# Question re -imis + -dir



## tristero

I have a question for native Turkish speakers regarding some forms on page 74 of Kissling's "Osmanisch Tuerkische Grammatik".

He provides some forms such as "imişimdir, imişsindir," etc. and then gives some supposed examples:

çirkin imiştir (çirkinmiştir)
hasta imiştir (hastaymıştır)
yorgunmuşlardır (yorgun imişlerdir)

I've fairly sure I've never seen forms like these, and they strike me as simply wrong; while one could say, for instance, regarding Ahmet, depending on the context, that

"Ahmet hasta",

"Ahmet hastaymış", or

"Ahmet hastadır",

it makes no sense to say "Ahmet hastaymıştır"

Is such a form really possible in standard Turkish, and, if so, what would it mean?

Personally, I think this is a case of a non-Turkish grammarian confusing the verbal suffix -mış and the evidential modality market imiş/(-y)mış, but would welcome comments from native speakers.  

(Please note that I'm aware of verbal forms such as "almıştır", "gelmişlerdir" and the like; it's with the "-imiş" and "-dir" coming together after an adjective or a noun that I'm concerned.)

Many thanks.


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## Rallino

That is absolutely wrong in standard Turkish. I've never heard anyone say "hastaymıştır".

I've heard other wrong usages like: "Yapıyormuştu", "Geliyormuştu"...in middle Anatolian Dialect, especially in Eskişehir. However those forms you gave, they don't mean much.


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## Stambouliote

maybe, it was used somehow in ottoman era. But today there's definitely no use for 'hastaymıştır' or 'çirkinmiştir'. Seeing Turkish has lost some of tenses or grammatical rules in the past 100 years, it's possible that this was once used but now disappeared. So, you are right. It's simple wrong!


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## Volcano

*You are right, tristero.There cant come two different (tense) complemantary verbs following one another after a name.*


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## e174043

Me too. I have heard some usage before but they are absulately wrong. "miş" provides the past perfect tense in Turkish. Moreover, this tense gives the meaning that you heard something from third person in the past. For example;

Ahmet Ankara'ya gitmiş. (I didn't see he when he were getting on the bus or he didn't say me anything about that, I just heard from someone else.)

Sen gelmeden o gitmişti. (When I got there, s/he had already gone.)
Sen gelmeden o gitti.(When I got there, s/he went/left.
These two are the same in terms of the meaning. But the first one has stronger meaning than does the second.


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## seyyah

e174043 said:


> ... "miş" provides the perfect tense in Turkish.


That's not quite correct. -miş doesn't have the same function as the English perfect tenses.

-miş has a past meaning and when combined with another past (usually -di), it gives the meaning of English past perfect.


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## e174043

You're right, I was watching TV so I missed the "past"


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## tristero

Many thanks for the helpful responses!


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