# Pronunciació de "Valencià"



## Linnets

_Hola_, I'm sorry I can't speak either Catalan or Valencian.
On Wikipedia I found this statement about the Catalan/Valencian pronunciation of _Valencià_: [valensi'a]. Being a native speaker of Italian and having studied Spanish (I study French at present time) I would have guessed [valen'sja] or, at least, [-si'ja] with a glide: the hiatus seems innatural to me. Could you explain me if it is right and where I can find good resources for Valencian phonology?
Best regards and thanks in advance.


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## merquiades

Hello.  You can check the pronunciation of words in the Diccionari Català-Valencià-Balear.  http://dcvb.iecat.net/ 
Fon.: bəɫənsiá (oriental); baɫensiá (occidental, València); vaɫensiá (Castellò, Alacant); vəɫənsiá (Tarragona, balear).  
Catalan is said to have dipthongs only when the weak vowels u/i follow strong vowels (au, ai, eu, ei, ii, iu, ou, oi, uu, ui) but not when they precede them. i/u + a, o, e is supposed to be in hiatus, and form its own syllable.  Personally I find that the rule is often broken in popular speech.


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## Linnets

The dictionary you advised me seems to back up [ba.ɫen.si'a] (four syllables) for Valencian pronunciation of _Valencià_.


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## merquiades

Yes, 4 syllables.. Va-len-ci-à.  You also have a syllabic dictionary here:  http://ca.oslin.org/syllables.php But it looks like the word Valencià hasn't been included.


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## Linnets

Notice also initial * (although Valencian should have also /v/ phoneme, whereas other Catalan variants have only /b/) and velar [ɫ].*


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## merquiades

It looks like the city of Valencia as /b/ whereas the south and north of the region have /v/.  I've heard /v/ is currently receding.

I found this information on the website of L'Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua. http://www.avl.gva.es/inici.html


> La successió de dos vocals pertanyents a síl·labes differentes constituïx un hiat, com en lli-bre-ri-a i ma-nu-al





> Si bé una part dels parlants valencians diferencien el so bilabial oclusiu sonor /b/ del labiodental fricatiu sonor /v/, per a evitar la confusió en l'ús de la grafies b i v cal tindre en compte que s'escriu b en els casos següents.....


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## jmx

I find the pronunciation with hiatus (4 syllables) horribly artificial. I haven't ever heard it, not even in newsreaders. Notice that I'm not a native speaker, though. I presume that the "no diphthong possible here" rule is more related to orthographical rules than to phonetics.


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## ACQM

jmartins said:


> I find the pronunciation with hiatus (4 syllables) horribly artificial. I haven't ever heard it, not even in newsreaders. Notice that I'm not a native speaker, though. I presume that the "no diphthong possible here" rule is more related to orthographical rules than to phonetics.



I don't agree at all. In fact, "no diphthong possible here" rule is the real speech for native speakers, otherwise some non-native try to compare Catalan to Spanish all the time and think that, if something is "possible" in Spanish, it is "possible" in Catalan. The fact that you are "able" to pronounce something doesn't mean that is "possible" in a specific language.


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## merquiades

Hello.  I think that both of you are right.  In pure Catalan/Valencian there should be hiatus, but maybe not a dramatic one.  In many areas there are probably more non-native speakers nowadays than native ones or else bilingual speakers, with the native speakers also perfect in Spanish.  So you will hear those who pronounce a word like València pretty much the same way as they would in Spanish, and on the flip side what I have heard in the media, some who really mark the difference by prolonging the hiatus.  I heard not so long ago in an interview someone say in a similar word something like Və-ɫèèn-ci-***ə which sounds strange to me, also with these very strong neutral vowels and the vocalized ɫ.  I've often thought it sounds like Portuguese, but again this is just an observer talking...


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## jmx

Here are some academic thoughts on the question: 

http://filcat.uab.cat/clt/publicacions/reports/pdf/GGT-07-14.pdf (in Catalan, sorry)

Excerpts:





> . . . paraules com _b[j]ologia_, _var[j]ac[j]ó_, _pac[j]ènc[j]a_, _comèd[j]a,_ etc. són generalment pronunciades amb semivocal, i no només no poden ser considerades impròpies o defectuoses dins una dicció catalana estàndard sinó que són pràcticament les úniques possibles en una elocució natural no afectada. La nostra tasca serà, doncs, descobrir quins són els factors que han afavorit o inhibit les pronúncies diftongades i descriure i justificar quines són les posicions que han cedit i quines són lesmés reàcies a acceptar el canvi. En la secció 2 presentem evidència que la diftongació de les seqüències _iV, uV _no és un procés recent de la llengua, sinó que va començar com a mínim fa més de quatre segles.


 Partial Translation: 





> Words such as _b[j]ologia_, _var[j]ac[j]ó_, _pac[j]ènc[j]a_, _comèd[j]a _are generally pronounced with semivowel, and not only they cannot be considered faulty in a standard Catalan diction, but in fact they are virtually the only possible ones in a natural, non-affected speech. . . . In section 2 we show evidence that the diphthongation of the sequences iV, uV is not a recent process, as it began at least more than 4 centuries ago.


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