# Hindi: Ashram



## Lucibelle

Hi!
This question has begun in the English forum, because I need to undestand what people in India understand under "ashram" and we decided that in this forum here I might get with a better answer. In the novel I am translating there is a talk about an ashram in Mumbai; it is however not a place for espiritual retreat or something like that, but a care center for girls that have been trafficked and rescued. On the other side, it is not related with hinduism since the managers of this ashram are nuns. It is a big place, with gardens, rooms, school and even a delivery room...  
My question is if this author (an american one) has used the word as a literary licence or it is indeed used as such for this charitable organizations. 
Any help will be welcomed.
Thanks in advance.


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## Qureshpor

Lucibelle said:


> Hi!
> This question has begun in the English forum, because I need to undestand what people in India understand under "ashram" and we decided that in this forum here I might get with a better answer. In the novel I am translating there is a talk about an ashram in Mumbai; it is however not a place for espiritual retreat or something like that, but a care center for girls that have been trafficked and rescued. On the other side, it is not related with hinduism since the managers of this ashram are nuns. It is a big place, with gardens, rooms, school and even a delivery room...
> My question is if this author (an american one) has used the word as a literary licence or it is indeed used as such for this charitable organizations.
> Any help will be welcomed.
> Thanks in advance.




I would agree with your conclusions. An "aashram" is a place where support is provided to people, in this case girls. The modern day Urdu/Hindi equivalent is "aasraa" and there is one in my town, called aasraa for women who are victims of domestic violence.


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## Lucibelle

Would you say then that ashram is an Indian "care center"? (Please, excuse the simplification, I see it is more than this in it, but it is only in order to clarify it to me)
Thanks


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## Qureshpor

Lucibelle said:


> Would you say then that ashram is an Indian "care center"? (Please, excuse the simplification, I see it is more than this in it, but it is only in order to clarify it to me)
> Thanks




Lucibelle, it might be beneficial to wait for further input from forum members. This is one definion that I found on the net.

ashram [ˈæʃrəm ˈɑːʃ-]n

*1.* (Non-Christian Religions / Hinduism) a religious retreat or community where a Hindu holy man lives
*2.* a house that provides accommodation for destitute people[from Sanskrit _āśrama,_ from _ā-_ near + _śrama_ religious exertion]


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## rahulbemba

Lucibelle said:


> Hi!
> This question has begun in the English forum, because I need to undestand what people in India understand under "ashram" and we decided that in this forum here I might get with a better answer. In the novel I am translating there is a talk about an ashram in Mumbai; it is however not a place for espiritual retreat or something like that, but a care center for girls that have been trafficked and rescued. On the other side, it is not related with hinduism since the managers of this ashram are nuns. It is a big place, with gardens, rooms, school and even a delivery room...
> My question is if this author (an american one) has used the word as a literary licence or it is indeed used as such for this charitable organizations.
> Any help will be welcomed.
> Thanks in advance.



In general Christian organizations choose to use "center" for such a place and not "aashram" because aashram has connotations with Hindu organizations (not religious necessarily; it can be social also). But people differ in opinion and if someone has used this term for a christian organisation or a social one supported by them, then I don't think many will raise any objections...


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## drkpp

The original word in Sanskrit Ashram [आश्रम] meant 
'a place for ascetics where they practice religious penance [tapaH - तपः]'
But in Hindi, the word is commonly used to mean 
'a place of refuge' as in वृद्धाश्रम [a place of refuge for elderly people]
It does not necessarily have religious connotations.


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## rahulbemba

I agree about the actual meaning of Ashram, but I think "a place of refuge" is best represented in "Ashray" rather than in "ashram".

From ancient times, sages and rishis used to establish ashrams to impart education to their disciples. I don't know if there was any other term for their establishment. 

"Ashray" best means a house, but it is closer to being a "refuge". The term "aashrit" would come close to it, meaning one who is seeking or got a refuge. 

The terms like vriddhashram perhaps came up because old people spend their remaining years of life remembering God or practicing piousness. 

For terms like Sudhar Grih (for jail) or for many other related terms, "grih" or "ashray" are used and not "ashram"..

Even the right term is "grihastha ashram", for married life, and brahmcharya ashram for unmarried student life. Because the four phases of life are seen as in connected with ideal life as prescribed in the Hindu scriptures. So I think the word ashram has a connection (and hence connotation) of association with Hinduism...


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## drkpp

आश्रित = refugee/one who has taken refuge
आश्रय = refuge
आश्रम = place of refuge
The words like गृहस्थाश्रम [grihasthaashrama] were coined 
because it is one particular phase in a person's life where
he becomes गृहस्थ i.e. family man and takes refuge in his home.
The 4 ashramas described have their own place of refuge. 
More information is available here and here.


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## rahulbemba

I agree about the meaning of ashrit and ashray, but I don't know why  should ashram be defined like "place of refuge" with the negative  connotations with the word refuge. Refuge means "1. Protection  or shelter, as from danger or hardship. 2. A place  providing  protection or shelter." In ashram what are we getting protection from?  Like in "Grihastha ashram", what are we getting protection from in grihastha ashram? I think nothing. Ashram in this sense can only be defined as a home. 

But I will list the dictionary meanings of ashram:

--

ash·ram    [ahsh-ruhm] 
noun
1. a secluded building, often the residence of a guru, used for religious retreat or instruction in Hinduism.
2. the persons instructed there.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ashram

--

Definition of ASHRAM

1 : a secluded dwelling of a Hindu sage; also : the group of disciples instructed there
2 : a religious retreat 

Origin of ASHRAM

Sanskrit āśrama, from śrama religious exercise

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ashram

--

ashram [ˈæʃrəm ˈɑːʃ-]
n

1. (Non-Christian Religions / Hinduism) a religious retreat or community where a Hindu holy man lives

2. a house that provides accommodation for destitute people
[from Sanskrit āśrama, from ā- near + śrama religious exertion]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ashram

--

ASHRAM<===> प्रार्थना स्थल (pr. \\prarthana sthal \\ )[Noun]

Example:The saint had an ashram on teh hill top.

http://dict.hinkhoj.com/words/meaning-of-ASHRAM-in-hindi.html

--

The dictionaries make it very clear that ashram is connected to Hinduism. There is no penalty to use it in literal terms for "a house", but in its original and apt meaning, it is only connected to Hinduism.


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## greatbear

By your statements, I assume that you would say that any Sanskrit word is associated with Hinduism? (I would not go into, since it's not meant to be discussed here, that you probably don't even know that Hinduism is not even an ism, so to use the word itself shows your little understanding of Hindus or the influence of the Western definitions on you.) It's understandable now why some of the members on this forum feel Sanskrit words to have religious overtones.
Refuge has no negative connotations first of all; besides, one of your own given definitions for ashram, "a house that provides accommodation for destitute people", corresponds with the definition of the word refuge.


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## Lucibelle

Thanks a lot for this interesting "chat" about an ashram in India. In the text I am translating it is now clear that is a "place for refuge", in this case two orphan girls. Thanks again all of you for the links and highly interesting inputs.


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## Qureshpor

drkpp said:


> आश्रित = refugee/one who has taken refuge
> आश्रय = refuge





On a slight tangent, I wonder if the above Sanskrit words are in any way connected with the Persian "saraa" or "saraay" (?)

P سرا _sarā_ [or _sarāʼe_; old P. _śarāi_; Zend _thrāiti_, rt. _thrā_ = S. त्रा], s.f. House, mansion, palace; temporary home  for travellers, caravansary, *inn;* 

In the subcontinent, there were "saraays" where travellers could find food and shelter for the night. I know of at least one such place called "saraae 3aalamgiir".


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## tonyspeed

Since aashram is only associated with Hinduism according to certain claims, it is interesting to read about the so-called  Christian ashram movement.


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## greatbear

tonyspeed said:


> Since aashram is only associated with Hinduism according to certain claims, it is interesting to read about the so-called  Christian ashram movement.



Did you even read the first line of the page you are quoting ("... the Hindu ashram model")?

Anyway, ashram is something Indic: to say it is related to Hinduism also demonstrates a gross ignorance of India and Hindus.


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## rahulbemba

greatbear said:


> By your statements, I assume that you would  say that any Sanskrit word is associated with Hinduism? (I would not go  into, since it's not meant to be discussed here, that you probably don't  even know that Hinduism is not even an ism, so to use the word itself  shows your little understanding of Hindus or the influence of the  Western definitions on you.) It's understandable now why some of the  members on this forum feel Sanskrit words to have religious overtones.
> Refuge has no negative connotations first of all; besides, one of your own given definitions for ashram, "a house that provides accommodation for destitute people", corresponds with the definition of the word refuge.



No, all Sanskrit words don't become automatically connected to Hinduism. But the word "ashram" is connected to Hinduism alone, when used in the correct sense. 

I know that there was no "name" for the religion in this land which we call India now, and there was no one man starting it, no single book guiding it, etc. So we can't judge Hinduism vis-a-vis other organized religions. Please don't comment that  I have "little understanding of Hindus" just because I don't fill 1000 pages on Hinduism here in this thread which is not related to this topic. 

If "refuge" means "1. Protection  or shelter, as from danger or hardship. 2. A place  providing  protection or shelter.", as the dictionary tells me, it has that kind of connotation because it is speaking about protection from danger or hardship, etc, something with which as I said Ashram is nowhere connected to. The main purpose of Ashrams was to facilitate tap, yagya and teachings of disciples, not to run away from some danger, etc. Like I asked, in "Grihastha Ashram" what is the danger or hardship from which we are taking a refuge? 

All dictionaries are telling that Ashram is connected to Hinduism. thefreedictionary.com is specifically telling that Ashram is related to "Non-Christian Religions / Hinduism", and yet if someone wants to make it appear not related to Hinduism, it would be against the facts; this is all I can say on this subject.


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## greatbear

rahulbemba said:


> No, all Sanskrit words don't become automatically connected to Hinduism. But the word "ashram" is connected to Hinduism alone, when used in the correct sense.
> 
> I know that there was no "name" for the religion in this land which we call India now, and there was no one man starting it, no single book guiding it, etc. So we can't judge Hinduism vis-a-vis other organized religions.



If you know that, then why are you buying into the Western concepts and dictionaries? Indic people were simply involved in the quest for truth over a long time, and the resultant hegemony of practices and traditions was confused as a religion by Westerners: more importantly, we don't have the concept of exclusivity, something ungraspable for many in the West. Unfortunately, the rise of Hindutva has now led to the same mind with blinkers on in India. Ashram is connected to ancient India, not to any invented word like Hinduism.



rahulbemba said:


> If "refuge" means "1. Protection  or shelter, as from danger or hardship. 2. A place  providing  protection or shelter.", as the dictionary tells me, it has that kind of connotation because it is speaking about protection from danger or hardship, etc, something with which as I said Ashram is nowhere connected to. The main purpose of Ashrams was to facilitate tap, yagya and teachings of disciples, not to run away from some danger, etc. Like I asked, in "Grihastha Ashram" what is the danger or hardship from which we are taking a refuge?



You are not probably well conversant with the concept of ashrams where the students studied; they were indeed a refuge from all material distractions and luxuries that could surround the students. They were simply what a commune-run boarding school would be in today's world. Grihastha ashram is an ashram, because it is like a lair in which man has taken refuge from his all other duties: a refuge from the kind of thoughts that led Siddhartha to become Buddha much before Vanprastha ashram. Refuge has a wider meaning than "sanctuary"; I think you are taking it in the narrow sense of the latter.


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## tonyspeed

greatbear said:


> Did you even read the first line of the page you are quoting ("... the Hindu ashram model")?
> 
> Anyway, ashram is something Indic: to say it is related to Hinduism also demonstrates a gross ignorance of India and Hindus.



I am not supporting the idea that aashram has no relation to Hinduism or Indic dharm. (Notice I said Indic Dharm because there are many concepts
modern reformed Hinduism has absorbed from other traditions and passed off as it's own inventions and traditions i.e. vegetarianism, use of murti, and non-violence.)
I am disputing the fact that people *avoid* the term because of such association.

But what I can say on the same lines of your argument is that Sanskrit has taken on a religious connotation in modern India since for
all purposes Sanskrit has been a semi-dead language from the time Classical Sanskrit was invented. In Vedic Sanskrit the term aashram,
if it existed, would have just meant a place of refuge with no religious ties. I think this is the point you are making. Artificial languages are
always somewhat tied to the areas in which they are used, and in this case, Sanskrit has not been tied to everyday life for quite some time (at least in colloquial Hindi).
In the same way, Latin is tied to science in a way Vulgar Latin was not. So conceptually, Sanskrit is not tied to any dharm but convincing the aam aadmi
of this is an uphill battle.


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## rahulbemba

greatbear said:


> If you know that, then why are you buying into the Western concepts and dictionaries? Indic people were simply involved in the quest for truth over a long time, and the resultant hegemony of practices and traditions was confused as a religion by Westerners: more importantly, we don't have the concept of exclusivity, something ungraspable for many in the West. Unfortunately, the rise of Hindutva has now led to the same mind with blinkers on in India. Ashram is connected to ancient India, not to any invented word like Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> You are not probably well conversant with the concept of ashrams where the students studied; they were indeed a refuge from all material distractions and luxuries that could surround the students. They were simply what a commune-run boarding school would be in today's world. Grihastha ashram is an ashram, because it is like a lair in which man has taken refuge from his all other duties: a refuge from the kind of thoughts that led Siddhartha to become Buddha much before Vanprastha ashram. Refuge has a wider meaning than "sanctuary"; I think you are taking it in the narrow sense of the latter.



You have now explained it very well and I agree with many things you say here. Thanks a lot for this.

So you say Ashrams were places where students studied. But study of the Vedas was an essential part in the Ashrams, no matter what other things they did there - I hope you would agree with this; and if study of the Vedas were being done, I am saying that it implies that Ashrams are Hindu concept. Even if Sandipani Rishi would establish an ashram to impart weapon training during Dwapar Yuga, study of Vedas would be essential part. 

The term ashram has come from the Sanskrit word "shram" meaning labor. We should understand that this "labor" means only "religious labor". Otherwise the repercussions would be disturbing. If a place where shram/labour is done can be called Ashram, then tomorrow someone will say that all our factories and sweatshops are Ashrams. Nothing can be far from the truth. Therefore, this shram/labor was intended to be meant only religious labor (religious of course indicates towards Hinduism - I don't want to get entangled into names/tags but I am sure people understand what Hinduism means). 

Next, your definition of "refuge" to include "running away from material distractions" is itself a religious (Hinduism) definition. If we live in normal life, we won't say that there is any need to run away or avoid material wealth and we won't call it distraction. Only religion (Hinduism in this case) shows the concept that material wealth is a distraction and your true path is to realize the divine within you. Agree? This is why this whole concept is a religious concept. I only said it is a Hindu concept because in this context, this is what stands for religion.

For Grihastha Ashram meaning "a lair in which man has taken refuge from his all other duties: a refuge  from the kind of thoughts that led Siddhartha to become Buddha..." I don't understand it. I think instead of taking a refuge from all other duties, people take all whole lot of duties only because they enter Grihastha Ashram. Before Grihastha Ashram, we won't have a wife and children, and any such responsibility towards them. Only because we enter Grihastha Ashram, do we become a pursuer of materialism. Before Grihastha Ashram, we were in Brahmcharya Ashram - where we were closer to the God and away from all materialism. So I think an explanation that Grihastha Ashram is a refuge - is not evident or well explained here. In fact, the next Ashram, Vanaprastha ashram is a refuge from the duties of grihastha ashram. What do you say on this?


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## greatbear

And how _religious labor_, if no such word like religion really existed or exists in India? What "religious labor" is there in learning how to use weapons? If material wealth is nothing but a distraction, then why to dedicate 25 years of your Grihastha ashrama life to it? Don't try to put words in my mouth: when did I say "running away from"? It is this so-called Hinduism, this modern hotch-potch, that keeps on trying to run away from "material" things: our bodies are material! Material is as much a part of this universe, and as important, as non-material: it is not something dirty to "run away from".
And why would you not leave like Siddhartha when 25 or even younger, in search of truth? Why would someone stupidly raise a family, forgetting his quest for answers? Where did you come up with, Brahmcharya ashram is when "we are closer to God"?!

I would anyway not respond further, since the argument is now in the realm of religion, but you should start learning and thinking about what's being Hindu.


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## greatbear

By the way, more related to the thread topic, the word "anathashram" is a common word for orphanage in India: there should be no doubt after that, that the word should not be necessarily linked to "Hinduism".


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## rahulbemba

greatbear said:


> And how religious labor, if no such word like religion really existed or exists in India?



I asked you not to go too much after the words! Do you mean to say that religion didn't exist in India? What a loss of understanding! 



greatbear said:


> What "religious labor" is there in learning how to use weapons?



I said originally "Even if Sandipani Rishi would establish an ashram to impart weapon training during Dwapar Yuga, study of Vedas would be essential part." (of the ashrams). Religious teachings - it means in the ashram's context "learning of the Vedas" - was an essential part of any ashram, no matter what other teachings were being done there. 



greatbear said:


> you should start learning and thinking about what's being Hindu.



This suggestion is off-topic and I will ignore it.



greatbear said:


> the word "anathashram" is a common word for orphanage in India: there should be no doubt after that, that the word should not be necessarily linked to "Hinduism".



I had explained earlier, why such words were "invented". anaath people / boys and kids or old age people are expected to be protected by "religious" structures because otherwise society would not in general care for them. This is why, to given their protection a religious touch, such words were invented, with essentially including the term "ashram" which is a Hindu concept. 

I don't know why should we ignore what all dictionaries tell, just because you feel like debating? Your ignoring of dictionary meanings, which I cared to post links of, is blatantly insensitive and even blind. 

Please read my post#9, go through all the links to verify and educate yourself.


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