# He loved his children above everything else



## effeundici

*He loved his children above everything else*

Hello everybody, this is what I would like to have on my grave as an epitaph. (In Italian : amò i suoi figli sopra ogni cosa).

How would you translate into Latin? This is a pretty important translation, right? The final version will stay in a cemetary for decades or centuries 
Consider that the Italian version is what I really want to express.

Thanks

PS I am 53 therefore this post may be active and ready for the final version for a long long time. If you read this in 5 or 10 years feel free to suggest 🙃


----------



## Starless74

Hello,
I'd suggest: _Liberos super omnia delexit._


----------



## effeundici

That's fantastic! I guess 99,99% of the persons in Italy will translate into " Mostly he deleted freedom" 🙃

On a more serious note: isn't Liberos ambiguous in Latin? Does it really mean only children? And I would like to mean MY 2 children, not any children



Starless74 said:


> Hello,
> I'd suggest: _Liberos super omnia delexit._


----------



## Starless74

effeundici said:


> On a more serious note: isn't Liberos ambiguous in Latin? Does it really mean only children? And I would like to mean MY 2 children, not any children


As far as I know, _*liberi*_ (_pl_.) specifically indicates (your own) sons/daughters,
while _*puer* _(_m _and_ f_) is_ kid_ in general (regardless of their parents)
and _*filius*_ can be either a child or a whelp/puppy.

If you're afraid of being 'misunderstood' you may also say: _*filios super omnia amavit*_ (although _*amare*_ usually has a more 'man/woman' meaning in Latin).

Wait for more answers on this.


----------



## Cagey

The prefix is 'dis-' so  it is spelled with an 'i' -- D*I*LEXIT (In capitals here because it's difficult to distinguish the lower case 'i'. That won't be a problem if it is carved in stone.)

In this context, I would always interpret 'liberos' as 'children', but filios is also suitable.  Someone else may have an opinion on which is most common on memorials. 

The suffix '-os' is the way classical Latin refers to a group of children of both genders. However, assuming that you have daughters as well as sons, I would be inclined to specify both genders in a modern memorial -- liberos liberasque, or 'filias filiosque.'  Even in classical texts, it is occasionally  unclear whether 'liberos' includes the daughters.  In your case, it would be important to be clear that all your children are equally loved, so no one imagines that they have been left out. In times of great loss, people vulnerable to doubts.


----------



## bearded

Cagey said:


> I would be inclined to specify both genders in a modern memorial


Alternatively, I would suggest the use of 'proles', which refers to both sons and daughters.



effeundici said:


> And I would like to mean MY 2 children, not any children


I don't see why one shouldn't use the possessive adjective 'suus' in this case.

_Prolem suam super omnia dilexit_.


----------



## Scholiast

saluete amici!

First, in the light of the OP's Italian...


effeundici said:


> amò i suoi figli sopra ogni cosa


...I can see little wrong with _liberos_ (or far that matter _filios_) to cover both male and female offspring. Epitaphs do not need to be 'politically correct'. I suspect that many or most Romance-language speakers are less sensitive than we Anglo-Saxons to the awkwardness (more apparent, to me, than real) of masculine-gender plurals covering both male and female creatures.

Secondly how about _prae omnibus_ for 'sopra ogni cosa'?

Σ


----------



## bearded

Hello Scholiast

Just one question:
If you say 'Filios pro omnibus dilexit' couldn't that 'pro omnibus' be understood as ''above all persons'' instead of ''above all things''(as requested)?


----------



## Scholiast

Sorry (@bearded  # 8)

_*prae* omnibus_ was my suggestion in # 7. And as _omnibus_ may be construed as either masc./fem. or neuter, it is tantamount to 'before everything _and_ everyone'.

I should have added: your suggestion of _proles_ I like, as it would include grandchildren if and when they appear. But _liberos_ (_suos_) is closer to what effeundici was asking for.

Σ


----------



## Scholiast

A further thought:

Rhetorically, I am moved to wonder whether _prae omnibus liberos suos dilexit_ might be a more effective word-order. Also, _pace_ Cagey (# 5), one of the beauties of Latin is its capacity for epigrammatic concision, and my feeling is that _liberos *liberasque*_ is inflated and otiose for the purpose.

Σ


----------



## effeundici

Hi Scholiast . I am amazed by your knowledge and this sentence would really mean a lot to me. I'd like to post it in my whatsapp status and my epitaph too.
But one has to accept reality.

If I enter your wonderful Latin into Google translate it translates into this:

*flesh than all the children they are loved

I cannot pay a Latinist to stand 24/7 next to my grave!!*


----------



## Scholiast

@effeundici # 11

Thank you for your amiable remarks.


effeundici said:


> If I enter your wonderful Latin into Google translate it translates into this:
> 
> *flesh than all the children they are loved*



A good illustration of the utter and dire hopelessness of machine-translators. They can never cope, and I believe never will, with inflected languages such as Latin, Greek or Russian  (I shudder to think of the number of people around the world with their arms or other bodily parts emblazoned with 'Latin' tattoos that are in fact gibberish, because they have consulted Google translate rather than a human being.)

So let me explain my syntactical reasoning, word by word:

_prae_: preposition taking ablative, meaning 'before', 'ahead of', 'in front of' (in merit or regard, not in time);
_omnibus_: ablative plural of _omnis _('all'), meaning, as explained in # 9, 'everyone'/'everything';
_liberos_: accusative (plural—but the word in this sense is never used in the singular), hence direct object of the verb, for 'children';
_suos_: = your original _suoi_, in adjectival agreement with _liberos_;
_dilexit_: 3rd person singular, perfect, active, of _diligo_, _diligere_, 'to love'/'to cherish', so meaning 'he loved'.

For a little while I wondered whether the imperfect _diligebat_ might be more appropriate, as indicating a continuous past state or action. But on reflection, I think the perfect tense is more suitable, as it indicates an action or state that is finished.

Glad to have been of service to you.

Σ

Edited afterthought: for the epitaph, you probably need to use upper-case throughout. In which case it would appear as:

PRAE OMNIBVS LIBEROS SVOS DILEXIT

And I would have it put into the Times Roman font. (Not the Times New Roman).


----------



## effeundici

Grazie Scholiast, sono commosso 




Scholiast said:


> @effeundici # 11
> 
> Thank you for your amiable remarks.
> 
> 
> A good illustration of the utter and dire hopelessness of machine-translators. They can never cope, and I believe never will, with inflected languages such as Latin, Greek or Russian  (I shudder to think of the number of people around the world with their arms or other bodily parts emblazoned with 'Latin' tattoos that are in fact gibberish, because they have consulted Google translate rather than a human being.)
> 
> So let me explain my syntactical reasoning, word by word:
> 
> _prae_: preposition taking ablative, meaning 'before', 'ahead of', 'in front of' (in merit or regard, not in time);
> _omnibus_: ablative plural of _omnis _('all'), meaning, as explained in # 9, 'everyone'/'everything';
> _liberos_: accusative (plural—but the word in this sense is never used in the singular), hence direct object of the verb, for 'children';
> _suos_: = your original _suoi_, in adjectival agreement with _liberos_;
> _dilexit_: 3rd person singular, perfect, active, of _diligo_, _diligere_, 'to love'/'to cherish', so meaning 'he loved'.
> 
> For a little while I wondered whether the imperfect _diligebat_ might be more appropriate, as indicating a continuous past state or action. But on reflection, I think the perfect tense is more suitable, as it indicates an action or state that is finished.
> 
> Glad to have been of service to you.
> 
> Σ
> 
> Edited afterthought: for the epitaph, you probably need to use upper-case throughout. In which case it would appear as:
> 
> PRAE OMNIBVS LIBEROS SVOS DILEXIT
> 
> And I would have it put into the Times Roman font. (Not the Times New Roman).


----------



## Scholiast

@effeundici

Prego.


----------

