# Intellectually stimulating



## Hello

Hi how would you translate :

"i never use my brain. I never do anything that is intellectually stimulating" ?
Thanks


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## lhb

Je n'utilise jamais mon cerveau (ma cervelle? je ne sais jamais). Je ne fais jamais rien d'intellectuellement stimulant.


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## Amityville

That is very literal, lhb. Is it really what you would say in French ?


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## Benjy

il ya longtemps que je me suis débranché le cerveau


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## lhb

That is very literal but it doesn't look odd to me. That's not a sentence I use every day, but wihtout context, I think it will be ok.


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## Hello

Well basically it was just relating to the routine-ness of daily life. Doing the same things all the time without really having to think or thinking about what your doing!!


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## texasweed

I'd use "la matière grise" rather than cerveau/cervelle.


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## zonbette

Je suis d'accord avec IHB. Il m'arrive de dire que je ne trouve pas quelquechose  stimulant intellectuellement
 (sous entendu, intellectuellement parlant ).


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## geve

Je n'ai jamais l'occasion de faire fonctionner mon cerveau. Je ne fais jamais rien qui mette ma matière grise à contribution.
Je n'ai jamais l'occasion de faire travailler mes cellules grises. Rien de ce que je fais ne sollicite mon cerveau.

less litteral... less faithful too...


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## EmmaPeel

Amityville said:
			
		

> That is very literal, lhb. Is it really what you would say in French ?


yes.
We could also say:
"Je n'utilise jamais ma cervelle. Je ne fais rien qui me stimule intellectuellement."
Actually, people who like being intellectually stimulated would talk like that.


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## Agnès E.

texasweed said:
			
		

> I'd use "la matière grise" rather than cerveau/cervelle.


 
I like this idea! 
*Je n'utilise jamais ma matière grise.*


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## EmmaPeel

Je ne fais rien pour me masturber les neurones! (very 'ME'-geeky-colloquial)


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## Hello

EmmaPeel said:
			
		

> Je ne fais rien pour me masturber les neurones! (very 'ME'-geeky-colloquial)


 
Is this used.. cos it sounds rude to a lil english person like me?!


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## geve

what we can use in colloquial conversations is "masturbation intellectuelle" or "masturbation de cerveau"... basically, to say that someone went into big intellectual argumentation that do not really have any point / interest... for the sake of reasoning 

In a business (colloquial) environment, I like to use the alternative (and more politically correct) expression "jus de cerveau" (= brainjuice)


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## Amityville

It can be a very useful expression, we use it in English too or might say 'self-indulgent' in polite company.
If you suspect you are becoming involved in intellectual activity, don't panic - it is a normal part of growing up and not to be feared.
Jus de cerveau on the other hand (?) sounds gross.


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## geve

Amityville, what expression are you saying you use in English too ?

I'm not sure about the grossness of "jus de cerveau"... of course, the way you put it, it sounds a bit strange... but I think it is NOT related to the preceding expression "masturbation intellectuelle" ! 
As I understand it (but maybe I was wrong all the way...), it rather comes from the idea that you "squeeze" your brain like you would do with a lemon, and you get fresh juice - like you would get lemon juice... 

Actually, I don't use it only in a pejorative way (contrary to "masturbation intellectuelle") : I can say "on vend du pur jus de cerveau" when one is selling thoughts/strategy... with no tangible, visible results... 
The person will then see a pejorative connotation or not, according to what value (s)he grants the person's brain


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## zam

I must say I had a look at Amytiville's post and cannot see either what phrase (s)he is referring to. I'd like to know as well as it's puzzling me and we could well be onto something interesting here. 
Amy, if you're under the impression that *'masturbation intellectuelle'* and *'jus de cerveau'* are on the rude/weird side, it is not the case, they both are as acceptable as they come, neither academic nor colloquial, just standard French phrases. 
As for *'self-indulgent'*, I have no idea how it can relate to either or 'masturbation intellectuelle' or 'brainjuice', it purely means= 'gratification of one own's desires, whims or appetites', unless I've totally misunderstood your post of course !


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## Gil

La paresse intellectuelle est une constante de ma personnalité.


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## Amityville

Intellectual masturbation, geve. Ou dans les contextes plus soutenus, intellectual onanism,
J'admets que ma tournure de phrase laisse à désirer (en fait j'ai eu un intellectualisme nocturne ou je m'en suis rendu compte) J'ai bien compris que le jus du cerveau n'avait rien à voir avec l'activité surmentionnée.Il m'a fait penser à la tête de veau sur assiette - c'est pour ça que j'ai dit 'gross.'
Merci pour tes explications plus détaillées sur l'utilisation, maintenant j'ose m'en servir.


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## xav

Et pour traduire tout ce brainstorming, Louis Armand a inventé une jolie expression : "remue-méninges".  

Je vous la recommande : elle a l'avantage d'être immédiatement compréhensible.


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## zonbette

ouf, voilà une expression qui devrait tous nous mettre d'accord. Je partageais l'impression d'Amityville sur le caractère gross (ier) de certaines tournures proposées mais c'est très personnel.


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## Hello

Yeah im not to sure what self-indulgent has to do with intellectually stimulating either...


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## geve

Je dis oui à "remue-méninges"  , traduction parfaite de "brainstorming", mais attention ! On peut se remuer les méninges sans faire de la masturbation intellectuelle pour autant... si ça aboutit à quelque chose de concret. La masturbation étant par nature "inféconde"...
Bon allez, un petit rappel de définitions ne fait jamais de mal, n'est-ce pas ? 

*masturbation : *


			
				atilf.atilf.fr said:
			
		

> B. _P. métaph._ ou _au fig., péj._
> 1. _Vieilli_. Effort intellectuel ou moral infécond. _Lamuel (...) veut être un prophète religieux et réformateur. _
> _- Il se ruine à cette roulette. - Il s'épuise à cette masturbation de l'âme; il ruine et perd sa mère, ses soeurs et son père_ (VIGNY, _Journal poète_, 1837, p.1077).
> 2. Complaisance à traiter les mêmes thèmes (considérés comme inféconds) dans une discussion, une recherche intellectuelle ou artistique. _Sus à la masturbation antifigurative _[_en peinture_] (_Les Lettres fr._, 25 janv. 1967, p.29, col. 1)


*remue-méninges :*


			
				atilf.atilf.fr said:
			
		

> Fam. Réunion où chacun des participants est invité à exposer des idées, à formuler des propositions qui sont ensuite discutées en commun
> _*Rem.* Ce synon. de l'anglicisme brain-storming reste fam. et est fortement concurrencé par ce dernier dans le milieu des affaires_


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## panzemeyer

I'd say "masturbation intellectuelle" shouldn't be used in any context. It can sound rude, depending on the person you're talking to. 

My 2 cents : 

Je ne fais jamais travailler mon cerveau. Je ne fais rien d'intellectuellement stimulant.


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## Amityville

zam said:
			
		

> ...As for *'self-indulgent'*, I have no idea how it can relate to either or 'masturbation intellectuelle' or 'brainjuice', it purely means= 'gratification of one own's desires, whims or appetites', unless I've totally misunderstood your post of course !


 
From Merriam Webster:



> Main Entry: mas·tur·ba·to·ry
> Function: adjective
> 1 : of, relating to, or involving masturbation <masturbatory fantasies>
> 2 : excessively self-absorbed or self-indulgent <write tedious, masturbatory books... about themselves for people to read... with envy -- D. R. Katz>


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## zam

Amy, it's not 'masturbatory' as you're quoting or 'masturbation' on its own we're on about, it's the whole phrase i.e 'masturbation intellectuelle'. 
You're now isolating the 'masturbation' in 'masturbation intellectuelle' (the two obviously go together here) to justify your use of 'self-indulgent'. On its own 'masturbation' is obviously inadequate here and would not make much sense. As Hello and Geve have also commented, linking willy-nilly 'jus de cerveau', 'masturbation intellectuelle' and 'self-indulgent' w/o any explanation whatsoever does not make much sense either whichever way you look at it, but I must admit, I liked your 'masturbatory books', lol, excellent phrase !
Obviously some people seem to find 'masturbation intellectuelle' offensive or plain rude (I don't  - I never use it, don't particularly like it either) and have said so on here. Judging from the tenor of some of the comments as well, you could be forgiven for thinking that it was a very rude, vile phrase only fit for use by some misguided French pervs ! But really, it is tame tame stuff. Thing is, how do we judge just how 'rude' a phrase such as 'masturbation intellectuelle' really is (a phrase which we could legitimately consider as 'borderline' in the 'Rudeness spectrum')? Through TV maybe (although the boundaries of decent language are becoming increasingly blurred) ? Through the mainstream media ? Yes, that could help, but equally maybe not. Through your family ? Yes, that might help as well. Through our colleagues ? yes, possible, but not certain. And so on and so forth. You quickly end up with a host of disparate sources, backgrounds, etc. and complex and conflicting parameters to untangle first, then analyse and work out. However, that's only half the job ! On top of that, there's the variable 'context' to factor into the findings !      In truth, the real degree of offensiveness of such a phrase is practically impossible to determine with accuracy. I'd say to even ascertain whether such a phrase is offensive at all is a tall order.


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## panzemeyer

zam said:
			
		

> a phrase which we could legitimately consider as '*borderline*'


I think that's exactly what "masturbation intellectuelle" is. In some contexts it won't shock anybody, in others it will. That's why this expression can't be considered as an ordinary one, as some claim. 

For example, you wouldn't expect a member of Parliament to say "masturbation intellectuelle" in a speech. That would be offensive. Because the first meaning of the word masturbation is what it is. Most of the times, people who use it are trying to make people around them laugh, because it's all but a neutral expression. 

So my opinion is that you have to be careful when you decide to use this expression, especially when French isn't your mother tongue. Better play safe and use a more common expression which won't offend anyone in any context.


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## Kelly B

Hors sujet, peut-être, mais tout ça me fait penser au nombrilisme....


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## E-J

panzemeyer said:
			
		

> people who use it are trying to make people around them laugh, because it's all but a neutral expression.


 
it's all but ... = it's almost ... 
it's *anything *but ... = it's not at all ... 

I think your intended meaning was the second one, panzemeyer - am I correct?


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## E-J

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Hors sujet, peut-être, mais tout ça me fait penser au nombrilisme....


 
Omphaloskepsis


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## zam

Panz, you misquoted me, I wrote: 'borderline *in the rudeness spectrum', *(maybe I should have written 'politeness/rudeness spectrum' granted) but you're nitpicking a little here, of course it can be miscontrued, misinterpreted or rather interpreted in different ways, as it obviously contains a sexual word in it (and not any word), but they do say far worse things at l'Assemblée you know LOL ! 
I was talking of the use of the sentence in the context of an ordinary discussion amongst friends, colleagues, etc. which was the gist of my point, not during a speech au Palais-Bourbon ! but what a funny thought though, an MP berating another by saying to him: 'arrêtez dès maintenant votre masturbation intellectuelle et occupez-vous de nos banlieues', now that would be a show and a half !


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## panzemeyer

zam said:
			
		

> I was talking of the use of the sentence in the context of an ordinary discussion amongst friends, colleagues


 So we agree, only in some given contexts will this expression pass "unnoticed". Talking about work relationships, I wouldn't use it in front of my boss for example. It would sound much too familiar and arrogant (especially as my boss is a female). 

That said, I agree it isn't plain rude. Borderline is exactly what I have in mind, that's why I took this word over from you.Hope you don't mind.


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## panzemeyer

E-J said:
			
		

> it's all but ... = it's almost ...
> it's *anything *but ... = it's not at all ...
> 
> I think your intended meaning was the second one, panzemeyer - am I correct?


Yes you are, thx for correcting me.


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## zam

*Quote [...only in some given noticed will this expression pass unnoticed]*

I'm not being pedantic here Panz (can't be arsed to ! this is a very interesting discussion), but I only partially agree with you re the above quote; on the contrary I'd say that the opposite is becoming more and more true and that only in some specific contexts will it be 'noticed' as you wrote or worse, seriously frowned upon as inferred before (church; some workplaces). Nobody can deny that 'masturbation intellectuelle' has not got 'shocking potential' but you've got to agree that its venomous sting's seriously dwindling, and in spite of its previously questionable credentials (maybe when it was first coined) I feel that it is one of these crude-on-the-outside-jolly-on-the-inside phrases which have been accepted as 'standard' in the French language a while ago.
As I pointed out in post #26, it also v. much depends what sort of context you'd benchmark these agst, and it is becoming harder and harder to determine what THE acceptable yardstick is, particularly for that sort of phrases.


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## zam

Panz's quote should read [...only in some given *contexts* will...] of course, sorry !


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## panzemeyer

I'm getting a bit confused here. If you're saying languages aren't an exact science and that the border between a rude expression and an ordinary one is sometimes blurred, I can only agree. Other than that, I'll leave it up to you. No offense.


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## Gil

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Hors sujet, peut-être, mais tout ça me fait penser au nombrilisme....


 Source TLFi:


> Au fig. On n'y compte plus les contemplations de nombril, les plans masturbatoires d'images vides qui se voudraient signifiantes (Le Nouvel Observateur, 5 mai 1969, p.32, col. 3).


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## zam

No need to worry Panz, this is a civilized discussion over a very fine point, I would not take umbrage for so little ! Gil's TLFi quote again shows how this phrase and its offshoots have seeped into standard French, we can all bemoan that fact but it is a reality nonetheless.


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