# Help with hexameters



## soplamocos

I'm trying to segment some Illiad verses. So, if you can help with some advice I give you thanks in advance.
I'm mainly interested in the verses 508 and 669, but I wrote others more because I couldn't do it rigth with them   I only wrote the last two because there ends the stanza (?).

First, an explanation about the hexameter:
The epic verse of the Iliad (and others poems) is the dactylic hexameter, so each of them have six "feet".
Each feet could be compose for *one long* and two short syllable (dactyl: *-*uu), or two long (spondee: --).
The last feet of each verse could be compose by one long and one short (trochee: -u).
The feet must keep that order of syllabes: it can't be a u-u, uu- feet.

A syllable is long when it contains (maybe I'm missing some rule here):

two or more consonant
*ζ, χ, ψ* (they are considered double consonant)

a long vowel: *ω *and *η* are always long. But *α, ι, *and *υ* may vary: could be or not long. If they had a circumflex accent they are long, because it can only be over that kind of vowels.
diphthongs: *αι, αυ, ει, ευ, οι, ου, υι, ηυ.*


670: νῦν τις ἐνηείης Πατροκλῆος δειλοῖο
670: νῦν/ τις/ ἐ/νη/εί/ης/ Πα/τρο/κλῆ/ος /δει/λο/ῖ/ο
670:  -    -   / u  -  - / -  u   -     /  -    u   -   /  u - u
670: Well... this is a disaster  I'm missing one feet, also I not following the long-short-short/ long-long order

Moderator's note: List of verses edited out so that the post complies with the rules


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## Scholiast

Heus! There's a lot there.

For the moment I confine myself to l. 670, which appears to have given soplamocos the most grief.



soplamocos said:


> νῦν τις ἐνηείης Πατροκλῆος δειλοῖο



 ¯         ˇ      ˇ / ¯ ¯ / ¯     ¯    / ¯    ¯  /  ¯    ¯   / ¯    ˇ

νῦν τις ἐν-/η-εί-/ης Πατρ-/οκλ-ῆ-/ος δειλ-/οῖ-ο

What makes this line awkward to scan is the spondaic 5th foot.

(Sorry, I can't make the metrical symbols align with the text here).

Σ


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## soplamocos

νῦν *τις* ἐν-/η-εί-/ης Πατρ-/οκλ-ῆ-/*ος* δειλ-/οῖ-ο

What happens with the bold syllabes? Why "*τις" *is short and* "ος" *long? (I think remember that the sigma "enlarge" the vowels when it's at the end)

I would never imagine that "Πατρ" were a syllabe. For example, in Spanish, with _patrimonio (_heritage) I would say _pa-tri-mo-nio._


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## Scholiast

Greetings again


soplamocos said:


> νῦν *τις* ἐν-/η-εί-/ης Πατρ-/οκλ-ῆ-/*ος* δειλ-/οῖ-ο
> 
> What happens with the bold syllabes? Why "*τις" *is short and* "ος" *long?



Yes, sorry, I should have printed Πα-τρο-κλη-ος.

As to τις, this is a naturally short iota. iota can be lengthened, but as a rule of thumb is only so when it has a circumflex accent.

In Πατροκλῆ*ος *the _vowel_ is short, but the _syllable_ is for scansion purposes long, because of the doubled consonant (-ο*ς* *δ*ειλ-).

Σ


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## soplamocos

Humm, but does not have "τις" doubled consonant (the τ and the ς) becoming then in long syllabe?

Also, do you know the name of this -ο*ς* *δ*ειλ-? (It looks like weird synalepha between consosnants).

Thank you for taking time to answer me, I appreciate it a lot!


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## Scholiast

Greetings once more



soplamocos said:


> but does not have "τις" doubled consonant (the τ and the ς) becoming then in long syllabe?



This is not what is meant by "doubled" consonants: in both Greek and Latin verse and prosody, it's when two consonants _follow_ a vowel that the syllable is for metrical purposes lengthened, even when the vowel is naturally short.

Σ


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## soplamocos

Scholiast said:


> it's when two consonants _follow_ a vowel



Oh, I think that I see it now 

Would be the scansion like this?

νῦν τις ἐν-/η-εί/ης *Πα*/τρο-κλῆ-/*ος *δει/λοῖ-ο
..-...u...u /.-.-./.-..-../..-....-..../..-...-./..-..u

(where "*Πα" *and* "ος" *are considerer long syllabes because their vowel is followed by two consonant)


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## Scholiast

soplamocos said:


> Would be the scansion like this?
> 
> νῦν τις ἐν-/η-εί/ης *Πα*/τρο-κλῆ-/*ος *δει/λοῖ-ο
> ..-...u...u /.-.-./.-..-../..-....-..../..-...-./..-..u



Spot on.

Σ


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## soplamocos

Yay! Thank you again, you have help me a lot.


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## Scholiast

Good, but be aware for future reference that when 'l' or 'r' are the second of the doubled consonants, the lengthening of the foregoing syllable is _optional_. Thus Πἀτροκλος can be scanned in various ways according to context.

Σ


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