# FR: J'ai lui dit / Je lui ai dit



## Manorrd

I've been taught that the indirect object pronoun, in this case lui, is placed thus:

Je lui ai dit - I said to him.

But everyone I listen to says "J'ai lui dit".  

I'm confused.

Any pointers?


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## jann

welcome to the forum, manorrd 

_je lui ai dit_ 
_j'ai lui dit_ 

what you are probably hearing is (writing it down the way it sounds):
_j'lui ai dit_


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## Cath.S.

Hi and welcome Manorrd.

I'm pretty sure you're mishearing that sentence, since no native speaker would ever say _j'ai lui dit_, not because it is not good grammar - few eople would be deterred by that detail - but because it is not idiomatic.

I think they say _je lui ai dit; _pronounced fast, it sounds like "j' lué dit".

p.s. Give the _Méditerranée_ a big hug  for me please. Thanks in advance!


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## Manorrd

jann said:


> welcome to the forum, manorrd
> 
> _je lui ai dit_
> _j'ai lui dit_
> 
> what you are probably hearing is (writing it down the way it sounds):
> _j'lui ai dit_


Thanks for the correction.

Do a google on google.fr with "J'ai lui dit" and you'll see hundreds of examples.

I'm pretty sure I'm hearing "J'ai lui dit", but my ear is by no means 100 percent.


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## viera

Could it be "Alors je lui dis" as in the colloquial "So I says to him" ?


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## Jalc

Manorrd said:


> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Do a google on google.fr with "J'ai lui dit" and you'll see hundreds of examples.


 

Amazing, at least 1.000 grammar errors on the web!

They are all wrong, but I am not so surprised because I would not dare to give you the address of the blog of my daughter...


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## timpeac

And a similar number for "j'ai lui donné" - how intriguing!

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q="J'ai+lui+donné"

I note one person says "j'ai lui donné...et il m'a donné..." so is this something that just affects "lui"?


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## timpeac

Jalc said:


> Amazing, at least 1.000 grammar errors on the web!
> 
> They are all wrong, but I am not so surprised because I would not dare to give you the address of the blog of my daughter...


But what type of "wrong" are they - the sort where everyone agrees it is grammatically incorrect but people do it anyway like dropping "ne" or wrong in the sense that you can't imagine people saying it apart from by complete accident in the way we all mix our words up a little bit from time time to?


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## Cath.S.

I've just googled for j'ai lui dit and amazingly enough a few* people seem to think that it is the right way to spell it, so I want to emphasize the fact that it is very rare, not to mention wrong. Those people might all be suffering from dyslexia. 

I don't think I've ever heard it myself - and believe you me I've been subjected to zillions of incredibly ungrammatical sentences in my life! Now you raised some doubts though, it might have been a case of my brains refusing to believe my ears... 

*1000 is a small number compared to  *905 000*


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## Manorrd

I found many examples on the web, but I'm not allowed to post URLs  

One of them was a medical site, and, ironically, my doctor is the one I remember hearing saying, "et...j'ai lui dit..(something about "you just hit my golf ball  lol).

Anyway...the list I found on the Internet goes on and on.  But if you fine folks say I'm hearing it wrong and that it's bad grammar on the net, then I'm sold.

I was told "Je lui ai dit" as well.

By the way, thanks for the welcome, and the Côte d'Azur thanks you for the hug!


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## timpeac

Manorrd said:


> I found many examples on the web, but I'm not allowed to post URLs
> 
> One of them was a medical site, and, ironically, my doctor is the one I remember hearing saying, "et...j'ai lui dit..(something about "you just hit my golf ball lol).
> 
> Anyway...the list I found on the Internet goes on and on. But if you fine folks say I'm hearing it wrong and that it's bad grammar on the net, then I'm sold.
> 
> I was told "Je lui ai dit" as well.
> 
> By the way, thanks for the welcome, and the Côte d'Azur thanks you for the hug!


The next time you hear someone do it - and if you don't think they'll take it badly - ask innocently if that is correct since you're confused as to which is best (playing innocent so as not to sound like your criticising just asking a question as a foreigner). And let us know the answer!!


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## Manorrd

viera said:


> Could it be "Alors je lui dis" as in the colloquial "So I says to him" ?


Now THAT could very well be...


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## timpeac

egueule said:


> *1000 is a small number compared to *905 000*


It is...but it is nagglingly annoyingly not quite small enough to completely dismiss either. Also, I looked through the list and it did seem that most of the examples were by native speakers (something you always have to check when looking at English usage since there are so many foreigners writing in their own special idea of English on the net!)


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## Jalc

I tried "J'ai lui", and have gone through a few pages of the 16.000 cases. I have not found a single one which is grammatically correct.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q="J'ai+lui"

I am now like you, egueule, I guess my brains refuse to believe my ears!


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## Manorrd

timpeac said:


> The next time you hear someone do it - and if you don't think they'll take it badly - ask innocently if that is correct since you're confused as to which is best (playing innocent so as not to sound like your criticising just asking a question as a foreigner). And let us know the answer!!


A perfect plan!  My 40 percent fluency is the perfect tool for "innocent" queries such as this.

If this comes up, I'll be sure to let you know.  

In the meantime, it's "je lui ai dit"

By the way, Reverso on-line editor translates both as "I said to him"


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## Cath.S.

Manorrd said:


> Now THAT could very well be...


"Je lui dis" could also sound like "jui dis".


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## timpeac

Jalc said:


> I tried "J'ai lui", and have gone through a few pages of the 16.000 cases. I have not found a single one which is grammatically correct.
> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q="J'ai+lui"
> 
> I am now like you, egueule, I guess my brains refuse to believe my ears!


Jalc - please nuance your comments about "grammatically correct". I don't think there's a person alive who would recommend "j'ai lui" as standard grammar but it is also interesting to know what is said as well as what should be said. For example, Egueule has clearly stated that she considers it not only wrong in the "shouldn't be said" but wrong in the "I'm surprised that anyone has ever said it sense" just as you would be if you heard "tu parleriez".


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## Manorrd

...not to beat a dead horse (fr. equiv.?), but it's very interesting how so many of the examples on Google that use "J'ai lui dit" are mixed in with otherwise perfectly constructed (gramatically speaking) sentences.

There was even a song I found, where, in the chorus, each line begins with "J'ai lui dit..." (but I certainly know enough French to know not to post the things that were being said in each line of the song).   

A song isn't a typo.  It's something that has been thought out and re-thought from start to finish.


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## Fred_C

Hi. 
Are you sure you can tell the difference just by listening between "je" and "j'ai"?
People can pronounce quickly "lui ai" in a single syllable like "luai" Are you sure you could tell the difference just by listening between "luai" and "lui"?
If the answer is no to both questions, then, you might hear "j'ai lui dit" when people say "je luai dit". But they definitely say "Je lui ai dit".
C'est juste une hypothèse.


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## Fairyrose

*There is absolutely no question about "je lui ai dit" being the right version, no matter how many mistakes you might have seen on the web. I agree also agree with Fred C's suggestion. *


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## KaRiNe_Fr

I can hear from time to time in the south of France (on market places for instance) "Jé lui dis" (for "Je lui dis", but heard "J'ai lui dit") from first emigrants from Maghreb. Their mother tongue is not French as they learnt French as a second language. Maybe it's what you heard?


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## Cath.S.

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> I can hear from time to time in the south of France (on market places for instance) "Jé lui dis" (for "Je lui dis", but heard "J'ai lui dit") from first emigrants from Maghreb. Their mother tongue is not French as they learnt French as a second language. Maybe it's what you heard?


Je ne voudrais pas m'avancer, cependant il me semble que les médecins maghrébins qui jouent au golf sur a Côte d'Azur sont relativement rares.


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## Keigan

"J'ai lui dit" is simply "je lui dis". It was misunderstood.

*Kelly is right. I'm pretty sure that's the case.


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## paperclip013

Salut a tous,

I would like to remind you of the following rule of French grammar:
"me/te/se avant le/la/les avant lui/leur avant y avant en avant verb."

Thus we end up with the following word order: "Je lui ai dit." To confirm, let us analyze the sentence structure:
Subject (je, personal pronoun) - indirect object pronoun (lui) - auxiliary verb (avoir, present tense) - past participle of the meaning verb (dire -> dit.)

Best,
Paperclip013


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## KaRiNe_Fr

egueule said:


> Je ne voudrais pas m'avancer, cependant il me semble que les médecins maghrébins qui jouent au golf sur a Côte d'Azur sont relativement rares.


Oops ! La balle de golf était trop petite, je ne l'ai pas vue ! 
Mais il ne faut pas avoir des idées préconçues comme ça : je suis sûre qu'il y en a plus que tu ne crois...


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## PERSEE

Fairyrose said:


> *There is absolutely no question about "je lui ai dit" being the right version, no matter how many mistakes you might have seen on the web. I agree also agree with Fred C's suggestion. *




Yes, no question whatsoever. "J'ai lui dit" is just not correct [pas français]. It might be added that the very correct form, that is the written one, would be: "Je le lui ai dit". Unless you say : "Je lui ai dit que..." or "Je lui ai dit de..."

Note that the fast, colloquial [populaire], pronounciation for "Je le lui ai dit" could be [and indeed is, at least in Paris]: "J'y ai dit".


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## PERSEE

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> I can hear from time to time in the south of France (on market places for instance) "Jé lui dis" (for "Je lui dis", but heard "J'ai lui dit") from first emigrants from Maghreb. Their mother tongue is not French as they learnt French as a second language. Maybe it's what you heard?




I guess you're quite right, KaRiNe_Fr. I can see no other explanation.


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## gwrthgymdeithasol

Jalc said:


> Amazing, at least 1.000 grammar errors on the web!



That's not amazing...1000 spelling errors on one website is amazing -- but there are plenty of sites like that. (In fact, if you think about it, this is one of them. 1000 grammar mistakes too!)


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## lelepu

I've been taught that the indirect object pronoun, in this case lui, is placed thus:

 Je lui ai dit - I said to him.

 But everyone I listen to says "J'ai lui dit."

 I'm confused.

 Any pointers?


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## tilt

_J'ai lui dit_ is incorrect, definitely.
Don't you think you rather hear people saying _Je lui dit _(not the same tense) ?


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