# Slovak: Construction of 'tá moja sestra.'



## lafz_puchnevala

Hey guys,

I am not sure what this sentence exactly means and the reason for it assuming it's a good construction. It talks about my sister but when do I use it? The usage of 'tá' is confusing here.

 I would think 'to je moja sestra.' would mean 'It's my sister' or 'ona je moja sestra.' to mean 'She's my sister.' would be the message being conveyed here?

Cheers


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## jasio

Hi @lafz_puchnevala 

I believe that a context with the phrase in question could be quite helpful.


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## lafz_puchnevala

@jasio it's from a grammer exercse for nominative case singular. The task is to convert to plural form. No context provided. 
slovake.eu - Learn Slovak online for free

I thought it didnt make much sense too.


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## jazyk

Tá moja sestra - this/that sister of mine
Tie moje sestry - these/those sisters of mine


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi lafz_puchnevala, I agree with jazyk's reply above. In English, of course, there's no difference in *meaning* between "my sister" and "that sister of mine": they refer to the same person.
The difference is stylistic: "that sister of mine" is stylistically marked according to the context in which it's used. That's why it's always helpful to provide context with your question, as jasio noted in #2.
In Slovak, I would expect _tá moja sestra_ to be used in a context in which the person or people being spoken to actually* know* my sister, or at least know that I have a sister, or if the sister has just been mentioned.
This exercise is apparently designed to make the learner tick the right boxes with the correct agreement of the respective determiners _tá _and _moja. _I've written, edited and proofread language-teaching materials, and this particular exercise is, in my opinion, poorly designed, because it's teaching a stylistically advanced and, for the beginner, unnecessary and artificial construction (_tá moja sestra _instead of just _tá sestra_, or _moja sestra)_.


> It talks about my sister but when do I use it? The usage of 'tá' is confusing here.


 You're absolutely right, the exercise has only succeeded in confusing the learner.     The use of stylistic marking shouldn't be introduced at an early stage.
You *never* need to actively use it *at all,* because it doesn't tell us anything more (in terms of *meaning*) than _moja sestra_.


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## jasio

Enquiring Mind said:


> The difference is stylistic: "that sister of mine" is stylistically marked according to the context in which it's used. That's why it's always helpful to provide context with your question, as jasio noted in #2.
> In Slovak, I would expect _tá moja sestra_ to be used in a context in which the person or people being spoken to actually* know* my sister, or at least know that I have a sister, or if the sister has just been mentioned.


Actually, I had a hidden idea to compare the usage of this phrase in Slovak and in Polish.  
A cognate Polish phrase "ta moja siostra" conveys a sort of a criticism, so the usage assumes that not only the addressee knows my sister, but that she's infamous for one reason or another, or that she is a black sheep in the family. Someone not worth even spending time to use adjectives in the phrase. Something like:


> - Co to za dym dziś walił z waszej kuchni?
> - To ta moja siostra znowu spaliła obiad (_assuming that she burns the food quite often... if it were once in a lifetime, I'd say 'To tylko moja siostra spaliła obiad' instead_)


It may be regional though.


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## lafz_puchnevala

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi lafz_puchnevala, I agree with jazyk's reply above. In English, of course, there's no difference in *meaning* between "my sister" and "that sister of mine": they refer to the same person.
> The difference is stylistic: "that sister of mine" is stylistically marked according to the context in which it's used. That's why it's always helpful to provide context with your question, as jasio noted in #2.
> In Slovak, I would expect _tá moja sestra_ to be used in a context in which the person or people being spoken to actually* know* my sister, or at least know that I have a sister, or if the sister has just been mentioned.
> This exercise is apparently designed to make the learner tick the right boxes with the correct agreement of the respective determiners _tá _and _moja. _I've written, edited and proofread language-teaching materials, and this particular exercise is, in my opinion, poorly designed, because it's teaching a stylistically advanced and, for the beginner, unnecessary and artificial construction (_tá moja sestra _instead of just _tá sestra_, or _moja sestra)_.
> You're absolutely right, the exercise has only succeeded in confusing the learner.     The use of stylistic marking shouldn't be introduced at an early stage.
> You *never* need to actively use it *at all,* because it doesn't tell us anything more (in terms of *meaning*) than _moja sestra_.


Thank you for your insight. Being a beginner, I hope I can safely skip this exercise. In English, using such a construction does imply a hidden meaning or context based on what we know of the person, normally said in a sarcastic manner or with a negative connotation. It can be an advanced grammatical structure for sure in this respect.


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## Enquiring Mind

Thanks jasio. Yes, I actually wrote a paragraph pointing out that this usage in Slovak too *may*, but doesn't necessarily, convey a disparaging nuance, as you say is the case in Polish (and this can certainly be the case in Czech too). In the end, however, I deleted it because it isn't *always* the case, and this highlights, as you noted, the need for context. In the end I deleted the paaragraph I'd written because I didn't want to confuse the topic starter even more.


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## francisgranada

jasio said:


> A cognate Polish phrase "ta moja siostra" conveys a sort of a criticism, so the usage assumes that not only the addressee knows my sister, but that she's infamous for one reason or another .....


This works in Slovak as well, and probably in other Slavic languages, too. I'd like to add, that I have the impression that this "tá"  (or "ta" in Polish) here has the function of a _quasi _definite article (which as grammatical category does not exist neither in Slovak nor in Polish), putting extra emphasis on "sister" or making it more concrete.  I can imagine also a positive usage, not necessarily a criticism. E.g. "Tá moja sestra je nejlepšia osoba na svete" (My sister is the best person on earth).


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