# 看过了



## jennychiu

"Have you watched that movie?"
"看过了."

Isn't that "过" and "了" are mutually exclusive for they are both meant to signal an action that has taken place?

Or is this just a specific instance of a dialectal use?

Thanks,
Jenny


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## SimonTsai

過 indicates that something took place but is not going on, or that a state used to exist. For example,

我愛過你。​
The speaker is implying, 'I no longer love you.' Here 過 is obligatory. In contrast,

冠豪，對不起，我好像喜歡上你了。​
In the above situation, 過 would be inappropriate if you included it.


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## Twangling

I guess that's because 了 serves more than indicating a past action. It is also a modal particle that conveys affirmation and a sense of "what's done is done and cannot be undone." Think of 了 as a mild version of 啦 if that makes any sense.

Here are a few examples:

Scenario A:
"I can't believe you never watched Game of Thrones!"（你居然连权力的游戏都没看过！）
"I tried. I just couldn't bring myself to finish it."（【看过】，实在看不下去。）

Scenario B:
"I highly recommend HBO's Chernobyl. Check it out if you haven't."（强力推荐HBO的切尔诺贝利，没看的话赶紧去看。）
"Of course I've watched it. I did when it came out."（怎么没看，这部剧一出我就【看了】。）

Scenario C:
"We're going to see Joker tonight. Wanna come?"（我们今晚去看小丑，一起来吗？）
"Nah, I've seen it."（不去了，【看过了】。）

In Scenario A, the emphasis is on the speaker's past attempt to watch the show, not the outcome. Nor is the result irreversible. Had he/she decided to try again, they may turn out liking it. So using 看过 suffices.

In Scenario B, the second speaker is clearly annoyed that the other person assumes he/she is out of the loop. Here, 看过 is not strong enough to express the mood and feels as if the sentence lacks a closure.

In Scenario C, the use of 看过了 suggests both a past action (having seen the movie) and how such action impacts the present (that he/she cannot erase their memory and see the movie for the first time again). I can't imagine omitting either 过 or 了 in this case.


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## Skatinginbc

A: 你看過這部電影嗎？
B: 看過。 不怎麼樣。

A: 咱們一起去看「畫皮」。
B: 看過了。==> 「了」影射對現在的影響：不想再看。


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## SimonTsai

The use of 了 is certainly one of the most difficult to explain. @Twangling's analysis seems to be great. But I am not 100% sure that it is correct. Let us see what other members would say. (We have a linguist here.)


Twangling said:


> "Nah, I've seen it."（不去了，【看过了】。）


那我【看過了】，我不去。你們去就好。


> how such action impacts [upon] the present


There 'impact' is too strong a word to use, in my opinion.


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## Lianxin

_过了_两天,她又来了,我只有这样说了:「要认命!


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## albert_laosong

if 过 is used in the middle of a sentence, normally there won't be a 了 following it. for example:
我吃过很多西安的小吃。 我去过中国很多城市。
but no always, for example 我已经去过了中国很多城市，but this sentence would be okay too if removing 了. 

Then if 过 appears at the end of a sentence (normally an answer), then 了 can be used behind it, but not a must in most cases. 
for example:
-你去过西安没有？
-去过 or 去过了, but not 去了。

-你吃过榴莲没有？
-吃过， but not 吃过了 or 吃了。

-吃了没有？(this used to be the most common way of greeting each other some years ago)
-吃了 or 吃过了 but not 吃过。


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## Twangling

Skatinginbc said:


> A: 你看過這部電影嗎？
> 
> B: 看過。 不怎麼樣。
> 
> 
> A: 咱們一起去看「畫皮」。
> 
> B: 看過了。==> 「了」影射對現在的影響：不想再看。



You are much more efficient with words than I am lol.

To jennychiu: so after giving it some more thought, I came up with the following examples. Again it's lengthy. Bear with me.

【Recollection vs. Reaction to a proposal】

A: Have you ever tasted Surstrommings? 你吃过瑞典鲱鱼罐头吗？
B: Yeah. Yuck. 吃过，怪恶心的。

A: Shall we grab some lunch? 一起去吃午饭吗？
B1: Thanks, I've had mine. 我已经吃了/吃过了，谢啦。
B2: I've had my lunch but I am dying for a coffee. Let's go! 我吃饭了/吃过饭了，不过我要买一杯咖啡续命，走吧。

Note the type of questions and the intentions of the answers.

x过 is a common response to "Have you ever…?" as a way of giving a positive answer.

x了, sometimes x过了, is a common response to a proposal. It might suggest a turndown, as if saying "I can't since I've already done that." In the lunch example, B1 is clearly a turndown, but even B2 can be seen in this light, only with an alternative offer attached to it. I wouldn't say it's wrong to reply 吃过 here, just adding 了 seems much more natural.

【Action-oriented vs. Result-oriented】

A: Have you done any experiments in this semester's chemistry class? 你们这学期化学课做过实验吗？
B: 做过。

A: Did you do your homework? 你作业做了吗？
B: 做了。

With 做过 here, the focus is on the action itself. With 做了, there is a sense of "The work is done." I would never reply 做过 to the homework question, because the point is not whether I have sat down to tackle it, but whether I have finished it and am ready to turn it in.

【Be neutral vs. Show some attitude】

A: We seem to be heading in the wrong direction. Have you looked it up in the Google Map? 我们是不是走错路了，你查过地图吗？
B: Yes. We are on the right track.
B1: 查过，是这么走没错。(neutral)
B2: 查过了，这条路是对的。(neutral)
B3: 查了查了，老是问烦不烦。(snappy)

Grammatically speaking, it's correct to drop either 过 or 了 or to keep both here. And the bracketed mood does not come from the use of 过/了 alone. Still, I feel repeating x了 shows more emotion. We often say 好了好了，行了行了 when we've had enough. Repeating x过 on the other hand doesn't have the same effect.

【When followed by an object】

我去过深圳，出差去的。
我上个月出差去了一趟深圳。
我去过深圳了，你交代的事情办妥了。

我查过邮件，客户没有回复。
我查了邮件，客户没有回复。
我查过邮件了，客户没有回复。

When followed by an object, it's usually 过+noun or 了+noun, or putting 了 at the end of the segment. We rarely say x过了 before an object. In such sentences, the action-vs-result rule still applies if you squint your eyes. However, the nuances are so inconspicuous you can see them as interchangeable.

This is by no means comprehensive, but I've tried to cover as many grounds as I can. Hope they make sense to you.


Lianxin said:


> _过了_两天,她又来了,我只有这样说了:「要认命!


This is totally valid, only a little different from the top post. Here 过 is used as a verb. OP wants to know if they can be put side by side when both are used as auxiliaries.


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## stephenlearner

It is hard to explain. I can give some examples here.

榴莲，我吃过。   I have ever eaten the durian.
榴莲，我吃过了。（言外之意，现在不吃了） I have just now eaten the durian. (So, I would not eat it now.)


A-在这儿吃饭吧？
B-我吃过了。（言外之意，现在不吃了）

A-在这儿吃饭吧？
B-我吃了。 (OK, but less natural than "我吃过了"）




1. 他看过圣经吗？ Has he ever read the Bible?
他看过。
2. 他看过了圣经吗？ Has he read the Bible recently (This is what I feel it should mean. )
他看过了。
3. 他看了圣经吗？ Did he read the Bible at a certain point of time?
他看了。

1. 去年，他看过圣经吗？
他看过。
2. 去年，他看过了圣经吗？
他看过了。
3. 去年，他看了圣经吗？ But it's less natural than sentence 1 of this group.
他看了。

1. 去年七月份，他看过圣经吗？
他看过。
2. 去年七月份，他看过了圣经吗？
他看过了。
3. 去年七月份，他看了圣经吗？ It's less natural than sentence 1 of this group.
他看了。


1. 去年七月十二日，他看过圣经吗？
他看过。
2. 去年七月十二日，他看过了圣经吗？
他看过了。
3. 去年七月十二日，他看了圣经吗？
他看了。


1. 去年七月十二日上午，他看过圣经吗？
他看过。
2. 去年七月十二日上午，他看过了圣经吗？
他看过了。
3. 去年七月十二日上午，他看了圣经吗？
他看了。


1. 去年七月，他看过。
2. 去年七月，他看过了。
3. 去年七月，他看了。

1. 去年七月，他看过吗？
2. 去年七月，他看过了吗？
3. 去年七月，他看了吗？

1. 去年七月，他没看过。
2. 去年七月，他没看过了。
3. 去年七月，他不看了。


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## SimonTsai

Twangling said:


> 我吃饭了 [...]，不过我要买一杯咖啡续命，走吧。


I am sure that I am much more inclined to say, '我吃過飯了'; '過' is nearly obligatory.


> I wouldn't say it's wrong to reply 吃过 here; just adding 了 seems much more natural.


甲：「我們等一下要寢聚，吃晚餐。你要來嗎？」
乙：「啊，不用。我剛【吃 (過) 】，你們去就好。」


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> 不用。我剛【吃 (過) 】，你們去就好。


不用，我吃過了，你們去就好。
不用，我吃過，你們去就好。
不用，我剛吃過，你們去就好。 ==> The existence of 剛 makes a difference.


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## SimonTsai

Yes, of course, I know that 剛 makes a difference, but I have trouble spelling out why there is a difference. (In other words, why 我吃過 is wrong whereas 我剛吃過 is accepted? As a native, I have no idea.)

Anyway, I think, and hope, that the original poster has been satisfied with our answers.


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> I have trouble spelling out why there is a difference.


我吃過，我看過，我想過，我X過 ==> They merely convey that 「我」 did X before or had the experience of doing X.  You need a word (e.g., 剛，了) to indicate how that action or experience (過去行動或經驗) is relevant to your present (現在的) mindset if you are providing a reason for rejection of a proposal. 

剛：just now, a little time ago (relevance to the present: 離現在不久)


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## SimonTsai

Marvellous explanation! Ta, @Skatinginbc!


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## stephenlearner

A：吃个苹果吧？
B：我吃过了。 （言外之意，不想再吃了）
B：我吃过。


A：看电影去吧？
B：好啊，看什么？
A：《大黄蜂》
B：我看过了。 （言外之意，不想再看了）
B：我看过。  （同上）


我在想为何前者“我吃过”是不可以的，而后者“我看过"却可以。应该是吃东西是需要重复的，所以不能说我吃过一次以后就不需再吃了（亦即最近做的一次才对现在有影响，以前做过的对现在没有影响）；而看电影不需要重复，看过一遍就没有必要重复看（亦即只要做过一次就可以对现在有影响，不管何时做的）。


A：吃个苹果吧？
B：我吃过了。 （言外之意，不想再吃了）
B：我吃了。（不如上句好。此处“吃了”只能指最近吃了，不能指昨天吃了。）

A：看电影去吧？
B：好啊，看什么？
A：《大黄蜂》
B：我看过了。 （言外之意，不想再看了）
B：我看了。（可以，但不如上句好。此处“看了”可以指最近看了，也可指一年前看了。）


但是如果你开始觉得 “动词+过了" 是表示某件事对现在有影响的最合适的说法，那就错了，马上就有例子反驳你。比如：

钥匙，我丢过了。  （什么意思？现在就不丢了？）
钥匙，我丢过。（以前丢过，对现在没影响。）
钥匙，我丢了。（指最近丢了，所以对现在有影响：我进不了门，需要换锁）


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## Skatinginbc

A: 看電影去吧？
B: 好啊，看甚麼？
A: 大黃蜂。
B: 我看過。緊張刺激，不介意再看一次。
A: 真的不介意 ？
B: 確定!  想當年周潤發的「英雄本色」，我就去電影院看了六回。

My point:
「看過了」比「看過」更有「不想再看」的意味。 後者模稜兩可，得靠語氣或詳細語境來判斷說話者的真正意圖。


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## KK_Tse

jennychiu said:


> "Have you watched that movie?"
> "看过了."
> 
> Isn't that "过" and "了" are mutually exclusive for they are both meant to signal an action that has taken place?
> 
> Or is this just a specific instance of a dialectal use?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jenny


In an utterance like "这部电影我看过了" or "我昨天去医院看过他了", 了functions as a sentence particle (not to be confounded with the verbal suffix 了).

The sentence particle了 indicates that (1) the time zone T associated with the speaker is susceptible of locating a process P, and that (2) P is indeed located at T. In other words, T is supposed/expected to locate P. For example:
1a. 我昨天看到姚明。(I just happened to see him yesterday.)
1b. 我昨天看到姚明了。(I had been trying to meet him for quite sometime.)

2a. - 你去哪？
     - 我要回家。(I want to go home.)
2b. - 你去哪？
      - 我要回家了。(It's time for me to go home.)

Since T is susceptible of locating P, it has a status with respect to P: the "T not locating P" is interpretable as "not yet P"; and the "T locating P" is interpretable as "already P".


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## stephenlearner

Skatinginbc said:


> My point:
> 「看過了」比「看過」更有「不想再看」的意味。 後者模稜兩可，得靠語氣或詳細語境來判斷說話者的真正意圖。


 Agree with you.


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## Twangling

SimonTsai said:


> I am sure that I am much more inclined to say, '我吃過飯了'; '過' is nearly obligatory.
> 
> 甲：「我們等一下要寢聚，吃晚餐。你要來嗎？」
> 乙：「啊，不用。我剛【吃 (過) 】，你們去就好。」


Regarding 过了 or 了 in the first case, I believe it's more of a personal preference. I have heard both a lot and think they are equally valid. In other words, adding or dropping 过 doesn't change the meaning here. However, I would argue 了 is crucial and cannot be dropped easily without altering the meaning.

In your second case, I agree with Skatinginbc's reasoning. 我吃过 alone doesn't make a complete answer. You see, it sounds weird without pairing it with an explicit "no." 我吃过, and? What does it have to do with the question? 我才吃过还不饿，我吃过所以不用了--those sound more natural. On the other hand, by using 了 it is implied you are not hungry/doesn't need to eat at the moment. So one might find 我吃过了 in itself is already a complete answer.


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