# Urdu/Hindi: depend kartaa hai



## Abu Talha

Hello.

If you want to say, "That depends on ..." in Urdu, what is (or was) the way native speakers would express this meaning without resorting to "depend karnaa"? The only way I can think of is to reconstruct the sentence using _agar ... to_ in a condition but it seems very roundabout and repetitive.

Here are some examples of _depend karta hai_, taken from the internet:

1. Ye to tumhare husband pe depend karta hai ke wo karne daiga ya nahi
2. ab hum pe depend karta hai ke hum sidha rasta apnate hain ya ghalat
3. is se humaiN ye 3ilm hota hai ke, jo kuch bhi ham is dunyaa meN karte hain hamaarii niyyat par depend karta hai
4. Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain. (This one came up when I was searching this forum.)

You can use other examples too, if they are more clear. 
I guess the argument can be made that "depend karna" is now as Urdu or Hindi as isti3maal karnaa (or use karnaa!), but I'm just curious to know how speakers conveyed this sort of meaning, in regular daily speech, before "depend" was borrowed from English.
Thanks.


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## Alfaaz

You could probably use inhisaar and/or munhasir. انحصار منحصر 

In one of your examples: "ab hum pe depend karta _(munhasir)_ hai ke hum sidha rasta apnate hain ya ghalat"


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## Qureshpor

As Alfaaz has indicated, "inHisaar" (dependence) and "munHasir" (dependent upon) are the usual words for this kind of thing. Of course someone speaking zabaan-i-Urdu-i-mu3allaa would not dream of using "depend karnaa". This is how he or she would express this meaning.

bha'ii kyaa puuchhte ho? kyaa likhuuN? dihlii kii hastii munHasir ka’ii haNgaamoN pih hai; qal3ah, chaaNdnii chauk, har roz majma3 jaami3 masjid kaa, har hafte sair jamnaa ke pul kii, har saal melaa phuul vaaloN kaa. yih paaNchoN baateN ab nahiiN, phir kaho dihlii kahaaN? haaN, ko'ii shahr is naam kaa Hindustaan meN thaa!

(xutuut-i-Ghalib)

munHasir marne pih ho jis kii ummiid 
naa-ummiidii us kii dekhaa chaahiye

(Ghalib)


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## nineth

In Hindi, it's _nirbhar karta hai_.


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## Faylasoof

daee said:


> Hello.
> 
> If you want to say, "That depends on ..." in Urdu, what is (or was) the way native speakers would express this meaning without resorting to "depend karnaa"? The only way I can think of is to reconstruct the sentence using _agar ... to_ in a condition but it seems very roundabout and repetitive.
> 
> Here are some examples of _depend karta hai_, taken from the internet:
> 
> 1. Ye to tumhare husband pe depend karta hai ke wo karne daiga ya nahi
> 2. ab hum pe depend karta hai ke hum sidha rasta apnate hain ya ghalat
> 3. is se humaiN ye 3ilm hota hai ke, jo kuch bhi ham is dunyaa meN karte hain hamaarii niyyat par depend karta hai
> 4. Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain. (This one came up when I was searching this forum.)


 da3ee SaaHib, here is how we would say it, using your above examples:

یہ تو تمہارے شوہر پر منحصر ہے كہ وہ كرنے دیگا یا نہیں
_yeh to tumhaare shauhar par munHaSir hai keh woh karne degaa yaa nahiiN_

اب ہم پر منحصر ہے كہ ہم سیدھا راستہ اپناتے ہیں یا غلط
_ab ham par munHaSir hai keh ham siidhaa raastah apnaate haiN yaa ghalatT_

اس سے ہمیں یہ علم ہوتا ہے كہ جو كچھ بھی ہم اس دنیا میں كرتے ہیں ہماری نیت پر منحصر ہے
_is se hameN yeh 3ilm hotaa hai keh jo kuchh bhii ham as dunyaa meiN karte haiN hamaarii niyyat  par munHaSir hai_

یہ اس پر منحصر نہیں كرتا كہاں سے ہیں، بلكہ اس پر منحصر ہے كہ كتنی  ہندی فلمیں دیكھتے ہیں
_yeh as par munHaSir nahiiN kartaa kahaaN se haiN, balkeh as par munHaSir  hai keh kitnii hindii filmeN dek-hte haiN _


One can also substitute انحصار _inHiSaar_ for منحصر _munHaSir_, e.g.

یہ اس پر منحصر نہیں كرتا كہاں سے ہیں، بلكہ اسكا انحصار اس پر ہے كہ كتنی  ہندی فلمیں دیكھتے ہیں
_yeh as par munHaSir nahiiN kartaa kahaaN se haiN, balkeh iskaa_ /_ uskaa inHiSaar is _/ _us par hai keh kitnii hindii filmeN dek-hte haiN _


اس سے ہمیں یہ علم ہوتا ہے كہ جو كچھ بھی ہم اس دنیا میں كرتے ہیں اسكا انحصار ہماری نیت پر  ہے
_is se hameN yeh 3ilm hotaa hai keh jo kuchh bhii ham as dunyaa meiN karte haiN iskaa / uskaa inHiSaar hamaarii niyyat  par hai_


There may be other ways one may say the same by using words like _wuquuf_, _baa3ith_ etc. depending on the context, to give the same idea as _depend_.  

BTW, we don't consider this very formal, high register Urdu. The above we use in our everyday speech!


daee said:


> You can use other examples too, if they are more clear.
> I guess the argument can be made that "depend karna" is now as Urdu or Hindi as isti3maal karnaa (or use karnaa!), but I'm just curious to know how speakers conveyed this sort of meaning, in regular daily speech, before "depend" was borrowed from English.
> Thanks.


 Use of '_depend karnaa_' is not at all standard Urdu! The words منحصر _munHaSir_ and انحصار _inHiSaar_ have been used in Urdu since the18th century!  

Here is an example of منحصر from an Urdu classic:

ایسے عالی حوصلہ شہنشاہ كے لیے یہ حرکتیں علما کی ایسی نہ تھیں جن پر وہ اس قدر بیزار ہو جاتا ۔ اصل معاملہ ایک تفصیل پر *منحصر* ہے جسے میں مختصر بیان کرتا ہوں۔ وہ یہ ہے کہ جب سلطنت کا پھیلاؤ ایک طرف افغانستان سے لے کر گجرات دکن بلکہ سمندر کے کنارے تک پھیلا

دربار ِ اكبری از  شمس العلماء مولانا محمد حسین آزاد


_aise 3aalii HauSalah shahanshaah ke liye yeh HarkateN 3ulamaa kii aisii nah thiiN jin par woh as qadar bezaar ho jaataa. aSl mu3aamalah ek tafSiil par *munHaSir* hai jise meiN muxtaSar bayaan kartaa hoN. woh yeh hai keh jab salTanat kaa phailaa’o ek Taraf afghaanistaan se le kar gujraat dakan / dakkan balkeh samandar ke kanaare tak phailaa…._

_darbaar-e-akbarii az shams-ul-3lamaa maulaanaa* muHammad Husain aazaad_


[* _maulaanaa_ was often used at the time for all those who had mastered Arabic and Persian languages and literature but may not have necessarily gone on to acquire any religious qualification. In this context it does not indicate any expertise in any branch of Islamic knowledge. Muhammad Husain Azad was primarily a scholar of Urdu and Persian who wrote on linguistic and historical topics. His _darbaar-e-akbarii_ (The Court of Akbar) is a highly readable account of Mughal Emperor Akbar's rise to power, life in his vibrant court and other events of the times. Azad is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, Urdu prose wirter to date.]


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## Abu Talha

Thank you everyone for your very helpful replies.


Faylasoof said:


> یہ اس پر منحصر نہیں كرتا كہاں سے ہیں، بلكہ اس پر منحصر ہے كہ كتنی  ہندی فلمیں دیكھتے ہیں
> _yeh as par munHaSir nahiiN kartaa kahaaN se haiN, balkeh as par munHaSir  hai keh kitnii hindii filmeN dek-hte haiN _


Faylasoof Sahib, is munHaSir used both with hai and kartaa? It seems like it is intransitive.

Another question, for everyone, is whether usage of _depend karnaa_ these days is more popular than _munHaSir hona_ in the past? That is, irrespective of whether it is high register or normal speech, would native speakers not use munHaSir as often as _depend karnaa_ is used these days. You know how an imported word sometimes even changes the way speakers construct sentences or whatever is the correct term for the cognitive process behind forming sentences?

Or was it a simple case of substituting "depend" for "munHaSir"?


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## akak

Could some of these sentences be recast with "marzi" -- "Yeh tumhare shauhar ki marzi hai, ki tumhein jane denge ke nahin"?


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## souminwé

daee said:


> Hello.
> 
> If you want to say, "That depends on ..." in Urdu, what is (or was) the way native speakers would express this meaning without resorting to "depend karnaa"? The only way I can think of is to reconstruct the sentence using _agar ... to_ in a condition but it seems very roundabout and repetitive.
> 
> Here are some examples of _depend karta hai_, taken from the internet:
> 
> 1. Ye to tumhare husband pe depend karta hai ke wo karne daiga ya nahi
> 2. ab hum pe depend karta hai ke hum sidha rasta apnate hain ya ghalat
> 3. is se humaiN ye 3ilm hota hai ke, jo kuch bhi ham is dunyaa meN karte hain hamaarii niyyat par depend karta hai
> 4. Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain. (This one came up when I was searching this forum.)
> 
> You can use other examples too, if they are more clear.
> I guess the argument can be made that "depend karna" is now as Urdu or Hindi as isti3maal karnaa (or use karnaa!), but I'm just curious to know how speakers conveyed this sort of meaning, in regular daily speech, before "depend" was borrowed from English.
> Thanks.



Interestingly, *nirbhar* can be used as both _*nirbhar hona*_, corresponding to _mun7as'ir hona_, and _*nirbhar karna*_, corresponding to _in7is'aar hona_. *Nirbhar* is a fairly common word, both in life and on paper.Translating these sentences into typical, daily Hindi using *nirbhar*

_1. Yeh to tumhaare pati par nirbhar hai/karta hai ki voh karne dega ya nahiiN
_यह तुम्हारे पति पर निर्भर है/करता है कि, वह करने देगा या नहीं. 
_2. Ab ham par nirbhar hai/karta hai ki, ham siidha raasta apnaate haiN, ya Galat.
_अब  हम  पर  निर्भर  है /करता  है कि , हम   सीधा  रास्ता  अपनाते  हैं , या  ग़लत ._
3. Isse humeN yeh gyaan hota hai ki, jo kuch bhi ham is duniya meN karte haiN, hamaari niyat par nirbhar hai/karta hai._ 
इससे  हमें  यह  ज्ञान  होता  है  कि , जो  कुछ  भी  हम  इस  दुनिया  में  करते हैं , हमारी  नियत  पर निर्भर है/करता है. 
_4. Yeh is par nirbhar nahin hai/karta hai ki, kahaaN se haiN, balki ispe ki Hindi movies kitni dekhte haiN._
यह इसपर निर्भर नहीं है/करता है कि, कहाँ से हैं, बल्कि इसपे कि हिंदी मूवीज़ कितनी देखते हैं


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## Faylasoof

daee said:


> Thank you everyone for your very helpful replies.
> 
> Faylasoof Sahib, is munHaSir used both with hai and kartaa? It seems like it is intransitive.


 daee SaaHib, 

We can use منحصر _munHaSir_ in many different ways, both transitively and intransitively, as shown below:

We use پر منحصر ہونا _par munHasir honaa_ and پر منحصر كرنا _par munHasir karnaa _all the time. All depends what you are trying to say.

منحصر _munHaSir_ is actually an active participle of the Arabic verb اِنْحصر _inHaSara_ and can be used in Urdu either with _honaa_ or _karnaa_ and for either there are two different usages! 

So we have پر منحصر ہونا _par munHaSir honaa_, پر منحصر كرنا _par munHaSir karnaa,_ میں منحصر ہونا  _meiN munHaSir honaa_ and lastly  میں منحصر كرنا _mein munHaSir karnaa_. The use of the latter two is less common and we generally opt for the word محدود _maHduud_ instead  of منحصر munHaSir. 

پر منحصر ہونا _par munHasir honaa_ = to be dependent on 
كسی چیز \ امر \ معاملے كا كسی اور چیز \ امر \ معاملے  پر منحصر ہونا
_kisii chiiz / amr / mu3aamale kaa kisii aur chiiz / amr / mu3aamale par munHasir honaa _
for a thing / issue / matter to be dependent on another thing / issue / matter.   

پر منحصر كرنا _par munHasir karnaa_ = to make (something) dependent on
كسی چیز \ امر \ معاملے كو كسی اور چیز \ امر \ معاملے  پر منحصر كرنا
_kisii chiiz / amr / mu3aamale ko kisii aur chiiz / amr / mu3aamale par munHasir karnaa _
to make a thing / issue / matter dependent on another thing / issue / matter.   

میں منحصر ہونا _meiN munHaSir honaa_ = to be restricted / confined / encompassed in / within (something) = میں محدود ہونا _meiN maHduud honaa_ 
كسی چیز \ امر \ معاملے كا كسی اور چیز \ امر \ معاملے  میں منحصر ہونا 
_kisii chiiz / amr / mu3aamale kaa kisii aur chiiz / amr / mu3aamale meiN munHasir honaa _
for a thing / issue / matter to be restricted / confined etc. within another thing / issue / matter.   

میں منحصر كرنا _meiN munHasir karnaa_ = to make (something) restricted / bound / confined in / within (something else) = میں محدود كرنا _meiN maHduud karnaa _
كسی چیز \ امر \ معاملے كو كسی اور چیز \ امر \ معاملے  میں منحصر كرنا
_kisii chiiz / amr / mu3aamale ko kisii aur chiiz / amr / mu3aamale meiN munHasir karnaa _
to restrict / confine / encompass etc. a thing / issue / matter within another thing / issue / matter.   

 The latter two usages (with _meiN_) go back to one of the meanings that Platts gives:_
A منحصر munḥaṣir _(act. part. of اِنْحصر 'to be or become restrained,' &c., vii of حصر 'to straiten; to surround,' &c.),_ part. adj. Restrained; restricted; confined; surrounded, encompassed, besieged, beleaguered, hemmed in_;—contained, comprehended;—limited; defined;—dependent, resting (on).

.... and of course we can use انحصار _inHiSaar _in place of منحصر _munHaSir_ with appropriate changes in the manner I show in my previous post above since انحصار _inHiSaar _is a noun:       
A انحصار _inḥiṣār_ [inf. n. vii of حصر 'to surround'], s.m. reliance / dependence


मुन्हसिर होना / क्रना _munhasir honaa / karnaa_ is also seen in some forms of Hindi writings even these days but its use is more restricted. Here is an example:
*मुल्ला नसरुद्दीन की दास्तान- 75*


नसरुद्दीन ने अपना सबसे अधिक कारगर, अंतिम हथियार इस्तेमाल करते हुए कहा, ‘ऐ आका-ए-नामदार, यह तो सितारे सादे (बाहरवें नक्षत्र) पर *मुन्हसिर* हैं।



daee said:


> Another question, for everyone, is whether usage of _depend karnaa_ these days is more popular than _munHaSir hona_  in the past? That is, irrespective of whether it is high register or  normal speech, would native speakers not use munHaSir as often as _depend karnaa_  is used these days. You know how an imported word sometimes even  changes the way speakers construct sentences or whatever is the correct  term for the cognitive process behind forming sentences?
> 
> 
> Or was it a simple case of substituting "depend" for "munHaSir"?


I'll try answering both your questions together. _depend karnaa_ in non-standard Urdu is more popular simply because of poor Urdu vocabulary! There are many reasons for this, including poor Urdu teaching standards, a penchant for use of English terms to impress etc. As I point above, we distinguish between پر *منحصر ہونا* _ par *munHasir honaa*_ and پر *منحصر كرنا* _par *munHasir karnaa* _therefore in this sense the way _depend karnaa_ is used is just wrong!  As you have indicated, this is "a simple case of substituting "depend" for "munHaSir". But what is not realised is that when one reverse substitutes _munHaSir_ for _depend_ and uses it with _karnaa_ to mean an intransitive usage then one is unknowingly using it completely the wrong way!


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## Faylasoof

akak said:


> Could some of these sentences be recast with "marzi" -- "Yeh tumhare shauhar ki marzi hai, ki tumhein jane denge ke nahin"?


 Yes you can put it this way but you can also have: _yeh tumhare shauhar ki marzi/ / marDhii par munHaSir hai keh tumheiN jane denge ke nahiiN_ ! Both are correct, idiomatic sentences and where in the secand we are giving emphasis to the idea of consent  (_marzii / marDhii_). However, as you know _marzii / marDhii_ can't always be substituted for _munHaSir_ to give the idea of dependence. In fact, in most places one can't.


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## Faylasoof

souminwé said:


> Interestingly, *nirbhar* can be used as both _*nirbhar hona*_, corresponding to _mun7as'ir hona_, and _*nirbhar karna*_, corresponding to _in7is'aar hona_. *...*


 Actually, we can use _*munHasir*_ as well with both *honaa* and _*karnaa*_, just like *nirbhar*! The meaning however does change as between any transitive vs. intransitive usage.


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## akak

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that (_marzii / marDhii_) is the way that idea would usually be expressed, if there wasn't the influence of the English phrase "depends on." So much syntax and usage is bending to mirror English.


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## Qureshpor

akak said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that (_marzii / marDhii_) is the way that idea would usually be expressed, if there wasn't the influence of the English phrase "depends on." So much syntax and usage is bending to mirror English.



Please see Posts 3 & 5.


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## greatbear

daee said:


> If you want to say, "That depends on ..." in Urdu, what is (or was) the way native speakers would express this meaning without resorting to "depend karnaa"? The only way I can think of is to reconstruct the sentence using _agar ... to_ in a condition but it seems very roundabout and repetitive.
> 
> Here are some examples of _depend karta hai_, taken from the internet:
> 
> 1. Ye to tumhare husband pe depend karta hai ke wo karne daiga ya nahi
> 2. ab hum pe depend karta hai ke hum sidha rasta apnate hain ya ghalat
> 3. is se humaiN ye 3ilm hota hai ke, jo kuch bhi ham is dunyaa meN karte hain hamaarii niyyat par depend karta hai
> 4. Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain. (This one came up when I was searching this forum.)
> 
> You can use other examples too, if they are more clear.
> I guess the argument can be made that "depend karna" is now as Urdu or Hindi as isti3maal karnaa (or use karnaa!), but I'm just curious to know how speakers conveyed this sort of meaning, in regular daily speech, before "depend" was borrowed from English.
> Thanks.



Both "depend karnaa" and "nirbhar karnaa" (as indicated already by nineth) are quite common in everday spoken Hindi. One another quite common option is to directly use "pe hai"/"par hai", so some of your sentences would be recast as:

1. Ye to tumhare husband _pe hai_ ki wo (tumhe yeh) karne dega yaa nahiN. (or use _par hai_)
2. Ab tum pe hai ki hum seedha raastaa apnaate haiN yaa galat.

For sentences (3) and (4), "pe hai" would be possible but not much elegant: one would have to use "nirbhar"/"depend" here. Or recast the sentence using some other vocabulary (words like farq, etc.).


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## akak

QURESHPOR said:


> Please see Posts 3 & 5.


I did.  I am not saying that "depend on" is alien to Urdu, just that the particular usage "depends on your xx" "XX par munhasir" seems to be a borrowing from English.


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## Faylasoof

akak said:


> I did.  I am not saying that "depend on" is alien to Urdu, just that the particular usage "depends on your xx" "XX par munhasir" seems to be a borrowing from English.


 Not sure what your reasoning is given that the use of munHaSir dates back to the 18th century as I said above:   


Faylasoof said:


> ...
> 
> BTW, we don't consider this very formal, high register Urdu. The above we use in our everyday speech!
> Use of '_depend karnaa_' is not at all standard Urdu! *The words منحصر munHaSir and انحصار inHiSaar have been used in Urdu since the18th century!  *
> .....


 At that time British influence, and hence influence of English on Urdu, was limited unlike later.  It is most likely a borrowing from Persian which also uses منحصر _munHaSir _and with the same meaning I have above  for Urdu, i.e. just as Platts for Urdu has a particular set of meanings of منحصر _munHaSir_, so also Steingass has for منحصر _munHaSir_ in Persian. They are the same!


A منحصر _munḥaṣir,_ Surrounded, besieged, beleagured, blockaded, pressed, hemmed in, confined to, restricted; contained, com- prehended; numbered, limited; defined; dependent, resting on.

... and the same for  انحصار _inHiSaar_. Other Persian lexicons also give the same for both.

BTW, Steingass' lexicon is noted for its comprehensive coverage of older, classical Persian vocabulary. So this usage is very old!

Many Urduphones, esp. non-native speakers, use '_depend karnaa_' but this is not at all standard Urdu! I know it is used a lot but it isn’t standard Urdu! The use of '_depend karnaa_' persists simply because there seems to be an unawareness of the existence of  words like *منحصر *_*munHaSir*_ *and انحصار *_*inHiSaar*_ which are respectively the equivalent of the English words _dependent / depend (on)_ and _ dependence / reliance_ etc. and have been aound for more than 200 years in the Urdu lexicon!


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## BP.

akak said:


> Could some of these sentences be recast with "marzi" -- "Yeh tumhare shauhar ki marzi hai, ki tumhein jane denge ke nahin"?


I would replace _marzii _with _manshaa_. The former means _contentment with_.

In the context of the thread, I'll affirm the answer already given.


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## marrish

I agree with you Faylasoof SaHib, we have these expressions at our command in Urdu since long. It's equally true that depend karnaa is used in a variety of Urdu where they substitute many words we have equivalents for with English ones. I'm curious if nirbhar karnaa in Hindi can be traced down to the period preceeding the English influence?


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## Abu Talha

Thanks everyone for your very informative replies.


Faylasoof said:


> As you have indicated, this is "a simple case of substituting "depend" for "munHaSir". But what is not realised is that when one reverse substitutes _munHaSir_ for _depend_ and uses it with _karnaa_ to mean an intransitive usage then one is unknowingly using it completely the wrong way!


Of course we are only discussing non-standard usage, but in English I think the subject for "to depend" is the outcome. The outcome depends on the condition transitively. So it seems, depend karna would be "correct" if you say
ye tumhare shauhar par depend karta hai ...
or
ye tumhare shauhar par dependent hai ...
"ye" depends on "shauhar"
So I was thinking that منحصر should be a direct replacement for "dependent".



marrish said:


> I'm curious if nirbhar karnaa in Hindi can be traced down to the period preceeding the English influence?


I too am curious about this.


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## Faylasoof

daee said:


> Thanks everyone for your very informative replies.
> 
> Of course we are only discussing non-standard usage, but in English I think the subject for "to depend" is the outcome. The outcome depends on the condition transitively. So it seems, depend karna would be "correct" if you say
> ye tumhare shauhar par depend karta hai ...
> or
> ye tumhare shauhar par dependent hai ...
> "ye" depends on "shauhar"
> So I was thinking that منحصر should be a direct replacement for "dependent".
> .......


 I realise that we are talking of non-standard Urdu here and yes your 2nd sentence above is a case of direct substitution! As for your first (ye tumhare shauhar par depend kartaa hai ), this can also be rephrased to give a different meaning: _ye tumhare shauhar par bharosaa kartaa hai_ =  _ye tumhare shauhar par i3timaad rak-htaa / karta hai = _This (person)/ he relies on / depends on / has confidence in your husband.


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## Sheikh_14

How would we refer to self-dependance- perhaps as xud-inhisaarii/xud-inhisaar, xud-inhisaariiyaat or xud munhasirii? Whereas someone who is self-dependant could be xud-munhasir, baa xud-inhisaar or even baa xudii e Iqbal (a reference to Allamah Iqbal's philosophy of self-reliance in xudii) and iqbaalaanah xudii waalaa/ii/daar/mand and so on and so forth.


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## amiramir

For your info, there was a thread here that may be relevant: Hindi/Urdu: depends on


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## Sheikh_14

amira jee that thread only goes as far as this one, in the sense that my questions and suggestions are an extension of what had been proffered.


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