# בן / בר



## Ratfink23T

I believe I have seen both "ben" and "bar" used in the Hebrew Bible for the English word "son".

Is this correct?

What is the difference in ben and bar?

Thanks for your help in advance!

R.F.


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## Shlama_98

Ben is Hebrew, and Bar is Aramaic, the Jews spoke Aramaic at one point in history so Hebrew has some Aramaic influence as we speak.

Also some Jewish books were written in Aramaic such as the book of Daniel and the book of Ezra, I think the Talmud was also written in Aramaic (Babylonian Talmud at least)...


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## Flaminius

Ratfink23T said:


> I believe I have seen both "ben" and "bar" used in the Hebrew Bible for the English word "son".
> 
> Is this correct?



Call me picky (picky, picky, picky _thanks!_) but "son" is not the only meaning of _ben_ and _bar_ in the Hebrew Bible.

As Shlama has said, _ben_ is Hebrew _bar_ Aramaic.  Both can be used to produce idioms.


son of a house - a friend as intimate as family
son of death - someone who deserves to die (Cf. Samuel I: 20-31)
son of Gehinnom - someone who should go to hell
son of a conversation - an interloqutor
son of eating - food good to eat
son of peace - a friendly person


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## Ratfink23T

Thanks very much! I really appreciate your help!


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## Ratfink23T

One more... how about "bar mitzvah"? Is the "bar" Aramaic?

thanks!


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## Shlama_98

Ratfink23T said:


> One more... how about "bar mitzvah"? Is the "bar" Aramaic?
> 
> thanks!



Yes, the Bar is still Aramaic.


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## amikama

Although "ben" and "bar" mean the same, they are NOT interchangeable. You can't say "הבר שלי" for "my son". "Bar" is used only in fixed expressions (such as בר-מצווה) and in Aramaic expressions (בר-סמכא). "Ben" is used in all the other cases.


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## Ratfink23T

So, why is "bar" used here instead of "ben"?  Does the bar mitzvah go back to times when jews were speaking Aramaic?


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