# 節操を守る男



## josehia

I want to know what these this word mean??  節操を守る男


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## mannenhitsu

1. a man who had decided to remain virgin
by extension :
2. a man not considering women as sex objects


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## Aoyama

> 1. a man who had decided to remain virgin
> by extension :
> 2. a man not considering women as sex objects


That may be a bit farfetched.
In fact, just : "a man living up to his principles/strong on [keeping his] principles".
I don't see anything related to virginity here ... or women as sex objects (!?) ...


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## mannenhitsu

OP's  節操　"sessou" is usually connected to 　ある　"aru" or 　ない　"nai", 
in his/her　 posting 守る　"mamoru" should be connected with 貞操　"teisou", 
therefore the construction as it is strange, 
and the forced connection  read by a Japanese translates into my two points.


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## JimmySeal

節操を守る is a fine expression and it doesn't have to imply 貞操:
http://eow.alc.co.jp/節操を守る/UTF-8/


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## Aoyama

> 節操を守る is a fine expression and it doesn't have to imply 貞操


Absolutely. 
I think (with due respect) that our friend Mannenhitsu is on the wrong track here.


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## lammn

JimmySeal said:


> http://eow.alc.co.jp/節操を守る/UTF-8/


 


Aoyama said:


> "a man living up to his principles/strong on [keeping his] principles".


 
Yup, this is _one of_ the meanings of 節操を守る男 - a man living up to his principles.



Aoyama said:


> I don't see anything related to virginity here ... or women as sex objects (!?) ...


 
Click here and you will find that the _other_ meaning of 節操 is "chastity".



mannenhitsu said:


> 1. a man who had decided to remain virgin
> by extension :
> 2. a man not considering women as sex objects


 
Mannenhitsu, that is one of the meanings related to 節操, or "chastity".
Apart from a man who decide to remain virginity, a married man who is loyal to his wife (i.e. not having sex with other women) can also be considered as 節操を守る男.


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## Aoyama

So ...節操 can also mean "chastity" or "virginity" (which is understandable, chastity being a vow, or a principle in life), and a man vowing to remain chaste will therefore NOT consider women as sex objects (he won't have any sex objects, obviously), BUT, this being said and argued, I still dare think that the original meaning of the phrase is more "neutral" (or else, we need context).


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## mannenhitsu

Agreed that without context this discussion is meaningless.

However I stand by my writing about the used combination beeing wrong, and linked examples do not constitute proof, 
if we are to trust blindly dictionnaries, this forum looses its purpose.

Some reading for ya
http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&stype=0&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%BF%E3%81%95%E3%81%8A


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## Flaminius

I have no doubt that this phrase means a man who abides by his principles.  節操 is almost always principles or beliefs or desirable behaviours that individuals or groups conceive of as their morals.  I have found a lot of instances of 節操 being chastity while searching Web pages and they are mostly found in marriage avowals used by Protestant churches.


			
				mannenhitsu said:
			
		

> OP's  節操 "sessou" is usually connected to ある "aru" or ない "nai",
> in his/her posting 守る "mamoru" should be connected with 貞操 "teisou",
> therefore the construction as it is strange,
> and the forced connection  read by a Japanese translates into my two points.


If a language can talk about possessing 節操 in sense of principles (ある/ない), 節操を守る is a natural expression for determination to keep in possession of these principles.  The exact wording may turn out to be rare, but I don't find it wrong.

Long time ago the chastity sense of 節操 may have been more prevalent than it is today.  Even then the virginity/sexual fidelity sense feels extraneous here because it was almost always desired for a woman, not a man.  Such was the spirit of the time.  Go figure.


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## Hiro Sasaki

josehia said:


> I want to know what these this word mean?? 節操を守る男


 
節操を守る　has two meanings. But, we use it more often meaning "stick 
to the moral values", in many cases, "faithful to the basic professional 
moral values." For example, 政治家としての節操、　商人としての節操。

経営者としての節操。　節操 can be accepted as meaning something like 
節度


When a woman is faithful to her husband,or unmarried woman tries to 
be virgin  "操( みさお）　を守る”is more clear and has less chances to be
ambiguous. 


Hiro Sasaki


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