# les pronoms personnels compléments d'objets directs / indirects



## paulochine

hello,everyone!I want to know what is the different between the <les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet> and <les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet>for example:"Elle va m'attendre à la station de métro." and "Ma soeur m'écrit quelquefois." There are both "me",but the former one is <les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet>,and the latter one is <les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet indirect>,it really make me confused,so would you tell me what really difference is there?
For more example:"Ne les choisissez pas." and "Ne leur dites pas cette nouvelle."The difference between "les"<les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet> and "leur"<les pronoms personnels compléments d'objet>.thanks a lot.


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路漫漫兮其修远，吾将上下而求索


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## CARNESECCHI

Hello,
"Elle va attendre moi à la station" = me
"Ma soeur écrit à moi quelquefois" = to me
"Ne dites pas cette nouvelle à eux" = to them
"Ne choisissez pas eux" = them
Hope it helps!


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## geve

Hi Paulochine,

I believe there are words missing in your posts  
To understand the difference between "pronoms compléments d'objets *directs*" and "pronoms compléments d'objets *indirects*" , you have to understand the difference between "complément d'objet direct" (COD) and "complément d'objet indirect" (COI).
They are both the object or person on which the action is done ; they are _compléments_ to the verb.

The COD is directly linked to the verb:
_Je mange une pomme._
_J'ai écrit une lettre._
_J'appelle Paulo._

The COI comes after a preposition (à, de...)
_J'ai écrit à ma soeur._
_Je téléphone à Paulo._

When you replace a _complément_ with a pronoun, you need to know if it's a COD or a COI. It is a COD if it can answer the question "quoi ?" or "de quoi ?", ie:
"j'ai mangé quoi ?" => "une pomme" is a COD
"j'ai écrit quoi ?" => "une lettre" is a COD ; "ma soeur" is not because it can't be the answer to the question.

Hence:
_J'ai écrit une lettre (COD) => Je *l'*ai écrit_
_J'ai écrit à ma soeur (COI) => Je *lui* ai écrit_


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## bathil

_*The direct object*_ is the person or thing that receives the action of the verb in a sentence. To find the direct object in a sentence, ask the question Who? or What?

I'm eating bread - Je mange du pain.
What am I eating? Bread.

He sees Marie - Il voit Marie.
Who does he see? Marie.

The French direct object pronouns are as follows:
me / m' me
te / t' you
le / l' him, it (masc)
la / l' her, it (fem)
nous us
vous you
les them

Me, te, and le / la change to m', t', and l' in front of a vowel or mute h.

_Direct object pronouns go in front of the verb in French._

I'm eating it. - Je le mange.
He sees her. - Il la voit.
I love you. - Je t'aime.
You love me. - Tu m'aimes.

Note: When deciding between direct and indirect objects, the general rule is that if the person or thing is preceded by a preposition, that person/thing is an indirect object. If it is not preceded by a preposition, it is a direct object. 

Exemple : parler à quel q'un (indirect)

_*Indirect objects*_ are the people or things in a sentence to/for whom or to/for what the action of the verb occurs.

I'm talking to Pierre. - Je parle à Pierre.
To whom am I talking? Pierre.

He buys books for the students - Il achète des livres pour les étudiants.
For whom does he buy books? - The students.

Indirect object pronouns are the words that replace the indirect object, but only when the indirect object is a person. The 

French indirect object pronouns are

me / m' me
te / t' you
lui him, her, it
nous us
vous yours
leur them

_Like direct object pronouns, French indirect object pronouns are placed in front of the verb._

I'm talking to him. - Je lui parle.
He buys books for them - Il leur achète des livres.
I'm giving the bread to you. - Je vous donne le pain.
She wrote to me - Elle m'a écrit.

As 'geve' had mentioned its important to understand COD & COI and also verbes preceded by proposition.

(Taken form one of my study materials, when I learned French. I dont know whether I could post the site address here. Any suggestions !)

Please refer to : www.about.com Its a vast resource for everything you are looking for in french, with a very friendly search engine. It also contains various other languages like Spanish, etc., if you are interested in. Give it a try.


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## paulochine

I am terrible sorry about the mistake.thanks you very much.So when personnel pronouns are used to replace the direct object,they are CODs;when they are used to replace the indirect object,which after prepostion(à,de...),so they are COI.Am I right?


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## marget

The COI comes after a preposition (à, de...)
_J'ai écrit à ma soeur._
_Je téléphone à Paulo._

Yes, you are correct.  My problem is that I can't think of many examples for an indirect object pronoun replacing "de+noun".  Indirect objects are generally those that require *à *after the verb to get the action across.  The examples cited both invlove* à.  "De + noun* is usually treated differently.


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## geve

paulochine said:
			
		

> So when personnel pronouns are used to replace the direct object,they are CODs;when they are used to replace the indirect object,which after prepostion(à,de...),so they are COI.Am I right?


Yes, direct objects (=COD) are replaced by 'pronoms COD'
and indirect objects (=COI) are replaced by 'pronoms COI'

As you can see in Bathil's explanation, pronoms COD and pronoms COI can be the same  

I would just like to add to what Bathil said that pronoms COI for 1st and 2nd pers.sing. change at the affirmative imperative form:
_Parle-*moi* !_
_Arrête-*toi* !_


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## paulochine

so tell me again,what is exactly meaning of this sentence:"Ne leur dites pas cette nouvelle."? is that means:"Don't tell this news to them."?


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## marget

Yes, me and te change to moi and toi (direct and indirect) if they are the last or only pronoun.

Parlez-moi, donnez-le-moi, but donnez-m'en.


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## marget

:"Ne leur dites pas cette nouvelle."? is that means:"Don't tell this news to them."?
Yes


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## bathil

Usually 'DE + noun' is replaced with 'EN'. 
EN=some. It is undefined (for example quantity 'some').
For example :

j'ai achété de la farine - j'*en *ai achété.
Tu te souviens de nos vacances ? - Qui, je m'*en* souviens.

Its the same with : parler de quelque choses à quel qu'un. 

Vous voyez.


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## paulochine

thank all of you,you have been so helpful,especially bathil.now i got one more question,what the means of this sentence:"Je vais lui demander un verre de lait."?    =="I'll ask a cup tea for him."?


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## bathil

Its Futur Proche - ALLER (conjugated) + verbe infinitif = going to + an action

I would translate your sentence like this :

I am going to ask him a glass of milk.


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## paulochine

Demande-lui plus de temps.==Ask him for more time.   the "lui" is COD,but the in form of "les pronoms personnels toniques".is that right?if that is right,i think I have solveed this problem.


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## paulochine

bathil said:
			
		

> Its Futur Proche - ALLER (conjugated) + verbe infinitif = going to + an action
> 
> I would translate your sentence like this :
> 
> I am going to ask him a glass of milk.


 
I am confused again...........


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## paulochine

sorry,my bad.It just the same,"who you going ask to?---to him"


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## marget

I am going to ask him a glass of milk.

I would say "I'm going to ask him *for *a glass of milk.


Demande-lui plus de temps.==Ask him for more time. the "lui" is COD,but the in form of "les pronoms personnels toniques".is that right?if that is right,i think I have solveed this problem

"lui" in your sentence is the COI; the *indirect* object pronoun:
lui in tonic pronouns  is him


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## bathil

Attendez !

Its : demender *à* quel qu'un

I'll ask a cup tea for him. = Je vais demander un verre de lait pour lui !

Its different from : Je vais lui demander un verre de lait. 

Prennez votre temps. Take your time. Pronoms are beautiful little mots in french, and it will come to you automatically. There is nothing to get confused. Just follow the simple rules and understand its function, then its very simple.


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## paulochine

marget said:
			
		

> I am going to ask him a glass of milk.
> 
> I would say "I'm going to ask him *for *a glass of milk.
> 
> 
> Demande-lui plus de temps.==Ask him for more time. the "lui" is COD,but the in form of "les pronoms personnels toniques".is that right?if that is right,i think I have solveed this problem
> 
> "lui" in your sentence is the COI; the *indirect* object pronoun:
> lui in tonic pronouns is him


 
you sure?if so,according the ruleemande-lui plus de temps.==demande plus de temps à(or pour or whatever) lui.  is that?


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## paulvial

geve said:
			
		

> Hi Paulochine,
> 
> I believe there are words missing in your posts
> To understand the difference between "pronoms compléments d'objets *directs*" and "pronoms compléments d'objets *indirects*" , you have to understand the difference between "complément d'objet direct" (COD) and "complément d'objet indirect" (COI).
> They are both the object or person on which the action is done ; they are _compléments_ to the verb.
> 
> The COD is directly linked to the verb:
> _Je mange une pomme._
> _J'ai écrit une lettre._
> _J'appelle Paulo._
> 
> The COI comes after a preposition (à, de...)
> _J'ai écrit à ma soeur._
> _Je téléphone à Paulo._
> 
> When you replace a _complément_ with a pronoun, you need to know if it's a COD or a COI. It is a COD if it can answer the question "quoi ?" or "de quoi ?", ie:
> "j'ai mangé quoi ?" => "une pomme" is a COD
> "j'ai écrit quoi ?" => "une lettre" is a COD ; "ma soeur" is not because it can't be the answer to the question.
> 
> Hence:
> _J'ai écrit une lettre (COD) => Je *l'*ai écrit_
> _J'ai écrit à ma soeur (COI) => Je *lui* ai écrit_


i am not 100% sure , Geve , but should it not be :
j'ai écrit une lettre (cod)=> je l'ai écrite   as the cod (l') being feminin and placed before the verb  ?????


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## geve

paulvial said:
			
		

> i am not 100% sure , Geve , but should it not be :
> j'ai écrit une lettre (cod)=> je l'ai écrite as the cod (l') being feminin and placed before the verb ?????


Yes it should, you are right!

(c'est pas bientôt fini, Paul, de relever mes erreurs comme ça ?  ... Je plaisante, hein, il faut me corriger sans pitié)


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## paulochine

hey everyone,take a look at this sentence:"Le conférencier veut demander un verre de lait au président de l'université." So now can you suggest me another way to translate the "Je vais lui demander un verre de lait."?


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## marget

I can't see why you are saying "quoi or de quoi" for direct objects.  The way I understand it, a direct object  answers the question "qui" or "quoi".  I don't think "de" is involved.  I can say "J'ai vu Paul" ou "J'ai vu le match de tennis".  "Je l'ai vu" in both cases. Both objects are direct.  If I say "J'ai besoin d'argent, I must replace d'argent with en and say J'en ai besoin. 

Likewise, indirect objects answer the question "a qui" in general, not "de qui" or "de quoi".  J'ai parlé à Paul.  Je lui ai parlé.  J'ai parlé du match. J'en ai parlé.

I would just like to know what you think.


Hier 23h14


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## marget

I am going to ask for a glass of milk for him.  Indirect objects can also express "for him" in this context.


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## paulvial

geve said:
			
		

> Yes it should, you are right!
> 
> (c'est pas bientôt fini, Paul, de relever mes erreurs comme ça ?  ... Je plaisante, hein, il faut me corriger sans pitié)


i was not being modest when i said i was not 100% sure , Geve, because  your input is usually so perfect, that i come to doubt about my knowledge in the rare occasions (do i dare putting a plural here !) when i think you might have overlooked something !!!!!


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## Nono Poisson

bathil said:


> Attendez !
> 
> Its : demender *à* quel qu'un
> 
> I'll ask a cup tea for him. = Je vais demander un verre de lait pour lui !
> 
> Its different from : Je vais lui demander un verre de lait.
> 
> Prennez votre temps. Take your time. Pronoms are beautiful little mots in french, and it will come to you automatically. There is nothing to get confused. Just follow the simple rules and understand its function, then its very simple.


 
i learned a lesson from one of my text books:
Je leur ai achete des fleurs.
In this case, leur= pour elles.

So if the forementioned sentence is right, why we can't say
"Je vais lui demander"= i'm going to ask for him.

P.S.,
I really really wanna know the placement of the COI and COD when they are in the same sentence. Is there any rule for their order? 

Merci Beaucoup!!


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## jann

> So if the forementioned sentence is right, why we can't say
> "Je vais lui demander"= i'm going to ask for him.


In French, "to ask someone something" = _demander qqch *à* quelqu'un_.  This really is "to ask something *to* someone."  The person you ask is the indirect object.  Therefore, if you say "_je vais lui demander_" it just means "I'm going to ask (to) him."  If you want to ask something FOR him, you have to say it a different way to avoid the ambiguity:  _je vais demander de sa part_ = I'm going to ask on his behalf, or _je vais demander pour lui_ = I am going to ask for him.

(Careful, in English "I am going to ask for him" might mean that you call and his secretary answers and you ask to speak with him.  The explanation above is not for this context.)

As for the proper order of COD and COI pronouns, this question has been discussed many times before.  Please read this article and check out a few threads like this one: indirect and direct object pronouns

We try to limit our discussions to a single topic per thread, so if you have more questions on pronoun order, you may post them in an existing thread on the topic, or you might start a new thread if you feel your question is really very different from the ones that have already been asked.


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## geostan

marget said:


> I am going to ask for a glass of milk for him.  Indirect objects can also express "for him" in this context.



The translation should be: I'm going to ask him for a glass of milk.

Cheers!


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## Nono Poisson

Thank you everybody


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