# Slovenian: Le



## b_fly

Does it always means "only" (Croatian: _samo_), or it sometimes has a different meaning? 
Where does that word come from?


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## slavic_one

http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=le&hs=1

Tu imaš neke primjere, da izgleda da znači "samo", iako sam tu:

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/slovene/le

našao da može značiti i "te (ove)".
Ali od kuda dolazi riječ ne bih znao, možda ima kakve veze sa slovačkom "len" koja uz "iba" znači isto što i naše "samo".


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## skye

It can have other meanings too, e.g. it can be used to encourage someone to do something:

Le pojdi! (I'm not sure how to translate this, maybe "just go" or "you go!".)

Most of the time it means "only".


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## zigaramsak

Prva stranica iz riječnika mi se čini vrlo dobra:

1.
-1. to je le osnutek zakona = to je _samo_ osnutek zakona
-2. ne bom igral, gledal bom pa le = ne bom igral, gledal bom pa _vseeno_
-3. plačal bi, če bi le mogel = plačal bi [takoj, z veseljem, brez problema], _samo_ če bi mogel
-4. kdor le more, gre v mesto = vsak, ki ima kakšno možnost, gre v mesto
-5. le kaj si bo mislil o nas = _kaj neki / kdo ve_, kaj si bo mislil o nas
-6. le čakaj, te že ujamem = _samo_ čakaj, te že ujamem; naj se le norčuje, ne bo se dolgo = kar naj se norčuje, ne bo se dolgo
-7. da ste le zdravi = _samo_ da ste zdravi
-8. podjetje je trdno kot le malokatero = podjetje je trdno kot komaj še katero drugo / _samo_ malo drugih
2.
-1. Nekateri rodovi so se razvili v podljedelce, drugi v pastirje. Le-ti niso poznali stalne naselitve. = _Prav_ ti (zadnji) niso poznali stalne naselitve
-2.
3.
4. govori lepo, le malo pretiho = govori lepo, _samo/ampak/toda_ malo pretiho

Ali stvarno ne znam, kako bi "le" mogao značiti "te" ili "ove". Mislim, da je to greška.


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## slavic_one

Ne znam, eto dao sam tamo link, piše "these" na engleski, ne znam u kojem smislu su mislili to.
Ja ne znam slovenski pa ne razumijem to sve iz riječnika, ali vidim da može značiti i "svejedno". Što bi na engleski ili hrvatski značilo "le kaj si bo mislil o nas = _kaj neki / kdo ve_, kaj si bo mislil o nas"?



skye said:


> It can have other meanings too, e.g. it can be used to encourage someone to do something:
> 
> Le pojdi! (I'm not sure how to translate this, maybe "just go" or "you go!".)
> 
> Most of the time it means "only".



Mislim da se to također može prevesti kao "_Samo _idi!". (I think it can also be translated as "_Samo _idi!".)


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## skye

slavic_one said:


> Mislim da se to također može prevesti kao "_Samo _idi!". (I think it can also be translated as "_Samo _idi!".)


 
Perhaps, but it sounds dialectal to me. In any case, I think that the word "samo" doesn't have its basic meaning "only" here either. 

I won't try to write in Croatian, because I will only make a fool of myself. :embarrass: But I can understand.


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## slavic_one

skye said:


> Perhaps, but it sounds dialectal to me. In any case, I think that the word "samo" doesn't have its basic meaning "only" here either.
> 
> I won't try to write in Croatian, because I will only make a fool of myself. :embarrass: But I can understand.



No, it has meaning of "just" which we in Croatian also say "samo"


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## b_fly

A long time ago someone (I think Jana) told me that we have to write on English, and when I did that, she also correct my mistakes on English with red colour font.
It was obligated to write on English, whether we know it or not.
Does this mean that we can write on our languages?

Anyway, I'll continue to write on English (because I'm afraid of her  ).

Slavic one, hvala ti bezmjerno na prvom linku, baš će mi to dobro doć! Da sam tražila ne bi našla, čovječe cijeli rječnik na netu!!
Inače, skroz dobronamjerni savjet za tebe i zigaramsak:
rječnik, ne riječnik. 

I have one more question. When do we use SAMO and when LE? Can we say: 
Wait a minute, I only have to finish this. 
or: They are just having fun. 
- with _samo_ or _le_? 

Like that song: _Samo edini_. Could it be _Le edini_? Does it mean something different if we say _le_?


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## slavic_one

b_fly said:
			
		

> A long time ago someone (I think Jana) told me that we have to write on English, and when I did that, she also correct my mistakes on English with red colour font.
> It was obligated to write on English, whether we know it or not.
> Does this mean that we can write on our languages?
> 
> Anyway, I'll continue to write on English (because I'm afraid of her  ).



Možemo i po naški dok god je po književnim propisima. 

 (Jestli některý uživatele mohou psát na češtine, ruštině, španělštině atd. můžeme take my na chorvatštině)



			
				b_fly said:
			
		

> Slavic one, hvala ti bezmjerno na prvom linku, baš će mi to dobro doć! Da sam tražila ne bi našla, čovječe cijeli rječnik na netu!!
> Inače, skroz dobronamjerni savjet za tebe i zigaramsak:
> rječnik, ne riječnik.



Nema na čemu!  A što se tiče "riječnika" hvala tebi, inače imam problem da pišem "ije" i tamo gdje je samo "je" !


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## skye

@b fly: They are just having fun. - Could be both: Samo zabavajo se. or Le zabavajo se. (Both sentences can mean either that they are just having fun and don't mean any harm or that they are just having fun and not doing anything else). 

Wait a minute, I only have to finish this. - Could be both again: Počakaj minuto, samo to še dokončam. Počakaj minuto, le to še dokončam. Although in this case I'd be more inclined to use samo. 

Mostly they are quite interchangeable, but in some cases one of them is preferred. For example in the sentence I wrote above it would be strange to say samo pojdi instead of le pojdi. To me it would seem more like you're chasing someone away and not like you're encouraging them to do something.

We had some students of Slovenian too, maybe they could tell you if there are actually any rules for this - or if it is just a matter of usage, collocations, etc.


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## b_fly

skye said:


> For example in the sentence I wrote above it would be strange to say samo pojdi instead of le pojdi. To me it would seem more like you're chasing someone away and not like you're encouraging them to do something.


 
Wow, it's really good how the difference is made. In Croatian _samo idi _can mean that you're chasing him away, and also that you encourage him to go, and the difference is made just in the way you say it, in the intonation, accent, I don't know... This is much better (in Slovenian).



skye said:


> We had some students of Slovenian too, maybe they could tell you if there are actually any rules for this - or if it is just a matter of usage, collocations, etc.


 
It would be great. If someone of them is reading this: write! 



> (Jestli některý uživatele mohou psát na češtine, ruštině, španělštině atd. můžeme take my na chorvatštině)


Pa valjda je tako. Odlično. 

Oh kad ću ja ovako naučiti sve slavenske jezike....


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## hinko

I would never use "samo pojdi". I would either use "le pojdi" if I wanted to encourage somebody or "samo idi" if I was chasing someone away.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

hinko said:


> I would never use "samo pojdi". I would either use "le pojdi" if I wanted to encourage somebody or "samo idi" if I was chasing someone away.


I'd rather use "kar pojdi" or as we nornally say here in Ljubljana "kr pejt".
This "le" word is considered highly literary.


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## slavic_one

b_fly said:
			
		

> Wow, it's really good how the difference is made. In Croatian _samo idi _can mean that you're chasing him away, and also that you encourage him to go, and the difference is made just in the way you say it, in the intonation, accent, I don't know....



Or threat, if one says "Samo idi!" in meaning "You just dare to go!"



			
				b_fly said:
			
		

> Oh kad ću ja ovako naučiti sve slavenske jezike....



Malo po malo. I ja sam počeo od jednog jezika, pa jedan po jedan..


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## skye

hinko said:


> I would never use "samo pojdi". I would either use "le pojdi" if I wanted to encourage somebody or "samo idi" if I was chasing someone away.


 
In my dialect people say "sam pejt (mi spred oči)". In standard language I probably wouldn't use it either, but I didn't think about this, when I first wrote it. 

It's difficult to define the correct usage of such elusive words which can take on several functions and have an elusive meaning which is sometimes difficult to translate. It's pretty straightforward with samo and le meaning only, but it gets complicated when you try to define all the nuances it can express.


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## skye

b_fly said:


> Oh kad ću ja ovako naučiti sve slavenske jezike....


 
Imaš puno vrijemena. 

Just don't despair. (That's my passive knowledge of Croatian. )


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## slavic_one

skye said:


> Imaš puno vrijemena.
> 
> Just don't despair. (That's my passive knowledge of Croatian. )



It's "vremena"


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## sokol

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> I'd rather use "kar pojdi" or as we nornally say here in Ljubljana "kr pejt".
> This "le" word is considered highly literary.



Carinthian Slovenes - who of course speak a rather different dialect, compared to Kranj - seem to use 'le' quite often, or to be more precise: at least one of my teachers (who was a Carinthian Slovene) did so. Of course he spoke standard language in class as we were in a course of Standard Slovenian, but if you use 'le' in dialect frequently I'd assume you'd do the same in standard language. And then of course he already was in his fourties then (in the 1990ies), so probably his speech didn't quite reflect modern use. (He also still used 'dobro se imej' which, as I was told here in this forum, too seems to be outdated already.)


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## skye

slavic_one said:


> It's "vremena"


 
Ah, thx.


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## zigaramsak

@b_fly: puno hvala na ispravci za "rječnik"! 

Ja sam ionako siguran, da napravim najmanje jednu grešku u svakom redu. Ali prije 20 godina bile je sasvim normalno, da smo imali "srpsko-hrvatski" u školi, u stripovima, čak na jednom programu televizije. Ista država, svi smo razumjeli sve i uopšte nije bilo bitno. I da napravim 20 greška u svakom redu, neću sad na engleskom sa tim istim ljudima... 



slavic_one said:


> Što bi na engleski ili hrvatski značilo "le kaj si bo mislil o nas = _kaj neki / kdo ve_, kaj si bo mislil o nas"?


 
"le kaj si bo mislil o nas = kaj neki / kdo ve, kaj si bo mislil o nas":
Ko zna što će si misliti o nama. / Što će si on zapravo misliti o nama.
Who knows what he'll think about us. (kdo ve = who knows / ko zna, neki = zapravo)

U ovom slučaju "le" ne promjeni ništa u rečenici, samo dodava neku nijansu. Zavisno od situacije može imati puno različitih značenja i zbog toga je teško prevesti ovaj primjer.

U slovensko-hrvatskom rječniku sam pronašao:
le (člen): samo, ipak
le (veznik): samo; ne le - ampak tudi: ne samo - nego i; le da: samo što

Ja upotrebljavam "le" puno više kada pišem (umjesto "samo" i "kar", "vseeno"), ali ponekad i kad pričam, posebno u slučajevima kada želim, da netko napravi nešto dobro (dođe opet, završi diplomu):
le pridi (le prid), le pojdi (le pejt), le daj, le oglasi se (le oglas se)...
Ili: "to pa le" što bi značilo nešto kao "dobra ideja, samo napravi to" (to vjerovatno kažem skoro svaki dan).

U tom smislu ne bi nikad rekao "samo", jer bi to značilo nešto tako:
ti samo pridi - samo dođi, ne treba ti ništa drugo
samo pridi, kaj te briga za druge - samo dođi, ne brini za druge
samo pridi, če upaš - samo dođi, ako se usudiš

"Samo idi" ne postoji tu gdje ja živim (Gorenjska).

@sokol: I often say "dobro se imej", "lepo se imej", "fajn se imej", but I always write "lepo se imej". It think I try to avoid "le" in speech if possible (I still use it in the above examples), but I write it very often.


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## sokol

zigaramsak said:


> @sokol: I often say "dobro se imej", "lepo se imej", "fajn se imej", but I always write "lepo se imej". It think I try to avoid "le" in speech if possible (I still use it in the above examples), but I write it very often.



Another Slovenian here on this forum warned me that "dobro se imej" would be outdated ... well, Slovenian has a broad range of dialects, I suppose that there would be different opinions on that one.
Same might be true for "le", but of course this is for native speakers to say. (It would be logical too for Slovenian Carinthians using "le" regularly because in their German dialect of Carinthia there's the exact same - as "lei" - which they use very frequently.)


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## trance0

I use "le" both in everyday speech and in written language. More often in the written form though. I wouldn`t say it`s outdated at all. It just depends on your personal vocabulary, how you prefer to express yourself.


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## Duya

slavic_one said:


> Nema na čemu!  A što se tiče "riječnika" hvala tebi, inače imam problem da pišem "ije" i tamo gdje je samo "je" !



Malo ću off-topic ali po naški, možda Jana ne primijeti .

Mislim da nemaš previše razloga da se izvinjavaš oko ove greške: po meni je bezveze što Pravopis (koliko znam) dopušta samo oblik "rječnik". Da nisam u školi naučio drugačije, i dalje bih izgovarao sa dugim akcentom -- kao i mnogo drugih ljudi --, te pisao "r*i*ječnik". Ne vidim naročitu logiku što je iz _lijek nastalo_ _liječnik_ ali _riječ_->_rječnik _ili _vijest_->_vjesnik _(priznajte da biste i na ovoj pogriješili!). Mislim da je generalno dobro da Pravopis dopušta dublete koji su u upotrebi i za koje ne postoji logički razlog zašto ne bi smjelo tako... ali nisam ga ja pisao.


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