# Origins of the English verb to fare



## sethmachine

Hello everyone,
                     I was wondering if the English verb 'fare' was related to the French verb 'faire'.  In many places, the verb 'do' can be replaced with 'fare'.  
ex: How did you do?
How did you fare?

But:
How does the weather?
How does the weather fare?


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## trance0

I think the actual etymology of the verb "to fare" is Germanic. The cognate would be German "fahren" and not French "faire".


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## se16teddy

Yes, according to the Oxford English Dictionary _fare _is not cognate with Latin _facere_ and French _faire, _but is cognate with Latin _portare,_ French _porter. _Other examples of Germanic f corresponding with Latin / French p are: 
father - pater / père
fallow - pallare / pâle
farrow - porcus / porc
foot - pedis / pied


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## Sepia

sethmachine said:


> Hello everyone,
> I was wondering if the English verb 'fare' was related to the French verb 'faire'. In many places, the verb 'do' can be replaced with 'fare'.
> ex: How did you do?
> How did you fare?
> 
> But:
> How does the weather?
> How does the weather fare?


 
It is obviously Germanic and cognates exist in several other languages of this group. 

Examples:
DK, fare - to go, to run
DE, fahren - to go, to run, to drive


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## sethmachine

Then why can both English 'fare' and French 'faire' be used to describe the weather?


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## Forero

How would you use _fare_ to describe the weather?
_
Il fait chaud.
_It fares hot. 

_How does the weather fare?_ [I have never heard this before.]
Comment fait le temps? 
Comment le temps fait-il? 

_Quel temps fait-il aujourd'hui?
_Which weather does it fare today?


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## sethmachine

Forero said:


> How would you use _fare_ to describe the weather?
> 
> _Il fait chaud._
> It fares hot.
> 
> _How does the weather fare?_ [I have never heard this before.]  You've never heard of this before?  Its rather common where we speak English.
> 
> Comment fait le temps?
> Comment le temps fait-il?
> 
> You can't literraly translate the English example into French...
> 
> 
> _Quel temps fait-il aujourd'hui?_
> Which weather does it fare today?


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## Forero

Besides in the question "How does the weather fare?", can _fare_ be used in a sentence to describe the weather?  (All I can think of is "The weather fares fairly fair today", but that's silly.)


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## Sepia

sethmachine said:


> Then why can both English 'fare' and French 'faire' be used to describe the weather?


 
It is your language, you tell us ...

well I would not be too surprised by such things.

I could pick out other expressions from Germanic languages where the word for "run" or "go" is used in a sense you'd translate into "do".

Mentally they seem to tickle the same neurons because a modern Danish expression even uses the word "koere" which in some senses is the equivalent of "fare", but is also the word generally used for "run" or "drive"

You can say

Godt koert! (Actually: Well driven!)

means 

Well done! (and has really nothing to do with driving).


Besides, Germanic people brought the language to England, and they went by ship. I would not be surprising if they had described the weather with a word that also expresses movement.


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## trance0

Fare doesn`t seem to have anything to do with French "faire". It is clearly related to German "fahren". The old use of the verb "to fare" in English is the same as present day German use of "fahren".


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## Frank06

Hi,



Sepia said:


> Besides, Germanic people brought the language to England, and they went by ship. I would not be surprising if they had described the weather with a word that also expresses movement.


Most people get somewhere by moving, but what does this have to do with a description of the weather???

Groetjes,

Frank


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## ThomasK

I thought of this: there is also 'fare well' (which in Dutch sounds like 'vaar wel', and which suddenly reminds me of 'welvarend' (well off)). I could imagine the fare implies the idea of moving, travelling, also as a metaphor for changing... 

('Fare well' therefore means to me: stay well, despite all the changes) 

Couldn't that be the basic idea ?


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## Sepia

Frank06 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Most people get somewhere by moving, but what does this have to do with a description of the weather???
> 
> Groetjes,
> 
> Frank



The weather has a lot to do with moving ... an important element of the weather is the wind. To a certain extent also currents and waves. All important for moving with a ship.

Even thunder and lightning has a lot to do moving, at least when you believe that Thor is running around and hitting things with his big hammer.

On the other hand, various words for running or driving is used where it has little to do with movement. That is why I don't wonder too much about this.


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## ThomasK

You're right: _fahren/ fare/ varen_ in Dutch are quite different now.


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## Forero

French _faire_ in relation to weather has an impersonal subject, and the weather, or how the weather is, is the direct object of _fait_, not the subject.

Is "How does the weather fare?" the only English sentence that uses _fare_ for the weather?  I see the Germanic connections, and no relation to French, in this one sentence, but before I can say whether _fare_ sometimes or never has anything to do with French _faire_, I need more examples of it describing the weather.


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## Kanes

Its from Greek, where it means to carry something.


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## Forero

Kanes said:


> Its from Greek, where it means to carry something.


English _fare_ and Latin _portare_ (to carry something) are distant cousins.
English _bear_ and Greek _phero_ (to carry something) are distant cousins.

But, in spite of the similar meanings, English _fare_ and Greek _phero_ are not really related.

English _do_, Greek _tithemi_, and Latin _facere_ (the ancestor of French _faire_) are distant cousins, but none means "to carry something".  The Greek _tithemi_ means something like "to put something down".  Latin _facere_ and French _faire_ are often used where English uses _do_ or _make_.


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## ThomasK

Isn't this the half full/half empty issue ? Some people consider the fact of being cousins important, the others focus on the distance (I am a 'cousins' supporter)...


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## Frank06

Hi,



Forero said:


> But, in spite of the similar meanings, English _fare_ and Greek _phero_ are not really related.


Needless to say that I full agree. I just wanted to ad some extra information and links (from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language):
*bear*: PIE *bher- (also > Greek _pherein_, to carry);
*fare: *PIE *per- (also > Greek _poros_, passage, journey).

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Kevin Beach

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology "fare" is derived from the OE verb _faran_, which means to go on a journey. Its older root is in Goth. _faran_ from Gmc.*_faran_ based on Gmc.*_far_ and IE *_por_. 

It is cognate with ModGerm. _fahren_ "to travel"

The dictionary compares the Greek _poreústhai_ "proceed".

From "fare" we get "farewell" = "go/travel/proceed well/happily".

Fr. _faire_ is derived from Latin _facere_ "to do/make". I can't see how Fr _faire_ and Eng. _fare_ could be related, except by coincidental usage.


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## ThomasK

I apologize as for the link I seemed to suggest between PIE **bher* and PIE **per. *

I just wanted to suggest the different meanings of the PIE *bher are clearly linked.


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## Sepia

To support my theory - which till now was based only on intuition and common sense - that a word like "fare" that normally means to move in some way, can also describe the action of somebody or something, here is what I found in the glossary of an old Kentish text:

fara, w. m., farer, traveller: in comp. mere-fara.

faran, st. v., to move from one place to another, to go, to wander: inf

And especially this 

gefaran, to proceed, to act: inf. hû se mânsceaða under færgripum gefaran wolde, how he would act in his sudden attacks ...I think this is the oldest English we can find - so old that it was not even English yet.


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## Terry Morti

sethmachine said:


> But:
> How does the weather?
> How does the weather fare?



No these are both incorrect. Weather does not 'fare'. Weather may be 'fair', though.


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## Kevin Beach

If one were treating the weather figuratively, it would be possible to say "How fares the weather?" in the sense that the weather is an entity on a continuous journey through life.

After all, the phrase is used for many incorporeal ideas, e.g. "How fares the Global Marketplace?", "How fares your project?", "How fares the election campaign?"


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## Terry Morti

That would be like saying 'how is the weather coming along' something one might put to a deity thinking of inventing weather! Weather doesn't 'fare' because it already exists, whether it is good or bad, it just is. It isn't under any kind of developmental obligation.


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## the MASTER

"Fare" is Germanic.

How are you faring? = How are you going?
Two verbs in German that mean to go? - FAHREN & GEHEN.

Farewell = May it GO well for you.

Also, you pay a "fare" to travel or GO somewhere on transport.


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## macabre'

The root of "fare" is Old German most probably. There's the Old English verb "faran" meaning "to travel"/"to do a journey"  which is similar to the Old High German verb "faran" of nearly the same meaning. I guess the Anglo-Saxons brought it to the British Isles in Medieval times.

macabre


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## vestfoldlilja

It is correct that fare is Germanic, I would say north Germanic in its present form, as it was used in Norse as well.  It is still used in Norwegian, and probably Danish as well. 

Farvel, in Norwegian literaly means to travel safely/have a safe journey and translates to farewell. The far part means travel/journey and vel means safe. That is the meaning the different Germanis tribes brought with them when they crossed the North Sea. 

Aa fare, in Norwegian means to go (away). Han maate fare means He had to go, but Han maate fare langt means he had to travel far. 

It seems reasonable that it can work is the sentence regarding weather because te weather oftens decides if a journey goes well or not.


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