# main vs. side



## ThomasK

We have had a thread on "main course", but I would like to know how you render "*main*" versus "*side*" in compounds in your language in general.


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## ThomasK

Dutch: *hoofd*-/ head (_gerecht_/ dish, course, _weg_/road ('way')))
vs. *neven- /*next to (-_effect_)/ *zij *[<zijde]/side (-_straat_/ street)

Combinations: *hoofdzaak *[case, business]/ main point, _*hoofdcommissaris*_/chief constable,
                        vs. *bijzaak*/ minor point, *bijzit *[side-sit]/ maitresse (informal, somewhat derogatory), *bijbaan*/ side job,
                        vs. *nevenproduct*/ side product, _*neven*effect_. (but not as common as "zij-" it seems to me...)
                        vs. _*bij*product, but not *bijeffect_

I found out that _*main *_in English refers to power (_magnus, might_, ...)


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## Frank78

ThomasK said:


> Dutch: *hoofd*-/ head (_gerecht_/ dish, course, _weg_/road ('way')))



Same in German "Haupt-"



ThomasK said:


> vs. *neven- /*next to (-_effect_)/ *zij *[<zijde]/side (-_straat_/ street)



That depends: "Neben-" (next to) as in "Nebenprodukt" (by-product) or "Bei-" (by) as in "Beilage" ("side dish" in the context of dining)


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## ThomasK

ThomasK said:


> I found out that _*main *_in English refers to power (_magnus, might_, ...)


 But of course in some cases English has _*chief*_, as in chef, head again. Maybe _*principal *_can  be mentioned here too perhaps: the first (prime) to be taken (_capere_). But it is not that common, I guess: I find _the principal theme/ players/... _ somewhere...

@Frank78 : do you think there is some *rule for the use of "neben" vs. "bei" *in German? In Dutch you often have a double : both a compound begining with "neven" and one with "bij"; But I think "bij" is more common...

The funny thing: _*neveneffect*_, NOT bijeffect, _*bijwerking*_, NOT nevenwerking (werking =  effect, +/-).. I added the prefix _bij_ in #2...


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## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh

Prif *(< Lat. 'primus') *gwrs *(< Eng. 'course'). A rare example of an adj. coming *before* the noun, thus causing _Treiglad Meddal/_Soft Mutation to the noun. *'Main course'/Main dish' *(Equiv. of *'plat principal'* in Fr.).

*Plât *(Eng. 'plate' or maybe Old Fr.) *ochr *(< Celtic < PIE *okri- 'sharp') *'Side plate'.

Welsh* also uses *is- (*'below') and *'sgil-'* ('in the wake of ...') to indicate secondary, side matters. For example, *isgynnyrch *'by-product' and *sgil-effeithiau* 'side-effects'.


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## apmoy70

In Greek _main course_ is *«κύριο πιάτο»* [ˈci.ɾi.ɔ ˈpça.tɔ]. Τhe adjective is the neuter form of *«κύριος»* [ˈci.ɾi.ɔs] --> _lord, mr, possessor, epithet of God_ as an adjective _ruling, main, decisive_ < Classical *«κύριος» kū́riŏs* --> _lord, ruler, possessor_ as an adjective _rulinɡ, decisive, valid, main_ (PIE *ḱeu̯h₁- _to swell, be stronɡ_ cf Skt. शूर (śūra), Av. sūra-, _hero_, OIrish caur > Ir. curadh, _warrior, hero_, W. cawr, _ɡiant_).
Also *«κύριος δρόμος»* [ˈci.ɾi.ɔs ˈðrɔ.mɔs] --> _main road_ («δρόμος» < Classical masc. noun *«δρόμος» drómŏs*).

In compounds, _main_ is rendered with the usage of the prefixes *«πρωτο-»* [prɔ.tɔ-] or *«αρχι-»* [ar.çi-] as first element.
-Prefix *«πρωτο-»* [prɔ.tɔ-] is the oblique of the ordinal *«πρώτος»* [ˈprɔ.tɔs] --> _first, earliest, foremost_ in mathematics _prime_ < Classical ordinal *«πρῶτος» prôtŏs*. Eg:
*«Πρωτοπαλλήκαρο»* [prɔ.tɔ.paˈli.ka.ɾɔ] (neut.) --> _the first officer after the warlord durinɡ the Greek War of Independence (1821-1829), (20th c.) a trusted attendant, henchman_ < prefix *«πρωτο-»* + Byz. Gr. neut. *«παλληκάρι(ο)ν» pallēkári(o)n* --> _braveheart_, neuter diminutive of Classical 3rd decl. masc. noun *«πάλλαξ pắllaks* (nom. sinɡ.), *«πάλλακος» pắllakŏs* (ɡen. sinɡ.) --> _younɡ man, youth_ < Classical fem. noun *«παλλακή» păllakḗ*.

*«Πρωτομάστορας»* [prɔ.tɔˈma.stɔ.ɾas] --> _foreman, master builder, master craftsman_ < prefix *«πρωτο-»* + Byz. Gr. *«μάστορας» mástoras* (masc.), earliest form *«μαΐστωρ» maḯstōr* (3rd declension nom. sinɡ.), *«μαΐστορος» maḯstoros* (ɡen. sinɡ.) < Koine Greek *«μαγίστωρ» măɡístōr* or *«μάγιστρος» mắɡistrŏs* --> _official_ < Lat. *maɡister*.

-Prefix *«αρχι-»* [ar.çi-] comes form the v. *«άρχω»* [ˈar.xɔ] --> _to lead, rule, exercise power, ɡovern_ < Classical v. *«ἄρχω» ắrkʰō* --> _to be the first, beɡin, rule_, from a possible IE root *h₂r-ske/o- _to start, rule_ with possible coɡnate the Arm. արքայ (arkʿay), _kinɡ, monarch_. Eg:

*«Αρχιγραμματέας»* [ar.çi.ɣra.maˈte.as] (masc. & fem.) --> _chancellor, chief secretary_ < prefix *«αρχι-»* + Classical 3rd declension masc. *«γραμματεύς» ɡrămmateú̯s* (nom. sinɡ.), *«γραμματέως» ɡrămmatéōs* (ɡen. sinɡ.) --> _writer, secretary_ < Classical v. *«γράφω» ɡrắpʰō*

*«Αρχιλοχίας»* [ar.çi.lɔˈçi.as] (masc. & fem.) --> _master sergeant (OR-8)_ < prefix *«αρχι-»* + ΜοGr *«λοχίας»* [lɔˈxi.as], constructed in 1833 to render the rank of serɡeant/serɡent in the newly established Hellenic Army < Classical masc. *«λόχος» lókʰŏs* --> _ambuscade, a body of men for ambush, armed band, company_ < Classical deponent v. *«λέχομαι» lékʰŏmai̯*

Ι'll continue in a couple of days with a post for the render of _side_ in compounds


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## ThomasK

Welsh_Sion said:


> *Plât *(Eng. 'plate' or maybe Old Fr.) *ochr *(< Celtic < PIE *okri- 'sharp') *'Side plate'.*


 Could you comment on how 'sharp' could develop into 'main'. Something like "strong"?

@apmoy70 : excellent information again. I recognize semantic links with chief /kurio/ and /archi/ and first /proto/


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## Welsh_Sion

Oops - We're at different sides of the telescope, @ThomasK !

*Prif gwrs *= Main course
*Plât ochr* = Side plate

I probably didn't explain clearly enough. _Mea culpa!_


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## ThomasK

Sorry, my mistake! But can you somehow semantically associate "side/ minor/..." with "sharp"? Thin perhaps?


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## Welsh_Sion

Thought I'd done so:

*ochr* 'side' < Celtic < PIE *okri- 'sharp.

See Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru )GPC)

Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru


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## ThomasK

ThomasK said:


> Prefix *«αρχι-»* [ar.çi-] comes form the v. *«άρχω»* [ˈar.xɔ] --> _to lead, rule, exercise power, ɡovern_ < Classical v. *«ἄρχω» ắrkʰō* --> _to be the first, beɡin, rule_, from a possible IE root *h₂r-ske/o- _to start, rule_ with possible coɡnate the Arm. արքայ (arkʿay), _kinɡ, monarch_.



I suddenly thought of something: in Dutch we have this suffix too in two ways...

- *aarts*, as in English _*arch- before N*_: for indeed, the highest --- or maybe the main:
the _aartsbisschop_, the archbishop (often in religious contexts, I think), but also aartsrival, archrival literally, but even aartsschurk, archrogue/ arch scoundrel
- *aarts *or until some time ago in my dialect *archi(e*)-  *with ADJ*ectives, turning into a superlative:
_aartslui_, (extremely lazy), _archislecht _(the only in standardlanguage), "_arch_-bad", very bad, maybe archi-lui, very lazy, but  certainly (very uncommon now)

However, in both cases but especially in the first, _arch(i) _does mean "main", but there is never a _side_-, a _by_- around, I think. No one would think of a bishop as a "side-bishop" ;-) of the archbishop. No, arch- simply refers to his (her) supreme status... I think this is _plain vs. super or hyper-._.. But I'll turn that into a separate thread...


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## Awwal12

No compound elements with that semantic in Russian.
"Main" is, essentially, "head" ("glávnyi"; cf. "glavá" - poet./elev. "head", from Ch. Sl.; "golová" - "head").
"Side" is ~"to the side (of a body)", adj. "pobóchnyi" (from "bók" - a side, normally of a body; cf. "storoná" - a side in general).


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## apmoy70

In Greek _side_ in compounds is defined with the usage of the prefix *«παρα-»* [paˈɾa-] as first element.
-Prefix *«παρα-»* < Classical preposition *«παρά» părắ*, eg:
*«Παράδρομος»* [paˈɾa.ðrɔ.mɔs] (masc.) --> _sideway, byway, byroad_.


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## Welsh_Sion

*English prefixes:*

mega-, arch- (/a:ts/), hyper-, super-

*Welsh prefixes:*

arch- /arX-), en-, prif-

We are going towards, 'main/principal/chief'  >>> 'large(r)', now


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## ThomasK

Welsh_Sion said:


> *English prefixes:*
> mega-, arch- (/a:ts/), hyper-, super-
> 
> *Welsh prefixes:*
> arch- /arX-), en-, prif-


 It does look as if we mainly use prefixes to renner this distinction, which are of course often grammaticalised words ('hoofd'/ head in Dutch has turned into some kind of  prefix; we no longer think of heads...). But do we always? 



Welsh_Sion said:


> We are going towards, 'main/principal/chief'  >>> 'large(r)', now


 Could you illustrate that?


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## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh

ysgol *'school'  > *prifysgol *'main/chief/primary (!) school' = 'university'
*athrawes* 'female teacher'* > prifathrawes* = 'headmistress'

*derwydd *'druid' > *archdderwydd *= 'archdruid'
*angel *'angel' >* archangel *= 'archangel'
*marchnad* 'market' > *archfarchnad* = 'supermarket' (A 20th century neologism)

*mawr* (adj.) 'big' > *enfawr* 'enormous'
*pyd* (n.) 'danger' > *enbyd, enbydus* 'dangerous'


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## ThomasK

INteresting to note that you consider it *a main or chief school*. We call it the *base/ basi*_s_, even the "lower" (lagere) school. But indeed, it is *école primair*e in French. I had always understood that as the first level, followed by the second/secondary  level...  But indeed _hoofdonderwijzer_/ headmaster... 



Welsh_Sion said:


> *mawr* (adj.) 'big' > *enfawr* 'enormous'
> *pyd* (n.) 'danger' > *enbyd, enbydus* 'dangerous'


 However, I do not think that we can "intensify"/ strengthen an adjective using a prefix. Or no, we can, but then it is not something like main, ore like mega, kei (kiterally pebble)... In Dutch that would be a side track, or does that -en mean "main"in Welsh?


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish;

head* = głowa *
main* =  główny *(masc.) *,główna,  główną  * ( fem.) *, główne *& *główni *(plural) * , głównie *(mainly)* ,*
primarily * = głównie, przede wszystkim, zasadniczo 
głównego , głównej , głównych , głównymi ,  głównych ,  głównego  *(variety by cases)

main course  = danie *główne*
main , overriding = *nadrzędny , nadrzędna , nadrzędne  *etc..
main category =  *główna, nadrzędna *kategoria

chief =  *główny, naczelny*
chief executive  = *przewodniczący *zarządu firmy,* dyrektor* generalny

major = *główny,* *ważny, znaczny, podstawowy*

supreme =  *najwyższy* (o władzy) authority, *największa* (np. ofiara) victim , *naczelny* (np. wódz) chief
prime =* zasadniczy, pierwszy, najważniejszy, najlepszy* , *świetny* 
leading = * czołowy, wybitny  *

primary* = podstawowy , pierwotny,  początkowy, elementarny *
primary purpose * = podstawowy cel *
primary product*  = produkt pierwotny*
primary education * = elementarna edukacja  *

side* = strona ,  część  , bok *
side (adjective) *= poboczny , z boku*
side-on* = boczny *


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## ThomasK

This is imrpessive, thanks! Now, some questions if I may: 

- could you comment on the etymology of some *non-/glowa/*words in series 1?I use Google, but the translations are main, main, main, or primarily  Something like head, or ...? 
- For the primarily words I get things like "everyone" and "actually", which I would not associate with "main" spontaneously
- you can use all of those in compounds, can't you? 
- victim and supreme? 
- *primary *is a tough one; I think it does not refer to "main" in all cases (like primary/ elementary school) ; some words seem to refer to first rather, no? 
- side: Google translates *część *as part. Correct? Siide and part are related semantically, but still - are they the same in compounds

Could you perhaps add some more examples where words are interchangeable?I know I am asking a lot, but feel free!


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## Welsh_Sion

I think you misunderstood me, @ThomasK.

I put the (!) in brackets to indicate the surprising thing that our word for English* 'university'* amounts to 'chief/1st school' - 'primary' _in this sense _and not in the sense of '*école primair*e'. (That is quite different, of course: *'ysgol gynradd'*. You will see however that *école/school/ysgol *are of course essentially the 'same' word as indeed are *'prif/primary/ primair*e').

*En-* (and its brother* an-*) is essentially a limited prefix 'making something bigger', but is really only in the contexts I mentioned. I would like to think the English borrowed it from us and created *en-ormous* from the form, **ormous* (meaning *'big'*). Sadly, I don't think they did .


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## ThomasK

Oh yes, too quick again (too fast?), I notice that now. How interesting!

The _*en*_- in _enormous _is more  like *e*(-norm-ous), I am afraid: "out of the norm/average". For a second I also thought of the Italian infix/uffix -one; padre > padrone, master, viola > violone, double bass... I do not see any parallel for this -en in my language, but I wondered: can you associate anything with it etymologically?


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## Włoskipolak 72

ThomasK said:


> This is imrpessive, thanks! Now, some questions if I may:
> 
> - could you comment on the etymology of some *non-/glowa/*words in series 1?I use Google, but the translations are main, main, main, or primarily  Something like head, or ...?
> - For the primarily words I get things like "everyone" and "actually", which I would not associate with "main" spontaneously
> - you can use all of those in compounds, can't you?
> - victim and supreme?
> - *primary *is a tough one; I think it does not refer to "main" in all cases (like primary/ elementary school) ; some words seem to refer to first rather, no?
> - side: Google translates *część *as part. Correct? Siide and part are related semantically, but still - are they the same in compounds
> 
> Could you perhaps add some more examples where words are interchangeable?I know I am asking a lot, but feel free!



Nadrzędny = nad (over)+ rząd

*rząd. in English*

government
administration
row
file
rank
tier
cabinet
line
order
Czołowy = czoło = front
Naczelny = na (on) + czoło
Koronny = korona = crown
Sztandarowy = flagship
Kluczowy = Klucz = key
Przewodni = guding , leading

Synonyms;( nadrzędny )

Pierwszorzędny
Naczelny
Czołowy
Koronny
Sztandarowy
Konstytutywny, najważniejszy
Wiodący
Najważniejszy
centralny, najistotniejszy
Przewodni
Najważniejszy, podstawowy
Kardynalny
decydujący, rozstrzygający
Koronny, najważniejszy
Najistotniejszy
kierowniczy, zwierzchni, przełożony
priorytetowy, główny
Strategiczny
Kluczowy
Główny
sztandarowy, fundamentalny.


*nadrzędny" in English*
imperative
overarching
over-riding
overriding
paramount
overarching
superior
master
parent
superordinate
supraspecific



primary* = podstawowy , pierwotny, początkowy

podstawa = base , basis
pierwotny= original , aboriginal, earthy
 początkowy = initial , original *


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## ThomasK

Nadrzędny = nad (over)+ rząd
Czołowy = czoło = front
Naczelny = na (on) + czoło
Koronny = korona = crown
Sztandarowy = flagship
Kluczowy = Klucz = key
Przewodni = guiding , leading 

Very interesting metaphors (...) for main: 
- crown (_*kroon*getuigen _in NL, *key* witnesses), key (_*sleutel*begrippen_, key concepts), leading (*leidende *_ambtenaren_, the executive officials), front 
- flag/ flagship (I do not see a parallel in Dutch, but flagship store, I believe, in English

I suddenly thought of our _*opper*_- (think of up), but that is rendered by _*superior *_in English (super-).


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