# Is/are either of you



## Sarp84224

Should I use is or are in the following sentence:

Is/Are either of you going to the cinema later?

Since either is singular, should I use is?


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## The Newt

"Are either of you...?" is what we say.


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## dojibear

Sarp84224 said:


> Since either is singular, should I use is?


Is "either" singular in this sentence? What are you asking? You are speaking to 2 people.
- Are you asking if *only 1 *of them is going later? Use "is".
- Are you asking if *one or both* of them is going later? Use "are".


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## jmichaelm

dojibear said:


> Is "either" singular in this sentence? What are you asking? You are speaking to 2 people.
> - Are you asking if *only 1 *of them is going later? Use "is".
> - Are you asking if *one or both* of them is going later? Use "are".



I was just thinking I would ask, "Are either of you going to the party?" but I would ask, "Is either of you Mr Jackson?"


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## Sarp84224

dojibear said:


> Is "either" singular in this sentence? What are you asking? You are speaking to 2 people.
> - Are you asking if *only 1 *of them is going later? Use "is".
> - Are you asking if *one or both* of them is going later? Use "are".



But, either is always singular, even if it refers to two people with ‘or’.


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## Sarp84224

jmichaelm said:


> I was just thinking I would ask, "Are either of you going to the party?" but I would ask, "Is either of you Mr Jackson?"



But, either requires a singular verb because it is singular. Or am I wrong?


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## Loob

Interesting question, Sarp84224!

I think I could say both "Are either of you going to the cinema?" and "Is either of you going to the cinema?"

Though I'd be more likely to use the second. Probably.


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## dojibear

Sarp84224 said:


> But, either requires a singular verb because it is singular. Or am I wrong?



You are wrong. Here is the reason:

Grammars do not define a language. The way people speak defines it, and grammars try to explain it. Grammars are simplified explanations of a complicated subject (a real language), so grammars are often wrong.

In one grammar (the grammar you looked at), "either" only means one person, and cannot mean two people. But in common English usage, "either" sometimes means "one or both". People change the "is" to "are" to indicate this change.


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## Sarp84224

Loob said:


> Interesting question, Sarp84224!
> 
> I think I could say both "Are either of you going to the cinema?" and "Is either of you going to the cinema?"
> 
> Though I'd be more likely to use the second. Probably.



Is how someone would say the question regional or formal vs informal?


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## Sarp84224

dojibear said:


> You are wrong. Here is the reason:
> 
> Grammars do not define a language. The way people speak defines it, and grammars try to explain it. Grammars are simplified explanations of a complicated subject (a real language), so grammars are often wrong.
> 
> In one grammar (the grammar you looked at), "either" only means one person, and cannot mean two people. But in common English usage, "either" sometimes means "one or both". People change the "is" to "are" to indicate this change.



How am I wrong? Because I disagree that common usage defines grammar? Rules are rules. If that is not the case, then there is no reason for people to ask questions on how about grammar and what is right or wrong if it’s simply subjective and how people decide to use words. You’re basically saying that ‘I seen’ is just as right as ‘I saw’ because some people say the former, and according to you common usage defines grammar - even though people know it’s a grammatical error.

Either is singular, whether you like it or not is another matter altogether.


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> But, either requires a singular verb because it is singular. Or am I wrong?


Well, "are" isn't necessarily plural. "You are" can refer to one person, as well as referring to several people. But I think in ""Are either of you going?", the issue isn't singular vs plural. If someone says "Are either of you?" they're thinking of *you*; if someone says "Is either of you?" they're thinking of _*either*_.


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> Is how someone would say the question regional or formal vs informal?


I don't think there's a regional angle. There might be a formality/informality one. I suspect that, in a formal context, I'd be more likely to say "Is either of you?".


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## Sarp84224

Loob said:


> I don't think there's a regional angle. There might be a formality/informality one. I think that, in a formal context, I'd be more likely to say "Is either of you?".



What about when the verb does not agree with the closest subject?

Example in the first sentence:

“Either *Grandpa or my sisters* are going to the park. (closest subject is plural) 

Either *my sisters or Grandpa* is going to the park. (closest subject is singular)”

Strictly speaking, should the verb ‘is’ be used in the first sentence since the subject is ‘either’? 

I do accept it may sound strange to some people’s ears and many people would be inclined to use the plural ‘are’.


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## Sarp84224

Using the rule of the verb agreeing with the closest subject then surely “Are either of you...” is correct since you takes a plural verb.


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> What about when the verb does not agree with the closest subject?
> 
> Example in the first sentence:
> 
> “Either *Grandpa or my sisters* are going to the park. (closest subject is plural)
> 
> Either *my sisters or Grandpa* is going to the park. (closest subject is singular)”
> 
> Strictly speaking, should the verb ‘is’ be used in the first sentence since the subject is ‘either’?
> 
> I do accept it may sound strange to some people’s ears and many people would be inclined to use the plural ‘are’.


I see where you're coming from, Sarp. But you're heading into areas of English usage where there is no easy answer. To be honest, I like neither
_Either *Grandpa or my sisters* are going to the park._
nor
_Either *my sisters or Grandpa* is going to the park. _

I would rewrite the sentence.


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> you takes a plural verb.


No, it doesn't. "Are" is the form that goes with "you", and "you" can be singular or plural.


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## Sarp84224

Loob said:


> I see where you're coming from, Sarp. But you're heading into areas of English usage where there is no easy answer. To be honest, I like neither
> _Either *Grandpa or my sisters* are going to the park.
> Either *my sisters or Grandpa* is going to the park. _
> 
> I would rewrite the sentence.



I’m confused.

So in essence, some people agree with the subject-verb agreement to mean that the subject closest to the verb should be the one that determines it and some people who think that the either as a pronoun should be used with a singular verb regardless if the two subjects are singular or plural? 

Am I right?


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## Sarp84224

Loob said:


> No, it doesn't. "Are" is the form that goes with "you", and "you" can be singular or plural.



You were not you was. You are not you is.


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> You were not you was. You are not you is.


Yes. I'm not sure what your point is here?


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## Sarp84224

I found this online: 

*“But either and neither are still singular, even when followed by a prepositional phrase containing a plural object.”*


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## Sarp84224

Loob said:


> Yes. I'm not sure what your point is here?



When does you ever take a singular verb?


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## Loob

Sarp84224 said:


> When does you ever take a singular verb?


In "Hello Sarp -  I'm glad you are here!"
(1) _*you*_ is singular
(2) the verb form _*are*_ is also singular.


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## Edinburgher

In the question "(is or are) either of you going?" there is only one subject, and this is "either of you", and it is singular.  There are not two subjects "either" (singular) and "you" (plural), but even if there were, the "closest subject" rule would note that "either" is closer to the verb than "you" and therefore the verb form for "either" should be used, and that is "is".

"Either of you" usually means "one or the other of you", and is therefore singular, and you need "is".
Informally, "either of you" can also mean "one or the other or both of you", and in that case it is plural, and you need "are".

Loob's point is that if you were asking "Are you going?", then "you" can be either singular or plural, depending on whether you are speaking to one person or to two or more.  But you would never ask "Is you going?".  The correct verb form for "you" is always "are", no matter whether it's singular or plural.

Singular: I am; you are; he/she/it is;
Plural:  We are; you are; they are.


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## The Newt

Sarp84224 said:


> Is how someone would say the question regional or formal vs informal?



I would say in part yes, given that the US speakers on this thread appear to be more open to "are either of you...?" than the UK speakers. In fact I would go so far as to say that "is either of you" sounds quite strange to us, except possibly in cases like "Is either of you Mr Jackson?" (as mentioned above).

"Rules are rules," but who sets the rules? Where do they come from if not from actual speech? Languages are, unfortunately, full of illogical quirks (which is a good part of why we're all here). In this thread it's not just a question of "some people" saying "I seen," which could be dismissed as either an error or a dialect usage, but of an ongoing open disagreement about how English ought to handle one particular situation. In such cases there is no one simple right answer.


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## The Newt

The disagreement, by the way, is not a recent one, nor is it confined to informal language. The following is from _The Shorthand Reporter_ from 1908 (emphasis added):

_“Do either of you gentlemen know either the plaintiff or the defendant?’’ ‘‘Have either of you heard of the controversy which is here presented as the subject of this lawsuit?’’ ‘‘*Are either of you* personally acquainted with the attorney on the other side?” “*Are either of you* aware that you are acquainted with anybody who is a party or a witness in this case?”_


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## Loob

The Newt said:


> US speakers on this thread appear to be more open to "are either of you...?" than the UK speakers


I'm not sure that's true, The Newt. I'm pretty open to "are either of you?", I think.


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## The Newt

Loob said:


> I'm not sure that's true, The Newt. I'm pretty open to "are either of you?", I think.



I stand corrected!


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## Loob




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## tunaafi

The Newt said:


> US speakers on this thread appear to be more open to "are either of you...?" than the UK speakers.



I'm an 'is' man, but I think that's probably a result of my age and rather formal education decades ago. My offspring (43 and 39), and most of their acquaintances seem to be in the 'are' camp.


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## Sarp84224

The Newt said:


> I would say in part yes, given that the US speakers on this thread appear to be more open to "are either of you...?" than the UK speakers. In fact I would go so far as to say that "is either of you" sounds quite strange to us, except possibly in cases like "Is either of you Mr Jackson?" (as mentioned above).
> 
> "Rules are rules," but who sets the rules? Where do they come from if not from actual speech? Languages are, unfortunately, full of illogical quirks (which is a good part of why we're all here). In this thread it's not just a question of "some people" saying "I seen," which could be dismissed as either an error or a dialect usage, but of an ongoing open disagreement about how English ought to handle one particular situation. In such cases there is no one simple right answer.



Well, all rules from the past were invented by people. What is your point? Of course languages are complex, but there are rules which are followed by the vast majority of native speakers of English or any other language. 

Why should ‘I seen’ be dismissed as an error by your logic? After all, according to you there is no right or wrong ways to speak and write a language. 

If you’re going to argue that language is just simply subjective and there are is no objectivity in how to speak and write a language then everyone asking questions on this forum may as well not bother. 

The reason natives of any language are able to speak to each other coherently is because of the rules of that language. Rules keep things in check. Pretty simple really.

Of course I’m not disputing that there is a difference between formal vs informal, but there is a reason why for example we say ‘I am’ and not ‘I is’.


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## The Newt

Sarp84224 said:


> [...]
> 
> Why should ‘I seen’ be dismissed as an error by your logic? After all, according to you there is no right or wrong ways to speak and write a language.
> [...]



I never said any such thing. My comments were in response to your blunt statement that "rules are rules." If we were playing tennis there are written rules maintained by recognized authorities whose job it is to decide what the rules should be. Some languages have academies to decide what is and isn't proper usage; English doesn't. What we do have are dictionaries, websites, forums like this one, and so on. These sources often arrive at a reasonable consensus (as they would regarding the status of "I seen" in standard English), but sometimes they conflict with each other. They also inevitably reflect the national origins or biases of their participants. 

In the long run, usage experts can't veto usage that becomes firmly established by actual speakers, which is why "errors" of the past have now become generally acknowledged as acceptable, even when they seem "illogical." How dare we, after all, refuse to use "whom," use "their" as a gender-neutral singular possessive, and so on, knowing that (in the past) doing so was regarded as being not only against accepted practice but illogical by nature? If language "rules were rules," such changes could never come about.

But all of this has been debated _ad nauseum_ here and elsewhere. Contray to what you assume, people who accept "Are either of you...?" aren't (necessarily) arguing against forming any judgment about what constitutes "good" and "bad" English; they're simply contending that that specific usage has become firmly established (perhaps more so in the US than in the UK), and recognizing that even usages that seem to be "illogical" can come to be regarded as acceptable.


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## tunaafi

The Newt said:


> people who accept "Are either of you...?" aren't (necessarily) arguing against forming any judgment about what constitutes "good" and "bad" English; they're simply contending that that specific usage has become firmly established (perhaps more so in the US than in the UK), and recognizing that even usages that seem to be "illogical" can come to be regarded as acceptable.



Quite. As I suggested in post #29, I use 'is', but I have come to accept 'are', just as I have come to accept many things that were 'bad English' in my youth. I even use some myself, when no one's looking.


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## jmichaelm

Sarp84224 said:


> How am I wrong? Because I disagree that common usage defines grammar?



Actually usage does define grammar, not the other way round. I think we all agree there is better and worse usage, but it's really the usage that makes the grammar.


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## Hermione Golightly

One possible objective consideration in this discussion is if the student wants their usage to be _indisputably _correct.


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## zaffy

Loob said:


> I think I could say both "Are either of you going to the cinema?" and "Is either of you going to the cinema?"
> 
> Though I'd be more likely to use the second. Probably.



This police officer is talking to two refugees. I guess 'do either' would be unacceptable in an exam. Don't you prefer "does either"?


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## Edinburgher

No, "do" is correct and "does" is incorrect, because "does" is the verb form for third person singular (he/she/it).
If you are addressing one person, you use the verb form appropriate to second person singular: _Do you speak English?_
If you are addressing two people as "either of you", it's singular, but still second person, so it should still be "do".


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## zaffy

Edinburgher said:


> No, "do" is correct and "does" is incorrect,



I got curious about what you said and needed to look it up. Looks like both are correct, with the plural verb being infomal.


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## zaffy

Just checked the ngram view. Yes, the plural form is way more popular.

Google Books Ngram Viewer


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## Loob

Edinburgher said:


> No, "do" is correct and "does" is incorrect


Unsurprisingly, given my earlier comments in this thread, I disagree.


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## Uncle Jack

I'd certainly say "do", and don't regard it in the least bit informal, but some people say "does", and I don't see either answer as being obviously correct or incorrect.

If the question was something expected to apply to only one of the people (and might not apply to either), such as "Is either of you Uncle Jack?", I don't think "Are either of you Uncle Jack?" sounds particularly natural. In the example in post #35, if the person was only thinking about one of them speaking English, because that would be sufficient, then they might well have used "does".

Of course, anyone who always treats "either" as singular will use "does". I have no idea how common this is in modern English. It is not something I think I'd notice.


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## Edinburgher

Uncle Jack said:


> Of course, anyone who always treats "either" as singular will use "does".


 This isn't just about singular vs plural.

Are you saying that "either of you" is third person?
I had been assuming that it's second person, where it makes no difference whether it's singular or plural, since both require "do".

If you take the view that "either of you" is third person, then there is a singular/plural difference, and "does" is singular but "do" is plural.

Ngrams shows that "do either of you" outnumbers "does either of you" by a large factor, which suggests that most writers either consider "either of you" to be second person, or they consider it to be plural (or indeed both).  Unfortunately, we can't tell which.


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## zaffy

And speaking of those two refugees context, would you use the plural form with 'neither' as well?

_Sadly, neither of them speaks/speak English.  _


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## Uncle Jack

Edinburgher said:


> Are you saying that "either of you" is third person?


Yes, just like "one of you", except that with "one of you" there is no doubt about which verb form to use.


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## JulianStuart

Edinburgher said:


> Ngrams shows that "do either of you" outnumbers "does either of you" by a large factor, which suggests that most writers either consider "either of you" to be second person, or they consider it to be plural (or indeed both).  Unfortunately, we can't tell which.


Sadly, the issue of whether more users (of those expressions) are expecting just one person to say yes than are anticipating the possibility of both people saying yes to the question, makes it even harder to interpret that Ngram data.


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## zaffy

JulianStuart said:


> Sadly, the issue of whether more users (of those expressions) are expecting just one person to say yes than are anticipating the possibility of both people saying yes to the question, makes it even harder to interpret that Ngram data.


And would you, Julian,  personally use 'do' or 'does' in #35?


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## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> And would you, Julian,  personally use 'do' or 'does' in #35?


I accept the possibility that they both might speak English, so do works well.
Context and logic play their usual role.
Does either of you have the key to the car?  That is when I know there is only one such key.
Do either of you like ice cream? A reasonable expectation that they both do


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## dojibear

zaffy said:


> And speaking of those two refugees context, would you use the plural form with 'neither' as well?
> 
> _Sadly, neither of them speaks/speak English. _


I would not. I would use "speaks".


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## dojibear

zaffy said:


> Just checked the ngram view. Yes, the plural form is way more popular.
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer


Perhaps the choice of words affects the choice of singular/plural. You showed us an NGRAM with the word "do/does". How about replacing "do/does" with "is/are"? This thread is about "is/are either", not "do/does either".

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Books Ngram Viewer

My conclusion from the NGRAMs is that both are common. It hardly matters which phrase an individual person uses.


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## JulianStuart

dojibear said:


> Perhaps the choice of words affects the choice of singular/plural. You showed us an NGRAM with the word "do/does". How about replacing "do/does" with "is/are"? This thread is about "is/are either", not "do/does either".
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer
> 
> My conclusion from the NGRAMs is that both are common. It hardly matters which phrase an individual person uses.


Again, we don't know what the questioner expects in those instances (only one of them or possibly both) - Ngrams can't be broken down based on that expectation, but it clearly influences the choice for some/many speakers.


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## dojibear

"The questioner's expectations affect the wording of the question."

I've seen that in other questions. It definitely affects questions like this.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> If the question was something expected to apply to only one of the people (and might not apply to either), such as "Is either of you Uncle Jack?", I don't think "Are either of you Uncle Jack?" sounds particularly natural.





JulianStuart said:


> Does either of you have the key to the car? That is when I know there is only one such key.
> Do either of you like ice cream? A reasonable expectation that they both do



This is a very clear and logical explanation. Grammar books don't do it. Thanks a lot.


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## zaffy

And when I ask you about various examples here in the forums, I always make it singluar. Does the plural form work too? 

_Does either sound natural? / Do either sound natural?
She loves tennis. 
She is into tennis. _


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> And when I ask you about various examples here in the forums, I always make it singluar. Does the plural form work too?
> 
> _Does either sound natural? / Do either sound natural?
> She loves tennis.
> She is into tennis. _


Use "does". Using a singular verb form is almost always the best choice unless the question is being addressed to the subject of the verb.


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## Edinburgher

I agree with UJ.  In this context "either" means "either one of the following two" and is therefore singular.  The answers expected are:
1: "No, neither of them do.",
2: "Yes, the first one does.", or
3: "Yes, the second one does".

If you also expect a possible fourth answer:
4: "Yes, both of them do.",

then perhaps it would have been better to change the question so that instead of "*either* of these" it uses "*any* of these", and this can be used with a plural verb. When there are more than two candidates, we use "any" anyway; "either" is only used with two, but there is no reason why "any" can't be used with two.


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## zaffy

Edinburgher said:


> 1: "No, neither of them *do*.",



Shouldn't it be "neither of them *does*"?


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## Edinburgher

zaffy said:


> Shouldn't it be "neither of them *does*"?


Oops.  Yes, it should.  Well done for spotting that!


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