# 屋(子) / 房(子)



## yuechu

大家好，

I noticed that the word 屋（子） in the dictionary means either "house" or "room". How do you know which one it's referring to usually? Is the meaning "house" here common? (I think I've only heard 屋 used to refer to "room")
Thanks/谢谢！


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## Messquito

Normally, 一間屋子 means a place indoor constructed for one living unit. It could be a house, an apartment (by apartment I mean "a suite of rooms forming one residence", sometimes a building contains a number of these),  a cabin（木屋）, a kennel （狗屋）, etc.
(Note that we don't use 屋 for a hotel room, which I guess is because it's not for living but only staying. We use 房間 instead.)
I think there's no such use where 屋 means room in modern usage. In old, ancient usage, I think it could mean a division in a big house such as a palace or something.


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## yuechu

Messquito said:


> I think there's no such use where 屋 means room in modern usage.


Thanks for your reply, Messquito! I did hear 屋 meaning "room" in a  TV show today. (Person A was asking Person B where Person C was and they  said that she在屋, if I remember the situation correctly. But maybe they just meant that she was in the apartment. I could have misinterpreted it!) And I think  I've heard people say "我要回屋" (to go back to their room).

Maybe I am not remembering correctly because of the definition I saw in the dictionary. Does anyone else know if 屋 is used to mean "room" in modern Chinese?


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## fyl

To me 屋 does mean room. You are right with 我要回屋.
It seems there are dialectal differences.


> 一般印象，北方汉语称住房为“房、房子”，南方方言称住房为“屋”。
> 房子内部的房间北方多说“屋子”、南方多说“房、房间”，


This is from a blog http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4b41fa860102uxyl.html by 郑张尚芳, a famous linguist.


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## Messquito

To me, 我要回屋(裡去) means "I am going back indoors" 在屋(裡) means "indoor".
And to mean go back to the room I would say 回房/回房間/回房裡/回房間裡.
And, yes, there must be a dialectal difference here, because I am from Taiwan, which is near the south of China. My understanding of 屋 and 房 is similar to what fyl said , in the quote, about people from the south part of China. 
(BTW, we understand 屋 as only "house" but understand 房 as either "house" or "room")


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## SuperXW

Messquito said:


> I think there's no such use where 屋 means room in modern usage. In old, ancient usage, I think it could mean a division in a big house such as a palace or something.


As discussed, there may be regional difference. As far as I know, 屋 is more common for a room, while 房 is more for a house.

I don't think there's a simple rule to tell whether it means a room or a house in my experience. It depends on the context.


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## retrogradedwithwind

To me, 
When I am outside a house, 我要回屋去 means I am going into the house.
When I am in the living room, iI will say 我回我自己的屋／房间 if I want to go back to my room.

When referring to a house or an apartment, 房子is the most used. 屋 is by contrast used to indicate a smaller house such as kennel cabin and other similar places.


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## Skatinginbc

這屋子通風良好 vs. 這房子通風良好; 這屋子擠滿了人 vs. 這房子擠滿了人; 參觀你的屋子 vs 參觀你的房子 ==> Unless  there is further information to indicate otherwise, I would intuitively  interpret 屋子 as "room, chamber" and 房子 as "dwelling, building".

房子 ≠ 房(間) "room, chamber" (e.g., 雅房出租 "room for rent", 客房 "guest room").
屋子 ≠ 屋(宇) "house, shelter" (e.g., 吉屋出租 "house for rent", 鬼屋 "haunted house").

回你房去 "Go back to your room".
屋 originally meant "awning, tent" 幄, carrying the connotation of "roof" 幕 and "shelter".  It also meant "chariot's roof" 車蓋 in ancient times.  To me, 回你屋去 would imply that the speaker and you don't live under the same "_roof_" (literally), that is, there are at least two _detached_ units of accommodation even if you share the same address.  回你屋去 meaning "go back to your room" may be considered dialectal.


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## M Mira

I'm rather certain that using 屋 to describe a building is a common, or even default, usage in Mandarin: 小木屋 cabin, 冰屋 igloo, 石板屋 slate house, 茅草屋 straw hut, 鬼屋 haunted house, 長屋 longhouse, 愛屋及烏.

房, on the other hand, is rather complicated: 加護病房 ICU, 產房 delivery room, 廚房 kitchen, but 茅房 outhouse, 廠房 factory, 房地產 real estates.


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## Skatinginbc

M Mira said:


> 茅房 outhouse, 廠房 factory, 房地產 real estates.


茅房 = 廁所
廠房 = 工廠裡生產物品的地方
They both denote a space or "room" (in its broad sense) used for a particular purpose.  A manufacturing plant that includes washrooms, kitchens, and so forth would be called 工廠, not 廠房.    
房地產 is a short form for 房屋或土地方面的不動產.
  I think the default meaning of 房 is "room".  There are of course exceptions (e.g., 樓房、平房) in which 房 is a short form for 房屋/房子.


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## fyl

So far I don't think there is a default or universally agreed way to distinguish 房 and 屋, since dialectal differences really exist.

In northern China, a traditional living unit contains 正房, 厢房, 茅房, etc. All of them are separated buildings surrounding a yard.
Inside 正房, there are 堂屋, 东屋, 西屋, which are different rooms in one building.
Even in modern apartments, my parents will still call the bedrooms 东屋, 西屋, 北屋, depending on where the rooms are, and call the garage built outside the building 偏房.

As for the fixed words like 病房/厂房/楼房/厨房/茅房/书房/木屋/鬼屋/.., probably they each has an etymological story and somehow became popular in all dialects and all forms of buildings.


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## Skatinginbc

房 goes by the 戶 "household" radical.  房 = 戶 + 方 (Note: 方 means "room" in  Archaic Chinese, e.g., 《墨子·備城門》週垣之高八尺, 五十步一方), that is,  房 =  戶內之一方也 "a  room or enclosed space designated for a particular purpose in a  household".  So we have 正房、厢房、臥房、書房、廚房、茶房、炕房、茅房、櫃房、庫房、車房、柴房、花房、健身房, etc.  房 can also refer to a division or branch of a household, for instance, 大房、小房、堂房、遠房。  敬事房 (cf. 御膳房、上書房) is a division of labor in the imperial household. 

屋 goes by the 尸  radical, which is a pictogram for "building" (說文解字: 象屋形) or, in my  opinion, for "roofed or covered structure" such as 屇 "cave" and 屏 "cover".  Water leaking from the roof is 屚; living in a sheltered place is 居.  A floor serving as the roof of another floor is a 層; a covered drawer or a drawer serving as the top cover of another drawer is a 屜.  段玉裁說文解字注: 屋者，室之覆也。引申之凡覆於上者皆曰屋。 Terms referring to the structure of a house usually contain 屋 (e.g., 屋頂, 屋梁, 屋脊, 屋簷, 屋翼, 屋除, 屋瓦).  Apparently, 屋 concerns "building" or architecture, whereas 房  concerns "room" or segment of a household. 

Thus without contextual information, I would intuitively interpret 房 as "room" and 屋 as "house" _by default_  in the following pairs: 空房 "empty room" vs. 空屋 "empty house", 新房 "room  for the newly-wed" vs. 新屋 "new house", 有房出租 "room for rent" vs. 有屋出租  "house for rent", 一人住一房 "one person occupying a room" vs. 一人住一屋  "one  person occupying a house".

Due to borrowing from other dialects, the opposite interpretations (e.g., 屋子 "room", 房子 "building") also exist, adding complexity to the Chinese language.


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## fyl

Skatinginbc said:


> 空房 "empty room" vs. 空屋 "empty house", 新房 "room for the newly-wed" vs. 新屋 "new house", 有房出租 "room for rent" vs. 有屋出租 "house for rent", 一人住一房 "one person occupying a room" vs. 一人住一屋 "one person occupying a house".


Well, this is exactly the opposite to my intuition except 新房/新屋 (新房 is the new apartment for newly-wed and 新屋 is alien to me). Interesting..



Skatinginbc said:


> the opposite interpretations also exist, adding complexity to the Chinese language.


Same here, e.g. 洞房 means a room regardless of what 新房 is.

It sounds reasonable that 房 refers to a "division" of a 戶, and 屋 emphasizes on "covered". But how the meaning develops can be complicated.
Traditionally, one household lives in a yard instead of one building, so 正房、廂房、茅房 were different buildings. Words related to construction, e.g. 蓋房, 扒(means 拆)房, 瓦房, 磚房, 土房, are all about one or more of these buildings, and they may have made the connection between 房 and building more solid.
To me, 屋 can be used as "indoor" (e.g. #7 retrogradedwithwind's post), or small buildings with just one room (e.g. 小木屋, 茅屋). Basically to me it seems 屋 is an indoor space without emphasizing on the inside structure, so it is more like 室(room).
When it comes to etymologies, things are all up to explanations.


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## Skatinginbc

fyl said:


> this is exactly the opposite to my intuition


Then you've successfully convinced me that there is no such thing as a "default" interpretation.  It is largely dialectal.


fyl said:


> 蓋房, 扒(means 拆)房, 瓦房, 磚房, 土房


蓋屋 (= 蓋房子), 拆屋 (= 拆房子), 瓦屋, 磚屋, 土屋 ; 冰屋 igloo vs. 冰房 a room for storing ice.
名古屋 "famous old house"; 名古房 never heard of.
單人房 "single room", not 單人屋; 雙人房 "double room", not 雙人屋.


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