# Переуважена (from Mandelstam poem)



## yjom324

Hi everyone. I'm writing regarding Mandelstam's poem 'Чернозем':




     Переуважена, перечерна, вся в холе,
     Вся в холках маленьких, вся воздух и призор,
     Вся рассыпаючись, вся образуя хор,--
     Комочки влажные моей земли и воли...

     В дни ранней пахоты черна до синевы,
     И безоружная в ней зиждется работа --
     Тысячехолмие распаханной молвы:
     Знать, безокружное в окружности есть что-то.

     И все-таки, земля -- проруха и обух.
     Не умолить ее, как в ноги ей ни бухай:
     Гниющей флейтою настраживает слух,
     Кларнетом утренним зазябливает ухо...

     Как на лемех приятен жирный пласт,
     Как степь лежит в апрельском провороте!
     Ну, здравствуй, чернозем: будь мужествен, глазаст..
     Черноречивое молчание в работе.


I just wondered what 'Переуважена' means in this context. Also, what does the 'Вся' refer to in the phrases 'вся в холе' and 'вся воздух и призор'. Also, does 'проруха' simply mean 'mistake'?

Many thanks in advance.


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## rusita preciosa

Wow! What a text to try to interpret!



yjom324 said:


> I just wondered what 'Переуважена' means in this context. It's an author's word, so there'll be as many interpretations as readers. To me personally it means something like "taken excessive care of"
> 
> Also, what does the 'Вся' refer to in the phrases 'вся в холе' and 'вся воздух и призор' It means exactly what it is: "all"
> вся в холе - she/it is all pampered
> вся воздух и призор - she/it is all air and clear sight (the last word is again my personal interpretation)
> 
> Also, does 'проруха' simply mean 'mistake'?  - to me, yes


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## Maroseika

yjom324 said:


> Also, what does the 'Вся' refer to in the phrases 'вся в холе' and 'вся воздух и призор'.



It refers to земля.



> Also, does 'проруха' simply mean 'mistake'?


I don't think so. At least with 'mistake' it has no sense. On the other hand, I cannot see any sense with any other meaning of this world. Maybe be 'a failure' or 'flop'?


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## Selyd

Переуважена, перечерна
К земле проявлено уважение многократно и многими.
Чернозём = черным-черна земля.


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## morzh

Selyd said:


> Чернозём = черным-черна земля.



??????? Чернозем - просто тип почвы, достато-но темный из-за обилия гумуса. А не замена выражению "черным-черна земля".


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## ExMax

OK, regarding "переуважена". "Пере-"+verb means excessiveness of an action. Refer here, p. 9.
"Уважить" means "to pay regard to somebody". So, you can catch the sense. 
"Вся" was used instead of "земля" as a subject in the clauses you mentioned.
Regarding "проруха". I would translate the phrase "земля -- проруха и обух" as "the soil can be a failure and a punishment". IMHO, though.


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## yjom324

Many thanks for all your informed replies. As a non-native speaker it has been fascinating to read such a wide spectrum of interpretations. That is testament to the poet's genius. 

I wondered what sense the word 'проруха' evokes, particularly in this context? It has been variously translated as 'mistake' and 'blunder', yet some think 'failure'. Would 'misfortune' be a possible interpretation? Is it a word one encounters outside the hermetic world of Mandelstam's poetry? 

In 'обух' would the Russian speaker immediately hear the echo of the phrase 'плетью обуха не перешибешь', and therefore think of an inefficient weapon? 

Does 'вся в холе' suggest 'pampered', or simply something being in peak condition? And what does everyone think about 'вся воздух и призор'. I'm not sure what he means by 'призор'. 

Thanks in advance.


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## morzh

yjom324 said:


> Many thanks for all your informed replies. As a non-native speaker it has been fascinating to read such a wide spectrum of interpretations. That is testament to the poet's genius.
> 
> 
> In 'обух' would the Russian speaker immediately hear the echo of the phrase 'плетью обуха не перешибешь', and therefore think of an inefficient weapon? - not necessarily, no. Обух is simply an ax butt. Whether it invokes a saying - depends on the situation..
> 
> Does 'вся в холе' suggest 'pampered', or simply something being in peak condition? - Холить - is to pamper, so it is "pampered and well looked after".
> And what does everyone think about 'вся воздух и призор'. I'm not sure what he means by 'призор'. - призор in the context means "the process of looking after someone". The meaning of "призор" is "observation, looking after". I doubt it is "clear sight" as was suggested previously
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## yjom324

Thanks Morzh. 

I had one last question regarding a key part of the poem, the line 'И безоружная в ней зиждется работа' in the following stanza:

В ни ранней пахоты черна до синевы,
И безоружная в ней зиждется работа --
Тысячехолмие распаханной молвы:
Знать, безокружное в окружности есть что-то.

Does 'в ней' in  'И безоружная в ней зиждется работа' refer to the earth (земля)? And does this 'безоружная работа' consist of the 'Тысячехолмие распаханной молвы'? Some think there is a link between the third and second line, so that the 'в ней' refers to the 'безоружная работа', i.e. they interpret it as meaning 'В безоружной работе зиждутся тысячехолмие распаханной молвы'. I would be very grateful to hear what you think.


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## Maroseika

Безоружная в ней зиждется работа = в ней производится работа без применения инструментов. Maybe the worms are meant, I don't know, but thousands of hillocks at the plough-land are assimilated to молва. 
So в ней refers only to the earth.
But what does it mean all together, I have no idea.


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## elemika

Not easy...just one more attempt.
The first poem in the Voronezh exile (1935) . The impression of the steppes and maybe the echo of his earlier thought/image (Нашедшему подкову, 1922): 
"Влажный чернозём Нееры (каждую ночь распаханный заново
Вилами, трезубцами, мотыгами, плугами)..."
_Переуважена_: уважить (оказать уважение, выполнив желание, угодить (to please)). I'm not sure about "excessive" here; rather "repeatedly", "over and over again" (ex.: читаный-перечитаный, штопаный-перештопаный). The earth (soil) "is pleased and pleased" by the thorough working/ cultivation; and "перечерна" is like "пречёрная" - extremely black (чёрная-пречёрная).
_Проруха и обух_ - agreed with ExMax ("a failure and a punishment"): под обух идти - идти на казнь, на большую неприятность. 

You see, chernozem was already used by M. as a simbol here: "Поэзия - плуг, взрывающий время так, что глубинные слои времени, его чернозём, оказываются сверху..."
So one could interpret the second stanza (and not only) also as written in figurative language. And "И все-таки земля - проруха и обух.." can be refered not only to the soil, but  to the poetry ( M. was exiled to Voronezh for his famous Stalin Ode)......


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## search3

yjom324 said:


> Hi everyone. I'm writing regarding Mandelstam's poem 'Чернозем':
> 
> Переуважена, перечерна, вся в холе,
> Вся в холках маленьких, вся воздух и призор,
> Вся рассыпаючись, вся образуя хор,--
> Комочки влажные моей земли и воли...
> 
> В дни ранней пахоты черна до синевы,
> И безоружная в ней зиждется работа --
> Тысячехолмие распаханной молвы:
> Знать, безокружное в окружности есть что-то.
> 
> И все-таки, земля -- проруха и обух.
> Не умолить ее, как в ноги ей ни бухай:
> Гниющей флейтою настраживает слух,
> Кларнетом утренним зазябливает ухо...
> 
> Как на лемех приятен жирный пласт,
> Как степь лежит в апрельском провороте!
> Ну, здравствуй, чернозем: будь мужествен, глазаст..
> Черноречивое молчание в работе.
> 
> 
> I just wondered what 'Переуважена' means in this context. Also, what does the 'Вся' refer to in the phrases 'вся в холе' and 'вся воздух и призор'. Also, does 'проруха' simply mean 'mistake'?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.



Guys, it was a real pleasure to follow such an interesting discussion but I have an impression that you're missing the point.
The thing is that careful interpretation of certain words in this poem is not important at all.
This poem is so great because of the great discovery: in the whole, it is built not on images or trops related to words but on the very general assotiations related to them, with emphasis on alliterations. Believe me, concrete meaning of words that you are discussing is as blury to Russian ear as to yours. 
If I saw the author's переуважена alone, or in a simple context, I would ponder over it's possible meaning: 1) eccess respect 2) eccess favour 3) over-furtilized (about soil). The secret is that when I go through the whole first line I do not think of any possible meaning, I'm distracted from the word and I get a very general impression of something fat, rich, and a little passive.
Воздух и призор - призор (loolking after smb, old-fashioned) makes no sense here, even metaphorically! But phonetically it immediately draws something like прозор, обзор - a broad sight, along with воздух - an unexpectedly strong impression of open space over the land.
Проруха и обух - did you notice о-у-х, heavy sounding? In a different context I would have to interpret проруха as old-fashioned for either blunder, or misfortune, or catch. In this particular combination, for some reason I simply don't need any meaning. I just get a precise impression of something crude, probably inevitable.
And so forth. Words are used and altered unexpectedly but always phonetically justified. In the whole - dirty and even rotten but furtile and admirable, isn't it?
Nevertheless, I would certainly welcome a detailed research on every single word here.
Excuse my English.


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## LilianaB

You are right. The poem is great as a whole, but since it is not really a Dadaistic poem, the meaning of the words is important as well, but in a poetic context, not in their regular usage. The words have meaning as well as a part of the whole and they create images being a part of the whole. The words should be analyzed, too, but from the perspective of literary analysis, not from purely linguistic point of view.


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## NiNulla

*Переуважена.* "Уважение", "важность" - да, это все родственные слова, но исторически они все восходят к слову "вага", которое означало "тяжесть", "вес" и - "борозда". В некоторых русских говорах, как и в некоторых славянских языках, сохранилось слово "важить" - "взвешивать", "тянуть своей тяжестью", отсюда первоначальное значение слова "важность" - "вес, значимость", "быть важным" = "иметь вес в обществе". Исходя из этого, я себе представляю землю, которая вся изборождена плугом, вся перепахана, вся переуважена.  Причем, "переуважена" фонетически переплетается с более современным словом "уважить" - "уважил старика=позаботился о старике", что создает свою тонкую ниточку ассоциаций и возможность фантазировать над текстом дальше.
Такова моя версия.

В пост-скриптуме хочется проследить за словом "*вага́*" дальше: во многих современных европейских языках, не только славянских, можно видеть родственные слова. "Waage"(нем.)- весы(знак зодиака); "weight"(англ.), "вага"(укр., блр.) - вес; "vaga"(лит.) - борозда etc


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## NiNulla

search3 said:


> Guys, it was a real pleasure to follow such an interesting discussion but I have an impression that you're missing the point.
> The thing is that careful interpretation of certain words in this poem is not important at all.
> This poem is so great because of the great discovery: in the whole, it is built not on images or trops related to words but on the very general assotiations related to them, with emphasis on alliterations. Believe me, concrete meaning of words that you are discussing is as blury to Russian ear as to yours.
> ..
> And so forth. Words are used and altered unexpectedly but always phonetically justified. In the whole - dirty and even rotten but furtile and admirable, isn't it?
> Nevertheless, I would certainly welcome a detailed research on every single word here.


Согласна, художественный текст на языке, которым ты владеешь в совершенстве, не нуждается в pазъяснениях лингвиста, он даже, в моих глазах, теряет свою нетронутость из-за такого грубого разложения цельного тела на кости и мясо. Но, если человек открывает для себя другой язык через поэтические образы, при этом понимает не все слова и желает об этом побеседовать, то мне приятно поделиться моим пониманием слов, особенно если для этого мне приходится напрячь извилины и залезть в этимологический словарь.


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## LilianaB

It is not always true: sometimes poets use words in a totally different way, just because they feel them this way, or because they want to experiment with language. Many native speakers of any language do not understand poetry at all, or at leat many claim that.


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## NiNulla

LilianaB said:


> It is not always true: sometimes poets use words in a totally different way, just because they feel them this way, or because they want to experiment with language. Many native speakers of any language do not understand poetry at all, or at leat many claim that.


Absolutely! I personally hate poetry and feel sorry for people who need to translate a poem into another language - impossible task for me!


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## LilianaB

Poetry is usally translated by poets only, for publication purposes. This particular poem is very hard to translate, I think. Sometimes people just want to enjoy poems in the original and then they translate them for themselves.


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## search3

I just wanted to state that, in this context, the word does not require an exact interpretation. You cannot hear the word переуважена in live speach, it's the author's word aimed at getting together certain assosiations: уважать, уважить, (унавозить), вага (вес), важный. Here, instead of figuring out possible ethimology, we have to consider the whole assotiative nest. In this poem, M. suggests several points like this.


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