# Moirai, Moirae



## river

In Greek mythology The Fates are also known as Moirai, Moirae. One source translates the Greek word _Moirai_ 'which see'; another translates it 'apportioners.'  What is the correct translation of Moirai, Moirae?

Thanks


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## Tetina

You are right about the _Moirai_ which were the 3 mythological Fates. The noun _moira_ meant the "share", the "portion" and that is relevant with _Moirai_ for they were the powers that decided the "share" of each person in life. 
Now, the verb "mira" in modern greek means "look" and it is used in a more poetic way. 
I'm not sure (maybe others can help us in this) if it comes from Ancient Greek or which is the root of this verb (my guess is that it comes from Latin languages) but the orthography of both is different (cf. μοίρα, μίρα).


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## anthodocheio

Tetina said:


> Now, the verb "mira" in modern greek means "look" and it is used in a more poetic way.
> I'm not sure (maybe others can help us in this) if it comes from Ancient Greek or which is the root of this verb (my guess is that it comes from Latin languages) but the orthography of both is different (cf. μοίρα, μίρα).


 
Is "mira" Greek?

I believe that all these definitions serve for what the noun _μοίρα_ means.


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## anthodocheio

Βρήκα αυτό και μου άρεσε 

Τετίνα τί εννοείς με το μίρα-κοίτα; Σπάω το κεφάλι μου...


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## Vagabond

anthodocheio said:


> Τετίνα τί εννοείς με το μίρα-κοίτα; Σπάω το κεφάλι μου...


Κι εγώ... το μόνο σχετικό που ξέρω είναι το "τήρα" που λένε στο χωριό μου (από το "παρατήρα", ίσως..;), και το ισπανικό mirar... ίσως είναι τοπικό..;


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## river

Thank you, Tetina.

Anthodocheio and Vagabond - I don't speak Greek. Looks like you're having a good time, though.


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## Vagabond

river said:


> Thank you, Tetina.
> 
> Anthodocheio and Vagabond - I don't speak Greek. Looks like you're having a good time, though.


Sorry about that - you're right. We were just asking Tetina about what she said that "mira" in modern Greek means "look". Neither of us has heard of it, so I was wondering if it is only used locally in some specific dialect.


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## river

As I think about this, if fate is as the ancients believed predetermined or non-random, it stands to reason that the future can be 'seen,'  hence the prophetic deities, the Moirai.

I got the "see" translation from Adrian Room's _Who's Who in Classical Mythology_:

"The Latin word Fata is a plural that is probably an adaptation of the singular word fatum, meaning 'that which is spoken.'  The Greeks called the the Fates *Moirai* (which see)."


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## Vagabond

Check this out: according to this, moira (parca in Latin), "they assinged to every person his or her fate or share in the scheme of things. Their name means 'Parts', 'Shares' or 'Alottted Portions'."

Merriam-Webster says pretty much the same thing: "Etymology: Greek, from plural of _moira_ lot, fate; akin to Greek _meros_ part "

Wikipedia translates Moirai as "the apportioners".

Monstropedia (I had no clue such a thing existed, I swear!) says "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny and as a personification "the deity who assigns to every man his fate or his share," or the Fates. (in Ancient Greek *Μοῖραι* — the "*apportioners*", often called the *Fates*) "

I'd stick with the "sharing" etymological version. Plus, I can't think of an ancient Greek verb with the μοιρ- theme that means look or see (I might be missing it, in which case I'd be interested myself to see what it would be).

PS: Just realised that the etymology link anthodocheio gave was in greek. It says pretty much the same thing: part, portion, etc - all alternative definitions have to do with sharing, or being part of a whole.


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## ireney

The verb  is μείρομαι (meiromai) = taking my part/share says wiktionary but since I don't have any of my dictionaries around I cannot verify this. They do seem connected but I am not so well versed in etymology to be sure whether the epsilon iota can be turned into omikron  iota or not.


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## Vagabond

ireney said:


> The verb is μείρομαι (meiromai) = taking my part/share says wiktionary but since I don't have any of my dictionaries around I cannot verify this. They do seem connected but I am not so well versed in etymology to be sure whether the epsilon iota can be turned into omikron iota or not.


Didn't it, though? I mean, look at modern Greek and μοιράζω... 

(O Τριανταφυλλίδης λέει για το μοιράζω: [ελνστ. ή μσν. _μοιράζω _< ελνστ. _μοιρ(ῶ) _μεταπλ. _-άζω _με βάση το συνοπτ. θ. _μοιρασ-_] - οπότε θα έλεγα είναι safe to assume ότι το νωρίτερο στα ελληνιστικά χρόνια το "οι" υπήρχε στα της μοιρασιάς...)


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## Tetina

> Τετίνα τί εννοείς με το μίρα-κοίτα; Σπάω το κεφάλι μου...


[/quote]

Trying to unerstand how "moirai" was translated as "which see" I thought maybe is some expression not in common use in Greek. I had the impression that I had seen it in some poetic expressions (where you know... ποιητική αδεία ... ). Maybe I'm wrong. Really, how do you explain _moirai_ as "which see"?


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## wonderment

Translators sometimes translate loosely without regard for the literal meaning of words. You can think of the Moirai as prophetic goddesses who can see the future, thus Moirai "which see." But Moirai as the "apportioners" is closer to the etymology of the original Greek (as noted by all above). 

Moirai is the plural of Moira--portion, share, allotment, and by extension fate. In Greek mythology, the three Moira sisters were: Klotho (the spinner), Lachesis (the one who measures), and Atropos (the one who can not be turned away, a euphemism for death). At a person's birth, Klotho is said to spin his/her thread of life, Lachesis measures it, and Klotho cuts it. So you have the Moirai as literally "the apportioners" of one's destiny/fate. 

Hope this helps, though I'm afraid I may be too late.  Such is my fate...alas.


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## parakseno

wonderment said:


> In Greek mythology, the three Moira sisters were: Klotho (the spinner), Lachesis (the one who measures), and Atropos (the one who can not be turned away, a euphemism for death). At a person's birth, Klotho is said to spin his/her thread of life, Lachesis measures it, and Klotho cuts it.



I guess you meant Atropos (Ἄτροπος) cuts it. (also according to your translation of the names)


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## Cagey

river said:


> I got the "see" translation from Adrian Room's _Who's Who in Classical Mythology_:
> 
> "The Latin word Fata is a plural that is probably an adaptation of the singular word fatum, meaning 'that which is spoken.'  The Greeks called the the Fates *Moirai* (which see)."



(*Which see*) in this context is not a translation.  It is telling you to look under "Moirae", for the explanation there.  That is, it means something like, "_Moirae_ is the section that you should see."


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## wonderment

Na'sai kala.  

(parakseno, is this a proper use of na'sai kala?, and yes, you caught me evading Atropos   )


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