# électron libre



## gnoel

Salut les franglophiles, petite question pour vous:

comment traduiriez-vous "(jouer l') électron libre" en parlant d'une personne qui prend des décisions ou entreprend des actions de sa propre initiative sans toujours prendre la peine d'obtenir l'aval de ses collègues ou supérieurs?  Tout cela sans aller aussi loin que "beyond control element", par exemple.

Merci!


----------



## Nunty

I've heard "loose cannon" used in that sense. 

In a business context, for example:
_We need to send someone to the Northern District before our rep there does something we'll regret. He's a real loose cannon._


----------



## viera

I think I've also heard "free electron" used figuratively with the same meaning.


----------



## gnoel

Tiens, amusant, j'ai trouvé la traduction inverse dans le forum:
loose cannon

bien vu les gars!


----------



## sirius1245720

loose canon, ça n'a pas une connotation négative ?


----------



## gnoel

voui, ça c'est sûr.
Voici ce qu'en dit Wikipedia:
_"The expression "*loose cannon*" or "*loose cannon on deck*" refers to an irresponsible and reckless individual whose behaviour (either intended or unintended) endangers the group he or she belongs to."_

pour la suite de la définition et la petite histoire, référez-vous à http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_cannon


----------



## Nunty

sirius1245720 said:


> loose canon, ça n'a pas une connotation négative ?


Oui, certainement. Si on voudrait une connotation plutôt positive, il y a peut-être "free spirit".

"Électron libre" c'est positif?


----------



## LeGuch

Free spirit does not mean the same thing as loose cannon, IMHO. It's not even close. In fact, in a business context "free spirit" can actually have a negative connotation all on its own, since it can imply a lack of initiative and/or focus.

The truth is that _loose cannon_ can have positive or negative connotations depending whether you agree with the philosophy or not. If you're someone who believes in following the rules, following the chain of command, then you might say "he's a real loose cannon, and he's going to ruin the company someday"

On the other hand, if you admire these qualities, then you might say "Wow, he's a bit of a loose cannon, and the company needs someone like him who can take initiative and cut through all the bureaucracy!"


----------



## LeGuch

A common context outside of business is in the military (esp. in movies) where an officer says to a subordinate:

"You're a loose cannon, and someday you're going to get us all killed"

Of course, in the movies the subordinate sticks to his philosophy and ends up saving the world/galaxy/universe, but that's in the movies.


----------



## goodkarma

.... used to describe a person who is a free spirit (as in a certain lady called Cécilia) - I know there's a more apt expression than "free spirit"


----------



## ufoseeker

A black sheep?


----------



## goodkarma

Just had some inspiration : a wild card ? but i know there's a better expression...


----------



## david314

There is another thread which offers the term: *a loose cannon* (_on deck_). I would like to add: *a live wire *


[…]


----------



## jlan

I feel like I have to bring this thread back to life because no satisfactory translation has in my opinion be offered.

As was said in another thread,_ électron libre _is not necessarily negatively correlated. It could be translated as free spirit. Live wire seems to me unsatisfactory because the sense of independence is not included. But free spirit is connected to the world of thinking. An _électron libre_ could be simply a person who does their own thing, not necessarily a free thinker. The meaning contained, for me, is an individual who does their thing disregarding established social codes and etiquette,who in a way lives outside society, yet in it (so not an outcast).

This site http://www.ressuage-magnetoscopie-p...fevrier-2010-nous-sommes-des-electrons-libres suggests maverick, which seems to me better than the other terms suggested (see definition http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/maverick), but I'm still left wanting...


----------



## GauchoBritanico

I'm just wondering, depending on context, what about "*independent operator*" or "*lone agent*"?


----------



## wildan1

jlan said:


> _électron libre_ is not necessarily negatively correlated. It could be translated as _free spirit_. _Live wire_ seems to me unsatisfactory because the sense of independence is not included. But _free spirit_ is connected to the world of thinking. An é_lectron libre_ could be simply a person who does their own thing, not necessarily a free thinker.


In this case you could also say: _He marches to his own beat._


----------



## Martyn94

wildan1 said:


> In this case you could also say: _He marches to his own beat._


At the risk of seeming facetious, "électron libre" translates quite well as "free electron". I am surprised that the original author though that "electron libre" was sufficiently familiar to make a good metaphor, but he evidently did think so, and you could consider taking the same risk in English. If you do not, you risk losing part of the metaphor: the point about free electrons is not just that they are free, but that their freedom gives them the power to provoke reactions (quite literally so in a chemical context) that ordinary electrons cannot.


----------



## franc 91

a loner, an outsider ?


----------



## jlan

Martyn94 said:


> I am surprised that the original author though that "electron libre" was sufficiently familiar to make a good metaphor, but he evidently did think so, and you could consider taking the same risk in English.




_électron libre_ is in fact an established metaphor in French, with the various meanings pointed out above, hence the purpose of this thread. To my knowledge it is not an established metaphor in English. It always may become one of course, but that's another question... In the other thread on this  at http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=218531 *viera *says s/he's heard this being used in English in that sense. Are you corroborating this?



GauchoBritanico said:


> I'm just wondering, depending on context, what about "*independent operator*" or "*lone agent*"?



These may work well in some contexts, though not in all (I'm thinking in particular of romantic relationships, in the context of which the term is sometimes used in French, though this might not be very established either).


----------



## Martyn94

jlan said:


> _électron libre_ is in fact an established metaphor in French, with the various meanings pointed out above, hence the purpose of this thread. To my knowledge it is not an established metaphor in English. It always may become one of course, but that's another question... In the other thread on this  at http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=218531 *viera *says s/he's heard this being used in English in that sense. Are you corroborating this?.




Not at all. It was new to me in French, which is saying nothing at all. Metaphors only become established, I suppose, because people have used them when they weren't. But I can see why you might not want to be a pioneer in English.


----------



## Marie So

Would "a fringe element" work, or is it too derogatory?


----------



## Enquiring Mind

What do you think about "free radical"?  I think it might fit the bill - in the technical sense, an atom capable of existing independently, and in the non-technical sense, someone who does their own thing, and may well be radical.


----------



## Uncle Bob

Enquiring Mind said:


> What do you think about "free radical"?  I think it might fit the bill - in the technical sense, an atom capable of existing independently, and in the non-technical sense, someone who does their own thing, and may well be radical.


Umm...but wouldn't that automatically be taken to mean the person was left-wing, even if it doesn't necessarily mean that?


----------



## Enquiring Mind

That's true - that risk is there if there's some sort of political context.  Unfortunately the thread suffers from the all-too-often problem of no context .  But we can also talk about a radical solution, a radical construction method, and also (out of a political context) a radical thinker, an original thinker or solution, which don't necessarily have political nuances.

In fact I like maverick, but the vision of the OP's Cecilia with a stetson and six-shooter, chewing gum ....- it doesn't do it for me.


----------



## Kelly B

I'm having trouble with this one, too. My context is very similar to Gnoel's, a company employee who functions with relative independence. As an employee he's not a free agent; free spirit is a little artsy for the context; loose cannon and wild card are too negative. Independent is on the right track, but I'm having trouble thinking of a noun to go with it. I'm thinking about rephrasing to I work autonomously/independently, even if it isn't in the same register...?


----------



## Quaeitur

I like one of the suggestions above for your context : independent operator


----------



## Kelly B

Thanks!


----------



## Pudels Kern

I am bringing this thread back to life once again (as jian said in 2011) because I find jian's suggestion of "maverick" very useful in a text I'm working on, and I'd like to thank him/her for it!


----------



## jlan

much appreciated, and you're welcome!


----------



## emmsy

I'm bringing this very informative thread back again, this time in relation to a young child,  who has been described by his teacher as an électron libre.  Would this mean he is a loner,  a lively, high spirited child, or just that he likes to do his own thing?


----------



## avocet

sirius1245720 said:


> loose canon, ça n'a pas une connotation négative ?


Yes, it's negative.


----------



## Chimel

emmsy said:


> or just that he likes to do his own thing?


 
Without any more context, it is probably this meaning.


----------



## emmsy

Thank you @Chimel .Its in the classe maternelle, so a very young child who also has a tendency to be a bit mischievous.


----------



## franc 91

There's a fairly general term used in UK educational circles - a challenging child, but of course there other terms such as- difficult, headstrong, awkward etc - but obviously it would depend on the context and who is describing the child in question.


----------



## Chimel

franc 91 said:


> There's a fairly general term used in UK educational circles - a challenging child, but of course there other terms such as- difficult, headstrong, awkward etc -


_Electron libre_ has a more positive undertone: there is an idea of independency, of not being bound by usual rules, but without being difficult or awkward.


----------



## Verliss

I came across _électron libre _in the context of a superior officer commending a junior but adding _"Vous ne vous êtes jamais opposé à votre commandement, bien que vous ayez subtilement contourné ses ordres. *D'une certain manière,* *vous êtes un électron libre*."  _I immediately got the gist of it, but was interested in just how that would be translated in English, and thus I came upon this thread.  I agree with those upthread who say there's no completely satisfactory equivalent.

"Maverick" is by far the best offering in this thread.  If someone translated the bolded section of the quoted passage in my post as "We might say, you're something of a maverick," I think that would be very close.

"Marches to his own beat" is solid too.

I would also suggest "Plays by his own rules." 

Definitely not "loose cannon."  A maverick might make you nervous, but you could generally trust him to get the job done; a loose cannon would keep you worried the entire time - you're _expecting_ him to mess up.


----------



## franc 91

You manage to play it your own way/you always seem to find your own way of doing things (suggestions)


----------

