# what do you call an ethnic in the UK?



## newname

Hi,

Here's a note on usage of the word ethnic

USAGE Referring to a person as an ethnic is broadly acceptable in the US, Australia, and Canada, but could well cause offence in the UK and elsewhere.

I am wondering what the inoffensive word for ethnic is in the UK.

Example:
He's a Mohican. He's an ethnic.

Thank you.


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## lingobingo

I wasn’t even aware that “ethnic” was used as a noun. In the UK, if we needed to distinguish one group from another at all, we’d probably talk about members of ethnic minorities.

See the comments under usage here.


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## Rival

lingobingo said:


> See the comments under usage here.



On that page, use of "ethnic" as a noun is labelled as both "dated" and "offensive".

I certainly don't accept "He's an ethnic" as a correct use.
.


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## lingobingo

Yes. It also says “this usage is quite common”. But, as I said, I’ve never come across it.


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## Rival

lingobingo said:


> It also says “this usage is quite common”



I wonder if they mean 'common' in the derogatory sense. 
.


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## Franco-filly

I've heard/read "..from an ethnic background" but not heard anyone being referred to as "ethnic."


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## Myridon

Derogatory or not, I've never heard anyone say "He's an ethnic." in the US.  I can't believe anyone would find it acceptable either.


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## Keith Bradford

lingobingo said:


> ... I’ve never come across it.


I wish I hadn't, but I often used to come into contact with members of the National Front when I worked in the race relations industry, and I can assure you that there are people who said this.

That doesn't mean that it's good English, good manners or good politics.  It's not.


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## london calling

lingobingo said:


> I wasn’t even aware that “ethnic” was used as a noun. In the UK, if we needed to distinguish one group from another at all, we’d probably talk about members of ethnic minorities.
> 
> See the comments under usage here.


You've never heard 'the ethnics' in London to mean anybody who isn't white? Pronounced 'efnics'?  I'm surprised. Definitely derogatory and un-PC but I've heard it.


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## lingobingo

I don’t get out much!


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## london calling

Seriously, I've heard it said of parts of London where many ethnic minorities live , usually accompanied by 'I didn't see a white face when I was there'.
Definitely offensive.


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## PaulQ

newname said:


> I am wondering what the inoffensive word for ethnic is in the UK.


The answer is to be specific "He's German/Indian/a Mohican/African."
Where this is impossible. "There are too many ethnics around here"  -> "There is a large *minority population* in the area."
"Ethnics all get special treatment!" -> "*Minorities/minority groups* seem to be treated with disproportional consideration."


Franco-filly said:


> I've heard/read "..from an ethnic background"





Keith Bradford said:


> That doesn't mean that it's good English, good manners or good politics. It's not.


Well, it is good English - using an adjective as absolute - but the rest is true.


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## london calling

You've never heard of anyone being referred to as an 'ethnic' either, Paul? Which planet do you all live on?

Seriously, is this a London thing then? It's been around for years.


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## sound shift

I don't live in London and I have not had any dealings with the National Front. I do live on planet Earth, though. I've never heard anyone say "He's/She's an ethnic."


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## london calling

Are you suggesting I have had dealings with The National Front, SS? I can assure you I haven't. And yet I can assure you that 'efnics' is used in London.


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## lingobingo

I think he was referring to Keith’s post #8.


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## newname

Thank you. In fact minority groups get preferential treatment in my country. 

1. He is from an ethnic background.
2. He’s a member of a minority.
3. He’s a member of an ethnic group.
4. He’s a member of a minority group.

Are they good and of the same meaning?


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## newname

Just looked up ‘National Front’. Now I know you can use ‘ethnic’ to insult a member of a minority.


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## Hermione Golightly

I don't even know what a 'Mohican' is in terms of ethnicity. I've never heard of 'an ethnic' but wouldn't be surprised. It's a useful word - you can tell a lot about the person who chooses to use it.


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## Hermione Golightly

> Now I know you can use ‘ethnic’ to insult a member of a minority.


 ? There are lots of words we can use to insult others, but we choose not to.
I think you mean _'ethnic' is sometimes used_ as an insult.


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## sound shift

london calling said:


> Are you suggesting I have had dealings with The National Front, SS?


 Of course not!


lingobingo said:


> I think he was referring to Keith’s post #8.


Yes, I was.


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## london calling

Hermione Golightly said:


> I don't even know what a 'Mohican' is in terms of ethnicity. I've never heard of 'an ethnic' but wouldn't be surprised. It's a useful word - you can tell a lot about the person who chooses to use it.


To me a Mohican is a haircut in BE slang: it has nothing to do with ethnicity in that case.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

How would a person who said "Mr. X* is an ethnic." reply to the question "What ethnic are you?" But I can't imagine anyone asking that question. I can imagine someone who is biased saying it to avoid saying "blacks" or  insults such as "nig-nogs/Pakis/kikes/paddies, etc.". I agree with Keith's comment on its use. 
 *I doubt they'd say "Mr", though.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

london calling said:


> To me a Mohican is a haircut in BE slang: it has nothing to do with et*h*nicity* in that case.



It does as much as calling a hairstyle "an Afro"; Comanches didn't wear their hair the same way as Mochicans. 
*FIFY


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## london calling

They don't say " XXX is an ethnic". They talk abour "ethics", a nasty way of saying the person isn't white (I have never heard the term used for white ethnic minorities, for example Romanians).


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## london calling

A mowhawk/mohican:








Wikipedia:

The *mohawk* (also referred to as a *mohican*) is a hairstyle in which, in the most common variety, both sides of the head are shaven, leaving a strip of noticeably longer hair in the center.


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## Hermione Golightly

> To me a Mohican is a haircut in BE slang: it has nothing to do with ethnicity in that case.


Right! I wonder if newname means 'Mexican'?

There are varieties of British these days. It would be a serious mistake to assume someone was from an ethnic minority because they didn't look like most British people. My granddaughter is as British as me and she's considered black.


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## london calling

Nobody's saying it's right, HG. My brother's girlfriend's daughters are also considered black because their dad was Jamaican but they're still British.


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## Hermione Golightly

Newname seemed to suggest that he thinks it's OK, with the ambiguous 'you can'.



> Now I know you can use ‘ethnic’ to insult a member of a minority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? There are lots of words we can use to insult others, but we choose not to.
> I think you mean _'ethnic' is sometimes used_ as an insult.
Click to expand...


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## AnythingGoes

newname said:


> 1. He is from an ethnic background.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Are they good and of the same meaning?


Number 1 is meaningless. Everybody has an ethnic background.


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## newname

Interesting to know some of you don’t read the famous book The Last of the Mohicans. I think Uncas was an ‘ethnic’ now that all that were left of his tribe were him and his father.


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## london calling

Hermione Golightly said:


> Newname seemed to suggest that he thinks it's OK, with the ambiguous 'you can'.


Now I know you can use ‘ethnic’ to insult a member of a minority.

Yes, HG. If you want to insult someone, use it (God help us...).


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## newname

Thank you Anythinggoes for pointing that out.


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## Hermione Golightly

That's what I was telling newname.


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## london calling

newname said:


> Interesting to know some of you don’t read the famous book The Last of the Mohicans. I think Uncas was an ‘ethnic’ now that all that were left of his tribe were him and his father.


I've read the book, as I'm sure many people here have. That said in the UK 'Mohican' means a member of that tribe or a haircut. We would never say a Mohican 'was an ethnic' as it is perceived as derogatory (see all the posts above), so please don't do it yourself.


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## Rival

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> or  insults such as "nig-nogs/Pakis/kikes/paddies, etc.



I doubt that kikes and paddies are "ethnics" -- they don't have the requisite ... (ahem) ... dark complexion.
.


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## newname

london calling said:


> Now I know you can use ‘ethnic’ to insult a member of a minority.
> 
> Yes, HG. If you want to insult someone, use it (God help us...).



I’ll tell you this true story. A K’hor, also a native minority group in my country, refused to date a girl from his own group. The story went like this:
Me: Why don’t you go out with her?
The K’hor man: Who would like her? She’s as black as an ‘ethnic’.

We, the Viet majority group, have an insulting word for a member of a minority group. And this man was using that exact word.
My question is: is ethnic a right word in this situation?

London Calling answered it when I was writing this. Thank you.


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## heypresto

She’s as black as an ‘ethnic’. 

No.


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## kentix

Rival said:


> they don't have the requisite ... (ahem) ... dark complexion.


"Ethnics" in the U.S. come in all colors. Nowadays it's most prominently used in political coverage talking about voting trends. In fact, I think it's almost exclusively used for people who would, in general circumstances, be considered white. It comes from a historical contrast between the earliest settlers, WASPs (white Anglo-Saxon protestants) and later arrivals from Italy and the rest of the Mediterranean, Eastern Europe, Ireland, etc., who were white but tended to be much more Catholic and culturally distinct from the WASPs. Historically, they tended to vote in patterns different from other groups. One of a politician's jobs, especially in New York and other Eastern metropolises, was to court those ethnic groups for their votes. Race is a whole different topic in the U.S.

From Wikipedia:

_*White ethnic* is a term used to refer to White Americans who are not Old Stock or White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.[1] They consist of a number of distinct groups and make up approximately 9.4% of the United States population.[2] The term usually refers to the descendants of immigrants from Southern, Central and Eastern Europe, Ireland, the Caucasus, and France/French-speaking Canada.[3][4] _

White ethnic - Wikipedia


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## Keith Bradford

newname said:


> ...
> The K’hor man: Who would like her? She’s as black as an ‘ethnic’.
> ...
> My question is: is ethnic a right word in this situation?


I'd say yes, it is the right word, it's exactly the sort of thing that sort of man might say, if he were British.  Note what Hermione Golightly said in post #19: "It's a useful word - you can tell a lot about the person who chooses to use it."


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## PaulQ

newname said:


> My question is: is ethnic a right word in this situation?


It is the right word, but it is very insulting. If you wanted to make someone very annoyed and insult them, then that is what you would say.

Your problem is not so much language, but culture. Vietnam is broadly composed of one type of person - the Vietnamese: as a consequence those from other backgrounds are seen as being separate and different. The UK and America have mixed populations in which there are many from minority backgrounds (many of whom were born here and have parents who were born here.)

We see no need to insult them or treat them as if they were any different. We therefore naturally have words and phrases that do not have bad emotional and irrelevant connotations.

When you speak English, you should use only words that will not insult and annoy people.

(crossposted with the more succinct Keith)


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