# Swedish: til syvende og sidst



## Casparul

I've been reading some books by Håkan Nesser lately (in Swedish) and I was somewhat surprised to see him use the Danish phrase "til syvende og sidst" on several occasions.

I don't recall hearing or reading it in the past, so I was wondering if this is a Håkan Nesser peculiarity or if it is common in Swedish and I just never noticed it. Any Swedish native speakers out there with an opinion on this matter?


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## hanne

For what it's worth I did some googling:



> SYVENDE OCH SIST. En annan läsare skriver och frågar om uttrycket till syvende och sist. Borde inte detta danska uttryck skrivas helt på danska, frågar han. I så fall heter det til syvende og sidst. Men formen till syvende och sist är den som brukar användas och den enda som Svenska Akademiens ordlista anger. Betydelsen är "när allt kommer omkring". Syvende betyder sjunde, bildat av syv, sju. Uttrycket kan komma ifrån Bibeln, där det i skapelseberättelsen sägs att Gud vilade på sjunde dagen, efter att ha fullbordat sitt verk. Allitterationen med syvende och sist fungerar stärkande och bidrar till uttryckets livskraft.


(from http://www.corren.se/mer-pa-corren/?articleId=4184967)

Nationalencyklopedin also has a page on it - not that it says a lot, but I guess it tells us that it isn't just Håkan Nesser's invention/private import.

I'm sure the Swedes will come along shortly with further details on usage. How do you pronounce it? In a swedified way (obviously not sjunde, but hopefully you know what I mean), or in an imitated-Danish kind of way?


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## Tjahzi

To me, the expression sounds old fashioned (in fact, it hasn't struck me that it's Danish, but I've rather just been assuming that it's "old" Swedish) but I do hear and read it once in a while. I can't say I associate it with Håkan Nesser, but it could be the case that he uses it more than the average writer/speaker.


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## Lars H

It's not a phrase kids would use, but far more Swedes than Håkan Nesser uses it, among them myself.
Perhaps most coomon in lecturing, politics or dedate articles in newspapers. 
Being conservative beyond recognition, I myself reject Svenska Akademins spelling proposal and spell it always the Danish way


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## Åvävvla

One of my lecturers said "til syvende å sidst" yesterday. So yes, the expression is heard every now and then.


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## Sepia

Casparul said:


> I've been reading some books by Håkan Nesser lately (in Swedish) and I was somewhat surprised to see him use the Danish phrase "til syvende og sidst" on several occasions.
> 
> I don't recall hearing or reading it in the past, so I was wondering if this is a Håkan Nesser peculiarity or if it is common in Swedish and I just never noticed it. Any Swedish native speakers out there with an opinion on this matter?



I know the expresssion well, but its been years since I last heard it used in Danish.


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## Casparul

Sepia said:


> I know the expresssion well, but its been years since I last heard it used in Danish.


 
Yes, yes, I hear it regularly in Danish. The question is how common it is in an otherwise *Swedish* text.


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## Sepia

Casparul said:


> Yes, yes, I hear it regularly in Danish. The question is how common it is in an otherwise *Swedish* text.



You hear it mainly from older people or from all age groups?


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## Casparul

Sepia said:


> You hear it mainly from older people or from all age groups?


 
I haven't heard children use it, but adults of all ages use it - primarily the more well-educated ones, though.


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## Mike144

The phrase is used in a translation to Swedish of a novel by the Icelander Arnaldur Indridason. (Svart Himmel)

Whereas Nesser writing as he does about Malmö (where no doubt more Danish phrases are in use than in most of the rest of Sweden) can just about get away with such a usage, I find the idea of using a non-Swedish phrase in a translation into Swedish to be abhorrent. 

In fact my first impression was that the translator had left the phrase in to be translated later and had subsequently forgotten about it!


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## AutumnOwl

Mike144 said:


> Whereas Nesser writing as he does about Malmö (where no doubt more Danish phrases are in use than in most of the rest of Sweden) can just about get away with such a usage, I find the idea of using a non-Swedish phrase in a translation into Swedish to be abhorrent.


I don't think that most Swedes consider _syvende og sidst _to be a non-Swedish phrase, it's been used for so long that it's now considered as a part of Swedish vocabulary. I live far from Malmö and hear it sometimes, it's not common but not unusual either.


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## Wilma_Sweden

Out of curiosity, the Swedish corpus "Korp" has 25 instances of "syvende *og *sist" and 697 instances of "syvende *och* sist". The samples with Danish spelling are from "modern" sources such as blogs and newspapers (Göteborgsposten 2007). I've always considered it a Danish loan and would have written 'og' without even thinking about it. Now that I've thought about it, I would probably follow the spelling recommended by the Swedish Academy....


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