# Etymology of هوا (air)



## kamyR

Hello 
I am curious about etymology of this word because different sources have different etymologies for it.
First I checked "wiktionary.org" for it a few months back and it said that it is from middle Persian hu-way (good current) and Arabic  borrowed it from Iranian.
MacKenzie dictionary says the word for air in Pahlavi is way (way [w'd = Av. wayu- I P wyw] air, atmosphere•) and with this I think the explanation above would be plausible.
But now the wiktionary.com says it is in fact Arabic and from the root _ه و ي_‎ (h-w-y), meaning a hole or hollow and the Persian word is borrowed.
In "www.nisanyansozluk.com" it is said that the word is of Persian origin (~ Fa hawā هوا hava, yel, esinti, melodi. *Note:* Ar _hawāˀ_ "heves, boş arzu" Farsça kaynaklı olmalıdır.).
And in "*An Etymological Dictionary of Persian, English and other Indo-European Languages, *by Dr. Ali Nourai" it is said that هوا(air) is derived  from PIE root "kwes" and it is a cognate of شش(lung) and if this is the case please explain how it is possible.
Thanks in advance


----------



## momai

هواء in Arabic dictionaries is defined as emptiness (see also this verse for example: Surah Ibrahim [14:43] ).


----------



## InfiniteDays

Adding an H in front of words is a normal thing that happened in the transition from middle Persian:

osh -> Hush    ech -> hich

The academy of Persian language has made new compound words using هوا:

Havapeyma instead of tayyara طیاره (I'm not sure if this the word that is used in Arabic , but it's the word that was used in Persian until 50 years ago)

havanavard instead of Astronaut (آسترونات)

It could be Arabic, but 3 out of the 4 sources you listed said it's Persian. I couldn't find any credible source that stated whether Arabic borrowed it or not. Maybe they look similar accidentally, or maybe it's Persian pronunciation is influenced by Arabic.


----------



## kamyR

momai said:


> هواء in Arabic dictionaries is defined as emptiness (see also this verse for example: Surah Ibrahim [14:43] ).


Thanks. Do you know how long has this word been used with the meaning "air". Because based on the things I've learned the word *جَوّ*  is used when speaking about the air (or at least weather) but I can be mistaking of course.


----------



## kamyR

InfiniteDays said:


> Adding an H in front of words is a normal thing that happened in the transition from middle Persian:
> 
> osh -> Hush    ech -> hich
> 
> The academy of Persian language has made new compound words using هوا:
> 
> Havapeyma instead of tayyara طیاره (I'm not sure if this the word that is used in Arabic , but it's the word that was used in Persian until 50 years ago)
> 
> havanavard instead of Astronaut (آسترونات)
> 
> It could be Arabic, but 3 out of the 4 sources you listed said it's Persian. I couldn't find any credible source that stated whether Arabic borrowed it or not. Maybe they look similar accidentally, or maybe it's Persian pronunciation is influenced by Arabic.


That's my guess too but I want to be sure


----------



## PersoLatin

According to MacKenzie Pahalavi dictionary:
"_way_" = air, atmosphere
"_andarwāy"_ = air, atmosphere and  "_andarwāyig"_ = atmospheric, of the air.
_"wāy" = _bird
_"wāyidan" = _blow (of wind)

The /w's/ at the start of some have changed to /b/ in NP e.g. "_wāyidan" _to bād/wind

I believe these are cognates with 'wind', 'vent' etc.


----------



## momai

kamyR said:


> Thanks. Do you know how long has this word been used with the meaning "air". Because based on the things I've learned the word *جَوّ*  is used when speaking about the air (or at least weather) but I can be mistaking of course.


I can't tell you for sure when it started to obtain this meaning, but it is already mentioned in Lisaan Al-Arab dictionary by Ibn Manzur who lived during the Abbasid time (which however is the time with the most number of Persian words entering the Arabic language). Anyway the Arabic explanation (which could be completely wrong) for this word is that it is from (h-w-y) to fall -> the space that falls(exists) between two things but also love (just think of _fall in love_).
جو on the other hand means the inside -> between sky and earth


----------



## kamyR

momai said:


> I can't tell you for sure when it started to obtain this meaning, but it is already mentioned in Lisaan Al-Arab dictionary by Ibn Manzur who lived during the Abbasid time (which however is the time with the most number of Persian words entering the Arabic language). Anyway the Arabic explanation (which could be completely wrong) for this word is that it is from (h-w-y) to fall -> the space that falls(exists) between two things but also love (just think of _fall in love_).
> جو on the other hand means the inside -> between sky and earth


Thank you and thanks to all for responding


----------



## Abu Rashid

The root also exists in Hebrew הָוָה although with the meaning of fall, be, exist, happen. But that's not so different from the Arabic meaning. Seems more likely to be Semitic than Indo-Iranian.


----------



## Aliph

According to the *Arabic Etymological Dictionary of Andras Rajki (2005)*
Hawa has a semitical root h-w-y

*hawa: air, atmosphere*
[Sem h-w-y, Amh hewa] Aze hava, Hin hava, Ind hawa, Kyr awa, Per hawa, Swa hewa, Taj havo, Tat khava, Tur hava


----------



## Aaa003

momai said:


> I can't tell you for sure when it started to obtain this meaning, but it is already mentioned in Lisaan Al-Arab dictionary by Ibn Manzur who lived during the Abbasid time (which however is the time with the most number of Persian words entering the Arabic language). Anyway the Arabic explanation (which could be completely wrong) for this word is that it is from (h-w-y) to fall -> the space that falls(exists) between two things but also love (just think of _fall in love_).
> جو on the other hand means the inside -> between sky and earth



So what you are saying here is that the original meaning of this word meant “emptiness” or “void” but in modern day the word has completely changed to mean “air”? I’ve seen dictionaries that say it can mean either air or void depending on the context.


----------



## Awwal12

Abu Rashid said:


> The root also exists in Hebrew הָוָה although with the meaning of fall, be, exist, happen. But that's not so different from the Arabic meaning. Seems more likely to be Semitic than Indo-Iranian.


It seems the only question is if  هواء really comes from h-w-y or it's a simple coincidence of sorts and it's a loan.


----------



## Abaye

Abu Rashid said:


> The root also exists in Hebrew הָוָה although with the meaning of fall, be, exist, happen. But that's not so different from the Arabic meaning. Seems more likely to be Semitic than Indo-Iranian.


This was indeed opinionated by past linguists, but not sure it's still fashionable.





H1933 - hava' - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)


----------



## kamyR

the Kurdish Wiktionary page hewa - Wîkîferheng it says it is from _hu-_ (good) and  _*-veyav_ (wind) but it does not have sources.


----------



## Aaa003

momai said:


> هواء in Arabic dictionaries is defined as emptiness (see also this verse for example: Surah Ibrahim [14:43] ).


By saying this, are you suggesting that “emptiness” may have been the original meaning of the word before it evolved, Or are you only using this definition as an example of how it relates to air as a secondary definition?


----------



## Aaa003

Aaa003 said:


> By saying this, are you suggesting that “emptiness” may have been the original meaning of the word before it evolved, Or are you only using this definition as an example of how it relates to air as a secondary definition?





momai said:


> I can't tell you for sure when it started to obtain this meaning, but it is already mentioned in Lisaan Al-Arab dictionary by Ibn Manzur who lived during the Abbasid time (which however is the time with the most number of Persian words entering the Arabic language). Anyway the Arabic explanation (which could be completely wrong) for this word is that it is from (h-w-y) to fall -> the space that falls(exists) between two things but also love (just think of _fall in love_).
> جو on the other hand means the inside -> between sky and earth


Sorry, last question, what is the source the arabic explanation for this word?


----------



## rarabara

the word appearing in the topic is clearly accepted/used in Kurdish as same as it stands (and means "air")
not sure for Turkish, because it seems both Great and little wovel harmonies are being satisfied but further analysis migh be available.


----------



## Ectab

In Arabic, I sense that the root h-w-y means to fall (from a higher place into a lower one) as in falling into a hole or from a cliff...etc. Thus falling into a hollow space, as opposite to s-q-T which means something falling in a general sense, like a ball falling after having been thrown, or w-q-3 means to fall down (of someone or something standing).

So I -think- the following semantical development has occurred:

h-w-y: to fall (into hollow space) > to be hollow, to be empty, emptiness, void > air

Initially hawaa' was an adjective in Classical Arabic that meant "hollow, empty" as it was used in the Quran. And as a noun it meant "void, emptiness" which was used to mean "air" as well because the ancients thought void and air were the same thing.


----------



## rarabara

Ectab said:


> Initially hawaa' was an adjective in Classical Arabic that meant "hollow, empty" as it was used in the Quran. And as a noun it meant "void, emptiness" which was used to mean "air" as well because the ancients thought void and air were the same thing.


is this real?
because "air" is definitely not the "empty" or "void".
meanwhile, I am unable to even imagine how the "voidness" or "emptiness" was. 
Since I cannot imagine,I doubt that there would be such a thing.
(therefore,it does not seem that Quran states in such a way or maybe I should work something better)


----------



## Ectab

rarabara said:


> is this real?
> because "air" is definitely not the "empty" or "void".
> meanwhile, I am unable to even imagine how the "voidness" or "emptiness" was.
> Since I cannot imagine,I doubt that there would be such a thing.
> (therefore,it does not seem that Quran states in such a way or maybe I should work something better)


Ancient people didn't know that air consists of tiny atoms, so they believed air is void because they didn't see air (being invisible). So they just assumed that air and void were the same thing. What else would ancient people assume was void?

Quran states: أفئدتهم *هواء* ('af'idatuhum *hawaa'*) meaning "their hearts are *empty\hollow*".


----------



## rarabara

Ectab said:


> Quran states: أفئدتهم *هواء* ('af'idatuhum *hawaa'*) meaning "their hearts are *empty\hollow*".


I presume we interpret these particularities of wording differently.
But I think I can say that the meaning you obtained by your/our own understanding and the exact meaning may be different and multidimensional.



> Ancient people didn't know that air consists of tiny atoms, so they believed air is void because they didn't see air (being invisible). So they just assumed that air and void were the same thing. What else would ancient people assume was void?



(i.e. even though ancient people know in such a way, the meaning of the particular wording you cited from Quran may be different and there may be some other meanings)

what is more ,I recommend you consider this:

*هواء هوس*

may I ask; to whom do you call / mark by "ancient people"?

this assertion might be incorect.the assertion is:



> "ancient people" did not know that remarked thing


----------



## Ectab

rarabara said:


> may I ask; to whom do you call / mark by "ancient people"?


the Ancient Arabs who first used this word (hawaa') with this meaning (empty, void > air). Could be medieval or pre-medieval.



rarabara said:


> (i.e. even though ancient people know in such a way, the meaning of the particular wording you cited from Quran may be different and there may be some other meanings)


I don't understand what you mean.


rarabara said:


> But I think I can say that the meaning you obtained by your/our own understanding and the exact meaning may be different and multidimensional.


Are you saying that the word هواء had a different meaning from what modern Arab interpreters of the Quran use, which is "empty"?
What would that be?


----------



## rarabara

Ectab said:


> the Ancient Arabs who first used this word (hawaa') with this meaning (empty, void > air). Could be medieval or pre-medieval.



which "ancient" Arabs ,for instance prior to islam or latter?
this is important because you refer to Quran.


Ectab said:


> Are you saying that the word هواء had a different meaning from what modern Arab interpreters of the Quran use, which is "empty"?


not only that thing, but also the incorrectness of assertion and multidimensionality (maybe this word better explains the case: "polysemy" (for "multidimensionality"))




> What would that be?



I do not prefer making clear conclusion , but can clearly point out that the meaning of this word might be  polysemic (multidimensional) (i.e. it does not have (to have) just one meaning)


----------



## Ectab

rarabara said:


> which "ancient" Arabs ,for instance prior to islam or latter?


Prior to Islam ,of course. As I stated: "the Arabs who first used this word", not all Arabic words that has a proto-Semitic etymology for their roots were formed in proto-Semitic, many has been formed by the Arabs using patterns from PS or invented, so they don't have cognates in other Semitic languages. Such words had been forming since Arabic had separated from PS. And since hawaa' was used in the Quran for "void, empty, hollow", then it must have been used by the Arabs before the Quran.


rarabara said:


> not only that thing, but also the incorrectness of assertion and multidimensionality (maybe this word better explains the case: "polysemy" (for "multidimensionality"))


Again, what would that word be?


----------



## rarabara

Ectab said:


> Again, what would that word be?


as it expressed I do not prefer to make a clear and a definite conclusion. (For me, it would be meaningless or worthless to make a definite and clear conclusion before spending significant effort in learning Arabic language.(I know some Arabic,but not good really and I did not spend that significant effort) But since Quran is in Arabic and Allah never lies (i.e. Allah does not say anything other than truths),it would be also wrong to allege something which was different than the meaning what verse says. You may prefer to say "I know or understand or interpret the relevant verse as 'this one' " but; "that one does not have to be so these days" ,I say(,for the relevant verse.) )


----------



## raamez

rarabara said:


> as it expressed I do not prefer to make a clear and a definite conclusion. (For me, it would be meaningless or worthless to make a definite and clear conclusion before spending significant effort in learning Arabic language.(I know some Arabic,but not good really and I did not spend that significant effort) But since Quran is in Arabic and Allah never lies (i.e. Allah does not say anything other than truths),it would be also wrong to allege something which was different than the verse says. You may prefer to say "I know or understand or interpret the relevant verse as "this one" but; "that one does not have to be so these days" ,I say(,for the relevant expression.) )


Sorry but this is ridiculous. There are of coarse many controversial verses in the Quran whose meanings are still very debated but this one seems crystal clear to me أفئدتهم هواء simply means their hearts are empty.


----------



## rarabara

raamez said:


> but this one seems crystal clear to me أفئدتهم هواء simply means their hearts are empty.


well, be sure,  in case you say or interpret in this way, some ready atheists will prefer to say :



> Don't you see that blood was flowing in my heart (i.e. it is not empty)


and therefore they would allege the incorrectness of verse ,which is incorrect allegation in islam


----------



## Ectab

rarabara said:


> and therefore they would allege the incorrectness of verse ,which is incorrect allegation in islam


That would be funny, because "their hearts are empty" is metaphoric. Very common in Quran and rhetorical speech is to use metaphors.


----------



## rarabara

Ectab said:


> That would be funny, because "their hearts are empty" is metaphoric. Very common in Quran and rhetorical speech is to use metaphors.


I am not sure we indicate/understand the same thing with "metaphor" ,because I am sure that not all of languages provide equivalent meanings from one language to another language.
to my knowledge, if you are talking a "metaphoric meaning"  for a word, this will mean that you do not talk about its "exact meaning" or "real/basic meaning"
In Turkish, when you talk about mataphoric meaning of a word, that word should lose its exact meaning which firstly recalled.
here, I mean if the verse "metaphorically" says "empty" ,it should be something else and not the "emptiness" itself.
some other contexts in this regard: "kinaye" , "tariz"  are available in  Turkish.


----------

