# Ever notice... (Do or Did)?



## Phoebe1200

Source: from Google
_*
Ever notice *how even the most mundane of trips to the store can be interesting if you do it in the presence of interesting people?_

I usually don't know which one is meant when the auxiliary verb is dropped, is it "*Do* you ever notice" or "*Did* you ever notice"?


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## The Newt

"Did you ever notice...?" (or "Have you ever noticed...?") is what's idiomatic. "Ever notice...?" is just a shortened version.


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## Retired-teacher

It's not clear which one was intended in this example, but I don't think it matters in the context.


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## Phoebe1200

So it can't be "*Do* you ever notice..."?


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## Vronsky

Since the whole sentence is in the present tense I think it should be  "Have you" 

 ADDED: Since the word is "notice" (not "noticed"), it's not _"have you"_ but _"do you" _


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## kentix

-- When you are shopping for fruit, do you ever see kumquats? (AE)

I think this requires "do" (versus "did").


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you for your answers.

Just to clarify, I just used the sentence in the OP because it's a forum rule to give an example but I actually meant to ask generally that whenever I hear "Ever notice..." in movies or TV shows I don't know which one is meant.


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## DonnyB

Phoebe1200 said:


> Just to clarify, I just used the sentence in the OP because it's a forum rule to give an example but I actually meant to ask generally that whenever I hear "Ever notice..." in movies or TV shows I don't know which one is meant.


Only the context will tell you that.  

Generally speaking, where "Ever notice...?" refers to a routine event _in the present_ (as in the OP example sentence) then I would say it's likely to mean "Do you ever notice...?".

It _could_ be short for "Did you ever notice...?" but when it describes a series of events which will have happened on a number of occasions in the _past_, then I'd expect "Ever notice*d* ..." as a shortened form of "Have you ever noticed...?


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you, Donny.

So it actually can be "*Do *you ever notice"?


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## DonnyB

Phoebe1200 said:


> So it actually can be "*Do *you ever notice"?


Yes indeed.  

Your original example, in fact, is likely to be:
_*[Do you] ever notice *(= whenever you go shopping) how even the most mundane of trips to the store can be interesting if you do it in the presence of interesting people?  _


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## Phoebe1200

Thanks.


DonnyB said:


> It _could_ be short for "Did you ever notice...?" but when it describes a series of events which will have happened on a number of occasions in the _past_, then I'd expect "Ever notice*d* ..." as a shortened form of "Have you ever noticed...?


And when it's "*Did* you" then how it's used?


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## sound shift

Phoebe1200 said:


> And when it's "*Did* you" then how it's used?


In my usage: When "the most mundane of trips to the store" are a thing of the past; when the person being addressed is no longer making these trips.


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you.

But I thought that the difference between using "(*Did* you) ever notice...?" and "(*Have* you) ever noticed...?" in such a construction and not just in the OP sentence was simply that of the AE/BE difference, like when Americans say "*Did* you ever notice...?" what they really mean is "*Have *you ever *noticed*...?".
Isn't that so?


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## sound shift

No. BrE speakers use both "Did you ever notice?" and "Have you ever noticed?", with a difference in meaning between the two.


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## Phoebe1200

sound shift said:


> BrE speakers use both "Did you ever notice?" and "Have you ever noticed?", with a difference in meaning between the two.


Could you please explain that difference?


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## sound shift

It's the usual BrE difference between the present perfect and the simple past. It's been explained in many threads.


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## Phoebe1200

Please give me some guidance.


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## DonnyB

Phoebe1200 said:


> Please give me some guidance.



Have you ever noticed any kids speaking with a French accent? _(= at any time in the past up to and including now)._

Did you ever notice any kids speaking with a French accent when you were at school?_ (= during a completed period of time in the past)._
__


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## SevenDays

Phoebe1200 said:


> Source: from Google
> _*
> Ever notice *how even the most mundane of trips to the store can be interesting if you do it in the presence of interesting people?_
> 
> I usually don't know which one is meant when the auxiliary verb is dropped, is it "*Do* you ever notice" or "*Did* you ever notice"?



It doesn't matter which one is meant, and it can be both, "do" or "did." The difference is in terms of "temporal perspective:" With _*Did* you ever notice_, the perspective covers the past up to the present; with _*Do* you ever notice_, the perspective is really atemporal, with no specific reference point, so it applies to _all_ times, including the present (except the future, because the future hasn't happened yet). Either way, the present _is_ covered, which is what really matters linguistically, for the purposes of the question.

And "Do you/Did you" can be dropped because, _pragmatically_, both _can_ be dropped. In English, untensed verbs can appear without subjects, and here you have the infinitive "notice," which doesn't show "tense." It is actually the auxiliary verb "do" which carries tense (do/does = present; did = past), and given that the subject "you" is dropped (because in context that "you" is meant, so we don't need "you" in the sentence), it follows that the auxiliary (which is "connected" to the subject) is also dropped. 

Without auxiliary support, _*Ever notice*_ appears untensed (again, the infinitive doesn't signal "tense"), so we _might_ conclude that "Ever notice" is _atemporal_, just like "*Do* you ever;" however, "*Did* you ever" is _also_ possible. If it doesn't matter which one is meant, then syntax doesn't worry about it (and neither should we).


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you, both.

I just want to ask if Americans ever use "*Did* you ever notice ...?" when they don't refer to something in the past but what they really mean is "*Have *you ever *noticed*...?" but they simply opt for past simple because they prefer it more to the present perfect.


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## Florentia52

I believe this was answered in post #2, Phoebe1200.


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## Phoebe1200

Florentia52 said:


> I believe this was answered in post #2, Phoebe1200.


I'm sorry but post 2 doesn't really answer what I'm asking.


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## Florentia52

Please clarify your remaining question, Phoebe1200.In #20, you seemed be asking if Americans ever use "Did you ever notice ...?" when  what they "really" mean is "Have you ever noticed.." In post #2, an AE speaker advised you that both were idiomatic.


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## Phoebe1200

DonnyB explains the difference in post 18. Is it the same in American English?


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## Glasguensis

DonnyB's answer in post #18 is about a different example than your original question. In the post #18 example there is a difference between the two forms, and this is true in both BE and AE. In the original example (because it refers to a general concept which is therefore timeless), there is no difference between the two forms, as post #2 states. This too applies to both BE and AE.


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you for the reply.





Glasguensis said:


> DonnyB's answer in post #18 is about a different example than your original question.


I'm no longer asking about the OP.


Glasguensis said:


> In the post #18 example there is a difference between the two forms, and this is true in both BE and AE.





DonnyB said:


> Did you ever notice any kids speaking with a French accent when you were at school?_ (= during a completed period of time in the past)._


What I'm trying to ask is whether Americans also would *only* use "Did you ever notice...?" to refer to something in the past which is completed?


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## Glasguensis

In some AE dialects the "did" form is used in place of the present perfect. Other AE speakers make the same distinction as BE speakers. But in the post #18 the difference is in practice very slim so I'm not sure one would really be able to tell what the speaker had in mind. As a learner it is safe to use the two forms as described in post #18 because this is understood by all English speakers even if they personally use some other variant.


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## Phoebe1200

Glasguensis said:


> In some AE dialects the "did" form is used in place of the present perfect. Other AE speakers make the same distinction as BE speakers.


Thank you. Just to make sure.

So some Americans could use "Did you ever notice...?" in this example (and other examples that require present perfect) "Did you ever notice any kids speaking with a French accent? _(= at any time in the past up to and including now)._ and what they really mean is present perfect, they just opt for past simple for simplicity. Is that right?


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## Glasguensis

It is not a case of opting for simplicity - that is the normal usage in their dialect.


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## Phoebe1200

Glasguensis said:


> It is not a case of opting for simplicity - that is the normal usage in their dialect.


OK. Thanks.


SevenDays said:


> With _*Did* you ever notice_, the perspective covers the past up to the present;


I don't understand. Why do you say that it covers the past up to the present? I thought it should only cover the past.
And present perfect is the one that should cover the past up to the present.


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## Vronsky

Phoebe1200 said:


> I don't understand. Why do you say that it covers the past up to the present? I thought it should only cover the past.


There is an idiomatic use of the past tense with _always_, _ever _and _never _to refer to a state or habit leading up to the present:
_I always said (= have said) he would end up in jail.
Did you ever taste that seaweed?_​(Leech, Svartvik - A Communicative Grammar of English - 3-rd ed.)

Importantly, if you insert the word "ever", I don't think you can rely on any difference of meaning.
_Have you ever been to France?
Did you ever go to France?_​(Linkway, Read - simple past vs present perfect)


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you, Vronsky.


Vronsky said:


> There is an idiomatic use of the past tense with _always_, _ever _and _never _to refer to a state or habit leading up to the present:
> _I always said (= have said) he would end up in jail.
> Did you ever taste that seaweed?_


Could you explain a bit more about this please?


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## Vronsky

Phoebe1200 said:


> Thank you, Vronsky.
> 
> Could you explain a bit more about this please?


Could you clarify what exactly you want me to explain?


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## Phoebe1200

Vronsky said:


> _I always said (= have said) he would end up in jail.
> Did you ever taste that seaweed?_


Can both of the above also be used with present perfect?


Vronsky said:


> Could you clarify what exactly you want me to explain?





Vronsky said:


> There is an idiomatic use of the past tense with _always_, _ever _and _never _to refer to a state or habit leading up to the present:


More about the above.


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## Vronsky

Phoebe1200 said:


> Can both of the above also be used with present perfect?
> 
> More about the above.


I understand that as you can use the past tense with _ever _or _never _or _always _to express the present perfect idea. That is, both tenses can be used with the same meaning.


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## Phoebe1200

Vronsky said:


> to refer to a state or habit leading up to the present


I don't understand this.


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## Phoebe1200

Vronsky said:


> I understand that as you can use the past tense with _ever _or _never _or _always _to express the present perfect idea. That is, both tenses can be used with the same meaning.


Then what does referring to a state or habit have to do with that?


Vronsky said:


> _I always said (= have said) he would end up in jail.
> Did you ever taste that seaweed?_


And what state or habit is talked about here?


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## Vronsky

Phoebe1200 said:


> Then what does referring to a state or habit have to do with that?
> 
> And what state or habit is talked about here?


A *habit* is something that you do often or regularly.

"I always said (= have said) he would end up in jail." 
It can be considered as a habit.

"Did you ever taste that seaweed?" 
It's not a question about a habit, it's about an experience. So, I think I'd rewrite the sentence as: "There is an idiomatic use of the past tense with _always_, _ever _and _never _to refer to a state or habit or an experience leading up to the present".


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you, Vronsky.


Vronsky said:


> "Did you ever taste that seaweed?"


Please tell me if the above sentence can also be said using the present perfect?


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## Vronsky

Phoebe1200 said:


> Thank you, Vronsky.
> 
> Please tell me if the above sentence can also be said using the present perfect?


Yes, it can.
Actually, the present perfect is the default grammatical choice for such cases. But the simple past with _ever _is idiomatic usage. It has been said a dozen times in this thread now.


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## Phoebe1200

Vronsky said:


> Yes, it can.
> Actually, the present perfect is a default grammatical choice for such cases. But the simple past with _ever _is idiomatic usage. It has been said a dozen times in this thread now.


Thanks so much for replying.


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## Phoebe1200

Do I correctly understand that depending on the context this sentence could be interpreted as referring to present simple, past simple and present perfect?

*Ever notice* how odd his walk is? *Do* you ever notice how odd his walk is? (whenever you see him)
*Ever notice* how odd his walk is? *Did* you ever notice how odd his walk is? (whenever you saw him in the past)
*Ever noticed* how odd his walk is?*Have* you ever noticed how odd his walk is? (of all the times that you've seen him)


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## SevenDays

Phoebe1200 said:


> Do I correctly understand that depending on the context this sentence could be interpreted as referring to present simple, past simple and present perfect?
> 
> *Ever notice* how odd his walk is? *Do* you ever notice how odd his walk is? (whenever you see him)
> *Ever notice* how odd his walk is? *Did* you ever notice how odd his walk is? (whenever you saw him in the past)
> *Ever noticed* how odd his walk is?*Have* you ever noticed how odd his walk is? (of all the times that you've seen him)



The verb that carries tense (which tells us "present" or "past") is "to be" and not "notice," which means that "to be" is the main verb. So, "how odd his walk *is*" means "in the present" and "how odd his past *was*" means "in the past." If it's "in the past," then you need to use a past auxiliary (_*Did* you ever notice how odd his walk was?; *Had *you ever noticed how odd his walk was?_) because "odd walk" refers to a time _prior_ to the moment of speaking.

If it's "in the present," it doesn't matter if "ever notice" means "do" or "did," and it doesn't matter if "ever notice*d*" means "Have" or "Had" because the "odd walk" is relative to the _moment of speaking _(the "present").


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you, SD.



DonnyB said:


> when it describes a series of events which will have happened on a number of occasions* in the past,* then I'd expect "Ever notice*d* ..." as a shortened form of "Have you ever noticed...?


Didn't you mean "in the past *and up to the present*" in the above explanation?


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