# never in a month of Sundays



## Tellure

Salve a tutti! 

Mi sono imbattuta in questa espressione e volevo che qualcuno mi confermasse che si può rendere con "mai e poi mai", che è l'unica traduzione che ho trovato online. Per esempio, nel testo seguente:


> Constitutional expert Alan Trench said that “never in a month of  Sundays” would anyone have expected at the birth of Welsh devolution  that Wales would end up with a different education system to England.


walesonline.co.uk
"mai come mai" potrebbe andare?


> he'll never do it in a month of Sundays  non ci riuscirà mai e poi mai


dizionario.reverso.net

Questa è invece la definizione del freedictionary di "month of Sundays":


> *month of Sundays* _Informal_  An indefinitely long period of time: _It will take you a month of Sundays to chop all that wood_.


thefreedictionary.com

Per "month of Sundays" non ho trovato nulla ma presumo si possa tradurre con qualcosa tipo "una vita", "un secolo" ecc. Giusto?

Qualcuno sa per caso l'origine di questo modo di dire?

Grazie, 

Tellure


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## Gianfry

Il senso dovrebbe essere "nemmeno in un mese fatto tutto di domeniche", ovvero nemmeno con una gran quantità di tempo a tua disposizione.


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## joanvillafane

Hi Tellure - I found a reference showing its use as early as 1832.  It just means a very, very, very long time.


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## Tellure

joanvillafane said:


> Hi Tellure - I found a reference showing its use as early as 1832.  It just means a very, very, very long time.



Ciao. 

 Però! Non credevo fosse così datata! Grazie per la conferma. 

@Gianfry: Già, potrebbe essere quello il significato. Grazie.


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## You little ripper!

It would take about seven and a half months to get 30 consecutive Sundays, a long time in some people's book. I suppose it depends on what we're talking about - seven and a half months to become a multimillionaire is not a long time, but to clean the bathroom might  be a different story.


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## Tellure

You little ripper! said:


> It would take about seven and a half months to get 30 consecutive Sundays, a long time in some people's book. I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Seven and a half months to become a multimillionaire is not a long time, but to clean the bathroom might  be a different story.



 Esattamente!! 
Giusta osservazione*. Grazie per la risposta, Ylr! 

Edit: *Mi ricorda vagamente qualcosa... e un fisico tedesco abbastanza "famoso"...


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## GavinW

Tellure said:


> "mai come mai" potrebbe andare?



Non credo... Piuttosto: "mai e poi mai".

EDIT: As for the usage (riportato fedelmente da Tellure, who is of course blameless) of "a month of Sundays" without "never in...", you know what? I don't recognise it at all. I actually think our friends at thefreedictionary have got their knickers a bit tied in a knot over this expression, and have forgotten how it's used. As far as I'm concerned, it's only ever "negative" ("never in a..."), and never "positive" ("it took us a month of Sundays to chop all that wood" or whatever). And they got the register label wrong too: no way is this "informal". Bah... some people don't know how to compile dictionaries, or maybe they just love leading people up the garden path. I suppose it gives them some kind of perverse pleasure. Ho-hum, whatever floats your boat, as my old grandma was wont to say (not). ;-)


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## You little ripper!

GavinW said:


> Non credo... Piuttosto: "mai e poi mai".
> 
> EDIT: As for the usage (riportato fedelmente da Tellure, who is of course blameless) of "a month of Sundays" without "never in...", you know what? I don't recognise it at all. I actually think our friends at thefreedictionary have got their knickers a bit tied in a knot over this expression, and have forgotten how it's used. As far as I'm concerned, it's only ever "negative" ("never in a..."), and never "positive" ("it took us a month of Sundays to chop all that wood" or whatever). And they got the register label wrong too: no way is this "informal". Bah... some people don't know how to compile dictionaries, or maybe they just love leading people up the garden path. I suppose it gives them some kind of perverse pleasure. Ho-hum, whatever floats your boat, as my old grandma was wont to say (not). ;-)


'_Never_ in a month of Sundays' may have been the original expression, Gavin, but the positive form has become quite popular, if Google is anything to go by.

it will take a month of Sundays


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## GavinW

Thyanks for correcting me, Ripper. I take it all back. Sackcloth and ashes time for me. The only reason I'm not deleting my post is so that my hubris may stand as a lesson to future foreros not to err as obviously and spectacularly as did I! It'll take me a month of Sundays to live down the shame! ;-)


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## You little ripper!

GavinW said:


> Thyanks for correcting me, Ripper. I take it all back. Sackcloth and ashes time for me. The only reason I'm not deleting my post is so that my hubris may stand as a lesson to future foreros not to err as obviously and spectacularly as did I! It'll take me a month of Sundays to live down the shame! ;-)


 Don't be ridiculous, Gavin - it wasn't a correction! All I was suggesting was that it appears that someone has changed the original expression from a negative one to a positive one, and it seems to have caught on.  

However, I do hope you're massaging those hot ashes into every part of your anatomy to get the full benefit.


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## GavinW

Actually, I was being sincere. My understanding of the way language behaves is that, even if you are right, and my earlier take was the "original" meaning (and therefore could be argued to have some sort of "preferential status"), the mere fact the (more recent?) "variant" has "caught on" gives it full bona fide status, and I should/should have been aware of it. So I mean it. I am grateful for the correction. PS: I waited for the ashes to cool down a bit....


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## Tellure

GavinW said:


> Non credo... Piuttosto: "mai e poi mai".



Ciao Gavin! 

Che sbadata che sono! Naturalmente intendevo "mai e poi mai", grazie per averlo notato e segnalato. 

Comunque la discussione su "a month of Sundays" a me è stata molto utile. Vi ringrazio tutti.


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## GavinW

Tellure said:


> Naturalmente intendevo "mai e poi mai"...



Ciao Tellure! I thought so.... ;-)
Good OP question, keep 'em coming!


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## sorry66

You little ripper! said:


> It would take about seven and a half months to get 30 consecutive Sundays, a long time in some people's book.


I thought the reference to 'Sundays' was as a 'day off/day of rest' so the expression meant that even you had a whole month 'free from work and other engagements' (as if every day were Sunday for 30 days) you still wouldn't get done whatever it is you were aiming to do, but it appears that most references corroborate your idea of how long it takes to get through 30 Sundays.
The Oxford English Dictionary cites the first printed use of the phrase from 1759:
_“The commander..swore he should dance to the second part of the same tune, for a *month of Sundays*.”
H. MURRAY Life & Real Adventures Hamilton Murray I. x. 121_
Some people thought of it like me!





*NEW QUESTION!*
I want to translate the following:

'_These women were airheads, they would just faff about and not manage to get their houses neat and tidy, not even in a month of Sundays_'

Context: A cleaning lady is reflecting on what her clients would do/how they would behave if they had to clean their own houses.

My attempt:
'_Queste donne avevano le teste vuote, cincischierebbero e non riuscirebbero da mettere in ordine loro case, nemmeno in un mese fatto tutto di domeniche_'


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## Jasmyn

1. Queste donne sono teste vuote! Non farebbero altro che trastullarsi, e le loro case  sarebbero pulite e ordinate _*nel giorno di mai e mese di poi! / alle calende greche! *_
Ma queste espressioni hanno il significato di _mai. 
2. Non riuscirebbero a mettere in ordine le loro case neanche _*quando l'A3 (Salerno-Reggio Calabria) sarà completata! *
_Questa espressione non è un modo di dire ma sicuramente rende l'idea a tutti gli italiani!
3.Non farebbero altro che trastullarsi, e per mettere in ordine le loro case ci impiegherebbero *un anno / una vita! *_
Penso che queste ultime espressioni siano le più adatte.


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## sorry66

That's great, thanks, Jasmyn! I like the one about the 'A3' - can I say 'almeno non prima che l'A3  sarà completata'? Like that, there's still some slim hope that the housework will get done!


Jasmyn said:


> nel giorno di mai e mese di poi


What does this mean exactly?


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## Mary49

"nel giorno del mai e mese del poi"   = "the twelfth of never"   the twelfth of never (the 12th of never)


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## sorry66

Thanks, Mary.


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## Jasmyn

_"Non riuscirebbero a mettere in ordine le loro case neanche quando l'A3 (Salerno-Reggio Calabria) sarà completata*!*"
Vs
"Non riuscirebbero a mettere in ordine le loro case almeno non prima che l'A3 sarà completata" ?
Grammaticalmente la seconda è corretta, ma, secondo una mia personale impressione "almeno non prima che" sposta e accentua di più l'attenzione sull'argomento A3 piuttosto che sulle donnine svogliate! Ma forse è solo un'impressione sbagliata. Quando invece si dice "neanche quando", l'interlocutore già si aspetta di sentire un'iperbole._


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## sorry66

Ok, thanks!
I thought that in the first case 'neanche quando' suggested that the 'housework will never be finished'.
In the second case 'almeno non prima che' - 'the housework will be finished but in a very long time or possibly never'

I'm guessing that the A3 will be finished one day!


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## Jasmyn

We all are guessing it too!  I was editing my #19 post when you answered. Check It out! I don't know how to explain , "almeno non prima che" sounds strange to me. I wait for some compatriots give them opinion, as well.
Correct my English please.


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## sorry66

Jasmyn said:


> I'm waiting for some compatriots to give their opinion


I've corrected it!
'a month of Sundays' is 'a long period of time'.
The point is that the women will always find an excuse to put off (postpone) the work but it doesn't mean they will never finish it, it's just unlikely.


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## Jasmyn

Thanks @sorry66 for your corrections! I love to be corrected! 


sorry66 said:


> it doesn't mean they will never finish it, it's just unlikely.


Then you can just add a "forse" : _e forse non riuscirebbero a mettere in ordine le loro case neanche* in tempo per la prossima vittoria dell'Inter*._. for example! 
Or also: _e per rendere le loro case pulite e ordinate ci impiegherebbero *tempi biblici. *_


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## johngiovanni

It does mean they will *never* finish it. Un'eternita' non basterebbe per farlo.

A month of Sundays is not just a long time.  It's impossible, given our calendar.


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## Jasmyn

johngiovanni said:


> It does mean they will *never* finish it. Un'eternita' non basterebbe per farlo.
> 
> A month of Sundays is not just a long time.  It's impossible, given our calendar.


If you are right as I think, then the right translations are: 1.nel giorno di mai e mese di poi; 2. alle calende greche. The others I mentioned mean in a very long time.


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## rrose17

To me the meaning is 30 Sundays (so 2 1/2 years) not impossible but the _implication_ is always never. In any case it's a hyperbole and not meant to be taken literally.


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## sorry66

johngiovanni said:


> A month of Sundays is not just a long time. It's impossible, given our calendar.


 Why is it impossible?

a month of Sundays -_informal_ a very long period of time.
Oxford_ - informal_ A very long, seemingly endless period of time
_Cambridge_ - a month of Sundays › an extremely long time.

not in a month of Sundays* - *Cambridge
› If you say that something will not happen in a month of Sundays, you mean that it is very *unlikely* to happen:

'Never' would be 'never in a month of Sundays':
never in a month of Sundays - Wiktionary

Thanks everyone for your help!


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## johngiovanni

Come ha detto mio pronipote:  "Never in a month of Sundays?  You mean it's not going to happen, grand(d)ad!"


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## King Crimson

Based on the last few inputs from native speakers I would say that 'mai e poi mai' doesn't work as a translation for the OP, as it positively states it will _never_ happen, whereas I understand that 'Never in a month of Sundays' is not so explicit (re: post #26). I'd rather suggest something like:

_L'esperto costituzionalista Alan Trench ha detto che, alla nascita della devoluzione gallese, ci si sarebbe potuti aspettare che nemmeno in un milione di anni il Galles avrebbe finito per avere un sistema scolastico diverso da quello inglese_.

To me 'nemmeno in un milione di anni' (or something to that effect) doesn't say it is never going to happen (taken literally it could mean it might happen in a billion years), but that almost certainly it won't happen.


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## rrose17

Last night in the "giallo" I'm reading I came across this exchange between the P.I. and his policeman enemy/friend. Here it seems to mean a long, unspecified time. So I think we can safely say the meaning is "fluid". 
_"What would you give to get at him?" I asked.
"I'd lay off your ass for a month of Sundays."
"Is that a February month or August?"
Kit's smile was anything but friendly..._


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## King Crimson

That's fine, but now I'm curious about the meaning of the line where (she?) says 'I'd lay off your ass...'


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## rrose17

Kit's another man and he means he won't cause him grief, he won't "ride his ass" is another way to say it. Nothing sexual about it!


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## King Crimson

Too bad... I was expecting something more "interesting", if you get my drift

Anyway, I think we could translate that line as _Smetterei di starti addosso / col fiato sul collo fino alle calende greche _(just to use one of the suggestions given earlier).


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