# Swedish: "-berg" ending - Pronunciation help



## montmorencywrf

Hello,

I have to admit that part (but by no means all) of my interest in the Scandinavian languages was inspired by the Wallander books and TV series.

Although my very modest study has so far concentrated mostly on Norwegian, while watching the Swedish versions of Wallander, I do try to follow the language as far as I can (knowing German helps a little).

I have however, been completely foxed by the way the Swedish versions pronounce the name of "Nyberg" (the grumpy forensic expert). Not the "Ny" but the "-berg" which is unlike anything I expected.

I can hear the "b" and the "g", but what comes in between is a bit of a mystery, a sort of strangulated vowel or dipthong, with the "r" being almost completely swallowed as far as I can tell. I knew that Danes swallowed their words, but I didn't think the Swedes did. Could it be something to do with the Ystad accent? I believe that Skåne used to be part of Denmark, so perhaps there is some Danish-style swallowing going on 

If anyone wants to offer an IPA version of what it should sound like, then please do so, although I am not very proficient with IPA. If someone could additionally offer the nearest equivalent English word or syllable(s) to mimic the required sounds, that would be appreciated (although the problem may be that equivalent sounds don't exist in English).

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## Alxmrphi

Is it this pronunciation you're talking about?
Norwegian is also there at the bottom, a little more clear than the Swedish example (from the perspective of an English pronunciation of the word).

I'd be interested in knowing what this is as well, as (I don't think) it would be pronounced (anywhere near) like that in Icelandic.


----------



## montmorencywrf

@Alx, thanks for the link. Interesting. That's not quite what I remember, but it sounds equally not what I might expect. (They also have "Nyberg").
What I'm hearing is like "bear-gee". I don't remember (and would not expect), that "-ee" ending. It may be my imperfect hearing getting in the way though.

Mind you, I barely recognise the English pronunciation of the word on that website either; admittedly it is American English.


----------



## Tjahzi

Well, there is one complicating aspect regarding this issue, namely the fact that the Scanian dialect and the standard language realize /r/ differently and that that also has an effect on surrounding sounds. Although Wallander definitely _should_ speak Scanian, I'm not sure he does. Also, I assume you are watching the newer production (with Krister Henriksson, rather than Rolf Lassgård, as Wallander)? Anyhow, I'll sum up the phonological rules that affects the pronunciation of this word below.

In standard Swedish, /r/ is usually realized as an alveolar trill or flap (I prefer the latter and find it more common). When proceeded by any of the two above mentioned phones, /g/ is realized as [j] in word-final positions. 
I find it somewhat hard to determine exactly which phoneme that is lengthened in this word, but it must be either /g/ or /rg/. Hence, the vowel is anyway pronounced as short and as such, identically to a short /ä/ which means that it is lowered (since /ä/ and /ö/ preceding /r/ are always lowered in standard Swedish) from [ɛ] to [æ], which gives us the following transcription: [bærj:] (this is the one you hear in the link above (with the addition of a slightly increased rounding and backing of the /ä/ and the /r/ realized as a trill, both specifics of the Göteborg dialect (which makes perfect sense considering the speakers location on the map))).

As for Scanian, the biggest difference is that /r/ is realized as either an uvular fricative or trill. I believe, however, do note that I'm not 100% sure about this, that that leaves the vowel unchanged, but that the /g/ is still realized as [j]. Assuming that to be correct, we get the following transcription: [bɛʁj:] or [bɛʀj:].

To sum up, it's interesting that you hear a /g/ and it's an indication of that my assumption regarding Scanian realizing that /g/ as [j] is incorrect (assuming they do in fact speak Scanian in the movies, which I'm still not sure about, considering neither Henriksson nor Lassgård is from Scania).


----------



## Lars H

In the Swedish Wallander, some actors speak Swedish, other Skåne dialect. I would recommend for starters to stick to main syrran Swedish, the Skåne dialect can be quite tricky.

Not far from Ystad there is a village named Bjäresjö. (basicly Skåne dialect, or Danish, for "Mountain Lake").
Nearby lies a manor, that has a name in Swedish, "Bergsjöholm". 

The word "berg" comes in many flavours in southern Sweden...


----------



## Dan2

As I read this thread, it seems to me that confusion is arising because the non-Swedes may not realize that in standard Swedish, the 'g' of "berg" (like the 'g' of "Sverige") is pronounced in a way similar to the 'y' of English "yes". (There is no English 'g' sound in standard Swedish "berg"). On the other hand, for the Swedes, this fact is so obvious that they haven't explicitly mentioned it.

Tjahzi has given a very accurate description in terms of IPA (thanks for all the detail; very useful!), but in IPA the English 'y' of "yes" is [j], which while obvious to Swedes, Germans, etc., will be confusing to English speakers who haven't studied IPA.

One thing that makes Swedish "berg" difficult for English speakers is that it ENDS in a [j].  In English, [j] (written 'y'), occurs only at the beginning of syllables, as in "yes". (The LETTER 'y' occurs at the end of words, as in "bury", but then it's an _, not a [j].

[Norwegian often has a [g] where Swedish has a [j].  Compare the Norwegian and Swedish pronunciations of "berg" and "Norge".]

I hope the above is helpful.  But people with different language backgrounds can hear the same thing so differently that I may just be adding more confusion!_


----------



## montmorencywrf

Tjahzi, Lars and Dan2,

Thank you all very much for taking the time and trouble to explain in such detail.

I don't have a Swedish textbook as such, but today was studying the pronunciation guide in the Swedish section of a Scandinavian phrase-book, and spotted for the first time that final "g" (or [j] ) was like English "y" in "yes", which I would not have expected. I guess that's where what I called the "ee" is coming from in that pronunciation website that Alx posted about. Dan2 has confirmed this and given more information, for which thanks. (I am slowly trying to learn IPA; that interactive chart that someone posted a link to helps a lot).

As for Wallander, yes Tjahzi, it's mainly Krister Henriksson I have heard, but interestingly, BBC has just started showing the Rolf Lasgård versions, and as it happened, I watched one tonight; Lasgård seemed to be saying it "-barg", with a rolled "r", and maybe the "a" was an "æ", but it seemed a bit more closed than that. However, I will follow the spirit of the advice given here, and not worry too much about the pronunciation on "Wallander", especially as I have no way of knowing who is speaking Scanian or not. I'll try to find some more mainstream Swedish on internet radio perhaps.

Thanks again to all.


----------



## vaftrudner

Dan2 said:


> As I read this thread, it seems to me that confusion is arising because the non-Swedes may not realize that in standard Swedish, the 'g' of "berg" (like the 'g' of "Sverige") is pronounced in a way similar to the 'y' of English "yes". (There is no English 'g' sound in standard Swedish "berg"). On the other hand, for the Swedes, this fact is so obvious that they haven't explicitly mentioned it.


Another thing that adds to the confusion is that Swedes, when speaking English, generally pronounce the final 'g' as English speakers would expect. For example, I've heard Ingmar Bergman refer to himself as [bɜrgmæn] in an interview, and not [bærjman] as it's pronounced in Swedish


----------



## montmorencywrf

A supplementary question if I may, slightly prompted by the reference to "Bergman" above, from vaftrudner:

In the placename "Bergen", how is the "g" pronounced?

When listening to my "Teach Yourself Norwegian" CD, it sounded somewhat like an English native speaker would expect, but I could easily have been mistaken. (i.e. a more or less hard English "g").

What _should _it be, in Norwegian and also in Swedish?


Mange takk.


----------



## Ben Jamin

Dan2 said:


> One thing that makes Swedish "berg" difficult for English speakers is that it ENDS in a [j]. In English, [j] (written 'y'), *occurs only at the beginning of syllables, as in "yes*". (The LETTER 'y' occurs at the end of words, as in "bury", but then it's an _, not a [j].
> _


_


 What about words like *may, say, day, etc*?_


----------



## montmorencywrf

Ben Jamin said:


> What about words like *may, say, day, etc*?




Good question. However, I would say that the "y" in those words is not usually pronounced (unusually, it might be, for emphasis), and is therefore not the same as "y" in "yes".

I would pronounce "may", "say", "day" to rhyme with the English interjection "Eh?" (Similar to "Hey?" where the "y" is also not usually pronounced, at least in southern English - it might be in Yorkshire, etc, e.g. "Hey oop", which sounds like "heh-yoop").


----------



## Lars H

montmorencywrf said:


> In the placename "Bergen", how is the "g" pronounced?
> 
> What _should _it be, in Norwegian and also in Swedish?
> 
> Mange takk.



When Swedes speak, the town of Bergen is pronounced with a hard "g", similar to how Norwegians would pronounce it. 
I am not sure why we do that, but if we used the softer "j"-sound, it would sound like "bergen" meaning "the mountains". 

For other larger towns in Denmark and Norway, like Copenhagen, Oslo or Trondheim, the Swedish pronounciation differs from Danish or Norwegian, but that is not the case with Bergen.


----------



## Dan2

Dan2 said:


> One thing that makes Swedish "berg" difficult for English speakers is  that it ENDS in a [j].  In English, [j] (written 'y'), occurs only at  the beginning of syllables, as in "yes". (The LETTER 'y' occurs at the  end of words, as in "bury", but then it's an _, not a [j]._


_


Ben Jamin said:



			What about words like *may, say, day, etc*?
		
Click to expand...

I should have said that Swedish "berg" is difficult for English speakers because there's a [j] following a consonant at the end of a syllable.

You are correct that in standard British English and in most American dialects words like "may" (and "café" and "weigh", etc.) end in a glide to [j] or a position close to it.  (But in some UK, American, and Caribbean dialects the words simply end in [e].)  And of course, other English diphthongs, exemplified by "boy" and "by" (approximately [boj] and [baj]), show similar glides in the standard dialects.

Thank you for pointing out that more precision was needed._


----------

