# Norwegian - eg,ei,er



## mezzoforte

Can someone give me the phonetic name for the first vowel in the diphthong *eg/ei*?  I think of it as being like *e* (close-mid front) but almost *æ* (near open front)... so perhaps as a mid front or open-mid front vowel.

I don't think I've heard it as an *e* (close-mid front), like in the English *day*.  I often hear it as the usual English/French* a* (i.e. open front vowel), that is, I hear *eg/ei* as the English word "_*I*_".  Or maybe I've heard both.... 

A related question is if this vowel is the same as the *e* in *er*.  Also, how is the *e* in *er,der* different from the *e* in *verden* (apart from long/short).


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## kirsitn

Eg is not a diphtong - it's pronounced just like e + g, where the e is similar to the e-sound in day. Ei can be pronounced either as the ay in day or as æi, but æi is the most common pronunciation in the Oslo dialect.

Er, der and verden are all pronounced with æ. (Er - ær, der - dær, verden - værd'n)


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## Pteppic

"eg" is only pronounced "æi" in pronouns (*jeg*, *meg*, *deg*, *seg*). As an example, *seg* can also be the past tense of the verb *sige* (to trickle or slide), in which case the pronunciation is [se:g].


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## mezzoforte

kirsitn said:


> Eg is not a diphtong - it's pronounced just like e + g, where the e is similar to the e-sound in day. Ei can be pronounced either as the ay in day or as æi, but æi is the most common pronunciation in the Oslo dialect.
> 
> Er, der and verden are all pronounced with æ. (Er - ær, der - dær, verden - værd'n)



obviously I meant *eg* at the end of a word... *eg* is a Nynorsk word isn't it?


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## basslop

mezzoforte said:


> obviously I meant *eg* at the end of a word... *eg* is a Nynorsk word isn't it?



That's right. Also *seg*, *meg*, *deg* and other eg-words are pronounced *"eg"* in nynorsk and in the dialects that are relates to nynorsk (Western Norway etc).


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## basslop

Talkin about dialects: In some dialects *eg *is prounounced more like *"ei" *instead of *"æi"*.


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## mezzoforte

Ok, so how is the Standard East Norwegian or Oslo pronunciation of *deg, er, der, verden*?

Is *deg* ever pronounced like the English word *die*?


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> Ok, so how is the Standard East Norwegian or Oslo pronunciation of *deg, er, der, verden*?
> 
> Is *deg* ever pronounced like the English word *die*?



In my faraway East Norwegian homeland, it's æ in all your examples, a bit closed perhaps. And "deg" is pronounced "dæi". I don't think anyone pronounce it like "die"


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> In my faraway East Norwegian homeland, it's æ in all your examples, a bit closed perhaps. And "deg" is pronounced "dæi". I don't think anyone pronounce it like "die"



Ok.  *die* is the most open (and front like the others).  but I think I've heard it like that in casual speech.


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## missTK

"deg" pronounced like "die" in Eastern dialects sounds very wrong to me, when I pronounce just that word and think about it. But I think in normal conversation, it might sometimes comes close for some speakers (I have a hunch you might hear it from upper class girls from certain areas, but I have no real evidence for this). It's not the standard pronunciation, though.


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## Tech12

I think "die" would be closer to the Danish pronunciation.


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## mezzoforte

By *die*, I mean the first vowel is a front open vowel (I think I said this already).  Don't you ever say or hear *deg* like this?  (Equivalently, I hear *meg* as the English *my*.)

I feel like I hear this a lot, in speech, music.

Could this just be an easier/lazier/nicer-sounding way to say this, so it might come up in conversation or in singing?  (... like how in English, we often say "_*-ing*_" words like "_*-in*_", which is easier/lazier and sometimes nicer-sounding for song.)


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## kirsitn

No, deg and meg are never pronounced like English die/my. English "my" is equivalent to Norwegian "mai", which is the month of May.


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## mezzoforte

kirsitn said:


> No, deg and meg are never pronounced like English die/my. English "my" is equivalent to Norwegian "mai", which is the month of May.



I disagree, because in Norwegian, *a* is a back vowel.  For example, compare the Norwegian *hai* and the English *hi*.

On the other hand, *i,e,æ* are front vowels (from closed to near open), and I thought that _perhaps _we could use a front open vowel (like in *hi,my*), to say *meg*.


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## KireNaj

I believe kirsitn (post # 13) is right; “meg”/”deg” should not be pronounced as “my”/“die”. I think if they are, that would betray a slight foreign accent. It’s perfectly common to hear it, though, but not from native speakers.


Mezzoforte: It could also easily be what you _thought_ you heard, as the difference is reletively subtle. Your comparison of the Norwegian “hai” and the English “hi” illustrates the point beautifully, as most Norwegians would not likely be able to detect any difference at all between those two.

  As to your original question, I’m sorry I don’t have the phonetic name for the first vowel sound.


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## mezzoforte

thx to all....

P.S. The other difference between *hai *and *hi* is that the diphthong is said faster in Norwegian, I believe....
It's actually sort of a debate how to classify those "diphthongs"-like things in English (also, for words like *no*, which end in a *w*), because it's not so much a diphthong as it is our lazy way of ending words that end in a vowel!


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## mezzoforte

Actually, could some of you listen to the man's pronunciation of *nei* here http://norskklassen.crabdance.com/sounds-t.htm

It sounds like the same diphthong as in the English *nice*.  It doesn't sound like the English *nay*.  Do you think he is saying it like *næi*??


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> It sounds like the same diphthong as in the English *nice*.  It doesn't sound like the English *nay*.  Do you think he is saying it like *næi*??



It's not the same diphthong as in "nice", nor as in "nay" - neither of which it should be. But the sound wasn't very good, so it might be a bit difficult to determine. He does more or less say "næi", as he should.


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## kirsitn

mezzoforte said:


> I disagree, because in Norwegian, *a* is a back vowel.  For example, compare the Norwegian *hai* and the English *hi*.



Yes, there's a subtle difference between English hi and Norwegian hai, but I believe it's mainly caused by the Norwegian word having a short diphtong. At least I'm not able to say the English hi with a short diphtong. And in either case, neither Norwegian hai nor English hi should be used as the diphtong in deg/meg unless you want to sound like you're a Pakistani learning Norwegian as second language. (Nothing wrong with being Pakistani, but I assume that that's not the accent you're aiming for.)


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> It's not the same diphthong as in "nice", nor as in "nay" - neither of which it should be. But the sound wasn't very good, so it might be a bit difficult to determine. He does more or less say "næi", as he should.



Could you please also listen to his *æ *example, *tær*.  Is he saying the *æ* normally?  I think I just solved my problem, which is that I _hear _the Norwegian *æ* like an open front vowel!  I think it's because you (Norwegians) don't open your mouth as much as we do... like in the word *cat*, we open our mouth wide...!

My theory is that we do this because we have to distinguish open and near-open front vowels (e.g. *car, cat*... I can't think of a minimal pair right now), so we use "wide open" and "almost wide open" mouth shapes to help in hearing the difference!

The Norwegian *æ* doesn't sound right to me with the mouth stretched so wide open like in English (_do you agree?_).  But since you don't have an open front vowel to distinguish from *æ* (as we do in English), you don't have to open your mouth so dramatically to make the contrast!!! (except when saying *aeee *for the doctor)

The end.


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## basslop

About *nei*: In "Norskklassen" I would also say it is not like "nay". On the othe other it is not quite a 100% stright (Norwegian) æ-i sound. It is a little touch of e-i in it too, although mainly æ-i. Some dialects, like Trøndelag and Northern Norway have a 50-50 mix betwwen e-i and æ-i.

Also in many dialects in Eastern Norway, *nei* is pronounced with a mixture of a-i and æ-i. So it is more like the English "nay" than the standard Norwegian pronounciation.


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## basslop

mezzoforte said:


> Could you please also listen to his *æ *example, *tær*.  Is he saying the *æ* normally?  I think I just solved my problem, which is that I _hear _the Norwegian *æ* like an open front vowel!  I think it's because you (Norwegians) don't open your mouth as much as we do... like in the word *cat*, we open our mouth wide...!
> 
> My theory is that we do this because we have to distinguish open and near-open front vowels (e.g. *car, cat*... I can't think of a minimal pair right now), so we use "wide open" and "almost wide open" mouth shapes to help in hearing the difference!
> 
> The Norwegian *æ* doesn't sound right to me with the mouth stretched so wide open like in English (_do you agree?_).  But since you don't have an open front vowel to distinguish from *æ* (as we do in English), you don't have to open your mouth so dramatically to make the contrast!!! (except when saying *aeee *for the doctor)
> 
> The end.



I think you may be right. But again there are a lot of different æ sounds in Norwegian, from narrow mouth in Southern Norway to very wide open in parts of Eastern Norway and Trøndelag.


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## mezzoforte

so it's open mouth in Oslo then?  how is it for the sound clip on that website?


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## basslop

mezzoforte said:


> so it's open mouth in Oslo then?  how is it for the sound clip on that website?



I would call it quite open, but not completetly - as for example in my dialect (15 km east of Oslo). We have more open *æ* than in the example, quite like the English cat, bad etc. *

Nei *is an exception. I haven't registered this ai-ish pronouncitation for other words (hei, lei, deg, meg etc). As mentioned previously by someone, that would sound like foreigners not mastering the *æi* sound. I emphasize that I am not a professional, I am just basing this from my own observations. More well-informed people may disagree or hopefully agree - anyone?


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## kirsitn

basslop said:


> Nei [/B]is an exception. I haven't registered this ai-ish pronouncitation for other words (hei, lei, deg, meg etc).



In my dialect we pronounce words with "ei" similar to English vein, bane, sane, but not so with deg/meg/seg - they are pronounced dæ/mæ/sæ.


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## mezzoforte

And with more consonants after, is it somehow "more" like *æ*... as in the word *verden*?  What about a word with *ei* and a consonant cluster after?


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## basslop

mezzoforte said:


> And with more consonants after, is it somehow "more" like *æ*... as in the word *verden*?  What about a word with *ei* and a consonant cluster after?



Whether there are consontants after *ei* or not, it does not make any difference in the prononciation.


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