# Vengo llorado de casa



## MonsieurGonzalito

Friends,

   In Spain they have the expression: "Yo ya vengo llorado de casa", meaning, that all the necessary crying was already done at home (in the sense of not showing weakness in front of others).

Would _"I came (already) cried from home"_ work?

 My understanding is that there is a certain reluctance in English, to use intransitive verbs' participles as attributes.


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## Bevj

'I came cried' no es correcto. 
Yo diría 'I did my crying at home'.


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## S.V.

She's coming from home all cried out and ready to...


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## FromPA

Bevj said:


> 'I came cried' no es correcto.
> Yo diría 'I did my crying at home'.


There is no set phrase in English that corresponds to the Spanish phrase,  but Bevj’s suggestion says it well.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Would @S.V. ' s suggestion be valid?

Rather than a translation, I am interested in whether or not is valid to use the participle _cried _intransitively in some way, in the same sense as in Spanish.


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## Bevj

'All cried out' is valid grammatically.  It sounds a bit odd to my BrE ears but it is not incorrect.
I can't think of any other way to use _cried_.


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## elroy

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> I am interested in whether or not is valid to use the participle _cried _intransitively in some way, in the same sense as in Spanish.


You must mean transitively?


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## S.V.

FromPA said:


> Bevj’s suggestion says it well.


 Agree. Think I remembered OP asking about these adjectives. Hope everyone's starting this week all rested up, and at peace.


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## Jektor

S.V. said:


> She's coming from home all cried out and ready to...





Bevj said:


> 'All cried out' is valid grammatically.  It sounds a bit odd to my BrE ears but it is not incorrect.
> I can't think of any other way to use _cried_.
> .


wordreference.com - all-cried-out.319604
lyricstranslate.com - all-cried-out-llorado-todo
.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

elroy said:


> You must mean transitively?


No. Intransitively.


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## bandini

I agree with Bev's first response.


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## Pokeflute

"All cried out" a mí me suena muy mal. Hay verbos que permiten esta construcción (por ejemplo "all tired out" o "all wrung out") pero para mí "to cry" no es uno de ellos.

Supongo que hay lugares donde se habla así pero yo no lo diría (como ya dijeron Bevj y los demás)

EDIT: acabo de darme cuenta de que "to tire" y "to wring" son verbos transitivos (y "to cry" no lo es). Tal vez esto lo explica.

Por ejemplo: "She was playing soccer and missed the big goal. Her coach was furious and started screaming at her. When she finally came home, all yelled out, she was not in the mood to talk."

Aquí con "all yelled out" el entrenador (no la mujer) es el que regañó.


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## gengo

S.V. said:


> She's coming from home all cried out and ready to...


"All cried out" is probably how I would express the idea of having cried so much that I can no longer shed any tears.  It sounds perfectly natural in my English.  However, it doesn't convey the nuance mentioned by the OP, of not showing your emotional weakness, and merely means that you can't cry anymore.

M. Gonzalito, if you give us a full sentence with plenty of context, we can suggest translations that sound natural.

Here's an example of how the above phrase might be used.

-I'm so sorry to hear that your wife passed away.
-Thanks.
-You seem to be holding up very well.
-It's just that I'm all cried out.


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## DAlvarez

I shed all my tears at home.


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## gengo

DAlvarez said:


> I shed all my tears at home.



That works very well if it is important to include the idea of having cried at home.


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## Marsianitoh

I prefer Bevj's suggestion of "I did my crying at home", in my opinion,  it keeps the tone of the original. "I shed my tears..." sounds more literary/pompous, like " derramé todas mis lágrimas en casa".


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## elroy

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> No. Intransitively.


I'm confused.
The intransitive use of "llorar" and "to cry" is the ordinary one ("Ayer lloré," "Yesterday I cried"). 
What is unusual/interesting about your example, "Yo ya vengo llorado de casa," is that "llorado" here is the past participle of a _transitive_ verb: si yo vengo llorado, es que algo o alguien me "lloró" (obviously that's not the literal meaning, but morphosyntactically it has to be analyzed as a transitive verb). 
So I thought your question was whether in English, we can similarly say that someone or something is "cried" (past participle of a transitive verb).
If you're asking if "to cry" can be used _intransitively_, the answer is a clear yes since as I said that's the ordinary use of the verb.


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## bandini

I can't remember ever hearing this.  Is this usage restricted to Spain?


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## gato radioso

But I´d dear to suggest that the meaning of the Spanish expression is slightly different.
When I say that, what I mean is _I´m not so naive as you think..._or _I´m not a freshman here _or_ Don´t you think you have to explain everything to me, I´m not a fool_... something like that.


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## elroy

gato radioso said:


> When I say that, what I mean is _I´m not so naive as you think..._or _I´m not a freshman here _or_ Don´t you think you have to explain everything to me, I´m not a fool_... something like that.


I wasn’t born yesterday?


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## Marsianitoh

gato radioso said:


> But I´d dear to suggest that the meaning of the Spanish expression is slightly different.
> When I say that, what I mean is _I´m not so naive as you think..._or _I´m not a freshman here _or_ Don´t you think you have to explain everything to me, I´m not a fool_... something like that.


I've never heard that.
Around here expressions like " vengo comido" ( I had lunch before coming here) or " vengo duchado del gimnasio" etc are quite common, I understand Gonzalito's sentence as a variation of that. For instance, one of my teachers at uni used to tell us before every exam that we were not allowed to go to the toilet because " a los examenes se viene cagado y meado".


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## DAlvarez

It is not a bog-standard idiomatic expression in Spanish, but it has been used in article titles in El País or Madrid Diario nevertheless:

"Al trabajo hay que llegar llorado de casa"
En la política hay que venir llorado de casa


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## S.V.

bandini said:


> I can't remember ever hearing this.


Hola. Ves más ejemplos en 27.9 & 27.10. _Llorado_ no es común acá, pero se entiende. Otros te serán naturales, como en #21.

Puedes asociarlo con ese _recién_. _Recién llegados ustedes y recién llorado vengo yo, de cortar cebollas._


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## Fernando

Note that "llorar" (cry) is also intransitive in Spanish and that you can not construct "comer" in the passive voice in first person (unless you are a cannibal of yourself). 

The expressions are NOT gramatically correct in Spanish in a strict point of view. They are (or began as) humoristic expressions. The expressions they come from are the (correct) "Por favor, venid lavados/duchados/vestidos/preparados, etc. de casa", which use reflexive verbs ("Yo me lavo/ducho/visto/preparo...").

Even when I am an Spaniard, I would not expect them to be used outside Spain.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

elroy said:


> si yo vengo llorado, es que algo o alguien me "lloró"


No. Only transitive verbs' participles in Spanish (or English) reflect passivity and some external agency.


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## gengo

elroy said:


> si yo vengo llorado, es que algo o alguien me "lloró"


I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa."  If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.


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## gato radioso

elroy said:


> I wasn’t born yesterday?


Yes, it´s the same idea more or less. I´d say "_No he nacido ayer"_ when someone clearly tries to deceive me. On the other hand, I´d say "_Ya vengo llorado de casa" _when facing a harsh situation on when someone tries to impress me exaggerating the difficulties or downsides of something.


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## Fernando

gengo said:


> I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa."  If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.


The expression would be 'Vengo habiendo llorado EN casa' or, more clearly,  'Vengo de casa habiendo llorado ya'.

I see no ellipsis anyway. It is a claque of the expression 'Vengo duchado de casa', with a verb which does not admit such a construction, and the speaker knows it and uses it as a joke.


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## Marsianitoh

_ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
_ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).


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## gengo

Marsianitoh said:


> _ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
> _ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
> There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).


And in that example, it seems to me like an ellipsis of "vendré habiendo cenado."

But what do I know?


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## Marsianitoh

gengo said:


> And in that example, it seems to me like an ellipsis of "vendré habiendo cenado."
> 
> But what do I know?


Maybe you are right.


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## gato radioso

gengo said:


> And in that example, it seems to me like an ellipsis of "vendré habiendo cenado."
> 
> But what do I know?


Another option:
..._vendré ya cenado_

When ya doesn´t mean "now", but implies an idea of conclusion, that something that have just finished.


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## Fernando

Marsianitoh said:


> _ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
> _ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
> There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).


Of course I can understand what the speaker says when he says 'Vendré cenado', but the literal meaning would be 'I will come when others had eaten me as a dinner (main course, I guess)'.

You 'can not' use it the same as you can not use 'Vendré leído' (some has read you?) or 'Vendré estudiado' or 'Vendré trabajado'. 

If you use it with a reflexive verb ('Vendré duchado') there are no possible interpretations.

Only my perception.


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## Marsianitoh

Fernando said:


> Of course I can understand what the speaker says when he says 'Vendré cenado', but the literal meaning would be 'I will come when others had eaten me as a dinner (main course, I guess).


But the literal meaning being absurd, everyone understands the correct meaning. It's a widely used expression. 
I wouldn't find it odd to tell my students " Venid estudia(d)os al examen". And I wouldn't say " vendré leído" but if I say that my mum " es muy leída" everyone understands she's read a lot (unluckily she's not a best selling author), so there's some wriggle space when understanding the meaning of participles.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

The reason why I put is in the English thread, is just to ascertain to what degree an intransitive participle used attributively is acceptable to anglophones.

It would seem that, in principle, straight intransitive participles are not palatable as atributes, to English speakers. 
But, once "colored", "softened" by some kind of attribute, they become a little less abrupt to their ears:

_we will vaccinate only the *recently *arrived
I came *all *cried *up *from home_


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## DAlvarez

It is idiomatically acceptable to say in Spanish:

Vendré...

-cenado/comido/desayunado
-duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado/masajeado
-descansado/dormido
-emperifollado [_all dressed up_]
-apurado
-quemado/reventado
-puesto [_high on drugs_]
-colocado [_drunk_]
- etc etc


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## Fernando

DAlvarez said:


> It is idiomatically acceptable to say in Spanish:
> 
> Vendré...
> 
> -cenado/comido/desayunado
> -duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado/masajeado
> -descansado/dormido
> -emperifollado [_all dressed up_]
> -apurado
> -quemado/reventado
> -puesto [_high on drugs_]
> -colocado [_drunk_]
> - etc etc


Agreed, except, "Vendré dormido", which could mean either:

- I will come after sleeping or I will come half-sleep, and I would say the second possibility is more often (Si quedamos el viernes, vendré dormido después de estar todo el día trabajando).

I would consider "cenado/comido/desayunado" as colloquial and the same for "masajeado".

"-duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado" are perfectly OK, in all registers and situations.

The rest are perfectly OK (and come also from reflexive verbs), but works more often as simple adjectives.

All


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## DAlvarez

Fernando said:


> Agreed, except, "Vendré dormido", which could mean either:
> 
> - I will come after sleeping or I will come half-sleep, and I would say the second possibility is more often (Si quedamos el viernes, vendré dormido después de estar todo el día trabajando).
> 
> I would consider "cenado/comido/desayunado" as colloquial and the same for "masajeado".
> 
> "-duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado" are perfectly OK, in all registers and situations.
> 
> The rest are perfectly OK (and come also from reflexive verbs), but works more often as simple adjectives.
> 
> All


Yes, it is true that some of this past participles act as adjectives in Spanish, such as _colocado, emperifollado, puesto._
As to the sample sentence that you have provided, I should think it is preferable to express it like this: _Si quedamos el viernes, vendré *medio *dormido _(= will arrive half-asleep after working all day)_, _largely because _Venir dormido_ essentially means -at least to me- to show up somewhere after getting some restful sleep, unless the person who may say _Vengo dormido_ (= I haven't had a wink of sleep) is a sleepwalker who can move around and go to places while being sound asleep without running the risk of bumping into other people or being run over by a car.


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## Richard Dick

gengo said:


> I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa."  If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.


"Vengo habiendo llorando", suena descabellado y awkard.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

@gengo dijo "habiendo llorado" lo cual no suena mal. Pero no es una elipsis.


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