# Ιθαγένεια, Υπηκοότητα



## deerdock

I'd like some clarification regarding these two terms. Based on my research, they're used as synonyms by the layman in contemporary Greece, but they actually don't mean the same thing. "Υπηκοότητα" goes back to the times of feudalism, with a literal translation being "subjectship". "Ιθαγένεια" hints at national ties, with a literal translation being "indigeneity". And "citizen" (of the city) is the equivalent of "πολίτης". What legal functions do these terms have in contemporary Greece? I'm quite confused, since I get the impression that contemporary Greek law doesn't observe their literal meanings. Does "υπηκοότητα" act as "permanent residency"? And if so, does "ιθαγένεια" act as "citizenship"?


----------



## ireney

Hello there!

The two terms (υπηκοότητα and ιθαγένεια) may have different etymological meaning, but they mean the same in Greek (Greek law included). Υπηκοότητα does go back to when we had a king and we were his subjects. Ιθαγένεια does mean, literally, that someone is indigenous to a country. In  Greece these two are used with the same meaning: You are a Greek citizen 

There are some people these days who, because of the different etymology of the words, try to differentiate between the two (saying that "ιθαγένεια" can only be applied to "true" Greeks) but this is just plain wrong. 

The only differentiation comes when we're talking about the noun. We do _not_ say "Έλληνας ιθαγενής" but "Έλληνας υπήκοος". (Mod hat on: You can ask about the connotations of the word "ιθαγενής" in a separate thread. Mod hat off).

So, a Greek-American for instance, while he has "ελληνική εθνικότητα", he does not have "ελληνική ιθαγένεια/υπηκοόητα" while, say an American-Greek  does not have "ελληνική εθνικότητα", but does have "ελληνική ιθαγένεια/υπηκοότητα" (we're talking about someone who does not have any blood relation with Greece obviously).


----------



## deerdock

So in contemporary Greek law there is no differentiation? Why bother using both terms then?


----------



## shawnee

It should all become a little clearer if you follow ireney's hint to open a new thread on the subject of "ιθαγενής".


----------



## sotos

deerdock said:


> Why bother using both terms then?



I believe we have a political bias here. An attempt to create a semantic osmosis between ιθαγενής and υπήκοος.


----------



## ireney

Deerdock, what, in English you have no cases of using two different words with different etymological roots for the same thing? 

Sotos, there's no political bias. It's what they mean and it's official so that's that.


----------



## deerdock

ireney said:


> Deerdock, what, in English you have no cases of using two different words with different etymological roots for the same thing?



Of course. But that's not usually the case in law, at least in American law; each legal term has its own distinct meaning. So basically "ιθαγένεια" and "υπηκοότητα" both mean citizenship in contemporary Greek law. What would permanent residency be called? Or does such an immigration status even exist in Greece?


----------



## sotos

Yes, there are practically   permanent  residents who are not citizens.  Some are literally (but not legally) "ιθαγενείς" but not "citizens" in the sense that they have been born in Greece by foreign parents, but do not have greek citizenship. 
I insist that there is a political use of the terms, as the immigration law is a central issue in the politics of various parties, with the left trying to give citizenship to all long term residents.
An old dictionary I have (Δημητράκου), issued before the immigration problem arise,  gives  a slightly  different meaning for  ιθαγένεια and υπηκοότης. The former is "the legal and political ties of a person to the state where it belongs". The latter is exactly the "citizenship". It seems that one could be legally "ιθαγενής" without being υπήκοος of a state. It is possible  that this was common in the late Ottoman period. For example, in the Ottoman Thessaloniki there were many Jews who were indigenous for many generations, but citizens of Italy or other countries.


----------



## ireney

You forgot to mention that back then υπηκοότητα by default had a different meaning because we actually could be subjects to a king 'cause we actually had one. And in 1936 (that's when Δημητράκος published his dictionary isn't it? Not quite sure of the actual date thought, a lot of things were different, not just the "left trying to give citizenship to all long term residents" as you choose to put it.


----------



## Αγγελος

A permanent resident is simply μόνιμος κάτοικος.
Ιθαγένεια and υπηκοότητα are synonymous in law. Greek citizens who, while resident abroad, act against (what the Government perceives as) the country's interests can be deprived of their citizenship, and this is officially called στέρηση της ελληνικής ιθαγένειας (it happened, among others, to Melina Mercouri under the colonels' régime, and she wrote a song called "Είμαι Ρωμιά" to protest the absurdity of this measure.) Both serve as abstract counterparts to πολίτης = citizen, whose derivatives (πολιτεία, πολιτισμός...) have other meanings.
Εθνικότητα, on the other hand, _can _be used to denote one's 'natural" nationality (by blood rather than by administrative fiat). And for the notion of being registered as a citizen of a particular municipality, the word δημοτικότητα is used, but only in administrative parlance (in ordinary Greek it means "popularity").


----------

