# 君は本当に頓珍漢



## samanthalee

Hi,

I have this little sentence in a script I'm annotating. I can't find the meaning of 頓珍漢 in my tiny dictionary. Can anyone tell me whether it's correct to translate 君は本当に頓珍漢 as "You are really an idiot"? The target language is actually Mandarin, so I welcome any help in either English or Mandarin.

In case it helps, the whole line is 君は本当に頓珍漢。僕はずっと君のそばにいるのに、なんで僕のことちゃんと見てくれないの？And it's uttered by a boy who's been waiting for his love interest to fall in love with him.

Thanks in advance.


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## kaito

頓珍漢 【とんちんかん; トンチンカン】  (adj-na,n) absurdity; contradiction

Idiot would fit in that sentence and is more or less close to the literal meaning, however depending on further context, I might pick another word.

Assuming she was just whining to the guy how she can't find a boyfriend I'd use the word ridiculous there to keep it closer to the literal version and still natural enough (if the target language were English).


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## Aoyama

As Kaito said, 頓珍漢 means something absurd, words making no sense. The second meaning is "idiot", "fool". The origin of the expression is more "echoic" than lexical.
As for a translation in Mandarin, "luan qi ba zao" （乱七八糟 ） is close to the original meaning, but would not work in this context.
That doesn't help much ...


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## akimura

Hi,

頓珍漢 or more often spelled とんちんかん or トンチンカン in modern colloquial Japanese, means "off the point".  In the above example, "I" am in love with you, that's the point; but "you" are off the point; you don't seem to understand it; always act as if you don't know it, act in a way you are not in love with me, totally uninterested in love between you and me, or totally unaware of what is truly going on with my feelings about you.

とんちんかん is usually used as a phrase, とんちんかんな答え which means an answer that is not only wrong but totally off the point.  For example:

Q: What's the name of the country whose capital is Tokyo?
A: Hong Kong.

The answer "Hong Kong" is an excellent example of "とんちんかんな答え", since it is not just wrong, "Hong Kong" is not even the name of a country.


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## samanthalee

Hi guys,
Thanks, your answers have been a great help. 

Hi kaito,
Your guess is close, but not quite.  The woman is participating in a "The Bachelorette" kind of match-making show and she is discussing her choices with the boy. The boy blurted out that string of Japanese knowing fully well that the woman won't be able to understand what he has said. The woman had been the boy's high school teacher years ago, they are now the best of friends.


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## akimura

Hi,

I thought that the following example might also be of your interest... That is, "とんちんかんな会話" meaning the two speakers are not in tune with each other in conversation.

A: Did you enjoy the party last night?
B: Yes, a lot of my old friends came here.  I was glad they hadn't changed at all.
A: Came here?  I thought the party last night was at Jim's.
B: What?  Oh, yeah, nothing hasn't changed really.  Tom, for example, came here straight from the school gym and he had his towel around his neck.
A: I got that.  But what I don't get is, everyone came here?
B: Yes. they did.  
C: Guys, the party was held here the night before last night.  And last night, you (B) forgot to go to Jim's party!

So I wouldn't say とんちんかん equals absurdity.  It's more of the state  of something not in tune with something else, which generally sounds absurd.


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## Aoyama

I checked the Japanese-Chinese dictionary.
For all practical purpose, here is some of what can be found :
前后不符，前言不搭后语 。。。
（净干）傻事，笨事，糊涂虫 。。。


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## kaito

I would've liked to see the expression on her face.

So is ドンチンカン only used when the speaker assumes the listener does not know that that he/she is "off the point" ?


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## akimura

kaito said:


> So is ドンチンカン only used when the speaker assumes the listener does not know that that he/she is "off the point" ?



Yes, in general those who is トンチンカン does not know that they are トンチンカン unless someone else notifies the トンチンカンな person later; the reason being that if they knew they would be, they would have tried NOT to be トンチンカン in the first place.


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## lammn

Aoyama said:


> I checked the Japanese-Chinese dictionary.
> For all practical purpose, here is some of what can be found :
> 前后不符，前言不搭后语 。。。
> （净干）傻事，笨事，糊涂虫 。。。


 
Is that an on-line dictionary? If yes, could you quote me the link to it please?


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## kaito

akimura said:


> Yes, in general those who is トンチンカン does not know that they are トンチンカン unless someone else notifies the トンチンカンな person later; the reason being that if they knew they would be, they would have tried NOT to be トンチンカン in the first place.



I was trying to imply that the トンチンカンなperson could be pretending to be トンチンカン, so when the speaker (thinks) he knows that his listener is pretending to be トンチンカン, could he still use that word ?


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## akimura

kaito said:


> I was trying to imply that the トンチンカンなperson could be pretending to be トンチンカン, so when the speaker (thinks) he knows that his listener is pretending to be トンチンカン, could he still use that word ?



If the speaker is talking about someone's character itself, generally no.  For example:

彼女はトンチンカンだ。
This generally means, she doesn't know what's going on.  If she knows what's going on and gives トンチンカンな responses, she is acting like a トンチンカンな woman which means she is rather a clever woman.  We generally would NOT call such a clever woman as a トンチンカンな woman.  But technically speaking, even if the speaker believes that she is トンチンカン, you could not deny the possibility that she might be acting a トンチンカンな woman.  In this sense, she is not necessarily a トンチンカンな woman.

Meanwhile, if the speaker is talking about something other than someone's character, e.g., a トンチンカンな conversation and a トンチンカンな answer, then you could intentionally do such a conversation or make such an answer.  But practically speaking, there are far more cases where someone unintentionally do a トンチンカンな conversation and make a トンチンカンな answer, as you might be able to imagine.


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## kaito

Thanks, that helped a lot.


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## e.ma

I'm most probably wrong, but from what I've read in this thread I would say
你真不懂事 (你這個糊塗虫)


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