# Nominalization



## 涼宮

Hello everybody 

This is a new doubt about the -ing form, which conveniently in English can be utilized for many things that other languages would split up. This time it is concerning to nominalization (treating a verb as a noun) if I am not mistaken about the name . In English we can start a sentence with a verb in the -ing form -usually as a subject- to express more complex ideas.

In other thread I saw that the -ąc is used for the present participle, but what about starting a sentence? Is the -ąc form used for that too?Or does Polish use the infinitive or another way?

For instance:

*1) Knowing* the theory doesn't mean you can get an A in the  practice. (Saber la teoría no significa que obtengas una A en la práctica)

2) Doing that does not tell you what's wrong, you need to find a better way. (Hacer eso no te dice qué está mal, necesitas encontrar una mejor manera)



The verbs ''knowing/doing'' are acting as a noun, it marks the subject  in this case, if we literally rephrase it, we could say that they mean '' the  fact of knowing/doing'' 

In other languages such as French or Spanish we could use the infinitive, some others require a noun and not a conjugation of the verb. (French does  that too)


Dziękuję z góry


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## majlo

What you call nominalization I know under the name "gerundium". It's not the same as the present participle.

Now, in Polish you can start a sentence using both the present participle and gerund. For instance:

_Siedzenie przy komputerze w złej pozycji źle wpływa na kręgosłup. (Sitting in front of the computer in the wring position badly influences the spine) - GERUND
Siedząc przy komputerze, poczułam się źle i zemdlałam. (Sitting in front of the computer, I felt bad and fainted) - THE PRESENT PARTICIPLE


_Mind you, not every word in gerundium can be used (for example "knowing" - wiedzenie sounds clumsy and it might even be incorrect) because there's a noun we can use instead (for instance "knowledge" - "wiedza").


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## 涼宮

majlo said:


> _Siedzenie przy komputerze w złej pozycji źle wpływa na kręgosłup. (Sitting in front of the computer in the wring position badly *influences* the spine) - GERUND
> Siedząc przy komputerze, poczułam się źle i zemdlałam. (*Sitting in front of the computer, I felt bad and fainted*) - THE PRESENT PARTICIPLE
> _



Thank you! But the sense of the second sentence is different from the first one. In the first one you state an entire clause as the subject then you add the complement, in the second one doesn't sound like that. So the -ąc form can be used with the sense of the first one? And I think the name also could be verbal noun, couldn't be?

As regard to ''knowing'', you say the proper noun would be better, does it apply for both forms? -nie (gerundium) -ąc (present participle)? I mean, nor -ąc nor -nie would be correct for ''knowing''?

Thanks again.


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## Szkot

The forms are not interchangeable. The sentence constructions are different._

Siedzenie przy komputerze w złej pozycji źle wpływa na kręgosłup._   In this sentence _siedzenie _means 'the act of sitting'  and is the subject of the main verb wpływa of a simple sentence.

_Siedząc przy komputerze, poczułam się źle i zemdlałam.  _In this sentence_ siedz_ąc means 'while I was sitting' and is a part of a subordinate clause in a compound sentence.


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## majlo

Szkot's got it right!


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## 涼宮

Dziękuję wam wszystkim  Myślę, że zaczynam Polskiego rozumieć lepszy, chociaż jest trochę skomplikowany z powodu tych wszystkich rzeczy


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## kknd

涼宮 said:


> Dziękuję wam wszystkim  Myślę, że zaczynam lepiej rozumieć [język] polski, chociaż [nadal/dalej] wydaje [mi] się [on] trochę skomplikowany z powodu tych wszystkich rzeczy


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## 涼宮

Thank you! But why lepiej? Isn't it for feminine and język masculine? And does rozumieć not use the accusative? And I thought that I could simply say ''it's somewhat complicated'' without adding more things like nada/dalej wydaje mi się on , that is confusing.


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## majlo

The thing is you need an adverb (lepiej), and  you used an adjective in the comparative (lepszy).  

After "understand" you need nominative in your sentence. Therefore it should be "Rozumiem polski"*, not "Rozumiem polskiego".

I don't understand why you should add "nadal" or "dalej" either.

* Adjectives in Polish are not capitalized.


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## jazyk

Majlo means accusative, not nominative. Polskiego is genitive masculine/neuter or accusative animate masculine.


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## majlo

Oh yes, he does. He's never been too good with these bloody Polish cases.  But he promises to catch up.


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## 涼宮

Thank you! I suspected it should be an adverb, but I did not know that lepiej is the adverb of better since adverbs are supposed to end by -o or -e, and -ej is for the comparative  I have to get used to that, Polish uses more adverbs when English doesn't ''betterly''


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## majlo

I tried to find an adverb in the comparative which doesn't end in -ej, but I couldn't. I believe most of them (if not all) take this ending.


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## kknd

you forgot to add _adjectival_ to 'adverb'… (please notice that _tam_, _wczoraj_, _smutno_, _czasem_, _dokąd_, _owszem_ are also adverbs ).


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## majlo

That's true. We mean only adjectival adverbs here, which sort of goes without saying anyway because other kinds are not subject to comparing.


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## kknd

i wouldn't be so sure… :> check for example composite nominal adverb _z tyłu_—i've run into _bardziej z tyłu_ form few times; sometimes you can also hear phrase like _bardziej tu (niż tam)_ which is built on pronominal adverb _tu_ (and/or _tam_).


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## majlo

Well, I find it a tad far-fetched; especially the second one (and the superlative is _najbardziej tu*_​?). It's not standard comparison and I'm not even sure whether it's correct.


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## kknd

hmm… i guess that would be about right:
_– gdzie cię boli?
– najbardziej tu…_
i hope i'm not far-fetching much here at the moment!


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## majlo

I think you are. The answer is not relevant to the question (It's like: - "Where have you been?" - "I haven't eaten chocolate"); and seriously, I doubt that it's comparing. 

If somebody asks where it hurts me, I point with my finger and say, 'Here'. I also answer 'Here' if somebody asks me, 'Where does it hurt you the most?'.


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