# Tanulgatom



## Zaduma

I am translating a phrase which says something about German beer and Turkish something: Tanulgatom a nemet sörfajtak es a török etelek neveit. I can't manage to understand the words "anulgatom" and "etelkek neveit"


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## jazyk

If it is _Tanulgatom a német sörfajták és a török ételek neveit_, a possible translation could be_ I have been (off and on) studying the names of German beers and of Turkish dishes._ _Tanulgat _is the frequentative of _tanul _(to study) and _ételek neveit_ means _the names of foods/dishes._


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## Zsanna

The only addition I can think of is just a remark about this frequentative form: it has sevaral different shades of meaning. 
The "studying on and off" should be interpreted for example in terms of "little by little" without any "serious" or "intensive" quality to this action. (Probably for my own enjoyment, when I have time, etc.)


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## Cryohead

_Tanulgatom_ could probably be interpreted as _I've been dabbling in studying_.


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## Zsanna

Cryohead said:


> _Tanulgatom_ could probably be interpreted as _I've been dabbling in studying_.



Or maybe: I've been dabbling in Turkish food names... but even that is not right.
The trouble is that "dabbling" doesn't really allow a possible interpretation of "I enjoy sitting down to learning about Turkish food names occasionally".


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## Cryohead

Zsanna said:


> Or maybe: I've been dabbling in Turkish food names... but even that is not right.
> The trouble is that "dabbling" doesn't really allow a possible interpretation of "I enjoy sitting down to learning about Turkish food names occasionally".



to dabble:
work with in a non-serious manner; "She dabbles in astronomy"; "He plays around with investments bu he never makes any money" 

To work in slight or superficial manner; to do in a small
   way; to tamper; to meddle. ``Dabbling here and there with
   the text.'' --Atterbury.


http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=dabble

http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com/2007/11/erykah-badu-dabbling-in-quantum-physics.html

etc.

Also, "tanulgatom" does not necessarily involve any joyful experience at all. You could as well be preparing for an exam and still say "tanulgatom a tárgyat" perhaps implying that you have ample amount of time until the exam so no serious effort is required on your part at the time. You seem to be implying more than there is to "tanulgatás" by drawing _joy_ into the picture.

If you do enjoy studying then you should as well say so: "tanulgatom a matekot, és nagyon élvezem" or something like that.


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## Zsanna

I did not argue the use of _dabble_ in itself, rather the way it was used (and even that willy-nilly because it's really a native speaker who could say something more authentic about your original sentence).

You are right, _tanulgatom_ does not always mean what I suggested (but I didn't say it did), however, in the orginal sentence it gave me the impression that it could express a positive experience. 

Also, we agree that "tanulgatom a matekot és nagyon élvezem" is a possibility, but I think that even without adding the "és nagyon élvezem", just "tanulgatom" could express the same meaning.


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## Cryohead

Zsanna said:


> in the orginal sentence it gave me the impression that it could express a positive experience



Sorry, I still can't feel that. It's nothing more than a Hungarian frequentative form. You want to look behind the sentence, perhaps even imagining the one saying it. What if the guy is a waiter and required to learn those names? How about that?


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## Ateesh6800

My two cents: in this specific context (and not having _more _context) the speaker could have said two things:

_"*Tanulom* a német sörfajták és a török ételek neveit_._"_
or
_"*Tanulgatom* a német sörfajták és a török ételek neveit_._"

_The difference between the two is that *tanulom* is the simpler, standard, *non-marked* solution expressing that I'm learning the names of German beers and Turkish dishes _and_ it may be expected that within some reasonable period of time I will be fairly well versed in them (by whatever standard that may apply to me as a waiter, translator, language student, immigrant, etc).

*Tanulgatom* the frequentative, *marked* solution, which technically expresses the same thing but adds a bit of an *overtone*. Tha overtone, however, could express more than one thing.

For example:

"I _am _studying those names but I'm not really advanced yet, so don't expect me to know everything just yet",

or

"I _am_ studying them but I don't always have the time to dedicate one hour a day to this project".

It can also be a Hungarian way of using an _understatement_: I may be spending three hours a day doing this but still use the frequentative to avoid the impression that I am doing something entirely _geeky_ (instead of enjoying life, beer, and food, for example).

So yes, we can and should always look behind the sentence, but my language-based approach is this:

In Hungarian we usually use the frequentative to _add_ an _overtone_. That overtone is sometimes a type of _non-comittal_ (I am studying it... slowly but surely, on and off, etc.), possibly designed to avoid a situation where I am ordered to start translating menues right now, or it could be _rhetorical_ device (I am studying it with great commitment but nonetheless try to give the impression that this is a humble effort really on my part) designed to avoid beeing seen as a geek.

So: the frequentative in Hungarian is almost always an _overtone_, and you need to check the context (and the intonation in spoken speech) to decyphre the reason why it was used.

*Tanulgatom a spanyolt.* In my case (_real life example_) this means that I dedicate much of my time to Spanish but not as much as I should. I will definitely take a test in September or so but right now I think I will fail.

However, I have a friend who at one point said *Tanulgatom a franciát*, and then he passed the language test with straight A's _just two months later_ -- that is, he used the frequentative because he just didn't want to brag about his serious efforts.

Just as an example:

*-- Hogy megy a spanyol?
-- Tanulgatom.*

Depending on the intonation:
-- If the intonation goes all the way down (as in a standard Hungarian affirmative sentence), it means I _am_ studying it on and off.
-- If the intonation goes all the way up, it means I _am_ studying it on and off, but I realise that I should do a lot more (please don't make me sit for a test tomorrow).

*A.*


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## Zsanna

Cryohead said:


> ...You want to look behind the sentence, perhaps even imagining the one saying it.


Yes, indeed. It is surely necessary to find a "proper" translation.



Cryohead said:


> What if the guy is a waiter and required to learn those names? How about that?


I think Ateesh has explained that above but let me come back to just one of his points: if it had been just a neutral, fact stating utterance, it would have been probably just: _tanulom_... 
As it wasn't that, one's imagination may start galloping for possible explanations - and there is a choice (This is why a context/more information about the situation, the speaker, etc. would have helped). 
I think it is useful if readers of the forum see examples of what native speakers can imagine behind such a stucture. 
(The difficult bit stays the translation - as usual. )


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## Zsanna

Ateesh6800 said:


> *-- Hogy megy a spanyol?*
> *-- Tanulgatom.*
> 
> Depending on the intonation:
> -- If the intonation goes all the way down (as in a standard Hungarian affirmative sentence), it means I _am_ studying it on and off.
> -- If the intonation goes all the way up, it means I _am_ studying it on and off, but I realise that I should do a lot more (please don't make me sit for a test tomorrow).


 
I agree, but can't help feeling that even in the first case (with an intonation going down) you could express "I'm not ready for an exam from it tomorrow, though." 
At least in a sense that "I do what I can even if it may not seem much. That's all I can do for the moment. Full stop."


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## Ateesh6800

I fully agree. There's a similar type of contrast between *tanulom* and *tanulgatom*_ (1st intonation pattern)_ as between *tanulgatom*_ (1st intonation pattern)_and *tanulgatom*_ (2nd intonation pattern)_. But, again, a lot depends on context, body language, etc.

*A.*


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