# Translation and phrasing of Biblical text



## tjodalv43

Greetings!

I am planning on getting a tattoo of a Greek verse but want to make sure it says what I think it says! The text is from the Bible, John 15:13. I have looked over many sites with the original text and found this seems to be the consensus:


        μείζονα ταύτης
     ἀγάπην οὐδεὶς ἔχει
  ἵνα τις τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ 
θῇ ὑπὲρ τῶν φίλων αὐτοῦ

First, I just would like a native speaker to confirm that this accurately translates to the English version, something like "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends". Secondly, I was hoping someone could make sure the phrasing is somewhat logical per line, when read in Greek. What I mean is I don't want it to translate to something like:

      Greater love hath
         no man than
This, that a man lay down his
       Life for his friends.

But logical like

          Greater love
    Hath no man than this
That a man lay down his life
         For his friends

I ask because I want it in 4 rows to be somewhat symmetric and aesthetically pleasing, but still make sense! I don't want to be like one of those people that gets a tatto of a Chinese character but doesn't really understand what it means!

EDIT: The text will be centered, not aligned to the left. That's just how the forum ended up displaying what I typed. 

Thanks for the help!


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## sotos

μείζονα ταύτης ἀγάπην οὐδεὶς ἔχει, ἵνα τις τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ θῇ ὑπὲρ τῶν φίλων αὐτοῦ.

ψυχή = soul (metaphorically life)

θῇ = a form of the verb τίθημι (to put, to place). Metaphorically here: to give 
τις = (some)one, somebody.
All together: Greater love Hath no man than this, (so as) to give his life for his friends. 

Some modern Gr. (free) translations explain θῇ into "sacrifice".

You don't have to brake the verse to lines of complete words or making sense. In old Greek texts the words at the end of the line were cut randomly. The important was to align the text left and write.  Here you can form a nice "box" of text.  Also you don't need the spaces between words. This is a later fashion of writting. For more "greek looking", you can write the ου in byzantine style, with an O with a V on the top.

Careful with the ουδείς. The accent is over the ι.

Χαίρε.


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## sotos

And you can write the whole text in capital letters. This will make the tatooer's life easier.  The initial M can be 2 or 3 times bigger than the other letters.


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## tjodalv43

That is very good to know about making the text into a box, instead of breaking it up into phrases like we would in English! That will make it more aesthetic and still be historically accurate it seems!

Could I trouble you to show me what the text would look like in capital letters? 

Thank you so much for the help! This phrase means a lot to me and I appreciate you helping me get it right.


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## soplamocos

Here you can see the alphabet, the first line are the capital letters: Ancient Greek Keyboard Online LEXILOGOS >>
I would write it in capital letters for you, but I realized that I couldn't write well the accent mark, because on the capittal letters it is writen at the left of the letter (that's why some are repeated on the line of that link), but it's when the word start with the capittal... I don't know if you can just write the word in capittal and simply write the accent mark as if the letter was in lower case :/


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## sotos

μείζονα ταύτης
ἀγάπην οὐδεὶς ἔχει
ἵνα τις τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ
θῇ ὑπὲρ τῶν φίλων αὐτοῦ

ΜΕΙΖΟΝΑΤΑΥΤΗΣΑΓΑΠΗΝΟΥΔΕΙΣΕΧΕΙΙΝΑΤΙΣΤΗΝΨΥΧΗΝΑΥΤΟΥΘΗΥΠΕΡΤΩΝΦΙΛΩΝΑΥΤΟΥ.

This is the simplest writting, without aspiration, accents and iota subscript.  It is better though, to write it in byzantine style with some calligraphy, which can be done only by hand. 

Edit: Removed the request for personal information. Please use the "Conversation" feature in the future.


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## tjodalv43

Sorry about that, didn't realize we weren't to post emails! I am attempting to use the conversation feature with sotos, but it is not allowing me. Is there a requirement for being able to start a conversation?


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## sotos

Look this byzantine manuscript. The text is formed in a cross shape.  You can do the same, possibly by adding some decorative patterns.
http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/eik/ippokratis_orkos.jpg


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