# Hindi/Urdu: act of God



## tonyspeed

In English we have a phrase "act of God" which people call an accidental happening. Are there identical Hindi and Urdu equivalents for this? In one Bank document, I found the term devi ghatnaa for the Hindi term.

What terms are commonly used that have the same connotation?


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## BP.

First ideas: _amr illaah_-امراللہ-thing of god- or _inshaa2 Allaah_-انشاءاللہ-will of god.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> In English we have a phrase "act of God" which people call an accidental happening. Are there identical Hindi and Urdu equivalents for this? In one Bank document, I found the term devi ghatnaa for the Hindi term.
> What terms are commonly used that have the same connotation?


qazaa-o-qadr/ qazaa-i-ilaahii = Divine decree


BelligerentPacifist said:


> First ideas:
> amr illaah-امراللہ-thing of god- or inshaa2 Allaah-انشاءاللہ-will of god.


BP SaaHib. "in-shaa'-Allaah(u)", strictly speaking is not the "will of God" but "agar chaahaa Allah ne".


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## greatbear

In legal language, I have no idea what they use, but in spoken language no such concept exists in Hindi. This is more a cultural question: destiny is a central feature of Hindu religion rather than Creator/God, hence, I guess, the absence of God from several idioms where English has it (and instead the presence of "destiny").


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## tonyspeed

This is very good information. I at first thought there would be no direct translation for this term. It is really based punishments brought about on people found in the judaeic texts that brought about this phrase.
People extended natural events such as earthquakes to ALL be punishments from God himself.

But I am somewhat surprised the Muslim culture does not have an exact translation for this. Maybe it is truly an English invention.


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## panjabigator

Perhaps a looser but idiosyncratic translation might be اپر والے کی مرزی/ऊपर वाले की मरज़ी.


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## greatbear

Yes, but do we use it for unforeseen incidents, which is what "act of God" implies?

For things like earthquakes and floods, Hindi speakers would use even "kudrat ki marzi" before "bhagwan ki marzi"; not to forget, that act is karni/kartoot, while marzi is mere desire/wish.

Usually, outside legal usage (about which I don't have any idea), we just use "andekhi ghatnaa" for the unforeseen events on a grand scale.


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## tonyspeed

I found an Urdu word that expresses that something is a punishment from God in the same way "act of God" expresses it but is probably useless as a direct translation of "act of God".

azaab


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## panjabigator

The word is عذاب/अज़ाब and it can mean "punishment, chastisement; pain, torture, torment" according to Platts.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> Yes, but do we use it for unforeseen incidents, which is what "act of God" implies?
> 
> For things like earthquakes and floods, Hindi speakers would use even "kudrat ki marzi" before "bhagwan ki marzi"; not to forget, that act is karni/kartoot, while marzi is mere desire/wish.
> 
> Usually, outside legal usage (about which I don't have any idea), we just use "andekhi ghatnaa" for the unforeseen events on a grand scale.




"qudrat" ( Divine Power) is God! "marzii" is more than "pleasure" or "choice". It is "consent" and "will". Together, I would suggest they mean very much an act of God!


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## BP.

QURESHPOR said:


> BP SaaHib. "in-shaa'-Allaah(u)", strictly speaking is not the "will of God" but "agar chaahaa Allah ne".



Sir I thought we could use this phrase this way since a similar one is used here, on the line numbered 26 i.e. "...limay.n yashaa2u wa yarDhaa".


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## BP.

greatbear said:


> Yes, but do we use it for unforeseen incidents, which is what "act of God" implies?
> For things like earthquakes and floods, Hindi speakers would use even "kudrat ki marzi" before "bhagwan ki marzi"; not to forget, that act is karni/kartoot, while marzi is mere desire/wish.
> ...


We could enlarge the canvass for the words I have and would be suggesting, but even if you restrict them to 'unforeseen disasters', here's some we commonly use in Urdu:
_mashiyat ee eezdii_ - مشیت ایزدی,
_qazaa2ee ilaahii_ - قضائے الٰہی - as QP sahib has already mentioned.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Sir I thought we could use this phrase this way since a similar one is used here, on the line numbered 26 i.e. "...limay.n yashaa2u wa yarDhaa".



BG SaaHib. I have not yet been called to Buckingham Palace by Her Majesty the Queen for knighthood! So, the title "Sir" is somewhat premature! By the way, 'Eid Mubaarak to you and all your loved ones.

Qur'an 53 (Suuratu_lnajmi) v26

And how many angels are in the heavans whose intercession availeth naught save after Allah giveth leave *to whom He chooseth** and accepteth! (Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall).

* *...to whom Allah wills...* *jin ko Allah chaahtaa hai*

Here and in "in-shaa' Allah", the "will" part is being used as a verb whereas in "the will of God", it needs to be a noun (mashii'ah/mashii'at).


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## BP.

QURESHPOR said:


> ...
> Here and in "in-shaa' Allah", the "will" part is being used as a verb  whereas in "the will of God", it needs to be a noun  (mashii'ah/mashii'at).


Thanks for almost lifting the doubts  on that one. But have you heard things like so said: "joo aap kii inshaa  hoo soo kiijii2ee"?




QURESHPOR said:


> BG SaaHib. I have not yet been called to Buckingham Palace by Her Majesty the Queen for knighthood! So, the title "Sir" is somewhat premature! By the way, 'Eid Mubaarak to you and all your loved ones....


One day, when you get my initials right
Happy Eid to you, your loved ones and to the general ma3aasharatun naas of the forum.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> "qudrat" ( Divine Power) is God! "marzii" is more than "pleasure" or "choice". It is "consent" and "will". Together, I would suggest they mean very much an act of God!



"Qudrat" means nothing more than Nature for Hindi speakers. There is no element of divinity for us there.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> "Qudrat" means nothing more than Nature for Hindi speakers. There is no element of divinity for us there.



How can you say that when you don't read the works of any Hindi prose or poetry writers? Is it not possible that at least some of them could have used this word with the meaning I have provided in their writings? Your sweeping statement implies that you have heard many many Hindi speakers use this word and everytime they have meant "nature" and nothing else. "qudrat kii marzii" is an Urdu phrase and is exactly equivalent to "Khudaa/Allah/Bhagvaan....kii marzii". Nature can not have "marzii"!

Any reason why you are using a "q" for qudrat, when in another thread you are saying you don't distinguish between "k" and "q". Why not write "kudrat", if this is the principle you are following?


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## greatbear

One often says "baarish ki marzii" in India; it doesn't assign divinity to rain, neither one is referring to rain gods! "Qudrat ki marzii" might be an Urdu phrase with connotations of divinity, but for most Hindi speakers, that is not the case. I am making a sweeping statement, if I am, regarding communication among Hindi speakers; I never said that I represent authors, poets and grammarians.

My k's and q's are arbitrary, as are my other letters when I write Hindi in Roman script, since I have no idea how to transliterate Hindi in that script most of the times. As long as others are understanding the word itself, that is fine to me.


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## rahulbemba

tonyspeed said:


> In English we have a phrase "act of God" which people call an accidental happening. Are there identical Hindi and Urdu equivalents for this? In one Bank document, I found the term devi ghatnaa for the Hindi term.
> 
> What terms are commonly used that have the same connotation?



First of all, we should stop taking Hindi and Urdu in the same breath every time  Sorry to say that, but in this portal I have seen at many places some posts have been trying to confuse everyone between Hindi and Urdu. Anyways, you are right, "Daiviya ghatna" is a Hindi term meaning the same, which means "Incident happening out of the blue". In fact, in Hindi, "Ghatna" itself means "incident", and if you put a "dur" as prefix, "dur-ghatna" means "accident" (bad incident). 

Some similar terms in Hindi would be "sanyog", which means something that happens "by chance". 

Also, there is a term called "akasmik" which is very close to "act of God". Also another term "Akasmaat" - meaning any "sudden unplanned event". 

Depending on the best suited situation in which one wants to use the term, one chooses the best available Hindi word for the same.


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## rahulbemba

greatbear said:


> "Qudrat" means nothing more than Nature for Hindi speakers. There is no element of divinity for us there.



True, I agree. "Qudrat" means "nature", as we use this word (which is coming from Urdu) in Hindi. In fact in India, a lot of words for God are "secular" in meaning (in a sense) that they also mean "nature". Perhaps this can be seen in the gesture that in religious originating in India, we worship nature as god, worshiping trees, cows (worshiped as mother because of milk), rivers, etc. "Nature" and "God" are used alternatively in India. When one speaks "Qudrat" either in India or in Hindi, it means "nature". For example, in India many motorized rickshaw wallahs, or trucks have some written slogans in the form of painting. "Qudrat ka karishma" - meaning "Miracle of nature" is a very common one.


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## tonyspeed

rahulbemba said:


> First of all, we should stop taking Hindi and Urdu in the same breath every time  Sorry to say that, but in this portal I have seen at many places some posts have been trying to confuse everyone between Hindi and Urdu. .



 I am interested in language, but I am not interested in political propaganda or the form of Hindi espoused by the government of India and those with other agendas. When I say Hindi I mean colloquial Hindi which overlaps with Urdu in many points.


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## BP.

rahulbemba said:


> ..."Qudrat" means "nature", as we use this word (which is coming from Urdu) in Hindi...


I would have phrased that "Among the various secondary meanings of qurat is nature", otherwise it would be misleading for a novice.


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## Qureshpor

rahulbemba said:


> True, I agree. *"Qudrat"* means *"nature"*, as we use this word (which is coming from Urdu) in Hindi. .... *When one speaks "Qudrat" either in India* *or in Hindi, it means "nature"*. For example, in India many motorized rickshaw wallahs, or trucks have some written slogans in the form of painting. "Qudrat ka karishma" - meaning "Miracle of nature" is a very common one.



Firstly, a quotation from Platts, where the meaning "nature" is mentioned last amongst other meanings.

  P قدرت *qudrat* (for A. قدرة, inf. n. of قدر 'to be able,' &c.), s.f. Power, ability, potency, vigour, force, authority, virtue; divine power, omnipotence;—the creation, the universe, nature:—qudrat rakhnā (-kī), To have power (to), to be able.

Secondly, here are a few examples of use of the word "*qudrat*" by Indians.

vuh aa'e ghar meN hamaare, Khudaa kii *qudrat* hai
kabhii ham un ko kabhii apne ghar ko dekhte haiN 

*Ghalib*

She, my beloved, and in *my* house! It has to be God's *power*! [miracle]
I look at her in utter disbelief and then stare at my humble abode!

...............

jaaduu hai nigah, chhab hai Ghazab, qahr hai mukhRaa
(aur qad hai qiyaamat)

Ghaaratgar-i-diiN vuh but-i-kaafir hai saraapaa
(Allah kii *qudrat*)

Husn-i-but-i-kaafir hai judaa'ii kaa jhamakRaa
(Tuk dekh to suurat)

*Jur'at*

................

kavaakib* haiN kih nag chhoTe baRe haiN
yih hiire dast-i-*qudrat* ne jaRe haiN

Are they stars or gems great and small
God's hand itself has set these diamonds

(kavaakib=stars; from taaroN bharii raat by *Saif Lakhnavi*)

.................

ai Khaak-i-Hind terii 3azmat meN kyaa gumaaN hai
daryaa-i-faiz-i-*qudrat* tere liye ravaaN hai

O land of India, is there any doubt in your greatness?
God's very own river of bounty is flowing for your sake!

*PaNDit Brij Naraa'in Chakbast Lakhnavi*

....................

us kii *qudrat* se phuul mahke
phhuuloN pih parind aa ke chahke

With His *power*, the flowers emitted sweet scent
Upon the flowers, birds came to rest and chirped

(From Khudaa kii san3at [God's creation] by *Isma'il Merathi*)

Fianlly, of course "*qudrat*" means "*nature*" as well and one can find many such usages too.


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## BP.

QP, qa-da-ra has two meanings: 1- power/ability/...the one you give, used as in _qudrah_; 2- destiny, the one in _taqdiir_. _qadr _might mean any of the two, the inference depending on the context. 

Some of those ash3aar still carry mafhuum, a different one nonetheless, with the second meaning plugged in.



QURESHPOR said:


> ...
> Fianlly, of course "*qudrat*" means "*nature*" as well and one can find many such usages too.
> ....


Why don't we have qaanuun ee qudrat? What distinguished fitrat from qudrat?




QURESHPOR said:


> ...
> (kavaakib=stars; from taaroN bharii raat by *Saif Lakhnavi*)
> ....


I thought _kawaakib _was used especially for heavenly bodies, particularly planets, to distinguish them from _nujuum_, the stars.
That's a jumlae muta3arraza, let's not change the direction of the discussion.


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## rahulbemba

tonyspeed said:


> I am interested in language, but I am not interested in political propaganda or the form of Hindi espoused by the government of India and those with other agendas. When I say Hindi I mean colloquial Hindi which overlaps with Urdu in many points.



I don't know what you refer to as "political propaganda" or "govt of India" etc. I didn't want to indicate anything like this. So I would ignore this point. 

You see the forum from the beginning. For your question, BelligerentPacifist gave words like: amr illaa, inshaa2 Allaah, quereshpor gave words like qazaa-o-qadr/ qazaa-i-ilaahii, none of these are used commonplace in Hindi. Hindi speakers gave you words which are not of Urdu or not "overlapping" with it at all. Like "daivi ghatna", and whatever. This is why I pointed to you. As such it is perfectly alright to ask for Hindi as well as Urdu equivalents of the words. I am a Hindi speaker living in India and I feel the words or terms which have come from other languages like Punjabi, Gujarati, Marathi: those are more in occurrence than the Urdu ones. But yes, many Urdu words find place in Hindi language and it becomes "one" - indistinguishable for the speakers. Anyways, thanks, I hope you got many new words from the above posts in this forum.


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## rahulbemba

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I would have phrased that "Among the various secondary meanings of qudrat is nature", otherwise it would be misleading for a novice.



No, Hindi speakers use qudarat/qudrat only for "nature". We don't really use it for any other meaning - "various secondary meanings" would be too far-fetched so I can't say that.


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## rahulbemba

@QURESHPOR: 

// qudrat (for A. قدرة, inf. n. of قدر 'to be able,' &c.), s.f. Power, ability, potency, vigour, force, authority, virtue; divine power, omnipotence;—the creation, the universe, nature:—qudrat rakhnā (-kī), To have power (to), to be able. //

I know the meaning of the word, I read it here. First of all words like power, potency, vigour, foroce, etc, are synonyms - you can't say just because nature appears in the end of the list, it is of least importance. 

In Hindi, when we say qudarat, we mean nature. But when we say things like "kudrat ne aisa kiya", or "kudrat ko yahi sweekaar tha", etc, we do mean not nature alone, but the "powerful" aspect of "nature" only. 

The list of shers, poems and songs you have provided, are using the word in Urdu. I never refuted that in Urdu, Qudrat may be meaning God. But in Hindi we use it as nature only, as other Hindi speakers in the forum have also said.


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## Qureshpor

rahulbemba said:


> @QURESHPOR:
> 
> // qudrat (for A. قدرة, inf. n. of قدر 'to be able,' &c.), s.f.  Power, ability, potency, vigour, force, authority, virtue; divine power,  omnipotence;—the creation, the universe, nature:—qudrat rakhnā (-kī),  To have power (to), to be able. //
> 
> I know the meaning of the word, I read it here. First of all words like  power, potency, vigour, foroce, etc, are synonyms - you can't say just  because nature appears in the end of the list, it is of least  importance.
> 
> No, that was not my inference. What I was implying  was that the prime meaning has to do with power and this power is not  hydro, solar, wind, nuclear etc (i.e.enegy) but divine power. No meaning  is of any lesser significance. "nature" is equally important.
> 
> In Hindi, when we say qudarat, we mean nature. But when we say things  like "kudrat ne aisa kiya", or "kudrat ko yahi sweekaar tha", etc, we do  mean not nature alone, but the "powerful" aspect of "nature" only.
> 
> We shall agree to disagree but I suggest you check  out some prose or poetry of your renowned writers. "kudrat ko yahi  sweekaar tha" is the direct transference into Hindi of the Urdu "qudrat  ko yahii manzuur thaa" and this, I assure you, means that whatever has  happened, was ordained by God!
> 
> The list of shers, poems and songs you have provided, are using the word  in Urdu. I never refuted that in Urdu, Qudrat may be meaning God. But  in Hindi we use it as nature only, as other Hindi speakers in the forum  have also said.
> 
> The shi'r (or shi3r, [sher means lion etc]) that I have quoted are indeed Urdu. They are in response to your comment..
> 
> *When one speaks "Qudrat" either in India* *or in Hindi, it means "nature"*.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> 1) When one speaks "Qudrat" in India, it means "nature"
> 
> 2) When one speaks "Qudrat" in Hindi, it means "nature".
> 
> My reply was to your first option because all those people quoted (and  many many more) were speaking in India. And, there are still many many  more who are still speaking in India. I could have quoted more recent  writers (living or deceased) but there was no point. For us, this word's  meaning is diverse. If I had read a substantial amout of Hindi literature, I would have quoted Hindi writers as well.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> QP, qa-da-ra has two meanings: 1- power/ability/...the one you give, used as in _qudrah_; 2- destiny, the one in _taqdiir_. _qadr _might mean any of the two, the inference depending on the context.
> 
> Some of those ash3aar still carry mafhuum, a different one nonetheless, with the second meaning plugged in.
> 
> Let us not confuse the issue, BP SaaHib!
> 
> Why don't we have qaanuun ee qudrat? What distinguished fitrat from qudrat?
> 
> There is no reason why we can't. However, "fitrat" does carry the meaning of "innate nature" in a living being, especially man. Let me quote you an astounding shi'r by Iqbal and a translation by a friend from another forum.
> 
> Hifz-i-asraar kaa fitrat ko hai saudaa aisaa
> raazdaaN phir nah kare gii ko'ii paida aisaa
> 
> [Nature is so obsessed with keeping its secrets, that it will never produce another person (like Shakespeare) who knows all its secrets.] Among hundreds of tributes paid to Shakepeare in many languages, this she'r must be the most outstanding.]
> 
> 
> I thought _kawaakib _was used especially for heavenly bodies, particularly planets, to distinguish them from _nujuum_, the stars. That's a jumlae muta3arraza, let's not change the direction of the discussion.
> 
> A کواکب _kawākib_, s.m. pl. (of _*kaukab*_), Stars; constellations. (Platts)
> 
> Stars, planets, moons, asteroids, space stations, rockets, astranuts, cosmanauts...they are all heavenly bodies!
> [In Arabic, "kaukab cinimaa'ii" =film star]


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## cherine

Moderator note:

Hi everyone,

It seems you can't seem to agree to disagree, so allow me a little sisterly advise: Try to accept that there are differences between Hindi and Urdu (wherever they're spoken and by whomever speaks them). Whenever one of the forum members gives an answer, he or she can simply clarifies what this answer comes from. For example: Urdu speakers in X use this word in their daily life, but they use this other word in their litterature. Hindi speakers in Y use this word in so and so situation, but not in other situations.

Maybe this way the answers will be clear and the learners won't be confused by unnecessary debates.

Further off-topic disccusions about general differences between Hindi and Urdu will not be accepeted unless they're done in a thread dedicated to that particulr topic.

Thank you all for your understanding and your help keeping the forum organized and within the rules.

Regards,
Cherine
On behalf of the moderator team


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## Cilquiestsuens

tonyspeed said:


> In English we have a phrase "act of God" which people call an accidental happening. Are there identical Hindi and Urdu equivalents for this? In one Bank document, I found the term devi ghatnaa for the Hindi term.
> 
> What terms are commonly used that have the same connotation?



Most of the discussion so far revolved around the word nature. I don't think the legal word Act of God has been aptly translated so far except in Rahulbemba's post as '*daivi ghatna*'. 

I don't know the exact equivalent in Urdu, but I guess it might be something like *nagahaanii aafaat / haadsaat* or even *haalaat* (If you want to make it more formal = *aafaat / haadsaat / haalaat -e nagahaanii*. The mention of God doesn't seem necessary to me, since in the Muslim belief, there is not a single act on this world that doesn't originate from God's will. I rather find the English expression abnormal or funny if you like, as if God's will was just about unexpected events???? Do we necessarily have to stick to it.

Request to the Mods =  the discussion about nature, however controversial, was quite interesting and deserves a thread of its own..


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## souminwé

I've always thought _liila_ was the specific word divine acts?


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## greatbear

While often used in phrases like "bhagwaan kii liilaa" or "uski liilaa" (where "uski" refers to God), the word in itself could refer to anyone, not just God (that is why, "bhagwaan ki", and not just "liilaa"). However, your suggestion is a very good one; I think "bhagwaan ki liilaa" would be an excellent translation here (even though it would more mean a divine play of events rather than divine will).


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> While often used in phrases like "bhagwaan kii liilaa" or "uski liilaa" (where "uski" refers to God), the word in itself could refer to anyone, not just God (that is why, "bhagwaan ki", and not just "liilaa"). However, your suggestion is a very good one; I think "bhagwaan ki liilaa" would be an excellent translation here (even though it would more mean a divine play of events rather than divine will).



I am not sure if "liilaa" fits the bill. Platts translates it more as a "play" than a "disaster". In other words, one would use "liilaa" for God's benevolence, perhaps.


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## greatbear

But neither does the original term under query, "act of God," in itself convey a sense of disaster: an act could be benevolent as well. It is another matter how it is used, just as "liilaa" could be very well in my opinion.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> But neither does the original term under query, "act of God," in itself convey a sense of disaster: an act could be benevolent as well. It is another matter how it is used, just as "liilaa" could be very well in my opinion.



Perhaps I ought to have used "accidental occurrence" as per the initial post. However, invariably these natural "accidents" are disasters..femine, floods, earthquakes...


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