# EN: article before French départements



## labuz199

Savez-vous si l'article "the" est nécessaire devant le nom des départements en anglais ?

Ex : le Morbihan = Morbihan ou the Morbihan ??

Merci !


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## marget

C'est Morbihan, sans article.


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## labuz199

Ok merci beaucoup !


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## timpeac

En fait j'aurais choisi une troisième tournure - garder l'article (ou bien son manque) tel quel.

I'm going to le Morbihan.
I've been to les Landes.
I love la Gironde.

Je dois admettre que je ne connais pas trop le Morbihan, mais pour les autres dire en anglais "I'm going to Landes", par exemple, me semblerait étrange. Je ne dis donc pas que Marget ait tort à ça mais si c'est vrai que d'habitude on dit juste "Morbihan" en anglais cela me semblerait une exception - qu'en penses-tu Marget ?


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## timpeac

Après un googlage il me semble que la plupart des gens diraient juste "Gironde" etc (mais il existe aussi "la Gironde" (en anglais)). En fait cela me surprend, mais bon.

"I went to Landes last year" - quelle impression ça vous fait les Anglophones ?


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## ascoltate

There's a lot of variation in use of articles with place names in English. This is most likely because most native speakers are not familiar with these place names. Thus, any use of it would likely be a code-switch (i.e., not only might we use the French or English article or no article at all, but we'd probably pronounce the name of the place in French rather than English...). I've been reading through this list of the depts.:
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/11/tribun/comm3.asp
and trying to say each to myself with each possibility, and my selections seem more or less haphazard.
I know that's not a clear answer, but really, these terms do not exist in English. If you want to make what you're talking about comprehensible to an English speaker, you'd probably have to say:
"I went to the department of Morbihan" or "I went to the department called 'Le Morbihan'" or some such thing, so we'd know to what you are referring.


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## sam's mum

I'd say 'I went to Provence/Brittany' but 'I went to the Dordogne'. I don't know how to explain that.


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## ascoltate

I had the same judgments! "Brittany" is of course in English translation, so it makes more sense. But I'm not sure about the others. Just the way it is...


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## tilt

I personally wouldn't use any article before places names. Grammatically speaking, Morbihan is not different from a Nebraska or any place name.
_Je suis allé dans le Nebraska -> I went to Nebraska
Je suis allé dans le Morbihan -> I went to Morbihan
_


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## timpeac

But I think in doing that you'd often be doing something different from many English native speakers (at least British ones). "The Dordogne" is another good example - I can't imagine saying "I went to Dordogne". I think it's something to learn on a case by case basis. I also wonder whether there are American-British English differences here since many English are very familiar with the French départements through holidays and general proximity.


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## SunshineSupergirl

We can't come to a consensus.  Is it just plain Drôme, or do you say the Drôme?  He comes from Drôme or the Drôme?  We have opinions on both sides from professional translators and among ourselves.  Thank you.


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## auptitgallo

I would say 'the Drôme' as it is a geographical region, along the lines of 'He lives in the Midi / the Massif Central'.


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## SwissPete

Or: "He lives in the Drôme department".


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## moustic

I've also had discussions about this. 
In French, you have "*le* Var, *le *Cher, *la *Haute Savoie ..." definite articles are needed for all the _départements _(as well as for countries: *la* France,* l'*Espagne, *le* Portugal), whereas in English you say "California, Texas, Louisiana... Yorkshire, Lancashire, Kent, Cornwall ..." with no article. French speakers translate these as "*la* Californie, *le* Texas, *le* Yorkshire ...".
I am tempted to say that we shouldn't use a definite article because they are not required in English when talking about countries, states and regions. This is the case with Normandy and Brittany, but many people say "I live in the Dordogne / the Vienne" probably influenced by the French.


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

The systematic use of the definite article before French départements in English does not extend to overseas French départments, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Mayotte, French Guiana and Reunion. This may be because all these départements are as many islands.


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