# exigua temporis mercede magnae rei aleam redimit



## Custos

Topic: stultus est qui non exigua temporis mercede magnae rei aleam redimit
Copied from title. Cagey, moderator 

I literally refuse to believe there are people on earth who can disentangle this sentence, every single word of which seems to be having a number of opposite meanings, it's bizarre beyond all measure! Suppose *aleam *is an object of *redimit*--I can't even decide on a single meaning for *redimit*, saying nothing of the phrase itself. Do we "redeem" or "atone for" a "die" or a "risk"? What nonsense.

*magnae rei* is obviously dependent on *aleam *and should mean something good which someone can get. Fair enough. If *exigua *modifies *temporis *as all translations I managed to find have led me to believe, why is it in the ablative? Moreover, I can't fathom what the syntactical function of *mercede *is supposed to be, especially considering it can mean either "gain" or "punishment". And how is it tied into the whole sentence?

I would love it if someone kindly threw some light on the grammar of this.


----------



## S.V.

Hello. You may also look for 'ablative of price' (b). About _aleam_, on page 406, Gummere compares it with κίνδυνος in Plato.

There, the price in abl. & what you get in acc. 'a chance at something great' (redeem & you can click the verb for more options).


----------



## Scholiast

saluete omnes!

_OLD_ _s.v._ 'alea', *1 b* shows that the word can mean the 'stake', i.e. a sum of money bet in a gambling game.

I interpret therefore 'He is a foolish fellow who, at a modest expense of time, does not redeem his stake with something of great value'.

I am intrigued about the source of this quotation. Custos, I note that you are a new member. May I gently point out that Forum principles request that inquiries are made with as much information as possible about the origin and context of the words or phrases under discussion.

Σ


----------



## bearded

Scholiast said:


> I am intrigued about the source





> Et cum maius periculum sit male viuendi quam cito moriendi, stultus est qui *non exigua temporis mercede* magnae rei aleam redimit. —Seneca


Hi Scholiast
It's from Seneca's Epistulae morales (liber VI).

I found it here.


----------



## Scholiast

saluete amici!

_gratias, Barbate, multas_. It is gratifying to see that the Loeb translator's rendering conforms in substance with my own!

Σ


----------



## bearded

Scholiast said:


> gratias, Barbate, multas


My pleasure.
Before reading your splendid translation, one of the difficulties I found was the position of 'non' (a temptation to read ''non exigua'' instead of ''non..redimit''). Now I know better!


----------



## Sobakus

I feel compelled to mention that while in Scholiast's translation the stake is being redeemed _with_ or _using_ something of great value, in the Latin sentence a stake, or rather a chance _at/in (winning)_ something of great value is being acquired _with_ or _using_ a little bit of time. That is, unless unbeknownst to me, 'a stake with something' means the same as 'a stake at/in something'.


----------



## Custos

It's good to see that my little post, abounding as it does in silly speculation, sparked some interest, although at present I myself have grown somewhat disdained with its hysterical tone.


Scholiast said:


> May I gently point out that Forum principles request that inquiries are made with as much information as possible about the origin and context of the words or phrases under discussion.


Duly noted.

I owe a thank you of course to everyone who participated in the discussion as well as to those who, discouraged by the form in which the query was made, chose not to.


----------



## bearded

Sobakus said:


> I feel compelled to mention...


For (my) better understanding, could you please specify how you would change Scholiast's translation, based on your objection - or possibly provide a translation of your own?


----------



## Sobakus

bearded said:


> For (my) better understanding, could you please specify how you would change Scholiast's translation, based on your objection - or possibly provide a translation of your own?


I would simply substitute 'at winning' for 'with': 'He is a foolish fellow who, at a modest expense of time, does not redeem his stake at winning something of great value'. In my own translation I would use something like 'buy' or 'pay for' instead of 'redeem', and 'chance' instead of 'stake', because 'to redeem a stake' doesn't sound transparent enough to me.


----------



## Scholiast

saluete de nouo!

With the greatest respect, I think Sobakus (## 7, 10) has misunderstood what I meant by 'stake'. This, in gambling games or a betting shop, is the money risked by the player in the hope of winning a greater sum back. Obviously Seneca is writing figuratively or metaphorically, but to me the sense is clear: you expend a trivial amount of time, with the prospect of a rewarding return in terms of e.g. wisdom.

Σ


----------



## Sobakus

Actually, I think that was the sense of 'stake' I had in mind as well, yet I'm still struggling to understand the meaning of 'redeem his stake with something of great value'. The next best interpretation I can come up with is that our foolish fellow has already entered a stake, and getting something of great value is all but guaranteed to him - it's only his foolishness that prevents him from redeeming his stake for (with?) the right prize, or any prize at all. However, in the original sentence what's being bought with (redeemed with, exchanged for) a little bit of time is a chance at winning... or indeed the stake itself, if used in the tranferred meaning of "chance at winning". Seneca isn't guaranteeing anything, only saying that one would be foolish not to roll the dice since the gamble is worth it.

Are "redeem a stake with/for something" equivalent? Are these common expressions? Because I've found exactly one hit... Thank you in advance for clarifying this to me, English prepositional expressions keep catching me out after all these years.


----------



## Scholiast

Deus salutet omnes, praesertim Sobakus!

I hardly think Sobakus is alone in finding English prepositional usage a minefield. For me as a native speaker there are numerous pitfalls and traps for the unwary, especially with German!

I could perhaps have phrased my version differently. To paraphrase, therefore: 'He is a foolish man who does not spend a little time, with the prospect of winning a handsome return on his "investment"'.

Σ


----------



## S.V.

You can also read some paragraphs on the context, Custos. For the_ danger_ in the previous line, cf. "_the sufferings... make virtuous action impossible_" (Englert). The referenced volume III & _De Prov_. _Time_ is not the reason for _aleam_. You believe that 'virtuous life' is, and a wretched death may turn it to ash.


----------

