# How do donkeys call?



## ThomasK

The point is : in Dutch we pronounce it as ee-ah ( i - a, we spell it), which to me means the most open and the closest vowel (in Dutch and all other languages, I think). By the way those are also the sounds toddlers first use in Dutch (mama, papa, pipi, kaka, ...).

I'd think it should be similar in a lot of languages. or isn't it ? Will you please mention the pronounciation especially ?

Thanks,
jang


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## jazyk

In Brazil we say something like iirró (hard to spell), but the rr would be similar to a Dutch h or ch.


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## ThomasK

Interesting: we do not hear a sound between the two. What can the sound of the final o be compared with (the sound of _come_ or of _dome_) ?


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## Joannes

ThomasK said:


> Interesting: we do not hear a sound between the two.


I'm not completely sure what "we" and "the two" are referring to, but if it's "we, speakers of Dutch" and "the two vowels in *i-a*", then I don't agree: there's a glottal stop (i.e. the sound I think you say when you say *eftjes m'n eetn laatn zakn* ).


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## ThomasK

Yes, but our donkeys do not seem to have the glottal stop between the i-a, I think. I do recognize the glottal stop in _eetn_ , though we do not have it in our dialect!


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## Joannes

ThomasK said:


> Yes, but our donkeys do not seem to have the glottal stop between the i-a, I think.


Then what do you say? *iejaa? *iewaa? You don't, do you? The fact that you write '-' indicates that you pronounce them seperately - well, in your mind, what you do is pronounce a glottal stop between them. Think about it.


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## ThomasK

You might be right, but at least it is not... as clear as in West Flemish ! )

In the meantime I might be starting to hear it, but I had not been talking to West-Felmsih donkeys ! ;-)


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## avok

a-i, a-i in Turkish


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## ThomasK

Amazing: they do it the other way around ! ;-)


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## avok

Hahaha, yes. But if a donkey does not stop making a sound, it will sound the same. ex:  "ai ai ai" may become : ... a *i a* i a *i a* i...


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## Tanthalas

In Spain donkeys talk as the Dutch ones


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## Nanon

French donkeys can pronounce nasal vowels  :
*"Hi-han ! hi-han !"
*


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## ThomasK

[Or put it the other way round: the French hear the nasal sound ??? ;-)]

Now where shall we have donkeys speaking some entirely different language without ee-ah/ i-a ???


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## Nizo

In Esperanto _azeno iaas_ (a donkey brays), he says *"ia! ia!"  *By the way, this is also the name of the donkey (Eeyore) in Winnie the Pooh:  _Ia_.


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## Zsanna

In Hungarian, it is *iá!* - but I could not tell you whether the "i" is our closest vowel (could be), the *á* is certainly the most open.
However, this vowel is not the same as in "mama, papa, baba etc." (Hungarian "a" does not have an equivalent in languages I know.)

But before they start to speak, babies say "*oá*!" (a wailing sound) that contains the most open vowel.


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## avok

Zsanna said:


> (Hungarian "a" does not have an equivalent in languages I know.)


 
I think it sounds like the "o" in "not" in English English or like open o in Portuguese.

Now I see why "Eeyore" is called that way!! ee-oo, 'cos it is a donkey!


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## Zsanna

It may well be, avok, but a Hungarian would never agree to that!  
I know that when English speakers pronounce say "asztal" (table) they say "osztol" and it may sound even acceptable for us.
But when _I _say "not" in English, I don't think of "nat", I think of something between our "o" and "á"...


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## avok

So you are more likely to adopt American/Canadian accent  a long "nawt"


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## Zsanna

It is very difficult to decide what one sounds like... It can certainly differ from what one would like to sound!  But I/we don't "aim" at the long "nawt" - maybe a short one!


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## Saluton

Russian: иа-иа (pronounced the same way as in Dutch). And it's also the name for Eeyore.


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## ThomasK

So ee-ah is fairly general. Only strange to me that the Turks hear ah-ee ! ;-)


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## sokol

ThomasK said:


> The point is : in Dutch we pronounce it as ee-ah ( i - a, we spell it), which to me means the most open and the closest vowel (in Dutch and all other languages, I think).



German (and Austrian) donkeys (which now live mostly in children's books rather than on farms) also say 'i-a' [i:-a:] (with main stress on the 'a' and secondary stress on the 'i').


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## No_C_Nada

_In these parts of the United States (California) it's "hee haw" in English and "jí jo" or "jí-jáu" in Spanish.


_


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## ThomasK

So anyone who explains the inverted sound order of Turkish donkeys ??? With us, we only have horses making such a high-pitched noise, and that is only one sound, not one following an open sound. Or are those Turkish donkeys mules/ crossbreeds ?


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## avok

ThomasK said:


> So anyone who explains the inverted sound order of Turkish donkeys ??? With us, we only have horses making such a high-pitched noise, and that is only one sound, not one following an open sound. Or are those Turkish donkeys mules/ crossbreeds ?


 

It's logical

step 1: the donkey breaths in : that makes an "ah" sound
step 2: it breaths out: that makes an "i" sound

So it is "a-i" "a-i" "a-i".


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## ThomasK

I am sorry, but then: why do the other donkeys breathe out before they breathe in ? ;-)

More seriously: I do not think you can produce sounds while breathing in (except when playing the Aboriginal pipes the name of which I do not remember now)... Or: I do not think that explanation will hold...


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## avok

ThomasK said:


> I am sorry, but then: why do the other donkeys breathe out before they breathe in ? ;-)
> 
> More seriously: I do not think you can produce sounds while breathing in (except when playing the Aboriginal pipes the name of which I do not remember now)... Or: I do not think that explanation will hold...


 

You cant breath "out" if you dont breath "in" in the first place. There must be some breath "in"side to take "out".  You can produce weird sounds when breathing in if you let your mouth open the way donkeys do. Sure I wont do that 'cos I am at work.


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## e.ma

I'd like to know if you actually have donkeys in your countries, near you; if you ever heard them yourselves.


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## ThomasK

Well, yes: I met ;-) some yesterday. But does that help to understand Turkish donkeys better ?


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## irene.acler

In *Italian*: _ih oh, ih oh_.


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## ThomasK

Now this is a little strange because the 'o' is rounded, also in Italian, I think. But still the mystery remains: why do Turkish donkeys call differently - or are they perceived to call differently ?


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## Outsider

Because an onomatopoeia is just an imitation of the true sound, and there are different ways to imitate animal sounds.


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## irene.acler

ThomasK said:


> Now this is a little strange because the 'o' is rounded, also in Italian, I think. But still the mystery remains: why do Turkish donkeys call differently - or are they perceived to call differently ?


 

That "ò" in Italian is open (as in the words "buòno", "suòno", "cuòre"...).


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## ThomasK

It is a little less open than an 'a', but OK, thanks. 

As for the different ways of imitating sounds and creating onomatopeias, I quite agree, Mr O ;-), but the funny thing is there seems to be noone who hears the /ee/ first, except for our Turkish friends. Those 'strange' things 'entice' me to find a logic for that. I am simply very curious (by nature).


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## e.ma

To me, the strange fact is that all of those donkeys (leaving Turkish ones aside) speak the same language. I suspect most of the countries mentioned here didn't ever have any donkeys, so those sounds you say would just be imported, probably from Spanish or so.
And the Turkish, they probably know their own donkeys sound too well to import any foreign take for it.

Of course I might be completely wrong... Tell me, please.


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## ThomasK

To me it is not a matter of language really. They simply produce the most closed and the most open sound (like children do), in a 'logical' order (except for the Turkish ones ;-) ) There is no copying, I think, just observation translated into (one or other) language. 

I keep wondering about the different word order !


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## e.ma

It feels very odd that different languages may express so closely the same sound. I'd say cocks sound the same all around the world, but in Spanish we see it as "kikirikí" (four /ee/ sound), while the English hear "cock-a-doodle-do" (completely different sounds!).
This is only an example, but it shows how it usually works.
Does anybody know any other animal which makes *the same* sounds in almost every language?


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## ThomasK

Very good question. Can our beloved moderator turn that into a new thread ? or shall I ? 

By the way: our cocks cannot pronounce the /r/ but they can round their lips ;-) which explains why they say : 'kuukelekuuu' _(/uuu/ being [y] in phonetics)_ -- At least they all need 4 syllables to get their message across !


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## avok

ThomasK said:


> It is a little less open than an 'a', but OK, thanks.
> 
> As for the different ways of imitating sounds and creating onomatopeias, I quite agree, Mr O ;-), but the funny thing is there seems to be noone who hears the /ee/ first, except for our Turkish friends. Those 'strange' things 'entice' me to find a logic for that. I am simply very curious (by nature).


 
Because our donkeys are not European, so they do just the opposite of their European counterparts.


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## ThomasK

[I thought you wanted to join the EU. So you'd better make your donkeys 'talk'/'call' the European way... ;-) ]


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## avok

ThomasK said:


> [I thought you wanted to join the EU. So you'd better make your donkeys 'talk'/'call' the European way... ;-) ]


 
Turkey is a democratic country so our donkeys are free to call /make sounds the way they want. But I highly doubt they talk, at least I have not seen/heard any.

PS: Not many people here want to join the EU. Don't believe everything your politicians say, they scare you with us  to get more votes.


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## e.ma

I have already said that I feel Turkish donkeys to be the only genuine/true ones here.

Thomask: when you speak of "a European way" of saying things, are you just kidding or such a thing does really exist? (by the way, I love your cocks having lips!)


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## ThomasK

EU way: just trying to generalize - and trying to make politics more fun !

In order to keep it funny: let's forget about the "true', or "genuine" cocks, or we might end up in fundamentalism (this is not a synonym for etymology, I hope) and to totalitarianism ! ;-)


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## MarcB

English: Hee haw


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## e.ma

Ok, Thomask, but this is different. Nobody is asking your cocks to pronounce the R sound. Fortunately, there is still a line between etymology and fundamentalism, and we're just talking of the first one.
If you want to put it in language terms, then Turkish (and Spanish/Portuguese) donkeys would be "native speakers", and the others would be "foreign learners". But I wouldn't say one is better than the other; I do appreciate people (donkeys?) who are capable to learn from what is different from them.


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## ThomasK

Just trying to be funny, e.ma ! The fundamentalist tendency might be with me: I often tend to think one form (ee-ah) is in some way more logical, or one root is the same. 

As for cocks "not being able" to pronounce the /r/, to round their lips: I do love the sound flora -and I love the "vocal diversity", but I am still inclined to think E "carries back" to former roots - and often the IE.


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## e.ma

(I know, Thomask. I thought I was also being funny when I said some of the donkeys were native speakers.)

Does "E" mean "English"? And "IE"?


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## ThomasK

Well, a good attempt at least. But E was meant to refer to etymology (I'll make it ET, or no, ETY next time !) and IE is Indo European (but that is fairly standard).


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## e.ma

Thank you Thomask. (You know, I'm fairly ignorant)

Ok, I recognize the "European" part of IE (i. e., the "E") could be considered as "a European way to say things". You just have to leave the "Indo" parte aside, that's all! 

But then, you are answering your own question; for I don't think the ETY of Turkish donkeys' sound may carry you back to any IE root!


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## ThomasK

_[Forget about ignorance, everyone has his/her interests, etc. - and intelligence as such won't save the world !]_
You're quite right, it does not make sense to look for a common (IE) root with regard to onomatopeia. But what is always interesting is learning to look at things from another (Indo ?) point of view (see worldviews at etymology). I think that is refreshing, equally refreshing as finding 'back' a root woord (and root meaning).


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## Encolpius

Zsanna said:


> It may well be, avok, but a Hungarian would never agree to that!  ...



Do you mean Hungarians [which has no importance here] or Hungarian phoneticians/linguists?


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*«Γκα, γκα»* with long -a, something like [ga: ga:]
The sound the donkey makes is called *«γκάρισμα»* ['garizma] (obviously onomatopoeic), or formally, *«ογκηθμός»* [oɲɟiθ'mos] (obviously from ancient Greek)
Verb *«γκαρίζω»* [ga'rizo] (onomatopoeic), formally *«ογκάμαι»* [oŋ'game] < ancient *«ὀγκάομαι/ὀγκῶμαι» ŏŋgắŏmæ (uncontracted)/**ŏŋgôm**æ* *(contracted) *< ancient name of the bird *«ὄκνος» óknŏs (masc.)* & *«ὄγκνος» ógnŏs *-> _heron_ (onomatopoeic name, heron makes a sound similar to dog)


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## ilocas2

I would say that in Czech donkey calls

*íhá* or *íhahá*


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