# Pronunciation: Depay



## LoveVanPersie

Hello! Do you know if the _*ay*_ of Dutch footballer Memphis Depay's surname pronounced /*ɑ*i̯/ or /*aː*i̯/?

In the article Dutch orthography Wikipedia says _ay_ is pronounced /*aː*i̯/, but in the article Memphis Depay it is transcribed /*ɑ*i̯/. I have found a video on YouTube where he pronounced the name himself: _Blessuretijd met Memphis Depay en Quincy Promes | ZAPPSPORT_ at 0:17. Is the _a_ long or short? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Peterdg

LoveVanPersie said:


> Is the _a_ long or short?


Hard to say. Where is the border between a long and a short "a", especially when pronouncing foreign names?


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## LoveVanPersie

Dank je!
Is it hard even for Dutch native speakers to hear the difference between /ɑi̯/ and /aːi̯/?


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## Peterdg

LoveVanPersie said:


> Is it hard even for Dutch native speakers to hear the difference between /ɑi̯/ and /aːi̯/?


The difference between a long and a short "a" is only relevant where it is relevant for the meaning. In a foreign name, it is not relevant.

There is a general misconception that these differences (between long and short vowels) are objective. They are not. You have to look at them in the context in which they appear.  In this foreign name, there is no meaningful context, so it does not make sense to talk about a short or a long "a". It's something in between, or, a long "a", or a short "a". It doesn't really matter.

Let's consider an example. 

"Bram" is a first name in Dutch (short "a").
"Braam" is a kind of a plant in Dutch (a long "a")

But if you want to call "Bram" to know where he is, you would shout: "Braaaaaaaam, where are you?" and then "Bram" is suddenly  pronounced with a long "a" and you certainly don't mean to shout at the plant.


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## Red Arrow

Peterdg said:


> But if you want to call "Bram" to know where he is, you would shout: "Braaaaaaaam, where are you?" and then "Bram" is suddenly  pronounced with a long "a" and you certainly don't mean to shout at the plant.


In some places such as Antwerp, Amsterdam and Utrecht, yes. Bram is pronounced [bram] and "Braaaaam" is pronounced [bra:m].
In most other accents, including Standard Dutch, Bram is pronounced [brɑm] and "Braaaaaam" is pronounced *[brɑ:m]*, not [bra:m]. It doesn't sound like the plant!

The only exception to this is the word *amai*. Most Flemish accents lack the French diphtongue [ai] and have to substitute it with either [ɑi] or [a:i]. I can think of 4 ways to say this word. This doesn't happen with native words like *fraai.*

It is noticeable, however, that Dutch has only two words with [ɔi]: *hoi *and *toitoitoi*, both of which form a minimal pair with [o:i] in hooi and tooi, respectively.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for your information!



Red Arrow said:


> It is noticeable, however, that Dutch has only two words with [ɔi]: *hoi *and *toitoitoi*, both of which form a minimal pair with [o:i] in hooi and tooi, respectively.


Can _hoi_ be pronounced with /oːi̯/? Besides /ɦɔi̯/, Dutch Wiktionary also transcribes / hoj /.
Are the arena name _Ahoy_ and the interjection _ahoi_ pronounced /aːˈɦɔi̯/, also with /ɔi̯/? (Are they cognate from English _ahoy_?)


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## Red Arrow

hooi can be pronounced /ɦo:i/ or /hoi/. ([ɔ:i] with a strong Flemish Brabantian accent)
hoi is always pronounced /ɦɔi/ as far as I know. I am not aware of all Dutch accents in the Netherlands.

Hoi and ahoi are indeed related.
Source: Zoekresultaten


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