# сервисмен



## cacolazatchok

Bonsoir, je cherche à traduire le terme "сервисменов" dans la phrase suivante: 
Чемпионат мира по легкой атлетике - это  2 тыс. тренеров и сервисменов.

Je vois bien la racine anglaise de servicemen, mais j'ignore si cela se rapporte à quelque chose de précis dans le domaine du sport, où je l'avoue, je n'y connais rien... En anglais, le terme se rapporte aux militaires, donc aucun rapport j'imagine...

Les championnats du monde d'athlétisme regroupent deux mille entraîneurs et...coach (au hasard!) ?

merci de votre aide!


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## pqz

Hello, "Сервисмен" can mean:


a person, who works in the service sector, 
a person, who provides warranty service.


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## Lotto74

*Cacolazatchok
*
Pardonne moi, je ne parle pas Francais. I can read it, but cannot answer properly.

The word "servicemen" (сервисмен) is not used in the Russian language at all. I suppose the person who wrote this sentence meant "обслуживающий персонал" (service personnel).


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## Maroseika

Lotto74 said:


> The word "servicemen" (сервисмен) is not used in the Russian language at all. I suppose the person who wrote this sentence meant "обслуживающий персонал" (service personnel).



Сервисмен is widely used in the sport slang and can be often heard from the TV commentators, especially of ski competitions (applied to those who wax skis). I cannot imagine to hear  anything like обслуживающий персонал in such context.


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## Lotto74

Maroseika said:


> Сервисмен is widely used in the sport slang and can be often heard from the TV commentators, especially of ski competitions (applied to those who wax skis).



I never heard anything like that. So, this must be some slang which is not well-known. "Обслуга" or "техник" - yes, if you want a short word, but not "сервисмен".

This is similar to "cleaning manager" or "landscape designer" instead of "janitor", I suppose.


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## Maroseika

Lotto74 said:


> I never heard anything like that. So, this must be some slang which is not well-known. "Обслуга" or "техник" - yes, if you want a short word, but not "сервисмен".



I'm very sorry, but if you don't know a word, it doesn't mean without fail that it is not well known. Обслуга and техник are absolutely unapplicable, confusing and not clear in the context of ski sports.


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## Enquiring Mind

" ... regroupent deux mille entraîneurs et *assistants* ..."  [en anglais - support (crew)]


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## cacolazatchok

I was very confused by this word too! Sometimes, russian language uses an english word but doesn't respect its sense, so it's kind of complicated for us, french people! Thank you though for all your explainations, I'm going to stay as neutral as possible...

Merci Enquiring mind! Je pense que je vais opter pour votre proposition. J'ai fait une recherche sur internet et j'ai vu que ce terme s'utilise pas mal en ce moment dans le jargon sportif...


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## Lotto74

Maroseika said:


> I'm very sorry, but if you don't know a word, it doesn't mean without fail that it is not well known. Обслуга and техник are absolutely unapplicable, confusing and not clear in the context of ski sports.



First of all, the word "сервисмен" does not exist in Russian, even if some people use it in different circumstances. Search for it with Google - it will show you that this word is very rarely used, and every time its meaning is different. This is even not a professional term, just slang used in small groups of people who do not influence the Russian language at all. Yes, as a computer engineer I can use many words which are, in fact, original non-translated English terms. However, there is a big chance that even my colleagues won't understand me if I use them. If I need them to understand me, I use correct Russian words.

Second, if you don't like the word "обслуга", it doesn't mean you can use Anglicisms in your speech. Find another synonym. For example, the word "помощник" ("assistant") proposed by Enquiring Mind fits the situation pretty well.

In fact, I'm tired of unlearned people who could not speak their native language properly and invent non-existent words just because of that. Just one example - "формула" instead of "состав" which is widely used in advertisements of shampoo and things like that. This is usual ignorance, not creativity.


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## Maroseika

Lotto74 said:


> if you don't like the word "обслуга", it doesn't mean you can use Anglicisms in your speech. Find another synonym. For example, the word "помощник" ("assistant") proposed by Enquiring Mind fits the situation pretty well.


I think those who need this word and who have enough taste to reject the word обслуга, will find the proper word without your or my assistance.
If the choice is good, the word will some time come from the slang to the common dictionaries, and if not - nobody will ever remember it.
For the topic starter the only important information is that this word is slang, not literary, and in this status it does exist in the language. All the rest is up to him - use it or not use or how use and so on. 



> In fact, I'm tired of unlearned people who could not speak their native language properly and invent non-existent words just because of that.


I wonder how one can invent existing words... After all, any word had been "invented" once, and before that it has never existed. Loaning and transliteration is one of the mechanisms of "inventing" words.


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## Ёж!

Lotto74 said:


> Second, if you don't like the word "обслуга", it doesn't mean you can use Anglicisms in your speech. Find another synonym.


Looks like you're ready to take the gun and shoot. I'm terrified. Really terrified.


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## Nanon

Enquiring Mind said:


> " ... regroupent deux mille entraîneurs et *assistants* ..."  [en anglais - support (crew)]


Pas mal . Je suggère aussi personnel d'organisation (_assistant _étant souvent utilisé en handisport pour autre chose que le service ou l'organisation).


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## Lotto74

Maroseika said:


> Loaning and transliteration is one of the mechanisms of "inventing" words.



Yes, this is correct. But those mechanisms must be used if, and only if, there is no word with the same meaning in the language. This process is natural in quickly developing technical and scientific areas, but the main motives of loaning in areas existing for centuries without changes are ignorance and wish to look better than you are. "I'm a cleaning manager" instead of "I'm a janitor" - yep, quite impressive.


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## Maroseika

Lotto74 said:


> Yes, this is correct. But those mechanisms must be used if...



The only wrong word here is "must". Any native is free to use and invent any word in any way he wants, and all other natives are free to agree or not. Coming back to сервисмен, we can see this word is quite typical for Russian language, where we can see other words of the same type: бармен, бизнесмен, блюзмен. There are people who need this word, so I don't see why it can't get into dictionaroes in some time.
On the other hand, you are free to invent any other word and offer it to those who need them. And see how they like it. Maybe they will really like it, who knows.


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## Lotto74

Maroseika said:


> There are people who need this word, so I don't see why it can't get into dictionaroes in some time.
> On the other hand, you are free to invent any other word and offer it to those who need them. And see how they like it. Maybe they will really like it, who knows.



Any language is used for facilitating communications, not for making them more difficult. If you introduce new words thoughtlessly, people simply could not understand you. Yes, sometimes you have no choice but to loan a new word. However, usually it is not necessary. Yes, ignorant copyrighters could think that "формула шампуня" is an excellent translation, but it does not deny the simple fact that this could NOT be used in Russian language due to existence of the term "состав" ("состав шампуня").

In fact, this discussion is quite old. For instance, you could read book "Слово живое и мертвое" by Нора Галь. Usage of foreign words in the Russian language when translating a text is discussed there in depth. The author is an old school purist, but she has her point.


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## Ёж!

Lotto74 said:


> Yes, ignorant copyrighters could think that "формула шампуня" is an excellent translation, but it does not deny the simple fact that this could NOT be used in Russian language due to existence of the term "состав" ("состав шампуня").


Why are you shouting this loudly? See, making statements so boldly brings the question as to who uses the term 'ignorant'... As for the ads slogan, it is supposed to be meaningless.


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## Lotto74

Ёж! said:


> See, making statements so boldly brings the question as to who uses the term 'ignorant'...



A person who knows the Russian language pretty well. Isn't it enough?


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## Ёж!

The problem is, others are not supposed to use the Russian language to your liking. What you have said so far was "I don't like that, I don't like this, I don't like that". This does not count as argumentation. What you said also was that using Anglicisms hinders communication; a point which is impossible to prove unless you take the same "I don't like this" approach. I'm not saying that valid arguments for avoiding certain words or figures of speech in certain circumstances cannot exist; but you haven't provided any.


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## Paulfromitaly

> *Moderation note:*
> Let me remind you what the starting question is:
> 
> 
> 
> Bonsoir, je cherche à traduire le terme "сервисменов" dans la phrase suivante:
> Чемпионат мира по легкой атлетике - это  2 тыс. тренеров и сервисменов.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not drag this thread off topic. If you want to contribute to this thread, please do it in a respectful and cordial tone. Failure to do so will result in the closing of the thread.
Click to expand...


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