# Koń by się uśmiał



## Baltic Sea

Hello everybody!

There is a saying in Polish "Koń by się uśmiał". I wonder if "Koń by się uśmiał" can be translated into English as "That's enough to make a horse laugh".
The source: a polular Polish saying.
Thank you very much.


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## majlo

Isn't it "cat", not a horse?


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## kknd

majlo said:


> Isn't it "cat", not a horse?


it seems both versions are used… i guess that "cat" is 'original', whatever that means…


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## Szkot

Fascinating - I had never heard either of them.  What do they mean?


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## LilianaB

Hi Szkot. "It is enough to make a cat laugh' means that something is absolutely ridiculous. The horse idiom means the same in Polish. I don't really know if the cat idiom is of 100% English origin, but it is used, in English.


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## Baltic Sea

Thank you all your replies.


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## dreamlike

As far as Polish expression goes, I've never ever heard the version using "cat", and I'd probably treat it as fiddling with the phrase. 


LilianaB said:


> The horse idiom means the same in Polish.


It does not. It means the exact opposite - it's usually used in answer to some lame joke, to imply that it wasn't funny at all. That's the only usage I'm familiar with, and so is a respectable Polish dictionary - PWN. 


> Koń by się uśmiał (z czegoś) «o czymś mało udanym, bezsensownym»
> source


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## LilianaB

No, it does not, Dreamlike. Not the way I have known it and many people I know. It  was usually used when someone said something totally unbelievable -- almost ridiculously unbelievable. Maybe people use it differently these days -- who knows.

If you mean the cat idiom -- it also means something absolutely silly.


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## dreamlike

LilianaB said:


> No, it does not, Dreamlike.Not the way I have known it and many people I know. It  was usually used when someone said something totally unbelievable -- almost ridiculously unbelievable. Maybe people use it differently these days -- who knows.


That's not true. Even elder people I asked about this, my grandmother including, say that they have always used it in reply to some very unfunny joke or to describe some pointless, unsuccessful undertaking. That's the only usage one might come across these days, but maybe it meant something different to some people, some time ago. 



LilianaB said:


> If you mean the cat idiom -- it also means something absolutely silly.


I'm not in a position to comment on the English idiom. There is no Polish idiom using "cat", though, it's always been "koń by się uśmiał", the cat version is probably a calque from English.


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## LilianaB

It could be regional. I never heard it used in reference to a joke.

You are right, Dreamlike. There isn't most likely an idiom in Polish with a similar meaning which mentions a cat, instead of a horse -- at least I don't know one.


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## dreamlike

I, for one, sometimes use it this way


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## LilianaB

An example of the usage I had in mind. A store on the edge of the Sahara desert, where there has been no rain for months, has a note on the door: "Closed for two weeks because of severe flooding." " Koń by się uśmiał", or perhaps a camel.


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## majlo

I've always used this idiom to refer to something funny and I'm surprised to see this PWN entry. However, it's definitely worth knowing that.

By the way, I've never heard the version with "cat" in Polish either.


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## dreamlike

LilianaB said:


> An example of the usage I had in mind. A store on the edge of the Sahara desert, where there has been no rain for months, has a note on the door: "Closed for two weeks because of severe flooding." " Koń by się uśmiał", or perhaps a camel.



That's precisely what I meant, I could easily use "Koń by się uśmiał" in answer to this lame joke, and that's the commonest usage of this expression. Have you meant it as an unfunny joke, or am I hurting your feelings now?


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## LilianaB

This is not a lame joke.  I never heard it used in reference to a lame joke -- it would mean that the joke was not funny. The idiom means that something was ridiculously funny, verging on absurd. There is almost the same idiom in Russian -- it also means that something was absurd, funny, hard to believe.


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## majlo

I know there are different senses of humour and tastes, but to call this very good and ironic joke lame...


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## dreamlike

Of course, there's no accounting for tastes - I'd use use "koń by się uśmiał" here to imply that it was a poor joke and I didn't find it funny. Maybe there's something wrong my sense of humour, but that's one of the most lame jokes I've ever heard.



LilianaB said:


> The idiom means that something was ridiculously funny, verging on absurd. There is almost the same idiom in Russian -- it also means that something was absurd, funny, hard to believe.


I'm sorry, but Polish language is not a Russian language so it doesn't prove a thing, no-one uses it this way, here where I live at least.


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## LilianaB

Get a cane for it, Dreamlike.  You just have a totally different sense of humor, most likely, or perhaps I do. Polish is not Russian, but there are a lot of idioms and proverbs that are common to both languages.

It was really a joke for a horse, after all.


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## dreamlike

Yes, sense of humour happens to differ from person to person, but let's look at it this way - your example covers two possible usages (even if dictionaries don't recognize one of them - I can imagine it being used in this sense by some people maybe).


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## majlo

Well, if you put it this way, then it's always the case that this idiom covers the two possible usages. There'll always be someone who agress that some joke is side splitting and those who'll say it's run-of-the-mill.


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## dreamlike

Sounds like a fair summary to me. Let me just say that up until reading this thread, I'd consider it as misusing the phrase, I've never heard it used in this sense in my somewhat short life.


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## kknd

dreamlike said:


> That's not true. Even elder people I asked about this, my grandmother including, say that they have always used it in reply to some very unfunny joke or to describe some pointless, unsuccessful undertaking. That's the only usage one might come across these days, but maybe it meant something different to some people, some time ago.
> 
> 
> I'm not in a position to comment on the English idiom. There is no Polish idiom using "cat", though, it's always been "koń by się uśmiał", the cat version is probably a calque from English.


same here (only as an answer to a lame joke); version with a cat doesn't exist in polish.


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## Ben Jamin

dreamlike said:


> That's the only usage I'm familiar with, and so is a respectable Polish dictionary - PWN.


I have never heard such a usage as you describe. Maybe the editors in PWN are from the same region as you. By the way, is this the only meaning given by PWN?


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## dreamlike

Ben Jamin said:


> By the way, is this the only meaning given by PWN?


Apparently so - and apart from PWN's lexicographers, some other dictionaries say that's the only meaning. Interestingly enough, I've just looked up "koń by się uśmiał" in the PWN's Polish-English dictionary, and it translates as "it's enough to make a cat laugh", which means that something is extremely funny - so it seems to have two distinict meanings after all.


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## majlo

Przed chwilą dzięki żonie uświadomiłem sobie, że pominęliśmy w tej dyskusji pewien bardzo ważny szczegół. Nie wiem, czy się zgodzicie, czy nie, ale tak naprawdę to nie zależy od tego, czy żart jest śmieszny, czy nie (zresztą ustaliliśmy, że to kwestia bardzo względna). Otóż wydaje mi się, że to wyrażenie jest bardzo mocno nacechowane ironią i używamy go tylko wtedy, gdy jest potrzebna. 
Ja gdybym usłyszał jakiś typowy dowcip raczej bym nie użył tego idiomu, ale gdyby ktoś mi zabrał spod tyłka krzesło podczas siadania i grzmotnąłbym na podłogę i wszyscy by się zaczęli śmiać, wtedy zdecydowanie mógłbym powiedzieć: "Haha, koń by się uśmiał" (chociaż zapewne powiedziałbym coś znacznie innego ).


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## Ben Jamin

dreamlike said:


> Apparently so - and apart from PWN's lexicographers, some other dictionaries say that's the only meaning. Interestingly enough, I've just looked up "koń by się uśmiał" in the PWN's Polish-English dictionary, and it translates as "it's enough to make a cat laugh", which means that something is extremely funny - so it seems to have two distinict meanings after all.


This proves that there are no dictionaries that are 100% reliable. This is not unexpected, the authors are human, make errors and have personal idiosyncrasies as everybody else.


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## francisgranada

I'm not Polish, so maybe I'm wrong, but I can imagine the two approaches as follows:

1. (*i*) koń by się uśmiał - the joke is so funny that even a horse would laugh
2. (*tylko*) koń by się uśmiał - the joke is so stupid that only a horse would laugh


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## dreamlike

Hi Francis

As I stated earlier on, I tend to use the phrase only in the second sense you mention, and never precede it with "tylko".

But it makes sense


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## LilianaB

I am sure Francis, did not mean that _tylko_ should be used -- it was just for illustration purposes.

I only know it in the first sense. I would add that not even funny, but more on the absurd side.


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## francisgranada

Hi Dreamlike,

Of course (without "tylko" it sounds more "ironical"). I've used "tylko" and "i" in brackets only to illustrate the two theorical/possible interpretations .


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## dreamlike

Even if it was only for illustration purposes, I see nothing wrong with "tylko" - it could well be used and it would make sense.

The same can't be said of "i" in the first example, though.

I agree with your point about irony, Francis


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## francisgranada

LilianaB said:


> ...I only know it in the first sense. I would add that not even funny, but more on the absurd side.


Yes, and I think that this ascpect of absurdity is present in both of the interpretations. Finally, the idea of a laughing horse is also a bit absurd  ... (i koń by się uśmiał, widząc drugiego konia śmiać się )


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## LilianaB

I don't know. I think horses are considered laughing animals because they often show their teeth. There was even a movie about a laughing or talking horse, but I don't remember any details -- possibly an American movie.


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## Ben Jamin

The neighing of a horse reminds most people of laughing (at least in Poland).


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## Ben Jamin

francisgranada said:


> ... (i koń by się uśmiał, widząc drugiego konia śmiać się )


There is no accusative with infinitive in Polish. It should be "widząc (or słysząc) *jak drugi koń się śmieje*”.


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## dreamlike

Ben Jamin said:


> The neighing of a horse reminds most people of laughing (at least in Poland).


Oczywiście. Reszta świata, a w szczególności Norwegowie, śmieją się iście _perliście._


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## LilianaB

Yes, I agree with BenJamin. I think horses laugh -- even if just metaphorically.


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## kknd

Ben Jamin said:


> There is no accusative with infinitive in Polish. It should be "widząc (or słysząc) *jak drugi koń się śmieje*”.


here's my question about above one: i'd like to make smaller amends, so i'd propose one of _widząc_ (or _słysząc_) _drugiego konia śmiejącego_ [_się_] or (…) _śmiejącym_ [_się_]; which of these is best in your eyes, which is plainly incorrect—i must confess that my linguistical intuition fails here (i'd say that each is correct and they differ in style only; nonetheless i'm waiting for your comment).


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## LilianaB

_"__konia śmiejącego się" -- you absolutely need the reflexive here, although I like Benjamin's original version the most. 
_


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