# Would you mind if I smoke/ I smoked?



## Ume

Hello.

1) Would you mind if I smoked?
2) Would you mind my smoking?
3) Would you mind me smoking?

My comments are:
1) This is perfectly acceptable. I like its style.
2) This is acceptable, but I don't its style.
3) This is acceptable, but I don't its style.

Please comment if you want.


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## roxcyn

They all sound great to me.


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## MarcB

Umeboshi said:
			
		

> Hello.
> 
> 1) Would you mind if I smoked?
> 2) Would you mind my smoking?
> 3) Would you mind me smoking?
> 
> My comments are:
> 1) This is perfectly acceptable. I like its style.
> 2) This is acceptable, but I don't its style.
> 3) This is acceptable, but I don't its style.
> 
> Please comment if you want.


1) 1
2) 2
3)3


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## mateitop

They all sound fine. Unless you're a non-smoker.


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## CAMullen

I think 2 is more grammatically correct than 3, but less commonly used in conversation - at least in AE.


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## panjandrum

(1) sounds natural, the others may be correct, but sound strange.

The most common question, around here, would have been "Do you mind if I smoke?"


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## jokker

panjandrum said:
			
		

> The most common question, around here, would have been "*Do you mind if I smoke*?"


I am so glad to see this.  "Do you mind if I smoke?" is the one I know. Is there any difference between it and "Would you mind if I *smoked*?" Do they both mean the same thing?


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## timpeac

1) is fine. 2), to my ears, is a bit more colloquial than 1).

3) hmmm, it is grammatically correct but I find it strange here. I think I probably prefer the direct object "me" rather than an object phrase "my smoking" generally, so it is probably just to do with that.


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## Brioche

jokker said:
			
		

> I am so glad to see this.  "Do you mind if I smoke?" is the one I know. Is there any difference between it and "Would you mind if I *smoked*?" Do they both mean the same thing?


 
The conditional  _would _form is used to soften the request,
and thus make it more polite.


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## jokker

Brioche said:
			
		

> The conditional _would _form is used to soften the request,
> and thus make it more polite.


Thank you, Brioche.


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## suzzzenn

If you were taking a grammar exam, #3 would be incorrect. You need to use the possessive pronoun before the -ing form. I generally follow that rule when speaking, but not always.

Susan


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## maxiogee

As a reformed smoker I find myself often tempted to use the line I heard once on television....
Q: "Do you mind if I smoke?"
A: "Do you mind if I f@rt?"


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## TrentinaNE

In the case of


> 1) Would you mind if I smoked?


does the "if clause" require the subjunctive? It seems to in the declarative form: _You would mind if I were to smoke / were I to smoke._
So as a question, should it be _Would you mind if I were to smoke?_

And if so, is _Would you mind if I smoke? (not smoked)_ just a shortcut that leaves out _were to_?

Elizabeth


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## LV4-26

1. Do you mind if I smoke?
2. Would you mind if I smoked?

To me, #2 seems to suggest the possibility that you have no intention to smoke. You may even be a non-smoker. Almost as if you were asking the question out of sheer curiosity : "let's just imagine it. How would you react?" 
I'm not saying it's the only possible interpretation, but I have the impression it could be one.

What do you natives think?


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## Magixo

Brioche said:
			
		

> The conditional _would _form is used to soften the request,
> and thus make it more polite.


 
No, I disagree with you! _Would _is here a part of the conditional clause rather than a polite request. It is quite different from the clause:

_Would you mind telling me if you have been an actress?_

OR

_Would you mind telling me if you were acting in Paris in 1975?_

that are classical examples of polite questions. _Would you mind if I smoked? _is, according to the 'standard' British grammar, a 'pure' conditional clause type two.

Sincerely,
Magixo


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## TrentinaNE

Magixo said:
			
		

> _Would you mind if I smoked? _is, according to the 'standard' British grammar a 'pure' conditional clause type three.


I agree with Brioche that in current spoken English, "Would you mind..." is perceived to be gentler (less blunt) than "Do you mind..." and hence, marginally more polite. 

I'm also not sure about your counterexample as I'd say that "Would you mind telling me..." is gentler than "Do you mind telling me..."  

Elizabeth


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## panjandrum

We are playing linguistic games here, with a very mundane question that is never subject to anything like this degree of analysis.

To be real, any of ...
Would you mind if I smoked?
Do you mind if I smoke?
Is it OK if I smoke?
... and a million ways of asking the same thing, all mean exactly the same thing 99.9% of the time.

They mean that you would like to smoke and you are asking if I am likely to object.
The element of courtesy, gentleness, or other qualitative aspect of the question comes entirely in the way the question is asked and the extent to which the listener feels that their opinion is genuinely being sought.

I have sat across the table from someone who has asked one of these questions while at the same time taking out the cigarette packet and the lighter and pulling the ashtray from the shelf. That is NOT a courteous request, no matter what words are used.

A polite "Can I smoke?" that sounds as if you care what I say, is better than any grammatically correct question associated with the wrong non-verbal signals.

LV4-26 has raised the interesting question that *would you mind if I smoked *could be an entirely hypothetical question. It could. And again, I'd recognise this immediately from the context, the intonation and the body language.


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## jokker

Magixo said:
			
		

> No, I disagree with you! _Would _is here a part of the conditional clause rather than a polite request. It is quite different from the clause:
> 
> _Would you mind telling me if you have been an actress?_
> 
> OR
> 
> _Would you mind telling me if you were acting in Paris in 1975?_
> 
> that are classical examples of polite questions. _Would you mind if I smoked? _is, according to the 'standard' British grammar, a 'pure' conditional clause type two.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Magixo


I agree with you 100%.  I didn't know this about two months ago.

I also agree with LV4-26's interpretation:


			
				LV4-26 said:
			
		

> 1. Do you mind if I smoke?
> 2. Would you mind if I smoked?
> 
> To me, #2 seems to suggest the possibility that you have no intention to smoke. You may even be a non-smoker. Almost as if you were asking the question out of sheer curiosity : "let's just imagine it. How would you react?"


 
Just my little thought.


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## shr90602

Would you mind if I smoked?  vs
Would you mind if I smoke?

I don't really hear any difference in these meanings.  But I am wondering this:

I thought that "would" would have required the past tense "smoked"  being that at first glance it appears to be a "conditional" sentence.  Could it be that since these two sentences have apparently similar meanings, they are not really conditionals but rather a courtesy or polite way of asking permission and therefore the present or past is acceptable?

I just seems that it is odd that that both smoke and smoked work in the examples.  Thanks.


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## mimike

Suzzzann, I am a Hungarian, but I do know that Would you mind me/my smoking? are both correct forms. You may not use them very often, but they are polite and absolutely acceptable. Even in a grammar test.


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## Twoflower

shr90602 said:


> Would you mind if I smoked? vs
> Would you mind if I smoke?
> 
> I don't really hear any difference in these meanings. But I am wondering this:
> 
> I thought that "would" would have required the past tense "smoked" being that at first glance it appears to be a "conditional" sentence. Could it be that since these two sentences have apparently similar meanings, they are not really conditionals but rather a courtesy or polite way of asking permission and therefore the present or past is acceptable?
> 
> I just seems that it is odd that that both smoke and smoked work in the examples. Thanks.


 
I don't think that they do both work. "Would you mind if I smoke?" is grammatically incorrect. It is the grammatical construction used that determines the appropriate tense and/or mood, even if the meaning is the same or similar.


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## dn88

In theory, also "Will you mind if I smoke?" would be grammatically correct. I suppose it's not very common, but certainly "Would you..." seems much more polite.


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## mimike

To my ear 'Would you mind if I smoke?' does not sound correct grammatically. As you say it seems to be a conditional, and I think in this case it does work as a conditional sentence. I think if you use 'would' you have to use the unreal past in the 'if clause', otherwise you would have to say: Do you mind if I smoke? However, I am not a native speaker, so my solutions may be very rescricted to what you can find in a book on descriptive grammar.


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## timpeac

mimike said:


> To my ear 'Would you mind if I smoke?' does not sound correct grammatically. As you say it seems to be a conditional, and I think in this case it does work as a conditional sentence. I think if you use 'would' you have to use the unreal past in the 'if clause', otherwise you would have to say: Do you mind if I smoke? However, I am not a native speaker, so my solutions may be very rescricted to what you can find in a book on descriptive grammar.


I see your point from the grammatical point of view - but I can say that I think "would you mind if I smoke?" is more usual than "will you mind if I smoke?" or "would you mind if I smoked?".


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## mimike

Thanks, Veni, I have learnt something again.  You see, when the kids ask me about a point in grammar and I explain it to them, next day they come up to me with things exactly like this. I just spread out my arms and think: to hell with grammar. And I say: well, yeah, you can say a lot of things, but still, try to be as accurate as possible. English seems to be a very flexible language, it's almost impossible to keep up with its changes.


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## mimike

Sorry, I think I wanted to address my message to Timpeac, not Veni Vidi Vici.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

I would think that the form "smoke" in "Would you mind if I smoke?" is a subjunctive, and correct.

Of course, if one used the subjunctive here, one would also use it in the response "_Smoke?_ _I wouldn't mind if you burn!_"


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## timpeac

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> I would think that the form "smoke" in "Would you mind if I smoke?" is a subjunctive, and correct.
> 
> Of course, if one used the subjunctive here, one would also use it in the response "_Smoke?_ _I wouldn't mind if you burn!_"


I think, though, that you would expect a past subjunctive. To take another verb, "would you mind if I shot him?" sounds much better to my ears than "would you mind if I shoot him?" although all I have done is change the verb.

I wonder if there is some subtle nuance about the choice of present or past - the past being more theoretical and the present being used when you are literally about to do something?


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## mimike

I may be a pain in the neck, but 'Would you mind if I smoke? is not, in any way, correct grammatically. You may use it in informal language, but either it is subjunctive or conditional, or whatever, it is NOT correct. Full stop.


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## Saurabh

timpeac said:


> I think, though, that you would expect a past subjunctive. To take another verb, "would you mind if I shot him?" sounds much better to my ears than "would you mind if I shoot him?" although all I have done is change the verb.
> 
> I wonder if there is some subtle nuance about the choice of present or past - the past being more theoretical and the present being used when you are literally about to do something?


 

Good explanation.

However, which one is grammatically correct?
I believe " Would you mind if I smoked?" is than "Would you mind if I smoke?"
However, both seem fine to my ears based on your above explanation.


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## Twoflower

Saurabh said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> However, which one is grammatically correct?
> I believe " Would you mind if I smoked?" is than "Would you mind if I smoke?"
> However, both seem fine to my ears based on your above explanation.


 
'Would' is the preterite of 'will'. Therefore:

Do you mind if I smoke?
Would you mind if I smoked?

Are both correct, but "Would you mind if I smoke?" is not.


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## timpeac

Saurabh said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> However, which one is grammatically correct?
> I believe " Would you mind if I smoked?" is than "Would you mind if I smoke?"
> However, both seem fine to my ears based on your above explanation.


"Grammatically correct" is quite a loaded term I'm afraid. Grammar is only a human construct to help describe what they see language doing. In some cases it's not so much correct or incorrect as acceptable or not, or fashionable or not.

In this case both forms are used by native speakers, and there may well be a difference in the nuance of meaning between them. However, it seems that some will criticise "smoke" in such a sentence so if you want to have the least contentious answer it is certainly "would you mind if I smoked?"


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## spatula

timpeac said:
			
		

> "Grammatically correct" is quite a loaded term I'm afraid. Grammar is only a human construct to help describe what they see language doing. In some cases it's not so much correct or incorrect as acceptable or not, or fashionable or not.
> 
> In this case both forms are used by native speakers, and there may well be a difference in the nuance of meaning between them. However, it seems that some will criticise "smoke" in such a sentence so if you want to have the least contentious answer it is certainly "would you mind if I smoked?"


 
Hallelujah. timpeac - this is the most rational viewpoint I've read.


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## Saurabh

timpeac said:


> ]"Grammatically correct" is quite a loaded term I'm afraid. Grammar is only a human construct to help describe what they see language doing. In some cases it's not so much correct or incorrect as acceptable or not, or fashionable or not[/COLOR].
> 
> In this case both forms are used by native speakers, and there may well be a difference in the nuance of meaning between them. However, it seems that some will criticise "smoke" in such a sentence so if you want to have the least contentious answer it is certainly "would you mind if I smoked?"


 
Hi there!

hmmmmmmmmmm, such a wonderful explanation. I was ,somewhere in my mind, sure that it would be "would you mind if I smoked?"
Thanks.


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## LV4-26

I may be slightly dishonest in what follows, in so far as I'm not totally convinced of the immaculate  correctness  of "_would you mind if I smoke_?". Well, let's say I'm just sort of trying this on you (as I often do).

Consider this;
- _Would_ is often used as a polite form of _will_.
right? (Will you please come this way / would you please come this way)

Now, have a look at this
(1) _Can you shut the door when you leave?
(2) Could you shut the door when you leave?
_

In (2), _could _has been substituted to _can_, in order to add some more courtesy to the query. _Leave _has been left unchanged, i.e. present simple in both cases.

Why then, should _smoke_ necessarily shift to _smoked_ when _will_ shifts to the "more polite" _would_?


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## timpeac

LV4-26 said:


> I may be slightly dishonest in what follows, in so far as I'm not totally convinced of the immaculate  correctness  of "_would you mind if I smoke_?". Well, let's say I'm just sort of trying this on you (as I often do).
> 
> Consider this;
> - _Would_ is often used as a polite form of _will_.
> right? (Will you please come this way / would you please come this way)
> 
> Now, have a look at this
> (1) _Can you shut the door when you leave?
> (2) Could you shut the door when you leave?
> _
> 
> In (2), _could _has been substituted to _can_, in order to add some more courtesy to the query. _Leave _has been left unchanged, i.e. present simple in both cases.
> 
> Why then, should _smoke_ necessarily shift to _smoked_ when _will_ shifts to the "more polite" _would_?


I must admit that I'm finding it hard to make parallels between what you put here and the original question because you have "when" and the original has "if" and that makes a very big difference. I don't think there is anything to reproach (grammatically) in_ would you mind when I smoke?_ = please would you mind at the future time that I smoke. However, the sense of that is so bizarre that it obscures a consideration of the grammar. Changing it to _would you tell me when he arrives?_ shows it's fine.


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## LV4-26

You may well be right in this, Tim. Indeed, it seems the "if" in the original sentence does make a difference, because it adds a conditional aspect which, consciously or not, prompts use of a (virtual?) subjunctive.


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## Saurabh

LV4-26 said:


> I may be slightly dishonest in what follows, in so far as I'm not totally convinced of the immaculate  correctness of "_would you mind if I smoke_?". Well, let's say I'm just sort of trying this on you (as I often do).
> 
> Consider this;
> - _Would_ is often used as a polite form of _will_.
> right? (Will you please come this way / would you please come this way)
> 
> Now, have a look at this
> (1) _Can you shut the door when you leave?_
> _(2) Could you shut the door when you leave?_
> 
> 
> In (2), _could _has been substituted to _can_, in order to add some more courtesy to the query. _Leave _has been left unchanged, i.e. present simple in both cases.
> 
> Why then, should _smoke_ necessarily shift to _smoked_ when _will_ shifts to the "more polite" _would_?


 
I would like to add my views as:

Generally, conditional sentences may be expressed in either of these ways:
1) Will you mind if I (_am to_) smoke?
2) Would you mind if I (_were to_) smoke? or it may (in short) be said as
Would you mind if I smoked?
The sentence 1) shows my action is close to be real happening (i.e. I might or might not smoke). On the other hand, sentence 2) indicates my action is unlikely to happen in real (i.e. I do not think so I will smoke). 
Since the original sentence is meant to convey a request, we may notice that later is more humble than formal sentence. In the later sentence, speaker is indicating though he/she does not think he/she is going to smoke but what if he/she does? On the contrary ,former sentence indicates more clearity of action i.e to smoke.The former is like affirmative(i.e. I'm going to smoke) and later is negative( though I'm not going to but what if I 'm).

So, "_Would you mind if I smoked?"_ will do best for me as I would merely see it as a short form of _"Would you mind if I were to smoke?"_ Though in speech we tend to omit _"were to_" and say it as _"Would you mind if I smoke?_ However, I feel grammatically it would be _"Would you mind if I smoked?"._

Hope the above explanation helps!
Cheers, Saurabh.


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## Arrius

Whether the sentence *would you mind if I smoke?* is, as *TrentiaNE* says, a short-cut or, as I would put it, possibly elliptical (which I greatly doubt), it is the form I would have used most naturally as a former (cigar) smoker. There may be an objection to the sequence of tenses, but it _sounds_ perfectly alright to me, and I am surprised that only one forero has mentioned it up to now.


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## panjandrum

I am intending to smoke, but before I do so, I want to know how you will react.
Will you mind if I smoke?
Conditional type (1)

I am a smoker, but I am not intending to smoke.  I am curious about how you would react if I changed my mind.
Would you mind if I smoked?
Conditional type (2)

I am not a smoker so there is absolutely no possibility that I will smoke.  Still, I am curious about how you would react if I were a smoker.
Would you mind if I were to smoke?
Conditional type (2)
_"Were to" can be used in the future to emphasize that the conditional form is extremely unlikely or unthinkably horrible. _
Source - http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/wereto.html


Arrius said:


> Whether the sentence *would you mind if I smoke?* is, as *TrentiaNE* says, a short-cut or, as I would put it, possibly elliptical (which I greatly doubt), it is the form I would have used most naturally as a former (cigar) smoker. There may be an objection to the sequence of tenses, but it _sounds_ perfectly alright to me, and I am surprised that only one forero has mentioned it up to now.


This comes back to the real world 
My equivalent of Arrius's natural sentence was given in post #6, "_Do you mind if I smoke?_"


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## Peter Tran

*Would you mind if I smoke/ I smoked?*

Due to grammar rule, I only think of the sentence "would you mind if I smoked" but I still have seen some cases written down " Would you mind if smoke?" Is that accepted? Please do me a favor.


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## perpend

I would understand: Would you mind if I smoked?  I think it's the subjunctive mood, and wouldn't consider it wrong.


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## Thomas Tompion

Copyright said:


> Both are wrong. _Would you like it if I smoked?_ would be correct ... but tell us what you would like this sentence to mean -- what situation you would use it in.


 The COCA is full of examples of _Would you mind if_'s and they are followed some by past tenses and some by present tenses, without any particular obvious logic that I can see:

Here are two of these examples -

_She was thinking hard. She seemed excited. " Would you mind if I asked you some questions? " she said. 

We're from the Newman Center. Would you mind if we ask you five survey questions? 

_These suggest that both forms are common enough in the language - something I'd say was true of BE too.  The conventional _Would you mind if I asked_ observes the sequence of tenses of type II conditionals (simple past in the if-clause, conditional in the main clause), and it's this which causes people to say that the version with the present in the if-clause is incorrect.

However I suspect that considerations of immediacy (the present seems more appropriate when the action is going to be immediate, perhaps), and informatlity so often cause people to use the present that it has become hard to label it incorrect.


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## Pertinax

Peter Tran said:


> *Would you mind if I smoke/ I smoked?*



I agree with Mr TT that both forms are grammatically sound.  The sentence with "smoked" is a remote conditional: the modal preterite "smoked" in the "if"-clause requires an auxiliary like "would" in the main clause.

However, the converse is false:  the presence of "would" in the main clause does not necessarily require either a modal preterite or a subjunctive in the "if"-clause. The sentence with "smoke" uses "would" as a polite form in a normal present tense, and the sentence is an open conditional with a present-tense verb in each clause.

Normally a remote conditional and an open conditional are fairly far apart in meaning, but in this case they are making the same request and differ only in nuance.  The remote conditional merely presents the request in a slightly more diffident manner, almost as if it is idle speculation.


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## wandle

Personally (if I were a smoker) I would say either 'Do you mind if I smoke?' or 'Would you mind if I smoked?'

The combination 'Would you mind if I smoke?' certainly occurs, but to me seems illogical on the one hand, and over-diffident on the other.


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## Thomas Tompion

To look at three of these forms:

1.  _Would you mind if I smoked? _- could be inflected to raise my smoking as a very remote possibility, even a  hypothetical of the type _I don't smoke but would you mind if I did? _I think this is probably the language of polite people, anxious not to impose on others.

2.  _Would you mind if I smoke? _- is presenting my smoking as a very real immediate possibility - 1. could be that too, of course - and the conditional form makes it easier for the other person to say he does mind than in

3.  _Do you mind if I smoke?_ - here we have left the gentleness of the conditional form, and the question is almost expecting the answer _no_, and certainly making it quite hard for the other person to object.

I ought to add the caveat that, as in most of these phrases, what is appropriate in some circumstances is less so in others.  Much of the meaning and colour of such questions depends on the tone of voice and the manner of the speaker.  We mustn't try to place too much weight on the words alone.


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