# How much mistrust is there in your country?



## luis masci

I’ve always thought skepticism to be a distinctive characteristic only 
of the Argentineans, but as with many other things previously thought by 
me to be true, and in reality proven otherwise, it makes me wonder if this is the case.
To make it clear, here are some of my observations about the most common people distrusts.
About sports: the football championship is arranged behind the closed 
doors among the biggest clubs, and they know beforehand who will be the 
champion.
About justice: only the chicken thieves get punishment; the big thieves 
always get away with it.
About gambling: casino games, slot machines, and lotteries are pre-set.
About T.V. shows: everything is a hoax, and the winners actually have 
to give back their prizes off the camera.
About politics… well, better not to mention anything here because this 
post will be too long, but it’s not hard to imagine.
Aaaah… and since the last big economic crisis in 2001, many 
Argentineans don’t even trust the banks, and prefer to keep their savings under the mattress. Although in this matter I think we are unique.


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## Paulfromitaly

We are quite good at doing that over here too.(Italy)
The problem is that people start moaning or complaining about something they think it's not working the way it should, then at some point they demand a full enquiry into it and at the end facts prove they were right...


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## Etcetera

In Russia, there is a great common mistrust for the authorities, police forces, army, mass media, and what have you. 
So, we don't differ much from Argentina and Italy in this respect.


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## LV4-26

I've never been to Argentina, not met an Argentinean. Yet, all that you said sounds extremely familiar to me.


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## Hakro

luis masci said:


> Finland:
> To make it clear, here are some of my observations about the most common people distrusts.
> About sports: the football championship is arranged behind the closed doors among the biggest clubs, and they know beforehand who will be the champion. There has been a few cases - but I couldn't care less.
> About justice: only the chicken thieves get punishment; the big thieves always get away with it. The police is concentrating more and more on economical crimes - and it's been successful.
> About gambling: casino games, slot machines, and lotteries are pre-set. Slot machines are pre-set, as they are everywhere, but other games and lotteries are not - they are controlled by authorities.
> About T.V. shows: everything is a hoax, and the winners actually have to give back their prizes off the camera. Couldn't be possible here.
> About politics… well, better not to mention anything here because this post will be too long, but it’s not hard to imagine. I agree!


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

So, here's a thread when I can say something about Venezuela that I haven't said yet... Nice! 

Well, my country's full of contradictions.  These is what you hear (vs. see) on the street:

1) Sports: Sport matches are aaaaall fixed... but ah, how much we love a baseball game! And we fan our teams as fiery as a wild beast would look after her cubs.  Go, Lions!!! 

2) Justice: "Only the poor ones go to jail; the rich ones can always find a way out.  I wish everybody could have my integrity, you know?  But wait a minute, are you, like.., staring at me?  Do you have any idea _who I am_?  Well I'm the guy telling you to look at me in the wrong way, and I'll call my corrupted friends in the Police to make you pay!"

3) Gambling:  "What?  Betting?!?  That's a stupid way to waste your money and leave your kids starve, you're so irresponsible!  If you have some spare money you wanna get rid of, give it to me, you moron!  How come you're dumb enough to actually _gamble_?!  But hey, tell me later, man.  The horse race is about to start, and I need to know if my horse will pay me back for betting half my paycheck on it!"

4) TV shows:  "Those guys are soo foolish... they get paid a ridicolous amount to play the fool on camera, surely they have a sick mama at the hospital and 17 starving kids to raise.  Don't they make you feel pity?  By the way, who do you think will win this singing contest, which is nothing but a slightly uprgraded version of the same reality show they have been broadcasting for the last 5 years?"

5) Politics:  Well, I'd rather not, really...  This can get troublesome.


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## palomnik

There is mistrust, and there is mistrust.  While a lot of what you say can be found anywhere - given the human condition - in general Americans tend not to distrust their institutions tremendously, at least in comparison with other nations.

Americans tend not to trust each other very much, though.


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## curly

What are you saying? We're not paranoid, just ...careful 

There's a deep mistrust of Travelling folk in Ireland, I mean a really serious problem, such as one scene i remember of being in an old-folks home to visit my grandmother, there was a travelling family there and they were treated with perfectly fine manners by everyone,. until they left at which everyone jumped off their seats and checked that nothing had been stolen!

It was really amazing, I couldn't imgaine how it would even have been possible to steal something from them , especially as they had been there for only a few minutes almost all the time with their loved-one.


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## V3nom_is_here

luis masci said:


> I’ve always thought skepticism to be a distinctive characteristic only
> of the Argentineans, but as with many other things previously thought by
> me to be true, and in reality proven otherwise, it makes me wonder if this is the case.
> To make it clear, here are some of my observations about the most common people distrusts.
> About sports: the football championship is arranged behind the closed
> doors among the biggest clubs, and they know beforehand who will be the
> champion.
> About justice: only the chicken thieves get punishment; the big thieves
> always get away with it.
> About gambling: casino games, slot machines, and lotteries are pre-set.
> About T.V. shows: everything is a hoax, and the winners actually have
> to give back their prizes off the camera.
> About politics… well, better not to mention anything here because this
> post will be too long, but it’s not hard to imagine.
> Aaaah… and since the last big economic crisis in 2001, many
> Argentineans don’t even trust the banks, and prefer to keep their savings under the mattress. Although in this matter I think we are unique.


 
Well .. I`m from a country not as known . And since you brought up sports , recently the football (soccer for americans) has advanced , and the best teams from my country is able to compete with the great forces of europe (eventough from the lacking of experience , they`ve lost some matches) . But eventough we have performances , there are many discussion in the internal championship , about the fact that the club leaders have payed the referees to sell the match and stuff like that . Eventough I don`t belive anything like that happens .. 
About justice .. well .. the "big fishes" escape because they are "the big fishes" because of their intelligence , thus managing to escape ... but eventually they get caught .. 
About gambling .. it depends which type of gambling . The machines are usually set .. 
About Tv Shows .. maybe in other countries .. not here


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## ireney

The only thing we are sure of is that if we (me, my mom, my neighbour, each one individually) were in charge things would be much better. Everything else we mistrust. We are a bunch of ringleaders without a ring you see so everthing is done poorly and we could do everything better than anyone else .  And of course we are collectively better than anyone else therefore we collectively mistrust everyone else and of course, mistrust everything and everyone better than everyone else (I hope you follow the logic of the argument)


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## V3nom_is_here

My thinking is something like "As long as I don`t know him very good , I don`t trust him" .. but even if you don`t trust somebody , you shouldn`t "let them know it" ..


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## luis masci

Ok, thanks for the replies. My question aimed to know if there are other countries with such skepticism like there is in Argentina because I think it was created due to our antecedent along the history. 
Things happened here for example in 2001 when banks appropriated of the people’s savings (I think something that didn’t happen even in the poorest countries of the world) has created such a general mistrust that people hardly will forget it.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

This thread is very interesting...



luis masci said:


> Ok, thanks for the replies. My question aimed to know if there are other countries with such skepticism like there is in Argentina because I think it was created due to our antecedent along the history.
> Things happened here for example in 2001 when banks appropriated of the people’s savings (I think something that didn’t happen even in the poorest countries of the world) has created such a general mistrust that people hardly will forget it.


 
Well, back in the 90's, we had a slightly similar situation here. National economy crashed, several banks broke, some corruption cases made the headlines, the government attempted to take drastical measures in the economy field... That lead to the military coup for which people know the current president of the nation, Mr. Chávez, and the turmoil and instability lasted for a while. It was quite a critical period for my homeland, and even though it was not as sudden and drastical as in Argentina, it was still quite harmful and affected a lot of people.

Nevertheless, my people is a people of "_people _people" ("un pueblo muy 'gente' ") => human => very warm, receptive and -sometimes- naive people. So that's why the contradiction: there are reasons for mistrust but, "Who cares? Let's live, smile and be happy"



caballoschica said:


> People feel a disconnect to their government here. If they felt a connection, they would vote. Our turn-out is only about half the entire population for a reason - apathy and/or mistrust.


 
Here in Venezuela, that field is a tricky one. Our population is now around 26.000.000 people, most of which are old enough to vote. Any idea what our turn-out was here, a couple of weeks ago? Less than 10.000.000 people. That says it all, I think...


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## JazzByChas

I must agree with LV4-26: this could be found in any country where there is a marketplace, and where the "golden rule" applies: "Those who have the gold, rule."

I know that we are probably as cynical in America as you are in Argentina.



			
				luis masci said:
			
		

> I’ve always thought skepticism to be a distinctive characteristic only
> of the Argentineans, but as with many other things previously thought by
> me to be true, and in reality proven otherwise, it makes me wonder if this is the case.
> To make it clear, here are some of my observations about the most common people distrusts.
> About sports: the football championship is arranged behind the closed
> doors among the biggest clubs, and they know beforehand who will be the
> champion.
> About justice: only the chicken thieves get punishment; the big thieves
> always get away with it.
> About gambling: casino games, slot machines, and lotteries are pre-set.
> About T.V. shows: everything is a hoax, and the winners actually have
> to give back their prizes off the camera.
> About politics… well, better not to mention anything here because this
> post will be too long, but it’s not hard to imagine.
> Aaaah… and since the last big economic crisis in 2001, many
> Argentineans don’t even trust the banks, and prefer to keep their savings under the mattress. Although in this matter I think we are unique.


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## palomnik

Caballoschica, as far as politicians go, I just quit a job working for a state government here for eight years, where I was in constant contact with elected officials...and their staff, and their publicists. After that experience I, for one, will never trust an elected official again as long as I live.


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## 1Euro

Mistrust in public (or private...) authorities is widely extended in the Spanish speaking world.

Sort of an anecdote: Soon after Franco won the Spanish Civil War, Francoist propaganda copied much of Nazi propaganda in order to help build the new regime. But they dropped all "the Leader is infallible" subjects because no Spaniard would ever believe that a fellow countryman can be infallible.


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## badgrammar

The French don't trust anybody - and probably they shouldn't...  Because for every person here complaining about "des abus" (abuses) of the social security system, or collecting unemployment or whatever...  that same person probably considers it quite normal when they themselves profit from the system.  It's a real hypocrisy.  It's always like "I paid my taxes for it, I've got it coming", however the other guy "He's abusing the system"...

I think it's funny. Now I will run and hide before the onslaught of rebuttals from French people!!!


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator Note:  All posts about voting / not voting have been moved to an existing thread (here) on this topic.  Please return to Luis' original topic, and start a new thread if you wish to discuss something different.


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## natasha2000

luis masci said:


> I’ve always thought skepticism to be a distinctive characteristic only of the Argentineans...
> ...
> Aaaah… and since the last big economic crisis in 2001, many
> Argentineans don’t even trust the banks, and prefer to keep their savings under the mattress. Although in this matter I think we are unique.


 
People form opinions on something based on their own experience. So, in many of those cases you mention, the experience is what had influence on forming such mistrust towards many things you mention.
I think that mistrust in banks and politicians in Serbia is pretty the same as in Argentina. Serbs were robbed many times by banks, and cheated many times by politicians. So, why trust them then? There is also a big mistrust in police and army, too, since they also brought many deceptions to Serbs in the recent past. The new Serbian gouvernment should put unhuman effort in order to get back the trust of a common Serb in politicians, police, army, system.


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## natasha2000

luis masci said:


> Things happened here for example in 2001 when banks appropriated of the people’s savings (I think something that didn’t happen even in the poorest countries of the world) has created such a general mistrust that people hardly will forget it.


Oh, yes, it happened and in the heart of Europe. 
First, state banks took all the money and savings people had in foreign currency. They gave them exchanged for dinars, which, with the tremendous inflation that existed in those times, soon was converted in nothing. As an example, I would say if you had 10 000 dollars, they would give you what is today some 5 000 dolars, and nextd day, you would have only 2 000 dolars, in dinars, of course, and if you waited one or two days more without changing it to dolars or deutch marks, you would not have 2000 dollars any more, but only 200. Then, another robber appeared.
During those lunatic years of war, in Serbia appeared some banks whose owners were of suspicuous background, and had nothing to do with bank bussiness earlier, but nevertheless, they found a bank who gave almost 100% if interests. So, many people rushed to put little money in foreign currency that was left from state banks robbery. Many of them were living from it, putting for example 100 or 200 dolars or deutsch marks, and with the intersts of almost 100%, they managed to live somehow. The life was very cheap in Serbia in those days. And this lasted for some one or two years, and then, as it was to expect, those banks declared bankrupcy, and all the money stayed in the pockets of thir owners, who are said to be in a direct connection with the Miloshevic's regime.

After such things, I think it is almost impossible to give back the trust in state banks or any bank that is Serbian. Now there are many foreign banks, and people prefer them to national banks, as I am told.


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## natasha2000

ireney said:


> The only thing we are sure of is that if we (me, my mom, my neighbour, each one individually) were in charge things would be much better. Everything else we mistrust. We are a bunch of ringleaders without a ring you see so everthing is done poorly and we could do everything better than anyone else . And of course we are collectively better than anyone else therefore we collectively mistrust everyone else and of course, mistrust everything and everyone better than everyone else (I hope you follow the logic of the argument)


 
hehehe...  For a moment, I thought you were describing Serbians... Maybe this is rather Balcan-type attitude common to all Balcan countries...


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## luis masci

Ok Natasha... veo que no somos los únicos.
Entonces será como dice el dicho:"mal de muchos consuelo de tontos"


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## natasha2000

luis masci said:


> Ok Natasha... veo que no somos los únicos.
> Entonces será como dice el dicho:"mal de muchos consuelo de tontos"


Así es, Luís, así es....

Pero te entiendo, perfectamente. A veces me preguntaba lo mismo.


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## Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!

Meanwhile in the Czech Republic, someone is painting a pessimistic view of his homeland...


luis masci said:


> About sports: the football championship is arranged behind the closed doors among the biggest clubs, and they know beforehand who will be the champion.


With the recent corruption scandals in our top football league, this isn't skepticism anymore; it's a well-known fact. It's a huge black mark that the league isn't going to get rid of for decades, even if it's purged now.



luis masci said:


> About justice: only the chicken thieves get punishment; the big thieves always get away with it.


Again, this is a fact of life. Viktor Kožený is practically a household name. Or, more recently, Radovan Krejčíř. 

Before the parliamentary elections this year, a detective from the Organized Crime Investigation Bureau came up with a report that severely denigrated the prime minister (who was already, and remains, a highly dislikeable character, but that's beside the point) with allegations of ties to the Russian maffia and other kinds of organized crime. Last I checked, none of it has been proven (anyone who knows more than me, please correct me), but it still bore a significant influence on the election - in a way, it could be blamed for the current protracted stalemate. By the way, I don't remember the details, but the previous prime minister (from the same party) had to resign over some kind of real estate scam.

The current president led the 1990s economic reforms that created a lawless, corruption-ridden environment, giving rise to a new meaning of the term tunnelling (see also Viktor Kožený). Whether this was more because of his naïveté or because his hands are dirty too is anyone's guess.

Looks like this is turning into a rant, so I'll just mention one more thing: the notorious case of one Colonel Zdeněk Janíček, the deputy chief of the Prague police, who in 2005 was found dead in the cellar of his home. He was hanged and stabbed about thirty times. His death was repeatedly declared a suicide.

So, yeah. It's getting pretty hard to tell high politics, the police force, and organized crime apart. And to boot, the courts are notoriously slow, and many cases (no matter what kind) stretch on for years or even decades.



luis masci said:


> About gambling: casino games, slot machines, and lotteries are pre-set.


Casino games and slot machines are obvious, aren't they? I think lotteries might not be rigged, although it probably varies from lottery to lottery.



luis masci said:


> About T.V. shows: everything is a hoax, and the winners actually have to give back their prizes off the camera.


This was actually the case in at least one quiz show made by a company my mother worked in. I managed to get into the audience for one episode, and witnessed how they had to give their medals back as soon as the red light turned off. They allegedly stopped doing it later, though.



luis masci said:


> About politics… well, better not to mention anything here because this post will be too long, but it’s not hard to imagine.


See above.



luis masci said:


> Aaaah… and since the last big economic crisis in 2001, many Argentineans don’t even trust the banks, and prefer to keep their savings under the mattress. Although in this matter I think we are unique.


Think again. It's not that banks don't have credibility here, but it actually does pay off to keep your money under the matress due to the exorbitant fees local banks love to slap on services that are taken for granted in most of the civilized world. They're guaranteed to exceed any measly interest you might possibly risk accumulating.


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