# The one who did it



## Abu Talha

I would like to ask about verb conjugations in sentences of the sort where the first or second person is followed by an اسم موصول. 

1. If the اسم موصول is من , then the verb conjugation will always be 3rd person, agreeing with number. Is that right?
2. If the اسم موصول is الذي, etc., then what is the correct verb conjugation? I'll give some example sentences with possible translations, for some variety.



I (m.) am the one who did itأنا الذي فَعَلَهاأنا الذي فعلتُهاI (m.) am the one who will do itأنا الذي سيفعلهاأنا الذي سأفعلهاWe (f.) am the one who did itنحن اللاتي فعلنهانحن الذين فعلناهاWe (f.) am the one who will do itنحن اللاتي سيفعلنهانحن اللاتي سنفعلهاYou (m.) are the one who did itأنتَ الذي فعلهاأنتَ الذي فعلتَهاYou (m.) are the one who will do itأنتَ الذي سيفعلهاأنتَ الذي ستفعلهاYou (f.) are the one who will do itأنتِ التي ستفعلهاأنتِ التي ستفعلينها

My hunch is that for past tense, the conjugation remains that of the initial pronoun, i.e., 1st or second person. And for the future tense, it will change to the 3rd person.

What do you think?

Thanks for your help.


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## Arabus

I am not sure but my instinct says that all the variants you mentioned are correct, including the case in #1 (you can say أنا من فعلت وأنا من سأفعل).

أنا من فعلت
أنا من سأفعل
أنا الذي فعلت
أنا الذي سأفعل

هو من فعل
هو من سيفعل
هو الذي فعل
هو الذي سيفعل

These all feel correct to me.


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## lukebeadgcf

The الضمير العائد, which in your examples is contained in the verbs following the relative pronouns, is technically supposed to agree with the pronoun (i.e. be in the third person), but it more often happens that the العائد instead agrees with the word that the relative pronoun refers to (in which case it can be of any person). Wright (Wright, vol. ii, pg. 324, § 175 B) says:



> The عَائِدٌ after اَلَّذِي originally was, and, strictly speaking, ought to be, a pronoun of the third person, even when the preceding subject is a pronoun of the first or second person; as نَحْنُ ٱلَّذِينَ أَصْبَحُوا إِصْبَاحًا _it is we who arose early_. More usually, however, the عَائِدٌ is brought into agreement with the word to which it refers (compare § 172, rem. _b_); as أَنَا ٱلَّذِي سَمَّتْنِ أُمِّي حَيْدَرَهْ _I am he whom his _(lit. _my_) _mother named Ḥaidara _(_Lion_)*



And looking at § 172, rem. _b_, as is referred to above (which concerns indefinite relative clauses), we find:



> The pronoun in the qualificative clause, which falls back upon the antecedent (اَلْعَائِدُ or اَلرَّاجِعُ [see § 173]), ought, strictly speaking, to be of the third person, even when the subject of the qualified substantive is a pronoun of the first or second person. In practice, however, the one is usually brought into agreement with the other; as إِنَّكُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُونَ _verily ye are a people who are foolish; _إِنَّا لَقَوْمٌ مَا نَرَى ٱلْقَتْلَ شُبَّةً _verily we are a people who count it no disgrace to be slain;_



I might cite:

أنا الذي نظر الأعمى إلى أدبي * وأسمعت كلماتي من به صمم

I can't find a definitive answer about من, but I think you are right; that is, the العائد should be in the third person. It is variable for number though. Examples from Wright (vol. ii pg. 322):



> أُحِبُّ مَنْ يَعْدِلُ _I love him who is just; _مِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَسْتَمِعُونَ إِلَيْكَ _among them are some who harken to thee; _نَكُنْ مِثْلَ مَنْ يَا ذِئْبُ يَصْطَحِبَانِ (_if so,_) _we shall be like those, O wolf, who are comrades;_



It remains to be seen though, can we say:

أنا مَنْ جعلتُ كذا

?

or must we say:

أنا مَنْ جَعَلَ كذا

?

Hope that helps.


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## إسكندراني

Only your first column is correct.


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## lukebeadgcf

The evidence I cited seems to refute that.


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## إسكندراني

OK let me rephrase, only the first column feels correct in a modern setting.


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## lukebeadgcf

Good to know. Do you mean the left or right column?


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## إسكندراني

Oops. The right column, since I am in Arabic mode 

And yes, you can say أنا من جعلت.


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## lukebeadgcf

Thanks. 

And how do you feel about:

أنا مَنْ جَعَلَ كذا

?


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## إسكندراني

I don't like it.
Mind you, it's probably fine. It's just not my 'normal' way of saying it.


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## Abu Talha

Thanks everyone for your replies. They were very helpful. So it appears there is some flexibility and one can choose either way. By the way, I also found this tradition:





> عَنْ أَبِى هُرَيْرَةَ - رضى الله عنه - عَنِ النَّبِىِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ حَاجَّ مُوسَى آدَمَ ، فَقَالَ لَهُ أَنْتَ الَّذِى أَخْرَجْتَ النَّاسَ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ بِذَنْبِكَ وَأَشْقَيْتَهُمْ ... إلخ






lukebeadgcf said:


> Wright (Wright, vol. ii, pg. 324, § 175 B) says:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The عَائِدٌ after اَلَّذِي originally was, and, strictly speaking, ought to be, a pronoun of the third person, even when the preceding subject is a pronoun of the first or second person.
Click to expand...

I think the "ought to be" portion is debatable as, as far as I know, the codification(?) of Standard Arabic grammar is based on the speech of the various tribes of the Arabs of the عصر الرواية  (even if it had changed from some original) and there seems to be some evidence that they had spoken in this way. It would be interesting, however, to learn some more about how it "originally was... a pronoun of the third person" always.



إسكندراني said:


> OK let me rephrase, only the first column feels correct in a modern setting.


I don't know very much at all about the dialects, but I think this kind of structure is almost the same, except for اللي vs الذي? Would you say, to the best of your knowledge, that the dialects would only say it in the way you refer to?

Thanks again, everyone.


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## إسكندراني

I think the flexibility is also present in the dialects. But be careful; there is a restriction with gender and plurals.
 أنت and أنا can take من فعل (M) or من فعلت (F)
نحن and أنتم can take من فعلوا or نحن and أنتن can take من فعلن
similarly for the duals...


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## Abu Talha

Thank you.


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## HotIcyDonut

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread -- Ghabi]
Ahlan.

Can i use a 3rd person verb instead of a 1st or a 2nd one when i mention an actor like this:

It's me/i'm the one who did it

أنا الذي/مَن فعل هذا

Shukran.


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## Mahaodeh

I believe that you _should_ use the third person in this case, it sounds off to me if you say: 
أنا من فعلتُ هذا
It's just wrong if you say:
أنا من فعلتِ هذا


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## elroy

Yes, it has to be third person because the subject is الذي/من.  أنا does not affect the conjugation of the verb.


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## Abu Talha

See also these thread
أنَا الذي سَمّتْني أُمِّي حَيْدَرة‎


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## Mahaodeh

Good to know!

Thanks.


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## Ghabi

elroy said:


> it has to be third person because the subject is الذي/من


Do you mean you won't say انا اللي عملت in Palestinian Arabic?


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## elroy

Ghabi said:


> Do you mean you won't say انا اللي عملت in Palestinian Arabic?


 It's fine in Palestinian Arabic.  I was talking about MSA only.

Based on those previous threads, I may have been wrong about MSA.  Also, the fact that it's correct in Palestinian Arabic suggests that it may be correct in MSA as well.


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## Ghabi

Thanks. That's indeed a normal way to say it in fuS7a, so I thought your take was due to colloquial influence. Is there a preference in Palestinian? For example, if you want to say "it's you who killed him!" are you more inclined to use قتلته or قتله?


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## elroy

Ghabi said:


> For example, if you want to say "it's you who killed him!" are you more inclined to use قتلته or قتله?


 Definitely إنت اللي قتلتو.  إنت اللي قتلو would be wrong.

So my MSA judgment can't have been due to a colloquial influence.


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## akhooha

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread -- Ghabi]
I received a message the other day which included this sentence:
"لست وحدك الذي أصبحت عجوزا"
Unless I misunderstood it, it means "You're not the only one who has become an old man"
My question is : shouldn't the verb be "أصبح" instead of "أصبحت" ??
Thank you.


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## Matat

I don't have the source I read this from, but if I recall correctly, in instances like this, either one would be correct.


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## akhooha

If either one would be correct, would the translations be different?


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## Sun-Shine

akhooha said:


> If either one would be correct, would the translations be different?


No, it's the same.

As matat said either one would be correct.
I prefer to use من instead of الذي
.لست وحدك *من* أصبحت/أصبح عجوزا


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## akhooha

Thank you matat and sunshine.


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