# [Insert-nationality-here]-Americans



## Jacob

A lot of times Americans will feel some sort of connection to the country and the people of the country where their ancestors came from so they'll say that they're Irish, Italian, German, etc. Sometimes they'll add American after it (ie Italian-American) but most times they won't. My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


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## vince

As my signature says, I judge based on culture, not on race

If someone is culturally American, then that's all I see in them--they're American, that's all. No matter what their color skin/hair/eyes are.

If someone has American citizenship, but immigrated from Russia, say. And continues to talk Russian with family, has mostly friends who are Russian, and continues to identify most with Russian culture, then I see them as a Russian or Russian-American.

I know someone who has Canadian citizenship but immigrated from Venezuela (where he was born). He continues to identify with Latin American culture. Society would consider him to be racially "Asian" (his parents are from Hong Kong), but I  view him as a Venezuelan-Canadian, not Chinese-Canadian.


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## don maico

well if someone could point out some English/ Americans I might feel a connection. It all depends on how connected they feel to their mother country. On the other hand I would also prefer if they were liberal and not deeply associated with old puritanical values which the UK has now largely eschewed


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## bernik

_"My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?"_

I am asking myself the same question in reverse. When I think of Americans with Breton ancestry, I wonder if they feel some connection with Brittany. On both sides of the Atlantic, we wonder what people who share (part of) our ancestry are thinking...

I've heard of Europeans who paid a visit to their American cousins. They had never seen each other, and they found people who looked like family, but spoke a different language and acted like Americans. It must feel a little strange !


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## mjscott

My grandparents were from the Azores. My father said, "I am Portuguese." Of course, that was then--now, they put the tail -American on just about everything. My daughter's fiance is Black. Some say that he is African-American--even though his ancestry can be traced back in the US for centuries on both sides and with all four grandparents. Growing up (in the '50's) I would say, "I am half Portuguese....
....Of course, the Portuguese are known for pride (to the point of haughtiness to some) in their ancestry. My children grew up saying they were one-quarter Portuguese. The Portuguese shouted out so very loudly that I am not sure they could tell you what else they have, blood-wise. Culture-wise, they are 100% American (US).


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## zena168

It’s bizarre!!  I connect more with people who are bicultural and multilingual rather (mostly 2nd generation migrants) than people of my own birth country or ancestry.  I find them generally more open minded about a lot of things.  People who are blindly patriotic or religious just forces me to watch everything I say so I don’t offend them too much.  But when their religious or “my country…” remarks seems unjust to me, it isn’t exactly the best thing for me to give out my opinion during those times.  I prefer to converse with people who are less biased and open to things.  I’m not saying I don’t love America but people can be pretty ignorant sometimes.


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## don maico

Probably because its easier to isolate oneself ffrom the outside world an all it influences. The UK by contrast, being much smaller, is continually being influenced not least from the US itself

I wonder how many US citizens can trace their lineage back to the original settlers?


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## mjscott

Most Mormons can.


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## zena168

don maico said:


> Probably because its easier to isolate oneself ffrom the outside world an all it influences. The UK by contrast, being much smaller, is continually being influenced not least from the US itself
> 
> I wonder how many US citizens can trace their lineage back to the original settlers?


Mmmm....  I think that might be it!


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## mirx

Born-Americans with direct Mexican ancestry, that is, whose parents are Mexican, are not considered US-Americans but they are further away from being considered Mexicans. They all carry certain stigma until the 3rd or 4th generation.

As for Mexicans born in México but with direct foreign ancestry, most of them are referred to as the "son of the Turk", or "Phillip of the Galicians", however when they grow up and make a name for themselves they stop carrying their families' background. This again, is not only for Mexicans born to foreign parents, but rather to all Mexicans given how important family is in Mexican societies.

I think that it was you asked, when you referred to non-Americans, with relatives born or raised in the States.


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## palomnik

It also depends on which area of the country you live in. In the US Northeasterners in general identify with their ethnic origins more than people in other areas of the country. In New York, for example, it is a common question to ask where someone's family came from, although it's much less likely to be asked in other areas of the country.

And yes, in general people in the Northeast US tend to feel a connection with people from the same ethnic background. As you go further west it gets less common. And also, a fair number of Americans can trace back their ancestry, although there are a lot also that don't know and don't care.

The curious part of this is that Americans from various ethnic groups in fact usually have relatively little in common with people from the Old Country. This is not surprising; societies change, and the families that emigrated did not participate in the social changes that affected the mother country.

But a lot depends on the cultural image that any given culture has. Some cultures, like Greeks, consider you to be Greek if that's your heritage, regardless of where you are born. Others like the Irish generally don't view someone born in the US or Australia as "Irish" just because they have an Irish last name.


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## alexacohen

_"My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?"_

No, we do not. At least I know no one in Spain who does.

Americans are Americans (or, stricktly speaking, _unitedstatesian_), Mexicans are Mexicans, Canadians are Canadians no matter where their ancestors might have come from.


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## federicoft

alexacohen said:


> _"My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?"_
> 
> No, we do not. At least I know no one in Spain who does.



Neither do we.

I've heard many US Americans declaring themselves "German/Dutch/Norwegian/Italian" just because they have some ancestor from there, even if they can't speak a single word of the language nor they know anything about local culture. 

I always found that pretty strange.


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## katie_here

I'm very influenced by accent.  I assoicate people by the accent they have.  In this country, I do the same.  I have friends who's parents are from Pakistan but they have local accents, so to me, they are English.  I am of mixed countries, my father being from Denmark, but I'm English, my brother, same parents, brought up in Denmark, is Danish, even though we both have the same parents we look at each other differently, because of our birth places. 

I think if someone came from America and said they were my family, I would welcome them, but they'd still be Americans.


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## Xiroi

palomnik said:


> The curious part of this is that Americans from various ethnic groups in fact usually have relatively little in common with people from the Old Country. This is not surprising; societies change, and the families that emigrated did not participate in the social changes that affected the mother country.


I absolutely agree. Besides there's the fact that they normally emigrated from rural areas and they normally move back to big cities so the change is even bigger. The country they were taught to love simply doesn't exist anymore.

There was hardly any immigrantion from Spain to the US (scientist and researchrs and Julio Iglesias don't really count) but there are loads in countries like Argentina. They may say whatever they want, even if it's understandable people often feel the need to belong somewhere and it can become some kind of family identity, we hardly see them as Spaniards, not only because they speak different, it's all about the culture, the mentality, the non-spoken codes, and the clothes, the style... it gives them away immediately. 

I know a lot of Italians and when this subject has come up they seem to agree. Second generation American Italians are not perceived as real Italians. If an American Italian would move to Milano, he would hardly feel he's in the country his grandparents from Sicily described to him. Half naked women dancing at any tv quiz show is something neither he nor his grandmother would consider perfectly natural.

EDIT: Federico you hadn't posted your message when I started to write my reply. I didn't mean to repeat your words. Good to see we agree.


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## alexacohen

Xiroi said:


> There was hardly any immigrantion from Spain to the US (scientist and researchrs and Julio Iglesias don't really count) but there are loads in countries like Argentina.


 
There was a big flow of inmigrants from Galicia to the US during the first years of the XXth century, usually they settled in New York or New Jersey.

Their descendants are not considered either Galician or Spanish or Galician-Spanish Americans or whatever they are called in the US.

They're Americans, even though their names be still Souto, Castro, Limia, Pereira, Mosteiro.

The concept of claiming a nationality because one of your great-grandfathers was born somewhere else is utterly alien to me, and to every Spaniard I know.


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## ivanovic77

Sorry, but I have to disagree slightly with my fellow Spanish foreros who have posted before. According to the question in the starting post:



Jacob said:


> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same *connection* with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


 
Maybe it's not exactly the same connection, but Spaniards certainly feel a special connection with the foreign descendants of Spanish origin. For instance, the Spanish Government has recently made a few amendments to the Civil Code that will offer foreign-born children and grandchildren of Spanish people who migrated to America (mainly Argentina) the possibility to get the Spanish nationality [*]. So, yes, I think it's clear that there is an obvious connection with Spanish descendants here in Spain since it is even expressed in the Civil Code. If your grandparents were Spaniards, you can get the Spanish nationality whenever you want.

With regard to the US, I think many Americans are proud of their European origin because, living in such a hotbed of multi-ethnicity which is America, they need to reinforce their sense of belonging to a culture or community. But, on the other hand, European nations are also proud of having descendants in the US who have contributed to the development of the first economic superpower in the world.

So yes, there's obviously a connection or 'sense of identification' between New and Old Worlders, if that was the first question. Maybe it's not exactly the same connection, and we could discuss here what are the differences and nuances between the connection Americans feel with 'Old Worlders' and the connection "Old Worlders" feel with Americans.


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## alexacohen

ivanovic77 said:


> (...) For instance, the Spanish Government has recently made a few amendments to the Civil Code that will offer foreign-born children and grandchildren of Spanish people who migrated to America (mainly Argentina) the possibility to get the Spanish nationality.


 
But that's a matter of politicians searching for voters, and no more. The people who return to the country that was once the birthplace of their grandparents will be considered either Argentinian or Spanish (the latter only if they become _culturally_ Spaniards). But not Argentinian-Spanish.

I am not considered a Polish/American Spaniard simply because my grandmother was Polish and my grandfather was American.


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## chics

> Maybe it's not exactly the same connection, but Spaniards certainly feel a special connection with the foreign descendants of Spanish origin.


I confirm Alexa's words, to us, the Spaniards, they aren't Spaniards.

We find very odd that Argentinians and Americans who claime another nationatily just because they have an old ancestre of that nationality. To us they are simply Argentinians or Americans, no more at all.

We only can comment the fact that we have a granfather, for exemple, of another nationality (but without considering us of the same nationality) as a possible punctual comment or curiosity when someone says that our surname sounds foreigner "oh, yes, my grandfather came from the Eastern Europe".

Only in cases when the mother comes from a country and the father from another, you may here "I'm half A and half B" but not always, or when the parents of a child born in Spain have another nationality, he may say (or not!) "I'm half A and half B" or "I'm Spanish but my parents come from B" always in particular contexts.

In France I've noticed that, even in the case "mother and father from another country" they are always considered French, and both they and the Frenchs would get easily angry if someother comment something like "but you're also a bit of B, being your parents and all your familly B".

I'd say that in Europe, in general, it doesn't have any sens to us: we'd be all German, Italian, Turquish, Italian, Iranian and many more.


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## ivanovic77

chics said:


> I confirm Alexa's words, to us, the Spaniards, they aren't Spaniards.


 
I think we are mixing up concepts here. I was talking about connection or identification with people of other nationalities whose ancestors came from your same country, which is, from what I understand, one of the main subjects this thread is about. Let's quote the starting question again:



Jacob said:


> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same *connection* with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


 
I understand we are talking about *feeling a connection with* and not about whether we consider them compatriots or not. If we are talking about connection, I think it's fairly evident that there is a connection or sympathy toward people whose ancestors came from your same country. Just an example: Almost every Spaniard who knows that Rita Hayworth and Martin Sheen are partly of Spanish origin will proudly let you know it every time they have the opportunity.

And I'm sure that Italians feel some kind of pride or 'connection' every time they see a successful American with an Italian surname, like, to continue with movie-related examples, Robert de Niro or Francis Ford Coppola.

It seems that national pride plays an important role in this matter.


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## Xiroi

ivanovic77 said:


> Just an example: Almost every Spaniard who knows that Rita Hayworth and Martin Sheen are partly of Spanish origin will proudly let you know it every time they have the opportunity.


Personally I take no pride in things like that. Sharing the same nationality to me is more like an accident rather than some kind of personal achievement to be proud of. I'd mention it just as a commonly unkown fact, a curiosity (did you know Rita Hayworth started her career dancing flamenco? Did you know Bruce Springsteen wasn't allowed to record any albums for three years due to legal problems with his manager? Same kind of stuff to me). But as the original question goes 



Jacob said:


> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


 my answer is no, I don't feel any special connection, unless culturally we share a common background, as mentioned in other posts here and yes, I see them as Americans. 

You provided a couple of good examples: Rita Hayworth's father was Spanish but to me she was American. And apparently she thought that too. When she moved back to America after having divorced Agha Khan her words were something like "I'm an all-American girl happy to be back home and I just can't wait to have a hot dog". Martin Sheen is American to me, so are his children, even the one who chose to use his real name, Emilio Estévez. Do you consider Elsa Pataky Romanian because her grandfather was from that country?

I feel a closer "connection" with Gwyneth Paltrow or Ian Gibson (who are not Spanish but they are kind of a bit) than with Charlie Sheen, even if I must say he does look Spanish (he looked exactly like my best friend in high school/university).


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## ivanovic77

Xiroi said:


> Sharing the same nationality to me is more like an accident rather than some kind of personal achievement to be proud of.


 
If you consider nationalities, ancestors or family ties more like an 'emotionless' accident, I have no choice but to believe you, but that's not a sentiment shared by the majority of people in the world, I dare say.



Xiroi said:


> You provided a couple of good examples: Rita Hayworth's father was Spanish but to me she was American. And apparently she thought that too. When she moved back to America after having divorced Agha Khan her words were something like "I'm an all-American girl happy to be back home and I just can't wait to have a hot dog". Martin Sheen is American to me, so are his children, even the one who chose to use his real name, Emilio Estévez. Do you consider Elsa Pataky Romanian because her grandfather was from that country?


 
No, I don't, but most likely Romanians living in Spain will feel some kind of additional sympathy toward her if they are told that her grandfather was from Romania. You can bet on it. Regarding Rita Hayworth and Martin Sheen, remember, I'm talking about connection/sympathy, not about whether we consider them Spaniards or not. It's pretty evident that they are Americans, but it is also evident that many Spaniards will talk to you about Rita Hayworth with more interest and enthusiasm than, for example, about Ingrid Bergman. 



Xiroi said:


> I feel a closer "connection" with Gwyneth Paltrow or Ian Gibson (who are not Spanish but they are kind of a bit) than with Charlie Sheen, even if I must say he does look Spanish (he looked exactly like my best friend in high school/university).


 
So, from what I understand from your words, you're indirectly admitting that you feel some kind of connection even with Charlie Sheen. You feel a closer connection with the first two, so you feel a connection too (though not so close) with the latter, to the point that he even reminds you of a friend. Let's face it, when it comes to nationality, ethnicity, genealogy, family ties, etc., it is hard to see it as an emotionless accident or a mere curiosity. I think there are deep feelings involved in this matter that shouldn't be overlooked.


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## Athaulf

Jacob said:


> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?



In the case of Croatia (and, I suspect, any other country too), the answer depends on whether you're asking about people's personal friends, relatives, and acquaintances or public personalities. 

When it comes to public personalities, Croatians are often obsessively proud of famous people who have Croatian ancestry, even if they lived most or even all of their lives in the U.S. and made all of their significant contributions there. The same is true for other neighboring peoples. A good example is the case of the famous American inventor Nikola Tesla, who was an ethnic Serb born in a village which is nowadays on the territory of Croatia (along with the rest of today's Croatia, it was a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire back then). Nowadays, many Croats and Serbs are obsessively claiming Tesla as a part of their national heritage, and in fact, Croatian and Serbian nationalists have a major dispute over who has the right to claim Tesla as "theirs". Of course, both sides' arguments are entirely silly, since Tesla spent his entire working life and career in the U.S., except for a few early years in Hungary and France. Thus, Americans are the only ones for whom it makes any sense to be proud of Tesla, since it was the American social and economic system that enabled him to achieve his discoveries, not the fact that he was an ethic Serb or born in the present territory of Croatia. The same is true for other famous Americans with ethnic roots from the Balkans, of course.

As for the personal connections between people, the situation is more complex. Croatians who were born in the U.S. or Canada, or who came there as children, tend to be highly conscious and proud of their Croatian heritage and their friends and extended families in Croatia, often to the point of assuming ridiculous ultra-nationalist positions. However, their connections with Croatia are usually very superficial. They are typically clueless about the actual social and political situation in Croatia, they often speak very poor Croatian (I have yet to meet a person from North America who speaks both English and Croatian like a real native speaker), and, without exception, their worldview and personality shows far more influence of the local North American culture in which they grew up than their Croatian heritage. Thus, Croatian-Americans are often an object of derision in Croatia, since their nationalism comes off as hilarious or pathetic for these reasons. Still, most people in Croatia would grant that they have the right to consider themselves Croatian and get Croatian citizenship if they wish. So, to answer your question, there is some connection, but it's complex.


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## chics

> I was talking about connection or identification with people of other nationalities whose ancestors came from your same country


No, I wasn't mixing things: I don't think that we feel a special connection with an American (or other) 100% American, who hasn't ever been in Spain, spoken Spanish and doesn't know our culture; only because he says that the father of his grandmother was Spaniard. Do you? It would surprise me.

I don't see any sort of pride with Jennifer López, for example; or other Americans with Spanish names. On the contrary, if some foreigner tell us "oh, that spaniard person" most of people will answer, here, "no, she's American". Even Antonio Banderas is considered half-American...


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## Xiroi

ivanovic77 said:


> If you consider nationalities, ancestors or family ties more like an 'emotionless' accident, I have no choice but to believe you, but that's not a sentiment shared by the majority of people in the world, I dare say.


 
No, I never said that. My ancestors are not an emotionless accident yet I do believe that the fact that a perfect stranger has ancestors from my country (and I mean we don't have the same great great grandfather) certainly IS an emotionless accident. So I take no pride in the fact the Rita Hayworth's father was Spanish and therefore consider her as Spanish. Just as I don't think of Elsa Pataky as a Romanian.



ivanovic77 said:


> No, I don't, but most likely Romanians living in Spain will feel some kind of additional sympathy toward her if they are told that her grandfather was from Romania. You can bet on it. Regarding Rita Hayworth and Martin Sheen, remember, I'm talking about connection/sympathy, not about whether we consider them Spaniards or not. It's pretty evident that they are Americans, but it is also evident that many Spaniards will talk to you about Rita Hayworth with more interest and enthusiasm than, for example, about Ingrid Bergman.


 
No idea on how much connected to Rita Hayworth people feel when compared to Ingrid Bergman, no idea either if it's a well known fact that she had a Spanish father and therefore she's normally perceived as Spanish or people feel a certain connection with her. I certainly don't. Can't speak about how the Romanians feel about Elsa Pataky either.



ivanovic77 said:


> So, from what I understand from your words, you're indirectly admitting that you feel some kind of connection even with Charlie Sheen. You feel a closer connection with the first two, so you feel a connection too (though not so close) with the latter, to the point that he even reminds you of a friend. Let's face it, when it comes to nationality, ethnicity, genealogy, family ties, etc., it is hard to see it as an emotionless accident or a mere curiosity. I think there are deep feelings involved in this matter that shouldn't be overlooked.


God, no. Where did you get that? I never admitted directly or indirectly that! 

I clearly said I don't perceive as Spanish/feel a connection with Martin Sheen or any of his children, even if one of them (Charlie) actually looks Spanish and even looked like one of my best friends and I say he DOES look Spanish (Rita Hayworth didn't, really). He reminds me of my friend because they have the same looks (hair, nose, face shape, lips), and I liked his performance in Wall Street because of his acting, not because of some obscure emotional connection due to his father's ancestors. And they were not relatives either, in case you wonder. I said I do consider Gwyneth Paltrow and Ian Gibson (not the Sheens) "kind of Spanish". Especially Ian Gibson, obviously.


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## alexacohen

ivanovic77 said:


> I understand we are talking about *feeling a connection with* and not about whether we consider them compatriots or not. If we are talking about connection, I think it's fairly evident that there is a connection or sympathy toward people whose ancestors came from your same country.


I understood we were talking about the connection some people may feel with the country where their great grandparents came from, and that makes them identify themselves as Swedish-German-Spanish even when many times they can´t speak a word of Swedish, German, Spanish, they know nothing of the culture, the way of living, and even ignore the exact location of the countries in question.



> Originally Posted by *Jacob*
> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


And I concur with the rest of the Spanish people posting on this thread (but you) who have said that Spaniards, generally speaking, do not have any such feeling at all.

You might ask the Duchess of Alba, whose surname is _FitzJames Stuart_, if she is British-Spanish. Or _Bertín Osborne, Pedro Domecq, Esther Koplowicz, Enrique Herzog, Jorge Verstrynge, Tomás Terry, Miguel Boyer, Shayla Morales..._ the list is endless.


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## sokol

Jacob said:


> My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


Austrians usually do not feel a special connection to Americans of Austrian origin - but there are exceptions.

Most Austrians _do _know that Arnold Schwarzenegger, present governor of California, is of Austrian origin, and wether they like him or not many still are proud that someone born in Austria did achieve what he did.
And of course Austrians also identify for example with ice-hockey players from overseas returning to Austria and playing for the national hockey team (well, most of those actually are Austro-Canadians, but it is the principle which matters ).

Also Austrians _may _identify with Americans claiming that they have Austrian roots when they meet them even if they are "ordinary citizens"; it is not such a common thing as for example for Croats (as described by Athaulf) and Hungarians (or at least _Austrians _think that Hungarians identify very much with Hungarians living abroad) but it does exist.


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## ivanovic77

alexacohen said:


> And I concur with the rest of the Spanish people posting on this thread (but you) who have said that Spaniards, generally speaking, do not have any such feeling at all.
> 
> You might ask the Duchess of Alba, whose surname is _FitzJames Stuart_, if she is British-Spanish. Or _Bertín Osborne, Pedro Domecq, Esther Koplowicz, Enrique Herzog, Jorge Verstrynge, Tomás Terry, Miguel Boyer, Shayla Morales..._ the list is endless


 
Please note that you are not answering the question the original poster asked. It seems Jacob just wanted to know how we perceive Americans whose ancestors came from our country and if we feel a connection with them. I was restricting my answer to what I understand the original poster is asking. These people you have mentioned are not Americans of Spanish origin.

Maybe the disagreement comes from here and we are talking about different things.


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## jinti

A comment from a US point of view:

Many (many, many, many) years ago, I was an exchange student to Japan.  My Japanese wasn't great and I made plenty of cultural mistakes, but people were generally very gracious and forgiving about it all.  Several fellow exchange students who were Americans of Japanese ancestry had different experiences.  They used to complain about being held to much higher standards than the rest of us because they were expected to act/speak Japanese even when people knew they were from the US, not Japan.  The idea seemed to have been "you should know; you're Japanese."


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## Grop

chics said:


> I don't think that we feel a special connection with an American (or other) 100% American, who hasn't ever been in Spain, spoken Spanish and doesn't know our culture; only because he says that the father of his grandmother was Spaniard. Do you? It would surprise me.



Likewise I, and I think most French people, are completely indifferent to Americans who happen to have French origins.

(Native French-speaking Canadians are a different story; but they know or understand much about our culture).

What, half-Gauls? Do they have N/2 names for cheese?


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## alexacohen

> Originally Posted by *ivanovic77*
> Please note that you are not answering the question the original poster asked.


I believe I am, but if you don´t, you should click on the "report a post" (the red triangle) button to inform the mods of any off topic posts you find.


> Originally Posted by *ivanovic77*
> It seems Jacob just wanted to know how we perceive Americans whose ancestors came from our country and if we feel a connection with them. I was restricting my answer to what I understand the original poster is asking. These people you have mentioned are not Americans of Spanish origin.


No, they are Spaniards whose ancestors are British, French, German, and who do not identify themselves with the country where their great grandparents came from. 


> Originally Posted by *ivanovic77*
> Maybe the disagreement comes from here and we are talking about different things.


Possibly. 


> Originally Posted by *Jacob*
> A lot of times Americans will feel some sort of connection to the country and the people of the country where their ancestors came from so they'll say that they're Irish, Italian, German, etc. Sometimes they'll add American after it (ie Italian-American) but most times they won't. My question is do you (people not from the US) feel that same connection with Americans whose ancestors came from your country or do you see them as just another American?


He might have been interested in knowing that Spaniards (usually) would not say or feel that they were American for the sole reason that some of their ancestors happened to be born in America a long time ago.

If mods consider I wandered off topic they should delete all of my posts.


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## Mate

*Moderator note*:


While most of the recent posts have had valuable insights they are focused more on personal opinions than on cultural content. 

Thank you for your participation in this thread. It has been very interesting to follow. However, in order to remain open, a Cultural Discussions thread  must include more cultural insight/perspective than has been the case lately.


Thank you for your understanding.


*Thread closed*.


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