# نوعية



## Andrew___

Does anyone understand what *نوعية* means in the following sentence.  I looked it up in the dictionary and it said "character/quality" 


قال ضابط رفيع المستوى بجيش الاحتلال إن الأجهزة الأمنية الإسرائيلية تقوم بجهود وصفها بأنها "*نوعية *وعمليات مركزة" ضد حماس في الضفة

Shukran lakom.


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## Harry Potter-Egypt

It means that it's *special* and *have no like*

there is a specific word for it in English,but I can't remember it now


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## tabyyy

Harry Potter-Egypt said:


> It means that it's *special* and *have no like*
> 
> there is a specific word for it in English,but I can't remember it now



Do you mean "unique" or "one of a kind"?


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## Harry Potter-Egypt

yes, both *unique* and *One of a kind* can work,

but I think "*unusual*" is better for the meaning.


anyways, I still think there's another word, but I can't remember


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## Andrew___

Thanks guys.  Perhaps the word "unprecedented" works best in this particular context.


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## elroy

"Unparalleled"?  "Unmatched"?


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## Mahaodeh

I would say "quality". My guess is that Arabic text is a translation and maybe a poor translation, I understood it as:

قال ضابط رفيع المستوى بجيش الاحتلال إن الأجهزة الأمنية الإسرائيلية تقوم بجهود وصفها بأنها "*نوعية *وعمليات مركزة" ضد حماس في الضفة

A high official in the enemy's Army mentioned that the Israeli security forces are doing efforts that he described as "quality and concentrated" against Hamas in the West Bank.

PS: not that my translation is great, but this is how I see it.


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## suma

elroy said:


> "Unparalleled"? "Unmatched"?


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## Haroon

Thanks to all posts. 

However, for the time being, I could not understand the relation between نوعية  and words like "unmatched or unparalleled" I really need someone to explain it to me  !! the nearest meaning I may figure out is "specific".


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## Andrew___

Dear Habiiby Haroon,

I am gathering from Harry Potter's comment above that the word نوعية has a meaning similar to "unique" I think. I think it is the same in meaning as فريد

However, we can't say "unique" in the context of the Israeli operations. In this context it is better to say "unparalleled" or "unmatched". Other examples include:

His skills are unparalleled/unmatched = no one else has the same level of skills as he has.

His strength is unparalellled = no one is as strong as he is.

I hope this helps.
Andrew


Mahaodeh said:


> I would say "quality". My guess is that Arabic text is a translation and maybe a poor translation, I understood it as:
> 
> قال ضابط رفيع المستوى بجيش الاحتلال إن الأجهزة الأمنية الإسرائيلية تقوم بجهود وصفها بأنها "*نوعية *وعمليات مركزة" ضد حماس في الضفة


 
Hi Maha, could you please explain what you mean by "quality". I was very confused when you said "quality".

Thanks,
Andrew


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## Ghabi

Andrew___ said:


> Hi Maha, could you please explain what you mean by "quality". I was very confused when you said "quality".



Quality as in "quality service" or "quality products", I guess...


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## suma

Haroon said:


> However, for the time being, I could not understand the relation between نوعية and words like "unmatched or unparalleled" I really need someone to explain it to me !! the nearest meaning I may figure out is "specific".



Haroon, as a native speaker didn't you understand  نوعية in that sentence to mean something like: *"A high ranking officer said that Israeli security forces would launch what's being described as a *نوعية* type of concerted action against Hamas in the West Bank"*
Meaning that it's a type of action not like others seen before it; which is what's meant by unparalleled or unmatched.


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## cherine

I didn't understand it either, and I still can't understand why it is translated the way(s) given by the other forum members.


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## Andrew___

cherine said:


> I didn't understand it either, and I still can't understand why it is translated the way(s) given by the other forum members.



Hi Cherine,

May I ask for clarification on what you're commenting on here?    Are you referring to the translations of "unparalleled/unmatched" or the translation of "quality".


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## elroy

Just to clarify, I have never seen نوعية to mean "unparalleled" or "unmatched" before. I suggested those words in response to Andrew's post in which he suggested "unprecedented," based on Post #2, in which Harry Potter-Egypt told us the word meang something like "one of a kind." I assumed it was a meaning I wasn't familiar with.


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## suma

elroy said:


> Just to clarify, I have never seen نوعية to mean "unparalleled" or "unmatched" before. I suggested those words in response to Andrew's post in which he suggested "unprecedented," based on Post #2, in which Harry Potter-Egypt told us the word meang something like "one of a kind." I assumed it was a meaning I wasn't familiar with.


It's still the same.
a one of a kind military action against Hamas = unparalled action...


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## elroy

You misunderstood me, Suma.  I was saying that my suggestions were based on the meaning given to us in Post #2 - a meaning I, and apparently others, were not familiar with before.  My suggestions are relevant only if that meaning is valid.


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## cherine

Andrew___ said:


> Hi Cherine,
> 
> May I ask for clarification on what you're commenting on here?  Are you referring to the translations of "unparalleled/unmatched" or the translation of "quality".


All of them. Apparently Haroon and I were not alone in the confusion, I see Elroy shared the same feeling.

The first word that came to my mind when I saw نوعية was "diverse", but I wasn't sure. Having seen words like special, unparalleled, unmatched, one of the kind... I got confused.

And to be honest, I wouldn't use نوعية as an adjective in the first place, so this adds to the difficulty I'm having to translate this word.


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## Xence

cherine said:


> And to be honest, I wouldn't use نوعية as an adjective in the first place, so this adds to the difficulty I'm having to translate this word.


I think it has the same meaning as in the phrase قفزة نوعية, which is sometimes translated as _a qualitative jump_.
Now, is it common for English speakers to talk about _qualitative efforts (جهود نوعية)_? I don't know...


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## Mahaodeh

Qualitative is the word I'm looking for .

In Arabic, it doesn't really make much sense, I just guessed it's a translation from English because I've heard and read such expressions in English but not much in Arabic though.  I think it's one of those "newspaper expressions" that people end up getting used to but not really understand because in proper fus7a and in dialects it's odd at the least.


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## Xence

Again, I have to agree here, Maha, about "newspaper expressions"...


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## elroy

Even in English, "qualitative efforts" is not a common expression. I'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean.

As for قفزة نوعية, the common expression in English, or at least in American English, is "*quantum* leap."


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## Harry Potter-Egypt

> I think it has the same meaning as in the phrase قفزة نوعية, which is sometimes translated as _a qualitative jump_.
> Now, is it common for English speakers to talk about _qualitative efforts (جهود نوعية)_? I don't know...



I don't understand the meaning of qualitiative, 
can you explain more??


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## Andrew___

Hi Harry Potter,

My friendly advice to you is to recommend you forget about understanding the word "qualitative" in this context, because I agree with Elroy that most people don't even understand what it means in this context (even assuming that it is correct English usage which I am not yet willing to admit).

In general however, qualitative means "pertaining to the quality of something".  We would generally use it in contrast to "quantatively" (meaning pertaining to a quantity).  It is a rather rare word.


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## SaiH

In this context, I would say that  جهود نوعية can be translated as 'specific efforts' in the sense of 'selective', 'well-directed' or 'problem-specific' in this case 'Hamas-specific efforts'. I think so especially because there is also the other expression عمليات مركزة and I think that this could be a sort of parallel construction.


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## Xence

Harry Potter-Egypt said:


> I don't understand the meaning of qualitiative,
> can you explain more??


 
Yes.
In addition to what Andrew has said, I would like to point out that when I talk about قفزة نوعية I really mean a _qualitative leap_ as known in Hegel's philosophy and, after him, in the dialectical materialism (about the Law of Transformation):


> This law states that continuous quantitative development results in qualitative "leaps" in nature whereby a completely new form or entity is produced.


Not in the sense of _quantum leap_ which, in the vernacular, only focuses on the abrupt change without any mention about the quality of that change.

So, in the context of this topic, I guess that a continuous amount of efforts has been done (quantity) before it led to a qualitative result (quality).
Just a guesswork, of course.


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## Harry Potter-Egypt

> So, in the context of this topic, I guess that a continuous amount of efforts has been done (quantity) before it led to a qualitative result (quality).
> Just a guesswork, of course.


This sounds good, 
but can you apply it to our main topic here
قال ضابط رفيع المستوى بجيش الاحتلال إن الأجهزة الأمنية الإسرائيلية تقوم بجهود وصفها بأنها "*نوعية *وعمليات مركزة" ضد حماس في الضفة


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## suma

Perhaps Harry-Porrter Egypt is the best person to sort this out since he was the first one to suggest the meaning *special* and *have no like, *which then lead to *unparalleled*, but now someone suggested something more like *'specific efforts' in the sense of 'selective', 'well-directed' or 'problem-specific' *

_"... launch what's being described as a concerted and pin-pointed action against Hamas..."_


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## elroy

Xence said:


> Not in the sense of _quantum leap_ which, in the vernacular, only focuses on the abrupt change without any mention about the quality of that change.


 That is not the way I understand the phrase "quantum leap."  It's not just about the abruptness of the change; the change is always an improvement.  You wouldn't use "quantum leap" if things took a sudden turn for the worse.  At least I've never come across the phrase used that way.

But the meaning of "quantum leap" isn't really the topic of this thread. 

So back to the topic: I think it would be super helpful to actually find out what the Israeli guy actually said, in the language in which he said it - which was probably Hebrew.


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## Harry Potter-Egypt

> So back to the topic: I think it would be super helpful to actually find out what the Israeli guy actually said, in the language in which he said it - which was probably Hebrew.


yeah I thought also about this, 
actually I traced it to Ynetnews, but since I don't know Hebrew ,I couldn't get it, anyway you can find the story here


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## Xence

elroy said:


> It's not just about the abruptness of the change; the change is always an improvement. You wouldn't use "quantum leap" if things took a sudden turn for the worse. At least I've never come across the phrase used that way.


Sorry for not sharing this point of view. As I understand it, there is no guarantee that a quantum leap will necessarily lead to an improvement. I even came across to the worst places to quantum leap to (referring to the American television series).



elroy said:


> But the meaning of "quantum leap" isn't really the topic of this thread.


I know, and I've never intended to talk about this topic. I only mentioned _*qualitative *leap_ as a possible translation of _قفزة *نوعية *_which is the thick of things of this thread.


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## elroy

Xence said:


> Sorry for not sharing this point of view. As I understand it, there is no guarantee that a quantum leap will necessarily lead to an improvement. I even came across to the worst places to quantum leap to (referring to the American television series).


 As you said, it's a reference to the series, whose title is a play on words; "leap" in the title does not refer to a change in the quality of anything (whether positive or negative), but to the protagonist's movements across time and space.  The common, everyday meaning of the phrase is "significant and sudden improvement."  There's a reason it's translated into Arabic as قفزة نوعية.


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## Faylasoof

As I understand, the word نوعية can have many meanings in MSA, including <kind / sort; quality / qualitative; specific / precise; generic etc.>

In the given context it would be the following: 

< نوعية وعمليات مركزة… = … specific and focused / concerted operations.>


Of course نوعية refers to جهود., so as SaiH says above, جهود نوعية = specific efforts.  Alternatively, <precise actions.>


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## Xence

elroy (about quantum leap),

I thought this wasn't the right thread for discussing such topic.
Why not open a new thread? I would be pleased to take part in it.


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## elroy

You're right, Xence; it is off-topic.  If I do start a thread, I'll let you know.


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## Faylasoof

Xence, I agree perhaps we need to open a new thread on the interesting points you and Elroy are discussing. The word نوعيةis used with all the meanings I mention above and at the risk of deviating from the original question I would say,قفزة نوعية often is tranlsated into English (UK at least) as <qualitative leap>*.* What that really means would require a separate thread, but here (in Andrew's quote) I would say  نوعية  simply implies <specific / precise>.


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## ayed

نوعية means فريدة في نوعها of its kind.There is no any action like it.It is unique.Loosely translated as "*A* *well-laid action*"


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## elroy

ayed said:


> نوعية means فريدة في نوعها of its kind.There is no any action like it.It is unique.Loosely translated as "*A* *well-laid action*"


 So we're back to square one - or, in this case, Post 2. 

If you are sure of this, then "unparalleled" would be a suitable translation: "Well-laid action" doesn't collocate because you don't "lay" an "action."


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## ayed

I meant *very well-planned action.*
Don't forget that _every action_ is usually described عملية نوعية .
Though they are different from each others.Thus, نوعية sometimes may be called فريدة  as well.


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## Andrew___

elroy said:


> So we're back to square one - or, in this case, Post 2.


 
LOL.

In conclusion, taking into account all the above views with the greatest of deference, I think the most likely translation of بجهود *نوعية *وعمليات مركزة is:

*"Targeted efforts and focused operations"*.

هذا رأي شخصياً بعد اتخاذ بعين الاعتبار كل الاراء والعوامل بالنسبة لهذا الموضوع، مع كل احترام لمن يخالفني

وشكراً لجميع على مشاركتكم
أندرو


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## Faylasoof

ayed said:


> I meant *very well-planned action.*
> Don't forget that _every action_ is usually described عملية نوعية .
> Though they are different from each others....



<very well-planned action> can be used to imply <precise / specific action>, given the context. So we are back to <precise / specific>. Why not use a simpler expression? 

... and I still feel <_specific_ / _precise_> would be better than <_special_> - ref. post # 2.


Andrew___ said:


> In conclusion, taking into account all the above views with the greatest of deference, I think the most likely translation of بجهود *نوعية *وعمليات مركزة is:
> 
> *"Targeted efforts and focused operations"*.
> 
> هذا رأي شخصياً بعد اتخاذ بعين الاعتبار كل الاراء والعوامر بالنسبة لهذا الموضوع، مع كل احترام لمن يخالفني
> 
> وشكراً لجميع على مشاركتكم
> أندرو



Yes, you could used <targeted> instead of <precise / specific> if you wish! Means the same thing here!


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## suma

Yes it does seem that we're back to square 1.
I admit that I'm relying a good bit here on the understandings of the native speakers who've commented and then I'm just offering a fluid English translation. That being said I've always felt that HP Egypt's original suggestion hit the mark, and later that _*unparalleled*_ was an excellent choice.
If we agree that the overall jist of the word  *نوعية* means something _unique of its kind, carefully calculated, special and precise_ then I think that unparalleled covers all that, in the sense that no other or previous operation had such quatlities.
Seems that part of the issue (problem) is that  نوعية  packs alot of nuance and meaning into a single word and to pin it down in translation is quite difficult without using alot more descriptive words.


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## Faylasoof

suma said:


> ...Seems that part of the issue (problem) is that  نوعية  packs alot of nuance and meaning into a single word and to pin it down in translation is quite difficult without using alot more descriptive words.



Precisely what I say in my post #33 above! ... and it all depends on the context and personal interpretations (all translations are interpretations) though some choices are better than others!!

I'm glad we are finally finished with this!


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## Xence

suma said:


> If we agree that the overall jist of the word *نوعية* means something _unique of its kind, carefully calculated, special and precise_ then I think that unparalleled covers all that, in the sense that no other or previous operation had such quatlities.


 
The problem here is that there are many other common words which may fit in the context without any ambiguity: فريدة، دقيقة، خاصة، غير مسبوقة، إلخ

On the other hand, if we look for other expressions in the Arab-Israeli context involving the word نوعي , we have for example التفوق (العسكري) النوعي لإسرائيل which is the equivalent of Israel's *Qualitative* Military Edge (QME).

Furthermore, the phrase "qualitative efforts" is explicitly used in a special declaration on Palestine:


> 6. We stress the need for fresh and _qualitative efforts_ to bring the Middle East peace process back to life and to bring it to a speedy and successful conclusion.


 
Just a few examples that may need to be taken into consideration.


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## Andrew___

Many thanks Xence for your thoughtful and considered contribution.

I personnally don't like "qualitative", because I don't think that sounds natural in English at all.  I appreciate the quote that you gave, but I also think that the quote itself shows a peculiar use of the word.

Kind Regards,
Andrew


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## Xence

You are welcome Andrew !

I am not saying that the word _qualitative_ is the best in this context, but I am quite sure that there is a close relationship between these words, especially if it's a translation stuff.

By the way, the French "_qualitatif_" is not that strange... 

Regards.
Xence


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## DWK

[Moderator note: please search the forum before opening a thread (forum rule #1) to avoid unnecessary repetitions. Cherine]

Hi All,

My problem phrase appears in the following bullet point in a PowerPoint presentation on things a Ministry of Social Development should do:

تحفيز إنشاء مؤسسات وجمعيات أهلية تقدم برامج نوعية لخدمة وتنمية المجتمع والفئات المستفيدة

So, I would translate this as: "Catalyze [or "Push for"] Founding of People’s Groups and Associations to Present [???] Programs to Serve and Develop Society and Beneficiary Groups"

I lean towards translating نوعية as "qualitative."  However, I don't really see that "qualitative projects" has any real meaning as used here.  But perhaps it's just meaningless bureaucratese and that's all there is to it.

Another possibility suggested in «المورد» is "essential" or "major."  I would like that better, but I can't find that meaning attested in my native-Arabic dictionary («اللغة العربية المعاصرة»).

So what do others think?


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## jack_1313

Hi DWK.

I think 'qualitative' is a fine literal translation of the term in this context although I, like you,  find it a bit redundant. However, برامج نوعية is a set phrase that commonly gets translated as "specific programs", which perhaps captures the meaning of the phrase a bit better.

جمعيات أهلية is normally a reference to non-government organizations or community-based groups, depending on the context, although in legal documents sometimes more literal translations (e.g. 'civil organizations') get used.

_Stimulating the establishment of non-government institutions and organizations that provide specific programs to serve and develop the community and the beneficiary groups_.

I'd lean towards 'target groups' instead of 'beneficiary groups' if the context permits it.


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## ayed

_unprecedented programs_


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## barkoosh

I think that نوعيّ here is a literal translation of the English "quality" when used as an adjective for "being of good worth, well made, fit for purpose" (_Wiktionary_). Google for example منتجات نوعيّة. You will notice from the context that it's the same as "quality products".

This use of نوعيّ is too new to be approved by and included in modern dictionaries. (Another example is the word عشيّة).


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