# على مرمى من



## Mutafalsif

Hello everybody!

I am well acquainted with the expression على مرمى حجر من, meaning "a stone's throw away from s.th.", but what on earth does the plain على مرمى من mean? "Within reach of", or what?

An example I've come across:

يتجرّعون كؤوسًا من الماء البارد يسبقهم إلى الطاولات التي يجلسون إليها للكتابة على مرمى من العطش الذي يلفّ المدينة


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## AndyRoo

مرمى means target or goal - literally "something you can hit/shoot".

So it's like the English expression "within shooting distance" and of course means "close by".


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## Mahaodeh

The full expression is على مرمى حجر من كذا and it means (figuratively) "close to", here the writer seems to have omitted the word stone, probably because he felt that it's obvious.


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## rayloom

I think the writer probably mixed between على مرمى حجر من and على مرأى من.
Both of which can be used to mean near or close.


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## seta

Hi..I'm trying to translate the sentence but I have some trouble with the verb سبق .What does it mean in the sentence?


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## AndyRoo

seta said:


> Hi..I'm trying to translate the sentence but I have some trouble with the verb سبق .What does it mean in the sentence?


 
It means "preceded", and I think it is referring to a subject which comes later in the sentence. Or it might be referring to the water arriving at the tables before them, but then I would have thought it would need الذي.


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## seta

Thank you!


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## AndyRoo

seta said:


> Thank you!


 
You're welcome...

But now I look at it again,  I think if it referred to something later in the sentence it would be preceded by و so perhaps it is a typo and should be تسبقهم referring to the glasses.

Hope someone can help.


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## ayed

As AndyRoo said, water is served ahead of them, I guess.


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## Mutafalsif

Thanks to you all for helpful comments. Yes, it seems there's some kind of contamination affecting the verb form: combining the use of the masculine singular as if the cold water were the subject of the sentence, and omitting the relative pronoun as if the glasses were the subject.


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## ayed

*يتجرّعون كؤوسًا من الماء البارد(الذي)يسبقهم إلى الطاولات التي يجلسون إليها للكتابة على مرمى من العطش **الذي يلفّ المدينة*


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## cherine

You got right in the first time, Andy: it's the cold water that يسبق those who drink it. The use of الذي is not necessary here. Using تسبقهم , referring to الكؤوس, wouldn't have made the sentence any clearer than the masculine referring to الماء because the other subject in the sentence is a plural anyway.


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## AndyRoo

cherine said:


> You got right in the first time, Andy: it's the cold water that يسبق those who drink it. The use of الذي is not necessary here. Using تسبقهم , referring to الكؤوس, wouldn't have made the sentence any clearer than the masculine referring to الماء because the other subject in the sentence is a plural anyway.


 
Thank you for the clarification Cherine. I thought a relative pronoun such as الذي is needed if the noun is definite, as الماء is here. But perhaps that is not a strict rule?


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## Mutafalsif

cherine said:


> The use of الذي is not necessary here.


 
How come it's not, considering that الماء البارد is definite?  Isn't there always supposed to be a relative pronoun if the antecedent is definite?


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## cherine

Sorry guys, I didn't know about that rule. Somehow, I can't accept the rest of the sentence without the other pronouns, but this one seems ok without it.

Let's wait for more opinions.


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## cherine

Hi again,

I thought about this some more and I think the answer _may _be that يسبقهم is actually a حال جملة فعلية to الماء.

But again, we'd need to wait for more opinions.


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## rayloom

cherine said:


> Sorry guys, I didn't know about that rule. Somehow, I can't accept the rest of the sentence without the other pronouns, but this one seems ok without it.
> 
> Let's wait for more opinions.



I can't accept the whole sentence to be honest!

يتجرع is used when drinking something you don't want to drink, or when you drink something harsh.
It just doesn't work with cold water.
يرتشف would be a better choice of words.

تسبقهم or يسبقهم doesn't really matter. But to use يسبقهم to refer to the water, it should be preceded by a relative pronoun. Using تسبقهم is fine, doesn't need a pronoun, and as you said is a حال. But that's not the case!
Also I don't get the thing where the water gets there ahead of them!

And the point of على مرمى من العطش الذي يلف المدينة...don't know what to say!


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## Mahaodeh

Yes, I must agree with rayloom, لا أكاد أتجرّع الجملة


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## Mutafalsif

rayloom said:


> I can't accept the whole sentence to be honest!
> 
> يتجرع is used when drinking something you don't want to drink, or when you drink something harsh.
> It just doesn't work with cold water.
> يرتشف would be a better choice of words.
> 
> تسبقهم or يسبقهم doesn't really matter. But to use يسبقهم to refer to the water, it should be preceded by a relative pronoun. Using تسبقهم is fine, doesn't need a pronoun, and as you said is a حال. But that's not the case!
> Also I don't get the thing where the water gets there ahead of them!
> 
> And the point of على مرمى من العطش الذي يلف المدينة...don't know what to say!


 
Some things of course are dubious without the context. The use of يتجرع , for example, is probably due to the fact that the people mentioned are just gulping it down, swallowing without tasting or thinking, since they haven't been able to get cold water for months on end. And the water getting to the tables ahead of them is simply a way of saying someone put the glasses there before the drinkers arrived. Though I agree about the last phrase being a bit ... well, unorthodox.


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## cherine

I agree with you about the sentence not being well phrased. I had to read it twice at least before getting what it's saying. 


rayloom said:


> يتجرع is used when drinking something you don't want to drink, or when you drink something harsh.
> It just doesn't work with cold water.
> يرتشف would be a better choice of words.


I wouldn't use يرتشف with drinking cold water in a thursty city. As far as I know, يتجرع is not only used with what you drink forcefully or what you hate drinking, but it's also used with the meaning of "gulp" (a large mouthful of liquid hastily drunk.)


> Using تسبقهم is fine, doesn't need a pronoun, and as you said is a حال. But that's not the case!


Why? Is it ok if the verb refers to الكؤوس but not ok if/when it refers to الماء ? 


> Also I don't get the thing where the water gets there ahead of them!


Imagine a restaurant with excellent service, where waiters put the cold water on the table even before your reach your table. 


> And the point of على مرمى من العطش الذي يلف المدينة...don't know what to say!


This is where we all agree, I think. The structure is definitely erroneous.


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