# Umiesz liczyć, licz na siebie



## greentelephone

Hello!

Can anyone tell me what "*Umiesz liczyć, licz na siebie*" means please?
I know "liczyć na siebie" means to "rely on yourself", but I don't understand what the entire phrase means.

Thanks!


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## kknd

greentelephone said:


> Hello!
> 
> Can anyone tell me what "*Umiesz liczyć, licz na siebie*" means please?
> I know "liczyć na siebie" means to "rely on yourself", but I don't understand what the entire phrase means.
> 
> Thanks!



it's interesting connection: _liczyć_ means _to count_ in general; so _liczyć (tylko) na siebie_ indeed means _to rely (only) on yourself_—better translation would be _[if] you can count, count [only] on yourself_. it conveys message of utmost grief, irritation or anger because of somebody's dishonest/disloyality (etc.)


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## majlo

I would say it conveys a piece of advice that you shouldn't trust other people and/or commission them to do something, and that you should do it yourself instead. However, the context may be various, and everything depends on it.

The saying itself is basically a pun, which was more or less explained by kknd.


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## dreamlike

Kknd is right with his explanation.

*"Umiesz liczyć, licz na siebie"* is a pun on *"liczyć" *which has two (or even more) meanings - the process of adding up the numbers - counting, and the act of relying on someone. 

Umiesz liczyć? - Can you count? Did you acquire the ability to count numbers? 
Na niego nie można liczyć - He can't be relied upon

Does the phrase "If you can count, count on yourself?" sound natural to your native's ears, greentelephone? There are not many Google results on that, whereas the Polish phrase is a worn out cliché.


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## NotNow

It may also be used to encourage self-confidence.


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## greentelephone

Aha! "If you want something done properly, do it yourself"! Genius! Thank you!


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## dreamlike

Yes, something to that effect, but not exactly. The Polish phrase is more along the lines of "_It's a cruel world we live in, it's every man for himself."_


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## wolfbm1

Maybe it is similar to "suit yourself" and it could be said when one doesn't want somebody to rely too much on them and keep coming with every little problem and expect to get help. This remark can sound quite cold and ruthless. (Compare: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/31/messages/1088.html )
"Suit yourself" could also mean in Polish "Rób, jak uważasz!" = "Please yourself" or  "Jak chciałeś tak masz, więc teraz nie marudź" = "You chose it yourself so don't complain." And now rely on yourself.


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## majlo

dreamlike said:


> Yes, something to that effect, but not exactly. The Polish phrase is more along the lines of "_It's a cruel world we live in, it's every man for himself."_


That's your (over?)interpretation. To me its overtones can be as manifold as the contexts in which it can appear.


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## dreamlike

This phrase doesn't lend itself to numerous interpretations - the purport of it is rather clear. It's usually followed by something like (Twoje szczęście innych jebie). At least that's the way I heard people use it. 

Can you conceive of a context in which the person who uses it express something other than regret or anger, or things like these? To my mind, this phrase was coined to describe the harsh realities of the world we live in.


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## LilianaB

I think it is more: God helps those who help themselves.


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## dreamlike

That's better, but it's still not quite the message the Polish phrase imparts...


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## LilianaB

Homo homini lupus, would that be better?


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## dreamlike

Yes, precisely


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## LilianaB

I like wolves, don't take me wrong, they are among my favorite animals. I don't know why they compared them  to people. This proverb does not mean anything bad, it think. Wolves are just very independent and count on themselves, although they live in packs, so I am rather confused about the meaning of this proverb. Maybe somebody did not know the wolf ways too well. They probably meant the relationship between man and wolf, not wolf and wolf.


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## dreamlike

The meaning of this proverb *is *negative, but I agree that wolves should be replaced with some other animals. Reportedly, there has never been a documented attack against human, wolf being an agressor, in which this animal wasn't provoked by the human. I'm afraid wolves have always been looked upon as agressive and ravenous creatures


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## LilianaB

The new _Homo homini lupus _should read _Homo homini robotus_. ( I am not sure if robotus would be the real Latin form. I have to check) Sorry, I think it should be: Homo homini machina erectus.


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## majlo

To me "_It's a cruel world we live in, it's every man for himself."  _is too pompous an explanation. I mean, I'm not saying it's not possible, but even anger and regret can be interpreted differently according to context. For example, if you ask your brother to do the dishes for you, you come home and you notice a pile of plates in the sink. You go, _Umiesz liczyć, licz na siebie_. Is it anger? Does the situation fit for your interpretation of this saying?


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## Ben Jamin

For me dreamlike’s interpretation is too special and restricted. The phrase may mean what he said it means, but can also have other meanings, depending on context. For me, the phrase itself without context conveys essentially “rely on yourself”.


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## dreamlike

I don't consider it too pompous, Majlo, but then again I never heard it used in such a mundane contexts like the one you suggested. It seems like you're forcing the expression into the situation described. In this very case, my feelings would largely depend on the context. I would not probably be riven by anger, because one shouldn't excpect others to do a menial job for them. It's difficult to say, Majlo, it all depends on the context.


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## Stardusd

Hi!
I think that the second phrase is suggestive, and encouraging.
I have never heard it but the ideia for me is: when we give an advice for whom who is intelligent and poor.
Also, I have never heard this one in English, but I'll translate as I feel it: 
You are rich, enjoy the life!
In my family I  have heard a lot of this one- Masz naukę, Won w świat!


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## dreamlike

What are you referring to, Stardusd? What is the "second phrase" that you have in mind?

I've never heard "Masz naukę, won w świat!" although it makes perfect sense and has a certain appeal. I take "In my family" to mean that you have Polish origin?


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## Stardusd

Of course I have Polish blood! Take a look on my profile, and I live in Brazil where I was born. I am not soo young, my granfamily came to Brazil about 80 years ago. It could be an old saying that time, maybe it isn't used no more.
It means, this: Go away to world.  This translation is to the letter, maybe in English there is a more appropriate one.
When my family (grandma and mother) were to angry and I was too lazy, they often said this. It was 30 years ago, fortunately my mother doesn't mind about this any more. I don't mind too. And I stay at home.
We have a lot of unknown sayings in this world, and Poles are good in this stuff.


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