# moose / elk



## jhc125

How do you distinguish between moose and elk?  I get "alces" for each.


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## GracielaW

hola!
Lo encontré en Wikipedia, M*oose* es la traduccióin de Alce en Norte América, E*lk* es usado en Europa.
Espero esto te sirva,
Bye


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## jhc125

Thank you so much for your response, but I'm still a little confused.  We have both moose and elk in North America -- two very different animals.  I am trying to describe some of the animals found in Yellowstone National Park:

You can see moose, elk, bears, bison, and coyotes in the park.

Puede ver alces, _____, osos, bisontes y coyotes en el parque.


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## aurilla

www.smouse.force9.co.uk/facts5.htm


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## charisma_classic

Alce is moose.  You might use "ciervo" or "ciervo rojo" for elk, since they are also called "red deer".


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## jhc125

Thank you so much.  I will use "ciervo" to distinguish it from "alce".  jc


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## littlegringa

Hello. I was just researching this myself. For elk, I have also found this term: "uapití" (from "wapiti"). 

This would be a bit more specific than "ciervo," which as far as I can tell, might be used for any member of the genus Cervus, although I'm not an expert.


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## Ralba

Yes Littlegringa, you're right!!!

Moose (for yankees) = uapití

Elk = Alce

Deer = Ciervo (ibérico)

Moose (for brits) = Ciervo (europeo)

(European Deer differs a little from Iberic Deer. Iberic Deer is smaller and sleeker than European Deer and is present in Portugal, Spain, and Scotland).

Roe deer = corzo

I can assure that 'cause I'm a hunter and know what I mean.

Best reg


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## mateo19

I agree with littlegringa, I would also be more specific than _ciervo_ because that's the translation that I usually use for a simple deer, although I heard another word when I was in Argentina, it could have been "venado".  It is tricky to translate animal names like this (I'm always frustrated that in Spanish there is no distinction between chipmunk and groundhound) and also certain fruits, like the infamous berries. . . 

I think Ralba did a great job describing our animals here!

¡Buena suerte y Feliz Navidad!


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## Ralba

Keeping on the issue that Mateo19 came out with in his reply, I must tell to him that "venado" (or "venao") isn't at all a Spanish word native from Argentina.

The word is native from Spain and let me tell you why: 
Hunters (like myself) distinguish and differenciate the trophy attained when you hunt a deer by the chips on the horns, thus ...

- 12 or more chips on the horns ---> "venado" or "venao" (take in mind that hunting game is not only known as "caza" is Spanish, but "Venatoria" too).

- Between 8 and up to 12 chips on the whole horns  ---> "Vareto"

- Less than 8 --> "Horquillón"

But take present that all these word refer to a sole animal: The Deer.


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## Lou7676

No se sirve alce americano y alce europeo?


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## WyomingSue

Yo vivo y cazo en Wyoming, USA.  También he encontrado muchas palabras para estos animales, algunas palabras son de Europa.  Se puede encontrar un sitio de la Comisión para la Cooperación Ambiental, que es un grupo de Canadá, los EE.UU. y México, y hay un pdf “*Regiones ecológicas de América del Norte”.   Al fin del pdf hay una lista de todos los animales, con nombres científicos.  Esta traduce “elk” con “ciervo”, pero estoy de acuerdo con Mateo19 que ciervo no es muy específico.  Quizás mejor usar * wapiti/huápiti.  Ralba, puedes google “wapiti” y verás que wapiti es un elk y alce es un moose.  ¡Claro que los dos son deliciosos!


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## jazzyj

I was also looking for the differences between elk and moose and recieved alce for both. I did a Google image search of *alce* and it showed me mostly pictures of *moose* with only a few elk mixed in. When I did a search for *uapiti* Google returned mostly pictures of *elk* and no moose. This would lead me to believe the _opposite_ of what Ralba said. By the images returned from Google, *alce = moose, uapiti = elk*.


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## littlegringa

Jazzyj, WyomingSue, and myself all agree:

Elk=uapití
Moose=alce

Lou7676 (No se sirve alce americano y alce europeo?) -- Los dos animales existen en Norteamerica, así que no sirven estos términos.


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## El Predicador

Deer= Ciervo o venado = _Cervus elaphus_
Moose = Alce = _Alces alces_
Reindeer = Reno o Caribú 

Irish Elk = Megaloceros giganteus which is a prehistoric animal similar to a deer with horns that resemble a moose. 


Uapiti = Cervus canadensis = elk


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## Jose Ivan

jazzyj said:


> I was also looking for the differences between elk and moose and recieved alce for both. I did a Google image search of *alce* and it showed me mostly pictures of *moose* with only a few elk mixed in. When I did a search for *uapiti* Google returned mostly pictures of *elk* and no moose. This would lead me to believe the _opposite_ of what Ralba said. By the images returned from Google, *alce = moose, uapiti = elk*.


 
I agree with yoy Jazzy, I think rapla had them wrong. Although "alce" is somestimes used for both moose and elk (wapiti) in Spanish it's mostly used to describe moose, in the other "wapiti" or "uapití" is always used for elk (wapiti).


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## Colorado79

I know I have been told by a Mexican biologist who spent 3 nonths working in the US that "huapiti" (sp?) is elk, and "alce" is moose. But I think I also saw that moose, which only exists in North America, would be more accurately "alce americana," and the old-world European "alce" is actually the European "elk" or "red deer."


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## Karraspito

Colorado79 said:


> I know I have been told by a Mexican biologist who spent 3 nonths working in the US that "huapiti" (sp?) is elk, and "alce" is moose. But I think I also saw that moose, which only exists in North America, would be more accurately "alce americana," and the old-world European "alce" is actually the European "elk" or "red deer."



   I think translating _elk_ as _alce_ is absolutely stupid, and leads to misunderstanding. The species called elk in North America is _Cervus elaphus_, exactly the same which is called _ciervo ibérico_ in Spain (but a different subspecies). I think _red deer_ is the most accurate translation for the species in America (or simply _common deer_, as in Spain, but specifying that it's the American subspecies). 
   Anyway, it has nothing at all to do with _Alces alces_, the moose, which is completely different at first sight from the members of the _Cervus_ genus. 

   I think the best way to avoid confussion is:

   - Elk = Ciervo (americano) / or simply Venado
   - Moose = Alce


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## Colorado79

I agree that calling Elk "alce" does not make sense (stupid may be a harsh word, though). But I have seen them referred to that way at wildlife photograph expositions. 

Also, the Elk of North America are the same genus as the "Red Deer" of Europe, but different species (_Cervus canadensis). _

I would agree that it makes more sense to call them Ciervo or Wapiti (Huapiti), which comes from a native american word but is very much adopted into North American Spanish (at least in Mexico). But I don't think "venado" is a good word because it is a very general term for most of the species in the family Cervidae*. *In the Americas, venado (deer) generally refers to the smaller species of the subfamily Odocoileinae/Capreolinae, also known as "New World Deer," particularly the widespread genus _Odocoileus _(white-tail deer, mule deer), but Elk is very specific to _Cervus canadensis._


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## Karraspito

Sorry for the harsh word, I didn't pretend to offend anyone. 
The reason it does not make sense, in my opinion, is that there is already another animal called "elk" living in the same country and belonging to a totally different family, as you've readily explained.


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## spandph

Karraspito said:


> I think translating _elk_ as _alce_ is absolutely stupid, and leads to misunderstanding. The species called elk in North America is _Cervus elaphus_, exactly the same which is called _ciervo ibérico_ in Spain (but a different subspecies). I think _red deer_ is the most accurate translation for the species in America (or simply _common deer_, as in Spain, but specifying that it's the American subspecies).
> Anyway, it has nothing at all to do with _Alces alces_, the moose, which is completely different at first sight from the members of the _Cervus_ genus.
> 
> I think the best way to avoid confussion is:
> 
> - Elk = Ciervo (americano) / or simply Venado
> - Moose = Alce



Just went to Yellowstone with some Spaniards and had this same discussion. I think translating elk as "ciervo" is misleading. We have many mule-deer in Wyoming and Colorado which we call "ciervo."  Elk are bigger, and it makes sense to use the American word "uapití."  My thanks to *El Predicador* for including the word "caribú" above in addition to "reino" for reindeer (_Rangifer tarandus)_.


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## Zurdek

La diferencia esta en "Los cuernos", El "ALCE" (Moose) tiene los cuernos "como manos" y el "VENADO" (Elk)tiene los cuernos "como varas". El "CIERVO" (Deer) es el Venado joven


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## El_Magnifico

I consulted with renowned zoologist Dr. Becker and he suggests that we in this forum should come up with a word for "elk" as there isn't one in Spanish.  After much deliberation and research, he suggests "MUCHO GRANDE VENADO".  I like it!!!  Does anyone know how do we request La Real Academia de la Lengua Española for the incorporation of MUCHO GRANDE VENADO into the Spanish language?


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## Rodal

charisma_classic said:


> Alce is moose.  You might use "ciervo" or "ciervo rojo" for elk, since they are also called "red deer".



Tengo entendido que ciervo es un deer, not a moose or an elk.


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## fenixpollo

El_Magnifico said:


> After much deliberation and research, he suggests "MUCHO GRANDE VENADO".


This is not correct Spanish, so it would definitely not be included in the DRAE. However, *un venado grande* is a good translation of elk, in my opinion.


Rodal said:


> Tengo entendido que ciervo es un deer, not a moose or and elk.


Como verás por las respuestas anteriores, lo que se conoce como "elk" en los Estados Unidos es simplemente un tipo de ciervo.


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## El_Magnifico

An elk is a type of deer, but what the the word for "elk" in Spanish?  For example, a German Shepherd,  (Pastor Alemán) is a dog, but we have a word for it.  We just don't call all dogs dogd.  Heck! We have a word for "moose" (alce), but not one for "elk".  I still like Dr. Becker's suggestion of "Mucho Grande Venado".  And since this is to be a new word in Spanish,  we can write it as we wish,l.  So it is not necessary to say "Un venado grande" which can apply to any large deer.


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## Agró

El_Magnifico said:


> I still like Dr. Becker's suggestion of "Mucho Grande Venado".


Bromeas, ¿no?
"Mucho" *no *se puede usar delante de adjetivos. Se usa "muy".

Si no se quiere usar "ciervo", por ser excesivamente genérico, existe *uapití*.


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## The Newt

Agró said:


> [...]
> 
> Si no se quiere usar "ciervo", por ser excesivamente genérico, existe *uapití*.



_There goes the Wapiti
Hippety-hoppity!_

(Ogden Nash)


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## gengo

fenixpollo said:


> lo que se conoce como "elk" en los Estados Unidos es simplemente un tipo de ciervo.



The word "deer" is a general term, not scientifically precise, and covers a wide range of species.  The North American elk is known scientifically as _Cervus canadensis, _while the white-tailed deer, the most common type of deer in this continent, is called _Odocoileus virginianus_, so you can see that the two are from different genera.  They both belong to the family of Cervidae, but that family includes two basic groups, and these two species are not in the same group.

Translating the names of animals can be problematic, as reflected by the conflicting statements made in this thread.  Therefore, the best translation will depend on the specific context.  Sometimes it will be best to be precise by using the scientific name, and other times a more general name will suffice.  For example, in the context of a novel in which a hunter is hunting elk, there is probably no need to be precise about the species, so a general name will work well.  

Every American child knows an elk from a moose, but those species may be less important in other countries, so the distinction may also not be important.  It all depends on the context.


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## El_Magnifico

I disagree with not knowing which animal is which.  I am from the Caribbean and I had no idea what an elk was. I looked it up, and the translation was "alce", which is a moose.  So when people around me where telling me that they were hunting elk, I was imagining that it was moose and wondering why they were so proud of the big deer (elk) that they had shoot.  After all, they didn't shoot a moose.  So I think since no one has bothered to translate "elk" into Spanish except for Dr. Becker we should adopt his nomenclature for elk in Spanish as "Mucho Grande Venado."  Yeah,  it is not proper Spanish, but he is the only zoologist that has taken the time to name the species in non-scientific language.  

All I can say for using "wapiti" for elk is that if the native americans took the time to find a word to elk, and I am assuming one for moose, we Spanish speakers should do the same for the majestic "mucho grande venado".  Also "wapiti" sounds too much like "guapito" and elks are not that cute.


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## fenixpollo

El_Magnifico said:


> Yeah, it is not proper Spanish, but he is the only zoologist that has taken the time to name the species in non-scientific language.


So by this reasoning, we should change the name of "Elk" in the Merriam-Webster dictionary to "Much Big Deer" or "Deer Very Big". When you think of it that way, your suggestion sounds a bit ridiculous.

It's grammatically incorrect, you can't say it that way, and Dr. Becker's Spanish teacher would mark it wrong on his homework if he wrote it that way.


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## El_Magnifico

What we need to remember is that all words are made up.  Someone in Spain picked up a writing stick and decided that "lápiz" would be a good word for it.  Someone in England decided that the writing stick should be called "pencil."  So pretty much the first person to name an item gets to name it what he wants.  For example Dr. Glen Theodore Seaborg named element 98 "Californium."  Why?  Because he and his team synthesized element 98 in California.  A bit lazy if you ask me.  But he was the first to name it, so "californium" it is.  Now Dr. Becker is the first to take the time to create non-scientific terminology for "elks" in Spanish and he chose "Mucho Grande Venado."  Just as we could not argue with Dr. Seaborg, I don't think that it is proper to argue with Dr. Becker.  I also think that we should thank him for taking the time where others have not cared to correct this grievous omission in the Spanish language.


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