# Years written in Hebrew



## HaNasBenGanOhr

Shalom,

I have been working on a calendar with the focus of understanding Biblical time better.

I have searched in the Bible to see how dates are written there and then written the following text:

*בשׁנת חמשׁת־אלפים ותשׁע מאות ושׁמנה ועשׂרים לאחר ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ
ובשׁנת אלפים ועשׂרים וארבעה לאחר יהושׁע המשׁיח*​
It should translate to:

*In the 5928th year since God created the heavens and the earth,
and in the 2024th year since the beginning of Yeshua Messiah*​
Any comments on the hebrew?

Thank you.


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## bat777

Hello,
before turning to the sentence you asked about, I must ask you whether you intentially use archaic, biblical Hebrew. 

Now to the sentence:
The words בשנת and לאחר don't go together. you should either write:
בשנת חמשת אלפים...לבריאת העולם
or
חמשת אלפים....שנים לאחר בריאת העולם / לאחר שברא ...
The first option is much better and is, in fact, the common (archaic) way of saying this.
In addition, the numbers should be written this way: 
*חמשׁת־אלפים תשׁע מאות עשׂרים ושׁמונה *
or if you want it to be really biblical you can inverse the order of the whole thing as in shmone ve'esrim etc. 
Concerning the second part, I'm not sure exactly who is Yeshua Messiah. If you mean Yehoshua Ben Nun, then why is he Messiah? And if you mean Jesus (has the year 2024 arrived so fast?...), then you should probably write ישו or ישוע (which is more archaic).
Concerning the structure of the sentence, I would write: 
*ובשׁנת אלפים ועשׂרים וארבע ליהושׁע המשׁיח*

I hope I helped,
gooday


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## Nunty

Note from a Hebrew-speaking Christian: ישוע is not archaic. That is the translation we use today. ישו is how Hebrew speakers who are not Christians usually refer to Jesus. 

In any case, bat7 is correct that if you mean Jesus, it is not יהושע.


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## amikama

HaNasBenGanOhr, I guess that you're working on _fictional_ calendar/story/text and only want to know how dates work in the Hebrew Calendar. If it is the case (and please correct me if it's not the case), I agree with bat7 and your text should be:
*בשׁנת חמשׁת־אלפים ותשׁע מאות ועשׂרים ושׁמונה לבריאת העולם*
*ובשׁנת אלפיים ועשׂרים וארבעה ליהושׁע המשׁיח*


Anyway, year 5928 Anno Mundi (in Hebrew numerals: ה'תתקכ"ד) is 2168 Anno Domini, 
and year 2024 Anno Domini is 5784 Anno Mundi (ה'תשפ"ד)


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## ilbisaac

Indeed, יהושע is a fairly common Hebrew name amongst Jews. It translates to "Joshua," not "Jesus."


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## HaNasBenGanOhr

First I want to thank you so much for all of your answers !  They are a great help for me. 



bat777 said:


> before turning to the sentence you asked about, I must ask you whether you intentially use archaic, biblical Hebrew.



My intention is to learn biblical Hebrew so that I can understand as much as possible of what was originally provided for future generations through the Holy Scriptures.  If this is what you mean by archaic, then yes.  If the biblical Hebrew at first seems not to be as distinct as modern Hebrew, then my guess is that it might have been meant to be so – words chosen that the thoughtful reader can apply beneficently to many different areas of life.

Even though "לבריאת העולם" is shorter, I do like the wording of "ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ" as it is written in the beginning of the Bible.  So if I could make it grammatically correct, I would prefer the longer alternative..

Would the following be correct?:
*בשׁנת חמשׁת־אלפים ותשׁע מאות ועשׂרים ושׁמנה לשׁברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ
ובשׁנת אלפים ועשׂרים וארבעה לאחר יהושׁע המשׁיח*​


bat777 said:


> Concerning the second part, I'm not sure exactly who is Yeshua Messiah. If you mean Yehoshua Ben Nun, then why is he Messiah? And if you mean Jesus (has the year 2024 arrived so fast?...), then you should probably write ישו or ישוע (which is more archaic).



I do mean "Jesus".  You probably think it's evident, but why must the name of Jesus be spelt ישוע and not יהושׁע?  If it is customary, it would be interesting to know from were the costom originates.  I don't know so much about modern Hebrew or the practises of Jews today..



amikama said:


> HaNasBenGanOhr, I guess that you're working on _fictional_ calendar/story/text and only want to know how dates work in the Hebrew Calendar. If it is the case (and please correct me if it's not the case)..
> 
> Anyway, year 5928 Anno Mundi (in Hebrew numerals: ה'תתקכ"ד) is 2168 Anno Domini,
> and year 2024 Anno Domini is 5784 Anno Mundi (ה'תשפ"ד)



The calendar I am working on is not intended to be fictional.  It is according to my (and my father's) best knowledge of history, though it is, at time being, a calendar in progress (5928 could be +/- several years).  The years 5928 and 2024 begin, if our calculations are correct, the upcoming biblical year [beginning fall of the Gregorian year 2007].

Shalom


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## Nunty

HaNasBenGanOhr said:


> I do mean "Jesus".  You probably think it's evident, but why must the name of Jesus be spelt ישוע and not יהושׁע?  If it is customary, it would be interesting to know from were the costom originates.  I don't know so much about modern Hebrew or the practises of Jews today..



Because Jesus and Joshua are two different names.
Jesus = ישוע
Joshua = יהושע

It's not a question of custom, but of two different things. The names have the same root, but are distinct. In English, John and Jonathan might be like that.


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## HaNasBenGanOhr

After reading through your replies again and thought about it some more, the result is this (changes marked with red text):

*בשׁנת חמשׁת־אלפים ותשׁע מאות ועשׂרים ושׁמנה לשׁברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ
ובשׁנת אלפים ועשׂרים וארבעה לישוע המשׁיח*
​
I thank you again for helping me with the Hebrew grammar,
Hopefully I have understood your comments so that the text is now correct..


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## amikama

Wait, *לשברא* is wrong. I would write *אחרי ברוא* instead.

Also, if you want to follow the rules of spelling without _nikkud_, it should be *שמונה* (instead of *שמנה*) and *אלוהים* (instead of *אלהים*).

The rest of the text is OK


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## amikama

HaNasBenGanOhr said:


> It is according to my (and my father's) best knowledge of history, though it is, at time being, a calendar in progress (5928 could be +/- several years). The years 5928 and 2024 begin, if our calculations are correct, the upcoming biblical year [beginning fall of the Gregorian year 2007].


 How did you calculate it?

The Hebrew year beginning at fall of Gregorian 2007 is 5768 (ה'תשס"ח), not 5928. 
The Hebrew year 5928 (ה'תתקכ"ח) will begin at fall of Gregorian 2147, not 2024.
Gregorian 2024 corresponds to Hebrew 5784 (ה'תשפ"ד). (Just add 3760 to the Gregorian year to get the corresponding Hebrew year.)


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## PowerOfChoice

amikama said:


> How did you calculate it?
> 
> The Hebrew year beginning at fall of Gregorian 2007 is 5768 (ה'תשס"ח), not 5928.
> The Hebrew year 5928 (ה'תתקכ"ח) will begin at fall of Gregorian 2147, not 2024.
> Gregorian 2024 corresponds to Hebrew 5784 (ה'תשפ"ד). (Just add 3760 to the Gregorian year to get the corresponding Hebrew year.)


 




Forgive me for entering into this dialogue  but I believe the answer to the stated question re the how of calculation has already been given by the originator of this thread.  



*A little about the beginnings of current calendars:*

He, the originator of this calendar, is by no means giving reference to the standard Hebrew calendar. Not any more than he is giving reference to the Roman Catholic calendar, which calendar is more familiar when referred to in terms of Pope Gregory, i.e. *the Gregorian calendar*, which _*begins its first year upon the basis of the beginning of the reign of Caesar Tiberius (June 26, 1 B.C.)*_ who co-reigned with Caesar Augustus for ten years before the latter died on August 19, 10 A.D. (Augustus did not die in August of 14 A.D. as commonly presumed by most current authorities.) 

*Yeshua was born, i.e. conceived, Tishri 1 (Sept or Oct,) 16 B.C.* according to an in depth study of all the exact dates provided by each of the four Gospel writers, by Josephus, by Suetonius, and by Tacitus. 

Hebrew Bible scholars and chronologists are well aware that the basis for the Hebrew calendar is not correctly based upon the Genesis creation account, but, although better dates are available, I am not aware that anyone thus far has been able to exactly bridge all the chronological difficulties between king Solomon and Nebuchadnezzar's regnal years. *A best estimate for the current year as based upon Genesis 1:1 may thus be given in terms such as provided by the originator of this thread above*.


*Significance? *
Well, it seems we are given a choice as to which King, Caesar, Pope, or other authority we may claim for ourselves upon the documents and contracts we create from day to day. For isn’t it true that throughout history each and every sovereign king has been using his own reckoning of time, and the years have accordingly been numbered in terms of the reign of the current king. Also, if you think about it, isn’t it true that the Western World, including any number of States and Nations, has been subject to Rome and/or the Roman Catholic Church, albeit in a rather stealthful manner, ever since Rome took over after the Grecian Empire? 



I wish I was allowed to provide a more specific reference to more particulars re the above, but so far I have not figured out how to do so  without trespassing upon the declared rules for this wonderful forum. Perhaps someone can help me with that dilemma?

I believe a more in depth study of these matters of chronology may belong to another forum, or am I in error on that point?

Hoping this very brief expansion upon what has already been provided above helps someone.  

Shalom


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## Gilmesh

Nun-Translator said:


> Because Jesus and Joshua are two different names.
> Jesus = ישוע
> Joshua = יהושע
> 
> It's not a question of custom, but of two different things. The names have the same root, but are distinct. In English, John and Jonathan might be like that.


 
Greetings!

I have read your comment, and I must insist, you are wrong. I am a native hebrew speaker, and the name ישוע comes from the name יהושוע, exactly like יהויכין might be יויכין, יכניה or even כניהו.
Some proofs - 
Joshua ben-nun (יהושוע בן-נון) was called once, in the book of Nehamia (8:17) - ישוע - 
*יז* וַיַּעֲשׂוּ כָל-הַקָּהָל הַשָּׁבִים מִן-הַשְּׁבִי סֻכּוֹת, וַיֵּשְׁבוּ בַסֻּכּוֹת--כִּי לֹא-עָשׂוּ מִימֵי *יֵשׁוּעַ בִּן-נוּן* כֵּן בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, עַד הַיּוֹם הַהוּא;

and here's another phrase from the book of Joshua which proves that he is the one being talked here: 
*א* וַיְהִי, אַחֲרֵי מוֹת מֹשֶׁה--עֶבֶד יְהוָה; וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-*יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בִּן-נוּן*, מְשָׁרֵת מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר. 

P.S.
Jesus was meant to be read as : Iesus -> Ieshu (in german you don't pronounce the J'), and "Yeshu" - ישו, is the name that we (the jewish people), call everyone whom his name have brought shame on us or brought murder and killings upon us. ישו actually in hebrew is an acronym for *י*ימח* ש*מו *ו*זכרו, or in english - may his remembrance shall be cursed )or something like that, I am not sure). Hebrew speakers have started calling him this way only after the blood libels that were spread all over the world about the jews, and, naturally, the jews have blames jesus for the great suffering.

Now that we're finished with this subject...

Jonathan and John are not similar and are not even close (in the original name at least). Originally, John is Johannes (which is originally from german, meaning that it's supposed to be read like : Ioannes) or in hebrew - יוחנן (which means - God is gracious). John is just the short term the english and the Germans put to Ioannes (see Italian - Giovanni).
Jonathan, on the contrary, is the original name (which means - whom the lord gave - יהונתן) both in hebrew and in english.

Well, I hope I helped you understand a little bit about the names .

Gil.


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## PowerOfChoice

Gilmesh said:


> Greetings!
> 
> ...the name ישוע comes from the name יהושוע...
> 
> Gil.


 

Thank you Gil! I find that really helpful, including also your references and your expansion upon how those names are currently being used! Thanks again!


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## Nunty

Gilmesh said:


> Greetings!
> 
> I have read your comment, and I must insist, you are wrong. I am a native hebrew speaker, and the name ישוע comes from the name יהושוע, exactly like יהויכין might be יויכין, יכניה or even כניהו.
> Some proofs -
> Joshua ben-nun (יהושוע בן-נון) was called once, in the book of Nehamia (8:17) - ישוע -
> *יז* וַיַּעֲשׂוּ כָל-הַקָּהָל הַשָּׁבִים מִן-הַשְּׁבִי סֻכּוֹת, וַיֵּשְׁבוּ בַסֻּכּוֹת--כִּי לֹא-עָשׂוּ מִימֵי *יֵשׁוּעַ בִּן-נוּן* כֵּן בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, עַד הַיּוֹם הַהוּא;
> 
> and here's another phrase from the book of Joshua which proves that he is the one being talked here:
> *א* וַיְהִי, אַחֲרֵי מוֹת מֹשֶׁה--עֶבֶד יְהוָה; וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-*יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בִּן-נוּן*, מְשָׁרֵת מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר.
> 
> P.S.
> Jesus was meant to be read as : Iesus -> Ieshu (in german you don't pronounce the J'), and "Yeshu" - ישו, is the name that we (the jewish people), call everyone whom his name have brought shame on us or brought murder and killings upon us. ישו actually in hebrew is an acronym for *י*ימח* ש*מו *ו*זכרו, or in english - may his remembrance shall be cursed )or something like that, I am not sure). Hebrew speakers have started calling him this way only after the blood libels that were spread all over the world about the jews, and, naturally, the jews have blames jesus for the great suffering.
> 
> Now that we're finished with this subject...
> 
> Jonathan and John are not similar and are not even close (in the original name at least). Originally, John is Johannes (which is originally from german, meaning that it's supposed to be read like : Ioannes) or in hebrew - יוחנן (which means - God is gracious). John is just the short term the english and the Germans put to Ioannes (see Italian - Giovanni).
> Jonathan, on the contrary, is the original name (which means - whom the lord gave - יהונתן) both in hebrew and in english.
> 
> Well, I hope I helped you understand a little bit about the names .
> 
> Gil.



Welcome to the forums, Gil 

I, too, am an Israeli-born, native Hebrew speaker, and I am also a Christian. ישוע and יהושוע have a common root: י'ש'ע', but one does not derive from the other. We have extra-testamental textual proofs that ישוע was once a not uncommon name. For obvious historical reasons, it has follow into disuse among Jews.

The acronym "may his name and memory be wiped out" יש"ו is, indeed, in common use, and that is a very strong reason why we Hebrew-speaking Christians reject that as a way of referring to Jesus, all other reasons aside. This is a linguistic forum, not a polemic one, so I suggest we leave that particular discussion there.

I'm not sure why you revert to the German pronunciation of the letter J in your explanation, however you might find it interesting to note that, at least to the best of my knowledge, European languages take the name Jesus from the Latin Iesus, which itself comes from the Greek Iησουs.


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