# grape / raisin



## elroy

Palestinian Arabic, like English, uses two totally unrelated words for "grape" and "raisin":

grape = عنبة [ʕinbe]
raisin = زبيبة [zbi:be]

(Standard Arabic uses the same words, just the pronunciation is different.)

What about other languages?  Are the two words/terms related?


----------



## Abaye

Hebrew: two unrelated terms.

Grape: ענב (ʕenab, modern pronounce ʕenav, similar to Arabic and Aramaic)
Raisin: צימוק (ṣimmuq, modern pronounce tzimuk, similar to Ugaritic and probably other Canaanite languages)


----------



## סייבר־שד

If you look up the term in a bilingual Spanish dictionary, you'll usually get at least these two terms for the same thing: *uva pasa *and the shortened form *pasa*. 
[Last minute edit: well, duh, I forgot to mention that both *pasa *and *uva pasa *are usually given in such dictionaries as equivalents of *raisin*, whereas *grape *is simply *uva*.]

In Mexico, however, we usually call *pasas *or *pasitas* the small, black (or dark brownish/reddish) ones, whereas the larger, black ones are rather given the full name: *uvas pasas*.
I'm a huge lover of both myself. 😎


----------



## apmoy70

Greek:

Grape: *«Σταφύλι»* [s̠t̠a.ˈfi.li] (neut. nom. sing.), *«σταφύλια»* [s̠t̠a.ˈfi.ʎa] (neut. nom. pl.) < Byz. Gr. neut. diminutive *«σταφύλι(ο)ν» staphýli(o)n* of the Classical feminine noun *«σταφυλή» stăpʰŭlḗ*, zero grade of the Classical neuter noun *«στέμφυλον» stémpʰŭlŏn* --> _mass of olives from which the oil has been pressed_ (no further etymology, a Pre-Greek group of words).

Raisin: *«Σταφίδα»* [s̠t̠a.ˈfi.ða] (fem. nom. sing.), *«σταφίδες»* [s̠t̠a.ˈfi.ðe̞s̠] (fem. nom. pl.) < Classical 3rd declension feminine noun *«ἀσταφίς» ăstăpʰís* (nom. sing.), (var. *«ὀσταφίς» ŏstăpʰís*), *«ἀσταφίδος» ăstăpʰídŏs* (gen. sing.), later, *«σταφίς, σταφίδος» stăpʰís* (nom. sing.), *stăpʰídŏs* (gen. sing.) --> _dried grape, raisin_ (etymologically speaking, the stem recalls «σταφυλή»; according to Beekes _a typical substrate word, with prothetic vowel and variation α-/o-_).


סייבר־שד said:


> If you look up the term in a bilingual Spanish dictionary, you'll usually get at least these two terms for the same thing: *uva pasa *and the shortened form *pasa*.
> 
> In Mexico, however, we usually call *pasas *or *pasitas* the small, black (or dark brownish/reddish) ones, whereas the larger, black ones are rather given the full name: *uvas pasas*.


Here, the metonymy of «σταφίδα» is usually *«σουλτανίνα»* [s̠ul.t̠a.ˈni.na] (fem.), which is the most common raisin variation < It. _sultanina_ --> _golden-coloured raisin_, from the golden-coloured grape, _sultana_.


סייבר־שד said:


> I'm a huge lover of both myself. 😎


Try raisins together with whole baked salted almonds...out of this world


----------



## alfaalfa

Ciao,
In Italian:
grape: _uva_
raisin: _uva passa, uvetta _or 


apmoy70 said:


> It. _(uva)_ _sultanina _



_Passa=appassita > _dried  up


@apmoy70 I always wandered if in Corinth they say _raisin de Corinthe, _just like French people do 





apmoy70 said:


> whole baked salted almonds 😋


----------



## apmoy70

alfaalfa said:


> ...
> @apmoy70 I always wandered if in Corinth they say _raisin de Corinthe, _just like French people do


 We call it Corinthian too = *«Κορινθιακή σταφίδα»* [ko̞.ɾin.θi.a.ˈci.s̠t̠a.ˈfi.ða] (both feminine), it's the darker, sweeter one


----------



## sound shift

elroy said:


> raisin = زبيبة [zbi:be]


(Somewhat off-topic reply )

That's interesting, because in Sicily, which was of course controlled by the Arabs for a while, there's a variety of wine grape called "zibibbo", a word that wine writers say "may be of Arab origin".


----------



## Awwal12

elroy said:


> What about other languages? Are the two words/terms related?


In Russian they're unrelated at all.
grape - виноград (vinográd) [vʲɪnɐ'grat], a proto-Slavic loan from a Germanic source (Gothic?);
raisin - изюм (izyúm) [ɪ'zʲum], a much later loan (circa 15th century) from a Turkic source.


----------



## sound shift

Awwal12 said:


> raisin - изюм (izyúm) [ɪ'zʲum], a much later loan (circa 15th century) from a Turkic source.


 "Üzüm" is Turkish for "grape(s)"
The Turkish for "raisin" is "kuru üzüm" - literally, "dry grape(s)".


----------



## AndrasBP

Hungarian uses different words:

grape: *szőlő *[ˈsøːløː] - it's an early loan from a Chuvash-type Turkic language

raisin: *mazsola *[ˈmɒʒolɒ] - metathesis of 'malozsa', derived from Italian 'malvasia', a type of grape


----------



## vianie

Slovak versions are quite close to each other

grapes - hrozno (tantum plurale and a colloquial form of vinič)

raisin - hrozienko (lit. little grape)


----------



## AndrasBP

elroy said:


> raisin = زبيبة [zbi:be]





sound shift said:


> "zibibbo", a word that wine writers say "may be of Arab origin".


👉*Zibebe* is also used in southern German and Austria.



vianie said:


> Slovak versions are quite close to each other
> 
> grape(s) - hrozno
> 
> raisin - hrozienko (lit. little grape)


This is interesting because apparently both words are of Slavic origin but the middle of 'h*rozien*ko' looks a lot like German 'Rosine'.


----------



## vianie

AndrasBP said:


> This is interesting because apparently both words are of Slavic origin but the middle of 'h*rozien*ko' looks a lot like German 'Rosine'.


This might be a common IE root, since also Czech has _rozinky_ for raisins, Slovak being preserved or added the h.


----------



## AndrasBP

vianie said:


> added the h


That's more likely, under the influence of '*h*rozno'.


----------



## dihydrogen monoxide

BCS:

grape: grožđe (although there is also grozd which refers to a single grape)
raisins: grožđice

Slovene:

grape: grozdje
raisins: rozine


----------



## vianie

AndrasBP said:


> That's more likely, under the influence of '*h*rozno'.


I just wonder whether it has to do anything with adjective hrozný, which we can find in Russian too.


----------



## Awwal12

vianie said:


> I just wonder whether it has to do anything with adjective hrozný, which we can find in Russian too.


No. Грозный/hrozný goes back to *groza "horror"; hrozno goes back to *grozdŭ "cluster, bunch" (cf. Rus. гроздь, id.). Cf. Eng. grue and gorse respectively.


----------



## apmoy70

AndrasBP said:


> ...
> raisin: *mazsola *[ˈmɒʒolɒ] - metathesis of 'malozsa', derived from Italian '*malvasia*', a type of grape


Which is the corruption of the Greek name Μονεμβασία Monemvasia


----------



## Agró

*Catalan*
Grape: *raïm*
Raisin: *pansa*


----------



## Yendred

In French:

English_ grape = _French_ raisin _/ʁɛ.zɛ̃/:






English_ raisin = _French_ raisin sec /ʁɛ.zɛ̃ sɛk/ _or r_aisin de Corinthe _/ʁɛ.zɛ̃ də kɔ.ʁɛ̃t/:


----------



## סייבר־שד

apmoy70 said:


> Try raisins together with whole baked salted almonds...out of this world


Thanks for the suggestion, will do! 



sound shift said:


> That's interesting, because in Sicily, which was of course controlled by the Arabs for a while, there's a variety of wine grape called "zibibbo", a word that wine writers say "may be of Arab origin".


Henriette Walter and Bassam Baraké are of the same opinion, as you can see in their book _"Arabesques, l'aventure de la langue arabe en occident"_.


----------



## elroy

apmoy70 said:


> whole *baked* salted almonds


Do you mean "roasted"?


----------



## Frank78

German:

grape = (Wein-)traube
raisin = Rosine



Yendred said:


> English_ raisin = _French_ raisin sec /ʁɛ.zɛ̃ sɛk/ _or r_aisin de *Corinthe* _/ʁɛ.zɛ̃ də kɔ.ʁɛ̃t/:



Is this used for all raisins? Currant (Germ.: Korinthe) is a raisin from a special type of vine, namely _Vitis vinifera apyrena from _Greece_._


----------



## Yendred

Frank78 said:


> Is this used for all raisins? Currant (Germ.: Korinthe) is a raisin from a special type of vine, namely _Vitis vinifera apyrena from _Greece_._


Indeed, "_raisin sec_" (lit. "_dry raisin_", since they are made by dehydrating fresh fruit) is the generic name, "_raisin de Corinthe_" being a specific variety of "_raisin sec"._


----------



## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh

'grape'

grawnwinen - *'wine grain' + fem. dim.
*gwinronyn*- 'wine grain'
*grawnen* - 'grain' + fem. dim.

*grepsen *- < 'grape'
*grepan - *< 'grape'

All fem. except *gwinronyn* which is masc.

_______________

*'raisin'

resinen*  - < 'resin' (Old Fr.)
*rhesinen *- < 'resin' (Old Fr.) + fem. dim.

Both fem.

*grawinwen wedi ei sychu*
grape after its drying
'dry grape'

*grawn de Paris *(14th century)
grain of Paris
'raisin'

Both fem.

See GPC Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru 'rhesin' for the 5 plur. forms.


----------



## Ansku89

Finnish:
grape=(viini)rypäle
raisin=rusina


----------



## hx1997

Mandarin:

grape: 葡萄
raisin: 葡萄干 (干 being a suffix for dried food)


----------



## vianie

AndrasBP said:


> That's more likely, under the influence of '*h*rozno'.


Your guess was correct.

_Hrozno_ ->_ hrozienko_ is an example of folk etymology.

I was a bit confused because that's a regular way of creating diminutives, compare _okno_ (window) > _okienko_ (small window).

I'd also like to note that_ ia, ie, iu _and _ô_ (uo) always represents a sliding diphtong in Slovak.


----------



## Awwal12

vianie said:


> _Hrozno_ ->_ hrozienko_ is an example of folk etymology.


It would be folk etymology if the words were unrelated, but the thing is that hrozno clearly has influenced the shape that 'Rosine' has taken in Slovak (otherwise unmotivated phonetic changes + morphological structure), which makes it a perfect case of blending (contamination).


----------



## Terio

Yendred said:


> In French:
> 
> English_ grape = _French_ raisin _/ʁɛ.zɛ̃/:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English_ raisin = _French_ raisin sec /ʁɛ.zɛ̃ sɛk/ _or r_aisin de Corinthe _/ʁɛ.zɛ̃ də kɔ.ʁɛ̃t/:


To me, the generic term is_ raisin sec._

The_ raisin de Corinthe_ is just a type of grape generally sold dried up, among others (for example: _raisin Sultana_). But from time to time they sell them as grapes too.


----------

