# Icelandic: rúmum tveimur mánuðum eftir (case question)



## Alxmrphi

Hello all,


> Ný ríkisstjórn var mynduð í Finnlandi í dag,* rúmum tveimur mánuðum eftir* þingkosningar þar. Jyrki Katainen, leiðtogi hægri manna, verður forsætisráðherra og Jutta Urpilainen, leiðtogi Jafnaðarmanna, verður fjármálaráðherra. Þessir flokkar bættu mest við sig í kosningunum.
> 
> A new government was formed today in Finland, *more than two months after *elections took place. Jyrki Katainen, leader of the right-wing party, will be PM and Jutta Urpilainen, leader of the Social Democrats, will be Chancellor. These parties gained the most support in the elections.
> 
> Frá here.


 
I am curious about the declension of the part in bold, though the meaning of the paragraph seems clear enough to me. I thought about why it was all in the dative, but then it occurred to me that maybe it's just a case where it would be the same if *eftir *came first (eftir rúmum tveimur mánuðum). This doesn't seem to be right though, as when I checked Colloquial Icelandic it was specific about when eftir means 'after' has a 'time' rather than 'place' meaning, it always takes the accusative case.

So, as is now clear to me that _eftir _would only govern _kosning_ (which it does, as in accusative plural _-kosningar_), I'm left wondering where the need for dative comes in, exactly why it's required, and what effect it has on the meaning. Obviously it could be in any case and I could read it and see "about/just over two months after". So it's a case-question more than a 'meaning one'.

Thanks.


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## Tazzler

I don't know how to explain it. The dative has so many meanings in Icelandic since other cases have collapsed together and formed one case. This is sort of an independent time phrase. I don't know; wait for an íslendingur to explain it .


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## Alxmrphi

So it just has to be in the dative without any verb or preposition to require it in the sentence, in that sense independent?
You should try to explain it ! 
(Knowledgeable) non-natives are usually the best people to ask for explanations, as it's just natural instinct for native speakers and not really in an easily 'explainable' form.


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## kepulauan

Ok I've been thinking about this thread periodically for more than two hours now so I'm just going to write something sloppy. 

First, "rúmum" and "tveimur" both agree with "mánuðum" so we can easily imagine this is just one word like "degi". Now, if the accusative is used, it emphasizes that "dag" is an object of a sentence (and that, for reasons misty to non-natives, just sounds awful). It also makes for time meaning (that needs some extra structure words as mentioned before). "Degi" however is, although inseparable from time-sense, a position in some sort of row of events and can be used in non-time-related sentences:

Degi eftir kosningarnar var stjórn mynduð (event B happened a certain length in time after event A)
Magga kom á eftir mér í hlaupinu <=> mér á eftir kom Magga (position)
Magga kom fimm mínútum seinna <=> fimm mínútum seinna kom Magga (position)
Dekkið datt af fimm mínútum eftir brottför
Dekkið datt af fimm kílómetrum eftir brottför
--
Ég gerði þetta í tvo klukkutíma - for two hours (time meaning)
Dag einn vaknaði ég snemma - on a day (time meaning, a sentence that starts object-like)

Yes it's a maze and you probably won't have time for this in the middle of a conversation.
Þetta er eitt mesta bull sem ég hef skrifað á þessari síðu.


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## Donnerstag

You're right that _eftir_ takes the accusative case here. In your sentance, _eftir_ takes the word _þingkosningar_ into the accusative (but because that word is the same in the nominative and accusative, you don't notice)

When we place words that have something to do with time before _eftir_, in order to quantify the time duration, those words are always put in to the dative. I really have no idea why.


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## Alxmrphi

> Þetta er eitt mesta bull sem ég hef skrifað á þessari síðu.


Ég þakka þér fyrir að prófa að útkýra mér það!


> When we place words that have something to do with time before _eftir_, in order to quantify the time duration, those words are always put in to the dative. I really have no idea why.


That's a pretty good way to put it, and easy to remember/implement.
Thanks!


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## Donnerstag

Alxmrphi said:


> That's a pretty good way to put it, and easy to remember/implement.
> Thanks!



This rule also applies to the preposition _fyrir_ (rúmum tveimur mánuðum fyrir þingkosningar). I don't think you'll encounter this phenomenon with any other prepositions than those, at least I can't think of any.


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## Alxmrphi

Thanks again Donnerstag, I think I'll have a go at seeing if I can reproduce 3 examples to see if I have understood it correctly:




> _Ég sá hann* tveimur klukkutímum* fyrir veisluna_.
> I saw him two hours before the party.
> 
> _Ég kom til Íslands *þremur dögum* eftir að halda burt frá Englandi_.
> I arrived in Iceland three days after leaving England.
> 
> _Loksins kom ég heima, *fjórum tímum *eftir að það byrjaði að snjóa_.
> I finally got home, four hours after it started snowing.


I know the whole sentences probably won't be correct exactly but is the idea of when to use the construction correct.

Alex


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## Donnerstag

Yes, that's exactly how it's done


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## Alxmrphi

Donnerstag said:


> Yes, that's exactly how it's done


  Thanks!!!


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## sindridah

Svona fara MR-ingar að alvörum útskýringum Valdi!  haha


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