# Filius abortivus Tuae Paternitatis



## Tonoy

Dear Sir,
I tried to find a good translation of the following Latin expression. But I am not satisfied with my translation: "Son of Your Paternity, born out of due time ."

*"Filius abortivus Tuae Paternitatis"*

Is there a better option? Thank you very much.


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## Snodv

I'm afraid the word _abortivus_, while defined as "prematurely born," strongly suggests "miscarried," hence its English derivatives _abort, abortion, abortive_; it is also used to designate a medication as causing abortion.  I'm sorry I am not familiar with the expression.


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## Tonoy

Snodv said:


> I'm afraid the word _abortivus_, while defined as "prematurely born," strongly suggests "miscarried," hence its English derivatives _abort, abortion, abortive_; it is also used to designate a medication as causing abortion.  I'm sorry I am not familiar with the expression.


@Snodv Thank you for your response. It is a phrase used in Christian religious context.


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## Kevin Beach

Tonoy said:


> @Snodv Thank you for your response. It is a phrase used in Christian religious context.


Can you quote the full context, please?


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## Tonoy

Kevin Beach said:


> Can you quote the full context, please?


@Kevin Beach: it is a traditional closing salutation after a letter sent by a religious man.
I think the idea of representing one this way comes from St. Paul who depicts himself this way in one of his letters. Please see Bible: 1 Corinthins 15:8, and note that Paul is considered as an apostle like the disciples of Jesus, althouth Paul did not have direct contact with Jesus.
Thank you!


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## bearded

Tonoy said:


> a traditional closing salutation after a letter



Perhaps ''a late son of Your Paternity'', or ''a late-coming/adoptive son of Your Paternity''...? Not very satisfying, though.


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## Tonoy

bearded said:


> Perhaps ''a late son of Your Paternity'', or ''a late-coming/adoptive son of Your Paternity''...? Not very satisfying, though.


@bearded. Thank you very much. Your contribution of the concept of "late son" works here, but as you noticed, somehow it sound to me too as, "not very satisfying though". The question is how to depict a person, without somehow missing the flavour of this terminology "abortivus", who thinks that he is not as equal as others but claims that he is equal in grace.


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## bearded

Tonoy said:


> how to depict a person, without somehow missing the flavour….


A very difficult task!
Now the adjective ''inadequate'' is occurring to me. ''A late, inadequate son of Your Paternity''...


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## Tonoy

bearded said:


> A very difficult task!
> Now the adjective ''inadequate'' is occurring to me. ''A late, inadequate son of Your Paternity''...


@bearded. sorry Sir for the difficult task! But you have already conveyed the meaning.


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## Lambina

Hello Tonoy,

I'm not quite sure if I understand your problem but could you possibly use a translation of "_immaturus_" or "_praematurus_"? 

However, you will find "_abortivus_" not ony in Vulgata but in many Bible translations. 
For example:

Spanish: _como a un abortivo_ (Reina-Valera 1960) 
Portuguese: _como a um abortivo_ (Almeida Revista e Corrigida 2009)
Italian: _come all’aborto_ (Nuova Riveduta 2006)
French: _comme à l'avorton_ (Louis Segond)
So there must be people who understand the meaning in this context.


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## Tonoy

Lambina said:


> Hello Tonoy,
> 
> I'm not quite sure if I understand your problem but could you possibly use a translation of "_immaturus_" or "_praematurus_"?
> 
> However, you will find "_abortivus_" not ony in Vulgata but in many Bible translations.
> For example:
> 
> Spanish: _como a un abortivo_ (Reina-Valera 1960)
> Portuguese: _como a um abortivo_ (Almeida Revista e Corrigida 2009)
> Italian: _come all’aborto_ (Nuova Riveduta 2006)
> French: _comme à l'avorton_ (Louis Segond)
> So there must be people who understand the meaning in this context.


@Lambina. Thank you very much. Excellent discovery.


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## fdb

As you correctly say, this is an allusion to 1 Cor. 15,8, where Paul refers to himself as an ἔκτρωμα “untimely birth”, rendered in the Vulgata as “abortivus”, and in the KJV as “one born out of due time”.


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## Tonoy

fdb said:


> As you correctly say, this is an allusion to 1 Cor. 15,8, where Paul refers to himself as an ἔκτρωμα “untimely birth”, rendered in the Vulgata as “abortivus”, and in the KJV as “one born out of due time”.


@fdb. With your discovery of the equivalent word in Greek, I think, this conversation has reached its pinnacle. Thank you very much.


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## Kevin Beach

Would "prematurely born" fit the bill?


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## fdb

Kevin Beach said:


> Would "prematurely born" fit the bill?



The point of the passage in 1 Cor is that Paul was born too _late_ to have known Jesus in the flesh.


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## Scholiast

saluete omnes!


Kevin Beach said:


> Would "prematurely born" fit the bill?


Or 'from his mother's womb untimely ripped'?
Σ


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## Kevin Beach

Scholiast said:


> saluete omnes!
> 
> Or 'from his mother's womb untimely ripped'?
> Σ


Doesn't that quote (Macbeth?) refer to a birth by Caesarean section, rather than a premature birth as such?

There is a difference - I was born by Caesarean because I was more than 14 days overdue. I was definitely _not_ premature!


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## Scholiast

Yes, Kevin B, of course it is _Macbeth. _Act V Scene viii._
_
This was meant only as a gentle joke, which I think even classicists may sometimes be allowed.

But we risk the indignation of _moderatores strenui_, who may regard, or delete, this as 'chat'.

Σ


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## Tonoy

To everyone who helped me. Thank you very much: I give here the conclusion which I drew from the wonderful discussion. The finding expresses the mind of the author of the letter (first comment).
Paul considered himself as “*one born out of due time*." *ἔκτρωμα (ektróma)* alludes to “an abortive offspring.” However, in the case of Paul he was *"belatedly born*," not *"prematurely born.*" In a way, portraying oneself this way is definitely self-depreciating view of oneself compared with the other “twelve” (apostles). The “twelve” were disciples  before they were apostles. For further explanations. See John Philips, _Exploring I Corinthians: An Expository Commentary_ (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Academic 2002), 339.
Thank you everyone of you!!!


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## Scholiast

Hello Tonoy
Yes ἔκτρωμα means exactly what you say (# 19). St Paul liked to consider himself one of the Apostles, but in his heart of hearts knew he was not one of the Twelve, and this bothered him throughout his missionary endeavour. His dubious claim to apostolic status was based on his Damascus Rd vision (in _Acts_ 9), the validity of which among confessing Christians too has been subject to debate, even before the Jerusalem Council of AD 49.
'One born out of his time' is a phrase reflective of this emotional and psychological impasse on his excruciatingly difficult intellectual part. Paul was only a human being, and never contemplated, never mind wrote, any Systematic Theology.
Σ


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