# ても and て



## John_Doe

I frequently come across sentences with ～ても used in them, but in some cases ～ても doesn't appear to convey meaning "even though".

For instance


> いきなり振られても困るなあ.
> 
> そんなことをにわかに言いだされても困るよ.
> メードーこのような事で この村における立場を*悪くされても*益のないことだと思いますが



Then I supposed that these temo may very well be just an intensified version of -te. Basically いきなり振られて困るなあ mean the same as the -temo version, right?


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## cristy0505

John_Doe said:


> I frequently come across sentences with ～ても used in them, but in some cases ～ても doesn't appear to convey meaning "even though".
> 
> For instance
> 
> 
> Then I supposed that these temo may very well be just an intensified version of -te. Basically いきなり振られて困るなあ mean the same as the -temo version, right?



In general I understand a word containing "ても" in the end as "even". I said in general.

Like if one tell me Furaretemo, wakaretemo, maketemo. I understand like even if I <input word here>.

But there should be a better explain so I will be following the thread waiting for a native japanese speaker to make this clear for us.


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## tos1

There are cases where the -te version evokes -temo but not always.
いきなり振られて困るなあ is bit strange.

いきなり振られて困っています is almost the same with
いきなり振られても困るなあ .
 "Even if you would suddenly ask me for comment/works, I don't know what to do that." or simply, "Suddenly you asked me for comment/works. I don't ..."

ても/でも can be tlanslated to "Though" or "Even though" only when there is some *contrast *between two clauses. It is same way with English. In case of いきなり振られても困る, it is not contrast but rather cause and effect.

 Following list is various usage of ても/でも, but might not be exhaustive.

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Even though
たとえ～でも/ても

頑張っても報われない
教えても育たない
飲んでも大丈夫です
 いくら書いても手が疲れない
 できなくても文句は言われない
買っても使わない
雨でも出かける
苦労は買ってでもしなさい
何があっても くじけない
食ってもうまくない

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Though
～なのに/～と言っても

同じ色でも、明度が違う
(-de version is OK)

日本と言っても私は寒冷地の生まれだ

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If/Even If/Granting
たとえ～しても/仮に～だとしても 

仮に彼が犯人だったとしても、どこにいるかわからない。
(-te version is OK)

もし彼が犯人でも、私は愛している

 いきなり振られても困る

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Idiomatic ても/でも

at least 
どちらにしても/いずれにしても

whether
寝ても覚めても
犯人が A でも B でも

night and day
明けても暮れても

whenever
いつでも

Besides
それにしても

Must you (do that)?
どうしても?
何が何でも?

But/However (at the beginning of sentences)
でも、/でもね、/でもねぇ、/でもさぁ、/でもよう、
そうは言ってもねぇ

may
～してもよい
(-te version is OK in most cases)

 neither A nor B
忍者でも侍でもない

whatever I think of
どう考えても彼のミスだ

No harm in knowing
知っていても損はない
(-te version is OK, and 知ってて損はない is OK, too)

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It* is not *ても/でも

also; too; either
先生に対しても  = に対して + も
 おもてもうらもない = 表 + も + 裏 + も

very; really
とても大きな家だ

at hand; on hand
てもと = 手元

(disposable) chopsticks
おてもと

demonstration
デモ

--


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## Tonky

ても is used under the condition that the speaker thinks the opinions about the potential outcome may conflict between the speaker and the listener.

For example, 

-窓を開けてもいいですか？ 
The speaker wants to open the window, but at the same time he/she is afraid that someone there *may not* like it opened.

-一緒に行ってもいいよ
The speaker can go with the listener if the listener wants, but implies that the listener thinks otherwise.

-いきなりそう言われても困るなあ
The speaker implies that this person(who said something) is expecting a certain reaction or reply from the speaker, but the speaker cannot (or does not want to) do as this person expects him/her to do.
A says something to B. A expects some reaction, B is troubled and thinks A is expecting something from B. B says ～ても困る.

-このような事でこの村における立場を悪くされても益のないことだと思いますが
The speaker implies that this person may be expecting something good out of this issue, but the speaker disagrees and thinks it has little merit.
A is trying to do something which (B thinks) is making them look bad in this village. B thinks that A doesn't think(or know/realize) it is making them look bad. B says ～ても益のないことだと思う.

After all, to be precise, いきなり振られて困るなあ is not the same as いきなり振られても困るなあ semantically. With the former, the speaker does not imply any conflicted opinions coming from the listener. But in actual usage, some people may not bother much as long as it conveys the necessary information.


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## John_Doe

> -このような事でこの村における立場を悪くされても益のないことだと思いますが
> The speaker implies that this person may be expecting something good out  of this issue, but the speaker disagrees and thinks it has little  merit.



The interlocutor doesn't even think about his social standing. "This issue" is whether hand over two serfs to their master or not. If the sentence was "Even if you give refuge to these fugitive serfs, you will gain nothing but problems (=there's no point doing it)", using -temo would be completely justifiable (as I see it). What the speaker says is only tangential to the argument.


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## Tonky

John_Doe said:


> The interlocutor doesn't even think about his social standing. "This issue" is whether hand over two serfs to their master or not. If the sentence was "Even if you give refuge to these fugitive serfs, you will gain nothing but problems (=there's no point doing it)", using -temo would be completely justifiable (as I see it). What the speaker says is only tangential to the argument.


First of all, I hope you understand that my previous explanation for that sentence was done without seeing any context, but focusing only to show how "temo" is working in that sentence, that is to say, it is a sign of disagreement to whatever the speaker assumes the interlocutor has in mind (or doesn't).

***compare ても vs と***
いきなり言われる*と*困る When You tell me this out of blue, I'm(ll be) troubled. (conditional)
いきなり言われ*ても*困る [You may think it's okay, but] I'm troubled that you tell me this out of blue.
cf. いきなり言われ*て*困る I'm troubled as you tell(told) me this out of blue.

So, considering what you said, it is actually about a persuasion technique the speaker used.
奴隷？二人を主人に引き渡す→村での立場が悪くなる→益がない
"If you hand over these two serfs to their master, you will risk your reputation/social standing, which does nothing good for you" is the whole information being conveyed here.
However, saying "二人を引き渡すと、この村での立場を悪くされます" could offend him as if preaching the guy arrogantly or treating him as someone inferior or unintelligent who does not have a brain. Also, ”二人を引き渡しても益のないことと思います" is not enough to convince him since he is not considering his 立場 at all. 
So, knowing the interlocutor has not been considering the effect of what he is doing, the speaker is pointing out this potential risk of his social standing in the village as a fact and a warning, instead of an opinion, and then follows with a general opinion of 立場を悪くする→益のないこと that many could obviously agree with. The interlocutor can agree with that and say "You're right", realizing this "cause and effect" without being embarrassed and/or offended. Thus, このような事でこの村での立場を悪くされても益のないことだと思いますが/I'm afraid risking your social standing in this village by such (worthless) issue would not benefit you, sir?

Does that help any?


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## John_Doe

> Does that help any?


That was very helpful. As your explanations always are.



> However, saying "二人を引き渡すと、この村での立場を悪くされます" could offend him as if  preaching the guy arrogantly or treating him as someone inferior or  unintelligent who does not have a brain.





> So, knowing the interlocutor has not been considering the effect of what he is doing,  the speaker is pointing out this potential risk of his social standing  in the village as a fact and a warning, instead of an opinion, and then  follows with a general opinion of 立場を悪くする→益のないこと that many could  obviously agree with.


Boy, that's deep. Now I start feeling like I can't produce a sentence in Japanese without insulting someone, not even being aware of it.


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## John_Doe

Another confusing case of using of -temo came up.

One guy (あの若者, Zeren) offered Lawrence, a peddler, a deal: he tells which silver coin is going to be reissued with a higher content of silver in it in so that the peddler could speculate on this in exchange of 10% of the future profit. Plus, the peddler gives Zeren 10 coins for the inside information. Should the information prove to be false, Zeren would have to give back the coins.

After the deal was made, a companion of the peddler explains to him what Zeren is really up to and says:

最悪で儲けがゼロじゃ。仮に銀貨の値が下がって ぬしが損をしたとしてもあの若者は受け取った銀貨を返すだけじゃ。 逆に上がれば利益の一部がもらえる。 元手はいらず儲かる可能性は*あっても*あの若者が損することは絶対にない。


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## Tonky

John_Doe said:


> 仮に銀貨の値が下がって ぬしが損をしたとしてもあの若者は受け取った銀貨を返すだけじゃ。
> 儲かる可能性はあってもあの若者が損することは絶対にない。


Those underlined above are the same temo, a conditional leading to an unexpected(opposite from expected) outcome, as tos1 posted above.


tos1 said:


> Even though
> たとえ～でも/ても
> 
> 頑張っても報われない
> 教えても育たない
> :



仮に銀貨の値が下がって ぬしが損をしたとしてもあの若者は受け取った銀貨を返すだけじゃ。
_Suppose the silver price drops and you suffer some loss, that young man would only have to return the silver coins he had received._
(Even if the silver price drops and you suffer some loss, that young man does not suffer, as he would only have to return the received coins.)
-> in general : "if you suffer a loss, then he suffers a loss too".

儲かる可能性はあってもあの若者が損することは絶対にない。
_While there is a possibility for that young man to make some money, there is none to lose some._
(Even if there is a possibility for that young man to make some money, there is absolutely no risk for him.)
-> in general : "when he tries to make some money, he takes some risks/he could lose some money."


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## John_Doe

Thank you. I was interested only in 儲かる可能性はあっても (that's why I marked it red), though.



> (Even if there is a possibility for that young man to make some money, there is absolutely no risk for him.)



It seems I read it wrong. I thought the scope was [元手はいらず儲かる可能性はあっても] and didn't pay attention to the adjoining 儲かる可能性. "Even without initial funding...he can't suffer any loss? I don't see any contradiction here, it seems I need to ask the wordreference folk again," I thought )


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## Tonky

John_Doe said:


> I was interested only in 儲かる可能性はあっても (that's why I marked it red), though.


I noticed, but just wanted to point out that they are the same temo.




John_Doe said:


> It seems I read it wrong. I thought the scope was [元手はいらず儲かる可能性はあっても] and didn't pay attention to the adjoining 儲かる可能性. "Even without initial funding...he can't suffer any loss? I don't see any contradiction here, it seems I need to ask the wordreference folk again," I thought )


I see. It is actually the writer's part and not your fault. Anime/Manga scripts often lack skilled proofreaders' work. It should be 元手はいらず*、*儲かる可能性はあっても….


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