# Zanj etymology



## CitizenEmpty

What is the etymology of Zanj? I know that it influenced the name of Zanzibar, an island in eastern part of Africa. And would the word, Zanj have a Hebrew or Hindi, or any cognates?


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## Maroseika

According to my source, Zanzibar < Persian Zengibar < zengi (black-skinned) and bar (place, country).


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## CitizenEmpty

Maroseika said:


> According to my source, Zanzibar < Persian Zengibar < zengi (black-skinned) and bar (place, country).



Would "zengi" mean something like "black", "dark", or "burnt"?


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## Treaty

_zang _in Persian means (metallic) "stain" but I've not seen it being used for the colour black or brown. In regard to humans _zang_ and its adjective _zangī(g)_ were used for black _Africans_ (not other dark-skinned people). 

bār meant "shore" in Middle Persian. So, _zangbār _apparently means "the coast of black people".


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## CitizenEmpty

Treaty said:


> _zang _in Persian means (metallic) "stain" but I've not seen it being used for the colour black or brown. In regard to humans _zang_ and its adjective _zangī(g)_ were used for black _Africans_ (not other dark-skinned people).



I think we need to look into Middle Persian or Old Persian to figure this out.


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## Maroseika

Treaty said:


> _zang _in Persian means (metallic) "stain" but I've not seen it being used for the colour black or brown. In regard to humans _zang_ and its adjective _zangī(g)_ were used for black _Africans_ (not other dark-skinned people).


"Stained" seems very probable name for the dark-skinned people. It would be interesting to find real evidence of such usage in the far past.

By the way, what is the origin of the dynasty name Zangid? Is it a nickname of its founder Imad ad-Din Zengi somehow connected with his dark skin or something like that, or it has quite different origin?



> bār meant "shore" in Middle Persian. So, _zangbār _apparently means "the coast of black people".


I also encountered version about Arabic barr - shore. Is this word loaned to Persian from Arabic or vice versa?


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## fdb

Maroseika said:


> I also encountered version about Arabic barr - shore. Is this word loaned to Persian from Arabic or vice versa?



Arabic barr “open country, outside, land (as opposed to sea)” is not the same word as Persian bār “shore”.

The geographic name Zang goes back at least to Ptolemy and is presumably an old native name for the people of East Africa. It has nothing to do with Persian zang “rust”.


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## Wolverine9

fdb said:


> Arabic barr “open country, outside, land (as opposed to sea)” is not the same word as Persian bār “shore”.
> 
> The geographic name Zang goes back at least to Ptolemy and is presumably an old native name for the people of East Africa. It has nothing to do with Persian zang “rust”.



So is _Zanj _an Arabicized spelling that was falsely defined as "black"?


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## marrish

^ As you know Arabic doesn't sport 'g' sound.


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## fdb

Wolverine9 said:


> So is _Zanj _an Arabicized spelling that was falsely defined as "black"?



Zanj means "a Black person". It is an ethnic term, not a colour word.


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## CitizenEmpty

Perhaps "zanj" is of Bantu or Cushtic origin.


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## mataripis

CitizenEmpty said:


> Perhaps "zanj" is of Bantu or Cushtic origin.


I remember the archaic Tagalog word written in the Holy scriptures that described stain or rust that eat metallic objects. It is "Tanga'.pronounced with glotal stop.z is t and j is g.but it sounds like "sanga" (branch) and I want to check out the position of zansibar island if it appeared as branched out from mainland.


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## CitizenEmpty

mataripis said:


> I remember the archaic Tagalog word written in the Holy scriptures that described stain or rust that eat metallic objects. It is "Tanga'.pronounced with glotal stop.z is t and j is g.but it sounds like "sanga" (branch) and I want to check out the position of zansibar island if it appeared as branched out from mainland.



Can you elaborate more? What is this Holy scripture that you are referring to?


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## CitizenEmpty

But exactly when did people in the Dal-al-Islam region use the term Zanj?


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## mataripis

CitizenEmpty said:


> Can you elaborate more? What is this Holy scripture that you are referring to?


I am sorry I forgot the exact book and verse. But it is about wealth on earth and in heaven. It says, earth's riches like gold can be eaten by rust? Unlike riches in my kindom, they will last for ever.


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## CitizenEmpty

mataripis said:


> I am sorry I forgot the exact book and verse. But it is about wealth on earth and in heaven. It says, earth's riches like gold can be eaten by rust? Unlike riches in my kindom, they will last for ever.



Thank you anyways.

I now think that Zanj is a Bantu word that means something like "dark person". With the help of my poor Swahili knowledge, I think it would sound similar to the Swahili singular word "ji-nyeusi". "Ji" is the noun class prefix for "manufactured goods" since slaves weren't treated as people in the past. (Slavery is not good.) "Nyeusi" would mean dark or a dark "thing" in Swahili. "Ji" would become "za/ze/zi" and "nyeusi" would be "nj" as "s" would be affricated into an English /dj/ pronunciation.

Of course. I know this is a very poor speculation.


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## fdb

CitizenEmpty said:


> But exactly when did people in the Dal-al-Islam region use the term Zanj?



Since (at the latest) the time of the Zanj rebellion in Southern Iraq (AD 869–883).


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## Lukindo

The original Swahili, which are the Bantu people that populated Zanzibar along with much of the Eastern African coast, called themselves Wangozi. The root of this word is 'ngozi," meaning skin. The prefix "wa" is reserved for people (pl (the prefix for singular person is "m" - Mngozi). Thus Wangozi would literally mean the people of the skin. The meaning of the word can be extended depending on the prefix. For example, adding  the prefix "za" to -ngozi would simply mean "of the skin." Also, their language would be called Kingozi following the rules of Bantu grammar. I think Zanj, or Zanji as some pronounce, is a corruption of the name the original Swahilis used for themselves, namely Ngozi. If it took on other meanings related to darkness, it must have been because the Swahili were dark-skinned people.


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## Lubadeter

According to wiktionnary 

"From Middle Persian _*zang_, reconstructible based on attested Middle Persian [script needed] (zngyk' /zangīg/, “Black person”). Beyond this, it is probably related to Ancient Greek _Ἀζανία_ (Azanía), the name for an East African region in the first century AD, and to Ancient Greek _Ζήγγισα_ (Zḗngisa), the Greek name of a cape in what is now southern Somalia. It may ultimately be the name of some local group."


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