# سبح - تسبيح



## seitt

Greetings,

Wehr gives سبح in Form I as meaning only ‘to swim’.

Did it also mean ‘to praise’ in Classical Arabic, please?

I am talking specifically about Form I in this case; of course, I am aware that Form 2 has this meaning.

If I am right, what was the maṣdar corresponding to this meaning?

All the best, and many thanks,

Simon


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## ayed

The maSdar is *التسبيح*


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## Josh_

I just checked the Lisan Al-Arab (an ancient Arabic dictionary and Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (a 19th century dictionary based on ancient Arabic dictionaries) and neither had any meaning related to 'praise' for the form I verb, so it appears that it did not hold that meaning.


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## ayed

سورة الحديد
*سَبَّحَ لِلَّهِ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ *


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## cherine

I don't know forms I, II...etc. But the Arabic verb form saba7a (fa3ala) has only the meaning of swimming.
The meaning of praising is in the form fa33ala (sabba7a) as the one in the Qur'an.


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## Ustaath

I would just like to add that in some dialects of the gulf, it also means 'taking a bath' - of course this is a regional use, but it is used sometimes in "low' MSA with this meaning in local publications

Question: would سبحان  على وزن فعلان be derived from وزن فعل؟


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## cherine

Here's a part from the rather long س-ب-ح entry in لسان العرب :


حكى ثعلب: سَبَّح تسبيحاً وسُبْحاناً، وعندي أَن سُبْحاناً ليس بمصدر سَبَّح، إِنما هو مصدر سَبَح. وفي التهذيب: سَبَّحْتُ الله تسبيحاً وسُبْحاناً بمعنى واحد، فالمصدر تسبيح، والاسم سُبْحان يقوم مقام المصدر.​
So, if I understood this right, some grammarians/linguists say that سبحان comes from sa*b*a7a, while others believe it's from sa*bb*a7a.


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## Josh_

Sorry About that Ayed and Cherine.  I usually include reference to both systems of verb classification for the sake of those who are only familiar with one and not the other.  

Yes, like you, I found that the _fa3ala_ verb (i.e. form I), _sabaHa_, only carries the meaning of 'to swim' while the _fa33ala_ (i.e. form II), _sabbaHa_, is the verb meaning to praise God.


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## cherine

No problem Josh, I wasn't complaining nor criticizing anyone. I was just stating a fact: that I know verb forms with their Arabic names only.


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## Ustaath

I'm tempted to open  a new thread to check any cognates of س ب ح in other Semetic languages and whether they carry other or translational meanings. 
I mean technically the maSdar's of sa-bb-a7a seem to indicate a relation to form I.
Where should I post such a thread- or can someone volunteer ?


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## Mazhara

Does this word at its own mean "to Praise Allah"?

*وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ 
فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ *

The original form [I-فَعَلَ] signifies an act which involves an effort directed towards an end/focussed destination. Would not the derivatives reflect some sort of relationship with the Root meanings, with added connotations, colour, dimensions?


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## Ustaath

I would think the meaning to be implied by association

Can you please share your reference? Sounds plausible


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## Mazhara

Thanks,

Linguists say this about Arabic Roots.

Any Arabic word when associated with another word will certainly signify more than that it signified individually. Each word verbally depicts a static image of an object/physical reality or state.

Similarly a word describing an act will reflect atleast 24-30 static images which will enable us to perceive that act/activity/movement.

When we use first form of this Root what we see in our vision is someone moving and traversing water in a resorvoir towards one direction, unsupported using natural means of propulsion, i.e. hands and legs, regularly in an effort to arrive at the bank, which is the object of all that effort.

As Josh quoted, the maSdar/verbal noun of Form-II is *التسبيح* which generally denotes a perception of someone repetitvely mentioning and calling upon the Sought One, either by Title, Allah or His Personal Name Ar'Reh'maan or Adjectival Names describing distinct attribute of exacting balance/proportioned/ equilibrium/ virtue/ admirable/ grandeur/ just/ absoluteness/beauty with sublime connotation which are appropriate and exclusive for Him. 

Does it not show some resemblence to Form-I?


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## Ustaath

I would like a reference that Form I means more than merely the act of swimming - you are inferring, which is not wrong in itself, but your reasoning, sound as it seems, could do with support from Arabic lexicons.

Why not, for example, imagine total surrender to the water or total immersion , or the act of cleansing in water . The latter by the way is how some local dialects use form I to mean. 

All these are speculative and educated guesses, more substance to support such efforts would help.


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## Mazhara

> I would like a reference that Form I means more than merely the act of swimming - you are inferring, which is not wrong in itself, but your reasoning, sound as it seems, could do with support from Arabic lexicons.


 
I am not saying that the Form-I means more than the act of swimming. I just explained what swimming means, and am sure no Arabic lexicons will call swimming to mean something else.

Swimming perhaps does not denote "total surrender to the water or total immersion, or the act of cleansing in water".


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## إسكندراني

Mazhara said:


> Does this word at its own mean "to Praise Allah"?
> 
> *وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ *
> *فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ *



No, the مفعول به is not implied by the verb (سبّح) from a linguistic point of view.


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## Ustaath

Mazhara said:


> Swimming perhaps does not denote "total surrender to the water or total immersion, or the act of cleansing in water".



it does in some dialects


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## Ustaath

إسكندراني said:


> No, the مفعول به is not implied by the verb (سبّح) from a linguistic point of view.



That is correct. Which is why i say  /by association/ meaning, when we use سبّح we usually associate the verb with Allah as the object - so it can  be 'implied' by association  -but NOT linguistically 
تماما كما تفضلتَ ووضحت


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