# ogarniać



## gabzz

hey,
i heard people use this a lot in poland but in many different situations. is there an english equivalent? (btw sorry if there are any spelling mistakes)
e.g. "ogarnij się"
"ogarnij ta surówka"
um... cant think of any other examples...
thx for any help


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## Rusak963

There are a few meanings, e. g. Ciągle robisz te same błędy. Weź się ogarnij! Here, it means _get yourself together. _Another would be: Ale tu jest brudno, weź mopa i ogarnij tu trochę. Meaning: clean the place up a little. I don't know how to explain your example. Maybe finish it up or something?


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## Niebo

I would say that it means something like "Check out this salad". I think _obczaj _has the very same meaning. My girlfriend also often says "Nie ogarniam" or "Nie ogarniam tego" while learning something which means "I don't understand it" (even though she do her best).


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## gabzz

omg im so confused


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## Rusak963

Niebo said:


> I would say that it means something like "Check out this salad". I think _obczaj _has the very same meaning. My girlfriend also often says "Nie ogarniam" or "Nie ogarniam tego" while learning something which means "I don't understand it" (even though she *does* her best).


Please don't do that.


gabzz said:


> omg im so confused


What's so confusing?


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## gabzz

well all the meanings and explanations can be used in any context really


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## majlo

Gabzz, could you please stick to the rules of these forums?


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## cyruslb

Ogarnij się ! Musimy się stąd wydostać ! - Get your shit together ! We gotta get out of here ! ( as about someone )

Ogarnij swój pokój, dzieciaku ! - Clean your room, kiddo !   ( as about a place )

Ogarnij ten projekt, chcę go mieć jutro rano na biurku  - Get this design done, I want it on my desk tomorrow morning ( as about a thing )


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## inter1908

"Ogarnij się" can also be used as "stop acting like an idiot" or "stop acting like you have no brain", like:
Some dumb kid: blablalblalblaslslsdssssassdddsdsdds (spamming the chat)
XYZ123: Ogarnij się ziomek...

By the way the correct infinitive is *ogarniać*.


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## BezierCurve

Just pointing out the difference in aspect: "ogarniać" (imperfective) vs. "ogarnąć" (perfective). 

Some fixed expressions work fine with only one of them (like: "Ogarnij się!", and hardly ever "Ogarniaj się!").


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## majlo

cyruslb said:


> Ogarnij się ! Musimy się stąd wydostać ! - Get your shit together ! We're gonna get out of here ! ( as about someone )



We gotta get out of here.


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## dreamlike

It merits a mention that this phrase is grossly overused and, to my mind, betokens either a very limited vocabulary or a language slothfulness (am I making a neologism here? ). I use it only when strapped for time.


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## kknd

sądzę, że „ogarnąć ‹coś/kogoś/się›” może być z powodzeniem zamienione na „doprowadzić ‹coś/kogoś/się› do porządku”; czy ktoś zauważył użycie tego wyrazu w innym sensie (poza „zrozumieć”)?… przyznam, że „ogarnąć” w moim domu zawsze znaczyło „posprzątać” (mniej lub bardziej)…


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## Ben Jamin

kknd said:


> sądzę, że „ogarnąć ‹coś/kogoś/się›” może być z powodzeniem zamienione na „doprowadzić ‹coś/kogoś/się› do porządku”; czy ktoś zauważył użycie tego wyrazu w innym sensie (poza „zrozumieć”)?… przyznam, że „ogarnąć” w moim domu zawsze znaczyło „posprzątać” (mniej lub bardziej)…



A ogarnąć coś  rozumem?


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## gabzz

majlo said:


> Gabzz, could you please stick to the rules of these forums?



what rules?


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## gabzz

is it like "sort out"?

for example "sort yourself out" or "sort this thing out"


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## dreamlike

Yeah, it sounds about right. I can think of another phrasal verb - *smarten up* but It might slightly differ from "ogarnąć się/coś". Its meaning is confined to those of appearance. 



> to (cause to) become more clean, tidy and stylish
> She's really smartened her*self* up since she left university.
> You'll have to smarten up if you want to work in television.


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## ryba

dreamlike said:


> It merits a mention that this phrase is  grossly overused and, to my mind, betokens either a very limited  vocabulary or a language slothfulness (...)



And that this usage is very recent. At least in Poznań, up until let's say three-four years ago, the only acceptable and widely understood meanings of _ogarniać_ were basically 'to encompass', 'to overwhelm/overtake [e.g. about a feeling]', 'take in [a sight]' and, colloquially, 'to tidy oneself up' (which could be paraphrased as _doprowadzić się do porządku_). All of these are standard Polish, universal to all generations. The "problem" is that the original meaning of _doprowadzić się do porządku _as 'to tidy oneself up' has extended to 'get things right' and can refer to any class of problem. „Weź (no) się ogarnij” refers to the interlocutor's ways. Thus, _nieogarnięty _started to mean 'roztrzepany, scatterbrained'. _Nieogar_ (formed by clipping) would be a noun designing such a person: "Ale z ciebie nieogar!" "Weź (no), ogarnij w końcu swoje życie" would mean 'Come on, why don't you finally sort your life out.' But that's not all. _Ogarniać_ also started to mean 'understand', probably by analogy to _pojmować_ 'comprehend', which is (cognitively) quite similar to _obejmować_ 'to encompass, (fig.) embrace.' This way, _ogarniać_ also came to mean something along the lines of 'embace/encompass with your mind' => 'understand.'



gabzz said:


> omg im so confused





gabzz said:


> what rules?



Like the one that says you should capitalize properly, use standard punctuation, and avoid chat speak. It's a language forum.


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## kknd

Ben Jamin said:


> A ogarnąć coś  rozumem?



genialne – tego mi brakowało! teraz widzę jak te wyrazy są powiązane; w mojej interpretacji: „rozumieć ‹coś›” = „ogarniać ‹coś› rozumem” = „doprowadzić ‹coś› w rozumie do porządku”, tzn. „uporządkować ‹coś› [sobie] w rozumie/głowie”.


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## LilianaB

To me those phrases mean only two things: pull yourself together or tidy up.


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## dreamlike

ryba said:


> And that this usage is very recent. At least in Poznań, up until let's say three-four years ago, the only acceptable and widely understood meanings of _ogarniać_ were basically 'to encompass', 'to overwhelm/overtake [e.g. about a feeling]', 'take in [a sight]' and, colloquially, 'to tidy oneself up' (which could be paraphrased as _doprowadzić się do porządku_). All of these are standard Polish, universal to all generations. The "problem" is that the original meaning of _doprowadzić się do porządku _as 'to tidy oneself up' has extended to 'get things right' and can refer to any class of problem. „Weź (no) się ogarnij” refers to the interlocutor's ways. Thus, _nieogarnięty _started to mean 'roztrzepany, scatterbrained'. _Nieogar_ (formed by clipping) would be a noun designing such a person: "Ale z ciebie nieogar!" "Weź (no), ogarnij w końcu swoje życie" would mean 'Come on, why don't you finally sort your life out.' But that's not all. _Ogarniać_ also started to mean 'understand', probably by analogy to _pojmować_ 'comprehend', which is (cognitively) quite similar to _obejmować_ 'to encompass, (fig.) embrace.' This way, _ogarniać_ also came to mean something along the lines of 'embace/encompass with your mind' => 'understand.'



I think the topic is exhausted now. It is a myriad of meanings which are the sole reason of my frown for the use of "ogarniać". You can replace a lot of words with "ogarniać", which leads to language barbarization or at the very least is a sign of language sloppiness.


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## Ben Jamin

dreamlike said:


> I think the topic is exhausted now. It is a myriad of meanings which are the sole reason of my frown for the use of "ogarniać". You can replace a lot of words with "ogarniać", which leads to language barbarization or at the very least is a sign of language sloppiness.



If you want avoid a sloppy language, do not speak slang. There are still enough people in Poland to talk who speak decent Polish.


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## majlo

How is slang sloppy?


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## dreamlike

You missed the point. "Ogarniać" has nothing to do with slang, people use it most often out of laziness. The omnipresence of "ogarniać", in numerous contexts is what sets my teeth on edge.


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## majlo

Where did I say it had anythnig to do with slang?


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## dreamlike

I was referring to Ben Jamin's post. Perhaps I should've quoted Ben Jamin's post to avoid misunderstanding but I thought we could do without it here


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## majlo

Indeed, you should have. 
By the way, to you it's laziness, to me it's economy.


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## dreamlike

We can achieve "kondensację treści" if that's what you mean by "economy" in many other ways, not necessarily using "ogarnąć" all the time. But I don't want to start a discussion on this. Let's agree to disagree


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## ryba

dreamlike said:


> You can replace a lot of words with "ogarniać"



As in "Weź ogarnij pocztę, bo ja jestem dzisiaj taka nieogarnięta, że nie ogarniam, co jest do mnie, a co nie."


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## dreamlike

Your sentence is a case in point, Ryba!


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## majlo

The repetition of the verb makes the sentence sound funny but the sense is conveyed perfectly.


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## dreamlike

majlo said:


> but the sense is conveyed perfectly.



Even if it is (I wouldn't be so sure about that) it doesn't change the fact that this sentence looks awful in terms of stylistics. What purpose does it serve to replace every second word with "ogarnąć"? As a rule, I'm tolerant of lax language but this is a gross exaggeration.


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## majlo

What purpose? The practical one. If a speaker finds it felicitous, why not? I'm not saying that triple repetition within a sentence is commendable; it never is, with any word, but why not say "nieogarnięta" rather than "roztrzepana", "nieprzytomna" or "ogarnij pocztę" instead of, say, "posegreguj pocztę"?

Could you please explain why you wouldn't be so sure about the meaning of the sentence?

EDIT: I just remembered. It's happening in a staff room.

I - me
S - my colleague (a history teacher, like 20 or so years more experienced than me  )

S: I jak z tą III c?
I: No cóż, mają trochę problemy z dyscypliną, ale są do... (nie zdążyłem skończyć)
S: ...ogarnięcia. No to dobrze.


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## dreamlike

majlo said:


> I'm not saying that triple repetition within a sentence is commendable; it never is



There is more to this sentence than a triple repetition. It's supplanting well-entrenched words by this overused "ogarnąć" that I find particularly objectionable. Say what you will, but I think we should safeguard our language against such "inventions". However, as I said, I entertain the possibility of using it when strapped for time.



majlo said:


> Could you please explain why you wouldn't be so sure about the meaning of the sentence?



I would get it perfectly. But it doesn't apply for older people who are not familiar with the myriad of meanings of "ogarnąć". 



majlo said:


> S: I jak z tą III c?
> I: No cóż, mają trochę problemy z dyscypliną, ale są do... (nie zdążyłem skończyć)
> S: ...ogarnięcia. No to dobrze.



I find it hardly surprising. This word gained such widespread popularity that even some of my teachers use it. But still, I detest it


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## BezierCurve

Yes. The older generation came up with other universal words. Due to the high standards here not to be quoted though.


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## majlo

Dreamlike, supplanting well-entrenched words? So what? We should safeguard our language? You sound like Sarkozy while "ogarnąć" is not even a frigging borrowing, Englishism or whatnot. That's what language is about, dynamics, it changes all the time, and it disregards those who might not catch up. I find "ogarnąć" a perfect choice in many contexts and I will always go for it whenever I can.


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## dreamlike

majlo said:


> You sound like Sarkozy while "ogarnąć" is not even a frigging borrowing, Englishism or whatnot.



It's no good losing your temper like that (złość piękności szkodzi ) but it isn't the first you're being frigging abrasive towards other users of this board so it makes little impression on me. As for Sarkozy part, I'll take that as a compliment. As regards the "ogarnąć" I just see red hearing this word again and again, in most surprising contexts. I hope it's just a temporary phenomenon and people will realise how funny they sound saying, for instance, "Ogarnij te sznurówki" instead of "Zawiąż te sznurówki". But for the time being, let's agree to differ. Have fun using "ogarnąć"


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## majlo

Who's losing temper? Do you want to say that you take that as losing temper?  I'm not losing my temper, I did mean what I said. Maybe I should've elaborated on my statement that you sound like Sarkozy who wanted to safe the French computing language because there are too many English borrowings in that field (which you might not have known). I wish him good luck just as I wish _you _​good luck safeguarding the Polish language from "ogarniać". 

By the way, don't expect political correctness from me. I say what I mean.


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## dreamlike

I wouldn't equate Sarkozy's idea with my attitude towards "ogarniać". It's a faulty comparison. English borrowings might be necessary in IT and there is plenty of them, judging from what you say. Using ogarniać can't be deemed necessary and it's a single word. Maybe I took it too far when I said "we should safeguard the Polish language from "ogarniać", do what you will, I couldn't care less.



			
				majlo said:
			
		

> Do you want to say that you take that as losing temper?



It was the usage of "frigging" that I thought of as you losing your temper. Nevermind. 



> By the way, don't expect political correctness from me.



I'm also far from being politically correct but what's the link between your post and not being PC? Saying that Sarkozy's idea was stupid you should be labeled as politically incorrect? Give me a break...


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## majlo

dreamlike said:


> Maybe I took it too far whan I said "we should safeguard the Polish language from "ogarniać"


And that's where the comparison has its roots. Your attitude towards "ogarniać" has nothing to do with what we are talking about. People will always have different attitudes towards things (thanks god!!!) but if you want to touch such universal things as "Leave the language alone", then I feel I must put in my two cents' worth. 



> do what you will, I couldn't care less.


So what are you doing on an Internet forum? 



> It was the usage of "frigging" that I thought of as you losing your temper. Nevermind.


It's an intensifier. And "alwaysmind". 



> I'm also far from being politically correct but what's the link between your post and not being PC?


The link is that you said I'm being abrasive towards other users. Call it what you want but I'm not going to hold my tongue just because it may contradict someone's opinion. I never insult anyone, but I will _always _say what I mean regarding language. 



> Saying that Sarkozy's idea was stupid you should be labeled as politically incorrect? Give me a break...


Where did I state so?


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## dolly_lamb

For me phrases with word "ogarniać" are connected with meaning "making sth work/clear". It doesnt matter if it is mess [ogarnij ten pokój] or reality [nie ogarniam rzeczywistości] in both cases you want something to be good and to cope with something simultaneously.


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## majlo

I'll just go on to say that I would never use "ogarnąć" in the context of shoelaces either.


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## dreamlike

majlo said:


> So what are you doing on an Internet forum?



As much as I detest the usage of "ogarnąć" in contexts other than cleaning up the mess or smartening up I know I can't dissuade people from using it, hence I wrote "do what you will, I couldn't care less". _"Świata nie zmienisz"_, as the polish saying goes. What does that have to do with me being on this forum?  



> Where did I state so?



So if you didn't mean Sarkozy's idea being stupid to be politically incorrect what was it in your post or previous posts then? "Saying what you mean regarding language" can hardly be regarded as politically incorrect but perhaps we have different definitions of PC.



majlo said:


> I'll just go on to say that I would never use "ogarnąć" in the context of shoelaces either.



But there are people who would and that's what annoys me. Those absurd contexts are not limited to the one with shoelaces. It is the point I want to get across ever since the discussion started - that "ogarnąć" is being overused and misused.


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## majlo

> As much as I detest the usage of "ogarnąć" in contexts other than cleaning up the mess or smartening up I know I can't dissuade people from using it, hence I wrote "do what you will, I couldn't care less". _"Świata nie zmienisz"_, as the polish saying goes. What does that have to do with me being on this forum?


Of course it rarely happens that you convince the other party, but it's always worth discussing things, right? If I'm discussing this matter with you, it means I do care what you think about it and why you use it in this way.



> So if you didn't mean Sarkozy's idea being stupid to be politically incorrect what was it in your post or previous posts then? "Saying what you mean regarding language" can hardly be regarded as politically incorrect but perhaps we have different definitions of PC.


The only mention of Sarkozy is here because you wanted to do the same as he did, safeguard the language, which to me is, well, not stupid maybe, but simply a silly idea.





> But there are people who would and that's what irksome to me. Those absurd contexts are not limited to the one with shoelaces. It is the point I want to get across ever since the discussion started - that "ogarnąć" is being overused and misused.


I'm sorry, I can't speak for others. Besides, that may be your experience. Mine is a bit different.


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## dreamlike

Might've been a bit unkind, for that I'm sorry  I think we should give it a rest, the topic seems exhausted.


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## perevoditel

cyruslb said:


> Ogarnij się ! Musimy się stąd wydostać ! - Get your shit together ! We gotta get out of here ! ( as about someone )
> 
> Ogarnij swój pokój, dzieciaku ! - Clean your room, kiddo !   ( as about a place )
> 
> Ogarnij ten projekt, chcę go mieć jutro rano na biurku  - Get this design done, I want it on my desk tomorrow morning ( as about a thing )



Generally OK, but I would add "Ogarnij tą stronę" - "Check this website out". Also @inter1908's explanation - "stop acting like idiot".


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