# You have the same dog as my cousin



## kloie

I would like to know How would i say This in talking about female cousin.
Thanks in advance


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## Frank78

Du hast den gleichen Hund wie meine Cousine.

Cousine - female cousin
Cousin - male cousin


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## StryKeRneL

Mein Wörterbuch hat auch:

Kusine - female cousin
Vetter - male cousin


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## Hutschi

I have a question to the context:
Is it the same kind of dog or really the same dog?

In standard language:

der gleiche Hund (the same kind of dog, there are two dogs)
derselbe Hund (the same dog in the sense that there is only one dog)

In colloquial language and especially in the south both words are mixed.


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## Frank78

Hutschi said:


> I have a question to the context:
> Is it the same kind of dog or really the same dog?
> 
> In standard language:
> 
> der gleiche Hund (the same kind of dog, there are two dogs)
> derselbe Hund (the same dog in the sense that there is only one dog)
> 
> In colloquial language and especially in the south both words are mixed.



In English one does not distinguish between "derselbe" and "der gleiche". Both is "the same"


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## mannibreuckmann

Frank78 said:


> In English one does not distinguish between "derselbe" and "der gleiche". Both is "the same"



Merkwürdig, dass es sich die Englischsprachigen leisten können, "derselbe" und "der gleiche" in einen Topf zu werfen!


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## dec-sev

I would say "I have a dog_* like*_ yours" to express "der gleiche" to avoid misunderstanding . 
By the way:


> I would like to know How would i say This in talking about female cousin.


 I'm not in the position to question an English native, but I would say "... to know how I would..." I mean "I" must go first, I believe.


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## Hutschi

Frank78 said:


> In English one does not distinguish between "derselbe" and "der gleiche". Both is "the same"



That is why I asked. It is a translation to German. So it is necessary to consider it.

By the way, the difference between "derselbe" and "der gleiche" exists in the standard language.

In some regions they are synonyms in the coll. language. 

I have every times difficulties to use the correct word.

"Es gab heute dasselbe/das gleiche wie gestern." - I do not feel a difference.


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## sdgraham

Hutschi said:


> I have a question to the context:
> Is it the same kind of dog or really the same dog?



Dieselbe Rasse, vielleicht?


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## dec-sev

sdgraham said:


> Dieselbe Rasse, vielleicht?


 Why to re-invent the wheel. There is the word "gleich" in German.


Hutschi said:


> Is it the same kind of dog or really the same dog?


 Take a look at the original phrase: " You have the same dog as my cousin" How can you have the same (denselben Hund) dog as your cousin?  The only possibility of "derselbe" is you and your cousin live together and you own one and the same dog.


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## Arrius

To a native English speaker, the thread sentence has only one meaning: both people have a dog of the same breed and possibly size. No misunderstanding ever occurs in my experience for the lack of equivalents for the pair _gleich _and _derselbe._ Nobody would ever say this sentence meaning  joint ownership of only one dog. The Dutch, understandly, have equivalents of these two words, but they appear to be fairly interchangeable, As for the other languages I am familiar with, even Arabic, they also get along without two separate words to make the distinction.


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## mannibreuckmann

Arrius said:


> To a native English speaker, the thread sentence has only one meaning: both people have a dog of the same breed and possibly size. No misunderstanding ever occurs in my experience for the lack of equivalents for the pair _gleich _and _derselbe._ Nobody would ever say this sentence meaning  joint ownership of only one dog. The Dutch, understandly, have equivalents of these two words, but they appear to be fairly interchangeable, As for the other languages I am familiar with, even Arabic, they also get along without two separate words to make the distinction.



Genau so ist es, und auch der Duden sieht es so:

Für die Praxis spielt es in der Regel keine Rolle, ob "dasselbe" oder "das gleiche" benutzt wird - es ergibt sich normalerweise aus dem Kontext, ob eine Identität oder die Übereinstimmung der Gattung gemeint ist.

Wie auch hier: "derselbe Hund" würde sich logischerweise auf die Übereinstimmung der Gattung beziehen, da es sehr unwahrscheinlich ist, dass sich die beiden einen Hund teilen. Es ist also schlicht überflüssig, auf die Verwendung von "der gleiche Hund" zu bestehen.


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## Meyer Wolfsheim

In English, I think, if you really wanted to express the difference which the two German words do, you would have to construct it like this:

I have the same dog as my cousin.  (My dog is the same breed as that of her's)

I own the (very) same dog that my cousin does/owns  (here it suggest that the ownership of the dog is shared, the 'very' really avoids any question)


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## Frank78

Some people do distinguish between "derselbe" und "der gleiche" some do not. I don´t like such general statements as "it plays no role in everyday speech". Usually the higher the eductation the more likely people distinguish between those two forms.


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## Hutschi

For me it is the same - and the context makes it clear what is meant, but there are a lot of people correcting me. Basically that is why I wrote about it.


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## Andres_RoCa

dec-sev said:


> Take a look at the original phrase: " You have the same dog as my cousin" How can you have the same (denselben Hund) dog as your cousin?  The only possibility of "derselbe" is you and your cousin live together and you own one and the same dog.


 

What Kloie meant is clear, but it's good to know the difference between those two words, for those who didn't before.


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## dec-sev

Andres_RoCa said:


> What Kloie meant is clear,


Take a look at what Hutschi wrote in his post #4:


> I have a question to the context:
> Is it the same kind of dog or really the same dog?


 But frankly speaking, I guess Hutschi knew that it was about two different dogs, and his question was a sort of preface to _derselbe _vs. _der gleiche_ explanation.


Andres_RoCa said:


> ...but it's good to know the difference between those two words, for those who didn't before.


 If you're talking about _derselbe _vs. _der gleiche_ I agree with you. And although some people don't distinguish between the two one must know the difference, I believe.


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## se16teddy

Yes, there is a difference between _numerically identical_ and _qualitatively identical_. 

If we are talking about numerical identity, _You have the same dog as my cousin_ means 
- *either* you and my cousin share a single dog, 
- *or* my cousin is a dog and you have him/her. 

If we are talking about qualitative identity, _You have the same dog as my cousin_ means that your dog and my cousin's dog are similar in appearance, breed etc.


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## Unbedingt

StryKeRneL said:


> Mein Wörterbuch hat auch:
> 
> Kusine - female cousin
> Vetter - male cousin


 

Was ist denn der Unterschied zwischen Vetter und Cousin? Ich bin nicht sicher, aber ich denke, heutzutage benutzt man nur Cousin, und nicht Vetter, aber, Kusine?


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## ablativ

Cousin (französisch ausgesprochen) = Vetter

Cousine (Kusine) = Base

Vetter und Base sind nicht mehr sehr gebräuchlich. Vorzugsweise sagt man Cousin und Cousine.


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## Frank78

ablativ said:


> Cousin (französisch ausgesprochen) = Vetter
> 
> Cousine (franz. ausgespr.) = Base
> 
> Vetter und Base sind nicht mehr sehr gebräuchlich. Vorzugsweise sagt man Cousin und Cousine.



Oder Sächsisch: Kuseng und Kusine 

Die französische Aussprache klingt hier eher hochnäsig.


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## ablativ

Frank78 said:


> Oder Sächsisch: Kuseng und Kusine
> 
> Die französische Aussprache klingt hier eher hochnäsig.



I agree   . Kuseng sieht eher wie chinesische Aussprache aus   .

Ich sage aber auch "Kuseng". Es sollte nicht englisch ausgesprochen werden, meinte ich mit franz. Ausspr.


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## sokol

ablativ said:


> Ich sage aber auch "Kuseng". Es sollte nicht englisch ausgesprochen werden, meinte ich mit franz. Ausspr.


In Deutschland "Kuseng", ja - doch in Österreich nur in französischer Aussprache, mit Nasalvokal. 

I'm writing this in English here too so that there can't be a misunderstanding as some contributors here are learners of German: in Austria the "French" pronunciation of "Cousin" is used = [ku'sœ̃], in Germany however [ku'sɛŋ] dominates now (once was considered colloquial but this isn't the case anymore in Germany - while in Austria the [ɛŋ] pronunciation is perceived as foreign).


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## Derselbe

Frank78 said:


> Some people do distinguish between "derselbe" und "der gleiche" some do not. I don´t like such general statements as "it plays no role in everyday speech". Usually the higher the eductation the more likely people distinguish between those two forms.




Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I've never been bothered on that by a highly educated person. Usually the people who harp on about derselbe/der gleiche are far from being high educated, but rather try to show off something not existent. I used the phrase "Deutschprollen für Anfänger".

As Arrius pointed out, no English native would ever missunderstand such a sentence. And neither would a single German native.


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## mannibreuckmann

Derselbe said:


> Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I've never been bothered on that by a highly educated person. Usually the people who harp on about derselbe/der gleiche are far from being high educated, but rather try to show off something not existent. I used the phrase "Deutschprollen für Anfänger".
> 
> As Arrius pointed out, no English native would ever missunderstand such a sentence. And neither would a single German native.



That's exactly what I think about it.


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## ablativ

Derselbe said:


> Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I've never been bothered on that by a highly educated person. Usually the people who harp on about derselbe/der gleiche are far from being high educated, but rather try to show off something not existent. I used the phrase "Deutschprollen für Anfänger".
> 
> As Arrius pointed out, no English native would ever missunderstand such a sentence. And neither would a single German native.



Far from being educated? I think (highly) educated people won't talk about such things - they just apply grammar and words correctly by doing it instictively. That has nothing to do with "showing off" - they just would have to force themselves to grammatically wrong langugage, and nobody likes to be forced. Do people really think someone to be be snobbish just because of their attempt to speak correcly? Anyways - I agree with Frank78 on this topic.


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## Derselbe

ablativ said:


> Do people really think someone to be be snobbish just because of their attempt to speak correcly?



Not at all! We're not talking about people who distinguish between derselbe/der gleiche in whatever way they think is correct. I didn't mean to address those people (including you)

We're talking about conversations like this:

Me: "Ist das derselbe Wein wie letzte Woche?"
A: "Nein, es ist der gleiche."

I usually don't have conversations like this with people whose German language skills I'd call impressive. That's all I wanted to say. Sorry for the confusion.


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## ablativ

Derselbe said:


> We're talking about conversations like this:
> 
> Me: "Ist das derselbe Wein wie letzte Woche?"
> A: "Nein, es ist der gleiche."
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.




Right you are - just a little misunderstanding!


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