# eräät / muutama



## Gavril

How would you describe the difference between these words? Does _eräät_ normally imply a greater or smaller number of things than _muutama_?

Here are some example sentences:


_Väität olevasi Urho Kekkosen suora jälkeläinen, mutta eräät / muutama tuttavani ovat ilmaisseet minulle vakavaa epäilystä siitä.

Vain eräillä / muutamilla pohjoismaalaisilla on siniset silmät.

Eräät / muutama vanhat ystävät ja omaiset tulivat hautajaisille; muut jäivät pois.

Tähän asti emme ole löytäneet ketään, joka pelastaisi yhtiön, mutta olen juuri saanut tietoa eräiltä / muutamilta, jotka sanovat olevan kiinnostuneet!_


Kiitos!


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## Ригель

Gavril said:


> How would you describe the difference between these words? Does _eräät_ normally imply a greater or smaller number of things than _muutama_?



Considering quantity, both _eräät_ and _muutama(t)_ describe the same amount which is usually referred to in english as _a few_ or _a handful_, being something around 2-7. The difference arises in that while _muutama(t)_ is a neutral word to define some small number of things, _eräät_ implies certainty. Thus, the things referred to are definite but not (necessarily) explicitly named -- out of courtesy, confidentiality, redundancy or something alike. Consider for example the following sentence:

_Eräät kansanedustajat ovat ilmoittaneet seksuaalisesta härinnästä.
Certain congressmen have reported sexual harassment._




Gavril said:


> _Väität olevasi Urho Kekkosen suora jälkeläinen, mutta eräät / muutama*t* tuttavani ovat ilmaisseet siitä epäilystään minulle._
> [Either one goes fine but _eräät_ would imply a certain level of reluctance on your part to reveal the names of those in doubt. While it's perfectly fine to raise _serious_ doubts in english, the most common adjectives to describe doubts in finnish are _pieni_ and _suuri_ i.e. _herättää pientä/suurta epäilystä_. However, these should rather be used according to the seriousness of the _matter_ in doubt than the _level_ of your doubts.]
> 
> _Vain osalla pohjoismaalaisista on siniset silmät._ [_Eräillä/muutamilla_ strictly implies small quantity (2-7) which of course isn't accurate. _Jotkut/jotkin_ is less strict as far as quantity goes, but should be used to convey contrast e.g. _some_ people as opposed to some other ones. _Joillakin pohjoismaalaisilla on siniset silmät, toisilla taas ruskeat._]
> 
> _(Vain) muutama vanhat ystävät ja omainen tulivat hautajaisiin; muut jäivät pois._ [As a neutral sentence there is nothing to justify the use of _eräs_.]
> 
> _Tähän mennessä emme ole löytäneet ketään, joka pelastaisi yhtiön, mutta olen juuri saanut tietoa eräi*s*tä / muutami*s*ta, jotka sanovat olevansa kiinnostuneita!_ [Here _eräistä_ would give the impression that a follow-up sentence is about to explain in more detail who the people in question are, or again, it implies reluctance to reveal who they are.  _Muutamista_ on the other hand is plain neutral here.]


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## Gavril

Ригель said:


> Considering quantity, both _eräät_ and _muutama(t)_ describe the same amount which is usually referred to in english as _a few_ or _a handful_, being something around 2-7. The difference arises in that while _muutama(t)_ is a neutral word to define some small number of things, _eräät_ implies certainty.



Certainty about what? That the number of things is small?


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## Hakro

Please note that originally _eräs = muuan / muutama = _one. Today _eräs_ still means one, _muuan_ has practically vanished and _muutama_ has a new meaning: a couple, a few. So there's no difference between the singular _muutama_ and the plural _muutamia_. _
Muutama poika = muutamia poikia._

(I'm so old that I never use the singular _muutama_ if I speak about several things.)


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## Ригель

Gavril said:


> Certainty about what? That the number of things is small?



Certainty, or preciseness if you will, about what/who is being talked about.



Ригель said:


> [...] the things referred to are definite [...]



That is to say, _muutama(t)_ is a neutral, generic way to express _a few_ without further ado, while _eräät_ describes _a certain few_, leaving the impression that further information is hanging in the air. This, as I tried to explain in some of your example sentences, leads to the conclusion that if you say _eräät_ then you're either about to get to that further information, or, more likely, you have good reason not to give the details away while making clear that the things in question are not just any things, but some certain, precise ones.

Hope this clarifies the idea!


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## Gavril

Ригель said:


> Certainty, or preciseness if you will, about what/who is being talked about.
> 
> 
> 
> That is to say, _muutama(t)_ is a neutral, generic way to express _a few_ without further ado, while _eräät_ describes _a certain few_, leaving the impression that further information is hanging in the air. This, as I tried to explain in some of your example sentences, leads to the conclusion that if you say _eräät_ then you're either about to get to that further information, or, more likely, you have good reason not to give the details away while making clear that the things in question are not just any things, but some certain, precise ones.
> 
> Hope this clarifies the idea!



It does, thanks. The closest English translation I know of for _eräs_ is the phrase _a certain_ ("a certain person", "a certain country" etc.) and now that I think about it, if a word is preceded by _a certain_, it seems to imply a similar certainty to what you describe above (if I say, _a certain someone_, I know who that "someone" is, even if I don't reveal it explicitly).


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## akana

> It does, thanks. The closest English translation I know of for eräs is the phrase a certain ("a certain person", "a certain country" etc.) and now that I think about it, if a word is preceded by a certain, it seems to imply a similar certainty to what you describe above (if I say, a certain someone, I know who that "someone" is, even if I don't reveal it explicitly).



Another word closely related to _eräs_ is _tietty_, which hints at the meaning of both. Literally: "known." So whatever _eräs_ is referring to is known, but not revealed.

An attempt:
_Tietyistä syistä me olemme päättäneet olla mainostamatta yksityiskohtia. (yksityiskohdat?)_


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