# なんでやね / なんでやねん



## kyn

Could someone tell me what do these phrases mean:
-なんでやね / なんでやねん
xxx


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## Wookie

kyn said:


> Could someone tell me what do these phrases mean:
> -なんでやね / なんでやねん
> xxx


 
'なんでやねん' is a kind of dialect which is used in Kansai area.
It means 'Why is that?', 'How come?'
In Tokyo, people say 'なんで', 'どうして' instead of 'なんでやねん'.


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## Flaminius

Not very conversant with Kansai dialect, I would like to know if やねん or やね is equivalent of the standard だよ (which emphasizes the query, often implying that the speaker considers the status quo to be unfair).

Hello *Wookie*, welcome to the WordReference forums!


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## notnotchris

The first time I learned なんでやねん it was as a 突っ込み, a technique in Japanese humor used to draw attention to the ぼけ's unreasonable or stupid comment.

Here's a bit on Wikipedia on Boke and Tsukkomi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzai#Boke_and_tsukkomi

I've seen it translated as, "You've got to be kidding," but the English doesn't quite capture the humor in this phrase. Just think of it as a general 突っ込み.

As for Flaminus' question, I know や is equivalent to だ but ねん has no exact Kanto equivalent. I think it's much softer and more comical than よ though.


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## cheshire

kyn said:


> Could someone tell me what do these phrases mean:
> -なんでやね / なんでやねん
> xxx


The phrase isn't complete without the last ん!


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## unprimesuspect

As a native speaker of Kansai- ben (well, sort of) I couldn't let this one go. If I were to ask "Why is that?," I'd say：

 "なんでなん？”

 There is a difference in nuance between やね （だね）and やねん（でしょう）. For one, the latter sounds much more lively. And やね/やな sounds like I'm agreeing with something that was said to me while やねん is something I'd say when someone else agrees with what I had to say.


 me: むっちゃ, はらたつなー。
 my friend: ほんまやな。なんかしらんけど、ごっつーきにくわんなー。
 me: そうやねん。


 Now, なんでやねん (＝どうしてそうなる？＝Why would you say/do/think _that???_） is not something I'd say. It sounds a bit much even to me. 

以上まで。


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## kyn

What do you mean it's a bit much to you?
And how is the intonation when you say "なんでやねん"? Do I have to raise my voice?


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## unprimesuspect

kyn said:


> What do you mean it's a bit much to you?
> And how is the intonation when you say "なんでやねん"?



It's a phrase so often used by お笑い芸人 (おわらいげいにん；comedians) that, in my opinion, it has become rather hard for 素人（しろうと；non-professionals）to pull-off without sounding like you are trying too hard to be funny. That's my perception though and maybe I feel that way because I'm not good at telling jokes. 




> And how is the intonation when you say "なんでやねん"? Do I have to raise my voice?


I would definitely place the stress on the 'や.' You don't have to raise your voice unless you have reasons to do so. Actually, even if you don't raise your voice, if you go up in pitch at "やねん," that alone would indicate that you aren't all that happy with what's going on.


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## cheshire

「や」ではなく「で」にストレスを置く、の間違いちゃうん？


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## unprimesuspect

cheshire said:


> 「や」ではなく「で」にストレスを置く、の間違いちゃうん？



間違いなんかとちゃうよ。ほんまにそうやて。

「なんで」の中では／で／にストレスがかかるけど、「なんでやねん」でとか「なんでや」で、／で／に一番強いストレス入れたら、めっちゃおかしいで。まー、関西っていっても広いから中にはそーゆーふうにいわはる人がいはるかもしれんけど、うちは絶対「なんで*や*ねん！」ってゆうてるし、周りの皆もそーやで。

Kansai-ben is so much fun.


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## cheshire

じゃあ、芸能人で例えばだれが「や」にストレスを置くか、言うてみ？


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## notnotchris

I also hear stress on the や or the whole やねん. I learned my Kansai-ben in Nara, if that's relevant.


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## cheshire

There are two kinds of stress: pitch accent and stress accent. The former example is Japanese. The latter is English. Swedish has both.
If you put a pitch accent in で and a stress accent in や、 that makes sense. It's exactly the same as Swedish!

なん*でや*ねん. 　(red: high pitch accent; blue: strong stress accent)

You see, it's so Swedish!


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## notnotchris

納得, now that you put it that way. I'll have to learn me some Swedish next!


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## unprimesuspect

My roommate came home and he says when he hears me say 「なんでやねん」、he hears stress accent on the second syllable（だ) but he does hear my pitch go up on 'や.'  

So, according to him, I'm saying: なん*でや*ねん.

Well, he doesn't speak a word of Japanese let alone Kansai-ben but that's what he hears and I don't exactly disagree with him. 

Oh well. If you hear Sanma, Shinsuke, or Emi-chan say  なん*でや*ねん, let me know.


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## cheshire

Just to make sure you got it right: do you not recognize the musical note for で going up with で, and subsequently going down?


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## unprimesuspect

cheshire said:


> Just to make sure you got it right: do you not recognize the musical note for で going up with で, and subsequently going down?



No, I do not. If anything, the note goes slightly down on で then I hear it go up on や. At least that's how I say it. However, as I've stated before, I wouldn't really use this phrase. It's too Yoshimoto. 

Burde du ikkje studere svensk istedenfor då?
(Borde du inte studera svenska istället då?; I think...my Swedish is still shaky).

"Bergenish" = Kansai-ben of Scandinavia


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## unprimesuspect

If anyone is still interested in this, I found phonographs。 

I can't link to an outside source but if you google: 

みんなで一緒になんでやねん

It should come up as the first hit. You can see three graphs there; the first one belonging to someone from Kyoto; the second one belongs to a "non-native;" and the third one belongs to someone who lives on the border of Kyoto and Osaka. 

I don't speak "pure" Kyoto dialect but I'm pretty sure my なんでやねん follows the first graph closely.


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## Uebersetzer

After 8 years living in Osaka I'd like to share the way I see ネン
1)断定辞：寒いネン(Used for sharing an information for the first time or adding new info.In 標準語 that would correspond to 「よ」
２）詰問：何すんネン（What the heck are you doing?).I think it would be something like 「何するんだよ」in 標準語。


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## Hiro Sasaki

We say in Kansai ”なんでや”, "なんでやねん　”。　We do not say ”なんでやん”。
When the shop clerk says : This T shirt is 1800
 yen ".The customer will say " なんでやねん　”　This means "why this is
so expensive.? "

どうしてですか　？　in standard Japanese is too direct and is not so versatile
with some nuances.


Hiro Sasaki


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