# Pronunciation of Beijing in English



## Frenchnoob

Hi has anyone else noticed that in english we tend to pronounce the J in Beijing the French way?
But I've only heard mandarin speakers pronounce it with the normal J sound. 
Any idea how this came about?
Was it a historical thing by early English pioneers to china or something like that?
Or could it be that there are different dialects of mandarin Chinese that pronounce it the same way as the French J.


----------



## samanthalee

Frenchnoob said:


> Was it a historical thing by early English pioneers to china or something like that?


I'm quite certain it is nothing historical. Beijing was spelt Peking early last century. We still have the Peking Duck and the Peking University to remind us of this older romanization


----------



## indigoduck

Frenchnoob said:


> Hi has anyone else noticed that in english we tend to pronounce the J in Beijing the French way?
> But I've only heard mandarin speakers pronounce it with the normal J sound.
> Any idea how this came about?
> Was it a historical thing by early English pioneers to china or something like that?
> Or could it be that there are different dialects of mandarin Chinese that pronounce it the same way as the French J.


 
In Canada, our state owned tv network (CBC) pronounced it with the normal J sound. In french, Beijing is still pronounced as "Pekin".

I noticed that people who pronounce it like french J is because they have some hesitation in pronouncing the J, and need to go through the entire production of the sound.. rather than "Jing" it ends up being "Gee-ing".

The following is just my observation:

Some Beijing speakers sound really harsh and i can imagine how they might pronounce the "Jing" part of "Beijing", and how one may interpret it as a thick "J" sound similar to the french "J".

If you heard dialect speakers of Chinese (because of their inability to pronounce the beijing accent - non-learners excluded) such as from Hong Kong, Taiwan etc say the word Beijing, the "J" will will sound sharp and crystal clear (opposite to certain varities of Beijing accent), and will never give you the impression of a French J.

Since Beijing dialect is the Official Dialect of chinese, it's natural that people will want to pronounce it accordingly.


----------



## Smrtman5

An interesting thought. 

Might it have anything to do with the sounds that precede the J? Perhaps transitioning from 'eigh' to 'juh' is not easy for people speaking english (and not enunciating  )


----------



## indigoduck

Smrtman5 said:


> An interesting thought.
> 
> Might it have anything to do with the sounds that precede the J? Perhaps transitioning from 'eigh' to 'juh' is not easy for people speaking english (and not enunciating  )


 
Good point.  Beijing is actually two syllables, and is supposed to be pronounced as such.

Perhaps many people do not know that although written using roman characters, mandarin chinese usually does not have "liaison" or connecting sounds.  Chinese dialects are a different story.

I suppose whoever is pronouncing it like French "J" should try to pronounce Beijing as two separate sounds.


----------



## Serafín33

Smrtman5 said:


> An interesting thought.
> 
> Might it have anything to do with the sounds that precede the J? Perhaps transitioning from 'eigh' to 'juh' is not easy for people speaking english (and not enunciating  )


Although it doesn't seem to give them any trouble in words like age, ages, page, pages, sage, wage, rage, mage, mages...

I really think that it's just that some English speakers assumed the Pinyin "j" was pronounced as in French (being ignorant of the actual pronunciation), and that pronunciation just spread.


----------



## xiaolijie

> I really think that it's just that some English speakers assumed the Pinyin "j" was pronounced as in French (being ignorant of the actual pronunciation), and that pronunciation just spread.


This sounds reasonable. Chinese, after all, is similar to French in that both are foreign languages


----------



## pluiepoco

indigoduck said:


> In Canada, our state owned tv network (CBC) ,,,,,,
> Since Beijing dialect is the Official Dialect of chinese, it's natural that people will want to pronounce it accordingly.


 
I have to point out that beijing dialect is not the official dialect of Chinese.
The spell Pekin is not only found in french, but also in other latin languages, in fact if you are interested in linguistics, you will find the source of these differences.
No matter how it is spelt, it did not reflect the transformation of Chinese prononciation, it is just a simulation of voice. Since 300 years cannot change the voice of Chinese.
By the way, french J is completely absent in Chinese. Or some may say it is like Chinese R.


----------



## indigoduck

pluiepoco said:


> I have to point out that beijing dialect is not the official dialect of Chinese.
> The spell Pekin is not only found in french, but also in other latin languages, in fact if you are interested in linguistics, you will find the source of these differences.
> No matter how it is spelt, it did not reflect the transformation of Chinese prononciation, it is just a simulation of voice. Since 300 years cannot change the voice of Chinese.
> By the way, french J is completely absent in Chinese. Or some may say it is like Chinese R.


 
I thought that it's understood that Mandarin Chinese is based on Beijing Dialect.

Then what is the official dialect of chinese ?


----------



## Serafín33

pluiepoco said:


> The spell Pekin is not only found in french, but also in other latin languages, in fact if you are interested in linguistics, you will find the source of these differences.
> No matter how it is spelt, it did not reflect the transformation of Chinese prononciation, it is just a simulation of voice. Since 300 years cannot change the voice of Chinese.


Sinologists generally agree that the spellings with "k" are due to a change in pronunciation, where there was originally a "Pinyin g" sound there that later evolved to our modern Pinyin j sound.


----------



## xiaolijie

> I thought that it's understood that Mandarin Chinese is based on Beijing Dialect.
> Then what is the official dialect of chinese ?


The "official dialect of Chinese" is called 普通话 , it's an artificial entity which is based on many of Chinese dialects but which draws most heavily on Beijing dialect.


----------



## hkenneth

xiaolijie said:


> The "official dialect of Chinese" is called 普通话 , it's an artificial entity which is based on many of Chinese dialects but which draws most heavily on Beijing dialect.



普通话 = mandarin, which belongs to the northern official language (北方官话).


----------



## aggeloskina

I believe the Mandarin sound of J doesn't exist in english pronunciation nor french. So it's a try from the western reporters. lol


----------

