# λέω - απαντώ - ρωτώ



## larshgf

Hello,

Consider these 3 verbs: λέω - απαντώ - ρωτώ

λέω and απαντώ can be used with
- either the preposition σε + a strong personal pronomen (λέω σ΄εμέμα etc) OR
- with the weak personal pronomen in genitive (μου απαντά το ερώτηση)

while ρωτώ is used with a weak personal pronomen in the accusative as a direct object (την ρωτώ etc)

What is the grammatically explanation of this?
Can you recommend a website or dictionary where I can read about these characteristics of the greek verbs.

Best Regards
Lars


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## jcot05

Hi, 

I think it's a matter whether the pronoun is a direct (--> accusative) or indirect object (--> σε + accusative or genitive).
To put it in another way, whether the verb accepts a direct object only (ie transitive) or both direct and indirect objects (bitransitive):

To say something [direct] to somebody [indirect] - Λέω κάτι [acc] σε κάποιον [σε+acc] / Λέω κάποιου [gen] κάτι [acc]
To answer something to somebody - Απαντάω κάτι σε κάποιον / Απαντάω κάποιου κάτι

To question/interrogate somebody [direct] - Ρωτάω κάποιον [acc]

Maybe a native speaker will have a better explanation though, not sure this one always holds...


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## larshgf

Thank you for your answer. 

I would like to explore this verbal issue: intransitive - transitive - bitransitive more deeply if possible.

I guess it is the "nature" of the verb that decide whether it is bitransitive or not.
It would be nice with a dictionary or website, where the verbs are described more intensively than the bare inflection.

transitive = μεταβατικός 
intransitive = αμετάβατος
bitransitive = ? (a Greek term would make a google search possible….)

BR Lars


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## Perseas

larshgf said:


> while ρωτώ is used with a weak personal pronomen in the accusative as a direct object (την ρωτώ etc)


"Ρωτώ" is also used with the strong personal pronoun in the accusative as a direct object: _ρωτώ εσένα/ρωτώ αυτήν_.



larshgf said:


> What is the grammatically explanation of this?
> Can you recommend a website or dictionary where I can read about these characteristics of the greek verbs.


So, why is it "Λέω *σε κάποιον* κάτι" but "Ρωτώ *κάποιον* κάτι" , and "*Του* λέω κάτι" but "*Τον* ρωτώ κάτι"?

I don't think there's a rule in Greek grammar about that, but as a rule of thumb you can remember that there are 3 more verbs with same construction as "ρωτώ/ρωτάω":_ διδάσκω_, _κερνάω_, _μαθαίνω.
Ρωτώ ή Ρωτάω τον μαθητή κάτι/Τον ρωτώ ή ρωτάω κάτι.
Διδάσκω την κόρη μου ιστορία/ Την διδάσκω ιστορία.
Κερνάω τους φίλους μου καφέ/Τους κερνάω καφέ.
Μαθαίνω τον Αχιλλέα ποδόσφαιρο/Τον μαθαίνω ποδόσφαιρο._
("Μαθαίνω & διδάσκω" have also the construction "Μαθαίνω σε κάποιον/διδάσκω σε κάποιον" or "του μαθαίνω/του διδάσκω")


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## dmtrs

larshgf said:


> bitransitive = ? (a Greek term would make a google search possible….)



I guess this means δίπτωτο (ρήμα) - the verb that has two different objects like _say something to someone_.




larshgf said:


> What is the grammatically explanation of this?



The explanation I can suggest lies in ancient Greek and the changes involved in shaping modern Greek.

For example, the verb _λέω _was _λέγω _in ancient Greek and its syntax was _λέγω τινί τι_ (_λέω σε κάποιον κάτι_) where _τινί_ is in dative and _τι_ in accusative -the latter is the direct object.
When dative was dropped _τινί _had to be replaced either with a genitive or with an accusative.
In most of Greece (and this is considered 'standard' language) genitive prevailed (_του_ λέω κάτι); in northern Greece though, people use the accusative (_τον_ λέω κάτι) -it's not considered 'standard' language, nevertheless it's used in a vast area.

The verb _ρωτώ _was _ερωτώ _in ancient Greek and its syntax was _ερωτώ τινά τι_ (_ρωτώ κάποιον κάτι_) where both _τινά_ and _τι_ are in accusative -the former is the direct object.
The fact that no dative is involved meant that there was no need for a change in clause in modern Greek, therefore _τον ρωτώ κάτι_ was the obvious syntax.

Many things in modern Greek cannot be explained without the help of the ancient form of the language.


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## larshgf

Thank you for your answers! 
Wonder if anybody knows a greek-english dictionary (book or online) with morphological and synthactical informartion besides the obligatory semanthics?


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## Helleno File

Hi Larsgh

I use the Oxford Greek-English Learners Dictionary  by Σταυρόπουλος which I think many have found helpful.  It's a very comprehensive dictionary with over 1000 pages with a huge number of examples, many of them colloquial.  Every noun, adjective and verb is linked to a large number of tables at the back which show the conjugation or declension. Irregular verbs are often illustrated in the examples. There is so much detail it's a bit frightening at first!

You probably also need a grammar to cover some of the points in this thread as well as everything else.  The Essential Greek Grammar by David Holton et al is a model of concision and ease of use. I've used mine so much it has fallen apart!

I've also learnt to use more than one dictionary for Greek and particularly WR to check synonyms and levels of formality of the language.

Καλή επιτυχία!


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## larshgf

Ευχαριστώ πολυ!

In fact I have the dictionary and the grammar you mentioned. The Oxford Dctionary is very good with semantics and inflection (reffered to by numbers). You might conclude the morphology and syntax by the many fine examples, but what I am looking for is a dictionary that show the user if a verb is transitive, bitransitive or intransitive. But maybe it does not exist.

Allthough I found on the ILSP website a language resource they call "Computional morphological and syntactic lexicon of Modern Greek". I have send to ILSP a message asking how to get this resource. I will inform the result to this forum.


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## Helleno File

I'm glad you have both the books! Σταυρόπουλος does show if a verb is transitive (vt) or intransitive (vi) or both (vti) e.g. ξυπνάω or by giving first transitive and then intransitive e.g. πηγαίνω. 

I'm not sure bi-transitive (or even bitransitive) is accepted terminology - it should be!  The examples in the dictionary do clearly show it with (ε)ροτάω and κερνάω. (Annoyingly Σταυρόπουλος lists ροτάω under (ε)ροτάω the older form.) I have to admit I hadn't noticed κερνάω is bi-transitive until Perseas mentioned it here. Possibly because, sadly, I've never heard it used!


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## Perseas

larshgf said:


> what I am looking for is a dictionary that show the user if a verb is transitive, bitransitive or intransitive. But maybe it does not exist.


I don't know if such a dictionary, with that specialised information, exists. If I find something, I'll inform.

I am sure that you know of this online dictionary of Standard Modern Greek: Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής
It may not use the terms "μεταβατικό" or "αμετάβατο" etc., but it gives many examples, which are informative about how verbs are used. In my opinion, learning how verbs are used through examples is maybe better.
_
_For example, *the verb "ρωτώ" as "μεταβατικό δίπτωτο" takes an accusative of person and an accusative of thing*:
a) _Ρωτώ κάποιον κάτι. _["κάποιον" is object(1) and "κάτι" is object(2)],
b)_ Με ρώτησε την ώρα._

*but this verb can also be constructed -again as "μεταβατικό δίπτωτο"- like that:*
c) _Tον ρώτησα πώς βλέπει την κατάσταση._ ["Tον" (accusative of person) is object(1) and "πώς βλέπει την κατάσταση" (dependent interrogative clause is object(2)].
*That syntax (ρωτώ + acc. of person + dependent interrogative clause) is very common*.
Another similar example: d)_ Tον ρώτησε από πού κατάγεται.
_
*But "ρωτώ" may also have this syntax: Ρωτώ κάποιον για κάτι* _--> _e)_Τον ρώτησα για τις αιτίες.
_
(All the examples are from this online dictionary)
_

_


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## larshgf

Helleno File said:


> Σταυρόπουλος does show if a verb is transitive (vt) or intransitive (vi) or both (vti) e.g. ξυπνάω or by giving first transitive and then intransitive e.g. πηγαίνω.


- yes you are right. I must admit that I have not used the Oxford dictionary so much but it is absolutely worth a closer look!


Perseas said:


> I am sure that you know of this online dictionary of Standard Modern Greek: Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής


- yes I know this online dictionary. It is a little overwhelming because it is all in greek language. But I seems to have a lot of examples.

And after all examples learn you to talk the language. Sometimes I am going down a blind alley with too much grammatical theory and in the end I dont remember the details anyway.
Thank you for directing me to the right learning track again!


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## ioanell

larshgf said:


> bitransitive = ? (a Greek term would make a google search possible….)



The correct English term, I think, is "ditransitive". The equivalent Greek term used for verbs taking two objects (direct and indirect) is "(μεταβατικό) δίπτωτο", that is "(transitive [with]) double-case or two cases".


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## Helleno File

larshgf said:


> And after all examples learn you to talk the language. Sometimes I am going down a blind alley with too much grammatical theory and in the end I dont remember the details anyway.


I know that feeling! I've been guilty of swallowing chunks of grammar too quickly and then moving on to more without really learning it. It comes from strong motivation but I am realising eventually that learning Greek needs care and patience. An appropriate metaphor we use in English: it's a marathon, not a sprint.


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## Perseas

larshgf said:


> what I am looking for is a dictionary that show the user if a verb is transitive, bitransitive or intransitive. But maybe it does not exist.


There is a very good online dictionary, which has the information you need, but you need first to start an online subscription.
Here: Μεγάλο Ηλεκτρονικό Λεξικό Νεοελληνικής Γλώσσας (ΜΗΛΝΕΓ)-ΠΑΤΑΚΗ
Now they offer a six-month free subscription. It's monolingual Greek.

For the verb "ρωτάω" e.g., it gives the meaning, tenses forms and this information about its syntax, as well:

*ΜΤΒ* (+αιτ. ή +αιτ.προσ. και αιτ.πράγμ. ή +αιτ.προσ. και πλάγ.ερ.πρ. ή +αιτ.προσ. και πρόθ. _για_ {+αιτ.})

<<MTB = μεταβατικό=transitive
αιτ. = αιτιατική = accusative
προσ. = προσώπου = of person>>

And then there are many examples. Some of them are:

_ρωτώ ευγενικά/ επίμονα/ αδιάφορα_ |
_«Και τι θα κάνεις τώρα;» με ρώτησε_
_Τι σε ρώτησε;_
_Ρώτησα τη διεύθυνσή του_
_Ρώτησε αν θα μείνουμε πολύ_
_..............

_


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## Helleno File

Thanks Perseas for the link to the online Patakis dictionary.  On a brief investigation only it seems excellent. 

I've thought of of another di/bi-transitive construction: βγάζω φωτογραφία κάποιον = take someone's photo/picture. Does φωτογφαφία always stay next to the verb or can it follow the thing photographed?


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## larshgf

Perseas said:


> There is a very good online dictionary, which has the information you need, but you need first to start an online subscription.
> Here: Μεγάλο Ηλεκτρονικό Λεξικό Νεοελληνικής Γλώσσας (ΜΗΛΝΕ


Thank you Perseas! Just what I was looking for. I will have a closer look!


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## dmtrs

Helleno File said:


> βγάζω φωτογραφία κάποιον = take someone's photo/picture. Does φωτογφαφία always stay next to the verb or can it follow the thing photographed?



You can say _βγάζω φωτογραφία κάποιον/κάτι_ or _βγάζω κάποιον/κάτι φωτογραφία._ It's the same meaning and equally common.


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## Helleno File

Thanks dmtrs, 

Good ol' flexible word order in Greek again.


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