# Hindi: Beautiful Soul



## Montsuel

Hello!

I made some research on this translation but I am not sure what is the correct option:
Atma Sundari
Atma Sundara
Sundara Atma
Sundari Atma
... other?

This will be the name of my girlfriend's cosmetics and health care business, so there is no actual need for accuracy but we would prefer to have it right 

She loves Yoga, meditation and all the like so she wants to use some Hindi name, but we have no idea who to ask.

Thanks in advance!


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## mundiya

सुंदर आत्मा "sundar aatmaa" means beautiful soul. सुंदर "sundar" is an adjective meaning beautiful, and आत्मा "aatmaa" means soul.  सुंदरी "sundarii" is a noun meaning beauty or a beautiful woman. Good luck to your girlfriend and her business!


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## littlepond

I would say "sundar man" (सुंदर मन) rather, since "aatmaa" has no equivalent translation in English (as there is no such concept outside of Indian thought): the closest translation in English for "aatmaa" is "spirit" rather than "soul".

However, as accuracy is not needed and if you are fine with misleading people, then from a marketing point of view, "aatmaa" _sounds _more spiritual than "man", so you can probably go along with mundiya jii's suggestion.


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## Montsuel

Great!! Thank you for the prompt responses.

I thought that ātmā means soul, like in Mahātmā = "Great Soul"

Actually our native tongue is Spanish, not English. I am writing in English only because there is no Spanish-Hindi forum here 

I do not think that the difference between "spirit" and "soul" is important here in Argentina, so I would go with "sundar aatmaa".
Could it be "sundar atma" for short? Or maybe "sundar ātmā"? It is weird to have two equal vocals together. And on top of that, google image search for "atma" has much better results than "aatmaa"...

Thank you again!


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## mundiya

"aatmaa" can mean soul or spirit, with the primary definition being soul. And yes, Mahātmā is translated as "Great Soul". The primary definition of "man", on the other hand, is the mind; with heart, soul and others being figurative meanings.

Therefore, my recommendation is to go with "sundar aatmaa". If you look at our forum transliteration guidelines you will see that aatmaa = ātmā. You could Romanize it any way you wish outside the forum: aatmaa, atma, or ātmā.


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## Montsuel

mundiya thank you very much!


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## littlepond

It is only for want of translation that Mahatma is translated as "Great Soul": literally, it means "Great Aatmaa", with aatmaa being untranslatable. (In Spanish, too, it remains untranslatable: the concept does not exist in Europe.)

However, as many people _think _that "aatmaa" means "soul" (befuddled philosophy and logic), so you _can_ of course go along with that, as I said earlier. As for spellings, as mundiya jii said, you can go with whatever pleases you: after all, Hindi or Sanskrit are not written in roman alphabet, so none of the styles of transliteration is more accurate than the others given the lack of any other precision.


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## Montsuel

Very interesting. I think I understand your comment littlepond. I remember something from a book about Ashtavakra Gita I read some time ago. I think I will review it haha.

Thank you again! Cheers


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## Dib

By the way, "sundar atma" as a phrase sounds very awkward to me, quite unlike "beautiful soul" which is a beautiful expression in English. Am I being too picky here?


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## tonyspeed

Dib said:


> By the way, "sundar atma" as a phrase sounds very awkward to me, quite unlike "beautiful soul" which is a beautiful expression in English. Am I being too picky here?


I think you are right. Because in English when people say "beautiful soul" they are not speaking of some internal energy or spirit. Here soul means the person in total, specifically the personality.

A better phrase might be:
sundar charitra, sundarman,


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## mundiya

Dib said:


> By the way, "sundar atma" as a phrase sounds very awkward to me, quite unlike "beautiful soul" which is a beautiful expression in English. Am I being too picky here?



I do think you're being picky because "sundar aatmaa" is used in literature, so there is a precedent for it. However, tonyspeed makes a valid point about the figurative usage in English.


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## Dib

mundiya said:


> I do think you're being picky because "sundar aatmaa" is used in literature, so there is a precedent for it.



Thank you for setting the record straight, mundiya jii. But as you can imagine, I am curious to find out in what context this expression has been used in Hindi literature. Any pointers?



> However, tonyspeed makes a valid point about the figurative usage in English.



Indeed. I was thinking that it was one of those contexts where we can translate the words, but they probably no more convey the same message to people from a different cultural tradition ... lost in translation, so to say. I have found that the concept of "the beautiful soul" exists in general in various European languages with more or less similar connotation (French "la belle âme", German "die schöne Seele", Spanish "el alma hermosa", etc.) Surprisingly, German wikipedia even has a short article on the very concept and its evolution from Classical Greek concept of "kalokagathia", and its development and popularization by German and French authors. It will be instructive to see whether the Hindi usage reflects an adoption of the same tradition (as reflected in the connotation of the English "beautiful soul", for example), or has a different concept behind it.


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## Khaanabadosh

I'm sorry to say, but I agree with Dib that this phrase sounds very awkward, though it's short and easier to pronounce for non-native speakers.

What about आंतरिक सौंदर्य - Inner Beauty?


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## mundiya

Dib said:


> Thank you for setting the record straight, mundiya jii. But as you can imagine, I am curious to find out in what context this expression has been used in Hindi literature. Any pointers?



I'll provide a few examples from books:

"Saphal jiivan" - kintu yaad rakho, sundar aatmaa hii sundartaa ko dekh paatii hai.

"Andhere band kamre" - maiN jaantaa huuN mere andar vah kuchh nahiiN hai jis se ek kalaakaar kii sundar aatmaa kaa nirmaan hotaa hai.

"PaaNchvaaN pahar" - chaaNdii kii kaTorii jaisii svachchh, sundar aatmaa saaph saaph (saaf saaf) dikhaayii de rahii ho.



> Indeed. I was thinking that it was one of those contexts where we can translate the words, but they probably no more convey the same message to people from a different cultural tradition ... lost in translation, so to say. I have found that the concept of "the beautiful soul" exists in general in various European languages with more or less similar connotation (French "la belle âme", German "die schöne Seele", Spanish "el alma hermosa", etc.) Surprisingly, German wikipedia even has a short article on the very concept and its evolution from Classical Greek concept of "kalokagathia", and its development and popularization by German and French authors. It will be instructive to see whether the Hindi usage reflects an adoption of the same tradition (as reflected in the connotation of the English "beautiful soul", for example), or has a different concept behind it.



I interpreted the OP's question as meaning a literal translation of the phrase "beautiful soul" (hence: sundar aatmaa), and not necessarily whether the Hindi phrase has the same currency as the English one. I could be wrong about the OP's intentions.


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## Montsuel

Dib said:


> Indeed. I was thinking that it was one of those contexts where we can translate the words, but they probably no more convey the same message to people from a different cultural tradition ... lost in translation, so to say...





mundiya said:


> I interpreted the OP's question as meaning a literal translation of the phrase "beautiful soul" (hence: sundar aatmaa), and not necessarily whether the Hindi phrase has the same currency as the English one. I could be wrong about the OP's intentions.


You are both right. From a marketing point of view, here in South America "sundar ātmā" does not sound ugly at all. Actually there is a lot of hindi words and phrases that sound quite lovely or comfortable to us. I don't know whether this is just because of the European Spanish we learnt in school and the common Indo-european roots, or maybe it has something to do with the native american culture that surrounds us. We have an important number of words or expressions that have nothing to do with European Spanish! 

Anyway, I wrote this post beacause we have a lot of friends that are very involved in Hinduism, they travel to India from time to time, etc. so we don't want to use some completely wrong title for the business.

However we now think that the first reply (from mundiya) gave us a good hint: We could use simply "SUNDARII" as it stands for beautiful woman, and forget about the spiritual part hahaha


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## Dib

@Montsuel: I like the option of "Sundari(i)" as the name of your business. All the best to you guys.

@mundiya: Thanks a lot for the examples. I'd, however, like to check the extended contexts - not necessarily here on this forum. So, if it is not too much trouble, could you please give more details, e.g. page no. or at least section/chapter no. etc.? And, all the better if they can be read online. I could find "Andhere band kamre" on google books.


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## tarkshya

May be it's just me, but I have always felt ascetical and renunciatory connotations with the word "aatmaa". If I were you, I would avoid the word altogether in a business dealing with beauty products/services.


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## littlepond

@Montsuel : Marketing depends on whom you are targeting. If it is people who are pseudo-spiritual, then "sundar aatmaa" can work very well. For people really knowledgeable about Hinduism, they will see through the stunt and in fact such a name will reflect badly on the enterprise. I personally would never use the services of someone with such a name, as I find such equation of Western "soul" with Hindu concept of "aatmaa" quite brainless and even insulting. You already have had many other users' inputs: I don't think at all that Dib jii has been too picky.

Meanwhile, "sundarii" is a nice name, if the cosmetics are solely governed for the female sex.


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## Montsuel

Thank you all for the responses! You guys have been so gentle, we really appreciate it.

OK now we are wondering about a totally different name! haha 

What would you suggest? Should I start a new thread?

Some words that I like are: Sahaj - Pyaara / Pyaaraa - Vaatsalya - Shanti - Mitrah - Samaadhi - Dhyaana - Samsara - Dharma - Satya ...


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## marrish

Do start a new thread please, because there is no longer "beautiful soul" between them.


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