# 'j' or an 'ł' at the end of a word



## downfallofutopia

I have been working very hard at my pronunciation (what's the use in learning a language if no one can understand you when you speak it?) One thing that I haven't been able to figure out is how to pronounce a 'j' or an 'ł' at the end of a word. Quick example is kraj (country) or przyjaciół (friend).


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## Thomas1

downfallofutopia said:


> I have been working very hard at my pronunciation (what's the use in learning a language if no one can understand you when you speak it?) One thing that I haven't been able to figure out is how to pronounce a 'j' or an 'ł' at the end of a word. Quick example is kraj (country) or przyjaciół (friend).


Hello downfallofutopia,

The first letter _j_ is pronounced as English _y_ in *y*_es_; one thing worth mentioning is that the _a_ is pronounced as _a_ in _b*u*t_ (and this is, I think, the only way we pronounce this sound, conversely to English where you can find at least three different _a_s).
I’ve just thought of the way we pronounce _ja_ (I) if you can pronounce this then pronounce it backwards. 

The second one — _ł_ – is, roughly speaking, an equivalent of English _w_ as in _*w*ork_.

You could also try to use the Polish speech synthesizer, I have just tried it and it works quite well.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask them.



Tom

BTW: Did I say welcome? I guess I didn’t.

Welcome to the forums, downfallofutopia.


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## übermönch

Isn't "cry" pronounced the same way as "kraj"?


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## Thomas1

übermönch said:


> Isn't "cry" pronounced the same way as "kraj"?


Well, almost.
The main difference is_ r_ but the whole rest is pretty much the same, anyway, that's a very good comparsion, in my opinion. 

Tom


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## beclija

Try to pronounce "cry" with a Scotch or Northern British "r", that'll be the best approximation to "kraj" (although it's not quite the same).


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## downfallofutopia

Dziękuję państwo bardzo za pomoc. 

I think that is the correct way of spelling that. Either way your replies have helped very much. I have tried the synthesizer and it unfortunately did not work for me. I will fool around with it some more, but until then I hope you don't mind me asking more questions.

Thanks again.


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## Anatoli

Unlike English w in some positions, Polish ł is always a consonant, not part  of  diphthong (as in ro*w*).

Note that it is never palatalised (if it is, then it becomes an "l"). It is pronounced as English w not only in front of vowels but in any position and can also follow the "u" vowel (as in put), which is impossible in English.


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## Seana

downfallofutopia said:


> (...)how to pronounce a 'j' or an 'ł' at the end of a word. Quick example is kraj (country) or przyjaciół (friend).


 
Hi downfallofutopia,
Yesterday I wanted to help you and write the word "przyjaciół" in a phonetic transcription but I have found nothing what could be similar for sound "przy" which is little close to "pshi".
Would anyone be able to write this word "przyjaciół" in the phonetic transcription?


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## se16teddy

Anatoli said:


> It is pronounced as English w not only in front of vowels but in any position and can also follow the "u" vowel (as in put), which is impossible in English.


Well, in standard English anyway. Many speakers in parts of South-East England pronouce l's as w, so they pronounce the -ool in 'tool' just the same as 'ół' in 'przyjaciół' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-vocalisation


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## Anatoli

Seana said:


> Hi downfallofutopia,
> Yesterday I wanted to help you and write the word "przyjaciół" in a phonetic transcription but I have found nothing what could be similar for sound "przy" which is little close to "pshi".
> Would anyone be able to write this word "przyjaciół" in the phonetic transcription?


English rough transliteration: [pshiy*a*ch'uw] or using IPA: [pʂɨ'jaʨuw]

The "sh" is hard (unpalatalised) and the "ch" is soft (palatalised), so I put the apostrophe to mark palatalisation.

For the meaning of symbols:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_phonology

"przy" is close to "pshi" but there's a big difference between ś (ɕ) and sz/or rz in a voiceless position (ʂ) - English "sh" is something in between. You really need to pay attention so you pronounce "si" and "szy" differently.

Also there's a difference between Polish i _ and y [ɨ]. This pair is identical to Russian и and ы._


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## Anatoli

se16teddy said:


> Well, in standard English anyway. Many speakers in parts of South-East England pronouce l's as w, so they pronounce the -ool in 'tool' just the same as 'ół' in 'przyjaciół' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-vocalisation



Agree that some English speakers vocalise l, I personally had some trouble finding a shop in Australia a long time ago called "O'Phones", which was "All Phones". The person vocalised l and I only heard [w] instead


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## Seana

Anatoli said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_phonology


 
Thank you very much for your post and link.


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