# Somebody else's relatives



## Michaelkun

Do all relatives' name vary if they are my relatives or somebody else's relatives?

I mean, for example, it's not the same word to say "my wife" (아내) than for saying "your wife" or "his wife" (부인). Does this happen with all relatives or only with certain words such as"wife", "mother" and "father"?


----------



## pcy0308

Hello MichaelKun,

(Just a side note, even when referring to one's own wife, Koreans employ other terms, such as "집사람", more so than "아내" or "부인". Now, don't get me wrong. Of course, "아내" and "부인" are both very commonly used terms, but I've personally come across the following terms "집사람' or "와이프" (the latter is *not* a native Korean word but a transcription of an English word, "wife".) more frequently than "아내" or "부인".)

To answer your question, indicative words for family and relatives whether it is for one's own family or other's family do not change. That being said, "삼촌" means "uncle" for both your family and someone else's family.

However, if you'd like to be more polite when referring to someone else's family member, it is common to swap the ending of whichever term you are employing. For example, you could say "어머님" instead of "어머니" (though it is perfectly fine to use the word "어머니" itself to refer to another person's mother.). "어머님은 잘 계시니?" Some other examples are "아버님," "큰어머님", and "할아버님". Bear in mind, you cannot do this for all the indicative terms. Normally, the usage is limited to one's direct/immediate famiy members who are considered as seniors (i.e. excluding siblings, cousins). Another way to refer to other people's relatives would be simply adding '-분" at the end of any indicative words. For example, using "삼촌분" instead of "삼촌", "고모분" instead of "고모". Some other examples are "동생분", "숙모분".

Hope this helps!


----------



## Michaelkun

pcy0308 said:


> Hello MichaelKun,
> 
> (Just a side note, even when referring to one's own wife, Koreans employ other terms, such as "집사람", more so than "아내" or "부인". Now, don't get me wrong. Of course, "아내" and "부인" are both very commonly used terms, but I've personally come across the following terms "집사람' or "와이프" (the latter is *not* a native Korean word but a transcription of an English word, "wife".) more frequently than "아내" or "부인".)
> 
> To answer your question, indicative words for family and relatives whether it is for one's own family or other's family do not change. That being said, "삼촌" means "uncle" for both your family and someone else's family.
> 
> However, if you'd like to be more polite when referring to someone else's family member, it is common to swap the ending of whichever term you are employing. For example, you could say "어머님" instead of "어머니" (though it is perfectly fine to use the word "어머니" itself to refer to another person's mother.). "어머님은 잘 계시니?" Some other examples are "아버님," "큰어머님", and "할아버님". Bear in mind, you cannot do this for all the indicative terms. Normally, the usage is limited to one's direct/immediate famiy members who are considered as seniors (i.e. excluding siblings, cousins). Another way to refer to other people's relatives would be simply adding '-분" at the end of any indicative words. For example, using "삼촌분" instead of "삼촌", "고모분" instead of "고모". Some other examples are "동생분", "숙모분".
> 
> Hope this helps!



Thank you very much for your explanation!! It has been really helpful!

Now I just have one doubt. Is there a definite rule to know which family members I can attach "님" to and which family members can have "-분" added, or these endings are only possible with the examples you gave?


----------



## pcy0308

Hello Michaelkun,
Just a heads-up: the scope of this thread is "how to refer to *someone else's family member*", *not my own*. Keeping that in mind, below is the general "rule" regarding the use of "분" and "님" when referring to someone else's family member.

As mentioned above, "님"'s use* is limited to one's immediate/direct famiy members who are considered as seniors*. In other words, *할아버님, 할머님, 어머님, 아버님, 형님 *(*not* your 12 year old older brother but say, this would be how your father would refer to his 50 year old older brother or how you would refer to your friend's 40 year old brother), *누님* would be it. The emphasis here is *the seniority*. It would be unnatural and just outright strange to say, for example, "동생님" to refer to your friend's younger brother or younger sister.
(There are other instances where "님" is used to indicate a person's *title* and *status*, such as "사장님", "부장님", "회장님", "이사님", "고객님", but in this thread, the topic in question is *family members*.)

"분" is *an honorifc term that is irrelevant to one's title or status* in a family/social heirarchy. Thus, it has much wider applicability, and you can use it to be and sound more courteous and respectful when referring to someone else's family member: for instance, "자녀분", "아드님분"," 따님분", "동생분", "삼촌분", "고모분", "숙모분", "이모분", "외삼촌분", etc. The list goes on. *(That being said, when referring to your own family member,* "분" is not the right option.)
For example, you may come across this term more than often in a phone call conversation between a customer and a customer service agent. *"어머님분 성함이 어떻게 되세요?", "아드님분 나이가 어떻게 되세요?"*
However, with regards specifically to "어머니" (including 큰/작은 어머니), "아버지 (incl. 큰/작은)", "할머니 (incl. 큰/작은)", "할아버지 (incl. 큰/작은)", there is really no need to add "분" as those words in themselves are honorific terms. In the same manner, when referring to a person with whom you are *more or less acquainted*, using "분" is *not* mandatory. As much as it sounds very courteous and respectful, when a person indicates someone with "분", the underlying, general assumption would be that the speaker is not familiar, if not completely unacquainted, with whoever he or she is referring to.


----------



## Michaelkun

pcy0308 said:


> Hello Michaelkun,
> Just a heads-up: the scope of this thread is "how to refer to *someone else's family member*", *not my own*. Keeping that in mind, below is the general "rule" regarding the use of "분" and "님" when referring to someone else's family member.
> 
> As mentioned above, "님"'s use* is limited to one's immediate/direct famiy members who are considered as seniors*. In other words, *할아버님, 할머님, 어머님, 아버님, 형님 *(*not* your 12 year old older brother but say, this would be how your father would refer to his 50 year old older brother or how you would refer to your friend's 40 year old brother), *누님* would be it. The emphasis here is *the seniority*. It would be unnatural and just outright strange to say, for example, "동생님" to refer to your friend's younger brother or younger sister.
> (There are other instances where "님" is used to indicate a person's *title* and *status*, such as "사장님", "부장님", "회장님", "이사님", "고객님", but in this thread, the topic in question is *family members*.)
> 
> "분" is *an honorifc term that is irrelevant to one's title or status* in a family/social heirarchy. Thus, it has much wider applicability, and you can use it to be and sound more courteous and respectful when referring to someone else's family member: for instance, "자녀분", "아드님분"," 따님분", "동생분", "삼촌분", "고모분", "숙모분", "이모분", "외삼촌분", etc. The list goes on. *(That being said, when referring to your own family member,* "분" is not the right option.)
> For example, you may come across this term more than often in a phone call conversation between a customer and a customer service agent. *"어머님분 성함이 어떻게 되세요?", "아드님분 나이가 어떻게 되세요?"*
> However, with regards specifically to "어머니" (including 큰/작은 어머니), "아버지 (incl. 큰/작은)", "할머니 (incl. 큰/작은)", "할아버지 (incl. 큰/작은)", there is really no need to add "분" as those words in themselves are honorific terms. In the same manner, when referring to a person with whom you are *more or less acquainted*, using "분" is *not* mandatory. As much as it sounds very courteous and respectful, when a person indicates someone with "분", the underlying, general assumption would be that the speaker is not familiar, if not completely unacquainted, with whoever he or she is referring to.



Thank you very much for your answer! Now I have quite clear the usage of "-님" and "-분".


----------



## CharlesLee

Yes, there are many many terms for calling people including relatives since Korea has got the longest history in the world.

Your wife gets called 부인 when your wife got a government position from the ancient time or middle age to the present.

Especially from the king. So basically 부인 implies to royal family.

아내 has also a high quality meaning; House in and so on.

One of high Korean musicians devoted a song to a Spanish dame because he probably loved her.

She's currently called 여사 in the case. He lived in  Palma de Mallorca.


----------

