# Persian and Urdu: بہ beh.



## harkabir

*Moderator note:* *The topic under discussion in this thread began** here*.



BelligerentPacifist said:


> There's no exception there IMV. _beh_/_bah_-بہہ is a perfectly alright albeit in Urdu uncommon way of saying _good_.
> 
> We discussed it in an earlier thread about an year ago.



 to be honest if I was to go to Urdu Bazaar in Chandni Chowk right now and say " بہہ کھی" or " بہہ ھوتا" or "بہہ  سورت" I would only get blank stares in return. As you have pointed out it is uncommon. I just wanted to put across that in some rare cases different roots are used for the varying degrees of the adjective, thought is a extremely rare.

However I have learnt a nice thing with this بہہ  and now it has got me thinking. I will look up بہہ in some sources. I know that خوب has been used since a very long time but perhaps بہہ was also quite regular earlier. It shall be explored.

شكريا


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## Koozagar

harkabir said:


> to be honest if I was to go to Urdu Bazaar in Chandni Chowk right now and say " بہہ کھی" or " بہہ ھوتا" or "بہہ  سورت" I would only get blank stares in return.
> شكريا



I am sure you would . I have never heard those comparatives either. I think you are generalizing the use of 'beh' from 'behtar' to construct comparative degrees. I don't think 'beh' was ever used instead of 'khoob'. Would love to hear from others on it.
*شکریہ*


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## Faylasoof

Koozagar said:


> I am sure you would. I have never heard those comparatives either. I think you are generalizing the use of 'beh' from 'behtar' to construct comparative degrees. I don't think 'beh' was ever used instead of 'khoob'. Would love to hear from others on it.
> *شکریہ*


 Koozagar you seem very sure about this! 

Sure! Actaully, بِہْ_ beh _was / is used instead of  خوب_ xuub_, even if it is in Urdu poetry:

*خوشبو اسی دہن کی **بہ** از عود و مشک ہے*
*سوکھے ہیں تیرے ہونٹ لہو میرا خشک ہے* 

   ( *آرزو لکھنوی*

... and Aarzuu / Arzoo Lakhnavi is from the 20th century! I bet there are examples in Urdu prose too but for that I need to do some hunting!

Also, بہ is commonly found in many compounds, though hardly by itself, apart from بِہْتَر , بِہْتَرین , بِہْتَری etc. Its current usage includes:

 *بہ* اندیش = خیرخواہ \ اندیش = well-wisher  (and let us not forget *بہ* اندیشی  = خیرخواہی \ اندیشی .)
 *بہ* روزی =  خوش بختی = خوش قسمتی / خوش نصیبی  = good fortune
 *بہ* روز = خوش بخت = خوش قسمت / خوش نصیب  = having good fortune = fortunate / lucky. We also have this as a proper name for boys.
 *بِہِین* = *بِہْتَرین* =بہتر سے بہتر، سب سے بہترز = اچھی / بے حد اچھا  = the best.


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## Koozagar

Thanks very much indeed for that. I was way off the mark on that one.


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## Faylasoof

Welcome Koozagar! 

But it would be really nice to find examples of *بہ** از* in Urdu prose! So I'll start looking at my end and hopefully you all will also have a go too! Could be interesting because *بہ* alone (to mean _good_) is hardly heard, apart from our Persiphone friends in Indo-Pak when they say:  ! *بہ**!  **بہ* , to mean the same as our Urdu _waah! waah! = bravo! 
_


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## harkabir

خوب خوب

Any examples of stand alone usage of بہ as a word by itself? بہ از  is نفیس Urdu no doubt, as we have just been shown a " بہ  مژال " examples of its usage in Urdu نظم but it is also a direct Persian usage (not simply a Persian borrowing). Still, for me, it is definitely a part of the language as my definition of what can enter a language and be claimed by its lexicon is rather porous. 

1. Do we have any further adaptation of بہ ,as a stand alone word perhaps (a la the hundreds of thousands of Classical Persian words used by Urdu in its own peculiar way).

2. Can someone shed some light on how بہ is used in Classical Persian (pre-Qajar)? As a stand alone or as a compound or as a prefix or as all of the above?

Sat Sri Akal and Copy to all


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## panjabigator

ਸਤਿ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰਕਿਰਨ ਜੀ!

Isn't the بہ in بہ  مژال just  a preposition here and not the adjective?

I've edited the thread to open the query up to Persian as well.


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## harkabir

Twaanu vi SSA Ji (no Gurmukhi on my laptop, only Shahmukhi)

I think it's an adjective which has been prefixed to the noun (مثال). Taken together in Urdu they would mean a very good example. Though perhaps Urdu grammarians might call بہ a preposition (me not having no ilm of Urdu grammar).

Just as a side the root for مثال in Arabic is مثل which can indeed be used as a preposition (called حرف) in Arabic Grammar (نحو). A thread on this issue popped up today here


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## Cilquiestsuens

There is one expression which uses *beh* on its own and which is still understood and an integral part of the written language =

_*Na-guftah beh*_ = _It is better not to mention it._


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## Cilquiestsuens

Cilquiestsuens said:


> There is one expression which uses *beh* on its own and which is still understood and an integral part of the written language =
> 
> _*Na-guftah beh*_ = _It is better not to mention it._



I am sure you know this expression... If not, google it either in roman or nastaaliq and you'll find a number of people using it in their blogs, messages, etc....

I don't really know of any other 'living' expression using * beh*....


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## harkabir

Game, Set, Match - Cilquiestsuens

Cilquiestsuens شاباش 
A new phrase to learn. Nice example of the usage from the first Google result itself
پی سی او کے تحت حلف نہ اٹھانے والے سپریم کورٹ کے زیادہ تر جج اسلام آباد کی ججز کالونی میں انتہائی نہ گفتہ بہ حالات میں زندگی گزار رہے ہیں

Must have more examples, must have more examples....

شکریہ


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## Koozagar

Here is an example from Ghalib:

_juz qais koi na aya baru-e-kaar
Sehra magar bah tangi-e-chashm-e-husood tha_

I must admit, I don't fully understand the verse, much less so the use of '
bah' here. Please do help. Also, I concur with Cliqui, Na Gufta beh is very current and in common use. Can't think of too many examples in prose.


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## Faylasoof

harkabir said:


> خوب خوب
> 
> Any examples of stand alone usage of بہ as a word by itself? بہ از  is نفیس Urdu no doubt, as we have just been shown a "  بہ  مژال " examples of its usage in Urdu نظم but it is also a direct  Persian usage (not simply a Persian borrowing). Still, for me, it is  definitely a part of the language as my definition of what can enter a  language and be claimed by its lexicon is rather porous.
> 
> 1. Do we have any further adaptation of بہ ,as a stand alone word  perhaps (a la the hundreds of thousands of Classical Persian words used  by Urdu in its own peculiar way).
> 
> 2. Can someone shed some light on how بہ is used in Classical Persian  (pre-Qajar)? As a stand alone or as a compound or as a prefix or as all  of the above?
> 
> Sat Sri Akal and Copy to all



Just two points Harkabir! I think here you meant بے مثال ! The word  مژال is obviously a typo (as you clairfy below). It doesn't exist though we do have  ژال in Urdu (from Persian) - not relevant to the present discussion of course.  

I agree, بہ از  is indeed an integral part of Urdu and you'll find both بہ (=  good) and از  in Urdu lexicons. The other بہ  is a preposition, as PG  pointed out, but let us not discuss this here. 



Koozagar said:


> Here is an example from Ghalib:
> 
> _juz qais koi na aya baru-e-kaar
> Sehra magar bah tangi-e-chashm-e-husood tha_
> 
> I must admit, I don't fully understand the verse, much less so the use of '
> bah' here. Please do help. Also, I concur with Cliqui, Na Gufta beh is very current and in common use. Can't think of too many examples in prose.



Koozagar, this بہ is a  preposition!  I think we should confine the use  of بہ with the meaning we started out with, i.e. as an adjective and not as a preposition. So it would be nice to have yet more examples of stand alone  بہ  as adjective, like the example Cilqui gave. 

If, however, you'd still like to know the meaning of these verses then this explains it well. _Of course if you still wish to discuss these verses then please start a new thread._ The lines are very beautiful! How could the likes of Ghalib and Mir not be!


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## Qureshpor

"bih" is commonly used in the compound "naa-guftah bih"

jis kaifiyyat se Kaliim ne do mahiine guzaare, naa-guftah* bih* hai. (taubatu_nnuSuuH)

The manner in which Kaliim spent the two months, it is good that it is not mentioned. (It is better it remains unsaid)

But it is found with and without "az" too.

bhalaa hai yaa buraa, jo kuchh kih hai, terii 3inaayat hai
hameN bijlii kaa girnaa bhii *bih* az baaraan-i-raHmaat hai

Whether good or bad, whatever there is, it is your bounty
Even if lightning strikes, it is better than the rain of mercy

SaHar

har zan kih baashad jang-juu
dar chaal maTke muu ba muu
daarad baa shauhar guftuguu
us naar se inkaar *bih!*

joruu laRaakaa gar buvad
pur xauf-o-Dar aaN ghar buvad
vuh ghar sadaa abtar buvad
us ghar se GaNgaa paar *bih* ... 

jo naar lachke chaal meN
siskii bhare har Haal meN
kaalaa to hai kuchh daal meN
az qurb-o-zinhaar *bih

*Ja3far ZaTalli (1659-1713)


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> Koozagar you seem very sure about this!
> 
> Sure! Actaully, بِہْ_ beh _was / is used instead of  خوب_ xuub_, even if it is in Urdu poetry:
> 
> *خوشبو اسی دہن کی **بہ** از عود و مشک ہے*
> *سوکھے ہیں تیرے ہونٹ لہو میرا خشک ہے*
> 
> ( *آرزو لکھنوی*
> 
> ... and Aarzuu / Arzoo Lakhnavi is from the 20th century! I bet there are examples in Urdu prose too but for that I need to do some hunting!
> 
> Also, بہ is commonly found in many compounds, though hardly by itself, apart from بِہْتَر , بِہْتَرین , بِہْتَری etc. Its current usage includes:
> 
> *بہ* اندیش = خیرخواہ \ اندیش = well-wisher  (and let us not forget *بہ* اندیشی  = خیرخواہی \ اندیشی .)
> *بہ* روزی =  خوش بختی = خوش قسمتی / خوش نصیبی  = good fortune
> *بہ* روز = خوش بخت = خوش قسمت / خوش نصیب  = having good fortune = fortunate / lucky. We also have this as a proper name for boys.
> *بِہِین* = *بِہْتَرین* =بہتر سے بہتر، سب سے بہترز = اچھی / بے حد اچھا  = the best.


Also *bih-buud/buudii *(Welfare)

kuchh Ilaah-aabaad meN saamaaN nahiiN *bih-buud* ke
yaaN dharaa kyaa hai ba-juz Akbar ke aur amruud ke

Akbar Ilahabadi

*bih-zaad* (Noble)

3aariz-i-saaf kaa kheNchaa nah gayaa jab naqshah 
aa'iinah le ke tire saamne *bih-zaad* aayaa 

Aatash

*roz-bih* (Happy Times) {From Platts}


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> Welcome Koozagar!
> 
> But it would be really nice to find examples of *بہ** از* in Urdu prose! So I'll start looking at my end and hopefully you all will also have a go too! Could be interesting because *بہ* alone (to mean _good_) is hardly heard, apart from our Persiphone friends in Indo-Pak when they say:  ! *بہ**!  **بہ* , to mean the same as our Urdu _waah! waah! = bravo!
> _


I was under the impression that this is "bah bah" whereas we are discussing "bih".


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## Qureshpor

harkabir said:


> خوب خوب [...]
> 
> 2. Can someone shed some light on how بہ is used in Classical Persian (pre-Qajar)? As a stand alone or as a compound or as a prefix or as all of the above?[...]


agarchih zindah-ruud aab-i-Hayaat ast
valii Shiiraaz-i-maa az Isfahaan *bih

*Hafiz


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## Sheikh_14

So was beh in the olden days used commonly as today's achaa?As per all the information passed on by several respected members' it appears that beh is a "perfectly alright" word that for some reason has drifted out of usage. Therefore given the right environment it can be used. Although, faylasoof has pointed out that beh beh is an equivalent of wah wah but could you say beh Hai! alone to mean achaa Hai? One marked difference between achaa and beh from my understanding is that beh unlike achaa cannot be used as an interjection and in all instances means good/wonderful. Similarly, it won't be used in the form of a question like achaa? but in terms of expressing your liking for something it is a good alternative to have amongst your vocab. It would be great if someone could use beh in a sentence as a stand alone for achaa but simply answering whether "beh Hai" would technically be a correct alternative to 'achaa Hai" or "good Hai" would suffice. Achaa hogayaa could possibly be substituted with beh hogayaa, what do you think as far as grammar and technicalities are considered, not common usage?


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## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> agarchih zindah-ruud aab-i-Hayaat ast
> valii Shiiraaz-i-maa az Isfahaan *bih*



In Persian, beh/bah is rarely used without az (than), i.e. always in comparison situations (and mainly in literary writing), despite existence of the more suited *بهتر*

Hâfez:
جوانا سر متاب از پند پیران
که رای پیر *از* بخت جوان *به*

شبی می‌گفت چشم کس ندیده‌ست
*ز* مروارید گوشم در جهان *به*

اگر چه زنده رود آب حیات است
ولی شیراز ما *از* اصفهان *به*
agar cé zendé rud âbe hayât ast
vali ŝirâze mâ *az* Esfehân *beh*

سخن اندر دهان دوست شکر
ولیکن گفته حافظ* از* آن *به*

The *only *situation beh/bah can be used on its own, is as an exclamation e.g. *بَه چه هَوا یِ خوبی * bah čé havâye xubi !! - vow what beautiful weather!!



Cilquiestsuens said:


> Na-guftah beh


Even in this form there's an implied 'az', this 'saying' must have been truncated as it doesn't make full sense in Persian, so it must be:
nagofté beh ast az...
OR
nagofté beh az...
OR
another variation with 'az'


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## Sheikh_14

Nevertheless, you do use beh beh to mean wow wow as you do here "bah che hawaaye xuubii!?" Am I correct as faylasoof has suggested above? Your insight was indeed helpful. My question for Urdu speakers' would be that could you use beh or has it in the past been used as an alternative for achaa and thus good? Beh Hai as opposed to good or achaa Hai? Instead of good/achaa hogayaa bhae yeh tau beh hogayaa Hai? In this sense at least Perso's comparative usage really comes into it's own since you are remarking upon a turn for the better. It seems to me that despite going out of usage for some reason or another it is still a valid Urdu word.


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