# Ukrainian etymology: москали



## cyaxares_died

I just learnt on the Russian forum that "*москали" *means "someone from Moscow in slang". Now, the -li is a Turkish suffix, which is added to the names of places. Does the same rule apply to Ukrainian and is the suffix borrowed from Turkish? So is someone from Kiev a "Киевли"?


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## Maroseika

This suffix is common for at least all Eastern-Slavic languages, mostly "making a person or subject from a verb and sometimes from nouns": 
строгать - строгаль
стричь - стригаль
макать - макаль
крохать (крякать) - крохаль (bird) 
ботать - ботало
Киев - киевлянин
and so on...
Coincidence with Turkish suffix is quite causal.


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## Natabka

Cyaxares_died, hi!
Now, that's a funny question. In Ukraine we use "москалі" referring to all the Russians when we want to be rude and somewhat despising - like saying "Nigers" about black people (probably, not a good example). In their turn, Russians would call us "хохлы". But I have no idea about the etymology  

P.S. It's "Київ"/Kyiv in Ukrainian, so people from there are called "кияни".


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## Maroseika

I can add that actually москаль is borrowed to Ukrainian from Polish (moskal), therefore this suffix is used by other Slavic languages as well.
I don't think this word had then any negative connotation.


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## Jana337

Moderator note: Some posts from this thread were moved here.


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## njumi

Maroseika said:


> I can add that actually москаль is borrowed to Ukrainian from Polish (moskal), therefore this suffix is used by other Slavic languages as well.
> I don't think this word had then any negative connotation.



For a long time I've been considering this word (*moskal*) to have a negative connotation from its beginnings, however later I've found out about the poem of Adam Mickiewicz entitled "Do przyjaciół Moskali" in which he referred to the situation of the Russian people upon the rule of the tzars and and told about Decembrist revolt (full of compassion etc.). So in this case (maybe in other cases too) the word *moskal* had the friendly connotation. It could have the neutral meaning, but I'm not really convinced about it.

I have to add that the surname *Moskal *in Poland is quite popular...


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## Darina

The suffix of _moskali_ is -i, (plural), not -li. It cannot be Turkish. 
In Bulgarian, the Turkish suffix is often used:
Varna-Varnalii
Haskovo-Haskovlii
Lovech-Lovchanlii


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## Maroseika

njumi said:


> For a long time I've been considering this word (*moskal*) to have a negative connotation from its beginnings, however later I've found out about the poem of Adam Mickiewicz entitled "Do przyjaciół Moskali" in which he referred to the situation of the Russian people upon the rule of the tzars and and told about Decembrist revolt (full of compassion etc.). So in this case (maybe in other cases too) the word *moskal* had the friendly connotation. It could have the neutral meaning, but I'm not really convinced about it.
> 
> I have to add that the surname *Moskal *in Poland is quite popular...


We can compare this situation with Russian лях = Pole (< Anc.-Pol. *lęch < diminutive of *lęděninъ - inhabitant of lędо - virgin soil). 
It was quite neutral since 10-11 centuries, but obtained negative connotation obviousely after the "Polish" invasion of 1612.


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## njumi

I've recalled that the name of the Russian state before the coronation of Ivan IV had a name of "Duchy of Moscow" later "Gran Duchy of Moscow", so _Moskal_ should be a common name of the inhabitant of the region belonging to the russian country before 1547 when the corronation took place.


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