# his company is interesting [possessive adjective or a possessive pronoun?]



## Roymalika

_Maria and Tom are friends. Maria enjoys Tom's company because *his* company is interesting. _

Source: self-made

Can you tell me whether "his" is a possessive adjective or a possessive pronoun? I think it is a possessive pronoun, because it replaces *Tom's, *which is a possessive noun.


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## lingobingo

It would be a very strange thing to add. We all know what *enjoying someone’s company* means – enjoying being with them, spending time with them. No one would normally add “because his company is interesting”. That would be a big giveaway that you were not a native speaker.

However, in general, that use of the possessive is fine.

Maria enjoys Tom’s company = She enjoys his company ​


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## The Newt

Roymalika said:


> _Maria and Tom are friends. Maria enjoys Tom's company because *his* company is interesting. _
> 
> Source: self-made
> 
> Can you tell me whether "his" is a possessive adjective or a possessive pronoun? I think it is a possessive pronoun, because it replaces *Tom's, *which is a possessive noun.


It's a possessive adjective, and so is "Tom's."

*Tom's* [possessive adjective] company is not as interesting as *mine* [possessive pronoun].


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## Roymalika

The Newt said:


> It's a possessive adjective


Can you please explain how it is a possessive adjective? The explanation that I gave above clearly tells us that it is a possessive pronoun because it replaces the possessive noun.


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## JulianStuart

Roymalika said:


> Can you please explain how it is a possessive adjective? The explanation that I gave above clearly tells us that it is a possessive pronoun because it replaces the possessive noun.


The Newt provided the explanation: your incorrect assessment that "Tom's" _before the word company_ is a "possessive _noun_" is what is misleading you.


The Newt said:


> *Tom's* [possessive *adjective*] company is not as interesting as *mine* [possessive pronoun].


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## Man_from_India

Roymalika said:


> _Maria and Tom are friends. Maria enjoys Tom's company because *his* company is interesting. _
> 
> Source: self-made
> 
> Can you tell me whether "his" is a possessive adjective or a possessive pronoun? I think it is a possessive pronoun, because it replaces *Tom's, *which is a possessive noun.


You are right that "his" is a pronoun. But the reason you mentioned is actually not the reason for assessing it a pronoun. Yes it is true that "his" replaces "Tom's" but it proves nothing. Why?


> Today [India] is taking on Pakistan, and [the men in blue] is looking confident.


Now here the noun India is being replaced by "the men in blue", so can we call it a pronoun? No we can not. So the reason you gave thete doesn't hold.


> Maria and Tom are friends. Maria enjoys [Tom's] company because [his] company is interesting.


Here the determiner position is being filled by the genitive form of a noun Tom - _Tom's company_. Why "Tom" is not an adjective? Because like a noun or pronoun an adjective can't have a genitive case.
In _his company,_ "his" fills the determiner position. "his" is nothing but a pronoun. Why is it not an adjective? The same reason: an adjective can't have a genitive case.



JulianStuart said:


> The Newt provided the explanation: your incorrect assessment that "Tom's" _before the word company_ is a "possessive _noun_" is what is misleading you.
> 
> 
> The Newt said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tom's* [possessive adjective] company is not as interesting as *mine* [possessive pronoun].
Click to expand...

JulianStuart, this is called assertion and not an explanation.


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## lingobingo

*His* takes the same form both as a possessive pronoun and as a possessive determiner. It’s the only example to which this applies.

*His* is a possessive pronoun when you use it as one, as in:

Which/Whose picture do you like best – *his*, *hers*, *yours* or *mine*?​Maria is a friend of *his*.​​But it’s a possessive determiner when used attributively to describe something or someone.

Maria likes Tom. She enjoys *his* company.​Maria is one of *his* friends.​


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## Man_from_India

lingobingo said:


> *His* takes the same form both as a possessive pronoun and as a possessive determiner. It’s the only example to which this applies.
> 
> *His* is a possessive pronoun when you use it as one, as in:
> 
> Which/Whose picture do you like best – *his*, *hers*, *yours* or *mine*?​Maria is a friend of *his*.​​But it’s a possessive determiner when used attributively to describe something or someone.
> 
> Maria likes Tom. She enjoys *his* company.​Maria is one of *his* friends.​


In the grammar I follow it uses "dependent use of pronoun" and "independent use of pronoun" to distinguish between the two you mentioned.

In this grammar, pronoun is a catagory. And determiner is a function which even a genitive form of pronoun can perform. Example: 


> Tom enjoys her company.


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## JulianStuart

Man_from_India said:


> In the grammar I follow


There is more than one nomenclature system, and posts in threads like these often go right past each other when different people use different terms based on different nomenclature/books/links etc


Man_from_India said:


> JulianStuart, this is called assertion and not an explanation.


To address your assertion   The bolding in the quoted text from TheNewt illustrates the different _function_ of "his" or "Tom's" whether it's in front of/modifying (like an _adjective_) a noun, or on its own, when even the _form_ is the same.


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## Roymalika

JulianStuart said:


> The bolding in the quoted text from TheNewt illustrates the different _function_ of "his" or "Tom's" whether it's in front of/modifying (like an _adjective_) a noun, or on its own, when even the _form_ is the same.


Can you please explain how the function of "his" and "Tom's" is different but the form is the same?


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## JulianStuart

I can't provide a better explanation than the one in post #3.
An illustration of the concept of "same form, different function" may help.
Tom's car is red.
Tom's coming home today.
My car is blue, while Tom's is red.
Same form different functions.


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## Roymalika

JulianStuart said:


> My car is blue, while Tom's is red.


In this example, you mean to say that "my" and 'Tom's" have the same form, but different function?


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## JulianStuart

Roymalika said:


> In this example, you mean to say that "my" and 'Tom's" have the same form, bit different function?


My and Tom's don't even look vaguely similar, so they can't have the same form (=spelling).


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## Roymalika

JulianStuart said:


> My and Tom's don't even look vaguely similar, so they can't have the same form (=spelling).


Ok. I think you were trying to say that 

Tom's car is red.
Tom's coming home today.
My car is blue, while Tom's is red 

in these examples, "Tom's" has the same form, but different function, right?


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## JulianStuart

Roymalika said:


> Ok. I think you were trying to say that
> 
> Tom's car is red.
> Tom's coming home today.
> My car is blue, while Tom's is red
> 
> in these examples, "Tom's" has the same form, but different function, right?


You got it


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## Roymalika

JulianStuart said:


> You got it.


But I've some confusion here. In the first and third example, it seems to me that "Tom's" has the same function: both shows possession.


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## JulianStuart

Yes - a possessive (pro)noun (functioning as the subject in "Tom's is red") and possessive adjective, (modifying car in "Tom's car is red").  If your grammar "system" maintains that Tom's is still an adjective but the word "car" has been elided, you have a good illustration of the perils of using one versus another grammar nomenclature.


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## Man_from_India

JulianStuart said:


> There is more than one nomenclature system, and posts in threads like these often go right past each other when different people use different terms based on different nomenclature/books/links etc.


And that is why I clearly mentioned "the grammar I follow". But anyone who went past the traditional grammar and getting their hands dirty in modern grammar will incline to use terminologies in this way. They might still have differences in their terminologies in some cases but at least they have a pretty clear view as to the differences between determiner (they prefer "determinatives") and pronouns and adjectives. And the distinction between form and function. 


JulianStuart said:


> To address your assertion   The bolding in the quoted text from TheNewt illustrates the different _function_ of "his" or "Tom's" whether it's in front of/modifying (like an _adjective_) a noun, or on its own, when even the _form_ is the same.


In view of the distinction between form and function, it is clear that TheNewt has not illustrated the function. He did showed the category of the two words. 
And if a word comes before a noun or modify it, doesn't guarantee that it is an adjective. Probably that is why people don't call "ice" in "ice cream" an adjective.
And is it really an explanation of why it is an adjective if you just write down it is an adjective under bracket when it occurs before noun?


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## The Newt

You can use whatever terminology you like, but the fact remains:

*Tom's* company is not as interesting as *mine*. 
*My* company is not as interesting as *Tom's*. 

"Tom's" has the same form in either position, but "my" and "mine" do not. We know, therefore, that "Tom's" in the first sentence is not performing the same function as it is in the second sentence, because we are simply switching the words around and observing that the form and the function change depending on the position in the sentence. "Mine" is normally called a possessive pronoun, and "my" a possessive adjective.


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## Man_from_India

The Newt said:


> *Tom's* company is not as interesting as *mine*.
> *My* company is not as interesting as *Tom's*.
> 
> "Tom's" has the same form in either position, but "my" and "mine" do not. We know, therefore, that "Tom's" in the first sentence is not performing the same function as it is in the second sentence, because we are simply switching the words around and observing that the form and the function change depending on the position in the sentence.


Are you implying that if the form is the same they have same function and if the form is different they have different function?


> Tom's a baseball fan.


This sentence has rhe same form "Tom's" but it doesn't have the same function as the one in your answer. You can't substitute any case of the pronoun there. 

Further one can argue with the following two sentences:



> 1. He bought a cake.





> 2. His son liked the cake he bought.


"buy" is a transitive verb in the first sentence, but can it be called intransitive in the second?

If a verb can't be treated like that then why a noun can be treated like that?


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## Man_from_India

I long back in elementary school studied grammar. And that was traditional grammar. I can hardly remember anything now. But I was pretty certain "my" and "mine" were both categorised as a possessive pronoun there.
I normally don't go to grammarly.com website for grammar reference, but I think it is popular because of its automatic grammar and spelling checker. (for grammar reference I normally don't visit any websites except a very few, though)
But in that website I found that they are taking "my" and "mine" both as possessive pronoun.
Here is the link to the website.

Cases of Pronouns: Rules and Examples


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## JulianStuart

The WRF dictionary Random House calls "my" a possessive case of the pronoun, like your website, but clarifies that it is used as an adjective.


> my /maɪ/USA pronunciation  pron.
> 
> a *form* of the _possessive case of the pronoun_ I,* used as an adjective before a noun:*My soup is cold.


The nomenclature used by WRF @ Collins Concise English Dictionary simply avoids that discussion by calling it a determiner, not a pronoun or an adjective 


> *my*/maɪ/determiner
> 
> of, belonging to, or associated with the speaker or writer (me): my own ideas,  do you mind my smoking?
> used in various forms of address: my lord,  my dear boy


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## Roymalika

Man_from_India said:


> an adjective can't have a genitive case.


Can you explain why an adjective can't have a genitive case?

And, in "Tom's company" and "his company", "Tom's" and "his" are being used like adjectives. Why can't we call them adjectives?


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## Edinburgher

Roymalika said:


> Can you explain why an adjective can't have a genitive case?


Because English adjectives are not inflected.  They have no gender, no number, and no case.
That doesn't mean a possessive can't be used as as adjective.


Roymalika said:


> And, in "Tom's company" and "his company", "Tom's" and "his" are being used like adjectives. Why can't we call them adjectives?


We can, and we do. See #3.


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> We can, and we do. See #3.





The Newt said:


> It's a possessive adjective, and so is "Tom's."
> 
> *Tom's* [possessive adjective] company is not as interesting as *mine* [possessive pronoun].


But this website calls things like "Tom's" possessive nouns.
Possessive Nouns | What Are Possessive Nouns?


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## Edinburgher

See Julian's remarks about nomenclature.  There is no single standard label to attach to them.


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> See Julian's remarks about nomenclature.  There is no single standard label to attach to them.


Right, but as per the nomenclature the above website uses for "Tom's" (a possessive pronoun), can't my reasoning in the OP work? I mean: can't we call "his" a possessive pronoun in the OP sentence?


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## Edinburgher

Well, you could, but that reflects the flaw with that particular nomenclature, because, as has been explained, you would expect something called a possessive pronoun to actually act in the role of a pronoun, and not that of an article.

Q1: Whose bicycle is this?
A1: It's *mine*.

Q2: What is this heap of junk?
A2: I'll thank you not to refer to *my* bicycle as a heap of junk!

There is a fundamental difference here between "mine" in A1 and "my" in A2.  "Mine" is a pronoun (because it represents (stands for (pro=for)) the noun "bicycle").  It also happens to be possessive (it indicates that the bicycle belongs to me), so it's a possessive pronoun.  "My" is possessive, but acts as an article/determiner/adjective to the separate noun "bicycle".  Since the real noun is present, it does not need to be represented by a pronoun.

In these examples, it is easy to tell the difference between the pronoun and the adjective because the forms are different.
But if the bicycle belongs to him instead of me, then the same word "his" would be used in both A1 and A2.

_This is his company._  Not pronoun.
_This company is his._  Pronoun.


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## lingobingo

Roymalika said:


> Right, but as per the nomenclature the above website uses for "Tom's" (a possessive pronoun), can't my reasoning in the OP work? I mean: can't we call "his" a possessive pronoun in the OP sentence?


No, you can’t. See #7, pointing out that *his* is an exception, which may be what’s confusing you?

Possessive pronouns: mine, yours, his, hers, ours, theirs.
Possessive determiners: my, your, his, her, our, their.

If the *his* in your sentence were a pronoun, you could use one of the above pronouns in an equivalent construction, where the word did not refer to a single male. But you can’t!

_Maria enjoys Tom's company because *his* company is interesting. _​_Tom enjoys Maria’s company because* hers *company is interesting. _​


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## Roymalika

Thanks Edinburgher / Lingobingo

Can I ask a question about the form and the function?

Is it correct to say that "his" in the OP example is a possessive pronoun in terms of the form and possessive adjective/determiner in terms of the function?


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## lingobingo

No. The function is not the same. A pronoun can be the subject or object of a verb. It represents a “thing” in its own right. A determiner can’t. Its function is to modify a “thing”.


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## Roymalika

lingobingo said:


> No. The function is not the same. A pronoun can be the subject or object of a verb. It represents a “thing” in its own right. A determiner can’t. Its function is to modify a “thing”.


I think you've misunderstood. That's not what I wanted to ask.
I meant to say whether "his" can be called a possessive pronoun in terms of the category/naming (as it belongs to "he", which is a pronoun), and a possessive adjective in terms of the function (as it is used like an adjective)?


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## lingobingo

I really don’t feel I can explain any more clearly. It is not considered a pronoun in that use. Pronouns can’t modify nouns. They can only stand in for them. That’s what the prefix *pro-* indicates in the word *pronoun* (“acting as a substitute or deputy for”).


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## Man_from_India

Roymalika said:


> Can you explain why an adjective can't have a genitive case?


Because that is how adjectives are. I don't know anything more, neither do I know if there is anything more to know. 


Roymalika said:


> And, in "Tom's company" and "his company", "Tom's" and "his" are being used like adjectives. Why can't we call them adjectives?


No you can not. 
1. A pronoun doesn't inflect for grading like an adjective does. Neither a pronoun takes "more" or "most" for grading.


> Good -> Better
> But no pronoun can be like that.
> Beautiful -> more beautiful
> No pronoun can take "much" or "more" like this.


2. In a noun phrase, an adjective can take an adverb as modifier but a pronoun can not.


> a very good boy..
> Strikingly similar cases.
> Very His company - INCORRECT


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> Well, you could, but that reflects the flaw with that particular nomenclature, because, as has been explained, you would expect something called a possessive pronoun to actually act in the role of a pronoun, and not that of an article.


Can I say that the website's calling them 'possessive nouns' is a mistake?


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## Edinburgher

Roymalika said:


> Can I say that the website's calling them 'possessive nouns' is a mistake?


It's matter of definition (did you look up nomenclature?).


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> It's matter of definition (did you look up nomenclature?).


Thanks, I understand that "his" isn't a pronoun, But I am still having some difficulty digesting it. I'm sorry for asking you again, hope you won't mind.
Let's write the example (a different one).

*I like Tom's watch. His watch is very beautiful.*
(His watch = Tom's watch)
In this example, "his" replaces the (possessive) noun "Tom's", so it actually acts in the role of a pronoun, doesn't it? As we know that a pronoun replaces a noun, and a possessive pronoun replaces a possessive noun.

I _think_ the reason for this analysis being incorrect is that a word can actually acts in the role of a pronoun when it comes at the end (e.g., This watch is *his*. i.e. _Tom's_). As "his" is before a noun (watch) in the above example, and when a word is before a noun, it doesn't acts in the role of a pronoun, instead it acts in the role of a determiner/adjective. So it is a determiner/adjective.


Can you let me know whether I'm thinking right?


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## lingobingo

As clearly pointed in #29, *his* is an exception – in that it’s the only possessive pronoun that does not change form when acting as a determiner (i.e. _describing_ something rather than being an alternative word for it).

Therefore, instead of going round and round in circles about *his*, you might do well to ask yourself the same questions but using *her* (determiner) and *hers* (pronoun) instead.

*I like Thomasina's watch. Hers watch is very beautiful. 
I like Thomasina's watch. Her watch is very beautiful. *


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## Edinburgher

The status of "his", whereby it can, depending on context, either be a pronoun or not {"this watch is *his*" <-> "this is *his* watch"} also extend to normal nouns and proper nouns {"This watch is Tom's" <-> "This is Tom's watch"}. In the first example, "Tom's" is a complete noun phrase, while in the second it only acts to modify or determine "watch". Perhaps, therefore, it might make sense to attach the label "possessive noun" only to the former "Tom's", but not to the latter.


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> The status of "his", whereby it can, depending on context, either be a pronoun or not {"this watch is *his*" <-> "this is *his* watch"} also extend to normal nouns and proper nouns {"This watch is Tom's" <-> "This is Tom's watch"}. In the first example, "Tom's" is a complete noun phrase, while in the second it only acts to modify or determine "watch". Perhaps, therefore, it might make sense to attach the label "possessive noun" only to the former "Tom's", but not to the latter.


Thank you. Do you agree with my thinking in #37?


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## Edinburgher

Yes, I agree with your remark in #37 where you say that the analysis presented there is incorrect.

In that example, "his" replaces "Tom's" in a role where "Tom's" is not a possessive noun, but a possessive adjective (see #3).


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> Yes, I agree with your remark in #37 where you say that the analysis presented there is incorrect.
> 
> In that example, "his" replaces "Tom's" in a role where "Tom's" is not a possessive noun, but a possessive adjective (see #3).


Thanks a lot 

1) This is *Tom's* watch.
2) This watch is *Tom's*.

In these examples the form is the same, i.e. _*Tom's*_, while the function is different, i.e. in 1) it is a possessive adjective, in 2) it is a possessive noun.

3) This is *his* watch 
4) This watch is *his*.

In these examples, the form is the same, i.e. *his*, while the function is different, i.e. in 3) it is a possessive adjective, in 4) it is a possessive pronoun.

Can you please tell me whether that's right?


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## Roymalika

Hi @Edinburgher @JulianStuart @The Newt @lingobingo

I've discussed the matter with a teacher. He told me that "his" in the OP is a pronoun, not an adjective.
He gave some examples to explain his point.
He said:
A knife is a knife. It is a knife in his form. If you use it as fork to eat something, it doesn't become a fork. It just functions as a fork (i.e. plays the role of a fork). It is still a knife.
Similarly, if a word comes before a noun, it just functions as an adjective/determiner. It will be still what is originally is. For example: *school bag*
Here, "school" just functions as an adjective. It is still a noun; it has not become an adjective.
*Up my grade.*
Here, "up" just functions as a verb. It is not a verb; it still is a preposition.
Similarly,
*His company*
Here, "his" just functions as an adjective. It is not an adjective. It is still a pronoun.

So, the word "his" is a pronoun in the OP example. Just because it functions as an adjective there, it doesn't mean that it has become an adjective. It is still a pronoun.

I'm a little confused here. Could you please tell me whether the teacher is right?


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## heypresto

Roymalika said:


> *Up my grade.*
> Here, "up" just functions as a verb. It is not a verb; it still is a preposition.


 Up is an adverb, an adjective, a preposition, a noun, and a verb, both transitive and intransitive.

up - WordReference.com Dictionary of English


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## Edinburgher

Roymalika said:


> *His company*
> Here, "his" just functions as an adjective. It is not an adjective. It is still a pronoun.


Ask your teacher about "her" and "hers".  He will agree that "her" is an adjective and that "hers" is a pronoun.  They are two different words.

Well, "his" and "his" *are also two different words*, they just happen to be spelled and pronounced identically.  But one of them is an adjective and the other is a pronoun. It is wrong to say that it is only one but that it can "function" as the other.

The idea that "up" is only a preposition and can function as other things is ludicrously preposterous.  Your teacher is an idiot if he claims that.


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> Ask your teacher about "her" and "hers".  He will agree that "her" is an adjective and that "hers" is a pronoun.  They are two different words.
> 
> Well, "his" and "his" *are also two different words*, they just happen to be spelled and pronounced identically.  But one of them is an adjective and the other is a pronoun. It is wrong to say that it is only one but that it can "function" as the other.
> 
> The idea that "up" is only a preposition and can function as other things is ludicrously preposterous.  Your teacher is an idiot if he claims that.


Thank you very much. 
So "his" and "his" are two different words: one is an adjective, the other is a pronoun. 
But there's one thing that's puzzling me and that the teacher is claiming:  "his" is called the possessive case of a pronoun "he". (his chair, his pencil, his book etc.)
If it is the possessive case of a pronoun, it is originally a pronoun. How can it become an adjective despite being the possessive case of a pronoun?


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## heypresto

It's an adjective (like my, her, our, your and their) _as well as _a possessive pronoun (like mine, hers, ours, yours and theirs). Two different words, but they happen to have the same spelling.


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## Man_from_India

Edinburgher said:


> Ask your teacher about "her" and "hers".  He will agree that "her" is an adjective and that "hers" is a pronoun.  They are two different words.
> 
> Well, "his" and "his" *are also two different words*, they just happen to be spelled and pronounced identically.  But one of them is an adjective and the other is a pronoun. It is wrong to say that it is only one but that it can "function" as the other.


Completely out of topic, but do you consider "good" and "better" two different word?


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## Edinburgher

Man_from_India said:


> Completely out of topic, but do you consider "good" and "better" two different word?


They are of course related, but they are not the same word.


Roymalika said:


> How can it become an adjective despite being the possessive case of a pronoun?


As has been said before, it's a question of nomenclature.  One way of naming things is to start from the base form of the 8 personal pronouns.

This is the *subjective* case, which corresponds to what some languages call nominative:
*{I, you, he/she/it; we, you, they}*.  Let's call this *group A*.

Notice that the two "you"s here are also different words that are spelled the same, because they have different meanings (one is singular, the other plural).

English has two other cases:

*Objective*, which corresponds to dative and accusative in other languages:
*{me, you, him/her/it; us, you, them}*. Let's call this *group B*.

English makes the distinction between the two by sometimes prefixing "to" for the dative.  Notice that we now have four different "you"s (singular/plural and subjective/objective), and two different "it"s (subjective/objective).

Finally, we have *possessive* case, also called genitive.  But there are *two sub-cases* of this.  One occurs when they are used as determiners or attributive adjectives (before a noun):
*{my, you, his/her/its; our, your, their}*. Let's call this *group C*.

The other sub-case occurs when they are used as objects (after a verb or preposition), and behave like nouns or predicative adjectives:
*{mine, yours, his/hers/its; ours, yours, theirs}*. Let's call this *group D*.

Notice that not only "his" but also "its" appears in both groups C and D.  There are also two versions of "your" and of "yours" (singular and plural in groups C and D).

One way we can name things is just to call everything in all four groups A to D "pronouns".  Then it makes sense to call group A subjective pronouns, group B objective pronouns, and groups C and D possessive pronouns.  But that fails to distinguish between groups C and D.

One useful way to make that distinction possible is to reserve the term "possessive pronouns" for those that actually behave like pronouns, namely those in group D, and to use a different term "possessive adjectives" for group C.


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## Man_from_India

Edinburgher said:


> They are of course related, but they are not the same word.


Ummm different form of same lexeme, maybe? Though I don't know anything about that section of grammar.
But my understanding is that if "play" and "played" are not the different word, why "her" are "hers" are. 


Edinburgher said:


> As has been said before, it's a question of nomenclature.


I understand. But still there are certain things that should be clear cut in the nomenclature one uses.
For example "his" in "his company" is described as "adjective/determiner" in traditional grammar. But in that grammar they differentiate between adjectives and determiners. So what is "his" in "his company"?
Second, in traditional grammar there is no clear cut line drawn between form and function. When you said "his" in "his company" is an adjective I knew you actually meant "modifier" and saying it an adjective to mean a function is wrong because that term is reserved for form.


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## Edinburgher

Man_from_India said:


> But my understanding is that if "play" and "played" are not the different word, why "her" are "hers" are.


"Play" and "played" are different words.  Moreover, there are several different words that are all spelled "play", and the same is true of "played".


Man_from_India said:


> But in that grammar they differentiate between adjectives and determiners. So what is "his" in "his company"?


Probably a determiner.

It depends on how you define what an adjective is.  One definition would say that determiners are also adjectives.  In that case, "his" is both.
But that definition breaks down when you list properties of adjectives, and it turns out that determiners don't share them.


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## SevenDays

Roymalika said:


> Hi @Edinburgher @JulianStuart @The Newt @lingobingo
> 
> I've discussed the matter with a teacher. He told me that "his" in the OP is a pronoun, not an adjective.
> He gave some examples to explain his point.
> He said:
> A knife is a knife. It is a knife in his form. If you use it as fork to eat something, it doesn't become a fork. It just functions as a fork (i.e. plays the role of a fork). It is still a knife.
> Similarly, if a word comes before a noun, it just functions as an adjective/determiner. It will be still what is originally is. For example: *school bag*
> Here, "school" just functions as an adjective. It is still a noun; it has not become an adjective.
> *Up my grade.*
> Here, "up" just functions as a verb. It is not a verb; it still is a preposition.
> Similarly,
> *His company*
> Here, "his" just functions as an adjective. It is not an adjective. It is still a pronoun.
> 
> So, the word "his" is a pronoun in the OP example. Just because it functions as an adjective there, it doesn't mean that it has become an adjective. It is still a pronoun.
> 
> I'm a little confused here. Could you please tell me whether the teacher is right?


What to "call" things is always controversial.

Some make a distinction between a _possessive pronoun_ and a _possessive determiner_:

A _possessive pronoun_ is the head of a noun phrase.
A _possessive determiner_ functions within a noun phrase as a modifier of the noun in the noun phrase.

If you follow that definition, in

_Maria and Tom are friends. Maria enjoys Tom's company because his company is interesting._

"his" is a determiner, a member of the noun phrase "his company" (determiner/modifier + noun). "his" doesn't stand for "Tom's." Rather, "his company" is what stands for "Tom's company." In other words, in terms of anaphora, "Tom's company" is the antecedent of "his company." The relationship is between two _noun phrases; _the first noun phrase (the antecedent) functions as complement of the verb "enjoys," and the second noun phrase functions as subject of the auxiliary "is."

By contrast, in

_Mary and John came to visit. My wife enjoys her company; I enjoy his._

"his" is the head of a one-word noun phrase that functions as the complement of "enjoy."

And because terminology is in the eye of the beholder, some use the term "possessive adjective" for "possessive determiners," and some use the term "independent possessive pronoun" rather than "possessive pronoun." And there are probably other terms too. It's hard to keep track of all the labels that are out there.

(And because people see what they see, some argue that in "I enjoy his" there is ellipsis of "I enjoy his company," so that "his" is a possessive determiner after all.)

Linguistics is a science, but not an exact science.

On the plus side, with so many different points of view, linguists see an opportunity to write yet more grammar books.


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## Edinburgher

SevenDays said:


> On the plus side, with so many different points of view, linguists see an opportunity to write yet more grammar books.


That's a *plus* side?


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> The idea that "up" is only a preposition and can function as other things is ludicrously preposterous. Your teacher is an idiot if he claims that.


Are "up" (preposition), "up" (adverb), "up" (adjective) etc also different words, as you said about "his"?


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## Edinburgher

Yes, they are, although they obviously have related meanings.


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> Yes, they are, although they obviously have related meanings.


Thanks.
Can you please see this example given by the teacher in #43?


> * school bag*
> Here, "school" just functions as an adjective. It is still a noun; it has not become an adjective.


Isn't the example right? If it is right, don't you think that the teacher has a point?


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## Edinburgher

Roymalika said:


> Isn't the example right?


Yes.  This is generally called an "attributive noun".


Roymalika said:


> If it is right, don't you think that the teacher has a point?


No, not with "up".


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## Roymalika

Edinburgher said:


> No, not with "up".


....and also not with "his".

You said "his" and "his" are different words. "Ups" (adjective, verb, preposition etc) are also different words. That's why the teacher is wrong. Is there any other reason that makes the teacher's claim wrong? (I'm referring to #43)


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## Edinburgher

The teacher is wrong to claim that "up" in "Up my grade" is a preposition acting as a verb.
Whether the teacher is wrong to claim that "his" in "his company" is a pronoun and not an adjective/determiner depends, as I have already explained in #49, *on the nomenclature being used*. You don't seem to be grasping that concept, since you keep asking the same question even though it's been answered several times.

There is only one reason why the teacher's claim is wrong, namely that it is not right.   
It is not right because it is based on the bizarre notion that every word has one and only one type, and whenever it is used in a different role, then it is just functioning as another type.  How does he choose which type is the "real" type for "up"?  Who is to say that it isn't a always a verb and whenever it is being used as a preposition it is only functioning as a preposition but is really still a verb?


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## Cagey

The thread is closed. This discussion is becoming repetitive.  

It is not the purpose of the forum to impose a standard terminology on those who participate in discussions. People for themselves which terminology will best suit their purposes. Their purpose may include understanding the approach endorsed by their teachers.

Anyone interested in the question is welcome to read through the thread and decide which explanation and terminology is will be most useful to them. 

Thank you to everyone who participated.

Cagey, 
moderator


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