# Urdu: Sic



## iskander e azam

In English, we use the world "sic" to draw attention to a mistake in quoted speech, such as a mis-spelling or poor diction/syntax:

Neil Armstrong, on landing on the moon, said, 'one small step for man [sic], one giant leap for mankind'. The use of sic draws attention to the fact that to be grammatically correct the sentence would need to read 'one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind'. 

What word is used in Urdu for this function?

 Replies much appreciated.


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## Alfaaz

One word used for a usage of _sic (erat scriptum)_ could be بعینہ | _bi-ʻainihi_.





> _Sic_, in its bracketed form, is most often inserted into quoted or reprinted material in order to indicate meticulous accuracy in reproducing the preceding text despite appearances to the reader of an incorrect or unusual orthography (spelling, punctuation, etc.), grammar, fact or logic.


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## Faylasoof

^ Yes! ... and other ways too:

Sic  = یوں_ yuuN_, یوں ہی _yuuN hii_,  اس طرح _isii TarH_, بعینہ _be-3ainihii_,  اسی طرح _isii TarH_,  بالکُل اسی طرح _bilkul isii TarH _ 

Sic Passim =  ہرجا بعینہ  _har jaa be-3ainihii_,  ہرجا اسی طرح  _har jaa isii TarH_,  بالکُل اسی طرح _ bilkul isii TarH_ ,  ہرجا یوں ہی _har jaa yuuN hii_ , ہرجا یوں _har jaa yuuN . _


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## iskander e azam

Could someone give me the words suggested in a sentence? Perhaps, a translation of Neil Armstrong's statement?


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## marrish

_yuuN _for sic seems a good way to use it to me. Otherwise the Latin word can be perhaps used on its own. In case of pointing out to some inaccuracy or ridiculousness in the quoted text, I'm wondering whether it would be conveying the meaning better if we wrote: [_yuuN hii darj hai!_]: *(but I don't know how to retain the lapsus in the Urdu translation!!! Let me use the noun ''mard'' instead of ''insaan or aadamii'') Actually there are voices that he did utter 'a'! *http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/i...s-moon-landing-quote-really-a-misquote-375900

Neil Armstrong, on landing on the moon, said, 'one small step for man [sic], one giant leap for mankind'. The use of sic draws attention to the fact that to be grammatically correct the sentence would need to read 'one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind'. 

_"نیل آرمسٹرانگ نے چاند پر اُتر کر کہا تھا: (یہ) مرد __(ہونہی درج ہے!)__ کے لیے ایک چھوٹا سا قدم، بنی نوعِ انسان کے لیے ایک نہایت بڑی جست

"nail aarmsTraaNg ne chaaNd par utar kar kahaa thaa: (yih) mard [yuuNhii darj hai!] ke liye ek chhoTaa saa qadam, banii nau3-e-insaan ke liye ek nihaayat baRii jast''
_
I am certain other friends can help making this sentence better.


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## marrish

It's been a while that we discussed it but I could remember it and it caught my attention when I read in a qualitative book the word for (sic). It is originally Arabic I suppose but I don't know about it's usage in that language. In the Urdu book from India it was (کذا). _kazaa or kaazaa_?


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## HZKhan

The word is pronounced _kazaa_, and I've seen it in older Urdu books.
http://www.vajehyab.com/dehkhoda/کذا


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## marrish

Thank you very much. The book in which I saw it was just two years old. Therefore it is recommendable to use it I think! On the other hand I think the longer replacements of the one-word-solution which we have tried above are also perfectly usable and accessible to all. 

I wish to thank you for the link too. I tried to acces the loghat-e-dehxodaa on the proper site but it didn't seem to be working. _vaazheyaab_ is a good place to go. I am still wondering why this word is not to be found in Urdu dictionaries and why one has to refer the Persian ones.


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## HZKhan

I'm unable to find this word in any online Urdu dictionary, but I'm sure that most published dictionaries will include it. 

By the way, we have a related _tarkiib_ in our literary language: hai2at e kazaaii.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2930596&highlight=کذائی


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## cherine

marrish said:


> It is originally Arabic I suppose but I don't know about it's usage in that language. In the Urdu book from India it was (کذا). _kazaa or kaazaa_?


Yes, it is the word used in Arabic for (_sic_) and literally means "like this", as in "this is how it was used in the quoted text" or "it was used/mentioned like this in the quoted text", and it's pronounced kadhaa (dh=ذ).


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I am still wondering why this word is not to be found in Urdu dictionaries and why one has to refer the Persian ones.


It is found in Nurul LuGhaat.


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> It is found in Nurul LuGhaat.


Thank you, it is there, indeed:
کذا ۔ فارسی میں چناچُنیں اردو میں اُس طرح اور اس طرح.​I'm wondering whether چناچُنیں is a scribe's error, by the way.

Meanwhile, Urdu Lughat has this (it was not yet online that time):
Urdu Lughat
کذا  ۔ اس طرح، اُس طرح، ایسا ہی ہے۔
اسناد: کسی لفظ یا تکڑے پر کذا لکھا ہو تو سمجنا چاہیے کہ وہ اصل کے عین مطابق ہے یعنی جس طرح اصل نسخے میں موجود ہے بالکل اسی طرح منقول ہے
 ( ۱۹۷۵ ، اردو نامہ ، کراچی ، ۵۰ : ۳۵۵ )
In the the etymological remarks it states: 
[اشتقاق: [ ع : کذالک ( = اس طرح ) کی تخفیف ​I hope @cherine SaaHibah will tell us if it is correct (i.e. in Arabic کذا is تخفیف of كذالك which means ‘like this') because there's been no mention about it in this thread.​


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## Qureshpor

ذا on its own is a demonstrative pronoun meaning "this". كذا like this/thus;  كذالك like that/thus/likewise


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> ذا on its own is a demonstrative pronoun meaning "this". كذا like this/thus;  كذالك like that/thus/likewise


I'm trying to get all out your response so I'm assuming that if کذا means 'like this' and كذالك like that, then کَ carries the meaning of 'like xyz', or '-wise', ذا means 'this' and َذالِك 'that'?


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## Qureshpor

^ Yes, that is how I see it. We use کَ in Urdu in the set phrase کَما حقُہ ka-maa Haqqu-hu ....جیسا اُس کا حق ہے۔


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## iskander e azam

Hi Friends,

Not only does sic draw attention to typos, poor syntax, bad diction, etc it is also used to highlight extreme or absurd views eg Alex thought himself the King of all Urdu speakers (sic).

I post the above for the sake of completion and the instruction of third parties who may be less erudite than the contributors to this thread.

Please, would someone write an incorrect Urdu sentence and place کذا where it should go in it to draw attention to the error committed?

Many thanks,

Alex


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## marrish

^ For this, you'd need to have a look at the other thread for "کذا". For example, 





Gope said:


> وہ جن کی نبضِ حیات دوسروں کے خون کی مرہونِ منّت ہے، وہ جن کا فردوس غربا کے جہنم کی مستعار اینٹوں سے استوار کیا گیا ہے [کذا]، وہ جن سے سازِ عشرت کے ہر تار کے ساتھ بیواؤں کی آہیں، یتیموں کی عریانی، لاوارث بچوں کی صدائے گریہ لپٹی ہوئی ہے –– کہیں، مگر ایک زمانہ آنے والا ہے جب یہی پروردۂ غربت اپنے دلوں کے مشترکہ لہو میں انگلیاں ڈبو ڈبو کر ان لوگوں کی پیشانیوں پر اپنی لعنتیں لکھیں گے — وہ وقت نزدیک ہے جب ارضی جنّت کے دروازے ہر شخص کے لیے وا ہوں گے۔


It's not an incorrect sentence but perhaps there is some editorial issue at play which made the editor mark it.


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## iskander e azam

marrish said:


> ^ For this, you'd need to have a look at the other thread for "کذا". For example, It's not an incorrect sentence but perhaps there is some editorial issue at play which made the editor mark it.



marrish SaaHIb,

Thank you for this.

It clearly shows how کذا would be used in an Urdu sentence.

I now go to look at the thread you suggested.

Best wishes,

Alex


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