# Urdu, Hindi: demeure



## littlepond

The French word literally means "delay": and hence, a literary extension  for "habitation, home" (where you delay, sojourn for a long time). I am  wondering if there is any word in Hindi/Urdu that has similar etymology  or parallel connections.

The closest I could think of was "Thikaana", which probably derives from  where one "Tiktaa hai": "Tiknaa" is to stay put, not really "delay for a  long time" but still close enough. However, the word belongs to  colloquial register, whereas "demeure" belongs to high register  (literary). Any better suggestions?

Thank you for transliterating both Urdu and Hindi scripts in roman script, if that doesn't pose too much of a problem.

Thanks once again!


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## Qureshpor

^ Yes, I think "Thikaanaa" is a good example and could possibly be connected with the verb "Tiknaa". A closer Urdu and Hindi word for "demeure" could be "rahaa'ish" often pronounced "rihaa'ish", having its basis in the verb "rahnaa". You know the various meanings this verb imparts.

Also "baseraa" and "bastii" from "basnaa"

dil kaa ujaRnaa sahl sahii, basnaa sahl nahiiN zaalim
bastii basnaa khel nahiiN baste baste bastii hai

Fani Badayuni (1879-1961)


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## marrish

What about [U.] _iqaamat-gaah_ (a place of sojourn, holding halt) hence 'habitation'?


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> What about [U.] _iqaamat-gaah_ (a place of sojourn, holding halt) hence 'habitation'?


 Yes, and this too for an etymological relationship:

*مسکن   maskan* = جائے سکونت _jaa'e sukuunat_ (= abode / place of habitation). The verb is _*saakin*_ (ساکِن) _*honaa*_.


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## littlepond

Thank you, everyone; Alfaaz jii and Faylasoof jii also introduced me to new words and Quresh jii to some wonderful verse yet again. Are "maskan" (a new word for me) and "makaan" related? Doesn't "makaan" also mean "where one is stationary"? I don't know from which verb does "makaan" come forth (if it does from a verbal root).


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## Qureshpor

^ I think you meant to write marrish Jii and...

"makaan" usually used for a house also has the meaning of "space" in Urdu, space and opposed to time. The usual phrase is "zamaan-o-makaan".

makaan comes from the Arabic root "kawana" which is contracted to "kaana" to be, to occupy, to exist etc. "makaan" is the noun of place contracted from "makwan", I think.

maskan is again a noun of place from the verb "sakana" to dwell. (saakin means a dweller). You might have come across this word in another form. In Urdu, when we are writing an address on a letter (at least in older days if not any more), this was the usual format..

tiis maar xaan valad chaaliis maar xan (valad = son of)

saknah: ThaThaa-pur (saknah = location)

teHsiil: latiifah-aabaad (taHsiil: revenue collection place)

zila3 : chuTkulaa (zila3 = District)

Punjab, Pakistan.

.............................

mastii ke phir aa ga'e zamaane
aabaad hu'e sharaab-xaane

*maskan* hai qafas meN bulbuloN kaa (qafas = cage)
viiraan paRe haiN aashiyaane (aashiyaanah = nest)

Hasarat Mohani (1875-1951)

sitaaroN se aage jahaaN aur bhii haiN
abhii 3ishq ke imtiHaaN aur bhii haiN

isii roz-o-shab meN ulajh kar nah rah jaa
kih tere zamaan-o-*makaaN* aur bhii haiN

Iqbal (1877-1938)


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## littlepond

Oh, sorry marrish jii, if you read this post, I did mean marrish jii and ... Thanks, Quresh jii!

Thank you for the clarifications: I do know the word "saknah". I haven't heard it now since such a long time: you have refreshed old memories for me  By the way, your fictional address is giving me a lot of _haahaakaar_  To continue it further ... _vatan : mazaak _? or _dillagii_?


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> Yes, and this too for an etymological relationship:
> 
> *مسکن   maskan* = جائے سکونت _jaa'e sukuunat_ (= abode / place of habitation). The verb is _*saakin*_ (ساکِن) _*honaa*_.



The verb is a dialectical thing, it has most definitely derived from Arabic and can vary between Siikin and Saakin.


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## Qureshpor

Does "nivaas" in Hindi fit the bill?


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## littlepond

^ Quresh jii, thanks for the suggestion, but "aavaas", "nivaas" and "bastii" (all three from "vaas", abode, settlement) do not fit the bill, since I don't see the sense of "to tarry longer, to delay a while" - the original sense of "demeure", which by extension gave rise to the meaning of habitation. If marrish jii's suggestion in post no. 3 is an accurate translation, then till now only that has come close to the sense I'm looking for, though I'm feeling that there is a word like that, and I'm not getting it!

By the way, marrish jii, could you please elaborate more on the roots of your suggestions: what's "iqaamat" and are there related words to it?


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## Qureshpor

^ OK, I also believe you are looking for a higher register word. "maqaam" can mean "place of staying/standing" but more appropriate would be "qiyaam-gaah" and "iqaamat-gaah" for residence. All these words share the common root connected with staying/standing. If I think of anything more appropriate, I shall get back.


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## littlepond

^ If higher register, all the better, but I would still appreciate it if I find something which does have the sense of "delaying, tarrying" in it, regardless of the register. Thanks for the suggestions, Quresh jii.


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## Cilquiestsuens

I beg to differ, *demeurer* doesn't mean delaying and only fits the bill for one meaning of tarrying (meaning 2 here).

While 'delay' means to postpone / putt off doing something, on the opposite, *demeurer* means to '_stay engaged with one task / remain in the same condition for a long time_'.

You have the most complete defintion of _*demeurer *_including its old meaning here. If you can read it all, you will see it never meant to delay.

The best Urdu or Hindi translation for it would be *rahnaa*.


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## littlepond

^ I am sorry, Cilquiestsuens jii, but you're wrong: the very first definition in TLFi, is "tarder" for "demeurer". It is an old usage, not used anymore, but it is from there that the other meanings come from. If you go to the noun "demeure" itself now, the primary (and old) meaning is again "Fait de tarder à faire quelque chose, retard." TLFi also says for "demeure" that "L'idée dominante est celle de retard" (for those who don't know French, "retard" means "lateness": i.e., if someone is 5 minutes late, he is 5 minutes in "retard").

My question, by the way, is about Hindi translation for "demeure" when it means house, not for the verb "demeurer", so "rahnaa" (which anyway doesn't carry any notion of lateness) doesn't seem to me to fit the bill.


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## Cilquiestsuens

littlepond said:


> ^ I am sorry, Cilquiestsuens jii, but you're wrong: the very first definition in TLFi, is "tarder" for "demeurer". It is an old usage, not used anymore, but it is from there that the other meanings come from. If you go to the noun "demeure" itself now, the primary (and old) meaning is again "Fait de tarder à faire quelque chose, retard." TLFi also says for "demeure" that "L'idée dominante est celle de retard" (for those who don't know French, "retard" means "lateness": i.e., if someone is 5 minutes late, he is 5 minutes in "retard").
> 
> My question, by the way, is about Hindi translation for "demeure" when it means house, not for the verb "demeurer", so "rahnaa" (which anyway doesn't carry any notion of lateness) doesn't seem to me to fit the bill.



I repeat what I said before; even in the so called 'old meaning', that is actually still understood, it means to take a long time to do something, not to delay something as you have written above and that was the meaning in Old French too. (''s'attarder''), so there is a gap between that verb and the idea of delaying something.


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## littlepond

^ I think maybe my English translation "to delay" is bothering you, Cilquiestsuens jii. "s'attarder" is "derii karnaa", with the "se" signifying that the person or object is doing _derii_ him/her/itself. "s'attarder" also means "apnaa samay lenaa": that is, to go beyond a deadline, fixed time, etc. - the "delaying" is again implicit here. I do agree with you that "s'attarder" can translate to ... not "rahnaa", but "rah jaanaa", which is a different beast.

To take an example sentence from TLFi again: « Ne *t'attarde* point trop, dit Grange, la nuit sera bientôt là. » In Hindi, that would be "Zyaada der mat kar denaa/Kahin rah mat jaanaa, Grange ne kahaa, raat hone ko hai." I still see _der_ (lateness, delay, tarrying): if you do not agree with me, Cilquiestsuens jii, that's fine: you can still suggest to me a word in Hindi-Urdu that has the admixture of _derii_, even if you do not identify it with _demeure(r)_.

To take the old usage example of _demeure _itself from TLFi, an example is given there as "faire qqc sans demeure" - doing something without "demeure" - binaa derii ke/binaa vaqt liye kuchh karnaa/tura(n)t hii kuchh karnaa/binaa Taale kuchh karnaa. "Demeure" can thus mean the fact of "vaqt lenaa, bitaana/derii karnaa/Taalnaa/ruknaa/samay vyatiit karnaa."



Cilquiestsuens said:


> ... it means to take a long time to do something, not to delay something ...



Often, but not necessarily: rather, to take more time than anticipated/agreed upon/looked for.


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## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> I beg to differ, *demeurer* doesn't mean delaying and only fits the bill for one meaning of tarrying (meaning 2 here).
> 
> While 'delay' means to postpone / putt off doing something, on the opposite, *demeurer* means to '_stay engaged with one task / remain in the same condition for a long time_'.
> 
> You have the most complete defintion of _*demeurer *_including its old meaning here. If you can read it all, you will see it never meant to delay.
> 
> The best Urdu or Hindi translation for it would be *rahnaa*.


If this is the case, then the Urdu "rahaa'ish" (with the added Persian suffix -ish) is the best fit, don't you think?


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## Cilquiestsuens

^ I don't feel like 'demeurer' (abide) too long on this topic. My point was that the basic meaning of demeurer is 'remain'. I was thinking it is very awkward and even wrong to translate it by 'delay'. And yes, I did think that rahaa'ish was the best fit.

And I don't think it is necessary to overstretch the meaning of any word, otherwise, we may become 'demeurés' (retarded).

Considering the last meaning I mentioned here, just asking littlepond if the word he / she wants should include the meaning of 'retarded' too?


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## littlepond

^ Ha ha, after all, someone whose intelligence is behind (late), is a 'demeuré', isn't it? 

In the domain of law, we also say "_Être en *demeure* de livrer une chose._" (to be late in delivering something)

I am afraid that "remaining" doesn't fit here. Of course, "demeurer" means "to remain" often: but that is not its primary meaning. It is not me who is saying that: in post no. 16, I already linked you to TLFi saying "L'idée dominante est celle de retard" (an old usage, though).

In case you want to go the root of _demeure_, let's take the Latin _mora_: (and you may want to check here as well)

_(from Wiktionnaire)_



Délai, retard.
_*moram* afferre bello._ retarder la guerre.
_*moram* supplicio quaerere._ chercher à retarder le supplice.

Obstacle.
Pause, espace de temps, intervalle, temps d'arrêt, répit.
_*mora* temporis (= temporis spatium)_ laps de temps.
 

In any case, to belabour something that two people don't agree on is not the objective here. Thanks for the suggestion, Quresh jii, but remaining is different for me from tarrying, so still not the answer I'm looking for.

Edit: See here. The very first meaning is "Retard, délai." From the same, an example from 18th century:
"Et que ceux qui seraient en demeure [retard] de payer ..."
(aur ve sabhi jo ... chukaane mein derii se honge ...)


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## littlepond

I did remember a word that had escaped my memory, that comes close to the sense of "demeure": Thiyaa.

The word conveys the sense of a temporary halt (maybe from "Thaiharnaa"?) that has become abode, dwelling for the time being; as for register, it is used colloquially, but it can be used in poetry as well (as it conveys a slightly rustic feel).

Interestingly, this dictionary gives meanings for "Thiyaa" all alien to me but not the one familiar to me (home, dwelling).


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