# as (when?)



## ironman2012

Hi,

I don’t quite accept such an excuse *as* someone told me frequently that they could not find time to do some reading．

(This comes from an English study book in Chinese. There is the only one sentence without more context. I don't find its origins.)

I want to know if "as"here is a conjunction meaning "when", that is, "as/when someone told me ..., I don’t quite accept such an excuse".

Thanks in advance!


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## PaulQ

No. As  = because.


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## Barque

If the excuse is that the person couldn't find time to read, the sentence is unnaturally worded.

If that's not the interpretation, the sentence sounds as if "as" is used to mean "because".

_I don’t quite accept such an excuse because someone told me frequently that they could not find time to do some reading．
_
Then the excuse is something else, not that the person couldn't find time to read.

_Cross-posted._


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## lingobingo

I disagree with #2.

I don’t quite accept such an excuse as [the one] someone told me frequently – that they could not find time to do some reading．
= I don’t quite accept an excuse such as the one someone told me frequently – that they could not find time to do some reading．


EDIT: I wonder whether frequently was meant to be recently?


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## ironman2012

lingobingo said:


> I don’t quite accept such an excuse as [the one] someone told me frequently – that they could not find time to do some reading．


Why is "the one" omitted? Is it right to omit it?


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## Edinburgher

I agree with LB's interpretation that this seems to be intended to be a "such as" usage.
As Barque says, it's unnaturally worded.  I would not omit "the one", and I'd have changed the word order to "accept an excuse such as the one someone".
I might even be tempted to use "like" instead of "such as".


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## lingobingo

I was simply trying to explain what the sentence means. I agree that it’s written extremely oddly and in my view the phrasing/syntax cannot be justified.

Sometimes sentences in this kind of textbook turn out to have been taken from very old English writings, so their strangeness is due to an archaic style being used. But I don’t really think that’s the case here. I would guess that it just wasn’t written by a native English-speaker.


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## boozer

Ah, I was just going to say that by correcting the punctuation, LB has made the sentence work, in a way, but the initial version did strike me as odd. But saying that is no longer necessary after the latest posts. 

I might add that I am not even sure why the past tense is used in the second part of the sentence. The whole 'someone told me frequently...' part sounds as if the speaker is giving an example by introducing a new fact, unknown to the listener.


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## ironman2012

lingobingo said:


> I was simply trying to explain what the sentence means.


Thank you. At first I just thought there is a rule or something that leads to the omitting.


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## PaulQ

ironman2012 said:


> There is the only one sentence *without more context*.


Therein lieth the problem. Pace LB, it seems that the new punctuation and amendments are a little too liberal.

A: "I didn't have time to do any reading."
B: "Yes you did and (a) I know you were playing golf all day yesterday and (b) that is the fifth time that you have used that excuse."

[A week or so later.]

C: "It's really unfortunate - the research has been delayed. D told me that he had not had time to do any reading."
B: "I don’t quite accept such an excuse *as* someone told me frequently that they could not find time to do some reading" -> Previous experience has cause me to doubt that excuse.


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## taraa

Can I use "when" instead of "as" in the sentence below?
The phone rang Just as I sat down.


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## owlman5

Hi, Taraa.  You can.  It sounds perfectly normal although I prefer "as" in that sentence.


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## taraa

owlman5 said:


> Hi, Taraa.  You can.  It sounds perfectly normal although I prefer "as" in that sentence.


Thank you very much 
Can I ask why you prefer "as", please?


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## owlman5

You're welcome.  Of course you can ask me that question.

"As" is what I customarily hear and use in language about things that happen at the same time:  She pounded on the door just as I was heading up the stairs. But "when" also works fine in this situation.  I suppose my preference is based on how often I hear "as" in similar remarks.


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## taraa

owlman5 said:


> You're welcome.  Of course you can ask me that question.
> 
> "As" is what I customarily hear and use in language about things that happen at the same time:  She pounded on the door just as I was heading up the stairs. But "when" also works fine in this situation.  I suppose my preference is based on how often I hear "as" in similar remarks.


That's very kind of you
Thanks again so much


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## Barque

There's also a very slight difference in meaning depending on which you use, if you're particular. For most people, it wouldn't be significant.

With "as", it means the ringing was more or less simultaneous with the act of sitting down. 
With "when" it means the ringing was just after the speaker sat down.


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## taraa

Barque said:


> There's also a very slight difference in meaning depending on which you use, if you're particular. For most people, it wouldn't be significant.
> 
> With "as", it means the ringing was more or less simultaneous with the act of sitting down.
> With "when" it means the ringing was just after the speaker sat down.


Thank you very much Barque 
But "when" is aslo used for simultaneous, why it mean "after" here, please?


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## owlman5

I've never heard of the distinction that Barque makes between the exact meaning of "as" and "when" in post #16, Taraa.


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## taraa

owlman5 said:


> I've never heard of the distinction that Barque makes between the exact meaning of "as" and "when" in post #16, Taraa.


Thank you very much


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## DonnyB

I don't actually like "when" it that sentence, and I much prefer it with "as".

"The phone rang just when I sat down".  I'm not sure why, but that particular combination of _just_ and _when_ doesn't really work for me. 
"The phone rang when I sat down". That _almost_ suggests that it was the act of my sitting down which made the phone ring.  
I'd be happy to do it as "I'd only just sat down when the phone rang".


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## taraa

DonnyB said:


> I don't actually like "when" it that sentence, and I much prefer it with "as".
> 
> "The phone rang just when I sat down".  I'm not sure why, but that particular combination of _just_ and _when_ doesn't really work for me.
> "The phone rang when I sat down". That _almost_ suggests that it was the act of my sitting down which made the phone ring.
> I'd be happy to do it as "I'd only just sat down when the phone rang".


Do you never use "just when"?


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## lingobingo

“Just when” is widely used, and owes much of its popularity to parodies of the famous tagline of the 1978 film _Jaws 2_: “Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water……”.


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## Barque

taraa said:


> But "when" is aslo used for simultaneous, why it mean "after" here, please?





owlman5 said:


> I've never heard of the distinction that Barque makes between the exact meaning of "as" and "when" in post #16


As I said, the difference wouldn't normally be considered significant. I was just trying to say that if you take the words very literally, that's the difference between them.  


taraa said:


> But "when" is aslo used for simultaneous, why it mean "after" here, please?


"When" here would mean "just after", not merely "after", so it's very close to "simultaneous".


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> “Just when” is widely used, and owes much of its popularity to parodies of the famous tagline of the 1978 film _Jaws 2_: “Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water……”.


Thank you very much lingobingo
Always "just when" means "just after" likw what Barque said?


Barque said:


> As I said, the difference wouldn't normally be considered significant. I was just trying to say that if you take the words very literally, that's the difference between them.
> 
> "When" here would mean "just after", not merely "after", so it's very close to "simultaneous".


Thank you so much


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## lingobingo

taraa said:


> Always "just when" means "just after" likw what Barque said?


No, certainly not always. It’s used in various circumstances, for example where the meaning is not “just as” but “exactly when” or “only when”.

Just when were you thinking of telling me that you’d lost your job?

Do you always take your coffee black? — No, just when I’ve got a hangover!​


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> No, certainly not always. It’s used in various circumstances, for example where the meaning is not “just as” but “exactly when” or “only when”.
> 
> Just when were you thinking of telling me that you’d lost your job?
> 
> Do you always take your coffee black? — No, just when I’ve got a hangover!​


Thank you so much


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## peptidoglycan

I don’t quite accept *such *_an excuse_ *as *someone told me recently _that _they could not find time to do some reading．
*such as*
_an excuse that_
Some alternatives are given below:

1) I don't quite accept an excuse, as someone told me recently, that they could not find time to do some reading．
2) I don't quite accept an excuse, like someone told me recently, that they could not find time to do some reading．(informal)
3) I don't quite accept an excuse, such as the one someone told me recently, that they could not find time to do some reading．


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## taraa

Hi
Can I use "when" in yhe below?
"*As* we walked in the street, we looked into the shop windows."


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## lingobingo

If you say *when* we walked along the street (not in it, or you’d risk getting run over by a car or bus!), it sounds rather like you’re making a comparison between a time when you were doing that and another time when you were doing something else.

*As* is much better. It lays the stress on what the statement is really about — the simultaneity of looking into shop windows while you’re walking along the street.


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> If you say *when* we walked along the street (not in it, or you’d risk getting run over by a car or bus!), it sounds rather like you’re making a comparison between a time when you were doing that and another time when you were doing something else.
> 
> *As* is much better. It lays the stress on what the statement is really about — the simultaneity of looking into shop windows while you’re walking along the street.


Thank you so much
is "in it" wrong? (It's from my Farsi book.)


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## lingobingo

I can’t speak for American English, but in British English if you say “in the street” it sounds like you’re walking along in the middle of the road, among the traffic!


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> I can’t speak for American English, but in British English if you say “in the street” it sounds like you’re walking along in the middle of the road, among the traffic!


Thanks again very much
But I don't understand what difference is between "when" ans "as"


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## lingobingo

*When* can refer either to a period of time during which something happens:
— _When she was a child, she walked three miles a day to and from school_​or to a specific moment in time at which something happens:
_— When the boy threw the ball, the dog ran across the grass to retrieve it_​
*As* tends to refer to two things happening at the same time:
_— The crowd cheered as the parade made its way down the street_​sometimes over a prolonged period:
_ — As they grew older, the couple depended on each other more and more_​


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> *When* can refer either to a period of time during which something happens:
> — _When she was a child, she walked three miles a day to and from school_​or to a specific moment in time at which something happens:
> _— When the boy threw the ball, the dog ran across the grass to retrieve it_​
> *As* tends to refer to two things happening at the same time:
> _— The crowd cheered as the parade made its way down the street_​sometimes over a prolonged period:
> _ — As they grew older, the couple depended on each other more and more_​


Thank you so much


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## taraa

Hi
Wat is the difference between these sentences?
1- A numb feeling came over Mr. Massey *as* he read the telegram.
1- A numb feeling came over Mr. Massey *when* he read the telegram.


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## lingobingo

Again they’re two slightly different ways of saying the same thing, but with the meaning of “as” being closer to while (expressing a duration) than to when. 

… *as* he read the telegram = during the time he was reading the telegram

… *when* he read the telegram = at the time he was reading the telegram​


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> Again they’re two slightly different ways of saying the same thing, but with the meaning of “as” being closer to while (expressing a duration) than to when.
> 
> … *as* he read the telegram = during the time he was reading the telegram
> 
> … *when* he read the telegram = at the time he was reading the telegram​


Thank you so much lingobingo
Can't "when" mean "during the time"?


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## lingobingo

Yes it can.


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> Yes it can.


Thank you so much


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## taraa

Does "as" mean "when" in the sentence below?
"Line 5 initializes cij to 0 *as* we start computing the sum given in equation (4.8), and each iteration of the for loop of lines 6–7 adds in one more term of equation."
From CLRS


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## grassy




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## taraa

Thank you grassy


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## taraa

Why if we use #2 instead of #1 "as" means "because"?Why it can't mean "while"?

1. "as connectivity and sharing increase, security is becoming increasingly important. In current practice, systems provide little protection against eavesdropping or intrusion on communication."

2. "However, *as connectivity and sharing are increasing, security is becoming* increasingly important. In current practice, systems provide little protection against eavesdropping or intrusion on communication." 

Distributed Systems, Tanenbaum


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## lingobingo

Version 2 could be used to mean the same as version 1 – but it would be ambiguous, so it’s unlikely that anyone would use the progressive.


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> Version 2 could be used to mean the same as version 1 – but it would be ambiguous, so it’s unlikely that anyone would use the progressive.


Thanks a lot lingobingo 
Sorry but I can't understand what makes #2 ambiguous. Can you please explain?


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## lingobingo

The *as* comes across as meaning *because* — as you yourself have suggested. I can’t explain why, exactly. But it does, when you add the progressive aspect to the verb.


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## taraa

lingobingo said:


> The *as* comes across as meaning *because* — as you yourself have suggested. I can’t explain why, exactly. But it does, when you add the progressive aspect to the verb.


Thanks a lot


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