# MSA: الذي and its variants



## 盲人瞎馬

Is it just me or written MSA doesn't use the relative pronoun الذي like/as often in other language? What is the work around to avoid using it?

Is there more than one way to say "This is the book which/that I wrote"?


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## Romeel

هذا الكتاب الذي كتبتهُ
هذا الكتاب كتبتهُ
هذا الكتاب أنا كتبتهُ


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## bearded

Perhaps also هذا الكتاب *و*أنا كتبتهُ ?


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## Romeel

هذا هو الكتاب وأنا كتبتهُ
هذا هو الكتاب وأنا قد كتبتهُ
أنا كتبتُ هذا الكتاب
... 
الاجتمالات لا حصر لها


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## WadiH

盲人瞎馬 said:


> Is there more than one way to say "This is the book which/that I wrote"?



هذا الكتاب الذي كتبت(ه)

Can't think of any other way of saying it that is an exact equivalent of your English phrase. You could say هذا كتابي (with كتاب here in the sense of 'book'), but it's ambiguous ('my book' as in my physical copy or ;my book' as in the book that I authored?).  ِAnother option would be هذا الكتاب مِن كتابتي, which literally means "this book is of my writing".

I think Arabic uses relative pronouns about as much as English, but some have claimed that Arabic doesn't make as much use of relative _clauses_.

If you omit 'book', a few other variations open up but a couple of them also involve relative pronouns:

هذا ما كتبت(ه) (the relative pronoun here is ما)
هذا الذي كتبت(ه)
هذا كتابي (with كتاب here in the sense of 'piece of writing)
هذا من كتابتي


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## 盲人瞎馬

اعتقال عميل أجنبي كان يخطط لاغتيال رئيس كازاخستان (فيديو )

Is كان serving the purpose of a relative pronoun here? There's also no word ending in an alif that would serve as the "object" of كان. This is really confusing.

Edit: does this sentence skip the relative pronoun altogether is using كان with a verb in the present tense in order to form the psat progressive form?  "Was planning"? So the relative pronoun was skipped altogether?

اعتقال عميل أجنبي كان يخطط = The arrest of a foreign agent (who) was planning


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## analeeh

The relative pronouns الذي, التي etc are only used with definite nouns. Otherwise a relative clause is not introduce by anything.


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## 盲人瞎馬

analeeh said:


> The relative pronouns الذي, التي etc are only used with definite nouns. Otherwise a relative clause is not introduce by anything.


Is that it? Does that apply to spoken Arabic and dialects too?


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,

I would say: هذا [هو] الكتاب الذي كتبته

The pronoun of separation [هو] is not mandatory but it allows to clarify, to specify that the word الكتاب is the predicate (khabar) of the sentence.

Without the pronoun of separation [هو] there are two* possible meanings:

1- This book that I wrote.
2- This is the book that I wrote.

In this case the n°1 is not a sentence, it is a phrase : the word الكتاب is badal of هذا  and الذي is an adjective (na'at) of الكتاب... There is no predicate (khabar)...

* EDIT : I just realized that there is a possible third meaning:

3- This book is the one I wrote.

In this case the word الكتاب is badal of هذا  and الذي is the predicate (khabar)...

For n°3, we can add a pronoun of separation [هو] to clarify, to specify that the word الذي is the predicate (khabar) of the sentence:
 هذا الكتاب [هو] الذي كتبته


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## 盲人瞎馬

Ibn Nacer said:


> For n°3, we can add a pronoun of separation [هو] to clarify, to specify that the word الذي is the predicate (khabar) of the sentence:
> هذا الكتاب [هو] الذي كتبته


Why do you need ه- at the end of كتبت if you've already specified كتاب?


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## WadiH

盲人瞎馬 said:


> Is that it? Does that apply to spoken Arabic and dialects too?



Yes and yes.


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## Ibn Nacer

盲人瞎馬 said:


> Why do you need ه- at the end of كتبت if you've already specified كتاب?


This pronoun is called الضمير العائد or الضمير الراجع 

See :
- What is aa'id got to do with sila mawsul
- The one


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## 盲人瞎馬

Thanks everyone for the help.


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## Ali Smith

盲人瞎馬 said:


> Why do you need ه- at the end of كتبت if you've already specified كتاب?


The pronoun is optional if it is the مفعول به of the صلة (relative clause). However, it is obligatory if it is not the مفعول به but something else. E.g.

He is the man who I met yesterday.
هو الرجل الذي لقيته أمس
or
هو الرجل الذي لقيت أمس

Here it is optional.

But it is obligatory in

He is the man we talked about.
هو الرجل الذي تكلمنا عنه


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> هو الرجل الذي لقيته أمس





Ali Smith said:


> هو الرجل الذي لقيت أمس


(هذا) هو الرجل الذي لقيت(ه) *بالأمس*
(هذا) هو الرجل الذي لقيت(ه)* أمسا*

It think the first is better than the second


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## Romeel

Romeel said:


> (هذا) هو الرجل الذي لقيت(ه) *بالأمس*
> (هذا) هو الرجل الذي لقيت(ه)* أمسا*
> 
> It think the first is better than the second


أعتقد أمس ممنوعة من الصرف


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## WadiH

أمسِ مبني على الكسر في محل نصب ظرف زمان (أو في محل نصب مفعول فيه).


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