# Is learning a language useless if most of its native speakers know English now?



## Scrooge

For example, I hear that the Dutch and the Swedish are particularly good English learners. Would it be useless to learn one of those languages because of that?


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## caballoschica

I don't  think so.  What if there was some mis-communication OR you went there and they only spoke in that language for a meeting?  It would be handy to know what they were saying, wouldn't it?  I'm sure they speak it within themselves and if you were visiting there, I'm sure it would make life easier, at the very least, for you to understand what things say, even if everyone there spoke English to you.  Plus, some may not know English so well.  I highly doubt they have English sub-titles on everything.  I doubt their broadcasts are in English.  Plus, it helps you learn other related languages.


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## Silver Thoughts

Nothing is useless in itself, I think it depends on why you want to learn the language. If you want to learn it for business reasons, then probably it is useless, because as you said everyone speaks english anyway, especially in the business world. And I've heard some of them speak in English and they're amazingly good!
But maybe you could learn the language because you are interested in it and you think it sounds beautiful. Maybe there is a writer from that country and you want to read their books in the original language. Or maybe you know someone who speaks that language and you could learn it so that you can have secret conversations that no one else understands!


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## KateNicole

As long as the native language is alive and well in its native country, I don't think it would be useless, even if the entire population speaks English.  In Sweden, it is my understanding that many, many natives speak English fluently, but still speak 100% Swedish at home (correct me if I'm wrong.)  I'm assuming that Swedes talk to each other in Swedish, even if they know English . . . which means that learning the language will always be of use to you.  They will appreciate the effort you make to learn their language.  In Cancun for example, almost all the hotel staff speaks English very well, but the American tourist who makes the effort to communicate in Spanish will always get better service than the cocky American that says "Hey amigo, is my room ready?"!  People appreciate your interest in their langauge more than you might ever realize!

. . . Except here in the USA.  Too many of us just expect everyone (whether it be a tourist, an immigrant, or someone who never even enters our country) to learn English magically and we are unforgiving of accents 
I always try soooooo hard to be patient with English language learners and make them feel welcomed, because people have always done the same to me when I've traveled to foreign countries.


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## caballoschica

I completely agree.   There are so many people who are, literally, afraid that non-English speakers are going to take over the US.  It's sad.  And so many of the people who are like, "If you come to the US, learn English before" are the people that haven't tried to learn a foreign language.  They don't have a right to say that immigrants have to learn another language if they haven't tried it themselves.  

I agree, here in the US, we are very unforgiving of accents.   Even within American dialects.  People bothered me about it when I was younger when I had a 'different accent'.  They were always asking me to repeat myself and constantly asking where I was from.  I took many years of speech class for it, but I've really only modified my accent from when I was younger and I let myself speak naturally. Personally, I think accents are what make us unique.  Different accents, for me, are so fun to listen to.  I try and make people feel welcome, too.   I enjoy helping people, anyways.


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## panjabigator

I have the opinion that no language is useless.  But your asking the wrong crowd here...of course we are going to defend languages


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## Lemminkäinen

KateNicole said:


> In Sweden, it is my understanding that many, many natives speak English fluently, but still speak 100% Swedish at home (correct me if I'm wrong.)  I'm assuming that Swedes talk to each other in Swedish, even if they know English . . . which means that learning the language will always be of use to you.



Yes, Swedes do talk to eachother in Swedish  I agree with what's been said, and it depends, of course, on what you're planning to use it for. If you're going to live in Sweden, learning Swedish will help a lot - even though people know English, it would be pretty hard to get around only talking English (not that people wouldn't understand you, just that...well, I would imagine it would be harder to be integrated. As I said, Swedes talk to eachother in Swedish, not English).
And on the other hand...Swedish is such a beautiful language


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## sound shift

No, it is not useless. For one thing, you won't be able to read signs, electricity bills and such like if you are in a country that uses a different language and you make no attempt to learn it.


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## Gittan

Learning a language is never useless ;-)

I fully agree with Lemminkäinen!


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## Etcetera

panjabigator said:


> I have the opinion that no language is useless. But your asking the wrong crowd here...of course we are going to defend languages


Yes, here we go.
I am sure that there's no useless languages. Dutch and Swedish are both interesting languages, well worth learning.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Well, what can I say?   

I'm a language teacher (Spanish and English, so far), and even if there were no practical reasons why to learn another language, I'd still suggest you to do so.

It is somewhat ironic but, I always end up speechless whenever I have the privilege of witnessing _*that*_ magic moment, when a student understands something new, internalizes it and uses to express himself.

It just transcends words...


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## Frank06

Hi,

Three remarks / questions:


Scrooge said:


> For example, I hear that the Dutch and the Swedish are particularly good English learners.


1. And you believe those stories?



> Would it be useless to learn one of those languages because of that?


2. LOL, so anglo-centric a question ;-). 
What about a speaker of Russian, French, Spanish (or whatever language) who doesn't speak English? It might come as a surprise, but there are people on this planet who don't speak English .



> useless


3. What do you mean by 'useless' (and hence by 'useful')? Economic advantages? Being able to order a Big Mac in Stockholm or Amsterdam?

Groetjes,

Frank


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## panjabigator

I think he means "What's the point of learning Swedish when they already know English."  So there would be no economic advantage.  And yes, Big macs would be ordered in English.

In India, a good number of city dwellers are completely fluent in English, and actually use it amongst themselves, along with their local language.  Doesn't make the language obsolete, but it does reduce its necessity.


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## TrentinaNE

> They don't have a right to say that immigrants have to learn another language if they haven't tried it themselves.


"It" being "voluntarily moving to a country where a different language is spoken," of course.

Scrooge, if you are planning to live in The Netherlands or Sweden or wherever, I don't see how it could be "useless" to learn the primary language that is spoken there. On the other hand, if you're planning to study every language on the planet sequentially, you might have a different mode of prioritizing.  

Elisabetta


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## sdr083

I agree with TrentinaNE.  The "usefullness" of the language would depend on what you are planning to use it for.  But learning a language is of course never useless.  For one thing, the more languages you know, the easier it gets to learn new ones.   

This question is not only relevant for English though.  Living in Catalunya as an exchange student I find myself constantly having to explain and justify my choice to study Catalan, since most of the exchange students don't understand why I bother.  They don't consider Catalan a "useful" language because all Catalan-speakers also understand Castellano and the language is not spoken outside the "Paisos Catalans".  
Even if I could get by in Catalunya without speaking Catalan I find it easier to get in touch with people when I understand their language, and I know I would miss out on a lot of things if I did not understand Catalan (even if Catalan is very similar to Castellano).  Not to mention that I find it a tiny bit arrogant to come here and not even make an effort to understand the language that is the mother tongue of the majority of the people who live here...


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## gaer

I don't believe you can fully understand a culture if you don't know the language.

Gaer


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

gaer said:


> I don't believe you can fully understand a culture if you don't know the language.
> 
> Gaer


 
Totally agree!

And, it is so pleasant to read that from an American, being aware of the dreadful reputation some useless people have given you guys collectively.

See, everybody?  Prejudices are good for nothing, but being locked up in a museum.  That's why I hate them so much...


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## Pedro y La Torre

I would say learning Irish would be useless, in fact most people in Dublin probably wouldn't recognize what language you were speaking, but if you went to the west of Ireland they would certainly be amused (in a good way)!


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## lablady

Is it useless to learn a language? Of course not!

In addition to the reasons mentioned above, learning a language is an excellent way to keep your mind sharp. In the healthcare industry,one of the current recommendations to (possibly) help prevent Altzheimer's is to exercise your brain regularly. And one of the suggested "exercises" is to learn a foreign language. It sounds like an enjoyable "mental calisthenic" to me. The native speakers can help you practice.

You can count me as another American who doesn't fit the reputation.


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## john_riemann_soong

Has no one mentioned literature? What about historical etymology? These would be lost. 

People naturally branch off and form their own languages. If you put hearing children among deaf people, they invent their own language spontaneously, with their own grammar.


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## Thomsen

I think one of the most important parts of learning a language is taking an interest in anothers culture.  Would we not treat someone who spoke English even if poorly better than someone who made no attempt at all?  I think people around the world might be more generous with us, but I think the effort is always appreciated.

Well, I have heard that the French don't always appreciate it, but... (Just kidding!)


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## Thomsen

Frank06 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Three remarks / questions:
> 
> 1. And you believe those stories?
> 
> 
> 2. LOL, so anglo-centric a question ;-).
> What about a speaker of Russian, French, Spanish (or whatever language) who doesn't speak English? It might come as a surprise, but there are people on this planet who don't speak English .
> 
> 
> 3. What do you mean by 'useless' (and hence by 'useful')? Economic advantages? Being able to order a Big Mac in Stockholm or Amsterdam?
> 
> Groetjes,
> 
> Frank


 
Everyone I ever had a chance to talk to in the Netherlands spoke _some_ English.  It makes sense because morphologically Dutch is the closest to English.  It's just the pronunciation that throws you for a loop.


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## mytwolangs

caballoschica said:


> Personally, I think accents are what make us unique. Different accents, for me, are so fun to listen to. I try and make people feel welcome, too. I enjoy helping people, anyways.


 
Seems I am not the only one who finds accents interesting. 
It is no different than a person's height, shape, or eye color. Unique...

Well, subject on hand - Many people may know how to real wnd write English well, but lack speaking skills. Much like many folks who learn other languages. I know my French speaking and hearing is WAY behind my reading and writing. 
So the point is, it would be good to learn another language of a country you are fascinated with. Learning another language is more than just a bunch of grammar rules and words, it is about learning part of another culture. And there are no words to describe how nice that is 

Side note - The French people I have known seem to appreciate those of us who want to learn their language. Even My horrible ability.


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## gaer

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Totally agree!
> 
> And, it is so pleasant to read that from an American, being aware of the dreadful reputation some useless people have given you guys collectively.
> 
> See, everybody? Prejudices are good for nothing, but being locked up in a museum. That's why I hate them so much...


We Americans do have a huge problem, and people who speak other languages often don't realize what it is: most well-educated people in other countries are so strong in English that it is intimidating for those of us who are not adventurous as we struggle with their languages. 

Gaer


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## PianoMan

I think it's not overrated because not all the people you will encounter do know English, you never know.  And for us Americans, its an asset to demonstrate that we've taken the time to appreciate their culture enough to speak their language.  Either way, even excluding travel, many economic benefits come from being fluent in other languages (for the business/industrial world German and Japanese are very useful to know).  Either way, I think it's just an interesting study within itself.


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## panjabigator

gaer said:


> We Americans do have a huge problem, and people who speak other languages often don't realize what it is: most well-educated people in other countries are so strong in English that it is intimidating for those of us who are not adventurous as we struggle with their languages.
> 
> Gaer



You hit the nail on the head.  I feel so embarressed...if they can not only just do it, but master it, then we should be able to too!


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## gaer

panjabigator said:


> You hit the nail on the head. I feel so embarressed...if they can not only just do it, but master it, then we should be able to too!


I read German fluently, and I get letters daily from at least one friend in German.

The problem is that all my German friends read anything I write in English with little or no problem. There is no reason for me to write in German.

My friend, who can write English well, knows that he can write much better in German and has no NEED to write in English because I understand everything.

The difference is that when he travels, he runs into people constantly who can't speak a word of German. He is forced to use English.

When I travel, I certainly don't run into people who speak German but who can speak no English. 

Gaer


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

mytwolangs said:


> Seems I am not the only one who finds accents interesting.
> It is no different than a person's height, shape, or eye color. Unique...


 
No, you're definitely not the only one. Add me to that list, too! I believe accents are like a fingerprint from a country/region/city. How could we not find them interesting? 



> Learning another language is more than just a bunch of grammar rules and words, it is about learning part of another culture. And there are no words to describe how nice that is


 
Exactly!



PianoMan said:


> (...) And for us Americans, its an asset to demonstrate that we've taken the time to appreciate their culture enough to speak their language. (...) I think it's just an interesting study within itself.


 
I quite agree with both things. Languages are not only about communicating (which is of course, very important), but they are also about getting to know the "personality" that makes each culture so unique.

It is amazing how clearly one can see the differences and resemblances between two cultures, by learning and understanding their respective languages... 



lablady said:


> In addition to the reasons mentioned above, learning a language is an excellent way to keep your mind sharp. (...)
> You can count me as another American who doesn't fit the reputation.


 
True, to the first one. It makes you feel as young as you were many years ago, back in High School, fighting against marks and grammar rules... Ah, what could make you feel younger than that?  

And about the second, it is a great thing to know. I am sure there are loads of American people who think and act like you! For example, wasn't this forum created by an American person?  How many of its members do you think are from the USA?

And, of course, the opposite is valid too: there are many apathetic people from other countries who just don't care at all...

Cheers,
Vs.


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## Etcetera

lablady said:


> In addition to the reasons mentioned above, learning a language is an excellent way to keep your mind sharp. In the healthcare industry,one of the current recommendations to (possibly) help prevent Altzheimer's is to exercise your brain regularly. And one of the suggested "exercises" is to learn a foreign language.


Yes, it's a very good exercise for your brain. 
And learning a foreign language also teaches you to learn logically and creatively.


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## Lilla My

Norwegians speak also very well english, many university courses there are in english, most of the foreign students who go there don't bother to learn norwegian.
Still, I did experiment that they feel quiet angry and irked that nobody even want to learn their language. And they're really amazed when one does try to speak it.
Moreover, to be able to read Ibsen or Hamsun in the original text is a sufficient reason to learn norwegian


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## Marga H

IMO if you travel or stay abroad in a foreign country, it is always worth learning the language, at least the rudiments of it. People will be more friendly to you and you will more enjoy your stay there. If you don't know a word, your visit is like watching  through a windowpane. The discoverer of Troy and the great linguist Heinrich Schliemann even wrote his diary in the language of the country where he just travelled.


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## Tresley

Learning a foreign language has lots of benefits.

Firstly, it makes you understand your own language better! How many times do you see English native speakers write 'there' when it should be 'their' or 'its' when it should be 'it's'. Learning a foreign language definitely makes you understand the grammar of your own language.

Secondly, when travelling abroad, foreigners are usually very willing to help you and are more friendly when you know even only a few words of their language. It shows that you have made an effort, which they generally appreciate.

Thirdly, when in a foreign country, you can read signs, posters, adverts, directions, instructions on ticket machines etc. It all helps make things easier for you! This obviously depends on your depth of knowledge of the language of course.

Fourthly, if you are conversant enough, you can talk to the natives and ask for recommendations for restaurants, places to visit, how frequent the busses run, whatever! It all helps in the long run!

I speak French, Spanish and German reasonably well, and I am glad that I do! I would not enjoy my stay as much in countries where those languages are spoken had I not bothered to learn those languages. But, just knowing the words for 'hello', 'goodbye', 'please', 'thank you' and most importantly 'do you speak English?' go a long way, if only to produce an acknowledging smile on the face of the person you are talking to.

When I was in Stockholm I always said 'taler ni engelska?' before speaking in English and said 'tack, adjö' at the end of the conversation. By this time they always knew I was from the UK because I always told them. I knew they appreciated my effort to speak just a few words of their language because of the big smile! What's more, I was happy that they were happy that I did that!


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## Etcetera

Marga H said:


> The discoverer of Troy and the great linguist Heinrich Schliemann even wrote his diary in the language of the country where he just travelled.


Interesting. I didn't know it.
But I think Schliemann was very wise in doing so.


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## PianoMan

I like that, and all in all, learning the language is just a form of respect to the nation you're traveling to.  You are a guest in their country and it would be nice to accustom yourself accordingly, for any traveler in any country.  And I've noticed that the best way to know your own language is to study another.  I learned things about English during my Spanish/French/German studies I had no concept of before hand.


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## gaer

As an example of how useful knowing another language can be, I was involved with a small group staying in Berlin for two weeks. We all stayed with different families. One person in the group spoke no German, and lady he stayed with spoke no English. I don't speak German, ever, when I am in a group containing Germans who are comfortable in English, but in this case, it was necessary.

I had interpret both ways, and the fact that I was able to do this was tremendously appreciated. In fact, not only these people but others were shocked that I did not fit the stereotype of the American who expected everyone to know English. 

Gaer


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## PianoMan

Yes! Exactly, probably the ultimate reason for Americans is to break beyond that stereotype of a foreign ignorance and the lack of motivation to do something about it.  I have promised myself to do what I can when traveling to avoid falling under that assumption.


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## DCPaco

Pedro y La Torre said:


> I would say learning Irish would be useless, in fact most people in Dublin probably wouldn't recognize what language you were speaking, but if you went to the west of Ireland they would certainly be amused (in a good way)!


 
I read a play in a course on British Imperialism (Translations by an Irishman named Brian Friel) and any one who thinks its useless, should read this book. I loved it!

He speaks of the renaming by the British officials and the history surrounding a name and how these names were tied to an event or person. The British came and assigned a name according to the phonetic name of the area and if a person knew Irish-Gaelic, it might make more sense than a senseless phonetic transcription.

Besides, we often find that in many languages there are things that are particular to certain cultures because of their histories and to fully understand such concepts it is necessary to know the language and the culture well.

Regards,
Paco


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## Bunni

Scrooge said:


> For example, I hear that the Dutch and the Swedish are particularly good English learners. Would it be useless to learn one of those languages because of that?


There are always benefits from learning another language, even if many speakers of the language already speak your native tongue, so it certainly isn't "useless" per se.


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## Genecks

A lot of things are social constructs. I would consider language to be one of them. Also, I would consider the educational institutions in the world to be social constructs. Matter of fact, I would consider the importance these institutions put on learning a foreign language to be a social construct. One of the languages will eventually dominate. However, people will still need sign language. People will still need different types of language for particular reasons.

Yeah, learning a lot of things can be useless. However, it's fun to talk to someone who does not understand what you are saying. Also, if you've got to skip a country, you can jump into a different one. Language has its uses.

The American cultural imperialism provided by history, Westernization, and colonialization is allowing English to become a more dominant language.

English will only keep dominating if people do not allow schisms of institutions to occur. Various sects of countries, states, and nations want their ways of life set apart from Western ideology.

However, because of this want for individuality, they will want to have a language of their own. It allows people to create individual cohesiveness; it allows persons within a community to become conformists and obey their leader. It's like individuality, but it's not individuality. I call it "group individuality." Also, since the beginning of time, many countries wanted to take over other countries. Thus, they might stick to an individual language to create cohesiveness and groupthink.

I keep thinking about Hebrew and Arabic. These language seem to have large roots in religion. 

Setting aside the sociology and social psychology, English is going to dominate. People say, "English doesn't do the Qu'ran justice." Well, that's probably why people would stick to Arabic: religious reasons.

Either way you look at it, people aren't going to create a global community anytime soon. Therefore, you might as well learn some languages.

Oh, and the point I was trying to make: A lot of stuff is useless to learn; that's why I'm a science major. ^_^

My infamous words of advice: "Hate something? Good. Learn faster!"


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## Pedrovski

Most arguments here are based on the belief that learning a foreign language is always good for you.

That is certainly true, but what if the question were formulated in a slightly different way:

"Would you learn swedish as a foreign language instead of spanish (or english)"?

Well, I don't think anyone would have doubts that learning swedish instead of english or spanish, would be stupid and incredibly irrational.
Of course, I'm assuming that you wouldn't suddenly move to Sweden which, given the number of countries in the world and Sweden's size, is unlikely for the average citizen.

My point is, if you're going to learn a foreign language, don't learn an irrelevant, relatively useless one such as swedish if you have the choice of learning a more useful one such as english or spanish.


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## Lemminkäinen

Pedrovski said:


> My point is, if you're going to learn a foreign language, don't learn an irrelevant, relatively useless one such as swedish if you have the choice of learning a more useful one such as english or spanish.



I see what you're saying, but I think that if I were Swedish, I'd be somewhat offended by having my mother tongue described as "irrelevant" and "relatively useless". 

One of the most important factors with learning a language is, of course, what you're going to use it for, which depends on your situation. 

If you live in, say, Japan, then English can be useful, but I'd think a variant of Chinese would be even more useful than Spanish. 
As another example, I could imagine Swedish being more useful than Spanish in the Baltic countries.


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## AuPhinger

PianoMan said:


> I like that, and all in all, learning the language is just a form of respect to the nation you're traveling to.  You are a guest in their country and it would be nice to accustom yourself accordingly, for any traveler in any country.  And I've noticed that the best way to know your own language is to study another.  I learned things about English during my Spanish/French/German studies I had no concept of before hand.



Of course most of us are "preaching to the choir" here.  I chose PianoMan to quote only because it was short and summarized my feelings.  I was really going to jus say "Of course!"

I feel that learning any bits of a language is a major sign of respect towards a host (country).  It is really the only means for truly understanding another culture.  I have learned a LOT about my English on these forums!!

I study Spanish because I already know a fair amount, and I may give translating a go.  I just might give Swedish a go, because that is my wife's heritage, and we will probably visit there in a few years.  So what if most of them speak very good English?

I don't think much of ANYTHING concrete learned is a waste.


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