# Native Americans



## Chicagopher

Hello all,

I am a beginning/intermediate Arabic student trying to put together a presentation on Estevanico.  I'm looking for the translation for the term "Native American" but it doesn't show up in either of my dictionaries.  Can anyone offer any insight?


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## xebonyx

Native American: الهندي الأحمر  Plural: الهنود الحمر 
I believe you can also use الأمريكان الأصليين meaning Indigenous Americans.


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## Josh_

Hi Chicagopher (I like the name) and welcome to the forums,

The Arabic term is الهندي الأحمر and the plural is الهنود الحمر. I know the literal translation of this in English can be considered offensive, but apparently, from what I've been told, the Arabic term is not offensive.  However, if your target audience is American learners of Arabic, that may not be the best term to use as it would be impossible to separate the offensive connotation of the English from the Arabic.  In that case, I believe you can also use the term الهندي الأمريكي (plural الهنود الأمريكان).  There are also some other possibilities (basically literal translations of English terms).  You can check here for other terms and more information.


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## Chicagopher

Thank you, both!  The help is greatly appreciated.


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## suma

I'm not sure if the Arabic  *الهنود الحمر*  is stll widely used any more? It literally means Red Indians, and I imagine as in English this term is less acceptable.


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## xebonyx

suma said:


> I'm not sure if the Arabic *الهنود الحمر* is stll widely used any more? It literally means Red Indians, and I imagine as in English this term is less acceptable.


 
Well, as Josh noted above, even though it may appear offensive and backwards in English, it's the most common expression for it in Arabic. The same goes for words like عبد and لوطي which can or have been criticized to mean "black (person)" and "homosexual" respectively.
الهنود الأمريكان may be a newer arrival to the language in comparison to الهنود الحمر .


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## clevermizo

xebonyx said:


> The same goes for words like عبد and لوطي ....



While I'm not sure about عبد, actually لوطي is offensive to quite a number of people. You're right about its being common, though.


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## xebonyx

clevermizo said:


> While I'm not sure about عبد....


 
In respect to American culture, we tend to perceive it as an offense. There are some Black arabs I've met, however, who have preferred أسود to the former.


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## cherine

*Moderator reminder:*
*Guys, there are already threads discussing عبد and لوطي , so let's not go off-topic here.*

*Thanks *


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## elroy

الهنود الحمر is still widely used in Palestinian Arabic, and I don't think it's perceived as pejorative or offensive.  Why should it be any more offensive than "black"?  Both refer to skin color.  And before anyone says that the skin of native Americans isn't really "red," we all know that not all black people have skin that is actually black.


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## xebonyx

elroy said:
			
		

> Why should it be any more offensive than "black"?


 
I personally think you would have to be the one being percieved as "red" or "black" to understand that point on a more intimate level (* however, this doesn't mean that those who aren't are incapable of doing so, or those who occupy that labelling will).

Native Americans in the past have been associated as both the "noble and dirty savage", and as this notion was employed the word "red" was a general descriptive of any tribe with intentional disrespect. (Eg. Why call most Asian people you encounter "Chinese"?). If you've ever read some old colonizer narratives, the way they describe other's physical characteristics and status are really astounding. 

In a nutshell, it has nothing to do with what you or I think feels right to be said, it has to do with respecting peoples whose cultural significance and symbols have been demoralized.


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## clevermizo

Whether or not something is offensive depends entirely on the group of people who do or do not find it offensive. In this case, I don't think there is a significant number of native Americans who read about references to themselves in Arabic. Therefore, الهنود الحمر is just the term. If at some point enough native Americans start learning Arabic and find it offensive, perhaps a new word will be coined.

I personally find it slightly off, but just because "Red Indian" sounds particularly obtuse to me in English. If I could use الهنود الأمريكان I would, though I have no problem recognizing that الهنود الحمر is the most common term.


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## xebonyx

EDIT 





> In this case, I don't think there is a significant number of native Americans who read about references to themselves in Arabic. Therefore, الهنود الحمر is just the term.


 
Was this response to me?


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## clevermizo

xebonyx said:


> Was this response to me?



No. It was just my thought on the thread topic. If it were in response to someone specifically, I would have added a quotation. If you look at the timestamps we were probably both composing our thoughts at the same time.


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## xebonyx

clevermizo said:


> No. It was just my thought on the thread topic. If it were in response to someone specifically, I would have added a quotation. If you look at the timestamps we were probably both composing our thoughts at the same time.


 
Ah ok. Sorry.


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## Outlandish

IMO,الهنود الحمر/ الهنود الامريكيين is pejurative in Arabic as much as in Eglish. Certainly, اسكان اميريكا الاصليينis more accepted and in use today.


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## londonmasri

Can the word اصليين also mean indigenous?
How would we say the 'indigenous American (population)'?

شكرا جزيلا


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## cherine

Yes.
We also say سكان أستراليا الأصليون or السكان الأصليون في أستراليا .

Indigenous American population: سكان أمريكا الأصليون .


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