# hindi/urdu - future



## tonyspeed

Do you believe that bhavishya and aainda  are common amongst people with minimal education or school age children?

Or would a better alternative for explaining that something will happen in the future be: aage chalkar .... or aage meN ?

Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong about aainda.


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## lcfatima

Aainda is common enough. 'Future' is very common, too. At least in Urdu mustaqbil should be fine, too.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> Do you believe that bhavishya and aainda  are common amongst people with minimal education or school age children?
> 
> Or would a better alternative for explaining that something will happen in the future be: aage chalkar .... or aage meN ?
> 
> Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong about aainda.




I am not sure if I have come across "aage meN" but "ba3d meN" is used most certainly for "future" using simple language.

ibtidaa-i-3ishq hai, rotaa hai kyuuN
aage aage dekhiye hotaa hai kyaa!

(Miir)

As one can see from the above example, "aage" *is *used for the future but it is also used for the past!!

qasam janaaze pih aane kii mere khaate haiN Ghalib
hameshah khaate the jo merii jaan kii qasam aage!

(Ghalib)

aa'indah is used quite frequently by Urdu speakers (even with minimal education). However, it is not as "versatile" as "mustaqbil". I say this because we have such terms as "mustaqbill-qariib" and "mustaqbil ba3iid" for near future and distant future respectively but "aa'indah-qarrib/ba3iid" do not exist.

By the way, in addition to "mustaqbil" which is a participle, we also have the noun "istiqbaal" (though quite rare) used for the future too.

tarjumaan-i-maazii, shaan-i-Haal
jaan-i-istiqbaal....

(From Pakistan's National Anthem)

Interpreter of our past, glory of our present
Inspiration of our future..


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## tonyspeed

Thank you. This is quite informative. Hopefully, the Hindi speakers amongst us can chime in with their thoughts on bhavishya .


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## Faylasoof

tonyspeed said:


> Do you believe that bhavishya and aainda  are common amongst people with minimal education or school age children?
> 
> Or would a better alternative for explaining that something will happen in the future be: aage chalkar .... or aage meN ?
> 
> Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong about aainda.


 Of course!  آینده _aayandah_ / آئندہ _aa’indah _is very common! But we also say _aage chalkar. _

Another way to express the future is the use of _aglaa / agle, e.g. agle hafte woh aarahe haiN = They are / he is (polite form) coming next week = __aayandah hafte woh aarahe haiN_.


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## tonyspeed

bahut shukriya!


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## greatbear

Both "bhavishya meiN" and "aage chal kar" are very common. "Aainda" is used only in the context of threats, coercions, warnings or promises, and isn't used too much outside of that. Never heard "aage meN" and I don't think it would be grammatically correct as well.


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## tonyspeed

greatbear said:


> Both "bhavishya meiN" and "aage chal kar" are very common. "Aainda" is used only in the context of threats, coercions, warnings or promises, and isn't used too much outside of that.




Remember, the question I was asking was not about the commonness but about the usage by those with minimal education. It seems from the comments that aage chalkar would be the safest bet as aaindaa would be more urdu leaning it would seem for certain people in India..


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## nineth

The question in the original post is about whether those words are common amongst people with minimal education or with children. My answer is a No. They are normally not easily recognized by most children less than 9 years old. This is from my experience (I grew up speaking Hindi -- since I was four years old, and spoke more of Hindi than any other language). Aage meN is not really correct style and no native speaker would use it. _Aage chalkar_ or better _aage chaltey huey_ are ok, but still may not be within reach of kids or those with that level of Hindi. The best I can think of is "_Ab say"_ - it translates to _from now _or _now on_.

Also, as _@greatbear_ points out, _aainda_ is almost always used in a context where you ask someone to not do something he has been doing or has done; or if you regret doing something and/or would like to correct/change this/something in future. I'm not sure if it's even used formally in written form. I personally find the word far from elegant.


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## tonyspeed

nineth said:


> I personally find the word far from elegant.



I think aage meN may be the wrong wording. I was trying to remember something I saw in the dictionary once. 

Be careful about judging the elegance of certain words. You may offend some of our Urdu speakers here. Elegance is very subjective. 
Words are for communication and understanding. Beauty and all other such things are secondary matters left to poets and bade log.

Thanks for your second opinion.


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## greatbear

tonyspeed said:


> Be careful about judging the elegance of certain words. You may offend some of our Urdu speakers here. Elegance is very subjective.



However, it is not Urdu but Hindi that some of us are talking about, since the thread title invites opinions from the speakers of both. In Hindi, I agree, "aaindaa" would not be elegant at all (in addition to it being used in only very specific contexts).


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## nineth

tonyspeed said:


> Be careful about judging the elegance of certain words. You may offend some of our Urdu speakers here. Elegance is very subjective.



@tonyspeed, as @greatbear points out very well, I'm just giving you my opinion on what an elegant construction here is (in Hindi). We need to worry about elegant constructions in day-to-day communication so that information is conveyed accurately, without ambiguity, and in a manner that doesn't sound awkward when talking to native speakers. It is this meaning that I had in mind - so it's not just for prose or poetry. So, when I say a word is not elegant, the question of offense or whether it's a loan-word should not even arise.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> Both "bhavishya meiN" and "aage chal kar" are very common. "Aainda" is used only in the context of threats, coercions, warnings or promises, and isn't used too much outside of that. Never heard "aage meN" and I don't think it would be grammatically correct as well.




Here are a few examples of the use of "आइन्दा" in Hindi.

आइन्दा कुछ मिनट उसने ताले को खोलने की कोशिशों में गुजारे लेकिन कामयाबी हासिल न हुई। (From paaNch paapii, by Surendra Mohan Pathak)

(The next few minutes he spent...)

आइन्दा जब भी चुनाव होंगे ..(www.pravakta.com)

(In the future, whenever there are elections..)

_आइन्दा दिनों में_ उसे अपने  होटल का बिल भरना भी दूभर लग सकता था। ((From paaNch paapii, by Surendra Mohan Pathak)

(In the coming days...)


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> Also, as _@greatbear_ points out, _aainda_ is almost always used in a context where you ask someone to not do something he has been doing or has done; or if you regret doing something and/or would like to correct/change this/something in future. I'm not sure if it's even used formally in written form. I personally find the word far from elegant.




I have already provided examples of "आइन्दा" from Hindi in another post. It is certainly found in abundance on the net. As for its "elegance", that is of course your personal choice. It is a common word in everyday Urdu speech and in its literature. In poetry, it is rhymed with words like "zindah", "sharmindah", "parindah" etc. I presume these words might also fall in your "far from elegant" category(?).

kab xud se sharmindah haiN ham
qandiil-i-aa'indah haiN ham (qandiil=candle)
zindah the zindah haiN ham

 Here is one example of how "Khudaa-i-suxan" himself has used it in a memorable shi3r.

3iid-i-aa'indah tak rahe gaa gilah 
3iid ke din bhii tuu gale nah milaa 

Miir


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## nineth

QURESHPOR said:


> kab xud se sharmindah haiN ham
> qandiil-i-aa'indah haiN ham (qandiil=candle)



Depends on the context; in this context, it's beautiful. The original post asks for its use in future tense in regular communication; not in poetry or in general. Also, my comment was evidently in relation to Hindi. Reg. the other Hindi sentences you posted that use _aainda_, the second one is ok, but the first and last ones, *in my view*, are very painful to read! The following simple changes make them better* for me**:* आइन्दा कुछ minut -> Kuch aur minut, आइन्दा _दिनों ->Aane walay dinoN  _(assuming it fits the context). So, my response and advice to the original post remains the same.


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> Depends on the context; in this context, it's beautiful. The original post asks for its use in future tense in regular communication; not in poetry or in general. Also, my comment was evidently in relation to Hindi. Reg. the other Hindi sentences you posted that use _aainda_, the second one is ok, but the first and last ones, *in my view*, are very painful to read! The following simple changes make them better* for me**:* आइन्दा कुछ minut -> Kuch aur minut, आइन्दा _दिनों ->Aane walay dinoN  _(assuming it fits the context). So, my response and advice to the original post remains the same.




I posted the three sentences for two reasons. One, to illustrate for greatbear and your benefit the wider context in which Hindi writers are employing "aainda" and secondly, to answer your comment, "I'm not sure if it's even used formally in written form". Now if two out of three examples are "very painful to read", then to seek out fluent and elegant examples within the body of Hindi literature was not a straightforward task for me. Perhaps someone with a greater knowledge of Hindi literature might be able to provide some elegant useages of the word in question. The Urdu couplets were quoted with this in mind. Urdu critics consider Miir to be the master of the language.

"We need to worry about elegant constructions in day-to-day communication  so that information is conveyed accurately, without ambiguity, and in a  manner that doesn't sound awkward when talking to native speakers. It  is this meaning that I had in mind - so it's not just for prose or  poetry".

The original query did not go into elegance, awkwardness, precision or ambiguity of "aainda" or "bhavishya". So, all this is just no more than a tangential exercise. IMHO, "aainda" is elegant, far from awkward, precise and unambiguous. The way "aa'indah" is quoted in the Urdu couplets is exactly the same way we use "aa'indah" in everyday speech.

Of course, one can come up with suitable synonyms for "aainda", "bhavishya" or almost any other word. But "kuchh aur minaT" is not the same as "aainda kuchh minaT". The former would translate as, " A few more minutes" and not "The next few minutes".


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## nineth

QURESHPOR said:


> The original query did not go into elegance, awkwardness, precision or ambiguity of "aainda" or "bhavishya".



That's implied; I would keep those aspects in mind when advising. You are probably reading too much into and misinterpreting what I meant by elegant. Let me put it this way once and for all: "*Using aainda in Hindi is not elegant at all in my opinion*". The fact that you found those sentences doesn't change my opinion a bit nor does it mean anything to me. If you fetch the author who wrote those and confront him with me, I would still tell him that he should avoid those. Again, that's my opinion and I do think most native speakers will agree with me; even if they don't, I don't see my opinion changing.


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> That's implied; I would keep those aspects in mind when advising. You are probably reading too much into and misinterpreting what I meant by elegant. Let me put it this way once and for all: "*Using aainda in Hindi is not elegant at all in my opinion*". The fact that you found those sentences doesn't change my opinion a bit nor does it mean anything to me. If you fetch the author who wrote those and confront him with me, I would still tell him that he should avoid those. Again, that's my opinion and I do think most native speakers will agree with me; even if they don't, I don't see my opinion changing.



That's fair enough. Would you find "bhavishya" in these kinds of sentences elegant? If yes, why?


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## Faylasoof

We are once again falling into subjective opinions here! Where I come from – or rather the regions of UP and Bihar my family and I are associated with – _aaindaa / __aa'indah / __aayandah_ is used commonly by both Urdu and Hindi speakers.  _bhavishya_ is also used but by those leaning towards usage of exclusively Hindi words in speech. Some poeple use both, sometimes in the same breath! Nothing inelegant about the use of _aaindaa_ in common speech. Formal Hindi is a different matter.


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## BP.

greatbear said:


> Both "bhavishya meiN" and "aage chal kar" are very common. "Aainda" is used only in the context of threats, coercions, warnings or promises, and isn't used too much outside of that. Never heard "aage meN" and I don't think it would be grammatically correct as well.



I'm afraid that appears to only be a personal opinion.

 آیندہ seems to be the past participle of آمدن-to come, and its use as 'what is to come' invokes the first half of the concept of رجاء و خوف. In my partisans' understanding, the future only and solely carries hope, while the past happiness, resentment and all other sorts of sentiments. So any word that points to the future automatically becomes optimistic in nature.


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## nineth

_greatbear'_s comment was in the context of Hindi. I myself fully agree with his assessment, and I can also without doubt say that it's not really just the personal opinion of the two of us - that's how _aainda_ is typically used by a large number of native Hindi speakers.


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## BP.

How would an equivalent of 'aanee waalaa' acquire a secondary meaning? It simply has too little import as a word to deserve connotations!


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## souminwé

As a Hindi speaker, the predominant meaning of "_aayinda_" for me is  "hereafter". I feel the connotations that greatbear associates with "_aayinda_" arise  naturally - how often do you really say "from now on" except in threats,  proclamations etc. ? Hindi-speakers most frequently use aayinda as an adverb and an  adjectival use can sound strange and even incorrect. I think with this lack of adjectival usage, the main context of this word is generally along the lines of "aayinda aisa kiya to..!!!".
Perhaps this is why many Hindi-speakers, including myself, do not find any particular elegance in the word _aayinda_.



nineth said:


> I'm not sure if it's even used formally in written form.


I think it is, I've seen it in a decent amount of newspapers:
_
Aasha hai ki aayinda aisi koi aur ghaTna na ho_.
_Ab sirf Gaurtalab hai ki aayinda, Israail-Filistiin sambandh meN kaisa badlaao aayega_.


As for_ bhaviSya_, it was definitely not something I understood as a child, but I think today any school-age child with access to a TV would.


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## Qureshpor

souminwé said:


> As a Hindi speaker, the predominant meaning of "_aayinda_" for me is  "hereafter". I feel the connotations that greatbear associates with "_aayinda_" arise  naturally - how often do you really say "from now on" except in threats,  proclamations etc. ?
> Hindi-speakers most frequently use aayinda as an adverb and an  adjectival use can sound strange and even incorrect. I think with this lack of adjectival usage, the main context of this word is generally along the lines of "aayinda aisa kiya to..!!!".
> Perhaps this is why many Hindi-speakers, including myself, do not find any particular elegance in the word _aayinda_. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I am sure, even in Hindi, it would not be impossible to employ "aaindaa" with happy and pleasant connonations.
> 
> jo kuchh ho gayaa, so ho gayaa; aaindaa se maiN dhan kaa piichhaa karnaa chhoR duuN gaa aur prati-din bhagvaan kii puujaa karuuN gaa aur usii ke guNR gaa'uuN gaa.
> 
> aaindaa ham Bharat ke un hatabhaagya logoN ko nahiiN bhuuleN ge jin ke paas na to khaanaa hai aur na hii un ke bachchoN ke liye paRhaa'ii kaa prabandh hai.
> 
> Strange logic! I can't see why an adjectival use of "aaindaa" would sound strange or incorrect!
> 
> _आइन्दा दिनों में_ उसे अपने  होटल का बिल भरना भी दूभर लग सकता था।
> 
> If you were to substitute an "elegent" word for the "inelegent" aaindaa, what would it be and how would it be elegent?


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## souminwé

No one said it was inelegant. It merely does not possess elegance. How elegant are the words _maiN_ and _tum_? Are they inelegant? No, they ae neither. nineth suggested that _aanevaala_ was  a better alternative to _aayinda_ - and as we know, there is nothing elegant, remarkable or _xaas_ about _aanevaala_. It is simply a difference of preferred use.

Regarding the potential angry nuances of _aayinda_, excuse me, I miscommunicated. I wanted to say that greatbear's view on the usual context of _aayinda_ is one that arises because of the reduced flexibility of _aayinda in_ Hindi, however its usage is not limited to such contexts (I forgot to type this part! Sorry!)

As for your example, I did say Hindi-speakers _most frequently_ use it as an adverb. But try googling "_aayinda saal_" in Devnagri and you'll find the results are mainly Devnagri script Urdu results. For whatever reason,_ aayinda_'s usage has become more restricted in Hindi, although the adjectival usage is undoubtedly understood and used by a minority of people.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to expand my answer to the original question. Nearly all adults, educated to poorly educated, understand _bhaviSya_ and likely use it.


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## greatbear

I am surprised to find this debate still raging on here. I am more suprised to discover that "aayindaa" can also be used as an adjective! Thanks for the enlightenment; however, a Hindi speaker, a normal one, would look at you askance if you were to use it as an adjective, but thanks for the knowledge though.

I still stand by my original comment very much; it's time that some of the Urdu speakers here learn to accept opinions of people who speak Hindi when it comes to Hindi, rather than trying to create a heckle over everything according to their imagined world vision.


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## BP.

BelligerentPacifist said:


> ...
> آیندہ seems to be the past participle of آمدن-to come, and its use as 'what is to come' ...





Here's a correction provided by mukarramii QURESHPOR:


> *... "aa'inday/aayandah" is a present participle  (perhaps more accurately, agential...aane vaalaa; goyandah bolne vaalaa  etc).*



Even I don't trust myself with grammar...hence the "seems to be". Fortunately we have better informed people around.


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## Faylasoof

BP SaaHib, we all welcome your contribution! …and at times we all make mistakes!

Anyway, the forum is for healthy discussions and this thread is a good  example of that so let us continue as long as there are participants  making interesting points!

It is, BTW, also a good example of how a word like _aayindaa_ is  viewed by the various participants. We all have our views and we need to  keep in mind that we are discussing Hindi-Urdu speech which is spread  over a very wide area. This may also be reflected in how we carry out  informal written communication with one another. Often it is difficult  to tell where everyday Hindi ends and Urdu begins - and the reverse.

Just a general point. It is perfectly OK to make our views known as long  as we all remember that we are just expressing an opinion esp. when it  comes to matters of _elegance_ and _inelegance_ of a word ….  and talking of personal opinions, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are  places over this huge area (the Hindi belt) where, depending on the  place we find ourselves, neither _aayindaa_nor _bhaviSya_ are used on a daily basis by the uneducated or the poorly educated.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> I am surprised to find this debate still raging on here. I am more suprised to discover that "aayindaa" can also be used as an adjective! Thanks for the enlightenment; however, a Hindi speaker, a normal one, would look at you askance if you were to use it as an adjective, but thanks for the knowledge though.
> 
> One never stops learning, does one, greatbear? And I would say that all Hindi speakers, just like speakers of any other language, would consider themselves to be quite "normal".
> 
> I still stand by my original comment very much; it's time that some of the Urdu speakers here learn to accept opinions of people who speak Hindi when it comes to Hindi, rather than trying to create a heckle over everything according to their imagined world vision.
> 
> By all means, do stick to your position. It could be that some of the Urdu speakers are doing no more than invoking Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? By doing so, they are attempting to nullify any inaccuracies and possible misunderstandings and prejudices.


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