# Red Square



## PEGI

*Красная площадь. is it red or beautiful and why?
thank you
*


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## estreets

Initially this meant "beautifil" but later with the lapse of time the original meaning of the word changed. Now, the word Красная mean red.


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## Maroseika

There are many versions why the square was called Red, and it's beauty (Slavic and Russian 'red' initially meant beautiful) is the most popular but not the most possible, because according to some sources it was Red even when it was quite ugly, dirty and unpaved. 
When it was used for the fairs it was temporally paved with wooden reddish boards and this is another explanation of the square name.
Besides, in fact primarilly this name was used for another small square in the end of the modern Red square in front of the department of executions (blood - red) and maybe this name later shifted to the large square.
Before the 17 century it was called Пожар (fire) because fire often destroyed wooden malls there, and this is yet another version (fire - red). 
So actually why exactly this square was called Red is not quite clear.


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## PEGI

actually my frend from russia told me that better translation on english ll be beautiful because it s the real meaning. on my language word Красная- krasna is beautiful and red is crvena. can you explain to me what is a logic relation between Красная and red? 
thank you.


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## Maroseika

PEGI said:


> can you explain to me what is a logic relation between Красная and red?
> thank you.


Красный - red is recordered since XV century and the logic was that red was the colour of holiday (red clothes, etc.). Nice things were painted with red and red began considered as nice itself.
Cf. with the moderm colloquial meaning of фиолетовый (violet): Мне фиолетово - I don't care (maybe because violet is as inexpressive as my mood).


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## PEGI

good logic. but before that,for red, witch word did you use?


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## estreets

The logic relation between Красная and red is direct: красный is translated as red 
And if you mean the long process of transforming красный into red, I would say it may be a long vast explanation which should be in another forum, probably, there: http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=77


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## Maroseika

PEGI said:


> good logic. but before that,for red, witch word did you use?


Чьрьмный, чермный:
черёмуха - bird cherry tree
червь - warm (originally - red paint, than reddish warm).


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## PEGI

maroseika, hvala vam velika.


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## Maroseika

You are welcome.


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## Sobakus

maroseika said:


> Чьрьмный, чермный:
> черёмуха - bird cherry tree
> червь - warm (originally - red paint, than reddish warm).



Разве чьрмьнъ и чьрвенъ(черёмный и червонный) - одно и то же?


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## Maroseika

sobakus said:


> Разве чьрмьнъ и чьрвенъ(черёмный и червонный) - одно и то же?


А разве нет? Черемный - красный, рыжий, Чермное море. 
Про черемуху, правда, есть и другая версия, что она просто вонючая (ср. черемша).


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## Wertis

Of course, "Красная площадь" means "the Red Square" if translated literally.  I've always thought that this name originates from the colour of Moscow Kremlin, which is located nearby and has red walls. Also the Lenin Mausoleum is all red from the outside and so its colour coincides with the colour of Moscow Kremlin. Also "red" can mean "beautiful" because in the old Russian language we sometimes used that adjective to talk about a beautiful and cute woman or young girl. Probably there is some connection between this old-fashioned use of "red" and the name of the main square in Moscow.


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> Чьрьмный, чермный:
> черёмуха - bird cherry tree
> червь - warm (originally - red paint, than reddish warm).



W*o*rm. 

But then it is "*червец*".

If you mean Cochineal (кошениль).


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> W*o*rm.
> 
> But then it is "*червец*".
> 
> If you mean Cochineal (кошениль).


Yes, worm, thanks.
But why червец? Being an insect it has nothing to do with worms. Though etymologically of course it has.


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## galaxy man

Maroseika said:


> Slavic and Russian 'red' initially meant beautiful


Let me use this occasion to find out if my intuition is correct: _красный угол_ (the corner with the icons in private homes) is associated with the meaning _beautiful_, while _красный угол*ок*_ (reading room or club in student dormitories etc.) with the color _red_. Is that so?


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## Maroseika

You are very close to the truth.
In Красный угол the word красный really means beautiful (or better say honorable or Holy).
But красный уголок is a kind of contamination of the old красный угол and red colour associated with the proletarian revolution and communism. Originally (since 20th) it was used for the communist agitation and propaganda at the enterprises, in army, etc., etc. Only much later it became just a "reading room".
I don't know who invented this word combinations but certainly it was developed from the красный угол.


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## rusita preciosa

Wertis said:


> Of course, "Красная площадь" means "the Red Square" if translated literally. I've always thought that this name originates from the colour of Moscow Kremlin, which is located nearby and has red walls.


I think the Moscow Kremlin, like the ones in other Russian cities, was originally white...
http://i3.squidoocdn.com/resize/squ...dule23778792photo_1238273268Kazan_Kremlin.jpg

http://www.travel-images.com/pht/russia502.jpg


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## Maroseika

rusita preciosa said:


> I think the Moscow Kremlin, like the ones in other Russian cities, was originally white...


It was already red when the square was called Red, whatever reason was to call it like that. Including numerous and bloody executions.


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## morzh

maroseika said:


> yes, worm, thanks.
> But why червец? Being an insect it has nothing to do with worms. Though etymologically of course it has.



Почему? Народная этимология, я думаю. Ну есть в нем нечто от очень маленького червячка.

Русское название происходит из народной латыни, "вермикулюс" - "червячок", которое попросту перевели в "червеца".

На самом деле, в мире членистоногих ведь есть достаточно много существ, напоминающих червей. Те же многоножки.

А народу не свойственно особо задумываться. Похож на червячка - назовем червячком


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