# Work with it.



## 22caps

I'm having trouble finding a way to translate this phrase into Latin.  It's used in the most general sense.  "Work" would be in the second person singular imperative.  For "it", given that this is an abstract phrase, I'm wondering if the neuter is best?

For a better sense of context, this could be used in the phrase "Whatever happens in life, find way to work with it."  (Although here, work would be in the infinitive).  But that should demonstrate the general, abstract sense of "it".

Is it better to use "operare" or "laborare"?  My attempts:  "Labora cum id". Or "Operare cum id".  I speak several romance languages, but my Latin is barely existent.  Many thanks!


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## bearded

22caps said:


> cum id


Hi
Specialists will hopefully reply to you in a satisfactory manner. What I can tell you is that ''cum id'' is wrong, because the preposition ''cum'' requires the ablative case, whereas ''id'' is nominative/accusative (you know: declensions...).  Correct would be ''cum eo'' (which however can mean also ''with him'': so they will let you know whether it is idiomatic in your intended meaning. Alternatively, they will suggest different phrases).


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## Scholiast

saluete amici

Instead of _laborare_ or_ operare_ (both of which to me carry the wrong nuances for what you are trying to say), I would suggest _subsistere_, which is intransitive ('stand firm', 'stay strong'), so requires no 'with it' expression.

Σ


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## 22caps

Hi!

Thanks for the reply!

Interesting about the declension in this case creating some confusion as to the gender.  Yes, I will be interested to hear if someone else has another opinion on that.

I like the suggestion of another word, however to me "subsistere" lacks a feeling of interaction.  For example, in the sentence "Whatever happens in life, work with it" there is a sense of taking those obstacles and interacting with them.  Whereas subsistere really puts all the emphasis on the subject, and not on the taking action with whatever the obstacle is.  I do think that laborare and operare both may have a negative (laborious) connotation, so I'm open to another word.  But something that requires an object (in whatever declension) would be best.

Thanks!


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## Sobakus

Hi 22caps. I see in your translation attempt an insensitivity to the fact that we're dealing with an idiom, an expression whose meaning does not constitute the sum of its parts.

In your example “Whatever happens in life, find a way to work with it”, the expression cannot be replaced by, and so isn't equivalent to “labour with it”, “earn money with it”, or even “fulfill the task with it”, which shows that in actual fact, the sense of the word _work_ doesn't come into play. Rather the meaning of the expression is:* “don't run away from a difficult starting condition, don't refuse to start something just because it looks difficult; take what you're given as a starting point to achieve something better, make the best of your situation”.* Clearly, the idiom is derived from the speech of artisans who, upon seeing the material they were supposed to work with, would either take up the job or refuse it outright, fearing that their best effort would still result in subpar quality – or, to use another artisan expression, that the job was that of “polishing a turd” (incidentally also an idiom not to be literally translated).

The expression “I can work with it” is therefore used to signal being prepared to make the best one can of a given situation, and to take on the obligations that one is presented with. It's a quintessentially American expression reflecting that *can-do culture. *Compare the parallel _I can live with it,_ which expresses a different yet similar attitude.

Do you agree with my assessment? Is this what you want to express? You say you speak several Romance languages; although I don't speak them per say _(sic),_ I'm pretty sure that native speakers of any of those languages will reject a literal translation of the English idiom in question. Therefore, whatever your answer to the questions above, I would suggest that you first rely on your knowledge of these Romance languages in order to find good idiomatic equivalents; these equivalents will almost certainly give you a better understanding of the meanings conveyed by the English idiom, as well as some ideas on how to phrase the same thought differently in English. This in turn should be give us a solid foundation for going about translating it into Latin.


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## 22caps

Hi, Sobakus.

Thank you for the very well thought-out response!  I speak Spanish, Italian, and French.  None of them are my native language, though.

I admit that even in those languages, it would be difficult to find an exact translation.  In Spanish, I see no problem with saying something like "Si la vida es difícil, pues trabaja con eso".

You are right to point out the idiomatic usage here that is the same with the phrase "to live with it".  And perhaps that is tainting my viewpoint some.

You're also astute to point out the connection with artisans.  That is almost exactly the meaning I want to convey.  If there are difficulties in life, work with them.  If there is a knot in the wood, perhaps the carpenter can "work with it" and make it part of the piece.  Of course, here the gender of the word "it" would be that of the word "knot", but this should give us a general idea of what word for "work" might be best in Latin.  This comparison with a carpenter who integrates the knot into the furniture works for the phrase I'm looking for in that the knot is something that is seemingly an imperfection, obstacle, or difficulty-- yet instead of giving up, one learns to "Work with it."


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## Sobakus

Thank you for confirming my intuition, 22caps. I now better understand the sense you're trying to convey, but I still see a problem with doing it in Latin as well as in Romance languages, or Germanic, or Slavic for that matter. I think the nuance you're describing creates a sort of pun in English. That is, the expression is close enough to the sum of its parts that you can tease out specific connotations from the verb it employs, which for _work_ are different than for _live. _But the sum is still an idiom whose word-by-word translation wouldn't be comprehensible in the majority of the world's languages, I imagine. With Mexican and especially US Spanish, I imagine the possibility of literal translation is due to the general influence of English phraseology on the speech of the Spanish-speaking community there. I think there are many similar cases of expressions that wouldn't be accepted by speakers of other Spanishes.

Meanwhile, other languages have their own phraseology and it wouldn't be possible to express the subtle connotations of English _work_ in those simply because such a verb cannot express the idiom's main meaning successfully. The alternative expressions/translation equivalents I was thinking of were something like, to take Italian as an example: _posso adattarmi, posso farmelo andar bene, tanto mi può bastare_ (taken from reverso). There are certainly some dictionaries in existence where the English expression is given some translation equivalents that can be of use. These I think should serve as the start for translating this into Latin, but I don't think we'll be able to employ either a verb for working=shaping a material, and probably not any artisanal (what a word!) idiom/metaphor in general.


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## S.V.

_Fortuna veniat, eandem incudem tundemus_.


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