# Lendemain / veille



## Dymn

Well, *French* has two words, _le lendemain_ and _la veille_, which refer to 'the day before' and 'the day after'. *English* seems to have 'morrow' and 'eve' for these concepts, but whereas the first is archaic, the second is normally used for holidays, such as 'Christmas Eve', so its usage is quite different.

Does your language have separate words for these ideas?

In *Catalan*:
_le lendemain_: _l'endemà_
_la veille_: no, although we have _vigília_ for days before celebrations and _revetlla_ for celebrations before special days (as in Saint John, the evening of 23 June): _revetlla de Sant Joan._

In *Spanish* I can't think of any word which accomplishes these functions, but it also has _víspera _and _vigilia _for days and _verbena _for celebrations.


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## WestFevalia

In *Italian*:
_le lendemain_: _l'indomani _(I think it's less often used than _il giorno dopo_: the day after)
_la veille_: _la vigilia _(both for the evening before, and the day before celebratioins)


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## apmoy70

Greek has *«παραμονή»* [paɾamoˈni] (fem.) for the day before celebrations (e.g. *«παραμονή Χριστουγέννων»* [paɾamoˈni xristuˈʝenon] --> _eve of Christmas_, *«ανήμερα»* [aˈnimeɾa] (adv.) for the holiday (e.g. *«ανήμερα Χριστουγέννων»* 
[aˈnimeɾa xristuˈʝenon] --> _appointed day of Christmas_), and *«επομένη»* [epoˈmeni] (fem.) for the day after, with the exception of *«Πάσχα»* [ˈpasxa] (neut.) --> _Easter, Pâques, Pasqua_, which has a Second day: *«Δεύτερη ημέρα»* 
[ˈðefteɾi iˈmeɾa].


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## 810senior

In Japanese,

The day after: 翌日_yokujitsu_(_yoku _means next and _jitsu _a day)
*the day after tomorrow: 明後日_asatte_

The day before: 前日zenjitsu(_zen _means before)
*the day before yesterday: 一昨日_ototoi_

These words are not archaic in Japanese.


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## ger4

I'm not quite sure if the German term _Vorabend_ (lit. *pre-evening, *before-evening) fits in here. It can express both literal and figurative meanings:
- the previous evening, the evening before in general (_am Vorabend waren sie eingetroffen_, 'they had arrived the previous evening / the evening before') 
- the early part of the evening, with regard to TV programmes, for instance (_Vorabendprogramm_, 'early evening programme')
- a time period (not just an evening) before a historical turning point (_Vorabend der Revolution_, 'eve of the revolution')  

In contrast to 'eve' in English, _Vorabend_ isn't used in expressions like 'Christmas Eve' - instead, we use the general term _Abend_ --> _Weihnachtsabend_


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## mataripis

Tagalog:Bago pa man sumapit/ makatalikod ng isang araw.


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## bibax

Czech:

*předvečer* (= Vor-Abend) is the evening before a feast, or figuratively before an important event/period (_*předvečer revoluce*_ = 'eve of the revolution');

arch. *svatvečer* (< svatý = holly, saint + večer = evening, Abend, vesper);

It is related to the fact that the Catholic feasts (essentially all days) begin in the evening (i.e. at sunset, or when three second-magnitude stars appear), cf. the vespers (nešpory in Czech).

Christmas Eve = *Štědrý večer* (= bountiful/copious evening);

In Bohemia/Moravia the Christmas begins on December 24th at sunset (Jesus was born in that night and Jesulus (Little Jesus) is also the Christmas gift-bringer, no Santas).


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## Encolpius

I don't understand the question...


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## Dymn

Encolpius said:


> I don't understand the question...


For example, when you are explaining a journey to someone, you would say: 'The next day,...' or 'The day before,...'. In French, they have special words for these constructions, and in Catalan we have the one refering to the day after. Do you have any special word in Hungarian? I'm afraid that I have complicated the issue a bit with the celebrations.


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## TitTornade

To complete the words given by _Diamant7 _and to explain to _Encolpius_, we have in a chronologic way :
- the day before the day before :* l'avant-veille*
- the day before : *la veille*
(- the day before a special day : le réveillon, for example : the evening before Christmas = le réveillon de Noël)
- any day : *un certain jour*
- the day after :* le lendemain*
- the day after the day after :* le surlendemain*


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## Encolpius

Oooooohh, I see now... interesting

There is no special word for that in Hungarian 

le lendemain -- másnap [más other, nap day]
la veille -- előző nap [the day before]

But if I am not mistaken then la veille means the whole day (8AM-8PM) while eve only the evening....


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## apmoy70

apmoy70 said:


> Greek has *«παραμονή»* [paɾamoˈni] (fem.) for the day before celebrations (e.g. *«παραμονή Χριστουγέννων»* [paɾamoˈni xristuˈʝenon] --> _eve of Christmas_, *«ανήμερα»* [aˈnimeɾa] (adv.) for the holiday (e.g. *«ανήμερα Χριστουγέννων»*
> [aˈnimeɾa xristuˈʝenon] --> _appointed day of Christmas_), and *«επομένη»* [epoˈmeni] (fem.) for the day after, with the exception of *«Πάσχα»* [ˈpasxa] (neut.) --> _Easter, Pâques, Pasqua_, which has a Second day: *«Δεύτερη ημέρα»*
> [ˈðefteɾi iˈmeɾa].


Apologies for quoting myself, but my previous post describes the days before or after holidays/celebrations/special anniversaries. For chronological days we have:
Yesterday: *«Χθες»* [xθes] or *«χτες»* [xtes] or *«εχθές»* [eˈxθes], Cypriot *«ψες»* [pses] and *«εψές»* [eˈpses] < Classical adv. *«χθές» kʰtés* --> _yesterday_ (PIE *dʰgʰies-, _yesterday_ cf Skt. ह्यस् (hyas); Lat. heri > It./Rom. ieri, Sp. ayer, Fr. hier; Proto-Germanic *gestra > Ger. gestern, Eng. yester(day), Dt. gisteren).
Day-before-yesterday: *«Προχθές»* [proˈxθes] and *«προχτές»* [proˈxtes], Cypriot *«προψές»* [proˈpses] < compound; prefix, adverb, and preposition *«πρό» pró* --> _forth, forward, before, for_ (PIE *pro-, _forward_ cf Skt. प्र (prá); Hitt. parā-; Latin pro-; Proto-Germanic *fram > Eng. from, Isl. fram/frá, D. frem/fra, Swe. fram/från) + *«χθες»* [xθes] (see above).
Day-before-day-before-yesterday: *«Αντιπροχθές»* [andiproˈxθes], Cypriot *«αντιπροψές»* [antiproˈpses] < compound; prefix and preposition *«ἀντί» ăntí* --> _opposite, over against, instead of_ (PIE *h₂ent-, _front, face_ cf Skt. अन्ति (ánti), _in the presence of, facing_; Lat. ante > It. avanti, Sp./Por. ante, Fr. avant, Rom. înainte) + *«προχθές»* [proˈxθes] (see above).
Tomorrow: *«Αύριο»* [ˈavri.o] < Classical adv. *«αὔριον» aúriŏn* --> _tomorrow_ (PIE *h₂eus-r-, _dawn_ cf Skt. उस्र (usra), _morning light, daybreak_; Lith. aušra, _dawn_).
Day-after-tomorrow: *«Μεθαύριο»* [meˈθavri.o] < Byzantine set phrase *«μεθ' αὔριον» meth' aúrion* --> _day after tomorrow_ < compound; prefix and adverb *«μέτᾰ» métă* and *«μετά» mĕtá* --> _in the midst, afterwards, between, with, after_ (PIE *meth₂-, _in the midst, between, after_ cf  Skt. स्मत (smat), _together, at the same time_; Proto-Germanic *midi > Ger. mit, Eng. mid/amid, Dt. met/mede, Isl. með, D./Nor./Swe. med) + Classical adv. *«αὔριον» aúriŏn* (see above).
The shifting from *«μετ' αὔριον»* to *«μεθ' αὔριον»* is a late (probably Byzantine) one and it's...simply erroneous, because *«αὔριον» aúriŏn* takes (or rather, it took) smooth breathing mark, and not rough breathing, there's no need for [t] to change to its aspirated equivalent [tʰ], yet *«μεθ' αὔριον»* has prevailed. 
Day-after-the-day-after-tomorrow: *«Αντιμεθαύριο»* [andimeˈθavri.o] < compound; prefix and preposition *«ἀντί» ăntí* (see above) + *«μεθαύριο»* [meˈθavri.o] (see above).


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## WestFevalia

Encolpius said:


> But if I am not mistaken then la veille means the whole day (8AM-8PM) while eve only the evening....


Yes, if we meant the evening before, we say _la veille *au soir *_(the day before in the evening).


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## Encolpius

Hello Apmoy, nice list, but we are looking for something different. 
It's rather a *direct-indirect speech issue*. Have you got that in Greek? 

(1) He said: "I will leave tomorrow" -- Il a dit: "Je partirai demain". /// (2) He said that he would leave the next day. -- Il a dit qu'il partirait *le lendemain*. 
(3) He said: "I arrived yesterday" -- Il a dit: " Je suis arrivé hier". /// (4) He said that he had arrived the day before. -- Il a dit wu'il était arrivé *la veille*.


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## apmoy70

Encolpius said:


> Hello Apmoy, nice list, but we are looking for something different.
> It's rather a *direct-indirect speech issue*. Have you got that in Greek?
> 
> (1) He said: "I will leave tomorrow" -- Il a dit: "Je partirai demain". /// (2) He said that he would leave the next day. -- Il a dit qu'il partirait *le lendemain*.
> (3) He said: "I arrived yesterday" -- Il a dit: " Je suis arrivé hier". /// (4) He said that he had arrived the day before. -- Il a dit wu'il était arrivé *la veille*.


Hi Encolpius,
thanks for the helping me clear things up.
Yes we do, but for the day after (I don't think we have anything for the day before):
-Adv. *«επαύριον»* [eˈpavri.on] < Classical adv. *«ἐπαύριον» ĕpaúriŏn* --> _on the morrow_ < compound; Classical adv. & prefix *«ἔπι» épĭ* --> _on it, at it_ (PIE *h₁epi-, _on_ cf Skt. अपि (ápi), _also, too_; Arm. եվ (yev), _also, and_) + Classical adv. *«αὔριον» aúriŏn* --> _tomorrow_ (see my previous long post).
The ancients used the nominalised fem. adj. *«ὑστεραίᾱ» hŭstĕraíā* (fem.) --> _the next (day is omitted)_ (PIE *ud-tero-, _higher, outer_ cf Skt. adj. उत्तर (uttara), _posterior, latter_).


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## rusita preciosa

*Russian:

*_le lendemain_: *на следующий день */na sleduiyshiy den/ - simply "on the following day"

_la veille_: *накануне* /nakanune/ - special term similar to _la veille/__la vigilia _(prayer/service on the evening before; cognate with "canon" which is a structured church hymn in Esatern Orthodox services)


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## ger4

Adding a couple of German expressions:

1. The day before:
a. am Tag zuvor - lit. on-the day before
b. am Vortag - lit. on-the before-day
c. am vorhergehenden Tag - lit. on-the before-going day  
d. am vorhergegangenen Tag - lit. on-the before[fore-here]-having-gone day 
e. am vorausgegangenen Tag - lit. on-the before[fore-out]-having-gone day 

2. The evening before ~ the eve of:
a. am Abend zuvor - lit. on-the evening before
b. am Vorabend - lit. on-the before-evening, 

3. The next morning ~ the morning after:
a. am nächsten Morgen - lit. on the next morning
b. am darauffolgenden Morgen -  lit. on-the thereupon-following morning

4. The next day:
a. am nächsten Tag - lit. on-the next day
b. am darauffolgenden Tag - lit. on the thereupon-following day

a = these expressions tend to be preferred to the other ones in everyday speech
b = those are a bit more formal
1c = tends to be preferred when talking about future plans
1d, 1e = preferred when talking about past events
2b = this would be the closest equivalent to English 'eve' >>

The examples provided here can be translated like this:

He said: "I will leave tomorrow"  
Il a dit: "Je partirai demain". 
Er sagte: "Ich werde morgen abfahren"

He said that he would leave the next day. 
Il a dit qu'il partirait le lendemain. 
Er sagte, dass er am nächsten Tag abfahren werde.

He said: "I arrived yesterday" 
Il a dit: "Je suis arrivé hier".
Er sagte: "Ich bin gestern angekommen."

He said that he had arrived the day before. 
Il a dit qu'il était arrivé la veille.
Er sagte, dass er am Tag zuvor angekommen sei.


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## ThomasK

In Dutch: 
- la veille: *de dag voordien*, 
- le lendemain: *'s anderendaags *(the other day)


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## OneStroke

Chinese:

翌日 翌日 yìrì - Le lendemain

前夕 前夕 qiánxī - La veille - usually used for events or holidays though

I'm sure someone more cultured than I am can come up with a better translation for 'veille' (other than 前一天, 'the day before).


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## igusarov

Diamant7, are you interested only in _nouns_ denoting the previous and the next days? I'm asking because in Russian we use _adverbs of time_ for that purpose at least as often. In fact, I wouldn't have used nouns in any of Encolpius's examples (post #14, direct vs. indirect speech).


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## Dymn

igusarov said:


> Diamant7, are you interested only in _nouns_ denoting the previous and the next days? I'm asking because in Russian we use _adverbs of time_ for that purpose at least as often. In fact, I wouldn't have used nouns in any of Encolpius's examples (post #14, direct vs. indirect speech).


Maybe more in adverbs, but you can tell both if you want.


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## Outsider

If I remember well, this previous thread concerned the same subject.


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## OneStroke

Outsider said:


> If I remember well, this previous thread concerned the same subject.



Actually, technically they don't concern the same concept. That was about après-demain / avant-hier, which are based on the present. This is about lendemain / veille, which we use with a reference point in the past.


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## Penyafort

Diamant7 said:


> In *Catalan*:
> _le lendemain_: _l'endemà_
> _la veille_: *no*, although we have _vigília_ for days before celebrations



Don't forget* la vetlla* in Catalan. While it's true that *vetlla *and *vigília *are mainly used for the days/evenings before celebrations, it is not impossible to use them just with the meaning of 'the day before'.



Diamant7 said:


> In *Spanish* I can't think of any word which accomplishes these functions, but it also has _víspera _and _vigilia _for days and _verbena _for celebrations.



Same thing here. *Víspera *and *vigilia *are mainly used for evenings before celebrations indeed, but they can also be simply used for the day before. I'd say what happens is just that, since they are not common spoken words, it's all logical that they're mainly reserved for special occasions.


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