# Origin of "pretty" as slang for "somewhat"



## dsfje345

In an answer to a question asked on another website about the origin of "pretty" as an adverb in a sentence like "that's pretty good" or a phrase like "pretty much" , someone suggested it could be derived from the French _"près de_" (near)
I find this suggestion really interesting , what do you think ?


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## Welsh_Sion

My Shorter Oxford Dictionary gives this under 'pretty' (the adverb deriving from the adjective):

"[ORIGIN Old English prættiġ corresp. to Middle Low German prattich capricious, overbearing, Middle Dutch (ghe)pertich brisk, clever, roguish, Dutch †prettig sportive, humorous, from West Germanic base meaning ‘trick’: ult. origin unkn.]"

I wouldn't call the adverb a 'slang' use, either.


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## dsfje345

@Welsh_Sion Thank you for your reply .
Can we say that this excludes the possibility for "pretty" to be of French origin ?


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## Penyafort

I can't see how "pretty" could come from "près de" from a phonetical point of view.

Yet I wouldn't rule out some sort of semantical influence. In French, as in my native Catalan, the words _beau bel belle_ (_bell bella_), which mean "beautiful, pretty" can also have sometimes a quantitative meaning.


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## Derakhshan

In Persian _qašang_ "beautiful" can be used as an adverb to intensify "clearness", like قشنگ معلومه/قشنگ مشخصه which can perhaps be translated as "pretty clear/evident". Maybe "pretty" as an adverb in English originated in these sorts of phrases involving "clearness".


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## berndf

The adverb _pretty_ is derived from an obsolescing sense of the adjective: _to a considerable extent_, as in the expression _a pretty penny = a large amount of money_ or in _a pretty many = a good man_y.


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## dsfje345

Penyafort said:


> I can't see how "pretty" could come from "près de" from a phonetical point of view.



Actually the "s" in "près de" is silent, that's why I found it similar-sounding.


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## Perseas

berndf said:


> The adverb _pretty_ is derived from an obsolescing sense of the adjective: _to a considerable extent_, as in the expression _a pretty penny = a large amount of money_ or in _a pretty many = a good man_y.


Ah, like the German "eine gute Menge" with similar meaning.


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## berndf

Perseas said:


> Ah, like the German "eine gute Menge" with similar meaning.


Rather: _eine schöne Summe_.


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## Stoggler

dsfje345 said:


> Actually the "s" in "près de" is silent, that's why I found it similar-sounding.



Similar sounding possibly, but still nothing to do with “pretty” (as the etymological information provided above clearly points out).


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## Olaszinhok

berndf said:


> Rather: _eine schöne Summe_.


The same occurs in Italian _ _una bella somma _but also _un bel po' di soldi _- a large amount of money.


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## L'irlandais

The usual place to check the etymology of a word is:
pretty | Origin and meaning of pretty by Online Etymology Dictionary
Which confirms #2 and adds some further detail on #6


> Meaning "not a few, considerable" is from late 15c. With a sense of "moderately," qualifying adjectives and adverbs, since 1560s. Pretty please as an emphatic plea is attested from 1902. A pretty penny "lot of money" is first recorded 1768.



I am unsure how the French _près de_ can be used to convey the same thing as “a pretty penny”?
_une somme rondelette_

That’s pretty good (without further context) = _C'est plutôt bien._
Pretty much (again without additional context) = _plutôt _


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## berndf

Attestations of the adjective in sense considerable in the MED also date from the late 15th century. See sense 2b: MiddleEnglishDictionary


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## L'irlandais

Nice resource.  I think the problem with discussing some random comment from A.N. Other forum is, that we have no idea if the person was a French-native speaker with an A1 level of English, and so missed the point completely, or an accomplished polygot who was making a different point altogether.


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## berndf

L'irlandais said:


> Nice resource.


Yes, for the study of medieval English it is an absolutely essential tool.


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## L'irlandais

I must confess Tolkien’s translation of Beowulf was one of my only attempts at reading Old English
JRR Tolkien's translation of Beowulf: Guardian article (His other works mentioned, I’ve read too.)
Living in France along with improving my German and dabbling a little in my native Irish, those keep me more than busy.


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## berndf

The MED only attests Middle English. It sometimes contains some late OE texts that overlap in time with early Middle English and has some Old English etymologogical information but does not systematically cover Old English.


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## L'irlandais

Tolkien has translated a few Middle English works too.   Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, Sir Orfeo and more recently (published) The fall of Aurthur.  I think some French folk lose sight of the fact that only around 29% of English vocabulary is rooted in (Norman) French.  They start to draw parallels where there are none.


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## Red Arrow

Welsh_Sion said:


> Dutch †prettig


Does † mean that the word has become obsolete? Prettig is still used in Dutch.

Prettig gestoord = pretty insane (?)


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## Welsh_Sion

Red Arrow - I am no expert in Dutch and I submit to your superior knowledge.

Yes, the dagger indicates 'obsolete' in this dictionary, and it _ could mean_ that the definition of *prettig *as 'sportive, humorous' is obsolete. 

Again, I bow to any superior knowledge of nederlandans. I copied this from my dictionary. If the dictionary is in error, then please take it up with them.


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## Red Arrow

I would translate it as "pleasant", but sportive and humorous could work in some contexts.
_Pret_ means "fun". _Prettig_ comes from _pret_ +_ ig_.

In West-Flemish, _prettig / pertig_ [pɛrtəh] means the same thing as in English: handsome.
The E and R have switched places (metathesis).


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## L'irlandais

Okay the adjective is still used in Dutch
prettig | Dutch-English Translation - Cambridge Dictionary
Doesn’t prettig gestoord translate to mean eccentric = slightly strange  ECCENTRIC (adjective) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

The etymology suggests the word is obsolete when conveying the particular meaning « not a few » as in a pretty penny


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## Red Arrow

Hmmm, Cambridge Dictionary says the meaning "agreeable" is old-fashioned, but the second meaning "gratifying" is not. But don't they both just mean "pleasing"?   

_Prettig_ is most often used in "Prettige dag verder!" = "Have a nice day!", "Prettig Pasen!" = "Happy Easter!" etc. It is not used to say cool or epic. Is that reason enough to say it is old-fashioned? It is certainly not obsolete.


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## L'irlandais

Yes but this suggests #20 is correct, a shift in meaning of prettig in Dutch today
Happy Easter: Gelukkig Paasfest, Gelukkige Pasen, Vrolijk Pasen, Zalige paasdagen, Zalig Pasen?
Have a nice day, or an agreeable Easter


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