# Hindi: pronunciation of nasal N 'ओं, एं'



## marrish

Dear forum members,

I would like to share my doubt and ask you all for opinion, based on what you have heard.

I am not really sure but as far as I can recall, I heard a couple of times the final nasal sound in plural oblique words being dropped. It would be a very interesting phenomenon, maybe a local one, I really don't know. I think the nasal sound in feminine plural and in the postposition _meN_ was also the subject of this alternative pronunciation.

Eg. दोनों _donoN -> _दोनो _dono, 
_किताबों में _kitaaboN meN_ -> किताबो मे _kitaabo _me
किताबें _kitaabeN_ -> किताबे _kitaabe
_लड़कों के साथ _laRkoN ke saath_ -> लड़को के साथ _laRko ke saath

_


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## Qureshpor

I have been told by reliable sources that both "donoN" and "dono" are correct. I believe I have seen "dono" in writing in Urdu but I won't be able to tell you where, in case you begin another one of your interrogations!


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## marrish

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do not have to start interrogating you because I know the answer: _kahiiN_, and this with a distinctly articulated nasal N!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do not have to start interrogating you because I know the answer: _kahiiN_, and this with a distinctly articulated nasal N!



May be this too is like saikRaa/saiNkRaa, all depending on how your nose is feeling at a particular moment in time!

H دونو दोनो_dono = H دونون दोनों donoṅ [obl. pl. of do; and=Prk. दोण्हं or दोण्हहुं (gen. plur.)], adj. The two, both, both of them:—donoṅ t̤araf, adv. On both sides:—donoṅ-ke donoṅ, adj.=donoṅ:—donoṅ waqt milte, adv. At the mingline of day and night, at dusk:—donoṅ waqt milnā, Day and night to mingle, day to shade into night, to become dusk:—donoṅ hāth tālī bajānā, lit. 'To clap with both bands'; to reciprocate, to meet half way; to give as good as one gets._


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> May be this too is like saikRaa/saiNkRaa, all depending on how your nose is feeling at a particular moment in time!
> 
> H دونو दोनो_dono = H دونون दोनों donoṅ [obl. pl. of do; and=Prk. दोण्हं or दोण्हहुं (gen. plur.)], adj. The two, both, both of them:—donoṅ t̤araf, adv. On both sides:—donoṅ-ke donoṅ, adj.=donoṅ:—donoṅ waqt milte, adv. At the mingline of day and night, at dusk:—donoṅ waqt milnā, Day and night to mingle, day to shade into night, to become dusk:—donoṅ hāth tālī bajānā, lit. 'To clap with both bands'; to reciprocate, to meet half way; to give as good as one gets._



Thank you again. It is very informative. In the meantime I added a couple of other examples.


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## souminwé

The word_ dono i_s definitely something I often say without any nasal, and same with _meN_ (for some reason, I find saying meN difficult, same goes for maiN). However, not nasalising the plural oblique or the plural feminine would sound markedly incorrect - for me they have a heavy nasal sound.


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## marrish

Indeed, _dono_ and _me_ was the incentive to start this thread! 
In case of pronunciation problems, please know that you are not alone! I mostly don't pronounce the N in _maiN ne_.

Your opinion on the plural oblique (actually donoN is also one of them) and plural feminines is much appreciated - these I heard scarcely, for most part not in plural feminines, but in -oN.


Maybe I'm wrong.


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## BDC

I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound.  And I have been trying!  I just thought that no one actually used them.  Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?

I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.  

I am talkng about Hindi here.


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## UrduMedium

BDC said:


> I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound.  And I have been trying!  I just thought that no one actually used them.  Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?
> 
> I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.
> 
> I am talkng about Hindi here.



Not sure of this example pertinent here or not (as here the nasal is on a verb not noun)


ab ke ham bicchRe to shayad kabhii _xwaboN _meN _*mileN*_
jis taraH suukhe hue phuul _kitaboN _meN _*mileN*_


Dropping the last nasal completely changes the meaning. Also without the nasal, xwabo*N* and kitabo*N* sounds incomplete.


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## marrish

BDC said:


> I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound.  And I have been trying!  I just thought that no one actually used them.  Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?
> 
> I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.
> 
> I am talkng about Hindi here.


Thank you for your feedback. Seemingly the nasals are indeed not always properly articulated. I do use them (the nasal sound) very much, sometimes more than enough!


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## marrish

mbasit said:


> Not sure of this example pertinent here or not (as here the nasal is on a verb not noun)
> 
> 
> ab ke ham bicchRe to shayad kabhii _xwaboN _meN _*mileN*_
> jis taraH suukhe hue phuul _kitaboN _meN _*mileN*_
> 
> 
> Dropping the last nasal completely changes the meaning. Also without the nasal, xwabo*N* and kitabo*N* sounds incomplete.


It is surely correct what you said above but I haven't ask for verbs.
_xwaabo, kitaabo_ sounds incomplete, indeed, I feel like completing it like _xwaabo xarosh, kitaabo qalam._


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> It is surely correct what you said above but I haven't ask for verbs.
> _xwaabo, kitaabo_ sounds incomplete, indeed, I feel like completing it like _xwaabo xarosh, kitaabo qalam._



You may have come across some people who actually ADD the nasal when it is n't there!

logoN! xudaa kaa xauf karo!

ai bahaaroN! meraa jiivan bhii saNvaaro.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> You may have come across some people who actually ADD the nasal when it is n't there!
> 
> logoN! xudaa kaa xauf karo!
> 
> ai bahaaroN! meraa jiivan bhii saNvaaro.


You are very right! They do it indeed! I would say:

_logo!!! xudaa kaa xauf karo aur aise nah bolo!!!_


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## Qureshpor

In response to the following from another thread "To agree", I wrote..

Do some native speakers of Hindi miss out the nasal in their speech for "maiN","maiN ne", "tumheN" etc or are these all just typos?



JaiHind said:


> 'As soon as we agreed on it, I will tell you.' would be: "Jaise hi hum log is par sahmat honge, mai tumhe bataa dunga/dungi."
> 
> "Raazii hona" is correct and would mean "to agree". Like in, Mai raazii/sahmat ho gaya.
> 
> "Raazi karna" would mean "to make someone agree." Like in, Maine Ramesh ko raazii/sahmat kar liya.



I don't personally think these are typos. In this forum other "native" Hindi speakers have also displayed this phenomenon. I too am curious for the reason behind this.


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## greatbear

Speaking for me personally, I sometimes add nasals where there aren't any! As for JaiHind's post, I believe it was mere carelessness, since I can't imagine a "tumheN" without the nasal.


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## tonyspeed

Take a look at "Raj Thackeray - in HINDI interview Exclusively with Mandar Phanse - PART 1". At second 00:50 he pronounces maiN 3 times. I hear the nasal. But then at 00:58 he says "vahii saarii chiiz*e*", dropping the nasal. Can we view this as a mistake? Even at 00:53, to me it sounds like he says "bat*e* bol rahaa hooN"


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## greatbear

tonyspeed said:


> Take a look at "Raj Thackeray - in HINDI interview Exclusively with Mandar Phanse - PART 1". At second 00:50 he pronounces maiN 3 times. I hear the nasal. But then at 00:58 he says "vahii saarii chiiz*e*", dropping the nasal. Can we view this as a mistake? Even at 00:53, to me it sounds like he says "bat*e* bol rahaa hooN"



I don't think he is a native Hindi speaker anyway, he's Marathi.


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