# True love promises the infinite (for engagement ring)



## thepunkrider

Dear all,

I would trully need your help! I have tomorrow to go get mu future wife's engagement ring.

I'd like to make it engraved with this sentence: True love promises the infinite (l'amour véritable promet l'inifini, Il vero amore promette l’infin ...)

I want to make it engraved in latin (full sentence or first letter of each word if no room).

Could you please help?

Google says: pollicitationibus verus amor infinitus

Is that good?

thanks a lot!!!!


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## relativamente

According to a dictionary you can find in Perseus website 
pollicitatio means  a promising, a promise (class. but not in Cic., who uses promissio)
 For modern speakers promissio sounds better since has passed to romance languages as promesse promesa, and so on.For me pollicitatio sounds like the promises the politicians make to be elected, but maybe I am wrong.
The phrase you use is not well constructed. I think you can wait for more answers


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## thepunkrider

Thank you! I was also thinking the sentence was weirdly constructed (i have made a little bit of latin at school).

I'll take all infomartion and advices! 

Thx again! For taking some time for me


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## Scholiast

Greetings



> pollicitationibus verus amor infinitus



is nonsense. *Do not on any account rely on Google for translations into Latin!
*
Relativamente (# 2) is certainly right, that for the context, _promittere_ is an apter idea than the _pollic_- cluster of words. Most literally, you could have:
_
amor verus infinitum promittit_.

But you might want to toy with other ideas, such as:
_
amor verus fines nullos scit_ ("True love knows/recognises no limits/boundaries")

or
_
omnia vincit amor_ ("Love conquers everything" - a short poetic quotation).

Good luck!


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## thepunkrider

Thx a lot for your time and help.

Actually, as this is a quote, i'd like to keep it as close to its original form as possible.

VERY BIG thank you to you all guys!


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## Scholiast

Greetings once more



> as this is a quote, i'd like to keep it as close to its original form as possible.



Of course as this is for an engagement-ring, you want it to be as "correct" as it can be.

In this case, then stick with

_amor verus infinitum promittit_

Or, since this is obviously rather long for the inside of a ring, A.V.I.P. - you and she, I hope for a lifetime together, will always know what it stands for (in both senses).

In the circumstances, the Moderator will I am sure allow this "chatty" sign-off: God bless you both, and I hope you will be very happy.


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## thepunkrider

That's really nice of you and going straight to the heart!

I will probably go for the acronym form, sure i'd like it to be correct anyway!

Thank you again for sharingyour time and knowledge. This is muchhhhh appreciated Sir!


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## thepunkrider

just to make sure: "amor verus infinitum promittit"? or "verus amor infinitum promittit"?

thx again


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## Scholiast

Greetings once more.

I know you want to get this completely right, and with good reason, for this is something you and your fiancée will want to live with forever.

In the Romance languages - pun here only partly intended - adjectives usually follow the nouns they qualify. The Italian "il vero amore", which you cite in your first post, feels wrong to me, because it seems to emphasise _true_ love (as opposed to "wrong", "false" or "mistaken" or "misplaced" love). It would also be grammatically possible in Italian to say "Il amore vero", and to me as a Latinist, the instinctive feel is to go with the natural French/Romance order of things, "l'amour véritable..." &c.  The emphasis you want, for yourself and for your lady, is "love", so I would stand by _Amor Verus Infinitum Promittit_.

Please, by all means, look for another opinion before you make a final decision on such a great thing, but that is my honest recommendation - and were I in your happy position myself, that is what I would personally go for.

Again, I may have to ask the Moderator's indulgence for being personal and chatty here. But for my own lovely wife I would be happy to inscribe a ring AVIP.

What a lovely idea. Go for it.


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## nooby

I'd go with Verus Amor Infinitum Promittit. because here, you wanna put the attention to "verus" and not "amor". As your quote says, hte important thing is the TRUE love. It says many loves can happen but only the TRUE one gives the infinite (checked on the web, your italian translation is totally good).

So Verus Amor is way better than Amor Verus


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## wandle

I would agree with Scholiast's word order. The standard Latin order is that the adjective follows the noun. That is what would be expected.
Since Latin uses declined forms (endings) to express meaning, it is both possible and usual to vary word order for emphasis.  However, you would not in practice depart from the normal order except for a meaningful addition to, or change in the sense.
The point here is that no real difference is conveyed by inverting the order of 'amor verus'. 'Verus' as the second word takes the greatest emphasis after 'amor' and is thus already very strong. If 'verus' went first, you would not know what it was  that was being called true until you arrive at 'amor'.
Thus, seeing there is no real benefit from the change, I would recommend staying with the normal order 'amor verus'.


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## thepunkrider

Thx to you all for helping. that's really nice and I trully appreciate. Just found some similar sentence on the web: Verus amor nullum novit habere modum that would stand for "true love has no limits"

I guess both are grammatically correct (somehow). I should work on my latin! ;-)

thanks again nice people!


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## nooby

Both are correct, but my sentence is better, trust me


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## Scholiast

Greetings

nooby writes (#13)


> Both are correct, but my sentence is better, trust me



I cannot, nor will, dispute nooby's command of Latin idiom. Nor is he (or she) incorrect to say that "both are correct". But I am moved to wonder on what basis she, or he, claims the right to say that "my sentence is better". Reasons, please, nooby.


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## nooby

Already said why My sentence is better: emphasizing the "Verus" word (because only the TRUE love gives the infinite).

What I said is sufficient by itself, and by myself. if I say this is better, then it is better. Take it as a fact


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## Scholiast

Greetings

In response to nooby's note (#15), all I can say is that this is proof by assertion, which is no proof at all. Nooby may care to bear in mind that, one way and another, I have been studying and teaching Latin language and literature for more decades than I care to remember. I think I know what I am talking about. And lest I be thought to be indulging in "proof by assertion" myself, let me cite Gildersleeve/Lodge (§ 291 of the 1965 reprint edn., London/New York): "When the attribute is emphatic, it is commonly put before the substantive, _otherwise in classical Latin ordinarily after it_". [My emphasis]

In the original poster's question, the emphasis is on "Love", not on "*true* [as opposed to "false"/"pretended"/"unfaithful"/"disingenuous"] love". Therefore _amor verus_ is required here.

"Trust me. Take it as a fact."


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## Outsider

Two remarks:

1) Romance languages are probably a poor guide for Latin syntax. Having said this, I wonder if one of the possibilities _amor verus_ or _verus amor_ isn't already a set phrase in Latin.

2) How about placing _infinitum_ at the end of the phrase, if this is allowed? My impression is that "delaying" this adjective until the end would give the expression greater impact.


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## Scholiast

Greetings

Outsider writes:



> 1) Romance languages are probably a poor guide for Latin syntax. Having said this, I wonder if one of the possibilities _amor verus_ or _verus amor_ isn't already a set phrase in Latin.



First, we are not discussing _syntax_ here. We are discussing _idiom_. And in this respect, Romance tendencies are rather a good guide to Latin usage, though admittedly not as good as the Latin writers themselves.

Secondly, there is to the best of my knowledge of Latin literature, no "set phrase" on the lines of _amor verus_ or _verus amor_, whether in prose or poetry.


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## thepunkrider

Dear all,

Thanks again for helping me.

Regarding the "set phrase", I've found some Propertius quote (which I don't know if correctly rederred on the web) "verus amor nullum novit habere modum"
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/prop2.html or http://www.evandre.info/fichiers.php?id=102&type=html&action=visu) in "Propertius book 2" standing for 'the true love doesn't know limits"

Any thoughts?

thx again, trully appreciating


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## Scholiast

Greetings once again

thepunkrider (#19) i quite right: this pentameter line is indeed to be found at Propertius 2.15.30. But it should be pointed out that word-order in verse seldom conforms with the "ordinary" principles of the naturally spoken language or of written prose, since the strict metrical requirements often demand or at least encourage _traiectio verborum_, inversions of e.g. subject and verb, postpositional usages of prepositions &c.

Anyone who has tried his hand at Latin verse composition can tell you that writing effective pentameters in particular is a strenuous exercise, not least because the sense is required to be end-stopped (in continuous hexameters or hendecasyllables, by contrast, the poet has the option of enjambment).

Of course you could just take the Propertian line _tout entière_ for your motto.

Best wishes


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## wandle

Agree with Scholiast. The normal word order 'amor verus' is impossible at the beginning of this pentameter, for metrical reasons. The line has to begin with a long syllable. That rule forced the writer to depart from normal prose order.


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## thepunkrider

Thanks a lot guys!

Time to decide has come and I'll go with A.V.I.P (Amor Verus Infinitum Promittit) because the original quote (Papal one) was more of an encouragement to act than poetry.

Besides, this is a bad reason, but AVIP looks better to me than VAIP!

Thanks again, I trully appreciate the help you've provided to a total stranger. At least, your work while stand all our lives on our love symbol, which is quite a good thing I guess.

thanks again


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