# The right pronounciation of あなた



## FRee^ARouND

For We Chinese it's very easy to learn Japanese. But it suffers me for a long time that how did you pronounce た in あなた.
It seems to be a doubt for me cause I heard the pronouciation is [da]
And It happens in almost every character which is かたetc. in the middle or end of the sentance.
But many people told me as a new learner I'd better pronounce [ta]. And they tell me though its pronounciation is very close to [ta], but it isn't indeed. There are some small distinctions.
But I can't cheat my heart. What I heard is [da] and I've compared it to だ I found no difference. The same people told me that is because my ability of differetiating these pronounciations is poor.
awaiting for you replies,thx in advance.

by the way, will you be surprised if you see a kimono in streets? I always take Japan as a very traditional conutry though may be Japanese people live a mordern life, they highly respect the traditions. But they told me it is common to see it in 80S, not today. If a person wear a kimono in pulic spaces, others will take him or her as a strange person. Japan is just like China in that point(gradually lose its traditions). Is that true?


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## almostfreebird

[Quote: Is that true? ]
It depends, regardless of nationality and age.



[Quote: For We Chinese it's very easy to learn Japanese ]

Like any other languages, 
the more you learn there is always more to learn.

I found a interesting page that would make you think what it is to be fluent in a Language.
http://hikosaemon.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-is-it-to-be-fluent-in-language.html

But anyway,  this belongs to "Cultural Discussions" forum.


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## FRee^ARouND

almostfreebird said:


> [Quote: Is that true? ]
> It depends, regardless of nationality and age.
> 
> 
> 
> [Quote: For We Chinese it's very easy to learn Japanese ]
> 
> Like any other languages,
> the more you learn there is always more to learn.
> 
> I found a interesting page that would make you think what it is to be fluent in a Language.
> http://hikosaemon.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-is-it-to-be-fluent-in-language.html
> 
> But anyway, this belongs to "Cultural Discussions" forum.


 

Thx for your reply, it taught me a lot. But my topic is about pronounciation indeed, that is why I put it here


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## Wishfull

I don't think it is pronounced as "da" in standard Japanese.
It might be possible in Tohoku-dialect.

すきよ、あなた、いまでも、いまでも　becomes
ずぎよ、あなだ、いまでも、いまでも.

I wonder if you're talking with a person who comes from Tohoku area.


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## FRee^ARouND

Wishfull said:


> I don't think it is pronounced as "da" in standard Japanese.
> It might be possible in Tohoku-dialect.
> 
> すきよ、あなた、いまでも、いまでも　becomes
> ずぎよ、あなだ、いまでも、いまでも.
> 
> I wonder if you're talking with a person who comes from Tohoku area.


 
Well but how does it come to my textbook [みなのにほんご] pronounce it as あなだ（by the way.. the same with [watashi]. It becomes to [wadashi]）I thought it is standard Japanese?
So forget about all these. You suggestion is I should read a sentence as its Japanese alphabet i.e. wa-ta-shi a-na-ta right?
thx a lot


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## almostfreebird

You can listen some phrase here:
http://japanese.about.com/od/simplejapanesephrases/p/sjp34-6.htm


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## Wishfull

FRee^ARouND said:


> You suggestion is I should read a sentence as its Japanese alphabet i.e. wa-ta-shi a-na-ta right?  *Right!*



And I wonder your textbook is alright or not??
If a native Japanese wrote it, it should be "みんなのにほんご" instead of "みなのにほんご".


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## FRee^ARouND

Wishfull said:


> And I wonder your textbook is alright or not??
> If a native Japanese wrote it, it should be "みんなのにほんご" instead of "みなのにほんご".


 
Sorry for my misspelling~


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## FRee^ARouND

almostfreebird said:


> You can listen some phrase here:
> http://japanese.about.com/od/simplejapanesephrases/p/sjp34-6.htm


 
Does the pronounciation is[Ana*dawa* ikaga] or just because I missed it?


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## almostfreebird

To me, nata in anata sounds just like nata in Natalie:
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en|es|Natalie


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## Wishfull

Hi.
It is interesting.
My ears and brain recognize it as "anatawa ikaga."
My ears and brain don't recognize it as "anadawa ikaga", definitely not.

I think your ears and brain are too smart to listen to Japanese pronunciation.
I think you had better adapt to the Japanese way of pronunciation.


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## FRee^ARouND

almostfreebird said:


> To me, nata in anata sounds just like nata in Natalie:
> http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en|es|Natalie


 
So you can differentiate Nata in Natalie from nata in anata right?
Well, I think that is the problem I have. I take them no difference.


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## FRee^ARouND

Wishfull said:


> Hi.
> It is interesting.
> My ears and brain recognize it as "anatawa ikaga."
> My ears and brain don't recognize it as "anadawa ikaga", definitely not.
> 
> I think your ears and brain are too smart to listen to Japanese pronunciation.
> I think you had better adapt to the Japanese way of pronunciation.


 
LoL, your humorous answer did make me LoL. I think I should make me, push me be acclimate to Janpanese way...


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## Flaminius

The whole thing depends on how you define T and D.  Apparently the Chinese phonology sets aspirated T against unaspirated D.  As they discuss in the thread, some Chinese Ds are voiced but always voiceless in an isolated initial position.  Aspiration here is not ambition but a puff of air that can be detected by a piece of paper in front of your mouth.  

The Japanese stop consonants (t, d, k, g, for example) are never aspirated.  They are distinguished by their voicedness.  T is voiceless, and D is voiced, alveolar consonant.

To summarise, here is a diagram.
Chinese stops (e.g., T vs. D): [+aspiration] vs. [-aspiration]
Japanese stops (ibid.): [-voiced] vs. [+voiced] 

For the former, [voiced] has very little relevance as a distinctive feature.  For the latter, [aspiration] has not relevance at all.


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## almostfreebird

Other versions:

Natalie in Japanese version
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en|ja|Natalie

anata in Japanese version
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#de|ja|anata

anata in German
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en|de|anata

anata in Spanish
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#de|es|anata

anata in Chinese
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#ja|zh-CN|anata

anata in English
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#de|en|anata


To me, anata sounds anada only in English version.


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## FRee^ARouND

Astonishing.. to me only the German version and the chinese version is [anata]

But it is a little strange because I can sense that [nata] in anata in Japanese version is neither nada nor nata. But in Natalie in Japanese version, I head nada again....But I also can sense it is different from 
anata in English. 

Accordding to what Flaminius said, most of us Chinese have defect in differentiating  voiced consonant  from unaspirated consonant, and now I think it maybe be ture.

Anyway, thanks a lot~ありがとう


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## FRee^ARouND

Flaminius said:


> The whole thing depends on how you define T and D. Apparently the Chinese phonology sets aspirated T against unaspirated D. As they discuss in the thread, some Chinese Ds are voiced but always voiceless in an isolated initial position. Aspiration here is not ambition but a puff of air that can be detected by a piece of paper in front of your mouth.
> 
> The Japanese stop consonants (t, d, k, g, for example) are never aspirated. They are distinguished by their voicedness. T is voiceless, and D is voiced, alveolar consonant.
> 
> To summarise, here is a diagram.
> Chinese stops (e.g., T vs. D): [+aspiration] vs. [-aspiration]
> Japanese stops (ibid.): [-voiced] vs. [+voiced]
> 
> For the former, [voiced] has very little relevance as a distinctive feature. For the latter, [aspiration] has not relevance at all.


 

I think I got you. You mean we have acquired defects in our language system. I can't sense difference because I live in a country hardly can I hear voiced consonant, but full of unaspirated consonant. So I mix them up and that is why I become so confused. Right?

Anyway, thank any and all. I really appreciate your helps!


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## FRee^ARouND

I think I almost get it. nata in anata is nada in Chinese but still nata in Japanese. But nada is no where to be seen in Chinese while is nada in Japanese. (I hope you can understand waht I'm saying )


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## Flaminius

*Free*, I wonder if "defect" is not an awfully biased word to use.  A Japanese learner of Chinese who is having a hard time telling the Chinese T from D is equally entitled to curse the defects of their native language because it has never taught them about aspiration of stop consonants.  Now, which language is indeed defective, eh?

Maybe all languages with dichotomous systems are defective compared to Thai with a three-way system?
[-voiced], [-aspirated]
[-voiced], [+aspirated]
[+voiced], [-aspirated]

Even that is defective in comparison with Sanskrit, where all four combinations of the two features are distinctive phonemes ([p], *; [pʰ], [bʱ]).   *


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## FRee^ARouND

I just take defect as disadvantage in describing one's obstcles in leaning languages other than his or her native. No discrimination. If there is any exist, it will discriminate against Chinese ----my native language first.
But good mention! I'll try to avoid such an ambiguity next.


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## gotoba

What an interesting discussion, I was also wondering if japanese letters as t, p or k were pronounced with that little puff o air, I indeed don't notice it in words starting with p or t, but I have to say I do hear a small puff in words starting with k. 

I'm also learnig chinese, and it was fairly difficult to get used to the difference regarding pronounciation, in fact, I'm still dealing with it.


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