# Urdu: PhaDDa پھڈّا



## Sheikh_14

Dear Foreros',

For some reason or another I cannot find the word phaDDa in online Urdu lexicons. Could someone kindly let me know how the word is spelt in urdu and what it would be defined as? So far as I am concerned a phaDDa is a ruckus and potentially a brawl.

best,
Sheikh


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## Alfaaz

While the older dictionaries don't appear to include this definition/usage in the entries for پھڈا, Urdu Lughat does give a separate entry here. The dictionary currently suggests (with uncertainty) that the word might possibly be from Sanskrit. This usage might be from local languages and/or a _relatively_ _recent development_...?!



> پھَڈّا {پھَڈ + ڈا} (سنسکرت
> 
> غالباً سنسکرت سے اردو میں ماخوذ ہے۔ بطور اسم استعمال ہوتا ہے اور سب سے پہلے 1971ء کو "غالب کون" میں تحریراً مستعمل ملتا ہے۔
> 
> *معانی*
> 1. جھگڑا، بکھیڑا، جھمیلا۔


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## desi4life

I didn't find any word similar to _phaDDa/phaDa _in Monier-Williams' Sanskrit dictionary. This word appears to only be used in Pakistan, so it's likely a borrowing from a local language into Pakistani Urdu.


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## marrish

Sheikh_14 said:


> Dear Foreros',
> 
> For some reason or another I cannot find the word phaDDa in online Urdu lexicons.Could someone kindly let me know how the word is spelt in Urdu


The question is a good one and has drawn my attention. We've got here the Urdu word:
*پھڈا *​transliterations:
Forum _*phaDDaa*_,
IPA pʱəɖɖɑ,
Devanagari फड्डा

Does it ring a bell with Urdu speakers? It certainly does with a lot of them so any comments are welcome when someone happens to search the word (that's why all these transliterations).
As Alfaaz SaaHib has shown, the situation appears to be that entries for this word are available only in online dictionaries of Urdu, while they are not found in printed ones. There are major lexicons of Urdu which don't attest it. Those major lexicons are dated so it can't be blamed on the them to miss out a word, on the other hand it's normal to expect that older lexicons with their historical attestations contain more vocabulary in general and indigenous vocabulary in particular as compared with the spoken language-in-use is rich at the time we consult them. The reverse has also been taking place as many words went to become obsolete and thus discarded. What comes next is that the history of lexicography of the South-Asian lanugages might provide a more detailed nsight but most of the writers, compilers and translators of the olden day used to base their word list on the available resources, with major changes in approach to both lemmas and glossas evolving over time. Available resources (dictionaries published earlier) inspired others to continue with both lists of words and their definitions, to modify them or to discard them. What is beyond doubt that thousands and thousands of published dictionaries continue it (even the Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary edited by Ronald Stuart McGregor, 1993 is mostly based on Platts' 1884 word list, as are so many other. Platts for himself relied on works of Shakespeare and Fallon, and so did some Urdu-Urdu lexicons). Then you get countless reprints and editions so no wonder online sources are still in minority.

You couldn't find this word online, the reason might be perhaps you used some writting signs or omitted some, that the online entries failed to appear.


Sheikh_14 said:


> ...and what it would be defined as? So far as I am concerned a phaDDa is a ruckus and potentially a brawl.
> 
> best,
> Sheikh


Yes, you are spot on with these meanings, they map very well onto these words, it has also other shades like 'row' 'rift' 'fight' 'altercation' 'misunderstanding' 'problem' 'worry', etc.


Alfaaz said:


> While the older dictionaries don't appear to include this definition/usage in the entries for پھڈا, Urdu Lughat does give a separate entry here. The dictionary currently suggests (with uncertainty) that the word might possibly be from Sanskrit. This usage might be from local languages and/or a _relatively_ _recent development_...?!


I have a similar view as said above; whether _phaDDaa_ occurs in the definitions or usage remains to be seen, many words used in definitions don't have separate entries in the traditional 100-200 old dictionaries. I think you have correctly translated the etymological part of the entry from Urdu LuGhat on urduencyclopedia.org (currently suggests (with uncertainty) that the word might possibly be from Sanskrit.) Let me continue to your last point:​


desi4life said:


> I didn't find any word similar to _phaDDa/phaDa _in Monier-Williams' Sanskrit dictionary. This word appears to only be used in Pakistan, so it's likely a borrowing from a local language into Pakistani Urdu.


Thanks for your contribution. It confirms that it's not so well known a word in India. About Monier-Williams, I didn't either. I looked up R.L. Turner's Etymological dictionary of Indo-Aryan Languages which appears more suitable for etymology of modern Indo-Aryan languages like Urdu than a Sanskrit dictionary, what's more Turner is an etymological dictionary (comparative). Not only does he not list this word for Sanskrit, neither he does for Prakrit, MIA or a bunch of NIA languages. If we are talking about an Urdu word, Sanskrit dictionaries are of no use to look it up. However I can understand how the implication of its absence/unfamiliarity in India, especially when it's not there in Sanskrit dictionaries can be regarded as a likely Pakistani phenomenon on basis of a local language substrate, as if Urdu was not a local Pakistani language. However I can't remember about Urdu speakers from India but I heard some Indian people using this word; there is also (sparse) evidence on the net it is known even in Hindi.


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> ... can be regarded as a likely Pakistani phenomenon on basis of a local language substrate, as if Urdu was not a local Pakistani language.


 While using the phrase _local languages_, I was just translating the description _maqaamii zabaan_ often used in Urdu Lughat when there isn't another clear origin (like Sanskrit, Prakrit, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, etc.). Here is a relevant example in the entry for _lafRaa_, which has a similar meaning to _phaDDaa _(also listed in the definition):


> لَفْڑا {لَف + ڑا} (مقامی
> 
> مقامی زبان سے ماخوذ اسم ہے۔
> 
> *معانی*
> 1. عورات } جھگڑا، *پھڈا *نیز مصیبت، وبال۔


This article suggest that it might be a Punjabi word:


> ہاں پنجابی میں ایک لفظ ’’پھڈا‘‘ ضرور موجود ہے جو سٹینڈ آف کے مرادی مفہوم کے قریب قریب چلا جاتا ہے





			
				desi4life said:
			
		

> This word appears to only be used in Pakistan, so it's likely a borrowing from a local language into Pakistani Urdu.





			
				marrish said:
			
		

> However I can't remember about Urdu speakers from India but I heard some Indian people using this word; there is also (sparse) evidence on the net it is known even in Hindi.


 Here is an example from Hindi (with the commonly observed switching of _ph_ to _f_):


> *Fadda
> *
> Noun: Problem/Complication
> 
> Example: _"Ek _*fadda*_ ho gaya hai". (There has been a problem)._


 Corrections of any misconceptions would be appreciated, but it seems (from portrayals in Pakistani media and Indian media) that both _phaDDaa _and _lafRaa _are associated with slang...?!


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## Maharaj

I have never heard of this word in India. It might be in usage in Punjab-Haryana.


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## Sheikh_14

Maharaj said:


> I have never heard of this word in India. It might be in usage in Punjab-Haryana.


 That's quite interesting given that I have heard Hindi speakers use faDDaa instead. I thought that I might be inadvertently ignoring its usage in Hindi, but it appears to be more of an Urdu construct than a mutual one. With regards to lafRaa I would contend that it is probably Tapoorii i.e. Mumbai slang and not necessarily liked across the border, it's quite often considered to be crass. In any case excellent work Maarish saaHib and Alfaaz jee. I would have thought that phaDDaa was in fact written as phaDDah since its plural form is phaDDe but that's clearly not the case. Another English term that would fit right in or map right on to its various connotations is beef, as in what's your beef with someone? Tumhaaraa kyaa phaDDaa has us se? PhaDDa is a word which is acceptable at the dinner table and therefore deemed a palatable colloquial term on the other hand, lafRaa may have gained currency due to its prevalence in Bollywood culture across the border but it continues to be viewed as the language of the street i.e. galli-kuuche kii, bazaarii, sastii zabaan etc.


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## Maharaj

@Sheikh_14 Lafda is a very general word used across India, it's not specific to Mumbai slang.


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## Sheikh_14

Thanks correctly or incorrectly it's perceived that way in Pakistan. People would suspect you lack basic decency if you were to use the word in a family environment, amongst youths it's considered ok.


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## desi4life

Sheikh_14 said:


> I would have thought that phaDDaa was in fact written as phaDDah since its plural form is phaDDe but that's clearly not the case.



What would you suggest the plural of _phaDDaa _to be if not _phaDDe_?


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## Sheikh_14

It is indeed phaDDe!


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## desi4life

I thought you were implying _phaDDaa _should have a different plural than a hypothetical _phaDDah._


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## Sheikh_14

yes usually words ending in alif would have a plural form ending with aaoN. I thought initially that phaDDaa ended with a chhoTii he which is why its plural form is phaDDe (in such a case we would have transliterated it's singular as phaDDa).


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## desi4life

Sheikh_14 said:


> yes usually words ending in alif would have a plural form ending with aaoN.



No, most nouns ending in -aa are masculine and usually have a direct plural with -e and oblique plural with -oN. I believe _phaDDaa _fits this aforementioned category. Only a small number of masculine nouns ending in -aa have an oblique plural with -aaoN.


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## Sheikh_14

Quite possibly, the only example I can think of at the top of my head is pyaaraa and pyaare which would fit the mould you are after. However, with those that end with chhoTii he its always oN and e


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## desi4life

It's not my intention to make a collective list because there are thousands of such words. As I said, this is usual for most masculine nouns ending in -aa. Here are a few to jog your memory: lafRaa > lafRe, gaanaa > gaane, jhagRaa > jhagRe, kuttaa > kutte, laRkaa > laRke, taaraa > taare, jaalaa > jaale, naalaa > naale, etc.


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## marrish

Maharaj said:


> I have never heard of this word in India. It might be in usage in Punjab-Haryana.


It would be great if you could check it, its usage by Urdu speakers especially.


Alfaaz said:


> While using the phrase _local languages_, I was just translating the description _maqaamii zabaan_ often used in Urdu Lughat when there isn't another clear origin (like Sanskrit, Prakrit, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, etc.). Here is a relevant example in the entry for _lafRaa_, which has a similar meaning to _phaDDaa _(also listed in the definition): [...]


I had missed out the mention of a local language from your post when I was writing mine; these indications of origin are frequently doubtful if not incorrect in _Urdu LuGhat_. I'm not saying '_maqaamii zabaan_' doesn't mean 'a local language', only that such a language doesn't even need to be geographically local Pakistani one. Awadhi, Purvi, Bhojpuri, Marwari and many other languages are just some examples of local languages words entered Urdu from. It can also overlap with what in Hindi they describe as _desha-ja_ देशज ±دیسی زاد، دیس جنا (local-origin) words borrowed from non-IA languages. It can be just internal within Urdu, constituting an evolution of unlisted/undocumented words from the Middle/New IA stock.​


Alfaaz said:


> This article suggest that it might be a Punjabi word: [...]


Indeed the journalist says 'There is a Punjabi word 'phaDDaa'...' however I couldn't find it in Punjabi dictionaries.

Your and Maharaj's suggestions rightly went towards slang notions: indeed, this word is Urdu slang, for this reason it might not have been included in major Urdu lexicons. I have checked it with 'the First Urdu Slang Dictionary: ڈاکٹر رؤف پاریکھ , اوّلین اردو سلینگ لغت، ۲۰۰۶ کراچی، پاکستان [awwaliin urduu slaiNg luGhat, Dr. Rauf Parekh 2006, Karachi, Pakistan] and lo! behold! it is there:​پھڈّا [ ڈ مشدد ]: جھگڑا، لڑائی، مار پیٹ، بحث و تکرار، مصیبت، پریشانی۔
(نیز دیکھیے: لفڑا)
❊
ہر وقت کچھ نہ کچھ پھڈا اور لفڑا ہوتا رہتا ہے۔
(مشتاق احمد یوسفی، آبِ گم، ۶۷)

❊
کہا تھا دوستی اتنوں سے مت کر
بوقت عقد پھڈا ہوگیا نا
(از راہِ عنایت، عنایت علی خان، ۹۲)

❊
یہاں پر کون کسی کے پھڈے میں پڑتا ہے۔
(عبد اللطیف ابوشامل، سو ہے وہ بھی آدمی، ۱۰۴)
​(Transliteration):

*phaDDaa* [*D* mushaddad (geminated)] : jhagRaa, laRaa’ii, maar piiT, baHs-o-takraar, musiibat, pareshaanii.
(niiz dekhiye: lafRaa)

❊ har waqt kuchh nah kuchh phaDDaa aur lafRaa hotaa rahtaa hae.
(Mushtaq Ahmad Yusufi, Aab-e-gum, 67)

❊  kahaa thaa dostii itnoN se mat kar
bawaqt-e-3aqd phaDDaa hogayaa naa
(az raah-e-3inaayat, Inayat Ali Khan, 92)

❊ yahaaN par kaun kisii ke phaDDe meN paRtaa hae.
(Abdul Latif Abu Shamil, so hae wuh bhii aadamii, 104)

While this dictionary very frequently [I can't say if always] gives the origin of Punjabi loanwords, in this entry there is no indication of Punjabi origin /any indication of origin, which implies lack of linkage to Punjabi.


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## desi4life

marrish said:


> However I can understand how the implication of its absence/unfamiliarity in India, especially when it's not there in Sanskrit dictionaries can be regarded as a likely Pakistani phenomenon on basis of a local language substrate, as if Urdu was not a local Pakistani language.



I checked a Sanskrit dictionary because of a suggestion the word might be from Sanskrit. Of course, its absence in Sanskrit has no bearing on whether it's used in India. My impression was that the word is only used in Pakistan, which may not be true; but if true, it would suggest local language influence in Pakistan.


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## Maharaj

marrish said:


> It would be great if you could check it, its usage by Urdu speakers especially.


Indian Hindi and Urdu speakers don't recognize this word.


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## psd127

In Punjabi and in punjabiazed Hindi it means trouble or fight or brawl. I think it came from Arabic word Fauda which means Chaos. The word seems adapted a little bit. But we see the words of Arabic, Farsi and Persian origins, very well woven in Indian languages.


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## Qureshpor

I have heard this word in Punjabi from my childhood. I would say it is a Punjabi word borrowed into other subcontinental languages. Anyone who has access to a Punjabi dictionary should be able to confirm this.


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## اِمراہِیل

This site has an entry on it here:

Urdu Lughat


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## Maharaj

Maharaj said:


> Indian Hindi and Urdu speakers don't recognize this word.


Update: I heard Salman Khan saying Phadda in Bigg Boss.


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