# Urdu, Persian: meaning of من آنم کہ من دانم



## Gope

From shahaabnaamah:
 بظاہر میرا نفص تو بہت پھولا، لیکن اندر ہی اندر عرق ندامت میں غوصے کھاتا رہا ، کیونکہ من آنم   کہ من دانم
what is the meaning of من آنم   کہ من دانم ? How is من pronounced here?
The words من آنم also figure as a paragraph title immediately under مقدمہ in Muhammad Khan's بسلامت روى.
Is this perhaps an allusion to من آنم   کہ من دانم ?
Thanks.


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## Qureshpor

^ man aan-am kih man daanam (Farsi)

This phrase is used to show modesty and humility. farz kareN kih aap (bhuul kar) merii ta3riif karnaa shuruu3 kar deN to maiN kahuuN gaa..

maiN jo huuN vuh maiN jaantaa huuN  (ya3nii maiN to kuchh bhii nahiiN)


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## Faylasoof

Gope said:


> From shahaabnaamah:
> بظاہر میرا نفص تو بہت پھولا، لیکن اندر ہی اندر عرق ندامت میں غوصے کھاتا رہا ، کیونکہ من آنم   کہ من دانم
> what is the meaning of من آنم   کہ من دانم ? How is من pronounced here?
> The words من آنم also figure as a paragraph title immediately under مقدمہ in Muhammad Khan's بسلامت روى.
> Is this perhaps an allusion to من آنم   کہ من دانم ?
> Thanks.


 من آنم کہ من دانم _man aanam keh man daanam _
But in speech: _man unam keh man duunam_
Idiomatically in English it can be put as:
_I know what kind of person I am_.  Or else,_  I know who I am

Edit: _I didn't see QP SaaHib's reply!


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## marrish

--- and just to add a little, I think it is from Gulistan-e-Sa'adi.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> --- and just to add a little, I think it is from Gulistan-e-Sa'adi.


 That is what I recall too!


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## Gope

Thanks, everyone.


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## Qureshpor

Is your original sentence..

بظاہر میرا نفس تو بہت پھولا لیکن اندر ہی اندر عرق ندامت میں غوطے کھاتا رہا کیونکہ من آنم کہ من دانم۔


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## Gope

Qureshpor said:


> Is your original sentence..
> 
> بظاہر میرا نفس تو بہت پھولا لیکن اندر ہی اندر عرق ندامت میں غوطے کھاتا رہا کیونکہ من آنم کہ من دانم۔


You are right, Qureshpor SaaHib, it was indeed نفس not نفص. Thanks for the correction.


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## Qureshpor

Gope said:


> You are right, Qureshpor SaaHib, it was indeed نفس not نفص. Thanks for the correction.


You are most welcome. You will no doubt have noticed that this was not the only typo. Fourteenth word was also wrong!!


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## Gope

Qureshpor said:


> You are most welcome. You will no doubt have noticed that this was not the only typo. Foureenth word was also wrong!!


No I did not until now. You are a good teacher QP SaaHib, please don't say من آنم کہ من دانم


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## Qureshpor

Gope said:


> No I did not until now. You are a good teacher QP SaaHib, please don't say من آنم کہ من دانم


حکایتی از گلستان سعدی:
یکى از بزرگان را به محفلی اندر همی ستودند
و در اوصاف جمیلش مبالغه می کردند. سربرآورد و گفت :
من آنم که من دانم.

A story from the Gulistan-i-Sa'di

kisii maHfil meN ek buzurg kii baRii sitaa'ish (ta3riif) kii jaa rahii thii aur us kii paakiizah sifatoN ko baRhaa chaRhaa kar pesh kar rahe the. (yih sun kar) us (buzurg) ne sar uupar uThaayaa aur kahaa, "man aanam kih man daanam".


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> من آنم کہ من دانم _man aanam keh man daanam _
> But in speech: _man unam keh man duunam_
> Idiomatically in English it can be put as:
> _I know what kind of person I am_.  Or else,_  I know who I am
> 
> Edit: _I didn't see QP SaaHib's reply!



By no means an expert on the matter but Hazraat couldn't it also have a  pinch of aggression rather than mandatory humility in the sense of  saying I am what I am and I know it? 

My point is a general one rather than in connection with the quote above.


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## colognial

Sheikh_14 said:


> By no means an expert on the matter but Hazraat couldn't it also have a  pinch of aggression rather than mandatory humility in the sense of  saying I am what I am and I know it?
> 
> My point is a general one rather than in connection with the quote above.


Hi, Sheikh! I think Saadi would probably have come up with *man aanam ke khod daanam*, to mean, in a more eloquent way, the alternative suggested by you.

_*Man aanam ke man daanam*_, in the context of the anecdote in the Golestaan, is automatically understood to mean that a person's identity, or her reputation, is determined by the extent and depth of her knowledge.


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## Gope

colognial said:


> Hi, Sheikh! I think Saadi would probably have come up with *man aanam ke khod daanam*, to mean, in a more eloquent way, the alternative suggested by you.
> 
> _*Man aanam ke man daanam*_, in the context of the anecdote in the Golestaan, is automatically understood to mean that a person's identity, or her reputation, is determined by the extent and depth of her knowledge.


I had the same question as Sheikh SaaHib in mind, thank you for your response, colognial SaaHib!


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## Sheikh_14

colognial said:


> Hi, Sheikh! I think Saadi would probably have come up with *man aanam ke khod daanam*, to mean, in a more eloquent way, the alternative suggested by you.
> 
> _*Man aanam ke man daanam*_, in the context of the anecdote in the Golestaan, is automatically understood to mean that a person's identity, or her reputation, is determined by the extent and depth of her knowledge.



Saadi aside, in Colloquial Farsi is that a connotation the line could take, since it does go well together and rolls of the tongue smoothly. Thank you for the previous response btw.

Conceive of someone, with hubris thumping their chest and saying Man Anaam ke Man Daanam. Suddenly new light is given to the phrase.


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## Jervoltage

Sheikh_14 said:


> Conceive of someone, with hubris thumping their chest and saying Man Anaam ke Man Daanam. Suddenly new light is given to the phrase.



That would be stretching it a bit. To me, there is no trace of hubris in it.


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## colognial

Sheikh_14 said:


> Saadi aside, in Colloquial Farsi is that a connotation the line could take, since it does go well together and rolls of the tongue smoothly. Thank you for the previous response btw.
> 
> Conceive of someone, with hubris thumping their chest and saying Man Anaam ke Man Daanam. Suddenly new light is given to the phrase.





Yes, of course. The words can be taken out of their context to suggest pride or, in an opposite sense, to mean "if only you knew what I know about me!"

What's  more, the man in the Golestaan anecdote, too, may have been thinking  along the same lines, except in his case, he seems rather to be saying something impersonal, and to take no pride in his knowledge.

I can think of two reasons  why Saadi, to my mind, is here simply extolling the benefits of  learning. one, the character's self-knowledge still counts as part of  the whole body of knowledge accumulated by him, so that he seems to still be implying that any person's virtues stem from the fact that that person is learned and could well possess a pretty  good knowledge of himself; two, when Saadi wrote that stuff,  self-awareness and the idea of self in general were not given as much  weight as nowadays they seem to enjoy.


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