# kunt vs. kon



## Dino-Fly

Would you say:
Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands *kon *spreken.
or
Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands *kunt *spreken.


Thanks!


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## Brownpaperbag

Hi,

I'd say

Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands sprak,

of 

Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands kon spreken.

(to maintain a consistent use of the past simple).

Brown


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## Lopes

Well, in this specific case I would say "Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands sprak", but in other cases it'd be "Ik wist niet dat je kon praten" "Ik wist niet dat je kon schrijven" etc

What Brownpaperbag said


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## HKK

Dino-Fly said:


> Would you say:
> Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands *kon *spreken.
> or
> Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands *kunt *spreken.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Hi Dino-Fly,
the first option is the correct one in terms of the tenses. However, "het" is out of place in this sentence. Also, the auxiliary verb "kunnen" is not commonly used in reference to speaking a language. So:
Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands *sprak*.
For some reason the other option doesn't sound too bad to me, maybe the other natives can comment on that...
Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands *spreekt*.

I believe the 'rules' are adhered to more strictly when an auxiliary verb is used:
Ik dacht dat je niet *kon *koken.
I've never heard:
Ik dacht dat je niet *kan *koken.

edit: Wow, I got beaten by Brownpaperbag *and* Lopes while composing my colorful post


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## Joannes

*Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands kon (spreken)* works for me, tbh, perhaps rather without *spreken*.


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## elroy

This is very interesting!  I would have expected Dutch to be more like German, but it's actually more like English.  In English, it would be "I didn't know you *spoke *Dutch" whereas in German it would be "Ich wusste nicht, dass Du Niederländisch *sprichst/kannst*."


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## Dominiekske

I'd say

Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands sprak. (I didn't know you spoke Dutch)
Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands kende. (I didn't know you knew Dutch)

or (but this option is less "beautiful" because of the inconsistency of the past/present tense):

Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands spreekt/kent. (I didn't know you speak/know Dutch)

The reason why you wouldn't say "*Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands sprak" is that the phrase would have two objects in that case: "het" and "dat je Nederlands sprak", and there can only ever be one. It would be like saying "*I didn't know it that you spoke Dutch".


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## Chimel

Dominiekske said:


> or (but this option is less "beautiful" because of the inconsistency of the past/present tense):
> 
> Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands spreekt/kent.


But I suppose it would be:

"Hij wist zelfs niet dat Stockholm de hoofdstad van Zweden is!"

In this case, there is no inconsistency of tenses, or am I wrong?


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## Lopes

Dominiekske said:


> Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands spreekt/kent. (I didn't know you speak/know Dutch)



I'd say that is incorrect, just as it's English translation



Dominiekske said:


> The reason why you wouldn't say "*Ik wist het niet dat je Nederlands sprak" is that the phrase would have two objects in that case: "het" and "dat je Nederlands sprak", and there can only ever be one. It would be like saying "*I didn't know it that you spoke Dutch".



Actually you could say that, with a comma after het (maybe better is 'that'). There are really 2 frases: the principal frase and the subordinate frase, and they can have different objects. Just like you can say "Ik vind het niet echt leuk dat je me Fred noemt" or "Ik was vergeten dat je vandaag jarig bent"

Edit: Chimel, your example makes me doubt..


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## Brownpaperbag

Chimel said:


> But I suppose it would be:
> 
> "Hij wist zelfs niet dat Stockholm de hoofdstad van Zweden is!"
> 
> In this case, there is no inconsistency of tenses, or am I wrong?


 
Hi,

I think it has to do with whether the situation has changed or not:

"Hij wist zelfs niet dat Stockholm de hoofdstad van Zweden is!" This is a fact, it hasn't changed. 

Here, you can also use _was_, it's optional.

If, on the other hand, you report a finished situation, you must use the past tense. The same when you contradict someone, or when you confront a present situation with how you thought it was:

"Ik wist niet dat je Nederlands sprak".


Brown


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## Dominiekske

Lopes said:


> I'd say that is incorrect, just as it's English translation
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you could say that, with a comma after het (maybe better is 'that'). There are really 2 frases: the principal frase and the subordinate frase, and they can have different objects. Just like you can say "Ik vind het niet echt leuk dat je me Fred noemt" or "Ik was vergeten dat je vandaag jarig bent"
> 
> Edit: Chimel, your example makes me doubt..



I don't think it's incorrect, it wouldn't sound strange to me if somebody said it. Does it sound wrong to you?

And you're right about "Ik wist het niet, dat je Nederlands sprak" being correct, but that isn't the normal/standard way of saying it. I can't really think of a context in which I'd say it like that.

The Sweden example made me hesitate too, I don't know why it is correct to use a different tense there...


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## Chimel

We often have questions about indirect speech in the French forum. I would be interested to know if the rules (or the speech habits) are the same in Dutch - this would be fine to me and make things easier... 

a) Ik wist niet dat jij hier *woonde*
OK: traditional rule of tense consistency

b) Ik wist niet dat jij hier *woont*
"Modern" use, more oral speech and colloquial, is now allowed (although some may find it ugly), especially when it is about a general fact which never changes (like the Stockholm example).

The second form is also more and more widespread with a future tense:
a) Hij heeft gezegd dat hij zou komen = he said "ik zal komen" in direct speech, but people tend to understand it as the indirect form of "ik zou eventueel komen". Therefore, they tend to say:

b) Hij heeft gezegd dat hij zal komen.

So far for the French "rules", thus. Can you confirm that it is nearly the same in Dutch or tell me the differences? Thanks a lot!


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## Dominiekske

Yep, that's all correct, exactly the same I'd say


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