# noblissime (adjectifs superlatifs se terminant en « -issime »)



## john_riemann_soong

I was viewing the French Wikipedia article on the Order of the Garter and I noticed it used "*nobilissime*" as a superlative, ie. *le noblissime ordre de la Jarretière*. I am piqued. I know Latin uses "issimus" as a superlative, or related forms thereof (e.g. _maximus_ is Latin for "the biggest") but I did not know it existed in French (converting the -us to -e), even as archaic forms.

I did note the superlative was put in front of the noun, as opposed to after the noun, as "l'ordre le plus noble" would do instead. Is this just a re-Latinisation? Is this a literary thing, perhaps of Old French/Middle French custom that died out? It makes me highly curious.


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## Qcumber

This type of superlative is rare, but not unknown.

Most native speakers use them tongue-in-cheek, e.g. _Cet excellentissime rapport qui ne nous a rien appris, mais nous a coûté fort cher_.


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## john_riemann_soong

Hmm - so in the rare cases where it's used, it goes in front of the noun?


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## Qcumber

john_riemann_soong said:


> Hmm - so in the rare cases where it's used, it goes in front of the noun?


It could go behind the noun, but whenever I came across such a superlative, it was placed before the noun, probably for emphasis.


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## mplsray

john_riemann_soong said:


> I was viewing the French Wikipedia article on the Order of the Garter and I noticed it used "*nobilissime*" as a superlative, ie. *le nobilissime ordre de la Jarretière*. I am piqued. I know Latin uses "issimus" as a superlative, or related forms thereof (e.g. _maximus_ is Latin for "the biggest") but I did not know it existed in French (converting the -us to -e), even as archaic forms.


 
The Trésor de la langue française informatisé has an entry for the suffix -_issime,_ which says (my translation) "Suffix taken from Latin _-issimus_ or from Italian _-issimo,_ used to form adjectives in the superlative, generally with an ironic or humorous nuance."


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## john_riemann_soong

Hmm, so is it actually native to French then?


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## edwingill

also gravissime


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## Lezert

there are some cases where we use "issime" now
il est urgentissime 
j'ai vu ce spectacle, c'était grandissime
probablement d'autres qui ne me viennent pas à l'esprit maintenant.
En tout cas, pour donner un effet emphatique, on peut créer, et on sera compris  
_ce forum est intéressantissime_


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## judkinsc

Do these forms follow standard French pronunciation: such as "grandissime" ending with an "eem" sound.  Or do they follow the Latin or Italian model and end with a "iss-im-é?"


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## Lezert

judkinsc said:


> Do these forms follow standard French pronunciation: such as "grandissime" ending with an "eem" sound


Yes, justissime


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## KaRiNe_Fr

On entend beaucoup "cette fille est sublissime" aussi. 
(tiens, on ne le cite pas sur le TLFi celui-ci)


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## Dorigan

john_riemann_soong said:


> Hmm, so is it actually native to French then?



Je ne comprends pas l'opposition que vous semblez faire entre "native French" et latin. Le Français, l'Italien et l'Espagnol sont des langues très proches du Latin dont elles tirent leur origine. Donc le "native French" est fait aussi bien de patois locaux que de latinismes.
(précision : on prononce "issime" à la française : "eem")


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## marcoszorrilla

Also *Rarissime*.


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## RuK

My two cents: I think the use of "-issime" (cette robe est sublimissime) is recent, and deliberately quotes Italian for increased tralala effect. It's almost impossible to use these words without causing a tiny smile to break out, because they're deliberately girly and silly.


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## Dorigan

If you mean that the ironic use is recent, I agree... but if you mean the use of "issime" is recent, I don't, because you can find it in Ronsard's poetry (but it's true the Pleiade poets took it from Italian) and that went with all the hyperbolic terms that XVI century was found of.


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## Moonlit-Sunset

it's a way to emphasize what you say (usually from a good point of view)


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## scotty1418

a stylistic emphasis? So no real change in definition?


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## Albaboul

john_riemann_soong said:


> I was viewing the French Wikipedia article on the Order of the Garter and I noticed it used "*nobilissime*" as a superlative, ie. *le nobilissime ordre de la Jarretière*. I am piqued. I know Latin uses "issimus" as a superlative, or related forms thereof (e.g. _maximus_ is Latin for "the biggest") but I did not know it existed in French (converting the -us to -e), even as archaic forms.
> 
> I did note the superlative was put in front of the noun, as opposed to after the noun, as "l'ordre le plus noble" would do instead. Is this just a re-Latinisation? Is this a literary thing, perhaps of Old French/Middle French custom that died out? It makes me highly curious.


Yes, it's a pretty old thing and isn't used a lot. The only exception I can think of is "génialissime" which is an exaggeration, and can be used in spoken french.


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## Locape

_Génialissime _isn’t the only word used in French, even in spoken language, as said above. There's the pretty common _ gravissime_, _sublissime_, _rarissime,_ also used in writing, _richissime _or _nullissime_.


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## mehoul

Locape said:


> sublissime



Sublissime ou sublimissime?

Rarissime, gravissime et richissime sont courants. J'ai déjà lu ou entendu brillantissime.


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## broglet

The only one of these that I have ever come across is rarissime, which paradoxically seems very common


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## trans-latour

Auxquels on peut rajouter:
Excellentissime, Illustrissime, Célébrissime, Enormissime, Grandissime.


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## Bezoard

Cultissime.


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## OLN

Pourquoi parle-t-on d'archaïsme ? Les adjectifs en -issime sont toujours d'usage, et on continue d'en inventer.


mehoul said:


> Sublissime ou sublimissime?


"Sublissime", superlatif de "suble" ?  L'haplologie facilite certainement les choses à ceux qui ont des problèmes de prononciation.

On trouve sublissime dans des textes en latin et en italien du XIXe, apparemment en concurrence avec sublimissime. [...]
Dans la littérature française, sublimissime l'emporte haut la main.


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## Locape

Tu as raison, ainsi que @mehoul, je voulais écrire _sublimissime_, qui est en effet le plus courant, mais je lis de plus en plus souvent _ sublissime_ sur des sites. C'est présenté comme une forme elliptique très récente de _sublimissime_.


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## Nanon

_Simplissime_ est assez courant ; c'est devenu le titre d'une collection de livres de cuisine.


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## Bezoard

On peut même former ces superlatifs sur des adjectifs d'origine étrangère, comme dans _topissime._
topissime — Wiktionnaire


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## snarkhunter

OLN said:


> Pourquoi parle-t-on d'archaïsme ? Les adjectifs en -issime sont toujours d'usage, et on continue d'en inventer.
> 
> "Sublissime", superlatif de "suble" ?  L'haplologie facilite certainement les choses à ceux qui ont des problèmes de prononciation.
> 
> On trouve sublissime dans des textes en latin et en italien du XIXe, apparemment en concurrence avec sublimissime. [...]
> Dans la littérature française, sublimissime l'emporte haut la main.


C'est une précision très intéressante. Merci !
Parce que "sublissime" me fait bondir à chaque fois et que j'étais convaincu qu'il ne s'agissait que d'une version abâtardie de "sublimissime" (qui restera le seul terme que je veux employer dans ce cas).

Détail amusant : les deux termes provoquent une détection d'erreur orthographique à l'usage sur ce forum !


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## Bezoard

OLN said:


> On trouve sublissime dans des textes en latin et en italien du XIXe, apparemment en concurrence avec sublimissime. [...]


Oui, mais quand on vérifie dans le détail ces occurrences, la plupart se révèlent vite être des coquilles.
Pour le français, il est amusant de constater combien le succès de _sublimissime_ (et de son concurrent castré) est récent.


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## broglet

très intéressant Bezoard - ça vient d'où, ce détail des occurrences?


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## Bezoard

Oups, j'avais oublié d'indiquer la source, Ngram Viewer, of course :
Google Books Ngram Viewer


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