# Arabian



## Suqutra

How do you say Arabian in Arabic?

Arabian is typically used to denote any Arab or any Arabic speaker, although this is incorrect because it's exclusive to people of the Arabian peninsula. Is there a word for this in Arabic?


----------



## normordm

Not as far as I know. We usually use خليجيون (gulfians) or أهل الخليج (people of the gulf). I'm not aware of a collective name that comes from the Arabian peninsula.


----------



## analeeh

'Arabian' is not used to denote any Arab or any Arabic speaker in English. In fact, 'Arabian' generally only refers to the peninsula. I don't know how to make this distinction in Arabic.


----------



## Suqutra

analeeh said:


> 'Arabian' is not used to denote any Arab or any Arabic speaker in English. In fact, 'Arabian' generally only refers to the peninsula.


Yes, I noted that.

Edit: I mean that it is used in this incorrect fashion.


----------



## Hemza

normordm said:


> Not as far as I know. We usually use خليجيون (gulfians) or أهل الخليج (people of the gulf).



Not everyone shares such definition. At least not Arabian themselves who do make the distinction between خليحيون and other areas like الحجاز, اليمن, نجد, most parts of Oman, which are not on the Gulf and are distinct (more or less) from the Gulf which should, by the way include parts of Southern Iraq but usually don't, in many people minds. It's not that I disagree with your statement but you must also notice that خليجيون is rather the name applied to Arabians by non-Arabian Arabs 



> I'm not aware of a collective name that comes from the Arabian peninsula.



Neither am I.


----------



## Suqutra

Hemza said:


> Not everyone shares such definition. At least not Arabian themselves who do make the distinction between خليحيون and other areas like الحجاز, اليمن, نجد, most parts of Oman which are not on the Gulf and are distinct (more or less) from the Gulf which should, by the way include parts of Southern Iraq but usually don't, in many people minds


 I would say that everything in the Persian/Arabic gulf is خليجي, so majority of Oman is not خليجي (in my opinion). 

I was just wondering if there was any word we had that meant Arabian in Arabic. Thanks for the responses.


----------



## Hemza

Suqutra said:


> I would say that everything in the Persian/Arabic gulf is خليجي, so *majority of Oman is not خليجي (in my opinion)*.



Unless I've been ambiguous, it was my point too .



> I was just wondering if there was any word we had that meant Arabian in Arabic. Thanks for the responses.



I have no idea. English may be more accurate than Arabic on this point (and than French as well because the counterpart of Arabian which is "arabique" is applied to many different things but not to humans).


----------



## Suqutra

We could say الناس من شبه الجزيرة العربية but that's all.


----------



## Hemza

I can't think of any other word, that also explain why Arabians are labelled as خليجيون by others when I think about it, because of the lack of a peculiar term to distinguish them from others.

Or may be, جزيري؟  (not to confuse with جزائري)


----------



## Suqutra

Hemza said:


> Or may be, جزيري؟  (not to confuse with جزائري)


Yeah, that'd work. Thank you.


----------



## Mahaodeh

Hemza said:


> It's not that I disagree with your statement but you must also notice that خليجيون is rather the name applied to Arabians by non-Arabian Arabs



I don't think that this is accurate. Most of the time, the word خليجي refers to a political concept not a geographic one. At least in the UAE, when they say khaliji, they mean the nationals of the countries that members of the GCC, hence Hijaz, Najd and southern Oman is included, Iraq is not.



Hemza said:


> explain why Arabians are labelled as خليجيون by others


For the above reason, because they are members of مجلس التعاون المشترك لدول الخليج العربية. However, many of the others link it with the Gulf not the council, so they confuse the definition.



Hemza said:


> English may be more accurate than Arabic on this point


I don't thinks so. 



Hemza said:


> Or may be, جزيري؟


No, jaziri refers to a person from جزيرة الفرات, mainly the beduins there. The eastern part of it is in Iraq and the western part of it is in Syria.

As for why in Arabic you don't need a word for Arabian, it is because the use of the word is different. العربية in the term الجزيرة العربية refers to Arabs as in the people, it is not the name of the peninsula; basically the name means "the peninsula of the Arabs". In fact, historically it was not called الجزيرة العربية, it was called جزيرة العرب, a much more accurate name. This is the whole point, the Arabs are not named after the peninsula, the peninsula is named after them.


----------



## Hemza

Mahaodeh said:


> I don't think that this is accurate. Most of the time, the word خليجي refers to a political concept not a geographic one. At least in the UAE, when they say khaliji, they mean the nationals of the countries that members of the GCC, hence Hijaz, Najd and southern Oman is included, Iraq is not. For the above reason, because they are members of مجلس التعاون المشترك لدول الخليج العربية. However, many of the others link it with the Gulf not the council, so they confuse the definition.



I see, I ignored this. Thank you .



> I don't thinks so



Why? Isn't Arabian applied to things coming from the Arabian peninsula? What terms has Arabic as a distinction between someone from the Arabian peninsula and someone who isn't?



> No, jaziri refers to a person from جزيرة الفرات, mainly the beduins there. The eastern part of it is in Iraq and the western part of it is in Syria.



You're right and it was out of my thoughts when I wrote my message.



> As for why in Arabic you don't need a word for Arabian, it is because the use of the word is different. العربية in the term الجزيرة العربية refers to Arabs as in the people, it is not the name of the peninsula; basically the name means "the peninsula of the Arabs". In fact, historically it was not called الجزيرة العربية, it was called جزيرة العرب, a much more accurate name. This is the whole point, the Arabs are not named after the peninsula, the peninsula is named after them.



I also learnt something knew. I knew about the existence of جزيرة العرب but wasn't aware of this distinction with الجزيرة العربية


----------



## Mahaodeh

Hemza said:


> Why? Isn't Arabian applied to things coming from the Arabian peninsula?



I mean I don't think that English is more accurate than Arabic on this point. I explained here:


Mahaodeh said:


> Arabs are not named after the peninsula, the peninsula is named after them.


----------



## Abu Talha

Mahaodeh said:


> the Arabs are not named after the peninsula, the peninsula is named after them.


Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the peninsula *was* named after the Arabs?Because the people known then as Arabs lived mainly within the peninsula at the time of this naming. But now the people called Arabs live elsewhere as well.

By the way, while it is arguable that English may be more accurate in it's use of Arabian for the peninsula, it also doesn't seem to have an adjective for "things" not specific to the peninsula. Because Arabic generally (with some exceptions) pertains to the language and Arab to the people. 

For example how to translate قهوة عربية ?


----------



## Suqutra

Abu Talha said:


> Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the peninsula *was* named after the Arabs?Because the people known then as Arabs lived mainly within the peninsula at the time of this naming. But now the people called Arabs live elsewhere as well.


Well, even then Arabs lived in places like Kush/Nubia (only a very small amount) Sinai, Al-Sham (parts outside of Arabia) and Mesopotamia.


Abu Talha said:


> By the way, while it is arguable that English may be more accurate in it's use of Arabian for the peninsula


Well, you could just say من شبه الجزيرة العرب my question was just about if there was a specific word that meant Arabian. It doesn't mean English is more accurate, it just means they have a faster and quicker way of saying it. By the way, Arabia used to denote a much larger area (at least in Latin) it was a little bit more northern since Arabs weren't exclusive to just the Peninsula. Although I don't think Sinai was a part of it, just a little north of the Peninsula of the Arabs 


Abu Talha said:


> For example how to translate قهوة عربية ?


Arabic coffee, since عربية means Arabic (or an Arab women, but that doesn't fit in this context) or an incorrect way of saying coffee car if your Egyptian


----------



## Abu Talha

Suqutra said:


> Well, you could just say من شبه الجزيرة العرب my question was just about if there was a specific word that meant Arabian. It doesn't mean English is more accurate, it just means they have a faster and quicker way of saying it.


Fair enough. How about also عربي(ة) جزيري(ة) if you want to avoid a prepositional phrase and stick with an adjective?


----------



## Suqutra

Abu Talha said:


> How about also عربي(ة) جزيري(ة) if you want to avoid a prepositional phrase and stick with an adjective?


That seems to work. 

I actually looked that up and it seems to refer to the horse rather than the actual person according to google images. The English term Arabian actually refers to the horse as well. Although you could just say حصان عربي جزيري or even just حصان عربي.


----------



## Mahaodeh

Abu Talha said:


> Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the peninsula *was* named after the Arabs?


Well, technically yes because it was named in the past.



Abu Talha said:


> Because the people known then as Arabs lived mainly within the peninsula at the time of this naming.


I'm not so sure about that. In addition to the fact that Arabs have lived outside the peninsula a very long time ago, there is also the fact is that we don't know when and how they were called Arabs. I read once that the root ع ر ب that gives the meaning of movement and originally the term referred to any nomads be they what we know today as Arabs or not. The root is Semitic in origin and was used by other Semitic languages too. So the term may not have originated in Arabic at all.

By the time of Classical Arabic, Arab referred to the people that spoke the language in particular whether they are nomads or not and nomadic Arabs were called أعراب. The use of the word عرب to refer to nomads in some dialects is a much later reversal.

On a personal thought, I would imagine that it was named جزيرة العرب long before Classical Arabic, and not because the Arabs as we know today live in it, but because the majority of the residents were nomads even though not all were nomads. But this is just my thought based on what I read, I have no proof of it.



Suqutra said:


> It doesn't mean English is more accurate, it just means they have a faster and quicker way of saying it.



Maybe so. But I think that if it were needed, it would have been invented. On the other hand, maybe we need it now although I can't imagine why you need the distinction. If you are referring to the people, the definition of Arab today is someone who speaks Arabic as his native language even if he/she had ancestry from some other people. A much less widespread definition is someone that can trace his roots to an Arab tribe. So for the people it doesn't really make sense since it has nothing to do with the peninsula.

If you need it to use for geographic features for example, then the names of the regions can be used (يمني، نجدي، حجازي), and otherwise just عربي would work such as الخيول العربية.

This is just my opinion, I'm not objecting to finding a specific term.

On another note, it is indeed strange that there are so many terms in English to refer to عربي: Arab, Arabic, Arabian... I think it has more to do with the history of the English exposure to Arabs rather than anything else because it's rare that you find this in English, you don't have for example: French, Frenchic and Frenchian, you just have French; but you do have Scott, Nordic, and Hungarian. So maybe in English it was never really a distinction and this came up later because there were so many words to denote عربي and it needed to be explained. Again, just thinking out loud.


----------



## Suqutra

Mahaodeh said:


> On another note, it is indeed strange that there are so many terms in English to refer to عربي: Arab, Arabic, Arabian... I think it has more to do with the history of the English exposure to Arabs rather than anything else because it's rare that you find this in English, you don't have for example: French, Frenchic and Frenchian, you just have French; but you do have Scott, Nordic, and Hungarian.



This simply a result of the English receiving multiple words from of same people from different sources. The word Arab is taken directly from the Arabic word عرب. Arabic us takem from Latin Arabicus. The -icus suffix being a denoyom indicator or turns the word into in adjective. And then the word Arabian is English, the which comes from Arabia and adds the -an suffix at the end.

These words can be used in slightly different ways. Arabic could refer to the language, Arab could refer to the people, and Arabian could pertain to the Peninsula of the Arabs.


----------



## analeeh

Abu Talha said:


> Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the peninsula *was* named after the Arabs?Because the people known then as Arabs lived mainly within the peninsula at the time of this naming. But now the people called Arabs live elsewhere as well.
> 
> By the way, while it is arguable that English may be more accurate in it's use of Arabian for the peninsula, it also doesn't seem to have an adjective for "things" not specific to the peninsula. Because Arabic generally (with some exceptions) pertains to the language and Arab to the people.
> 
> For example how to translate قهوة عربية ?



'Arab coffee' or possibly 'Arabic coffee', but Arabic more often refers to the language.


----------



## Suqutra

analeeh said:


> 'Arab coffee' or possibly 'Arabic coffee', but Arabic more often refers to the language.


Arabic refers to anything Arab. It just most generally refers to the language. It's why we specify that عربية is اللغة العربية. We don't generally say عربية أو العربية when refering to the language. 


Suqutra said:


> Arabic us takem from Latin Arabicus. The -icus suffix being a denoyom indicator or turns the word into in adjective.
> .


----------



## Mahaodeh

Suqutra said:


> We don't generally say عربية أو العربية when refering to the language.



Yes we do! We say for example: إنه يتحدث العربية, don't we?


----------



## Suqutra

Mahaodeh said:


> Yes we do! We say for example: إنه يتحدث العربية, don't we?


I mean by itself. 


Abu Talha said:


> For example how to translate قهوة عربية ?


Actually, this means Coffee Arabica if you want to be specific.


----------



## analeeh

Suqutra said:


> Arabic refers to anything Arab. It just most generally refers to the language. It's why we specify that عربية is اللغة العربية. We don't generally say عربية أو العربية when refering to the language.



The usage in Arabic is irrelevant to the usage in English. I can only speak for the usage in English, where 'Arabic' is most commonly used to refer to the language ('Arabic literature' for example) but is also used sometimes to refer to other Arab-related things ('Arabic coffee' sounds OK, but some people might find it weird).


----------



## Suqutra

analeeh said:


> ('Arabic coffee' sounds OK, but some people might find it weird).


Like I said, Coffee Arabica is the best translation.


----------



## analeeh

Suqutra said:


> Like I said, Coffee Arabica is the best translation.



No, it isn't. 'Coffee arabica' sounds, frankly, wrong. 'Arabica coffee' sounds OK, but refers to a specific kind of coffee beans, not to قهوة عربية, which we normally call 'Turkish coffee' or maybe 'Arab(ic) coffee' - again, as I said previously.


----------



## Suqutra

analeeh said:


> No, it isn't. 'Coffee arabica' sounds, frankly, wrong.


I found this in the dictionary. This is the scitenfic name for it, which is why it sounds weird. Turkish/Arabic Coffee is a casual way to say it.


----------



## analeeh

Suqutra said:


> I found this in the dictionary. This is the scitenfic name for it, which is why it sounds weird. Turkish/Arabic Coffee is a casual way to say it.



'Best translation' and 'scientific name' are not the same thing, unfortunately. As a quick google will show you, 'coffee arabica' (given it is a scientific name) refers to a specific type of bean. Scientific names are generally something plant species etc have - thus it referring to the specific coffee bean, as I said, and not to قهوة عربية which refers generally not (simply) to the type of bean but to the method of preparation.


----------



## Suqutra

analeeh said:


> As a quick google will show you, 'coffee arabica' (given it is a scientific name)


My apologies, I just saw it in a dictionary. Coffee Arabica would be بن عربي


----------



## Schem

Personally, I use individual region names (Hejazi, Najdi, Yemeni, etc.) when I want to make a distinction. Otherwise, I'd use أهل الجزيرة العربية for an inclusive term although it's true it's somewhat awkward to use and much less convenient than English Arabian (i.e. of Arabia).



Suqutra said:


> I would say that everything in the Persian/Arabic gulf is خليجي, so majority of Oman is not خليجي (in my opinion).



Technically, only the island nation of Bahrain lies within the Persian Gulf. Other areas broadly associated with an Arab Gulf culture are those of the Gulf littoral itself stretching from southern Iraq in the north to the western coast of Musandam in the south. It's based on this understanding that forumers like Hamza have accurately pointed out that it's a geographic misnomer to apply خليجي to the rest of the Arabian subcontinent. Culturally, other regions of Arabia boast their own independent cultures and histories as well so خليجي wouldn't be applicable here either- at least historically.

That said, it's true that two events have precipitated the use of the term politically to refer to most inhabitants of Arabia as pointed out by Mahaodeh. The first being the unification of Saudi Arabia into its current form in 1932 and subsequent decline of using Assir, Hejaz, Najd, etc. as independent geopolitical terms and the foundation of the GCC in 1981 which brought all member state citizens under the umbrella term خليجي. It's for this reason that the term is rarely applied, for example, to the inhabitants of Yemen despite sharing a cultural continuum with their neighbors across the border in Oman and Saudi Arabia.



Abu Talha said:


> For example how to translate قهوة عربية ?



In English, Arabian for coffee from Arabia works perfectly. I often make the distinction between Arabian coffee made in a dalleh and Turkish-influenced Arab coffee made in a rakweh.


----------



## Suqutra

Schem said:


> Otherwise, I'd use أهل الجزيرة العربية for an inclusive term although it's true it's somewhat awkward to use and much less convenient than English Arabian (i.e. of Arabia).


I think عربي جزيري works 


Abu Talha said:


> How about also عربي(ة) جزيري(ة) if you want to avoid a prepositional phrase and stick with an adjective?


----------

