# ne plus ei tribuas, quam res et veritas ipsa concedat



## Pixie Chica

"Ne plus rei tribus, veritas ipsea concedant." Would appreciate translating this to English please.


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## NorthernLimitation

That's not Italian... is it Latin?

Well, from French I can tell you that 'ne plus' means 'no more' 
I'm guessing 'veritas' is 'truths' La verita meaning truth in Italian


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## Cagey

There is surely at least one mistake here, and I can see no simple remedy.  Perhaps it should be _concedat _instead of _concedant_ and i_psa_ instead of _ipsea._  But even so, it is difficult to construe.

Could you please tell us where found this?

A point of clarification: I suspect that there is an error in the original Latin, not that Pixie Chica necessarily copied it wrong.  However, it would be good to check.


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## london calling

I think this is where it comes from: Cicerone, De Oratore Liber 1 - 17 (Cicero, "Of/On an Orator")

[77] Verum si tibi ipsi nihil deest, quod in forensibus rebus civilibusque versatur, quin scias, neque eam tamen scientiam, quam adiungis oratori, complexus es, videamus *ne plus ei tribuamus quam res et veritas ipsa concedat." *

I found a translation done by William Guthrie Esq published in Boston in 1822 by R .P. & C. Williams, Cornhill-Square. The book was donated to the Harvard College Library:

_Let us therefore examine whether you do not require more than either the nature of the thing, or truth itself can admit of_


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## Cagey

london calling said:


> I think this is where it comes from: Cicerone, De Oratore Liber 1 - 17 (Cicero, "Of/On an Orator")
> 
> [77] Verum si tibi ipsi nihil deest, quod in forensibus rebus civilibusque versatur, quin scias, neque eam tamen scientiam, quam adiungis oratori, complexus es, videamus *ne plus ei tribuamus quam res et veritas ipsa concedat." *



Very nicely done! 

The Loeb edition of 1942 has a slightly different text, closer to the line in question.*videamus *ne plus ei tribuas, quam res et veritas ipsa concedat. *(_de Or_. 1.13.77)​A more literal translation of this version would be:_let us see_ (=videamus) _that you do not attribute more to him _[the orator]_ than the fact and the truth itself allow. _​*Variations like this are common in texts of ancient authors.  Changes have occurred as the work has been copied and recopied, and different editors make different decisions as to what the original was most likely to have been.  The version I have is from F. W. Sutton and H. Rackham, trans. Cicero: _De Oratore_. 2 Vols. (Loeb Classical Library, Cambridge [1942] 1979).


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## london calling

Cagey said:


> A more literal translation of this version would be:
> _let us see_ (=videamus) _that you do not attribute more to him _[the orator]_ than the fact and the truth itself allow. _
> 
> Brilliant!  I didn't even attempt my own translation: my knowledge of Latin is nowhere near good enough to tackle a "scholarly" translation like this!​Variations like this are common in texts of ancient authors. Very true!


Have a pleasant day!
Jo


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