# Tamarro



## wild cat

qualcuno sa dirmi come tradurre "tamarro" in slang americano ho letto "yob" esiste qualche altro modo di dirlo?


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## lsp

Yob is definitely not American, it's the only thing I'm sure of, even though your question has been asked several times before. Maybe some newer members will have newer suggestions.

A yob is never used in AE, but it means a bully, toughguy, hooligan, ruffian, etc. 

Is tamarro closer to _that_ or to something more harmless, like a hick, bumpkin, peasant, hillbilly...?


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## moodywop

lsp said:
			
		

> Is tamarro closer to _that_ or to something more harmless, like a hick, bumpkin, peasant, hillbilly...?


 
Well done, Lsp, your second guess is dead right. I'm curious to hear from our friends in Northern Italy. In the South _tamarro _has practically supplanted _cafone. _In BE the adjective _naff(_a relatively recent word) would provide a good translation(_What are you doing with that gu? He's so naff!)._

Btw an American friend once showed me this amazing little dictionary of Italian slang written by an Italian research student based in the U.S. I can't recall the title but if you can get hold of it you'll be amazed. Not only is it fairly comprehensive but even provides etymologies(unusual in slang dictionaries). I remember looking up _tamarro - _it's derived from Arabic.


Carlo


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## Alfry

moodywop said:
			
		

> I'm curious to hear from our friends in Northern Italy. In the South _tamarro _has practically supplanted _cafone. _.
> 
> Carlo


 
I've rarely heard people using tamarro in Southern Italy, though.
I'd say never... but I've learned to never say "never"


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## moodywop

Alfry said:
			
		

> I've rarely heard people using tamarro in Southern Italy, though.
> I'd say never... but I've learned to never say "never"


 
Alfry

I can assure you we use it all the time. My generation use it, the kids at school use it. Are you talking about _meridionali _living in Milan or is your statement based on your trips to Southern Italy? I don't mean to pry - just curious about why our impressions differ so radically

PS And the branch of linguistics that most intrigues me is social/regional variation. There are lots of books/journals on this subject for English but very very little for Italian


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## Alfry

My impression is based on almost 30 years' experience in the South of Italy (the place of my birth). Maybe it depends on what part of the South we are talking about.


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## moodywop

Alfry said:
			
		

> My impression is based on almost 30 years' experience in the South of Italy (the place of my birth). Maybe it depends on what part of the South we are talking about.


 
Thanks, Alfry. Now I'm even more curious, though! I'll conduct a poll among the kids at school(Gragnano, near Naples). My seven nephews/nieces(15-28 age range) all use the word.

Your comment reminded me of the only serious flaw in the slang dictionary I recommended earlier - no regional labels, e.g. you would never know from the entry for _bischero _that it's only used in Tuscany


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## Alfry

moodywop said:
			
		

> Thanks, Alfry. Now I'm even more curious, though! I'll conduct a poll among the kids at school(Gragnano, near Naples). My seven nephews/nieces(15-28 age range) all use the word.
> 
> Your comment reminded me of the only serious flaw in the slang dictionary I recommended earlier - no regional labels, e.g. you would never know from the entry for _bischero _that it's only used in Tuscany


 
I agree!!!
We all know what it means but... how many times have you used it?

I've learned a lot of new things up here, new words, new expressions... and I'm not talking about academically
or of wordly knowledge... just a different way of living and expressing the things that I had learned in the South.
I think that I've learned a lot up here, I feel richer for that (not talking about money, though)


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## moodywop

Alfry said:
			
		

> I agree!!!
> I've learned a lot of new things up here, new words, new expressions... and I'm not talking about academically
> or of wordly knowledge... just a different way of living and expressing the things that I had learned in the South.
> I think that I've learned a lot up here, I feel richer for that (not talking about money, though)


 
Alfry

I'm on my way out and I'm leaving in a better mood thanks to you . I simply love what you wrote. I can tell you this - I know quite a few lecturers/professors teaching English at the university here. Few of them display the love for/sensitivity to language matters displayed in these forums. Their initial(if it was ever there) enthusiam has been replaced by careerism and cut-thoat competitiveness. Young Elisa here could teach them a thing or two about zest for knowledge!Not to mention the fun of it all.
OK I'll get off my pulpit now

see you all later


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## erick

Alfry said:
			
		

> I think that I've learned a lot up here, I feel richer for that (not talking about money, though)



I like what you say here and would like to ask a related question of how this can be expressed in Italian: to feel _rich_ or _wealthy_ in terms that are not material.  I like to explain things about life in English and illustrate them with expressions like, "to be _wealthy with experience_/friends/knowledge, not wealthy with money."  Would it make sense to say, "I want to be _rich with experience_" in Italian?  How can this be said in Italian?  Something like, "ricchezza di esperienza?"


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## Silvia

Sì, erick (ricco di esperienza, ricco di esperienze, ricchezza di esperienze), ma questo esula dal tema di questo thread!

Tornando alla parola tamarro, qui a Milano è ancora usata. Lsp ha fatto bene a fornire il link di un thread aperto precedentemente, spesso la discussione si disperde diventando frammentaria. Se possibile, è sempre meglio proseguire la discussione già iniziata, piuttosto che aprirne un'altra.

That's how I see it.


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## La Bionda

Ciao

Sorry for a really bad question but is tamarro a noun or an adjective? It was asked to be translated as noun (e.g. hillybilly - now there's a word that always makes me laugh even after 10 years on this Island!  ) but then described as an adjective 'naff' (beautiful English word - I have taught it my sister in Germany who now uses it all the time! Cross-lingual fertilisation!!!!)

Tamarro - noun or adjective or interchangable?!

Mi dispiace a una domanda stupida!


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## moodywop

La Bionda said:
			
		

> Ciao
> 
> Sorry for a really bad question but is tamarro a noun or an adjective? It was asked to be translated as noun (e.g. hillybilly - now there's a word that always makes me laugh even after 10 years on this Island!  ) but then described as an adjective 'naff' (beautiful English word - I have taught it my sister in Germany who now uses it all the time! Cross-lingual fertilisation!!!!)
> 
> Tamarro - noun or adjective or interchangable?!
> 
> Mi dispiace a una domanda stupida!


 
It's *only* used as a *noun*. Sorry if I confused you but I thought _naff_ was exactly what they would use in BE:

_Che tamarro quel tipo! That guy is so naff!_

_Oaf_ is another word I use which resembles _tamarro_ in BE(lsp?) but my dictionary labels it _old-fashioned. _I guess I'm getting old


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## lsp

moodywop said:
			
		

> It's *only* used as a *noun*. Sorry if I confused you but I thought _naff_ was exactly what they would use in BE:
> 
> _Che tamarro quel tipo! That guy is so naff!_
> 
> _Oaf_ is another word I use which resembles _tamarro_ in BE(lsp?) but my dictionary labels it _old-fashioned. _I guess I'm getting old


Oaf, what an idea! I always use it to mean someone who is big and clumsy and uncoordinated. But when I looked it up I found a wealth of words and I laughed out loud at some: lout, boor, barabarian, neanderthal, fool, dolt, dullard, yokel, idiot, imbecile, moron, halfwit, cretin, jackass, ass, goon, yahoo, ape, babboon, clod, blockhead, meatball, meathead, knucklehead, bonehead, chucklehead, lamebrain, palooka, lug, bozo, chowderhead, lummox, klutz, goofus, doofus, dork, turkey, dingbat (then a small note for BE: twit, nerk, git, yob). How many words for this do we need?! And there are surely more.

source: MAC system default dictionary widget.


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## Plodder

Just an aside on the word yob.  I can confirm that yob is a currently used BE word, in fact it has become more popular in recent years with increasing concerns about antisocial behaviour by some British citizens at home and abroad.

The word is commonly thought to be an example of "back-slang" where a new word is created from reversing all or some of an existing word.  So yob is believed to derive from boy.

I must point out, however, that not all British boys are yobs!

Plodder


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## moodywop

Plodder said:
			
		

> Just an aside on the word yob. I can confirm that yob is a currently used BE word, in fact it has become more popular in recent years with increasing concerns about antisocial behaviour by some British citizens at home and abroad.
> 
> Plodder


 
My point exactly. _Yob/yobbo _and _lout _are not equivalent to _tamarro _as they suggest a potential for violence which is *totally *absent in the Italian word.

From the _Cambridge Dictionary: yob/lout, a young man who behaves in a very rude, offensive and sometimes violent way_

An English friend who has lived here for many years agrees that the best way to translate the word in BE is by using the adjective_ naff._


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## lisetta

Hi there,
Just wanted to say that the word 'naff' is used a lot in the UK, but I don't think I've ever heard it refer to a person. You can say a thing is a bit 'naff', or you can have an experience that was 'naff', but I've never heard a person being described as 'naff'.
Saluti a tutti,
Lisetta


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## moodywop

lisetta said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> Just wanted to say that the word 'naff' is used a lot in the UK, but I don't think I've ever heard it refer to a person. You can say a thing is a bit 'naff', or you can have an experience that was 'naff', but I've never heard a person being described as 'naff'.
> Saluti a tutti,
> Lisetta


 
Hi Lisetta 

Thank you for pointing that out. My friend has probably been in Italy too long and he's out of touch. Can you suggest a derogatory word that is currently used by young people to describe someone who lives out in the sticks, wears naff clothes and so on?

What about _naff off! _Is it dated? It made the news(well, in the tabloids) in the seventies when an angry Princess Anne said it to a group of photographers who were bothering her


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## lisetta

I've been asking colleagues at work and you've had us all pondering. We can only come up with slightly old-fashioned terms like 'yokel', 'oik', or 'country-bumpkin' but none of these are youth-speak. A twenty year-old colleague suggested 'pikey', but none of the rest of us have heard if it, so I wouldn't suggest using it. There is a term 'chav' but this refers to generally uneducated teenagers who live in towns - they wear a uniform of, to my eyes, naff clothes: baggy track suit pants tucked into their socks, white trainers, burberry baseball caps,  and the girls wear ostentatious gold jewellery. They have a bit of a reputation for getting into trouble - stealing etc. Whoops, this is possibly straying into another thread!

Sorry to not be able to help.
Lisetta


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## lisetta

. . . oh, and we think that you are right in that 'naff off' is a bit dated.


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## moodywop

lisetta said:
			
		

> Sorry to not be able to help.
> Lisetta


 
Quite the opposite! I love learning new slang words and you taught us a few. _Pikey _is actually listed in a recently published slang dictionary: _pikey,n. a vagrant[Kentish dial.]_
I hope you don't mind if we pick your brains about new slang in the future 

Carlo


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## Silvia

Well, no one described a tamarro in detail yet.


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## moodywop

Silvia said:
			
		

> Well, no one described a tamarro in detail yet.


 
Silvia

Excellent point - as usual! You set me thinking(OK, run for cover... ).

But seriously, it's actually not a very nice word. I was going to say "Come and see me in Salerno and I'll show you a few" until I realized how glib my would-be-jocular remark sounded even to myself.

I would argue that the use of the word is partly based on class prejudice and snobbery. So A(a rich lawyer's spoilt rotten daughter attending a liceo classico) might call B(an impiegato comunale's son attending a tecnico) a tamarro while B might also call C(a "rough" kid from a family that barely scrapes by on a low salary) a tamarro. I apologize for the sterotypes in brackets but it's for exemplification's sake.

My school is a liceo scientifico/tecnico commerciale. *On the whole* the kids from the liceo don't mix with the kids from the tecnico. This is based on observation, confirmed by my conversations with the kids.

But it's not as easy as that. Geographic snobbery plays a big role too. *All *the kids from my school(in a small town near Naples) are regarded as tamarri by kids in Salerno. 

Because kids from the neighbouring villages/small towns descend on Salerno for the Saturday night _movida _the Salerno kids desert the centro storico and take refuge in a hidden-away square. If you ask them why they stay away from the bustle of the _movida _they will say _troppi tamarri._

I don't think I'll ever use the word again - not even jocularly.

Carlo


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## La Bionda

lsp said:
			
		

> Oaf, what an idea! I always use it to mean someone who is big and clumsy and uncoordinated. But when I looked it up I found a wealth of words and I laughed out loud at some: lout, boor, barabarian, neanderthal, fool, dolt, dullard, yokel, idiot, imbecile, moron, halfwit, cretin, jackass, ass, goon, yahoo, ape, babboon, clod, blockhead, meatball, meathead, knucklehead, bonehead, chucklehead, lamebrain, palooka, lug, bozo, chowderhead, lummox, klutz, goofus, doofus, dork, turkey, dingbat (then a small note for BE: twit, nerk, git, yob). How many words for this do we need?! And there are surely more.
> 
> source: MAC system default dictionary widget.


 
Sto ancora ridendo!!!  
Not only do I learn Italian I also increase the wealth of my English vocabulary!

Tamarro: Having followed the threads I'd translate it with 'dosser' or 'yobster' in BE. Both derogatory and offensive and used by one 'class' to describe members of another....
Saluti!


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## Plodder

Be careful using the word "pikey" in BE.

It is generally used as a derogatory term to indicate a gypsy or traveller,  It is derived from the Kentish dialect term for gypsy that was borrowed from _turnpike_, so a person who travels the roads.  According to the Oxford Dictionary of Slang, pikey dates back to 1847.

Words like "pikey" and synonyms "gyppo", "didicoi" (also spelt "diddicoi" and "diddicoy") are not considered acceptable in BE and certainly not politically correct.  Some still use gypsy but traveller is considered by many to be the least offensive term to use.

Plodder


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## eleganza

Plodder said:
			
		

> Just an aside on the word yob.  I can confirm that yob is a currently used BE word, in fact it has become more popular in recent years with increasing concerns about antisocial behaviour by some British citizens at home and abroad.
> 
> The word is commonly thought to be an example of "back-slang" where a new word is created from reversing all or some of an existing word.  So yob is believed to derive from boy.
> 
> I must point out, however, that not all British boys are yobs!
> 
> Plodder


I always believed YOB came from the term Youth Opportunity Boy from the 1970s when this was the work training scheme available(Youth Opportunity).

As for Tamarro, my friend in Liguria tells me it is a style of dress, coming from the mafia style of smart clothes.


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## Plodder

I was that boy (man)!  And we were YOPs on the Youth Opportunity Programme.  Yob is a much older expression, and quite different I think.

Now the memories of being a YOP are flooding back - but we don't want to go there!

Plodder


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## eleganza

heheheheh!!!! I was just a babe in arms in the 70s so maybe I have got this fact wrong about YOBS!!!!!!It's just what I heard that's all.


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## Girino

And what is the etymology of tamarro? Any ideas?


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## bobterrone

suggest a derogatory word that is currently used by young people to describe someone who lives out in the sticks, wears naff clothes and so on?

i hope this is still relevant to the thread but
i wanted to add a few more but these are irish slang hope they help

knacker ,bogger,mullagh and i heard a description of chav

these are derogatory terms just to be clear


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## TimeHP

Hi.
I've seeked advise from my son, my daughter and their friends. They use words like _tamarro, truzzo, punkabbestia, gabber, ecc._
According to their explanation _tamarro _is a depreciative word that can be referred to boys and girls listening a kind of music music (techno), wearing a kind of clothes (branded), driving a kind of car, assuming a kind of attitude... 
But they say it's not easy to define a tamarro ('_if you see a tamarro/a, you'll recognize him/her...')._

Ciao


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## You little ripper!

According to De Mauro it has two basic meanings:

 1ta|màr|ro
s.m.
1 RE merid., cafone, zoticone 
2 CO gerg., giovane dai modi rozzi, che segue gli aspetti più appariscenti e volgari della moda


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## moodywop

Girino said:
			
		

> And what is the etymology of tamarro? Any ideas?


 
According to Garzanti it is derived from Arabic:

Dall'ar. _tamma¯r_ 'venditore di datteri'


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## victoria luz

Uhm....qualcuno ha già detto che a Roma lo si chiama *coatto*?

Some more details added to the picture:

A tamarro drives with his left elbow and forearm protruding from the open window of a car covered with stickers. He has his car-radio (hi-fi) on at peak volume, so that everyone can know what sort of music he's listening to (and he might be listening to Reitano, if you know what I mean...)

He'll be likely to wear shirts in eye-offending (combinations of) colours, usually unbuttoned on a hairy chest, to display an array of golden chains, assorted crosses, tattoos, etc.


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## artcar

There seems to be alot of desciptions but no translation of tamarro. In Brit English yob is probably the closest but there's an underlying "tackiness" especially in the dress sense of a tamarro. The italian singer Vasco Rossi is very tamarro without being a yob. Sorry to Vasco fans.


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## Paulfromitaly

artcar said:


> There seems to be alot of desciptions but no translation of tamarro. In Brit English yob is probably the closest but there's an underlying "tackiness" especially in the dress sense of a tamarro. The italian singer Vasco Rossi is very tamarro without being a yob. Sorry to Vasco fans.



*Chav* might fit in as well.


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## cosimix

The description you did about CHAV and his look is exactly what I think a Tamarro is, except the fact that the Tamarro for sure is not tasteful (to use a noun recently discussed in another thread  in his appearence but he is not antisocial, so he is not violent or a thief.....;-) (ma moodywop said)


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## Signora Spider

I read all the posts in this thread with a smile and great interest, but I believe no one has yet mentioned that possibly the closest translations of "tamarro" into english are "jerk" (slang) or "nincompoop" (old fashioned) or  "nitwit".


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## rafanadal

Tamarri are called guidos in the tv series Jersey Shore


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## tananai

Yeah, guidos are a kind of Italian-American tamarro, but not all tamarri are guidos, and it's not something I've heard BE speakers use....yet   I think '*chav*' is about the closest translation. In Ireland we have 'skangers', but they're not usually as flashy and, um, 'stylish' as Italian tamarri or coatti.....probably because they're not Italian! *Tacky* is an adjective I'd use to describe this kind of person.


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## london calling

Here's a thread about chavs, which someone mentioned..


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