# а то пока



## englishman

"А то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала."

What does "А то пока" mean here ? Is it simply "And now" ?

"And now we'll go all the way to the city from our little village, and then on to the station" ?


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> "А то пока из нашего посёлка до города дое*д*ем, а там ещё до вокзала."
> 
> What does "А то пока" mean here ? Is it simply "And now" ?



No. 
Пока means 'while'.

А то - construction meaning more or less 'because', but much more emotionally coloured.
Дай попить, а то умираю от жажды.
Иди отсюда, а то врежу.
Не подскажете, как пройти в библиотеку, а то я, кажется, совсем заблудился.

All together it means that it will take a lot of time to reach the town and then the railway station, and that is why... (refering to what was said before), such as: 

Ну, нам пора, а то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала - можем опоздать на поезд.


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## gvozd

This means that it will take a lot of time to reach the town.


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## LilianaB

No, It doesn't. It means: It will take time to get to the town from our village, not to mention how long it will take to get to the station after that. I do not think this phrase can be translated on its own.


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## Explorer41

Liliana, it does. The amount of time is not mentioned in words, of course, but we use the phrase in the very meaning *Maroseika* and *gvozd* explained. The fact, that the amount of time is big, is always presumed when we say this phrase.


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## LilianaB

It was the answer to post !.


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## morzh

LilianaB said:


> It was the answer to post !.



I asked this once before in a different thread, and wanted to remind: when answering a post that does not immediately precede your answer, (and preferably every post), try to quote what you answering - this will avoid confusion.
I also thought you were contradicting Gvozd.


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## LilianaB

Sorry, I'll try.


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## englishman

Maroseika said:


> No.
> Пока means 'while'.
> ...
> All together it means that it will take a lot of time to reach the town and then the railway station, and that is why... (refering to what was said before), such as:
> 
> Ну, нам пора, а то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала - можем опоздать на поезд.



OK. I think I understand this now. "а то пока" is not any kind of set expression. It is merely the composition of the three words with their literal meaning. So the translation is:

"And because it will take a while to get to town from our little village, and then we've still got to get to the station .."

I was unaware of the "because" meaning of "то" - is this a colloquial usage ?


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## Explorer41

I'd put it more precisely. "а то" means rather "in other circumstances", "or else". The "other circumstances" often go on unnamed.
For example, "дай попить, а то умираю от жажды" may be put as "если не дашь мне попить, я умру от жажды".

Yes, this usage of "а то" is colloquial or, rather, "emotionally coloured", as Maroseika said. By the way, the usage of "пока" in that phrase is even more colloquial (most likely, the phrasal stress falls on this word).


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## morzh

It is sometimes hard to define the exact meaning of "a to".

- Стерва твоя баба, однако. - Your woman's a real bitch, you know.
- А то я не знаю. - Tell me about it. (lit. - Like I don't know)

- Мне кажется, она тебе понравилась. - Seems to me, you liked her.
- А то! - You betcha! (Of course!)

Here's a link I found

http://ru.thefreedictionary.com/а+то - has some of the meanings.


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## englishman

Explorer41 said:


> I'd put it more precisely. "а то" means rather "in other circumstances", "or else". The "other circumstances" often go on unnamed.
> For example, "дай попить, а то умираю от жажды" may be put as "если не дашь мне попить, я умру от жажды".



"or else" works as a translation in your first sentence, I think, but I can't see how it can be used that way in the sentence that I posted.


> "Yes, this usage of "а то" is colloquial or, rather, "emotionally coloured", as Maroseika said."


I'm not sure what she meant by that. In what sense is it "emotionally coloured".


> "By the way, the usage of "пока" in that phrase is even more colloquial (most likely, the phrasal stress falls on this word).


Can I have a sentence like so:

"пока мы играем" = "we will be playing for a long while"

i.e. can I prepend "пока" to an arbitrary sentence to indicate that the action will be taking place over an extended period of time ?


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## englishman

morzh said:


> It is sometimes hard to define the exact meaning of "a to".
> 
> - Стерва твоя баба, однако. - Your woman's a real bitch, you know.
> - А то я не знаю. - Tell me about it. (lit. - Like I don't know)
> 
> - Мне кажется, она тебе понравилась. - Seems to me, you liked her.
> - А то! - You betcha! (Of course!)



Aren't those very different meanings to the one in the my original sentence, or is there some connection ? It's not clear to me.


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## ne_parsya

englishman said:


> Aren't those very different meanings to the one in the my original sentence, or is there some connection ? It's not clear to me.



You cannot use "а то" at the beginning of your sentence, it would have no sense, this выражение express causality:

*не трогай, а то ты палец обожжёшь - don't touch, or you'll burn your finger

"а то пока" - for now we'll just get to the city from our village, and then we'll reach the station later*


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## Explorer41

englishman said:


> "or else" works as a translation in your first sentence, I think, but I can't see how it can be used that way in the sentence that I posted.


Well, let's put it so: the talker imagines the situation of going (that's how this "in other circumstances" works here; in *morzh*'s cases it works in other ways) and describes it, saying "пока будем добираться до города..." For him, the situation is imaginary, he describes it for the sake of argument; and he concludes, that it will take long if they will go to the city, and because of that, some decision should be taken. This is hard to translate (impossible with my command of English), and *ne_parsya*'s translation unfortunately does not work.


englishman said:


> I'm not sure what she meant by that. In what sense is it "emotionally coloured".


In no particular sense. Just it's more free, more prone to emotions of any kind.


englishman said:


> Can I have a sentence like so:
> 
> "пока мы играем" = "we will be playing for a long while"


No (well, maybe in very specific circumstances). The usage in question of "пока" implies getting a result or finishing an operation. For example: "пока́ мы пообедаем..."


englishman said:


> i.e. can I prepend "пока" to an arbitrary sentence to indicate that the action will be taking place over an extended period of time ?


Arbitrary - not. But it's a common colloquial pattern, and I should note its pronunciation: the phrasal stress is on the word "пока".


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## LilianaB

Hi, Englishman. I do not think it can be translated as because. I do not think it can be translated at all outside of a particular construction. Reply to 9. Even in this sentence it does not mean because. If I were to choose one word close to it, it would be until. _Until we get a rest it will be too late to go to the movies_. I think it could work in a construction like that.


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## LilianaB

ne_parsya said:


> You cannot use "а то" at the beginning of your sentence, it would have no sense, this выражение express causality:
> 
> *не трогай, а то ты палец обожжёшь - don't touch, or you'll burn your finger
> 
> "а то пока" - for now we'll just get to the city from our village, and then we'll reach the station later*



You can use this expression at the beginning of a sentence, just in the right context, mostly in a very casual dialogue. It does not mean _for now we will just go to the city_.


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> OK. I think I understand this now. "а то пока" is not any kind of set expression. It is merely the composition of the three words with their literal meaning. So the translation is:
> 
> "And because it will take a while to get to town from our little village, and then we've still got to get to the station .."
> 
> I was unaware of the "because" meaning of "то" - is this a colloquial usage ?



No, I did not mean anything of this really should be translated as 'because'. Just the whole construction *а то* means something like that. Or more precesily, it introduces an explanation of the reason. So you can use 'because', 'since', 'as' or whatever fits the context.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> It is sometimes hard to define the exact meaning of "a to".
> 
> - Стерва твоя баба, однако. - Your woman's a real bitch, you know.
> - А то я не знаю. - Tell me about it. (lit. - Like I don't know)
> 
> - Мне кажется, она тебе понравилась. - Seems to me, you liked her.
> - А то! - You betcha! (Of course!)



I'm afraid this is quite another meaning of *а то*, having nothing to do with the one we are discussing.


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> Can I have a sentence like so:
> 
> "пока мы играем" = "we will be playing for a long while"
> 
> i.e. can I prepend "пока" to an arbitrary sentence to indicate that the action will be taking place over an extended period of time ?



No. The very phrase can be used at least in three ways:

Пока мы играем. A потом пойдем обедать. (So far we are playing, and then...)
Пока мы играем, мама готовит обед. (While we are playing...)
Пока мы играем, мы не деремся. (As long as we are playing...)


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## Explorer41

Maroseika said:


> I'm afraid this is quite another meaning of *а то*, having nothing to do with the one we are discussing.


Why? For me, it's all the same. By the way, Ozhegov's dictionary lists only two meanings of "а то", and all the examples I have seen here fit to the first of them. They are:

*А то* - 1) _союз_, в противном случае, иначе. _Спеши, а то опоздаешь_; 2) в действительности же, а на самом деле. _Если бы было так, а то всё наоборот._

Of course, Ozhegov's examples are simplified, but the same meaning is preserved in more difficult cases, when the most of what one wants to say is silenced.

Well, there is also this:

*А то!* (*а то как же!*) (прост.) - в ответной реплике выражает: 1) уверенное согласие, подтверждение. _Замёрз? - А то как же! Мороз на дворе;_ 2) ироническое согласие, отрицание: _Он пойдёт? - А то! Дожидайся!_

, but it's not very different. Anyway, we see now what this phrase smells like.



Maroseika said:


> No. The very phrase can be used at least in three ways:
> 
> Пока мы играем. A потом пойдем обедать. (So far we are playing, and then...)
> Пока мы играем, мама готовит обед. (While we are playing...)
> Пока мы играем, мы не деремся. (As long as we are playing...)


Compare:
- Он нам поможет.
- Как же! Пока́ он закончит играть в свою стрелялку!


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## Maroseika

Explorer41 said:


> Why? For me, it's all the same.
> *А то* - 1) _союз_, в противном случае, иначе.
> 
> *А то!* (*а то как же!*) (прост.) - в ответной реплике выражает: 1) уверенное согласие,  подтверждение.



В противном случае, иначе and уверенное согласие, подтверждение are all the same? I'm afraid I can't agree.


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## Explorer41

Maroseika said:


> В противном случае, иначе and уверенное согласие, подтверждение are all the same? I'm afraid I can't agree.


Of course!  The results are different, but the cause is the same. A speaker imagines a different situation ("иначе"), and depending on that builds his/her conclusions. For me, the more complete variant of "а то!" in the meaning "уверенное согласие" is "а то нет!": "Замёрз? - А то нет!". Yet another paraphrase: "можно подумать, нет!". That is, a speaker imagines the situation in different circumstances and concludes, that it would be an absurd.


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## Maroseika

Frankly speaking, I cannot understand such juxtaposition. Even in the full it is quite different for me from another meaning:

- Пусти переночевать, а то есть хочется (иначе - what? and where is an absurd?).
- Тебе есть хочется? 
- А то нет!

Anyway, this is how we are feeling this contsruction.


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## Explorer41

Maroseika said:


> - Пусти переночевать, а то есть хочется (иначе - what? and where is an absurd?).


Ну, парафраза здесь не помогает (потому что возможные парафразы звучат не по-русски), но значение "иначе" здесь присутствует: если не пустишь переночевать, то [я тебе скажу, что] мне хочется есть. Абсурда нет, это другой случай, говорящий попросту приводит аргумент, цель которого -- убедить слушателя впустить его в дом. Коли не пустишь -- так мне есть хочется!


Maroseika said:


> - Тебе есть хочется?
> - А то нет!


Эту фразу я понимаю так: отвечающий заявляет, что само допущение, будто ему не хочется есть, выглядит абсурдом. "Иначе" здесь работает в качестве "поставщика допущения" -- т.е. имеется в виду "иначе по отношению к спрошенному, т.е. если есть не хочется".


Maroseika said:


> Anyway, this is how we are feeling this contsruction.


Да, конечно!  И могу добавить, что утверждение "это всё одно и то же" является именно констатацией моего чувства.


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## Maroseika

Explorer41 said:


> Ну, парафраза здесь не помогает (потому что возможные парафразы звучат не по-русски), но значение "иначе" здесь присутствует: если не пустишь переночевать, то [я тебе скажу, что] мне хочется есть.


Ну, если юмор затемняет суть, пусть будет серьезная фраза: Дай каши, а то есть очень хочется. 
Разве не очевидно, что здесь просто объяснение (с оттенком оправдания), почему надо дать каши? Потому что есть хочется.



> это другой случай


О чем и речь.


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## Explorer41

maroseika said:


> Ну, если юмор затемняет суть, пусть будет серьезная фраза: Дай каши, а то есть очень хочется.
> Разве не очевидно, что здесь просто объяснение (с оттенком оправдания), почему надо дать каши? Потому что есть хочется.


Очевидно. Но корни этого значения -- точно те же, что и в случае с ответным восклицанием "а то!". И мой разбор точно тот же, что и в предыдущем примере. Лично моё восприятие фразы нисколько не противоречит тому разбору, наоборот -- подтверждает его. Кстати, и оправдание именно оттуда и появляется: "если, допустим, ты мне не даёшь каши, то мне очень хочется есть! Так что дай, будь другом".

Ps: а кстати, как раз только сейчас заметил возможную юмористичность той фразы. Нет, я её воспринял совершенно серьёзно. И совершенно серьёзно её разбирал, без всякой аппеляции к юмору. Если честно, то по-настоящему та фраза не кажется мне юмористичной и сейчас.


maroseika said:


> это другой случай
> 
> 
> 
> О чем и речь.
Click to expand...

Ну да, конечно. В чём-то другой и в чём-то такой же. Как это часто бывает. Впрочем, это уже философистика пошла, я думаю, наши позиции выяснены


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## englishman

Maroseika said:


> No. The very phrase can be used at least in three ways:
> 
> Пока мы играем. A потом пойдем обедать. (So far we are playing, and then...)
> Пока мы играем, мама готовит обед. (While we are playing...)
> Пока мы играем, мы не деремся. (As long as we are playing...)



OK. I'm afraid that I don't understand this at all then. What part of my original sentence provides the sense that the journey will take a long time, and which part of it provides the sense of "because" ?

Could you give a couple of complete example sentences, please ?


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## morzh

englishman said:


> OK. I'm afraid that I don't understand this at all then. What part of my original sentence provides the sense that the journey will take a long time, and which part of it provides the sense of "because" ?
> 
> Could you give a couple of complete example sentences, please ?



"А то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала." - the sense of a long journey is provided by 1)voice inflection, 2) the absence of the action happening while the action with "пока" lasts.

If you say "пока (еще) мъi сделаем что-то" and do not follow it with something else, related to this, what is happening during this "пока", this will mean that the "пока" is rather long.

Пока он придет, пока разденется, пока с хозяйкой в прихожей побеседует. - It will take a while for him to come, to take his coat off, to greet the lady of the house in the lobby.
Пока еще школу закончит. - there's some time lefty before he's out of school.

"Пока" is pronounce on a rising voice: по-ка^


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> OK. I'm afraid that I don't understand this at all then. What part of my original sentence provides the sense that the journey will take a long time, and which part of it provides the sense of "because" ?
> 
> Could you give a couple of complete example sentences, please ?



A long time is expressed by пока (with rising intonation, like Morsh pointed), the sense of 'because' - by а то:

[Well, it's time for us to leave], because it will take a lot of time to get to the town from our settlement.


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> A long time is expressed by пока (with rising intonation, like Morsh pointed), the sense of 'because' - by а то:
> 
> [Well, it's time for us to leave], because it will take a lot of time to get to the town from our settlement.




Also, "because / а то" is present probably due to something that was said before, which is what "а то пока" justifies/explaines.
For examples:

Надо завтра пораньше въiехать. А то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала. - We need to start early tomorrow. Because it will take a while..............

If nothing precedes that needs to be justified, then "a то" won't be there.

- Сколько времени нам понадобится, чтобъi успеть на поезд?
- Ну, считай: пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала - вот тебе и три часа.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> Also, "because / а то" is present probably due to something that was said before, which is what "а то пока" justifies/explaines.



Yes, and this has been said already in the post # 2.


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## morzh

Just to reiterate, so it would come together with the other part. "time to gather stones".


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## englishman

morzh said:


> Also, "because / а то" is present probably due to something that was said before, which is what "а то пока" justifies/explaines.
> For examples:
> 
> Надо завтра пораньше въiехать. А то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала. - We need to start early tomorrow. Because it will take a while..............
> 
> If nothing precedes that needs to be justified, then "a то" won't be there.


Thanks. That makes it pretty clear. I'm not sure why I was confused about this yesterday.

However, I'm still not sure how I would use "пока" in a standalone sentence. Does it only work with a perfective verb ?

"пока мы сыграем" = "It will be a long time until we have finished playing" ?

Does that work ?


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> I'm still not sure how I would use "пока" in a standalone sentence.
> 
> "пока мы сыграем" = "It will be a long time until we have finished playing" ?
> 
> Does that work ?



Yes, it does, but still not alone: Пока-а мы сыграем, - ты еще и в магазин сбегать успеешь.

But: Согрей-ка нам чайку, пока мы сыграем.



> Does it only work with a perfective verb ?


In this sense - yes, I think so.


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## Explorer41

Maroseika said:


> Yes, it does, but still not alone: Пока-а мы сыграем, - ты еще и в магазин сбегать успеешь.


  Then it looks like nothing works alone. *morzh*'s examples from #29 are good.


englishman said:


> However, I'm still not sure how I would use "пока" in a standalone sentence. Does it only work with a perfective verb ?


Mostly yes. This use of "пока" implies that the action will be finished sometime, and to express such actions, most likely we shall use perfective verbs, as in *morzh*'s examples (and as in your own example you presented in the first post). Still I don't see anything wrong with a phrase like this: "ой, пока́ он там со всеми прощается, я думаю, тебе сейчас можно и новости по радио послушать". In this case the "finishness" is not expressed in the verb (it is imperfective), but it is well implied (we know for sure that sometime he will finish bidding goodbye, and we have in mind exactly his finishing). Of course, one could use a perfective verb ("попрощается") as well, but it sounds too long and is not needed in this case.

Overall, I should say that this use of "пока" is very figurative, picturesque and emotional, and therefore restricted - it's not good in just any context.


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## antimatter

Maroseika said:


> No.
> Пока means 'while'.
> 
> А то - construction meaning more or less 'because', but much more emotionally coloured.
> Дай попить, а то умираю от жажды.
> Иди отсюда, а то врежу.
> Не подскажете, как пройти в библиотеку, а то я, кажется, совсем заблудился.
> 
> All together it means that it will take a lot of time to reach the town and then the railway station, and that is why... (refering to what was said before), such as:
> 
> Ну, нам пора, а то пока из нашего посёлка до города доедем, а там ещё до вокзала - можем опоздать на поезд.



В похожем смысле, выражение "а не то" значит что-то "otherwise, or else"?
Ну, я не понимаю, почему не говорим вместо
_Иди отсюда, а то врежу. _
*Иди отсюда, а не то врежу*  ?


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## Explorer41

antimatter said:


> В похожем смысле, выражение "а не то" значит что-то "otherwise, or else"?
> Ну, я не понимаю, почему не говорим вместо
> _Иди отсюда, а то врежу. _
> *Иди отсюда, а не то врежу*  ?


Можно говорить оба. Эти варианты совершенно равноправны.

ЗЫ: разумеется, "равноправны" не означает "равнозначны". Разница есть, но тонкая.


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## morzh

Explorer41 said:


> Можно говорить оба. Эти варианты совершенно равноправны.



"Не" в русском в некоторъiх случаях несет чисто стилистическую нагрузку, не неся смьiсловой.

"(А) Не то" = А то. (обратное неверно)

- Тикай отсюда,* а не то* (*=* *а то*) тятька поймает и накостьiляет по шее. (замена возможна)

Обратное

- Тьi не знаешь ответа? *А то* *(<> а не то*) я никак не могу решить. (замена невозможна).

"Не" так же не имеет смьiсловой нагрузки в вопросах типа:

*- Чаю не хочешь? = Чаю хочешь?
*
"Не" так же может заменяться на "да" в отрицательньiх утверждениях (хоят здесь еле уловимое изменение настроения имеет место):

- Так тьi не любишь кубистов?
- Да, не люблю  = Нет, не люблю. (This is especially hard for English speakers, as the negative statement HAS to start from NO, and not from Yes - and the opposite is hard to non-English speakers to grasp; a typical Russian mistake: "Yes, I don't want it").


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## englishman

Maroseika said:


> Yes, it does, but still not alone: Пока-а мы сыграем, - ты еще и в магазин сбегать успеешь.



Are you not mixing up different uses of пока ? In the sentence above, surely this is identical to the English "while":

"While we are playing, you will have time to run to the shop" ?

This seems to be a completely different usage to that in my original query, which doesn't have an easy word-for-word translation into English. 



> But: Согрей-ка нам чайку, пока мы сыграем.



I'm not clear how you are distinguishing this sentence from the one you gave immediately before. It will be translated using English "while" again, no ?

"Warm up some tea while we are playing" ?

I'm not sure why there is a perfective verb here though.


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## Maroseika

englishman said:


> Are you not mixing up different uses of пока ? In the sentence above, surely this is identical to the English "while":
> 
> "While we are playing, you will have time to run to the shop" ?
> 
> This seems to be a completely different usage to that in my original query, which doesn't have an easy word-for-word translation into English.



Yes, these are two different meanings of пока. This one means that it will take a long until we complete playing. In the speech we can distinguish this пока by it's continious and/or rising intonation, like Morzh pointed earlier. In the written speech it can be distinguished from пока = while only from the context. 

Пока ты сыграешь... (= пока еще ты сыграешь...) - it will take a lot of time (too much time) until you stop playing.

- Мама, дай я еще разок сыграю, и пойдем домой.
- Пока еще ты сыграешь... Я тебя ждать замучаюсь. И вообще обедать пора.

Пока ты сыграешь, я схожу в магазин. (during the time you will complete the game, I'll...)
Пока ты играешь, я схожу в магазин. (while you are playing, I'll...) 

#2 is more about completeness of teh acction (play), and # 3 is more about going to the shop, the latter is more usual.


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## Moro12

englishman said:


> Are you not mixing up different uses of пока ? In the sentence above, surely this is identical to the English "while":
> 
> "While we are playing, you will have time to run to the shop" ?
> 
> This seems to be a completely different usage to that in my original query, which doesn't have an easy word-for-word translation into English.



Well, I'd say the both meaning are quite similar and related from Russian point of view. Yes, I think it can be translated into English using "while" in this example.
Пока-а мы сыграем, - ты еще и в магазин сбегать успеешь. "While we are playing, you will have time to run to the shop" "It will take a while until we finish playing, so, you will have time to run to the shop" - do you feel they actually mean nearly the same?

And now, if we remove the second clause, we will get:
Пока-а мы сыграем! "It will a while until we finish playing" - Can you feel it is still logically related to "while we are playing"?

Thus, there are not 2 completely independent meanings in our language. My perception is that the both usages express the same general idea of time duration. "пока" reflects the impression of "time flow". There's even one more very common usage of "пока" as in
Пока! - See you!
And again, it is a further development of the same idea: time will flow, (and finally I'll see you again).




englishman said:


> Согрей-ка нам чайку, пока мы сыграем.
> I'm not sure why there is a perfective verb here though.



The perfective verb here underlines the action completeness: It will take a while before we finish playing. It assumes we are not going to have tea until the game is over.

One can also say: Согрей-ка нам чайку, пока мы играем.
This simply means "Warm up some tea while we are playing". Probably, when the tea is ready, we can make a break in the game, or we can continue playing while having tea, or maybe we will finish playing by that moment - it does not specify the completeness explicitly.


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## englishman

Maroseika said:


> Пока ты сыграешь, я схожу в магазин. (during the time you will complete the game, I'll...)
> Пока ты играешь, я схожу в магазин. (while you are playing, I'll...)
> 
> #2 is more about completeness of teh acction (play), and # 3 is more about going to the shop, the latter is more usual.


Right. The difference here is very clear now. Thanks. I think the appropriate translation for the first in English would be:

"By the time you have finished playing, .."

It's a neat example of how much easier it is to express the idea of completion of an action in Russian than in English.


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## englishman

Moro12 said:


> Well, I'd say the both meaning are quite similar and related from Russian point of view. Yes, I think it can be translated into English using "while" in this example.
> Пока-а мы сыграем, - ты еще и в магазин сбегать успеешь. "While we are playing, you will have time to run to the shop" "It will take a while until we finish playing, so, you will have time to run to the shop" - do you feel they actually mean nearly the same?


No. They are related, but subtly different. The first suggests that the game will still be going on when the person returns from the shop. The second suggests that the game may have finished (but not certainly) when the person returns from the shop. 


> And now, if we remove the second clause, we will get:
> Пока-а мы сыграем! "It will a while until we finish playing" - Can you feel it is still logically related to "while we are playing"?


Yes. I'm beginning to see how this fits together now.


> Thus, there are not 2 completely independent meanings in our language. My perception is that the both usages express the same general idea of time duration. "пока" reflects the impression of "time flow". There's even one more very common usage of "пока" as in
> Пока! - See you!
> And again, it is a further development of the same idea: time will flow, (and finally I'll see you again).


Very nice. I've always been confused by that meaning of пока - it's very clear now.


> The perfective verb here underlines the action completeness: It will take a while before we finish playing. It assumes we are not going to have tea until the game is over.
> 
> One can also say: Согрей-ка нам чайку, пока мы играем.
> This simply means "Warm up some tea while we are playing". Probably, when the tea is ready, we can make a break in the game, or we can continue playing while having tea, or maybe we will finish playing by that moment - it does not specify the completeness explicitly.


Yes. I think I've understood the way this works from Maroseika's post earlier. It's very interesting to see how the use of пока interacts with the use of aspect. 

OK, I think I understand this pretty much now. Thanks very much, everyone. I could never have deduced all of this from a dictionary or grammar text.


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## Moro12

englishman said:


> No. They are related, but subtly different. The first suggests that the game will still be going on when the person returns from the shop. The second suggests that the game may have finished (but not certainly) when the person returns from the shop.



Yes, I agree they are subtly different. But the difference to me is mostly that the second one (It will take a while until we finish playing, so, you will have time to run to the shop) accentuates the word "пока" emotionally, underlying the speaker's prediction that it is going to last quite long, it is not going to be finished soon.
However, I doubt if your opinion that "The second suggests that the game may have finished (but not certainly) when the person returns from the shop" is correct. I would not say it suggests that the game may have finished. I would say: the speaker thinks it is most likely that they will not finish the game by the time of the person's return. The speaker is not 100% sure, but I would underline "most likely". The speaker says: "you will have time to run to the shop and return" - the verb in the second clause is perfective as well.


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