# Serbian/Croatian (BCS): Differences



## Mac_Linguist

The thread *Serbian/Croatian: One language?* is getting rather big, so I thought I'd open a similar thread. I hope you don't mind. 

I'm interested in the differences in vocabulary between the Serbian, Croatian, and even Bosnian languages.

None of the stupid jokes like "okolotrbušni pantalonodržač"!


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## Maja

Serbian - Croatian
Hleb - kruh 
paradajz - rajčica 
doktorka- doktorica
ćelija - stanica
polni - spolni
...


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## chung

Croatian  / Serbian

vlak / voz
mrkva / sargarepa
kolodvor / stanica
obitelj / familija or porodica
siječanj / januar
veljača / februar
ožujak / mart
travanj / april
svibanj / maj
lipanj / juni
srpanj / juli
kolovoz / avgust
rujan / septembar
listopad / oktobar
studeni / novembar
prosinac / decembar

(For the sake of simplicity, I'm assuming that you don't want a list of  words based on whether they're ijekavski or ekavski. Otherwise, your list would be filled with words that differ regularly only because of the evolution of yat - e.g. djevojka vs. devojka, mlijeko vs. mleko etc.)


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## Mac_Linguist

chung said:


> (For the sake of simplicity, I'm assuming that you don't want a list of words based on whether they're ijekavski or ekavski. Otherwise, your list would be filled with words that differ regularly only because of the evolution of yat - e.g. djevojka vs. devojka, mlijeko vs. mleko etc.)



No. My knowledge of Serbian is reasonably good and I'm well aware of the ekavian and ijekavian differences. I was interested in differences such as those you've pointed out - such as the names of the months, etc.

Are there any unique _Croatisms_?

I'm researching Croatian purism, so any addition here is appreciated.


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## Maja

Serbian - Croatian
bioskop - kino
mobilni - mobitel
...

p.s. do you want us to make one list and just add examples onto it?


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## Mac_Linguist

Maja said:


> p.s. do you want us to make one list and just add examples onto it?



That'd be great. Thank you.


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## Maja

OK, here it is:

* SERBIAN* - *CROATIAN*
hleb - kruh 
paradajz - rajčica 
doktorka- doktorica
ćelija - stanica
polni - spolni
bioskop - kino
mobilni - mobitel
hiljada - tisuća
voz -  vlak 
šargarepa -  mrkva
stanica -  kolodvor
porodica/familija -  obitelj

months:
januar - siječanj 
februar - veljača 
mart - ožujak 
april - travanj 
maj - svibanj 
juni - lipanj 
juli - srpanj 
avgust - kolovoz 
septembar - rujan 
oktobar - listopad 
novembar - studeni 
decembar - prosinac


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## Anatoli

What an amazing difference 

Here's some link for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_in_standard_Serbian,_Croatian_and_Bosnian


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## natasha2000

What a refreshing new thread!

Apart of the differences in vocabulary, there are some differences in morphology and syntaxis. Croats use infinitive where Serbs use the formula "da + present".

Example:

Croatian: Moram ići kući.
Serbian: Moram da idem kući.

Future tense:

Croatian:
vidjet ću
vidjet ćeš
vidjet će 
vidjet ćemo
vidjet ćete
vidjet će

Serbian:
videćemo
videćete
videće
videćemo
videćete 
videće


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## GoranBcn

hleb - kruh 
paradajz - rajčica 
doktorka- doktorica
ćelija - stanica
polni - spolni
bioskop - kino
mobilni - mobitel
hiljada - tisuća
voz -  vlak 
šargarepa -  mrkva
stanica -  kolodvor
porodica/familija -  obitelj
sprat - kat
Kuda ideš? - Kamo ideš?
ko - tko
neko - netko
ambasada - veleposlanstvo
avion - zrakoplov
aerodrom - zračna luka
prevodilac - prevoditelj
gledalac - gledatelj
kašika - žlica
opština  - općina
narandža - naranča
 
months:
januar - siječanj 
februar - veljača 
mart - ožujak 
april - travanj 
maj - svibanj 
juni - lipanj 
juli - srpanj 
avgust - kolovoz 
septembar - rujan 
oktobar - listopad 
novembar - studeni 
decembar - prosinac


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## Maja

GoranBcn said:


> narandža - *naranča*



Really??? I didn't know!


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## natasha2000

Maja said:


> Really??? I didn't know!


 
As a matter of fact, Serbs also say POMORANDŽA.


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## ciganka

hi!

uuf i didn't know that is such a big difference...so i can't say anymore that i speak serbocroatian (so i have to say that i speak serbian-in my case!), usually we that think it's more or less the same.

interesting!


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## natasha2000

ciganka said:


> hi!
> 
> uuf i didn't know that is such a big difference...so i can't say anymore that i speak serbocroatian (so i have to say that i speak serbian-in my case!), usually we that think it's more or less the same.
> 
> interesting!


 
But it is!

If you pay attention, you'll see that all differences were written by Serbs and Croats, which means that we all usually know the other word used by the other ones...


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## ciganka

yes you are right! 

but in general you (Serbs and Croats) are not very sensitive about that no? at least not with slovenians, we mix everything!


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## natasha2000

ciganka said:


> yes you are right!
> 
> but in general you (Serbs and Croats) are not very sensitive about that no? at least not with slovenians, we mix everything!


 
You have stupid people everywhere. But in general, nobody will mind. The important thing is communication.


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## Maja

* SERBIAN* - *CROATIAN*
hleb - kruh 
paradajz - rajčica 
ćelija - stanica
polni - spolni
bioskop - kino
mobilni - mobitel
hiljada - tisuća
voz -  vlak 
šargarepa -  mrkva
stanica -  kolodvor
porodica/familija -  obitelj
sprat - kat
Kuda/gde ideš? - Kamo ideš?
ko - tko
neko - netko
ambasada - veleposlanstvo
avion - zrakoplov
aerodrom - zračna luka
kašika - žlica
opština  - općina
narandža - naranča
prečica - kratica
Hrist(os) - Krist
Hrišćanstvo - Kršćanstvo
tačka - točka
tačno - točno
opština - općina

doktorka- doktorica
 prevodilac - prevoditelj
gledalac - gledatelj

months:
januar - siječanj 
februar - veljača 
mart - ožujak 
april - travanj 
maj - svibanj 
juni - lipanj 
juli - srpanj 
avgust - kolovoz 
septembar - rujan 
oktobar - listopad 
novembar - studeni 
decembar - prosinac


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## GoranBcn

hleb - kruh 
paradajz - rajčica 
ćelija - stanica
polni - spolni
bioskop - kino
mobilni - mobitel
hiljada - tisuća
voz -  vlak 
šargarepa -  mrkva
stanica -  kolodvor
porodica/familija -  obitelj
sprat - kat
Kuda/gde ideš? - Kamo ideš?
ko - tko
neko - netko
ambasada - veleposlanstvo
avion - zrakoplov
aerodrom - zračna luka
kašika - žlica
opština  - općina
narandža - naranča
prečica - kratica
Hrist(os) - Krist
Hrišćanstvo - Kršćanstvo
tačka - točka
tačno - točno
kafa - kava
uvo - uho
Španija - Španjolska
Španac - Španjolac
prodavnica - dućan
penzija - mirovina

doktorka- doktorica
 prevodilac - prevoditelj
gledalac - gledatelj
months:
januar - siječanj 
februar - veljača 
mart - ožujak 
april - travanj 
maj - svibanj 
juni - lipanj 
juli - srpanj 
avgust - kolovoz 
septembar - rujan 
oktobar - listopad 
novembar - studeni 
decembar - prosinac


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## natasha2000

Deco, ne ponavljajte molim vas, reci koje ste vec napisali... Mnogo je konfuzno.




> prodavnica - dućan


I remembered one more word in Croatian, well, as amatter of fact, Dalmatian. - BUTIGA. 
I'll never forget Boris Dvornik from "Vilo misto" when he says: "Neću politiku u moju butigu!"

One more:

S     -      H
lopta   -  balun (or this is also only Dalmatian speech?)


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## GoranBcn

Zdravo Teta Nataša.  To je ono za "deco"... 

Pa nismo ponavljali. Nove riječi koje smo dodali su crvene boje.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

natasha2000 said:


> S - H
> lopta - balun (or this is also only Dalmatian speech?)


No, it's _lopta_.

(I just watched the Cibona-Maccabi game and didn't hear anything but lopta all game long. I double checked Croatian sports web sites and there's lopta everywhere.)

Balun exists only in Dalmatia as you said.


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## vince

ciganka said:


> hi!
> 
> uuf i didn't know that is such a big difference...so i can't say anymore that i speak serbocroatian (so i have to say that i speak serbian-in my case!), usually we that think it's more or less the same.
> 
> interesting!



Are you familiar with the differences between British and American? The types of differences highlighted in this thread are the same types of differences between the British language and the American language. And the ekavian vs. ijekavian differences is exactly like the U.S. South's drawl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawl

Should we then say that Americans speak a different language than the people in the UK?



			
				Maja said:
			
		

> Kuda/gde ideš?




So Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian doesn't distinguish between "where (at)" and "where (to)"?


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## natasha2000

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> No, it's _lopta_.
> 
> (I just watched the Cibona-Maccabi game and didn't hear anything but lopta all game long. I double checked Croatian sports web sites and there's lopta everywhere.)
> 
> Balun exists only in Dalmatia as you said.


 
Thanks, my mistake.


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## natasha2000

GoranBcn said:


> Zdravo Teta Nataša.  To je ono za "deco"...
> 
> Pa nismo ponavljali. Nove riječi koje smo dodali su crvene boje.


 
A stare su u plavoj. Izadje mi post ok kilometar i po, a na kraju ispadne da novoga ima samo pola kilometra.
Nemoj, to teta, molim te... U godinama sam kad mi vise prija da mi kazu da izgledam mladje..


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## papillon

...and if one of you kind people have some extra time and feels particularly generous, maybe you can give the rest of us the English version as well ... 

I mean, between the Croatian and the Sebian versions, I can guess some of the words, I can sort of guess some others...

hleb - kruh    ok, this is easy, bread
paradajz - rajčica    paradise
doktorka- doktorica,  female doctor
ćelija - stanica    village??
polni - spolni    full, complete??
bioskop - kino    movie
mobilni - mobitel   mobil phone
hiljada - tisuća     thousand
voz -  vlak     carraige ??
šargarepa -  mrkva   carrot??
stanica -  kolodvor    village??
porodica/familija -  obitelj   family
sprat - kat   executioner ????? (similar to Ukrainian kat ??)


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## natasha2000

Some of it is pure chat. It'll be deleted anyway

Here's some corrections.



papillon said:


> ...and if one of you kind people have some extra time and feels particularly generous, maybe you can give the rest of us the English version as well ...
> 
> I mean, between the Croatian and the Sebian versions, I can guess some of the words, I can sort of guess some others...
> 
> hleb - kruh ok, this is easy, bread OK
> paradajz - rajčica paradise TOMATO
> doktorka- doktorica, female doctor OK
> ćelija - stanica village?? CELL
> polni - spolni full, complete?? SEX (as an adjective), but there's also SEX as gender - pol (S) - spol (H) (I'm not sure about this in Croatian, please someone confirm or correct)
> bioskop - kino movie OK but as in cinema theatre, not movie picture itself
> mobilni - mobitel mobil phone OK
> hiljada - tisuća thousand OK
> voz - vlak carraige ?? train
> šargarepa - mrkva carrot?? OK
> stanica - kolodvor village?? station (as in train station)
> porodica/familija - obitelj family OK
> sprat - kat executioner ????? (similar to Ukrainian kat ??) OK floor as in 2nd floor, not the floor you walk on


 
I am curious. How do Croats say cell as prision cell, or monastery cell where monks sleep? In Serbian it is the same as tissue CELL. - ćelija


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## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> I am curious. How do Croats say cell as prision cell, or monastery cell where monks sleep? In Serbian it is the same as tissue CELL. - ćelija


In croatian:
cell=stanica(if we talk about the basic unit of an organism)
in other 2 examples we use word *ćelija 

Anyway:
- balun *is not standard word. Used only on the coast.*
-butiga *also


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## el_tigre

papillon said:


> .
> 
> mobilni - mobitel   mobil phone


MOBilni TELefon would be a direct translation of the word mobil phone
however, in speech 99% say mobitel



papillon said:


> .
> sprat - kat   executioner ????? (similar to Ukrainian kat ??)


sprat(ser.)=kat(cro.)=floor(of the building)


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> In croatian:
> cell=stanica(if we talk about the basic unit of an organism)
> in other 2 examples we use word *ćelija *


Thank you.


*



Anyway:
- balun is not standard word. Used only on the coast.
-butiga also
		
Click to expand...

 
We alredy got the answers on those. Thank you, anyway.*


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> MOBilni TELefon would be a direct translation of the word mobil phone
> however, in speech 99% say mobitel
> 
> 
> sprat(ser.)=kat(cro.)=floor(of the building)


 
I wonder if you read previous posts....


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## el_tigre

Serbian-Croatian
amabasador-veleposlanik
 avion - zrakoplov
avijacija-zrakoplovstvo
gluv-gluh
firma-tvrtka
dockan-kasno
zadocniti-zakasniti
hartija-papir
sjutra-sutra
falsifikat-krivotvorina
uhapsiti-uhititi
hapšenje-uhidba,uhićenje
ćumur-ugljen


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## el_tigre

uniforma-odora
pegla-glačalo
peglati-glačati
izviniti se-ispričati se
štampati-tiskati
štampa-tisak
pješadija-pješaštvo
saopštiti-priopćiti
apoteka-ljekarna
pasoš-putovnica


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> Serbian-Croatian
> 
> hartija-papir (Serbs also use the word papir)
> sjutra-sutra (Sjutra is a word used in Montenegro and other parts where ijekavski is spoken. Serbs speaking ekavski say: sutra)
> ćumur-ugljen (ćumur is only one kind of coal. Serbs say UGALJ)
> 
> pješadija-pješaštvo (pešadija in ekavski)


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## Maja

natasha2000 said:


> A stare su u plavoj. Izadje mi post ok kilometar i po, a na kraju ispadne da novoga ima samo pola kilometra.



Thread-starter, Mac_Linguist, je želeo  da sve bude na jednoj listi.


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## Maja

vince said:


> So Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian doesn't distinguish between "where (at)" and "where (to)"?


As far as I know, you can use GDE in various situations (where are my keys,  where are the toilets, where are you going), however KUDA can only be used for  direction. 
People, if you know any different, please correct me!


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## natasha2000

Maja said:


> As far as I know, you can use GDE in various situations (where are my keys, where are the toilets, where are you going), however KUDA can only be used for direction.
> People, if you know any different, please correct me!


I would say the same.

Where (at) - GDE

Where to - KUDA

Neka listu pravi sam od delova koje mu ovde damo. Postovi ispadnu mlogo dugacki, bje!


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## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> I would say the same.
> 
> sjutra-sutra (Sjutra is a word used in Montenegro and other parts where ijekavski is spoken. Serbs speaking ekavski say: sutra)



that has no connection with ikavski/ekavski/ijekavski differences .
JU has no connectio nwith _yat_-reflex


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## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> I would say the same.
> 
> Where (at) - GDE
> 
> Where to - KUDA
> 
> Neka listu pravi sam od delova koje mu ovde damo. Postovi ispadnu mlogo dugacki, bje!



I don't how it is in serbian ,but in standard croatian is:
Gdje si?
*Possible answers:*
-U Osijeku sam .
- U Đakovu sam . 
-U Parizu sam.
Kamo ideš?
*Possible answers:*
-Idem u Split. 
-Idem u planine
Kuda ideš?
*Possible answers:
*-Idem autocestom.
-Idem preko Like
-idem D1 cestom itd.


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## el_tigre

Anyway, I suggest the next thing:
Beeing that there are some words that do exist in standard of both language I suggest the following convention:
*Serbian-Croatian*
avion(c+)-zrakoplov
firma(c+)-tvrtka
dockan-kasno(s+)
hartija-papir(s+)

*Zrakoplov* and *tvrtka *are exclusively croatian words. But in croatian are as well used *avion* and *firma*. So we put (c+) besides to them.

*Dockan* and *hartija* are exclusively serbian words. But in serbian are as well used* kasno* and *papir*. So we put (s+) besides to them.


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## el_tigre

el_tigre said:


> Anyway, I suggest the next thing:
> Beeing that there are some words that do exist in standard of both language I suggest the following convention:
> *Serbian-Croatian*
> avion(c+)-zrakoplov
> firma(c+)-tvrtka
> dockan-kasno(s+)
> hartija-papir(s+)
> 
> *Zrakoplov* and *tvrtka *are exclusively croatian words. But in croatian are as well used *avion* and *firma*. So we put (c+) besides to them.
> 
> *Dockan* and *hartija* are exclusively serbian words. But in serbian are as well used* kasno* and *papir*. So we put (s+) besides to them.


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> that has no connection with ikavski/ekavski/ijekavski differences .
> JU has no connectio nwith _yat_-reflex


 
Whatever. Serbs say SUTRA.


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> Anyway, I suggest the next thing:
> Beeing that there are some words that do exist in standard of both language I suggest the following convention:
> *Serbian-Croatian*
> avion(c+)-zrakoplov
> firma(c+)-tvrtka
> dockan-kasno(s+)
> hartija-papir(s+)
> 
> *Zrakoplov* and *tvrtka *are exclusively croatian words. But in croatian are as well used *avion* and *firma*. So we put (c+) besides to them.
> 
> *Dockan* and *hartija* are exclusively serbian words. But in serbian are as well used* kasno* and *papir*. So we put (s+) besides to them.


 
This sounds a good idea.


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## natasha2000

Maja said:


> Thread-starter, Mac_Linguist, je želeo da sve bude na jednoj listi.


 
Imas pravo. Sad sam videla njegov post. Izvinjavam se sto sam dosadna.


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## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> Whatever. Serbs say SUTRA.


You want to *Serbians*(Srbijanci)-Serbs from Serbia??

I read couple books of Branko Ćopić(a Serbian writter from Western Bosnia& Herzegovina, village Hasani , region close to Bihać)

He uses s*j*utra!
One quote from _Magareće godine_:


> Ako sanjaš prazan kotao *sjutra* ćeš biti gladan


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## el_tigre

ciganka said:


> ok!
> 
> but honestly, did you start to make a difference before or after the war?? or the difference is since ever and just in yugoslavia time existed one language serbocroatioan??


In fact ,even in Yugoslavia existed two norms:*western* and *eastern*.

Western became croatian, and eastern serbian.  Then later some changes were made in Croatian.


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> You want to *Serbians*(Srbijanci)-Serbs from Serbia??
> 
> I read couple of books of  by Branko Ćopić(a Serbian writter from Western Bosnia& Herzegovina, village Hasani , region close to Bihać)
> 
> He uses s*j*utra!
> One quote from _Magareće godine_:


 
Branko Copic was born and raised in Bosnia, therefore, he used ijekavica. He speaks in a way it is spoken in Bosnia, and not in Serbia. He can be ethnic Serb, but he speaks in a way of the place where he was born and raised.


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## natasha2000

I can recommend a comparison: take a look at Forum Rules written in those three languages:

Serbian
Croatian
Bosnian


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## el_tigre

Here is a new group 
I sorted them alphabetically*

Serbian-Croatian*
_____________________
* ć*utati-*š*utiti
*  ć*utanje-*š*utanje
  dejstvo-sjelovanje, učinak
  dejstvovati-djelovati
 du*v*an-du*h*an
 džak-vreća
đubrivo-gnojivo
evakui*s*ati-evakui*r*ati
  kultura(c+)-uljudba
 fabrika-tvornica
 fascikl(c+)-mapa, korice
fašist*a*-fašist
 fotografi*s*ati- fotografi*r*ati
  front*a*-front
  garant*ov*ati-- jamčiti, garant*ir*ati
 go-go*l
 h*emija-*k*emija
*h*arizma-*k*arizma
*h*rizantema-*k*rizantema
  hrišćanstvo-kršćanstvo
 ignori*s*ati-ignori*r*ati
  igrati-plesati
  igranka-ples
  istorija-povijest
  inostranstvo-inozemstvo
  instali*s*ati- instali*r*ati
 interes*ov*ati-interes*ir*ati
  ja*g*nje-janje
  ja*g*njetina-janjetina
 jednačina-jednadžba
 kapetan-satnik_(in army and police)_
  kis*eon*ik-kisik
  koncetri*s*ati se- koncetri*r*ati se,usredotočiti se
 kreč-vapno
  kriti*kov*ati-kriti*zir*ati
   kultivi*s*an-kultivi*r*an, uljuđen
  kuršum-metak
  lanč*e*-lanč*ić*
  lonč*e*-lonč*ić*
 major-bojnik_(in army and police)_
  nacist*a*-  nacist
  nacionalist*a*-nacionalist
 odista-doista
  opravak-*p*opravak
  opraviti-*p*opraviti
  pak*ov*anje-pak*ir*anje
 pak*ov*ati-pak*ir*ati
  pantalone-hlače
  parče-komad
 procenat-postotak
  pasulj-grah
 pirinč-riža
 planet*a*-planet
  poredba-*us*poredba
  poređenje-uspoređivanje
 prijatno-ugodno
 procenat-postotak
 programi*s*ati-programi*r*ati
  prava-prava*c*
 rastvor-otopina
 rastvaranje-otapanje
  so-so*l
*socijalist*a*-socijalist
 sopstveni-vlastiti
 spanać-špinat
  spoljnji-vanjski
 sre*ć*no-sre*t*no
  stepen-stupanj
  stepenovati-stupnjevati
  sto-sto*l
* š*olj*ica-š*al*ica
šovinist*a*-šovonist
  špek(c+)-slanina
 točak-kotač
  ub*i*ca-ub*oji*ca
  ub*i*stvo-ub*oj*stvo
  učestvovati-sudjelovati
  učesništvo-sudioništvo
uslov-uvjet
 uslovno-uvjetno
  uslovljavati-uvjetovati
  vaspitati-odgojiti
  vaspitan-odgojen
  vaspitanje-odgajanje
 verenik-zaručnik
  verenica-zaručnica
  verzija(c+)-inačica
   vo-vo*l
*vod*ion*ik-vodik


----------



## el_tigre

One word:*naučnik*(m.)*/naučnica*(f.)

In serbian it means:*scientist*
In croatian: student on practice(also:  praktikant/praktikantica)
Croatian word for scientist is *znanstvenik*(m.)/*znanstvenica*(f.)


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> Here is a new group
> I sorted them alphabetically
> 
> *Serbian-Croatian*
> _____________________
> *ć*utati-*š*utiti
> *ć*utanje-*š*utanje
> dejstvo-sjelovanje, učinak
> dejstvovati-djelovati (s+)
> du*v*an-du*h*an
> đubrivo-gnojivo
> džak-vreća (s+)
> evakui*s*ati-evakui*r*ati
> kultura(c+)-uljudba
> fabrika-tvornica
> fascikl(c+)-mapa, korice
> fašist*a*-fašist
> fotografi*s*ati- fotografi*r*ati
> front*a*-front this is the same - front
> garant*ov*ati-- jamčiti (s+), garant*ir*ati
> go-go*l*
> hemija-*k*emija
> *harizma*-*k*arizma this is the same - karizma
> *h*rizantema-*k*rizantema
> hrišćanstvo-kršćanstvo
> ignori*s*ati-ignori*r*ati
> igrati-plesati(s+)
> igranka-ples(s+)
> istorija-povijest
> inostranstvo-inozemstvo
> instali*s*ati- instali*r*ati
> interes*ov*ati-interes*ir*ati
> ja*g*nje-janje
> ja*g*njetina-janjetina
> jednačina-jednažba
> kapetan-satnik_(in army and police)_
> kis*eon*ik-kisik
> koncetri*s*ati se, usredsrediti se - koncetri*r*ati se,usredotočiti se
> kreč-vapno
> kriti*kov*ati-kriti*zir*ati
> kultivi*s*an, uljudan -kultivi*r*an, uljuđen
> kuršum-metak(s+) (nowadays, metak is more used than kurshum which is considered archaism or it has very local use)
> lanč*e*-lanč*ić*(s+)
> lonč*e*-lonč*ić *(s+)
> major-bojnik_(in army and police)_
> nacist*a*- nacist
> nacionalist*a*-nacionalist
> odista-doista zaista
> opravak-*p*opravak(s+)
> opraviti-*p*opraviti(s+)
> pak*ov*ati-pak*ir*ati
> pantalone-hlače
> parče-komad(s+)
> procenat-postotak(s+)
> pasulj-grah
> pirinč-riža
> planet*a*-planet
> poredba-*us*poredba
> poređenje, uporedjivanje -uspoređivanje
> prijatno-ugodno(s+)
> procenat-postotak(s+)
> programi*s*ati-programi*r*ati(s+)  (nobody says programisati!!!!)
> prava-prava*c* (???? What do you mean, as a direction?, Serbs say the same - pravac)
> rastvor-otopina
> rastvaranje-otapanje
> so-so*l*
> socijalist*a*-socijalist
> sopstveni-vlastiti (s+)
> spanać-špinat
> spoljnji-vanjski
> sre*ć*no-sre*t*no
> stepen-stupanj (s+)
> stepenovati-stupnjevati
> sto-sto*l*
> š*olj*ica-š*al*ica
> šovinist*a*-šovonist
> špek(c+)-slanina (s+) (Nobody says shpek!!!)
> točak-kotač
> ub*i*ca-ub*oj*ica
> ub*i*stvo-ub*oj*stvo
> učestvovati-sudjelovati
> učesništvo-sudioništvo
> uslov-uvjet
> uslovno-uvjetno
> uslovljavati-uvjetovati
> vaspitati-odgojiti
> vaspitan-odgojen
> vaspitanje-odgajanje
> verenik-zaručnik
> verenica-zaručnica
> verzija(c+)-inačica
> vo-vo*l*
> vod*ion*ik-vodik (What's this? Hydrogen? Serbs say hidrogen)


 
Some changes in your list.


----------



## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> prava-prava*c* (???? What do you mean, as a direction?, Serbs say the same - pravac)


I mean *mathematica*l term prava*c*;
infitively long 
beskonačno duga dužina
in books written by authors from Serbia it's written *prava*



natasha2000 said:


> vod*ion*ik-vodik (What's this? Hydrogen? Serbs say hidrogen)


First chemical element in the periodic system:
symbol:*H* like in H2O


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> I mean *mathematica*l term prava*c*;
> infitively long
> beskonačno duga dužina
> in books written by authors from Serbia it's written *prava*
> 
> 
> First chemical element in the periodic system:
> symbol:*H* like in H2O


 
Ok. PRAVA is ok, then. Also there is another word, DUŽ, but I am not sure if it is the same, I don't know much about mathematics.

H is vodonik.


----------



## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> Ok. PRAVA is ok, then. Also there is another word, DUŽ, but I am not sure if it is the same, I don't know much about mathematics.



duž(croatian:dužina) has a finite length.


----------



## Maja

el_tigre said:


> instali*s*ati- instali*r*ati (S+)


I never heard anyone say instali*s*ati!


----------



## Maja

el_tigre said:


> vaspitati-odgojiti(s+)
> vaspitan-odgojen(s+)


----------



## natasha2000

> vaspitati-odgojiti(s+)
> vaspitan-odgojen(s+)



Are you sure, Maja? Odgojen is very similar to podgojen , and I doubt it would be used in Serbia... I have always heard people say "Kako lepo vaspitano dete!" and never "Kako lepo odgojeno dete!" It sounds too much as "Kako lepo podgojeno dete!"


----------



## Maja

natasha2000 said:


> Are you sure, Maja? Odgojen is very similar to podgojen , and I doubt it would be used in Serbia... I have always heard people say "Kako lepo vaspitano dete!" and never "Kako lepo odgojeno dete!" It sounds too much as "Kako lepo podgojeno dete!"


I'm sure.  I heard "odgoj" many times, as well as "odgojen", and I use it. I  never thought of it as a western variant... It is not on the list of totally  Croatian words like kruh, vlak, razina, kratica... that just feel weird to use. At least  not in my book . 
I am sure dictionaries say different...


----------



## natasha2000

Maja said:


> I'm sure.  I heard "odgoj" many times, as well as "odgojen", and I use it. I never thought of it as a western variant... It is not on the list of totally Croatian words like kruh, vlak, razina, kratica... that just feel weird to use. At least not in my book .
> I am sure dictinaries say different...


 
Well, to me it feels very wierd to use *odgojen*. But then, if I don't use it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.... It's just a matter of personal preferences, I guess.


----------



## Maja

natasha2000 said:


> It's just a matter of personal preferences, I guess.


Probably...


----------



## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*
bašta-vrt
bezbedan-siguran
bezbednost-sigurnost
kiparis-čempres
 klavir(c+)-glasovir
krst-križ
moreuz-tjesnac
obezbediti-osigurati
 obezbeđen-osiguran
odsto-posto
prekrstiti se-prekrižiti se
paroh-župnik
parohija-župa
pozorište-kazalište
profesija(c+)-zanimanje
raskršće-raskrižje
saobraćaj-promet
 saobraćajni-prometni
  saobraćajnica-prometnica
 saobraćati-prometovati
sprat-kat
stomak(c+)-trbuh
sve*št*enik-sve*ć*enik


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*
> bašta-vrt(+s)
> bezbedan-siguran(+s)
> bezbednost-sigurnost(+s)
> kiparis-čempres(+s) (Never heard of kiparis)
> klavir(c+)-glasovir
> krst-križ
> moreuz-tjesnac
> obezbediti-osigurati(+s)
> obezbeđen-osiguran(+s)
> odsto-posto(+s)
> prekrstiti se-prekrižiti se
> paroh-župnik
> parohija-župa
> pozorište-kazalište
> profesija(c+)-zanimanje(+s)
> raskršće-raskrižje
> saobraćaj-promet(+s) (in a sense of circulation of goods, not traffic circulation, ex: promet nekretnina)
> saobraćajni-prometni
> saobraćajnica-prometnica
> saobraćati-prometovati
> sprat-kat
> stomak(c+)-trbuh(+s)
> sve*št*enik-sve*ć*enik


----------



## GoranBcn

Maja said:


> I never heard anyone say instali*s*ati!



Većinom je

ISATI, OVATI na srpskom a IRATI na hrvatskom 

SR: organizovati, evakuisati, interesovati, itd
HR: organizirati, evakuirati, interesirati, itd

ali postoje neki glagoli koji su isti u *obadva* jezika. 

instalirati, analizirati, itd


----------



## natasha2000

Gorane, analogije ponekad dobro posluze, ali mnogo puta vise odmognu nego sto pomognu.
Ako i Maja i ja kazemo da u Srbiji ljudi instaliraju a ne instalishu, onda bi trebalo da nam se veruje.... Ja sam provela u Srbiji 32 godine, a Maja ceo svoj zivot. To nam valjda daje neki kredibilitet...


----------



## GoranBcn

natasha2000 said:


> Gorane, analogije ponekad dobro posluze, ali mnogo puta vise odmognu nego sto pomognu.
> Ako i Maja i ja kazemo da u Srbiji ljudi instaliraju a ne instalishu, onda bi trebalo da nam se veruje.... Ja sam provela u Srbiji 32 godine, a Maja ceo svoj zivot. To nam valjda daje neki kredibilitet...



Pa gdje sam ja rekao da se u Srbiji kaže "instališe"? Ne vidim to nigdje. Rekao sam da postoje glagoli koji su isti u oba jezika: *analizirati* i *instalirati*.


----------



## natasha2000

GoranBcn said:


> Pa gdje sam ja rekao da se u Srbiji kaže "instališe"? Ne vidim to nigdje. Rekao sam da postoje glagoli koji su isti u oba jezika: *analizirati* i *instalirati*.


 
MEA CULPA! 
Tako mi i treba kad ne procitam ljudski sta pise pre nego sto pocnem da pisem odgovor...
Izvinjavam se, stvarno. Brzopletost ce me ubiti jednog dana...


----------



## GoranBcn

natasha2000 said:


> MEA CULPA!
> Tako mi i treba kad ne procitam ljudski sta pise pre nego sto pocnem da pisem odgovor...
> Izvinjavam se, stvarno. Brzopletost ce me ubiti jednog dana...



Nema problema. "Suele pasar".


----------



## GoranBcn

Osim *analizirati* i *instalirati* evo još nekih: *tretirati*, *nervirati*, *iritirati*, itd


----------



## natasha2000

Cini se da na kraju, i nema toliko razlika...

Mozda ne bi bilo lose da malo obradimo zargon. Sigurna sam da ce tu biti mnogo vise razlika nego u standardnom jeziku.


----------



## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*

vaskrsenje-uskrsnuće-resurrection
vas-sav
vazduh-zrak
vazdušni-zračni
direktno(c+)-izravno
direktnost(c+)-izravnost
vakcini*s*ati-vakcini*r*ati;cijepiti
kopče;dugme(c+)-puce,gumb
čas*-sat-hour
časovnik-sat-clock;watch
advokat(c+)-odvjetnik
advokatura-odvjetništvo
advokatski-odvjetnički
armija-vojska
magacin-skladište;spremište
pozorišni-kazališni
pozorište-kazalište
šaraf**(c+)-vijak
šarafciger**(c+)-odvijač

Notes:
*čas is used in croatian but with meaning:moment
**šaraf and šarafciger are used also in continental Croatia
On the coast is used
vijak=vida
odvijač=kacavida


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*
> 
> vaskrsenje-uskrsnuće (+s) -resurrection
> vas-sav(+s) (vas? what do you mean? Do you mean SAV like SAV TAJ NOVAC?, for example?, ALL?, If it is this, VAS is used only in church language. It is archaic word. We use SAV)
> vazduh-zrak
> vazdušni-zračni
> direktno(c+)-izravno
> direktnost(c+)-izravnost
> vakcini*s*ati-vakcini*r*ati;cijepiti
> kopče;dugme(c+)-puce,gumb
> čas*-sat(+s) -hour (Today on the radio you can hear: Tačno je 12 sati i 30 minuta. In serbia we also use čas for moment)
> časovnik-sat(+s)-clock;watch (We say časovnik, but only in verz official occasions. In everzday's speech, nobodz would say "Jesi li navio časovnik?, but Jesi li navio sat?)
> advokat(c+)-odvjetnik
> advokatura-odvjetništvo
> advokatski-odvjetnički
> armija-vojska(+s) (This is VERY used word in Serbian. We saz srpska vojska, not srpska armija. Armija is an atavism of comunism. We had Jugoslovenska Narodna Armija in order to look closer to Rusians and their Red Army (Crvena Armija) (my wild guess, I don't know if this is really true). Today it is called Vojska. Besides, zoung recruits were going all those times to VOJSKA and not to ARMIJA. Ide neko u vojsku, ne u armiju)
> magacin-skladište(+s);spremište
> pozorišni-kazališni
> pozorište-kazalište
> šaraf**(c+)-vijak (Serbian: also: šraf. My granny, who was Croatian from Sarajevo, used to say šaraf, šarafiti. In Serbia we say šraf i _zašrafiti_ as a finished verb, or _šrafiti_ as a continuous verb).
> šarafciger**(c+)-odvijač šrafciger. Without A
> 
> Notes:
> *čas is used in Croatian but with meaning:moment
> **šaraf and šarafciger are used also in continental Croatia
> On the coast is used
> vijak=vida
> odvijač=kacavida


----------



## Yoseep

a couple of extra words I haven't noticed here yet, with translations

*Serbian version - Croatian version  > ENGLISH*

sirče - ocat > vinegar
baraž - doigravanje > ?
put (+c) - cesta > road
lekar - liječnik > doctor
pasulj - grah > beans
supa - juha > soup
keva - majka (+s) > mother
finanSije - finanCije > finances 
oficir - časnik > officer (military)
sekretar(ica) - tajnica > secretary
sočivo - leća  > lens
tender (+c) - natječaj > tender
sAradnja - sUradnja > cooperation
ostrvo - otok > island
sportista - sportaš > sportsman
teniser - tenisač > tennis player
fudbal - nogomet > football
računar - računalo > computer
nedelja - tjedan > week
otadžbina - domovina > homeland
ekser - čavao > pin
kupatilo - kupaonica > bath
banje - toplice > spas

*informal language:*
provaliti - skužiti (shvatiti) > to understand
riba - treba (+s) > woman

Serbs have generally lots of words with french origin and pronunciations while on the other side croats have much more german and italian words. This is of course due to historcal and geographic reasons.  

In both languages (especially in serbian) there is a strong influence and a lot of turkish words because of almost 500 years long Ottoman presence in this region


----------



## Maja

Yoseep said:


> *Serbian version - Croatian version  > ENGLISH*
> 
> sirče - ocat > vinegar
> baraž - doigravanje > ? what is "baraž"?
> put (+c) - cesta > road
> lekar - liječnik > doctor
> pasulj - grah > beans
> supa - juha > soup
> keva - majka (+s) > mother  keva is very colloq. we say majka or mama
> finanSije - finanCije > finances
> oficir - časnik > officer (military)
> sekretar(ica) - tajnica > secretary
> sočivo - leća  > lens
> tender (+c) natečaj /konkurs - natječaj > tender
> sAradnja - sUradnja > cooperation
> ostrvo - otok > island
> sportista - sportaš > sportsman
> teniser - tenisač > tennis player
> fudbal - nogomet > football
> računar - računalo > computer
> nedelja/ sedmica - tjedan > week
> otadžbina - domovina (S+) > homeland
> ekser - čavao (S+) > pin nail
> kupatilo - kupaonica > bath
> banje - toplice (S+)  > spas
> I think that banja (sanatorium / resort / spa) has broader meaning then toplice (thermal / hot springs).  Don't you also say "banjsko lječilište"?
> 
> *informal language:*
> provaliti - skužiti (shvatiti S+) > to understand
> riba - treba (+s) > woman


----------



## Tolovaj_Mataj

baraž - doigravanje > playoff (?)

sočivo - leća > lens (?)
I always thought sočivo was a sort of vegetable through I didn't know which exactly. I'd say the proper English translation is lentil.


----------



## natasha2000

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> baraž - doigravanje > playoff (?)
> 
> sočivo - leća > lens (?)
> I always thought sočivo was a sort of vegetable through I didn't know which exactly. I'd say the proper English translation is lentil.


 
It is. And it is called sočivo, too... It is prepared in the same way as beans,and it has a similar taste. Here're the pictures, in grain and cooked (It gives better results with a Spanish word - lentejas, than with Serbian or English one)

I want to add something:



> računar - računalo > computer


*Računar* is a Serbian word for computer. But it is not so widely
y used as another one: *kompjuter*.

sirče - ocat > vinegar 
It is sirĆe, not sirČe.


----------



## Yoseep

doigravanja > extra play in a situation when we do not have a winner. It can be translated maybe as a playoff but "playoff" as a term can have also a different meaning

leća > yes, i've checked and you're right. it represents also a kind of meal in both languages

banje > no, croats do not use this word at all, in standard croatian language

treba > i know personally a couple of serbian songs where they use a noun "treba" in that context so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying

računar - kompjuter > of course, there is also a million other direct translations from english in both languages, especially when it's about computer science. I was talking about absolutely correct versions of local words.


----------



## natasha2000

Yoseep said:


> doigravanja > extra play in a situation when we do not have a winner. It can be translated maybe as a playoff but "playoff" as a term can have also a different meaning


Do you mean produžeci? When there is an equal number in the result, then *produžetak* is played. It means thez give some more minutes more to plaz, to see if someone scores, and therefore, wins. I've heard this term many times, but since football is not my most favourite sport D ) mazbe some male representative of Serbia can add something...




> treba > i know personally a couple of serbian songs where they use a noun "treba" in that context so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]





> Please, tell us which ones. I have never heard this word either, so maybe it is used in some other part of Serbia, which can be possible, since both Maja and I come from Belgrade.


----------



## Maja

Yoseep said:


> leća > yes, i've checked and you're right. it represents also a kind of meal in both languages


Do Croats use "leća" as a lens  in "contact lenses", "optic lenses"...? I thought it was only for  food.



Yoseep said:


> banje > no, croats do not use this word at all, in standard croatian language


So do you call every healing resort "toplice"?



Yoseep said:


> treba > i know personally a couple of serbian songs where they use a noun "treba" in that context so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying


The only people in Serbia, as far as I know, that use this term are BiH  refugees. If you heard it in a song, it is not because it is a standard term,  but probably just a "poetic license".


----------



## natasha2000

Maja said:


> The only people in Serbia, as far as I know, that use this term are BiH refugees. If you heard it in a song, it is not because it is a standard term, but probable just a "poetic license".


 
I agree. That is why I asked for the name of groups/singers who use it. On the other hand, they might be Serbs as well, but born and grown in Bosnia, therefore, they speak Bosnian.


----------



## Yoseep

Maja said:


> Do Croats use "leća" as a lens  in "contact lenses", "optic lenses"...? I thought it was only for  food.


no, if you ask somebody on the street what does "leća" mean he will give you "contact lense" as an answer. 


> So do you call every healing resort "toplice"?


exactely


> The only people in Serbia, as far as I know, that use this term are BiH  refugees. If you heard it in a song, it is not because it is a standard term,  but probable just a "poetic license".



true. my fault. bosnian serbs use it. although i think i've already mentioned it as a stirctly informal term.


----------



## natasha2000

Yoseep said:


> true. my fault. bosnian serbs use it. although i think i've already mentioned it as a stirctly informal term.


 
Never mind . 
I would like to point out one thing, that I have already mentioned. Here we speak about differences between Serbian and Croatian language, not between Croats and Serbs as two nations. A Serb born and raised in for example, Sarajevo, would speak exactly the same as A Croat or Muslim. This has nothing to do with their nationality, but with the place they are born and raised. My mother is Croat, born in Sarajevo, but raised in Serbia. She speaks like all Serbians, she does not speak like Bosnian or Croat, neaning, she says hleb, and not kruh, voz and not vlak, etc., as well as she speaks "ekavica". Therefore, words you heard from Serbs from Bosnia maybe are not all words necessarily  used in Serbia. Serbian is supposed to be the language spoken in Serbia, isn't it?


----------



## Yoseep

There are also some differences in geo-political terminology.

e.g. the names of the countries and cities

*Croatian - Serbian > English*
Atena - Atina > Athens
EUropa - EVropa > Europe
NJemačka - Nemačka > Germany
Španjolska - Španija > Spain
Nizozemska (+s) - Holandija > Netherlands (Holland)
Armenija - Jermenija > Armenia 
Židovi - Jevreji > Jews
Cipar - Kipar  > Cyprus
Talijani - Italijani > Italians
JugoslAven - JugoslOven > yougoslavian
Slaveni - Sloveni > Slavs
Slovenski - Slovenački > Slovenian
Švicarska - Švajcarska > Switzerland
etc...


----------



## Yoseep

natasha2000 said:


> Never mind .
> Therefore, words you heard from Serbs from Bosnia maybe are not all words necessarily  used in Serbia.



If I'd do that or think sth like that it would be more than stupid from my side. I've never even mentioned something like this. Bosnia is indeed a special case. Therefore I think I made clear that it was a misunderstanding.


----------



## natasha2000

Yoseep said:


> If I'd do that or think sth like that it would be more than stupid from my side. I've never even mentioned something like this. Bosnia is indeed a special case. Therefore I think I made clear that it was a misunderstanding.


 
I was not refering directly to you, but in general.

another difference in georgaphical terminology:

Croatian: BarCelona
Serbian: BarSelona


----------



## Athaulf

The area where the differences between Croatian and Serbian are the greatest is probably the scientific terminology, especially in the natural sciences. In foreign borrowings, one can discern some general patterns -- for example, Croatian usually drops the suffixes -us and -um for nouns borrowed from Latin, whereas Serbian doesn't; many Latin verbs take the suffix -irati in Croatia, but -isati or -ovati in Serbian. Croatians also tend to invent words from Slavic roots in cases where Serbs use straightforward borrowings. There are also many more lexical differences that don't follow any of these patters, as you'll easily discover if you compare any Croatian science textbook with an analogous Serbian one.

Unlike the everyday speech in Serbian and Croatian, the differences in scientific terminology are really so great that people educated after the breakup of Yugoslavia are likely to have real difficulties using the scientific and technical literature published on the other side. This is however becoming increasingly irrelevant, since science and technology are nowadays progressing at breakneck speed, with most of the progress being published in English. Consequently, other languages, especially the smaller ones like Serbian and Croatian, can't even keep up with the scientific and technical terminology any more. I probably wouldn't be able to translate my Master's thesis into Croatian without inventing or borrowing a bunch of new words.


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## el_tigre

anyway,  is today in serbia used word for police: *milicija* or *policija*??
I know that in russian is :*milicija 
*


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## natasha2000

Milicija is a term from socialism, and it was officialy used in all ex-Yugoslavia while we were all together. 
Nowadays, the police is called by its real name - policija.


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## el_tigre

Strange!!

* Milicija* is used even in russian.
But it comes from latin language (*militia*=army=vojska).

* Policija* ,anyway comes from  greek (*politeia* =state,country=država)

However on the west is accepted greek not latin form:

polizia(IT)
police(FR; EN)
policia(ESP)
polizei (DE)


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## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*

patrola(c+)-ophodnja
komitet-odbor, povjerenstvo
sekretarijat-tajništvo
ideja(c+) -zamisao
deklaracija(c+) -izjašnjenje
deklari*s*ano-deklari*r*ano, izjašnjeno
deklari*s*ati- deklari*r*ati, izjasniti
gvožđe-željezo
gvozdeno-željezno
inspiracija-nadahnuće
inspiri*s*an-nadahnut ; inspiri*r*an
talent(c+)-dar
talentiran(c+)-nadaren


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## el_tigre

there is also one rule  that makes difference:

In some male nouns serbian words end with *-lac* or *-oc*
Instead of them in croatian is *-telj

Serbian- Croatian

*rukovodilac, rukovodi*oc*-rukovodi*telj*
prevodil*ac*, prevodi*oc*-prevodi*telj*
poznava*lac*, poznava*oc*-poznava*telj
*ima*lac, *ima*oc-*ima*telj
*


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*
> 
> patrola(c+)-ophodnja
> komitet-odbor (+s) povjerenstvo
> sekretarijat-tajništvo
> ideja(c+) -zamisao(+s)
> deklaracija(c+) -izjašnjenje(+s)
> deklari*s*ano-deklari*r*ano, izjašnjeno(+s)
> deklari*s*ati- deklari*r*ati, izjasniti
> gvožđe-željezo
> gvozdeno-željezno
> inspiracija-nadahnuće(+s)
> inspiri*s*an-nadahnut(+s); inspiri*r*an
> talent(c+)-dar(+s)
> talentiran(c+)-nadaren(+s)


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## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> there is also one rule that makes difference:
> 
> In some male nouns serbian words end with *-lac* or *-oc*
> Instead of them in croatian is *-telj*
> 
> *Serbian- Croatian*
> 
> rukovodilac, rukovodi*oc*-rukovodi*telj*
> prevodil*ac*, prevodi*oc*-prevodi*telj*
> poznava*lac*, poznava*oc*-poznava*telj*
> ima*lac, *ima*oc**-*ima*telj*


 
Nouns with -OC are not correct Serbian. It is a common mistake, however, of low educated people. 
In all those examples, the correct grammar in Serbian language is -LAC.


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## panjabigator

natasha2000 said:


> Never mind .
> I would like to point out one thing, that I have already mentioned. Here we speak about differences between Serbian and Croatian language, not between Croats and Serbs as two nations. A Serb born and raised in for example, Sarajevo, would speak exactly the same as A Croat or Muslim. This has nothing to do with their nationality, but with the place they are born and raised. My mother is Croat, born in Sarajevo, but raised in Serbia. She speaks like all Serbians, she does not speak like Bosnian or Croat, neaning, she says hleb, and not kruh, voz and not vlak, etc., as well as she speaks "ekavica". Therefore, words you heard from Serbs from Bosnia maybe are not all words necessarily used in Serbia. Serbian is supposed to be the language spoken in Serbia, isn't it?



So did your mothers parents modify there speech to speak as Serbians and not Croats?  Or does your mom do any code switching to speak as a Croat with her parents and as a Serb with you guys?

Would it be like saying that a Cuban born and raised in Sevilla would speak with an Andulisian accent instead of a Cuban accent (with a few different words or structures)?


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## panjabigator

Athaulf said:


> The area where the differences between Croatian and Serbian are the greatest is probably the scientific terminology, especially in the natural sciences. In foreign borrowings, one can discern some general patterns -- for example, Croatian usually drops the suffixes -us and -um for nouns borrowed from Latin, whereas Serbian doesn't; many Latin verbs take the suffix -irati in Croatia, but -isati or -ovati in Serbian. Croatians also tend to invent words from Slavic roots in cases where Serbs use straightforward borrowings. There are also many more lexical differences that don't follow any of these patters, as you'll easily discover if you compare any Croatian science textbook with an analogous Serbian one.
> 
> Unlike the everyday speech in Serbian and Croatian, the differences in scientific terminology are really so great that people educated after the breakup of Yugoslavia are likely to have real difficulties using the scientific and technical literature published on the other side. This is however becoming increasingly irrelevant, since science and technology are nowadays progressing at breakneck speed, with most of the progress being published in English. Consequently, other languages, especially the smaller ones like Serbian and Croatian, can't even keep up with the scientific and technical terminology any more. I probably wouldn't be able to translate my Master's thesis into Croatian without inventing or borrowing a bunch of new words.



So how was vocabulary created during Yugosilavia?  And how was it decided that Croatian would invent vocabulary in this fashion?  Was it to help create a seperate independent linguistic identity?


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## natasha2000

panjabigator said:


> So did your mothers parents modify there speech to speak as Serbians and not Croats? Or does your mom do any code switching to speak as a Croat with her parents and as a Serb with you guys?


 
My mother, since she passed to Serbia when she was very young (3year-old), spoke and still speaks Serbian. No code switching, ever, since she has never spend more than 5 days in Bosnia (if we except those three years since she was born until she went to Serbia), so she couldn't simply learn Bosnian way of speaking.

My Granny continued to speak until her last day as a Bosnian. My Grandpa died while my Granny was still pregnant with my mother and that is why my Granny remarried some times later.




> Would it be like saying that a Cuban born and raised in Sevilla would speak with an Andulisian accent instead of a Cuban accent (with a few different words or structures


Correct. Providing that this little Cuban has only a very limited number of persons who speak with Cuban accent. The thing with Cubans or any other Latin Americans who come to Spain is that they normally spend the most of their time in a company of other countrymen, so they learn the accent from them. If a Cuban/Argentinian/Mexican child were born in Spain in a Spanish family and had exclusively Spanish friends, he would speak with a clear Spanish and not Cuban/Argentinian/Mexican accent. This is what happened to my mother. The only person who spoke with Bosnian accent was her mother. Nobody else. Her friends, her step-father, everyone, were Serbians, speaking with a Serbian accent.


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## natasha2000

panjabigator said:


> So how was vocabulary created during Yugosilavia? And how was it decided that Croatian would invent vocabulary in this fashion? Was it to help create a seperate independent linguistic identity?


 
It was not created. It already existed. Imagine that Latin American countries unite in one country. This is what happened with the creation of Yugoslavia. Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia had their own ways of speaking, just as all Latin American countries, from Mexico to Argentina, have theirs. 

The odd thing is that many words used in Croatian are also old Serbian words, but from some strange reason, Serbian language accepted a foreign word, forgetting the old genuine Serbian word, which stayed in use only in Croatian, and nowadays, many people think that this word is Croatian word, when it really isn't. For example, štednjak is a word used by Croatians, and Serbians use the word šporet. But štednjak is an old Serbian word, completely forgotten and out of use today in Serbia. Instead of it, we use the foreign word šporet (don't ask me which language it comes from, I don't know, but I suspect it can be German). Another good example of this are the names of months. Croatian kept the original Slav names (that were also used in Serbian but very very long time ago), while Serbian took the names that are used in most of other languages. Someone at the beginning of this thread named them all.

PS: Here it is. I found it. It was Chung in the post Nº3.


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## panjabigator

So could you easily have a conversation in Serbian with a Croat and be ok?


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## natasha2000

panjabigator said:


> So could you easily have a conversation in Serbian with a Croat and be ok?


Of course! I do it every day! I hve here friends from Croatia and from Bosnia, and we do it just fine.

We are talking here about the same language!!!!  (Although I know there are some who would not agree with me, but we all agree it is rather political than linguistical question).


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## panjabigator

Same with Slovenian too? What was the national language of yugoslavia?  Was there one version that everyone had to learn?


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## natasha2000

panjabigator said:


> Same with Slovenian too? What was the national language of yugoslavia? Was there one version that everyone had to learn?


No. Slovenian and Macedonian are two different languages, apart from being different from Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian. This language was earlier called Serbo-Croatian, and now it has different name according to the country where it is spoken.

But I think we are going here a little bit too off topic, Panja...


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## panjabigator

Gotcha!  Thanks for the information.  Sorry for offtopicness mods!


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## Athaulf

panjabigator said:


> So how was vocabulary created during Yugosilavia?  And how was it decided that Croatian would invent vocabulary in this fashion?  Was it to help create a seperate independent linguistic identity?



Most of the scientific vocabulary in Croatian and Serbian was created in the 19th century, before Yugoslavia came into being. In both incarnations of Yugoslavia, academic institutions in both Serbia and Croatia had substantial autonomy in the matters of language, and were allowed to carry on their scholarly and educational work using their specific traditional terminologies, even to the point of introducing separate new words for scientific and technological novelties according to their traditional preferred rules. This was a process that went on mostly spontaneously; the government simply never forced the unification of those already existing separate standards.


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## Athaulf

natasha2000 said:


> Instead of it ["štednjak"], we use the foreign word šporet (don't ask me which language it comes from, I don't know, but I suspect it can be German).



It comes from German "Sparherd," which literally means a "saving stove" (probably in the sense of saving fuel). "Štednjak" is obviously a calque of this term in both Croatian and Serbian.

Also, "šporet" is heavily used in everyday speech in many (most?) parts of Croatia; "štednjak" sounds like a word used mostly in writing and formal speech.


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## Athaulf

panjabigator said:


> So could you easily have a conversation in Serbian with a Croat and be ok?



If the speakers use the standard Serbian and Croatian, there shouldn't be any problems. The phonology of both languages is almost identical, so that the speech of each side will sound perfectly clear to the other (though they'll immediately recognize the difference in accent). The differences in grammar are not large enough to have any noticeable effect on understanding. The differences in terminology will be noticeable -- in everyday speech, perhaps a word per sentence or so -- but virtually everyone will be familiar with most of the terminology used on the other side. Even if that weren't the case, one could easily get around any problem with a little explaining. 

This of course assumes best intentions on the part of both sides.


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## natasha2000

Athaulf said:


> Also, "šporet" is heavily used in everyday speech in many (most?) parts of Croatia; "štednjak" sounds like a word used mostly in writing and formal speech.


This is very interesting, Athaulf...
I always thought that this ans many similar ones are used in Croatia. But recently, I was told from many different sides and all Croats, that many words we would assume Croats use are not practically used in everydays life but only in  TV. For example, most of young Croats fly with AVION and not VAZDUHOPLOV, they may study EKONOMIJA and not GOSPODARSTVO and such... So, I can add one more word to this group - ŠPORET.


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## Athaulf

natasha2000 said:


> This is very interesting, Athaulf...
> I always thought that this ans many similar ones are used in Croatia. But recently, I was told from many different sides and all Croats, that many words we would assume Croats use are not practically used in everydays life but only in  TV. For example, most of young Croats fly with AVION and not VAZDUHOPLOV, they may study EKONOMIJA and not GOSPODARSTVO and such... So, I can add one more word to this group - ŠPORET.



You probably mean "zrakoplov" -- "vazduhoplov" is a word as Serbian as they get.   But yes, in informal contexts, I don't remember ever hearing anything other than "avion." 

Many words identical to their standard Serbian counterparts are heavily used in informal speech in large parts of Croatia, with the standard Croatian word being used in writing and formal speech exclusively. This is very frequent for the names of household devices ("šporet"/"štednjak", "veš-mašina"/"perilica", "pegla"/"glačalo", "frižider"/"hladnjak"...).

Such words, however, sometimes have several different informal synonyms, each of which is predominantly used in a particular region of Croatia. For example, in Croatia, the formal word for "tomato" -- "rajčica" -- is almost never used in informal speech. Most of the country uses "paradajz," which is identical to the standard Serbian word. In some coastal regions of Croatia, however, people normally use the (also informal) Italian word "pomidor." 

The reason for this variety is the fact that the dialects of northern Croatia shared the influx of German and Turkish words with Serbian, whereas the southern parts were primarily exposed to the influence of Italian. Many subsequently invented formal Croatian words never caught on in everyday usage.


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## !netko!

I'd have to disagree with natasha and Athaulf here, at least partially. I think that which words a Croat uses you use depends on which part of the country they were born in, abd of course, when they were born. For example, I always say "štednjak". Always. And it's got nothing at all to do with ideology or whatever. It's just the name of that object for me. As for tomato, I use either "paradajz" or "rajčica", and sometimes even "pomidor". Whichever comes to my mind first. I say "mašina" (as in "veš-mašina" for a washing machine and "perilica" for a dishwasher. 
For some reason, I never use "hladnjak" or "galačalo". Only when writing, these come naturally.
And of course, airplane is "avion", and in writing I'll also call it "avion".

Natasha, I saw you mention the word "gospodarstvo" several times nas a new word, created post-Yu. It's not. It's as normal as ,say, "stolica", "kuća" or "mačka". Before your comments I didn't even know it wasn't used in Serbian. You say Croats study "ekonomija", not "gospodarstvo". That's true, but if it had been decided to call the subject "gospodarstvo", it would be called that in everyday life and come every bit as naturally as "ekonomija".  For example, almost no Croat I know would use "ekonomija" in this context: "The country's economy is weakening." We'd say: "Gospodarstvo zemlje slabi." And, I'm not talking just about my generation onwards, I'm talking about my parents, my grandparents...

That reminds me of the "zemljopis-geografija" difference. In elementary school it's called "zemljopis". High school and onwards it's "geografija". That's just creating confusion. I ended up calling it "zemljopis" to this day, due to power of habit. There were actually tiresome debates over these words in education some months ago. I don't know what they ended up deciding, though.


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## natasha2000

I think yo should reread al our posts, dear netko.
I never said gospodarstvo is a new croatian word. and for sure bot h athaulf and i never said that any of diferences in croatian language (like whre is it said stednjak or sporet) is a political question. This thread was until now without any political colors, it was beautiful and so warm, it was so nice to learn from each other, and you ruined it by introducing the political factor.
Svaka ti cast.


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## Athaulf

!netko! said:


> I'd have to disagree with natasha and Athaulf here, at least partially. I think that which words a Croat uses you use depends on which part of the country they were born in, abd of course, when they were born.[...]



And I emphasized this fact in my posts above quite clearly, so I don't see what the disagreement is about. I didn't write that any of my claims hold for the common spoken language of _every _region in Croatia. Indeed, one would be hard pressed to find _any_ claim that would be true for all regional variants of vernacular Croatian.


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## !netko!

I don't think you understood me well at all, *natasha*. Actually I'm sure you misunderstood me completely. My post wasn't politically colored at all and I wasn't accusing anyone of politically colored posts either, and I think it's sad that you understood it as such, natasha. I was simply trying to say that some words many people think are used only in formal speech are indeed used in everyday speech as well by some. You don't even know my position about the "one language-two languages debate" so where do you get the right to interpret my post as political. In case you're intersted, I think it's all one language. So what political stance do you think I hold now? You're trying to turn my post into something it's not. This thread was nice and without political colours before you made your last comment, natasha, so svaka čast tebi. 

And, concerning "gospodarstvo", in another topic you put it in the same basket with words resembling the infamous "pantalodržač". That's why I commented on that word, and I wasn't scolding you for that, just trying to explain it doesn't belong in that basket. No scolding, whatsoever. I don't know why you seem to want to pick a fight. Trust me, nothing political in my post. I've always enjoyed discussing linguistics stuff with you, and I hope you'll realize you're overboard here. If you were by any case thinking of my saying that there's nothing political about saying, e.g. "štednjak", that comment wasn't aimed at you, or anyone posting here. It's just a general comment concerning idiots who actually use, for example, "zrakoplov" instead of "avion" just to differentiate the language from Serbian. Couldn't you just ask me what I meant if you were confused by my post? Your comment makes me feel misunderstood and saddened. Can't you see a post on linguistic usage at face value, without ascribing it some political agenda?

*Athaulf*:
I know you emphasized regional differences. That's not what I was talking about. I think I actually didn't articulate that very well, but read on and you'll see that I'm referring to the usage of words like "štednjak", "hladnjak" etc. You said these were only used in formal speech, and I *partially* disagreed with *that, *cause some use some of these words in informal, everyday speech also...

ETA: I just remembered, some people in Croatia also use "šparhet" as well as "šporet" and "štednjak". Just wondering is it the same in Serbian?


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## Athaulf

!netko! said:


> I know you emphasized regional differences. That's not what I was talking about. I think I actually didn't articulate that very well, but read on and you'll see that I'm referring to the usage of words like "štednjak", "hladnjak" etc. You said these were only used in formal speech, and I *partially* disagreed with *that, *cause some use some of these words in informal, everyday speech also...



True, I was overgeneralizing when I wrote that all these terms are used in formal contexts exclusively. Some of them are occasionally used in everyday speech, and their usage might be actually increasing in recent years (I have no data on this except personal experience). 

Still, I have yet to hear anyone pronouncing the word "glačalo" in real life. 



> ETA: I just remembered, some people in Croatia also use "šparhet" as well as "šporet" and "štednjak". Just wondering is it the same in Serbian?


A grossly unscientific experiment with Google indicates that "šparhet" probably came into the dialects of Northern Croatia from German through Hungarian. Because if you search for "sparhet," you apparently get only Croatian and Hungarian sites. And the first Hungarian one that pops up is someone's ad trying to sell for 50 Euros a stove that looks like it was damaged during the Russian invasion in 1956.  

Thus, I think that "šparhet" in used in Serbia only by the Hungarians in Vojvodina, although I might be wrong.


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## Athaulf

!netko! said:


> You say Croats study "ekonomija", not "gospodarstvo". That's true, but if it had been decided to call the subject "gospodarstvo", it would be called that in everyday life and come every bit as naturally as "ekonomija".  For example, almost no Croat I know would use "ekonomija" in this context: "The country's economy is weakening." We'd say: "Gospodarstvo zemlje slabi."



As a remark outside the context in which you mentioned this, I personally dislike the word "gospodarstvo" for purely technical reasons. 

The problem is that even without it, Croatian lacks precise separate terms for "economics" and "economy" -- the word "ekonomija" is used for both. "Gospodarstvo" further adds to this imprecision, because in some contexts, it can additionally mean "estate" or (more rarely) "estate/business management." Thus "gospodarstvenik" doesn't mean "economist" but rather something like "businessman" -- you still have to say "ekonomist" for someone whose job is to study "gospodarstvo." 

Overall, the term is making additional mess rather than adding precision and clarity to the language.


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## natasha2000

Dear netko,

What I said in some other post, does not have the place here, not unless you quote me. I never said in this thread such a thing, and also in that other thread, someone corrected me and I accepted, so I really don't see why dragging this subjet over and over again. i was wrong, I was corrected andI accepted. Period. Or I have to live with the eternal giuilt?
You put political colors in this thread because you took out this subject about new Croatian words. Not I. And if you disagreed with me and Athaulf, why didn't you just say the part you disagree, without judging our opinions, or even bringing out here something that in this thread was not even mentioned?

And I don't know from which part of Croatia you are, but I spoke with people from Zagreb, and that is why I wrote about avion and about studying gospodarstvo. I was just saying what I was told by Croatians. That's all.


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## !netko!

Dear *natasha*, 

why do you feel judged? Honestly, I wasn't trying to judge anyone. Guilt? Why would you feel guilty about that in the first place? I really can't understand. Also, I can't remember you being corrected on the other thread. It might have even been me who corrected you, I can't remember. If it was, sorry, it slipped my mind. 

You say I took out the subject of "new" Croatian words. Surely, this subject has its place in athread about differences. Even if we discussed the political intentions behind some of them in a friendly way (the only way possible, since we seem to agree on that subject), that wouldn't be politically colored. It would just be mentioning and reflecting on a situation that, among others, has its effect on the differences between Croatian and Serbian. 

Besides, on the "avion" business, natasha, I agreed with you completely.
And I did say what part I "disagreed" about. Just read my post. 
I have no doubt that you were just saying what you were told by Croatians. When I say many think none of these words are used informally, I don't differentiate between Serbs or Croats or anybody else. If you were Croatian, my post would look the same. 

This all seems like a big misunderstanding to me. Trust me, nothing was meant in even remotely a political way. I really hope this clears things up. And also, I think now we're getting off topic.

*Athaulf:*
Thanks for looking up "šparhet". For some reason I was really curious abou that.
And I completely agree with what you said about "glačalo". I think pretty much the same is true about "hladnjak"...

About "gospodarstvo", I've never thought of it that way. But I see what you mean. It really does seem confusing. So I looked it up in a Croatian-English dictionary. Then it got more confusing. 
According to Željko Bujas, "ekonomija" means: (privreda, gospodarstvo)economy, (dobro)farm, (štednja)economy--ekonomičnost, (znanost)economy.
" Gospodarstvo" means management, economy, husbandry, (privreda)economy, (gazdinstvo) holding, farm, (imanje, posjed) estate farm.
And then there's "ekonomika": (privreda)economy, (grana znanosti)-(applied) economics. 

Confusing... I always thought "gospodarstvo" was farm and economy and "ekonomija" was economics (that's how most people use these words). In which case "gospodarstvo" would even simplify things. But this really is confusing.


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## natasha2000

Dear netko,
I agree with you. 


> If you were Croatian, my post would look the same.


Thank you very much for this one. I really appreciate it.

Maybe I was just too touchy (or too tired, it was 2 AM) at the moment I read your post. Lets burry the "hatches" and smoke a pipe of peace ...

PS: I never heard the word "šparhet". My granny was from Banat, and she never said šparhet. Which parts of Vojvodina do you think this word is used?


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## !netko!

natasha, I'm really glad everything's cleared up now. That means a lot to me.


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## Yoseep

I wouldn't agree with netko when he (or she)  says that nobody uses zrakoplov or zračna luka in everyday's language... because if you say to your friend "Kupio sam si kartu u zračnoj luci" nobody will laugh at you or find it unusual... 

me for example, I'll never say pasoš instead of putovnica, ambasador instead of veleposlanik or sekretarica instead of tajnica...

that's maybe because I wasn't raised and educated during the existence of Yugoslavia, but it surely ain't because I have some intentions to be different from somebody else. 

Some may think that some of these words are recently invented but there are a lot of croatian words that were suppressed during the communism and that is a pure fact. 

As far as word "gospodarstvo" is concerned it think the synonym would  be privreda rather than ekonomija since gospodarstvo has a broader meaning.


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## natasha2000

Yoseep said:


> Some may think that some of these words are recently invented but there are a lot of croatian words that were suppressed during the communism and that is a pure fact.


 
During a socialistic part of our mutual history in a mutual state, there were many words, both Croatian and Serbian supressed. The same old song that you are singing now I hear on a daily basis from some Serbian linguistic puritans, mowning constantly how Serbian language was plagued by Croatian words.
I think it is fair to think that in an attempt to make our two dialect closer, the lingustic authorities of those times tried to standardize what was then called serbo-croatian language, taking away form both sides their own words and putting to boths sides words from the other side. So, please, don't presume that only Croatian language was mistreated during titoism. We "suffered", too, you know .

Oh, and yes.. A neighbour of mine, A Croat from Zagreb, married to Serbia, who died some years ago in her late sixties, used all of those words you mention. So don't worry, if I wever have chance to talk to you, I will understand you.

To Netko:
Me, too.


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## Maja

Well, I think that "gospodarstvo" is similar to "gazdinstvo" in Serbian. But in  Serbian, it only means farm. 

This is what Benson's dictionary says  (mind, it is SH-English and vice-versa):

*economy* n
1. privreda,  ekonomika; ekonomija; political ~ politička ekonomija; a planned (war) ~  dirigovana (ratna) privreda
2. ekonomičnost, štednja; (as a): an ~ measure  mera (mjera) štednje

*gospodarstvo*
1. management,  supervision
2. farm, estate

*gazdinstvo*
farm; individualno ~  individual farm; šumsko ~ lumber camp​


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## Athaulf

!netko! said:


> About "gospodarstvo", I've never thought of it that way. But I see what you mean. It really does seem confusing. So I looked it up in a Croatian-English dictionary. Then it got more confusing.
> According to Željko Bujas, "ekonomija" means: (privreda, gospodarstvo)economy, (dobro)farm, (štednja)economy--ekonomičnost, (znanost)economy.
> " Gospodarstvo" means management, economy, husbandry, (privreda)economy, (gazdinstvo) holding, farm, (imanje, posjed) estate farm.
> And then there's "ekonomika": (privreda)economy, (grana znanosti)-(applied) economics.
> 
> Confusing... I always thought "gospodarstvo" was farm and economy and "ekonomija" was economics (that's how most people use these words). In which case "gospodarstvo" would even simplify things. But this really is confusing.



Oh yes, and I forgot to mention "privreda" and "ekonomika," which add even more confusion to the whole mess. 

"Privreda" means pretty much the same as "economy" in English, but its use has largely fallen out of favor since the breakup of Yugoslavia. People will still understand what it means, but it sounds somewhat like a piece of old socialist terminology. I've never really understood what "ekonomika" is supposed to mean -- I saw the term used in practice only as the title of a university course I took in Zagreb, which was essentially an introduction to microeconomics.

Overall, a pretty bad mess.


----------



## Athaulf

natasha2000 said:


> Dear netko,
> I never heard the word "šparhet". My granny was from Banat, and she never said šparhet. Which parts of Vojvodina do you think this word is used?



I mean it's probably used by Vojvodina Hungarians when they speak Hungarian. Because in Hungary, the term is used heavily, at least judging by their online ads.


----------



## natasha2000

Athaulf said:


> I mean it's probably used by Vojvodina Hungarians *when they speak Hungarian*. Because in Hungary, the term is used heavily, at least judging by their online ads.


 
OK...
But then, it doesn't have much to do with Serbian spoken in Vojvodina, does it?


----------



## el_tigre

in coastal regions word for _štednjak_ is *špaher*.
Don't ask where it comes from!


----------



## Tolovaj_Mataj

el_tigre said:


> in coastal regions word for _štednjak_ is *špaher*.
> Don't ask where it comes from!


All of them came from German "der Sparherd". 
In Slovene we had a lot of germanisms, which were sistematically erased from the vocabulary of educated people after the WWI. In some dialects of Gorenjska and Štajerska there still can be found šporhet, šporget and so.


----------



## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*​ pegla(c+)-glačalo​ peglati(c+)-glačati​ sudija-sudac​ kuverta(c+)-omotnica​ fotelja(c+)-naslonjač​ detalj(c+)-pojedinost​ detaljno(c+)-podrobno​ fasada(c+)-žbuka​ fasadirati(c+)-žbukati​ mastilo-tinta​ protest*ov*ati-prosvjedovati; protest*ir*ati; ​ štampa-tisak​ štampan-tiskan​ štamparski-tiskarski​ konferencija za štampu-konferencija za tisak; tiskovna konferencija ​ berberin-brijač​ sujeverje-praznovjerje​ sujeverno-praznovjerno​ kaluđer-redovnik​ kaluđerica-redovnica​ namještaj(c+)-pokućstvo​ domaćica(c+)-kućanica-housewife​ original(c+)-izvornik​ originalan(c+)-izvoran​ sagorijevanje-izgaranje​ volumen(c+)-obujam;zapremina​ perika(c+)-vlasulja​ obim-opseg​ obimno-opsežno​ 
​​


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


>





el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*​
> 
> pegla(c+)-glačalo
> 
> 
> peglati(c+)-glačati
> 
> 
> sudija-sudac
> 
> 
> kuverta(c+)-omotnica [(+S)also and more used: koverta]
> 
> 
> fotelja(c+)-naslonjač (in Serbian "naslonjač" is only a part of a chair where you lean your back)
> 
> 
> detalj(c+)-pojedinost(+s)
> 
> 
> detaljno(c+)-podrobno(+s)
> 
> 
> fasada(c+)-žbuka
> 
> 
> fasadirati(c+)-žbukati
> 
> 
> mastilo-tinta
> 
> 
> protest*ov*ati-prosvjedovati; protest*ir*ati;
> 
> 
> štampa-tisak
> 
> 
> štampan-tiskan
> 
> 
> štamparski-tiskarski
> 
> 
> konferencija za štampu-konferencija za tisak; tiskovna konferencija
> 
> 
> berberin-brijač (in Serbian, "brijač" is a tool for shaving)
> 
> 
> sujeverje-praznovjerje(+s)
> 
> 
> sujeverno-praznovjerno(+s)
> 
> 
> kaluđer-redovnik
> 
> 
> kaluđerica-redovnica
> 
> 
> namještaj(c+)-pokućstvo(+s)
> 
> 
> domaćica(c+)-kućanica-housewife
> 
> 
> original(c+)-izvornik(+s)
> 
> 
> originalan(c+)-izvoran(+s)
> 
> 
> sagorijevnje-izgaranje(+s)
> 
> 
> volumen(c+)-obujam;zapremina(+s)
> 
> 
> perika(c+)-vlasulja
> 
> 
> obim-opseg
> 
> 
> obimno-opsežno(+s)
> 
> 
> ​​


​


----------



## mefisto

Hi All!!

I'm new here (It's my 1st comment  ), but I have read this forum for a long time, because I'm interested in slavic languages a lot .Well, I used to live in Vojvodina, and it's true that sparhet is sparhelt (might be comming frm Ger.), I mean stednajk.We often use this word in Hungary too, as *natasha2000* has written .​


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## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*
analizovati-analizirati
branilac-branitelj
milion-milijun
milioner-milijunaš
milionerka-milijunašica
sirće-ocat
kreč-vapno
galaksija(*c+*)-galaktika
prema(*c+*)-spram
naprema(*c+*)-naspram
gledalac-gledatelj
izvšilaca-izvršiteljica
imitirati-oponašati
kritikovati-kritizirati
progonilac-progonitelj
milenij(*c+*)-tisućljeće
vijek/vek-stoljeće
decenij-desetljeće
godišnjica(*c+*)-obljetnica


----------



## GoranBcn

Na srpskom ne kaže se "analizovati". Kao što sam u drugom postu naveo postoje neki glagoli tog tipa koji su isti u oba jezika: analizirati, tretirati, nervirati, itd


----------



## natasha2000

el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*
> analizovati-analizirati (I have never heard analizovati. Serbs also say analizirati)
> branilac-branitelj(+s)
> milion-milijun
> milioner-milijunaš
> milionerka-milijunašica
> sirće-ocat
> kreč-vapno
> galaksija(*c+*)-galaktika
> prema(*c+*)-spram(+s)
> naprema(*c+*)-naspram(+s) (Never heard of naprema)
> gledalac-gledatelj
> izvšilaca(??????)-izvršiteljica(+s) (izvršilaca is genitive of ozvršioci (nom.mn. izvršilac)
> imitirati-oponašati(+s)
> kritikovati-kritizirati
> progonilac-progonitelj(+s)
> milenij(*c+*)-tisućljeće (in Serbian it is milenijum)
> vijek/vek-stoljeće (+s - stoleće)
> decenija-desetljeće
> godišnjica(*c+*)-obljetnica


----------



## el_tigre

GoranBcn said:


> Na srpskom ne kaže se "analizovati". Kao što sam u drugom postu naveo postoje neki glagoli tog tipa koje su isti u oba jezika: analizirati, tretirati, nervirati, itd


Zaboravih!!


----------



## natasha2000

GoranBcn said:


> Na srpskom ne kaže se "analizovati". Kao što sam u drugom postu naveo postoje neki glagoli tog tipa koje su isti u oba jezika: analizirati, tretirati, nervirati, itd


 
hihihihii... Onda bi po el tigrovoj analogiji bilo tretirovati i nervirovati...


----------



## natasha2000

frumos said:


> A dali neko moze da mi objasni sta znaci vojvodjanska rec _begeš ?_ Pretpostvaljam (cak sam i siguran) da je madjarskog porekla...
> Vidoh de je u ovoj temi rec o nekim vojvodjanskim recima pa nisam hteo de otvorim novu...
> Hvala.


 
Здраво и добродошао.  
Препоручила бих ти да отвориш нову тему са питањем, јер твоје питање нема везе са темом ове дискусије. Као што можеш видети у наслову, овде се расправља о разликама између хрватског и српског.


----------



## el_tigre

*Serbian-Croatian*

rezerva(c+)-pričuva
rezervni(c+)-pričuvni
rezervirati(c+)-predbilježiti
rezervacija(c+)-predbilježba


----------



## Maja

el_tigre said:


> *Serbian-Croatian*
> 
> rezerva (c+) - pričuva
> rezervni (c+) - pričuvni
> rezervirati (c+) - predbilježiti rezerviSati (s+)
> rezervacija (c+) - predbilježba


----------



## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> hihihihii... Onda bi po el tigrovoj analogiji bilo tretirovati i nervirovati...



Ne, nego :
tretovati i nervovati  ili
tretisovati i nervisati.

Pretvorba IR u IS ili u OV


----------



## Jela

we understand eachother perfectly...the thing that I have a problem with are the months...i will never remember which one is which, but I thought it would be useful for you to know that the croatians refere to months by numbers when they speak so you won't be having problems with that.
for ex. croatian would say 'u 7. mjesecu sam....' which means that he/she did sth. in july. but if someone from serbia said 'u 7. mesecu sam' it would be a woman and it would mean that she is 7 months pregnant...
hope it helps...
bye


----------



## el_tigre

Serbian-Croatian

biblioteka(c+)-knjižnica
bibliotekarski(c+)-knjižnički, knjižničarski
bibliotekar(c+)-knjižničar
bibliotekarka-knjižničarka
apetit(c+)-tek
hirurg-kirurg
hirurgija-kirurgija
hirurški-kirurški
računar-računalo


----------



## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> It was not created.
> 
> The odd thing is that many words used in Croatian are also old Serbian words, but from some strange reason, Serbian language accepted a foreign word, forgetting the old genuine Serbian word, which stayed in use only in Croatian, and nowadays, many people think that this word is Croatian word, when it really isn't. For example, štednjak is a word used by Croatians, and Serbians use the word šporet. But štednjak is an old Serbian word, completely forgotten and out of use today in Serbia.



The thing is that these words are not (old) _Serbian_ but (old) South *Slavic*.So, Croats did not adopt "old Serbian words" but kept old (South) Slavic ones.


----------



## el_tigre

natasha2000 said:


> This is very interesting, Athaulf...
> I always thought that this ans many similar ones are used in Croatia. But recently, I was told from many different sides and all Croats,


This is getting funny .  
You spoke to *all Croats*???


natasha2000 said:


> that many words we would assume Croats use are not practically used in everydays life but only in  TV. For example, most of young Croats fly with AVION and not VAZDUHOPLOV,
> they may study EKONOMIJA and not GOSPODARSTVO and such... So, I can add one more word to this group - ŠPORET.


Ekonomija is used for social science that is beeing studied at school(s).
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekonomija
Gospodastvo is  used for human activities:
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospodarstvo

So you will hear nobody studying "Gospodarstvo". Please be careful before saying such "discoveries"


----------



## el_tigre

Jela said:


> we understand eachother perfectly...the thing that I have a problem with are the months...i will never remember which one is which,



The thing is that mutualy inteligibility is high but not symmetrical (neither for standard languages):Croats in general do understand Serbs better that Serbs can understand Croats.Croats were much more exposed to Serbian than vice versa.


----------



## xpictianoc

el_tigre said:


> The thing is that these words are not (old) _Serbian_ but (old) South *Slavic*.So, Croats did not adopt "old Serbian words" but kept old (South) Slavic ones.



Slažem se, zapazio sam da ove reči koje se razlikuju između sprskog i hrvatskog u većini ako se radi o hrvatskom su slovenskog porekla.


----------



## el_tigre

Mac_Linguist said:


> None of the stupid jokes like "okolotrbušni pantalonodržač"!



In fact Croatian would be "okolotrbušni *hlače*držač"! 

as in Croatian hlače=pants


----------



## xpictianoc

And we Polish like Croats have many "funny" words like "wodolot" 
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodolot


----------



## el_tigre

xpictianoc said:


> Slažem se, zapazio sam da ove reči koje se razlikuju između sprskog i hrvatskog u većini ako se radi o hrvatskom su slovenskog porekla.


 

Exactly. The differences are mostly those which:
1. existed before , mentioned in older dictionaries but forgotten in the mean time
2. morphological (organizIRati-organizOVati)

The problem is that most Serbs are not aware of them. Elder generations do not recall them and younger have never been exposed to them.So we have opinions that "Croatian " is Serbian with addition of couple Ustaše invented words. attitudes like this one:

Mod edit: No YouTube links allowed

in the 19th century plenty of scientific terminology was taken from other Slavic languages (Russian, Czech etc.)


----------



## el_tigre

xpictianoc said:


> Slažem se, zapazio sam da ove reči koje se razlikuju između sprskog i hrvatskog u većini ako se radi o hrvatskom su slovenskog porekla.



Da. Npr. Vuk Karadžić je u svoj ričnik srpskeg jezika uvrsti i mnoge (štokavske)  riči koje Srbi uopće ne koriste u svakodnevnon govoru. Npr. "kruh", nazive za misece i sl. Te riči su naravno slavenske.
Druge tragične situacije je bilo kod  "hrvatskih vukovaca" koji su brisali riči koje su hrvati koristili nauštrb posuđenica tipa "geografija"


----------



## olovnicovek

Srbi su uglavnom pricali "kruv" sve do dvadesetog veka......zemljopis je bio u opticaju cini mi se do drugog svetskog rata, valjda im je naucnije zvucala rec geografija.

"Da. Npr. Vuk Karadžić je u svoj ričnik srpskeg jezika uvrsti i mnoge (štokavske) riči koje Srbi uopće ne koriste u svakodnevnon govoru"......jel ovo neka krilatica iz Budakovih sabranih dela?


----------



## DenisBiH

olovnicovek said:


> "Da. Npr. Vuk Karadžić je u svoj ričnik srpskeg jezika uvrsti i mnoge (štokavske) riči koje Srbi uopće ne koriste u svakodnevnon govoru"......jel ovo neka krilatica iz Budakovih sabranih dela?




Ma nešto je i meni maglovito u sjećanju da je Vuk tvrdio da su svi štokavci Srbi. Mislim da nema potrebe za ovakvim tonom ovdje, ako želiš osporiti tvrdnju ima i načina da se to uradi bez prizivanja NDH.


----------



## olovnicovek

Da, ali to su pisali i Kopitar i Safrik, gde ces vece autoritete na polju slavistike u to vreme, tako da....

Inace sta o malopre pomenutoj temi kaze Ljudevit Gaj:
„Како да се препиремо што је код Србљах народно, што ли није, код Србљах, у којих од олтара до чобана ништа бити не може што не би народно било: код Србљах, од којих ми језик у својој мудрости и у свом богатству, и обичаје у својој изврсности и својој чистоћи учити морамо ако хоћемо да илирски живот обновимо: код Србљах који су у светињи свога српства онај народни дух и оно родољубство уздржали, који смо и ми у новије доба, ради слоге, под пространим именом илирства новим животом ускрснули: код Србљах, који су нама од старине све сачували, а којим ми мало али сасвим ништа гледе самога народнога дати неможемо?“

..izvinjavam se na cirilici, mrzelo me da trazim na latinici.


----------



## DenisBiH

Ne razumijem šta tačno hoćeš reći. Jel' se ti slažeš s Vukom itd. ili kažeš da je bio u dobrom društvu i da je to bio naučni trend tada?

Otprilike u isto vrijeme neki naši ovdje su bošnjačkim izgleda smatrali sve južnoslavenske jezike.



> Jedanput sam                pitao trgovce koji prohode po svoj Europejskoj Turskoj, da kojim                se jezikom najviše služiti mogu? a oni rekoše: “Kud god pođeš, svuda                možeš govoriti bošnjački.” — Da kako je u Stambolu? rekoh. — “U                Stambolu je, vele, pak sve bošnjački, samo malo osmanlijski i grčki.”                Ali oni toga nikako ne poznaju da tuđe riječi u svoj jezik miješaju,                nego još vele da Osmanlija bošnjačke riječi miješa; a koliko god                Kranjci i Štajerci imaju njemačkih riječi, toliko Bošnjaci, ili                bojim se još više, turskih imaju. Oni kazuju da sva švapska zemlja                bošnjački eglendiše; osim već tamo negdje daleko, gdje ima pravih                Švaba: ali da se je već sve, brajne, po švapskom jeziku pokvarilo,                i zato da oni teško razumiju kad su na sastanku sa Švabami.


Matija Mažuranić, "Pogled u Bosnu", 1839-1840


----------



## olovnicovek

Ma za ovu pricu nije bitno da li se ja slazem sa Vukom ili ne, bitno je da se slazu Safrik i Kopitar 

Uh ja ti navodim sta su na tu temu rekli najveci Slavisti svog doba, a ti mi tu navodis sta rekli tamo neki trgovci po tadasnjoj turskoj carevini, pa sta li je sledece, "jezikoslovlje balkana od esnafa kiridzja", "kratka povest vremena bosanskih curcija ", "njutnov zakon termodinamike kroz prizmu kujundzija" itd )) ...... inace kad smo vec kod trgovaca, koji su u ovom savremenom svetu poznatiji kao "biznismeni", evo bas danas planiram da odem do nekih lokalnih biznismena i turbo bogatasa izniklih iz devedesetih, da mi razjasne neke jezicke nedoumice


----------



## DenisBiH

olovnicovek said:


> Ma za ovu pricu nije bitno da li se ja slazem sa Vukom ili ne, bitno je da se slazu Safrik i Kopitar
> 
> Uh ja ti navodim sta su na tu temu rekli najveci Slavisti svog doba, a ti mi tu navodis sta rekli tamo neki trgovci po tadasnjoj turskoj carevini, pa sta li je sledece, "jezikoslovlje balkana od esnafa kiridzja", "kratka povest vremena bosanskih curcija ", "njutnov zakon termodinamike kroz prizmu kujundzija" itd )) ...... inace kad smo vec kod trgovaca, koji su u ovom savremenom svetu poznatiji kao "biznismeni", evo bas danas planiram da odem do nekih lokalnih biznismena i turbo bogatasa izniklih iz devedesetih, da mi razjasne neke jezicke nedoumice




Not kont? Vuk, Kopitar i Šafarik su bili Božijom mudrošću nadahnuti u svojim umnomislenijima, pa to što oni kažu ima prevagu nad nejtiv spikersima, u obliku trgovačkog esnafa BiH u ovom slučaju? Ako su zbilja zborili kako Vuk, meščini onda da ta titula "najveći slavisti" koju im daješ nije u potpunosti zaslužena, njet-njet.

Inače, nije Safrik nego Šafarik, koliko ja znadem.


----------



## DenisBiH

No 'ajde, treba udrit brigu na veselje. Evo kako su neki drugi naše jezičko i jezikoslovno blago vidjeli tamo 1850-tih. Ima hin u tom članku više nego danas (jezika mislim). 

Imadu...


> - srpski
> - bosanski
> - slavonski
> - dalmatinski


...koji su 4 vrste "ilirskoga". Srpski se pak sam dijeli na


> - hercegovački
> - resavski
> - srijemski


Imade po autorima također i slovenski (vendski), a Hrvati oko Zagreba pričaju jednim dijalektom sličnim njemu. Ima također i hrvatski na jugoistoku koji je varijacija na srpski. Jedan od ova dva hrvatska autori smatraju prijelaznim između srpskog i slovenskog.

Veselo, kaj ne?  A vi mislili samo je nama danas zabavno i samo smo mi poligloti.


p.s. 
Nemam dovoljno povjerenja u svoj njemački da sam ovo prevodim, ako neko želi, bujrum.
p.p.s.
Samo brez ličnijeh napada na moju malenkost, moliću lijepo.


----------



## DenisBiH

Prelijep literarni uradak.

Za potrebe ove teme je ipak zanimljiva jedna knjiga koju tebi nesumnjivo dragi gospodin Šafarik pominje, a pod imenom "Krainisch-Slawische Grammatik" iz 1793. Autor, pod imenom _Blasius (Blaž?) Kumerdey_ veli:



> In der Grammatik, die ich hier ankündige, suche ich diesen Wunsch zu erfüllen, und wähle dabei zum Grunde die Krainerisch- und Windische Mundart, sammt der Literalslawischen Sprache, dann setze ich bei jeder Regel die Russische, Ruthenische, Bulgarische, Serwische,  Bosnische,   Dalmatische,   Raguseische,   Kroatische, Böhmische, Polnische, Lausitzische, Slawakische und Slawonische Mundart bei


Ovaj čovjek, Slovenac pretpostavljam, je koliko shvatam pisao neku vrstu poredbene gramatike slavenskih jezika. Pošto se po tekstu čini da je pored slovenskog (kranjsko-vendskog), stavljao i naše jezike, i pošto navodi, ako ga dobro shvatam, primjere za srpski, bosanski, dalmatinski, dubrovački, hrvatski i slavonski od lokalnih jezika, ova knjižica bi bila vrlo interesantna za izučavanje šta se zapravo smatralo razlikama između ovih jezika krajem 18. stoljeća, dakle prije standardizacije iz sredine 19. stoljeća.


----------



## Orlin

DenisBiH said:


> No 'ajde, treba udrit brigu na veselje. Evo kako su neki drugi naše jezičko i jezikoslovno blago vidjeli tamo 1850-tih. Ima hin u tom članku više nego danas (jezika mislim).
> 
> Imadu...
> ...koji su 4 vrste "ilirskoga". Srpski se pak sam dijeli na
> Imade po autorima također i slovenski (vendski), a Hrvati oko Zagreba pričaju jednim dijalektom sličnim njemu. Ima također i hrvatski na jugoistoku koji je varijacija na srpski. Jedan od ova dva hrvatska autori smatraju prijelaznim između srpskog i slovenskog.
> 
> Veselo, kaj ne?  A vi mislili samo je nama danas zabavno i samo smo mi poligloti.
> 
> 
> p.s.
> Nemam dovoljno povjerenja u svoj njemački da sam ovo prevodim, ako neko želi, bujrum.
> p.p.s.
> Samo brez ličnijeh napada na moju malenkost, moliću lijepo.


Izgleda da se mi u početku 20. veka polako vraćamo ovoj jezičkoj raznovrsnosti na Zapadnom Balkanu, s time da su sada međujezičke razlike najverovatnije manje zbog svesnog zbližavanja tekom 19.-20. veka ali povećavaće se pošto se barem pokušava ponovo nekako udaliti jezike BCS grupe jedan od drugog. Zanima me šta ćemo imati nakon recimo 100 godina.


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## DenisBiH

Bilo je i ambicioznijih zamisli, inače.


Ustav Kraljevine Srba, Hrvata i Slovenaca iz 1921. veli:


> *Члан 3.*​ Службени језик Краљевине је српско-хрватски-словеначки.


Ustav Kraljevine Jugoslavije iz 1931. veli:


> *Члан 3.*​ Службени језик Краљевине је српско-хрватско-словеначки.


Nije mi poznato je li iko pokušao standardizirati taj s-h-s jezik. S obzirom da se tad makedonski smatrao južnim srpskim (u prvoj Jugoslaviji) taj bi standard, da je ovo zaživjelo, bio jedan za čitavo područje Jugoslavije.

Interesantno je ipak to da je, čini se, i prije standardizacije u 19. stoljeću dosta toga zavisilo od perspektive i fokusa. Za one bošnjačke trgovce ispada da je to na slavenskom jugu sve jedan jezik, s eventualno dvije varijante (razumljivom 'osmanskom' i manje razumljivom 'švapskom') dok Slovenac Kumerdej vidi samo u BCS području šest govora/jezika dovoljno prepoznatljivih da ih navodi u rangu sa ruskim, bugarskim, češkim, poljskim itd. Vuk mu tu dođe negdje u sredini, sa štokavskim kao jednim jezikom, a kasniji srpsko-hrvatski je nešto proširenija ideja koja je u to jezičko područje uključila i kajkavske i čakavske govore, historijski također književne hrvatske, te torlačke govore u Srbiji.

Pitam se koliko su zapravo ova ujedinjenja i standardizacije iz 19. stoljeća ujedinile a koliko razjedinile južnoslavensko govorno područje. Pretpostavljam da prije njih granice između slovenskog i hrvatskog, srpskog i makedonskog, srpskog i bugarskog itd. uopće nisu percipirane tako oštro kao danas nakon standardizacija.

Na neki način, 'problem' je bio što je bilo više ujediniteljskih pokreta istovremeno (slovenski, hrvatski, srpski, bugarski) u 19. stoljeću koji su na kraju neke isto toliko razjedinili koliko su druge ujedinili.


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## Orlin

DenisBiH said:


> Pitam se koliko su zapravo ova ujedinjenja i standardizacije iz 19. stoljeća ujedinile a koliko razjedinile južnoslavensko govorno područje. Pretpostavljam da prije njih granice između slovenskog i hrvatskog, srpskog i makedonskog, srpskog i bugarskog itd. uopće nisu percipirane tako oštro kao danas nakon standardizacija.
> 
> Na neki način, 'problem' je bio što je bilo više ujediniteljskih pokreta istovremeno (slovenski, hrvatski, srpski, bugarski) u 19. stoljeću koji su na kraju neke isto toliko razjedinili koliko su druge ujedinili.


Mislim da u stvari svaka jezička standardizacija neizbežno ima za rezultat i ujedinjenje (unutar nekog nacionalnog područja) i razjedinjenje [tvori jasno percipirane, ponekad sasvim veštačke granice između srodnih jezika koji formiraju dijalektalni kontinuum - čini mi se da je takav slučaj s južnoslovnskim jezicima: izgleda da nije imalo takvih "čvrstih" granica među slovenačkim, hrvatskim, bosanskim, srpskim i bugarskim (i bilo kakvim drugim na našem području u zavisnosti od gledišta) pre standardizacije 19.-20. veka].


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## Orlin

DenisBiH said:


> Bilo je i ambicioznijih zamisli, inače.
> 
> 
> Ustav Kraljevine Srba, Hrvata i Slovenaca iz 1921. veli:
> Ustav Kraljevine Jugoslavije iz 1931. veli:
> Nije mi poznato je li iko pokušao standardizirati taj s-h-s jezik. S obzirom da se tad makedonski smatrao južnim srpskim (u prvoj Jugoslaviji) taj bi standard, da je ovo zaživjelo, bio jedan za čitavo područje Jugoslavije.


Nakon toga što sam razmislio, došao sam do ideje da se najverovatnije ne radi o tvorenju takvog "zajedničkog jugoslovenskog jezika" nego da će srp., hrv. i slov. biti službeni jezici pošto se takav s-h-s standard praktički ne može stvoriti (slovenački je jako različit od ostala 2) ili bi u najmanju ruku bio nekakav đuveđ.


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## olovnicovek

Steta sto stvarno govorimo jedan te isti jezik, mislim na nase narode i narodnosti, da stvarno govorimo razlicite, te da se prema tome ne razumemo, mislim da bi smo se mnogo bolje slagali


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