# lyrics thread



## beberia

wouldnt be better to open a thread "lyric translations"? so that, we can help each others to translate lyrics.
thanks in advance


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## MonsieurAquilone

That sounds like a good idea. It should include book translations etc. as well.


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## ILT

Whether one likes it or not, lyrics are protected by copyright, and the purpose of our rules is to prevent legal problems. We can learn and help, as long as we don't break any laws, which in this case we would.

Rule 17:


> Song lyrics may be quoted up to a maximum of four lines. Members are welcome to post links to complete lyrics, but may not copy extensive quotations to these forums for copyright legal reasons. Threads and posts with song lyric quotations beyond four lines will be removed.


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## maxiogee

Not only could there be a thread for translating lyrics (within the 4-line limit) or better still a whole sub-forum of its own, those seeking to know what rappers mean by some of their irregular constructions could be corralled there also. Keep them off the EO board!
I get tired of trying hard to answer some enquiry — only to find it is an excerpt from an _alleged_ song


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## Whodunit

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Not only could there be a thread for translating lyrics (within the 4-line limit) or better still a whole sub-forum of its own, those seeking to know what rappers mean by some of their irregular constructions could be corralled there also.


 
People can asked to have some lyrics translated in the appropriate forum. If you want to know what that Spanish rapper wants to tell the world, you may go to the Spanish forum and ask about it there. 



> Keep them off the EO board! I get tired of trying hard to answer some enquiry — only to find it is an excerpt from an _alleged_ song


 
What would be the difference between a forum full of English lyric analyzations and an EO board full of English lyrics analyzations?


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## maxiogee

Whodunit said:
			
		

> What would be the difference between a forum full of English lyric analyzations and an EO board full of English lyrics analyzations?



We'd be spared the foreign-language nutters who want translations, and could live in xenophobic bliss discoussing® the latest rantings of gangsta-wannabees who can barely hold a tune!


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## MonsieurAquilone

A sub-forum is a good idea, it would encourage language (i hope not too dirty) that you do actually hear in the real world.  Far from the pristine words of some literature I have read.


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## fenixpollo

I can almost hear you spit when you type the word "literature", _Monsieur_.


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## MonsieurAquilone

Ok, it's not all bad, would you not agree that a sub-forum dealing with words and phrases, however, would be a smart idea.  It is through actual experience in the world that language reveals itself.  - Oh, that was quite poetic!


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## geve

I don't understand, do you mean you would like a forum where you could ask about lyrics in any language? Or a sub-subforum in each language subforum, dedicated to song lyrics?
In French-English it often happens that someone starts a thread about a line in a song, which then leads to a very interesting discussion about word usage, expressions etc. So I'm quite happy the way it is


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## cuchuflete

This is just an early alert that we have been steadily learning about copyright law as it pertains to both lyrics and to translations of lyrics.  This is not about WordReference and its
attitudes or feelings towards the material; rather it is about the law.  We cannot change the law, no matter how much we agree or disagree with it.

First, let's restate that the so-called "fair use" provision allows for brief citations, but not the publication of an entire song.
Based on legal rulings, we define a brief citation as up to four
lines of a song lyric.  More than that should be referenced by a link to a valid web site that does not violate copyrights.

Recently we learned that, in addition to the copyright on lyrics themselves, translations of copyrighted lyrics are violations of the owners' rights, unless they have written permission from the owner of the original.  In the past, some people have posted entire translations.  That's not legal.  In terms of the law, a translation is a "derivative work", and is governed by the same copyright law protections that apply to the original.

Accordingly, questions about the meaning of song lyrics should be focused on specific phrases.  Translations of ten or twenty lines or verses are not legal.  Those who ask for the precise meaning of a song passage, or most poetry, should be aware that often there is no obvious, correct answer.  The language is often figurative, and there will be educated and other interpretations (guesses!), rather than exact translations or explanations. 
Is there any point to isolating all of this to separate forums?
So far, we have opinions in favor and in opposition.  Personally, I see language as language, and figurative language as a subset of language, whether or not it may have been written with the intent to accompany it with melody, musical cadence, or cacaphony.


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## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Recently we learned that, in addition to the copyright on lyrics themselves, translations of copyrighted lyrics are violations of the owners' rights, unless they have written permission from the owner of the original.



Evil, maniacal grin smiley required here —> Does that include translating rap into English?


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## beberia

Tou are talking about "copyright" but when we write, for example, amar sin mentiras" to search sites, we obtain numberless lyrics. when we click on one of them, we dont see any warning of copyright or other things.
I mean, lyrics are stgs like reading a book aloud. 
thanks


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## cuchuflete

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Evil, maniacal grin smiley required here —> Does that include translating rap into English?



Evil, sincere, benevolent, altruistic, and maniacal grin noted here.  If the original were in English, a loose paraphrase would probably not constitute infringement.  However, an attempt at a literal replication in any language other than the original would be a legal violation.


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## GenJen54

beberia said:
			
		

> Tou are talking about "copyright" but when we write, for example, amar sin mentiras" to search sites, we obtain numberless lyrics. when we click on one of them, we dont see any warning of copyright or other things.



The reason you don't see any of these warnings is because many of these sites are in violation of copyright law themselves, and don't bother dealing with the issue. 

Since Word Reference dictionaries operate as a legitimate business, we must be much more diligent, and that includes looking out for copyright infringement in the forums.


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## Kelly B

http://www.betanews.com/article/Music_Industry_to_Attack_Lyric_Tab_Sites/1134421643

"The litigious music industry will have a new target in 2006: sites that provide lyrics and scores to popular songs. The Music Publishers' Association says fines and the removal of such Web sites is not enough -- it is even advocating jail time for those operating these sites."

Enjoy it while it lasts.


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