# Ukrainian: учити vs. учитися



## mateo19

Hello everyone,

I have a question about the verbs учити & учитися.  I learned that учити means «to teach» and « учитися» «to learn» / «to study».  Thus, я вчуся української мови, отже я студент.  But, я вчу мого студента українську мову, отже я вчитель.  (Please feel free to correct all my mistakes.  I’m hear to get rid of all my incorrect ideas.)  Now I'll show you why I'm confused.  My Ukrainian friend has written this to me.  She didn't use the verb reflexively:

Я зараз вчу англійську мову, завтра заняття в університеті!

And then another contact wrote this to me :

А болгарську вчу по програмі, нам вона випала - інші групи вчать польську, сербську.

To which I replied :

Це дурне питання, але я хочу бути певний. Ти вчиш болгарську мову (не вчишся її)... Ти вчителька, ні студентка, так? Бо ти молода, і вже працюєш вчителькою?

There is another reason for my confusion.  In Slovak (a language which I know much better than Ukrainian) “učiť” only means to teach and “učit sa” only means to learn / to study.
Učím slovenčinu na univerzite, som profesor. vs. Učím sa po slovensky, som študent. (Or even, musím sa učiť celý večer, mám zajtra veľkú skúšku. – I have to study all evening, I have a big test tomorrow.)

So, please tell me, what is the deal in Ukrainian?  Thank you very much for your answers!


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## slavic_one

Hello Mateo!
I, unfortunately, don't speak Ukrainian, but if it's same as Russian, maybe I can help:
In Russian, _учить_ is both _to study_ and _to teach_, while _учиться_ is also _to study_, but it's used in context of studying on college: Я учусь на университете. (I'm on uni/college), while non-reflexively can be: Вчера я учил украинский два часа. (Yesterday I was learning Ukrainian for two hours.)
For learning languages on some courses, or alone at home, but for longer period (few monts..) it's more often used: изучать (Я изучаю украинский язык на университете/в школе яазыков - I'm learning Ukrainian on uni/at language courses).

Just for the record, in BCS _učiti_ means both teach and study in any case. _Učiti se_ is used for sth like: I'm learning to drive/to work/to play sth.... but not for subjects in school, lngs and so on.. (like in Slovak or Czech).


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## Natabka

Ох, що мені робити? 
Mateo, I have no idea whether I'll be able to explain that! There are so many words connected with studying/learning/teaching: вчити(ся) (=учити(ся)), навчати, вивчати, etc.

First of all, Slavic_one is right: *вчити(учити)* means _both_ "learn" and "teach" and *вчитися(учитися)* is _only _"to learn, study".



"Вчити" and "вчитися" in the meaning "to learn" are used differently:

вчити (to learn) + object in accusative case

Я зараз вчу англійську мову. - I study English now. (It can't be Continuous, it means "at this period of life", something like that. Is it ok to use "now" in this case?)

вчитися + object in genitive case _or_ infinitive

Я вчуся музики. - I study music.
Я вчуся вишивати. - literally "I learn to embroider". 

Though they are synonyms there seems to be a difference in what activities you "вчиш" and what "вчишся". I would use only "вчити" in "to learn languages" and "вчитися" when speaking about something you learn doing with your hands, that requires physical action, something you learn "how to do it" (naturally, since only "вчитися" can be followed by a verb-object )



Also when you study at university/college/school, "вчитися" is used:

i.e. вчитися в університеті (to study at university)



Another point is perfective-imperfective forms:
Imperfective: *вчити *(1.to teach, 2. to learn) 
Perfective: навчити (1.), вивчити (2.) 

Imperfective: *вчитися *(to learn)
Perfective: навчитися

Synonyms:
вчити (to teach) - навч*А*ти (cf. perfective form of "вчити" - "навч*И*ти")
вчити (to learn) - вивчАти (rus "изучать")

__________________________________ Some corrections:

Slavic_one wrote: Я учусь на  (on) университете. Correct preposition is "в" (in).

Mateo wrote:
Я вчуся української мови, отже я студент.  (correct case)
But, Я вчу мого студента українську мову, отже я вчитель. (incorrect case)

*вчити *(t*o learn*) + *accusative case* (я вчу українську мову (myself))
------ (*to teach*) + *genitive case* (я вчу (навчаю) студента української мови (cf. Я вчуся української мови))

What a monstrous language, huh?


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## slavic_one

Natabka said:
			
		

> (...)"вчитися" when speaking about something you learn doing with your hands, that requires physical action, something you learn "how to do it" (naturally, since only "вчитися" can be followed by a verb-object )


That's what I tried to say for "učiti se" in BCS - for physical actions (voziti, raditi, kuhati - drive, work, cook...).



			
				Natabka said:
			
		

> __________________________________ Some corrections:
> 
> Slavic_one wrote: Я учусь на  (on) университете. Correct preposition is "в" (in).


Yes


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## mateo19

Sorry for the delay in my reply.

Slavic One and Natalka, thank you very much for your answers!   So, in conclusion, what can we conclude?  My Ukrainian pen pals are going to be confused when I asked them whether or not they are teaching the class or taking the class as students?  I'm still waiting for their reply on this topic.  You know another reason I was confused?  Natalka here, our very own Natalka, was both taking classes and student teaching, so I thought my other Ukrainian friends could be doing the same...  That is a fair deduction.

So, in all the cases, those girls are simply learning those languages, but with a non-relexive verb?

Thanks for the corrections are well...  I thought that maybe it would be genitive if you were learning it and accusitive if you were teaching it!  Just look at how the mind of a non native speaker works. 

Finally, about university... My textbook gives в, but I swear reading somewhere that it could also take на and that it was an East-Western Ukrainian distinction.  But now I can't find the info.  Slavic One, in my dear Slovak it is na.
i.e. Idem na univerzitu - I'm going to the university (accusitive),
Som teraz na univerzite - Now I am at the university (locative).


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## slavic_one

Natabka said:
			
		

> *вчити *(t*o learn*) + *accusative case* (я вчу українську мову (myself))
> ------ (*to teach*) + *genitive case* (я вчу (навчаю) студента української мови (cf. Я вчуся української мови))



I just noticed... isn't _української мови_ *dative* (or *lokative* ), not genitive?


@Mateo:
You're welcome (if I helped at all)!
Yes, I think they're probably just learning at the uni. But can be both.
I know in Slovak (as well as in Croatian) is "na", that's why I made a mistake in Russian


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## mateo19

Here you go, Slavic One!  Don't worry, that really was in the genitive.  It takes a while to recognize some of the less common cases.  It was hard for me to learn too!

NOM - українська мова
GEN  - української мови
DAT  - українській мові
ACC  - українську мову
INS   - українською мовою
LOC  - українській мові

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_grammar

I think I'll stick with "я вивчаю українську мову" since it uses the accusative and not "я вчуся української мови" since the genitive is a bit harder. 

But in any event, those girls who sent me those messages are definitely *studying* those languages and not *teaching* them, right?  I mean there's no doubt in your mind that that is what they want to say?  Sorry I didn't make that question clearer earlier on.  Take care!


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## slavic_one

Oh I see.. cool, I just learnt how to pronounce Ukrainian letter  It's more like Polish and Czech than Russian. Only I don't know what they meant by :
*в* обозначает не лабиодентальный звук [v] (который образуется смыканием нижней губы с верхними зубами), а билабиальный [ʋ] (образуется смыканием губ);
It's more like "b" or what?

About your question.. I think it can be both, but first that crossed my mind is that they probably only studying, not teaching others.


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## Natabka

mateo19 said:


> But in any event, those girls who sent me those messages are definitely *studying* those languages and not *teaching* them, right?  I mean there's no doubt in your mind that that is what they want to say?  Sorry I didn't make that question clearer earlier on.  Take care!





			
				slavic_one said:
			
		

> About your question.. I think it can be both, but first that crossed my mind is that they probably only studying, not teaching others.



Well, there was no doubt in _my _mind that they are definitely *studying* and not *teaching*. It's funny but I didn't even realise how confusing this "вчити" may be before Mateo asked one of his usual controversial questions. 
Probably, it wasn't confusing to me because there always was some context to help. i.e. If you are *studying* something, you use just "вчити"+ name of the subject you are studying. If you *teach* somebody, then you use "вчити" + кого (person you are teaching) + що (name of the subject). Oh, and the most usual way to say that you teach is to do it with a noun: Я - *вчитель*. Я працюю вчителем. (I work as a teacher.) It's for schools. For higher educational establishments the title is "*викладач*" (professor). And you may also say: "Я *викладаю *англійську(accusative)." - "I teach (as a professor) English". 

(Mateo, bravo for the declination! )



			
				slavic_one said:
			
		

> I just learnt how to pronounce Ukrainian letter  It's more like Polish and Czech than Russian. Only I don't know what they meant by :
> *в* обозначает не лабиодентальный звук [v] (который образуется смыканием нижней губы с верхними зубами), а билабиальный [ʋ] (образуется смыканием губ);
> It's more like "b" or what?



So what was the letter? "*в*"? If so than it is exactly labiodental (lower lip to your upper teeth)! And it's the same as in Russian or similar to English 'v'. Bilabial [ʋ] is 'б' (English 'b', Russian 'б'). Where have you seen that explanation?


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## slavic_one

Natabka said:


> So what was the letter? "*в*"? If so than it is exactly labiodental (lower lip to your upper teeth)! And it's the same as in Russian or similar to English 'v'. Bilabial [ʋ] is 'б' (English 'b', Russian 'б'). Where have you seen that explanation?



Yes, в. Ok then no problem. I found it on Wikipedia and just that confused me:
в обозначает *не лабиодентальный звук* [v] (который образуется смыканием *нижней губы с верхними зубами*), а билабиальный [ʋ] (образуется *смыканием губ*);
So it's incorrect?


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## Natabka

Yes, that is incorrect description of "в" in Ukrainian. It should be vice versa. Hmm, and I always trusted Wikipedia.. 

But, hey! Here's the article that I've found on Russian Wiki and it's correct!


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## slavic_one

Allright, thank you Natabka!


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