# Jeans



## JohnTempleton

Some time ago I bought a shirt with some writing I can't read, and for some reason it makes me hesitant to actually wear it =D

it looks like chinese to me but i'm not sure. Can anyone help? what language is it and what does it say??

here's the link to imageshack

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3316/photo0019nd2.jpg

If this helps, the make of the shirt is "no limit jeans"

any help appreciated. thanks!


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## robbie_SWE

I'm almost sure that it's not Chinese. Has to be Japanese or something like that. 

Hope it helped!

 robbie


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## Joca

Hi 

I would second Robbie. It looks like Japanese. At least I am sure the first symbol is pure Japanese. It is Hiragana and it is pronounced "no". It could stand for the English preposition "of".

José Carlos


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## Whodunit

I've tried to figure it out, but it is indeed very hard. The only solution I have gotten is "の陬界," but this does not make much sense. I've thought about "_of/belonging to the remote world_."

Anyway, I can tell you for sure (at least 80%) that it does not mean "jeans." The first letter is pronounced "no" (maybe indicating possessive) and the last one means "world" (pronounced: _kai_). I'm really not sure about the second character; it's a bit blurry.


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## Joca

Whodunit is right: the third character stands for "world" or "Universe", but I think it is pronounced as "sekai" rather than "kai". 

I still can't find the second kanji. Keep looking.

However, I don't understand the position of "no" in the expression, either. I think the "no" should come between the two characters, not in front of one of them. This looks strange to me. Maybe this is fake Japanese?

José Carlos


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## Whodunit

Joca said:


> Whodunit is right: the third character stands for "world" or "Universe", but I think it is pronounced as "sekai" rather than "kai".


 
Yes and no.  I think that "世界" means "sekai." As written on the jeans (界), it must be something like a shorter form for "world" = kai.



> I still can't find the second kanji. Keep looking.


 
Same here. 



> However, I don't understand the position of "no" in the expression, either. I think the "no" should come between the two characters, not in front of one of them. This looks strange to me. Maybe this is fake Japanese?


 
You're right. I have never seen a sentence starting with "no." JohnTempleton, can you tell us whether or not it could be a fake? How much do you trust in your jeans?


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## Cereth

I agree the thrid kanji is "Kai"
but I am still looking for the second one..


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## Joca

Well, here is something else. 

I think that the blurry second character is last part of the kanji for the word "seegen", which means "limit". 

So we have: NO (Japanese hiragana) + LIMIT (Kanji), but the third element doesn't seem to fit yet. As Whodunit said, it is not "jeans" at all.

John Templeton, can you tell us where you bought that shirt? I tend to believe they were simplying trying to write their fantasy name in Japanese... 

JC


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## Whodunit

Joca said:


> Well, here is something else.
> 
> I think that the blurry second character is last part of the kanji for the word "seegen", which means "limit".


 
Really? Can you write it in Hiragana?



> So we have: NO (Japanese hiragana) + LIMIT (Kanji), but the third element doesn't seem to fit yet. As Whodunit said, it is not "jeans" at all.


 
What if it supposed to mean "NO LIMIT WORLD," i.e. "the world of the brand NO LIMIT?"



> John Templeton, can you tell us where you bought that shirt? I tend to believe they were simplying trying to write their fantasy name in Japanese...


 
Agreed.


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## Joca

Whodunit said:


> Really? Can you write it in Hiragana?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is せ*い* げん.
> 
> JC


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## s_a_n_t_i

The word is 限界 = Limit; Limitations; Bounds.
But the whole concept is still unclear to me.
It seems like there is a missing kanji because ～の限界, is "the limits of ~".
You know, many clothing brands do not even know what they write in their products, I see all the times T shirts with phrases that doesn't make any sense, or with kanjis written back to front, and that kind of stuff.

Hope it helped.
Greets,
Santi


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## gaer

s_a_n_t_i said:


> The word is 限界 = Limit; Limitations; Bounds.
> But the whole concept is still unclear to me.
> It seems like there is a missing kanji because ～の限界, is "the limits of ~".
> You know, many clothing brands do not even know what they write in their products, I see all the times T shirts with phrases that doesn't make any sense, or with kanjis written back to front, and that kind of stuff.
> 
> Hope it helped.
> Greets,
> Santi


Santi,

I can't be sure, but I THINK this is one of those weird Japanese "made up things" that are half or one language and half of another.

の=no

I don't think this is using possessive. I think it is using the English word "no", though why hiragana is used I don't understand.

I believe that 限界, げんかい, is "limit(s)", without any doubt.

I think the Japanese are just "goofing" with an American brand name, "No Limit Jeans". As you know, anything goes in advertising.

Of course, I may be wrong. 

Gaer


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## sneeka2

As a friend explained to me once: Japanese simply write stuff in another writing system to make it look cool. They'd write Japanese words in Katakana and vice versa. So 「*の*限界」 = "*No* Limit" is very probable.


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## s_a_n_t_i

I actually had thought the same. But the correct ways to write "No limit" would be 「ノー限界」, 「ノー・リミット」,「限界なし」, 「リミットなし」.
But you are right, in advertising, anything goes.
Santi.


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## gaer

s_a_n_t_i said:


> I actually had thought the same. But the correct ways to write "No limit" would be 「ノー限界」, 「ノー・リミット」,「限界なし」, 「リミットなし」.
> But you are right, in advertising, anything goes.
> Santi.


Exactly. And this is especially true when goods are being sold to people who do not know a thing about Japanese. So we may be wrong, but we may be right. 

Gaer


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## etudian

Santi is absolutely right.  As a Japanese, I can assure you that の限界 just means "the limits of", so it does not stand by itself.  Santi is also right in thinking that のis never used to mean English "no".


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## gaer

etudian said:


> Santi is absolutely right. As a Japanese, I can assure you that の限界 just means "the limits of", so it does not stand by itself. Santi is also right in thinking that のis never used to mean English "no".


Both Santi and I know very well that using "の" in this way would be incorrect. We just did not know to what lengths advertisers would go! 

I do have a question: is it common to do this, using something in this manner, with nothing proceeding it?  

I immediately thought:

??の限界

No limits of what? 

Gaer


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## etudian

I felt the same way: ??の限界.

You can't start a sentence with の限界 or, more generally, with の meaning "of". So it's not common at all. It's like you can't say

This is the end of

and stop there.


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## Aoyama

...*no genkai = the limit of* (something)
  No limit would be *mugen* , indeed the name of a brand of motorcycle parts and often found on jeans an tee-shirts (but logo is different).


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## gaer

Aoyama said:


> ...*no genkai = the limit of* (something)
> No limit would be *mugen* , indeed the name of a brand of motorcycle parts and often found on jeans an tee-shirts (but logo is different).


Just remember that "no limit", "no limits" in English has many nuances.

"Mugen" (無限？） might be a much better choice for "no limit(s)", but perhaps there is a copyright problem. So another company would not be allowed to use the same "brand name", or whatever you would call that in Japanese.


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## JohnTempleton

Hey guys thanks for all the help, sorry I couldn't reply earlier I was away on holiday. Indeed I don't know the origin of the shirt as I found it in a charity shop, so it could well be a fake. Anyway I hope that clarifies everything.

Nevertheless it was nice to see this post sparked such an interesting discussion! Though it does mean that, now that we have found "the limits of" this shirt, I probably won't be very inclined to wear it. New donation for the charity shop tomorrow =D


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## pink dragon

「の限界（のげんかい）」 = "no genkai" = limit of (something)

This (a phrase starting with "no") does sound strange to a Japanese native speaker.
I found out that *NO LIMIT JEANS LTD is a jeans manufacturer in U.K.* by Searching Google.
So I guess a non-native speaker translated their company's name into Japanese.
It seems that he/she translated "limit" correctly to "genkai", but just replaced English "no" (of no limit) with Japanese "no", ignoring (or not knowing) the Japanese grammatical rule.


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## Aoyama

That may very well be the case. 
A change from the usual (funny foreign language -english, french, italian etc- translated from japanese).
My favorite : *Comme ça du mode* (originally *ca*) , awkward word to word translation of the japanese : *kono you na no fashion* , not respecting french syntax and mistaking *le mode* with *la mode* .Correct phrase should be : *La mode comme ça  *


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