# FR:  quel / ce qui/que



## Ala888

Could someone explain to my the differences between Quelle/Ce qui/Ce que

I know they all roughly mean "what", but is there a difference to them ? or is it basically just all synonyms for one another and I can use any one without fear of error ?

and if they are different could someone provide me with 3 sentences that the 3 would be used in ?

right now they just look like synonyms to me:
like:
I just discovered what my real dream in life is 
Je vien de decouvrir quel est mon vrai reve dans ma vie
je vien de decouvrir ce qui est mon vrai reve dans ma vie
je vien de decouvrir ce que c'est mon vrai reve dans ma vie


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## Elvye

Hi,

First, in the three sentences you wrote, only the first one "Je vien_s_ de d_é_couvrir quel est mon vrai r_ê_ve dans ma vie" is correct to me. The others sound childish and you just wouldn't say that in proper French.

For example, you could use "ce qui" in "Ce qui signifie qu'il est..." (translates into "*which* means he is..."). In general, I would use "ce qui" when explaining something or its consequences. Or you could also use it when describing a situation, I don't know for example "Ce qui m'intéresse le plus dans cette affaire..." I would translate into " To me, the most interesting thing about this case is..."

"Ce que" generally points out a particular element or event. For example, "As-tu entendu *ce que *j'ai dit ?" -> "Did you hear *what* I said ?", you couldn't say "As-tu entendu quel est ce que j'ai dit" or something else. It does is similar to "ce qui". But you can't put "ce qui" before a pronoun, "ce qui tu as fait est inacceptable" isn't possible, it should be " ce _que_ tu as fait" ("*what* you did was unacceptable"), and you can't put "ce que" before a verb, as in "ce que vient d'arriver". You have to say "ce _qui_ vient d'arriver ("*what* just happened")

Other example : "Ce _que_ nous connaissons" but "Ce _qui_ est connu" ("What we know" / "What is known")

Also, I don't think "ce que" can be translated into "which", so that could help when you're in doubt (if you can replace your "what" by a "which", then it probably does not translate into a "ce que")

As for "quel", I'm sorry but it is used in so many different kind of sentences I can't think of general principles to give you.

I hope you understand the differences a little better now, though it must be difficult because yes, most of the time all of them mean "what". But then again this is just based on the way I would speak, I'm not a grammar master nor an english expert so I can't give you the proper rules, if they even exist.


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## Quintis

Hello,

I'll just add to what Elvye said. And propably others during the time I took to write this post. 

Generally, to connect phrases, the shorter the conjunction, the better it sounds. 

Your sentences are a bit flawed because one could easily make do without any conjunction in it.
_Je viens de decouvrir mon vrai rêve dans ma vie.

_Nonetheless the first one is perfectly correct and could be properly retranslated into your English original.
_
_Now, _ce qui_ implies emphasis and it is not a good way to quickly link your two phrases because you must precise to what _qui _refers.
An example :
_Je viens de decouvrir comment devenir secouriste, ce qui est mon vrai rêve dans ma vie.
_
In this case _qui_ refers to _devenir secouriste._ 
Notice that you could make do without keeping the part of the sentence after the conjunction and the sentence would be comprehensible. 
It is because_ ce qui_ only adds emphasis. It could be translated as a _which_.

Now the third one is not correct because the_ c'_ is superfluous. It is a repetition of the previous _ce_. It looks clumsy because the conjunction is too long.
Hence it should be:

je viens de decouvrir ce qu'est mon vrai rêve dans ma vie

Now, there is not much difference between ce que and quel in this context. Both are fine but _quel_ is rarely used as a conjunction nowadays so perhaps ce que would be better.

Also, I would replace _ma vie_ with _la vie, _it is the best translation of _life_ in general.


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## jxi1827

Hi all,
I know this probably will seem like a very basic question and something I should already know, but I didn't come across it until very recently.  I was wondering how you decide if to use "quel"(or quelle, quels, quelles, quels) or "ce qui".  For example, in this following case why would you use quelle and not ce qui? 
       Je sais quel est ton rêve.  

I think it's because it goes before a noun, but I'm not sure.  Then, what really confused me is which one to use between "Je sais ___" "est à toi" or "est le tien" since I can't tell if est à toi or est le tien are acting as nouns or what.

Thanks in advance for all your help!


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## Maître Capello

_Quel_, etc. are interrogative pronouns, while _(ce) qui/que_ are relative pronouns.

_Quel est ton rêve ?_ ↔ What is your dream?
_Je sais quel est ton rêve._ ↔ I know what your dream is.
_Quel est le bon chemin ?_ ↔ What is the right path?
_Je ne sais pas quel est le bon chemin._ ↔ I don't know what the right path is.

But:

_Je sais ce qui est à toi._ ↔ I know what belongs to you. (what = the things that)
_Ce que je pense n'est pas important._ ↔ What I think is unimportant.

On a similar topic, see also FR: lequel / (celui/ce) qui/que - "which" w/o any preposition.


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## jxi1827

Thanks! But, I'm caught up on the idea of using them in statements since quel in those cases doesn't seem like an interrogative pronoun. Why would you say "Je sais quel est ton rêve" and not "Je sais ce qui est ton rêve."? Also, I'm still confused on "Je sais ce qui est à toi" because one of my French friends told me that you could use either, so how is that the case? Thanks again

Quintis, why would you use "ce qu'est" when it's ce qui? I thought qui can not contract and that only que could. Thanks.


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## Maître Capello

jr364574 said:


> Why would you say "Je sais quel est ton rêve" and not "Je sais ce qui est ton rêve."?


Actually, _quel_ is still an interrogative pronoun in _Je sais *quel* est ton rêve_. You can always find a corresponding direct question:

_Je sais *quel* est ton rêve_. → _Quel est ton rêve ?_ / I know what your dream is. → What is your dream?

Anyway, you may also say, with more or less the same meaning, _Je sais *ce qu'*est ton rêve_. However, _Je sais ce qui est ton rêve_ is not correct appropriate. (Regarding the difference between _ce qui _and _ce que_, see FR: ce qui / ce que / ce dont.)



> Also, I'm still confused on "Je sais ce qui est à toi" because one of my French friends told me that you could use either, so how is that the case?


What do you mean by "use either"? either what?  You may only say, _Je sais ce qui est à toi_. (_Je sais quel est à toi_. )


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## timpeac

Maître Capello said:


> What do you mean by "use either"? either what?  You may only say, _Je sais ce qui est à toi_. (_Je sais quel est à toi_. )


Not to muddy the water further, but I think jr is thinking of_ je sais lequel est à toi _which if you think about it does go against the general pattern. The problem is that in English we can ask "what is yours?", "which one is yours?" and "which is yours?". This last one is only a shortened form of the second but it looks on appearance that it should follow the "quel" translation.

Jr - the reason you can't say "je sais quel est à toi" is that the original "full" question is not "quel est à toi ?" but "lequel est à toi ?".


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## jxi1827

Okay, thanks so much, everyone!  I guess the thing that still confuses me is how you decide if you need "ce qui" or "quel" in a phrase like "Je sais quel est ton rêve."  I think I decided that I could tell if I needed quel or ce qui by asking if it's followed by a noun, but is that always the case?  Because, normally, without paying attention, I would put "ce qui" since the word following is a verb, and therefore making me think I should use ce qui.  

Thanks again!


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## Maître Capello

The pronoun _quel_ can only be used with the verb _être_. So, when the verb is different from _être_, you may only use _ce qui_ or _ce que_.

I know *what* you mean. → _Je sais *ce que* vous voulez dire._
I know *what* is troubling you. → _Je sais *ce qui* vous trouble._
*What* doesn't kill you makes you stronger. → _*Ce qui* ne vous tue pas vous rend plus fort._

If the verb is _être_, you should check whether you can replace "what" by "the thing(s) that", "that which" (the literal translation of _ce qui/que_) – in which case you may use _ce qui/__que_ – or if you can replace it with "which" alone – in which case you may use _quel_. So sometimes both phrases are possible.

I know *what* is difficult. → I know *"the thing that"* is difficult. → _Je sais *ce qui* est difficile._
I know *what* arthritis is. → I know *"the thing that"* is arthritis. → _Je sais *ce qu'*est l'arthrite._

I know *what* the right path is. → I know *"which"* the right path is _→_ _Je sais *quel* est le bon chemin._

I know *what* your dream is. → (a) I know *"the thing that"* is your dream. _→_ _Je sais *ce qu'*est ton rêve._ / (b) I know *"which"* your dream is.  _→_ _Je sais *quel* est ton rêve._


When "what" is not used as a pronoun but as an adjective, hence when used with a noun, you should always use _quel_.

I know *what* car he is driving. → _Je sais *quelle* voiture il conduit._
I know *what* kind of person he is. → _Je sais *quel* type de personne il est._


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## Beauceron-puppy

Ala888 
quel; ce qui ; ce que ; 

Je vais te donner des  exemples comme ça tu pourras les réutiliser et te faire une idée d' une  règle que de toute façon je ne peux pas t'expliquer tant l'utilisation  des uns ou des autres m' est naturelle, étant donné que le français est  ma langue maternelle

Je viens de comprendre quel était mon problème ; quel est mon véritable atout ; quelle est la différence etre X et Y 
---------------------- ce qui m'a posé problême durant l'examen ; ce qui me donnait la diarrhée ; ce qui ne lui a pas plût
---------------------- ce que je n'avais jamais compris ; ce que ma copine représente pour moi ; ce que j'aurais dû faire

Je viens de découvrir quel parfum elle portait ce soir là ; quelle voiture il a acheté ; quelles affaires j'aurais dû emporter
-------------------- ce qui me rend irresistible ; ce qui m 'énerve ; ce qui fait d'elle la plus belle femme de la Terre
-------------------- ce qu'il voulait faire ; ce qu' elle cachait ; ce que signifie le mot amour

J'espère que ça pourras t'aider


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## jxi1827

http://forum.wordreference.com/member.php?u=162742Maître Capello, merci beaucoup! But, I am a bit confused with your following phrase: I know *what arthritis is. → I know "the thing that" is arthritis. → Je sais ce qu'est l'arthrite.*
Could you also have said "Je sais quel est l'arthrite"?  Also, I'm still confused on why you would say ce qu'est and not ce qui est, since it still seems to me like it's acting as a subject in this sentence.  

Beauceron-puppy, ça m'aide beaucoup, merci!  Mais, si on ne parle pas le langage soutenu, peut-on dire "Je viens de comprendre ce qu'était mon problème"?  Merci!


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## Beauceron-puppy

Oui tout à fait, on peut le dire et ça reste une syntaxe élaborée.


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## Maître Capello

jr364574 said:


> I know *what arthritis is. → I know "the thing that" is arthritis. → Je sais ce qu'est l'arthrite.*
> Could you also have said "Je sais quel est l'arthrite"?


No, only _ce qu'est_ is correct. You couldn't also say, "I know which is arthritis," could you? (Well, unless you were asking which is arthritis among two afflictions…)



> Also, I'm still confused on why you would say ce qu'est and not ce qui  est, since it still seems to me like it's acting as a subject in this  sentence.


In English, you say, "I know what arthritis is," not "I know what is arthritis." "Arthritis" is indeed the subject, not the predicate. Consequently the predicate is "what," which is why you must use _que_ in French, not _qui_. For more details and examples, please read FR: ce qui / ce que / ce dont. If this is still unclear, please ask your question there.


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## bcd85

I'm having trouble distinguishing the usage of these two phrases.

If I wanted to say "I don't know what the problem is?" Would it be "Je ne sais pas quel est le problem?" or "Je ne sais pas ce qui est le problem?"

When the "what is" is placed in the middle of a sentence I have trouble understanding whether to use quel or ce qui.

If someone could explain which one is required and why, thanks.


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## janpol

J'ignore quel est le problème.


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## Zack.PA

I don't know *what* the problem *is* = Je ne sais pas *quel est* le problème.
I don't know *what* the news *are* = Je ne sais pas *quelles* *sont* les nouvelles
Actually, in both sentences, "what" refers to the subject in a phrase where it *IS* something (and you don't know it yet). The answer would be : "The problem is..." "The news are..."
To be simple, *quel est* only works for : blabla... *what....is*.

If "is/are" is not in the end, then you'll have to use ce qui/ce que.

I don't know *what burned* my hands = Je ne sais pas ce qui a brulé mes mains. (No "is/are" at the end => no "quel est")
Here, "what" refers to the subject in a sentence where it DOES/DID something, the verb "burn" has a subject (what) and an object (the hands).

I don't know *what burned* = Je ne sais pas ce qui a brulé. (No "is/are" at the end => no "quel est")

I don't know *what* *happened* = Je ne sais pas ce qui s'est passé (you know the drill...)

CE QUE :
When what refers to he object of the sentence :

I don't know *what* he *told* you = Je ne sais pas *ce qu*'il t'*a dit *(no is/are at the end... plus here the subject is "he", not "what", "what" is the object => ce que)
I don't know *what* you *have eaten* (to be so sick) = Je ne sais pas *ce que *tu *as mangé *(no is/are at the end...  here the subject is "you", not "what", "what" is the object => ce que)

Hope it helps


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