# fire + to burn



## ThomasK

How do you translate both terms please ? We have had _fire _before, but I wonder about whether any language uses the same stem to refer to the phenomenon, the verbs and the event resulting from fire. 

I see three or four 'aspects': 
- *vuur*/ fire : what is caused by lightning or is produced by a match, one of the four elements
- *branden*/ to burn: the verb, referring to what the fire does (not to what it does to people or things)
- *de brand*/ the fire : like the one in London in 1666
- *verbranden (in lichterlaaie zetten [set afire, set aflame]*/ to burn: the sun can burn our skin, fire can set on fire, and we can burn things (make them disappear, ...)


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## DearPrudence

In *French*:

- *vuur*/ fire : *le feu*
- *branden*/ to burn:* brûler / colloquial : cramer*
- *de brand*/ the fire / *l'incendie*
- *verbranden (in lichterlaaie zetten)*/ to burn: *brûler*


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## tFighterPilot

Hebrew (stress is always on the last syllable):
Fire - Esh אש
To burn - Lisrof לישרוף
Big fire - Sreifa שריפה
To set fire - Lehav'ir להבעיר
Burning - Bo'er בוער


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*Fire:* Formally, «πυρ» /pir/ a neuter noun deriving from the Classical neuter noun «πῦρ» (pūr)--> _fire_; PIE base *p(e)wōr-/*pūr-/*paewr-, _fire_ (cf. Czech pyr, _hot ashes_; Umbrian pir; Skt. पू (pu), _cleansing, purifying_; Hittite paḫḫur; Eng. fire; Ger. feuer; Fr. feu).
Colloquially, «φωτιά» /fo'tça/, a Byzantine feminine noun «φωτία» (pho'tia)--> _fire_, a derivation from the Classical neuter noun «φῶς» (pʰōs)--> _light_; PIE base *bʰa-, _light, brightness_ (cognate with Skt. भास (bhasa), _brightness_; Fr. boue; Eng. berry; Lat. bandum).
*To burn:* «Καίω» /'ceo/, deriving from the Classical «καίω» ('kǣō)--> _to kindle, set on fire, burn_. PIE base *qēu- (2), _to set alight, burn_ (cf. Lith. kūlës, _firewood_).
*The fire:* «Πυρκαϊά» /pirkai'a/ or «πυρκαγιά» /pirka'ʝa/ (fem. noun); deriving form the Classical feminine noun «πυρκαϊὰ» (pŭrkăī'ă)--> init. _funeral pyre_, later, _any burning pyre_; compound, neuter noun «πῦρ» (pūr) + verb «καίω» ('kǣō). The Fire of London is «η  Πυρκαϊά του Λονδίνου» /i pirkai'a tu lon'ðinu/
*To set afire/aflame:* In the ancient language, the verb was «πίμπρημι» ('pĭmprēmĭ); PIE base *preus-, _to freeze_ also _to burn_ (cognate with Skt. प्रुष्णोति (prusnoti), _to moisten, sprinkle_; Eng. freeze; Welsh rhew, _frost_; Ger. frieren; Goth. frius, _frost_). It has survived in the modern language only in compounds e.g. the crime of arson is described by the masculine noun «εμπρησμός» (embriz'mos); preposition and prefix «ἐν» (ēn)--> _in_ + verb «πίμπρημι» ('pĭmprēmĭ).
In the modern language we set afire/aflame periphrastically, with the verb «βάζω» /'vazo/ --> _to mount, exalt, put on, put in, set_ (from the Classical «βιβάζω» (bĭ'bāzō) with roughly the same meanings) + «φωτιά» /fo'tça/ or «πυρκαϊά» /pirkai'a/


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## Outsider

In Portuguese there are separate words for each, although sometimes their meanings overlap.

*Fire*: *fogo*
*To burn* (intransitive; a fire or a fuel): *arder*
*The fire*: *incêndio*; *to set fire* (active): *incendiar, deitar fogo*; *to catch fire* (passive): *incendiar-se, pegar fogo*
*To burn* (active; something): *queimar*; *to be/get burned* (passive): *queimar-se*

Also *campsite fire: fogueira*.


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## ThomasK

Portugese: lots of links with French, I believe, except for the _queimar_. What is the background of that ? 

Hebrew: do all those words simply have different origins ? 

Greek: interesting links with words we somehow know from our languages (or so I think). INteresting link with light. INteresting that in ancient language the link was so evident, but so strange that burning and freezing are linked here (though I vaguely remember that frost can cause burns, or am I mistaken ?).


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> ...Greek: INteresting that in ancient language the link was so evident, but so strange that burning and freezing are linked here (though I vaguely remember that frost can cause burns, or am I mistaken ?).


Or perhaps the protoindoeuropean root describes extreme weather conditions or in general extreme natural events: It's natural in Sanskrit, the root *preus- to be the basis of describing the heavy rains of the monsoon, as it's also natural in German, Welsh or the rest of northern European languages for the root *preus- to be the basis of describing extreme winter freezing conditions, and in southern Europe (Greek) of summer heatwave.
I don't know, just a thought


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## 涼宮

Hello! 

*Spanish:*

Fire= fuego
To burn= quemar (For everything), achicharrar, abrasar, chamuscar, arder, calcinar.
_Achicharrar_ means to fire something a lot, heavy fire. 
_Abrasar_ means more or less the same thing as achicharrar, but it's less common.
_Chamuscar(to singe)_ means you fire the outer part of something.
_Arder _means something is burnt to the ground. e.g: el bosque está ardiendo.
_Calcinar_ means to destroy by means of fire.
Fire (like a building)= incendio
To set fire= prender fuego, quemar

*Japanese:*

Fire:

1) 火 _hi_ (in general)
2) 火事 _kaji_ (big fire)
3) 炉火 _rohi_ (it refers to the fire used to burn piled up ingredients or materials )
4) 燃焼 _nenshou_ (As the process that accompanies the generation of heat or radiation) (it can be translated as fire or burning combustion)
5) 発射 _hassha_ (Refers to the fire that military affairs, missiles, etc. produce)
6)  発砲、射撃 _happou_, _shageki_ (Refer to the fire from a rifle. _Hassha_ can be used for that too)
7) 閃き、輝き _hirameki_, _kagayaki_ (Refers to creative originality, genius, creative power)

To burn:

1) 燃やす、焼く、焼却する _moyasu_, _yaku_, _shoukyaku suru_ (All of them mean to burn in general, but the last one is more destructive)
2) 消費する、燃焼する、消耗する _shouhi suru, nenshou suru, shoumou suru_ (Refer to burn calories or energy)
3)燃える、焼ける、焦げる _moeru, yakeru, kogeru_ (these are the intransitive verbs, they are translated as to burn or to be on fire) (the last one refers to food)
4)火照る _hoteru_ (Refers to burn only a part of the body, literally or figuratively as in: my face burned with shame)
5)焼き付く _yakitsuku_ (when a thought, intention or idea burns)

Japanese is a very specific language for contexts, there are more ways to say ''to burn'' and some more to say ''fire'' .
I wonder why English doesn't distinguish between a little fire(vuur) and a big fire(brand).

I hope you find Japanese more interesting everyday


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## ThomasK

I am simply starting to love Japanese!

It is so interesting to see that there are different distinctions, maybe a different worldview. But let me ask some more questions: 
Fire :
- do 1-3 have a common root, something like hi/ji ? And is there simply a variation in the _shou _and the _ki _words ? Could you comment on the other parts of the word then ? 
- is 5 (maybe also 6) like an explosion rather ? We can use 'fire a rifle and missile' as well, but we do not that often refer to _fire _as a noun in that context, though we can.
- is 7 like enthusiasm? We can refer to 'fiery [_vurig_] enthusiasm' as well, sometime also to the fire of the enthusiasm, but it is not that common (I recognize that also in French _ardent_, English _fervent_)
- little/ big fire: I think English has _blaze_, but indeed, not so many others, I guess... 
To burn
- what is the _suru/ -ru _element ? 
- _hoteru _does not refer to hot in English, does it? 
- does _yakitsuku _refer to pain ? 

Thanks again !


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## ThomasK

Interesting note, Apmoy !

As for Spanish (and Portuguese): 


涼宮 said:


> Fire= _*fuego*_
> Fire (like a building)= *incendio
> *To set fire= _*prender fuego, quemar*
> _To burn= *quemar *(For everything), _achicharrar, abrasar, chamuscar, arder, calcinar_.
> * - *_Achicharrar_ means: to fire something a lot, heavy fire; a_brasar_ means more or less the same thing as _achicharrar_, but it's less common.
> _- Chamuscar (to singe)_ means you fire the outer part of something.
> _- Arder _means something is burnt to the ground. e.g: el bosque está ardiendo.
> _- Calcinar_ means to destroy by means of fire.


I see some parallels, and the same difference as for the roots of fire and big fire. But Portuguese seems more 'fiery' in that it has more (near-)synonyms of _quemar_... Does _arder _have the same meaning in Spanish and Portuguese?


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## AquisM

Chinese:
*Fire:* 火 (Mandarin: huo/Cantonese: fo)
*To burn (intrans.):* (燃)烧/(燃)燒 (combustion - can be used with calories) (Mandarin: (ran)shao/Cantonese: (yin) siu)
燃: ingite/light
*Fire (event - like Fire of London):* 大火 (lit. big fire) (Mandarin: dahuo/Cantonese: dai fo)
*To burn (trans./intrans.):* (焚)烧/(焚)燒 (Mandarin: (fen)shao/Cantonese: (fan) siu)
焚: incinerate
*To burn to destroy:* 烧毁/燒毀 (Mandarin: shaohui/Cantonese: siu wai)
毀: destroy 
*To set fire:* 放火 (Mandarin: fanghuo/Cantonese: fong fo)
放: to place (lit. place fire)
*Bonfire:* 篝火 (Mandarin: gouhuo/Cantonese: gau fo - rare)
篝: cage (literary)
*Campfire:* 营火/營火 (Mandarin: yinghuo/Cantonese: ying fo)
營: camp 
*Fire of a stove/furnace/oven:* 炉火/爐火 (Mandarin: luhuo/Cantonese: lou fo - lit. Stove fire)
*Char/Scorch:* 烧焦/燒焦 (Mandarin: shaojiao/Cantonese: siu ziu)
焦: char
*Cremate/Incinerate:* 焚化 (Mandarin: fenhua/Cantonese: fan faa)
化: transform/process

Chinese  is rather contextual like Japanese (perhaps not as much), and a lot of  overlapping exists due to Japanese borrowing from Chinese in ancient  times. Also, there are many synonyms in Chinese as each character has meaning. The above are just some of the ways you can express an idea.


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## Favara

*Catalan
*Fire: _foc_
Fire (big and out of control, like a forest fire): _incendi_
Campfire, pyre: _foguera_
To burn: _cremar_, _socarrar_ (to scorch)
To set on fire: _incendiar, botar foc

Foguera _from _foc_, itself from Latin _focus_. _Botar foc_ literally means "to jump fire", figuratively you're making the fire "jump" towards the object.
_Incendi_ and _incendiar_ from Latin _incendium_.
_Cremar _from Latin _cremare_.
_Socarrar_ from Basque _su_ ("fire") + _karra_ ("flame").


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## ThomasK

So some are indeed different from Spanish or Portuguese. And thanks for the etymological reference to _focus._ I checked on the origin of_ socarrar _and _scorch,_ but it does not become clear. Thanks though!


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## rusita preciosa

*Russian:*

Fire (any): огонь /ogon’/
Flame: пламя /plamia/
Fire (forest, building): пожар /pozhar/ 
Campfire: костёр /kostior/
To burn (transitive): жечь /zhetch/
To burn (intransitive): гореть /goriet’/
To set fire (to something / transitive): зажечь; поджечь /zazhetch; podzhetch/
To set on fire / to start burning (intransitive): загореться /zagoretsia/ - reflexive verb

Unlike the English verb "to burn", the corresponding russian verbs have different roots when transitive (to burn something / to burn wood) and intransitive (to burn; wood burns).


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## ThomasK

There are so many different stems indeed. Only _жеч_ ь /zhetch/ do I see turn up several times, and гор... Could you imagine some reason for that ? (Guess not, but who knows_...)_

Do you use any of those in a figurative sense ?


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## rusita preciosa

I do not know the reason, other than I suppose the acts of burning (intr.) and having something burn (tr.) are viewed in Russian as two completely different actions, hence two roots. Verbs like these present difficulty for Russians who learn English, as they have to rely solely on context to understand who/what is burning what.

Same with fire (any) vs. fire (building) vs. fire (campfire) - to us these are completely different things.

Yes, most of these are used in figurative sense, primarily to describe very strong emotions, I suppose like in most IE languages.


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## 涼宮

ThomasK said:


> I am simply starting to love Japanese!
> 
> It is so interesting to see that there are different distinctions, maybe a different worldview. But let me ask some more questions:
> Fire :
> - do 1-3 have a common root, something like hi/ji ? And is there simply a variation in the _shou _and the _ki _words ? Could you comment on the other parts of the word then ? You actually have to pay attention to the kanji and not to the pronunciation  1, 2 and 3 use the same kanji 火 _hi _(fire). Japanese kanji change their pronunciation according to: being together with another kanji, being isolated, or being part of a proper name. If it is with another kanji it may change its pronunciation depending on if it is on the right or on the left. The readings of a kanji are divided into on'yomi and kun'yomi. Here you can read about the readings in Japanese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji - the kanji for fire 火 can be pronounced as _ka_, _ho_, _bi_ and _hi_. That's why you may be confused about the root, but it's the same.
> - is 5 (maybe also 6) like an explosion rather ? We can use 'fire a rifle and missile' as well, but we do not that often refer to _fire _as a noun in that context, though we can. Good eye! What they have in common is the first kanji 発, which means: discharge, departure, publish, emit, disclose, and counter for gunshots. The fire that those words refer to is the fire produced by millitary affairs which is bigger and more destructive, and yes, it's rather an explosion, but not completely it. Here you have some images for _hassha_ http://www.google.co.ve/search?tbm=...1l0l0l0l0l154l154l0j1l1l0.llsin.&q=発射&orq=発射+ and you have some others for _happou_ http://www.google.co.ve/search?tbm=....,cf.osb&fp=b06541e42de9d393&biw=1280&bih=930
> - is 7 like enthusiasm? We can refer to 'fiery [_vurig_] enthusiasm' as well, sometime also to the fire of the enthusiasm, but it is not that common (I recognize that also in French _ardent_, English _fervent_) Yes, rather that. It's a good way to see it since the 2nd kanji means ''shine''  ''glitter'' ''sparkle'' or even ''radiance''.
> - little/ big fire: I think English has _blaze_, but indeed, not so many others, I guess...
> To burn
> - what is the _suru/ -ru _element ? _Suru_ is the verb to do. In Japanese you can virtually form a verb from any noun, if you see _suru_ like that it's because the word behind is a noun, _suru_ is turning it into a verb. The -ru part for other things may be just a reading of a kanji or the ending of verbs in infinitive. Many verbs in infinitive in Japanese end by -ru, they can also end by: -tsu, -su, -ku, -gu, -mu, -nu, -u and -bu. It's quite easy to recognize verbs in Japanese. So far, I guess you have already learnt to distinguish between kanji and kana, if you have, then from now on you can know when a verb is in infinitive according to the endings I gave you. For instance: 焼*く* _ya*ku*(burn)_, 食べ*る* _tabe*ru*(eat)_, 歌*う *_uta*u*_(sing), 微笑*む* _hohoe*mu*(smile)_, 死*ぬ *_shi*nu*(die)_、待*つ* _ma*tsu*(wait)_、話*す* _hana*su*(speak)_、泳*ぐ* _oyo*gu*(swim)、_運*ぶ* _hako*bu*(carry)_. As you see, the kana is outside of the kanji, the kanji is the ''complicated'' ideogram you see
> - _hoteru _does not refer to hot in English, does it? Not at all. Japanese has no link whatsoever with English pronunciation of any kind. That's just a coincidence, false cognate you can call it
> - does _yakitsuku _refer to pain ? No. It refers to make the most of an idea, to make it shine (burn an idea) and it also means to make a strong impression or to be etched in one's memory. For example: The scene *burned* into my memory. その光景は私の記憶に*焼きついた* _sono koukei wa watashi no kioku ni *yakitsuita*_
> 
> Thanks again !



Hope it was interesting again


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## ThomasK

I see, great information. I suppose I'll start translating Japanese pretty soon - or begin by reading it ! ;-) 

fire, 5-6: we'd call it _lancering_, the launch, but I could imagine something like _afvuren_, firing off. that's about it, isn't it? 
fire, 7: sparkling is something we would not use in Dutch, but we could use bubbling with enthusiasm. µ
burn, 4: i thought of _appuru _or _wafuru_, which are, I think, words for 'apple' and 'wafer/ waffle', and are a japanisation ;-) of the English pronunciation, if I am not mistaken
burn, 5: I begin to understand; I could imagine something like _in mijn geheugen gebrand _(burnt into my memory), not so common, but not impossible.


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## 涼宮

About 5-6, the word refers specifically to the type of fire/combustion that military affairs or missiles and rifles produce. But the usual example are rockets. I didn't know the word lancering 

By the way, about the worldview you spoke of, yes, Japanese has a very different worldview. Speaking of which, an interesting thing is, Have you ever wondered or known if there exists a language that describes sounds of any kind for very specific things (mimetic/onomatopoeia words)?  That is one of the specialties of my dear Japanese. It has thousands of words to describe sounds which can become a verb. They are hard to translate in many languages, because they're unique. For instance: きらきら _kirakira_、ぎらぎら _giragira_. Kirakira is used to describe the sound of glitter or sparkle. 目をきらきらさせる _me wo kirakira saseru_ his eyes shine. Whereas giragira is used to describe an intensive glitter, something like glare, dazzle or blaze. 目をぎらぎらさせる _me wo giragira saseru_ his eyes are glaring. 
At least those have translation, but there are words to describe even the sound made by a light tool  But, that's for another thread.


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## apmoy70

A couple of additions in Greek:

*Bonfire/campfire:* We don't distinguish between the two; it's simply «πυρά» /pi'ra/ from the feminine Classical noun «πυρὰ» (pū'ră)--> _watch-fire_. Also periphrastically (and a colloquialism), «υπαίθρια*** φωτιά» /i'peθria fo'tça/ (both fem.) lit. _ourdoor fire_.
*To char:* 
1) «Καρβουνιάζω» /karvu'ɲazo/ lit. _to burn something to coal_; from the Classical masculine noun «κάρβων» ('kārbōn), «κάρβω(ου)νον» in Byzantine Greek ('karvonon or 'karvounon, _neuter noun_), «κάρβουνο» /'karvuno/ (neut.) in Modern Greek--> _charcoal, coal_. PIE base *ker-, _heat, fire, to burn_ (cognate with Lat. carbo; Skt. कृष्ण (krsna), _black, dark, burnt_; Eng. hearth).
2) «Απανθρακώνω» /apanθra'kono/ lit. _to carbonize_; from the Classical verb «ἀπανθρακόω/ἀπανθρακῶ» (ăpăntʰrā'kŏō [uncontracted]/ăpăntʰrā'kō [contracted]) and «άπανθρακίζω» (ăpăntʰrā'kīzō)--> _to burn to a cinder_; compound, prefix and preposition «ἀπὸ» (ā'pŏ)--> _finishing, completing_ (PIE base *apo-, _off, away_) + masculine noun «ἄνθραξ» ('āntʰrāks), «άνθρακας» /'anθrakas/ (masc.) in Modern Greek--> _charcoal, coal, Carbon (the chemical element), Anthrax (the bacterial infenction)_ (with obscure etymology).   
*To incinerate:*: «Αποτεφρώνω» /apote'frono/ lit. _to cause to burn to ashes_; from the Classical verb «ἀποτεφρόω/ἀποτεφρῶ» (ăpŏtĕ'pʰrŏō [uncontracted]/ăpŏtĕ'pʰrō [contracted])--> _to cause to burn to ashes, reduce to ashes_; compound, prefix and preposition «ἀπὸ» (ā'pŏ)--> _finishing, completing_ (PIE base *apo-, _off, away_) + feminine noun «τέφρα» ('tĕ'pʰră), /'tefra/ in Modern Greek--> init. _ashes of the funeral pile_, later, _ashes in general_. PIE base *dʰegʰ-, _to burn_; cf. Ger. tag; Eng. day; Dutch dag; Lat./It. favilla; Skt. दहति (dahati), _to roast, burn, scorch_. 
*Cremation:* «Αποτέφρωση» /apo'tefrosi/ (fem.).
*Crematory/Crematorium:* «Αποτεφρωτήριο» /apotefro'tirio/ (neut.) or the Latin loan word «κρεματόριο» /krema'torio/ (neut.).

***Adj. «υπαίθριος, -α, -ο» /i'peθrios i'peθria i'peθrio/ (masc. fem. neut.); Classical adj. «ὑπαίθριος, -ος, -ον» (hŭ'pætʰrīŏs _masc. & fem._/hŭ'pætʰrīŏn _neut._)--> _under the sky, out in the open air, outdoor_. Compound, prefix and preposition «ὑπὸ» (hū'pŏ)--> _under_ (PIE base *upo-, _under, up from under, over_) + Classical masculine noun «αἰθήρ» (æ'tʰēr), «αιθέρας» /e'θeras/ in Modern Greek--> _ether, sky (Homeric heaven)_. PIE base *aidʰ-, _to burn_ (cognate with Skt. एध (edha), _fuel_).


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> Portugese: lots of links with French, I believe, except for the _queimar_. What is the background of that ?


Well, actually seeing the other replies I began to suspect it might be a cognate of _cremar/cramer_ (< L. _cremare_, to cremate). According to this dictionary, that is indeed the source of this word, through the (hypothetical) VL intermediate form *_caimare_.



ThomasK said:


> As for Spanish (and Portuguese):
> 
> I see some parallels, and the same difference as for the roots of fire and big fire. But Portuguese seems more 'fiery' in that it has more (near-)synonyms of _quemar_... Does _arder _have the same meaning in Spanish and Portuguese?


As far as I know, they have exactly the same meaning. Indeed, all the other Spanish and Catalan words and expressions can be found in Portuguese as well, with the same meaning, except for _achicharrar _and_ socorrar_.


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## ThomasK

涼宮 said:


> About 5-6, the word refers specifically to the type of fire/combustion that military affairs or missiles and rifles produce. But the usual example are rockets. I didn't know the word lancering
> 
> By the way, about the worldview you spoke of, yes, Japanese has a very different worldview. Speaking of which, an interesting thing is, Have you ever wondered or known if there exists a language that describes sounds of any kind for very specific things (mimetic/onomatopoeia words)?  That is one of the specialties of my dear Japanese. It has thousands of words to describe sounds which can become a verb. They are hard to translate in many languages, because they're unique. For instance: きらきら _kirakira_、ぎらぎら _giragira_. Kirakira is used to describe the sound of glitter or sparkle. 目をきらきらさせる _me wo kirakira saseru_ his eyes shine. Whereas giragira is used to describe an intensive glitter, something like glare, dazzle or blaze. 目をぎらぎらさせる _me wo giragira saseru_ his eyes are glaring.
> At least those have translation, but there are words to describe even the sound made by a light tool  But, that's for another thread.



As for 5-6, one last time: what is meant is the fire that makes the rocket go, isn't it ? 

_(The onomatopeias are great for research: languages often seem to hear something else. Why don't you create a new thread about the sound of sparkling? I wonder whether we have a sound for that, let alone a verb. maybe the Japanese hear better ! ;-)) )
_


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## kirahvi

In Finnish:

tuli - fire
palaa - to burn (intransitive)
palo or tulipalo - fire (as in burning buildings)
polttaa - to burn (transitive)
sytyttää - to set on fire, to light up
liekki or lieska - flame (_liekki_ is smaller than _lieska_)
nuotio - campfire
kokko - bonfire
kulottaa - to burn forest/grass intentionally for agricultural benefit


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## ThomasK

Are _paloo/ polttaa _synonyms?  Do _sytyttää _and _kulottaa _have a root word, do you think ? And could you find some reason why don't you have some _tuli_-word for campfire or bonfire? (It may just be a mystery, just asking ;-))


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## aruniyan

*Tamil, Fire words


Fire -* thee (To keep away with)

*Fire* - neruppu (Cannot go *near*)

*To Burn* - eri (Not accessible)


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## kirahvi

Sorry, I first listed _palaa_ twice and when I fixed it, I forgot to change the intransitive bit, but now it's fixed. So no, _palaa_ and _polttaa_ aren't synonyms, but they're a transitive/intransitive pair.

There's _kulo_, which used to mean forest fire. For sytyttää, there's _sytyke/sytykkeet_, pl. (or _sytty_ in some parts of Finland), which means small twigs, dry grass or pieces of paper that help you set a fire, stuff that burns easily.

And I have no idea, why there's no trace of _tuli_ in campfire or bonfire. If we speak of fireplaces, we always use _tuli_, though. Eg. _Takassa on tuli_ - There's fire in the fireplace.


Edit: I just remembered, that instead of the word _tuli_, some people say _valkea_. _Valkea_ also means white.


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## ThomasK

Tamil: could you make it clearer, explain the two _fire _words, etc.  ? (I don't quite understand the additions - thanks!)

Finnish: interesting additions, and also interesting is the reference to white (_valkea)_. But then no other words in _kokko _or _nuotio_, are there ? Are there any derivations based on them?


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## kirahvi

ThomasK said:


> Finnish: interesting additions, and also interesting is the reference to white (_valkea)_. But then no other words in _kokko _or _nuotio_, are there ? Are there any derivations based on them?



None that I can come up with.

_Kokko_ used to mean eagle (now it's  _kotka_ in Finnish), but I don't know what, if any, its connection to  bonfires could be. _Kokko_ in the meaning of eagle is used in the Finnish  national epic, Kalevala.

The only verbs that have anything to do with _tuli_ that I can think of at the moment are _tulittaa_ (to fire a gun repeatedly), _tulistua_ (to get angry) and _tuleentua _(to ripen when speaking of crops).


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## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Tamil: could you make it clearer, explain the two _fire _words, etc.  ? (I don't quite understand the additions - thanks!)



There are two commonly used words for Fire and not much difference in  their usage...the additions in brackets are my findings about the  possible literal meaning, ignore it if its not usefull to you.

*Thee *- Fire with flames. (Th/Dh = Keeping with + ee=giving away,  like the English prefix "De") 
*
Neruppu* - Burning hot .


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## 涼宮

ThomasK said:


> As for 5-6, one last time: what is meant is the fire that makes the rocket go, isn't it ?
> 
> _(The onomatopeias are great for research: languages often seem to hear something else. Why don't you create a new thread about the sound of sparkling? I wonder whether we have a sound for that, let alone a verb. maybe the Japanese hear better ! ;-)) )
> _



You could say so. Although it is not limited to rockets, the concept is more for military affairs (weapons), missiles, etc. 

The thread could be about mimetic and onomatopoeia words, but probably the ones with most contributions will be Korean, Japanese and some African languages. It'd be interesting to see how languages describe sounds.


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## LilianaB

Fire is ugnis in Lithuanian, there are several verbs for burn, one of them is sudeginti, or degti. Fire is ogien in Polish, and palic is to burn, similar to the Finnish word, I think.


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## Outsider

LilianaB said:


> Fire is ugnis in Lithuanian [...]


That looks like a cognate of Latin *ignis*, with the same meaning. In the Romance languages this lexeme has generally fallen out of use, although there are (later, learned) cognates of *ignition*. English even has a verb, *ignite*!


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## aruniyan

Outsider said:


> That looks like a cognate of Latin *ignis*, with the same meaning. In the Romance languages this lexeme has generally fallen out of use, although there are (later, learned) cognates of *ignition*. English even has a verb, *ignite*!



the word ignis/agni should be related to light part than the heat of fire, The "gn" sound mostly comes with words that represents knowledge / enlightening.


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## AutumnOwl

*Swedish:*
_*Eld *_- vuur/ fire : what is caused by lightning or is produced by a match, one of the four elements
_*Brinna*_ - branden/ to burn: the verb, referring to what the fire does (not to what it does to people or things)
*Brand* - de brand/ the fire : like the one in London in 1666
*Bränna* - verbranden (in lichterlaaie zetten [set afire, set aflame]/ to burn: the sun can burn our skin, fire can set on fire, and we can burn things (make them disappear, ...)
*Tända eld på något* - set something afire
_*Elda i spisen*_ -light/ have a fire going on in an stove/fireplace
_*Ljuset brinner*_ - the candle is burning
*Soleld* (Gotlandic) - bad case of sunburn
_*Fyr*_ - lighthouse; fire
_*Fyra av en kanon*_ - fire a cannon
*Det tog fyr i gräset *- the grass was set afire/began to burn
_*Brasa*_ - bonfire
*Vårdkase* - signal fire/beacon, in older times a way to warn for danger, http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vårdkase


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

Fire: Ateş (from old Turkic *OD*)
to set fire: Ateşe vermek (to give to the fire)
to burn (itself): *Yan*mak
to burn (something): *Yak*mak
a fire (like a forest fire): *Yangın*
flame: *alev*  (if it's from a Turkic language, it would mean *red house*)

Apart from these, fire had an importance among ancient Turks like it had among many different cultures.

A fire was always present in the middle (ORTA) of the Turks' tent called "YURT".  It was called the heart of the Yurt and it always burned under the equilateral cross (at the top of the yurt) which took the smoke out. It was a sin to throw any liquid to this fire or throw garbage inside it. It was believed that this fire always would burn unless the last of the family perished. This belief even entered the Turkish national anthem.



> *Fear not! For the crimson flag that proudly ripples in this glorious twilight, shall never fade,*
> *Before the last fiery hearth that is ablaze within my nation is extinguished.
> **For that is the star of my nation, and it will forever shine;**
> It is mine; and solely belongs to my valiant nation.*


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## Outsider

AutumnOwl said:


> _*Brasa*_ - bonfire


How interesting! In Spanish and Portuguese *brasa* means "ember". The dictionaries I've looked at say it's of unknown origin.


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## apmoy70

ancalimon said:


> Turkish:
> A fire was always present in the middle (ORTA) of the Turks' tent called "YURT".  It was called the heart of the Yurt and it always burned under the equilateral cross (at the top of the yurt) which took the smoke out. It was a sin to throw any liquid to this fire or throw garbage inside it. It was believed that this fire always would burn unless the last of the family perished. This belief even entered the Turkish national anthem.


In Ancient Greek culture, the central altar in the middle of the house was the «ἑστία» (hĕ'stīă, fem.) /e'stia/ (fem.) in Modern Greek, the focal point of the house where a fire was always kept alive as an offering to the goddess Hestia, protectress of the household. PIE base *wes-, _to dwell, stay_ (cf. Skt. वसति (vasati), _to dwell, abide_; Lat. Vesta). In Modern Greek, metaphorically, the household or the place we live in, is often referred to as «εστία»


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## rusita preciosa

Interesting! It made me think of Russian word *очаг* /otchag/ that means *hearth* (both "home" and "place for making fire") and also* source, beginning*. The etymologic dict. says it came from Turkic languages, but doesn't specify what it meant in these languages.


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## Perseas

rusita preciosa said:


> Interesting! It made me think of Russian word *очаг* /otchag/ that means *hearth* (both "home" and "place for making fire") and also* source, beginning*. The etymologic dict. says it came from Turkic languages, but doesn't specify what it meant in these languages.


You may refer to the Turkish "ocak" which is "τζάκι" in Modern Greek and literally means "fireplace" (e.g.this one). Ηowever, I ' m not sure that it is related to the Greek "εστία".


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## ThomasK

rusita preciosa said:


> Interesting! It made me think of Russian word *очаг* /otchag/ that means *hearth* (both "home" and "place for making fire") and also* source, beginning*. The etymologic dict. says it came from Turkic languages, but doesn't specify what it meant in these languages.



This might lead us too far, but it may be interesting to note that beginnings are described using words referring to either _cradle/ berceau/ (Dutch) wieg _or to heat ...), such as hearth indeed, also *bakermat *in Dutch (the midwife's carpet in Dutch), which implies warmth and affection (_baker _= _baker-mother_). in Dutch we say for example:* de bakermat van de beschaving*, the cradle [lit. midwife's carpet] of civilisation.


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## ancalimon

rusita preciosa said:


> Interesting! It made me think of Russian word *очаг* /otchag/ that means *hearth* (both "home" and "place for making fire") and also* source, beginning*. The etymologic dict. says it came from Turkic languages, but doesn't specify what it meant in these languages.



Ocak means "furnace, house, family, posterity, race, ancestors" and also "January" in Turkish. Didn't know about the "a source, a beginning" meaning but that would coincide with myth about the awakening of Turks. They create a furnace and melt an iron mountain from inside and get out.


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> How do you translate both terms please ? We have had _fire _before, but I wonder about whether any language uses the same stem to refer to the phenomenon, the verbs and the event resulting from fire.
> 
> I see three or four 'aspects':
> - *vuur*/ fire : what is caused by lightning or is produced by a match, one of the four elements
> - *branden*/ to burn: the verb, referring to what the fire does (not to what it does to people or things)
> - *de brand*/ the fire : like the one in London in 1666
> - *verbranden (in lichterlaaie zetten [set afire, set aflame]*/ to burn: the sun can burn our skin, fire can set on fire, and we can burn things (make them disappear, ...)


I see. 1.) Fire produced by match=  Siga'(noun) /   Magdikit or magparikit ( verb) 2.) To burn= sigaan, paliyaban,sunugin sa apoy(burn in fire)   3.) The fire= Sunog/to turn it into action word it has the form "Sunugin".= May sunog sa katabing bayan(There is fire in nearby town)  4.)To burn completely= tupukin    a.) forest in the mountanous areas are completely burned and need to be replanted with trees.= Ang kagubatan sa bulubunduking dako ay lubus na natupok sa sunog/apoy at nangangailangan na muling taniman.


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