# KSA / توقيت مكة المكرمة



## Phosphorus

AsSalaamu 3alaykum,

It is has been a while that I have this question in my mind. In MBC channels when they want to announce their programs launching time, they use "key es ey", which I understand as "KSA" ~ "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia". While Aljazeera, for example, always uses "توقیت مکه المکرمه". Indeed what Aljazeera employes does make sense, but I do not understand how come they, in MBC, use "KSA" (an originally English term) for "سعودیه" or "مکه المکرمه"?

I want to know whether it is just an awkward MBC coinage or it is a brand new borrowing probably widespread among the youth over the web?

Thanks in advance.


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## fdb

Strictly speaking, Saudi time is GMT + 3, while Makkah time is the actual local time at Makka, traditionally measured as hours and minutes after sunset.


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## Phosphorus

Thank you for your reply. I see, I was given to think that the established Saudi time is the same as that of Makkah.

Do you have any idea how come they happen to use "KSA" for "(Mamlakat as)Sa3udiyyah" in Arabic? It sounds awkward to me.


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## إسكندراني

fdb said:


> Makkah time is the actual local time at Makka, traditionally measured as hours and minutes after sunset.


?!
How exactly do you propose that one measures time in hours and minutes after sunset? So the time is midnight at sunset?

When you say KSA, I would say MBC, it's one of that channel's quirks. I'd be surprised if anyone used it really.

The capital of Saudi Arabia is Riyadh. I think most channels would use بتوقيت المملكة or بتوقيت السعودية - although I seem to remembering another Khaliji channel (Abu Dhabi? Dubai?) using KSA. It seems a bit snobby/pretentious. But I guess people from the GCC can give you their definitive answer.


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## Phosphorus

I see, thanks for your contribution Iskandaraanii.


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## Schem

Sorry, what exactly is the question?


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## fdb

إسكندراني said:


> ?!
> How exactly do you propose that one measures time in hours and minutes after sunset?



In traditional Islamic societies the civil day begins at sunset and the prayer times are expressed in hours after sunset, not hours from midnight.


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## WadiH

fdb said:


> In traditional Islamic societies the civil day begins at sunset and the prayer times are expressed in hours after sunset, not hours from midnight.



Yes but that's not called "Makkah time", it's called "sunset time" (توقيت غروبي).  You had to reset your clock to 12 at sunset everyday to use this system (it was still used here until a couple of generations ago).

When Aljazeera say "Makkah time" they just mean the time zone that includes Saudi Arabia and other neighboring countries, but they know some people will resent that a pan-Arab channel uses "Saudi time" or "Iraqi time" or "Syrian time," etc. so they opted to use a name that no one can argue with ("Makkah time").


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## Phosphorus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> so they opted to use a name that no one can argue with ("Makkah time").



Do you have any idea whatever for they use "KSA" (and English abbreviation) for "سعودیه", and since when such an employment has emerged?


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## إسكندراني

Phosphorus said:


> Do you have any idea whatever for they use "KSA" (and English abbreviation) for "سعودیه", and since when such an employment has emerged?


It's probably because they need a time which means more to Arabs than GMT, so they say X:XX GMT - X:XX KSA - just so it matches.


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## WadiH

Phosphorus said:


> Do you have any idea whatever for they use "KSA" (and English abbreviation) for "سعودیه", and since when such an employment has emerged?



I wasn't even aware that it was in Arabic before your posting. Nobody ever says "KSA" in Arabic in real life (though the abbreviation is of course commonly used in English).


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## Phosphorus

إسكندراني said:


> It's probably because they need a time which means more to Arabs than GMT, so they say X:XX GMT - X:XX KSA - just so it matches.



It is rational. But what is irrational to me is using "KSA" instead of "سعودیه"! I think in Arabic they would refer to GMT as غرینیتش or something rather than "جی ام تی", am I right?


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## Phosphorus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> I wasn't even aware that it was in Arabic before your posting. Nobody ever says "KSA" in Arabic in real life (though the abbreviation is of course commonly used in English).



I see. MBC channels, in Arabic, use it unexceptionally. I had the feeling that in the Arabic on street they do not say "KSA" ever, but I wondered based on what rationale MBC folk have come up with the idea of using an English term for referring to the country which is considered as the cradle of Islam!? My wondering gets increased whenever I hear Aljazeera using "bitawqiit Makkatalmukarrama"-just feeling like MBC is unconsciously ushering into the sense of "takriim" towards Mecca being put away!


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## إسكندراني

It's a couple of the satellite channels being pretentious. They speak Arabic in a very convoluted way to seem 'above' the average viewer. Quite scandalous in my opinion.

And GMT is indeed referred to as 'grinitsh'.


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## Phosphorus

إسكندراني said:


> It's a couple of the satellite channels being pretentious. They speak Arabic in a very convoluted way to seem 'above' the average viewer. Quite scandalous in my opinion.



I see. Thank you, I think I can picture how it looks like now.


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## WadiH

Phosphorus said:


> I see. MBC channels, in Arabic, use it unexceptionally. I had the feeling that in the Arabic on street they do not say "KSA" ever, but I wondered based on what rationale MBC folk have come up with the idea of using an English term for referring to the country which is considered as the cradle of Islam!? My wondering gets increased whenever I hear Aljazeera using "bitawqiit Makkatalmukarrama"-just feeling like MBC is unconsciously ushering into the sense of "takriim" towards Mecca being put away!



You're over-analyzing.  MBC uses "KSA" as an abbreviation for the time zone, not the country itself (a la "GMT", "BST", etc.).  MBC is Saud-owned while Aljazeera is owned by Qatar with the aim of competing with Saudi-owned media so the use of "Makkah time" by Aljazeera is understandable.


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## Phosphorus

Wadi Hanifa said:


> You're over-analyzing.  MBC uses "KSA" as an abbreviation for the time zone, not the country itself (a la "GMT", "BST", etc.).  MBC is Saud-owned while Aljazeera is owned by Qatar with the aim of competing with Saudi-owned media so the use of "Makkah time" by Aljazeera is understandable.



Well I think the way you read it is kind of underestimation. Namely it is not simply justifiable by referring it to the timezone issues or the like. Surely in Arabic there are "مملکه السعودیه" or "سعودیه" in order to say not "KSA", in a million year. But Iskandaraani's impressions sound plausible-a pretentious spirit in MBC.

P.S. I recently watched abroad Persian channel interviewing the youngest sister of the Saudi Malik. There she affirmed that his reigning elder brother wishes for _cultural_ reform and change among his people, though many may actually put obstacles on his way. I am not sure about the precise number of MBC channels viewers, but they are certainly one of the most popular Arab media in the world. So having "کی اس ای" instead of "مکه المکرمه" or "سعودیه" is not a cultural change, however a slight one, in your opinion?


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## cherine

Dear all,

This discussion, though interesting and informative, is outside the scope of this language forum because it's more about culture, politics, tv channels.
In order not to waste all your valuable contributions, we'll just close the thread instead of deleting it.

Regards,
Cherine
Moderator


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