# Race: Color of one's skin



## VenusEnvy

I tried looking in the site for the translation for "race", but couldn't find it.

This didn't help because it only gave the definition referring to running, or racing cars, not the color of someone's skin.
http://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=race&v=b


I also want to pose a cultural question to all Latinos/Chicanos/Hispanicos...
What race do you consider yourself?
Often times, when researchers speak of the races, they only mention black and white. So, what race is Latino considered?
Is Latino a race, or ethnicity?
Is Hispanic a color, or culture?

Any Latino: When filling out a questionnaire, which race do you check? White, black, other?


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## bourbonstreet

VenusEnvy: the translation you’re looking for is actually the first one on the page you mention: _“raza”_.

Regarding your other questions, I will only say that as in Perú there’s no obligation to state race or ethnicity on any official document, we all consider ourselves “Peruvians”. I guess it’s the same on the USA (I mean, that there is no such obligation). Nevertheless, when I’m outside my country, and I HAVE to state a race, I consider myself a “Latino”.

I think this is a delicate matter, so you’ll probably receive different answers, with different opinions.

Good luck.

BS


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## esance

From Barcelona (Spain)

Raza:grupos de seres humanos que por el color de la piel y otros caracteres, se distinguen en raza blanca, amarilla, cobriza y negra.

Por lo tanto ser latino no determina la raza.

En España nos consideramos de raza blanca.

Any suggestions?

Saludos


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## Maru

There are so many races in all the countries. Most of us, are a mixture of two or more races, I think. My grand parents were from Italy, Spain and Argentina, for example.

Latino is a word to include people who speak a romance language. Some people are in disagreeing. For me, is very common and acceptable. The same thing happen with the word "Hispanic", in U.S. is very common to say Hispanic for people who speak Spanish, but I really don't like it. 

You know?, is like if Spanish people would think that U.S. and England have the same culture or costumes just for speak the same language. We are very different in our culture, even we have a lot of differences in the idiom, and so many things.

Sometimes I have the felling that some U.S. people think that Latin America is a big country…


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## jacinta

I worked for the US Census in 2002.  I interviewed many Latinos.  Every one of them answered the "race" question White.  It seemed the only option for them.


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## cuchuflete

Estimada VenusEnvy--

First let me congratulate you on the witty apodo.  Second, you have already received the help requested.  RAZA is correct.  As to its definition, this is a relatively recent system of classifying humans.  It began, I believe, in the last century, and has been propagated by the same organization that has brought us a war in IRAQ, the U.S. gov't.   When I was interviewed for the Census long form questionnaire, I refused all racial classifications other than "human", as I believe the rest are ridiculous.  They ignore culture, language, genetics, and try to compress a multitude of people of distinct backgrounds into a few convenient--for the burrrocracia--classifications.


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## VenusEnvy

I have heard some refer to themselves as a "Latino" race, others identify as "white", but curiously none as "black". I find it difficult to categorize people into separate colors. Some black people have lighter skin than some whites. What do we categorize mixed-raced people as? 

The same question of the "Hispanic races" comes into question when referring to "Asian" as a race. 

Does it make a difference being referred to as latino, hispanic, or hispano?

Thank you all for your generous responses.


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## diyer

Hi Humans.

No hacemos un gran favor a la humanidad si queremos clasificar a la *raza humana*. 

I claim myself just as a human being.


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## rockbovia

Even though it might seem a bit rude to "classify" people, we may consider that in some cases you need to have these sort of distinctions, mainly when you're talking about medical matters. There are some deseases that are more common among women, others among old people, others in America and others in white people, just to say some expamles. I don't consider to be unpolite to call somebody black, after all is a nice color. What it's unacceptable is to discriminate, not "classifying" itself.

Of course it has to be seen why somebody's race is asked for.

Finally, "latino" refers more to cultural items than color of the skin or hair.


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## Whisky con ron

I agree with cuchuflete.  The word you're looking for is "raza".  I believe there's only one:  la raza humana.  What country one comes from is not relevant for one's race, I think.  Wanting to classify people is only a demostration of ignorance, if I can say...

I would suggest we leave the discussion here...


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## VenusEnvy

Whisky: I agree with you whole-heartedly. Unfortunately, when you live in a country that is obsessed with categorizing people into neat little categories, it makes for a sticky situtation. 

I think according to the Census Bureau, "hispanic" isn't considered a race. It is considered an ethnicity. Many questionnaires ask for if you are of Hispanic origin, followed by a list of other races. I learned this only a little while ago (well, it had been a little while ago when I started this thread!). I was alarmed, and wondered why I hadn't noticed earlier.

Having read other posts (of people from different countries), I feel a little silly not realizing how _little _ importance this issue would have elsewhere.


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## Chaucer

It was a simple question about the translation of *race*, along with a relevant one about whether "Latino" is a race: which of course it is not: (How many other people in the U.S. must have that question.). So I feel bad about about not joining the "We are the world, we are the children" chorus; that I know means well. But pretending there aren't different races is like pretending there isn't racism. I know someone will jump on me for this. But talk and innocently put forth rhetoric is easy. And if you've never had to deal with race, or been involved with racial matters, it's easy to do the rocking back-and-forth act of singing like children and being schmaltzy about it.

I'd rather there be no response. If this annoys, offends, angers, etc., well, I just don't believe that some of you actually believe what you are saying, because I don't believe you've ever had to prove it.

Guys and gals, it's the *schmaltziness* that gets me when some foreros get on a role about topics like this. SORRY.


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## Isolde

Chaucer said:
			
		

> It was a simple question about the translation of *race*, along with a relevant one about whether "Latino" is a race: which of course it is not: (How many other people in the U.S. must have that question.). So I feel bad about about not joining the "We are the world, we are the children" chorus; that I know means well. But pretending there aren't different races is like pretending there isn't racism. I know someone will jump on me for this. But talk and innocently put forth rhetoric is easy. And if you've never had to deal with race, or been involved with racial matters, it's easy to do the rocking back-and-forth act of singing like children and being schmaltzy about it.
> 
> I'd rather there be no response. If this annoys, offends, angers, etc., well, I just don't believe that some of you actually believe what you are saying, because I don't believe you've ever had to prove it.
> 
> Guys and gals, it's the *schmaltziness* that gets me when some foreros get on a role about topics like this. SORRY.


 
For translating purposes, "race" is "raza" and that's about it.  Funny how this is also the translation for "breed" as applied to our canine friends (raza de perro).

However, I have to agree with Chaucer.  Although it is very nice to think ourselves as only one "human race", the problem is precisely that...that we ARE humans and there are situations when out or rage, indignation or frustration, we use a person's "race" as an accusation weapon or to obtain an answer for a usually negative situation.   The labelling/classification, etc. etc. will continue until  the Big Bang stops.   This of course serves more than one purpose.  Someone mentioned that it is important in Medicine - I agree.  Another, which is equally important, is in criminal matters.  You can call it Caucasian or white...it's the same thing.  I don't think it is just for bureaucratic reasons or pure racism.  Yes, we all belong to the "human race", but we have physiological differences that must be brought up for various reasons.

As for "categorizing people into neat little categories" - it does not only happen with race.  Everybody categorizes everybody else: fat people v skinny people, ignorant people v smart-arse people, bigots v do-gooders, poor v rich and it goes on and on and on.

Racism - thank God - is becoming more and more "obsolete". Racism was the cause of The Holocaust and other genocide attempts.  Racism means to hate another person merely because of his/her race.  This is harsh and ignorant, but unfortunately it is still out there.  What I think is happening now, is that the boundaries of the world as we know it, are beginning to disappear and this is causing a lot of tension.  Migration is a major problem - not because a migrant is white or black or purple.  But because of the different habits and customs they bring with them.  I will not name nations - just in case - but do you think the people in "Country No.1" hate people that migrated from "Country No.2" because they are "X color" or because they have the radio blasting at midnight?

This is a very complex subject.  The solution?  Education, communication, tolerance, amongst others.  Nothing is easy.   But as they say in Spanish:  "Gota a gota se horada la piedra".  Let's hope we are lucky enough to see the changes.


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## esteban

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I tried looking in the site for the translation for "race", but couldn't find it.
> 
> This didn't help because it only gave the definition referring to running, or racing cars, not the color of someone's skin.
> http://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=race&v=b
> 
> 
> I also want to pose a cultural question to all Latinos/Chicanos/Hispanicos...
> What race do you consider yourself?
> Often times, when researchers speak of the races, they only mention black and white. So, what race is Latino considered?
> Is Latino a race, or ethnicity?
> Is Hispanic a color, or culture?
> 
> Any Latino: When filling out a questionnaire, which race do you check? White, black, other?


 

The Latino's race issue is very interesting because it shows clearly what are the limits of the race definition.
There's no Latino race because races don't even exist. A race is something totally arbitrary.

Cuando clasificamos un grupo de personas en las categorìas "blancas", "amarillas" o "negras", ?cuàles fueron los criterios que nos han permitido separarlas en varias categorìas?
?Color de piel? Perfecto digo yo, ahora repitan el experimento separando las personas con orejas grandes de las que tienen orejas chiquitas. Esta vez las personas de mismo color ya no quedarìan en el mismo grupo...
Esto demuestra la arbitrariedad de la raza. Algunas personas podrìan decirme "pero el tamano de las orejas es completamente irrelevante" y bueno el tamano de las orejas es un caràcter genético como cualquier otro...forma de la nariz, color del cabello, tamano, color de piel, color de los ojos varìan de un individuo a otro.
Ahora ?por qué entonces ciertas categorìas de personas de cierta "raza" contraen ciertas enfermedades màs facilmente que otras? Bueno, tiene sentido porque lo que llamamos raza, muchas veces es un conjunto de caracteres genéticos que han perdurado y han sido transmitido dentro de un mismo cìrculo de personas. El mismo fenòmeno se puede observar en la familia Gòmez: los varios integrantes de esta familia pueden haber padecido, a través de los siglos, mucho màs de asma por ejemplo que la familia Rodrìguez. ?Entonces qué? ?Los Rodrìguez y los Gòmez constituyen una raza aparte???
El racismo existe y seguirà existiendo pero ùnicamente porque la gente siente la necesidad de darle etiquetas a los demàs.

Colombia constituye un ejemplo increìble de diversidad fenotìpica. Somos indios, negros, blancos, mestizos (blanco con indio), zambos (indio con negro), mulatos (blanco con negro). 
Miren a Gabriel Garcìa Màrquez, Montoya y Shakira. Los tres son colombianos pero de una "raza" distinta.



Saludos


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## Lazarillo

Hello everybody!

Please, check this interesting link on the subject (in Spanish). Although the concept of "biological races" has been strongly rejected in recent years (due to reasons you all know) human beings can be tipified into one of three categories: cacasoid, mongoloid and negroid. Using the term "raza latina", for example, is not scientific, and refers to something cultural rather than biological.

Cheers!

L


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## Outsider

It's curious how VenusEnvy tied the concept of race to colour in her first post, and the title of the thread, but then asked whether "Latino" and "Hispanic" were races. There are people of all colours in every Latin American country! If Latino/Hispanic is a race then race clearly has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour.

Someone mentioned earlier that Latinos tend to describe themselves as "white" in the U.S. Could it be because black Latinos find it more advantageous to simply reply "Afro-American"?

Another point was made by Chaucer that races are realities we should acknowledge, for better and for worse. That's true, but when people say that "there's only one race", or "races don't exist", what they mean is that race is not an _objective_ biological and anthropological reality. It's a product of culture, history, and nothing more.


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## Phryne

This thread is interesting! I agree with most of you here, that there is a double standard. 

On the one hand, "races" are not biological entities but social cultural categories that change through time. What's "white" in the US is not the same as what’s “white” in Argentina (as an example) and definitely, it's not what it used to be 100 years ago (the US used to consider Irish people as non-whites, for example). Even most African Americans have more "European" blood than "African" blood running through their veins... sadly, we all know why. Nevertheless, they’re still considered to be "black" and not "white". Except for medical reasons, the concept of "race" is ridiculous and has no real foundation to it. Even considering people who have not mingled, "races" are some sort of continuum; after all, we all come from the same ancestor in Africa. 

On the other hand, we DO have "racial" problems. In the US, for instance, writing down your "race" helps some governmental programs to address to racial inequality. (I have my issues with these programs, but I’ll spare you.) But beyond that, I see that in the US it’s so important for people to define their race or ethnicity, as if it was part of their identity. And I don’t fully agree with this. Besides the fact that the categories are “laid out” for you—which means that you have to answer what they have decided of who you are, and not what you think you are—I don’t understand why I have to feel more integrated to the “Latin community”, and not to any other. I’ve been told a couple of times that I should help somebody because “we are Latin”. To me, it is almost insulting. Despite the fact I couldn’t care any less what race/ethnicity anybody is, I personally don’t feel that I belong to any “community”. Yes, we share the language but I’m not so sure of how much of culture and traditions I have in common with people of other Latin-American countries. Conversely, would an American feel comfortable with a category of “UK and ex-British colonies”? In the case of African-Americans I understand their historical need to stick together as a community; however, in the “Latin” community it has obvious political reasons. But anyhow, agreeing with these “categories” is not going to fix the problem if we don’t commit to integrate.  

     saludos


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## Phryne

Outsider said:
			
		

> It's curious how VenusEnvy tied the concept of race to colour in her first post, and the title of the thread, but then asked whether "Latino" and "Hispanic" were races. There are people of all colours in every Latin American country! If Latino/Hispanic is a race then race clearly has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour.


 Definitely not, but many Americans don't know this and consequently, have a lot of bias: they see what they want to see. My family emigrated to Argentina from Europe. So, even though I have brown hair and brown eyes, my skin color is extremely pale. Many times I was asked what I was, and when I say that "I'm from Argentina" some people look at me puzzled. "... but you don't look like...". My conclusion is that they really think that "Latin" is a race and you should look like the stereotype. An even more absurd example of what people believe is what happens to my friend Ana. She was born and raised in Panama but she's of Chinese descent. She has told me that she had arguments with people that could not understand her defining herself as "Panamanian" and not “Chinese”. “But you have slanting eyes!”, they argue. In their perspective, she’s Chinese, no matter what she says. 





> Someone mentioned earlier that Latinos tend to describe themselves as "white" in the U.S. Could it be because black Latinos find it more advantageous to simply reply "Afro-American"?


 It is unlikely that black-Latinos would identify as African-Americans, considering that the latter also make a difference between Caribbean blacks and American blacks. 





> Another point was made by Chaucer that races are realities we should acknowledge, for better and for worse. That's true, but when people say that "there's only one race", or "races don't exist", what they mean is that race is not an _objective_ biological and anthropological reality. It's a product of culture, history, and nothing more.


Chaucer is right to a certain extent. The US has a lot of “racial” problems and that’s why it is so important to define your race/ethnicity (or is it the other way around?) Not all countries have these problems, or at least to this degree. I’m not going to deny that racism exists in Argentina, but the fact that we don’t use any categories and that everybody is comfortable with the unhyphenated “Argentine” label tells you that the problem of “race” is not the same everywhere. 

      Saludos


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## rako05

i personally don't think that the concept of race in itself is ridiculous, but the total negation that such a thing may actually exist certainly does seem slightly absurd / very divisive to me.  



			
				Phryne said:
			
		

> I’m not going to deny that racism exists in Argentina,


i should hope not! that's definitely not the experience of my bolivian girlfriend who was working in buenos aires for 4 months and suffered racial abuse nearly every day... even from colleagues.
my guess is that the usa is probably light years ahead of argentina with regards to racial issues.

i totally agree with chaucer's comment: 'pretending there aren't different races is like pretending there isn't racism'.
as an asian (pakistani) born and bred in northern ireland i have more than a little experience with this.

in my opinion, a lot of white, middle-class liberals who say that 'there are no races, we are all just one big happy family, blah, blah' would probably be horrified if they discovered that i was there new next door neighbour...

some things will never change


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## Phryne

Hello rako05. 





			
				rako05 said:
			
		

> i personally don't think that the concept of race in itself is ridiculous, but the total negation that such a thing may actually exist certainly does seem slightly absurd / very divisive to me.


 I don't think foreros here said that "race" does not exist because they are in denial. As a matter of fact they said it because there is no biological foundation to that belief. In this regard, to me the concept of race is ridiculous from the point that it exists in our minds even though it has no existence in itself, and we discriminate based on that falsehood. I'm definitely not denying people's suffering! And nor did anybody else.


> i should hope not! that's definitely not the experience of my bolivian girlfriend who was working in buenos aires for 4 months and suffered racial abuse nearly every day... even from colleagues. my guess is that the usa is probably light years ahead of argentina with regards to racial issues.


 I'm sorry for your friend. I'm very aware of discrimination and when I said what I said, I was actually thinking about Argentines, not people from other countries. The problem with Bolivians, Paraguayan, etc is different because they are immigrants and there are problems related to Argentines' belief that foreigners are taking jobs that Argentines need. (Don't forget that in my country we had almost 30% of unemployment.) I don't agree with this belief, for I'm an immigrant myself, but I do feel that it is simplistic to say that problem is merely “racial”. Anyway, the US has far more problems with racism and immigration that Argentina does. So I hope that they are ahead!


> in my opinion, a lot of white, middle-class liberals who say that 'there are no races, we are all just one big happy family, blah, blah' would probably be horrified if they discovered that i was there new next door neighbour...


 Again, that’s not what people have said here. We are all aware of racism, but we know for sure that “race” is an invention in order to promote racism. The biological differences are what do not exist.

Saludos


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## Outsider

rako05 said:
			
		

> in my opinion, a lot of white, middle-class liberals who say that 'there are no races, we are all just one big happy family, blah, blah' would probably be horrified if they discovered that i was there new next door neighbour...


Possibly, but the statement itself is not just political correctness. It's science. Read the official statements on race made by the American Anthroplogical Association and the American Association of Physical Anthropologists. Also interesting: PBS documentary.


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## Luke

First of all I must say I'm impressed with the members here because there aren't many places on the internet that a discussion like this could go on for 3 pages without anyone saying anything shockingly ignorant or taking any undue offence.  Bravo.

I must mention that there are good reasons for the census to collect information on race and ethnicity, even if they only use a few broad and sometimes overlapping categories.  It helps them to identify trends, like one minority making significantly less money or being disadvantaged in some other way.  That enables them to form policies and allocate resources to alleviate such inequities.  The fewer inequities we have, the better we can get along as a society.


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## cirrus

Luke said:
			
		

> First of all I must say I'm impressed with the members here because there aren't many places on the internet that a discussion like this could go on for 3 pages without anyone saying anything shockingly ignorant or taking any undue offence. Bravo.
> 
> I must mention that there are good reasons for the census to collect information on race and ethnicity, even if they only use a few broad and sometimes overlapping categories. It helps them to identify trends, like one minority making significantly less money or being disadvantaged in some other way. That enables them to form policies and allocate resources to alleviate such inequities. The fewer inequities we have, the better we can get along as a society.


 
Evening up the balance of power lies at the heart of my work. I am passionate about this and I just wish I could explain this more clearly.

I agree these divisions are arbitrary. I work in community development in what is arguably the most diverse place on the planet. With less than 1500 families on our database we have more than a hundred home languages and I know that the figures we have under represent the reality. Interestingly when I worked with local Colombians and Ecuadorians the majority described themselves as latino cien por cien - I wonder if they would have done before coming to London? 

To give another concrete example in the UK census has Bangladeshi category. The neighbouring borough returns a rate of something like 50% Bangladeshi. However the majority are second, if not third, generation. Bangladesh didn't even exist when many of them were born. Don't even get me started on East African Asians. 

Ranting apart, I recognise that there is some value to the figures eg if 70% of your service users are white when only 20% of the population overall is white there is clearly a problem. This still holds up even when the categories become meaningless once you start to question them closely. I have a co worker who defines herself Bangladeshi. Back in Bangladesh she got hassle for being Londoni and wasn't treated as a fellow Bangladeshi.


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## Emil

I'd like to say that although the race's differences are insignificant, the talk about races should not be a taboo: it's very interesting to study these differences and know their reasons. I think in the future races won't exist any longer: my girlfriend is chinese and if we have childrens one day, what would be their race? So by now we can still use the races to describe someone's look, and that's not discrimination!


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## SweetMommaSue

I believe that this entire world was created in a variety of colors for beauty. EVERYTHING is in color: the sky, the land, the water, the plants, the animals, the insects, even microbes!  AND WE THE PEOPLE are no exception!   I love using colors as a description, even for people.  My children crack me up with their versions of "what color" they are! My oldest says, "Me and Chase are white and Vincent is tan. Daddy is brown and Mommy is white."  I love learning about cultural differences, too.  Saturday, the 10th we are going to an American Indian festival where we will learn all about one of the local tribes and their traditions.  I pray that I instill in my sons the same love of peoples and cultures that I have! Here is one step in the process. Education is the key. . .

Smiles! 
Sweet Momma Sue


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## Go army5

Racism will never go away no matter what we do its goin to stick around until the end of the world (God is comin soon).We are all the same except are skin is a different color but we really arent that different from each other theres always goin to be somebody that thinks they are supiorer (better) another person because of there color I wish it wasnt that way but it has been since the Europeans explored the other lands around them and when I say that I am not bein prejidice im just bein unest.  SALUDOS


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## Lazarillo

Emil said:
			
		

> I think in the future races won't exist any longer: my girlfriend is chinese and if we have childrens one day, what would be their race?


 
Genetic laws involve not ever disapearing of one 'pure' genetic character. When the mixed type generation interbreed, the 'pure' type comes out again. That is why sometimes couples are surpirsed by the skin color of their descendants. This law assures that the diversity will continue going on. However, I agree with Emil: talking about differences is becoming politically incorrect and taboo, and we should avoid this because it only points out the prejudices we still have to deal with, as it happens with the differences between men and women or the color of the skin. Difference exist and it must not be an excuse for injustice.

Cheers!

L


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## Kräuter_Fee

I think race is too subjective to be defined. How many races are there? As I was a little girl I heard there was white, yellow, red and black. Now... if you look there's much more than that. What race are Indians? Some of them are very dark, but are they black? Nope, and yellow? No! So... they have their own race? And Indonesians? I don't think they look similar to any other group of people... 
Well, I think that "race" doesn't make any sense, there are lots of different people. Are white people all the same? There are dark white people, very pale white people... even whites are racist sometimes with other whites. I don't know what race is. I think it's another excuse to discriminate people.
Humans are humans.

P.S.: I've just read a book by Pearl S. Buck "The Hidden Flower", it talks about the impossible love between a Japanese girl and an American soldier during the 2nd World War in Japan. It's great and it makes you see how much people can suffer just because of the race thing.


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## MarcB

.Race depends on the country you are in. in the us 1% African is technically black, however now mixed race has been added. White means people whose origin is European; however some of these people are of mixed race. Latino or Hispanic refers to language not race. It says Hispanic white black native or mixed race. Sometimes North Africans are checked as white- some are white, black or mixed. In fact most people do not know all of the groups who contributed to their "race" and this is an issue 5that Nazis and others have used to discriminate against others and is not valid in 2005


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## MarcB

Race depends on the country you are in. in the us 1% African is technically black, however now mixed race has been added. White means people whose origin is European; however some of these people are of mixed race. Latino or Hispanic refers to language not race. It says Hispanic white black native or mixed race. Sometimes North Africans are checked as white- some are white, black or mixed. In fact most people do not know all of the groups who contributed to their "race" and this is an issue 5that Nazis and others have used to discriminate against others and is not valid in 2005


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## MarcB

Race depends on the country you are in. in the us 1% African is technically black, however now mixed race has been added. White means people whose origin is European; however some of these people are of mixed race. Latino or Hispanic refers to language not race. It says Hispanic white black native or mixed race. Sometimes North Africans are checked as white- some are white, black or mixed. In fact most people do not know all of the groups who contributed to their "race" and this is an issue that Nazis and others have used to discriminate against others and is not valid in 2005


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## Outsider

Although this is an old discussion, I found this interesting article, and thought I might add it to the thread: Folk Heredity (pdf file).


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