# I took <a, the> wrong bus.  I <made, took> <a, the> wrong turn. ... and others.



## Snappy_is_here

Native speakers of English say, "I took the wrong bus." (Not "a wrong bus.")
  In the following context, is it possible to say, "I took a wrong bus."?

  "I took a wrong bus. The cushion was bad, and it was not punctual at all."


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## panjandrum

Hello Snappy - welcome to WordReference.

What do you believe these sentences mean?
It is difficult to answer your question "... is it possible to say ..." unless you give us more information about the curcumstances - context please.
What do you mean by "The cushion was bad,"?


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## Snappy_is_here

panjandrum said:


> Hello Snappy - welcome to WordReference.
> 
> What do you believe these sentences mean?
> It is difficult to answer your question "... is it possible to say ..." unless you give us more information about the curcumstances - context please.
> What do you mean by "The cushion was bad,"?



I mean the cushion of the seat was bad.
The point of my question is whether it is possible to say, "I took a wrong bus" if it was a bus in very bad condition.


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## lrosa

Hi Snappy, welcome to the forum 

I see what you mean, but I don't think the use of "a bus/the bus" changes in this case. You would have to say: "I took the wrong bus. The one I took was in really bad condition. The seat cushions were bad and it didn't arrive on time."

However, you can always say "I took a wrong bus" as an alternative for "I took the wrong bus", although it's not said as often.


EDIT: Actually, this depends on context. "I took a wrong bus" could easily be correct and even idiomatic, although I think you would have to change the next sentence to "The cushion *on it* was bad", because it's not clear what you refer to by "cushion"


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## Snappy_is_here

lrosa said:


> Hi Snappy, welcome to the forum
> 
> I see what you mean, but I don't think the use of "a bus/the bus" changes in this case. You would have to say: "I took the wrong bus. The one I took was in really bad condition. The seat cushions were bad and it didn't arrive on time."
> 
> However, you can always say "I took a wrong bus" as an alternative for "I took the wrong bus", although it's not said as often.



Thank you for your advice. It was very clear and informative.


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## JulianStuart

The right/wrong distinction does not indicate anything about the condition of the bus.  The right bus goes where you want to go, the wrong bus goes somewhere else.


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## Snappy_is_here

Thank you very much for your advice.


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## Snappy_is_here

JulianStuart said:


> The right/wrong distinction does not indicate anything about the condition of the bus.  The right bus goes where you want to go, the wrong bus goes somewhere else.



One thing.

Are the following sentences okay?

Situation: There are several choices of correct and wrong answers/decisions.

You selected a wrong answer.
You made a wrong decision.

Situation: There are several buses leaving a bus terminal for different destinations.

Oh, that's a wrong bus. (There is only one right bus and the others are all wrong.)


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## JulianStuart

This actually sounds to me like an idiomatic use of the word "the", rather than a "normal" use of the word.  Usually, "the" means a _specific one_ among several or many, so to say "the wrong bus" would normally imply that the others are "right", while "a wrong bus" would imply (correctly) that there are other buses which are also wrong.  Perhaps this is what really prompted the question in the first place?


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## Snappy_is_here

I would like to thank you for all the people kindly answered my question.


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## Forero

Snappy_is_here said:


> Situation: There are several buses leaving a bus terminal for different destinations.
> 
> Oh, that's a wrong bus. (There is only one right bus and the others are all wrong.)


To me, this sounds fine for the situation described.

We usually say "I took the wrong bus" because we mean "The bus that I took was not the right one."

If I have not chosen a bus yet, a wrong bus can be a wrong bus, but once I choose one, even tentatively, it is the wrong bus, because the choice I have made is wrong.

So if I run up to a bus thinking I may need to get on it, and then determine it is not the right bus, I say "That's the wrong bus."  But if I stand back and look at all the buses, I can say "That's a wrong bus, and that's a wrong bus, and that's not the right bus either."

Maybe another situation could be that I took the wrong bus and accidentally left my briefcase.  Now the bus with my briefcase may be the wrong bus, and each of the other buses may be just a wrong bus.

Well, that's kind of silly I suppose, but we say "the wrong bus" unless we have a definite reason to distinguish "wrong" buses from one another.

I hope that makes sense.


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## Snappy_is_here

I must say thank you to those who gave me useful information, but I am still confused.

Isn't it possible to use "a wrong ..." in the following cases, where "wrong" means "bad" rather than "unsuitable"?

I had a wrong impression of her. (bad impression)
I made a wrong decision. (bad decision)
That is a wrong idea. (bad idea)


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## Nunty

No, *wrong* means "incorrect"; it does not mean "bad".


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## lrosa

Snappy_is_here said:


> I must say thank you to those who gave me useful information, but I am still confused.
> 
> Isn't it possible to use "a wrong ..." in the following cases, where "wrong" means "bad" rather than "unsuitable"?
> 
> I had a wrong impression of her. (bad impression)
> I made a wrong decision. (bad/incorrect decision)
> That is athe wrong idea. (bad/incorrect idea)



In the second and third sentences, "bad" can be synonymous with "incorrect", but the first sentence means "The impression I got of her was incorrect (and you later found out what she was really like)"


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## panjandrum

Snappy_is_here said:


> ...
> Situation: There are several buses leaving a bus terminal for different destinations.
> 
> Oh, that's a wrong bus. (There is only one right bus and the others are all wrong.)





			
				Forero said:
			
		

> So if I run up to a bus thinking I may need to get on it, and then determine it is not the right bus, I say "That's the wrong bus." But if I stand back and look at all the buses, I can say "That's a wrong bus, and that's a wrong bus, and that's not the right bus either."


This whole topic is most curious.
I don't think I have ever heard the term "a wrong bus".
I have been on "the wrong bus" often enough and I have said "That is not the right bus." 

Thinking about it, this is not just buses.
I think we are on *the *wrong path, road, etc ... never *a *wrong path, road, etc.


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## thoroughlyconfused

panjandrum said:


> Thinking about it, this is not just buses.
> I think we are on *the *wrong path, road, etc ... never *a *wrong path, road, etc.



I agree. In these situations, "wrong" asks for the definite article "the" since the wrongness of the bus/path/road is not an intrinsic property of the bus/path/road (respectively). It, the specific bus/path/road, is wrong because we are on it (here, I use the word "because" rather loosely). There is an element of choice: "the wrong X (for someone)" implies that someone chose the wrong X.

For comparison, think about "wrong answer". You'd tell someone "that's the wrong answer" if they incorrectly answered a question you posed to them. You might point to an unselected, incorrect answer on a multiple-choice test and say "that's a wrong answer" (if there are several possible wrong answers; if there's only one, e.g., in a true/false question, you'd probably say "the").


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## Forero

Curious indeed.  I would want to use _the_ in the following sentence, whether the impression I had was favorable or unfavorable:

_I had __a__ *the *wrong impression of her._

But, though _the_ works in the following sentence too, I accept _a_ as well:

_I made a wrong decision._

In this case, I think the difference is that I only have one occasion to have a first impression of someone, but I may make wrong decisions on some occasions and right decisions on other occasions.


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## Grumpy Old Man

Anglo-Saxon logic has it that _the_ is normally used before _wrong_ even if there are *millions* of wrong alternatives: _I dialled *the* wrong number._ Just learn it. Don't think about it too much!


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## thoroughlyconfused

Grumpy Old Man said:


> Anglo-Saxon logic has it that _the_ is normally used before _wrong_ even if there are *millions* of wrong alternatives: _I dialled *the* wrong number._ Just learn it. Don't think about it too much!



But: "Who was it?" "It was just *a* wrong number."

But: "Who was it?" "Just some who dialed *the* wrong number."

(At least in my world. I don't know where the first idiom applies.)


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## Snappy_is_here

thoroughlyconfused said:


> But: "Who was it?" "It was just *a* wrong number."
> 
> But: "Who was it?" "Just some who dialed *the* wrong number."
> 
> (At least in my world. I don't know where the first idiom applies.)



Oh, may I understand that "a wrong number" is idiomatically applicable if it follows "that is" or "it is"?

Example:
A: Did you buy the dictionary that I mentioned yesterday?
B: Yes, here it is.
A: You bought the wrong dictionary.
B: Oh, what about that one on the desk? (pointing another dictionary.)
A: That's a wrong dictionary.


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## Æsop

Snappy_is_here said:


> Example:
> A: Did you buy the dictionary that I mentioned yesterday?
> B: Yes, here it is.
> A: You bought the wrong dictionary.
> B: Oh, what about that one on the desk? (pointing another dictionary.)
> A: That's a wrong dictionary.


 
We're having trouble specifying a "rule," but in this example, "a wrong dictionary" is again unidiomatic. A's second reply could be, "That's also _the_ wrong dictionary" or "That's _the_ wrong one, too." Putting it the other way around, A's second reply also could be, "That's not _the_ right one, either." Now that there are two dictionaries on hand, A could say, "These are both _the_ wrong dictionary." I don't think _a_ can replace _the_ in any of these cases.


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## JulianStuart

I think this discussion may have taken _*a*_ wrong turn somewhere   I don't see any clear rule emerging on how one determines when wrong requires its own idiomatic article and when it does not.  It also doesn't get any easier if one substitutes the word "incorrect" while cogitating.


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## thoroughlyconfused

Snappy_is_here said:


> Oh, may I understand that "a wrong number" is idiomatically applicable if it follows "that is" or "it is"?



I would say that the "rule" is that it's _a wrong number_ if the person who dialed (or dialing) isn't mentioned (possibly implicitly in the case of an imperative).

"Don't dial that -- it/that's the wrong number."
"It's another wrong number."
"People keep dialing the wrong number."


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## thoroughlyconfused

JulianStuart said:


> I think this discussion may have taken _*a*_ wrong turn somewhere   I don't see any clear rule emerging on how one determines when wrong requires its own idiomatic article and when it does not.



Let me try: _the_ is idiomatic when a choice is (to be) made by a subject who is mentioned (possibly the subject of an imperative) and when there is also _*a*_ right choice (possibly more than one). [Here, there are two reasons for "_a_ right choice": there may be more than one right choice, and moreover the subject doing the choosing wasn't mentioned.]

I'm guessing it'll be pretty easy to poke holes in this "rule".


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## Snappy_is_here

JulianStuart said:


> I think this discussion may have taken _*a*_ wrong turn somewhere



The American Heritage Dictionary shows two examples of "a wrong something."

"Not required, intended, or wanted: took a wrong turn." 
"make a wrong move."

If that is the case, I wonder why I can't use "You bought a wrong book" if somebody bought a book that was not required.


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## thoroughlyconfused

Snappy_is_here said:


> "Not required, intended, or wanted: took a wrong turn."
> "make a wrong move."
> 
> If that is the case, I wonder why I can't use "You bought a wrong book" if somebody bought a book that was not required.



It's not wrong to say that, just unidiomatic. According to my attempted rule, "a wrong turn/move" are idiomatic since one usually doesn't have a right turn/move in mind. (If there is a decidedly right move, then I would say "make the move move".)

Books, on the other hand, aren't usually wrong (except in a different sense) even when they are not required. If you need a specific book, then there _is_ a right book you need to buy, in which case you bought _the_ wrong book.

This is an odd situation in which we native speakers seem to agree on usage, but find it really hard to explain.


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## Snappy_is_here

thoroughlyconfused said:


> It's not wrong to say that, just unidiomatic. According to my attempted rule, "a wrong turn/move" are idiomatic since one usually doesn't have a right turn/move in mind.



Okay.  Then can I understand like this?

1. You made a wrong decision. (= I don't think your decision is right though I don't have a right decision in mind.)
2. You made the wrong decision. (= I don't think your decision is right. I have the right decision in mind.)


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## JulianStuart

> If that is the case, I wonder why I can't use "You bought a wrong book" if somebody bought a book that was not required.


You just can't   because it's not idiomatic!

That's  the problem with idiomatic usage - it cannot be defined by "rules"!

One definition ( from 1628) I found for "idiom" is 

"a peculiarity of phraseology approved by usage, and often having a meaning other than its grammatical or logical one  "


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## lrosa

Do not use "a wrong ..." for anything that you can hold in your hand. 

"A" and "the" are interchangeable in many instances of the phrases "I took a/the wrong train/bus" or "I gave a/the wrong answer/interpretation." However, you could not say "I got on *a *wrong plane" because of the sheer size of your mistake in getting on an incorrect plane; you would have to say "I got on *the *wrong plane." Likewise, if a student was asked to add 2+2 and gave an incorrect answer, it would be more appropriate to say "Guess what, today I asked Tom what 2 and 2 added together makes, and he gave *the *wrong answer" - again because of the sheer size of his mistake. 

In contrast, if someone was asked a very difficult question and was given many different answers to choose from, you could easily say "He gave a wrong answer." Likewise, if there were many, many buses leaving from the same station and if someone happened to get on an incorrect bus, it would be fully appropriate to say "He got on a wrong bus."

Also, if someone had answered a long list of questions and had got all but one right, you would _have_ to say "He gave *a *wrong answer."

Where the use of "a" and "the" is interchangeable, the use of "a" stresses the wrong option, while "the" stresses the right option: "I dialled a wrong number" places the emphasis on the incorrect number which you dialled; "I dialled the wrong number" places the emphasis on the correct number which you didn't dial - the incorrect number that you happened to dial is insignificant.


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## Forero

I think ThoroughlyConfused has got something (in #26).  It does have to do with what it is in the speaker's mind, and Snappy's interpretation in #27 sounds right to me.

Here is another example:

_Sorry I was late.  I must have made a wrong turn.

No need to apologize.  Lots of people turn the wrong way at the light when they come off the Interstate.  It's probably the fork in the exit ramp that causes the confusion.
_
Notice the _a_ in the first sentence, spoken by someone with little knowledge of where they went wrong, and all the _the_s in the other person's answer, the person who has particulars in mind and a good idea of what the problem was.

When we say "It was just a wrong number", it means "an erroneous phone call" or "a call to this number by mistake."  In other words, we are thinking of the error as one of the many such errors people make to mistaken phone numbers, or as I should say to phone numbers about which they were mistaken or that they misdialed.  "Wrong number" here means "erroneously dialed phone call".

One more example with _the_s:

_When people trying to call the tennis center dial the wrong number, they often dial our phone because the tennis center's number is only one digit's difference from ours.  It's no wonder we get so many wrong numbers asking to reserve a court.
_
Notice that "wrong numbers" without an article is the plural of "a wrong number" and we say "a court" because "the" tennis center has more than one court and callers reaching the wrong phone don't ask for the same specific one.

I hope this helps.


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## Flaminius

Forero said:


> I think ThoroughlyConfused has got something (in #26).  It does have to do with what it is in the speaker's mind, and Snappy's interpretation in #27 sounds right to me.
> 
> Here is another example:
> 
> _Sorry I was late.  I must have made a wrong turn.
> 
> No need to apologize.  Lots of people turn the wrong way at the light when they come off the Interstate.  It's probably the fork in the exit ramp that causes the confusion._


What if the first interlocutor says "I made the wrong turn"?  Does it imply that he knows where the point he deviated from the right route?


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## Forero

"I made the wrong turn" would be unusual by itself.  I believe it would mean he thinks he knows what he did wrong, but it seems incomplete to me.

I would expect something more like "I must have turned the wrong way at the light" or "I took the wrong road to the right".  It is hard for me to accept that he knows where he went wrong if he doesn't mention more to identify the particular turn.

I would accept "I turned the wrong way at the light" because it sounds like something that could make total sense to him, even if I don't know what light he is referring to.

Does that make sense?


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## Cagey

In actual conversation, a person might say "I made _the_ wrong turn" (or sim.) if the original instructions had included pointed instructions to not to take one particular mistaken turn.  

That is, I agree with your main point: "the" wrong turn refers to a specific turn that is known by both people.  I am just assuming that in certain contexts, that turn wouldn't have to be specified in the sentence itself.


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## Forero

Cagey is right.  If there is a particular turn on the route in question that tends to confuse people more than other turns along the way, "I made the wrong turn" would make perfect sense by itself.  And if we had talked about a particular turn before, for example if you had warned me not to be misled by the road work in a particular area that disguises one of the turns along the way, I could say "I made the wrong turn."


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## Flaminius

Interesting.  So, can we wrap the discussion up and say the definite article is necessary when an object is uniquely identifiable other than by being wrong (say, a wrong answer chosen by oneself; a wrong turn near a landmark)?

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

—Douglas Adams.  _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_.​With the above quote as the context, can we say, "God must have made a wrong decision when he created the universe"?  Or is the definite article more suitable?  I imagine _the_ is the better choice because we know which decision is at issue, even if God could have made a number of decisions after this one.


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## Forero

If we are thinking just of the choice of whether to create the universe or not, "_the_ wrong decision" fits the sentence, but if we are thinking of one decision out of a presumably infinite number of decisions, "_a_ wrong decision" fits better.


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## lrosa

Just to note, the adjective "wrong" seems to be a peculiar case. It would be unlikely to hear "the bad move", whereas "the wrong move" is common. Again, this seems to point to the "wrong/right" dichotomy, as in: it is *the wrong *move because it is not *the right* move.


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## Flaminius

> it is *the wrong *move because it is not *the right* move.


Hi, *Irosa*,

I seem to have read the same or similar comments a few times in this thread and I still don't get it.  I have a hunch that your _the_ in "the wrong move" is not the regular _the_ that uniquely identifies an X in a set of Xs. Am I right?  I do understand that, given something is either right or wrong, a wrong thing is not a right thing.  Assuming further that there is only one right thing, it is safely said that a wrong thing is not the right thing.  I am stuck here because "not being the right thing" does not uniquely identifies the wrong thing.


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## Cagey

When we say "he made the wrong move" we are, I believe, referring to the specific move he made, and calling it wrong.  It is a condensed and understandable reference.

If we say, "he made _a_ wrong move", we are probably saying that he made one of several possible wrong moves.  However, we could be saying that it was one out of several wrong moves he himself made: "He made a wrong move when he quit his job, and another when he bought a car he couldn't afford." 

(I'm sorry he didn't lead a more interesting life.)


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## johndot

It strikes me that there’s an aspect of this topic which has not been touched upon—I think— which adds to the difficulty of determining between ‘a’ and ‘the’: *irony.*
 
How many times is it said, even though it’s clear there are many wrong buses to choose from, or turnings to take “... and guess what, I had to get/take the wrong one.”? I’ve exaggerated a bit, but I hope it’s clear what I mean; that sometimes we use ‘a’ _in order to make the point that we’re _not_ saying the_—and vice versa, of course. I’m sure this nuance affects the choice of article appreciably.


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## lrosa

Flaminius said:


> I have a hunch that your _the_ in "the wrong move" is not the regular _the_ that uniquely identifies an X in a set of Xs. Am I right?  I do understand that, given something is either right or wrong, a wrong thing is not a right thing.  Assuming further that there is only one right thing, it is safely said that a wrong thing is not the right thing.  I am stuck here because "not being the right thing" does not uniquely identifies the wrong thing.



Hi Flaminius,

I'm not completely sure, but let's say there's only one "right" thing, which we call "*the *right thing". My impression is that, however logically or illogically, we tend to carry the definite article "the" from the expression "*the *right thing" over to the expression "*the *wrong thing". 

But you are right: if something is not "*the *right thing", then it is "*a *wrong thing". However, it is more typical to use the definite article, for whatever (logical or illogical?) reason...


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## Forero

I think "You picked a right answer" is almost as strange as "You picked a wrong answer." On the other hand, "You have selected a wrong answer" does not seem strange to me at all. I don't know why.

Whatever this phenomenon is, it happens only with _wrong_ and _right_. It does not happen with every meaning of _wrong_ or _right_, and it does not happen with synonyms of _wrong_ and _right_.

For what it's worth, I believe it happens in German too (with _falsch_ and _richtig_), so it may have a long history.


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## Flaminius

Just when I thought I understood it finally....  


> I think "You picked a right answer" is almost as strange as "You picked a wrong answer." On the other hand, "You have selected a wrong answer" does not seem strange to me at all.



What happens if the "picked" sentence is in the present perfect?
Is "You have picked a wrong answer" more acceptable?

Also, is "You selected a wrong answer" still okay?



> It does not happen with every meaning of _wrong_ or _right_ (...)


This is the most frustrating part.


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## lrosa

Forero said:


> I think "You picked a right answer" is almost as strange as "You picked a wrong answer." On the other hand, "You have selected a wrong answer" does not seem strange to me at all. I don't know why.



I do not agree with this, actually. But my advice is to go with "the wrong" on practically every occasion.


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## Forero

Flaminius said:


> Just when I thought I understood it finally....
> 
> What happens if the "picked" sentence is in the present perfect?
> Is "You have picked a wrong answer" more acceptable?
> 
> Also, is "You selected a wrong answer" still okay?


Sorry to confuse. I thought about deleting my remark about "have selected" since it is basically a "first impression" and it detracts from the rest of my post (#42), but -

I think what made me feel "you have selected a wrong answer" was different is that to me it sounded more "technical", i.e. literal.

The particular wording that gives me such an impression is really not my point. My point is basically what we have already said: that the indefinite article can sometimes be used with _right_ and _wrong_ if it makes a distinction important to the context. With the meanings of _right_ and _wrong_ we have been talking about, we use _the_ as a matter of course for "normal" circumstances, and _a_ only when we have to.





> This is the most frustrating part.


I don't think the different meanings of _right_ and _wrong_ are difficult to sort out. The definite article is used the way we have been discussing only with alternatives like which bus to get on, which direction to take, etc., that are only  "right" and "wrong" relative to a particular decision in a particular situation, not with things that are right and wrong in an absolute, universal sense.


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## EdisonBhola

If the context is people asked me why I was late, and I wanted to explain that I was late because I took a/the wrong bus, should I use "a" or "the"?

Assuming I didn't need to specify which wrong bus I had taken, I guess "a" is correct?


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## owlman5

"The" is ordinary in such statements, Edison: I took the wrong bus.


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## Parla

Logically, Edison, you're right—but as Owlman says, we'd use "the" here.


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## PaulQ

EdisonBhola said:


> If the context is people asked me why I was late, and I wanted to explain that I was late because I took a/the wrong bus, should I use "a" or "the"?
> 
> Assuming I didn't need to specify which wrong bus I had taken, I guess "a" is correct?


It is in BE. 

I took a wrong bus -> implication: but I have no idea which bus it was or where it was going.
I took the wrong bus -> implication: it was going to London and I wanted to to Edinburgh.


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