# Ipsos mori



## wholey

A new company has been formed through the mergerof two large market research companies in the UK.  Ipsos and MORI.  These are both abbreviations, but I wondered if the phrase "Ipsos mori" actually means anything in Latin - or indeed any other language.


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## Whodunit

In my experience, "ipsos" means "them-/your-/ourselves" in the accusative case (plural, of course). However, I have no idea what "mori" should mean, except for "mulberry" in teh genitive case (singular). 

Here's the masculine declension of the word "ipse" (-self):
ipse
ipsius
ipsi
ipsum
ipso

ipsi
ipsorum
ipsis
*ipsos*
ipsis

Here's the declension of "morum" (mulberry):

morum
*mori*
moro
morum
moro

mora
mororum
moris
mora
moris

PS: If anyone needs the macrons, please tell me and I will edit my post.


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## Fernando

I recall just a few words from my Latin, but mori take to my mind "mora" (uses, laws) and also remembers "morire" = to die.


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## tab226

In broken latin it could mean "dead themselves," which, depending on what the companies do, could be quite a propos!


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## Fidelia

Yes, dead themselves popped into my mind too. I am not sure that the accusative case would be used though for ipse. 
But the adjective "dead" is mortuus,a,um. I think masculine plural would be mortui (but not positive). 
But "morire" is the italian word for "to die."   Mori, though is the present infinitive of the (deponent) verb morior (to die) So "Ipsos mori" could mean "Themselves to die" or, "To die themselves" but i am still not sure about ipse being in the accusative.


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## DareRyan

Mori is the present passive infinitive of Morior (I die [Morire]) 
So I suppose 
"To be expired (Dead) themselves"

Albeit, it is a fairly awkward phrase. The pronoun ipsos should in my opinion be declined into the Nominative case.


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## Fidelia

morior, mori, mortuus sum is a deponent verb. They have passive forms, but active meanings (and so are translated to English in the active voice). Hence they are intransitive, because they cannot be put into the passive voice (have a passive meaning).  Mori is the (only) present infinitive, not the passive infinitive, because there can't be one for a deponent verb, because they are characteristically intransitive.


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## se16teddy

Fidelia said:
			
		

> Hence they are intransitive, because they cannot be put into the passive voice (have a passive meaning).


But some deponent verbs are transitive. 
http://www.mythfolklore.net/medieval_latin/grammar/deponent.htm


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## dinosky123

wholey said:


> A new company has been formed through the mergerof two large market research companies in the UK. Ipsos and MORI. These are both abbreviations, but I wondered if the phrase "Ipsos mori" actually means anything in Latin - or indeed any other language.


 ...ipsos(your/self)+mori(customs/habits)=your habits !!


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## Lamb67

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos_MORI

Hi MORI is an acronynm see above please!


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## CapnPrep

I am pretty sure the original poster doesn't care anymore, or never really cared in the first place, but since this thread has been revived…



DareRyan said:


> The pronoun ipsos should in my opinion be declined into the Nominative case.


The subject of an infinitive is in the accusative. So _ipsos mori_ could mean "for themselves to die" or "for you yourselves to die" etc. (if you really want to interpret it as a Latin phrase).



dinosky123 said:


> ipsos(own/self/your..)+mori(habits/customs)=your habits


I'm afraid this is completely incorrect. Have a look at the declension of _mos_ here.


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## XiaoRoel

Lamb67 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos_MORI
> 
> Hi MORI is an acronynm see above please!


Es lo que parece ser: *Ipsos MORI* es una empresa del grupo inglés *Ipsos*. Será una casualidad (o quizás un juego lingüístico de los fundadores de la empresa, ¿quién lo sabe?) el que coincida con una oración sustantiva de infinitivo, *ipsos mori*, que significa _*(que) ellos mismos se mueren/morían*_.
Gracias a Lamb por el enlace clarificador.


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## padraic1359

Ipsos mori can be translated as "They die" in Latin.
At least  according to a well known online translator!
However there are people involved in this discussion who have a much better grasp of Latin than I do (which wouldn't be difficult)!
Apparently *ipsos Mori *is a name formed by the merger of two companies *Ipsos UK *and *Mori
*The company recently called me asking if I would take part in market research.
I asked the gentleman about the significance of the name.
He told me that he has been asked the same question hundreds of times and the *various Latin meanings are just a coincidence*.


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## padraic1359

I would like to add sometrhing to my last post.
If you put Ipsos Mori into the the Google translator it comes out as "they die" in Latin.
However it is my understanding that this is just a coincidence and the name is actually an acronym and "is nothing to do with dying", my mistake and my apologies to Ipsos Mori, which I believe is a renowned marketing company.


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## Cagey

The words do mean something in Latin. 
That does not mean that the company had that meaning in mind when they chose the name. 

However, I am sure that many people have wondered about the Latin meaning when they saw the name.


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## wandle

*ipsos mori*, considered as a Latin accusative and infinitive (that is, an indirect statement) means:
'_that [they] themselves are dying_' or:
'_that [you] yourselves are dying_' or:
'_that [we] ourselves are dying_'.

How could this occur in a Latin sentence? Imagine a group of legionaries who advance in a suicidal rearguard action against a vastly superior enemy force, in order to buy time for the rest of their side to escape. 

To describe their state of mind as they are engulfed by the foe and the blows rain down, you could say:
*sperant suos evasuros; se ipsos mori sciunt*.
'_They hope their men will get away: they know that they themselves are dying_.'


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## Condessa

I agree with CapnPrep and Wandle: the accusative is not odd at all.

For the verb is an infinitive, this is not a principal sentence, ergo it has no complete sense (so cannot mean "They die"). Anyway, we could suppose a verb (like "fit") is missing, and build a sentence with complete sense: "It happens (fit) that they themselves die." 

Nevertheless, Latin infinitive works eventually as an imperative. In this case, this could be read as a principal sentence: "¡Que ellos mismos mueran!" (Sorry, I don't know how to say that in English: "May themselves die!", maybe?)

[Yes, it's an acronym and it's not intended to mean anything. But it is sooo funny to make it mean something. Finally, we all study Latin just for fun.]


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## In Vino Veritas

wholey said:


> A new company has been formed through the mergerof two large market research companies in the UK.  Ipsos and MORI.  These are both abbreviations, but I wondered if the phrase "Ipsos mori" actually means anything in Latin - or indeed any other language.



Yes,it could mean "They die".There are  similar grammatical constructions.

_Vidi ego iactatas, mota face ,crescere *flammas* , Et rursus nullo concutiente, *mori*_ .

Ovid Amores I-II.


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