# Stress on words



## panjabigator

In Spanish, the natural stress on a word falls on the penultimate syllable, unless it ends in an N or S.

example:  
lleno (stress on the e)
gota (on the o)
bastante (on the second a)

when the accent is on spoken on an alternate syllable, an accent mark is written there.  

I realize this is an incomplete summary on accents in Spanish, but can someone tell me what it is in Catalan?  And how do 

Thanks!


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## Cracker Jack

In Catalan, the orthography rules in placing accents nearly approximates that of Spanish. However, there are differences. The words are divided into at least 3 groups:

1. aguda - the tonic syllable is the last one. The words that bear accents are those that end in a, e, i, o, u, as, es, is, os, us, en and in.

petó
algú
París
català
anglès
matí
conclusió


2. plana - the tonic syllable is the the penultimate. Words that bear accents are those that do not end in the terminations in rule 1.

préssec
micròfon
telèfon
àlbum
desèrtic

3. esdrúixola - the tonic syllable is the third from the last. All words of this type are accented. The is also sobreesdrúixola in which the tonic syllable comes before the esdrúixola. They are also accented.

mètode
família
dinàmica
polícia

a - always bears open accent à
i - always bears closed accent í
u - always bears closed accent ú

Words ending in ia such as dia are counted as 2 syllables di-a and don't get accented. This rule also applies to past imperfect havia, deia, feia. All nouns that end in o (aguda) bear closed accent ó. Most words ending in 
e and o (planes i esdrúixoles) bear open accent.

For other rules, let's hear them from Catalans. Hope this suffices.


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## betulina

Ah, ok, I hadn't understood Panjabigator's question. 

Cracker Jack explained it really well!!  Only that _policia_ is "plana" and it doesn't have an accent.



> Words ending in ia such as dia are counted as 2 syllables di-a and don't get accented. This rule also applies to past imperfect havia, deia, feia.


This is because ia, ie, io, ua, ue and uo are not diphthongs except when they are after a Q or a G ("aguantar", "quota") or after another vowel ("deia", "feia"), in which case they behave as a semi-consonant or semi-vowel.



> All nouns that end in o (aguda) bear closed accent ó. Most words ending in e and o (planes i esdrúixoles) bear open accent.


Well, if it is "plana" then the ending vowel does not bear any accent. But I had never realised it happens with "esdrúixoles"! 

Salut!


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## Cracker Jack

betulina said:
			
		

> Ah, ok, I hadn't understood Panjabigator's question.
> 
> Cracker Jack explained it really well!!  Only that _policia_ is "plana" and it doesn't have an accent.
> 
> 
> 
> Salut!


 
Oh Gee!!!  Yes, you are right. Policia is not accented.  Thanks a lot for the reminder. You are really an angel.


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## panjabigator

Do Spanish speakers who have learned Catalan ever place the stress on the wrong syllable, due to their knowledge of Spanish?


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## betulina

I suppose it depends on the writer. Actually there are few differences in accentuation between Catalan and Spanish. 
In the general rule, Spanish do stress "agudas" ended in vowel, S and N, while Catalan does in the ones ended in vowel, S and EN and IN (no AN, ON, UN).
The other difference is the diphthongs, and therefore, their accentuation. 

So, if you are either a Spanish speaker who have learned Catalan or a Catalan native speaker writing in Spanish you just must bear in mind these differences.


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## Cracker Jack

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Do Spanish speakers who have learned Catalan ever place the stress on the wrong syllable, due to their knowledge of Spanish?


 
Yes they do.  But if their level is intermediate to advance (300 - 400 hours), this will be corrected.  Native Spanish speakers who are in the beginner's level or low-intermediate level usually place the accent wrongly.  They usually place ´over a.  But in Catalan a always has `accent.  Also words like día, María and verbs in the imperfect such as venía are written as such.  But in Catalan they are not accented.

In Spanish Nuria is written as Nuría but in Catalan, it is Núria.  That's because it is syllabicated as Nu-ri-a.  And since it is esdrúola, it is accented on the 3rd to the last syllable.


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## Mei

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> In Spanish Nuria is written as Nuría but in Catalan, it is Núria.  That's because it is syllabicated as Nu-ri-a.  And since it is esdrúola, it is accented on the 3rd to the last syllable.



Nur*í*a??? Is this true??? I've never heard this before. I always heard "Núria" in catalan and "Nuria" in spanish. 

Mei


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## betulina

Mei said:
			
		

> Nur*í*a??? Is this true??? I've never heard this before. I always heard "Núria" in catalan and "Nuria" in spanish.
> 
> Mei



Nor have I, Mei. Cracker Jack, I think "Nuria" in Spanish is pronounced the same way as in Catalan, only that -ia is a diphthong in Spanish so the word is "plana" and it's not accented.


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## Cracker Jack

Mei said:
			
		

> Nur*í*a??? Is this true??? I've never heard this before. I always heard "Núria" in catalan and "Nuria" in spanish.
> 
> Mei


 


			
				betulina said:
			
		

> Nor have I, Mei. Cracker Jack, I think "Nuria" in Spanish is pronounced the same way as in Catalan, only that -ia is a diphthong in Spanish so the word is "plana" and it's not accented.


 
You know what after reading your replies I realized I got it all mixed-up.  I was thinking about the name María in Spanish which is Maria in Catalan.  Unwittingly, I wrote Nuría instead of María.  Thanks a lot for the reminders.  It should be Nuria in Spanish and not Nuría as I stated.


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## Mei

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> You know what after reading your replies I realized I got it all mixed-up.  I was thinking about the name María in Spanish which is Maria in Catalan.  Unwittingly, I wrote Nuría instead of María.  Thanks a lot for the reminders.  It should be Nuria in Spanish and not Nuría as I stated.



Aaahh ok, yes, Maria (catalan); María (spanish). 

Mei


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## panjabigator

So where does the accent fall in Maria in Catalan?  Would there be a diphtongization?


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## panjabigator

I see that the word would be plana...in Spanish, the I and U are weak...


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## betulina

panjabigator said:
			
		

> So where does the accent fall in Maria in Catalan?  Would there be a diphtongization?



In the Catalan "Maria" the accent falls on the I. It's "plana", yes, like in Spanish: Ma-ri-a. So, as it is plana ended by a vowel, it's not accented. There is no diphtong (-ia- is not a diphtong)

In Spanish it's also Ma-rí-a, it's plana ended by a vowel and it should not be accented, but it is to "break" the diphthong -ia.


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## panjabigator

I see...so it has the same pronounciation.


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## betulina

panjabigator said:
			
		

> I see...so it has the same pronounciation.



It has regarding stress, but not regarding the pronounciation of the A, because in Catalan it's a "shwa" sound (in most dialects, at least), and in Spanish it's a clear A. But, of course, it's very subtle.


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## panjabigator

I need to study some more!!  Thanks for the questions!


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## panjabigator

betulina said:


> It has regarding stress, but not regarding the pronounciation of the A, because in Catalan it's a "shwa" sound (in most dialects, at least), and in Spanish it's a clear A. But, of course, it's very subtle.



Does my mouth open wider to create this shwa sound?


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## ampurdan

The "schwa" sound in the last "a" of "Maria" is very, very close, if not the same, to the sound an English-speaker produces when he pronounces "María", knowing nothing about Spanish.

Anyway, this is a characteristic of the area of a part of Tarragona, Barcelona, Girona, Perpignan and the Balearic Islands, I think. In Valencia, Alghero and Lleida, they pronounce "a" as Spanish "a".


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## News

ampurdan said:


> The "schwa" sound in the last "a" of "Maria" is very, very close, if not the same, to the sound an English-speaker produces when he pronounces "María", knowing nothing about Spanish.
> 
> Anyway, this is a characteristic of the area of a part of Tarragona, Barcelona, Girona, Perpignan and the Balearic Islands, I think. In Valencia, Alghero and Lleida, they pronounce "a" as Spanish "a".


 
Well, may I disagree a little: the pronunciation of the last "a" of Maria in Lleida wouldn't be like the Spanish "a", it would be like the "a" of the English word "bad", am I wrong?


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## ampurdan

News said:


> Well, may I disagree a little: the pronunciation of the last "a" of Maria in Lleida wouldn't be like the Spanish "a", it would be like the "a" of the English word "bad", am I wrong?


 
You're right, I stand corrected. However, I think it is the English sound of "bed", Catalan "è", rather.


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## ernest_

Hello,



> Well, may I disagree a little: the pronunciation of the last "a" of Maria in Lleida wouldn't be like the Spanish "a", it would be like the "a" of the English word "bad", am I wrong?


The vowel in 'bad' is a TRAP vowel (IPA: /æ/) that doesn't exist in Romance languages.
The two 'a' vowels in Maria (in Catalan pronunciation) are two 'schwa' vowels (IPA: /ə/), that is exactly the same central unstressed vowel as in 'obtain' (IPA: /əb ˈteɪn/) or 'doctor' (IPA: /ˈdɒk tə/), the most common sound in English. I think that the Catalan pronunciation of 'Maria' is the same as the English one, except for the 'r' sound (single alveolar flap) that doesn't exist in Standard British English or American English. However if you speak American English you'll find that this 'r' is very similar to your pronunciation of intervocalic 't', as in 'better'.


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## Outsider

panjabigator said:


> Does my mouth open wider to create this shwa sound?


Do you know the song _Maria_, by the British American band Blondie? The singer pronounces the first 'a' in the word as in Catalan. (She pronounces the second 'a' more like in Spanish, at least in the chorus.)


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## ampurdan

Ernest, en News parlava de la pronunciació de la zona de Lleida (o Lleidè ).


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## ernest_

Havia vist que parlava de la pronunciació de Lleida, el que no sabia era que en la pronunciació occidental també canvien les as. Em creia que només afectava les es i les os, però veig que no. Llavors, en aquests dialectes diuen 'Maria' igual que en castellà?


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## ampurdan

No, precisament, les "a" en posició àtona a final de paraula les pronuncien com una "è" oberta, però no en tot l'àmbit del català occidental, només a la zona de Lleida, crec. La resta d'"a" en posició àtona crec que les pronuncien com a "a", no n'estic del tot segur.


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## News

Exacte, en català occidental les "a" àtones també canvien, però a mi em segueix semblant un so més proper a l'anglès "bad" (una barreja de "a" i "è") que al so de "bed", que és la nostra "è" oberta.

Bé, hi ha un humorista (o algo similar, perquè a i no m'agrada gaire) que es diu Cartanyà i que exagera erròniament les "a" perquè sembli català occidental, però fa "e", enlloc de "a".

De totes formes, no estic segura de la pronunciació de l'anglès "bad", perquè jo estic molt acostumada a l'accent americà i potser varia una mica del britànic...


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