# je suis Anglais



## robb2002

Hello everyone,

I am rather confused.  When I was in France I used to say to people "je suis anglais," and it was generally accepted that I was from England.  HOWEVER, since moving to Montreal when I say "je suis anglais," here they assume I could be from any country that has English as their first language, let's say England, Canada (they normally think I am Canadian), America, Australia etc.  It really annoys me because I am English and I like to say that I am English.  One of the most ridiculous things I saw in the supermarket the other day was "Concombre Anglaise," so I immediately rushed over to find that they were not English cucumbers, they were in fact a product of Canada, this makes NO sense to me.  I feel like my identity has just been washed away and misunderstood.  I am English should mean I am from England and now I have to state I am from England.

It really offends me when people think I could be any else apart from English (i.e. not from England).  How can I emphasise that I am from England?

Thanks in advance.


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## janpol

tu peux dire "je suis de nationalité anglaise"


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## BAlfson

Robb, get used to it.  It's all of us others that learned to speak English in the last 200 years that define what it is to be "English" - b_on gré, mal gré!_

Cheers - Bob


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## Charlie Parker

What about either "Je suis britannique" or "Je viens d'Angleterre." I have it on good authority. The BBC no less.


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## robb2002

BAlfson said:


> Robb, get used to it.  It's all of us others that learned to speak English in the last 200 years that define what it is to be "English" - b_on gré, mal gré!_
> 
> Cheers - Bob



I guess Bob.  If I say in the US that I am English they know exactly what I mean.  It just seems...strange!!


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## LART01

robb2002 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am rather confused. When I was in France I used to say to people "je suis anglais," and it was generally accepted that I was from England. HOWEVER, since moving to Montreal when I say "je suis anglais," here they assume I could be from any country that has English as their first language, let's say England, Canada (they normally think I am Canadian), America, Australia etc. It really annoys me because I am English and I like to say that I am English. One of the most ridiculous things I saw in the supermarket the other day was "Concombre Anglaise," so I immediately rushed over to find that they were not English cucumbers, they were in fact a product of Canada, this makes NO sense to me. I feel like my identity has just been washed away and misunderstood. I am English should mean I am from England and now I have to state I am from England.
> 
> It really offends me when people think I could be any else apart from English (i.e. not from England). How can I emphasise that I am from England?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hi
This reminds me of a francophone tour guide when leaving Quebec and about to cross the "border" buoyantly exclaimed: _Maintenant on va chez les anglais!


_I was quite puzzled also to hear in Toronto lately Quebecois referred to as the French in plain conversation


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## Pedro y La Torre

robb2002 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am rather confused.  When I was in France I used to say to people "je suis anglais," and it was generally accepted that I was from England.  HOWEVER, since moving to Montreal when I say "je suis anglais," here they assume I could be from any country that has English as their first language, let's say England, Canada (they normally think I am Canadian), America, Australia etc.  It really annoys me because I am English and I like to say that I am English.  One of the most ridiculous things I saw in the supermarket the other day was "Concombre Anglaise," so I immediately rushed over to find that they were not English cucumbers, they were in fact a product of Canada, this makes NO sense to me.  I feel like my identity has just been washed away and misunderstood.  I am English should mean I am from England and now I have to state I am from England.
> 
> It really offends me when people think I could be any else apart from English (i.e. not from England).  How can I emphasise that I am from England?



If you're in Canada, you had better get used to it. It's worse for the Irish and the Scots to be misidentified as English, I assure you.

In Quebec, English/Anglo = Anglophone (of any provenance, but especially white Canadian), French = Francophone, or someone of French heritage. It's a linguistic leftover of the old colonial battle between France and England. 

If you're really that upset by it, ''je viens d'Angleterre'' or ''je suis britannique'' will get the message across; most think that Britain and England are the same thing anyway.


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## Lacuzon

Bonjour,

Maybe you could say I am from Worcestershire, from Norfolk, from Summerset, from Surrey, from Dorset... (adding In England if necessary)?


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## funnyhat

Lacuzon said:


> Bonjour,
> 
> Maybe you could say I am from Worcestershire, from Norfolk, from Summerset, from Surrey, from Dorset... (adding In England if necessary)?



That might add to the confusion.  I don't think the average person in North America is all that familiar with UK geography.  Also, there lots of cities in Canada and the U.S. with British names (such as London, Ontario, or Birmingham, Alabama, etc.).

If you say "Je suis britannique" there should be no confusion.


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## Lacuzon

funnyhat said:


> That might add to the confusion.  I don't think the average person in North America is all that familiar with UK geography.  Also, there lots of cities in Canada and the U.S. with British names (such as London, Ontario, or Birmingham, Alabama, etc.).



Ok, thanks!


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## mancunienne girl

It is not the same to say "Je suis britannique" as it is to say "je suis anglais/e". "Je suis britannique" could mean you were Scottish, Welsh or from Northern Ireland, and anyone from these three separate countries are rightly proud of their own nationalities, which are distinct from that of being English. I still can't understand why anyone should think "I an English" could mean you were an English speaker. After all, when my Spanish friends say "I am Spanish", I wouldn't mistake them for Mexicans?????


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## Pedro y La Torre

mancunienne girl said:


> It is not the same to say "Je suis britannique" as it is to say "je suis anglais/e". "Je suis britannique" could mean you were Scottish, Welsh or from Northern Ireland, and anyone from these three separate countries are rightly proud of their own nationalities, which are distinct from that of being English. I still can't understand why anyone should think "I an English" could mean you were an English speaker. After all, when my Spanish friends say "I am Spanish", I wouldn't mistake them for Mexicans?????



The advice was given more in line with the realities of geographical knowledge outwith the UK than with strict definition of terms in mind; the distinction between British and English is none too well understood by ''Jacques'' Bloggs in Montreal, or, indeed, elsewhere in North America.

''Anglais'' is often used in Quebec to refer to Anglophones, for before the early 1900s, French speakers almost all identified as ''Canadien'' whilst English speakers (excluding the Irish, of course) preferred the demonym ''English''. When you take into account the old Anglo-French rivalry that has always characterized Canadian history, the continued use of English and French to mean ''Anglophone'' and ''Francophone'' really isn't very surprising.

You'll also hear many everyday Americans refer to Mexicans as ''Spanish'', by the way.
Meaning is ever dependent on context.


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## mancunienne girl

I think you've probably hit the old nail on the head there Pedro. If I say "Je suis anglaise" in France, nobody has every minsunderstood me to have said I'm Irish or Canadian, and I'm surprised at Robb's experience ,  but across the pond you are probably right and I can see why..... but it does therefore make the word "anglophone" redundant and the word "anglais" entirely ambiguous, and it is the precision of the English language which makes it so unique!!


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## Pedro y La Torre

mancunienne girl said:


> I think you've probably hit the old nail on the head there Pedro. If I say "Je suis anglaise" in France, nobody has every minsunderstood me to have said I'm Irish or Canadian, and I'm surprised at Robb's experience ,  but across the pond you are probably right and I can see why..... but it does therefore make the word "anglophone" redundant and the word "anglais" entirely ambiguous, and it is the precision of the English language which makes it so unique!!



Unfortunately for English's ostensibly unique precision, English Canadians do the exact same thing, that is to say ''French'' will, more often than not, refer to a French Canadian, not a beret-wearing wine-drinker such as one finds in Europe.


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## funnyhat

mancunienne girl said:


> It is not the same to say "Je suis britannique" as it is to say "je suis anglais/e". "Je suis britannique" could mean you were Scottish, Welsh or from Northern Ireland, and anyone from these three separate countries are rightly proud of their own nationalities, which are distinct from that of being English.



You are correct of course, but on this side of the Atlantic, "British/britannique" almost always is used for people from England specifically.  If someone tells me that a person speaks with a "British accent," they almost certainly mean an English accent. 

And Pedro is correct - a "French" person in Canada, and a "Spanish" person in the U.S., is often simply someone who speaks that language, regardless of his/her background.


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## bobepine

I confirm all of the above regarding French/English to refer to linguistic background rather than geographic origin/nationality. 

As a side note, English cucumbers are a variety, also known as seedless, European, burpless or hothouse cucumbers...and again, it has nothing to do with geography.

And lastly, I'm always wary of sweeping generalizations such as the unique precision of the English language. I had a France-French professor who insisted that it was a hallmark of the French language...much more so than English


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## JsDubois

Désolé mais this is just how things are here in areas of French Canada. It may take sometime getting used to, but it is just how we get it across that you're not Francophone. Just like if I were to go to say places like Ontario or Winnipeg they would call me French and I am in fact Québécois! And yes, there is a HUGE difference. 

You can always say je suis britannique ou je suis d'angleterre


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## mancunienne girl

JsDubois..... we already discussed the "je suis britannique", and I have to insist that "je suis anglais" only strictly means one thing; otherwise the dictionary definition would be incorrect.... WRD's own dictionary gives a perfectly good definition - "les Anglais" are English people, not English speakers.... just because some people say something, does not mean it is correct. And for me somebody who is Spanish is a person from Spain. If he is Mexican, Guatemalan, or Puerto Rican, he is just that, as well as being a Spanish speaker. The same in English. You are Canadian, and a francopohone. Americans are American, but anglophones. 


And, at the risk of being reprimanded for going off thread, I still maintain English is more precise - we could start talking about the verb "aimer"... for example.... not nearly precise enough...


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## mancunienne girl

Pedro: 


> "The advice was given more in line with the realities of geographical knowledge outwith the UK than with strict definition of terms in mind; the distinction between British and English is none too well understood by ''Jacques'' Bloggs in Montreal, or, indeed, elsewhere in North America"



I don't think one's ignorance of geography is relevant to the meaning of an English word. If an American is American, I will call him that, irrespective of whether I've never heard of the town he's from?


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## All in One

Notez bien qu'on écrit toujours _Je suis anglais_ (adj.) et _C'est un Anglais_ (nom).


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## pointvirgule

All in One said:


> Notez bien qu'on écrit toujours _Je suis anglais_ (adj.) [...]


Non, pas nécessairement. _Je suis Anglais_ est tout à fait correct si on considère _Anglais _comme un nom.
Tout comme _plombier_ n'est pas un adjectif dans _Je suis plombier. _Voir ce post.

To robb2002: To avoid any ambiguity, you can always specify, _Je suis Anglais d'Angleterre_.


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## orlando09

mancunienne girl said:


> JsDubois..... we already discussed the "je suis britannique", and I have to insist that "je suis anglais" only strictly means one thing;..



You insisting won't change what people say and understand - for historical reasons - in Quebec! It looks like "je suis d'Angleterre" or "je viens d'Angleterre" is the solution if Robb is keen to make sure people know exactly where he's from. I suggest Robb doesn't visit the Amish, who call anyone who's not Amish "the English".. You can't change the quirks of how different societies use words.


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## Pedro y La Torre

mancunienne girl said:


> Pedro:
> I don't think one's ignorance of geography is relevant to the meaning of an English word. If an American is American, I will call him that, irrespective of whether I've never heard of the town he's from?



You're missing what I am saying. For many in North America (cf. funnyhat) and Ireland too, for that matter, British = English. That may not be ''dictionary'' correct, but that is what is commonly understood.
When you hear Republicans chanting ''Brits Out'' in Belfast, they aren't talking about the Welsh or the Scots. Equally, when people refer to ''the Soviets'', I'll bet you think of Russians, and not people from Tajikistan.

Now, the opening poster wanted to know how to communicate to Montrealers to underscore the fact that he is English, not merely an Anglophone; if _communication_ is key, then it is advisable to say je suis anglais d'Angleterre or, simply, je suis britannique. What the OED thinks of it is irrelevant.

A word can have many meanings, that found in the dictionary, and that in common usage; meaning, of course, evolves.
If Canadians say English/Anglais to mean Anglophone, it isn't wrong, it's merely a supplementary regional addendum to the word English. Your cultural conditioning makes you associate ''English'' purely with Englishmen, for North Americans, that is not necessarily the case. Indeed, Americans during the Revolution fought for their ''rights as Englishmen''; in that part of the world, English has any number of meanings which it does not back in Manchester.


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## mancunienne girl

orlando09 said:


> You insisting won't change what people say and understand - for historical reasons - in Quebec! It looks like "je suis d'Angleterre" or "je viens d'Angleterre" is the solution if Robb is keen to make sure people know exactly where he's from. I suggest Robb doesn't visit the Amish, who call anyone who's not Amish "the English".. You can't change the quirks of how different societies use words.


 I don't want to change the "quirks" of the way a particular nation speaks English, but to recognise that these are indeed quirks.... the Oxford Dictionary provides the following definitions:

adjective 

relating to England or its people or language. 

noun 

1_ [mass noun]_ the language of England, now widely used in many varieties throughout the world. 


2 (as plural noun *the English*) the people of England. 


3_ [mass noun]_ _North American_ spin or side given to a ball, especially in pool or billiards: _put more English on the ball

and the WRD dictionary also says "English" is either the language or someone from England..... 

Lots of people misuse English, but just because they do, does not mean it is correct, especially when it leads to confusion or misinterpretation. I don't see why an English person should have to explain further that he from England, any more than someone from Canada or America would have to say "I am Canadian, from Canada" or "I am American, from America". That would be tautological??_


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## Pedro y La Torre

Obviously this is going no-where. Let's just agree to disagree.


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## mancunienne girl

[…]

And funnily enough, on my travels throughout the world, including the States, whenever I have personally said "I am English", nobody has ever misinterpreted this.....perhaps I've just been lucky.


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## orlando09

mancunienne girl said:


> I don't want to change the "quirks" of the way a particular nation speaks English, but to recognise that these are indeed quirks.... the Oxford Dictionary provides the following definitions:



The Oxford Dictionary is just a dictionary of British English; different usages around the world aren't necessarily "wrong". Also no language is fixed forever and words gain new meanings (which are then added to dictionaries if enough people use them for long enough). For example the word "nice" has meant at different times, ignorant, foolish, precise and pleasant.


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## broglet

... mais_ Je parle anglais _(nom)


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## mancunienne girl

Which kind? BE, AE, CE?


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## wildan1

mancunienne girl said:


> 3_ [mass noun]_ _North American_ spin or side given to a ball, especially in pool or billiards: _put more English on the ball_


The Oxford Dictionary, in this case, is not infallible. Giving a spin to a ball in a sport over here is called_ body English_--not just "_English." _When we say that, we don't think of the people coming from England, but our language--which also is called _English_--i.e., body language.

As for what other people assume or prefer to say or use in their home countries--we all are visitors elsewhere from home, and to understand what is local you have to accept the perceptions of those who call that place home.


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## funnyhat

mancunienne girl said:


> And funnily enough, on my travels throughout the world, including the States, whenever I have personally said "I am English", nobody has ever misinterpreted this.....perhaps I've just been lucky.



Well, if you were speaking English at the time, your accent probably gave it away.

I understand your perspective, but you have to keep in mind that in a foreign country, some of the cultural norms you're used to don't apply.  For instance, the UK/European definition of "Yank/Yankee" is different from the U.S. definition.  Here, it's only used to refer to Northerners (often in a mildly insulting way), but abroad it seems to be a generic term for an American.


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## risby

Just in case this thread runs out of steam  what if someone says "je suis britannique" couldn't their interlocutor be forgiven for thinking they were a Breton, i.e. from Brittany, and therefore French.


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## BAlfson

A native from the region would never refer to himself as _britannique_ because he doesn't call his land "Brittany" - it's _Bretagne_, and he would say, "_Je suis Breton._"

But, a real Breton would probably say, "Breizhad on" in his Celtic language. 

Cheers - Bob


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## Lacuzon

Bonsoir,

I agree with BAlfson, britannique is only for "grands-bretons" i.e. inhabitants of Great Britain.


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