# Gas prices



## VenusEnvy

Here, in the states, gas prices are rising to extradorinary highs. _Who here drives a car? Who's being affected by the rising gas prices?_

A few months ago, gas was $2.05 per gallon, now it's risen by a dollar to over $3.05 per gallon. I heard on the news that gas prices in Arkansas are as high as $3.25 per gallon. The news also showed coverage in some of the southern states. Lines for gasoline stations are hours long, and local officials are conserving what they have and pinching their pennies.

I'm going to look into public transportation shortly. I simply can't afford to continue to pay $30 a week, just for gas.

I have heard some say, "We in America should be thankful that our gas prices are so low. In Europe, people pay close to $5.00 per gallon." _Is this valid?_

What do you expect will happen, if anything?


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## modgirl

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I have heard some say, "We in America should be thankful that our gas prices are so low. In Europe, people pay close to $5.00 per gallon." _Is this valid?_


 
Oh yeah.  When I'm in Europe, I often have to hire ("rent" in US) a car.  When I fill up the tank, I'm usually quite shocked.  Even with the higher prices right now, I don't think that we're "even" with Europe....

Where I live, prices are still under $3.00.  However, tomorrow, I don't want to look!


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## panjandrum

Kyoto, kyoto, kyoto, kyoto, kyoto, kyoto...


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## Jana337

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I have heard some say, "We in America should be thankful that our gas prices are so low. In Europe, people pay close to $5.00 per gallon." _Is this valid?_


I wish it were.  The prices are around $7.00 per gallon (well, a bit less in some countries). $5.00 per gallon is what our greedy governments grab. Read here.

Jana


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## cuchuflete

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> What do you expect will happen, if anything?



We will learn to be less wasteful.

...prices for everything (*!*) will increase to reflect higher transport costs.

We will learn that resources are neither cheap nor limitless, and I hope we will begin to have an energy policy that isn't all about following Mr. Dick Cheney's advice to burn more hydrocarbons, but actually encourages alternate energy sources, especially wind, water, solar, and nuclear.

I've been looking at some great Danish technology for small wind-powered electricity generation.  I have lots of free wind here on the river.  It doesn't polute
Sorry Panj, I'm too tired for a brawl, but Kyoto allows polution trading, and to my simplistic sense of arithmetic, trading sources of filth from one nation to another is not quite the same as reducing it, or reducing energy demand.  The latter seems to respond to quaint notions like elasticity of demand, even more than to international treaties.


toodles,
Cuchu


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## modgirl

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The prices are around $7.00 per gallon (well, a bit less in some countries).


 
Even in the Czech Republic?!  I have a friend who lives in your country and is a hotel manager who earns makes about $1,000US a month.  And, he says his income is very good for where he lives.  He does not own a car.  But unless one is fabulously wealthy, how could _anyone_ afford to drive in the Czech Republic?

Cuchuflete, I would love to see several fewer SUVs in the US.  I just drive a little Japanese car that gets ~35 mph, and it costs me a fortune to fill up!  I can't imagine what it takes to fill the larger monsters.


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## cuchuflete

I'm driving less over the past few months.   I used to zip into town twice a day for any little thing...now I try to limit it to one trip every other day.  It's only about 10 miles round trip, but my mid-life crisis burns premium fuel.


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## modgirl

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> my mid-life crisis burns premium fuel.


 
Aha!  Bet you can't fit five big adults in it for a road trip.


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## cuchuflete

modgirl said:
			
		

> Aha!  Bet you can't fit five big adults in it for a road trip.



Right you are...four large and one medium in the back middle.  Have had four adults and three kids in it at once, but that was no fun for anyone but the driver, who likes to take corners while stepping on the wrong (read:accelerator) pedal.


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## modgirl

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Right you are...four large and one medium in the back middle. Have had four adults and three kids in it at once, but that was no fun for anyone but the driver, who likes to take corners while stepping on the wrong (read:accelerator) pedal.


 
Oh, I had the wrong impression.  I was envisioning a cute little Mazda Miata or something!


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## Jana337

modgirl said:
			
		

> Even in the Czech Republic?! I have a friend who lives in your country and is a hotel manager who earns makes about $1,000US a month. And, he says his income is very good for where he lives. He does not own a car.


No. The article quoted above states it as well:


> Germans who live close to the Czech Republic can drive across the border to take advantage of the lowest prices in Europe, but most people "cannot react to [the prices] because they still need to drive a lot," says Jürgen Albrecht, an official with Germany's largest auto club, the ADAC.


I computed it for you, using the American definition of gallon (3,785 l - the British one would be 4,546 l as I learned): It is around $4.70. Which is definitely a greater burden for a person having a Czech salary than $7.00 is for, say, a German with a German salary.


> But unless one is fabulously wealthy, how could _anyone_ afford to drive in the Czech Republic?


Very few families have more than one car. Driving distances are shorter. And we are generally much poorer, of course.

Jana

Edit: The Czech crown has been appreciating mightily against both € and $, which alleviates the price increase somewhat.


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## Kelly B

I think it is ironic that some Americans were griping about gas prices when they were paying more per gallon for designer water. I think it is high time for a dose of reality. Unfortunately it really hurts here because most of us have further to go than Europeans do, and the goods we buy have further to travel as well, but that is our own @#% fault. If the only way we can be persuaded to back off on our lavish use of resources is to pay through the nose for them, then so be it.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Kelly B*
> I think it is ironic that some Americans were griping about gas prices when they were paying more per gallon for designer water.


Not to mention designer "coffee" that has become a ubiquitous (thanks to some very clever marketing) part of our "American" lifestyle. 

I drive a small-mid SUV, my husband drives a small sedan. We are trying to "carpool" more and consolidate our errands so we are both not running around everywhere trying to get things done. 

We were also intending to carpool to school (we're both grad students), but our respective schedules did not allow for that. He's in class Mondays and Thursdays, I'm in class Tuesdays. It's kind of a trek (approx. 22 miles RT), but there's not much we can do about the situation. 

Unfortunately, we live in second-largest (in terms of land mass) city in the United States. It's mostly highway and turnpike driving and our public transportation system comprises only buses. We're a mostly suburban, and "Suburban" environment, and have no subway or "L" train system, electric rail, nor any other public transport that does not rely upon petroleum products. 

Until(?) prices go down, we'll just have to fight it out at the pump.


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## lsp

Kelly B said:
			
		

> I think it is ironic that some Americans were griping about gas prices when they were paying more per gallon for designer water. I think it is high time for a dose of reality. Unfortunately it really hurts here because most of us have further to go than Europeans do, and the goods we buy have further to travel as well, but that is our own @#% fault. If the only way we can be persuaded to back off on our lavish use of resources is to pay through the nose for them, then so be it.


I just drove home from New York City. I stopped for gas in the Bronx and paid over $3/gallon. Can I complain? I drive a small car that gets 26/31 (city/hwy) mpg and don't buy fancy water. I take public transportation and put about 5000 miles on my car each year. I turn out my lights and recycle. May I complain?


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## lsp

I was given to understand gas prices were higher in Europe because of taxes. Is that not so? The US has more and higher tax revenue opportunities and therefore the govt. doesn't take so much from the captive audience that is drivers-needing-a-tankful.


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## asm

I think the gas is still cheaper than it is in other countries, but I bet that inEurope they do not drive that much. I do not about those countries, but in Mexico we do not have "suburban" neighborhoods. I live in a small town, so I do not have to spend a lot (in my car, my wife spends A LOT ).

I received an email today saying that tomorrow, Sept-1, we shouldnt buy a drop of gasoline to help the prices go down. I do not know if those measures work . (I will not buy it anyway). (USA and Canada)






			
				VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Here, in the states, gas prices are rising to extradorinary highs. _Who here drives a car? Who's being affected by the rising gas prices?_
> 
> A few months ago, gas was $2.05 per gallon, now it's risen by a dollar to over $3.05 per gallon. I heard on the news that gas prices in Arkansas are as high as $3.25 per gallon. The news also showed coverage in some of the southern states. Lines for gasoline stations are hours long, and local officials are conserving what they have and pinching their pennies.
> 
> I'm going to look into public transportation shortly. I simply can't afford to continue to pay $30 a week, just for gas.
> 
> I have heard some say, "We in America should be thankful that our gas prices are so low. In Europe, people pay close to $5.00 per gallon." _Is this valid?_
> 
> What do you expect will happen, if anything?


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## lsp

asm said:
			
		

> I think the gas is still cheaper than it is in other countries, but I bet that inEurope they do not drive that much. ...


It was my experience that Europeans love their cars and driving as much as anyone else.


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## asm

There is more oil in the USA, and also the supply and demand law. Taxes are also important.



			
				lsp said:
			
		

> I was given to understand gas prices were higher in Europe because of taxes. Is that not so?


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## cuchuflete

modgirl said:
			
		

> Oh, I had the wrong impression.  I was envisioning a cute little Mazda Miata or something!



Terribly sorry modgirl...where cars, or most anything else is concerned, I don't do 'cute'.  Even my daylilies have standard transmissions 
Tried to fit into a Miata once, and it took about a week to stand up straight.
I get about 450 miles to a tank for highway driving, and that's on dry roads.

Guess I'll be driving less than I used to.


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## cuchuflete

asm said:
			
		

> There is more oil in the USA, and also the supply and demand law. Taxes are also important.



Most of the difference is in taxation.

The US produces only about 4% of the petroleum it consumes.

Re Supply and Demand...Rapidly increasing Chinese demand is driving up crude prices, while the hurricanes that knock out refinery capacity reduce supply still further.  

Still most of the differential in European and US gasoline pricing is tax based.

un saludo,
Cuchu


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## modgirl

lsp said:
			
		

> May I complain?


 
Yes! Although the US certainly has its fair share of people who waste and aren't careful with resources, there are still many who are not part of "ugly Americana." It isn't fair to lump us all into one big piece of apathetic clay.



			
				cuchuflete said:
			
		

> where cars, or most anything else is concerned, I don't do 'cute'. Even my daylilies have standard transmissions


 
Well now, I'm a girl who knows how to properly use a _stick_!


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## Sev

Here in France we're about $5.60 per gallon. I do agree whith Cuchu when he says : 





> We will learn that resources are neither cheap nor limitless, and I hope we will begin to have an energy policy that isn't all about following Mr. Dick Cheney's advice to burn more hydrocarbons, but actually encourages alternate energy sources, especially wind, water, solar, and nuclear.


...except for nuclear (which is our main resource in France), but that's another topic.

As some of you said, there are some concerns here about taxes which are quite high. I don't understand everything myself, so I'll be back when that'll be clearer in my head !

The french government was discussing a small measure aiming at reducing gas consumption and the cost of gas for consumers : they wanted to reduce speed limit on highways from 130 km/h to 115 km/h (the faster you drive the more you consume gas)
That was a small thing, not sufficient to do something efficient compared to climate problems, but this would have been a good idea though. IMHO. But people don’t want that measure, they need to go quickly, they’d die if they can’t drive over 115km/h*. And government is not ready to impose such measures, too afraid to be unpopular. 

*don’t understand that : I was myself "stopped" by policemen for not going fast enough on a highway ! "Excès de lenteur" !
Please correct any mistakes


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## Aupick

Poor Sev! I can't believe it! Actually I can because I have a car here in France and know what people's expectations are.  

I hadn't heard of the government's proposal to reduce the speed limit. A similar measure was taken by the American government in the 1970s in response to the fuel crisis, reducing speed limits on highways and interstates to 55mph (90kmh). It was repealed only a few years ago. It's one of those subtle, un-dramatic measures that don't win elections (and probably lose them, as Carter did), but which actually make a real difference. (Plus it saves lives.) Apart from that, price is the only thing that seems to dissuade people from driving, just as putting up cigarette prices is the most effective way of persuading people to give up smoking. Still, I guess people need viable alternatives, and these aren't always available.


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## Merlin

Here in the Philippines, gas prices are sky rocketing ever since our lawmakers approved the oil deregulation law!  Right now 1/L is aproaximately 50 cents (US dollar) (30/L pesos). We didn't have problems not before the oil deregulation law was approved. Oil prices are contolled and there's enough gasoline for everyone. Right now, oil companies are contesting in raising oil prices. There defense was that the price per barrel in the world market had increased. Almost every week/month, we have an oil price hike. Even small time gas companies are now joining the bandwagon. Before you can always afford to stroll around and have fun with some friends. Today, we only use our cars to and from work. We can't afford to go anywhere else unless we have some extra credits/cash in our pockets. In connection to oil price hike, public transportaion is greatly affected. Fare had enormously increased from P4.00 to P7.50 (Pesos). Oil price hike is really alarming nowadays. Students are greatly affected. Parents are having a hard time trying to get some extra cash so that thier children will have enough money for school and fare. I just hope that they will do something about the oil deregulation law!


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## tey2

Merlin said:
			
		

> Here in the Philippines, gas prices are sky rocketing ever since our lawmakers approved the oil deregulation law!  Right now 1/L is aproaximately 50 cents (US dollar) (30/L pesos). We didn't have problems not before the oil deregulation law was approved. Oil prices are contolled and there's enough gasoline for everyone. Right now, oil companies are contesting in raising oil prices. There defense was that the price per barrel in the world market had increased. Almost every week/month, we have an oil price hike. Even small time gas companies are now joining the bandwagon. Before you can always afford to stroll around and have fun with some friends. Today, we only use our cars to and from work. We can't afford to go anywhere else unless we have some extra credits/cash in our pockets. In connection to oil price hike, public transportaion is greatly affected. Fare had enormously increased from P4.00 to P7.50 (Pesos). Oil price hike is really alarming nowadays. Students are greatly affected. Parents are having a hard time trying to get some extra cash so that thier children will have enough money for school and fare. I just hope that they will do something about the oil deregulation law!
> 
> Hi merlin,
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly, though I didn't know about the deregulation law I'm not fond of watching the news (very discouraging and depressing though not all) Thanks for the info


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## Kelly B

lsp said:
			
		

> I just drove home from New York City. I stopped for gas in the Bronx and paid over $3/gallon. Can I complain? I drive a small car that gets 26/31 (city/hwy) mpg and don't buy fancy water. I take public transportation and put about 5000 miles on my car each year. I turn out my lights and recycle. May I complain?


Sorry. You're clearly not to be lumped in with the _some Americans _to whom I was referring. And I'm far from delighted at the prospect of spending $150 for gas to visit my parents, myself. I just think that our society as a whole will continue to make an awful lot of very unwise choices (despite the voices and efforts of the many who do care) unless and until it really begins to hurt.


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## Merlin

tey2 said:
			
		

> Hi merlin, My thoughts exactly, though I didn't know about the deregulation law I'm not fond of watching the news (very discouraging and depressing though not all) Thanks for the info


You're welcome tey2! I wish that our lawmakers will start doing something about it. The oil price hike is as hot as the impeachment issue in our country today. If they (senate and the house of representatives) stop bickering with each other and start some serious business against oil prices and other problems in our country, then success is not very far from our grasps. They're not doing things for the country but for themselves. For thier own interests! Most Filipinos are tired about their shows! They're always throwing issues at each other. The opposition and the administration. Why don't they just stop fighting and start doing thier jobs. I know that they can take care of the oil price hike as well as other problems in the country.


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## VenusEnvy

Just another fun fact: In my area, gas prices jumped $.50 per gallon in one week....

I just can't keep up!


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## Benjy

get a bike 
but seriously, i am 23 in a few months and i cant drive yet because i dont have enough money to learn how to drive. ex: my younger sister has spent about 1200 quid so far (we'll call that 1800 dollars although i suspect it's a little more) and she hasnt got her licence yet. and then you have your stupid petrol to pay for too at 7 odd dollars for the gallon. thank goodness my dads car does about 50 to the gallon otherwise we would all be walking


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## VenusEnvy

Benjy said:
			
		

> get a bike
> but seriously, i am 23 in a few months and i cant drive yet because i dont have enough money to learn how to drive. ex: my younger sister has spent about 1200 quid so far (we'll call that 1800 dollars although i suspect it's a little more) and she hasnt got her licence yet. and then you have your stupid petrol to pay for too at 7 odd dollars for the gallon. thank goodness my dads car does about 50 to the gallon otherwise we would all be walking


I know, Benj. And, pretty soon I'll be looking at the State's Public Transportation website to get fare and bus line info. But, the only problem for me is that firstly, this has happened so suddenly, and secondly, I'm used to driving my car eveywhere I go. This is what I've done my whole life (ok, not whole life, but you get the picture). My University is about an hour away, my work about 45 minutes. I don't want to sound like a complainer, but I don't want to pay $4.00 for a gallon of gas!


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## 'alexcia'

Merlin said:
			
		

> You're welcome tey2! I wish that our lawmakers will start doing something about it. The oil price hike is as hot as the impeachment issue in our country today. If they (senate and the house of representatives) stop bickering with each other and start some serious business against oil prices and other problems in our country, then success is not very far from our grasps. They're not doing things for the country but for themselves. For thier own interests! Most Filipinos are tired about their shows! They're always throwing issues at each other. The opposition and the administration. Why don't they just stop fighting and start doing thier jobs. I know that they can take care of the oil price hike as well as other problems in the country.


 
Exactly what I was thinking Merlin. That's why same with Tey2, I do not want to watch the news anymore. It's a show where most of the leaders are discussing and fighting over personal stuff instead of looking at the issue and solve it. Oh my, what will happen to us?


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## BasedowLives

higher gas prices are kind of a good thing.

maybe we can try to cut down on our energy usage.  fun fact!  if the rest of the world used energy like we do, it'd be depleted in 10 years.

and yes, europe's gas prices are very high.


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## VenusEnvy

BasedowLives said:
			
		

> higher gas prices are kind of a good thing.
> 
> maybe we can try to cut down on our energy usage.


Or, maybe we'll be seeing more and more automobiles that use a different kind of energy. Electric cars? I know they have their disadvantages, but perhaps they'll catch on. ?


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## Benjy

if only they would start selling it...

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/750hl.htm


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## gatocloneado

Has anyone heard of magnetic powered motors? I heard an engineer in Tampa came up with a engine/motor? that moves solely with magnets. Before anyone argues about perpetual motion, magnets decay also. Just wondering if anyone else heard this, or if I am hearing voices.....


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Basedowlives*
> if the rest of the world used energy like we do, it'd be depleted in 10 years.



Actually, Basedow, while we are certainly a "culprit" and a great one at that, by far, the greatest consumer of petroleum products is China, a country whose environmental laws are far less restrictive than our own. 

The problem is, this crisis will only get worse before it gets better.  Even people who do not rely so heavily upon individual transportation will feel the pinch in the winter when other "gas-related" and petroleum products are also affected by this. 

My state is trying to impose a 5-cent gas tax to collect funds for a $380 million, much-needed highway improvement package.  I cannot imagine that a population already facing $3.00 a gallon will vote to make that per gallon price 5 cents higher.


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## Merlin

gatocloneado said:
			
		

> Has anyone heard of magnetic powered motors? I heard an engineer in Tampa came up with a engine/motor? that moves solely with magnets. Before anyone argues about perpetual motion, magnets decay also. Just wondering if anyone else heard this, or if I am hearing voices.....


Good question though this thing that I will share is a lot different. Here in the Philippines we have a scientist/inventor who invented a water powered motor! That's right guys H2O powered motor. However, our government doesn't pay much attention to this inventions. So up until now we're still cramming on as much fuel our country can afford. One of the problems in my country is lack of support to inventors. Thier ideas just get spoiled and rotten. He even invented a fire torch from water. If you put the torch in your hand, you can hardly feel the heat because the're water coming out together with fire. Imagine a motor powered by water. As long as there's water, the motor will run. Isn't that a big convenience? It was featured a couple of times in TV shows. Well all I can say is that our government should start doing something. They should start pulling something out of thier @$$*$$!!!



			
				alexcia said:
			
		

> Exactly what I was thinking Merlin. That's why same with Tey2, I do not want to watch the news anymore. It's a show where most of the leaders are discussing and fighting over personal stuff instead of looking at the issue and solve it. Oh my, what will happen to us?


(The Philippine Government has) Been doing that forever!


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## 'alexcia'

Merlin said:
			
		

> Good question though this thing that I will share is a lot different. Here in the Philippines we have a scientist/inventor who invented a water powered motor! That's right guys H2O powered motor. However, our government doesn't pay much attention to this inventions. So up until now we're still cramming on as much fuel our country can afford. One of the problems in my country is lack of support to inventors. Thier ideas just get spoiled and rotten. He even invented a fire torch from water. If you put the torch in your hand, you can hardly feel the heat because the're water coming out together with fire. Imagine a motor powered by water. As long as there's water, the motor will run. Isn't that a big convenience? It was featured a couple of times in TV shows. Well all I can say is that our government should start doing something. They should start pulling something out of thier @$$*$$!!!


 
Though I'm not fond of watching the news, I heard about that invention. If I'm not mistaken, 1 or 2 years ago it was featured on TV many times and just a couple of weeks ago I heard about it again. I think Japan (was it Japan? could be China, not sure anymore) has already look at it and they are interested to buy it. If we think about it, it will be a great saving having to use water on cars. Can't wait to try it myself.  And imagine, less pollution..



> (The Philippine Government has) Been doing that forever!


I agree more than 100% !


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## Merlin

alexcia said:
			
		

> Though I'm not fond of watching the news, I heard about that invention. If I'm not mistaken, 1 or 2 years ago it was featured on TV many times and just a couple of weeks ago I heard about it again. I think Japan (was it Japan? could be China, not sure anymore) has already look at it and they are interested to buy it. If we think about it, it will be a great saving having to use water on cars. Can't wait to try it myself.  And imagine, less pollution.


Well we're still lucky because I believe he doesn't want to sell his invention. The government should haul @$$ on this issue. You're correct. Less pollution means cleaner air.


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## MrMagoo

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Here, in the states, gas prices are rising to extradorinary highs. _Who here drives a car? Who's being affected by the rising gas prices?_
> 
> A few months ago, gas was $2.05 per gallon, now it's risen by a dollar to over $3.05 per gallon. I heard on the news that gas prices in Arkansas are as high as $3.25 per gallon. The news also showed coverage in some of the southern states. Lines for gasoline stations are hours long, and local officials are conserving what they have and pinching their pennies.
> 
> I'm going to look into public transportation shortly. I simply can't afford to continue to pay $30 a week, just for gas.
> 
> I have heard some say, "We in America should be thankful that our gas prices are so low. In Europe, people pay close to $5.00 per gallon." _Is this valid?_
> 
> What do you expect will happen, if anything?


 
3.05$ per gallon?! *wow* That'd be a miracle price in Germany.

We pay about 1,45€ now for one _litre_ of gas (1 gallone is about 3,7 litres).

Newer German cars need about 5 - 9 liters of gas though per 100 km, I think this is not as much as American cars need; what is the gas consumption per 100 km on an average in the USA?


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## BasedowLives

wow, that's nearly 6.73 per gallon.

and we measure gas consumption in miles per gallon..  i think the average is probably in the 20s


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## Noel Acevedo

The whole issue of gas prices causes people to enter into cardiac arrest (repeatedly), but still no one has comeup with a decent explanation.  First of all the resource oil is limited, and those sources of easy and ready access have been exploited to the max.  The worlds largest producer and alleged holder of the greatest reserves, Saudi Arabia, has reached its maximun production capacity. Some analists believe their production has flatlined, as they are recurring to pumping salt water into their deepest oil fields  so as to extract as much as possible. The US invaded Iraq for the sole purpose of controlling the worlds second largest reserves; and we all know how well that little exercise is turning out. Venezuela, threatened by the US, is not a readily accessible source, Nigeria is in a virtual state of civil war, Iran,well we know where they stand.  And though the Russians hold the seventh world reserves and are like the second producer, they are selling for profit.  We should also remember that in the Old days, Europe and the US were the principle buyers, now China and India with a rapidly growing economy are buying like crazy at whatever price the market offers. Now, with hurricane Katrina, humane issues aside, the impact on US oil production is serious, with easily a drop of 20 or more percent in their internal source of consumption.  So the sources left worldwide are the hardest to explore and cap and the most expensive to operate.  Gas will go up.

On whether there are other energy sources available, I always ask myself a rhetorical question: The US is capable of sending land rovers to Mars, and to pinpoint bomb the hell out of anyone, are you going to tell me they can't come up with a cheap, vialbe non-polluting energy source?  My answer always comes back the same: The Oil industry and the automative industry...

Noel Acevedo


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