# Gypsy



## Swettenham

The "gypsies," the "Romany," the "Roma"— these are a few names for a huge group of people who live in Europe.

They are said to have migrated to Europe from India centuries ago, and today form a minority/sub-culture in every European nation in which they live.  Furthermore, for each different locality, the "gypsies" who live there may have a unique culture distinct not only from that of the majority population but also from those of "gypsies" of other localities.

Hence, it is not surprising that they go by different names everywhere.  Each distinct "gypsy" population— from nation to nation— may also have a completely different name for itself.

It may be a mistake to refer to the "gypsies" as one group, as if they are all united and similar.  In fact, words used to refer to "gypsies" are often based on mistakes— racist or otherwise.  For example, many names developed from the early and incorrect assumption that the "gypsies" came to Europe from E*gyp*t (gypsy, gitano, etc.).  Other names, such as "traveller" in England, arise from a view of the "gypsies'" lifestyle.

What are "gypsies" called and what do they call themselves in your country?  How do these names reflect views of and beliefs about "gypsies" in your country?  How do they reflect the "gypsies'" own culture and the way they relate to the majority culture in your country?


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## Jana337

The politically correct name in Czech is *Rom* (sing.), *Romové *(pl.). 
Many of them, however, take offence and proudly insist on the old word *Cikán, Cikáni*, which, in turn, is considered offensive by some groups who prefer *Romové*.

Jana


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## alby

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The politically correct name in Czech is *Rom* (sing.), *Romové *(pl.).
> Many of them, however, take offence and proudly insist on the old word *Cikán, Cikáni*, which, in turn, is considered offensive by some groups who prefer *Romové*.
> 
> Jana


 

It's similare in Croatia, politically correct name is Rom (sing.), Romi (pl.).
But people call them Cigani (pl.), Cigan (sing.m), ciganka (sing.f)

Nataša


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## mandarina_82

in spain i only know the word "gitanos' to call them. it depens on how u say it, it can be pejorative or not. i think they use it to refer to themselves too.
i know they have an own language, "romani" and now it is an official language in spain (1 month ago) but i always hear gypsy people talking in spanish so i don't know how it is spread.


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## belén

I also know the word "cíngaro" 



> *cíngaro**, ra**.*
> (Del it. _zingaro_).
> * 1.* adj. *gitano*  (ǁ de un pueblo originario de la India). U. t. c. s.
> * 2.* adj. *gitano*  (ǁ propio de los gitanos o parecido a ellos).
> 
> _Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados_


 
which could perfectly derive from the words stated above by Jana and Alby.


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## Fernando

I would say:

Gitano: Ever, when a "payo" (not-gypsy) is talking.
Cíngaro: When talking about a Balkan-origin gyspsy.
Romaní: Politically correct form. In Spain the Association of gypsies is called something alike "Federación de Asociaciones Romaníes"

Spanish gypsies use many idiosincratic words, but they speak mostly plain Spanish (or, some of them, Catalan in Catalonia). They claim they can understand with Hungarian and Middle Europe gypsies in "romaní", but, as is a spoken language, with no written form until a few years ago I am unsure of this.


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## Kräuter_Fee

Portuguese: cigano
German: Zigeuner


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## dejan123

in SLO the same as Croatia

Cigani


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## Agnès E.

In French, the trendy politically correct term is *gens du voyage* (travelling people).
But this phrase is only used by politicians and medias.
The streetman says: *les gitans* (especially in the Southern half of France), *les romanichels* (a bit old-fashioned anyway, this word comes from a mixing with Romanian), *les bohémiens* (same as romanichels; coming from Bohemians).


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## Whodunit

Kräuter_Fee said:
			
		

> German: Zigeuner


 
Correct. More info:

der Zigeuner (m.sg.)
die Zigeunerin (f.sg.)
die Zigeunerin (m.pl.)
die Zigeunerinnen (f.pl.)

There're two possible politically correct terms for that kind of people:

der Rom (m.sg.)
die Rom (f.sg.)
die Roma (pl.)

der Santo (m.sg.)
die Santo (f.sg.)
die Santi (pl.)


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## _sandra_

Hi there,
In Polish politically correct term is: *Rom* (sing.); *Romowie *(pl.). However it's only used in media, universities and so on. The popular name is: *Cygan* (sing) *Cyganie *(pl) and I believe it can be considered offensive by some groups.
Sandra

ps. Unfortunately in Polish this popular term *can* have negative associations as there is a verb _ocyganić/cyganić_ (which derives form _cygan_) =  a very old fashioned word for cheating (so _cygan_ = a cheater/ liar then).


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## amikama

Hebrew: צועני (pronounced _tso'ani_, pl. צוענים, _tso'anim_). If I don't mistake, this word is derived from the verb צען which means "he wandered, migrated".
As far as I know, it's a neutral word and has no negative connotations.


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## Idioteque

In Italian we have many different terms:

Zingari (m. pl), zingare (f. pl), zingaro (m. sing), zingara (f. sing)---> this is the most common form, together with Rom (indeclinable noun)

Zigano and Gitano are two much commonless forms...

Hope it helps,  

Bye, Laura


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## elroy

Arabic: *غجري* (ghajari)


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## walnut

Italian: 
The 2 principal groups names are Rom/Roma and Sinti (all principal italian circuses are led by sinti families). These names are commonly used, Rom in particular.
"Nomadi" is today the most common politically correct (and generic) expression. 
"Zingaro" is quite common as well, and derogative.
"Gitano" is rare and literary, old-fashioned.
The old-fashioned "tzigano" was common as an adjective: "Un violino tzigano" = a gypsy violin.


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## JESUS MARIA

mandarina_82 said:
			
		

> in spain i only know the word "gitanos' to call them. it depens on how u say it, it can be pejorative or not. i think they use it to refer to themselves too.
> i know they have an own language, "romani" and now it is an official language in spain (1 month ago) but i always hear gypsy people talking in spanish so i don't know how it is spread.


.

  Good afternoon Mr. Sweetnham:
_Sorry for not answering you before._
_In Spain themselves are called *"Caló"*_* .I suppose this word becomes from their own language spoken in Spain: Caló.*
_Formerly their main activities were founded in selling and domestic trading. They were always travelling all around Spain. I had got several gypsies._
_  The politically correct form to call them actually is *"Colectivo Rom".*Actually most of them only speak Spanish, but they are trying to rescue their own language.In Spain is not spoken Roman language, only 0,1 per cent._
_  Actually they need to rescue their older caló language(it is between Roman and spanish language)._
_  Nowadays they work selling clothes and another things such as iron works, but the most of them have not attended university courses._

_  Hope it helps you Mr.Sweetnham._


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## natasha2000

alby said:
			
		

> It's similare in Croatia, politically correct name is Rom (sing.), Romi (pl.).
> But people call them Cigani (pl.), Cigan (sing.m), ciganka (sing.f)
> 
> Nataša


 
same in Serbia
Natasha
(what a coincidence, the same name, isn`t it?)


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> Arabic: *غجري* (ghajari)


 
Except for your version, my dictionary also gives *نور* (nawar) as a collective term for "gypsies". What do you think about that?


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## mia04

in greek i think its 'tsiganos'


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## Swettenham

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Except for "Besides"/"In addition to" your version, my dictionary also gives *???* (nawar) as a collective term for "gypsies". What do you think about that?


I'd be interested to know if the Arabic terms, as well as all the other terms that have been mentioned here, have meanings or noteworthy origins.

I have heard that populations of Romany-speakers and their descendants stretch from India to Spain— is this true?  Are there minorities, however tiny, of gypsies in Arabic speaking nations?



			
				Chus said:
			
		

> Hope it helps you Mr.Sweetnham.


Your comments were very interesting, sir.  Thank you!

Thank you for mentioning Caló especially, Jesús.

*Does anyone on this forum speak Caló or Romany?  Or does anyone know at least a little bit about Caló or Romany or know somebody who does?*


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## Outsider

_Caló_ is the Romance dialect spoken by Iberian gypsies. Note that it is not the same as _Romany_. I think the Wikipedia has a small entry on _caló_.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Except for your version, my dictionary also gives *نور* (nawar) as a collective term for "gypsies". What do you think about that?


 
I believe *نور* is a specific tribe of gypsies, but I'm not positive.  *غجر *is certainly the official term.


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## elroy

Swettenham said:
			
		

> I'd be interested to know if the Arabic terms, as well as all the other terms that have been mentioned here, have meanings or noteworthy origins.
> 
> I have heard that populations of Romany-speakers and their descendants stretch from India to Spain— is this true? Are there minorities, however tiny, of gypsies in Arabic speaking nations?


 
I don't know about the etymology, but I do know that "nawar" (the term Whodunit asked about it) is used in everyday speech in a derogatory way.  It refers to those who are uncouth, uncivilized, uncultured, etc.  "Ghajar" (the "official" term I suggested) is also used in that way, but much more rarely.

I do not know of any gypsies in Palestine.


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## yoli_gee

In Spain they get called Gitanos, as some of you have already pointed out.  However they often refer to themselves as La Raza Calé and they say that they speak Calé also.  Below we can see the definition of Calé that the online Diccionario de la Real Academia offers:

*calé**.*(Del caló _caló_, negro).*1.* m. *gitano* (ǁ individuo de un pueblo originario de la India).*2.* (Por el color oscuro de la moneda de cobre, en oposición a la de plata). m. Moneda de cobre que valía un cuarto, o sea cuatro maravedís.*3.* m._ Col._ y_ Ecuad._ Antigua moneda de cuartillo de real.


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## Tabac

In Turkey, they are _Çerkez._


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## Yang

Chinese:吉普賽(人), simply translated from its pronunciation.


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## JESUS MARIA

Swettenham said:
			
		

> Your comments were very interesting, sir. Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for mentioning Caló especially, Jesús.
> 
> *Does anyone on this forum speak Caló or Romany? Or does anyone know at least a little bit about Caló or Romany or know somebody who does?*


 
  Good Afternoon mr. Swettenham:
*"Motho manqe,Rrom¡ ea, kaj amari phuv,*
*amare plaja, amare lená, amare umála*
*Thaj amare vesa?*
*Kaj amaro them?*
*Kaj amare limora?*
*-And_e lava tane, amare chibaquere"*

* Por así decirlo, en España el idioma caló, es como el spanglish del Romaní.*

*  I hope it helps you, Mr. Swettenham.*
* Good bye.*
*Do you Know anything about sanscrito?*


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## Fernando

Jesus maria, ¿cómo se supone que debemos pronunciar las "th", "j", "ph"?

How are "th", "j", "ph" pronounced?

Los términos que ha pasado al castellano desde el calé (o por lo menos que los payos les atribuimos), como gachí, churumbel, payo,.. ¿son específicamente ibéricos o "romaníes"?

The words "gachí, churumbel, payo...", are romani (international 'gypsy") or Iberian?


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## cherine

elroy said:
			
		

> I don't know about the etymology, but I do know that "nawar" (the term Whodunit asked about it) is used in everyday speech in a derogatory way.  It refers to those who are uncouth, uncivilized, uncultured, etc.  "Ghajar" (the "official" term I suggested) is also used in that way, but much more rarely.
> I do not know of any gypsies in Palestine.


There are gypsies in Egypt. They're called ghagar غجر but also هنجرانية hungaraneyya (notice that the word sounds like hungarians, maybe it did come from hungarian origin ?) As for nawar, they're not exactly gypsies, but mostly bands of theives. There's a TV serial broadcasted these days, showing that their is a difference between the two groups (gypsies and nawar). Either ways, the two groups are related to stealing, pickpocket (is this word still in use?)...
As for their language : they speak Arabic, and I heard they have their own language too.


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## Fernando

It is funny to say that in Spain they are said to come from Egypt. 

As an example, one of the best known gypsy singer was niknamed "La Faraona" (the female-pharao).

Most scholars think this "thesis" is just rubbish.


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## hald

There are signs of a supposed Egyptian origin in french too. In Notre Dame de Paris, Hugo uses the word "égyptien" to refer to gypsies :



> – *L'égyptienne* ! dit Mahiette en rebroussant brusquement chemin, et en serrant avec force le bras de son fils. Dieu m'en garde ! elle me volerait mon enfant ! – Viens, Eustache !


 
Gypsies are also called "tziganes" in french.


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## JESUS MARIA

Fernando said:
			
		

> Jesus maria, ¿cómo se supone que debemos pronunciar las "th", "j", "ph"?
> 
> How are "th", "j", "ph" pronounced?
> 
> Los términos que ha pasado al castellano desde el calé (o por lo menos que los payos les atribuimos), como gachí, churumbel, payo,.. ¿son específicamente ibéricos o "romaníes"?
> 
> The words "gachí, churumbel, payo...", are romani (international 'gypsy") or Iberian?


.

  Fernando, amigo mío:
La verdad es que me gustaría saberlo a mí también.
Si puedes leer "EL PAIS-Domingo 30 de Octubre,Suplemento dominical-Reportaje 05", lo "calqué" de allí. No habla de la pronunciación, y a mí también me sorprendieron las dobles vocales.
  Lo siento.
Jesús.


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## natasha2000

JESUS MARIA said:
			
		

> Good Afternoon mr. Swettenham:
> *"Motho manqe,Rrom¡ ea, kaj amari phuv,*
> *amare plaja, amare lená, amare umála*
> *Thaj amare vesa?*
> *Kaj amaro them?*
> *Kaj amare limora?*
> *-And_e lava tane, amare chibaquere"*
> 
> Leyéndo esto, me parece mucho a la lengua de gitanos de Serbia...
> Claro, no tengo ni flores que significa, pero leyendo las palabras...


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## MarcB

Gypsy song:
*Opre Rroma* 
Gjelem, gjelem, longone dromensa, 
Maladilem baxtale Rromensa. 
¿A, Rromale, katar tumen aven, 
E carensa, baxtale dromensa? 
¡A, Rromale! 
¡A, Chhavale! 
The rest here
English pal from Romanes Pral=brother Español=Chavale pl. of Chavo boy. CALÓ from Romanes Kalah from Sanscrit kalah=black Roma also live in China,Arabic countries North and South America.
*Roma Anthem* 
Traveling, traveling long, long ways, 
Merry Roma folks I've met. 
Oh, Roma, where might you be from 
With tents so merry on your ways? 
Oh, Roma folk! 
Oh, Roma youth! 
The rest here


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## Ilmo

Finland:
Hoy en día la manera correcta de llamarlos es usar el término "romani".
Antes, creo que hasta los años 1980, se usaba la palabra "mustalainen", que sería traducido literalmente "negrolandés" o algo así. Se decía que el término era despectiva puesto que refería al color de piel un poco más oscuro que el de los "nativos".


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## nitad54448

Agnès E. said:
			
		

> , *les romanichels* (a bit old-fashioned anyway, this word comes from a mixing with Romanian), *les bohémiens* (same as romanichels; coming from Bohemians).



Hi, There is a frequent error (even in BBC english dictionary) concerning the name Rom (as "gitanes" in french, "tsiganes" in romanian) and Romania as a country.  There is nothing to do with the country which has its name from "Romans".
N


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## Teal

Swedish: A "zigenare", a gypsy, or the "romer" as a people (the rome). We also have the term "tattare", which is very foul wording. I may be speaking out of my buttocks, but in Swedish, it basicly means "he who takes without neccesarily asking".

Jeesh, these forums dun seem very inquisative about Swedish. ^^


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## broasca

In Romanian, the right word is *rom* (sg), *romi*(pl),but people usually call them *tigan*i (pronounced "tzigani")...however,I know gypsies get offended if you call them "tigani" (they spit on you),and I know the Romanian authorities at one point tried to ban unsuccessfuly the word "Romani/Roma/Romany" because it resembles too much the word "Romanian".


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## Teal

Interesting.. tigani sounds very much alike the Swedish word for beggar, a "tiggare", and the verb for begging (for money etc.) is "tigga". Revelation!


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## kelebek

en turco es çingene


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## surfingnirvana

Well, Romanes is Indic.  It is closest related to Sanskrit.  Gypsies come from India and travelled through Pakistan Iran Turkey and Armenia to Central Europe.  

There are many efforts at standardizing Romany, because its speakers have a tendency to blend it with local languages.  However, root Romanes words are easy to spot by most Romany.  It has been said that certain speakers of different Romany dialects can communicate better than a Quebec dialect of french and a Parisian.  Much like Irish it is going a huge revival attempt, although materials are still scarce.

I am one fourth Roma and my grandfather speaks it, but usually in not so nice manners .  I was thinking of learning the language, but its still no the shelf.


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## macta123

In Hindi  :

Banjarey


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## Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!

AFAIK, "Cikáni/Gitanos/Ţigani/Zigeuner/Çingene"/etc. ultimately derive from the Greek term Athiganoi, which was originally the name of a Manichaean sect that practiced divination. There are some snippets here and there on the web. "Gypsies" come from "Egypt".

There's something about the language here, for instance.


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## optimistique

In Dutch they are called 'zigeuners' or to indicate them as a kind of people/nation (what's 'volk' in english??) 'de Roma'.


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## La-Turkish-Chiiqa

*In Danish;* Sigøjner
*In Turkish;* Çingene


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## ukuca

In turkish, "çingene" (like tzgane [fr]). And we say "Roman" because I guess being a "çingene" is often assumed as an insult or a bad thing.


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## Abbassupreme

I'm pretty sure gypsy is "koli" in Persian.  "Gypsies" is "koli-haa"


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## spakh

Tabac said:


> In Turkey, they are _Çerkez._


 
I think that is not true, as 'Çerkez' is a Circassian and it has nothing to do with gypsies. In Turkish "Roman, Romen, çingene, şopar" are used for gypsies. 'şopar' means a gypsy child, but it may be a little bit offensive.


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## coconutpalm

Bohemians are Gypsies, right? Both are transliterated into Chinese.
Bohemian:波希米亚人bo1 xi1 mi3 ya4 ren2
Gypsy:吉普赛人ji2 pu3 sai4 ren2, as our Taiwan friend has pointed out.


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## Etcetera

In Russian: цыг*а*н. Interestingly, it's one of the few words in Russian which are written with ы after ц.


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## übermönch

It should be noted that Zigeuner in German is not just politically incorrect, but a full fledged insult implying being criminal or asocial and there have been cases where alone public display of this word lead to persecution accoring to German anti-defamation laws. On contrary the Russian word 'Tzygane' (Цыгане) is a normal, even official and correct term for the ethnic group.


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## Chazzwozzer

Turkish word *çingene*_ (cf. *çıngar *"fight", from *τςίγγρα*)_ comes from Greek *τςιγγάνα *(tsingána) [f.] Well, most politically correct word is *Roman*, which has been borrowed from Romany. The word, of course, varies in different parts of Turkey; *çingit *in Samsun and Amasya, *p**oşa *in Artvin, *dom *in Van and Hakkari... In Edirne, as I've read, they also call them *esmer vatandaş* _(dark-skinned citizen)_ or *kara kuvvetleri *_(land forces).

_


Tabac said:


> In Turkey, they are _Çerkez._


Çerkez is Adyghe, and they have nothing to do with Romany folk.


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## karuna

Latvian: čigāns (male), čigāniete (female)


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## spakh

Chazzwozzer said:


> Turkish word *çingene*_ (cf. *çıngar *"fight", from *τςίγγρα*)_ comes from Greek *τςιγγάνα *(tsingána) [f.] Well, most politically correct word is *Roman*, which has been borrowed from Romany. The word, of course, varies in different parts of Turkey; *çingit *in Samsun and Amasya, *p**oşa *in Artvin, *dom *in Van and Hakkari... In Edirne, as I've read, they also call them *esmer vatandaş* _(dark-skinned citizen)_ or *kara kuvvetleri *_(land forces)._
> 
> 
> Çerkez is Adyghe, and they have nothing to do with Romany folk.


 

As far as I know Turkish 'çingene' comes from Farsi 'çengiyan' (çeng + yan). çeng is a kind of instrument and çengiyan means musicians who play çeng.


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## SonicChao

In Esperanto it's cigano.


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## Lugubert

Teal said:


> Swedish: A "zigenare", a gypsy, or the "romer" as a people (the rome). We also have the term "tattare", which is very foul wording. I may be speaking out of my buttocks, but in Swedish, it basicly means "he who takes without neccesarily asking".
> 
> Jeesh, these forums dun seem very inquisative about Swedish. ^^


_Zigenare_ is nowadys mostly avoided; _romer_ is certainly preferred. _Tattare_ refers more to 'travellers', and is nowadays very seldom heard even as an insult like it quite often was was in my salad days. Etymologically, it's rather obviously just refering to people from Central/West Asia, the _tartars_. A long time ago, we had names suggesting an Egyptian origin. Compare French _égyptiens_ etc.

To the best of my knowledge, we have had no label referring to Böhmen (Bohemia), or to the colour black. Our Finnish neighbours, however, use, besides _romaani_, _mustalainen_ 'the black ones'.


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## spakh

قِبْطِيّ As far as I know in Arabic 'kıbti' is also used for gypsy, and I tried to type it here. I hope it is legible. In order; qaf, ba, ta, ya. 

As I know kıbti means an Egyptian in Turkish, though I cannot find it in TDK dictionary.

Also, can 'manouche' be used in French?


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## Spectre scolaire

_Kıptî_ in Turkish is a “Copt”, not the general term for an “Egyptian” (which is _Mısırlı_), but it can also mean a "Gypsy".

French _manouche_ is an interesting word. It means “a wandering gypsy” and harks back to a word in their own language which means “man”.

This word can also be used as an adjective: _de la musique manouche_, “Gypsy music”, esp. the one inspired by Django Reinhardt.


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## Chazzwozzer

spakh said:


> As far as I know Turkish 'çingene' comes from Farsi 'çengiyan' (çeng + yan). çeng is a kind of instrument and çengiyan means musicians who play çeng.


And what I know is the Greek word travelled all the way to Persian and came into being in that language as *çingâne*. In modern Persian, they, however, are refered to as *ولی (kowli)*. 

But perhaps you're right, I don't feel very strong with my argument.

*Kıptî *_*(**pl. kabat**î)*_ is used to refer either an Egyptian, or a gypsy. I don't think it's ever possible to hear this word these days, or a more 'specific' term formed for a gypsy, *merdikıpt**î.*


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## Maja

Jana337 said:


> The politically correct name in Czech is *Rom*  (sing.), *Romové *(pl.).
> Many of them, however, take offence and  proudly insist on the old word *Cikán, Cikáni*, which, in turn, is  considered offensive by some groups who prefer  *Romové*.





_sandra_ said:


> Hi there,
> In Polish  politically correct term is: *Rom* (sing.); *Romowie *(pl.). However  it's only used in media, universities and so on. The popular name is:  *Cygan* (sing) *Cyganie *(pl) and I believe it can be considered  offensive by some groups.





Etcetera said:


> In Russian: цыг*а*н.  Interestingly, it's one of the few words in Russian which are written with ы  after ц.





alby said:


> It's similare in Croatia, politically  correct name is Rom (sing.), Romi (pl.).
> But people call them Cigani (pl.),  Cigan (sing.m), ciganka (sing.f)


In Serbian, similarly to what was  said above: 
Ciganin (sing.m.), Ciganka (sing.f.), *Cigani* (pl.m.)  Ciganke (pl.f.); 
PC term: Rom (sing.m), Romkinja (sing.f), *Romi  *(pl.) Romkinje  (pl.f.) (although I heard them using the term "Cigani"  amongst them selves!).


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## Destruida

Swettenham said:


> I'd be interested to know if the Arabic terms, as well as all the other terms that have been mentioned here, have meanings or noteworthy origins.
> 
> I have heard that populations of Romany-speakers and their descendants stretch from India to Spain— is this true?  Are there minorities, however tiny, of gypsies in Arabic speaking nations?
> 
> Your comments were very interesting, sir.  Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for mentioning Caló especially, Jesús.
> 
> *Does anyone on this forum speak Caló or Romany?  Or does anyone know at least a little bit about Caló or Romany or know somebody who does?*



Yes, me. That's why I was searching to see what had already been posted. I never spoke much and am forgetting all human tongues, but this is a small part of my blood and an enormous part of my experience and -  you know, "who I am." I'm awfully ill at the moment, but I'll try to collect a lot of links and some extra information from life and post it all soon. (I'll put links in the resources suggestions section.)


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## Destruida

Agnès E. said:


> In French, the trendy politically correct term is *gens du voyage* (travelling people).
> But this phrase is only used by politicians and medias.
> The streetman says: *les gitans* (especially in the Southern half of France), *les romanichels* (a bit old-fashioned anyway, this word comes from a mixing with Romanian), *les bohémiens* (same as romanichels; coming from Bohemians).



Well yes, but it does depend which part of France and which families. In the Centre are the _Manouches _(Frenchified Manush, which is probably altered anyway) who refer to themselves as Manouches; they're mostly the families Duvil, Chevalier, Robin and combinations of the three. They also call themselves Gens du Voyage (people of the road/voyage) voyageurs or, proudly, les Tziganes. They have their own Christian church, called La Mission Évangélique des Tziganes en France, originally Vie et Lumière, which is very active and important. You can see on Youtube the Bible-study summer schools, where they learn to read an write and families meet and celebrate - and sing. 
In the south-west - Aquitaine - and all up the west coast, as well in Normandy, they're Manouches, etc. as above. In the south, some call themselves Gitans, but I didn't stick around - no way!
The politically correct term now is Gens du Voyage, as AgnèsE says, but of course, there are a great many voyageurs who are forains (showmen, a few circuses and people who work markets or fairs) as well as some itinerant workers, so it's an administrative term to denote people who live in a vehicle and move about; it doesn't differentiate between them. 
Romanichel and Bohémien aren't considered very polite, on the whole.
When you enter a town or village, there are signs to the post office, town hall, church, school and the Terrain d'Acceuil (welcome) des Gens du Voyage, but until recently it'd say Terrain.. ..Nomades and some still do.


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## Destruida

Most importantly, Rom means person, human being. Many gadjes don't regard Romany people as human - little do they know! 
When you are part of the traveller community, you cross that invisible line into a completely different culture, but you can't learn or understand from outside, or playing at it for a while.


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## mataripis

If Gypsies are Nomadic people this means that almost all ethnic groups of People in many countries belong to this group(nomadic). here in the Philippines, the Nomadic tribes are 1.) Ita  (western Luzon in Zambales and Pampangga Provinces)  2,) Badjaw (Zambowangga of Mindanaw)  3.) Bihug(of Bikol region and portion of Quezon province) etc.  the Semi-nomads are many groups of people called "Dumaget" .Areas around Manila were their former location before spanish colony.When population grew they moved to the mountains East of Manila called "Sierra Madre" or "e Bukwad a Ena" in their language. They were the origin of many Brown race(Kayumanggi= intermarried/bred with european and other semitic races) groups in the whole archipelago of the Philippines and even in most part of southeast Asia. They have dark red skin but with pointed nose and look like Indian origin. If Sanskrit has "mantra" Karma words, in their language they exist too.They do not eat beef and goat's meat.( a hindu belief?)Their curly hair(not all have) is called "Koremekum".The origin of many races of people were the nomads who keep on migrating to search for peaceful places.


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## Destruida

Gypsies aren't all nomads and not all nomadic people are gypsies. Irish Travellers, for instance, are of completely different (Irish) origin and have none of the Romany culture or language, although they've copied the wagons a bit and have coloured horses.

The reason AgnésE and I referred to _gens du voyage_ and I mentioned _nomades _is that we were talking about France and in France there have been and still are a lot of gens du voyage and the majority of Romany people in France are still travellers, even the ones who'veearnedenoiugh money to buy their own plot, build a small, legal house and then live in caravans on the plot and travel part-time. This is simply because France was ideal for horse-drawn travellers (or those who couldn't afford a horse) and they were ideal for France. Fruit-picking, vendange and all the care of vines, vannery, farriery, music, horse-trading, tumbling and fortune-telling could offer work for the different seasons and in different regions. They wern't well-viewed, but they were useful, and there was masses of green space where one could stop and where horses could graze.

In some countries they wer forcibly sedentarised or there was less room or more of the land was enclosed, but it's also a matter of geography - in Spain, they mostly lived in cave-houses. Well, imagine trying to cross Spain with a large family and only a horse - mountains, no water, no food, no habitations, no point!

They only got wagons quite late - before that they just had rough carts and benders, or handcarts, or nothing.


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## apmoy70

Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! said:


> AFAIK, "Cikáni/Gitanos/Ţigani/Zigeuner/Çingene"/etc. ultimately derive from the Greek term Athiganoi, which was originally the name of a Manichaean sect that practiced divination. There are some snippets here and there on the web. "Gypsies" come from "Egypt".
> 
> There's something about the language here, for instance.


That is correct, they were a 9th c. Manichaean sect in Byzantine Phrygia, called «ἀθίγγανοι» /a'θiŋgani/ masc. pl. of «ἀθίγγανος» /a'θiŋganos/ (masc.) lit. _untouchables_ (also known as Melchisedekites); compound, privative prefix «α-» (a-) + Classical verb «θιγγάνω» (tʰĭŋ'gānō), Byz. Greek «θιγγάνω» (θiŋ'gano) and Modern Greek «θίγω» /'θiɣo/ --> _to touch on, touch upon_, in Modern Greek also _enroach, touch a sore spot_; PIE base *dheigh-, _to build, form, knead_ (cf. Skt. देह (deha), _body_; Lat. fingo; Eng. dig; Ger. teig)


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## Destruida

Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! said:


> "Gypsies" come from "Egypt".


There are two differing but similar stories of how this came about. When the Romany tribes migrated in small groups from the East and entered France and England, they were so swarthy, wore such exotic (if shabby) clothes that people thought they might be Egyptians. Some of the heads of families thought this would be useful and certainly better than having no fixed identity, so they started calling themselves "King of Egypt" and similar things. Some or many were performing musicians in the areas from which they originated, so they started to present shows where they stopped and often used Egypt(ians) to announce themselves. The variant is that a troupe performed for a nobleman, who was delighted and dubbed their leader _King of Little Egypt._


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## Destruida

Fernando said:


> They claim they can understand with Hungarian and Middle Europe gypsies in "romaní", but, as is a spoken language, with no written form until a few years ago I am unsure of this.


I don't really speak it, but when I was accustomed to hearing it in France and spent a couple of nights in the barrio of Guadix where Gitanos live in cave-houses, I could understand the gist of what they said and some words. Of course deaf-mutism is quite common, so sign language is also known by the majority and they have their own signs that are different from other signed languages.


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## AutumnOwl

Teal said:


> Interesting.. tigani sounds very much alike the Swedish word for beggar, a "tiggare", and the verb for begging (for money etc.) is "tigga". Revelation!


The Swedish word tigga/tiggare have nothing to do with the word tigani for gypsy. Tigga is an old Scandinavian word meaning _få, utbedja sig_ (get, ask for), similar to the old High German word _diggen_. Not a relevation but very much a false friend.


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## sesperxes

Fernando said:


> Jesus maria, ¿cómo se supone que debemos pronunciar las "th", "j", "ph"?
> 
> How are "th", "j", "ph" pronounced?
> 
> Los términos que ha pasado al castellano desde el calé (o por lo menos que los payos les atribuimos), como gachí, churumbel, payo,.. ¿son específicamente ibéricos o "romaníes"?
> 
> The words "gachí, churumbel, payo...", are romani (international 'gypsy") or Iberian?





Todas , no lo sé, pero las más socorridas en España, las utilizan también los gitanos de Hungría (los gitanos gitano-parlantes, los gitanos húngaro-parlantes y los húngaros cuando quieren usarlas, que no suelen mucho, por neuras suyas con la raza), y supongo que todos en general.

Así tienes: chaval - csavó (pronunciado "chávo")
               churumbel - csurundel (pronucniado "churundel"- = pellizco, poquita cosa)
                chorizar (robar) - csorel (..."churel")
                chorizo (ladrón)- csor (... "chor")
                 camelar (quererer, desear) - kamel
                 caló, calé (negro=gitano) - kalo (negro) 
                chingar (joder) - csingar (..." chingar"= hacer ruido, resoplar...)

Y más.
 Pero como ocurre en español, muchas son adaptaciones de palabras locales o rumanas o eslavas que se parecen a alguna en romaní (como lo del "chorizo" en español, que del verbo "chorar" generan el sustantivo "ladrón" como "chorizo", que no tiene nada que ver con el embutido). Y, además, antes y después de los regímenes socialistas, los gitanos del este de Europa eran/son realmente nómadas, y van adaptando palabras de las lenguas locales, dese Rusia a Chequia y de Polonia a Turquía. Los sedenterizados, o hablan las lenguas locales o hablan romaní más local, pero los que viajan (vamos, los que van expulsando los distintos países), esos acumulan vocabulario de todas partes.


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