# What is polite to say miss/ms/mam.....



## roniy

I know this issue is especially in the U.S 
But I have heared that saying mam or miss or ms is no polite even in a movie I have seen 
"Come out , mam" 
and she said him 
" Don't mam me"
 It was a movie about all the problems in the U.S.
Do you understand what I am trying to say ????


Thanks.


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## timpeac

roniy said:
			
		

> I know this issue is especially in the U.S
> But I have heared that saying mam or miss or ms is no polite even in a movie I have seen
> "Come out , mam"
> and she said him
> " Don't mam me"
> It was a movie about all the problems in the U.S.
> Do you understand what I am trying to say ????
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 
Not sure I do, Ronjy, but I wonder if she thought she was too "young" to be called "ma'am" by someone.


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## grumpus

Hi,
yes, it was probably the context.
Miss/Mam/Mrs  are always polite.

Grumpus


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## roniy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Not sure I do, Ronjy, but I wonder if she thought she was too "young" to be called "ma'am" by someone.


 
That is the problem how you address women without concerning of her age or status????


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## timpeac

roniy said:
			
		

> That is the problem how you address women without concerning of her age or status????


 
Well, I'd better leave that to our US friends to answer - no one calls anyone "sir" or "madam" in the UK. Well apart from hotel receptionists and that sort of thing.


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## Lancearoni

Miss is an old terminology which has recently become "politically incorrect."  While most women would not mind being called by Miss, Ms or Ma'am, I would suggest not using Miss just to be safe.

"Ms." is the polite way to refer to a young woman, and also the correct terminology to use if you do not know if the woman is married.  

I personally reserve the use of "Ma'am" for women older than myself, as a way of respecting one's elders.


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## timpeac

Lancearoni said:
			
		

> Miss is an old terminology which has recently become "politically incorrect." While most women would not mind being called by Miss, Ms or Ma'am, I would suggest not using Miss just to be safe.
> 
> "Ms." is the polite way to refer to a young woman, and also the correct terminology to use if you do not know if the woman is married.
> 
> I personally reserve the use of "Ma'am" for women older than myself, as a way of respecting one's elders.


 
You would seriously say "come out, ms." ?


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## roniy

Lancearoni said:
			
		

> Miss is an old terminology which has recently become "politically incorrect." While most women would not mind being called by Miss, Ms or Ma'am, I would suggest not using Miss just to be safe.
> 
> "Ms." is the polite way to refer to a young woman, and also the correct terminology to use if you do not know if the woman is married.
> 
> I personally reserve the use of "Ma'am" for women older than myself, as a way of respecting one's elders.


 
Can you use "Ms." without putting her name after?


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## river

Unless they look over 40, it's "Miss". At worst you're implying that they look younger than they are.


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## roniy

river said:
			
		

> Unless they look over 40, it's "Miss". At worst you're implying that they look younger than they are.


 
But I am sure one of them is polite and not based on their age 
I know that is not a problem if you think they are younger but there should be something that don't look in their age.


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## Lancearoni

roniy said:
			
		

> Can you use "Ms." without putting her name after?



No, if you are going to use "Ms." or "Mrs." then you must include her name afterwards.  

If you are not including her name you would use Miss or Ma'am.


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## Lancearoni

roniy said:
			
		

> But I am sure one of them is polite and not based on their age
> I know that is not a problem if you think they are younger but there should be something that don't look in their age.




Unfortunately, regardless of which term you use it can be construed as having something to do with their age or marital status.

There is one other terminology you could use:  "Madam"  However, this term isn't used very often anymore.  You will hear used in old movies, though.  

You could call a girl who is 5 years old "madam" just as you could call an 85 year old woman "madam".

It is a VERY polite term (more polite than Ms. Mrs. Ms. or Ma'am).  About the only time I hear it used any more would be in the context of a butler speaking with house guests

For example, 

"Can you show me to my room?"
"Certainly.  Right this way, madam"


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## rpleimann

river said:
			
		

> Unless they look over 40, it's "Miss". At worst you're implying that they look younger than they are.




Personally, I like to be called "ma'am" by someone younger than me, and "miss" by someone older than me.  But that's just personal preference;  I'm sure someone living here in Ohio might debate that.  By the way, I'm 40.


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## boonognog

I would *never* call a 5-year-old girl "madam".  I can't imagine a circumstance where that would even enter my head.  Girls under the age of 18 are *always* "miss"... unless they are married.

As for the issue of how to address a woman if you are asking her to leave, technically it's impolite to say, "Come out."  A more polite phrase would be "After you", if you are waiting to leave as well.  If you are just holding the door for the woman, the safest thing to do would be to just hold the door open and be quiet.


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## Lancearoni

boonognog said:
			
		

> I would *never* call a 5-year-old girl "madam".




Personally, I wouldn't really call *anyone *madam.  However in the example I gave with the butler, in the interest of being extremely polite I believe a butler would even refer to a 5-year old girl as madam


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## maxiogee

A five-year-old may be a Miss, but many a one is 'a proper little Madam'!


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## boonognog

I've never had a butler and never been a butler, but I do know that even boys are referred to as "master", rather than "mister"... So I would expect that even butlers would shudder at calling a little girl "madam".

Of course I could be wrong.


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## Stedington

ma'am, Miss, and the like are very polite to say to ..usually older or slightly older woman. 

I beleive the reference your are talking of is "To Kill A Mockingbird". The "ma'am" was a Mayella Ewell..Who in her standard day to day life..Was usually looked down on by the other people in the town, therefore never being called ma'am or miss.


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## Harry Batt

I  call most strange women "Cherie" and I always garner a smile. Never a complaint.  Just to spread a little cheer, I like to wink and use Miss for any woman over 40. The worst that ever happened was a time when  the lady said, "_That _will get you in trouble."


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## te gato

Ok. 
Here Miss is for younger  say up to 20ish, 
Ms is for divorced or older (not married), 
Ma'am is if you are from the farm, 
and never call me Madam! A madam is the "boss" of a whore house.  
It is so much easier just to say 'this way please" or "after you"
as long as you are polite it doesnt matter.


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## mplsray

roniy said:


> I know this issue is especially in the U.S
> But I have heared that saying mam or miss or ms is no polite even in a movie I have seen
> "Come out , mam"
> and she said him
> " Don't mam me"
> It was a movie about all the problems in the U.S.
> Do you understand what I am trying to say ????
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 
Allow me to address the question of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation.

The titles of courtesy used with a name, _Mrs., Miss,_ and _Ms._ are capitalized. In the US, _Mrs._ and _Ms._ end with a period (full stop). _Madam_ is used as a title in such expressions as _Madam President_ and _Madam Chairman,_ and in such a use is capitalized. _Madame_ is used as a title even more rarely: As it says in the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, "used as a title equivalent to _Mrs._ for a married woman not of English-speaking nationality." An example is _Madame Blavatsky,_ for Helena Blavatsky, a Russian spiritualist and writer.

The words _ma'am_ and _miss,_ used as polite terms of address, are not capitalized. The conventional spelling of the first term of address is just that, _ma'am._ _Ms._ is not used in this way--the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, for example, shows _Ms._ as being capitalized and as being used as a substitute for _Miss_ or _Mrs.--_capitalized, thus used as titles of courtesy rather than as polite terms of address. The polite term of address _madam_ is used rarely, by those who are taught when they must use it (a man seeking to be a butler, for example, would nowadays go to school, where he would be taught about the use of _madam_).

When addressing a stranger, when to use _ma'am_ and when to use _miss_ is tricky, and you would occasionally find the woman criticizing you if you used a term which she considered inappropriate.


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## Misled Youth

I have a question on this context.

I am quite fimiliar with the use of Ms., Mrs., Mr.. But the place where i work, we use M/s. here to address letters to a company.

I never heard of M/s. before. 

Is it right?


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## Alan Oldstudent

timpeac said:


> Well, I'd better leave that to our US friends to answer - no one calls anyone "sir" or "madam" in the UK. Well apart from hotel receptionists and that sort of thing.


I use "Ms," "Miss," or "Mrs" when I know the last name and I am not on first-name basis with them. If I wish to get the attention of a woman I don't know, I may say something like "excuse me lady," "excuse me miss," or if the person is close to my age, "excuse me ma'am." If the woman is much younger than I am, I might say "Excuse me young lady," which is my way of being polite.

In the US, we use "sir" and "ma'am" a lot more than do the English, something my British-born wife noticed when she first came here. 

In the southern United States, and among many African Americans, a younger person may call an older person they know rather well, such as a neighbor, Mr Alan if Alan is the first name. My neighbors, who are southerners and quite a bit younger than me call me "Mr. Alan" and my wife "Miss Margaret" (her first name), even though she is married, as a way of showing us respect.

Regards,

Alan


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## subtitler

I would correct anyone who would call me anything other than Ms. That is the only word that doesn't classify me as a woman to be this or that age or define me on the basis of what I am to a man.


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## Alan Oldstudent

subtitler said:


> I would correct anyone who would call me anything other than Ms. That is the only word that doesn't classify me as a woman to be this or that age or define me on the basis of what I am to a man.


That's the whole point. When you say "_that doesn't classify me as a woman to be this or that age or define me on the basis of what I am to a man_," you are saying you want people to treat you with respect and as a person in your own right. 

My experience is that once in a while, a woman will correct me if I say "miss," "lady," or "ma'am." When that happens, I usually just say something polite, using "Ms." It is never a huge issue because the woman almost always realizes that I wish to be appropriate, and such corrections almost never seem awkward.

I think that Ms is always appropriate, although on very rare occasion, I have met women who correct me and ask me to call them "Mrs. Smith" instead of "Ms. Smith." 

Regards,

Alan


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Some people of lower social or economic status and who do not themselves have very good manners might think that if anyone of education, or prestige, or high social position called them "sir" or "ma'am" it must be mockery, and not a sincere attempt to treat them with respect.  They would have this idea because they themselves treat no one with respect, and so they do not understand the motivation of others.  This would bring about a response such as "Don't _ma'am_ me", and it would mean "Don't make fun of me by calling me by such a respectful title."  On the other hand, in the US even the poorest and least educated people who have good manners would not think it at all inappropriate to be addressed by terms of respect from strangers, no matter how important or powerful those strangers were.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

subtitler said:


> I would correct anyone who would call me anything other than Ms. That is the only word that doesn't classify me as a woman to be this or that age or define me on the basis of what I am to a man.


 
"Ms." is not a word used to address a woman in place of a name; it is only used n combination with a last name, and never by itself. To use it without a last name and to say "Can I help you, Ms?" or anything of the kind is absurd. If I said to a woman whose name I do not know "Excuse me, ma'am ..." and she "corrected" me by sayig "No -- _You must say 'Excuse me, Ms.'!_", I would consider that woman to be not merely ignorant, but ridiculous.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Misled Youth said:


> I have a question on this context.
> 
> I am quite fimiliar with the use of Ms., Mrs., Mr.. But the place where i work, we use M/s. here to address letters to a company.
> 
> I never heard of M/s. before.
> 
> Is it right?


 
No. I have no idea what it is supposed to mean, either. It would seem to say that if you are a woman you are "Ms. Smith", but if you are a man you are "M. Smith".

If one cannot figure out from the first name whether the person receiving the letter is male or female (such as "Taylor Smith"), one could write the whole name as "Dear Taylor Smith", which would sound a bit unnatural but would not be nearly as impolite as the form your company uses. If all you have is a last name, you could write "Dear Sir or Madam".


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## tinlizzy

I found M/s but cannot figure out what it stands for either.
http://www.indiaspace.com/pages/kapandit.htm

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?capId=20961523

Seems to be an Indian title...found several more.


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## timpeac

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Some people of lower social or economic status and who do not themselves have very good manners might think that if anyone of education, or prestige, or high social position called them "sir" or "ma'am" it must be mockery, and not a sincere attempt to treat them with respect. They would have this idea because they themselves treat no one with respect, and so they do not understand the motivation of others. This would bring about a response such as "Don't _ma'am_ me", and it would mean "Don't make fun of me by calling me by such a respectful title." On the other hand, in the US even the poorest and least educated people who have good manners would not think it at all inappropriate to be addressed by terms of respect from strangers, no matter how important or powerful those strangers were.


How do you know? When you hear this have you asked them if they are of lower social or economic status, and if you have have you asked them if they, moreover, do not have very good manners? Do you fall into this group and are thus talking from personal experience or if not are you just putting your own interpretation on others' comments? Do all people of lower social or economic status who do not themselves have very good manners act this way or is it only those who fall into this group but do themselves not treat others with respect? Is this a concept you've noticed just locally or something that may happen with all people in the English speaking world who are of lower social or economic status who do not themselves treat others with respect? How much education, or prestige, or high social position in their interlocutor is necessary to cause this reaction?


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## Alan Oldstudent

tinlizzy said:


> I found M/s but cannot figure out what it stands for either.
> http://www.indiaspace.com/pages/kapandit.htm
> 
> http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?capId=20961523
> 
> Seems to be an Indian title...found several more.


Could be. There is a standard Indian English variety, and I think there are about 125 million Indians who have English as their first language. I don't know much about it. Are there any speakers of Indian English here who might enlighten us?

Regards,

Alan


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## nichec

roniy said:


> I know this issue is especially in the U.S
> But I have heared that saying mam or miss or ms is no polite even in a movie I have seen
> "Come out , mam"
> and she said him
> " Don't mam me"
> It was a movie about all the problems in the U.S.
> Do you understand what I am trying to say ????
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 
Oh well, I remember something similar in the movie "Sweet Home Alabama"

--What do you want me to say?
--How about "How's it going, honey?" ?
--Don't honey me!

I think it just means "I am not pleased when you call me that" or "Don't you dare".

And yes, I will be pleased if you call me Miss nichec (or "a lady" )


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## GreenWhiteBlue

timpeac said:


> How do you know? When you hear this have you asked them if they are of lower social or economic status, and if you have have you asked them if they, moreover, do not have very good manners? Do you fall into this group and are thus talking from personal experience


 
As it so happens, I do fall into this group. I come entirely from an uneducated working class background, and unlike a good many Britons who seem to have a problem with such an ancestry (and have all sorts of psychological baggage related to the idea of social class in general), I am not the least bit ashamed to admit it. My grandfather was a sanitation worker (that means he threw cans of garbage into the back of a dump truck.) My grandmother was a chamber maid. All the same, we knew the difference between good manners and poor manners, and that such a difference did not depend on either money or education or social status. 



> or if not are you just putting your own interpretation on others' comments? Do all people of lower social or economic status who do not themselves have very good manners act this way or is it only those who fall into this group but do themselves not treat others with respect?


Indeed I may be putting my own interpretation on the comments of others, but the comments of others are sometimes so explicit and direct that it does not require much effort to determine how they should be interpreted. I worked as a policeman walking a beat in crime-ridden slum neighborhoods in Brooklyn. I noticed that people who were unquestionably poor and uneducated but also obviously honest and respectable were quite pleased and happy when I addressed them as "Sir" and "Ma'am", as I invariably did, while the only men who took offense at being called "Sir", and who assumed that I was mocking them (and I knew they assumed it because they said so), were those who were never polite or respectful to anyone. Do tell me what your own similar personal experience has been like in this regard (as I am sure that you must have some), as I am most curious to know if it is like or unlike my own. 



> Is this a concept you've noticed just locally or something that may happen with all people in the English speaking world who are of lower social or economic status who do not themselves treat others with respect? How much education, or prestige, or high social position in their interlocutor is necessary to cause this reaction?


I was speaking of American usage only. Perhaps you can tell us all what experience you have had when you addressed people as "sir" and "ma'am". I mean, you DO address people this way commonly, don't you?


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## sdgraham

This is more a social question than language and has changed over the years. The "Ms" thing came into being in the 1960's with the so-called Women's Liberation Movement and has kind of stuck since it's convenient and one doesn't have to worry about marital status.

As mentioned, "ma'am" is a contraction of "madam," which one hears seldom these days, but a few decades ago there was a popular musical play entitled "Call me Madam."

One could spend a lot of time on this as a thesis, I suppose, since there are many scenarios. If, for example, I'm speaking with a woman in here 20's, I would normally say "Miss" unless:
 - she had her children with her.
 - she was obviously pregnant
 - her husband was with her.

And then there's case of special occupations, e.g. doctor, nurse, police officer, etc.

And, not all females feel the same way about these things.

Good luck,


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## Dimcl

te gato said:


> Ok.
> and never call me Madam! A madam is the "boss" of a whore house.


 
That's why I prefer "Madam*e*".  Can't imagine that gal running a brothel!


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## nichec

Dimcl said:


> That's why I prefer "Madam*e*". Can't imagine that gal running a brothel!


 

Yes, Madame Bovary is innocent, ladies and gentlemen!


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## Misled Youth

Alan Oldstudent said:


> Could be. There is a standard Indian English variety, and I think there are about 125 million Indians who have English as their first language. I don't know much about it. Are there any speakers of Indian English here who might enlighten us?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alan


 

To be honest with you guys, I was raised in an Indian environment and I studied Indian English. But i never came accross "M/s" before. 

Here I work in an Arab Company, and we deal with other Arab companies. The letters we send out have "M/s", but the strangest part is that the letters we recieve are also addressed to us as "M/s"

Could any Arab or Indian friends help us out here..?

Thanks!


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## Alan Oldstudent

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> As it so happens, I do fall into this group. I come entirely from an uneducated working class background, and unlike a good many Britons who seem to have a problem with such an ancestry (and have all sorts of psychological baggage related to the idea of social class in general), I am not the least bit ashamed to admit it. My grandfather was a sanitation worker (that means he threw cans of garbage into the back of a dump truck.) My grandmother was a chamber maid. All the same, we knew the difference between good manners and poor manners, and that such a difference did not depend on either money or education or social status.
> 
> 
> Indeed I may be putting my own interpretation on the comments of others, but the comments of others are sometimes so explicit and direct that it does not require much effort to determine how they should be interpreted. I worked as a policeman walking a beat in crime-ridden slum neighborhoods in Brooklyn. I noticed that people who were unquestionably poor and uneducated but also obviously honest and respectable were quite pleased and happy when I addressed them as "Sir" and "Ma'am", as I invariably did, while the only men who took offense at being called "Sir", and who assumed that I was mocking them (and I knew they assumed it because they said so), were those who were never polite or respectful to anyone. Do tell me what your own similar personal experience has been like in this regard (as I am sure that you must have some), as I am most curious to know if it is like or unlike my own.
> 
> 
> I was speaking of American usage only. Perhaps you can tell us all what experience you have had when you addressed people as "sir" and "ma'am". I mean, you DO address people this way commonly, don't you?



People of good will usually understand a sincere attempt to be polite and appreciate that. In my experience, if a person asks me to call them "Ms" instead of "Mrs" or "Miss," I interpret that as being a non-hostile request, as it almost always is. 

My wife is British, and when she was first here (in the USA), she was surprised to hear how often I used "Sir," "Mrs," "Ms" and "ma'am." I gather that in the UK, one uses these forms of address most frequently when addressing those of a higher social class. It seems to me that in the USA, using such terms are not associated with class, and to an American, it does not seem odd to hear a doctor or lawyer address a day laborer as "Mr. Smith." It's not that America is a classless society. It most certainly is. But the forms of address do not vary according to the class of the speaker and the person addressed.

I like the term "Ms" for the same reason so many women do. In business or professional encounters, one can maintain a comfortable distance, avoid being unnecessarily personal in too obtrusive a manner. For example, if I meet a woman who hands me her business card and I wish to address her by her last name, calling her "Ms Smith," that often is more comfortable than calling her "Jane" or "Mrs. Smith." I can avoid making personal assumptions. For this reason, I am glad this word has come into American English. I think it helps create civility.

To me, the essence of good manners is graciousness. The manner of expressing such graciousness differs from culture to culture, and even region to region, in such heterogeneous countries as the USA and UK. But the underlying concept of consideration and respect remains the same.

Regards,

Alan


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## shangshui

What is the difference among Mam, Ma'am, and Madam? Why are there three forms? Are they pronouced the same?


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## worldsigner

I believe Mam is a misspelling of Ma'am.  Ma'am was originally a shortened version of Madam/Madame (from 1660-1670 according to my Random House Webster's College Dictionary).  Ma'am is used much more often than Madam/Madame in the US.  I would guess many English speakers don't know that Ma'am is from Madam/Madame and that is the reason it is often misspelled as Mam.


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## mplsray

shangshui said:


> What is the difference among Mam, Ma'am, and Madam? Why are there three forms? Are they pronouced the same?



The words _madam, madame,_ and _ma'am,_ uncapitalized, are polite terms of address. The word _madam_ is pronounced "MA-duhm," where the "a" is the vowel in_ cat _and "uh" is the schwa. The word _madame_ is pronounced "muh-DAM" or "ma-DAM." The word _ma'am_ is pronounced "mam." The word _mam_ is a nonstandard spelling for _ma'am.

_The words_ Madam_ and_ Madame,_ capitalized, are titles of courtesy. _Madam_ is pronounced like _madam_ and _Madame_ like _madame,_ except that _Madame_ can also be pronounced "MA-duhm."

The word _madam_ was borrowed from French in the 14th century. The word_ ma'am_ is a 17th century contraction of _madam._ The word _madame_, also 17th century, is a reborrowing from French.

The above pronunciations and dates come from the Merriam-Webster Collegiate.


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## timpeac

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> I was speaking of American usage only. Perhaps you can tell us all what experience you have had when you addressed people as "sir" and "ma'am". I mean, you DO address people this way commonly, don't you?


No - never at all. People in the UK - in general speech and in my experience - never do. It really stands out for us when you see an American film and, for example, the prospective boyfriend meets his love interest's parents and it's "Pleased to meet you, Ma'am" and "How are you, Sir?"

Here, the police use them - and perhaps some others in positions of authority - and schoolchildren may use "Sir" and "Miss" (always "Miss", even when you know she is married and never "Ma'am") and the Queen is addressed as "Ma'am". Other than that the two words are not in common usage here as a form of direct address.

I don't think we have an alternative either - if you stop someone to ask for directions in the street, you'd certainly say  "excuse me, can you tell me the way to..." but not "excuse me, Sir, can you tell me the way to...". I think many people would stick a "mate" in there instead - but that's hardly of the same register.


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## mplsray

sdgraham said:


> This is more a social question than language and has changed over the years. The "Ms" thing came into being in the 1960's with the so-called Women's Liberation Movement and has kind of stuck since it's convenient and one doesn't have to worry about marital status.



The Women's Liberation Movement adopted an already-existing term. _Ms._ was coined in 1949 and used in business correspondence when addressing a woman whose marital status was unknown.


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## panjandrum

timpeac said:


> No - never at all. People in the UK - in general speech and in my experience - never do. It really stands out for us when you see an American film and, for example, the prospective boyfriend meets his love interest's parents and it's "Pleased to meet you, Ma'am" and "How are you, Sir?"
> [...]


I agree with Timpeac's assessment.  I have not used any of these terms for decades, and I am very rarely been addressed as sir.  That is not to say that my life is empty of courtesy.  Such terms of apparent respect can be use with complete insincerity.  Courtesy and graciousness can be expressed without them.





Alan Oldstudent said:


> [...]
> To me, the essence of good manners is graciousness. The manner of expressing such graciousness differs from culture to culture, and even region to region, in such heterogeneous countries as the USA and UK. But the underlying concept of consideration and respect remains the same.
> [...]


I suspect that this is a change that has taken place here over the last fifty years or so.  By now, it has come to the point where I am startled by use of these expressions.


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## Alan Oldstudent

mplsray said:


> The Women's Liberation Movement adopted an already-existing term. _Ms._ was coined in 1949 and used in business correspondence when addressing a woman whose marital status was unknown.


That's an interesting fact. I checked it out and you're right. I don't remember hearing or seeing the term until the 1960s. I suspect is was not common before then.

Regards,

Alan


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## panjandrum

Please note that this thread is about when it is polite miss/ ms/ ma'am.
It is not about whether Miss, Ms or Mrs is appropriate, or the origins of any of them.
For that topic, please see Miss or Mrs or Ms ?


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## Opalsfire

Well I was born and raise in the southern region of the U.S. and I was always told to address a lady with either miss or ma'am. Even now I refer to adults that are older than me as Miss. (first name) or Mr. (first name) even if they are my friends. This is a respectful term, and I was taken aback when the first parent of a friend advised me to just use their first name, or not to refer to them as Mrs. (last name). In our family if they are very close friends (almost family) if the person is comfortable they can call them Aunt or Uncle as well, but for the most part Miss (first name) or Mr.(first name) is an affectionate term. I also find that yes/no sir/ma'am is hardly ever gawked at especially by children, in fact my daughter usually gets complimented or thanked for her manners. 

I refer to women who appear to be younger than about 25 as miss unless even if they do have a gentleman with them, though I find it prudent to call any woman under about 30 miss regardless as it is found to be flattering. Any woman who is definitely older than myself I refer to as ma'am. If they are offended I apologize and normally will say "I am sorry, I meant no disrespect."

I have when I was younger when referred to as ma'am advised the person that  my mother was a ma'am and that I was not. I do believe this appeared rude in hind site though it was not meant to be. I have never heard nor used someone refer to a woman as Ms unless it was followed by a last name, and I personally would find it awkward to say. I now tend to be referred to as ma'am, and I am finding it respectful, though anymore I find most people and children in particular are not likely to, unless they were raised by parents that were raised by a generation that expected that, and most I have found were southern.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

[Edit - did not realize at first that this was an old, resurrected thread!]


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