# Of the moon



## SerinusCanaria3075

Good morning, evening, night...
I just had a question about the genitive/dative forms in Romanian. From what I've seen, when a noun is in the plural form all I need to do is add "lor" as a suffix, correct?
So in the singular the definite article is always needed, right? My problem is with some of the femine nouns that can be "irregular" at times. 

lună 
Gen/Dat singular: lunei (_lunii_ maybe?)
Gen/ Dat plural: lun*i*lor
Are these correct or am I missing something?


----------



## Trisia

Ok, so I fully expect some Romanian to kick me for this - answering grammar questions again  - but you're right and I wanted to tell you so.
To find the plural G/D, yes, you add "lor" to the plural of the nominative/accusative form.

If you're searching for the *singular *Genitive/Dative form of a feminine noun, you _always _add an "*i*" to the plural form (There may be some exceptions, but none come to mind). It's a great way to distinguish between correct forms (lunii) and archaic or simply incorrect ones (lunei).

N/Ac. _sing_. - lună  -» _pl_. lun*i* -» G/D _sing_.: *lunii *(as you correctly guessed ) -» _pl_. lun*i*lor

Same for:

N/Ac. _sing_. mamă -» _pl. _mam*e*  --» G/D _sing_. mam*ei* -_» pl_. mam*e*lor
 lumină - lumin*i* - lumin*ii* - lumin*i*lor
pisică - pisic*i* - pisic*ii* - pisic*i*lor
zăpadă - zăpez*i* - zăpez*ii* - zăpez*i*lor
.

.
I did find an 'exception' (feeling hungry right now )

N/Ac. _sing_. mâncare ("food" but also eating and its result - see here, not really used that way) -» _pl_. mâncăr*uri* (types of food) *or* mânc*ări* (sessions of eating, if that makes any sense)
G/D _sing_. uses the form mâncăr*i* -» mâncăr*ii*
G/D _pl_. uses the form mâncăr*uri* -» mâncăr*uri*lor

so the rule stays the same, but the form used is different, and I have no idea why, except that it would be mighty difficult to say _mâncărurii_ (?!?)

 There are other exceptions, probably based on obsolete or not-so-used forms. I hope my fellow forum members can enlighten you further on the matter


----------



## SerinusCanaria3075

Thank you very, very much. At least I'm on the right track on this one. I was wondering though, if "casă" could be a feminine exception:
Casă 
Sing. Gen/Dat: Cas*a*, Cas*ei* (I saw it on 2 websites but)
But for the most part all female singular genitive/dative forms end in *-ii* like you said, right?


----------



## Trisia

Actually, as far as I know (but my knowledge of grammar doesn't go that far ), cas*ei* _is_ the correct form (casă -> cas*e* -> cas*ei*). The other form (casii) is used, yes, but incorrectly (I think).

Fun fact: a dated form would be căşii - I just found a test for police agents - they were supposed to pick from casei and căşii (cas*ii* would have been misleading, obviously )



> But for the most part all female singular genitive/dative forms end in *-ii* like you said, right?


Not really. The rule doesn't say it should end in -*ii*, it says you should add an -*i* to the plural form. The fact that it usually happens to be like you said is a bit tricky.

For example: o maşină - două maşin*i* - maşin*ii

* BUT:

o bomboană (candy) - două bomboan*e* - bomboan*ei
*o reţetă (recipe/prescription) - două reţet*e* - reţet*ei
*o fată (girl) - două fet*e* - fet*ei

*Is this clearer now?


----------



## SerinusCanaria3075

Ah, I see what you mean. I guess it'll take a lot of practice for me to get the female form right without having to see any notes. Although thanks to your examples with the indefinite article the process is much clearer. 
Thanks for your help.


----------



## Trisia

Always eager to help 

(I didn't use the indefinite article - it was a definite numeral adjective - they get confused mighty easily)


----------

