# FR: Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?



## unefemme1

Hi, i was reading this French text and came across this phrase (??). I researched online and only found it was the title of a song. I was wondering if anyone would knoow what it means though. I don't know how to go about translating it, so anyone's help would be great, thanks!


*Moderator note*: multiple threads merged to create this one


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## marget

What's that?


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## unefemme1

Is that all it means? It seems rather complicated :S I thought "What's that?" would be something like,_ qu'est-ce que c'est?..._


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## Cath.S.

_Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça = qu'est-ce que c'est_, but with a hint of reproof / shock / amazement:
What _on Earth_ is that?


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## marget

unefemme1 said:


> Is that all it means? It seems rather complicated :S I thought "What's that?" would be something like,_ qu'est-ce que c'est?..._



Can you give more context?


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## unefemme1

egueule: I see what you mean. Yeah, I think that might fit into what the text was about...
The context was just about the femininity/masculinity of French nouns. I just wasn't quite sure what the phrase was refering to.


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## Qcumber

Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?/! = What's that?/!
From a grammatical point of view, this idomatic question or exclamation is extremely difficult to analyse. I have never been able to reconstitute its generation. All I can detect is "est-ce que", the well-known interrogative adverb of French. I also suspect there is a cleft sentence or a pseudo-cleft sentence in the underlying stucture. In brief I'm stuck. If someone could explain me.


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## unefemme1

Oh, well unfortunately I can't remember the sentence that came before AND after this, so i'll have to find that piece of paper again and check. So far, the answers have been "What's that?", i'm guessing this is probably just another version of saying, "Qu'est-ce que c'est?". I'll wait for more natives to confirm this.


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## philfree

Salut!
Il nous arrive de dire "qu'est que c'est que ça?" pour marquer beaucoup plus notre *etonnement *qu'un simple "qu'est-ce que c'est?"
L'ajout "que ça" permet d'insister (mettre l'emphase) sur cette chose que l'on ne connaît pas (c'est la première fois par exemple) ou sur cette chose qui nous choque par exemple. Does it make sense ?


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## marget

Qcumber said:


> Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?/! = What's that?/!
> From a grammatical point of view, this idomatic question or exclamation is extremely difficult to analyse. I have never been able to reconstitute its generation. All I can detect is "est-ce que", the well-known interrogative adverb of French. I also suspect there is a cleft sentence or a pseudo-cleft sentence in the underlying stucture. In brief I'm stuck. If someone could explain me.



I've never been able to analyze it either.  It seems to me that we're missing the verb _être _after the "ça", or whatever might follow. and that we're making the utterance more emphatic.  I suppose the same is true of a question such as "qu'est-ce que c'est que la démocratie" or "qu'est-ce que la démocratie".  That extra _que_ baffles me and I feel as though there's an implied "est" after the term we want identified.


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## marget

philfree said:


> Salut!
> Il nous arrive de dire "qu'est que c'est que ça?" pour marquer beaucoup plus notre *etonnement *qu'un simple "qu'est-ce que c'est?"
> L'ajout "que ça" permet d'insister (mettre l'emphase) sur cette chose que l'on ne connaît pas (c'est la première fois par exemple) ou sur cette chose qui nous choque par exemple. Does it make sense ?



Oui, bien sûr!


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## emma42

English translation:  What is it that that is that that? (!)  J'ai toujours aimé cette phrase française!


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## Cath.S.

emma42 said:


> English translation: What is it that that is that that? (!) J'ai toujours aimé cette phrase française!


Hello Emma, 
you mean,
what is _this_ that is that that? 

I'm really embarrassed to admit it, but even though I'm able to explain the meaning of that idiom, I couldn't for the life of me explain its grammatical structure.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Je dis quelquefois pour rigoler une formule équivalente plus courte, et plus... XVIIème : "Qu'est-ce cela  ?"


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## emma42

egeuele, how do you know it's "this"?  There is only "c" apostrophe, so we don't know whether it's "ceci" or "cela", do we?  I don't know how I am daring to argue with a French person about their own language!


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## philfree

On pourrait même dire "Qu'est-ce?" tout court


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## Cath.S.

emma42 said:


> egueule, how do you know it's "this"? There is only "c" apostrophe, so we don't know whether it's "ceci" or "cela", do we? I don't know how I am daring to argue with a French person about their own language!


Ce n'est ni ceci ni cela, c'est _*ce*,_ qui pourrait être effectivement traduit par _this_ ou par _that,_ mais pas par it, qui n'est pas un démonstratif. Non ?

En fait j'aurais même dû écrire, pour être cohérente :
what is _this_ that this is that that? 
que est ce que ce est que ça ?

Edit
J'ajoute que cette traduction littérale ne sert manifestement à rien, sauf à faire sourire.


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## philfree

emma42 said:


> egeuele, how do you know it's "this"?  There is only "c" apostrophe, so we don't know whether it's "ceci" or "cela", do we?  I don't know how I am daring to argue with a French person about their own language!



 Mot à mot "Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?" pourrait être l'équivalent de :
"Quoi cela est que cela est?". So, "that" is better than "this". What do you think ?


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## marget

egueule said:


> Ce n'est ni ceci ni cela, c'est _*ce*,_ qui pourrait être effectivement traduit par _this_ ou par _that,_ mais pas par it, qui n'est pas un démonstratif. Non ?
> 
> En fait j'aurais même dû écrire, pour être cohérente :
> what is _this_ that this is that that?
> que est ce que ce est que ça ?
> 
> Edit
> J'ajoute que cette traduction littérale ne sert manifestement à rien, sauf à faire sourire.



That's why I always want to put "est" after ça.  Then we could say: "what is _this_ (or it) that this is that that *is*!

I think that we can translate "ce" as "it".  Qui est-ce ?  "Who is it?'


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## emma42

Merci, Egueule et philfree (!!).  This is exactly my point!  One is saying that "this" is preferable, while the other prefers "that"!  Oui, Egueule, je comprends que "ce" n'est ni ceci ni cela, mais tous les deux français ont suggeré "this/that" comme traduction.  Je suis confuse, moi.


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## Cath.S.

marget said:


> That's why I always want to put "est" after ça. Then we could say: "what is _this_ that this is that that *is*!
> 
> I think that we can translate "ce" as "it". Qui est-ce ? "Who is it?'


You're right of course Margie. I know that we usually translate ce as it.
I was just trying to be as literal as possible. It was pretty pointless; I'm sorry.


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## jann

Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?

Que = interrogative pronoun
que = relative pronoun
que = ??
I can't identify the grammatical function (the part of speech) for que.  And is it the same as in : Qu'est-ce qu' un rêve ?

Sorry to belabor this, but I'm just seeing if I can twist around what I already know to understand it in a new way


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## marget

It seems to me that que is a relative pronoun and I think it is the same in both cases.


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## Football Taxis

i'll just add that i thought about this too much, and simply accept it as idiomatic. but i'd like to propose a sort of different way of thinking about that last "que":

it's almost a comma.

"what is it, that?" 
"qu'est-ce que c'est, ça?"

but i just shake my head and end up with liking much better the less proper phrase, "c'est quoi ça."


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## Cath.S.

jann said:


> I can't identify the grammatical function (the part of speech) for que.


Tu aurais pu formuler ta question ainsi : « Qu'est-ce que c'est que ce "que"  là ? » . 
En revanche, je ne crois pas que l'on décompose _qu'est-ce que_, qui est considéré comme une locution figée et donc non analysable.
Ce qui ne répond pas vraiment à ta/la question, j'en ai bien conscience.


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## Nicomon

egueule said:


> _Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça = qu'est-ce que c'est_, but with a hint of reproof / shock / amazement:
> What _on Earth_ is that?


 
Funny you should say that. Reading the phrase, I immediately thought What_ in the World_ is that?  

As for exercise in futility, in my mind it goes like this :
_Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça = Quoi est cela, que cela est = What is that, that that is?  _

Et en québécois étonné... _Quossé ça !!!_


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Nicomon said:


> _[...]_
> Et en québécois étonné...   _Quossé ça !!!_


 
En français ça donne quelque chose comme "keusseu".


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## Qcumber

Qu’est-ce que c’est que ça?
Fiat lux! I may have found the solution. 
I'm afraid my demonstration requires a preliminary step with another verb than "être".

DIRE
A: Alors?
B: Je dis non. 
A: *Tu dis non? > Tu dis quoi? *
["Non" becomes "quoi" in the question.] 
B: Je dis non.
A: **Quoi est-ce que tu dis > Qu’est-ce que tu dis? *
[When the interrogative adverb "est-ce que" is inserted, "quoi" is fronted and becomes "que".] 
B: Je dis non!
A: *C’est quoi que tu dis?* 
[This is the cleft version of "Tu dis quoi?".]
B: Je dis et redis non.
A: **Quoi est-ce que c’est que tu dis? > Qu’est-ce que c’est que tu dis? *
[This question results from the introduction of the interrogative adverb "est-ce que" in the cleft question "C’est quoi que tu dis? ". "Quoi" is fronted and becomes "que".] 

ÊTRE
A: Alors
B: C’est une planorbe.
A:* C’est une planorbe? > C’est quoi? *
["Une planorbe" becomes "quoi" in the question.] 
B: C’est une planorbe.
A: **Quoi est-ce que c’est? > Qu’est-ce que c’est? *
[When the interrogative adverb "est-ce que" is inserted, "quoi" is fronted and becomes "que".] 
B: C’est un planorbe: p-l-a-n-o-r-b-e.
A: **C’est quoi que c’est? > C’est quoi ça? *
[This is the cleft version of "C’est quoi?". 
A further transformation is necessary for it to be grammatical: 
the second "c’est" has to be replaced by "ça".]
B: Je répète, c’est une planorbe.
A: **Qu’est-ce que c’est que c’est? > Qu’est-ce que c’est que ça? *
[This question results from the introduction of the interrogative adverb "est-ce que" in the cleft question "C’est quoi que tu dis? ". "Quoi" is fronted and becomes "que". A further transformation is necessary for the sentence to be grammatical: the second "c’est" has to be replaced by "ça".]

In brief, the key is the transformation of "c’est" into "ça" in the cleft questions.


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## Nicomon

Et du coup, je me rends compte que j'ai oublié "que ça", dans mon post 26.

qu'est-ce que c'est que ça = 
quoi est cela que cela est que ça =
what is that, that that is, that that. 

Je trouve ça plus amusant, si on met that partout.


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## sudest

qu'est-ce que c'est *que* ça=what's that?

Translation okay.My question is about the bolded que. What is the function of the latest que,please?


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## dasubergeek

"Qu'est-ce que c'est" means "what is it".  If you want to say "what is THAT", you need to use ça, but in order to insert it you need "que".  It means "that", as in "what is it that it is".

Which is why just about everyone speaking (not writing) would just say something like "c'est quoi ça?"


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## geostan

The *que* is merely a connective. It is found in similar expressions requesting an identity or a definition. It cannot be translated.

Qu'est-ce *qu*'un livre (QU'est-ce que c'est *qu*'un livre?)
Qu'est-ce *que* la philosophie"

As was pointed out, a familiar alternative is C'est quoi...? But here, no additional *que* is used.


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## Kerrie1611

I'm new here and I have a question about "qu'est ce c'est ca"

Does this have the same meaning as, "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça" only minus the "que's" or is it grammatically incorrect?

The context is in making a mistake and I'm wondering if I'm being asked "what is the mistake" or "is that all (as in, is there only one mistake?)"

Thanks.


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## geostan

One may not say: *qu'est ce c'est ca?*

The only possibilities are the ones given above.

Cheers!


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## Grop

nodoubt9203 said:


> Sorry for posting so late but I think a better alternative for "que ça" would be "but that" to convey the emphasis. Just my 2¢.



No, _que ça_ here doesn't mean the same thing as in, say, _il n'y a que ça_ (there's only that).


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## Roder51

_Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça = What's that there?_


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## Maître Capello

No, it just means, _What is that?_


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## Roder51

Maître Capello said:


> No, it just means, _What is that?_


 Right you are. I was not thinking. LOL!


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## CarlosRapido

Sorry to revive an old post - seems to me that there is a similarly convoluted English saying with pretty much the same meaning; "What is that there thingy?"


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## jann

CarlosRapido said:


> Sorry to revive an old post - seems to me that there is a similarly convoluted English saying with pretty much the same meaning; "What is that there thingy?"


Except that "What is that there thingy?" is colloquial and grammatically incorrect, whereas_ Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ? _is neither.


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