# Madaya ka kaya



## AskLang

Hi! again,

I wonder how this tagalog expression could be translated into English:

Madaya ka kaya.

Many thanks
AskLang


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## niernier

AskLang said:


> Hi! again,
> 
> I wonder how this tagalog expression could be translated into English:
> 
> Madaya ka kaya.
> 
> Many thanks
> AskLang




That I think is "Madaya ka *kasi.*" ('Coz you are a cheater/'Coz you cheated.)

Do Tagalogs say 'Madaya ka kaya' OR 'Madaya ka kasi' ?  "Madaya ka kaya" appears in my dialectal tongue. If there's a clause following, *kaya* translates to "*that is why*"

Madaya ka kaya ayoko sa'yo.
(You are a cheater that's why I don't like you.)


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## DotterKat

The lines immediately preceding *"Madaya ka kaya"* would be helpful to provide more context. 
On its own, I would suggest any of the following:

What if I cheated you?
What if I pulled one over you?
What if I played a trick on you?

If any of the above are correct, the original text could be better said as " Eh kung dayain kaya kita?"
In any case, as an isolated phrase "madaya ka kaya"  to me sounds like a slightly mischievous comment one might say to a friend while playing a game, for instance. It is not said seriously and  not meant to imply doing actual harm to another person.

Another way of reading it might be:

Are you a cheater?
What if you were a cheater?

Then again, the original text should have been "Madaya ka ba?"

As I said, more context is needed to establish the real meaning of the phrase.

Gary


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## AskLang

Thanks niernier. Don't you think "kaya" in this kind of context reflects a different meaning? 
Like it does when used in sentences like:

Hindi kaya.


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## niernier

AskLang said:


> Thanks niernier. Don't you think "kaya" in this kind of context reflects a different meaning?
> Like it does when used in sentences like:
> 
> Hindi kaya.




How did you find this phrase? Can you give us more context?

Any Tagalog speaker, please correct me if I am wrong. I strongly believe this does not appear in Tagalog, I mean a Tagalog speaker in any circumstances will not say 'Madaya ka kaya'. Rather he would say:

Ang daya mo kasi! ( Coz you cheated/Coz you are a cheater!)
Madaya ka kasi! (Same as above)
Madaya ka! ( You are a cheater!)
Ang daya mo talaga! ( You are a real cheater!)
Madaya ka talaga! (Same as above)



The uttered phrase could be more like this:

Madaya ka! Kaya pala lagi kang panalo!
You are a cheater! So that's why you are always winning!


Here's another usage of kaya. 

kaya when appears on questions such as:

Sino *kaya *ang sunod na presidente ng Pilipinas? = *I wonder* who's the next president of the Philippines?
Bakit *kaya *wala nang tao. = *I wonder* why there are no more people here.
Ano *kaya *ang meaning ng.. *I wonder* what is the meaning of..


Others please add what you can say about 'kaya' such as '*hindi kaya*' and '*madaya ka kaya*'


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## niernier

After reading DotterKat's post, I thought for the last time and it came to me that the phrase "Madaya ka kaya" makes sense only if it is a question and not a statement.


Thus, *Madaya ka kaya?* means *I wonder if you can be cheated?*

This one is a better way to say the idea.

*Madaya kaya kita? I wonder if I can cheat you?*


Because it ended with a period, I read it just like a statement with a final glottal stop on _kaya _so to me it sounded like some dialect. But it just occurred to me that the phrase is a question, an inquiry asking "I wonder if you can be cheated?" I'm so sorry, I'm too stupid I did not realize that before.


I also based my translation from my previous post.




niernier said:


> kaya when appears on questions such as:
> 
> Sino *kaya *ang sunod na presidente ng Pilipinas? = *I wonder* who's the next president of the Philippines?
> Bakit *kaya *wala nang tao. = *I wonder* why there are no more people here.
> Ano *kaya *ang meaning ng.. *I wonder* what is the meaning of..


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## AskLang

Thanks to you both for the explanations. I fully understand such a sentence could
be understood to mean the way they do in the examples that you gave. But this particular use of "kaya" is different.

Take this for an example:

A: Ang tatamis ng mga mangga na binili ni Anthony. 
B: Hindi kaya! (Of course not!)

I find this to be the equivalent of this phrase in English. I wonder how the original phrase -Madaya ka kaya!- in question 
is said in English.

However, DotterKat is right to comment that it is not said seriously and not meant to imply doing actual harm to another person.
This is because the word "kaya" softens the expression of any word in the context.


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## niernier

I believe *"Madaya ka kaya?" *is a question. It is an inquiry to the listener in which I suppose kaya translates to "I wonder" I also think it could be a rhetorical question that tells the listener to be extra cautious or watchful so that he cannot be cheated. I made another revision on post # 6. Thank you for reading.

*Hindi kaya!* ends with an exclamation or let's say a period. It is not a question. Thus, it is a different case.


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## niernier

I hope this gives you a better grasp of the subject.

Let's take on some examples.
In Tagalog, 
"I wonder if *they* can cheat you" is "Madaya ka kaya *nila*?"
"I wonder if *he* can cheat you" is "Madaya ka kaya *niya*?"
"I wonder if *that person* can cheat you" is "Madaya ka kaya ng* taong 'yun*?"
"I wonder if *I* can cheat *you*" is "Madaya kaya *kita*?"




AskLang said:


> A: Ang tatamis ng mga mangga na binili ni Anthony.
> B: Hindi kaya! (Of course not!)
> 
> However, DotterKat is right to comment that it is not said seriously and not meant to imply doing actual harm to another person.
> This is because the word "kaya" softens the expression of any word in the context.



On the expression, "Hindi kaya!", "kaya" does not carry any meaning here and like what you said, it was used to soften a rather startling remark.


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## AskLang

Thanks again, niernier. 

"Kaya" for sure is used as an expression of doubt. But what if it was used as a remark as in the following example -

A: Oh ano, naunahan pa kitang matapos kumain.
B: Madaya ka kaya. Eh hindi mo pa naman kinakain yang dessert mo oh.

Although I must admit that the use of "kaya" in this sense has only popularized lately. 

Many thanks,
AskLang


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## niernier

I see. I arrived at a different interpretation because I read the phrase with different stress and intonation.  I translated it to my own dialect and I think I know what you mean. (It's the only way how I can understand this context. Tagalog and other Philippine languages share the same particles but anyway this off the topic.)

Here is a yet another usage of 'kaya'
*It is a marker which signifies that you insist on the fact that the person you are conversing with is wrong and you are right.*


A: Oh ano, naunahan pa kitang matapos kumain. 
 B:* Madaya ka kaya*. Eh hindi mo pa naman kinakain yang dessert mo oh.
(With that, Person B insists that person A is mistaken when he said that he finished his meal first.)


A: Ang tatamis ng mga mangga na binili ni Anthony. 
 B: *Hindi kaya!* (Of course not!) That is, he is insisting that the mangoes bought by Anthony are not sweet.


Person A. *May pasok daw bukas. *(I heard there are classes/work tomorrow.)
Person B. *Wala kaya!*  (Wala means "None" and "Wala kaya!" would mean Person B is strongly insisting there are no classes tomorrow as opposed to what Person A said.)


I can't think of any other nuance. Tell me if you agree with what I understand.


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## AskLang

Yup, niernier.. That's it.. thanks you.


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## mataripis

The usage of "Kaya'" is wrong.It should be "Kasi" or "Papaano" or "Talaga" or "Sadyang". 1.) Madaya ka kasi. 2.) Papaano madaya ka.  3.) Madaya ka talaga. 4.) sadyang madaya ka.    The word "Kaya" in this sentence is misused by tagalog speakers who are not really Tagalog in ethnicity.usually from bisayan folks. when i heard the sentence" madaya ka kaya" ,something is lacking. nabibitin ako sa ganyang mga pangungusap ,parang papansin lang sa mg tao.. so pls. stop using "kaya" in that manner.


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## mataripis

The correct use of "Kaya'" in Tagalog;  "Kaya'" means "It is the reason" or " The reason why". This word has glotall stop, removing ' in this word will give another meaning which is "Can"/I can" . Here  are the sample sentences using kaya' and kaya (kayah).  1.) There are many foreign words in tagalog ,it is the reason why some foreigners can easily understand this language.(Maraming dayuhang salita sa Tagalog kaya' madaling maunawaan ito ng ibang dayuhan.)  2.) The reason why my spanish friend cannot understand you is because you are speaking a form of Italian dialect.(Kaya' naman pala hindi ka maunawaan ng kaibigan kong espanyol ay sa dahilang nangungusap ka sa paraan ng dialekto ng Italyano!) 3.) They said they can do it in one week.(Sabi nila, kaya nilang magawa iyon sa loob ng isang linggo.)


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