# All dialects: very, a lot, many, a great deal



## djara

I always wondered why Arabic dialects have so many different ways of expressing these basic concepts.
In Tunisian Arabic we say برشه or برشا [barsha]; it's our signature tune in the Levant!
In Algerian بالزّاف [bizzaaf]
In Libyan هلبا or هلبة [halba]
Maybe other native speakers wish to contribute. Thanks.


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## Nikola

In Morocco also bizzaaf.


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## Mahaodeh

In Levantine I believe it's كتير, in Iraq they sometimes use كثير (pronounced chitheer - _ch_ as in child, _th_ as in thank) but mostly hwaaya هواية (I have no clue where it comes from), I've heard people in the Gulf region say واجد or وايد.


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## yasmeena

Mahaodeh said:


> In Levantine I believe it's كتير


True


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## clevermizo

djara said:


> I always wondered why Arabic dialects have so many different ways of expressing these basic concepts.



Basic terms can be subject to more change over time because they are more frequently used. Given the right amount of time, geographic separation, and frequency, these words often show a lot of variability. Compare how many ways there are to say "want" or "go" even. 



> In Tunisian Arabic we say برشه or برشا [barsha].


I've always wondered - do you know the origin of _barsha_? Is it originally a Berber word? Some contraction of other Arabic words?


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## cherine

In Egypt, we say: ketiir كتير , and sometimes kotaar ناس كتير - ناس كتار
There's also yaama ياما
(sometimes also ketiir yaama  )



djara said:


> In Algerian بالزّاف [bizzaaf]


In Egypt we sometimes say bezzoofa بالزوفة but it's not a very common word, I only remembered it when I saw the Algerian word.


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## flowerangel

in sudan we say كتير and sometimes we add the word شديد to make it even more meaningful,, كتير شديد so much


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## djara

clevermizo said:


> I've always wondered - do you know the origin of _barsha_? Is it originally a Berber word? Some contraction of other Arabic words?


Me too. In Lisan al-Arab there is a noun "al-barshaa2": a (large) group of people, a crowd. Also an adjective "arDun barshaa2" (land with plenty of grass). As you can see, both the noun and the adjective refer to the idea of a large number and a large quantity. 
This is a mere interpretation. I have no idea how this notion is expressed in Berber.


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## rose-1

In my country we say: واجد، كثير، وايد بالكوم


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## MarcB

clevermizo said:


> I've always wondered - do you know the origin of _barsha_? Is it originally a Berber word? Some contraction of other Arabic words?


Although Tunisian has some Berber words it has the least in comparison with the rest of North Africa.


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## clevermizo

djara said:


> Me too. In Lisan al-Arab there is a noun "al-barshaa2": a (large) group of people, a crowd. Also an adjective "arDun barshaa2" (land with plenty of grass). As you can see, both the noun and the adjective refer to the idea of a large number and a large quantity.
> This is a mere interpretation. I have no idea how this notion is expressed in Berber.



I should've looked in a dictionary first. That makes perfect sense.


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## elroy

In Palestinian Arabic, besides كتير (_ktiir_), we say ملان (_malaan_) and بلايا (_balaaya_).  The latter is Galilean; I don't think I've ever heard people from Jerusalem use it.


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## Reema

In Saudi Arabic (Najdi Dialect), it is  حيل  (hail) مَرَّة (marrah)  and بِالهَبَل (bilhabal).


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## juventino

In the Libyan dialect we have هلبا and واجد


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## juventino

MarcB said:


> Although Tunisian has some Berber words it has the least in comparison with the rest of North Africa.



Actually, I would disagree since as far as I know, Berber doesn't influence the Libyan dialect at all


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## Imad Net

Hi,
In Algerian Arabic, generally, we use _Bazzaaf_ *(بزّاف)*, but we use also in the east of Algeria, _Yaasser_ *(ياسر)* (pronounced like the Arabic name Yasser, eg : Yasser Arafat)
In the far east of Algeria, they use _Barcha_* (برشة) *(like in Tunisia)

Bonjour,
En Algérie, généralement, on utilise _Bazzaaf_ *(بزّاف) *(on le prononce_ Bezzèf_ en français), mais, on utilise aussi à l'est d'Algérie, _Yaasser_ *(ياسر)* (on le prononce _Yèsser_ en français), et aussi, on utilise, _Barcha_ *(برشة) *(comme en Tunisie) 

à vous...


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## ayed

In Badawi Najdian dialect:
*واجد* 
*راهي* 
*كثير*


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## squeezed90

In shami: kteer كتير
In egyptian: 2awi قوي
In Emirati (U.A.E): wayed واجد


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## clevermizo

Does any known dialect use the word حفنة? (Literally, a handful or a scoopful). This is the word used in Maltese and I was curious if its use could be corroborated elsewhere.


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## WadiH

We use it. It's a FuS7a word, anyway.

I'm not sure what's being asked about here, though; is it the word for "many" (e.g. "there were many people at the party"), or the word for "very" (e.g. "this food is very spicy")?


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## clevermizo

It's used for both senses, much like the Levantine كتير. For example: _għandi ħafna flus_ عندي حفنة فلوس "I have a lot of money" and _jiena ferħan ħafna_ أنا فرحان حفنة "I am very happy." Can you use this word like this in Najdi?


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## Imad Net

clevermizo said:


> Does any known dialect use the word حفنة? (Literally, a handful or a scoopful). This is the word used in Maltese and I was curious if its use could be corroborated elsewhere.


On utilise ce mot en Algérie, c'est de l'Arabe correct, mais il signifie "une petite quantité", en Français on dit, "poignée", contrairement en Malte, il veut dire "beaucoup"..

did you understand me brother clevermizo ?


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## WadiH

clevermizo said:


> It's used for both senses, much like the Levantine كتير.


 
I know. I was referring to the thread as a whole. We use a different set of words for "many" than the one we use for "very." It seems that in other places the same set is used for both or the two sets overlap.



> For example: _għandi ħafna flus_ عندي حفنة فلوس "I have a lot of money" and _jiena ferħan ħafna_ أنا فرحان حفنة "I am very happy." Can you use this word like this in Najdi?


 
It means "handful" and is used in much the same way as the English words "handful" or "few," which can either mean "little" or "decent amount" depending on context (probably exactly the same in MSA). I don't know if this word was always present in Arabian dialects or if it was recently learned from MSA -- it's not always easy to tell. In this case, my instict tells me it's the former, at least in some elevated or poetic registers.  Perhaps Ayed can help.


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## clevermizo

Imad Net said:


> On utilise ce mot en Algérie, c'est de l'Arabe correct, mais il signifie "une petite quantité", en Français on dit, "poignée", contrairement en Malte, il veut dire "beaucoup"..
> 
> did you understand me brother clevermizo ?



Oui, je vous ai compris. C'est intéressant comment le sens a changé. Mais, vous savez, dans les dialectes arabes il y a des certaines expressions qui ont obtenu des sens inverses. Par exemple, le verbe فات qui au Liban signifie "entrer" mais au Soudan il veut dire "partir". Il me surprend qu'un mot tellement simple comme "poignée" ou "un petit peu" ait changé complètement de cette façon. Ou peut-être au passé en Malte une poignée de quelque-chose était le plus beaucoup d'elle qui existait.


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## Imad Net

peut être bien  parce que le maltais c'est la dialecte arabe de Sicile...
au fait, dans toutes les dialectes arabes, *حفنة* veut dire "poignée",.. par contre en Malte


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## ayed

clevermizo said:


> It's used for both senses, much like the Levantine كتير. For example: _għandi ħafna flus_ عندي حفنة فلوس "I have a lot of money" and _jiena ferħan ħafna_ أنا فرحان حفنة "I am very happy." Can you use this word like this in Najdi?


Celevermizo, *hafnah *still is used in the Badawi dialect:
*زود حفنة رز على القدر* _Add a hadful of rice into the pot_.
If we had a child asking to give him more dates,we may sometimes say angilry:"give him/her a hadful of soil"*عطوه حفنة* *تراب*
*زود حفينة ملح على العشاء* _Add a hadfulet of salt to the cooking pot_.


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## clevermizo

Yes, it does seem that most dialects use this word with the literal meaning of "handful." I was mostly curious if any dialects used it with the meaning of كثير.


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## ALOOO

> Does any known dialect use the word حفنة? (Literally, a handful or a scoopful). This is the word used in Maltese and I was curious if its use could be corroborated elsewhere.


 
Yes,we do.
it means (a few) or (little), and it use with uncountable.
اعطني حفنة ماء


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## el-Shinqiti

In the Hassaniya dialect (Mauritania, etc.) it is 'yasser min'


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## quee1763

In Sana'a you can say خيرات, e.g. ناس خيرات = a lot of people


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## el-Shinqiti

In Hassaniya dialect (Mauritania, W. Sahara, northern Mali, southern Morocco, and southwestern Algeria) we say " yaasir (min el-)...". Anyone know  what it is in Maltese, Cypriot Maronite Arabic, or Shuwa (Chad, and parts of Niger and NE Nigeria)? By the way, I do know that "bizzaaf" is also used in parts of Morocco (sometimes meaning "too much" (of)...

(in American English one can say "lots" (of), "a whole lot" (of), "a bunch" (of), "oodles" (of), "a heap" (of), "a whole slew" (of) etc.).


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## tounsi51

In some parts of Tunisia they say نود  instead of برشا
To say plenty of, full of, we use also قدس  + noun from the verb قدّسى and the adjective is مقدّس
All qaf are prounouced g


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## analeeh

In Syrian the most common is كتير _ktiir_ but people also say كامايات _koomaayaat_ and بلوي _balawi_ and maybe also بلايا _blaaya._


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## Hemza

Does someone know what is the origin of the Libyan هلبة and the Hassania/Algerian/Tunisian ياسر? Thank you.


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## Malki92

elroy said:


> In Palestinian Arabic, besides كتير (_ktiir_), we say ملان (_malaan_) and بلايا (_balaaya_).  The latter is Galilean; I don't think I've ever heard people from Jerusalem use it.



Is بشكل also used? The Olive Tree Dictionary lists bshakl with a note stating it's popular in Jerusalem. The example it gives is: بحبه بشكل


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## tounsi51

In Tunisia we have also a few words like

- قدس pronounced godss from the verb gadass
- in some regions they use the word نود + noun


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## elroy

shaliach said:


> Is بشكل also used? The Olive Tree Dictionary lists bshakl with a note stating it's popular in Jerusalem. The example it gives is: بحبه بشكل


 Yes, it's used, but it's pronounced "bshakel."


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## Javiqeleqele

[Moderator note: threads merged. Please don't forget to search the forum before opening a thread. Cherine]

Salaam w aleykum!

I want to know what the difference is between the three words.

I think bezzaf is North African Arabic. But are they interchangeable?

For example:

Wahshani ya baladi awi/bezzaf/gidaan

Ana baheb il lisaan al 3arabi awi/bezzaf/gidaan

Huwa beitkalim 3arabi kwayes, bas ana batkalim 3arabi awi/bezzaf/gidaan ahsan.

I am a complete Arabic beginner so I can't read/write it just now.

Shukran Gazeelan!


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## Hemza

wa 3aleykum es-salaam,

"bezzaf" is Moroccan and Algerian and not used elsewhere now across North Africa (although other words like yaaser, barsha, nezha, halba, waajed, are also used) and means "a lot".

awi is Egyptian and it also means "a lot".

"giddan", is the Egyptian pronunciation of "jiddan" which means "a lot" but is specific to intensity, otherwise, "kathiir(an)" is also used.

Your two first sentences seem correct but the last part of the last one, no. I would replace it with "*ana batkallim 3arabi a7san biktiir*" (hope I won't get my knuckles rapped by Egyptians  ) . Those sentences are in the Egyptian dialect, so I advise you to avoid "bezzaf" if you don't want puzzled looks to be thrown at you .

In case you also want (in order to compare) the equivalent of your sentences in my dialect, here are they:

twa77asht bladi yaaser

n7ebb el lisaan al 3arbi yaaser (although you may also say "n7eb el 3arbiyya").

yitkallem zeyn bel 3arbiyya amma/walakin ana netkellem a7san/akhiar menno (He speaks well Arabic yet I speak it better than him).

Last point: you don't need the pronouns (huwa, ana etc) in Arabic unless it is for emphasise purposes.


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## Golden-Rose

In Syrian you also have خيرات الله


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## bearded

Could the Northafrican _bezzaf/bezzef _be derived from the Italian word 'bizzeffe'? There is an idiom _a bizzeffe _meaning 'in a great quantity/in a large number'.


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## Hemza

Hello 

No, actually it is the opposite, the Italian expression comes from Arabic which itself comes from a Persian expression which is كوزاف and means "a great amount" and became بالجزاف in فصحى and as ج and ز don't like to stay together (at least in the Maghreb those two always undergo funny changes) the ج had been "swallowed" by the ز which became doubled and ended into بالزّاف. "Bezzaf" used to be used from Morocco to Egypt (including Tunisia and Libya) but is to my knowledge, now only used in most parts of Morocco and parts of Algeria. You also find the Egyptian variation which is "bazzoufa"


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## bearded

Hemza said:


> the Italian expression comes from Arabic


Hello Hemza
The Italian Etymologic Dictionary does not agree on that:  Etimologia : bizzeffe;.


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## tounsi51

Hemza said:


> "Bezzaf" used to be used from Morocco to Egypt (including *Tunisia* and Libya) but is to my knowledge, now only used in most parts of Morocco and parts of Algeria. You also find the Egyptian variation which is "bazzoufa"



Really?


bearded said:


> Hello Hemza
> The Italian Etymologic Dictionary does not agree on that:  Etimologia : bizzeffe;.



Maybe they are 2 different words with no link between each other


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## Hemza

bearded said:


> Hello Hemza
> The Italian Etymologic Dictionary does not agree on that:  Etimologia : bizzeffe;.



This dictionary sounds a bit nationalistic . Joking apart, some indications show that this word came to Italian from Arabic and not the other way around:

-The use of "bi" a particle found in many Arabic constructions
-The absence of "bizzeffe" or any similar expression in other Latin based languages (I know, it proves nothing but it is a sign) and to my knowledge, no similar word/expression in Latin.
-I don't speak Italian yet I don't think you find many other words which would contain a similar roots in Italian.

And I found this:

biżżèffe in Vocabolario - Treccani


tounsi51 said:


> Really?



It is Philippe Marçais in his book "Esquisse grammaticale de l'arabe maghrébin" who says it. Here is the quote:

L'expression beaucoup [...] est traduite par:
-"b-ez-zāf" du Maroc à la Cyrénaïque.
-"yāser" prédomine dans les parlers bédouins du Maroc, d'Algérie, de Tunisie et du Fezzan
-"barsha" (d'origine turque) est le terme tunisien
-"nezha" est fréquent dans les parlers bédouins

But he forgot to mention the Libyan "halba" and "waajed".

And if it exists in Egypt, in Morocco and Algeria, thus it probably means that it existed once upon a time in Tunisia and Libya too.


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## I.K.S.

Golden-Rose said:


> In Syrian you also have خيرات الله


Interesting.. we also use خير الله in the rural west.


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## bearded

Thank you for your reply #46, Hemz a, and for the interesting Treccani link.  It's clear that linguists do not agree with each other concerning the origin of 'bizzeffe', but I would rather drop this subject now, if you don't mind, because an Italian etymology is ''off topic'' here (my fault in the first place).


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## Hemza

ayed said:


> In Badawi Najdi dialect:
> *راهي*



Do you know the origin of this راهي? Thank you.



إتحادية قبائل الشاوية said:


> Interesting.. we also use خير الله in the rural west.



I had no idea . Sometimes I feel that I'm completely ignorant (which is true actually  ) about Western dialects of Morocco (also because the dialect of الدار البيضاء today in the media seems _à priori_ so far from the traditional dialects of the West).


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## momai

djara said:


> Me too. In Lisan al-Arab there is a noun "al-barshaa2": a (large) group of people, a crowd. Also an adjective "arDun barshaa2" (land with plenty of grass). As you can see, both the noun and the adjective refer to the idea of a large number and a large quantity.
> This is a mere interpretation. I have no idea how this notion is expressed in Berber.


In Syrian Arabic, برش means to rasp sth (cheese for example). It might also be related to your _barsha,_ in that you produce a large quantitiy out of something.


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## elroy

momai said:


> In Syrian Arabic, برش means to rasp sth (cheese for example).


 "grate"


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## bearded

Welcome back, elroy!
عودًا حميدًا


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## Hemza

I got a dictionary of Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Egyptian dialects and French written at least before 1854. It never mentions when it is Maghrebi or Egyptian (although one can sometimes guess). I randomly found this, which may give a clue about Libyan هلبة  




It is just a guess but here هلبة (meaning "tout à fait") may be Tunisian or Algerian (the dictionary seems to mainly focus on Algerian for historical reasons), what do you think @djara ? The author didn't include what would become later Libyan (either Tripolitanian, Fezzan or Cyrenaican dialects) so this picture can't refer to what is now Libyan.


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## cherine

Interesting find, Hamza.  This واصل can be heard in Egyptian series taking place in Upper Egypt, but I only heard it in negative sentences with the meaning "[not] at all": ما اعرفش واصل I don't know at all/I absolutely don't know.


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## djara

Hemza said:


> It is just a guess but here هلبة (meaning "tout à fait") may be Tunisian or Algerian (the dictionary seems to mainly focus on Algerian for historical reasons), what do you think @djara ?


No, هلبة is not used in Tunisian.
In the picture you included, the only phrase that sounds Tunisian is بالمرة which means "not at all" (that is "tout à fait" in the negative sense, exactly as @cherine said in the previous post)


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## Hemza

cherine said:


> Interesting find, Hamza.  This واصل can be heard in Egyptian series taking place in Upper Egypt, but I only heard it in negative sentences with the meaning "[not] at all": ما اعرفش واصل I don't know at all/I absolutely don't know.



And me who was wondering from which planet could this واصل come from . Thank you .



djara said:


> No, هلبة is not used in Tunisian.
> In the picture you included, the only phrase that sounds Tunisian is بالمرة which means "not at all" (that is "tout à fait" in the negative sense, exactly as @cherine said in the previous post)



Thank you. (بالمرة is also used in Morocco with this same meaning). But how could the author (Jean Joseph Marçais) get this هلبة? Is it a mistake? Or he may had included some Libyan words (although it is not claimed). Even the meaning seems _à priori_ wrong to me as with other words (بالمرة, بالكل/بالكلية).


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## Sun-Shine

I think هلبة is a Libyan word and means كثير

كلمة ( هلبه ) في عامِّيَّة ليبيا


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## I.K.S.

Hemza said:


> But how could the author (Jean Joseph Marçais) get this هلبة? Is it a mistake? Or he may had included some Libyan words (although it is not claimed)


This might be attributed to the geographic boundaries of political entities that change over the time; accordingly, The author must have recorded some words within what used to be ايالة تونس at the time...


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## djara

Hemza said:


> But how could the author (Jean Joseph Marçais) get this هلبة? Is it a mistake?


I think the whole entry is a mistake because a proper French translation of the following three phrases بالمرة، بالكلية، واصل would be "absolument pas; pas du tout..." (not at all, absolutely not) and not "tout à fait" (quite, exactly...)
As far as I know Libyan هلبة is not used to mean either 'tout à fait' or 'pas du tout'


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## Hemza

sun_shine 331995 said:


> كلمة ( هلبه ) في عامِّيَّة ليبيا


Thanks for the link, I've found this entry but I don't know if it is possible that the name of some character became a word which means "a lot"... And Eastern Libya doesn't use this word hence my doubts about this hypothesis...



إتحادية قبائل الشاوية said:


> This might be attributed to the geographic boundaries of political entities that change over the time; accordingly, The author must have recorded some words within what used to be ايالة تونس at the time...



This also came to my mind afterwards (political boundaries didn't exist or at least, were much different from today's ones).



djara said:


> I think the whole entry is a mistake because a proper French translation of the following three phrases بالمرة، بالكلية، واصل would be "absolument pas; pas du tout..." (not at all, absolutely not) and not "tout à fait" (quite, exactly...)
> As far as I know Libyan هلبة is not used to mean either 'tout à fait' or 'pas du tout'



That's must be the only conclusion. "Tout à fait" means the same thing as "absolument pas/pas du tout" yet it is always positive while the latters are negative and according to my modest knowledge, no one would say بالمرة or بالكل in a statement, only in negative sentences.


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## MeesoKaroui

bearded said:


> Could the Northafrican _bezzaf/bezzef _be derived from the Italian word 'bizzeffe'? There is an idiom _a bizzeffe _meaning 'in a great quantity/in a large number'.



From my understanding that can be vice versa. The Romans colonised North Africa and the Romans of 2000 years ago spoke a different language to the Italians of nowadays. When the Romans colonised North Africa they apparently learned the local language and so must have adopted many words from the native languages from those areas and took them back home, which may have survived and became modern day Italian words. For example in Tunisia, I've read that the Roman colonisers had to learn the languages used at the time. Amazigh which was the indigenous people, their language was named Libu by the Romans and there was some Punic from the Carthaginians. I've heard that in modern day Italian there is the word 'fartattou' which means done, if this is true I understand it comes from the Amazigh word Afartattou which means butterfly. Where I'm from in Tunisia, in derja we say farfattou/fartattou for moth nowadays


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## Hemza

@MeesoKaroui This cannot go back to Roman times since the word is unknown in Amazigh dialects. It rather came with the arabisation of North Africa. Italian _Bizzeffe _ultimately (according to my knowledge) goes back to Persian but it came to Italian through Arabic (بالزاف itself is derivated from Standard Arabic بالجزاف and there even is the verb جزف which means أكثر). The word is/was (?) also used in Egypt in rural areas but it's pronounced بالزوفة (bazzoufa).

تعريف و شرح و معنى جزف بالعربي في معاجم اللغة العربية معجم المعاني الجامع، المعجم الوسيط ،اللغة العربية المعاصر ،الرائد ،لسان العرب ،القاموس المحيط  - معجم عربي عربي صفحة 1


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## djara

Hemza said:


> بالزاف itself is derivated from Standard Arabic بالجزاف and there even is the verb جزف which means أكثر). The word is/was (?) also used in Egypt in rural areas but it's pronounced بالزوفة (bazzoufa)


While it is possible to imagine بالزاف deriving from بالجزاف (the jeem and zay being merged into a zay) how could one derive بالزوفة from the same بالجزاف? Phonetically, Egyptian is not know to confuse jeem and zay, jeem being mostly pronounced as a hard g. Morphologically, بالزوفة points to a hypothetical root زاف يزوف, not to جزف يجزف مجازفة جزافا.


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## WadiH

بالزوفة could be from بالجزوفة.  Egyptian hard 'g' is historically only in Cairo and perhaps Alexandria.  Most other Egyptian dialects have ج = [dj] and ق = [g].

HOWEVER, زاف يزوف seems much more plausible, especially in light of this from _Lisaan Al-'Arab_:

زأف: زأَفَه يَزْأَفُه زَأْفاً: أَعْجَله. وَقَدْ أَزْأَفْتُ عَلَيْهِ أَي أَجْهَزْتُ عَلَيْهِ. وَمَوْتٌ زُؤَاف وزُؤامٌ: كَريه، وَقِيلَ: وحِيٌّ. وأَزْأَفَ فُلَانًا بطنُه: أَثْقَلَه فَلَمْ يَقْدِر أَن يتحرّك.

Seems to indicate intensity by way of 'heaviness'.


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## Hemza

@djara @Wadi Hanifa you're both right, what you say seems logical.

Any idea about ياسر origin? I kept looking for it but couldn't find something. It doesn't seem to be used outside the Maghreb and it's seems to be mostly used in bedouin dialects.


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## Hemza

I heard from a Libyan (from the East) عرم to say a lot and that reminded me a Moroccan expression which is بالعرّام. Is this (or something close to it) heard somewhere else? Thanks


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## Mahaodeh

In Palestinian Arabic I’ve often heard the passive participle اسم المفعول used to mean “full over capacity”, or “full in a heap” for example  صحن معرّم رز means there is a lot of rice in a heap in it.

I know in fus7a you would say سيل عَرِم to mean a really big flood or torrent. So perhaps this is the origin.

Also, I know that عُرمة is a heap of wheat or barely or similar grains, so it could be from this.


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## fenakhay

Hemza said:


> I heard from a Libyan (from the East) عرم to say a lot and that reminded me a Moroccan expression which is بالعرّام. Is this (or something close to it) heard somewhere else? Thanks


We say عُرَّام 3urrām for "a lot".

عندي عرام ما نعمل هاد الويكاند (3andi 3urrām mā na3mal hād el-wīkānd) = I have a lot to do this weekend


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## djara

Mahaodeh said:


> Also, I know that عُرمة is a heap of wheat or barely or similar grains


Same in some parts of Tunisia, a heap of anything


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