# The loan sharks were sharking, the narcs were narcing



## CuervoGold

Hi everybody,

I'm trying to translate a song by John Prine ("Lake Marie") and I find it difficult to translate the highlighted verse (maybe some pun of words in it?):

_"The dogs were barking as the cars were parking
*The loan sharks were sharking, the narcs were narcing*
Practically everyone was there
In the parking lot by the forest preserve"_

My try: "Los usureros acechando como tiburones, los narcotraficantes ¿?"

Has he made up the word "_narcing_", like, I think but I'm not sure, he seems to have made up "_sharking_"? I'm not completely sure, that's why I'm asking here, in order to translate it.

Thank you very much!


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## Pablo Peligroso

This is typical of song lyrics.  It's creative play on the words and quite unusual.  I can't translate it but I can try to explain in English.  Maybe.

A *loan shark* is an unethical lender of money.  Prine is creating the term *sharking* to say, "They were doing their loan shark thing". 

He does the same thing with *narc *and *narcing *(pronounce it with hard C, like *ck *in duck)*.* Narc is just a narcotráficante and narcing is Prine's way to say, "Drug dealers selling their drugs." 

Quite good poetry, but quite unusual English that will only be understood by people familiar with what loan sharks and narcs are.


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## CuervoGold

Thank you very much, Pablo!

Are they made up verbs, then? If so, I have no problem to translate it (I can make up some words too). For example: Los usureros, "usureando", los narcotraficantes, "narcotrafiqueando".

But yesteday, after publishing this thread, I came across these meanings on a dictionary:

To shark
_v.tr._ _Archaic_
To obtain by deceitful or underhand means.
_v.intr._
To take advantage of others for personal gain, especially by fraud and trickery.

To narc
_intr.v._ narced, narc·ing, narcs
To act as an informer; snitch.

 _¿Los usureros estafando y los narcotraficantes chivándose? _(aunque no tiene ningún sentido que un narcotraficante se vaya de la lengua).


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## Mr.Dent

Pablo Peligroso said:


> A *loan shark* is an unethical lender of money. Prine is creating the term *sharking* to say, "They were doing their loan shark thing".
> 
> He does the same thing with *narc *and *narcing *(pronounce it with hard C, like *ck *in duck)*.* Narc is just a narcotráficante and narcing is Prine's way to say, "Drug dealers selling their drugs."


I agree.



CuervoGold said:


> Los usureros, "usureando", los narcotraficantes, "narcotrafiqueando".


That sounds good to me.


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## CuervoGold

Thank you, Mr. Dent and Pablo!


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## Pablo Peligroso

Mr.Dent said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> That sounds good to me.


Me too, although I am no hispanohablante.  Certainly it's creative Spanish where Prine used creative English.  This translation seems pretty good.

I'd hate to go through translating much Bob Dylan or other song writers!  They have to take liberties with the English in order to make it work with the beat of the music, and this can get VERY weird to figure out.


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## Ballenero

Pero usurero no significa que engañe, solo significa que obtiene un beneficio muy elevado.

Shark tiene dos posibilidades, aparecen en el diccionario de WR,
estafador, alguien que engaña o que actúa con falsedad y relacionado con jugar a las cartas, tahúr o tramposo. 

Yo no descartaría esta última.

E. Acabo de fijarme que dice: loan...
¿Tal vez prestamista?


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## Bevj

A _loan shark_ es un prestamista que cobra interesos abusivos.


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## gato radioso

_los usureros hacían sus cositas
y los camellos también..._


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## Mr.Dent

From the DRAE userero " 2. m. y f. Persona que presta con usura o interés excesivo. "
And that is exactly what a loan shark does. " Los usureros, "usureando" sounds perfect to me. It maintains the same type of conceit that Prine uses. I think it is a clever way to translate the song.

edit: The term loan shark has nothing to do with _engañar_. That was an archaic meaning of "shark" that has no relevance here. A loan shark just lends money at exorbitant rates pure and simple.


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## Pablo Peligroso

Bevj said:


> A _loan shark_ es un prestamista que cobra interesos abusivos.


PreCISAmente. 

Es parecido al Chupacabra en la forma de un ser humano.

Es fascinante que Prine eligió este concepto para crear una rincón de su paisaje de palabras.


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## Cenzontle

The Urban Dictionary  defines "narc" only as a narcotics officer or someone who turns you in to the narcotics police.
CuervoGold (#3) is on the right track with the verb meaning "To act as an informer; snitch."  
Also spelled "nark", it's someone who reports bad behavior.  Nothing there about traficantes.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

_Los usureros usureando
Los narcos, narqueando ..._


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## abeltio

Quizás:
Los usureros, usurando
Los traficantes, traficando

usurar | Diccionario de la lengua española
Según el DRAE, NO EXISTE usureando

traficante | Diccionario de la lengua española
Según el DRAE, traficante indica en "forma no lícita"
También está muy buena:

los narcos, narqueando


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## Ballenero

Cenzontle said:


> The Urban Dictionary  defines "narc" only as a narcotics officer or someone who turns you in to the narcotics police.
> CuervoGold (#3) is on the right track with the verb meaning "To act as an informer; snitch."
> Also spelled "nark", it's someone who reports bad behavior.  Nothing there about traficantes.


Lake Marie.
Estoy pensando que el tiburón usurero, en este caso, no es exactamente un prestamista.




_As the cars were parking_


Pablo Peligroso said:


> "They were doing their loan shark thing".


Yeah, they don't want any snitch around.

And when he says: we were standing,
he actually means: 5. Not movable.
I start thinking Lake Marie is not the idyllic place I thought.

_Los peces gordos/ Los camellos 
con sus chanchullos
y los soplones a lo suyo._


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## CuervoGold

Cenzontle said:


> The Urban Dictionary defines "narc" only as a narcotics officer or someone who turns you in to the narcotics police.
> CuervoGold (#3) is on the right track with the verb meaning "To act as an informer; snitch."
> Also spelled "nark", it's someone who reports bad behavior. Nothing there about traficantes.



Thank you all! Ballenero, existe el término "loan shark" y se traduce como "usurero". Es un término que existe ya, no se lo ha inventado el cantante. Pero ahora tengo otro problema:

*Wow, doesn't "narc" mean "narcotraficante", but "policía de narcóticos"?*

Then, I was completely wrong!!!


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## Bevj

Yp entiendo igual que tú. 
No creo que haya que tomar el verbo 'nark' en un sentido muy literal.
Pero no vamos a descubrir cuál es la interpretación correcta, me temo.


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## CuervoGold

¡Hola Bevj! ¿Te refieres a que entiendes "Narc" como narcotraficante? (Drug dealer).

Mirando diccionarios, la verdad es que la mayoría lo traducen como "Policía de narcóticos", no como "narcotraficantes". Me he quedado de piedra, qué confusión.


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## pollohispanizado

Yo personalmente solo he oído "narc" para hacer referencia o la policía antinarco o a los delatores, como arriba se dijo ("to narc on somebody" se usa como locución verbal que quiere decir "delatar a alguien a la policía").

Puede que el significado de "traficante" sea la aceptación antigua. Hoy día, en Norteamérica, no creo que se entendiera así.


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## CuervoGold

Gracias. No, es todo culpa mía. Es que en España sí que se utiliza la palabra "narco" para hablar de "narcotraficantes".

Buff, qué error, lo volveré a redactar, a ver si se me ocurre algo para mantener la estructura original del verso.


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## pollohispanizado

Ambas palabras, "narc" y ahora "narco", se usan aquí, ésta por influencia de las series y las pelis que tratan de los narcotraficantes (y obviamente tiene un significado opuesto a aquélla).


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## CuervoGold

Muchas gracias, pollohispanizado. Resumiendo:

- narcs: antidrugs officers / delatores o informantes
- narcos: drug dealers


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## pollohispanizado

CuervoGold said:


> narcos: drug dealers


I should add that "narcos" are exclusively from gangs that traffic drugs into North América from the South. (It can be kind of racist for that reason.) Nobody would call the random dealer on the corner a narco.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

As a side question, I would be interested in whether English-speaking readers would feel compelled to use an hyphen in these kind of new formed words ending with a  "-c", in order to suggest a "-k" sound.

_narc-ing_

I have been reading too many times "_syncing_" for "_sinchronizing_", "_synching_", and it hurts my eyes.


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## pollohispanizado

Definitely not a hyphen, though maybe a K, i.e. narking. Due to the Norman influence on spelling, English speakers tend to have internalized the difference between "soft c" and "hard c" (as well as soft/hard g). Synching with -ch- is an uncommonly spelt word, and also is a homophone of "sinking", which may be why people spell it "syncing" and forget the H.

Sidenote: English is notoriously horrible for representing new words using common spelling conventions. The slang for "usual" is "the [juʒ]", but there is no convincing or regular way to spell it so that it is universally read the same way (and certainly not one where it doesn't look absolutely atrocious).


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## CuervoGold

pollohispanizado said:


> solo he oído "narc" para hacer referencia o la policía antinarco o a los delatores, como arriba se dijo ("to narc on somebody" se usa como locución verbal que quiere decir "delatar a alguien a la policía").



Al final me he decantado por esta traducción:

*"Los usureros usureaban y los delatores delataban"*

Como "to narc" significa "delatar", entiendo que el sustantivo que le precede ("narc") tiene que traducirse como "delator" y no como "policía de narcótico", en este contexto concreto y una vez descartado que pueda referirse a un "drug dealer" (que sería un "narco" y no un "narc"). Creo que en realidad sí utiliza dos verbos existentes y no se los está inventando, como pensaba en un principio:

- to narc: to snitch
- to shark:  to take advantage of others for personal gain (el prestamista que cobra indebidamente)

Y de algún modo y como bien me decía Pablo Peligroso, Prine está enfatizando que esas personas están en ese escenario haciendo lo suyo, lo que normalmente hacen. Parece jugar con los sustantivos y los verbos derivados de esos sustantivos. Es un verso juguetón y difícil de traducir, la verdad, porque supone dejar de lado algunas interpretaciones y quedarse con una única acepción.

Si alguien lo tiene más claro, su opinión siempre será bienvenida. Gracias a todos por vuestra inestimable ayuda.


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## pollohispanizado

CuervoGold said:


> los delatores delataban


"...los sopladores soplaban..."? It's a very coloquial term, to narc.


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## yirgster

I have experience with the word _*narc*_. Don't ask. It's not exciting. I never saw it spelled with a 'k', not to say that it hasn't been.  But we're talking slang anyway.

*narc *- an undercover narcotics officer (whether from the police, DEA, whoever).​
I never heard it used to refer to drug dealers and so on.

Years ago I saw someone I knew walking around a student café area in the dorms with a large empty coffee can soliciting money. It was for her defense. Someone filled me in . She had been  _*busted*_--i.e., arrested--a day or two earlier after, I think, only offering a *narc* a joint--oops, I mean, marijuana cigarette--to smoke with her while in her apartment. Tough times back then.


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## CuervoGold

yirgster said:


> I think, only offering a *narc* a joint--oops, I mean, marijuana cigarette



That reminds me of a song by John Prine too: "_And you may see me tonight / with an illegal smile" (...) "Won't you please tell the man / I didn't kill anyone". _

So, friends, I'm kind of stuck. I'm not sure if I should go for "polis de narcóticos" or for "soplones":

_Narcs were narcing_

a) Los soplones estaban soplando

b) Los polis de narcóticos estaban a lo suyo (doing police work) ("_narcoteando" _)

*Maybe both are ok?* (If so, I can add some notes to my translation)*.* What comes to your mind when you first hear that verse?


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## pollohispanizado

I would definitely go with a).

(Note: Generally "narcs" are undercover cops or work for cops, so the relationship to the law is implied and understood. Los policías antinarcóticos hacían lo suyo al tener a sopladores en el barrio, ¿me explico?)


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## CuervoGold

pollohispanizado said:


> "narcs" are undercover cops or work for cops



Yes, I understand what you're saying. Thank you very much, you were a great help!

And thank you ALL for your kind help and your interesting opinions!


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