# EN: il n'est plus le meme homme depuis qu'elle l'a quitté



## mari06

Bonsoir, j'ai toujours appris que SINCE s'utilisait avec le present perfect. Or 1 exemple me gêne. Pour dire "il n'est plus le meme homme depuis qu'elle l'a quitté", ne doit on pas utiliser du présent simple : He is not the same man since she left him? Ou bien "he has not been the same man since she left him" ? Merci de votre aide, c'est assez confus!


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## Transfer_02

I think the rule you were taught is true when "since" is followed by a date/time.

Both the translations you give sound good to me (at least in spoken English, maybe the present perfect would be more "correct" in written text).


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## jierbe31

mari06 said:


> Bonsoir, j'ai toujours appris que SINCE s'utilisait avec le present perfect. Or 1 exemple me gêne. Pour dire "il n'est plus le meme homme depuis qu'elle l'a quitté", ne doit on pas utiliser du présent simple : He is not the same man since she left him? Ou bien "he has not been the same man since she left him" ? Merci de votre aide, c'est assez confus!



Bonsoir,

Le fait de dire " il n'est plus le même homme " implique forcément un prolongement de l'état dans le moment présent, état qui a commencé quand elle l'a quitté.
Donc, c'est bien le present perfect qui s'impose.
Quant au simple past avec since, il est logique lui aussi puisque le moment où elle l'a quitté est terminé et daté pour lui. L'événement " she left him " peut être assimilé à une date, un moment précis.
Est-ce plus clair ?


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## mari06

Merci, donc si je dis également "nobody recognizes him since he broke up with her", "recognizes" est juste? Le present perfect n'est pas obligatoire? Surement parce que ce n'est pas une action qui s'est étalée dans le temps. Merci de votre reponse.

Donc vous diriez "he hasn't been the same man since she left him" et non "he isn't the same man since she left him"; et également "nobody has recognized him since she left him" et non "nobody reconizes him since she left him"? Pourtant, malgré la règle, quelque chose me semble étrange dans ces deux cas de figure  merci de m'éclairer!!!


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## Transfer_02

Certainly the use of the present tense in this kind of a since-clause is common in spoken English.


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## mari06

So if you had to write those sentences, like in a propper essay, you would use the present perfect in both of them, right?

oops "proper" I mean


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## Transfer_02

Might depend on whether it is reported speech or not.  

But for example:

The house is in a state of disrepair since the last owners moved out.  

The house has been in a state of disrepair since the last owners moved out.  

But native English speakers say both (in spoken English).


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## mari06

D'accord, je saisis bien cette nuance, mais j'étais gênée par l'utilisation du present perfect avec le verbe "recognize" par exemple, car il me semble difficile d'insister sue la durée du fait (avec le present perfect) étant donné le sens du mot "reconnaître". Merci de votre aide!


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## Transfer_02

I'm not sure "recognize" (verb) is the best choice here.

On ne le reconnaît plus (in French)
He is unrecognisable since she left him.


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## mari06

Ok thanks, it sounds better  But would you write this or is "he has been unrecognisable since she left him" better? Thanks so much


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## WordRef1

I would say that "The house is in a state of disrepair since the last owners moved out." is technically wrong (even if people often speak that way) because it implies (or could imply) that the house is in a state of disrepair _because _the last owners moved out, rather than just temporally speaking, afterward. Thus it must be "The house has been in a state of disrepair since the last owners moved out."

 "he has been unrecognizable since she left him" That would work or to use the previous structure: "no one has been able to recognize him since she left him" _has been able_ seems to me to speak more to their ability to relate to him, rather than the act of recognizing him as if they past on the street and they didn't know it was him, as one might feel from  "nobody has recognized him since she left him".

Of course, those are technicalities. If one is involving in hearing or reading about some situation where there is a lot of context, it will probably be easier to figure out what is meant; thus, context takes care of the doubt.


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## mari06

And what about "he is unrecognizable since she left him"? Is it grammatically wrong or would it only be used in spoken English? Is "He has been" more correct in written English? Does it change the meaning?


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## jann

I don't think I would say "He is unrecognizable since she left him" unless I mispoke -- which happens all the time, actually, even for native speakers.   Although I think you can hear people say this, I believe it is grammatically incorrect, and that (therefore) you should avoid it in writing (and speaking too, if you can).  The meaning would be the same as any of the grammatically correct versions:

He has been unrecognizable since she left him.
He's unrecognizable... and has been since she left him.
He has not been the same (man) since she left him.

By the very nature of the tense, using the present perfect means that he _is still, currently, at present _unrecognizable.  The word "since" in the sentence indicates that this unrecognizable state began in the past, so we should not use the present tense tell about it.  This is why we need the present perfect: it is for situations that began in the past and continue to be relevant in the present.


> j'étais gênée par l'utilisation du present perfect avec le verbe "recognize" par exemple, car il me semble difficile d'insister sue la durée du fait (avec le present perfect) étant donné le sens du mot "reconnaître"


This is an excellent observation -- and it is exactly the reason that we would not use "to recognize" in this sentence, substituting instead "to be unrecognizable" or something of equivalent meaning.


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## mari06

This helps a lot  Thank you very much


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## WordRef1

jann said:


> ...unless I mispoke -- which happens all the time, actually, even for native speakers....


 Je suis d'accord. Case in point 





> not use the present tense tell about it.


 We shouldn't completely forget that people accidentally make mistakes all the time (often).


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