# "iz" or "ez" pronunciation of a plural noun



## eli7

When we want to make a plural form of a noun, we add "s" or "es". 
In the case of adding "es" it is sometimes(in some words) pronounced "ez" like "benches" 
and in some words "Iz" like "colleges".
I want to know in which cases and undet which circumstances "-es plural" is pronounced "ez" or "iz". Is there any rule?


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## Ben Jamin

eli7 said:


> When we want to make a plural form of a noun, we add "s" or "es".
> In the case of adding "es" it is sometimes(in some words) pronounced "ez" like "benches"
> and in some words "Iz" like "colleges".
> I want to know in which cases and undet which circumstances "-es plural" is pronounced "ez" or "iz". Is there any rule?



It depends on the dalect of the speaker. By the way, I cannot think about anybody pronouncing benches with an -en ending like in 'bed'. It is always a reduced vowel /ə/(schwa).


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## eli7

Ben Jamin said:


> It depends on the dalect of the speaker. By the way, I cannot think about anybody pronouncing benches with an -en ending like in 'bed'. It is always a reduced vowel /ə/(schwa).


yes, I meant schwa, but I dont have phonetic transcription so I wrote it like "e". 
You said it depend on the dialect but my teacher said it is fixed! and nobody should pronounce colleges like "kalIdjez", it must be "kalIdjIz".


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## bibax

Benches is pronounced [...Iz] (Received Standard).


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## eli7

bibax said:


> Benches is pronounced [...iz] (Received Standard).


Could you please give me some example when "-es" is pronounced "schwa+z"?


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## Dan2

eli7 said:


> When we want to make a plural form of a noun, we add "s" or "es".
> In the case of adding "es" it is sometimes(in some words) pronounced "ez" like "benches"
> and in some words "Iz" like "colleges".


I don't believe that there's any difference in the pronunciation of the plural ending in these two words, or in general.  In all cases of the "-es" plural it is a weak unstressed vowel followed by [z].  The actual quality of the vowel varies, as Ben Jamin said, by dialect, in the range of _ (as in "hit") to schwa._


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## merquiades

In Benches, Beaches, Glasses, Sandwiches, Witches, Dances, Watches, the "es" rhymes more or less with the word "is".  /Iz/  Like Dan I believe this is pretty universal in this phonetic environment. The only time I can think of where the two weak sounds /I/ and /ə/ might mix depending on individuals and dialects would be in pretonic syllables, like "believe", "decide" where you could hear "bəli:v", "dəsaid" or "bIli:v", "dIcaid".


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## berndf

Dan2 said:


> I don't believe that there's any difference in the pronunciation of the plural ending in these two words, or in general.  In all cases of the "-es" plural it is a weak unstressed vowel followed by [z].  The actual quality of the vowel varies, as Ben Jamin said, by dialect, in the range of _ (as in "hit") to schwa._


_In principle I agree that the weakened [ɪ] is simply an allophonic variant of [ə] (others are [ɐ] and [ɨ]). But I don't think that the distribution of these allophones are quite that arbitrary. I'd say that the raised allophones [ɪ] and [ɨ] are all but inevitable after alveolar to palatal consonants as in the aforementioned word "colleges" [...-ɪz] and "sedan" [sɨ...]._


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## Dan2

berndf said:


> I'd say that the raised allophones [ɪ] and [ɨ] are all but inevitable after alveolar to palatal consonants as in the aforementioned word "colleges" [...-ɪz]


Let me first get something out of the way that I don't think we disagree about: The OP believed that the plural ending of "colleges" is different from that of "benches".  But both "college" and "bench" end in a consonant with the same point of articulation (often called "post-alveolar"), so even if you're right that the vowel of the plural ending is beiing affected by point of articulation, we still wouldn't expect a difference between "colleges" and "benches" (and I certainly don't hear one).


berndf said:


> In principle I agree that the weakened [ɪ] is  simply an allophonic variant of [ə] (others are [ɐ] and [ɨ]). But I  don't think that the distribution of these allophones are quite that  arbitrary. I'd say that the raised allophones [ɪ] and [ɨ] are all but  inevitable after alveolar to palatal consonants


There's another fact that complicates the situation.  A word like "Georgia" ends in a vowel that everyone would call schwa [ə], despite the post-alveolar consonant that precedes it. And the possessive (or plural) of this word correspondingly ends in [əz]. I (and I believe most Americans; maybe also true elsewhere) perceive "George's" to be different from "Georgia's", the first having [ɪz] or [ɨz], the second [əz].  This suggests that the syllabic plural ending is unstressed [ɪz].  It also shows that the pronunciation of the plurals "colleges", "benches", "Georges" (or the homophonous possessives or 3rd-person sing verbs) with [ɪz] or [ɨz] cannot simply be the result of the phonetic environment pulling [ə] to higher-vowel position, since [ə] is perfectly happy to remain as such in words such as "Georgia" and "Georgia's".

I'm sure you're right that there is some allophonic variation based on the place of articulation of a consonant that precedes an unstressed vowel in English, but that effect is not strong enough to pull the final vowel of "Georgia(s)" (or "Asia(s)", etc) up to the height of [ɪ]; "colleges" and "George's" have [ɪ]/[ɨ] for a different reason: the phonemic make-up of the plural/possessive/3rd-person-sing ending.


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## berndf

Dan2 said:


> ...we still wouldn't expect a difference between "colleges" and "benches" (and *I certainly don't hear one*).


Nor do I.


Dan2 said:


> There's another fact that complicates the situation.  A word like "Georgia" ends in a vowel that everyone would call schwa [ə], despite the post-alveolar consonant that precedes it. And the possessive (or plural) of this word correspondingly ends in [əz]. I (and I believe most Americans; maybe also true elsewhere) perceive "George's" to be different from "Georgia's", the first having [ɪz] or [ɨz], the second [əz].


I can't tell as I pronounce _George's_ as /dʒoːdʒz/, i.e. without a vowel. But that is my mistake. But when I listen to other people's pronunciation, I agree with you that the "colour" of the Schwa is different in _George's_ and _Georgia's_.


Dan2 said:


> ...but that effect is not strong enough to pull the final vowel of "Georgia(s)" (or "Asia(s)", etc) up to the height of [ɪ]; "colleges" and "George's" have [ɪ]/[ɨ] for a different reason: the phonemic make-up of the plural/possessive/3rd-person-sing ending.


I perceive the /ə/ in _Georgia _and _Asia _in 80-90% of all speakers as [ɐ], another allophonic variant of /ə/ (in the samples here, rdbedsole's is the only one where I don't hear [ɐ]). Since my own language has phonemic contrast between [ə] and [ɐ], I might hear this distinction stronger than a native English speaker.

My conclusion would be that the a-colouring of the Schwa in _Georgia_ and _Asia_ prevents the [-ɪz] realization in_ Georgia's_ and _Asia's_.


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## eli7

Well, Could anyone please give me some examples in which the "-es" ending is pronounces "schwa z"? because it seems that most of the plural nouns included "benches" and "colleges" are pronounced "Iz".


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## entangledbank

To repeat what has been said several times, it depends on dialect, but a person uses basically the same vowel in _all_ such words. There are three plural endings: (1) /s/ as in _cats, cups_, (2) /z/ as in _dogs, trees, lions_, and (3) /Vz/ with some vowel V as in _horses, buses, cheeses, colleges, benches _- anything with a singular ending in a sibilant. There aren't four endings - there aren't two different endings, /əz/ in some of the words in (3) and /ɪz/ in others. For each person, the vowel is always the same one. In Australia the vowel V is /ə/; in London it is /ɪ/. Each accent has one such vowel, and uses that vowel in all the words in (3).


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## eli7

Thank you


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## Istriano

Merriam Webster's Learner's Dictionary (which I use) recommends the /əz/ pronunciation in these words, like  "benches", "colleges", ''breeches''
*breeches */ˈbrɪtʃəz/
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/breeches   

*In OED it's */ˈbrɪtʃɪz/*,*
so there must be a difference between a (Western) American and (Southern) British English.


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## Alxmrphi

> In Australia the vowel V is /ə/; in London it is /ɪ/. Each accent has  one such vowel, and uses that vowel in all the words in (3).


Agree 
I was just about to mentioned Australia having the [əz] where RP has [ɪz].
There are parts of the UK that have [əz], too, though I can't remember exactly where without checking (and in a bit of a rush now!)


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## merquiades

Dan2 said:


> There's another fact that complicates the situation.  A word like "Georgia" ends in a vowel that everyone would call schwa [ə], despite the post-alveolar consonant that precedes it. And the possessive (or plural) of this word correspondingly ends in [əz]. I (and I believe most Americans; maybe also true elsewhere) perceive "George's" to be different from "Georgia's", the first having [ɪz] or [ɨz], the second [əz].  This suggests that the syllabic plural ending is unstressed [ɪz].  It also shows that the pronunciation of the plurals "colleges", "benches", "Georges" (or the homophonous possessives or 3rd-person sing verbs) with [ɪz] or [ɨz] cannot simply be the result of the phonetic environment pulling [ə] to higher-vowel position, since [ə] is perfectly happy to remain as such in words such as "Georgia" and "Georgia's".
> 
> I'm sure you're right that there is some allophonic variation based on the place of articulation of a consonant that precedes an unstressed vowel in English, but that effect is not strong enough to pull the final vowel of "Georgia(s)" (or "Asia(s)", etc) up to the height of [ɪ]; "colleges" and "George's" have [ɪ]/[ɨ] for a different reason: the phonemic make-up of the plural/possessive/3rd-person-sing ending.


  Totally in agreement.  Both vowels in "breeches" are the same for me.  Another clear difference for me is Lisa's and leases.


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## bibax

eli7 said:


> Could you please give me some example when "-es" is pronounced "schwa+z"?


According to my English grammar book (Received Pronunciation Standard) the ending *-ers* (-er + plural -s) is pronounced "schwa (called _mixed vowel_ in the book) + z".

So if the word *benches* were pronounced with "schwa+z" at the end (as you originally claimed in #1), it would be indistinguishable from the word *benchers*.

I wonder if there is a regional pronunciation that doesn't distinguish benches from benchers (teaches from teachers, preaches from preachers, ...).


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## merquiades

bibax said:


> According to my English grammar book (Received Pronunciation Standard) the ending *-ers* (-er + plural -s) is pronounced "schwa (called _mixed vowel_ in the book) + z".
> 
> So if the word *benches* were pronounced with "schwa+z" at the end (as you originally claimed in #1), it would be indistinguishable from the word *benchers*.
> 
> I wonder if there is a regional pronunciation that doesn't distinguish benches from benchers (teaches from teachers, preaches from preachers, ...).



Hello Bibax.  As far as I'm concerned, I'd agree with your book.  Preachers, teachers, bleachers have schwa + z, contrasting with preaches, bleaches, teaches with have I + z.  Sometimes an important distinction indeed.  I actually wonder if I've every heard accents that don't distinguish here. (No I've not heard them all yet! )
Happy Christmas Eve everybody!


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