# Names for ancestors



## Vukabular

What are the names for the ancestors in your language?  Serbs have the following names:
0. sin i ćerka - son and daughter
1. otac i majka - father and mother
2. deda i baba - grandfather and grandmother
3. pradeda i prababa - great-grandfather and great-grandmother
4. čukundeda i čukunbaba -... 
5. navrdeda i navrbaba -... 
6. kurđel i kurđela -... 
7. askurđel i askurđela -... 
8. kurđun i kurđuna -... 
9. kurlebalo i kurlebala -... 
10. sukurdol i sukurdola -... 
11. sudepač i sudepača -... 
12. parđupan i parđupana -... 
13. ožimkura i ožimkurka -... 
14. kurajber i kurajberka -... 
15. sakajtava i sakajtavka -... 
16. beli orao ("white eagle") i bela pčela ("white bee") -...


----------



## Nizo

Vukabular said:


> What are the names for the ancestors in your language?  Serbs have the following names:
> 0. sin i ćerka - son and daughter
> 1. otac i majka - father and mother
> 2. deda i baba - grandfather and grandmother
> 3. pradeda i prababa - great-grandfather and great-grandmother
> 4. čukundeda i čukunbaba -...
> 5. navrdeda i navrbaba -...
> 6. kurđel i kurđela -...
> 7. askurđel i askurđela -...
> 8. kurđun i kurđuna -...
> 9. kurlebalo i kurlebala -...
> 10. sukurdol i sukurdola -...
> 11. sudepač i sudepača -...
> 12. parđupan i parđupana -...
> 13. ožimkura i ožimkurka -...
> 14. kurajber i kurajberka -...
> 15. sakajtava i sakajtavka -...
> 16. beli orao ("white eagle") i bela pčela ("white bee") -...


I understand 0-3 but not 4-16. Are these other generations of grandparents?


----------



## symposium

In Italian you have:
1-figlio e figlia
2-padre e madre
3-nonno e nonna (literary: avo e ava or avolo e avola)
4-bisnonno e bisnonna (bisavolo e bisavola/bisavo e bisava/proavo e proava)
3-trisnonno e trisnonna/arcavo e arcava/ trisavolo e trisavola
4-bisarcavolo e bisarcavola/quartavolo e quartavola
5-quintavolo e quintavola
6-sestavolo e sestavola
It officially stops there in dictionaries (although there are some mysterious words like arcibisavolo and tetrarcavolo) but I guess you could go on with "settimavolo, ottavolo, nonavolo etc."
In spite of this, what people usually say (or would say, if they ever had a reason to discuss infinite lineages) is: bisnonno, bisbisnonno, bisbisbisnonno, bisbisbisbisnonno, bisbisbisbisbisnonno and so on forever!


----------



## Vukabular

Nizo said:


> I understand 0-3 but not 4-16. Are these other generations of grandparents?


Yes, but the names have nothing to do with counting as in Italian bi... tri.... quarta... quinta....


----------



## Nizo

Ahh. In English it's pretty boring; we just add another "great" for each generation.

0. sin i ćerka - son and daughter
1. otac i majka - father and mother
2. deda i baba - grandfather and grandmother
3. pradeda i prababa - great-grandfather and great-grandmother
4. čukundeda i čukunbaba - great-great-grandfather and great-great-grandmother
5. navrdeda i navrbaba - great-great-great-grandfather and great-great-great-grandmother
etc.


----------



## nimak

Vukabular said:


> What are the names for the ancestors in your language?



*Macedonian* names are similar with the Serbian names, but from what I know the names for 4/5-16 are built with *пра-* (pra) or *пре-* (pre), so we don't have the specific names like in Serbian.

0. sin i ćerka - *син и ќерка* (sin i ḱerka)
1. otac i majka - *татко и мајка* (tatko i majka)
2. deda i baba - *дедо и баба* (dedo i baba)
3. pradeda i prababa - *прадедо и прабаба* (pradedo i prababa); _also_ *предедо и пребаба* (prededo i prebaba)
4. čukundeda i čukunbaba - *чукундедо и чукунбаба* (čukundedo i čukunbaba); _but also_ *пра-прадедо и пра-прабаба* (pra-pradedo i pra-prababa)

5-16:
5. *пра-пра-прадедо и пра-пра-прабаба* (pra-pra-pradedo i pra-pra-prababa)​6. *пра-пра-пра-прадедо и пра-пра-пра-прабаба* (pra-pra-pra-pradedo i pra-pra-pra-prababa)​etc.​


----------



## Yendred

French:
0. *fils*[fis] et *fille*[fij] - son and daughter
1. *père *et *mère *- father and mother
2. *grand-père*[ɡʁɑ̃.pɛʁ] et *grand-mère*[ɡʁɑ̃.mɛʁ] - grandfather and grandmother
3. *arrière-grand-père *et *arrière-grand-mère* - great-grandfather and great-grandmother
4. *arrière-arrière-grand-père *et *arrière-arrière-grand-mère *- great-great-grandfather and great-great-grandmother
etc.

I don't understand what are "white eagle" and "white bee"...


----------



## Awwal12

Russian is pretty symplistic in this regard, resembling English a lot.
0. sýn i dóch
1. otéts i mát'
2. dédushka i bábushka / déd i bábka (stylistic nuances make defining the basic forms difficult)
3. pradédushka i prabábushka / práded i prabábka
4. prapradédushka i praprabábushka / prapráded i praprabábka
....
16. prapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapradédushka i praprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprabábushka / prapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapráded i praprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprapraprabábka (provided someone can actually count the prefixes)


----------



## Vukabular

Yendred said:


> I don't understand what are "white eagle" and "white bee"...


According to dr.  Marta Bjeletić from the Serbian Language Institute of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts "The White Eagle is the name used to designate the farthest ancestor.  The eagle is a symbol of heavenly power, fire, immortality.  One of his mythological traits is longevity and the ability to rejuvenate, and that is probably why he was chosen to mark that oldest ancestor of the native".


----------



## ZDalexx

In Slovak :
0. _syn, dcéra_ 
1. _otec, matka_ 
2. _dedko, babka_ or _starký, starká_ (it depends on the region) - we can say also _starý otec, stará matka_
For the older generation we put *pra-* for each generation as prefix to #2.


----------



## apmoy70

Greek:

0. *«Γιος»* [ʝɔs] (masc.), *«κόρη»* [ˈkɔ.ɾi] (fem.), rarer *«θυγατέρα»* [θi.ɣaˈte.ɾa] (fem.).
1. *«Πατέρας»* [paˈte.ɾas] (masc.), *«μητέρα»* [miˈte.ɾa] (fem.).
2. *«Παππούς»* [paˈpus] (masc.), *«γιαγιά»* [ʝaˈʝa] (fem.).
Then, we add the prefix *«προ-»* [prɔ-] for further generation of ancestry.


----------



## Yendred

Interesting this _*pr(o/a)/*_*пр(o/а) *prefix in several languages for further generations.
The English prefix _great- _would primitively mean something like "_superior_".
The French prefix _arrière- _means "_back (in time)_".
But what is the proper meaning of _*pr(o/a)/*_*пр(o/а)* in this context? "_before_" maybe?


----------



## Awwal12

In standard Russian pra- is generally unproductive and seems to be used in relationship terms only (great-grandparents and great-grandchildren, precisely). In the dialects it's also unproductive, although does provide another couple of isolated examples. It's believed to be related to Latin prō- and Old Indian prā-.


----------



## Vukabular

In Serbian pre = before


----------



## Awwal12

Vukabular said:


> In Serbian pre = before


Serbian pre- (or Russian pere-) lacks that meaning. Not to be confused with pred-. Neither is directly related to pra- on the Slavic level.


----------



## Vukabular

In Serbian word for ancestor is "predak".


----------



## Awwal12

Vukabular said:


> In Serbian word for ancestor is "predak".


Which is transparently decomposed as pred- + -ak (Cf. Rus. "prédok", which is a loan from Church Slavonic, with the same meaning).


----------



## Nizo

Esperanto incorporated the prefix _pra-_ with the meaning of something from a long time ago, or primitive. It is used in family relationships for great-. For example, _avo_ (grandfather) / _praavo_ (great-grandfather), _nepino_ (granddaughter) / _pranepino_ (great-granddaughter). The more _pra_s the greater the person  Ancestors can be translated as _praavoj_; forefathers, as _prapatroj_.

The Esperanto prefix _pra-_ is also used in such combinations as _la Praeksplodo_ (the Big Bang), _pratipo_ (prototype), _prahomo_ (early human), _praarbaro_ (old-growth/primary/virgin forest), and _prapeko_ (original sin).


----------



## Doraemon-

In Spanish there is a specific name up to four generations, in both directions (ascending-descending, in the forms of masculine/feminine):
1. padre/madre - hijo/hija
2. abuelo/abuela - nieto/nieta
3. bisabuelo/bisabuela - bisnieto/bisnieta
4. tatarabuelo/tatarabuela - tataranieto/tataranieta

The most usual form for referring to more distant people in the ascending/descending line is to repeat tátara-, although this rarely happens:
5. tátara-tatarabuelo / tátara-tatarabuela - tátara-tataranieto / tátara-tataranieta
6. tátara-tátara-tatarabuelo / tátara-tátara-tatarabuela - tátara-tátara-tataranieto / tátara-tátara-tataranieta
...



In Catalan after the fourth degree we just use the ordinal number (starting from the grandfather/grandmother):
1. pare/mare - fill/filla
2. avi/àvia - nét/néta
3. besavi/besàvia - besnét/besnéta
4. rebesavi/rebesàvia - rebesnét/rebesnéta (also tresavi/tresnét; 'tres'=3)
5. avi 4t - nét 4t  (also quadravi/quadrinét, although rare; 'quadr-' means 4)
6. avi 5é - nét 5é
7. avi 6é - nét 6é
8. avi 7é - nét 7é
9. avi 8é - nét 8é
10. avi 9é - nét 9é
.... (up to infinite)


----------



## AndrasBP

Vukabular said:


> Serbs have the following names:



No European language has distinct terms for 16 generations. 
After doing some online research about the origin and use of the Serbian terms for generations 6 and above, my conclusion is that the list is a hoax.


----------



## Circunflejo

Doraemon- said:


> tátara-tataranieto / tátara-tataranieta


Chozno and chozna. Same meaning and way shorter.


----------



## Doraemon-

Circunflejo said:


> Chozno and chozna. Same meaning and way shorter.



Yes, but almost nobody uses it. 
Most people don't even know the word.


----------



## Vukabular

AndrasBP said:


> No European language has distinct terms for 16 generations.
> After doing some online research about the origin and use of the Serbian terms for generations 6 and above, my conclusion is that the list is a hoax.


If you suspect hoax you can always come to the Ethnographic Museum in Belgrade and check it out, Budapest is not far away from Belgrade and you can also get information at the museum in _Szekszárd_ because these two museums have mutual cooperation, ask Martha she works as a curator there.


----------



## Dymn

Some related threads:

great (great grandparent, great grandchild)
grand- (grandchild, grandchildren)


----------



## jazyk

In Portuguese there is a specific name up to four generations, in both directions (ascending-descending, in the forms of masculine/feminine):
1. pai/mãe - filho/filha
2. avô/avó - neto/neta
3. bisavô/bisavó - bisneto/bisneta
4. tataravô or tetravô/tataravó or tetravó- tataraneto/tataraneta

The most usual form for referring to more distant people in the ascending/descending line is to repeat tátara-, although this rarely happens:
5. tátara-tataravô / tátara-tataravó - tátara-tataraneto / tátara-tataraneta
6. tátara-tátara-tataravô / tátara-tátara-tataravó - tátara-tátara-tataraneto / tátara-tátara-tataraneta


----------

