# mutton dressed as lamb



## cobweb

*mutton dressed as lamb
*Is there a short French equivalent for this useful and descriptive phrase?


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## polaire

cobweb said:
			
		

> *mutton dressed as lamb
> *Is there a short French equivalent for this useful and descriptive phrase?


Meaning:  A person, usually a woman, hey, it's always a woman, it's a sexist phrase even if it is a good one , who dresses in a style that is inappropriate for her age.

A 55-year-old woman dressed in low-rise jeans with a visible thong and a midriff-baring t-shirt would be an example of "mutton dressed as lamb." (Very extreme example. )

Although if you've seen all the balding men I've seen who sport baseball caps at the age of 50 there should be a male equivalent for this phrase.


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## charlie2

I believe Cobweb wants a French equivalent, Polaire.


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## polaire

charlie2 said:
			
		

> I believe Cobweb wants a French equivalent, Polaire.



 I understood that.  I thought some people might not know what the expression meant.


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## la grive solitaire

Hi cobweb,

_Du mouton déguisé en agneau? _* *I'm not sure there is one... but let's see what others have to say.


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## suffert

Thanks Polaire for this useful explanation. I can't find an equivalent in French though!
Maybe "une victime du jeunisme" ? but it would be broader (and it is not a set phrase)


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## polaire

la grive solitaire said:
			
		

> Hi cobweb,
> 
> _Du mouton déguisé en agneau? _* *I'm not sure there is one... but let's see what others have to say.



L'avis d'une anglaise.  C'est vrai?

*"The French language has no equivalent for the English phrase “mutton dressed as lamb”. *A puzzling oversight considering the army of Parisian _moutons_ out there with their puckered, perma-tanned hides, escort-esque attire and make up applied with a palette knife _�"

http://www.petiteanglaise.com/archives/2004/07/

_


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## deliadame

I can't think of a proper translation but here are some solutions :

If you're insisting on the actual "mutton" (the person) :

1. une _vieille peau_ (very informal and insulting) habillée comme une _jeunette_ / _midinette_

2. une vieille qui porte des _fringues_ (very informal) de jeune

If the emphasis is not on the person and you're just commenting the whole thing :

1. Elle n'a pas compris qu'elle avait passé l'âge des mini-jupes. (She doesn't know she's too old for mini-skirts)

2. Elle croit qu'elle a encore vingt ans ou quoi ? (She thinks she's still 20 years old or what?)


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## emma42

Oh, god, this thread is really scaring me.  I am throwing all my miniskirts and thongs away.

Thank you, deliadame, for those excellent expressions.


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## Le Passant/Ze Passant.

"Elle veut faire illusion [en s'habillant comme une jeune]/elle veut paraitre moins que son age?"... euh...hem...non? no? na?  ?)


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## entylop

deliadame said:
			
		

> I can't think of a proper translation but here are some solutions :
> 
> 1. une _vieille peau_ (very informal and insulting) habillée comme une _jeunette_ / _midinette_



ah ah yes... _Veille peau_ is very informal. it's very funny though.

Une mémé qui s'habille comme une midinette.


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## geve

_Une vieille carne qui se prend pour une pouliche_ ?  
No, I just made that up, and I'm afraid it's a lot more derogatory than the English expression.  

_Une (vieille) carne = derogatory for an old useless horse / derogatory for a vulgar, unpleasant person, a woman especially_
_Une pouliche = a young female horse / slang for a young woman_


Funnily enough, we have the term "vieux beau" that could fit for a man in this context (= an elder man who's being coquettish to seduce younger woman) BUT you can't say "vieille belle" for women! Pour une fois que le sexisme va dans ce sens...  

I like deliadame's suggestions fitted for different contexts


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## Auryn

Dans ma famille, on dit: "*ê**tre **habillée trop jeune*".


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## Lezert

j'imagine ce que je pourrais entendre dans les rues de Touloue
dis donc celle là, tu reviens demain, elle est en barboteuse


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## cobweb

My dictionary actually has it as "elle s'habille trop jeune pour son age", but I was hoping there might be a shorter and punchier phrase: it seems not, perhaps we should create one?


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## emma42

Dinde s'habillée comme paradisier?


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## emma42

Chameau comme chaton?  J'aime cela!


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## geve

Lezert said:
			
		

> j'imagine ce que je pourrais entendre dans les rues de Touloue
> dis donc celle là, tu reviens demain, elle est en barboteuse


   


			
				cobweb said:
			
		

> My dictionary actually has it as "elle s'habille trop jeune pour son age", but I was hoping there might be a shorter and punchier phrase: it seems not, perhaps we should create one?


We could, indeed. I kind of liked my suggestion in post #19  But we need to find the right level of "derogatory", which is not easy...
And the thing is, I don't think you would use "mutton" or "lamb" to describe a woman except in this idiom? (or would you??)
So we could virtually say anything in French too - no need to look for pet names that are actually used in slang to describe women...


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## cobweb

According to my wife, the phrase isn't likely to have an equivalent in French because in England it is seen as worthy of negative comment to dress as though you are many years younger and still as sexy as you were, whereas in France it is _de rigueur_; a French friend of hers (also female) says *all *her friends dress like that.

That said, and having said perhaps we should create  something, let's have a go, and a word is probably punchier than a phrase.

My offerings would be:
_une vieillette_ - this is an amalgamation of _vieille_ and _fillette_, an older women acting/dressing like a young girl. It also has similarity to the English colloquialism *ladette*; a girl, usually in her 20s, pretending to like, or even actually liking, all the activities and pastimes that the lads of her peergroup like.
_une damselle_ - an amalgamation of _madame_ and _mademoiselle_, but meaning a married woman dressing and acting as though she's still single.
_une zelldame_ - same as above.
Can we get one/any of these into modern usage?


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## emma42

Yes, it must be to do with sex, n'est-ce pas? Historically, the French like it and the English do not (No Sex, Please, We're British).(Google images for play poster).

So, it's acceptable (probably mandatory) for Frenchwomen to continue to be sexy whatever the age (well, almost!), but, as sex is really only for reproduction (no pleasure please, we're British) in England, only women, preferably under 30, should be allowed to be sexy. Although why anyone thinks thongs, bleached hair and miniskirts are sexy is beyond me. Well, I am a heterosexual woman, what can I say?

I do like cobweb's coinages, but they don't have the vulgarity and imagery of "mutton dressed as lamb", which, to me, is sooo English.


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## french4beth

I can't come up with an appropriate French expression, but how about "*chipie habillée en chichi*"  ? 
I seem to remember there being a Quebecois expression involving a 'stewing hen' (_poule à bouillir_) _&_ a 'chick' _(poussin),_ but I can't think of the exact phrase (maybe it was just a regional expression)...  



> _chichi_ \SHEE-shee\, _adjective_:
> Affectedly trendy.
> From the French word that literally means "curl of false hair"; used figuratively in the phrases _faire des chichis,_ "to have affected manners, to make a fuss"; and _gens à chichis,_ "affected, snobbish people." Sometimes spelled "chi-chi."


from dictionary.com


[...]


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## CamillaB

is their an equivilent idiomatique expression for this phrase... 

"mutton dressed as lamb"

she was 'mutton dressed as lamb'

il veut dire une femme qui 'dresses too youthfully for her age.'


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## samlibere

"Elle s'habille comme une gamine" ; but if there is a french expression to say that, I just don't know it


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## carog

Bonjour à tous,
Je relance ce fil car j'aimerais savoir s'il existe une expression française qui exprime cela - j'ai beau chercher, je n'arrive pas à trouver quelque chose de plus "imagé" que "elle s'habille comme une gamine".
Merci pour votre aide!
Caroline


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## Canaveral

Ce n'est pas (plus) de son âge !


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## carog

Merci Canaveral!
D'autres suggestions?


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## carog

J'ai encore quelques questions sur cette expression!

1- Est-ce qu'elle fait uniquement référence à une femme d'un certain âge (en pleine crise d'adolescence), comme il est suggéré ici?


polaire said:


> Meaning: A person, usually a woman, hey, it's always a woman, it's a sexist phrase even if it is a good one , who dresses in a style that is inappropriate for her age.


 
2.Est-ce qu'il est possible d'utiliser cette expression dans un contexte hors jeune/vieux, par exemple, je vais à une soirée en robe de bal et je m'aperçois que tous les autres invités sont en jeans. Puis-je dire "I feel like a mutton dressed as a lamb", ou il y a-t-il une autre expression pour cela?

Merci d'avance pour vos suggestions!

Caroline


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## Keith Bradford

carog said:


> J'ai encore quelques questions sur cette expression!
> 
> 1- Est-ce qu'elle fait uniquement référence à une femme d'un certain âge (en pleine crise d'adolescence), comme il est suggéré ici?
> 
> *Oui.*
> 
> 2.Est-ce qu'il est possible d'utiliser cette expression dans un contexte hors jeune/vieux, par exemple, je vais à une soirée en robe de bal et je m'aperçois que tous les autres invités sont en jeans. Puis-je dire "I feel like a mutton dressed as a lamb"
> 
> *Non.*


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## carog

Thank you very much Keith!


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## Arrius

The expression may have been modified in Australia but for me the original form is definitely
*Mutton dressed up as lamb.*
Mainly out of curiosity I tentatively suggest*: elle s'efforce désespérément de faire jeune.*


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## Friendly Fool

Hello folks, I'm new here but will probably be spending more time around since I'm currently trying to read Le Seigneur Des Anneaux, but I thought I'd contribute.

I notice y'all using Habiller as the translation for Dress.
However, "dress," in addition to the verb approximated by "habiller," has a culinary definition meaning something closer to "preparer," (from what I read in the WR Dictionary, at least) which I feel is probably intended within the nuances of the idiom. It seems that preparer can be used to loosely mean something like habiller in addition to the culinary definition bringing it closer to the original meaning. Would it not, then, be a more accurate word to use?

Mouton se preparé comme un agneau


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## Arrius

*I notice y'all using Habiller as the translation for Dress*. *Friendly Fool*
When _up_ is omitted from the expression it could indeed be taken to refer to a culinary dressing:* Du mouton garni comme si ce fût de l'agneau.*


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## Friendly Fool

Well, what I was saying is idioms frequently are equivocal to an extent, or are derived from analogies. It would make sense, then, to translate the equivocal nature of the idiom over if a suitable equivalent can be found. It seemed that many of the suggestions here tried to emphasize on the literal meaning of the idiom while neglecting its figurative and poetic nature.


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## carolineR

if we want to retain the meaning of _dressed_ that Friendly Fool correctly pointed out, i suggest to use "_paré _comme si ce fût de l' agneau" as the verb _parer_ also has two meanings, a culinary and a sartorial one.


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