# I have / I've got



## xoxo

What's the difference between these sentences? :
I have brown eyes
I've got brown eyes

I'm a Spanish speaker....


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## HB1

"I've" is just a shortned version of "I have" they mean the same.


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## Junk

HB1 said:


> "I've" is just a shortned version of "I have" they mean the same.


But the question is the difference between "I have" and "I have *got*".

There is no difference in meaning, but "I've got" sounds a lot less formal to me.


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## UUBiker

In written English, I'd venture to say, "I have brown eyes" is more common.  In spoken English, I've got brown eyes," seems more natural to me.  "I have got brown eyes" seems completely unnatural, spoken or written.  I've got grey-green eyes, for the record (yes, I know Americans are supposed to spell this "gray," but I've never cared for that spelling, and it seems particularly peculiar before green).


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## UUBiker

Of course, there is the possibility of saying "I got my mother's blue eyes," which means something different.


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## mora

Hola

In written English, we usually write 'I have brown eyes'. In spoken English, we say 'I've brown eyes' or 'I've got brown eyes'. 'Got' is not required, but we say it anyway. 
to have = tener 
to have got = tener

Mora


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## JB

xoxo said:


> What's the difference between these sentences? :
> I have brown eyes
> I've got brown eyes
> 
> I'm a Spanish speaker....


 
En este contexto, significan exactamente lo mismo.  "have got" es más común en Inglaterra.


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## paula_88

Ya que estoy también pregunto jeje... cuál es la diferencia entre "I've got" y "I got", puede suprimirse el "have"?


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## Yankee Chick

Hello. The difference between I have brown eyes and I've got brown eyes it that I have brown eyes is more formal and with the second sentance I've got brown eyes it that I've is a contraction of I have and got and have is the same thing so in this sentence the emphisis of having brown eyes is used twice so "I have brown eyes" is the better phrase to use. I hope this works for you


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## Yankee Chick

La deferencia entre I've got y I got es que I've got en cuando tienes algo personal que significa "Yo tengo pelo largo." y I got es cuando tienes algo o carateristica de una otra persona que significa "Yo tengo la nariz de mi padre." Yo soy una estudente de espanol y ahora mismo estoy apendiendo esta langua. Es uno de la mejor expirencias que tengo. Espero que me ayudes.


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## paula_88

So, is there a difference between "I've got a sister" and "I got a sister"? Or the second one is wrongly used??


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## mora

Hello

I've got a sister = tengo una hermana
I got a sister = recibí una hermana

mora


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## caoim

paula_88 said:


> So, is there a difference between "I've got a sister" and "I got a sister"? Or the second one is wrongly used??


Hola: Como han dicho arriba, "I've got a sister" es más informal que "I have a sister", pero "I got a sister", a pesar de que sea algo que se oye a menudo en el habla coloquial, simplemente no es gramaticalmente correcto, y no se recomienda que se diga así (con el sentido de "Tengo una hermana").
Saludos.


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## Yankee Chick

Actually in that case the sentences mean the same.


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## UUBiker

Now I can hear it in British English, I have got a sister ... Okay.  

I got a sister/I've got a sister/I have got a sister(chiefly British)/I have a sister.  These are increasing grades of formality for me, but they don't "mean" anything different.  Do they mean anything differently to anyone else?

I will point out these pairs of contrasting sentences:  "I'm from LA."  "Oh really, I got a sister in Los Angeles (but not in New York)," but "I have a sister (that is, I don't have any brothers)," in response to the question "Do you have any brothers or sisters?"  Does anyone else "feel" that difference other than me?


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## mazbook

"got" en preterito (y "get" en otro tiempos) tiene el significado "recibir", "conseguir" o "traer" las mayorias veces.  No está "tener".  
"have got"/" (I,you,we,they)'ve got" o " (he,she,it)'s got"  es presente tiempo y el significado es "tener".

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## caoim

UUBiker said:


> I got a sister/I've got a sister/I have got a sister(chiefly British)/I have a sister. These are increasing grades of formality for me, but they don't "mean" anything different. *Do they mean anything differently to anyone else?*


For me, no... but "I got a sister" doesn't sound good to me, and I don't think it's grammatically correct.


UUBiker said:


> I will point out these pairs of contrasting sentences: "I'm from LA." "Oh really, I got a sister in Los Angeles (but not in New York)," but "I have a sister (that is, I don't have any brothers)," in response to the question "Do you have any brothers or sisters?" Does anyone else "feel" that difference other than me?


Personally, I don't feel that difference, I just feel that "I got" (instead of "I've got", doesn't sound good... although it's perfectly understandable).


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## termes

XOXO: No hay diferencia en absoluto. I have, más bien se usa en inglés americano, mientras que I´ve got se usa más en inglés británico.
A pesar de ello puedes ver a ambas en ambos idiomas.


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## Busierbruce

Although I've got is in regular use; I have got is considered better (educated) English by some academics!


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## caballosgirl

caoim said:


> For me, no... but "I got a sister" doesn't sound good to me, and I don't think it's grammatically correct.
> 
> Personally, I don't feel that difference, I just feel that "I got" (instead of "I've got", doesn't sound good... although it's perfectly understandable).



I'm in complete agreement with you.  It sounds absolutely horrendous to me, in fact.  I don't think it's grammatically correct either.  Why: If "I got" means the same (or is intended to mean the same) as "I have," then the fact that I got is in the past, does not make any sense and doesn't mean the same.  I

This is not a dialectical difference in English!  I got a sister sounds bad in the US, too!  Yesterday I got a horse.  Yesterday my sister was born/I received a sister/something other than I got a sister, please!

saludos


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## caballosgirl

Busierbruce said:


> Although I've got is in regular use; I have got is considered better (educated) English by some academics!



well, it'd be.  There isn't an apostrophe substituting a letter.  You wouldn't write "I've got" in an essay, you'd write, "I have got."  No contractions allowed in formal writing!!! (a contraction's something like: It's, I'm, I've, what's, etc, etc)

Now my post in formal writing:
Well, it would be.  There is not an apostrophe substituting a letter. You would not write, "I have got(with an apostrophe substituting for the h and a)" in an essay; you would write, "I have got." No contractions allowed in formal writing!!! (a contraction is something like: It is, I am, I have, what is, etc, etc with an apostrophe substituting the letter that is usually taken out in informal writing).


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## mazbook

Hola caballosgirl:

You're correct about, "I've got...." being informal and not used in formal writing.  BUT the *correct* way of writing it, formally OR informally, is NOT "I have got....", that's terrible English.  It should be, "I have....".  The "got" is an incorrect redundancy and accentuates the incorrectness of "I've got....".

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## mariente

xoxo said:


> What's the difference between these sentences? :
> I have brown eyes
> I've got brown eyes
> 
> I'm a Spanish speaker....


no diference in meaning
Pero quiero hacer una aclaración: suponete que querés preguntar: "¿tienes algo para comer? no se dice: "have you have" sino have you got asomething to eat?
O tambien: no vas a usar i havent have, x ejemplo I havent got any money y no I havent have any money


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## caballosgirl

mariente said:


> no diference in meaning
> Pero quiero hacer una aclaración: suponete que querés preguntar: "¿tienes algo para comer? no se dice: "have you have" sino have you got anything to eat?
> O tambien: no vas a usar i havent have, x ejemplo I haven't got any money y no I havent have any money



Do you have anything to eat?  

I don't have any money. 

aaah entiendo tu duda!  siempre es: (una forma de "have" + una forma de "get")
have y get son verbos diferentes como tener y obtener/conseguir/....

puedes decir (pero es muuuy raro): Have you obtained something to eat? o I haven't obtained the acetone for the experiment.....
Have you got something to eat? I haven't got the acetone for the experiment.

saludos


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## mariente

caballosgirl said:


> Do you have anything to eat?
> 
> I don't have any money.
> 
> aaah entiendo tu duda!  siempre es: (una forma de "have" + una forma de "get")
> have y get son verbos diferentes como tener y obtener/conseguir/....
> 
> puedes decir (pero es muuuy raro): Have you obtained something to eat? o I haven't obtained the acetone for the experiment.....
> Have you got something to eat? I haven't got the acetone for the experiment.
> 
> saludos



What you corrected as wrong, well i said in spanish that it was wrong, and what you corrected as right, i said in spanish that it was right. So you didnt get what i was saying in spanish, anyway the spanish speaker understands.
me surgió una duda : no es have you got something to eat? havce you got anything esta bien = aunque no sea negative?


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## UUBiker

If you Google the phrase "I got a wife," in quotations, you come up with 29,300 hits, including song lyrics ("I got a wife," by Graham Nash), "I got a wife and kids," fiction by Jim Loy, a rap song "And you know I got a wife," by Li'l Jon and the Eastside Boyz.  It's also a direct quotation, "I got a wife," from the 1995 movie "Heat."

That makes me think it occurs fairly frequently in informal spoken American English.

Horrendous, you say?  Stilted, if you write anything else for real speakers of American English (unless they happen to be high-school grammar teachers or, worse, language geeks).


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## mariente

UUBiker said:


> If you Google the phrase "I got a wife," in quotations, you come up with 29,300 hits, including song lyrics ("I got a wife," by Graham Nash), "I got a wife and kids," fiction by Jim Loy, a rap song "And you know I got a wife," by Li'l Jon and the Eastside Boyz.  It's also a direct quotation, "I got a wife," from the 1995 movie "Heat."
> 
> That makes me think it occurs fairly frequently in informal spoken American English.
> 
> Horrendous, you say?  Stilted, if you write anything else for real speakers of American English (unless they happen to be high-school grammar teachers or, worse, language geeks).


But its very slang and its gramatically incorrect


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## mazbook

UUBiker said:


> If you Google the phrase "I got a wife," in quotations, you come up with 29,300 hits, including song lyrics ("I got a wife," by Graham Nash), "I got a wife and kids," fiction by Jim Loy, a rap song "And you know I got a wife," by Li'l Jon and the Eastside Boyz.  It's also a direct quotation, "I got a wife," from the 1995 movie "Heat."
> 
> That makes me think it occurs fairly frequently in informal spoken American English.
> 
> Horrendous, you say?  Stilted, if you write anything else for real speakers of American English (unless they happen to be high-school grammar teachers or, worse, language geeks).


Actually, most of your examples are spoken dialogue, and it's NOT "I got a...", it's "I gotta...".  It's very much *spoken (or 'chat') *slang, and it's very incorrect English.

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## ps139

mazbook said:


> Hola caballosgirl:
> 
> You're correct about, "I've got...." being informal and not used in formal writing.  BUT the *correct* way of writing it, formally OR informally, is NOT "I have got....", that's terrible English.  It should be, "I have....".  The "got" is an incorrect redundancy and accentuates the incorrectness of "I've got....".
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán


Estoy de acuerdo... completely!


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## ps139

mazbook said:


> Actually, most of your examples are spoken dialogue, and it's NOT "I got a...", it's "I gotta...".  It's very much *spoken (or 'chat') *slang, and it's very incorrect English.
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán


I agreed with you on your previous post but I don't understand you here.



			
				UUBiker said:
			
		

> If you Google the phrase "*I got a wife*," in quotations, you come up with 29,300 hits, including song lyrics ("*I got a wife*," by Graham Nash), "*I got a wife and kids*," fiction by Jim Loy, a rap song "*And you know I got a wife*," by Li'l Jon and the Eastside Boyz. It's also a direct quotation, "*I got a wife*," from the 1995 movie "Heat."



This is not "gotta." 

"Gotta" = "got to," an obligation, as in "to have to" (tener que). And so that would make the above "I got to a wife" "I got to a wife and kids" - no, that makes no sense.

Those examples are definitely "I got a..." meaning possession.

I say "I got this or that" all the time. But I'd never write it in anything official or important, and I'd shoot myself if I said it during an interview.


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## xoxo

THANKS A LOT FOR ALL YOUR INPUTS! 
This was a question I've had for a long time.


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## Jfarinon

I've got or I have got is Bristish English. It is considered correct and taught in schools.


"I have got three brothers"

As opposed to the American English "I have three brothers"

I know this because I am an American who taught English in Spain and at first I thought it was incorrect but it was in all the books and teaching materials.


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## caballosgirl

mazbook said:


> Hola caballosgirl:
> 
> You're correct about, "I've got...." being informal and not used in formal writing.  BUT the *correct* way of writing it, formally OR informally, is NOT "I have got....", that's terrible English. It should be, "I have....". The "got" is an incorrect redundancy and accentuates the incorrectness of "I've got....".
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán



how true!!!! just I have, though and NOT I got!  thanks  I over-think it sometimes I guess.  

although as you say......I've a horse doesn't sound good. I've got a horse sounds better. But it's technically more correct then to say I've a horse. But you can say I have obtained grammatical enlightenment. Yet that's what "get" means......I have obtained grammatical enlightenment sounds perfectly fine to me..........

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. let me check a website on this.
 possession: have got is acceptable, action/experience: have got is bad and not acceptable

therefore got is acceptable if it is possessive. I have can be possessive in itself, yes. To get/got is possessive, BUT sounds bad by itself. To get is more active. Lets say I got a cold from someone else. Now I've got a cold. I have got a cold. Or Now I have a cold. both work. both are fine. 

Let me tell you this: If you hear someone say, "I got a(not gotta because that's like I gotta go or I gotta do this or that, not possessive) wife," they do not sound intelligent. They will be judged as un-intelligent by educated people. Even if it's used informally in songs or what-not, it is not proper grammar. It is not heard in some dialects of English, too. Therefore, if you say it, you could sound like "A Hill-Billy" which isn't a good thing. 

saludos


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## mazbook

Hola ps139:

That's why "gotta" is bad English.  I can mean either "I got to+verb...", i.e. "I must+verb..." or "I have to+verb..." OR it can mean "I got a+noun" or "I have a+noun". I've heard both from different people.  BUT you may be right, as I don't actually hear a lot of spoken English nowadays.

Regardless, "I got a..." is a bad substitute for "I have a...", as "got", when used as a stand-alone verb, is in the past tense, so it really *can't *have the  same meaning as "have" in the present tense.  "I got a horse." means either "I received a horse." or "I went out and bought a horse." or even "I stole a horse.", but it shouldn't and doesn't mean "I have a horse."

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## Jfarinon

Any comentarios about it being CORRECT ENGLISH in British English to say "I've got three brothers (etc)"??

Bueno, supongo que no... 

Could it be because there aren't any people form that side of the world awake?


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## caballosgirl

Jfarinon said:


> Any comentarios about it being CORRECT ENGLISH in British English to say "I've got three brothers (etc)"??
> 
> Bueno, supongo que no...
> 
> Could it be because there aren't any people form that side of the world awake?


seriously!

I totally agree.  The website I found was in BRITISH ENGLISH and it said it was CORRECT ENGLISH.  

Us americans have had to say it for them


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## UUBiker

You can't use "logic" to decide what's grammatical, I'm afraid.  Languages aren't logical.  The argument that "got" is "redundant" is silly.  Every language is full of redundancies.  There's nothing "ungrammatical" about the phrase "I've got three brothers" in British or American English, and anyone who says otherwise is thinking about it way too much (and needs to read more).  It is true that in formal, written English, apostrophes are avoided, so in that sense, it is less formal than other forms.

But here's the thing:  People make more money from rap songs than they do office memoranda, last I checked.  So I'd keep that in mind.


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## caballosgirl

They do make more money.  But still, rap songs aren't great ways to learn correct grammar.  Unless you want to sound....."gangsta." In any profession, they aren't gonna accept,"fuh shizzle, my nizzle look at that hexane boooond!"

Actually, I don't think I've got is redundant. Yes languages are redundant, but that is beside the point.  

Of course you can use logic, logic can be applied to everything.  You just have to learn the system of the language.  You've got to learn the system!! There I said it!  I use it.  I've got to go to the grocery store today, it's a must.  Ok off on a tangent. back on track.  Logic.  Have and Got are different verbs, therefore: NO REDUNDANCY!  Have functions differently when placed with Got! what a miracle logic is.  

I'm not a language nerd.  I personally hated my English classes.   But I'm picky with my grammar.  My friend was a language nerd and grammar nazi, maybe she rubbed off on me.  I'm a perfectionist with grammar.  It's sad.  There are apparently a lot of people like that at the university I'm attending. 

saludos


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## ps139

mazbook said:


> Hola ps139:
> 
> That's why "gotta" is bad English.  I can mean either "I got to+verb...", i.e. "I must+verb..." or "I have to+verb..." OR it can mean "I got a+noun" or "I have a+noun". I've heard both from different people.  BUT you may be right, as I don't actually hear a lot of spoken English nowadays.



I think the difference here, is that, let's say we had to transcribe speech.

For the expression that means "I have to" I would write it as "gotta"

For the expression that means "I have a " I would write it as "got a" and never as "gotta."

That is where our miscommunication is happening... because in essence I think we agree with each other.



> Regardless, "I got a..." is a bad substitute for "I have a...", as "got", when used as a stand-alone verb, is in the past tense, so it really *can't *have the  same meaning as "have" in the present tense.  "I got a horse." means either "I received a horse." or "I went out and bought a horse." or even "I stole a horse.", but it shouldn't and doesn't mean "I have a horse."


Well, here I disagree. You are correct that "got" is so ambiguous.. it can be the result of a gift, theft, purchase, etc. But my disagreement is because around me, by me, by my friends etc it is used in the *present* as well as the *past *tense. So, in that sense, it is synonymous with both "I have" and "I obtained." Maybe it is a regional thing, I don't know, never thought about it much.

Saludos desde New York.


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## ps139

UUBiker said:


> You can't use "logic" to decide what's grammatical, I'm afraid.  Languages aren't logical.  The argument that "got" is "redundant" is silly.  Every language is full of redundancies.  There's nothing "ungrammatical" about the phrase "I've got three brothers" in British or American English, and anyone who says otherwise is thinking about it way too much (and needs to read more).  It is true that in formal, written English, apostrophes are avoided, so in that sense, it is less formal than other forms.
> 
> But here's the thing:  People make more money from rap songs than they do office memoranda, last I checked.  So I'd keep that in mind.


Well,... languages are logical in the sense that they are systematic, follow ordered rules, and that there is a *universal* underlying system of "_do_s and _don't_s" which is behind every single language.

Chomsky calls this "Universal Grammar," and where languages or dialects or varieties differ is whether a certain parameter is turned "off" or "on" in the given speech community. Whether or not one of these "settings" is violated will determine the grammaticality of the sentence. This science is called Syntax, and specifically, part of "Government and Binding Theory." I'm studying it now and it is incredibly boring and interesting at the same time.


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## mhp

mazbook said:


> Hola caballosgirl:
> 
> You're correct about, "I've got...." being informal and not used in formal writing.  BUT the *correct* way of writing it, formally OR informally, is NOT "I have got....", that's terrible English.  It should be, "I have....".  The "got" is an incorrect redundancy and accentuates the incorrectness of "I've got....".
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán



 I agree that it is *colloquial*, but I’m not sure what you mean by “correct” or "incorrect".

I’ve got means I have and that’s correct English.



> Main Entry: *get*
> *10 a* *: HAVE* -- used in the present perfect tense form with present meaning <*I've got no money*>


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## caballosgirl

as far as using got in the present and past tense, yeah we use it here, too. I'm going to get something. "Get" is used less often I think. I don't really think about it. Oh! I know what i was going to write in the first place! I use got when talking about what I grade I "got" on a quiz or test or whatever. That's another use. 

saludos


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## caballosgirl

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/grammar/archive/have_got.html

For everyone's sanity on is it correct or not correct to say "Have got" That is the website.  Let me type it out a twice more so people see the article.

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/grammar/archive/have_got.html

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/grammar/archive/have_got.html

and yes, I believe it is used in the present perfect tense with got.  like he tenido....

saludos


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## UUBiker

You're right, languages are logical in that sense (or, more to the point "language" is logical in that sense).  Prescriptive grammar, however, is not necessary logical-- that is, what is "correct" in any particular language is not a matter of logic, is merely what someone-- or some institution-- says is correct (explicitly or implicitly).  That cannot be worked out as a matter of logic, it can only be learned by rote.


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## caballosgirl

very true, it's what "came with the language" so to speak.  It isn't always "logical" but there is a general pattern to it.  Say a Subject-verb-object type of sentence (which is most common).  But then of course languages like Japanese have a S-O-V pattern(I think).  I mean, there's no obvious reason why sentences have certain structures in certain languages.  Is SVO really a logical sentence structure?  So yeah, I see where you're coming from and I agree 
buenas noches


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## mariente

people so, have you got anything to eat and have you got something to eat are both correct, right?
I am doubting because  of the usage of anything which is generally with negatives


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## UUBiker

they're both grammatical sentences, but they mean (at least moderately) different things.


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## JB

to Mariente, re anything/something, I suggest you search the forum, and then perhaps start a new and different thread, as this one is on have got vs. got, and is already up to 40 posts.

to ps139, let me see if I can simply summarize an answer to your original question, leaving out most of the complications:

Tengo $5 en mi cartera = *I have $5 in my wallet* = *I have got $5 in my wallet*.  Los dos son correctos, con "have got" más común en Inglaterra.

Tengo $5 en mi cartera* = I got $5 in my wallet* -- is *not* "standard" "proper" English, but common in speech, and of course in country western songs and RAP music, and such.  Without getting into issues of how you define right vs. wrong in terms of language, one can say that it is not generally considered "standard English" and you do not want to say *I got* if you are translating something in writing (unless there is a special reason to do so; for example, if you were translating street Spanish dialogue for a film to be dubbed or subtitled, and deliberatelyi wanted to convey the less educated quality of the language.)  Basically, saying *I got it* is a lazy way of saying *I've got it*, leaving out the "v" sound, comparable to saying *pa'arriba, pa'dentro*, vs. *para arriba,* *para adentro.*

Lastly, *I got* *is correct* as past tense.  *I got a new car for Christmas* = I received, or I was given, or I obtained.


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## caballosgirl

mariente said:


> people so, have you got anything to eat and have you got something to eat are both correct, right?
> I am doubting because  of the usage of anything which is generally with negatives



yeah, they're both correct.  
more commonly said:
Do you have anything to eat? Yeah, I've got.... 
Do you have something to eat? Yeah, I've got.... 

saludos


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## UUBiker

jbruceismay said:


> Tengo $5 en mi cartera = *I have $5 in my wallet* = *I have got $5 in my wallet*. Los dos son correctos, con "have got" más común en Inglaterra.
> 
> Tengo $5 en mi cartera* = I got $5 in my wallet* -- is *not* "standard" "proper" English, but common in speech, and of course in country western songs and RAP music, and such.


 
Exactamente. I would qualify "I got five bucks in my wallet" as simply "informal" English. It's hardly "uneducated" English; it doesn't rate with "I ain't got but five bucks in my dang wallet," which is more along the lines of what a country singer might sing.  Of course, it's worth pointing out how informal English got to where it did.  If you "got" a new car for Christmas, the fact that you "got" it in the past doesn't undo your present possession of it.  I got a new car (and, the unstated idea is, I still have it).  Eventually, "I got a new car" I suspect just came to mean "I have a new car" (clearly as a people we're more focused on getting than on having).


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## caballosgirl

UUBiker said:


> Exactamente. I would qualify "I got five bucks in my wallet" as simply "informal" English. It's hardly "uneducated" English; it doesn't rate with "I ain't got but five bucks in my dang wallet," which is more along the lines of what a country singer might sing.



I totally agree with you both.


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## ps139

jbruceismay said:


> to ps139, let me see if I can simply summarize an answer to your original question, leaving out most of the complications:
> 
> Tengo $5 en mi cartera = *I have $5 in my wallet* = *I have got $5 in my wallet*.  Los dos son correctos, con "have got" más común en Inglaterra.
> 
> Tengo $5 en mi cartera* = I got $5 in my wallet* -- is *not* "standard" "proper" English, but common in speech, and of course in country western songs and RAP music, and such.  Without getting into issues of how you define right vs. wrong in terms of language, one can say that it is not generally considered "standard English" and you do not want to say *I got* if you are translating something in writing (unless there is a special reason to do so; for example, if you were translating street Spanish dialogue for a film to be dubbed or subtitled, and deliberatelyi wanted to convey the less educated quality of the language.)  Basically, saying *I got it* is a lazy way of saying *I've got it*, leaving out the "v" sound, comparable to saying *pa'arriba, pa'dentro*, vs. *para arriba,* *para adentro.*
> 
> Lastly, *I got* *is correct* as past tense.  *I got a new car for Christmas* = I received, or I was given, or I obtained.


Very good points, I agree.

Except with the uneducated thing... I'm going for my master's in linguistics and I say "I got" all the time.  (I know you did not mean it in a bad way... these topics are so nitpicky).

Regarding my earlier posts, I had NO IDEA that in England, "I have got" (without a "to" following) is correct, or even standard. I'd never heard it in my life.


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## ps139

UUBiker said:


> You're right, languages are logical in that sense (or, more to the point "language" is logical in that sense).  Prescriptive grammar, however, is not necessary logical-- that is, what is "correct" in any particular language is not a matter of logic, is merely what someone-- or some institution-- says is correct (explicitly or implicitly).  That cannot be worked out as a matter of logic, it can only be learned by rote.


Actually, I do think prescriptive grammar is a logical way to define what is acceptable and what is not. However, as it is prescriptive, and not descriptive, it is always dated. Grammar books that kids use in school contain the same things they did 50 years ago. Languages, however, change.

I really believe that "grammaticality" is ultimately defined on the individual level. Members of a certain sociolinguistic group might ALL agree on 99.9% of things being grammatical. But that .001% of contention... that is how new structures arise and languages evolve. 

For instance... just think of how Latin evolved into the Romance languages. I am sure that at the "intermediate" stages of this evolution... Cicero would have vomited had he heard some of the speech... yet each of the Romance languages has developed a high class of speech and literature.

Where is the cutoff point? What spurs these changes? It must be at the level of the individual. If the individual has some sort of influence, others may unconsciously pick up a variation that he or she uses. And it spreads. This is my own little theory of language change... I've thought about this a lot and I believe that you can only be 100% accurate in describing language trends/rules, etc if you describe it at the individual level. Problem is, no one has the time or money to study this sufficiently.


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## mazbook

Two VERY good posts, ps139.  I particulary like:





> Regarding my earlier posts, I had NO IDEA that in England, "I have got" (without a "to" following) is correct, or even standard. I'd never heard it in my life.


Even though I learned my grammar in the western U.S.  nearly fifty years before you did (in the eastern U.S.), I must agree 100% with this statement.

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## mariente

caballosgirl said:


> yeah, they're both correct.
> more commonly said:
> Do you have anything to eat? Yeah, I've got....
> Do you have something to eat? Yeah, I've got....
> 
> saludos


Thanx so much 4 for you help


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