# anche i ricchioni piangono



## prowlerxpla

In un famoso film degli Squallor, Uccelli d'italia, c'è una una scenetta comica che coinvolge due omosessuali maschi che alla fine piangono; e la scenetta si conclude con la sentenza:
"anche i ricchioni piangono", parafrasando la (probabilmente allora popolare , qui) telenovela "anche i ricchi piangono"; adesso, 
-nei paesi di lingua Inglese come si chiama questa telenovela??
-nel caso in cui in Inglese sia usata la parola "rich" o "riches", come tradurre in Inglese la parola "ricchioni" in modo da avere una assonanza con la parola "rich"?

Grazie per ogni consiglio ma mi riesce difficile spiegare in Inglese la cosa.


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## anglomania1

prowlerxpla said:


> In un famoso film degli Squallor, Uccelli d'italia, c'è una una scenetta comica che coinvolge due omosessuali maschi che alla fine piangono; e la scenetta si conclude con la sentenza:
> "anche i ricchioni piangono", parafrasando la (probabilmente allora popolare , qui) telenovela "anche i ricchi piangono"; adesso,
> -nei paesi di lingua Inglese come si chiama questa telenovela??
> -nel caso in cui in Inglese sia usata la parola "rich" o "riches", come tradurre in Inglese la parola "ricchioni" in modo da avere una assonanza con la parola "rich"?
> 
> Grazie per ogni consiglio ma mi riesce difficile spiegare in Inglese la cosa.


Hi there, I'm not sure I understand
What does "ricchioni" mean? I have always heard "ricconi" - without the "i" Is it a play on words? Referring to homosexuals?

As for the title of the film in English, if it's an Italian film, it's quite possible it was never shown/heard of/known in English. Only few Italian films are known by the English public - we don't dub and only use subtitles, so you can imagine they are not that popular!

As for translating "ricchioni" or "ricconi" you could use "the very rich" but if you mean "homosexual", I can't think of anything that would sound like "rich", and even if I could, it wouldn't mean much to the anglo-saxons because they don't know the film or the TV series you mention.
Hope this helps
Anglo


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## TimLA

Ciao,

Questa è una domanda molto interessante grazie al tuo link ma anche l'origine della parola "ricchioni" - QUA - un sinonimo per "gay".

La telenovela in Messico si chiama "Los Ricos También Lloran" - The rich also cry.

Pero l'etimologia della parola "ricchioni" è interessante - "pesanti orecchini".

Non so se sia possible mantenere il gioco di parole con un sinonomi di "gay".


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## danalto

TimLA said:


> Ciao,
> 
> Questa è una domanda molto interessante grazie al tuo link ma anche l'origine della parola "ricchioni" - QUA - un sinonimo per "gay".
> 
> La telenovela in Messico si chiama "Los Ricos También Lloran" - The rich also cry.
> 
> Pero l'etimologia della parola "ricchioni" è interessante - "pesanti orecchini".
> 
> Non so se sia possible mantenere il gioco di parole con un sinonomi di "gay".


Pesanti orecchini? Dove lo hai trovato???


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## TimLA

danalto said:


> Pesanti orecchini? Dove lo hai trovato???


 
Il link sopra.

http://nonciclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ricchione


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## italtrav

Actually, I think you might well get a joke out of the title if you used, "The Gay Cry Too." In that case, the pun turns on the double sense of "gay" as both joyful and homosexual.


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## rrose17

But since this program would be fairly unknown to any English viewer, any pun on the title would be lost. I was thinking of the late seventies and the program Dallas, which was wildly popular. The expression "Who shot J.R.?" was heard all the time, so something like "Who shot Gay R.?" Anyone besides me think this funny?  Too obscure?


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## Holymaloney

italtrav said:


> Actually, I think you might well get a joke out of the title if you used, "The Gay Cry Too." In that case, the pun turns on the double sense of "gay" as both joyful and homosexual.



Good one italtrav! 
Cheers


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## TimLA

rrose17 said:


> But since this program would be fairly unknown to any English viewer, any pun on the title would be lost. I was thinking of the late seventies and the program Dallas, which was wildly popular. The expression "Who shot J.R.?" was heard all the time, so something like "Who shot Gay R.?" Anyone besides me think this funny?  Too obscure?


In context, it's VERY funny!!!!!
Braaaaaaaaavvvvooooooooo!


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## danalto

italtrav said:


> Actually, I think you might well get a joke out of the title if you used, "The Gay Cry Too." In that case, the pun turns on the double sense of "gay" as both joyful and homosexual.



 I like it!


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## prowlerxpla

Maaany thanks guys, 





anglomania1 said:


> Hi there, I'm not sure I understand
> What does "ricchioni" mean? I have always heard "ricconi" - without the "i" Is it a play on words? Referring to homosexuals?


yes, "ricchioni means gay, and in this context is a play on words on "ricchi" that means rich



anglomania1 said:


> As for the title of the film in English, if it's an Italian film, it's quite possible it was never shown/heard of/known in English. Only few Italian films are known by the English public - we don't dub and only use subtitles, so you can imagine they are not that popular!





			
				TimLA said:
			
		

> Pero l'etimologia della parola "ricchioni" è interessante - "pesanti orecchini".


The issue is quite disputed, you can see also here, here, (Un'ipotesi molto più interessante fa derivare "ricchione" da hircus, cioè il caprone (animale immondo con abitudini perverse).
Qualcuno ha notato che in calabrese esiste il verbo arricchiare: la  capra in calore che desidera il caprone (hircus) arricchia, cioè si  avvicina al maschio. E quindi un arricchione è un maschio che  "arricchia", cioè che desidera essere montato.) and here


			
				italtrav said:
			
		

> Actually, I think you might well get a joke out of the title if you  used, "The Gay Cry Too." In that case, the pun turns on the double sense  of "gay" as both joyful and homosexual.


I like it


			
				italtrav said:
			
		

> The expression "Who shot J.R.?" was heard all the time, so something  like "Who shot Gay R.?" Anyone besides me think this funny?  Too obscure?


Very funny 
P.S. I think I will open a new thread about "navarra"


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## mrpatter

Well, there _is _a word that rhymes with rich and can have a gay reference.  But I'm not sure it would be a good choice.


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## prowlerxpla

mrpatter said:


> Well, there _is _a word that rhymes with rich and can have a gay reference.  But I'm not sure it would be a good choice.


Why are you so reticent? bitch? how close is to gay?


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## london calling

prowlerxpla said:


> Why are you so reticent? bitch? how close is to gay?


I gay maschi delle volte si chiamano "bitch" fra di loro (con il significato di "stronza"). Però, si usa anche per riferirsi alla donne: qui serve qualcosa che si riferisce ai maschi gay (se no, che battuta è?).

Gli Squallor me li ricordo benissimo.....terribili! They were politically *in*correct, to put it mildly.... Poi, in napoletano, a parte "ricchione" si dice anche "recchia" (orecchio-ear), non so se le due cose sono legate.


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## anglomania1

london calling said:


> Poi, in napoletano, a parte "ricchione" si dice anche "recchia" (orecchio-ear), non so se le due cose sono legate.


Exactly, when I said I hadn't heard of it, what I really meant was that here people say "orecchione", touching their ear as they say it!!
Anglo


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## giovannino

I'm baffled by the use of  for _bitch_ and _stronza _but not for _ricchione. _A learner of Italian reading this thread might come away with the false impression that it is a neutral word like _gay _when it is actually extremely offensive and akin to _fag(got) _or _poof(ter)._


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## anglomania1

giovannino said:


> I'm baffled by the use of  for _bitch_ and _stronza _but not for _ricchione. _A learner of Italian reading this thread might come away with the false impression that it is a neutral word like _gay _when it is actually extremely offensive and akin to _fag(got) _or _poof(ter)._


Yes, I agree, 
but maybe the English speakers on the forum, me included, didn't realise it was so offensive (I didn't even know what it meant at first)!
I think ProwlerXpa , who asked the question, is the only Italian on this thread apart from you, and the only person who has used it in a post -maybe he should have used  in his original post.
Anglo


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## giovannino

anglomania1 said:


> maybe the English speakers on the forum, me included, didn't realise it was so offensive


 
Just as well I pointed it out, then
Of course, the word can be used jocularly in a non-homophobic context but the same can be said of most of the offensive words we normally label with a  on this forum.


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## prowlerxpla

giovannino said:


> Just as well I pointed it out, then
> Of course, the word can be used jocularly in a non-homophobic context but the same can be said of most of the offensive words we normally label with a  on this forum.


Sorry for the issue, but really I don't consider ricchione an offensive word, it is used by my mother and my aunt that are 89 and 94 years old with no particular attention and no offense, here (Rome and nearby) can be used in any context.


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## giovannino

prowlerxpla said:


> Sorry for the issue, but really I don't consider ricchione an offensive word, it is used by my mother and my aunt that are 89 and 94 years old with no particular attention and no offense, here (Rome and nearby) can be used in any context.


 
Well, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree (in my case, _strongly _disagree) on that.


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## anglomania1

Hi to both, 
just a thought: I can't say for Italian, but I think that any words other than gay or homosexual are probably going to be offensive to some degree.
It is important *who *you are talking to - if you are talking among friends and nobody in the group is gay, you'll probably find that nobody will bat an eyelid if these words are used. If someone in the group is gay, then it's totally different - even though the word is the same.
It's also important *how *you say it.
I also think there are various degrees of offensiveness - this word "ricchione" is probably not the most offensive of all the existing words for gay, but it is still probably slightly offensive - especially if you are gay.

So you're both right, in a way!
Anglo


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## london calling

Giovannino, what I meant was that an English gay might say "bitch" to a male (gay) friend where an Italian gay might use "stronza" when speaking to a male (gay) friend....or at least that is my experience ( I have several gay British and Italian friends). _Ricchione_ is quite definitely offensive here in the South (I never use it).


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## anglomania1

london calling said:


> Giovannino, what I meant was that an English gay might say "bitch" to a male (gay) friend where an Italian gay might use "stronza" when speaking to a male (gay) friend..


Hi Jo, 
I think you read Giovannino's post the same way I did at first - then I read it again!!

At first I thought there was a word missing and that he wanted to say he didn't understand why a gy man would say "bitch" to another gay man.

After a second reading, I realised that he was saying  was that he didn't understand why we use the warning sign  for the words "bitch" and "stronza", but we don't use the same warning sign for "ricchione", because he says they are equally offensive.
Does that make sense?
Anglo


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## VolaVer

TimLA said:


> [...] "The rich also cry". [...]


My two cents: I like italtrav's solution, but if the title in English is the above, I think it should be "The gay also cry".
Or may I suggest "Even the gay cry".


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## anglomania1

VolaVer said:


> My two cents: I like italtrav's solution, but if the title in English is the above, I think it should be "The gay also cry".
> Or may I suggest "Even the gay cry".


Hi there, 
we often use "the + adjective" to refer to a group of people (the rich, the poor, etc), but it can't be used with all adjectives and I'm afraid we can't use it with "gay". 
I'm not sure why, maybe because "rich" is only an adjective, whereas we often use "gay" in the plural as a noun (I wouldn't use it in the singular though).
It would have to be "Gays cry, too" or "Also gays cry".
Hope this helps, 
Anglo


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## VolaVer

anglomania1 said:


> Hi there,
> we often use "the + adjective" to refer to a group of people (the rich, the poor, etc), but it can't be used with all adjectives and I'm afraid we can't use it with "gay".
> I'm not sure why, maybe because "rich" is only an adjective, whereas we often use "gay" in the plural as a noun (I wouldn't use it in the singular though).
> It would have to be "Gays cry, too" or "Also gays cry".
> Hope this helps,
> Anglo


 Thanks for pointing that out- it actually sounds much better to my ears too!
So, I could still say: "Even gays cry", right?


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## anglomania1

VolaVer said:


> Thanks for pointing that out- it actually sounds much better to my ears too!
> So, I could still say: "Even gays cry", right?


Yes, absolutely!!
Anglo


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## aggo

Ricchioni deserves the .

It's a word used in all the country but it comes from Campania (Napoli and nearby) mostly.

It is surely an offensive word, such as (I think) faggot .


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## london calling

anglomania1 said:


> Does that make sense?
> Anglo


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## zipp404

The use of these words to disparage gay people mirror the ignorance and the petty, vulgar (tacky) character of _those_ who use them.

.


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## giovannino

anglomania1 said:


> After a second reading, I realised that he was saying was that he didn't understand why we use the warning sign  for the words "bitch" and "stronza", but we don't use the same warning sign for "ricchione", because he says they are equally offensive.


 
That's exactly what I meant, Anglo, although I think that my post was quite unambiguous:



> A learner of Italian reading this thread might come away with the false impression that it is a neutral word like _gay _when it is actually extremely offensive and akin to _fag(got) _or _poof(ter)._


 
I'm glad to see that aggo and zipp agree with me. I'd be curious to hear from other members from Rome in order to find out whether they agree with prowlerxpla's amazing statement that "in Rome and nearby" the word ricchione is an inoffensive word that can be used "in any context". I myself believe that to be not only untrue but dangerously misleading for learners of Italian.


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## london calling

giovannino said:


> I'm glad to see that aggo and zipp agree with me. I'd be curious to hear from other members from Rome in order to find out whether they agree with prowlerxpla's amazing statement that "in Rome and nearby" the word ricchione is an inoffensive word that can be used "in any context". I myself believe that to be not only untrue but dangerously misleading for learners of Italian.


I also agree with you (and I said so)!


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