# 電車、汽車、列車



## Aoyama

There was a time that you were told, when learning Japanese, that 電車 meant a local train (one that runs inside or between big cities), 汽車 would be a long distance train and 列車 would indicate a "train", as a convoy of cars, regardless of its nature.
Then you would also have the 新幹線 (the new main line), translated as the Bullet Train or the Tokaido line (but that is not true anymore as the ShinKanSen goes up North etc).
Of course, originally 電車 meant "electric train", whereas 汽車 meant "steam train".
Now, my question is : is 汽車 still relevant in contemporary Japanese ? One of my students, reading a subtitle in Japanese of a British movie where the word appeared said "this word [汽車] is funny, nobody would use it anymore".
True ?


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## Wishfull

Hi.
It is an interesting question.
It is true, except me. 

I think it is the matter of "*railway on the ground*".
Railway under the ground is called "subway" or　地下鉄, which has no confusion.

In older days, when the railway is not electrified, the vehicle which run on railways are called 汽車. First, it was a steam locomotive train long time ago, and then it became a diesel locomotive train. 

In today in Japan, almost all railways have become electrified, so they are called 電車.
But in part, in very rural area like my neighborhood, diesel locomotives are still running.


As an old rural man, I myself prefer to call them as ”汽車”.
But it doesn't make sense to younger generations, and urban people.

Young urban people might say 電車　even if they see a diesel locomotive. 汽車 is a dead language to them.


So your students are young, whereas the subtitle translator was an old man/woman.


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## Aoyama

Right, but diesel locomotives don't run on steam ... They should then be called 油車 ?


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## Wishfull

Hi.
We call it ディーゼルカー　instead of 油車. 

///////////////
きしゃ（汽車）；蒸気動力によって動く鉄道車両。ひろく鉄道一般の意味にも用いる。（広辞苑）

・・・・・・・・・・・・

「最近では、ひろく鉄道一般の意味に汽車を用いるのは、高齢世代の日本人であり、
若者は、「電車」をひろく鉄道一般の意味に用いるようである。」 というのが僕の持論であります。

（ちなみに新幹線も「電車」と呼ぶ若者がいますが、これは一般的ではないような気がします。モノレールを若者が「電車」と呼ぶか否かは、私は知りません。）


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## Aoyama

了解。ただし、簡単に言うと”汽車”と言うことば（言い方）がちょっと古臭いかなぁ。。。


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## Wishfull

Aoyama said:


> 了解。ただし、簡単に言うと”汽車”と言うことば（言い方）が*ちょっと古臭いかなぁ*。。。



Exactly！　That's it.


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## Aoyama

古臭いか時代遅れ。。。


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## Wishfull

I agree.
古臭い　is an excellent expression, and 時代遅れ is excellent too, to describe it.


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## almostfreebird

あと、へたに汽車とか言うと*ださい*とか思われるから口にしないんじゃないですか。

この場合、*ださい*ってhumorousな英語で何て言うんでしょうか？


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## Wishfull

Bingo! almostfreebird,

The　adjective "*ださい*" is perfectly match in this context, too.

(Though I don't know English equivalent.)


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## Aoyama

Dasai would be "shabby" ...
But this being said, nobody talks about 列車 which is probably the best generic and neutral term for "train" in 標準語...


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## rukiak

私も大体皆さんとおなじ意見です。

電車 is general expression, which means that it is for the train you usually take in Japan.
汽車 is old-fashioned but I don't care if somebody call 電車 汽車. I use 汽車 for trains which run through a continent like in Australia.
列車 is rarely used, but the definition "列車 would indicate a "train", as a convoy of cars, regardless of its nature." is right in a way that 列車 is used for 貨物列車and 寝台列車.

By the way, 汽車 was used generally when it was imported into Japan because it is moved by steam.
It is similar that a word 電気 is used for the light (table light, floor light, light in the town) because the light is caused by electricity.


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## almostfreebird

quote: One of my students, reading a subtitle in Japanese of a British movie where the word appeared said "this word [汽車] is funny, nobody would use it anymore". unquote

I think that student(maybe she) is pretentious.


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## Aoyama

> I think that student(maybe she) is pretentious


Well, true enough, it was a "she", and she could very well be pretentious ...


> I use 汽車 for trains which run through a continent like in Australia.


But then, they don't run on steam anymore ...


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## rukiak

Aoyama said:


> But then, they don't run on steam anymore ...



Logically, that's right.


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## kareno999

Aoyama said:


> There was a time that you were told, when learning Japanese, that 電車 meant a local train (one that runs inside or between big cities), 汽車 would be a long distance train and 列車 would indicate a "train", as a convoy of cars, regardless of its nature.
> Then you would also have the 新幹線 (the new main line), translated as the Bullet Train or the Tokaido line (but that is not true anymore as the ShinKanSen goes up North etc).
> Of course, originally 電車 meant "electric train", whereas 汽車 meant "steam train".
> Now, my question is : is 汽車 still relevant in contemporary Japanese ? One of my students, reading a subtitle in Japanese of a British movie where the word appeared said "this word [汽車] is funny, nobody would use it anymore".
> True ?


Some irrelevant comment: Wierdly in Chinese, 電車 means cable bus, 汽車 bus/car. 列車 means train too, but 火車 is a more colloquial word for train...


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## Wishfull

kareno999 said:


> Some irrelevant comment: Wierdly in Chinese, 電車 means cable bus, 汽車 bus/car. 列車 means train too, but 火車 is a more colloquial word for train...



kareno999さん、お返事ありがとうございます。火車がtrain とは知りませんでした。 中国語と日本語は共通点も多いのでしょうが、時々、まったく違った意味の言葉があって、おもしろいですね。

（Flamさんにご足労いただくのは大変恐縮なのですが、）
「火の車」は日本では、まったく違った意味になります。
「火の車」＝in bad condition, in serious situation
_我が家の家計は「火の車」です。_

Wishfull


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