# Impossibly



## aisha93

السلام عليكم

ما هي الترجمة الصحيحة لهذه الكلمة؟
وجدت تعاريف عديدة لها ومن بينها هذه:

*Impossibly:* Used to describe an event or action that is so difficult or unlikely one would not expect it to be possible
_- he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep_

كيف يمكن ترجمتها في المثال السابق؟ هل هذه الترجمة صحيحة:
- أمسكها، ثم غطت في النوم على نحو لا يصدق

The definition is taken from Google Dictionary


----------



## آمين

Impossible = with great difficulty. 

بصعوبة

- - -

أمسكها، ثم غطت في النوم بصعوبة


----------



## Josh_

Another way to say 'impossibly' is بشكل مستحيل:

أمسكها، ثم غطت في النوم بشكل مستحيل.


----------



## إسكندراني

Josh_ , yours doesn't make sense, unfortunately. بصعوبة is suitable, or وما كادت


----------



## Josh_

True. After thinking about it, I see you're right.  It's too literal.

Truth be told, I thought the example phrase (which I see comes from the Oxford Dictionaries online) sounded quite odd (at least, stripped of the larger context). I probably would have used "with difficulty" in the original -- if that is what was meant. The (intended) meaning of 'impossibly' certainly isn't evident or easily discernible from that phrase (which, in my opinion, should be the object of providing sample phrases/sentences showing a word in context). At any rate, I shouldn't have tried to translate it literally.


----------



## Abu Talha

If I understand correctly, it seems that when "he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep" her falling asleep was something unexpected. Not that he put her to sleep with difficult effort. If such is the case then بصعوبة would not fit, would it?

How about 
ولما أمسكها غلبها النوم غريبًا/عجيبًا.


----------



## آمين

Abu Talha said:


> If I understand correctly, it seems that when "he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep" her falling asleep was something unexpected. Not that he put her to sleep with difficult effort. If such is the case then بصعوبة would not fit, would it?
> 
> How about
> ولما أمسكها غلبها النوم غريبًا/عجيبًا.



This is the Oxford dictionary entry:



> _[as  submodifier]_ so as to be impossible:_every task seemed impossibly difficult_
> 
> _ [sentence adverb]_ used to describe an event or action that is so difficult or unlikely one would not expect it to be possible:_he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep_



http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/impossibly

Good point. However, I don't think that is its primary meaning - the reference is of a 'difficult' task, not an unexpected one. Also - idiomatically Impossible is used for "very difficult". I cannot think of an example where it does mean 'unexpected'. 

- - -

Also isn't unexpected:

فجاة، غير متوقع

I thought Ajeeb means - strange, astonishing
Ghareeb = strange.


----------



## Crimson-Sky

Abu Talha said:


> If I understand correctly, it seems that when "he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep" her falling asleep was something unexpected. Not that he put her to sleep with difficult effort. If such is the case then بصعوبة would not fit, would it?
> 
> How about
> ولما أمسكها غلبها النوم غريبًا/عجيبًا.



I don't agree with your suggestion (ولما أمسكها, غلبها النوم بأعجوبة/بغرابة), but I find your understanding reasonable.


----------



## paieye

I have been following this discussion with a little concern: I have never encountered the usage of "impossibly" proposed by aisha93, probably because taken by itself the sentence is self-contradictory.  Self-contradiction is sometimes in English used rhetorically  --  one of our regular contributors likes to quote "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously"  --  but such usage is rare indeed, and is best left to experts.

It would therefore be safer and better English for "to his amazement" or perhaps "impossibly, as it seemed to him" to be substituted for "impossibly."


----------



## آمين

paieye said:


> I have been following this discussion with a little concern: I have never encountered the usage of "impossibly" proposed by aisha93, probably because taken by itself the sentence is self-contradictory.  Self-contradiction is sometimes in English used rhetorically  --  one of our regular contributors likes to quote "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously"  --  but such usage is rare indeed, and is best left to experts.
> 
> It would therefore be safer and better English for "to his amazement" or perhaps "impossibly, as it seemed to him" to be substituted for "impossibly."



The sentence is from Oxford dictionary - as a sample sentence - see my post above for the link. Impossibly is used in literature more to mean "difficult" task. . . rather than to covey something "unexpected".


----------



## paieye

I can only reiterate that it  must be a very rare example of rhetoric, and if this usage were to be adopted in the answer to an  examination-question, I should expect the examiner unhesitatingly to mark it as wrong.


----------



## إسكندراني

It's not that rare, it's just a literary device. These don't translate so well often. You can ask the English-only forumers but it's not that strange, but perhaps somewhat high register. It definitely isn't 'wrong'. In fact, it's quite eloquent. And even if we decided it was wrong, it is a direct quotation from the foremost authority on the English language


----------



## paieye

I am only trying to give the original questioner and those trying to help him a kindly warning that, while this sort of rhetoric is used in English, it is used at the risk of being misunderstood, just as irony is.

In  my opinion, this particular rhetorical device of deliberate self-contradiction is one for experts only.

By the way, can anyone give me an instance of this particular use of 'impossible'  in English literature ?  I cannot think of one, despite having been all my life immersed in the study of the English literature of the last 700 or so years.


----------



## آمين

I am somewhat revising my opinion on "impossibly" - in favour of its meaning being "unexpected". As indicated by the dictionary. Although in the above example it can mean that, I would have read it as "with great difficulty". 

However:



> In  my opinion, this particular rhetorical device of deliberate self-contradiction is one for experts only.



Even if you Google the word - you find many usages of the word. 

- - -



> By the way, can anyone give me an instance of this particular use of  'impossible'  in English literature ?  I cannot think of one, despite  having been all my life immersed in the study of the English literature  of the last 700 or so years.



Hmm. . . . it depends if Sci/Fi is literature to you. . . 

_"Now that the initial shock had worn  off, he could appreciate that it was quite a handsome beast. The name  'crab' which he had automatically given it was perhaps a little  misleading; if it had not been so impossibly large, he might have called  it a beetle."_

Rendezvous with Rama - Arthur C. Clarke

I would have been quite surprised if you could have thought of an example instantly! I read a lot, but able to think up usage of a particular word. . . that is beyond me!


----------



## paieye

The example that you give is indeed an excellent one of the use of this rhetorical device --   by an expert.


----------



## آمين

paieye said:


> The example that you give is indeed an excellent one of the use of this rhetorical device --   by an expert.



Ha, ha. . . but Children use it a lot. To moan! They equate impossible to mean "very difficult" 

- - -

"he could be impossible; but adorable to walk with on a morning like this"

Mrs Dalloway - Virginia Woolf. Many examples in the same book.

- - -

It was an impossible idea to get used to. No, not impossible. If I thought about Chris’s face when he said he was going to write to me, it was impossible, but if I forgot that and thought about the actual tin mailbox, empty, it was plain and true.

Alice Munro 

- - -
“He cannot be hardened in vice,” said Rose: “it is impossible.

Charles Dickens - Oliver Twist. 

- - -

I am sure there are plenty of examples. . .


----------



## dkarjala

That example is irrelevant because it is an adjectival adverb - we are talking about the verbal adverb:

"Impossibly, he made his way through the crowd" or something like that.

ِAlso, the additional examples are 'impossible' - not even the same word!

I guess I have just not seen this adverb used enough to understand it, because I automatically understood the originally posted sentence as meaning "He held her, and, shockingly, she fell asleep". I would love to see more examples or maybe context for the dictionary's example. 

I can't help but understand it as على خلاف المتوقع


----------



## آمين

dkarjala said:


> That example is irrelevant because it is an adjectival adverb - we are talking about the verbal adverb



It might be different but certainly not irrelevant. As the meaning conveyed is the same.  "_ impossibly large_" - in other words - surprisingly large. 

- - 

As the Oxford dictionary implies - there are 2 meanings either "difficult" or "surprisingly".


----------



## paieye

The point is not whether the word is used as an adjective or as an adverb, but whether it is used literally or rhetorically.  Your examples, Amin, from Woolf, Munro and Dickens are all of the word used literally, so will not help the original poster to take a decision.

I do not think that I can add to that, so this is my last on this topic !


----------



## dkarjala

paieye said:


> The point is not whether the word is used as an adjective or as an adverb, but whether it is used literally or rhetorically.  Your examples, Amin, from Woolf, Munro and Dickens are all of the word used literally, so will not help the original poster to take a decision.
> 
> I do not think that I can add to that, so this is my last on this topic !



A word is either an adjective or an adverb - it isn't a matter of usagein the majority of cases. The poster is asking about the word 'impossibly' *when modifying a verb*. There is no dispute about saying "impossibly large" or "impossible", but only about what it means to 'impossibly fall asleep' etc.


----------



## آمين

dkarjala said:


> A word is either an adjective or an adverb - it isn't a matter of usagein the majority of cases. The poster is asking about the word 'impossibly' *when modifying a verb*. There is no dispute about saying "impossibly large" or "impossible", but only about what it means to 'impossibly fall asleep' etc.



I disagree - it is not necessary that this is an adverb modifying a verb. 

"_he held her and, impossibly, she fell asleep_" On can argue the word "impossibly" is and "she fell asleep" are separate clauses. And impossibly is not just modifying the verb.

- - -

However like paieye. It is my last post.


----------



## eac

May I suggest أمسك بها ثم غفت، رغم استحالة ذلك الظاهرة ?


----------



## إسكندراني

I've started a thread on the English-only forum.

وكان قد ظن أن ذلك مستحيلا - وكان ذلك قد بدا مستحيلا
is quite a good equivalent


----------



## Crimson-Sky

إسكندراني said:


> I've started a thread on the English-only forum.
> 
> وكان قد ظن أن ذلك مستحيلا - وكان ذلك قد بدا مستحيلا
> is quite a good equivalent


You have made it easy for us now. Thank you .
أمسك بيدها وعَكْسَ كُل مُتَوَقَّع/وعَكْسَ المُتَوَقع اسْتَسْلَمَت لِنَوْمِها.


----------

