# EN: Paul et Jean, eux, (ils) sont allés - contrastive use of the complement pronouns



## cmarcov

Hello everyone, 

I have some problems figuring out how to translate "eux" (or "lui") when it is in apposition, like in a sentence as let's says:
"Paul et Jean, eux, sont allés au magasin." I'm not sure about the correct translation for that. I try 

Paul and John, them, they went to the store. 

But I'm really not sure that is the right way to translate that. And I don't want something like:
As for Paul and John, they went…, which is not exactly the same thing.
Thanks for any help

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.


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## BillyTheBanana

In English we just use vocal intonation to stress something, usually represented by italics:

"So did Alice go to the store?"
"No, _Paul and John_ went to the store."

That doesn't really work for formal writing though, in which case I might translate it as

Paul and John were the ones who went to the store.

or

It was Paul and John who went to the store.


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## cmarcov

Hi everyone,
Ok, but that is not exactly the translation that I'm looking for. In fact, 
"Paul and John were the ones who went to the store" 
would be, in French: 
"Paul et Jean sont ceux qui sont allés au magasin", 
meaning that among the people who were there, for instance, Paul and John were the ones... 
As for the second "It was Paul and John who went to the store", it would translate as "Ce sont Paul et Jean qui sont…" which is just about as closely related to the first sentence in French as is it in English, more or less. What I'm trying to translate is a form of emphasis, I guess, on the subject, like is I'd say "Paul, lui est heureux." How would I translate that: 
"Paul, him, he is happy." or simply "Paul, he's happy." 
My case is a little hard to explain, but if I could get some more answers, I'll know when I get exactly what I'm looking for. 
Thanks for your help...


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## BigRedDog

What about:

Paul and John went to the store, (these two) they did!


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## GEmatt

Is your original sentence (in French) complete?  I'm not sure where the emphasis is - whether it is on Paul and John (as opposed to someone else), or on the store (as opposed to some other location).  A conjunction might help convey that emphasis in English, since use of the pronoun does not work.

Laura went to the cinema, _whereas_ Paul and John went to the store.
Laura est allée au cinéma, _alors que_ Paul et Jean, _eux_, sont allés au magasin.

I don't know if that helps - perhaps if you could give a couple more sample sentences, to get a better sense of what you want to say?


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## BigRedDog

A typical example would be:

- Tu prendras mon vélo.
- Mais Papa, Paul et John, *eux *ils ont pris la voiture!
ou encore
- Mais Papa, Paul et John, ils ont pris la voiture, *eux *!


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## Suehil

In that case it would be done with emphasis in the voice.  In written English a 'but' at the beginning of the sentence would be enough.


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## bloomiegirl

cmarcov said:


> [...] "Paul et Jean, eux, sont allés au magasin." I'm not sure about the correct translation for that. I try
> Paul and John, them, they went to the store.
> 
> But I'm really not sure that is the right way to translate that. And I don't want something like:
> As for Paul and John, they went…,  which is not exactly the same thing. [...]





cmarcov said:


> [...] What I'm trying to translate is a form of emphasis, I guess, on the subject, like is I'd say "Paul, lui est heureux." How would I translate that:
> "Paul, him, he is happy." or simply "Paul, he's happy." [...]



These are disjunctive pronouns - aka stressed pronouns - used for emphasis.

But -- maybe it's just me -- I wouldn't use an object pronoun (e.g., him, them) as the subject of the sentence, not even for emphasis.


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## calembourde

Unfortunately, we don't really have a way to say this just with words (apart from the ways with extra phrases which you said you don't want.) You really need to use your voice or italics for emphasis. I would translate them as 'they' and 'he' and put emphasis on those words.

Paul and John, _they_ went to the store.
Now Paul, _he_ is happy.


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## Maître Capello

What about _as for X_?

_Peter came by car. *As for* Mike and John, they came by bus._


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## cmarcov

Thanks everyone for all your answers.

Bloomiegirl, you are right about the disjunctive pronouns, my example with "him" was wrong, i just wasn't sure about it, but now I know, thanks.

And Maître Capella, your answer also suits me, I had tought about it also. It is not exactly, exactly the same thing as what I have in French, but close. "As for" would be rather: 
As for Peter = Quant à Pierre, …
but my sentence doesn't express completely that emphasis. Still, it's a good way of going around the difficulty without altering the meaning too much.

Thanks.


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## spootnikk

Hi,

What about using "do" ?

=>"John and Paul did go to the store"?


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## Maître Capello

spootnikk said:


> What about using "do" ?
> 
> =>"John and Paul did go to the store"?



Non, car avec _do_ tu insistes sur le verbe et non sur le sujet de la phrase…


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## Yuukan

Hi!

Eux is a pronoun, but how can I translate this:

" Eux, ils aiment nager."

They, They like to swim???

is correct??

Thanks!


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## Jan in California

In spoken English, the pronoun is stressed by saying the pronoun once, but a little louder, and slower.  

In written English, as in a novel, it might be written with italics or bolded font: "*They* like to swim?"


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## timpeac

Jan's right - and has given a common way this is expressed in English - but to be sure you really need to provide more context since there are other ways the sense could be achieved.

By the way, I notice that you are Spanish - are you translating into English or Spanish? If the latter then you'd probably be better off asking in the French-Spanish forum since the ways that French treats this issue are different from the English which again are different from the Spanish.


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## Road to Jacksonville

It's not my native language, but can't we add an expression such:
"Those one, they like to swim" ?


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## Angle O'Phial

> They, They like to swim


Is a literal translation but is not idomatically correct in English. The _eux_ is there for emphasis. Perhaps a good English translation would be:

_Those guys like to swim._



> Those one, they like to swim.


Nope, can't repeat the subject like that in English.


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## timpeac

Road to Jacksonville said:


> It's not my native language, but can't we add an expression such:
> "Those ones, they like to swim" ?


 It would be a very unusual thing to say in English, whereas the French construction is very common. Jan is right - usually we'd stress the pronoun "*I* like to swim but *he* likes to fish", but really without more context we're all guessing in the dark.


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## Jan in California

Road to Jacksonville said:


> It's not my native language, but can't we add an expression such:
> "Those one, they like to swim" ?


 
No, doesn't sound English.  But you could say, "They're the ones that like to swim."


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## Yuukan

Thanks for your help 

I´m translating into english

so, I think is the same case to:

Toi, tu joues au tennis  / you play tennis

thanks!!


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## dandanaz

In standard written English it is incorrect to state the subject more than once.

My friend, he likes to swim.  
My friend likes to swim. 

Sarah and I, we like to swim.  
Sarah and I like to swim.  

The subject can be made emphatic or contrastive using intonation or italics, as Jan said.  If you really want to make it explicit, you can add a phrase such as:

"They, on the other hand, like to swim."


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## johnL

But it all comes back to context, because it would be very common to say something like this:
"We hate the water. Them, they like to swim."
The "Them, they" stresses the fact that you're talking about a different group from "we."


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