# you haven't even met him yet!



## carolinskaya

Ciao! 
Non sono sicura di aver tradotto bene questa frase in rosso e questo è il contesto: " .... but don't you want to see your new nephew? He's a few months old already and you haven't even met him yet!". Per me sarebbe: " non lo hai nemmeno ancora visto !". Spero sia corretta la mia interpretazione.
Grazie.


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## Wonder_Donnie

Sì va bene, meglio dire: "ancora non l'hai nemmeno visto"


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## carolinskaya

Ok! grazie!


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## You little ripper!

"To meet" means *conoscere*.  Maybe "ancora non l'hai nemmeno conosciuto"?


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## carolinskaya

Ah si! giusto!


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## effeundici

Ma no dai, un bambino piccolo non lo si _*conosce* _né lo si _*incontra*_, lo si va semplicemente a _*vedere*_


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## You little ripper!

effeundici said:


> Ma no dai, un bambino piccolo non lo si _*conosce* _né lo si _*incontra*_, lo si va semplicemente a _*vedere*_


F11, most people would say "you haven't even seen him yet", but the word "met" is actually used in this case. Does using the verb "conoscere" of a baby totally ridiculous?


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## effeundici

Secondo me in italiano farebbe sorridere, Charles

_Ieri siamo andati a conoscere il bambino di Francesca...._naaaaaahhhhh!



Charles Costante said:


> F11, most people would say "you haven't even seen him yet", but the word "met" is actually used in this case. Does using the verb "conoscere" of a baby totally ridiculous?


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## renminds

Charles Costante said:


> F11, most people would say "you haven't even seen him yet", but the word "met" is actually used in this case. Does using the verb "conoscere" of a baby totally ridiculous?



In my opinion, it doesn't at all.
I think that using "vedere" of a baby can be a little ridiculous, it's a bad habit of ours like If we went and see a painting instead of a baby.



effeundici said:


> Secondo me in italiano farebbe sorridere, Charles
> 
> _Ieri siamo andati a conoscere il bambino di Francesca...._naaaaaahhhhh!



As I said, this comes maybe from the idea you got. When I think of a grandmother speaking with her husband of their little nephew, I can imagine she saying "meet" as naturally, she already considers the baby a person to meet.
I hope being clear.

Try to take a look at conoscere #2a-b on DeMauro.

Bye,
Renminds


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## You little ripper!

effeundici said:


> Secondo me in italiano farebbe sorridere, Charles
> 
> _Ieri siamo andati a conoscere il bambino di Francesca...._naaaaaahhhhh!


Thanks F11. A lot of people here might react in the same way to the word "meet" in relation to a baby. As I said earlier most would use the word "see". I'd be interested to know if Italians from different parts of the country feel the same way. 

P.S. Thank you, Renminds.


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## effeundici

Mah, sono molto perplesso.

Almeno in Toscana non mi sembra proprio che nessuno usi _conoscere un neonato. _E poi mi torna anche visto che, come dice il De Mauro, conoscere significa entrare in relazione con qualcuno. E con un neonato è impossibile entrare in relazione visto che  non ne ha ancora la capacità


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## miri

I get your point, Ren, but we just don't use "conoscere" for a a baby who's a few months old.


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## You little ripper!

renminds said:


> In my opinion, it doesn't at all.
> I think that using "vedere" of a baby can be a little ridiculous, it's a bad habit of ours like If we went and see a painting instead of a baby.


I agree. That's exactly why most people use the word "see" in relation to a baby in English! They see the baby as a prize exhibit at the museum or at a flower show. I personally think that the word "met" is actually more appropriate because a baby is a living being, not an inanimate object. But I'm only speaking from the English point of view.


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## miri

As F11 pointed out, we say "vedere" because it is actually very difficult to establish a relationship with a baby, unless you are his/her mother. As soon as the baby becomes a child and interaction becomes possible we'd use different terms.


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> As F11 pointed out, we say "vedere" because it is actually very difficult to establish a relationship with a baby, unless you are his/her mother. As soon as the baby becomes a child and interaction becomes possible we'd use different terms.


In English the word 'meet' means _to get to know_ or _to get acquainted_, so it's perfectly appropriate in relation to a baby, miri. Doesn't 'conoscere' have a similar meaning in Italian?


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## Wonder_Donnie

Conoscere can also mean: avere un primo approccio, incontrare. It doesn't necessarily indicate a "deep acquaintance".
Example: _Lo conosco solo di vista_ which means I've met him but I'm not used to socialize with him. I don't speak with him but his face is quite familiar to me.


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## You little ripper!

Daniele1090 said:


> Conoscere can also mean: avere un primo approccio, incontrare. It doesn't necessarily indicate a "deep acquaintance".
> Example: _Lo conosco solo di vista_ which means I've met him but I'm not used to socialize with him. I don't speak with him but his face is quite familiar to me.


Thank you Daniele. 'To meet' just means _to become acquainted _in English; there's nothing 'deep' about it.


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## icovada

Charles Costante said:


> "To meet" means *conoscere*.  Maybe "ancora non l'hai nemmeno conosciuto"?



To meet means "incontrare" not "conoscere".
So the translation is "non l'hai ancora nemmeno incontrato"


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## miri

Charles, "conoscere/incontrare" in the context of social relationships conveys an idea of  *mutual/reciprocal *acquaintance/recognition, which is not the case with a baby...


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## You little ripper!

icovada said:


> To meet means "incontrare" not "conoscere".
> So the translation is "non l'hai ancora nemmeno incontrato"


According to CdS dictionary (definition 6) it also means 'conoscere'.

*meet*

1 v. (past, p.p. *met*)

_(to become acquainted with) conoscere, incontrare, fare la conoscenza di.
_


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Charles, "conoscere/incontrare" in the context of social relationships conveys an idea of  *mutual/reciprocal *acquaintance/recognition, which is not the case with a baby...


The eyesight of a baby may not have developed fully until it's about 6 months of age, but doesn't a baby of 'a few months' (Carol's sentence) have the ability to recognize, miri? I haven't had any children (well, not in this life anyway ) but I assume that they do. Or maybe it's telepathic.


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## federicoft

renminds said:


> In my opinion, it doesn't at all.
> I think that using "vedere" of a baby can be a little ridiculous, it's a bad habit of ours like If we went and see a painting instead of a baby.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, this comes maybe from the idea you got. When I think of a grandmother speaking with her husband of their little nephew, I can imagine she saying "meet" as naturally, she already considers the baby a person to meet.
> I hope being clear.
> 
> Try to take a look at conoscere #2a-b on DeMauro.
> 
> Bye,
> Renminds



Would you _really_ use the verb "conoscere" of a baby?

_"Non ho ancora conosciuto mio nipote"_ instead of _"non ho ancora visto mio nipote"_?
Needless to say, I agree with miri and F11.


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## miri

Adesso ci provo in italiano così, forse, mi faccio capire meglio
Quando si pensa alla frase "piacere di conoscerti", ad esempio, ci si immagina due persone entrambe in grado di capire i segnali/le parole/i gesti, insomma il linguaggio dell'altro. Tra un neonato e un adulto sconosciuto non c'è reciprocità. Anche se il bambino ha  sicuramente un modo tutto suo di esprimersi, la fase in cui emette segnali *intenzionali* verso, ripeto, un adulto ignoto, viene più avanti. Questo è un periodo in cui il rapporto significativo è solo con il caregiver, con cui il bambino si sente, fra l'altro, un tutt'uno. 
Finchè non riesce a percepirsi come individuo differenziato e separato, non è capace di intrattenere relazioni. Da qui ha più senso dire che si va a *vedere *un bambino, piuttosto che ad incontrarlo, poichè incontrarlo/conoscerlo presuppone una risposta che il bimbo non sa ancora dare.


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Adesso ci provo in italiano così, forse, mi faccio capire meglio
> Quando si pensa alla frase "piacere di conoscerti", ad esempio, ci si immagina due persone entrambe in grado di capire i segnali/le parole/i gesti, insomma il linguaggio dell'altro. Tra un neonato e un adulto sconosciuto non c'è reciprocità. Anche se il bambino ha  sicuramente un modo tutto suo di esprimersi, la fase in cui emette segnali *intenzionali* verso, ripeto, un adulto ignoto, viene più avanti. Questo è un periodo in cui il rapporto significativo è solo con il caregiver, con cui il bambino si sente, fra l'altro, un tutt'uno.
> Finchè non riesce a percepirsi come individuo differenziato e separato, non è capace di intrattenere relazioni. Da qui ha più senso dire che si va a *vedere *un bambino, piuttosto che ad incontrarlo, poichè incontrarlo/conoscerlo presuppone una risposta che il bimbo non sa ancora dare.


Thank you for the explanation, miri. 

 When it comes to English, I can understand someone using the word "see" if that's literally all that person is going to do - peer over the top of the bassinette, make some inane remark about how beautiful it is, and then get back to the cup of tea the baby's mother has made for him/her. If, however, they were to gently poke the baby in the chest or grab it by the chin and say "coochi coochi coo", it has gone beyond 'seeing' in my opinion.


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## miri

In that case, you'd use "conoscere" only if the baby got up from his/her bassinet and said "Stop hassling me, you jerk!"


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> In that case, you'd use "conoscere" only if the baby ............. said "Stop hassling me, you jerk!"


But they do, miri. If you were to put the blood-curdling scream that shortly follows the chest poking through a descrambler, you would hear those exact words, or variations thereof. In the case of an Australian baby it would be "Rack off!".


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## miri

Well, also animals (and, according to some researchers, plants too) react to external stimula, but I've never happened to hear anyone saying "Let me introduce you to my hamster"  or "I've met Mary's cactus!"


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Well, also animals (and, according to some researchers, plants too) react to external stimula, but I've never happened to hear anyone saying "Let me introduce you to my hamster"  or "I've met Mary's cactus!"


We actually do use the word 'meet' in relation to animals (especially cats and dogs which are treated like many people's children here). For example, if I had just moved into a house in a share accomodation situation where a cat or dog was part of the household, and I was seen patting or stroking the said animal by one of my flatmates, s/he might say "I see you've _met_ Max", not "I see you've _seen_ Max". So I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone said to me "Let me introduce you to my hamster".


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## effeundici

Mi sembra che comunque, nel parlare, alla fine state trascurando il fatto che _to meet _significa anche (ovviamente) _incontrare _e non _conoscere_.

_Conoscere _ha un significato molto più forte e coinvolgente di _incontrare._

Anche se comunque non diremmo lo stesso _ieri ho incontrato un bambino di 6 mesi_


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## miri

Yes, we might say "Vedo che hai fatto conoscenza con Max", but I don't think you'd ever say "Why don't you come over and meet my cat", unless you were joking.
Anyway, I think the point is that in Italian it would sound veeery weird


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Yes, we might say "Vedo che hai fatto conoscenza con Max", but I don't think you'd ever say "Why don't you come over and meet my cat", unless you were joking.


Yes, we would miri. That's obviously where the English and Italian words differ.


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## miri

Good to know, Charles! But since this time we have to translate from English into Italian, going back to the original question, I guess the most likely translation would be "Ha già alcuni mesi e non l'hai ancora *visto".*


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## Einstein

My personal view (British, not Australian) is that you *see* an new-born baby. If I said to a friend, "Yesterday I *met* Angela's baby girl", he might ask me, "What did she say, is she an interesting person?"


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## You little ripper!

Einstein said:


> My personal view (British, not Australian) is that you *see* an new-born baby. If I said to a friend, "Yesterday I *met* Angela's baby girl", he might ask me, "What did she say, is she an interesting person?"


Einstein, even in Australia most people would say, "Yesterday, I saw Angela's baby". The fact of the matter is that carolinskaya's question related to a translation of "and you haven't even *met* him yet" of a 2 month year old baby. There are even a few Google listings for the very specific "met her baby yet" so some people do say it. I've already explained in Post 13 why I don't consider it strange. The Google listings appear to be American but I'd be interested to know the origin of the person using it in caolinskaya's example (if she knows).


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## Einstein

Well, Charles, I think your Google search says a lot:

"met her baby yet":  5
"seen her bay yet":  266

Of course you can talk about meeting a baby, but it's far more common to say "see", for the reasons that others have said.


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## carolinskaya

Charles Costante said:


> Einstein, even in Australia most people would say, "Yesterday, I saw Angela's baby". The fact of the matter is that carolinskaya's question related to a translation of "and you haven't even *met* him yet" of a 2 month year old baby. There are even a few Google listings for the very specific "met her baby yet" so some people do say it. I've already explained in Post 13 why I don't consider it strange. The Google listings appear to be American but I'd be interested to know the origin of the person using it in caolinskaya's example (if she knows).


 
Hi Charles!
The origin of this sentence is from the american book "The Devil wears Prada". I hope this helps!


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## You little ripper!

Einstein said:


> Well, Charles, I think your Google search says a lot:
> 
> "met her baby yet":  5
> "seen her bay yet":  266
> 
> Of course you can talk about meeting a baby, but it's far more common to say "see"......


Einstein, I agree (see Posts 7,10,13 and 34). 



> Hi Charles!
> The origin of this sentence is from the american book "The Devil wears Prada". I hope this helps!


Thank you, Carol! It would appear that some Americans and at least one Australian don't have a problem with it.


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## renminds

I want just to add that reading all these posts about "vedere", I noticed that we use - without knowledge of it - "vedere" with a wider meaning than just "see with eyes", a meaning that implies "conoscere" (this time see vedere on DeMauro to realize that it conveys this sort of meanings) because at the end we interact with the baby anyway, even if in a limited way.

Bye,
Renminds


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