# Would you throw a Bible?



## Cracker Jack

In this day and age, there are so many people who are nominal Catholics/Christians, i.e., they may have been brought up or were born as such but they don't practice the religion, hence nominal or Catholics/Christians in name but not in deed.

There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International. In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion. If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you; would you toss it to the garbage bin? On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?

Thanks a lot.


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## maxiogee

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International.



Quibble:
They are not "tasked" with this - they task themselves with it. There is a vast difference in deciding that the Holy Scriptures of one's religion should reach as wide an audience as possible - known as proselytising - and being set this as a task my someone/some body.



			
				Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion.  If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you;  would you toss it to the garbage bin?  On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?


Well I wouldn't accept a Bible - I've got one of them.
I would accept a Koran, as I don't have one and would be interested in seeing it if I got one free.

I don't think I'd bin either of them - I'd probably go back and return it to the donor, or find someone who might want one —> but not out of respect for the content, I'd just find it difficult to bin a book.


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## ireney

I wouldn't throw it either (I am the sort of person that agonises over  throwing away paperbacks of little interest and literary worth _after _they have been reduced due to negligence to tatters).

If I was given a copy of the Koran however, IF it was a copy that Arab speaking people would condone (I have been told times and times again that some of the phrases Europeans find 'objectionable' in the Koran are really not so objectionable and it's because of the difficulty of properly translating the Arabic language to any of the European ones) I would keep it since I don't own one (see the HUGE parenthesis above to know why. I am not going to wade through a holy book I am not religiously interested in just to be told that its translation is wrong).


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## Papalote

Hi, C-Jack,

I wouldn´t accept the Bible as, like Maxiogee, I already own one.

I wouldn´t accept the Koran because I rather buy a good copy that one day one of my muslim friends will recommend. Since I wouldn´t read that copy, I´d rather somebody else who wants it gets it.

If ieither was left at my doorstep, I wouldn´t trash them, out of respect for what (or shoul´d I have said, Who?) they represent. I would donate them to the public library.

See ya,

P


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## diegodbs

If I were handed out a Bible I wouldn't accept it, it is just not the kind of book I'm looking for. Maybe I would accept a Koran out of curiosity because I know nothing about that religion. Anyway, if I were a religious person I wouldn't try to "evangelize" others.


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## Oche Gruso

I am a Jew for Jesus so this is a very interesting question for me.  I do read the Torah and the Bible, so as far as that goes no I would not throw them out.  As far as the Koran or what have you goes, I still would not throw it away.  That is another culture's holy book, and if not anything else I could get a better understanding and appriciation for the people that read that book.  I feel the same way if the situation was switched.  I do not expect anyone to be converted to my religion, but I DO expect them to respect my culture and my religion and mot throw away the holy scriptures that I hold so dear.


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## Keikikoka

I already have quite a few bibles, plus there are plenty free online sources at my finger tips. 

I might take a Koran, but I would prefer to buy a higher quality version. 

Throwing away a new book is almost wrong to me.  I don't think I could do that.


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## aragorn

I totally agree with Papalote


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## Oche Gruso

I wonder...  How far would you carry the thought of respect for another's religion?  What I mean is this:  would you treat satanic scriptures the same way that you would treat a holy book that is not of your religion?


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## aragorn

Oche Gruso said:
			
		

> I wonder... How far would you carry the thought of respect for another's religion? What I mean is this: would you treat satanic scriptures the same way that you would treat a holy book that is not of your religion?


I consider only positive lifestyles to be religions and I have never heard one single life-affirming utterance form any adherant to Satanism


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## maxiogee

Are there "satanic _scriptures_"? As "scripture" means "sacred writing", surely there should be a deity involved? Satan seems to be lacking the "deity" traits.

I'd be fascinated by anything regarding religion, but only because I am such a sceptic and an agnostic, and am fascinated by the improbable & impossible things which people are (a) prepared to believe, (b) prepared to try to convince other people to believe, and (c) prepared to kill over.


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## GenJen54

Satan aside, what if it were a wicca, Hare Krishna or Scientology document?

I personally do not believe in evangelizing of this kind (door to door, street corner, etc.) That does not mean I don't accept and appreciate others' rights to believe how they believe. 

If someone were to try and hand me a holy book, I would probably try to respond with a terse "No Thank You," then walk away. If they insisted, I would probably try to pass it along to someone else, perhaps leaving it in a cafe or other place for someone else to find.

I tend not to carry other people's baggage; nor their books, unless it is something in which I take a personal interest.


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## Oche Gruso

aragorn said:
			
		

> I consider only positive lifestyles to be religions and I have never heard one single life-affirming utterance form any adherant to Satanism


 
Nor have I, however some people think that that particular way of life is a religion, and I was just wondering what were the boundaries.  Then there is also the religion (and forgive me if I seem crude or what have you--I am not that learned in this particular religion) that says if the followers kill everyone that does not fit a certain critique then they will have a plethora of virgins waiting for them in the after-life.  What ye say about that one?


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## GenJen54

> that says if the followers kill everyone that does not fit a certain critique then they will have a plethora of virgins waiting for them in the after-life. What ye say about that one?


 
Hi Oche, 

I believe you are talking about Islam, and their Holy Book the Koran (Qu'uran), which Cracker Jack already addressed.


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## Etcetera

Throw into a dust bin? No, at any rate no.
I've got several copies of The Bible already, so I won't accept one more. But I'd take Koran, 'cause I'm really interested in knowing more about the religion. But I just can't imagine somebody giving away copies of Koran in European part of Russia...
But you know what? Giving me something in the street is very tricky. I'd have no difficulty in outrunning Harry Potter on his Nimbus 2000 - I usually walk very fast and just pay no attention to all those promoters.


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## aragorn

Oche Gruso said:
			
		

> Nor have I, however some people think that that particular way of life is a religion, and I was just wondering what were the boundaries. Then there is also the religion (and forgive me if I seem crude or what have you--I am not that learned in this particular religion) that says if the followers kill everyone that does not fit a certain critique then they will have a plethora of virgins waiting for them in the after-life. What ye say about that one?


I stand by my quote 

Religion must be life affirming and murder would appear to me to be quite the opposite

aragorn


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## emma42

I would accept a Bible or a Qur'an if given to me in the street, although I would not engage in conversation.  Although I have several bibles, I would be interested in another translation/interpretation.  I have not a Qur'an, but have books on Islam with excerpts therein.  Again, I would be interested in different interpretations.

Also, and this is more difficult, I would not be able to help but think of some friends who are Christian and Muslim and are deeply compassionate and sincere people.  I would not feel right throwing away a book that means so much to them.  Call me a softie, if you will.  If I did not want either book, having had a look at them, I would give them to a charity shop.


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## Pivra

No, neither the Koran nor the Bible. I'm a Hindu but I respect other religions as well, our house in Thailand has a Koran and my father puts it with the Gita and the Puranas.


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## DDT

Papalote said:
			
		

> Hi, C-Jack,
> 
> I wouldn´t accept the Bible as, like Maxiogee, I already own one.
> 
> I wouldn´t accept the Koran because I rather buy a good copy that one day one of my muslim friends will recommend. Since I wouldn´t read that copy, I´d rather somebody else who wants it gets it.
> 
> If ieither was left at my doorstep, I wouldn´t trash them, out of respect for what (or shoul´d I have said, Who?) they represent. I would donate them to the public library.
> 
> See ya,
> 
> P



I fully concur...only I really hope someday my currently poor Arabic will allow me to read the original version since like ireney I am sort of suspicious of translations. Moreover I normally (when possible, of course   ) choose to read the texts in their original versions because I think translations necessarily prevent from grasping some linguistic nuances

DDT


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## linguist786

Oche Gruso said:
			
		

> Nor have I, however some people think that that particular way of life is a religion, and I was just wondering what were the boundaries. Then there is also the religion (and forgive me if I seem crude or what have you--I am not that learned in this particular religion) that says if the followers kill everyone that does not fit a certain critique then they will have a plethora of virgins waiting for them in the after-life. What ye say about that one?


Oh pur-lease! This is a classic example of taking something completely out of context and changing what it's trying to say. (It's obvious you're talking about Islam?) Islam doesn't say "go and kill non-muslims and you will get virgins in heaven" - for heavens' sake!
I won't bother going into it.. I don't want this to lead to argument or what have you.  

Back to the topic. 
I myself am a Muslim. If someone handed over a Bible to me in the street, I just wouldn't accept it because it is a holy scripture which I simply don't believe in (well, I'm not saying all of it is "false" - there are bits that agree with the Qur'an). If they insisted on me having it, I would just donate it/pass it on to a friend. I would _not_ bin it!! I would find that so disrespectful if someone did that.

Now if someone was handing out Qur'ans on the street - I wouldn't accept them either. Call me a cynic, but there are various groups around the world who have a deep dislike of Islam, and try to cause fitnah* by trying to change the message of Islam (for example, by producing false Qur'aans) - which is why I wouldn't accept them. Anyway, how much does it cost to buy a Qur'aan? Not much. And plus, alhamdulillah, I have the Qur'aan in my heart (May God keep it that way. Ameen)


*fitnah - "mischief" i think would be the nearest translation. It's a bit stronger than that though I think.


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## emma42

I have to say, Ocho Gruso, that your post #13 could be seen as perhaps ill-judged and, you yourself said, that you were "not learned in this particular religion".  The topic is about whether one would accept a holy book in the street.


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## Joelline

I would accept a Bible (if it were a version I didn't already have), a Koran (if it were a different translation from the ones I have), a book of Scientology, a wiccan book, etc.  I like to try to understand what others believe in.  I don't think I ever understood the expression "a willing suspension of disbelief" until I read the Koran for the first time.  It can be very, very hard to read the holy books of another religion with an open mind.

What I do throw away are pamphlets that are supposed to be individual biblical books: these are garbage: filled with misquotes, made-up texts (or I assume they are made up because they're not in any version I have), mixed in with "interpretations" of the text.  I try to explain I don't want one, but if it is forced on me, I will dispose of them as quickly as possible.


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## emma42

Does this sort of offer happen much in forer@s countries?  Is it a big city thing?

I have never been offered a holy book, but have been offered religious pamphlets, which I sometimes decline, depending on mood.


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## cuchuflete

DDT said:
			
		

> I fully concur...only I really hope someday my currently poor Arabic will allow me to read the original version since like ireney I am sort of suspicious of translations. Moreover I normally (when possible, of course   ) choose to read the texts in their original versions because I think translations necessarily prevent from grasping some linguistic nuances
> 
> DDT



Do you read the bible in any of the original languages?  The English versions have been through more than one translation.

I assume the same is true of Italian or French versions.


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## diegodbs

> Does this sort of offer happen much in forer@s countries? Is it a big city thing?


 
Not in Spain that I know of. I have never seen anyone in Madrid or other places handing out Bibles or any other religious books.


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## Pivra

Some missinary groups in Thailand are just absolutely rude. They show no respects to neither temples nor mosques. I am not religious at all (almost an athiest) but I "loath" it when they talk on loud speakers in front of temples to teach people to be afraid of "God" and saying that we are all going to tell and handing out bibles and much more. I saw one missionary book, protestant, and it insults, the Buddha, Mohamad (may peace be upon him), Hindu deities, and much more. I would not even want to confront any of these people. Christianity is the ONLY religion in Thailand that promotes stuff on TV advertisements and give out flyers and "annoy" us all by knocking on our doors. I don't understand why they do this but that .5% of the population are over participating in their religious congregations. They wanted us to BAN the da vinci code because it insults their religion without taking notice that they only make up .5% of the population (luckily we didnt ban anything; wonder how many people actually read the book, they just want to look religious and faithful to God and go along with the trend). Most of them are Thais, mainly uneducated, poor, absolutely rural. They were easily converted by western or chinese (singaporeans, taiwanese, hong kong etc etc) missionaries through little helps and money. When I compare how Christianity is runned in other countries it is pathetic to see how people do it over there. 

btw. I dont think this is what Jesus wants.
ANYWAY, my dad's American friend gave me a bible and I read it until I can remember most of the Old Testament lol. But I would never take one from the type of people I've mentioned above.


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## danielfranco

I've never had anyone offer me a sacred text of any religion in the street. Not here in the USA nor in Mexico. However, in Mexico City we did have a whole bunch of people handing out leaflets (or pamphlets, if you wish) at the exits of movie theaters, subway stations, etc. 
Back then, because I was a very angry and violent teenager, I used to ask them to please save me the trouble and throw away those leaflets for me...

Such reaction never seemed to please them, don't know why...

Nowdays, I guess I wouldn't be so rude, but still I wouldn't accept one of those texts. If they insisted, I would insist they take it back. I consider myself a Christian (lapsed, perhaps) but that hardly has anything to do with letting people press on me unsolicited material. I guess if someone actually tossed a holy text at me and ran away, then I would find a public place to lay it down and let fate choose the next recepient.


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## emma42

In Nottingham, where I live, there is a local character, whom nobody seems to mind. He is an elderly man, with a broad Nottingham accent, who spends all day, every day, walking around the city centre (which is quite compact) enjoining people to take to (the Christian) god. He does not shout, nor does he "get in people's faces". He simply walks around, quoting from the Bible, holding his placard, telling people that "we" are all sinners and should repent. As I said, it's not delivered in a "hellfire and brimstone" manner. I hvae lived here for 22 years and he has been around ever since I can remember. He sometimes hands out pamphlets, but never stops his continuous monologue.

I think that when he dies, the city will hold a service for him, as a beloved local character. The city did this for another old man, who spent years and years sitting on the street playing the same five notes on a tiny glockenspiel, quite happily.

To get back on topic, nobody I have seen has been offended by this man, although I strongly suspect that many of his leaflets etc are tossed quietly away.


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## Sallyb36

I just wouldn't accept them in the first place.  I never accept any religious publications given in the street (or anywhere else for that matter).  People here are always trying to give me the jehovas witness magazine, and get quite offended when I say I don't want it.  i get quite peeved when they knock on my door on a Sunday afternoon asking me if I want a better life!  Who doesn't, that's why we all work every hour we do.  My better life would include not being disturbed on a Sunday afternoon.


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## Mei

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> In this day and age, there are so many people who are nominal Catholics/Christians, i.e., they may have been brought up or were born as such but they don't practice the religion, hence nominal or Catholics/Christians in name but not in deed.
> 
> There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International. In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion. If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you; would you toss it to the garbage bin? On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Hi Cracker Jack,

I wouldn't accept any book of someone I don't know.

I'm not a Christian or Muslim or whatever and now I'm reading the Bible because a good friend gave it to me. Right now is just a book for me, I just try to understand it. If you want I'll let you know what I think when I finish it. I just can say that the Bible is a best seller and in my own opinion is a book that everybody should read as well as "El Quijote" (not yet but is on my list ) and many more.

Cheers

Mei


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## Etcetera

emma42 said:
			
		

> Does this sort of offer happen much in forer@s countries? Is it a big city thing?


When I was at primary school (1993-1996), The Gideons International were giving away their copies of the New Testament and Psalms. I received a copy in my school, my Father get one at work (he's a doctor), and my Mum also got one. 
Several years later, I happened to go into a Protestant church in Moscow, and here they give me a copy of Protestant Bible. OK< I didn't refuse to accept it. 
But as for giving away Holy Books in street - I've never seen anything like that. (We aren't speaking about Scientology and all such things, are we?)


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## charlyboy81

I would not accept a copy of the Bible because it would not be of any use for me; I think I would accept it later, when I am ready to take some time to read it carefully. Right now everything is a bit blur hehe...

Regarding the Koran, I already have a version but it is in Arabic (from some Indonesian friends), so I can't read it. It looks very nice though. If I can get my hands on a French or even English version, I will accept it.


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## DDT

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Do you read the bible in any of the original languages?  The English versions have been through more than one translation.
> 
> I assume the same is true of Italian or French versions.



You assume correctly 

I started to study Arabic since I wanted to read the original version of some philosophy texts by Averroe and I also think it might be a good start in order to approach Aramaic someday. And I'd love to learn some Hebrew too, of course. In order to be able to read the Bible and some other texts written in Aramaic and/or Hebrew. So I regret being unable to read the Bible in any of the original languages at the moment

DDT


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## emma42

Ciao, DDT.  Remember the New Testament was written in Greek, so you haven't got much to do!


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## DDT

emma42 said:
			
		

> Ciao, DDT.  Remember the New Testament was written in Greek, so you haven't got much to do!



I know, eheh, but I consider that the translations of the New Testament are the more reliable part of the Bible from an exegetic point of view. That's why I am basically more interested in reading/analysing the Old Testament - and the Qumran scripts too - in their original languages

DDT


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## emma42

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Bible/nt-languages.html Whoops! Have a look at this. You will probably know it already, but it's an interesting article.  Link in inappropriate place - it's the first time I've done one like this.


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## robbie_SWE

Sorry to say it, but I would toss it in the garbage (both the bible and the Koran). Or maybe I would donate it to charity. 

I am a Christian, but I have a very hard time believing the bible. It has happened that I have received a bible from some Christian group, but I just gave it away to the first person that wanted it.


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## Cracker Jack

Thank you very much for your overwhelming replies.  Judging from what I read, your reaction would be as good as mine.  Even if it won't be useful to me, I would not junk a book.  Even though I am not an adherent, I find it outrageous just throwing it away because for some adherents, it is deemed holy.

Like most of you, I may pass it on to someone or flatly refuse it.  That would be better than getting rid of it in a scurrilous way.  The reason why I asked this question is that a few weeks ago, somebody was distributing Bibles in the downtown area.  They were from The Gideons.  A few meters away, I saw a trash bin half-filled with Bibles.  It was a horror to my gaze.  I didn't discount the possibility that one, two or even ten may do it.  I didn't count them but I think there were more than 50.

Poor Gideonites!  If only they knew.


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## Etcetera

Oh my. It's really scary.
I can't undertand such a behaviour, frankly. I've never found it difficult to refuse something I'm offered (but don't want to take). Promoters usually don't insist on your taking anything from them, do they?..


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## emma42

Ah, so sweet, etcetera! People often insist on your taking things from them, including pamphlets, insurance policies and bullshit. You just have to be firm, say no thank you, and walk away.


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## Oche Gruso

emma42 said:
			
		

> I have to say, Ocho Gruso, that your post #13 could be seen as perhaps ill-judged and, you yourself said, that you were "not learned in this particular religion". The topic is about whether one would accept a holy book in the street.


 
Yes, I also apologized for my crudeness if you recall.  Also, if you were reading before that, I was asking about accepting a book of Satanic worship, and the reason for that, if you recall, was because I was wondering to what degree some people would accept religious books.  I never steered from the topic.  I just asked about a different organization's book of worship. _ I think that I said that one before, too._


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## Etcetera

emma42 said:
			
		

> Ah, so sweet, etcetera! People often insist on your taking things from them, including pamphlets, insurance policies and bullshit. You just have to be firm, say no thank you, and walk away.


Then, local promoters just aren't so tiresome... Anyway, why not say this 'no thank you' and walk away?


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## emma42

I'm not sure I understand you, etcetera.


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## Poetic Device

I would keep anything that I felt would benefit me or anyone that is close to me, and then give the rest to charity.  As far as someone giving away religious books in the street, I have seen it before.  A bunch of Jehova's Witnesses were giving away free Bibles that were the New King James Version.  Can I just say that was the worst translation of the Bible that I have ever read?


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## emma42

Yes, you can, Poetic Device, and you are very welcome to the Forum!  And you have the cooolest name.

Many people are decrying the New King James version and are insisting on keeping the old. Does this talk about a liking for tradition or are people objecting to new interpretation?


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## Etcetera

Well, Emma... I just meant that I couldn't see any problem with refusing to accept anything a promoter would try to give you in the street. You can ys say your firm 'no', hands in pocket, and walk away. Moreover, if you see a promoter in front of you and it's your principle not to take anything, then pick up speed and just pass this promoter!
What's the point of taking anything just to throw it into a dust bin?..


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## Etcetera

What's the New King James version, by the way? I know about the old one, but I've never heard of any new translations of the Bible into English.


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## robbie_SWE

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Well, Emma... I just meant that I couldn't see any problem with refusing to accept anything a promoter would try to give you in the street. You can ys say your firm 'no', hands in pocket, and walk away. Moreover, if you see a promoter in front of you and it's your principle not to take anything, then pick up speed and just pass this promoter!
> What's the point of taking anything just to throw it into a dust bin?..


 
Sorry to say it, but some people just don't take no for an answer! I have tried to say no to people who hand out things, but they keep insisting. Ok, maybe throwing out a bible is a bit harsh, but I do actually consider the bible to be in the same category as "unwanted advertising". 

I have no trouble throwing things out after receiving them. Specially pamphlets from racist parties  , which are unfortunately very popular here in Sweden.


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## emma42

Right etcetera.  I am confused now because just earlier you said, "Oh my.  It's really scary...promoters don't usually insist on your taking anything from them, do they?"  But you also said, in the middle of that, "I've never found it difficult to refuse something I'm offered..."  Do you see how I was a bit confused?!


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## Etcetera

Then, we have to admit that Russian promoters are somewhat different from their 'colleagues' from other European countries! Or I was so lucky as to never meeting promoters who would _insist_ on my accepting anything. 
I must say that, in my opinion, street is not the right place for giving away the Bibles...


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## robbie_SWE

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Then, we have to admit that Russian promoters are somewhat different from their 'colleagues' from other European countries! Or I was so lucky as to never meeting promoters who would _insist_ on my accepting anything.
> *I must say that, in my opinion, street is not the right place for giving away the Bibles...*


 
I COMPLETELY AGREE!


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## emma42

Oh, right, etcetera, I understand now. You don't find it difficult in _your _country.


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## Etcetera

emma42 said:
			
		

> Oh, right, etcetera, I understand now. You don't find it difficult in _your _country.


Now I've read all the posts in this thread, I think that's so, indeed. Promoters should be different in each country...


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## Poetic Device

Etcetera said:
			
		

> What's the New King James version, by the way? I know about the old one, but I've never heard of any new translations of the Bible into English.


 
The New King James Version of the Bible is the Christian Bible but without the thee and thy and thine.  It is supposed to be easier to understand, but I personally find that it not only is harder to comprehend but it also loses a lot in the translation.


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## Etcetera

Thank you, Poetic Device!


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## Papalote

Poetic Device said:
			
		

> The New King James Version of the Bible is the Christian Bible but without the thee and thy and thine. It is supposed to be easier to understand, but I personally find that it not only is harder to comprehend but it also loses a lot in the translation.


 
Hi, Poetic Device

I wouldn´t precisely call it a translation. From what I have read, it is mainly a modern rewriting of the old version, so that it will appeal to quasi-analphabet youths. I´m surprised that it wasn´t done in a comic book style! 

The worst is that it has lost all the poetry of the old version.

But, I wouldn´t throw even that one away. My own copy will be adorning the shelves of my old alma mater soon.

By the way, I also love your handle.

Take care,

P


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## Poetic Device

That is a much better explanation than I could have ever given. Bravo!  In all honesty I don't believe that I would discard the book either just because of my respect for the religion.

P.s, for all of those of whom have made a comment on my name, thank you!


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## Pedro Arteaga

I was working for a long time in a library. We recieved a lot of books as gifts. Amoung these books there were many Bibles, and other sacred writings of different religions. It was somehow difficult... what should we do with these books, if we had them already? It was also very difficult to find someone who would like to have them. As I work very much in interreligious affairs, I decided to treat them all alike! As catholics we are supposed to burn them, if they are not longer useful. Yet I always did it "secretly" as I didn't want to hurt anybody who might be offended if I burn "their" scriptures. I ushually burned them together... 
I guess it is very important to understand why someone bins a book. It is very different if someone does it is out of disrespect or just out of ignorance.
I do not like it very much either, if the Sacred Texts are treated in a "unsacred" way... to start with by those who hand them out to people who obviously don't want them. If i really care about my "scriptures" I should be leading in the way I treat them. I like it, if the Gideons put them into Hotel rooms, or waiting rooms, but I don't think it is appropriate to somehow "force" them onto people out in the street.
lol


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## linguist786

I advise everyone not to accept a Qur'aan if it's being given out in the street - not that this would ever be seen anyway (has anyone seen this?)

The reason I say this is that firstly, to touch the Qur'an (Arabic), you need to have Wudhu (ablution) and any Muslim would know that. This obviously means no-one would do it (as in, no Muslim would). If anyone does, then they are most likely to be non-muslims trying to spread "false Qur'aans" so people get a bad impression of Islam. 

(Just as an example, there was a false Qur'aan made in America some time ago. It was called "The True Furqaan" - try googling it and see the comments of people on it on sites like *famous river in brazil* )

(I heard you shouldn't mention names like that here, so I avoided it  I'm sure you all know what I mean)


----------



## GenJen54

Hi Linguist, 

This is very interesting and unknown to me. Are you saying that copies of the "real" Qu'ran are not available to non-believers? What about those who have an interest in learning about the faith, simply as a matter of understanding?  Are they not allowed to read the book? 

What separates these "real" Qu'rans from the false ones? Is it a different interpretation or translation?

For the record, I didn't even realize (and don't believe) that proselytizing or promotion of faith is part of Muslim faith. I've never seen a follwer of Islam acting as a streetside prophet, or anyway trying to promote their faith publicly for the purposes of conversion like some Christian evangelicals do. Perhaps that is by geographical default. Perhaps it is not part of the faith.

Could you please enlighten me?


----------



## diegodbs

Two of the English words I have learned by reading this thread are: Gideons and wicca. I had not the slightest idea of what they meant, thanks to Wikipedia now I know.
Is it true they put Bibles in hotels rooms? Who do they think they are? Why don't they evangelize themselves and leave the rest alone? Politicians, at least, try to "evangelize" their voters for a few days or weeks before every election. Are those Gideons going to do the same until Doomsday?
In the 19th century, an Englishman George Borrow (in Spain he was known as "Don Jorgito") tried to teach and sell the Bible in Spain. It was a failure but at least he wrote a travel book "The Bible in Spain", an interesting book about the Spaniards and their customs of that time. Are Gideons writing travel books about the countries they visit or can they only recommend the best hotel rooms where they put their Bibles?


----------



## GenJen54

> Is it true they put Bibles in hotels rooms? Who do they think they are? Why don't they evangelize themselves and leave the rest alone?


 
The question is, why do hotels allow the bibles in the first place?  In doing such, are corporations not as guilty of "proselytizing" as the Gideons themselves?

(Note: I have no objection really.  I am indifferent that they leave them there.  I understand how others might be offended.)


----------



## maxiogee

The problem with the evangelisation of The Gideons is that they draw their authority from the words of their Bible:

1 Kings 8
60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that Yahweh, he is God; there is none else.


… and also from the words of Jesus

Matthew 28
19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things which I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Now, this is akin to other religious faiths/people who claim their authority from their holy scriptures - which they claim to be unquestionable.


----------



## Pedro Arteaga

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Two of the English words I have learned by reading this thread are: Gideons and wicca. I had not the slightest idea of what they meant, thanks to Wikipedia now I know.
> Is it true they put Bibles in hotels rooms? Who do they think they are? Why don't they evangelize themselves and leave the rest alone? Politicians, at least, try to "evangelize" their voters for a few days or weeks before every election. Are those Gideons going to do the same until Doomsday?
> In the 19th century, an Englishman George Borrow (in Spain he was known as "Don Jorgito") tried to teach and sell the Bible in Spain. It was a failure but at least he wrote a travel book "The Bible in Spain", an interesting book about the Spaniards and their customs of that time. Are Gideons writing travel books about the countries they visit or can they only recommend the best hotel rooms where they put their Bibles?


 
Hi diegodbs

It is very simple why they do it. The person who initiated the Gideons, once found himself in a terrible personal crisis. He had decided to end his life and was about to commit suicide. As he was getting ready for it (he was staying in a hotel) he found by accident a bible a former hotel guest must have forgotten. He started reading it and overcame his crisis. He was very thankful for his life to be saved in this way and he wanted to help others to do have the same oportunity. 
I don't know about Spain, but here in the US you can find not only the Bible but also other writings in most of the Hotels (at least the ones I visited so far). Their Bibles are usually very simple and most of the time only the New Testament.

GenJen54 The Gideons don't try to proselytise directly, as they do not belong to a specific denomination.


----------



## Gatamariposa

I would not accept either if offered, I was given a Good News Bible at school as a joke by someone who knew that I had no interest in it and wanted to see what I would do with it.  I love books, so I gave it to the Library, and out of curiosity compared it to an older copy.

Gatita


----------



## GenJen54

> but here in the US you can find not only the Bible but also other writings in most of the Hotels


 
Hi Pedro, 

Are you speaking of other *religious* writings? I've never seen anything but a bible (New Testament, generally) in any hotel room.  Certainly not copies of the Qu'ran, Bhagavad Gita, Buddhist or other holy book.  I may have come across a copy of the Watchtower or Morman Book of Prayer, but nothing representative of another "faith."


----------



## Pedro Arteaga

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Hi Pedro,
> 
> Are you speaking of other *religious* writings? I've never seen anything but a bible (New Testament, generally) in any hotel room. Certainly not copies of the Qu'ran, Bhagavad Gita, Buddhist or other holy book. I may have come across a copy of the Watchtower or Morman Book of Prayer, but nothing representative of another "faith."


 
Well, I´ve seen just like you writings of Jehova´s witnesses and of Mormons, once i found a Qu´ran and once a writing from the Hare Krishna Movement.


----------



## Cereth

well ...answering the original question....i won´t throw a bible ever!....it is a book i know but there is written sacred things that i believe in...maybe i´d feel like i´m throwing also my faith...or losing my respect to god... sounds silly though...


----------



## diegodbs

Cereth said:
			
		

> well ...answering the original question....i won´t throw a bible ever!....it is a book i know but there is written sacred things that i believe in...maybe i´d feel like i´m throwing also my faith...or losing my respect to god... sounds silly though...


 
I don't believe in gods, but I wouldn't feel guilty if I throw away books that support my point of view or my opinions. What is it so different that could make you feel "guilty" if you throw away religious books?


----------



## Cereth

hola Diego,here the question would be...why should i want to throw a bible away in the first place?? if i´d throw the bible that would be because i have a reason to do so..and i can´t find such reason... do you see my point? i won´t throw away the Coran either..... 
l


----------



## linguist786

Hi GenJen54


			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Are you saying that copies of the "real" Qu'ran are not available to non-believers?


No no - absolutely not. All I am saying is, you shouldn't accept a "Qur'aan" if it was given to you in the street. You can very easily obtain it from a reputable Islamic bookstore. Of course they're available - to everyone! Islam is a religion for everyone.





			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> What about those who have an interest in learning about the faith, simply as a matter of understanding? Are they not allowed to read the book?


Noooo!! lol you've got the wrong end of the stick. Anyone can read the Qur'aan! You can very easily obtain a Qur'aan from a reputable source, like I said before. The thing is however, the Qur'aan is very "deep" and it needs explaining. You may read a verse - but you would have to read interpretations of Islamic scholars together with it to understand it fully.





			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> What separates these "real" Qu'rans from the false ones? Is it a different interpretation or translation?


There is only one real Qur'an - there always will be! The Qur'aan has not been changed from the day it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad. The Qur'aan will not be changed until the Day of Judgement. People will never be able to change the word of God - there are people around the world who have memorised the entire Qur'aan - these people are called Huffaaz. Alhamdulillah, I am one of them.


			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> For the record, I didn't even realize (and don't believe) that proselytizing or promotion of faith is part of Muslim faith. I've never seen a follwer of Islam acting as a streetside prophet, or anyway trying to promote their faith publicly for the purposes of conversion like some Christian evangelicals do. Perhaps that is by geographical default. Perhaps it is not part of the faith.


Islam does not need to be "promoted" - this should be done by actions of Muslims themselves. Unfortunately, Muslims nowadays themselves (and I admit, I am included. May I be improved!) do not show the non-Muslims what Islam is all about! Islam was spread through people looking at the characters of the "true followers" (notably the Sahabah)


----------



## linguist786

diegodbs said:
			
		

> What is it so different that could make you feel "guilty" if you throw away religious books?


Because you're offending people of that religion - does that not matter to you?


----------



## diegodbs

Cereth said:
			
		

> hola Diego,here the question would be...why should i want to throw a bible away in the first place?? if i´d throw the bible that would be because i have a reason to do so..and i can´t find such reason... do you see my point? i won´t throw away the Coran either.....
> l


 
Hola Cereth, I'm sorry if my words could be confusing. I didn't mean you had to, or needed to throw a bible away. It was just that in the same way that I don't feel I am doing anything wrong if I throw away books that support my opinions, if you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near a bus station, and you have two more bibles, why would you need that third copy unless you are a scholar? why wouldn't you just dispose of it without feeling guilty or feeling you're somehow betraying your religious beliefs? You believe in something and there have been people who wrote books supporting your views, that's all.


----------



## moirag

From an ecological point of view, I simply wouldn´t accept the Bible in the first place , the same as I often don´t accept single sheets of publicity, just to throw them in the bin. Aren´t we meant to be trying to save the planet, or something? As to whether these people on the street can MAKE YOU take them....this question beggars belief! What on earth do they do to you? "Thanks, but no thanks" has always worked for me.


----------



## Cereth

Hey Diego! I see your point now... pero pienso que si tuviera una biblia extra la regalaría en vez de deshacerme de ella...quizás la regalaría a una pareja de recién casados , a un niño que vaya a hacer la primera comunión.. yo no me considero católica ni cristiana en lo particular pero creo que hay ciertas cosas que son sagradas y que tienen su propia fuerza per se, éste es el caso de la Biblia que en general es un libro que intenta hacer descansar tu espíritu o reconfortarte tras el miedo subito, la desesperanza...supongo que no lo tiraría por respeto a toda la gente que ha tratado de poner lo mejor de ella en las líneas del mencionado libro...


----------



## Poetic Device

Cereth said:
			
		

> Hey Diego! I see your point now... pero pienso que si tuviera una biblia extra la regalaría en vez de deshacerme de ella...quizás la regalaría a una pareja de recién casados , a un niño que vaya a hacer la primera comunión.. yo no me considero católica ni cristiana en lo particular pero creo que hay ciertas cosas que son sagradas y que tienen su propia fuerza per se, éste es el caso de la Biblia que en general es un libro que intenta hacer descansar tu espíritu o reconfortarte tras el miedo subito, la desesperanza...supongo que no lo tiraría por respeto a toda la gente que ha tratado de poner lo mejor de ella en las líneas del mencionado libro...


 
Hola Cereth,

¡No habría podido decirlo mejor! ¡Muy bueno!!
Baisically this is how I look at it.  If I was not religious or spiritual I would treat a holy book the same way that I would treat the works of Shakespeare.  Therefore I would not harm it in any way.


----------



## Cereth

Hello Poetic Device!

Yes Holy books and books as important as Shakespeare´s or Hesse´s, etc, should not be thrown basically because there´s not a good reason for doing so...
cheers!


----------



## maxiogee

Cereth said:
			
		

> Hello Poetic Device!
> 
> Yes Holy books and books as important as Shakespeare´s or Hesse´s, etc, should not be thrown basically because there´s not a good reason for doing so...
> cheers!



*No* book should be thrown! And not just "classics" such as Shakespeare, Hesse, Cervantes, etc. Many books are too good to throw
and some aren't worth the effort of throwing.


----------



## fenixpollo

linguist786 said:
			
		

> ... to touch the Qur'an (Arabic), you need to have Wudhu (ablution) and any Muslim would know that.


 Do you mean that only a person who has washed their hands can touch a Qur'an?  Or that only someone who has undergone a religous hand-cleansing ritual may touch the Qur'an? 





			
				linguist786 said:
			
		

> You can very easily obtain it from a reputable Islamic bookstore. Of course they're available - to everyone! Islam is a religion for everyone.


 I am just as confused as GenJen because these two statements sound contradictory, from the point of view of an outsider.


----------



## emma42

Yes, I am confused about that too.  I also have to say that Linguist's feat at the age of 18 is absolutely astounding.


----------



## maxiogee

emma42 said:
			
		

> Yes, I am confused about that too.  I also have to say that Linguist's feat at the age of 18 is absolutely astounding.



Perhaps,
I would ask what age this learning began at? (There is a tendency among religions to attempt to inculcate themselves into the very young,)
I would also ask what is the point? linguist says…



			
				linguist786 said:
			
		

> The thing is however, the Qur'aan is very "deep" and it needs explaining. You may read a verse - but you would have to read interpretations of Islamic scholars together with it to understand it fully.



… What 'benefit' is there in knowing "by heart" something so deep. This reminds me of the Catholic Catechism of my youth, much of which had to be memorised by under-7s, and even more by under-11s.
'Knowledge' without wisdom is ridiculous, and borders on propagandisation.


----------



## Sallyb36

I must say that my experience with religion did afterwards feel a lot like brainwashing.  I think it goes on a lot.


----------



## cuchuflete

Pedro Arteaga said:
			
		

> Their Bibles are usually very simple and most of the time only the New Testament.
> 
> GenJen54 The Gideons don't try to proselytise directly, as they do not belong to a specific denomination.



Pardon me Pedro,
Your comments are typical of one who accepts that Christianity is 'normal'.  For the majority of humanity, who do not share that view, the New Testament absolutely does belong to a specific denomination.  That this denomination is fragmented into smaller tribal groupings doesn't change that.


----------



## emma42

Maxiogee, I would love to discuss this further (learning the Qu'ran by heart) but it is off-topic. I will open a new thread.


----------



## sjofre

I'm a non-practising Christian but I would not throw a bible or Koran or any other book in the garbage. I would maybe read it, for cultural reasons, or, if I was not interested in reading it, maybe I would give it to someone else.


----------



## gotitadeleche

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Pardon me Pedro,
> Your comments are typical of one who accepts that Christianity is 'normal'.  For the majority of humanity, who do not share that view, the New Testament absolutely does belong to a specific denomination.  That this denomination is fragmented into smaller tribal groupings doesn't change that.



Cucho, just to clarify, I believe Pedro is saying that the Gideons, NOT the New Testament, do not belong to a specific denomination. That, however, does not change the point you are making.


----------



## gato2

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Well, Emma... I just meant that I couldn't see any problem with refusing to accept anything a promoter would try to give you in the street. You can ys say your firm 'no', hands in pocket, and walk away. Moreover, if you see a promoter in front of you and it's your principle not to take anything, then pick up speed and just pass this promoter!
> What's the point of taking anything just to throw it into a dust bin?..


 
Estoy de acuerdo. No es tan dificil evitar que te den algo que no quieres. Miras a otra parte, con las manos escondidas y aceleras el paso. Si no te lo meten en la boca a la fuerza no hay forma humana de que te den nada.

Respecto a si tiraria una Biblia o el Coran a la basura, no creo. Me sabria mal tirar un libro a la basura y aunque ya tengo una Biblia seguramente la pondria en la estanteria y no pensaria mas en ello.


----------



## ukuca

Well I'm not a Muslim nor Christian and I've simply never believed in God. (By the way, I've both read the Bible and the Qur'an) But I would never throw their holy scriptures to the garbage because I think that kind of behaviour would be disrespectful.


----------



## chichita

I was brought up by my parents as a Catholic but don't practice the religions for different reasons only of my concern, my family also taught me about respect for other religions, I wouldn't throw to the garbage a Bible or any other religious text, that would be disrespectful.

Warm regards


----------



## Poetic Device

I just thought of something.  If you had a holy book for so many years and then it was torn to shreads and such just because it was old, how would you properly dispose of it?  Doesn't this create a dilemma since we don't throw holy books out?  Also, as far as burning them goes (because I think that I remember someone writing that in the begining of this thread), isn't that just as disrespectful?  I have never been put in any of these situations so I don't know...


----------



## Clayjar

Another possibility to think about (unless it's beyond the scope of this thread.)

If, rather than a copy of the Bible or the Koran, you were given a pamphelt from an atheist organization outlining the "Ten top reasons there cannot be a God" or something like that, would you accept it? Would you throw it out?


----------



## maxiogee

Now that, Clayjar, is something *I* would read with great interest.
However, the pamphleteer would need to be good to force it into my unopen, unoutstretched hand.  I usually shun pamphlets in the street unless others seem to be reading them with great interest, or unless there is some sort of display detailing what they're 'pushing'.


----------



## Etcetera

Clayjar said:
			
		

> Another possibility to think about (unless it's beyond the scope of this thread.)
> 
> If, rather than a copy of the Bible or the Koran, you were given a pamphelt from an atheist organization outlining the "Ten top reasons there cannot be a God" or something like that, would you accept it? Would you throw it out?


Well, it's really hard to force me to accept anything in the street.  But if they would be so lucky as to make me take this pamphlete - I'll throw it into the nearest dustbin.


----------



## Poetic Device

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Now that, Clayjar, is something *I* would read with great interest.
> However, the pamphleteer would need to be good to force it into my unopen, unoutstretched hand.  I usually shun pamphlets in the street unless others seem to be reading them with great interest, or unless there is some sort of display detailing what they're 'pushing'.


 
I agree.  The lack of belief always facinated me.


----------



## Sallyb36

Poetic Device said:
			
		

> I agree.  The lack of belief always facinated me.



Belief always used to fascinate me, which is why I went to church religiously for 2 and a half years, to see what it is all about.


----------



## Kexet

If someone tried to give me the bible I wouldn't take it, since I've looked in it before and it's boring. (I don't believe in Christianity, even though I live in a "Christian" country). If someone gave me the Koran and it was in a language I could understand I would keep it since I've read anything from one before.


----------



## maxiogee

Clayjar said:
			
		

> If, rather than a copy of the Bible or the Koran, you were given a pamphelt from an atheist organization outlining the "Ten top reasons there cannot be a God" or something like that, would you accept it? Would you throw it out?




*1*


			
				Etcetera said:
			
		

> Well, it's really hard to force me to accept anything in the street.  But if they would be so lucky as to make me take this pamphlete - I'll throw it into the nearest dustbin.


 May I ask why?


*2 *


			
				Poetic Device said:
			
		

> I agree.  The lack of belief always facinated me.


 I don't feel a 'lack', quite the opposite.
The only "lack" I am aware of is the lack of reason, evidence or foundation for belief in a God.


----------



## Etcetera

maxiogee said:
			
		

> *1* May I ask why?


Of course you may. I just can't the any point for wasting my time in reading atheist pamphletes - they won't shake my faith anyway.


----------



## maxiogee

Ah yes, never let reason interfere with one's beliefs.


----------



## Etcetera

What makes you say so, Tony?
Actually, I know all those reasons which atheists like so much. Not from pamphletes, though.And they all sound as these atheists want to assure _themselves_ that God doesn't exist.


----------



## maxiogee

Etcetera said:
			
		

> What makes you say so, Tony?


You have answered for me…



> Actually, I know all those reasons which atheists like so much.


It's called prejudging - the root of "prejudice". You are assuming that there will be nothing new in the pamphlet.


----------



## Etcetera

And what new can be there?


----------



## Poetic Device

Etcetera said:
			
		

> And what new can be there?


 
There are always new things that are being discovered, it's just a matter of whether you want to saught it out.  (FYI, this is not just directed toward you.  It is towards everyone.)
If that doesn't buy iyou, what about this one:  No one person knows everything there is to know about everything or even one subject.  Life's lesson is to learn.


----------



## GenJen54

I find it ironic that people demand respect for those holy books in which they hold beleif, but doctrines of others, if not considered "holy" are not given equal respect.

Following this reasoning (if it is reasoning), those who don't believe in the bible (or other "holy" book) are free to throw them away at no risk of offending believers.


----------



## maxiogee

Etcetera said:
			
		

> And what new can be there?



Nothing, to one who doesn't look.


----------



## Aldin

I live in multireligous society.4 religions.
Although I am not a Christian,I would never throw a Bible because there is a posibility that that act could offend my christian friends.I've read the Bible,I don't believe in any of that but I respect it because I respect Christians primarly as humans then as Christians.Religion isn't important,the humanity and love for humans is important.If we were a little bit less religious the world would be much better place.
I think that religion is a personal thing not public,that's the problem in most multireligious societies.


----------



## ireney

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Of course you may. I just can't the any point for wasting my time in reading atheist pamphletes - they won't shake my faith anyway.


 
So, since I have read the Bible and know what it is about and there's no way on Earth it is going to make me believe that there is a God (nevermind Him being the Christian one, let's start with the basics) I should throw it away in the nearest dustbin?


----------



## Etcetera

ireney said:
			
		

> So, since I have read the Bible and know what it is about and there's no way on Earth it is going to make me believe that there is a God (nevermind Him being the Christian one, let's start with the basics) I should throw it away in the nearest dustbin?


Isn't there any difference between the Bible and a pamphlete?
The Bible is a Holy Book for millions of people. A pamphlete is a piece of paper on which something is written, and nothing more, actually.


----------



## maxiogee

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Isn't there any difference between the Bible and a pamphlete?
> The Bible is a Holy Book for millions of people. A pamphlete is a piece of paper on which something is written, and nothing more, actually.



Contentwise there may not be.
In fact, the pamphlet may well be more meaningful, in that it might contain someone's earnest beliefs - possibly those of a religious person - thought out in details and explained. The Bible is but stories upon which people's beliefs are based, but stories nonetheless. The Bible in itself is not a statement of anyone's beliefs. It used to be claimed by many to be totally and explicitly accurate in every detail - in the way that the Koran is - because it was the words of (a) God inspired into the various authors. One doesn't hear much nowadays about it being accurate in every respect, it's all "allegory", "open to interpretation" and similar phrases.
People's rational and explained beliefs would carry more weight with me than things believed because they were inculcated when young.

Young children chant their multiplication tables incessantly until they remember them, but many have no idea what 12x12=144 actually represents until they get older, and look into numbers in detail, seeing for themselves and no longer just accepting the teacher's assertions. Beliefs are similar, they need to be inspected and pulled apart to see what foundation there is for them.


----------



## alc112

I didn't read the whole thread (it's very long) but this is my answer:
I'm Catholic but I do not practise the religion and don't believe a God exists (i won't say why first because it would be difficult for me to say them in english and second I don't want to tell them).
Here in Argentina it's absolutely imposible that someone you don't know give you a bible as a present in a bus. But if that happened, I would just say I don't want it. And I'm not capable of throwing a bible. I respect everyone's beliefs.



			
				Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> In this day and age, there are so many people who are nominal Catholics/Christians, i.e., they may have been brought up or were born as such but they don't practice the religion, hence nominal or Catholics/Christians in name but not in deed.


 That's my case.

Regards


----------



## maxiogee

alc112 said:
			
		

> I'm Catholic but I do not practise the religion and don't believe a God exists (i won't say why first because it would be difficult for me to say them in english and second I don't want to tell them).



Without asking you to explain what you wish to keep secret, surely it is *the* single, all-important fundamental belief of Christianity that there *is* a God. To call yourself a Catholic and not believe that is like saying that someone with no feet takes a size 9 shoe - it is impossible to conceptualise.


----------



## emma42

Maxiogee post #109. Although I agree with everything you say, that is not the point.  The point is would you care nothing if you offended good people (never mind the bad, they can stew in their own juice) by throwing away a book which means very much to them.  I would care.


----------



## maxiogee

I don't see how my actions, with a personal copy of something which holds no meaning for me, hold any concern for other people.

And you might profit from going back and reading post #2 and reading my stated opinions, and not extrapolating from my debating.


----------



## ireney

Etcetera, do then people who don't believe have to resort to the oxymoron of amassing the reasons why they don't believe in a book and call it Holy so as to make people treat their world view regarding religion with the same respect they seem to treat religious beliefs?

Mind you, I personally would not find you throwing the said pampleet in a dustbin insulting, just because I am used to people treating the 'set of beliefs' of non-believers as trash


----------



## Etcetera

I wonder if atheists treat their pamphlets with the same respect as Christians treat the Bible.


----------



## Honour

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International. In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion. If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you; would you toss it to the garbage bin? On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


 
Depending on my mood at that time, i would either refuse to have one or take and read it some other time. Reading is always harmless and many times very beneficial as long as people can command their comments on what they have read.
Something which i am sure (as a peson believing in god) it is quite rude to throw a holy book to the garbage bin. I wouldn't want to offend people.


----------



## Poetic Device

You know, I was talking to my husband about this (yet again) and he brought up a very good point. It really all depends on how the givers approach is. If they are nice about it and respectful then I would be inclined to read it or at the least accept it. If the person was pushy and did not take no for an answer, I would not throw it out as much as I would throw it back at them.


----------



## .   1

Etcetera said:
			
		

> I wonder if atheists treat their pamphlets with the same respect as Christians treat the Bible.


I did not know that athiests bothered with pamphlets.  Some religious people pass out books and stuff because their Supreme Being told them to do so.
Who would tell an athiest to do anything on a religious level and what would be the point?

.,,
I just learned something I did not think that I did not know.


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## ireney

Well *.,,* it's a theoretical discussion anyway. Someone posted a "what if" choosing to say that the atheists would give away pamphlets and not books (they wouldn't do either unless they were some sort of fanatics, giving to their beliefs the fervour of a religion).

So, hypothetically speaking, some would throw them away since they wouldn't be held sacred by any group and thus are -for them-  to be shown less respect than those writings that refer to what is divine wisdom/rules/guidenlines and others wouldn't, according them the same rights (I wonder if this expression is good English but at 4:40 in the morning who cares anyway) with the Holy books of 'recognised' and 'unrecognised'  religions.


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## Poetic Device

ireney said:
			
		

> Well *.,,* it's a theoretical discussion anyway. Someone posted a "what if" choosing to say that the atheists would give away pamphlets and not books (they wouldn't do either unless they were some sort of fanatics, giving to their beliefs the fervour of a religion).
> 
> So, hypothetically speaking, some would throw them away since they wouldn't be held sacred by any group and thus are -for them- to be shown less respect than those writings that refer to what is divine wisdom/rules/guidenlines and others wouldn't, according them the same rights (I wonder if this expression is good English but at 4:40 in the morning who cares anyway) with the Holy books of 'recognised' and 'unrecognised' religions.


 
I see your point.  I asked about the aitheist pamplets because I was talking to people about ways of life and religions (and now that I think about it again I have another scenario).  I was thinking of aethiesm as I think about Buddihsm (sp).  (NOTE:  I AM NOT SAYING THERE IS ANYTHING BELIEF WISE SIMILAIR BETWEEN THE TWO.  I AM NOT ATTACKING EITHER ONE!  IT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.  Thank you for understanding and not beating me to a bloody pulp.  Would you like a cookie? )  Buddihsm was explained to me to be more of a way of life rather than a religion.  (By the way, please correct me if I am mistaken.  I am here to learn.)  However, I am almost certain that they have sacred or otherwise holy books and/or scriptures.  Am I making any sense, or should I just go back to my happy place?


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## deGerlaise

Over the course of years, I have ended up with 2 Mormon bibles (The Book of Mormon). I'm not at all interested in their contents, but don't wish to pitch them or put them in the recycling. I keep waiting for a couple of their missionaries to show up so I can give them back. In general I don't like throwing out any kind of book. I always figure that there's someone, somewhere who could make use of it. Throwing the holy book of any religion into the garbage seems like an affront though probably they would never, ever know of the action. Just a personal standard.


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## Poetic Device

Couldn't one give the unwated books to the Salvation Army or another form of charity instead of tossing them?


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## water

hello,

I wouldnt throw a bible though. I'd keep it for future reference. If it was a Quran, I wouldnt throw it as it doesnt hurt to have more than one (or 2, or 5, like me )



			
				fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Do you mean that only a person who has washed their hands can touch a Qur'an? Or that only someone who has undergone a religous hand-cleansing ritual may touch the Qur'an? I am just as confused as GenJen because these two statements sound contradictory, from the point of view of an outsider.


 
I think what he means is basically this. To a muslim, the Quran is holy. Thus, before touching it, one must be clean and perform wudu. However, if you were given out an english-only translation of the Quran, then you dont need to perform wudu as that is not the Quran. It is only a translation/interpretation. (only the arabic one is the true Quran.)

The reason why he said that it might be a fake is because there are fake ones from mischievious people (even on the internet). So you must be careful and get it from a reputable islamic book store. If not, you can get it from the internet. I know of an excellent site that offers 3 translations at once. Even so, for some verses, one needs to get a tasfir which basically tells you when it was revealed and under what circumstances/context it is to be applied, etc. 

ps: Wudu is ablution which consists of a series of actions (wash hands, then mouth, etc...) that should take no more than a minute or two.


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## southerngal

My view is that a Holy book is a highly personal item and should only be given to someone who you know will treat it with respect.

What I do not respect is proselytizing.  If someone makes the crude gesture of forcing Holy books upon people in the street, I will simply say "no thank you."  If the person absolutely insists, then I feel that the book must not be that important, because forcing a book or pamphlet on someone will always carry the possibility that the person will throw away the item or burn it.  I would not purposely throw it away, but if I've said no thank you, and the person insists on giving it to me anyway (this has never happened, by the way), it isn't my responsibility if the book hits the ground.  If that happened, and the proselytizer refused to pick it up, I'd probably pick it up and throw it away just as I would any trash.


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## stephyjh

I don't think I'd throw any book away. That being said, I doubt if I'd necessarily accept religious writings from a stranger.
For example, as a Catholic, there are certain translations of the Bible that are accepted as valid, and some that are not. The King James Version, new or old, is no use to me. So if I could avoid accepting it, I would. But if there was no way to politely refuse it I'd most likely do what I usually do, which is to donate it to my local library for their annual book sale.


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## Poetic Device

This was not on the street, but it sort of has to do with this topic. While in the hospital a priest asked me if I wanted to have a Catholic blessing placed upon Savanna. When I explained to him that my husband and I were from a sect of Judiasm, he tried to persuade us by saying that we were damning our child to hell if we brought her up Jewish.  That's an example of when I would throw something out.


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## Chazzwozzer

I'd discard a hooray-for-creationism kind of book, but not a whole Bible or any other so-called sacred books.

I wouldn't and didn't throw away a piece of paper saying _God loves you, _either. I was given one in the Hague, which is the only souvenir I've got from Binnenhof. I'm happy to keep it.


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## fenixpollo

Thank you, water, for taking the time to read so many posts and for replying to my question. I appreciate it. 


			
				southerngal said:
			
		

> What I do not respect is proselytizing.


 Hear, hear. 





			
				Poetic Device said:
			
		

> That's an example of when I would throw something out.


 Worse than proselytizing is judging and condemning. 

While I agree, to an extent, with the posters who say that books should be respected, and that it would be rude to throw away a gift in front of the person who gave it to you; anyone who gave a holy book as a gift better know that the person who receives it would welcome it. 

If you know me, you know that I don't read holy books for leisure reading. If you give me one, you either don't care enough to really get to know what I like, or you understand that the holy book will end up as a doorstop or left at a bus stop or thrown in the garbage or donated to a charity.


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## maxiogee

Poetic Device said:
			
		

> This was not on the street, but it sort of has to do with this topic. While in the hospital a priest asked me if I wanted to have a Catholic blessing placed upon Savanna. When I explained to him that my husband and I were from a sect of Judiasm, he tried to persuade us by saying that we were damning our child to hell if we brought her up Jewish.  That's an example of when I would throw something out.



Never mind the Bible, the _priest_ should have been thrown! I would report him to both the hospital authorities and to the diocesan authorities and/or whichever religious order he belongs to.


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## stephyjh

Not only was that priest's behavior rude, it's against the Catholic church's doctrine! It would be arrogant for mortal man to decide who goes to heaven or hell. That's not our place. The ultimate decision is God's, but the advantage of living according to our beliefs is that we believe we are promised that we are saved if we live our faith. But it's not ours to say that God can't choose to save whomever he wants to save. I'd definitely have reported him to the diocese. If he doesn't have down the basics of loving his neighbor, he's not living his faith, and maybe his own feet should be feeling a bit warmish.


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## .   1

stephyjh said:
			
		

> Not only was that priest's behavior rude, it's against the Catholic church's doctrine! It would be arrogant for mortal man to decide who goes to heaven or hell. That's not our place. The ultimate decision is God's, but the advantage of living according to our beliefs is that we believe we are promised that we are saved if we live our faith. But it's not ours to say that God can't choose to save whomever he wants to save. I'd definitely have reported him to the diocese. If he doesn't have down the basics of loving his neighbor, he's not living his faith, and maybe his own feet should be feeling a bit warmish.


Everybody is entitled to a bad day or two but this behaviour is beyond the pale.  It is this type of mean spirited judgemental action that turns people against religion in general.  The whole holier-than-thou attitude.  If that priest believes what he said he must be experiencing enormous uncertainty as the moment for his heart to be weighed approaches.

Not all god botherers are pure of heart.

.,,


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## fenixpollo

stephyjh said:
			
		

> The ultimate decision is God's, but the advantage of living according to our beliefs is that we believe we are promised that we are saved if we live our faith.


 But by definition, anyone who does not live by your beliefs is NOT saved (unless God makes an exception). Therefore, the priest was just expressing a logical extension of that argument... as do people who hand out Bibles in their prosyletization.


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## Freyja

I would not accept a Bible or Qur'aan.  I've seen the Bibles they give away and they're tiny.  If I want to read the Bible, I'm not going to strain my brain trying to read that tiny print.  I am interested in reading the Qur'aan, but after reading this thread, would not accept one on the street.  Before reading this thread I wouldn't have accepted one because I would have wondered if it, like the New Testament only Bibles the Christians give away, was incomplete.

If someone left a copy of each in my mailbox I would likely donate them or leave them in a public place for someone who was interested to find.  I don't like to throw away any book and certainly not one that means so much to so many.


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## la coccinelle

I am a Christian, but if I were on the street I would much more likely accept a book from another faith than a Bible. I am fascinated in the study and comparison of different religions, and I strongly believe there is truth to be found in any one of them. Receiving material from someone of another faith is a terrific learning opportunity--you shouldn't waste it by throwing the book away. (Just keep in mind not to judge entire religious groups based on what you read--often there are many variations within denominations.)


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## Poetic Device

My friend, who is of Jewish faith, just recieved The Book of Mormons for her birthday gift!  I know how she handled it but how would you have handled it?


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## Kajjo

emma42 said:


> Does this sort of offer happen much in forer@s countries?  Is it a big city thing?I have never been offered a holy book, but have been offered religious pamphlets, which I sometimes decline, depending on mood.


I have been offered a "Book Mormon" once in London, but in Germany offering holy books is rare. It never happened to me, yet. Religious pamphlets are only distributed by Jehova's witnesses. Otherwise, Germany is a calm country regarding proselytising. Fortunately.

To the title question: I do not see any point in keeping or not binning so-called holy books in any other way than normal books. All this holy stuff is just in the mind of people. However, generally I am fond of books and do not like binning them. Out of curiosity, I would probably keep a quran copy.

Kajjo


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## fenixpollo

A slight correction, PD:





Poetic Device said:


> My friend, who is of Jewish faith, just recieved The Book of *Mormon* for her birthday gift! I know how she handled it but how would you have handled it?


Who was it who gave it to her? Does this person know her? Is it a friend or a coworker?  





fenixpollo said:


> If you know me, you know that I don't read holy books for leisure reading. If you give me one, you either don't care enough to really get to know what I like, or you understand that the holy book will end up as a doorstop or left at a bus stop or thrown in the garbage or donated to a charity.


 Either way, the result will be twofold: the person giving me the book will have wasted trees, and will have damaged my trust in that person.

What would I do? Probably avoid the temptation to throw it in their face. Instead, I'd politely thank them for the gift and dispose of it later.


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## spakh

Cracker Jack said:


> In this day and age, there are so many people who are nominal Catholics/Christians, i.e., they may have been brought up or were born as such but they don't practice the religion, hence nominal or Catholics/Christians in name but not in deed.
> 
> There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International. In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion. If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you; would you toss it to the garbage bin? On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


 
Being a Muslim, I don't have a Qoran (neither Turkish version nor in Arabic). But I've a bible and strangely enough I got it from a friend of mine while he was thinking about throwing it away. He had got it from a church and he would have thrown it if I hadn't prostested and taken the book.
If I were offered a Qoran, I would take it. However I was offered a bible when I visited a church and didn't take it as I had one.
So throwing a book away unless it is extremely useless doesn't appeal to me.


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## Poetic Device

fenixpollo said:


> A slight correction, PD:Who was it who gave it to her? Does this person know her? Is it a friend or a coworker? Either way, the result will be twofold: the person giving me the book will have wasted trees, and will have damaged my trust in that person.
> 
> What would I do? Probably avoid the temptation to throw it in their face. Instead, I'd politely thank them for the gift and dispose of it later.


 

It was a member of the family.  Let's just leave it at that.


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## Luke Warm

Kajjo said:


> I have been offered a "Book Mormon" once in London, but in Germany offering holy books is rare. It never happened to me, yet. Religious pamphlets are only distributed by Jehova's witnesses. Otherwise, Germany is a calm country regarding proselytising. Fortunately.
> Kajjo


 
Over the past few years, I've seen more and more American bible thumpers proselytizing here in Germany, usually during the summer in a large group on the main shopping street.  They sing songs, hold banners, and pass out pamphlets.  As a fellow American, I find it incredibly sickening and embarassing.  I may not throw out a bible, but given the chance, I'd throw those people onto the airplane back home to the US.


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## Cian87

When I was 12, the Gideons came to my school and handed out copies of the new testament to everyone in my year. They used to do this every year, I'm not sure if they still do. Anyway, we were not given the option of saying 'no thank you' (this would have led to detention from the teachers I've no doubt).  So of course within twenty minutes, the school was littered with unwanted bibles all over the floor. I tried to sell mine (and failed) but most of the 120 pupils just dropped them on the floor, binned them or threw them at each other.

As it happens I still have mine, and I may read it at some point (although I have a lot more interesting and relevant books to get through first).

But my point is that this type of proselytizing does no 'good'. Religion cannot be forced upon people older than a certain age. However, presenting it as an option is, I think, more what these Gideons were doing. Is that any different? And if so is it any less objectionable?

Sorry that this post is longer than I intended:S

Cxx


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## Qcumber

In 1968 I was given Mao's little red book printed on Bible paper and nicely bound. I didn't keep it because the contents was very poor. I was once offered to have Col. Khaddafi little green book. I politely refused. I keep several versions of the Christian Bible in various languages and the Qur2aan because I need them for linguistic quotations, although their religious value is doubtful to me. Only Buddhism sounds genuine to me. As regards its sacred texts, they are just texts. If a sacred book is rare, precious, calligraphic, etc. of course one should keep it. If the book is in very bad condition and not rare, the best is to dispose it or burn it, and buy a brand new copy. I don't understand people who scoff at idols and worship books.


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## Maja

Poetic Device said:


> Also, as far as burning them goes (because I think that I remember someone writing that in the begining of this thread), isn't that just as disrespectful?


To the best of my knowledge, no it is not disrespectful. I think that  actually the only "acceptable" way of disposing "blessed items" (like incense  etc.) bought in a church is to burn them and throw away the ashes at some  "clean" site (not a dustbin)!


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## Maja

Well, firstly, I was never offered any book "free of charge" (apart from Jehovah's witnesses) because that is not really a customary thing in my country. But, at the risk of sounding "judgmental", "biased" and even "bigoted", if I was offered a Koran, I would probable not accept it (although it largely depends on a situations, as it always does). 
Nor would I accepted any other books of the various teachings from acknowledged monotheistic religions (other than my own), or sects, self-proclaimed prophets, new age "thingy"... 

When I am offered a pamphlet on a street (mainly commercials or political propaganda from numerous political parties), I usually take it (because I know that people who are distributing them are usually paid per number of distributed items), and I throw it away later (although I feel very bad because of the trees).

 However, throwing books away is absolutely out of the question!!! I NEVER threw a book, not even my old textbooks (and they are dangerously outdated!). 
 So NO I would never threw a book that found it's way into my hands.


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## ps139

Cracker Jack said:


> In this day and age, there are so many people who are nominal Catholics/Christians, i.e., they may have been brought up or were born as such but they don't practice the religion, hence nominal or Catholics/Christians in name but not in deed.
> 
> There are some entities tasked with distributing Bibles and evangelization such as The Gideons International. In view of this, I would like to ask your opinion. If you are a Muslim or a non-practising Christian and you receive a copy of the Bible being handed-out near bus or metro stations, and sensing that it will be of no use to you; would you toss it to the garbage bin? On the other hand, if you were a Christian and someone gives you a copy of the Koran, would you accept and later on dispose of it as garbage?
> 
> Thanks a lot.



I am a Christian so it is pretty obvious I would never throw away a Bible. If someone handed me a Koran, I would thank them for it (say what you want, but proselytizers/missionaries have a really tough job full of rejection usually for no pay) and I would read it. Even if I did not want to read it, I would never throw it away, out of respect for what they hold sacred. Just as I would hope they do the same for me. If I did not want it at my house for whatever reason, I'd give it away or sell it.


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## ps139

fenixpollo said:


> But by definition, anyone who does not live by your beliefs is NOT saved (unless God makes an exception). Therefore, the priest was just expressing a logical extension of that argument... as do people who hand out Bibles in their prosyletization.


Not true. Steph is right in what she said. I would be happy to explain this to you in PM if you want - not here though as that would be too off topic.


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## Hutschi

Hi,

I bought a bible when I was 18 years old and a Qur'an when I was about 20. I was just interested in the contents. I do not believe in god - except that god and the universe are the same. But I respect the religions now. (As pupil, I learnt in school, that religion is opium for the people and non-scientific.) 
Unfortunately, I threw away the school books describing the other religions, for example Roman gods and Germanic religions. But this was when I was very young. 
I avoid to throw away books.
On the street, I accepted some books about Hinduism and Buddha after the unification of Germany.
It is very interesting to compare the religions. 
They all give rules for living together and try to answer questions about the sense of life.

After the unification of Germany, many people threw away almost all their books, and the book shops trashed almost all printed in the GDR. I think, this included Bibles and other religios books, too. They just made place for changes. 

So did libraries.

We had a lot of libraries in factories, and they broke down together with the plants. I suppose (or know) that a lot of the books were trashed. 

When somebody died, the heirs removed the contents of the flats, including the books, and I saw bibles in the trash. 

And it is not possible for me to change the world to keep the books.

My own copy of the Koran I lent to somebody who was interested in it, but did not get it back.

I think, it is essential to respect the believes of other people, at least as long they do not harm, for example by burning non-believers, as it was done in Germany centuries ago.


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## Poetic Device

Maja said:


> To the best of my knowledge, no it is not disrespectful. I think that actually the only "acceptable" way of disposing "blessed items" (like incense etc.) bought in a church is to burn them and throw away the ashes at some "clean" site (not a dustbin)!


 
Not to get off topic, but I just want to make sure that I understand.  Is this similair as the ceramony to retire a flag?


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## Hutschi

Throw away in Germany does not really mean "throw away", but bring to the recycling box for paper. They will produce new books from the old ones. This is a kind of re-incarnation of the books. (When I said "Trash", I meant "recycling" in the most of the cases.) When a book is damaged, I would bring it there in some cases. Other ways are to bring them to shops for reselling books. I did not do this with Bibles, but if I had too many of them, I could think about it. Another way would be to spend to libraries.

Burning books would be the worst of the ideas in Germany. The Nazis burnt books in 1933. This should never happen again.


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## .   1

Thanks Hutschi,
You have solved my theoretical problem.
For some weird reason I did not think of recycling the unwanted Bible.
Perfect.

.,,


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## tyrian

Qcumber said:


> I don't understand people who scoff at idols and worship books.



I think that's me...


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