# Irish: Toin



## gencive

I would just like to check if 'thoin' is a gaelic word meaning 'ass', I found it to be so on the internet as part of 'pog mo thoin', (excuse my gaelic)but you never know...


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## maxiogee

_Toin_ is Irish for 'backside'. Not just the rude interpretation but also the back+side of anything. There is an area in Dublin called Tonlegee which derives from the Irish Toin-le-gaoith _back side to the wind._ In the expression "póg mo thoin" the genitive case causes the 't' to be muted. The original word toin would be pronounced _toyin_, but the phrase is pronounced _pogue muh hone_.


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## gencive

well thank you, the context didn't seem to be very rude so I had an inkling it couldn't be just 'ass', thank you very much for the explanations too. I gather than toin would be placed in front of the thing it qualifies:
a thoin gutter


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## virtdave

maxiogee said:
			
		

> _Toin_ is Irish for 'backside'. Not just the rude interpretation but also the back+side of anything. There is an area in Dublin called Tonlegee which derives from the Irish Toin-le-gaoith _back side to the wind._ In the expression "póg mo thoin" the genitive case causes the 't' to be muted. The original word toin would be pronounced _toyin_, but the phrase is pronounced _pogue muh hone_.



hmmm....does the word _pogue _(i.e., sailor slang for a cabin-boy, often a sexual toy of the captain) have any relation to this?  There was an Irish folk-rock group called _The Pogues_ whose first album was called _Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash._


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## maxiogee

virtdave said:
			
		

> hmmm....does the word _pogue _(i.e., sailor slang for a cabin-boy, often a sexual toy of the captain) have any relation to this?  There was an Irish folk-rock group called _The Pogues_ whose first album was called _Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash._



I can't answer for the sailor slang at the moment - but the band "_The Pogues_" changed there name to that when the BBC stopped calling them by their original name, which was the full expression. They had been using it unabridged until some spoilsport told someone in authority what it meant!

I don't know if other langauges have phrases which are used to tease foreigners, but until that band became famous foreigners were frequently told that *Póg mo thoin* meant "_pleased to meet you_" and other such innocuous statements.


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## DaleC

The alternation in Gaelic between 't' [t] and 'th'  is one of the mutations in the Celtic languages. 





			
				maxiogee said:
			
		

> In the expression "póg mo thoin" the genitive case causes the 't' to be muted. mutated


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## maxiogee

You may call it 'mutated' but when I speak it I am muting the pronunciation - the 't' is softened.


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## timpeac

Moved to other languages since this is about Gaelic.


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## Brioche

maxiogee said:
			
		

> _Toin_ is Irish for 'backside'. Not just the rude interpretation but also the back+side of anything. There is an area in Dublin called Tonlegee which derives from the Irish Toin-le-gaoith _back side to the wind._ In the expression "póg mo thoin" the genitive case causes the 't' to be muted. The original word toin would be pronounced _toyin_, but the phrase is pronounced _pogue muh hone_.


 
_Lenition_ is the word for that sort of change.
Often [wrongly] called _aspiration._

_thoin_ is not genitive. 
The lenition is caused by the possessive adjective _mo_ = my.

_my_, _you (singular)_ and _his _give rise to lenition  
_mo/do/a thoin = my/your/his bum_
_she_ does not mutate the consonant 
_a toin = her bum_
_our_, _your (plural)_ and _their_ cause eclipsis
_ár/bhur/a dtoin = our/your/their bum_


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## maxiogee

So, "*lenition*; the process or result of weakened articulation of a consonant" shows I was accurate with my _softened_ or _muted_.


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## L'irlandais

I am surprised nobody mentioned the (second) missing accent póg mo th*ó*in

Faoi thoinn = underwater (literally under the waves)
Tóin = backside
Tonn = wave


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## Assiduous student

Tón - in traditional Munster Irish. Póg mo thón. I don't know how to answer the question whether this is just a calque from English or not - I mean, did Irish people say this in the 19th century? Irish people were traditionally very Catholic and unlikely to resort to smut.


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