# にあたり、際、頃、時、場合



## lammn

I find that there is quite a number of ways to express the meaning "when", "as", or "at the time" in Japanese.
In particular, I wonder what is the difference between あたり, 際, 頃, 時, and 場合, which have more or less similar meanings.

An example sentence is:



> 1a. 21世紀を迎える*にあたり*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。


If I rewrite it as:

1b. 21世紀を迎える*際に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
1c. 21世紀を迎える*頃に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
1d. 21世紀を迎える*時に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
1e. 21世紀を迎える*場合に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。

Are sentences 1b, 1c, 1d and 1e grammatically correct?
If so, what is the _difference_ between 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d and 1e?

Thanks for any help!


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## Yameso

lammn said:


> I find that there is quite a number of ways to express the meaning "when", "as", or "at the time" in Japanese.
> In particular, I wonder what is the difference between あたり, 際, 頃, 時, and 場合, which have more or less similar meanings.
> 
> An example sentence is:
> 
> If I rewrite it as:
> 
> 1b. 21世紀を迎える*際に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
> 1c. 21世紀を迎える*頃に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
> 1d. 21世紀を迎える*時に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
> 1e. 21世紀を迎える*場合に*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題です。
> 
> Are sentences 1b, 1c, 1d and 1e grammatically correct?
> If so, what is the _difference_ between 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d and 1e?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


 
To me, 1b sounds pretty much the same as 1a.

1c sounds a bit weird. I guess 頃に is closer in meaning to "around the time." 

21世紀を迎える*頃には*、日本の国際化は好むと好まざるとにかかわらず避けては通れない命題*になるでしょう*。would be gramatically correct, but convey a different meaning than 1a. This one would imply the turn of the century is not so close, whereas 1a implies it is pretty close.

1d is quite similar to 1a. 1d sounds more casual, though.
1e is incorrect. 場合に corresponds to "if," not "when."  I bet they did not doubt the possibility of the 21st century coming, unless they believed in Nostradamus's prediction...


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## Wishfull

Hi.
I think only 1a is the correct answer, if this is a Japanese language test for advanced leaners.

ni-atari= Now that it is 21st century, or =Because it is 21st Century now,

Other sentence is assumption.
1a is saying about an accomplished fact, that is "it is the 21st Century now."

If the sentence is written in the 20th Century, the latter half sentence should be future tense. But it is written in present tense. So we understand the sentence is written in the 21st Century.

I think only 1a is natural in this case.


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## Ocham

I agree with Wishfull. Only 1a sounds natural in THIS CONTEXT.


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## lammn

Thanks to all of you! 

I started this thread because I don't really understand the meaning of ~に当たり.
Dictionary simply defines it as "on the occasion of ~".

Does it always refer to "now", or can it refer to the future as well?
I find that sometimes it is used to refer to something happened in the past as well:



> イエスはこの十二人を派遣する*にあたり*、次のように命じられた。(『聖書 新共同訳』マタイによる福音書10章5節)


 
So, what is the usage of にあたり?


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## Flaminius

Hello *lammn*,



> Does it always refer to "now", or can it refer to the future as well?
> I find that sometimes it is used to refer to something happened in the past as well:


For the construction _X-ni atari, Y_:
The use of Xにあたり is not limited by when the event X happens but provides a framework in which Y is allowed to happen.  More specifically, Y happens while X is unfolding towards completion.  In other words, Y is reasonably thought to have completed before X.

Jesus gave instructions to the twelve disciples while preparations are made.  Apparently these instructions were given before they set out.  Furthermore, it can be inferred that giving instructions was part of the preparation.  I think the second point was considered when the translators preferred にあたり to 前に.


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## lammn

Flaminius said:


> For the construction _X-ni atari, Y_:
> The use of Xにあたり is not limited by when the event X happens but provides a framework in which Y is allowed to happen.


了解！Thanks! 



Flaminius said:


> Y is reasonably thought to have completed before X.


That works for Matthew 10:5-42.

In other cases, however, I think X and Y happens _at the same time_.
Considering the following example:


> 新年にあたり、あなた様とご家族の皆さまのご多幸、および御社のご発展をお祈り申し上げます。


 
In this sentence, I think it is unlikely to wish people before the new year starts.
No?


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## Flaminius

> In this sentence, I think it is unlikely to wish people before the new year starts.
> No?


Yes!  So, it looks like the most important thing about にあたり is that the first event (the new year) is not completed while the second takes place (wishing all the happiness for you, your family, yudda yudda).


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## lammn

Thanks for your reply! 

I venture to propose that for the construction X-ni atari, Y, whether Y happens before or after X is _determined _by the tense of Y.

In イエスはこの十二人を派遣するにあたり、次のように命じられた, 命じられた is in past tense.
So the act of Y happened before X. Jesus gave them instructions before they set out.

In 新年にあたり、あなた様とご家族の皆さまのご多幸、および御社のご発展をお祈り申し上げます, お祈り申し上げます is in present tense.
So the act of Y happens more or less the same time as X. The speaker wishes people happiness upon the start of the new year.


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