# Hebrew cognates to Arabic كَاظِم‎ or from the root ك ظ م‎



## Michael Zwingli

Hello to all forum members. I would like to know if there are any Hebrew cognates to the Arabic name كَاظِم‎ or from the Arabic root ك ظ م, or rather, is this a word and a root that have no cognates in any other language. Thanks in advance for your input.

Also, I should like to know the literal meaning of كَاظِم and the exact sense of the root ك ظ م. Thank you so  much...


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## Drink

There doesn't seem to be. You would expect the Hebrew equivalent of such a root to be כצם or קצם or (or possibly כזם or קזם), but none of these roots seem to exist as far as I can tell. If there was also metathesis, then there are more roots to look for, but that would take a while.


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## djara

I don't know about cognates but the Arabic root ك ظ م conveys the meaning of holding back, containing e.g. one's anger, one's yawning... Etymologically, كَاظِم is therefore someone capable of restraint, self-control.


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## Michael Zwingli

Thank you, Drink...

Phonologically, you would be quite right. I wouldn't even know where to begin in searching for instances of metathesis/transposition; indeed, it seems like it would be a substantial task. Your answer makes me wonder if there is a proto-semitic root which has been lost in Hebrew.

I received the following answer to essentially the same question in the Arabic forum (thanks, djara!): "I don't know about cognates but the Arabic root ك ظ م conveys the meaning of holding back, containing e.g. one's anger, one's yawning... Etymologically, كَاظِم is therefore someone capable of restraint, self-control." 

I wonder, then, what would be the most appropriate roots/words in Hebrew for rendering the same sense?


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## bazq

The Hebrew root that governs this sense is א-פ-ק ('-p-q)

התאפק = restrained himself/held back


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## momai

bazq said:


> The Hebrew root that governs this sense is א-פ-ק ('-p-q)
> 
> התאפק = restrained himself/held back


This one could be related to Arabic w-q-f to stop?


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## Drink

momai said:


> This one could be related to Arabic w-q-f to stop?



Apparently the root means to "be strong" and is related to an Arabic word أَفَقَ meaning "to distinguish oneself". Have you heard of this word?


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## amikama

bazq said:


> The Hebrew root that governs this sense is א-פ-ק ('-p-q)


But this isn't a cognate (obviously).

There's also ר-ס-נ whose consonants (r-s-n) are a bit closer to ك ظ م, but still I don't believe it's a cognate either.


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## bazq

amikama said:


> But this isn't a cognate (obviously).
> 
> There's also ר-ס-נ whose consonants (r-s-n) are a bit closer to ك ظ م, but still, I don't believe it's a cognate either.



Of course, I didn't mean to suggest they were cognates.
רסנ is a great suggestion to convey the idea of the Arabic root discussed here. And no, definitely not cognates either. r-s-n exists in several Semitic languages, including Arabic from what I remember.


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## momai

Drink said:


> Apparently the root means to "be strong" and is related to an Arabic word أَفَقَ meaning "to distinguish oneself". Have you heard of this word?


As far as I know أفق should have meant originally the end of something or something remote. In Classical Arabic as well as in Modern Arabic أفق means _horizon _(the most remote point you see). In dictinaries you find  آفق 'aafiq (pattern: faa3il) which is explained as someone very knowledgeable or in other words someone who reached the end of knowledge.


bazq said:


> Of course, I didn't mean to suggest they were cognates.
> רסנ is a great suggestion to convey the idea of the Arabic root discussed here. And no, definitely not cognates either. r-s-n exists in several Semitic languages, including Arabic from what I remember.


Arabic has رسن (rope) but It seems to me that word is persian in origin.


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## bazq

momai said:


> As far as I know أفق should have meant originally the end of something or something remote. In Classical Arabic as well as in Modern Arabic أفق means _horizon _(the most remote point you see). In dictinaries you find  آفق 'aafiq (pattern: faa3il) which is explained as someone very knowledgeable or in other words someone who reached the end of knowledge.
> 
> Arabic has رسن (rope) but It seems to me that word is persian in origin.



Indeed, in Modern Hebrew א-פ-ק is also used in words related to "horizon". from what I could gather it seems to be a Medieval borrowing from Arabic. The sense of "restrain oneself" is Biblical. Even-Shoshan dictionary references Akkadian where it meant "to be strong", as Drink has mentioned. This falls quite comfortably in line with the Biblical Hebrew sense of "to restrain oneself". The Arabic sense doesn't align as comfortably with them, to me at least. But we're straying off topic a bit 

r-s-n in Hebrew is "a bridle", "to harness", as those we put on animals with, or without a muzzle. How this came to mean also "to restrain" needs no explaining I presume  
What makes you say the Arabic r-s-n is a Persian borrowing? I would have guessed it would mean the same thing, but "rope" isn't that far off...


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## momai

bazq said:


> r-s-n in Hebrew is "a bridle", "to harness", as those we put on animals with, or without a muzzle. How this came to mean also "to restrain" needs no explaining I presume


Well رسن means both a bridle and a rope in Arabic. Only the former persisted in MA.


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## momai

bazq said:


> What makes you say the Arabic r-s-n is a Persian borrowing? I would have guessed it would mean the same thing, but "rope" isn't that far off...


I am not sure but I stumbled upon this on wikipedia.


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## fdb

Arabic rasan “rope” and Biblical Hebrew resen “halter” have been compared with Persian rasan “rope” and Sanskrit raśanā́- “noose, halter”. There are no convincing Indo-European cognates outside of Indo-Iranian (unless with Latin laqueus “noose”). Possibly an early borrowing from Old Iranian to Semitic, or else coincidence.


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## Michael Zwingli

A fascinating discussion. These are a lot of fine ideas that you all have given me, and thank you very much. The fact that the root ك ظ م exists indicates to me that كَاظِم is not a loanword into Arabic. Am I correct in assuming thusly? If so, is the fact that there appears to be no extant cognate root in Hebrew to the Arabic ك ظ م indicative that there might have once been such a cognate root in Hebrew which has been lost, or rather, that ك ظ م itself is cognate to a Proto-Semitic root which is no longer represented in Hebrew? Please feel free to conjecture about this...


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## Mahaodeh

Michael Zwingli said:


> is the fact that there appears to be no extant cognate root in Hebrew to the Arabic ك ظ م indicative that there might have once been such a cognate root in Hebrew which has been lost, or rather, that ك ظ م itself is cognate to a Proto-Semitic root which is no longer represented in Hebrew?



There is also a third possibility, that Arabic at some point in history invented this root by inventing a word that falls within it. Of course, any one of these is possible and I don't see one more possible than the others, especially that there has been other instances of the three cases in other roots. I think that without further evidence we can only make guesses.


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