# all Nordic languages: skífa/skiva/etc. vs. plata/etc.



## Gavril

How do the meanings of the first group of words differ from those of the second group in each of the Nordic languages?

For example, which of them (if either) is used to refer to

- any disc-shaped object

- a flat sheet of some material (metal, glass etc.)

- a CD or vinyl record

- any recorded collection of music (album, EP, single), regardless of the physical medium (CD, cassette, vinyl etc.) it is printed on

?

Thanks!


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## oskhen

In Norwegian, "skive" may refer to many disc-shaped objects, at least. Perhaps most. Both "skive" and "plate" may refer to a CD or vinyl record (though I believe "skive" is more commonly used for the former and "plate" for the latter", but that may simply have to do with the age of the people who usually talk about CD's and vinyl records, respectively). "Plate" may refer to a flat sheet of a material, usually one that is at least a bit hard/firm. Certainly metal, glass and wood. Often, a disc-shaped object may also be referred to as a "plate", if it's a sheet of glass, for instance, that just also happens to be disc-shaped. In this respect, the two words focus on/refer to different qualities of the object.    

I suppose that "skive"/"plate" could be used of a music collection that originates from a CD or vinyl record, just as one can talk about listening to a CD when the "CD" is on a computer. One would not use any of these words for a something from a cassette, I think. Concerning single: I don't know.


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## Tjahzi

The following goes for *Swedish*:

Introduction: the words in Swedish are _skiva _[ɧi:va] and _platta _['pʰlatʰ:a] respectively. However, it's worth mentioning that these words have grammatically different origins. _Skiva_ is derived from the identical verb _att skiva_ which means _to slice _or _cut into slices_, whereas _platta_ is derived from the adjective _platt_, meaning (and obviously being a cognate of) _flat_. (Maybe this was more or less known to you, but I felt it could be interesting to know in case not.)

So for the actual translation issues.

1. I'm afraid I find the first one to be a little to vague to give a good answer. Could you give an example of a _disc-shaped object_? Or is the essential part that it should be an unknown object which is disc-shaped?

2. In the second context, _skiva_ would be used. It occurs in compounds such as _glasskiva_ - flat piece of glass used in windows, picture frames and mirrors, _brödskiva_ - slice of bread_, metalskiva - _flat piece of metal. It should be noted however, that any flat piece of metal is to be considered a _metalskiva_. Its _skiva-_like attributes originate from being a part of something bigger. 
As such, one might start with a very big piece of metal (say 5x5m(x0.3cm)) and then decides to cut it into smaller pieces of maybe 50x50cm. Then you have a _skiva_. However, would yo go as far as maybe 3x8cm, then that would just be a _bit_ - piece.
Similarly, a _bordsskiva_ - table top/table leafis a piece of wood (well, usually) that was once part of something bigger.

3+4. Firstly, am I correct to assume that number three refers to the physical object on which the music is recorded, whereas the fourth is the "abstract" collection? My answer is based on the above assumption.

These are a bit hard to distinguish since the distinction between the very disc and the collection is rarely needed. However, I would say that in the case of the abstract concept, we use both, with _platta_ being slightly more colloquial/informal/cool. Though, while referring to the concrete object, I would find it quite odd to call it _platta_. Maybe that's because I'm more used to talk about various computer related discs (which do not hold musical collections and as such are never referred to as _plattor_). That said, I would find it a bit unnatural to refer to a music collection as a _platta _as well, but I do heard it frequently.

Having read oskhen's post, I'd like to add that _CD_ ['se:de:] is frequently used for the both 3 and 4.


Writing this, I came to wonder when exactly do we use _platta_ and what the difference in definition compared to _skiva_ is. I'm not done yet but I'm working on an answer.


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## Gavril

Tjahzi said:


> 1. I'm afraid I find the first one to be a little to vague to give a good answer. Could you give an example of a _disc-shaped object_? Or is the essential part that it should be an unknown object which is disc-shaped?



I meant any disc-shaped object: for example, a discus used in track-and-field competitions, a hockey puck, or an object whose only known property is being disc-shaped.

(Out of curiosity, what did you find vague about this question? Was it the use of the word "any"?)



> 3+4. Firstly, am I correct to assume that number three refers to the physical object on which the music is recorded, whereas the fourth is the "abstract" collection? My answer is based on the above assumption.



Correct.



> Writing this, I came to wonder when exactly do we use _platta_ and what the difference in definition compared to _skiva_ is. I'm not done yet but I'm working on an answer.



Thanks.


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## hanne

In general, I'd say that "skive" is something you've cut out of a bigger item, such as a slice of bread. "Skive" is more commonly used in Swedish than in Danish, so don't generalise Tjahzi's explanation .



Gavril said:


> - any disc-shaped object


A random disc-shaped object would be "en flad, rund ting" - but I don't see how I'd be talking about such an object without knowing a bit more about what it is. There's no generic term for this in Danish (nor in the other languages I believe), just like there's isn't one in English.



Gavril said:


> - a flat sheet of some material (metal, glass etc.)


This would depend on the material and the purpose, often "plade", but for example a sheet of glass for a window would be something else (probably just "et (stykke) glas", but I'm not a glazier).



Gavril said:


> - a CD or vinyl record


A vinyl is "plade"/"grammofonplade", a CD is just a CD - but is sometimes nicknamed "skive".



Gavril said:


> - any recorded collection of music (album, EP, single), regardless of the physical medium (CD, cassette, vinyl etc.) it is printed on


A recorded collection of music is called a library. An _item containing_ a recorded collection is generally named as the medium it's on (CD, cassette, vinyl, etc.). "Album" works in Danish, as in English.

As you may have observed, your frequent use of "any" and "some" makes the explanations so broad that it's impossible to give a real answer...


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## Tjahzi

Hm, well, I believe the reason I found it hard to answer the first question was because I couldn't think of any _disc-shaped objects_ that didn't already have a name. For instance, the once you mentioned are called _diskus _and_ puck_. Considering we are not as keen as the Icelanders to create new words with domestic material, I believe we mainly have loan words or compounds (such in the cases of _brödskiva, glasskiva, _etc) for such _objects_. (Then again, if you have more examples I'll gladly translate them, I just can't find any myself.) So, it was not just the word_ any_, although it might have confused me since it gave me a feeling of that there were many such objects (yet I couldn't think of any). 

Also, it might be too early, but so far, it seems to me that a _platta_ is more solid than a _skiva_. For instance, a building could be erected on a _betongplatta_ (_betong -_ concrete (building material)). Here, the focus is obviously on the _flatness_, focusing on the flat surface of the concrete, rather than the _sliceness_ (since there can be no such thing as a smaller _slice_ of concrete originating from a bigger whole, unlike in the cases of bread, wood or cheese). 
Additionally, and this might count to your first category above, _platta_ has an additional meaning, namely (cooking) _plate_. Then again, the full name is _spisplatta _(with _spis_ of course meaning _cooker_), but when I use the word _platta_ alone, I normally associate it with a _cooking plate_. Again, the focus is on being flat rather than "flat and part of something bigger".
Interestingly enough, a really big flat stone, used as a foundation could be both a _platta_ or a _skiva, _but in order for it to be a _skiva_, it must be very thin, I sense. Yes, something that is used as a foundation is almost always a _platta_. Maybe it matters whether the thin object is vertical or horizontal (obviously the _flatness_ is more prominent with horizontal objects). 

I'll do some more thinking, that was all for now.


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## cocuyo

_Skiva_ or _platta_ are used in Swedish for vinyl and older grammophone records, but as they are generic terms, they also may denote other flat objects, not necessarily round. 

The CD also might be referred to as _skiva_, but I never heard _platta_ in that context. 

A music collection, regardless of medium is a _musiksamling_ or a _låtsamling_. The medium, containing several musical pieces, whether vinyl, CD or cassette can be _ett album. _

The generic term _platta _refers to a flat (top-)side; hence a helicopter landing platform is a _helikopterplatta_, and the open place in front of Kulturhuset in Stockholm at Sergels Torg is called _Plattan_ colloquially. Also the flat portions of railway wheels caused by braking too hard are _plattor_ or _hjulplattor_. Stone slabs are _plattor_ as well.


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## Gavril

hanne said:


> In general, I'd say that "skive" is something you've cut out of a bigger item, such as a slice of bread. "Skive" is more commonly used in Swedish than in Danish, so don't generalise Tjahzi's explanation .
> 
> 
> A random disc-shaped object would be "en flad, rund ting" - but I don't see how I'd be talking about such an object without knowing a bit more about what it is. There's no generic term for this in Danish (nor in the other languages I believe), just like there's isn't one in English.



Actually, the word _disc _is used in English for anything disc-shaped, although there is usually some further specifying information included: _

The potter made a ceramic disc_.
_The blade of a table saw consists of a jagged metal disc_.
_I saw a large disc of ice floating in the lake._



> A recorded collection of music is called a library. An _item containing_ a recorded collection is generally named as the medium it's on (CD, cassette, vinyl, etc.). "Album" works in Danish, as in English.


I regret using the word "collection", as it seems to be confusing in this context. I meant what is called a _record _in English. For example:

_- This record hasn't yet come out on vinyl -- you can only get it as a CD or cassette.
- The band's new record can be downloaded from iTunes.
- Their new record is an EP -- they haven't released an LP__ for six years._

How would Danish and the other Nordic languages translate the word _record _in the above contexts? (Tjahzi has somewhat answered this question for Swedish.)


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## Tjahzi

Good examples. 

There are numerous ways to translate the first one, from _flat piece of ceramic_ via various compounds to _plate_. However, those compounds would be based on _skiva-_ or _tallrik (plate)_ rather than _platta_.

The second it a _metallskiva_. For some reasons, a _metallplatta_ is square shaped (rather than circular).

However, I can't really imagine an _isskiva _or even less an _isplatta_. A big, flat, piece of ice floating around is an _isblock_ or if it's flat enough, an _isflak._ (_Flak_ is part of the compound _lastbilsflak_ - _load-car-bed - truck bed, _but is normally used on it's own. As such, we have yet a word that denotes something flat and disc-like).

Additionally, I feel that I must add my thoughts regarding the information provided by cocuyo. To me, having grown up post-EP/LP/vinyl, there is no distinction between these various pieces of plastic on which music is recorded. They can all be referred to as _skiva_ or _platta_ depending on how cool one wishes to appear. 
_Album_ is a direct loan from English and used more or less identically.
However, referring to a CD/LP/album as a _musiksamling _sounds pretty much as natural as to refer to a library as a _book collection _or to a car as a _driving machine_. That is, it does cover the meaning, but is in no way the word of choice for pretty much anyone. I doubt I've ever heard the word _musiksamling_. Possibly _låtsamling _in the context of various "Best of X" collections. 
Though, it seems we are drifting off topic here... 

As for _record_, it is obviously derived from _recording_. However, Swedish simply has no such corresponding words. A song is called a_ låt_, and it can be released on various media.


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## cocuyo

I'd say that "låtsamling" perhaps could be attributed to a disc that it compiled of various songs, but a "musiksamling" would never be a single disc. However my 2000+ CD:s and about 50 LP:s as well as some thousand musical pieces on my hard drive indeed is a "musiksamling" (music collection). 

A few spelling corrections to Tjahzi's posts: "metall" is spelled with two l and "block" with ck.


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## Tjahzi

Well, yes, of course.

But considering we (Gavril, as the topic starter, and I) agreed upon the below definition for number three and four...ok, I now realize it is not completely obvious that we/I meant to say that the first is the piece of plastic (as in _the CD is in the player_) and the second is the collection of musical compositions compiled as a single unit (as in _have you heard his new CD?_). However, based on this definition, I believe there is no such thing as a _disc-shaped object _referred to as _musiksamling_. 



Tjahzi said:


> 3+4. Firstly, am I correct to assume that number three refers to the physical object on which the music is recorded, whereas the fourth is the "abstract" collection? My answer is based on the above assumption.


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## Ben Jamin

oskhen said:


> In Norwegian, "skive" may refer to many disc-shaped objects, at least. Perhaps most. Both "skive" and "plate" may refer to a CD or vinyl record (though I believe "skive" is more commonly used for the former and "plate" for the latter", but that may simply have to do with the age of the people who usually talk about CD's and vinyl records, respectively). "Plate" may refer to a flat sheet of a material, usually one that is at least a bit hard/firm. Certainly metal, glass and wood. Often, a disc-shaped object may also be referred to as a "plate", if it's a sheet of glass, for instance, that just also happens to be disc-shaped. In this respect, the two words focus on/refer to different qualities of the object.
> 
> I suppose that "skive"/"plate" could be used of a music collection that originates from a CD or vinyl record, just as one can talk about listening to a CD when the "CD" is on a computer. One would not use any of these words for a something from a cassette, I think. Concerning single: I don't know.


I would like to supplement this explanation with terms used in technology (for instance machines or construction): 'skive' is used mostly about round objects that may be moved, or actually are regularly in motion, while 'plate' usually about fixed elements of any shape, often covering something. But this is not a 100% rule, the meaning overlaps, there is a degree of free choice.


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## eoneo

According to my dictionaries and many online sources, Danish _skive_, Norwegian _skive_, and Icelandic _skífa_ also mean washer, except Swedish which instead uses _bricka_.
As these words are polysemous, compound words such as Danish _spændeskive_ can also be used to specifically mean washer.


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## jette(DK)

Here's another Danish input:

1. Skive

2. Plade

3. Plade

4. Album

*Re 1.* The online dictionary Ordnet.dk defines two different meanings of *'skive'*:

A. A slice cut out of something else (tyndt og jævnt stykke der er skåretaf noget især om et stykke skåret af brød, kød eller grøntsager = thin and even   piece cut or sawed out of something, especially bread, meat or vegetables)  - The meaning Hanne described, but not the one you'e looking for.

And B, exctly the meaning you're looking for:
B. A disc shaped object (flad, cirkelformet genstand, evt. med hul i midten = flat, circular object, sometimes with a hole through the center), re. eoneo's spændskive


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## NoMoreMrIceGuy

Gavril said:


> How do the meanings of the first group of words differ from those of the second group in each of the Nordic languages?
> 
> For example, which of them (if either) is used to refer to
> 
> - any disc-shaped object
> 
> - a flat sheet of some material (metal, glass etc.)
> 
> - a CD or vinyl record
> 
> - any recorded collection of music (album, EP, single), regardless of the physical medium (CD, cassette, vinyl etc.) it is printed on
> 
> ?
> 
> Thanks!



Diskur - any disc-shaped object

Plata, skífa - a flat sheet of some material (metal, glass etc.)

CD: Plata, skífa, diskur. Vinyl: Plata, skífa - a CD or vinyl record

Cassette: Snælda, spóla. Digital collection of an album: Diskur, plata - any recorded collection of music (album, EP, single), regardless of  the physical medium (CD, cassette, vinyl etc.) it is printed on


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