# out of square



## sealbeam

Hi all,

How do you say in Japanese, "these walls are out-of-square," meaning that the walls are not at right angles to each other.

Thanks

Bob


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## Flaminius

I remember a carpenter said 直角がくるっている when I ordered a small-scale repair in my place.  It sounded like a technical jargon that only professionals would use.  I won't use the expression in a conversation with a non-carpentry, non-construction company.  That would make me as being in the know while I am not.

I am not sure how general the expression "out of square" in English.  For the general public in Japan, the best way to say this is to translate the paraphrasing you did in English.

壁どうしが直角に交わっていない。


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## sealbeam

Flaminius---

Thanks for your reply.

The U.S. is full of do-it-yourselfers, so the term "out-of-square" is widely used, even by non-professionals.

Thanks again.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
I would say; 壁がゆがんでいる.


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## almostfreebird

I prefer ”傾いている” to "ゆがんでいる".

If the wall looked warped, I must be hallucinating...just a joke.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
壁がゆがんでいる　works fine with me. Maybe it is our district's dialect.

Then, how about 壁が*いびつ*になっている　？

Formally speaking;
壁の*建てつけ*が悪い


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## almostfreebird

I might say:

この壁、まっすぐ(vertical)になっていない。


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## Flaminius

Hello *Wishfull* and *almostfreebird*,

I am sure that your suggestions are going to be appreciated by the original poster, but I am afraid they are not translations of _out of square_, which is a more specific word than your suggestions.  If the word means not being "at right angles to each other", it says nothing about the angles of the walls and the ground. How an image "stands" on a plane is irrelevant in a two-dimensional design, but it is indispensable in the three-dimensional world in which, I suspect, most construction works take place.  

Words like まっすぐ and _vertical_ are misleading terms because they can be applied to any right angle.  まっすぐな壁 can be a wall making a 90-degree angle with the ground, or it can be a wall making a 90-degree angle with another wall.


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## Wishfull

OK,
Flam,　I got your point.

I thought it is the matter of do-it-yourself and I avoided to use logical terms.

Now I'll try scientific description. 
Because I don't know the technical jargon in Japanese.


本来９０度になるべき、壁と壁のおりなす角度がきちんとなっていない。

本来直角であるべき壁と壁のおりなす角度がずれている。

部屋が長方形ではなく平行四辺形（あるいは台形）になっている。
あるいは
部屋が正方形ではなくひし形になっている。

What do you think?


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## Flaminius

The first two sound fine, *Wishie*.

These, however, are too limiting.


> 部屋が長方形ではなく平行四辺形（あるいは台形）になっている。
> あるいは
> 部屋が正方形ではなくひし形になっている。


What if the walls do not form a graphic but they have open an angle or angles?  

In technical jargon, 直角, 水平, 垂直 (perhaps 鉛直 too) are not only right angle, horizontal or perpendicular, but also the angle or the flatness of what supposed to be right angle etc.  I feel this usage is somewhat colloquial even for those in the industry.  That is, I don't think they can use them in a report about the house's structural strength and so on.

If lay people use them, they would sound downright slangy.


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## Wishfull

Flaminius said:


> What if the walls do not form a graphic but they have open an angle or angles?



That's the point!

And I agree with you. 

I wonder;

The correct angle of the walls of the US Department of Defense should be 108 degrees (180X3÷5=108).

If Pentagon were fixed by a do-it-yourself-carpenter, and the angle became 104 degrees, should it refer as "out of square"?



I would like to ask to * sealbeam*.


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## sealbeam

Wishfull---

I am not a carpenter, but I know that almost all houses and commercial buildings are designed to have walls at 90 degrees. I expect that's true just about everywhere in the world. Components such as wallboard, sheathing, cabinets, roofing, etc. are made with square corners.  Of course, corrections can be made, but that is expensive. From the internet, I got this:

Problems you will encounter with out of square walls: 

•Flooring with a pattern or tile that does not fit or look properly
•Trim that does not fit properly
•Cabinets that won't fit together properly

As to your question about the Pentagon, I don't know the answer, but I would guess that "out of square" would not apply in that case.

I'm glad my question spurred so much interest. I appreciate all the answers.


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