# tie someone up in knots



## Giucara

Salve,

come si traduce in italiano questa frase:
I don't want tie us up in knot with emails but I want us to all be clear on what I need.

Grazie a tutti

Giucara


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## Paulfromitaly

E' fondamentale che tu scriva:
- la *frase originale intera*
- * il tuo tentativo di traduzione *
e ci dia qualche informazione a proposito del *contesto*, grazie 

Cosa significa "*aggiungere il contesto*"?
*Come e in che forum creare - modificare - impostare correttamente una discussione*


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## Giucara

la mia traduzione sarebbe


Non voglio farvi perdere tempo con queste emails ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto richiedendo (o cosa voglio)


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## Paulfromitaly

Di cosa si parla?

Cosa significa "*aggiungere il contesto*"?


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## Giucara

Praticamente il mio manager ha inviato una email dopo l'altra a un fornitore con delle richieste. Poi alla fine a inviato questa email come a scusarsi di tutte le email inviate, spiegando che lo ha fatto solo per far capire a tutti di cosa ha bisogno


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## Paulfromitaly

Hai letto qui?

To be in stitches/ knots


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## sorry66

Giucara said:


> I don't want tie us up in knot with emails


I don't want to tie us up in knots with emails...

tie someone up in knots _informal_ Make someone completely confused: _they *tied themselves in knots* over what to call the country_

@Paulfromitaly The phrase and meaning in the thread you quoted is a little different.


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## Giucara

Thanks sorry66,

so if "tie someone up in knots" means make someone completely confused I would change my initial traslation as:
non voglio confondermi con tutte queste email ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo


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## AlabamaBoy

In this context, I did not think that either confusion or hilarity played into the meaning.


Giucara said:


> I don't want to tie us up in knot with emails but I want us to all be clear on what I need.


My impression is that it means "to get us bogged down in email" , "to waste too much time with all these emails".
_Non vorrei *fare che* *perdiamo troppo tempo* con tutte queste email ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo_.


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## lenabow

AlabamaBoy said:


> In this context, I did not think that either confusion or hilarity played into the meaning.
> 
> My impression is that it means "to get us bogged down in email" , "to waste too much time with all these emails".
> _Non vorrei *fare che* *perdiamo troppo tempo* con tutte queste email ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo_.



just a small correction "non vorrei *che perdessimo troppo tempo *con tutte queste email, ma *vorrei che fosse* chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo"
By the way, if it must sound as an apology I would use a past tense and I would just use "far*vi*" as the equivalent for "tie *you *up in knots": "Non volevo farvi perdere troppo tempo con tutte queste email, volevo solo fosse chiaro a tutti cosa stessi chiedendo"


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## AlabamaBoy

Thanks.☺


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## Pietruzzo

lenabow said:


> "non vorrei *che perdessimo troppo tempo *con tutte queste email, ma *vorrei che fosse* chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo"


To me the original English sounds more direct. 
I'd go this way: "Non voglio che ci ingarbugliamo  con le email ma solo che sia ben chiaro di cosa ho bisogno."


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## lenabow

Pietruzzo said:


> To me the original English sounds more direct.
> I'd go this way: "Non voglio che ci ingarbugliamo con le email ma solo che sia ben chiaro di cosa ho bisogno."


You're right the sentence Giucara said at the beginning it is more direct, but I supposed he wanted kind of apologize, so that's why here is less direct. By the way I'd rather use the first sentence Giucara wrote (which is an excellent translation by the way)than the verb "ingarbugliare", sounds more natural.



Giucara said:


> Non voglio farvi perdere tempo con queste emails ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto richiedendo (o cosa voglio)


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## Mary49

In my opinion "perdere tempo" is not the right translation, the meaning is "confondere", so "Non voglio che facciamo / creiamo confusione con queste email..."


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## Zia Mame

I would definitely go for Pietruzzo's 'ingarbugliare', which renders perfectly the image of the knot. If your manager is apologising for the previous mail sequence, I would use the past:
'Non era mia intenzione/non volevo fare ingarbugliare tutti noi..."


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## Mary49

Ingarbugliare: Definizione e significato di Ingarbugliare  Dizionario italiano  Corriere.it   "*3* fig. Confondere qlcu., facendogli perdere il filo del discorso o del pensiero: _queste chiacchiere mi ingarbugliano"_
I think that "*confondere*" could go in opposition to "voglio che sia *chiaro *a tutti cosa sto chiedendo".


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## Zia Mame

Yes Mary49, I was thinking also about 'impelagare', which is another figurative expression that can perhaps work in this context.


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## AlabamaBoy

The point is that the emails will take time. He doesn't want that. But it is the price he is willing to pay for making what he wants clear.


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## Zia Mame

In Italian there are also the expressions: 'avere le mani legate', 'tenere qualcuno con le mani legate': prolonging a situation for somebody keeping him/her in the impossibility to act. 'Fino a quando non ho la conferma, ho le mani legate". I don't know if it could help.


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## Mary49

Zia Mame said:


> In Italian there are also the expressions: 'avere le mani legate', 'tenere qualcuno con le mani legate': prolonging a situation for somebody keeping him/her in the impossibility to act. 'Fino a quando non ho la conferma, ho le mani legate". I don't know if it could help.


Credo che non c'entri con la frase dell'OP.


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## AlabamaBoy

It seems to fit very well, Auntie Mame. Mi spiace ma non concordo con Mary qui. It doesn't mean confondere here. That wouldn't even make sense. I don't want to confuse, but at the same time  (ciò nonostante) I want to be clear? That's nonsense.

He is afraid that the emails will tie everyone up (preventing them from doing other work) but he feels it is a necessary evil to make sure it is clear to everyone what he needs from them.

This is an issue with idioms. If you make any variation, as he did, it can be misunderstood.


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## Zia Mame

My attempt: 
'Non era mia intenzione tenerci tutti con le mani legate con questa serie di e-mails, ma volevo ci fosse massima chiarezza su quanto richiesto'.

Thank you both Alabama and Mary


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## Mary49

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. 


AlabamaBoy said:


> That wouldn't even make sense. I don't want to confuse, but at the same time (ciò nonostante) I want to be clear? That's nonsense.


If I send a lot of mails on the same subject because I want to be clear, I have the feeling that those who receive them could be confused. Hence I apologize for creating a possible confusion and I explain that my only aim was to be clear about what I need. 
I don't know if I was clear. "Avere le mani legate" doesn't fit at all in this context.


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## sorry66

Giucara said:


> non voglio confondermi con tutte queste email ma voglio che sia chiaro a tutti cosa sto chiedendo


Here it would be 'confonderci' - 'us'

I agree with Mary. The  'confusion' here is more about 'unnecessary complications' that stop us reaching our objectives by temporarily confusing us, and all that, of course, is a waste of time, too.
For the translation, however, I think the focus should be on  'unnecessary complications' barring our path.




AlabamaBoy said:


> I did not think that either confusion or hilarity played into the meaning.


I'm not aware of 'to be in knots'  meaning 'to be overcome with laughter' that, for me, is usually 'to be in stitches'   
I would use 'in knots' according to this definition:
*in knots* informal› If your stomach is in knots, it feels tight and uncomfortable because you are nervous or excited.


rrose17 said:


> To have someone else tied up in knots means that you have them very constrained, especially emotionally.


I agree that 'tie up someone in knots' could be used in this way.
The above quote is from the thread posted by @Paulfromitaly in post # 6.(So, in stitches/in knots are not interchangeable, in my opinion)


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## AlabamaBoy

Mary, I see your point (and by that I mean it is plausible but unlikely so I have to disagree with your interpretation) but I have heard this situation time and again in American business English. Variations include "I don't want us to get twisted in our underwear  with all these emails but..." and "I don't want to beat a dead horse with all these emails but..." and "I don't want to belabor the issue but..."  "I don't want us to get bogged down with all these emails but...."

Is is infortunate that the speaker used "knots" here which was just added for emphasis. "But" here does not mean "ma" or "tuttavia" It means "ciò nonostante."

This is a very typical American business defense of doing something to the point of overkill. It is a justification for spending a lot of time and effort on something.

I think Zia Mame's phrase fits this context and confusion does not fit this context. It would be more than strange if that is what the original post had intended. This is different from Italian thinking and I apologize that it is so difficult.


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## sorry66

AlabamaBoy said:


> Is is infortunate that the speaker used "knots" here which was just added for emphasis. "But" here does not mean "ma" or "tuttavia" It means "ciò nonostante."


I agree.

The variations you mention are all about making things 'more complicated' (which is what I've said in post #25) and the people are saying 'I don't want that'.
So, I think, you could paraphrase the OP, by saying ' I don't want to complicate things with emails..'


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## Mary49

sorry66 said:


> The variations you mention are all about making things 'more complicated' (which is what I've said in post #25) and the people are saying 'I don't want that'. So, I think, you could paraphrase the OP, by saying ' I don't want to complicate things with emails..'


Which is completely different from "avere le mani legate":    
mano: significato e definizione - Dizionari - La Repubblica    "Avere le mani legate, non avere libertà d'azione, non poter agire"
Avere le mani legate: significato - Dizionario italiano De Mauro       "non poter agire o intervenire"
Benvenuti Zanichelli - Intercultura blog - Lingua italiana e intercultura  » Blog Archive   » Espressioni idiomatiche con la parola “mano”    "avere le mani legate: non potere agire liberamente, non avere la possibilità di intervenire in una situazione: vorrei aiutarti a ottenere questo incarico, ma purtroppo ho le mani legate;"
Dizionario Italiano: mano  - Sapere.it     "avere le mani legate, ( fig.) non poter agire secondo la propria volontà per una costrizione esterna ".


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## AlabamaBoy

> per una costrizione esterna



If it means you are not allowed to act, because someone has forbidden you from acting, then I agree,  it is the wrong meaning here. 

"We have the same idiom. I would like to help, but my hands are tied."


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## You little ripper!

Tie in knots - Idioms by The Free Dictionary

*tie someone (up) in knots*
_Fig._ to become anxious or upset. John tied himself in knots worrying about his wife during her operation. This waiting and worrying really ties me up in knots.
See also: in, knot, tie
McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

*tie yourself (up) in knots*

*1.* to become very confused or worried when you are trying to make a decision or solve a problem (often + _over_ ) They tied themselves in knots over the seating arrangements.
*2.* (_British & Australian_) to become very confused when you are trying to explain something She tied herself up in knots trying to tell me how to operate the video recorder.
See also: in, knot, tie
_Cambridge Idioms Dictionary, 2nd ed._ Copyright © Cambridge University Press 2006. Reproduced with permission.

*tie somebody (up) in knots*
_also_ *tie somebody into knots*
to cause someone to become very confused or worried They tied themselves up in knots over the seating arrangements for the party. The possibility of layoffs in Joe's department has tied him into knots.


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## sorry66

@Mary49  I was completely with you on the fact that 'avere le mani legate' wasn't right; it sounded too close to our idiom 'have one's hands tied' - and, in fact, it's exactly the same.

As Alabama pointed out (post #26): The person probably just wanted to say 'tied up' and added 'in knots' for emphasis (whereas, in fact, that changes the meaning)
*.* *tied up* - kept occupied or engaged; "she's tied up at the moment and can't see you";

Could 'impantanarsi' be another possibility for this particular context? Otherwise, I'd use 'complicare' - 'non voglio complicare le cose ...'.

Edit: Even if the boss intended something along the lines 'I don't want to make life difficult with all these emails..' the sentence should be translated according to the idea of the idiom (confusion). 'I don't want to create confusion but I want us to be clear ...'


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