# FR: one of - (l')un, (l')une de - article défini ?



## wallacewalrus

Hi
I have a question about the usage of un de/l'un de..
For example:
Je suis allé chez *un* de mes amis, ou
Je suis allé chez *l'un* de mes amis.
Are both of these correct, and if so, is it merely a question formal vs. informal speaking? I swear I have seen/heard examples of both, and I'm wondering if there's something I'm not picking up in the context or if it's really just the author's/speaker's choice, as is the case with on vs l'on.
Thanks much.

*Moderator note:* multiple threads merged to create this one.


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## veryshy

Both are correct but I prefer the second! The first would sound better if it's; Je suis allé chez un ami des miens! but it's correct though!


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## wallacewalrus

I found one of my housemate's socks in the dryer with my clothes and I told her :
"J'ai trouvé l'une de tes chaussettes dans ma lessive."
Then I asked her if I should say "*l'une* de tes chaussettes" or "*une *de tes chaussettes (without the *l'*)". She said "*l'une* de tes chaussettes" is correct. So why can't I say "*une *de tes chaussettes" in this case? Or was she just telling me the better way to say it?


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## veryshy

Well,*L'* here is a definite article, and *un* de mes amis is indifinite, but adding *L' *does not define ami whome I visited, eventhough we know all his friends! that friend is uncknown to the reader / listener in both cases! So you can use both! My preference of *L'*un is better to my ear only!

Si *on* veut et si *l'on* veut! it's not an article here, it's just added to make the speech softer!

Hi Wallacewalrus! I'm just learning but sure of nothing Iam saying here !


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## wallacewalrus

Hi veryshy!
Hmmm..it's not quite clear to me yet. So, I know that the *l'*on is optional. It exists for aesthetic reasons and corresponds to a higher level of language. When I say *l'un de* mes amis, *l'une de* tes chaussettes, *l'un des* films les plus célèbres du monde, *l'un de* mes romans préférés, or *l'une des* deux pommes que j'ai mangées (these are just various examples), is the *l'* necessary/optional/incorrect in each case? I get the sense that it's always optional with the construction *un de...* So what do you think?
Thanks for your help!


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## Cath.S.

wallacewalrus said:


> I know that the *l'*on is optional. It exists for aesthetic reasons and corresponds to a higher level of language.


The same is true of l' in the following examples.



> When I say *l'un de* mes amis,*l'une de* tes chaussettes, *l'un des* films les plus célèbres du monde, *l'un de* mes romans préférés, or *l'une des* deux pommes que j'ai mangées (these are just various examples), is the *l'* necessary/optional/incorrect in each case?


It is optional.


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## Hugh08

_Hook publia *l'un* des tout premiers recueils_

Ma question concerne 'l'un'. Est-ce qu'on peut dire également 'publia un des tout premiers recueils'? Y a-t-il des règles pour l'emploi de l'article avant le 'un'?


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## cropje_jnr

Non, cela sert uniquement à des fins stylistiques, asthétiques. Il est tout à fait possible de laisser tomber ce « le » supplémentaire.


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## Fred_C

Pour faire un parallèle, on peut dire que "l'un" et "un" sont interchangeables exactement comme "l'on" et "on". On peut choisir "l'un" à la place de "un" pour des raisons d'euphonie, éventuellement.
(Voir cette discussion)


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## apprenantjusquaubout

Salut 

I've observed this difference in the following two threads:
French is one of the most taught languages in the world
I think French is one of the most beautiful language in the world

My question now is that when do we use "un des" and "l'un des" when both ultimately mean "one of the" ?

Thank you all!


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## mcb_34

exactly the same. The difference for me is most about the sound it makes: "l'un" is softer then "un". Just a question of personal habits.


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## Donaldos

There is no real difference between the two but in some cases, _"_l'un" may be preferable or more common.


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## francais_espanol

Bonjour

Voici ma phrase en anglais:

"In my opinion, _it (the French language) is one of the_ most beautiful languages in the world. "

Mon essai:

"A mon avis, c'est l'une des plus belles langues au monde. "
ou
"A mon avis, c'est une des plus belles langues au monde. "

Est-il obligatoire d'ajouter le " l' " devant "une" ? 
Merci d'avance pour votre aide.


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## Reliure

Bonjour,
grammaticalement les deux phrases sont très bien et, de mon point de vue, la nuance sémantique est infime.

Intuitivement je dirais qu'elle doit être du même ordre que les expressions anglo-saxonnes "_most of"_ & "_one of the most"_, mais j'avoue que j'en ai oublié la signification précise en Anglais!


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## Kay Champs

Could you tell me when to use <<l'un des ...>> and when to use <<un des ...>> 

 (Answers to this question of mine may be in French or English.)

In particular, I found an article in Figaro a following example, where both    <<un des ...>>  and <<l'un des ...>> are used though talking about the same topic.

"Maroc: un des 9 évadés repris 
L'un des neuf détenus islamistes condamnés à de lourdes peines évadés le 7 avril de la prison centrale de Kénitra (30 km au nord de Rabat) a été arrêté."

This example makes me wonder if  "one of the" can be translated automatically into whichever of these alternatives without any difference or are there some differences between the two.

I cite below for your reference some other examples where either "l'un des" or "un des" is used:
Examples:
1) Cet hiver, l'un des plus froids en France depuis vingt ans.
2) Un des plus terrifiants mensonges de l'histoire.
3) Deux des plus grands attentats aeriens
4)Philippe Dehapiot, l'un des quatre avocats qui défendaient Yvan Colonna
5) La France doit-elle être un des derniers pays européens à conserver l'ISF ?
6) Un couple agressé blesse un des voleurs.


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## SwissPete

*Un des *and *l'un des* are the same. The *l'* can be dropped without change in the meaning.


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## Amstellodamois

We can add that "l'un des" is slightly more formal.


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## Micia93

and also "l'un d'eux" rolls softly off the tongue


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## Amstellodamois

Alors je suis tout à fait d'accord.
"L'un d'entre eux" sounds better than "Un d'entre eux" with a kind of sweety taste.

Thanks to all of you.


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## Kay Champs

"d'entre eux" cannot be one of the options in the alternatives I had in mind.  (C'etait "l'un des plus .... etc. ) 
Amstellodamois first said that "l'un des" is slightly more formal."  Then Amstellodamois said at the end that "L'un d'entre eux" sounds better than "Un d'entre eux" with a kind of sweety taste."

Does it still hold that "l'un des" is slightly more formal?  Second remark of yours "L'un d'entre eux" "sounds better" is somewhat ambiguous to me.  In what way does it sound better?  You may not be comparing "l'un des" and "l'un d'entre eux) anyway?  But could you sum it all quand meme?


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## Micia93

beginning a word with a vowel (like "l'un") is always easier to pronounce than with a consonne (like "un"), especially the " L " which is soft
is it clearer ?


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## Amstellodamois

Kay Champs said:


> Amstellodamois first said that "l'un des" is slightly more formal."  Then Amstellodamois said at the end that "L'un d'entre eux" sounds better than "Un d'entre eux" with a kind of sweety taste."


For the better sounding, I was speaking of the pronunciation only (it's....let's say rounded) but the majority of the natives will not use the l' though.


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## Micia93

Amstellodamois said:


> the majority of the natives will not use the l' though.



I'm not part of this majority, then


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## Amstellodamois

Me neither and I'm happy not to be, just as I'm happy not to confuse the _futur simple_ and the _conditionnel_ etc etc


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## Corky Ringspot

I wonder if someone could give me an idea of when to use _un de_ & when to use _l'un de_, to translate phrases such as _one of the cats was black_ or _one of the biggest rivers in the world_?

Thanks in advance.


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## Donaldos

Voici deux réponses : Un vs L'un (anglais) ou L'un (français).

Tu peux donc choisir:

_L'un des chats était noir._ ou _Un des chats était noir._ (less formal)

_L'un des plus longs fleuves du monde._ ou _Un des plus longs fleuves du monde._


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## iaatf

Should it be just "une" or do I need "l'une"? As in:
C'était une des premieres choses que j'ai fait.....
Elle demeure une des cathédrales les plus remarquables....
Thanks.


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## Oddmania

Both work, I think adding* l'* sounds just more stylish 

Just like adding *l' *in front of _on_ (_Pour qu'on/Pour que l'on_, etc...)


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## *kiki*

Bonjour,

I'm trying to say : One of the spaniels sprawling under the desk instantly retrieved the tobacco...

L'un des épagneuls qui étaient affalés...

But something sounds really wrong with the agreement, do I need to say L'un parmi...?

Merci

Kiki


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## ride7359

You don't need the article - just "Un des épagneuls..."


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## Micia93

sorry Ride, but "*l'*un des épagneuls" has a smoother sounding


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## ride7359

Micia93 states that "L'un des épagneuls..." is smoother sounding than "Un des épagneuls.."

Can someone give an example where "Un(e) de.." is used?  Is it more colloquial?  Is it less formal? 

I'm trying to think if I have ever noticed hearing "*L*'un de mes amis est en Afrique" instead of "*U*n de mes amis..."


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## jetset

There is an explanation here http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/unlun.htm
but in your example both are acceptable.


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## ShineLikeStars

Bonjour !

In the following sentence would you say l'un or just un (what is the meaning of l' in this case and why might it be necessary?)


English : One of my goals this year is to get an A+ in history. 
Français : (L')un de mes buts de cette année.... 


Merci beaucoup !
SLS


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## Maître Capello

Both are equally correct and have exactly the same meaning. Adding _l'_ is just a bit more formal than omitting it. As for its grammatical role, it's hard to say; it is expletive.


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## Ala888

aussi est-ce que il faut toujours mettre un "l" article devant un des ....
comme:

je vien de travailler avec l'un de mes amies
ou
je vien de travailler avec un de mes amies

[…]


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## Fluttershy

Since _un_ is a pronoun in this context, we'd use _l'un._ So the first example that you gave is more correct.

_Je vien*s* de travailler avec l'un de mes amis.
_Note: The correct conjugation of venir in the first person singular

If _un_ was used as a number or an article, we'd simply just use _un_.
For example:

_Il y a un chat._ - There is one cat.

_C'est un chat._ - It's a cat.

Cheers!


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## Ala888

So let me get this straight, each time I use "one of .." I need to put an le infront of un
because its a pronoun ?
is there any rules where I need to follow or is it basically always "l'un"
comme:
Ma petite ami est triste parce que ton chien a mangé l'un de ses chaussures


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## Maître Capello

Actually, both _un_ and _l'un_ are correct in this case.


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## Fluttershy

@Maître Capello:
That's why I said, "...is more correct."

I think it has to do with formality, am I wrong? You can use just _un_ if you're not in a formal situation.

@Ala888:
I'm not 100% on this and hopefully someone with more experience than me can verify or clarify, but I believe if you're trying to be formal, you would put _l'un_, but sans l'article "le" is correct too. I was told that you're safe and "more correct" putting _l'un_ if it is followed by a preposition (usually _de_).

Remember when you're saying "one of my friends" or "one of his shoes," you're not talking directly about the friends or the shoes, but you're talking about one of the friends or one of the shoes.. if that makes sense?


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## Maître Capello

Fluttershy said:


> That's why I said, "...is more correct."


That would however imply that _un_ would be *less* correct than _l'un_, which is not true. Both _un_ and _l'un_ are indeed *equally* fine.



> I think it has to do with formality, am I wrong? You can use just _un_ if you're not in a formal situation.


I would not say formality but rather style and mere personal preference, just like _on_ vs. _l'on_ as mentioned by Fred_C. In other words, you can use either in both formal and colloquial contexts.


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## Donaldos

Maître Capello said:


> I would not say formality but rather style and mere personal preference, just like _on_ vs. _l'on_ as mentioned by Fred_C. In other words, you can use either in both formal and colloquial contexts.



And yet _l'un de_ is rarely used in informal speech.



> _Un_, ou _l'un_ dans la langue soutenue, désignent une unité faisant partie d'un ensemble mentionné ensuite (parfois avant) sous la forme d'un complément introduit par _de_.



(Le Bon Usage)



> Dans des tournures comme _un de_…, _une de_…,  où l’on désigne une unité parmi d’autres, on peut placer un _l’ _avant le pronom indéfini _un_. Il s’agit d’un emploi facultatif, plus présent dans la langue soutenue.



(BDL)

The same remark applies to _(l')on_...


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## Maître Capello

Yes, but "plus présent dans la langue soutenue" doesn't mean it is not used in colloquial speech… 

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, I do use _l'un_ in everyday speech.


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## jasminasul

Hello forum,

I'm reviewing the subtitles of _The Spider's Web_ and I find this sentence. Could you tell me if this is correct or I should change* fut une *to *fut l'une*?

La City* fut une* des seules portions du territoire anglais que Guillaume ne parvint pas a conquérir.


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## SwissPete

I don't think there is much difference between *une des* and* l'une des*.


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## OLN

Pour éviter le hiatus, il faut faire la liaison.


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## jasminasul

La liaison entre t et u ?
Merci.


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## Bezoard

Je ne sais pas dire pourquoi, mais dans cette phrase, je préfère nettement "une" à l'une" :
_La City* fut une* des seules portions du territoire anglais que Guillaume ne parvint pas a conquérir._
Je n'aurais pas le même sentiment avec :
_La City* fut l'une* des rares portions du territoire anglais que Guillaume ne parvint pas a conquérir._


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## Maître Capello

Pour moi c'est bonnet blanc et blanc bonnet.

_La City fut une des seules portions…_ 
_La City fut *l'*une des seules portions…_ 



OLN said:


> Pour éviter le hiatus, il faut faire la liaison.


Quel hiatus ?  Si on ne fait pas la liaison mais que l'on met le _l'_, il n'y a plus de hiatus non plus…


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## OLN

Les deux versions étant correctes, se pose éventuellement la question du L euphonique. Il y a un hiatus si on prononce "fut une" sans faire la liaison, ce qui peut amener à opter pour la version "fut* l'*une". Never mind.


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