# Norwegian: 'to see someone as he truly is'



## mezzoforte

I've been trying to figure out how to say the above expression, and in the meanwhile have been learning lots from a Norwegian grammar book (from 1977 )

I found the construction "*selve seg*"... does it work if I say: "*å se noen som selve seg*"?

Can I say: "*å se noen som man er*"?  I don't know if this has the right effect, or even is good grammar.

Thank you!  I just found this forum!


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## missTK

I would say "Å se noen som han (virkelig/egentlig) er", eller "se noens sanne jeg" (true self).

"Selve seg" sounds strange to me. It's probably a grammatical construction, but I can't remember ever hearing it.

In "å se noen som man er", man would refer to the one who sees, not the one who's seen.


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## mezzoforte

Thx missTK for the fast response!  Could we use the word "*slik*" here?  Something like: "*å se noen slik som han er*"?  I'm having trouble understanding how to use that word; I feel that I'm misusing it here.

I'm sure "*å se noen som han er*" works, but I don't know if it carries the full meaning.  Or does it?

Could you translate it more like: "_t__o see the other such as he is"_; I think it's nicer in French: "_voir l'autre tel qu'il est"_.  It is good to say "*å se en annen som han er*"?


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## cevita

I agree with *missTK* on your first question.

Your suggestion in your second post (with the word "slik") changes the sentence a little bit:
å se noen (slik) som han er = to see someone (like) the way he is 

But you can't say "å se en annen som han er". It means to see another one/someone else like he is, and that isn't what you were going for, right?


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## oskhen

cevita said:


> But you can't say "å se en annen som han er". It means to see another one/someone else like he is, and that isn't what you were going for, right?


 
"Å se den andre", would be the translation of "to see the other". And I would place an "virkelig" in the sentence: "å se den andre som han virkelig er"


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## oskhen

missTK said:


> "Selve seg" sounds strange to me. It's probably a grammatical construction, but I can't remember ever hearing it.


 
I've seen it in an old folk song: "mannen han tenkte med sjølve seg", but it's more or less never used nowadays, I think.


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## mezzoforte

Just to double-check: *sjølv *and *selv* are interchangeable?  Which is better/more common?

So "*den andre*" can mean a person?  Would this sentence make sense: "*Bare de som elsker, kan se den andre som han virkelig er*"?

What about removing "*virkelig*"... or is it important?  In English we may just say "_*such *as he is_", or in French "_*tel *qu'il est_".  Is "*som han er*" equivalent?  No matter, I do like your wording: "_as he *really* is_".


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## Tech12

mezzoforte said:


> Just to double-check: *sjølv *and *selv* are interchangeable?  Which is better/more common?



"Sjølv" is Nynorsk.

"Sjøl" is an alternative in Bokmål, but "selv" is much more common.


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> So "*den andre*" can mean a person? Would this sentence make sense: "*Bare de som elsker, kan se den andre som han virkelig er*"?


 
"Den andre" would mainly make sense to me if it's used of a specific person in a specific situation, where it's clear who is meant.


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> "Den andre" would mainly make sense to me if it's used of a specific person in a specific situation, where it's clear who is meant.



Okay!  That is like in English.  But I want it to be poetic, like a saying/adage.  Can I eliminating *virkelig* and just say "*den andre som han er*" or "*noen som han er*"?

Does *noen* sound better for you?


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## hanne

mezzoforte said:


> Okay!  That is like in English.  But I want it to be poetic, like a saying/adage.  Can I eliminating *virkelig* and just say "*den andre som han er*" or "*noen som han er*"?
> 
> Does *noen* sound better for you?


I think this is like English all the way through: "den andre" = "the other", "noen" = "somebody", and "virkelig" = "really".
"se den andre som han er" = "see the other as he is"
"se noen som han er" = "see somebody as he is"
Pick whichever version you'd use in English, and use the corresponding Norwegian.

Personally, I'd think that "see somebody as he is" sounded a bit funny, and "see somebody as he really is" sounded more natural, but if you'd say it without "really" in English, then by all means go ahead and eliminate "virkelig".


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## mezzoforte

hanne said:


> I think this is like English all the way through: "den andre" = "the other", "noen" = "somebody", and "virkelig" = "really".
> "se den andre som han er" = "see the other as he is"
> "se noen som han er" = "see somebody as he is"
> Pick whichever version you'd use in English, and use the corresponding Norwegian.
> 
> Personally, I'd think that "see somebody as he is" sounded a bit funny, and "see somebody as he really is" sounded more natural, but if you'd say it without "really" in English, then by all means go ahead and eliminate "virkelig".



Thank you Hanne!  I agree that just with "somebody" it sounds funny; but I like to think of "noen" as meaning "someone".


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## Wilma_Sweden

This thread had meandered way off-topic, and has now been split.

The posts on topics other than the above expression have been moved to the following threads:

*Norwegian: Slik / så / så at*
*Norwegian: -a (noun suffix)*
*Norwegian: forat / for at*

Ideally, each thread should be about a single topic. If a new topic emerges during a discussion, it should go in a separate thread. Thank you for your understanding.

/Wilma, Moderator


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## mezzoforte

Is there an expression for the idiom "_To see someone *for what *_*he is*"?  This is similar to "_To see someone as he really is_", except it's more about recognizing something about the person that others don't see (and that even _you _didn't see at first).


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