# Philosophy



## Lupen The Third

Good evening,

At last, I can post my first thread in the forum " Cultural Discussions ".
The argoument I would like to treat with you is "Philosophy".

This year I've finished my high school studies and soon I'm going to the university.

During my high school studies I did three years of philosophy but, I have to be honest, I admit that I have never understood completely the teachings of the great philosophers (like Platone, Socrate, Nietsche and so on) in the course of those years. Then, some time ago, I read a book of an Italian philosopher :
Luciano De Crescenzo.

The book treats of 10 philosophers and explaines their main teachings.
The curious thing is that thanks to De Crescenzo, I've understood those 10 philosophers better than I did at high school. This is why School is still too academic some times (to me), and focuses just a bit on the fact that things you are learning there, could be (or not) useful in your everyday life [this is my opinion]... of course, understanding philosophy is also linked to the bravura of the teacher.

Anyway, thanks to that book, I've found , for the first time, interesting Socrate, Erasmus and others. 
(Take care : I'm not saying however that now I know everything about their philosophy!)

Going to the point : How is philosophy treated in your country? 

<Calls for purely personal, rather than cultural, viewpoints removed.  Please see the Guidelines.> 

Thank you,
ルパン三世


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## Miguelillo 87

Well here in Mexico I have to say Philosophy is threaten like a thing only rich people study, Why? Because How can you earn money with philosophy? 

Althought the most important university in Mexico and Latin America has this faculty called: Filosofia y Letras (Philosphy and languages??) 

There you can study French, Italian, Latin, English, Spanish all these in a very perfect way the literature, comprhension, most of them finish like teachers of these languages, or writers or working for a newspaper, but parents don't encourage to their children to study that.

In Mexico culture it's not seen like an affordable job. Philosophy, dancing, painting etc...


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## HUMBERT0

I kind of agree with Miguel, I only had a course of philosophy at high school, and I loved it, along with psychology, but I did not follow that line of study at the university. To study history, philosophy, literature, etc. at the university is not something that most people would do. Maybe the people who study them are privileged, and do not think on issues of making a living for yourself or a family of your own after the university, because the only option "job wise" for most people who have studied these, is to become a teacher.


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## Lupen The Third

Hey guys, I'm sorry but maybe I gave you a wrong idea...

I wrote :
 "This year I've finished my high school studies and soon I'm going to the university", but this sentence I think it has been misunderstood.

I'm going to the university, but not to study philosophy. I will study languages(Chinese and Japanese mainly)!
I did not specify it, _mea culpa_!

And before going on: I've thought this thread because I would like to discuss what philosophy can teach in your/our lives. Plese, keep off the fact that philosophy can be seen as a way to earn money ( philosophy as a job - teacher).

Thank you very much,
Best regards.


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## cuchuflete

What philosophy can do for us as individuals, according to our personal opinions, is outside the scope of this forum.  The original thread topic is totally valid and within the boundaries of the forum:  *How is philosophy treated in your country? 

*In my country, the U.S., it is treated with indifference outside of the academic world.  A few individuals not associated with colleges and universities may read about, think about, and discuss philosophy, but they are a very tiny minority of the population.


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## effeundici

Hi Lupin,

I think that philosophy in Italy is treated quite well. There are many hours of teaching every week in the 2 high schools which are meant to prepare you for the university.

Actually the problem is that philosophy is a very difficult matter considering that you have to understand the product of the mind of real geniuses. And each one of them spent years before reaching those results.

Their thoughts were so deep,profound and clever that most students ...tend to think that the philosophers were real idiots.


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## mirx

We too study philosophy during High School, and we too find it completely irrelevanty, uncomprehensible and something some guys with nothing else to do spent their entire lives on. 

I must acknowledge, pittingly, that people in Mexico are very much driven by what every body else says or does. So obviously philosophy is not of much interest as it requires individuals to make an image of things by themselves. Like I said, a pity.


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## catalinaaaa87

I study Anthropology at the University of Buenos Aires, Argentina, in the "Filosofía y Letras" department. Of course I know many people who study it (many times we even share lessons). Many of them do it as a hobby, but not all. In general, when they finish their studies they teach or become writers. But as it is very difficult it's really hard to complete all the subjects, it takes maybe 10 o more years.


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## Lupen The Third

Maybe philosophy appears irrelevanty and uncomprehensible to the most, also here in Italy, because there is not a good way to teach it. As I said, for me, schools are too academic.

It is such a shame!
Guys think that they have nothing to do with philosophy, but they don't understand that what we are now is based also on the  Socrate's "I know that I know nothing" for example (this concept is linked only to the Neo-Latins cultures of course)

Too words around one philosopher.
Philosophy should be more practical and less theoretical I think.
ルパン三世


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## effeundici

Lupin, I can't really understand what you mean when you talk about _practical philosophy._

Can you give an example?


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## ernest_

Hi. In my days, philosophy was a mandatory subject in secondary school if you wanted to go to university. We did Plato, then Descartes, Hume, Kant, Marx and Nietzsche (and Popper, but I managed to avoid that one altogether). Now, outside the academic world, philosophy isn't exactly a popular topic that people discuss enthusiastically in bars, or elsewhere, I would say. Of course most people don't discuss other sciences either. Football and politics pretty much monopolise the public debate.


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## Jacobtm

In new york at least, it's a status thing to know about philosophers. Not necessarily among the rich, but among people who consider themselves intelligent, different, etc. knowledge of many philosophical works can set you apart in the social hierarchy.


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## Lupen The Third

effeundici said:


> Lupin, I can't really understand what you mean when you talk about _practical philosophy._
> 
> Can you give an example?



Ok this is more or less my point of view:

The theoretical part starts when you study philosophy at schools, internet, on books and so on...after this, it comes what I mean saying practical philosophy.

It is said : Philosophy is a way of life, so I'd like (and I'd try) to put just a little bit of philosophy in my way of life.

Let's talk again about Socrates.
Understood what is the "I know that I know nothing", I'd like to apply it effectively .

"I know that I know nothing" is a way to come to the truth. If I start to ask, to study a lot and different things, I will gain a lot of knowledge that I had not before. It is a sort of disinterested culture. I'll try to study just for myself.
I will be curious, and every time I'm going to learn something new, I will compare it to the others things I've already learnt.
The comparison will say to me which aspect of a thing, of an argument or of an idea is good or not, or "more good and not". With "good" or not" I mean what it could be useful, helpful for my life and what It could be kept off...but to do this I got to have "a lot of informations"...I can't really give an opinion if, before, I don't know what there's around and before it. 

So being "curious", could be useful sometimes. This is also what Galileo Galilei (who was also a philosopher) taught. Start to make sure of the things that people says you...so you will have your own idea on a fact, and then you will have your say on that...they said him that the Earth was at the centre of the universe, is this true? I want to know more, let's see if it is true...and does Earth move? Who knows, but let me see..."Eppur si muove"...without his curiosity Galileo, maybe, would never had been those discovers...

These were just examples and I hope to have been clear enough!! 
This is what I meant with practical philosophy, as I said : It's just a little bit of the real part of philospohy...the part that I like most.

Best regards


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## Frank78

There are more and simpler examples of practical/applied philosophy. You surely ask yourself almost everyday is that what I am doing (e.g. a decision) good and right or does it just serve base/interested motives. That´s what we call morals and it defines every human being.


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## Lupen The Third

Yes, this is true and I agree with you.

But the fact is not to reason before "something" I am going to do or decide,  and think what is good or not for it.
I talked about a "disinterested culture". I think it is a little bit different.
How many persons try to learn something new when they have "nothing to do", when they have no decisions in front of them? 

Under this pont of view, I'd say that curiosity plays well its part...

When, instead, we think about what there's of good and right before doing an action or making a decision, I'd say that morals take their part here.

Best regards


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## caperucita roja

Hey, that's an interesting post! 

In Spain, Philosophy is treated in High School just as History of Philosophy: they just tell you who said what and make you read a couple of pages of what they wrote. As for the students, they see it as an extremely boring subject which they don't really understand. 
And in university, they are seriously considering eliminating the Philosophy degree. And I am still not sure why!! 

The fact is, Philosophy, as many other no-science subjects, has been devaluated for a long time. It did have a time of brief glory, but it's still seen as something average, not that trustful. They may laugh at you if that's your career, because this society admires doctors - almost as if they were gods - and the rest of the science community but often forgets that not everything is about proving stuff, and calculating etc etc. (and I am not taking side, it's just a manner of speaking).

But, you see, life is like it is. It might change, over the years, but for that the way of thinking should also change. We forgot what it's like to ask ourselves questions. Therefore philosophy has lost so much of it's importance.

Ahh well! 
Regards! 

CR


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## Ivonne do Tango

En la escuela media (secundario) se hace una leve introducción a la filosofía en Literatura de 3er año con la Odisea, Antígona (y Antígona Vélez), Edipo Rey, etc. En los bachilleratos suelen tener Ética y Moral.

En el profesorado de portugués del Instituto de Enseñanza en Lenguas Vivas "Juan Ramón Fernández" hay una materia I.T.C.L. (no es una droga) cuyas siglas significan Introducción al Tema del Conocimiento del Lenguaje (que se dicta en el idioma nativo) y es filosofía, netamente. Allí se aprende de Descartes, Platón, Sócrates y de las distintas corrientes.


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## tvdxer

cuchuflete said:


> What philosophy can do for us as individuals, according to our personal opinions, is outside the scope of this forum.  The original thread topic is totally valid and within the boundaries of the forum:  *How is philosophy treated in your country?
> 
> *In my country, the U.S., it is treated with indifference outside of the academic world.  A few individuals not associated with colleges and universities may read about, think about, and discuss philosophy, but they are a very tiny minority of the population.



For the most part I agree with cuchuflete, although I would not say those interested in philosophy comprise a "very tiny minority" of the overall population, although they are indeed a small minority, but it's not that rare to find somebody who's read Aristotle or Nietzsche.  

One interesting thing to note is that high school philosophy classes are very rare in the U.S., while they seem to be common in other countries.  However, my college, and I suspect many others, make all undergraduate students take at least one philosophy course, no matter what degree they are pursuing.  At my school, this is fulfilled by taking an ethics course, but not by taking a course in logic.


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## Zsanna

In Hungary (similarly to what goes on apparently in the US) and looking back on to the 80s, there were no philosphy lessons in schools before university. 
We had a lesson in the last year of grammar school that was called "Our world view" meaning to be something like philosophy but aiming to be getting familiar with theoretical clichés fitting socialism best (strictly speaking or very loosely depending how "bigot" the teacher was). Ours wasn't (we were in a really excellent grammar school that could be a bit "freer" than the rest) so we chatted about general moral things and how we thought certain situations could be solved (a sort of a discussion lesson "of life, the universe and everything").
I've heard about philosophy in grammar schools only in France and I have often wondered what good it can do to students of that age...
(Don't misunderstand me: I have studied philosophy at university and I liked it a lot.)


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## Nanon

Philosophy is taught in French schools, but only during the last year of secondary school, when students are typically about 17 years old. According to what your main subject is,  philosphy represents from 3 (science, technical...) to 8 hours (philosophy and literature) per week.
The subject includes various topics, from classical readings in philosophy to an introduction to social sciences, law, politics, psychology, linguistics (that was how I heard first about Roman Jakobson!), art history, ethnology... a myriad of topics. But for most students, it is mostly a prolongation of language and literature subjects - reading texts, analysing texts, reading more texts and so on.
Honestly, depending on whether your teacher is good or not, the short period of time (just one year) in which you get this introduction to philosophy can either get you hooked... or bore you to death (remember, if you go for languages and literature, it's 8 hours of _"philo"_ - but literature is not taught as a subject during that last year, it stops the year before).


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## HBZ55

@Nanon:
It's exactly the same as you here in Tunisia, even the abbreviation "philo". 
Frankly I'm in my senior year in high school, and I'm taking philosophy, I find it to be the most boring useless subject I have ever studied in my life, even more boring and useless than Italian.
This feeling is shared by almost every student I've ever spoken with, students who often automatically link between philosophy and atheism, which is another subject.


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## Bonjules

The problem with philosophy is it's lack of social impact. For the thinkers and the small groups of people studying their thoughts it is of course fascinating - but like 'High Culture' in general basically sophisticated entertainment.
A Hegel will go to great lengths to explore the true nature of something ('das Ding an sich', or the essence of it as such) and take this investigation to dizzying, astounding heights - but in the end is/was the effort worth it?
The problems today turn out to be global: Technology, resources, unresolved conflicts, survival, a frantic pace of life etc. No wonder philosophy had it's hayday when the world was smaller, less complicated and the 'educated' still had time to think... ..- the original high -class pastime, along with drama/theatre.
saludos


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## Hulalessar

Bonjules said:


> The problem with philosophy is it's lack of social impact. For the thinkers and the small groups of people studying their thoughts it is of course fascinating - but like 'High Culture' in general basically sophisticated entertainment.
> A Hegel will go to great lengths to explore the true nature of something ('das Ding an sich', or the essence of it as such) and take this investigation to dizzying, astounding heights - but in the end is/was the effort worth it?
> The problems today turn out to be global: Technology, resources, unresolved conflicts, survival, a frantic pace of life etc. No wonder philosophy had it's heyday when the world was smaller, less complicated and the 'educated' still had time to think...  ..- the original high -class pastime, along with drama/theatre.
> saludos



There is some truth in that. However, philosophy underpins all other disciplines and helps keep them honest. It reminds us that "Why?" can be as important a question as "How'?" All investigations have the same intrinsic worth since they reflect man's enquiring nature. A university without a philosophy department is not worthy of the name.


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