# Urdu, Hindi: fire brigade



## marrish

Question: fire brigade/unit/service in Hindi and Urdu

For Hindi I have consulted a friend who suggested a word which seems quite obsolete: _damkal_ or something like this. I'm not sure whether it is really Hindi.

I've always come across the English name in Urdu.


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## Alfaaz

Fire Department/Brigade:
آگ دَستَہ ۔ فائر بَرگيڈ ۔ آگ بُجھانے والا مَحکمَہ ۔ آتِش فَرو عَملَہ ۔

aag dastah, faair bargeD, aag bhujaane wala mahkmah, aatish faro 'amlah

aag dastah makes sense, yet doesn't (kind of).....it provides for interesting imagery! Would it be coming to actually extinguish the fire or increase it...? (but the same could be said for the English "Fire Brigade")


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## nineth

marrish said:


> Question: fire brigade/unit/service in Hindi and Urdu
> 
> For Hindi I have consulted a friend who suggested a word which seems quite obsolete: _damkal_ or something like this. I'm not sure whether it is really Hindi.



Your friend is right. _damkal_ is a good one;  I like it!


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## Alfaaz

Damkal is derived from Farsi, and is also included in Urdu, but it would be _*fire engine*_, not department. 
دمکل Damkal
1. آتش فرو آلہ، آگ بجھانے کا انجن۔
Aatish faro aalah, aag bhujaane ka injan


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Damkal is derived from Farsi, and is also included in Urdu, but it would be _*fire engine*_, not department.
> دمکل Damkal
> 1. آتش فرو آلہ، آگ بجھانے کا انجن۔
> Aatish faro aalah, aag bhujaane ka injan



I believe, this dictionary has got it wrong.

H دمکل दमकल _damkal = H دمکلا दमकला *damkalā* [S. धम+कल+कः], s.m. A squirt; a pump; a fire-engine;—a jack or crane (for raising weights)._


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> I believe, this dictionary has got it wrong.
> 
> H دمکل दमकल _damkal = H دمکلا दमकला *damkalā* [S. धम+कल+कः], s.m. A squirt; a pump; a fire-engine;—a jack or crane (for raising weights)._



_Damkal _is a good one for a fire engine. For fire brigade, अग्नि-शामक दल (_agni shaamak dal_).


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## Alfaaz

> I believe, this dictionary has got it wrong.


Thanks for the correction! 


> For fire brigade, अग्नि-शामक दल (_agni shaamak dal_).


Could you perhaps dissect that please? 
agni-aag, 
shaamak-extinguisher, bhujaane-wala, sedative, dance choreographer........? 
dal-? is it with a soft d or a hard D.........?


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## greatbear

Alfaaz said:


> Thanks for the correction!
> 
> Could you perhaps dissect that please?
> agni-aag,
> shaamak-extinguisher, bhujaane-wala, sedative, dance choreographer........?
> dal-? is it with a soft d or a hard D.........?



"Dal" is with a soft D and is a common word for unit.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> "Dal" is with a soft D and is a common word for unit.




Perhaps more than a "unit"? TiDDii-dal (a swarm of locusts).


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> Perhaps more than a "unit"? TiDDii-dal (a swarm of locusts).



In English, you would translate it as a "swarm" here; that doesn't make it different from a unit. If translations into English is the question, then there would be many ways that "dal" would be translated: party (like the political party Janata Dal - People's Party), unit, brigade, swarm, group, class, bunch, herd, etc. English has a different collective noun for each animal (you could read Sir Arthut Conan Doyle's novel _Sir Nigel_ for some of them) - for example, a "vaanar dal" isn't a swarm of monkeys!


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> In English, you would translate it as a "swarm" here; that doesn't make it different from a unit. If translations into English is the question, then there would be many ways that "dal" would be translated: party (like the political party Janata Dal - People's Party), unit, brigade, swarm, group, class, bunch, herd, etc. English has a different collective noun for each animal (you could read Sir Arthut Conan Doyle's novel _Sir Nigel_ for some of them) - for example, a "vaanar dal" isn't a swarm of monkeys!



Actually the point I was trying to make was that "dal" is extremely diverse in the range of its meanings.That was all.

S دل दल _dala_, vulg. _*dal*_, s.m. A small shoot, leaf (of a tree); wild rice;—a lump, mass, heap, quantity; thickness, bulk, volume; a company, party or body (of men, united together for a common object,—hence, sometimes used in Hindī as a sign of the plural, e.g. _kashī-dal_, 'farmers'); a large army, a host;—destruction:—_dalāḍhak_ (_˚la_+_āḍh˚_), s.m. Name of several plants; the aquatic plant _Pistia stratioites_; a species of jasmine, _Jasminum pubescens_; wild sesamum; the plant _Messua ferrea_ (com. called _nagesar_); the tree _Acacia sirissa_:—_dalāmal_ (_˚la_+_am˚_), s.m. The plants _Vangueria spinosa_ and _Artemisia_, &c.:—_dal-bādal_, s.m. A mass of clouds; a large army; a large tent or pavilion:—_dal-pushpī_, s.f. The fragrant plant _Pandanus odoratissimus_ (the leaves of which surround the flower; syn. _ketkī_):—_dal-dār_, adj. Thick, substantial, solid; full, fleshy, pulpy:—_dal-sūsā_ (S. _dala_+_snasā_), s.f. The fibre or vein of a leaf:—_dal-kapāṭ_, s.m. A folded leaf or petal:—_dal-kosh_, s.m. _lit_. 'Having young shoots incased in sheaths'; a sort of jasmine, _Jasminum pubescens_:—_dal-ganjanā_, s.m. A kind rice:—_dal-milā-huʼā_, adj. (_Bot_.) Monophyllons:—_dal-nāś_, s.m. The destruction of an army, or of a body of people:—_dal-nirmok_, s.m. _lit_. 'Leaf-shedding'; a kind of birch (the bark of which is used for wrapping woollens in, and for _ḥuqqa_-snakes, &c.; syn. _bhoj-patr_):—_dal-wāl_, s.m. Commander of an army:—_dale-gandhi_, s.m. 'Fragrance in the leaf'; the plant _Echites scholaris_.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> Actually the point I was trying to make was that "dal" is extremely diverse in the range of its meanings.That was all.
> 
> S دل दल _dala_, vulg. _*dal*_, s.m. A small shoot, leaf (of a tree); wild rice;—a lump, mass, heap, quantity; thickness, bulk, volume; a company, party or body (of men, united together for a common object,—hence, sometimes used in Hindī as a sign of the plural, e.g. _kashī-dal_, 'farmers'); a large army, a host;—destruction:—_dalāḍhak_ (_˚la_+_āḍh˚_), s.m. Name of several plants; the aquatic plant _Pistia stratioites_; a species of jasmine, _Jasminum pubescens_; wild sesamum; the plant _Messua ferrea_ (com. called _nagesar_); the tree _Acacia sirissa_:—_dalāmal_ (_˚la_+_am˚_), s.m. The plants _Vangueria spinosa_ and _Artemisia_, &c.:—_dal-bādal_, s.m. A mass of clouds; a large army; a large tent or pavilion:—_dal-pushpī_, s.f. The fragrant plant _Pandanus odoratissimus_ (the leaves of which surround the flower; syn. _ketkī_):—_dal-dār_, adj. Thick, substantial, solid; full, fleshy, pulpy:—_dal-sūsā_ (S. _dala_+_snasā_), s.f. The fibre or vein of a leaf:—_dal-kapāṭ_, s.m. A folded leaf or petal:—_dal-kosh_, s.m. _lit_. 'Having young shoots incased in sheaths'; a sort of jasmine, _Jasminum pubescens_:—_dal-ganjanā_, s.m. A kind rice:—_dal-milā-huʼā_, adj. (_Bot_.) Monophyllons:—_dal-nāś_, s.m. The destruction of an army, or of a body of people:—_dal-nirmok_, s.m. _lit_. 'Leaf-shedding'; a kind of birch (the bark of which is used for wrapping woollens in, and for _ḥuqqa_-snakes, &c.; syn. _bhoj-patr_):—_dal-wāl_, s.m. Commander of an army:—_dale-gandhi_, s.m. 'Fragrance in the leaf'; the plant _Echites scholaris_.



Well, if you want to include all non-unit-related meanings of the word "dal", then Platts has missed two very common meanings of "dal" (if the above is from Platts):
(1) sharp edge, point (e.g., of a stone, screw, etc.)
(2) a sore becoming an abscess/an abscess itself [extends from the meaning "shoot, leaf"!]


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> _Damkal _is a good one for a fire engine. For fire brigade, अग्नि-शामक दल (_agni shaamak dal_).


Thanks, it fits to my query. 
This seems to be official meaning, how is a fire brigade or a fire service called colloquially?


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## Faylasoof

_aatash (aatish) foro maHkamah = Fire Department_

_aatash (aatish) foro 3amlah / dastah / palTan = Fire Brigade_

_aatash (aatish) foro injan / anjan = Fire Engine_

_aatash (aatish) foro pamp = Fire Pump_

Incidentally, Urdu distinguishes between _dal_ and _dastah_. Here we would use the latter, i.e. _dastah _(unit detachment), or _3amlah_ (crew) or _palTan_ (platoon!). We reserve _dal_ for a large gathering, mass of units etc. as in _fauj ka dal_ (= a mass of troops) or a swarm, as QP SaaHib mentioned above: _Tiddii kaa dal_.


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> Incidentally, Urdu distinguishes between _dal_ and _dastah_. Here we would use the latter, i.e. _dastah _(unit detachment), or _3amlah_ (crew) or _palTan_ (platoon!). We reserve _dal_ for a large gathering, mass of units etc. as in _fauj ka dal_ (= a mass of troops) or a swarm, as QP SaaHib mentioned above: _Tiddii kaa dal_.



In Hindi, too, we have the word "tukdii" for a subunit, platoon, etc. (_dastah _is also used, though more rarely.) "Paltan" is used in other senses in Hindi, for example, "bachhoN ki paltan": a bunch of children.


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Thanks, it fits to my query.
> This seems to be official meaning, how is a fire brigade or a fire service called colloquially?



It is also the colloquial usage if someone would say fire brigade. However, just as in English we say firemen rather, similarly in Hindi, and thus: _aag bujhaanewaale_.


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> In Hindi, too, we have the word "tukdii" for a subunit, platoon, etc. (_dastah _is also used, though more rarely.) "Paltan" is used in other senses in Hindi, for example, "bachhoN ki paltan": a bunch of children.


 _bachchoN kii palTan_ is also Urdu! But the point I was making was that we distinguish between _dal_ on the one hand and _dastah_, _palTan_ and _3amlah_ on the other. We tend to use _palTan_ more widely than _dastah_ and _3amlah_.

 tukRii is also used in Urdu  with the following two menaings:

H ٿکڙي टुकड़ी TukRii [Prk. ठोक्कडिआ; S. स्तोक+र+इका], s.f. A small piece, &c.; a small pane of glass; a piece of cloth.
H ٿکڙي टुकड़ी TukRii[S. स्तवक+र+इका;...] s.f. A party, band, troop; a division or corps (of an army); a flock (of birds).

Although now the second usage is a lot less common, I fee.


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## HZKhan

My suggestion is to use the word اطفائیہ/itfaaiyya for the fire department. The word is from the Arabic root ط ف ء and its infinitive of form IV اطفاء has the primary meanings of: putting out, quenching, extinguishing etc.
And accordingly, a firefighter would be called اطفائی/itfaaii. And for the fire bridage, we can use something like اطفائی دستہ.

The root is also used in the Qur'an:
يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِئُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ
"They want to blow out the light of God by what they say [lit. with their mouths]....." (09:32)

The word اطفائیه is used in Afghanistan, Turkey and the Arab world. Formely, it was also used in Iran, but now they mostly use سازمان آتش نشانی (i.e. aag bithaane waala idaara) instead.


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## Alfaaz

Interesting suggestion Pakistani Khan SaaHib!

 It is concise and follows the pattern of many ادارہ جات، شعبہ جات، محکمات names already used in Urdu such as بحریہ (_navy_), فضائیہ (_air force_), عدلیہ (_judiciary_), etc. 

There are also منطفی | muntafii and اطفاء | itfaa2 from the same root!

(Since اطفاء and منطفی are included in dictionaries, the other words could be employed as/added in _expanded Urdu technical vocabulary_, if they aren't already present.)


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## marrish

Great! But then they will say that Urdu in Pakistan is Persianized which is contrary to the reality. If they say in this case "Arabicised", ok, but isn't it right?

Anyway I agree with your suggestions, it takes a couple of newspapers and other media to catch up to this word. Much better than aag-zanii,


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## HZKhan

marrish said:


> Great! But then they will say that Urdu in Pakistan is Persianized which is contrary to the reality. If they say in this case "Arabicised", ok, but isn't it right?



Thank you. 
We have every right in the world to get inspiration from our classical prestigious langauges for our neologisms. English has been doing it for the last few centuries. So what is so odd if Urdu does the same thing?


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## Sheikh_14

For platoon, I am not sure if it's an Urdabi term or what but the term I more familiar with than palTan is paltoon, which I would assume is written as پلتون.


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## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> For platoon, I am not sure if it's an Urdabi term or what but the term I more familiar with than palTan is paltoon, which I would assume is written as پلتون.


No, the English word platoon is written as پلٹن in Urdu.


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## Qureshpor

Just continuing from where we got to, what would be the equivalent of a fireman/fire fighter be in Urdu?


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## Alfaaz

Qureshpor said:
			
		

> Just continuing from where we got to, what would be the equivalent of a fireman/fire fighter be in Urdu?


بجھاونہار - _bujhaavan-haar_ can be used.

If the pattern detailed in post #14 is followed, would something like آتش فرو کار(ندہ) be appropriate?


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## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> No, the English word platoon is written as پلٹن in Urdu.


The one I was thinking of is palToon and it's used far more in Punjab then palTan is. Its spelt as follows: پلٹون. Online searches do corroborate this. Growing up palToon is all I ever heard, I only came across palTan in dictionaries.


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> Just continuing from where we got to, what would be the equivalent of a fireman/fire fighter be in Urdu?


آتش کشا / آتش کشا جوان


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## marrish

۰۰۰ or just aatish~jawaan


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> ۰۰۰ or just aatish~jawaan


بیاں خواب کی طرح جو کر رہا ہے
یہ قصہ ہے جب  کا کہ آتش جواں تھا

I often think why we can't simply put words together like English.

Fireman  آگمرد 
Firewoman آگعورت
Firefighter آگلڑاکا
Firefighting  آگلڑائی

Also if ڈاک > ڈاکیا
Then آگ > آگیا

How about gender-free آتشکش aatash-kush?


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## Alfaaz

Qureshpor said:
			
		

> I often think why we can't simply put words together like English.
> 
> Fireman آگمرد
> Firewoman آگعورت
> Firefighter آگلڑاکا
> Firefighting آگلڑائی
> 
> Also if ڈاک > ڈاکیا
> Then آگ > آگیا


 If such compounds are desired, then the following Sanskrit-derived combinations might be better in terms of conveying that the person is actually _fighting _fire, which "آگمرد" or "آگعورت" don't convey at first glance...!?

اگنی لڑنت 
اگنی لڑنتیا
A possible reservation or objection might be that the aforementioned don't sound natural in Urdu, despite the fact that the words (individually) are listed in dictionaries and used in literature.

Potential compounds formed from Arabic and Persian-derived words could be:

نار/آتش محاربت
محارب نار/حریق/آتش or نار محارب
Both sets of terms (Sanskrit-based and Arabic/Persian-based) employ two words or more, while the suggestions in post #18 convey the same meanings with brevity. (In addition to the words mentioned in post #19, Urdu Lughat now also includes انطفاء و مطفی from the same root.)


			
				Qureshpor said:
			
		

> How about gender-free آتشکش aatash-kush?


 آتش کش is listed in an online Urdu-English Dictionary. _Firefighting _could be آتش کشی. 

آتش فروئی is another option based on the suggestions in post #14.  


			
				Alfaaz said:
			
		

> بجھاونہار - _bujhaavan-haar_ can be used.


 Do forum members have any comments on _bujhaavan-haar(aa)_?


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## marrish

There is a potentially helpful entry in the Asafiyyah (this is the actual topic I was checking today):

آگ گاڑنا ۔ہ۔فِعلِ‌مُتَعَدّی (باہر والے بولتے ہَیں) آگ دابنا— (aag gaaRnaa-h.-fi3l-e-muta3addii (baahar waale bolte haiN) aag daabnaa)


Qureshpor said:


> I often think why we can't simply put words together like English.


There are entries for اگنبوٹ *agan*boT and آگ بوٹ _*aag*_boT for 'fire-boat'.


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