# By the year xxxx



## artimedoros49

Hi,

In English, we often say *By 1172...*, meaning *By the year 1172..*.
How would one say this in Czech? I have only found *Do roku 1172*, and am not sure it is correct. Is there another way?

e.g., By 1172, Vladislav II was old and ill.
        Do roku 1172 Vladislav II byl starý a nemocný.  

Thank you


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## Enquiring Mind

Great question, arti. Non-native speakers of English often have problems with "by" as a preposition of time in English and, conversely, we English speakers tend to have a problem rendering it in Czech. Karel Tahal, in his generally very good "A Grammar of Czech as a Foreign Language", doesn't cover it at all, but let me quote Jozef Petro in his (very good, and inexpensive) 'Problematická slova v angličtině' (Problematic Words in English) (halloenglish.cz, 2013) in a note "for advanced () students":


> *Pro pokročilé*: A pak tady máme ještě předložku _by_, jejíž použití nám dělá trochu problémy. Tuto předložku používáme, když sdělujeme, že nějaký děj bude ukončen od momentu, kdy to proneseme do určené doby v budoucnosti._ I'll give the book back to you by Sunday _(*Knihu ti vrátím do neděle*). Pokud tu větu pronesu ve středu, tak to znamená, že to knihu vrátím ve čtvrtek, pátek nebo v sobotu. Určitě ale nejpozději do neděle.



However, this explanation, valid as it is, only covers the use of "by" in future time, and not in past time as in your context "By 1172, Vladislav II was old and ill." In my (non-native) opinion, _*do roku* 1172 Vladislav II byl starý a nemocný_ isn't possible here in Czech, because it would mean "until 1172 V was old and ill" (and after that he got younger again ).

The grammatical construction that springs to my mind is "*V roce* 1172 *byl* Vladislav II *už* starý a nemocný...", in other words (literally)_ in 1172, V was already old and ill_, which is perfectly acceptable in English, but the "by" version (without "already") is arguably more idiomatic. I suspect there are more elegant alternatives if we had the complete sentence.

More examples:
_Horoskopy. Ryby -  V pátek už budou vaše myšlenky směřovat k odpočinku, zábavě a rodině._ ... by Friday your thoughts will be turning to ....

_Edmund Stoiber se již jako chlapec zajímal o dějiny. Vystudoval práva a politologii v Mnichově a v roce 1975 už byl v okresním předsednictvu CSU v Horním Bavorsku._ (zpravy.idnes.cz) ... and by 1975 he was (already) ...

_Ve čtvrtek odpoledne vystoupí teploty na 30 až 34 stupňů Celsia. V pátek už budou polední, odpolední a podvečerní teploty dosahovat 32 až 36 stupňů Celsia, uvádí výstraha._ (novinky.cz) ... by Friday ....

_Do pátku bude vaše dítě jiné: pětidenní plán pro zvládnutí vašeho dítěte_ (kosmas.cz) ... by Friday your child will have changed ...


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## artimedoros49

Many thanks, EQ. Having used _*V roce xxxx - in the year xxxx *_several times, I thought to vary the theme a little. Not as straightforward as I thought it would be.


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## werrr

artimedoros49 said:


> In English, we often say *By 1172...*, meaning *By the year 1172..*.
> How would one say this in Czech? I have only found *Do roku 1172*, and am not sure it is correct.


Yes, indeed, that's correct.


> e.g., By 1172, Vladislav II was old and ill.
> Do roku 1172 byl Vladislav II. starý a nemocný.


But this is incorrect. To be precise, your translation got utterly ruined by an incorrect choice of verbal aspect. To render this particular English meaning you have to use some perfective verbs, for example:

_Do roku 1172 Vladislav II. zestárl a ochuravěl. 
_​With imperfective verb you end up with the meaning provided by Enquiring Mind._
_


> Is there another way?



There are many. For instance, you can simply skip the preposition and just choose the right case for the noun:

_Roku 1177 byl Vladislav II. (již) stár a churav._​


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## artimedoros49

Thank you so much, werrr. That's been a great help to me.


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