# Possible Aromanian name?



## Essen

So I have been investigating my family background and found someone named "Papi" (Not Pappy or Poppy or anything. Straight up named Papi.)
My family identify as Macedonians (And our phenotypes are mostly Slavic with slight Native Balkan features) and we mostly come from Kočani and it is said that the Aromanians/Vlachs were concentrated here in Kočani other than Skopje and such. I would like to know if the name Papi is similar to/stems from Latin and/or Aromanian languages. I hope it won't require a lot of etymology knowledge. Thanks!
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## Circunflejo

Papi is dad in colloquial Spanish, if that's any useful for you.


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## Essen

Circunflejo said:


> Papi is dad in colloquial Spanish, if that's any useful for you.


I did a little research and saw that, yes. I have also noticed that the name Papi is also found in Hungary near the Danube River (It's apparently the name of a place and an article says that immigrants would name themselves the name of the place they migrated to so they could distinguish themselves from the native population)

Aromanians migrated from the Danube River (lower basin) so that's the second reason why I suspect an Aromanian ancestry apart from the concentration of Aromanian population in Kočani.


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## Essen

I don't want some extensive research on genetics or anything. I just wanted to know if someone has an idea about the roots of this name like if its Latin/Romance/Slavic.


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## Circunflejo

Essen said:


> I just wanted to know if someone has an idea about the roots of this name like if its Latin/Romance/Slavic.


I would bet for Romance but I'm not an expert so wait for the experts.


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## AndrasBP

Essen said:


> I have also noticed that the name Papi is also found in Hungary near the Danube River


The word "papi" in Hungarian place names (e.g. Hejőpapi) comes from "pap" (=priest), a Slavic loanword.


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## Circunflejo

AndrasBP said:


> The word "papi" in Hungarian place names (e.g. Hejőpapi) comes from "pap" (=priest), a Slavic loanword.


That's interesting. We would need to make some research about onomastics to see where it came from (Romance, Slavic or some other).


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## Circunflejo

It seems that Papi is a colloquial/familiar shortening in Italian for the name that in plain English would be Jacob. Any Italian in the room can confirm it?


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## bearded

Circunflejo said:


> Any Italian in the room...


I know ''Papi'' as
- an alternative to ''papà'' (=daddy) in some It. regions/milieux
- a common Italian surname
- the plural of ''Papa'' (= Pope).
Never heard of it as a shortening of Giacomo/Iacopo (=Jacob), sorry.


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## Olaszinhok

bearded said:


> Iacopo


Isn't Jacopo written like this in Italian? Very rarely have I seen Iacopo so far, at least in contemporary Italian.


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## bearded

Olaszinhok said:


> Isn't Jacopo written like this in Italian? Very rarely have I seen Iacopo so far, at least in contemporary Italian.


You are right: Jacopo is more frequent. However, both spellings exist. Cf. here.


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## Essen

I am baffled by how many regional countries use the same name. I guess Papi will stay as a mystery now! Thank you guys.


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## francisgranada

bearded said:


> - an alternative to ''papà'' (=daddy) in some It. regions/milieux


For example in Bologna: the son of my Bolognese friend calls his father _papi_.



AndrasBP said:


> The word "papi" in Hungarian place names (e.g. Hejőpapi) comes from "pap" (=priest), a Slavic loanword.


I'd like to add that the ending _*-i *_serves for creating adjectives from nouns in Hungarian and it is very frequent in surnames of Hungarian origin. They typically derive from:

a) toponyms (e.g. _Budai _= "from Buda";' _Római _= "from Rome, Roman", etc.)
b) first name (e.g. _Jánosi _= "son of John", _Ferenci _= "son of Francis", etc.)
c) profession (e.g. _Juhászi _= "son of shepherd", _Kovácsi _= "son of smith", etc.)

Thus the Hungarian origin of the surname _Papi _(< pap + i)  is possible both from semantic and phonetic point of view. The Slavic origin doesn't seem probable to me.


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## OBrasilo

For what it's worth, Papi is attested in Italy as a family name, see Italian TV show host Enrico Papi.


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## bearded

OBrasilo said:


> For what it's worth, Papi is attested in Italy as a family name





bearded said:


> a common Italian surname


I'm glad that you agree with me, OBrasilio.


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## sotos

In Greece there are people with the surname Papis and Papistas. By searching romanian dictionaries you find that papi means papacy or something related. Maybe some people were nicknamed (and later named) so when they became Catholics.


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## Apollodorus

sotos said:


> In Greece there are people with the surname Papis and Papistas. By searching romanian dictionaries you find that papi means papacy or something related. Maybe some people were nicknamed (and later named) so when they became Catholics.



That's an interesting point.

According to the Dictionary of American Family Names (2013), as a variant of Papa, Papi is a “Hungarian habitational name for someone from any of various places named with pap ‘priest’.”

But the Greek surname Papis suggests an alternative origin via Greek. If we drop the Greek final “s” we get Papi.

Aromanians do seem to have close Greek connections, especially if the family in question identifies its origins as "Macedonian". Thus we find Aromanian surnames like Papahaji, Papadumitru, Caraianni, etc. 

Apparently, there are even Aromanian diminutives like "Tasu" (probably from Greek Tasso < Anastasios).


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## sotos

Apollodorus said:


> Aromanians do seem to have close Greek connections, especially if the family in question identifies its origins as "Macedonian". Thus we find Aromanian surnames like Papahaji, Papadumitru, Caraianni, etc.
> 
> Apparently, there are even Aromanian diminutives like "Tasu" (probably from Greek Tasso < Anastasios).


Certainly. Names Papahaji, Papadumitru etc are not native Aromanian but Greek or Greco-turkish. "Haji " is the title of one who visited the Holy Lands (Muslim in Arabia or Christian in Palestine.). The prefix "Papa" means that an ancestor was a priest (papas). Tasu is the genitive commonly found in surnames, i.e. the son (or wife) or Tasos.


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## Apollodorus

sotos said:


> Certainly. Names Papahaji, Papadumitru etc are not native Aromanian but Greek or Greco-turkish. "Haji " is the title of one who visited the Holy Lands (Muslim in Arabia or Christian in Palestine.). The prefix "Papa" means that an ancestor was a priest (papas). Tasu is the genitive commonly found in surnames, i.e. the son (or wife) or Tasos.


Correct. But I think the suffix *-u *in Aromanian Tasu is _nominative _used in lieu of Greek nominative *-s* rather than Greek genitive *-ou* though phonetically it is identical with the latter.


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