# היום נשארים או היום נשארו



## airelibre

Which of these is more correct/natural? 

היום לא נשארים הרבה עצי זית בהר הזיתים
היום לא נשארו הרבה עצי זית בהר הזיתים


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## Xotira

The first one is not correct as it's a mixture of different times. The second one is the correct form.


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## origumi

Depends on whether it's a process in action (then present tense is good) or one that has completed (past is good).


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## airelibre

Xotira said:


> The first one is not correct as it's a mixture of different times. The second one is the correct form.


How is it a mixture of different times? היום is present, as is נשארים. There are no other verbs or time references in the sentence.


origumi said:


> Depends on whether it's a process in action (then present tense is good) or one that has completed (past is good).


So one would be "Today not many olive trees are being left on the Mount of Olives", and the other would be "Today not many olive trees are (were would be literal but unidiomatic) left on the amount of Olives)"

What I'm trying to say is "remain". נותרו would work, but I want to know how to say the sentence naturally with להישאר.


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## origumi

נשארו and נותרו as both good and can be used here in the same manner. Your latter sentence is natural.


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## hadronic

I would translate "not many trees are being left"  with הושארו or מושארים, passive forms  of השאיר "to leave", or if passive is to be avoid, with active 3rd pers plural.

I too would say נשארו is the good one. I think it has to do with the negation. I would say :
היום לא נשארו הרבה עצים, but
היום נשארים הרבה עצים (but נשארו would be OK too).

Of course, this is for נשאר meaning "to be left",not for other  meanings like נשאר בבית or נשאר חייב .


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## bazq

היום נשארו is just fine.
To me נשארים is unacceptable in any combination. only נשארו.


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## origumi

bazq said:


> To me נשארים is unacceptable in any combination. only נשארו.


היום נשארים בירושלים רק דתיים.
היום אנשים נשארים בבית המלון עד צאת השבת.
היום נשארים בהר הזיתים רק עצים רבי שורשים.


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## bazq

origumi said:


> היום נשארים בירושלים רק דתיים.
> היום אנשים נשארים בבית המלון עד צאת השבת.
> היום נשארים בהר הזיתים רק עצים רבי שורשים.



Well, the first two are perfect, but they convey the meaning of "stay".
I'm beginning to wrap my mind around the meaning of the sentence with נשארים (took me a while). It is very marked and to me conveys something like an ongoing tree-cutting operation in Mount of Olives where a tree is not cut down only if it is רב שורשים. The form נשארים is used only to mark that this tree cutting is happening as we speak. It doesn't mean that "they are left" (the result, which would call for נשארו)

Edit: Oh, I see now that you mentioned this in your previous post "Depends on whether it's a process in action (then present tense is good) or one that has completed (past is good)." That pretty much sums it up in a very simple way .

So for the meaning of "are left" (a result) only נשארו is good, and for the meaning of "are being left" (a process taking place) נשארים is good. I get it now. I simply didn't understand in what state of affairs could a sentence with נשארים be grammatical. It really took me more time than it should .


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## hadronic

היום נשארים בירושלים רק דתיים
I don't think this one means "to stay". The fact that the subject can be postponed so far to the end of the sentence strongly indicates a "unaccusative" verb, ie "to be left". In the "unergative" meaning of נשאר (voluntary action of staying), subject needs to be kept closer to the verb:  רק דתיים נשארים בירושלים, or היום נשארים רק דתיים בירושלים,  with indented meaning  "today only religious stay (don't move out from)  in Jerusalem".


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