# pronunciation: me for my



## LV4-26

Good morning friends,

Having been to England quite a few times, I'm not too badly acquainted with British colloquial expressions (provided they're not too recent ). But since I've been on this site, I've been interested in knowing which of them are also used in AE. That's why I'm going to ask the same kind of question again. 

My question : is the British colloquial use of "me" in the place of "my" also used in American English?
It's something that you hear extremely often in England. I'll take two examples from my esteemed friend Joe Cocker (at Woodstock festival) :
_The next song is "With a Little Help from *me* friends"
The Grease Band and *me*self thank you very much.

_Are the Americans aware of it just because they've  heard Brits say it or because they use it as well?

Incidentally, until I checked a few minutes ago, I'd always thought Cocker was American o). That's why I thought of asking this question in the first place.

Jean-Michel


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## MarcB

I have never hear it used in AE but I am familiar with it from BE.


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## Nunty

I believe it would be just plain incorrect in AE, but most AE speakers are familiar with it from BE music, films and so on.


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## Victoria32

Nun-Translator said:


> I believe it would be just plain incorrect in AE, but most AE speakers are familiar with it from BE music, films and so on.


That takes me back, that does! My father always said "me glasses", "me chair" etc... 

Joe Cocker, American? He'd be rolling in his grave if he was dead...


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## LV4-26

Nun-Translator said:


> I believe it would be just plain incorrect in AE, but most AE speakers are familiar with it from BE music, films and so on.


Oh, but I believe it's plain incorrect in BE as well.  The difference seems to be that that incorrection never crossed the pond.


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## mirx

I´ve never heard it in The States but is quite common in Ireland too.

I love you with all me heart.


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## Kelly B

It's one of the favorite tools of Americans seeking to fake some variety of UK accent. The furthest some of us get from my, I think, is maaaaaaaaaa.


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## Brioche

In BE, turning_ my_ into _me_ is not considered very high-class. 

However, in old-fashioned aristocratic English, _my_ often became _mi_ with a very short i sound. 
Lawyers in English cours address the judge as "My lord", and pronounce it either as _mi-lord_ or _mi-ludd._


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## Outsider

I see it more as an alternate pronunciation of "my", than as an incorrect usage of "me".


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## se16teddy

The Middle English Vowel Shift, in which the i sound came to be pronounced ai, affected long stressed vowels more than short unstressed ones. So in my *hat* (stress on hat) the y is pronounced i like the i in saying, but in *my* hat (stress on my), y is pronounced ai like the i in mind. At least in England, this feature of pronunciation is common to speakers from all areas, all social classes and all levels of education, especially when they are speaking informally. 
In some kinds of non-standard writing, such as within speech marks, the unstressed pronunciation of 'my' is indicated by spelling the word 'me'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Bed_With_Medinner


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## LV4-26

Blimey, se16teddy! You really go' me head spinning on tha' one!
Thanks a lo', mates


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## invictaspirit

I would just add that saying 'me' for 'my' in BrE is more _a dialectical way of saying_ 'my' than the actual replacement of the word. In other words, Brits who say 'me dad' _think_ they are saying 'my dad' and would write 'my dad' (unless they were joking/being ironic/badly educated). I would also add that it is more 'mi dad' than the full 'ee' sound in 'me dad'. In this region (and I think most others) the I sound in 'mi dad' is the same as the one in _pit_ and _sit_, not _me_ and _she_. Actually saying 'me dad' gives far too long a vowel in _me_. You will also hear 'my' said with a *schwah*. _M' car/muh car _You are probably familiar with the old expressions _m' lady_ and _m' lord_ etc. That pronunciation is often still used.


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## LV4-26

invictaspirit said:


> You will also hear 'my' said with a *schwah*. _M' car/muh car _You are probably familiar with the old expressions _m' lady_ and _m' lord_ etc. That pronunciation is often still used.


Yes. In that case, it's only a specific illustration of a more general phenomenon : most unstressed vowels tend to be transformed into a schwah. Although I'd bet it isn't as simple as that; there must be lots of other factors in play.


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## clairanne

Hi
I think it is just regional accents, bad grammar and lazy speech.  Even if I said "where's me hat", or more likely ("where's me 'at") I still know that the word should be "my".  My mother and school teachers would have always told me off for saying it when I was young.

Some pop singers tend to go more mid Atlantic and say "ma" I think Joe Cocker is actually nearer to this than "me" on the recording I've got.


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## petereid

the possessive idjectives up here in the north are sometimes bizarre.
"Give us us shirts" is pretty common in  Yorkshire and I think Lancashire 
"Where's wor tommy?"  "That's wa house"    Newcastle, and Scots
Lots of "Me", or "Mi" instead of "My"
and "Tha" instead of   "Thy"  (your) That informal usage is still alive up here.


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## mirx

petereid said:


> the possessive idjectives up here in the north are sometimes bizarre.
> "Give us us shirts" is pretty common in Yorkshire and I think Lancashire
> "Where's wor tommy?" "That's wa house" Newcastle, and Scots
> Lots of "Me", or "Mi" instead of "My"
> and "Tha" instead of "Thy" (your) That informal usage is still alive up here.


 

Do some people still use "thy" in everyday speech?


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## panjandrum

mirx said:


> Do some people still use "thy" in everyday speech?


Hava a look at Thee, thou, thy


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## MISTERMOPPS

Brioche said:


> In BE, turning_ my_ into _me_ is not considered very high-class.
> 
> However, in old-fashioned aristocratic English, _my_ often became _mi_ with a very short i sound.
> Lawyers in English cours address the judge as "My lord", and pronounce it either as _mi-lord_ or _mi-ludd._


In Alexandre Dumas' "Les 3 Mousquetaires", one of the characters is called "Milady", and one of Edith Piaf song is "Allez venez Milord", the two expressions still sound very posh and charming for French people .


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## natkretep

clairanne said:


> I think it is just regional accents, bad grammar and lazy speech.  Even if I said "where's me hat", or more likely ("where's me 'at") I still know that the word should be "my".  My mother and school teachers would have always told me off for saying it when I was young.



But the word _is _in fact 'my'. It's just that speakers have a weak form for pronunciation, just like we use the weak form of _the _ most of the time unless we want to stress it and use the strong form /ði:/. Similarly, _your _as either /jə/ or /jɔ:/. Speakers are not confusing _me _and _my_. It's just that _my _can be pronounced /mɪ/ or /maɪ/.

David Crystal, writing on Shakespeare in Original Pronunciation indicates that actors at that time depicting all classes of society including kings and queens would also use /mɪ/ in unstressed position.


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## almostfreebird

Hello there, this is the context:

Cradled in the life-support chair was a very old man. 
"Ghoul," he was saying softly to a man halfway down the table. "You're a slavering ghoul, Parky *me* boy. Didn't your father teach you that it is polite to wait for a man to stop kicking before you bury him?--(I will fear no evil by Robert Heinlein-- Source  http://www.e-reading.org.ua/bookreader.php/73036/Heinlein_-_I_Will_Fear_No_Evil.html

Is the "me" kind of interjection like "Ah me!" or "Unlucky me!"?
or a dialectal variant of "my"?

Thanks in advance.


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## Glenfarclas

The latter:  a dialectical variant of "my."


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## PaulQ

it's a dialectal variant of "my", it's common in Ireland.


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## ewie

*Moderator note: *Almostfreebird's question merged with a previous thread ~ plenty more answers above


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## ewie

se16teddy said:


> At least in England, this feature of pronunciation is common to speakers from all areas, all social classes and all levels of education, especially when they are speaking informally.


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## ><FISH'>

It is definitely not a lazy way to pronounce "my", it is in fact the full word and pronunciation of "me". Someone typing in a dialect will use the word "me" instead of "my", because it does sound natural. I even do that sometimes (not here of course). It's even common to use the word "our" in place of "my", and "us" in place of "me" as a singular.


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## Alxmrphi

Couldn't agree more with the previous two posts (quotes included).

I've always typed "me" (alongside 'my' - it depends) in sites like Facebook because it's my natural pronunciation, and it is absolutely by no means some sort of weird variation, it's massively diffused and not lazy at all. Even the people that would probably call it lazy and "not desirable" will probably say it in the situations where they are being colloquial, and avoiding it wherever they see informal speech inappropriate.



> It's even common to use the word "our" in place of "my", and "us" in place of "me" as a singular.


Yeah, that is quite common, it's extremely common in most situations in NE England (at least from what I've come across).
Like if you were greeting a family member they might say "_Come here and give us a kiss!_", they can easily be standing by themselves, at no point is any consideration of plurality going to cross anyone's mind.


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## almostfreebird

Alxmrphi said:


> Couldn't agree with the previous two posts (quotes included).



You mean "couldn't agree more"?


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## Alxmrphi

almostfreebird said:


> You mean "couldn't agree more"?


 Hmm... what happened there? Random words missing!
Yes I did, I've put it in now.


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## mplsray

almostfreebird said:


> Hello there, this is the context:
> 
> Cradled in the life-support chair was a very old man.
> "Ghoul," he was saying softly to a man halfway down the table. "You're a slavering ghoul, Parky *me* boy. Didn't your father teach you that it is polite to wait for a man to stop kicking before you bury him?--(I will fear no evil by Robert Heinlein-- Source  http://www.e-reading.org.ua/bookreader.php/73036/Heinlein_-_I_Will_Fear_No_Evil.html
> 
> Is the "me" kind of interjection like "Ah me!" or "Unlucky me!"?
> or a dialectal variant of "my"?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



In this case _me_ represents what in standard grammar and pronunciation would be _my.


_The work in question is a science fiction novel from 1970 taking place long in the future. The character who speaks the expression in question, Johann Sebastian Bach Smith, is extremely old, and, according to the Heinlein Concordance Web site, his original name was Schmidt, which raises at least a possibility that he was a German-speaking immigrant. Under the circumstances, I don't think this can shed any light on whether any Americans actually do currently use _me_ for _my_.


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## Man_from_India

Is these the current usage?


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## natkretep

Man_from_India said:


> Is these the current usage?



Read the posts above carefully: there are people who say they use these pronunciations. So, yes, current usage for some speakers. As mentioned above, this is the weak form of _my_. We have weak forms of other possessive pronouns _your, his, her, their_ (strong forms: /jɔː hɪz hɜː ðɛː/, weak forms: /jə ɪz ə ðe/), so why not for _my_?


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## Jocaste

Me instead of my seems to be extremely common in Northern English English, especially in Liverpool and Newcastle. I've heard it more there than my, almost.
"Me car", "me mate", etc.


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## Makamoe

I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't find the right words to look for it. My doubt concerns the usage of personal pronouns where there should be possessive adjectives. For example, instead of _* My *brother is taller than me_  or _ I   have *my *books in *my *room_ I've seen_ *Me *brother is taller than me_ or _I have *me *books in *me *room_.

I only recall seeing it on British or Irish shows (_The Full Monty_, _Mrs Brown's Boys_) and only in the first person, so I've come to believe that it's some sort of regionalism. 
*Is this right? What's the name o f this phenomenon? And is it grammatically accepted?*

Thanks in advance.


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## ewie

Hullo Makamoe.  I know just the thread you're looking for ~ I've added your post to the end of it above
~ewie, moderator


by ewie, non-moderator
When you ask "Is this right?", Makamoe, do you mean: (a) "Is it true that it's some sort of regionalism?"; or (b) "Is it correct to speak this way?"
My answer to (a) is _In British English, no, it's not a regionalism: all speakers do it.  If a British English speaker tells you he doesn't do it, that's a British English speaker who's never listened to himself speak_.
My answer to (b) is _That depends what you mean by correct.  It's extremely common in all varieties of colloquial British English._

Sorry, I don't know the name of the phenomenon, other than 'reduced form of _my_' (see posts above).

In answer to your question "Is it grammatically correct?", the answer is "Yes" ~ unless you ask someone who would say "No" (and who would also probably claim that they would never say it.)


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## Makamoe

Thanks a bunch ewie, for the merge and the answers. I meant (a) in the first case. What I'd mean by _correct _is _Is it grammatically correct?_, which was the third question. But I must say that knowing it is colloquial clears it up pretty much.

I've been able to find some mentions on Wikipedia, particularly on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_personal_pronouns#Archaic_and_non-standard_forms, where it is listed under _Archaic and non-standard forms_. I don't know if you'd agree that it is non-standard being so common in the isles, but I guess it means that it's rather spoken than written English.


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## Loob

Hi Makamoe

No, it's not "non-standard".  We usually use the term "non-standard" to refer to variations in grammar, and this has nothing to do with grammar.

It's to do with pronunciation, as ewie says (and therefore to do with spoken language). And yes, pretty much everyone in BrE uses "mi" as a reduced/weak form of "my", whether or not they accept that they do.


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## ewie

Loob said:


> Hi Makamoe
> 
> No, it's not "non-standard".  We usually use the term "non-standard" to refer to variations in grammar, and this has nothing to do with grammar.
> 
> It's to do with pronunciation, as ewie says (and therefore to do with spoken language). And yes, pretty much everyone in BrE uses "mi" as a reduced/weak form of "my", whether or not they accept that they do.


 And it is most definitely *not* archaic.


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## Loob

A further thought on the "standard"/"non-standard" issue: "me" for "my" is sometimes used in writing as a form of eye dialect, defined here as





> *eye dialect*_
> n._
> The use of nonstandard spellings, such as _enuff_ for _enough_ or _wuz_ for _was,_ to indicate that the speaker is uneducated or using colloquial, dialectal, or nonstandard speech.
> 
> The  American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition  copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published  by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Another example of eye dialect is writing "sez" for "says".  "Sez" is a perfectly normal pronunciation of "says", but someone writing "sez" is indicating that the speaker is using a non-standard form of speech.

..........

PS. Just for completeness, it's probably worth mentioning that some varieties of BrE have another weak form of "my": /mə/.


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## Makamoe

Thanks for participating Loob and ewie, you've helped me a lot


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## Yuuichi Tam

Note: This newer discussion has been added to a previous thread.  Cagey, moderator 

I came across this sentence " I get this ache in me leg, ever since the accident."

This is from a teaching material for English learners. Does this phrase "in me leg" make sense or a typo of "in my leg"?


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## Franco-filly

It's either a typo or a representation of how some people pronounce "my" in casual conversation [- although I'd probably have written the latter as "mi leg" so I'll stick with the typo option.]


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## entangledbank

It's a common dialectal pronunciation. It shouldn't be used for teaching _standard_ English.


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## heypresto

If it's in some teaching material it's probably a typo.

But, in some parts of the UK, you'll quite frequently hear 'me' instead of 'my'.

And quite often when we say 'my' quickly in the middle of a sentence, it might sound like 'me'.


Cross-posted.


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## DonnyB

No, it's not a typo: it's an accurate copy of a sentence from the book "Tyler: His Story" (Time Chronicles) by Roderick Hunt.

It reflects the way that some BE speakers use "me" instead of the standard "my": it's semi-slang, but it's presumably just the way that particular character (Tyler) in the book talks.


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## heypresto

Thanks DonnyB, that makes sense.

It would have been helpful to have that information in the OP.


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## Yuuichi Tam

Thank you for your helpful answers. I got it.


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## Andygc

DonnyB said:


> : it's semi-slang,


Perhaps it might be more accurate to have said that it's normal in some English dialects, rather than calling it a form of 'slang'. (See also post #3)


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## kentix

It's the way some old-timers in old American movies talk, too. Maybe it has died out here.


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## velisarius

See also this discussion:
< Threads merged.  Thank you, Cagey >

It's so widely-used in the UK that I wouldn't call it "dialect". I'd say it's "colloquial", or "non-standard" when written down.


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## Hermione Golightly

This is a  graduated series of 'readers' for native English speaking children learning to read. They aren't learning to speak English.
We quite often use 'me' instead of 'my' in a sort of comical style affecting a rustic style of speech.


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## Keith Bradford

Franco-filly said:


> ... I'd probably have written the latter as "mi leg" ...]



In Early Modern English the standard pronunciation of *my *was /mǝɪ/ but also /mɪ/ when unstressed.*  That hasn't changed in 400 years, and is what's being represented here.  Different writers use _me _or _mi _to represent it.

* Source: David Crystal: _The Oxford Dictionary of Original Shakespearean Pronunciation_


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