# Persian: Vase واسه



## Parel

What means `vase ine` I think `why this way`
But `vase`I cannot find in the dictionary. How do you spell this word in Farsi characters?


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## panjabigator

Parel said:


> What means `vase ine` I think `why this way`
> But `vase`I cannot find in the dictionary. How do you spell this word in Farsi characters?



Hi there:

Could you specify what language "vase ine" is?

Best wishes, 
Panjabigator
(moderator)


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## Parel

It should be Farsi. Somebody asked me to translate: "nefrit, vase ine?"


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## Persepolis

Parel said:


> It should be Farsi. Somebody asked me to translate: "nefrit, vase ine?"



Hi

Vâse means "for". It's same as "barâye"
We write it so in Persian: واسه


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## Parel

Thank you!


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## Faylasoof

Persepolis said:


> Hi
> 
> Vâse means "for". It's same as "barâye"
> We write it so in Persian: واسه


  Hello! 
 Is this from the colloquial language? Or perhaps from one of the dialects?


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## Persepolis

Faylasoof said:


> Hello!
> Is this from the colloquial language? Or perhaps from one of the dialects?



Yes, it's colloquial language. 

vâse man = barâye man (for me) 
vâse in*e* = vâse in *ast*  (It's for this.)
vâse ine ke... = It's because...

For the expression "vâse ine", the only thing I think of is a situation in which you want to use something for a purpose or something is relevant to something else. In this situation you say "vâse ine" to show that the two things are related to each other.

Hope the other Persian natives could help. It's a little complicated. We need a context.


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## panjabigator

Is this related to واسطہ by any chance?

I've heard واسہ quite a bit.


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## turkcurious

No , it has nothing to do with واسطه
واسه means: because.
TC


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## Derakhshan

turkcurious said:


> No , it has nothing to do with واسطه
> واسه means: because.
> TC


According to Steingass, واسه is indeed from واسطه.

It makes more sense than the theory that واسه comes from به سوی , because why would به become وا?


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## PersoLatin

Is Steingass the main go-to reference for all things Persian, Dehkhoda says the same thing, so who's copied who?


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## Derakhshan

I don't know, but I haven't found a better or more comprehensive Persian-English dictionary.



PersoLatin said:


> so who's copied who?


Steingass's dictionary was published in 1891, Dehkhoda's in 1931.


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## PersoLatin

vâsé/واسه means ‘for/برای’ and not ‘because’, واسه اینکه means ‘because’. Check these terms واسه چی what for, واسه من for me, as has been said already.

 واسطه means middle, a link, in between میانجی, I don’t see how it can ever mean ‌’for’.

For واسه Dehkhoda says ‘refer to واسطه’, yet none of the meanings it offers for واسطه have anything to do with ‘for/برای’.

However بواسطه can mean because, but still not ‘for/برای’. For بواسطه to be the source for واسه  we need to explain where ب has gone then explain the semantic mismatch.


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## PersoLatin

I found wasnād/وسناد in McKenzie Pahlavi Dictionary, could this be the source of واسه?
P wasnād [wsn'd I = P] *for, on account of*.





Dehkhoda also lists وسناد but the meaning (بسیار) is not compatible with McKenzie's.


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## Derakhshan

You're not the first to make that connection:



> Av. _vas-_ "to will, desire, wish, long for," _vasəmi_ "I wish," _vasna-_ "will, favor," _ušti-_ "desire, wish, will," _vasô, vasə_ "at one's will;" cf. O.Pers. _vasiy_ "at will, greatly, utterly," _vašna-_ "will, favor;" Mid.Pers. _vasnâd_ "because, on account of." This word is extant in several Modern Iranian dialects: Tabari _vessen_ "to wish, desire," Gilaki _vâssan_ "to wish, desire," _vâsti_ "desire; for, because, on account of;" Kurd. _wistin_ "to desire, wish," Lâri _avessa_ "to desire;" Nâyini _vas_ "to like;" *colloquial Tehrâni vâsé "for;"*



The Dehkhoda definition seems to indicate it was confused with MP _was_ "much".



PersoLatin said:


> vâsé/واسه means ‘for/برای’ and not ‘because’, واسه اینکه means ‘because’.
> 
> ...
> 
> However بواسطه can mean because, but still not ‘for/برای’.



If you'll notice, the words for "because of, on account of" are often the same as "for" in Persian. برای itself comes from MP _rāy_ "on account of, because of, for the sake of, *for*". را continued this way in CP. از بهرِ also means both "for" and "because of, on account of".


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## PersoLatin

Derakhshan said:


> You're not the first to make that connection:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Av. _vas-_ "to will, desire, wish, long for," _vasəmi_ "I wish," _vasna-_ "will, favor," _ušti-_ "desire, wish, will," _vasô, vasə_ "at one's will;" cf. O.Pers. _vasiy_"at will, greatly, utterly," _vašna-_ "will, favor;" Mid.Pers. _vasnâd_ "because, on account of." This word is extant in several Modern Iranian dialects: Tabari _vessen_ "to wish, desire," Gilaki _vâssan_ "to wish, desire," _vâsti_ "desire; for, because, on account of;" Kurd. _wistin_ "to desire, wish," Lâri _avessa_ "to desire;" Nâyini _vas_ "to like;" *colloquial Tehrâni vâsé "for;"*
Click to expand...

Thank you, I didn’t see this in my quick search, but I’m a little confused, do we have our answer? I am sure we have.


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## PersoLatin

Derakhshan said:


> The Dehkhoda definition *seems to indicate* it was confused with MP _was_ "much".


Please check again, Dehkhoda *states* it means بسیار, it also list وستاد & وستاذ and gives بسیار as the source.


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## Derakhshan

PersoLatin said:


> Thank you, I didn’t see this in my quick search, but I’m a little confused, do we have our answer? I am sure we have.


I forgot to include the link: An Etymological Dictionary of Astronomy and Astrophysics - 1



PersoLatin said:


> Please check again, Dehkhoda *states* it means بسیار, it also list وستاد & وستاذ and gives بسیار as the source.


Let me correct myself: New Persian وسنا / وسناد "many, abundant" must be related to بسیار and MP _was_, and by coincidence looks like MP _wasnād _"on account of", which I believe is a loanword from Parthian _wasnāð_ and wasn't commonly used in MP.


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## PersoLatin

Derakhshan said:


> I forgot to include the link: An Etymological Dictionary of Astronomy and Astrophysics - 1


Thanks for the link. 

I am still not sure if you agree that above link settles this argument, even if it is between myself and you alone.


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## Derakhshan

I was just pointing out that others have made that connection before, I'm not really convinced either way until a more authoritative source is presented.


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