# All dialects: foot / leg



## WadiH

What words are used for the "foot" that you know of?  It doesn't have to be the dominant or most common word; just tell me whatever synonyms you know.

Also do you usually employ separate words for "foot" and "leg?"


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## Josh_

Interesting question, one I have been curious about.  In the Egyptian dialect they don't seem to differentiate.  The word رجل is used for both.  It seems that it can be used to refer to the leg and foot together (the entire limb from the hip down) or to either the leg or foot specifically.  Only context tells us which is intended.  For instance داس برجله would seem to refer to the foot, whereas حط رجل على رجل would seem to refer to the legs.  Often though, the context may not make it clear (as in واقف على رجليه), but in every day matters it may not really matter either.  That may be part of the reason why there is not a distinction.

Of course, the word قدم also occurs in Egyptian, but not nearly as commonly as رجل, from what I can tell.


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## AndyRoo

In MSA foot = قدم qadam, or sometimes رجل rijl.

rijl can mean leg too.

ساق = _lower_ leg (I think)


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## WadiH

Josh_ said:


> Of course, the word قدم also occurs in Egyptian, but not nearly as commonly as رجل, from what I can tell.



How is it pronounced?  With a _hamza _or with an MSA _qaf_?


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## Josh_

With a hamza -- 2adam.


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## WadiH

Josh_ said:


> With a hamza -- 2adam.



Thanks.  What contexts does it usually appear in?  What I'm trying to get at is, do you get the sense that it is a traditional Egyptian word or does it feel like more of a formal word (e.g. that you would use when describing an injury to a doctor)?


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## Josh_

You're welcome.  Of course a native Egyptian is better to answer this question, but in my experience it does seem like a more formal word only used in situations such as describing an injury to a doctor, or in set phrases such as كرة القدم.  It is also used in measurements.  Apart from those situations, I can only recall ever hearing it when someone wanted to clarify something related to his foot as opposed to his leg.  (Perhaps he thought I would not understand if he used the word رجل). For every day, causal talk the word رجل seems to be the only term used.


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## Faylasoof

AndyRoo said:


> In MSA foot = قدم qadam, or sometimes رجل rijl.



In fus7a both are used. May be رجل _rijl_ a bit more, if I remember.



> rijl can mean leg too.
> 
> ساق = _lower_ leg (I think)



Yes! 

Is it? As far as think ساق is the whole leg but it is divided into فخذ _faxz _(thigh), ربلة / بطة الساق _rablah / baTTat us saaq_ (calf) and  قدم / رىجل _rijl / qadam_ (foot).


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## AndyRoo

Faylasoof said:


> In fus7a both are used. May be رجل _rijl_ a bit more, if I remember.


I'm not sure if you are differentiating fus7a and MSA? But definitely, in my experience, qadam is much more common than rijl for foot in MSA




Faylasoof said:


> Is it? As far as think ساق is the whole leg but it is divided into فخذ _faxz _(thigh), ربلة / بطة الساق _rablah / baTTat us saaq_ (calf) and قدم / رىجل _rijl / qadam_ (foot).


 
Yes I'm not sure about ساق being the lower leg, but there is a picture in al-Munjid for ساق which highlights in red the area below the knee. Plus I saw this line from a Yusuf Idris short story, describing a liquorice juice seller, who was wearing:
السروال الطويل الذي يترك الساقين عاريتين ,which suggests it means the lower leg too. But then Wehr says ساق can mean thigh, so I'm a bit confused.


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## clevermizo

The two words I'm familiar with in Levatine Dialects are رجل and إجر. Both are pluralized using "dual" patterns but are actual plurals and not duals: رجلين، إجرين.

قدم  occurs, I believe, as the measurement "foot" with أقدام as the plural (as in "She's about 5 feet"). 

Both رجل and إجر refer to both the leg and the foot. I bet you could use قدم if you wanted to distinguish the foot specifically, but I'm not sure.


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## HBZ55

In Tunisia, we use saa9 to mean both "foot" and "leg".


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## Arabus

In northern Syria we say ʔǝǧǝr (plu. ʔǝǧrēn)  for foot/leg, and we say ʔīd  (plu. ʔidēn) for hand/arm. We don't use رجل at all, and it actually sounds rather foreign.

There are some other familiar terms that can describe a limb, but not in usual circumstances. For example, a common expression said to someone who crosses their legs (which is a socially offensive act) is "_nazzel maksuurt-ak_," where _maksuura _is a "gerundive" form referring to a leg/foot.

In Syria there is no distinction at all as regards hand/arm or foot/leg.


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## WadiH

Isn't إجر just a reflex of رجل?  That's what I've always assumed anyway.


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## Arabus

This is what I assume too. But I am not sure how can you derive it from رجل. One way I can think of is by analogy with words such as جوز (from زوج) and قعل (in Damascus) (from عقل) etc. that is, by metathesis; so ?ijr would have evolved as follows:

?ar-rijl > *?al-lijr > ?al-?ijr

The last step would be by analogy with ?iid إيد , or perhaps with the development of w-?alla from wal-lah والله... I don't know, and I don't think this derivation is very convincing.

I just remembered that my grandmother used the plural ʔǝǧrayyāt for إجر, perhaps from original *ʔǝǧraynāt. Also in Aleppo, the plural dayyāt is in common use for إيد, and it probably comes from *ʔdayyāt and earlier *ʔǝdaynāt.

I can't speak for sure about the other dialects, but I would say that قدم does not occur in any central dialect (Levant, Egypt, ...) except as a borrowing from MSA.

I want to add that إجر should not necessarily be derived from رجل; it can simply be an old vernacular root for "leg," related to the roots jaraa (run) and jarra (drag). This is certainly the case for إيد, which is not derived from يد but comes from an original ?ayd < *?ayad.


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## WadiH

Arabus said:


> This is certainly the case for إيد, which is not derived from يد but comes from an original ?ayd < *?ayad.



What makes you so certain?  إيد to me sounds like it acquired the initial إ in the same away as words like إشي, إلك, إجا, etc.


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## Arabus

I shouldn't have said certain, but note that the same transformation didn't happen in yijii, which should have become ?iijii*. The letters y and w are not treated the same as regular consonants in Arabic, so the comparison with the examples you mentioned is not totally valid. Also, more importantly, ?ayd is an actual word that exists in CA (strength, support) and in Aramaic (hand), and maybe in South Semitic.

The verb ?ǝjaa < ?ajaa < *?ajaa?a is a different verb from jaa?a. So that example is wrong. Also, إشي does not exist in Syria, and I don't think it evolved phonologically from شيء.


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## WadiH

Arabus said:


> Also, إشي does not exist in Syria, and I don't think it evolved phonologically from شيء.



Why does it have to exist in Syria?  It's just an example of two-letter words acquiring an initial _aleph _or _hamza_ in Arabic.  In Palestine and Jordan, both إشي and إجر are used, anyway.

إشي v. شي
إلك v. لك
إلي v. لي
إهو v. هو

There are just too many examples of this happening to conclude that the first column is not derived from the second.  What other origin could إشي have if it's not from شي? 

As for the Levantine إجا being derived from a different verb أجاء, according to لسان العرب the two are from the same root, but I suppose it's possible that the original verb in Syria was أجاء (as in فأجاءها المخاض عند جذع النخلة) as you say.



Arabus said:


> I shouldn't have said certain, but note that the same transformation didn't happen in yijii, which should have become ?iijii*



But don't people say إيجي and بيجي ومابيجي?  At least in Palestine they do (someone correct me here).



> Also, more importantly, ?ayd is an actual word that exists in CA (strength, support) and in Aramaic (hand), and maybe in South Semitic.



Well isn't the root أ-ي-د itself derived from يد (similar to how, in English, "help" can be expressed as "giving a hand")?  Shouldn't we look at يد as a bi-lateral "proto-root" for أ-ي-د?  The two seem too similar to have come from completely different roots.

Back to إجر, your proposed explanation focuses on substitution (as in ملعقة/معلقة), which makes sense, but I've always perceived the ر in إجر as being an original لام (similar to ليت --> ريت)?  Do you think that might be another possibility?


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## Arabus

I doubt that Palestinian uses إجر. This is a Syrian word, so we're talking about Syrian. And don't tell me both رجل and إشي exist in Lebanese because Lebanese is a BS dialect-- it has zero value in historical linguistics.

Now you must differentiate between two types of glottal stop prefixes-- "prosthetic" glottal stops, which are added for phonological reasons, and "preformative" glottal stops, which are added for linguistic derivation.

The إ in إهو, is prosthetic. Other than this word, all the examples you've provided don't have prosthetic hamza's (unless you provide phonological explanations which indicate otherwise). So the only word that would be able to support your opinion on إيد is إهو, and this word proves nothing because, as I told you, ي and و are different from  other consonants, including هـ.


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## WadiH

Arabus said:


> I doubt that Palestinian uses إجر. This is a Syrian word, so we're talking about Syrian.



Where is Elroy when you need him?  I'm pretty sure I've heard this word from Palestinians and Jordanians, but I still don't see how this affects the etymology of إجر.


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## Abu Rashid

> Isn't إجر just a reflex of رجل?  That's what I've always assumed anyway.



I always thought it came from جرى


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## Arabus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Well isn't the root أ-ي-د itself derived from يد (similar to how, in English, "help" can be expressed as "giving a hand")?  Shouldn't we look at يد as a bi-lateral "proto-root" for أ-ي-د?  The two seem too similar to have come from completely different roots.



Yes, this is why I wrote ?ayd < *?ayad. The second word should have summarized all what you said. (BTW, yad- itslef comes from *?ad-, and please don't argue about that and think of the words أداة وأدّى etc.).



Wadi Hanifa said:


> Back to إجر, your proposed explanation focuses on substitution (as in ملعقة/معلقة), which makes sense, but I've always perceived the ر in إجر as being an original لام (similar to ليت --> ريت)? Do you think that might be another possibility?



OK, but you have to provide a full development chain and try to fit that step in somewhere...


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## WadiH

Arabus said:


> Yes, this is why I wrote ?ayd < *?ayad. The second word should have summarized all what you said.



Ok, so you're saying that an older word (أَيَد) produced both إيد and يد?

And just to clarify, you're saying that جرى and جرّ might ultimately derive from إجر?  It just seems so odd that such a basic root would go completely unmentioned by the classical scholars (if it is indeed absent from that literature).


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## cherine

Josh_ said:


> [...] in my experience it does seem like a more formal word only used in situations such as describing an injury to a doctor, or in set phrases such as كرة القدم. It is also used in measurements.[...] For every day, casual talk the word رجل seems to be the only term used.


Regarding كرة القدم we only say koora in Egyptian, so we can't use it as an example of the colloquial usage of the word قدم .
I agree that "adam" قدم is used for some measurements. Not all, because the metric system is the one commonly used in Egypt.
I've heard some people say adam for "foot", but I think it's a rural usage.


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## WadiH

cherine said:


> I've heard some people say adam for "foot", but I think it's a rural usage.



Great.  But if it's a rural usage, shouldn't be _gadam _rather than _2adam_?


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## cherine

Good point! Frankly, I'm not sure which pronunciation I heard (adam or gadam) but the sure thing is that the word قدم is used by some Egyptian for foot.
Hopefully other Egyptians will help with this.


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## Ghabi

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Where is Elroy when you need him?  I'm pretty sure I've heard this word from Palestinians and Jordanians, but I still don't see how this affects the etymology of إجر.


Before Elroy comes, that's what my PA dictionary (_The Olive Tree Dictionary: A Transliterated Dictionary of Conversational Eastern Arabic_ _(Palestinian)_,  by J. Elihay) says:





> _'ijer_: foot; leg. This word is more common than the word _rijel_, in urban speech at least.


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## Arabus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Ok, so you're saying that an older word (أَيَد) produced both إيد and يد?



No this is not what I said.



Wadi Hanifa said:


> It just seems so odd that such a basic root would go completely unmentioned by the classical scholars (if it is indeed absent from that literature).



Are you a native speaker? Is this the first root you don't find in Lissan Al-Arab?!


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## Mahaodeh

Arabus said:


> I doubt that Palestinian uses إجر. This is a Syrian word, so we're talking about Syrian. And don't tell me both رجل and إشي exist in Lebanese because Lebanese is a BS dialect-- it has zero value in historical linguistics.


 
Wow, that last statement is not expected from someone like you Arabus .

Anyway, I can assure you that Palestinians use إجر exclusively, I've never heard anyone say رجل. The same goes to Jordanians.


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## Arabus

Mahaodeh said:


> Anyway, I can assure you that Palestinians use إجر exclusively, I've never heard anyone say رجل. The same goes to Jordanians.



The word "exclusively" makes me certain that this statement is incorrect.


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## Mahaodeh

What I meant is that they don't use رجل.  Ok, I'll exclude Ghazzawi people because they sometimes have different expressions and I must admit that I don't know the dialect of beduins in the نقب - it's probably closer to other beduin dialects that it is to Shaami ones.

On another note, why do you insist that this expression is exclusive to Syrians? Why is it so hard to accept that it can be used by others?


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## Arabus

You seem to be paranoid or something. I know for sure that what you say is incorrect and that Palestinians use رجل. The same word is also used in most of Syria except the north, and this is what I said.

Now as for إجر, I said I doubt it is used in Palestinian, but Ghabi has quoted a dictionary which says it is used.


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## Arabus

You see, these weird cultural hypersensitivities are the reason why I have never been able to discuss dialect origins with native Arabic speakers. It always ends the same way, with somebody getting angry because they think I am trying to prove their dialect is "inferior" to mine, whatever that means.


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## Josh_

cherine said:


> Regarding كرة القدم we only say koora in Egyptian, so we can't use it as an example of the colloquial usage of the word قدم .
> I agree that "adam" قدم is used for some measurements. Not all, because the metric system is the one commonly used in Egypt.
> I've heard some people say adam for "foot", but I think it's a rural usage.


Oh yes, I should have known that.  I heard it many times when I was in Egypt, but I guess forgot since I have not been there for so long. Thanks for reminding I also just realized I've been spelling the word wrong.  It is كورة, not كرة.



Arabus said:


> You see, these weird cultural hypersensitivities are the reason why I have never been able to discuss dialect origins with native Arabic speakers. It always ends the same way, with somebody getting angry because they think I am trying to prove their dialect is "inferior" to mine, whatever that means.


I don't think anyone was thinking that or even insinuating that.  We're discussing the words for "foot" in the various dialects.  The subject of superiority/inferiority of dialect never came up (oh...except when you said that Lebanese was a BS dialect).  A guilty conscience needs no accuser, methinks.


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## Mahaodeh

Arabus said:


> You seem to be paranoid or something. I know for sure that what you say is incorrect and that Palestinians use رجل. The same word is also used in most of Syria except the north, and this is what I said.


 
I'm sorry if I seemed paranoid, my question was out of surprise and curiousity as it seemed odd to me that you would dismiss the posibility of Palestinians using إجر.  I assure you, however, that it did not cross my mind that there was any implication that one dialect was suprior to the other.

Now there may be some Palestinians that use رجل, while the area of Palestine is not so big, nonetheless, it does have more than one dialect; but I assure you that a considerable number of them would use إجر.


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## WadiH

Mahaodeh said:


> Anyway, I can assure you that Palestinians use إجر exclusively, I've never heard anyone say رجل. The same goes to Jordanians.



What about Iraq?  I know قدم appears in southern Iraq as _jidm/jidam_.  Any other words?  Does إجر appear in Iraq anywhere?


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## cherine

*Moderator note:*
*I was going to delete some off-topic comments and send a PM, but I think it's better to put it here.*
*Arabus, you're more than welcome to discuss dialects. You are not allowed to insult any dialect (calling it BS) or persons (calling them paranoid). I think the only paranoid person here is you (proof in your post # 32).*

*Please watch your tone in the forum. Such language will not be tolerated, and you've been warned before; that's why I didn't bother send you a private message.*


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## Xence

Wadi Hanifa said:


> What words are used for the "foot" that you know of? It doesn't have to be the dominant or most common word; just tell me whatever synonyms you know.


Beside رجل _re(d)jl_ (plural رجلين _re(d)jliin_), we also often use in Algeria كراع _kraa3_ (plural كرعين _ker3iin_)



> Also do you usually employ separate words for "foot" and "leg?"


"_leg_" is more often than not said صاق _Saag_ (plural صيقان _Sigaan_), but sometimes it's confused with "_foot_".


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## be.010

clevermizo said:


> The two words I'm familiar with in Levatine Dialects are رجل and إجر. Both are pluralized using "dual" patterns but are actual plurals and not duals: رجلين، إجرين.
> 
> قدم occurs, I believe, as the measurement "foot" with أقدام as the plural (as in "She's about 5 feet").
> 
> Both رجل and إجر refer to both the leg and the foot. I bet you could use قدم if you wanted to distinguish the foot specifically, but I'm not sure.


Exactly, I can confirm that (Except that we quite rarely use US measurement system).
And to add,  سيقان (in plural!) is also used to specifically distinguish legs...
** As far as I know, إجر is used across the Levant to some extent, I heard it many times by Lebanese and Palestinians. I'm not sure about the commonness of رجل, all I know it's been used in Damascus (at least) for a not very long time, and most educated people tend to prefer it...


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## Mahaodeh

Wadi Hanifa said:


> What about Iraq? I know قدم appears in southern Iraq as _jidm/jidam_. Any other words? Does إجر appear in Iraq anywhere?


 
In the south of Iraq, jidam can be use; but in central and notrthern Iraq, it's mostly rijil. You can also hear qadam, but I'm not too confident that it's part of the dialect because because it's not as common as rijil, so it may be a borrowing from MSA.

I'm not aware of any dialect in Iraq that uses إجر.



Xence said:


> Beside رجل _re(d)jl_ (plural رجلين _re(d)jliin_), we also often use in Algeria كراع _kraa3_ (plural كرعين _ker3iin_)


 
In Iraq you can also hear كَرَاعِيْن (in the plural, the singular is very rare). It's used is for sheep (equevalent to the EA كوارع) such as باجة وكراعين or for humans, mostly in a negative context such as: شنو هل كراعين الوسخة\الطويلة\المسلوعة. It refers to the legs, not the feet.

سيقان is also used for legs without feet; but it has a nutral tone (unlike كراعين) and the use of the singular ساق is also common.


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## clevermizo

Interestingly, if you want to actually make a dual out of إجر (since إجرين is just the plural) and say "two feet" or "two legs", I believe you say إجرتين . I'm not sure if رجلتين also exists.


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## Xence

Mahaodeh said:


> In Iraq you can also hear كَرَاعِيْن (in the plural, the singular is very rare). It's used is for sheep (equevalent to the EA كوارع) such as باجة وكراعين or for humans, mostly in a negative context such as: شنو هل كراعين الوسخة\الطويلة\المسلوعة. It refers to the legs, not the feet.


We also use it in a pejorative way in some phrases such as كرعين المعيز for describing a very bad football player/team, but usually it's more neutral.

Also a colloquial phrase which is a synonym of "_to walk_" is يضرب في الكارع


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## elroy

I just stumbled upon this thread.  What an interesting one! 

I can confirm that إجر is in fact used in Palestinian Arabic.  I have never heard a Palestinian from any part of Israel or the Palestinian Territories (or the Palestinian Diaspora, for that matter) say رجل.  If رجل is used at all, it's definitely a minority usage, so while I can't say for sure that إجر is used _exclusively_ in Palestinian Arabic, it is at least the most common word _by far_ for "foot" (or "leg").

In response to the question about differentiating between feet and legs, it's generally not done in Palestinian Arabic, and إجر is used for both.  سيقان is occasionally used for legs (although the singular ساق isn't used), but قدم is restricted to كرة قدم and measurements (in both contexts, it's pronounced "qadam" as in MSA).  In other words, we do not use قدم to distinguish feet from legs.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> But don't people say إيجي and بيجي ومابيجي?  At least in Palestine they do (someone correct me here).


 بيجي وما بيجي are used, but not إيجي (except that some children use it as an imperative form until they internalize تعال). 





clevermizo said:


> Interestingly, if you want to actually make a dual out of إجر (since إجرين is just the plural) and say "two feet" or "two legs", I believe you say إجرتين .


 Yup, that's correct.


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## Imad Net

In Algeria, we say : *رْجَلْ * (plural : *رجلين *) or *كْراع* (plural ♣: *كرعين *)


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi guys,

could you please help me with the word رِجْل because by reading some threads it seems that some people translate it by:
-foot
some others by
-leg
and sometimes I saw both.
Being 2 different words and part of the body I assume that there is one and unique meaning...
Does anybody know which one is the correct one?

And if it is leg is there any difference with ساق ?

Thanks in advance
Aurélien


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## analeeh

In a lot of colloquials (all colloquials?) the distinction between 'leg' and 'foot' is not really maintained, in my experience - your foot is just referred to as part of your leg. Even in English 'foot' is recognised as part of 'leg', but we tend to refer to the foot specifically for some reason if we are talking about that part of the leg. That tendency is not as strong in colloquial Arabic and perhaps not in literary Arabic either.

I don't _think_ there's any functional distinction between _rijl  _and _saaq_ but I imagine that at least old dictionaries will assert a minor distinction between them (often though I think these distinctions, if they ever really existed in the spoken language, have been long long gone in practice).


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## Hemza

In Moroccan, "رجل" is used for "leg" and "foot". At least, I've never heard "qdam/qadam" but it might exist, I have no idea.


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## aurelien.demarest

Thank you guys


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## tounsi51

In Tunisia the difference is among rural and urban

Urban: saaq
Rural: rejl


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## aurelien.demarest

interesting..


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## rahibsaleem

foot = قدم qadam
 رجل rijl meana foot and leg
ساق = foreleg lower leg
فخذ fixdz is thigh


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## aurelien.demarest

اشكرك يا رحيب سليم


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## water&sky

Mar7aba 

Am compiling a list of Lebanese terms for different body parts. However, I don't know some terms and I hoping someone could help me out. They are:

leg/legs

Shukran kteer


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## wriight

Ejr, ejRE:N
(this is a general term for all parts of the leg, and it means 'foot' as well. batt'a (yes, 'duck') is the calf and si:2a:n are thighs)
Acolon indicates lengthening of a vowel, an apostrophe after a letter indicates that it's emphatic, and capital letters are the stressed syllable
In Arabic script:

إجر، إجرين


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## water&sky

what about:

feet


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## wriight

Feet - ejRE:N إجرين _("foot" and "leg" use the same word, as mentioned above)_


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