# sigara içme yasağı/ sigara içmenin cezasi



## pekka123

hello

sigara içme yasağı

sigara içmenin cezasi

why the first sentence doesn´t have nin on içme but the second sentence has nin on içme is there any way to distinguish between them or we have to memorize it?

thanks


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## RimeoftheAncientMariner

Sigara içme yasağı - The Prohibition of Smoking

sigara içmenin cezası - The Penalty of Smoking


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## pekka123

I know that I mean why there is no nin in the first sentence but there is in the seconde one


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## bouquinistesofunderworld

Undefined compound nouns take a suffix to only the second noun, and the first noun is in nominative case. There is a rather general than specific relationship like "possession" between the two nouns. 

Take a look here.

[CODE]http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_35[/CODE]


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## Rallino

It's a difficult question.

I think that if it is something that appears on a "sign" or is used like a warning, or like a title, the more compact form is preferred. We try to get rid of unnecessary suffixes.


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## Gemmenita

pekka123 said:


> (...)
> sigara içme yasağı
> sigara içmenin cezasi
> why the first sentence doesn´t have nin on içme but the second sentence has nin on içme is there any way to distinguish between them or we have to memorize it?(...)




Hello pekka,

Why the first one doesn't have '-nin' and the second one is with '-nin'? For the same reason that I explained in this page about the difference between
'buzullar*ın* erimesi' and 'kurtarma çalışmaları'!

And then...No, you don't have to memorize...The way to distinguish is rather _conceptual_ and this is the _context_ which helps you. You can distinguish from
the _meaning_ and your _intention_ of using genitive structure and _what you have in mind_.
That's why, most of the time, for the same couple of word, you can make a structure both with '-nin/un...' and without '-nin//un...' for the first word!

For example:

How much is the penalty of smoking ?= Sigara içme cezasi ne kadar? >>> you have in mind the concept of 'The penalty of smoking' in general.

The penalty of smoking is X Lira = Sigara içme*nin* cezasi X lira.>>> You have in mind the concept of possession: the penalty only for smoking and not for other things.

I give you another example for the same couple of word (Okul müdürü) in different contexts:

Okul müdürü = school manager ( as a job _in general_) in a sentence like: _Okul müdürü,_ derse girmez. = A school manager doesn't take class. ( a school manager in general)
Okulun müdürü = the manager of the school >>> in a sentence like : Bu okulun müdürü çok merhametli. = The manager of this school is very kind. ( possession: we know of which school manager we are talking)

İyi çalışmalar, pekka!


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## RimeoftheAncientMariner

Plus the post by Ms. Gemmenita and other explanations :

sigara içme yasağı ( The situation of that There is a prohibitation against smoking )

sigara içmenin cezasi ( The penalty that follows smoking )

sigara içmenin yasağı - The prohibitation brought on smoking

sigara içmenin cezası - The penalty that accompanies smoking


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