# Urdu: boltaa jaataa hai



## Abu Talha

Hello,

Here is a similar thread: Urdu: bolii jaa rahaa hai.

Is the conjugation _boltaa jaataa hai_ correct as used in _woh boltaa jaataa hai_, "He keeps speaking"?

Here are some more examples:
_woh khaataa jaataa hai.
woh kitaab paRhtii jaatii hai._

Thanks.


----------



## marrish

Hi,

This conjugation doesn't exist in the variety of Urdu I speak and it seems very strange.
So for me, it is not correct.

I have never encountered these forms in literature nor in speech. Here we would use _'rahnaa'_.


----------



## Qureshpor

daee said:


> Hello,
> 
> Here is a similar thread: Urdu: bolii jaa rahaa hai.
> 
> Is the conjugation _boltaa jaataa hai_ correct as used in _woh boltaa jaataa hai_, "He keeps speaking"?
> 
> Here are some more examples:
> _woh khaataa jaataa hai.
> woh kitaab paRhtii jaatii hai._
> 
> Thanks.



May I first of all say daee SaaHib that, more often than not, your posts are quite thought provoking and these recent ones are no exception! Although I have been attached to Urdu from childhood, I still feel unsure about a number of grammatical points in the language. I have no doubt that when DaaGh said..

nahiiN khel ai DaaGh yaaroN se kah do
kih aatii hai Urdu zabaaN aate aate!

--he was addressing people like me!

Anyway, just to wind marrish SaaHib, I believe your sentences are perfectly fine. Once again IMHO!


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> May I first of all say daee SaaHib that, more often than not, your posts are quite thought provoking and these recent ones are no exception! Although I have been attached to Urdu from childhood, I still feel unsure about a number of grammatical points in the language. I have no doubt that when DaaGh said..
> 
> nahiiN khel ai DaaGh yaaroN se kah do
> kih aatii hai Urdu zabaaN aate aate!
> 
> --he was addressing people like me!
> 
> Anyway, just to wind marrish SaaHib, I believe your sentences are perfectly fine. Once again IMHO!



The queries of daee SaaHib are mind twisting, indeed, since I have never thought of such construction in the sense of the grammar of Urdu language.

I may be a _yaar_ from this couplet I think. I love it.

IMHO, once again, these sentences are strange. I mean they may be possible in theory but I don't know them. Maybe in a past tense.


----------



## tonyspeed

_boltaa jaataa hai _has different connotation than merely to keep speaking. That would be "boltaa rehtaa hai" as marrish-ji said.
The form you are asking about has a connotation of making some kind of progress or forward movement as well.



It is a infrequently used form but quite valid.


----------



## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> This conjugation doesn't exist in the variety of Urdu I speak and it seems very strange.
> So for me, it is not correct.
> 
> I have never encountered these forms in literature nor in speech. Here we would use _'rahnaa'_.


Marrish SaaHib, thanks for your reply. Is your objection to the verb jaanaa here, or to two verbs in "habitual" conjugation together? That is, is woh boltaa rahtaa hai good, as far as you're concerned. For what it's worth, boltaa rahtaa seems more established (at least I've heard it more) than boltaa jaataa.



QURESHPOR said:


> May I first of all say daee SaaHib that, more often than not, your posts are quite thought provoking and these recent ones are no exception! Although I have been attached to Urdu from childhood, I still feel unsure about a number of grammatical points in the language.


Thanks Qureshpor Saahib! My Urdu is shaped by a diverse array of speakers that I have known throughout my life and I am often times uncertain about many points.





> Anyway, just to wind marrish SaaHib, I believe your sentences are perfectly fine. Once again IMHO!


Thanks for your worthy opinion.


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> The queries of daee SaaHib are mind twisting, indeed, since I have never thought of such construction in the sense of the grammar of Urdu language.
> 
> I may be a _yaar_ from this couplet I think. I love it.
> 
> IMHO, once again, these sentences are strange. I mean they may be possible in theory but I don't know them. Maybe in a past tense.




chaman meN rah ke viiraanah miraa dil hotaa jaataa hai
xushii meN aajkal kuchh Gham bhii shaamil hotaa jaataa hai

Shakeel Badayuni (Film Andaaz- Shamshad Begum)


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> chaman meN rah ke viiraanah miraa dil hotaa jaataa hai
> xushii meN aajkal kuchh Gham bhii shaamil hotaa jaataa hai
> 
> Shakeel Badayuni (Film Andaaz- Shamshad Begum)


Point taken, Qureshpor SaaHib, with _hotaa_ it does sound good!


----------



## marrish

daee said:


> Marrish SaaHib, thanks for your reply. Is your objection to the verb jaanaa here, or to two verbs in "habitual" conjugation together? That is, is woh boltaa rahtaa hai good, as far as you're concerned. For what it's worth, boltaa rahtaa seems more established (at least I've heard it more) than boltaa jaataa.


Yes, you are right to say that the verb _jaanaa_ raised my objection. I think there is a distinction in verbal aspects of Urdu as to ''habitual'' and '''progressive'', which the valuable input of *tonyspeed* SaaHib suggests.


----------



## Abu Talha

Thank you Tony, Qureshpor, Marrish saahibs!


----------



## Faylasoof

I agree with both QP and tonyspeed SaaHibaan that daee SaaHib's sentences are indeed correct and as tonyspeed has pointed out the connotation is indeed different. These tend to be used with a condition or two. 



tonyspeed said:


> _boltaa jaataa hai _has different connotation than merely to keep speaking. That would be "boltaa rehtaa hai" as marrish-ji said.
> The form you are asking about has a connotation of making some kind of progress or forward movement as well.
> 
> *It is a infrequently used form but quite valid*.


 I think the problem might be if taken as they are they may sound odd to some ears, although they really are not. So let me put them as follows:

_jitnaa use aur waqt do utnaa hii woh boltaa jaataa hai_
_The more time you give him the more he keeps speaking!_

This is someone (e.g. me) complaining about people make extra long speeches, for example! Or us talking endlessly about which words are used or not!

Similarly, for the other two:

_jab tak ke uske saamne khaanaa rakkhaa rahe woh khaataa jaataa hai!_
_As long as food stays in front of him he keeps eating! _

_jab tak ke raushnii rahtii hai woh kitaab paRhtii jaatii hai._
_She keeps reading as long as there is light / as long as (day)light remains

_We can also say these with _chaalaa jaataa / chalii jaatii : __jab tak ke uske saamne khaanaa rakkhaa rahe woh khaataa chalaa jaataa hai!_

_*BTW*_ _*, I wouldn't say these constructs are infrequent! It all depends on what one is trying to say.*_


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Point taken, Qureshpor SaaHib, with _hotaa_ it does sound good!




jidhar paanii kaa ruKh thaa saaHil girtaa jaataa thaa
kisaanoN kii 3arq-rezii pih paanii phirtaa jaataa thaa

Ihsaan Daanish (1914-1982)


----------



## marrish

I think the remark of Faylasoof SaaHib is right, it depends on what one is trying to say. I realize now that it is used, as a matter of fact. However I don't think it is used in the sense the OP defined as ''to keep doing", rather "to go on doing'' or ''to keep on doing''.


----------



## tonyspeed

Faylasoof said:


> These tend to be used with a condition or two.



Interesting. If you had to translate this into English how would you do it? Or is it a nuance lost in translation?


----------



## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> I think the remark of Faylasoof SaaHib is right, it depends on what one is trying to say. I realize now that it is used, as a matter of fact. However I don't think it is used in the sense the OP defined as ''to keep doing", rather "to go on doing'' or ''to keep on doing''.





tonyspeed said:


> Interesting. If you had to translate this into English how would you do it? Or is it a nuance lost in translation?


I think Faylasoof SaaHib's (thanks, by the way!) sentences shed much light on this. My English translation is, as usual, very sloppy. In English, in addition to Marrish Saahib's suggestions, perhaps you could say, "goes on"? Oops, I missed where Marrish already suggests this.


----------



## Faylasoof

tonyspeed said:


> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof*                                    These tend to be used with a condition or two.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. If you had to translate this into English how would you do it? Or is it a nuance lost in translation?
Click to expand...

 Sorry you lost me! Unless you are talking about a certain kind of condition. What I said above (post#11), was that when we wish to use this particular form we always have the kind of condition I mention above, i.e. "As long as ... (jab tak ke ...) or "The more time we give him / her ...(jitnaa aur waqt use deN...) etc. etc.

Was I clear earlier or did I confuse everyone?


----------



## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> Sorry you lost me! Unless you are talking about a certain kind of condition. What I said above (post#11), was that when we wish to use this particular form we always have the kind of condition I mention above, i.e. "As long as ... (jab tak ke ...) or "The more time we give him / her ...(jitnaa aur waqt use deN...) etc. etc.


This may be the reason I stamped these forms as incorrect at the first glance. However I was more concerned with the usage which daee SaaHib gave in English.


> Was I clear earlier or did I confuse everyone?


As per the quotation given by Qureshpor SaaHib it is not always the case.


----------



## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> This may be the reason I stamped these forms as incorrect at the first glance. However I was more concerned with the usage which daee SaaHib gave in English....
> .


 Yes, I agree that daee SaaHib's original usage is something we normally wouldn't have. For "He keeps speaking / talking" we indeed would say "woh boltaa rahtaa / baat kartaa rahtaa hai".


----------



## Abu Talha

Faylasoof said:


> Yes, I agree that daee SaaHib's original usage is something we normally wouldn't have. For "He keeps speaking / talking" we indeed would say "woh boltaa rahtaa / baat kartaa rahtaa hai".


Apologies for the misleading example sentences in my original post and their sloppy translation. I just came up with them at the spur of the moment as I had forgotten the original real-life conversation which had provoked this query. I also prefer the example sentences and verses that others have graciously provided.

Having said that, I think I have heard sentences like, "bas, woh boltaa jaataa hai, boltaa jaataa hai, rukne kaa naam hi nahiiN letaa,"* describing someone who talks a lot. I think "boltaa rahtaa" here would give a slightly different meaning, which is basically what tonyspeed sahib describes it in #5.

*EDIT: Actually, "bole jaataa" may be more suitable here.


----------



## Faylasoof

daee said:


> Apologies for the misleading example sentences in my original post and their sloppy translation. I just came up with them at the spur of the moment as I had forgotten the original real-life conversation which had provoked this query. I also prefer the example sentences and verses that others have graciously provided.
> 
> Having said that, I think I have heard sentences like, "_*bas, woh boltaa jaataa hai, boltaa jaataa hai, rukne kaa naam hi nahiiN letaa,*_"* describing someone who talks a lot. I think "boltaa rahtaa" here would give a slightly different meaning, which is basically what tonyspeed sahib describes it in #5.
> 
> *EDIT: Actually, "bole jaataa" may be more suitable here.


 No apologies needed! _*I agree that here we would say it just like this*_.  As for _bole jaataa_ , I have heard this but my own choice would still fall on the above. I wouldn't necessarily say that _bole jaata,_ to be sure, is more suitable. 

BTW, in a less polite form we might go for: "_*bas, woh baktaa jaataa hai, baktaa jaataa hai, rukne kaa naam hi nahiiN letaa!*_"


----------

