# 悟飯やゴテンクスを生きかえらせて



## V3nom_is_here

なんだ、わかったぞ！　悟飯やゴテンクスを生きかえらせて戦ってもらおうってんだ

Does it say to bring Gohan (Rice) *and* Gotenks or does it say to bring Gohan *or* Gotenks ? I`m asking this because of the や (ya) symbol , which I`ve heard means "or" & "and" so I`m not sure which one it means in this case . Could anybody help me out here ?​


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## shiremono

Hi, V3nom_is_here

It's "*and*" in this case.
It's to bring Gohan, Gotenks (*and* anybody else) back to life.


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## V3nom_is_here

How do you know this ? Could you argument that please , because there is a guy on another forum who says we can`t determine if it says "and" or "or" because the "ya" symbol means both . Doesn`t it say "Gohan ya Gotenks" in which case we can`t determine if it says "and" or "Or" ?


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## V3nom_is_here

And what would be the exact translation of the sentence ?


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## shiremono

My rough translation: 

"Now I see! You're gonna bring _Gohan_ and _Gotenks _back to life and let them join the battle."
"No."

I'm not good at 'argument' but let me try. 
If you really mean "*or*" in this context, it has to be "_Gohan *ka* Gotenks_". 
Only when you can't bring both grammatically,  *や*  means  "*or*", I think. 
If you can give the details of that guy on another forum's  'argument',  it might help to explain the difference. 

Example;  _Watashi wa Tokyo ya Pari ni sumi-tai. _
"I want to live in a city such as Tokyo or Paris". 
(You can't live in both cities at the same time.)

I'll be back in the afternoon (Tokyo time). I hope somebody gives better explanation and clears it up for you and me by then.


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## V3nom_is_here

Here`s the thing : I know that it brought them both back to life , but the question is if he reffers that he wants to bring *both* of them to *fight* there ? 

And are you sure that "ya" means "or" when you can`t bring both gramatically ?


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## shiremono

I've once read "_Doragon __Bōru_ (Dragon Ball)" years before. But I can't remember the scene. So I didn't know that the two were actually brought back. Even then, I am almost one hundred percent sure of this usage of '_*ya*'_. _Goku_ said that_ Vegeta_ wanted to bring 'the both' back to fight, not 'either _Gohan_ or_ Gotenks'_. 

The meaning of this '_*ya*'_ is close but a little different from '_*to*'_.  This '_*ya*'_ implies bringing back some others aｌong with the two (if there are more than two). If there are only two to be brought back, '*ya*' is the same as '_*to*'_ and the usage of '*ya*' is rather euphemistic (somewhat like a usage of '*nado*').

"That _'*ya*_' means 'or' when you can't bring both gramatically", I'm not so confident. I have to look into many examples and grammar books before  affirming it, or maybe I need not, for there already seem to be cases which are hard to explain by this rule.

 For example:

(1)  "_Otōto *ya* imōto wa iru no (?)._"
"Do you have little brothers or sisters?"
(Implying that the affirmative answers both 'either' and 'both' will do)

(2)  "_Otōto *ka* imōto wa iru no (?)._"
"Do you have either little brothers or sisters?"
(Implying that the question is only about 'either' as a kind of requirement)

Sometimes the meaning of 'or' seems to be close to the meaning of 'and' to my present confusion about English. I wonder if I can't put the sentence (1) "Do you have little brothers and sisters?" to mean the same. I mean it is different from "Do you have both little brothers and sisters?".

If I nevertheless call this (1) '*ya*' of 'or', that of "Dragon Ball" is '_*ya*_' of 'and' which implies  others apart from _Gohan_ and_ Gotenks_. 

The problem is how to distinguish the two usages, I know. I believe I can distinguish them as well as any Japanese natives but I cannot show the difference clearly. I am sorry this reply doesn't help you much.


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## _forumuser_

I agree that ya here means "and". Since ya implies that there are more warriors that could potentially be brought back to life you could translate:

"Now I get it! What he [or she, I don't know] has is mind [or is saying, I don't know] is to bring back to life "*people" like* Gohan *and* Gotenkusu and have them fight for us."


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## V3nom_is_here

Well here`s the thing . That Vegeta guy , the one Goku (the one who makes the line) is talking to , revived everybody that a guy killed (Boo) . Now , does the translation say "I get it ! You`ve revived Gohan "ya" Gotenks to have them/him fight for us ." ? Because , if that`s the case , both of them have already been revived so the "ya" particle in this case means "and" , and it`s "to have *them* fight for us" .. which means he reffered to both of them fighting Boo .


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## _forumuser_

The -ttenda at the end (to iu no da) means that reviving the warriors is a plan, which may or may not have been explicitly stated. We don't know if they have already been revived; what Goku has understood is what the other person has in mind.


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## shiremono

I think I've got your question now.

Yes, "he reffered to both of them fighting Boo", because the same Object "Gohan '_ya_' Gotenkusu" is applied.


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## V3nom_is_here

Forumsuser , you didn`t understand what I said . The Warriors (Gohan & Gotenks) were ALREADY revived when Goku made that statements . So if Goku says "I get it ! You revived GOhan "ya" Gotenks to have them/him fight for us!" , then the "ya" particle means "and" because both of them had already been revived , thus he reffered to "have them fight for us" instead of having only one of them . 
Am I correct ? So Goku actually reffered to both of them coming to fight .


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## Flaminius

なんだ、わかったぞ！ Yes, I got you.

悟飯やゴテンクスを生きかえらせて Reviving Gohan, Gotenks (and others),

戦ってもらおうってんだ have them fight (for us).  That is/was your intention.

Maybe a guesswork but I'd like to share this;
Let a _ya_-statement Sy is made for objects A, B, C; Sy (A, B, C).
Sy (A, B, C) is T
if S (A) is T
OR S (B) is T
OR S (C) is T
OR S (something similar to A, B or C) is T.

Let a _ka_-stetement Sk is made for objects A, B; Sk (A, B).
Sk (A, B) is T
if S (A) is T and S (B) is F
OR S (A) is F and S (B) is T

Let a _to_-stetement St is made for objects A, B, C; St (A, B, C).
St (A, B, C) is T
 if S (A) is T 
AND S (B) is T
AND S (C) is T

T = true
F = false


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