# Mid-Range Demonstratives



## Jamal31

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone knows the missing Harakat for following words:

ذَاكَ= That (Mas.)
تِيكَ = That (Fem.)
ذَانِكَ/ذَينِكَ = Those (Dual Masc.)
تَانِكَ/تَينِكَ = Those (Dual Fem.)
أُؤلَٰئِكَ = Those (Plural Masc)
ﺃولِوكَ = Those (Plural Fem.)

To add more 'context', these are the demonstrative words which are the medium-range distance to their short-range counterparts of هَٰذَا, هَٰذِهِ, هَٰؤُلاءِ, etc. and their long-range counterparts of ذَٰلِكَ, تِلْكَ, etc.
e.g. هَٰذَا الكتاب is "this is the book", and ذَٰلِكَ الكتاب is "that is the book".

Edit: The only one remaining is the Fem. plural ﺃولِوكَ


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## Matat

I searched many places, but I could not find nor have I ever heard of the word "أولوك" anywhere. Where did you hear this word? There exists another mid-range demonstrative which is َأُوْلَاك, but this is synonymous with أولئك (i.e. in the same way that short range demonstratives أولى and أولاء are synonymous). Both أولاك and أولئك work for both plural masculine and plural feminine.
أولاك/أولئك مدرسون = Those people are teachers (masculine).
أولاك/أولئك مدرسات = Those people are teachers (feminine).

As for the rest of the demonstratives, all are correct and none are missing their harakaat. Just note that the و letter in أولئك and أولاك is written, but it does not get pronounced.


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## Jamal31

Matat said:


> I searched many places, but I could not find nor have I ever heard of the word "أولوك" anywhere. Where did you hear this word?


Thanks for your effort. I myself had never heard of it before either and tried searching for it everywhere. I found it in a translated version of Rashid Al-Shartuni's book of Arabic Morphology. It is possible that perhaps due to a formatting error it it came out spelled incorrectly.

Here is the segment from the book:

_• For things that are close: 

  1. *هذا* (this, m.)
  2. *هذانِ* (these two, m.)
  3. *هَوُلاء* (these, m.)
  4. *هذهِ* (this, f.)
  5. *هَاتانِ* (these two, f.)
  6. *هَوُلاء* (these, f.)

• For things that are medium range:

  1. *ذاکَ* (that, m.)
  2. *ذانِکَ* (those two, m.)
  3. *ﺃولئکَ* (those, m.)
  4. *تیکَ (*that, f.)
  5. *تانِکَ* (those two, f.)
  6. *ﺃولِوکَ* (those, f.)

• For things that are far:

  1. *ذلِکَ* (that, m.)
  2. *ذانّکَ* (those two, m.)
  3. *ﺃولالِکَ* (those, m.)
  4. *تِلکَ* (that, f.)
  5. *تانّکَ* (those two, f.)
  6. *ﺃولالِکَ* (those, f.)

• For places: 

  1. *هُنا* (here)
  2. *هُناکَ* (there, medium range)
  3. *هُنالِک تَمّ* (there, far)_



Matat said:


> Just note that the و letter in أولئك and أولاك is written, but it does not get pronounced.


Is this because the و is actually a ؤ?


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## Matat

I typed in what you wrote on Google and got to this page. I then looked at the original Arabic book written by Al-Shartuni and everything in it regarding the demonstratives seems correct; it's the page that I linked which has incorrectly transcribed what he wrote. Al-Shartuni writes أولئك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are a medium distance away and أولالك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are far away. The translated page also incorrectly wrote ثَمَّ as تَمَّ and هؤلاء as هولاء, though in the original Arabic book they are spelled correctly.



Jamal31 said:


> Is this because the و is actually a ؤ?


No, it's not a ؤ, it's a regular و. It's just not pronounced.


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## Jamal31

Matat said:


> I typed in what you wrote on Google and got to this page. I then looked at the original Arabic book written by Al-Shartuni and everything in it regarding the demonstratives seems correct; it's the page that I linked which has incorrectly transcribed what he wrote. Al-Shartuni writes أولئك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are a medium distance away and أولالك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are far away. The translated page also incorrectly wrote ثَمَّ as تَمَّ and هؤلاء as هولاء, though in the original Arabic book they are spelled correctly.


Thanks for the clarification. Would you happen to have a link to the original book?

Also, in the book the duals are written with a single ن for the mid-range but with a Shaddah over the ن for the far, is this correct?

i.e.
Mid
ذَانِكَ/ذَينِكَ
تَانِكَ/تَينِك

Far
ذَانِّكَ/ذَينِّكَ
تَانِّكَ/تَينِّكَ


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Would you happen to have a link to the original book?



I'm unsure if the author has published it online.




Jamal31 said:


> Also, in the book the duals are written with a single ن for the mid-range but with a Shaddah over the ن for the far, is this correct?



This is a good question. I had never heard this before. I was always under the notion that they just didn't exist. I've found links which simply say that the laam letter cannot enter on the dual demonstrative, such as this:


> المثنى المذكر : ذانك .{ فذانك برهانان من ربك } 32 القصص .
> *مع لام البعد : لا تتصل بالمثنى* ولا الجمع . ذانكما ، ذانكم


but it doesn't mention anything about putting a shadda on the nuun.

Another link I found was this, and if you look at the table they set up, for the dual masculine example, they write in ذان for the near demonstrative, ذانك for the medial, but they simply have a dash through the box for the far distance. This seems to indicate to me that it doesn't exist.

The only sort of information I could find about ذانّك/تانّك was from this forum, where one of the forum members says:


> *ذكر بعض أهل العلم أن تشديد النون في المثنى* يأتي للبعيد عوضا عن اللام المحذوفة
> 
> فعلى هذا يكون (ذانّ) بالتشديد للبعيد و(ذان) بالتخفيف للقريب


This forum member is Abu Malek al-Awdi and he links his Twitter page to his comment. I'm unsure what his qualifications are, but it seems he may be a linguist. Typing his name on Google (in Arabic) gives a few hits to some videos. In the comment on the forum, he says that some scholars have said that putting a shadda on the nuun gives us the far distance demonstratives. Given his use of wording, it seems that some linguists may not agree with this. This was the only and best source I could find to corroborate that information.


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## Jamal31

Thanks very much for the clarification.



Matat said:


> Al-Shartuni writes أولئك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are a medium distance away and أولالك as the masculine and feminine demonstrative for things that are far away.



My last question if for the far plural only أولالك, or if both أولالك and أولئك are listed in the book.


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> My last question if for the far plural only أولالك, or if both أولالك and أولئك are listed in the book.


The book only lists أولالك as the far plural, and this is correct.

You can also see this on the chart on the second link I posted in my last comment (this one). Scroll down to the very last row of the table.
There are two synonymous demonstratives for plurals; they are أولاء and أولى.

For أولى, this is the near distance demonstrative. To make it further, you add the ك and make it أولاك. To make it even further, you can add the laam letter before the ك and make it أولالك.

For أولاء, this is near distance demonstrative. To make it further, you add the ك and make it أولئك. However, you can't add the laam letter (since the Arabs never did this), so أولئك is as far as it goes.


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## Jamal31

Yes thanks I did check out the chart and that's actually what led me to ask because the chart didn't include it in the far column, which is why I wonder if the book had it under far.

Thanks again for the clarification.


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> Thanks again for the clarification.


You're welcome.


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## Jamal31

Pardon the bump, but what exactly is the difference between using the words هُنَالِكَ ثَمَّ and just هُنَالِكَ? Does it just emphasize he distance more?


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> Pardon the bump, but what exactly is the difference between using the words هُنَالِكَ ثَمَّ and just هُنَالِكَ? Does it just emphasize he distance more?



هنالك and ثم are not used together. They are synonymous in the same way أولئك and أولاك are synonymous or how ذوو and أولو are synonymous.

هنالك كتاب= There is a book.
ثَمَّ كتاب = There is a book.


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## Jamal31

Matat said:


> هنالك and ثم are not used together. They are synonymous in the same way أولئك and أولاك are synonymous or how ذوو and أولو are synonymous.corr
> 
> هنالك كتاب= There is a book.
> ثَمَّ كتاب = There is a book.


Ahh I see.

My last questions are why in the chart you linked the fem. sing. تِيكِ does not have the same forms as the others, e.g. تِيكُمَا ,تِيكُنَّ, etc; and the same for the plurals, i.e. is there no أُوْلَاكُمَا, أُوْلَٰئِكُم, etc? There are no such forms for the near demonstratives such has هَٰذَا, correct? And finally, what are the correct final Harakat for the plural of أُوْلَاء?


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> My last questions are why in the chart you linked the fem. sing. تِيكِ does not have the same forms as the others, like تِيكُمَا ,تِيكُنَّ, etc; and the same for the plurals, i.e. is there no أُوْلَاكُمَا, أُوْلَٰئِكُم, etc?


These exist. The author probably just gave an outline to give the readers an idea. The same concept follows:
تيكما هي المدرسة = Here is the school (speaking to two people).
أولاكم أصدقاؤكم = Those are your friends (speaking to a plural group).



Jamal31 said:


> There are no such forms for the near demonstratives such has هَٰذَا, correct?


I don't understand the question.




Jamal31 said:


> And finally, what are the correct final Harakat for the plural of أُوْلَاء?


You wrote it correctly:
أُوْلَاءِ.


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## Jamal31

Matat said:


> I don't understand the question.


I mean, for example, if I were to say "that" talking to one person (i.e. Ahmad), it would be "ذَٰلِكَ"; and the same being said to three people (i.e. Ahmad, Rasheed and Bilal) would be "ذَٰلِكُم". Now if I were to say "this" talking to one person (i.e. Ahmad), it would be "هَٰذَا". So if you were to say "this" to three people (i.e. Ahmad, Rasheed and Bilal) would it still be "هَٰذَا", or could it take another form, like how ذَٰلِكَ becomes ذَٰلِكُم?


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> I mean, for example, if I were to say "that" talking to one person (i.e. Ahmad), it would be "ذَٰلِكَ"; and the same being said to three people (i.e. Ahmad, Rasheed and Bilal) it would be "ذَٰلِكُم". Now if I were to say "this" talking to one person (i.e. Ahmad), it would be "هَٰذَا". So if you were to say "this" to three people (i.e. Ahmad, Rasheed and Bilal) would it still be "هَٰذَا", or could it take another form, like how ذَٰلِكَ becomes ذَٰلِكُم?


Yes, it would still be هذا. The demonstratives هذا هذه هذان هاتان etc. are not different than the demonstratives we've been talking about. They are simply ها+demonstrative.
Examples:
ها+ذا = هذا
ها +ذِهِ = هذه (the table on the link didn't include this demonstrative, but it's the most common one used)
ها+أولاء = هؤلاء

If you were to add the ـك, then it would become mid-range. So you can add the ها here, but it would not have the meaning "this," rather it would have the meaning of "that".
Example:
ها+ذاك = هذاك

However, you can't add the ها to the demonstratives which have a ل before the ك (i.e. basically you can't add it to the far-range demonstratives).


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## Jamal31

Ahh I see. Thanks once again Matat for all your help.


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