# Pronunciation - -ado as -ao



## Orpington

Hola a todos

I was wondering how common it is to pronounce -ado as -ao for example comprado- comprao or cansado- cansao.

Is it looked down upon? Or just how everyone says it? Would it be considered posh to pronounce the D?

Gracias


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## aztlaniano

It's more prevalent in southern Spain, the Canaries and the Caribbean. 
Some people might look down on it, but everything's relative.
(The King of Spain does it and -don't tell anybody- I look down on him for it.)


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## malidiera

I think in Spain is quite common to say -ao, however the way you say it depends a lot on the region where you come from. I come from the north, so we say -ado, but so fast that the "d" almost doesnt sound, so it is like a kind of mixture between -ado and -ao. 
In the south, the -ao is more obvious. But if -ao it is used making a big emphasis in the "a" or pronounced slow and clear, it sounds to me a bit not so educated.
Whatever, as a non-native speaker, I would not use it at all.

Ah, and I dont think it sounds posh to pronounce the "d", it is more the whole sentence pronunciation that ou have to look at for that. Usually posh way of talking remarks "s", specially at the end of the word, and it uses some particular pet words (such as "o sea") quite a lot.

hope it helps


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## Agró

No está tan clara la división norte-sur. Yo también soy del norte y pronuncio [-ao], a veces incluso [-au], en una única sílaba entonces, con 'u' semivocal. Los catalanes suelen pronunciar muy claramente la 'd' en '-ado' cuando hablan español, y también están en el norte; los asturianos, en cambio, no (es mi impresión, no lo puedo asegurar).


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## jmx

aztlaniano said:


> It's more prevalent in southern Spain


Common misconception! It's prevalent in *all* of Spain in colloquial speech. Maybe there is a regional difference in *formal* speech, but it's hard to say. I perceive the "full" 'd' pronunciation in -ado as typical of southern Spaniards who want to sound formal.



malidiera said:


> I come from the north, so we say -ado, [...]Usually posh way of talking remarks "s", specially at the end of the word [..]


Are you from Madrid? Otherwise I don't understand how pronouncing the final 's' could be _posh_.


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## dross

In Cuba it's the norm, and some coastal areas of Mexico, too. In inland Mexico it would sound weird and affected.


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## malidiera

jmartins said:


> Common misconception! It's prevalent in *all* of Spain in colloquial speech. Maybe there is a regional difference in *formal* speech, but it's hard to say. I perceive the "full" 'd' pronunciation in -ado as typical of southern Spaniards who want to sound formal.
> 
> Are you from Madrid? Otherwise I don't understand how pronouncing the final 's' could be _posh_.



No, I am not from Madrid, as I said before I am from the north part of Spain, but it is true that I have studied college in Madrid. 
And maybe I am not making myself well understood, but I didnt say pronouncing, I said remarking, I mean, making a special stress on it.

Anyways, that is just my perception. It is very interesting to read all your opinions.


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## jmx

malidiera said:


> I said remarking, I mean, making a special stress on it.


Right, that is typical of the Madrid upper classes, or of people influenced by them.


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## Orpington

Gracias por las respuestas!


pues si quiero pronunciar las palabras como los españoles.. mejor decir cansao? con un poquitito de D?


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## aztlaniano

Orpington said:


> pues si quiero pronunciar las palabras como los españoles.. mejor decir cansao? con un poquitito de D?


Which ones? If you speak with the King, "cansao" is fine. (Of course he was born in Italy and raised in Portugal).
But seriously, depends on with whom you're conversing. If you are at a job interview, use the D, if you're scoring some hash, don't.


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## Orpington

normal people. like the woman at eroski or my flatmates or whatever x


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## XiaoRoel

El uso de -_ao_ por -_ado_ está *excluído de la lengua formal*, y fuera de los lugares en que se usa coloquialmente, *fuera de esas zonas, denota hablar chulesco, como de bajos fondos*.


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## jmx

Orpington said:


> normal people. like the woman at eroski or my flatmates or whatever x


If you're a foreigner, it's safer to use the "orthographic pronunciation" recommended in teaching books, at least in the beginning. Once you feel confident enough, you could try features of "real Spanish".



XiaoRoel said:


> El uso de -_ao_ por -_ado_ está *excluído de la lengua formal*, y fuera de los lugares en que se usa coloquialmente, *fuera de esas zonas, denota hablar chulesco, como de bajos fondos*.


Como he dicho antes, los lugares donde se dice así coloquialmente son TODOS. A no ser que te refieras al 'castrapo', que no conozco y desde luego no creo que sea en lo que estaba pensando quien abrió el hilo. 

Lo de "hablar chulesco" sólo puedes haberlo sacado de la radio y TV hecha en Madrid.


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## caniho

Orpington said:


> Hola a todos
> 
> I was wondering how common it is to pronounce -ado as -ao for example comprado- comprao or cansado- cansao.
> 
> Is it looked down upon? Or just how everyone says it? Would it be considered posh to pronounce the D?
> 
> Gracias



Here in the South, in my idiolect we alternate between the two pronunciations in normal conversation, although the -ao form is probably the most common and the other is the marked out as more formal, posh or affectionate, depending on the person and the circumstances.


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## PABLO DE SOTO

aztlaniano said:


> It's more prevalent in southern Spain, the Canaries and the Caribbean.
> Some people might look down on it, but everything's relative.
> (The King of Spain does it and -don't tell anybody- I look down on him for it.)


 

Not in the Canaries.
In Canary Islands the sound, even in colloquial registers, is ado.


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## anam

jmartins said:


> It's prevalent in *all* of Spain in colloquial speech. Maybe there is a regional difference in *formal* speech, but it's hard to say.



True. Ok, maybe only in peninsular Spain plus the Balearic Islands.



Orpington said:


> pues si quiero pronunciar las palabras como los españoles..



Querido inglés... "nunca" podrás pronunciar el "ao" como los espańoles  Seriamente, lo principal es que se te entienda asi que pronuncia la "d" desde el principio, sobre todo si no oyes la diferencia entre las dos "d" de "dado". Con el tiempo, una vez que la oigas, ya iras suavizando la segunda "d".



XiaoRoel said:


> El uso de -_ao_ por -_ado_ está *excluído de la lengua formal*, y fuera de los lugares en que se usa coloquialmente, *fuera de esas zonas, denota hablar chulesco, como de bajos fondos*.



Esto será sacado de algún diccionario viejo, pero cuando yo estudiaba en el colegio, se me dijo que la Real Academia estaba estudiando aceptar la forma "ao" para terminaciones como "cansao", etc.


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## XiaoRoel

> Esto será sacado de algún diccionario viejo, pero cuando yo estudiaba en el colegio, se me dijo que la Real Academia estaba estudiando aceptar la forma "ao" para terminaciones como "cansao", etc.


La Academia está muy desnortada pero no creo que piensen en escándalo tal.
Repito, _fuera de las variedades del español que usan sistemáticamente la caída de_ /d/ intervocálica que inicia la última sílaba de la palabra: *tós* por _todos_, *casao* por _casado_, *na* por _nada_, *quea* por _queda_, etc.; *fuera de estas zonas suena extremadamente vulgar e inculto.* 
En _niveles *más formales *_de lengua_, no existe_ el fenómeno, como tampoco existe en la _*escritura* no costumbrista_, _*incluso en las variedades* del español que tienen la caída de esta /d/ como una de sus características diferenciadoras_.


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## Orpington

anam said:


> Querido inglés... "nunca" podrás pronunciar el "ao" como los espańoles  Seriamente, lo principal es que se te entienda asi que pronuncia la "d" desde el principio, sobre todo si no oyes la diferencia entre las dos "d" de "dado". Con el tiempo, una vez que la oigas, ya iras suavizando la segunda "d".



Haha yeah I doubt I'll ever be able to pronounce it correctly. But I do hear the difference between the two d's! To me the second one is more like the 'th' sound in the. But more d-ish..


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## Vidar1984

anam said:


> Querido inglés... "nunca" podrás pronunciar el "ao" como los espańoles  Seriamente, lo principal es que se te entienda asi que pronuncia la "d" desde el principio, sobre todo si no oyes la diferencia entre las dos "d" de "dado". Con el tiempo, una vez que la oigas, ya iras suavizando la segunda "d".


 
I disagree with the idea that non-native Spanish speakers are incapable of acheiving native pronunciation.  While I'm far beneath the vocabulary level of a native, I've often had Latinos ask me what part of Spain I was from, and I'm not from Spain.  Born and raised in the USA, never been to a Spanish-speaking country, and I don't think I'm unique in being a quick learner when it comes to pronunciation.  Whether or not we _should_ try to sound like native speakers is an entirely different issue, but I take argument with the case that native English speakers are incapable of learning how to speak like the Spanish natives.


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## emmanuelmaggiori

Hi! I strongly recommend you not to skip that 'd' as it would be a non-standard pronunciation (I mean, you will not listen to that on TV).

I agree with Vidar1984, you *can* learn how to pronounce Spanish correctly. I can help you with some phonetic tips on the articulation of 'd' sounds in Spanish:

First of all, /d/ is one phoneme in Spanish. It has different allophones or different articulations within the same phoneme, but if you choose incorrectly among these allophones you'll never be misunderstood, but you'll sound foreigner.
The most common allophone for /d/ is [ð̞]. That sound is an approximant consonant. In other words, it's the same sound as in 'the' or 'they' in English, but it's pronounced in a relaxed way, and your tongue won't actually touch teeth, it will get close to them. If it's difficult for you to pronounce it, simply use English [ð] (the one of 'the'). You won't sound that weird and it's often used to emphasise. 
The other allophone is the same used for 'd' in English 'doctor'. Spanish speakers only use it after a pause and after 'l' and 'n' (which are articulated in the same position as 'd' in 'doctor'). 

So, whenever you start a sentence use [d] and after 'l' or 'n'. In any other case (or in every case if don't want to pay attention to the other less common allophone) use English [ð] ('the'). When you get used to that, try relaxing the articulation of [ð] avoiding the contact of the articulators, and start introducing [d] in the cases I mentioned before. That way you would have a perfect pronunciation!

How it helps...


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## XiaoRoel

La /d/ puede tener varias realizaciones:
1. [*d*] *oclusiva* *dental* *sonora* (_la sonoridad es un rasgo que deben cuidar los nativos de inglés y alemán_ y es lo que diferencia [*d*] de [*t*]).
Esta realización se da en posición inicial absoluta o tras /l/ o /n/.
2. [*đ*] dentointerdental fricativa sonora, la diferencia con la anterior está en la fricación suave y en la posición de la lengua tocando suavemente y rápidamente los dientes- En pronunciacions enfáticas se pude pronunciar como oclusiva. No es como la /th/ inglesa, ya que la /d/ fricativa española es menos interdental, mas relajada y más breve.
Sus posiciones son: intervocálica, inicial de sílaba interior entre vocal y consonante o entre consonante y vocal, final de sílaba interior.
3. [*đ*] en _final de palabra_, que en pronunciaciones no cuidadas y en variantes dialectales puede llegar a [*ø*], es un sonido mu relajado.
4. [*đ*] > [*đ*] > [*ø*]. Es el proceso de los participios en -*ado*. etc. desde una pronunciación _cuidada a una coloquial_, vulgar o rústica. En estos participios y su pronunciación cuenta mucho el *contexto situacional* y el tipo de nivel de lengua que requiere. _Navarro Tomás_ organizaba así los datos: forma culta *-ađo*, semiculta -*ađo*, familiar -*ao*, vulgar -*ạo*, rústica -*ạu*.


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## Istriano

emmanuelmaggiori said:


> First of all, /d/ is one phoneme in Spanish. It has different allophones or different articulations within the same phoneme, but if you choose incorrectly among these allophones you'll never be misunderstood, but you'll sound foreigner.



In *Colombia *and many parts of Central America (*El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua*), the softening of b,d,g to approximants occurs only intervocalically:  

*beber *[be'βer] 

In all other cases occlusive nature is retained:

*amable *[a'mable]  (not [a'maβle]).
*el burro* [elˈburro] (not [elˈβurro]).

Colombian Spanish is one of the clearest/purest accents of Latin American Spanish, the easiest to understand, and they favor occlusives and not approximants.

So, for foreign learners trying to get a nice, but not too difficult international Spanish accent, there is a little hint: you can use approximants only between vowels, and you can keep occlusive pronunciation in all other positions. 
In some accent-sensitive regions (Madrid?) this might give you away as a foreigner, but in regions where accents spoken are close to those from Colombia/Venezuela (Canary Islands) people will find it cute.

Most Spanish speakers learning Italian neglect the open and closed vowels in Italian (even tho' this distinction is phonetic), so we can neglect the difference between occlusives and approximants
in all situations except between vowels (since this difference is not even phonetically significant but only allophonic, and not even universal across all Spanish speaking countries).

Source from Google books


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## gregohp

Jo, de lo que se entera uno por aquí 

Yo soy del norte (País Vasco), creo que no soy de los bajos fondos pero aun así se me escapan muchas palabras terminadas en "ao" (o incluso "au", como ya se ha dicho por aquí).

Ahm  y también creo que pronuncio todas las eses correctamente y aunque no soy barriobajero, tampoco soy pijo 

Saludos,

Grego.


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## Ibermanolo

En mi caso y en mi zona creo que normalmente se pronuncia una d muy suave y en otros casos la omites por completo o la pronuncias completamente, es decir, que no hay regla fija.

Como algunos vascos y navarros han dicho a mí la terminación -ao/-au también me suena muy típica de aquellas tierras del norte.

Al que dice que a no ser que seas un yonqui del pozo del Tío Raimundo no es normal omitir la pronunciación de la "d"..... sin palabras.

La pronunciación -ío en lugar de -ido sí que suena más vulgar. La de -ao en lugar de -ado es muy común y aceptada.


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## XiaoRoel

> Al que dice que a no ser que seas un yonqui del pozo del Tío Raimundo no es normal omitir la pronunciación de la "d"..... sin palabras.


Te pediría que leyeses con atención lo que escribí:


> *fuera de las variedades del español que usan sistemáticamente* la caída de /d/ intervocálica… *fuera de estas zonas *suena extremadamente vulgar e inculto.


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## mhp

For a bid of fun, also look at a previous discussion: En Bilbado el pescao como el bacalao es muy salao


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## kidika

Orpington said:


> Hola a todos
> 
> I was wondering how common it is to pronounce -ado as -ao for example comprado- comprao or cansado- cansao.
> 
> Is it looked down upon? Or just how everyone says it? Would it be considered posh to pronounce the D?
> 
> Gracias


In my area, it is very common to leave out the "d". But the "d" would only sound posh if you stressed it too much, I don´t think anyone would think that you´re a "pijo" just because you pronounce the "d" though
I agree that non native speakers should try to pronounce it unless their accent is very good. 
My language teacher at secondary school told us that the safest way to pronounce it was neither of both possibilities mentioned above and that we should try to pronounce a soft "d", similar to the one in "the" (sorry, can´t write phonetic symbols here, but someone has done that. in one of the previous posts). I would strongly recommend you that pronunciation. I try to pronounce it like that all the time, especially in more formal contexts, but when I am more relaxed, I leave out the "d" sometimes and I notice I have afterwards 
Hope it helps a little


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## verence

I suggest everyone who is learning Spanish to pronounce the "d". 

When you've been speaking Spanish for some years, maybe you'll have said "cansado" so many times that you have become lazy as many of we have, and you start saying "cansao". But there's always time to speak the wrong way; start by speaking the right way.


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## elirlandes

I find that in Andalucia, many foreigners purposefully drop the "d" to say "-ao" and it generally sounds like a forced effort to pick up a local accent - a bit like a Spaniard in Yorkshire saying "I'm going down to t'pub, by gum". Best to learn to pronounce using standard pronounciation, and allow yourself to pick up localisms naturally than force them in.


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## JorgeHoracio

No, it's not impossible for a foreigner to sound like a native, but it's very hard.
And it's better to sound like a foreigner than to sound like a foreigner who's pretending he's a native...

As you can see, there are many subtleties involved: situation, region, context ...

In many LatinAmerican countries these d's are not usually omitted in moderately cultivated speech, even in very informal contexts. In Argentina the omission is restricted to some rural or marginal areas.
You'll find it in tango: "Decí por Dios qué me has dao que estoy tan cambiao ...", but nowadays you hear it only very rarely in the Buenos Aires area.


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## caniho

elirlandes said:


> I find that in Andalucia, many foreigners purposefully drop the "d" to say "-ao" and it generally sounds like a forced effort to pick up a local accent - a bit like a Spaniard in Yorkshire saying "I'm going down to t'pub, by gum". Best to learn to pronounce using standard pronounciation, and allow yourself to pick up localisms naturally than force them in.



As has been said, the pronunciation -ao is not a localism  neither in Andalucia nor in Spain.


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## caniho

JorgeHoracio said:


> No, it's not impossible for a foreigner to sound like a native, but it's very hard.
> And it's better to sound like a foreigner than to sound like a foreigner who's pretending he's a native...



I think you should concentrate on what you want to say, and try to sound clear without thinking too much of the accent. That way the accent that will come naturally is the one you have been exposed to and practised the most. Other than that, trying to imitate natives is the only way I know of learning languages.


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## duvija

emmanuelmaggiori (typical Italian name for Argentina) gave a clear explanation. 
Just a touch: the [d] is not 'delta'. Delta is a fricative but Sp. /d/ intervocally, is an approximant (as he says in his message). If you want to write it phonetically, it's a d with a cross horizontal bar (cannot find it now in my keyboard, ugh). 

It's true that the lenition of intervocallic /d/ happens in all Spanish speaking countries. All. Seriously. With more or less friction, depending on the area. We all do it, without even noticing it. 
The pronunciation of 'd' as a stop, sounds foreign (albeit comprehensible). 

As Emmanuel says, the stop is only used in 'phrase initial' (not word, because Sp. words get smashed together, therefore you syllabify the whole phrase as if it were/was a single word), and after l/n, meaning in syllable initial position. 
It doesn't harden after s/r. And Sp. doesn't have too many consonant final sounds, anyways (add 'z' for Spain, and some rarely pronounced 'd' all over. Uh, and one or two words ending in 'j', mostly pronounced as a [s] or ).

It's not an easy sound for Eng. speakers. It lenition happens to the 3 voiced stops (b/d/g), but d is notable because of the verbal participles.

In the Caribean area, it's totally lost. Sometimes there is 'hipercorrection', so for a type of food called 'asopao' in Puerto Rico, the snobish foreigners say 'asopado', which is pretty hilarious. Same with the port of El Callao in Perú. It's funny to hear 'callado'.

If you're trying to use a perfect syntax, you'll screw up in the phonology/phonetics of your second lg. And viceversa. It's hard to become a 'native'. 

saludos


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## inib

Orpington said:


> Hola a todos
> 
> I was wondering how common it is to pronounce -ado as -ao for example comprado- comprao or cansado- cansao.
> 
> Is it looked down upon? Or just how everyone says it? Would it be considered posh to pronounce the D?
> 
> Gracias


Hi there, I couldn't give you statistics as to what percentage of Spanish speakers pronounce "ao" or "ado", and by now you've heard a load of opinions.My "profe" was from near "Salamanca" and was an expert in grammar as well as pronunciation. I've always followed her teachings in grammar and don't mind standing out here in the north of Spain for knowing when I've got to say "si yo hubiera" instead of the frequent "si yo habría".
 But on the other hand, I have picked up (over 25 years) the local tendencies to pronounce "ao" instead of "ado", to pronounce "ll" the same as "y". I'm not proud of it, but it has become natural.  It was a gradual process and I don't think you can/should do it artificially. Now my  local friends sometimes tease me saying that I'm the only one capable of pronouncing the "ll" if I really want to. It's true, but I don't use it much around here.
I personally believe that it is better to learn things the right way, and then digress, but I've also been told that I was obviously a foreigner just because of how correctly I spoke (accent apart).
¿Conclusions?


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## duvija

inib said:


> I personally believe that it is better to learn things the right way, and then digress, but I've also been told that I was obviously a foreigner just because of how correctly I spoke (accent apart).
> ¿Conclusions?


 
Absolutely right! And the only people who know the grammar of a language, are the foreigners. They had to learn the rules. The native speakers have intuitions, and don't need rules.

saludos


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## Istriano

Intervocalic d is [ð̞] and not [d] (even in Colombia and El Salvador where they have [d] in ''cerdo, verde '' ), so you may think of this sound as silent


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## duvija

Istriano said:


> Intervocalic d is [ð̞] and not [d] (even in Colombia and El Salvador where they have [d] in ''cerdo, verde '' ), so you may think of this sound as silent


 
I once recorded myself in fast speech, using the words 'abogado' and 'ahogado' in context. Much to my surprise, they were identical. And the real pronunciation I got?:  [ awáw ] 


saludos


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## duvija

Sorry, it flew away. 
I did the spectrograms of abogado/ahogado, and there's were I found the [awáw] business.

elisa


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## DeMichelis

It's so vulgar and 'horrendous' to drop the 'd' (e.g. in 'cansado'), even in informal conversations in most parts of Latinamerica.
Please, always say 'cansado' and *never speak bad Spanish when trying to sound like a native.
*It's like me saying 'We _didn't _have _no _internet' pretending to be a native


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## duvija

I knew you was smart.
Of course, if you don't know very well a language, keep to the books. It's safer. Hilarious, but safer.

Just in case, it's not 'horrendous' to drop the 'd'. Listen to talk shows on the radio and then tell me. Or record yourself and do a spectrogram. I bet ...

saludos


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## Istriano

The only time I've heard the -ao pronunciation is in PuertoRican and Cuban songs.
In Colombian and Mexican soap operas (_novelas_) they never drop the intervocalic -d-.


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## DeMichelis

duvija said:


> I knew you was smart.
> Just in case, it's not 'horrendous' to drop the 'd'. Listen to talk shows on the radio and then tell me. Or record yourself and do a spectrogram. I bet ...
> 
> saludos



Here, if you say 'ao' instead of 'ado' sounds like a foreigner(as well as most part of southamerica and mexico), so you're never gonna hear 'that kind' of bad Spanish in my country even in lower social classes, where it might be heard other kinds of bad Spanish.

*To sum up, it's bad Spanish and only common in Central America (except in Mexico) and some parts of Spain.

*


Istriano said:


> The only time I've heard the -ao pronunciation is in PuertoRican and Cuban songs.
> In Colombian and Mexican soap operas (_novelas_) they never drop the intervocalic -d-.


'Cause it's vulgar


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## duvija

DeMichelis said:


> .
> 
> *To sum up, it's bad Spanish and only common in Central America (except in Mexico) and some parts of Spain.*
> 
> 
> 'Cause it's vulgar


 
I'm not sure how to tell you that Mexico is not in Central America.

saludos


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## duvija

Istriano said:


> The only time I've heard the -ao pronunciation is in PuertoRican and Cuban songs.
> In Colombian and Mexican soap operas (_novelas_) they never drop the intervocalic -d-.


 

Sorry, when I listen to telenovelas, I have pencil and paper in hand, and sometimes a recorder. They do drop it, unless they are speaking very slowly.

 We cannot confuse slow speech with 'allegro' (Harris' description, not mine). It's beyond written vs. spoken, and surprisingly so.


saludos


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## inib

duvija said:


> I'm not sure how to tell you that Mexico is not in Central America.
> 
> saludos


 This might be erased because it's a geography question, not a language one. Is it, then, a great misconception on my behalf that Mexico is Central America, or have I missed some subtle sarcasm or nuance?
I hope you won't all come down on me like a ton of bricks, because my question is sincere.
Saludos


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## duvija

Well, it depends. In the USA many groups consider North America anything up here, and then 'from Mexico to the South' as the other one.  I'm not kidding. The names are just that, names. 

If we look at it geopolitically/geolinguistically, then Mexico falls with all the other countries to the South (and not only with Central America, of course).
No one says the continents have a physical reality (not even the geographers, I hope). Why not define them linguistically, or whatever each discipline wants to use?

saludos


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## DeMichelis

duvija said:


> I'm not sure how to tell you that Mexico is not in Central America.
> 
> saludos


Oh sorry, but I think if you hear that Mexico is Central or North America, you don't have to mind because it depends (like you said) on the context (in this case, Mexico, as Spanish speakers, allows me to say that is part of Central America) 

Regards.

PD: you're form Uruguay, right? great world cup, Celestes!! haha


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## duvija

¡Forlán pa' todo el mundo!


saludos


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## mhp

inib said:


> This might be erased because it's a geography question, not a language one. Is it, then, a great misconception on my behalf that Mexico is Central America, or have I missed some subtle sarcasm or nuance?
> I hope you won't all come down on me like a ton of bricks, because my question is sincere.
> Saludos



This is a general misconception among most people from Spain. Mexico is definitely in North America and is considered as such in the United States. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America


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## inib

Thanks for the info. I've taken note.


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## obz

mhp said:


> This is a general misconception among most people from Spain. Mexico is definitely in North America and is considered as such in the United States. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America




Try explaining that to a Canadian some time....


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## earcut

mhp said:


> This is a general misconception among most people from *Spain*. Mexico is definitely in North America and is considered as such in the United States. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America



Istriano welcome new home. 

And for the post subject. Someone agrees bisyllabic words never get the "d" dropped? Cado, dado, fado...


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## PABLO DE SOTO

earcut said:


> Istriano welcome new home.
> 
> And for the post subject. Someone agrees bisyllabic words never get the "d" dropped? Cado, dado, fado...


 
En Andalucía si puede eliminarse la d en palabras bisilábicas como "lado"


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## duvija

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> En Andalucía si puede eliminarse la d en palabras bisilábicas como "lado"


 

Yes, and that's the reason we (platenses) do the same. Uruguay received Spanish immigrants from all over, but mostly from Andalucía and Canarias. And they won the interdialect wars... It's our inheritance. (no 'z/c', no 'vosotros', etc.)

saludos


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## earcut

Interesante. Hice la pregunta porque no estaba seguro de no haber pronunciado yo mismo alguna vez "Tira el dao de una vez". Más tarde me di cuenta de un casi seguro contraejemplo "Ahí le has dao". Lo que sí que no me imagino es a alguien hablando del fao portugués o diciendo que tiene prisa porque dejó el coche aparcao en un vao.
Al escribir fao acabo de recordar que antes llamabamos así al fuera de banda futbolero. Hay un palabreru lleonés que lo recoge. Pero esto es otra rama por la que no debo irme.


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## jmx

Cuando una palabra acaba en -ado pero no corresponde al sufijo verbal, yo creo que en general se identifica como si lo fuera y también se elide la -d-, en los mismos territorios donde se hace para el participio, es decir, en todos los de lengua castellana nativa de la Península Ibérica. Yo desde luego digo "al lao de ...", pero en cambio no me reconozco diciendo "jugar a los daos"... depende pues de cada palabra concreta. Lo de Canarias me cuesta creerlo, ... debe ser la influencia portuguesa.


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## PABLO DE SOTO

jmartins said:


> Cuando una palabra acaba en -ado pero no corresponde al sufijo verbal, yo creo que en general se identifica como si lo fuera y también se elide la -d-, en los mismos territorios donde se hace para el participio, es decir, en todos los de lengua castellana nativa de la Península Ibérica. Yo desde luego digo "al lao de ...", pero en cambio no me reconozco diciendo "jugar a los daos"... depende pues de cada palabra concreta. Lo de Canarias me cuesta creerlo, ... debe ser la influencia portuguesa.


 
http://acceda.ulpgc.es/bitstream/10553/3993/1/0234349_00004_0024.pdf.

Hay estudios que afirman que hay dos zonas en Canarias, una con pérdida de la d y otra con mantenimiento, siendo las de mantenimiento el norte de Tenerife y toda Gran Canaria, de donde yo procedo.
El enlace que añado yo mantiene otra postura distinta y afirma que esa división no es tan clara y que en zonas como la capital de Gran Canaria se dan todo tipo de fórmulas para -ado- que van desde la elisión completa, a la pronunciación plena pasando por la pronunciación relajada de la d.
Si alguien está interesado ahí tiene el enlace.


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## duvija

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> http://acceda.ulpgc.es/bitstream/10553/3993/1/0234349_00004_0024.pdf.
> 
> Buen estudio. Gracias.
> 
> saludos


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## costacalma

Orpington said:


> Gracias por las respuestas!
> 
> 
> pues si quiero pronunciar las palabras como los españoles.. mejor decir cansao? con un poquitito de D?


 jajaja!!!! mi consejo es que pronuncies ado, es decir correctamente si no probablemente sonarás un poco raro, el ao sale cuando hablas rápido y con fluidez, es como el wanna, gonna, gotta de los americanos, en un estadounidense suena natural, sin embargo para alguien que esté aprendiendo inglés y hable despacito lo mejor es decir want to...


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## horsewishr

costacalma said:


> jajaja!!!! mi consejo es que pronuncies ado, es decir correctamente si no probablemente sonarás un poco raro, el ao sale cuando hablas rápido y con fluidez, es como el wanna, gonna, gotta de los americanos, en un estadounidense suena natural, sin embargo para alguien que esté aprendiendo inglés y hable despacito lo mejor es decir want to...



Great comparison.  It really sounds awful when non-natives say _wanna, gonna, gotta_


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## Istriano

horsewishr said:


> .  It really sounds awful when non-natives say _wanna, gonna, gotta_



Most Americans wouldn't agree with you.
 When in Rome, do the as Romans do. 

I use them all the time (just like I pronounce_ innernet, bu(tt)on_ and _beaudiful_ and not _internet_, _button _or _beautiful _with a hard British T).


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## duvija

If you want the 'rule' for that, (would this be another thread?)

1) the 't' disappears after a stressed syllable ending in a nasal. (of course you may change 'stressed syllable' for 'stressed vowel in a syllable, but...) Torono, Sacrameno
2) Intervocalically it may become a glottal stop - when normally spelled with a double tt [bo?le]
3) Otherwise, it becomes a tap (almost an [r] sound)

saludos


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## inib

Duvija, I like your explanations. They are clear and to the point. I'm hoping to count on you, because while phonetics fascinate me deeply, I'm self-taught at my own risk, and only know the very basics. May I pm you, should I require any future enlightening?
Saludos y gracias por adelantado.


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## duvija

Of course! we should ask people in this forum if they are interested in some phonetic/phonological explanations about stuff in general. Sometimes I don't know whether to 'tell', or shut up.

saludos


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