# Hindi: Expressing habitual actions



## meray_paas

Hi,

I know that I can express habitual actions as _perfective  + karna._ For example _mai panch baje utha karta hu._ But what about a phrase like this: _mai panch baje uthta rehta hu._ Whats the difference between the two?


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## lcfatima

I think the first example is not grammatical. Let's see what a native speaker says.

But the second sentence with rahna is like in English keep doing something: I keep waking up at 5 oclock. Usually this would be used contextually, like I keep waking up at 5 because noises bother me, or I keep waking up at 5 and I can't go back to sleep. It isn't really a habitual action, it is just something you keep doing.

If you want to say that you get up at 5 am *everyday*, I would just say: _mai.n *har* *roz/prati* *din* 5 baje uthta hoo.n._


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## BP.

Actually the second sentence would be wrong outside of the context Fatima put it in.

The first one however is grammatically correct and one of the ways of putting it that are getting rarer by the year. People would usually say _mae.n 5 bajaa uT-htaa huu.n_. An Urdu speaker would add _3amuuman_-usually- before 5.

m_p saahab, your speech is great but still needs more _.n_s.

Icf, does _prati_ mean day in Hindi?


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## meray_paas

_Prati_ when used as an adjective is a qualifier that says something like _each _or _every_. Same as _Har din._, but _prati din_ is Sanskrit and _har din_ is Hindi.


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## meray_paas

So lets say that I was asked the question, _Din mei kitne baje uthte ho?_ and I respond:

1)_Mai panch baje uth jaata hu_
I guess this would just be a normal way of expressing it. With no habitual actions implied.

2)_Mai panch baje utha karta hu_
Expressing that its a habit that I wake up and 5 every day.

3)_Mai panch baje uthta rehta hu_
I wake up at 5, but its not really a habit. Maybe there is some kinda external compulsion that causes this daily, maybe noise. So I have to _keep on doing_ this daily. 

So is 3) a valid response to  the question? Or am I painting a different picture than was expected with the original question?


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## BP.

1- and 2- are equivalent. 3- is physically impossible, you can't wake up twice at 5 O'clock the same day.


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## meray_paas

BelligerentPacifist, please elaborate on 3 a little more.


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## BP.

I'm sorry I can't find a tense in English to translate it into. The tense shouldn't exist, just as it doesn't in Hindi.

You're saying 'I keep on waking up at 5:00 [today]'. How could you possibly do that?


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## snowyyy

meray_paas said:


> So lets say that I was asked the question, _Din mei kitne baje uthte ho?_ and I respond:
> 
> 1)_Mai panch baje uth jaata hu_
> I guess this would just be a normal way of expressing it. With no habitual actions implied.
> 
> 2)_Mai panch baje utha karta hu_
> Expressing that its a habit that I wake up and 5 every day.
> 
> 3)_Mai panch baje uthta rehta hu_
> I wake up at 5, but its not really a habit. Maybe there is some kinda external compulsion that causes this daily, maybe noise. So I have to _keep on doing_ this daily.
> 
> So is 3) a valid response to  the question? Or am I painting a different picture than was expected with the original question?



Your third sentence is translated as : "I keep on waking up at 5", which means you wake up more than once in a single instance, this in no way means 'daily'. Sentence (1) seems to be the most appropriate to me.


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## bakshink

Let me put my bit though I am not sure if it will make things clearer or confuse them more.

Main paanch baje utthta hoon- I get up at 5 O'clock.
Main paanch baje uttha karta hoon- I(usually) get up at five. 
Main paanch baje uttha hota/rehta hoon- I am awake at 5 O'clock.
Main paanch baje utthna chahta hoon- I wish/want to get up at five.
Main paanch baje utthta ttha/uttha karta thha- I used to get up at five.
Use of karta with utthta as in "utthta karta" is wrong.


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## Faylasoof

If I may add these:

  mai.n paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa hoo.n  = mai.n paa.nch baje uTh jaataa hoo.n = I get up / rise up (wake up) at 5  - this too indicates a regular, habitual action (Present).

  Also, in Urdu and amongst some Hindiphones at least:
  mai.n _‘aam taur par (_OR _se) / ‘umooman_ paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa hoo.n  = mai.n _‘aam taur par (_OR _se) / ‘umooman_ paa.nch baje uTh jaataa hoo.n =  I usually get up / rise up (wake up) at 5

  Habitual past action:
  mai.n paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa thhaa = mai.n paa.nch baje uTh jaataa thhaa =  I used to get up at 5.
  mai.n paa.nch baje uTh rahaa thhaa = I was getting up at 5. 

  It is indeed incorrect to say "uThtaa kartaa"!  I agree with you bakshink!
 … and I can’t say about current Hindi, but in Urdu even the use of  “uThaa kartaa hoon” would be considered clumsy.


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## meray_paas

Thank you everyone. My confusion is now cleared.


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## omlick

Faylasoof said:


> If I may add these:
> 
> mai.n paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa hoo.n = mai.n paa.nch baje uTh jaataa hoo.n = I get up / rise up (wake up) at 5 - this too indicates a regular, habitual action (Present).
> 
> Also, in Urdu and amongst some Hindiphones at least:
> mai.n _‘aam taur par (_OR _se) / ‘umooman_ paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa hoo.n = mai.n _‘aam taur par (_OR _se) / ‘umooman_ paa.nch baje uTh jaataa hoo.n = I usually get up / rise up (wake up) at 5
> 
> Habitual past action:
> mai.n paa.nch baje uTh paRtaa thhaa = mai.n paa.nch baje uTh jaataa thhaa = I used to get up at 5.
> mai.n paa.nch baje uTh rahaa thhaa = I was getting up at 5.
> 
> It is indeed incorrect to say "uThtaa kartaa"! I agree with you bakshink!
> … and I can’t say about current Hindi, but in Urdu even the use of “uThaa kartaa hoon” would be considered clumsy.


 
It is not उठता करता  it is suppose to be उठा करता

That is why it sounds screwed up.  The past participle is used in the habitual construction with करना. It is always in the first singular masculine form no matter what the gender or number of the subject.  

Be aware that if the verb is जाना then the form जाया I believe is used instead of गया

In this constrruct the past participle is actually treated grammatically as a noun.  This shows that the past participle can sometimes be included in a sentence to act like a noun.


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## Faylasoof

omlick said:


> It is not उठता करता  it is suppose to be उठा करता
> 
> That is why it sounds screwed up.  The past participle is used in the habitual construction with करना. It is always in the first singular masculine form no matter what the gender or number of the subject.



I know what you are saying. What I said was:

 


 Faylasoof said:


> It is indeed incorrect to say "uThtaa kartaa"! I agree with you bakshink!
> … and I can’t say about current Hindi, but in Urdu even the use of “_uThaa kartaa hoon_” would be considered clumsy.


(Highlights added.) 

It is better to use constructions with _parNaa_ and _jaanaa_, as I use above.



> Be aware that if the verb is जाना then the form जाया I believe is used instead of गया


Not true! 

mai.n aaj subH chaar baje uTh _gayaa_!  - you can't use _jaayaa_ (or _jaanaa_) here!!

kal mujhe chaar baje uTh_ jaanaa_ hai!  - here you can use _jaanaa _as we are dealing with the future. Still can't use _jaayaa_!


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## omlick

Not true! 

mai.n aaj subH chaar baje uTh _gayaa_! - you can't use _jaayaa_ (or _jaanaa_) here!!

kal mujhe chaar baje uTh_ jaanaa_ hai! - here you can use _jaanaa _as we are dealing with the future. Still can't use _jaayaa_!





[/quote]

No, I meant with the karnaa construct, you have to use jaayaa, instead of gayaa. Of course jaayaa is not used in the second part of some compound verb combo.

मैं रोज़ जिम जाया करती हूँ = I go to the gym everyday

So why is not gayaa allowed as it is the true past participle of jaanaa? I think it has to do with the true nature of past participles, that they too can be used in a noun-like way and that gayaa for some reason is not a nominal form of jaanaa.


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## Faylasoof

omlick said:


> ....No, I meant with the karnaa construct, you have to use jaayaa, instead of gayaa. Of course jaayaa is not used in the second part of some compound verb combo.
> 
> मैं रोज़ जिम जाया करती हूँ = I go to the gym everyday
> 
> So why is not gayaa allowed as it is the true past participle of jaanaa? I think it has to do with the true nature of past participles, that they too can be used in a noun-like way and that gayaa for some reason is not a nominal form of jaanaa.



Yes, Omlick you more or less have it!
As you know <jaanaa  जाना     جانا > takes an _irregular past participle_ < gayaa    ग्या   گیا >.

mai.n gayaa = I went

It also takes <jaayaa जाया  جایا > _but only in compounds_, as you demonstrate above, so:
jaayaa karnaa  जाया कर्ना    جایا كرنا = to go habitually / constantly.

[The same idea is conveyed by: 
jaate rahnaa   जाते रह्ना    جاتے رہنا]

However, when used alone (non-compound verbal form) we use gayaa    ग्या   گیا. 

These grammatical rules have been imported from Prakrit.


PS: _I'm using an older version of Windows so all I see for Nagri is a series of boxes with numbers and Latin letters inside them. In other words I'm going blind as far as the Nagri text goes_! This text were exported from the Baraha editor. (The program works fine!)


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## amiramir

I could have sworn I have seen this somewhere, but please do correct me if I am mistaken. 

Can I use hona when talking about habitual actions: 

Jab maiN apne elders (buzurgoN?) se milta hota huN (or is mila karta huN better), maiN pairi pauna karta (hota?) huN. 

In the sense of jab bhi main unse milta huN, maiN pairi pauna karta huN. (is this an alternative as well?)

Many thanks.


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## littlepond

^ "milta hotaa hooN" would be mostly ungrammatical, esp. in your context. In some rare contexts, it could work, but even in those contexts "mil rahaa hotaa hooN" would be a better replacement.


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## amiramir

Ok, so clearly I was wrong regarding hona in such constructions. Thanks!


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## Maharaj

Oh my! such a long thread went by without having a correct answer.
"Main 5 baje uthhta hu" is common.
"Main 5 baje utha karta hu" has the same meaning but it's poetic and stylish.
"uthta rehta hu" maybe not gram' ok but it means I sometimes wake up at 5.


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## littlepond

Maharaj said:


> Oh my! such a long thread went by without having a correct answer.
> "Main 5 baje uthhta hu" is common.
> "Main 5 baje utha karta hu" has the same meaning but it's poetic and stylish.
> "uthta rehta hu" maybe not gram' ok but it means I sometimes wake up at 5.



Wrong: all sentences differ in nuances and also are grammatically fine. Post no. 5 has already offered the correct explanations for all the 3.


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## Maharaj

@littlepond #5 is correct but not complete. 
PS: Please be polite while replying.


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## littlepond

^ Nothing impolite in calling something wrong.


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