# Pronunciation: 亮闪闪



## yuechu

大家好！

How would you pronounce 亮闪闪 in Chinese? Would it be liàngshǎnshǎn, liàngshǎnshan or liàngshānshān?
Thanks!


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## RayXUUUU

The first one would be correct.
When an adjective has "ABB" structure, and the "BB" is a further modification of the "A" (in 亮闪闪，"闪闪" modifies "亮", It's *sparkling, shining，*rather than just giving out light), we usually pronounce the latter two characters as they originally are.


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## yuechu

OK! Thanks, RayXu!

EDIT: Oh, maybe I'm just thinking of 好好, whose second character can change to the first tone.


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## SuperXW

RayXUUUU said:


> When an adjective has "ABB" structure, and the "BB" is a further modification of the "A", we usually pronounce the latter two characters as they originally are.




I think it applies to almost all ABB adjectives:
红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠 ...

Compare:
ABB - verb-object
洗手手 挠痒痒 打屁屁 睡觉觉
These are usually childish talk, and the last character usually turns into neutral tone.

ABB - adjective+noun
There is no universal rule.
Some, for example,
肉虫虫 乖宝宝 小兔兔 笨狗狗
the last character usually turns into neutral tone, however, some people still prefer their original tones.
Taiwanese may turn to use original tones as far as I know.
Some are almost never use neutral tone:
猫猫 鱼鱼 猪猪


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## ovaltine888

SuperXW said:


> I think it applies to almost all ABB adjectives:
> 红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠 ...
> 
> Compare:
> ABB - verb-object
> 洗手手 挠痒痒 打屁屁 睡觉觉
> These are usually childish talk, and the last character usually turns into neutral tone.
> 
> ABB - adjective+noun
> There is no universal rule.
> Some, for example,
> 肉虫虫 乖宝宝 小兔兔 笨狗狗
> the last character usually turns into neutral tone, however, some people still prefer their original tones.
> Taiwanese may turn to use original tones as far as I know.
> Some are almost never use neutral tone:
> 猫猫 鱼鱼 猪猪


The pronunciation of 叠词 is extremely tricky because it usually reflects an affectionate or childish way of speaking.

So in many cases, you have to sound very 嗲 to convey the affection.

江户川柯南's voice suddenly resonates in my ear...




“新一*哥哥*怎么还没有到呢？真是奇怪哎。”
The voice of Taiwan version will sound ge3ge2 (戈隔）while the Mainland version will go as ge1ge.

This characteristic is noticeable not least in 台配动画 as you can tell it immediately.

It can also apply to some ABB forms, for example,
怪叔叔——>怪蜀黍(guai4shu3shu2)

肉虫虫(rou4chong3chong2)


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## RayXUUUU

yuechu said:


> OK! Thanks, RayXu!
> 
> EDIT: Oh, maybe I'm just thinking of 好好, whose second character can change to the first tone.


Yeah, that makes sense. But it's not in an ABB adjective. "好好" here is more like an *adverb* (sometimes adjective), and in this occasion, we usually change the second "好" to the first tone, eg. "好好做"(do it *carefully*), "你要好好的(adj)" (you take care).
Another example: 慢(4)慢(1)跑（run *slowly*).

If "好好" is used in "好好看", and it means "好"(very) + "好看"(good-looking), we obviously pronounce both "好" as the third tone.
If "好好看" is meant to express "好好" (carefully) + "看"(watch), perhaps in an imperative sentence, then you should change the second "好" to the first tone.


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## RayXUUUU

ovaltine888 said:


> The pronunciation of 叠词 is extremely tricky because it usually reflects an affectionate or childish way of speaking.


Most of them do. But I think ABB adjectives, like SuperXW said
红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠
are not childish at all. They are sometimes used in contemporary literature.


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## Messquito

SuperXW said:


> I think it applies to almost all ABB adjectives:
> 红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠 ...
> 
> Compare:
> ABB - verb-object
> 洗手手 挠痒痒 打屁屁 睡觉觉
> These are usually childish talk, and the last character usually turns into neutral tone.
> 
> ABB - adjective+noun
> There is no universal rule.
> Some, for example,
> 肉虫虫 乖宝宝 小兔兔 笨狗狗
> the last character usually turns into neutral tone, however, some people still prefer their original tones.
> Taiwanese may turn to use original tones as far as I know.
> Some are almost never use neutral tone:
> 猫猫 鱼鱼 猪猪


Nice observations!
I'm here to add my Taiwanese two cents. As a Taiwanese, this is how I would pronounce them: (The neutral tone is virtually non-existent in our variant.)
(original → actual tones in Taiwan)

红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠 - All in their original tones. No complications.

ABB - verb-object
洗手手 333 → 231 or 232 (btw, the first 2 is because of the 33 → 23 rule, for those who don’t know)
We have a popular meme-ish phrase 嚇到吃手手 where the 手手 part could be 31 or 32. (Illustrated below.)

挠痒痒 133 → 131
打屁屁 344 → 344
睡觉觉 444 → 444 (possibly 432, influenced by the below)
We more often say 睡搞搞(433→432).

ABB - adjective+noun
肉虫虫 422 → 432 (虫虫 22 → 32)
乖宝宝 133 → 132 or 131 (宝宝 33 → 32 or 31)
小兔兔 344 → 344
笨狗狗 433 → 432 or 431 (狗狗 33 → 32 or 31)



Btw, reminder for anyone for whom the 33 → 23 isn’t a reflex yet:
liàngshánshǎn should be the actual pronunciation because of the rule “when two third tones come together the first one become the second tone”.


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## yuechu

Thank you all for your replies!



SuperXW said:


> I think it applies to almost all ABB adjectives:
> 红彤彤 白花花 金灿灿 明晃晃 亮堂堂 恶狠狠 ...


The dictionary I use says that 红彤彤 is pronounced hóngtōngtōng. Are both hóngtōngtōng and hóngtóngtóng common pronunciations here?


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## SuperXW

yuechu said:


> The dictionary I use says that 红彤彤 is pronounced hóngtōngtōng. Are both hóngtōngtōng and hóngtóngtóng common pronunciations here?


You are digging into more and more disputable details.
I would say tong1tong1 and tong2tong2 are both ok (the word can be written as 红通通) but hard to say which one is "correct".
Some resources do show that some (or most) B in ABB should be changed into the 1st tone, but most people don't even know about "the rule".
The topic can be extremely complicated and many natives have researched it already.
You can take a look at the following articles if you are interested.
ABB式叠词的发音 叠词变调原则 普通话的音变
The following paragraphs show how confusing it is:


> ……（3）应该音变的非阴平调“灰蒙蒙”、“懒洋洋”、“绿油油”、“软绵绵”、“湿淋淋”、“黑黝黝”、“明晃晃”、“火辣辣”的呼读正确率分别为4.5%、1.4%、6.5%、0.0%、2.9%、5.4%、1.4%、2.7%，平均为3.1%。
> 当被问及以下问题时，结果更耐人寻味：
> 1、你了解普通话ABB词格的音变规律吗？
> 回答“了解”的为0；回答“感觉到了音变现象存在但不知道为什么”的占26.4%；回答“完全不知道”的占73.6%。
> 2、你认为“灰蒙蒙”、“懒洋洋”、“绿油油”、“软绵绵”、“湿淋淋”、“黑黝黝”、“明晃晃”、“火辣辣”这些词，读本调好听还是按音变读好听？
> 回答“按本调读好听”的占93.7%，回答“按音变读好听”的占2.4%，回答“不知道”的占3.9%。
> 3、如果读“灰蒙蒙”、“懒洋洋”、“绿油油”、“软绵绵”、“湿淋淋”、“黑黝黝”、“明晃晃”、“火辣辣”这些词，你更愿意读本调还是更愿意按音变读？
> 回答“愿意按本调读”的占96.2%，回答“愿意按音变读”的占2%，回答“不知道”的占1.8%。
> 由此引发的问题是：普通话中ABB词格的非阴平叠词真的需要音变吗？能不能对原有的读音规则进行改革？笔者认为，应该取消原来的音变规则，重新确定正音规范。理由如下：……





> ……关于ABB式重叠形容词的音变规律，语言学界争议颇多。大多辞书、教材等都这样描述：“ABB式重叠形容词，一般BB读阴平。”那究竟这个“一般”该如何把握呢？什么情况下要“特殊”呢？
> 
> 语言学家徐世荣先生在谈到ABB式重叠形容词的读法时说：“除叠字本身为阴平调即不再变外，其余各调的都可把后面两个字变为阴平调……如果念得缓慢些，念清楚它的原调，显得读字清楚，不变也可以。”（《普通话语音知识》）北京出版社编写出版的《普通话语音常识》一书中也有类似的说法。这种两可的说法似乎也让人们难以把握。教育部语言文字应用管理司的魏丹老师著文说，小学语文课文中的叠字形容词没有必要读变调，而人教社编写的小学语文课本中的叠字形容词一般都按《现代汉语词典》的注意读作变调，但也有与《现代汉语词典》处理不一致的地方。作为普通话水平测试的蓝本——《普通话水平测试大纲》，在处理这个问题上与《现代汉语词典》的标注也有一些出入。
> 
> 那我们究竟该如何把握ABB式叠字形容词的读音呢？……


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## yuechu

Oh, I didn't realize how complicated it was! Thanks, SuperXW!


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## AquisM

SuperXW said:


> *应该音变*的非阴平调“灰蒙蒙”、“懒洋洋”、“绿油油”、“软绵绵”、“湿淋淋”、“黑黝黝”、“明晃晃”、“火辣辣”


Wait, so these 叠词 are officially supposed to be pronounced with the first tone? Now I'm curious. Mandarin natives, do you actually pronounce them this way? I personally say 黑忧忧 and find 绿忧忧 OK, but 火啦啦 just sounds weird.


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## RayXUUUU

AquisM said:


> Wait, so these 叠词 are officially supposed to be pronounced with the first tone? Now I'm curious. Mandarin natives, do you actually pronounce them this way? I personally say 黑忧忧 and find 绿忧忧 OK, but 火啦啦 just sounds weird.


大多数情况下，并不会，火辣辣就是huo3la4la4，其他大部分ABB词也是读原本的音，不会变。红彤彤，绿油油等少数词我们也习惯音变，但是只是少数而已，也许音变是对的，但是确实不会这样说，默认的用法久了自然变成标准。


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## AquisM

RayXUUUU said:


> 大多数情况下，并不会，火辣辣就是huo3la4la4，其他大部分ABB词也是读原本的音，不会变。红彤彤，绿油油等少数词我们也习惯音变，但是只是少数而已，也许音变是对的，但是确实不会这样说，默认的用法久了自然变成标准。


感谢回答。因为字典一般只记载官方规范读音，让我们非母语者很困惑，有时候不知道民间普遍的念法不一样，说话时显得很不自然。就像楼主之前有另一个帖子，问到“噱头”的发音，我才知道原来“噱”一般念xue1，而不是规范的xue2。


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## SuperXW

所有调研都表明，其实并没有人说huo3la1la1...不知道为什么有那样的定义……


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