# Dialects or Regional Variations of Spanish



## stevea

I notice that some Spanish forum members add clarification to their profiles for the Spanish they speak. Which regional variaions are considered "official" and which would be considered dialects?


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## Cabeza tuna

Every regional variacion is official of their countries for example I am chilean, and I speak a very chilean spanish, I undestand and use words than any other countries in LA or even Spain use. In Argentina for example they use accents in a very particular way, and beside of "tú" they say "vos" and somethings like that.
This happend because in this countries the spanish was mixed with indigenous  words.


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## stevea

What about variations within each Spanish speaking country?


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## Cabeza tuna

In the most of the case doesnt exist, at least when you writte maybe the accent can change but nothing else, Chile for example is the longest country in the world we have desert and antartic but every chilean speak with the same accent and in the same way.


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## Cabeza tuna

Usually when Tv series are translated they do two version one for Spain and other one for Mexico, central, and south America, one example is "The simpsons", in Spain the voice of "Homer" is totally differente than the LA "Homer" you can see the difference in you tube.


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## stevea

It's amazing that there is so much consistency in a country like Chile with its geographical spread - I've never thought about this before. The regional dialects in the UK can be difficult for non-locals and we have other celtic languages here that are impossible for most people.


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## Grekh

Well, in Mexico there are some variations depending on the part of the country you live in, and we sometimes don't understand some words, but that's it. The variation doesn't go further, it's only words.


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## Cabeza tuna

In south some very old people doesn't speak spanish just "mapudungun" but they are very old and very few the same happend in the easter island were they speak a local dialect but they also speak spanish without accent.


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## stevea

Are the variations officially recognised? In Spain Catalonian is treated as a separate language isn't it?


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## Grekh

Now that you mention "mapundungun" in Chile, in Mexico there are several languages spoken and some of these people who speak these languages don't speak Spanish, but most of them do because they tend to integrate to the bigger Spanish-speaking society.




			
				stevea said:
			
		

> Are the variations officially recognised?


 
As I mentioned, in Mexico the variations are not so marked, therefore there's no need to recognize them officially...it's just that we have different accents and some differences in vocabulary, but that's it...


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## Cabeza tuna

In Spain they have some dialects yes, they have "Catalan", "Vasco" and some others.


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## CarolMamkny

We've talked about this many times before. Here's a link that can help you: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=189914&highlight=spanish+dialects

There are many differences in the Spoken language according to the country and region the speaker comes from. However, there is no "official" variation of Spanish- We do not say the official language of Argentina is "argentian"- If you want to know more about "vasco", "catalan", etc. You can find many threads about this topic.- Saludos


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## Miguelillo 87

Well a my other fellows had said, Spanish is only one language, and We understand all, from Spain to Argentina; maybe (as Grehk has said) some word or expressions are different; in the speak mayeb some accents are difficult to get'em at first, later you get udes to them and you understand them perfectly,in the writing is even easier, as you can see in this forum. 

Now We are talking about a whole different world if we speak about the own languages each spanish speaking country has, As you know Spain has Vasco, Gallego and Catalan, even Catalan has its own forum here.

In Mexico we have Totonaca, Nahuatl, Otomí, Maya, Zapoteco etc, those languages are totally different to Spanish; because they were spoken before Spanish arrived to America. The same happens almost in all Latin America countries were a lot of civilizations were already stablished before the colonisation by europeans.

Even USA have this different languages. 

About the officiality of this languages; Well in Mexico Spanish is the official language, but the constitution recognaize that the other languages exists and people can talk and write them, for example there are books for elemantary school writen in those languages and they are given by the Education Minister (SEP, Scretaría de Educación Pública) by free.


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## Cabeza tuna

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Well a my other fellows had said, Spanish is only one language, and We understand all, from Spain to Argentina; maybe (as Grehk has said) some word or expressions are different; in the speak mayeb some accents are difficult to get'em at first, later you get udes to them and you understand them perfectly,in the writing is even easier, as you can see in this forum.
> 
> Now We are talking about a whole different world if we speak about the own languages each spanish speaking country has, As you know Spain has Vasco, Gallego and Catalan, even Catalan has its own forum here.
> 
> In Mexico we have Totonaca, Nahuatl, Otomí, Maya, Zapoteco etc, those languages are totally different to Spanish; because they were spoken before Spanish arrived to America. The same happens almost in all Latin America countries were a lot of civilizations were already stablished before the colonisation by europeans.
> 
> Even USA have this different languages.
> 
> About the officiality of this languages; Well in Mexico Spanish is the official language, but the constitution recognaize that the other languages exists and people can talk and write them, for example there are books for elemantary school writen in those languages and they are given by the Education Minister (SEP, Scretaría de Educación Pública) by free.


 
That is very strange to me here, if you speak something than is not spanish you are part of a vry small group, the goberment doesnt give text books in mapudungun or in any other pre-hispanic lenguague, I know than Microsoft do a Mapundun version of Windows Xp


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## Miguelillo 87

Cabeza tuna said:


> That is very strange to me here, if you speak something than is not spanish you are part of a vry small group, the goberment doesnt give text books in mapudungun or in any other pre-hispanic lenguague, I know than Microsoft do a Mapundun version of Windows Xp


 
Well here, it's not given in all prehispanic languages onnly on theprincipals, as Nahuatl, Otomí and I'm not sure if in Maya; but for example in Yucatán were Maya is spoken still they have even newspapers and radio stations in this language; also in Wikipedia you can find a page in Maya and Nahuatl as in French, Czech, Portugese, etc. 

Nahuatl is given in many schools as a second language.


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## Agró

Cabeza tuna said:


> In Spain they have some dialects yes, they have "Catalan", "Vasco" and some others.



Catalan, Galician and Basque are not dialects, they are separate languages.


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## Miguelillo 87

Agró said:


> Catalan, Galician and Basque are not dialects, they are separate languages.


 
Maybe I'm wrong because I'm going to talk for anothers (voy a hablar por otros) the problem here it's in Mexico teacher teach us that Nahuatl or other minor language are dialectos, and that's false, maybe it's a problem in definitions.


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## Agró

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Maybe I'm wrong because I'm going to talk for anothers (voy a hablar por otros) the problem here it's in Mexico teacher teach us that Nahuatl or other minor language are dialectos, and that's false, maybe it's a problem in definitions.



El hecho de que las lenguas sean minoritarias no las convierte en dialectos. La mayoría de las lenguas son minoritarias, de hecho, en comparación con las lenguas "grandes", que no son muchas en el mundo. En España, hay cinco lenguas: español, gallego, vasco, aranés y catalán. Cada una de ellas tiene sus dialectos o variantes locales.


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## CarolMamkny

Agró said:


> El hecho de que las lenguas sean minoritarias no las convierte en dialectos. La mayoría de las lenguas son minoritarias, de hecho, en comparación con las lenguas "grandes", que no son muchas en el mundo. En España, hay cinco lenguas: español, gallego, vasco, aranés y catalán. Cada una de ellas tiene sus dialectos o variantes locales.



Vale la pena que nos informemos y que si vamos a discutir el tema tengamos claro que es un lenguaje y que es un dialecto. Estoy de acuerdo con Angró. El que diga que el "vasco" es un dialecto del español es mejor que ni participe en esta discusión. Aqi les va la definición de la RAE sobre lo que es un dialecto: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=dialecto


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## Cabeza tuna

CarolMamkny said:


> Vale la pena que nos informemos y que si vamos a discutir el tema tengamos claro que es un lenguaje y que es un dialecto. Estoy de acuerdo con Angró. El que diga que el "vasco" es un dialecto del español es mejor que ni participe en esta discusión. Aqi les va la definición de la RAE sobre lo que es un dialecto: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=dialecto


 

El vasco es cierto no es un dialecto el resto provienen o tienen raices del español tan y claras y son tan locales que pienso que podrian ser dialectos perfectamente.


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## CarolMamkny

Lamento no estar de acuerdo contigo pero yo me voy con lo que aprendí en la universidad y con lo que dicen los EXPERTOS en el tema de la RAE. Es más segun el DRAE: Catálan: 3. m. Lengua romance vernácula que se habla en Cataluña y en otros dominios de la antigua Corona de Aragón.-  No veo la palabra dialecto por ningún lado-Saludos


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## Cabeza tuna

¿Cuan popular o qué cantidad de personas que le hablen debe tener una lengua para ser cosiderado un lenguaje?


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## CarolMamkny

Cabeza tuna said:


> ¿Cuan popular o qué cantidad de personas que le hablen debe tener una lengua para ser cosiderado un lenguaje?



Las palabras LENGUA y LENGUAJE son sinónimos. Las diferencias entre un lenguaje y un dialecto no se basan en popularidad si no en su estructura gramatical, vocabulario etc. 

Lengua: argot, idioma, tierra, lenguaje, sinhueso, habla, franja, jerigonza, germanía, jerga, unión, dialecto  

http://diccionarios.elmundo.es/dicc...ml?busca=lengua&submit=+Buscar+&diccionario=2


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## Miguelillo 87

Cabeza tuna said:


> El vasco es cierto no es un dialecto el resto provienen o tienen raices del español tan y claras y son tan locales que pienso que podrian ser dialectos perfectamente.


 
Creo compañero Chileno que yo tampoco he de estar de acuerdo contigo, una cosa es que (en mi caso) eso me hayan hehco creer y otra que es lo correcto, el Nahuatl, otomí (no puedo hablar de vasco y gallego) auqnue hoy en día están muy INFLUIDAS por el español, no las haces un dialeco del mismo, pues sus orígenes no vienen de esta lengua, sólo toma prestada algunas palabras, quiero suponer pasa lo mismo con las lenguas que conviven en España.


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## Cabeza tuna

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Creo compañero Chileno que yo tampoco he de estar de acuerdo contigo, una cosa es que (en mi caso) eso me hayan hehco creer y otra que es lo correcto, el Nahuatl, otomí (no puedo hablar de vasco y gallego) auqnue hoy en día están muy INFLUIDAS por el español, no las haces un dialeco del mismo, pues sus orígenes no vienen de esta lengua, sólo toma prestada algunas palabras, quiero suponer pasa lo mismo con las lenguas que conviven en España.


 
Todos excepto el vasco (que una vez me dijo uno que nadie sabia de donde venia y que por eso bromean con que son marcianos) son derivaciones primero del latin y luego del castellano, creo que es solo este ultimo el que ha logrado ser un idioma y no un simple dialecto local.


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## CarolMamkny

Cabeza tuna said:


> Todos excepto el vasco (que una vez me dijo uno que nadie sabia de donde venia y que por eso bromean con que son marcianos) son derivaciones primero del latin y luego del castellano, creo que es solo este ultimo el que ha logrado ser un idioma y no un simple dialecto local.



Bueno, ya que no nos crees a nosotros ni al los ilustres miembros de la RAE y sigues diciendo que el Gallego y el Catalán son dialectos del español (¡Ojo! ten en cuenta la historia del nacimiento de estas lenguas, una cosa era lo hablado en Castilla y otra en Galica), me gustaría que nos dieras pruebas contundentes (no solo tu opinió personal) de lo que hace de estos dialectos y no lenguajes- Saludos


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## Dr. Quizá

No es por joder, pero si se sigue desviando el tema del hilo, le caerá un candado SEGURO. Los que llevamos aquí tiempo sabemos que los moderadores no se andan con chiquitas.




stevea said:


> I notice that some Spanish forum members add clarification to their profiles for the Spanish they speak. Which regional variaions are considered "official" and which would be considered dialects?



The "norma culta" is the non-colloquial speech that is used in formal contexts, official texts and such, and it's practically the same everywhere and it's local nuances are close to zero. It's the basis of taught Spanish and of the Spanish we use here at WR as well, so I don't think you will able to find a Spanish speaker that won't understand you if you speak properly that way. I dare to say Spanish is much more compact than English mostly due to this "norma culta" (and the simpler phonetics).


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## Agró

Cabeza tuna said:


> El vasco es cierto no es un dialecto el resto provienen o tienen raices del español tan y claras y son tan locales que pienso que podrian ser dialectos perfectamente.



No tienen raíces del español, ni provienen de él. Provienen del latín, al igual que el francés, el portugués, el rumano, el italiano, etc. El aranés en concreto es una variedad del occitano o Langue d'Oc, que a su vez proviene del latín, también. ¿Qué significa que son locales, que tienen pocos hablantes? Un poco de rigor, por favor.


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## ampurdan

stevea said:


> I notice that some Spanish forum members add clarification to their profiles for the Spanish they speak. Which regional variaions are considered "official" and which would be considered dialects?



There is no "official" recognition of varieties. Educated people in all Spanish-speaking countries just speak and, in a lesser degree, write differently. I guess what makes all those varieties the same language is that there is a core common educated language. 

It is my understanding that variety and dialect is all the same, when it comes to languages.


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## mirx

stevea said:


> I notice that some Spanish forum members add clarification to their profiles for the Spanish they speak. Which regional variaions are considered "official" and which would be considered dialects?


 
This is very important, especially in the "only Spanish forum". People from different countries will have sometimes significant variations in usage and lexicon. I am aware of the great variety of accents of the UK, I don't know, however, if these accents are also accompanied by a different usage of grammar or if certain words are preferred.

In large, due to the existance of other languages in the territories that Spain or the crown of Castille conquered, Spanish spoken in the colonized lands is very influenced by these former languages. In big countries that had different pre-columbian civilizations and where different langauges were spoken the variation of Spanish dialects is more apparent. The south and north of México have very important variations, and is more like peoples and dialects from two different countries.

This irregularities only grow bigger throughout LA, to the extent that some countries actually use other personal pronouns with its corresponding conjugations. Spain also has its share of this, and perhaps even bigger in comparison to all the Americas. 

So we write our "dialect" for clarification purposes and perhaps to help with context on a given thread, although not exlcusive, these kind of variations are more apparent on colloquial usage and less common or nil on a more educated level of speaking.

By the way, "español de Cataluña" is not the same as Catalonian like some foreros seem to believe; the 1st is a variation of Castillian spoken in Catalonia and the second is the native language on the region and is a language derived from Latin and not from Spanish.

Same applies to other langauges like Gallician or Valenciano(variation of Catalonian) .


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## Agró

mirx said:


> Same applies to other langauges like Gallician or Valenciano(variation of Catalonian) .



I'm afraid not, as Valencian is not a language, but a variety/dialect of Catalan, as you say, whereas Galician is indeed a language.


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## mirx

Agró said:


> I'm afraid not, as Valencian is not a language, but a variety/dialect of Catalan, as you say, whereas Galician is indeed a language.


 
Sorry you misunderstood me, I should have added a *coma *in there.


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## Tanotelo

Realmente no sé que ha pasado en este tema que se ha generado una confusión al punto que se ha considerado al vasco dialecto del castellano.

Stevea, sí existen los dialectos y las variaciones en el español. El modo de hablar de los argentinos, p. ej. podría ser considerado un dialecto. E incluso dentro de cada país puede haber variaciones, como en el caso del Perú donde la gente de la selva tiene un léxico y acento particulares.


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## stevea

One of the reasons for asking the question followed a visit to Valencia. From my basic knowledge of Spanish, I could see there where there was both Valencian and Spanish (on street signs for instance) that there was a great similarity yet for some Valencian was a different language. I was wondering how far you need to go from the original before it is considered a different language when the differences between Latin American Spanish and Castillian is not considered to be different enough. I presume that a large part of such a decision is made up of political considerations and feelings about regional identity.


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## ampurdan

Hi Stevea, Valencian is not far from the "original" Spanish. Valencian is a different language (well, Catalan is, of which Valencian is a variety). I see you tend to think of languages of what is spoken by most people in one country and whatever is spoken by minorities, if it has some resemblance to the language of the majority, then it is a dialect of that majority language, no matter what its real origin is. Catalan-Valencian is derived directly from Latin. It has had Spanish influence afterwards, obviously, but not to the extent of making it a dialect of Spanish.

In other words: Mexicans and Spaniards can talk in their respective varieties of Spanish and they would understand each other. If a Catalan spoke in Catalan to another Spaniard who does not know Catalan, that other Spaniard would have a hard time trying to understand.

I guess the fact that Catalan had a long history of written literature is something that has helped people realize about it.


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## ivanovic77

I totally confirm ampurdan's words. Please people, check dictionary and encyclopedia before posting.

(Qué nivelazo. Lo mejor que podrían hacer los moderadores es tirar de candado y eliminar posts (incluido éste). Hacía tiempo que no veía un hilo tan lleno de disparates. Lo que no entiendo es cómo ha ido a parar al foro de cultura...)


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## Hulalessar

stevea said:


> I could see there where there was both Valencian and Spanish (on street signs for instance) that there was a great similarity yet for some Valencian was a different language.


 
You may well have found the same if the street signs were in Spanish and Italian or Portuguese.



stevea said:


> I was wondering how far you need to go from the original before it is considered a different language when the differences between Latin American Spanish and Castillian is not considered to be different enough. I presume that a large part of such a decision is made up of political considerations and feelings about regional identity.


 
The problem is that the word "dialect" carries a whole lot of baggage with it. It ought not to be the case that whether or not a "way of speaking" is a language or dialect depends on factors such as how long it has been written down or how fiercely it is defended, but it tends to be the case. Even for linguists who try to ignore these factors there can be no hard and fast divisions because the "ways of speaking" in one language area may vary in different ways from the "ways of speaking" in another language area - it is all relative and to a linguist there are only dialects! I suggest you have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect for a discussion on the subject.

When it comes to Castillian and Catalan all that can be said without applying to either the label of dialect or language is that they are separate parallel developments from Latin. It is not the case that there was an early form of Castillian that then split into modern Castillian and Catalan. From this perspective if Catalan is a dialect of anything it is, with Castillian, a dialect of Latin.

It should be noted that for some the question of whether Valencian and Catalan are separate languages is not settled. Many Valencians perceiving, whether rightly or wrongly is not for me to say, that the Catalans to the north wish to exercise linguistic hegemony over them (just as those Catalans to the north may perceive that Madrid wishes to exercise a similar hegemony over them) emphasise the differences between Valencian and Catalan and insist that Valencian is a language and not a dialect.


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## stevea

Hulalessar,

Very helpful answer. One of the reasons for asking the question was to see what "everyday" speakers thought about the variations rather than discovering what is the academic's view. I was trying to see what importance was attached to the qualifiers in user's profiles and whether or not it had a bearing the replies to questions of learners like myself.


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## danielfranco

The only dialect that matters in this discussion is Mexican Spanish. The rest of the local flavors of Spanish in Latin America and, indeed, in the rest of the Spanish-speaking universe, are pretty much in step with the modern standard Spanish.
In Mexico, because of it's self-imposed or otherwise socioeconomic isolation from the rest of the Spanish-speaking world, and the influence of over two hundred (200!!) native languages, Mexican Spanish is a veritable carnival ride of regionalisms, archaisms, galicisms, anglisisms, and many other -isms that surely ought to establish it as a certifiable dialect in full splendor and might. Within this dialect, each region—nay, sometimes even each social stratum—has its own colloquial variant, often plagued with slang, which often is unintelligible to other strata within even the same region.

But I have no sources for this diatrabe, except wild supposition and sheer cheek.
Sorry.
D


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## Dr. Quizá

Qué tontería más ombliguista; como si eso no pasara en todas partes.


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## Dr. Quizá

stevea said:


> One of the reasons for asking the question followed a visit to Valencia. From my basic knowledge of Spanish, I could see there where there was both Valencian and Spanish (on street signs for instance) that there was a great similarity yet for some Valencian was a different language. I was wondering how far you need to go from the original before it is considered a different language when the differences between Latin American Spanish and Castillian is not considered to be different enough. I presume that a large part of such a decision is made up of political considerations and feelings about regional identity.



Well, I guess this is especially confusing to English speakers since English is not really close to any language but a mix of old Germanic and old French cooked in an isolated land with later lots of other foreign bits, but in the European continuum most languages are closer to their neighbour brothers and not considered dialects except if we talk on a common, old, dead ancestor. So Portuguese, Spanish and Catalan are to each other as German, Danish and Dutch, for example, whilst Basque is as close as Japanese (even less than Welsh and English). But you're so right if you think politics has a lot to do with all this. Just pay attention to Chinese example, which is just the opposite. I suggest to avoid all this label war and keep pragmatic.


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## chics

Hello - Hola

In Spain five languages are spoken : Spanish, Basque, Catalan, Galician and Aranès (Lenguadoc). All of them have their grammar, their history, their literature, etc. The origin of Basque is very different of main of live languages while the others come from Latin and are "sisters" between them: at first Latin was spoken but little by little it become to change as differents languages began to appear : Galician-Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, French, Italian, etc. and even other languages that doesn't axit anymore, or that exist but whith a pre-language status. After, Portuguese and galician slipped into two languages. Catalan is spoken also in Andorra, in a little par of France and it was spoken in the south of Italy,  and it's said to be spoken in a town in Cerdeña until today. The language of Oc or Provenzal is spoken also in the south of France and in some areas in Italy.

In Spain there are two big dialects, north and south, and a lot of dialects and differents ways of speaking. Think for example in Andalucía. As it hapens with the UK, as Spain has a very longer history, differences between dialects are bigger and there are a great amount of small areas which change quickly as in America, in general for both Engish and Spanish is more homogene, whith only some big surfaces with little differences, comparing with Europe, among them.


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## Hulalessar

chics said:


> In Spain five languages are spoken : Spanish, Basque, Catalan, Galician and Aranès (Lenguadoc).


 
This site makes it rather more: http://es.geocities.com/cursetaragones/enlacesara.htm

See also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dialects_and_varieties


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## Mate

Nota del moderador:

Este hilo se ha enredado a un punto tal que lo mejor a esta altura es cerrarlo. 

Gracias a todos por su comprensión.

Hilo cerrado.


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