# أنا اسمي



## ausermilar

Hello!

There is already a thread about this topic but I'm not capable of understanding it.

I just see that in sentences like انا اسمي علية, if I translate "I my name is Alia" , there is too much information (basically, the "I" is useless).


The same with انا ساعتي  تمانية (I, my hour is eight).  

Could anyone explain this structure, but in plain English, please?

May we use it in with all the personal pronouns (she her name is Ruth, they their parents are at the bus stop, you your dog is sick...) an so on? 

Thanks.


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## Romeel

In the Arabic language, many tools are used for emphasis, including the use of pronouns or repetition.

For example: My name is Ali. أنا اسمي علي
The origin of this sentence is اسمي علي and we add أنا  for emphasis

I can also say أنا علي or even  علي without anything else when someone asks you what's your name?


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## cherine

Yes, the pronouns in this sort of sentences are used for emphasis or to mark a contrast. For example, when introducing a friend or stating the names of several persons: هذا فلان، وهذه فلانة، وأنا شيرين/أنا اسمي شيرين
Or هل ساعتك ثمانية؟ أنا ساعتي ثمانية ونصف


ausermilar said:


> May we use it in with all the personal pronouns (she her name is Ruth, they their parents are at the bus stop, you your dog is sick...) an so on?


We can say هي اسمها روث , but I can't think of a context where هم آباؤهم في محطة الأوتوبيس/الباص or أنت كلبك مريض. But we can put the pronouns after the nouns, again for emphasis آباؤهم هم في المحطة (whereas my parents have already left, for example). كلبك أنت مريض (and not mine, for example).

But as a general rule, those pronouns are unnecessary.


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## ausermilar

cherine said:


> But as a general rule, those pronouns are unnecessary.


Aouff! OK, thanks.


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## Ali Smith

So, you would use a ضمير مرفوع in the beginning if you wanted to contrast different people? E.g.

X: ما أسماؤكم؟
Y: أنا اسمي زيد وهو اسمه خالد وهي اسمها زينب

It would sound strange if the conversation went:

X: ما أسماؤكم؟
Y: اسمي زيد واسمه خالد واسمها زينب


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> So, you would use a ضمير مرفوع in the beginning if you wanted to contrast different people? E.g.
> 
> X: ما أسماؤكم؟
> Y: أنا اسمي زيد وهو اسمه خالد وهي اسمها زينب
> 
> It would sound strange if the conversation went:
> 
> X: ما أسماؤكم؟
> Y: اسمي زيد واسمه خالد واسمها زينب


بالنسبه للسؤال نستطيع أن نقول
ما هي أسماءكم؟
ما أسماءكم؟

أما بالنسبة للجواب فنستطيع أن نقول
أنا اسمي زيد وهذا اسمه خالد وهذه اسمها زينب
اسمي زيد واسمه خالد واسمها زينب
أنا زيد وهذا خالد وهذه زينب

وأفضلها آخرها فلا داعي لتكرار اسم


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## Mahaodeh

Ali Smith said:


> It would sound strange if the conversation went:
> 
> X: ما أسماؤكم؟
> Y: اسمي زيد واسمه خالد واسمها زينب


No, it would not sound strange. This sounds neutral while using the pronoun is emphasizing the people whose names are mentioned.

To be frank, even in colloquial I wouldn’t use the pronoun unless I wanted to emphasize.


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## rarabara

Mahaodeh said:


> No, it would not sound strange. This sounds neutral while using the pronoun is emphasizing the people whose names are mentioned.
> 
> To be frank, even in colloquial I wouldn’t use the pronoun unless I wanted to emphasize.


I agree.
and ı wonder whether it would be sufficient for Arabic as same as other languages I know (Turkish,Kurdish,English)


Ali Smith said:


> It would sound strange if the conversation went:
> 
> X: ما أسماؤكم؟
> Y: اسمي زيد واسمه خالد واسمها زينب


to just point each person out by finger and going on?
I think , it would be quite normal but do not know how Arabs think or act.


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## rarabara

cherine said:


> هل ساعتك ثمانية؟ أنا ساعتي ثمانية ونصف


this seemed to me little bit strange (the answer).


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## Romeel

rarabara said:


> this seemed to me little bit strange (the answer).


هل هي الثامنة في ساعتك؟

أنا ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف.


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## rarabara

Romeel said:


> هل هي الثامنة في ساعتك؟


  أشكرك لهذا الشارح و افكر أن ذلك الشارح العاقل لكن لا اعرف  نقتة,هل استطع أن أسءل تلك نقتة :


> أنا ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف.



 لأي معنى (شيء)  هذه جملة أُستخدم عن جواب

1(مثال: لصف خبز ) صف أم ذيل
2) عن زمان  (ساعة)


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## tracer2

ausermilar said:


> I just see that in sentences like انا اسمي علية, if I translate "I my name is Alia" , there is too much information (basically, the "I" is useless).


Yes the "I" is "useless" as you put it, (although it performs the function of  "emphasis").  But it shouldn't appear so strange especially if you're native to a Romance language.   

For example, both Spanish and French (and I imagine your own language Portuguese) have *near parallel constructions*:

*Je* m'appelle Jean/*Yo* me llamo Juan.......both the "Je" and the "Yo" are unnecessary (but used all the time).  Ditto in Arabic with *انا* اسمي
======
For the sake of correctness:  
note that Spanish double* "ll"* is always pronounced *"y"*  ( llamo = yamo) and *"J"* is always pronounced *"H"* (Juan = Hwan)


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## Romeel

rarabara said:


> أشكرك لهذا الشارح و افكر أن ذلك الشارح العاقل لكن لا اعرف  نقتة,هل استطع أن أسءل تلك نقتة :
> 
> 
> لأي معنى (شيء)  هذه جملة أُستخدم عن جواب
> 
> 1(مثال: لصف خبز ) صف أم ذيل
> 2) عن زمان  (ساعة)


نعم

تخيل شخص يقول : الساعة الآن الثامنة.
فيرد الشخص الآخر: هل هي الثامنة في ساعتك؟!ـ
ثم يجيب عن سؤاله هو فيقول: أنا ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف.

Imagine someone saying: It's eight o'clock now.

The other replies: Is it eight o'clock in your watch?!

Then he answers his own question and says: My watch at half past eight.


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## ausermilar

tracer2 said:


> Yes the "I" is "useless" as you put it, (although it performs the function of  "emphasis").  But it shouldn't appear so strange especially if you're native to a Romance language.
> 
> For example, both Spanish and French (and I imagine your own language Portuguese) have *near parallel constructions*:
> 
> *Je* m'appelle Jean/*Yo* me llamo Juan.......both the "Je" and the "Yo" are unnecessary (but used all the time).  Ditto in Arabic with *انا* اسمي
> ======
> For the sake of correctness:
> note that Spanish double* "ll"* is always pronounced *"y"*  ( llamo = yamo) and *"J"* is always pronounced *"H"* (Juan = Hwan)


Thanks for your contribution but:

1. In Spanish, "LL" (elle) and "y" (y griega) have a complete different pronunciation, at least in Spain. You are talking about the South American dialects, I guess.
2. In Spanish the "J" (jota) is not pronounced "h" (hache) like in the English words (home, he, ...), but like the German ones "Heim, Hund...". Is the Arabic   خ .
3. It's not the same "Yo me llamo Juan/Moi, je m'appelle Jean" (that you suggest) that "Yo, mi nombre es Juan/ Moi, mon nom c'est Jean" that are grammatically incorrect in both languages (and these are the direct translations  of the Arabic construction of this thread).

In any case, good try.


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## tracer2

ausermilar said:


> Thanks for your contribution but:
> 
> 1. In Spanish, "LL" (elle) and "y" (y griega) have a complete different pronunciation, at least in Spain. You are talking about the South American dialects, I guess.
> 2. In Spanish the "J" (jota) is not pronounced "h" (hache) like in the English words (home, he, ...), but like the German ones "Heim, Hund...". Is the Arabic   خ .
> 3. It's not the same "Yo me llamo Juan/Moi, je m'appelle Jean" (that you suggest) that "Yo, mi nombre es Juan/ Moi, mon nom c'est Jean" that are grammatically incorrect in both languages (and these are the direct translations  of the Arabic construction of this thread).
> 
> In any case, good try.


Thanks for the reply. I tried to keep it simple , but I think my comments need further clarification.

1 - My notes regarding the "LL"  the "y" and the "j" were directed at English speakers, not Spanish speakers. When a native English speaker sees the Spanish word "llama" he will invariably - and incorrectly -  say "lama".  When he sees the Spanish word "cállate" he will invariably - and incorrectly - say (calate).

For both these words, he should say "yama" and "cayate" because Spanish "ll" is most often pronounced "y" in the way native *English speakers *normally pronounce "y" (_*not in the way* a Spanish speaker might pronounce "y".....there are about 3 different ways a Spanish speaker could pronounce "y"_).  But how a Spanish speaker can/might pronounce "y" is irrelevant for us in this discussion.

2- It is an old wives' tale that Arabic *خ* is the same sound you hear in German "*H*und" "*H*eim" and that Spanish (*J*) is also pronounced like *خ* .  This is pure fiction.  The closest German might come to خ is the word "I*ch*".  But even "i*ch*" is different from Arabic خ .  The same goes for Spanish words with (*J*)......Jorge, joven, Julio, reloj, bruja, bajar, jamas....the list is endless.....in none of these is the (j) pronounced like Arabic خ .....not even close.  Some "dialects" of Spanish might pronounce the "J" harsher than normal, but even then it's not an Arabic خ .

3 - Here, you are correct that your sentences "Yo, mi nombre es Juan/ Moi, mon nom c'est Jean" *are grammatically incorrect.* But if that is true, you can't use them to compare with the Arabic انا اسمي because انا اسمي *is correct.*  If you do use them (as you did) you're basically comparing apples to oranges. The minute you do that, your argument is pretty much rendered invalid.


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## rarabara

ausermilar said:


> انا ساعتي ثمانية





Romeel said:


> نعم
> 
> تخيل شخص يقول : الساعة الآن الثامنة.
> فيرد الشخص الآخر: هل هي الثامنة في ساعتك؟!ـ
> ثم يجيب عن سؤاله هو فيقول: أنا ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف.
> 
> Imagine someone saying: It's eight o'clock now.
> 
> The other replies: Is it eight o'clock in your watch?!
> 
> Then he answers his own question and says: My watch at half past eight.


Hi , Rommel, thank you for reply:
but is not something strange in that sentence, in my previous reply,more clearly I was supposing cherine's post explaining something like this : "I am in the half past eight of time (i.e. like in the queue of something like in bank , bread etc.)" in her this explanation :



cherine said:


> أنا ساعتي ثمانية ونصف



but I see your last comment does not confirm this.

really I found it a bit strange. Normally انا is not a necessary pronoun in mentioned sentence but in the sentence now cherine provided ,it is also a pronoun which should NOT be available to me.

or otherwise , can't we prefer a better sentence instead?

like this one I provide full dialog in relevance:



> تخيل شخص يقول : الساعة الآن الثامنة.
> 
> فيرد الشخص الآخر: هل هي الثامنة في ساعتك؟!ـ
> ثم يجيب عن سؤاله هو فيقول : من ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف


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## Mahaodeh

rarabara said:


> really I found it a bit strange. Normally انا is not a necessary pronoun in mentioned sentence but in the sentence now cherine provided ,it is also a pronoun which should NOT be available to me.


Yes, normally it’s not necessary, but it’s added for emphasis.

In cherine’s example, the speaker wanted to explain that _*his*_ watch is half past eight, not anyone else’s. That’s why the pronoun is used.



rarabara said:


> ثم يجيب عن سؤاله هو فيقول : من ساعتي عند الثامنة والنصف


I’m sorry, but what are you trying to say? Why the من? Is that حرف جرّ or is it اسم موصول? Most importantly, why is it better?


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## rarabara

Mahaodeh said:


> I’m sorry, but what are you trying to say? Why the من? Is that حرف جرّ or is it اسم موصول? Most importantly, why is it better?


it is a preposition (ْمِن) , not a question(al) particle (ْمَن) . In case the implicated/intended meaning was in the form I predicted, then I thought it should be better.


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## rarabara

Mahaodeh said:


> In cherine’s example, the speaker wanted to explain that _*his*_ watch is half past eight, not anyone else’s. That’s why the pronoun is used.


mm, can we assume / accept that in Arabic (MSA) natural pronouns (you may raise one more question "what does natural pronouns mean",I do not know but I called the pronouns I provide in paranthesis as "natural pronouns",I maybe wrong there, maybe subject pronouns...) (انا,انت,انتِ,هي,هو,هن,هم,هما,انتم,انتما,انتن,نحن) can be used as possesive pronouns always in  suitable sentences?


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## Romeel

rarabara said:


> Hi , Rommel, thank you for reply:
> but is not something strange in that sentence, in my previous reply,more clearly I was supposing cherine's post explaining something like this : "I am in the half past eight of time (i.e. like in the queue of something like in bank , bread etc.)" in her this explanation :
> 
> 
> 
> but I see your last comment does not confirm this.
> 
> really I found it a bit strange. Normally انا is not a necessary pronoun in mentioned sentence but in the sentence now cherine provided ,it is also a pronoun which should NOT be available to me.
> 
> or otherwise , can't we prefer a better sentence instead?
> 
> like this one I provide full dialog in relevance:


ليست ضرورية لكنها مناسبة جدا هنا لأنه يريد أن يؤكد أن الوقت عنده مختلف عن الثامنة عند الآخر

لكن تستطيع أن تقول أيضا
هل الساعة الثامنة والنصف عندك؟! فساعتي عند الثامنة.

أو تقلب الجمل فتقول

لكن ساعتي عند الثامنة! هل هي الثامنة والنصف في ساعتك؟!ـ

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لكن لا نستطيع أن نقول 
من ساعتي
بأي حال من الأحوال


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## קטן

French:
's'appeler' is a reflexive verb, first person singular 'je m'appelle'. Thus, the natural French equivalent of أنا إسمي عليّة is 'MOI, je m'appelle <name>', not the basic 'je m'appelle'. Don't compare apples and oranges (although it's possible).


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