# Detour



## ThomasK

What is your word for 'detour' if I may ask? I think different words (and metaphors) are used... 

Dutch: *omweg* (a way around, is some possible translation - you don't go straight to the point, but you take a long way around that straightcut, or something). (German: *Umweg* ???)

Fr./ Eng. : *detour* (off-road, I think)

I still wonder whether we have paraphrases, but I can't imagine any now...


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## Maroseika

Russian:
обход  - pedestrian way around (lit. around + walk)
объезд - vehicle way around (lit. around + ride) 
окольный путь - any way around (lit. Rus. around + Anc. Rus. around + way)
крюк - any way around (lit. hook); used in the "negative" sense.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
For vehicles and pedestrians->Παρακαμπτήρια οδός (parakampt*i*ria oð*o*s->detour road) or, παρακαμπτήριος (parakampt*i*rios->detour). We use the "archaic" παρακαμπτήριος (2nd declension feminine noun ending in -οs) when the «oδός» part (road) is ommited. From the Hellenistic verb «παρακάμπτω» (para'kamptō),  "to avoid by bending aside"


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## jazyk

In Portuguese: desvio (des + via = _out of the way_).


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## ThomasK

I just came across "*rodeo* (circumlocution, encirclement, gird, rodeo, round up)" in Spanish at Webster's. Anyone who speaks Spanish around here and willing to comment on the correctness of the translation?


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## Juan Nadie

ThomasK said:


> I just came across "*rodeo* (circumlocution, encirclement, gird, rodeo, round up)" in Spanish at Webster's. Anyone who speaks Spanish around here and willing to comment on the correctness of the translation?



Rodeo, vuelta, desvío...
Desvío is kind of the same as in Portuguese. It sounds more _official_ and would be the word you could listen in news.
Rodeo is a correct translation, sure. It depends on the situation and can mean any of the possible translation that the Webster gives.
Vuelta could be turn, round up, and the kind, but is more generic than the others two. All three of them can be used for people or vehicles or to describe how a person answers a question...


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## jazyk

We could also use rodeio and volta in Portuguese.


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## ThomasK

When talking with a Spanish lady yesterday I was reminded of a danger of misunderstanding. I was *not* referring to *a 'deviation'* (though that causes a detour), but on the concept of 'too long a way' (it could have been shorter, which one knows a priori or finds out a posteriori)... I do not know if 'rode(i)o' is a deviation as well in SPanish or Portugese...


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## sakvaka

In *Finnish *'detour' is _kiertotie_ (kiertää = to circle, tie = road). 

Sometimes simply _kierto_ can be used: _Meille tuli kilometrin ylimääräinen kierto._ We had to make an additional detour (lit. circling) of a kilometer.



ThomasK said:


> ... I was *not* referring to *a 'deviation'* (though that causes a detour), but on the concept of 'too long a way' (it could have been shorter, which one knows a priori or finds out a posteriori)



Too long a way? This would refer to a 'shortcut'. I think detours are always longer and slower than the direct route and one would rarely make them willingly. Sometimes they just have to be made, eg. when a car accident has occurred and the traffic flow is conducted along some other route.

'Scenic route' is of course a different concept, even in its humorous use.


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## ThomasK

I don't understand : a shortcut is the opposite of a detour to me, S. But great association: a detour with a scenic route (some detours don't feel like detours indeed).


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> I don't understand : a shortcut is the opposite of a detour to me, S. But great association: a detour with a scenic route (some detours don't feel like detours indeed).



Sorry, it was my mistake! 

I misread your sentence as that people would use detours if they want to avoid too long ways. But obviously you meant that the detours are the long ways.


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## ThomasK

I suddenly think of it: Finnish expresses the idea of 'around' like Dutch does. I am just wondering whether _rodeo_ refers to _(a)round_ as well... 

And I suppose 'round' here means not straight, whereas I do not see an intrinsic link between _detour_ and _around_ - but I guess that is quite common.


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## ThomasK

While 2.5 years older, I suddenly come across 

*- λοξοδρόμηση* (deflection, deflections, detour, detours), 
- *διοχετε ω κυκλοφορ α* (detour), 
- *γύροσ* (brim, contour, crawl, detour, hem), 

at Webster's - and I suddenly notice they have _cyclo_, and _gyro_ in them, so 'circle' and thus _round/ om_. Can Apmoy still comment on those?


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:
			
		

> While 2.5 years older, I suddenly come across
> *-λοξοδρόμηση* (deflection, deflections, detour, detours)


«λοξοδρόμηση» (lokso'ðromisi, _feminine noun_) lit means diversion, a fork/branch in a road. From the verb «λοξοδρομώ» (loksoðro'mo)-->_to diverge, deviate_; compound formed with the joining together of adj. «λοξός, -ή, -ό» (lo'ksos _m._, lo'ksi _f._, lo'kso _n._), from the classical adj. «λοξός, -ή, -όν» (lŏ'ksŏs _m._, lŏ'ksē _f._, lŏ'ksŏn _n._; PIE base *(e)l-eq-, _to bend_)-->_slanting, crosswise_ + «δρόμος» ('ðromos, _masculine noun_) from the classical masculine noun «δρόμος» ('drŏmŏs; PIE base *der-, _to run_)-->_course, race_. We translate deviation, divergence, diversion with «λοξοδρόμηση».


			
				ThomasK said:
			
		

> *- διοχετε ω κυκλοφορ α* (detour)


That'd be «διοχετεύω κυκλοφορία» (ðioçe'tevo ciklofo'ria) lit. _to channel traffic_, i.e. to relieve traffic congestion via interchanges.


			
				ThomasK said:
			
		

> *-γύροσ*


That'd be «γύρος» ('ʝiros _masculine noun_); from the Hellenistic «γῦρος» ('gūrŏs, _masculine noun_), from the Classical masculine noun «γυρὸς» (gū'rŏs)-->lit. _rounded, curved, crooked_ metaph. _periphery, perimeter_. From PIE base *gʷelā-, _knuckle_. With «γύρος» we mostly describe the lap. We also describe THIS with «γύρος» 

[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
[ç] is a voiceless palatal fricative
[c] is a voiceless palatal plosive
[ʝ] is a voiced palatal fricative


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## ThomasK

> That'd be «διοχετεύω κυκλοφορία» (ðioçe'tevo ciklofo'ria) lit. _to channel traffic_, i.e. to relieve traffic congestion via interchanges.


 
Could I then call it a kind of ring road ? 

The other _gyros_ you refer to: of course, I now understand, because it is turning around, I guess, now I realize that. Thanks again !

_Detour_ probably means both a way around and a deviation in some languages, because both are longer.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Could I then call it a kind of ring road ?


You mean to turn the verb into a noun? i.e. «διοχέτευση» (ðio'xetefsi, _feminine noun_)? It's a familiar one, but reserved mostly for siphonage; it sounds very weird when used for traffic. We mostly name the ring road as «παράκαμψη» (pa'rakampsi, _feminine noun_), or παρακαμπτήρια/-τήριος


ThomasK said:


> The other _gyros_ you refer to: of course, I now understand, because it is turning around, I guess, now I realize that. Thanks again !


haha, yes, exactly!


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## ThomasK

διοχέτευση/ παράκαμψη...This is wonderful, or no, intriguing: how words seeming to express the same idea/ concept/... turn out to be used quite differently! 

So not (even) κυκλοφορία then: that is something like traffic then?Thanks!


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## ThomasK

Maroseika said:


> Russian:
> обход - pedestrian way around (lit. around + walk)
> объезд - vehicle way around (lit. around + ride)
> окольный путь - any way around (lit. Rus. around + Anc. Rus. around + way)
> крюк - any way around (lit. hook); used in the "negative" sense.


 
I happened to read this, and wondered about the precise pronunciation of the words. I would also like to know what the 'basic' suffix is and whether you can use in a figurative sense as well. 

I keep wondering about the _om-/ round/ ob_ (?) versus the _de-_ (_off-/ af-_ in Dutch. Is ours only descriptive as such, whereas it does have a negative connotative) whereas English immediately focuses on the negative aspects? I wonder. Can you tell me whether your words are negative in themselves ? I consider round-words not intrinsically negative - and suppose most people agree with that.


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## ThomasK

I suddenly realized: _de-tour_ does not mean _off-road_, but _off-tour/circle_, or something the like...


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## sakvaka

If I am not completely mistaken, the British use the word _diversion_ (< Latin "divertere") instead of _detour_.


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## ThomasK

It is in fact conceptually interesting (or semantically): to us _omleiding/omlegging_ and _omweg_ are very much linked. _Om---ing_ is indeed diversion of the trafic (the first referring to police 'leading' you around, the second signs telling you to make a... detour), but results in a detour, which, to us, is the general term for the way that leads from A to B  via C. Detour is so much like too long a way (as it is a way around, not through...), but it can be imposed or voluntary. However, it has a negative meaning,always. Would you think there is a perfect parallel with Finnish here?


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> Would you think there is a perfect parallel with Finnish here?



I think there is. _Kiertotie_ as a word is apparently the opposite of a concept like _suora tie_, a straight way.

My dictionary translates _omleiding_ as [tilapäinen ajoreitti] and _omlegging_ as tilapäistie - ie. [temporary driving route], temporary way. Square brackets indicate an explanation of an untranslatable word. 

The latter term isn't very common here, but "tilapäinen ajoreitti" is often used by the Police to describe a diversion you need to use if the main way is occupied eg. by a pile-up. However, _kiertotie_ can be used as well.

My dictionary (OALD 7) defines _detour _and _diversion_ as follows:



> *detour* 1 a longer route that you take in order to avoid a problem or to visit a place: _We had to make a detour around the flooded fields._ 2 (_NAmE_) = DIVERSION
> 
> *diversion* 3 [C] (_BrE_) (_NAmE_ detour) a road or route that is used when the usual one is closed: _Diversions will be signposted._



So, there are two concepts in British English: diversions when the usual one is closed - and detours when you need to visit another place. But if a route is closed, there's indeed a problem you need to avoid, and _detour_ would suit the context as well! Ehm...

Another related concept is _poikkeama_ with its English parallels, _divergence, deviation, deflection_...


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot, S! However, I need more time to go into it. It is intriguing though, or it might be interesting, to see whether both can/ must be considered linked, especially intrinsically linked. We 'd need to find out for example whether _detour_  is indeed negative in many languages. (_Detour,_ 1 above is strangely unclear: the definition refers to free will, whereas the example refers to being forced)

 I'd even feel like checking the underlying concepts or even hypotheses/ presuppositions, but er, not now...


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## Lars H

In Swedish: "Omväg", the very same word as in Dutch or German.


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## ThomasK

Would you say it has a negative load, Lars? Can it have a positive one? (Thanks)


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## Lars H

"Omväg" is a rather neutral expression. it's a way around something. If it's positive or not depends on the circumstances. It could be a good thing on a beautiful day, but a nuisance if you are late for something.

To say "omledning" sound a bit odd in Swedish, but Swedish police could "leda om" the traffic, meaning there would be an "omläggning" and I would be forced to take an "omväg" to reach my destination.


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## ThomasK

Thanks. I suppose this is what leads to the confusion: our word only has a negative meaning and we'd never say that we "een omweg maken" for pleasure.


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## ThomasK

I am just returning to this point, as there seemed to be some disambiguation needed. If anyone is interested: is the concept unambiguous in your view and only negative (opposite of a short-cut, too long a way)? Or does it also refer to a path taken for fun, for pleasure ???


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## Lars H

The overall norm is, I would guess, to always choose the shortest way to reach a goal. Hence, a detour is not favourable.

"Ett träd låg över vägen så jag måste ta en omväg" 
(A tree lied across the road so I had to take a detour)

But it is also correct to say 

"Jag var i närheten, så jag tog en omväg för att besöka..."
(I was in the neighbourhood, so I took a detour to visit...)


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## ThomasK

I understand, great ! That reminds me: we'd use _een *ommetje* maken_(a little 'round road') for that, thus making clear we deliberately choose to make some kind of detour. _(I am grateful for helping me realize this distinction !) _


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## HUMBERT0

In Spanish
“Rodear” can mean to “Go around”, if there is a “detour”/ “desviación” up ahead in the road.


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## ThomasK

I guess 'rodear' has to do with 'round', and of course it is a natural way of avoiding a 'centre' that one cannot pass through, I suppose (as with 'ring roads'). The idea is often conveyed in these words _(in my dialect it would be 'ommetoer'/ 'round tour')_.


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## francisgranada

Hungarian

*kerülő* 
*eltérés*


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## ThomasK

Could you explain the origin of the words, Francis ?


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> Could you explain the origin of the words, Francis ?


 
_*kerülni -*_ "to go round about", "to by-pass", to circumvent, to go around ...
(this verb is used with many prefixes, that modify it's meaning)

_*eltérni*_ - to deviate, to diverge ... (intrans.)
_*eltéríteni*_ - to deviate, to diverge ... (trans.)
_el-_ is a prefix with the meaning of _away_


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## ThomasK

Great, thanks, or just one small question: is there something "circular" in the verb _kerülni_ ('round about', 'circumvent'), or only in the translation?


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## mataripis

Detour= ibang daanan o ibang lusutan o ibang lagusan (in Tagalog)


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## ThomasK

Can you please comment on that long phrase/ paraphrase?


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> Can you please comment on that long phrase/ paraphrase?


I suppose it's not so long, but there are rather 3 versions ... (_o_ is _or_ in Spanish). But I may be wrong...


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## ThomasK

Oh, I see, you might be right. But then can you comment on the three ? ;-)


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> Oh, I see, you might be right. But then can you comment on the three ? ;-)


 
I myself not, of course ...  We have to wait for somebody who speaks Tagalog....


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## ThomasK

10 years later I am about to enquire about translations of "shortcut". I think there are two angles from which one can view a detour: 
- *around *something: there i often a reference to circles/ circular and om in Dutch, which means: '"around"; that might explain why it can sometimes be valued as positive (something like a scenic route)
- *off*-road, as in detour, off-tour, whereas the tour might refer to something round again... 

Would you agree?


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish

detour = objazd

a roundabout road = objazdówka

a roundabout road = droga okrężna

bypass  =  obejście (by foot)


Italian 

detour  = deviazione

In Italian deviazione can be translated as diversion (diversione).


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## ThomasK

I notice that we in Dutch make a distinction between two concepts that are both called '"detour" in other languages apparently: 

(a) In Dutch it is always *off-road*, it is a road we would never take spontaneously as it takes too much time. We will therefore mostly combine it with "have to": _we shall *have to make a detour*_*. *It is always informal, even subjective sometimes. That is the one I wanted to focus on... 

(b) The other meanings 
- We'd never call *a ring road* a detour, whereas I do understand it is a tour around, but it is not off-road.. 
- For _*deviation *_(off-road literally), we have a separate word when meaning sending the traffic in another direction in an organised way (signposted): _*omleiding*_ (leading around), *wegomlegging *(way-around-laying)... (I did not think it was called "a diversion" in English, but I am mistaken. It is the UK equivalent of "detour", according to Cambridge dictionary...
No problem to mention these as well...


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