# Te me recomienda para el puesto



## Pitt

Hola a todos:

Quisiera saber si la frase _Te me recomienda para el puesto_ es ambigua:

_1. He/She recommends you to me for the job._
_2. He/She recommends me to you for the job._

Saludos


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## Gris

Hola:

La frase: _Te me recomienda para el puesto _es incorrecta. 

Si quieres decir:
_1. He/She recommends you to me for the job._
Entonces dices: Él/Ella te recomienda para el puesto.

_2. He/She recommends me to you for the job._
Entonces dices: Él/ella me recomienda para el puesto.


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> Hola a todos:
> 
> Quisiera saber si la frase _Te me recomienda para el puesto_ es ambigua:
> 
> _1. He/She recommends you to me for the job._
> _2. He/She recommends me to you for the job._
> 
> Saludos


It is correct, but ambiguous. It would even be hard to get to know what you meant. Possibly, after thinking for a while, I'd understand, if said by me "El me recomienda a tí (OD) a mí (OI)". If said by  you, then the other way. Otherwise: AMBIGUOUS.
Te recomienda a mí. ¿?
Me recomienda a tí.¿?
Te me recomienda.¿¿¿???
Yo soy recomendado a tí por él.
Tu eres recomendado a mí por él.


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## Pitt

Creo que en este caso la frase no es ambigua:

_He/She recommends me to you >_
_Me recomienda a ti._

_He/She recommends you to me:_
_Te recomienda a mí._

¿Es correcto así?


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## ehpb

A mí me suena más natural decir:
"Me recomienda para el puesto de trabajo" o "Vengo recomendado por él para el puesto de trabajo".
Saludos


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## capitas

ehpb said:


> A mí me suena más natural decir:
> "Me recomienda para el puesto de trabajo" o "Vengo recomendado por él para el puesto de trabajo".
> Saludos


Pitt. 
I think we are splitting hairs with it. 
I agree with  ehpb; it is more natural (Te me recomienda is "unnatural").


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## Peterdg

Pitt,

In the case of "te me", the convention (_se prefiere la interpretación_) is that "te" is accusative and "me" is dative (NGLE: 16.4.2c). They say that it has a low occurrence and that generally, the construction is avoided.


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## manxo

Te me recomienda para el puesto. Ese "te" es un dativo de interés; se usa para intensificar el acercamiento al interlocutor, pero no tiene ningún significado real. La frase es igual que si dijese: Me recomienda para el puesto.


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## hosec

manxo said:


> La frase es igual que si dijese: Me recomienda para el puesto.


 

No necesariamente: yo había interpretado que el recomendado era la 2ª persona ( y eso se desprende de la entrada de Peterdg, en la que cita la NGLE)


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## manxo

hosec said:


> No necesariamente: yo había interpretado que el recomendado era la 2ª persona ( y eso se desprende de la entrada de Peterdg, en la que cita la NGLE)


Tienes razón, depende del contexto. Podría ser que el emisor tenga por receptor a la persona a la que va recomendado; sin embargo, si es así, suena raro que esté hablando con tanta confianza con él.


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## Pitt

¡Muchas gracias! Otro intento:

_He recommends me to you >_
_Él me recomienda a ti._

_He recommends her  to me >_
_Él me la  recomienda._

¿Estoy en lo cierto?


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> ¡Muchas gracias! Otro intento:
> 
> _He recommends me to you >   me OD, to you OI_
> _Él me recomienda a ti.   AMBIGUOUS_
> 
> _He recommends her to me >_
> _Él me la recomienda. LA OD   ME OI  (Except error LAISMO)_
> 
> ¿Estoy en lo cierto?


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## blasita

> A mí me suena más natural decir:
> "Me recomienda para el puesto de trabajo" o "Vengo recomendado por él para el puesto de trabajo".


  Y a mí también, ehpb. Saludos.


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## Pitt

_He recommends me to you > me OD, to you OI
Él me recomienda a ti. AMBIGUOUS_

Estoy de acuerdo:
_He recommends me *to you*._
me = OD, to you = OI

Pero creo que esta frase no es ambigua:
_Él me recomienda *a ti.*_
me = OD, a ti = OI

En mi opinión la frase inglesa y española  tienen la misma estructura gramatical.


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## Peterdg

Pitt said:


> Pero creo que esta frase no es ambigua:
> _Él me recomienda *a ti.*_
> me = OD, a ti = OI
> 
> En mi opinión la frase inglesa y española tienen la misma estructura gramatical.


Sí, es ambiguo: "a ti" también puede ser OD (con una "a" personal) y "me" OI.


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## roanheads

Pitt,
Este ejemplo tiene buena pinta, ¿no ?
"Ay, Dios,que te me lo llevaste cuando más falta me hacía"---------------


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## manxo

roanheads said:


> Pitt,
> Este ejemplo tiene buena pinta, ¿no ?
> "Ay, Dios,que te me lo llevaste cuando más falta me hacía"---------------


Otra vez dativo de interés (en este caso, me). Enfatiza la participación afectiva del hablante, pero se puede eliminar sin que cambie el sentido.


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## roanheads

De acuerdo,
"----   you took him away from me when I needed him most.


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## la_machy

Yo diría,

''(Ella/El) te recomienda/recomendó _conmigo_ para el puesto xxx''

''(Ella/El) me recomienda/recomendó contigo para el puesto xxx''. 


Saludos


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> _He recommends me to you > me OD, to you OI_
> _Él me recomienda a ti. AMBIGUOUS_
> 
> Estoy de acuerdo:
> _He recommends me *to you*._
> me = OD, to you = OI
> 
> Pero creo que esta frase no es ambigua:
> _Él me recomienda *a ti.*_
> me = OD, a ti = OI
> 
> En mi opinión la frase inglesa y española tienen la misma estructura gramatical.


In fact the grammar structure is the same, but not the rules for OD/OI.
In English, pronoun alone=me= OD  to+pronoun OI. Then: recommend me to you = me OD  to you OI. When both appear together The OD is expressed by just the pronoun, and the OI with to+ pronoun.

In Spanish a+pronoun  and just pronoun (me recomendó a tí/te recomendó a mí) make no difference at all (both senses are possible), so you cannot know which is what: OD/OI.


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## Pitt

capitas said:


> In fact the grammar structure is the same, but not the rules for OD/OI.
> In English, pronoun alone=me= OD to+pronoun OI. Then: recommend me to you = me OD to you OI. When both appear together The OD is expressed by just the pronoun, and the OI with to+ pronoun.
> 
> In Spanish a+pronoun and just pronoun (me recomendó a tí/te recomendó a mí) make no difference at all (both senses are possible), so you cannot know which is what: OD/OI.


 
Thanks for the explanation! The sentece _Él me recomienda a ti_ is ambiguous. I think only the context solves the problem. But how can I avoid the ambiguity? Is the passive form possible?


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> Thanks for the explanation! The sentece _Él me recomienda a ti_ is ambiguous. I think only the context solves the problem. But how can I avoid the ambiguity? Is the passive form possible?


 
I think I mentioned it some threads ago: Passive voice is the way to clear up ambiguity:
OD= SUBJECT
SUBJECT= BY AGENT
OI= OI 
Yo soy recomendado a tí por él. Te (OI) me (OD) recomendó.
Tú eres recomendado a mí por él. Te (OD) me (OI) recomendó


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## Pitt

capitas said:


> I think I mentioned it some threads ago: Passive voice is the way to clear up ambiguity:
> OD= SUBJECT
> SUBJECT= BY AGENT
> OI= OI
> Yo soy recomendado a tí por él. Te (OI) me (OD) recomendó.
> Tú eres recomendado a mí por él. Te (OD) me (OI) recomendó


 
Thanks for the examples! But I think in the sentence _Me recomendó a ti_ the first pronoun *me* normally is considered as the direct object and the second pronoun *a ti* as the indirect object, isn't it?.


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> Thanks for the examples! But I think in the sentence _Me recomendó a ti_ the first pronoun *me* normally is considered as the direct object and the second pronoun *a ti* as the indirect object, isn't it?.


I don't think so. It is what RAE says to be more usual, but not for me.
Let's suppose you are recommended to me by a friend of us for a job. You firmly but kindly answer not, and you tell him that you know the suitable person for the job. Then our mutual friend says.
"Pero  nuestro amigo me (OI) recomendó a tí (OD), no a un amigo tuyo" .
Your "rule" is possibly the most likely way you can find it, but if you take my advice, I WOULD NOT RELY IN THAT RULE.


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## Pitt

capitas said:


> I don't think so. It is what RAE says to be more usual, but not for me.
> Let's suppose you are recommended to me by a friend of us for a job. You firmly but kindly answer not, and you tell him that you know the suitable person for the job. Then our mutual friend says.
> "Pero nuestro amigo me (OI) recomendó a tí (OD), no a un amigo tuyo" .
> Your "rule" is possibly the most likely way you can find it, but if you take my advice, I WOULD NOT RELY IN THAT RULE.


 
You are right! Therefore in this case both sentences are possible:
_Nuestro amigo me (OI) recomendó a ti (OD)._
_Nuestro amigo me (OI) te (OD) recomendó. _

¿Is this correct?


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> You are right! Therefore in this case both sentences are possible:
> _Nuestro amigo me (OI or OD) recomendó a ti (OD or OI)._
> _Nuestro amigo me (OI or OD) te (OD or OI) recomendó. _
> 
> ¿Is this correct?


The first one is ambiguous and correct.
The second one is ambiguous and ¿awkward, at least? I would not say it.


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## Pitt

_Nuestro amigo *te me* recomendó_ = correct and ambiguous
The order *te me* (2nd - 1st person) is correct.

_Nuestro amigo *me te* recomendó_ = incorrect
The order *me te* (1st - 2nd person) in any case is incorrect.

Is my analysis correct?


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## roanheads

The order te me is correct.


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## capitas

Pitt said:


> _Nuestro amigo *te me* recomendó_ = correct and ambiguous
> The order *te me* (2nd - 1st person) is correct.
> 
> _Nuestro amigo *me te* recomendó_ = incorrect
> The order *me te* (1st - 2nd person) in any case is incorrect.
> 
> Is my analysis correct?


 


capitas said:


> The first one is ambiguous and correct.
> The second one (me te eecomendaste) is ambiguous and ¿awkward, at least? I would not say it.


Combinations "Me te"  "no son correctas" according to RAE.


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## Istriano

This is one of the most complicated features of Spanish syntax.

Unfortunately, students are confronted with this use in 1st lesson of their studies:
''Te presento a mi amiga X''

but no explanation is given.
I think the sentences of this type should be avoided with beginners, because they may come to an incorrect conclusion if this subject is not properly explained:
_OD, OI, OD and OI  together, ambiguous use, redundancy, inversion, personal a
_ 
(It's easier in CostaRican Spanish* because they never use tú, but informal Usted; or in Brazilian Portuguese:_ Ele recomenda ela para mim_ = He recommends her to me).

_*Nuestro amigo *se lo* recomendó a Usted._


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## Pitt

Istriano said:


> This is one of the most complicated features of Spanish syntax.
> 
> Unfortunately, students are confronted with this use in 1st lesson of their studies:
> ''Te presento a mi amiga X''


 
En mi opinion the sentence _Te presento a mi amiga X_ is ambiguous:

_Te (CI) presento a mi amiga X (CD) >_
_Te (CI) la (CD) presento._

_Te (CD) presento a mi amiga X (CI) >_
_Te (CD) presento a ella (CI)._

I think* a ella* in any case is an indirect object, not a direct object.

Do you agree with me?


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## kalamazoo

A fascinating discussion, because in this case the English is not at all ambiguous.Is it possible to convey the same idea in Spanish by saying something like "He suggested that I contact you and recommended me for the job" to avoid the whole problem?


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## Martelis

_Él me recomienda *a ti.....

*_I can't help you with the grammar explanation...but I can tell you that it sounds weird to me. I'd never said that with these words because it's an unnatural structure.

In my opinion: Él te ha recomendado/ Él te recomienda

You can obviate the "me" because you are the speaker.


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