# Ave Maria sung in weddings



## Whisky con ron

Hi all!

Although strictly speaking this is a musical subject, (and maybe outwith the scope of the forum from that point of view) I would like to learn the traditions on wedding ceremonies from othe cultures. Google is not proving very helpful anyway....

In catholic weddings it's traditional to sing the Ave Maria (hail Mary) just after the blessing itself (once they exchange rings etc). Two versions are particularly lovely: Gounod's and Schubert's. I guess this is not a tradition in protestant weddings, am I correct?

Also, what kind of music is traditional in a protestant (and other religion's) weddings? I'm thinking more about the ceremony and not the party afterwards.

Does everybody use Wagner's wedding march (tan tan ta ta... tan tan ta ta).

Thanks for your thougts!


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## Joca

Whisky con ron said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Although strictly speaking this is a musical subject, (and maybe outwith the scope of the forum from that point of view) I would like to learn the traditions on wedding ceremonies from othe cultures. Google is not proving very helpful anyway....
> 
> In catholic weddings it's traditional to sing the Ave Maria (hail Mary) just after the blessing itself (once they exchange rings etc). Two versions are particularly lovely: Gounod's and Schubert's. I guess this is not a tradition in protestant weddings, am I correct?
> 
> Also, what kind of music is traditional in a protestant (and other religion's) weddings? I'm thinking more about the ceremony and not the party afterwards.
> 
> Does everybody use Wagner's wedding march (tan tan ta ta... tan tan ta ta).
> 
> Thanks for your thougts!


 
I don't remember having heard Ave Maria on the few Catholic weddings I have so far attended in my lifetime. Now, Wagner's wedding march seems to be a lot more common. These days, however, many couples would rather have some romantic pop song than some classical piece. Often the pop song is played or sung in a stylish fashion, so that it sounds a little more solemn. Julio Iglesias can be an example of this. 

JC


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## ghoti

Not everybody uses the _Lohengrin_ march to enter or the _Midsummer Night's Dream_ one to exit, though they are the most common. I used the wedding march from _Don Giovanni_ for my virst wedding. Of course, that marriage didn't last... 

The _Ave Maria_: There is an old joke in Catholic circles: What's the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist? Answer: You can negotiate with a terrorist. A liturgical purist would insist that the _Ave Maria_ (and there are many other versions besides those top two) should *never* be sung during the wedding, especially if it's a Mass (as opposed to a service). Most Catholic churches I have been associated with sing it as a prelude, before things really get rolling, but perhaps after the mother of the bride (who probably loves the song) has been escorted in. There is no liturgically appropriate place for it in a Mass.

Of course, just because some people in authority disallow it doesn't mean it never happens. Even in the Catholic Church, some people some places ignore the "rules."

And pop songs have no place at a Mass either. People suggest things like their favorite songs for weddings, or _Wind beneath my Wings_ for funerals. Not permitted by most music directors/pastors/diocesan rulemakers.


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## Whisky con ron

ghoti said:


> A liturgical purist would insist that the _Ave Maria_ (and there are many other versions besides those top two) should *never* be sung during the wedding, especially if it's a Mass (as opposed to a service). .... There is no liturgically appropriate place for it in a Mass.


Really?  That's quite amaising to hear. In Vzla at least, the Ave Maria is sung after the blessing, half way through the mass at catholic ceremonies, and priests tend to encourage it!


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## ghoti

Whisky con ron said:


> Really? That's quite amaising to hear. In Vzla at least, the Ave Maria is sung after the blessing, half way through the mass at catholic ceremonies, and priests tend to encourage it!


 
I don't doubt you. It happens even in the US. But it's not "supposed" to happen, at least according to our most illustrious liturgical lights. 

Maybe there's some Roman document on this (probably obscure)!


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## ghoti

Here's at least one parish that uses the "Ave Maria" only as prelude music. Granted, it's only one American parish, but it's far from unique. Look here. Others use it after the official "the Mass is ended" (at which point the Mass really is over), and the bride puts her bouquet (or part of it) at the feet of a statue of Mary, then gives a rose to each of the mothers.

I have not been able to locate an official Roman document on the matter, but will keep looking. 

The rationale I have heard elsewhere is that during the Mass, all prayers are offered to the Father through the Son. The "Ave Maria" would change the dynamic (to say the least). But you've got me interested in continuing to look.

Ah, the perils of having too much time on one's hands!


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## clairenz

have never heard ave maria at any catholic weddings in nz, however it is common here for people to have popular music rather than hymns at funerals, particularly as the final or opening songs. ranges from abba to rod stewart with more contemporary music at young people's funerals


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## Nunty

I am not a liturgist (and am therefore open to negotiation), but in my experience, a song to the Blessed Virgin (Ave Maria, Salve Regina, some modern hymn) is often sung after the conclusion of a Mass. Some Communion hymns (like the French "Donne-nous ton Fils") refer to Mary in passing, as it were. I would be surprised to hear the Ave Maria sung in the course of a Mass, which has a particular structure and any music is supposed to follow what is going on at the altar.

The exception I can think of would be during the Prayers of the Faithful (Universal Prayer). I have more than once heard the refrain to the Lourdes hymn "Ave, ave, ave Maria" sung (inappropriately) as the response between intentions, but only by pilgrim groups celebrating Mass at the Basilica of the Annonciation in Nazareth.


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## ghoti

clairenz said:


> have never heard ave maria at any catholic weddings in nz, however it is common here for people to have popular music rather than hymns at funerals, particularly as the final or opening songs. ranges from abba to rod stewart with more contemporary music at young people's funerals


 
The operant word here is "Catholic." Depending upon denomination, Protestants tend to be somewhat more liberal. Some, in fact, are downright open to anything when it comes to weddings and funerals. But in the Catholic Church there are definite rites/rituals (which are more than "guidelines") that are expected to be followed for weddings and funerals, including making sure that the music fits with the liturgical purpose of whatever is going on as the main action at the time. Just because the late Suzie loved "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" does not mean it's appropriate to honor her memory by singing it at her funeral during Communion.

Wedding and funeral Masses, like all Masses, do not belong to individuals. They are not about the happy couple, or about the late Suzie. Those people may have a certain prominence at that moment, but a Mass is worship and is directed to God.

On Marian (= dedicated to Mary) feast days/celebrations, even at Masses, some exceptions are sometimes made when it comes to music. The "Magnificat" may be sung when the Annunciation is being celebrated (although it's a text that the Bible records as having been said *by* Mary about God's goodness, not *to* Mary, so it's really not a liturgical problem), or "Immaculate Mary," which is more of a problem because it is addressed to Mary. You may hear a Marian hymn at celebrations of the Assumption. Or, if there's going to be a May crowning, the deadful "Bring Flowers of the Rarest."  In a similar vein, in the USA around July 4, I've often been to Masses where "American the Beautiful" or "God Bless America" is sung at Communion. Aargh. Totally inappropriate IMHO.


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## vachecow

Ive been to 4 protestant weddings, and the only thing that they had in common was that they used Wagner's wedding march (tan tan ta ta... tan tan ta ta).  I think only one of them included Ave Maria.  I guess that protestants dont have as many regulations.


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## Whisky con ron

Well, the Roman Catholic church must be treating the Spanish and Spanish-speaking people differently, then, because it is very common to hear songs to Mary in mass. 

For those of you who can read spanish, see for instance this programme of the royal wedding of the prince of Asturias (heir to the Spanish crown) and Doña Letizia. http://personales.ya.com/fororeal/musicaboda.htm

It says that the music is strictly liturgist and also that after the "si, quiero" (yes I do), the Ave Maria of Motzart was sung. So, how does that fit with the USA-catholic view?

Very confused. BTW, I keep asking because I have offered to sing at a wedding of some friends and don't want to put my foot in with an inappropriate song, but am sure the priest will keep me right.... mmmm...


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## vachecow

If I were you, I would ask the priest.  That seems to be the safest way to make sure you don't mess up.

Also, good luck singing.....I'd be much too embarassed to sing in front of that many people.


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## Whisky con ron

I might chicken out after all, not sure yet...

Have a look at the repertoir for weddings from the orfeon de malaga: Enough Ave Marias there?

http://www.orfeonmalaga.org/bodas.htm


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## ghoti

Whisky con ron said:


> Very confused. BTW, I keep asking because I have offered to sing at a wedding of some friends and don't want to put my foot in with an inappropriate song, but am sure the priest will keep me right.... mmmm...


 
Don't chicken out. It's quite an honor to be asked to sing at a friend's wedding.

You can also not rely on a priest to keep you "right," but who cares? As long as he knows what you plan to sing and he says it's OK, he's the one who will catch any hell if there's hell to be caught. You're not in charge of dealing with the bureaucracy. (The main purposes of earlier posts was to explain what the reasoning is behind some of the Catholic rules.)

So sing, rejoice, enjoy. Life's too short.


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## Miguelillo 87

In México as iN Venezuela, we use Ave María a lot, but it diesn't have a really specific moment to be played.

So you can listen it, in the entrance of the bride, or when she is going. 
The Wagner son is listened ehenr we throught away the rice to the couple. 

In addition I have to agree with the most part, that in the mass is not played this song, but before and after it YES


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## Prinsesse

No ave maria in Denmark (protestants) but wagner is a classic


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## steffiegomez

hello,
In Mexico it is usually played at the end of the ceremony, when the bride "offers" her bouquet to the Virgen Maria, to be more specific, to the Virgen de Guadalupe
Regards


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## Nunty

I just finished translating an interesting article on Marian (relating to the Virgin Mary) veneration around the world. There are clear regional differences, and the Spanish-speaking countries seem to be the leaders in liturgical, para-liturgical and "popular devotion" (in the sense used by the Catholic Church) related to the Virgin Mary. It does not surprise me that the local church (again, in the sense used in Catholic ecclesiology) in Spain or in Central and South America has different norms. I am only really familiar with the Church in the Holy Land, which has its own mixed bag of customs.


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## mirx

Just to add.

Indeed in México de Ave Maria is played and usually not sung, the only masses I remember in which it was sung, it came at the end of the ceremony and it wa some sort of backgorund hymn, no one cared of even noticed it.


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## AnnieF

steffiegomez said:


> hello,
> In Mexico it is usually played at the end of the ceremony, when the bride "offers" her bouquet to the Virgen Maria, to be more specific, to the Virgen de Guadalupe
> Regards


 
The only place I ever heard it was at a catholic Italian wedding in Australia - unfortunately I can't remember at what point during the ceremony ...


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## alexacohen

Hi:
Maybe the Spanish Catholic Church doesn't follow the same rules... I have heard every kind of music at the weddings, from Mendelssohn's A Midsummer Night's Dream to Bob Dylan's Blowin' in the Wind (not the same lyrics, of course!). I chose for my wedding Bach's Cantata BWV 147, and one of my sisters chose Mozart's Voi Che Sapete. My youngest sister had her University colleagues singing pop songs, guitars and all!
Alexa


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## Miguelillo 87

In México only "holy" songs are allowed in the mass, but as  amatter of fact we sing a lot and we wave hands is funny sometimes.

Pop or other kind of music is only permited in the party


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