# Codice fiscale



## alfio

Salve! 
Come si dice in inglese "codice fiscale"?
Tax code? Boh.


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## Alfry

alfio said:
			
		

> Salve!
> Come si dice in inglese "codice fiscale"?
> Tax code? Boh.


 
fiscal code
taxpayer's code (number)


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## gva

In the US, the equivalent role to the Italian "Codice Fiscale" is played by the Social Security Number.  It is an identifier unique to each person that is used in all manners of official and not-so-official documents.

The main difference between the two is that the Codice Fiscale can be derived through a deterministic algorithm from a person's name and his/her date and place of birth.  There is nothing secret about the Codice Fiscale, and people distribute it freely in lieu of their name.  Indeed, it is, essentially, a name equivalent that is guaranteed to be unique.

By contrast, especially in recent years, people try to keep their SSN confidential.  You only give it out when you have to, and the organizations that handle people's SSNs treat them as confidential information.  This is because a person's SSN is the most useful piece of information for would-be identity thieves, and identity theft has become a big problem in recent years.

I have frequently wondered why the widespread access to people's Codici Fiscali in Italy does not seem to create a problem with identity theft.


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## Nocciolina

In the UK codice fiscale sarebbe tax code. The Social Security Number (SSN) would be National Insurance number (NI). In the UK this is different to your tax code. Your tax code determines the amount of tax you will pay based on your income and circumstances.


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## gossip

Come si potrebbe tradurre? Devo aprire la partita Iva per una società
Grazie


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## Jana337

gossip said:
			
		

> Come si potrebbe tradurre? Devo aprire la partita Iva per una società
> Grazie


I would say "VAT identification number". I assume that codice fiscale is irrelevant for other taxes. If not, perhaps "tax identification number". Click.

Jana


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## Dushnyoni

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I would say "VAT identification number". I assume that codice fiscale is irrelevant for other taxes. If not, perhaps "tax identification number". Click.
> 
> Jana


 
Codice fiscale = Fiscal code
Partita IVA = VAT number


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## Tatzingo

Si. VAT = IVA.

Value Added Tax.

Tatz.


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## Jana337

Dushnyoni said:
			
		

> Codice fiscale = Fiscal code
> Partita IVA = VAT number


Quoting Elisa from the other thread:


> However, in this case I think that it is related to a Company and in Italy also companies have their own "codice fiscale" as well as "partita iva" (P.I.) that is another code for taxes purposes. Usually the two coincide.


So I thought one could use one name for both. 

Jana


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## Dushnyoni

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Quoting Elisa from the other thread:
> 
> So I thought one could use one name for both.
> 
> Jana


Not really.


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## MAVERIK

Not always "codice fiscale" and "partita I.V.A" coincide. For lots corporations they are different from each other .


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## Mack the Knife

Usually in Italy company VAT number and Fiscal Code *do not *coincide


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## Anita413

Ciao a tutti,
can you explain to me
what "codice fiscali" is? I came across it filling in a questionnaire.


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## cas29

It is a fiscal code.  A number, or combination of numbers and letters which are specifically linked to one specific person (or company sometimes) for taxation identification purposes.


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## TimLA

cas29 said:


> It is a fiscal code. A number, or combination of numbers and letters which are specifically linked to one specific person (or company sometimes) for taxation identification purposes.


 
Would this be an analog of our "Social Security Number" or "Tax ID Number" for a corporation?
Do Italians carry a "fiscal code" card?


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## fran06

TimLA said:


> Would this be an analog of our "Social Security Number"? Yes!
> Do Italians carry a "fiscal code" card?Yes!


 

It's like the national insurance number in England.


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## cas29

Yes Tim.  In Canada it would be the Social Insurance Number - almost exactly the same thing.  And yes, we (even foreigners) get a card to carry.  It is green and white.

It is absolutely the EASIEST piece of Italian documentation to get -- because as soon as you have it you can be taxed!


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## TimLA

cas29 said:


> Yes Tim. In Canada it would be the Social Insurance Number - almost exactly the same thing. And yes, we (even foreigners) get a card to carry. It is green and white.
> 
> It is absolutely the EASIEST piece of Italian documentation to get -- because as soon as you have it you can be taxed!



It is good to know that there is consistency in the universe.
ANY government on earth will magically become "efficient" when it comes to the harvest of money.

So, back on thread -
So if I see "Codice Fiscale" there is no other way that it can be interpreted?


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## Henry63a

Anita413 said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> can you explain to me
> what "codice fiscale" is? I came across it filling in a questionnaire.


If you wish to know what your '_codice fiscale_' would be, check here.
You can also pretend to be someone else!
Here you can learn how it's computed.


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## Gioppino

Anita413 said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> can you explain to me
> what "codice fiscali" is? I came across it filling in a questionnaire.



Codice Fiscale is the Tax identification Number or Tax ID and it is a char code (letters and numbers).


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## Sandwich

Hi, 
"partita IVA" is a code number you personally require to start every trading, industrial or professional activity and deals with taxes; 
"fiscal code" is a code automatically assigned to everyone from his/her birthday, composed of numbers and letters, which identifies a person by surname, name, date of birth, residence region and state.


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## sylvio dante

Sandwich said:


> Hi,
> "partita IVA" is a code number you personally require to start every trading, industrial or professional activity and deals with taxes;
> "fiscal code" is a code automatically assigned to everyone from his/her birthday, composed of numbers and letters, which identifies a person by surname, name, date of birth, residence region and state.


I live in the US. I am ordering something from an Italian website so I left this blank. Will I have trouble getting my merchandise?


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## Il Cavaliere Canadese

By translating "codice fiscale" into "tax number" in Canada or the U.S.(as the discussion forum indicates), one is referring to a "social insurance number." 

Giving out such information to anyone is highly dangerous since this is how i.d. theft occurs.

Consequently, I am wondering if another definition in the context of a financial transaction between a university and a student could be "bank account number"?


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## Salegrosso

_Codice fiscale_ has only one meaning in Italian, as it has been well explained above. 
_Codice fiscale_ can never be translated as _bank account number,_ just because they are two completely different codes. 
If I misunderstood your question, I apologise...


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## tsoapm

Nocciolina said:


> Your tax code determines the amount of tax you will pay based on your income and circumstances.


 It’s not an ID of any kind. So in reality:





Nocciolina said:


> In the UK codice fiscale sarebbe tax code.


…using just tax code would actually be misleading, but it’s so well established a translation that I feel heretical just typing that.


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## Einstein

I often translate the Italian _codice fiscale_ as Tax ID no.

The tax code is certainly not the same thing, as you rightly say, Mark. I didn't know this wrong translation was so well established!
I wouldn't know how to translate the British tax code into Italian; something like _codice d'imposta_, but I don't think it would mean anything.


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## chipulukusu

Einstein said:


> I wouldn't know how to translate the British tax code into Italian



I wouldn't know either, as there is nothing comparable in Italy. Deduction are made by employers according to the expected yearly income. If you change job in the course of the year you are adviced to tell the new employer how much income you have already accrued so far. Otherwise, the new employer will make deductions based on what you are earning from the new job (probably on a lower tax bracket than due), leaving you with the chance of paying a huge balance when passing the next tax return.
In addition, there is a fixed amount of income from employment that is tax exempt, and this amount is the same for everybody. If you have additional sources of income you may have to pay taxes on the originally tax exempt income from employment once you pass your tax return.


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## curiosone

I have both a _Social Security numbe_r and a _Codice Fiscale _(I don't have a _partita IVA)_.  I don't give out either, unless required.  However I'd also never write my _SS no_. when asked for a _Codice Fiscale_ or vice-versa (e.g. an on-line purchase for an Italian company), as it wouldn't be acceptable (it wouldn' be the correct combination, as an _S.S. no._ consists of numbers, and a _C.F._ is a mixture of letters and numbers).  I think that, if a firm sells internationally, it wouldn't/couldn't require a _codice fiscale _for foreign customers.  It is more likely that they'd request a VAT number (or partita IVA, which is the same thing).  

I found this rather useful link, explaining what a VAT number is (since it's a European invention): http://traveltips.usatoday.com/vat-number-61927.html


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## london calling

We got into a discussion as to how to say 'codice fiscale' in the 'False Friends' thread here.


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## tsoapm

Yes; we're missing "main translations" for them, probably because they don't really exist, but if anyone want to have a stab I guess they can do it here. I like your proposal of "taxpayer identification number", @london calling , but I have some reservations about it. I’d go with "code" since it also contains letters (I know, National Insurance Number, but that winds me up too ) and, as far as I know, it doesn't actually correspond to an existing number/code, does it?

"Italian tax ID code" seems like the closest you can get to me.


sorry66 said:


> I think it's called 'Unique taxpayer reference'.


Sounds like a good call, but I'm not sure it's close enough.





> The Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) is only issued by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) when you, or your client, have registered for Self Assessment.


Everyone seems to have a codice fiscale; I have dim memories of queueing for mine, but I'm a bog-standard company employee.


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## london calling

tsoapm said:


> Yes; we're missing "main translations" for them, probably because they don't really exist, but if anyone want to have a stab I guess they can do it here. I like your proposal of "taxpayer identification number", @london calling , but I have some reservations about it. I’d go with "code" since it also contains letters (I know, National Insurance Number, but that winds me up too ) and, as far as I know, it doesn't actually correspond to an existing number/code, does it?
> 
> "Italian tax ID code" seems like the closest you can get to me.


Yes, _Taxpayer ID Code/Italian Tax ID code_ sound about right, as I have also come to the conclusion that we have no direct equivalent and that we must therefore be content with a translation.

When you say _it doesn't actually correspond to an existing number/code_, do you mean the Italian CF? Sorry, being a bit thick this morning....


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## tsoapm

I mean there isn’t actually a thing that goes by the name of "taxpayer identification number" in the UK, is there? I don’t think there was when I left.


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## london calling

tsoapm said:


> I mean there isn’t actually a thing that goes by the name of "taxpayer identification number" in the UK, is there? I don’t think there was when I left.


No, there isn't, you're quite right. In any case, I think you and I agree: we're going to have to use a translation.


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## sorry66

I haven't chosen 'unique taxpayer reference'  - this is the official term. Yes, it's for self-assessment but it's also for companies. Otherwise, as a paid employee, you have your PAYE number -see below.

*All of these are used in combination with your NI number*


sorry66 said:


> if you're an employee (the PAYE number) will change with the employer. Companies have a Company Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR). It's the closest equivalent I could come up with.



Why does 'National Insurance number' wind you up, tsoapm? It's a unique number (by the way it's a combination of letters and numbers - although that's irrelevant) and you need it for work and tax.


sorry66 said:


> The number you need for tax/work is the* NI (National Insurance) number* - that doesn't change - it's for life.
> 
> The references used by HM Customs & Revenue is as I indicated and that can change during your life.
> *'Tax identification number' is the general term used by the EU and the EC.*



The term 'tax identification number' is not official.

The closest equivalent would be to say 'your current taxpayer reference PAYE or UTR plus you NI reference' which, of course, is a bit of a mouthful!

I'd go for an unofficial translation as follows:


london calling said:


> Taxpayer ID Code/Italian Tax ID code


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## tsoapm

Numbers don’t have letters in them! (unless you’re using hex or some other system with a base higher than 10)


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## sorry66

Yes! but it's called a 'number' even though it isn't!


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## tsoapm

And this winds me up.


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## sorry66

I guess 'PIN number' winds you up too!


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