# Punjabi: Shadaayi



## souminwé

I'm sure we've all heard the song (_shadaayi mujhe kar gaya.._). I was surprised to hear this word in a Hindi song - my mum called me so all the time growing up, and as a child, my theories were that either it was a made up word or possibly Punjabi (the latter has been confirmed, haha). What is the etymology of this word? Tadbhav, Persian, Arabic... Pashto o . O ?
The only word that I could find in a Punjabi dictionary that seemed close was *shuhdaa*, and I based that conclusion off of the similarity to variant *shudaayi*. Plus I'm guessing people probably pronounce that as *shodaa*. And actually, which variant is correct, the *sha- *or the *shu-* ?


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## marrish

souminwé said:


> I'm sure we've all heard the song (_shadaayi mujhe kar gaya.._). I was surprised to hear this word in a Hindi song - my mum called me so all the time growing up, and as a child, my theories were that either it was a made up word or possibly Punjabi (the latter has been confirmed, haha). What is the etymology of this word? Tadbhav, Persian, Arabic... Pashto o . O ?
> The only word that I could find in a Punjabi dictionary that seemed close was *shuhdaa*, and I based that conclusions off of the similarity to variant *shudaayi*. Plus I'm guessing people probably pronounce that as *shodaa*. And actually, which variant is correct, the *sha- *or the *shu-* ?


I haven't heard the song yet but I will surely try to listen to it so that I am certain about the pronunciation. Why is it important? Because we will know whether a Punjabi word is there in the song or perhaps an Urdu one. In both cases the origin of the word is Persian, in Urdu it is *shaidaa'ii* and in Punjabi, at least according to my experience and usage, it is _*shudaa'ii/shidaa'ii*. Both mean _'crazy, mad; madly in love'. I hope it can help you out for the moment. I will get back as soon as I have listened to the song.


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## souminwé

Is shaidaa'ii a bookish word in Urdu?


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## Faylasoof

souminwé said:


> Is shaidaa'ii a bookish word in Urdu?


 Not at all! Well, not in our Urdu but since Urdu standards vary some may think it bookish.


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## Wolverine9

In the song, it seems the word is *shaidaa'ii*, but I wonder if your mom was playfully calling you a variant of *shohdaa *instead, which means "scoundrel."  The former is of Persian origin, the latter is from Arabic.  However, I'm not fully certain if *shohdaa *can be used in such a playful manner, though.


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## souminwé

My mum is one of those post-partition, English-educated folks who doesn't really understand Perso-Arabic words very well - I'm sure she meant the _shudaayi/shidaayi_ mentioned here. Interestingly, she thinks it ought to be spelt शुधाई (using Devanagari for convenience's sake). I can't really hear Punjabi tones, so I have no idea how that sounds different from शुदाई.

EDIT: Also, you underestimate my mother's ability to shade; I'm not sure if she would care whether it can be used in a playful manner, lol!


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## souminwé

Wolverine, are you sure you listened to the right song? _Rabba Mein Toh Mar Gaya Oye_, from the movie _Mausam_. Because it's clearly a *shu* in the song.


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## Qureshpor

I personally doubt if your mother was using the word "shaidaa'ii" based on "shaidaa" below. 

P شيدا _shaidā (prob. fr. shaid = shed), adj. & s.m. Possessed, mad, insane, distraught, deeply in love;—a madman; a lover.

_I suspect she was actually calling you "saudaa'ii"* in a somewhat corrupted form. In Punjab, people do use "sodaa'ii" for a mad/insane person but I must confess I have n't heard it with a "sh" sound. As we all know, one does get s/sh, sh/s variation sometimes.

I have n't heard the song in question. One of the main voices I enjoyed listening to died almost 33 years ago!

* from saudaa. Incidentally, nom de plume of a famous Urdu poet.


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## souminwé

What a coincidence of words! As you can probably tell, my knowledge of Punjabi is pretty low. It seems that *shudaa'ii *has a sexual component to it, so your observation on* sauda'ii* seems likely (and something I've heard from Punjabi relatives). Somewhat out of character that Punjabis would have such a lowly view of business 

As for the song, it's one of those pop-y, Bollywood songs set in Punjab. Perhaps I've been a bit assumptive about my audience's media consumption habits!


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## Wolverine9

souminwé said:


> Wolverine, are you sure you listened to the right song? _Rabba Mein Toh Mar Gaya Oye_, from the movie _Mausam_. Because it's clearly a *shu* in the song.



No, I didn't listen to the correct song until now.  It think it's actually *shaddaa'ii*, which is from *shaddaa *and defined below.

H شدا _shaddā_, (prob. corr. of A. شدة, fr. _shadd_, q.v.),  s.m. The banners that are carried with the _taʻziya_ in the Moḥarram.

A شد _shadd_ (inf. n. of شدّ 'to make hard, firm, or strong,' &c.), s.m. Rendering hard or strong, &c.; intensifying;  emphasizing; pitching of the voice (used chiefly in comp.):—_shadd-o-madd_, s.m. Emphasizing (in reading, &c.); intensity; emphasis, stress; force; severity.

EDIT: I found a lyrics website for the song that lists the word as "shaddai" and defines it as "overpower, destroy," which is related to the Arabic definition above and is  a name for God in the Hebrew Bible.


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## Qureshpor

Wolverine9 said:


> In the song, it seems the word is *shaidaa'ii*, but I wonder if your mom was playfully calling you a variant of *shohdaa *instead, which means "scoundrel."  The former is of Persian origin, the latter is from Arabic.  However, I'm not fully certain if *shohdaa *can be used in such a playful manner, though.


What's its connection with Arabic?


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## Qureshpor

I've just listened to the beginning of the song. I still feel your mother was using a variation of "saudaa'ii" pronunication and her calling you "shaidaa'ii" would n't make sense, not at that age, unless you were a bit of a MajnuuN in your youth!! This word in the song has nothing to do with "shuhdaa/shohdaa" either, which is not of Arabic origins. My guess is that it might be connected to "shuudar". At any rate, the Punjabi word has the meaning of "be-chaarah" on the one hand and "mean/low" on the other...and there is no "shuhdaa'ii/shohdaa'ii" formation.

P شيدا _shaidā (prob. fr. shaid = shed), adj. & s.m. Possessed, mad, insane, distraught, deeply in love;—a madman; a lover. 
_
Edit: I am still of the view that this is a connected with "saudaa'ii". My certainty is based on the feminine version of the word, which in my part of the Punjab is pronounced as "sodaiNR". The definition below is taken from a Punjabi dictionary.

So, in conclusion, what your mother called you and what the song writer is saying is the word below based on the Arabic "saudaa'ii".






ਸ਼ੁਦਾਈਸ਼ੁਦੈਣ




[FONT=Alvi Nastaleeq v1.0.0]شدائی[/FONT][FONT=Alvi Nastaleeq v1.0.0]شدین[/FONT]

_adjective & noun, masculine/adjective & noun, feminine_mad, insane, lunatic, maniac, crazy, loony, daft


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## Wolverine9

^ In the song, it sounds like the word is pronounced *shaddaa'ii*, but I agree that _*shaidaa'ii*_ may be the intended meaning.

_shohdaa _is of Arabic origin; the etymology in Platts is wrong and _shuudar _isn't plausible either because it's missing the medial _h_.  It's derived from _shuhadaa_, which is the plural of _shahiid _"martyr," with a change in meaning to "scoundrel."  How this semantic change occurred is unclear.


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## Qureshpor

^ We have cross posted and I have amended my post. The word in question has nothing to do with the Punjabi "shuhdaa/shohdaa/shodaa" nor the Arabic "shuhadaa2", plural of "shahiid". The medial "h" is a tonal h.


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## Wolverine9

souminwé said:


> I'm sure we've all heard the song (_shadaayi mujhe kar gaya.._). I was surprised to hear this word in a Hindi song - my mum called me so all the time growing up, and as a child, my theories were that either it was a made up word or possibly Punjabi (the latter has been confirmed, haha).



What does your mom think is the meaning of the word?

Are you sure she wasn't just calling you _shaitaan_?


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## Treaty

According to Dehkhoda, the Persian _shaidaa_ is an Aramaic loanword, originally in form of _shaddaa_ which is found in Avesta. I'm not sure how correct this etymology is but it may be an explanation for the existence of _shaddaa _pronunciation.


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## Qureshpor

^ Be that as it may, but this word is based on "saudaa2" as I have indicated. 

A سودا _saudā (orig. fem. of aswad, 'black'; see sawād), s.m. The black bile (one of the four humours of the body), atrabilis; melancholy; hypochondria; frenzy, madness, insanity; love; desire, concupiscence; ambition:—saudā ućhalnā, A fit of madness to break out; to have a return of a fit of insanity:—saudā honā (-ko), To have a fit of madness, to become mad._


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## Sheikh_14

Hi there everybody what about the word شدائی as in a passionate enthusiast be it of a sport (cricket kaa shaddaa'ii) or anything else for that matter? Doesn't shaddaa'ii find it's roots in shadd and shiddat and thus is of Arabic origins? As opposed to shaiddaa'ii which you all have indicated is of Perso-origins. Lastly what would the plural form be of both words in Prakrit terms ot would quite obviously be shaddaa'iiyoN but what about otherwise potentially shaddaa'iiaan (Perso-pluralisation) & shaddaa'iieen (Arabic pluralisation)?


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