# My favorite animal is the dog/My favorite food is hamburgers



## Khalo

As far as I have it:

My favorite animal is the lion.
My favorite animal is lions.

But:

My favorite food is the hamburger.
My favorite food is hamburgers.

This is how I would use it, but I'm curious to why you would use the plural for hamburgers and not the singular.


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## Thomas Tompion

Has someone told you that you can't use the singular for hamburgers, Khalo?  It doesn't seem totally out of the question to me, though it makes them sound rather grand.  You can certainly say, for instance, _my favourite food is dover sole_, and I think you could say _my favourite food is a hamburger_.


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## brian

It's not a matter of a different construction, in my opinion, but rather a peculiarity of the words/concepts "food" and "hamburger."

"Animal" is clearly singular and so requires a singular type of animal: _My favorite animal_ (sing.) _is the lion_ (sing.).

"Food," however, is not so clearly singular because it depends on the food. Usually, what is meant is "dish" or "plate" or "cuisine," all of which usually take the singular, just like "animal":

_My favorite food is pizza._ (not _pizza*s*_)
_My favorite food is fried chicken._ (not _fried chicken*s*_)

This is because the "dish" or "plate" consists of just a pizza, or just a chicken (or a part of a chicken), and usually not multiple pizzas or chickens.

Now, as to why "hamburger" is not considered a dish like pizza is difficult to explain, but that's how it is.  It's the same reason why you say:

_We're having pizza for dinner. _(not _pizza*s*_)
BUT _We're having hamburger*s* for dinner._

So again, it deals with the peculiarity of "food" being either a singular dish or a countable thing... sometimes it's hard to explain why a type of food is one or the other. But in any case, the construction is the same in that both "animal" and "food" _usually_ require a singular noun ("lion," "pizza," "steak"), but there are exceptions ("hamburger*s*," and obviously plural foods, "french fries," "chips").


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## Khalo

Thomas Tompion said:


> Has someone told you that you can't use the singular for hamburgers, Khalo?  It doesn't seem totally out of the question to me, though it makes them sound rather grand.  You can certainly say, for instance, _my favourite food is dover sole_, and I think you could say _my favourite food is a hamburger_.



Sure, if my favourite food were Dover soles, it would be rather disgusting. 

Yes, I guess you could say _my favourite food is a hamburger, _but would you?

I would say my favourite food is pancakes,
not my favourite food is a pancake.

It is rather silly of me - but I'm more interested in how to explain that the plural form of 'lions' is incorrect, but it is correct with 'hamburgers'.


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## Matching Mole

I see what Thomas means by "my favourite food is hamburger" making the food sound rather grand, but nevertheless, I see no problem with it, and there are certainly enough examples of its use on the web. On the other hand, treating "hamburgers" somehow as an uncountable (so that it agrees with food) seems a natural compromise adopted by a number of speakers, and is preferable to "my favourite food are..".

For correctness, I would say "hamburger", although, fortunately it is not a sentiment that I have cause to express.


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## brian

Again, I think it's a peculiarity with the word "hamburger" and the entire concept of "food"/dishes.

You would _think_ that you say "I like pancake*s*" because you usually eat more than one in a serving, and you say "I like steak" because you usually eat only one in a serving, but "I like hamburger*s*" seems to defy this logic since you usually eat only one hamburger in a serving, just like with steak.

It's peculiar indeed.


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## Khalo

Thanks brian8733 - That makes a great deal of sense to me.


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## kitenok

As a side note, in AE, _hamburger_ as an uncountable singular noun would likely be understood to mean a quantity of ground beef, as in "_Go to the store and buy a pound of hamburger_." "_My favorite food is hamburger_" would, to me, mean that your favorite food is ground beef in general, regardless of whether or not it is fried up and made into a sandwich. 

_Hamburger _as a countable noun is, I think, an abbreviation for _hamburger sandwich _(they are still referred to this way sometimes). It seems to me that the noun _sandwich_ behaves in something like the same way:

My favorite food is tuna sandwich. 
My favorite food is tuna sandwiches.  (probably more likely in AE)
My favorite food is a tuna sandwich.  (plausible in AE, more pleasing to those who seek consistency in grammatical number)


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## brian

I've never understood this countable vs. uncountable stuff. Why do we say _My favorite food is steak_ and not _steak*s*_, even though _steak_ is countable? _He can eat 3 steak*s* in one sitting._

Also: _They have the best steak/steak*s* in town._ (Both equally correct and idiomatic to me.)

I do agree that _hamburger_ in the singular makes me think purely of the ground beef, but _steak_ in the singular does not really make me think of _steak meat_ (plus, different _steaks_ are made from different cuts of the animal, so there is no one _steak meat_); it merely makes me think of a steak.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

The choice of singular or plural for the verb depends on the word that serves as the subject.

You would say "My favorite food is pancakes", but "Pancakes are my favorte food".

Similarly, you could say "the source of the majority of the damage in my garden is rabbits", but "rabbits are the source of the majority of the damage in my garden."


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## brian

But the question is not about the verb.. it's always "is" since the question is about "My favorite food is..."

The question is about the following noun, singular vs. plural.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

brian8733 said:


> The question is about the following noun, singular vs. plural.


The reason it is a question is that the verb is singular; there is a disagreement between the number of the verb and the following noun.  My point is that what is most important is the agreement between the subject and the verb; the following noun can then be either singular or plural.


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## brian

But that's not true. There is usually no choice; it cannot be "either...or," but rather one and only one:

_My favorite food is pizza. 
My favorite food is pizza*s*. 

_Maybe I'm missing your point...


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## GreenWhiteBlue

brian8733 said:


> But that's not true. There is usually no choice; it cannot be "either...or," but rather one and only one:
> 
> _My favorite food is pizza. _
> _My favorite food is pizza*s*. _
> 
> Maybe I'm missing your point...


 
You are indeed missing my point.  I meant that it makes no difference whether the following noun is singular or plural; the number of the verb is determined by the subject, and not by the following noun.  The following noun does not have to agree in number with the verb, which is why we can say "My favorite food is hamburgers" (which was the original question), rather than being compelled to make everying in the sentence singular.


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## brian

Right, but what's the point in even pointing that out when the original question dealt not with "is" but rather with "(the) hamburger" vs. "hamburger*s*"? 

The way I saw it, the confusion was not created by there being the singular verb "is." The confusion was created by the fact that you cannot tell from the sentence whether a singular or plural noun is required--a fact that the original poster already knew, but which it seems like you are pointing out anyway.

Am I making any sense?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

brian8733 said:


> Right, but what's the point in even pointing that out when the original question dealt not with "is" but rather with "(the) hamburger" vs. "hamburger*s*"?


 
The original question was this:


> I'm curious to why you would use the plural for hamburgers and not the singular.


This question indicated some confusion about why one did not have to make the word singular to agree with the verb, and why one could instead leave it in the plural.  The answer is "because one does not have to make everything have the same number; one may leave it in the plural because agreement in number between the following noun and the verb is not required."



> The way I saw it, the confusion was not created by there being the singular verb "is."


That was the way you saw it.  It was not what I saw -- but perhaps you might want to ask the original poster whether my answer was helpful to him in any way.


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## brian

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> This question indicated some confusion about why one did not have to make the word singular to agree with the verb, and why one could instead leave it in the plural.



Wait, where was this brought up?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

brian8733 said:


> Wait, where was this brought up?


 
Where was a question brought up regarding leaving the following noun in the plural instead of making it singular????  It was brought up in the original post:


> I'm curious to why you would use the plural for hamburgers and not the singular.


 
Is there some reason why you seem so intent on criticizing my responses, Brian?


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## brian

No, I'm not criticizing; it's just that we are reading the same thing in two different ways, and it was confusing me. But I think I understand now how you were taking it.



			
				GWB said:
			
		

> Where was a question brought up regarding leaving the following noun in the plural instead of making it singular????



No. This is what you just said above:



			
				GWB said:
			
		

> This question indicated some confusion about why one did not have to make the word singular *to agree with the verb*, and why one could instead leave it in the plural.



I've highlighted the point where we disagree. I don't think the original question implied _anything_ about having to agree with the verb "is." Rather, the question was simply "why _hamburger*s*_ (pl.) instead of _(the) hamburger_ (sing.) *as a parallel with *_the lion_ in the other example." So nothing to do with the verb. It's the same (to me) as if the original question had been: _Why "I like steak" (sing.) but "I like hamburger*s*" (pl.)_ or something. It's about parallelism, not necessarily the verb--though essentially they are intertwined.

But now I can see how you could interpret the question as you did. Sorry for making you walk me through this--I was just curious where you were coming from because, at first, your comment really made no sense to me.


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## Khalo

I am sorry about the confusion.

My question is regarding the structure:
_My favorite x(food/animal/etc.) is_ *[countable noun]*.

Why is it that some of the countable nouns are used in singular (the lion) and some are used in plural (hamburgers)?

Maybe if I ask the question in reverse:
If *My favorite food is hamburgers*, is grammatically correct;
why is *My favorite animal is lions*, considered grammatically incorrect?



GreenWhiteBlue said:


> You are indeed missing my point.  I meant that it makes no difference whether the following noun is singular or plural; the number of the verb is determined by the subject, and not by the following noun.  The following noun does not have to agree in number with the verb, which is why we can say "My favorite food is hamburgers" (which was the original question), rather than being compelled to make everying in the sentence singular.



So, would *My favorite animal is lions*, be acceptable?



brian8733 said:


> Right, but what's the point in even pointing that out when the original question dealt not with "is" but rather with "(the) hamburger" vs. "hamburger*s*"?
> 
> The way I saw it, the confusion was not created by there being the singular verb "is." The confusion was created by the fact that you cannot tell from the sentence whether a singular or plural noun is required--a fact that the original poster already knew, but which it seems like you are pointing out anyway.
> 
> Am I making any sense?



Yes, this is exactly my problem.
_My favorite fruit is (apples/an apple).
My favorite insect is (ants/the ant)._
etc.

I do think it is one of those illogical English usages that I should not try to understand, but simply follow common usage.

Thanks (to both GreenWhiteBlue and brian8733; )


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## Thomas Tompion

Is there any mileage in Kitenock's suggestion that_ hamburgers_ is short for _hamburger sandwiches_?  Could the plural stick like that, after the original meaning had been forgotten?


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## Sun14

I still cannot understand that why it is idiomatic to say my favourite animal is the lion but not my favourite food is the egg.


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## Thomas Tompion

Sun14 said:


> I still cannot understand that why it is idiomatic to say my favourite animal is the lion but not my favourite food is the egg.


Yes, I can see that this would be very puzzling, Sun.

Who told you that it's not idiomatic to say _my favourite food is the egg_?  I'd call it bizarre, but not unidiomatic.

You are the one who has introduced eggs into this discussion.


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## velisarius

When we use the definite article to talk about animal species, it is slightly more formal or scientific-sounding; you will hear it on TV programmes about animals, and read it in books. It's more colloquial to talk about "lions" - "Out of all the animals in the zoo, my favourites are the lions", or "I like lions best of all".

It sounds a little strange to talk in such an abstract or scientific way about "the egg" - unless we are referring to one particular egg.

crossposted


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## Sun14

Thomas Tompion said:


> Yes, I can see that this would be very puzzling, Sun.
> 
> Who told you that it's not idiomatic to say _my favourite food is the egg_?  I'd call it bizarre, but not unidiomatic.
> 
> You are the one who has introduced eggs into this discussion.



I hear many case to take about the following noun being uncoutable noun. So I think of a new countable noun.

Do you agree that it is idiomatic?


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## Thomas Tompion

Sun14 said:


> Do you agree that it is idiomatic?


Perhaps you should answer my question first.


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## Sun14

velisarius said:


> When we use the definite article to talk about animal species, it is slightly more formal or scientific-sounding; you will hear it on TV programmes about animals, and read it in books. It's more colloquial to talk about "lions" - "Out of all the animals in the zoo, my favourites are the lions", or "I like lions best of all".
> 
> It sounds a little strange to talk in such an abstract or scientific way about "the egg" - unless we are referring to one particular egg.
> 
> crossposted



I am trying to figure our the best way to expire such ideas in writing. I believe lions and eggs would be a idiomatic but I think it might not that appropriate in writing.


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## velisarius

What sort of writing, sun? An email to a friend? - _My favourite food is eggs, how about you?_


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## Sun14

Thomas Tompion said:


> Perhaps you should answer my question first.



I think of the egg case. If the following noun is a uncountable noun then the has to be omitted so I think of a countable noun to prove that "the" is used to indicate a genre or kind.


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## Sun14

velisarius said:


> What sort of writing, sun? An email to a friend? - _My favourite food is eggs, how about you?_



I mean in a formal letter or essay or diary or a paper or a book to be published, such formal media.


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## velisarius

In a formal context I don't talk about my favourite foods. Can you come up with a formal sentence where you might want to talk about "the egg"?


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## Thomas Tompion

Sun14 said:


> If the following noun is a uncountable noun then the has to be omitted so I think of a countable noun to prove that "the" is used to indicate a genre or kind.


I'm not clear of the logic here.

Eggs are countable, and so are lions and sandwiches.

To talk about the  'genre or kind' we talk about _the egg_, _the lion_, and _the sandwich_.  What's the problem?


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## Sun14

velisarius said:


> In a formal context I don't talk about my favourite foods. Can you come up with a formal sentence where you might want to talk about "the egg"?



I can't find one. I am teaching Chinese English as a second language. Sometimes I need to tell them some rules or norms. Natives speakers might think there is no rules and norms. but English learners, especially those leaning English as a second language, they need to know the rules to make it clear. They need to distinguish the colloquial English and written English because in some test the language has to be formal. So I have these problems.


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## Sun14

Thomas Tompion said:


> I'm not clear of the logic here.
> 
> Eggs are countable, and so are lions and sandwiches.
> 
> To talk about the  'genre or kind' we talk about _the egg_, _the lion_, and _the sandwich_.  What's the problem?



That's it. So my favorite food is the egg is natural and idiomatic?


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## Thomas Tompion

Sun14 said:


> That's it. So my favorite food is the egg is natural and idiomatic?


It might be, as long as it was accompanied by a blast of trumpets from Roman soldiers in a Coen Brothers film.

It might win a prize at the Bathos of the Year awards.


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## Sun14

Thomas Tompion said:


> as long as it was accompanied by a blast of trumpets from Roman soldiers in a Coen Brothers film.
> 
> It might win a prize at the Bathos of the Year awards.



I am sorry I can't understand this. Would you paraphrase a bit?


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## Thomas Tompion

Sun14 said:


> I am sorry I can't understand this. Would you paraphrase a bit?


It means that the sentence sounds absurdly grandiose at the beginning for the limp fart at the end.


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## Sun14

Thomas Tompion said:


> It means that the sentence sounds absurdly grandiose at the beginning for the limp fart at the end.



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## Glenfarclas

Thomas Tompion said:


> we talk about _the egg_, _the lion_, and _the sandwich_.



One of C.S. Lewis's lesser-known works, I take it?


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## Thomas Tompion

Glenfarclas said:


> One of C.S. Lewis's lesser-known works, I take it?


Out of the closet, it sounds very much that way.


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## Hermione Golightly

Sun, the problem is trying to impose an unnatural pattern to a conversation and then  using this freak conversation to teach rules.

Gwb wrote way back


> The choice of singular or plural for the verb depends on the word that serves as the subject.


The question 'What is your favourite + (uncountable or O-article noun) is correct'
How often in reality do we reply to any question by repeating it? Only in a language classroom. 
What's your favourite animal, boy's name, food, colour?
We reply to the question in one word: lions, Patrick, cheese, blue.

Make the natural one word reply into the subject of the full sentence answer:

Eggs are my favourite food
Cheese is my favourite food
Oranges are my favourite food.
Cake is my favourite food.

Your students will have still practised the singular and plural verb forms and plural and uncountable nouns, but this endless waste of time is over, leaving more time for far more important problems.
Sometimes there might be a slight problem if the answer is an plural form, an activity like 'athletics' or in BrE, a subject like 'maths', which take a singular 'is', or an item of clothing like 'jeans' that takes a plural verb.


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## suzi br

Sun14 said:


> I am sorry I can't understand this. Would you paraphrase a bit?


He means NO. Dont do it!


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## Sun14

Hermione Golightly said:


> Sun, the problem is trying to impose an unnatural pattern to a conversation and then  using this freak conversation to teach rules.
> 
> Gwb wrote way back
> 
> The question 'What is your favourite + (uncountable or O-article noun) is correct'
> How often in reality do we reply to any question by repeating it? Only in a language classroom.
> What's your favourite animal, boy's name, food, colour?
> We reply to the question in one word: lions, Patrick, cheese, blue.
> 
> Make the natural one word reply into the subject of the full sentence answer:
> 
> Eggs are my favourite food
> Cheese is my favourite food
> Oranges are my favourite food.
> Cake is my favourite food.
> 
> Your students will have still practised the singular and plural verb forms and plural and uncountable nouns, but this endless waste of time is over, leaving more time for far more important problems.
> Sometimes there might be a slight problem if the answer is an plural form, an activity like 'athletics' or in BrE, a subject like 'maths', which take a singular 'is', or an item of clothing like 'jeans' that takes a plural verb.



Got it. I still think it is not a waste of time because this is not a sentence to answer a question. One could write a description of someone else by describing his or her favorite food or animal. This could also appear on some formal books or essay.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> He means NO. Dont do it!



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## RedwoodGrove

I haven't read each and every one of the posts above. The point is that _hamburger_ alone means ground beef, whereas _hamburgers_ means the patty and bun combination, a countable noun.


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## velisarius

See post #22, Red - a new question. The thread is apparently no longer concentrated on hamburgers but on eggs.


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## Irr_bow98

Can we say "my favourite animal is lion" without the article ?


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## heypresto

Irr_bow98 said:


> Can we say "my favourite animal is lion" without the article ?



No.


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## Irr_bow98

But we are not talking about a specific lion here. It's a general statement isn't it ? 

Then why is the article required ?


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## velisarius

Irr_bow98 said:


> Can we say "my favourite animal is lion" without the article ?



No, but a lion can say "My favourite animal food is zebra".


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## Irr_bow98

velisarius said:


> No, but a lion can say "My favourite animal food is zebra".



But why ? ( I wish I could insert a gif  )


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## heypresto

This question has been the subject of several previous threads. This one, for instance:  My favourite animal is ...   Just change 'dog' to 'lion'.


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## velisarius

The name of an animal in the singular with no article (or rather no determiner) is really only used when that animal is a foodstuff. (Just as other countables may become uncountable when thought of as a commodity.)

_I like chicken_. (I like to eat chicken, but I keep chickens)
_My house is made of brick. _(But my baby plays with bricks)


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## Irr_bow98

_My house is made of bricks.
_
This isn't correct ?

Thanks


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## velisarius

It's correct if we are talking about hundreds of thousands of  individual bricks. 
_My house is made of the material we call "brick"; someone else's house may be made of the material we call "stone".
_
But I'm afraid we are drifting away from the main topic.


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## suzi br

velisarius said:


> No, but a lion can say "My favourite animal food is zebra".



That's quality, madam!


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