# Fixed (...), not loose



## ThomasK

I'd be interested in your translation of "[It is] *fixed*, not loose" (not in the meaning of 'repaired'). I am also in derivations based on that root. (BTW: is there some other word in English ?) 

Dutch: *vast  
 -* vesting: fortification
 - vestiging : settlement 
 - bevestiging : confirmation

English: attached ??? 

Swedish: *fast*, I believe...


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## Anja.Ann

Hi, ThomasK  

In Italian: 

- fixed = 1) fisso (adjective) or 2) fissato (adjective and p.p.)

I.e., depending on the context:

1) *Fixed* stars: Stelle *fisse*
2) The bar *is fixed *onto the lever: La barra *è fissata *sulla leva

*Fisso *from Latin _fīxus_, p.p. of _figĕre_ «figgere» (to immobilize, to fix)
- fissa: fixation (obsession, mania)
- crocifissione: crucifixion
- prefisso: prefix


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## bazq

Hebrew uses the root ק-ב-ע q-b-' (pronounced k-b-a these days) which is related to permanence, setting (to set something).

kvi'a - "a setting" (of an alarm clock etc.), "a ruling" (of a judge).
kavu'a - "fixed" (adj.), "permanent" (adj.), "a constant" (noun. constants in math,physics etc.).
kiba'on - "a fixation/obsession".
keva - the period in which a soldier stays in the army after he finishes his obligatory service.
kvi'ut - tenure (of doctors, professors...)
lekabe'a - "to fix/stabilize" (make something stop moving or being loose).
likbo'a - "to decide/dictate/to rule (judge)/to set up something (a meeting).

I think it's an Aramaic root, but I'm not sure.


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## arielipi

bazq said:


> Hebrew uses the root ק-ב-ע q-b-' (pronounced k-b-a these days) which is related to permanence, setting (to set something).


Nicely done, though I'd add it is also related to state(s/ment)


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## apmoy70

In Greek depending of context, to fix, fixed can be translated as:

(1) *«Ορίζω»* [o'rizo] --> _to bound, define, determine_ (v. *«καθορίζω»* [kaθo'rizo] --> _to mark out by boundaries_) < Classical v. *«ὁρίζω» hŏrízō* (possible PIE root *ueru-/*uoru-, _to draw_ cf Lat. urvāre, _to mark out a boundary with a furrow_).
Fixed: Participle *«ορισμένος, -μένη, -μένο»* [ori'zmenos] (masc.), [ori'zmeni] (fem.), [ori'zmeno] (neut.) < Classical perf. tense mediopassive participle *«ὡρισμένος, -μένη, -μένον» hōrĭsménŏs (masc.), hōrĭsménē (fem.), hōrĭsménŏn (neut.)*.
Derivations:
*«Ορισμένη* (or *«καθορισμένη»*) *τιμή»* [ori'zmeni] or [kaθori'zmeni ti'mi] (both fem.) --> _fixed price_
*«Ορισμένο κόστος»* [ori'zmeno 'kostos] (both neut.) --> _fixed cost_
*«Ορισμένο εισόδημα»* [ori'zmeno i'soðima] (both neut.) --> _fixed income_ 

(2) *«Ετοιμάζω»* [eti'mazo] --> _to fix, prepare_ < Classical v. *«ἑτοιμάζω» hĕtoimázō* --> _to prepare, make oneself ready_ (with obsure etymology).
Fixed: Adj. *«έτοιμος, -μη, -μο»* ['etimos] (masc.), ['etimi] (fem.), ['etimo] (neut.) < Classical adj. *«ἑτοῖμος, -τοίμη, -τοῖμον» hĕtoîmŏs (masc.), hĕtoímē (fem.), hĕtoîmŏn (neut.)* --> _ ready, active, zealous_.
Derivations:
*«Έτοιμο γεύμα»* ['etimo 'ʝevma] (both neut.) --> _fixed price meal, set meal_

(3) *«Στερεώνω»* [stere'ono] --> _to fasten, brace, peg out, make firm, fix < _Classical v. *«στερεόω/στερεῶ» stĕrĕóō (uncontracted)/ stĕrĕô (contracted)*_ --> to make firm _or_ solid _(possibly from PIE *ster-,_ stiff, fixed _cf Skt. स्थिर (sthira),_ fixed, firm; _Proto-Germanic *star-,_ to be rigid _> Ger. starren, Dt. staren, Eng. stare)._
Fixed: _Adj. *«στερεός, -ρεή* (learned, *«στερεά»*),* - ρεό»* [stere'os] (masc.), [stere'i] & [stere'a] (fem.), [stere'o] (neut.) < Classical adj.*«στερεός (Αttic «στεῤῥός»), στερεὰ, στερεόν» stĕrĕós & stĕrrhós (masc.), stĕrĕà (fem.), stĕrĕón (neut.)*._
Derivations:
_*«Στερέωση»* [ste're.osi] (fem.)_ --> fixation _(lit_. the act of fixing_)
*«Στερέωμα»* [ste're.oma] (neut.) --> _the firmament_ (lit. _that which is fixed)_




ThomasK said:


> I'd be interested in your translation of "[It is] *fixed*, not loose" (not in the meaning of 'repaired'). I am also in derivations based on that root. (BTW: is there some other word in English ?)
> ...



 The exact antonym of «λύνω» (to loose, loosen) is,

*«Δένω»* ['ðeno] --> _to bind, tie, fasten_ < Classical v. *«δέω/δῶ» déō (uncontracted)/ dô (contracted)* --> _to bind, keep in bonds, enchain, tie_ (PIE *deh₁-, _to bind_ cf Skt.  द्यति (dyati), _to bind_; possibly Hit. tiia).


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## ThomasK

bazq said:


> Hebrew uses the root ק-ב-ע q-b-' (pronounced k-b-a these days) which is related to permanence, setting (to set something).
> 
> kvi'a - "a setting" (of an alarm clock etc.), "a ruling" (of a judge).
> kavu'a - "fixed" (adj.), "permanent" (adj.), "a constant" (noun. constants in math,physics etc.).
> kiba'on - "a fixation/obsession".
> keva - the period in which a soldier stays in the army after he finishes his obligatory service.
> kvi'ut - tenure (of doctors, professors...)
> lekabe'a - "to fix/stabilize" (make something stop moving or being loose).
> likbo'a - "to decide/dictate/to rule (judge)/to set up something (a meeting).
> 
> I think it's an Aramaic root, but I'm not sure.


Could the Arabic K_aaba h_ave to do with that in Mecca ?


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## ThomasK

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek depending of context, to fix, fixed can be translated as:
> 
> (1) *«Ορίζω»* [o'rizo] --> _to bound, define, determine_ (v. *«καθορίζω»* [kaθo'rizo] --> _to mark out by boundaries_) < Classical v. *«ὁρίζω» hŏrízō* (possible PIE root *ueru-/*uoru-, _to draw_ cf Lat. urvāre, _to mark out a boundary with a furrow_).
> 
> (2) *«Ετοιμάζω»* [eti'mazo] --> _to fix, prepare_
> 
> (3) *«Στερεώνω»* [stere'ono] --> _to fasten, brace, peg out, make firm, fix
> __Derivations:
> _*«Στερέωση»* [ste're.osi] (fem.)_ --> fixation _(lit_. the act of fixing_)
> *«Στερέωμα»* [ste're.oma] (neut.) --> _the firmament_ (lit. _that which is fixed)_
> 
> The exact antonym of «λύνω» (to loose, loosen) is,
> 
> *«Δένω»* ['ðeno] --> _to bind, tie, fasten_ < Classical v. *«δέω/δῶ» déō (uncontracted)/ dô (contracted)* --> _to bind, keep in bonds, enchain, tie_ (PIE *deh₁-, _to bind_ cf Skt.  द्यति (dyati), _to bind_; possibly Hit. tiia).


I wondered whether any of those have given rise to internationally known 'cultural' words... I thought of of 'sterile' (3), stars (???), but I cannot come up with any serious idea as for the others, whereas I'd guess they have had their impact on our scientific, cultural or everyday life...


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## sakvaka

The idea of being _fixed _is expressed in *Finnish* with the root _kiint-_ whereas _loose_ is expressed with the root _irta-_.

Words based on the root and some possible uses of them:

*kiint-*
_kiinteä_ stationary, fixed; solid; firm
_kiinto_- eg. _kiintotähti _fixed star _kiintopiste_ (_maths_) fixed point
_kiinnittää _tie, fasten; mortgage (a house)
_kiinnitys_- eg. _kiinnityspiste _(_physics_) point of attachment
_kiinne_- eg. _kiinnekohta _attachment, point of reference
_kiintynyt _attached to (emotionally)
_kiinteistö _real estate
_kiintiö _quota
_kiinni _(opposite of "open") shut, closed; (opposite of "loose") fastened...

*irta-*
_irto_- eg. _irtolehti _loose page _irtokivi _loose rock, _irtokarkki _separately-bought candy
_irti _(adverb) loose
_irrallinen _(adjective) loose
_irrottaa _detach, separate
_irtain _(adjective) loose, eg. _irtain maa-aines_ loose soil


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## learnerr

ThomasK said:


> I'd be interested in your translation of "[It is] *fixed*, not loose" (not in the meaning of 'repaired').


In Russian, the word depends on the way in which the object was fixed, either really or in metaphorical interpretation. So, no single answer, these words are too many.


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

kurmak : to fix, to establish, to install, to set up, to found, to constitute, to cock (a tent), ...
kurulmak: to be founded, to be set up, to set oneself comfortably
kurul: council, committee, ...
kurulu: stationary, established, steady, sedentary,...

bağlı: tied, fixed, not loose
pek: sturdy, very .., 
sağlam: sturdy, durable, solid
kapa: to cover, to close, to settle, to become sedentary, to fix oneself, ...
sabit (from Arabic): fixed, not moving.
sıkı: not loose, tight, firm, compact.


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## ahmedcowon

ThomasK said:


> Could the Arabic K_aaba h_ave to do with that in Mecca ?



No, the word Kaaba (Kaعba) in Arabic is derived from the root "k-ع-b" (to cube)

The letter Ayn (ع) has no phonetic equivalent in Latin script and is omitted altogether in loanwords (When transliterating Arabic into Latin, we use the numerical 3 to represent ع)

In modern Hebrew, Ayin (ע) is pronounced as a glottal stop.

In Arabic also, *qof* and *kaf* are two different sounds, while in Hebrew there is no distinction between them.


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## ThomasK

sakvaka said:


> The idea of being _fixed _is expressed in *Finnish* with the root _kiint-_ whereas _loose_ is expressed with the root _irta-_.
> 
> Words based on the root and some possible uses of them:
> 
> *kiint-*
> _kiinteä_ stationary, fixed; solid; firm
> _kiinto_- eg. _kiintotähti _fixed star _kiintopiste_ (_maths_) fixed point
> _kiinnittää _tie, fasten; mortgage (a house) - ...
> _kiinnitys_- eg. _kiinnityspiste _(_physics_) point of attachment
> _kiinne_- eg. _kiinnekohta _attachment, point of reference - *vastmaken; een houvast *(s'thing to hold on to)
> _kiintynyt _attached to (emotionally) - *bevestigd*
> _kiinteistö _real estate ) --- *vastgoed*
> _kiintiö _quota  - ???
> _kiinni _(opposite of "open") shut, closed; (opposite of "loose") fastened... - some people do say 'vast', but not all (gesloten, locked)
> 
> *irta-*
> _irto_- eg. _irtolehti _loose page _irtokivi _loose rock, _irtokarkki _separately-bought candy
> _irti _(adverb) loose
> _irrallinen _(adjective) loose
> _irrottaa _detach, separate
> _irtain _(adjective) loose, eg. _irtain maa-aines_ loose soil



I added some Dutch words I had not thought of. Thanks.



ahmedcowon said:


> No, the word Kaaba (Kaعba) in Arabic is derived from the root "k-ع-b" (to cube)
> 
> In Arabic also, *qof* and *kaf* are two different sounds, while in Hebrew there is no distinction between them.


Great information!



ancalimon said:


> Turkish:
> 
> kurmak : to fix, to establish, to install, to set up, to found, to constitute, to cock (a tent), ...
> kurulmak: to be founded, to be set up, to set oneself comfortably
> kurul: council, committee, ...
> kurulu: stationary, established, steady, sedentary,...
> 
> bağlı: tied, fixed, not loose
> pek: sturdy, very ..,
> sağlam: sturdy, durable, solid
> kapa: to cover, to close, to settle, to become sedentary, to fix oneself, ...
> sabit (from Arabic): fixed, not moving.
> sıkı: not loose, tight, firm, compact.


Could you make the distinction between _bagli _and _kurmak _a little clearer by giving some sentences?


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## arielipi

ahmedcowon said:


> No, the word Kaaba (Kaعba) in Arabic is derived from the root "k-ع-b" (to cube)
> 
> The letter Ayn (ع) has no phonetic equivalent in Latin script and is omitted altogether in loanwords (When transliterating Arabic into Latin, we use the numerical 3 to represent ع)
> 
> In modern Hebrew, Ayin (ע) is pronounced as a glottal stop.
> 
> In Arabic also, *qof* and *kaf* are two different sounds, while in Hebrew there is no distinction between them.



Hebrew lost almost entirely the distinctions between close letters, though Yemen Jews reserve it, also khet and chaf are the same; There is a slight backtracking to some sort of recognition, some words became used as they should be.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> I wondered whether any of those have given rise to internationally known 'cultural' words... I thought of of 'sterile' (3), stars (???), but I cannot come up with any serious idea as for the others, whereas I'd guess they have had their impact on our scientific, cultural or everyday life...


You are absolutely right, both _sterile_ and _star_ are from PIE *ster-, _stiff, fixed_. 
The words for _star_ in most IE languages (Skt. स्तृ (stR), Gr. «ἀστήρ» (āstḗr), Lat. stella, Ger. Stern, Dt. ster, Eng. star, Welsh seren) are cognates. And I think it's logical that people from many ancient cultures imagined the stars as being fixed lights in the sky.
It's interesting however the semantic shift from _stiffness, hardness_ to _infertility_; yet again, the words for _barren_ in many IE languages (Skt. स्तरी (starI), _barren cow_; Gk. «στεῖρος» (steîrŏs), _barren, infertile_; Lat. sterilis, Arm. ստերջ (sterj), Alb. shtjerre) are cognates


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## ancalimon

ThomasK said:


> Could you make the distinction between _bagli _and _kurmak _a little clearer by giving some sentences?



Sıkıca bağlı: It's tied tightly.
Çadır kurulu: The tent is set up, stable.
Kurulu düzenimiz var: We have a well established order.


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## ahmedcowon

ancalimon said:


> sabit (from Arabic): fixed, not moving.



That's true, the root used in Arabic for this meaning is ث-ب-ت th-b-t (th=θ):

ثابت thaabet: fixed, stable, firm, immovable, constant
ثبات thabaat: fixity, stability, fastness, firmness, constancy
إثبات ethbaat: proof ,affirmation ,substantiation ,demonstration
تثبيت tathbeet: fixing, installing


ثبت thabata: to be fixed, proved, firm, unchanged
ثبت thabbata: to fix, affirm, belay, install
أثبت athbata: to prove


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## arielipi

ahmedcowon said:


> That's true, the root used in Arabic for this meaning is ث-ب-ت th-b-t (th=θ):
> 
> ثابت thaabet: fixed, stable, firm, immovable, constant
> ثبات thabaat: fixity, stability, fastness, firmness, constancy
> إثبات ethbaat: proof ,affirmation ,substantiation ,demonstration
> تثبيت tathbeet: fixing, installing
> 
> 
> ثبت thabata: to be fixed, proved, firm, unchanged
> ثبت thabbata: to fix, affirm, belay, install
> أثبت athbata: to prove


In hebrew the root sh-b-t is used for stability and stars


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## rusita preciosa

learnerr said:


> In Russian, the word depends on the way in which the object was fixed, either really or in metaphorical interpretation. So, no single answer, these words are too many.


I agree, just wanted to add that the common "theme" would be the prefix при- /pri/ meaning "approaching/toward/together" plus a root meaning the way of affixing. Here are some examples:
прикрепить /prikrepit'/ - together-fortify (the most generic word)
прибить /pribit'/ - together-hit (by nailing)
приклеить /prickleit'/ - together-glue
привязать /ptrviazat'/ - together-tie
пришить /prishit'/ - together-sew
присобачить /prisobatchit'/ -  together-dog (slang for affixing by any means)


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## Gavril

In some contexts, English uses _close_ as the opposite of _loose_.

Right now, the only examples I can think of of this usage are from grammatical terminology:

- *close* compound vs. loose compound: e.g., "doorman" (as opposed to "door man")
-*close* appositive vs. loose appositive: e.g., "Have you met *my friend John*?" vs. "Have you met *my friend, John*?"


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## Grefsen

ThomasK said:


> I'd be interested in your translation of "[It is] *fixed*, not loose" (not in the meaning of 'repaired'). I am also in derivations based on that root. (BTW: is there some other word in English ?)


Two other English words you can use are "fastened" and "secured."



ThomasK said:


> English: attached ???


I don't think "attached" by itself works because something can be "attached securely" or "attached loosely."


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## ThomasK

rusita preciosa said:


> I agree, just wanted to add that the common "theme" would be the prefix при- /pri/ meaning "approaching/toward/together" plus a root meaning the way of affixing. Here are some examples:
> прикрепить /prikrepit'/ - together-fortify (the most generic word)
> прибить /pribit'/ - together-hit (by nailing)
> ...
> присобачить /prisobatchit'/ -  together-dog (slang for affixing by any means)


What is intriguing to me is that there is no separate word for 'fixed' and 'loose' as a predicate such as in Dutch contexts like :   


> Our intention s_taat vast [_stands fixed]. (You can't change it, we have made up our mind)
> We cannot take this cupboard along. Z_e hangt vast_ [It hangs fixed ;-)].


But I notice now that we do not use it as a predicate, but as a prefix, part of some kind of phrasal verb, the way you do... But yours reminds me of 'together' whereas we refer to 'attaching'.  When the verb is static (standing, hanging), the _vast _refer to stability, firmness, etc. 

Would you have lexical 'key', basic,  words (as opposed to affixes, participles such as _fastened_), to describe that? I also wonder about that in other languages...


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## franknagy

Hungarian:

1. fixed as antonym of loose 
   fixed=szoros <-> loose laza
   This screw is f./l. = Ez a csavar szoros/laza.

2. fixed as not moveable
    rögzített
    In geometry: the fixed point of a transformation = a transzformáció* fix* pontja.

3. *fixa *idea = *rög*eszme

4. fixed in the sense of sure

    Is it sure?= Ez biztos.
    Yes, it is. = Tuti *fix*.
As you can see, the it is a fixed fact that the word "fix" has spread into the Hungarian language.


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## ThomasK

So you have 'loose' as a pure adj. (in 1), don't you? 

How about other words derived from it, based on it, as on _szoros? _I could image words like: 'to attach' perhaps, 'establishment' maybe, 'fortification', 'certainty', 'confirm'? You have three of four different words for this... concept_ [this might not be the correct term], _don't you?


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## franknagy

ThomasK said:


> So you have 'loose' as a pure adj. (in 1), don't you?



No, it is a not pure adjective but it is a noun, too meaning a narrow passage on the see and on the continents, or a breakthrough of a river across mountains

Gibraltári-szoros
Molukka-szoros
Panama-földszoros
Korinthoszi-szoros
Kazán-szoros (breakthrough of the Danube across the Carpathian mountains betwen Rumania and Serbia).





Thermopüléi-szoros = where 300 soldiers of Sparta delayed Xerxes's army.
----------------




> How about other words derived from it, based on it, as on _szoros? _
> maybe, 'fortification', 'certainty', 'confirm'? You have three of four different words for this... concept_ [this might not be the correct term], _don't you?


Your guesses are false but other usage of "szoros" exist.

A szó szoros értelmében = In the literal sense of word.
A coincidence: 
"-szor, -szer, -ször" used for multiplication: egyszer, kétszer, háromszor, négyszer, ötször, hatszor, ...
3-szor = three times.
So
Háromszoros = triple.
Hatszoros nyereség= The profit is six times big as ...

Look at space present/missing:
Hat szoros határidő = Six tight deadlines. 
Hatszoros határidő = You have six times more to complete your work.

...
Related words:
Szorul = get jammed
Szorulás = constipation.


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## ThomasK

Very interesting, and very surprising to me. Especially the link between turns/times and narrow things... The jamming and constipation are quite clear of course... Thanks.


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## franknagy

ThomasK said:


> Very interesting, and very surprising to me. Especially the link between turns/times and narrow things... The jamming and constipation are quite clear of course... Thanks.



Wife to her husband clothing for a party:

_W:- Hogy néz ki a nadrágod?
H:- Egy kicsit sz*o*ros.
W:- Az a kisebb baj.
H:- Mi a nagyobb?
W: - Az, hogy sz*a*ros is.

W:- Look at your trousers.
H:- They are a bit *tight*.
W:- That is the smaller problem.
H:- What is the bigger one?
W:- It is *shitty*, too.

_---
The coincidence of _"-szoros"_ suffix of multiplication with the _"szoros" _adjective meaning "tight" is an accidental.
 coincidence.
----
Let me analyze the meanings of the antonym _"laza"="loose"_ at its related words.

*Laza *= 
1. It can mean *loose* (an object that you can hold in your hand like a screw, a rope, a wire; an idea e. g.a connection).
2. It can mean a person who do not obey to rules strictly.

*Ne lazsálj* = *Get up and work!* Told somebody does not work together with the other workers (disapproval).
*Lazíts* = *Take a break, do not be anxious, nervous*.
The yoga teacher says it in the sense of *relax*.

Misi, *lazítsd meg* a csavart! = Mike, *get loose* the screw. 
A csavar *kilazult*. = The screw *has been got loose*. (The reason is unknown or not important.)
The above sentence express reversible slacking.
The next sentence denotes an irreversible and fatal happening leading to e.g. the crashing of an airplane.
A csavar *meglazult*.
(As you can see the Hungarian verb prefixes walk around their main verbs as they do it in the German language.)

We could hear the following expression about the propaganda of the Free Europe Radio in the time of the cold war:
*fellazítás*.

This action led to *fellázítás* in 1956 meaning *inducing a revolt*.

That is enough for today.


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## ThomasK

Thast has been quite interesting. But then those tow sz-words are what we'd call homonyms (or homophones). 

Very interesting note on the loose-words. There is no other word connecting _(some of) _these words, is there: 'to attach' perhaps, 'establishment' maybe, 'fortification', 'certainty', 'confirm'?


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## franknagy

Dear Thomaska, I cannot tell you 





ThomasK said:


> 'to attach' perhaps, 'establishment' maybe, 'fortification', 'certainty', 'confirm'?


such Hungarian words on the base of fixed.

The fortification is based on the word force.
Erő=force -> Erőd=fort.
Megerődít= he/she fortifies.
Megerősít= he/she confirms.

The attachment comes from the tool used by women in their hair.

Csat = clasp -> csatol = he/she attaches.

The establishment is expressed quiet differently: 
uralkodó osztály = ruling class.

Certainly= bizony -> bizonyosság= certainty.

One more match from the chemical photography:
fixírsó = fixing salt, Na2S2O3 · 5 H2O.

Regards
   Frank


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## ThomasK

It is interesting to realize that certain concepts are perceived and expressed (so) differently in different languages. Of course it helps one to realize that there is no one worldview...


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## franknagy

ThomasK said:


> It is interesting to realize that certain concepts are perceived and expressed (so) differently in different languages. Of course it helps one to realize that there is no one worldview...



The word is different in deserts, under tropical rains, on the seaside and deeply in the continent.
Have you heard that different languages divide the rainbow to basic colors at different wave lengths?


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## arielipi

Another use for the root in hebrew is what in english mean "mean"
להתכוון לזה lehitkaven leze "to mean it"


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## ThomasK

@frank: yes, you're right, have heard of the difference in colour distinctions, reminding us that WYSINWYS ;-) (what you see is not what you see), it is only perception. Yet, we spontaneously think in concepts which we consider universal. And somehow I think there must be some kind of universality, but not in a simple way... ;-) _ [Maybe just like the truth not being black or white, but to some extent black and white, paradoxical.]

_@arielipi: could you illustrate that with an example? It seems quite amazing at least...


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## arielipi

אתה לא מתכוון לזה 
you dont mean that

תכוון לשם aim there


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## ThomasK

But then: can you see a link between the meanings of 'fixed' and of 'to mean'? Do you feel there could be a link?


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## arielipi

I guess there could be, but that would be a longshot.


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## ThomasK

The point is: it might just be a homophone, i.e., same sound, different origin...


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## franknagy

Голубой is a main color in Russian, it means literally "dove color" but translated as "greyish blue".


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## ThomasK

I am back again, and I thought the underlying meanings could be: 
- stat- (standing, fixed stably, stable), lit. and fig.
- attached to something else


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