# EN: give up / abandon - phrasal verbs / single verbs



## Jocaste

Hi everyone !
I have a question about English phrasal verbs : what's the more common usage orally and dailly : using phrasal verbs or single verbs ?
e.g. : _He has given up all hope of becoming a journalist_.
or
_He has abandonned all hope of becoming a journalist_.

Thanks in advance


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## Aupick

Phrasal verbs (which are usually of Germanic origin) are more common in everyday English. The simple verbs (which are usually of Latin origin) are typically more formal. (This is true in your examples.)


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## Jocaste

Okay! thks 
But in a letter or something else in writting, which verb would you rather use ?


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## max_france

D'après le dico: "abandoned" : 1 seul "n" (2 "n" dans "abandonné").


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## Oddmania

Jocaste said:


> Okay! thks
> But in a letter or something else in writting, which verb would you rather use ?



Ça dépend à qui vous vous adressez, mais je pense que les verbes d'origine latine comme _continue_ (au lieu de_ go on, keep on_) ou _abandon_ (au lieu de _give up_) sonnent vraiment littéraire, et on les trouvera plutôt dans une narration


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## Keith Bradford

I am reminded of the comment in a Terry Pratchett book: "_Never trust a man who says 'Enter!'_"  In everyday usage, both spoken and written, Germanic words and phrases sound more at ease than Latinate ones.  

(It is noticeable that Churchill's famous speech, intended to encourage the nation in 1940, said "_We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France..._" and not "_We intend to continue to the conclusion._..".)


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## eddabed

Either sounds find to be honest. There is not much of a difference in the examples you have chosen, but try to use simple verbs in letters/emails etc,.


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## Keith Bradford

"Simple verbs" ?  I think you means single-word verbs, and if so I heartily disagree.

The simple verb is "give up", not "abandon".  Ask any child.


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## Thomas1

eddabed said:


> Either sounds find to be honest. There is not much of a difference in the examples you have chosen, but try to use simple verbs in letters/emails etc,.


This what is also generally advised by manuals as far as formal correspondence/writing is concerned. 


Keith Bradford said:


> "Simple verbs" ?  I think you means  single-word verbs, and if so I heartily disagree.
> 
> The simple verb is "give up", not "abandon".  Ask any  child.


In general, phrasal verbs give a somewhat colloquial tang to an utterance,  there is no contradiction against using them in informal letters/writing.


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## Keith Bradford

We have a difference here, Thomas1, between *grammar*: what is allowed ("there is no contradiction against using them"); and *style*: what is recommended ("try to use simple verbs").

*Grammar* allows both forms in all levels of writing. *Style *recommends the simple, short, Germanic-based verbal phrases in preference to the difficult, long, Latin-based single-word verbs. The result in most cases is easier to understand, more natural and more English. My guides in this are Lucas (_Style_, Cassell & Co, London 1955) and Gowers (_Plain words_, HMSO 1948).  Both authors are giving advice to fairly high-level literary or official writers.

But nobody is advocating all-or-nothing, I hope.


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## Chris' Spokesperson

"Abandon all hope" is an extremely well known formula which has been used in many languages and in many circumstances over the centuries, but it does tend strongly to the dramatic.  This makes its use in literary contexts perfect, but also, for instance, if you wish to exaggerate for comic effect.


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## Keith Bradford

Source: Dante's _Divine Comedy_, 1814 translation into English by the Reverend H. F. Cary 

"All hope abandon ye who enter here."  (= _Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate_.)

Excellent, if that's the literary echo you want, but shouldn't be overdone.


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## Pierre Simon

Keith Bradford said:


> *Style *recommends the simple, short, Germanic-based verbal phrases in preference to the difficult, long, Latin-based single-word verbs. The result in most cases is easier to understand, more natural and more English.


 
As well as the guides mentioned by Keith, I recommend this essay by Orwell, which deals with the overuse of Latin words, and a lot more besides. All WR English forums should have a permanent link to it.


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## Thomas1

Keith Bradford said:


> We have a difference here, Thomas1, between *grammar*: what is allowed ("there is no contradiction against using them"); and *style*: what is recommended ("try to use simple verbs").
> 
> *Grammar* allows both forms in all levels of writing. *Style *recommends the simple, short, Germanic-based verbal phrases in preference to the difficult, long, Latin-based single-word verbs. The result in most cases is easier to understand, more natural and more English. My guides in this are Lucas (_Style_, Cassell & Co, London 1955) and Gowers (_Plain words_, HMSO 1948).  Both authors are giving advice to fairly high-level literary or official writers.
> [...]


  I was talking about style too. Here is an example from _Oxford Handbook of Commercial Correspondence_, A. Ashley:





> Inappropriate Form: you'll get your money back
> Preferred Alternative: your loan will be repaid


Would you use the first form in formal correspondence, Keith? 

Anyway, I'm a little surprised that there is such a huge discrepancy.


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## Chris' Spokesperson

Pierre Simon said:


> As well as the guides mentioned by Keith, I recommend this essay by Orwell, which deals with the overuse of Latin words, and a lot more besides. All WR English forums should have a permanent link to it.



Thank you so much for that, a very enjoyable and, hopefully, inspirational read!


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## Keith Bradford

Sorry, Thomas1, I entirely disagree with that recommendation.

The two sentences don't have the same meaning.
The second is a passive, which (_ceteris paribus_) is always inadvisable.
I'd have preferred: _You will get your money back_ or (better still) _We will pay your money back_. (However, "we will pay your money back" is the kind of thing businessmen hate to say, they prefer to leave it vague!)


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## johnblacksox

Jocaste said:


> Hi everyone !
> I have a question about English phrasal verbs : what's the more common usage orally and dailly : using phrasal verbs or single verbs ?
> e.g. : _He has given up all hope of becoming a journalist_.
> or
> _He has abandonned all hope of becoming a journalist_.
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
This may not be the best example, because a commonly known quote is "Abandon hope all you who enter here", or something like that, a sign above the gates of hell I believe, from a very famous book, I forget which one. 

So the use of "abandon" and "hope" in the same sentence is well-recognized.

In general, I think either of those sentences would be fine in day to day speech. Neither sounds odd or off to my ears. "Abandoned" may sound a little more dramatic, but possibly just because of the literary reference I mentioned above.

Edit:  I just noticed that Keith Bradford nailed the Dante reference a few posts earlier.


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