# бояться + acc?



## Wasmachien

Hello,

I was reading an article when I saw this.



> — Почему государство так *боится Надю Толоконникову*?
> 
> — Оно *боится и Марию Алехину*. Эти фигурантки не вписываются в общий контекст. Они — исключительные осужденные. Первая причина —образованные. Вторая — уровень развития. Третья — жизненная позиция. Четвертая — возможность воспользоваться адвокатом. Потому что, как правильно написала Надя, — для всех из зоны нет выхода. Нет писем, жалоб; осужденные находятся в полной власти колонии? В том случае, если начальник — человек, все в порядке, как сейчас у Алехиной. Все письма Маши доходят до меня. У Нади не так. В ее колонии приговор отсекает от жизни. Толоконникову боятся потому, что она может крикнуть на весь мир — и, надеюсь, ее услышат.



I was always taught that бояться requires the genitive case, although here the accusative is used. Is this wrong? Does it sound wrong? Strangely enough, the couple of native speakers I asked couldn't tell me whether it was wrong and it didn't appear to sound bad either.

Source: http://old.novayagazeta.ru/data/2013/109/00.html


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## willem81

That is interesting indeed. I can say that the quoted phrase looks and sounds quite correctly. The answer to your question is that it is acceptable to use both the genetive and the accusative cases with the verb "бояться".

Я боюсь войны. Genetive
Я боюсь войну. Accusative

I think both variants are correct.


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## learnerr

willem81 said:


> The answer to your question is that it is acceptable to use both the genitive and the accusative cases with the verb "бояться".


Not with every noun. "Я боюсь трупов", but never "я боюсь трупы", while "я вижу трупы" is the only correct one with "видеть"; "я боюсь вилки" can only mean "вилка" ("fork") in the singular number.


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## willem81

learnerr said:


> Not with every noun. "Я боюсь трупов", but never "я боюсь трупы", while "я вижу трупы" is the only correct one with "видеть"; "я боюсь вилки" can only mean "вилка" ("fork") in the singular number.



Yes, you are correct. It works not with every noun. Perhaps someone knows the precise rule for that.

Update: I think I have a guess about this rule. This duality of accusative/genetive applies only when the noun is singular. But it does not when the noun is plural.


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## Maroseika

Бояться + Gen.- standard variant.
Бояться + Acc. - can be used in the colloquial speech.
Some more details here in par. 200.1.


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> Бояться + Gen.- standard variant.
> Бояться + Acc. - can be used in the colloquial speech.


What do you mean? Please expand, if you like; I don't understand. How they are used, according to you? In what circumstances and contexts the first happens to be used, and in what contexts and circumstances the other happens to be used? Thank you.
And, the last, is the phrase "государство боится Марии Алёхиной" at all possible, in your opinion?


			
				willem81 said:
			
		

> I think I have a guess about this rule. This duality of  accusative/genetive applies only when the noun is singular. But it does  not when the noun is plural.


"Я боюсь труп" does not work.


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## Maroseika

learnerr said:


> What do you mean? Please expand, if you like; I don't understand. How they are used, according to you? In what circumstances and contexts the first happens to be used, and in what contexts and circumstances the other happens to be used? Thank you.


Aren't ranges of use of standard (literary) and colloquial languages quite evident? 



> And, the last, is the phrase "государство боится Марии Алёхиной" at all possible, in your opinion?


This is standard (literary) variant.


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## willem81

learnerr said:


> "Я боюсь труп" does not work.



Very true. So, this rule is perhaps limited with the nouns in singular in feminine and neutral genders.


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> Aren't ranges of use of standard (literary) and colloquial languages quite evident?


No. I don't even see how many the ranges are.
What is more important, the implications for what the phrases mean (i.e. how they are perceived, what they make think), and where precisely happen the phrases to be used, are not evident either. They can be felt on a case-by-case basis, if you're a native, but they are not evident at all.
Third, it seems that the word "standard" loses its substantial meaning in your use: the sample of text is evidently quite standard and, to my taste, could not use the genitive, at least not together with "фигурантки". So, to play good, you would have to explain what the word means in terms of implications for speaker's and listener's life.
By the way, the paragraph that you've linked to does not use the term "standard" or anything similar.


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## learnerr

willem81 said:


> Very true. So, this rule is perhaps limited with the nouns in singular in feminine and neutral genders.


"Я боюсь городскую жизнь"? Sounds extremely bad to me.  As if the urban life is going to hunt for me and deliberately hurt me.


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## Maroseika

learnerr said:


> By the way, the paragraph that you've linked to does not use the term "standard" or anything similar.


The grammar reference of Rozental is about literary language (if you don't like the term "standard") on default, deviations, permittable in the colloquial speech, are mentioned separately.
Coming back to our case, I'd await  государство боится Надю Толоконникову in the oral interview rather than in the newspaper article. In the latter case it should be Нади Толоконниковой.


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> Coming back to our case, I'd await  государство боится Надю Толоконникову in the oral interview rather than in the newspaper article. In the latter case it should be Нади Толоконниковой.


Thank you. I would expect either one equally in the question, and only accusative in the answer (provided the question uses accusative). No matter whether the interview was for TV or for a newspaper. Accusative in the question sounds better to me, less solemn maybe.


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## Maroseika

I mean a newspaper article, not interview published in the newspaper, i.e written speech (article) vs oral speech (interview), where accusative is permittable. In the written speech it seems to me irrelevant.


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## willem81

learnerr said:


> "Я боюсь городскую жизнь"? Sounds extremely bad to me.  As if the urban life is going to hunt for me and deliberately hurt me.



Perhaps you are right. And with neutral gender it does not seem to work: Я боюсь зеркало.(acc) - not correct. So it works only with certain singular feminine nouns, but not all of them.

Thus, it would be a good advice for the topic starter to use nouns only in the genetive case with the verb "бояться", because it would be the safest of all. This accusative/genetive duality is also possible sometimes but a foreign speaker has to be very careful with it, because it's rather intuitive than formal. So better stick to the genetive case with this verb.


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> I mean a newspaper article, not interview published in the newspaper, i.e written speech (article) vs oral speech (interview), where accusative is permittable.


I see. So, what you mean is more or less that a newspaper article, in every possible context except some that need special treatment, would really need to use the genitive ("государство боится Нади Толоконниковой"). It looks questionable to me, but then it's a matter of those contexts, not this one. To me, taken alone, it does not sound well neither with the nickname, nor with the full name (in the latter case the message reminds me a picture from comic books).

Also, a word that I don't understand is "permittable" ("позволительно", if I understand this correctly); to me, its meaning does not fit the situation, and I don't see how to unambiguously substitute this word with something more sensible to make full understanding.


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## Maroseika

learnerr said:


> Also, a word that I don't understand is "permittable" ("позволительно", if I understand this correctly); to me, its meaning does not fit the situation, and I don't see how to unambiguously substitute this word with something more sensible to make full understanding.



I think that discussing the range of use of colloquial speech is beyond the scope of this thread. Coming back to the question of the thread, I can only repeat that according to the grammar  reference of Rozental (and to my feeling too) бояться + Acc. can be used only in the colloquial speech. In other cases бояться should be used with Gen. with whatever nouns.


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> I think that discussing the range of use of  colloquial speech is beyond the scope of this thread.


It was your idea and your initiative to discuss social ranges of use&meaning of the accusative with the verb "бояться". 


Maroseika said:


> Coming back to the question of the thread, I  can only repeat that according to the grammar  reference of Rozental  (and to my feeling too) бояться + Acc. can be used only in the  colloquial speech. In other cases бояться should be used with Gen. with  whatever nouns.


Rozental's reference does not contain this assertion. Roughly, it says,  first, that the constructions with the accusative have colloquial  appearance (more precisely, "character"), second, that they are usual  enough for colloquial speech.

As for "permittable", I still do not understand what you mean by this  adjective. Who will not permit and in what way? Some good sense most  likely can be added here, but is not it better to speak plainly so that  we avoid confusion?



willem81 said:


> And with neutral gender it does not seem to work: Я боюсь зеркало.(acc) - not correct. So it works only with certain singular feminine nouns, but not all of them.


More precisely, with some nouns of the third ("я боюсь мать" - "я боюсь матери") and the first ("я боюсь папу" - "я боюсь папы", even if the second does not sound quite well to me, and I think Rozental explains why) declensions. The noun "папа" is not feminine: for example, "мокрый папа".


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## Maroseika

learnerr said:


> It was your idea and your initiative to discuss social ranges of use&meaning of the accusative with the verb "бояться".


I did not suggest discussing anything like that, just provided the link to the grammar reference, which states quite distinctly: Разговорный характер имеют конструкции типа боюсь Анну Ивановну.
Discussion about the sense of the term "colloquial" is out of the scope of this thread.


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## willem81

learnerr said:


> More precisely, with some nouns of the third ("я боюсь мать" - "я боюсь матери") and the first ("я боюсь папу" - "я боюсь папы", even if the second does not sound quite well to me, and Rozental explains why) declensions. The noun "папа" is not feminine: for example, "мокрый папа".



Yes, I agree. So that is not a matter of genders but of declensions.


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## Garbuz

With inanimate objects it is 'бояться + genitive' without any doubt: бояться тишины, ветра, глуши. No native speaker would use the accusative. Fluctuations occur with animate nouns: бояться сестры/сестру, матери/мать. I still think it should be the genitive but the norm is getting blurred.


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## willem81

Garbuz said:


> Fluctuations occur with animate nouns: бояться сестры/сестру, матери/мать. I still think it should be the genitive but the norm is getting blurred.



Correct observation, but the declension must also be taken into account. Because, e.g. "бояться брата" - only Genetive and never Accusative.


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## Garbuz

willem81 said:


> Correct observation, but the declension must also be taken into account. Because, e.g. "бояться брата" - only Genetive and never Accusative.



The noun брат has the same inflexion both in genitive and accusative. How do you know which of them is applied?


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## learnerr

Maroseika said:


> I did not suggest discussing anything like that, just provided the link to the grammar reference, which states very clear: Разговорный характер имеют конструкции типа боюсь Анну Ивановну.


It is clear, and it does not say what you said it does.


> Discussion about the sense of the term "colloquial" is out of the scope of this thread.


In such case the reference would be pointless.
Also, I never discussed this topic since the first paragraph of #15, and I don't know why you quoted the second paragraph of the same post when you said you will not discuss it.


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## willem81

Garbuz said:


> The noun брат has the same inflexion both in genitive and accusative. How do you know which of them is applied?



Indeed so. Sorry, I withdraw my remark. So, all the animate nouns can be used in Accusative with this verb, as it seems.


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## Saluton

learnerr said:


> No. I don't even see how many the ranges are.


Then why don't you go to Google and read something about literary language and colloquial speech? This discussion you started is totally off topic.


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## learnerr

Saluton said:


> Then why don't you go to Google and read something about literary language and colloquial speech? This discussion you started is totally off topic.


I really doubt that anyone knows this, I should say.
I did not start any discussion at all, you must have misread something. So I don't know what you're talking of.


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