# Etymology of South Slavic golem/goljam



## Ben Jamin

I came across the Bulgarian word *goliam* and Croatian *golem*, and became curious about their origin (they are apparently cognates).
Can anyone help?


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## Unoverwordinesslogged

Hi BJ what do they mean?


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## Ben Jamin

Unoverwordinesslogged said:


> Hi BJ what do they mean?


Respectively vaste/large and big/large/heavy.


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## Unoverwordinesslogged

Ben Jamin said:


> Respectively vaste/large and big/large/heavy.



Thanks. Sorry can't shed any light on their etymologies other than not to forget a Turkish root.


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## bibax

Czech *holemý* (holem), Polish *golemszy*, Russian *голямый/галямый*, Protoslavic *golěmъ*, etc. (see Wiktionary: *голям*).

According to Václav Machek, _golem_ is cognate to Greek _μεγαλο-_.


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## Maroseika

According to Max Vasmer, this is the cognate of Lith. *galiù*, *galė́ti *(to be able to), *galià *(force), Irish *gal* (braveness).
According to the more contemporary Etymological Dictionary of Slavic Languages, Proto-Slavic **golěmъ *can be compared with Osci *valaimo *(the best) and Latin *volaemum *(sort of big pears), both - cognates of Latin *valere *- to cost.
Thus, Proto-Slavic **golěmъ* can be relict of the IE superlative, meaning "very big", "the most powerful" and might be formed according to the same semantic and morphological model: **gol-oi-mo* and **val-ai-mo*, by use of the superlative IE formant *-m-*.


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## Gavril

Maroseika said:


> According to the more contemporary Etymological Dictionary of Slavic Languages, Proto-Slavic **golěmъ *can be compared with Osci *valaimo *(the best) and Latin *volaemum *(sort of big pears), both - cognates of Latin *valere *- to cost.



How does this dictionary explain the correspondence of Slavic _g_- to Italic _v_-?

This correspondence would make sense if the original consonant was **gW* -- eg. Latin _*vor*are_ "to devour" : Slovene _*gr*lo_ "throat" -- but as far as I know, Latin _valere_ is from a root beginning in **w*-, and is cognate with Slovene _volja_ "will" and related Slavic terms.

The earlier etymology involving Lith. *galiù, galė́ti *and so on seems more convincing.


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## Maroseika

Gavril said:


> How does this dictionary explain the correspondence of Slavic _g_- to Italic _v_-?
> 
> This correspondence would make sense if the original consonant was **gW* -- eg. Latin _*vor*are_ "to devour" : Slovene _*gr*lo_ "throat" -- but as far as I know, Latin _valere_ is from a root beginning in **w*-, and is cognate with Slovene _volja_ "will" and related Slavic terms.
> 
> The earlier etymology involving Lith. *galiù, galė́ti *and so on seems more convincing.



I see now I was not distinct enough. No, they only compare semantics and morphology, they do not mean **golěmъ *and *valaimo* are cognates.


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## shawnee

Reminds me of Turkish, 'kocaman- very big. It appears in Greek as 'κοτζάμ'.


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## Ben Jamin

Thanks everybody!


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## Ben Jamin

bibax said:


> Czech *holemý* (holem), Polish *golemszy*, Russian *голямый/галямый*, Protoslavic *golěmъ*, etc. (see Wiktionary: *голям*).
> 
> According to Václav Machek, _golem_ is cognate to Greek _μεγαλο-_.



I have read quite many old Polish texts (XV-XVI century) but never met the word *golemszy*. Where did you find it? 
After a reflection I think that *głęboki* may be a cognate.


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## Pribina

Ben Jamin said:


> After a reflection I think that *głęboki* may be a cognate.



Skok's etymological dictionary of Croatian and Serbian has *glibok* under the _dubok_ lemma (glibok is a western variant, both mean the same – deep), and claims that the word came about under the influence of _glib_, which means _mud_ (glib, zaglibiti).


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## bibax

Ben Jamin said:


> I have read quite many old Polish texts (XV-XVI century) but never met the word *golemszy*. Where did you find it?


Václav Machek - Etymologický slovník jazyka českého:
- in Old Polish *golemszy* ment větší (bigger, comparative).

Also in the Bulgarian version of Wiktionary (google „wiktionary голям"):


> Етимология
> 
> старобълг. *голѣмъ* μέγας (Номоканон, ХІІІ в.), сръб. _голем_, пол. стар. _holemy_ „много голям“, словен. _holmeš_ „огромен“, старопол. _golemszy_ (1592 г.), старочеш. _holemý _„голям“, диал. _halama_ „мъжага“, старорус. *голѣмыи* „голям, висок“ (ХІІ в.), рус. диал._голямый, галямый_ „висок, кльощав, дългокрак“, _галяма, голяма_ „множество, куп; (наречие) извънредно много“. Праслав. *golěmъ.


The theory that **golěmъ *​is a cognate of the Greek megalo- is from Lingua posnaniensis - Orębski (according to Machek).


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## mataripis

Tagalog word for deep is lalim and that golem was the result of heavy weight of an object note the sound nag pa ilalim ( pulled downward because of its wt) and go lem.( like english go to the lem or depth!) Are related.


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## sotos

Gavril said:


> Slovene _*gr*lo_ "throat"



I find this relevant to the thread only if we accept that _golem_ is cognate to Gr. _megalo_, after a transposition of a syllable.  If this is correct, then _grlo_ can be cognate to the Gr. _laryng-_ (λάρυγξ = throat).


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## Ben Jamin

mataripis said:


> Tagalog word for deep is lalim and that golem was the result of heavy weight of an object note the sound nag pa ilalim ( pulled downward because of its wt) and go lem.( like english go to the lem or depth!) Are related.


What relevance has this information for this thread?


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## mataripis

Not found in books.the weight of an object usually pull down by gravity. Golem- english/greek "go"/mega + austronesian tl "lalem"(depth) formed a slavic word  Golem. The weight of an object.


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## origumi

I wonder whether the medieval mythical creature Golem in the Jewish culture is a merger of Biblical Hebrew golem (shapeless mass) with the Slavic term discussed in this thread (large).


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## Ben Jamin

mataripis said:


> Not found in books.the weight of an object usually pull down by gravity. Golem- english/greek "go"/mega + austronesian tl "lalem"(depth) formed a slavic word  Golem. The weight of an object.


What kind of joke is this?


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## Ben Jamin

origumi said:


> I wonder whether the medieval mythical creature Golem in the Jewish culture is a merger of Biblical Hebrew golem (shapeless mass) with the Slavic term discussed in this thread (large).


I think that we have no clues to suppose so, unless you can show that the legend of Golem was conceived by Jews living in the countries where South Slavic was spoken. The word golem/goljam (big) is unknown in Polish and Ukrainian where most of the Ashkenazi Jews lived.


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## Ben Jamin

mataripis said:


> Not found in books.the weight of an object usually pull down by gravity. Golem- english/greek "go"/mega + austronesian tl "lalem"(depth) formed a slavic word  Golem. The weight of an object.


Have you tried to find explanations in Basque, Nahuatl and Inuit? Maybe you'll find something there too.


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