# High schools



## IlPetaloCremisi

In Italy high school lasts more than in any other country...Kids go to school until they are 18, while in America as well as in many other european countries  students start college one year before. What about countries outside Europe? Do you think it is good to do 5 years of high shcool in order to get a more general culture or it would be better to finish  studying before  and to start working and get a specific preparation?


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## Lugubert

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> In Italy high school lasts more than in any other country...Kids go to school until they are 18


In Sweden, we begin at 7, and finish after 12 years of study. Systems have changed, but in 1962, I graduated at the normal age of 19. Currently, it's like 9 years of basic school 'grundskola' and then 3 years of high school 'gymnasium'. I had 4+4+4 years, where the first transition was a culture shock to many a pupil.

Numbers aren't holy, results matter. One of our current problems is that after soooo many years of socialist rule ("social skills", stressing team work and whatever, a plethora of inane electives like football, skiing, pet care), kids going for universities of technology often have to take remedial classes in maths. Most any high school graduate from the fifties would outshine a second semester university student of English these days. And yet, Swedish students still rank very favourably in most all subjects on international comparisons.


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## cuchuflete

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> In Italy high school lasts more than in any other country...Kids go to school until they are 18, while in America as well as in many other european countries  students start college one year before. What about countries outside Europe? Do you think it is good to do 5 years of high shcool in order to get a more general culture or it would be better to finish  studying before  and to start working and get a specific preparation?



In the US, there are 13 years of public schooling: Kindergarten plus grades one through twelve.
Many students graduate at age 18.  Some may graduate when they are 17.  How many years of
education do Italian students, in general, have before beginning university?


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## tvdxer

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> In Italy high school lasts more than in any other country...Kids go to school until they are 18, while in America as well as in many other european countries  students start college one year before. What about countries outside Europe? Do you think it is good to do 5 years of high shcool in order to get a more general culture or it would be better to finish  studying before  and to start working and get a specific preparation?



I don't think the fact that Italian students do 5 years of high school really makes any difference in comparison with the U.S.  It's just how they divide the grades up.  For example, in the United States students also usually go to high school until graduation at 18*, but students five years younger, in 7th grade, would be in middle school (in most school districts).  Our "12th grade" is at 18.

One nice thing about this country is that the government does not standardize what grades are considered high school, middle school, etc...it leaves that up to the schools to decide.  However, there seems to be a general consensus that newer "high school" buildings will house freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors - that is, students in the 9th through 12th grades, or between the ages of 14 and 18.  Older schools might exclude 9th graders (age 14-15), but this is becoming rarer and rarer.

I personally think 18 is a good year to complete secondary education, but perhaps that's just because it's what I'm accustomed to.  However, students who don't fit well into the whole academic routine might be better off leaving at 16 or 17 to pursue a trade.

* Some students begin a year early or have an early birthday and graduate at 17 (or in very rare cases, even younger).  Others might have missed a grade or dropped out for some time and graduate at 19.


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## JamesM

tvdxer said:


> I personally think 18 is a good year to complete secondary education, but perhaps that's just because it's what I'm accustomed to. However, students who don't fit well into the whole academic routine might be better off leaving at 16 or 17 to pursue a trade.


 
My son is very bright, but falls into that group "who don't fit well into the whole academic routine." He left high school at 16 and began working to save for a car and trade school. He ran into some problems I didn't foresee, simply because there are many jobs he is not allowed to do by law, being a minor. 

One store couldn't hire him because some heavy machinery was used in a particular part of the store and the law does not allow a minor to work within 100 feet of such a machine. Everything in the store is within 100 feet of the machine.  He can't be a stocker at a local grocery store because minors are not allowed to work with boxcutters, those razor blade devices that open up boxes.  He can't work on a loading dock because of the forklifts.  And on and on...

He'd like to buy a car, but he won't be able to hold title to it; we'll have to do that for him until he turns 18.

All this is to say that one of the best reasons for school to extend up to 18 is simply the large body of law that supports the idea of majority at 18 in the U.S. It's a much simpler transition into the marketplace at 18 than at 16. I now speak from the experience of my son.


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## Etcetera

In Russia, kids go to school at the age of 7 (some parents send their kids to school when they're 6, but I' don't think it's so good for the child). 
When I was attending school, we spent 3 years in primary school and 5 (7) years in secondary school. Nowadays, primary school takes 4 years. So, I left school when I was 17, and my sister will leave it at 18. 
No let me explain why I wrote that secondary school takes 5 (7) years. It's possible to leave school after 9 years and go to a college or straight to work. But in my class, only one girl decided to go to college, and the other 25 pupils stayed for another two years. Completing these two additional years gives you the right to apply to universities and institutes. 

As for the importance of getting as much school education as possible, I believe every person must decide for themselves. I wanted to go to university, so I stayed. My classmate wanted to work, so she went to college. Suum cuique.


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## Kajjo

In Germany we have 13 years of school education, we usually graduate high school with 19.

Kajjo


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## Brioche

In Australia we have 13 years of schooling.
The first year has different names in different states. It can be called Prep [short for Preparatory], Transition, Reception or other names.

The following year is called Year One, and so on to Year Twelve.
In some states, High school is Years 7 to 12; in others, Years 8 to 12.

Most children start Prep at age 5, so most turn 18 in Year 12.
Young people are obliged to stay at school until they are 16.

They are encouraged to stay to Year 12. This keeps teachers in a job, and keeps the kids out of the labour market. That helps to make unemployment figures look better.

If the kids learn something in those last two years, that's a bonus.


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## Henryk

Kajjo said:


> In Germany we have 13 years of school education, we usually graduate high school with 19.
> 
> Kajjo


I beg to differ. According to Wikipedia, only 23% of the school leavers in 2005 graduated with Abitur. The average age of leaving should be pretty lower then since most start an apprenticeship or a training after leaving school at the age of 16.


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## roxane

In Switzerland we also have 5 years high school, we graduate at the age of 19.


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## Kajjo

Henryk said:


> I beg to differ. According to Wikipedia, only 23% of the school leavers in 2005 graduated with Abitur. The average age of leaving should be pretty lower then since most start an apprenticeship or a training after leaving school at the age of 16.


I took the question as targeted specifically towards high school education. Again, German pupils leave high school with age 19 after 13 years of school. Of course, the less performing pupils will leaver after 10 years (with 16) or 9 years (with 15).

Kajjo


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## Pedro y La Torre

In Ireland you normally start school at 4/5 and end at 18.


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## Sorcha

Yes, we like to get a solid 14 years of first and second level education in before going out into the real world, or just going to college (which we all know to be fictional). It seems strange that kids in Russia go at seven and most people I know started at four!


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## Brioche

Kajjo said:


> I took the question as targeted specifically towards high school education. Again, German pupils leave high school with age 19 after 13 years of school. Of course, the less performing pupils will leaver after 10 years (with 16) or 9 years (with 15).
> 
> Kajjo


 
Mit besserwisserlichem Gruß:

*at* age 19, *at* 16 &c.


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## sdr083

In Norway children start school the year they turn 6 (there was a reform a few years ago, I started at 7) and do 7 years of primary school (6 - 13) and 3 years of secondary school (14-16).  When you finish secondary school you choose a "line".  All the schools this level are officially the same kind of school ("vidaregåande" - call it high school if you want), but some are "general culture" and some are "specific preparation".
I chose an academic line which means you do 3 years of general subjects (you get to choose some of them) and then go on to the university or an other school of higher education the year you turn 19 (though a lot of people do something else for a year, for example spend some time abroad, before they start studying).  My youngest brother is going to be an electrician and chose a different line.  He does two years of specific schooling and then works as an apprentice for two years.  The year he turns twenty he will do the final test and hopefully get a diploma.
So, basically, the years and character of "high school" depend on the line you choose when you finish secondary school.


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## francophone

Age doesn't really matter, I was 16 when I graduated from high school and now i'm still a university student, I had a 2 years delay, I travelled abroad and was buzy with other aspects of life, and my class have already graduated, but here I am and I don't really feel older or anything like that. I'm only 22 and I have one more year left.


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## Etcetera

francophone said:


> Age doesn't really matter, I was 16 when I graduated from high school and now i'm still a university student, I had a 2 years delay, I travelled abroad and was buzy with other aspects of life, and my class have already graduated, but here I am and I don't really feel older or anything like that. I'm only 22 and I have one more year left.


I'm currently in year 4 at University. Most my fellow students are of my age, but some are 1-2 years older. Some of them only could pass the entrance exams only on their second or even third attempt, some had studied in other universitites or colleges... and some simply wanted to take a one year "vacation".


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## Brioche

Etcetera said:


> . and some simply wanted to take a one year "vacation".



In Britain, around 30,000 annually defer university for 12 months. It's known as a "gap year". Some of them come to Australia as backpackers.

Prince William took a gap year.


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## maxiogee

Many schools in Ireland offer their students a sort of gap year. 

There is a state examination (Junior Certificate) which is taken at around 15. 

The next state examination (Leaving certificate) has what is a two year syllabus, but many pupils do not start that syllabus until the year after they sit their Junior Certificate. 

The intervening year is known as a transition year and many non-academic or non-syllabus subjects are investigates (not quite the same as 'studied'). 

There is also generally some element of 'work experience' involved where each student does about a month of intern work in local businesses. That year over, they tackle the Leaving Certificate - the marks that they get in that being used to determine which third-level College/University courses they qualify for.

Education in Ireland is geenrally eight years of Primary School followed by six years of Secondary School - this takes most pupils from 4 to 18. Education is compulsory between the ages of 6 and 16.


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## mirx

México.

Kindergarten: kids start when they are 3 years old and finish when they are six, is public and the last year is mandatory (when they are five years old)

Primary school: Starts when the kid has turned 6 for 6 years, that is the kid will finish when he's turned twelve

Secondary school: Starts right after the 6 years of primary school, a regular kid will finish at age 15.

Preparatory School: Begins after secodary and lasts three years, a student will be ready for university at age 18.

All this exists in private and public modalities, is mainly funded by the government and mandatory until secondary. Preparatory is optional but few jobs will hire non-preparatory graduates.


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## Poetic Device

America's school system is very odd.We don't have a set age for each class exactly; we have the generally expected age.  There are some students who either excel or fall short of the expectations of the grade their age designates them to be in and when that is done they are addressed accordingly.  Case in point, I graduated high school when I was sixteen and one person I knew stayed back so many times he was 20 when he graduated.

Schools here are also starting programs with colleges where if a student is doing exceedingly well in a course they have the option to go to the local/community college and try their course for that topic or subject.  If the student is able to keep their head above water and pass the class, they get the college credits no matter what.


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## mirx

Poetic Device said:


> America's school system is very odd.We don't have a set age for each class exactly; we have the generally expected age. There are some students who either excel or fall short of the expectations of the grade their age designates them to be in and when that is done they are addressed accordingly. Case in point, I graduated high school when I was sixteen and one person I knew stayed back so many times he was 20 when he graduated.
> 
> Schools here are also starting programs with colleges where if a student is doing exceedingly well in a course they have the option to go to the local/community college and try their course for that topic or subject. If the student is able to keep their head above water and pass the class, they get the college credits no matter what.


 
just a doubt, are bad students failed or do they always pass to the next level?


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## Blehh.

Okay, let me clarify something to all the non-US people here.
In the US, the federal government does not run the schools. The school system is decided by the *individual states*, meaning that each state has a different system. (e.g. Texas has a completely different system than California) The states are divided into individual school districts who carry out the system's tasks.

In Texas, classes are based on a credits system, meaning that you can take any state-mandated credit course at any time, show that you know the material, and get high school credit for it. You don't necessarily fail the entire _grade_, per se. If you fail an individual class, you have to either repeat that class during the next school year or retake it in the summer.

example: Johnny is taking First Year Spanish, and at the end of the year, he gets a failing grade for that class. However, he is passing Algebra. Johnny will have to repeat First Year Spanish, but he can still go on to Geometry, the next level of math, because he showed that he knew the material in Algebra.


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## mirx

> example: Johnny is taking First Year Spanish, and at the end of the year, he gets a failing grade for that class. However, he is passing Algebra. Johnny will have to repeat First Year Spanish, but he can still go on to Geometry, the next level of math, because he showed that he knew the material in Algebra.


[/quote]

it´s the same in some schools in México (each school has its own administration). A student will usually have 3 opportunities to take an exam to aprove a given subject, it he fails the exam three times then he will have to take that subject again during a year -along with the other subjects- If he fails again he'll have to repeat the whole year again with all the other subjects including the ones he approved the first year, My shcool refuses to take such students so after they´ve failed twice the same subject they´ll have to look for another school.

First year= three exams
Second year (if failed the three exams)= Repeat subject of fisrt year and keep regular with the ones of second year
Third year (if failed repeating the subject)= Go back to first year and start all over again. In my school in this stage students are not accepted again and have to look for another school.


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## Vanest

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> In Italy high school lasts more than in any other country...Kids go to school until they are 18, while in America as well as in many other european countries  students start college one year before. What about countries outside Europe? Do you think it is good to do 5 years of high shcool in order to get a more general culture or it would be better to finish  studying before  and to start working and get a specific preparation?



To answer your questions for Ecuador: Primary starts at age five and is called 'primero de básica'. This same grade used to be called kinder, but there was a reform ten years ago that changed a few things in our education system. 'Educación básica' or basic education lasts for ten years, so a child finishes at the age of fifteen. After that, there is a 'ciclo diversificado' that lasts three years. I guess that could be considered high school. People graduate from this when they are 18. There are two types of high schools: the ones that teach you a trade (secretary, teacher, electrician, seamstress, artisan, etc.) and the ones that prepare you for a technical college or a university. In the non-technical high schools, there are three specializations one can choose from: 'físico-matématicos' (physics and mathematics) 'ciencias sociales' (social sciences) y 'químico-biólogos' (chemistry and biology). It is now alos possible to pick 'único integral' that is a more generalized program.
Personally, I think that a person benefits from more years of education and so does society in general. That is not to say that it is necessary for that to be an 'academic' eduaction. But I do think that a person who at least finishes high school is better prepared to face the many challenges that this ever more competetive and fast paced world presents.


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