# pronunciation of g and k



## futuromadrileño

Hello,

I am beginning with Turkish and am working on pronunciation, and all sources I come across say that before a front vowel (e, i, ö, ü) the velar plosives g and k become palatalized ([ɟ] and [c], if you're familiar with the IPA).

However, I can never seem to hear this in Turkish speech. They always sound perfectly velar to me. One example: http://www.forvo.com/word/iyi_geceler/#tr

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
futuromadrileño


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## TekYelken

Hi futuromadrileño,

Good luck with Turkish . Are you sure this rule you are talking about does not apply only to the end of words?

For example, we say; *direk *(pole or beam) but when we add *i* or *e* to make derivatives, it becomes; *direği *or* direğe. *Here are other examples;

*Bölük* --> *bölüğü*, *bölüğe*
*sokak --*> *sokağı, sokağa*

I can't remember any other such rules. You better wait for other answers.


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## Rallino

> Hi futuromadrileño,
> 
> Good luck with Turkish . Are you sure this rule you are talking about does not apply only to the end of words?
> 
> For example, we say; *direk *(pole or beam) but when we add *i* or *e* to make derivatives, it becomes; *direği *or* direğe. *Here are other examples;
> 
> *Bölük* --> *bölüğü*, *bölüğe*
> *sokak --*> *sokağı, sokağa*
> 
> I can't remember any other such rules. You better wait for other answers.


No, I think he's talking about the different IPA transcriptions of the seemingly equal sounds, rather than the exceptions of the consonant harmony.

For example* gondol* is transcribed as / *g*ondoɫ / ; while *gönder* would be / *ɟ*øndɛɾ /.

Frankly, I really feel my tongue to be moving slightly differently when I pronunce these two g's. In the first word my tongue is positioned more towards the exit of my mouth, while in the second one, my tongue is just a little more stretched towards my cheeks. That might be the reason.


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## futuromadrileño

Thanks Rallino. Would you say, though, that pronouncing both like [g], as in English, would be acceptable? And same with k? It wouldn't come off as strange?


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## Rallino

It's certainly understandable that way too. However, English 'g' and 'k' are more on the back. Especially 'k'. 

What I would advise that you try is pronunce your 'k' at the position of 'ş' (English sh). The English sound 'sh' is a bit more forward than the English 'k', and I believe it's on the same spot as the Turkish 'k' (before e, i, ö, ü).

Let's say we have a little crustacean pet that we call 'Shelly' . And there is also a female name 'Kelly'. Try to pronunce this latter name, with a 'k' that is in the position of 'sh'. (You can do it by anticipating. Prepare your tongue as if you're going to say 'shelly', but don't pronunce anything, just have your tongue ready for a bright 'sh'. Then, without moving your tongue, try to produce a 'k'.) That would, I believe, be the Turkish 'k'.

This is, of course, if you're a perfectionist. You don't really have to change anything in your pronunciation. Pronuncing the words containining 'g' and 'k' _à la anglaise _is certainly not an obstacle for the comprehension.


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## Black4blue

Yes you can pronounce it as /k/ and /g/. It'll be still natural. But the point I didn't get is why you ask it. Doesn't it exist in English too? For example "Cat" and "Cool". _C in Cat_ is softer than _C in Cool_, isn't it?


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## futuromadrileño

No, in English we would pronounce the two sounds identically - [k]. There is no [c] in English, at least not in the American dialect.


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## Guner

It took me a while to differentiate "w" and "v" in "vein" and "wayne" in English when I first started. So I say give it a another year and you will hear the palatalized ones too. To me though the examples with the front vowels ö and ü are more distinguishably palatalized. Either way, I cannot think of any Turkish person who will pick on any of this detail in your pronounciation and hence they certainly wouldn't come off as strange.


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