# Ciencias del Mar / Marine Science



## xpell

Hello! Sorry for asking in English, I'm not so good at Russian.  Here in Spain there is an university degree ("carrera universitaria" / университетская карьера?) in Ciencias del Mar, which is pretty close to the Wikipedia definition for Marine Science. It is a 4 year (bachelor) to 5-6 year (master) multidisciplinary degree including Oceanography, Marine Biology, general science and a wide range of knowledge about the seas and their workings. This allows for further specialization in a wide range of fields, from fisheries to management of marine resources, ecological conservation, evolutionary genetics, oceanography/hydrology, marine geochemistry, biochemistry or even biophysics, computational biology or astrobiology. You can see the basic (4 year) subjects here (Universidad de Las Palmas, in Spanish) for instance.

Please, does this degree (or similar) exist in Russia? And if so, what is its name? Thank you in advance!


----------



## DrDIT

Probably the closest equivalent is the Океанология program offered by Moscow State University (Программа обучения Океанология в МГУ имени М. В. Ломоносова, Москва - о программе бакалавриата 05.03.04: баллы ЕГЭ, экзамены на msk.postupi.online).


----------



## Enquiring Mind

Hi xpell, the University of Southern Denmark here (masterstudies.ru) offers 'Marine Science' studies which their Russian page translates as морск*а*я на*у*ка, and their Spanish page as Ciencias del Mar, but DrD is better placed than me to comment on the terminology used in Russia.


----------



## DrDIT

As to the terminology used in Russia... Russian is always as specific as possible, and avoids such "umbrella terms" as "life science", "marine science", "hard science", etc. "Морская наука" is obviously a literal translation and it does not sound right. To me "морская наука" is something from the tall ship age; it's what a seasoned sea farer used to teach to a young seaman-boy.


----------



## xpell

DrDIT said:


> Probably the closest equivalent is the Океанология program offered by Moscow State University (Программа обучения Океанология в МГУ имени М. В. Ломоносова, Москва - о программе бакалавриата 05.03.04: баллы ЕГЭ, экзамены на msk.postupi.online).


Thank you very much, DrDIT, but I'm seeing that this is basically an Oceanography / Oceanology degree with the traditional Physical-Mathematical approach, which barely includes anything about Marine Biology and the like. (It sure sounds really good, but it is only "half of" Ciencias del Mar, you could not work in fisheries or biochemistry-related fields with only Океанология, for instance.) The whole point of Ciencias del Mar is the multi-disciplinary approach that allows you to specialize in a wide range of possible fields later including Oceanography but not only Oceanography.


----------



## Q-cumber

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi xpell, the University of Southern Denmark here (masterstudies.ru) offers 'Marine Science' studies which their Russian page translates as морск*а*я на*у*ка, and their Spanish page as Ciencias del Mar, but DrD is better placed than me to comment on the terminology used in Russia.


Hi EM! Their Russian page is just a specimen of terrible machine translation. Shame on them!


----------



## Q-cumber

DrDIT said:


> To me "морская наука" is something from the tall ship age; it's what a seasoned sea farer used to teach to a young seaman-boy.


True!  This expression reminds me Peter the Great's times.


----------



## Enquiring Mind

Sure, a bit like some of the English pages of ... (let's not go there! ). But as a catch-all term at the basic lexical level of "marine science", do you not think that морская наука (used in the context of a course of university studies) conveys the general idea?  My understanding is that xpell is looking for a term in Russian that would be understood to convey the basic sense of the description in Spanish. Of course, he/she can then go on to explain in greater detail what the studies involve.





> Marine Science Training and Education Programme - Программа ЮНЕСКО по подготовке кадров и обучению в области морских наук (fradic.ru)


In support of DrD:





> marine science research ship - океанографическое научно исследовательское судно (fradic.ru)


(But I'm not arguing - _*you're *_the natives! )
[I subsequently added (used in the context of a course of university studies). I guess that Russians would not understand it in context to mean "seafaring".]


----------



## DrDIT

Let us consider the definition of океанология (океанология - это... Что такое океанология?)
It says that the science covers pretty much everything xpell needs: "ocean physics, chemistry and bilogy". So I'd opt for океанология.


----------



## Vovan

"Науки о море" is better than "морские науки". As others have said, "морские науки" invokes strong associations with the past (pre-revolutionary Russia) and, I would say, with military sciences:


> *ВОЕННАЯ ЛИТЕРАТУРА --[ Военная история ]-- Аммон Г. А ...*
> militera.lib.ru/h/ammon_ga1/03.html
> 1696–_1800_ .... Высшей ступенью считались _морские науки_: навигация, астрономия, география.


----------



## Q-cumber

Enquiring Mind said:


> Sure, a bit like some of the English pages of ... (let's not go there! ). But as a catch-all term at the basic lexical level of "marine science", do you not think that морская наука conveys the general idea?  My understanding is that xpell is looking for a term in Russian that would be understood to convey the basic sense of the description in Spanish. Of course, he can then go on to explain in greater detail what the studies involve.


In my opinion, the WiKi article is about "океанология".  "Морская биология" is a narrower  part of "океанология" and this is what they study at the Danish university.


----------



## Vadim K

xpell said:


> Thank you very much, DrDIT, but I'm seeing that this is basically an Oceanography / Oceanology degree with the traditional Physical-Mathematical approach, which barely includes anything about Marine Biology and the like. (It sure sounds really good, but it is only "half of" Ciencias del Mar, you could not work in fisheries or biochemistry-related fields with only Океанология, for instance.) The whole point of Ciencias del Mar is the multi-disciplinary approach that allows you to specialize in a wide range of possible fields later including Oceanography but not only Oceanography.



Creo que se equivoca. En Rusia biológica marina es una parte del estudio "oceanografía"  junto con tales partes como geológica, física y química del mar. Ademas, oceanografía incluye tales partes como "_техническая океанология_" (oceanología tecnológica) y "_промысловая океанология_" (oceanología de pesca). Es decir, la oceanografía en Rusia también es un estudio completo lo mismo que las ciencias del mar en España.


----------



## xpell

Enquiring Mind said:


> Sure, a bit like some of the English pages of ... (let's not go there! ). But as a catch-all term at the basic lexical level of "marine science", do you not think that морская наука conveys the general idea?  My understanding is that xpell is looking for a term in Russian that would be understood to convey the basic sense of the description in Spanish. Of course, he can then go on to explain in greater detail what the studies involve.


It's basically a sub-set of Earth and Planetary Sciences, like here for instance (Marine Science major, University of California at Berkeley.) (Program)

I can translate the Spanish program for you if it helps:

1st year (in summary):

General Physics
General Mathematics
General Biology
General Geology
General Chemistry​
2nd year

Marine biodiversity
Statistics
Physiology of Marine Organisms
General Scientific Computer Science
Mathematics for Oceanography
Geophysics Fluid Mechanics
Sedimentary Marine Environment
Oceanic Waves
Chemistry of Disolutions
Organic Chemistry​
3rd year

Marine Pollution
Marine Ecology
Coastal Hydrodynamics
Biological Oceanology
Chemical Oceanology
Coastal Planning and Management
Marine Chemistry
Living Marine Resources​
4th year

Aquaculture and Marine Biotechnology
Environmental Quality and Eco-toxicology
Marine Geo-resources
Instruments and Data Analysis in Physical Oceanography
Meteorology and Atmosphere-Ocean Interaction
Advanced statistical methods for Marine Sciences
Chemical Methods and Applied Instrumental Techniques
Computer modelation of Marine Systems and Ecosystems
Fisheries
Geographic Information Techniques applied to Geology​
...with this, some additional optional subjects, the Bachelor's Thesis and the practicum, you get your bachelor degree in Ciencias del Mar. Then you specialize in one or several multidisciplinary fields for the Master degree, and further for the Doctor degree or post-doctorate Degrees.



Q-cumber said:


> In my opinion, the WiKi article is about "океанология".  "Морская биология" is a narrower  part of "океанология" and this is what they study at the Danish university.





Vadim K said:


> Creo que se equivoca. En Rusia biológica marina es una parte del estudio "oceanografía"  junto con tales partes como geológica, física y química del mar. Ademas, oceanografía incluye tales partes como "_техническая океанология_" (oceanología tecnológica) y "_промысловая океанология_" (oceanología de pesca). Es decir, la oceanografía en Rusia también es un estudio completo lo mismo que las ciencias del mar en España.



OK, then I guess that in Russian all of this is a sub-set of Oceanography/Oceanology. But my question is, is there any specific "карьера" in Russian Universities covering a similar sub-set of subjects as in these Spanish or American universities...? (For instance, the Океанология program offered by the Moscow State University that DrDIT kindly suggested only covers the traditional physical-mathematical part of Oceanography but not the biological/biochemical part.)


----------



## Vadim K

xpell said:


> OK, then I guess that in Russian all of this is a sub-set of Oceanography/Oceanology. But my question is, is there any specific "карьера" in Russian Universities covering a similar sub-set of subjects as in these Spanish or American universities...? (For instance, the Океанология program offered by the Moscow State University that DrDIT kindly suggested only covers the traditional physical-mathematical part of Oceanography but not the biological/biochemical part.)



РГГМУ | Океанологический факультет

СТРУКТУРА


----------



## xpell

DrDIT said:


> Let us consider the definition of океанология (океанология - это... Что такое океанология?)
> It says that the science covers pretty much everything xpell needs: "ocean physics, chemistry and bilogy". So I'd opt for океанология.





Q-cumber said:


> In my opinion, the WiKi article is about "океанология".  "Морская биология" is a narrower  part of "океанология" and this is what they study at the Danish university.





Vadim K said:


> Creo que se equivoca. En Rusia biológica marina es una parte del estudio "oceanografía"  junto con tales partes como geológica, física y química del mar. Ademas, oceanografía incluye tales partes como "_техническая океанология_" (oceanología tecnológica) y "_промысловая океанология_" (oceanología de pesca). Es decir, la oceanografía en Rusia también es un estudio completo lo mismo que las ciencias del mar en España.


Oh, OK, after reading the description of океанология in the Russian Wikipedia, I think you're right about the definition if you're so kind to confirm this: 

Океаноло́гия (от океан и др.-греч. λόγος — суждение, слово.) или океаногра́фия (от океан и др.-греч. γραφειν — пишу, описываю) изучает крупномасштабное взаимодействие океана и атмосферы и его длиннопериодную изменчивость, химический обмен океана с материками, атмосферой и дном, биоту и её экологические взаимодействия, геологическое строение дна, устанавливает местные или локальные процессы, происходящие за счет обмена энергией и веществом между различными районами океана. Океанология представляет собой, по существу, совокупность дисциплин, изучающих физические, химические и биологические процессы, протекающие в океане в целом, в его отдельных регионах (региональная океанология), в окраинных и внутренних морях. *В России понятие «океанография» обычно подразумевает тот же предмет, но без биологической составляющей.*

But,



Vadim K said:


> РГГМУ | Океанологический факультет


Yes I had checked this one, the РГГМУ is world-famous, but I still can't find an equivalent or similar Bachelor's Degree there... 


Vadim K said:


> СТРУКТУРА


And no sign of Biology or Biochemistry here, either.


----------



## Particle

xpell said:


> Yes I had checked this one, the РГГМУ is world-famous, but I still can't find an equivalent or similar Bachelor's Degree there...



...and you will not find, because in the Soviet Union the education system was completely different. This system has changed over the past 25 years, but not very much.


----------



## Rosett

Particle said:


> ...and you will not find, because in the Soviet Union the education system was completely different. This system has changed over the past 25 years, but not very much.


I think you can safely refer to «Океанология», as taught at SPbSU in the modern time. Both Bachelor and Master degrees include the entire range of courses, as shown above, involving essential training in Biology:
Основные дисциплины, читаемые на кафедре  океанологии


----------



## xpell

Thank you all very much!!!


----------

