# Fall down seven, stand up eight



## Bux05

Hi, I'm looking to translate a saying for a tattoo in hungarian, but I'm not having much luck with online searches.  I need the tattoo to read "Fall down seven, stand up eight" in hungarian.  Since its for a tattoo, I'd like to keep it as small and concise as possible.  All of the online translators are returning different results that are not consistent, so I'm just looking for someone to clarify this for me.  Any help is much appreciated.  Thanks!!


----------



## jazyk

I think it is _Összees__sél __ hétszer és __álljál fel nyolcszor _but please wait for confirmation!


----------



## Bux05

Jazyk - Thanks for the translation.  It definitely seems like the closest i've seen.  If I put this in one of the translators I was using, it comes out as:  "Sagged seven times and stand up up eight times".  Obviously it wont be an exact translation, but it's pretty close. I'll wait for confirmation. Thanks again.


----------



## Zsuzsu

Hi Bux05,

I will give a try: _Ha elesel hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor_! (literally: if you fall down seven times, stand up eight times), or - if you really need the imperative in the first part: _Ess el hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor_!
Hope that helps!


----------



## Bux05

Thanks Zsuzsu.  I really appreciate your help.  Now i just need a good design, ha.  Thanks!


----------



## Orreaga

I would say Zsuzsu's first option is correct, since we're not talking about the imperative in the first part.  It's not literally "fall down!" as an imperative, but it has an implied "if" in English, a shorthand way of saying it, if you will.  Hungarian is more precise and you can't translate that kind of truncated English with a machine translator.  In my opinion if you must have a tattoo in Hungarian it would be better to have something that makes more sense in Hungarian (i.e. a proverb or motto common in Hungarian) than something translated into Hungarian that doesn't make much sense. I think this is something that if a Hungarian saw this tattooed on someone they would just say "What the...?"


----------



## Zsuzsu

I more or less agree with Orreaga in everything he wrote.


----------



## Orreaga

For example, to convey the idea of "never give up" you could say *"soha nem szabad feladni"* or simply *"nem szabad feladni"* which is commonly used in Hungarian, and a shorter option than the 7/8 thing.


----------



## Zsuzsu

It would be shorter, Orreaga, but I don't expect it to occur as a tattoo. A much more idiomatic way of it would be: "Soha ne add fel!" (Never give up) but it's such a commonplace... I prefer the 7/8 thing - although there does not exist a saying like this in Hungarian, it sounds not bad. Actually, I find it original. And reading your first post again, I would say that any Hungarian would understand the intended meaning of the "7/8 thing".


----------



## Bux05

I appreciate everyone's help and opinion.  I definitely understand why it doesn't translate exactly as id like in english but Zsuzsu first try is pretty much what I was looking for.  While a fluent Hungarian might possibly think its a bit strange, that really wouldn't matter in my case.  Its actually a memorial tattoo that has many meanings and having it written in Hungarian is just a seperate meaning that only has meaning to myself. (This is why another saying wouldn't work)  I just thought if i could get it as close as possible, then I'd be happy with that.  Again, thanks to you all for your help and opinions.  For now I guess i'll lean towards the "_Ha elesel hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor_! (literally: if you fall down seven times, stand up eight times)" for now, but any other opinions are welcomed.  Thanks!


----------



## Orreaga

Zsuzsu said:


> And reading your first post again, I would say that any Hungarian would understand the intended meaning of the "7/8 thing".


Szia Zsuzsu:  Yes, I'm sure it would be understood in the literal sense (after all, the Hungarian translation is quite literal compared to the style of the English version), I just mean it is not something that already exists in Hungarian and yes it is "original" (for better or worse) in Hungarian (this translation has no hits in Google, whereas the English version has millions of hits).  I personally had never heard of it before in English and might be a little confused had I stumbled upon it without context (which makes your translation all the more impressive ).  

But apparently it is a popular Japanese subject for a tattoo  (whether this is actually worn by anyone in Japan remains to be seen!).  What complicates this is that now I realize the English "fall down seven stand up eight" is itself a stereotype of a Japanese person speaking beginner English. No native English speaker would speak like that. So if it is possible to imitate a Japanese person speaking beginning Hungarian maybe we would arrive at the most accurate translation!      Because the grammatically-flawless _Ha elesel hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor_!  doesn't have the same abbreviated Confucian flavor.

Sorry, Bux05, if this is taking the discussion beyond your original question.  Often after an initial question the discussion takes on a life of its own!  By the way, welcome to the Forum!


----------



## Zsanna

Hello everybody,
The sentence seems a bit long to me, too, for a tattoo but here is one way to make it a bit shorter: 
*Ha elesel 7x, állj fel 8x!* 

Or - just to complicate things a bit more: Ha 7x esel el, 8x állj fel! - this puts the accent a bit more on the numbers that is the point in my opinion...

It is not very "elegant" to use the "x" but I think it does not go against the "soul" of tattoos in general and is certainly understood without any problem.


----------



## Sowka

Hello to all of you 

If I may, I would like to contribute a little consideration: Yes, I know that it is said to be a Japanese saying, and yes, it does have many google hits.

BUT: It is simply impossible. Even with the greatest amount of willpower you will not be able to stand up more often than you have fallen down 

I've tried it


----------



## Zsanna

It is a point worth considering, Sowka! 

I've just realised why the whole thing seemed so funny to me... But we can't change things unless Bux05 decides so... so in the meantime:
In the version *Ha elesel 7x, állj fel 8x!*  the mathematical nonsense comes out very clearly, however, in the other one I suggested (above) the nonsense is accentuated in such a way that it could underline the original idea - even if it is still a bit lame.

Another way to convey the message and avoid these problems would be something like: (Ha) Talpraálltál 7x, tedd meg 8-adszorra is!
_(If) you stood up 7 times, do it for the 8th (times), too!_
The advantage of the first verb is that it refers to a previous fall as well as to your "overcoming" the problem and the "if" can be avoided. 
(Nevertheless, I'm still not fully happy with it.)


----------



## Orreaga

Sowka said:


> Even with the greatest amount of willpower you will not be able to stand up more often than you have fallen down
> 
> I've tried it


This assumes you've started in a standing position.  Try this: Start out lying in bed, then stand up (1st time), then fall down (1st time), etc.  This way your getting up will always come out ahead of your falling down!   

Zsanna:  I do like the rhythm of your _Ha 7x esel el, 8x állj fel!_


----------



## Brioche

Orreaga said:


> But apparently it is a popular Japanese subject for a tattoo  (whether this is actually worn by anyone in Japan remains to be seen!).  What complicates this is that now I realize the English "fall down seven stand up eight" is itself a stereotype of a Japanese person speaking beginner English.  Because the grammatically-flawless _Ha elesel hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor_!  doesn't have the same abbreviated Confucian flavor.



Chinese is full of four-character idioms. There are thousands of them, many derived from ancient literature. Often, unless you know the story behind them, they don't make any sense.
For example. _Old man lost horse_.
In the story, an old man lost his mare. Later she returned with a stallion.
So the man actually gained a horse. In English, we could say something like "A lost may spell a gain".

When the Japanese borrowed the writing system from Chinese, they also took on the notion of 4 character idioms.


----------



## Freca

That of Zsuzsa is good.
I'd say _*Ha elesel hétszer, állj fel nyolcszor*_


----------



## Freca

This 7x 8x thing is  wrong IMHO.


----------

