# master



## Casquilho

Hi fellows,
I don't have any knowledge of Japanese language, but I'm in a special need now, so I'm claiming for your gentle help.
How do I say "master" in Japanese? I mean, master in the sense a valet could call his lord, in the sense an athlete could call his instructor/teacher, in the sense Christian Slater calls Sean Connery in that film, _The Name of the Rose. _You know, I'm searching for something more elastic than _sensei_, which, I think, is only for teachers - of course I may be wrong.

Also, does the order affect Japanese syntax in this case? If I'm adressing my master, shall I call him, [master] [his name]-_san_, or vice-versa?

(Please, give me the translation in Hiragana, or even better, in Romanji; I can't read kanji at all!)


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## alice313

単に、「マスター」という手もあるんですが．．．どうでしょうね～


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## uchi.m

I don't know what you mean by "more elastic". Sensei fits exactly your need.


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## Flaminius

> master in the sense a valet could call his lord, in the sense an athlete  could call his instructor/teacher, in the sense Christian Slater calls  Sean Connery in that film, _The Name of the Rose_


Unfortunately, Japanese does not have a single word to cover all of them.  These cases are different relationships and these relationships are expressed by different words.


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## uchi.m

Casquilho said:


> I mean, master in the sense a valet could call his lord


shujin


Casquilho said:


> in the sense an athlete could call his instructor/teacher


sensei


Casquilho said:


> in the sense Christian Slater calls Sean Connery in that film, _The Name of the Rose._


sensei again





Casquilho said:


> You know, I'm searching for something more elastic than _sensei_, which, I think, is only for teachers - of course I may be wrong.


sensei means master in the sense of a person who instructs/conducts you in some sort of art or craft (dō) or wisdom (gaku)


Casquilho said:


> Also, does the order affect Japanese syntax in this case? If I'm adressing my master, shall I call him, [master] [his name]-_san_, or vice-versa?


just use the honorific term: (Casquilho-)shujin, (Casquilho-)sensei, given that Casquilho is your family name


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## Flaminius

_Shujin_ is a neutral word meaning a master, thus inappropriate to be used by a valet for his mater.  Why a neutral word is not good?  Simply, a valet is in the relationship that the word describes.  He must show respect to his ingroup superior by using a ingroup word.  By the way _shujin_ cannot be used as a suffix.

What word must we use then?  It depends on who the lord is.  Is he a petty samurai? or is he a real lord with 5000 or more of samurais under him?  Is he a _shōgun_?  If the lord is from a different culture, then the wisest thing is to follow the convention of translated literature.


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## uchi.m

Flaminius said:


> _Shujin_ is a neutral word meaning a master, thus inappropriate to be used by a valet for his mater.  Why a neutral word is not good?  Simply, a valet is in the relationship that the word describes.  He must show respect to his ingroup superior by using a ingroup word.  By the way _shujin_ cannot be used as a suffix.


I thought shujin could work because the lord-valet relationship has to do with the pertaining of land to the lord and the dependency of the valet to this piece of land, and thus, to the lord himself.


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## almostfreebird

uchi.m said:


> I thought shujin could work because the lord-valet relationship has to do with the pertaining of land to the lord and the dependency of the valet to this piece of land, and thus, to the lord himself.



If it is a samurai movie,  だんな(dan-na)　or　だんな様(dan-na-sama)　or　ご主人様(go-shujin-sama) could be used.


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## q_006

This may not be elastic, but I've heard "shisho" used, when one refers to his/her master.


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## Flaminius

_Shishō_ was traditionally used to address one's teacher.  Master in sense of liege was never addressed that way.


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