# Dutch:  "H" sound



## Toadie

Is the Dutch "H" sound pronounced?


----------



## floridasnowbird

Yes, in the standard  Dutch language of the Netherlands (often called Holland, which is not quite correct) it is pronounced. In some Flemish areas of Belgium it is not always pronounced the same way as it is in the Netherlands. By the way, more than one half of the population in Belgium speaks Dutch, the others speak French, and a very small percentage German.


----------



## Spectre scolaire

floridasnowbird said:
			
		

> In some Flemish areas of Belgium it is not always pronounced the same way as it is in the Netherlands.


 Could we have a more precise indication as to how the Dutch phoneme /h/ is pronounced in Flemish if it is not pronounced ?   

Is there any option of _not_ pronouncing it in Dutch?! –excluding, obviously, the case of a Belgian native speaker of French?

I consider Flemish and Dutch to be the same language, but there are of course quite a number of different dialects. As for the phoneme /r/, the question is a rather complicated one. But let’s stick to /h/.

Frisian is, on the other hand, a separate language – with its dialects. 

PS: I hope we are not ending up now in the same quagmire of “language” versus “dialect”...
 ​


----------



## awanzi

I know that in Belgium they don't say the H when speaking the "Tussentaal" (between standard Nederlands and the dialect). But it is allways pronounced otherwise.


----------



## floridasnowbird

awanzi said:


> I know that in Belgium they don't say the H when speaking the "Tussentaal" (between standard Nederlands and the dialect). But it is allways pronounced otherwise.


 
The "h" is, as I said, often pronounced differently from the standard Dutch language, or it is not pronounced at all. For further information: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch-language 
(see "Dialects")

The Flemish dialect *can* be so different that people in the Netherlands, not even 100 km away from Flemish Belgium, would not understand what Flemish people were *saying*. The *written* language differs slightly in some minor points only. In the Netherlands, you often see subtitles on tv when Flemish people speak their dialect, as it is so hard for them (in Holland) to understand what they mean.

Very rarely, only in some cases, the Dutch "h" is not pronounced, even in the standard language. Example: *het* huis = the house would normally (not always !) pronounced as *'t* huis, and that's why it is sometimes written that way, too.

Spectre scolaire, you are right, the "r" would be another difference, as well as (and even more) the "g". 

When I was studying the Dutch language, I used to speak Dutch as it is spoken in Rotterdam (Holland), and I still do. Later I had a scholarship at a university near Hasselt (in Belgium). Sitting in a pub one night, I could not even understand what people were talking about, let alone having a conversation with them. Some years later, when I became a teacher for the Dutch language at a German university, it was a professor from Belgium (!) who recommended me to the university. And I still had some difficulties to understand him, when I had to "qualify myself". Belgian mentality and dialect are so different from what I was used to in Rotterdam. O.K., I am talking about tempi passati, now I am just a snowbird in Florida (during the winter).

Groetjes!!


----------



## Frank06

Hi,


Spectre scolaire said:


> Could we have a more precise indication as to how the Dutch phoneme /h/ is pronounced in Flemish if it is not pronounced ?



Well, in the *Dutch standard language* as spoken in *Flanders*, /h/ is always pronounced (except in the case of <het>, as explained by Floridasnowbird).
That's a simple rule for every student in Flanders learning the standard tongue.

However, as a student in Flanders, you _will_ be confronted with the dialects: there is no escape. Floridasnowbird's reaction/experiences is far from unusual . Among the colleagues (teachers Dutch second language dealing with immigrants) we have the silly joke that in a few years we'll recognize the immigrants and other non-natives because *they* (and only they) will speak Standard Dutch, as opposed to the majority of the 'native' population in Flanders.

Anyway, in the various *dialects *spoken in Flanders, the situation is slightly more complicated than in the standard language. _Roughly_ put (and from west to east):
1. West-Flemish (Flemish proper): the distribution of the phonemes /h/ and /x/ differs markedly from the standard one. In short: the word <geel> is pronounced with /h/, the word <heel> with /x/.
2. Brabantian: /h/ is hardly (never) pronounced.
3. Limburgian: /h/ is (mostly) pronounced.
Needless to say that (1) the boundaries between these three big dialect groups are not clear cut and (2) that the explanation above is a only very rough outline.

Groetjes,

Frank

PS: On these message boards, a lot has been written about 'Flemish' and 'Dutch'. What the standard language(s?) are concerned in both Flanders and the Netherlands, I want to give the link of the Dutch National TV (NOS) and the Flemish national radio station (Radio 1), so you can hear them and decide yourselves whether you hear one language or two . The newsreaders on *both* channels speak what is considered the standard language(s?) in their country (the Netherlands) or region (Flanders).


----------



## awanzi

I hear two of them!! And I understand the second better.


----------



## jonquiliser

Well, yes, as has already been stated quite clearly, in "standard Dutch" h is pronounced. I had, however, the luck p) of being in West-vlaanderen during my year in Belgium, and what was spoken in that part was quite different from what was thought in language class...  H:s were *not* pronounced, or rather, what sounded like a standard-language-h was in reality the g:s. After a while I got somewhat of a hang of it, but I still couldn't say, by a long shot, that I understand the dialect of the people of that town in particular.. It is, as are so many dialects/languages, lovely, but cryptic for the uninitiated 

Edit: Frank06, thanks for posting those links!


----------



## Spectre scolaire

Thanks! A surprisingly interesting development of a thread! This is all very useful information. 

I feel like making a contribution to the general euphoria about this language and its dialects:

I learned Dutch during my student years in France. Two consecutive summers I worked in Hillegom, west of Amsterdam. Many years later, while living in Brussels, I had the opportunity to brush up on my Dutch. But Brussels is véяy _francophone,_ and linguistic fieldwork in various provinces of Belgium was never on the agenda.

And you don’t really learn the distribution of /h/ in DutchFlemish through regular reading of _De Standaard_...
 ​


----------



## argentina84

Hallo!  m*ijn naam is Marilyn. I really don't know any Dutch, only some words, but I have become interested in it, mainly in it's pronunciation. And I have a question: the "h" sound is always pronounced? and it is produced as the English "h", I mean...does it sound the same as in English? *
*I would really appreciate your help. I cannot find teachers of Dutch here in Buenos Aires...*
 
*bedankt*


----------



## Frank06

Hi,


argentina84 said:


> Hallo! mijn naam is Marilyn. I really don't know any Dutch, only some words, but I have become interested in it, mainly in it's pronunciation. And I have a question: the "h" sound is always pronounced? and it is produced as the English "h", I mean...does it sound the same as in English?
> I would really appreciate your help. I cannot find teachers of Dutch here in Buenos Aires...


In my experience, Spanish speaking students can have quite some problems with (Dutch) /h/.
Here you find some sound files and sound clips. This might also be interesting. All the examples are from the Netherlands.

I hope it helps. 

Groetjes,

Frank


----------



## argentina84

Thank you very much! Let us see if I can be the exception to the rule!

_*bedankt !*_


----------



## Eáránë

Hey Frank,

I think you explained the use of the /h/ very well, but I would like to add something. I don't think that people from West-Flanders make a difference between /h/ and /x/ at all. We just pronounce everything with an /h/. For example, we pronounce 'geel' and 'heel' in the same way. (But that's my opinion. Maybe you have come across examples to the contrary) That's why it makes it even more difficult for foreigners to understand our language. In the Netherlands people even pronounce 'geel' with a uvular /X/ (at the back of your throat) so there is a big difference with the West-Flemish pronunciaton of 'geel' with an /h/.

Greetz
Eáránë


----------

