# Good morning!



## Encolpius

Hello, I've just realized that unlike *all Slavic languages* you do not use the word *ranek, rano *in greeting. Wasn't there ever a similar greeting in older Polish or isn't there any regional alternative of the dzień dobry with the word morning? Thanks.


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## Thomas1

Hello Encolpius,
It's an interesting observation, but no, we don't use any greeting with the word for morning. Usually we simply say 'dzień dobry' in the morning. We didn't use it in the past either as far as I know. I'll look around though and let you know if I find something.

EDIT: Polish is more similar to Romance languages in this respect:
English: Good morning
German: Guten Morgen
Spanish: Buenos días
French: Bonjour
Portuguese: Bom dia
I'm wondering if there was a direct equivalent of 'good morning' in Latin.

On the other hand, English for instance doesn't use the equivalent of our 'dzień dobry' (unless you're in Australia or New Zealand where it's often contracted to G'day.), but German does 'Guten Tag'. English seems to be more happy with 'good morning', 'good afternoon', 'good night' than with 'good day'.

Is it more usual to use 'good morning' or 'good day' in other Slavic languages if you want to greet someone in the morning?


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## ymar

South Slavic languages have "dobro jutro" for "good morning". It doesn't exist in Polish, but I don't know whether it used to exist in the past or not.


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## PawelBierut

Thomas1 said:


> Spanish: Buenos días


As far as I know Spanish _buenos días _is used before noon, so it should be an equivalent of English _good morning_. After 12.00 usually you can hear _buenas tardes. _It is different from Polish_ dobry wieczór,_ that I use when it gets dark or at night, and of course, you can say _dzień dobry_ after noon when it is still bright outside. So there is a slight difference between Polish: _dzień dobry/dobry wieczór _and Spanish_ buenos d__ías/buenas tardes._

More or less literal  translation of English _good morning _can be something like: _miłego ranka_ (have a nice morning), but of course you can always use it the night before, just to wish someone nice next morning.
*Edit:* I wouldn't, of course, use _Miłego ranka_ as a greeting... it would be more appropiate when saying goodbye.


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## Encolpius

Thomas1 said:


> ...we don't use any greeting with the word for morning. Usually we simply say 'dzień dobry' in the morning. We didn't use it in the past either as far as I know....



Thank you, that answer is enough.


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## Thomas1

PawelBierut said:


> As far as I know Spanish _buenos días _is used before noon, so it should be an equivalent of English _good morning_. After 12.00 usually you can hear _buenas tardes. _It is different from Polish_ dobry wieczór,_ that I use when it gets dark or at night, and of course, you can say _dzień dobry_ after noon when it is still bright outside. So there is a slight difference between Polish: _dzień dobry/dobry wieczór _and Spanish_ buenos d__ías/buenas tardes._
> [...]


Yes, that is true. However, I was thinking specifically about the expression in question 'good morning' and about the period of the day when it is used. In this respect I think it's correct to say that the Polish expression 'dzień dobry' and the Spanish 'buenos días' are the same. Sorry, if I wasn't clear.


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## Thomas1

ymar said:


> South Slavic languages have "dobro jutro" for "good morning". It doesn't exist in Polish, but I don't know whether it used to exist in the past or not.


There is a trace of this in Polish.
'Jutrzenka' is the name of the morning star or dawn. 
'Jutrzenkowy' and 'jutrzenny' can mean of or pertaining to morning.
'Jutrznia' means matins, a mass celebrated in the morning.
It is interesting that Russian uses 'dobroye utra' to mean 'good morning', but 'zawtra' to mean 'tomorrow' (_cf._ tomorrow morning 'zawtra utram'), but maybe it's just Polish that's actually different in this respect from other Slavic languages.


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## BezierCurve

I'd risk a theory that "zawtra" comes from "za-utra" (the day _after_ the one started with this "utra").


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## Ben Jamin

PawelBierut said:


> More or less literal translation of English _good morning _can be something like: _miłego ranka_ (have a nice morning), but of course you can always use it the night before, just to wish someone nice next morning.
> *Edit:* I wouldn't, of course, use _*Miłego ranka*_* as a greeting... it would be more appropiate when saying goodbye*.



And this is "Ponglish" introduced in Poland by foreign managers of large retail stores. The shop assistants have been instructed to say so.


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## Thomas1

BezierCurve said:


> I'd risk a theory that "zawtra" comes from "za-utra" (the day _after_ the one started with this "utra").


Looks credible:





> WORD: за́втра
> 
> GENERAL: укр. _за́втра_, блр. _за́ўтра_, др.-русск. _заутра_ (Поуч. Влад. Мон. и др.), ст.-слав. заоутра πρωί "завтра" (Супр.), словен. zâjtra, zâutrа "завтра утром", чеш. zejtra, zítra, слвц. zajtra; см. Преобр. I, 240; о конструкции _за_ с родительным в ст.-слав. ср. Ван-Вейк, Сб. Соболевскому 37.
> Source


At the same page, I found 'zajutrek', which I don't see in modern dictionaries of Polish, I found it in Linde (today we still have its somewhat literary derivative 'nazajutrz').


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## polish.language

There is only one phrase "dzień dobry", impossible to day "poranek dobry" or something like this, but there is "good evening" = dobry wieczór.


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## BezierCurve

> impossible to day "poranek dobry"



Well, you can always go for the lovely "miłego poranka", if you really want to.


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## dreamlike

Never in my entire and somewhat short life have I ever heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka', even coming from the shop assitants. I advise you against saying so, unless you want to sound overly affectionate and un-Polish.


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## wolfbm1

This afternoon, I heard "Dobrego popołudnia" on the radio. I could expect to hear tomorrow morning "Dobrego rana", "Dobrego poranka", "Miłego poranka" or "Dzień dobry. Miłego poranka." Why not? It sounds nice, doesn't it?


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## dreamlike

wolfbm1 said:


> This afternoon, I heard "Dobrego popołudnia" on the radio. I could expect to hear tomorrow morning "Dobrego rana", "Dobrego poranka" or "Miłego poranka." Why not? It sounds nice, doesn't it?


I for one much prefer the old good 'Miłego dnia'.


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## BezierCurve

> I for one much prefer the old good 'Miłego dnia'.



And what makes you think it's not a calque?


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## dreamlike

BezierCurve said:


> And what makes you think it's not a calque?


What are you referring to?


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## BezierCurve

To the abovementioned un-Polishness of "miłego poranka".


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## dreamlike

The mere fact that I have never heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka' is good enough reason for me to write it off as un-Polish, which can't be said for 'Miłego dnia', since I tend to hear it a couples of times a day, everyday.  Others may differ.


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## Ben Jamin

dreamlike said:


> The mere fact that I have never heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka' is good enough reason for me to write it off as un-Polish, which can't be said for 'Miłego dnia', since I tend to hear it a couples of times a day, everyday.  Others may differ.


But this is a direct translation of "have a nice day", introduced in Polish retail stores by multinational companies after 1990. The shop assistants were instructed to say it to leaving customers. Never used in Poland before as a greeting.


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## dreamlike

Ben Jamin said:


> But this is a direct translation of "have a nice day", introduced in Polish retail stores by multinational companies after 1990. The shop assistants were instructed to say it to leaving customers. Never used in Poland before as a greeting.


Even so, the usage extends further than that and 'Miłego dnia' is now used used as a greeting by regular people, not only those employed in retail stores owned by multinational companies.


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## BezierCurve

Hail to the shop assistants, the avant-garde of the evolution of the contemporary Polish.


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## dreamlike

BezierCurve said:


> Hail to the shop assistants, the avant-garde of the evolution of the contemporary Polish.


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## Thomas1

I think that 'miłego ranka' or 'miłego poranka' are rather infrequent; I, for one, have never heard them, and it will be a while before they make it into the mainstream Polish (if ever). We use the new 'miłego weekendu', 'miłego dnia', 'miłego popołudnia', 'miłego/udanego wieczoru' and the more established 'dobrej nocy' (_cf._ 'dobranoc') with relative frequency. However, 'dobrego poranka' must be limited to a certain jargon and it simply jars on my ears for this reason. Is it good to use  expressions of this type? Since language constantly evolves, there will be constant changes in it. Some of them will catch on, some not -- this is rather time-dependent. However, if something has come to be used by the majority of Poles, including, various social strata (e.g. street sweepers, shop assistants, primary school teachers, university professors), we can't simply jettison it from the Polish repertoire. I don't think 'miłego (po)ranka' falls into this category, but I believe the other expressions I mentioned do. Of course, it must be borne in mind that they should be used appropriately to the situation. 

PS: In shopping centres, I've recently been observing the use of a brand-new word for promotion, namely 'akcja'. I have never dared to use it myself, though. Anyone game for it?


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## dreamlike

The main issue I see with 'miłego poranka' is that it makes little if any sense to say so. If you see a person early in the day why not simply say 'Have a nice day', as opposed to wishing only a nice morning? It's as though you'd like your speaker to have a nice morning, and morning alone... to hell with the remainder of the day. There is no logic behind 'Miłego poranka' in Polish. What a daft thing to say! 

Thomas, I haven't seen 'akcja' in the sense of 'promotion', but it's even more daft than 'Miłego ranka/poranka'!


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## kknd

Thomas1 said:


> I think that 'miłego ranka' or 'miłego poranka' are rather infrequent; I, for one, have never heard them, and it will be a while before they make it into the mainstream Polish (if ever). We use the new 'miłego weekendu', 'miłego dnia', 'miłego popołudnia', 'miłego/udanego wieczoru' and the more established 'dobrej nocy' (_cf._ 'dobranoc') with relative frequency. However, 'dobrego poranka' must be limited to a certain jargon and it simply jars on my ears for this reason. Is it good to use  expressions of this type? Since language constantly evolves, there will be constant changes in it. Some of them will catch on, some not -- this is rather time-dependent. However, if something has come to be used by the majority of Poles, including, various social strata (e.g. street sweepers, shop assistants, primary school teachers, university professors), we can't simply jettison it from the Polish repertoire. I don't think 'miłego (po)ranka' falls into this category, but I believe the other expressions I mentioned do. Of course, it must be borne in mind that they should be used appropriately to the situation.
> 
> PS: In shopping centres, I've recently been observing the use of a brand-new word for promotion, namely 'akcja'. I have never dared to use it myself, though. Anyone game for it?


i use quite frequently _miłego dnia_, so i don't see much problem with _miłego ranka_ (btw. _miłego poranka_ is little bit less natural for me than _miłego ranka_, probably due to it's length… ); i haven't run into such use of _akcja_ yet…


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## tengounaduda

dreamlike said:


> Never in my entire and somewhat short life have I ever heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka', even coming from the shop assitants. I advise you against saying so, unless you want to sound overly affectionate and un-Polish.



well, i find your advice difficult to follow. Actually, I use the phrase ¨milego poranka¨ very frequently in SMS to my dear Polish wife, she has nevered complained about me being un-Polish in my messages.


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## dreamlike

tengounaduda said:


> well, i find your advice difficult to follow. Actually, I use the phrase ¨milego poranka¨ very frequently in SMS to my dear Polish wife, she has nevered complained about me being un-Polish in my messages.


Be it as it may, I and people I know of have never heard 'miłego poranka'. That it is used by some people comes as no surprise to me, though, bearing in mind how many people there are using Polish.  There's one thing I don't quite understand. Why not wish someone a nice day, as opposed to wishing a person only a nice morning? That's the point I brought in up in my earlier post.


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## Szkot

dreamlike said:


> There's one thing I don't quite understand. Why not wish someone a nice day, as opposed to wishing a person only a nice morning?



Functionally 'Good morning/afternoon/evening' in English is usually a greeting on meeting, not a farewell wish on parting.  It is quite logical to use the relevant part of the day.


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## dreamlike

Szkot said:


> Functionally 'Good morning/afternoon/evening' in English is usually a greeting on meeting, not a farewell wish on parting.  It is quite logical to use the relevant part of the day.


Granted, but we were speaking of 'Miłego poranka' / 'Miłego dnia', which are different from standard greetings such as 'Dzień dobry' or 'Dobry wieczór'. I don't think the same logic applies, at least it does not to me. If anything, I'd wish a person 'miłego dnia', and I stand by my opinion that 'Miłego poranka' sounds off. Others may differ, and as shown by tengouanaduda' post, some do.


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## ChipMacShmon

dreamlike said:


> Why not wish someone a nice day, as opposed to wishing a person only a nice morning? That's the point I brought in up in my earlier post.



I can imagine a situation when someone wishes 'miłego poranka' and not 'miłego dnia' if he knows that they will meet again later that day (in the afternoon).


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## dreamlike

ChipMacShmon said:


> I can imagine a situation when someone wishes 'miłego poranka' and not 'miłego dnia' if he knows that they will meet again later that day (in the afternoon).


In the situation given, I'd still use 'miłego dnia'. This might very well be my peculiarity, but I don't like 'miłego poranka' and that's it.


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