# Agua de jamaica



## Giessi

Hola a todos

Espero que alguien pueda ayudarme con esta traduccion, es para un restaurante. En Mexico hay entre las aguas naturales una que se hace con flor de jamaica. Es de color rojo. Se hace hirviendo las flores y luego se le pone azucar cuando enfria.

Alguien sabe como decirlo en ingles?
Pensaba ponerlo como "jamaica water" pero no se si alguien sepa algo mejor.
Se me ocurrio en referencia al agua de horchata, que se le conoce como "rice water"

Gracias a todos


----------



## Yuribear

Hola Giessi, 

El agua de jamaica es en realidad la flor del hibisco... por lo que acá en California se le llama "hybiscus drink". (y a la horchata.... "rice drink")

Saludos


----------



## Txiri

"Jamaica water" doesn´t ring a bell. I had to look up what you´re talking about. I would translate it as "hibiscus infusion" or tea

I also wouldn´t call your horchata "rice water" but perhaps "milk" instead, especially if it´s whitish in color.

And "horchata" means something very different in Spain:

"the original and ancient recipe for Horchata from Chufa (Tiger Nut). Horchata made from chufa nut tastes completely different than Mexican Horchata made from rice. Don't confuse the two because they have nothing in common."


----------



## Chaucer

Txiri said:
			
		

> "I would translate it as "hibiscus infusion" or tea.
> "



First of all, Txire, I appreciate the quality of your contributions in this forum.

Now, Txire: you would walk into a Mexican restaurant, say with English speaking friends, see "agua de jamaica" on the beverage menu, and you would turn to your friends and actually say, "I think I'll have some 'hibiscus infusion' with my meal"? Would you really? It is usually served cold or at room temperature, to refresh. What do you say "hibiscus drink" may be a better fit.


----------



## Txiri

Chaucer said:
			
		

> First of all, Txire, I appreciate the quality of your contributions in this forum.
> 
> Now, Txire: you would walk into a Mexican restaurant, say with English speaking friends, see "agua de jamaica" on the beverage menu, and you would turn to your friends and actually say, "I think I'll have some 'hibiscus infusion' with my meal"? Would you really? It is usually served cold or at room temperature, to refresh. What do you say "hibiscus drink" may be a better fit.


 
Thank you, Chaucer.  In any event, I don´t mind commentaries, they provoke thought.

In your hypothetical scenario, I wouldn´t have a problem with "hibiscus water", "hibiscus tea", "hibiscus drink", "hibiscus infusion", "hibiscus" anything.  The manner in which its preparation was described, leaves me to think it is an infusion.  (I have a book on the use of herbs which says:  "A decoction is a concentrated brew made by gently simmering "tougher" forms or parts of herbs such as roots, barks, and woody stems (either fresh or dried).  It is different from an infusion which is a concentrate made by steeping (not simmering) the more delicate parts of the herb such as leaves, flowers, light stems, etc."  I personally wouldn´t expect a tea or infusion to have to be served hot, even though it´s made with hot water, after all, iced tea is a common item on restaurant menus in the US.  But these are my thoughts, and if two of you have voted for "hibiscus drink", that´s fine with me.


----------



## Corcega

Iced tea is tea (black tea) that is served cold, Nowadays we can enjoy green iced tea also, cold chai, etc. 
*Agua de jamaica* is a cold beverage very popular in Mexico. It is an infusion of the jamaica flower (hibiscus) served cold and lightly sweetened (some times it could be very sweet, depend on your preference). I think that you could call it “*cold iced **jamaica** (or hibiscus) tea*” it would be correct and clear. if you call it “jamaica water” you might have to explain what is it. Albeit shorter I find it very literal.
 ​


----------



## Giessi

Thank you so much to all of you

Great contributions!!!


----------



## Miguelillo 87

Hey I have a new question for this topic.

How should I pronounce it? the problem I have with the pronuncciation is in the *HY*biscus 
Should I say this hy as in *Hi*lary or as in *HI*gh?

Thanks all


----------



## frida-nc

Hi Miguelillo,
This is a word where you can choose the pronunciation you like.  It's Latin.  There have been arguments about it on several web pages (just google hibiscus pronunciation).

My preference: Hillary.  But I'm outnumbered, I think.
Saludos.


----------



## Yuribear

Actually it is pronounced as in high. You can listen to it here: hibiscus
Saludos.


----------



## frida-nc

My Oxford (both online and the big printed one) have the short i (hih-bis-cus). So as I said, it's not a 100% vote, though "high" is common here.

Anyway, Viva Agua de jamaica--delicious.


----------



## Miguelillo 87

Well thank you very much, Yuribear, and frida, I give the options 'cause I didn't have any idea.
Anyway now everything is clearer


----------



## lapachis8

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Hey I have a new question for this topic.
> 
> How should I pronounce it? the problem I have with the pronuncciation is in the *HY*biscus
> Should I say this hy as in *Hi*lary or as in *HI*gh?
> 
> Thanks all


 
Miguelillo:
En este link, si das click a la bocinita puedes oir la pronunciación. Es con i latina, no con y griega, hibiscus.
saludos


----------



## aurilla

The infusion obtained from the Hibiscus sabdariffa *flower* when served as a cold *drink* is called "*jamaica*". It is also known as *"Jamaica drink."*


----------



## Miguelillo 87

More thanks, and more thanks.


----------



## lapachis8

¡De nanche!
saludos


----------



## ErroldeJamaica

Hello to everyone
Agua de Jamaica is also a drink we have in the Island of Jamaica in the Caribbean. It is made from a plant that is from the Hibiscus family. In Jamaica we call it *Sorrel.* It is usually available in abundance netween November and January. It is a part of the Jamaican Christmas tradtional Drink.I think a number of other Caribean islands call it Sorrel also.


----------



## Archicaballero

ErroldeJamaica said:


> Hello to everyone
> Agua de Jamaica is also a drink we have in the Island of Jamaica in the Caribbean. It is made from a plant that is from the Hibiscus family. In Jamaica we call it *Sorrel.* It is usually available in abundance netween November and January. It is a part of the Jamaican Christmas tradtional Drink.I think a number of other Caribean islands call it Sorrel also.


 
Is sorrel an English word? I am just asking...

Thanks!


----------



## lapachis8

Hola:
Si recurres al viejo truco del diccionario encuentras:

*sorrel*  (n.)

"small perennial plant," c.1400, from O.Fr. _surele_ (12c.), from _sur_ "sour," from Frankish _*sur_ (cf. O.H.G., O.E. _sur_ "sour;" see sour). So called for the taste of its leaves.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

Te recomiendo que leas las demás definiciones para sorrel en el enlace y añádelo a tus favoritos. es muy buen diccionario. 
Saludos


----------



## Archicaballero

¡ Gracias por tu contribución! 
__


----------



## frida-nc

Y he encontrado información sobre "Jamaican sorrel" (una planta diferente, Hibiscus sabdariffa).


----------



## ErroldeJamaica

My understanding is that the word* Sorrel* is an English word derived from an Old English word* sorel* which derived from the Old German word *sur *(sour), which came by the French word *surele*


----------



## frida-nc

Errol, look at post 19.


----------



## ErroldeJamaica

Thank you Frida


----------



## fenixpollo

Moderator note: Please stick to the original question, which was looking for a translation of "agua de jamaica". Other topics of conversation (for example, translations of "agua de horchata" or recipes for agua de jamaica) can be discussed in other threads or other forums.


----------



## La golondrina del desiert

Here in New Mexico (USA) everyone calls it “Jamaica” whether English speaking , Spanish Speaking, or Bilingual.  If you go to the convenience store or café to buy a drink, its label only says Jamaica- with no reference to Hibiscus.   Kool-Aid® brand powdered drink mix is now widely available throughout the U.S. in this flavor;: it is labeled only "Jamaica."  "Hibiscus infusion" "sounds a bit stilted to me. If I had a restaurant, I would label it Jamaica and explain when asked by English speakers- it gives the waiter/waitress a chance to tell more about the interesting specialties of the café.


----------



## LosTigres

"Espero que alguien pueda ayudarme con esta traducción, es para un restaurante. En México hay entre las aguas naturales una que se hace con flor de Jamaica. Es de color rojo. Se hace hirviendo las flores y luego se le pone azúcar cuando enfría. Alguien sabe como decirlo en inglés?"

Hola!

Si tienes un restaurante y quieres ponerlo en un menú bilingüe para que todos los turistas entiendan: te recomiendo "Natural Hibiscus Flavored Cooler."

El nombre correcto en México de la planta es "Flor de Jamaica". El agua de Flor de Jamaica (que por pereza e ignorancia comúnmente se llama en México Agua de Jamaica) no se prepara exactamente con las flores (pétalos) de la planta. Se prepara con la parte de la planta que sostiene la flor que se llama el cáliz e incluye unas hojas verdes y las semillas, como una vaina.

Como parecen flores secas y el paquete dice flor de Jamaica, la gente en gran parte ha ignorado que el nombre correcto de la planta es "Flor de Jamaica", con "Flor" integrado, y erróneamente cree que es la flor de alguna planta que se llama "Jamaica", porque solo conoce el agua fresca. No existe una planta que se llame solo "Jamaica"!!! El caso es como la planta "Flor de la Pasión". No vamos a llamarla en inglés "Passion Plant" si solo conocemos la flor. Es "Passion Flower Plant".

El problema es aún más grave, porque aquí la gente erróneamente llama el hibisco, "Tulipán". Pero los botánicos en la UNAM, etc., te podrían decir que La Flor de Jamaica solo es una especie de hibisco y no es la popular que los ignorantes llaman Tulipán, y por eso la planta es desconocida casi totalmente en México.

En fin, "Agua de Jamaica" no se puede traducir palabra por palabra con sentido, ya que ahora es como un modismo. El tulipán es el "tulip" tipo de Holanda en todo el mundo fuera de México, incluyendo en otros países hispanos. Pero en un arreglo de flores el hibisco común más o menos semeja un Tulipán verdadero tipo de Holanda, y así es otro producto de ignorancia. O sea, si tratamos de traducirlo, vamos a llamar el agua "Tulip Tea" o algo así, y en español mexicano Agua de Tulipán 

Ni la planta Flor de Jamaica ni el Tulipán mexicano son endémicos en México. La primera nos llegó a México desde la isla de Jamaica (allá los esclavos la introdujeron desde África junto con la bebida popular en 1710) y le pusimos "Flor de Jamaica" (_Hibiscus sabdariffa)_ a la planta, y el "Tulipán" (_Hibiscus rosa-sinensis_) es originario de la China - nada que ver con cultura mexicana. 

Solo en México y en El Salvador, se llama "Flor de Jamaica", y el agua tiene otros nombres en diversas partes del mundo. En el Sudan, se encuentra la mejor calidad de la misma agua y allá se llama Té Sudanés "Sudanese Tea". En casi todos los países de Europa se llama “karkade” (su nombre en árabe), y en los Estados Unidos hace cien años era muy popular en la Florida y los cálices se llamaban “Florida Cranberries”.

Un abrazo desde Monterrey!


----------



## bailarín

La golondrina del desiert said:


> Here in New Mexico (USA) everyone calls it “Jamaica” whether English speaking , Spanish Speaking, or Bilingual. If you go to the convenience store or café to buy a drink, its label only says Jamaica- with no reference to Hibiscus. Kool-Aid® brand powdered drink mix is now widely available throughout the U.S. in this flavor;: it is labeled only "Jamaica." "Hibiscus infusion" "sounds a bit stilted to me. If I had a restaurant, I would label it Jamaica and explain when asked by English speakers- it gives the waiter/waitress a chance to tell more about the interesting specialties of the café.


 
I agree with La Golondrina. When I lived in California, Arizona and Nevada, we would just call it by its name: "jamaica" or "horchata." If you go into a Mexican restaurant, that's how it would be ordered. If you ask for a hibiscus drink or rice drink, it sounds terrible. You can translate it if you want, but in my opinion, I think you can just say "(agua de) jamaica" o "horchata," and most people will understand you.


----------



## Pilarcita la linda

In wikipedia they call it "hibiscus tea" as you can see here 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus_tea
So now I'm confused as to which is the most commonly used name in the United States, is it Jamaica or Hibiscus tea or Horchata?  I'm translating a cooking show where they mention this beverage so I'm not sure which of all I should use.  Please help.


----------



## LosTigres

Hi Yuribear,

The most widely used name in the US is Hibiscus Tea, though by Jamaican influence just Sorrel, or, Roselle tea are also a fine contenders. Hibiscus is a common ingredient in many herbal teabags and this is nothing new - always going by the name Hibiscus for herbal teas in the US.

Let me suggest you use this as a rule of thumb: If you want to call your a bacon and eggs dish "huevos con tocino" instead of bacon and eggs, then use "Agua de Flor de Jamaica" as the proper Mexican name, if you would use "Bacon and Eggs, then use "Hibiscus tea" or if you want to be more accurate you could use "Hibiscus cooler", which is not a traditional name but is a perfect translation in current cuisine that fits fine into an English language translation as well and has also been used. Another way to make the decision, if you would call it Chamomile tea instead of Te de Manzanilla, Hibiscus Tea would be the better selection. Sure you can buy the Manzanilla from Mexican ethnic places too, but that doesn't mean you should call it Manzanilla instead of Chamomile in English for accurate translation. Like Hibiscus, chamomile has an illustrious history of use in the USA for anyone interested to learn about it!

The confusion is because many people are not used to making tea by boiling leaves, but in the 1950's, when the popularity of doing this for Hibiscus tea waned in the USA due to marketing prepackaging into tea bag packets people forgot about it and now it is resurfacing because Mexico is one source (but definitely not the largest producer in the world). 

Hibiscus Tea had been around for ages in the US and is in most of the world. If your project does not have a strong ethnic component and is more for everyone, Hibiscus tea is the way to go. The beverage is known by many names throughout the world, one of which is Agua de Flor de Jamaica, though in Spain it has a different name. For any professional work you definitely don't want to use "Jamaica" since that also erroneously refers to the "Flor de Jamaica" plant itself which is the common delicious species of Hibiscus.

In Mexico the Jamaican Sorrel plant (Hibiscus) is called "Flor de Jamaica", but it is not a widely grown ornamental as it was at one time when there was actually a basis for what it was called that beautified yards, especially in a hedge planting format. I've actually grown it since the 1970's and eat the leaves and make the tea and in English calling the tea "Jamaica" sounds wrong. In Miami it has been called Hibiscus tea for a long time which it is a traditional drink going back well over a hundred years. When I speak Spanish it's fine, though it sounds to me like someone is calling huevos rancheros just "rancheros", and forgetting what they really are. At the agricultural university it is simply called by its scientific name Hibiscus sabdariffa, and occasionally Hibisco.

Best luck!

Edit: Hibiscus tea and horchata are two different drinks, so horchata is not a translation option for the Hibiscus cooler.  Horchata was mentioned above only because some people saw parallels with its translation issues (which I don't agree with as an apples to apples comparison, but respect that point of view for this unrelated theme).  Other than both being available in Mexico, one has nothing to do with the other and horchata is not applicable for Hibicus translations.


----------



## tonyspeed

There is a big difference between regular hibiscus and sorrel which specifically refers only to the kind used to make a drink. There are hundreds of kinds of hibiscus but only one sorrel.


----------

