# Iraqi Arabic: بغيت



## Andrew___

I have heard in Iraqi "baghayt" (بغيت).

The context seems to have been "I have read".

Is this the correct meaning?  I can't remember anything more about the context.

Many thanks.


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## the basketball player

Hi Andrew,
Well, I'm Iraqi but I have never heard of such word in our dialect, we never use such word, I only hear it in other neighboring countries such as Kuwait & it means I wanted "أردت".
Hope this will help you & if you remember the context I would be more helpful.
Regards. 
 ​


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## WadiH

My exposure to Iraqi Arabic is very limited so I don't know if this word is used in Iraq.  However, in the Arabian Peninsula, بغيت is the past form of أبغى/أبي ("I want").

For example:
ما بغيت أزعجك ("I didn't want to bother you")

It can also mean "almost:"

بغيت أطيح ("I almost fell")


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## Mahaodeh

I have to agree with the basketball player, I have never heard an Iraqi use it, it sounds very "khaliiji" 

However, in some limited places in southern Iraq (as well as, up to my knowledge, in Kuwait and A7waaz), they may replace the qaaf with a ghaain and vice versa. So if that person is from such a place he may have meant "بقيت أقرا" = I continued to read.


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## Andrew___

Many thanks everyone.

So to say "I read the book" in Iraqi, do I simply say:  "qarayt al kitaab"?

With Kindest Regards,
Andrew


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## Finland

Hello!



Andrew___ said:


> So to say "I read the book" in Iraqi, do I simply say: "qarayt al kitaab"?


 
At least my Iraqi friends here in Finland would pronounce this "aani gareet il iktaab", but obviously in a country as big as Iraq there is quite a bit of variation.

Best wishes and كل عام وانتم بخير to those who celebrate العيد!

S


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## the basketball player

Andrew___ said:


> So to say "I read the book" in Iraqi, do I simply say: "qarayt al kitaab"?


Hello Andrew,
Yes, that's right, you simply say قريت الكتاب
Regards.


Finland said:


> At least my Iraqi friends here in Finland would pronounce this "aani gareet il iktaab", but obviously in a country as big as Iraq there is quite a bit of variation.


Hello Finland,
Well, we don't say gareet, we say it with the letter ق,I mean we say qareet il-kitab.
Thanks for the wishes.
Regards.


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## Mahaodeh

the basketball player said:


> Well, we don't say gareet, we say it with the letter ق,I mean we say qareet il-kitab.


 
I must agree with this, I've never heard an Iraqi say gereet; it's always qereet (by the way, the first vowel is not a complete fat7a, it's somewhere between a fat7a and a kasra that's why I prefer to write it with an e).


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## the basketball player

Hello Mahaodeh,
I agree with this "qereet" would be much better.
Happy Eid for all.
Regards.


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## Hemza

Wadi Hanifa said:


> It can also mean "almost:"
> 
> بغيت أطيح ("I almost fell")


It's only after reading your post that came to my mind that it is used a loooot with this meaning in Morocco too (Western Algeria too I think) .
بغيت نطيح (I almost/was about to fell) is the way your sentence would be said. Also, a pretty common expression is بغيت نموت  when someone is about exposed to hard conditions. People also use it with كان+اسم الفاعل which gives كنت باغي/كان باغي etc.


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## Ihsiin

I have heard أبغي used in Iraqi poetry but never in normal speech.


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## Hemza

Something came to my mind: on this forum, I learnt somewhere that many Najdi tribes immigrated to Iraq more or less recently. If we suppose that بغى was a verb used by such tribes, how could it "disappear" now there are in Iraq? Or is there a factor I forgot in my calculation?


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## Ihsiin

Many tribes migrated to Iraq during the 18th and 19th centuries, so much so that some estimates suggest that in the early 19th century around 80% of the population of Iraq was nomadic. However, in the middle of the 19th century the Ottomans instituted a policy of tribal settlement, whereby tribes were incentivised to settle and urbanise. Cities such as Najaf and Hilla are heavily populated by tribes that 200 years ago were nomadic. All of this facilitated the development of a more contiguous souther Iraqi dialect which is primarily derived from the dialects of the settled tribes, but also urbanised insomuch as it received influence from the northern Iraqi and Levantine dialects, as well as other languages such as Turkish, Persian and English, not to mention the increasing influence of greater literacy in the form of classicisms.

In the case of بغى, I would assume this would have been more common in southern Iraqi earlier on, when the dialect more closely resembled those of the tribes who had settled there, but in the subsequent decades it has been replaced with راد. This is why we are more likely to find it used in poetry, since the poetic register tends to be more rural/nomadic/old fashioned. It wouldn't surprise me if the word was used in the area around Nasiriyah, for example, but I can't say I've ever heard an Iraqi use it normal speech.


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## Hemza

Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation .
In Morocco, the opposed phenomenon happened: urban راد and حب are today almost extinct (except amongst few old urban dwellers), the bedouin بغى (and its variation, بى) almost supplanted both while in Tunisia, it's (according to my modest knowledge) the urban حب which almost supplanted the bedouin بغى (and بى). In Algeria, you find both according to the area.


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## Mahaodeh

Ihsiin said:


> so much so that some estimates suggest that in the early 19th century around 80% of the population of Iraq was nomadic.



No way, that can't possibly be right! The population of Iraq in 1900 was 3 million, assuming it was one million in 1800, it doesn't seem to make sense that the cities, towns, and villages of Iraq all had only 200,000 people! I agree about the influx of Bedouin tribes, but the percentage does not seem to make sense. Besides, the population of Saudi Arabia at the time was even less than that of Iraq, if all of them would have moved to Iraq they would still be less than 50%. A considerably high percentage, yes, but not 80% - unless of course the source is saying that previously urbanised Iraqis became nomadic (also a possibility considering the political strife of Iraq since the fall of Baghdad in the 13th century).

Anyhow, this is not our issue. Our issue is the effect on language. You don't really need so much to have an impact since we are not changing the language, just impacting it. 20% would have a significant impact (I'm not saying this is how much they were).



Ihsiin said:


> All of this facilitated the development of a more contiguous souther Iraqi dialect which is primarily derived from the dialects of the settled tribes, but also urbanised insomuch as it received influence from the northern Iraqi and Levantine dialects,



Hmm, again, for impact of local Iraqi dialect to be strong, the numbers would have to be significant. Living way up in the north as your source claims doesn't seem to make sense, especially in the short period of time.

Of course I don't know the details of this. I know the history in the form of general incidents but not numbers and small details such as this, but they don't seem to make sense.



Ihsiin said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if the word was used in the area around Nasiriyah, for example, but I can't say I've ever heard an Iraqi use it normal speech.



I've heard يبى (originally يبغى), but in the area around Basra not Nasiriyah (technically, not too far apart though). Also, with poetry it depends on how old the poetry is, maybe it's a few hundred years old.


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## Ihsiin

Mahaodeh said:


> No way, that can't possibly be right! The population of Iraq in 1900 was 3 million, assuming it was one million in 1800, it doesn't seem to make sense that the cities, towns, and villages of Iraq all had only 200,000 people! I agree about the influx of Bedouin tribes, but the percentage does not seem to make sense. Besides, the population of Saudi Arabia at the time was even less than that of Iraq, if all of them would have moved to Iraq they would still be less than 50%. A considerably high percentage, yes, but not 80% - unless of course the source is saying that previously urbanised Iraqis became nomadic (also a possibility considering the political strife of Iraq since the fall of Baghdad in the 13th century).
> 
> Anyhow, this is not our issue. Our issue is the effect on language. You don't really need so much to have an impact since we are not changing the language, just impacting it. 20% would have a significant impact (I'm not saying this is how much they were).



I read the 80% figure in a book, but unfortunately I'm abroad right now and don't have access to my library. I can return in January with a source for that figure. I may be misremembering, of course, but I don't think I am.



> Hmm, again, for impact of local Iraqi dialect to be strong, the numbers would have to be significant. Living way up in the north as your source claims doesn't seem to make sense, especially in the short period of time.
> 
> Of course I don't know the details of this. I know the history in the form of general incidents but not numbers and small details such as this, but they don't seem to make sense.



Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean. When I speak of the Iraqi dialect I'm talking about the southern dialect - the way I see it is that this dialect is essentially a Bedouin dialect which has recently been influenced by the old urban dialect, not the other way around. When I said "influence from northern Iraqi" in my previous post, I should have rather said "influence from the urban dialects."


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## Hemza

Thank you both, your discussion is very interesting and I take note of what you both say because it helps to solve this mystery (well at least, it is for me).

I also thought that 80% of nomads was a very high rate yet I'm ignorant about this topic (Iraq's demographics) so I didn't dare to question it.


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## Slim86

Ihsiin said:


> Many tribes migrated to Iraq during the 18th and 19th centuries, so much so that some estimates suggest that in the early 19th century around 80% of the population of Iraq was nomadic. However, in the middle of the 19th century the Ottomans instituted a policy of tribal settlement, whereby tribes were incentivised to settle and urbanise. Cities such as Najaf and Hilla are heavily populated by tribes that 200 years ago were nomadic. All of this facilitated the development of a more contiguous souther Iraqi dialect which is primarily derived from the dialects of the settled tribes, but also urbanised insomuch as it received influence from the northern Iraqi and Levantine dialects, as well as other languages such as Turkish, Persian and English, not to mention the increasing influence of greater literacy in the form of classicisms.
> 
> In the case of بغى, I would assume this would have been more common in southern Iraqi earlier on, when the dialect more closely resembled those of the tribes who had settled there, but in the subsequent decades it has been replaced with راد. This is why we are more likely to find it used in poetry, since the poetic register tends to be more rural/nomadic/old fashioned. It wouldn't surprise me if the word was used in the area around Nasiriyah, for example, but I can't say I've ever heard an Iraqi use it normal speech.


*lol no.*

when you say southern iraqis, you have to explain which southern iraqis are?

we know there are arab tribes settled in southern Iraq at late time with the ottoman encourage, such as shammar, anza, tamim, bani lam and bani kaab ... ect

not all southern iraqis are descended from these tribes (10% at most), i have nothing against the arabs, but you give the opportunity to others to say that southern iraqis are illegal in southern iraq

anyway autosomal results showing southern iraqis are far away from bedouins

people in northern and central iraq also have bedouin dialects (except for mouslwis and tikritis) i don't know why you didn't mention them and focused on southern iraqis

many people in central iraq are descended from the circassians who were brought by ottomans as mamluks, as well the persian and azeri immigrants to karbala and najaf, not forgetting the purely bedouin tribes of western iraq such as dulaim and jabour ... ect

anyway the only ones who say ابي like gulf arabs instead of أريد are zubairis in southern basra and those came to basra at the end of 18th century


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## Hemza

Slim86 said:


> not all southern iraqis are descended from these tribes (10% at most), i have nothing against the arabs, but you give the opportunity to others to say that southern iraqis are illegal in southern iraq


ما حد أنكر بإن العراقيين الجنوبيين عراقيين أو قال عنهم ناس موجودين غير شرعيا. الحدود والدول جديدة ما عندها أكثر من مئة عام.
والعراقيين الجنوبيين عندهم امتداد مع سكان شمال الجزيرة وهذا أمر طبيعي حيث جيران. في ظني الأستاذ حسين ركز على الجنوب لأن جنوب العراق أكثر موضع في العراق مشارك ظواهر لغوية مع لهجات شمال الجزيرة وبما ان الفعل بغى مستخدم في لهجات نجد والخليج أول جزء من العراق يجي على البال هو جنوبه 


Slim86 said:


> Anyway the only ones who say ابي like gulf arabs instead of أريد are zubairis in southern basra and those came to basra at the end of 18th century


حياك الله على هذه المعلومة المفيدة. بغيت نعرف حد استخدام الفعل بغى. يعني لين الفعل مستخدم كلما تبعد شمالا عن نجد والحجاز والخليج


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## Slim86

Hemza said:


> ما حد أنكر بإن العراقيين الجنوبيين ماهم عراقيين أو قال عنهم ناس موجودين غير شرعيا. الحدود والدول جديدة ما عندها أكثر من مئة عام.
> والعراقيين الجنوبيين عندهم امتداد مع سكان شمال الجزيرة وهذا أمر طبيعي حيث جيران. في ظني الأستاذ حسين ركز على الجنوب لأن جنوب العراق أكثر موضع في العراق مشارك ظواهر لغوية مع لهجات شمال الجزيرة وبما ان الفعل بغى مستخدم في لهجات نجد والخليج أول جزء من العراق يجي على البال هو جنوبه
> 
> حياك الله على هذه المعلومة المفيدة. بغيت نعرف حد استخدام الفعل بغى. يعني لين الفعل مستخدم كلما تبعد شمالا عن نجد والحجاز والخليج




he was saying 80% of the southern iraqis are from the bedouin tribes and this is absolutely not true. the southern iraqis are far from bedouins and have nothing with them whether linguistically or culturally. if you want to know about bedouin dialects of iraq the closest people to arabian peninsula are the westerner iraqis and parts of the middle euphrates region they have a very close dialect to bedouins and seems a mixture of iraqi and bedouin dialects it's called (اللهجة الشاوية) or (اللسان البداوي).

likewise the zubair area in the south of basra they are najdi families migrated to basra in the 18th century and they are completely different from the southern iraqis. they made up a small minority in basra and most of them returned back to the gulf states after the discovery of oil and of course don't share the lineage with southern iraqis.

in past before of founding modern states of middle east the lifestyle of southern iraqis was the agriculture and were not nomads at all the ottoman feudal was control southern iraq.

the southern iraqis can be divided into two figures: bedouins who migrated with support of ottomans and eventually became farmers and the native inhabitants of southern iraq who were arabized over generations and they making up the majority.

many arab clans especially in the basra, amarah and nasiriyah can trace their ancestry to islamized mandaeans but they hide it because of fear, i'm personally one of them my ancestors were mandaeans who became muslims in 16th century.

therefore many southern iraqis share the same phenotype with mandaeans, and dna results showed many of them are genetically close to mandaeans but with marginal arab influence.

many people online claim we (southern iraqis) aren't native to (southern iraq) for hateful, racist and sectarian reasons.

in end i've never heard anyone say ابغى in southern iraq my entire life but we say "ود" in some cases instead of "اريد"


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## Hemza

Slim86 said:


> many people online claim we (southern iraqis) aren't native to (southern iraq) for hateful, racist and sectarian reasons.


الكلاب تنبح والقافلة تسير .
لا يعنيك. ترى فاين ما كنت على كوكبنا, تلقى هذا النوع من الناس. التجاهل (لا تدّيها فيهم كيف ما نقولوا في المغرب هههه) أحسن رد فعل. في جميع الأحوال ما نظن حد قصد يجرح شعور حد هنايا . هذا منتدى لغوي, ما حد يجبد موضوع الأعراق والطائفية الا في حالة التوضيح. بدو و فلاحين و مدنيين والى أخره كلكم عراقيين وهذا التنوع يشهد أن تاريخ العراق عريق وعظيم وثري.​


Slim86 said:


> in end i've never heard anyone say ابغى in southern iraq my entire life but we say "ود" in some cases instead of "اريد"


شكرا على المعلومة. أمر عجيب أن الفعل يبدو نادر في الشام والعراق مع أنها مناطق ممتدة وداخلة شمال الجزيرة (من حدودها الجنوبية) والفعل منتشر فيها (طبعا جانب طرق أخرى). كما قيل فوق ربما قد كان استعماله شائعا وقل مع مرور الوقت للأسباب المذكورة وهذا عكس ما وقع في المغرب.​


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## Slim86

Hemza said:


> شكرا على المعلومة. أمر عجيب أن الفعل يبدو نادر في الشام والعراق مع أنها مناطق ممتدة وداخلة شمال الجزيرة (من حدودها الجنوبية) والفعل منتشر فيها (طبعا جانب طرق أخرى). كما قيل فوق ريما اسعماله قد كان شائعا وقل مع مرور الوقت للأسباب المذكورة وهذا عكس ما وقع في المغرب.​


''ود'' is use a lot in kuwait, jordan and palestine although the levantine arabic use ''بد'' which is abbreviation for ''بود'' i heard baghdadi dialect use "مدي" but not sure it's still in use however in the northern of saudi arabia such as hafr al-batin they use ''اريد'' 

i'm sure if "بغيت" is in our southern dialect it will become "بقيت" because we flip the letter ghain (غ) to qaf (ق) in many cases.

hope this helped


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## Hemza

Slim86 said:


> i'm sure if "بغيت" is in our southern dialect it will become "بقيت" because we flip the letter ghain (غ) to qaf (ق) in many cases.
> 
> hope this helped


Thank you. The غ to ق shift may be due to bedouin influence? Because the same exact shift happens in some bedouin speaking areas of the Maghreb (and doesn't occur in rural/urban dialects) where the غ becomes ق (and you can hear استقلال but the speaker means استغلال and بقى instead of بغى ).


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## Slim86

Hemza said:


> The غ to ق shift may be due to bedouin influence?


yes this happens a lot for old people here but only the borrowed words from standard arabic (اغتصاد, غانون, غياس, تنسيغ, موسيغى, ثغافة)  the original words in mother tongue include the qaf are pronounce properly (قليل, قفل, قوانة, قفص, قيم, قديم, قصد, باقي, خلق, قسم) .

 should not confused between the (غ) to (ق) and (ق) to (غ)


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