# cultureshed



## perpend

My own sentence: There is a vibrant cultureshed in this region.

The idea is that the culture of a region drains together. It all comes together. Synergy-style.

It's built on the idea of a "watershed" ... "Einzugsgebiet".

My try: Kultureinzugsgebiet

Das koennte hinhauen, aber that's just my imagination. It has a ring to it.


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## Frieder

Bei uns hat sich der Begriff Multikulti dafür entwickelt. Ich finde den nicht so schön. Aber man könnte es multikulturelle(s) Gebiet/Region/Zone nennen.


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## perpend

Thanks for thinking along, Frieder.

"Multi-kulti" verstehe ich eher als mutikulturell.

Ich meine ich es eher als eine Kultur, die zusammenläuft.

When I write that, I can see that it's really unclear. Thanks again for thinking along.

Es geht nicht um "Diversity" bei "cultureshed", aber irgendwie doch. Merde!


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## Demiurg

perpend said:


> It's built on the idea of a "watershed" ...



Hmmm. Eine "Wasserscheide" ist im Deutschen das genaue Gegenteil (_scheiden_ = _trennen_).  Wie konnte es zu dieser Bedeutungsumkehr kommen?


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## perpend

Bei "cultureshed" läuft die Kultur in einer Gegend in die gleiche Richtung wie bei einem "watershed".

Sorry, wenn ich mich nicht klar ausdrücke.


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## bearded

perpend said:


> in die gleiche Richtung wie bei einem "watershed".


Meinst Du, dass _watershed _nicht 'Wasserscheide' bedeutet? In diesem Fall würde im WRD etwas nicht stimmen.  Bei einer Wasserscheide laufen/fließen die Gewässer in zwei verschiedene oder entgegengesetzte Richtungen, soviel ich weiß.


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## Kajjo

See here: Drainage divide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A watershed separates the flowing, it does not combine flows.


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## berndf

perpend said:


> Sorry, wenn ich mich nicht klar ausdrücke.


It seems, you have misunderstood the English word _shed _as in _watershed_. It means the opposite of _confluence_; it means _separation, divide, parting company, divorcing _(compare German _Schiedung=divorce_). It is completely unrelated to the other English word _shed=light shelter_.


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## Dan2

There's an extended meaning of "watershed", which is actually the most common use of the word in the US: all the land whose streams feed into a given major river.  So "the Ohio River watershed" describes not a separation of waters, but a region of land.  I think that's where perpend is coming from.


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## manfy

Right! Wiki says that this is a special North American usage of the word:
_*In North America, the term watershed is commonly used to mean a drainage basin*, though in other English-speaking countries, it is used only in its original sense, to mean a drainage divide._​


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## bearded

After the above elucidations,it seems to me now that what perpend means is a sort of 'cultural melting pot': _Kulturen-Sammelbecken?_


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## berndf

Dan2 said:


> There's an extended meaning of "watershed", which is actually the most common use of the word in the US: all the land whose streams feed into a given major river.  So "the Ohio River watershed" describes not a separation of waters, but a region of land.  I think that's where perpend is coming from.


Ah! So, the meaning had been extended to mean *one *of the* sides *of a watershed and in a second step _Ohio watershed_ became synonymous with _Ohio basin_. That is definitely not possible in German. Like in non-NAmE, it would not be possible to say _Ohio watershed_. You could only speak of the _Mississippi-Ohio watershed_ or the _Ohio-Tennessee watershed_.


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> After the above elucidations,it seems to me now that what perpend means is a sort of 'cultural melting pot': _Kulturen-Sammelbecken?_


That sounds good to me.


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## JClaudeK

bearded man said:


> _Kulturen-Sammelbecken?_



Das wollte ich auch vorschlagen, (nachdem ich die Erklärungen für watershed in diesem Faden gelesen hatte), bin aber zu spät gekommen.


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## perpend

Thanks for the input. I didn't even know that "watershed" had other meanings! I've only known the one.  WR bildet.  Das wäre dann auch "Einzugsgebiet" oder? Aber, gute Idee, bearded, mit "Sammelbecken". Klingt gut.

Da ich hier "Kultur" im Sinne von vielen verschiedenen Sachen, die zu einer Kultur gehoeren, ist hier ein Unterschied?
1) Kulturen-Sammelbecken
2) Kultursammelbecken.

1) sounds more to me like multi-cultural, and as mentioned above, I don't mean that.
2) would sound good if it means all things cultural in an area sort of flowing together.

Hope that makes sense, and I'm sorry for any confusion. I realize it's kind of weird. I'm getting flashbacks of "Kultur" not always meaning "culture. 

Brainstorm: kulturelles Sammelbecken ?


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## Frieder

Was ist mit _Schmelztiegel _(melting pot)?


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## perpend

Sorry I didn't search for it sooner, but I found a definition:

*CULTURESHED (kul’cher-shed) noun*
1. A geographic region irrigated by streams of local talent and fed by deep pools of human and natural history. 2. An area nourished by what is cultivated locally. 3. The efforts of writers, performers, visual artists, scholars, farmers and chefs who contribute to a vital and diverse local culture.

Cultureshed is a term coined by Wormfarm co-founder Jay Salinas in 1998

Farm/Art Dtour

Apparently it is a "micro-regionally" known word.  Don't work this word into casual conversation. 

I'm just trying to convey the concept in German.


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## exgerman

Kajjo said:


> See here: Drainage divide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A watershed separates the flowing, it does not combine flows.


NO. This is a false friend.  _A_ _watershed_ is the area drained by a stream system._ Eine Wasserscheide _in fact separates watersheds from one another. The English term for _Wasserscheide _is_ a divide_. See for example the Continental Divide of North America.

Perpend is looking for a term that suggests an interplay of cultural forces in an area.


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## perpend

exgerman said:


> Perpend is looking for a term that suggests an interplay of cultural forces in an area.



That's really well-said, exgerman. Amen. I could not have put it so eloquently. That is exactly what I mean.


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## berndf

exgerman said:


> NO. This is a false friend.


Yes, this misunderstanding had already been resolved by Dan. It is a false friend between British English and American English, not between English and German. By and large, most of us here are more familiar with British then with American usage.


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## perpend

berndf said:


> By and large, most of us here are more familiar with British then with American usage.



That's interesting for me. I often think it's on the contrary. Wie bildest du deine Meinung diesbezüglich, bernd?

I guess it's some sort of happy medium between BrE and AmE.


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## berndf

perpend said:


> That's interesting for me. I often think it's on the contrary. Wie bildest du deine Meinung diesbezüglich, bernd?
> 
> I guess it's some sort of happy medium between BrE and AmE.


Because that's what we learn in school. We learn some AmE peculiarities but the basis of what we learn is BrE.


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## perpend

Okay. Thanks.


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## Frieder

Perhaps you're looking for "multikulturelles Sammelbecken"?


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## Kajjo

exgerman said:


> NO. This is a false friend.


Have you even read the thread before posting?! Would have been nice...

The Northamerican and British definitions might differ, but it is not a false friend with regards to German and English. In fact, the Northamerican usage is somewhat apart from the literal meaning.


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## Kajjo

perpend said:


> That's interesting for me. I often think it's on the contrary. Wie bildest du deine Meinung diesbezüglich, bernd? I guess it's some sort of happy medium between BrE and AmE.


I believe, berndf meant his statement particulary with repsect to _watershed_, not as general statement about American vs. British English.

With respect to _watershed_ I absolutely support his opinion, because British English has the same meaning as is established in European geology: Watersheds separate drainage systems from each other. That makes sense. To use _watershed_ to mean _one_ drainage system, I believe to be a laymen interpretation that went into general usage. The word has lost its literal meaning, which is quite strange anyway.

With regards to British vs. American English in general, I agree with you: It's a mxiture for most of us.


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## perpend

Okay. Thanks.


Kajjo said:


> With respect to _watershed_ I absolutely support his opinion, because British English has the same meaning as is established in European geology: Watersheds separate drainage systems from each other. That makes sense. To use _watershed_ to mean _one_ drainage system, I believe to be a laymen interpretation that went into general usage. The word has lost its literal meaning, which is quite strange anyway.



Can you find a source where "watershed" means what you say it means in the Isles?


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## Kajjo

@perpend: Posted in early in #7: Drainage divide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## bearded

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary (''simple definition'') mentions both meanings. According to the ''British'' definition, a watershed is _a ridge between two rivers._


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## Kajjo

Merriam-Webster's definition

_definition 1a: see 2 "divide"
definition 1b: a region...draining to particular watercourse
definition 2: "a crucial dividing point, line, or factor / Turning point" _

Interesting is the figurative meaning 2, which is close to the literal meaning of separation and follows the European geology. It seems, while the water-associated meaning changed in American English to mean _one drainage system_, the figurative meaning still has the separation notion.

Do Americans use _watershed_ in figurative meaning (divide / turning point)?


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## Hutschi

Hi, until now we have.


Schmelztiegel der Kulturen
Kulturelles Sammelbecken
Multikulturelles Sammelbecken

Considering the context, I think: "Schmelztiegel der Kulturen" is the best metaphor describing they are different at first but that there is a combining process, ending in a common culture with elements of all. Compare: Schmelztiegel – Wikipedia

"Sammelbecken" works, but it is a place where several cultures come together. It does not mean that they are uniting. (It does not forbid it neither.) (The Metaphor is not fully consistent with the original meaning of "Sammelbecken" for water.


PS: Wikipedia gives Berlin as example for a (cultural) melting pot.
2. PS: "Sammelbecken" has often a negative connotation. Compare what Google finds for "Sammelbecken Kultur"



> Führungsstreit bei der AfD Politisches Sammelbecken kurz vor dem Bersten ... SWR2 Kultur Streitschrift gegen die Haltung von Pegida Ein Sammelbecken für Islamkritik
> Mittelmeer: Sammelbecken für (Alb)Träume - cafebabel.com



There are also some positive results:
Example:


> Sep 7, 2007 - Der Tagesspiegel · Kultur · Kino; Filmkunstmesse Leipzig: Sammelbecken für deutsche Kinokunst.




I would not use it if you find another phrase.
------------------------------

Thanks for antagonyme "Watershed". I'm collecting such words.


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## Kajjo

I like "Schmelztiegel" (originally American English: _melting pot)_, because it is a well-known and establisehd phrase in context of cultures and works in both English and German. As Hutschi pointed out, a _Schmelztiegel_ combines cultures. 

On the other side, _Sammelbecken_ is a well-established term, too, and nicely reproduces the water connotation of culturedshed/watershed. As Hutschi pointed out, a _Sammelbecken_ conveys the notion of collection, yet not of combining.  I do not see _Sammelbecken_ as having a negative connotation, though. It might be used for all kinds of collections.


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## berndf

Kajjo said:


> I believe, berndf meant his statement particulary with repsect to _watershed_, not as general statement about American vs. British English.


Well, I did mean it_ in general_. The vocabulary in German school text books is primarily based on BrE usage. It has recently changed a bit. My daughter attends a German curriculum school in Geneva and they have explicitly learned both. This started with BrE vocabulary and later read AmE texts as well to offset that bias a bit. But when I went to school in Germany, all text books were based on BrE and "Americanisms" were only mentioned in side remarks if at all.


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