# All dialects: face



## Hemza

Hello,

I noticed that Egyptians and Syrians&co (الشام) pronounce the word وجه as وش. I would like to know if this also happens in Iraq, Arabia and Sudan. Because in the Maghreb, it's always وجه (wujeh) we don't pronounce it وش (moreover, it would be mistaken with the interrogative word وش although the pronunciation is a bit different).

Thank you.


----------



## Mahaodeh

In Palestinian Arabic it's not pronounce وش, it's prounced وج. However, the jeem is soft, similar to the second g in garage in British English (I think it's different in American English, but don't know for sure) - pretty much the same way the jeem is pronounced in urban dialects in other words.

In Iraqi Arabic it's pronounced 'wijih' sometimes, in others it's 'wich', pretty much similar to the English words which and witch.


----------



## She'lock Holmes

Hemza said:


> I noticed that Egyptians and Syrians&co (الشام) pronounce the word وجه as وش.


I am pretty sure it is actually وِج [wiʒ] in Northern Levantine ِArabic with ج pronounced as a French j or in English as the s in pleasure.
Using وش might (correct me if I'm wrong) be restricted to bedoun and some rural areas but such accents/dialects are dying in favour of more urban accents; I don't think it'd even sound Levantine for the average Lebanese or Damascene with a ش.


----------



## Mahaodeh

She'lock Holmes said:


> I don't think it'd even sound Levantine for the average Lebanese or Damascene with a ش.


Right? It sounds distinctly Egyptian to me.


----------



## normordm

In Sudanese, it'sوَش


----------



## Suqutra

She'lock Holmes said:


> Using وش might (correct me if I'm wrong) be restricted to bedoun and some rural areas but such accents/dialects are dying in favour of more urban accents; I don't think it'd even sound Levantine for the average Lebanese or Damascene with a ش.


No, we in Egypt use وش and this is because it used to make a French J sound (like in pleasure) but this turned into a sh sound (like in sure) Unless you are talking about just in Al-Sham.

In the gulf it's ويه, in Hejaz and Morocco it's the same as Fus7a. It's وج in Al-Sham, and وچ in Iraq. 

In the gulf, it's common to have words with j transform into a y. And the same for Iraq with j to a ch.



She'lock Holmes said:


> I am pretty sure it is actually وِج [wiʒ] in Northern Levantine ِArabic with ج pronounced as a French j or in English as the s in pleasure.


It's different where ever you go in Al-Sham, in Damascus they'll say it like a French J (like in pleasure) or in Aleppo they'll say it like an English J (like in joy).


----------



## Mahaodeh

Suqutra said:


> In the gulf, it's common to have words with j transform into a y. And the same for Iraq with j to a ch.



The y is used interchangeably with the j in most places, except maybe some rural places around Basra in Iraq and in Kuwait where it's more common to use the y. Other Gulf states (Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman), it's mostly wijih. 

In Iraq it depends on how you use it, in some sentences it's wijih, in others it's wich.



Suqutra said:


> Aleppo they'll say it like an English J (like in joy).



Actually, I've also heard wich in Allepo, although my visits were very short (one time 9 days, and one time 2 weeks), I still managed to hear that. It caught my attention because it sounds like Iraqi but their dialect in general does not.


----------



## analeeh

She'lock Holmes said:


> I am pretty sure it is actually وِج [wiʒ] in Northern Levantine ِArabic with ج pronounced as a French j or in English as the s in pleasure.
> Using وش might (correct me if I'm wrong) be restricted to bedoun and some rural areas but such accents/dialects are dying in favour of more urban accents; I don't think it'd even sound Levantine for the average Lebanese or Damascene with a ش.



_wishsh_ is perfectly normal in at least some Syrian urban accents, including as far as I'm aware Damascene.


----------



## She'lock Holmes

analeeh said:


> _wishsh_ is perfectly normal in at least some Syrian urban accents, including as far as I'm aware Damascene.


Are you sure of that? If you could find an audio sample (identifying the ethnic origin and where did he or she live would help a lot too) or a linguistic book saying so would be great; although I'm fairly sure the French j is more common there.


----------



## Hemza

Thanks everyone for your input. Around me, I hear mostly (beside Maghrebis) Egyptians, Palestinians and Syrians and my ears confused the Egyptian ش sound with the ج sound of Palestinian/Syrian although I do remember having heard Syrians pronouncing it ش but this may be an influence of Egyptian because where we all meet (at university) many mix their speech with Egyptian pronunciation/expressions/words when talking to Egyptians.



Suqutra said:


> In the gulf it's ويه, in Hejaz and Morocco it's the same as Fus7a. It's وج in Al-Sham, and وچ in Iraq.



Not only in Morocco but all Maghreb countries (although central Algerians pronounce the ج like the English J, it sounds like ودجه).

Interesting the ويه variation  I didn't expect the ج to ي switch occuring in this word.


----------



## I.K.S.

Suqutra said:


> In the gulf it's ويه, in Hejaz and Morocco it's the same as Fus7a


I don't think so, The similarity with fus7a is only in spelling وجه not pronunciation, since we pronounce it ''w'jah''(Sometimes we tend to shift the first vowel to the next letter in Morocco), Unless it is attached to a pronoun where it would sound more like fus7a EX: ''wujho, wujhek, wujhi'' etc.., I don't know about Hejaz exact pronunciation though.


----------



## Hemza

Mmm that may be a Western (or rural?) specificity because in urban dialects or at least, how I hear it amongst some of my relatives, it's wujah/wujeh or may be we point at the same pronunciation but we write it differently?

With the article (الوجه) I know it sounds "lawjah"  but for the word itself, I hear "wujah".


----------



## I.K.S.

Hemza said:


> Mmm that may be a Western specificity because in urban dialects or at least, how I hear it amongst my relatives, it's wujah/wujeh or may be we point at the same pronunciation but we write it differently?


Well apologies, I missed the regional variations, we're just a bit self-centred westerners.


----------



## Hemza

No worries, I'm not a native speaker so I may be wrong too and you know the dialect much better than I do. If I think so,  it's because urban speeches tend to speak less quickly than rural dialects hence in urban dialects (traditionally) you will never hear "7lim/7lima" but always "7alim/7alima" for instance.


----------



## Mahaodeh

Hemza said:


> I know it sounds "lawjah" but for the word itself, I hear "wujah"



Neither are similar to fus7a, in fus7 there is a fat7a on the waaw and it's pronounced wajh. Of course, this comment is not to you, it's to Suqutra's comment: 


Suqutra said:


> in Hejaz and Morocco it's the same as Fus7a.



I don't know how it's pronounced exactly in Hijaz.


----------



## Suqutra

Mahaodeh said:


> I don't know how it's pronounced exactly in Hijaz.


وَجْه


----------



## Schem

Wajh as well as Wesh in Hejazi Arabic, Wadjh in Najdi Aabic, and Wayh in Gulf Arabic.


----------



## Suqutra

Schem said:


> Wajh as well as Wesh in Hejazi Arabic, Wadjh in Najdi Aabic, and Wayh in Gulf Arabic.


Are there certain areas where the distinction between وجه and وش are made in Hejaz?


----------



## elroy

analeeh said:


> _wishsh_ is perfectly normal in at least some Syrian urban accents, including as far as I'm aware Damascene.





She'lock Holmes said:


> Are you sure of that? If you could find an audio sample (identifying the ethnic origin and where did he or she live would help a lot too) or a linguistic book saying so would be great; although I'm fairly sure the French j is more common there.


 Based on the many hours of Syrian TV I’ve watched, it’s most definitely وِشّ in Damascene!


----------

