# 三つの



## Diamondsmith

Hi. Should we pronounce 三つの as "mitsu no" or "mittsu no"?


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## xiaolijie

三つの as "mitsu no"


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## Diamondsmith

xiaolijie said:


> 三つの as "mitsu no"


 I heard people say mittsu no. So my ear is wrong.


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## xiaolijie

Diamondsmith said:


> I heard people say mittsu no. So my ear is wrong.


Actually, you're right and I'm wrong. It should be "mittsu no". I have to go and see why I said the wrong thing 

PS: I've seen how I went wrong now:

We've got: hito, futa, mi,...and then the counter "tsu" is attached to them, they should (in theory!) then become:
hitotsu, futatsu, *mitsu*,...
But, in real life, *mitsu* is actually read as "*mittsu*". That is life!!


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## Diamondsmith

xiaolijie said:


> Actually, you're right and I'm wrong. It should be "mittsu no". I have to go and see why I said the wrong thing


 Maybe you are right. Because the Japanese Romaji website gives both mittsu no and mittsu no. I am just not sure which is the Tokyo pronunciation.


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## Wishfull

Diamondsmith said:


> Hi. Should we pronounce 三つの as "mitsu no" or "mittsu no"?


 
I pronounce it as みっつの　(mittu-no).
I never say みつの　(mitsu-no).


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## Diamondsmith

Wishfull said:


> I pronounce it as みっつの　(mittu-no).
> I never say みつの　(mitsu-no).


Thanks. You mean native speakers never say  三つの as みつの? Then let's conclude this issue. 
BTW, some people pointed out that 三 is pronounced as みっつ in phrases, like 三つの物語, but as みつ in compound words, like 三菱 as Mitsubishi. Any good idea?


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## wathavy

Diamondsmith said:


> Thanks. .. but as みつ in compound words, like 三菱 as Mitsubishi. Any good idea?


I feel 'mittsu' is used for pointing out the sequence or the count of the item.
There are word such as 三つ目小僧 a monster with three eyes, but this is used for representing the name for this particular object.
While, 三つ目の交差点を右に曲がって then the usage for this case is to point out the sequence of the particular object.

I might as well say, that 'mittsu' may be pronunced when the term is adjective.
And 'mitus' is pronunced when the term is noun.


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## Diamondsmith

wathavy said:


> I feel 'mittsu' is used for pointing out the sequence or the count of the item.
> There are word such as 三つ目小僧 a monster with three eyes, but this is used for representing the name for this particular object.
> While, 三つ目の交差点を右に曲がって then the usage for this case is to point out the sequence of the particular object.
> I might as well say, that 'mittsu' may be pronunced when the term is adjective.
> And 'mitus' is pronunced when the term is noun.


Thanks. Your interpretation seems most illuminating. Only when 三 occurs with つ, it is pronounced as "mi" or "mit", I guess. It will be said as "san" when it stands alone as a number or modifies other classifiers, like 個, Perhaps other numbers like 1, 2, 4 (exclusive of 5,6,7,8,9, etc) behave the same? Or let's put it in another way: when 1, 2, 3, 4 occur with the indigenous classifier つ they will be pronounced as kundoku, and when they occur with kanji they will be pronounced as ontoku. Can I say that?


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## xiaolijie

It may be necessary to complete my earlier post so that the question may be settled for good (hopefully )


xiaolijie said:


> We've got: hito, futa, mi,...and then the counter "tsu" is attached to them, they should (in theory!) then become:
> hitotsu, futatsu, *mitsu*,...
> But, in real life, *mitsu* is actually read as "*mittsu*". That is life!!



If we continue the counting, we can see a pattern emerging:
hito(tsu)
futa(tsu)
*mi(ttsu)
yo(ttsu)
*itsu(tsu) 
*mu(ttsu) 
*nana(tsu) 
*ya(ttsu)
*kokono(tsu)

The pattern is: if the numeral is a one-syllable word, the "tsu" attatched to it becomes "ttsu" (otherwise it stays "tsu"). So, "ttsu" is a variation in such an environnent (presumably to make it easier to pronounce the combinations) that has established itself as the main mode of pronuncing the combinations.


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## Diamondsmith

Thank you for the examples! I have two questions:
1. What if a number exceeds 9? What is the pattern then?
2. What if one of these numbers precede a classifier (counter, in your term) other than "tsu"? Like 3 books, 3 wardrobes, etc.


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## xiaolijie

Hi Diamondsmith,

My replies above were only trying to address the question in the thread, you may have to make a new thread for a different, even if related, question. This is because the rule we see for "tsu" may not applicable to other classifiers.

For the question about how "tsu" continues afte number 9, it looks to me that after number 9, you just have to switch to another classifier to continue. Don't ask me why!


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## Diamondsmith

Thanks. I see.


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