# la partita è aperta



## anglomania1

Hi there, 
I'm translating some articles about wine and this is the title of one of them:

*Barolo vs Brunello la partita è aperta*

I found "partita aperta" in a thread, but it refers to bookkeeping!
In this case, could it be something like "the game is on"??

The article talks of how sales of Barolo have tripled and how collectors are beginning to prefer it to Brunello.

Any comments or suggestions?
Thanks, 
Anglo


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## sorry66

'the game is on' seems good to me!


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## Blackman

Aperta, in this context, means that opponents are equivalent, no one can say who's going to win. Game is open to any result.


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## sorry66

'Head to head'?


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## Benzene

_*Hello anglo!*

Propongo: "la partita è aperta" = "the game is open (and the stakes are high)".

Bye,

*Benzene*_


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## Necsus

A quanto sembra, in italiano è resa con "la partita è aperta" anche una frase tipica di Sherlock Holmes, "the game is afoot", dall'Enrico IV di Shakespeare.


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## sorry66

Sorry, I don't think 'the game is afoot' is apt here. The register doesn't seem right.
_"Before the game is afoot, thou still let'st slip."_
I think the OP suggestion is good.


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## anglomania1

Thanks everyone for all your quick replies!
I'm glad to see I was on the right track  (and hadn't completely misunderstood as usual!)
I think "the game is on"is what I'll go for -it was the first thing that crossed my mind and it fits the context (anyone could win it!)
Anglo


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## Blackman

Sembra che io sia in minoranza. A mio avviso, se il senso è quello che intendono i miei fellow natives, la scelta dell'espressione è quantomeno infelice. Io avrei optato per un _la partita è cominciata/la sfida ha inizio. _Le partite non si aprono, iniziano. Una partita è definita aperta quando non si può predire il risultato.


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## Necsus

Sorry66, I wouldn't suggest it as a current translation, that's the meaning.


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## sorry66

@Blackman Oh, I see.  So, it's more like what Benzene said (Who will win?') 'The game is open'.


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## MR1492

anglomania1 said:


> Thanks everyone for all your quick replies!
> I'm glad to see I was on the right track  (and hadn't completely misunderstood as usual!)
> I think "the game is on"  is what I'll go for -it was the first thing that crossed my mind and it fits the context (anyone could win it!)
> Anglo



Agree with you but I wouldn't completely rule out Necsus' suggestion of "the games afoot."  Personally, I think in the right context that translation could be quite apt.

Phil


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## Blackman

sorry66 said:


> @Blackman Oh, I see.  So, it's more like what Benzene said 'Who will win?', 'The game is open'.


That's what it means to me, it actually sounds similar to Benzene's opinion
, but wait for him.


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## Paulfromitaly

Blackman said:


> Una partita è definita aperta quando non si può predire il risultato.


This is how I read it too.


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## Necsus

Blackman said:


> Sembra che io sia in minoranza. A mio avviso, se il senso è quello che intendono i miei fellow natives, la scelta dell'espressione è quantomeno infelice. Io avrei optato per un _la partita è cominciata/la sfida ha inizio. _Le partite non si aprono, iniziano. Una partita è definita aperta quando non si può predire il risultato.


Black, capisco quello che vuoi dire, ma _iniziare/avere inizio _è uno dei significati correnti, anche se figurati, di _aprire _(Treccani.4), e in questo caso personalmente non la interpreto come una partita già iniziata e il cui esito è incerto, vista la spiegazione ("how sales of Barolo have tripled and how collectors are beginning to prefer it to Brunello"), ma che ha inizio ora, con le attuali condizioni. Il senso a mio avviso è più "la sfida è lanciata", anche se forse non c'è l'intenzionalità che questa espressione sottintenderebbe.


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## Tellure

Blackman said:


> Una partita è definita aperta quando non si può predire il risultato.


Infatti!
Da treccani.it:
Più in partic., di cosa il cui esito è indeciso, quindi ancora imprevedibile, o impregiudicato; così, nello sport, gara a., gara per la quale non si può pronosticare il vincitore; analogam., partita ancora a., quella in cui il risultato in atto può essere modificato o addirittura capovolto


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## Blackman

Converrai con me Nec, che la scelta non è felicissima. Riesco anche a intravedere il significato che gli dai tu: più o meno da a_desso c'è una partita, se non ve ne eravate accorti,  una partita è in corso. _È pur vero che i nostri punti di vista possono coesistere e lasciare libertà di scelta all'OP.


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## Necsus

Certo. Semplicemente secondo me non è ipotizzabile che  esistesse un confronto già prima, visto che il Barolo ha dovuto triplicare le vendite per andare a insidiare il Brunello.


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## Blackman

Dunque _game is_ _afoot _è proprio la traduzione perfetta, per stile e registro...


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## MR1492

Just another option to consider comes from horse racing.  You could say "The field is wide open."  In this case, the field is the group of horses running in any particular race.  

Phil


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## Paulfromitaly

la partita è aperta = la partita ha esito incerto (neck and neck)

NON

la partita è aperta = la partita è iniziata


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## Necsus

Non sarei così categorico, Paul. Per le mie limitate conoscenze, a livello semantico sono valide tutte e due le interpretazioni, dipendentemente dal contesto. E in questo caso personalmente propendo per "la partita è (stata) aperta", a meno che naturalmente non vengano portati elementi oggettivi che facciano escludere questa lettura. Poi ognuno darà il significato che più gli sembra plausibile.


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## sorry66

'The game is afoot' means the game has started/it's in action.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/afoot
'B and B are neck and neck (in something e.g. in the race to be the best wine)'. Seems a little incomplete otherwise.
I think the problem with 'the field is wide open' is that it suggests a range of choices rather than a competition.
I still think 'the game is open' is the best option here. (it suggests an uncertain outcome in a competition)


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## Tellure

Non so più a questo punto se traduce bene il concetto della frase italiana, ma ho visto che quando si tratta di "scontri" di questo tipo, sui giornali inglesi online si legge spesso "Let battle commence". 
https://www.google.it/search?q=vers...c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..9.0.0.v1rYbZzx-bw

Solo un'idea come un'altra...


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## sorry66

@Tellure
Good idea! Except I would say 'Let the battle commence/begin!'
'Let battle commence!' is the shortened version, often used in headlines.


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## sound shift

I too think Tellure's idea is a good one. Personally, I could, and would, say out loud "Let battle commence", without "the". (Sadly, I won't be in this battle: Barolo and Brunello are both a bit pricy for me; when it comes to Montalcino I have to content myself with "Rosso".)


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## sorry66

https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...tle commence;,c0;;let the battle commence;,c0

https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra... battle commence;,c0;;Let Battle Commence;,c0

'Let battle commence' seems a more recent coinage but either one will do.


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## TimLA

I wonder if a slightly different approach might work, not necessarily as a translation, but as a concept:
...the winner has yet to be determined.
...the votes are not yet in.
...no winner/victor/loser yet.
...the king has not been crowned.
...the outcome is unclear.
...the fat lady has yet to sing.


I think a more figurative approach would be Necsus' 'the game is afoot' (plus I like Sherlock)


I vote for Brunello!


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## sorry66

'The game is afoot' is not so different to the OP 'the game is on'.
The 'game' in the older expression originally referred to chasing prey but that doesn't matter anymore, we know what it means in modern English.
In the modern TV series 'Sherlock', Holmes says 'the game is on' rather than 'the game is afoot' (from Conan Doyle - The Adventure of the Abbey Grange). I think they changed it because 'the game is afoot' is not in common usage. Well, compared to 'the game is on'.


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## MR1492

For an AE audience, a slight variation on TimLA's suggestion that I like is "The fat lady hasn't sung yet," should work.  

Phil


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## sorry66

I can't say I'm familiar with the 'fat lady' expression but I don't really watch much sport.

From Wiki: "_The phrase is most commonly used in association with organized competitions, particularly sports_."
_"It means that one should not presume to know the outcome of an event which is still in progress. More specifically, the phrase is used when a situation is (or appears to be) nearing its conclusion."
_
I don't think the battle of Barolo and Brunello is nearing its conclusion.

Wiki also compares it with the following phrases:

"_It's not over till it's over_", (lots of football (soccer) commentators use that one - it's a bit of a classic)

"_Don't count your chickens before they are hatched_", a well-known saying which originated in the 16th century.
"_Nothing is carved in stone"_, a phrase meaning that the future can always be changed.
Again, I don't think any of these would work for the OP.


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## MR1492

Well, I think either "It's not over until it's over," or "It's not over until the fat lady sings," would work.  They both mean (to me at least) that the competition is still underway and that the outcome has not been decided.

By the way, the colloquial versions in AE use "It ain't over until ..." and the "fat lady" expression comes from a sportscaster in San Antonio, Texas (allegedly) in this article.

Phil


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## london calling

May the best wine win.


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## sorry66

Perfect!


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## sound shift

"Barolo takes on Brunello"


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## MR1492

london calling said:


> May the best wine win.



Non c'è male, LC!!!


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## sorry66

@sound shift Actually, it's 'Brunello takes on Barolo'! Not bad either!


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## london calling

MR1492 said:


> Non c'è male, LC!!!


Thanks, mate!


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## sound shift

sorry66 said:


> @sound shift Actually, it's 'Brunello takes on Barolo'! Not bad either!


Thanks. I would have thought so too, but post 1) gave me the opposite impression. Anyway, it's about the structure; the blanks can be filled in as people see fit.


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## sorry66

@sound shift Yes, you're right, it's the other way round! I thought Barolo was the established wine.


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## anglomania1

Wow, what a discussion!!
Thanks everyone - there are some good options here. 
I have discarded "the game is afoot" as it doesn't sound very modern to me (Shakespeare and Conan Doyle!). In fact, I  agree with sorry66 that Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock says "the game is on" - which seems to be the more modern version.
I've never heard of the fat lady phrase - nice though.
Also "Barolo takes on Brunello" is very nice, so I might go for that, or stick to the original "the game is on". 
Thanks to everyone
Anglo


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## sorry66

anglomania1 said:


> I've never heard of the fat lady phrase


That makes two of us!


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## MR1492

MR1492 said:


> By the way, the colloquial versions in AE use "It ain't over until ..." and the "fat lady" expression comes from a sportscaster in San Antonio, Texas (allegedly) in this article.





anglomania1 said:


> I've never heard of the fat lady phrase - nice though.
> 
> 
> sorry66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That makes two of us!
Click to expand...


This must be one of those AE/BE things.  This phrase is such an integral part of AE that I think I would be hard pressed to find many people who weren't familiar with the expression.

Phil


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## TimLA

MR1492 said:


> This must be one of those AE/BE things.  This phrase is such an integral part of AE that I think I would be hard pressed to find many people who weren't familiar with the expression.
> 
> Phil




Edit: "Swingin' a dead cat" is a classic!
____And THAT didn't come from Monty Python.


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## MR1492

@TimLA,

I was about to say I couldn't swing a dead cat in a crowded theater and hit 10 people who didn't understand it but thought that might be too AE! 

Phil


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## sorry66

MR1492 said:


> I was about to say I couldn't swing a dead cat in a crowded theater and hit 10 people who didn't understand it but thought that might be too AE!


Well, I understand that! But we usually swing cats (dead or alive) in pokey rooms!
The expression is 'No room to swing a cat' but I'm sure you know that.


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## sound shift

"Barolo goes head-to-head with Brunello"
"Barolo guns for Brunello"


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## Giobbetto

Paulfromitaly said:


> la partita è aperta = la partita ha esito incerto (neck and neck)
> 
> NON
> 
> la partita è aperta = la partita è iniziata



Dal mio punto di vista la definizione "partita aperta" altro non è che un termine scacchistico che indica una "apertura di gioco aperto" (1. e4-e5), ovvero una prima mossa iniziale che sviluppa un gioco aggressivo.
E' anche vero che, come spesso accade, questo termine viene utilizzato in altri ambiti e contesti per indicare una partita dall'esito incerto e forse se ne è perso il concetto che sta alla base, ovvero quello di "apertura", "inizio".
Blackman ha scritto: ".. le partite non si aprono, iniziano"; ebbene negli scacchi le due cose coincidono.

In my honest opinion "partita aperta" is a chess term that indicate a chess opening called "Open Game" or "Double king's pawn opening" (1. e4-e5). We are talking about an aggressive opening move. 
Anyway this term is often used in other contexts to indicate a match with an uncertain outcome, by losing its original meaning of "opening", "start".

My attempt:
Barolo Vs Brunello: the game just started

(sono passati due anni, lo so, scusate il ritardo)


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## johngiovanni

"Barolo v Brunello: it's all up for grabs."   (It's all to play for).

"Barolo v Brunello: game on!"  (Like the earlier suggestion, but often the "the" and the "is" are omitted.)
"Game on!" : "used to show that a competition of some kind is about to start, usually when you are excited about it"  (Cambridge Dictionary).


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## Flaviam88

What about 'Let the games begin'?


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## karakalla

Flaviam88 said:


> What about 'Let the games begin'?


Almost three years later ... I like this one!

I've got another example and so another query : at the end of a description of Season One of a spy thriller, everything seems to have been resolved, but in fact "la partita resterà aperta"    In this case, the game is not on. Balls are in play, or a ball is in play, but that's no good either and is too colloquial AE.   I'm sure there's something slangy but not too slangy for this  ...?


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## theartichoke

Hmm. The only thing coming to mind is pretty banal: "but just when you thought it was over....". Depending on what's happening, "but the chase is still on" might work. 

Someone else can probably do better!


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## london calling

karakalla said:


> Almost three years later ... I like this one!
> 
> I've got another example and so another query : at the end of a description of Season One of a spy thriller, everything seems to have been resolved, but in fact "la partita resterà aperta"    In this case, the game is not on. Balls are in play, or a ball is in play, but that's no good either and is too colloquial AE.   I'm sure there's something slangy but not too slangy for this  ...?


The game isn't over yet, All is not done, Who knows what the future holds (for our heroes) ... 😊


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## karakalla

Thank you! I ended up with "But the game is not over ..."    
And I'm pretty happy with it.


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## metazoan

Back to the original question: "It's anyone's game" (based on @Blackman's explanation in post #3).


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## Blackman

I'm not sure of my own interpretation anymore, at least not as I was five years ago. In that specific context sounds ambiguous, and I can see now the point of those saying that the match has started, as in chess playing.


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