# Public displays of religous belief



## emma42

Yesterday I saw something which I had never seen before.  I got onto the tram, sat down, and found myself sitting opposite a man and a woman who were quietly holding rosaries and taking it in turns to say the "Hail Mary".  They were not being ostentatious about it, but were deeply involved in what they were doing.  When the tram got to my stop, the couple disembarked too and we smiled at eachother.

I found this extraordinary behaviour and I was actually quite touched by it (even though I am atheist).  

Is this kind of behaviour more common in more "Catholic" countries?  And what of other public (ie not in a traditional place of worship) manifestations of this sort?


----------



## cherine

In Egypt it's very common seeing people in the tram, bus, train... reading the Koran or the Bible, holding the rosaries (both Christians and Muslims use rosaries).... it's not shocking or strange at all


----------



## emma42

Thank you, Cherine.  That is most interesting.  I wonder whether this sort of thing is more common in parts of Ireland (the man had an Irish accent).


----------



## Ana Raquel

I have never seen people holding rosaries at the street or transport  here in Spain.

I just  recognise the religions of people from their attire and just muslims, ortodox jews, and sikhs. In Spain only the muslims and the others in other countries but not in Spain.


----------



## Brioche

Reading books on the bus or train is very common here. Occasionally I have seen people reading the Bible on the bus, but I have never seen a person praying.


----------



## emma42

Yes, reading books in general is also common here (I often find this frustrating, as I _have _to see what people are reading and have been known to enquire if I can't work it out by spying!)  I have just remembered that I saw the lady at the corner shop (Indian) reading Hindu scripture last year.


----------



## Etcetera

I think I would be greatly impressed on seeing anything like that, Emma. Here in Russia people almost never show their belief in public. I suppose it may somehow be connected with the fact that in Soviet times religion was forbidden. 
I was actually reading the New Testament in the bus once - I was going to my The Bible and Culture exam. I guess I must look very strange to people... And my friend also remembered that people looked at her rather disapprovingly when she was reading St. Matthew's Gospel in the metro (it was a Greek-Latin-Russian-English edition, and she was reading it for our Latin exam.


----------



## emma42

Yes, Etcetera, I was impressed. I was impressed with the absolute sincerity and obliviousness to what anyone else would think. I have never seen it before. I somehow wanted to smile at them to show that I appreciated their sincerity or something...I must be becoming soft in my old age because I vehemently disagree with much of what the Catholic Church has to say about things!  I often smile at Muslims too, to show that not every non-Muslim thinks they are all terrorists.

Do you think the disapproval in Russia might come from the communist heritage? Poor you and your friend, studying for your exams!


----------



## Etcetera

Yes, I think so. We discussed this topic once with my Polish friend Joanna, she's a historian. It is obvious that communist ideology has influenced Russia greatly - I hope this influence won't last forever. However, most people are rather tolerant to those who believe in God - even if they're atheists. 
But... I myself belong to the Orthodox church (my views are somehow more Roman Catholic than Orthodox, though), but I don't think I'd like to show my belief in public. It's too personal.


----------



## maxiogee

For the rosary to be seen might be unusual here. Most devout people would own one, but would be able to enumerate the prayers without its aid. One of the most obvious signs here of someone's Catholicism is the practice of making the Sign of the Cross when passing a church.
With the proliferation of Walkman's, iPods, hands-free mobile phones it is no longer unusual to see someone's lips moving without worrying about them being alone.


----------



## Etcetera

Well, same for the Orthodox - but in fact, very few people do make the Sign of the Cross when passing a church. They may not know of this rule, though - after the communists' reign here most traditions were forgotten. 
That's why I laugh whenever I hear about 'strong Orthodox traditions in Russia'. It sounds ridiculous!


----------



## emma42

Yes, the sign of the cross is made here by some when, for instance, funeral processions go by.  It is a shame that we don't all still wear hats because it used to be that you could take off your hat to show respect or sympathy for the bereaved.


----------



## maxiogee

emma42 said:
			
		

> Yes, the sign of the cross is made here by some when, for instance, funeral processions go by.  It is a shame that we don't all still wear hats because it used to be that you could take off your hat to show respect or sympathy for the bereaved.




Only men did that, surely.
I never saw a behatted woman remove her hat in public.

Blame the motorcar for the loss of hats.


----------



## mytwolangs

Hmmm, OK.
In America, we have these folks called "Jehovahs witness" who go door to door trying to get people to convert to Jehovah. 
Last time they came to my humble abode, I opened the door and said - "whatever religion you are selling, I am not interested" 
They promptly left. 
Or once in a while, people will ask if you have heard the "good news", and that can only mean one thing, prepare to hear about how someone died for us. And I always thought the "good news" meant they saved money on their car insurance by switching to Geiko.
Other than THAT, you might see people praying or reading the bible, but they don't really have "services" in public.


----------



## vince

Here in Canada religious Muslims can be seen in public buildings such as university areas praying toward Makka several times a day. Many times they gather together to pray, though I've seen a single person alone once.


----------



## emma42

Yes, mytwolangs, Jehovah's Witnesses do the same thing here.  But I was really talking about individuals doing "religious" things in public.


----------



## la reine victoria

We have two wonderful traditions in my village. 

On Palm Sunday there is a public procession along the High Street to the church. It is led by a child on a donkey and everyone carries a very large leaf (the nearest thing resembling a palm leaf).

On Rogation Sunday an open air service is held on one of the farms. The vicar leads everyone around the farm and fields and blesses the animals, crops, trees, river, praying that all will be fruitful. 

To me this service shows the pagan roots of Christianity. Very interesting and far more meaningful than a service in church.



Edit:  I hope this adequately describes individuals doing religious things in public.




LRV


----------



## emma42

"Pagan roots of Christianity"?  I think Mr J Christ might have something to say about that!


----------



## Etcetera

The first tradition described by La Reine Victoria must have its roots in the New Testament. But as for the second tradition - I don't know, really. I've never heard of anything like that... it sounds so interesting!


----------



## lauranazario

Here in Puero Rico it's not uncommon to see some people wearing a Rosary around their necks (mind you, I'm talking about real Rosaries, not rosary-like jewelry _à la_ Madonna in the 80s).

I have seen devouts wear them... and even a drug-addled beggar on a busy downtown intersection.

As I truly believe spirituality is a deeply individual experience, I have never had the need to go directly to a Rosary-wearing person and ask him or her the reason behind their choice. People feel closer to God, Jesus or the Virgin Mary in many, many ways --and the Rosary is just one of them.
.
.
.
.
Ah, during the month of October you will see a sharp increase in the number of people wearing Rosaries around their necks (both men and women), as October is "Rosary Month" for the (local) Catholic Church.

Saludos,
LN


----------



## Auryn

I once saw a Muslim man praying in the middle of a busy shopping centre, complete with prayer mat. That was unusual to say the least.


----------



## tvdxer

emma42 said:
			
		

> Yesterday I saw something which I had never seen before.  I got onto the tram, sat down, and found myself sitting opposite a man and a woman who were quietly holding rosaries and taking it in turns to say the "Hail Mary".  They were not being ostentatious about it, but were deeply involved in what they were doing.  When the tram got to my stop, the couple disembarked too and we smiled at eachother.
> 
> I found this extraordinary behaviour and I was actually quite touched by it (even though I am atheist).
> 
> Is this kind of behaviour more common in more "Catholic" countries?  And what of other public (ie not in a traditional place of worship) manifestations of this sort?


I've never seen such a thing in the U.S (outside a church!).  Although on occasion my family (and others) will say grace in a restaurant before eating.  

In Costa Rica, a very Catholic country, I do remember seeing a young woman, probably of about 20 years age, making the sign of a cross will walking across the front of a church.  I thought that was very beautiful.


----------



## GenJen54

Where I live, in the proverbial buckle of the "Bible Belt," open religious displays are fairly common. 

Most of the religious faithful are Protestant, and express their faith either by saying grace before meals in restaurants (as tvdxer has also noted), or by holding bible study groups in local coffee shops.

On Sundays, or Wednesday evenings in particular, it is not unheard of to see several groups in the neighborhood Starbucks partaking in what I call "caffeine fellowship."  They pray, read scripture, read and share from other faith books, and of course, partake in their favorite coffee-shop beverage.  I've also seen individuals study in this way both in coffee shops and the bookstores.

I have also seen a few individuals read or study the bible in my chiropractor's waiting room.  He is also a person of faith, and sometimes pipes religious-based "pop" music through his in-office speakers.


----------



## tvdxer

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Where I live, in the proverbial buckle of the "Bible Belt," open religious displays are fairly common.
> 
> Most of the religious faithful are Protestant, and express their faith either by saying grace before meals in restaurants (as tvdxer has also noted), or by holding bible study groups in local coffee shops.
> 
> On Sundays, or Wednesday evenings in particular, it is not unheard of to see several groups in the neighborhood Starbucks partaking in what I call "caffeine fellowship."  They pray, read scripture, read and share from other faith books, and of course, partake in their favorite coffee-shop beverage.  I've also seen individuals study in this way both in coffee shops and the bookstores.
> 
> I have also seen a few individuals read or study the bible in my chiropractor's waiting room.  He is also a person of faith, and sometimes pipes religious-based "pop" music through his in-office speakers.



I've seen the same thing at our local book store, and when I was taking driving lessons my instructor would do the same as your chiropractor.  I never thought of these as being in the same category as what Emma witnessed, though.


----------



## panjabigator

Many waiting rooms have a bible handy.  
As a personal note, everytime my family passes a church my father bows his head in respect.


----------



## danielfranco

I've observed in my other obsession, violent sports, that the fighters often pray, kowtow, or make the sign of the cross before a fight. And often praise God publicly for giving them the strength to pummel the living daylights out of their rival. This is not only an American fighter custom, but it seems to be part of the sport ideology because fighters from all over the world do the same thing.


----------



## Etcetera

Aha! I've just remembered Turin 2006. 
Our wonderful Tatiana Navka was praying before her dance with Roman Kostomarov, and  Eugeny Pluschenko made the Sign of Cross before coming onto the ice. It impressed me greatly! And I felt even more respect for them...


----------



## la reine victoria

And I've just remembered when I was on a very quiet beach in southern Spain.

A very large Spanish lady waded into the sea, crossed herself for God's protection, and dived into the depths.  





LRV


----------



## maxiogee

I've forgotten to mention the biggest "public" display of religious faith here - the Roman Catholic prayer, the Angelus (was recited at 6am, noon and 6 pm) is tolled by church bells in many places. This habit is dying out. But, the national broadcaster - RTE (both radio and television) sound the bell at 6pm daily. The early evening news begins at 6:01pm on television. The main radio channel broadcast it at both noon and 6pm.
It used to be held by some that this was a "problem" for our "separated brethren" on the island. But nowadays there are infrequent flurries of hostility to this practice being out of place in what is ever-more-rapidly becoming a _truly_ multi-cultural society.


----------



## Isiltasuna

In the North of Spain I don't see specific religious symbols normally, but in small towns, of the centre of Spain, the widows still wear mourning clothes. In my village people wear normal clothes in funerals.

Question for the USA people: One thing that suprise me is that in USA the dollar note (you use the term bill = note) you can read "In God We Trust", and the when you swear to the flag yo do too in the name of God. That suprise me a lot 'cause where I live people don't mind a lot (except many old people) about religious things.

PS. I'm sorry 'cause of my english.


----------



## lizzeymac

Isiltasuna said:
			
		

> In the North of Spain I don't see specific religious symbols normally, but in small towns, of the centre of Spain, the widows still wear mourning clothes. In my village people wear normal clothes in funerals.
> 
> Question for the USA people: One thing that suprise me is that in USA the dollar note (you use the term bill = note) you can read "In God We Trust", and the when you swear to the flag yo do too in the name of God. That suprise me a lot 'cause where I live people don't mind a lot (except many old people) about religious things.
> 
> PS. I'm sorry 'cause of my english.



Hi Isiltasuna - 
Your English is good.  
It is confusing to some Americans, also. The "God" phrases were additions to both the money & the Pledge.  Obviously atheists object to it.  Some very conservative Fundamentalists & some Amish & Mennonites do not say the Pledge as they do not believe in taking religious oaths.  

In 1955 a law was passed that all new designs for coin and currency would bear the inscription "In God We Trust." Those words had first appeared on a U.S. coin--the two-cent piece--in 1864.  Some coins had some mention of God prior to this.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister.  Bellamy was a Christian Socialist - I think many Americans would be surprised about that.  Later in his life he was forced out of his church for his Socialist views.
In 1954 (during the Red Communist Scare), after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, Congress added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge.  Bellamy's grandaughter objected publicly, as Bellamy had made clear when he wrote the Pledge that he puposefully did not include God or religon.  The Congress ignored her objections.

On Topic:  I have seen several lunch-time Christian prayer groups meeting in Central Park, usually on Wednesdays. I have also seen Bhuddists praying in the park.  Last year a local Catholic hurch held a lovely Vespers ceremony in the park by the East River.  I have seen quite a few people saying the rosary sitting in the small parks in Little Italy or in Little Ukraine. I have also seen a few Wiccan prayer groups in the Central Park during the solstice & at Halloween.  I have seen many Muslims praying in public spaces or in their offices & a few companies have created prayer rooms for Muslim employees.  
There's a Catholic convent, a Mosque and a Temple within 6 block of my house.
New York is a fairly religious place, in it's own peculiar way.


----------



## maxiogee

For many alcoholics, AA can be a staging-post on the way back to religious practice.
On my one and only visit to Central Park I was with my wife and our son. As we had been in America for over a week at that point and I hadn't been to an AA meeting, my wife asked if I was comfortable with that, and (were I to feel like getting a meeting) would I be able to find one easily. As she was speaking we were walking past two women who were sitting on the ground facing each other, talking. One had a book in her lap, open at a page I knew well - it was the "big book" of AA. Without interrupting the women I just said to my wife, "If I need a meeting, I'll be able to find one." I was stunned by the synchronicity.


----------



## MarcB

"In God we trust all others pay cash" pre-credit card sign in stores. Back to topic. I have seen many ouvert religious displays in the US Christians( Catholic and Protestant) Jewish ( mostly Hassidim)including dress, Sikhs dress, hair and turbans. Muslim and a few Budhist. Amish and Menonites are obvious just by their dress, Lack of electricity and modernity are others. I have no objection live and let live. A humourous anecdote a small child in an airport seeing many Hassidim " Mommy look they are all twins."


----------



## Isiltasuna

lizzeymac thnaks you very much 'casuse of yoir explanation, very interesting. One more thing that I learn today.


----------

