# Pisser and piss



## Randisi

Hello all,

At issue is whether 'piss' is too vulgar to translate 'pisser,' or if something like 'pee' would be better. In other words, is 'pisser' less vulgar in French than 'piss' is in English?

"Nous courons, marchons, pissons, exécutons mieux une tâche compliquée… en pensant à autre chose."

Thanks


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## Cath.S.

_pee_ would be _faire pipi_.
_Pisser = piss_, même niveau de langage.


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## Randisi

Merci beaucoup!


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## linguist786

pisser? What's that supposed to mean?


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## Auryn

linguist786 said:
			
		

> pisser? What's that supposed to mean?



Pisser = to piss. _Ne laisse pas ton chien pisser dans mon  jardin!_


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## timpeac

I would add, though, that there is a universal permissiveness in French as far as swearing is concerned that means that any swear word is not as "harsh" as its English counterpart, and from what I've seen I'm not sure that this is different. Having seen grandmothers and grandsons groaning "merde" at each other each time they take a shot at tennis, I have the impression that the same grandson might tell idem grandmother that the dog "pisse dans la rue" whereas an English grandson would not say "a dog is pissing in the street" to his grandmother.

A small point - I don't deny that "pisser" and "to piss" are as close as synonymous as swear words get between French and English, just that there is a difference in cultural usage of swear words full stop.

For further example - I think an English home owner would say to his neighbour "don't let your dog loose in my garden!". "Don't let your dog piss in my garden" would be sure to start a feud.


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## la reine victoria

I've always found the French to be far more comfortable with the verb "pisser" than we Brits are with the English word.


Many a French wall have I seen with the command "Défense de Pisser" painted thereon. Do they still exist?

Also the famous "pissoirs". Can they still be found?



Thanks.


LRV


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## Cath.S.

Hum, Tim, je ne suis pas trop sûre que tu aies raison, là. 

_Pisser_ is seen as very uncouth, people tend to avoid it and say faire pipi instead, which I personally see as slightly if not totally childish.
In a way _pisser_ is felt as being ruder than _merde_.

LRV as far as I know, the "fameux pissoirs" are called _urinoirs_ or _pissotières (fam.). _


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## Auryn

To be fair, I wouldn't use "pisser" when talking to a neighbour either! I may be an exception among French people, but _all _swearwords were banned at home so I never got into the habit of using them 

Why I swear like a trooper in English is a total mystery.


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## Randisi

So are you suggesting a milder term? I tend to agree. 'Piss' has a slight hard edge to it. It would definitely stand out in a work of philosophy. But 'pee' is too childish. Any suggestions? Take a whizz?


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## timpeac

Well it's all a pissing mystery to me!

That's interesting, isn't it, Egueule's and Auryn's answers to what I wrote. I would accept what you say without more ado, but LRV makes a good point, doesn't she? There are "défense de pisser" signs, or were, and how about pissoires ? Is it that this word, a perfectly respectably Latinate word after all, has become more rude in recent decades?


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## Auryn

egueule said:
			
		

> _Pisser_ is seen as very uncouth, people tend to avoid it and say faire pipi instead, which I personally see as slightly if not totally childish.
> In a way _pisser_ is felt as being ruder than _merde_.



Yes, I agree. _Pisser_ is quite vulgar and would make people cringe if used in polite company.


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## MonsieurAquilone

ben, il faut inventer un mot, sans doute.  On peut dire, "s'en oublier" n'est-ce pas", ou bien, mot invente "pleuvoir un peu".....je veux pas etre impoli.


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## Cath.S.

> There are "défense de pisser" signs, or were,


No way they were official signs ! 
I've always seen signs saying 
_Défense d'uriner_
and you don't really seen any of those any longer (just like you don't see those wonderfully stern and basically self-contradicting signs reading défense d'afficher.).


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## linguist786

Auryn said:
			
		

> Pisser = to piss. _Ne laisse pas ton chien pisser dans mon jardin!_


ah! haha ok. I thought it was being used as an English word!


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## Auryn

I don't know about "défense de pisser"... maybe people _were_ more crude back in the day. "Pissoirs" are actually called *urinoirs*. 

As for a milder term, you can always say "uriner" but it sounds a bit medical...


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## Auryn

egueule said:
			
		

> No way they were official signs !
> I've always seen signs saying
> _Défense d'uriner_
> and you don't really seen any of those any longer (just like you don't see those wonderfully stern and basically self-contradicting signs reading défense d'afficher.).


La preuve!


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## timpeac

egueule said:
			
		

> LRV as far as I know, the "fameux pissoirs" are called _urinoirs_ or _pissotières (fam.). _


But those metal sheds randomly placed on streets are "pissoirs" aren't they? It has quite a large google presence.
Edit before even sending - actually, reviewing the list there is an unusually large number of foreign sites, mainly English and German (although French do feature too). Perhaps this is one of those words that has become more famous outside its native language than within, like "al fresco" in Italian or "double entendre" in French or "shampooing" in English (or innumerable other words the French like to regrammaticalise on our behalf!).


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## Cath.S.

_Pissoir _seems to be an English word:
freedictionary.com


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## Auryn

I know them as _pissotières_ too, not _pissoirs_.


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## Randisi

Well, even if 'piss' is a little more vulgar than 'pisser,' the difference seems minimal, if it is being discussed this much.

So to H#@* with it,

I refuse to f@&*ing bowdlerize!
(If I used emoticons, there would be one here with a big sh@#-eating grin!)

'Piss' it is.


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## timpeac

egueule said:
			
		

> _Pissoir _seems to be an English word:
> freedictionary.com


Well, we certainly don't use that term generally. I see that that site gives the etymology as old French "pissier" "to urinate". The evidence all seems to point to "piss(i)er" being a perfectly inoffensive verb in old French that has become offensive in more recent times. For example, if public urinals used to be called "pissoires" in English it's unlikely that someone made up that term ex nihilo based on a foreign language. More likely is that that was the term, or a term, in French which has fallen out of usage. But that's all by-the-by, thanks to all for correcting my impression of the level of the French word "pisser"!


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## jesuisderrieretoi

Hello everybody, I'm living in Switzerland and sorry but I prefer to write in french 'cause it's easily for me. 
Constatation: en anglais il suffit d'ajouter une préposition au mot piss ("piss off" = "dégage" ou "tire-toi", "casse-toi", "barre-toi" ) et on obtient une insulte qu'en français, on peut traduire littéralement par "va pisser au loin" ou "va pisser ailleurs" mais c'est peu utilisé et pas très choquant, pas au point de déclencher un duel. Parcontre "je te pisse à la raie" "= I piss on your ass?" est plus insultant.
C'est peut-être juste ces petits mots presque inaudibles comme "off" qui font toute la différence et que pour les anglophones le mot piss est plus directement lié à une provocation ou une insulte, donc plus vulgaire, violent, non ? 
Certaines personnes (suivant leur culture mais pas forcément leurs origines) sont aussi plus ou moins sensibles au fait de parler des excréments humains (sujet tabou, dégoûtant, en fait je crois que personne n'aime parler de ça, en omettant les scatophiles bien sûr!)...


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## MonsieurAquilone

Bienvenue aux forums.  Bien entendu, je pense que t'as raison. En fait c'est tout a fait notre propre opinion du mot.  Mais, ca c'est bien dit, j'suis d'accord.


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## wonderful

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I've always found the French to be far more comfortable with the verb "pisser" than we Brits are with the English word.
> 
> 
> Many a French wall have I seen with the command "Défense de Pisser" painted thereon. Do they still exist?
> 
> Also the famous "pissoirs". Can they still be found?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> LRV


 
I agree with Egueule
I have never seen the sign "défense de pisser" (it's really too vulgar). It would be "défense d'uriner"


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## la reine victoria

Dear Wonderful,

I am twice your age (plus a few more years) and can assure you that "Defense de Pisser" *was *painted on many a French wall of my acquaintance, not only in Paris but in other cities and small towns.

Are you saying that French men have given up the habit of relieving themselves in public places? 

I shall be so triste if they have. To me it was the equivalent of that nerdy male hobby - train spotting. I've spent many a happy day with my rucksack, binoculars and notebook "zizi spotting"!   



LRV


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## KittyCatty

I would just like to add that, although I understand that pisser is still relatively vulgar I agree with timpeac that it is still milder than the english word piss, which is to be used with extreme caution. Having got off the coach from a long journey in France I was desperate for the loo but my corres was hanging around. I went "Je suis desesperée" in a kind of wail, and she said to her friends, I have to go, "elle a envie de pisser". There was laughter at this, and I was really offended, thinking she had told her friends I needed a piss which would be really rude in english. My dictionary agrees that it can mean to have a pee (*) or to have a piss (***) (* = level of rudeness). I really hope she meant the former, there! Piss does seem unnecessarily rude in that situation. And therefore I would hesitate to always translate pisser by to piss, when it can harmlessly mean to have a pee.


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## wonderful

Well you may be older than me but I have been living in France for 20 years and it is a fact that I have never seen such a sign in my region or somewhere else in France. So, I'm not saying that you are lying but I am sure that you saw them a long long time ago (maybe in pubs, streets... but I really doubt that it was an "official" sign). That's why I wanted to say to correct this point... 

Moreover, it is quite vulgar to say "défense de pisser", a correct sign would be as I said in my previous post "défense d'uriner" . And this does not mean that French men have given up relieving themselves in public places (althought it is forbidden)

(By the way, if you write this expression "défense de pisser" in Google, you will see that it is not a common expression and correct way of speaking)


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## la reine victoria

KittyCatty said:
			
		

> I would just like to add that, although I understand that pisser is still relatively vulgar I agree with timpeac that it is still milder than the english word piss, which is to be used with extreme caution. Having got off the coach from a long journey in France I was desperate for the loo but my corres was hanging around. I went "Je suis desesperée" in a kind of wail, and she said to her friends, I have to go, "elle a envie de pisser". There was laughter at this, and I was really offended, thinking she had told her friends I needed a piss which would be really rude in english. My dictionary agrees that it can mean to have a pee (*) or to have a piss (***) (* = level of rudeness). I really hope she meant the former, there! Piss does seem unnecessarily rude in that situation. And therefore I would hesitate to always translate pisser by to piss, when it can harmlessly mean to have a pee.


 

Poor KittyCatty.  

I would have been mortified.

I hate to hear anyone use the word p*ss over here, let alone in France, probably in your case among strangers.

Never mind, put it down to experience. 




LRV


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## wonderful

KittyCatty said:
			
		

> I would just like to add that, although I understand that pisser is still relatively vulgar I agree with timpeac that it is still milder than the english word piss, which is to be used with extreme caution. Having got off the coach from a long journey in France I was desperate for the loo but my corres was hanging around. I went "Je suis desesperée" in a kind of wail, and she said to her friends, I have to go, "elle a envie de pisser". There was laughter at this, and I was really offended, thinking she had told her friends I needed a piss which would be really rude in english. My dictionary agrees that it can mean to have a pee (*) or to have a piss (***) (* = level of rudeness). I really hope she meant the former, there! Piss does seem unnecessarily rude in that situation. And therefore I would hesitate to always translate pisser by to piss, when it can harmlessly mean to have a pee.


 

Well it is common to hear boys saying "je vais pisser" (not at work of course but at a party, between friends, ...) but I think that it's awful to hear a girl say that. It is better to say "je vais aux toilettes"


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## KittyCatty

She probably thought I wouldn't understand... Yes, it was all an experience! Ah well... 





> I hate to hear anyone use the word p*ss over here, let alone in France, probably in your case among strangers


.I know, I was a bit like, in my mind, 'Did she just say...???'
But reassure me, could she have simply been saying I needed a pee? Hm this is getting personal... from your replies I guess she didn't... Yes, I'll put it down to experience and move swiftly on!


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## Cath.S.

> My dictionary agrees that it can mean to have a pee (*) or to have a piss (***) (* = level of rudeness). I really hope she meant the former,


This is a total illusion Kittycatty, there is only one meaning in French, only _one_ level of rudeness for that verb - some people won't even use it talking about their dog.


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## Paulinne

It is funny... In the Czech republic we call them "pisoár" (pissoire)  I have never realised that it came from the word "pisser" 

It is wonderful that every day I discover something new 
P.


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## Agnès E.

I fully support my francophones co-foreros about the use of _pisser_ meaning urinate in French.
It _is_ vulgar.
I would suggest a quick look at the TLFi to get convinced about it.

And I've never seen *Défense de pisser* sign either... some *Défense d'uriner*, yes (all very old).


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## la reine victoria

How about "le piss en lit" for a dandelion.   Is that now demoted to "le pipi en lit"?





LRV


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## Agnès E.

Please, LRV...
If you look at the origin of the word pissenlit, you will note that it has been created during the XVth century and is from a military origin...
It says all, doesn't it?



> *Étymol. et Hist.1.* Mil. XVes.


Source : TLFi


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## Cath.S.

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> How about "le piss en lit" for a dandelion. Is that now demoted to "le pipi en lit"?
> 
> LRV


No, it's not; thank goodness for small favours. 
But just like anglophones were saying that they did not think of a mare whenever they came across the word nightmare, we francophones don't really hear the word_ pisse_ in _pissenlit_, which is perceived as one whole concept, and is evocative of things light and poetical just like dandelion fluff.


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## Auryn

A really insulting word for a young girl is "une pisseuse". As if boys didn't have a bladder!


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## KittyCatty

OK, I understand now that it _is_ a vulgar term, as you, the natives, all agree, and it makes sense because the english word is also vulgar. But now my Collins Robert appears to be lying to me. Where one asterisk "indicates that the expression, while not forming part of standard language, is used by all educated speakers in a relaxed situation but would not be used in a formal essay or letter" it suggests:
ca ne pisse pas loin *- it's nothing to write home about
ca l'a pris comme une envie de pisser * - he suddenly got the urge to do it
laisse pisser * - forget it. 
And there's not even an asterisk for:
pisser du sang - to pass blood with the urine
son nez pissait le sang - blood was pouring from his nose.
Now, would you say pisser du sang to your doctor? It sounds like you all wouldn't dream of it. But that's what Collins Robert suggests. Do you agree with the dictionary here? This is what it's telling french learners. After this thread I am just going to avoid the word at all costs. Mainly because, I admit, I am confused now! I'm being told different things. Why doesn't Collins Robert back you up?


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## LV4-26

Generally, expressions with the word _pisser_ are less vulgar than _pisser_ on its own, because I guess the event referred to also has an influence on the resulting degree of vulgarity.
I'll try and sort them out from the least to the most rude.
ça pisse le sang (or _son nez pissait le sang_)
ça ne pisse pas loin
ça l'a pris comme une envie de pissser
laisser pisser
pisser du sang. 
Some could disagree with that order but the main thing is that none sounds as rude as _pisser_ on its own (except, maybe, the last one).

To be totally honest, I must admit I've heard a few doctors use _pisser_ as they would any other word. I think it's just another medical term for those who do. 

But I wouldn't ask my neighbor to _empêcher [son] chien de pisser sur mes gardenias_ (if I had any). 
However I can use it between close friends and I don't object to my (grownup) children's using it.


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## Lezert

Et 
"pisser de de rire" 
est vraiment commun, et même gentillet, non?


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## LV4-26

Lezert said:
			
		

> Et
> "pisser de de rire"
> est vraiment commun, et même gentillet, non?


Tiens, je l'avais oublié celui-là. Allez, je m'en vais le glisser juste après _ça ne pisse pas loin_
Gentillet ? Non, quand même pas.


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## zam

Mes excuses à l'avance si ça a déjà été dit, j'ai parcouru le fil sans le remarquer mais 'c'est comme pisser dans un violon' est assez innocent aussi, très utilisé et ça peut se traduire ainsi= it's a waste of time/there's no point/it's like banging your head against a brick wall.
Aussi, pour continuer la série 'dans la famille PISSER je voudrais les moins vulgaires' on peut proposer 'ça lui a pris comme une envie de pisser' pas trop vulgaire et très courant (approx: he did it suddenly/out of the blue)


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## LV4-26

Le premier manquait, en effet. Le deuxième avait déjà était signalé par KittyCatty (#39).


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## bernik

_"c'est comme pisser dans un violon"_

à l'intention des anglophones, rappelons que l'expression d'origine était : c'est comme de siffler dans un violon !


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## Lezert

et quand il pleut vraiment beaucoup,
"il pleut comme vache qui pisse"


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## timpeac

Maybe it is its usage in such phrases - which are not so shocking - that has given so many anglophones the idea that the verb "pisser" on its own is less offensive than "to piss". I don't think our shocking words lose their "bite" in phrases - that's a dangerous comment to make round here, I expect I'll now be proved wrong with a dozen examples to the contrary.


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## LV4-26

Je pense que Tim n'avait pas tout à fait tort quand il disait que, d'une manière générale, le français est plus tolérant que l'anglais à l'égard des gros mots.

Ce qui va suivre n'est peut-être qu'une projection de ma part (peut-être est-ce seulement moi qui ai cette attitude). Mais il me semble que le français a tendance à considérer comme vulgaire uniquement la vulgarité *gratuite*.
Je me souviens d'un fil où il était question de "_foutre la tarte dans le four_". Ici, le mot "_foutre_" ne s'impose pas, il n'est ni plus chatoyant ni plus pittoresque que le verbe _mettre_ qui convient parfaitement. Donc, très peu de gens seraient susceptibles de prononcer une telle phrase.

Ce n'est pas le cas pour des expressions comme "_ça l'a pris comme une envie de pisser_" ou "_son nez pissait le sang"_ (proposées par kittycatty) qui sont plus difficilement remplaçables par autre chose, qui apportent un "plus" au niveau de l'image et qui, par conséquent, ne sont pas totalement gratuites. Raison pour laquelle, à mon avis, elles "passent" mieux en français.

Ce n'est qu'une hypothèse et, comme telle, elle est contestable, ne vous en privez pas 

EDIT : Tim, I hadn't seen your post but I think mine answers it in a way.


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## timpeac

I've thought of "cock-up" but according to this thread the derivation is natutical rather than "cock" (bitte) as I had always assumed it was.


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## Randisi

It is my impression that in AE too, 'piss' used in a phrase has less 'bite' as Timpeac put it, but still wouldn't be used in polite company. The phrase 'his nose was pissing blood' is less shocking than 'he pissed.'

Lezert, I've heard the colorful phrase: it was pissing like a cow on a flat rock.

Though this is not at all common. In fact, it could be that my friend is the only one to use it. But that's no reason not to…


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Lezert said:
			
		

> et quand il pleut vraiment beaucoup,
> "il pleut comme vache qui pisse"


Il y a aussi "laisser pisser le mérinos" (laisser aller les choses, le mérinos étant un mouton)...


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## bernik

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> le français est plus tolérant que l'anglais à l'égard des gros mots.


J'ai l'impression contraire. Quand on double les films américains en français, je crois qu'on est parfois obligé de supprimer certaines vulgarités parce que ça passe trop mal en français. Mais au final, ce n'est pas la langue qui tolère les mots inconvenants, ce sont les gens, et ça varie énormément d'un milieu/pays/époque/génération à l'autre. En france, les jeunes ont plus recours que leurs ainés à la vulgarité. La télé et l'école poussent dans ce sens. On entend rarement des personnes âgées s'exclamer "Putain, merde, fait chier !". Aux USA aussi, je pense que les gens âgés sont plus polis, et que la jeunesse subit l'influence néfaste des médias.


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## claraet

I don't know the word " pissoirs" either , you can also say " urinoirs "


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## la reine victoria

When I tell you that my first visit to Paris was in 1956  then you may believe that what you now call "urinoirs" were called "pissoirs" (I asked my French teacher  ).  They were very plentiful and usually decorated with all sorts of wonderful posters and advertisements.

Here is a rather bleak looking one.





LRV


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## Cath.S.

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> When I tell you that my first visit to Paris was in 1956  then you may believe that what you now call "urinoirs" were called "pissoirs" (I asked my French teacher  ). They were very plentiful and usually decorated with all sorts of wonderful posters and advertisements.
> 
> Here is a rather bleak looking one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LRV


It would seem that _pissoir_ was never the official name for them, though:
*Pissoir*, subst. masc., *fam. ou région*. (Nord et Nord-Est). Urinoir. Synon. _pissotière_ (fam.). _Au fond de l'allée principale, une baraque en planches, que des voyageurs, plusieurs fois, ont dû prendre pour un pissoir, si j'en crois l'odeur, et où se lisent de salopes exclamations germaniques_ (BLOY, _Journal_, 1899, p.343). 
Source TLFi

I don't think anyone uses it anymore today.


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## LV4-26

Il me semblait bien qu'une marque d'eau minérale avait utilisé ce verbe dans une des ces pubs. J'ai vérifié. En effet, Vittel, en 1973 avait sorti le slogan "Buvez...pissez" qui, plus tard, est devenu "buvez...éliminez".
Ici.


> Après le célèbre "Buvez, pissez" en 1973 et "Quand Vittel a chassé les toxines des cellules, Vittel les chasse du corps" (1974), la marque lance son mot d’ordre : "Retrouvez toute la vitalité qui est en vous"(1975).


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## timpeac

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> They were very plentiful and usually decorated with all sorts of wonderful posters and advertisements.


But not "défense de pisser" presumably!


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## Cath.S.

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Il me semblait bien qu'une marque d'eau minérale avait utilisé ce verbe dans une des ces pubs. J'ai vérifié. En effet, Vittel, en 1973 avait sorti le slogan "Buvez...pissez" qui, plus tard, est devenu "buvez...éliminez".
> Ici.


C'est vraiment bizarre, personne chez moi ne s'en souvient. Personnellement, j'étais ado, je crois que ça m'aurait marquée. Toi, Jean-Mi t'en souviens-tu personnellement, ou quelqu'un de ton entourage ?
Je me demande si la marque l'a utilisé longtemps, ce slogan, ou s'il a immédiatement provoqué un tollé.


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## LV4-26

egueule said:
			
		

> C'est vraiment bizarre, personne chez moi ne s'en souvient. Personnellement, j'étais ado, je crois que ça m'aurait marquée. Toi, Jean-Mi t'en souviens-tu personnellement, ou quelqu'un de ton entourage ?
> Je me demande si la marque l'a utilisé longtemps, ce slogan, ou s'il a immédiatement provoqué un tollé.


Bonne question. Je me souvenais bien du slogan mais j'avais oublié s'il s'agissait de Vittel ou d'une autre marque. Je me rappelle également qu'à l'époque, j'avais trouvé ça pour le moins audacieux.
J'ai oublié si c'était sur des affiches, dans les magazines, à la télé ou les trois à la fois. Je crois que je l'ai découverte sur des affiches.
Je ne sais pas si la pub est restée longtemps. Moins d'un an en tous cas puisque, d'après la page que j'ai citée, il y avait un nouveau slogan en 74. J'ignore aussi si la publicité a été changée sous la pression (de l'opinion, de l'état, de la censure...) ou pour une autre raison.

PS : Pour information, ma femme ne s'en souvenait pas. Mais ça ne m'étonne pas, j'ai une mémoire du genre "attrape-tout" même les choses qui ne servent à rien.


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## NuTTzss

Here in South Louisiana, where the French language has stagnated since 1803, "pisser" is still used. The more polite way of expressing same is "faire ton besoin".


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## timpeac

NuTTzss said:
			
		

> Here in South Louisiana, where the French language has stagnated since 1803, "pisser" is still used. The more polite way of expressing same is "faire ton besoin".


Thanks Nuttzss, and welcome. That is really interesting! I do wonder if "pisser" has become more rude in French. Such changes are quite common - for example "to pee" in English comes from "to P" eg "to piss" but although it initially (no pun intended!) was purely euphemistic it is a wee (pun intended) bit rude itself now.


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## la reine victoria

timpeac said:
			
		

> But not "défense de pisser" presumably!


 



Certainly not!  "*VEUILLEZ PISSER ICI S.V.P." *was probably there though. 


I'm still researching my "défense de pisser" (just to prove my point  ).

I think we can safely say that the verb "pisser" was once regarded as far less offensive in France than it appears to be today.

To be honest, I'm getting quite peed off with this lavatorial subject.  It's amazing that it's had so much attention.  It should be flushed away.  




LRV
flushing


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## la reine victoria

NuTTzss said:
			
		

> Here in South Louisiana, where the French language has stagnated since 1803, "pisser" is still used. The more polite way of expressing same is "faire ton besoin".


 


Welcome to the forums NuTTzss.  


Maybe certain people will believe me now!  




LRV


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## geve

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Generally, expressions with the word _pisser_ are less vulgar than _pisser_ on its own, because I guess the event referred to also has an influence on the resulting degree of vulgarity.
> I'll try and sort them out from the least to the most rude.
> ça pisse le sang (or _son nez pissait le sang_)
> ça ne pisse pas loin
> ça l'a pris comme une envie de pissser
> laisser pisser
> pisser du sang.
> Some could disagree with that order but the main thing is that none sounds as rude as _pisser_ on its own (except, maybe, the last one).


J'ajouterai à cette liste quelques mots composés tout à fait audibles bien que familiers : _pisse-copie_ (écrivain qui rédige abondamment et médiocrement; journaliste à la tâche), _pisse-froid_ (homme froid et morose, sans humour).

Le terme "pisser" peut également être utilisé dans les jeux de cartes, lorsque l'on n'a pas la couleur demandée et que l'on joue une autre couleur qui n'est pas de l'atout. A tel point que je ne me souviens même plus s'il y a un autre terme plus raffiné pour désigner ce fait !...

Le Littré propose aussi une expression que je n'ai jamais entendue : "pisser des os" = accoucher


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## LV4-26

_pisse-vinaigre_ : 1. personne très avare 2. même sens que pisse-froid.

Le Petit Larousse 2003 donne le verbe pisser comme "_très familier"_.

Au vu des faits (comme on dit dans les tribunaux), je crois qu'il faut se résoudre à admettre que 
- ce mot a un registre.....flou (ce qui assez surprenant, je ne connais pas d'autre exemple). Et mouvant. Qui peut aller du familier au vulgaire.
- que les expressions dans lesquelles il rentre sont moins vulgaires que le mot isolé, et encore moins quand elles ne renvoient pas directement à la miction proprement dite.
- que la différence de registre avec l'anglais _piss_ va, en gros, de "très faible" à "modérée".
_ que les anglophones seraient, quoi qu'il arrive, bien inspirés de l'utiliser avec énormément de précautions.


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## carolineR

In answer to posts 8, 16, 19, 20 : Of course "pissoirs" is French ! Shall we say it is sound, healthy, and certainly *male* vocabulary ? May I point out both egueule and Auryn are ladies ? 
Sorry if this comes late in the debate : i hadn't seen page 2,3,4 etc


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## LV4-26

bibi said:
			
		

> A ce propos, je me souviens d'avoir vu (j'ai dit *vu*, pas _bu_, je devais avoir une dizaine d'années ) un cru de vin rouge qui s'appeleait, je crois, _les pissotières de l'Impératrice._


Correction, le cru en question s'appelle *La* pissotière de l'impératrice, au singulier. Et l'impératrice en question, c'est Joséphine de Beauharnais. Voir le tout dernier paragraphe sur cette page qui est, par ailleurs, fort instructive.


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## carolineR

Ah que ce soit moche, sûr !  mais bien français...
Il y a des pisse-dru et pisse-grain aussi, dans le genre grand cru


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## LV4-26

Je voudrais juste faire un point sur la pub dont je parlais plus haut (Vittel). En fouillant un peu mieux Internet, je me suis aperçu (mais je m'en doutais un peu ) que les publicitaires actuels considère cette campagne comme un échec que Vittel aurait pu aisément pressentir.


> [...] doivent garder en mémoire les grands échecs publicitaires de ces trente dernières années: 1969: J. Walter Thompson, lessive Ala: “enzymes gloutons”. Les ménagères ont craint que la lessive mange les couleurs de leur linge, plutôt que les saletés. 1972: BNP “Votre argent m’intéresse” (Trop direct). 1973: Vittel “Buvez et pissez” (vulgaire). [...]


 Ici.

J'aime bien cet exemple. Je le trouve particulièrement pertinent dans ce débat parce qu'il apporte un peu d'eau à chacun des deux moulins
- d'une part, cette pub n'a pas marché (voire a été retirée sous la pression de l'opinion ?) parce que les consommateurs l'ont trouvé trop vulgaire.
- d'autre part,  des publicitaires, des gens de métier qui sont censés connaître les réactions de l'opinion, ont quand même jugé que le risque n'était pas si grand.


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## la reine victoria

Pendant la nuit, un ange est venu dans ma chambre et m'a laissé une photo sur mon oreiller.


Regardez! 


Je n'ai jamais entendu parler d'une chose comme ça en Angleterre.  




LRV


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## Auryn

carolineR said:
			
		

> In answer to posts 8, 16, 19, 20 : Of course "pissoirs" is French ! Shall we say it is sound, healthy, and certainly *male* vocabulary ? May I point out both egueule and Auryn are ladies ?


La main sur le cœur, je ne connaissais que _pissotière_ (même si je ne l'utilisais pas!). P_issoir_ est plus courant en anglais qu'en français.

Tiens, j'y pense: on appelle aussi ça une _vespasienne_.


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## la reine victoria

Auryn said:
			
		

> La main sur le cœur, je ne connaissais que _pissotière_ (même si je ne l'utilisais pas!). P_issoir_ est plus courant en anglais qu'en français.
> 
> Tiens, j'y pense: on appelle aussi ça une _vespasienne_.


 

Bravo Auryn!  

En voici une, exactement comme ceux que j'ai vu à Paris.

Avec Google on peut trouver encore beaucoup de photos.

Et, d'un site BBC, quand on a besoin . . . .  -



> In France, do not ask for _le cabinet de toilette_ as you are likely to be shown to the airing cupboard - it is better to ask for _les toilettes_ in polite company, and if you are really desperate _*le pissoir*_. At least your hosts will know what you mean, even if they are *embarrassed*.


 


LRV


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## Cath.S.

> May I point out both egueule and Auryn are ladies ?


Sure, but then I know _tasse _(not really what you'd call ladies' vocabulary _)_... so why wouldn't I know _pissoir_?


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## Gardefeu

> In France, do not ask for _le cabinet de toilette_ as you are likely to be shown to the airing cupboard - it is better to ask for _les toilettes_ in polite company, and if you are really desperate _le pissoir_. At least your hosts will know what you mean, even if they are embarrassed.


 There again, BBC is completely wrong! What your guests are likely to believe, is that you clumsily made up the word! It is quite clear, from many posts on this thread that pissoir is NOT a common French word. I'm 45 (and I'm a man!), and I've _never ever_ heard or read it anywhere in France (except in this forum!...)
The only place where I ever saw it is in the Zurich railway station, where the lavatory is indeed called that way - but that's German!
Do not use it nowadays in France, people will understand you, because they'll recognize the word _pisser, _but the word, if it ever existed, simply doesn't exist any more_ - _I respectfully believe, of course, La Reine Victoria (who wouldn't?), but, like Auryn, _la main sur le coeur_, I've never met that word anywhere in France (or in French) - or anywhere in literature!

P.S: Le cabinet de toilette is indeed an equivalent to "the lavatory". And what is an airing cupboard in English?
PPS: And _tasse_, egueule? What is this about?


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## Cath.S.

_Tasse_ is slang (quite vulgar) meaning _urinoir / pissotière_. It's used mainly, but not exclusively, by the gay community.
Pas la tasse de thé de tout le monde, évidemment...


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## Gardefeu

Alors je complète: j'ai 45 ans, je suis un homme, _et je ne suis pas gay_!


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## Auryn

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Et, d'un site BBC, quand on a besoin . . . .  -
> 
> In France, do not ask for _le cabinet de toilette_ as you are likely to be shown to the airing cupboard - it is better to ask for _les toilettes_ in polite company, and if you are really desperate _*le pissoir*_. At least your hosts will know what you mean, even if they are *embarrassed*.


 No way! Why should "les toilettes" not be appropriate in all circumstances anyway? How ridiculous of the BBC. I'm not paying my licence fee next year 

Edit: French houses don't have airing cupboards anyway! That's how clueless the BBC are 

Airing cupboard


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## la reine victoria

From the Greater London Industrial Archaeology Society news, 2003 -




> Recently I walked along Horseferry Road, SW1. At Regency Place, the five-way junction of Horseferry Road and Regency, Rutherford and Maunsel Streets, there is what I can only describe as a *pissoir*. It seems to have been modernised but it is an interesting survivor. It is, of course, open 24 hours a day and is much patronised by taxi drivers. Source.


 

From a "Literary Tour of Paris for Proust Lovers" 2006 



> Late afternoon private, mini-van tour of several Proust-related sites: 9 Blvd. Malsherbes (Proust’s apartment), Lycee Condorcet (Proust school), *Parc Champs Elysee for the pissoir Marcel Proust*, and Pere Lachaise cemetery to visit Proust’s grave.


 
If Marcel Proust's favourite pissoir has been named after him, then we can safely say that pissoirs did exist.



> *1.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SACRE BLEU! as the Rest of the World Goes Bidet Crazy, Why Are the French Turning Their Backs on Their Own Invention? Newspaper article; The Daily Mail (London, England), March 17, 2005_...no time. But, lets be honest, theyve never been known for their personal hygiene. Frenchmen traditionally used openair *pissoirs* plonked on the pavement or the middle of a town square. They gave off a musky aroma of garlic, Gitanes cigarettes and too..._


 

I rest my case.  Why are so many French people in denial?



LRV
Withdrawing from
this discussion and
shoving her head down
the bidet.


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## timpeac

My dear LRV - your quotes are English ones - as far as I've seen no one has denied that this word is known in English (and Czech and German apparently). All of which certainly leads me to believe that this was a French word exported a long while ago. It also leads me to marvel at the capriciousness of language that a word invented in one language could be so popular in its time to be exported to several other languages, and then fade in popularity in each but to differing extents in each language, and the most in its creator (less in English, and still less in Czech apparently). But all the French seem to be saying is that nowadays it is obscure _in French_ to the point of not being recognised as even being a word by many. How do your quoted English speaking sources change that?

Edit - how about WC as a corollary. As far as I've seen this word is much more common in French than in English - I bet you'd be shocked at how many schoolkids would not understand what was meant by WC.


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## Gardefeu

> Why are so many French people in denial?


No one denies that _pissoirs _as such exist in France. The *word*_ pissoir _most emphatically does not! They are called _urinoirs_ or _vespasiennes_ or (slang) _pissotières_. I think this rounds it up, doesn't it?


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## OlivierG

In fact the word exists (it is in my dictionary). It is just not used anymore for at least 30 years. Before that, I don't know, I'd have to ask somebody else older than me.


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## Cath.S.

> Why are so many French people in denial?


OMG! We're all going to suffer from life-threatening uremic poisoning!  Just because we are stubbornly refusing to confess to the existence of the word _pissoir _in French!


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## Aupick

The noramlly exhaustive _Dictionnaire historique de la langue française_ by Le Robert has no mention of the word "pissoir", which suggests it never had much of a life in the present or past (except perhaps regionally, as the TLF indicates).

It does however mention "pissotière", which meant penis when Rabelais used it, before dropping out of the language and being reborn in the 17th century as an _urinoir_.


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## Auryn

timpeac said:
			
		

> Edit - how about WC as a corollary. As far as I've seen this word is much more common in French than in English - I bet you'd be shocked at how many schoolkids would not understand what was meant by WC.



Yes, WC (vécé) would be understood by any French person. 

I have some country bumpkin relatives who still say "les cabinets".


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## timpeac

Auryn said:
			
		

> Yes, WC (vécé) would be understood by any French person.
> 
> I have some country bumpkin relatives who still say "les cabinets".


Yes - but it is an English word (water closet) and my point is that many English people wouldn't know what their French visitor meant if they asked (in English) for the "WC". (I'm not sure from your message if you understood what I meant or not, so just to be clear).


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## Auryn

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes - but it is an English word (water closet) and my point is that many English people wouldn't know what their French visitor meant if they asked (in English) for the "WC". (I'm not sure from your message if you understood what I meant or not, so just to be clear).


Oh, I see  

I bet they still wouldn't get it if the French visitor asked for "les ouatères"


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## Cath.S.

Auryn said:
			
		

> Oh, I see
> 
> I bet they still wouldn't get it if the French visitor asked for "les ouatères"


They'd probably end up bringing him a glass of water.


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## timpeac

egueule said:
			
		

> They'd probably end up bringing him a glass of water.


Une tasse d'eau ?


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## Cath.S.

timpeac said:
			
		

> Une tasse d'eau ?


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## NuTTzss

timpeac said:
			
		

> My dear LRV - your quotes are English ones - as far as I've seen no one has denied that this word is known in English (and Czech and German apparently). All of which certainly leads me to believe that this was a French word exported a long while ago. It also leads me to marvel at the capriciousness of language that a word invented in one language could be so popular in its time to be exported to several other languages, and then fade in popularity in each but to differing extents in each language, and the most in its creator (less in English, and still less in Czech apparently). But all the French seem to be saying is that nowadays it is obscure _in French_ to the point of not being recognised as even being a word by many. How do your quoted English speaking sources change that?
> 
> Edit - how about WC as a corollary. As far as I've seen this word is much more common in French than in English - I bet you'd be shocked at how many schoolkids would not understand what was meant by WC.


 
This could well be the case. Here is South Louisiana (where the language ceased to grow after the sale of the Territory to the U.S.), "pissoir" is commonly used. At least I have heard it all my 60 plus years.
Enough to  send one to the "loo", n'est pas?


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## Lugubert

To add another language to this English-French discussion, a fairly common Swedish word for conveniences for men is _pissoar_, pronounced rather like the French word. Sometimes it's _urinoar_.

For passing blood with the urine, _blodpissning_ is a veterinary term only.

The polite word for WC used to be _WC_ - [ve:se:] - but nowadays, _toa_, short for _toalett_ seems to have taken over almost completely. You see the pattern: French -oi- -> Swedish -oa-.


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## mirandolina

Definition from Le Petit Robert:


*pissoir
[piswaY] n. m.​ 

• 1546; « pot de chambre » 1489; de pisser 

¨Région.(Nord)Édifice public où les hommes vont uriner. Þ pissotière.
 
pissotière​​​ [pisCtjDY] n. f. ​

• 1611 aussi « trou d'un cuvier à lessive »; « vessie » 1564; de pisser  ​

¨ Fam. Édifice public où les hommes vont uriner. Þ vespasienne.
​*


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