# Seize Change



## QCain

I was wondering if anyone knew the best way to translate "Seize change" from Englsih to Latin. I've found different answers, but my foundation of Latin terminology is not extensive and I want to make sure the phrase is correctly translated. Although the phrase is fairly straight forward, I will emphasize that the phrase needs to have the meaning of embrasing, seizing, grabing hold of, and accepting change. I know latin words can represent more than one english word, but make sure that the most direct translation is "seize change". Thank you in advance!


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## Scholiast

Tricky one, this.

"Seize the time/moment" is easy - Horace's _carpe diem_.

But in the poster's required sense, "embrace change" [rather than be a die-hard old fogey], one would need something like

_res novas capesse_.

quid putant alii?


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## jrundin

Like so many snappy slogans, "seize change" is very much dependent on the Language
in which is said, that is, English. In English, it makes sense to "seize" an abstract
concept and have that mean "accept it." However, there is no guarantee that other
languages can do this. You may get lucky; you may not.

In this case, I think the idea can't be translated literally. It needs to be recast. You have
to completely change it to catch the thought. I would go with something like 
"oportet libenter mutari" = It's best to change gladly" = "you should be glad to change."


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## eb110262

I'm not sure how "carpe diem" can be seen other than seizing an abstract concept -- you can't actually grasp and hold a day!

I like the idea of _res novas_ - often used for revolutions or upheavals. So "_carpe res novas_"?

You could even slim it down to "_carpe novum_" - "seize the new".


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## jrundin

Good point, eb110262.  

"Carpe diem," though, is a quote from one of Latin's most famous 
poems, Horace _Carm_. 1.9. 

Let's start with a given: "carpe" does not mean "sieze." It means "pluck" 
as in "pluck a flower" or "pluck a piece of fruit" to enjoy it. 

Horace was stretching the language metaphorically in this phrase. It occurs in one
of the most famous poems in the Latin language (and the poem is rightly famous; it's 
beautiful), and Horace leads up to the bold metaphor of "plucking
the day" like a flower or a piece of fruit through ten or eleven lines. 
It is not clear to me that, without this cultural knowledge and context,
"carpe diem" would make much sense to a native speaker of Latin. 
It's a bold metaphor. 

As they say, "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi." 

I guess it could be argued, "Well, that genie is out of the bottle, and
even t-shirts come with 'carpe diem' emblazoned on them, so everyone
will recognize this special use of 'carpe.'" That point is well-taken. And
it may even work for Latin, since the Horace poem was well-known. 

Nevertheless, the problem may not so much with the "carpe," 
but with the abstract noun that comes after it. What will you use? "mutatio, mutationis, f."? 

(Note: Latin does not use abstract nouns as much as English; the tendency is
to use constructions with verbs instead. English: "Our conquest of Carthage led to the
death of many people"; Latin: "When we conquered Carthage, many people died" =
"cum Carthaginem vicissemus, multi perierunt.")

"carpe mutationem" = "pluck a mutation"? That's creepy. 

"carpe novum" = "pluck a new one"? "pluck a new thing?" (Actually, the semantic range of "carpe" also
goes to "pick at" this could mean "pick at a new one"). It think a Latin speaker would
react with the question "pluck a new what?" 

"carpe res novas" = "pluck new affairs"? "fiddle with the new account books"? 

I dunno. I think that using "carpe diem" as a model is not a good choice. In my
opinion, it's not how you're going to get a Latin expression that intelligibly communicates
the sentiment in the English "Seize change." Short, snappy expressions like this rarely
translate directly. But that's just my opinion. 

As in most matters, I'm probably wrong.


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## Mezzofanti

Doesn't Scholiast's suggestion _res novas capesse_ solve the problem ? I vote for it.


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## jrundin

Well, Mezzofanti, I think you ask a question that can't be answered. "capesse res novas" may get it,
but, really, there are no native speakers of Latin around to ask, so we can't be sure. 

If you want to use "capesse res novas," I certainly can't prove it's wrong. And I think
Scholiast has probably come about as close as one can come to a literal translation
of "seize change" while preserving the the sentiment (Bravo, Scholiast!) 

Myself, I think it sounds a bit off, but I can't prove it. My discomfort is with "res novas."
What does that mean? "res" is a really complex word. And "novus" is not much less complex.
"new" in English has positive connotations; "novus" in Latin often did not. The Romans, on some
level, did not like new things. 

The expression "res novas" most commonly means "revolution" or "seditious
activity." eb110262 has already pointed this out (See Oxford Latin Dictionary definition 10 of "novus" and definition 14 of "res," which treats the plural of the word "res"; even smaller dictionaries I have consulted define "res novae" as "revolution" or the
like). The problem is how you feel about "revolution." In the modern advertising and public relations world,
"revolution" is good. Everyone wants to use a "revolutionary" toothpaste. It is not at all clear to me
that such attitudes, which are a product of our own hyperbolic era, translate well. "Revolutions" are not traditionally
considered good things. One of the most famous revolutions of all is probably Lucifer's revolution against God.
We all know how that turned out and what sort of guy Lucifer is. The sword-wielding Archangel
Michael got all the good press on that one. 

I think that "capesse res novas" might well be interpreted as "engage in sedition." In fact, that's
how I myself would read it without any further context. In short, the connotation of "capesse
novas res"  may not so much like Apple's harmless "Think different," but something 
more like "Guillotine the oligarchs!"  But I'm not a native speaker, so I'm not sure. 
The only possible way to begin to resolve this would be to find an actual attestation of the 
use of "capesso" with "res novas" as an object (which is quite feasible to do nowadays with
current ways of scanning the corpus of Latin literature, but I'm not interested enough
to do it). And even then, the question would most likely not be resolved.

The issue is that short snappy slogans in ANY language tend to rely on the semantic
and syntactic issues specific to that language. So they tend not to translate easily to languages
that are distant in time or place. Now English and Spanish and French and German have
enough commonality that, sometimes, such phrases can be translated pretty literally from
English to these other languages. But even then, it's often impossible to 
translate slogans. And the further you get away from English, the
less likely these phrases will translate. And if the sentiments do translate, they often have to 
be expressed completely differently.


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## Mezzofanti

Jrundin, come to think of it I have to concede that the idea of political revolution may be too strong in "capesse res novas". What about "nova ne respueris" ?


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## jrundin

I like that!

I think that there may a fundamental problem here. In our hypertrophied 
capitalist world, we are always being told that new things and change are good 
in an attempt to whip us into a flurry of consumption and production. 

That whole social background is missing in antiquity; in fact, I'm not sure
when it first arose in the Western World--rise of colonialism? capitalism? 
The ancients didn't like new things. They tended to think they were worse 
than what we have now, not better. 

To quote Horace:
aetas parentum peior avis tulit
     nos nequiores, mox daturos
     progeniem vitiosiorem.


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## Mezzofanti

Jrundin, I don't _agree _with the sentiment this thread is about either : I was just exploring ways of translating it !


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## jrundin

Mezzofanti, I hope you didn't take offense at the "I like that." It was not referring 
to your post that now stands before it but to a post that was deleted , in which someone had
posted an amusing translations.. 

In any case, as I think about this, I think that the notion of "Fortuna" is relevant
here--the illusory cycles of up and down. I think that perhaps something like 
"take advantage of changes in fortune" might somewhat render the idea.


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