# How should I pronounce the "tz" sound in the noun Petzval?



## Man8871

Joseph Petzval, a mathematician from the early 1840 was the inventor of modern lenses, but his name is odd to pronounce, the 'tz' is not an English phoneme. Born in Slovakia and he found his career in Vienna. Would he have retained a his native Slovakian sound, or would it have been pronounce more Russian?

Joseph Petzval - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Karton Realista

His surname is German...
Tz should be pronounced as IPA's "ʦ".


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## bibax

Man8871 said:


> ... the 'tz' is not an English phoneme.


IMO the phoneme *ʦ* exists in English (cats, tse-tse fly, etc.).


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## Karton Realista

bibax said:


> IMO the phoneme *ʦ* exists in English (cats, tse-tse fly, etc.).


*Ts*ar, quar*tz*...


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## fdb

Karton Realista said:


> His surname is German...



What is its etymology?


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## Karton Realista

fdb said:


> What is its etymology?


I don't know. If you ask on German forum you'll probably get some answers.


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## fdb

I asked you because you seem to be certain that the name is German rather than Slavic.


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## Man8871

I like the responses. My thought is the last name was Slavic, Vienna was such a cosmopolitan city, but that is my romantic view rather than fact based opinion. Ts would be a stop followed by a fricative air sound, tz would be a stop followed by a voiced fricative airs sound, so the cats example feels weak to me, I do hear some z sound in certain people. I spent time looking at Xi and Zi in Pinyin for guidance, but the tonal languages leave me with more doubts than understanding, the difference may be more glide time to the next vowel. My only thought was go with the IPA and hope.


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## fdb

tz is simply German orthography for /ts/. There is no voicing.


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## Karton Realista

fdb said:


> I asked you because you seem to be certain that the name is German rather than Slavic.


Because I'm a Slavic native speaker and I most time I can tell if a surname is Slavic or Germanic. Especially when


fdb said:


> tz is simply German orthography for /ts/.


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## bibax

Petzval could be a surname of Slavic origin. In Czech and Slovak the noun pecivál ['peʦiva:l] means a lazy fellow who mostly lies around on the oven all day; pec [peʦ] = oven, furnace; váleti (se) = to roll (oneself); povalovati se = to lounge about. Pecivál is also a surname (written Petziwal or Petzival in the old parish registers). In Vienna you can meet Mr. Klestil, Vranitzky/Wranitzky, Lischka, Woditschka/Voditschka, etc. and also Petziwal (company Bogner & Petziwal, Wien). So there is a posibility that Petzval or Petzwal is the CS Pecivál.


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## Karton Realista

Well, that's why his nationality is disputed. But it is definitely German when it comes to spelling, what was (it seems to me) the thing in question.


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