# çalışmadan / çalıştıktan difference



## zzillla

Merhaba

I would really appreciate some help to understand the difference between:   çalışmadan & çalıştıktan

I have come across two sentences:
çalışmadan önce kahvaltı yapıyorum  
I have breakfast before work (my attempt)

çalıştıktan sonra akşam yemeği yiyorum
I have dinner after work (my attempt)

I don't understand why a different word is used.  
Are çalışmadan & çalıştıktan interchangeable in the above sentences?

Teşekkürler!


----------



## Muttaki

Merhaba,

No they are not. You can only say _çalıştıktan sonra_, not _çalıştıktan önce_. _Çalışmadan sonra _makes sense but the word çalışmadan here and in "_çalışmadan önce_" would not mean exactly the same thing. In your sentence the suffix _-ma_ in _çalışmadan önce_ is a negation. But if you say _çalışmadan sonra_, here _-ma_ doesn't negate anything but it makes the verb a noun; so it is _çalışma+dan_ _sonra_ in this case. Difficult understand might be the negation thing. When translated into English we just say "before work" for _çalışmadan önce. _But in Turkish there is a negation there. I don't know how to tell but you indicate that you have your breakfast and you do not work before work till the end of the breakfast.

In the case of _çalışmadan sonra,_ _çalışma_ is a noun and when you say "_Çalışmadan sonra geleceğim_" for example you talk about a particular work, exercise or study which is _çalışma._


----------



## themadprogramer

-madan ~without(only used with verbs)
-d(t)ıktan (from having (verb) )

Önce is optional Sonra is not. 

Emeklemeden yürünmez. (One cannot walk without crawling)

As you can see it can be used in other cases as well.

Gitmeden haber ver (Let me know before you go (without your departal) ) 

Note however that "yüzmeden hoşlanmazdı" (he didn't enjoy swimming) uses a suffix spelt the same which instead means "[from] -ing"

Yüzmekten yoruldu. "He's tired from (of) swimming"

However we're not quite done yet...
Yüzme(k)den sonra yemek iyi geldi. (After [the] swimming [session] this food/meal feels good / I enjoyed eating after swimming) 

So yes even without the K it can literally mean the exact same thing, the only clue here is the word sonra)


To be fair this is The TDK's fault because they ended the ه ا distinction we used to determine which one we were reffering to in writing. 


I hope I clarriefed a few things but I don't think what I wrote was clear enough, feel free to press on whatever seems the most bizarre so we may better explain it.


----------



## Rallino

To be noted that, when speaking, the stress patterns in _yüzmeden önce _and _yüzmeden sonra_ are different. Because of the negative suffix in the first case, the stress shifts towards the first syllable; whereas in the latter case, it's the last syllable that is stressed.
_
*y**üz*meden önce vs. yüzme*den* sonra.
_


Ahmet Akkoç said:


> To be fair this is The TDK's fault because they ended the ه ا distinction we used to determine which one we were reffering to in writing.



Yes, but that only worked for verbs that ended in -ma, like: چالیشمادن vs. چالیشمه‌دن (çalışmadan).
It didn't work for verbs ending in -me, like: ویرمه‌دن (vermeden) since you couldn't use ا for those.


----------



## Muttaki

Rallino said:


> Yes, but that only worked for verbs that ended in -ma, like: چالیشمادن vs. چالیشمه‌دان (çalışmadan).
> It didn't work for verbs ending in -me, like: ویرمه‌دن (vermeden) since you couldn't use ا for those.


Less likely to see it written as ویرمەدن; possible though because of the so-called "Enver imlası" experience that we had encountered for a short period of time. But mostly it is written as ویرمدن without the ە in-between. ویرمەدن would mean "verme(k)den". Also if we wanted to say "çalışma(k)dan", we would write it as چالیشمەدن not چالیشمادن; whereas "çalışmadan" with -ma being a negation suffix would be written as چالیشمدن or چالیشمادن.


----------



## themadprogramer

For the record:

-ma negates
-ten gives the sense of the past (as in sabahtan at/(right) before morning)


----------



## zzillla

Thank you all for very helpful and informative answers.  I realise now I was approaching the structure from completely the wrong angle.


----------

