# Attached please find / Please find attached



## amandaincanada

Which is better, in the context of a more formal or business email tone, when sending a little email prompting readers to open an attached document?

1. Please find attached the new Word document.

2. Attached please find the new Word document.

My boss and I have been rowing over this for a while now. I personally am for #2, as the syntax of #1 ("Please find attached") seems way off - to me it sounds clunkier and more like a direct translation from the French equivalent. But my boss doesn't believe me and persists on sending #1 to all of our most important clients. Thanks!


----------



## difficult cuss

I would always use 1, like this...
Please find attached, the new Word document
the 2nd example makes me think of Yoda in the Star Wars films


----------



## Anais Ninn

I would use 1. It reads better, I think.

Anais


----------



## amandaincanada

I always liked Yoda.
Thanks for your input even though you all sided with my boss.


----------



## MissFit

I'm on your side, Amandaincanada.  I prefer #2 because I think it flows better, and it is simply the way I always heard it in typing class in high school (many years ago) and in my earlier years in the business world.  However, both versions are now rather old-fashioned.  I perused the keyboarding textbook that is used in the high school where I work now, and I could not find a sample memo or e-mail with either "Attached please find" or "Please find attached."

It seems that modern business communication favors more modern, straightforward language such as these examples:
_I have attached the new Word document._
_The new Word document is attached._
_Please take a look at the attached Word document._
_Replace the old Word document with the new one which is attached._
_You will find the new Word document attached to this e-mail._


----------



## Anais Ninn

I've just googled the two, out of curiosity, and "Attached please find" got 249,000 hits while "Please find attached." got 690,000, if that tells you anything. 

Anais


----------



## difficult cuss

Googling isn't really to be trusted, unless of course it agrees with me and this time it does. Well done Google!


----------



## Anais Ninn

difficult cuss said:


> Googling isn't really to be trusted, unless of course it agrees with me and this time it does. Well done Google!


----------



## amandaincanada

MissFit, thank you for that post. Not because you sided with me, but because you gave me some great suggestions for changing how we phrase that sentence in emails. I often find that the language we use at my company is too stiff/old fashioned/awkward. I think its partly because our Marketing dept is run by native French speakers who learned English (British, since we're in Canada) as a 2nd language 20-30 years ago. They have a hard time believing me when I make suggestions to have things sound less awkward or stiff, while still remaining appropriate for today's business world, because it sometimes goes against what they learned. I also have a hard time because I'm an American and most of our clients are American, yet surprisingly there is a language barrier between Cdn and American  English... so it requires them to trust me on things sometimes, which they often opt not to do.  anyways, I digress. 

What is the title of the book that you got the sample memos from?

Also, I did the same thing and googled both phrases. Both seem well enough used to be correct, but I agree its always best to err on using whatever is more frequently used. However, after thinking about these two sentences so much I am beginning to believe that both sound too formal and somewhat awkward and there must be a better sentence to use.


----------



## winklepicker

difficult cuss said:


> I would always use 1, like this...
> Please find attached, the new Word document
> the 2nd example makes me think of Yoda in the Star Wars films


 
And it makes me think of some dusty clerk from the 19th century. Sorry!


----------



## JamesM

Well, if you're going for modernity, why not "I have attached the new Word document'? "Please find attached" (or "Attached please find") is also outdated, but very common in business letters still to this day.


----------



## river

Business-writing texts have consistently condemned the phrase *Enclosed please find;* *please find enclosed* since the the late 19th century. These are archaic deadwood for _here are_, _enlosed is_, _I've enclosed_, _I am enclosing. . . (Garner's Modern American Usage)_

As Miss Fit and Winklepicker suggest, the same would be said of *attached please find; please find attached*.


----------



## winklepicker

JamesM said:


> Well, if you're going for modernity, why not "I have attached the new Word document'? "Please find attached" (or "Attached please find") is also outdated, but very common in business letters still to this day.


 
Yes, this is much better.


----------



## MissFit

amandaincanada said:


> What is the title of the book that you got the sample memos from?


_Century 21 Keyboarding and Information Processing_ published by Southwestern Educational Publishing, Inc.  It's at least six years old.  I didn't make a very thorough search, so I can't say that those phrases never appeared in the book.


----------



## SimpleEnglish

Well, the key question is what do you want the receiver to do once they find the attached document? We need to indicate the action that is expected from them.
Most often, we want them to review the document.
Hence, I would write as 'Please review the attached document'.

Now, I was thinking about documents like status reports. We just want to file it off and ideally do not want to invite review comments on them. One can still write it as 'Please review the attached weekly status report'. But then, I really do not want them to review it! 
Any ideas for this?


----------



## Packard

In 1965 I took a typing class in High School in preparation for college.  They taught, "Attached please find..."

It sounded awkward to me, but it was apparently business-lingo.


----------



## EnglishMan_In_France

amandaincanada said:


> 1. Please find attached the new Word document.
> 2. Attached please find the new Word document.


Aaarghh, both are terrible, but n°2 is more like a translation from French IMHO, and n°1 is the real thing... used a lot less today, you won't find any "chav" using it though 
------------


river said:


> _here are_, _enclosed is_, _I've enclosed_, _I am enclosing. . . (Garner's Modern American Usage)_


Friendly is fine when it's to your team mate, or a friendly boss.
The best one there is _I'm enclosing
 e.g.__"I'm enclosing the latest figures for you."_
Can be used for customers or professional-internal, but only if you have known them for some time. But definitely not for your CV.
------------


SimpleEnglish said:


> Well, the key question is what do you want the receiver to do once they find the attached document?


Good answer! My French colleagues just want a simple replacement, but often the "rule of thumb" is just that, it really depends on the circumstances. The aim of the attachment is just as important as the attachment itself.
------------


So when it's professional you will always try to be polite, unless  (like I've already said) it's to your team mate, or a friendly boss:


_Please find __attached my CV for your attention.
(traditional and formal, can be used for your CV and wedding invites)_
_

Please find my CV attached for your attention.
(Modern formal, better than the traditional version)
__[when you sign your email "yours sincerely/_faithfully_ and best regards"]_


_I've attached...__I'm enclosing... the latest figures for you.
(Modern business, for friendly associates/colleagues)
[when you sign your email "best regards/regards/nothing"]


Here's that excel file that you wanted.
(Modern-casual, for team mates)__
[when you sign your email "regards/thanks/nothing"]_


----------



## sourcherry

> In 1965 I took a typing class in High School in  preparation for college. They taught, "Attached please find..."
> 
> It  sounded awkward to me, but it was apparently business-lingo.



Yes, it is business lingo.  I always thought it sounded funny, too, but I work in finance, and it is definitely the standard opening to a business letter.


----------



## beccamutt

I work in a very corporate setting, and I very often see "attached please find/see...", and in fact use it myself.


----------



## dura

Thanks for your guidance. 

And thanks to the interesting thread you've introduced, I have another question. 

*'Attached please find'*....????

It sounds so grammatically weird. 

Does this sentence mean the same as 'please find attached'?

I thought the order of the word in English should be [Subject + Verb + Objectives], like I have dinner. 

I'm now surprised that the object can be placed at the head of the sentence. 

(Well, just for additional knowledge, in Chinese, they sometimes put the objectives at the head, but it's still happening only in verbal language.)

Is it common to place the objectives like that? 

P.S I think I should have added the quote below the thread you've shown, but other quotes there are too old... So I just decided to add the quote here. Would it be OK?

<< Moderator's note: 
I have moved this post to the thread on this topic.  
Remember, we have a one topic-per-thread rule. 
We don't mind new posts on old threads. >>


----------



## JamesM

This is an old, established phrase in business correspondence.  I don't know the origins of it but it is in common use still today in many companies. 

There is nothing inherently wrong with the grammar. It is flowery and old-fashioned but not unique in its structure.

For example: "Go to my sewing box and lift up the lid.  Inside you will find a pair of scissors I need."

"Inside" here is acting in the same way that "Attached" does in  "Attached please find".  The part that sounds a little odd to the modern ear is the "please".  It is simply more polite.  I could have said:

"Be so kind as to look in my sewing box.  Inside please find a small pair of scissors and bring them to me."


----------



## Mansi_71

Need to know about the differnce between two sentenses.
1. "Please find attached the profile of Mr.Adhi for a suitable role in your Organisation"
2. "Please find the attached profile of Mr.Adhi for a suitable role in your Organisation"


----------



## Keith Bradford

The first one is the most probable.  *Please find attached*... is a common business cliché.

_Please find the attached profile _suggests that the profile has been lost and you want the person to look for it; but how can that be, if it's attached?  It's not wrong, just a little strange.


----------



## Phil-Olly

Yes ...for me, it always conjures up an image of an extremely large mailing bag.  The recipient is being invited to rummage around in the bottom of said bag, amongst the discarded crisp packets, until they find the 'attachment'.   I was always taught to avoid it like the plague, and just use "I enclose ...."  And that was 30 years ago!


----------



## ilamos

What is difference b/w please find the attached and attached please find?


----------



## Keith Bradford

Welcome to the site, Ilamos.

I don't understand *b/w*.  Don't the answers above solve your problem?  Perhaps you've missed a word out?


----------



## ilamos

*b/w* is a short form of* between.*


----------



## Keith Bradford

OK.  I think I answered this in post #24, didn't I?


----------



## ilamos

Thank you very very much, Mr,Keith Bradford.


----------



## wordjunkie1

I was mildly chastised some years ago for using this phrase at all, since it implies one has to look for whatever is attached. I was told it is a stiff, overly formal, Victorian phrase. Now I simply say: "Attached is...." or I am attaching........................".


----------



## halmom

< This question has been added to an existing thread. Cagey, moderator. >

I am always confused about what to say when I emaile file. What is correct? If none of them is correct, what do you say?
( I wrote a reference letter for a student and  want to eamil it to someone who requested it)

Please find the attached reference letter you requested.
Please find the the reference letter I attached.


----------



## Barque

halmom said:


> Please find the attached reference letter you requested.
> Please find the the reference letter I attached.



That sounds like you're asking the recipient to go looking for the letter. 

The usual way of expressing it is: _Please find attached the... _(But it isn't as common now.)

You could also say: _The reference you requested is attached._

< Threads merged. Thank you.  Cagey, moderator. >


----------



## Marco PCA

Hi everyone, I know that this thread is a little bit old but I've read many forums and I think that the difference between *Attached please find my *_*CV for your attention *_and *Please find *_*attached my CV for your attention *is just a difference between American and British English.  Am I right?

Regards,
Marco_


----------



## Keith Bradford

No, they're both bad English, quite simply. Read post 24 above.


----------



## Marco PCA

Thank you Keith, so the best way to say that would be just "*I have attached my cv for your information...*" ?

Regards,
Marco


----------



## RM1(SS)

Or "Attached is my CV...."


Is that term used in AE?


----------



## Barque

I agree that if you don't use "attached" correctly (_Please find the attached..._ instead of _Please find attached a..._), it sounds as if you're asking the recipient to go look for the attachment. But used correctly, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, though I don't particularly like it myself. It's just a polite way of saying: "You'll find that I have attached..."


----------



## Harwagon

Resurrecting an old thread, but it's definitely number 2 haha

"Attached please find..."

I always feel old-timey when I write that, but I cringe whenever anyone sends me "Please find attached..."


----------



## Packard

In emails I write, “I have attached the quotation above.”  (My attachments alway appear in the header.)


----------



## Egmont

Harwagon said:


> Resurrecting an old thread ...  I cringe whenever anyone sends me "Please find attached..."


Again resurrecting, though it's not quite as old: I just came across a blog entitled "20 Less Annoying Synonyms and Alternatives to 'Please Find Attached.'" I recommend it to both language learners and native speakers who are tempted to use that horrid phrase. At least one of Aja Frost's alternatives is sure to be better in any situation - and probably several of them. (*Packard*'s suggestion in the post just above this one, in the form "I've attached," is #3 on her list.)


----------



## EnglishMan_In_France

TBH, I'd go with number 1
Please find attached the ....
Or less formal
I've attached the...


----------



## Packard

Egmont said:


> Again resurrecting, though it's not quite as old: I just came across a blog entitled "20 Less Annoying Synonyms and Alternatives to 'Please Find Attached.'" I recommend it to both language learners and native speakers who are tempted to use that horrid phrase. At least one of Aja Frost's alternatives is sure to be better in any situation - and probably several of them. (*Packard*'s suggestion in the post just above this one, in the form "I've attached," is #3 on her list.)


She finds the "sharing" bit acceptable.  That so much reminds me of grade school where someone started giggling in class and the teacher would say,  "Emily.  Is something funny?  Please share it with the rest of the class".

Sharing does not work for me.


----------



## Forero

Packard said:


> In emails I write, “I have attached the quotation above.”  (My attachments alway appear in the header.)


Unfortunately, attachments are not really part of the email header and they may not always be seen "above" in all email viewers.

"Attached place find" is just a way to politely ask the receiver to expect an attachment and to look for it if necessary.


----------



## Packard

If the attachment location is not above, I simply describe the location of the attached. “Attached place find” looks and sounds too much like “attached please find” and I suspect many would misread it as such.

_I have attached our quotation (just above our signature). 

or

I have attached our quotation, you will find it just above our signature._


----------



## kentix

It does depend on the recipient's mail system. You cannot count on an attachment being in a specific place. If you import a picture directly onto the page you can count on that location. But an attachment is a different animal. It goes with the page. It's not on the page.


----------



## esl1

Hi! I am sorry if this is slightly off topic but can somebody please tell me if there are any sentences in everyday life that contain the old structure of "Please find [adjective] [noun]"? 

Or is this construction only used in this particular phrase of "Please find attached..."?

Can we, for example, say:



> Please find revealed the mysterious treasures of the 15th century.





> Please find underlined these words in the sentence.


----------



## Packard

If you add a location I think it sounds better.

_Below please find the underlined sentences I am referring to.

Enclosed please find my remittance check for $120.00 (US$)._


----------



## esl1

@Packard
Thank you.

(1)I thought "to find + <adjective>" was a kind of phrasal verb.

(2)The word "attached" does not really give me a sense of location in my head.
With the word "attached", I would imagine something like this.
I.e., paperwork added together with a paper clip.





Whereas with email, I would imagine a location just below the subject line as it is like this on Outlook.


----------



## Packard

The location is "understood" to be at the location of attachments.  I think that still complies with my need for a "location".


----------

