# Polite Plural form in Hebrew



## Konstantinos

In Greek and Russia there is polite plural form when you talk to a person and a respection is required. For example, when a pupil talks to the teacher, he uses the second plural person (Εσείς, Вы), not the second singular person (Εσύ, Ты)...

What about Hebrew language?


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## arielipi

1. Refer by title (judge, lawyer, Dr. etc)
2. third singular/plural person
and i think theres another way.


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## Konstantinos

Explain to me with more details please.


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## arielipi

1. like in english you call the judge "your honor" or something similar, in hebrew you say כבודו
2. המורה אמר the teacher said, instead of you said.


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## Konstantinos

So, in Hebrew when you want to talk polite in a person, you use אַתָּה - אַתְּ or אַתֶּם - אַתֶּן?


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## arielipi

Opposite, hebrew views respect when using indirect words because its softer.


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## Konstantinos

I am asking, because I read a bilingual book (Hebrew - Greek and Greek - Hebrew) and it has this sentence:

? באיזה מלוך את / אתה מתגורר/ת

And it translates this sentence in Greek as: Σε ποιό ξενοδοχείο μένετε; (In which hotel you live?)

But in Hebrew it uses the second singlular person (את / אתה מתגורר/ת) and in Greek the second plural person (μένετε), because respect and polite required.


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## arielipi

Well, simply hebrew doesnt think it is impolite to ask that.


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## Konstantinos

So, in this point, Hebrew is easier than Greek or Russian. Thank you...


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## arbelyoni

I agree with arielipi; honorific speech is expressed with the third singular persons, usually with the proper title of the addressee rather than הוא or היא:
מה אדוני ירצה לשתות?
ימשיך כבודו...
Second plural person is never used.

It should be noted though that addressing a person this way in Israel is very very (very!) uncommon. I can't think of a situation in which you may hear it except for maybe court (I imagine. I've never been to one) where it might be part of the tradition addressing the judge as כבוד השופט or simply כבודו.


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## Konstantinos

Thank you. And now, I just realized that third singular person with proper title is also in Greek a polite form for talking in someone, but very rare...

What will you drink?

Friendly asking, second singular person: "Τι θα πιείς;"
Polite asking 1, second plural person: "Τι θα πιείτε;"
Polite asking 2, third singular person with proper title: "Τι θα πιει ο κύριος;"

Thank you again. My mind is content now...


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## Yuzer

It's a cultural thing I guess. Israelis tend to respect directness.


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## David S

Does Yiddish have a T-V distinction, similar to du and Sie in German? I'm wondering why Modern Hebrew doesn't have a T-V distinction. I don't see a reason why Zionists 100 years ago couldn't have started using "atem" (you all) or "hem" (they) for the polite you. This makes Modern Hebrew similar to Modern English, where you use the same word for "you" whether you are talking to the President or to a naughty little kid.


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## bazq

David S said:


> Does Yiddish have a T-V distinction, similar to du and Sie in German? I'm wondering why Modern Hebrew doesn't have a T-V distinction. I don't see a reason why Zionists 100 years ago couldn't have started using "atem" (you all) or "hem" (they) for the polite you. This makes Modern Hebrew similar to Modern English, where you use the same word for "you" whether you are talking to the President or to a naughty little kid.



Yes, Yiddish uses איר (ir) when addressing someone politely, which is the "you plural" (2 pl.) 
As mentioned, Modern Hebrew does not need honorifics as it uses the 3rd sg/pl and titles.


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## fdb

My understanding is that, alongside the familiar “du”, Yiddish does have a polite second person pronoun, which, depending on the dialect, is a reflex of German Ihr, Sie, or Er.

See this: http://ihd.berkeley.edu/Slobin-Language Acquisition/(1963) Slobin - Yiddish pronouns of address.pdf


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## Drink

David S said:


> Does Yiddish have a T-V distinction, similar to du and Sie in German? I'm wondering why Modern Hebrew doesn't have a T-V distinction. I don't see a reason why Zionists 100 years ago couldn't have started using "atem" (you all) or "hem" (they) for the polite you. This makes Modern Hebrew similar to Modern English, where you use the same word for "you" whether you are talking to the President or to a naughty little kid.



Early Zionists wanted to make the language closer to Biblical Hebrew and as far away from Yiddish as possible (which is why they reverted back to "זאת" rather than "זו" and did away with the plural "-ין"). Most Yiddish loans came in later. Biblical Hebrew had no T-V distinction, nor did any other stage of Hebrew.


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## arielipi

Drink said:


> Early Zionists wanted to make the language closer to Biblical Hebrew and as far away from Yiddish as possible (which is why they reverted back to "זאת" rather than "זו" and did away with the plural "-ין"). Most Yiddish loans came in later. Biblical Hebrew had no T-V distinction, nor did any other stage of Hebrew.


whats T-V


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## origumi

arielipi said:


> whats T-V


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T–V_distinction#Hebrew


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## Drink

arielipi said:


> whats T-V



(Other than television...) T-V stands for "tu" and "vous" which are French pronouns for "you". If you know any French you will know that "tu" is the singular and is used for people you know, while "vous" is the plural but is used as a singular for people you are not in familiar terms with or in formal situations.


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## airelibre

Drink said:


> (Other than television...) T-V stands for "tu" and "vous" which are French pronouns for "you". If you know any French you will know that "tu" is the singular and is used for people you know, while "vous" is the plural but is used as a singular for people you are not in familiar terms with or in formal situations.


T-v distinction is actually named after Latin tu and vos.


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## Drink

airelibre said:


> T-v distinction is actually named after Latin tu and vos.



I'm not sure I trust Wikipedia on that point. I don't think Latin itself ever had such a distinction.


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## airelibre

Drink said:


> I'm not sure I trust Wikipedia on that point. I don't think Latin itself ever had such a distinction.


May be of interest: https://sites.google.com/site/tvdistinction/home/history/latin
I'd say it originates from before French was thought of as a separate language. It also appears in Old Spanish, for instance. Tu and vos were around before usted (vuestra merced - plural your mercy)took over.


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## fdb

Drink said:


> Early Zionists wanted to make the language closer to Biblical Hebrew and as far away from Yiddish as possible (which is why they reverted back to "זאת" rather than "זו" and did away with the plural "-ין"). Most Yiddish loans came in later. Biblical Hebrew had no T-V distinction, nor did any other stage of Hebrew.



In principle this is probably correct, except that the plural in –īn does not come from Yiddish but from Aramaic. It occurs already in Mishnaic Hebrew.


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## Drink

fdb said:


> In principle this is probably correct, except that the plural in –īn does not come from Yiddish but from Aramaic. It occurs already in Mishnaic Hebrew.



I didn't mean to imply it came from Yiddish. Also, it is not clear whether it actually came from Aramaic or was an independent development in Mishnaic Hebrew. All I meant is that it was less Biblical, just like זו.


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