# heather



## Rainbowlight

Hello everyone,

I would like to know how the name of the _*heather*_ plant is said in your language.

Thanks for your help and kindness. : )


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## Mahaodeh

In Arabic it’s called خلنج = khalanj. It is  an old borrowing and Classical dictionaries say that it’s Persian. That is all I know about it.


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## Rainbowlight

Thank you so much for your answer.

Does this word have a known etymology? Or is there another Arabic word that sounds very similar to it?

Would you happen to know if this Arabic word has any relation to words that deal with ideas of "paganism", "heathen"...?

Thank you so much for your kindness and help.


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## apmoy70

In Greek it's *ρείκι* [ˈɾici] (neut.) aphetism and apocopic form of the Byz. Gr. neuter diminutive *ἐρείκιον ereíkion* < Classical fem. noun *ἐρείκη ĕreíkē*


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## Rainbowlight

Thank you very much.


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish

*wrzos*  [vʒɔs] , from Proto-Slavic _*vȇrsъ*._

Most of Polish months don't sound anything remotely like their English , Germanic , Latin counterparts..

*wrzesień* (september) derives from wrzos (heather).


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## Rainbowlight

Is there any relationship between *september* and *heather* in Polish? I've read many heathlands used to be deliberately burnt in order to allow for the regeneration of the soil. Maybe September was the time of the year the task was carried in Poland?


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## Welsh_Sion

You might like to add the word *ling* which is also used for heather, but probably less common. (More poetical perhaps, too?)

In Welsh we call it *grug* (two hard <g's>, a rolled <r> as in Spanish and a <u> which is a long central front vowel /ɨ:/ for us Northern Welsh, but resembles more an /i:/ in Southern Welsh.

I think my home village, *Llanrug* has a delightful etymology. Originally, it was* Llanfihangel yn y Grug *('St Michael's [church] in the heather') but was subsequently contracted. Home to around 2 000 people it is the most Welsh speaking settlement in the known universe with over 80% speaking it as a first language. When I go home, I have no need to speak any other language but my mother tongue - unless I meet someone from outside.


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## Włoskipolak 72

Rainbowlight said:


> Is there any relationship between *september* and *heather* in Polish? I've read many heathlands used to be deliberately burnt in order to allow for the regeneration of the soil. Maybe September was the time of the year the task was carried in Poland?


The name of the month *wrzesień* (according to Brückner) comes from the heather that blooms in this month (in Poland).

Heathlands in Polish *wrzosowiska.*


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## Yendred

In French, _bruyère_ [bʁy.jεʀ] or [bʁɥi.jɛʁ]. It's one of the few French words of Gaulish origin. 
Welsh _grug_ is also a cognate (Welsh and Gaulish both being Celtic languages).


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## amikama

Hebrew:
*אברש *(avrash)


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## Rainbowlight

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> The name of the month *wrzesień* (according to Brückner) comes from the heather that blooms in this month (in Poland).
> 
> Heathlands in Polish *wrzosowisko.*


Lovely! Thank you very much for your beautiful answer.



Yendred said:


> In French, _bruyère_ [bʁy.jεʀ] or [bʁɥi.jɛʁ]. It's one of the few French words of Gaulish origin.


Thank you very much.



amikama said:


> Hebrew:
> *אברש *(avrash)


Thank you very much. Would you happen to know if this word carries another connotations Hebrew? I'm actually thinking of the similarity of heather/moor and heathen/pagan in the English language.


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## Welsh_Sion

Yendred said:


> In French, _bruyère_ [bʁy.jεʀ] or [bʁɥi.jɛʁ]. It's one of the few French words of Gaulish origin.
> Welsh _grug_ is also a cognate (Welsh and Gaulish both being Celtic languages).



Indeed, they are/were both P Celtic languages (probably). See also GPC for the etymology of _grug. _(I also read the Wiki entry for bruyère and the comments of my old colleague, P-Y Lambert.)

Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru


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## Rainbowlight

Mahaodeh said:


> In Arabic it’s called خلنج = khalanj. It is  an old borrowing and Classical dictionaries say that it’s Persian. That is all I know about it.


When I run the word through Microsoft Bing Translator, it says it means "vinegar" in several languages. Is that correct? Maybe there are varieties of heather that are used to make some kind of vinegar?



Welsh_Sion said:


> You might like to add the word *ling* which is also used for heather, but probably less common. (More poetical perhaps, too?)
> 
> In Welsh we call it *grug* (two hard <g's>, a rolled <r> as in Spanish and a <u> which is a long central front vowel /ɨ:/ for us Northern Welsh, but resembles more an /i:/ in Southern Welsh.
> 
> I think my home village, *Llanrug* has a delightful etymology. Originally, it was* Llanfihangel yn y Grug *('St Michael's [church] in the heather') but was subsequently contracted. Home to around 2 000 people it is the most Welsh speaking settlement in the known universe with over 80% speaking it as a first language. When I go home, I have no need to speak any other language but my mother tongue - unless I meet someone from outside.


I would like to know if there's a parallelism between Welsh _grug_ and English _heather_, meaning if there is an association of the Welsh word with "paganism" or "heathenry".


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## Welsh_Sion

You need to look up our definitive historical and etymological dictionary, GPC (as cited above)

_Paganism_ is '*paganiaeth*' (less common* 'paganeidd-dra', 'paganeiddiwch', 'paganrwydd'*). All these derive from Latin, paganus being 'of the country' (As in '*pays*' in French and '*pais*' in Spanish. This *pa-* root seems to be productive for something regarding 'the country' - see _patriotism_ for example. It also gives the Welsh county, Powys, which is one the most rural of our counties).

_Heathenism_ is '*anghred*' ('without-belief') or '*anghredinaeth*' ('the state of [being] without belief'). The latter by extension becomes _disbelief = incredulity._


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## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> This *pa-* root seems to be fruitful for something regarding 'the country' - see _patriotism_


Wait, _patriotism_ comes from Latin _pater_, the country of the father.


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## Penyafort

Welsh_Sion said:


> Indeed, they are/were both P Celtic languages (probably). See also GPC for the etymology of _grug. _(I also read the Wiki entry for bruyère and the comments of my old colleague, P-Y Lambert.)



The Catalan and Aragonese forms are also related to the Welsh _grug_.

Catalan: *bruc *--And the plant is the *bruguera* (which is also a common surname)
Aragonese: *bruco, brueco*

< from Vulgar Latin *_brūcāria_ and Late Latin *_brūcus _("heather"), from Gaulish *_brūcos_, from Proto-Celtic *_wroikos_.​


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## Rainbowlight

Welsh_Sion said:


> You need to look up our definitive historical and etymological dictionary, GPC (as cited above)
> 
> _Paganism_ is '*paganiaeth*' (less common* 'paganeidd-dra', 'paganeiddiwch', 'paganrwydd'*). All these derive from Latin, paganus being 'of the country' (As in '*pays*' in French and '*pais*' in Spanish. This *pa-* root seems to be fruitful for something regarding 'the country' - see _patriotism_ for example. It also gives the Welsh county, Powys, which is one the most rural of our counties).
> 
> _Heathenism_ is '*anghred*' ('without-belief') or '*anghredinaeth*' ('the state of [being] without belief'). The latter by extension becomes _disbelief = incredulity._


Thanks for the thorough and very interesting explanation. : )


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## Rainbowlight

Penyafort said:


> The Catalan and Aragonese forms are also related to the Welsh _grug_.
> 
> Catalan: *bruc *--And the plant is the *bruguera* (which is also a common surname)
> Aragonese: *bruco, brueco*
> 
> < from Vulgar Latin *_brūcāria_ and Late Latin *_brūcus _("heather"), from Gaulish *_brūcos_, from Proto-Celtic *_wroikos_.​


Thank you very much.


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## Welsh_Sion

Yendred said:


> Wait, _patriotism_ comes from Latin _pater_, the country of the father.


Apologies for that slip, @Yendred. Easily done - especially when you're thinking of _Land of my Fathers_!


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## amikama

Rainbowlight said:


> Would you happen to know if this word carries another connotations Hebrew?


I don't think there are other connotations. אברש isn't a common word in Hebrew.


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## Olaszinhok

Rainbowlight said:


> I would like to know how the name of the _*heather*_ plant is said in your language.


Hello Rainbowlight, could you please tell us how_ heather _is called in Spanish? Thank you in advance.


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## Yendred

According to my dictionary, in Spanish it's _(el)_ _brezo_.


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## Penyafort

Yes, in Spanish the common word is *brezo*, also from the same Celtic form, but most likely via *_vroicos > *broccius (metathesis of i due to the weirdness of "oi" for a Roman) > *bròcciu > *brueço > breço (Old Spanish, pronounced 'bretso') > brezo._

But apparently in some places Spanish still preserves the word *urce*, from Latin _ulice(m)_ [< ac. of _ulex_], which must have been kept in Northwest Iberoromance:

Spanish: el urce​Asturian: la uz​Galician:a uz, a urce​Portuguese: a urze​


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## Awwal12

Rainbowlight said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I would like to know how the name of the _*heather*_ plant is said in your language.
> 
> Thanks for your help and kindness. : )


Russian: вереск (véresk) ['vʲerʲəsk]


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## Marsianitoh

In Basque: txilar.


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## Rainbowlight

Olaszinhok said:


> Hello Rainbowlight, could you please tell us how_ heather _is called in Spanish? Thank you in advance.


It's called *brezo. *A heathland or moorland is a* brezal.*



Marsianitoh said:


> In Basque: txilar.


Thank you. Do you know if the word has any known etymology?


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## Penyafort

Rainbowlight said:


> Do you know if the word has any known etymology?



Etymology with Basque is always a thorny issue. But following Trask, and if I interpret him correctly, _txilar _or _txillar _would come from a diminutive form of *illar *(variants including _ilharre_, _hilarre_, _ilhar, elhar, gillar, ilharrazki, iñarra, giñarra, gindarra, kiñar_) and this might be composed -see some of the variants- from *ilar *'pea; (leguminous) plant' *+ *_*larre* _'pasture; wild', these two being given as part of the native core of the language, which given its unrelatable condition, gets lost in time.


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## apmoy70

Rainbowlight said:


> It's called *brezo. *A heathland or moorland is a* brezal.*
> ...


In Greek _heathland_ is *«ερεικώνας»* [e̞ɾiˈko̞nas̠] (masc.) < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun *«ἐρεικών» ĕreikṓn* (nom. sinɡ.), *«ἐρεικῶνος» ĕreikônŏs* (ɡen. sinɡ.) --> _thicket of heather_: «ἐρείκη» (see my first post) + masculine productive suffix *«-ών» -ṓn* applied to noun stems in order to form words for places


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## AutumnOwl

Welsh_Sion said:


> You might like to add the word *ling* which is also used for heather, but probably less common. (More poetical perhaps, too?)


Is *ling* used in areas where people from the Scandinavian countries had been settlers/occupants (the Danelaw, parts of Scotland)?

The old spelling of the name of heather in Swedish was _liung_, today _ljung_, and the name in Norwegian and Danish is _lyng_. In Finnish it's _kanerva_. 

Heather often grows on a _ljunghed_ (heather heath), compare _hed_ with German _heide_. 

The Swedish word for pagan is _hedning_, possibly from a Gotic word, borrowed from Armenian _hethanos_, heathen.


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## Welsh_Sion

My Oxford Dictionary gives the following for *ling, *@AutumnOwl:

'Middle English: from Old Norse _lyng_, of unknown origin.'

Others here may help you further.


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## symposium

In Italian it's Erica, which is also not that uncommon a female name (just like Heather in English). Brughiera (cognate with bruyère etc.) is moorland in Italian and it has no obvious connection to the plant.


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## Terio

_Erica_ is also the botanical name of the gender heather belongs to :

_Erica carnea :_ Fr. : bruyère des neiges, bruyère carnée, etc.


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## Panceltic

*(v)resa* or *(v)resje* in Slovenian, of course cognate with the aforementioned Polish _wrzos_ (Proto-Slavic _*vȇrsъ_) and even Welsh _grug_ (Proto-Celtic _*wroikos_).


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## Rainbowlight

symposium said:


> In Italian it's Erica, which is also not that uncommon a female name (just like Heather in English). Brughiera (cognate with bruyère etc.) is moorland in Italian and it has no obvious connection to the plant.


Thanks for your help. This is by no means a racist questions, but would you happen to know some synonyms of the English Moor, both as in a type of land and in the somewhat derogatory term used to refer to the people who live in North Africa?


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## apmoy70

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek _heathland_ is *«ερεικώνας»* [e̞ɾiˈko̞nas̠] (masc.) < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun *«ἐρεικών» ĕreikṓn* (nom. sinɡ.), *«ἐρεικῶνος» ĕreikônŏs* (ɡen. sinɡ.) --> _thicket of heather_: «ἐρείκη» (see my first post) + masculine productive suffix *«-ών» -ṓn* applied to noun stems in order to form words for places


Apologies for quoting myself, I forgot to add the name for _moorland_, it's *«χερσότοπος»* [çe̞rˈs̠o̞t̠o̞po̞s̠] (masc.), a MoGr construction (1809), a compound: Oblique *«χερσο-»* [çe̞rs̠o̞-] as first member in compounds < MoGr adj. *«χέρσος»* [ˈçe̞rs̠o̞s̠] --> _uncultivated, unplanted field_ < Classical adj. *«χέρσος, -ος, ον» kʰérsŏs* (masc. and fem.), *«χέρσον» kʰérsŏn* (neut.) --> _dry land, mainland_ (PIE *ɡ́ʰers-o- _standinɡ, erect_ cf. Skt. हर्षते (harṣate), _to be excited_, Lat. horrēre, _to stand erect, tremble, shiver_ > horribilis, horror) + MoGr masc. noun *«τόπος»* [ˈt̠o̞po̞s̠] --> _place, location_ < Classical masc. noun *«τόπος» tópŏs*. 


Rainbowlight said:


> Thanks for your help. This is by no means a racist questions, but would you happen to know some synonyms of the English Moor, both as in a type of land and in the somewhat derogatory term used to refer to the people who live in North Africa?


The derogatory MoGr name for the people from N. Africa is *«αράπης»* [aˈɾapis̠] (masc.), *«αράπισσα»* [aˈɾapis̠a] (fem.), *«αράπηδες»* [aˈɾapiðe̞s̠] (nom. pl.) < Ottoman Turkish عرب‎ [aˈɾap] < Arabic عَرَب‎ [ʕarab] --> _Arab_. It's also the non-pc word for the coloured person (it's not as strong as the English n-word though, as it's not based on racial slur, but on the fact that in the collective uncontiousness of the Greek society of late 19th-early 20th c. coloured men were identified with the North African/Arab slaves, whom the Ottomans employed to carry through the devşirme system of abducting Christian boys to convert them to Janissaries).
For Moors we have the name *«Μαυριτανοί»* [mavrit̠aˈni] (masc. nom. pl.), *«Μαυριτανός»* [mavrit̠aˈno̞s̠] (masc. nom. sinɡ.) < Koine adj. *«μαῦρος» maûros* --> _black, dark_, a boomerang word:
Classical adj. *«ἀμαυρός» ămaurós* --> _hardly seen, dim, faint_ (of unknown etymology; per Beekes a substrate word, per Puhvel a Scythian loan maurva-) > Lat. *maurus* > Koine & Byz.Gr/MoGr *«μαῦρος»*.
«Μαυριτανός» is just an ethnonym to us, it carries neither positive nor negative connotation.


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## Welsh_Sion

Rainbowlight said:


> Thanks for your help. This is by no means a racist questions, but would you happen to know some synonyms of the English Moor, both as in a type of land and in the somewhat derogatory term used to refer to the people who live in North Africa?



You know that the names 'Morris', 'Maurice', (Welsh: 'Morys', 'Morus') derive from this idea of the colour of the skin of Othello, the well-known personage of Venice, I presume. 

PS This may require a separate thread ...


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## Rainbowlight

Welsh_Sion said:


> You know that the names 'Morris', 'Maurice', (Welsh: 'Morys', 'Morus') derive from this idea of the colour of the skin of Othello, the well-known personage of Venice, I presume.
> 
> PS This may require a separate thread ...


That's so interesting from a philological point of view. Do the colours _brown_ or _tan_ are similar in Welsh to those names?

In Spain, some people call people from North Africa "_moros_" (a word that is quite similar to English "_Moors_"), although I personally consider the word a bit derogatory. Besides, it has become a rather broad stament that does not take into account all the differences and the nuances between the countries in North Africa.

Of course, I couldn't help but noticing the similarities between the English words _heather_, _heathen_, _moorland_ and _Moor_. I can't wait to start a small-scaled research to see if this pattern is repeated in other European languages. I'm feeling curious now —does this pattern happens in Welsh too?

Mauritania (the name was already in use 2 000 years ago!) was an independent kingdom, then an actual province annexed to the Roman Empire, and finally a free, independent country. It has always had a solid and very distinct cultural identity.

In Spain, the word "*marroquí*" has a completely neutral meaning and it is commonly used to refer to people from Moroco. 

Others also use "*magrebí*", after the arabic word *al-Mağrib*, which is related to the _setting sun_, as the land symbolizes the West, at least from the position of the region with regard to the Arabian Peninsula.

Thanks for your answer.


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## symposium

In modern Italian a "moro /mora" is a person with dark hair (cognate with Spanish "moreno/morena") : "un bel moro = a good-looking dark-haired man". In contemporary Venitian, my language, (and possibly in older Italian, too) you're also a "moro" when you're tanned: "Che mora che te sì diventà = What a nice tan you have!". So I guess that "moro" originally was just someone with dark hair and a dark complexion, like many people from Northern Africa are. In Venitian, black people are "mori", too, but I suppose for lack of a better term. In Romance languages there's no connection at all between "mori" and "moorland" (bruyère, brughiera etc.).
Of course, "The Moor of Venice" is "Il Moro di Venezia".


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## Trisia

A perfect moment to interrupt this discussion with the unrelated fact that in Romanian "heather" is called "*iarba neagră*" ("black grass")


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## Rainbowlight

symposium said:


> In modern Italian a "moro /mora" is a person with dark hair (cognate with Spanish "moreno/morena") : "un bel moro = a good-looking dark-haired man". In contemporary Venitian, my language, (and possibly in older Italian, too) you're also a "moro" when you're tanned: "Che mora che te sì diventà = What a nice tan you have!". So I guess that "moro" originally was just someone with dark hair and a dark complexion, like many people from Northern Africa are. In Venitian, black people are "mori", too, but I suppose for lack of a better term. In Romance languages there's no connection at all between "mori" and "moorland" (bruyère, brughiera etc.).
> Of course, "The Moor of Venice" is "Il Moro di Venezia".


Grazie mille.


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## Demiurg

AutumnOwl said:


> Heather often grows on a _ljunghed_ (heather heath), compare _hed_ with German _heide_.
> 
> The Swedish word for pagan is _hedning_, possibly from a Gotic word, borrowed from Armenian _hethanos_, heathen.



"Heide" (fem.) in German usually means _heath_ (_heathland_). The plant is called "Heidekraut" (lit. _heath herb_) or "Erika".
"Heide" (masc.) also means _heathen_ (_pagan_).


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## Rainbowlight

Demiurg said:


> "Heide" (fem.) in German usually means _heath_ (_heathland_). The plant is called "Heidekraut" (lit. _heath herb_) or "Erika".
> "Heide" (masc.) also means _heathen_ (_pagan_).


Thank you very much.


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## Rainbowlight

Trisia said:


> A perfect moment to interrupt this discussion with the unrelated fact that in Romanian "heather" is called "*iarba neagră*" ("black grass")


What a perfect interruption! I love the way _iarba neagră_ sounds. : )


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## Rainbowlight

Demiurg said:


> "Heide" (fem.) in German usually means _heath_ (_heathland_). The plant is called "Heidekraut" (lit. _heath herb_) or "Erika".
> "Heide" (masc.) also means _heathen_ (_pagan_).


Thanks for your answer.


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