# The "golden mean" or "middle way"



## Jimu

Hey guys,

I'm looking for the ancient Greek version of the phrase "the golden mean", aka "the middle way". I know it appears in Euripides' Medea and that it was a philosophy propounded by Aristotle. I can't find a Greek translation anywhere so I'd really appreciate it if any ancient Greek speakers out there that could give me a hand.

Btw if it helps the philosophy, as I understand it, involves balancing the excess and deficiency of certain virtues thus "the middle way" (not to be confused with the golden ratio which is a mathematical constant).

Thanks a lot,

Jim


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## 7_against_Thebes

I think it's called "χρυσή τομή" or "μέση οδός" but I'm not 100% sure.


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## Perseas

According to Aristotle: Virtue is the mean between a deficiency and an excess/Αρετή είναι το *μέσο* ανάμεσα σε μία έλλειψη και μία υπερβολή.

So what about "*xρυσό μέσο*" for "golden mean"?  I agree with 7_against_Thebes on "*μέση οδός*" for "middle way" .


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## Perseas

_Golden mean:

Χρυσό μέσο_ (as I wrote above) or _χρυσή μεσότητα    
 
(χρυσοῦν μέσον_ _or χρυσῆ μεσότης_, in a.G.)


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## Jimu

(very belated) thanks for all the answers guys! I finally came across the original. It looks like the phrase I was looking for is: τσ μηδέν α̃γαν. Can anyone translate that? It would also be great to get a rough indication of how it's pronounced. 

Many thanks,
Jim


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## bearded

Hello Jimu
Literal translation: nothing too much (= there should be nothing excessive). It's a famous phrase, which was translated to Latin as _ne quid nimis._
As for the pronunciation, I suggest _tò (_your ts is probably a typo) _meedèn aagan _(ee = long e, like in Eng. s*a*y,
aa = long a like Engl. ps*a*lm).
I hope that Greek experts will confirm.


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## apmoy70

bearded said:


> Hello Jimu
> Literal translation: nothing too much (= there should be nothing excessive). It's a famous phrase, which was translated to Latin as _ne quid nimis._
> As for the pronunciation, I suggest _tò (_your ts is probably a typo) _meedèn *aagan* _(ee = long e, like in Eng. s*a*y,
> aa = long a like Engl. ps*a*lm).
> I hope that Greek experts will confirm.


Actually it's the other way around for ἄγαν it's _agaan _the ancient word is ă-g-ā-n (probably Aeolic in origin which explains the second long a).


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## bearded

You are right, apmoy.  Thanks for correction.


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## Perseas

bearded said:


> Literal translation: nothing too much (= there should be nothing excessive).


That's right, of course. (In Modern Greek the pronunciation is "mið*e*n *a*ɣan").

@Jimu
In Modern Gr. the best translations for "the *golden* mean", aka "the *middle* way" would be in my opinion those prοposed by 7_a_T in #2 ("*χρυσή* τομή" or "*μέση *οδός"), because the words "golden" and "middle" are mentioned explicitly. On the other hand, I think that in "μηδέν άγαν" the "middle" is  suggested without being directly expressed. However, if you are looking for it, it is a very famous ancient Greek saying.

Another one famous ancient phrase is *Mέτρον ἄριστον* "Moderation is best".


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## Eliasvitt

Perseas said:


> According to Aristotle: Virtue is the mean between a deficiency and an excess/Αρετή είναι το *μέσο* ανάμεσα σε μία έλλειψη και μία υπερβολή.
> 
> So what about "*xρυσό μέσο*" for "golden mean"?  I agree with 7_against_Thebes on "*μέση οδός*" for "middle way" .



*In medio stat virtus* is a Latin expression taken from Aristotle (and translated from Greek) by St Thomas Aquina.  I was looking for the original or most reliable  Greek form of this expression and I think i finally found it here, thanks!

PS: Could you tell me if the sentence by Aristotle you provided is in Ancient or Modern Greek? Where did you take it from, any official source?


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## apmoy70

Eliasvitt said:


> *In medio stat virtus* is a Latin expression taken from Aristotle (and translated from Greek) by St Thomas Aquina.  I was looking for the original or most reliable  Greek form of this expression and I think i finally found it here, thanks!
> 
> PS: Could you tell me if the sentence by Aristotle you provided is in Ancient or Modern Greek? Where did you take it from, any official source?


Hi Eliasvitt,
Aristotle uses the term «μεσότης» [meˈsote:s] (fem.), _the middle state, middle way_:
*«Mεσότης ἐστὶν ἡ ἀρετή»* = "virtue is middle way (between the two extremes, _excess_=«ἄριστον» [ˈari:ston] (neut.) and _deficiency_=«φαυλότης» [pʰau̯ˈlote:s] (fem.))" (Nicomachean ethics 1103a14)


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## bearded

Eliasvitt said:


> PS: Could you tell me if the sentence by Aristotle you provided is in Ancient or Modern Greek


It's clearly Modern Greek, probably translated from an ancient source ('einai' and 'anamesa se' are typical Mod.Gr. expressions).
I hope that Perseas will specify.


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## Scholiast

This from LSJ, courtesy of Perseus:

“μηδὲν ἄ[γαν].” _Pi.Fr.216_ (attributed to _Chilo_ by *Arist.Rh.1389b4*)

Σ


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## bearded

Eliasvitt (like myself) was referring to the sentence in #3 (just to avoid misunderstandings).


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## Perseas

bearded said:


> It's clearly Modern Greek, probably translated from an ancient source ('einai' and 'anamesa se' are typical Mod.Gr. expressions).
> I hope that Perseas will specify.


Yes, I gave a translation in Modern Greek and apmoy (#11) cited the original phrase by Aristotle.


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## Stephie1806

@Perseas 
That's correct about "Μέτρον ἄριστον", because many people confuse it with "Πάν μέτρον ἄριστον"!  Just like Oscar Wilde's "Everything in moderation, including moderation" - One of my favourite quotes!!!


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## Perseas

Stephie1806 said:


> Just like Oscar Wilde's "Everything in moderation, including moderation" - One of my favourite quotes!!!


Πολύ καλό, όντως!


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