# Turkish etymology of a toponym in Northern Greece



## DrKameleon

Hi guys!

So, here I am and with a very interesting challenge for all of you...

There is a village in Drama (Eastern Macedonia) called "Mikrokampos" (Μικρόκαμπος), in Greek. Ιn English, this cοuld be roughly translated and... dissected as: "small" (μικρός - mikros) + "plain/flat" (κάμπος - kampos).

Now, here's the interesting twist: This village has been inhabited, since early 20th century, by Pontic Greek/Turkish-speaking immigrants coming from Northern Turkey and the shores of the Black Sea. The village's initial name - at least in its Greek transliteration - was: *mikro Sivindrik(i) *("mikro" meaning - same as above - "small"). It is also possible that the "v" sound is an "l" sound, although this has not been verified.

_Now, it's interesting to note here that there is also an exact counterpart, namely "Megalo Sivindrik" (nowadays called "Megalokampos" - or "big plain"), leading me to believe that "sivindrik", or whatever it is that it comes from, actually represents something meaningful - most likely a noun, or a compound noun._

So... my question is, this last word being most definitely of Turkish origin: What can it possibly mean? Does it remind you of something?

Locals say it may have something to do with: "flood", "water", "swamp" or even an "earthquake" - though I can honestly find no direct connection whatsoever with any of these.

I've also spotted a Bulgarian linguist - my only semi-official source so far - tracing the root back to the greek island of Samothrace (Semadirek) - which after being adopted by the Bulgarians, later found its way into the Greek language and used by the local population. (Well, if you ask me, this explanation sounds a bit far-fetched to me, since I can find no relation between any of the parts in question - historically or geographically speaking)

_[...] Според Йордан Н. Иванов името Семендрик е турски изговор на името Самотраки [...]_​
However, manually going through a rather long and comprehensive list of roots (and, unfortunately, without speaking Turkish myself - other than having a general feel for it and some grasp of the grammar), I must admit I haven't come up with any... significant results.

Basically, all I've discovered can be summed up to this rather brief list of (possible) stems:

sıvı = liquid, fluid, watery
seviye/seviyeli = flat, plain
şev = slope
diri = alive
direk = pole, mast
Am I any close? Or is any of those even correct?

What would you suggest? I'm literally all ears! ;-)


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## maxguncel

It reminds me of "sevindirik" which is state of exultation.


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## DrKameleon

maxguncel said:


> It reminds me of "sevindirik" which is state of exultation.


Hmm... That's an interesting approach. I'll look into it!


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## sound shift

A Facebook page that I found lists current and former toponyms in the 'province' (my word; possibly not the correct term) of Thessaloniki. It says that Megalokampos was formerly called _Golemo Sivindrik_. This Wikipedia page says the same thing, but also says that _Golemo Sivindrik _is a Slavic name.


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## DrKameleon

sound shift said:


> A Facebook page that I found lists current and former toponyms in the 'province' (my word; possibly not the correct term) of Thessaloniki. It says that Megalokampos was formerly called _Golemo Sivindrik_. I don't know if that helps.



Well, thanks! I've noticed that too, but I don't think it helps a lot, since it's basically the slavic equivalent of the exact same word I'm trying to figure out...


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## sound shift

So _Golemo _means "big", just like "megalo". I can see that that doesn't help you a lot.


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## DrKameleon

sound shift said:


> So _Golemo _means "big", just like "megalo". I can see that that doesn't help you a lot.


Yep, exactly. 

Although some exchange of ideas never hurts! ;-)


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## vynym

Xaxa, ola autia file?
Loipon.. the words are correct. Something comes to my mind, which seems like Silindirik (if you change v to l) (cylinder shaped) but still doesn't sound a proper name for a village.


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## DrKameleon

vynym said:


> Xaxa, ola autia file?
> Loipon.. the words are correct. Something comes to my mind, which seems like Silindirik (if you change v to l) (cylinder shaped) but still doesn't sound a proper name for a village.




Haha... İyi akşamlar! And thanks for the input! ;-)

Now, the truth is I've come to that root too (silindrik = cylindrical) and weirdly so there are some locals who insist the actual name was just like that (meaning: with an "L" instead of a "V").

However, what can I say... it most definitely doesn't hit me as a proper name for a village either. Not to mention that there is nothing cylindrical, circular or whatever about it... haha

_P.S. Something meaning perhaps... a "perfect square" would fit better for sure, unless the first settlers did it on purpose and with some sense of humour! lol -- See attached screenshot of what it looks like in Google Maps.
_


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## vynym

Έλα ρε με μπέρδεψες τώρα! I thought that the name of the village has been changed by Pontic immigrants when they migrated there after the population exchange.


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## DrKameleon

vynym said:


> Έλα ρε με μπέρδεψες τώρα! I thought that the name of the village has been changed by Pontic immigrants when they migrated there after the population exchange.



(Haha - that sounded very "natural". Do you speak greek?)

Now, look: as I said, I'm not from there. My gf is. (My "village" is Piraeus @ Athens - so, no big story to uncover there lol).

All I know is based on things the locals know (and she has heard) and on linguistics, that's all. As for the historical part, those areas before the Balkan Wars were - obviously - Turkish. Then, they suddenly became part of the Greek Kingdom. However, the inhabitants there - if any (estimates say there might have been like 10 people there. I don't know whether that qualifies as a "village") - were mostly Bulgarian-speaking or Roma. So, yes, you're correct: it's the Greek pontic settlers (actually populations that came from Turkey and that the greek state wouldn't mind at all if they relocated to the newly-claimed land - you know what I mean) that named the village with whatever name it had.

Now, the tricky point here is: although most "Pontic greek" people did speak Pontic greek - and were thus greek-speaking at some extent (I assure you, to me, modern Pontic greek sounds almost incomprehensible at times lol) - the settlers of that specific village were considered "Greeks" (probably just the religion? - a very common "indicator" throughout history I guess...), but they were from Sinop. And, according to my research, it's not 100% sure whether they even spoke greek. I believe all they knew was turkish (with a mix of pontic elements? but still Turkish).


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## vynym

ναι βρε μιλάω ελληνικά  μένεις Granada? qué bueno!

so, I don't know how you can figure it out but if we can find a list of villages in 1922, it may happen.
another name came to my mind "Sevindik", also it is a surname, means "we became happy."


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## DrKameleon

vynym said:


> ναι βρε μιλάω ελληνικά  μένεις Granada? qué bueno!



Impressed. Ναι, μένω Ισπανία - και, ναι, αξίζει τον κόπο! 

Hasta luego!


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