# Divano divano re divano resi



## momooishii

hello everybody, who could do me a favor to let me know if the following text is Latin or just an artificial language which never exists?

It is from the Mass of Era. And I wonder what does DIVANO means? Is it a true latin word or just a man-made word?



semper crescis aut descrescis 
vita detestabilis 
nunc obdurat et unc curat ludomentis aciem 

nunc obdurat et unc curat ludomentis aciem 
agestatem potestatem dissolvit ut glaciem 

Divano divano re divano resi 
Divano resido divano resia 
Divano divano re divano resido 
Divano resia 


Thanks in advance


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## XaLeX

I can't find it on any Latin dictionary, but I know in Italian it means "sofa".
It makes sense in the context so it could just be "I sit on the sofa".


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## Flaminius

Hi,

The first four lines (actually five but two duplicates) are taken from _Carmina Burana_, a mediaeval Latin anthology put to music by Carl Orff.  The next four lines look Italian, in which _divano_ is sofa, but do not seem to make sense in that language when words are put together into sentences.  Perhaps a mocked Italian or mocked Latin?


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## Kevin Beach

The Carmina Burana are written in a mixture of three languages in their medieval forms: Latin, German  and French.

The first five lines are from the version set by Carl Orff, but he didn't set everything from the anthology. Some of the verses are virtually gibberish and don't follow any rules. They depend for their effect more on their rhythm than on their meaning.


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## KungMartin

The reason the verses make no sense is because it's Pig Latin. 

These specific verses come from the Song "Divano" which is preformed by the group ERA, you can listen to the song on youtube, simply type "Era Divano" and pick the first video from the top.

Sorry for bumping such a old thread, just had to clarify since it was last ended inconclusive!!


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## Ben Jamin

momooishii said:


> O Fortuna, velut Luna statu variabilis,
> semper crescis aut decrescis;
> vita detestabilis
> nunc obdurat et tunc curat
> ludo mentis aciem;
> egestatem, potestatem,
> dissolvit ut glaciem


The correct wording of the song above.


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## XiaoRoel

> O Fortuna, uelut Luna statu uariabilis,
> semper crescis aut decrescis;
> uita detestabilis
> nunc obdurat et tunc curat;
> ludo mentis aciem,
> egestatem, potestatem,
> dissoluit ut glaciem…



Esta puntuación es más exacta. 
No se debe escribir *uve* que todavia no habia "inventado" Pierre de la Ramée, sino el grafema latino _*u*_ como en los manuscritos que seguían en esto el uso latino: la /u/ en latín clásico se pronunciaba [w], cuando era periferia de sílaba, y, aunque en la edad E.M. ya se pronunciaba oclusiva, fricativa o labiodental, no se usaba un nuevo grafema para el nuevo sonido y, de hecho, las _*uves*_ de los documentos medievales son *alogramas* de _*u*_ en ciertos estilos y en ciertos copistas, pero _sin seguir una regla_ (podía representar también la vocal ).


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## KungMartin

Ben Jamin said:


> The correct wording of the song above.



Oh whoops I thought he meant Divano with Era, but apparently he meant The Mass.

But Divano also uses the word Divano, which means nothing in Latin as far as I know.

Either way, Era's lyrics are pure Pig Latin, it's not real latin.


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## Cagey

I agree that it is not real Latin.  

However, I wouldn't call it "pig Latin". In English, _pig Latin _means a very specific kind of play with words, explained here: "AM-SCRAY" Pig Latin?

(Also: Look up "pig latin" at dictionary.com )


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## Ben Jamin

KungMartin said:


> Oh whoops I thought he meant Divano with Era, but apparently he meant The Mass.
> 
> But Divano also uses the word Divano, which means nothing in Latin as far as I know.
> 
> Either way, Era's lyrics are pure Pig Latin, it's not real latin.


 I meant 'O Fortuna' with music by Orff.


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## Ben Jamin

XiaoRoel said:


> Esta puntuación es más exacta.
> No se debe escribir *uve* que todavia no habia "inventado" Pierre de la Ramée, sino el grafema latino _*u*_ como en los manuscritos que seguían en esto el uso latino: la /u/ en latín clásico se pronunciaba [w], cuando era periferia de sílaba, y, aunque en la edad E.M. ya se pronunciaba oclusiva, fricativa o labiodental, no se usaba un nuevo grafema para el nuevo sonido y, de hecho, las _*uves*_ de los documentos medievales son *alogramas* de _*u*_ en ciertos estilos y en ciertos copistas, pero _sin seguir una regla_ (podía representar también la vocal ).



No créo que sea posible erradicar el uso popular de la letra *v* en textos latinos y en la pronunciación popular. Solo filólogos latinos van a adaptarse a esta ortografía.


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## seferjan

In Persian, Turkish and other languages the term _diwan_ came to mean a collection of poems by a single author, as in _selected works_, or the whole body of work of a poet. (Wikipedia)


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## Scholiast

Greetings

In this sense (seferjan #12) Goethe published in 1819 his youthful collection _West-Östlicher Diwan_. Where he got the word and idea from I have no idea, but he was -  as everyone else then was - classically educated. Perhaps a question for the German Forum?


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## XiaoRoel

No sé si estas enigmáticas palabras, ni latinas ni italianas (aunque con un cierto eco de estas dos lenguas), no serán más bien un apoyo fonético para poder entonar un *melisma*. Todas las sílabas tienen una, para el melisma, comoda estructura CV (excepto dos casos de C + D(iptongo). Que no pertenecen al texto de los Carmina Burana está fuera de toda duda. 
No creo que tengan significado alguno. Pura apoyatura para la melodía musical.


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## relativamente

XiaoRoel said:


> No creo que tengan significado alguno. Pura apoyatura para la melodía musical.



En efecto así debe ser. Además re, si y do son los nombres de la segunda septima y tónica de la escala de do, según se solfea en los paises del sur de Europa.
Tendría quizá sentido un poco traído por los pelos si leemos "diva non" No es una verdadera diosa la Fortuna porque actúa por capricho, no justamente, como dice el texto "ludo" "per ludum"


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## gab0ne

A few years later... ) But i'll write the answer so that those who still look for it, can find it. 

Divano = A book of music compositions. It's considered like a manuscript...

As for the lyrics, they are written in Pseudo-Latin, and are based on beliefs of the 13th century French Christian sect, the Cathars. 


Peace all! )


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## Kevin Beach

gab0ne said:


> A few years later... ) ..... As for the lyrics, they are written in Pseudo-Latin, and are based on beliefs of the 13th century French Christian sect, the Cathars.


I find that a very strange statement. The Cathars, or Albigensians, were Gnostics based in the South of France. However, the Carmina Burana come from further east, principally from Bavaria. There's nothing Gnostic about the songs and poems in Carmina Burana. 

Also, they are not all in Latin. There are songs in forms of German and French/Occitan too. Only the Occitan parts could conceivably have come from the area where the Cathars lived. Even so, there is nothing Gnostic about them. 

The Latin is fairly straightforward colloquial and regional medieval Latin, not pseudo Latin.

This Wikipedia entry is very helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana


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## CapnPrep

Kevin Beach said:


> This Wikipedia entry is very helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana


This one is even more helpful, since it's where gab0ne lifted his statement from: 
Era (musical project)

But as already established in this thread, the lyrics of "The Mass" are partly adapted from _O Fortuna_, with some other source for the "divano" business, which could very well be labelled "pseudo-Latin".


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## Kevin Beach

CapnPrep said:


> This one is even more helpful, since it's where gab0ne lifted his statement from:
> Era (musical project)
> 
> But as already established in this thread, the lyrics of "The Mass" are partly adapted from _O Fortuna_, with some other source for the "divano" business, which could very well be labelled "pseudo-Latin".


So gab0ne's comment has got nothing do to with Carmina Burana, then?

It's almost trollish. Wafna* even!



* See the "Abbas Cucaniensis" in Carmina Burana


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## teacherdehnavi

Divana in Persian means Crazy, In Love, Uncontrollable


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