# illo,qui sequitur, dicunt mactata ministro



## Lamb67

hortator pugnae consiliumque fuit. 
squalida promissis qui tegit ora comis
illo, qui sequitur, dicunt mactata ministro 
saepe recusanti corpora capta deo. 

For more context please refer this :http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2208394



Hi,
I suppose that_ illo ministro _is equal to that defiant and arrogant 2nd in command prisoner but am not sure. And who is the subject of the dicunt?

Thanks.


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## Cagey

Please name the source of the quotation in the thread itself. 

 Not only is it a Rule, but knowing the author will help people who are taking the time to help you.  They should not have to click through to another thread for that information.


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## Lamb67

This is from _Tristia_ by Ovid; 4.2.32-36. (In the Latin Library.)


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## Scholiast

salvete!

You have two questions here, and our Moderator may wish to split them into distinct threads. I therefore answer them separately.

(i) _dicunt_: this or (in poetry especially) _ferunt_ means quite literally - as you probably know -  "they say". But "they" need not be, either in Latin or English, any specifically identifiable group of persons or individuals. It is tantamount to "It is said", "The story goes", "according to reports/legend/common belief". Indeed "they say" can be used in English in exactly this sense.


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## Lamb67

_that one following him they say was the priest who sacrificed captives to a god who often refuses them 

_Above is a giveaway English equivalent for the 2nd part sourced from Google Book on-line. It seems that dative/ablative case of _illo ministro the pries_t does not bear any reason neither from verb _dicunt_ nor _sequitur._How would you explain it please? And regard these two questions as inter-related please.


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## Scholiast

salvete!

(ii) _hic_ and _ille_: in prose, one would normally expect these demonstratives to refer consistently to the same, contrasted individuals ("the one...the other", "the latter...the former"). Having looked more closely at the passage of Ovid you quote, I suspect his intention is intended in a more impressionistic way: "This one...that one...; the next [i.e. a third]...another yet...and then another... &c.".

So to my mind what Ovid is suggesting, with verbal brushstrokes, is the variety and range of the many different captives, in appearance, in the roles they had played in the war they had unsuccessfully fought against the Roman forces, and of their emotional reactions to the plight in which they now find themselves. A few isolated details are picked out to indicate a much more comprehensive picture.

I shall try to explain the (ablative) grammar of _illo...ministro_ in a later post.


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## Scholiast

salvete!
_
illo...ministro_ is here a species of the (I believe uniquely) Latin ablative absolute construction. If you have a Latin grammar textbook, you should be able to find an explanation and some helpful examples by way of its index or the table of contents. Otherwise, try googling the phrase, "ablative absolute": various explanatory resources will show up, with, again, instructive examples.

[Note to Moderator - Cagey? - if this offends forum rules, please either pass it on to Lamb67 before deleting, else let me know and I shall send a PM.]


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