# Un borgo fermo nel tempo. Fermati anche tu!



## kperosini

Un borgo femo nel tempo. Fermati anche tu!

Hello everybody, 

hope you can help me find a slogan for a holiday home in Tuscany. 
It doesn't need to be a literal translation, but convey the message of time standing still and invitation to stop and take a break from everyday routine.

My idea: A Borgo where time has stopped. Why don't you too stop and take a break? (but sounds too Italian)

Any idea from members with a more lively imagination?

Thanks 
Katia


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## Paulfromitaly

Hai letto qui?

il tempo si è fermato
Scenari irripetibili ed unici dove il tempo sembra essersi fermato


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## smart_woman07

Io direi: 
An ancient Borgo where the time seems to have stopped/has stopped. Why don't you stop too for a pleasant and relaxing break?


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## elfa

smart_woman07 said:


> Io direi:
> An ancient Borgo where the time has stopped. Why don't you stop too for a pleasant and relaxing break?



I'm afraid a "Borgo" has no meaning in English. It would have to be something like

_A village where time stands still. Go back in time and enjoy a relaxing break!_


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## Lorena1970

kperosini said:


> Un borgo femo nel tempo. Fermati anche tu!



Una proposta:

_An enchanting "Borgo" where time has stopped. Come and stop you as well._

@Elfa: I understand the word "borgo" may not make sense in English, but I can assure that here in Tuscany foreigner tourists are used to (and use) that word.


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## kperosini

Thanks for your useful tips. 
Katia


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## elfa

Lorena1970 said:


> Una proposta:
> 
> _An enchanting Borgo where time has stopped. Come and stop you__ as well._



Hi Lo 

See my post about "Borgo". Also your second sentence isn't grammatical, I'm afraid


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## smart_woman07

Yes Elfa, I agree...it's much better _village_. 
I love your suggestion


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## Lorena1970

elfa said:


> Also your second sentence isn't grammatical, I'm afraid


Yes I realized it but it was too late for editing... I wanted to correct it with "_Let's have a break_" (trying to stick to the Italian sentence)
So it would be:
"_An enchanting "borgo" where time has stopped. Let's have a break_"
Does this sound ok?


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## joanvillafane

The Italian phrase has a nice repetition of "fermare" in two different forms.  Lorena, your sentence with "let's have a break" loses this and it also sounds very casual and informal and for me, and doesn't have the right "ring" for a slogan to attract tourists.   I like elfa's (post #4)
one additional twist:
A village where time stands still.  Stop here and enjoy the stillness.


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## elfa

joanvillafane said:


> A village where time stands still.  Stop here and enjoy the stillness.



Nice 

Edit: Lo, even with the brackets, "borgo" continues to have no meaning for native speakers, I'm afraid. "Burgh" would be the nearest word, but it is very rarely used - and certainly not in a publicity slogan.


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## Lorena1970

joanvillafane said:


> The Italian phrase has a nice repetition of "fermare" in two different forms.  Lorena, your sentence with "let's have a break" loses this and it also sounds very casual and informal and for me, and doesn't have the right "ring" for a slogan to attract tourists.


Good point. I agree!


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## L'Enrico

I'm sure village has the right ring to a native ear, but if it something that Italians will also read, I'm not overly thrilled by it. It would be immediately understood as villaggio, which is good if you are advertising a villaggio vacanze, or alternatively a week in the mud, milking cows.
Should the context allow it, I venture to suggest land, as an alternative. Although this one too could be problematic, if the slogan is leading out with the actual name of the borgo.

E.


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## london calling

L'Enrico said:


> I'm sure village has the right ring to a native ear, but if it something that Italians will also read, I'm not overly thrilled by it. It would be immediately understood as villaggio, which is good if you are advertising a villaggio vacanze, or alternatively a week in the mud, milking cows.
> Should the context allow it, I venture to suggest land, as an alternative. Although this one too could be problematic, if the slogan is leading out with the actual name of the borgo.
> 
> E.


_Land_? Un inglese capirebbe "terra"/"nazione" (Shangri-la) se leggesse "A land where time stands still" ... Poi, gli stranieri leggeranno l'inglese (e _village_ va benissimo) e gli italiani l'italiano - non vedo il problema.

Ho pensato a  "hamlet", ma significa un borgo piccolo piccolo e, come vedrete dal link, per noi inglese è un paese senza chiesa in quanto appartenente ad una parrocchia più grande, mentre per gli americani significa un'altra cosa ancora, per cui generebbe solo confusione.


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## italtrav

The village that's preserved in time— and you're just in time to visit.


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## elfa

italtrav said:


> The village that's preserved in time— and you're just in time to visit.



Not sure, italtrav. "Just in time" sounds like the village is just about to crumble!


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## Lorena1970

Maybe another version could be, inspired by italtrav (just to avoid the "crumbling" effect )

The village that's preserved in time— and it's (the right) time to  visit it.

???


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## rrose17

Maybe a little too cute but
_A little town that time forgot, offering an unforgettable time for you._


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## Lorena1970

I wonder if this one could work as well. Any comment appreciated.
_
A village where time has stopped. Stop here and take your time._


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## italtrav

Lorena1970 said:


> I wonder if this one could work as well. Any comment appreciated.
> _
> A village where time has stopped. Stop here and take your time._


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## NewYorktoLA

I like both RRose's and Lorena's last one, but prefer the use of _village_.   Yes, you need to avoid using _borgo _if you are trying to attract native English speakers. 
I'd avoid the use of "land" to, which evokes the idea of wide open spaces.  
London - I lived in a hamlet and the word evokes the idea of "cute and charming" and also a locality which is part of a larger entity, such as a village.   
I think only Northeasterners would really know this word.


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## Lorena1970

I forgot to say that I think "*hamlet*" works perfectly well here, as a "borgo"  is a "tiny village" generally (but not necessarily) built below/near a castle, often no church (which generally is  in the main village - but being in Italy many hamlets have their own tiny church!) and very few houses with narrow and picturesque streets  where cars have no access.


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## You little ripper!

_Go back in time! A village where time stands still_ might be another option.


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## elfa

You little ripper! said:


> _Go back in time! A village where time stands still_ might be another option.



I like this 

@ Lo, I don't agree that "hamlet" would work here. In BritE, this word is generally only used in the geographical sense when referring to a place's very small size. E.g. _X is a hamlet with only 60 inhabitants situated between the towns of Y and Z._ It's not the kind of word you would ever see in a publicity slogan, no matter how accurate a description it might be of "borgo". Also, you wouldn't persuade people to go to visit a hamlet as they would be convinced there was nothing there to see!  A village can also be very small in size so, in my opinion, this is the natural choice.


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## tananai

hi everyone!
How about 'Step out of time, and into a village where time stands still...'?


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## Tegs

elfa said:


> Also, you wouldn't persuade people to go to visit a hamlet as they would be convinced there was nothing there to see!  A village can also be very small in size so, in my opinion, this is the natural choice.



I agree - I would never be tempted to stop in a "hamlet"  "Village" doesn't have any negative connotations like that


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## Lorena1970

Well, LC made me think of "hamlet", and checking a bit on the web I realized this is how Tuscan "borghi" are named (for foreigners). That's why I added my post. Just out of curiosity, have a look here.  Val d'Orcia, one of the most charming areas of the Tuscan countryside, is scattered with "borghi", which are no doubt different from "villages"("paesini", in Italian) and are commonly described as "hamlets" 



elfa said:


> Also, you wouldn't persuade people to go to visit a  hamlet as they would be convinced there was nothing there to see!


In fact here we are talking of a holiday house in the heart of the Tuscan countryside (not of a place/village to visit!), which almost always means an isolated country house or a house part of a "borgo" in the middle of nowhere (just in case this or this may be described as "nowhere"...)


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## You little ripper!

I always associate the word 'hamlet' with Germany, Austria and Switzerland for some reason. 'Village' is much more multinational in my mind.


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## Lorena1970

You little ripper! said:


> I always associate the word 'hamlet'  with Germany, Austria and Switzerland for some reason. 'Village' is much  more multinational in my mind.


I  understand , but this  specific kind of places in Tuscany are already described as "hamlets" by tourist agencies. Not that I want to persuade anyone: it's just that it does make sense to me in this context. I really don't understand why this  sounds so inappropriate to native's ears.


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## italtrav

Nothing at all wrong with the word hamlet in AE—and it means nothing more than a very small town, i.e., _un borgo_. As the adjective it is most frequently associated with is "peaceful," I Googled "peaceful hamlet" and got the following: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=a+peaceful+hamlet&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


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## Lorena1970

italtrav said:


> I Googled "peaceful hamlet" and got the following:


And this is what I got Googleing "peaceful hamlet Tuscany"...


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## Tunalagatta

Lorena1970 said:


> And this is what I got Googleing "peaceful hamlet Tuscany"...



Some of the houses in those hamlets are "sympathetically renovated", though (i.e. they are translations by Italians). 

Since there is a difference between British, Irish, Aussie and American English in the use/frequency of _hamlet, _but a general consensus that _village _sounds fine, why not use _village_?


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## tananai

Lorena, if you look at the wikipedia entry for ''hamlet", you'll see  that it has different meanings in different countries.. I personally  think it sounds quite nice, but English speakers with different  experiences of hamlets might not agree. Is a _borgo_ in Tuscany more like a _borgata_? If so, then maybe hamlet *is* the right word, but if there are more than a handful of houses, village is probably better. And, if it's really just one big house, I'd go with *manor*, or *country estate*.

Just my two cents


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## L'Enrico

italtrav said:


> Nothing at all wrong with the word hamlet in AE—and it means nothing more than *a very small town, i.e., un borgo. *




I understand that to a foregneir un borgo just looks like a very small town, but the word borgo (together with all the other words for towns from the same root: _berg, _borough, _burgh, maybe also _bury) has a long history. During the so-called "dark centuries", roughly VI-IX a.c., a strategic advantage (high ground, entry of a valley, vicinity to a castle, etc.) was vital for the survival of a settlement. The root of the word dates back to those perillous times, and I associate the word borgo with a very small town, of medieval origin, perched up on top of a hill, or on a hillside, often with a castle attached, or in the vicinity.
You are certainly more qualified than me to choose the right word for a slogan. I just wanted to clarify the image that I associate with the word.

E.


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## london calling

As I said many posts ago _hamlet _is to be avoided in my opinion , as there's quite a lot of disagreement about the meaning of the word: look at all the kerfuffle it's caused here!

I still think that "village", as Jo suggested right from the word go, is the best option.


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## Tegs

london calling said:


> Ho pensato a  "hamlet", ma significa un borgo piccolo piccolo e, per noi inglese è un paese senza chiesa in quanto appartenente ad una parrocchia più grande



As LC said many posts ago, a hamlet has a very specific meaning in BE - no church. So, if you are determined to use it, you need to ensure there isn't a church in the borgo. Personally, I'd save myself some hassle and go for village. As LC says, and as can be seen from the rest of the thread, there really isn't any disagreement among the natives on that one


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## elfa

Lorena1970 said:


> I  understand , but this  specific kind of places in Tuscany are already described as "hamlets" by tourist agencies. Not that I want to persuade anyone: it's just that it does make sense to me in this context. I really don't understand why this  sounds so inappropriate to native's ears.



Morning Lo 

Reading the "tourist agency" entries for "hamlet" that you linked, it seems to me that the word is still linked to a geographical notion i.e. that the places mentioned are technically "hamlets" in the geographical sense and, importantly, that mentioning that doesn't present a disadvantage to the agency's potential clients. In other words, if you want to get away from it all, a tiny hamlet might be your ideal bolthole. However, if you are persuading tourists to stop and visit a place (as opposed to book a holiday where you know nothing much is going to happen there), you would opt for a more generic term. Saying "hamlet" in a slogan is something like the equivalent of using "beverage" instead of "drink" - you'd opt for "drink" now, wouldn't you? 

Hope that helps.


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## SighingatSilvio

Personally, I was happy with Elfa's suggestion way back at #4.

Seems like a lot of martinis have gone under the bridge since then.


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## Tegs

SighingatSilvio said:


> Personally, I was happy with Elfa's suggestion way back at #4.
> 
> Seems like a lot of martinis have gone under the bridge since then.



I agree - let's "go back in time" and enjoy post number 4


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## london calling

SighingatSilvio said:


> Personally, I was happy with Elfa's suggestion way back at #4.
> 
> Seems like a lot of martinis have gone under the bridge since then.


I liked both elfa's and Joan's suggestions.


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## Lorena1970

Thank you for all your replies. Honestly, I didn't imagine to create  such a debate when I wrote my post#22...!
I had checked some dictionaries (WR included) and it just sounded the  right word to me. That's it. 
"Borgo" has  different menings in Italian too, and this old therad didn't seem to have come to a  conclusion... So this discussion is interesting and useful anyway (in my  view at least), doesn't it? The issue is that, particularly in Tuscany  and Umbria, "borgo" is a "special word" (you can see that Wikipedia has a  specific paragraph for Tuscany!) which also identifies very small  settlements located in particular rural areas (often no church nor  "palazzo del comune", an old farm instead which in many cases has been  refurbished and transformed in a residential unit to be let, together  with  the few housed around it ). I also knew that many websites are  translated by Italians, but this doesn't prevent (right or wrong) the word "hamlet" to be  used for these particular cases, does it?(I am wondering) 
I think Elfa in her post#37 got the  meaning right (according to what I imagined was meant in the OP), 


elfa said:


> In other words, if you want to get away from it  all, a tiny hamlet might be your ideal bolthole.


So, I agree that if we are trying to attract tourists to  visit a palce, we would use "village" (like Montepulciano, Gubbio, Pienza et al). 
But the OP asked for a  slogan for a holiday house in a "borgo" and that made me think of  something very different from a holiday house in what is meant with "village", given that the context was Tuscany, of course! I may have misunderstood, but I think that having had more  context, maybe we could have better understood which "geographical  place" we were talking about.


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## Tegs

Lorena1970 said:


> I also knew that many websites are  translated by Italians, but this doesn't prevent (right or wrong) the word "hamlet" to be  used for these particular cases, does it?(I am wondering)



If you want to know how a word is used by _English native speakers_, you cannot rely on translations by _non-native speakers. _


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