# Kan, Ken  words



## aruniyan

In Tamil "*Kan*" means Eye, I am interested in similar sounding(ken,kno,gna,Gan,Con,Can etc...) words in other languages, that are related to *eye/to see/seek/to gain in/etc*. I found some interesting words and requesting forum members to contribute.


----------



## mataripis

kan in Philippine languages is "eat".Eyes is "Mata" or "Paningin"


----------



## aruniyan

mataripis said:


> kan in Philippine languages is "eat".Eyes is "Mata" or "Paningin"



thanks mataripis.


To start with, there is this word "kan" in Chinese and Japanese that means "To look or to see", but not sure how common is this word.


----------



## aruniyan

In *Turkish* I found this word, *"kanı"* which is related to eye, view, know etc.... little amazing how distant languages has similar sounding words for similar meanings.


----------



## ThomasK

Well, there is Dutch *kennen*, to know, probably related with *kunnen*, to be able to. There might be a link with to see through _*weten *_(< Lat. videre),  to know, which is a synonym or almost of _kennen _(kennen// _connaître_).  

Is the starting point a supposed etymological link, aruniyan?


----------



## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Well, there is Dutch *kennen*, to know, probably related with *kunnen*, to be able to. There might be a link with to see through _*weten *_(< Lat. videre),  to know, which is a synonym or almost of _kennen _(kennen// _connaître_).
> 
> Is the starting point a supposed etymological link, aruniyan?




Thanks for your post, 

No, I am not looking for etymological link, its real faraway.

But I found some IE words like  *Know, Gain, Can, Con(Latin) etc...* too close to Tamil words Kan(Eye), Kaan(To see), Gyaan(know) etc...I am looking for these words in other distant languages if any, I found it surprising to see that in Chinese, Japanese and Turkish, even the Semitic "Ayin" looks close, Interested to hear views from those language speakers.


----------



## ThomasK

Well, you seem to suggest some etymological link, in that way. Or still more interesting: an underlying semantic link. Seeing and knowing seem intrinsically related (you can't know what you can't see though of course that seems to be old; nowadays seeing is no longer believing...). So that would not be so strange. 

And I do not know how you interpret _gaining in_, but if it means conquering or acquiring, then again the underlying semantic link does not seem strange to me: we collect/ acquire all kinds of knowledge while seeing, getting to know.


----------



## apmoy70

Hi, aruniyan,

In Greek:

«Γνώμη» /'ɣnomi/ (fem.) an ancient feminine noun «γνώμη» 'gnōmē --> _will, disposition, inclination_
«Γνώση» /'ɣnosi/ (fem.) an ancient feminine noun «γνῶσις» 'gnōsīs --> _knowing, knowledge_
«Γνωρίζω» /'ɣno'rizo/ (v.) an ancient verb «γνωρίζω» gnō'rīzō --> _to gain knowledge of_
«Γνώρισμα» /'ɣno'rizma/ (neut.) an ancient neuter noun «γνώρισμα» 'gnōrīsmă --> _mark, token_
Ancient verb «γιγνώσκω» gĭ'gnōskō --> _to come to know, perceive_
Ancient neuter noun «γνῶμα» 'gnōmă --> _opinion, judgement_

All of the above from PIE root *gno-, _to know_. 
However aruniyan, since Tamil belongs to the Dravidian language family and it's not an IE language, don't you think that the resemblance between the Tamil gyaan and the Latin gnoscere for instance, is coincidental?


----------



## ThomasK

That's right, Apmoy. That is the reason why I thought of a semantic link, which might then account for resemblances within Tamil...


----------



## aruniyan

apmoy70 said:


> Hi, aruniyan,
> 
> In Greek:
> 
> «Γνώμη» /'ɣnomi/ (fem.) an ancient feminine noun «γνώμη» 'gnōmē --> _will, disposition, inclination_
> «Γνώση» /'ɣnosi/ (fem.) an ancient feminine noun «γνῶσις» 'gnōsīs --> _knowing, knowledge_
> «Γνωρίζω» /'ɣno'rizo/ (v.) an ancient verb «γνωρίζω» gnō'rīzō --> _to gain knowledge of_
> «Γνώρισμα» /'ɣno'rizma/ (neut.) an ancient neuter noun «γνώρισμα» 'gnōrīsmă --> _mark, token_
> Ancient verb «γιγνώσκω» gĭ'gnōskō --> _to come to know, perceive_
> Ancient neuter noun «γνῶμα» 'gnōmă --> _opinion, judgement_
> 
> All of the above from PIE root *gno-, _to know_.
> However aruniyan, since Tamil belongs to the Dravidian language family and it's not an IE language, don't you think that the resemblance between the Tamil gyaan and the Latin gnoscere for instance, is coincidental?




Apmoy, thanks for your post, really interesting. I think its not coincidental, may be a primitive ancient language link.

Regarding the Semitic word *Ayin*, i read this somewhere, how true is this?


> The Hebrew word for "eye" is "*ghayin*" often pronounced as ayin, the origin of our word "eye". The "gh" sound is like the "ng"   in "jungle". The sound is soft and often silent.


----------



## ancalimon

We also have a saying in Turkish:  bir bakışa kanmak (to fall in love ~ be fooled by just seeing him/her looking).


----------



## ThomasK

Well, that is the semantic link again. In Flemish Dutch 'I love you' is : 'Ik zie je graag' (I love seeing you, lit. I see you with pleasure). 

And I have read somewhere that there is a link (well, in that language) between seeing and loving. But of course one also says that love is blind... ;-)


----------



## JeloRoc

ThomasK said:


> Well, you seem to suggest some etymological link, in that way. Or still more interesting: an underlying semantic link. Seeing and knowing seem intrinsically related (you can't know what you can't see though of course that seems to be old; nowadays seeing is no longer believing...). So that would not be so strange.
> 
> And I do not know how you interpret _gaining in_, but if it means conquering or acquiring, then again the underlying semantic link does not seem strange to me: we collect/ acquire all kinds of knowledge while seeing, getting to know.



Interesting connection. In Wolof the word for 'to know' or 'to understand' is the same word for 'to hear'. (Hearing is believing?) The same word is also translated as 'to speak' when used in the context of asking someone if they understand a particular language although technically it does not mean that. _*Ndax (degg) nga angale?* [Do you (speak/know/understand/hear) English?]
_


----------



## JeloRoc

In Wolof _kan_ can mean _hole_, _when_ or _to praise oneself_ depending on the accents of the letters. _Eye_ is _bet/bot_. _To close/open one's eyes_ is _gemma/gemmi_. _Gis_ is _to see_. Digging out my dictionaries to see if I can find any words closer to your query...will be back if I find any.


----------



## JeloRoc

JeloRoc said:


> In Wolof _kan_ can mean _hole_, _when_ or _to praise oneself_ depending on the accents of the letters. _Eye_ is _bet/bot_. _To close/open one's eyes_ is _gemma/gemmi_. _Gis_ is _to see_. Digging out my dictionaries to see if I can find any words closer to your query...will be back if I find any.



The only other thing I can find is _gem/gom_ which means _to believe_ which seems to be related to _gemma/gemmi_ which means _to close/open one's eyes_. (_genta_ is _to dream; gumba _is_ to be blind_).

I wrote in the previous post that _bet_ is _eye_...the plural, _eyes_, is _get_.


----------



## ThomasK

So the (sound) etymology does not seem to work in Wolof at all, does it? The other information in #13 might reveal some kind of universality, but it might all be fairly vague.


----------



## aruniyan

JeloRoc said:


> The only other thing I can find is _gem/gom_ which means _to believe_ which seems to be related to _gemma/gemmi_ which means _to close/open one's eyes_. (_genta_ is _to dream; gumba _is_ to be blind_).
> 
> I wrote in the previous post that _bet_ is _eye_...the plural, _eyes_, is _get_.




Thanks for your post, I will find more about "Wolof", here is something interesting in some other Afroasiatic language family,



> Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *ki(ha)n-
> Meaning: know, learn
> 
> 
> Borean etymology: Borean etymology
> 
> 
> Semitic: *kVhVn- 'act as a priest' 1, 'to have second sight, profecy' 2, 'priest' 3
> 
> 
> Egyptian: t_ny 'learn'(MK)
> 
> 
> Western Chadic: *kinn- 'know'
> 
> 
> Central Chadic: *kan- 'truth' 1,  'true' 2
> 
> 
> East Chadic: *kVny- 'knowledge'
> 
> 
> 
> Beḍauye (Beja): kan- 'know'
> 
> 
> 
> Central Cushitic (Agaw): *ki/an-t- 'learn'
> 
> 
> 
> Low East Cushitic: *ḳaHin- 'know' - cf.
> 
> 
> 
> High East Cushitic: *ken- 'know'
> 
> 
> 
> Mogogodo (Yaaku): (?) -gehen- 'know'


----------



## JeloRoc

That's interesting that you included the Semitic word for 'to have second sight' since I had just learned the Wolof phrase for that not an hour ago. _Yaa boppa_ [_yaa_ = to be wide; _boppa_ = head] literally translates into 'to be wide headed' but is used to mean 'to have second sight'.

In Wolof 'to learn' is _jang_. I'm not sure how to pronounce the Afroasiatic words you posted but I imagine that _jang_ and _kan_ might have a similar vowel pronunciation. (Some scholars have made a lingual & cultural connection between W. & E. Africa but this is controversial.)

As far as a "universal sound etymology" (or whatever we're calling it) between seemingly unrelated languages I know that after studying Wolof I have come across many words that are similar to English words in pronunciation and meaning other than the obvious Wolofized loan words from former European colonizers.

Also, I saw a program once years ago that showed how different languages around the world seemed to share certain Hebraic words.


----------



## ThomasK

Universal sound etymology: that seems to be a dangerous path... I did read in a book by David Crystal that there are some resemblances between the words for small (lots of 'i' sounds), but it is not a rule. And I read about the other  theory but a renowned etymologist warned me that one can prove anything that way ´- though indeed it is quite tempting. 

I prefer to stick to some underlying semantic link as the one between seeing and knowing (though sometimes reflected in (sound) etymology).


----------



## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Universal sound etymology: that seems to be a dangerous path... I did read in a book by David Crystal that there are some resemblances between the words for small (lots of 'i' sounds), but it is not a rule. And I read about the other  theory but a renowned etymologist warned me that one can prove anything that way ´- though indeed it is quite tempting.
> 
> I prefer to stick to some underlying semantic link as the one between seeing and knowing (though sometimes reflected in (sound) etymology).




Yes, but selective words could have traveled to distant places , there seems to be a lot of links between some of the distant languages which will be hard to explain by the experts, but here I am not looking for some specific word but the semantic(idea behind the sound).

Coming back to the topic, I searched in some Uralic languages but couldn't find this sound/words for eye,know,see,look etc...


----------



## JeloRoc

My sister is an archaeologist and she's always telling me that similarities don't mean a connection and that there are certain things that are just "universal" to some degree but still primarily independent of each other. Although she's talking more about artifacts and cultural traits this can obviously be applied to language as well. 

I agree with what I think aruniyan is saying in that it may not be that one word is directly from the language of another but rather that there are certain sounds that seem to reflect certain concepts in the human mind so that the words applied to these concepts tend to be universally similar. However, I also do believe that world history is much more complicated than we think and that it's possible that cross-pollination of language across seemingly disconnected cultures could have happened...either through a global (or semi-global) lingua franca used for trade, or through cultures that mastered sea travel much earlier than we thought, or through catastrophic events that caused populations to disperse, etc. I believe these are just possibilities to consider but not statements of fact. 

The idea of a semantic connection between the sounds of words and their meanings in different languages is an intriguing one...please keep us updated on anything new you may find...


----------



## aruniyan

In finnish and related language...

_I found this word, *näh‧dä* meaning "To see"
From the same Proto-Uralic *näke as Estonian nägema and Hungarian néz. _

Looks close.


----------



## ancalimon

aruniyan said:


> In finnish and related language...
> 
> _I found this word, *näh‧dä* meaning "To see"
> From the same Proto-Uralic *näke as Estonian nägema and Hungarian néz. _
> 
> Looks close.



Is it related with the Naga in Indian mythology?  We also have a word in Turkish; "Nazar" meaning "evil eye".


----------



## aruniyan

ancalimon said:


> Is it related with the Naga in Indian mythology?  We also have a word in Turkish; "Nazar" meaning "evil eye".



Don't know about Finnish and Naga connection, Naaga is Cobra snake.

Other interesting words,

Viietnamese : *nhìn* (To look)
Turkish :* göz*
Asturianu :*Güeyu*.
Magyar : *néz* (To look)
Marathi - *नेत्र* (NEK) - Eye
Hindi - *Aank* - Eye
Kazakh : *көз* - Eye
Old English? : *eghen* (eye)


----------

