# North African Arabic: To ask



## mini91

I am aware of the gist of the word but unsure if it is correct or not but would like to know correctly how to conjugate the verb of 'asking' for example:

I _asked_ her to do something
_Ask her_ if he can come
_They asked_ me something

Shukran


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## chizinist

It varies from country to country. In Tunisia it might look like the following, depending on how much French is mixed in to the dialect. 

1: I requested her = tlebt-ha li-(verb) or salt-ha li-

2: Ask her if he can come = isalha idha inajjam ijee

3: They asked me a question = saluni swal


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## Finland

Hello!



mini91 said:


> I _asked_ her to do something
> _Ask her_ if he can come
> _They asked_ me something



In Algeria I would probably say:
1. Qetlha diri 7aaja
2. Seqsi mnha lukaan teqdar tiji
3. Saqsuni 7aaja

HTH

S (not a native speaker though!)


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## mini91

Thank you both, aside from the MSA familar conjugation of sa2alu/yas2alu the one I came across and interested in is the one Finland mentioned which I've heard in both Algeria and Morocco


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## J.F. de TROYES

Finland said:


> Hello!
> 
> 
> 
> In Algeria I would probably say:
> 1. Qetlha diri 7aaja
> 2. Seqsi mnha lukaan teqdar tiji
> 3. Saqsuni 7aaja
> 
> HTH
> 
> S (not a native speaker though!)



1. I am afraid  _qetl  _does'nt mean _I asked._ I think I'd say :

           tlebtha tidir 7aaja ( or: tlebt minha...)

2. seqSi minha ida yeqdar  iji  ( or: 2isaalha... )

_teqdar_ and _tiji _are feminine forms  and the sentence is : "Ask her if he can come"


I would be interested in a native's opinion about using here _lukaan_ or _ida_ ( + المضارع   or  الماضي    ? )   and translating more accurately the verbs "to ask"


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## lanature93

I _asked_ her to do something==> tlebet menha dir 7adja 
_Ask her_ if he can come==> sakh'ssiha ida ye9dar y'dji 
_They asked_ me something==> sakh'ssawni 7adja


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## Xence

Just to correct the transliteration...



I _asked_ her to do something = _Tlabt _menha tdir 7aadja

_Ask her_ if he can come = _Saqsiha _ila (ida/idha/wila) yaqder ydji

_They asked_ me something = _Saqsawni _7aadja


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## J.F. de TROYES

Thanks a lot for your answers, Xence and Ignature93.

 Do you know where the verb _saqSaa_ comes from ? I can't find an adequate root in a MSA dictionary.


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## إسكندراني

Est-ce que c'est


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## clevermizo

J.F. de TROYES said:


> Thanks a lot for your answers, Xence and Ignature93.
> 
> Do you know where the verb _saqSaa_ comes from ? I can't find an adequate root in a MSA dictionary.



I have a feeling the verb is from the root ق ص ي and for example, in standard Arabic the verb استقصى means make an inquiry or investigation of something. In Maltese, the verb استقصى _staqsa_ is used with the meaning of سأل and the word for سؤال is _mistoqsija_ مستقصية. I can't find a verb like أقصى or قصى with a related meaning in the معاجم, so the Algerian verb may be a variation on استقصى.

Just to add the form استقصى  was probably simplified to صقصى or سقصى by passing through an intermediate where the س assimilated the ت: i.e. استقصى>اسّقصى>سقصى/صقصى.


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## Xence

I have nothing to add to clevermizo's explanation. 

The strange thing is that many Arabs find it kind of funny to hear Algerians using this verb !


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## mini91

So the verb root ق ص ي wouldn't be used for 1st person but for 2nd/3rd? 

e.g I ask/asked
She asks/asked
They ask/asked


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## Xence

No, this has nothing to with persons.
The Algerian verb _saqSa _is exclusively used when asking for _information _(about something or somebody), and the verb _Tlab_ is rather used when _requesting_, _demanding _something else.


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## J.F. de TROYES

So the verb  سقصى   appears to be a synonym of   سأل ; does this verb is also used in Algerian Arabic with the same or a different meaning ?


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## Xence

Yes, سأل pronounced سال _saal _in Algerian is also used, but not with the same meaning.

We may use it to mean that someone asks another one _to say hello on her behalf_ (_Passer le bonjour_).

Ex: _*X* ysaal 3lik_ = *X* sends her regards to you



This verb may also mean _to owe something to somebody_ (but the other way around, I don't know if there is such verb in English):

Ex: _*X* ysaal 100€ el *Y*_ = *Y* owes 100€ to *X*


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## إسكندراني

I'm sure I've also heard سوّل before.


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## mini91

How interesting, so just to be correct if the sentence of 'I asked' was as the following: "I asked if he could come", could the verb of 'saqsa' be used since it is about information? Also can I ask how the verb of Tlab and Saqsa is conjugated?

I asked/requested etc
She asked/requested
He asked/requested
They asked/requested
We asked/requested


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## Xence

إسكندراني said:


> I'm sure I've also heard سوّل before.



That's true. 

سوّل _sawwal _is also used with the same meaning as سال (_to inquire after somebody, to send regards..._)






mini91 said:


> if the sentence of 'I asked' was as the following: "I asked if he could come", could the verb of 'saqsa' be used since it is about information?



Of course.

I asked if he could come = _saqSit ila/idha yaqder ydji_




I asked/requested = _saqSit / Tlabt_

She asked/requested = _saqSsa(a)t / Talbat_

He asked/requested = _saqSa / Tlab_

They asked/requested = _saqSaaw / Talbu(u)_

We asked/requested = _saqSina / Tlabna_


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## J.F. de TROYES

Thanks again, Clevermizo and Xence, for enlightening the  meaning of these verbs  and where _saqSa _disconcertingly comes from. I now understand why I was unable to trace back this form to any appropriate root. I must say I am a bit surprised for a derived verb X to be pronounced by dropping ( or assimilating )  the ت as significant as س  to  define these  - است  verbs.


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## clevermizo

J.F. de TROYES said:


> Thanks again, Clevermizo and Xence, for enlightening the  meaning of these verbs  and where _saqSa _disconcertingly comes from. I now understand why I was unable to trace back this form to any appropriate root.



Why is this disconcerting? 



> I must say I am a bit surprised for a derived verb X to be pronounced by dropping ( or assimilating )  the ت as significant as س  to  define these  - است  verbs.



Well native speakers don't necessarily think of the "forms" categorically in this way when they speak their language. Although SaqSa may have evolved from استقصى, at the end of the day we should treat it as a quadriliteral verb in modern Algerian. It is no longer of the form استفعل. It's not like speakers think of استقصى and then convert it to صقصى when they say it. 

We might expect this process of assimilation to be inhibited in the case of a recent borrowing from standard Arabic or in learned vocabulary, or صقصى may be an isolated occurrence of this sort of assimilation and loss.

Xence can you think of any other examples in which استفعل may have been converted into اسفعل or سَفعل in modern Algerian?


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## Arabus

Honestly, I was surprised when I saw the verb _saqsi _on this page. I wanted to comment but I didn't. It indeed sounds funny to hear such a formal verb being used colloquially. When you say _saqsiha_, does that mean you are going to send an investigation committee to her or waht?


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## clevermizo

Arabus said:


> Honestly, I was surprised when I saw the verb _saqsi _on this page. I wanted to comment but I didn't. It indeed sounds funny to hear such a formal verb being used colloquially. When you say _saqsiha_, does that mean you are going to send an investigation committee to her or waht?



 Apparently it's just the plain verb to ask. Maltese is the same, although they actually say (i)staqsa. The verb سأل is lost in Maltese completely, I think.


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## kamoo

urban Moroccan 
I _asked_ her to do something- seweltha it dir she-Haja or Talabt minha....
_Ask her_ if he can come- sewelha wash yiqdair yi-jee
_They asked_ me something- sewlooni she-Haja  

sorry if the transliteration is not clear....


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## Xence

clevermizo said:
			
		

> Xence can you think of any other examples in which استفعل may have been converted into اسفعل or سَفعل in modern Algerian?



The first that comes to my mind is the verb استنّى _estanna _(= to wait) which is often pronounced اسنّى _essanna_.
Of course, this verb is used in many other Arabic dialects and originates from the FuS7a استأنى .

I have also heard يزهزا _yezzahza _instead of يستهزا _yastahza _(= to mock at, to scoff, etc.)



*******


I agree with kamoo that Moroccans use the verb _sawwal _/ _sewwel _سوّل in the same way Algerians do use _saqSa_.


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## J.F. de TROYES

clevermizo said:


> Why is this disconcerting?



Diconcerting, because hypothesizing that a verb composed of the sequence of  س - ق - ص  originates in the root ق- ص -ى  is not really obvious, I mean for someone who does'nt master Arabic grammar and phonetic changes.



clevermizo said:


> Well native speakers don't necessarily think of the "forms" categorically in this way when they speak their language. Although SaqSa may have evolved from استقصى, at the end of the day we should treat it as a quadriliteral verb in modern Algerian. It is no longer of the form استفعل. It's not like speakers think of استقصى and then convert it to صقصى when they say it.



I quite agree with you. The word is a datum and a native thinks nothing of using it, as in any language, but  explaining its etymology is another story ! Interesting too to consider it a quadriliteral verb.


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## mini91

Can I also as how it is cojugated in the present forms:

I ask/I request
you ask/request
he asks/requests
she asks/requests
they ask/request
we ask/request


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## Xence

I ask/I request  =  _neTlob (neTleb - naTlab...) / nsaqSi_ 


you ask/request =  _teTlob (teTleb - taTlab...) / tsaqSi _ 


he asks/requests =  _yeTlob (yeTleb - YaTlab...)  ysaqSi _ 


she asks/requests =  _teTlob (teTleb - taTlab...) / tsaqSi_ 


they ask/request =  _yeTolbu (yeTelbu - yaTalbu...) / ysaqSiw_ 


we ask/request =  _neTolbu (neTelbu - naTalbu...) / nsaqSiw_


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## Hemza

I'm Moroccan-Saudi and it's funny, I didn't know that Algerians use a different words than in Morocco


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