# Твое сердце пройде оружоемъ



## oprea_Rd

hello to you all!
I found this writing on a painting of Virgin Mary, it looks like a  slavic alnguage, maybe an antique language, I hope you can help me  translate it.
There might be some mistakes in my text hereunder, the letters on the painting are represented in handwrithing not case letters:

*mбoe cepдцe пpoйдe opyжoemъ*



I found out that "cepдцe" means "heart" but I couldn't find a clue about the others..
I'm not even sure is in russian language.
Any kind of advise is welcome, thanks!


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## Maroseika

This is Russian of course:
Твое сердце пройде оружоемъ

More common variant is Твое сердце пройдет оружие, from the kontakion for the Presentation of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Temple.
Full variant is: И Твое сердце нетленная, оружие пройдет, Симеон Богородице провозгласи, на кресте зрящи Твоего Сына, Ему же вопием: благословен Бог отец наших.

Literally: *The weapon will pass thru your heart*, meaning that the heart (soul) of Mary will be wounded too, when watching her crucified son.

I'm not sure whether inscription is made with grammar errors or according to the old rules. Anyway it was made before 1918 or according to the pre-1918 rules.


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## Awwal12

Maroseika said:


> This is Russian of course:
> Твое сердце пройде оружоемъ


Actually it's Church Slavonic (in Russian recension), not the Russian language.


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## Maroseika

Do you think it is written in correct Church Slavonic or with some errors? Оружоемъ means пройде is a participle, but it is a verb in 3rd person.
Also why оружоемъ if in RCS it is оружiе?


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## Awwal12

Maroseika said:


> Do you think it is written in correct Church Slavonic or with some errors?


Have no idea, to be frank. Probably with some mistakes. What still doesn't make it Russian, though.


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## Maroseika

Just check in the Church Slavonic grammar, and found that пройде is not CS, due CS form should have ended on -етъ. So it is not more Church Slavonic than Russian.
But пройде is correct Ukrainian form of Future Tense of пройти. This is not Ukrainian because all other words are not Ukrainian, so maybe it is Russian influenced by the Ukrainian (South Russian or kind of surzhik?).


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## oprea_Rd

Thank you all for all your help..
I was surprised to see so much interest, now what intrigues me even more is understanding what language is about in the phrase..
I have added a couple of photos of the writtings on the painting, it should be easier this way. What about the two grous of two letters on the second attachment? Any idea?


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## morzh

>>А Ты, о скорбная Мати, поникла главою у креста Сына Твоего, и оружие *пройде* Твое Матернее сердце.

Many akathists use exactly this form, "пройде". I looked at them (like this one)
http://lib.eparhia-saratov.ru/books/noauthor/unfading/1.html

and I am not sure this is Church Slavonic. It is too close to modern Russian - as I read the Gospels (like Ostromirowskij) in CS, they are not as readily understood by a person who knows regular Russian. But these are.


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## Maroseika

oprea_Rd said:


> I was surprised to see so much interest, now what intrigues me even more is understanding what language is about in the phrase..


Most likely Russian, but not modern, though not Ancient Russian.
By the way пройде is rather Past Tense than Future.



> I have added a couple of photos of the writtings on the painting, it should be easier this way. What about the two grous of two letters on the second attachment? Any idea?



This is мр and ѳу with a tittle above, meaning that the word is an abbreviation (or better say contraction of one word) - common thing in the icons.
ѳ - фита, pronounced like ф (f) - was used in Russian words of Greek origin on the place of Θ. 
*мр ѳу* stand for Greek Mρ Θυ = Μητερ Θεου - Mother of God. These letters often can be seen at the icons with Mary. 
By the way the image looks far not canonically Orthodox. What is it as a whole?


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## Valvs

I think it is an inauthentic attempt to write in Ancient Russian rather than in Church Slavonic.
"Проиде" definitely sound like an aorist form, which existed both in old/church Slavonic and in Ancient Russian (the latter is more commonly known in English as Old East Slavic or, sometimes, Old Russian). However, in Church Slavonic, the "у" sound (as in "ор*у*жие") was always represented by the digraph "оу" . Ancient Russian texts were inconsistent in that respect: some preserved the digraph, while others used the letter "y" pretty much like we do in modern Russian. Also, the letter "й" simply did not exist in the original Old Slavonic texts. It started appearing occasionally in church texts used in the Russian lands  around fourteenth century, I think, but it was not until much later that it was fully accepted  both in the church texts and in civilian writing. The cursive script of the inscription was not used until nineteenth century. (Not an expert here, but I have seen quite a few facsimiles of letters written in different times, and I don't think I have seen this type of writing (very similar to what is taught in schools now) until mid-nineteenths century).

"Оружое" just puzzles me. I think it is just illiterate, no matter what language it is written in.


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## Maroseika

Valvs said:


> The cursive script of the inscription was not used until nineteenth century. (Not an expert here, but I have seen quite a few facsimiles of letters written in different times, and I don't think I have seen this type of writing (very similar to what is taught in schools now) until mid-nineteenths century).


Actually the image itself is not very old in its style. Maybe the end of the 19th cent. or even later. 
Now I think I can agree this is just illitirate stylization.


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## Awwal12

morzh said:


> >>А Ты, о скорбная Мати, поникла главою у креста Сына Твоего, и оружие *пройде* Твое Матернее сердце.
> 
> Many akathists use exactly this form, "пройде". I looked at them (like this one)
> http://lib.eparhia-saratov.ru/books/noauthor/unfading/1.html
> 
> and I am not sure this is Church Slavonic. It is too close to modern Russian - as I read the Gospels (like Ostromirowskij) in CS, they are not as readily understood by a person who knows regular Russian. But these are.


There are many different "Church Slavonics", actually. Ostromir Gospels are written in Old Church Slavonic with some Ancient Russian influence (so it can be called early Church Slavonic of the Russian recension). And now compare that with the latest Russian Church Slavonic texts.


> But пройде is correct Ukrainian form of Future Tense of пройти.


Yes. But "оружоемъ" still hardly can be classified anyway.
Maybe Ruthenian?..  Just as one more guess.


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## Awwal12

Maroseika said:


> Now I think I can agree this is just illitirate stylization.


Probably, but on the other hand - stylization of what, a text initially written in Church Slavonic and widespread in that variant?..


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## Maroseika

Awwal12 said:


> stylization of what, a text initially written in Church Slavonic and widespread in that variant?..


Exactly. Pictorial kitsch and illiteral inscription go pretty well together.


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## yoysl

Valvs said:


> I think it is an inauthentic attempt to write in Ancient Russian rather than in Church Slavonic.
> "Проиде" definitely sound like an aorist form, which existed both in old/church Slavonic and in Ancient Russian.



Yes, пройде is the aorist of проити. This is the same form that exists, for example, in Христос воскрес*е*.



Valvs said:


> However, in Church Slavonic, the "у" sound (as in "ор*у*жие") was always represented by the digraph "оу" . Ancient Russian texts were inconsistent in that respect: some preserved the digraph, while others used the letter "y" pretty much like we do in modern Russian.



True, but the _u_ in оружие is etymologically a back nasal vowel (cf. OCS _orǫžije_), which has the reflex _u_ in East Slavic; cf. OCS rǫka, Russ. ruka. 



Valvs said:


> Also, the letter "й" simply did not exist in the original Old Slavonic texts. It started appearing occasionally in church texts used in the Russian lands  around fourteenth century, I think, but it was not until much later that it was fully accepted  both in the church texts and in civilian writing.



You're right. It's clearly not OCS also because of the denasalization in оружоемъ.



Valvs said:


> "Оружое" just puzzles me. I think it is just illiterate, no matter what language it is written in.



The only thing I can think of is that оружоемъ could be underlying _oružъjemъ_. The tense yer (i.e. -ъj-) would have been realized as _o_ in East Slavic (cf. *suxъjь > Russ. suxoj), giving the form we have here. I don't know why a back yer would be here (instead of a full vowel, or at least a front yer), but it might be possible. It's not clear to me what's happening here either.

Edit:
Also, -emъ is the dative plural ending, so the phrase here would actually read "the heart passed _to/for the weapons_". Makes little sense to me. It might be instrumental singular, if the final yer was confused with ь (i.e. they meant -emь), in which case "the heart passed _by the weapon_". This also makes little sense to me. I'm also in favor of the kitsch interpretation.


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## Valvs

yoysl said:


> True, but the _u_ in оружие is etymologically a back nasal vowel (cf. OCS _orǫžije_), which has the reflex _u_ in East Slavic; cf. OCS rǫka, Russ. ruka.



Ah, a good point.


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