# 大きくない物



## kachibi

I am studying adjectives from a book. The book introduces 連體形 and gives this example: 大きい物. This example shows a positive adjective. I find that for all other 連體形 examples in the book, the adjectives are also positive.

I wonder, does it mean 連體形 with a negative adjective is wrong/ doesn't exist at all? For example: 大きくない物.


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## wind-sky-wind

First, "體" is the traditional form of "体," and you can use "連体形" instead.

"大きくない物" is correct.
Generally speaking, about every adjective you can say "...くない物," and books don't say anything about it.
And you can say "小さい物" instead, though they are slightly different from each other.


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## kachibi

So, 大きくなりません物、大きかろう物､大きいでしょう物､大きかった物､大きくなる物､大きくなりません物､大きくならない物､大きくなりません物､大きくなった物 and 大きくなりました物 are all grammatically correct?


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## wind-sky-wind

Um, 大きくなりません物、大きいでしょう物､ and 大きくなりました物 sound weird.
You can't use polite forms as "連体形."


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## kamot

大きくなりませ*ん*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きかろ*う*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きいでしょ*う*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きかっ*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きく*なる*(verb, 連体形)物
大きくなら*ない*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きくなっ*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
大きくなりまし*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物

The words followed by "物" in your phrases can be regarded as 連体形, these are grammatically correct, I think.
But we don't say "〜ません物" and "〜でしょう物".
I think it is possible to say "大きくなりました物". For example, "成長して大きくなりました物が蝶です".
But as wind-sky-wind said, it sounds a little weird. "大きくなった物" is more natural.


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## frequency

kachibi said:


> 大きい物. This example shows a positive adjective.


 
This is an adjective in a normal use.
And the adjective 大きい is in a negative form, and you're saying that is something not big.

About your 'positive', I think you mean affirmative （肯定） and negation （否定）. But we don't have affirmative adjectives or negative adjectives.


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## kachibi

What do you mean by "we do not have affirmative or negative adjectives."?

大きい is already an affirmative adjective, while 大きくない is a negative adjective.


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## kachibi

And sorry, I forget two more:

大きくありません物
大きくなります物

They are also polite forms, so they are NOT correct too?


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## frequency

Adjectives do not fall into such categories: affirmative and negative.

大きい is merely an adjective. When you say 大きくない, the adjective 大きい is now negated or is in a negative form by adding ない.
大きくない・小さくない・美しくない.. are very commonly used, and I suppose you have the similar way in Chinese.


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## kamot

kachibi said:


> 大きくありません物
> 大きくなります物
> 
> They are also polite forms, so they are NOT correct too?



These are also grammatically correct like the examples you gave before, but we don't usually use these phrases.


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## kachibi

*OK:* 大きかろ*う*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*OK:* 大きかっ*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*OK:* 大きく*なる*(verb, 連体形)物
*OK:* 大きくなら*ない*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*OK:* 大きくなっ*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*OK but weird:* 大きくなりまし*た*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*OK but weird:* 大きくありません物
*OK but weird:* 大きくなります物
*NEVER:* 大きいでしょ*う*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物
*NEVER: *大きくなりませ*ん*(auxiliary verb, 連体形)物

Let me do a summary. The above is correct?


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## kamot

Well,... we don't say 大きくありません物. Probably never.
We might say 大きくなります物, but yes, it's a little weird.

Let me add one thing regarding 大きかろう物.
We can say 大きかろう物, but nouns after 大きかろう and its usage are very limited. For example, we say "大きかろう*物*なら...", "大きかろう*はず*がない" etc., but we don't say "大きかろう*猫*", "大きかろう*野菜*" and so on.


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## kachibi

Okay, good! Thank you!


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## kachibi

Ah, sorry, last three: 
*
大きいですか物
大きいければ物
大きいです物*

All are incorrect?


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## cool-jupiter

kachibi - Sorry, but I must tell you that 
*
大きいですか物
大きいければ物
大きいです物*
*
か *produces an interrogative meaning and/or impression, and it doesn't work when it's used as 連体形. 
*ければ* makes the sentence or the part of the sentence where it's used sounds conditional and/or subjunctive, which doesn't work either as 連体形.
*です *is very commonly used to make polite forms. However, *です* works when it's used as part of 述語, not as part of 連体形. 

Hope this helps.


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## kachibi

Good, very good!


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