# Climate change



## Dawei

What is the general opinion in your country on climate change, including such questions as: 

Is global warming man made?

Is it a serious threat?

Are current emissions reductions sufficient? 

How are you reacting to it on a personal level?


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## cuchuflete

This may be of interest:  *Global warming*


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## Valeria Mesalina

Dawei said:


> What is the general opinion in your country on climate change, including such questions as:


 
In Spain, and from what is usually written on newspapers:

*Is global warming man made?*

- Yes, global warming is all our fault.

*Is it a serious threat?*

- Very serious. Half of the Spanish coastline will disappear under the sea.

*Are current emissions reductions sufficient? *

- No, there are still too many cars driving around and we should use public transport. That public transport is nonexistent in many places is not taken into account. 

*How are you reacting to it on a personal level?*

- Just recycling what I can, as much as everyone else I know.


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## Outsider

My impression would just be an opinion. But I found a couple of polls (the first link is to a slightly opinionated blog post, but it has a link to a reference):

http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/09/eurobarometer-czechs-have-smartest.html
http://www.eukn.org/portugal/news/2007/03/momentum-climate-change_1020.html


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## sokol

I'll try and give the general opinion as stated in *Austrian *media (I don't have any statistics, that's just what my impression of public opinion is):

*Is global warming man made?*

There is a general consensus in Austria that global warming is man-made; only a small minority still won't believe it.
So the answer is: Yes.

 *Is it a serious threat?*

Again, the answer is: Yes.
Austria has no cost. However, glaciers are melting in Austria, and ski resorts absolutely depend on artificial snow already: there's hardly a ski resort left which don't makes its own snow.
And Austria is a nation of ski fanatics: that finally played an important role on public opinion realising that climate change is a threat.
 
*Are current emissions reductions sufficient? *

Well, emission reductions are mentioned in the media frequently; also because of EU regulations, but it is also considered important on a national level.
The European Union is less strict concerning emissions (and ecology in general) than Austria but still EU has at least guidelines for all EU members (which is at least more than some other nations can claim).
If it comes to the question wether those emission reductions are sufficient the media regularly comes to the conclusion that most certainly they are not.
Still, at EU level progress is very slow when it comes to cut down emissions further. So to conclude: Austrians (and the EU) do know that current measures are not sufficient, but rather little is done to improve the situation.

 *How are you reacting to it on a personal level?*

Oh, I do what can easily be done. I could do much more but as most of my compatriots I am a little bit lazy even though I see climate change as much more of a threat than most Austrians do.


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## french4beth

Dawei said:


> What is the general opinion in your country on climate change, including such questions as:
> 
> Is global warming man made?yes, but it started a long time ago (IMHO), when coal was used as a heat source - I believe that scientists can trace "acid rain" back to the late 1800's; there are also planetary cycles but our industrialized culture has really mucked things up with pollution
> 
> Is it a serious threat?absolutely
> 
> Are current emissions reductions sufficient? not nearly enough - most people don't realize how serious this issue is & how it threatens the entire planet & future generations
> 
> How are you reacting to it on a personal level?try to drive only when I have to, use public transportation when possible, keep the heat low in the winter & when I'm not at home, use fans rather than air conditioners in the summer, use appliances (washer, dryer, etc) during "non-peak"hours (evenings & weekends, rather than during regular business hours); recycle everything I possibly can & purchase gently used items when possible; avoid purchasing anything with excessive packaging


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## Titi Hilda

Is global warming man made? Yes, thru the ages man has done things that have altered the landscape of the earth. The forests, especially, have been devastated.

Is it a serious threat? That I am not sure of. I hear about miles of ice separating on the Northen Regions. Some will say it is due to global warming. But then I hear that the ice may actually cool the waters? I saw a presentation on the internet by an administration of The U.S. and the impression I got was that we would probably freeze before we get hotter? 

How are you reacting to it on a personal level? It saddens me that we humans have not taken good care of our mother earth. 

To end on a positive note, Governments and institutions are proactively working towards ways to save the planet. Education, monitoring and enforcement are key to a better world.


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## tomzenith

Dawei said:


> Is global warming man made? Most people (including myself) would say yes, a significant number of people would say vague things like 'it's impossible to tell' or 'I don't really know'. But there are also many people who still would say no - as an example, there is a Facebook group with 500,00 members campaigning for climate change sceptic and professional dickhead Jeremy Clarkson to be Priminister.
> 
> Is it a serious threat? Again, most people would probably say yes (those that believe it's actually happening), though it's normally not seen as an immediate threat. If you mention global warming at the moment here, many people will tell you that we shouldn't be worrying about it during a recession.
> 
> Are current emissions reductions sufficient? (Leaving aside the section of the population who don't believe it's happening, don't believe it's man-made, or simply don't care..) No. Definitely not. The (Uk) government commissioned Stern Review of 2006 concluded that a cut of 60-80% by the yaer 2050 would be necessary to avoid risking serious consequences, which Stern estimated would cost roughly 1% of the country's GDP. We're nowhere near an agreement like that. One of the flaws of the Stern Review was that it didn't take into account the international politics of climate change - that annual carbon emmisions don't tell the whole story. Though the annual carbon emissions of the Uk might not only be 5 times that of a developing country, a far higher proportion of the CO2 in the atmosphere (and other greenhouses gasses) has been produced by the Uk over the last few centuries. Many environmental groups have called for a (not impossible) cut of 90-100% by 2030, claiming that this is the only way to avoid dramatic environmental consequences *and *share the burden of sustainable development evenly (still allowing developing countries to develop). Whatever your opinion of the politics of the situation, it's fairly clear that the very timid reductions being proposed at the moment fall a long way short of what's needed.
> 
> How are you reacting to it on a personal level? What I can.


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## Etcetera

Dawei said:


> What is the general opinion in your country on climate change,


I have the impression that the general opinion is becoming quire ironic here in Russia. Talk about global warming when it's April, and it's about 0...+4 degrees centigrade!


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## Sepia

Dawei said:


> What is the general opinion in your country on climate change, including such questions as:
> 
> Is global warming man made?
> 
> Is it a serious threat?
> 
> Are current emissions reductions sufficient?
> 
> How are you reacting to it on a personal level?


 

It is my impression that Germans in general see it as a big problem.

It is also my impression that although the greater majority believe it is manmade, increasing numbers of people are beginning to have doubts about this.


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## Judica

Is global warming man made?

In some places, particularly when thinking of the destruction of forestland. Excessive mining and deforestation do not help.

 Is it a serious threat?

I believe so to a degree. In places where forests once stood the shade, cool breeze, oxygen level, and water balance is gone.

Are current emissions reductions sufficient? 

No, unless people replant certain areas and take care of others, there will be too small an amount of trees / shrubbery /etc to take in the carbon and return it as oxygen.

How are you reacting to it on a personal level?

I get civic leaders to plant trees.

Water and air are worth more than gold.


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## dary

Dawei said:


> Is global warming man made?


I'm sure that until sometime during the late 1980s, the average Joe Bloggs in the UK had never heard of global warming, the ozone layer, the greenhouse effect, the melting of the polar caps, etc. Then all of a sudden it became a huge issue in the media and we even started to have classes about it at school. However, as I recall, the issue of whether or not it was man-made or just part of a natural cycle (seeing as the earth comes in and out of ice ages) was still very much in question. Also, apparently we wouldn't really feel its consequences in *our *lifetime, it was a long-term issue about our future on planet Earth.
But now, just 20 years on, it seems that every hurricane, tidal wave, earthquake, or even strangely mild & sunny winter day in Skegness is blamed on global warming... that thing they told us would have no noticeable affect for at least another 200 years. 
So, although I know that certain groups have a vested interest in denying that global warming is man-made (governments, industry), and also that some people have an I'm-all-right-Jack "What's all this global warming bollocks about?" kind of attitude (Jeremy Clarkson), I can understand why others are sceptical about the issue and (without wanting to sound like some conspiracy theorist idiot) don't believe everything they are told.


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## PABLO DE SOTO

In Spain there is no public controversy about the climate change. The media, the authorities, the politicians ( with few but notorious exceptions in the conservative party) agree that the climate change is real and we have to fight against it.
But as many other issues, one thing is what is said in public and another one what is said in private.
I have heard all kind of opinions in private or anonymously that go from those who firmly believe in the climate change and are really worried about the coming catastrophes if we do nothing against it, to those who think that the climate change is a big lie with hidden intentions.
There are in the middle ,though, those who think there is something real in the climate change, or that is totally real , but its consequences on the earth have been overstated, those who think it is a good idea to have a better control on our resources trying not to waste them but that do not believe that every storm out of season, every simple abnormality is due to the climate change and the _sins_ of the mankind.


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## Larouge

In France, we hear a lot about climate change and we start to create measures to help people (financially) to have an isolated house, to help car industry to improve electrical car autonomy.
 
However these measures are new and of course insufficient facing the catastrophe coming-up !
 
However, we have to go to work everyday and drive the children at school. This can’t be changed unless you decide to change completely of life.
 
Technologically, we are about to have all we need to avoid pollution BUT
 
People will have to buy new cars, have better isolated houses, use the sun energy, the problem is that they don’t have the money for that ! Most of people try to “survive”.
 
Plus will the oil producers let us use another energy ?
 
Personally, I try to recycle when I can, I quit buying products from hypermarkets and buy products coming from fair trade, grow trees (in my garden) and I am now very motivated to do some voluntary work !


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## SDLX Master

Environmental awareness is not precisely a massive concept among us Peruvians, but those of us who do care, we share the same spirit expressed by most of our fellow foreros.


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## Dmitry_86

Global warming... A very serious problem, indeed. I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia - the city that has alsways been considered Northern. No wonder, that at least 40-50 years ago we used to have extremely severe winters when the temperatures sometimes dropped below minus 30 degrees in Jenuary and February. The situation in our capital - in Moscow- albeit a tad warmer was nearly the same. However, now everything has changed dramatically. Of course, we still have winters but are they real winters? I have been questioning this statement for 4-5 years already!!!

Formerly, winters began at the end of November followed by heavy snowfalls, blizzards, big snowdrifts. Now even in December and January it is difficult to find snow because it either has not fallen at all or has melted instantaneously. Furhermore, ski resorts that are located in the suburbs used to be full of tourists since December, now only since the middle of February. It often rains in winters which is not typical for this season of the year. Also, the temperatures are around zero and is is often like a thaw rather than frost. In other words, winters have recently become similar to springs. This is the evidence of global warming. So soon, I hope, we will start exporting oranges and bananas to Spain, for example, or to Africa .

As regards the reasons, definitely man is responsible. Pollution is very heavy. Too much of it in the cities, in the country - everywhere. Besides, the ozone layer is depleted causing the greenhouse effect, the latter speeding the process of ice melting.


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## Sepia

Dmitry_86 said:


> Global warming... A very serious problem, indeed. I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia - the city that has alsways been considered Northern. No wonder, that at least 40-50 years ago we used to have extremely severe winters when the temperatures sometimes dropped below minus 30 degrees in Jenuary and February. The situation in our capital - in Moscow- albeit a tad warmer was nearly the same. However, now everything has changed dramatically. Of course, we still have winters but are they real winters? I have been questioning this statement for 4-5 years already!!!
> 
> Formerly, winters began at the end of November followed by heavy snowfalls, blizzards, big snowdrifts. Now even in December and January it is difficult to find snow because it either has not fallen at all or has melted instantaneously. Furhermore, ski resorts that are located in the suburbs used to be full of tourists since December, now only since the middle of February. It often rains in winters which is not typical for this season of the year. Also, the temperatures are around zero and is is often like a thaw rather than frost. In other words, winters have recently become similar to springs. This is the evidence of global warming. So soon, I hope, we will start exporting oranges and bananas to Spain, for example, or to Africa .
> 
> As regards the reasons, definitely man is responsible. Pollution is very heavy. Too much of it in the cities, in the country - everywhere. Besides, the ozone layer is depleted causing the greenhouse effect, the latter speeding the process of ice melting.


 
Only, what we still do not know is how much ice had melted and what caused the warm period back in those days when the Vikings settled on Greenland as wheat-farmers ... 

CO2 emissions - if so where did it come from?


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## Dmitry_86

Sepia said:


> Only, what we still do not know is how much ice had melted and what caused the warm period back in those days when the Vikings settled on Greenland as wheat-farmers ...
> 
> CO2 emissions - if so where did it come from?


 
How much ice has melted so far? Definitely, not the most difficult question to answer. Of course, you will need special equipment and some observations to estimate this amount exactly but it is possible to do this approximately in order to extract the global trend. There are several cities that are very close to sea: Venice, Amsterdam and the city I live in - Saint-Petersburg. When I was in Venice, the guide even showed us a special flood mark on St. Mark's square, which borders on sea and helps one find out how much has the water risen already or in comparison with the previous year. The same mark is in Saint-Petersburg. I have heard some pessimistic forecasts that in some years (I do not remember the number) some coastal cities will sink, rather, may sink if nothing is done to improve the situation or reinforce the buidings, piers, etc. I do not want to believe in these predictions because my city is nearly as close to sea as Venice and even in spite of the dike preventing the water from the Baltic sea from flooding Saint-Petersburg we might face some problems. 

About CO2 emissions - from cars, buses and other fuel-run vehicles. Besides, deforestation, which causes less CO2 to be absorbed by trees and hence be emissioned in the atmosphere.


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## Grux

Dmitry_86 said:


> Besides, the ozone layer is depleted causing the greenhouse effect, the latter speeding the process of ice melting.


 
Dmitry, let me make a correction. 
The reason for the global warming seems to be the increase in the greenhouse effect (it is a natural effect but it is supposed to be increased by human activities due to the emission of some gases). _However, the ozone layer has nothing to do whit this. _Greenhouse effect is related to inward and outward _infrared_ radiation fluxes, while ozone layer affects only the _ultraviolet_ radiation. Also, the gases supposedly responsible for the ozone depletion are not the same as the ones increasing the greenhouse effect.

Regards


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## Macunaíma

A recent survey carried out by the Pew Global Attitudes Project revealed that the Brazilians are the most concerned about the issue of global warming -- 90% consider it a serious problem, against 44% in the U.S. (in the U.S. the same survey shows that 63% of Democrats and only 17% of Republicans consider it serious), 30% in China and and 67% in India (just to mention the major polluters). The survey also revealed that 79% of Brazilians believe that protecting the environment should be prioritized even if it means slower economic growth and that 48% of the respondents in Brazil would be willing to pay more for environmentaly-friendly products, against 41% in the U.S., 54% in Germany and 51% in France. 

Research carried out in 2007 by a Brazilian institute showed that among the poorer Brazilians (people with up to 5 years of schooling and who live on minimum wage) 80 to 81 percent consider global warming a serious issue (this is probably a reflection of how massively the media here reports on environmental issues). According to this same survey, 53% of Brazilians as a whole believe that the developed countries are the main culprits of global warming, while 33% think that developing countries are equally to blame. As regards the effects of global warming, the chief concerns of Brazilians are the decrease of agricultural productivity, droughts, floodings and the extinction of animal and plant species.

Sources:

http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/264.pdf (pages 87-91)
http://www.wwf.org.br/empresas_meio_ambiente/publicacoes_artigos/?11081 (link to report published on WWF Brazil website, in Portuguese, where you can find a link to the research mentioned in the second paragraph, also in Portuguese)


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## Dmitry_86

Grux said:


> Dmitry, let me make a correction.
> The reason for the global warming seems to be the increase in the greenhouse effect (it is a natural effect but it is supposed to be increased by human activities due to the emission of some gases). _However, the ozone layer has nothing to do whit this. _Greenhouse effect is related to inward and outward _infrared_ radiation fluxes, while ozone layer affects only the _ultraviolet_ radiation. Also, the gases supposedly responsible for the ozone depletion are not the same as the ones increasing the greenhouse effect.
> 
> Regards


 
Thanks very much!!! You are a true expert in ecology!!!


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## TRG

It's true, we have warmed up about 0.5 deg C in the past half century, but I'm very skeptical of our ability to model long term climate trends and even more skeptical of our ability to have any effect on global warming by trying to mange CO2 emissions.  CO2 is a relatively minor greenhouse gas in the overall scheme of things.  I do not believe you will ever see any significant reduction in the amount of CO2 emissions and we probably will not even be able to slow the growth of CO2 emissions unless there is a complete collapse of the global economy.  People in the U.S. have grown tired of the alarmism so I don't look for much to happen on the political front.  Facts could change this, but it is going to take a while and if the alarmist view is correct, by then it will be too late.


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## Larouge

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you TRG.
 
40 years following the first climate international agreements we only made few strides whereas we would need a real economic revolution.
 
But little consumers like us can turn the situation around, we only need to be all well informed.
 
Governments and medias are much too discreet on the subject however, we have a wonderful asset : Internet. It brings the entire world ideas closer thanks to associations. Added with new technology discharging less CO2, we have the ball in our court : do we take the corner or do we crach into the wall ?
 
Of course people from industrialized countries will have to do sacrifices and most of it we will have to all act together (helping the poorest countries). We need an international movement imposing the rules (a kind of more powerful ONU specialized in environment).


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## Sepia

Macunaíma said:


> A recent survey carried out by the Pew Global Attitudes Project revealed that the Brazilians are the most concerned about the issue of global warming -- 90% consider it a serious problem, against 44% in the U.S. (in the U.S. the same survey shows that 63% of Democrats and only 17% of Republicans consider it serious), 30% in China and and 67% in India (just to mention the major polluters). The survey also revealed that 79% of Brazilians believe that protecting the environment should be prioritized even if it means slower economic growth and that 48% of the respondents in Brazil would be willing to pay more for environmentaly-friendly products, against 41% in the U.S., 54% in Germany and 51% in France.
> 
> Research carried out in 2007 by a Brazilian institute showed that among the poorer Brazilians (people with up to 5 years of schooling and who live on minimum wage) 80 to 81 percent consider global warming a serious issue (this is probably a reflection of how massively the media here reports on environmental issues). According to this same survey, 53% of Brazilians as a whole believe that the developed countries are the main culprits of global warming, while 33% think that developing countries are equally to blame. As regards the effects of global warming, the chief concerns of Brazilians are the decrease of agricultural productivity, droughts, floodings and the extinction of animal and plant species.
> 
> Sources:
> 
> http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/264.pdf (pages 87-91)
> http://www.wwf.org.br/empresas_meio_ambiente/publicacoes_artigos/?11081 (link to report published on WWF Brazil website, in Portuguese, where you can find a link to the research mentioned in the second paragraph, also in Portuguese)


 


I wonder if the Brazilians are especially "worried" because they produce more biofuel than most countries. It is alleged that production/consumption of biofuel means +- 0 in CO2 emission. However, when economy is slumping and the crude oil price with it, gasoline grows cheaper than bio-ethanol. A possible way of changing that would be to change politician's will to tax fossile fuels. So the more we worry about CO2 emission the better it will be to the bio-fuel industry.


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## Miguelillo 87

First of all I want to say all your opinons ans comments are so interesting, with those I can realize how hard is wlobal warming affecting all the earth.

Here (what I can conclude) Mexico's situation

*Is global warming man made?*

Yes, not only the society thinks it, also the governament states it. 

*Is it a serious threat?*

Yes It is, we have a lot of coast cities, ans also a lot of resorts as Cancún, Acapulco, Los Cabos, Puerto Vallarta etc, Which are the engines of tourism activity in Mexico.

Furthermore, Now we are having big but very big problems with water, years ago, since June rains have alredy arrived now it's Spetember and rain it's begging a lot of crpos in the north are losen, cattle are dying, and in Major cities water it's not enough, Her ein Mexico city (the capital) We are beign cut down water, in my district (as in almost all the district on the city) we only receive water 3 hrs per day. 

In the countryside situation is herder, a lot of laggons and lakes are drying, winters are not anymore cold, as a matter of fact it seems sprign all the time, 5 yrs ago I used to get my jacket, gloves and scarf in winter in order to go to school nowadays all those clothes are always in the closet!!! 

*Are current emissions reductions sufficient? *

Not at all. In the city we are trying to do sth, Major has made a lot of public transport, avenues with only electrical buses, he wants to add more lñines to the subway, Federal gov, has made a lot of reforestation but It's not enough, companies pollutes more and person in city are not given up to use their cars. 


*How are you reacting to it on a personal level?* 

Well I use saving light bulbs in all my house, I don't have a car, I only turn on the electrical stuff I use; I recycle all cans and plastic I can.
I have a lot of plants adn trees in my house and I also try to teach my grandparents and mother to do the same, I'd like to do more.


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## Hakro

* Is global warming man made?*
Nobody really knows.
*
 Is it a serious threat?
*Nobody really knows.

* Are current emissions reductions sufficient? *
Not at all, and we should have started it a long time ago, but this is because of the energy consumption, not only the emissions.
*
 How are you reacting to it on a personal level?*
I've been taught to save energy when I was a kid - some sixty years ago. I've been taught to assort the waste when I was a kid - some sixty years ago. There's nothing new to me.
* 

*


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## Lupen The Third

Question : Is global warming man made?

Answer: Of course. Man is (slowly) destroying the planet. Under every kind point of view.

Question : Is it a serious threat?

Answer: I would say that it is one of the most serious problems of the XXI century.
But no one cares in reality. Why should people (most of them) think about global warming if they have money or power?Nowdays, most of the persons want just power and money. Blinded by these things, they forgot everything else.

Question : Are current emissions reductions sufficient? 

Answer: No. They are not sufficient. Petrol is still the main source of energy today, but we could produce with no problem new kind of energies form the sun, water, wind and so on. So : for who are we awaiting for ?

Question : How are you reacting to it on a personal level?

Answer: I try to save energy when it comes possible to me, I try to  recycle all I can.
I would improve the efficiency and the security of the means of transport, reducing the numbers of the cars on the streets...

ルパン三世


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## Zarcero

Dawei said:


> What is the general opinion in your country on climate change, including such questions as:
> 
> Is global warming man made?
> 
> Is it a serious threat?
> 
> Are current emissions reductions sufficient?
> 
> How are you reacting to it on a personal level?


 
Both in Costa Rica and the US the general opinions conflict. I am not sure this thread, and even my post does not violate the forum rules. However,...,

My personal opinion is that "global warming" is simply another political tool. Other forecasted scares I recall during my life are (1) Malthusian food shortages, (2) global cooling, and (3) ozone layer depletion. Those all proved false. Now we have the current fad of global warming.

I do agree stongly that pollutants should not be thrown into the air, however, CO2 is not a pollutant, and the evidence that supports it as a global warming source is technically on shaky ground. Hence the new word buzz word is now "climate change".


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## Miguelillo 87

Well ZARCERO as you said, maybe it''s just another political too, but what we have to agree it's to pollute it's wrong, I know you are stating that too, but I mean if we are cleaner, and "friendly" with the enviroment, This is not gonna cause nothing wrong? So it's better to help the planet don't u think?


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## Zarcero

I absolutely agree about the pollutants.  However, CO2 is not a pollutant, which is currently what is being cited as the cause of global warming.


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## Lupen The Third

Greetings, my two poor cents :

I agree and understand that CO2 is not a pollutant. I think also that it is not the only cause of global warming; but , with no doubts, one of the causes...

Regards,
ルパン三世


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## tvdxer

Question : Is global warming man made?

Answer: Possibly.  However, I am skeptical about the mainstream theories and think that man's contribution is small in comparison to other sources.

Question : Is it a serious threat?

Answer: I doubt that climate change will have any serious, catastrophic effect.  The sky certainly won't fall.  Perhaps if we simply persist in our ways we can exacerbate it enough to be problematic, but like Y2K, we'll probably respond sufficiently.  In addition, there might be benefits to the earth getting warmer - a fertile (and livable) Northern Canada and Siberia.  

Question : Are current emissions reductions sufficient? 

Answer: Perhaps yes and perhaps no, but I think things will all fall into place before it gets too seriously.

Question : How are you reacting to it on a personal level?

Answer: I sometimes bike to my destinations, even though they are all very far away (I live in a rural area) - work is 8 mi / 13 km one-way and school about 14 mi / 20 km.  I try to save gas when I drive by driving intelligently, but some engine problems that have arisen recently mean I'm getting bad gas mileage anyway (though certainly better than if I did not drive efficiently).  I turn off lights / etc. to save energy, though I do this equally to save money on our power bills.


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## Sepia

Lupen The Third said:


> Question : Is global warming man made?
> 
> Answer: Of course. Man is (slowly) destroying the planet. Under every kind point of view.
> 
> ...
> 
> ルパン三世




If this is so, what caused the extremely warm climate in Northern Europe and some of the polar regions in the first half of the past millenium?


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## Miguelillo 87

tvdxer said:


> in comparison to other sources.
> 
> Question : Is it a serious threat?
> 
> Answer: I doubt that climate change will have any serious, catastrophic effect. The sky certainly won't fall. Perhaps if we simply persist in our ways we can exacerbate it enough to be problematic, but like Y2K, we'll probably respond sufficiently. In addition, there might be benefits to the earth getting warmer - a fertile (and livable) Northern Canada and Siberia.
> 
> .


 
Sure nothing serious if polar bears disapear, thousand of animal who depends on the cold wheatr it exists in those part, doesn't matter if salmon, whales die. if acres of boreal forest disspaear, THE IMPORTANT IS TO HAVE MORE FERTILE SOIL, Remmeber we are not the only species in the world, but as the only one who seems to be aware of our acts ans consequences, we should be more like the earth guards and not the earth destroyers.

As I said before, maybe you are right 'cause nobady can assure 100% why the eart is getting warmer, but Isn't better to help the earth insted of being the way we are, Maybe this polluted world can resist more and we are going to die and we are gonna say "It seems no global warming happend" but certainly if we continuo this day sth is going to happen, maybe the world is not going to dissapear in a big wake or a cold eternal winter, or in an infernal summer, but there's not going to be more potable water, not more fertile soil, not more animals or jungles.

Think about it it's not for us it's for the future if you don't care Well What a normal humna can do against it???


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## Lupen The Third

Sepia said:


> If this is so, what caused the extremely warm climate in Northern Europe and some of the polar regions in the first half of the past millenium?



Greetings Sepia,

I've never heard of this extremeley warm climate in Northern Europe in the first half of the past millenium, really. Realized that I did not know this thing I've googled a bit in order to search some good infos.

So on a forum I have seen that in the first half of the past millenium there was something like a mini Ice Age. 
Here is the forum in which I've found this information (it's in Italian sorry) >

http://forum.meteonetwork.it/meteorologia/3667-se-riscaldamento-globale-fosse-naturale.html (It's the third post)

On the other hand I have found also , on Internet, that between the 1500 and 1600 there was an extremeley warm climate as you said to me.

Now that I'm thinking more on this argument it is possible that in nature there are climatic cycles.

Ok, I have to review what I wrote...man is not the effective global warming maker but of course nowadays he is strongly contributing at it, speeding up this climatic cycle.

If I was wrong, I am ready to admit my defaillances.

But you quoted me also "Man is (slowly) destroying the planet".
Here this sentence was not only linked the the "Global warming" topic, I meant it in an general context...I did not specified it, sorry.

Anyway I think that you are of the same opion when I said that modern men (or most of them) are destroying the planet...I don't think that atomic bombs, deforestation being to the natural cycles or processes. Acid rains were not made by nature...

Best regards and sorry for my English.
ルパン三世

Edit: I agree with Miguelillo 87 at the 100% and I like his way of thinking about this topic


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## Larouge

Although I already gave my opinion, May I right something more ?
 
The fact is that we are actually (according to scientists) in a warm period. It is cyclic as everybody knows. The concern is that human activity is bringing the planet in a warm spiral bound. Scientists from almost every country have been working independently on the climate change, they all agree that greenhouse gas emissions are causing the temperature increase, the point is not here anymore. The point is that they don’t agree on the rush away of the increasing. The Japanese think we will increase 5°C while other countries think and hope it will be less. However, it seems that a 2°C increase would cause a huge break down in our ecosystem. A 2°C limit is selected for Copenhagen Convention agreements (happening in December 2009) about slowing down the global warming. 
 
Wake up skeptical people ! We have already been skeptical for too long time and now here we are ! Animals and plants are dying so quickly that no adaptation / mutation is possible ! Moreover, WATER (which is already a problem in some countries) are becoming a world problem ! Some countries recently concerned already try to take measures. We are told a lot about the increasing water level (ice cap melting) and disappearing coasts or islands, it is worst than that : the salted water would infiltrate ground water, destroying agriculture.
 
Read, inform yourselves, and react !
Is global warming a enormous world hoax ? A political tool ? To avoid global warming, rich countries are trying to agree in financing the others to slow down greenhouse emissions, it would cost them approx. 175 billions dollars a year !!! What a grat political tool !


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## Sepia

Lupen The Third said:


> Greetings Sepia,
> 
> I've never heard of this extremeley warm climate in Northern Europe in the first half of the past millenium, really. Realized that I did not know this thing I've googled a bit in order to search some good infos.
> 
> So on a forum I have seen that in the first half of the past millenium there was something like a mini Ice Age.
> Here is the forum in which I've found this information (it's in Italian sorry) >
> 
> http://forum.meteonetwork.it/meteorologia/3667-se-riscaldamento-globale-fosse-naturale.html (It's the third post)
> 
> On the other hand I have found also , on Internet, that between the 1500 and 1600 there was an extremeley warm climate as you said to me.
> 
> Now that I'm thinking more on this argument it is possible that in nature there are climatic cycles.
> 
> Ok, I have to review what I wrote...man is not the effective global warming maker but of course nowadays he is strongly contributing at it, speeding up this climatic cycle.
> 
> If I was wrong, I am ready to admit my defaillances.
> 
> But you quoted me also "Man is (slowly) destroying the planet".
> Here this sentence was not only linked the the "Global warming" topic, I meant it in an general context...I did not specified it, sorry.
> 
> Anyway I think that you are of the same opion when I said that modern men (or most of them) are destroying the planet...I don't think that atomic bombs, deforestation being to the natural cycles or processes. Acid rains were not made by nature...
> 
> Best regards and sorry for my English.
> ルパン三世
> 
> Edit: I agree with Miguelillo 87 at the 100% and I like his way of thinking about this topic


 
Vikings settled on Greenland, grew wheat and raised cattle there. Scandinavians even gave it a try with growing wine in the South of Scandinavia. Later the climate turned colder again and they gave up Greenland for a few centuries.

Today nobody grows any kind of grain on Greenland. They raise sheep but not cattle.


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## Miguelillo 87

Larouge said:


> . We are told a lot about the increasing water level (ice cap melting) and disappearing coasts or islands, it is worst than that : the salted water would infiltrate ground water, destroying agriculture.
> 
> Read, inform yourselves, and react !


 
Fot those who wants to know more facts, serch in youtube Maldivian islands sink and search a tv program, I think it's only in Spanish ,(I don't remember the name and I cannot open youtube in my workplace) and you will see maldivian islands are sinking, well not sinking but been covered by the sea, they are even building another islands!!!! so they can live there, so as you can see people nowadays it's been afected by the sea.

About cycles of earth I agree with all of you, I've already know about the mini ice age in the middle age, but I have a question for you. 

If climate change will be upside down, Would we be so calm??? 

I explain myself;if instead of wheater will be hotter, it will be colder??? What'd happened? 

I mean now every governament seems to be happy 'cause the artic it's melting and now ships can cross it, and new oil natural fields can be explored and exploted ($) 'cause more soil can be "fertile" but if instead of that ice will be increasing, cities full of snow which stop the economical activities, a Russia and canada under big snowstorms, AH that would be totally diferent right??? I mean if we menace animals and plants ecosystem DON'T WORRY!!! but if nature touches our cities or industries, We are lost and we start to worry! So let's think about. 

I know nature it's not a thing who thinks and will take revange of us, but let's think in a building, it doesn't have life but it's built to resist earthquakes, winds, and the daily use, but if we start to broke their supports, destroy its walls, don't clean it...What would happened? It's gonna fall!!! Maybe not tomorrow but no maintennace it's easy to see.

Same the planet it's a place who can resist too much, ecosystem are complicated and take thousnads of years to be the way we know them, and yes all the earth life had been hurracaines, earthquakes, volcanoes, tornados, etc but if we damage this ecosytems, they are not gonna support all the beats of the nature force. 

And as *Lupen* has said, maybe climate change it's a myth but we cannot deny there are another polluted issues we ar emeking a big contribution!!!


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## Lupen The Third

Sepia said:


> Vikings settled on Greenland, grew wheat and raised cattle there. Scandinavians even gave it a try with growing wine in the South of Scandinavia. Later the climate turned colder again and they gave up Greenland for a few centuries.
> 
> Today nobody grows any kind of grain on Greenland. They raise sheep but not cattle.



I did not know these things. Thank you very much for have informed me,
ルパン三世


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## laluka)

It is not a question of agreement; I think everybody is convinces the global warming is a fact. It is a problem of attitude: no one wants to take the extreme decisions to stop the emissions, the deforestation, the consumism...It is not easy and, as we say in Spain, who will dare to do it? Greetings


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## Larouge

Who will dare to do it ?
There are already measures that are done finally ... But measures have to be global !
Tt seems that everybody is turning to the united States who should set the exemple... but the americans don't like the government to be involved in their economical system so ... Do they ?


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## clipper

Interesting that the Spanish phrase translates to "who dares to do anything".

As an foreigner in Spain I have noticed how difficult it is to be green or ecological compared with many other countries.

Some facts/obseravtions:

Spain is amongst the top producers of waste per person in the EU.

Nobody respects the colour coded bins for plastic/metal packaging, they are ALWAYS full of other waste.

A reliable source told me that the companies who collect recycled waste from the "yellow bins" are paid by the weight of the refuse collected, the problem is that empty containers don't weigh much so employees are "encouraged" to mix other waste from other bins to increase the weight...

Recently I tried to dispose of some engine coolant (containing glycol), my local recycling / tipping facility told me that they don't accept it, so what do I do with it ?

The parks maintenance service in Madrid is now known as the "Environmental Service". Every day I have to walk past a depot of theirs in the morning and all the diesel vehicles are empty, stopped at the depot door with the engines running.....

We used to buy ecological fair trade coffee from a big supermarket chain here, despite the higher price. Recently they stopped selling it.

We also used to buy ecological dish washer tablets from the same supermarket but guess what, they've stopped selling those too.

How are the general public expected to do their bit with these kinds of examples being set ?


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## Larouge

I have my sister living in Spain near Barcelona and it seems to her that waste are quite well managed.

It might be different from the localisation in Spain.

However, 
About the supermarket proposing "BIO" products or products from 'fair trade", do you really think that they don't go arround the rules to have the eco label ?

I personnaly don't trust them anymore super and hypermarkets strangle producers, how could they sell fair trade products. and they sell BIO products comming from the other side of the worl which is finally not ecological... Is it ?

Consequently are you able to change of supermarket ?

Are there any 'BIO" markets appearing in your countries ?

Thanks for your response


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## Miguelillo 87

clipper said:


> How are the general public expected to do their bit with these kinds of examples being set ?


 
 I totally agree with you, Here in Mexico happens the same; It's a law for the managment of trash in Mexico city but it seems authorities are the first ones who not follow it. 

The law says; 

Trash should be separeted into organic and inorganic and you should deliver to the trash recolector in two separeted bags...but when oyu give it to them like this Do you know waht do they do? 

They ripped off the bag and mix everything again!!!!! So why I do separate if they are going to mix it again??? Personally I continue separting but a lot of persons looking to this situation stop doing it. 

About Larouge bio supermarket's question, Here in Mexico I'm not aware of any, at least not in my city (which it's the capital so I doubted there is in another city) but there is bio products being sold in many supermarkets, and yes, they are more expensive than the others but it seems thay have good selling 'cause I haven't noticed they have dissapeared. The most sold are those bioorganics vegetables and fruits.


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## Lupen The Third

clipper said:


> Interesting that the Spanish phrase translates to "who dares to do anything".
> 
> As an foreigner in Spain I have noticed how difficult it is to be green or ecological compared with many other countries.



Well it depends where are you living now in Spain.
And think that, I'm not happy to say this believe me, in Spain things work better than here in Italy.

The fact is that people wants to change things, Italians want to do things like they should be done...but it is the Italian government that does not work well.

This problem refers also the management of the waste...this is my point of view here in the "Bel Paese"

Best regards


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## Miguelillo 87

Hey by the way I've just received a mail about the water problematic, and there it appear that in Austria, the Pitztal glaciar has to be covered with a special blank in summer so it will be keep the glaciar cool 'cause it has lost almost the half of its size in those last years.

Is that true? 

I'm asking that 'cause I knoe there are very active austrians in this forum


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## Sepia

Lupen The Third said:


> I did not know these things. Thank you very much for have informed me,
> ルパン三世


 
If you want to know more, the info to look for are among other things the Vikings settling around the time when Leif Eriksson was around - the guy who probably visited America longbefore the Colombus-Crew. 

By analyzing trees that date far back - and also wood that is old enough - scientists have gained information about the climate back then. The physical evidence found supports the historical assumptions and facts.


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## Lupen The Third

Great! It's always better and useful to learn something new.
See you Sepia!


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