# Prendere due piccioni con una fava



## lunagirl

l'ho incontrata in un libro, ma non ha senso. Non penso che sta parlando degli uccelli (i piccioni). Allora, che cosa puo significare?
il contesto e questo (o qualcosa del genere):" La invitai alla piscina e pensai a prendere anche due piccioni con una fava, per farla sentirsi di piu a suo agio"


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## winnie

prendere due piccioni con una fava = ottenere più cose contemporaneamente


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## ikester

winnie said:
			
		

> prendere due piccioni con una fava = ottenere più cose contemporaneamente


In English, we'd say _to kill two birds with one stone._

ciao!


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## Silvia

Ciao lunagirl,

utilizza per favore l'utile strumento di ricerca di WordReference (search tool), prima di aprire una discussione su un argomento.

Avresti trovato la risposta qui


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## Alfry

giocc said:
			
		

> (prendere) due piccioni con una fava


 
solo per dovere di precisione:

to kill two birds with one stone.

EDIT: This thread was split from here. Jana


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## Artrella

giocc said:
			
		

> "...e si la ho risposto": non capisco, "si" intendi "yes" o riflessivo? Comunque non è corretto;
> Ciao



Si Giocc, intendevo riflessivo come in spagnolo [ella me hizo una pregunta y  yo *se* la contesté]  Se t'interessa,  la frase in spagnolo è "matar dos pájaros de un tiro"


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## giocc

Grazie Alfry ed Artrella... così adesso l'ho imparato sia in Inglese che in Spagnolo! Altri due piccioni... con la stessa fava? 
Ciao


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

A proposito sapete come si traduce "prendere 2 piccioni con una fava"

Provo a sparare a caso (non sghignazzate  !  ):

solve 2 problems in one shot 
shoot 2 problems at the same time 
??????????????????????


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## pwa

We commonly say, "To kill two birds with one stone"....very similar to the Italian...


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Ah very interesting!

Do you also have, by any chance, an image less "cruenta" (bloody?) for the same concept? I would like to use it in a serious context and the image of killing anything isn't perhaps very appropriate. 

thank you!


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## carrickp

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Ah very interesting!
> 
> Do you also have, by any chance, an image less "cruenta" (bloody?) for the same concept? I would like to use it in a serious context and the image of killing anything isn't perhaps very appropriate.
> 
> thank you!



"Kill two birds with one stone" is so much an idiom that no one thinks about what it really means. You can use it in just about any context.

You also could say "get double the effect" from something, I suppose, or "make something serve two masters," "make something serve double duty" or something similar.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Very nice. Thank you very much indeed !!


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## pwa

Carrickp is right. Even we peace-nik, vegetarian types use it without hesitation. And, really, it has the exact same meaning as "prendere due piccioni con una fava".   

By the way...what are you going to do with those pigeons?  Kill them and eat them, maybe?


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Nope.
I'm just feeding them   !

-tommaso


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Ah very interesting!
> 
> Do you also have, by any chance, an image less "cruenta" (bloody?) for the same concept? I would like to use it in a serious context and the image of killing anything isn't perhaps very appropriate.
> 
> thank you!


You could say "Hit two flies with one swatter", which, even tho' involves killing something, would probably be less offensive to most people.


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Ah very interesting!
> 
> Do you also have, by any chance, an image less "cruenta" (bloody?) for the same concept? I would like to use it in a serious context and the image of killing anything isn't perhaps very appropriate.
> 
> thank you!


"Achieve two things with one stroke" means the same thing, but isn't very often used.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I like these one (or these ones?) also.

Anything containg "shot" or "shooting" ?


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I like these one (or these ones?) also.
> 
> Anything containg "shot" or "shooting" ?


I thought you wanted something less bloody.  The Chinese have a saying, "To kill two hawks with one arrow", but it doesn't involve a gun, if that's what you wanted.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

yes I has in mind something like shoot problems, difficulties,  (not necessarily animals), provide solutions, ...

It's surprising how in different countries we want to kill different animals with different weapons!



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I thought you wanted something less bloody. The Chinese have a saying, "To kill two hawks with one arrow", but it doesn't involve a gun, if that's what you wanted.


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## la reine victoria

I suggest '*solve two problems at once'* which is often used in England instead of 'kill two birds with one stone'


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## You little ripper!

"Accomplish two objectives with one action".


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## You little ripper!

"Solve two problems with one idea".  Now I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel!


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

This one is simple and does not convey any bad intention. I think "che sia molto ben spendibile" (?)



			
				la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I suggest '*solve two problems at once'* which is often used in England instead of 'kill two birds with one stone'


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Eh si', stai proprio raschiando il fondo del barile!

Thanks!!



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> "Solve two problems with one idea". Now I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel!


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I like these one (or these ones?) also.
> 
> Anything containing "shot" or "shooting" ?


"I like this one" (singular) or "I like these/these ones" (plural).


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Anyway, now that I think about it, it's weird how to take 2 pigeons with one bean is so much easy than 'kill two birds with one stone' or "To kill two hawks with one arrow" and does not require that much effort and precision. Could it be because we Italians are much more lazy people?


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## carrickp

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Anyway, now that I think about it, it's weird how to take 2 pigeons with one bean is so much easy than 'kill two birds with one stone' or "To kill two hawks with one arrow" and does not require that much effort and precision. Could it be because we Italians are much more lazy people?



The irregular shape of a fava bean would make accurate marksmanship very difficult. The Italian pigeon-slayer who succeds with such armament has nothing for which to apologize to wielders of rifles and bows, and, rather, should be the subject of admiration.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

No I think you are misunderstunding the meaning of the saying
(or am I?).

The fava bean is not used to hit pigeons! We just leave the bean on the
ground, and wait for pigeons to come eat.

I think nobody would think you can hit birds with beans...  !!  


[or have I misundestood the proverb in all my life?
It can happen: I know people that think "E' più facile che un cammello passi per la cruna di un ago, che un ricco entri ..."
is referring to a camel!!!!!!!  ]


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## radiation woman

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> [or have I misundestood the proverb in all my life?
> It can happen: I know people that think "E' più facile che un cammello passi per la cruna di un ago, che un ricco entri ..."
> is referring to a camel!!!!!!!  ]


 
What is it referring to then, if it's not a camel?  In English the proverb does refer to a camel, although apparently in the original Greek the text was ambiguous and may have been referring to one of the city gates which had a name something like "needle".


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:Ce20EGgclvgJ:www.icaroweb.it/index.php%3Fexec%3Dmedia/curioso/index.php%26id%3D16%26param%3D1+dizionario+cammello+significato&hl=it

"
20. Nel Vangelo di San Matteo si legge "É piú facile che un *cammello*
passi dalla cruna di un ago, che un ricco entri nel regno dei Cieli".
In realtá San Gerolamo, che tradusse dal greco al latino il testo,
interpretó la parola "kamelos" come "*cammello*", mentre l'esatto *significato*
é "grossa
fune utilizzata per l'attracco delle navi". Il senso della frase resta
sostanzialmente lo stesso, ma acquista molta piú coerenza. A parte ció, si
spiega perché gli scaricatori del porto di Genova si chiamano "CAMALLI".
"


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:Ce20EGgclvgJ:www.icaroweb.it/index.php%3Fexec%3Dmedia/curioso/index.php%26id%3D16%26param%3D1+dizionario+cammello+significato&hl=it
> 
> "
> 20. Nel Vangelo di San Matteo si legge "É piú facile che un *cammello*
> passi dalla cruna di un ago, che un ricco entri nel regno dei Cieli".
> In realtá San Gerolamo, che tradusse dal greco al latino il testo,
> interpretó la parola "kamelos" come "*cammello*", mentre l'esatto *significato*
> é "grossa
> fune utilizzata per l'attracco delle navi". Il senso della frase resta
> sostanzialmente lo stesso, ma acquista molta piú coerenza. A parte ció, si
> spiega perché gli scaricatori del porto di Genova si chiamano "CAMALLI".
> "


That is very interesting. I had (past tense) a very strict religious upbringing (Jehovah's Witness) and I didn't even know that.


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## radiation woman

Purtroppo il mio computer non mi porta al sito web che hai voluto inserire. Comunque  grazie della tua spiegazione.  Molto interessante.  Vuol dire che c'e' piu' di un'interpretazione di questo provverbio allora perche' io avevo trovato quella che avevo scritto prima su un commentario bibblico.


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> No I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the saying
> (or am I?).
> 
> The fava bean is not used to hit pigeons! We just leave the bean on the
> ground, and wait for pigeons to come eat.
> 
> I think nobody would think you can hit birds with beans...  !!
> 
> 
> [or have I misunderstood the proverb in all my life?
> It can happen: I know people that think "E' più facile che un cammello passi per la cruna di un ago, che un ricco entri ..."
> is referring to a camel!!!!!!!  ]


That actually sounds more logical to me.  I presume the fava bean has to be fresh.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Non so... sarebbe interessante approfondire la cosa...



			
				radiation woman said:
			
		

> Purtroppo il mio computer non mi porta al sito web che hai voluto inserire. Comunque grazie della tua spiegazione. Molto interessante. Vuol dire che c'e' piu' di un'interpretazione di questo provverbio allora perche' io avevo trovato quella che avevo scritto prima su un commentario bibblico.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Don't know, perhaps pigeons prefer dried fruit !?

PS
in some dialectal use, "fava" can also refer to male member (can I say that?)  [penis].
Some others have the expression "mangiare il pecorino con la fava"
Last day a friend was telling an amusing misundestanding when a person was inviting another one to eat the pecorino con la fava, and the other one (his boss) was interpreting the fava as penis. It came out a very funny situation... 



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> That actually sounds more logical to me. I presume the fava bean has to be fresh.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

By the way...
it's very beautiful the way you put it. I really would like to be able to write that way.

tommaso


			
				carrickp said:
			
		

> The irregular shape of a fava bean would make accurate marksmanship very difficult. The Italian pigeon-slayer who succeds with such armament has nothing for which to apologize to wielders of rifles and bows, and, rather, should be the subject of admiration.


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## DAH

twofold

you will have a twofold solution with one ____


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## carrickp

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> The fava bean is not used to hit pigeons! We just leave the bean on the
> ground, and wait for pigeons to come eat.
> 
> I think nobody would think you can hit birds with beans...  !!



Well, that shows you how permeated with violence our American culture finds itself -- it never would have _occurred_ to me that the bean was for something other than shooting the pigeons. But now I have to ask you why you want the pigeons if you aren't going to shoot them? And why use favas rather than, say, breadcrumbs? I have this image of a little old lady sitting on a park bench scattering favas for the birds, and her children crying because she doesn't make them into soup -- or even bring home a pigeon for the pot.

On the camel thing, I always understood there was a gate in the wall of Jerusalem that was so narrow it was called "The Eye of the Needle." A camel could barely get through it -- only with great difficulty and only if all the luggage was removed. The notion was that a rich person, like the camel, would have to give up his possessions to get into heaven.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I guess one could get them for taking company. Children would like to play with pigeons...

By the way the "camel" question is interesting. It seem there are various interpretation about what it is meant. I think that since we are talking about a needle, the most natural would be something thread-like, but much bigger, like a rope...

Also if it where a gate, it would seem that just getting rid of some luggage a rich could anyway get into heaven, and that would not be hard since it is supposed that there you don't need any luggage ...  



			
				carrickp said:
			
		

> Well, that shows you how permeated with violence our American culture finds itself -- it never would have _occurred_ to me that the bean was for something other than shooting the pigeons. But now I have to ask you why you want the pigeons if you aren't going to shoot them? And why use favas rather than, say, breadcrumbs? I have this image of a little old lady sitting on a park bench scattering favas for the birds, and her children crying because she doesn't make them into soup -- or even bring home a pigeon for the pot.
> 
> On the camel thing, I always understood there was a gate in the wall of Jerusalem that was so narrow it was called "The Eye of the Needle." A camel could barely get through it -- only with great difficulty and only if all the luggage was removed. The notion was that a rich person, like the camel, would have to give up his possessions to get into heaven.


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## ElaineG

> But now I have to ask you why you want the pigeons if you aren't going to shoot them?


 
I agree; although I always knew you were enticing the pigeons with the fava rather than shooting them with it, I always assumed that after you lured them to your front yard, you wrung their necks while they were busy eating the fava and popped them in the oven.

Tommasso's suggestion that you would take in the pigeons for company, is quite creative, but seems a bit far-fetched!


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

This one is elegant.

Can I also say "doing that ... we will achieve a twofold objective"



			
				DAH said:
			
		

> twofold
> 
> you will have a twofold solution with one ____


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## Gianni2

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Eh si', stai proprio raschiando il fondo del barile!
> 
> Thanks!!


 
Somewhat similar is "Get two for the price of one."


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## DAH

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> This one is elegant.
> 
> Can I also say "doing that ... we will achieve a twofold objective"


 


sì, è giusto.

prego!


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## radiation woman

carrickp said:
			
		

> On the camel thing, I always understood there was a gate in the wall of Jerusalem that was so narrow it was called "The Eye of the Needle." A camel could barely get through it -- only with great difficulty and only if all the luggage was removed. The notion was that a rich person, like the camel, would have to give up his possessions to get into heaven.


 
Thank you Carrickp. This is the explanation I read but it was many years ago so I couldn't remember all the details.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Diciamo che è come un film che non si sa come va a finire!

Effettivamente una volta io ho catturato nel mio giardino due merli mettendo un pezzetto di pane ed una cassettina con un filo. Ma l'ho fatto solo per sfida, non mi ha mai sfiorato l'idea di mangiarmeli. Infatti li ho lasciati immediatamente dopo. 
E devo dire che mi pare abbiano imparato perche' successivamente si sono ben guardati dall'avvicinarsi. Solo qualche anno dopo una famigliola e' venuta a rifare il nido nella nostra siepe...   Ora abbiamo rifatto pace.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> I agree; although I always knew you were enticing the pigeons with the fava rather than shooting them with it, I always assumed that after you lured them to your front yard, you wrung their necks while they were busy eating the fava and popped them in the oven.
> 
> Tommasso's suggestion that you would take in the pigeons for company, is quite creative, but seems a bit far-fetched!


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## radiation woman

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Diciamo che è come un film che non si sa come va a finire!
> 
> Effettivamente una volta io ho catturato nel mio giardino due merli mettendo un pezzetto di pane ed una cassettina con un filo. Ma l'ho fatto solo per sfida, non mi ha mai sfiorato l'idea di mangiarmeli. Infatti li ho lasciati immediatamente dopo.


 
What a curious story!  It's nice to see that not all Italians are quick to wring animals' necks!


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