# again / back



## ThomasK

Dutch: *weer* (again), *opnieuw* (anew), vs. *terug* (rug = back). 

e.g. Hij komt _terug_ van de winkel (he comes back from the shop). 
       Hij heeft _opnieuw/ weer_ spruitjes mee (he has brought [Brussels] sprouts again) !

One extra question: is there a problem for users from time to time ? 

I have been thinking about those words expressing repetition vs. returning
because some Flemish people _(Dutch-speaking, that is, but speaking a 'southern' version of it ;-)_ ) keep using _terug_ in all cases, whereas they should not according to the rules. Some even use 'terug opnieuw', an incredible tautology. But it is true: it is not simple to distinguish between both sometimes..  

German: *wieder (aufs neue ...)* vs. *zurück* (Rücken, back). Correct ? 

French: *de nouveau* vs. *de retour* (though not as often used as 'back' in English, I think). Correct ?


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## Awwal12

Russian:
1. again 
a) снова /sn*o*va/ (from "н*о*вый" - new)
b) опять /opy*a*t'/ (probably from "пята", "пятка" - a heel, but of very old origin).
2. back (adverb)
a) назад /naz*a*d/ (from "zad" - a back part of smth., a rear)
b) обратно /obr*a*tno/ (from old Slavic "обратити" /obrat*i*ti/ - to turn; a loanword from the Old Church Slavonic; shares the same, very ancient root with Russian "вертеть" /vert*e*t'/ - to rotate, поворачивать /povor*a*chivat'/ - to turn).
Totally different meaning and use.


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## jazyk

In Portuguese:

again - de novo, novamente, mais uma vez
back - de volta


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## ThomasK

So I guess you are referring to 
- another time/ one more time - *mais una vez*  (I could have mentioned that one as well, you're right) - nog een keer  
- returning - *de volta* ? (turning - _volt_- as in _revolution_ ?)


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## Awwal12

By the way, in informal speech Russians sometimes use "обратно" (back) instead of "опять" (again), but vey rare. It is probably typical for some Russian dialect, but I'm not sure.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
Again is ξανά (ksan*a*), a compound word formed by the joining of two prepositions; ἐκ- (ek-, which becomes ex- when the next word begins with a vowel->movement from inwards to outwards) and ἀνά (a'na->again, anew). The new preposition, ἐξανά (eksa'na) describes repetitive action. e.g the ancient verb ἐξαναγεννάομαι (eksanage'naomae), means _to be born again_. In medieval (Byzantine) times ἐξανα- (eksan*a*-) lost its initial vowel (in colloquial Greek, this phenomenon is common. When the initial vowel of an ancient/classical word is not stressed, it is usually omitted) and became, ξανά (ksan*a*); thus, the ancient ἐξαναγεννάομαι, becomes ξαναγεννάομαι in Byzantine Greek. 
With the joining of ξανά with any verb, we express repetitive action. e.g. φέρνω (f*e*rno)->to bring. Ξαναφέρνω (ksanaf*e*rno)->to bring again. Δίνω (ð*i*no)->to give. Ξαναδίνω (ksanað*i*no)->to give again etc.
To express returning, one could say ξαναγυρνάω/ξαναγυρνώ (ksanaʝirn*a*o [uncontracted]/ksanaʝirn*o* [contracted]) lit. "to turn again", or επιστρέφω (epistr*e*fo) lit. "to take one extra turn" (from the ancient preposition ἐπι-e'pi->in addition+στρέφω, 'strĕpʰō->to twist, to turn)

[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
[ʝ] is a voiced palatal fricative


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## ThomasK

Aha, so you are using the same, or about the same word, don't you? I am quite amazed. So you would be using ξανα in both of my examples?


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Aha, so you are using the same, or about the same word, don't you? I am quite amazed. So you would be using ξανα in both of my examples?


Probably yes. 
I'd use "ξαναγυρνά" (ksanaʝirn*a*) for "he comes back from the shop"
and
"ξαναέφερε" (ksana*e*fere) for "he has brought [Brussels] sprouts again"


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## ThomasK

That might show then that they are somehow close, can be mixed up, although in other languages they seem quite, quite distinct, and hardly anyone seems to have a problem with it... Thanks.


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## Outsider

jazyk said:


> In Portuguese:
> 
> again - de novo, novamente, mais uma vez
> back - de volta


Also _outra vez_. These phrases and words are sometimes interchangeable, but I wouldn't call that a problem. They just happen to be idioms with very close meanings.


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## enoo

ThomasK said:


> French: *de nouveau* vs. *de retour* (though not as often used as 'back' in English, I think). Correct ?



Correct, "de retour" isn't really often used except in sentence like "Je suis de retour" (I am back).
(Actually, that "back" word confused me when I first started to learn English, because things are expressed in a different way in French.)
Often, in sentence where "back" is used in English, "r(e)+verb" is used in French. 
E.g:
I brought that - J'ai apporté ça.
I brought that *back* to the store. - J'ai *r*apporté ça au magasin.
Come here! - Viens ici !
Come *back* here! - *Re*viens ici !
He called her. - Il l'a appelée.
He called her *back*. - Il l'a *r*appelée.

(Note that a re+verb can also mean "again", like faire: do, refaire: redo/do again. What a mess =p) 

Encore (again/still) is more often used than de nouveau (again/anew)... maybe because "_encore"_ can fit in all the cases (when _again_ or _s_till are used in English) whereas _"de nouveau"_ can fit only in cases meaning that something is done another time. (And maybe because "encore" is shorter? )
Examples:
J'ai *encore* faim - I'm still hungry
J'ai *de nouveau* faim - I'm hungry again
J'ai *encore* fait une bêtise - I did a mistake again.


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## ThomasK

That is quite interesting: that the *back*-element is integrated as a *prefix* into another verb (just wait until the Fins come home from work [I suppose they'll have a case for that], or even the Hungarians !)
But _encore_: j'ai encore faim, to me only means that the action (...) is not repeated, whereas indeed in your third example it is pure repetition. Correct ?


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## enoo

Well, *encore* can mean either that an action is repeated (1), or that a "state" is still valid (2). To say that a "state" is repeated, "de nouveau" must be used (3).
(1) Il a encore acheté du chocolat. - He bought chocolate again.
(Il a de nouveau acheté du chocolat. - The same  )
(2) J'ai encore faim: I'm still hungry/in the "hunger-state".
(3) J'ai de nouveau faim: I was hungry, then not hungry, and now I'm hungry again.

(A 16th case for the Finns? =D )


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## ThomasK

So I was right, wasn't I. But the Finns or Hungarians have not got back yet, so it seems... Let's have a look...


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## farscape

Romanian:
Again:
- iar
- din nou: I'd say it's almost the same as "anew" (nou - new, din - from/of)
Back
- înapoi from în (in) + apoi adv. (after, from Lat. ad-post)

Later,


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*: The words are different, but they seem to share the root _taka-. _It always means something related to "the backside".

_Hän tulee *takaisin *kaupasta_. He comes *back* from shop.
_Hän on *taas* (= jälleen) ostanut ruusukaalia. _He has bought Brussel sprouts, again.

*Wiktionary *tells this about the etymology:
_taas_ = The lative (indicates movement to somewhere) singular of _taka_-.
_jälleen_ = Originally a suffixed (possessive) allative of jälki (= trace, footprint) – i.e. "jäljelleen" ("for/[on]to his footprint[s]"). 

And *I *tell this:
_takaisin _= The temporal distributive (indicates origin or repeating point in time) of _taka-_.

_Lative_ and _temporal distributive_ are adverb cases (don't ask ) because they make their root words adverbs, but hardly anyone studies them. They aren't very productive.


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## ThomasK

Really ??? Very interesting. Great information! (Are you a linguist ?)

I think I will ask for _ostanut ruusukaalia_ somewhere, but where on earth shall they understand what I want ?


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## sakvaka

Unfortunately I'm not, but I found an interesting website where the cases were explained (in Finnish).

You should try that in some Dutch/Belgian grocery store! _Onko teillä tuoretta ruusukaalia? Valmistelen yllätystä anopilleni. _Do you have fresh Brussel sprouts (lit. rose-cabbage)? I'm preparing a surpise for my mother-in-law. Ok, a bit off-topic.


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## Kanes

In Bulgarian

1. again 
a) пак (pak)
b) отново (otnovo) - 'from new'

2. back (adverb)
a) назад (nazad) - from zad, behind
b) обратно (obratno) - from obrat, a turning point


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## ThomasK

What a rich language ! Can you use 2a and 2b in quite the same contexts ?


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## Kanes

Haha I think I also missed the point of the thread, again and back are not interchangeable. For your question, yes. In some situation 2a and 2b can both be used but in many they cant. назад is more like to step back while обратно is to turn back. The second is more complete.


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## ThomasK

Could you put them in the two same sentences and point out the difference ? Thanks !


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## ThomasK

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
I just noticed something interesting: Maroseika pointed out that the most common word for _again_ in Russian is опять (literally "backwards").

That reminds me: do you use something like* 'back' (the back, or backwards) as a synonym of again* ? Of course in English it does not mean 'again' really... 

Dutch/ Nederlands: *de rug vs. terug* (_the back _vs_. back_) - but with us it should not be used  as a synonym of _again _in standard language. But it is...
German : *der Rücken vs. zurück* (not meaning 'again', only 'back')


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## Maroseika

As for the Russain опять, it means "backward" only etymologically. Nowadays no native can recognize this ancient sense. 
However there is colloquial (actually just illiterate though rather widely spread) word *обратно *(back, backward) used in the sense of 'again'.


Besides, looks like it is used in some Turkic (don't know which is used figuratively - again or backwards):

Kazakh - қайтадан (backward) and қайтадан, қайта (again)
Kyrgyz - кайтадан (backward) and кайтадан (again)
Tatar - кайтару (to return) and кайтадан (again)


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## apmoy70

In Greek we use the adverb «πάλι» ('pali) which comes form the Classical one «πάλιν» ('pālīn) with initial meaning _back, backwards_. Nowadays its primary meaning is "_again"_ but in compounds it retains its initial meaning e.g. «παλίνδρομο» (pa'linðromo _n._)-->_palindrome _(lit. "recurrence way"),«παλίμψηστο» (pa'limpsisto _n._)-->_palimpsest_ (lit. "scraped backwards")


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## Maroseika

apmoy70 said:


> e.g. «παλίνδρομο» (pa'linðromo _n._)-->_palindrome _(lit. "recurrence way"),«παλίμψηστο» (pa'limpsisto _n._)-->_palimpsest_ (lit. "scraped backwards")



Palinlexia?


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## jazyk

No relationship in Portuguese: back (noun, on your body): costas, back (adverb, movement): para trás. There is a relationship, though, between trás and traseiro or traseira (butt, the first usually for people and the second for cars, houses, etc.). Traseiro can also be an adjective, like back, as in the back part (a parte traseira).


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## Outsider

One way to say "again" in Portuguese is _outra vez_ ("another time"). Perhaps it could be argued that _vez_ literally means "turn" (compare with *Italian un'altra volta*)... But I'm not sure about this.


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## Tjahzi

*Swedish* doesn't exhibit any such usage.


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## francisgranada

Hungarian:

*hát* (noun: the back of the body)
*hátra* (adverb: back, backwards)


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## ThomasK

Thanks, all of you, but as for Swedish, T: what is the word for '(the) back' and is it not a starting-point for any derivations?


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## Mephistofeles

In Spanish:
"De vuelta" meaning "back" (retourned)
"De reversa" meaning "backwards"
"Ota vez" means "Again"
And "Espalda" is, the back part of our body.


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## Red Arrow

Tjahzi said:


> *Swedish* doesn't exhibit any such usage.


I think it does.

*only back:*
-tillbaka
-tillbaks (informal)

*both back and again:*
-åter
-igen

Vill du se filmen *igen*? = Do you want to watch the film *again*?
Han fick aldrig *igen* pengarna. = He never got the money *back*.

And then there is the Swedish word *återigen* = åter + igen...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


ThomasK said:


> Thanks, all of you, but as for Swedish, T: what is the word for '(the) back' and is it not a starting-point for any derivations?


igen is related with the English word "again", tillbaka with "till" and "back".


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