# Spanish people do not know (good) English



## Carlos Bergante

Hello everyone, would you use "Spanish people do not know (good) English" as a translation for "Los españoles no saben (buen) inglés"?? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Linguilly Confused

Although it doesn't sound as great as it could, I don't see anything grammatically incorrect with it.


----------



## Doval

To clarify the reference to "los españoles", I would say "The Spanish" or "Spaniards" instead of "Spanish people", which may be taken to refer to anyone who speaks Spanish.


----------



## María Madrid

Doval said:


> Spanish people", which may be taken to refer to anyone who speaks Spanish.


Even if it certainly doesn't mean that... Or would "English people" be understood as those who speak English? 

What about saying Spaniards don't speak good English? Saludos,


----------



## Doval

María Madrid said:


> Even if it certainly doesn't mean that... Or would "English people" be understood as those who speak English?
> 
> What about saying Spaniards don't speak good English? Saludos,


As much as you might dislike the idea, here in the United States at least (and also in the Caribbean, the other region for which I have some reference), when someone says "He's Spanish/She's Spanish", they USUALLY mean the person is Spanish-speaking or or latino/hispanic origin. The term "Spanish" here is associated more with the language than the country. (There're many Spanish-speaking people in the United States, but very few from Spain.) Sorry, Spain.

As for your sentence, Spaniards don't speak good English, it sounds good to me!


----------



## Parlanchina

I would say, "Spanish speakers don't speak *very* good English."  English speakers tend to soften judgment statements with the word "very" - it just makes it sound less harsh.


----------



## María Madrid

Doval said:


> As much as you might dislike the idea, here in the United States at least (and also in the Caribbean, the other region for which I have some reference), when someone says "He's Spanish/She's Spanish", they USUALLY mean the person is Spanish-speaking or or latino/hispanic origin.


Yes, I know that, but it's not the same in the UK, for instance. I just meant Spanish people doesn't necessarily mean Spanish speaking people all over the world. Saludos,


----------



## Paraguayan

> I just meant Spanish people doesn't necessarily mean Spanish speaking people all over the world. Saludos,


 
I agree with you... I think they are used to call us like that, but it´s not correct for me. They tend to generalize.

For instance people from US call themself "americans", and I think I´m american too because Paraguay is inside the continent named America


----------



## Parlanchina

No sé. . . aquí todo el mundo dice "Mexicans" para describir a los hispanohablantes. No les importa si son españoles o puertorriqueños o lo que sea, todos son "Mexicans".


----------



## Doval

María Madrid said:


> Yes, I know that, but it's not the same in the UK, for instance. I just meant Spanish people doesn't necessarily mean Spanish speaking people all over the world. Saludos,


I understand and agree with you completely, María.  I only wish to alert you to the fact that, at least in this area (I imagine that, with the UK's proximity to Spain, things there are probably different, and I won't claim to speak for any area for which I have no personal experience), when someone says so-and-so is "Spanish", they almost certainly mean (s)he's Mexican, or Colombian, or Puerto Rican, or Ecuadorian, or of ANY given latino or Spanish-speaking origin, but not necessarily from Spain.  Most listeners, in fact, will ASSUME that you are referring to someone of latin AMERICAN origin.  So here at least, "Spanish people" will be misunderstood by the majority of listeners.  If your audience does not include uncultured Americans then you have nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## Paraguayan

Parlanchina said:


> No sé. . . aquí todo el mundo dice "Mexicans" para describir a los hispanohablantes. No les importa si son españoles o puertorriqueños o lo que sea, todos son "Mexicans".


 
Pueden llamarlos como quieran, pero está mal dicho (no es lo correcto)

Acá a las personas nacidas en EE.UU. le decimos _estadounidences_ y no _americanos_


----------



## María Madrid

Doval said:


> I understand and agree with you completely, María. I only wish to alert you to the fact that, at least in this area (I imagine that, with the UK's proximity to Spain, things there are probably different, and I won't claim to speak for any area for which I have no personal experience), when someone says so-and-so is "Spanish", they almost certainly mean (s)he's Mexican, or Colombian, or Puerto Rican, or Ecuadorian, or of ANY given latino or Spanish-speaking origin, but not necessarily from Spain. Most listeners, in fact, will ASSUME that you are referring to someone of latin AMERICAN origin. So here at least, "Spanish people" will be misunderstood by the majority of listeners. If your audience does not include uncultured Americans then you have nothing to be concerned about.


No need to alert me on anything. We all know what you call Spanish in America. I just meant to make clear for Carlos that it's not the same in other English speaking countries. Saludos,


----------



## Doval

Parlanchina said:


> No sé. . . aquí todo el mundo dice "Mexicans" para describir a los hispanohablantes. No les importa si son españoles o puertorriqueños o lo que sea, todos son "Mexicans".


Here in New York, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans far outnumber Mexicans, so the term "Mexicans" is usually reserved for those spanish speakers who don't look Dominican or Puert Rican.  Like Ecuadorians and Peruvians, for example.


----------



## billmoss

Hello.

I think you need to distinguish between "not know" and "not speak": there are cases where they'll differ. _Saber_, like "know," seems an unfortunate choice, if you mean to refer to proficiency in use of language.

Then, even in Spain, some might not consider themselves españoles; probably I'd skirt that with _En España, la gente no habla ingles muy bien_; or, to dodge such a sweeping generality, _En españa, hay (mucha) gente que...._

Note that in parts of Central and South America, _español_ is not the word of choice for describing the language spoken, because it refers to Spain; rather, many people prefer _c__astellano._ 

Here on the West Coast of the USA, we're more sensitized to terminology than in some regions of the county--but we're still relatively ignorant. 

And, when it comes to labeling ethnic or national groups, or even languages, ignorance creates all sorts of problems. In general, among those here who care, _Latino_ is preferable to _Hispanic,_ and we distinguish between groups when that's known. Especially in California, _Chicano_ refers to US citizens of Mexican descent, and _Mexican_ to non US citizens from Mexico. Naturally, some will call every Spanish speaker a Mexican or Latino, but here, that's considered unfortunate. Find and watch the movie "A Day Without A Mexican" for an interesting look at this.

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## LaReinita

Parlanchina said:


> No sé. . . aquí todo el mundo dice "Mexicans" para describir a los hispanohablantes. No les importa si son españoles o puertorriqueños o lo que sea, todos son "Mexicans".


 
Well, I'm not sure where you live exactly, but that is not how it is here where I live in the NE of the US.  The general term would be hispanic/latino.


----------



## roxcyn

Many Spanish speakers don't know English.
Many Spanish speakers don't know (very) good English.
Many Spanish speakers don't know how to speak (very) good English.
Many Spanish speakers don't know how to read, write, and speak (very) good English.
Many Spanish speakers aren't fluent in English. 

Espero que te sirva.  

Pablo


----------



## LaReinita

roxcyn said:


> Many Spanish speakers don't know English.
> Many Spanish speakers don't know (very) good English.
> Many Spanish speakers don't know how to speak (very) good English.
> Many Spanish speakers don't know how to read, write, and speak (very) good English.
> Many Spanish speakers aren't fluent in English.
> 
> Espero que te sirva.
> 
> Pablo


 
I believe that the original poster wanted to only speak about Spaniards.


----------



## Spanish linguist

Hi everybody, as far as Carlos's translation is concerned, I'd like to introduce something new. I'd use CAN'T instead of DON'T as can is usually used in these translations. So my choice here would be Spanish people/ Spaniards (who is the translation aimed at: British or American speakers?)  can't speak good English


----------



## profe105

Spanish_linguist, I don't care too much for that option.  By using the word _can't, _I think it implies some sort of mental or physical defect that prevents Spaniards from speaking good English.  I don't think that's the intent of the original sentence.

Just my two cents!


----------



## Spanish linguist

Dear Profe, does "I can't swim" or "I can't play the guitar" imply I have some mental or physical defect that prevent me from swimming or playing??? I don't think so, I've heard it a lot in Britain. From your location, I presume this might be a matter of BrE vs AmE. "I don't know English", in Britain (any Briton ouut there???) doesn't necessarily imply that you don't speak the language, but that you don't really understand how it works. Thanks a lot for your new viewpoint.
By the by, what does "just my 2 cents mean"?


----------



## roxcyn

You can use Spanish Speakers or Spainards, it really doesn't matter as people will say Spanish speakers for anyone who speaks Spanish.  Have a nice day.

Pablo


----------



## profe105

Spanish linguist said:


> Dear Profe, does "I can't swim" or "I can't play the guitar" imply I have some mental or physical defect that prevent me from swimming or playing??? I don't think so, I've heard it a lot in Britain. From your location, I presume this might be a matter of BrE vs AmE. "I don't know English", in Britain (any Briton ouut there???) doesn't necessarily imply that you don't speak the language, but that you don't really understand how it works. Thanks a lot for your new viewpoint.
> By the by, what does "just my 2 cents mean"?


 

"Spaniards can't speak good English." I interpret that to mean that Spaniards are incapable of speaking good English, no matter what.  "Spaniards don't speak good English" conveys to me an idea that they don't because they aren't taught it well, there's not enough opportunity to practice, etc.  It's a subtle difference, but I think it's important.

"Just my 2 cents" means that it's just my humble opinion.


----------



## Parlanchina

"To add one's two cents" es un modismo que significa "presentar su opinión".


----------



## GiggLiden

What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
Trilingual

What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
Bilingual

What do you call someone who speaks only ONE language?
.
.
.
.
.
An American (from the USA)


----------



## trevorb

profe105 said:


> "Spaniards can't speak good English." I interpret that to mean that Spaniards are incapable of speaking good English, no matter what. "Spaniards don't speak good English" conveys to me an idea that they don't because they aren't taught it well, there's not enough opportunity to practice, etc. It's a subtle difference, but I think it's important.


 
As a Brit, I'd second that.

The difference is the same as between:

I can't swim
Spaniards can't swim
The first refers to a specific instance of a person who at that moment is unable to do something - either through lack of skill or through some inability.

The second is a generalization that caries with it the implication of some fundamental inability.

To express that generalization without implying inability it's usual to use "don't" or "don't know how to" etc.

In the original sentence, I'd go for:
Spaniards don't speak very good English​where 'very' performs more or less the same function as 'buen' in the original.

Saludos,

Trevor.


----------



## darrenr

I just want to say, as a person born and raised in the USA, that around here (in West Virginia) we say "Spanish" to refer to people from Spain, and only Spain.  In fact, I can't think of anyone I know who uses the term more broadly than that.  I find that characterization of "estadounidenses" to be slightly offensive, even if coming from one from New York City  

We use the term "Mexicans" a little bit more broadly perhaps, because nationality is not immediately obvious to those of us who live thousands of miles away and seldom meet anyone who didn't come from Mexico who speaks non-castillian dialects of spanish.  

That said, I don't think we really use the word "Spanish" to refer to a group of people anyway, unless we know specifically that they are from Spain.  Most people from around here probably wouldn't recognize the language as Spanish if it were being spoken by a Spaniard because all we hear are people speaking Latin American dialects.


----------



## Outsider

billmoss said:


> I think you need to distinguish between "not know" and "not speak": there are cases where they'll differ. _Saber_, like "know," seems an unfortunate choice, if you mean to refer to proficiency in use of language.


This is probably a difference between Spanish and English. In English, you say that you "can speak" a language, "can swim", "can play the guitar", and so on, but in Spanish you say that you "know how to speak" the language, "know how to swim", and "know how to play the guitar".



billmoss said:


> Then, even in Spain, some might not consider themselves españoles;


I doubt that. What they may not consider themselves is Castilian...


----------



## Ynez

darrenr, recognizing dialects is terribly difficult unless you are a native speaker. We all speak some dialect, and the ones inside Spain are not more similar to each other than to some in America.

What it's more similar inside Spain is vocabulary, because television plays a huge role in making us share a particular vocabulary. But that's just a few words and expressions that are not shared among all Spanish speakers all over the world.


----------



## Paraguayan

> darrenr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find that characterization of "estadounidenses" to be slightly offensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not offensive at all!
> 
> Check this out
> 
> http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=estadounidense
> 
> You can look for _"estadounidense" _here too: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/
> (Spanish Language´s Dictionary from the _" Real Academia Española "_ )
> 
> I hope you understand me
Click to expand...


----------



## ILT

Este hilo se ha desviado significativamente de la pregunta original,


> would you use "Spanish people do not know (good) English" as a translation for "Los españoles no saben (buen) inglés"?


la cual ha sido contestada, por lo tanto queda cerrado.


----------

