# países americanos



## The Dock

Hello--

  Estoy leyendo un libro sobre el español de Uruguay, y yo he encontrado algo que no entiendo: "En efecto, todas las características que podrían considerarse como peculiares del territorio se encuentran también en el español utlizado en otros países americanos" ... Quiere decir el autor, otros países de 'South America'?

Muchas gracias


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## fsabroso

The Dock said:


> Hello--
> 
> Estoy leyendo un libro sobre el español de Uruguay, y yo he encontrado algo que no entiendo: "En efecto, todas las características que podrían considerarse como peculiares del territorio se encuentran también en el español utlizado en otros países americanos" ... Quiere decir el autor, otros países de 'South America'?
> 
> Muchas gracias


Hola:

¡Bienvenido a WR!

México, El Salvador, y otros, no se encuentran en South America, sino en Central America, es por eso que el autor dice solo países americanos, para incluir a aquellos en el sur y en el centro.

Saludos.


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## The Dock

¡Muchas gracias por darme bienvenida a yo, y muchas gracias por la respuesta!


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## zumac

México no está en Centroamerica, está en Norteamerica.

Saludos.


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## Ballenero

Hola,
¿Cómo se dice "y otros países americanos" en inglés americano y en inglés británico?
(¿Irlanda es británica?).

Ejemplo: 
"Voy a visitar Estados Unidos y otros países americanos".

Gracias.


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## fenixpollo

Una pequeña corrección, Ballenero:





Ballenero said:


> "Voy a visitar *los *Estados Unidos y otros países americanos".


Tu pregunta es difícil si quieres el equivalente norteamericano, ya que para muchos estadounidenses "America" es el nombre de su país y no del continente. Teniendo en cuenta esta identidad confundida, mi intento sería:

I'm going to visit the United States and other countries in the Americas.

Creo que esta sugerencia vale para la consulta original igual que para tu contexto adicional.


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## Ferrol

Spanish-speaking America is mostly known as Latin America these days


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## gengo

Ballenero said:


> ¿Cómo se dice "y otros países americanos" en inglés americano y en inglés británico?
> (¿Irlanda es británica?).
> 
> Ejemplo:
> "Voy a visitar Estados Unidos y otros países americanos".



You can convey the idea by using the plural form:  I'm going to visit the US and other countries in the Americas.

By the way, fenixpollo "corrected" your post by adding an article to Estados Unidos, but I believe that it is not necessary in Spanish, as the official name of the country in Spanish is Estados Unidos de América.


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## elroy

fenixpollo said:


> I'm going to visit the United States and other countries in the Americas.


 “the Americas” is perfectly correct and unambiguous, but it’s rarely used in everyday speech.  I think “and other countries in North and South America” would be more likely.


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## rajulbat

"En efecto, todas las características que podrían considerarse como peculiares del territorio se encuentran también en el español utlizado en otros países americanos" = Indeed, all of the characteristics in the territory which might be considered peculiar are also found in the Spanish spoken in other Latin American countries.

It is true that "países americanos" will not always accurately translate as "Latin American countries" because the former includes the various English, French, Dutch, and German colonies/settlements and their successors on or around either American continent, whereas the latter term includes only the Spanish colonies and their successors, and sometimes the Portuguese ones. However, the OP sentence makes clear that we are talking about dialects of Spanish, in which case "Latin American countries" is completely accurate and adequate.


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## Circunflejo

elroy said:


> I think “and other countries in North and South America” would be more likely.


And what about Caribbean countries like Cuba or the Dominican Republic?


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## elroy

They are considered part of North America.


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## gengo

Circunflejo said:


> And what about Caribbean countries like Cuba or the Dominican Republic?



What elroy said.  Also note that "Central America" is not a real geographical term, and is instead a political term.  In geographical terms, the countries of Central America are part of North America, but in political terms, North America consists of only Canada, the USA, and Mexico.


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## Circunflejo

gengo said:


> Also note that "Central America" is not a real geographical term


I don't share that point of view but this is not the place to discuss about geography so let's leave it here.


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## michelmontescuba

elroy said:


> They are considered part of North America.


Desconozco cono lo verán en USA u otros países, pero en mi opinión, El Caribe no forma parte del norte, sur, o centro; simplemente es otra región. Lo que sí te puedo decir con total certeza es que en Cuba no nos consideramos del norte y no creo que alguna vez llegue a escuchar semejante cosa.


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## fenixpollo

Gengo está hablando de la geografía que se enseña en los Estados Unidos. Hay dos continentes: América del norte y América del sur. El Caribe y América central no son continentes; tienen que formar parte o de América del norte o de América del sur, entonces forman parte de América del norte en términos geográficos. No estamos hablando de términos políticos, porque allí sí, el Caribe y América central son zonas distintas.


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## User With No Name

I very much agree with @fenixpollo. The simplest way to express "América" in this context in English is with the plural: "the Americas."

"Continent" is a rather slippery term to define, after all.


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## michelmontescuba

Ok, entiendo. Solo decir que en nuestra geografía es diferente, porque no consideramos a Las Americas como dos continentes separados, sino como un apelativo no tan usado de un solo continente llamado América. Entonces El Caribe pertenecería simplemente a América.


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## elroy

User With No Name said:


> The simplest way to express "América" in this context in English is with the plural: "the Americas."


 As I said, I can't see someone saying "I'm gonna visit the US and some other countries in the Americas" in casual conversation.  It's not an established part of US English vernacular.  I would expect to see it in geography textbooks and more formal written works.  It's like "the Western hemisphere."  How many people would say "I visited the US and some other countries in the Western hemisphere"?   It's correct, but it's not part of everyday usage.


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## User With No Name

elroy said:


> As I said, I can't see someone saying "I'm gonna visit the US and some other countries in the Americas" in casual conversation.


I still think "the Americas" is the least-bad option. The simple fact is that if you just say "America" in English, people will assume it refers to the U.S. And if you say North and South America, etc., you are opening up a whole different can of worms, because as we see, people in the Caribbean don't consider themselves part of North or South America.

And while I'm not going to engage in a debate about geography, the fact is that for many people, "Central America" is a distinct entity from North and South America. (If you start telling people that Costa Rica is in North America, they will think you are strange.)


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## elroy

In that case, you can say "North, Central, and South America."  Or whichever one or two apply, if not all three do.  If someone told me they were going to visit a few countries in "the Americas," I would be like "Okay, Christopher Columbus."


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## Chinairon

elroy said:


> “the Americas” is perfectly correct and unambiguous, but it’s rarely used in everyday speech.  I think “and other countries in North and South America” would be more likely.



I see what you mean. In my experience, however, the "Americas" is becoming more and more common both in English and Spanish. It's in line with the general push against U.S. appropriation of the term. 



Ballenero said:


> Hola,
> ¿Cómo se dice "y otros países americanos" en inglés americano y en inglés británico?
> (¿Irlanda es británica?).
> 
> Ejemplo:
> "Voy a visitar Estados Unidos y otros países americanos".


 
Yo diría "in the Americas" como muchos han propuesto o también diría "other American countries" si (se ) me da la gana discutir el tema.


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## elroy

Chinairon said:


> however, the "Americas" is becoming more and more common both in English and Spanish. It's in line with the general push against U.S. appropriation of the term.


 In English, using "the Americas" doesn't change anything about the use of "America" to refer to the US.  If you wanted to work toward abolishing (or at least discouraging) that use, you could, for example, opt to always say "the US," "the United States," or "the States" rather than "America" when referring to the US.  Using "the Americas" to refer to the countries of the Western hemisphere doesn't promote or discourage the use of "America" to refer to the US.  I have not recently noticed an increase in the use of "the Americas" in everyday speech in the US.  The term has been around for a long time; it's just that, as I said, for whatever reason it isn't a term you hear much in everyday speech.


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## Circunflejo

Just in case it wasn't clear enough on my previous posts because I didn't say it explicitly, I too think that @fenixpollo's suggestion is the best one:


fenixpollo said:


> I'm going to visit the United States and other countries in the Americas.


Although I too understand @elroy's point regarding the usage of The Americas in daily English.



Chinairon said:


> the "Americas" is becoming more and more common both in English and Spanish.


Where do you live? I ask because I don't see any changes on the frecuency of use of Las Américas in Spain and I'd like to know in what Spanish speaking country (or countries) it's becomming popular.


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## gengo

I can see Elroy's point.  If I were living in Europe and telling a friend about my planned travels, I probably wouldn't say "I'm going to visit the United States and other countries in the Americas."  I would be much more likely to say "I'm going to visit the United States, Brazil, Costa Rica, and some other countries in the region." 

Tough question to answer, for sure.


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## duvija

I thought many times that English and Spanish have a different definition of 'continent', 'America/América', etc. It's not geography, but geopolitics. For us 'Central America' is very much part of América, and same for the Caribbean. Of course, we hate it when people of 'the North' call themselves "Americans' but ...  And I've heard many times that México is not in North America...


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## User With No Name

gengo said:


> Tough question to answer, for sure.


Certainly, and I don't disagree with any of the points that have been made.

Still, I continue to feel that if I had to translate a text--and it has happened to me--in Spanish that mentioned "países americanos" or "América" (not referring just to the U.S.), I really don't see any viable option other than some variation on "countries of the Americas" or "the Americas." I wouldn't be comfortable changing it to something like "countries in the region," even though that is what I would likely say if I were speaking.


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## elroy

User With No Name said:


> if I had to translate a text


 That would depend entirely on the text (and the register, the purpose of the translation, the target audience, etc.)!  I have only been commenting on Ballenero’s particular example.


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## gengo

duvija said:


> Of course, we hate it when people of 'the North' call themselves "Americans' but ...



I certainly understand why you dislike that name, but what else would we call ourselves?  The USA, unlike virtually every other country in the world, doesn't truly have a name, per se, and instead has a sort of descriptive name (one that is also ambiguous, since the United States of Mexico are also in America).  The reason for that goes back to the early history of this country, when first the colonies and then the states thought of themselves very strongly as independent governments, only loosely tied to the others.  That same thinking causes problems in our modern politics, but it is also the reason why we didn't choose a single "name" for our country.

The above may seem like topic drift, but I think it is closely related to the original question of this thread, which is how to translate the idea of "the Americas" from Spanish to English.

I think we all agree that the specific context is very important in such translation.


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## michelmontescuba

Ciertamente la descripción no es correcta. Incluso si hubiéran decidido "... de Norteamérica" estarían dejando fuera no solo a México sino a Canadá. El hecho es, que el nombre es el que es, y no creo que vaya a cambiar a simplemente "The United States", lo cual no sería una mala idea (lo digo con todo el respeto). Tampoco creo que la gente quiera dejar de llamarse "americans" para llamarse "people of the United States". En español sí que tenemos un término apropiado: "estadounidense".


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## cubaMania

I say "the Americas" when referring in English to South America, Central America, North America, and the Caribbean collectively.
It sounds perfectly natural, and usual to me.  I haven't encountered anyone who had any difficulty with the term (except in this thread.)
In my opinion "the Americas" is correct and normal English and fits the context.


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## Chinairon

Circunflejo said:


> Where do you live? I ask because I don't see any changes on the frecuency of use of Las Américas in Spain and I'd like to know in what Spanish speaking country (or countries) it's becomming popular.



My context is US and multiple backround in the Spanish-speaking Americas  . It's true that the Americas/las Américas might be used more in a formal setting than over drinks but in my bilingual, hemispheric line of work, it is a term we use frequently.



michelmontescuba said:


> El hecho es, que el nombre es el que es, y no creo que vaya a cambiar a simplemente "The United States", lo cual no sería una mala idea (lo digo con todo el respeto). Tampoco creo que la gente quiera dejar de llamarse "americans" para llamarse "people of the United States". En español sí que tenemos un término apropiado: "estadounidense".



Totalmente de acuerdo. No pretendo que los americanos dejen de llamarse "Americans", cada uno se llama lo que quiera. Lo que sí trato de comunicar cuando hablo con estadounidenses es que América abarca otros lugares. Bueno, ¡existe la palabra "United Statesian"! (Ver Merriam Webster) Sí, sí, ya sé que no se usa...


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## Amapolas

Chinairon said:


> the "Americas" is becoming more and more common both in English and Spanish.


¿Querés decir que has oído, o dicho, las Américas? ¿En qué país, si puedo preguntar?


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## Circunflejo

Amapolas said:


> ¿Querés decir que has oído, o dicho, las Américas? ¿En qué país, si puedo preguntar?


 A clue may be this previous post made by the same user:


Chinairon said:


> My context is US and multiple backround in the Spanish-speaking Americas  . It's true that the Americas/las Américas might be used more in a formal setting than over drinks but in my bilingual, hemispheric line of work, it is a term we use frequently.


P.S.: The main airport of Santo Domingo (in the Dominican Republic) is called Las Américas.


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## michelmontescuba

El término no está en desuso ni mucho menos; más bien es una especie de apelativo que se usa en ambientes académicos con cierta intencionalidad.


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