# البحرين تعين امرأة قاضية للمرة الأولى



## MarcB

أصدر ملك البحرين حمد بن عيسى آلخليفة أمرا ملكيا يقضي بتعيين سيدة بحرينية قاضية بالمحكمة 
الكبرى المدنية للمرة الأولى في تاريخ البلاد
وفي تصريح لتلفزيون البحرين قالت منى جاسم محمد الكواري إنها تشعر بالاعتزاز كونها أول قاضية بحرينية​*Bahrain** appointed a woman judge for the first time*
* *
The King of Bahrain, Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, issued a royal decree  naming a Bahraini woman as  Superior Civil Court Judge for the first time in the country's history
In a statement to Bahrain TV Mona Jassim Mohammed Al-Kawari said she is proud of being the first female Bahraini judge. 
​Any suggestions for my translation are welcome.


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## ayed

Good translation, MarcB.

Though I am not English-native .Yet, imitated the English style :
-------------------------------------------
*Bahrain appointed a woman for the first time*​ 
The King of Bahrain, Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, issued a royal decree naming/assigning a Bahraini lady as a judge to the Superior Civil Court for the first time in the country's history.​ 
Stated to the Bahrain TV, Mona Jassim Mohammed Al-Kawari feels proud of being the first Bahraini judge. 
Or ​ 
Mona Jassim Mohammed Al-Kawari she feels proud of being the first Bahraini judge, said to the Bahraini TV.​


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## cherine

Excuse me Ayed, but I prefer Marc's translation. And I don't see why you used "lady".


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## ayed

cherine said:


> Excuse me Ayed, but I prefer Marc's translation. And I don't see why you used "lady".


Well, Cherine.
How would you translate (*بتعيين سيدة بحرينية* )?


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## cherine

سيدة = woman.
Simply  
A lady is not just woman, it's a "fine", or noble, like we say in Egypt هانم or سيدة راقية . But sayyida is like imra2a : woman.


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## ayed

cherine said:


> سيدة = woman.
> Simply
> A lady is not just woman, it's a "fine", or noble, like we say in Egypt هانم or سيدة راقية . But sayyida is like imra2a : woman.


 
Ladies and Gentlemen ,
Welcome to this conference...
This phrase is often said at the start of such a conference.
Are all ladies attending that conference noble and of highly class?


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## cherine

It's something in English, and my English is not good enough. But when speaking English you won't call people men and women. Same in French: they say : Medames et Messieurs, but a woman is: une femme. If I'm translating this sentence into French I would sure use "femme", not "madame".
I'm sorry if I can't compare between Arabic and English, I guess it's a matter of usage, which differs from a language to another.

Let's wait for others' opinions.


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## ayed

motashakkir awee , ya she-reen


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## Abu Bishr

Here is a link for the use of "lady" and "woman" in English.

I don't think "sayyidah" is like "imra'ah", even though for a western audience it won't make sense to translate "sayyidah" as "lady" in this context. For an Arabic audience though especially Bahrainis themselves it would be more appropriate to use "sayyidah" instead of "imra'ah" because we are not talking about just any woman but a certain "sayyidah" having a certain distinction and therefore needs to be accorded the necessary respect in that society. The use of the epithet "bahrainiyyah" only seems to reinforce that because of the writer's context. 

So it is more a show of respect when referring to Arab women or more specifically "women in upper society" or "women of distinction" which makes it more of a cultural thing. Notice that the headline uses "imra'ah" as no reference was made to anyone in particular as yet. Later on, however, as we got closer to the identity of the woman and adding to that the use of the adjective "bahrainiyyah" the word "sayyidah" seemed more appropriate in the context. For the writer to have used "imra-ah bahrainiyyah" in the text would have been, I think, stylistically inappropriate because we are not just talking about any woman but a certain "sayyidah" who holds a very high position. Obviously, this does not hold any meaning or significance for the westerner who is at a distance from the scene so "bahraini woman" would be more suitable.

"Sayyidah" or colloquially "Sitt" is almost always used for respect, if I'm correct. In fact, the root from which it is derived is indicative thereof (ساد - يسود - سيادة) and also the translation for "Ladies and Gentlemen" is: سيداتي وسادتي .

In short, I think the issue has to do with "closeness" and "distance" . The audience of the source language is closer to the person under discussion than the audience of the target language.


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## cherine

ayed said:


> motashakkir awee , ya she-reen


el 3afu ya 3ayed.


Abu Bishr said:


> ... for a western audience it won't make sense to translate "sayyidah" as "lady" in this context.


Thanks Abu Bishr. This is exactly what I meant.


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## linguist786

cherine said:


> سيدة = woman.
> Simply
> A lady is not just woman, it's a "fine", or noble, like we say in Egypt هانم or سيدة راقية . But sayyida is like imra2a : woman.


If I was to spontaneously explain the difference between "lady" and "woman", I would firstly say that "lady" is the female equivalent of the male "lord". However, "lady" can also be used in a sentence like:

"I saw a lady crossing the road" - but equally, we could also say "I saw a woman crossing the road". 
(although "lord" cannot be replaced for "man" )

The reason "lady" might be used is just because of "respect" or politeness. A bit like saying "I saw a _gentleman_ crossing the road" which sounds more polite than just "man".

This is why we say "ladies and gentleman" - like you said, it sounds better (or more "polite" we should say) than "men and women" 

I agree that in this context (in this translation), "woman" sounds better. "lady" sounds a bit stilted if I'm honest..


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## elroy

As a bilingual in Arabic and English, I confirm that "woman" is the suitable translation in this context.  "Lady" used to refer to "woman" is actually more colloquial (in American English).

_What did the lady at the store tell you when you went to return the CD?_ 

To my ears, this does not indicate a special degree of respct, as would the masculine equivalent "gentleman" in such a context.  

As for the Arabic سيدة - honestly, I think Abu Bishr may have been reading too much into it.   I don't think امرأة would have been "inappropriate"; rather, سيدة may have been a reference to her marital status.  As you must know, in Arabic سيدة can be used to refer to a married woman as opposed to an unmarried woman (آنسة).  English does not have a pair of words that highlight this distinction (rather, the distinction is indicated, if at all, by the titles "Mrs." and "Miss").  At any rate, we all seem to agree that "woman" is the appropriate translation. 

As for the translation, Marc, it is top-notch.  If I may, I would suggest using the verb "appointing" instead of "naming," and the present tense for the headline. 

Ayed, I'm afraid that your suggestions for the second sentence do not work in English.


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## MarcB

Thanks to everyone. The woman/lady comparison I understand since it can be a regional thing and Abu Bashr’s take makes sense since she is not an average woman. Although the other ideas make sense as well. In Bahrain I have heard colloquially sitt hanim a combination of Cherine and Abu Bashr ‘s phrases. Mona Jassim Mohammed Al-Kawari feels proud of being the first Bahraini judge. Here I think saying in English female is important since that is the point of the article. Appointing naming and Ayed’s assigning I was a bit unsure as to the best choice. The title *البحرين** **تعين** **امرأة** **قاضية** **للمرة** **الأولى*  I know was in the present but I thought the past tense would be used in English..


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## abusaf

Actually most news headlines, in Arabic or English, are written in present tense to get a feeling of it happening right now.


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## elroy

abusaf said:


> Actually most news headlines, in Arabic or English, are written in present tense...


 Right, hence my suggestion.


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## Josh_

I agree that "woman" is the correct translation in this context.  Lady has its uses, but this is not one of them.  I agree with the assessment of lady on the webpage that Abu Bishr linked to.  I'm not sure if I agree that "lady" is more colloquial in English.  But all this is probably a discussion for the English forum.


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## elroy

Josh Adkins said:


> I'm not sure if I agree that "lady" is more colloquial in English.


 Perhaps I did not express myself well.  I did not mean that "lady" was always colloquial in English.  I, too, agree with the remarks on the website regarding the use of "lady" to show respect when referring to a woman in her presence.  However, I have heard "lady" being used casually to refer to any woman without necessarily showing respect (as in my example sentence), and that's the impression I would get if I read a sentence like "Bahrain has appointed a lady as a judge."

"Gentleman," on the other hand, always suggests respect or politeness.

That's been my experience, anyway.


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