# -in and -ing



## yuechu

大家好！

I was recently thinking of how to translate: "I sometimes have difficulty pronouncing -in and -ing (differently) in Mandarin."
How would you say this in Mandarin? Would it be "我说-in和-ing这些音，有时候分不清"?

Also, is this difference only made in Northern Mandarin? (do some Southern Mandarin speakers distinguish between these two sounds too?)
For example: 新 vs. 星

Thanks!


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## listunova

just pronounce it like English. feel the difference between comin' & coming; takin' &taking. 
Some southern speakers dont perfectly pronounce 'ing' sound due to habit gained from dialect. (or just being lazy...)


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## ikuta erika

Usually,we use 前鼻音（in) 后鼻音(ing) to refer to such situation. For native speaker， we would say this sentence as “我有时候分不清前后鼻音”
I think this translation would sound more like a native speaker.
For the second question，I think young people can distinguish them,usually they are just lazy to do, as they can be understood.


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## yuechu

ikuta erika said:


> Usually,we use 前鼻音（in) 后鼻音(ing) to refer to such situation. For native speaker， we would say this sentence as “我有时候分不清前后鼻音”
> I think this translation would sound more like a native speaker.


Oh, that's exactly what I was looking for then. Thanks, Ikuta Erika!

Thanks, Listunova, too!


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## ikuta erika

yuechu said:


> Oh, that's exactly what I was looking for then. Thanks, Ikuta Erika!
> 
> Thanks, Listunova, too!


you're welcome. maybe, this sentence sounds formally. in my region(formal Chinese can be used in the whole country,but spoken one may differ in different places), if we are in a daily talking but not a writing, I would say"前鼻音、后鼻音这些，我有时分不清". because we prefer parralism in my region(Chongqing) when we talk.
also, as 前鼻音 refers to 前鼻音韵母， you can also use 前鼻韵，but I think most people speak 前鼻音.
similarly, 边音（l）鼻音（n）
平舌音（z）翘舌音（zh）
we would say"我有时候分不清边鼻音or平翘舌"


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## yuechu

Those look like useful words to know. 谢谢！

EDIT: So 分不清 can be used both for pronouncing them differently and for hearing the difference between them, right?


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## ikuta erika

yuechu said:


> Those look like useful words to know. 谢谢！
> 
> EDIT: So 分不清 can be used both for pronouncing them differently and for hearing the difference between them, right?


分不清can be used for both.but in most situation,it is used for the former. if you want to emphasize the latter,you'd better say“我有时分不清别人说的前后鼻音” use“别人”,not“你”，that sounds more polite and can express you're hard to hear,not his pronunciation's fault.


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## yuechu

Sounds good. Thanks, Ikuta Erika!


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## Messquito

我是台灣人，感覺一般台灣人並不會知道「前鼻音」跟「後鼻音」的意思。我們的老師說到台灣人的發音特色時，通常都是直接用注音來表示。
以本篇的主題來說，台灣人可能會講「我（講話）有時候分不清ㄣ和ㄥ（的音）」。我小時候老師會說「台灣人說話常常分不清ㄣ跟ㄥ這兩個音。」然後就會有小朋友舉手：「我連聽都分不清了耶！」🤣
ㄣ = n, pronounced alone: ən1
ㄥ = ng, pronounced alone: ɔŋ1
當然，這句話其實不夠準確(specific)，如本文所說，其實分不清的只有in跟ing，不是所有n跟ng。
所以如果要再具體些，可以說「我（講話）有時候分不清一,ㄣ和一,ㄥ（的音）」。
ㄧ = yi/i, pronounced alone: yi1


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## ikuta erika

Messquito said:


> 我是台灣人，感覺一般台灣人並不會知道「前鼻音」跟「後鼻音」的意思。我們的老師說到台灣人的發音特色時，通常都是直接用注音來表示。
> 以本篇的主題來說，台灣人可能會講「我（講話）有時候分不清ㄣ和ㄥ（的音）」。我小時候老師會說「台灣人說話常常分不清ㄣ跟ㄥ這兩個音。」然後就會有小朋友舉手：「我連聽都分不清了耶！」🤣
> ㄣ = n, pronounced alone: ən1
> ㄥ = ng, pronounced alone: ɔŋ1
> 當然，這句話其實不夠準確(specific)，如本文所說，其實分不清的只有in跟ing，不是所有n跟ng。
> 所以如果要再具體些，可以說「我（講話）有時候分不清一,ㄣ和一,ㄥ（的音）」。
> ㄧ = yi/i, pronounced alone: yi1


感谢指正！的确，如果要准确表达上述句子，的确应当如此翻译。
我所说的native speaker,主要是在中国大陆的日常生活，我们使用前后鼻音这一说法来指代不能区分 in/ing en/eng，在其他前后鼻音中，由于舌位变动大，几乎所有地区的人都能说出，因此通常在日常对话中我们认为这一说法就是指不能区分in/ing en/eng。因此在同来自大陆的人对话时可以这样说。
第二是为什么更习惯这样，我个人认为真正区分不了in/ing的人说出“我有时候分不清in/ing”比较困难，毕竟ta分不清。而“前后鼻音”的发音正好规避了这种情况。
用大陆方面现代语音学的解释是，ㄣ和ㄥ被成为韵尾，一被称为韵腹，区分不了in/ing实际上是区分不了韵尾导致的，而其他区分不了前后鼻音的情况往往是韵腹发音音位不对导致的。比如我们这边很有名的台湾公益片中的一句话“让我康康（看看）”，听起来的结果像是没有区分韵尾，但却是由于没有 区分ㄤ和ㄢ的韵腹音位导致的。
所以，在我们日常的理解中，将in/ing的不区分视为“不分前后音“，这种感性认识是有相应根据的。


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## Messquito

你講得沒錯，的確是韻尾部分導致的。台灣當然也是大部分人不會特別去提i的角色。

從另一方面來講，以我的了解，其實韻腹也有一點影響力，閉口音(如i)因為嘴巴較閉合，在發韻腹時，舌跟本來就已經很接近軟齶，ng的音也是舌根抬起靠近軟齶，所以更容易混淆。
像在台灣，其實in/ing是最多人分不清的，en/eng少一點（但也蠻多的），an/ang這個比較特殊，其實以現代年輕人的發音來說，這兩者的母音已經不太一樣了，an的a位置比較前面，ang的a位置比較後面，所以只有少數人分不清。（也許這有個發展的歷程，有空的話我來做個研究。）


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## hx1997

ikuta erika said:


> 区分不了in/ing实际上是区分不了韵尾导致的


个人感觉北方一些人in和ing的韵腹（如果我没理解错韵腹的意思的话🤣）也不一样，有的会把ing发成类似ieng的音，搞得我现在不太清楚普通话ing到底是怎么发 



yuechu said:


> do some Southern Mandarin speakers distinguish between these two sounds too?



It really depends on the speaker. Older speakers (from 南方) often have trouble distinguishing them (or they just won't bother learning how to speak correctly a 北方 tongue that is not their own). Younger ones generally do better in this respect, but when they try to pronounce these sounds differently, they may make mistakes that they don't know (i.e., they do pronounce them differently, but not in the correct/standard manner).


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