# Hindi, Urdu: use of ko in possession



## tonyspeed

_ko_ can sometimes take the place of _ke paas_ in certain constructions.

_mujhe kaam hai
mujhe fursat hai
_mujhe zukaam hai
mujhe biimaarii hai
mujhe buxaar hai

In some grammar books this is described as a distinction between tangible and intangible objects. 
In reality, however, this doesn't always seem to be the case.

_insaan ke paas izzat honii chahiye_
_aap ke paas meraa dil hai_

Both _dil_ and _izzat_ can be classified as intangible things.

Furthermore, in a recent thread it was said that 
_kyaa aap ko aNDe haiN_ would imply a question for a hen because _ko_ implies ownership of children in this case.

Can we clarify the use of_ ko_ for possession?

Is it a case where the grammars and the public disagree?


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> [...]
> Furthermore, in a recent thread it was said that
> _kyaa aap ko aNDe haiN_ would imply a question for a hen because _ko_ implies ownership of children in this case.
> 
> Can we clarify the use of_ ko_ for possession?
> 
> Is it a case where the grammars and the public disagree?


Speaking from an Urdu perspective this is new to me.


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## Kahaani

Not being a native Urdu/Hindi speaker myself, I have also learned from textbooks that _ko_ can be used to denote possession. 

_Mujhe (Mujhko) ek ghar hai
UnheN (Unko) teen bacche haiN
Mujhe apnii chaabii nahiiN hai
Mujhe koi samay/waqt nahiiN hai

_Would these sentences be correct?


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## Qureshpor

Kahaani said:


> Not being a native Urdu/Hindi speaker myself, I have also learned from textbooks that _ko_ can be used to denote possession.
> 
> _Mujhe (Mujhko) ek ghar hai
> UnheN (Unko) teen bacche haiN
> Mujhe apnii chaabii nahiiN hai
> Mujhe koi samay/waqt nahiiN hai
> 
> _Would these sentences be correct?


No.


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## tonyspeed

Kahaani said:


> Not being a native Urdu/Hindi speaker myself, I have also learned from textbooks that _ko_ can be used to denote possession.
> 
> _Mujhe (Mujhko) ek ghar hai
> UnheN (Unko) teen bacche haiN
> Mujhe apnii chaabii nahiiN hai
> Mujhe koi samay/waqt nahiiN hai
> 
> _Would these sentences be correct?




_meraa ek ghar hai_
_mere tiin bachche haiN_
_mere paas apnii cahaabii nahiiN_
_mere paas vakt(vaqt) nahiiN_ ---- I have seen one or two uses of _mujhe_ online but doesn't seem as frequent as _mere paas_


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## littlepond

Kahaani said:


> Not being a native Urdu/Hindi speaker myself, I have also learned from textbooks that _ko_ can be used to denote possession.
> 
> _Mujhe (Mujhko) ek ghar hai
> UnheN (Unko) teen bacche haiN
> Mujhe apnii chaabii nahiiN hai
> Mujhe koi samay/waqt nahiiN hai
> 
> _Would these sentences be correct?



Yes (i.e. correct) for "Unko teen bachche haiN".


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## Kahaani

> Possession[edit] Possession, reflecting what many other languages indicate via the verb _to have_, is reflected in Hindustani by the genitive _kā_ (inflected appropriately) or the postposition _ke pās_ and the verb _honā_. Possible objects of possession (nouns) fall into two main categories in Hindustani: one for persons such as family members, or body parts, and the other for most inanimate objects, animals, most abstract ideas, and some persons such as servants.
> 
> 
> For indicating possession with objects of the first category, _kā_ appears after the subject of the possession, followed by the object. With personal pronouns, this requires the use of the possessive pronoun (inflected appropriately). Examples: _Merī mātā he_ ("I have a mother"), _Shiv kī tīn ā̃khẽ hain_ ("Shiva has three eyes").
> For indicating possession with objects of the second category, the compound postposition _ke pās_ is used. For example: _Mohan ke pās ek bukkarī he_ ("Mohan has one goat"). Source: Wikipedia.com




 It seems that _ko_ can not be used to denote possession after all. However, this doesn't explain the sentences such as _mujhe buxaar hai._


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## littlepond

Kahaani said:


> *
> [/LIST]
> *
> 
> sentences such as _mujhe buxaar hai._



Note that many Hindi native speakers also use "mujh *ko *bukhaar hai" - and no one finds it odd.


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## Kahaani

Yes, mujhe and mujhko are interchangeable, same applies for unheN/unko, inheN/inko, tumheN/tumko, etc.


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## marrish

Kahaani said:


> *It seems that ko can not be used to denote possession after all*. However, this doesn't explain the sentences such as _mujhe buxaar hai._


It is absolutely a wrong conclusion. "_ko_" can and does express possession in certain situations but they are limited.
...
_mujhe/mujh ko fursat hae/nahiiN hae_ is correct.


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## gagun

I want to give some usage of ko as* jaa ko*(deccani style) of usage of jaa kar/jaa ke(standard urdu) I know this ko is not related to "ko" in standard hindi/urdu


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## littlepond

^ Interesting note about Urdu: in Hindi (braj), "jaa ko" would mean "jis ko".


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## marrish

Now littlepond jii perseveres in his opinion about "bachche" - I found some instances of such usage in Hindi and Urdu. My usage doesn't recognise it or didn't until this discussion but I can acknowledge that it exists. If I can say something with some degree of authority is about Urdu - it is absolutely not advisable to use ko with _bachche_; about Hindi I can say it was found mainly used in connection to x and z marrage and "_unko_ n. (any number) _bachche_ _haiN_/_the/hu'e_". Normally I find it odd to say_ mujhe bachche nahiiN _or_ unko chaar bachche haiN or aap ko bachche haiN? _But I am told it is a mapping of an older Persian construction.

[Urdu:] _mere (ko'ii) bachche nahiiN. un ke baal bachche haiN_ (or _bachche baale). aap ke baal bachche haiN_? Or, _aap kii aulaad _(f.) _hae_? Of course it will get another sense if you say _aap kii aulaad "kahaaN" hae?_

_merii ek bahan hae_ not _mujhe ek bahan hae_. But _mujh ko aids hae, kaam hae_ (not that I am employed, just I've got something to do)


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## Alfaaz

The following is an entry in Urdu Lughat:


> کو:
> 
> 16. کے پاس، کنے، نزدیک۔
> جن لوگوں کو چشم بینش ہے ان کو محسوس بھی ہوتا ہے۔"


_ko:

16. ke paas, kane, nazdeek
"jin logoN ko chashm-e-biinish hai, un ko maHsuus bhii hotaa hai."_

However, this usage doesn't seem to be listed in other Urdu dictionaries.


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## marrish

It is bound to be described in older dictionaries as I know that many instances in poetry are to be found. 
By the way, I don't understand "_kane_" Must be old or obscure.


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> By the way, I don't understand "_kane_" Must be old or obscure.


  I edited my previous post to include a link to Platts. _kane _was used in older Urdu (as discussed in a previous thread in the forum), is still used in some dialects, and even in some films & television dramas. Examples:


> "جو ہوا سو ہوا جی! میرے کنے اس وقت فرصتاں کوئی نہ! انہیں بھیج دیں اور آپ بھی تشریفاں لے جائیں!
> 
> "اچھا، تو اس کے کنے خود چلے جاتے ہیں"
> 
> "ہم بھی تیرے کنے فرمائشاں لے کر آئے"
> 
> - از پاکستانی اردو فلم: ثریّا بھوپالی


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## marrish

Thank you, Alfaaz SaaHib 

 Other usages of "ko of possession" which are very common are:

 "_us *ko* xabar/3ilm/ittilaa3/pataa hae_" and "_us *ko* fikr hae_", 
_us *ko* pareshaanii hae_, but it doesn't work with _xayaal_: "_us *kaa* xayaal hae_".


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## Kahaani

Rama Kant Agnihotri in _Hindi: __An essential Grammar_ explains:
_"Possesion in Hindi is normally indicated by kaa 'of'..."
"There are also some other forms that participate in suggesting possession. They incluse the invariant ke, 'of' in the sense of, for example, ''having children, ko,'to', in the sense of, for example, 'having fever' in dative constructions, me, 'in', ke paas, 'near, in the possession of', and apnaa, 'own'''

_The author proceeds to explain the usage of _kaa_ and its variants and adds:
_"We often use the invariant ke, 'of', to indicate family relationships, in the sense X has 'so many children', 'two brothers', 'three sisters', and so on...."
"This use of ke is often extended to include the larger family network and even friends."_

About _ko_ he says the following:
_"We use ko, 'to' in the sense of say, having fever, when what the person posses is a physical state..."_

About _meN_  to denote possession he states the following:
_"The use of meN, 'in' is restricted to specific abstract posesson, such as: Mohan meN bas yahii ek kami hai"

_I think that regarding sentences such as_ 'usko xabaar/padeshaan/buxaar hai' _indeed it concerns a physical state. This would also explain why _'Unko teen bacche haiN' _does not sound right to many speakers in this forum.

I would further like to add that the author differentiates between an invariable _ke_ and the normal inflexed _ke_ which was derived from _kaa_. So, _'Mohan ke ek laRkii hai' _would be considered correct.


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## gagun

hello every one   I personally use kane and its meaning in urdu is ke paas and ko. You would find this usage in Urdu of southern part of India.   mErkanAy paisAy nhai haiN(mere paas) UskanAy masti zada hai(ko ),hamaarkanAy vaxat nhai hai(hamaarey paas vaqt nahiN hai), buildingkanAy(nearer to building), apankanAy(apney paas) etc.


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## littlepond

I have also heard "ku" for possession a lot in Urdu in south India. "meraku bahoot kaam hae" - very typical of Urdu down south (note the change pron. of "bahoot" and "hae", instead of the Hindi "bauhat" and "hai").


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## marrish

littlepond said:


> I have also heard "ku" for possession a lot in Urdu in south India. "meraku bahoot kaam hae" - very typical of Urdu down south (note the change pron. of "bahoot" and "hae", instead of the Hindi "bauhat" and "hai").


"much" بہُت बहुत has several forms - your spelling bauhat instead of bahut testifies to it and this has been discussed in the past. As for _hae_ you can even see that in both my posts in this thread I wrote _hae_.


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## gagun

littlepond said:


> I have also heard "ku" for possession a lot in Urdu in south India. "meraku bahoot kaam hae" - very typical of Urdu down south (note the change pron. of "bahoot" and "hae", instead of the Hindi "bauhat" and "hai").



mereku bahoot kaamaN haiN here h in bahoot is silent so it may near to like बोऊत or बऊत and also 
mErkaney kaam hai  is different from meraku kaam hai
ex:
mErkaney Ek kaam hai..tu kartaa/kartii kya.
mErkuu bahuut zaruuri kaam hai...maiN jaaruuN/jaariim.


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## gagun

coming to discussion about ko
_uskaa hOsh aaya.
uskoo hOsh aaya.
voh hOsh meiN aayaa/aayi/aaye/aayin.
uskaa.. hOsh meiN aaya_a(I heard this in bw films only and here after *'uskaa*' something is missing to me) all have similar meanings but

_uskii xabar hai 
usko xabar hai _both have different meanings.

Thankyou


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