# What region my ancestors (of a current Arabic tribe in Iran) belonged to?



## Habib_Arjmand

Hello everyone,
I am belonging to an Arabic tribe in southern Iran. Our vernacular language now is not a pure Arabic anymore due to the very long time interaction with the Farsi people. It's believed that our ancestors migrated to Iran some time 1000 years ago. Since there have been no written documents and the tribe used to live nomadic lifestyle for the past 1000 years until around 50 years ago, we don't know what region this tribe was originated. The only thing is that this tribe is under 'Jabbarah' name. However, this does not lead to a specific region in Arab countries.
From our few Arabic words that still are alive, and by internet search, I could find some similarities with Iraqi, Najdi, Syrian, Jordanian, and a little bit Hejazi accents. However, my base for research is only internet and the available resources. Although the language of the origin might have changed significantly through the past several centuries, still language tracking could be probably the only research method. I though since our tribe used to be a kind of Badouin, there might be some more similarities between the types of words we kept and the accent of 'Arabic Badouin', specially those tribes that live in the area between Iraq, Saudi, Jordan, and Syria.
This is a very important question for our people, and despite several trials in the past decades, there is still no concrete answer.
Any help is appreciated.
Habib


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## ayed

Habib_Arjmand said:


> Hello everyone,
> I am belonging to an Arabic tribe in southern Iran. Our vernacular language now is not a pure Arabic anymore due to the very long time interaction with the Farsi people. It's believed that our ancestors migrated to Iran some time 1000 years ago. Since there have been no written documents and the tribe used to live nomadic lifestyle for the past 1000 years until around 50 years ago, we don't know what region this tribe was originated. The only thing is that this tribe is under 'Jabbarah' name. However, this does not lead to a specific region in Arab countries.
> From our few Arabic words that still are alive, and by internet search, I could find some similarities with Iraqi, Najdi, Syrian, Jordanian, and a little bit Hejazi accents. However, my base for research is only internet and the available resources. Although the language of the origin might have changed significantly through the past several centuries, still language tracking could be probably the only research method. I though since our tribe used to be a kind of Badouin, there might be some more similarities between the types of words we kept and the accent of 'Arabic Badouin', specially those tribes that live in the area between Iraq, Saudi, Jordan, and Syria.
> This is a very important question for our people, and despite several trials in the past decades, there is still no concrete answer.
> Any help is appreciated.
> Habib


Welcome, Habib.

the name of tribe, Ja*bb*arah or Ja*b*arah?Confrim, please.


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## Hemza

Hello,

I'm neither Iraqi nor from Arabia yet according to a quick search related to the information you gave, جبارة/jabbaara is a tribe who has been deported from Syria to Iran along another tribe which name is شيباني/shaybaani by one of the آل بویه ruler (پناه خسرو) What I found is in French though.


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## Habib_Arjmand

ayed said:


> Welcome, Habib.
> 
> the name of tribe, Ja*bb*arah or Ja*b*arah?Confrim, please.


Hello Ayed,
It is written 'جَبّارة' (Jabbarah) with a 'تشديد' on 'ب'. However, this is what we see in formal texts refer to this tribe.

Thanks,


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## ayed

Habib_Arjmand said:


> Hello Ayed,
> It is written 'جَبّارة' (Jabbarah) with a 'تشديد' on 'ب'. However, this is what we see in formal texts refer to this tribe.
> 
> Thanks,


There is a clan called "*Jabbarah*" belongs to the tribe of '*Anazah*. 'Anazah is a large tribe in the northern Saudi Arabia. I don't know if there are any tribes or clans called Jabbarah other than the one I have just mentioned.


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## Habib_Arjmand

ayed said:


> There is a clan called "*Jabbarah*" belongs to the tribe of '*Anazah*. 'Anazah is a large tribe in the northern Saudi Arabia. I don't know if there are any tribes or clans called Jabbarah other than the one I have just mentioned.


Thanks Ayed. When I searched for the "Jabbarah" name a couple of months ago, I found some information. However, I could not find the upper tribe you mentioned here. If the 'Jabbarah' clan has a long history, e.g. several centuries, it could be the same as our tribe in Iran. If I had some information about their accent, it could help me more for sure.


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm neither Iraqi nor from Arabia yet according to a quick search related to the information you gave, جبارة/jabbaara is a tribe who has been deported from Syria to Iran along another tribe which name is شيباني/shaybaani by one of the آل بویه ruler (پناه خسرو) What I found is in French though.


Hello Hemza,

I see!!!
That's possible. Actually there is another big tribe in Iran named "Shaybaani". "Shaybaani" tribe had been always more important than mine. They even reached to the several high ranked levels in the several Persian Kingdoms in the past several centuries. It is believed that they came before "Jabbarah". However, I never thought they might be deported!


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## Hemza

Are you from Ahwaz? Or an area close to Iraq/Kuwait? Or are you from an area along the Gulf littoral facing Arabia?

Regarding the deportation, I can't be sure since the source says that it is thought that those tribes (shaybani and jabbara) are descendants of Arabs from Syria who were deported but cannot assert it.

You say that your tribe used to have a bedouin lifestyle so I guess they were speaking a bedouin based Arabic dialect. No worries if it doesn't sound/look like the Arabic of Damascus or Amman  it's normal but if you want to hear bedouin Arabic of Syria and you write/read Arabic, you may type on youtube لهجة بادية الشام. That may give you an idea and may be you will notice similarities with your dialect? Or any bedouin Iraqi dialect: لهجة بدو العراق. You will certainly find similarities with yours.


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> Are you from Ahwaz? Or an area close to Iraq/Kuwait? Or are you from an area along the Gulf littoral facing Arabia?
> 
> Regarding the deportation, I can't be sure since the source says that it is thought that those tribes (shaybani and jabbara) are descendants of Arabs from Syria who were deported but cannot assert it.
> 
> You say that your tribe used to have a bedouin lifestyle so I guess they were speaking a bedouin based Arabic dialect. No worries if it doesn't sound/look like the Arabic of Damascus or Amman  it's normal but if you want to hear bedouin Arabic of Syria and you write/read Arabic, you may type on youtube لهجة بادية الشام. That may give you an idea and may be you will notice similarities with your dialect? Or any bedouin Iraqi dialect: لهجة بدو العراق. You will certainly find similarities with yours.


We are not from Ahwaz or close to any borders with Arab countries. Our tribes, as long as the older people remember and heard from their ascendants, were living (migrating) in a province called Fars (southern Iran but not the border).
If the sources of the text you read are from Iran, it is not accurate and is based on some hypotheses in Iranian documents and tribe legends. However, this is the first time I hear that these tribes have been deported from a specific region (Syria). I am interested to look at the source you found in French. I would appreciate it if you can send the link.
I will be looking for some examples of those accents to see If I can feel any similarities )

Thanks,


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## Hemza

Here it is (no one of the sources mentioned at the end of the article is Iranian):
Arabes d'Iran - fr.LinkFang.org

This is what it says about your tribe:

_Fars_​
_Au sein de la confédération nomade Khamseh, on retrouve des nomades arabophones appartenant à la grande tribu de Il-e Arab, notamment dans l’est de la province. Cette tribu a deux branches : les Jabbara et les Shaybani. Ils sont en majorité chiites et seraient venus en Iran en provenance du Croissant Fertile. Ces deux branches seraient les descendants d'Arabes syriens transplantés dans les Fars par le souverain bouyide Azod al-Dawla (r. 949-983).

Les Jabbara ont absorbé de nombreux éléments turcs et lors et leur langue est devenu un mélange d’arabe, de persan et de lori.

Durant le règne de Reza Shah (1925-41), les Khamseh arabes ont grandement souffert, notamment en raison des plans de sédentarisation forcée.

Une autre tribu arabe, les Mishmast, fut amenée dans le Fars par Muhammad Karim Khân de la dynastie des Zand (r. 1760-1779) de l'ouest de l'Iran. La plupart de ses membres furent déportés vers la région de Téhéran par Agha Mohammad Khan, le premier Chah de la dynastie des Qadjars. En 1918, il restait quelque 300 familles Mishmast au nord d'Arsenjan._

A translation attempt:

There are within the nomadic Khamseh confederation, two Arabic speaking tribes which belong to the Il-e Arab who mostly dwell in the Eastern part of the -Fars- province. This tribes is divided into two sections: Jabbara and Shaybani. There are mostly Shiia and it is said that they came to Iran from the Ferticle Crescent. Both sections are supposed to descend from Syrian Arabs who have been deported in the Fars by the Buyid sovereign Azad o-dowleh.

Jabbara members intermixed with many Turkish people to the point that their language is now a mix made of Arabic, Persian and Lori.

During Reza Shah reign, the Khamseh Arabs suffered quite a lot because of the forced settlement policies.

(The last paragraph is about Mishmast Arabs)

Hope it helps . Note that "Syria" here isn't the current Syrian state (which is only a hundred years old) but rather the whole area which includes Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan or the Syrian desert which encompasses Syria, Jordan, Western Iraq and Northern Saudi Arabia (to my knowledge) which is called بادية الشام.

Also, when I look for "Khamseh", some websites I checked say that Khamseh tribes are made of Persian tribes, Arab tribes and Turkish tribes which have been in the 19th century, forced to form a confederation. I suppose you belong to the Arab tribes.


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> Here it is (no one of the sources mentioned at the end of the article is Iranian):
> Arabes d'Iran - fr.LinkFang.org
> 
> This is what it says about your tribe:
> 
> _Fars_​
> _Au sein de la confédération nomade Khamseh, on retrouve des nomades arabophones appartenant à la grande tribu de Il-e Arab, notamment dans l’est de la province. Cette tribu a deux branches : les Jabbara et les Shaybani. Ils sont en majorité chiites et seraient venus en Iran en provenance du Croissant Fertile. Ces deux branches seraient les descendants d'Arabes syriens transplantés dans les Fars par le souverain bouyide Azod al-Dawla (r. 949-983).
> 
> Les Jabbara ont absorbé de nombreux éléments turcs et lors et leur langue est devenu un mélange d’arabe, de persan et de lori.
> 
> Durant le règne de Reza Shah (1925-41), les Khamseh arabes ont grandement souffert, notamment en raison des plans de sédentarisation forcée.
> 
> Une autre tribu arabe, les Mishmast, fut amenée dans le Fars par Muhammad Karim Khân de la dynastie des Zand (r. 1760-1779) de l'ouest de l'Iran. La plupart de ses membres furent déportés vers la région de Téhéran par Agha Mohammad Khan, le premier Chah de la dynastie des Qadjars. En 1918, il restait quelque 300 familles Mishmast au nord d'Arsenjan._
> 
> A translation attempt:
> 
> There are within the nomadic Khamseh confederation, two Arabic speaking tribes which belong to the Il-e Arab who mostly dwell in the Eastern part of the -Fars- province. This tribes is divided into two sections: Jabbara and Shaybani. There are mostly Shiia and it is said that they came to Iran from the Ferticle Crescent. Both sections are supposed to descend from Syrian Arabs who have been deported in the Fars by the Buyid sovereign Azad o-dowleh.
> 
> Jabbara members intermixed with many Turkish people to the point that their language is now a mix made of Arabic, Persian and Lori.
> 
> During Reza Shah reign, the Khamseh Arabs suffered quite a lot because of the forced settlement policies.
> 
> (The last paragraph is about Mishmast Arabs)
> 
> Hope it helps . Note that "Syria" here isn't the current Syrian state (which is only a hundred years old) but rather the whole area which includes Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan or the Syrian desert which encompasses Syria, Jordan, Western Iraq and Northern Saudi Arabia (to my knowledge) which is called بادية الشام.
> 
> Also, when I look for "Khamseh", some websites I checked say that Khamseh tribes are made of Persian tribes, Arab tribes and Turkish tribes which have been in the 19th century, forced to form a confederation. I suppose you belong to the Arab tribes.


I really appreciate your time, Hamzah. It is certainly helpful.
I know the current international borders (including Syria) are much different than several hundred centuries before when our tribes migrated (or were forced to migrate) to Iran.
Yes, the "Khamsah" confederation was a governmental forced combination of tribes to encounter another rebellious Turkish tribe in the region at the time. And, my tribe is the Arab one of it. In fact, one of the main reasons that our tribes' Arabic language wained more quickly was this force settlement in the early 19th century by the Persian king at the time. But still, there are few alive words that before it dies out completely could help to find the origin of our tribes. This may be the last attempt for a member of this tribe.

Thanks,


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## Hemza

Then you may make up a list of words that you know,  post it here and it may help to link your tribe by comparing it with the current spoken dialects (your tribe may even have conserved words which may be considered old fashioned by current day Arabic speakers) that may lead you a little bit? I hope other members (notably from Iraq/Arabia) may be able to provide you more information .


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> Then you may make up a list of words that you know,  post it here and it may help to link your tribe by comparing it with the current spoken dialects (your tribe may even have conserved words which may be considered old fashioned by current day Arabic speakers) that may lead you a little bit? I hope other members (notably from Iraq/Arabia) may be able to provide you more information .


That's true. I'll be making a list of vocabularies. One problem that may make it difficult to track the dialect is the constant changes in Arabic languages in the past several centuries. For example, we say "ياغِد" (he goes). And I know that most likely this word is no longer used in any Arabic countries. However, I am pretty sure that we are part of "يگول" /yegul/ Arabic dialect. Or, the sounds for the "ك" for male and female in ,e.x. "انتك", are both /k/ but pronounced in the middle of palate (mouth ceiling) for male and the end of palate for female. But in Iraqi, e.x., it's pronounced "چ" /ch/ for female.


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## WannaBFluent

I've found a text where it claims that Jabbarah tribe pretend (with some others) to descend from the Beni Sharban from Arabia.


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## Habib_Arjmand

WannaBFluent said:


> I've found a text where it claims that Jabbarah tribe pretend (with some others) to descend from the Beni Sharban from Arabia.
> 
> View attachment 65910


Thanks. It's interesting! I haven't heard about Beni Sharban. I even could not find any clear information about this tribe in the internet. The source seems old. Is it possible that the source mistyped "Shayban" as "Sharban" at the time?


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## Hemza

Habib_Arjmand said:


> That's true. I'll be making a list of vocabularies. One problem that may make it difficult to track the dialect is the constant changes in Arabic languages in the past several centuries. For example, we say "ياغِد" (he goes). And I know that most likely this word is no longer used in any Arabic countries. However, I am pretty sure that we are part of "يگول" /yegul/ Arabic dialect. Or, the sounds for the "ك" for male and female in ,e.x. "انتك", are both /k/ but pronounced in the middle of palate (mouth ceiling) for male and the end of palate for female. But in Iraqi, e.x., it's pronounced "چ" /ch/ for female.


If ياغد is derived from غدى/يغدو ("to go" in Standard Arabic) then it's used in Oman/Yemen (يغدي) and some other Peninsular dialects (Arabian members know better than me). It's even found in Morocco and Western Algeria although it's not under the same form (غادي).

As for "yiguul", this is the most widespread pronunciation of the verb يقول and it's widely used in Arabia and Iraq (not everywhere though). As for the /ch/ sound, it's found in Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Syria (may be Lebanon as well?) and the Gulf littoral countries (including Eastern Saudi Arabia). You may also listen to Ahwazi Arabic speakers, may be you'll find similarities with your dialect?



> I've found a text where it claims that Jabbarah tribe pretend (with some others) to descend from the Beni Sharban from Arabia.


@WannaBFluent  I looked for قبيلة شربان on Google and found a Facebook page about عنزة. It may be a mistake as pointed out by حبيب?


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## ayed

Habib_Arjmand said:


> Thanks Ayed. When I searched for the "Jabbarah" name a couple of months ago, I found some information. However,* I could not find the upper tribe *you mentioned here. If the 'Jabbarah' clan has a long history, e.g. several centuries, it could be the same as our tribe in Iran. If I had some information about their accent, it could help me more for sure.


check out this twitter account


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/601482993430097920


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## WannaBFluent

Habib_Arjmand said:


> Thanks. It's interesting! I haven't heard about Beni Sharban. I even could not find any clear information about this tribe in the internet. The source seems old. Is it possible that the source mistyped "Shayban" as "Sharban" at the time?


Indeed, looks like a typo!

Also, check this:
_The Jabbareh settled in Fars know themselves as the descendants of *Jabir ibn Abd Allah*, a companion of prophet Muhammad. Their ancestor Sheikh Jinaah migrated to Fars and married a Sheybani girl, naming his descendants "Jabbareh"_
Khamseh Arabs - Wikipedia

Also, in Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran Vol.29, N.1-2
They say the Jabbarah tribe are originally from Najd and Oman.


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> If ياغد is derived from غدى/يغدو ("to go" in Standard Arabic) then it's used in Oman/Yemen (يغدي) and some other Peninsular dialects (Arabian members know better than me). It's even found in Morocco and Western Algeria although it's not under the same form (غادي).
> 
> As for "yiguul", this is the most widespread pronunciation of the verb يقول and it's widely used in Arabia and Iraq (not everywhere though). As for the /ch/ sound, it's found in Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Syria (may be Lebanon as well?) and the Gulf littoral countries (including Eastern Saudi Arabia). You may also listen to Ahwazi Arabic speakers, may be you'll find similarities with your dialect?
> 
> 
> @WannaBFluent  I looked for قبيلة شربان on Google and found a Facebook page about عنزة. It may be a mistake as pointed out by حبيب?


Thanks Hemza. Indeed "ياغِد" is from the same root as "غدى", since we use this as well. I just thought this verb hab been a common verb in several centuries ago and is no longer used in Arabian countries anymore. The 'ch' sound is not heard in our dialect, still is a 'k' sound, but different than the standard one. I have an Iraqi family friend here, and had an Ahwazi friend in college. Although we have some obvious similarities, I thought either we don't have the same origin with Ahwazi/Iraqi people, or their language and dialect has changed slowly through the time when my ancestors had been isolated in a Persian/Turkish/Lur dominant region.
Along with Jabbarah and Shaybaani tribes, there is another group of Arabs in the same region that their accent was obviously different than us. It is believed that they migrated from Oman. It is very important whether the Western authors met with which groups through their travels to Iran at the time.


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## Habib_Arjmand

ayed said:


> check out this twitter account
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/601482993430097920


Thanks, Ayed. I found their Facebook page I believe. There is another big group of tribes under the name of "الجوابرة/الجابرة/الجابري" who links themselves to "جابر ابن عبدالله انصاري" and are spread from Lebanon to Jordan to Syria.


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## Habib_Arjmand

WannaBFluent said:


> Indeed, looks like a typo!
> 
> Also, check this:
> _The Jabbareh settled in Fars know themselves as the descendants of *Jabir ibn Abd Allah*, a companion of prophet Muhammad. Their ancestor Sheikh Jinaah migrated to Fars and married a Sheybani girl, naming his descendants "Jabbareh"_
> Khamseh Arabs - Wikipedia
> 
> Also, in Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran Vol.29, N.1-2
> They say the Jabbarah tribe are originally from Najd and Oman.
> 
> View attachment 65929





WannaBFluent said:


> Indeed, looks like a typo!
> 
> Also, check this:
> _The Jabbareh settled in Fars know themselves as the descendants of *Jabir ibn Abd Allah*, a companion of prophet Muhammad. Their ancestor Sheikh Jinaah migrated to Fars and married a Sheybani girl, naming his descendants "Jabbareh"_
> Khamseh Arabs - Wikipedia
> 
> Also, in Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran Vol.29, N.1-2
> They say the Jabbarah tribe are originally from Najd and Oman.
> 
> View attachment 65929


Thanks. The Wikipedia information is what nowadays is discussed. I think it is not accurate and is based on some tribal legends.
The general understanding is still the regions Najd and Oman mentioned in the other sources.


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## Habib_Arjmand

These are few random basic vocabularies and short expressions that still are used among my people from the Jabbarah tribe, and I thought most of them might be different from other dialects. Certainly, even in the same tribe, from clan to clan, there are some minor differences in one specific term. For example, we say "محلاج" for roller spin and the other clan uses "مسندر".

سَحْري: Morning
عَصِري: Afternoon
عَشِة: Evening
بَرحة (بارحة): Last night
بَرحة لولة: The night before last night
اُول أمس: The day before last day
بَكِر (باكِر): Tomorrow
بَعدة: The day after tomorrow
بِنِيّة: Girl
جيل: Youth
جَهِل: Young
هَي: Yes
إش Or إيش: What
لِيش: Why, For what
وِن: Where
اِمِتْ: When
اُوحَد: Which one
تَعَیْ: Come (female)
زِيْنْ: Good, ok
شِنْ: Bad
ريحة: Smell
حاسوس: Sensitive
ضغير: Younger
مويْ: Water
خاثِرْ: Yogurt
لِبِنْ: Fermented watery yogurt
سِتِرْ: Tent
مِحلاج: Bread making rolling pin
جِلِم, مِگراض: Scissors
دِگيگ: /degig/ Flour
خُبِزْ رگاگ: /regag/ Thin bread
اَگول /agul/: I say
يگول /yigul/: He says
اِگْئَدْ: /eg'ad/ Sit down
اُگُفْ: /ogof/ Stand up
داكْ: That (thing or male)
ديكّي: That (female)
هَنْ: Here
هُناك (هِناك): There
يِسي: He does
اِسي: She does
أنا كِسي: What I do?
يِنطي: He gives
اَسير: I walk
يِصار: It becomes/will be done
مُرة عَمّي: My ankle's wife
رضّيع: Baby/kid
عَدمْ روحي: Swear to my soul
أحْلِف: I swear
بزّون: Cat
فارِس: Horse
بِعير: Camel (widely used, but other terms like جِمِل may be used in conversation)
شَعِر عِنْزة: Goat hairs
صوف نَعِجة: Sheep wool
زولي: Carpet
حُور: A design or pattern of a carpet
يِدُگ /yedog/: He heats/beats
يُكْتِل: He kills
آخِذْ: I take/buy
ياغِد: He goes
يِجي: He comes
گِربة /gerbeh/: Skin of lamb used to store and cool water
ماعون: Kitchen utensils or dishes
طاسة: Bowl
عَيّن: Look
شوف: See
حَلِگْ /haleg/: Mouth
حَنْجور: Throat
اِجلان: Feet
رُكُب: Knee
کَعْبْ: Ankle
غَرِبة: Tree
شِجِرْ: Grass
عود: Wood
دُوبة: Hill
جافِر: Well (the hole in the ground)
گائِة /gaeh/: Ground
تِبِنْ: Straw (the dried stems of wheat, hey, ...)
إحشام: Group of people of a family or clan with their animals
گِدام /gedam/: In front/ in advance
تَحْثوب: Under wear/ pants
ظاهِر: Back (of something/someone)
راحة اليد: Hand palm
كيفُ حالِك: How are you
إيش گاء /ish gaa/: what place?
إيشِنو: What is it?
إسمك إيشو: What's your name?
مَادري: I don't understand/know.
ْتِصَنِّت: You (male) listen (carefully)
اُسْكُت: Be quite
ماشوفك: Can't see you (both male and female with different 'ك' sound)

Thanks,


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## Hemza

Actually, most of the words you quoted are used either in all dialects or in some (mainly Iraqi/Gulf/Najdi dialects I think). Even as far as the Maghreb, there are many similarities with your dialect . Many words can even easily be traced like:

سحري makes me think of سحور which is the meal we eat before the first prayer of the day.
عصري is akin to العصر which is the time when the night is coming (sunset may be?)
عشية is the evening
برحة لولة is certainly the local pronunciation of البارحة الأولى which is widely used across (some?) dialects like "أول البارح/أول أمس" to say "the [...] before"

زين/شين (good/bad) are widely used in bedouin and bedouin based dialects in all Arabic speaking countries.

بزون is typically an Iraqi word to my knowledge and it means "cat".

Even the verb "ينتي" looks like Northern Arabian/Iraqi/Jordanian/Syrian "ينطي" which is the way some people pronounce "يعطي".

تِصَنِّت is widely used as well but I think it usually means "to listen carefully" (at least in my dialect) while "to hear" is سمع.

Well according to your list, your dialect doesn't look too different from the current spoken ones! . If hearing you, I'm sure most Arabic speakers will think you're Iraqi and Arabian/Iraqi/Syrian people would understand you with ease.


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## Habib_Arjmand

Hemza said:


> Actually, most of the words you quoted are used either in all dialects or in some (mainly Iraqi/Gulf/Najdi dialects I think). Even as far as the Maghreb, there are many similarities with your dialect . Many words can even easily be traced like:
> 
> سحري makes me think of سحور which is the meal we eat before the first prayer of the day.
> عصري is akin to العصر which is the time when the night is coming (sunset may be?)
> عشية is the evening
> برحة لولة is certainly the local pronunciation of البارحة الأولى which is widely used across (some?) dialects like "أول البارح/أول أمس" to say "the [...] before"
> 
> زين/شين (good/bad) are widely used in bedouin and bedouin based dialects in all Arabic speaking countries.
> 
> بزون is typically an Iraqi word to my knowledge and it means "cat".
> 
> Even the verb "ينتي" looks like Northern Arabian/Iraqi/Jordanian/Syrian "ينطي" which is the way some people pronounce "يعطي".
> 
> تِصَنِّت is widely used as well but I think it usually means "to listen carefully" (at least in my dialect) while "to hear" is سمع.
> 
> Well according to your list, your dialect doesn't look too different from the current spoken ones! . If hearing you, I'm sure most Arabic speakers will think you're Iraqi and Arabian/Iraqi/Syrian people would understand you with ease.


You seem very knowledgeable of Arabic dialects, Hemza, you should be/become a linguist 
All your analyses are true, based on the standard Arabic courses I took during schools, and I can remember a little bit. "تصَنِّت" has the meaning you mentioned for sure. I may mixed its meaning with a Persian word used for that situation. I'm a bilingual, with major Farsi and an immature Arabic language  I edited two words of the list to not confuse others 
One important fact is that our tribe's language had not been developing for hundreds of years. And due to the isolation, they lost numerous vocabularies and replaced them with Farsi or other local languages around. My only hope was probably the accent not the dialect since as for dialect we could focus on the vocabularies. But in this situation and with just some basic words rarely I can connect to a specific dialect.
Your last thought is that the way these words are pronounced looks Iraqi, right? My own association was a dialect or region between Northern Arabia, Iraq, Syria, and Jordan. It's not a linguistic conclusion, but I thought we had some limited words in common with each region, like "بزّونة" with current Iraq, "خاثر" with current Jordan, "ماعون" with Arabia, "عيِّن" with current Syria.

Thanks,


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## Hemza

Habib_Arjmand said:


> You seem very knowledgeable of Arabic dialects, Hemza, you should be/become a linguist


Hahaha thanks, I just have the luck to be exposed to many of them . And as you do, I try to trace the origin of the dialects spoken across North Africa (Maghreb+Egypt/Sudan) to find their roots in Arabia.


Habib_Arjmand said:


> All your analyses are true, based on the standard Arabic courses I took during schools, and I can remember a little bit. "تصَنِّت" has the meaning you mentioned for sure. I may mixed its meaning with a Persian word used for that situation. I'm a bilingual, with major Farsi and an immature Arabic language  I edited two words of the list to not confuse others


Actually, I'm not a native Arabic speaker, it's rather my parents who are . My native language is French since I was born and I spent all my life in France (and I had the chance to learn Arabic).


Habib_Arjmand said:


> My only hope was probably the accent not the dialect since as for dialect we could focus on the vocabularies. But in this situation and with just some basic words rarely I can connect to a specific dialect.


I think you should rather focus on the vocabulary since the accent won't help you to find out the area. Your language has been influenced and I guess most of you are primarily Persian speakers, aren't you hence I guess your accent is influenced (do you sound like Ahwazi speakers? Because to my non native ear, they sound similar to Iraqi/Kuwaiti speakers).Thus I suppose it will be hard to trace the origin of the accent. Vocabulary on the other hand won't give you an accurate "birthplace" but at least, it can help you to define a broad area (since as you certainly know, dialects are a continuum, they're not strictly marked by political borders).


Habib_Arjmand said:


> Your last thought is that the way these words are pronounced looks Iraqi, right? My own association was a dialect or region between Northern Arabia, Iraq, Syria, and Jordan. It's not a linguistic conclusion, but I thought we had some limited words in common with each region, like "بزّونة" with current Iraq, "خاثر" with current Jordan, "ماعون" with Arabia, "عيِّن" with current Syria.
> 
> Thanks,


ماعون is used by all dialects to my knowledge and عيِّن as well (with more or less frequency). At least, they are expected to be understood by any speaker while without exposure to Iraqi, I doubt anyone will know what is a بزّونة. I'm neither knowledgeable enough about the history of your tribe (I didn't even know about it before you post  ) nor about the history of tribes migrations yet I think that your tribe certainly migrated from Arabia (where exactly is the question) and before going to Iran, certainly remained some times in Iraq. Bedouin dialects are usually close with each other in spite the large area they cover that is what makes hard to define the area where your tribe hails from (many of the words you quoted for instance are used in Arabia/Syria/Iraq but also used across bedouin dialects of North Africa and Sinai but for sure, your tribe doesn't come from North Africa ).

Edit: I found this:
Welcome to Encyclopaedia Iranica

You may find useful information?

This is a study reference about your tribe: _Sehampur (1999) on the Arabs of the Khamsa in Fars_


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## Habib_Arjmand

I respect your interest in knowing and tracking Arabic dialects and roots. I assume your parents are originally from North Africa since you are more confident about those dialects 


Hemza said:


> You may find useful information?
> 
> This is a study reference about your tribe: Sehampur (1999) on the Arabs of the Khamsa in Fars


I know the author of this book. He even interviewed my father for his book. The information in the book is mainly based on observations and interviews not linguistics or genetics.

Vocabularies could be a powerful method to trace back a dialect if it was a shorter term gap not 1000-year. As I mentioned before, my hope was accent, which you truly stated the fluidity and continuity of accents through the centuries and across the regions.

Thanks anyways,


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## SayyadAlhassan

Habib_Arjmand said:


> These are few random basic vocabularies and short expressions that still are used among my people from the Jabbarah tribe, and I thought most of them might be different from other dialects. Certainly, even in the same tribe, from clan to clan, there are some minor differences in one specific term. For example, we say "محلاج" for roller spin and the other clan uses "مسندر".
> 
> اِمِتْ: When
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  *اُوحَد: Which one*  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> تَعَیْ: Come (female)


Hi, Sorry I am of no help to you. I am on a quest of myself, and you seem like my only hope. lol (Imagine a full internet, but found only one link)

So, In my family tree.. around 1000 AD in Tabaristan (now Iran) we have mentions of Hasan-AlUtrush and his grandson.
The grandson's name is written as ((سید وجیہ الدین ابو محمد حسن ناصر صغیر المخاطب بہ اُوحَد))
No matter how much I search and where I can't find what does the word اُوحَد mean.
I just know that he was also known as اُوحَد, but there must be some meaning or story behind this. There's the arabic word uhad but clearly this is not that word because otherwise the writer would not feel the need to mark the harkats on the word.
Do you have any idea about this word? (Also since the book has been documenting things from so long, it uses words from Arabic, Farsi and Urdu.. so could be from anywhere lol)


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