# παλτό: etymology



## eno2

Hello,

Palto (παλτό) is a word that figures in a few languages.  In French (Palletot) and  in my Flemish/Dutch  dialect (palto) , it has the same  meaning as παλτό. A coat.


> *palto - Wiktionary*
> 
> palto - Wiktionary
> Probably from Polish or Russian, ultimately from French paletot. This etymology is incomplete. You can help Wiktionary by elaborating on the origins of this term.



1370: Palletot, Frans. www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/paletot

I suppose παλτό is a French loanword too.


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## Acestor

It does indeed come from the French word _paletot_, and two of my dictionaries (Babiniotis, Academy's) agree on that. This online dictionary claims it came from French through Italian, but I think that the final syllable stress would have changed in that case.


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## eno2

Thanks for that. I knew  'Portal' and should have used it, I have it highlighted now in my markers.


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## Astrix

Acestor said:


> It does indeed come from the French word _paletot_, and two of my dictionaries (Babiniotis, Academy's) agree on that. This online dictionary claims it came from French through Italian, but I think that the final syllable stress would have changed in that case.


I remember encountering somewhere an etymological derivation from "πέλτη" the small shield.


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## Acestor

Astrix said:


> I remember encountering somewhere an etymological derivation from "πέλτη" the small shield.



There's an ancient Greek adjective *παλτός, παλτή, παλτόν* from _πάλλω_, which, according to Liddell-Scott, means brandished, hurled. It gave the noun *το παλτόν*, which stood for a missile, a projectile, and a light spear.
None of them are used today, nor are they related to the French _paletot_. _Πέλτη_ is not connected to _paletot_ either, but I can see how the similarity of some consonants inspires folk etymologies.


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## Astrix

Acestor said:


> There's an ancient Greek adjective *παλτός, παλτή, παλτόν* from _πάλλω_, which, according to Liddell-Scott, means brandished, hurled. It gave the noun *το παλτόν*, which stood for a missile, a projectile, and a light spear.
> None of them are used today, nor are they related to the French _paletot_. _Πέλτη_ is not connected to _paletot_ either, but I can see how the similarity of some consonants inspires folk etymologies.


According to Fytrakis it comes from the italian "palto", no reference to any french word though the dictionary always goes back up to the earliest etymology.

Who exactly thought of the french etymology?

After all Italian is much closer to Greek with strong Ancient Greek interconnection.


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## Acestor

In my posting #2 I already mentioned the Triantafyllidis dictionary giving the Italian _palto_ as the more probable origin of the Greek. On the other hand, the Babiniotis dictionaries as well as the more recent dictionary of the Academy prefer the French origin.

To wit, the entry in the Babiniotis Etymological Dictionary reads:
*παλτό* < γαλλ. _paletot _(από όπου το ιταλ. _palto_) < μέσο αγγλ. _paltok_ «σακάκι, επανωφόρι» (αρχικώς χωρικού ή αγρότη), αγνώστου ετύμου.

It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.


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## Astrix

Acestor said:


> In my posting #2 I already mentioned the Triantafyllidis dictionary giving the Italian _palto_ as the more probable origin of the Greek. On the other hand, the Babiniotis dictionaries as well as the more recent dictionary of the Academy prefer the French origin.
> 
> To wit, the entry in the Babiniotis Etymological Dictionary reads:
> *παλτό* < γαλλ. _paletot _(από όπου το ιταλ. _palto_) < μέσο αγγλ. _paltok_ «σακάκι, επανωφόρι» (αρχικώς χωρικού ή αγρότη), αγνώστου ετύμου.
> 
> It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.


The importation from French on fashion and other commodities and facilities is a good explanation.


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## sotos

Could be cognate to  _felt, _and to romance words meaning "skin", and AGr πέλτη (since some shields were made of skins),.


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## Astrix

sotos said:


> Could be cognate to  _felt, _and to romance words meaning "skin", and AGr πέλτη (since some shields were made of skins),.


I didn't know this meaning of "felt", so there is a similarity, anything that covers someone has a "pelt" kind of root.


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## ioanell

Acestor said:


> It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.



I quite agree. The borrowing of the word from French is adequately explained, if we consider the massive importation of French words and phrases, in connection especially with diplomacy and fashion, after the establishment of the Greek State in 1830.  

As for the Middle English word, it may be “paltock” and not “paltok”. See Paltock | Meaning of Paltock by Lexico


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## sotos

Don't forget _parka_.


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## bearded

Acestor said:


> *παλτό* < γαλλ. _paletot _(από όπου το ιταλ. _palto_)


Exactly!
Cf. Etimologia : palto
And we pronounce 'paltò' (like in Greek) to retain the original French stress.


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## Helleno File

bearded said:


> Exactly!
> Cf. Etimologia : palto
> And we pronounce 'paltò' (like in Greek) to retain the original French stress.


French specialists may correct me but my memory of school/university French is that it is language with _equally_ stressed syllables.  The prime example for English learners is _chocolat_ which we have to remember has three syllables unlike the English equivalent which is mostly pronounced with only two! French depends on intonation of course.


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## bearded

Helleno File said:


> French is ... language with _equally_ stressed syllables.


Maybe, but to the ears of all non-French people, most words sound as stressed on the last syllable.  Even my first name Dario (pron. Dàrio) becomes Darió when I go to France.    
But I propose that we drop this, since we are off-topic here.


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## ioanell

bearded said:


> to the ears of all non-French people, most words sound as stressed on the last syllable



I agree, ...just think of...Peugeot, Renault and...Citroën.


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