# einfältig, schlicht, unprätentiös



## Löwenfrau

Hallo!

I wonder if the words "einfältig" and "schlicht" mean Engl. "simple" in a positive and/or a derogatory connotation. In Portuguese, we have: 
1) a word that means exactly "simple": _simples, _and it can be used in a neuter, in a positive, or in a negative sense;
2) a derogatory word: _simplório_, which is always derogatory and corresponds, I think, to Eng. "simplistic" and "simpleton";
3) finally, a word which is used* exclusively *for good connotations: _singelo_; example: if I say "John gave her a [singelo] gift", that means he was very kind and sincere in his intention, without any sort of artifices, and his act simply flowed from his heart. It's a very beautiful word, actually.

I would like to know if one of the German words in the semantic spectrum of "simple" corresponds to meaning 3 (an exclusively positive meaning).

Thanks!


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## Kajjo

Duden gives for "einfältig":



> 1. arglos-gutmütig; ohne Argwohn, nicht schlau oder raffiniert
> 2. geistig etwas beschränkt, wenig geistreich, nicht sehr scharfsinnig



Nowadays almost exclusively meaning 2 is used, mostly with derogatory connotation, or at least meant as negative description. However, very simple, non-educated but kind people could be described as "einfältig" using meaning 1 without derogatory connotation, though, but it is never really positive.

I believe, Englisch "simple-minded" comes very close to "einfältig". 

Many people use "einfältig" simply as somewhat more polite word for "dumm, blöde, beschränkt", which are openly derogatory. 

"Schlicht" with regards to people is quite close to "einfältig", but less derogatory, more stating a negative property in somewhat neutral terms. However, it is far from positive.

to 1: Use "einfach" in German. It has all possible interpretations, too.

to 2: dumm, blöde, beschränkt, primitiv, hirnlos, töricht, tumb

to 3: I can think of no word... hm. Adding "ganz" make "einfach" more positive, less offending, e.g. _"Er war ein ganz einfacher Mann, aber er wusste seine Interesse zu wahren"._


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## HilfswilligerGenosse

@Kajjo: "Einfältig" using meaning 2 given by the Duden is very much the right word for Nr. 2 of the question. Your suggestions are all more or less, but all are more offensive than "einfältig". 

I must admit that "dumm" is quite common nowadays, but still can be offending to the person being called this. 

"blöd(e)", and even more so "beschränkt", "tumb" and "hirnlos" are really... offensive. Especially "hirnlos" should only be used in a spontaneous rage about a _certain_ action and is much more strong than even "beschränkt". 
"Tumb" is very specific and probably dated, but e.g. appropriate in _der tumbe Pöbel_ speaking about the right-wing mob attacking asylum seekers' homes in former East Germany. 
"beschränkt" on the other hand refers more to a general state of a person. It literally means "limited" or "restricted", and that is also what it shall express: the person is (mentally) "limited". In general. The same is associated with "primitiv", which is also why you should never talk about "primitive Völker/Stämme" in reference to indigenous peoples. 
"Töricht" is not so much offensive as dated and rather poetic. It also, in my opinion (nowadays?) has a somewhat restricted meaning, referring not to general stupidity but to the lack of ability to judge the consequences/risks of an act or a behaviour.


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## ger4

As for (3), perhaps _unprätentiös_ would be an option... but apart from that, looking for a 'native' German adjective, I could only think of _bodenständig_ ('down to earth') - although it may have similar connotations as _bieder_, _schlicht_ etc. On the other hand, describing the design of a product as _schlicht_, the associations could be quite positive (thinking of expressions like 'schlichte Schönheit') but of course it depends on context and expectations...


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## bearded

Hi LF
Based on your explanation of the meaning of 'singelo', I would suggest
John gave her a (singelo) gift = _John gab/machte ihr ganz spontan ein Geschenk._


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## JClaudeK

oder
John gab  ein bescheidenes (von Herzen kommendes) Geschenk.


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## bearded

Not to be polemic, but ''ein bescheidenes Geschenk'' sounds like 'a poor gift' in my ears.


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## ger4

On www.portuguesedictionary.net one of the translations for 'singelo' is 'unassuming' -  which made me think of 'unaufdringlich'.


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## elroy

Holger, I really liked your _unprätentiös_!  Does _unaufdringlich_ have the same connotations?  Can you say "ein unaufdringliches Geschenk"?


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## ger4

It's possible to describe a present as _unaufdringlich_ but I think in this context it would sound too formal: "John überreichte ihr ein unaufdringliches Geschenk..."

Perhaps _ganz spontan_ (as BM suggested) would be a better option. Even though the literal meaning is different, I think it's much easier to imagine the sentence in an informal conversation. The connotations would probably be similar (John didn't make much 'fuss' about it, he wasn't trying to impress her, didn't want to embarrass  her etc...)


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## JClaudeK

Auch ein Diamantring kann ein "ganz spontanes" Geschenk sein. Es kommt auf den Geldbeutel an ....


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## ger4

Theoretisch wäre _ein kleines Geschenk_ möglich - andererseits könnte der besagte Diamantring natürlich auch klein sein...


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## elroy

Ich bin nach wie vor für Holgers "unprätentiös". Das drückt eigentlich alles eindeutig aus. "Spontan" und "klein" sind etwas anderes. 

Warum soll man nach anderen Übersetzungen suchen, wenn diese so gut passt? Wie man auf Englisch so schön sagt, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".


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## JClaudeK

Löwenfrau said:


> 3) finally, a word which is used exclusively for good connotations: _singelo_; example: if I say "John gave her a [singelo] gift", that means he was *very kind and sincere in his intention, without any sort of artifices*, and his act simply flowed from his heart. It's a very beautiful word, actually.


Wenn ich mir Löwenfraus OP nochmal anschaue, finde ich, dass "ein *schlichtes* Geschenk" ihrer Beschreibung am besten entspricht.


> schlicht
> ohne Aufwand, ohne überflüssiges Beiwerk
> http://www.dwds.de/?qu=schlicht


"unprätentiös" empfinde ich als zu .... prätentiös.


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## ger4

^ Also schlicht und einfach: "ein schlichtes Geschenk"... Andererseits wäre John wahrscheinlich nicht begeistert davon, als 'schlicht' bezeichnet zu werden - siehe #2:


Kajjo said:


> [...] "Schlicht" with regards to people is quite close to "einfältig", but less derogatory, more stating a negative property in somewhat neutral terms. However, it is far from positive. [...]


Ob das etwas prätentiöse 'unprätentiös' besser passen würde, hängt wahrscheinlich vom Zusammenhang ab...


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## JClaudeK

Kajjo said:


> "Schlicht" with regards to people is quite close to "einfältig", but less derogatory, more stating a negative property in somewhat neutral terms. However, it is far from positive.


it is far from positive 
"Sie trägt ein schlichtes Kleid." (z.B.) ist (meistens) ein Kompliment!
oder
_ein Kostüm von schlichter Eleganz
http://www.dwds.de/?qu=schlicht
https://www.google.fr/#q="schlichter+Eleganz"_


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## ger4

^ Nicht die Trägerin ist schlicht, sondern das Kleid


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## JClaudeK

Ich habe Kajjos _"schlicht" with regards to people" _nicht beachtet, stimmt.



Holger2014 said:


> Andererseits wäre John wahrscheinlich nicht begeistert davon, als 'schlicht' bezeichnet zu werden


Nicht John ist schlicht, sondern das Geschenk: _"John gave her a [singelo] gift"_


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## Löwenfrau

Some of the options you are giving are quite fitting to certain cases. But I think there really isn't a perfect correspondent. Some options, like



Holger2014 said:


> perhaps _unprätentiös_ would be an option



are negative expessions (*un*prätentiös). Following JClaudek's joke in #14, I would prefere a more simple word!

F. Schiller uses "einfach" in the sense of (3):

"Sobald wir aber Ursache haben, zu glauben, daß die kindische Einfalt zugleich eine kindliche sei, daß folglich nicht Unverstand, nicht Unvermögen, sondern eine höhere _(praktische)_ Stärke, ein Herz voll Unschuld und Wahrheit, die Quelle davon sei, welches die Hilfe der Kunst aus innrer Größe verschmähte, so ist jener Triumph des Verstandes vorbei, und der Spott über die Einfältigkeit geht in Bewunderung der Einfachheit über."

But as you already pointed out, "einfach" doesn't _necessarily_ have such a good connotation...


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## ger4

JClaudeK said:


> [...] Nicht John ist schlicht, sondern das Geschenk: _"John gave her a [singelo] gift"_


I didn't want to split hair but thought this could serve as an example for how differently the same adjective can be perceived depending  on whether it describes...
... a thing ("ein schlichtes Geschenk"),
... or a person ("der schlichte John");

... or something abstract, often as a noun ("das Schlichte, die Schlichtheit, das Einfache, die Einfachheit", ...):


Löwenfrau said:


> [...] F. Schiller uses "einfach" in the sense of (3):
> 
> "Sobald wir aber Ursache haben, zu glauben, daß die kindische Einfalt zugleich eine kindliche sei, daß folglich nicht Unverstand, nicht Unvermögen, sondern eine höhere _(praktische)_ Stärke, ein Herz voll Unschuld und Wahrheit, die Quelle davon sei, welches die Hilfe der Kunst aus innrer Größe verschmähte, so ist jener Triumph des Verstandes vorbei, und der Spott über die Einfältigkeit geht in Bewunderung der Einfachheit über." [...]


In this example it's also quite obvious that "einfältig / Einfältigkeit" tends to be more negative than "einfach / Einfachheit" (mentioned in #2 and #3).


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## Löwenfrau

Holger2014 said:


> I didn't want to split hair but thought this could serve as an example for how differently the same adjective can be perceived depending  on whether it describes...
> ... a thing ("ein schlichtes Geschenk"),
> ... or a person ("der schlichte John");
> 
> ... or something abstract, often as a noun ("das Schlichte, die Schlichtheit, das Einfache, die Einfachheit", ...):
> In this example it's also quite obvious that "einfältig / Einfältigkeit" tends to be more negative than "einfach / Einfachheit" (mentioned in #2 and #3).


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## bearded

Löwenfrau said:


> Example: if I say "John gave her a [singelo] gift", that means he was very kind and sincere in his intention, without any sort of artifices, and his act simply flowed from his heart. It's a very beautiful word, actually.


Sorry, but in my opinion many of the misunderstandings - attributing the ''singelo'' quality to the person and not to the gift - were due to LF's explanation (including my ''spontan'').  Now, _ein schlichtes Geschenk _seems to be a very suitable expression to me, for translating  ''a singelo gift''.


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## Löwenfrau

bearded man said:


> Sorry, but in my opinion many of the misunderstandings - attributing the ''singelo'' quality to the person and not to the gift - were due to LF's explanation (including my ''spontan'').  Now, _ein schlichtes Geschenk _seems to be a very suitable expression to me, for translating  ''a singelo gift''.



Note that I haven't emphasised the issue of wether the adjective is good for the person or for the gift. The main issue has always been whether there is a word in German which means *"simple" always in a positive sense*. (Regardless of it can be applied to people or objects):

quoting #1: I would like to know if one of the German words in the semantic spectrum of "simple" corresponds to meaning 3 *(an exclusively positive meaning)*.


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## bearded

I regret if the wording of my criticism may have sounded a bit...too harsh.  Now I gave you my opinion: _schlicht _means in fact 'simple' (positive meaning).
At the same time - but it would refer particularly to the person - I confirm that my suggestion _John machte ihr ganz spontan ein Geschenk _would respect your intended meaning, though it is no literal translation.
The choice is up to the translator, as usual.


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## Löwenfrau

bearded man said:


> I regret if the wording of my criticism may have sounded a bit...too harsh.  Now I gave you my opinion: _schlicht _means in fact 'simple' (positive meaning).
> At the same time - but it would refer particularly to the person - I confirm that my suggestion _John machte ihr ganz spontan ein Geschenk _would respect your intended meaning, though it is no literal translation.
> The choice is up to the translator, as usual.


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## Löwenfrau

Only now I came to know the expression "simple-hearted" (a simple-hearted man) which is different from simple-minded and fits very well to the example of this thread...



Löwenfrau said:


> if I say "John gave her a [singelo] gift", that means he was very kind and sincere in his intention, without any sort of artifices, and his act simply flowed from his heart.



(just a curiosity)


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## bearded

''John gave her a 'singelo' gift.''/   >'simple-hearted ..fits very well to the example..<

I think that _simple-hearted _can only refer to John: gifts usually don't have a heart...


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## elroy

bearded man is right; "simple-hearted" doesn't work.

I think an English word that works pretty well is "unassuming."

I wonder if "anspruchslos" works in German?


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> I wonder if "anspruchslos" works in German?


Definitely not, unfortunately. "Ein anspruchsloses Geschenk" does not really work.

You _usually_ don't combine "anspruchslos" with things, because things do not make any claims, but only with living entities, their traits or abstract nouns. Sometimes you can personify things and use "anspruchslos" then. Depending on the speaker's perspective and situation, "anspruchslos" can be a neutral to positive description, in some circumstances it may be negatively interpreted, though.

_Peter galt im Freundeskreis schon immer als anspruchslos in bezug auf Essen.
Rüben sind eine vergleichsweise anspruchslose Ackerpflanze.
Susanne hört Musik, die völlig anspruchslos ist.
Bezüglich der Stellfläche ist dieser neue Fernseher besonders anspruchslos. <personified>
_
In bezug auf "Geschenk" würde ich dann eher "bescheiden" sagen, was ebenfalls als "unassuming" übersetzt werden könnte.


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## bearded

Kajjo said:


> Ein anspruchsloses Geschenk" does not really work.


According to dictionaries, as well as the Internet, _ein anspruchsvolles Geschenk _is a very common expression. Can you please explain why then the opposite (_ein anspruchsloses Geschenk) _would not work? Thank you.


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## Kajjo

bearded man said:


> Can you please explain why then the opposite (_ein anspruchsloses Geschenk) _would not work?


Sorry, I cannot explain it logically. It just does not sound idiomatic at all. It's not a common expression.


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## Löwenfrau

bearded man said:


> ''John gave her a 'singelo' gift.''/   >'simple-hearted ..fits very well to the example..<
> 
> I think that _simple-hearted _can only refer to John: gifts usually don't have a heart...



Yes, of course! John is simple-hearted, I meant. I was thinking in Kajjo's post:


Kajjo said:


> I believe, Englisch "simple-minded" comes very close to "einfältig".


because I don't agree John is simple-minded if gives an "einfältig" gift. I loved the word "simple-hearted".


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## Kajjo

Löwenfrau said:


> I loved the word "simple-hearted".


Yes, simple-hearted is much more humble and positive than simple-minded. However, "einfältig" is along simple-minded, not simple-hearted. Also "simple-hearted" can only be used with persons, not with things.


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## Löwenfrau

Kajjo said:


> Yes, simple-hearted is much more humble and positive than simple-minded. However, "einfältig" is along simple-minded, not simple-hearted. Also "simple-hearted" can only be used with persons, not with things.





Thanks


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## Gwunderi

bearded man said:


> According to dictionaries, as well as the Internet, _ein anspruchsvolles Geschenk _is a very common expression. Can you please explain why then the opposite (_ein anspruchsloses Geschenk) _would not work? Thank you.



I agree with Kajjo, of all suggestet terms, "anspruchslos" is the only I also would say: NO, definitely not, but like Kajjo, I also can't explain why exactly. It sounds to me somehow like "meaningless".

"Eine anspruchsvolle Arbeit" is a work that requires attention, care, maybe also passion. "Eine anspruchslose Arbeit" is the opposite, it's something you do without passion, you need not be careful etc. Applied to a gift, the gift itself seems to get these qualities, and it sounds as if the donor didn't care about it. At least to me it nearly sounds offensive to receive "ein anspruchsloses Geschenk".


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## bearded

Gwunderi said:


> At least to me it nearly sounds offensive to receive "ein anspruchsloses Geschenk".


 Whereas to receive ''ein bescheidenes Geschenk'' would not...? Thanks for replying, anyway.


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## Kajjo

bearded man said:


> Whereas to receive ''ein bescheidenes Geschenk'' would not...?


"Bescheiden" has the meaning of humble, modest, unassuming. This is not in itself positive applied to a gift, but can be seen in a positive way under given circumstances.


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## Gwunderi

bearded man said:


> Whereas to receive ''ein bescheidenes Geschenk'' would not...? Thanks for replying, anyway.





Kajjo said:


> "Bescheiden" has the meaning of humble, modest, unassuming. This is not in itself positive applied to a gift, but can be seen in a positive way under given circumstances.


 

Again I agree with Kajjo. I'm not a snob*  and am not offended to receive a "bescheidenes Geschenk", a modest gift, that's not a criterion for itself.

* Edit: That's not what you meant, I know : )


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