# FR: J'ai perdu mon amie, sans l'avoir mérité, pour un bouquet de roses que je lui refusai



## cheshire

J'ai perdu mon ami
Sans *l*'avoir mérité
Pour un bouquet de roses
Que je lui *refusai*.​This is from_ À la claire fontaine_. What does "l" refer to? (1)He, (2)That I lost his affection. 
And what did I refuse? (3) giving him a bouquet of roses, (4) receiving a bouquet of roses from him?
Was losing him not deserving her? Or was he above her?


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## grosmax

"l" simply refers to perdre
I lost (him) without having deserved *it*.

And I would say (it's quite a long time I sung it )
the song reads "j'ai perdu mon ami*e*".
Then, she wanted him to give her roses and he refused
(in that case, he did deserve losing her ).

If "ami" is right, it would mean
that *he* offered her flowers
and *she* refused them
and then lost him for that reason ("pour" + past infinitive)
(fair enough )

EDIT: uups - there seems to be no past infinitive there


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## cheshire

grosmax said:


> "l" simply refers to perdre
> I lost (him) without having deserved *it*.
> 
> And I would say (it's quite a long time I sung it )
> the song reads "j'ai perdu mon ami*e*".
> Then, she wanted him to give her roses and he refused
> (in that case, he did deserve losing her ).
> 
> If "ami" is right, it would mean
> that *he* offered her flowers
> and *she* refused them
> and then lost him for that reason ("pour" + past infinitive)
> (fair enough )
> 
> EDIT: uups - there seems to be no past infinitive there


Thanks again grosmax the great! I like this heart-break song. I think my quote was an arranged version for female singers.

It is not that "he" deserved better than me, but losing him was a thing that shouldn't have taken place, right?


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## grosmax

> It is not that "he" deserved better than me, but losing him was a thing that shouldn't have taken place, right?


...was a thing I did not deserve


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## itka

> J'ai perdu mon ami
> Sans *l*'avoir mérité
> Pour un bouquet de roses
> Que je lui *refusai*.



Grosmax, I don't agree with you...

This bunch of roses that *she* refused to give *him* is a symbol : she refused to give him her love, her body... that's what she lost her friend, but she assumes she didn't deserve it.

I knew another version and the words were : _pour un bouton de rose que je lui refusai_ which is clearer !


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## grosmax

itka,
now that I see that,
I reckon you might be right.

 And I guess you're a woman


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## itka

grosmax said:


> i
> And I guess you're a woman



Gagné !


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## cheshire

itka said:


> Grosmax, I don't agree with you...
> 
> This bunch of roses that *she* refused to give *him* is a symbol : she refused to give him her love, her body... that's what she lost her friend, but she assumes she didn't deserve* it*.
> 
> I knew another version and the words were : _pour un bouton de rose que je lui refusai_ which is clearer !


 
Thanks!
Sorry for being importunate, but by "she assumes she didn't deserve it," do you mean that "she" thinks she is above him? Or does "she" think he is above her?


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## Aldebarbaran

itka said:


> Grosmax, I don't agree with you...
> 
> This bunch of roses that *she* refused to give *him* is a symbol : she refused to give him her love, her body... that's what she lost her friend, but she assumes she didn't deserve it.
> 
> I knew another version and the words were : _pour un bouton de rose que je lui refusai_ which is clearer !


 
Et moi qui croyais que c'était une chanson pour enfants  
Je n'avais jamais vu cette version!


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## Aldebarbaran

En cherchant sur Google je trouve cette version:

J'ai perdu mon ami*e*,
Sans l'avoir mérité
Pour un bouquet de roses,
Que je lui refusai

Donc là c'est un homme qui a perdu son ami*e*, parce qu'elle lui demandait un bouquet de roses et qu'il le lui a refusé.

Combien de versions y a-t-il?


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## grosmax

cheshire said:


> Thanks!
> Sorry for being importunate, but by "she assumes she didn't deserve it," do you mean that "she" thinks she is above him? Or does "she" think he is above him her?



None of it, I would say.
She just means she did not deserve "that", i.e. losing him just for having refused herself ("that's just not fair"). That has nothing to do with one of both being "above" the other.
 (I hope itka will forgive me for answering instead of her )


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## KaRiNe_Fr

La version créole continue :


> Je voudrais que la rose fût encore un rosier
> Et que le rosier même fût encore à planter !


Ça va aussi vers la version « pour adulte » expliquée par Itka. 
Sinon (avec amie), ça marche aussi pour les enfants.


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## grosmax

Aldebarbaran said:


> En cherchant sur Google je trouve cette version:
> 
> J'ai perdu mon ami*e*,
> Sans l'avoir mérité
> Pour un bouquet de roses,
> Que je lui refusai
> 
> Donc là c'est un homme qui a perdu son ami*e*, parce qu'elle lui demandait un bouquet de roses et qu'il le lui a refusé.
> 
> Combien de versions y a-t-il?



Je le chantais comme ça étant enfant,
avec le "e" prononcé à part: mon ami-e
de la même manière que la syllabe finale de "roses"
(versification en 7+6+7+6).

Ceci dit, je ne doute guère qu'il y en ait diverses versions.
Mais quant à savoir si le sens crypté des "roses" est originel ou tardif...


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## KaRiNe_Fr

grosmax said:


> Je le chantais comme ça étant enfant,
> avec le "e" prononcé à part: mon ami-e
> de la même manière que la syllabe finale de "roses"
> (versification en 7+6+7+6).
> [...]


C'est vrai ! Je viens de me la chanter, et je prononce le e aussi. 
Ouf, j'ai appris la version soft !


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## grosmax

KaRiNe_Fr,
comme le complément que tu as apporté


> Je voudrais que la rose
> Fût encore un rosier
> Et que le rosier même
> Fût encore à planter !


présente lui aussi une versification en 7+6+7+6 pieds,
ne peut-on présumer que la version "soft" serait "plus originale" que l'autre?


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## KaRiNe_Fr

grosmax said:


> [...]
> comme le complément que tu as apporté [...]
> présente lui aussi une versification en 7+6+7+6 pieds,
> ne peut-on présumer que la version "soft" serait "plus originale" que l'autre?


Oui, c'est très convaincant, grosmax.


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