# Bosnian (BCS): Židov or Jevrej?



## yael*

MOD EDIT: Moved from HERE. Please *do* open a dedicated thread for each new question.

Thank you! I was interested specifically in Bosnian.

And a quick one (it's not worth opening a dedicated topic) - again in Bosnian: is it correct to say Židov or Jevrej? Or both? (they are actually both correct in Serbian, but Židov sounds a bit depreciative and I don't think it can be used in a formal speech).

Thanks again.


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## DenisBiH

yael* said:


> Thank you! I was interested specifically in Bosnian.
> 
> And a quick one (it's not worth opening a dedicated topic) - again in Bosnian: is it correct to say Židov or Jevrej? Or both? (they are actually both correct in Serbian, but Židov sounds a bit depreciative and I don't think it can be used in a formal speech).
> 
> Thanks again.





I just checked the dictionaries, both _Jevrej_ and _Židov_ (_jevrej_ and _židov_ when used in the religious sense) are correct. I think _Jevrej _is significantly more frequently used, at least here in Sarajevo. I don't know of any disparaging connotation of _Židov_, though.

There is also _Hebrej_, but that denotes the Biblical Hebrew people, not the modern one.


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## yael*

DenisBiH said:


> I don't know of any disparaging connotation of _Židov_, though.


Check here (page 44).


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## DenisBiH

yael* said:


> Check here (page 44).




Sounds nonsensical to me, to be quite honest; inventing a solution to a non-existing problem.


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## yael*

Triglav, I apologise, I am new here and wasn't sure you have already discussed this matter in the past.
Denis, I don't know if it is non-existing problem, I assure you that I would never use the word _Židov _and all the derivations.  There is a difference in the connotation and it's the same as in the example given in the paragraph that follows, Šiptar vs. Albanac.  I don't know the reason and the origin of this distinction... maybe it comes from the cinema and TV, namely from the WWII movies, because the term _Židov _was usually used by the Ustaša, because it's Croation.  In Serbian language, I think, the only term used in the past was Jevrej, hence maybe that it is a very simple verbal association.
Here they say that _čifut_ is disparaging and apparenly _Židov _is not, it's just an imported word from the Croatian.  

As for other example - Cigani vs. Roma, I think that the question is a bit more complicated, but I don't want to go OT again...


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## DenisBiH

yael* said:


> Triglav, I apologise, I am new here and wasn't sure you have already discussed this matter in the past.
> Denis, I don't know if it is non-existing problem, I assure you that I would never use the word _Židov _and all the derivations.  There is a difference in the connotation and it's the same as in the example given in the paragraph that follows, Šiptar vs. Albanac.  I don't know the reason and the origin of this distinction... maybe it comes from the cinema and TV, namely from the WWII movies, because the term _Židov _was usually used by the Ustaša, because it's Croation.  In Serbian language, I think, the only term used in the past was Jevrej, hence maybe that it is a very simple verbal association.
> Here they say that _čifut_ is disparaging and apparenly _Židov _is not, it's just an imported word from the Croatian.
> 
> As for other example - Cigani vs. Roma, I think that the question is a bit more complicated, but I don't want to go OT again...



Yes, but everyone in the streets if asked would know that Šiptar and Čifut, and yes, Ciganin, are indeed disparaging, without Jasmina and Sandra needing to tell them. Not so for Židov, at least IMHO. It seems to me that authors of that work are for some reason either importing the disparaging connotation that exists in Serbian or simply inventing things for the purpose of being able to prescribe PC terms.


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## yael*

Sorry, I cannot agree with you, I am pretty sure that everyone on the streets of Belgrade or anywhere across Serbia would feel what I feel when I hear the word _Židov _andthat is that it shouldn't be used.  If you check on Serbian Wikipedia, you will notice that they don't quote that word in the brackets and if you try to filter using the key word _Židov _you will be simply redirected to _Jevreji. 

_On the other hand, I am not convinced that Cigani is always disparaging (and, of course) I am not referring to the Red Star fans. Rom and Romi is limited, Roma people are more integrated in our culture and society; Rom and romski sounds almost ridiculous in certain contexts and is considered even pretentious.  I don't know if you can really consider, for example, Cigančići as strictly disparaging and I don't how would you say that correctly in one word.


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## DenisBiH

> Sorry, I cannot agree with you, I am pretty sure that everyone on the streets of Belgrade or anywhere across Serbia would feel what I feel when I hear the word _Židov _andthat is that it shouldn't be used.  If you check on Serbian Wikipedia, you will notice that they don't quote that word in the brackets and if you try to filter using the key word _Židov _you will be simply redirected to _Jevreji. _



I wasn't calling into question what you said about Serbia, but what they say in that book about the connotation among Bosnian speakers in B-H. I don't know of anyone using Židov disparagingly in Sarajevo. Yes, there is disparaging talk about Jews, but any term qualifies for that, not just Čifut, Ješa, Jehudija but also normal terms such as Jevrej or Židov. But if another Bosnian speaker reading this thinks differently, they can correct me of course.




> On the other hand, I am not convinced that Cigani is always disparaging  (and, of course) I am not referring to the Red Star fans. Rom and Romi  is limited, Roma people are more integrated in our culture and society;  Rom and romski sounds almost ridiculous in certain contexts and is  considered even pretentious.  I don't know if you can really consider,  for example, Cigančići as strictly disparaging and I don't how would you  say that correctly in one word.



Well, there are cases of other such terms being used not strictly disparagingly. My mother uses Šiptar when referring to Albanians that run some of local bakeries in my neighborhood. She might say "Kupila sam X kod Šiptara" without any obvious hint of disparaging intention.

And Đole Balašević used čivut in one of his songs ("Čivutski vrt"), though he may have been trying to portray certain feelings about the Jews among more traditional people.


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## yael*

DenisBiH said:


> Well, there are cases of other such terms being used not strictly disparagingly. My mother uses Šiptar when referring to Albanians that run some of local bakeries in my neighborhood. She might say "Kupila sam X kod Šiptara" without any obvious hint of disparaging intention.


Chances are that your mum's "Šiptar" is actually Goranac!  



> And Đole Balašević used čivut in one of his songs ("Čivutski vrt"), though he may have been trying to portray certain feelings about the Jews among more traditional people.



I don't think that Čivut is depreciative; it is archaic, almost forgotten (Balašević loves those words), most people don't even know who the Čivut, so it cannot be used to offend or belittle, simply because it wouldn't be really effective.


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## DenisBiH

> Chances are that your mum's "Šiptar" is actually Goranac!




I know, I've read it also in some article/book that many of these "pastry-people" are actually Goranci or Torbeši.  But then, we do have Albanians here as well.


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