# No more in-line images



## mkellogg

Hi all!

I made a change that will hopefully keep the download times reasonable and maybe help maintain the professional/academic atmosphere of these forums. 

You can no longer create in-line images. Attached images are still allowed though. 

Mike


----------



## alc112

but Can we put a link with the image????


----------



## cuchuflete

alc112 said:
			
		

> but Can we put a link with the image????



Hola ALC,

Try it. See what happens!



http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/aug00/frown.jpg;)


----------



## cuchuflete

alc112 said:
			
		

> but Can we put a link with the image????



You can, just paste it above the linked thumbnail image.


----------



## alc112

A ver a ver....


----------



## alc112

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> You can, just paste it above the linked thumbnail image.


 
What????
I don't understand


----------



## fetchezlavache

*mike please* can we at least know why ? wouldn't it have been preferable to pm the person(s) who abused the use of inline images to ask them to slow down ?

i feel we are all punished for something just a few of us did wrong. 


it's _much less fun_ this way.


----------



## mkellogg

Hi fetchez!

Let's try it for a couple of weeks and see how we like it.  The images are still just a click away. 

Mike


----------



## alc112

mkellogg said:
			
		

> Hi fetchez!
> 
> Let's try it for a couple of weeks and see how we like it. The images are still just a click away.
> 
> Mike


 
But it's not the same  
We use the images when someone reach # post (100,500,1000...) and when is necesary an image to ilustrate something.

Could answer about the  ranks of the forum?
Thanks


----------



## Jabote

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> *mike please* can we at least know why ? wouldn't it have been preferable to pm the person(s) who abused the use of inline images to ask them to slow down ?
> 
> i feel we are all punished for something just a few of us did wrong.
> 
> 
> it's _much less fun_ this way.


 
Agree with Fetchez... and may I add that if some people are too chatty and get their fingers slapped for it (wink to fetchez), even some moderators DO use many useless smilies AND veeeeeery long mottos at the end of ALL their messages....

IMHO, of couse...


----------



## lauranazario

> *mike please* can we at least know why ? wouldn't it have been preferable to pm the person(s) who abused the use of inline images to ask them to slow down ?


Guys and gals,
Apparently some may think that revoking in-line image "privileges" is some sort of generalized 'punishment' when Mike has made it clear it isn't.

In post #1 he stated:


			
				mike said:
			
		

> I made a change that will hopefully keep the download times reasonable


I think we must respect whatever operational decisions are taken by our Administrator to make these forums available to people in every corner of the world and with all forms of internet access services (from slow to high-speed).

And yes, while in-line images may have made these forums appear more "enjoyable", they are not indispensable for our language discussions. Furthermore, we can all add links to images if we want to --so it's not like that ability has been banned forever.

I'm just trying to look on the bright side... and encourage everyone to do so as well.

Saludos,
LN


----------



## fetchezlavache

well, nothing is indispensable. no avatars, no profiles, no signatures, no smilies. keep only what you need, the ability to transcribe your words in a post. then you'll have the perfect forum.  <sigh>

regarding my use of the word 'punish', i stated it was a _feeling_, not a thought. --->





> some may think that revoking in-line image "privileges" is some sort of generalized 'punishment'


----------



## cuchuflete

Now there's a great idea! Delete all of these options, and then after a month, enable smilies! People will think they have been granted a large bowl of chocolate ice cream!

I am prepared for the day when we have to make our own:

(*j*)
---- 

Cuchu


----------



## el alabamiano

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Now there's a great idea! Delete all of these options, and then after a month, enable smilies! People will think they have been granted a large bowl of chocolate ice cream!
> 
> I am prepared for the day when we have to make our own:
> 
> (*j*)
> ----
> 
> Cuchu


Well, at one time avatars weren't enabled, as I'm sure you know! But while that made my life almost meaningless, I was able to work through it, thanks to some intensive therapy and the occasional beer!

Now I have the most beautiful avatar in the entire universe, displayed at the top of the highest realms for all the world to see! And I'm so very, _very, VERY _happy, now that my life is complete!

_Now if I just had a lousy bowl of choclate ice cream..._


----------



## alc112

¡POr favor no se metan con los avatares!
Creo que los avatares reflejan un poco la forma de ser de cada uno, ¿no creen?


----------



## alc112

Si sacan las imagnes por lo menos podrían agregar algunas emoticones?
Por fa


----------



## garryknight

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> (*j*)
> ----



Oh, you found your 3D glasses! Neat!  

When I saw the Sueño thread I wondered how people on dialup would cope with the download times. Attached images makes sense. And anyone on an old modem can always turn off images in their browser to speed things up further. I've noticed a bit of a slow-down recently and wondered if it had anything to do with the numbers of people logged in at any one time. Has this gone up, does anyone know? Mike?


----------



## cuchuflete

garryknight said:
			
		

> Oh, you found your 3D glasses! Neat!
> 
> When I saw the Sueño thread I wondered how people on dialup would cope with the download times. Attached images makes sense. And anyone on an old modem can always turn off images in their browser to speed things up further. I've noticed a bit of a slow-down recently and wondered if it had anything to do with the numbers of people logged in at any one time. Has this gone up, does anyone know? Mike?



Hi Garry,

Yes, I remember the good old days, back in December of '04, when I was on a 28k (nominal) dial-up modem, running, or limping at about 24k. Average online members were far fewer than today, but through turning off images, and trips to the coffee pot, I survived. Now DSL has reached my tiny hamlet, and things are....well, truth be told, even slower at times.
When I open a text only ['cept avatars] page, it's quite zippy.  But some pages take forever to load.

Mike is busy planning and testing server improvements, but the graphics must make life painful for those without T1, T3 or DSL. The numbers of people logged on at any one time is certainly a part of the issue. The amount of band-width needed for graphics _vs. _text is another.

Just imagine a world in which Neal has his ice cream, we all see nothing but text on the screen, and we have the luxury of thinking about the meaning of the words, undistracted by visual clutter! Oh, and some fool gets to make faces with standard keyboard characters! 

ççççççç​ /{o}||{o}\​ wwww
vv​ 


saludos,
cuchu


----------



## ILT

Just one question, I'm fairly new to the forum and I have to ask:

What are inline images?

Thanks

ILT


----------



## Artrella

Well, ok! We don't have to be so selfish, we have to think about people who don't have broad-band...  
I love drawings and pics....I love giving presents to the foreros....mmmmm!!!...ok! 

Mike... no more smilies??? Or just the pics??  

PS:  This affects the PMs as well?


----------



## cuchuflete

I love translating said:
			
		

> Just one question, I'm fairly new to the forum and I have to ask:
> 
> What are inline images?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ILT



ILT-

Inline images are the large pictures pasted directly into a post.  By contrast, the 'thumbnails' are small graphics which appear below the text.

saludos,
Cuchu


----------



## garryknight

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Just imagine a world in which Neal has his ice cream, we all see nothing but text on the screen [...]



Ouch! You just took me right back to the mid-80s when I (we all) had to make do with a maximum modem download speed of 1200 bps with an upload speed of 75 bps. It *had* to be text only. And there was no such thing as optical cable in those days. And I used to suffer mightily from some glitch that the telco's reps said existed between the cable under the road and the wall socket. As often as not it resulted in a l;ldkoxiupo oisdfkjh;sd [CARRIER LOST]


----------



## cuchuflete

garryknight said:
			
		

> Ouch! You just took me right back to the mid-80s when I (we all) had to make do with a maximum modem download speed of 1200 bps with an upload speed of 75 bps. It *had* to be text only. And there was no such thing as optical cable in those days. And I used to suffer mightily from some glitch that the telco's reps said existed between the cable under the road and the wall socket. As often as not it resulted in a l;ldkoxiupo oisdfkjh;sd [CARRIER LOST]



How strange that you and I, on opposite sides of the puddle, should have shared the same telco rep. My TTX was so damned noisy! And when someone dropped the tray of punch cards....!!!!

More recently I was involved with "green screen" programs for AS/400 applications. When we provided some customers with beta versions of the same programs with a GUI interface, the IT directors were charmed...but the operations managers complained of substantially reduced operator efficiency! Apparently the use of a mouse, and all the pretty graphics, kept some people from paying attention to their work! And this, by the way, was in late 2002!

Since we are getting a bit OT, perhaps we should take these reminiscences about history of technology over to Cultura....

saludos,
Cuchu


----------



## ILT

Cuchu:

Thank you very much  

Have great day (night º,º)

ILT


----------



## gaer

Jabote said:
			
		

> Agree with Fetchez... and may I add that if some people are too chatty and get their fingers slapped for it (wink to fetchez), even some moderators DO use many useless smilies AND veeeeeery long mottos at the end of ALL their messages....
> 
> IMHO, of couse...


Moderators use useless smilies?

I thought it was called tact and diplomacy.

Note the lack of a smiley here.

It's cold.

And I think that was a nasty, needless crack at people who try their damndest to make it very nice here.

IMHO, of course…


----------



## gaer

lauranazario said:
			
		

> Guys and gals,
> Apparently some may think that revoking in-line image "privileges" is some sort of generalized 'punishment' when Mike has made it clear it isn't.
> 
> In post #1 he stated:
> 
> I think we must respect whatever operational decisions are taken by our Administrator to make these forums available to people in every corner of the world and with all forms of internet access services (from slow to high-speed).
> 
> And yes, while in-line images may have made these forums appear more "enjoyable", they are not indispensable for our language discussions. Furthermore, we can all add links to images if we want to --so it's not like that ability has been banned forever.
> 
> I'm just trying to look on the bright side... and encourage everyone to do so as well.
> 
> Saludos,
> LN


Getting rid of pictures that slow down access seems ridiculous if you have a high-speed connection.

Up to a year ago, I did not. And it made all the difference in the world to me when a site was fast loading!

Please don't misunderstand me. I have enjoyed the "in-line pics". When I hit 1000 posts and saw so many wonderful pics, it felt great.

But I think it is fair to remember that many people who come here do not yet have high-speed connections.

The other things we use are very small users of memory. Some pics are not. So I'm trying to look at it from the point of view of people who are connected NOW as I was up until recently. 

Gaer


----------



## supercrom

I have noticed Mr Kellog did that change...
Maybe he can specify the size as he does with the avatars.
It's just a suggestion.

*CROM*


----------



## cuchuflete

cromteaches said:
			
		

> I have noticed Mr Kellog did that change...
> Maybe he can specify the size as he does with the avatars.
> It's just a suggestion.
> 
> *CROM*



Mr. Kellogg has already specified the size.


----------



## supercrom

I think you can at least send in-line images in your PMs (or MP in Spanish).

*CROM*


----------



## cuchuflete

cromteaches said:
			
		

> I think you can at least send in-line images in your PMs (or MP in Spanish).
> 
> *CROM*



Hi Crom,

Any and all graphics, from very large in-line images, to smilies, put an added burden on the server.  The server has been upgraded more than once to deal with this, and with the added number of members.

Forum guidelines make it very clear that PMs are not to be used as a substitute for personal email.  

If this is ambiguous, please let me know by PM, and we can discuss it in whatever detail you like.  

Please remember what these forums are about: discussion of language and words.  Pictures, avatars, smilies, and signatures have all been provided by the Administrator as options, and if they obstruct or distract from the mission of the forums, they may be limited.

saludos,
Cuchu


----------



## gaer

Cuchu,

On of the biggest potential problems I see with graphics is that when people respond, they don't remove them, so if there is anything eating up memory or slowing down the loading of pages, it gets copied many times.

G


----------



## alc112

¿No podría haber una opción para activar o desactivar el poder ver imágenes en los post?


----------



## cuchuflete

alc112 said:
			
		

> ¿No podría haber una opción para activar o desactivar el poder ver imágenes en los post?


 Existe en el software actual. Pero no ayuda si la mayoría de los foreros no lo pongan 'desactivado'.



> Visible Post Elements You have the option to show or hide various elements of messages, which may be of use to users on slow internet connections, or who want to remove extraneous clutter from posts. Show Signatures
> Show Avatars
> Show Images (including attached images and images in  code)
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> This is of little help unless the majority of foreros set the options to "off".
> 
> Cuchu


----------



## Agnès E.

Bonjour Cuchuflete,

Regarding the option : show images (including attached images and images in  code), what does an off option involve ? Excuse this silly question, but I am not familiar with forum habits, and my underlying question is : does this enable quoting while suppressing the images ? (what could be an answer to Gaer's smart suggestion)

Thank you for your attention
Joyeuses Pâques !


----------



## cuchuflete

Hola Compatriota Au Paloma Olmo,

I have turned off the view avatar and view signature options for myself.  I can still see thumbnail images, and this has no affect at all on my ability to paste or read quotations.  The result: Even with DSL, the page refresh is faster, and I am spared the sight of some distracting items. Try it!  It is not permanent. If, after an hour or a day, you wish to turn it back on, you may.

And Gaer's suggestion is a good one.  He brings his suitcase full of common sense with him on every trip to the foros.

Felices Pascuas Agnes,

Cuchu





			
				Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Bonjour Cuchuflete,
> 
> Regarding the option : show images (including attached images and images in  code), what does an off option involve ? Excuse this silly question, but I am not familiar with forum habits, and my underlying question is : does this enable quoting while suppressing the images ? (what could be an answer to Gaer's smart suggestion)
> 
> Thank you for your attention
> Joyeuses Pâques ![/QUOTE]


----------



## Agnès E.

Thank you so much for such a crystal-clear explanation, Cuchuflete ! ))
I'll try it.
Have a nice forum-offline time, haha !


----------



## garryknight

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> I have turned off the view avatar and view signature options for myself.



Ah! That explains why you've been sporting a signature that looks like this for the past few days:
*12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890

*


----------



## fetchezlavache

i have a fast internet connection, but in spite of that fact i too have avatars and signatures disabled


----------



## cuchuflete

garryknight said:
			
		

> Ah! That explains why you've been sporting a signature that looks like this for the past few days:
> *12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
> 
> *


Happy Easter Garry,

It's just a quote from my bionic brother!.   No, in fact it's part of some experiments we are doing with signature sizes.  Some have gotten so big, that there may be some new default settings, to be sure that the messages are not overwhelmed by the signatures. 

 In plain English, there will likely be some limits to the number of characters in a sig., font sizes and such.  Nothing is decided yet..we are just evaluating what will work well for the great majority of foreros.

ciao,
Cuchu


----------



## cuchuflete

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> i have a fast internet connection, but in spite of that fact i too have avatars and signatures disabled



Very wise choice!  It does speed things up for the user, and reduces the load on the server, which especially helps those on dial-up modems.



But once daylily season returns, turn 'display avatars' on once in a while to see what new hybrids have appeared.

abrazos,
Cuchu


----------



## garryknight

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> it's part of some experiments we are doing with signature sizes



OK, thanks, Cuchu. Or should I call you '123...'? And Happy Easter to you, too.


----------



## weird

¡¡Hola a todos!!

Estoy un poco perdida, quiero cumplir las reglas pero no manejo el lenguaje de los chats y de internet, por lo que no se si he entendido bien.

Además toda la conversación entre vosotros está en inglés y la entiendo muy por encima.


¿No se pueden utilizar los avatares? (¡aunque yo he sido incapaz de instalar uno!)
¿No se puede utilizar una firma?
¿No se pueden utilizar los smilies?
¿No se pueden dar direcciones de internet?

Me podéis ayudar, por favor, para ser lo mas rigurosa posible.   

Saludos.   weird


----------



## belén

weird said:
			
		

> ¡¡Hola a todos!!
> 
> Estoy un poco perdida, quiero cumplir las reglas pero no manejo el lenguaje de los chats y de internet, por lo que no se si he entendido bien.
> 
> Además toda la conversación entre vosotros está en inglés y la entiendo muy por encima.
> 
> 
> ¿No se pueden utilizar los avatares? (¡aunque yo he sido incapaz de instalar uno!)
> ¿No se puede utilizar una firma?
> ¿No se pueden utilizar los smilies?
> ¿No se pueden dar direcciones de internet?
> 
> Me podéis ayudar, por favor, para ser lo mas rigurosa posible.
> 
> Saludos.   weird




No, no, nadie ha dicho nada de eso!! Mira mira     

Lo que pasa es que se han quitado las imágenes esas que ponías con un link y te salía una foto, a fin de que el servidor no pese tanto y vaya más rápido para todos los usuarios (sobre todo los que usan una conexión de modem y no de banda ancha)

Respecto a los avatares y las firmas, se comentaba por ahí arriba que hay una opción de usuario que puedes seleccionar - si quieres - para NO ver los avatares ni las firmas de los demás, eso ayuda a agilizar el servidor.

Las direcciones de internet se pueden dar para indicar fuentes de información etc. Se permite publicarlas desde que el usuario es "member" (a partir de 30 posts)

Un abrazo, espero haber aclarado tus dudas
Belén


----------



## weird

belen said:
			
		

> No, no, nadie ha dicho nada de eso!! Mira mira
> 
> Lo que pasa es que se han quitado las imágenes esas que ponías con un link y te salía una foto, a fin de que el servidor no pese tanto y vaya más rápido para todos los usuarios (sobre todo los que usan una conexión de modem y no de banda ancha)
> 
> Respecto a los avatares y las firmas, se comentaba por ahí arriba que hay una opción de usuario que puedes seleccionar - si quieres - para NO ver los avatares ni las firmas de los demás, eso ayuda a agilizar el servidor.
> 
> Las direcciones de internet se pueden dar para indicar fuentes de información etc. Se permite publicarlas desde que el usuario es "member" (a partir de 30 posts)
> 
> Un abrazo, espero haber aclarado tus dudas
> Belén



¡Belen, eres un encanto!  ¡muchas gracias, no había entendido nada!
Saludos.


----------



## alc112

¿No creen que si no podemos poner más imagenes al menos nos podrían dar algunas emoticones más?


----------



## cuchuflete

alc112 said:
			
		

> ¿No creen que si no podemos poner más imagenes al menos nos podrían dar algunas emoticones más?



Alc,

Este es un foro de palabras y lenguas.  Con un poquito de esfuerzo, puedes expresar todo que quieras con palabras. 

un saludo,
Cuchu


----------



## gaer

Hmm. I was wondering about one thing: some of you say that you have avitars and signatures disabled, yet you are using them yourselves. Is there some reason for that?

Personally I find the avatars (sp?) extremely helpful for identifying people who have similar nicknames.

I'm not quite so sure how I feel about signatures. For awhile, I simply chose not to use one, but I do enjoy seeing what people choose for themselves. I often wish people changed their signatures more often. 

I think a limitation on the number of characters used in signatures would be reasonable though. Perhaps, for instance, the one I've been using is already too long. It's really a tough call, because it's a matter of choosing the right balance between streamlining, which I think we all want, and warmth, which I think we would lose if things get TOO streamlined. To me it would be very easy to make things much "colder".

Once again, thank goodness I don't have to make such decisions. 

Gaer


----------



## garryknight

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Con un poquito de esfuerzo, puedes expresar todo que quieras con palabras.



Pues, sí, claro. Como se puede ver en Usenet.


----------



## jacinta

Hello, All;

I remember WAY back when this forum was just a babe in arms, when there were no avatars (I learned that word here), no signatures, and only a few smilies available.  I only began using smilies when someone accused me of being unemotional in my responses (!)  When I found this forum, in July, 2004, I thought it was the most wonderful place because it allowed me to do what I enjoy most:  learn and discuss languages with native speakers.  All we had back then were words.  I appreciated the simplicity of being able to ask a question and get an almost instantaneous answer!  Remarkable.

I personally feel that all these add-ons, signatures a mile long, images and avatars, although very entertaining and thought-provoking, are unnecessary.  I will turn off the image option, something I haven't done, because sometimes things do run slower than I'd like, even though I have a cable modem.

I would love to see this forum return to what it is intended; to seriously study languages.


----------



## gaer

jacinta said:
			
		

> Hello, All;
> 
> I remember WAY back when this forum was just a babe in arms, when there were no avatars (I learned that word here), no signatures, and only a few smilies available. I only began using smilies when someone accused me of being unemotional in my responses (!) When I found this forum, in July, 2004, I thought it was the most wonderful place because it allowed me to do what I enjoy most: learn and discuss languages with native speakers. All we had back then were words. I appreciated the simplicity of being able to ask a question and get an almost instantaneous answer! Remarkable.
> 
> I personally feel that all these add-ons, signatures a mile long, images and avatars, although very entertaining and thought-provoking, are unnecessary. I will turn off the image option, something I haven't done, because sometimes things do run slower than I'd like, even though I have a cable modem.
> 
> I would love to see this forum return to what it is intended; to seriously study languages.


I had never heard the word "avatar" before, at least used as it is here, for pictures.

Anything can be taken to an extreme. I would favor a moderate approach. I have experienced no loading problems except when the site seems to be temporarily slow for what I assume are other reasons, perhaps many people on at the same time.

My reply here seems cold to me. I disabled the smilies, I removed my signature, and the only thing left is to remove the avatar.

I am as much in favor of serious discussion about language as you are, I believe, but when we have only words, no faces, no gestures, I think it can get a bit cold. <no smile, no icon, no clue as to what I'm feeling>

Gaer


----------



## jacinta

Could it be that you're not used to seeing yourself naked like this?  I don't have the same feeling as you, that your response is cold.  I don't know...maybe you're right.  I do know that our fearless leader is ultimately the one to decide.  For now, just the images.  Turn your signature back on.  It's not taken away, yet!  We live through our words.


----------



## cuchuflete

jacinta said:
			
		

> Could it be that you're not used to seeing yourself naked like this? I don't have the same feeling as you, that your response is cold. I don't know...maybe you're right. I do know that our fearless leader is ultimately the one to decide. For now, just the images. Turn your signature back on. It's not taken away, yet! We live through our words.



I agree with Jacinta, Gaer.  You don't come across as cold.  Before all the graphics crept in, we had very lively, witty, and serious exchanges.  People got to know one another by their writing styles.  The atmosphere was absolutely NOT cold.  

Consider what it would be like for newcomers if, for example, all the "extra" features were turned off for a week or two.  Some of us 'old timers' might go through a day or two of withdrawal symptoms, while the newbies would just get to know us, and we them, by our words.

C.


----------



## Agnès E.

Bonjour !
The thing for me is that smilies replace the tone of the voice : I mean, in a bilingual forum, where we have not perfectly command of the language, we might sometimes be awkward and choose a wrong phrase to express what we mean (remember my "I hope I made myself quite clear" aïe aïe aïe !!!) and smilies help after such kind of phrases (you know how much we, French, do like talking with our whole body, don't you !). 
Obviously, we can do without them, but they are a little bit of fun I appreciate.
Regarding in-line images, I agree that links are sufficient, just a question of clicking on them, I think I am up to it.
May I add that I appreciate recognizing my buddies by their avatar, you know I'm a bit nickname-reading impaired.

Hey ! I wrote a whole post without a smilie !!

Agnes
Moon Cypress Worm Ca


----------



## mkellogg

Are there any other old-timers around who remember the day that you had to write out smilies instead of inserting images? ; )

Disabling smilies would still allow the text smilies.

Mike


----------



## cuchuflete

(* j*)  ..........






..


----------



## DDT

*+*

*_*


*@*

(*#*)


----------



## gaer

jacinta said:
			
		

> Could it be that you're not used to seeing yourself naked like this? I don't have the same feeling as you, that your response is cold. I don't know...maybe you're right. I do know that our fearless leader is ultimately the one to decide. For now, just the images. Turn your signature back on. It's not taken away, yet! We live through our words.


 
It's possible that you are right. I truly do not know. I did not turn my signature off. I don't like using the same one day after day, and the one I had was around a couple days.

I may add another later.

Is there any way to permanently disable smilies without clicking them off in each post?

Gaer


----------



## gaer

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> I agree with Jacinta, Gaer. You don't come across as cold. Before all the graphics crept in, we had very lively, witty, and serious exchanges. People got to know one another by their writing styles. The atmosphere was absolutely NOT cold.
> 
> Consider what it would be like for newcomers if, for example, all the "extra" features were turned off for a week or two. Some of us 'old timers' might go through a day or two of withdrawal symptoms, while the newbies would just get to know us, and we them, by our words.
> 
> C.


Well, I never used graphics before, and I still don't.

I just never figured out a way to stop the site from converting them.

I only use  and 

But even in private mail with my closest friends, I use the old ascii symbols, as above, because it helps me let people know when I am joking, when I'm serious, and when I'm not feeling well.

You know my feelings well, because we've talked. I want people to be respectful of each other, to make their points quietly and politely. I think it's more important to be kind than right, unless being kind means backing down and allowing someone else to be bullied. I'm a very simple person.

Other than that, I have no strong feelings about graphics or lack of them. I'm all for what will make things work most smoothly and what will allow the greatest number of people to come here.

G


----------

