# i tak dalej / i tym podobne



## elroy

i tak dalej / i tym podobne

Are these two interchangeable?

Are there any differences in frequency of usage, register, connotation, etc.?


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## zaffy

elroy said:


> Are these two interchangeable?


I guess they are.



elroy said:


> Are there any differences in frequency of usage, register, connotation, etc.?



As for frequency of usage, it's pretty much the same, maybe "i tak dalej" is a bit more frequent.

I can see no difference register wise.

There's one difference, though. "I tak dalej"  is often said twice in a row to put more emphsis. We don't repeat "I tym podobne"

I tak dalej, i tak dalej = and so on and so forth


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## jasio

I have an impression that "I tak dalej" is used more often in the spoken language, especially when you enumerate some example items to represent a larger set. In writing both are used, both are abbreviated (itd., itp.), and oftentimes itd. Is repeated, or followed by itp.

These are all my personal observations, I'm not aware of any studies about them.


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## zaffy

In informal speech we often say them both at the same time in the abbreviated forms, that is, "itp., itd".

_Kupiłem masę różnych gratów do kuchni typu garnki, talerze, sztućce itp., itd.  _


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## elroy

So you can say:

(1) i tak dalej
(2) i tym podobne
(3) i tak dalej, i tak dalej
(4) i tak dalej, i tym podobne
(5) i tym podobne, i tak dalej

but not

(6) i tym podobne, i tym podobne

And you can use the abbreviations even in speech? Can that be done with all of (1)-(5)?


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## zaffy

These work for me:

1. i tak dalej
2. i tym podobne
3. i tak dalej i tak dalej
4. itp, itd (informal, I would start with itp, or maybe it's just me)



elroy said:


> And you can use the abbreviations even in speech?


Yes, post #4.


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## elroy

Would you ever say just "itd" or "just "itp" in speech?


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## zaffy

elroy said:


> Would you ever say just "itd" or "just "itp" in speech?


I wouldn't. They only work when used together, at least for me.


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## elroy

Is this summary accurate?



*SPEECH**WRITING**i tak dalej*yesyes*i tym podobne*yesyes*i tak dalej i tak dalej*yesyes*i tym podobne i tym podobne*nono*i take dalej i tym podobne*nono*i tym podobne i take dalej*nono*itd*noyes*itp*noyes*itd itd*noyes*itp itp*nono*itd itp*noyes*itp itd*yesyes


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## MaciejBo

"i tak dalej" (itd.) - I think it relates to a more specific enumeration. The recipient can easily determine what the next elements are.
For example:
2^2=4, 2^3=8, 2^4=16, itd
we have the months of January, February and March, itd.

"i tym podobne" (itp.) - probably applies to enumeration, where the successive elements are not so obvious. 
For example:
the following fruits grow in Poland: apples, pears, plums, itp.

In my opinion, in 'i tak dalej' a certain established principle is applied to subsequent elements, i.e. "tak dalej" for each element.

In the case of 'i tym podobne', similarity is applied to subsequent elements, i.e. something common to all elements, but without the need to rank them in a particular way.


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## zaffy

This is how I see it:



*i tak dalej - speech**i tym podobne – speech**i tak dalej i tak dalej – speech**i tym podobne i tym podobne – not used**i tak dalej i tym podobne – not used**i tym podobne i take dalej – not used**itd -writing**itp – writing**itd itd – informal writing like texting**itp itp – not used**itd itp – speech and informal writing like texting**itp itd – speech and informal writing like texting*



Personally, when writing, I would always use the abbreviated forms.


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## zaffy

MaciejBo said:


> "i tak dalej" (itd.) - I think it relates to a more specific enumeration. The recipient can easily determine what the next elements are.
> For example:
> 2^2=4, 2^3=8, 2^4=16, itd
> we have the months of January, February and March, itd.
> 
> "i tym podobne" (itp.) - probably applies to enumeration, where the successive elements are not so obvious.
> For example:
> the following fruits grow in Poland: apples, pears, plums, itp.


I guess I agree with you. I just found this example where itd doesn't really work. 

_W sklepie artystycznym na półkach widnieją różnorodne pędzle, farby itp._


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## Jendrej

elroy said:


> Would you ever say just "itd" or "just "itp" in speech?


Some people say it. “I te pe, i te de”. Using only one of them is a thing too, though it may be rarer to hear.


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