# Ukrainian, Russian: Yedimenko, Єдіменко, Едименко



## mateo19

Hello everyone,

I have a friend friend from Запорожье, Украина.  She speaks Russian but I don't know how names work in Ukraine - I don't want to assume that just because she speaks Russian that her name is also Russian.  *Is Yedimenko a Russian or Ukrainian surname?  And how can it be written in the Cyrillic alphabet?*  Едименко/ова or Єдіменко?  This girl has grown up in the United States but was born in Ukraine and speaks Russian with her parents.  Her name may reflex the masculine form instead of the feminine form.  I really don't know!  Thank you for your help.


----------



## Q-cumber

This is an Ukrainian last name (or, at least, it is of Ukrainian origin). However many Russians bear Ukranian surnames and vice versa. Surnames that end with "-ko" ain't declined (-ова ). "Едименко" represents the Russian spelling and Єдіменко - the Ukranian one.
   I dare say this is a very rare family name.


----------



## mateo19

Thank you for your quick reply, Q-cumber.  How can you know if it is Ukrainian or Russian?  I mean, I believe you, of course, but what information did you use to figure it out?


----------



## Maroseika

As already said, any surname ending on -ko is Ukrainian, but you cannot figure out from this sole fact what language is native for the owner of this name.
Since your friend speaks Russian with her parents and not Ukrainian, we may conclude that they feel themselves more Russians than Ukrainians, and therefore I'd right her surname in Russian: Едименко.
By the way, surnames of this type do not differ in gender in no cases. Former (in the 19th century) they differed in the indirect cases (feminine form being invariable), but now - not.


----------



## mateo19

Excellent, now I understand fully.  Before it wasn't clear to me that "-ko" is a Ukrainian ending.  If I may also ask, my friend's first name is "Juliette" in English.  How do I write that in Russian?  Can that even be a Slavic name?: Юлиєта?


----------



## Maroseika

There is no letter є in Russian, this is Ukrainian letter.
So you may either translitarate this name in Russian literally - Джулиет, or use common Russian transliteration Джульетта (like in Romeo and Juliette), or just use Russian analog - Юлия (though it corresponds not to Juliette, but to Julia)


----------



## marmotte-frangita

I do enjoy your correspondence about Russian and Ukranian last names I have really no add to Marosieka`s professional explanaitons, but I`d like to notice that in fact most unkranians speak fluently Russian, especially those who live in the eastern part of the country. Nevertheless they are still ukranians! I don`t think that the nationality of your friend would be important for you, but linguistically, if you want, they are not always so "russian" as the russians ones. Good luck!


----------



## Etcetera

mateo19 said:


> If I may also ask, my friend's first name is "Juliette" in English.  How do I write that in Russian?


Джульетта, undoubtedly.


----------



## Panda Nocta

-ko surnames are not always of Ukrainian origin, however -enko usually are. There are -ko(but not -enko) ending surnames of Belarusian and Cossack origin.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Maroseika said:


> As already said, any surname ending on -ko is Ukrainian





Panda Nocta said:


> -ko surnames are not always of Ukrainian origin, however -enko usually are. There are -ko(but not -enko) ending surnames of Belarusian and Cossack origin.



I assume you are referring specifically to the East Slavic area, because in Slovenia, -ko surnames are relatively common (Penko, Jerko, Zorko, Jenko, Pečenko, etc.), and they don't have a connection to Ukrainian or any other East Slavic language. This may also be the case in other Slavic countries.


----------



## Panda Nocta

TriglavNationalPark said:


> I assume you are referring specifically to the East Slavic area, because in Slovenia, -ko surnames are relatively common (Penko, Jerko, Zorko, Jenko, Pečenko, etc.), and they don't have a connection to Ukrainian or any other East Slavic language. This may also be the case in other Slavic countries.


Indeed, sometimes it is not easy to track where it comes from. My point is -ko surnames may be of non-Ukrainian original, while -enko surnames are usually associated with the Ukrainian people unless the word root is definitely non-Slavic. Now I've learnt that Pečenko is Slovenian. 

P.S. Jerko does not look the best family name ever to me (just kidding, don't take it serious).


----------



## Maroseika

TriglavNationalPark said:


> I assume you are referring specifically to the East Slavic area,


Sure, I meant only situation in Russia - just because originally this thread was opened at the Russian forum.


----------



## Maroseika

Panda Nocta said:


> -ko surnames are not always of Ukrainian origin, however -enko usually are.


Yes, I agree, -enko is the better criterium, though even it doesn't work properly in all cases. It's better to talk not about Ukrainian, Belorussuin and other surnames, but about surnames models. For example, Lukashenko is evidently Belorussian, but his surname is patterned after the Ukrainian model, that may mean his ancestors originate from Eastern Belorussia..
Here is interesting link: http://tw.org.ua/board/index.php?showtopic=1289&st=20&start=20


----------



## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> By the way, surnames of this type do not differ in gender in no cases. Former (in the 19th century) they differed in the indirect cases (feminine form being invariable), but now - not.


Such last names (*-ко*) in Ukrainian, however, decline both in masculine and feminine gender.


----------



## Natabka

Kolan said:


> Such last names (*-ко*) in Ukrainian, however, decline both in masculine and feminine gender.



Kolan! Finally, the voice of truth amidst the tangle of confused declensions! ;-)))

Last names in -ко do decline in Ukrainian. But! Only the masculine form! And, as far as I'm concerned, both masculine and feminine forms do not decline in Russian so that could be the reason for this confusion. (e.g. The name of the actual Ukrainian president ends in -ко, and I've never heard it declined in Russian news). As for your friend, Mateo, you should probably ask in what way _she_ prefers her name to be written ))

The forms will be:
Н. Єдіменко (m) --- Єдіменко (f)
Р. Єдіменка ------- Єдіменко
Д. Єдіменку/-ові --- Єдіменко
З. Єдіменка -------- Єдіменко
О. Єдіменком ------ Єдіменко
М. Єдіменкові ------ Єдіменко
К.  Єдіменко! ------- Єдіменко!

NB. *Non* declined nouns in Ukrainian:
- some words of foreign origin
- *female last names* of Ukrainian and foreign origin that end in _consonant_; in -_*енко*_; -_ово_; -_их_.
- abbreviations.

Saludos!


----------



## Kolan

Natabka said:


> Kolan! Finally, the voice of truth amidst the tangle of confused declensions! ;-)))
> 
> Last names in -ко do decline in Ukrainian. But! Only the masculine form!


Sorry for the misleading information, I feel that I am already forgetting my Ukrainian. Just because some feminine Russian nouns exceptionally are masculine in Ukrainian.


----------



## heleona

Q-cumber said:


> "Едименко" represents the Russian spelling and Єдіменко - the Ukranian one.
> I dare say this is a very rare family name.



I think in Ukrainian it should be translated as 'Єдименко' rather than 'Єдіменко'. When 'translating' surnames, the sound 'i' is normally preserved only for names of non-ukrainian origin; and in this case Єдименко is a typical Ukrainian surname.


----------



## Maroseika

heleona said:


> I think in Ukrainian it should be translated as 'Єдименко' rather than 'Єдіменко'. When 'translating' surnames, the sound 'i' is normally preserved only for names of non-ukrainian origin; and in this case Єдименко is a typical Ukrainian surname.


But what sound you think should be there - [ы] or [и]?


----------



## heleona

Maroseika said:


> But what sound you think should be there - [ы] or [и]?



In Ukrainian 'Єдименко' will be pronounced with [ы]. 

'Єдiменко' soundі very unnatural in Ukrainian. In fact, you can use such a surname, but it won't be Ukrainian anymore  

The sound 'i' is used when 'translating' surnames of foreign origin, e.g. Russian "Белкин" becomes "Бєлкiн", "Диккенс" becomes "Діккенс", etc. Well, actually, it depends, you need to take into account the etymology of the word. For example, there is a (already Ukrainian) surname 'Єфiменко', where you have 'i', but originally it came from russian 'Єфiм'.


----------



## mateo19

Thank you very much to everyone for their help with this post.
Today I sent Juliette a message to ask her how she writes her name. . . But there is never any replacement for this forum.  She speaks Russian and has spoken it her entire life, but since she was only born in Ukraine and actually grew up here, I think that her Russian is much more oral than written.  We shall see.  In any event, she never could have given me all the detailed information that all of you did.  I appreciate your help and thank you sincerely for it.  Have a great day!!!


----------



## mateo19

My friend Juliette has confirmed to me that her name is written thus: Джульетта Едименко


----------



## heleona

It's Russian spelling, nor Ukrainian, I assume?


----------



## mateo19

Sorry, Heleona, I never replied to your post.  Yes, it is the Russian spelling.
Take care!


----------



## Alex-M

Hallo, if You are interesting, ukrainian surnames with "ко"/"енко" at the end, means "The son of" for example surname Lukashenko mentioned here could be understand as "The son of Lukash (ukrainian name) so his distand forefathers could be from northern Ukrain; later this parts determined person according to the kind of his/her craft (there are variants: some surnames are used with this parts and some without: "Коваль-Коваленко - blacksmith). At the very begining this modern surnames weren't surnames in modern meaning, but were so coled "surnamical names" and  were connected only to one person.They became surnames when connected to other members of his family. Hope you'll find it useful.


----------



## Xopxe

_'Єдiменко' soundі very unnatural in Ukrainian. In fact, you can use such a surname, but it won't be Ukrainian anymore_ 

Both forms Єдіменко and Єдименко sound quite Ukrainian and both could be correct for different persons. In fact the correct form is the form that is used in a Ukrainian citizen passport, and in this passport may be used form that sounds a bit strange. For example, I know a person with a surname Ясінскі in his Ukraininan passport, he is a Hungarian of Slavic origin.

Also, I guess Byelorussian -enko surnames are not exclusively Ukrainian or "Ukrainian model", but rather common model. Byelorussian language shares some surname models with Russian and Polish too.


----------



## mateo19

I know this post hasn't been active for a while, but I just found this info in my Ukrainian book and wanted to share it with the forum:

"Certain types of Ukrainian surnames are typical of certain regions.

For example:

Suffixes                                  Predominantly
-ович (Прокопович)                 -western regions
-ів (Лесів)                              -western regions
-ук (-чук, щук) (Поліщук)        -western and southern
-ій (Палій)                              -eastern
-енко (Гончаренко)                 -eastern (the most common type)

Names of animals, various objects, as well as professions also appear as surnames all over the Ukraine (cf. Мельник = Miller)."

Interesting stuff, eh?


----------



## Anatoli

Xopxe said:


> _'Єдiменко' soundі very unnatural in Ukrainian. In fact, you can use such a surname, but it won't be Ukrainian anymore_
> 
> Both forms Єдіменко and Єдименко sound quite Ukrainian and both could be correct for different persons. In fact the correct form is the form that is used in a Ukrainian citizen passport, and in this passport may be used form that sounds a bit strange. For example, I know a person with a surname Ясінскі in his Ukraininan passport, he is a Hungarian of Slavic origin.
> 
> Also, I guess Byelorussian -enko surnames are not exclusively Ukrainian or "Ukrainian model", but rather common model. Byelorussian language shares some surname models with Russian and Polish too.


I am glad that Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish people cannot claim the majority of surnames as their own only, this, at least, makes us share something in common.

Even Polish names that are "pure" Polish have Russian (also read: Ukrainian, Belarusian) equivalents (with some adjustments).

Some names were incorrectly borrowed or transliterated or adjusted to the local spelling/pronunciation:
 Interesting that Tsiolkovsky (Циолковский) (Polish: _Ciołkowski_) could actually be Телковский or Тёлковский and _Dąbrowski_ could be either Dombrovsky (Домбровский - based on the Polish pronunciation) or Dubrovsky (Дубровский - translated).


----------

