# Urdu: Huduur, Aap...



## Todd The Bod

I've heard that Muslims use the above terms to refer to their prophet of Islam.  Could you give a sentence using each and any other high register words used to refer to him?


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## UrduMedium

Huzuur ne farmaaya, a3maal kaa daar-o-madaar niyyaat par hai (the messenger said, actions are by their intentions)

aap is used as a third person pronoun to refer to the prophet. You can substitute Huzuur to aap in the sentence above. 

His name is frequently followed by Arabic phrase sallallahu 3alaihi wasaallam (may God's peace and blessings be upon him, often shortened as pbuh).

There are many names/titles used for the prophet. Some from the top of my head are:

rasuul ullaah (messenger of God)
nabii-e-kariim (the generous prophet)
rasuul-i-kariim (the generous messenger)
nabii-i-aakhir-uz-zamaan (prophet of the end/latter days of time)
muhammad-i-mustafaa - Muhammad the chosen/elevated
as-saadiq - the thuthful
al-amiin - the trustworthy
sarkaar-i-do-3aalam - leader (?) of the two worlds
xaatam-ul-anbiyaa' - the last/seal of the prophets


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## Todd The Bod

Beautiful, but you appear to have left the one word I know, out.  lol  Peyghaamvar.  Is that right, and is it used the same way Medium Sab?


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## Alfaaz

پیغمبر paighambar (shortened form of):پیغام بر paighaam bar


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## UrduMedium

Todd The Bod said:


> Beautiful, but you appear to have left the one word I know, out.  lol  Peyghaamvar.  Is that right, and is it used the same way Medium Sab?


You are right, I missed it. _paiGhambar _(or less frequently_ paiGhaambar_) literally means messenger and is also commonly used in Urdu.


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## Todd The Bod

You guys here are walking encyclopedias!  Thanks, guys!


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## BP.

Todd The Bod said:


> I've heard that Muslims use the above terms to refer to their prophet of Islam.  Could you give a sentence using each and any other high register words used to refer to him?


Huzuur, if we really think about is, isn't a correct word to use, because it refers to a presence*, and I think should not be used to refer to people who are no longer among us.
* I mean in the way we observe the presence of each other. There's the notional branch that the nabiyiin are still physically and consciously present after their passing away, as Muusaa 3alayhis salaam was observed worshiping in his grave.

aap is being used in this manner. Using woh would be lack of respect.



Todd The Bod said:


> ...that Muslims use the above terms  to refer to their prophet*s* of Islam. ...used to refer to *them, individually*?


My edition in bold.


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## BP.

UrduMedium said:


> ...
> sarkaar-i-do-3aalam - leader (?) of the two worlds
> ...


Wouldn't that tantamount to copyright violation of the Divine (_shirk_)? Many of the cultural catchphrases we've coined I think actually lie outside the Islamic understanding of reality!


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Huzuur, if we really think about is, isn't a correct word to use, because it refers to a presence*, and I think should not be used to refer to people who are no longer among us.
> * I mean in the way we observe the presence of each other. There's the notional branch that the nabiyiin are still physically and consciously present after their passing away, as Muusaa 3alayhis salaam was observed worshiping in his grave.


I hear more and more people objecting to this kind of address but I see no issue. _HuDhuur _/ _Huzuur_  is being used only as a mark of respect! There is no need to get  oursleves entangled in the more literalist interpretations that seem to  be on the rise.



BelligerentPacifist said:


> aap is being used in this manner. Using woh would be lack of respect.



By the same argument one shouldn't use _aap_! We don't use _aap_ for dead people!


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Originally Posted by *UrduMedium*                                  ...
> sarkaar-i-do-3aalam - leader (?) of the two worlds
> ...
> Wouldn't that tantamount to copyright violation of the Divine (_shirk_)? Many of the cultural catchphrases we've coined I think actually lie outside the Islamic understanding of reality!


 Just a matter of perception! I do not wish to go off-topic but the same argument has resulted in the destruction of our historical heritage in the two holy cities. I think we need to be more flexible about how words and terms are used and understood. _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam_ has been used for the Prophet for long and it is very much part of our culture and culture and history have influenced our language -both very important. I don't see any objection to _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam as the context tells you who is being referred to..... all about context!_


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## BP.

A 'literalist interpretation' has to ensue when we begin the process of understanding from a linguistic perspective. Here we often do exactly that, and some of us including you and me have been accused of putting etymology before current word interpretations for example. All I'd say is, this penchance toward 'literalist interpretation' at least for me comes from here not from the other source, which I believe is too saadah to have delved into anything more complex than raising crops and sheep.

By a similar line of argument as for Huzuur, I realized we shouldn't call each other SaaHib on the forum after not being in SuHbat for a fair bit of time, for a SaaHib keeps you company all the time! Maybe we shouldn't think too much and just do or say what everybody else does and says. It's always the easier alternative anyway.

I think this discussion doesn't belong here, and I won't mind if it is pruned off the thread, including half of my original post.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> I hear more and more people objecting to this kind of address but I see no issue. _HuDhuur _/ _Huzuur_  is being used only as a mark of respect! There is no need to get  oursleves entangled in the more literalist interpretations that seem to  be on the rise.



I agree with this line of thinking. We need to be careful about being drawn into carrying out a "baal kii khaal utaarnaa" kind of operation having religious ideologies as the basis. I remember a fairly heated debate on some elements of society wishing to eliminate "xudaa Haafiz" and enthroning "Allah Haafiz" in its place. For me, both convey the exact same message for Urdu speakers and as I am so used to saying "xudaa Haafiz", I find it a little difficult to start saying "Allah Haafiz" hence forth.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> Just a matter of perception! I do not wish to go off-topic but the same argument has resulted in the destruction of our historical heritage in the two holy cities. I think we need to be more flexible about how words and terms are used and understood. _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam_ has been used for the Prophet for long and it is very much part of our culture and culture and history have influenced our language -both very important. I don't see any objection to _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam as the context tells you who is being referred to..... all about context!_



Hear, hear!!


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## Alfaaz

BelligerentPacifist said:
			
		

> I think this discussion doesn't belong here, and I won't mind if it is pruned off the thread, including half of my original post.


_Kind of a request_: I hope it isn't pruned off as I enjoyed reading the exchange of words between the two members (about interesting ideas)....both representing different viewpoints...both of which could be correct depending on how one thinks about the matter! Thanks to both!


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## UrduMedium

QURESHPOR said:


> I agree with this line of thinking. We need to be careful about being drawn into carrying out a "baal kii khaal utaarnaa" kind of operation having religious ideologies as the basis. I remember a fairly heated debate on some elements of society wishing to eliminate "xudaa Haafiz" and enthroning "Allah Haafiz" in its place. For me, both convey the exact same message for Urdu speakers and as I am so used to saying "xudaa Haafiz", I find it a little difficult to start saying "Allah Haafiz" hence forth.


Agree totally on protecting xudaa haafiz for those who prefer it over allaah haafiz. No reason both phrases cannot coexist.

Also, another name/expression used for the prophet (may peace be upon him) is _sayyid-i-konain_, which I think is very similar to _sarkaar-i-do-3aalam_ in meaning.


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## UrduMedium

Faylasoof said:


> Just a matter of perception! I do not wish to go off-topic but the same argument has resulted in the destruction of our historical heritage in the two holy cities. I think we need to be more flexible about how words and terms are used and understood. _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam_ has been used for the Prophet for long and it is very much part of our culture and culture and history have influenced our language -both very important. I don't see any objection to _sarkaar-e-do-3aalam as the context tells you who is being referred to..... all about context!_



Agreed. One can take the literalist approach to its ridiculous extremes to understand what's wrong with it. I heard one well-known religious scholar make a comment that if you start questioning each word usage based on literal meaning or etymology, one could insist that shorbah is not what most people think it is, but just a mix of salt and water, since that's the meaning that the word literally carries. Bottomline- words have to be viewed in the time and place context of their use.


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