# elements



## elroy

Which of the elements have names in your language, or a language you know, that are not cognates of the Latin names?

In *Arabic*:

sulfur: كبريت /kibri:t/
iron: حديد /ħadi:d/
copper: نحاس /nuħa:s/
silver: فضة /fidˤdˤa/
tin: قصدير /qasˤdi:r/
antimony: إثمد /iθmid/
gold: ذهب /ðahab/
mercury: زئبق /ziʔbaq/
lead: رصاص /rasˤa:sˤ/
potassium: بوتاسيوم /pota:siom/
sodium: صوديوم /sˤo:diom/
tungsten: تنغستن /tangsten/

(I've given the Standard Arabic pronunciations.  In Palestinian Arabic the names are the same, but some of the pronunciations differ.)

In *German*:

sulfur: Schwefel
iron: Eisen
silver: Silber
tin: Zinn
antimony: Antimon
gold: Gold
mercury: Quecksilber
lead: Blei
hydrogen: Wasserstoff
carbon: Kohlenstoff
nitrogen: Stickstoff
oxygen: Sauerstoff

I'll keep a tally of all elements with a non-cognate name in at least one language:



​*Arabic*​*German*​*Chinese**Greek**Russian**Hungarian**Japanese**Spanish**Italian**Polish**Hebrew**sulfur*​**​**​*iron*​**​**​*copper*​**​​*arsenic*​​​*silver*​**​**​*tin*​**​**​*antimony*​**​**​*gold*​**​**​*mercury*​**​**​*lead*​**​**​*hydrogen*​​**​*carbon*​​**​*nitrogen*​​**​*oxygen*​​**​*phosphorus **chlorine**bromine**fluorine**silicon***potassium**sodium**tungsten**zinc**calcium**platinum**aluminum*

*Not in Taiwan.


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## Frank78

elroy said:


> helium: Edelgas
> 
> 
> ​



"Edelgase" is just the name of the group in the periodic system: "noble gases", containing helium, neon, argon, krypton, xenon and  radon.

All noble gases have the same name in English and German.


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## elroy

Frank78 said:


> "Edelgase" is just the name of the group in the periodic system: "noble gases", containing helium, neon, argon, krypton, xenon,  radon.
> 
> All noble gases have the same name in English and German.


Oops!  I checked Wikipedia to compile the list and for some reason accidentally looked at the "Kategorie" column for "helium."   I did find that surprising but thought, what do I know, maybe it's just one of those vocabulary words I didn't know!  

I've corrected it in Post #1.


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## Ghabi

Modern Written Chinese:

氫 Hydrogen (modern coinage, etymologically 輕 “light [in weight]”)
碳 Carbon (modern coinage, etymologically 炭 “charcoal”)
氮 Nitrogen (modern coinage, etymologically 淡 “diluting [the air]”)
氧 Oxygen (modern coinage, etymologically 養 “life-supporting”)
磷 Phosphorus (etymologically 燐 “will-o’-the-wisp”)
硫 Sulphur
氯 Chlorinde (modern calque: “green [gas]”)
鐵 Iron
銅 Copper
溴 Brominde (modern calque: “stinky [gas]”)
銀 Silver
錫 Tin
金 Gold
汞 Mercury
鉛 Lead


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## elroy

So the Chinese word for “antimony” is a cognate of the Latin _stibium_? 

(chlori*n*e and bromi*n*e)


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## Ghabi

For most of the elements, they just took a part of the Latin name (as they wanted the Chinese word to be monosyllabic), as in the case of antimony:

銻 *tī* s*ti*bium

, not sure if you can call them cognates ("truncation"?) (Sorry for the typos, will correct them!).


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## elroy

Ghabi said:


> not sure if you can call them cognates


That’ll do for our purposes.  I just want to know if the names are *based on* the Latin names.


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Sulphur: *«Θείο»* [ˈθi.o̞] (neut.) < Classical *«θεῖον» tʰeîŏn* (neut.) --> _brimstone_, lit. _the divine element_ (because it was used to fumigate and purify) < Classical masc. *«θεός» tʰĕós* (masc.). Colloquially in MoGr is also called *«θειάφι»* [ˈθçafi] (neut.) < ByzGr neuter diminutive *«θειάφιον» theiáphion* from «θεῖον» 
Iron: *«Σίδηρος»* [ˈs̠iðiɾo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. *«σίδηρος» sídērŏs* --> _iron, iron tool_ (Origin unclear. The Greeks got to know iron from Asia Minor, the Pontus and Caucasus, and it is likely that they took over the word for it from these areas as well. In that sense, the resemblance with the Caucasian word (Udian) zido, _iron_ may be relevant). In colloquial MoGr it's *«σίδερο»* [ˈs̠iðe̞ɾo̞] (neut.) 
Copper: *«Χαλκός»* [xalˈko̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«χαλκός» kʰălkós* --> _ore, copper_, Mycenaean syllabary ka-ko (an IE term is improbable, as a word with an aspirate and a voiceless stop is not tolerated. The similarity with the word for _purple_, «κάλχη» (kắlkʰē), also «χάλκη» (kʰắlkē) and «χάλχη» (kʰắlkʰē), is hardly accidental) 
Arsenic: *«Αρσενικό»* [ars̠e̞niˈko̞] (neut.) < Classical neuter noun *«ἀρσενικόν» ărsĕnĭkón*. It has its origin in the Syriac word ܠܐ ܙܐܦܢܝܐ (al) zarniqa, from Arabic al-zarnīḵ الزرنيخ 'the orpiment', based on Persian zar 'gold' from the word زرنيخ zarnikh, meaning "yellow" (literally "gold-colored") and hence "(yellow) orpiment". It was adopted into Greek as arsenikon (ἀρσενικόν), which is folk etymology, being the neuter form of the Greek word arsenikos (ἀρσενικός), meaning "male", "virile" (wiki) 
Silver: *«Άργυρος»* [ˈarʝiɾo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«ἄργυρος» ắrɡŭrŏs* --> _silver_ (PIE *h₂erɡ́- _brilliant, white_ cf. Skt. अर्जुन (arjuna), _white_, रजत (rajata), _whitish, silver_, Lat. arɡuere, _to clarify_, lit. _to make briɡht_, arɡentum, ToB ārkwi, _white_). Mycenaean syllabary a-ku-ro.
The Greek word is related to the Latin name  but unrelated to the English one 
Tin: *«Κασσίτερος»* [kaˈs̠it̠e̞ɾo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«κασσίτερος» kăssítĕrŏs*, hence *«Κασσιτερίδες νῆσοι» Κăssĭtĕrídĕs nêsoi* --> _Cassiterid islands, tin islands_, the name of the British isles for the ancient Greeks 
Antimony: *«Αντιμόνιο»* [andiˈmo̞ni.o̞] (neut.).
The mediaeval Latin and Byzantine names are the same «ἀντιμόνιον» antimonium, probably a compound word meaning _not found unalloyed_. The Egyptians called antimony _mśdmt, _which in Coptic became ⲥⲧⲏⲙ (stēm).
There's also a Classical Greek name for it, *«στίμμι» stímmĭ* probably an Egyptian loan, and the rare one *«στίβι» stíbĭ* (neut.) which was adopted in modern Chemistry nomenclature as _stibium_.
So, it has a complicated history. It's related to the English name  and the mediaeval Latin one  but it's unrelated to the modern Latin name of the element 
Gold: *«Χρυσός»* [xriˈs̠o̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical masc. noun *«χρῡσός» kʰrūsós* (probably a Semitic loan, from the Akkadian ḫurāşu (root √h-r-s). In colloquial MoGr it's *«χρυσάφι»* [xriˈs̠afi] (neut.) < ByzGr neuter diminutive *«χρυσάφιον» khrysáphion*, from «χρυσός». Mycenaean syllabary ku-ru-so 
Mercury: *«Υδράργυρος»* [iˈðrarʝiɾo̞s̠] (masc.) a modern construction (1802) lit. _liquid-silver_ 
Lead: *«Μόλυβδος»* [ˈmo̞livðo̞s̠] (masc.) < Classical noun *«μόλυβδος/μόλιβος» mólubdŏs* (masc.) and (var.) *mólibŏs* (masc.), probably an early Anatolian loan, possibly from Lydian marivda- _murky. _Mycenaean syllabary mo-ri-wo-do 
Hydrogen: *«Υδρογόνο»* [iðro̞ˈɣo̞no̞] (neut.) a modern name (1783) coined by Lavoisier 
Carbon: *«Άνθρακας»* [ˈanθrakas̠] (masc.) < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun *«ἄνθραξ» ắntʰrăks* (nom. sinɡ.), *«ἄνθρακος» ắntʰrăkŏs* (ɡen. sinɡ.) 
Nitrogen: *«Άζωτο»* [ˈazo̞to̞] (neut.) a modern word (1790) coined by Lavoisier (the international community preferred Chaptal's suɡɡestion, _nitrogène_ which prevailed) 
Oxygen: *«Οξυγόνο»* [o̞k͡s̠iˈɣo̞no̞] (neut.) a modern name (1777) coined by Lavoisier 

_Edit: Apologies for my late correction but Tin is Κασσίτερος and not Ψευδάργυρος._


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## Awwal12

in Russian:

sulfur: сера (séra) 
iron: железо (zhelézo) 
copper: медь (med') 
arsenic: мышьяк (mysh'yák) 
silver: серебро (serebró)  (from the same source as *_silubra_, but unrelated to _argentum_)
tin: олово (ólovo) 
antimony: сурьма (sur'má) 
gold: золото (zóloto)  (again, related to *_gulþą_, but not to _aurum_)
mercury: ртуть (rtút') 
lead: свинец (svinéts) 
hydrogen: водород (vodoród)  
carbon: углерод (ugleród) 
nitrogen: азот (azót) 
oxygen: кислород (kisloród) 
phosphorus: фосфор (fósfor)   
chlorine: хлор (khlór) 
bromine: бром (bróm)


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## Awwal12

It should be probably noted, however, that the Russian words for hydrogen and oxygen are direct calques (though I don't know if they can really be called calques from Latin, considering that Latin uses Greek roots here).


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## AquisM

Ghabi said:


> For most of the elements, they just took a part of the Latin name (as they wanted the Chinese word to be monosyllabic)





elroy said:


> That’ll do for our purposes.  I just want to know if the names are *based on* the Latin names.


Silicon is an interesting case for Chinese, because it has different names in China and Taiwan (scientific terminology is not standardised between the two regions, so differences in terminology are relatively common), and one of them is from Latin while the other is not. Silicon's name in Taiwan is 矽 _xì_, which is clearly based on the Latin name.

Meanwhile, China calls silicon 硅 _guī_, which is borrowed from Japanese 珪素 _keiso_ (lit. _kei_-substance). This Japanese term is derived from 珪土 _keido_ (lit. _kei-_earth; now obsolete term for silica), which is itself a partial calque of Dutch _keiaarde_. The Japanese transliterated the _kei_ part of the Dutch word (meaning "cobblestone/pebble") with an unrelated character having a similar pronunciation 珪, and then translated the _aarde_ part as 土 "earth". Hence, the PRC Chinese name for silicon is ultimately derived from Dutch.


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## elroy

To be clear, this thread is about all element names, not just the ones you see in the first post.  If your language uses a cognate of the Latin name for a specific element, you don’t need to mention it.  Conversely, please do mention ones that are not cognates and don’t appear in the first post. 

Also, @chamyto, you used  for the opposite of what I used it for, but I’ll figure it out.


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## Awwal12

The Russian word for silicon is curious: кремний (krémniy) uses the pseudo-Latin suffixoid -iy (from -*i*um, according to the Slavic adaptation of Latin morphemes), but the native root for "flint" - кремень (krémen'). That pattern is generally uncommon.


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## elroy

AquisM said:


> 矽 _xì_, which is clearly based on the Latin name.


Clearly?   It's not at all clear to a non-Chinese speaker!  I would've never guessed that Chinese chopped off syllables to keep the words monosyllabic. 



apmoy70 said:


> Arsenic: *«Αρσενικό»* [ars̠e̞niˈko̞] (neut.) < Classical neuter noun *«ἀρσενικόν» ărsĕnĭkón*. It has its origin in the Syriac word ܠܐ ܙܐܦܢܝܐ (al) zarniqa, from Arabic al-zarnīḵ الزرنيخ 'the orpiment', based on Persian zar 'gold' from the word زرنيخ zarnikh, meaning "yellow" (literally "gold-colored") and hence "(yellow) orpiment". It was adopted into Greek as arsenikon (ἀρσενικόν), which is folk etymology, being the neuter form of the Greek word arsenikos (ἀρσενικός), meaning "male", "virile" (wiki)


Wait, so the Arabic word is a cognate of the Latin word?   I would've never guessed!  I guess there was metathesis with the first two consonants: a*rs*enic vs. /*z*i*r*ni:ʒ/.  I'll remove this one from the Arabic list. 

@AquisM, @chamyto, and @Awwal12, please check the table in Post 1, and let me know if anything needs to be added, omitted, or modified.


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## AndrasBP

elroy said:


> sulfur: كبريت /kibri:t/


'кибрит' (kibrit) means 'match' (to make fire) in Bulgarian/Macedonian!

*Hungarian*:

sulphur: *kén*
iron: *vas*
copper: *réz*
silver: *ezüst*
tin: *ón*
gold: *arany*
mercury: *higany*
lead: *ólom*
carbon: *szén*


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## elroy

I just realized that I had missed two Arabic ones -- potassium and sodium -- because of an English influence!  These are cognates of the _English_ names, but not the Latin ones. German, on the other hand, does use Latin cognates for both of these.  What about the other languages?

(I've updated the table.) 



AndrasBP said:


> 'кибрит' (kibrit) means 'match' (to make fire) in Bulgarian/Macedonian!


In Palestinian Arabic it means "matches" as a collective plural (one single match is a كبريتة /kibri:te/).  I guess Bulgarian and Macedonian borrowed it from Arabic?  I wonder what sulfur has to do with matches?


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## elroy

AndrasBP said:


> mercury: *higany*


Wow, if you had told me this was a cognate of the Latin name I would have believed you, given that its chemical symbol is Hg! 

(I've now checked and seen that the Latin name has way more consonants: _hydrargyrum_.)


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## AndrasBP

elroy said:


> I guess Bulgarian and Macedonian borrowed it from Arabic?


Most likely from Ottoman Turkish.


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## Awwal12

elroy said:


> I wonder what sulfur has to do with matches?


Well, heads of most types of matches do contain sulphur (which creates the characteristic odour of burned sulphur when the match is lit).


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## elroy

elroy said:


> I just realized that I had missed two Arabic ones -- potassium and sodium -- because of an English influence!


And one more -- tungsten!  Again, German does actually use a Latin cognate!

I've double-checked and I think my Arabic list should be complete at this point.


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## elroy

Awwal12 said:


> when the match is lighted


when the match is *lit**
(per the invitation in your signature )


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## Awwal12

elroy said:


> I would've never guessed that Chinese chopped off syllables to keep the words monosyllabic.


It's not always like that, but overall it's MUCH easier than attempting to find the sequence of Chinese morphemes which would have appropriate phonetic values AND meanings, so it's perfectly understandable.


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## elroy

Awwal12 said:


> attempting to find the sequence of Chinese morphemes which would have appropriate phonetic values AND meanings


My understanding is that it's very common for such coinages to be multisyllabic, and I didn't think the meanings always had to be appropriate?

Also, are all element names in Chinese monosyllabic?  Even dysprosium and rutherfordium?


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## Awwal12

elroy said:


> and I didn't think the meanings always had to be appropriate?


Meanings are important, of course, because the Chinese writing system is purely ideographic and you always have to make do with the existing ideograms somehow.


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## Awwal12

...I mean, no one wants the situation when you have to spell "hydrogen" as "blue rose" or, even worse, "horse sh*t" (because the next question would naturally be "why in the world should it be spelled like that?").


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## alfaalfa

Ciao
in Italian,
nitrogen: _azoto_ 
neon: _neon_  
manganese: _manganese_ 
nickel:_ nichel_ 

p.s


Awwal12 said:


> heads of most types of matches do contain sulphur


matches in Italian are called _solfanelli/zolfanelli_ too.


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## elroy

alfaalfa said:


> neon: _neon_
> manganese: _manganese_
> nickel:_ nichel_


But these are cognates, aren’t they?


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## AquisM

elroy said:


> Clearly?   It's not at all clear to a non-Chinese speaker!  I would've never guessed that Chinese chopped off syllables to keep the words monosyllabic.


Fair. I guess the connection would also have been clearer if I had written the pronunciation of 矽 in IPA (/ɕi⁵¹/) instead of just the romanised Pinyin form.

Elements in Japanese not cognate with Latin
(kanji in parentheses - replaced with katakana in modern orthography to avoid rare kanji)
*Hydrogen*: 水素 _suiso_ "water substance" (calque)
*Carbon*: 炭素 _tanso _"charcoal substance" (cf. 碳 in Chinese)
*Nitrogen*: 窒素 _chisso_ "suffocating substance" (calque of Dutch _stikstof_)
*Oxygen*: 酸素 _sanso_ "acid substance" (calque)
*Silicon*: ケイ素 (珪素) _keiso _"_kei_ substance" (partial calque from Dutch; see my post #11)
*Iron*: 鉄 _tetsu_ (from Chinese)
*Copper*: 銅 _dō_ (from Chinese)
*Zinc*: 亜鉛 _a'en_ "sub-lead" (apparently because zinc is often found in lead ores)
*Arsenic*: ヒ素 (砒素) "arsenic trioxide substance" (arsenic trioxide known as a poison/alternative medicine since ancient times, traditionally called 砒霜 in Chinese)
*Bromine*: 臭素 _shūso _"stinky substance" (calque)
*Silver*: 銀 _gin_ (from Chinese) *_g_ is always hard in romanised Japanese
*Tin*: スズ (錫) _suzu_ (native word)
*Platinum*: 白金 _hakkin_ "white gold" (calque of Dutch _witgoud_)
*Gold*: 金 _kin_ (from Chinese)
*Mercury*: 水銀 _suigin_ "water silver" (either calque of Latin_ hydrargyrum_ or from Chinese 水銀 "mercury (informal)")
*Lead*: 鉛 _namari_ (native word)

EDIT: Whoops, forgot these two:
*Chlorine*: 塩素 _enso_ "salt substance" (calque of Dutch _zoutstof_)
*Sulphur*: 硫黄 _iō_ (from Chinese) (Fun fact: Iwo Jima 硫黄島 literally means "sulphur island", so named due to the presence of sulphur on the island)



elroy said:


> Also, are all element names in Chinese monosyllabic? Even dysprosium and rutherfordium?


Yes, by deliberate design. *Dy*sprosium is 鏑 _dī_, and *ru*therfordium is 鑪 _lú_. Which syllable gets transliterated and how the pronunciation is approximated is decided by some official scientific committee, then a new character is created based on this according to specific rules.


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## Frank78

elroy said:


> I just realized that I had missed two Arabic ones -- potassium and sodium -- because of an English influence!  These are cognates of the _English_ names, but not the Latin ones. German, on the other hand, does use Latin cognates for both of these.  What about the other languages



At least a Latinized form of an Arabic word, "Kalium" from _"al qalja" (plant ash).

"Natrium" Egyptian netjer, from Arabic natrun _


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## elroy

AquisM said:


> Yes, by deliberate design. *Dy*sprosium is 鏑 _dī_, and *ru*therfordium is 鑪 _lú_.






AquisM said:


> a new character is created


Oh!  So they’re not existing characters!  Chinese keeps surprising me.



Frank78 said:


> At least a Latinzed form of an Arabic word, "Kalium" from _"al qalja" (plant ash).
> 
> "Natrium" Egyptian netjer, from Arabic natrun _


Ironic, right?  The Latin words are from Arabic but the Arabic words are from English.  

It’s kind of like how almost every language uses Arabic numerals, but Arabic doesn’t.


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## elroy

Why did Dutch influence Japanese chemical element names so much?  I would not have expected that.


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## AndrasBP

elroy said:


> And one more -- tungsten! Again, German does actually use a *Latin *cognate!


But 'Wolfram' is not Latin, is it?


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## elroy

Sorry, I meant “a cognate of the Latin word.”  I took a shortcut.


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## AndrasBP

elroy said:


> of the Latin word.”


Still, I don't think "Wolfram" can be considered a Latin word. Or is it a Germanic loan in Latin?   

🔲



I've just found out that "aluminium" is "hliník" in "Czechoslovak" and "glin" in Polish.


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## elroy

The Latin word is _wolframium_, isn’t it?  It’s not a _native_ Latin word, but it’s *the* Latin word for tungsten.  In this thread I’m interested in whether the names are cognates of the actual words used in Latin, whether or not they’re native Latin words.  To make it simple, I want to know which names don’t match the symbols.


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## AquisM

elroy said:


> Oh!  So they’re not existing characters!  Chinese keeps surprising me.


Most of them are new characters (the Chinese name for oganesson can't even be properly rendered on my mobile browser yet), but sometimes they're able to dig up an obscure ancient character that works and repurpose it as the name of the new element.



elroy said:


> Why did Dutch influence Japanese chemical element names so much?  I would not have expected that.


From the 17th century to the 19th century, Japan adopted an isolationist foreign policy (_sakoku_). After the Portuguese were expelled from Japan in 1639, the Dutch were the only Europeans allowed to trade with Japan directly, so during this time, Japan only got to know Western science through the Dutch. There was even the term _rangaku_ (蘭学; 蘭 _ran _abbrev. of _o*ran*da_ "Holland" + 学 _gaku _"study, learning") to describe the study of Western science and technology.


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## Penyafort

In Spanish, I can only think of the word *azogue *for mercury, coming from Andalusi Arabic _az-zawq_, from Arabic *زَاؤُوق* 'quicksilver'.


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## apmoy70

elroy said:


> To be clear, this thread is about all element names, not just the ones you see in the first post.  If your language uses a cognate of the Latin name for a specific element, you don’t need to mention it.  Conversely, please do mention ones that are not cognates and don’t appear in the first post.


Zinc: *«Ψευδάργυρος»* [p͡s̠e̞vˈðarʝiɾo̞s̠] (masc.) < Koine masc. noun *«ψευδάργυρος» pseudắrɡŭrŏs* --> mock-silver. Unrelated to both the Mediaeval Latin (zincum) and English names.
Calcium: *«Ασβέστιο»* [azˈve̞s̠t̠io̞] (neut.) < Classical fem. *«ἄσβεστος» ắsbĕstŏs* --> lit. _unquenchable, unextinguishable, unslaked_, it described _lime_. Note: It never means 'asbestos'*** in Greek.
Platinum: *«Λευκόχρυσος»* [le̞fˈko̞xris̠o̞s̠] (masc.) --> _white-ɡold_. The name is used only in Greek and in some Oriental languages: 白金 (Mand.: báijīn, Jap.: hakkin), 백금 (Kor.: baekgeum), Viet.: bạch kim; probably calques for the Late Mediaeval Dutch _witgoud_.
Aluminium/aluminum: *«Άργιλος»* [ˈarʝilo̞s̠] (fem.) < Classical fem. noun *«ἄργιλ(λ)ος» ắrɡĭl(l)ŏs* --> _white clay_ (probably a substrate word, the Latin arɡilla is a loan from Greek).
Silicon: *«Πυρίτιο»* [piˈɾit̠i.o̞] (neut.) a modern word, a semantic loan of the Latin word _silex_ from which the name _silicium_ derives.
Potassium: *«Κάλιο»* [ˈkali.o̞] (neut.) < Ar. القَلْيَه (al-qalyah); the word is related to its Latin name, Kalium, but it's unrelated to the English name.
Sodium: *«Νάτριο»* [ˈnatri.o̞] (neut.), a modern name (1814) coined by Berzelius as _natrium_; the word is related to its Latin name, but it's unrelated to the English name.

***Which is *«αμίαντος»* [aˈmi.ando̞s̠] (masc.) < Fr. amiante


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## alfaalfa

elroy said:


> But these are cognates, aren’t they?


Maybe I misread the topic or I failed my check but, even if the names match the symbols, I found:
*nèon*_ s. m. [dal gr. νέον, neutro dell’agg. νέος «nuovo»]
*nìchel* (o *nichèlio*) s. m. [dallo sved. nickel, tratto dal ted. Kupfernickel (comp. di Kupfer «rame» e Nickel «genietto maligno», quasi a dire «folletto del rame», quindi «falso rame»)
*manganese* Dal gr. biz. magnḗsion = magnesia dalla voce più antica (III - IV secolo) magnesía = della (o delle) città di Magnesia. Dato che l'elemento si trova spesso unito con il ferro nei minerali, il nome richiama la proprietà del (ferro)magnetismo, osservata già nel periodo greco in alcune rocce estratte nei pressi della città di Magnesia in Asia Minore._

If it's totally wrong I'll delete everything. 


typo


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## AndrasBP

fluorine (F):

Greek - *φθόριο* (fthório)
Russian - *фтор* (ftor)


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish

sulfur: *siarka *,  from Proto-Slavic *sěra *, or Old East Slavic _*цѣрь *??_
iron: *żelazo *, from Proto-Slavic _*želězo *,_ Likely of Proto-Balto-Slavic origin, related to Lithuanian *geležìs*, Latvian *dzèlzs*.

copper: *miedź*, from Proto-Slavic _*mědь*, Perhaps related to Proto-Germanic **smiþaz*, Ancient Greek *σμῑ́λη* (smī́lē), Proto-Celtic **mēnis*._

silver: *srebro*, from Proto-Slavic *sьrebrȍ*.
Old Polish: śrzebro, śrebro, strzebro, jrzebro.
A wanderword from a non-Indo-European language, perhaps originally substrate.
Compare Lithuanian *sidãbras*, Latvian *sidrabs*, *sudrabs*, Old Prussian* sirablan*, and to the west, Proto-Germanic **silubrą*, Basque *zilar*, and Proto-Berber **a-ẓrəf*.

gold: *złoto *from Proto-Slavic *zolto*, Old Cyrillic: *злато* (zlato), *золъто* (zolŭto)  From Proto-Indo-European **ǵʰólh₃tom* (“gold”), from Proto-Indo-European **ǵʰelh₃*- (“yellow; gleam; to shine”). Cognate with Latvian *zȩ̀lts*, English *gold*. See also Persian *زر‎* (zar)

mercury: *rtęć*, inherited from Proto-Slavic **rьtǫtь*. Probably a fossilized present active participle. Possibly related to Lithuanian *rìsti* (“to roll”), *riẽsti *(“to roll up”), Latvian *rist* (“to roll”),* riest* (“to fall off, separate”).

lead: *ołów*, inherited from Proto-Slavic _**olovo*_. Cognate with Lithuanian _*álvas*_, Latvian _*alva*_ and Old Prussian _*alwis*_.


tin: cyna
antimony: antymon
potassium: potas
sodium: sód
tungsten : wolfram


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## elroy

alfaalfa said:


> If it's totally wrong I'll delete everithing.


Ah, I see the confusion now!  Like I told @AndrasBP, I'm interested in knowing whether the names are cognates of the actual names used in Latin (on which the symbols are based), even if some of those names are not of Latin origin!



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> tungsten : wolfram


"wolfram" is a cognate of the name used in Latin: _wolframium_.

@Penyafort and @alfaalfa, I think you missed antimony, potassium, sodium, and tungsten; and alfaalfa, I think you missed mercury.  I've added these.  Can you confirm?

@AquisM, I think you missed antimony and tungsten, so I've added them.  Can you confirm?

@AndrasBP, I think you "missed" antimony, so I've added it.  Can you confirm?  (I put "missed" in quotation marks because I suspect you didn't include it because it does come from Latin even though it's not a cognate of _stibium_.)

@Włoskipolak 72, what about hydrogen (wodór), carbon (węgiel), nitrogen (azot), oxygen (tlen), aluminum (glin), silicon (krzem),  and calcium (wapń)? I got these from here, and I've added them.  Can you confirm?

This has been a really interesting exercise!  I'm surprised to see that most of the Chinese names are based on the Latin names and that they've all been reduced to one syllable.  I'm also surprised to see that a lot of the Japanese names are based on the Latin names.  I'm also surprised to see some unexpected ones, like bromine in Chinese and platinum in Japanese!


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## AquisM

elroy said:


> @AquisM, I think you missed antimony and tungsten, so I've added them.  Can you confirm?


Ah, yes; I had forgotten that the English names are not derived from Latin.

Antimony is アンチモン _anchimon_, and tungsten is タングステン _tangusuten_. The latter is very likely from English, while the former is apparently borrowed from German.


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## AquisM

@elroy Oh my goodness, looking at the table again, I realise I also missed out phosphorus for Japanese. 🤦‍♂️
Phosphorus is derived from Chinese: リン (燐) _rin_

Also:

Bromine should be a  for Japanese - see post #28
Platinum is repeated in your table (last row and third-to-last row) EDIT: Never mind, it's been fixed


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## elroy

AndrasBP said:


> Greek - *φθόριο* (fthório)
> Russian - *фтор* (ftor)


These are interesting because they seem so close to _fluor_, one could be forgiven for thinking they were cognates that had undergone a sound change!  Interestingly enough, Latin _fluor_ ("flow") and Ancient Greek _φθείρω_ ("to ruin," "to destroy") have/had different meanings, but Wiktionary does say that _φθείρω_ ultimately derives from Proto-Indo-European _*dʰgʷʰer-_, which meant *both* "flow" and "perish"!  An interesting etymological web of sorts!


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## elroy

No worries, it's easy to make mistakes with these!  I've updated the table.  Hopefully we can correct any mistakes that still remain!


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## סייבר־שד

Hebrew has a few surprises of its own :

• Hydrogen = *מימן *[mejˈman]
• Carbon = *פחמן *[paχˈman]
• Nitrogen = *חנקן *[χanˈkan]
• Oxygen = *חמצן *[χamˈtsan]
• Sodium = *נתרן *[na'tʁan]
• Silicon = *צורן *[tso'ʁan]
• Phosphorus = *זרחן *[zaʁˈχan]
• Sulphur = *גופרית *[go'fʁit]
• Potassium = *אשלגן *[aʃleˈɡan]
• Calcium = *סידן *[siˈdan]
• Iron = *ברזל *[baʁˈzel]
• Copper = *נחושת *[neˈχoʃet]
• Zinc = *אבץ *[a'vats]
• Silver = *כסף *['kesef]
• Tin = *בדיל *[bdil]
• Gold = *זהב *[za'hav]
• Mercury = *כספית *[kas'pit]
• Lead = *עופרת *[ʔo'feʁet]


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## elroy

elroy said:


> I just realized that I had missed two Arabic ones -- potassium and sodium -- because of an English influence!





סייבר־שד said:


> Sodium = *נתרן *[na'tran]


You fell into the same trap!


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## סייבר־שד

elroy said:


> You fell into the same trap!


And so I did...


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## elroy

...and you missed antimony for the same reason!   I've added it.

So far Chinese is the only language whose word for antimony is based on _stibium_!  And of the other languages Arabic and Russian are the only two with a word that is not a cognate of "antimony"!

And so far "mercury" is the only one for which _not one_ of the languages we've had so far (not even the Romance languages) uses a cognate of (or a word based on) the Latin word!  I wonder if any languages do?


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## elroy

סייבר־שד said:


> Spanish does have *azogue *, but at least here in Mexico I have yet to hear it used by anyone, whereas *mercurio *would readily be understood.


But "azogue" is not a cognate of _hydrargyrum_, is it?


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## Frank78

elroy said:


> The Latin word is _wolframium_, isn’t it?



A German gave the element the Latin name "lupi spuma" (wolf's foam). And later it was translated as "Wolfram" (wolf's soot/dirt).

"Tungsten" is not at all connected to the German and Latin word, it just means heavy stone in Swedish.


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## סייבר־שד

elroy said:


> But "azogue" is not a cognate of _hydrargyrum_, is it?


No, it's certainly not, that one comes from Arabic, if I remember correctly.


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## AquisM

OK, after a bit more research on the subject, it seems to me that the *Chinese* name for *platinum* 鉑 _bó_ is also not cognate with Latin.

The element was (and still is in everyday speech) known as 白金 "white gold" (possibly borrowed from Japanese). When Chinese scholars began to learn all these new elements from the West in the 19th century, it was decided that each element should have a monosyllabic name, so 白金 was replaced with the existing but uncommon character 鉑 (a variant of 箔 _bó_ "metal foil") since 鉑 resembled an orthographic combination of 白金. The fact that the pronunciation of 鉑 kind of sounds similar to the first syllable of platinum is merely a coincidence.


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## Armas

Finnish:
sulfur : rikki 
iron : rauta 
copper : kupari; vaski  dated, and usually means 'bronze'
arsenic : arsenikki
silver : hopea 
tin : tina 
antimony : antimoni 
gold : kulta 
mercury : elohopea 
lead : lyijy 
hydrogen : vety 
carbon : hiili 
nitrogen : typpi 
phosphorus : fosfori
chlorine : kloori
bromine : bromi
fluorine : fluori
silicon : pii 
potassium : kalium
sodium : natrium
tungsten : volframi
zinc : sinkki
calcium : kalsium
platinum : platina
aluminum : alumiini


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## alfaalfa

elroy said:


> @Penyafort and @alfaalfa, I think you missed antimony, potassium, sodium, and tungsten; and alfaalfa, I think you missed mercury. I've added these. Can you confirm?





elroy said:


> I’m interested in whether the names are cognates of the actual words used in Latin


I'm curious about "neon", a Greek word in itself.


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## elroy

alfaalfa said:


> I'm curious about "neon", a Greek word in itself.


What are you curious about?


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## alfaalfa

I don't know the actual word used in Latin. Is it still "neon"?


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## elroy

I think the Latin name is _neon_: 
neon - Wiktionary


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## chamyto

elroy said:


> To be clear, this thread is about all element names, not just the ones you see in the first post.  If your language uses a cognate of the Latin name for a specific element, you don’t need to mention it.  Conversely, please do mention ones that are not cognates and don’t appear in the first post.
> 
> Also, @chamyto, you used  for the opposite of what I used it for, but I’ll figure it out.



Can you please specify?  Regards.


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## elroy

I’m sorry, I tagged the wrong person!   I meant to tag @apmoy70.


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## hui

Armas said:


> arsenic : arsenikki


Maybe over 70 years ago but not any more.

Finnish:
arsenic (As) : _arseeni_
oxygen (O) : _happi_ 

(arsenic trioxide : arsenikki)


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## Penyafort

elroy said:


> @Penyafort and @alfaalfa, I think you missed antimony, potassium, sodium, and tungsten; and alfaalfa, I think you missed mercury.  I've added these.  Can you confirm?


Well, Spanish doesn't have _cognates _as such with Latin, obviously, but derived words, which can be inherited or learnt. The ones you mention may not be Latin in origin, but they've certainly entered Spanish via Latin, either in its Late Medieval or New/Contemporary scientific form, as learnt words. The endings are an evident hint.


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## elroy

Penyafort said:


> Spanish doesn't have _cognates _as such with Latin, obviously, but derived words, which can be inherited or learnt.


Can't they still be called cognates?



Penyafort said:


> The ones you mention may not be Latin in origin, but they've certainly entered Spanish via Latin, either in its Late Medieval or New/Contemporary scientific form, as learnt words. The endings are an evident hint.


What I'm interested in in this thread is which words are not cognates of, based on, or derived from the actual words used in Latin.  I know this is a bit confusing, so I think the symbol trick should help: I'm interested in words that aren't based on or related to or cognates of the words the symbols are based on.


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## Frank78

elroy said:


> Can't they still be called cognates?



I don't think so. Cognates are at least two words which have the same "ancestor" word. Of course "humano" (Spanish) and "humanum" (Latin) don't have the same origin.




elroy said:


> What I'm interested in in this thread is which words are not cognates of, based on, or derived from the actual words used in Latin.  I know this is a bit confusing, so I think the symbol trick should help: I'm interested in words that aren't based on or related to or cognates of the words the symbols are based on.



Only a few elements are actually derived from Latin, "ferrum" is. But the vast majority are modern, made-up Latin words, e.g. "Americium", America was unknown to the Romans.  

And a good 1/3 is Greek.


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## elroy

Right, as I said, I’m not interested in the etymology of the words used in Latin.


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## amikama

סייבר־שד said:


> Silicon = *צורן *[tso'ʁan]


צורן is little used; סיליקון is much more common.

Two more elements whose Hebrew names are rare or never used are:

*חמרן *= aluminium. We say אלומיניום instead.
*זרניך *= arsenic. ארסן is used instead.


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## Włoskipolak 72

elroy said:


> Ah, I see the confusion now!  Like I told @AndrasBP, I'm interested in knowing whether the names are cognates of the actual names used in Latin (on which the symbols are based), even if some of those names are not of Latin origin!
> 
> 
> "wolfram" is a cognate of the name used in Latin: _wolframium_.
> 
> @Penyafort and @alfaalfa, I think you missed antimony, potassium, sodium, and tungsten; and alfaalfa, I think you missed mercury.  I've added these.  Can you confirm?
> 
> @AquisM, I think you missed antimony and tungsten, so I've added them.  Can you confirm?
> 
> @AndrasBP, I think you "missed" antimony, so I've added it.  Can you confirm?  (I put "missed" in quotation marks because I suspect you didn't include it because it does come from Latin even though it's not a cognate of _stibium_.)
> 
> *@Włoskipolak 72, what about hydrogen (wodór), carbon (węgiel), nitrogen (azot), oxygen (tlen), aluminum (glin), silicon (krzem),  and calcium (wapń)? I got these from here, and I've added them.  Can you confirm?*
> 
> This has been a really interesting exercise!  I'm surprised to see that most of the Chinese names are based on the Latin names and that they've all been reduced to one syllable.  I'm also surprised to see that a lot of the Japanese names are based on the Latin names.  I'm also surprised to see some unexpected ones, like bromine in Chinese and platinum in Japanese!


elroy I wasn't good at chemistry ..

*wodór = *(hydrogenium) wodoród , woda (water)+ ród (ancestry)  
*węgiel *= (carbon) inherited from Proto-Slavic **ǫglь*, from Proto-Balto-Slavic **anˀglis*, from Proto-Indo-European **h₁óng*ʷl̥ (“charcoal”).
*azot * = (nitrogen) from French azote
*tlen* = (oxygen) Coined by Jan Oczapowski before 1851, from *tleć, tlić się* (“to smoulder”). Displaced earlier kwasoród.
*wapń =*(calcium) from Lat. calx – *wapno  , * Old Polish  „wapnianem” , ''wapien” i „wapień”.
*krzem =*(silicon), from krzemień (firestone)
*glin* = (alluminium) from Proto - Slavic *glina* (clay) ( Czech. hlina, Rus. глина), which in turn derives from the root Proto Indo European **glei*- meaning something slimy, viscous.

In Polish glina means also policjant (cop, copper)


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## Nanon

> Nitrogen: *«Άζωτο»* [ˈazo̞to̞] (neut.) a modern word (1790) coined by Lavoisier (the international community preferred Chaptal's suɡɡestion, _nitrogène_ which prevailed)



About nitrogen, all depends on what we define as a Latin name. When Rutherford discovered nitrogen, he did not give it a name. Then Lavoisier coined _azote _from Greek ("no life"), a name that is still used in many languages: not only French, but also Italian and Portuguese (_azoto*_), Russian (_азот_), etc... the list is above. Later on, Chaptal coined _nitrogène_, which is now obsolete in French but has entered other languages, among which English.
So for the purpose of this thread, do we consider _azot- _Greek? or Latin (i.e. not exactly Latin, but originated from a Romance language after all)?

*Portuguese uses both _azoto_ and _nitrogénio _(European) / _nitrogênio _(Brazilian), although according to Aulete, _azoto _is dated in Brazil. I suppose that with time, with the amount of scientific literature written in English, and with the importance of the Brazilian variant in the Lusophone world, _nitrogé(ê)nio_ will prevail.


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