# Ούτε το ξέρουν vs Ούτε αυτό ξέρουν



## parakseno

Moderator's note: These posts were moved from Socrates' quote 

Antho, what is the difference (in meaning) between
"Αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε αυτό ξέρουν" - "but the others don't know even  that"
and
 "αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε το ξέρουν" - "and the others don't even know it"
Is there something I'm missing here? To me they have the same meaning... 
Thanks. 
 
Parakseno.


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## Tetina

Parakseno, the "αυτό" emphasize the meaning and makes more clear that it refers to the first sentence.
Maybe in grammar it's the same but to our ears not.


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## anthodocheio

Tetina said:


> Parakseno, the "αυτό" emphasize the meaning and makes more clear that it refers to the first sentence.
> Maybe in grammar it's the same but to our ears not.


 
Αυτό, το ότι δεν ξέρω τίποτα, είναι το μόνο πράγμα που ξέρω, και μόνο εγώ το ξέρω.


Αν και, προσωπικά δεν συμφωνώ με το δεύτερο μέρος... Στα ελληνικά ποτέ δεν το λέμε..


Χριστίνα


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## parakseno

Tetina said:


> "αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε αυτό ξέρουν" - "but the others don't know even  that"
> "αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε το ξέρουν" - "but the others don't even know it"
> 
> 
> 
> Parakseno, the "αυτό" emphasize the meaning and makes more clear that it refers to the first sentence.
> Maybe in grammar it's the same but to our ears not.
Click to expand...


Well, I guess I'm just to stubborn and won't let go until I understand what's this all about. 
I think I found a "grammatical" explanation as well. "το" (in my phrase) is the weak/short form of the personal pronoun "αυτό" ("it"), while "αυτό" in the second sentence is rather the demonstrative pronoun (meaning "this"). So grammatically the difference would be that I used the personal pronoun ("they don't know *it*") while you used the demonstrative ("they don't know *this*").

Now in meaning, is it rather a difference of emphasis? Does the sentence with "το" emphasize the action (not know) while the one with "αυτό" the object (what they don't know)?

Maybe it would've been wiser to open a new thread as this is getting a bit off topic...

Parakseno.

EDIT: PS: Ναι, μάλλον φοβερά off-topic.


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## anthodocheio

parakseno said:


> Does the sentence with "το" emphasize the action (not know) while the one with "αυτό" the object (what they don't know)?


 
Πάνω - κάτω...

Ας φτιάξουμε το παράδειγμα..

Εγώ ξέρω μόνο να διαβάζω.. (ας πούμε ότι δεν ξέρω να γράφω κ.λ.π.)


αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε αυτό ξέρουν. (Δεν ξέρουν ούτε να διαβάζουν, ούτε να γράφουν..)

αλλά οι άλλοι ούτε το ξέρουν. (Ούτε ξέρουν ότι εγώ ξέρω να διαβάζω.. Δεν έχουν ιδέα..)
Φαίνεται η διαφορά;


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## ireney

Anthodocheio was faster than I was  Yes, parakseno I think you are right. It's the personal pronoun vs the demonstrative pronoun (προσωπική αντωνυμία και δεικτική αντωνυμία) in this case I think.


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## parakseno

Whatever it is, our dear Antho was cristal clear!

Thank you, Anthodocheio, for a "sharp" explanation.  I finally got it!


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## anthodocheio

parakseno said:


> Whatever it is, our dear Antho was cristal clear!
> 
> Thank you, Anthodocheio, for a "sharp" explanation.  I finally got it!


 



My pleasure!


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