# Hubiera querido que vinieras conmigo al cine...



## Gamen

I have trouble translating "hubiera" or "hubiese" + (querido) in English in non conditional sentences.
I don't know whether to use "had" or "would have".
I don't know if I can use "want" or just "like".

My example is:
Hubiera querido que vienieras conmigo al cine, pero al final decidiste otra cosa y no te puedo obligar.


My attemps:
I had wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
I would have wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.

I had liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
I would have liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.

I appreciate your help!


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## chileno

Gamen said:


> I have trouble translating "hubiera" or "hubiese" + (querido) in English in non conditional sentences.
> I don't know whether to use "had" or "would have".
> I don't know if I can use "want" or just "like".
> 
> My example is:
> Hubiera querido que vienieras conmigo al cine, pero al final decidiste otra cosa y no te puedo obligar.
> 
> 
> My attemps:
> I had wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> I would have wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> 
> I had liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> I would have liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> 
> I appreciate your help!


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## Chris K

All four of your attempts are acceptable, except for "I had liked you to come," which is not used in modern English. There are slight differences in nuance.


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## Coffeemachtspass

Gamen said:


> I have trouble translating "hubiera" or "hubiese" + (querido) in English in non conditional sentences.
> I don't know whether to use "had" or "would have".
> I don't know if I can use "want" or just "like".
> 
> My example is:
> Hubiera querido que vienieras conmigo al cine, pero al final decidiste otra cosa y no te puedo obligar.
> 
> 
> My attemps:
> I had wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> I would have wanted you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> 
> I had liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> I would have liked you to come with me to the cinema, but in the end you decided something else and I can't force you.
> 
> I appreciate your help!



Gamen,

The versions with "would have" are necessary, and so you are being forced into a construction with the conditional even though you said you were trying to avoid them. At issue is a distinction in Spanish between "yo había querido" and "yo hubiera querido" (and the former is equivalent in Spanish to "yo habría querido", a conditional).

When you say in English, "I had wanted you to come to the movies with me...", you are stating a straightforward fact. = indicative. Yo había querido que fueras conmigo al cine..."

In contrast, your original version in Spanish implies that there were intervening factors that impeded your desire. That's why you've chosen "hubiera/habría querido". The typical, modern construction that gives the same implication is the conditional perfect in English, "I would have wanted you to come to the movies with me...". A simple past perfect in English "I had wanted" is, nowadays, heard to be an indicative. In 19th century English, it wasn't necessarily so.

Cheers


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## Nipnip

_I would have like that you came to the movies with me. _That's how I'd say it.


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## Chris K

Nipnip said:


> _I would have like that you came to the movies with me. _That's how I'd say it.



There are a couple of problems with that version. "Like" would have to be "liked" (even though the "d" may disappear when spoken). And we would have to say "that you had come." But even "I would have liked that you had come" is not natural, at least in US English. You can say "I would have _preferred_ that you had come" or "I would have liked _it if_ you had come."


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## Nipnip

Chris K said:


> There are a couple of problems with that version. "Like" would have to be "liked" (even though the "d" may disappear when spoken). And we would have to say "that you had come." But even "I would have liked that you had come" is not natural, at least in US English. You can say "I would have _preferred_ that you had come" or "I would have liked _it if_ you had come."



Thanks, Chris K. Unfortunately, with the exception of the missing "d" in like, that's how I say it.

I would have hoped that you called me.
She would have expected that you did it right this time.

And so, so on.


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## Gamen

Perfect. Your remarks helped me a lot, chileno, Chris and coffeematchspass.

now, what about saying: "I would have liked" and "I would have wanted". Is one of them more preferable or common than the other?


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## Coffeemachtspass

The grammar structures you'll use with 'like' and 'want' will be a bit different. Here are my attempts, although other posters may come up with better ones.

I would have like *it if* you *had come*. (but, you decided not to.) 

I would have wanted *you to come*. (but, I didn't think to ask you beforehand.)

Both verbs are perfectly ordinary and common in this context.


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## Chris K

Coffeemachtspass said:


> [...]
> 
> I would have like *liked it if* you *had come*. (but, you decided not to.)
> [...]



That "d" just doesn't want to show itself today!

Another option: _I would have liked it had you come._


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## Gamen

The structure you give coffee, "I would have liked *it if* you *had come"* is equivalent to "I would have liked you to come" and "I would have liked that you came/had come" (proposed by nipnip). Is that so?

Regarding Chris' proposal "I would have like it had you come" sounds much more formal, doesn't it?


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## Coffeemachtspass

Gamen said:


> The structure you give coffee, "I would have liked *it if* you *had come" i*s equivalent to "I would have liked you to come" and "I would have liked that you came" (proposed by nipnip). Is that so?



Gamen,
The first one is fine, but the "I would have like that you came" isn't working (at least to my ears).

And, as Chris K pointed out, my computer is 'helping' me with my spelling today. I've caught it at least three times already in the act of editing my carefully crafted sentences. Or maybe I screwed up! Ha, ha!


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## Chris K

Coffeemachtspass said:


> Gamen,
> The first one is fine, but the "I would have liked that you came" isn't working (at least to my ears).
> 
> [...]



No, nor to mine either, unless the person actually did come, and I wound up not liking it because of something that happened that made me change my mind.


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## abb1025

Chris K said:


> No, nor to mine either, unless the person actually did come, and I wound up not liking it because of something that happened that made me change my mind.



I agree. It's also worth noting that in daily speech, most people use simpler verb  constructions than the ones in this thread.

For example:

I really wanted you to come to the cinema with me, but in the end you decided to do something else and I can't force you.

I wish you had chosen to come to the cinema with me, but in the end you decided. . .


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## Gamen

In short:
The structure with "had liked" is not used in Today's English.
The structure "I would have liked that you (had) come" is acceptable but not very common / maybe a little awkward.
The structure "I would have wanted you to come" is acceptable but not very common /maybe a little awkward.
*The structure "I would have wanted that you (had) come" is grammatically incorrect.*

It is more common or natural to say:

"I would have liked you to come" or "I would have preferred that you (had) came" or I would have liked it if you (had) come" or "I would have wanted if you (had) come" or "I would have hoped that you (had) come" or "I would have expected that you (had) come" or "I would have preferred you to come" or "I would have preferred it if you has come", even  "I would have liked it had you come".

Regarding "I had wanted you to come" it has already another status and it would be a wish statement referred to a past prior to another past in indicative mode, but not a wish stricto sensu, expressed in a subjunctive mode, that something that didn't happen it would have happened, as well cofeematchspass suggested.

I wait for your confirmation or dis-confirmation.
Thank you!


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## chileno

Chris K said:


> That "d" just doesn't want to show itself today!
> 
> Another option: _I would have liked it had you come._



To me:

_I would have liked it had you come = Me habría gustado que hubieras venido

_I would have liked you to come with me to the cinema = Me hubiera gustado que vinieras conmigo...


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## Gamen

I wait for confirmation regarding my post 15!
Thank you very much.


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## Gamen

I'd appreciate your confirmation regarding my examples if possible.
Thanks.


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## Coffeemachtspass

Gamen,

I would have liked that you (had) come. [Grammatically fine. Careful speech and writing]
I would have wanted you to come. [Probably the most typical of everyday use. Not awkward.]
I would have wanted that you come. [Grammatical, but high register, academic writing. Awkward.]

I would have liked you to come. [Fine]
I would have preferred that you came. [ungrammatical]
I would have liked it if you come. [ungrammatical]
I would have liked it if you had come. [fine, careful speech and writing]
I would have wanted if you (had) come. [ungrammatical]
I would have hoped that you (had) come. [atypical, but not ungrammatical]
I would have expected that you come. [fine]
I would have preferred you to come. [fine]
I would have preferred it if you HAD come. [fine]
I would have liked it had you come. [fine, careful speech and writing]

I had wanted you to come. = indicative

I will now rest after my labors, Gamen.


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## Gamen

Thank you very much! There were a lot of different ways of saying more  or less the same in English. In Spanish there aren't so many possibilities  or structures.
I still thought of some more.
I think they are all correct, except for 7, 9 and 10.

1) I would have liked that you came. (rather than "come).
2) I would have expected that you came. (rather than "come").
3) I would have expected that you had come.
4) I would have hoped you to come.
5) I would have hoped that you came. (rather than "come").
6) I would have liked that you came. (rather than "come").
7) I would have preferred it if you came. / I would have liked it if you came.
8) I would have wanted that you came. (rather than "come")
9) I would have wanted it if you had come.
10) I had liked you to come = indicative, but not used.

I already used up all the possibilities, every single one of them. LOL


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## Coffeemachtspass

Gamen said:


> Thank you very much! There were a lot of different ways of saying more  or less the same in English. In Spanish there aren't so many possibilities  or structures.
> I still thought of some more.
> I think they are all correct, except for 7, 9 and 10.
> 
> 1) I would have liked that you came. (rather than "come). Ungrammatical
> 2) I would have expected that you came. (rather than "come"). Ungrammatical
> 3) I would have expected that you had come. Passable, better with 'would have come'
> 4) I would have hoped you to come. Ungrammatical
> 5) I would have hoped that you came. (rather than "come"). Ungrammatical [well, now I'm rethinking this one. It could work.]
> 6) I would have liked that you came. (rather than "come"). Ungrammatical
> 7) I would have preferred it if you came. / I would have liked it if you came. Grammatical
> 8) I would have wanted that you came. (rather than "come") Ungrammatical
> 9) I would have wanted it if you had come. Grammatical, but wanted what?
> 10) I had liked you to come = indicative, but not used. Ungrammatical
> 
> I already used up all the possibilities, every single one of them. LOL



Unfortunately, most of these don't work out grammatically. For your information, many American English speakers use 'came' instead of the standard 'come' in the perfect tenses [She had came...]. Be aware of this, but I don't recommend imitating it.


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## Gamen

Ok Coffeematchspass. 
A) You are right, the participle for "to come" comes back to be "come" as in the present. "Came" is just past.

B) I thought it was better to use "came" in: 
I would have expected that you came / I would have liked that you came / I would have wanted that you came
Because the fact of "coming" happens in the past. I mean, "I would have liked that you came yesterday". Or you are referring that the structure is wrong not the verb "to come" in the past?

C) With the verbs "to like", "to prefer", "to hope", "to expect" you can use three different structures:
 "Object + to + verb" 
 "That + object + verb without to" 
"Like/prefer/expect it + if + object + verb"

The examples would be:

Structure 1:
I like you to come alone / I prefer you to come alone / I hope you to come alone / I expect you to come alone.
I would have liked you to come alone / I would have preferred you to come alone / I would have hoped you to come alone / I would have expected you to come alone. (All correct)

Structure 2:
I like that you come alone / *I prefer it that you come alone (I have to add an "it" for the sentence to be correct (?)* / I hope that you come alone / I expect that you come alone.
*I would have preferred/liked that you come/came alone (wrong)*
I would have hoped/expected that you came alone (correct)

Structure 3:
I like it if you come alone / I prefer it if you come alone /* I hope it if you come alone (I see this one is incorrect)* / *I expect it if you come alone* *(Incorrect)*
I would have liked/preferred it if you had (come) alone (correct)
*I would have hoped/expected it if you had come (incorrect)*

D) Regarding the verb "to want", you solely can say:
I want you to come alone.
The other two structures *would be wrong, *namely: "I want that you come alone" and  "I want it if you come". 
However, you can say: *"I would have wanted that you (had) come alone?* or *"I would have wanted you to come alone" *(?)

E) As for my number 9 above, is it incorrect or not?
I would have wanted it if you had come. Grammatical, but wanted what?  (?)

In my 3 sentence, you mean that the most correct option would be: "I would have expected that you would have come" (?)
I would have expected that you had come. Passable, better with 'would have come' 

Thank you.


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## Gamen

I await response regarding my previous post if possible.
Thank you!


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## aloofsocialite

Gamen said:


> Ok Coffeematchspass.
> A) You are right, the participle for "to come" comes back to be "come" as in the present. "Came" is just past.
> 
> B) I thought it was better to use "came" in:
> I would have expected that you came / I would have liked that you came / I would have wanted that you came
> Because the fact of "coming" happens in the past. I mean, "I would have liked that you came yesterday". Or you are referring that the structure is wrong not the verb "to come" in the past?
> 
> C) With the verbs "to like", "to prefer", "to hope", "to expect" you can use three different structures:
> "Object + to + verb"
> "That + object + verb without to"
> "Like/prefer/expect it + if + object + verb"
> 
> The examples would be:
> 
> Structure 1:
> I*'d* like you to come alone / I / *I'd* prefer you to come alone / I hope you to come alone / I expect you to come alone.
> I would have liked you to come alone / I would have preferred you to come alone / I would have hoped *that* you*'d* to *have* come alone / I would have expected you to come alone. (All correct)
> 
> Structure 2:
> I like that you come alone / *I prefer it that you come alone (I have to add an "it" for the sentence to be correct (?)* * No, it is also fine without adding "it".* / I hope that you come alone / I expect that you come alone.
> *I would have preferred/liked that you come/came alone (wrong)  I would have preferred that you came alone (but seeing as you didn't, there's not much I can do about it now.)  This construction is fine.*
> I would have hoped/expected that you came alone (correct)  *In most constructions, if you can use words like "hope" and "expected", you can also use "preferred" and "liked".*
> 
> Structure 3:
> I*'d* like it if you*'d* come alone / I*/I'd* prefer it if you/*you'd* come alone /* I hope it if you come alone * *(I see this one is incorrect)* / *I expect it if you come alone* *(Incorrect)*
> I would have liked/preferred it if you had (come) alone (correct)  *or* *I would've liked it if you'd've come alone.*
> *I would have hoped/expected it if you had come (incorrect) * *I would/might have hoped [that] you'd've / you'd have come alone. *
> 
> D) Regarding the verb "to want", you solely can say:
> I want you to come alone.
> The other two structures *would be wrong, *namely: "I want that you come alone" *I actually don't know if this is wrong, just very uncommon in American English.  It sounds a little forced to my ear.  In fact if you do a web search for "I want that you + verb" you'll find millions of examples of such syntax, we just don't use it much here.  *and  "I want it if you come".
> However, you can say: *"I would have wanted that you (had) come alone?* or *"I would have wanted you to come alone" *(?) *Are you making a conditional statement?  E.g. "I would have wanted you to come along, if there was enough space in the car."  If so, the last one is fine, given a little more context.  *
> 
> E) As for my number 9 above, is it incorrect or not?
> I would have wanted it if you had come. Grammatical, but wanted what?  (?) *This is grammatical but doesn't make reference to what the "it" is.  What is it that you would have wanted?  By itself, it doesn't make a lot of sense.*
> 
> In my 3 sentence, you mean that the most correct option would be: "I would have expected that you would have come" (?)
> I would have expected that you had come. Passable, better with 'would have come' *This one doesn't convince me, it sounds odd to my ears.  Are you trying to make a conditional statement?  "I would have expected that you would have come?" is perfectly grammatical but is somewhat cumbersome.  This is in part why we use contractions in English, to cut down on some of the burdensome aspects of the more "clunky" sentence syntaxes.  "I might have / might've expected that you'd've / you'd have come," sounds nicer to me, but since I'm not sure what the larger context is, I don't know if it changes the meaning.*
> 
> Thank you.



Pheww, hope that helps a little.


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## Gamen

Very useful. This part is a litttle complex and I don't want to keep making you dizzy. 
Thank you allofsocialite.

Now just one doubt is still going around in my head. At last! I'm making progress!
After using the conditional in the first sentence, what do I have to use in the second? Also the conditional, the past perfect or the simple past?
Are all optios correct?

I would have preferred that you came alone / I would have preferred that you had come alone.  / I would have preferred that you would have come alone.
I would have hoped/expected that you came alone / I would have hoped/expected that you had come alone / I would have hoped/expected that you would have come alone.

Sorry for so many queries!
Now it is very little what it remais unclear to me!


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## aloofsocialite

I'm sorry, I jumped into the middle of a thread that was already going full on without fully reading the previous posts.  

I would have preferred that you came alone / I would have preferred that you had come alone. / I would have preferred that you would have come alone.
I would have hoped/expected that you came alone / I would have hoped/expected that you had come alone / I would have hoped/expected that you would have come alone. *All of these options are correct, in my estimation, though as I mentioned earlier, some of them are slightly more cumbersome than others and a native speaker would likely use contractions to avoid sounding stilted.*


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## Gamen

Thank you for your answer aloofsocialite! Satisfied.


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## Forero

Gamen said:


> ...
> B) I thought it was better to use "came" in:
> I would have expected that you came / I would have liked that you came / I would have wanted that you came
> Because the fact of "coming" happens in the past. I mean, "I would have liked that you came yesterday". Or you are referring that the structure is wrong not the verb "to come" in the past?
> ...


Por lo menos en el inglés americano, _that you came_ = "que veniste" o "que venías", no "que vinieras".

_It is important that you come._ = _It is important for you to come._ = "Es importante que vengas."
_It was important that you come._ = _It was important for you to come._ = "Era/fue importante que vinieras."
_It was important that you came._ = "Era/fue importante que veniste/venías." (indicativo)


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## Gamen

Muchas gracias Forero por tu respuesta
En castellano no decimos "Era/fue importante que viniste/venías" (incorrecto). Es necesario usar el subjuntivo.

Decimos así:
Es importante que vengas hoy o mañana
Fue/era importante que vinieras (ayer, la semana pasada)
Hubiera querido que hubieras venido.

Ahora bien.
La traducción de "es importante que vinieras", ¿no sería "it was important that you came" / It was important that you had come"?
Y la traducción de "Hubiera querido que hubieras venido, no sería "I would have liked/wanted that you had come"?


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