar “note book” > Turkish defter > Modern Greek τεφτέρι “ledger”. An old word returning home.


----------



## apmoy70

Sobakus said:


> Greek documents from Roman Africa and Palestine are replete with Latin loans relating to administration and the military (ref #1). But many are also everyday vocabulary like "a dish, to whip, barkeeper"(ref #2).
> 
> The Osteria dell'Osa, possibly the earliest inscription in Greek, is from Italy - and from Latium of all places! Here's another one - the Cup of Nestor. I think these two may also be the earliest inscriptions from Italy full stop. Greek was already the Mediterranean lingua franca then.
> 
> The words that appear to have come into English via Greek have done so not in a process of natural borrowing via contact by a community of native speakers, but via the specialised language of religion, scholasticism and later science. Even then most of them were probably never used as actual Latin words, but borrowed into English in a Latinate shape because of tradition. These have little to do with the subject of this thread.


The Byzantines borrowed (or continued to use) many Latin words for administration, μάγιστρος (magister) which has produced the MoGr μάστορας /ˈmastoɾas/ = craftsman, artisan; κόμης (e.g. κόμης τοῦ Ὀψικίου/comes obsequiī) which has given the MoGr name for earl/count, κόμης /ˈkomis/; σακελλάριος (sacellarius, the paymaster), which is a (bizzarely) common MoGr surname /saceˈlarios/. In Constantine Porphyrogenitus' _De cerimoniis aulæ Byzantinæ_ (mid 10th c.) we find 60 _authorities_ (Gr. ἀξίαι), of which, 26 belong to the armed forces (the rest are civic officials). The majority of the names is Latin (or corrupted Latin).
In present-day Church administrative hierarchy in the Orthodox East, the principal deputy of a Bishop is a Πρωτοσύγκελλος /protoˈsiɲɟelos/ < πρωτο- + syncellus; the official who is sent by a Patriarch as his representative abroad, is a Ρεφερενδάριος /ɾefenˈðaɾios/ < Lat. referendarius; the personal physician of a Patriarch is an Ἀκτουάριος /aktuˈaɾios/ < Lat. actuarius; the first secretary in a Patriarchate is a Πριμικήριος /primiˈciɾios/ < Lat. primicerius (and numerous other offices, νοτάριος /noˈtaɾios/< Lat. notarius, ὀστιάριος /ostiˈaɾios/ < Lat. ostiarius, ἀσηκρίτης /asiˈkritis/ < Lat. a secretis etc)


----------



## Ben Jamin

pollohispanizado said:


> They were both important, but the importance of the Greek language preceded that of Latin, and the Greek culture was the dominate culture of the region way before Romulus and Remus even existed. Even after Rome expanded, they still revered the Greek language and culture.


Is "dominate" instead of "dominant" a Canadian version?


----------



## pollohispanizado

Ben Jamin said:


> Is "dominate" instead of "dominant" a Canadian version?


No, just a typo


----------



## Penyafort

Dymn said:


> Maybe one counterexample to the strong vs. weak tendency is Greek and Latin. Greek loaned lots of words into Latin, but Greek borrowed surprisingly few words from Latin, or that is my impression, considering both were important languages of the Roman Empire.



And have you ever wondered why, if Catalan had influence on Sicilian or Sardinian, seems not to have had it in Greek during the Catalanocracy (_Η Καταλανοκρατία_) in Athens and Ypati (Neopatras)? Even if the time span was shorter, it lasted for almost the whole 14th century (1312-1388).

In Catalan we have _*bastaix *_'porter' (from _βάσταξ_), *arjau *'tiller' (from _οἴαξ_, Latinized as _*oiacem_ (acc.), whence a Catalan *_ojau_, turned into _aljau/arjau_ by adoption of the Arabic article), _*escar *_'drydock' (from _ἐσχάριον_, although I guess it could have come via Ligurian _scaro_), or that which is probably the most used word in Catalan to come straight from Greek, _*xarxa *_"net" (from Old Catalan _eixàrcia_, from _ἐξάρτια _"rigging, tackle of a sailing vessel").

Yet where are the Catalan ones in Greek? It'd be great to know some more about the use of Catalan in Athens during the 14th century, if it was really just reserved for a few feudal families and official bureacracy with the Crown, but it is very poorly researched. I find it a bit strange that the popular influence might only have been given among seafarers and trademen. Besides, Greek linguists seem to quickly associate everything sounding medieval Romance in their language to a Italian/Venetian/Genoese origin, while some words like *μπουγάδα *'laundry' (Catalan _bugada_) or _*μπαράκα *_(mod. _παράγκα_) 'shack' (Catalan _barraca_) and their attestation before Venetian influence seem to point otherwise. (Other ones like _καρδερίνα _'goldfinch' seem more interesting and could be more open to debate: Catalan? Genoese? Aragonese _cardelina_?).

In any case, I think it'd be nice to know with some more certainty if this could also be an example of one-way borrowing or not.


----------



## apmoy70

^^Well, truth to be told, the Catalans in Greece I'm sorry to say, didn't leave a good name, I mean Catalan males were excluded from visiting Mount Athos up to 2000! (300 Orthodox monks were slaughtered and 12 Athonite monasteries were razed to the ground by the Gran Companyia Catalana d' Orient)...in fact when in 1993 your own Josep Tero visited Athos and the Monastery of Iveron, he was not allowed to spend the night there (which is unheard of, the monks are renowned for their hospitality) because of his Catalan nationality, which led to the Genaralitat financing the Vatopedi's treasury as a symbol of reconciliation between Catalonia & Greece:


			
				Viquipèdia said:
			
		

> El 1993 fou expulsat del monestir dels Ibers, al mont Atos, després d'identificar-se com a català, atès que a Grècia encara era viu el record de les atrocitats de la Venjança Catalana, i es veié obligat a passar la nit a la intempèrie.[3] Colpit per aquesta experiència, en tornar a Catalunya treballà incansablement per aconseguir la reconciliació entre catalans i grecs. Els seus esforços obtingueren recompensa el 2005, quan el portaveu de la Generalitat de Catalunya i conseller de Política Territorial, Joaquim Nadal, i l'hegumen del monestir de Vatopedi inauguraren la restauració de la torre del tresor del monestir, finançada amb 240.000 euros per la Generalitat com a desgreuge per les massacres que els almogàvers hi havien comès al segle xiv.[4] La torre del tresor és un antic trull que acull l'esplèndida col·lecció d'obres d'art regalades al monestir al llarg de la història pels emperadors romans, els tsars de Rússia i altres monarques cristians.


PS: The only word I'm 100% positive it stems from Catalan is the surname «Αραούζος» [aɾaˈuz̠o̞s̠] < Araújo


----------



## Perseas

apmoy70 said:


> PS: The only word I'm 100% positive it stems from Catalan is the surname «Αραούζος» [aɾaˈuz̠o̞s̠] < Araújo


Interesting, thanks! It seems however that Araújo is nowadays mostly a Galician and Portuguese surname.


----------



## Dymn

Araújo doesn't look like a Catalan surname at all.


----------



## apmoy70

Perseas said:


> Interesting, thanks! It seems however that Araújo is nowadays mostly a Galician and Portuguese surname.


+


Dymn said:


> Araújo doesn't look like a Catalan surname at all.


OK then, but the surname must have landed here somehow, from what I found online it's a fairly common one in the Cycladic islands, in Athens, as well as in Cyprus, plus, the transliteration into Greek is with a /z/ and not a /x/


----------



## Penyafort

apmoy70 said:


> Well, truth to be told, the Catalans in Greece I'm sorry to say, didn't leave a good name, I mean Catalan males were excluded from visiting Mount Athos up to 2000! (300 Orthodox monks were slaughtered and 12 Athonite monasteries were razed to the ground by the Gran Companyia Catalana d' Orient)


No surprise. The Catalan Company was mainly formed by Almogavars.


apmoy70 said:


> PS: The only word I'm 100% positive it stems from Catalan is the surname «Αραούζος» [aɾaˈuz̠o̞s̠] < Araújo


Well, as you've been told, Araújo is not Catalan -a final unstressed o is uncommon in Catalan, by the way. Looking at statistics and maps, Araújo must be a Galician-Portuguese surname, with its focus in the southern Galician provinces, near the border with Portugal.


----------



## Hulalessar

Dymn said:


> Maybe one counterexample to the strong vs. weak tendency is Greek and Latin. Greek loaned lots of words into Latin, but Greek borrowed surprisingly few words from Latin, or that is my impression, considering both were important languages of the Roman Empire.


_Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio._
(*Horace*)

(Conquered Greece conquered her wild conqueror and brought the arts to rural Latium.)


----------



## pollohispanizado

Hulalessar said:


> _Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio._
> (*Horace*)
> 
> (Conquered Greece conquered her wild conqueror and brought the arts to rural Latium.)


There is a poem by Catallus (84 -- 54 BCE) in which he makes fun of a man named Arrius for adding an /h/ to words starting with vowels in order to sound more Greek (_chommoda_ for _commoda_, _hinsidias_ for _insidias_, _Hionios_ for _Ionios_) and, therefore, more educated. It seems very rare among minority languages that the conquerors/linguistic majority would learn it to seem more educated, unless said minority language maintained an exceptional social and cultural standing.


----------



## Sobakus

Horace's famous saying shouldn't be interpreted literally - Greek at the time wasn't a minority language even in Italy and Gaul, it was the lingua franca of culture and of Greek colonies across the Mediterranean. It had captured the Romans long before they captured Greece. Latin was trying to establish itself in a similar capacity, but ultimately was unable to challenge Greek in the eastern provinces. Though it does seem like it ended up being the language of administration there.


----------

