# sevdiğimi bildiğini biliyorum



## Mindlevery

Merhaba!

*Sevdiğimi bildiğini biliyorum.*

Does this mean something like: "I know that you know that I love you"


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## ateaofimdomar

It means exactly that.


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## Mindlevery

Great!  
Can you explain grammar in this sentence? Because I just guessed the meaning...


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## ateaofimdomar

Ah, grammar... Beginning with an apology to Turkish speakers for any grammar terms I might have gotten wrong, here it goes:
you have -dik ekleri which, when added to a verb stem, create words that in western languages are translated by subordinate phrases. You have to add the possessive suffix in order to show who is doing the action that the verb describes and then you add a grammar case, according to the one that is always used with the main verb.

So, you say 
gel(come)dik+im(mine)+i(accusative case) biliyorsun (you know) = geldiğimi biliyorsun = my coming you know = You know that I came.

Sev*(love)*diğ*(dik eki)*im*(mine)*i*(accusative case)* bil*(know)*diğ*(dik eki)*in*(yours)*i *biliyorum = *My loving your knowing I know = I know that you know that I love you _(you is implied)_


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## Volcano

Mindlevery said:


> Merhaba!
> 
> *Sevdiğimi bildiğini biliyorum.*
> 
> Does this mean something like: "I know that you know that I love you"



*Sev - dik - im-i

Sev >> verb (love)

Sevdik >> verbal adjective (-dik is a suffix which makes a verbal adjective from a verb) 

Sevdiğim >> -im is possessive suffix (k becomes ğ, softening)

Sevdiğimi >> -i is **accusative case

--------------

Bil - dik - in - i

Bil >> verb (know)

Bildik - verbal adjective (-dik is a suffix which makes a verbal adjective from a verb)

Bildiğin >> -in is possessive suffix **(k becomes ğ, softening)*
*
Bildiğini >> -i is **accusative case

--------------

Bil - i - yor - um

Bil >> verb (know)

Biliyor >> -yor is a time suffix which is present continous

Biliyorum >> -um is personal suffix
*


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## Artigh

Volcano said:


> *Sev - dik - im-i
> 
> Sev >> verb (love)
> 
> Sevdik >> verbal adjective (-dik is a suffix which makes a verbal adjective from a verb)
> 
> Sevdiğim >> -im is possessive suffix (k becomes ğ, softening)
> 
> Sevdiğimi >> -i is **accusative case
> 
> --------------
> 
> Bil - dik - in - i
> 
> Bil >> verb (know)
> 
> Bildik - verbal adjective (-dik is a suffix which makes a verbal adjective from a verb)
> 
> Bildiğin >> -in is possessive suffix **(k becomes ğ, softening)*
> *
> Bildiğini >> -i is **accusative case
> 
> --------------
> 
> 
> *




*Sev-dik* is not correct. This is the adjectival form,  there is no *noun* in the sentence so it can't be an adjective, therefore this is a *pronoun* and the correct separation is:

*Sev-diği* <--This is the pronoun form.

Sevdiği +* m *<--- genitive case.


The same logic for *Bildiğini*

Bil+*diği* <--Pronoun form.

Bildiği+*n* <--Genitive case.

Bildiğin*+i* <--Accusative case.


ex:

Bildik bir konuyu anlat = talk about a known topic.
Bil*-dik* : adjective. The noun it affects:* konu*

Bildiğin konuyu anlat = talk about the topic that you know.
Bil-*dik-in* : adjective. The noun it affects: *konu*

Bildiğini anlat = talk about what you know.
Bil*-diği-n-i : *Pronoun. The noun it affects: *none*. The noun it replaces: *all the tings you know.*


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## Volcano

Artigh said:


> *Sev-dik* is not correct. This is the adjectival form,  there is no *noun* in the sentence so it can't be an adjective, therefore this is a *pronoun* and the correct separation is:
> 
> *Sev-diği* <--This is the pronoun form.
> 
> Sevdiği +* m *<--- genitive case.
> 
> 
> The same logic for *Bildiğini*
> 
> Bil+*diği* <--Pronoun form.
> 
> Bildiği+*n* <--Genitive case.
> 
> Bildiğin*+i* <--Accusative case.
> 
> 
> ex:
> 
> Bildik bir konuyu anlat = talk about a known topic.
> Bil*-dik* : adjective. The noun it affects:* konu*
> 
> Bildiğin konuyu anlat = talk about the topic that you know.
> Bil-*dik-in* : adjective. The noun it affects: *konu*
> 
> Bildiğini anlat = talk about what you know.
> Bil*-diği-n-i : *Pronoun. The noun it affects: *none*. The noun it replaces: *all the tings you know.*




*Fiil kök veya gövdelerine  “-an, -ası, -mez, -ar, -dik, -ecek, -miş “ eklerinin eklenmesiyle oluşan sözcüklere sıfat-fiil(ortaç) denir. 

* *dik” ekleri kendinden sonra iyelik eki alarak kullanılır.*


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## ateaofimdomar

I have various questions


Artigh said:


> *Sev-dik* is not correct. This is the adjectival form, there is no *noun* in the sentence so it can't be an adjective, therefore this is a *pronoun* and the correct separation is:
> 
> *Sev-diği* <--This is the pronoun form.*.*


 
If what you say is correct, what is the *-i* at the end of sevdiği?
If *sevdik* is not correct and the correct is *Sevdiği* , then how do you explain *sevdikleri* in the plural?
If, as you say, Sevdiği +* m *is the genitive, then what do you call -nin in the following examples?

Gelmeleri*nin* nedeni ne?
Yaptıkları*nın* haberleri

Thanks in advance for the reply!


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## Mindlevery

Thanks for all the replies!
You got me really confused now , but I think after reading all explanations a few more times, I will get it!


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## Mindlevery




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## Armanti

This is interesting, nobody has mentioned perfect aspect which is conveyed by -di- in -dik-.
*Sevdik* would mean WE LOVED, *sevdiği* is past participle (LOVED, BELOVED). I am not sure about -k-, but i guess in Sevdiği it's a reduced variant of -ki- affix of determination, whereas in Sevdik it's and affix that conveys the meaning of 1st person plural.
-m- denotes the person (the speaker) by which the action of SEV- is performed, or the «possession» of the ACTION and you can render Sevdiğim as MY LOVING. In the same environment -n- shows the meaning of the addressee (2nd person). The 3rd person is also denoted by -n- but not unless you have the pronoun O "He/She/It" before the word.

-i is the affix of the accusative case.


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## Artigh

Volcano said:


> *Fiil kök veya gövdelerine  “-an, -ası, -mez, -ar, -dik, -ecek, -miş “ eklerinin eklenmesiyle oluşan sözcüklere sıfat-fiil(ortaç) denir.
> 
> * *dik” ekleri kendinden sonra iyelik eki alarak kullanılır.*



This is true. But not always.

If you call something an *adjective*, then you should be able to get an answer to the question: *which. (hangi)*.

örnek:

bildiğin soruyu sorma.

*hangi soruyu?* Can we get an answer? Yes. *Bildiğin --> adjective*



Bildiğini gösterme.

hangi....? We can't even ask the question. Therefore it's not an adjective.

However we can ask the question: *Neyi?* And the answer is: *bildiğini.*

So this is a noun, and in grammar it's a pronoun and also the object.

There is gramatically no difference between:

*Bildiğini gösterme* vs *Onu gösterme*

Where, onu is also a pronoun because we can get the answer to the question: *neyi.*


sevdiğimi bildiğini biliyorum.

*Neyi biliyorum? 

Bildiğini. <---Pronoun.

Neyi bildiğini biliyorum? 

Sevdiğimi. <--Pronoun.


*I hope it's clear now.


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## Volcano

Artigh said:


> This is true. But not always.
> 
> If you call something an *adjective*, then you should be able to get an answer to the question: *which. (hangi)*.
> 
> örnek:
> 
> bildiğin soruyu sorma.
> 
> *hangi soruyu?* Can we get an answer? Yes. *Bildiğin --> adjective*
> 
> 
> 
> Bildiğini gösterme.
> 
> hangi....? We can't even ask the question. Therefore it's not an adjective.
> 
> However we can ask the question: *Neyi?* And the answer is: *bildiğini.*
> 
> So this is a noun, and in grammar it's a pronoun and also the object.
> 
> There is gramatically no difference between:
> 
> *Bildiğini gösterme* vs *Onu gösterme*
> 
> Where, onu is also a pronoun because we can get the answer to the question: *neyi.*
> 
> 
> sevdiğimi bildiğini biliyorum.
> 
> *Neyi biliyorum?
> 
> Bildiğini. <---Pronoun.
> 
> Neyi bildiğini biliyorum?
> 
> Sevdiğimi. <--Pronoun.
> 
> 
> *I hope it's clear now.



*No it's not clear.First of all, I didn't name the whole 'sevdiğimi and bildiğini' as an adjective or pronoun or noun etc.I just separated the suffixs in it and showed what was what, but you have wrong with it.I don't know any suffix -diği and m is not genitive there.The suffix -dik takes **possessive suffix **after itself.Now I see you just work on the words 'sevdiğimi and bildiğini'.I am also waiting for you to answer ateaofimdomar's questions...*


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## Artigh

I think I must admit that I was wrong at "diği" part. It is explained the way I did in many grammar books, and I also teach turkish to foreign students, it was the method I used.

Now that Atea asked the question I'm in doubt too. I'll check some of my notes, and sorry for the confusion.



Sevdiğim is genitive because we say:

benim sevdiğim

so it's possessive and genitive together. Of that I'm sure.


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## ateaofimdomar

You know, this was exactly my point. Volcano is right. Some methods for foreigners (and I should know, I am one ) are really bad because they try to explain things from the point of view of the foreign language, inventing pronouns where in Turkish there are none.


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## Mindlevery

Well...everything was clear to me with seperating the suffixes...Hungarian language also uses suffixes after all. 
But later I got really confused. 

Well, I will try to write some examples on my own and post it in this thread later. So I can check whether I really understood how it goes, or not.


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