# How long have you been studying Arabic?



## omar al-mukhtar

Hello everyone

I wanted to ask everyone here who is not a native speaker: How long have you been studying arabic?

كم طالما كنتم تدرسون اللغة العربية؟​I included the question in arabic as well so that I can improve my writing in arabic inshallah. Please correct my mistakes as I am unsure how to construct "how long" and the verb tense "have been studying". Thanks in advance.​


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## elroy

Unfortunately, your question is chatty so it isn't quite acceptable as a thread topic.   Such discussions should take place by PM.  In this thread, let's focus only on your linguistic question.

How long have you been studying Arabic? = منذ متى وأنت تدرس العربية؟


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## Anatoli

> منذ متى وأنت تدرس العربية؟


Please check if I romanised this correctly:
mundu mataa wa-anta tadras(u) 'l-3arabiyya(ta)?

I also don't understand why "wa" has to be there but I noticed "wa" and "fa" are used quite a lot in Arabic.

Omar al-Mukhtar, the verb tense used is imperfect (present), literally it is "you (masc., sg) study", not "you have been studying".


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## elroy

Anatoli said:


> mun*dh*u mataa wa-anta tadr*u*su 'l-3arabiyya(ta)?


 Notice that I got rid of the parentheses; you cannot leave the "u" out and skip right over to the "l" of the definite article.

If you choose not to inflect the verb, you can either pronounce the "a" of the definite article or a sort of schwa sound instead.


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## Anatoli

شكرا يا إلياس
Thanks, Elias  silly mistakes.
I edited my post with another question


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## omar al-mukhtar

Thank you Elroy for correcting my arabic. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Anyways, the literal translation would be "Since how long you are studying arabic?" Is this correct?


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## elroy

Anatoli said:


> I also don't understand why "wa" has to be there but I noticed "wa" and "fa" are used quite a lot in Arabic.


 The و is used to express simultaneousness.  منذ متى can be replaced with كم مضى من الوقت, so think of it as "How much time has passed *with* you studying Arabic?".  Obviously, we wouldn't express it that way in English; I'm just trying to give you an idea of what the literal meaning of the Arabic sentence is.


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## xebonyx

Could you also start with:

كم دامت...؟


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## elroy

omar al-mukhtar said:


> Thank you Elroy for correcting my arabic. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Anyways, the literal translation would be "Since how long you are studying arabic?" Is this correct?


 It would be "since *when*..."


xebonyx said:


> Could you also start with:
> 
> كم دامت...؟


 No, that is not possible.

It means "How long did it last?".

كم دامت العملية؟ - How long did the surgery last?


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## xebonyx

Oh ok, thanks!


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## Anatoli

elroy said:


> The و is used to express simultaneousness.  منذ متى can be replaced with كم مضى من الوقت, so think of it as "How much time has passed *with* you studying Arabic?".  Obviously, we wouldn't express it that way in English; I'm just trying to give you an idea of what the literal meaning of the Arabic sentence is.



kam maDaa 'l-waqt(a) - isn't it?

I looked up maDaa - elapse

What's the reading for:
كم دامت...؟

only guessing: kam daamta...?
I don't understand "daama" - is it "to continue""
So, literally: "how long did you continue..."


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## elroy

Anatoli said:


> kam maDaa 'l-waqt(a) - isn't it?


 No, it's "kam maDaa min al-waqt(i)."


> I looked up maDaa - elapse


 "MaDaa" here is a verb - it means "passed." 


> What's the reading for:
> كم دامت...؟
> 
> only guessing: kam daamta...?


 "Kam daamat."


> I don't understand "daama" - is it "to continue""
> So, literally: "how long did you continue..."


 See my post #10.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:


> How long have you been studying Arabic? = منذ متى وأنت تدرس العربية؟


 
Would it be possible to insert some kind of particle for emphasis? There are for instance قد and لقد, whose usages I'm not very familiar with, although I know the function of قد after كان and before the مضارع.

And is the و before أنت necessary for questions like these, or would it be perfectly understood without it?

To Anatoli: daama (دام <-- دوم) means "to last."


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## Anatoli

Thanks, guys 

I understand the type of verb daama is (conjugated as kaana) but didn't quite understand why "kam daam*at*...". Does it depend on what follows?

I might create even more confusion:

"kam daama 'd-dars?" - How long did the lesson last? (not sure if "kam" is appropriate)

However, Xebonyx and Elias used "kam daamat..." with an ellipsis and the translation was "since when...". Why does it have to be feminine singular?


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## Whodunit

Anatoli said:


> Thanks, guys
> 
> I understand the type of verb daama is (conjugated as kaana) but didn't quite understand why "kam daam*at*...". Does it depend on what follows?



Yes, it does. In Elroy's example sentence (كم دامت العملية؟), the word معلية is most likely feminine, so the verb has to agree, hence "daam*at*." "daama" would be masculine, and you could use in this sentence: كم دام الوقوف؟ (How long did the stop [_of a train, for example_] last?)


> I might create even more confusion:
> 
> "kam daama 'd-dars?" - How long did the lesson last? (not sure if "kam" is appropriate)



If I understood the use of "daama," your sentence should be correct. If you attach importance to the cases: "kam daama 'd-dars*u*?"


> However, Xebonyx and Elias used "kam daamat..." with an ellipsis and the translation was "since when...". Why does it have to be feminine singular?



It doesn't have to be feminine. If a feminine or inanimate plural follows, however, the 3rd person singular feminine of the verb has to be used. But maybe Xebonyx had something like this in mind?

كم دامت دراستك العربية؟ - How long did your study of Arabic last?
_kam daamat diraasatuka/-ki 'l-3arabiyya?_


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## xebonyx

Whodunit said:


> كم دامت دراستك العربية؟ - How long did your study of Arabic last?
> _kam daamat diraasatuka/-ki 'l-3arabiyya?_



Correct, more accurately- *how long* have they(your studies) been lasting/lasted?


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## Anatoli

I see, I missed that sentence about the surgery, hence the confusion.


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## cherine

omar al-mukhtar said:


> كم طالما كنتم تدرسون اللغة العربية؟​I included the question in arabic as well so that I can improve my writing in arabic inshallah. Please correct my mistakes as I am unsure how to construct "how long" and the verb tense "have been studying". Thanks in advance.


Hello Omar,
I'd like to add few things to the great suggestions you've already received:
طالما is not used in questions. But you can say طالما درستُ العربيةَ which would mean: It's been a long time that I've been studying Arabic.


Whodunit said:


> Would it be possible to insert some kind of particle for emphasis? There are for instance قد and لقد, whose usages I'm not very familiar with, although I know the function of قد after كان and before the مضارع.


As you said, qad and liqad are used for emphasis, so we can't logically use them in questions (if we're sure, why ask?  )
But you can use it of course in the sentence: laqad darastu 'l-3arabiyyata muddata thalaathi sanawaat(in) لقد درست العربية مدة ثلاث سنوات.


> And is the و before أنت necessary for questions like these, or would it be perfectly understood without it?


This waaw is called واو الحال ; it's a bit hard for me to explain it, but let's say it's a necessary conjunction.


Whodunit said:


> If I understood the use of "daama," your sentence should be correct. If you attach importance to the cases: "kam daama 'd-dars*u*?"


Correct.


> It doesn't have to be feminine. If a feminine or inanimate plural follows, however, the 3rd person singular feminine of the verb has to be used. But maybe Xebonyx had something like this in mind?
> كم دامت دراستك للعربية؟ - How long did your study of Arabic last?
> _kam daamat diraasatuka/-ki lil-3arabiyya(ti)?_


Very well Whodunit  (And I thought your absence from the Arabic forum would affect your Arabic  )

Here's I'd like to add few things:
- daama دام is a verb, the present of it is yaduum(u) يدوم , it gets conjugated or inflected according to its subject, this is why we have دامت، دام and we can have يدوم، تدوم ...
- If we add (ma) ما before daama it will mean (as long as) لا أسافر مادام الجو مطيرًا (laa usaafiru ma daama 'l-jawwu maTiira) I won't travel as long as it's raining (it rains). And in this case, مادام is considered one of kana's sisters أخوات كان ; so "aljawwu" is ism kaana (ma daama) and "maTiiran" is khabar kaana.


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## Whodunit

cherine said:


> As you said, qad and liqad are used for emphasis, so we can't logically use them in questions (if we're sure, why ask?  )



Because it can mean "already" as well: قد أتى (he's already come/there). Since "How long have you _already_ been studying Arabic" (although this is very German-like) would work in German, I thought one could add "qad" before the verb.


> But you can use it of course in the sentence: laqad darastu 'l-3arabiyyata muddata thalaathi sanawaat(in) لقد درست العربية مدة ثلاث سنوات.



Well, yes, that's exactly what I meant by "already": I've _already_ been studying Arabic for three years. I thought it could be used in questions as well. 


> This waaw is called واو الحال ; it's a bit hard for me to explain it, but let's say it's a necessary conjection.



What is a _conjection_?  I seem to understand what you were trying say, though.


> Very well Whodunit  (And I thought your absence from the Arabic forum would affect your Arabic  )



Well, being absent from the forum doesn't mean that I haven't had taken any Arabic lessons.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:


> Because it can mean "already" as well: قد أتى (he's already come/there).


 I've heard this statement on the forum a few times already, and I have to say I have no idea who came up with this idea. Let's set the record straight: قد does *not* mean "already." There is not one single word in Arabic that conveys that meaning. This is a perfect example of major confusion caused by the incorrect assumption that قد means "already."


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## cherine

Whodunit said:


> cherine said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you said, qad and liqad are used for emphasis, so we can't logically use them in questions (if we're sure, why ask?  )
> 
> 
> 
> Because it can mean "already" as well: قد أتى (he's already come/there). Since "How long have you _already_ been studying Arabic" (although this is very German-like) would work in German, I thought one could add "qad" before the verb.
Click to expand...

qad can mean already in an affirmative sentence, but I don't remember ever seeing it in a question.


> cherine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you can use it of course in the sentence: laqad darastu 'l-3arabiyyata muddata thalaathi sanawaat(in) لقد درست العربية مدة ثلاث سنوات.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, that's exactly what I meant by "already": I've _already_ been studying Arabic for three years. I thought it could be used in questions as well.
Click to expand...

Well, I doesn't mean (I've already...); but (I've studied Arabic for three years).


> What is a _conjection_?  I seem to understand what you were trying say, though.


 Very sorry, I meant conj*un*ction. I'll go edit my message.


> Well, being absent from the forum doesn't mean that I haven't had taken any Arabic lessons.


Well, chapeau then


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## cherine

Coming after yours, Elroy, my post seems to be answering yours  , but this is not true 


elroy said:


> I've heard this statement on the forum a few times already, and I have to say I have no idea who came up with this idea.  Let's set the record straight: قد does *not* mean "already." There is not one single word in Arabic that conveys that meaning. This is a perfect example of major confusion caused by the incorrect assumption that قد means "already."





cherine said:


> qad can mean already in an affirmative sentence, but I don't remember ever seeing it in a question.


Let's say that qad is one of the closer solutions we can get.
But we agreed, in at least another thread, that already -and the French "déjà"- don't have a direct or exact equivalent in Arabic.
Some people use qad قد , others use بالفعل , others just say "already".

Again, either ways we cannot use qad/liqad in a question.


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## linguist786

In my mind:

_darastu_ = I studied
_laqad darastu_ = I _have_ studied

Tell me if I'm wrong!


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## elroy

^You are spot on!

Honestly, I cannot think of a single instance in which قد actually _expresses_ the idea of "already."  It may be implied, but it is not actually included in the word قد.  This is an important distinction.

This is an issue we have discussed previously - in this thread, for example.  If there are further questions or comments about "already," they should be asked in that thread.  Much of it is in Arabic, so those who don't understand parts of it can ask for clarification.


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## aurelien.demarest

elroy said:


> منذ متى can be replaced with كم مضى من الوقت, so think of it as "How much time has passed *with* you studying Arabic?"



in the same type of sentence would it be correct to say:
how long was his trip? = how much time passed since he is in a trip.
كم مضى من الوقت على رحيله؟

Aurélien


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## elroy

كم من الوقت مضى على بداية رحلته؟

But that's a convoluted way to ask the question.  You can just say منذ متى وهو مسافر؟.

Note: كم من الوقت مضى على رحيله؟ means "How long has it been since his passing/since he passed away/since he died?".


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## aurelien.demarest

Thank you Elroy for your help


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## Tilmeedh

I'm curious to know how Arabic dialects would express sentences mentioned in this thread or similar to them.

Here are my guesses for Lebanese.

1) 'How long have you been studying Arabic?'

من/صرلي ايمتا وبتدرس العربي؟

2) How long did the surgery last?'

قدّيش وقت اخدت العمليّة؟

3)

a) 'It's been a long time that I've been studying Arabic.'

NB: I would rephrase the above sentence as 'I've been studying Arabic for a long time'. It sounds more idiomatic this way, but unfortunately my suggestion doesn't emphasize the issue of time.

بدرس العربي من/صرلي زمان.

b) It's been a long time since I've studied Arabic.

ما بدرس العربي من/صرلي زمان.

4)

a) 'How long was his trip?'

NB: Taken at face value, the above sentence means something different from what was intended.

قدّيش وقت كانت رحلته؟

b) How long ago was his trip?

من/صرلي ايمتا كانت رحلته؟

Many thanks in advance.


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## analeeh

من ايمتى = how long ago. صارلك ايمتى is ungrammatical - you want قديش صارلك 'how long have you...'

My suggestions:

قديش صارلك عم تدرس عربي؟

قديش طولت العملية؟ قديش أخدت وقت؟ 

صارلي زمان عم ادرس عربي

قديش طولت سفرتو؟

من ايمتى كانت سفرتو؟

قديش وقت sounds unnatural to me. _2addeesh _is sometimes accompanied by a noun that it specifies but it rarely follows it directly, instead dragging along as a sort of adverbial element (_tamyiiz_) at the end. قديش أخدت العملية وقت bit better. Another option that might be more idiomatic is قديش طولت العملية؟


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## cherine

In Egyptian Arabic it's ba2aali (time) b(verb): بقالي سنتين بادرس إنجليزي، بقالي شهور ما شفتش صاحبتي، بقالي زَمَن (يعني فترة طويلة جدًا) باحاول اتعلّم لغة جديدة

We also use it in questions:
بقالك قد إيه بتتعلم عربي؟
بقالك قد إيه ما روحتش سينما؟
بقالو/بقالُه قد إيه مسافر؟ (but this one means he hasn't returned yet. If you want to ask how much time he stayed away, you can ask فضل مسافر قد إيه؟/ قعد قد إيه مسافر؟


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