# For what purposes do people still use Hanja in South Korea?



## yuechu

大家好！

I was wondering how to ask "For what purposes do people still use Hanja (漢字) in South Korea nowadays?" in Chinese. I looked up "purpose" in the Wordreference dictionary, but am not sure which translation to choose. (possible answers to this question: scholarly purposes, to disambiguate homonyms, etc.)
Would anyone know how to translate this?
Thanks!


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## ovaltine888

For what purpose (出于什么目的) sounds a bit weird to my ears in this sentence, especially in its literal Chinese translation. It sounds like they are hiding some secrets or having an axe to grind.

I wonder whether you just want to ask why (为什么) or when (什么时候) Koreans still use Hanja in their language.

Or you can simply put 在什么情况下 (in what circumstances).


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## SimonTsai

為甚麼漢字在南韓 (現在) 還有人在用？

Note the word order. The topic comes first.


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## T.D

Translating "purpose" to 目的 sounds like there is a conspiracy involved. 原因 may be better. 

Or simply 为什么韩国人仍在（还在）使用汉字？


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## SuperXW

T.D said:


> Translating "purpose" to 目的 sounds like there is a conspiracy involved. 原因 may be better.


Doesn't the English word "purpose" sounds like conspiracy by itself? 
"For what reason" may be better even in English?



SimonTsai said:


> Note the word order. The topic comes first.


I never like the "topic first" theory. What does "topic" mean anyway...?

為甚麼*漢字*在南韓 (現在) 還有人在用？"Topic" (object) comes first.
为什么*韩国人*仍在（还在）使用汉字？People comes first.
为什么*韩国*还有人用汉字？Place comes first.
为什么*现在*还有韩国人用汉字？Time comes first.


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## T.D

SuperXW said:


> Doesn't the English word "purpose" sounds like conspiracy by itself?
> "For what reason" may be better even in English?


Hmm...that's interesting...on second thought, both 目的 and purpose are neutral words, they both means the reason for which something is done.


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## SuperXW

T.D said:


> Hmm...that's interesting...


ovaltine888 had the same thoughts in #2.


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## T.D

SuperXW said:


> ovaltine888 had the same thoughts in #2.


Yea, guess I'm thinking more into it than needed but, I insist that 韩国人还在使用汉字是出于什么目的 is just weird...

EDIT:

目的：for what purpose: what do they intend to achieve by doing so?
原因：for what reason: what makes them do so? 

I guess there are some subtle differences...


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## SimonTsai

SuperXW said:


> I never like the "topic first" theory. What does "topic" mean anyway...?


Oh, I should have made myself clear. I was not saying that topicalisation is the only possible choice in this case, but I was asking @yuechu to note that the sentence that I gave is such an example sentence. I think that it is noteworthy because, unlike English, which @yuechu speaks, Mandarin is a topic-dominant language. (I have the feeling that I am more into the topic-comment pattern than the average people here.)


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## yuechu

SuperXW said:


> Doesn't the English word "purpose" sounds like conspiracy by itself?


I think that "For what purposes" works in English (just like we say "for the purpose(s) of...") but "why" or "when" would be ok too. (I quite like Ovaltine888's 在什么情况下 a lot!) I checked with another native English speaker, and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the English "For what purposes...." that I can think of. (If there is though, do let me know!) Nothing at all to do with "conspiracies". I think it's just the literal translation in Chinese that might sound 别扭.
I have heard the word 目的 used with certain implications, and the English word "purpose" does not usually carry those. Not only that, the word "purpose" is so common in English...
Here is the first meaning of "purpose" on Dictionary.com: "the reason for which something exists or is done, made, used, etc."



SimonTsai said:


> 為甚麼漢字在南韓 (現在) 還有人在用？


This is good, but it sounds negative, right? I like the fact that Hanja is still used there. That's what I decided to use "for what purposes", to sound more neutral.

Thanks, everyone, for your help!


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## radagasty

T.D said:


> I insist that 韩国人还在使用汉字是出于什么目的 is just weird...



I tend to agree. Do we need to use so many words, and it is necessary to explicitly translate ‘purpose’ and ‘people’? They seem superfluous to me in Chinese. How about simply 韓國為何仍用漢字?


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## yuechu

Thanks for your suggestion, Radagasty!


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## Oswinw011

As weird as the "出于什么样的目的" sounds, I don't think "为什么" is a good stand-in for that phrase because, as explained in post #8, there are differences between the two. My translation would be: 韩国人仍在使用汉字的*目的有哪些*？or 韩国人仍在使用的汉字*用途有哪些？*

Differences between 为什么 and 目的有哪些:
1a.你为什么加入这个电影协会？答：因为我对电影很感兴趣。
1b.你加入这个电影协会的目的有哪些？答：因为我对电影很感兴趣。 答：一，因为我想提高对电影的鉴赏水平。二， 三，

2a.为什么韩国人仍在使用汉字？答：因为在韩国汉字可以用做姓名，而且韩国人不认为使用汉字姓名会带来不便。
2b.韩国人仍在使用汉字的目的有哪些？答：因为在韩国汉字可以用做姓名，而且韩国人不认为使用汉字姓名会带来不便。 答：一，为了保留汉字姓名的历史传统。 二，为了区分同音词。。三，

To sum up, "目的有哪些(哪些 indicates the plural)" focuses more on the motives and what they want to achieve using Hanja; "为什么" focuses on the causes, and what makes them use Hanja.


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## Skatinginbc

T.D said:


> for what reason...


何故, 因何...


T.D said:


> for what purpose...


為何, 為(了)什麼...


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## T.D

Skatinginbc said:


> 何故, 因何...
> 
> 為何, 為(了)什麼...


I think "为什么" actually covers both meanings. And 何故/因何/为何 might be too flowery for a casual, speaking situation.


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## SuperXW

I feel that simply asking "为什么-why" would be more friendly than "出于什么目的-for what purpose", both in Chinese and in English.


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## Skatinginbc

原文大致意思是: "現今南韓, 人們還使用漢字, 都是為了些什麼用途?"--"漢字在現今南韓的用途為何?"  
答案: "scholarly purposes, to disambiguate homonyms, etc." (see #1)


T.D said:


> 何故/因何/为何 might be too flowery for a casual, speaking situation.


我那不是翻譯建議, 而是看了你的帖子後的反應。


T.D said:


> I think "为什么" actually covers both meanings.


purpose: (1) the reason for which something exists or is done or created; (2) the function (i.e., what something is used for), aim, goal, or intention of doing something. ==> 這不恰巧也是 "covers both meanings"?


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## T.D

Skatinginbc said:


> purpose: (1) the reason for which something exists or is done or created; (2) the function (i.e., what something is used for), aim, goal, or intention of doing something. ==> 這不恰巧也是 "covers both meanings"?


The English word "purpose" covers both, while its Chinese counterpart 目的 does not.
And I think we are stretching too far from the OP。。。


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 何故, 因何...
> 
> 為何, 為(了)什麼...


我也看不懂Skating提出这两点的目的为何…… 
而且一如既往地，在skating那书面语/口语/古语/当代语/English是混合出现的。
扯远了扯远了……


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## ovaltine888

所以我觉得，问“在什么情况下韩国人仍会使用汉字？”会显得比较neutral, 语气上更加偏向了解事实真相，而非质问。

问“为什么”或“出于什么目的”是基于“韩国人仍在使用汉字”这个预设上，但是如果被询问者并不认同这个预设事实的话，就可能觉得有点尴尬吧。

所以上下文语境还是很重要，劈头盖脸提问，和有铺垫地提问是不一样的。


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## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> 我也看不懂Skating提出这两点的目的为何……


"For what reason" 相當於中文 "何故, 因何", "for what purpose" 相當於中文 "為何, 為(了)什麼",  所以, 我認為 radagasty 的建議 "韓國為何仍用漢字" (#11) 與 SimonTsai 的建議 "為甚麼漢字在南韓還有人在用" (#3) 已經把 "for what purposes" 翻譯出來了.


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## T.D

ovaltine888 said:


> 所以我觉得，直接问“在什么情况下韩国人仍会使用汉字？”会显得比较neutral, 语气上更加偏向了解事实真相，而非质问。


Umm...But the OP said "for what purpose", not "in what circumstance"



Skatinginbc said:


> radagasty 的建議 "韓國為何仍用漢字" (#11) 與 SimonTsai 的建議 "為甚麼漢字在南韓還有人在用" (#3) 已經把 "for what purposes" 翻譯出來了.


I personally like radagasty's version better, as I suggested in #4. Simon's 为什么汉字在南韩还有人在用 sounds like the speaker believed 汉字 should be abandoned long ago in South Korea. (Why are they still using it? It's ridiculous.)


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## ovaltine888

T.D said:


> Umm...But the OP said "for what purpose", not "in what circumstance"


I think there is something about the style of euphemism, just like "Give me your pen." versus "Would you mind lending me your pen?"

"In what circumstances", in my opinion,  is an indirect way to ask "why" without saying "why" in this sentence.


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## T.D

ovaltine888 said:


> I think there is something about the style of euphemism, just like "Give me your pen." versus "Would you mind lending me your pen?"
> 
> "In what circumstances", in my opinion,  is an indirect way to ask "why" without saying "why" in this sentence.


I would beg to differ. Imagine this:

A：In what circumstance will you use Chinese characters?
B: In formal writing, like a legal document or government announcement. 

The reason behind is not revealed. Is it a tradition? an attempt to avoid ambiguity? or just to look fancy? It's open to many guesses.


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## ovaltine888

T.D said:


> I personally like radagasty's version better, as I suggested in #4. Simon's 为什么汉字在南韩还有人在用 sounds like the speaker believed 汉字 should be abandoned long ago in South Korea. (Why are they still using it? It's ridiculous.)


Frankly speaking, I don't see much difference in tones between 为什么 and 为何。

We might feel the question offensive if we presumed that Hanji has been already abandoned in South Korea.



T.D said:


> I would beg to differ. Imagine this:
> 
> A：In what circumstance will you use Chinese characters?
> B: In formal writing, like a legal document or government announcement.
> 
> The reason behind is not revealed. Is it a tradition? an attempt to avoid ambiguity? or just to look fancy? It's open to many guesses.


When we ask why we have to presume that both of us have accepted the fact that "Hanja is still used by Koreans". It would be awkward for the asker if the answerer did not believe so. So we would rather choose to play safe when posing this question because it is generally believed that "Koreans no longer use Hanja".

Asking "in what circumstances" is a strategy to give yourself an option of concession because in this tone you are uncertain about the fact that "Hanja is still used by Koreans" and you could end the question decently if the answerer replied, "No, there is no such circumstance." If not, you could continue to ask why with little risk of embarrassment.

A conversation is dynamic and the context is critical.


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## T.D

I guess it's not about 为什么 vs 为何, but how the sentence is structured. To me, for some reason, 韩国为何还在使用汉字 sounds like a neutral question, but 为什么汉字在韩国还有人在用 sounds like a rebuke. But to be honest I can't explain why...perhaps it's just a personal thing.

为什么有的人会吃榴莲？ (I want to know why some people like durian)
为什么榴莲还有人吃？ (WTF? I can't believe there are people like durian)
But again, I'm starting to think it's a bias of mine.


And by asking "for what purpose do people in South Korea still use Hanja?", the asker DOES have a presumption, which I believe is something shouldn't be changed just because we, as translators, feel it might be inappropriate.


EDIT: 
A bit of thinking: Perhaps it is because the "still" in the original sentence is translated to "还", which makes the Chinese sentence sounds like a rhetorical question, which is often more aggressive than normal questions.


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