# -ig- and -tx sound: same?



## papillon

Hi.

The consonants in ma*ig* and despa*tx *sound the same to my ear, but are listed in my textbook using different phonetic symbols. Are they actually different sounds?

Thanks!


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## NoOrK

Hi!,
As you say. They have same sound. Ok, I try to explain to you when you can write one or other

Every word finish with "*ig*" has plural "J / TJ".  On the other hand when you make the plural with "*tx*", it's so easy, you add "*OS*" = "*TXOS*".

sing. Ra*ig* = plu. Ra*j*os    (lightning)
sing. Lle*ig* = plu. LLe*tj*os   (ugly)
sing. Despa*tx* = plu. Despatx*os

*It's so difficult to explain. If you have more questions. Don't worry. Ask.

Reegards!


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## ampurdan

They sound the same to me too, however, the sound may vary depending on the following sound:

El maig és un mes: [əl’maʤezun’mɛs].
Al maig plou: [əl’maʧ'plɒu].

Despatx gros: [dəs'paʧ'grɒs].
Despatx estret: [dəs'paʤ'əstrɛt].

So, if the following sound is a vowel, the sound is voiced, if the following sound is a voiceless consonant, the sound is also voiceless.


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## papillon

Thanks *NoOrk* and *Ampurdan*! I think I understand now.


NoOrK said:


> It's so difficult to explain.


Yes, I know, trying to explain the sound with letters is not easy.


ampurdan said:


> So, if the following sound is a vowel, the sound is voiced, if the following sound is a voiceless consonant, the sound is also voiceless.


What about words at the end of a sentence?
Despa*tx*
Despa*ig *(I just made it up)


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## ampurdan

Oh, yes! I forgot it. At the end of a sentence both "despa*tx*" and "ma*ig*" are voiceless.


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## Namarne

papillon said:


> What about words at the end of a sentence?
> Despa*tx*
> Despa*ig *(I just made it up)


For me both are EXACTLY the same sound, at the end of a sentence. 
But it's not strange a difference in the spelling, because, besides the plural question, there are areas in Catalonia where words finishing in *-tx* and *-ig* may be pronounced different. 
In the village of my family (in Aragon, near Catalonia), people say *mai*, not *maig*, for example. Of course this difference doesn't exist whit words like *despatx*.


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## Samaruc

ampurdan said:


> They sound the same to me too, however, the sound may vary depending on the following sound:
> 
> El maig és un mes: [əl’maʤezun’mɛs].
> Al maig plou: [əl’maʧ'plɒu].
> 
> Despatx gros: [dəs'paʧ'grɒs].
> Despatx estret: [dəs'paʤ'əstrɛt].
> 
> So, if the following sound is a vowel, the sound is voiced, if the following sound is a voiceless consonant, the sound is also voiceless.



Don't you think that "tx" should remain unvoiced even when followed by a vowel...? In my opinion, only "ig" should be voiced in this situation... Or maybe that's just a dialectal difference.


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## ampurdan

It seems clearly voiced to me as I pronounce it and according to this source (p. 85 bottom) and this one, also "tx" becomes voiced when followed by a vowel (only in the beginning of the next word, not in the same one, I forgot to mention this).

The AVL (Valencian Accademy of the Language) recommends Valencian speakers to pronounce "despatx obert" as [des'paʤ'obɛrt]. Source (p. 33).

This Valencian source alludes to voicement of [ʧ] into [ʤ], but there's only one example with "fu*ig*". It also says that the loss of voice of [ʤ] is a characteristic of the "valencià apitxat".


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## Samaruc

ampurdan said:


> It seems clearly voiced to me as I pronounce it and according to this source (p. 85 bottom) and this one, also "tx" becomes voiced when followed by a vowel (only in the beginning of the next word, not in the same one, I forgot to mention this).
> 
> The AVL (Valencian Accademy of the Language) recommends Valencian speakers to pronounce "despatx obert" as [des'paʤ'obɛrt]. Source (p. 33).
> 
> This Valencian source alludes to voicement of [ʧ] into [ʤ], but there's only one example with "fu*ig*". It also says that the loss of voice of [ʤ] is a characteristic of the "valencià apitxat".



Thanks for such a documented answer. So, I was wrong and "tx" should also be voiced.


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