# All Slavic languages: Iti/ići (grem, gremo, etc.)



## 123xyz

I have encountered verb forms of the verb for to go such as "gremo", "grem", etc... From what I gather, they are forms of the verb "iti" in Slovenian, which is composed of different roots when fully conjugated. I also found "gremo" in the Croatian song "Padaj silo i nepravdo", although Croatian has a form "idemo". What I was wondering about is why I couldn't find an infinitive form from the same root (something like "gresti"). Does anyone know if an infinitive exists (in any Slavic language) of the "gred-" root?


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## TriglavNationalPark

123xyz said:


> I have encountered verb forms of the verb for to go such as "gremo", "grem", etc... From what I gather, they are forms of the verb "iti" in Slovenian, which is composed of different roots when fully conjugated.



You're correct. An old post by Irbis sums it up well:


> Verb "iti" (to go) is very irregular in Slovenian.
> Infinitive form is "iti".
> Forms for present are: grem, greš, gre, greva, gresta, gresta, gremo, greste and grejo/gredo.
> Forms for imperative are: pojdi, pojdite, pojdimo.
> Forms for participle: šel, šla, šlo, šli, šle.



Of course, this doesn't answer your question -- whether an infinitive form of the root "gred-" exist in any Slavic language. It doesn't in Slovenian, where "iti" is the only infinitive of the forms listed above.


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## Anicetus

123xyz said:


> I also found "gremo" in the Croatian song "Padaj silo i nepravdo", although Croatian has a form "idemo".



Sure, it's "idemo" in Štokavian and standard Croatian, but state borders don't follow dialect borders. 




> What I was wondering about is why I couldn't find an infinitive form from the same root (something like "gresti"). Does anyone know if an infinitive exists (in any Slavic language) of the "gred-" root?



Well, Old Church Slavonic does have the infinitive _gręsti_. For some reason, HJP (Croatian Language Portal) also lists the infinitive although the verb occurs only as the present tense of _iti_ in those Croatian dialects it does, much like in Slovene. I read on the Internet that the infinitive can be found in old Croatian literature, but I didn't manage to -- in several works that are available online (one of them being exactly the one some site claimed to contain the infinitive) there are only present, imperfect and present participle forms of _*gresti_.


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## Sobakus

In Russian *грясти* is a fully conjugated verb meaning "to come" of a very high-flown style. So, usually people don't do that, mostly events like the end of the world or salvation of humanity.

edit: actually, no, it's never used in the past tense.


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## 123xyz

Thank you for the replies

So there was an infinitive that died out (or became much rarer than it used to be as in Russian). 
Curious that it should have a nasal vowel in it although the PIE root doesn't have anything nasal in it.


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## swintok

In Ukrainian the verb гряст*и* seems to be enjoying a bit of a revival.  The media in Ukraine is currently full of the phrase грядуть вибори (the elections are coming).  It is also not infrequently used to talk about reforms (which are always coming but never seem to arrive ).

As in Russian the verb is usually reserved for major events.  But anecdotally it seems that it is starting to be used as an affectation in other contexts to lend gravitas or underline importance.  I even once saw an advertisement with грядуть нові Мерседеси (the new Mercedes are arriving).


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## YKYPEH

It is used in the past tense in Russian (at least in the perfective aspect).

*(на)грянул


*Here's what Vasmer's etymological dictionary says:_

гряду́  грясти́, ст.-слав. грѩдѫ, грѩсти ἔρχομαι πορεύομαι (Cynp., Клоц.),  болг. греда́ "иду", сербохорв. гре́де̑м, грести, словен. grédem.  С обобщением носового инфикса (ср. лат. iungō: iugum) к лит. grìdyju,  grìdyti "идти, путешествовать (пешком)", жем. grìdėti, авест.  aiwigǝrǝðmahi "мы начинаем", др.-инд. gṛdhyati "быстро надвигается на  что-либо" (?), лат. gradior "шагаю", гот. grid ж. вин. п. "шаг,  ступень", ирл. in-greinn, do-greinn "преследует"; см. Траутман, BSW 98;  KZ 42, 369; Бецценбергер, ВВ 16, 243; Педерсен, IF 2, 291; Kelt. Gr. 2,  339; Бернекер 1, 349 и сл._


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## Sobakus

Грясти and грянуть are two different verbs, but yeah, I thought about mentioning this one too, though decided not to.


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## el_tigre

Croatian chakavian speakers say "gremo" not "idemo"

gren
greš 
gre
gremo
 grete
gredu


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## Duya

With the infinitive (supine), presumably _gret_?

I could imagine that _gret_ as infinitive is preserved in (some) Kajkavian and Chakavian dialects. The only confirmation I found online is here, in a column of _Međimurske novine_, written in Kajkavian:



> Tak, napriliko, i ja sebe primem vu miseli kak bi štel gda bi mi žena furt mela 25 let, jerbo bi mi bilo topleše vu posteli i mejepot bi se hodal *gret* vu krčmo k Juliki i Štefici.



Not that I quite understood it...


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## Anicetus

I think _gret_ is the supine of _grejem_, so it means "to heat/warm" -- it certainly makes more sense in this context. HJP gives _*grěti_ as the Proto-Slavic form, so Štokavian _*grě*ja*ti_ is probably an innovation, like _spati_ - _spa*va*ti_.


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## itreius

Yes, that's actually the verb _grijati_ in Kajkavian.

Here's a translation into standard, but I tried to keep the original constructions in tact, so it sounds a bit broken but it should make sense.

_Tako si, naprimjer, i ja primim u misao kako bih htio kada bi mi žena (za)uvijek imala 25 godina, jer bi mi bilo toplije u krevetu i manje puta bih se išao grijati u krčmu kod Julike i Štefice._

As for the irregularity of _ići/iti_, here's the future tense of it in Kajkavian

_pem, peš, pe, pemo, pete, peju_ (ići ću, i'll go, he'll go, etc.)

Frankly, I haven't heard _grem_ in Kajkavian all too often, I think it's usually used only very close to the Slovene border. Other speakers do understand it though, and might use it in jest.


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## Sobakus

itreius said:


> As for the irregularity of _ići/iti_, here's the future tense of it in Kajkavian
> 
> _pem, peš, pe, pemo, pete, peju_ (ići ću, i'll go, he'll go, etc.)



Do you happen to know where these forms come from? I can't think of anything similar in any Slavic language... Well, there are piti and peti, but they have nothing to do with going.


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## Duya

Probably shortenings from _pojdem, pojdeš_...


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## Morana_

No, pa spregajmo tale glagol *iti* bolj na dolgo:

*Sedanjik,* ednina: Present tense, singular:
jaz *grem*
ti *greš* 
on/ona/ono *gre*

Dvojina: Dual:
midva/medve *greva*
vidva/vedve *gresta*
onadva/onedve *gresta*

Množina: Plural:
mi/me *gremo*
vi/ve *greste*
oni/one/ona *gredo/grejo*

*Preteklik,* ednina: Past tense, singular:
jaz sem *šel/šla/šlo*
ti si *šel/šla/šlo*
on/ona/ono je *šel/šla/šlo*

Dvojina: Dual:
midva/medve *sva šla/šli*
vidva/vedve *sta šla/šli*
onadva/onedve *sta šla/šli*

Množina: Plural:
mi/me *smo šli/šle/šla*
vi/ve *ste šli/šle/šla*
oni/one/ona *so šli/šle/šla**

Prihodnjik,* ednina: Future tense, singular:
jaz *bom šel/šla/šlo*
ti *boš šel/šla/šlo*
on/ona/ono *bo šel/šla/šlo*

*Bližnji prihodnjik,* za izražanje namena, ednina: Near future to show intent, singular:
jaz *pojdem*
ti *pojdeš*
on/ona/ono *pojde*

Dvojina: Dual:
midva/medve *pojdeva*
vidva/vedve *pojdeta*
onadva/onedve *pojdeta*

Množina: Plural:
mi/me *pojdemo*
vi/ve *pojdete*
oni/one/ona *pojdejo*

*Velelnik:* Imperative:
*Pojdi!* (2. os. edn.) (2nd person singular)
*Pojdiva!* (1. os. dv.) (1st person dual)
*Pojdita!* (2. os. dv.) (2nd person dual)
*Pojdimo!* (1. os. mn.) (1st person plural)
*Pojdite!* (2. os. mn.) (2nd person plural)


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