# 把 / 被 / 给



## xiaolijie

大家好！

Sentences with 把，被，给 sometimes land me in a muddle, so could Chinese native speakers please see if the following sentences are ok:

1. 孩子把那些点心吃了！
2. 孩子把那些点心给吃了！
3. 那些点心，孩子给吃了！
4. 那些点心被孩子吃了！
5. 那些点心给孩子吃了！
6. 那些点心让孩子给吃了！
7. 那些点心叫孩子给吃了！
8. 那些点心被孩子给吃了！

What I'd like to know is whether:
a. The sentences are all grammatically acceptable.
b. They all convey the basic meaning of _"The child ate the snack"._

谢谢！


----------



## avlee

They're roughly the same thing.
Some are more colloquial than the other. But the differences are not that much. So I'd say yes to both question a and b.


----------



## xiaolijie

Thank you avlee! I'm glad to hear, as the sentences were made up by me based on one that I saw. 

Cheers,


----------



## kareno999

xiaolijie said:


> 大家好!
> 
> Sentences with 把,被,给 sometimes land me in a muddle, so could Chinese native speakers please see if the following sentences are ok:
> 
> 1. 孩子把那些点心吃了!
> 2. 孩子把那些点心给吃了!
> 3. 那些点心,孩子给吃了!
> 4. 那些点心被孩子吃了!
> 5. 那些点心给孩子吃了!
> 6. 那些点心让孩子给吃了!
> 7. 那些点心叫孩子给吃了!
> 8. 那些点心被孩子给吃了!
> 
> What I'd like to know is whether:
> a. The sentences are all grammatically acceptable.
> b. They all convey the basic meaning of _"The child ate the snack"._
> 
> 谢谢!


Yes, they all convey a basic meaning as you said, but also have some nuances.
"孩子把那些点心吃了!" simply means "the kid ate the pastry." but "孩子把那些点心给吃了!" implies that the child shouldn't have done it since, say, the pastry was reserved for the guests. This is also the case with 6, 7 and 8. 
I think 给 always has some negative tint when it appears in such a structure.

给 is seldom used in formal situations, and never when it stands alone as in your fifth sentence. I tend to believe that people from some parts of North China use it more often than others. Dunno if it's true. 

Personally I never use 给 as in sentence 5 (it doesn't sound very decent to me) and also don't encourage you doing it since it may cause ambiguity. 那些点心给孩子吃了 can mean "I give the snack to the child to eat" in another context .


----------



## xiaolijie

Thank you for your comment and advice, Karano999. You're right but it 's unlikely that I'll use some of the variations above. I'm just trying to see if I understand some of the usages properly.


----------



## Staarkali

Very interresting thread! I'm puzzled with the use of passive in Mandarin.

Question: Can we omit 给 in the following sentences:
6. 那些点心让孩子给吃了!
7. 那些点心叫孩子给吃了!
8. 那些点心被孩子给吃了!

Note: I believe in AE, people would translate 点心 directly as _dim sum_, in BE I don't know, in French I'm certain nobody knows what is a dim sum.


----------



## avlee

You are right. That character can be omitted without changing the main meaning of the original sentences but make it sound more colloquial.

点心 to me, is desserts, cookies, biscuits sort of snack...It's rather a collective word. Don't understand how _dim sum_ comes out_. _


----------



## Staarkali

Maybe 点心 may reflect various taste of various Chinese culture (this is only a speculation); however, fersure most of the Chinese people outside China comes from the south (广东，广西，福建）, and I think dim sum is Cantonese for 点心 (to be confirmed), hence the fame of the dim sum in America (nowadays Chinese food represents a lot in American eating habits, especially in fast food, that information also to be confirmed by American people).

A lot of information to be confirmed, but I think we have the basics of the origin of the dim sum fame.

Thanks for the answer by the way  I'm never using 给 for that purpose and I was afraid I was wrong.


----------



## coconutpalm

Although we have 被字句, 被 sounds not normal or natural in most cases, as in your examples, 让 and 叫 sounds more natural, at least for me.


----------



## xiaolijie

avlee said:


> 点心 to me, is desserts, cookies, biscuits sort of snack...Don't understand how _dim sum_ comes out_. _


_Dim sum_ I believe is Cantonese pronunciation. Until very recently, many Chinese living abroad are Cantonese speakers.


----------



## xiaolijie

The problem with these words (把，被，给) is that each can work in more than one function and cause ambiguity. For example, I'd ordinarily translate *这件事他给你耽误了* as _"He's messed you up with this"_ but I wonder if there's any situation where it could possibly mean _"You've messed him up with this",_ where *给 *can be regarded as a kind of *被 *. 
Is this sentence indeed ambiguous ???


----------



## coconutpalm

I think it's indeed ambiguous.
It can mean both without a context. However, with a context, it's natural Chinese. 
In both cases, the stress is on 耽误.
Others may have different opinions.


----------



## kareno999

xiaolijie said:


> The problem with these words (把,被,给) is that each can work in more than one function and cause ambiguity. For example, I'd ordinarily translate *这件事他给你耽误了* as _"He's messed you up with this"_ but I wonder if there's any situation where it could possibly mean _"You've messed him up with this",_ where *给 *can be regarded as a kind of *被 *.
> Is this sentence indeed ambiguous ???


Maybe 他这件事给你耽误了 is ambiguous. 这件事他给你耽误了 is not.


----------

