# yours sincerely



## SJ313

Hello,

I'm writing an email in French demanding a payment that is already very late and that I will take the matter to court if I have to. The forum says that "yours sincerely" should be "Je vous prie d'agréer, Madame / Monsieur, l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées". 

My question is - I don't want to be rude, but I also don't want my email to sound too friendly or like I'm ok with the situation. And "je vous prie, etc." sounds too nice to me and I would like to use something else which sounds harder and like I really mean business. But I don't know what the French protocol is and I'm not a native speaker and don't normally have to write such letters in French. 

I'd appreciate any help. Many thanks in advance.


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## pieanne

I often use "bien à vous"


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## Kavash

Hi SJ,

I think I got your point, this long and quite too nice je vous prie bladibla, you can replace it by something quite formal, polite and direct :

Cordialement, which means exactly the same as the long one but more professional and clear. Just to say I want to be nice but I still want my money all right ? 


I hope it will help


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## English_frog

You could simply use : Cordialement.

Please check this website out, it gives a few ideas for what we call "formules de politesse" www (dot) maildesigner (dot) com/formules-politesse.htm


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## Kavash

Or even the best to conclude I had this morning :

Bien Cordialement. Which Rocks...

Nice English Frog we post the Cordialement at the same time ^^


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## SJ313

Thanks for all the prompt suggestions. I really appreciate it. 

Ok, it seems that the majority would go for "cordialement", so I will use that. And thanks for the website English frog. It looks really useful. Now hopefully I get my money...


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## vanagreg

SJ313 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm writing an email in French demanding a payment that is already very late and that I will take the matter to court if I have to. The forum says that "yours sincerely" should be "Je vous prie d'agréer, Madame / Monsieur, l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées".
> 
> My question is - I don't want to be rude, but I also don't want my email to sound too friendly or like I'm ok with the situation. And "je vous prie, etc." sounds too nice to me and I would like to use something else which sounds harder and like I really mean business. But I don't know what the French protocol is and I'm not a native speaker and don't normally have to write such letters in French.
> 
> I'd appreciate any help. Many thanks in advance.


 
In French we have many many formulas.

You pointed out "je vous prie" as being to nice; well, that's the hypocrisy of these expressions. You can send a letter that sounds very threatening and finish it with "Je vous prie de croire, cher Monsieur, à l'assurance de..." 

Don't use "Cordialement" if you want to keep it formal. 
You can very well use "je vous prie" with the kind of letters you want to send (I know since I have already received a couple of them).

Something like:

"Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations"

that sounds hypocrite enough


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## Micia93

moi je dirais :
"veuillez agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes salutations distinguées"
c'est bateau, mais ça passe partout !


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## pioupiouz

I agree with Vanagreg: "Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations" sounds hypocrite and cold enough. It should never be taken for what it really means. It's just French bla bla to say, "I'm polite no matter how threatening the rest of the letter sounds". It doesn't implie at all that you care about them, when you care you write something more personal and honest.


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## Micia93

pioupiouz said:


> I agree with Vanagreg: "Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations" sounds hypocrite and cold enough. It should never be taken for what it really means. It's just French bla bla to say, "I'm polite no matter how threatening the rest of the letter sounds". It doesn't implie at all that you care about them, when you care you write something more personal and honest.


 
*yes, but why being so polite ? I think my very neutral proposal would fit as well .... *



You pointed out "je vous prie" as being to nice; well, that's the hypocrisy of these expressions. You can send a letter that sounds very threatening and finish it with "Je vous prie de croire, cher Monsieur, à l'assurance de..." 

*I don't think so, when you really want to threaten somebody, you can't end with such a formula. Very recently, I had problems with some firms selling telephone (I won't tell which one) and ended with :*
*"veuillez recevoir l'expression de mes sentiments excédés" 
*


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## pioupiouz

Yes, Micia your suggestion is as good as Vanagreg's and I think they are both better than "cordialement" since they are even more cold and impersonal (in my opinion at least).
Your last suggestion:"veuillez recevoir l'expression de mes sentiments excédés" is just great because it turns the usual phrase into something more ironic. I would definitely use this one just for the fun of it.
But you have to admit that:"Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations" or "veuillez agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes salutations distinguées" don't convey any nice meaning and it is just as much ironic to use them at the end of a threatening letter


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## Micia93

pioupiouz said:


> Yes, Micia your suggestion is as good as Vanagreg's and I think they are both better than "cordialement" since they are even more cold and impersonal (in my opinion at least).
> Your last suggestion:"veuillez recevoir l'expression de mes sentiments excédés" is just great because it turns the usual phrase into something more ironic. I would definitely use this one just for the fun of it.
> But you have to admit that:"Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations" or "veuillez agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes salutations distinguées" don't convey any nice meaning and it is just as much ironic to use them at the end of a threatening letter


 

Yes, I do admit Pioupiouz


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## vanagreg

Micia93 said:


> *I don't think so, when you really want to threaten somebody, you can't end with such a formula. Very recently, I had problems with some firms selling telephone (I won't tell which one) and ended with :*
> *"veuillez recevoir l'expression de mes sentiments excédés" *


 
Yes you normally do, even if you're asking for a payment. This one is very bad, you obviously dealt with somebody totally unprofessional. 
You do end politely (it's hypocrit I know, but that's the way it is). Maybe because somehow they keep hope to have you again as their client...


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## Micia93

This one is very bad, you obviously dealt with somebody totally unprofessional. 



that was the case ! that was the first time I added a letter like that, and I hope it will be the last !


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## miyamoto_musashi

Yes, it is very important in French to be polite, and the cultural tradition  in ending letters is VERY formal, but this can be very pleasant. However, they are adapting more Anglo tolerances these days, and in emails, you can get away with just one word: amicalement, cordialement, and so on.


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## Kavash

vanagreg said:


> Don't use "Cordialement" if you want to keep it formal.
> You can very well use "je vous prie" with the kind of letters you want to send (I know since I have already received a couple of them).
> 
> Something like:
> 
> "Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations"
> 
> that sounds hypocrite enough


 
That's exactly what he didn't want, all he wanted it's a short and polite enough to say ok I send you my greetings but I still want my money...

And I am sorry to say but if cordialement is not formal, it's quite weird I see a lot of people using it since ages, at least when I saw all my bosses and manager French old or not using it, my clients as well... Cordialement is a mark of respect and more professional than licking the derriere of your customer whom owns money with this kind of :veuillez accepter toutes les Expression de mes sinceres salutations du fin fond de mon coeur je vous adore cher customeur ^^. Everybody knows it's useless, even people won't read it. 

And I don't even want to quote the rest regarding salutation excedés, I think some of us lost themselves on this thread.


Have a nice day,


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## stellina06

I would write: "salutations distinguées". It's a bit like "best regards" in English...

Have a good day amd GOOD LUCK!

Laila


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## vanagreg

Kavash said:


> That's exactly what he didn't want, all he wanted it's a short and polite enough to say ok I send you my greetings but I still want my money...
> 
> And I am sorry to say but if cordialement is not formal, it's quite weird I see a lot of people using it since ages, at least when I saw all my bosses and manager French old or not using it, my clients as well... Cordialement is a mark of respect and more professional than licking the derriere of your customer whom owns money with this kind of :veuillez accepter toutes les Expression de mes sinceres salutations du fin fond de mon coeur je vous adore cher customeur ^^. Everybody knows it's useless, even people won't read it.
> 
> And I don't even want to quote the rest regarding salutation excedés, I think some of us lost themselves on this thread.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day,


 
Few remarks on what you said:
"if cordialement is not formal, it's quite weird I see a lot of people using it since ages, at least when I saw all my bosses and manager French old or not using it, my clients as well"
It's not because many people use it that it makes it formal. Thousands of French people send SMS everyday and the language they used is everything but French. So maybe we should start writing French the way they do, why not...

_"Cordialement is a mark of respect and more professional" _
I'm sorry to say that "Cordialement" is completely meaningless, I never understood what is really meant by "Cordialement". I agree that everybody uses it, even myself, but just like a robot, and because I don't want to write a whole expression especially when it's not formal. It's such a stupid expression that people shorten it to "Cdt". Well, let's make it "C" then, or best, nothing at all.

_"Everybody knows it's useless, even people won't read it."_ 
I agree it's useless, I even said it was hypocrit. But these are kind of traditions you can say.
Ties are also useless, what a mere piece of cloth can help you thinking more efficiently, but why so many people in the world wear ties?

Anyway, you're right, this topic has gone beyond its aim, so let's end the debate here.


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## Kavash

Come on, you want to stop it after almost insulting me...

Please try to compare what's comparable. Sms come on...

I don't even want to waste my time why your argues are OT Watch and learn :
*Étymol. et Hist. *_Ca_ 1393 _cordialement_ « avec tout son cœur » (_Ménagier de Paris,_ I, 20 ds T.-L.).D'une manière cordiale 
*A.−* Du fond du cœur, dans tout l'élan de la vie morale la plus intime. _Amusements très-simples (...) partagés (...) plus naïvement, plus cordialement par ceux dont le cœur a été le plus pur_ (Sand, _Hist. vie,_ t. 3, 1855, p. 441). _Le miracle (...) *d'avoir pleinement et cordialement saisi le sens religieu*x, la fin supérieure et sublime du sacrifice_ (Bremond, _Hist.,_ t. 3, 1921, p. 347). *PARAD.* (Quasi-)synon. _franchement, loyalement, ouvertement, sincèrement, spontanément._
− [Avec une valeur intensive et souvent un effet d'antiphrase] _Haïr, s'ennuyer cordialement._ _Ces prologues congratulateurs qui précédaient (...) toute conversation entre savants et qui ne les empêchaient pas de se détester le plus cordialement du monde_ (Hugo, _N.-D. Paris,_ 1832, p. 198). _Cf. cordial_ II A rem. 

*B.−* Avec (une chaleureuse) amitié. _Se serre_[_r_] _cordialement la main (...)_ « _en camarade loyal_ » (Barrès, _Barbares,_ 1888, p. 253). _Salué très cordialement, et gentiment complimenté_ (G. Leroux, _Parfum,_ 1908, p. 35). *PARAD.* (Quasi-)synon. _affectueusement, amicalement, sympathiquement;_


Let me see you said "Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes sincères salutations"

you are right on one thing I don't like sms either but I know definition of words. 

Have a nice Day, and now we can close this thread... 

If you want to debate more about it pls PM me ^^


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## SJ313

A belated thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I already sent the email yesterday with "cordialement", and it was through the message service of the company's website, which I suppose is not very formal, so hopefully the "cordialement" was ok. The contact person I was working with left shortly after the project and I'm not getting any response from the email contact he left me with. On the phone they always tell me it's "en cours". If it doesn't work out, I will have to take things to the next level and inform them more formally by post, so perhaps then the longer formula will be better.


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## plumpudding

I would just add that to me, you don't usually use "veuillez agréer, messieurs, l'expression  etc..." in an email but rather in a letter. I really think you were right using "cordialement", which is the most "passe-partout" as we say in French !


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## L'enquiquineur

En tant qu'anglophone je dois dire que j'ai trouvé cette discussion très intéressante et instructive.  Les subtilités d'écrire une lettre en français sont bien disconcertantes!

I am sure that it is equally confusing for French speakers who wish to use everyday English formalities.  It is always a good idea to check with a native speaker.  I could, for example, talk about the use of 'Have a nice day'.... but that would be another thread...

Amicalement


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## Kavash

Ah ça c'est bein l'enquiquineur, 

Le Français est une langue incomparable et dire qu'il y a environ 200 la langue internationale était le Français... Such a international mess...

And Anyway I don't want to start another topic here, but I just wanted to correct you : sont bien disconcertantes, definitivement mais l'on dit _*déconcertantes.*_


Voila et en ésperant que SJ313 puisse regler son problème de contentieux ^^


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## baek

I think Cordialement is too casual. It has been used so much in professional communication it lost of its original meaning.   "Cordialement" means "with a displayed benevolent affection", "cheerfully", it was supposed  to put a friendly (commercial) tone to an email.  In that regard, using it to claim you money is not the best option. Specially if you don't really know the person you're sending that email.  "Je vous prie d'agréer, Madame / Monsieur, l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées". is however highly formal. By using it your email looks very official and compelling, where "cordialement" is rather casual, when not totally devoid of meaning. Nevertheless it is not fit for use with somebody you know personally.  So use it for first contact, specially when you mean serious business.


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## Micia93

Kavash said:


> That's exactly what he didn't want, all he wanted it's a short and polite enough to say ok I send you my greetings but I still want my money...
> 
> 
> And I don't even want to quote the rest regarding salutation excedés, I think some of us lost themselves on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to have irritated you Kavash
> It was only an example to show that we could adapt these formula according to the context ; the one I gave is not the best one, I admit it, but it was just because I was really exasperated
> 
> 
> In this particular case, a very short formula like : "salutations distinguées" or "sentiments distingués" would fit


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## pulsar29

baek said:


> I think Cordialement is too casual. It has been used so much in professional communication it lost of its original meaning.   "Cordialement" means "with a displayed benevolent affection", "cheerfully", it was supposed  to put a friendly (commercial) tone to an email.  In that regard, using it to claim you money is not the best option. Specially if you don't really know the person you're sending that email.  "Je vous prie d'agréer, Madame / Monsieur, l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées". is however highly formal. By using it your email looks very official and compelling, where "cordialement" is rather casual, when not totally devoid of meaning. Nevertheless it is not fit for use with somebody you know personally.  So use it for first contact, specially when you mean serious business.



It definitely is too casual for business letters. "Cordialement" is fine for email or certain fields such a new technologies (internet, etc.) where people "tutoyent" each other. In very formal letters, such as complaints - basically all professional letters, you should use "Je vous prie d'agréer, Madame / Monsieur, l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées", even if it means next to nothing.


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## kratsy

I've been reading these threads on letter closings, and I'm still a bit confused . . . (I've also checked out some of the websites)

If I am writing a fairly formal email to someone I don't yet know, but whose name I've been given as a contact as a future colleague/employer (I don't know their level, I only know their name), what sort of closing should I use? (I started the email with "Monsieur le Professeur"

If it were an email in English of this kind, I would close with "Thank you very much. Sincerely," 

But I am just uncertain about whether it is appropriate to use one of those long and formal closings in an email. This person is probably a teacher or maybe the head of a language area ("tutorat"). I feel a bit uncomfortable sounding very formal because the point of the email is simply to introduce myself and to ask about some particularities of my position and the area where I will be living. I'm not requesting anything, but I do want to come across as polite and appropriate (but also friendly, if possible). 

Is this, or something like this, possible? "Avec tous mes remerciements et mes   meilleures amitiés," Otherwise, I will just go ahead and pick out some phrases from one of those formulas for letter endings. But if a long ending would sound too formal for an email in this context, please let me know.


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## kratsy

Continued: Would it be possible to end my email with "bien cordialement"?


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## Micia93

"bien cordialement" is an easy one which can fit any situation IMHO

:=)


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## Kecha

I think "Cordialement" and "Bien cordialement" are widely used in professional emails because 1/ it's short 2/ it's polite enough but 3/ not too formal either. It's like "Regards" or "Best regards" in English IMO.

I also really like to use it at the end of threatening / angry emails because I am precisely not "cordial" at all, and it makes it sound harsh and cold.

I think more complex and longer expression like "je vous prie de", "veuillez" etc. are kept for letters to official bodies / professional letters, etc. They're quite hyprocritical and no one reads them, as mentioned before, so whether the letter is informational / threatening / etc. doesn't matter, you just put it there because you have to, it's sort of protocol.


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## Chimel

kratsy said:


> Is this, or something like this, possible? "Avec tous mes remerciements et mes meilleures amitiés,"


I wouldn't go for something with "amitiés" at this stage of the relationship. Perhaps later, when you've met the person and you feel there is some affinity between you.

To me, the standard expression in emails and informal letters for a first contact like here (polite but not too formal) is "Avec mes sentiments les meilleurs". I use if quite often.

So you could write something like:
_Je vous remercie beaucoup pour votre aide/pour ces renseignements/pour..._ [use a "je" sentence to thank him if you really mean it, "avec tous mes remerciements" is a little bit cold]

_Avec mes sentiments les meilleurs,_ [new line - here, you can go for a standard and more impersonal expression, it's more a convention]


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