# Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi: phabnaa



## marrish

Dear friends,

The sentence for illustration is as follows:

U: _yih Topii aap ke baRii phabtii hai_ یہ ٹوپی آپ کے بڑی پھبتی ہے۔
H: _yah Topii aap ke baRii phabatii hai_ यह टोपी आप के बड़ी फबती है.

Is this sentence current and correct? How about the use of the verb in question?


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> The sentence for illustration is as follows:
> 
> U: _yih Topii aap ke baRii phabtii hai_ یہ ٹوپی آپ کے بڑی پھبتی ہے۔
> H: _yah Topii aap ke baRii phabatii hai_ यह टोपी आप के बड़ी फबती है.
> 
> Is this sentence current and correct? How about the use of the verb in question?



This verb is common to Punjabi, Urdu and Hindi. It is certainly of common usage in Punjabi but may not be so in the other two languages.


----------



## marrish

I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu I've never used or heard someone use it. Good to know about Punjabi, that is why I included it in the title. Perhaps could you give the sentence in Punjabi?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

In Urdu / Hindi, isn't پھبتی  / फबती as a noun poking fun at someone in an insulting manner?


----------



## Alfaaz

This thread brings a (Punjabi/Saraiki?) song to mind: jhanjar phabdi naa mutiyaar bina


----------



## hungariansikh

phabna-*


ਫਬਣਾ  
in punjabi means:  to make oneself beautiful or presentable; 
                               to look or appear beautiful, fit well, suit, match; 
                               to behove

*


----------



## hindiurdu

The form I have usually heard in Hindi is "ye Topi aap par baRi fab rahi hai" (the usual ph → f / phal → fal deterioration). I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach". "Ye topi aap ke/ko/par baRi jach rahi hai." Note that yah/kah/rah/vah are universally pronounced as yeh/keh/reh/veh in the standard Khariboli dialect. It's vah only for Eastern Hindi / Bihari, or people upset that saying yeh breaks the phoneticity of Devnagri.


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu I've never used or heard someone use it. Good to know about Punjabi, that is why I included it in the title. Perhaps could you give the sentence in Punjabi?



The word "phabnaa" and (if I remember correctly) the noun "phaban" are attested in the Farhang-i-Asifiyyah.

(phullaaN vaaleo) e Topii tuhaaDe utte baRii phabdii e!!


----------



## Alfaaz

hindiurdu said:
			
		

> I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach".


Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi.


----------



## hindiurdu

Alfaaz said:


> Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi.



I stand corrected (something I have to say more and more about more and more things . Thank you Alfaaz sahab!


----------



## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi.



I don't believe Platts gives the derivation as being Hindi. At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, both Urdu and Hindi have the same Kharii-Bolii as their base and this verb, along with others would have taken the same path. As for Urdu Lughat, all that is being implied is that the word is neither Persian nor Arabic. I hope you follow my train of thought.

For Punjabi, I do not know how it is linked to KhaRii-Bolii, if at all. I do know that Professor Sherani's monumental "Punjab meN Urdu" inclines towards Urdu having been descended from Punjabi. But that is another story.


----------



## Alfaaz

> I don't believe Platts gives the derivation as being Hindi. At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, both Urdu and Hindi have the same Kharii-Bolii as their base and this verb, along with others would have taken the same path. As for Urdu Lughat, all that is being implied is that the word is neither Persian nor Arabic. I hope you follow my train of thought.


Yes, I was just trying to show that it is also (equally) used in Hindi and Urdu in addition to "jachnaa" (and Punjabi) as mentioned by hindiurdu SaaHib: 


			
				hindiurdu said:
			
		

> I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach".


----------



## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Yes, I was just trying to show that it is also (equally) used in Hindi and Urdu in addition to "jachnaa" (and Punjabi) as mentioned by hindiurdu SaaHib:



Sure, but what else can one conclude from your statement, "Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi"? Regarding "jachnaa"..

maqaam Faiz ko'ii raah meN jachaa hii nahiiN
jo kuu-i-yaar se nikle to suu-i-daar chale

Faiz Ahmed Faiz


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Sure, but what else can one conclude from your statement, "Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi"? Regarding "jachnaa"..
> 
> maqaam Faiz ko'ii raah meN jachaa hii nahiiN
> jo kuu-i-yaar se nikle to suu-i-daar chale
> 
> Faiz Ahmed Faiz


janaab-e-vaalaa,_ jachnaa_ (or rather _jaNchnaa_) is used by me instead of _phabnaa_. bahut a3aalaa shi3r!
Is the word jaNchnaa or phabnaa used by our poets?



QURESHPOR said:


> The word "phabnaa" and (if I remember correctly) the noun "phaban" are attested in the Farhang-i-Asifiyyah.
> 
> (phullaaN vaaleo) e Topii tuhaaDe utte baRii phabdii e!!


Thanks for the Punjabo sentence.


----------



## greatbear

"phabnaa"/"fabnaa" is a highly common word in Hindi, used in general with "par" or "pe". Example: "Yeh rang to aap pe baRaa fab rahaa hai!"


----------



## hungariansikh

jacchna means to suit p.e.: ਬੜੀ _ਜਚਦੀ_ ਜਦੋ ਤੂੰ ਨਚਦੀ  barhi jachdi jado tuu nachdee,,its suit to you when you re dancing


----------



## Faylasoof

Though پهبنا फबना _phabnaa _is an integral part of our vocabulary, in our Urdu there is a preference for جچنا जचना _jachnaa_. However, the word we really go for is زيب _zeb_ to form the compound verb زيب دينا _zeb denaa_, here & here. Also, when we use _phabnaa__, _we_ tend to _say _par_ _phabnaa. _


----------



## panjabigator

hindiurdu said:


> The form I have usually heard in Hindi is "ye Topi aap par baRi fab rahi hai" (the usual ph → f / phal → fal deterioration). I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach". "Ye topi aap ke/ko/par baRi jach rahi hai." Note that yah/kah/rah/vah are universally pronounced as yeh/keh/reh/veh in the standard Khariboli dialect. It's vah only for Eastern Hindi / Bihari, or people upset that saying yeh breaks the phoneticity of Devnagri.




I had no idea that "phabnā" was also H/U! In my family's Punjabi, we also say "ḍhukkRNā" for this. I may have even started a thread for this somewhere...


----------



## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I had no idea that "phabnā" was also H/U! In my family's Punjabi, we also say "ḍhukkRNā" for this. I may have even started a thread for this somewhere...



PG Jii, but don't we have retroflex in the verb? Apart from that I share your surprise too!


----------



## marrish

What are your views about the sentence I quoted in the OP?


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> What are your views about the sentence I quoted in the OP?



Good question. There is a school of thought that the postposition "ke" refers to the body of the person addressed. However, "Baabaa jaan" is not in agreement with this. To me the "ke" construction feels somewhat outdated but I could be totally off the mark. I personally don't use it and would prefer "par" as suggested by Faylasoof SaaHib.

To answer Cilquiestsuens SaaHib's question, I don't believe the noun "phabtii" is connected with this verb.


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Good question. There is a school of thought that the post position "ke" refers to the addressee's body. However, "Baabaa jaan" is not in agreement with this. To me the "ke" construction feels somewhat outdated but I could be totally off the mark. I personally don't use it and would prefer "par" as suggested by Faylasoof SaaHib.
> 
> To answer Cilquiestsuens SaaHib's question, I don't believe the noun "phabtii" is connected with this verb.


This is the most interesting coincidence and a superb answer. Could you please disclose the initials of ''Baabaa jaan'' or even better, refer here what he said?

You can contact me by PM, if you wish.


----------



## panjabigator

> PG Jii, but don't we have retroflex in the verb? Apart from that I share your surprise too!


Absolutely.


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> This is the most interesting coincidence and a superb answer. Could you please disclose the initials of ''Baabaa jaan'' or even better, refer here what he said?



"yahaaN ek aur nuktah bhii qaabil-i-zikr hai jis kaa ta3alluq zabaan ke muHaavare se hai. zail ke fiqroN meN "ke" ke isti3maal par Ghaur kiijiye.

Ahmad ne us ke thappaR maaraa

   "       "  us ke surmah lagaayaa

ghoRe be us ke laat maarii

maiN ne us ke chuTkii lii

us ke ubTanaa malo

us ke beTaa hu'aa

gadhe ke dum nah thii

us ke choT lagii vaGhairah vaGhairah

ba3z Hazraat kaa is ke muta3alliq yih xayaa hai kih "ke" ke ba3d ko'ii ek lafz maHzuuf hai. masal-an jab ham kahte haiN kih "us ke thappaR maaraa" to asl meN hai "us ke muNh par thappaR maaraa". isii tarH "us ke surmah lagaayaa" is meN aaNkhoN kaa lafz maHzuuf hai. "gadhe" ke dum nah thii" yih asl meN hai "gadhe ke paas dum nah thii."* "us ke choT lagii" ya3nii us ke badan meN yaa jism meN vaGhairah.

lekin merii raa'e meN yih "ke" vuh nahiiN jo Huruuf-i-ma3naviyyah ke aane se "kaa" se "ke" ho jaataa hai.is meN shak nahiiN kih suurat meN us ke mushaabah hai lekin dar Haqiiqat yih "ke" bhii misl duusrii 3alaamaat-i-izaafat (ba-qaul ba3z muHaqqiqiin) aur "ko" ke Haaliyah "kartaa" se maaxuuz hai aur is suurat meN kisii lafz-i-maHzuuf kii zaruurat nahiiN rahtii. 3ilaavah is ke MaaRvaaRii meN jo misl-i-diigar Hindi zabaanoN ke, Prakrit se niklii hai ab tak "ke" muzakkar aur mu'annas, donoN ke liye isti3maal hotaa hai aur Bhojpuri, Maagdhi, Maithli zabaanoN meN ab tak 3alaamat-i-maf3uul "ke", "kii" bhii haiN. niiz Deccan aur ba3z diigar maqaamaat meN bajaa'e "us ke beTaa hu'aa" kahne ke "us ko beTaa hu'aa kahte haiN jo agarchih Urdu muHaavare ke ruu se Ghalat hai magar asl kaa patah detaa hai."

Maulavii Abdul Haq- Qavaa'id-i-Urdu

* I am not too happy with this sentence


----------



## marrish

I appreciate the amount of effort and attention you have sacrificed to make this passage available for everybody and for me specially, since it was me who requested it. I'm happy to know that MAH SaaHib expressed his views on this construction and deemed it the correct idiom, because from your previous post it seemed that you had meant to state that he was against this construction.

To tell you the truth, MAH SaaHib is the author of the sample sentence which I used in the OP, with the addition of Hindi script and respective transliterations.

*That sentence is really not so fortunate, but MAH SaaHib accredits it to ''ba3z Hazraat'', so they are to blame!


----------

