# Should have. . .



## JourneyGiRL

He estado leyendo algunos "posts" sobre la traducción de "should have" y la frase todavía me confunde mucho.

Mi frase en inglés es:
_If there was a problem, he should have told us. 

_Mi intento en español:
_Si hubiera un problema, él nos hubiera dicho.

_Gracias


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## SrRdRaCinG

Debío decirnos.

Debería habernos dicho.

Creo que hay otra manera de decir esto, pero eso les dejo a los nativos.


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## richard22

Si había un problema él debería habernos dicho


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## JourneyGiRL

¿De verdad? I am so confused!


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## richard22

Why are you confused?


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## SrRdRaCinG

What exactly confuses you?


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## JourneyGiRL

*If* there was a problem (it isn't for sure). Don't you use the subjunctive?


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## SrRdRaCinG

If there were a problem= si hubiera.


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## JourneyGiRL

OK...gracias por su ayuda


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## richard22

Oh it's true, sorry JG 
Si hubiera un problema él debería habernos dicho


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## JB

If you think in English, "debe" means "should" or "ought", and the translation of the conditional "ïa" ending" is taught as the same (should, ought", so in literal English, "debería" sounds like "should should".

I understand this confusion (if indeed that is what is troubling you), and can just say that it works in Spanish.  Try thinking of it as the way a Southerner might say "I should ought to have done that."

Debería = He should
haber-nos = to have -  us
dicho = told

Debería haber dicho = He should have said
Debería habernos dicho = he should have told us (said to us)

In future, as the previous posts requested, rather than just say you are confused, we can help you better if you clarify what it is that confuses you.

Also, if it is the use of "deber" I suggest you review the wealth of prior threads listed in our WR Dictionary, http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=debe


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## JourneyGiRL

Aha! ¡Muuuchas gracias! Entiendo.


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## SrRdRaCinG

Should have is a tricky phrase. Stick with debería haber+ past participle or simply "deber" in the past tense +infinitivo.


Debiste llamarme-You should have called me.

Deberías haberme llamado-You should have called me.


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## la_machy

JourneyGiRL said:


> He estado leyendo algunos "posts" sobre la traducción de "should have" y la frase todavía me confunde mucho.
> 
> Mi frase en inglés es:
> _If there *were* a problem, he should *would* have told us. _
> 
> Mi intento en español:
> _Si hubiera un problema, él nos hubiera dicho._
> 
> Gracias


 
I think that was your confussion


Saludos


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## Ynez

_Si había un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho.
Si hubo un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho.
Si hubo/había un problema, nos lo tendría que haber dicho.
Si hubo/había un problema, nos lo tenía que haber dicho._

EDIT: "nos" and "lo" could change place, like: _...,debería habérnoslo dicho._

In this sentence we are mixing type 2 and 3 of Conditionals. Authentic type 3 would have been:

I_f there had been a problem, he should have told us

Si hubiera habido un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho._


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## NewdestinyX

"If there 'was'.." is an 'incorrect' but very commonly used way to say -- "if there were..." when using a Type 2 protasis. After that -- the 'then' clause' (apodosis) should be 'conditional' toward future..

If there were/(was) a problem, I would be........ 

Now 'If there was...' is perfectly correct if you're *not* making a *hypothetical* type 2 conditional. If you're referring to a past set of possibilities the outcome of which you don't know but you want to make a suggestion about -- then the original 'mixed conditional' is fine. It's just a little hard to translate to Spanish since in English we actually have more combinations for our conditionals than Spanish does. Spanish has more conjugations but not as many possibilities for conditionals - at least not as natural. In Spanish you can't really 'exactly translate' the sentence that's the subject of this thread. The closest is what Ynez said:

Si hubiera habido un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho.

Ynez: are you saying that 'si había/hubo un problema, debería.....' is 'common' and natural sounding to the spanish ear? There are many hits in Google for 'Sí había... (where the first word is really the word for 'yes' in Spanish) -- I can't filter out the 'sí' from the 'si' to check for commonality.

Grant


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## Ynez

It is possible, Grant. We could find a context to fit it in. I guess the context would be the same as in English.


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## NewdestinyX

Ynez said:


> It is possible, Grant. We could find a context to fit it in. I guess the context would be the same as in English.


Ok.. but not when the context is hypothetical Type 2 -- right? That would be - "si hubiera"

Grant


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## Ynez

That would not be a natural sentence ( I think):

Si hubiera un problema, debería habérnoslo dicho. 

We'd say:

_Si *hay* un problema, debería habérnoslo dicho._


Hmm, maybe what we need is some context for this sentence?


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## NewdestinyX

Ynez said:


> That would not be a natural sentence ( I think):
> 
> Si hubiera un problema, debería habérnoslo dicho.
> 
> We'd say:
> 
> _Si *hay* un problema, debería habérnoslo dicho._
> 
> 
> Hmm, maybe what we need is some context for this sentence?


"Si *hay*... *debería habér* + PP..." -- doesn't make logical timing sense to me at all Ynez. 

A mí me sigue gustando uno de tus originales, Ynez -- _
Si hubiera habido/hubo/había un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho._

Chao,
Grant


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## Ynez

Grant said:
			
		

> Since I'm not native I checked with one of my Spanish friends I often consult. And she said she'd 'never' say that -- "Suena 'horrible'."





"Suena horrible" sounds horrible to me. Did you both have time for deep thinking?

I have thought about it.


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## Ynez

NewdestinyX said:


> A ella le gusta uno de tus originales, Ynez -- _
> Si hubiera habido/hubo/había un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho._



I am afraid I am not interested in knowing what someone who is not reading the whole thread thinks. I wrote that sentence to show a prototypical type 3, nothing else. 

That sentence has one meaning, the other sentences have other meanings.

The poster is not interested in this thread anymore, and neither am I.


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## aztlaniano

NewdestinyX said:


> The closest is what Ynez said:
> 
> Si hubiera habido un problema, nos lo debería haber dicho.


After reflecting on the matter for several hours, and consulting the pillow, I agree.
Use that version, JourneyGiRL.


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## Ynez

aztlaniano, that sentence in English is:

_If there had been a problem, he should have told us._


There are more possibilities. Even though that sentence is the prototypical, there are many other things we can say.


Anyhow, I won't participate again in this thread unless some context is provided.


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## NewdestinyX

Ynez said:


> "Suena horrible" sounds horrible to me. Did you both have time for deep thinking?





Ynez said:


> I am afraid I am not interested in knowing what someone who is not reading the whole thread thinks.


 You're right, Ynez. It was not good policy or manners for me to challenge so hard from another non-forum member's perspective. I have edited the post to show only my opinion. I should have just challenged you directly. Mea culpa y lo siento.

Grant


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## NewdestinyX

Ynez said:


> aztlaniano, that sentence in English is:
> 
> _If there had been a problem, he should have told us._
> 
> There are more possibilities. Even though that sentence is the prototypical, there are many other things we can say.
> 
> Anyhow, I won't participate again in this thread unless some context is provided.


Context: No problems were expected and one arose. The speaker is frustrated, in the present, that he wasn't told about it. The context is very clear from the sentence to me.

The problem is -- is that it's a bad English sentence. Mixed conditionals are always substandard sentences, in English or Spanish. Lack of context isn't the issue here - poor syntax is the problem. And as I said earlier - the sentence with 'hubiera habido' is the closest translation for English's 'If there was..' in the mixed conditional situation where 'should have' follows. But this is one of those instances where we may have to agree to disagree.


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