# memento, keepsake, souvenir,remembrance



## celine713

Hi, everyone, please have a look at this: 

*momento, keepsake, souvenir,remembrance.*

I think they are interchageable, but *memento* doesnot fit in this case, right?


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## panjandrum

Why not?
Please explain.


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## ceann-feachd

They're all pretty much the same, except for remembrance. Remembrance is the action of remembering. It doesn't really have the connotation of an item taken to remember an occasion.

Why don't you post an example sentence to give us an idea of what you are trying to convey?


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## keepsakes

A keepsake is something that is usually passed down from generation to generation.
A memento is like a keepsake, it's just used in older writing.
A souvenir is something to remember a place with, for example if you visit Canada you could get a t-shirt with a maple leaf on it as a souvenir.

(and keepsake doesn't have a plural, don't trust my username =P)


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## celine713

Hi, I was told that" memento" can refer to petty belongings of the dead people, is that right?


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## celine713

keepsakes said:


> A keepsake is something that is usually passed down from generation to generation.
> A memento is like a keepsake, it's just used in older writing.
> A souvenir is something to remember a place with, for example if you visit Canada you could get a t-shirt with a maple leaf on it as a souvenir.
> 
> (and keepsake doesn't have a plural, don't trust my username =P)


Hehe, your username is so misleading ,thanks!


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## panjandrum

celine713 said:


> Hi, I was told that" memento" can refer to petty belongings of the dead people, is that right?


Ah, thanks Celine.  I don't think I have ever heard of that.  A memento, to me, is just like a keepsake or souvenir.

Remembrance (noun) has many definitions.  These include:


> An article serving to remind one person of another; a keepsake, souvenir; a token.


 I really would not like to say that any one of those on the list is wrong.


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## celine713

ceann-feachd said:


> They're all pretty much the same, except for remembrance. Remembrance is the action of remembering. It doesn't really have the connotation of an item taken to remember an occasion.
> 
> Why don't you post an example sentence to give us an idea of what you are trying to convey?


 
Hi, *remembrance* can be an item I am sure!


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## celine713

Thank you Panjandrum!


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## panjandrum

keepsakes said:


> [...] (and keepsake doesn't have a plural, don't trust my username =P)


You surprise me. I can't think of any reason why keepsake should not have keepsakes as a completely natural plural.

What would you suggest I have if I have more than one keepsake?

Or indeed, are you suggesting that *about 22,400,000 for keepsakes* are all wrong?


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## caballoschica

All of these are similar.  

I think a keepsake and a memento are pretty much the same thing.  A memento and a keepsake seem to have a "priceless" value to their holders.   They could be something from the dead.  I would also put remembrance in that category.  Something a little more special than other items.  I don't use memento when talking about souvenirs.   Souvenirs  I use to describe "cheap little things"  I get at places.  Like if I go to Florida and I get a shell at a store that you can't find in Ohio. That's a souvenir, so is a postcard, a t-shirt, etc, etc. I most often use memento and souvenir.  Memento for something from the dead. Keepsake, as a family heirloom, which, really is about the same thing.  I use souvenirs when traveling.  Souvenir shopping is fun!


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## celine713

First,maybe, *Keepsakes* was suggesting the original spelling, wasn't he, Panj?

Then, Caballoschica, your explanation is simply nourishing and fun!


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## hly2004

From the dictionary, it says:

keepsake 

Origin:"Because you " keep" it for the " sake" of (that is, to be reminded of) the person who gave it to you"


souvernior

an object that you buy or keep to remind yourself of a special occasion or a place you have visited


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## Dimcl

keepsakes said:


> (and keepsake doesn't have a plural, don't trust my username =P)


 
Did I miss something?  If you give me a keepsake and Panj gives me a keepsake, what do I call the two ?????? that I've been given to remember you both by?


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## English nerd

So what would you use?
"Momento" or "Keepsake"?(as something kept to remember the dead)

And can it be : "token(token of remembrance)"??


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## Barque

English nerd said:


> So what would you use?
> "Momento" or "Keepsake"?(as something kept to remember the dead)


You haven't given us a sentence or context.

It's _m*e*mento_, not _m*o*mento_.



English nerd said:


> And can it be : "token(token of remembrance)"??


What can be "token(token of remembrance)"? There's no sentence or context to tell us.


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## English nerd

It's  the smae context as in the O.P.'s post.

It is : Keeping something to remember someone after they are dead.

It is a keepsake. 
It is a memento. 
It is a token of remembrance. 

I guess "keepsake" sounds natural. 

And what about:memento/token?


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## Barque

English nerd said:


> It's the smae context as in the O.P.'s post.


The OP didn't provide any context. She just happened to refer to dead people's belongings while talking about a meaning of "memento" she'd heard.



English nerd said:


> It is : Keeping something to remember someone after they are dead.
> It is a keepsake.
> It is a memento.
> It is a token of remembrance.


I think "memento" is the only appropriate word here. I wouldn't use "keepsake" to refer to something kept in memory of a dead person. A "token of remembrance" sounds odd in this context to me.


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## English nerd

But the use of "memento " has gone down during the recent years.


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## Barque

I don't know that it has. Even if it has, what's your point?


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## PaulQ

All mean about the same thing but have different origins
*momento, *-> Latin, originally a reference to Bibvle verses for the living and the dead*
keepsake, *-> Old-English, roughly - something to keep (associated with a cause or reason)*
souvenir, *-> French -> something held in the memory*
remembrance *-> Middle English -> a cause for remembering*.
*
Usually, such words can be expected to have different nuances or be used in different contexts - however, the four are not frequently used and seem to have developed alongside each other on a basis of personal choice such that there is not a lot of difference in their use. Perhaps "souvenir" stands out as being associated with tacky objects from tourist traps, thus lessening its use for more serious matters.

Keepsake is interesting: despite its purely OE origins, it is first recorded in writing in 1790


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## zaffy

Say there is some special occassion, some people have gathered and we want to take a picture so as to perpetuate it. Can I say this?

"Let's take a picture/keepsake as a momento in the future"


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## PaulQ

No.
1. The addition of "in the future" does not seem to refer to anything and is therefore wrong.
2. You cannot *take *a keepsake in the same way that you can *take *a picture.

From the OED:

*memento*

3. A reminder of a past event or condition, of an absent person, or of something that once existed; (now chiefly) an object kept in memory of some person or event.

1988 B. Chatwin Utz 122 _The apartment was crammed with mementos of an operatic career._


*keepsake:*

a. Anything kept, or given to be kept, for the sake of, or in remembrance of, the giver.

1861 Sat. Rev. 7 Dec. 587 _She pulls out a pair of scissors, and cuts out a patch [and gives it to him] as a keepsake._


*souvenir.*
2.a. Something that is given or kept as a reminder of a place, person, event, etc.; a memento, a keepsake;* spec. a (typically small and inexpensive) item designed for sale to tourists and having some association with the place visited. (Now the usual sense.)*

2008 J. Oakes Algeria (Bradt Travel Guides) 50 _Stalls..full of cheap, tacky souvenirs such as shells with ‘Algeria’ written on them or pictures of camels._

*Remembrance *(n. countable and uncountable):

This has several meanings and you should consult a good dictionary to discover what they are and how the word is used.


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## zaffy

This man on left was given a clock as a gift. The giver said "Frank, as a memento, we present you with this appreciation clock".
Would 'keepsake' or 'souvenir' work?


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## PaulQ

Of course, we would want to know why he was being given the clock but, if you read the definitions above, you should be able to answer the question yourself.


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## zaffy

So to me,  all three fit. Do they? Or maybe except for  'souvenir' as it is not a tourism context.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> So to me, all three fit.


You need to re-read them...

Is the clock a cheap thing brought from a tourist shop? Is it given to him so that he will remember the man that gave it to him? Or is it something else?


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## zaffy

So only 'memento' and 'keepsake' fit, right?


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## PaulQ

Why would "keepsake" fit? Are you suggesting that the public presentation was made so that the recipient would remember the donor?


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> Why would "keepsake" fit? Are you suggesting that the public presentation was made so that the recipient would remember the donor?



Ok, I got it.

Now, does a souvenir need to be bought? Can it be found? Say I'm walking along a beach on holiday and I find a nice shell; and I say to my wife. "Look, what a nice shell. I'll keep it as a souvenir." Or do I need to use 'memento' because it was not bought?

In another scenario, I give the shell to my wife and she says to me
-"Thanks, I'll keep it as a souvenir/memento/keepsake".  - Can I use all of them? 'Souvenir' because it is holiday, 'memento' to remember the moment, and 'keepsake' to remember the giver.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> Now, does a souvenir need to be bought?


No.


zaffy said:


> In another scenario, I give the shell to my wife and she says to me
> -"Thanks, I'll keep it as a souvenir/memento/keepsake".


1. Was your wife with you when you found the shell?

2. "Thanks, I'll keep it as a keepsake" (a) sounds strange because of the repetition of "keep" and (b). is inappropriate unless she is expecting you to die or leave for a very long time.


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> 1. Was your wife with you when you found the shell?
> 
> 2. "Thanks, I'll keep it as a keepsake". is inappropriate unless she is expecting you to die or leave for a very long time.



1. Say she was with me
2. Why? I saw a native talk about brides and bridegrooms giving keepsakes to the guests at wedding receptions. I believe they are not expected to die or leave for a long time.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> 1. Say she was with me


She is most likely to say "I'll keep it as a souvenir [of the time we were at <insert the place where it was found>]"

2. I would find "keepsake" to be unusual in that context.


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> 2. I would find "keepsake" to be unusual in that context.



You said a "keepsake" is given so as to remember the giver rather than the event and dictionaries say the same thing. Yet I've found numerous examples which deny this definition, so looks like 'keepsake' and 'memento' are interchangeable for some natives.  See the examples:

1. "Any rocks you gather can be 3D printed as a keepsake" - said a lady explaining some virtual game.




2. "Most of the guests will receive a keepsake (...) This might just a small gift *to remind you of that special moment*" 




3. "Each of you has received a palmetto rose as a keepsake *from this event*"





So in those example, the keepsakes are to remind the people of the moments/events, not the givers.


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## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> You said a "keepsake" is given so as to remember the giver rather than the event and dictionaries say the same thing. Yet I've found numerous examples which deny this definition, so looks like 'keepsake' and 'memento' are *interchangeable for some natives.*  See the examples:


This is not unusual - for some people to think differently than others on the appropriate usage or nuance of English words. Paul already explained;  sometimes your questions (or what look like rebittals) seem to imply that you think all English speakers will have exactly the same answers to questions about the language and its words.


PaulQ said:


> All mean about the same thing but have different origins
> ...
> Usually, such words can be expected to have different nuances or be used in different contexts - however, the four are not frequently used and seem to have developed alongside each other on a basis of personal choice such that there is not a lot of difference in their use. Perhaps "souvenir" stands out as being associated with tacky objects from tourist traps, thus lessening its use for more serious matters.


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## zaffy

No, I was just perplexed by #24. I asked if "keepsake" would work and looks like for many natives it would. 

Another thing, whatever we are given, no matter if it's a keepsake or memento, we might put it into a "keepsake box", right? You would not call it a "memento box", or would you?  Which makes me think 'keepsake" is a much more universal word and safer to use for non-natives. Am I right?


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## JulianStuart

I have a box with mementos in.  I actually call it my "Goodie Box" but have no idea how many other people might use that term. Some are reminders of events, some of people - whether they gave them to me or not.  *I* tend to reserve keepsake for items given to me by very special people for that purpose.  You will likely find a lot of variations on the theme, with different people having somewhat different usages.


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## zaffy

So in the third example in #34, where all the participants of some meeting have been given a rose so as to remember that event, not the giver, you would say
"Each of you has received a palmetto rose as a memento from this event", not 'keepsake' like that man did, right?


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## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> So in the third example in #34, where all the participants of some meeting have been given a rose so as to remember that event, not the giver, you would say
> "Each of you has received a palmetto rose as a memento from this event", not 'keepsake' like that man did, right?


Maybe. Knowing a bit more about the "event" might help.  But other people may have different preferences - you frequently seem to look for _really definitive_ answers where there is clearly variation from person to person.


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## zaffy

And coming back to the box  looks like indeed "keepsake box" is way more often used and even if I were given a memento, I would put it in a keepsake box  

Google Books Ngram Viewer


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## JulianStuart

I've already told you I call it a memento keepsake goodie box  It has both types of items in - and a couple of rare souvenirs.


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## zaffy

Do these work and am I right with the explanations? 

1. Ashley, I'd like to give you this shell as a keepsake. (I want her to remember me, looking at the shell)
2. Ashley,  I'd like to give you this shell as a memento. (I want her to remember the event, our meeting at the beach)
3. Ashley,  I'd like to give you this shell as a souvenir. (We were together on holiday and want her to keep it so that it would remind her of the coastal town we have visited )


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## zaffy

I guess I know where the confusion comes from. It's another BE/AE thing. And from the examples in #34, BE is becoming americenised as usual 
Source: Cambridge


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## JulianStuart

Not sure where you get the Americanized concept from.
BE @WRF





> Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::
> *keepsake*/ˈkiːpˌseɪk/n a gift that evokes memories of a person or event with which it is associated


AE @WRF





> WordReference Random House Learner's Dictionary of American English © 2020
> keep•sake /ˈkipˌseɪk/  n. [countable] anything kept, or given to be kept, as a memento; remembrance.


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## zaffy

JulianStuart said:


> Not sure where you get the Americanized concept from.



The BE definition I provided comes from Cambridge and it clearly reflects what PaulQ said in this thread. Whereas the wedding example made by a BR speaker (#34) contradicts it, as she used "keepsake" in the AE way.


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