# Jumping: tobu, tobioriru, tobikoeru



## wilsocn1

I am working with a self-study course and I have a question about some vocabulary.  There are different words used and each picture seems to deal with the same concept which is something jumping.  I will give some examples below.

_onnanoko wa tobiorite imasu_ (appears to be a picture of a girl jumping)

_uma wa tobikoete imasu_ (appears to be a picture of a horse jumping)

Can someone tell me what the difference is between tobiorite and tobikoete?

Thanks


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## instantREILLY

Japanese doesn't have a lot of the motion adverbs that English has (up, down, over, across, etc...), so instead, they use compound verbs. They are incredibly useful when you get the hang of how they work, in getting an image across with a simple phrase.

飛び降りる (tobi-oriru) is a compound verb from the verbs _tobu_ ("to fly, to jump, to leap") and _oriru_ ("to go down, to get off").  Put them together, and it means "to jump off, to jump down [from]".

飛び越える (tobi-koeru) is a compound verb from the verbs _tobu_ and _koeru_ ("to go over, to cross").  Put these together, and you get "to jump over, to jump across".

Other verbs used in motion compounds would be

行く _iku/yuku_ ("to go") - wasurete yuku (wasureru + iku)
_Kare no koto omou to tsurakute, tada wasurete yuku._
It hurts to think about him, so I'll just forget about him. (lit. "forget and go" or "go, having forgotten")

来る _kuru_ ("to come") - aruite kuru (aruku + kuru)
_Densha de kita no? Uun, aruite-kita n da._
Did you come by train?  Nah, I walked (lit. "came walking").

上がる _agaru_ ("to go up") - Tachi-agaru (tatsu + agaru)
_Ankooru wo nozominagara, tachi-agatte sakenda._
In hopes for an encore, I stood up and shouted.

込む _komu_ ("to be full") - suwari-komu (suwaru + komu)
_Asuka wo machinagara, rouka de juppun suwari-konde ita._
I was sitting around in the hallway for 10 minutes, waiting for Asuka.
* komu is tricky to catch the meaning of. Think of it with words like "full", "plump", "plop", etc. "Suwari-komu", "to plop right down". "Omoi-komu", "to be convinced (lit. to be full, thinking ___).  It kind of makes the verb a little more vague and lazy sounding, I think (i.e. "to sit around [bored, lazy, in no particular place]" instead of "to sit [still in a specific spot]".)

過ぎる _sugiru_ ("to exceed") - tabe-sugiru (taberu + sugiru)
_Ohiru wa zenbu oishisou de, tabe-sugiru koto ki wo tsukete ne._
Lunch looks really good, so be careful not to eat too much.
*sugiru is probably the most common of all these verbs.

I hope this makes sense.  I think it's one of the more fun parts of the Japanese language.


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## wilsocn1

wow nice reply.  Thanks for the help!


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## Impotentboy2

i just got the rosette stone a few hours ago. when i got to verb sectin i got confused too, so i googled tobiorite imasu and found this site. the thing is, im more confused about the imasu. is it to used to make verbs present participle?  and when the guy is pronouncing the word it sounds like he's dropping the u, and just saying imas. is that a common thing among japanese dialect?

first post, but ill probly be coming back alot


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## Aur0n87

Impotentboy2 said:
			
		

> and when the guy is pronouncing the word it sounds like he's dropping the u, and just saying imas. is that a common thing among japanese dialect?



Yes that's common, as far as i know. Mostly i saw (or better heard) it for words ending with su. I don't know other cases, where syllables are explicitly left out, but i read that it is often done in Japanese.

Cases i know of are nearly all words ending with su, like
desu, masu and so on. Like in the sentence "Nan desu ka.", it is pronounced as if there was no "u".


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## Flaminius

instantREILLY said:
			
		

> Other verbs used in motion compounds. . .


Are you talking about a class of verbs used for augmenting the meaning of verbs in te-form? Then they are not limited to motions verbs.



> 行く _iku/yuku_ ("to go") - wasurete yuku (wasureru + iku)
> _Kare no koto omou to tsurakute, tada wasurete yuku._
> It hurts to think about him, so I'll just forget about him. (lit. "forget and go" or "go, having forgotten")


When used as an auxiliary, the verb _iku/yuku _means an open-ended change taking place without anyone's intention. "wasurete iku" can be translated, "[I am] going to insensibly lose the memory." A more suitable example would be;
kaihatsu-no sē-de, shizen-ga ushinawarete iku.
Due to development, natural environment is being destroyed.



> 来る _kuru_ ("to come") - aruite kuru (aruku + kuru)
> _Densha de kita no? Uun, aruite-kita n da._
> Did you come by train? Nah, I walked (lit. "came walking").


The kuru auxiliary is also used to refer to an action that has been completed and whose results only have been brought up to the locale of speech.

gohan iru?
uun, tabete kita.

Wanna eat?
No, ate already.


みる miru (from "to see") means something like "try to" when used in combination with a verb in te-form. Unlike English "try to" the action tried should actually happen.
kare-no kēki-o tabete mitara, totemo oishikatta.
I tried and ate his cake and it was so delicious.


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## 地獄の森_jigoku_no_mori

> Originally Posted by *Impotentboy2*
> _and when the guy is pronouncing the word it sounds like he's dropping the u, and just saying imas. is that a common thing among japanese dialect?_


 
That is done alot in Japanese, actually. The 'u' part of syllables is commonly left out. I'm not sure why, maybe to make speech quicker. Example: At the start of class sensei will say:
"Kiritsu, rei, chakuseki!"
Meaning, "Stand", "Bow", "Be seated" respectively. When saying this it is usually pronounced "Kirits, rei, chakseki!" Where the 'u' is pretty well silent, but then again the has to be some vowel sound to make the consonant audible.
Another example:"Ohayougozaimasu"(Good morning(polite form))
Usually the 'u' is omitted and the 'ai' sounds like how we say eye. If you wanted to be more formal though, I'm geussing that you would pronounce each syllable. Excluding 'you' because it's still pronounced like a long o sound.


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## FirePoet

I'm just starting this as well, and have a question about this.
So "_uma wa tobikoete imasu" _Is a picture of a horse jumping over a fence, and if tobikoete is "to jump over, to jump across" What would it translate to? A horse is jumping over?


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## sneeka2

FirePoet said:


> I'm just starting this as well, and have a question about this.
> So "_uma wa tobikoete imasu" _Is a picture of a horse jumping over a fence, and if tobikoete is "to jump over, to jump across" What would it translate to? A horse is jumping over?



Yes. But probably "The horse is in a forward-jumping motion (which possibly involves overcoming an obstacle)" would be more accurate. =)


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## gaer

Flaminius said:


> When used as an auxiliary, the verb _iku/yuku _means an open-ended change taking place without anyone's intention. "wasurete iku" can be translated, "[I am] going to insensibly lose the memory."


I have no idea what you just said in English. What does "insensibly lose the memory" mean?

Could you possibly mean either of these idioms?

1) I am losing my mind.
2) My mind is going.

You seem to be pointing at something that is much like passive in English. Something is happening, but there is no clear cause.


> A more suitable example would be;
> kaihatsu-no sē-de, shizen-ga ushinawarete iku.
> Due to development, *the* natural environment is being destroyed.


That makes much more sense, but you must use an article there. If you want to omit the article, you would have to use something at bit figurative, such as "nature". But I don't think that is your intention. 

Gaer


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## Hiro Sasaki

wilsocn1 said:


> I am working with a self-study course and I have a question about some vocabulary. There are different words used and each picture seems to deal with the same concept which is something jumping. I will give some examples below.
> 
> _onnanoko wa tobiorite imasu_ (appears to be a picture of a girl jumping).
> We usually say : " Onna no ko wa tobiorimashita ", although the action
> is not completed and the girl has not touched yet the ground. But, if you want to enphasize vividly  the progressive action uncompled, you can say so.
> 
> _uma wa tobikoete imasu_ (appears to be a picture of a horse jumping)
> uma GA tokikoete imasu = a horse jumping over ....
> 
> In the picture, if the horse is just over the fence and has not reached
> the ground, "Uma ga tobikoete imasu " sounds better. But, you can say
> "Uma ga tokikoe mashita".
> 
> Hiro sasaki
> 
> Thanks


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## javakills

*tobikoete, tobiokiru and tobioriru*

Hello everyone, my first post on this topic was deleted, so hopefully this format will grant me a result.  

I have a Merriam Webster English to Japanese dictionary and the words listed in the title are not in it. These words are however used in a program I'm using to learn Japanese. What dictionary might I be able to find these words in?

As a bonus, what do the words mean? I know the "tobi" words have something to do with jumping.

Any help is much apreciated. Gracias!


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## student7

As you mentioned, 'tobi-' means 'to jump' or 'to fly'.

(1) wo tobikoeru (the shushi form of 'tobikoete'): to jump over something

太郎は溝を飛び越えた(taro wa mizo wo tobi-koeta)
Taro jumped over the ditch.

(2) kara tobiokiru: to jump off something

太郎はベッドから飛び起きた (taro wa beddo kara tobi-okita)
Taro jumped off the bed.


(3) kara tobioriru: to jump (down) from something

太郎は２階から飛び降りた (taro wa nikai kara tobi-orita)
Taro jumped (down) from the second floor.

I hope this would help.


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## youtin

Word like *tobikoete, tobioriru*, and *tobioriru* aren't usually found in most dictionaries because they're "compound verbs". (I don't know what the real term is, I'm just making this up ^^; ) They're two verbs put together.

*tobikoete* is the conjugated form of *tobikoeru*.

*tobu*   +   *koeru*    =  tobikoeru (jump over)
(jump)     (go over)

*tobu*   +   *okiru*     =  tobiokiru (to jump off and get up)
(jump)      (wake up)

*tobu*   +   *oriru*     =   tobioriru (jump down)
(jump)      (go down)

*tobu* is changed to the pre-masu form *tobi* in accordance to Japanese grammar.

I hope I made things clearer ^^;


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## javakills

Got it. Thanks (especially to youtin for explaining why it's not in the dictionary).


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## OverlordSquishy

This whole language learning software confuses me more and more the further I get. The next part of the lesson is "Verbs: Present Progressive."

However, it uses a different verb form for each of the sentences. 

女の子は飛び下りています。
onnanoko wa tobiorite imasu.
The girl is jumping.

馬は飛び越えています。
uma wa tobikoete imasu
The horse is jumping.

男の子は跳んでいます。
otokonoko wa tonde imasu
The boy is jumping.

犬は飛び越えています。
inu wa tobikoete imasu
The dog is jumping.

The translations are from the text. Are they accurate?

First, I'd like to clarify what "imasu" means here. From what I've gathered, it refers to something that's happening now. "This dog is (currently) jumping."
Is that correct?

What I really want to know is why they decided to show several different ways of saying the same thing. Were the authors merely illustrating that there are different ways of saying the same thing? Or do the sentences mean different things?


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## Mugi

> First, I'd like to clarify what "imasu" means here. From what I've gathered, it refers to something that's happening now. "This dog is (currently) jumping."
> Is that correct?


Yes.

The translations are correct, if not accurate. Each Japanese sentence has a slightly different meaning:

女の子は飛び下りています。
The girl is jumping _down_ (the stairs) / _off_ (the chair), etc. 
おりる oriru = to come down

馬は飛び越えています。
The horse is jumping _over_ (the fence)
こえる koeru = to go/pass over 
(The "dog" example is the same as this one)

男の子は跳んでいます。
The boy is jumping (around the room) - nothing special about this one.

The parts I've placed in parentheses are just given as potential scenarios.

Also note that the verb とぶ encompasses the broad spectrum of movement from "jumping" to "flying." 
When written with 跳 it implies a small hop-like jump, as in a frog, or kids jumping rope. When written with 飛, it implies a "leap", so that to some degree the subject is "flying" through the air.


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## M11235

My first post. Simply wondering what exactly this means. I'm guessing to go over, but I'm not sure. Thanks.


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## divisortheory

*tobu* means "to jump"
*koeru* means "to go over"

*tobikoeru* means "to jump over".  This is one of many examples of Japanese forming a verb that describes a complex action by combining 2 other verbs that each describe simpler actions.  There are many examples of this, often the second verb is dasu or kiru


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## nisokkusu

I've got a question, what's the difference between 飛び降りる and 飛び下りる? As far as I can tell they mean the same thing, but why is it sometimes written with 下 instead of 降?


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## Ume

特別な理由はありません。意味や用法の点では、全く同じです。「飛び降りる」のほうが一般的だと思います。

---------------------
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/photonews/photo.htm?ge=1&id=8300
２２日午後８時１０分ごろ、東海道新幹線の浜松―掛川駅間を走行中の新大阪発東京行き「のぞみ１５０号」から、乗客の男性が非常用コックでドアを開けて線路内に*飛び降りた*。
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## nisokkusu

Ah, I see, although I see 飛び下りる more often. Thank you for the help


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## Ume

意味や用法の点では、違いはありません。しかし、たいていの人は「飛び降りる」と書くでしょう。


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## shikinouta

Hello,

I am also using the Rosetta Stone program to self learn Japanese.  The thread has really helped with the verb understanding but I still have one question.

I'll give you what I understand first.

I understand that two verbs put together form a new verb much like compound verbs in English e.x. tobiorite imasu means "is now jumping down" or something to that effect. 

What I don't understand is how the verb tobu turns into tonde when speaking about the little boy.

_Otokonoko wa tonde imasu. _

I figure it means "The boy is currently jumping" or "the boy is now jumping" buy why tonde instead of just using tobu???

Thank you


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## Hiro Sasaki

shikinouta said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am also using the Rosetta Stone program to self learn Japanese... the thread has really helped with the verb understanding but i still have one question.
> 
> I'll give you what I understand first.
> 
> I understand that two verbs put together form a new verb much like compound verbs in english e.x. tobiorite imasu means "is now jumping down" or something to that effect.
> 
> What i dont understand is how the verb tobu turns into tonde when speaking about the little boy.
> 
> 
> 
> _Otokonoko wa tonde imasu. _
> 
> I figure it means "The boy is currently jumping" or "the boy is now jumping" buy why tonde instead of just using tobu???
> 
> Thank you


 
Tobu sounds like  "fly"when you do not write it  in the kanji.
飛ぶ　and not 跳ぶ

jump down 跳び降りる
跳びこむ　jump in with the head forwards

Hiro Sasaki


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## shikinouta

That helps alot. thank you very much


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## Flaminius

Hello *shikinouta*,

Welcome to the WR forums!  I am just wondering if you'd want some more comments on your question.



shikinouta said:


> What I don't understand is how the verb tobu turns into tonde when speaking about the little boy.
> 
> _Otokonoko wa tonde imasu. _
> 
> I figure it means "The boy is currently jumping" or "the boy is now jumping" buy why tonde instead of just using tobu???


I take you are asking why the verb assumes the form _tonde_ in the Japanese sentence above instead of the plain _tobu_ as in _*Otokonoko wa tobu imasu_.

You cannot say *_tobu imasu_.  What immediately follows _tobu_, _imasu_, forces it to assume the so-called _te_-form.  There are very few rules for deriving _te_-forms from dictionary forms and you can find resources everywhere.

The bigger question why _imasu_ requires _te_-forms is more difficult to answer.  It is really as unnerving a question as why use "to go" before "have" and "go" before "must" but some generalisation is still possible.

_Imasu_ (< _iru_) is originally a verb meaning "to stay still."  Apparently _imasu_ in your example is not used in this sense.  It serves a grammatical function of explaining that the act of jumping is still in process.  If English examples help, sentences like "I am *going* to watch TV at home", "He *has* to finish two reports by Monday" do not use the main verbs in their lieteral senses.  They are used as auxiliaries that augment the sentence grammatically.

tonde iru—The following element is an auxiliary.
tobi oriru—The following element is a genuine verb.*

*If you say "Otokonoko wa yane kara tobiorita," you mean that the boy jumped from the roof as well as that the boy got down from the roof.

If the main verb is used in the secondary grammatical sense, then _tobu_ should be _tonde_ because it is its _te_-forum.  If the main verb is a genuine verb, then _obu_ should be _tobi_ because it is its adverbial form.

N.B.
Some grammar books lump _tobi_ and _tonde_ together in the same rubric "adverbial form."  I used different labels for the two because using one for another can be ungrammatical as in *_tobi imasu_.


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## shikinouta

wow

Very informative and great examples. I understand it completely now. At least I think that I do. I am now wondering how others have learned all that from the Rosetta stone program? i would have never known if i didn't ask and there is no guidebook or anything that came with the program. 

Thanks a ton!


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## callikoneko

Okay, this thread has been AMAZINGLY helpful so far, but here's something I'm still curious about.

I understand the different forms of the jump verb.

*Uma wa tobikoete imasu* means The horse is jumping over.

But what is the horse jumping over? How would you say something like, the horse is jumping over the water?

Would it be *Uma wa mizu ni tobikoete imasu*? Or do I have my word placement completely wrong? And would the verb stay the same, or would it change tenses in a sentance such as that?


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## Flaminius

callikoneko said:


> *Uma wa tobikoete imasu* means The horse is jumping over.
> 
> But what is the horse jumping over?


What is being jumped over is not indicated in this sentence.


> How would you say something like, the horse is jumping over the water? Would it be *Uma wa mizu ni tobikoete imasu*?


The required postposition for _koeru_, which is inherited by _tobikoeru_ (> _tobikoete_), is _-o_.  Another thing I am not comfortable with in this sentence is the use of _mizu_.  This word means a material (H2O) you can drink or make food with, but it cannot refer to a place/object over which the movement of "going over" takes place.  The English "the water" needs to be translated into something more concrete in Japanese.
Uma wa mizutamari o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a puddle).
Uma wa ogawa o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a brook [literally, small river]).
Uma wa hādoru o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a hurdle).


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## callikoneko

> The required postposition for _koeru_, which is inherited by _tobikoeru_ (> _tobikoete_), is _-o_. Another thing I am not comfortable with in this sentence is the use of _mizu_. This word means a material (H2O) you can drink or make food with, but it cannot refer to a place/object over which the movement of "going over" takes place. The English "the water" needs to be translated into something more concrete in Japanese.
> Uma wa mizutamari o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a puddle).
> Uma wa ogawa o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a brook [literally, small river]).
> Uma wa hādoru o tobikoete imasu (The horse is jumping over a hurdle).


 
Thank you! This was wonderfully helpful, and it makes a lot more sense now. And thank you for the 'water' explanation as well -- I'm afraid I haven't gotten that far in my lessons.


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