# beccare il due di picche



## elastika

hi,
here's another mystery - beccare un due di picche.

context>
noi ci troviamo in knockout ogni volta che becchiamo un due di picche (e non e a briscola).

any suggestions what this means? many thanks in advance


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## TrentinaNE

elastika said:
			
		

> hi,
> here's another mystery - beccare un due di picche.
> 
> context>
> noi ci troviamo in knockout ogni volta che becchiamo un due di picche (e non e a briscola).
> 
> any suggestions what this means? many thanks in advance


Not a madrelingua here, but I know that briscola is a card game (my parents play it often), so I suspect "picche" could be one of the suits (i.e., the equivalent of clubs, spades, etc. in American cards). I'll be very interested in the explanations you receive!  

Elisabetta


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## misssmith

You are right, E. I don't play cards, but I think that you 'becchi un due di picche' when someone refuses you something or gives you something which is totally unimportant. Maybe there's a player around...
Barbara


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## silvietta

misssmith said:
			
		

> You are right, E. I don't play cards, but I think that you 'becchi un due di picche' when someone refuses you something or gives you something which is totally unimportant. Maybe there's a player around...
> Barbara


 
At briscola the 2 is the less important card, every card has a value the most important is the ace (eleven points) then there is the three (ten points) the king (four points) the queen (three points) and the jack (2 points) the other cards have no value, but you have to collect the more points you can and in every game there is a suit that "command" and take every card, but usually the two (also if it commands) never takes.... ahhhh that's a terrible explanation I know....
I tried but I think I'll give up...  
Silvia


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## silvietta

elastika said:
			
		

> hi,
> here's another mystery - beccare un due di picche.
> 
> context>
> noi ci troviamo in knockout ogni volta che becchiamo un due di picche (e non e a briscola).
> 
> any suggestions what this means? many thanks in advance


 
In any case "beccare un due di picche" it'a way of saying, taken from the "briscola" game, that a girl/boy refused you, didn't accept your courting.
It's an expression that, usually, boys use more than girls to say that one couldn't have sex with a girl... (but also girls use it sometimes)
Silvia

edit: I feel I couldn't understand myself....
hope you can...


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## TrentinaNE

Silvia, your explanation  pretty good, although the two (due) of the "trump" suit can win a round (including point cards of the non-trump suits) as long as no higher trump card is played in that round.

But enough about the fine points of briscola,  what about the original phrase that elastika asked to translate? Does it mean something like: _we're not automatically knocked out every time we play the two of picche (??)_ What about the part in () which seems to say he's not referring to briscola?

Grazie!
Elisabetta

_Edit: Oops, we crossed posts. Thanks!_


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## Frenko

From wiki: 
In molti giochi di carte il due di picche è una carta dal valore praticamente nullo. Prendere il due di picche da qualcuno, quasi sempre significa ricevere un rifiuto, come ad es. quando una ragazza respinge la corte di uno spasimante

Beccare un due di picche, as Barbara already said, means to be refused, specifically in love affairs


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## TrentinaNE

Grazie, Frenko. Allora la frase originale significa _We're not automatically knocked out every time we're refused_ ??  (I'm trying to connect the "Non ci troviamo in knockout" part to the "becchiamo un due di picche."  )

Elisabetta


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## Frenko

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> Grazie, Frenko. Allora la frase originale significa _We're not automatically knocked out every time we're refused_ ??  (I'm trying to connect the "Noi ci troviamo in knockout" part to the "becchiamo un due di picche."  )
> avevi scambiato noi con non
> 
> Elisabetta



Sì, andiamo al tappeto per ogni due di picche 

EDIT 

my try: We're knocked out by every refusal we get _Thanks to lsp_


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## TrentinaNE

Frenko said:
			
		

> Sì, andiamo al tappeto per ogni due di picche


Ah, grazie!  For some reason I kept reading _non_ instead of _noi_.  Forse significa che ho guardato il monitor per troppo tempo oggi.   

ELisabetta


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## Frenko

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> Ah, grazie!  For some reason I kept reading _non_ instead of _noi_.  Forse significa che ho guardato il monitor per troppo tempo oggi mi sa che siamo in due
> 
> ELisabetta



You're welcome Elisabetta!

Buona Notte


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## You little ripper!

Literally _due di picche_ is _2 of spades._  I don't play cards so have no idea of what significance that card has.


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## TrentinaNE

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Literally _due di picche_ is _2 of spades._ I don't play cards so have no idea of what significance that card has.


Charles, see the _briscola_ lesson above.  I'm not sure why the two of spades would be valued any less than the two of other suits. Must of one of those quirky idiomatic things!

Elisabetta


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## misssmith

Do you have a similar expression? I mean, relating to the world od cards?


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## You little ripper!

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> Charles, see the _briscola_ lesson above.  I'm not sure why the two of spades would be valued any less than the two of other suits. Must of one of those quirky idiomatic things!
> 
> Elisabetta


(e non è a briscola) is what was mentioned in the first thread. Doesn't that mean that this is not related to briscola, or is my Italian that bad? We don't know whether she is asking about a literal translation or the signifance of that particular card.  I was merely giving the literal translation of the terminology since I know nothing and have no interest in the game of cards, whatever form it takes.


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## carrickp

We find that we're just devasted every time we get dealt a joker (and we're not talking about card games).


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## TrentinaNE

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> (e non è a briscola) is what was mentioned in the first thread. Doesn't that mean that this is not related to briscola, or is my Italian that bad?


Charles, I think the expression *derives* from the fact that the two of any suit is the least valuable card to have, but the speaker of the sentence that started this thread is saying that s/he is using the phrase in its idiomatic sense (to be refused romantically) rather than in the literal sense of playing cards.

Buona notte!  (O buon giorno per te.   )


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## RobertL2

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> Ah, grazie!  For some reason I kept reading _non_ instead of _noi_.  Forse significa che ho guardato il monitor per troppo tempo oggi.
> 
> ELisabetta



Couldn't it be correct, anyway, as "non ci troviamo in knockout"?  In which case a liberal translation might be "We haven't been knocked out of the game just because we've been dealt the deuce of spades."


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## lsp

Frenko said:
			
		

> Sì, andiamo al tappeto per ogni due di picche
> 
> EDIT
> 
> my try: We're knocked out by every refuse*** we get )it makes sense?)


every *refusal*. Refuse is a verb (as a noun it means trash).


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## winnie

on the 'due di picche' value:
the 'french' suits are
cuori = hearts
quadri = diamonds
fiori = clubs
picche = spades

the 4 suits don't have the same value i.e. in a decreasing importance range: cuori then quadri then fiori and at last picche

so a Queen of Hearts has much more value with respect on the other 3 queens.
in the same way a 'due di picche' has the minimum value among the 'due' cards and being 'due' the poorest card it results that the 'due di picche' is the lowest card of the deck

to remember suit's value we have a mnemonic phrase: *c*ome *q*uando *f*uori *p*iove _(more or less: as when it's raining)_ which initial letters are the same of cuori, quadri, fiori, picche.


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## Juri

Reading all posts, I was expecting to find on the end a whole crash cours of "briscola".  
May  my contribution be a sentence of Alan Greenspan, which  I translated like:"Se quello che vi dico, vi sembra chiaro, probabilmente
non mi avete compreso"


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## You little ripper!

TrentinaNE said:
			
		

> Grazie, Frenko. Allora la frase originale significa _We're not automatically knocked out every time we're refused_ ?? (I'm trying to connect the "Non ci troviamo in knockout" part to the "becchiamo un due di picche."  )
> 
> Elisabetta


Maybe there is some connection to the expression _to be knocked back_ or _get a knock back_ which is what _beccare un due di picche _seems to mean?


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## elastika

many thanks to all for help re: beccare un due di picche. I was trying to grasp the idiomatic meaning of this expression which I know have-"to be refused romantically". I don't know whether there is an english card game expression that could be used in the same idiomatic sense - in my language (croatian) there is not, so I'll have to use some other idiom to get the same meaning of the sentence.
Ciao tutti


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## You little ripper!

elastika said:
			
		

> many thanks to all for help re: beccare un due di picche. I was trying to grasp the idiomatic meaning of this expression which I know have-"to be refused romantically". I don't know whether there is an english card game expression that could be used in the same idiomatic sense - in my language (croatian) there is not, so I'll have to use some other idiom to get the same meaning of the sentence.
> Ciao tutti


_To be turned down_ or _to be knocked back _are the only two idiomatic expressions I can think of at present.


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## Juri

In Croatian language does not exist idiomatic sense of "due di picche"??
 But elastika must ask for this in the dalmatian coast, where people play"briscola" a lot."Moraš da pitaš dalmatince!"


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## ElaineG

elastika said:
			
		

> many thanks to all for help re: beccare un due di picche. I was trying to grasp the idiomatic meaning of this expression which I know have-"to be refused romantically". I don't know whether there is an english card game expression that could be used in the same idiomatic sense - in my language (croatian) there is not, so I'll have to use some other idiom to get the same meaning of the sentence.
> Ciao tutti


 
I can't think of anything having to do with cards.  In AE, we'd probably use baseball: "I struck out with her/him."


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## Panpan

silvietta said:
			
		

> and in every game there is a suit that "command" and take every card, but usually the two (also if it commands) never takes....
> Silvia


 
We would call that the 'trump' suit.

Panpan


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## Frenko

(I think "briscola" is misleading, likely is the first card game come to the writer's mind as _another_ idiomatic phrase is "contare come il due di briscola" i.e. essere poco importanti, non contare niente)



			
				lsp said:
			
		

> every *refusal*. Refuse is a verb (as a noun it means trash).


Thank you lsp 

F


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## Amaidi

Sorry guys, do you know an English idiom equivalent to the Italian *"prendere/ricevere un due di picche"* (meaning being refused by a person we are courting)?

Thanks a million!


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## Paulfromitaly

Amaidi said:


> Sorry guys, do you know an English idiom equivalent to the Italian *"prendere/ricevere un due di picche"* (meaning being refused by a person we are courting)?
> 
> Thanks a million!



I believe "strike out with someone" works quite well in AE.
What would you guys say in BE?


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## GavinW

Yes Paul, Elaine mentioned that one earlier:



ElaineG said:


> I can't think of anything having to do with cards. In AE, we'd probably use baseball: "I struck out with her/him."


 
And, yes, it is AE and not really BE. I would say "I lucked out (with her)".


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## Paulfromitaly

GavinW said:


> And, yes, it is AE and not really BE. I would say "I lucked out (with her)".



Huh..As far as I know "to luck out" means to be very lucky in AE  (and that would not be the case..)


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## GavinW

Oh dear, have I got that wrong? Let me go and check....

Whaddya know! You're right! Sorry everyone, that's what comes of adopting these Americanisms (luck out is AE, after all), and never really knowing what they mean in the first place...


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## Paulfromitaly

GavinW said:


> Oh dear, have I got that wrong? Let me go and check....


Please do, otherwise this expression must be handled with utmost care when talking to an American audience..



GavinW said:


> Whaddya know! You're right! Sorry everyone, that's what comes of adopting these Americanisms (luck out is AE, after all), and never really knowing what they mean in the first place...



Nae bather 
Can you or any other Brit suggest a BE version of "strike out with someone" ?


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## You little ripper!

In Australia and New Zealand we use the expression *knock-back,* as I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure if it's used anywhere else.

*Tim: So did the pick-up line work?*
*John: No mate. She knocked me back!*

*James: So have you got her into bed yet mate?*
*Grant: No mate. I got a knock-back the last time I tried!*

P.S. And yes, every second word is* mate *over here!!!


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## london calling

Charles Costante said:


> *Tim: So did the pick-up line work?*
> *John: No mate. She knocked me back!*
> 
> *James: So have you got her into bed yet mate?*
> *Grant: No mate. I got a knock-back the last time I tried!*
> 
> P.S. And yes, every second word is* mate *over here!!!


Hello, mate!

_I was told where to get off the last time I tried!_ (BE)


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## matthias3

well, when there're only 3 players we have to take off one card in the majority of italian card games, and it's always the two spades. I think the expression "beccarsi/prendersi un due di picche" (that means to be refused in love by someone) comes from this habit...
anyway, there's a similar translation in english? something popular like this?


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## jdscom

Hi came accros this when I was looking up the meaning of "Picche", from listening to an italian pop duo called "Due di Picche". 

So translated the the siners call them selves the two of spades?

are there any alternate meanings for Picche?


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## elena73

Due di Picche: they clearly mean the card here. 
As a card sign picche=spades. Yes.
If you are interested in the ancient use of this word (at the beginning it was a weapon - Macchivelli's time) you might read this: 

http://dizionari.corriere.it/dizionario_italiano/P/picca_1.shtml

But picche is just thought of as a 'card sign'. That's it. If you 'randomly' ask a person 'on the street' in Italy I bet he wouldn't know what it represents anymore.


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## Izee

winnie said:


> on the 'due di picche' value:
> 
> to remember suit's value we have a mnemonic phrase: *c*ome *q*uando *f*uori *p*iove _(more or less: as when it's raining)_ which initial letters are the same of cuori, quadri, fiori, picche.



Does anyone know if there is an English idiomatic expression equivalent to "Come Quando Fuori Piove"? What do people do to remember the order?

Thanks a bunch,
R


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Machiavelli (one "c").
GS


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## luperculus

People, forget "briscola" or other Italian card games. Those are played with deck of 40 cards (10 per suit) with different graphics, and most of all, different names. Instead of hearts, diamonds, clubs and spades, Italian decks have "coppe, denari, bastoni and spade". "picche" is the name used in Italian for the suit we call "spades" in the international card decks (52 cards, 13 per suit). So, if "due di picche" refers to a card game, it would be a game played with international cards. But it is not clear which game it would refer to.


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