# To try



## ThomasK

What is your word for 'to try'? Can you also tell us whether it is a simple word, or a derivation/ compound?

Dutch: *proberen* (something like searching thoroughly, as in 'to probe'), also *trachten* (based on Lat. _tractare_, discuss; the word is less common); older is *pogen* (something like make a fierce move).


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## Dymn

Catalan:

_*provar *_(before a noun), _*provar de *_(before a verb)
Latin _probare_, "to esteem, to approve, to demonstrate"

_*intentar *_(before a verb)
Latin _intentare_, "to point at, to aim, to stretch threateningly"; from _in- _"in-" and _tentare _"to handle, to try, to test"

_*mirar de *_(before a verb)
Literally "to look of, to watch of"


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## ger4

German: _*versuchen**_ (prefix _ver_- + _suchen_ 'to search, to seek'); also _*probieren*_ (as Dutch _proberen_).

* would it be possible to say _verzoeken_ in Dutch as well?


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## apmoy70

Greek:

To try:
(1) *«Προσπαθώ»* [prospaˈθo] < Classical v. *«προσπαθέω/προσπαθῶ» prŏspătʰéō* (uncontracted)/*prŏspatʰô* --> _to become susceptible to, feel passionate love. The modern meaning of trying is mediaeval_ < compound; prefix, preposition and adverb *«πρός» prós* --> _furthermore, thereto, from, by, at, to, towards, in face of_ (PIE *proti- _against_ cf Skt. प्रति (prati), _about, to_, Proto-Slavic *pretivъ, _against_ > OCS против, _against, opposite_) + Classical neut. noun *«πάθος» pắtʰŏs* --> _passion, suffering_ (the word is claimed by two schools of thought: one claims that it's from PIE *kʷentʰ- _to suffer _with possible cognate the Lith. kentėti, _to suffer, endure,_ and the other that it's from PIE *bʰendʰ- _to bind _with cognate the Lith. adj. bendras, _common, mutual_).

(2) *«Αποπειρώμαι»* [apopiˈɾome] < Classical mediopassive voice verb *«ἀποπειράομαι/ἀποπειρῶμαι» ăpŏpeirắŏmai* (uncontracted)/*ăpŏpeirômai* (contracted) --> _to make trial_ or _proof of, venture, make an attempt on_ < compound; Classical prefix and preposition *«ἀπό» ăpó* --> _far away, away from_ (PIE *h₂epo- _from_ cf Skt. अप (apa), _away_, Hitt. āppa- _after_, Lat. ab, Proto-Germanic *ab > Eng. of/off, Dt. af/ave-) + mediopassive denominative v. *«πειράομαι/πειρῶμαι» peirắŏmai* (uncontracted)/*peirômai* (contracted) --> _to try to do, make trial of, make an attempt, put something to the test_ < Classical fem. noun *«πεῖρᾰ» peîră* --> _test, research, experience_ (PIE *per(h₂)- _to go through, cross_ cf Skt. पिपर्ति (píparti), _to bring over/to_, Av. frā- _to cross_, Lat. portāre, Proto-Germanic *faraną > Ger. fahren, Eng. fare, Dt. varen).

(1) Is the most frequently used in the vernacular. (2) is learned.

Try (noun):
A) *«Προσπάθεια»* [prosˈpaθi.a] & dialectal [prosˈpaθ͡ça] (fem.) < *«προσπαθώ»*.

B) *«Απόπειρα»* [aˈpopiɾa] (fem.) < *«αποπειρώμαι»*.


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## 810senior

Japanese:
*試すtames-u*(to try, try on clothes, test, have a go at), which is a simple word.


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## ThomasK

Very interesting!

Catalan: I suppose you have other expressions for expressing "I intend to/ am going to travel to Z". Mirar is surprising to me but I quite understand.

Greek: the "love verb" for to try is amazing at first sight. Yet, there is  of course a similar meaning in English: causing distress and pain (not just in love). I suppose the second verb is the one we find in "empirical"?

German: we cannot use "verzoeken"; "verzoeken" means "to request" in Dutch, also in temptation ("En leid ons niet in bekoring [formerly: verzoeking]")...


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## Gavril

Translations from a few languages whose native speakers rarely post here:

Armenian փորձել (_phordzel_) "try"
Welsh _ceisio _"try" (sometimes _trio_, based on English _try_, is also used)

Both verbs have corresponding nouns meaning "(an) attempt, (a) try": Arm. փորձ (_phordz_), Welsh _cais_. It is possible that the verbs are derived from the nouns, but beyond that I have not been able to find any etymological information on these words.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Greek: the "love verb" for to try is amazing at first sight. Yet, there is  of course a similar meaning in English: causing distress and pain (not just in love). I suppose the second verb is the one we find in "empirical"?


Indeed. Empirical (it must be a late loan as it has the mediaeval and modern pronunciation of the Greek word) derives from the fem. ἐμπειρίᾱ-ĕmpeiríā > adj. ἐμπειρικός-ĕmpeirikós


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## Armas

Finnish:
_
yrittää_ with obscure etymology, possibly related to dialectal _yrki_ "moment". _Yrittää_ is "to try" in the meaning "to attempt, to endeavour".
_koettaa_ "to check/test/try (by touching), try on (clothes), try (attempt)" < _kokea_ "to check (fish nets, traps)" and "to experience, to undergo".


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## Uriel-

Try
Attempt (often implying failure)
Essay (as a verb, now very rare)
Test (as in to try a doorknob, to try on clothes, or to try one's patience)


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## Karton Realista

ThomasK said:


> Dutch: *proberen* (something like searching thoroughly, as in 'to probe'


Polish: *próbować.  *
The meaning is just "to try" in most possible contexts. I always thought it was a natively Polish word, now I see it may be Germanic.
There are variations of it, like spróbować (perfective to try or to taste),  wypróbować (to test sth, perfective), popróbować (to try couple of times, perfective), etc., etc.
To try (some) clothes on - *przymierzyć* (jakieś) ubrania. From "miara", measurment.
There is also *testować* - to test and it's numerous perfective counterparts that I'm too lazy to list.


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## Medune

In Portuguese :
provar: to try (noun) out/on (new shoes, clothes, an exotic food)
experimentar:to experience, to try (noun) on, to try (noun/verb) out
tentar: to try to (either with a verb as direct object or as an intransitive verb), to tempt someone


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## Medune

810senior said:


> Japanese:
> *試すtames-u*(to try, try on clothes, test, have a go at), which is a simple word.



Aren't there in Japanese also:

(te form + miru) for trying sth. out and
(volitional + to suru) for attempting to do sth?


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## 810senior

Medune said:


> Aren't there in Japanese also:
> 
> (te form + miru) for trying sth. out and
> (volitional + to suru) for attempting to do sth?



That's right. 

Some examples:
後で聞いてみるわ。atode kiite miruwa (I'll try asking him later.)
何か言おうとしたが、すぐに忘れてしまった。nanika iou to shitaga, suguni wasurete shimatta (I tried saying something out but I forgot it soon.)


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## Medune

810senior said:


> That's right.
> 
> Some examples:
> 後で聞いてみるわ。atode kiite miruwa (I'll try asking him later.)
> 何か言おうとしたが、すぐに忘れてしまった。nanika iou to shitaga, suguni wasurete shimatta (I tried saying something out but I forgot it soon.)


Thank you for your reply!


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## ThomasK

Karton Realista said:


> Polish: *próbować.  *
> The meaning is just "to try" in most possible contexts. I always thought it was a natively Polish word, now I see it may be Germanic.


Could it not be Latin simply, as in_ provare, prouver_, etc. You do have something similar in German: _Probe_ (probieren?)



Medune said:


> Aren't there in Japanese also:
> 
> (te form + miru) for trying sth. out and
> (volitional + to suru) for attempting to do sth?


Can you use the root (...) /tames-u/, /mir-u/, /suru/ in other words not linked with trying specifically?


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## bibax

OCS: *-kusiti* (perf.), *-kušati *(impf.) with prefixes (is- o- po- ...)
from Gothic *kausjan* (ik kausja, þu kauseis, is kauseiþ, ...);

Czech (root -kus-, -kouš- also from Gothic kausjan; only with a prefix: z- o- po-):
*
zkusiti, okusiti, pokusiti se*  (perf.)
*zkoušeti, okoušeti, pokoušeti (se)* (impf.)

zkouška = examen, trial;
zkušený = experienced;
pokušení = temptation;
pokušitel = tempter;
pokus = attempt, experiment; pokusný = experimental;
vkus (< Rus. вкус) = taste (only in the sense: to have a good/refined/poor taste);

Hocus-pocus sounds familiar to our ears (pokus).

Colloquially sometimes:
*prubnout* < ... < Lat. probare (probatum est = it has been proved);
Prubni to! (Lit. Czech: Zkus to!) = Try it! Give it a shot!


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## ThomasK

Very interesting words, because they show related concepts (or am I wrong when I put it that way?).

@Apmoy: could your passion verb have to do with tempting (and temptation), as in _at-tempt_?


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## Karton Realista

bibax said:


> *prubnout* < ... < Lat. probare (probatum est = it has been proved);
> Prubni to! (Lit. Czech: Zkus to!) = Try it! Give it a shot!


Wouldn't that be "průbnout" for etymological reasons? Since it comes from prObare and is similiar to (pl) prÓbować (or to a purely hipotetical word prÓbnĄć)?


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## Karton Realista

bibax said:


> pokusiti se


Pokusić się - to dare (to make a statement, judjment, to do sth, usually sth wrong or risky)

Skusić - 1. to not hit where you wanted to, to make a mistake 2. to lure sb to do sth (kogoś do czegoś)
Skusić się - to be lured to do sth (dać się skusić), to try sth new (synonymous to "namówić" or "przekonać się")
Kusić - to try to coerce, to tempt
Pokusa - temptation
Pokuszenie - temptation, but in a more religious sense

We have taken quite a different route with this.
PS. I was listening to a Slovak love song and there was a line "skúšali mnohí tak skúšme i my", I laughed at this line even though I knew back then what "skúšať" means.


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## bibax

Karton Realista said:


> Wouldn't that be "průbnout" for etymological reasons? Since it comes from prObare and is similiar to (pl) prÓbować (or to a purely hypothetical word prÓbnĄć)?


Yes, průbnout is also possible. However the verb is very colloquial.


Karton Realista said:


> Pokuszenie - temptation, but in a more religious sense


Yes. Ďábel nás pokouší. = The devil tempt us.


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## Nawaq

In *French*, _essayer_ from _essai_, from Latin _exigere _and it's derivatives, _essayer de_, _s'essayer à, _plus various others with the same root (_essayiste, essayage, contre-essai, coup d'essai_ etc) ...


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## Medune

ThomasK said:


> Could it not be Latin simply, as in_ provare, prouver_, etc. You do have something similar in German: _Probe_ (probieren?)
> 
> 
> Can you use the root (...) /tames-u/, /mir-u/, /suru/ in other words not linked with trying specifically?



I am not quite sure if I understood your question_. _Are you asking for the usage of those verbs apart from the context of _trying_?

If that's so:

Miru:
I think temiru derives from the verb _to see,  miru. _Nevertheless, I have never seen the _mi _in _-temiru_ written with the kanji for _see 「見」- _i.e_.  ーてみる  is used instead of　ーて見る. _I always think of _-temiru _as _do sth. to see (its outcome)_, though.
Suru:
_Suru_ generally means _to do_. In its sense it functions as a quite prolific verbaliser to Chinese and foreign origin nouns - for exemple, 勉強 _benkyou--->study(n.)  |_  勉強する_ benkyou suru_--->_study (v.). _Suru is otherwise as broad as to encompass such distinct meanings as  _play _(sports)_; wear (accessories, makeup) ;  choose or "go with" _(among several alternatives, ordering in a restaurant)_, cost, feel, smell_...(inexhaustive list). I guess you caught the gist...maybe.

Anyways, Japanese verbal stems are bit different from what one might expect:
tamesu--> tameshi 
miru -->mi
suru --> shi
試すーー＞試し
見るーー＞見
するーー＞し


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## ThomasK

@Medune: thanks a lot!

While exploring links between pain, punish(ment) and effort, I suddenly realized that

-* to try *can have an impersonal subect in : a trying experience, a trying time (somehow strange to me)
- _*trial*_ may perhaps mean the same as "try" or "attempt", but it is more commonly used as "a putting to proof by testing", as in "trying by ordeal"

I suppose this has to do with probing, which reminds me of the Dutch *proberen*, "to try". How intricate!

Maybe there is something interesting about _*tenter (de).* _It can mean _try/at-tempt, _but also _tempt. _not the same as _trying, _but here again there is an extra meaning ('to try' used with impersonal subject) linked with the "basic" one.


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## 123xyz

Macedonian:

*пробува/проба *(cognate to Dutch "probieren", Italian "provare", etc.) - more informal
*се обидува/се обиде* (I don't know the etymology) - more formal; possibly implying greater effort, or at least greater interest in succeeding, but that depends on the context

The first one can mean "try" as in "try food" or "try clothes on" too, but the second cannot.


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