# true / truth



## ThomasK

I asked about the etymological link between 'trust' and 'truth' before, but I wondered whether more words could be linked with the 'truth/true' root. 

English:  there is t_ruth, trust,_ but also *betrothal *(etc., via an oath), and a link with *tree *does not seem implausible.

Bulgarian : the word for faith (_viera _?) is in the words for *'trust'* and *'loyalty'*, I was told...

Dutch: the word *waar *(true) might be the one appearing in *waarnemen *(perceive, 'take as true'). But the Latin _verus_, French _vrai_, seems to appear in the Dutch _*fraai*_, meaning nice, beautiful... Our *tr*-words only refer to trust (_vertrouwen_) and loyalty (_trouw_); there is no link with truth in Dutch...


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## arielipi

In hebrew it is related to validation, more likely truth in hebrew actually is 'valid'.
Also is linked to real, reality, if something is true it is real, moreover the root forms real/reality words.
It also serves as a confirmation.
It also serves as a strengthening word (similar to "in truth....")


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## ThomasK

Really? Could you give some words (verbs) with some minimal context? (Something like - for example - : _"א-מ-נ" ( '-m-n) - realize something in one's mind _???)


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## arielipi

this is not real - זה לא אמיתי ze lo amiti
is it true? האם אמת הדבר? ha'im emet hadavar?
did you confirm/validate this with him? אימתת את זה איתו? imateta et ze ito?
לא דיברתי איתו,אמת, אך כן שמעתי מה שהוא אמר. lo dibarti ito, emet, ach ken shamati ma shehu amar. i didnt speak with him, (in truth though)* [emet], but * i did hear what he said.


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## DarkChild

ThomasK said:


> Bulgarian : the word for faith (_viera _?) is in the words for *'trust'* and *'loyalty'*, I was told...



Yes, *vyara *(alt. *vera*) is faith, while trust is do*ver*ie, and loyalty - *vyar*nost


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## ThomasK

Can I then say that *vyara*, 'faith', is the underlying root? At least morphologically, I suppose, these words are derivations of this one word. - Just by the way: what are the adjectives linked to those three words? Any verbs (like 'rely on')?  

I suppose the words in other Slavic languages are similar, or aren't they?


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## ger4

Russian hasn't been mentioned yet (native speakers can probably add more expressions derived from the same root):
- верa/vera - noun - 'trust', 'faith', 'belief', ... 
- верить/verit' - verb - 'to trust', 'to believe', ...   
- верный/verny -  adjective - 'true'; 'faithful', ...   

On the other hand:
- правда/pravda - noun - 'truth', 'verity', 'justice', ... 
- истина/istina - noun - 'truth', 'verity', ...


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## Delvo

Why did you use Latin "versus" instead of "veritas"?


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## ThomasK

Interesting link: believing is based on truth (whereas I associate belief with disbelief, or with doubt ;-)... Of course it is obvious, but in Germanic languages we don't have that etymological link...


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## AutumnOwl

Swedish:
True = sann (you have the same root in the English word sooth = true)
Truth = sanning

As for the etymology for true:


> *Word History: * The  words _true_ and _tree_ are  joined  at  the  root,  etymologically  speaking.  In  Old  English,  the  words  looked  and  sounded  much  more  alike  than  they  do  now:  "tree"  was _trēow_ and  "true"  was _trēowe._ The  first  of  these  comes  from  the  Germanic  noun _*trewam_; the second, from the adjective _*treuwaz._ Both  these  Germanic  words  ultimately  go  back  to  an  Indo-European  root _*deru-_ or _*dreu-,_ appearing  in  derivatives  referring  to  wood  and,  by  extension,  firmness.  Truth  may  be  thought  of  as  something  firm;  so  too  can  certain  bonds  between  people,  like _trust,_ another  derivative  of  the  same  root.  A  slightly  different  form  of  the  root, _*dru-,_ appears  in  the  word _druid,_ a  type  of  ancient  Celtic  priest;  his  name  is  etymologically _*dru-wid-,_ or  "strong  seer."



From: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/true


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## ThomasK

AutumnOwl said:


> Swedish:
> True = sann (you have the same root in the English word sooth = true)
> Truth = sanning
> 
> As for the etymology for true:
> 
> 
> From: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/true


I thought _sinnen _had something to with thinking, but that is based on Dutch (_bezinning_, reflection, -_gezind_, minded, etc.). Not correct?


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> I thought _sinnen _had something to with thinking, but that is based on Dutch (_bezinning_, reflection, -_gezind_, minded, etc.). Not correct?


The words *sann* = true (probably Indo-European root _sonto-_ and *sinne* = mind, sense (probably from Indo-european _sent-n-_) , are not related, according to Svensk etymologisk ordbok http://runeberg.org/svetym/


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## Gavril

Japanese 本当 (_hontō_) "truth" is composed of _hon_, which by itself means "main, real, true", and _tō, _which by itself means"this"_. _But I don't know if the semantics of these two elements was the same when the compound _hontō _was first formed.

真 "true, just" can be read _ma_ or _shin_; I don't know if either word can be parsed any further.


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## ThomasK

@Gavril: but can you derive other words from _hon_? Is 'loyalty' in Japanese for example, or 'believe', based on it? 

@AutumnOwl: thanks for that information. I am just wondering: _sinne _will probably be linked with 'sense', but is some English/German/ Dutch  word etymologically linked with 'sann'??? 

Postscriptum: I first did not know but then I found out: via 'sooth' one can probably arrive at 'zonde', i.e., sin, in Dutch... Etymonline gives interesting comment on that...


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## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> @Gavril: but can you derive other words from _hon_?



Yes, it appears in a lot of other compounds (honki "truth, sanctity", hon'i "standard, principle", etc.).



> Is 'loyalty' in Japanese for example, or 'believe', based on it?



Not that I know of, but someone who knows the language better than me might be able to point out a connection.


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> @AutumnOwl: thanks for that information. I am just wondering: _sinne _will probably be linked with 'sense', but is some English/German/ Dutch  word etymologically linked with 'sann'???
> 
> Postscriptum: I first did not know but then I found out: via 'sooth' one can probably arrive at 'zonde', i.e., sin, in Dutch... Etymonline gives interesting comment on that...


Yes. there is an interesting connection between "sann/true" and "sin":


> sooth (n.) Old English soð "truth, justice, righteousness, rectitude; reality, certainty," noun use of soð (adj.) "true, genuine, real; just, righteous," originally *sonð-, from Proto-Germanic *santhaz (cognates: Old Norse sannr, Old Saxon soth, Old High German sand "true," Gothic sunja "truth").
> 
> The group is related to Old English synn "sin" and Latin sontis "guilty" (truth is related to guilt via "being the one;" see sin (v.)), from PIE *es-ont- "being, existence," thus "real, true," from present participle of root *es-, the s-form of the verb "to be" (see be), preserved in Latin sunt "they are" and German sind. Archaic in English, it is the root of modern words for "true" in Swedish (sann) and Danish (sand). In common use until mid-17c., then obsolete until revived as an archaism early 19c. by Scott, etc. Used for Latin pro- in translating compounds into Old English, such as soðtacen "prodigy," soðfylgan "prosequi."


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sooth


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## ThomasK

That was what I meant indeed. But I only discovered it later ons...


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## igusarov

Holger2014 said:


> - правда/pravda  - noun - 'truth', 'verity', 'justice', ...


"Правда" in Russian  has a story to tell... It is derived not from the "truth, faith", but  rather from the word for "right" - "правый".
"Правый", apart from its  literal meaning "right" as in "my right hand", also means "right" as in  "I'm right", "the right thing to do". So, "the truth" is actually "something that is right".

Some words which are further derived from "the truth" are:
"*правд*ивый" adj. = "honest", "truthful".
"*правд*оподобный" adj. = "plausible" (literal: "truth-similar")
"о*правд*ание" noun = "an excuse", an attempt to make something seem right, as in "stop making excuses!"
"о*правд*ано" adj. = "justified", i.e. something that has a good (right) reason behind it.
"о*правд*ать" verb = to drop criminal charges, when a person is found not guilty.
"вза*правд*у" adv. = "for real", "really".


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## ThomasK

Thanks for these notes. I think though that the word 'right' in all kinds of languages has quite some meanings and con-notations... (Think of 'rectus', Dutch 'recht' (and richt [= direct])). They turn up in numerous combinations, such as rex, regis and (maha)raja, director, etc... )


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## 涼宮

The word for truth in Japanese is commonly said as 真実 _shinjitsu_. 真 refers to genuine, 実 refers to sincerity or fidelity. 

本当 _hontou (hon _means _origin_, too_)_ is also an option as Gavril said, but you don't usually use it that way, I mean, it's commonly used as an adverb as _hontouni_ (really) or _hontou no koto_ to mean ''true thing''. I find _hontou no koto_ to be more colloquial than _shinjitsu_. 

事実 _jijitsu_ also means 'truth' as a 'fact'.

真相 _shinsou_ (lit. genuine one's nature/appearance) means 'truth' talking about the actual circumstances or appearance of something. While _shinjitsu_ refers to the contrary of lies, _shinsou_ talks about the true content/appearance/nature of something. For example, if you want to know the truth about what happened in an accident, you'd use _shinsou_. If you use _shinjitsu_ to talk about an accident you're not asking about its content, you're merely asking whether or not the accident actually took place. 

現実 _genjitsu_ (reality, consciousness) means _reality_ or _truth_. This one has more to do with reality, a truth that is presented before your eyes, actuality, that's why the kanji 現 _gen_ has as its root (radical) the verb _to see. _Of course, _genjitsu_ has to do with experiences after all as it talks about reality. The other kind of truths don't necessarily involve experience. 

真理 _shinri_ (genuine reason/logic) is a broader term and can mean both a truth that can be proven and has no lies or a truth that has been recognized as being an errorless fact.


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## ThomasK

Encolpius wrote this in the old thread (which I am trying to have deleted): 


> *Hungarian* igaz(i) --- it means only true nothing else



I did wonder, Encolpius, if there could be a link between 'igen' (yes) and 'igaz(i'). I know I am very good at wishful thinking, but somehow it might make sense, I thought...


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## apmoy70

In Greek it's related to forgetfullness:


Truth: *«Αλήθεια»* [aˈliθι.a] & [aˈliθça] (fem.) < Classical fem. noun *«ἀληθείᾱ» ălētʰeíā*, and *«ἀληθείη» ălētheíē* --> _truth_; compound; privative prefix *«ἀ-» a-* + Classical fem. noun *«λήθη» lḗtʰē* --> _forgetfullness_ (PIE *leh₂dʰ-, _to remain unnoticed or hidden_ cf Skt. लयते (layate), _to go_; Lat. latere; OCS лаяти, _to ambush, lie in wait for_).


True: Adj. *«αληθινός, -νή, -νό»* [aliθiˈnos] (masc.), [aliθiˈni] (fem.), [aliθiˈno] (neut.), learned *«αληθής, -θής -θές»* [aliˈθis] (masc. & fem.), [aliˈθes] (neut.) < Classical adj. *«ἀληθής, -θής, -θές» ălētʰḗs* (masc. and fem.), *ălēthés* (neut.).
True/truth is primarily that which is not forgotten.


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