# Czechia/Česko, Česká republika



## Tagarela

Ahoj,

*First, sorry, Moderator Jana, for messing around the other thread.

Based on a comment by Čeština2008 on the word *Czechia,* that he said it doesn't sound very Czech to his ears. But I imagine that Czechia is an English word, the Czech one would be *Česko*. I have also read, in Radio Praha website, *Chequia*, in Spanish, and then, sometimes I use *Tchequia* in Portuguese. 

Which word Czech people usually use to talk about their own country? Is it only foreigners who do not like - or are too lazy - to say *Česká republika*? I imagine that, if the Czech Land isn't a republic anymore, or when it wasn't, it should be called Czech Republic, or, in History class about the past times, when it was a Monarchy, Česko perhaps is a better word. 

For example, official name for Brazil is República Federativa do Brasil, but no one uses it daily, the same happens for some other counties. 

So ?

Na shledanou.:


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## kelt

Hi,

they tried to intruduce Czechia as the normal short name in the middle of 1990s. Never succeeded though, because we all still stick to the long form of "the Czech Republic". There is no short name for it in English as it is the case in many other languages.
Albeit, we miss such a form, Czechia doesn't look to me particurarly nice.

If you are more interested in the Czech version, *Česko* is the normal short name for quite a few years now. And it is perfectly fine.
In the past the state used to be called *České země*, *Království české* or *Čechy*. In English and German derivations of *Bohemia/Böhmen* were the norm.


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## slavic_one

I most frequently use Čechach. (but now ain't sure if it's Čechy in some case, or a word for itself)


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## winpoj

*Ad Kelt:

"Česko* is the normal short name for quite a few years now. And it is perfectly fine." - True for most people, but there are still some (including e.g. former president Havel) who strongly object to it - probably the old association with Resttschechei.

"In the past the state used to be called *České země*, *Království české* or *Čechy*. In English and German derivations of *Bohemia/Böhmen* were the norm." - We should be careful here - Bohemia/Böhmen/Čechy only refer to a part of the country, i.e. excluding Moravia and Czech Silesia.


Ad slavic_one:

"Čechách" is the locative case of "Čechy", again not the whole country.


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## Čeština2008

Tagarela said:


> Ahoj,
> 
> *First, sorry, Moderator Jana, for messing around the other thread.
> 
> Based on a comment by Čeština2008 on the word *Czechia,* that he said it doesn't sound very Czech to his ears.



No, I said I didn't feel "comfortable" with it, i.e. it just doesn't sound "right". I know it doesn't sound Czech, because it's a shortened Anglicised word. 

Come to think of it, I've never heard anyone say "Czechia"; everyone says Czech Republic over here (some people still say Czechoslovakia, lol  ). I think "Czechia" must be one of those words which only journalists use 

In Polish, we usually say _Czechy/w Czechach/z Czech_, etc. We're too lazy to say _Republika Czeska_ as well


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## Outsider

I don't see it as a question of laziness. Other countries have single names, too, without dragging "republic of" or whatever around with them all the time. Slokavia, to give just one example, is commonly known as "Slovakia", not as "the Slovak Republic". But it's true that for some reason "Czechia" hasn't quite caught on, neither in English nor in Portuguese, although I've heard it occasionally.


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## Čeština2008

Outsider said:


> I don't see it as a question of laziness. Other countries have single names, too, without dragging "republic of" or whatever around with them all the time. Slokavia, to give just one example, is commonly known as "Slovakia", not as "the Slovak Republic". But it's true that for some reason "Czechia" hasn't quite caught on, neither in English nor in Portuguese, although I've heard it occasionally.



It's all about ease of use, I guess. 

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", 
"Zjednoczone Królestwo Wielkiej Brytanii i Irlandii Północnej", or 
"Spojené království Velké Británie a Severního Irska" 

really needs a shortened version, doesn't it. But Česká republika/Czech Republic is still quite short, and easy. I'll never use Czechia, I just don't like it. "Bohemia" is OK though.


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## Tagarela

Ahoj,

Well, as some have noticed, I do not think that *Čechy/Bohemia* is a good option, since it is only about half of the country. 
In Milan Kundera's novel _The ignorance,_ I've only read "Boêmia" in my Portuguese/Brazilian edition . I'm not sure if the book was wrote in Czech or French, but the translation was from French - anyway, it really called my attention - because it is about Czechs who left the country and then when they're asked about returning it's always written things like "Return to Bohemia" and I cannot remember to have rad the words Czech Republic, Czechia, Moravia or Silesia in the book. 

I'm not sure to which extent it's a matter of language or a matter of cultural and national identity. 

Winpoj


> * "Česko* is the normal short name for quite a few years now. And it is perfectly fine." - True for most people, but there are still some (including e.g. former president Havel) who strongly object to it - probably the old association with Resttschechei.



What is Resttschechei? I didn't understand this objection. 

Thank you all for the answers.

Na shledanou.:


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## magnus

Tagarela said:


> What is Resttschechei? I didn't understand this objection.



It is a connotation relating to the aftermath of the Munich Agreement in 1938 when Germany occupied parts of Bohemia and Moravia. After this, Hitler talked about getting the "remaining Czech lands" (die Zerschlagung der Rest-Tschechei).

In German, "Tschechei" was a shortened form of "die Tschechoslowakei". It is still used, but often in a provocative sense. "Tschechien" or "die tschechische Republik" should be used.


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## Garin

In 1898, even under the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, there was a sports club called Čechie (= Czechia), so I would never dare to call it "Anglicised word".
Truth is, however, than now it might sound a wee bit old-fashioned. "Česko", on the other hand, is in my opinion OK and totally acceptable.
The stupidest thing, though, is to use adjective "Czech" instead of name/noun "Czechia", as seen, for example, on the sports dresses or beer bottles "Pilsner Urquell, Czech".
My Japanese friend meant that we should be Czecho now, since before we were Czechoslovakia and Slovakia got separated, then. From the stricly "mathematical" point of view she was correct but somehow, Czecho sounds weird to me


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## sokol

This was discussed not so long ago in the English forum:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=805358

'Czechia' seems to have been used occasionally but never caught, it seems as 'Czechia' isn't used anymore, in contemporary English.

'Bohemia' (or German 'Böhmen') however is no good replacement for Czech Republik. (German 'Tschechien' by the way too is a very young construction and didn't exist at all before th split-up of Czechoslovakia, it was short 'Tschechei' beforehand - as a shortened form of 'Tschechoslowakei'.)


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## magnus

sokol said:


> (German 'Tschechien' by the way too is a very young construction and didn't exist at all before th split-up of Czechoslovakia, it was short 'Tschechei' beforehand - as a shortened form of 'Tschechoslowakei'.)



According to this article, that may be wrong. "Tschechien" was already used in 1876 as a German name for the country which the Czech Nationalists at that time fought for. But it is correct that the name was then "forgotten" and first after the 1993 Dissolution of Czechoslovakia re-introduced.

Link: http://www.collegium-carolinum.de/doku/texte/lemberg-93.pdf


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## Outsider

Garin said:


> My Japanese friend meant that we should be Czecho now, since before we were Czechoslovakia and Slovakia got separated, then. From the stricly "mathematical" point of view she was correct but somehow, Czecho sounds weird to me


He misses the fact that in European languages words often change form slightly in compounds. For example, we say "France", but "Franco-Russian", and "Austria" but "Austro-Hungarian".


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## jazyk

> My Japanese friend meant that we should be Czecho now, since before we were Czechoslovakia and Slovakia got separated, then. From the stricly "mathematical" point of view she was correct but somehow, Czecho sounds weird to me


Probably because of Japanese チェコ, pronounced Cheko.


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## sokol

magnus said:


> According to this article, that may be wrong. "Tschechien" was already used in 1876 as a German name for the country which the Czech Nationalists at that time fought for. But it is correct that the name was then "forgotten" and first after the 1993 Dissolution of Czechoslovakia re-introduced.
> 
> Link: http://www.collegium-carolinum.de/doku/texte/lemberg-93.pdf



Ah now Magnus, thank you very much for this link, it's the 'missing link' I was searching for a very long time now! (Not that I did try very hard because basically I am a lazy person, but this article finally has an answer to one of many questions filed as 'to-be-solved' in my head. )

Fact is:
- in Austria 'Tschechei' always was used as short form for 'Tschechoslovakei' (Czechoslovakia), as long as I can think of, and not necessarily with negative connotation though the 'Communism' connotation always was present in some way
- that nevertheless 'Tschechei' _could _be meant (and used) in a negative way, also in Austria of course, also was always clear to me
- this article confirms that 'Tschechei' also was used before Hitler, and also in a neutral way, not necessarily pejorative

Now this article confirms that the Czech Republik [or was it the author of this article?] was indeed searching for a 'neutral' name without negative connotations, and they came up with 'Tschechien'.

The reference to the confirmed use in 1876 however is rather academic: I did not only study linguistics but history too, and I did some extensive research on the Habsburg Empire in the 19th and early 20th century; and I haven't seen used the term 'Tschechien' - neither for the first Czechoslovak Republik nor for the Czech nation as such, without reference to a particular Crown Land or the later Czechoslovak state.

The author of the article seems to be of German origin (or at least has a German name and is writing for a German scientific publication), so I can't be sure if his article reflects only reflects some previous discussions in the Czech Republic (and that already the Czech Republic did promote 'Tschechien'), or if, on the contrary, his article was the reason for establishing 'Tschechien' in German language.

But this, in the end, is of no real consequences to reality where, in German, 'Tschechien' has stuck. (Even though 'Tschechei' still is widely used in _some _regions, especially in the ones bordering on the Czech Republik - e. g. in Mühlviertel, where I have my roots: only politicians there use 'Tschechien' on a regular basis, the people on the road use both 'Tschechei' and 'Tschechien', with the latter, slowly, gaining.)


 The use of 'Tschechien' in the late 19th and early 20th century on the other hand had no real consequences on daily language use and even seemed to have been marginal use only at the time. Therefore the line of argumentation in the article really is rather one of sustaining the 'political correct' view of of the author.
The successfull establishment of 'Tschechien' in daily use of German is another story, of course, as is the fact that in English 'Czechia' did not make it.


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## magnus

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences, sokol. No reason to doubt what you are saying there.


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