# Writing Kanji



## Myuu

Hey everyone, 

I've been making an effort to practice writing more kanji recently, but I think my handwriting looks childish and not like how a native would write it, like I'm trying too hard to make the lines all perfect. I've seen a few native handwriting samples and the kanji seem to differ quite a bit from person to person.

Online I see kanji in different styles as well, and this throws me off sometimes because it leaves me unsure of the correct way to write it. One line may be longer than another in one style, but shorter than the other in another style. When I'm analyzing the kanji and trying to write it, I'm not sure what style to follow. 

So, to sum this up I have three questions.
1. Is there a standard style that is used to learn kanji and if there is, what is it called, or where can I find it? 
2. How "perfect" do the characters have to look? Are they considered OK as long as you can read them? So if I try to sort of stylize them in my own way, would that be acceptable? 
3. Any tips on making the characters look less like little kids wrote them, besides a lot of practice? For example, is there a preferred way to hold the pen? Is it better to write with your fingers and wrist, or your arm and shoulders?


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## Demurral

Hi, i'll try to answer your questions!!

1. Maybe I'm making a mistake but is this what you are looking for??http://japanese.about.com/library/blkodarchives.htm
They show you also the stroke order. The style is very "standard" and readable. (it looks waaaaay better than mine, and mine is "acceptable for natives".^^

2. You should not try to "copy" the Word (tm)-etc fonts of kanji, they will look "artificial". 
Try to imitate somehow those in the page I have recommended you (or the like -- google: japanese, how to write kanji) and reading/writing as much as it is possible. The more you write and read, the more "own-stylish" will become your kanjis, and the more kanjis you will know "passively".(there are lots of kanjis I can't write or remember, but that I can read).

3. When writing kanjis you have to write as you would when writing the alphabet. Just that.(The position and that sort of think affect only when writting with brush, or will affect as much as they do when writing English). I think that the only way is practice, the more you repeat the kanjis, and the more kanjis you learn will make your style grow, and therefore, look more adult.


See you!


Just a side note: If you have "ugly" letter when writing in English, somehow you will have ugly letter in Spanish. If you have round letter, your kanjis will be "roundish". _Almost _proved!


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## Noamoxkaltontli

1. There is one handwritten standard or at least base form for the kanji. You can find it in most japanese language learning books. I can recommend some if you like.

2. There are a lot of small mistakes one can make when stylizing the characters, this can render the characters unreadable or simply wrong in a test (wether from your local language center, or the Standarized Kanji Proficiency Test), so you are better off sticking to the books and what your teacher tells you.

3. I don't think so. Practice makes perfect. But there are some tips I can give you: Follow the stroke order religiously, use a pencil, practice on cuadriculated paper and have an image of the standard form of the kanji at hand.


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## Myuu

Thanks for your response you two! 
I did a little bit of research and found that the standard form of kanji is called 楷書 and the semi-cursive is 行書. From what I gather, 楷書 is taught in schools and children learn these first. Then as they get older, they develop their own cursive style which becomes 行書. I'm assuming the cursive style is the most commonly used? 

So if I learn 楷書 well enough to write it quickly, it'll sort of just become 行書 on its own as the cursiveness comes naturally when you write fast. Is that right?


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## Noamoxkaltontli

I am used to hearing 楷書 and 行書 when talking about Chinese. 
Children learn and are expected to write in standard form. It is true people develop a kind of cursive-like handwriting from writing 楷書 fast, but you want to learn the standard forms anyway.

Even if you write fast, you shouldn't deviate from the standard forms enough to the degree where you are writing in 行書... This is my opinion, I guess it is debatable.


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## travis1085

Stroke order is top to bottom, left to right.. I'm sure you knew that. I find it useful though, made my writing look more natural. Especially with kana.


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## masatom

Hi.
Please look at your fonts of your word processor.
Do you know fonts?
For example, in English letter there are many fonts, like Century, Times New Roman, Gulim,etc.
I think you'll see many fonts in Japnanese font, too.
Then you choose fonts including 教科書体　or 正楷書体.
And you type your wanting kannji, and print it.
And you will see the style of the kanji, which is your best teacher.

The most often used letter font is 明朝 or 明朝体.
But 明朝体　is not the proper style when you write with your pen.

Thanks.


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## palomnik

I assume that you are learning kanji on your own, i.e., without a teacher. Otherwise, the answer to your questions is to slavishly imitate how your teacher writes, and slavishly follow what your teacher advises. The omission of pressing down at certain points or putting a hook at the end of a vertical line can cause a confusion of meaning. In handwriting any language, whether it's English, Arabic or Japanese, there are certain subtle conventions involving what is an acceptable variation and what is not. The site that Demurral gives is an excellent place to work from, and I would use it as a guide. 

Do NOT use sites that teach how to write Chinese, because (believe it or not) there are marked differences between the two languages on how the characters are handwritten.  Chinese tend to use more abbreviations in the kanji (not surprisingly, since they have to write EVERYTHING in kanji), which the Japanese find, I think, objectionable.  Chinese, on the other hand, find Japanese handwriting to be a bit sloppy, with too many rounded edges.


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## lammn

palomnik said:


> Chinese tend to use more abbreviations in the kanji (not surprisingly, since they have to write EVERYTHING in kanji), which the Japanese find, I think, objectionable.


 
What do you meant by "abbreviations"? 



palomnik said:


> Chinese, on the other hand, find Japanese handwriting to be a bit sloppy, with too many rounded edges.


 
It is the other way round. I saw my Japanese teacher (a native Japanese) write every strokes _too straightly_ when compare with Chinese people's standard.

Also, certain strokes are not allowed to go over another stroke in Japanese writing. An example is the character 白.  In Japanese writing, the first slopy stroke is not allowed to go over the second stroke. In Chinese writing, however, the first slopy stroke should be long and slopy enough to go across the second stroke. It looks wierd in the eyes of Chinese why the Japanese write the first stroke so short (and not slopy enough) but then my Japanese teacher thinks it is a きれい way of writing.


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## palomnik

lammn said:


> What do you meant by "abbreviations"? .


 
I mean that I generally find that Chinese tend to use more conventions associated with running hand (行書) and grass writing (草書) than Japanese do, at least in my experience. 




lammn said:


> It is the other way round. I saw my Japanese teacher (a native Japanese) write every strokes _too straightly_ when compare with Chinese people's standard.
> 
> Also, certain strokes are not allowed to go over another stroke in Japanese writing. An example is the character 白. In Japanese writing, the first slopy stroke is not allowed to go over the second stroke. In Chinese writing, however, the first slopy stroke should be long and slopy enough to go across the second stroke. It looks wierd in the eyes of Chinese why the Japanese write the first stroke so short (and not slopy enough) but then my Japanese teacher thinks it is a きれい way of writing.


 
My mistake! The times I've dealt with Japanese handwriting I always found it kind of sloppy, but since I learned Chinese first I may be prejudiced. It is true that Japanese type faces always struck me as being more "spiky" than Chinese ones, though.


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## philosophia85

Personally, I think if you're just learning kanji, you should not concern about whether they look childish or not, as long as they're legible.  If they're not legible, start copying exercise books.  I think in all language, as long as someone can read them, they're ok,  much like English, unless you're going for calligraphy.  In English, you can write the alphabets flatter or thinner or a bit italic, but you still understand it, right?  Same reasoning.  I remember when I was a kid studying in HK, we have to write a hundred characters everyday on a book with square boxes.  You can further divide the box into 4 or 9 squares to determine where the correct position of each stroke is.  And make sure the character is pretty much center-aligned in the box.  If you still have trouble, slow way down and imagine what the character looks like before you write.


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