# こととなる and ことになる



## Kenshiromusou

Yo, friends.
Could you help me again?
原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされて
いる。
Because I know series context, I understood the sentence, but I don't know how to use こととなる. Is the same as ようになる?
What's the difference between this phrase and [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている。] or [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされるようになるが、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている。]?
I understand if he had used ことになる, it would be "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that". That's the reason why he used *こととなる*? And, what is the difference of nuance between this されることとなる and リニューアルされた?
Thank you very much.


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## DaylightDelight

Grammatical details aside, these three don't differ much, at least in this context.
The sentence could have written with any of these, and would make perfect sense.

Now, to the details (assuming you are interested):

First there is the matter of tense.  The present tense is used in this sentence instead of the past.  This if probably done for the sense of presence, that readers can relate more closely to the event, as if readers are experiencing it as they read the sentence.

リニューアルされることと*なった*が = past, remote event

リニューアルされることと*なる*が = present, ongoing event
In this respect, された gives the most detached, matter-of-fact impression.  It sounds like a statement of a simple fact, nothing more, nothing less:

ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された* = "Kenshiro's costume was redesigned."
Between こととなる/ことになる and ようになる, the former is a little stronger on the implication of "decision":

ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる* = It is decided that Kenshiro's costume is redesigned.
ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*ようになる* = It comes to be that Kenshiro's costume is redesigned.
In this particular case, it is obvious that someone had to make the decision, so there is no big difference between them.
It makes differences in the following example:

みんな参加することになった = It was *decided* that everyone attends.
みんな参加するようになった = It came to be that everyone attends (for whatever reason).


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> Grammatical details aside, these three don't differ much, at least in this context.
> The sentence could have written with any of these, and would make perfect sense.
> 
> Now, to the details (assuming you are interested):
> 
> First there is the matter of tense.  The present tense is used in this sentence instead of the past.  This if probably done for the sense of presence, that readers can relate more closely to the event, as if readers are experiencing it as they read the sentence.
> 
> リニューアルされることと*なった*が = past, remote event
> 
> リニューアルされることと*なる*が = present, ongoing event
> In this respect, された gives the most detached, matter-of-fact impression.  It sounds like a statement of a simple fact, nothing more, nothing less:
> 
> ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された* = "Kenshiro's costume was redesigned."
> Between こととなる/ことになる and ようになる, the former is a little stronger on the implication of "decision":
> 
> ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる* = It is decided that Kenshiro's costume is redesigned.
> ケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*ようになる* = It comes to be that Kenshiro's costume is redesigned.
> In this particular case, it is obvious that someone had to make the decision, so there is no big difference between them.
> It makes differences in the following example:
> 
> みんな参加することになった = It was *decided* that everyone attends.
> みんな参加するようになった = It came to be that everyone attends (for whatever reason).


Thank you very much, my friend.
I am SUPER-interested.
So, as ことになる, *こととなる* also has the nuance of "it has been decided that" (someone decided) and stronger. 
Of course, I understand the practical result is the same thing, but there's a big nuance difference between *ことになる/こととなる* and *された*. ことになる and こととなる implies the things happened by force of another person.
Following your explanation, I suppose he used  こととなる instead こととなった to sound like historical present tense, no?
原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる*が (Simultaneously to the beginning of "Shura no Kuni" it's decided that Kenshiro's costume will be redesigned [mangaka decided]) 、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている (following this decision [made in manga by mangaka], the costume is redesigned in anime too).
I wonder if he used [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる*が] and not [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時に,原作者がケンシロウの洋服をリニューアルした] to reforce mangaka authority...?
友よ、どうもありがとうございました。


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## DaylightDelight

Kenshiromusou said:


> Following your explanation, I suppose he used こととなる instead こととなった to sound like historical present tense, no?


Exactly!  "Historical present" is the very phrase I was trying to, and failed to , recall.


Kenshiromusou said:


> I wonder if he used [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる*が] and not [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時に,原作者がケンシロウの洋服をリニューアルした] to reforce mangaka authority...?


I wouldn't read that far from this sentence.  Without another evidence to indicate otherwise, we can only assume that the mangaka, the script writer or the both of them made the decision.


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> Exactly!  "Historical present" is the very phrase I was trying to, and failed to , recall.
> 
> I wouldn't read that far from this sentence.  Without another evidence to indicate otherwise, we can only assume that the mangaka, the script writer or the both of them made the decision.


友よ、どうもありがとうございました。


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> 原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされる*こととなる*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている。



Good. This is just


> 原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、


Well done! That's very wordy form. The writer is wasting the space and time.
Or I think that こととなる is the writer's wrong word choice. The writer wanted to say されることになったが. Tense （なる・なった） is clearly wrong if the speaker is talking about the past.



> 原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアルされるようになるが、


This sounds like that you're talking about the future. されるようになる isn't good very much in this context. Your された is the best.


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> I suppose he used  こととなる instead こととなった to sound like _historical present tense_, no?



Kenshiro, I'm sorry to say that we don't say such. But I'm sure that you wanted to mean like "end up doing". Because of the Shura no kuni episode, his costume had design renewal. If so, ことになる makes sense. Both こととなる and ことになる are okay.


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> Good. This is just
> 
> Well done! That's very wordy form. The writer is wasting the space and time.
> Or I think that こととなる is the writer's wrong word choice. The writer wanted to say されることになったが. Tense （なる・なった） is clearly wrong if the speaker is talking about the past.
> 
> 
> This sounds like that you're talking about the future. されるようになる isn't good very much in this context. Your された is the best.





frequency said:


> Kenshiro, I'm sorry to say that we don't say such. But I'm sure that you wanted to mean like "end up doing". Because of the Shura no kuni episode, his costume had design renewal. If so, ことになる makes sense. Both こととなる and ことになる are okay.


Even if he had used されることになったが, it yet sounds like an redundance to my ears. I would use [原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている。], but I am not Japanese and surely don't know the nuances.
友よ、もう一度、どうもありがとうございました。


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> Even if he had used されることになったが, it yet sounds like an redundance to my ears.


You're right. For example,
一巻が出版された。
一巻が出版されることに（と）なった。

They're the almost same. But the second contains the nuance of "end up". There was/is such a plan, and the ikkan ends up so.
We have a set phrase like そういうことになった, etc, too. You may wonder why, but ことになった isn't terribly wrong and is just a way of expression, maybe.



> 原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン もリニューアルされている。


IF the whole things happened in the past, the writer should have said,
原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン*が*リニューアル*された*。

(The two things are both past ones. Which is first and second? Not mentioned especially.)


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> You're right. For example,
> 一巻が出版された。
> *一巻が出版されることに（と）なった。*
> 
> They're the almost same. But the second contains the nuance of "end up". There was/is such a plan, and the ikkan ends up so.
> We have a set phrase like そういうことになった, etc, too. You may wonder why, but ことになった isn't terribly wrong and is just a way of expression, maybe.
> 
> 
> IF the whole things happened in the past, the writer should have said,
> 原作コミックスの修羅の国編開始と同時にケンシロウの洋服がリニューアル*された*が、それにともないア二メ版も洋服のデザイン*が*リニューアル*された*。
> 
> (The two things are both past ones. Which is first and second? Not mentioned especially.)


I think I never understood *されることに（と）なった.*
If I have the phrase [ 一巻が出版されることに（と）なった], I think about the scheme "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that"; and I would translate: "It has been decided (なった)that volume will be publicated". I can't combine "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that" and past tense.
In order to translate as "end up", I should forget the  "it has been decided that; and think as:
一巻が出版されることに（と）なった] = 巻が出版されることは =　*これ（**巻が出版されること*）が　*起こった（なった*）。But, if I think so, I can't  conciliate the idea  "it has been decided that". **
友よ、もう一度、どうもありがとうございました.


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## DaylightDelight

Kenshiromusou said:


> If I have the phrase [ 一巻が出版されることに（と）なった], I think about the scheme "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that"; and I would translate: "It has been decided (なった)that volume will be publicated". I can't combine "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that" and past tense.


Japanese uses "relative tense": the tense of sub clauses are chosen in reference to the time frame of the main clause.  So となる here should be translated as "*was* going to be" instead of "will be" because it is "the future seen from the main clause". Or an infinitive clause would also work here:
It has been decided *to* publish the volume.​


Kenshiromusou said:


> In order to translate as "end up", I should forget the "it has been decided that; and think as:
> 一巻が出版されることに（と）なった] = 巻が出版されることは =　*これ（**巻が出版されること*）が　*起こった（なった*）。But, if I think so, I can't conciliate the idea "it has been decided that". **


No need to get confused.  Why "これが起こった"? Because someone has decided to:
"It was decided, so it ended up being so." / "It was decided, and as a result it was done."​


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> If I have the phrase [ 一巻が出版されることに（と）なった], I think about the scheme "it has been decided that; it has been arranged so that"



That is される（passive)＋ことになった. So you can use する, too. する（される）＋ことになった.

You're saying that something (and/or you) has ended up doing so in the end/as a result. If there was any decision or plan? I don't know, you might have decided so yourself. But anyway you're going to do so.
The ikkan is going to be published/will be published, yes as you said.
If I am asked what ことになった is, I'd say it's just "be going to".



> 一巻が出版されることに（と）なった] = 巻が出版されることは =　*これ（**巻が出版されること*）が　*起こった（なった*）。


Yes, I agree with you.
You know, we just say so. You're working for 集英社. You say, 「出版するんだ。」 and 「出版することになった。」 are the same when you say about your will or action in the future, but the second has the nuance of "end up", "in the end".

Note that なった in ことになった can denote the past, too. In your example, we can say
原作でケンシロウの服がリニューアルされたので、アニメ版でもリニューアルされることになった。
(As long as the context says that the renewal happened in the past.)


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## frequency

kenshiro,
For example, you'd say 「一巻が出版されることになった。」

「一巻が出版される。」 can be or may be a clause. (But I'm afraid if kt says "that's not a clause!") But ことになった isn't a clause or subclause at all.


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> Japanese uses "relative tense": the tense of sub clauses are chosen in reference to the time frame of the main clause.  So となる here should be translated as "*was* going to be" instead of "will be" because it is "the future seen from the main clause". Or an infinitive clause would also work here:
> It has been decided *to* publish the volume.​
> 
> No need to get confused.  Why "これが起こった"? Because someone has decided to:
> "It was decided, so it ended up being so." / "It was decided, and as a result it was done."​





frequency said:


> That is される（passive)＋ことになった. So you can use する, too. する（される）＋ことになった.
> 
> You're saying that something (and/or you) has ended up doing so in the end/as a result. If there was any decision or plan? I don't know, you might have decided so yourself. But anyway you're going to do so.
> The ikkan is going to be published/will be published, yes as you said.
> If I am asked what ことになった is, I'd say it's just "be going to".
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree with you.
> You know, we just say so. You're working for 集英社. You say, 「出版するんだ。」 and 「出版することになった。」 are the same when you say about your will or action in the future, but the second has the nuance of "end up", "in the end".
> 
> Note that なった in ことになった can denote the past, too. In your example, we can say
> 原作でケンシロウの服がリニューアルされたので、アニメ版でもリニューアルされることになった。
> (As long as the context says that the renewal happened in the past.)





frequency said:


> kenshiro,
> For example, you'd say 「一巻が出版されることになった。」
> 
> 「一巻が出版される。」 can be or may be a clause. (But I'm afraid if kt says "that's not a clause!") But ことになった isn't a clause or subclause at all.



友達よ、どうもありがとうございました。


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