# Ток



## ThomasK

May I just ask whether you can use words based on the root/ noun "ток" metaphorically? Do you have derivations (or compounds) for example that have a "non-flow/..." meaning?


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## Maroseika

Can you specify what exactly you mean? And what ток you mean - liquid or air stream/flowing or electrical current or course of time or anything else?


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## kngram

ThomasK said:


> May I just ask whether you can use words based on the root/ noun "ток" metaphorically? Do you have derivations (or compounds) for example that have a "non-flow/..." meaning?


If you mean "ток-шоу", it is not a metaphor. This is a calque from English word 'talk-show. "


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## ThomasK

I meant the "root meaning", or what I guess is the root meaning: something like flowing, I guess, like liquid stream/flowling as you suggest. I think the other meanings you mention are basically (not in the literary sense) metaphorical in the Lakoff/Johnson sense: *conceptual metaphors*. based on the idea of flowing or streaming (and containing the linguistic root). 
I mean: I suppose the idea of water flowing is "extended into" *power flow (*electricity), or the *course (running) of time*. I could imagine there are more: 
- like for example "current affairs" maybe, or
-.can one be in a mental _tok (flow)_? 
- maybe also: speaking fluently...
Does all this clarify what I mean? Thanks in advance!


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> I suppose the idea of water flowing is "extended into" *power flow (*electricity), or the *course (running) of time*. I could imagine there are more. Like for example "current affairs" maybe.


Yes, текущие дела/события is widely used (coll. текучка - routine/trivia of life).



> Can one be in a mental _tok (flow)_? Any other, like derivations? Maybe also: speaking fluently...


No, "speak fluently" - говорить бегло (<бег).
"Mental flow" - поток мыслей.

But what do you mean by "non-flow"?


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## Awwal12

On a sidenote, -tok- participates in the PIE ablaut alteration with -tek- (which occurs more often and undergoes further Slavic and exclusively Russian alterations: -tech-, -tyok-). -tok- also historically alterated with -toch- on the Slavic level, but here the semantic link was broken (cf. tochít' - to sharpen).


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## Narkom

*course (running) of time*
Течение времени (passing of time)
Идти против течения (To go against the stream)
Плыть по течению (go with the flow*) *
Поток слов (flood of words)


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## Narkom

Maroseika said:


> Mental flow" - поток мыслей.


*Ход мыслей* используется чаще.


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## ThomasK

@Narkom, @Maroseika: thanks a lot; So I gather we have two roots for running: /Ход/  and /течени.../ -- and бег, as Maroseika pointed out. G Translate does translate *Ход мыслей* as a reasoning (literally _reasoning walk_ in Dutch) and gives me an inf. for running,  ходить, but is there one for the other - or is it no longer in use? (That reminded me that course/ cursus/курс refer to running (currere in Latin), which I had not realized so far.à

@Awwal12 : thanks for that information. Very interesting to notice that "semantic links can be broken". Could I call it "a semantic shift"?

Non-flow: I meant a root that is not semantically linked to running, flowing, or something like that...


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> @Awwal12 : thanks for that information. Very interesting to notice that "semantic links can be broken". Could I call it "a semantic shift"?


Rather a chain of semantic shifts breaking any transparent associations between the words.


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## ThomasK

Aha, a chain. Something like a gradual shift, I suppose...


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## Narkom

ThomasK said:


> G Translate does translate *Ход мыслей* as a reasoning (literally _reasoning walk_ in Dutch) and gives me an inf. for running, ходить, but is there one for the other - or is it no longer in use? (That reminded me that course/ cursus/курс refer to running (currere in Latin), which I had not realized so far.à


*Ход мыслей* is a _train of thought. _So your thoughts are running one after the other like carriages in a train.


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## ThomasK

I see. Some kind of chain, but the metaphor is one of a walk, is it?


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## Maroseika

Narkom said:


> *Ход мыслей* is a _train of thought. _So your thoughts are running one after the other like carriages in a train.


I understand this quite differently: ход мыслей is a _track _of thoughts.

- Я решил задачу, получается 28.
- Объясни свой ход мысли (explain _how _you came to this conslusion).


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## Narkom

ThomasK said:


> I see. Some kind of chain, but the metaphor is one of a walk, is it?


Yes, the metaphor is a "motion" of thoughts like
running,  walking or flowing.


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## Narkom

Maroseika said:


> I understand this quite differently: ход мыслей is a _track _of thoughts.
> 
> - Я решил задачу, получается 28.
> - Объясни свой ход мысли (explain _how _you came to this conslusion).


Yes,  a track yours thoughts moved along to come to this conclusion.
Here is another example,
_A knock at the door interrupted the train of his thoughts. _


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## ThomasK

As someone who knows no Russian but who is interested in how languages (and metaphors) work, I"s be interested in finding out where these nuances lie. A train of T implies moving and dragging, being chained one to the other; a track however is a trodden path or something the like, or the rail track, as far as I can see…


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## Narkom

*Ход* is also a _track_,  _direction_.
to follow the *track* of smb.'s thoughts ― следить за *ходом* чьих-л. мыслей
Note that a "motion" is still present, _follow the track_


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## ThomasK

I see now, but I really think "track" does not refer to movement, whereas following the track does - but that is what you mean, I suppose.


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