# andata e ritorno - sola andata - solo ritorno



## l'orso-polare

Hi,

I have been translating a number of dialogs from Italian to English. But, I have been having problems translating the use of "andata" when being considered as part of "andata e ritorno". 

Here's an example:
A: Vorrei prenotare un viaggio da Roma a Verona andata e ritorno.
B: Sì. Va bene, guardiamo prima sola l'andata.
A: Sì. Vorrei partire il  venti  settembre.

Someone suggested using "outbound" but that doesn't feel right. "One-way"  doesn't seem appropriate  either. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

l'orso polare


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## Hockey13

L'andata: the going, the leaving

Il ritorno: the return

It's a two-way trip first from Rome to Verona (L'andata) and then from Verona to Rome (Il ritorno). For your version, I'd change the structure because we have such a good phrase for it in English:

A: I'd like to book a round trip from Rome to Verona.

B: Alright, let's first do the first leg (let's do the first part/leg first).

A: OK. I'd like to leave on the 20th of September.


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## underhouse

Single ticket (solo andata) and return ticket (andata e ritorno).

I would like to book a return ticket from Rome to Verona.
Yes. Ok, let's see the single ticket first.


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## l'orso-polare

Hockey13 said:


> L'andata: the going, the leaving
> 
> Il ritorno: the return
> 
> It's a two-way trip first from Rome to Verona (L'andata) and then from Verona to Rome (Il ritorno). For your version, I'd change the structure because we have such a good phrase for it in English:
> 
> A: I'd like to book a round trip from Rome to Verona.
> 
> B: Alright, let's first do the first leg (let's do the first part/leg first).
> 
> A: OK. I'd like to leave on the 20th of September.



Yes, I had wondered about using "leg". Thanks very much.


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## l'orso-polare

underhouse said:


> Single ticket (solo andata) and return ticket (andata e ritorno).
> 
> I would like to book a return ticket from Rome to Verona.
> Yes. Ok, let's see the single ticket first.



Would one really say "single ticket"? Is this British English? I ask as the person who suggested "outbound" is a British English speaker. In any case, thanks very much.


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## cas29

I wouldn't say "let's look at the single ticket"--- because it isn't a single ticket - it is the first part of the journey.

Therefore I agree with "the first leg" - outbound is technically correct, but sounds unnatural to me. I can see travel agents using that as jargon but not "regular folk".


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## LitaSt

Hi everybody, I have a question:
Biglietto di andata= single ticket
Biglietto di andata e ritorno= return ticket
Biglietto di ritorno= ??

Is it always return ticket?
Thank you!


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## sound shift

B could say "Let's do the journey from here to there first."


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## Fooler

LitaSt said:


> Hi everybody, I have a question:
> Biglietto di andata= single ticket
> Biglietto di andata e ritorno= return ticket
> Biglietto di ritorno= ??
> 
> Is it always return ticket?
> Thank you!



Ciao Lita,

Have a look here il biglietto di ritorno

I found the _return passage_ too if correct


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## King Crimson

I'm under the impression that what B wants to say is "occupiamoci / pensiamo prima all'andata", so "let's first deal with the first / outbound part / leg".


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## sound shift

I'm under the same impression, KC. It's just that I don't think a BrE-speaking railway employee would say "outbound" or "leg" (and I speak as someone who has travelled a lot by train). I can imagine that person saying what I suggested in post 8, though.


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## King Crimson

sound shift said:


> I'm under the same impression, KC. It's just that I don't think a BrE-speaking railway employee would say "outbound" or "leg" (and I speak as someone who has travelled a lot by train). I can imagine that person saying what I suggested in post 8, though.



And I have no reason to doubt the opinion of a native speaker --and frequent traveller at that


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## Tegs

LitaSt said:


> Hi everybody, I have a question:
> Biglietto di andata= single ticket
> Biglietto di andata e ritorno= return ticket
> Biglietto di ritorno= ??
> 
> Is it always return ticket?



It is only a return ticket if you are buying 2 tickets, at the same time, to and from the same place, for example Turin to Rome and back again. If you want to buy a ticket from Rome to Turin, you would call that a "single ticket", even if you are "returning" to Turin.


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## valthepal

Where I come from:
solo andata = one-way to (inserire la destinazione)  oppure = one-way outbound
solo ritorno = one-way return  oppure = return ticket only
andata e ritorno = round trip


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## Tegs

There is no such thing as a "one way return" in English - a return means one ticket out and a second ticket back.


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## Necsus

Mi sembra più che logico quanto dice Tegs: il 'ritorno' è legato all'andata, quindi ha senso solo se si comprano i due biglietti insieme, altrimenti è semplicemente un altro biglietto.


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## Pietruzzo

Tuttavia anche se acquistati insieme andata e ritorno sono generalmente due biglietti distinti, quindi il biglietto di ritorno "is a thing" almeno in italiano. Se io dicessi "adesso che arriviamo stai attento a non buttare il biglietto di ritorno invece di quello di andata" sarebbe intraducibile?
Similar thread


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## Tegs

Oh yes, you can certainly say "I must make sure not to bin my return ticket" but what you can't say is "Can I buy a return ticket to London?" and assume you will be given a one-way ticket to London. You will certainly be given two tickets. Using the term "return ticket" to refer to only one ticket only works in some contexts. Of course, we don't have a context here, so that's a problem.


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## london calling

Tegs said:


> Oh yes, you can certainly say "I must make sure not to bin my return ticket" but what you can't say is "Can I buy a return ticket to London?" and assume you will be given a one-way ticket to London. You will certainly be given two tickets. Using the term "return ticket" to refer to only one ticket only works in some contexts. Of course, we don't have a context here, so that's a problem.


Agreed, 100%  The last time I had to buy a train ticket in the UK (my parents and son live in London so I don't buy tickets: I use my Oyster card) I bought a 'return to Northampton': I was given two separate tickets together with something which looked like a ticket but was actually a sort of booking confirmation slip.


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## valthepal

One way only or round trip?
This is "commuter English" where I'm from.
Tegs, you're right: no such thing as one-way return (messed-up with cut and paste, sorry)


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## london calling

_Round trip_ is fine for 'andata e ritorno', but I wouldn't ask for 'a round trip ticket', ever.


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## pebblespebbles

In Ireland, is :
biglietto sola andata : one way ticket,
biglietto andata e ritorno: return ticket
Se dovessi parlare del biglietto di ritorno soltanto, io direi "the return ticket".
Per parlare soltanto del biglietto di andata direi : the outgoing ticket
Questo per treni, aerei, autobus...
Ma questa frase sembra prendere luogo in un' agenzia di viaggi e che si parli di un pacchetto vacanze? O mi sbaglio?


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## london calling

pebblespebbles said:


> In Ireland *(and GB)*, *it* is :
> biglietto sola andata : one way ticket,
> biglietto andata e ritorno: return ticket
> Se dovessi parlare del biglietto di ritorno soltanto, io direi "the return ticket". *Sì, se è chiaro nel contesto che significa veramente solo il biglitto di ritorno.*
> Per parlare soltanto del biglietto di andata direi : the outgoing ticket. *Sì, ma diciamo anche 'a single ticket', direi anzi che è più comune, in BE perlomeno.*
> Questo per treni, aerei, bus...*Intendi autobus di linea, no?*
> Ma questa frase sembra prendere luogo in un' agenzia di viaggi e che si parli di un pacchetto vacanze? O mi sbaglio? *Non lo sappiamo, è  questo il problema*.


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## Fooler

pebblespebbles said:


> In Ireland, is :
> biglietto sola andata : one way ticket,
> biglietto andata e ritorno: return ticket
> Se dovessi parlare del biglietto di ritorno soltanto, io direi "the return ticket".



Or the _return *journey *ticket_


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## johngiovanni

Fooler said:


> Or the _return *journey *ticket_


That is certainly a possibility.  Buying tickets can be very complicated nowadays.  The canny traveller can sometimes get a bargain by buying the right combination of tickets as the tariffs for individual journeys can vary so much.  In the UK, buying "split tickets" - where the journey from A to B is divided into segments, with separate tickets for each segment - can sometimes save you money.  There's not much logic about it.
Another possibility is to talk in terms of "the outward/ outbound" and "the inward" journey, or "the outward / outbound" journey" and "the return" journey.  You then may find it helpful to refer to "tickets" (plural) if you are thinking of buying "split tickets".


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## Fooler

johngiovanni said:


> That is certainly a possibility.  Buying tickets can be very complicated nowadays.  The canny traveller can sometimes get a bargain by buying the right combination of tickets as the tariffs for individual journeys can vary so much.  In the UK, buying "split tickets" - where the journey from A to B is divided into segments, with separate tickets for each segment - can sometimes save you money.  There's not much logic about it.
> Another possibility is to talk in terms of "the outward/ outbound" and "the inward" journey, or "the outward / outbound" journey" and "the return" journey.  You then may find it helpful; to refer to "tickets" (plural) if you are thinking of buying "split tickets".



I agree john, but I think that here we are just talking about the word _ritorno _and _return_ (ticket) in English means 1 or 2 separate tickets marking eg Padua/London - London/Padua and as a verb_ to go back_ (in this case from London) _. _So, let's say I buy one return ticket to London, the travel agency prints 2 tickets and once in London I tell you that I lost _il biglietto di ritorno, _what should I say ?_ the return ticket ? _(but as per its  meaning this implies from Padua to London and return) _the return journey ticket ? the return back ticket ? _


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## london calling

Fooler, as we said above, _return ticket_ can mean biglietto di ritorno if the meaning is clear in a given context, which I think it probably would be in your case. That said, _return journey ticket _is a possibility, although it wouldn't exactly roll off my tongue... 

There's no such thing as a _return back ticket,_ by the way.


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## Fooler

london calling said:


> Fooler, as we said above, _return ticket_ can mean biglietto di ritorno if the meaning is clear in a given context, which I think it probably would be in your case. There's no such thing as a _return back ticket,_ by the way.



Thanks London, I know, but I made it up just to clear the Italian word _ritorno_ without running into the _original_ English meaning (andata *e* ritorno)


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## pebblespebbles

E' la parola "viaggio" che mi sembra rimandare ad un contesto di pacchetto vacanze. Ma probabilmente no, la destinazione non e' cosi' esotica da suggerire il bisogno di coinvolgere un'agenzia. Ma, quando si acquista un biglietto del treno, dell'autobus etc.., generalmente si chiede :" Vorrei un biglietto per...".
"Vorrei acquistare un viaggio per.." sembra invece un'espressione desueta. Un viaggio , di solito, implica bagagli, un posto dove dormire...
Tutto questo solo per rendere chiaro che, se il contesto e'  quello di un pacchetto vacanze, le traduzioni suggerite non penso siano corrette.

Per fooler: per acquistare un biglietto andata e ritorno:" I would like to buy A RETURN ticket to London".
Se perdo il biglietto di ritorno dopo aver gia' usato l' andata: " I lost THE RETURN ticket ". In un contesto dato, l' articolo penso faccia la differenza.....non riesco a spiegarla altrimenti. 
(E non riesco a fare le citazioni)


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## london calling

pebblespebbles said:


> E' la parola "viaggio" che mi sembra rimandare ad un contesto di pacchetto vacanze. Ma probabilmente no, la destinazione non e' cosi' esotica da suggerire il bisogno di coinvolgere un'agenzia.


A. How was your trip to Cardiff? I know you don't like taking the train.
B. Fine. The train left Paddington late but the return journey/trip back was fine.


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