# Neapolitan: asetella



## rickyd

Hi

I'm trying to translate an opera which contains a small amount of Neapolitan dialect. I've found some online dictionaries, which have helped with most of it, but there are a few words for which I can find no translation. I was wondering if anyone here might be able to help. 

An example is the word "asetella"; the context is a tutor scolding his pupil for being fixated on the verb "to love" -

Ma che razza di cervella 
iusto comme a ‘n *asetella*
addò niente po’ restà,
comme c'entra il verbo amà?

The closest I could get was "ascetiéllo" which apparently means assiolo/horned owl. If "asetella" meant a bird (generally, not specifically an owl) that would seem vaguely to make sense in the context, but obviously I've no idea really. Any ideas?


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## moodywop

I'll have to ask my friends about "asetella", but I get the general meaning. He's basically calling the kid a scatterbrain:

What kind of brain is yours? Just like an  , it can't hold/retain anything.
What does the word "love" have to do with it?

EDIT: I was thinking that it might mean "a colander", which would make sense (I still haven't been able to get hold of a pure-bred Neapolitan )

EDIT2: I'm now positive that my guess was right. I found a Neapolitan poem online where "setella" is translated as "setaccio" = sieve. So in your quote it should be _'na setella._


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## rickyd

Thanks moodywop, that's brilliant! I think I've got one or two more words that I can't translate, but I need to go back to my notes. 

Thanks again - that's really helpful


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## rickyd

Hello 

Another one, in the same scene: 

"Mo’ l’abbiò lo tavolino
e la *‘mbaro* de trattà." 

Context: The tutor says this after the maid, who has interrupted the lesson, says to him "Notte e giorno a tavolino lo volete far schiattar" (which I'm taking to mean something like "You'll kill him, studying night and day"). Completely stumped by this one!


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## moodywop

The second sentence (it should be _'mparo_) should mean: "Now I'll teach her how to behave"(presumably he resents the maid's interference).

_L'abbiò _is definitely wrong. I can't guess what the original word may have been. 

Sorry!


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## rickyd

Thanks - yes, he resents the maid's interference very much (His next line is "Vanne, vecchia pazza!"). I was wondering if "abbio" was perhaps a variation on "aggio" which Wikipedia tells me is the 1st person present indicative of "avè" (Neapolitan for avere, as I'm sure you know). So something like "I'll have her at the table/desk and teach her to behave" or more idiomatically "I'll make her study, and teach..."? But I'm guessing wildly, of course.

In general, is substitution of "b" for "p" as in 'mparo/'mbaro something I should be looking out for elsewhere?


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## moodywop

No, I'm afraid that even changing it to _aggio _doesn't help. It would mean "now I have it - the table" 

It sounds like these lines were written by someone who was not a native speaker of Neapolitan and maybe asked around, which may explain why he wrote down the words incorrectly.

When people from other regions mock Neapolitans they imitate them by replacing "p" with "b" but that's imprecise. "p" and "b" are different phonetically in Neapolitan. After "m", "p" is influenced by the previous consonant but it is still different from "b". Those who are not familiar with Neapolitan wrongly assume all "p's" sound like "b's" which will indeed generate a few cheap laughs but is not accurate.

The correct spelling is _'mpara'._


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## flop

couldn't it be 'abbìo', that is 'avvio', 'inizio'?
as a Neapolitan, i have the feeling that this is an ancient variety of the language...


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## moodywop

flop said:
			
		

> couldn't it be 'abbìo', that is 'avvio', 'inizio'?
> as a Neapolitan, i have the feeling that this is an ancient variety of the language...


 
Hi flop

I thought of "abbìo" but it still doesn't make sense.

It's nice to have another Neapolitan around. I was beginning to feel like General Custer at Little Big Horn


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## Sinetris

> Ma che razza di cervella
> iusto comme a ‘n asetella
> addò niente po’ restà,
> comme c'entra il verbo amà?



Ma che razza di cervello
proprio come un setaccio
dove niente può restare,
come ci entra il verbo amare?



> "Mo’ l’abbiò lo tavolino
> e la ‘mbaro de trattà."



Ora le lancio il tavolino
e le insegno a contrattare.


Non provo a tradurlo nel mio pessimo inglese, ma spero possa essere comunque utile.

Ciao,
Duilio


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## flop

grande duilio! ma che lingua è? napoletano antico?


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## moodywop

Grazie, Duilio. Finalmente qualcuno che può aiutarci col napoletano! Io purtroppo lo parlo maluccio e sono quasi sempre costretto a ricorrere all'aiuto di napoletani veraci


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## rickyd

Thanks all

It's from a Donizetti opera written in 1826, with a libretto by Iacopo Ferretti and Andrea Leone Tottola. I don't know if any of them were Neapolitan; the opera was premiered in Naples and I think they just threw in a few words here and there to give it "local colour"

Another tricky bit: In a later scene, the tutor is again being annoyed by his pupil (having been similarly exasperated by the pupil's brother in the previous scene) and, as an aside, sings: 

"Ora vi' 'sto *pertecone* *porzi *m'ave d'appretà"

I was wondering if pertecone was related to the Italian "pertica" and this was somehow a euphemism for an idiot, stupid boy etc. Also if porzi might be purzì??


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## f4bo

Sinetris said:
			
		

> Ma che razza di cervello
> proprio come un setaccio
> dove niente può restare,
> come ci entra il verbo amare?
> 
> 
> 
> Ora le lancio il tavolino
> e le insegno a contrattare.
> 
> 
> Non provo a tradurlo nel mio pessimo inglese, ma spero possa essere comunque utile.
> 
> Ciao,
> Duilio



eccezionale - m'aveva incuriosito anche a me

PS: ora puoi anche tranquillamente aggiungere "Location=Napoli" nel tuo profile perche' non ci sono dubbi di dove sei.


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## moodywop

f4bo said:
			
		

> eccezionale - *m'aveva incuriosito anche a me*
> 
> PS: ora puoi anche tranquillamente aggiungere "Location=Napoli" nel tuo profile perche' non ci sono dubbi di dove sei.


 
What about you? Are you really from Milan? In two previous threads the structure in bold was said to be a typical mistake made by us southerners


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## f4bo

moodywop said:
			
		

> What about you? Are you really from Milan? In two previous threads the structure in bold was said to be a typical mistake made by us southerners


WAHAHA!  gotcha!

The real truth is: I was born and live under the "madonnina" long time ago BUT, my parents are 100% southerns (sardinian to be precise) and truly in all my life I've encountered 1% of real inborn Milan people!


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## moodywop

f4bo said:
			
		

> real *inborn* Milan people!


 
Be careful! _Inborn _means _innato _


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## f4bo

moodywop said:
			
		

> Be careful! _Inborn _means _innato _



allora e' giusto!

leggo dallo Zingarelli:
*INNATO* agg. *1* Che si possiede per natura e non viene acquisito con l'educazione o l'esperienza: _facolta', bonta', difetto -

_real inborn Milan people = veri milanesi 'naturali'


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## Sinetris

pertecone = persona molto alta e snella

Ciao,
Duilio

PS: Sono nato a Napoli ma mi sono trasferito, quando avevo due anni, nel Lazio. Mi trovo comunque ai confini con la Campania ed il dialetto non è molto dissimile da quello Campano.


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## rickyd

Grazie, Duilio


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## luke_77

Very bad deal! You gonna have very hard times with that translation. Hope you're not gonna learn it for personal use, cause you better talk Italian, otherwise you risk not to be understood by the majority of the italians!!  

Very hard for me as well!

Good luck!!
Luke


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## Alxmrphi

Scatterbrain, moodywop?


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## luke_77

Alex_Murphy said:
			
		

> Scatterbrain, moodywop?


 
What do you mean? What does scatterbrain mean?


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## moodywop

Alex_Murphy said:
			
		

> Scatterbrain, moodywop?


Alex, you wily northern git ! How did you know that scatter_brain was going to be my new screen-name? _Tien' 'a capa fresca!_



> "Ora vi' 'sto *pertecone* *porzi *m'ave d'appretà"


Like Duilio, the only word I understand here is _pertecone. _Anyway, the use of _ora _instead of _mo' _seems to confirm that this is an imprecise transcription of words the authors got from somebody else.
I'll ask around and see what I can find out.

PS Luke, a scatterbrain is someone who is "not thinking in a practical way, so that he cannot do things or he forgets or loses things" (adapted from link) - a description that fits me perfectly


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## rickyd

Morning 

I've got another one...

... mai *fochetti*, mai pallune,
 mai teatri, maje festini,
 manco *il ghiurno ai burattini...

*Context: the tutor is listing all the things which his pupil never experiences because of his father's strict rules for his upbringing. I guess fochetti might mean literally "little fires" but what might that mean in the context? Similarly, "ghiurno ai burattini" = day of the puppets?? Is this a Neapolitan festival?*


*


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## moodywop

rickyd said:
			
		

> ... mai *fochetti*, mai pallune,
> mai teatri, maje festini,
> manco *il ghiurno ai burattini...*
> 
> Context: the tutor is listing all the things which his pupil never experiences because of his father's strict rules for his upbringing. I guess fochetti might mean literally "little fires" but what might that mean in the context? Similarly, "ghiurno ai burattini" = day of the puppets?? Is this a Neapolitan festival?


 
Hy Ricky

I believe "fochetti" is not Neapolitan. It might be a reference to children playing :*fuochino... fuocherello... fuoco!* you're getting hot... hotter... you are hot! (Paravia) but this is just a wild guess.

The rest should mean:

...no ballgames, no theatre, no parties, not even a day at the puppet show


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## rickyd

Thanks Moodywop

Your guess at "fochetti" seems very plausible, right or not! It must be something along those lines.

Am I right in thinking that there is, or was, a strong tradition of puppetry in Naples?


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