# General pronunciation: RP / Received Pronunciation



## cyberpedant

What are the origin and meaning of the term, "Received pronunciation?"

Received from whom?


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## SPQR

cyberpedant said:


> What are the origin and meaning of the term, "Received pronunciation?"
> 
> Received from whom?


 
Do you have an entire sentence, a little context?


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## cyberpedant

"Received Pronunciation" is a term used to designate a type of spoken (British) English. I'd like to know what the natives (Brits) think about it.


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## panjandrum

Received, in this context, should mean generally accepted and approved.  The "by whom" question does not arise - if it did, the answer would perhaps be "society", but would really be "those who have influence".

If you do a forum search here and in Cultural Discussions for -
received pronunciation
- or -
RP
- you will find many references and plenty of discussion.

For a general perspective on the position of RP in modern Britain, listen to BBC News programmes on radio or television.  I don't mean that they will discuss the topic.


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## Murphy

It's supposedly the "Queen's English" which was once considered the best way to speak and was consequently used to teach pronunciation to foreign students of English.  These days it's mostly considered out-of-date and elitist.  After all, how many people really speak like the Queen!

In my opinion, it's actually had a negative effect in teaching good pronunciation, in particular here in Italy, where I find many people mispronounce the letter "a" in a word - eg. "cat" or "bag", which they pronounce "ket" and "beg".  I can only imagine that this has come about through a misunderstanding of the rules of RP.


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## panjandrum

Read the Wiki entry here.

[And read how the Queen has been modifying her pronunciation HERE.]


Edited to remove the link that no longer works -- alas! Cagey, moderator


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## LV4-26

Murphy said:


> It's supposedly the "Queen's English" [...]


Could you people explain what exactly "speak the Queen's English" means? Does it only refer to pronunciation or does it concern vocabulary and grammar as well?
The reason I'm asking is that I was told by English people that I spoke "the Queen's English".


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## panjandrum

So, what is the Queen’s English?

This contribution is drawn from the Oxford Companion to the English Language.​ 
Queen’s English? – see King’s English.​ 
King’s English?
This is a traditional term in the UK that is more or less the logical equivalent of “standard English”, though it is older. Shakespeare used it. Originally a term of approval, it has come to be used with less respect and reverence – and indeed it has come to be lampooned: for example in a book by Sir Vere Brayne-d’Hemmidge that was sold with a bookmark and instructions to hold the bookmark between the teeth while speaking in order to assist with the accent.​ 
The Fowler brothers published “The King’s English” in 1906. This was intended to be a general usage manual for English, definitely not a grammar book. It covers many areas of usage, but says nothing substantive about pronunciation.​ 
From the same source came Fowler’s Modern English Usage, and New Fowler’s Modern English Usage. I have quoted extensively from both of these.​ 
The most important point I take from this is that the concept of “The Queen’s English” means nothing more, or less, than “good English”.​


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## panjandrum

So, what is received pronunciation?

The Oxford Companion to the English Language has two full pages discussing this topic.  I really don't have the stamina to summarise this, but I will offer some extracts/ quotes.

RP is the theoretically received pronunciation of literary English (1869).

RP is often referred to as the spoken embodiment of a variety, or varieties, of English known variously as the Queen's English, the King's English, BBC English, Oxford English and Public School English.

Alternatively, it is known as talking proper, or talking posh.

Many of us consider RP a mark not of education or proper English but an indicator of anachronistic social class and in particular of air-headed aspirations to imperialist social domination.

There is a presumption among students of EFL that RP is dominant and superior.  It is definitely not a majority pronunciation.  Views on whether it is dominant and superior depend on whether you are an RP pronouncer or not.

Personally I am not.

I poke fun at the RP announcers who tell me about Laura Norder when they should be talking about law and order.  They say "Goodbye from Oliver Seer," when they are bidding farewell from all of us here.

Enough, OK?


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## cuchuflete

panjandrum said:


> The Fowler brothers published “The King’s English” in 1906. This was intended to be a general usage manual for English, definitely not a grammar book. It covers many areas of usage, but says nothing substantive about pronunciation.​
> From the same source came Fowler’s Modern English Usage, and New Fowler’s Modern English Usage. I have quoted extensively from both of these.​ ​



Just for fun, and written in an accent light years away from RP, here are some details about the Fowler brothers and the title.  

The brothers had been asked to suggest a title for the new book when they sent in their first sample piece of text and had offered a selection—'The New Solecist', 'The Book of Solecisms', or even 'The Clarendon Press Book of Solecisms'.  ...eventually Oxford asked for something better, a title to 'compel the public to buy and yet not look too catchpenny'.  Henry Bradley was asked for a suggestion, 'something less erudite than "the New Solecist" but not vulgar', but he could only think of 'Bad and Good English: Chapters on Common Faults in Composition'.    The Warden of English, _The Life of H. W. Fowler
_Jenny McMorris, Oxford U.P., 2001, ISBN 0-19-866254-8


According to that biography, "someone" came up with the title, but it was not either of the Fowlers.


​


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## clairanne

Hi

English or any other language is a means of communication and as such should be clear and understandable to listeners. If you cultivate any "accent" to excess you will not be understood by all people. A good example is the way that young people use language to exclude people by using artificial accents and slang expressions, such as kids being born and bred in London suddenly sounding as if they are American rappers. 

I think these days RP should strive to be as neutral as possible and avoid any heavy accent whether it be "posh" or "common" so that you can fit in anywhere with all classes of people. You will hear this with the BBC announcers who, even if they have regional accents use standard grammar and avoid making their accents too heavy.


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## cyberpedant

Thank you all for your opinions. Most enlightening.

cp


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## Babbit

Do actors have an RP accent in the most of the UK films?
I guess they should have a standard accent, don't they?


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## GavinW

Babbit said:


> Do actors have an RP accent in the most of the UK films?
> I guess they should have a standard accent, don't they?



No, thank God. ;-)


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## natkretep

In the past, yes. Regional accents are common in contemporary films.


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## Klavier

What about Southern Standard English? Is the same as RP? What's the difference?


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## natkretep

I would use the term to refer to refer to the variety in terms of its grammar and vocabulary rather than the accent.


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## Klavier

So, if we just take into account the pronunciation of vowels and consonants, they will be interchangeable? They used this expression (SSE) not RP, in the pronunciation videos the bbc made at its site, so I got confused.


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## berndf

panjandrum said:


> The "by whom" question does not arise


Yes it does, The answer is "by educated people". And, in Jones's original definition, "educated" means "having undergone public school education".


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## Loob

Hello, Klavier

Can you give us an example of the use of the term "Southern Standard English"?  
I haven't come across it myself, so I'm not sure how it might differ from "Received Pronunciation".

(Personally, I use the term "standard English" to refer to issues of grammar rather than pronunciation.)


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## Klavier

Hi loob
The bbc has a pronunciation course that I suppose it's RP, but in this introductory video and in the other videos, the teacher doesn't use the term RP but Southern Standard English, so I don't know if this is the way we should refer to that kind of pronunctiation now or what, also I'm not 100 per cent sure if they are the same
I'll leave some links 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/pron/sounds/con_other_6.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/pron/


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## london calling

I think that SSE and RP are slightly different. I would define my pronunciation as SSE, given that I do not speak with a London (i.e. regional) accent although of course I can, being a Londoner and I do not speak RP, which was, once upon a time, known as "BBC English", given that years ago there were no BBC speakers with a regional accent at all. What I mean is that I think SSE means "accentless" English (one may argue that RP is not a an accent, as some people do, but I don't agree with that point of view, personally).


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## eli7

Could you please name some actors/actresses or any famous people that speak with RP accent?
I have no idea how it means when pronouncing words. Offering some examples of the way RP suggests to pronounce words would be appreciated.


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## boozer

John Hurt - IMDb
Charles Dance - IMDb
Michael Gambon - IMDb

Here are some who speak fantastic English - the kind of English that once made me begin to speak the language in the first place. One was born in Ireland, but I have heard him speak what I regard as flawless RP.
I do not really know how they speak in their everyday lives, but I would be surprised if their English was drastically different from what I have heard in their films.


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## natkretep

Yes, excellent actors. If you want some younger ones, consider James Norton, Eddie Redmayne, Benedict Cumberbatch and Rosamund Pike. If you like nature programmes, you might be more familiar with David Attenborough.


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## Oddmania

On the ladies' side: Keira Knightley, Emma Thompson, Helena Bonham Carter, Kate Winslet, and of course, Judi Dench. Cate Blanchett speaks 'Cultivated Australian English', but as far as I can tell, it's pretty much R.P. (by contrast, Nicole Kidman has a fairly broader Australian accent). Eva Green is French, but also speaks R.P (as best as she can, if nothing else. Most of the North American speakers I've talked to thought she was British, but the British speakers seemed to see right through it and could tell she had a fairly thick French accent).


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## cyberpedant

What about Sir Patrick Stewart (Captain Jean-Luc Picard of Star Trek)? How would you describe his accent?


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## eli7

Oddmania said:


> Helena Bonham Carter


I totally remember her accent, clearly in Sweeney Todd. Is it correct to say that RP is strong and thick British accent?

I am not familiar with most of the actors introduced here. Is there any website or something that I can download a voice track of them?


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## PaulQ

eli7 said:


> Is it correct to say that RP is strong and thick British accent?


No - quite the opposite. RP is considered "the standard of English  from (not 'by') which other versions are judged" - it is supposed to be entirely neutral.

A strong or thick accent would invariably be qualified by a geographical adjective: "He spoke with a strong _Scottish _accent." "He English was hardly intelligible as he spoke with a thick _Liverpudlian _accent."


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## Oddmania

eli7 said:


> I totally remember her accent, clearly in Sweeney Todd. Is it correct to say that RP is strong and thick British accent?


I didn't see _Sweeney Todd_ in English, but I remember the French voice actress said in a interview it was a bit of a challenge for her to do the voice-over because Carter slurs and clips a lot of words out in the film, so I assume she actually did somewhat of a *Cockney *accent, which is pretty much the opposite of R.P.

She had a neutral, R.P. accent in _A Room With A View, Howards End _and _Conversations With Other Women. _Youtube would be your best bet if you're looking for video clips.


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## ewie

boozer said:


> John Hurt - IMDb
> Charles Dance - IMDb
> Michael Gambon - IMDb





natkretep said:


> James Norton, Eddie Redmayne, Benedict Cumberbatch and Rosamund Pike.  David Attenborough.





Oddmania said:


> Keira Knightley, Emma Thompson, Helena Bonham Carter, Kate Winslet, and of course, Judi Dench.





cyberpedant said:


> Sir Patrick Stewart


By my definition _none_ of these speak (True/Classic) RP.  Judi Dench comes closest but it's still not the real thing.  For True/Classic RP search 'Trevor Howard Celia Johnson Brief Encounter', a film made in 1945.
RP still exists among some excruciatingly posh people, but British actors no longer speak it unless it's part of the characters they're playing ~ they'd be laughed at if they did.

_And Now For The Pointless Anecdote:_ A few years ago I was in a new & secondhand bookshop in a place called Hungerford, Berkshire.  I picked out a (secondhand) novel I fancied but found they were asking too much for it.  I decided to haggle (not something I normally do) and went to the counter to put my non-existent skills to the test.  _Can I make you an offer on this?_ I asked.  When the woman replied in absolutely flawless True RP I nearly fainted. So, my one encounter with True RP in the last half-century and I find I'm haggling over a couple of measly quid.  Yes, that was pretty pointless.


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## boozer

Well, Ewie, I don't know about RP, but the way Michael Gambon speaks in "Plunkett and Macleane" is markedly aristocratic. I have no idea if that makes it RP.


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## PaulQ

Received Pronunciation - Wikipedia is worth a read as it has an IPA pronunciation guide and indicates that there are varieties of RP. Whilst RP was originally described as "the English pronunciation taught at public schools" (i.e. fee-paying schools attended by the children of the upper-classes) in 1917, which is what ewie describes as "classic RP", current RP is perceived is spoken as Oddmania describes in #28.


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## ewie

What I forgot to say in post #32 is that the accent of all those actors and actresses is what I call SSE ~ see posts 17-23 above

EDIT: Funny you should mention Michael Gambon, Booz: I just saw him this evening in a crime drama called _Fearless_.  In it he plays a ... well, I'm not sure what his job is but it was something high up in the government ... or Civil Service ... under New Labour in 2003.  He speaks SSE in that, though it has to be said he sounds rather like someone who _originally_ spoke RP but _now_ speaks SSE (I don't think I've ever seen _Plunkett and Macleane_.)


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## heypresto

How would you describe the queen's current accent? It's changed quite a bit over the years - not nearly as excruciatingly cut-glass as it used to be.


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## natkretep

ewie said:


> By my definition _none_ of these speak (True/Classic) RP.


Would you accept that there are different kinds of RP, ewie? The British Library suggests that there is conservative, mainstream and contemporary RP:


> The various forms of RP can be roughly divided into three categories. *Conservative RP* refers to a very traditional variety particularly associated with older speakers and the aristocracy. *Mainstream RP* describes an accent that we might consider extremely neutral in terms of signals regarding age, occupation or lifestyle of the speaker. *Contemporary RP* refers to speakers using features typical of younger RP speakers. All, however, are united by the fact they do not use any pronunciation patterns that allow us to make assumptions about where they are from in the UK


Received Pronunciation


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## ewie

heypresto said:


> How would you describe the queen's current accent? It's changed quite a bit over the years - not nearly as excruciatingly cut-glass as it used to be.


I'd describe the Queen as 'a recovering RP-speaker'


natkretep said:


> Would you accept that there are different kinds of RP, ewie?


What I'd say instead, Nat, is that my definition of 'RP' is much much narrower than the one widely available: it refers only to what the British Library calls 'Conservative RP'.  Their 'Mainstream' is my SSE*.  I've no idea what their 'Contemporary' refers to

*I should also mention at this point that I talk what I call 'NSE', which is basically SSE but with retention of /a/ instead of /ɑː/, so /baθ/ not /bɑːθ/ for _bath_.  Speakers of SSE say I "have an accent", that I'm "Northern".  To which I reply that _they_ have an accent, they're Southern
To hear this accent you could search for 'BBC Climbing Great Buildings Trailer'.  In it the presenter Jonathan Foyle (who's from Lincolnshire) speaks 'SE' throughout, but 'slips up' on _answer_ /ansə/, _example_ /egzampəl/ (twice), and _after _/aftə/.


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## natkretep

Always pleased to hear your views, ewie! British Library says that Contemporary RP is the neutral sound of young middle-class speakers in England which might contain some features of local norms. They will have fronted vowels in _foot_ and _fool_. Someone from around London might perhaps occasionally incorporate features of London speech like the use of glottal stops (perhaps not between vowels though), or vocalise the final /l/.

Perhaps Estuary for you?


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## ewie

natkretep said:


> Perhaps Estuary for you?




See above.  (My post #38 came in for a lot of editing after I posted it)

EDIT: Or did you mean "Is this what you'd call 'Estuary'?"


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## natkretep

The latter? (I know you don't do Estuary. Not if you're from Lancashire with some Scottish connections.)


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## ewie

Yes that sounds pretty much like Estuary.  Despite its being spoken everywhere from Penzance to King's Lynn, there's no way I'd ever classify Estuary as a form of 'RP'  (I daresay Trevor Howard and Celia Johnson would be turning in their graves)



> from Lancashire with some Scottish connections


Don't forget the Canadian: my grandmother was Canadian and my dad, despite having lived 77 of his 82 years in England, spent a crucial five (aged 5-10, approx.) in Canada, surrounded by Canadians


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## heypresto

ewie said:


> I'd describe the Queen as 'a recovering RP-speaker'


In a recent thread, here, it was pointed out that, in her speech to Parliament she pronounces 'enhance' to rhyme with 'pants' and 'romance'. I was surprised (not to say shocked ) to discover that this was true.


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## ewie

We'll make a Northerner of her yet, HP


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## heypresto

As I said in the other thread, it is, after all, the 'Queen's English', so I guess she can do what she likes with it.


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## london calling

natkretep said:


> Always pleased to hear your views, ewie! British Library says that Contemporary RP is the neutral sound of young middle-class speakers in England which might contain some features of local norms. They will have fronted vowels in _foot_ and _fool_. Someone from around London might perhaps occasionally incorporate features of London speech like the use of glottal stops (perhaps not between vowels though), or vocalise the final /l/.
> 
> Perhaps Estuary for you?


I speak SSE. I was brought up speaking it and I must say that what they call Contemporary RP sounds similar to how I would describe  my accent, as when I heard myself in a video I noticed a few London sounds slipping in there but, believe me,  that don't make it  Estuary. 

PS. Add Jeremy Irons to the list.


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## sound shift

ewie said:


> *I should also mention at this point that I talk what I call 'NSE', which is basically SSE but with retention of /a/ instead of /ɑː/, so /baθ/ not /bɑːθ/ for _bath_.  Speakers of SSE say I "have an accent", that I'm "Northern".  To which I reply that _they_ have an accent, they're Southern
> To hear this accent you could search for 'BBC Climbing Great Buildings Trailer'.  In it the presenter Jonathan Foyle (who's from Lincolnshire) speaks 'SE' throughout, but 'slips up' on _answer_ /ansə/, _example_ /egzampəl/ (twice), and _after _/aftə/.


His "one" rhymes with "gone". This is also a Midland/Northern feature. The two don't rhyme in 'SE'.


london calling said:


> PS. Add Jeremy Irons to the list.


Yup. Just think of all the working-class parts he ruled himself out of.


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## ewie

sound shift said:


> His "one" rhymes with "gone". This is also a Midland/Northern feature. The two don't rhyme in 'SE'.


You're right, Mr S ~ I've been overlooking that for years


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## EdisonBhola

panjandrum said:


> So, what is received pronunciation?
> 
> The Oxford Companion to the English Language has two full pages discussing this topic.  I really don't have the stamina to summarise this, but I will offer some extracts/ quotes.
> 
> RP is the theoretically received pronunciation of literary English (1869).
> 
> RP is often referred to as the spoken embodiment of a variety, or varieties, of English known variously as the Queen's English, the King's English, BBC English, Oxford English and Public School English.
> 
> Alternatively, it is known as talking proper, or talking posh.
> 
> Many of us consider RP a mark not of education or proper English but an indicator of anachronistic social class and in particular of air-headed aspirations to imperialist social domination.
> 
> There is a presumption among students of EFL that RP is dominant and superior.  It is definitely not a majority pronunciation.  Views on whether it is dominant and superior depend on whether you are an RP pronouncer or not.
> 
> Personally I am not.
> 
> I poke fun at the RP announcers who tell me about Laura Norder when they should be talking about law and order.  They say "Goodbye from Oliver Seer," when they are bidding farewell from all of us here.
> 
> Enough, OK?


Are there any British celebrities who still speak with RP? Would Hugh Grant and Tom Hiddleston be good examples? Or do their accents actually deviate from RP? 

Many thanks!


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## Hermione Golightly

Those men speak with upper class accents. Benedict Cumberbatch  has a beautiful voice and similar accent. It really is not important. They are actors who tend to have 'special' voices anyway. The majority of British people speak with their own accents whatever they are. All that matters to us and all that should matter to students is that people understand them.


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## EdisonBhola

natkretep said:


> Would you accept that there are different kinds of RP, ewie? The British Library suggests that there is conservative, mainstream and contemporary RP:
> 
> Received Pronunciation


who would be some good candidates who speak with contemporary RP?


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## Hermione Golightly

who would be some good candidates who speak with contemporary RP?

Most of the BBC news readers, presenters for example. Contemporary RP has nothing to identify the social class, regional origin or education of the speaker. I would need to read why that might be different from mainstream. One thing they all have in common is that the speakers do not make mistakes in grammar, that is they do not depart from standard grammar to use dialect forms nor do they use regionalisms or dialect expressions and terms.


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## london calling

EdisonBhola said:


> Are there any British celebrities who still speak with RP?


If you read the previous posts we have named several.


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## Loob

EdisonBhola said:


> who would be some good candidates who speak with contemporary RP?


If - as I assume - you're asking "Who would be good BrE models to emulate?" then I agree with london calling.  If you're a man, you might like to look at post 26; if you're a woman, you might like to look at post 27.


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