# Tecum principium...



## Scholiast

saluete amici!

An amateur choir with which I sing is rehearsing (for concert-performance at Christmas-tide) a piece including a setting of the words _tecum principium in die virtutis tuae, in splendoribus Sanctorum_.

Can anyone identify for me, please, the source of this text? In the light of the 'splendours of the Saints' I don't think it can be biblical—in the NT, the 'saints' (ἅγιοι = _hagioi_) are just 'believers', 'the faithful'.

Σ


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## bearded

Hello Scholiast

According to Wikipedia, the text is from Psalm 110 (Vulgate 109).
Dixit Dominus (Handel) - Wikipedia


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## Scholiast

Barbato Mediolanensi nostro, necnon aliis, Scholiasta S.P.D.

_gratias_, of course, yes, it turns out, this is an accurate transcription of the Vulgate's Ps. 109/110. The trouble is, none of the biblical translations into English that I have to hand (in the _Book of Common Prayer_, the King James AV, the (RC) Jerusalem Bible, or the _NEB_) has anything resembling this formulation of Jerome's. I need a Hebraist!

Σ


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## rajulbat

The original Hebrew says "your people" (עַמְּךָ֣ / ‘am·mə·ḵā) as opposed to "saints" (sanctorum). The KJV translates this as "thy people."

Other translations for 'amm (means the same in Arabic): plebeian, common man; those united, connected, or related. See here: Strong's Hebrew: 5971. עָם (am) -- folk  The "ka" suffix is second person possessive (i.e., "your").

Presumably Jerome's thinking is that God's people are saints.


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## rajulbat

To clarify...

This is Psalms 109 (110) verses 3 and 4.

The Latin is: Tecum principium in die virtutis tuae* in splendoribus sanctorum* ex utero ante luciferum genui te Iuravit Dominus et non paenitebit eum tu es sacerdos in aeternum secundum ordinem Melchisedech

Which in English is:
With thee is the principality in the day of thy strength: *in the brightness of the saints*: from the womb before the day star I begot thee. The Lord hath sworn, and he will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.

The Hebrew is:
עַמְּךָ֣ נְדָבֹת֮ בְּי֪וֹם חֵ֫ילֶ֥ךָ *בְּֽהַדְרֵי־קֹ֖דֶשׁ *מֵרֶ֣חֶם מִשְׁחָ֑ר לְ֝ךָ֗ טַ֣ל יַלְדֻתֶֽיךָ׃
נִשְׁבַּ֤ע יְהוָ֨ה׀ וְלֹ֥א יִנָּחֵ֗ם אַתָּֽה־כֹהֵ֥ן לְעוֹלָ֑ם עַל־דִּ֝בְרָתִ֗י מַלְכִּי־צֶֽדֶק

Transliterating the bolded part: *bə·haḏ·rê qō·ḏeš *

Hadar: Strong's Hebrew: 1926. הָדָר (hadar) -- an ornament, honor, splendor / Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hebrew 1926. הָדָר (hadar) -- an ornament, honor, splendor
An ornament, honor, splendor, majesty.  _See, e.g., _Ps. 90:16 (Let Thy work appear unto Thy servants, And _Thine honour _on their sons.)

Qō·ḏeš: Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hebrew 6944. קֹ֫דֶשׁ (qodesh) -- apartness, sacredness
consecrated thing, dedicated thing, hallowed thing, holiness, most holy day, portion, thing, saint,


Which according to Young's Literal Translation is:
3 Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength,* in the honours of holiness,* From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'


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## voltape

Scholiast said:


> saluete amici!
> 
> An amateur choir with which I sing is rehearsing (for concert-performance at Christmas-tide) a piece including a setting of the words _tecum principium in die virtutis tuae, in splendoribus Sanctorum_.
> 
> Can anyone identify for me, please, the source of this text? In the light of the 'splendours of the Saints' I don't think it can be biblical—in the NT, the 'saints' (ἅγιοι = _hagioi_) are just 'believers', 'the faithful'.
> 
> Σ


we have to take into account that it is Psalm 109 of the Latin Gallican Version  - "saints" for Catholics has a different meaning than that of non catholics. A Saint is one who has died and has been canonized by the Pope - Like St. Francis, St. Peter, St. Martin de Porres, etc.
S


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## bearded

voltape said:


> A Saint is one who has died and has been canonized by the Pope


Was it already like that at the time of that Latin translation?


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## Quiviscumque

Do not miss the Septuaginta (Jerome did not, indeed, he follows it here word by word):
μετὰ σοῦ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐν ἡμέρᾳ τῆς δυνάμεώς σου 
ἐν ταῖς λαμπρότησιν τῶν ἁγίων·

It is very difficult to understand the "high poetry" of the Psalms (at least for me, in Latin or Spanish). Perhaps it was easy for Hebrew people in times of King David; however, I doubt it.


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