# Nunc / "nunca" (Spanish)



## Dueño de Brucéfalo

Good evening, one and all. I'm 17, and by now I consider myself nearly fluent in Spanish, with a very basic proactive understanding of Latin. Just a few weeks ago, the choir I sing in began rehearsing an arrangement of Franz Biebl's "Ave Maria", and I was confused by the last couple lines of the Latin text:

Sancta Maria, mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, _nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.

_The meaning of the phrase in italics, is of course "_now and in the hour of our death"._ This brings me to my question:

Those of you familiar with Spanish will know that the most common Spanish word for "never" is "nunca". Since Spanish is a language clearly traceable back to the Latin in which the Ave Maria was written, I find it difficult to believe that "nunca" is not related somehow to the Latin "nunc". So how is it that these two words have nearly opposite meanings?

I hope I made this clear enough. Thank you very much for your help.


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## MarcB

*nunca**.*
 (Del lat. _nunquam_)


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## wonderment

Hi Dueño: It may help you to know that _nunca_ is derived from Latin _nunquam_ (_ne unquam_ = not ever = never), not _nunc_ (now). Anyhow, beware of words (within a language and across different languages) that look alike but are not related in any way.


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## Dueño de Brucéfalo

wonderment said:


> Hi Dueño: It may help you to know that _nunca_ is derived from Latin _nunquam_ (_ne unquam_ = not ever = never), not _nunc_ (now). Anyhow, beware of words (within a language and across different languages) that look alike but are not related in any way.



If that's the case, wonderment, what is the origin of Spanish _ahora_ and Portuguese  _agora _and Italian _ora_? I suppose it would literally mean "at [this] hour".


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## Outsider

Dueño de Brucéfalo said:


> I suppose it would literally mean "at [this] hour".


Yes, that's where they ultimately come from. I think the Latin word _nunc_ was lost in most Romance languages. You can check such things in the dictionary, by the way.


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## Probo

Salue: _Ahora_ (spanish), _Agora _(portuguese and galician) come from *Hac hora* or (some people thing) *Ad horam*. I prefer the first one. Vt ualeas.


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## wonderment

Probo said:


> Salue: _Ahora_ (spanish), _Agora _(portuguese and galician) come from *Hac hora* or (some people thing) *Ad horam*. I prefer the first one. Vt ualeas.



And in Italian, _ora_ is derived directly from the ablative case of Latin _hora_ (at this time = now). (Garganzi is a wonderful online Italian dictionary with etymologies.) Also in the same Indo-European family, Ancient Greek νυν (nun, now) --> Modern Greek τώρα (tora > τῇ ὥρᾳ, at this time, now).


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## cassandradixit

Hola, D. de B.:

no quiero agregar nada de importancia, pues todo lo más útil, y correcto, ya ha sido dicho sobre las derivaciones históricas de los términos en cuestión.

Pero respecto de tu sensación de sorpresa ante la posibilidad de que una palabra hubiese derivado en otra de significado totalmente opuesto, te cuento que en efecto se ha dado ese fenómeno en algunas palabras. En este momento se me ocurre sólo una, pero sé que hay varias más.

Por ejemplo, "nimius", que en latín significa "bastante, demasiado", en castellano "nimio", "nimiedad" pasó a significar nadería, cosa o cantidad insignificante. Es decir, todo lo contrario.

Interesante, ¿no?

Un abrazo,

C


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