# 来なくなったんです



## jackswitch

Hi all,

I've been reading a simple Japanese story ("Who Is She?") lately and came across something I'd like to understand. In the story, a woman is complaining that she and her brother used to send letters to each other every week, but suddenly he stopped sending them.

First, she says: 兄からメールが*こなくなりました*。

Then later on, when someone suggests "perhaps it was simply because he was busy," she argues:

でも、兄からまったくメールが*来なくなったんです*。

Could someone please explain the difference between these two phrases? My guess is:

1. My brother's letters *stopped coming*. (perfective)
2. But all my brother's letters *had stopped coming. *(imperfective)

Am I on the right track?

J

(I realise that (2) is an ugly translation but this is just for the sake of analysis.)


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## Morrow

jackswitch said:


> 1. 兄からメールが*こなくなりました*。
> 2. 兄から*まったく*メールが*来なくなったんです*。


I'd say #3 is a possible counterpart of #1 and #4 is, #2.
3. My brother didn't send me _email_.
4. My brother _hasn't_ sent me any email. 

However, the attention should be paid to what she was saying.  What she actually meant by #1 was that she was afraid that something had happened to her brother.  But somebody chose the wrong option: they missed the signal and tried to soothe her.  She knew that just because her brother is busy doesn't mean he has no time to send her an email.  So she repeated the same message [=#2] though the tone became even stronger.  Now that somebody may well understand how nervous she was.

Still, if you want to stick to form, it is possible to show the difference as follows: 
5. a. Something doesn't/didn't happen (as it usually does).
    b. Something hasn't happened even once (when it should have happened more than once).
(5a) itself can send a message that there is something wrong or going on.  But if it doesn't work, you can now use (5b) to make it clear.

6. A: (彼から)携帯にかかってこ*ない*のよ。（Since this is not a usual thing, it makes me nervous.)
    B: エリートだもの、忙しいんでしょ。(Don't worry.)
    A: でも、*全然*かかってこ*ない*のよ。 (I don't think you understand how worried I am.)

Morrow


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## Flaminius

jackswitch said:


> 1. 兄からメールがこなくなりました。
> 2. 兄からまったくメールがこなくなったんです。


Hello *Morrow*,

 I seem to have heard you say in post #2 _supra_ that the two contain the same message with a stronger tone in the latter.  I agree yet I cannot see the point of equating tones in the Japanese sentences with grammatical aspects in the English sentences.



Morrow said:


> I'd say #3 is a possible counterpart of #1 and #4 is, #2.
> 3. My brother didn't send me _email_.
> 4. My brother _hasn't_ sent me any email.



Perhaps I am on a wrong scent...?


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## Morrow

So what do you think, jackswitch?

Morrow

It will help us if you explain why you classify #2 as imperfective.


jackswitch said:


> 2. But all my brother's letters *had stopped coming. *(imperfective)


Nobody will find it difficult to understand that both (7a) and (7b) are perfective and (7c) is imperfective.
7. a. She wrote a novel.
    b. She has just written a novel.
    c. She [is/was] writing a novel.
And it makes sense to regard (8a) as perfective and (8b) as imperfective. 
8. a. She will write a novel.
    b. She still wrote novels.


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## Starfrown

Flaminius said:


> Hello *Morrow*,
> 
> I seem to have heard you say in post #2 _supra_ that the two contain the same message with a stronger tone in the latter. I agree yet I cannot see the point of equating tones in the Japanese sentences with grammatical aspects in the English sentences.


 
I think I know what Morrow was saying.

書くのです "[It] is that [ I ] write."
書いたのです "[It] is that [ I ] wrote/have written."
書くのだった "[It] was that [ I ] wrote."
書いたのだった "[It] was that [ I ] had written."

It seems that those with --たのです do correspond somewhat to the English perfect.

Am I wrong here?


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## Flaminius

星顰 said:
			
		

> It seems that those with --たのです do correspond somewhat to the English perfect.


Hello,
You are comparing たのです (in ordinary speech, it is more たんです) with のです (んです) in your four sentences or two pairs.  たのです, with た, is quite similar to the English perfect but *jackswitch* has asked us to compare こなくなったんです with こなくなりました.  I am still wondering how they can be different in terms of tense/aspect.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
I don't know the grammar but my feeling is;
こなくなりました＝My brother didn't send me any mail recently.
Just describing the fact.

こなくなったんです
＝I want to emphasis that my brother didn't send me any mail recently.
=Quite surprisingly, my brother didn't send me any mail recently.

I think this sentence include speaker/writer's strong emotion.

Wishfull


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## Starfrown

Flaminius said:


> Hello,
> You are comparing たのです (in ordinary speech, it is more たんです) with のです (んです) in your four sentences or two pairs. たのです, with た, is quite similar to the English perfect but *jackswitch* has asked us to compare こなくなったんです with こなくなりました. I am still wondering how they can be different in terms of tense/aspect.


I see. Forgive my momentary lapse of reason.


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## jackswitch

First of all, thanks to everyone; your responses have been very helpful.

As for the choice of words (regarding aspect), I may have chosen badly. What I meant to suggest is:

兄からメールが*こなくなりました*。
There was a sudden and complete change of state, i.e. the letters stopped coming.

でも、兄からまったくメールが*来なくなったんです*。
I figured that the speaker was referring to an unbound time period in which no letters were coming. I read the 来なくなったん as a nominalised "stopped coming" and then took です to mean that the メール "is in a state of having stopped coming". Please let me know if this is on the wrong track, native speakers.

To me, though, it's much more important to understand the difference in meaning at this point since I still have a pretty shaky grasp on Japanese grammar. Thanks to everyone for your explanations of that difference — I would never have guessed it!

J


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## Mugi

I'll leave the finnicky grammar explanations to others, but be careful of メール - it refers (as Morrow has indicated) to "email" or "text messages" sent on a mobile phone; it doesn't mean "mail" (= letters). 

You'll notice the mistake most often when Japanese speak English and refer to "email" as "mail". In fact, just this morning, a Japanese colleague of mine was caught out. He kept referring to sending and receiving "mail", but it wasn't until he began reciting his email address that the perplexed foreign client finally understood and corrected him.


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## Morrow

jackswitch said:


> I read the 来なくなったん as a nominalised "stopped coming" and then took です to mean that the メール "is in a state of having stopped coming".


You may hear Japanese people say that to "分ける" is to "分かる," but this approach doesn't always work.

As I have already suggested, the two sentences convey the same message that she has not received emails from her brother, and the key difference lies in the presence (or absence) of "まったく," which is a negative polarity item (NPI), meaning it requires negation for the whole sentence to be grammatical: 英語が*まったく*[*分かる/分から*ない*].  

Put differently, the conjugation of the verb "来る" itself doesn't show any significant difference in meaning in your case.  In fact, instead of your #1[=(9a)], you could also use (9b) and (9c).  
9. a. 兄からメールが来なくなりました.
    b. 兄からメールが来なくなった[の/ん]です.
　　c. 兄からメールが来ない[の/ん]です.
    d. 兄からメールが来なかった[の/ん]です.
As you can see when compared to (9d), the three sentences all suggest that the event of her brother sending her an email has stopped being repeated, although (9c) permits a different interpretation. 

If we use the word "email" to explain the key difference (as in my previous post), we can express "メールが来ない" as "to not receive *email*" with "email" being uncountable, while we can identify  "まったくメールが来ない/メールがまったく来ない" as "to not receive any *emails *(at all)" with "email" now being countable.  

In other words, "メールが来ない" doesn't specify the frequency at which the event of her brother sending her an email happens (possibly no times at all), but "まったくメールが来ない/メールがまったく来ない" does (definitely no times at all).

In relation to English, as I have said earlier, "メールが来ない" suggests "not receiving an email" is not a *usual* thing, so a simple verb form does the job. But "まったくメールが来ない" implies that "receiving an email" has not happened *even once*," so you may need to choose the perfect form.

Morrow


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## jackswitch

Thank you Morrow and Mugi, those answers were just what I needed. I understand now.


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## Morrow

This is unsolicited advice, but this might be helpful, after all.


Morrow said:


> 9. a. 兄からメールが来なくなりました.
> b. 兄からメールが来なくなった[の/ん]です.
> c. 兄からメールが来ない[の/ん]です.


Now you can explore the difference in function among the three sentences.
10. a. 突然[=suddenly/unexpectedly]、兄からメールが*来なくなり*ました.
     b. 突然、兄からメールが*来なくなっ*た[の/ん]です.
     c.***突然、兄からメールが*来ない*[の/ん]です.
The difference in acceptability comes down to the difference between "来なくなる" and "来ない."  Note that (9a) and (9b) are only different in the choice of "ます":
(11) a. 来なくなる(来ない+*なる*)+*ます*+た==>*来なくなり*ました
      b. 来なくなる(来ない+*なる*)+た==>*来なくなっ*た
As you suspected, "なる" implies a change in states, so (9a) and (9b) can coexist with "突然."

Then how about the difference between (9a) and (9b)?
I think you will already have understood this.
"の/ん" in (9b) plays a central role, as you rightly analyzed, in changing the status of "兄からメールが来なくなった" into a nominal.   
When we add "でも(even so)," (9a) is not wrong but it sounds like it is lacking in force, at least in your context (although I added "まったく" without explanation).
(12) a. ?でも、兄からまったくメールが来なくなり*まし*た.
       b. *でも*、兄からまったくメールが来なくなった[の/ん]*です*.
       cf. でも、兄からまったくメールが来ない[の/ん]です.
I think you can safely say that this is ascribable to the difference between "ます" and "です."
(13) a. *彼が犯人ます.
       b. 彼が犯人[です/だ].
If you remind yourself that "です/だ" is used to assert something in the construction of "X[は/が] Y[=noun]です/だ," you will find that "です" in (12b) makes it possible for you to forcefully insist that you are right, ensuring that (12b) (and for that matter, (12c)) serves your purpose and sounds better.

Morrow


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## jackswitch

Morrow, your advice is always welcome. I really appreciate the extra information, it has helped me a lot. Thank you!


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## Flaminius

A few words about what ん (which is always followed by conjugations of だ to make a complete sentence) stresses.

So, a girl complains her brother has stopped sending e-mails to her:
兄からメールがこなくなりました

This literally allows no emails to come to her but in reality it can express very emphatically that very few emails come to her.  The other girl chose to understand it as an emphatic exaggeration than to take it at face value.

In order to correct the misunderstanding, the first girl had to rephrase it to say, "No, he has stopped completely":
でも、兄からまったくメールがこなくなったんです

Other than that まったく is added to eliminate misunderstanding, the second sentence is identical to the first one.  They are in fact intended by the speaker to convey the same meaning.  んです makes a point that her position has been unchanged.  It shows that the second sentence is a rephrasing of the first for a better understanding.


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