# my level of russian has gone down the drain



## pagetools

how would this phrase be translated?
thanks


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## Moro12

I would say
Мой русский стал хуже. (The shortest version), or:
Мой уровень знания русского языка ухудшился. (More formal)
Мой уровень владения русским языком стал хуже.

However, I don't personally like how the last 2 sentences sound. Grammatically they are correct, but the wording is somewhat ugly.

Other opinions?


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## Moro12

It seems like you need to compare it with something...
Try this:
Я раньше говорил по-русски лучше, но сейчас мой уровень упал.
(Lit.: Before I spoke Russian better, but now my level fell down.)
It's not the same wording as in your example, but sounds much better and natural.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

В общем, "мой уровень русского упал ниже плинтуса"...


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## LilianaB

I love this one.


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## MIDAV

Can I just say "Мой уровень русского ушел в трубу"?
 Sounds a bit strange but very close to the original. Then again, to me the original sounds a bit strange too


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## morzh

No you can't. It makes no sense in Russian, being a very bad calque from English.

There's one expression in Russian "въiлететь в трубу", and it means "to go bankrupt".


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## morzh

Moro12 said:


> I would say
> Мой русский стал хуже. (The shortest version), or:
> Мой уровень знания русского языка ухудшился. (More formal)
> Мой уровень владения русским языком стал хуже.
> 
> However, I don't personally like how the last 2 sentences sound. Grammatically they are correct, but the wording is somewhat ugly.
> 
> Other opinions?



Moro,

Down the drain - means "gone to waste", "worthless", "has disappeared due to worthless activity".

Actually, I'd like to ask Pagetools first if he is sure of the usage here, as to me it is not quite possible to make the "level of Russian" to go down the drain; I think it is not quite correct usage of the idiom (which happens often).

I can say:

My money's gone down the drain. - мои деньги потерянъi
My effort's gone down the drain. - мои усилия растраченъi понапрасну
My Russian's gone down the drain. - мой русский совсем ушел (полностьч забъiт)

But the "level of Russian" , unlike Russian itself, is something measurable, and cannot disappear. Level is ALWAYS there, it can only be higher or lower. So it CANNOT go down the drain.

Now, if you rephrase:

"My Russian's gone down the drain" - мой Русский совсем ушел / мой русский исчез.


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## MIDAV

morzh said:


> It makes no sense in Russian, being a very bad calque from English.


Yes, that was my point - if it makes no sense in English, it should also make no sense in translation (in the same senseless way)


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## morzh

MIDAV said:


> Yes, that was my point - if it makes no sense in English, it should also make no sense in translation (in the same senseless way)




Then it makes "double no sense" in Russian , as 1) I am not sure it makes sense in English, and 2) Even if it does, the translation cannot be a simple calque.


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## rusita preciosa

MIDAV said:


> it makes no sense in English


Why do you think it makes no sense in English? It is a very common phrase that everyone is familiar with + it provides a pretty good image of something going to waste.


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## morzh

rusita preciosa said:


> Why do you think it makes no sense in English? It is a very common phrase that everyone is familiar with + it provides a pretty good image of something going to waste.



He did not say it makes no sense in English.
The doubt is about this phrase used to the word "level".

Every idiom means something or stands for some action, or...... Every meaning/action has its range of usability.
Using "down the drain" towards "level" may be successfully compared to usage of "растрачен понапрасну / псу под хвост" к слову "уровень".
Уровень/level is a measure, a gauge, a value. What can go to drain is what you measure, but the value of it (absolute value, not "valuable value, of course") cannot go to drain - it is always there, it is either 0, or 1, or 10, or bad, or good, or intermediate, but what's gone down the drain is what you've measured, the language itself. But not its level.

This is what was meant by Midav and myself. None of us denied the existence of "down the drain" idiom.


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## morzh

You know what I'll do?
I'll just go to English forum and ask if it can be used that way.


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## gvozd

Моржу там сказали, что сочетаемость хреновая Я видел!


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## morzh

Да,

вот ответ нейтив-спикером из Дерби, Англия:

>>>To me, "level" doesn't fit with "going down the drain", for the reason that you set out in post 1).

Ну, если слово переводится в точности с одного язъiка на другой (level - уровень), то и логика использования его должна бъiть схожей. Хотя я просто исходил из своего опъiта - поговорка КРАЙНЕ популярна, слъiшишь ее чуть ни каждъий день, и примерная схема применения становится ясна.


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## LilianaB

Well, yes Morzh, perhaps this is true, but I still think that the translations in Russian reflected the sense that the poster wanted to express: that the level of his Russian has become really poor.


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## morzh

LilianaB said:


> Well, yes Morzh, perhaps this is true, but I still think that the translations in Russian reflected the sense that the poster wanted to express: that the level of his Russian has become really poor.



Liliana,

What we should not be doing is to try to translate an incorrect usage in the first place, until it is either proven otherwise, or corrected. We are not here to "get the sense of what a person's trying to say".

Say it right, then we'll translate it.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

gvozd said:


> Моржу там сказали, что сочетаемость хреновая Я видел!



Ага, а вот следующие 7 сообщений... И кстати, можно ли сказать "мой русский пошел псу под хвост"?


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## LilianaB

I think it is trendy now to change the dog for a cat in this expression.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

LilianaB said:


> I think it is trendy now to change the dog for a cat in this expression.


Well, I don't know whether it's trendy, but it's certainly possible...


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## LilianaB

I think they they use it with_ cat_ now more often.


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## morzh

Carrot Ironfoundersson said:


> Ага, а вот следующие 7 сообщений... И кстати, можно ли сказать "мой русский пошел псу под хвост"?



Да, там мнения разделились пополам. Однако, аргумент одного из тех, кто считает ето возможнъiм, такой: Idioms are there to be used loosely (in my opinion).
У меня в любом язъikе с такой позицией неладъi.

Если мъi, скажем, здесь учим людей использовать русские идиомъi, и скажем им, что, мол, не волнуйтесь - их можно использовать довольно свободно....я не уверен, что ето будет хорошим советом.

Далеко ходить незачем.
Возьмем то же "псу под хвост", и применим ето к "уровню".
"Мой уровень английского пошел псу под хвост".

На вопрос "как уровень может пойти псу под хвост", я отвечаю: "ето - идиома, ее применение слаборегулируемо, и вообще ето - разговорнъi язъiк".
Сколько человек со мною согласятся?
Мало, я думаю.

Я могу сказать, однако:"все мои занятия английским пошли псу под хвост".


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## morzh

Carrot Ironfoundersson said:


> ....кстати, можно ли сказать "мой русский пошел псу под хвост"?



Да, наверное, можно так сказать. Но только, я думаю, в определеннъiх случаях.
Если трактовать "псу под хвост" как "пропал понапрасну", то можно вот когда:
Если здесь под "русским" будут подразумеваться все те усилия, которъе бъiли потраченъi на его изучение, то "мой русский - псу под хвост" будет означать "вот, я учил, учил, а он никому не нужен".

Если, однако, русский - Ваш родной язъiк, то даже если он пропадает понапрасну, но никаких усилий к его изучению Въi не прилагали, то сказать "псу под хвост" не получится.
Потому что "псу под хвост" четко употребляется к "напрасно потеряннъiм усилиям / средствам".

- За лекарства заплатил, а ей не лучше. Тъiсячу рублей - псу под хвост.
- Строил дом, два месяца пластался - все ураганом смело. Лето - псу под хвост.


Однако, подумавши, я бъi все же к "русский" "псу под хвост" не употреблял. А только к усилиям на его изучение.


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## Moro12

I agree with Liliana. I have rarely ever heard "псу под хвост", "коту под хвост" seems to be natural.


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## morzh

I'd say either one is equally good.
I also think either one is not a good translation for what Pagetools asked.


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## Explorer41

MIDAV said:


> Can I just say "Мой уровень русского ушел в трубу"?
> Sounds a bit strange but very close to the original. Then again, to me the original sounds a bit strange too


"Мой уровень русского утёк в канализацию" 

Кстати, а ведь если человек теряет язык, то одновременно исчезает и его уровень владения языком. Так что логика есть. Правда, шаманская.

==============

*pagetools*, I think the discussion will be more productive if you offer us the circumstances in which you'd like to use this phrase.


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## morzh

Explorer41 said:


> "Мой уровень русского утёк в канализацию"
> 
> Кстати, а ведь если человек теряет язык, то одновременно исчезает и его уровень владения языком. Так что логика есть. Правда, шаманская.
> 
> ==============
> 
> *pagetools*, I think the discussion would be more productive if you offered us the circumstances in which you'd like to use this phrase.




Можжьно...можжьно....но труттно...труттно.....


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## morzh

Pagetools,

In a nutshell, here's the lowdown for you of what's happened so far: 

1. We had our doubts about the usability of "gone down the drain" towards something like "level", due to the fact that the idiom means either waste or disappearance of something. Neither can be really applied to the "level".
2. I went on the English forum and asked: the answers divided 50/50, some people think it is unusable, and some - usable.
3. In any case, the same logic that made me go there and ask, precludes several of us (at least) from properly translating it into Russian, as the "level" in Russian cannot be wasted or disappear, by the virtue of its very nature.
4. If you ditch the "level" and leave "Russian", and the meaning is "*My Russian has disappeared*", it can then translate as:
"*Мой русский пропал понапрасну / пропал даром*".
5. If by using "down the drain" you meant the "efforts to learn Russian", which indeed can be wasted (but not disappear), hence "go down the tubes", then it can be:
*Все мои усилия вьiучитъ русский пропали даром / Все мои усилия вьiучитъ русский пошли псу под хвост / Все мои усилия вьiучитъ русский пошли коту под хвост.*


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

1. Соглашусь, что "пойти псу/коту под хвост" скорее относится к потраченным впустую усилиям или средствам.

2. 





PaulQ said:


> If X goes down the drain, then X has suffered a  catastrophic decline in a desirable (but often nebulous) attribute.
> 
> Education, the standard of policing, the NHS, the behaviour of young  people, the pub down the road, the Pound, the level of services in  restaurants, the quality of bread, England, Europe, the world, have all  gone down the drain.
> 
> In fact, I cannot think of anything that cannot go (and, indeed, has not gone) down the drain.
> 
> (Yours, disgusted, Tunbridge Wells)



Так что, возможно, мое первое предложение(с плинтусом) не так уж далеко от истины...


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## morzh

Оно бъiло бъi вообще очень близко к истине (а, может, и есть), если Pagetools имел в виду то же, что мъi с Вами думаем - т.е., то, что его уровень русского сильно упал.


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## morzh

Moro12 said:


> I agree with Liliana. I have rarely ever heard "псу под хвост", "коту под хвост" seems to be natural.



Actually, I took liberty to do Google search to compare the frequency of occurance of both:

Here are the results:

Коту под хвост: 
Search - About 8,890,000 results

Псу под хвост:
Search - About 8,410,000 results

Not that different.


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