# Instrumental case + být



## aedude94

Hi! I have noticed that in Czech a lot of times the instrumental case is used with forms of to be (být). I was wondering if anyone could tell me why or when to this is done? Here are some examples I have heard in songs or translations of English songs into Czech by native speakers:

Budu Tvým snem 
Budu Tvou touhou
Budu Tvou představou

jsi mé světlo na jevišti a já Tvým posledním hercem (I guess the verb is not used in this example, maybe I am not clear on what is trying to be said here)

At least in the first examples, why did the person translate it like that and not just say "Budu tvůj sen ..." and just use the 1st case? Thanks!!!!


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## K.u.r.t

aedude94 said:


> Hi! I have noticed that in Czech a lot of times the instrumental case is used with forms of to be (být). I was wondering if anyone could tell me why or when to this is done? Here are some examples I have heard in songs or translations of English songs into Czech by native speakers:
> 
> Budu Tvým snem
> Budu Tvou touhou
> Budu Tvou představou
> 
> jsi mé světlo na jevišti a já Tvým posledním hercem (I guess the verb is not used in this example, maybe I am not clear on what is trying to be said here)
> 
> At least in the first examples, why did the person translate it like that and not just say "Budu tvůj sen ..." and just use the 1st case? Thanks!!!!


There is no connection between the ver _být_ and the instrumental case. The instrumental case is used with any verb really.

Šel jsem _s kamarádem_.
Hraji na kytaru _s potěšením_
...

Now to your other question: you can say both "budu tvůj sen" or "budu tvým snem"
When talking to people on the street you will more likely hear the 1st case, the 7th case is not used so much.

Recently the 7th case was made more popular by polititians where they started to say (to my ears strange) sentences like "není pravdou, že ..."

The Czech language institute claims that the instrumental in such situation has a slightly different meaning (which I personally don't feel otr agree with). Which is why I will not elaborate on that further - I am sure other people who might not agree will do it.


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## The Machine of Zhu

Like Kurt says the 7th case with být is more formal. I have heard it a lot when people tell me what they do: "Jsem učitelem." But then again, I have heard lots of students say: "Jsem student" rather than "Jsem studentem."


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## bibax

The names of the cases are sometimes misleading, they have more than one purpose (including the instrumental case).

The difference between to be + nominative and to be + instrumental is or can be important, sometimes substantial.

být + nominative expresses inherent nature:

Tygr je šelma.  (Tygr je šelmou. )
Eva je hezká dívka.  (Eva je hezkou dívkou. )
Petr je rozený učitel. (he is predestined to be a teacher) --- but Petr je učitelem na základní škole. (it is merely his job)

být + instrumental expresses transient function, position:

Petr je žákem naší školy.  (Petr je žák naší školy. )
Václav Havel byl presidentem České republiky i Československa.  (Václav Havel byl president ... )

An exercise for you: 

the following sentences have different meaning

1. Od září bude na naší škole učitel.
2. Od září bude na naší škole učitelem.


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## The Machine of Zhu

bibax said:


> The names of cases are sometimes misleading, they have more than one purpose (including the instrumental case).
> 
> The difference between to be + nominative and to be + instrumental is or can be important, sometimes substantial.
> 
> být + nominative expresses inherent nature:
> 
> Tygr je šelma.  (Tygr je šelmou. )
> Eva je hezká dívka.  (Eva je hezkou dívkou. )
> Petr je rozený učitel. --- but Petr je učitelem na základní škole. (it is his job)
> 
> být + instrumental expresses transient function, position:
> 
> Petr je žákem naší školy.  (Petr je žák naší školy. )
> Václav Havel byl presidentem České republiky i Československa.  (Václav Havel byl president ... )
> 
> The following sentences have different meaning:
> 
> Od září bude na naší škole učitel.
> Od září bude na naší škole učitelem.



Díky! That's very interesting.


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## K.u.r.t

The Machine of Zhu said:


> Like Kurt says the 7th case with být is more formal. I have heard it a lot when people tell me what they do: "Jsem učitelem." But then again, I have heard lots of students say: "Jsem student" rather than "Jsem studentem."


Exactly as you say. 

I am glad that Machine gave these great examples, but .... There seem to be more exceptions than rules  One just have to go by gut feel. To put it another way: "The rules are more guidelines than rules, savvy?"


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## jazyk

This old thread might help as well.


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## Tchesko

bibax said:


> The names of the cases are sometimes misleading, they have more than one purpose (including the instrumental case).
> 
> The difference between to be + nominative and to be + instrumental is or can be important, sometimes substantial.
> 
> být + nominative expresses inherent nature:
> 
> Tygr je šelma.  (Tygr je šelmou. )
> Eva je hezká dívka.  (Eva je hezkou dívkou. )
> Petr je rozený učitel. (he is predestined to be a teacher) --- but Petr je učitelem na základní škole. (it is merely his job)
> 
> být + instrumental expresses transient function, position:
> 
> Petr je žákem naší školy.  (Petr je žák naší školy. )
> Václav Havel byl presidentem České republiky i Československa.  (Václav Havel byl president ... )
> 
> An exercise for you:
> 
> the following sentences have different meaning
> 
> 1. Od září bude na naší škole učitel.
> 2. Od září bude na naší škole učitelem.


 
Just to make the different meanings explicit:
1. From September on, there will be a teacher in our school (the use of Nominative gives the sentence an absolute sense implying there will be no teacher till the end of August; there is nothing explicit about this teacher, i.e. we don't know who it is).
2. From September on, he will become a teacher in our school (referring to a particular person; the use of Instrumental conveys a relative meaning so the sentence doesn't imply there is currently no other teacher).


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## jazyk

Jedny noviny například používají zásadně tvar „autor je biologem“, sedmý  pád. Sedmý pád je velikou okrasou i zatrachtilostí češtiny.  Jen se  musí umět používat – znamená totiž něco přechodného – jste teď zrovna  studentem, ale jste brunet.


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## ch.b

Hello,  

I remember a TV interview with a famous Czech actor telling about a journey by train with a friend who was known for his passion for "good Czech". As it was late the friend fell asleep and when he woke up he asked: "To už jest Brnem?"   

When he told them about this rather oldfashioned language afterwards his own children were in stitches, the actor said


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## vianie

Viem, že "Karlovy Vary jsou lázně" a že "Karlovy Vary jsou krajským městem", ale neviem, či "Karlovy Vary jsou město" alebo "Karlovy Vary je město".
Čo potom také Košice či Katovice?


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## K.u.r.t

ch.b said:


> "To už jest Brnem?"


Sounds Polish, not Czech to my ears


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## jazyk

Even in Polish you couldn't use the instrumental because the subject is _to_: To (jest) już Brno.


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## ilocas2

vianie said:


> Viem, že "Karlovy Vary jsou lázně" a že "Karlovy Vary jsou krajským městem", ale neviem, či "Karlovy Vary jsou město" alebo "Karlovy Vary je město".
> Čo potom také Košice či Katovice?



Karlovy Vary jsou město, Košice jsou město, Katovice jsou město mi zní mnohem lépe, než kdyby tam bylo "je".


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## vianie

ilocas2 said:


> Karlovy Vary jsou město, Košice jsou město, Katovice jsou město mi zní mnohem lépe, než kdyby tam bylo "je".



Mne až tak nie, ale díky.
Doriešil som si to.


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