# glassed off



## maudebac

Ciao. Come si potrebbe tradurre: "The water glassed off black"? La frase intera è "The water glassed off black, a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind). 
grazie


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## TimLA

Ciao.
È difficilissima, ma finalmente ho capito!!!! Non ci credo....

Si può dividere così
(The water)(glassed-off)(black)

The water (was to me) a glassed-off (mass of) black....

"glassed-off" vuol dire che c'è una finestra tra l'osservatore e il mare.

Non so come rendere "glassed-off" (se c'è una frase idiomatica).

L'acqua era una massa nera dietro la finestra...

Brutta, ma un tentativo...


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## Siberia

Maudebac,
potresti aggiungere la frase prima e quella dopo così dal contesto ti potremo dire di più?
Siberia


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## maudebac

certo, volentieri. Il contesto è sempre la solita barca nel bel mezzo di una tempesta.

The fog descended again  and the ship moved within it like a scent hound.  The water glassed off black, a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind. 
grazie!


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## Siberia

This is my two-penny-worth
Glass can also mean reflect so that the water reflected on the ship's shiny surface would look black. Black because it is either night or dark because of a storm or the fog effect.

Siberia


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## maudebac

I don't know...it sounds complicated...and probably it is!
Anyway, thank you!


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## niklavjus

maudebac said:


> The fog descended again  and the ship moved within it like a scent hound.  The water glassed off black, a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind.


Dato che il mare calmo viene anche definito "glassy", potrebbe significare che "il mare cominciò a ingrossarsi".

Mi chiedo però se non vi sia un refuso: non potrebbe essere "back", invece di "black"? "Il mare *ri*cominciò...". Avrebbe senso?

Edit: Ho tolto il riferimento a un'eventuale bonaccia. La nebbia in mare può persistere anche con vento forte. Non lo sapevo.


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## maudebac

Dal contesto direi che il mare sicuramente non è calmo ma anzi parecchio agitato. 
Grazie cmq!
E confermo: nebbia con vento forte...


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## You little ripper!

*To glass* means *to become glassy *or* take on a glass-like appearance*. *To glass off black* means to *take on a black glass-like appearance.*


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## esky

Ciao!

Mi butto anch'io nel mare delle interpretazioni 

Bella l'idea di TimLa e la specificita' nautica di Niklavjus, ma 

sottolineerei l'idea di Siberia (mancanza di visibilita'),  per il semplice motivo che le due frasi descrittive hanno in comune:
1. movimento - la barca, come un segugio nella nebbia, segue un sentiero
2. oscurita' -si muove nella fitta nebbia (non c'e' visibilita') -  forse e' notte?
3. non sara' una tempesta tanto violenta se ' _the swells pushed the ship *gently* from behind. _'

Sembra piu' un giallo: 'l'acqua scivola via come una massa nera','la barca che serpeggia tra le onde nere' ...

Potrebbe essere sia un riflesso dell'acqua, che il movimento dell'acqua stessa. Ma alla fine, il concetto potrebbe essere scivolare nel buio..

Come sempre, il contesto e' decisivo! 

Hope that helps.


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## maudebac

Ciao, vedo che in molti si stanno appassionando alla discussione!

Interessanti considerazioni di Esky - che tengo presenti. Forse però qualcosa di vitreo devono averlo, come fa notare Charles, da Perth (thanks!). 
Opterei per questa traduzione, che al momento è quella che mi convince di più:

La nebbia calò di nuovo  e la barca vi ci si muoveva come un cane da fiuto. L’acqua era nera e vitrea, uno squarcio di strada in movimento davanti, e le onde spingevano la barca dolcemente da dietro.

cheers


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## niklavjus

esky said:


> Bella l'idea di TimLa e la specificita' nautica di Niklavjus, ma...


Il significato suggerito di TimLA, "separato da un vetro", "sotto vetro" e simili, è senz'altro corretto, nel giusto contesto, e comune. _"...'15 Cubic Meters', an exhibit showing chunk of land with water glassed off."_ ​Ma in quanto alla mia ipotesi devo invece riconoscere che l'identificazione di "glassy" e "calmo", l'opposizione di senso che interessa taluni verbi seguiti da "off" e il mio inglese povero, mi hanno probabilmente portato fuori rotta. 

Ho trovato che in ambito meteorologico "glass off" indica "calma di vento", ma anche la formazione di certe correnti ascensionali._"When these two winds collide, there is sometimes a calm -- or glass off."_
_"... the rim begins to 'glass off.' That is, a steady band of lift forms across the entire length of the rim."_​Relativamente all'acqua, ho l'impressione che, oltre all'apparenza, descriva talvolta una condizione dinamica, come negli esempi riportati qui in basso, per i quali non riesco, tuttavia, ad immaginare un'interpretazione univoca... Sono di nuovo in alto - vitreo - mare? * a)* _"The waves actually picked up for a while, and the water glassed off, so we had a lot of nice little rides."_
* b)* _"... Ozzie entered the water just before a shift in the ocean’s energy took place. The waves got slightly bigger, the barrels more square, and the water glassed off."_
* c)* _"The surge was much stronger, so after two dives we headed back around the corner for a little shelter.  The water glassed off in the evening and a light marine layer hovered above us in late afternoon purplish hues."_
* d)* _"There are advantages to wind [...] When the sea glasses off you’ll see a lot of fish but you won’t catch doodly. Only a fool wishes for calm. My own personal ideal, I think, is about ten knots—enough to rough up the water and ..."_
* e)*  _"When the wind drops, the sea glasses off and you get 1 - 2 mtr (max) waves for a couple of days."_​


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## maudebac

Bel mistero. Sembrerebbe quasi che sia quando il mare si appiattisce - ma non completamente, visto che si continua a parlare di onde di 1-2 m (e anche nel mio caso parla di onde che spingono la nave). Che sia la cosiddetta "onda lunga" che a differenza dell'onda di vento non ha crestine?  La buttò lì ma non sono convinta... 
No native sailor on line?


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## baldpate

niklavjus said:


> *a)* _"The waves actually picked up for a while, and the water glassed off, so we had a lot of nice little rides."_
> 
> *b)* _"... Ozzie entered the water just before a shift in the ocean’s energy took place. The waves got slightly bigger, the barrels more square, and the water glassed off."_​
> *c)* _"The surge was much stronger, so after two dives we headed back around the corner for a little shelter. The water glassed off in the evening and a light marine layer hovered above us in late afternoon purplish hues."_​
> *d)* _"There are advantages to wind [...] When the sea glasses off you’ll see a lot of fish but you won’t catch doodly. Only a fool wishes for calm. My own personal ideal, I think, is about ten knots—enough to rough up the water and ..."_​
> *e)* _"When the wind drops, the sea glasses off and you get 1 - 2 mtr (max) waves for a couple of days."_​




Congratualtions! Nice piece of research, niklavjus.

Those are pretty convincing citations for describing a sea _without_ wind-driven waves, _without_ foaming/breaking crests.  Consistent, then, with the boat being pushed from behind by a swell.

PS - I am not a sailor ​


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## maudebac

Sì, mi associo anch'io alle congratulations per la ricerca di niklavjus. Grazie.
Thank you not-a-sailor baldpate...


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## Bookmom

Wow, after all that, I read the piece and imediately thought of the view through the glass creating boundaries, so that by adding a comma after the water, you get "The water, glassed off black, appeared as/had the appearance of a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind). 

The black water, viewed through the glass/bounded by the glass appeared as a shifting patch of road ahead. 

I thought the passage was trying to get the idea across that the water, when viewed through the ship's glass, appeared as a shifting road ahead that a hound dog (the ship moving as a scent hound) would follow a scent on.


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## gatto

niklavjus said:


> *a)* _"The waves actually picked up for a while, and the water glassed off, so we had a lot of nice little rides."_​*b)* _"... Ozzie entered the water just before a shift in the ocean’s energy took place. The waves got slightly bigger, the barrels more square, and the water glassed off."_​*c)* _"The surge was much stronger, so after two dives we headed back around the corner for a little shelter. The water glassed off in the evening and a light marine layer hovered above us in late afternoon purplish hues."_​*d)* _"There are advantages to wind [...] When the sea glasses off you’ll see a lot of fish but you won’t catch doodly. Only a fool wishes for calm. My own personal ideal, I think, is about ten knots—enough to rough up the water and ..."_​*e)* _"When the wind drops, the sea glasses off and you get 1 - 2 mtr (max) waves for a couple of days."_​


Non sono né native né sailor, mi attengo quindi alle mie esperienze 'collaterali'.
In tutti gli esempi di Niklavjus (mi pare) si parla dell'apparenza 'vitrea' del mare, indipendentemente dalla presenza o meno di onde. In particolare in d), c'è la netta contrapposizione tra 'the sea glasses out' e 'ten knots-enough to rough up the water'.
Da varie considerazioni che non ripeto perché già sparse nei post degli altri, credo che la situazione sia la seguente: 
all'inizio, mare grosso, con vento (forte, immagino)
a un certo punto, caduta più o meno improvvisa del vento, (vedi punto e di Niklavjus) e ritorno della nebbia (è comunque la situazione più comune, anche se alcune nebbie di avvezione si possono formare 'dinamicamente' in presenza di vento -as far as I know!-)
in quel momento, c'è ancora onda, ma il suo aspetto non è più 'rough', increspato, ma 'glassy', lucido, liscio, trasparente. Il colore cambia da bianco spumoso, a scuro (nero, se è notte o comunque c'è poca luce) a causa della accresciuta trasparenza dell'acqua.

Ho esaurito l'ATP, il neurone si sta spegnendo, ma spero di aver aggiunto qualcosa utile a chiarire il dubbio


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## Bookmom

Ciao Gatto,

Quanta fatica! Mi dispiace dirtelo, ma, se non sbaglio, avete, sia tu sia Niklavjus, tracciato la rotta sbagliata. Se no, perche' "a shifting patch of road ahead"? 

This ship is in a black expanse of open ocean, the appearance of a road ahead is formed looking through it's window, the window frame gives the appearance, creates the illusion of a shifting patch of road ahead. And what would a scent hound follow? Open water? A pathway through the open water, the illusion of a road formed of black water framed by the ship's window?

Water looks like glass, a flat, motionless surface, only in totally calm conditions. This does not suggest that a break in rough weather allowed the water to appear like glass, motionless, and it doesn't account for the specific appearance of "a shifting patch of road ahead". The road wouldn't shift in calm water.

Isn't this a blast!


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## maudebac

Riassumendo, l'altra versione potrebbe essere:
L’acqua, *nera dietro ai vetri,* era uno squarcio di strada in movimento davanti, mentre le onde spingevano la barca dolcemente da dietro.
Ha perfettamente senso anche così...
Grazie a tutti (neuroni, ATP ed endorfine finiti anche per me x oggi)


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## You little ripper!

Bookmom said:


> Water looks like glass, a flat, motionless surface, only in totally calm conditions. This does not suggest that a break in rough weather allowed the water to appear like glass, motionless, and it doesn't account for the specific appearance of "a shifting patch of road ahead". The road wouldn't shift in calm water.


Bookmom, the water doesn't have to be completely motionless to look like glass. It can look like moving plates of glass, different geometric shapes of glass, fragmented glass that is constantly moving etc. 
There a quite a few Google references to the water looking like moving glass. 





> *The water like shifting glass........*
> *Wow, after all that, I read the piece and imediately thought of the view through the glass creating boundaries, so that by adding a comma after the water, you get "The water, glassed off black, appeared as/had the appearance of a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind). *
> 
> *The black water, viewed through the glass/bounded by the glass appeared as a shifting patch of road ahead. *


 From niklavjus' examples in Post 12 it seems that *water glassing off* can be a set expression, so it's probably unlikely that a comma was intended or omitted after *water*.


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## niklavjus

Thanks to baldpate and maudebac for congrats... even though, actually, copy & past it's not such hard work. 

I agree with you all, undoubtedly we speak about a water which gets smooth motion and surface, like it were melting glass. And probably Charles is right when he says that "glassing off" could be a set expression... But it is still hard to me imagine how an Italian sailor would express it.

Ciao, gatto.
Probabilmente non ho saputo spiegare ciò che intendevo. Tutti gli esempi  riferiscono di mutamenti nel moto ondoso, aumento o diminuzione. Ora, dal momento che "glass off" viene variamente declinato, mi sembra voglia esprimere la transizione verso uno stato ideale che in inglese viene normalmente definito (in senso figurato) con "vetro", ma in italiano forse no.

"... the sea glasses off ..." lo tradurrei con "... il mare si placa/calma ...". 
"... il mare si fa (diviene/assume un aspetto) vitreo..." mi pare strano al di fuori di un contesto letterario... Sarà una mia lacuna.


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## maudebac

Qui le probabilità sono 50-50%!
- o si tratta di aspetto vitreo con mare magari non camo ma con onda lunga che vitrea può anche essere. E ci sta tutto.
- oppure lo stanno vedendo da dietro i vetri - e anche questo può essere benissimo, perché sono in plancia con una finestratura davanti...
Il mistero continua....
Forse tirerò una monetina 
grazie sempre a tutti.


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## gatto

niklavjus said:


> Ciao, gatto.
> Probabilmente non ho saputo spiegare ciò che intendevo. Tutti gli esempi riferiscono di mutamenti nel moto ondoso, aumento o diminuzione. Ora, dal momento che "glass off" viene variamente declinato, mi sembra voglia esprimere la transizione verso uno stato ideale che in inglese viene normalmente definito (in senso figurato) con "vetro", ma in italiano forse no.


No, anzi, ti eri spiegato più che bene, io volevo solo tentare un 'riassunto' delle opinioni che a mio giudizio erano 'sulla giusta rotta' , aggiungendo solo qualche considerazione di carattere meteorologico


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## Bookmom

Roped off
Cordoned off
Walled off
Glassed off

Off, in each of these examples serves to create boundaries.  The walled off compound was not visible from the cordoned off pathway leading up to the roped off enclosure where a glassed off security booth awaited all outsiders.

*The fog descended again and the ship moved within it like a scent hound. The water glassed off black, a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind.

*_The black water viewed through the window (glass) looked like a shifting  patch of road ahead_


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## You little ripper!

Bookmom said:


> Roped off
> Cordoned off
> Walled off
> Glassed off
> 
> Off, in each of these examples serves to create boundaries. The walled off compound was not visible from the cordoned off pathway leading up to the roped off enclosure where a glassed off security booth awaited all outsiders.
> 
> *The fog descended again and the ship moved within it like a scent hound. The water glassed off black, a shifting patch of road ahead, and the swells pushed the ship gently from behind.*
> 
> _The black water viewed through the window (glass) looked like a shifting patch of road ahead_


BM, in your examples the *off *does serve to create a boundary, but in the examples from Google given by niklavjus where it's used after a verb, either in the present tense or at the end of a sentence in a similar context, don't. 

_The waves got slightly bigger, the barrels more square, and the water __glassed off__."_

_"There are advantages to wind [...] When the sea glasses off you’ll see a lot of fish but you won’t catch doodly. _

_"When the wind drops, the sea glasses off and you get 1 - 2 mtr (max) waves for a couple of days."_


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## Bookmom

Hi Charles,

I see the examples and I don't dispute their validity, but not in every circumstance, particularly not in this one.  I don't see at all how they relate to a shifting patch of road ahead.  What would create a shifting patch of road, what would it mean using the google results in this case?  And the boat as a scent hound in the fog?  What would a scent hound have to follow in the open ocean using the google examples sited? 

I enjoy seeing the variety of responses that occur on WR, what seems obvious to one person remains hidden to others and so we try to create word pictures to convey what we each see.  It's like a lexicograpic trompe l'oie.  I see a road, black and shifting, bounded by the ship's window.  I feel the ship, moving forward, a scent hound on the ocean road.

Blue skies,
Janet


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## You little ripper!

Bookmom said:


> Hi Charles,
> 
> I see the examples and I don't dispute their validity, but not in every circumstance, particularly not in this one. I don't see at all how they relate to a shifting patch of road ahead. What would create a shifting patch of road, what would it mean using the google results in this case? And the boat as a scent hound in the fog? What would a scent hound have to follow in the open ocean using the google examples sited?


Janet, I made reference to those Google examples purely for the reason that they all refer to *water* or the *sea glassing off*, my point being that the *water/sea glassing off *appears to be a set expression. Other than that the shifting patch of road/the boat as a scent hound in the fog etc. has nothing to do with the Google examples.

Anyway, maudebac has probably already made her decision on how to translate it based on the flick of a coin, and who am I to argue with fate!


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## maudebac

Hi everybody! To solve the "mistery" the glassed-off-waves, I think I will try to contact the author of the text I'm translating and - finally- ASK HIM. It may take some time because I would do that when I'm finished with the whole work. If I will be able to get an answer, I'll tell you!
Cheers!


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## maudebac

Hi everybody!
Finally, I got the solution, from the author:
SURFERS SAY THE WATER GLASSES OFF WHEN IT HAS A SMOOTH GLASS-LIKE APPEARANCE.
Many thanks to all of you.
cheers


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## esky

Beh, 

hai avuto un ottima idea. Caso risolto allora


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