# la bellezza di (quantità)



## FJ1200

Ciao tutti

Ho trovato questo in un rapporto dalla gara MotoGP dalla domenica scorsa: »... Rossi... che accusa la bellezza di 22 secondi dal vincitore.«

Che significa la frase corsiva, per favore?

G. i. a.,
FJ


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## Grtngs

Ciao FJ, 
"la bellezza di" è una frase idiomatica che si riferisce di solito a delle quantità:
Es:
-ho aspettato la bellezza di due ore sotto la pioggia!
-la balena pesa la bellezza di 30 tonnellate
Come puoi intuire l'espressione viene usata per sottintendere che la quantità oggetto della frase (in questo caso i 22 secondi di distacco) è considerevole.

Per quanto riguarda accusare, in questo caso è usato come sinonimo di "ha preso" "si è beccato" 22 secondi ecc.

Ciao

G


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## baldpate

Dalla tua spiegazione, Grtngs, mi sembra che "la bellezza di" equivale all'espressione inglese "the best part of".

-ho aspettato la bellezza di due ore sotto la pioggia!
=I waited the best part of two hours in the rain!

-la balena pesa la bellezza di 30 tonnellate
=the whale weighed the best part of 30 tons

-Rossi ... che accusa la bellezza di 22 secondi dal vincitore
=Rossi ... who pinched (???) the best part of 22 seconds from the winner

Credo che abbia quasi lo stesso significato di "a good"="ben"- ad esempio "ben 20 chilometri"="a good 20 kilometers".


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## Memimao

I think the sense is more sarcastic than emphatic. Rossi finishing 22 seconds behind the winner not a nice thing (una bellezza). But rather it is surprising.

The sense is more Rossi... who suffered a _good _22 second time lag.

Similarly: the whale weighs a good 30 tons and I waited for a good 2 hours. 

The _best part of_ I tend to read as "almost" or "very nearly", but _bellezza_ doesn't really quantify for me


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## baldpate

Hi Memimao,

I've only just noticed your post.  Thanks for explaining.  Yes, I take your point about "the best part of" meaning "very nearly" - one would never say "I waited for you for the best part of two hours", if in fact one had waited two and a half hours!.  Perhaps simply "a good" is the nearest general equivalent in English .  

Did you mean that "la bellezza di" always has a sarcastic edge to it? Or just in the case of the Rossi example, and that in other cases it simply emphasizes the surpising magnitude of the quantity so qualified?


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## Memimao

baldpate said:


> Hi Memimao,
> 
> I've only just noticed your post. Thanks for explaining. Yes, I take your point about "the best part of" meaning "very nearly" - one would never say "I waited for you for the best part of two hours", if in fact one had waited two and a half hours!. Perhaps simply "a good" is the nearest general equivalent in English .
> 
> Did you mean that "la bellezza di" always has a sarcastic edge to it? Or just in the case of the Rossi example, and that in other cases it simply emphasizes the surpising magnitude of the quantity so qualified?


 

Better let a native answer that one. Certainly it can frequently have that edge.


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## FedericaM

It can be used in both ways. Usually it only emphasize (i.e. Mamma, ti ho aspettato per la bellezza di mezz'ora!), but in certain cases it is also a little bit sarcastic, but I'm not sure. In Valentino's case this expression can just be related to the amount of time, that for his standars seems to be very huge!

I hope that this can help you guys!


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## Memimao

FedericaM said:


> It can be used in both ways. Usually it only emphasizes (i.e. Mamma, ti ho aspettato per la bellezza di mezz'ora!), but in certain cases it is also a little bit sarcastic, but I'm not sure. In Valentino's case this expression can just be related to the amount of time, that for his standards seems to be very huge!
> 
> I hope that this can help you guys!


 
Helps a lot. Thanks. N.B. No _very_ with srong adjectives


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## baldpate

Thanks for the explanation, Federica - looks like it is one of those things that depends upon the context and the way you actually speak the words.


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## housecameron

To me it's just an emphatic expression meaning _grande quantità / lunga durata._
Of course, anybody is happy when waiting many hours for a person to come or watching a very long movie.


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## FedericaM

Yes, you are right! Only the way of speaking can tell you if the expression is used sarcastically..
Thanks for the corrections Menimao!


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## FJ1200

Grazie a tutti,
FJ


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## Fravahe

Ciao a tutti e grazie a chi risponderà.

Non riesco a trovare un'espressione in inglese che sia analoga a questa:

"con la bellezza (nel senso di "niente meno") di 300 stanze, l'hotel è uno dei più grandi dell'isola".

Avreste dei suggerimenti?

Grazie ancora.


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## Paulfromitaly

To the tune of 300 rooms.


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## baldpate

Ciao Fravahe,

Direi o "with a good 300 rooms" o "with no less than 300 rooms" (quest' ultimo grazie al tuo accenno a "niente meno").


@Paul: credo che "to the tune of" non sarebbe scorretto in certi contesti, ma non lo userei qua. Normalmente si sente in riferimento ai soldi - "US is a net creditor *to the tune of* $600bn"/"The defendant lost his case and had to pay damages to the tune of £1 million."/"A new Rolls Royce will set you back to the tune of £100,000"


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## GavinW

Also:
"With as many as 300 rooms"
Or also:
"With fully 300 rooms" (but this solution is used less frequently, and sounds slightly more formal, and perhaps a bit less "natural")


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## TrentinaNE

"With as many as 300 rooms" sounds a bit odd to me.  In AE, we tend to use "with as many as" in situations where the outcome is unknown or variable, but either the hotel has 300+ rooms or it doesn't. In AE, you'd simply say "With over 300 rooms..." (unless the hotel has exactly 300, in which case "With 300 rooms..." but with some positive adjective after the number ).

Elisabetta


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## GavinW

TrentinaNE said:


> "With as many as 300 rooms" sounds a bit odd to me. In AE, we tend to use "with as many as" in situations where the outcome is unknown or variable, but either the hotel has 300+ rooms or it doesn't. In AE, you'd simply say "With over 300 rooms..." (unless the hotel has exactly 300, in which case "With 300 rooms..." but with some positive adjective after the number ).
> 
> Elisabetta


 
Interesting. Didn't know there was a BE/AE split on this one...

Also (in both AE and BE, of course): "With no fewer than...". Note: this is probably also expressed sometimes as "With no less than..." (although, technically, the grammar books tell us we can only say "fewer" here, not "less")  ;-)


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## Zusi

Hi everyone,

I'm translating this sentence: "il sole notturno fa capolino in mezzo alle nuvole alla bellezza delle 11" (it's part of a journey diary) - how can I translate "alla bellezza delle"? Maybe "the night sun appears among the clouds at no less than 11pm?" but it doesn't really sound good to me. 

Thanks for your help


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## Paulfromitaly

Zusi said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm translating this sentence: "il sole notturno fa capolino in mezzo alle nuvole alla bellezza delle 11" (it's part of a journey diary) - how can I translate "alla bellezza delle"? Maybe "the night sun appears among the clouds at no less than 11pm?" but it doesn't really sound good to me.
> 
> Thanks for your help


Hai consultato il dizionario?


> bellezza - Dizionario italiano-inglese WordReference
> 
> (quantità)
> ho pagato la* bellezza di *160.000 lire I paid 160,000 lire, no less
> ha impiegato l*a bellezza di* 2 anni a finirlo he took a good 2 years to finish it


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## Zusi

Ciao Paulfromitaly,

sì, l'ho consultato, ma non ho trovato esempi simili a quello che devo tradurre: 

ho pagato la* bellezza di *160.000 lire I paid 160,000 lire, no less 
e
ha impiegato l*a bellezza di* 2 anni a finirlo he took a good 2 years to finish it

si riferiscono entrambi a quantità (di denaro o di tempo), ma quello che devo dire io è che il sole è comparso a un orario per noi insolito, non si tratta di una quantità, e da qui il mio dubbio.


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## Odysseus54

Magari "..as late as.." ?


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## tsoapm

Zusi said:


> "il sole notturno fa capolino in mezzo alle nuvole alla bellezza delle 11"


A free attempt, if I’ve understood the sense correctly:
"the night sun finally peeps out from between the clouds at 11 a.m."

What might the _sole notturno_ → night sun be, by the way? The moon, when waxing (arf arf) poetic?


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## Odysseus54

When I went to Finland in the summer of 1970, the sun was still up in the sky well after 11.00 pm -  I think that's what it means.  I remember that very well - and how cold the sea water was after sitting in the sauna for a few minutes  

If I understand the context correctly, you don't have a 'finally' here, but maybe a 'still'.

"The night sun is still peeping out from between the clouds as late as 11 p.m."


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## tsoapm

_Le 11_ can be the night? I’m a bit confused, I must say, but more context seems to be in order!


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## Odysseus54

tsoapm said:


> _Le 11_ can be the night?



Why not ?  In spoken Italian we seldom use military time.  That's why sometimes we are late


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## tsoapm

Ah beh, allora non ho fatto caso, guardando sempre l'italiano scritto. Dal contesto si capisce subito, si vede! Un diario questo, comunque, ma immagino sia uguale, in sostanza.


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## Odysseus54

tsoapm said:


> Ah beh, allora non ho fatto caso, guardando sempre l'italiano scritto. Dal contesto si capisce subito, si vede! Un diario questo, comqunque, ma immagino sia uguale, in sostanza.



I said 'spoken', I should have said 'informal'.  And I suspect there may be regional differences as well as 'city/country' differences in the usage.  Where I live (Central, rural area) nobody would say 'ci vediamo alle diciotto' - I could perhaps hear it from someone trying to come across as intellectually polished, or up to date with the latest fashions.  But folks would say 'ci vediamo alle sei'.  But in Milan, if I remember correctly, people would tend to use military time more often.


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## johngiovanni

I don't know whether I am understanding the idiom correctly when it is used in the context of a particular time.
In English (at least in UK English), with reference to a particular time which is considered by the speaker / writer to be particularly early, particularly late, or unusual, we sometimes use the expression "at the grand hour of".
In this context, and assuming the time is 11 p.m., that would be "...at the grand hour of 11 p.m."
(I came across "Il nostro gattone ieri sera è tornato alla base, alla bellezza delle 23.00. Che vagabondo, è la prima volta che rientra cosi tardi."  (Here I think "...at the grand hour of 11 p.m." would work.)


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## Odysseus54

The idiom is generally referred to a quantity, and it's informal.  "L'avvocato ha voluto la bellezza di 2.500 eurozzi/neuri", for instance.  And it implies that the quantity is excessive.

Using it with the time of the day is not, in my opinion, standard usage.  Having said that, it is obviously a way to emphasize that it's (in this case, and for the writer) unusually late.  

It sounds like "the grand hour" fits the bill, doesn't it ?  Although it doesn't seem to be the most common idiom among the English-speaking people.


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## tsoapm

It isn’t an expression that would have occurred to me, but it seems ok.


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## Russell2008

I have to translate the following sentence:
Già all’inizio dell’800 la città di Gragnano era diventata celebre per la qualità dei suoi maccheroni e si contavano la bellezza di 70 pastifici.

I don' t know how "contare la bellezza di" can be translated....

At the beginning of the 19th century, the town of Gragnano was already renowned for the quality of its maccheroni and there were already 70 pasta factories in the area.

Could anyone help me?
Thank you very much.


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## chipulukusu

"At the beginning of the 19th century, the town of Gragnano was already renowned for the quality of its maccheroni _with a staggering_ 70 pasta factories in _its_ area."


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## rrose17

Note that in English we usually write "macaroni".   I like chip's "staggering" but wonder about "its area". Sounds odd to me. Maybe you could invert slightly to give
_At the beginning of the 19th century, already renowned for the quality of its macaroni, the town of Gragnano boasted a staggering 70 pasta factories._

A question: were these in fact what we would call factories, which to me implies large buildings? Maybe producers would be better? ._..70 different producers of pasta._


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