# Bigot



## Shiratori99

Hey.

From dictionary.reference.com: 



> *bigot*
> 
> noun   1.  a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.



"Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right. I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any word with the same implications in German. The closest match would probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical baggage that bigot does not.

Does anyone know a similar German word?


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## Resa Reader

Im Deutschen haben wir das abwertende Wort "bigott" natürlich auch, aber hier verwenden wir es nur im religiösen Sinn (frömmelnd etc.)

http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/bigott

Im Englischen ist es weiter gefasst und deckt auch politische Eiferer ab. 

Für eine mögliche Übersetzung könnte dir www.pons.com helfen.


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## perny

From what I can tell there is no single German word that translates to the neutral English meaning of bigot, i.e. one who excludes/intolerant of others opinions.

All the single word German equivalents seem to have some "active" sense or are closer to the original French meaning.

Perhaps just use an adjective combination if you need the neutral meaning, e.g. "intoleranter Mensch"?


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## ayuda?

This dictionary is sometimes good for technical things.
In this case, there are a few more words listed here.
And, as was mentioned, some deal specifically with religious aspect, others with the political.

http://www.dict.cc/english-german/bigot.html  [bigot] à

*bigot*
Fanatiker {m}
Eiferer {m}
Frömmler {m}
Fan {m}
Betbruder {m}[pej.]relig.
bigotte Person {f}
blinder Anhänger {m}
religiöser Eiferer {m}
blinder Parteianhänger {m}
blinder Sektenanhänger {m}
intoleranter Mensch {m} [bezüglich Religion, Hautfarbe, Politik etc.]

=Maybe a native German Speaker could just check the over to verify that they are valid since, as we all know, that is not always the case.
They seem okay to me .


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## Schimmelreiter

Shiratori99 said:


> "Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right. I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any word with the same implications in German. The closest match would probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical baggage that bigot does not.
> 
> Does anyone know a similar German word?


The default Liberal pejorative used to be _Spießer. _I believe it's _Rechter _now. 
_
die Rechten, die bei Pegida mitmarschieren - the bigots that ...


_PS
There's a simple test to prove that _Rechter _is a pejorative: Not a single member of _Bundestag _would not deny being one. That won't change following AfD getting in next time round.

PPS
To people my age, _Spießer _still sounds good, viz. bad, enough.


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## perpend

It's tough because this stuff doesn't translate well between American English (!) and German politics.

I do consider the term "bigot" political.

Maybe for the German: du bist rechtsorientiert

That's doesn't seem too offensive.

Kreativer Einfall: dir gefällt wahrscheinlich auch die CDU/CSU


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## bearded

When I read 'bigot', _Spießer _immediately occurred to me, too (I, too, belong to that epoch...). What I don't know, though, is whether _Spie__ßer _also covers the religious meaning of 'bigot', since I always encountered that German word in its political meaning only.  Thank you.


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## Resa Reader

bearded man said:


> When I read 'bigot', _Spießer _immediately occurred to me, too (I, too, belong to that epoch...). What I don't know, though, is whether _Spie__ßer _also covers the religious meaning of 'bigot', since I always encountered that German word in its political meaning only.  Thank you.



"Spießer" doesn't have any religious connotation at all. For me it is simply someone how is "too mainstream", always keeps to the rules, etc. It is much weaker than "bigot" in my opinion.


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## berndf

I am a bit confusion about the direction of this discussion. I see no relation between _bigot _and political orientation nor do I see any relation to _Spießer_. _Bigot _is a general character trait that in a wider sense means just hypocritical and in a narrower sense religiously excessively strict and zealous paired with hypocrisy.


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## bearded

berndf said:


> I am a bit confusion about the direction of this discussion. I see no relation between _bigot _and political orientation nor do I see any relation to _Spießer_. _Bigot _is a general character trait that in a wider sense means just hypocritical and in a narrower sense religiously excessively strict and zealous paired with hypocrisy.


 The relation consists perhaps in the fact that a _Spießer_ is also a bigot in most cases, and viceversa.
 Therefore, the two concepts are often identified with one another.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> I am a bit confusion about the direction of this discussion. I see no relation between _bigot _and political orientation nor do I see any relation to _Spießer_. _Bigot _is a general character trait that in a wider sense means just hypocritical and in a narrower sense religiously excessively strict and zealous paired with hypocrisy.


Shiratori99 started the thread referring to the word's specific use in the political arena:





Shiratori99 said:


> "Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right.


See what perpend wrote:





perpend said:


> I do consider the term "bigot" political.
> 
> Maybe for the German: du bist rechtsorientiert


So, while the word's original meanings can be looked up in dictionaries, I am indeed keen to discuss how to best render its specific current meaning as a _political fighting word_​:





perpend said:


> It's tough because this stuff doesn't translate well between American English (!) and German politics.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> So, while the word's original meanings can be looked up in dictionaries, I am indeed keen to discuss how to best render its specific current meaning as a _political fighting word_​:


That is *exactly *what confuses me. _Bigot _has no specifically political meaning. And has certainly nothing to do with the political camp. Leftists can call rightists bigots, leftists can call other leftists bigots, rightists can call other rightists bigots and rightists can call leftists bigots. I seriously don't understand what we are discussing here.


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## bearded

berndf said:


> That is *exactly *what confuses me. _Bigot _has no specifically political meaning. And has certainly nothing to do with the political camp. Leftists can call rightists bigots, leftists can call other leftists bigots, rightists can call other rightists bigots and rightists can call leftists bigots. I seriously don't understand what we are discussing here.


From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:  bigot (in sociology) synonym of bourgeois ''too concerned about wealth, possessions and respectable behavior''. Doesn't this sound like a (Spieß)bürger or rightist?


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:  bigot (in sociology) synonym of bourgeois ''too concerned about wealth, possessions and respectable behavior''. Doesn't this sound like a (Spieß)bürger or rightist?


Suppose there were a relation with _Spießbürger_, though I personally still don't see one (the archetype of a bigot is as _pharisee _and I don't see the connection between _pharisee _and _Spießbürger_) but just supposed, then I still can't see a relation with right or left. _Spießbürger _can vote left and right. There was probably no part of post-WWII Germany that was so _spießig _as the GDR.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> Leftists can call rightists bigots, leftists can call other leftists bigots, rightists can call other rightists bigots and rightists can call leftists bigots.


They can but they don't. In the United States, it's an invective buzzword from the Liberals' polemical armoury which they hurl against conservatives, quite like _Rechter _in Germany. 

When it comes to invectives, their dictionary meanings are less important than the roles they play in the discourse. I could, if I would, name some non-political invectives whose discoursive functions differ substantially from their dictionary meanings.





PS
@Bernd
_Spießer_, rather than _Spießbürger_, used to be one of the 68ers' favourite anti-"bourgeois", anti-"establishment" invectives. Don't you remember?


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> They can but they don't. In the United States, it's an invective buzzword from the Liberals' polemical armoury which they hurl against conservatives, quite like _Rechter _in Germany.


Please substantiate that claim. It seems very outlandish to me.


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## bearded

@ berndf
I don't know what value you attribute to Urban-Dictionary definitions, but I think that they mostly reflect the current usage in English-speaking countries. And there I read:
_Bigot: a general term that applies to racists, anti-semites, misogynists, homo- and xenophobes, and similar._


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## berndf

Attitudes you find everywhere in the political spectrum. I no many extremely bigot people in the above sense who are dyed-in-the-wool socialists.


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## djweaverbeaver

I think that _*berndf *_has been the closest so far in characterizing with _*bigot *_is.  It is not really or overtly a political term, but it does a certain attitude things that can be perceived as political.

A _*bigot *_is someone who is stubbornly and often irrationally intolerant of other people or other points of view that differ from them or their own.  This narrow-minded dislike can be toward another person's race/ethnicity, their religion, their gender, their sexual orientation, their socioeconomic status, their language, their culture, their disability, their lifestyle choices, and the things.  They have strongly held views and prejudices about these things and are not willing to change them anytime soon.   So basically, a bigot is someone who is intolerant and doesn't have an open-mind.  I think it tends to be associated with people who hold conservative viewpoints, but it doesn't have to be. You do hear about left-wing bigotry from time to time.

We often qualify the term just to specific what type of bigot we're talking about:  _*He's racist/sexist/misogynistic/chauvinistic/homophobic/religious/anti-Semitic/islamophobic/xenophobic/elitist/X bigot.*_  I think that in the U.S., when it is unqualified, we tend to associate it with someone who is racist or at least highly prejudiced given the country's tragic history. But context is of course key. 

 I personally would tend to say that prejudice is about perception, bigotry is about attitude or mindset, and racism is about actions.  This is at least how it was explained to me some years back.  All racists are bigots, but not all bigots are racist.


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## Schimmelreiter

_Political correctness is a style of politics in which the more radical members of the left attempt to regulate political discourse by defining opposing views as bigoted and illegitimate.

_http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/not-a-very-pc-thing-to-say.html



That's what I meant to say when I called _bigot_ a political invective.


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## berndf

The mere fact that the term "political correctness" involves the word "political" does not make everything that touches the idea of "political correctness" a political concept.


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## Sowka

Hello 



djweaverbeaver said:


> A _*bigot *_is someone who is stubbornly and often irrationally intolerant of other people or other points of view that differ from them or their own.  This narrow-minded dislike can be toward another person's race/ethnicity, their religion, their gender, their sexual orientation, their socioeconomic status, their language, their culture, their disability, their lifestyle choices, and the things.  They have strongly held views and prejudices about these things and are not willing to change them anytime soon.   So basically, a bigot is someone who is intolerant and doesn't have an open-mind.  I think it tends to be associated with people who hold conservative viewpoints, but it doesn't have to be. You do hear about left-wing bigotry from time to time.



I would call such a person "engstirnig" or "verbohrt".


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## Schimmelreiter

Schimmelreiter said:


> _Political correctness is a style of politics in which the more radical members of the left attempt to regulate political discourse by defining opposing views as bigoted and illegitimate.
> 
> _http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/not-a-very-pc-thing-to-say.html
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I meant to say when I called _bigot_ a political invective.





berndf said:


> The mere fact that the term "political correctness" involves the word "political" does not make everything that touches the idea of "political correctness" a political concept.


I've removed the irrelevant part of the quote:


Schimmelreiter said:


> _*the more radical members of the left attempt to regulate political discourse by defining opposing views as bigoted and illegitimate.*
> 
> _http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/not-a-very-pc-thing-to-say.html
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I meant to say when I called _bigot_ a political invective.




Relocating the above to Germany:
_The more radical members of the left attempt to regulate political discourse by defining opposing views as *rechts* and illegitimate._

The moral cudgel of the American left is: _He's a bigot._
The moral cudgel of the German left is: _Er ist rechts.


_

Mine is a discourse-level argument, rather than a word-level argument. At the word-level, 





Sowka said:


> "engstirnig" or "verbohrt"


is just perfect.





PS
Please note that given Germany's history, _Er ist rechts _is indeed a *moral* cudgel.


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## berndf

_Political correctness is a style of politics in which the more  radical members of the left attempt to regulate political discourse by  defining opposing views as bigoted and illegitimate.

_What can I say other then to repeat myself _The mere fact that the term "political correctness" involves the word  "political" does not make everything that touches the idea of "political  correctness" a political concept._ Political correctness is a attitude in daily life and not a style of politics. My problem is not German history but this muddling of concepts and levels of discourse.


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## Schimmelreiter

What can I say other than to repeat myself that political correctness is irrelevant to my point. The above quote is about, and includes, the term _political discourse. _I'm discussing political discourse. No muddling of concepts. No muddling of levels of discourse. In all my posts I've only discussed political discourse. The thread opener wanted it that way, see his opening post. Also the _historical baggage _was introduced by him:


Shiratori99 said:


> "Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right. I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any word with the same implications in German. The closest match would probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical baggage that bigot does not.


I don't accept being criticised for trying to be helpful to the thread opener, not having in the least muddled anything.



See what our American member perpend wrote:





perpend said:


> It's tough because this stuff doesn't translate well between American English (!) and German politics.
> 
> I do consider the term "bigot" political.
> 
> Maybe for the German: du bist rechtsorientiert


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> What can I say other than to repeat myself that political correctness is irrelevant to my point. The above quote is about, and includes, the term _political discourse. _I'm discussing political discourse. No muddling of concepts. No muddling of levels of discourse. In all my posts I've only discussed political discourse. The thread opener wanted it that way, see his opening post. Also the _historical baggage _was introduced by him:I don't accept being criticised for trying to be helpful to the thread opener, not having in the least muddled anything.


Look, just because some dumbos use a negatively connotated word to discredit political opponents does not make it a political concept. Sorry, that would just be surrendering to them.


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## Schimmelreiter

The thread opener expressly wants us to help him find 





berndf said:


> a negatively connotated word to discredit political opponents





Shiratori99 said:


> "Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right. I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any word with the same implications in German. The closest match would probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical baggage that bigot does not.
> 
> Does anyone know a similar German word?


I'm trying to help him find such a word. Who's game?


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## perny

berndf said:


> Look, just because some dumbos use a negatively connotated word to discredit political opponents does not make it a political concept. Sorry, that would just be surrendering to them.



Except it is.

Basis: tolerance has become the defining value of Anglophone societies (hardly surprising when you think of the former British Empire, the world's largest to date).

"Political correctness" in the quoted sentence is including its effect on language, then the use of that as a tool by politicians. Of course, the realization of the concept is itself communicated by language. 

So, by labelling certain words or the use of such words, the sentence claims politicians of the left can legitimately call those opposing their views as bigots (multiple kinds) and illegitimate in views or method of discourse.

In short, attacks on tolerance are about as political as it gets in Anglophone countries... You'd have to have ruined entire economies or killed the wrong people to get more seriously political!

Note. there are cultural and language overtones that may not be present in German, or at least nowhere near as strongly. In English societies, it is quite fashionable to create an atmosphere where certain words are not considered acceptable to use in almost any context or in multiple contexts.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> The thread opener expressly wants us to help him find I'm trying to help him find such a word. Who's game?


And I am saying the question is wrong. He doesn't find an equivalent exactly for the reason I stated: Bigot isn't a political term. It is just a negative term abused by certain people to discredit there opponents without describing their political position but by trying to stain their character. Perfidious.

A similar phenomenon was the use of "Fascho" in the jargon of the German _Spontis _of the 80s and partly 90s. Although this IS originally a political term is had been voided of any political meaning and rendered to mere insult and used for everybody who didn't agree with them.


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## Schimmelreiter

The American left tries to discredit opponents by labelling them _bigots. _The German left tries to discredit opponents by calling them _rechts. __rechts _is an invective label in German political discourse, affixed to those people whose American counterparts are labelled  _bigots. _The discoursive parallel is obvious, evident and striking.


I'd like to reiterate that not one member of _Bundestag _calls themself _rechts _of course.


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## Frieder

But there surely is a political party called _Die Rechte_.
But you'd never find an American one that would be
willing to call themselves "the bigots". So, there has
to be a difference ...


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> The American left tries to discredit opponents by labelling them _bigots. _The German left tries to discredit opponents by calling them _rechts. __rechts _is an invective label in German political discourse, affixed to those people whose American counterparts are labelled  _bigots. _The discoursive parallel is obvious, evident and striking.
> 
> 
> I'd like to reiterate that not one member of _Bundestag _calls themself _rechts _of course.



People also call their opponents "stupid" to discredit them. Does that make "stupid" a political term?


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## perpend

berndf said:


> People also call their opponents "stupid" to discredit them. Does that make "stupid" a political term?



Erm....do you feel that "stupid" ist im/in Grossraum "bigot"? Ach du meine Güte.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> People also call their opponents "stupid" to discredit them. Does that make "stupid" a political term?


_bigot_, unlike _stupid_, is a character argument. Character arguments are the #1 type of arguments in American politics. Want to silence an opponent in American politics? Call them a bad person that cheats on their spouse, for instance. Lacking in smartness they may be. But not lacking in character.


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## berndf

They are used IN politics but they are not political, like stupid.


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## perpend

berndf said:


> They are used IN politics but they are not political, like stupid.



That means zero to me. (Null, Komma, Null.)

Alles nur eine Diskussion. Ich meine nichts Böses, bernd.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> They are used IN politics but they are not political, like stupid.


Exactly. At the thread starter's behest, I've been discussing political discourse from minute one. Character arguments dominate American political discourse. Don't make me shower you with examples.


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## berndf

They are not dominating political discourse but are a means to avoid political discourse and yet manage to beat your opponent. If we don't have a German equivalent than it only shows that our political culture has some advantages.


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## Schimmelreiter

No. Avoidance is part of the discourse:





Schimmelreiter said:


> Want to silence an opponent in American politics? Call them a bad person


You aren't possibly confusing _discourse _with _discussion_? Discussion stoppers are discoursive devices.

In Germany, you may cheat on your wife, admit to it in a book and still be the #1 elder smoker. While you're on active duty, nobody cares if you do.

But Germans have got their own discussion stopper turned discoursive device: Call somebody _rechts_, and you're rid of them in a minute.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> You aren't possiby confusing _discourse _with _discussion_?


No.


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## ayuda?

Just my opinion:* Bigott*
I never realized that a word could be so easily misunderstood, so multifaceted…the concept so difficult to precisely be defined.—because, as is obviously apparent in this thread, it can be difficult. 
There is a definite fundamental *cultural difference* in understanding .

That’s why the conversation might a times seem to drift, but it doesn’t actually. 
It is so contrary to what you might initially think and takes a while to wrap your head around it

*Bigott vs. bigot*
*Major difference:*
German: *many political word to express the English word bigot / religious meaning *[overly pious] [narrower than the Am. English]
 English:  *not used as much in political and religious sense*

*political bigot:* You wouldn’t hear the term bigot used much here in the political sense. 
You would be very likely to hear *political fanatic*, a *right-winger*/*lefty *[with a few adjectives included] [applies to the left and the right].
=Am.English tends to use *bigot* to refer to someone who is offensive in *specific* ways about various offenses.
Bigot in German seems to have a narrow religious connotation.
Example: Somebody is using offensive language towards someone or working against a specific group;
he doesn’t tolerate Hispanics, Asians or someone who is gay, and he says or does something overtly offensive against that group/personàthey say in reply, “You’re a *bigot*/[to the *racist]*!” [*no particular, narrow reference to the broad political or religious spectrum]* [*bigot *as a word encompassing a lot]
 *religious biogot: *You won’t hear that here much either [*religious fanatic, *instead]

=The word is used more on a personal, individual, *compartmentalized* level in Am.English.
*Djweaverbeaver writes:* We often qualify the term just to specific what type of bigot we're talking about: *He's **racist/sexist/misogynistic/chauvinistic/homophobic/religious/anti-Semitic/islamophobic/xenophobic/elitist/X**bigot.*
*Bigot *is a very loaded and powerful word: Them’s fightin’ words!
 And if you are talking to an ignorant racist/homophobe, you might want to get a running start before you do.
Very different than German.

==German doesn’t seem to have any *single word *for* bigot* that covers such a *wide range of things. *
Here it doesn’t have to do so much with the political or religious, but rather with their *personal, human rights and dignity*—how someone is assaulted personally. 
*That is the problem when you start to define it politically or religiously*—get’s lost in translation!!
*Bigott* [German], by the dictionary definition or when you google it, seems to be a very mild word with this religious connotation, and in no way has the broad use and scope of* bigot*:
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/bigott [bigott] 


*Re:Schimmelreiter: S**pießer*(*Spießbürger*)/ *Spießig*[bourgeoise, “square.,“narrow-minded]
*[something included below  just as a footnote] *
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/christian-ulmen-spiessig-ist-immer-scheisse-a-483035-2.html *["Spießig ist immer scheiße"]*
I get that! It is relevant; in fact, _it is the point._
I think this is a good attempt at a _one-word, comprehensive word_ like _bigot_.
=_*Spießer *_seems to be just the opposite in its syntax: 
it is a *seemingly mild word* that *can* *pack a punch in the right* *context*—although it doesn’t even approach the powerful invective/anathema  that *bigot* does .

< ... >


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## djweaverbeaver

I agree with everything that *berndf *has said thus far.  Just because the term is used in a political context doesn't mean that the term is necessarily political.  Being bigoted is synonymous with being close-minded in a specific way.  The person could be apolitical.  If say that my 60-year old uncle is bigoted, it doesn't mean that he isn't a good person, it just means that he still holds to certain views that are no longer acceptable in today's society.  Only context can make the insult *bigot *political, but more often than not, it is *not *a political insult.


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## perpend

Sowka said:


> Hello
> 
> I would call such a person "engstirnig" or "verbohrt".



Würdest du das in einer *politischen *Diskussion mal äußern....mal so...nach zwei Halbe?

< ... >


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## perny

djweaverbeaver said:


> I agree with everything that *berndf *has said thus far.  Just because the term is used in a political context doesn't mean that the term is necessarily political.  Being bigoted is synonymous with being close-minded in a specific way.  The person could be apolitical.  If say that my 60-year old uncle is bigoted, it doesn't mean that he isn't a good person, it just means that he still holds to certain views that are no longer acceptable in today's society.  Only context can make the insult *bigot *political, but more often than not, it is *not *a political insult.



Why do you keep using this strange argument? Not only did the OP NOT say it was a political term, but it clearly is used in a political context with *extreme political meaning*, i.e. X's *policies or character* are intolerant in a specific way. As, we've made it abundantly clear, tolerance is a fundamental value, and the discussion of it across its spectrum is a pillar of English politics and society.

So, it is very clear either the OP is looking for a meaning-unit-translation or discourse-unit-translation.


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## perpend

I agree with perny. You can slice it and dice it anyway you want, but "bigot" nowadays in American English translates to "intolerance" and that translates to "discrimination". That can never be good.

That is *political*. Sorry, but does that help anyone see the difference? Got Indiana?


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## djweaverbeaver

perny said:


> As, we've made it abundantly clear, tolerance is a fundamental value, and the discussion of it across its spectrum is a pillar of English politics and society.



I'm not English. Maybe there's a cross-cultural difference. There's nothing strange about that example when I've heard many people use the term in this way.  I don't agree with OP's characterization of the word, which is part of the reason why this debate has gone on so long. S/he didn't understand the full scope of its usage.   And perpend,  discrimination doesn't have to be political.


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## perpend

djweaverbeaver said:


> And perpend,  discrimination doesn't have to be political.



Is "same-sex marriage" political to you?


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## Schimmelreiter

djweaverbeaver said:


> S/he didn't understand the full scope of its usage.


That's why they started this thread. That's why people start any thread. Shiratori99's inquiry is about one narrow limited aspect of the use of the word:





Shiratori99 said:


> "Bigot" is often used by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right.


And that one narrow limited aspect of the use of the word is clearly political. Shiratori99 made it clear they'd looked up the word in a dictionary





Shiratori99 said:


> From dictionary.reference.com:
> 
> *bigot*
> 
> 
> noun 1. a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.


and went on to say,





Shiratori99 said:


> I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any word with the same implications in German. The closest match would probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical baggage that bigot does not.
> 
> Does anyone know a similar German word?


So this thread is *not *about the meaning of the word _bigot_, which everybody knows means _utterly __intolerant person_, but this thread is *solely *about the discoursive use to which the word is put in the political arena and whether there's a word, *not necessarily with the same meaning at all*, _*that is used*_ in German politics _*by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right*_. So this thread is about a word's *discoursive function*. It's *not about its meaning*.


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## perpend

Schimmelreiter said:


> That's why they started this tread. That's why people start any thread. Shiratori99's inquiry is about one narrow limited aspect of the use of the word:And that one narrow limited aspect of the use of the word is clearly political. Shiratori99 made it clear they'd looked up the word in a dictionaryand went on to say,So this thread is *not *about the meaning of the word _bigot_, which everybody knows means _utterly __intolerant person_, but this thread is *solely *about the discoursive use to which the word is put in the political arena and whether there's a word, *not necessarily with the same meaning at all*, _*that is used*_ in German politics _*by left-wingers to insult their political enemies on the right*_. So this thread is about a word's *discoursive function*. It's *not about its meaning*.



Amen. I agree.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> So this thread is about a word's *discoursive function*. It's *not about its meaning*.


This is incorrect. This part of the question clearly concerns semantics:


Shiratori99 said:


> I'm a native speaker, but I don't know any  word with the same implications in German. The closest match would  probably be "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", but those terms originally  meant something completely different and carry a lot of historical  baggage that bigot does not.


And the answer to this is that bigot does not have the same "baggage" because, contrary to "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", _bigot_ is not political term.

The obvious reason for the use of such terms that describe general character and have nothing to do with politics is to drag discourse from political to personal and while this is, alas, commonplace in American politics, in European political culture this is still widely regarded as foul play and that is the answer to the OP's question why there is no equivalent.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> And the answer to this is that bigot does not have the same "baggage" because, contrary to "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", _bigot_ is not political term.
> 
> The obvious reason for the use of such terms that describe general character and have nothing to do with politics is to drag discourse from political to personal and while this is, alas, commonplace in American politics, in European political culture this is still widely regarded as foul play and that is the answer to the OP's question why there is no equivalent.


On the contrary. The historical-baggage parallel is perfectly obvious:

America's collective bad conscience is about slavery. So _bigotry_, besides being a personal insult, is an immensely political insult. He who is accused thereof is thus likened to the slaveholders.

Germany's collective bad conscience is about the Nazis and the Holocaust. So to call somebody _rechts_​ is to liken them to the Nazis.




PS
Americans' obsession with PC also stems from that collective bad conscience of theirs. PC started with race before it was expanded to other areas.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> On the contrary. The historical-baggage parallel is perfectly obvious:
> 
> America's collective bad conscience is about slavery. So _bigotry_, besides being a personal insult, is an immensely political insult. He who is accused thereof is thus likened to the slaveholders.
> 
> Germany's collective bad conscience is about the Nazis and the Holocaust. So to call somebody _rechts_​ is to liken them to the Nazis.


At that level of far-fetchedness everything is political. I think we won't come together on this and everything has been said. I quit the discussion.


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## djweaverbeaver

perpend said:


> Is "same-sex marriage" political to you?



The issue of same-sex marriage is political.  The fact that I am a homophobe or against gays and lesbians marrying doesn't have to be.  I can hold this opinion without doing anything to hinder it from happening.  *Bigotry is about views; politics is about actions*.  You all have been wrongly conflating the two!




berndf said:


> This is incorrect. This part of the question clearly concerns semantics:
> 
> And the answer to this is that bigot does not have the same "baggage" because, contrary to "Nazi", "Faschist" or "Rassist", _bigot_ is not political term.
> 
> The obvious reason for the use of such terms that describe general  character and have nothing to do with politics is to drag discourse from  political to personal and while this is, alas, commonplace in American  politics, in European political culture this is still widely regarded as  foul play and that is the answer to the OP's question why there is no  equivalent.



  As already stated, berndf gets it.  He really does.



Schimmelreiter said:


> On the contrary. The historical-baggage parallel is perfectly obvious:
> 
> America's collective bad conscience is about slavery. So _bigotry_, besides being a personal insult, is an immensely political insult. He who is accused thereof is thus likened to the slaveholders.
> 
> Germany's collective bad conscience is about the Nazis and the Holocaust. So to call somebody _rechts_​ is to liken them to the Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> Americans' obsession with PC also stems from that collective bad conscience of theirs. PC started with race before it was expanded to other areas.



Your argument is patently wrong because bigotry doesn't just apply to racism.  Furthermore, bigotry did not originally apply to it.  As I've said meaning times already, it's about mindset.  It just so happens that some politically minded or involved people have bigoted views about some topics, but this doesn't make the word *bigot *political.  Being called a *bigot*, although an insult, is in no way on the same level as being called a *Nazi *in German.




berndf said:


> At that level of far-fetchedness everything is political. I think we won't come together on this and everything has been said. I quit the discussion.


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## Schimmelreiter

djweaverbeaver said:


> *politics is about actions*.


Politics is driven by views.





djweaverbeaver said:


> Your argument is patently wrong because bigotry doesn't just apply to racism.


Who said it did?


djweaverbeaver said:


> bigotry did not originally apply to it.


Who said it had?


djweaverbeaver said:


> Being called a *bigot*, although an insult, is in no way on the same level as being called a *Nazi *in German.


Who said it was? For decades, CDU/CSU considered themselves _rechts. _Some time ago, the German left began to use _rechts _as an insult, lumping it together with _rechtsextrem. _That deliberate imprecision of use has made it possible for _rechts _- not for _Nazi_! - to be turned into a political discoursive device. Hence the parallel to _​bigotry. _(A parallel is not identical with what it's parallel to!)





PS
Consequently, not a single member of _Bundestag_ calls themself _rechts_ nowadays.


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## djweaverbeaver

You said "*Germany's collective bad conscience is about the Nazis and the Holocaust. So to call somebody rechts​ is to liken them to the Nazis."*  Anyway,  I'm not going to keep arguing this.  You all keep conflating views with politics and I haven't effectively persuaded you that this is wrong.  I've already said my piece, and that's that.


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## Schimmelreiter

djweaverbeaver said:


> You said "*Germany's collective bad conscience is about the Nazis and the Holocaust. So to call somebody rechts​ is to liken them to the Nazis."*


Yes. By lumping _rechts _and _rechtsextrem _together, the German left has managed to make it impossible for anybody in their right  mind to call themself _rechts_. Calling someone _rechts _is now effectively to liken them to the Nazis:





Schimmelreiter said:


> That deliberate imprecision of use has made it possible for _rechts _- not for _Nazi_! - to be turned into a political discoursive device. Hence the parallel to _​bigotry._





Of course





Schimmelreiter said:


> A parallel is not identical with what it's parallel to!















djweaverbeaver said:


> You all keep conflating views with politics and I haven't effectively persuaded you that this is wrong.


My generation grew up in the slogan that anything political was private, and anything private was political.


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## Sowka

I’d like to summarize my thinking so far:

“Bigot” in itself is not a political word. It is directed at a person’s character. It is used in political discussions, true, but this does not make it a political term.

An indicator of this is the fact that I have found “bigot” rarely used on its own. In most cases, it is used with a word that adds political/ideological content, for example:
_(He is) a gay-hating bigot
(He is) a racist bigot
_etc.

In this English structure, the noun is non-political, whereas the political/ideological content is provided in the attribute.



perpend said:


> Sowka said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would call such a person "engstirnig" or "verbohrt".
> 
> 
> 
> Würdest du das in einer politischen Diskussion mal äußern
Click to expand...


In a political discussion, I would use “verbohrt”. “Engstirnig” is rather used for someone who just is not open-minded; I realized this difference only after reflecting on your question.. “Verbohrt”, on the other hand, is perfect for political and ideological issues:
_Er ist ein verbohrter Kommunist / Konservativer / Frauenhasser / Schwulenhasser.
Sie ist eine verbohrte Feministin.
_
Here, the “political/ideological content” word is the noun, whereas the attribute (verbohrt) is - in my opinion - an approximate equivalent of the English noun “bigot”.

I don’t think that “Er ist rechts” can have the function in German that “He is a bigot” has in American English. You could call someone “rechts” only if they had indeed said or done something that points in that direction, and this is rarely the case. So you can’t use it as freely as you can use “He is a bigot” in American English. 

Moreover, in German, it is very unusual to call a *person* “rechts”. You would rather hear something like:
_Er gehört dem rechten Spektrum an.
Mit dieser Aussage positioniert er sich auf dem rechten Rand.
_or something similar.



Schimmelreiter said:


> For decades, CDU/CSU considered themselves _rechts_.


When did CDU/CSU consider themselves rechts? In my perception, all our Bundestag parties have avoided such a self-description since my very beginnings. It’s only in descriptions from the outside (“Die CDU steht rechts von der SPD”) that this attribute can be found. Do you have any examples?


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## perny

Isn't "verbohrt" _umgangsprachlich_?

Bigot can be used in any context, including to the head of state in an official capacity/debate, if you so dared.

Otherwise, thanks for your input Sowka, it is very interesting!


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## Sowka

perny said:


> Isn't "verbohrt" _umgangsprachlich_?



You are right; Duden agrees with you (I wasn't aware of this word being _umgangssprachlich_; thanks for pointing it out!)

So, perhaps "unbelehrbar" or "uneinsichtig".
_Ein unbelehrbarer Kommunist_.

But I like "verbohrt" better because it creates a very clear picture in my mind.


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## Schimmelreiter

Sowka said:


> “Bigot” in itself is not a political word.


_However, in the modern day, bigot is used to refer to those who oppose social liberal agendas [...] Bigotry is an accusation, which is often used by liberal and marxist types to condemn those people who are not of the same "tolerant" or "open minded" attitude as themselves. _
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bigot&defid=6379809


PS
The above sounds like a summary of my posts. It is, however, quoted literally from the Urban Dictionary.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> My generation grew up in the slogan that anything political was private, and anything private was political.


Maybe I was a bit too pessimistic in assuming we wouldn't come together. You couldn't have argued *my *case more brilliantly than by reminding us of this horrible slogan.


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> Maybe I was a bit too pessimistic in assuming we wouldn't come together. You couldn't have argued *my *case more brilliantly than by reminding us this horrible slogan.


C'mon. Rudi D. speaking at the FU, Mick J. singing _Street Fighting Man. _And we ended up as conservatives, predictably.


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## ayuda?

*Question:*
Since it is difficult to find that one word in German that would that translates with the power of the English word *bigot*; and *Bigott *doesn’t seem at all to do it in the German both the political and religious sense at the same time, 
wouldn’t the word *Fanatiker *do it as a *one-word concept*:  
Angela Merkel ist *Fanatiker* or the CDU, die sind* Fanatiker* [just by way of example ].

*If the one word is not sufficient to convey that extreme religious or political sense*, 
then using it with an adjective certainly would: 
*politischer*/*politischeFanatiker* and *religiöser*/*religiose Fanatiker.
I think that would be more clearly and quickly understood in English*

Or is that, too, something that you wouldn’t use/hear much in this sense in German—meaning that it would not translate so well? [It is no substitute for the English* bigot,* [something used in a more specific way,which *concerns personal rights and human dignity*, not politics and religion]:
*Djweaverbeaverwrites:*We often qualify the term just to *specific what type of bigot* we're talking about: *He's **racist/sexist/misogynistic/chauvinistic/homophobic/religious/anti-Semitic/islamophobic/xenophobic/elitist/Xbigot.*


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## Perseas

How would "*Andersdenkendenhasser*" sound in the ears of the native Germans? In Google there are only few hits. 
To be honest this is the direct equivalent of the Greek [misa'loðoksos] and this is the word we normally use as translation for "bigot". By the way, the Greek word is translated "*intolerant*" in *pons gr>de*.


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## djweaverbeaver

Schimmelreiter said:


> _However, in the modern day, bigot is used to refer to those who oppose social liberal agendas [...] Bigotry is an accusation, which is often used by liberal and marxist types to condemn those people who are not of the same "tolerant" or "open minded" attitude as themselves. _
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bigot&defid=6379809



Okay, I couldn't help myself.  So you're using the Urban Dictionary in support of your argument.  First off, you have to be leery of what you read on there because anyone can right whatever the heck they want as a definition to a word or phrase.  I can't tell you the number times on this forum that people have gone on there to look something up, only to cite an incorrect definition written by someone who thinks they know what the term means and use it for the basis of their translation.

Second,  if you are going to use the Urban Dictionary, as with any entry in any dictionary, you should/must definitely read them all.  You used the first entry that popped up on the screen as evidence for your case.  It's not even the most liked or agree upon interpretation of the term.  All of the other entries seem to agree with what I've been futilely?) saying in that it is about views and prejudices, not politics.  Furthermore, that particular definition once again conflates views and actions/politics.  That's even clear in the two examples that they give.  Not all bigots act on their thoughts. In the second example, that fact that the person doesn't approve of same-sex marriage doesn't mean that he or she is out protesting or picketing, or he or she would even vote to ban it.  Let us not forget that there are people on the left who are also bigoted.  There's intolerance on every side.

I'd also add Sowka to the list of people who seem to understand what it means.

As for the "private is political" stuff, I'm a millennial, and most of us don't ascribe to this notion.


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