# Being without you will be hard (gerund/infinitive)



## Singinswtt11

Hello everyone!

I would really appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rules of using el+infinitive. I can't think of many examples at the moment...

"el estar sin ti se me hara dificil"
"el leer en las culturas europeas"
"¡el aprender es diversión!" etc.

Can those be translated as gerunds? Being without you will be hard... Reading in European cultures... Reading is fun?

Thank you!


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## mhp

No, gerund can't be used in Spanish.

It is usually said with infinitive without "el", but some phrases are with "el".

see: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=666807&highlight


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## didakticos

Singinswtt11 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I would really appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rules of using el+infinitive. I can't think of many examples at the moment...
> 
> "el estar sin ti se me hara dificil"
> "el leer en las culturas europeas"
> "¡el aprender es diversión!" etc.
> 
> Can those be translated as gerunds? Being without you will be hard... Reading in European cultures... Reading is fun?
> 
> Thank you!


 
While in English you use the gerund, we use the infinitive:

*Being* without you it will be hard = _*Estar*_ sin tí será duro.

*Reading* is fun = _*Leer*_ es divertido.

You don't need to use the article.

Good luck!


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## Bilbo Baggins

Singinswtt11 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I would really appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rules of using el+infinitive. I can't think of many examples at the moment...
> 
> "el estar sin ti se me har*á* dificil"
> "el leer en las culturas europeas"
> "¡el aprender es diversión!" etc.
> 
> Can those be translated as gerunds? Being without you will be hard... Reading in European cultures... Reading is fun?
> 
> Thank you!


 
Yes. Those are the noun versions of those verbs. You can also omit the article if you´d like.


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## Bilbo Baggins

mhp said:


> No gerund can't be used.
> 
> It is usually said with infinitive without "el", but some phrases are with "el".
> 
> see: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=666807&highlight=frotar+acabar


 
Hola:

I think that he wants to know if they can be _*translated*_ as gerunds which of course they are.


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## mhp

Bilbo Baggins said:


> Hola:
> 
> I think that he wants to know if they can be _*translated*_ as gerunds which of course they are.


Oops! Of course they can, and they should.


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## Singinswtt11

Thank you that is what I (she) wanted to know.   Then why is it that sometimes in Spanish it is written with the article? Is it just a matter of preference?


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## magalamaja

In Spanish the gerund can never be subject (in English, as in other languages, it can). In Spanish you then have to turn to the infinitive. The use of the article is primarily a matter of personal taste; giving it a more definitive sense of a noun. It'll depend on the context whether or not the article is preferable or not (as I see it).
Chau!  MLM


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## Singinswtt11

So then the sentence "El aprender mejora el autoestima," is grammatically correct?


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## didakticos

Singinswtt11 said:


> So then the sentence "El aprender mejora el *la *autoestima," is grammatically correct?


 
Like that is better.


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## mhp

Singinswtt11 said:


> Thank you that is what I (she) wanted to know.   Then why is it that sometimes in Spanish it is written with the article? Is it just a matter of preference?


  Most people will say it without the article. But the use of the article, as far as I know, can’t be criticized aside from sounding a bit odd. In general, with nouns, an article is always used to talk about something in the generic sense:

  El pan es bueno (para salud)
  (Bread is good.)

  Applying the same rule to infinitive when used as a noun, it seems like it should be used with the article. But as I said, common usage is without article:

Correr es bueno para salud.
El correr es bueno para salud. (sounds a bit odd)


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## willturner

Hola:

Es correcta salvo por el artículo: "El aprender mejora la autoestima"


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## magalamaja

Sí, grammatically it is. But here, i'd say, there is a very slight difference in meaning. "el aprender mejora la autoestima" refers to the learning process as a 'closed' sorta thing (which is why I'd then prefer "el aprendizaje" - why ser prolijo if it isn't necessary) ; "aprender ..." would be referring more to the process. I am not sure if I am making any sense here, or whether people would like to disagree. I guess, bottomline, use a noun if possible


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## didakticos

magalamaja said:


> Sí, grammatically it is. But here, i'd say, there is a very slight difference in meaning. "el aprender mejora la autoestima" refers to the learning process as a 'closed' sorta thing (which is why I'd then prefer "el aprendizaje" - why ser prolijo if it isn't necessary) ; "aprender ..." would be referring more to the process. I am not sure if I am making any sense here, or whether people would like to disagree. I guess, bottomline, use a noun if possible


 
I agree with magalaja. For example, there is a difference between:

El *bailar*, es tanto un buen ejercicio, como una sana diversión.

El *baile*, es tanto un buen ejercicio, como una sana diversión.


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## Jeromed

magalamaja said:


> Sí, grammatically it is. But here, i'd say, there is a very slight difference in meaning. "el aprender mejora la autoestima" *refers to the learning process as a 'closed' sorta thing* (which is why I'd then prefer "el aprendizaje" - why ser prolijo if it isn't necessary) ; "aprender ..." would be referring more to the process. I am not sure if I am making any sense here, or whether people would like to disagree. I guess, bottomline, use a noun if possible


 
What do you mean by _a *'closed' sorta (?????) thing*_? 
In my view, the use of the article sounds more formal and literary. Period.


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## magalamaja

Hmm, I disagree. Definitely not more 'formal and literary'. Not a period. More like a comma...
Como dije, en mi opinión, depende del contexto. And excusez les mots..  I meant a "a process that to the subjective view of the speaker seems more or less closed" 
Anyway, just trying to help.
Espero se siga entendiendo


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## Singinswtt11

Thank you for _all_ your suggestions. 



willturner said:


> Hola:
> 
> Es correcta salvo por el artículo: "El aprender mejora la autoestima"


 
I was confused about the article because I've seen it both ways so since is started with "a" I took a chance with el.


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## Jeromed

Singinswtt11 said:


> Thank you for _all_ your suggestions.
> 
> I was confused about the article because I've seen it both ways so since is started with "a" I took a chance with el.


 
You normally change _al_ to _el_ when the _a_ in the following word is stressed.  In this case the stress falls on the third syllable, ti.


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## Búkarus

Hi!
You will use an article before an infinitive if you want your sentence sound like a premise, a proverb, a wisdom tip, etc., since that style has a solemn taste.

Another reason to put an article before the infinitive is when you use the infinitive instead of a noun meaning "the action or effect of the verb" or the way to perform a verb:
_El leer _or _la lectura_ en las culturas europeas = _[__The] reading_ in European cultures.
_El_ hipnotizante _caminar_ de las bañistas = The hypnotizing way of walking of the swimmer girls.

I hope it helps a little.
Bye.


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## aleCcowaN

This subject is trickier than it looks first sight.

Infinitive is both a noun and a verb, and sometimes both roles overlaps:

"Al ponerse el Sol, salen las brujas"

poner, as noun, with preposition and article before it, an object; as verb, a "enclítico" and a subject (el Sol).

When the infinitive is just a noun, you can use plural, and you can look it up in the dictionary as a noun: el deber, los deberes, el amanecer, los amaneceres, el saber, los saberes. 

Most uses lies in between these extremes. Some rules of thumb:

-With "infinitivo compuesto" use article for clarity: "el haber cantado no te hace artista".
-With "perífrasis verbales" use article for clarity: "el tener que volver me molestó".
-Never use article in this kind of sentences: "Prohibido fumar"
-When you are focused on the outcome of the actions, use article for clarity:
"El fumar es perjudicial para la salud"

May somebody explain to me the grammar behind "prohibido fumar"?


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## didakticos

May somebody explain to me the grammar behind "prohibido fumar"?

I guess is shorter from _*Es prohibido fumar*_.


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## Singinswtt11

aleCcowaN said:


> this kind of sentence*(no 's' because it is not plural)* : "Prohibido fumar"
> -When you are focused on the outcome of the actions, use *the/an *article for clarity:


 

Hope those corrections are okay. As for the grammar, are you referring to English grammar for those sentences like Smoking is prohibited?


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## mhp

didakticos said:


> May somebody explain to me the grammar behind "prohibido fumar"?
> 
> I guess is shorter from _*Es prohibido fumar*_.


Está/queda prohibido terminantemente 

 Prohibido nadar.
  Swiming prohibited.

  There is really no justification for dropping the verb aside from saving space and using a bigger font. But it does get the message across.


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## aleCcowaN

Singinswtt11 said:


> Hope those corrections are okay. As for the grammar, are you referring to English grammar for those sentences like Smoking is prohibited?


Thanks for the corrections. I'm looking forward the grammar of Spanish "(está) prohibido fumar" because I got some doubts and I don't want to bet what's behind the sentence.


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## Búkarus

aleCcowaN said:


> -With "infinitivo compuesto" use article for clarity: "el haber cantado no te hace artista".
> -With "perífrasis verbales" use article for clarity: "el tener que volver me molestó".
> -Never use article in this kind of sentences: "Prohibido fumar"
> -When you are focused on the outcome of the actions, use article for clarity:
> "El fumar es perjudicial para la salud"


 
Besides the other ones I put in post #19, I would deduce one more situation from this Aleccowan's useful post about using the article before the infinitive: When you mean "the fact of _verb_+ing": 
El [hecho de] _tener_ que volver me molestó = [The fact of] _hav_ing to come back bothered me.

About "Prohibido fumar", I realized that I couldn't phrase another sentence using _participio + infinitivo_ with any other participle different from "_prohibido_". I tried some sentences with "_permitido_", but they felt to have an "invented grammar", not natural at all:
"Permitido fumar" (Hmmm... understandable) 
"Aceptado bailar" (Too unnatural)

The I haven't yet understood tha grammar behinf "Prohibido fumar/hablar/cantar/asomarse/hacer ruido/etc./etc./etc."

Even I wonder why it looks better in uppercase than lowercase: "PROHIBIDO FUMAR"

BYe.


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## Avispero

is there a difference or preference when using the article plus infinitive or the noun if there is one? for example, 
el romper de las olas 
la rompedura de las olas?


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## SevenDays

Avispero said:


> is there a difference or preference when using the article plus infinitive or the noun if there is one? for example,
> el romper de las olas
> la rompedura de las olas?



Here's how I see it.

The infinitive is always noun and verb _at the same time_, and so it "names" (noun) and "describes" (verb) simultaneously. With the article (_el romper_), we emphasize its noun nature, but its verb characteristic doesn't entirely go away, and so we can envision an action in progress. "Rompedura" is just a noun, but it's a noun derived from the verb romper. With, "rompedura," the attention is focused more on the _final result_ of the "breaking of the waves"  rather than on the _entire process_ involved in the breaking of waves. Of course, the entire process of wave breaking can be so short, that, for all practical purposes, there is no discernible difference between "el romper" and "la rompedura."
Hope this helps
Cheers


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## Avispero

thankyou sevendays, a great explanation


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## emi7702

An article is always used to talk about something in the generic sense. English uses gerunds instead of an article. ex: "el aprender" would be "learning..."


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