# German Accent & Pronunciation



## sn3

I'm working on learning German, but I'm having problems with my pronunciation.  I'm in the US and trying to pronounce some of the German words is difficult.  I have no problems with the "ch" sound in words such as kochen (I can read Hebrew, so I know how to pronounce "ch" words), but saying words like hörer (sounds like horror when I say it) and neugierig gives me problems.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to improve my pronunciation?


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## cyanista

There are some comprehensive guides to German pronunciation online.

Click 1
Click 2


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## Whodunit

sn3 said:
			
		

> I'm working on learning German, but I'm having problems with my pronunciation. I'm in the US and trying to pronounce some of the German words is difficult. I have no problems with the "ch" sound in words such as kochen (I can read Hebrew, so I know how to pronounce "ch" words), but saying words like hörer (sounds like horror when I say it) and neugierig gives me problems. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to improve my pronunciation?


 
Well, "Hörer" is not easy to describe in English, but you could say it like "her rare" (stress on first syllable). And "neugierig" could be pronounced like "noy gee - rig", where both "g"s are pronounced like in "*g*a*g*".


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## sn3

Thanks!  The first one was great.  How do I know (with a word such as neugierig) how to pronounce it if I don't know the phonetic letters?  Does that question make sense?


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## sn3

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Well, "Hörer" is not easy to describe in English, but you could say it like "her rare" (stress on first syllable). And "neugierig" could be pronounced like "noy gee - rig", where both "g"s are pronounced like in "*g*a*g*".



How do you pronounce a "rig" ending?  I've heard it sound like "rig" and "ish."  For example, is zwanzig "zwan-zisch" or "zwan-zig" ?

For Hörer, the ö does not make the "ooh" sound (as being kicked in the stomach)?  I thought that a ö is pronounced like "ooh".


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## Whodunit

sn3 said:
			
		

> Thanks! The first one was great. How do I know (with a word such as neugierig) how to pronounce it if I don't know the phonetic letters? Does that question make sense?


 
Not much, but I can see what you mean. 

"neugierig" is indeed pronounced with a final "sh" sound (actually it's another one, but we can't describe it with any English letter combination). But here are some guidelines on how you can "guess" the pronunciation:

"*eu*" is usually pronounced like English "*oy*"/"*oi*" as in n*oi*se.
"*g*" is always pronounced like the English "*g*" as in "*g*a*g*", there's no other "*g*" sound as in "*gi*n" in original German words.
The ending "*-ig*" is almost pronounced like "*ish*", although it's some other sound I can't describe. It sounds like a whispered "*y*" (as in *y*es) or the sound between "*h*" and "*u*" in "*hu*ge".


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## Sepia

sn3 said:
			
		

> How do you pronounce a "rig" ending? I've heard it sound like "rig" and "ish." For example, is zwanzig "zwan-zisch" or "zwan-zig" ?
> 
> For Hörer, the ö does not make the "ooh" sound (as being kicked in the stomach)? I thought that a ö is pronounced like "ooh".


 

Where I live (Hamburg/Schleswig Holstein) it is neither "zwan-zisch" nor "zwan-zig" rahter than "zwan-zich".

You'd also hear people say "Tach" instead of "Tag" (=day) and such. Pronounciation really differs a lot when you compare the different regions. But as long as we only compare the variations of High German it is really not quite as bad as in certain much smaller countries in Europe.


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## Whodunit

Sepia said:
			
		

> Where I live (Hamburg/Schleswig Holstein) it is neither "zwan-zisch" nor "zwan-zig" rahter than "zwan-zich".


 
I have to be hard on myself: The standard pronunciation of words that end in "-ig" is [iç] indeed.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:
			
		

> I have to be hard on myself: The standard pronunciation of words that end in "-ig" is [iç] indeed.


However, every pronunciation guide I have read says that the pronunciation varies from [iç] to [ig]. I always assumed that the second [ig] is simply less common or not recommened for those who are attempting to pronounc German with a standard pronunciation.

The narrators in all the books I have listened to have always used [iç], I believe, but characters within the books vary, since they are suggestion different regional accents, I assume!

Gaer


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## WERWOLF

In Österreich und Bayern wird die Endung -ig immer als [ig] ausgesprochen. Im Norden [iç]. Beides ist richtig, richtiger jedoch ist meiner Ansicht nach [iç].

Nebenbei Tag wird im Norden Deutschlands: [tax] und gesagt [gɘsɑ:xt] ausgesprochen

Hörer hø:ʀɐ
Führer fy:ʀɐ 
Schüler ʃy:lɐ
Fahrer fa:ʀɐ 

Basser kann ich es nicht beschreiben


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## Gabriele

Hi,

regarding your "hörer"-problem  - maybe http://www.dw-world.de/dw/content/0,2144,215437,00.html can help.

regards
Gabriele


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## sn3

Gabriele said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> regarding your "hörer"-problem  - maybe - can help.
> 
> regards
> Gabriele


I was actually listening to that a few days ago just to see what it was like!  I can't seem to replicate the pronunciation of some of the words.


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## sn3

WERWOLF said:
			
		

> In Österreich und Bayern wird die Endung -ig immer als [ig] ausgesprochen. Im Norden [iç]. Beides ist richtig, richtiger jedoch ist meiner Ansicht nach [iç].
> 
> Nebenbei Tag wird im Norden Deutschlands: [tax] und gesagt [gɘsɑ:xt] ausgesprochen
> 
> Hörer hø:ʀɐ
> Führer fy:ʀɐ
> Schüler ʃy:lɐ
> Fahrer fa:ʀɐ
> 
> Basser kann ich es nicht beschreiben



Das ist sehr Interessant!   Ich glaube, dass es wichtig nicht ist? (did I say that correctly?)


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## WERWOLF

sn3 said:
			
		

> Das ist sehr Interessant!   Ich glaube, dass es wichtig nicht wichtig  ist.



Oder: Ich glaube, daß es unwichtig ist.

Die Kombination dieser zwei Aussagen verstehe ich nicht, weil sie sich gegenseitig widersprechen.


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## sn3

It does not matter if I use the ig or iç ending?


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## gaer

sn3 said:
			
		

> It does not matter if I use the ig or iç ending?


I can tell you this much, from experience. If you can be understood, it's not a problem. If people can't understand you, then it is a problem.

I don't think how you pronounce the endings of words with these sounds is going to cause a problem. But I'll wait for our natives to agree or disagree with this. 

Gaer


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## Paskovich

Well I would immediately punch you in the face if you said the wrong ending! 

Anyway gaer is right. As long as one can understand you everything´s ok.

Taking the example of "zwanzig" I think either ending is ok.


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## Sepia

As they are well understood all over the countries with German as primary language - even in their extreme northern variations - I don't see any problem there; neither do I see any reason to change the way I speak.


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## WERWOLF

sn3 said:
			
		

> It does not matter if I use the ig or iç ending?


Yes you are right, it does not matter. I recomand you this pronuntiation is for you easier.

Du hast recht, es ist vollkommen egal, ich empfehle dir die Aussprache, die für dich einfacher ist und die dir keine oder weniger Probleme bereitet. Ich nehma an, daß du [ig] wählen wirst.


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## Kajjo

sn3 said:
			
		

> It does not matter if I use the ig or iç ending?



That depends on your personal ambitions. If you need to pass examinations or plan to teach others, you should care for the proper standard pronunciation. If you just want to be understood and to be able to ask for the next cinema, it does not matter that much.

My personal experience as foreigner in England is, that strong English accents (i.e. Scottish) are easily understood by all English-speaking persons. However, if Germans use quite similar deviations in pronunciation, they are not understood equally well, because all the faults add up to give something less comprehensible.

What I mean is: Of course a German understands other Germans who deviate from standard German pronunciation. But if a foreigner takes the same freedom, his native accent and his German mis-pronunciation might add up to an almost incomprehensible accent.

I always recommend to learn and use standard pronunciation.

Kajjo


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## gaer

Kajjo said:
			
		

> That depends on your personal ambitions. If you need to pass examinations or plan to teach others, you should care for the proper standard pronunciation. If you just want to be understood and to be able to ask for the next cinema, it does not matter that much.


Yes.


> My personal experience as foreigner in England is, that strong English accents (i.e. Scottish) are easily understood by all English-speaking persons.


They can be a problem too! My father, born in England, could not understand Dolly Parton. I could understand her with no problem. He said, "I can't understand a word she is saying."


> However, if Germans use quite similar deviations in pronunciation, they are not understood equally well, because all the faults add up to give something less comprehensible.


This is exactly why I am unable to understand German when spoken unless it is very standard, Kajjo. I learned from recordings, some very good. People who "read" are taught to speak very clear. Narrators speak more clearly than almost anyone you will here in Germany.

The same is true of those who narrate books in English. For the same reason, their way of speaking is especially clear.


> What I mean is: Of course a German understands other Germans who deviate from standard German pronunciation. But if a foreigner takes the same freedom, his native accent and his German mis-pronunciation might add up to an almost incomprehensible accent.


And it will "close doors".


> I always recommend to learn and use standard pronunciation.


I do too. I did not mean to suggest otherwise. However, I would always listen carefully to the advice of a native. I was told long ago that there places in which I am more easily understood if I roll an "r" than try to produce it from my throat. This has nothing to do with what I hear or prefer. It has something to do with the muscles of an adult not wanting to form sounds. The word "errinere" is impossible for me to say unless I roll the first "r". Otherwise I choke, and I'm not making a joke!

Gaer

Kajjo[/quote]


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## Kajjo

Hi Gaer,
yes, I agree with you point of view. And of course, there are limits as to what a normal person can achieve in a foreign language, particularly in pronunciation. But there are things than can be learned and others that can't.

If you can speak "ich" you can pronounce "König" with the same sound. It is only about knowing and doing.

If someone can not pronounce the both German "ch" consonants, than it might be better to say "König" with "ig" rather than tormenting yourself.

But it is stupid, from my point of view, to decide not to pronounce "König" properly, because someone teaches you it doesn't matter. And that was my point. Try as hard as you can -- but not harder.

I know that "ch", long-"e" and hard "z" are the most difficult German sounds for native English speakers. Okay, so the more other sounds are correct, the better!

Kajjo


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## gaer

Kajjo said:
			
		

> Hi Gaer,
> yes, I agree with you point of view. And of course, there are limits as to what a normal person can achieve in a foreign language, particularly in pronunciation. But there are things than can be learned and others that can't.


 Very true!


> If you can speak "ich" you can pronounce "König" with the same sound. It is only about knowing and doing.


 Actually, I had made a similar point, but my system ate my reply. I mentioned "ewig", "Ewigkeit". The latter has always sounded like "Ewichkeit" to me. The "ch" ending is not difficult for me to make, so I never had a problem with it. My problem is that I fear I OVER-pronounce the final "g". When I hear such words as "König" spoken, the ending seems very subtle.


> If someone can not pronounce the both German "ch" consonants, than it might be better to say "König" with "ig" rather than tormenting yourself.
> 
> But it is stupid, from my point of view, to decide not to pronounce "König" properly, because someone teaches you it doesn't matter. And that was my point. Try as hard as you can -- but not harder.


 Again, I could not agree more!


> I know that "ch", long-"e" and hard "z" are the most difficult German sounds for native English speakers. Okay, so the more other sounds are correct, the better!


 Actually, the "r" is the greatest problem for me, for exactly the reasons I just gave. If there is only one, no problem. If there are many in a row, I begin to sound as if I have a serious stutter. You might compare it to a whole string of words, in English, all starting with "th". 

_Diskussion dazu hier_

Gaer


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## Sarahx

Could anyone help me with phonetics on how to say, 

_"The German Army will win this battle by an envelopment with the right wing, and let the last man brush the Channel with his sleeve."

"World power or downfall. Liège twelve days after mobilisation M.Day, Brusells M.19, French frontier M.22 and we will enter Paris at 11:30 on the morning of M.39. I send all the best brains in the War College into the Railway Section."_

_"They won't be ready till 1916."_

Don't ask... its for my drama play. Could anyone please help me?


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## Kuestenwache

So you want this to sound like a WWI German military officer or someone like that is saying it?


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## Sarahx

Yeah, I'm kind of like, an assistant to the Kaiser... so I'm official, but not as big as he is, y'know?


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## Kuestenwache

That would be a "Generalsstabsoffizier", I give it a shot. Try:
"De Tshearmen Armie vill vin dis bettle by en enveloppment wiz de rite ving, ent let de laast menn brush de Tshennel wit his sliev"

"Vorld pouah or dounvall. Li-esh tvelf days afta mobiliezeyshen M.Day, Bruessl M.19, Frensh fronteer M.22 ent ve vill enta Parees et eeleven fertea on de morning off M.39. I cent oll de best brreyns in de Waar Colletsh into de rreylwey sectshn"

"Dey vount bee reddy till nineteenhunndrett sixteen"

As you have seen, I have replaced "th" by "d" or "t" most the time, just "with" became "wiz" and "thirty" became "fertea", this is maybe the most natural way a German speaker would pronounce these words if he tried for the first time. Still many persons I know with rather humble english abilities tend to settle for one of these options and use that one alle the time, at which "z" is the most common one I think (that would be "ze" for "the" and "zertea" for "thirty"). 
I guess you have tried to develop a German accent als well so you will now that all "a"s have to sound pretty much like the first "a" in "*a*fter". If it is really important I have used two "a"s to underline that. Some things are really hard to write phonetically in English, like "German" which would really have to be pronounced "Tshörmen". Generally just try to pronounce everything as "dry" as possible especially the "r"s. If I used two "r"s that means it has to be really dry the German "r" is rolled at the very back of the mouth. Just pronounce the English "r" and then try to roll your tongue in that position.


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## puddycat

Sarahx said:


> _"The German Army will win this battle by an envelopment with the right wing, and let the last man brush the Channel with his sleeve."
> 
> "World power or downfall. Liège twelve days after mobilisation M.Day, Brusells M.19, French frontier M.22 and we will enter Paris at 11:30 on the morning of M.39. I send all the best brains in the War College into the Railway Section."
> 
> 
> _



Depends on which English you speak natively as to how some of the vowels could be spellt to suit your interpretation of them. 

I'll have a go all the same and see if you all think it would make anyone believe you were a *real* German war officer 

Th (like the) -> z
The (like thing) -> s
w -> v
v -> f
g (like gin) -> a soft tsh / ch
r -> german rolled r
word final t and d kind of fuse together to half of each
word final k and ng (like thing) kind of fuse together to half of each or the g in ng is not silent as it is in English. If that makes sense.

Vowels become very pure (Note that this 'description' is based on standard british / queen's English: ah (like car), ee (like we) oo (like you), eh (like head), and o (like hot). (If we based it on my dialect that would just confuse everyone! )

OK here goes:
_
Ze tshermun ahmi vill vin zees bettle bye en enfelopment vis ze rright ving, und let ze last menn brush ze tshennel vis hees sleeve.

Vorlt powah or downfahll. Liège tvelf days aftah mobilizashion M.Day, Brussells M.nineteen, Frensh frontier M tventee too und vee vil entah Parris et elefun sirtee on ze mornink off M sirtee nein. I send all ze best brayns in ze vohr colletsh in to ze rayl vey sekshun._


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## Sarahx

Thankyou so much guys! Thats been a great help, I'll just keep saying it to get used to it.


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## berndf

puddycat said:


> _Ze tshermun ahmi vill vin zee*i*s bettle bye en enfelopment vis ze rright ving, und let ze last menn brush ze tshennel vis hee*i*s sleeve._
> 
> _Vorlt powah or downfa*o*hll. Liège tvelf days aftah mobilizashion M.Day, Brussells M.nineteen, Frensh frontier M tventee too und vee vil entah Parris et elefun sirtee on ze mornink*g* off M sirtee nein. I send all ze best brayns in ze vohr colletsh in to ze rayl vey sek(*t)*shun._


 
I would do the above modifications for the following reasons:
1. Long and short vowels are well distinguished in German. I can't see how _zis_ could become _zees_ and _his_ could become _hees_ (The French would do that).
2. The long open _a like_ in _fall_ is perceived by a German ear more like an _o_ than like an _a_. And he will probably pronounce it this way.
3. _ng_ is a single phoneme and not subject to the usual "Auslautverhärtung" which normally causes a final _g_ to be pronounced _k_.


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## Kuestenwache

And if you want to give it a special touch, you can really use the German names and pronounciations of the Cities like: 
"Brussells"->"Brussl" or correctly "Br*ü*ssll" (I know how hard it must be to see the difference between ü and u if you are a native english speaker, it pronounced very shortly)
"Liége" would be pronounced "Lee-etch" but this City is called "L*ü*ttich" in German (again use u instead of ü if you want, both vowels are pronounced very shortly, the "ch" at the end is pronounced like in "Ich")
"Paris" is pronounced "Pahreez" in German. It's your choise


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## Sarahx

Thankyou! You're all stars. x


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