# Slovenian: slince



## Nunty

Hi everyone! 

I am stepping over here to the Slavic forum hoping you can help with my hobby. When I'm not on WordReference Forums I am a lacemaker. One of my lacemaking colleagues has a text in what we believe is Slovenian that describes elements in Indrija lace. With help from machine translators (don't shoot me!) we have pretty much worked out all of it, but _slince_ defeats us. Saliva? Surely not!

This is the text in question as it was given to me:

"Na razstavi predstavljene idrijske čipke in izdelki iz čipk so delo
članic ... tulipane, pajke, satovje, slince, kantu rožice, rožice z
listi, figure ..."

Could someone help us out with the slince?

Thank you very much!


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## sokol

SSKJ - the most authoritative Slovenian dicitionary - has no entry for "slinec" (if it is mask. plural acc.) or "slinca" (if it is feminine; that would be fem. plural accusative then):
http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/sskj.html

So probably this is a traditional pattern - "slince" - which thus doesn't appear in dictionaries. (And yes, I also can't imagine that it could be related to "slina - saliva" - also because diminutive of this would be "slinček" and not "slince").


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## Nunty

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand that, sokol. Are you suggesting that "slince" is just a name for an element? A particular element that is not patterned on something else, is simply  a "slince"?


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## januska

I believe what is meant here is "_slinček_" (perhaps the word "_slinec_" -singular of _slinci_-is a bit archaic).
"_Slinček_" is the piece of cloth that you put under a baby's chin when he eats...


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## Nunty

Thank you, januska. Could that also be the name of an element in lace? (An element is not the thing you are making, but part of the design: a leaf, a flower, a spider...)


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## Duya

I googled a bit and found several references to "sukane slince", but I can't deduce from the context what they are. In the process, I also found a documentary on YouTube (search for "Prvi dokumentarni film o idrijski čipki" or English version "First documentary film about idrija lace").

There's also some kind of standard for Idrija lace here, which mentions:



> prepletanje parov z risom (pajki), s sukanjem na zunanjem robu risa (veriga), z risom in dvakrat zaklekljanima zadnjima paroma (slince), s sukanim risom;



Does that trigger anything for native speakers? It seems we need someone who knows both Slovenian and lace-making .


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## trance0

I believe this is is suppose to be the regular form of the diminutive _'slinček =  bib, feeder; pinafore, dick(e)y'_.  According to SSKJ 'slinček' is a piece of cloth that is put under the chin of children to protect their clothes (while they are eating), example: 'Zavezati otroku slinček'. If this is the case, we are talking about a masculine noun accusative plural form 'slince', which seems logical to me in this context. I am almost sure I have already come across this noun several times.


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## sokol

Nun-Translator said:


> I'm sorry, but I didn't understand that, sokol. Are you suggesting that "slince" is just a name for an element? A particular element that is not patterned on something else, is simply  a "slince"?


I suggested that "slince" (which, we seem to have established now, is probably an archaic nominative "slinec", nom. pl./acc. "slince" of which the diminutive, slinček, still is used in non-technical speech") - so, that "slince" were a pattern, yes: because it is in a list of patterns (like honeycomb) it should be another pattern.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about lace-making; I think with the answers of januska, duya and trance0 we've covered the linguistic part of your question, and what we'd need now indeed would be someone keen on lace-making ...
Google-hits indeed suggest that the "slince" pattern (or whatever it shold be) were something typical for Idrija, probably not known very well (and not used) outside Idrija (or Slovenia).


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## Nunty

Well, maybe someone will come along. After all, there is at least one lacemaker in English Only. 

Thank you for your help, everyone.


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## Duya

But these guys know for certain:

http://www.cipkarskasola.si/ANG/index.html

Here's also useful one:

http://www.matejinacipka.si/cipka.html


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## TriglavNationalPark

This is a tough one. I thought I had found something useful, but I see Duya beat me to it in post #6. It's almost certainly a pattern of some sort; several sources indicate this, but none of them define the pattern in a way that makes sense to me as a non-lacemaker.


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## Duya

Well, can you at least translate "z risom in dvakrat zaklekljanima zadnjima paroma (slince)"? At least as you understand it -- maybe our Nun picks up the missing links?

My guess is "with a track and twice-stitched (?) rear pairs (?)"


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## Nunty

Duya, you're fantastic! The track and twice-stitched (probably "double stitch") make perfect sense. 

Um.. which part of your translation is the "slince"?


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## sokol

I can contribute that "zakljekljati" surely means the same as German "klöppeln" (and most likely both verbs are related - either one being a German loan, or the other one being a Slovene loan ) - and "zakljekljati/klöppeln" is the verb for "lace-making" (don't know if that's the appropriate one for English) - so, duya: a "yes" to your translation "stitched" (I guess; I still do not know anything about lace-making ).


Nun-Translator said:


> Um.. which part of your translation is the "slince"?


Unfortunately, the last "(?)" - untranslated.
If we assume that "slince" (singular "slinec") is the re-engineered word from diminutive "slinček" then the translation would be "bib (garment)" but slightly "bigger" - so, probably a napkin for adults? A rectangular format, that is - I think. If that makes any sense ...


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## TriglavNationalPark

Duya said:


> Well, can you at least translate "z risom in dvakrat zaklekljanima zadnjima paroma (slince)"? At least as you understand it -- maybe our Nun picks up the missing links?
> 
> My guess is "with a track and twice-stitched (?) rear pairs (?)"


 
I know nothing about lace-making, so my attempt may be entirely wrong, but it's essentially the same as what Duya came up with:

"...with tape lace and two final (or rear) pairs that are stiched* together twice."

*The literal translation of klekljati is "to make lace", as Sokol pointed out.

By the way, I got "tape lace" by going through various lace-making sites. I believe it corresponds to the Slovenian "ris", but I'm not entirely sure.


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## Nunty

This is all fantastic, but TNP, I'll ask you the same question. Is "slince" part of your translation? Which part? Sorry.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Nun-Translator said:


> This is all fantastic, but TNP, I'll ask you the same question. Is "slince" part of your translation? Which part? Sorry.


 
The original text has "slince" in parentheses following this definition. The implication is therefore that this *is* the definition of "slince" (or, more accurately, a part of the definition).


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## Nunty

Fantastic! Thank you very, very much.


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## skye

Hi, I've been away so I didn't see this question before, but I used to make laces and "slince" is a special element in lace making. Unfortunately, I've forgotten how they're made since this was already when I was in elementary school.


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## Nunty

That is brilliant, skye, thank you! If anything comes to you, please let me know.


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## skye

No problem.  

The rest are also elements in lace making - I still vaguely remember how to make "pajki" (spiders).


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## ismabera

hi
I am new here. I am Slovenian but I do not know, what should be 'slince' (or slinca). I am sure that this is slovenian word as it is even mentioned in 'Uradni list RS' 

"*Elementi idrijske klekljarske šole*: kitica kot polnitev, rožica ali obroba; idrijski ris z ovinki in vogali; idrijski ris s sukanim risom; idrijski ris s polpremetom; idrijski ris s polnitvami; italijanski ris; polslepi ris; ris z notranjimi postavki; široki ris (križčevke, srčkovke, kugle, itd.); ris z zunanjimi postavki – 9 parov (močeradi, tulipani); rogljički; predeljeni ris; sukani ris; ažur; žagice; žabice s sukano mrežico; štručke; variante iz kitic (smrekice, podkovce, itd.); sukane *slince*; mizice; pajki; ribežn; ribice kot polnitev, rožice in obroba; stolpički – vijuge; polpremet; kugle (krogle) ... "


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