# have spoken-have been speaking



## krebber

Does anyone know of a thread that explains this:

What are the Italian grammatical terms for these two versions. They basically mean the same thing.

I have spoken English for twenty years
I have been speaking English for twenty years.

(I think I missed that day when I was at school.  )

Grazie


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## Nuzzu7

I think in Italian they both translate to the same thing:

Parlo inglese da venti anni.

Nuzzu7


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## krebber

che avere senso

grazie


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## Elisa68

I have spoken English for twenty years -->Ho parlato inglese per vent'anni
I have been speaking English for twenty years ---->Sono vent'anni che parlo inglese _or_ Parlo inglese da vent'anni


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## Juri

No difference, or  very little:
I have spoken English for 20 years, than I transferred to Quebec and began with French.
I have been speaking E for 20 years, but today, you see,I have forgotten a lot.


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## moodywop

Juri and Elisa

I think it should be "I spoke" rather than "I have spoken" if you're referring to something that occurred in a clearly defined time frame in the past:

_Ho parlato inglese ogni giorno dopo essere emigrato in Canada. Da quando sono tornato a vivere nel mio paesino d'origine non ho più occasione di parlarlo_

_I spoke English every day after emigrating to Canada. Ever since I moved back to my native village I haven't had a chance to speak English_

So I agree with Nuzzu 100%. I think the two examples both mean _parlo inglese da vent'anni._

Do native speakers of English agree?

Carlo


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## carrickp

moodywop said:
			
		

> So I agree with Nuzzu 100%. I think the two examples both mean _parlo inglese da vent'anni._
> 
> Do native speakers of English agree?
> 
> Carlo



Yes, I agree.

In a related question, I'm still confused about the progressive in Italian. In this case can you say, "Sto parlando inglese da venti anni" ?


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## lsp

carrickp said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree.
> 
> In a related question, I'm still confused about the progressive in Italian. In this case can you say, "Sto parlando inglese da venti anni" ?


Parlo is better than sto parlando for something that occurs over time, I think (usual caveat about other opinions applies). In questo momento sto scrivendo in italiano, scrivo in italiano da molti anni.


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## Juri

Better not. Saying so, it seams you didn't stop speaking for 20 years . (Without eating and sleeping)
To whome don't or want not understand, we ask often:"Parlo turco?"
When Turkey get in EU, better forget it!


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## Willi

carrickp said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree.
> 
> In a related question, I'm still confused about the progressive in Italian. In this case can you say, "Sto parlando inglese da venti anni" ?


 
No, you can't, "parlo" is the correct tense. If you say "sto parlando inglese da vent'anni" it means that you began speaking 20 years ago and have never stopped yet
Corrections welcome!


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## lsp

Juri said:
			
		

> Better not. Saying so, it se*e*ms you didn't stop speaking for 20 years . (Without eating and sleeping)
> To whome don't or want not understand, we ask often:"Parlo turco?"
> When Turkey get in EU, better forget it!


I have no idea what this part has to do with the price of tea in China (as we say) but there are grammatical problems nonetheless.
To one who can't (doesn't) or doesn't want to understand, we often ask... (note - whom has no final 'e,' in any case)
When Turkey gets into the EU, forget it!


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## ERI

i agree with you 
Is anyone who doesn't want to understand , well this is my opinion


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## Juri

Thankful for lsp's corrections of my 40 years old E.I have worked only with German, It.& two slavic languages and began with transl. FROM English just three months back.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Actually I think that this specific sentence is misleading for our English-speaking friends. Here the 20 years (long time) make the context specific and in Italian requires the present.

What about if you had:
I have spoken on the phone for twenty minutes
I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes

I think we would say:
Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti.

Sono stato a parlare al telefono per venti minuti
Sto parlando al telefono da venti minuti  (_as carrick suggests_)

(which one?? well I have not clear if "I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes" means that the action is finished or it is still occurring ?? Help!!)



			
				carrickp said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree.
> 
> In a related question, I'm still confused about the progressive in Italian. In this case can you say, "Sto parlando inglese da venti anni" ?


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## Willi

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> What about if you had:
> I have spoken on the phone for twenty minutes
> I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes
> 
> I think we would say:
> Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti.
> 
> Sono stato a parlare al telefono per venti minuti
> Sto parlando al telefono da venti minuti
> 
> (which one?? well I have not clear if "I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes" means that the action is finished or it is still occurring ?? Help!!)


 
I'm not sure but I think that 
Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti is
I *had *spoken/*had* been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes


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## ElaineG

> (which one?? well I am not clear on whether "I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes" means that the action is finished or is it still occurring ?? Help!!)


 
It most likely means that it is still occurring: Sto parlando al telefono da venti minuti. 

Depending on context, it could mean that you _just_ finished speaking on the phone. "I'm sorry I didn't hear the doorbell; I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes."


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## luke_77

That's an action started in the past which is still occurring in the present: ex: I' ve been living here since I was a child. The tense is called: DURATION FORM.

Studied at school at the grammar lesson.

Luke


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## moodywop

carrickp said:
			
		

> In a related question, I'm still confused about the progressive in Italian. In this case can you say, "Sto parlando inglese da venti anni" ?


 
I agree with Willi that with a verb like _parlare _you would only use the continuous form followed by _da _to refer to non-stop, continuous talking(I should know - I'm the holder of the world record ):

_Che barba! Sta parlando senza sosta da quattro ore_
_What a drag! He's been speaking non-stop for four hours_

*but*

_Non parlo inglese da molti anni_
_Non ci parliamo(we haven't spoken to each other) da vent'anni_

This raises an interesting question though. With some other verbs I would happily use the continuous form even to refer to long stretches of time:

_Sto studiando/studio l'inglese da dieci anni ma ho ancora una pessima pronuncia_

_Sto cercando di farglielo capire da dieci anni ma non c'e verso_
_I've been trying to get this through to him for the past ten years but it's a hopeless task_

Do natives concur?


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## moodywop

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> What about if you had:
> I have spoken on the phone for twenty minutes
> I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes
> 
> I think we would say:
> Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti.


 
The trouble is that _ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti_ usually means _I spoke on the phone, _i.e. it may well refer to a conversation that took place yesterday(e.g. if you were complaining about the hefty charge for a 20-minute call from a hotel room).

The use of the present perfect in English vs the present tense in Italian to express "duration" can cause serious misunderstandings. An English friend of mine pointed to a block of flats and said _Ho abitato qui per 3 anni. _So I said _E dove abiti ora?. _Looking puzzled, he said _Qui!. _So I realized he had translated literally from English(_I've been living here for 3 years)._ He should have said _Abito qui da tre anni._


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Hi Carlo, I have put a spacing (#14) between the first sentence and the other 2 because I meant:
I have spoken on the phone for twenty minutes
to be rendered by:
Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti.
while the problem was about the other 2. I was unsure which one is the correct translation of 
"I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes"

(sorry if not clear!)



			
				moodywop said:
			
		

> The trouble is that _ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti_ usually means _I spoke on the phone, _i.e. it may well refer to a conversation that took place yesterday(e.g. if you were complaining about the hefty charge for a 20-minute call from a hotel room).
> 
> The use of the present perfect in English vs the present tense in Italian to express "duration" can cause serious misunderstandings. An English friend of mine pointed to a block of flats and said _Ho abitato qui per 3 anni. _So I said _E dove abiti ora?. _Looking puzzled, he said _Qui!. _So I realized he had translated literally from English(_I've been living here for 3 years)._ He should have said _Abito qui da tre anni._


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## ElaineG

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Hi Carlo, I [] put a space (#14) between the first sentence and the other 2 because I meant:
> I have spoken on the phone for twenty minutes
> to be rendered by:
> Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti.
> while the problem was about the other 2. I was unsure which one is the correct translation of
> "I have been speaking on the phone for twenty minutes"
> 
> (sorry if not clear!)


 
Tommaso, ti ho gia dato la risposta (post #16). So che sono solo una donna, e per questo non vuoi mai ascoltare le mie spiegazioni, ma infatti conosco bene la mia lingua e anche un po' della tua.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Yes I read it (even though you are a girl  !). My point was another. I wanted to make clear I was not proposing "Ho parlato al telefono per venti minuti" to translate the progressive form.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Tommaso, ti ho già dato la risposta (post #16). So che sono solo una donna, e per questo non vuoi mai ascoltare le mie spiegazioni, ma infatti conosco bene la mia lingua e anche un po' della tua.


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## ElaineG

Non si può dire "infatti conosco bene ....."? 

How would you say "in fact" in that context?


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## Elisa68

Elaine,
potresti dire "in realta' ", in questo caso.


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## moodywop

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Non si può dire "infatti conosco bene ....."?
> 
> How would you say "in fact" in that context?


 
There'a long thread on _infatti/actually/in fact_

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=49743&highlight=infatti


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## ElaineG

Wow, cool thread.  Grazie, Carlo, dormi bene.

Grazie, *elisa* per l'aiuto e anche per l'avvertimento


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

If you wanted to translate "but in fact I know well my ..." I am afraid that "infatti" would be a false friend. "in fact" here would be closer to "in realtà", "veramente", "di fatto". In general, perhaps, translating "*in fact*" with "*di fatto*" you run less risks to do a wrong translation. I think for learners "_infatti_" is not that easy to use.

Deve amarla molto, infatti le perdona qualunque cosa.
Oggi forse pioverà, infatti tutti hanno l'ombrello.

in general you have:
--> A sentence, _*infatti*_ (another sentence which strengthens or explains the first one) <--

it's different from "in fact", although sometimes could translate it.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Non si può dire "infatti conosco bene ....."?
> 
> How would you say "in fact" in that context?


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## ElaineG

It's not that hard; Carlo's explanation in the thread he linked was perfect.  I recommend it to anyone else interested in the topic.


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## Ten

per me questa cosa dei tempi present perfect e present perfect continuous resterà sempre un mistero! -_-'


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## tuckg43

As a native English speaker, I disagree with what was said about how it should be "I spoke English for 20 years" instead of "I have spoken English for 20 years".

If you say "I spoke English for 20 years", it would mean that you used to do it for those 20 years but do not do it anymore. And therefore, would really not make any sense.

"I have spoken English for 20 years" is certainly correct in this case. Oppure... "I have been speaking English for 20 years"


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