# FR: où / dans lequel/laquelle



## Tararam

Hi,

I constantly confuse these two and have no idea in which situation each one should be used.

Can someone clarify this for me?

For example... would it be: "La chambre où j'ai vu le lit" or "La chambre dans laquelle j'ai vu le lit"?

Thanks.

*Moderator note: *multiple threads merged to create this one


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## itka

Les deux sont correctes et possibles.
_"La chambre où j'ai vu ce lit"_ est plus légère et donc plus naturelle que l'autre.


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## johnp

You can use either one.  In the first sentence où is a relative pronoun functioning as a direct object referring back to chambre and in the second one the relative pronoun laquelle is the object of the preposition and refers also to chambre.


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## FRENFR

It is a mirrored concept in English, too. It is much more 'heavy' (unfortunately) to say "The place to which I will travel is...." than "The place I will travel to is...".

You can change almost all sentences to read like that, but we just don't do it in (B) or (A) English. (British/American).

In French, such as this example, you can use two choices, one being more heavy than the other, whereas other times, you are stuck with the one fixed expression, such as a favourite for example:

[…]

Hope that sheds some light on the matter..


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## Tararam

Are the two always interchangeable when referring to *places*?
because obviously you can't say "Lundi est le jour dans lequel..." où would be the correct one here... right?


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## Lezert

When "où" doesn't refer to a place, you are absolutely right, they are not always  interchangeable thumbsdow), but sometimes yes thumbsup: 
- dans l'état où je suis /  dans lequel je suis 
- au prix où est le pétrole 

And when it is refferring to places, they are not always interchangeable:
- for a question:    où es tu? par où est-il venu? 
- in this kind of construction: :    le pays d'où il vient 

Once again, the rule is that there is no rule


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## Philip(pe)

Are you saying that these examples are incorrect, unacceptable in French? What is wrong with them? My hunch is to say "le pays dont il vient," but isn't "le pays d'où il vient" equally correct? And what could possibly be wrong with "où es tu?"


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## Nicomon

Hi Philip(pe)

The sentences he marked with an  are OK. So what Lezert wrote is that _où_ and _dans_ _lequel_ are interchangeable in the first sentence. Hence the  Whereas you could not replace _où_ with _dans lequel _in the other sentences. 

Incidentally... _Le pays dont il vient_ isn't right. At least I don't think it is. _D'où il vient_ is correct.

[…]


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## issey1

Est-ce qu'il faut dire:

La boite dans laquelle je l'ai rencontrée 

Ou

La boite où je l'ai rencontrée?


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## Borax Anhydre

Si on considère la boite comme un contenant alors "dans laquelle"
Si on considère la boite comme un lieu alors "où"
Comme une boite est plutôt dans la categorie des contenants, "dans laquelle" me plait bien


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## issey1

Humm, ici c'est une boite de nuit. Faut-il alors dire La boite ou je l'ai rencontrée?


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## stumerr

A mon avis les deux marchent très bien


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## issey1

Hi, 

should it be, 'la ville dans laquelle elle a grandi" or 'la ville où elle a grandi'


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## xtrasystole

It's _"la ville _*où*_ elle a grandi / _*où*_ elle a fait ses études / _*où*_ elle a vécu, etc." _

_"La ville dans laquelle..."_ is grammatically correct but not in common use.


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## issey1

Oh ok, thank you. Which would be more appropriate though in a newspaper article?


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## xtrasystole

_"La ville _*où*_ elle a..."_ sounds better (newspaper article or whatever).


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## belledejeu

Can you use où to denote a figurative place for example: "Examinons le chapitre où Gargantua est né." or would you have to use "dans lequel" in this instance?  I use them interchangeably when I am talking about literature and I want to know if this is acceptable usage.  Thanks.


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## jann

Welcome, Belledejeu. 

Technically, Gargantua wasn't born "in" a chapter.  He was perhaps born in a house, or in the forest, etc.  (Sorry, I don't remember the story.)  So it would be more precise to refer to the chapter that "tells the story of his birth" or the chapter "about his birth" or "in which we learn of his birth" etc.  There are lots of ways to say it, and several of these formulations will allow you to avoid the problem entirely. 

That said, the question stands:  is it _le chapitre où il s'agit d'X _or rather _le chapitre dans lequel il s'agit d'X_?  I believe both are possible, but I suspect that the second option is a bit more literary.  Please wait for native speakers.


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## tatoearashiga

La maison (dans laquelle/où) j'habite date du dix-neuvième siècle. 

Even I read about this, I am still confused. What is the correct answer and why?


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## jann

Both are correct.  Grammatically speaking, you can always use _où_ in place of a more complicated relative pronoun to identify a physical location.  

Of course there will be times when that simplification causes you to lose too much information, in which case you will prefer to keep the more complicated structure.  For example, if you lost your scarf in the street in front of a store, you would not say _la boutique où j'ai perdu mon foulard_ (the store "where" I lost my scarf) because that implies you were in the store when you lost it.  So you would want to be more accurate and say _la boutique devant laquelle j'ai perdu mon foulard_ (the store "in front of which" I lost my scarf).

But for your example, people usually live inside their homes (it is not as if you are a dog who lives in the yard!), so there is no problem with the simplification.  The house "where" I live = The house "in which" I live.


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