# Navigare necesse est



## Ilmo

*Navigare necesse est* is a old phrase in latin, I guess it is known in most languages, but what I am seeking is a similar saying "*All but sailing is vain*" (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano).
It is the name - and refrain -  of a song that I like very much. Is there something corresponding in other languages?


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## Outsider

Not that I know, but I can give you a free translation of the phrase into Portuguese:

*O que é preciso é navegar.*


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## Thomas1

Ilmo said:


> *Navigare necesse est* is a old phrase in latin, I guess it is known in most languages, but what I am seeking is a similar saying "*All but sailing is vain*" (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano).
> It is the name - and refrain - of a song that I like very much. Is there something corresponding in other languages?


I've never heard of it. Translating it literary I'd go for: _Żeglowanie konieczne jest_. 

I did a quick research and here is what I found:
_Żeglowanie jest rzeczą konieczną,_

I also found the translation of the second part of this phrase, so the whole reads:

_navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse --- __żeglowanie jest rzeczą konieczną, życie - niekonieczną_

Someone who uttered the saying in question has to be a real marine aficionado. 

Tom


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## jazyk

> "*All but sailing is vain*" (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano).


Although it's not a literal translation, I remembered _Navegar é preciso, viver não é preciso_ in Portuguese. Here there's a play on words with the two meanings of preciso = necessary and precise.


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## Joca

Ilmo said:


> *Navigare necesse est* is a old phrase in latin, I guess it is known in most languages, but what I am seeking is a similar saying "*All but sailing is vain*" (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano).
> It is the name - and refrain - of a song that I like very much. Is there something corresponding in other languages?


 
I wish I could help you. Is the song sung in Spanish? Well, the Spaniards were also great navigators, although I think the Portuguese and Italians come first. Anyway, the phrase reminded me of Ecclesiastes, a Book of the Old Testament. It says at the beginning: "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."

Could this be the very first source of your phrase?

JC


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## Ilmo

Joca said:


> I wish I could help you. Is the song sung in Spanish? Well, the Spaniards were also great navigators, although I think the Portuguese and Italians come first. Anyway, the phrase reminded me of Ecclesiastes, a Book of the Old Testament. It says at the beginning: "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."
> 
> Could this be the very first source of your phrase?
> 
> JC


 
No, Joca, it is not from the Bible but rather a latin phrase that I mentioned. If I remember right my history books, it was a Roman senator who said it for the first time, the whole aphorism being _navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse, _just like Thomas 1 said. The meaning of the phrase is, that "sailing", that is, the merchant ships, is more important than the lives that the seamen lose in the shipwrecks.
The saying I mentioned is just the title and the refrain of a popular Finnish "sailor's song", with a rather melancholic tone. I would like to have the saying *stylized* in a few, mostly European languages, in order to be able to use it as my motto. I'm not completely satisfied with my own tries. I suppose that the natives should be capable to stylize it much better.
Thanks, anyway, to everybody who have tried to help me. But I'm still waiting for the winner...


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## judkinsc

The English translation of the Latin is "It is necessary to sail, it is not necessary to live," if it helps.


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## Ilmo

judkinsc said:


> The English translation of the Latin is "It is necessary to sail, it is not necessary to live," if it helps.


 
No, judkinsc, I'm sorry, it doesn't help, because it was not what I asked.
Am I so bad in in explaining things to my neighbours or does it only depend on the fact that people usually don't read the question, they just suppose there is a question they know the answer to.
I wrote: "...but what I am seeking is a similar saying '*All but sailing is vain'* (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano)."
Doesnt it make clear, that I am not seeking the translation of the Latin phrase that I have in the title of the thread but instead suggestions to *stylize* the phrase *that I have already translated into English*. I just is looking for a better, more "hitting" slogan, that only a native can create.
But thanks to you, anyway, for your interest.


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## jazyk

> If I remember right my history books, it was a Roman senator who said it for the first time, the whole aphorism being _navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse, _just like Thomas 1 said.





> Although it's not a literal translation, I remembered _Navegar é preciso, viver não é preciso_ in Portuguese.


You see? I'm so smart.


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## Ilmo

jazyk said:


> You see? I'm so smart.


 
Yes, you are smart, but you didn't answer the question, that was:

*All but sailing is vain*

And I would be glad even if you could say it in English in a smarter, a more compact or a more "hitting" way. But, of course, also a translation into Portuguese will do, if it is the translation of the expression that was asked.


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## Outsider

Ilmo said:


> Yes, you are smart, but you didn't answer the question, that was:
> 
> *All but sailing is vain*


Didn't he?


jazyk said:


> Although it's not a literal translation, I remembered _Navegar é preciso, viver não é preciso_ in Portuguese. Here there's a play on words with the two meanings of preciso = necessary and precise.


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## Ilmo

Outsider said:


> Didn't he?


 
No, he did not!

vain means "futile" or "without meaning"
while
"preciso" in Portuguese means "necessary"
or exactly the contrary!

Correspondingly
"All but sailing" is not the same thing as "navegar" en Portuguese but just the contrary.

What I'm seeking for is a (pleasure) sailor's sigh when he is sitting in his yacht and thinking that his vacation is again nearing its unasssailable end.

But in any case I'm glad that the old and smart Latin saying will become better known at least among the WR forer@s.


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## Outsider

Ilmo said:


> No, he did not!
> 
> vain means "futile" or "without meaning"
> while
> "preciso" in Portuguese means "necessary"
> or exactly the contrary!
> 
> Correspondingly
> "All but sailing" is not the same thing as "navegar" en Portuguese but just the contrary.


It's not "just the contrary" in context. Your poor knowledge of Portuguese is showing, sorry. The translation Jazyk wrote is fair. It's not literal, true, but if you wanted a literal translation you should have said so.


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## Joca

Well, would it help you to learn how to say "All but sailing is vain" in Latin?

I think (but I may be wrong) you'd say it like this: "Omnia vanitas, praeter navigare."

In Portuguese: "Tudo é vão, exceto navegar".

JC


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## ana lacerda

Outsider said:


> Not that I know, but I can give you a free translation of the phrase into Portuguese:
> 
> *O que é preciso é navegar.*


 
Creio que ficava melhor: Navegar é preciso.


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## Outsider

ana lacerda said:


> Creio que ficava melhor: Navegar é preciso.


Isso corresponde a _Navigare necesse est_, que não é o que o Ilmo quer.


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## Ilmo

Joca said:


> Well, would it help you to learn how to say "All but sailing is vain" in Latin?
> 
> I think (but I may be wrong) you'd say it like this: "Omnia vanitas, praeter navigare."
> 
> In Portuguese: "Tudo é vão, exceto navegar".
> 
> JC


 
Thanks, *Joca*, you saw the right nail to hit on the head!
"Tudo é vão, exceto navegar" is the first sentence I can at least write in Portuguese - I don't know how I could manage the pronouncing.
Perhaps I like still more your translation into Latin, because Latin was the really international language of the past times.

By the way, *Outsider*, there is no "my poor knowledge of Portuguese" when there is none! Or at least there was none, before I learned to write "Tudo é vão..." 

Also thanks to everybody who has tried "to solve my problem". Still missing tries for instance in German and French!


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## Joca

Hi Ilmo

If you're still interested in pronouncing your very first sentence in Portuguese, here's a tentative approach to it. Do you mind my using English rather than the International Phonetic Alphabet to represent the Portuguese sounds? Stressed parts are underlined, ok? And vowels are pure, ok?

"Tudo é vão, exceto navegar."

Too-do(e) ay van-oe, ay-say-toe nah-vay-gahr

Hope this helps you.

JC


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## Outsider

Or better yet, you can use a Finnish-based transcription. It can't be worse than an English-based one. 

Tudu e vau, isetu navegar


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## jazyk

For me it's _esetu_.


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## Outsider

Yes, the pronunciation of that "e" varies a little with speaker.


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## Joca

Outsider said:


> Or better yet, you can use a Finnish-based transcription. It can't be worse than an English-based one.
> 
> Tudu e vau, isetu navegar



Thank you, Outsider. I knew my English-based transcrption was quite lame, to say the least. But I was trying to do my best, you know. Well, I can see that you are an INSIDER as far as the Finnish language is concerned. 

As for me, I have never picked up Finnish at school. Unfortunately.

Cheers,

JC


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## Outsider

Joca said:


> Well, I can see that you are an INSIDER as far as the Finnish language is concerned.


Not really, but I do know it has a more sane spelling than English.


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## fumoto

Ilmo said:


> *Navigare necesse est* is a old phrase in latin, I guess it is known in most languages, but what I am seeking is a similar saying "*All but sailing is vain*" (Todo salvo navegar a vela es vano).
> It is the name - and refrain - of a song that I like very much. Is there something corresponding in other languages?


as a matter of fact I was intending to get a confirmation about the author. I had in mind Cristobal Colon (Christoforo Colombo??). Maybe some bazilian friend could ask the question to Caetano Veloso who wrote this marvellous song "Navegar e preciso..."


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## Outsider

J'ai trouvé ceci:



> *Navigare necesse; vivere non necesse.* [Plutarco, Vida de Pompeu 50.2 / Rezende 3765]. Navegar é preciso; viver não é preciso.


Si cette page est correcte, il s'agir d'une citation de l'œuvre de Plutarche, _Vie de Pompée_.

Cependant, je trouve bien probable que l'inspiration immédiate de Caetano ait été le poème de Fernando Pessoa avec la même phrase.


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## fumoto

Extraordinaire - une réponse documentée en moins de 2 heures... Merci pour l'information. Il faudra néanmoins penser à faire corriger la citation gravée au pied de  je ne sais plus trop quelle statue de Colomb (à Gênes, à Barcelone?) où la phrase lui est attribuée semble-t-il.


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## Nizo

*Esperanto*:

Vanas ĉio krom navigi.

or

Navigi necesas.


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