# Civilisation



## ThomasK

In English it refers to a citizen's attitude, being civil, not barbaric. 

But in Dutch it is _*beschaving*_. And that reminds of _polite, poli_: schaven is to polish wood. So civilisation entails adapting to standards, polishing off certain hard edges, controlling oneself. 

So how do you translate civilisation in your language? Adn what is the root of the word ? 

See also the _polite_ topic...


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## rusita preciosa

For Russian it's kind of boring: both words are borrowed directly from Latin and Greek:
civilization: *цивилизация* /tsivilizatsiya/
barbarism: *варварство* /varvarstvo/


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## Orlin

rusita preciosa said:


> For Russian it's kind of boring: both words are borrowed directly from Latin and Greek:
> civilization: *цивилизация* /tsivilizatsiya/
> barbarism: *варварство* /varvarstvo/


 
The same in Bulgarian.


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## Rallino

*In Turkish*, we use the same meaning as in English.

medeni = civil / civilized

medeniyet = civilisation


By the way they're both loan words from Arabic.


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## ThomasK

Would you have an idea of their origin, Rallino, or their precise meaning? 

In both these case, Turkish and Slavic languages, I am a little amazed at the fact that a non-Turkish or non-Slavic word is used. Can there be some reason for that?


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## Rallino

ThomasK said:


> Would you have an idea of their origin, Rallino, or their precise meaning?
> 
> In both these case, Turkish and Slavic languages, I am a little amazed at the fact that a non-Turkish or non-Slavic word is used. Can there be some reason for that?



I looked in the dictionary of synonyms. And I was like: "Jesus...of course there is also the word *Uygarlık*"

_Sorry, I'm going through a little hangover period, I didn't think thoroughly _

Uygar = civil / modern

*Uygarlık = medeniyet.* Both are used equally often.


Etymological dictionary states that *Uygar *is a derivation from _Uyghur_.
And the arabic word *Medeni* is a reference to the city _Madina
_
 Ar madanī مدنى  [nsb.] urban < Ar madīnat مدينة  [_#mdn_] city, metropolis, country.


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## ThomasK

(Great to see you're back on earth, or in town !)

Intriguing though: could those be references to cities simply (like _civil_) or to cities that constitute the heart of a culture/ religion?


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
*-Civilisation:* «Πολιτισμός» (politiz'mos, _m._); it is formed by the joining together of the feminine noun «πόλις» + masculine suffix «-ισμός» (for forming nouns of action, state, condition, doctrine). Initially, as a Hellenistic masculine noun described _"administrative affairs pertaining to Polis"_. Later (probably 2-3 centuries ago) it changed meaning. It derives from the classical feminine noun «πόλις» ('pŏlis), Homeric «πτόλις» ('ptŏlis, _f._), Mycenean Linear B «po-to-ri-jo». Cognate with Sanskrit _pūr_, Latvian _pile_, Lithuanian _pilis_ («πόλις» was the citadel, the castle/fortress in the center of the city and intended as a final point of defense)

*-Civilised:* «Πολιτισμένος, -η, -ο» (participle: politiz'menos, _m_, politiz'meni, _f._, politiz'meno, _n._). It's a neologism


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## Rallino

ThomasK said:


> (Great to see you're back on earth, or in town !)
> 
> Intriguing though: could those be references to cities simply (like _civil_) or to cities that constitute the heart of a culture/ religion?



I'd say the latter. I don't know why Arabic chose the city Madina, and not for example Macca; but it's certainly related to religion and therefore to culture.

Uyghurs had indeed a rich culture, so I suppose that's why the Turkish word is related to it.


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## ilocas2

Czech language:

*civilizace* - It means only a technologically advanced society without any reference to politeness.


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*: _
sivilisaatio _n. 'high culture'
_sivistys _n. _sivistynyt _v. (civilisation, civilised, but esp. academic-wise)

Culture: There's a very popular type of books sold here in Finland, _sivistyssanakirja _(lit. civilisation dictionary), which doesn't exist in other cultures, I believe. It is used if you have a foreign borrowing and want to check which neologism corresponds it in Finnish.

For example: not all of us know what _debatti _or _ovaali_ is (I'm sure *you* know it better!), but the dictionary tells they actually mean _väittely _and _soikio. _ Eg. politicians may prefer the word _debatti_, because it sounds fancier and more "academic": _Meillä oli pitkä debatti aiheesta_. That's how they make themselves look so wise ...

More examples: _konflikti -> kiista, kompulsiivinen -> pakonomainen, hypoteettinen -> otaksuttu, oletettu, dimensio -> ulottuvuus
_


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## ThomasK

Could you find a rationale behind that, Sakvaka? Is this some kind of 'purism' (?) imposed by someone (I think you referred to him before)? 

Just wondering: would you have a word for _tradition_ in the cultural sense (ways of behaving and thinking, passed on from one generation to the next)?


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Just wondering: would you have a word for _tradition_ in the cultural sense (ways of behaving and thinking, passed on from one generation to the next)?


Yes we do in Greek:
«Παράδοση» (pa'raðosi, _f._); from the ancient feminine 3rd declension noun «παράδοσις» (pa'raðosis). It derives from the ancient verb «Παραδίδωμι» (para'ðiðōmi)-->_ to hand over to another, transmit_


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## Outsider

In Portuguese there is _*civilização*_ (origin and meaning are the obvious ones) and also the less frequently used word _*civismo*_. The latter means something like "good citizenship". It also has a secondary connotation of "politeness".


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## ThomasK

And do you consider it semantically related with civilisation, Apmoy ? I can imagine with us that we could say someone *'heeft cultuur/ stij*l' (in fact [he has] upbringing/ style respectively), meaning he or she behaves in a civilised way -- though not too common in Dutch.


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> (1) Could you find a rationale behind that, Sakvaka? Is this some kind of 'purism' (?) imposed by someone (I think you referred to him before)?
> 
> (2) Just wondering: would you have a word for _tradition_ in the cultural sense (ways of behaving and thinking, passed on from one generation to the next)?



(1) You're right that there have been many 'purist movements' in the language history of Finnish. However, the most _sivistyssanat_ appeared to the academic circles later: the original Finnish words existed before them. And even today you can hear a frustrated _Puhu suomea!! _(Speak Finnish) if you use _sivistyssanat_ too much. 

(2) Yes, we have. _Perinne _or sometimes _perintö_. _Traditio _is also possible if we want to sound smart.


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## ThomasK

Thanks, S. So
(1) the word _sivistyssanat_ is also a verb, is it ? 
(2) I only realized afterwards that it is not tradition that can mean something like civilisation with us, but culture or style, as I said in #15. So do you recognize something like that in Finnish ?


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, S. So
> (1) the word _sivistyssanat_ is also a verb, is it ?
> (2) I only realized afterwards that it is not tradition that can mean something like civilisation with us, but culture or style, as I said in #15. So do you recognize something like that in Finnish ?



(1) no, it's not; _civilisation + words_
(2) I am not completely sure of what you mean. I don't think _culture _and _style_ are close enough to _civilisation_ that they could replace it. But they indeed are closer than _tradition_.


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## ThomasK

I understand your problem. But there is a funny way in which the general words like _culture_ and _style_ suddenly mean more. _Fashion_ for example is the word _façon,_ way_,_ in French, but now it refers to a very special way, a 'normative' way, of dressing, that is considered a standard, to be imitated. With us _fatsoen_ means decency. You see. Just wondered whether the same mechanism worked with you...


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> And do you consider it semantically related with civilisation, Apmoy ? I can imagine with us that we could say someone *'heeft cultuur/ stij*l' (in fact [he has] upbringing/ style respectively), meaning he or she behaves in a civilised way -- though not too common in Dutch.


Yes, we do; we transmit/hand over not only culture but also the distinctive spirit of a culture/civilisation/style, its ethos


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> With us _fatsoen_ means decency. You see. Just wondered whether the same mechanism worked with you...



I don't know how to answer your question.  Note that both _kulttuuri _and _tyyli_ are foreign borrowings in Finnish.


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## ThomasK

Are you suggesting ethos is a particular quality of culture? I understand and agree, but etymologically I find the evolution from a descriptive to a normative quality very striking and special, as I explained in #19... But thanks !


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## itreius

Croatian

civilizacija
barbarizam / barbarstvo


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## Rallino

itreius said:


> Croatian
> 
> civilizacija
> barbarizam / barbarstvo



Are they synonyms or antonyms?


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## Orlin

Rallino said:


> Are they synonyms or antonyms?


 
Civilizacija=civilization, antonym of the pair of synonyms barbarizam / barbarstvo.


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## phosphore

Here we say civilizacija for civilisation and varvarizam, varvarstvo for babarism. The former might also mean "a loanword that is not well incorpored in the language system", while the latter means "barbaric act" too.


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## Sikaranista

In Spanish it is nearly the same as English:  _civilización_


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## Encolpius

Big surprise: in *Hungarian *only: civilizáció


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## ThomasK

I'd like to ask a general question concerning those languages that only have a word with a Latin root: how about words for tradition, culture? Could there be some rationale in it ? (One never knows...)


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## mataripis

*Tagalog:1.) Civilization= Kabihasnan* 2.) Civilize= Bihasa


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## ThomasK

I am repeatig my question now because I know there are some loyal Japanese and Chinese around. When I checked on the translation of "civilisation", "culture" and "style" at Google, I noticed they contained the same kanji in Japanese and Chinese. I got these (in Chinese):  文明;, 文化,  風格...


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## 810senior

Japanese:

Civilization could be translated in every way depending on the context where it is used, below are some examples:
The stage of human/cultural development = 文明bun-mei, which is the translation corresponding to _civilization _which was coined in Meiji period; 文(study, intelligence) and 明(to clarify, to disclose, open-revealed).
The culture/society in a particular area = 文化bun-ka; 分(same as the above) and 化(to affect)
The convenience of a modern living = 文明生活bunmei seikatsu(lit. _Bunmei _living)
The act of civilizing = 教化kyouka or 開化kaika; 教(to teach), 開(to open, to enlighten) and 化(-lize)


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## Messquito

810senior said:


> Civilization could be translated in every way depending on the context where it is used, below are some examples:
> The stage of human/cultural development = 文明bun-mei, which is the translation corresponding to _civilization _which was coined in Meiji period; 文(study, intelligence) and 明(to clarify, to disclose, open-revealed).
> The culture/society in a particular area = 文化bun-ka; 分(same as the above) and 化(to affect)
> The convenience of a modern living = 文明生活bunmei seikatsu(lit. _Bunmei _living)
> The act of civilizing = 教化kyouka or 開化kaika; 教(to teach), 開(to open, to enlighten) and 化(-lize)


In Chinese, it's basically the same because most of these terms are from Japan.
Let me add a few more remarks about the use of 文明, it is also used to mean civilization as in "ancient civilizations", "ancient Egyptian civilization", etc. But it's mostly used on "ancient ones" when we talk about the history.


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## ThomasK

Very enlightening. Thanks, both of you!

To me it is somehow strange that study and intelligence are - etymologically speaking - considered the heart of civilization. I am generally inclined to think it mostly refers to an attitude (way of behaving) imposed from a centre of power, but it is true, to some extent it can be developed by means of some kind of learning. But this might carry us too far.


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## 810senior

@Messquito, yes I recall myself that I have often heard of it in the history lesson mainly telling of the ancient civilizations. This word seems to me like the remains from ancient times.


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