# ...بلوت من العجائب ما لم يره الراؤون



## ~sapphire~

Hello again,

  بلوت من العجائب ما لم يره الرآؤون ولا رواه الراوون

  I guess the root for بلـَوت (pronounced balawtu) is ب-ل-و if I am not mistaken.  I thought the usual past tense conjugation for verbs with a weak third radical is with a ي so the word should be بليت , but someone told me that it can also be with a و .  And come to think of it I guess I have heard صحَوت (I woke up) before (only once), but never thought much of it until now.  So my question is how often does this occur?  Does it only occur with certain verbs so can any verb with a third radical of و be rendered this way?

  Also, unrelated to the above question, but still related to the sentence how do you pronounce الرآؤون and  الراوون ?  They almost look like the same word, lol.  I just wanted to make sure I was pronouncing them the right way.  Please write it out in English letters.

Thanks again.


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## elroy

Hello, Sapphire, and welcome to the forum!   It's always great to come across dedicated learners like you.

I have no idea how often a و appears in the past tense of a verb with a "weak third radical" (whatever that means!).   As a native speaker I never learned these rules; perhaps one of our advanced learners could help you.

I can answer your second question, though: 

الرآؤون is pronounced "ar-raa2uun," and it means "the see-ers" (those who see).
الراوون is pronounced "ar-raawuun," and it means "the storytellers."


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## ~sapphire~

Thank you for the speedy reply, elroy, and the welcome.

My problem with the pronunciation was that I thought alif madd had an inbuilt hamza, that is, it is a combination a hamza and the 'a' sound, like in قرآن .  So I was unsure why الرآؤون would have two hamzas and unsure of how to pronounce it.  Thanks again.

A weak third radical is when the last letter of the root (the ل in فعل )is either a ي or a و .


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## elroy

~sapphire~ said:


> My problem with the pronunciation was that I thought alif madd had an inbuilt hamza, that is, it is a combination a hamza and the 'a' sound, like in قرآن . So I was unsure why الرآؤون would have two hamzas and unsure of how to pronounce it.


 To tell you the truth, I would have spelled it with a normal ا; like you, I see no phonetic reason for an آ. Are you sure you copied it correctly? 


> A weak third radical is when the last letter of the root (the ل in فعل )is either a ي or a و .


 That's what I suspected, thanks.  Unfortunately, I still can't answer your question.


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## ayed

~sapphire~ said:


> Thank you for the speedy reply, elroy, and the welcome.
> 
> My problem with the pronunciation was that I thought alif madd had an inbuilt hamza, that is, it is a combination a hamza and the 'a' sound, like in قرآن . So I was unsure why الرآؤون would have two hamzas and unsure of how to pronounce it. Thanks again.
> 
> A weak third radical is when the last letter of the root (the ل in فعل )is either a ي or a و .


*روى* past tense
*راوي* narrator
*راوون/رواة* narrators/storytellers(as mentioned by Mr.Elroy)
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*رأى* (he) saw
*رائي* "the seer/beholder"
*راؤون* the seers/beholders"

I hope these could help you out.


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## suma

~sapphire~ said:


> I guess the root for بلـَوت (pronounced balawtu) is ب-ل-و if I am not mistaken. I thought the usual past tense conjugation for verbs with a weak third radical is with a ي so the word should be بليت , but someone told me that it can also be with a و . And come to think of it I guess I have heard صحَوت (I woke up) before (only once), but never thought much of it until now. So my question is how often does this occur? Does it only occur with certain verbs so can any verb with a third radical of و be rendered this way?
> 
> Thanks again.


 
Third radical with waw or yaa are equally common. I can't say that one is more common than the other.

Consider:
دعا  يدعو  دعوْتُ
تلا   يتلو  تلوْتُ
شكا عنه يشكو شكوْتُ
رمى يرمي  رميت
حكى  يحكي  حكيْتُ
بكى  يبكي   بكيْتُ
then there is the unsual conjugation like
سعى  يسعا  سعيت

The book 201 Arabic Verbs helped me immensely.


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## ayed

suma said:


> Third radical with waw or yaa are equally common. I can't say that one is more common than the other.
> 
> Consider:
> دعا يدعو دعوْتُ
> تلا يتلو تلوْتُ
> شكا عنه يشكو شكوْتُ
> رمى يرمي رميت
> حكى يحكي حكيْتُ
> بكى يبكي بكيْتُ
> then there is the unsual conjugation like
> سعى يسعا سعيت
> 
> The book 201 Arabic Verbs helped me immensely.


*سعى يسعى سعيت*


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## cherine

Hello sapphire and welcome to the forum 


~sapphire~ said:


> My problem with the pronunciation was that I thought alif madd had an inbuilt hamza, that is, it is a combination a hamza and the 'a' sound, like in قرآن . So I was unsure why الرآؤون would have two hamzas and unsure of how to pronounce it. Thanks again.


I'd like to say that alef in raa2uun shouldn't be with a madd الراؤون otherwise it will be a real jawbreaker.


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## ~sapphire~

suma said:


> Third radical with waw or yaa are equally common. I can't say that one is more common than the other.
> 
> Consider:
> دعا يدعو دعوْتُ
> تلا يتلو تلوْتُ
> شكا عنه يشكو شكوْتُ
> رمى يرمي رميت
> حكى يحكي حكيْتُ
> بكى يبكي بكيْتُ
> then there is the unsual conjugation like
> سعى يسعا سعيت
> 
> The book 201 Arabic Verbs helped me immensely.


 
Hello suma,

I thought the 1st person past tense of verbs like دعا and شكا was دعيت and شكيت . I guess my question was can verbs with the final radical of waaw be written either with a yaa or a waaw in past tense conjugations such as the 1st and 2nd person? In other words is it more correct or common to say دعوْتُ or دعيت ? 

Thanks again to everyone for you help.


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## elroy

Definitely دعوت and شكوت.

دعيت (_da3eet_) and شكيت (_shakeet_) are colloquial (Palestinian), but I don't think they're correct in MSA.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> Definitely دعوت and شكوت.
> 
> دعيت (_da3eet_) and شكيت (_shakeet_) are colloquial (Palestinian), but I don't think they're correct in MSA.


 
In Saudi, we often use them ; دعيت  and شكيت
*She was invited دعيت do.e.yat
*I was invited دعيت do.ee.to

Both are correct in Arabic Classical and Colloquial Dialects.


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## elroy

ayed said:


> In Saudi, we often use them ; دعيت and شكيت
> *She was invited دعيت do.e.yat
> *I was invited دعيت do.ee.to


 Those are different forms, Ayed.

The question was about the 1st person singular past tense form (active voice) - _I invited_.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> Those are different forms, Ayed.
> 
> The question was about the 1st person singular past tense form (active voice) - _I invited_.


 
دعيت  is classical and colloquial dialect(active tense)


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## elroy

ayed said:


> دعيت is classical and colloquial dialect(active tense)


 Are you saying you would use it to me "I invited"?


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## Tajabone

I thought that : 

 I invite -> أدعو

 I invited -> دعوت

 As for دعيت , I only knew of it as a dialectal past form !

 ... Am I wrong again or is it somebody's else turn ?


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## ayed

*أنا دعيت إلياس إلى الغداء*
*أنا دعوت إلياس إلى الغداء*
*كلاهما صحيحان*
*دعيت : لغة من دعوت*
*يعني لك الخيار اما تستعمل هذه أو تلك*


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## suma

ayed said:


> *أنا دعيت إلياس إلى الغداء*
> *أنا دعوت إلياس إلى الغداء*
> *كلاهما صحيحان*
> *دعيت : لغة من دعوت*
> *يعني لك الخيار اما تستعمل هذه أو تلك*


 
Maybe *أنا دعيت إلياس إلى الغداء*  is a less common classical variant, but MSA (not including the odd variants that do have roots in classical Arabic)  is  * دعوت* 

When most speakers here * دعيت*  the assumption is passive voice.


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## طالب

Hi, guys.  I hope it helps if I provide some CA and MWA standards to help clarify this.


*CA and MWA rules overlap in this case.


There are three types of weak final-radical verbs, two of which behave identically:
*

ending _'alif_ (eg دعا)
ending _'alif maqsûra_ (eg رمى)
ending _yâ'_ (eg لقي)

*The behaviour of these verbs depends upon their root form.*

*1. Ending 'alif - دعا
*
The root of دعا is دَعَو

In this case المضارع takes *ــو* and becomes *يدعـُو*.

The اسم فاعل is داعٍ and the اسم مفعول is مدعوّ


*2. ending 'alif maqsûra - رمى
*
The root of رمى is رَمـِـي

In this case المضارع takes *ــي *and becomes *يرمـِي*

The اسم فاعل is رامِ and the اسم مفعول is مرميّ


*3. Ending ya' - لقي
*
The root of لقي is لـَـقـِـو

In this case المضارع takes *ى *and becomes *يلقـَى*.

The اسم فاعل is لاقٍ and the اسم مفعول is ملقيّ

Note that when the dictionary form takes ى then there will be ي in the past tense forms.

As suma pointed out, you can see this in the following examples:

دعا يدعو دعوْتُ
تلا يتلو تلوْتُ
شكا عنه يشكو شكوْتُ
رمى يرمي رميت
حكى يحكي حكيْتُ
بكى يبكي بكيْتُ

I think it can help if you look at the _masdar_ for reference as to whether the _mâdî_ will take yâ' or not: 

دعوة / تلو / شكوى
رماية / حكاية

As for the derived forms, their morphology makes them 'regular', hence ى in all ماض forms and ي in all مضارع forms!


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