# Feminism in your country: How's it going?



## badgrammar

I am very curious to know about how women (and men) around the world see the status of women's rights and fair treatment in their country.   How have women's roles in society evolved in your country over the last 50-100 years?  Are women still at a disadvantge vis à vis men?  Have some things changed a lot, while others have stayed the same?  Do women benefit from equal education and job oppurtunities?  Do most women work outside the home? Are they still responsable for all the housework and childcare? What associations/people/politicians are working to improve the lot (lot = situation) of women in your country? 

I am particularly interested in hearing about India, Indonesia, Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan...  I think this is a very interesting subject and probably full of many surprises.

Hope to hear from you!


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## maxiogee

Do you ask the gamekeeper how satisfied the pheasant is with its life?

You'd be advised to listen only to the reports of women.


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## badgrammar

I certainly see your point, Max, but I believe there are also men who care about women's rights and welfare.  And then, for the same reasons I enjoy listening to certain very conservative radio shows when I travel back to the US, it is a rather good way to test the temperature of society as a whole.  By hearing both the opinions you agree with, and also those you do not.

Women and men are more welcome to post here, I don't presume all men to be anti-feminist or anti-womanist.  That would be extremely sexist of me, wouldn't it ?


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## maxiogee

I didn't presume men to be anti-feminist either. 
The gamekeeper I mentioned is undoubtedly very pro-pheasant, but has a different viewpoint on what pheasantness is about and cannot presume to speak on whether conditions are as the pheasant would have them. 
This metaphor is stretching the boundaries of its thinness!


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## coconutpalm

I think women rights have been really cared for since 1949. Unfortunately, some of the fuedal thoughts are coming back these years. And yes, I have to point out that the attitudes toward equality between men and women differ in the South and the North. People in the North are more conservative.


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## cuchuflete

maxiogee said:
			
		

> I didn't presume men to be anti-feminist either.
> The gamekeeper I mentioned is undoubtedly very pro-pheasant, but has a different viewpoint on what pheasantness is about and cannot presume to speak on whether *conditions are as the pheasant would have them*.
> This metaphor is stretching the boundaries of its thinness!



Interesting point.  There are numerous varieties of feminism espoused in the US.  Some members of the stretched metaphor contingent seek equality of opportunity and rewards, as they should.  Other go beyond that to bashing whatever one calls a male pheasant.  

I look forward to the day--distant I fear--when this issue shall have been resolved, by the achievement of full equality in both opportunities and rewards (unimpeded flight paths and a fair day's pile of grubs for a day's work?).  Then the birds will be able to fly in fair flocks.  The lack of equal treatment for all feathered 
creatures creates problems for both goose and gander.


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## Agnès E.

Equality will arise the day no one will ever bother consider if the person involved is a man or a woman.


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## Fernando

I am a bit confused. Is this thread about equality among men, women and pheasants? Are we talking about the "Big Pheasant" project after the "Big Ape"? 

Please, a little help for Spanish-speakers.


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## tvdxer

badgrammar said:
			
		

> I am very curious to know about how women (and men) around  the world see the status of women's rights and fair treatment in their country.  How have women's roles in society evolved in your country over the last 50-100  years? Are women still at a disadvantge vis à vis men? Have some things changed  a lot, while others have stayed the same? Do women benefit from equal education  and job oppurtunities? Do most women work outside the home? Are they still  responsable for all the housework and childcare? What  associations/people/politicians are working to improve the lot (lot = situation)  of women in your country?
> 
> I am particularly interested in hearing about India, Indonesia, Turkey, Iraq,  Afghanistan... I think this is a very interesting subject and probably full of  many surprises.
> 
> Hope to hear from you!



 For the most part, women in the U.S. are treated as equals to men.  To speak otherwise is generally frowned upon.   However, feminism  today is little more than a perversion of what it once was, especially the third-wave "ethical slut" (a name of the book written in that genre) variety.  In the beginning of the 20th century, things like women's suffrage were at the forefront of the women's right movement; today, what descended from that group is primarily concerned with things like abortion, the "women's right to choose" (murdering her unborn child), or making sure that men and women are not only treated as equal in human dignity, but also in every mental and physical aspect, as if there is no difference between the sexes.  

Certainly, there are many areas where improvement needs to be made in our society in regard to treatment of women - domestic abuse is still quite common in some circles, women are degraded by rap lyrics and increasingly popular pornography, in many neighborhoods women do not feel safe walking the streets, sometimes even during the day, etc., but it seems as though organizations like "NOW" are more concerned with things like making sure women have access to government-paid abortion and rights to marriage for lesbians, etc., than the real issues.

I will have to admit that the feminist movement of the 1960's and 1970's did make some strides (if shows like "The 60's" are at all accurate), but they also likely made things worse for women.  For example, the devalued the most honorable role for (married) women, that of mother and housekeeper, shifting their personal self-worth to career success, and children have suffered as a result.  In fact, it seems to me that the modern/post-modern feminist movement is more anti-feminine than anything.

One American conservative, Pat Buchanan, said: "The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer.".  While I am not a fan of shopping centers or suburban sprawl, I think this statement is pretty much on target.


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## maxiogee

tvdxer, 
I think you need to be less inflammatory in the things you write.
I realise that, a bit like the child throwing its rattle out of the pram, you do it for attention, but you demean yourself by what you write.

What are we to make of your inclusion of the word "mental" in the following…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> or making sure that men and women are not only treated as equal in human dignity, but also in every mental and physical aspect, as if there is no difference between the sexes.


Whilst I would agree that not all people are equally gifted in many areas of their make-up, I would be loathe to divide them on purely gender lines. You, however, appear to think otherwise.

You remind me of my father's advice to me when I was a lot younger.
"Anthony", he said (my parents refused to recognise my choice of Tony as a name) "some people are wise, but most are otherwise."


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## Fernando

Maxiogee, if you disagree with some of tvdxer's post (I do, for the record), please, tell us which your point is. Your post is attacking tvdxer, not tvdxer's post. 

I think you are implying he is saying that men are mentally better than women. I do not think that he is saying so. If I am wrong in my interpretation on tvdxer's post or yours, let me know.


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## cuchuflete

I give heartfelt thanks to tvdxer for demonstrating with astonishing clarity why the need for many forms of women's liberation and women's equality movements remains urgent.

I will spare myself and all of you a point-by-point rebuttal of that diatribe.  How does that nice Spanish saying go?  "De mente cerrada no salen moscas?"  I'm sure that's not correct,
but you may get the idea.


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## tvdxer

maxiogee said:
			
		

> tvdxer,
> I think you need to be less inflammatory in the things you write.
> I realise that, a bit like the child throwing its rattle out of the pram, you do it for attention, but you demean yourself by what you write.
> 
> What are we to make of your inclusion of the word "mental" in the following…
> 
> Whilst I would agree that not all people are equally gifted in many areas of their make-up, I would be loathe to divide them on purely gender lines. You, however, appear to think otherwise.
> 
> You remind me of my father's advice to me when I was a lot younger.
> "Anthony", he said (my parents refused to recognise my choice of Tony as a name) "some people are wise, but most are otherwise."



Hahaha!

You've just won the "calling the kettle black" award with this post.   

However, I will not let your needless comments annoy or bother me.  And I don't divide individuals themselves on gender lines; certainly, there are women far more physically strong than the average male, and then there are men who might do a better job housekeeping then some women!  However, we would be ignorant, or more likely, self-deceiving to deny that there is a certain set of roles fulfilled better and ordained more by/towards women, and the same for men.


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## cuchuflete

I'm wearing my forero hat, but I wouldn't be surprised if a nice Moderator were to come along soon, and ask all of us to return to and stay on the thread topic, which was NOT abortion, and which was NOT lesbian marital rights.

Perhaps we could all benefit from re-reading post #1 and addressing our comment to that post.   Other passions may certainly be carried to other, new and different, threads.


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## emma42

I agree, Cuchuflete.  Thank you for trying to answer my questions, Fernando.  Perhaps when you have things clearer in your mind, you could open a fresh thread about the subjects.


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## cuchuflete

Ladies and Gentlemen and Other thread participants--
I'm going to split off the abortion and lesbian marriage parts of this thread, and open a new thread with them.

Please stay peacefully in your corners for a few minutes.

Thanks,
Mod-hatted Cuchu


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## french4beth

> And, now that we have begun, just for the record....Pat Buchanan is not an American conservative. He is an American Neanderthal.


Thanks, cuchu!

And yes, please let us get back to the thread!! Women's rights! We can all open new threads on gender issues, etc. (not that the other viewpoints and topics are not important, they most certainly are!).

In the US - there is still a glass ceiling for women (and people of color) in the business world & in the political arena, although progress has been made.

Hopefully, there will come a day when all people will all be treated equally & fairly, so the terms "women's rights" or "minority rights" will fade away...


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## maxiogee

Fernando said:
			
		

> Maxiogee, if you disagree with some of tvdxer's post (I do, for the record), please, tell us which your point is. Your post is attacking tvdxer, not tvdxer's post.
> 
> I think you are implying he is saying that men are mentally better than women. I do not think that he is saying so. If I am wrong in my interpretation on tvdxer's post or yours, let me know.



*** My point is that tvdxer states "or making sure that men and women are not only treated as equal in human dignity, but also in every mental and physical aspect, *as if there is no difference* between the sexes." In saying "as if there is no difference" he is explicitly saying that there is a difference - and I'm highlighting his mention of "mental" in that regard. He is categorically saying that there is a difference in mental abilities between the genders.

*** His very readiness to divide people along gender lines stands out like a beacon. He only mentions women in regard to abortion - no mention of the man involved.

*** He does the old sly misdirection trick when he mentions…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> in many neighborhoods women do not feel safe walking the streets, sometimes even during the day, etc., but it seems as though organizations like "NOW" are more concerned with things like …


… but what he should be saying is that in many neighbourhoods *people* do not feel safe —> this in not a gender thing, the feeling of being at risk applies to all of the residents of these "many neighbourhoods". Why should a women's organisation have to campaign for *anyone* to be able to feel safe on the streets of their own country - that is not a job for a sectional interest group!

*** He says…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> To speak otherwise is generally frowned upon.


… this is known as begging the question!

*** He responds to a question about how feminism is going by launching a diatribe against a section of the women in his society, dragging in all sorts of extraneous comments and wraps up by saying…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> While I am not a fan of shopping centers or suburban sprawl…


… Well I think we can also take it that he is more a fan of shopping centres and suburban sprawl than he is of women who seek equality with him.

*** Then, in reply to me, he says…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> certainly, there are women far more physically strong than the average male, and then there are men who might do a better job housekeeping then some women!



Can't you just hear the unspoken subtext screaming out at you? I certainly can!

*** Then he reveals his total philosophy in all of this…


			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> However, we would be ignorant, or more likely, self-deceiving to deny that there is a certain set of roles fulfilled better and ordained more by/towards women, and the same for men.



I'll just highlight that for the obtuse —> *tvdxer* feels that there is a certain set of roles fulfilled better by women.

I have nothing more to say about him.


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## emma42

I would like to know how women are liberated by "the automobile...the dishwasher..."etc if they cannot go out to work to buy these things because they are fulfilling "the most honourable role...of mother and housekeeper"?

I would also like to know exactly what are the "certain set of roles" for women?


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## maxiogee

emma42 said:
			
		

> I would also like to know exactly what are the "certain set of roles" for women?



You disappoint me, emma. Can you not guess? I'm sure you could rattle off thatv list almost as fast as tvdxer.


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## emma42

But, Maxi, I am agog to know more of forer@s'  views on this matter.  It would appear that I have been labouring under the delusion that I live in a flat, rather than a cave.  I ask only for enlightenment.


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## Bettie

Well, I'm sure you know Isabel Allende, the writer, she once wrote in one of her books that feminism in Chile wasn't really good for women because it didn't give freedom for women, yeah they went out to work, but they still had to be in charge of the house and children, and I think that applies to Mexico too, it's changing, but I worked in a place where we had to work more that 10 hours everyday and every mother had to come back home and clean and cook and take care of the kids, even though, in a lot of cases they were making more money than the husbands.

And in some workplaces they still ask you for a pregnancy test!!! And of course in the newspaper they ask for married men and single women!!!


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## emma42

Yes, Betty, still here in England, more traditional-minded younger women see it as their role to do all the homemaking and childcare, despite working outside the home as much as their mates.  It is much much less common than it was.  I see it a lot in traditional working class communities, but I am by no means saying that all working class families are like this.


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## djchak

Well, gee, I guess feminism is going just fine in the US.

It's pretty much become a standard philosophy with quite a few variations.

The "legality" of it has been standard for a while.

Gender issues are quite another thing.

Basically... the laws have changed (and are still changing...look at the "fathers rights" movement spawned in resonse to feminism) but gender issues in the US are still a bit murky.

That's as diplomatic as I can say it.


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## cuchuflete

Hi djchak,
I might already agree with your thoughts on "Gender issues", or I might be a nightmare of an opponent, or even just bored, disinterested and non-committal.  The problem is, I don't really know what you mean by the phrase.

Can you cite a few examples of 'gender issues' so I'll know if I'm your ally or the loyal opposition?

Thanks,
Cuchu

PD- If the gender issues topic is not about the progress of feminism, let's just move this part of the conversation to a new thread.


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## cuchuflete

Here, by way of a reminder, is this list of questions from the first post.  
They are quite extensive.  If you have comments that go beyond the broad reach of this list of questions, please place them elsewhere.



> How have women's roles in society evolved in your country over the last 50-100 years?
> 
> Are women still at a disadvantge vis à vis men?
> 
> Have some things changed a lot, while others have stayed the same?
> 
> Do women benefit from equal education and job oppurtunities?
> 
> Do most women work outside the home?
> 
> Are they still responsable for all the housework and childcare?
> 
> What associations/people/politicians are working to improve the lot (lot = situation) of women in your country?


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## badgrammar

Okay, let's try to head off the major segué and get back to the original questions - should anyone actually wish to address them .

Part of the reason I asked these questions is that I have noticed through my travels, that's the most important issues of the moment in women's rights vary from country to country.  For example, in the U.S., women still earn about 70 cents to every 1.00$ earned by a man doing the same work.  This is unjust, and I think it is a big issue in the U.S.

In India, the practice of infanticide of newborn girls is still a tremendous problem.  There, especially in isolated rural areas, having a girl is considered more a curse than a blessing, and it is estimated that there are 10-20 thousand cases of female infanticide each year.  It has gotten so bad that in some areas, the male-female ratio is about 5 to 1, and as a result, today many men will never find a wife.  The preference for male children has both bitten men in the butt, and caused the agonizing deaths of hundreds of thousands of baby girls.

In India, that's a really pressing problem.  As is the right to equal education and employment oppurtunities for girls, and in a larger context, civil and human rights in general.  

...hard to imagine in the West how useful something like a communal bio-gas set-up could liberate women from the task of collecting firewood for cooking and heating.  As task which sends them walking for hours a day searching for wood, which they must then carry home.   So for them, modernization is also an important part in their liberation.  One battle at a time.

In India there is a big feminist movement, Indira Gandhi is the best known of feminist leaders, but there are many many others.  

On the other hand, Turkey is also an interesting case.  Ataturk was very much in sync, if not ahead of his time, with his reforms: "The new Civil Code, adopted in 1926, abolished polygamy and recognized the equal rights of women in divorce, custody, and inheritance. The entire educational system from the grade school to the university became coeducational."  He also banned wearing of the headscarf in schools and government institutions.  

Today, women are very present in the government and in the higher education system and in the paid work force.  However, they are generally still expected to give up their career when they marry to stay home and take care of the children.  Although in larger cities such as Istanbul or Ankara, I am sure many day care centers exist, it is almost impossible in smaller towns to put your child in daycare while you work full time - So day care is a serious issue.  And while they certainly have every legal right to pursue their careers, it is both practicably and socially (or within ones family) difficult to do so.  So changing some traditional patriarchal ideas and creating certain institutions might be a pressing issue for Turkish women. 

So, not being from either of these countries, I may have my facts all wrong, or I may be missing the real issues entirely.  I don't know.  So that is why I started this thread... to find out how women see their situation in many different countries around the world.  And since feminism changes society, it also affects the role of men in society, perhaps making it more challengin in some areas, and more rewarding in others.  Men's opinions are welcome.

Anyway, sorry to be so wordy, but I was not trying to instigate a debate on abortion, or the way men and women _should_ behave, but rather find out how things are in your part of the world.  Perhaps I should have specified in the title "Outside of Europe and the U.S" in order to avoid becoming embattled in the state feminism in the "Western" world.

Thanks for all your replies.  And thanks Bettie for your interesting observations on Chile and Mexico.


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## coconutpalm

I want to edit something I said in the previous page. Although the domestic situation for women has improved greatly, and in some areas in the southern part of China women are more "dominant" than men, the working opportunites allocated to men and women are quite unequal. And most unfortunatly, many people, including men and women (especially in the north) still doesn't care much about this issue.


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## badgrammar

Hi Coconut, 

Thanks for your replies. And what about education?  Do girls and boys both attend school at the same rate?  And do parents favor male over female children?


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## coconutpalm

As far as I know, I think most parents no longer favor male over female children. Perhaps in some poorer regions they do, for example, in the northwest.

If you are patient enough, I'd like to tell my personal story to prove my words. I was born in a little town 19 years ago, as the second girl along with my twin sister. My parents were raised in the countryside. My grandpa and grandma are very very conservative, so they wanted to "give" us to another family that wanted a girl (see, many families 19 years ago were already not prejudiced against girls). My mom protested. My dad, um, he was under great pressure because he is the only son of his family, so he didi't stand firmly with my mom. Finally, my mom succeeded.
As time goes by, the three daughters of us turn out to be more talented than most of the boys in our neighbourhood, so my grandpa and grandma's attitudes have greatly changed.


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## badgrammar

Thank you for sharing that Coconut, that is very interesting and I am glad you decided to post it.  Your English is excellent.  Is there a "feminist movement in China that you're aware of?


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## coconutpalm

Um, I don't think there is any "feminist movement" in China.
You see, although we cry for gender equality, we generally think the feminists are too radical, sometimes requiring things impossible. 
As you can see from my experience, as long as women make an effort, and do as well as or better than men, we can change the situation.


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## maxiogee

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> You see, although we cry for gender equality, we generally think the feminists are too radical, sometimes requiring things impossible.



coconutpalm, it is often found that to achieve the possible one must strive for the impossible.


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## coconutpalm

Yes, you're right, maxiogee. But men are born physically stronger than women, and the brain structure for most men and women are different. How amazing!
Actually, I don't think gender is that important. What's most important is individual. If this man is physically weaker than his wife, let him do less heavy housework. If this woman is better at maths than her collegues, let her do it!


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## ceci '79

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> the brain structure for most men and women are different. How amazing!


 
This sounds new to me...


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## badgrammar

ceci '79 said:
			
		

> This sounds new to me...



Actually it is true that men and women's brain structures differ as early as the time a foetus begins to differentiate into a boy or girl in the womb, as a result of hormones.  These differences are real, measurable and the subject of research - research whose point is not to show superiority of one sex over the other, but the differences between the sexes. Different does not equal inferior.

If you google it, you'll finds loads of interesting info.


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## medeterian

In Türkiye, luckily, these type of feminists are not getting so much attention. The women rights tend to be improve in my country day by day. Much more number of women are participated in the bussiness life day by day. Morever, the number of men who helps houseworks and babysitting is increasing. However, women still receive intensity in rural areas. There are many problems related with women being under pressure. Anyways, when compared with 100 years past, there is a great improvement of women participating social life. Even Türkiye is one of the earliest at women represented in the politic life among all Europe (1934) though they are not represented sufficiently.



			
				tvdxer said:
			
		

> For the most part, women in the U.S. are treated as equals to men.  To speak otherwise is generally frowned upon.   However, feminism  today is little more than a perversion of what it once was, especially the third-wave "ethical slut" (a name of the book written in that genre) variety.  In the beginning of the 20th century, things like women's suffrage were at the forefront of the women's right movement; today, what descended from that group is primarily concerned with things like abortion, the "women's right to choose" (murdering her unborn child), or making sure that men and women are not only treated as equal in human dignity, but also in every mental and physical aspect, as if there is no difference between the sexes.



I am sharing your ideas tvdxer about todays feminism. They are dealing with the issues that are not directly related to the women rights eventhough the status of women in the soceity needs significand imporvements. You are saying "mental and physical" that is the key point and someone misunderstand the issue somehow. The man has the ability of discreat thinking and lack of pragmatic thinking when compared with women. Contrarily women lack of discreat thinking compared with men. None of the mechanisms; discreate and pragmatic thinking, are not better then the other. One of them is suitable or a composition of both in different situations. Thats why  I find homosexual life sharing (not even marriage) and male female equality!(in the terms of pure equality, not the gender discrimintaion) unnatural for human beings. 

These are strongly related with the subject and are not off-topic. Anyways it will be more explanatory to discuss the male and female thinking in a different thread.

sevgiler..


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## medeterian

Hi badgrammar,

I want to explain something a bit more. In the neighborhoods that I grown up, the girls complete their educations to the degree they are able to do. There had been no discrimitions between boys and girls I have known. In the rural areas it is not so. People do not allow girls to attand to school in some areas. But this is not about the gender discrimination, it is much more about poverty. Boys also have to work in the agricultural areas in many regions. In the rural areas, I can say that women are under pressure. When they are subject to intensity in family, they rarely have the option of divorcing. The convensions are really strong at this point. When I try to see the big picture, the source of the pressure is not the men. It is originated from the women itself. Every mom encourage her son to establish a strict control mechanism on his wife. Actually the controller is the mother herself. In Türkish culture, mother is one of the holies and as a result of a mother originated bringing up of the child, a man can not live opposite to his mothers wills. The result is a vicious circle of women being subject to intesity.

In the university, department of computer science engineering, I understood the subjects are more suitable for man. Especially the ones related with discreat thinking, mathematics, modeling the things that dont exists (which the department consists of). For instance, there may be excellent female mathematicians, but it does not change the fact that man are much more good at it. I can easily say that a female is more successful at using the sources in the best economic way. Putting the right thing in the right place is a female task more than male. I gave these examples because I dont think it is the issue balancing all the indicators for male and female so that female rights would be protected.

Sevgiler...


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## Mariaguadalupe

badgrammar said:
			
		

> How have women's roles in society evolved in your country over the last 50-100 years? Our mexican society has evolved greatly in the last 100 years. As early as 60 years ago, women were going away to college to get a degree. (Some went much earlier) Although this was not the norm, it wasn't totally the exception. My mother recently had her 56th class reunion. She obtained a PHD in chemistry/biology back in 1950 a few years before my father obtained his legal degree. However, as one of the few women with a degree during the 1950's, she gave up her career to take care of all 6 of us! She always claimed she didn't need the rush or success in her chosen field to feel _satisfied or fulfilled_ as a woman. My father on the other side, alway wanted for her to set up her own lab. She always refused and concentrated on rearing her children.
> Are women still at a disadvantge vis à vis men? Yes. Even though most women now earn college degrees and enter the nation's workforce, we still get have to undergo pregnancy tests before being able to obtain employment. (This is not legal, but companies work around this). We also face quick termination of our contract if we get married or have the great idea of bearing a child. There are even some companies who will only hire young, single women as secretaries and other clerical positions. Those women who have a college degree may get hired with a marriage under her belt but must be careful with the upcoming children.
> Have some things changed a lot, while others have stayed the same? Once we get ousted from the companies' workforce because our choice to bear children (basically this is the decisive issue) we have to create our own source of income. Many of us have become self-employed professionals in any of our chosen fields. Some of us have done so quite succesfully even if it isn't easy.
> Do women benefit from equal education and job opportunities? Stateside, education is offered the same whether you are male or female. (Federal schools are opened to everyone with very low fees.  They go from kindergarten all the way up to university. They are available throughout the country even in the most remote regions of the country.  Technical schools are available in low income comunities and each State's Public/federal University may have several campus throughout the state. The hard part would be the families' lack of funds.) Now, culturally, it all depends on the family you're straddled with. I was fortunate and was able to relocate to a larger city to study. I was born into a family where _*all*_ voices were heard. It didn't matter if you were the youngest of the family.
> Do most women work outside the home? I don't know the statistics, but I believe the percentage of women working outside the home is quite high. In fact, some sociologists have even suggested that the infamous Juarez women assasinations are linked to the fact that the workforce shifted from hiring men in formal employment to women taking the bigger share of available jobs. Thus for a country where the man was educated to be the main breadwinner in a family, this is a demeaning and often fatal blow to their egos. This is foreign to them and consequently they do not know how to deal with this new way of life.
> Are they still responsable for all the housework and childcare? Yes. Although there has been a trend where men have become more involved in childrearing, it all depends where you are at in the country. I would have to say at a guess, that the northern part of the country is more progressive in that aspect.
> What associations/people/politicians are working to improve the lot (lot = situation) of women in your country? Its a good question. It appears that the current President has more women in higher government positions. Women have always been present in government in México. Maybe they did not have the limelight, but they were there, behind the scenes, especially in the last 50-60 years. There are several women organizations that are trying to back-up women who were forced to leave their employments when they had their children. They offer legal, strategy and other types of advise to them.
> 
> There is a book that is being touted recently in the States, (and the author recently appeared in Good Morning America although, I can't for the life of me, remember neither the name of the book nor the author) but the author claims that women have selfishly wasted their education when they left the workforce to go back home to raise their children. The author is very critical about their decision.
> 
> I hope this helps a bit.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MG


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## badgrammar

Wow! Medeterian and Mariaguadalupe, now those are some good replies to my questions! 
Yes Med, I had heard about the mother phenomenon and Turkish men.  And as you point out, this is a way in which women actually oppress other women, as the mother-in-law is th one who controls the pressure in the pressure-cooker in Turkey.  So one issue for women's rights in Turkey is actually getting women (mothers) to stop trying to control their sons and their daughter in laws.  I understand that the mother-in-law thing is also a HUGE problem for Indian women. 

Maria, that is a very good resume both of your persoanl experience and the  status of women in Mexico.   I had no idea that the pregnancy issue was such a big deal there, but I did know that there are many, many educated and preofessional working women in Mexico, in addition to many who choose to stay home with their kids.  I have met some really smart Mexican women in my time (am currrently working with one right now), and they certainly seemed as feminist as their USA/European counterparts....


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## coconutpalm

In the past,many mothers ordered their son to oppress his wife (or more correctly stating the wife's status, HER daughter-in-law).
But it's not the same case in China now. Old parents need their son and his wife to support them, and they are more open-minded.


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