# un con prétentieux



## hampton.mc

The girl is speaking about a dinner:

"I had everything perfectly prepared and timed. There were eight of us. *Giles was a pompous prick* but still dinner went well.

Is there a better way to express "un con prétentieux" in AE?


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## xtrasystole

How about _'a smirking dullard'_?


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## SwissPete

Let's not get into anatomy lessons )), but I would tend to use "pompous asshole".


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## hampton.mc

xtrasystole said:


> How about _'a smirking dullard'_?


I will have to trust you on this one, I have never seen/heard it before. 



SwissPete said:


> Let's not get into anatomy lessons )), but I would tend to use "pompous asshole".



So you would go for the asshole over the prick  it must be getting late and my attempt at humor reaches ground zero...
pompous asshole it would be then


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## Nicomon

Can someone explain to me how _con_ can become _asshole_?

I thought _con_ was more in the line of_ stupid, idiot, jerk, dork _or (BE) _twat._
Whereas to me an _asshole (un trou de cul,_ en québécois_)_ is someone not nice at all... but not necessarily _stupid._ 

What do you think of : _conceited / pretentious jerk _or _pedantic dork?_


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## SwissPete

In the original post, _prick _became _con_...

When I suggested _asshole_, I also considered _jerk_, but it's considerably milder than _prick_, isn't it?


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## hampton.mc

I am not familiar with "conceited" and "dork"
The guy in the story thinks highly about himself and his choices, he is a mechanical professor at a local university and thinks that the sun is shinning out of his ass. but the other persons around the table just see him comme "un con prétentieux"


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## Nicomon

Pete, it occured to me that you had suggested _asshole_ based on hampton's initial suggestion of _prick_. 

It seems to me that I have a different conception of the word _con_. 

You asked for AE, so I suggested *dork* which has more than one meaning_._ A BE equivalent would be *twat* (but I think it's stronger/more vulgar). 

*Conceited* - which is closer to _vaniteux _- can be found in most dictionaries and is just a synonym of _pretentious_. 

To me, someone who's "full of himself" and thinks he's "God's gift to the world" is a *pedantic or conceited jerk*. 

I'm not saying that this is the best solution - especially since I'm no native - but this is what I'd say. 

_Pompous_ wouldn't be my first choice.


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## SwissPete

Given the details provided later in the thread ("The guy in the story thinks highly about himself"), I would go with _conceited jerk_.


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## hampton.mc

Merci à vous 
As it's happening in the States I think I might go for pedantic/conceited jerk.


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## hampton.mc

No stupid me 
This scene is happening in France, so BE english is used.
So according to your inputs it should be:
pedantic twat


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## Nicomon

Well...  while _twat _is BE, I'm pretty sure that _conceited jerk_ would work on both sides of the Atlantic.  

Then again, _twat_ may be closer to _con_.


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## hampton.mc

Thank you all very much for your very appreciated help.
I think I'll go for "pompous dork" (I have never heard "dork" before but it seems to fit the context)


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## Jack-the-hat

"pompous dork" is very much more AE than BE, which is what was asked for, but I would suggest pretentious rather than pompous for some one who thinks highly of himself.

In BE _Prat_ would be an alternative for twat, both being ruder than is generally realised, but in widespread usage.

By the way, a Mechanical Professor would be a robot, I think you mean Mechanics Professor, Mechanical Engineering Professor, Engineering Professor or Professor of Mechanical Engineering.

The idiom mentioned is "God's gift to the world".

_Smirking dullard_ is a brilliant phrase that I am going to use as soon as I have the chance, but would seem odd in this context!


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## Gwan

Not to, um, be pedantic , but I don't see "pedantic" - pédant - as being the same as "conceited" or "pompous" at all (even if they might often go together).


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## hampton.mc

Jack-the-hat said:


> "pompous dork" is very much more AE than BE, which is what was asked for, but I would suggest pretentious rather than pompous for some one who thinks highly of himself.
> 
> In BE _Prat_ would be an alternative for twat, both being ruder than is generally realised, but in widespread usage.
> 
> That's the thing... The book is aimed for Americans but the people speaking in this chapter are using EA. I guess all the expressions proposed would be understood in both languages.
> 
> By the way, a Mechanical Professor would be a robot, I think you mean Mechanics Professor, Mechanical Engineering Professor, Engineering Professor or Professor of Mechanical Engineering.
> 
> Well spoted, thank you
> 
> The idiom mentioned is "God's gift to the world".
> for "un con prétentieux"?  it wouldn't fit the context here would it?
> 
> 
> _Smirking dullard_ is a brilliant phrase that I am going to use as soon as I have the chance, but would seem odd in this context!





Gwan said:


> Not to, um, be pedantic , but I don't see "pedantic" - pédant - as being the same as "conceited" or "pompous" at all (even if they might often go together).



In fact the guy is up is own ass, he is not stupid he is just full of himself.


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## Jack-the-hat

I think it conveys the meaning quite well, but is rather lengthy. 

What do AE natives think of "Giles reckoned himself God's gift..."? or "Pretentious Jerk"?


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## Uncle Bob

Hello,
I realise you are asking for AE - in BE it can be expressed in one word "fathead" though I don't know if that is used in AE.
Also "twat" has been suggested by Nicomon for BE but that is very vulgar, referring to female genitals, and I don't think it would be used by someone who holds dinner parties.


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## Gwan

Uncle Bob said:


> Hello,
> Also "twat" has been suggested by Nicomon for BE but that is very vulgar, referring to female genitals, and I don't think it would be used by someone who holds dinner parties.



That's quite the statement!


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## BAlfson

It definitely would be "jerk" in AE, which literally means _"branleur,_" although the original meaning isn't known to many if not most.

When I imagine the situation, and view the body language, I think it has to be "pretentious."

Cheers - Bob


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## hampton.mc

Uncle Bob said:


> Hello,
> I realise you are asking for AE - in BE it can be expressed in one word "fathead" though I don't know if that is used in AE.
> Also "twat" has been suggested by Nicomon for BE but that is very vulgar, referring to female genitals, and I don't think it would be used by someone who holds dinner parties.





Gwan said:


> That's quite the statement!



I know I didn't realize it was that bad and I have used it before in the book


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## Arrius

*overbearing prick (*collocates better than* twat),* but is rather strong.

*jerk* is understood in the UK, but seldom heard in a figurative sense.
A milder expression*, he thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread*  would also express this idea, but is more AE than BE.


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## Topsie

BAlfson said:


> It definitely would be "jerk" in AE, which literally means _"branleur,_" although the original meaning isn't known to many if not most.


Not many French people know the literal meaning of "con" either! The best translation would obviously be "twat" as it translates both literally and figuratively, but it is also ruder than "con". The French use the expression "con" much as we (Brits) would say "twit" or "ass" (meaning stupid). I'm not sure if a "jerk" is necessarily stupid, unless he's a "stupid jerk"...


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## Jack-the-hat

Both _twat_ and _prat_ have the same original meaning, but are in quite widespread use. It is certainly quite likely that they would be used in an informal register by a young woman. Incidentally, _berk_ had the same meaning but has softened to the point of respectability.

Am I right in thinking that _Jerk_ comes form _Jerk-wad_? I think that it was originally an AE expression, but is now common to both.

Overbearing to my mind has quite a different meaning from the original idea of some one who over-estimates himself.

Is there a concensus (pun intended) emerging for _pretentious jerk_?


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## Topsie

SwissPete said:


> Let's not get into anatomy lessons )), but I would tend to use "pompous asshole".


 Or even just "pompous ass"!


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## Gwan

hampton.mc said:


> I know I didn't realize it was that bad and I have used it before in the book



It was more the idea that no-one who gave dinner parties would ever use swear/slang words such as 'twat'. Personally, I don't use 'twat', because it's a very British word, but I don't think it's that horribly offensive. As always, opinions on the offensiveness of various words may differ!


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## Jack-the-hat

Well, my wife often calls me a twat, but that may just be her (or me!).

Pompous and pretentious have similar meanings, but are not quite the same. I think that pretentious fits here better.


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## BAlfson

To any American that knows the word, "twat" is very offensive.  Someone can be pompous and pretentious or just pompous or pretentious.  Pretentious in AE carries, I think, the same connnotations as in French - at least, they're close enough that it never occured to me that they might be different.  "Asshole" would apply here, but, if that were the correct choice, I think you would have chosen a stronger word than _con_. "Jerk" still gets my vote.

Cheers - Bob


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## Nicomon

Jack-the-hat said:


> The idiom mentioned is "God's gift to the world".


 Thanks. I corrected the typo. I knew the idiom.  But no, hampton, I wasn't suggesting it as a solution. I said someone who thinks he's God's gift to the world is... 
whatever you end up chosing to translate _con prétentieux_. My initial suggestion (#5) was, and still is, _pretentious / __conceited jerk_, with a slight preference for _conceited_ (which I think combines _prétentieux,_ _vaniteux _and _suffisant_).  _Pedantic_ was just another option.


Gwan said:


> Not to, um, be pedantic , but I don't see "pedantic" - pédant - as being the same as "conceited" or "pompous" at all (even if they might often go together).


 I don't either, but given hampton's description, _pedantic _sounded like a possible option.


Uncle Bob said:


> Also "twat" has been suggested by Nicomon for BE but that is very vulgar, referring to female genitals, and I don't think it would be used by someone who holds dinner parties.


 I mentioned _twat_, granted, but I also said (#8)that it was stronger than _dork_. But then... _con_ can also refer to female genitals.


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## Pedro y La Torre

If Americans understood Irish English then one could say "pretentious eejit" 

I like "pompous ass" otherwise.


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## BAlfson

Just as with pompous, pedantic and conceited are completely different, but they are possibilities if _prétentieux_ is different at all from pretentious in English. So, I'm beginning to question my own understanding; is there some connotation in _prétentieux_ that I've failed to grasp?

Thanks - Bob


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## sampat1running

The translation I once read of Stephen King's "The Shining" actually started with  "petit con pretentieux", the AE was "pretentious little prick"


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## moustic

I vote for "pretentious prick" or "pompous prick" - just for the alliteration!


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## BAlfson

"pretentious prick" - perfect!


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## Arrius

*Overbearing to my mind has quite a different meaning from the original idea of some one who over-estimates himself* Jack-the -hat

I don't think so. Compare the following definition of *overbearing* from One Look Dictionary:

adjective
▸
an overbearing person always tries to control other people’s behavior and ignores their opinions and feelings

▸
used for describing someone’s behavior


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## BAlfson

Jack, "pretentious," for me, implies someone with an affected manner that's meant to give the impression he is better than he is.  He likely doesn't over-estimate himself at all.

Arrius, "overbearing" makes me think of Nurse Ratchet in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.  Definitely obnoxious, but not not at all pretentious.

Cheers - Bob


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## hampton.mc

Un GRAND MERCI à vous tous


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## Zyprexa

I love these threads about the seamy side of our languages. One learns so much! I think the first thing you have to say is that insults and obscene references are extraordinarily geographically sensitive. You just have to look at the discussion on the word "twat". 
In BE, twat is quite mild, equivalent perhaps to jerk  in AE. 
There is no best, or correct translation for these expressions. What you say and how you translate says as much about *you* as it says about the target of the slur.
One very interesting example I have encountered is the word "cunt"
This is a word that is extraordinarily vulgar when referring to the female genitals, in AE and BE. In AE (I am told) there is no usage of this word as a personal insult, but in BE the usage is odd. You can refer to a male, but never a woman as a c***.  If you refer to a guy as a c***, he is usually a psychopathic boss figure, who likes nothing better than firing people and hitting on the coffee-lady. Calling someone a c*** very definitely declares your antipathy, and perhaps your *fear* of this person.
And we haven't even opened the worm-can of the insult _à outrance_ which is affectionate in meaning, e.g. "my nigger."


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## Pedro y La Torre

Zyprexa said:


> You can refer to a male, but never a woman as a c***.



You can refer to a woman as a cunt in BE, but it's usually considered far stronger than when you use it for a man.

In any case, cunt is far milder on this side of the Atlantic than it is in AE, where it has almost achieved "unspeakable word" status.


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## hampton.mc

Alors que "con" s'utilise en France une bonne cinquantaine de fois par habitant et par jour (surtout dans le sud !)


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## BAlfson

> ... in AE, where it has almost achieved "unspeakable word" status.


Indeed, outside of couples that enjoy talking dirty in the bedroom (a rumor I've heard), since the women's movement started in the USA, this word has become a pariah.  Two guys who know eachother well (or two drunks who feel they do), might say this to each other when speaking of a female that's particularly obnoxious, overbearing, complaining, etc.


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## xtrasystole

We've all heard that rumor


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## Pedro y La Torre

hampton.mc said:


> Alors que "con" s'utilise en France une bonne cinquantaine de fois par habitant et par jour (surtout dans le sud !)



Well, if you've ever heard Irish people speak, you can testify that we curse more than any nation on earth.


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## hampton.mc

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Well, if you've ever heard Irish people speak, you can testify that we curse more than any nation on earth.



Irish husband... not that bad (cursing I mean)


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## BAlfson

Pedro, I'd say the Aussies would win in an English cursing contest, but that you Irish would be a clear #2, even if MC's Mr. keeps it under control.   I think the world champs would have to be the Magyars though.  Once one of them learns to speak English, you understand that they have raised it to an art form!

Cheers - Bob


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## EdSteves

In response to the first post, I would say that _pretentious prick_ works fairly well in the context, in BE. As previously suggested in the thread, you could use _twat_, although in my eyes this is seen as less vulgar than _prick_ in England.

If you want to butcher the sentence a bit, you could say use one of several idiomatic phrases:

_Giles thought he was God's gift_
_Giles thought he was the bee's knees_ (a bit old-fashioned)
_Giles thought he was the dog's bollocks_ (somewhat stronger than the others, although it is my favourite of the three )


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## Arrius

*You can refer to a woman as a cunt in BE Pedro de la Torre*

I would have denied this a year ago, but it appears that recently this AE usage has unfortunately been imported to the UK. I suppose you could say it's synecdoche, like _all hands on deck!_


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## Jack-the-hat

I can't seem to leave this thread alone!

Yes, while one could use the term cunt for a woman, it would probably be as offensive as one could get. Only one time have I heard a woman use this term to describe another, and I think that she was being deliberately provocative.

In terms of synecdoce, there is an advertising term for the stereotype of two women in a kitchen discussing cleaning products etc, which is 2CK.

On the theme of the OP, were it BE I would suggest _Pretentious Pillock_, same original meaning as prick, but now much softer in tone.

Something that may work in both AE and BE could perhaps be _Pretentious Dickhead_.


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## hampton.mc

Jack-the-hat said:


> I can't seem to leave this thread alone!
> 
> Something that may work in both AE and BE could perhaps be _Pretentious Dickhead_.



Dickhead is a good one. Isn't it a bit stronger than prick?


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## Jack-the-hat

I would say that dickhead was slightly milder than prick in BE. I'll leave it for the AE natives to comment though!


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## hampton.mc

I find it awfully difficult to weigh this kind of words in English, each time I try to use any of them I am told that "je suis à côté de la plaque" (I have the wrong end of the stick?) 
This thread is bound to help me though


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## Zyprexa

Threads of this kind seem to acquire a life of their own. One could call  them _perpetuum mobile._


> You can refer to a woman as a cunt in BE, but it's usually considered  far stronger than when you use it for a man.


 Thank goodness I'm going out of town today and I can go cold turkey on it.  Today I just have to respond to Pedro:

Yes, you can indeed refer to a woman as a cunt, but that automatically adds a very male, testosterone-enriched quality to her persona. A woman cunt is almost a man!  In Labourite circles, a certain PM might have been thus described. (By the way, that's just a fact, not something I would condone or relish. Stooping to this kind of name-calling denotes severe intellectual poverty. -- _Moderator can remove at will!_)

So. A woman cunt is like a *man*, Domineering, vicious, narcissistic.

Uh Oh. . .

I'm hoping this thread might have exhausted itself before I come back to town!


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