# clutching a scotch



## TheNameOfAWind

Hi everyone!

A woman, questioned by a police officer, is trying to remember what she saw in a parking lot the night her friend was killed.

_Ansil Merriwether’s navy Cadillac with the dented fender was parked across two spots. *He’d probably been clutching a scotch* when he arrived for drinks with his cronies. _

_La Cadillac blu scuro di Ansil Merriwether col paraurti ammaccato era parcheggiata male e occupava due posti. Probabilmente si era già fatto uno scotch quando era arrivato per bere con i suoi compari. _

*edit*:  Anvil parked the car before he met his friends, and then left the car in the parking lot overnight. She sees  the car in the morning.

"He'd been clutching a scotch" is a way to say that Ansil had been drinking _before  _he arrived at the club? Or it has nothing to do with the whiskey and means something else?

Thank you


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## sorry66

H was holding a 'scotch' (a drink - maybe a bottle) tightly in his hand when he met his friends for a drink. It's just a physical description of what he is carrying in his hand.


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## joanvillafane

I agree with sorry - an assumption that he'd been drinking, based on the way the car was parked (across two spots).


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## TheNameOfAWind

Ok, sorry, I missed one piece of information. The man parked the car before he met his friend for drinking; after that he leaved the car in the parking lot for the night. So my doubt is, is she saying that Anvil had been drinking before he arrived, or that he was physically holding a glass while parking?


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## joanvillafane

"clutching" means "holding" but it's still a supposition.  Neither the woman nor the police offier (nor you nor I) were there at the time he parked the car.


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## TheNameOfAWind

Thank you


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## ohbice

_Probabilmente aveva in mano una bottiglia di whiskey _ha lo stesso significato di _Probabilmente si era scolato un bottiglia _(o comunque una buona quantità) _di whiskey_... almeno a mio parere. 
Ultimissima cosa: _era parcheggiata male e occupava due posti _mi sembra un po' ridondante... forse direi _era parcheggiata su due spazi, a cavallo di due spazi._
Ciao 
p


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## TheNameOfAWind

Sulla cosa del parcheggio, come darti torto 

Sul resto, opterò per qualcosa di vago. Non parla di bottiglie, mi sembra, no?


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## tsoapm

TheNameOfAWind said:


> si era già fatto uno scotch


Ah, si può dire? Pensavo che lo Scotch® fosse il vostro Sellotape®. Cosa che mi fa sempre sorridere quando lo sento.


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## ohbice

TheNameOfAWind said:


> Non parla di bottiglie, mi sembra, no?


Sì, sì, "probabilmente aveva del whiskey".
Magari una lattina


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## tsoapm

Non è neanche impossibile, sai... però, anche un bicchiere, come ha detto prima.


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## ohbice

Ciao Mark, tutto è possibile (in questo caso si tratta di una ricostruzione a posteriori, quindi sono tutte ipotesi). Magari le difficoltà nel parcheggio sono dovute proprio al fatto che aveva in mano un bicchiere, e quindi faticava a manovrare 
Solo, a me sembra più probabile che avesse in mano una bottiglia: non so perché ma anche l'idea di una borraccetta non riesce a convincermi del tutto.
A meno che il testo non dica, da qualche parte, che era un bevitore non occasionale.
Ciao 
p


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## TheNameOfAWind

Purtroppo sto facendo una prova di traduzione, quindi del testo ho solo le prima pagine 
Sul fatto che è tutta una supposizione siamo d'accordo, il mio dubbio era più che altro sui tempi verbali. Per capirci, se questo whiskey l'aveva tenuto in mano un po' troppo  _prima  _di arrivare nel parcheggio, oppure se ce l'aveva in mano mentre parcheggiava.

Opterò per qualcosa di colorito e glisserò sulla questione bicchiere/bottiglia/borraccia (guidare con un bicchiere in mano mi suona strano pure per un alcolizzato, arrivare a un club esclusivo con una bottiglia di whiskey altrettanto, ma forse un po' meno). In italiano però la metonimia è usata quasi esclusivamente per indicare il bicchiere. Se io dico "aveva una vodka in mano", immagino una persona con un bicchiere di vodka, non con una bottiglia intera. In inglese va bene anche per indicare la bottiglia?



tsoapm said:


> Ah, si può dire? Pensavo che lo Scotch® fosse il vostro Sellotape®. Cosa che mi fa sempre sorridere quando lo sento.



Whiskey è molto più comune, ma ordinare uno scotch al bar non è una cosa stranissima


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## sorry66

TheNameOfAWind said:


> He’d probably been clutching a scotch


He could be holding a glass or a bottle!



TheNameOfAWind said:


> Per capirci, se questo whiskey l'aveva tenuto in mano un po' troppo _prima _di arrivare nel parcheggio, oppure se ce l'aveva in mano mentre parcheggiava.


We don't really know, we only know that he was holding it when he arrived at his club or wherever he met his friends.


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## ohbice

Da quando si sa che il luogo d'incontro era un club esclusivo? Nell'o.p. questo particolare è stato colpevolmente taciuto!!!
;-)


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## MR1492

sorry66 said:


> He could be holding a glass or a bottle!
> 
> 
> We don't really know, we only know that he was holding it when he arrived at his club or wherever he met his friends.



I am totally in agreement with sorry66 here.  When I first read the OP, my thought was of someone in a Cadillac with a glass of Scotch whiskey in his hand (stringendo forte un bicchiere di Scotch whiskey nel mano???).

Phil


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## tsoapm

TheNameOfAWind said:


> Se io dico "aveva una vodka in mano", immagino una persona con un bicchiere di vodka, non con una bottiglia intera. In inglese va bene anche per indicare la bottiglia?


To me it seems the same in English. I wouldn't think of a bottle of scotch (uncountable) as "a scotch", but a multitude of potential scotches ("portions" of scotch, countable)!


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## london calling

ohbice said:


> Sì, sì, "probabilmente aveva del whiskey".


No. Il _whisk*e*y_ è irlandese. Lo 'scotch'  è scozzese: _whisky_.


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## tsoapm

I thought of mentioning that, but I imagine the distinction in spelling isn't followed with the Italian loanword.


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## TheNameOfAWind

tsoapm said:


> To me it seems the same in English. I wouldn't think of a bottle of scotch (uncountable) as "a scotch", but a multitude of potential scotches ("portions" of scotch, countable)!



Now I'm confused and want to win this job just to ask the author about this scotch 



tsoapm said:


> I thought of mentioning that, but I imagine the distinction in spelling isn't followed with the Italian loanword.


It should and it is, actually, but it really depends on the rules of the specific editor.


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## london calling

tsoapm said:


> I thought of mentioning that, but I imagine the distinction in spelling isn't followed with the Italian loanword.


It had to be pointed out. They wouldn't have said 'scotch' in the original sentence if they hadn't meant 'whisky' and not 'whiskey'. And of course'bourbon' is different again.


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## MR1492

london calling said:


> No. Il _whisk*e*y_ è irlandese. Lo 'scotch'  è scozzese: _whisky_.



Or as Steely Dan say, "Drink Scotch whisky all night long and die behind the wheel."  In AE, we often use "Scotch whiskey" even though the correct is as LC wrote.

Phil


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## london calling

Steely Dan: I adore them. And they were right. Scotch Whisk*e*y is almost....offensive.


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## sorry66

I think if someone said 'he was a holding a scotch in his hand' without any context, I would think of  a glass.
But given that the person arrives somewhere with a scotch, I  say it could just as likely be a bottle. You don't generally walk down the street or across a car park with a glass in your hand.


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## MR1492

sorry66 said:


> You don't generally walk down the street or across a car park with a glass in your hand.



You probably haven't been to Fantasy Fest in Key West, Florida or Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Louisiana.  

Phil


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## london calling

sorry66 said:


> I think if someone said 'he was a holding a scotch in his hand' without any context, I would think of  a glass.
> But given that the person arrives somewhere with a scotch, I  say it could just as likely be a bottle. You don't generally walk down the street or across a car park with a glass in your hand.


I think of a glass. not of a bottle, personally.


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## sorry66

MR1492 said:


> You probably haven't been to Fantasy Fest in Key West, Florida or Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Louisiana.


Nope!


london calling said:


> I think of a glass. not of a bottle, personally.


In general so would I! So nothing about this situation makes you think a bottle might be possible? We can't rule out the possibility. And 'clutching' seems more appropriate for a bottle, somehow - depends on the type of glass, though!


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## london calling

MR1492 said:


> You probably haven't been to Fantasy Fest in Key West, Florida or Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Louisiana.
> 
> Phil


Quite.


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## bobes

La macchina però aveva il paraurti ammaccato... questo era il motivo per cui ha parcheggiato con in mano lo scotch. Ha parcheggiato male perchè era agitato (chissà forse aveva investito qualcuno?)... to clutch =  to take or try to take hold of something tightly, usually in *fear, worry, or pain*: era una bottiglia, nascosta nella classica busta di carta, comprata al volo.


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## london calling

Per me ' clutching a scotch' non vuol dire una bottiglia, vuol dire un bicchiere. Se no avrebbe detto 'clutching a bottle of scotch'.


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## TheNameOfAWind

bobes said:


> La macchina però aveva il paraurti ammaccato... questo era il motivo per cui ha parcheggiato con in mano lo scotch. Ha parcheggiato male perchè era agitato (chissà forse aveva investito qualcuno?)... to clutch =  to take or try to take hold of something tightly, usually in *fear, worry, or pain*: era una bottiglia, nascosta nella classica busta di carta, comprata al volo.


 
Saresti un ottimo detective  Ma no, è solo un tipo sbronzo che ha parcheggiato a casaccio. 



london calling said:


> Per me ' clutching a scotch' non vuol dire una bottiglia, vuol dire un bicchiere. Se no avrebbe detto 'clutching a bottle of scotch'.



Eh. Anche a me suona molto strano riferito a una bottiglia.


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## bobes

Ma non si può guidare, da soli, con in mano un bicchiere! Neanche in un romanzo


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## sorry66

Yes, but the woman is upset and might just have omitted to be precise and say 'a bottle of..'.
On the other hand, if he's a 'sbronzo' he could have poured himself a whisky in the car and then walked in with it! He may even have parked badly because he was desperate for another drink.


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## TheNameOfAWind

sorry66 said:


> Yes, but the woman is upset and might just have omitted to be precise and say 'a bottle of..'.
> On the other hand, if he's a 'sbronzo' he could have poured himself a whisky in the car and then walked in with it! He may even have parked badly because he was desperate for another drink.



Everything is possible  
p.s. note that there's not such thing as "a sbronzo" in Italian. Unlike the English "drunk", "sbronzo" (just like "ubriaco") can only refer to the state of a person who is drunk at that very moment. To indicate a person who is usually or often drunk we say "ubriacone" or "alcolizzato".


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## london calling

sorry66 said:


> Yes, but the woman is upset and might just have omitted to be precise and say 'a bottle of..'.


I disagree with that, sorry. We are just looking at the words. I still think it means 'a glass' in the context we have, even if he he probably was totally pissed, given the way he parked.


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## tsoapm

london calling said:


> It had to be pointed out. They wouldn't have said 'scotch' in the original sentence if they hadn't meant 'whisky' and not 'whiskey'.


Beh, since the OP doesn't say either 'whisky' or 'whiskey', I thought we were on the cusp of being OT, but evidently not. 


TheNameOfAWind said:


> it really depends on the rules of the specific editor


Now this intrigues me: what happens if the editor _doesn't_ make the proper distinction? Just make an arbitrary decision between the two?


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## Pietruzzo

My silly question of the day. If Anvil had been driving with a glass/bottle in one of his hands shouldn't have the woman said "he was clutching..." in place of "he had been clutching..."?. Could "clutching a scotch" be a colourful way to say "he had drunk whysky "?
In any case this is the only thing which makes sense IMO, unless the woman knew it was a peculiar Anvil's habit to drive with bottles or glasses in his hands.


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## sorry66

_Ansil Merriwether’s navy Cadillac with the dented fender was parked across two spots. *He’d probably been clutching a scotch* when he arrived for drinks with his cronies. _
@Pietruzzo 
For a regular drunk, you might say something like 'I saw Ansil last night, _glass in hand_, as usual'. 'Clutching a scotch' isn't a regular metaphor. 'Clutching' does suggest, however, that he was holding it tightly because it was precious to him.
I think the suggestion is that the Ansil needs his liqueur and it wouldn't surprise the woman if he had been holding some such drink as scotch. She also concluded that from the irregular parking, and we can conclude from the dented fender that he often drives carelessly.
Re: the tenses
You're assuming the the 'arrived' means 'arrived at the parking lot' which is fair enough. Then it would be 'He was...'.
I was assuming 'arrived' referred to him entering the club/venue. 'He'd been...' means that  he was holding the scotch at some point, before entering the building. 
So he may or may not have been holding the scotch in the car, but by all means, it's fair to assume it, given the way he parked.


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