# Cantonese: Times Square



## misskil

Hi everybody,
I`m translating an Englisch text where the author (Chinese-American from Hongkong) says that "Tay Um See Arena" is the Cantonese word for "Times Square" in New York.
She also says that "Yea-loo" is the Cantonese pronounciation for Yale (the university). Can anybody confirm that?
Thanks for any help!
Reni


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## Ghabi

Welcome to the Forum, Reni. We don't use the transliteration "Tay Um See" 泰晤士 for the square. In HK, 泰晤士 is used for the River Thames ("Tay Um See Ho" 泰晤士河), as well as the UK newspaper _The Times_ ("Tay Um See Po" 泰晤士報). This is quite confusing, you see. For the square in NY, we say 紐約時代廣場 "New York Age [i.e. Times] Square", to distinguish it from the namesake shopping mall in Hong Kong.


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## misskil

Hi Ghabi,
Thanks for your answer.
So what would be the transliteration for "New York Age Square"? (Sorry, I can`t read the Cantonese characters)
Reni


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## GamblingCamel

I knew you'd show up, GHabi.  In the meantime, I had scrambled for 30 minutes, trying to come up with an answer.
Your post is in quadruple color!! LOL > This is obviously a difficult linguistic problem. 

Misskill >> This is the Hong Kong Times Square mall.

紐約 are characters representing the CHinese pronunciation of "New York":  nau5 joek3 in Cantonese; niu3 yue1 in Mandarin.    
時代 = Time/era/generation 廣場 = open space/plaza/square

According to Ghabi, the Cantonese word in Hong Kong for NYC Times Square sounds nothing like "Tay Um See". 
Is the author of the text, Jean Kwok, a Chinese American? Or from Southeast Asia?  
It's possible that Chinese immigrants to the US use the English word "Times", but they pronounce it with a Chinese accent that makes it sound like "Tay Um See". 
Also, the author may be improvising with spelling.

I presume that "Times Square" is a very recognized word in Germany. Thus, couldn't you just stay faithful to the original writer's "Tay Um See" since a reader can easily see that it refers to "Ti-m-es"?

However, "Arena" is much trickier to deal with. It has no pronuciation link to "Square." 
Maybe, it's a Chinese-American word derived from sports "arena" (referring to large theaters, Madison Square Garden, which is nearby).  
One could break up "Square" into something like "See Kay Ro", but that would probably sound ridiculous to anybody who speaks Cantonese.

_______________

In Cantonese Yale = 耶魯. 
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/ transcribes it as _je4 lou5 _.  In Mandarin pinyin, I see it as _ye1 lu3_ 

I'm sure there's a fairly standard manner of spelling the Cantonese pronunciation of YALE, given the university's historical connection to China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Romanization#Cantonese
"Unlike the Mandarin Yale romanization, Cantonese Yale is still widely used in books and dictionaries for Cantonese, especially for foreign learners." 

I quickly glanced at the Yale Romanization transcription chart, and I don't even see an "R" sound -- as in "arena".


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## GamblingCamel

misskil said:


> So what would be the transliteration for "New York Age Square"? (Sorry, I can`t read the Cantonese characters)
> Reni



nau5 joek3 si4 doi6  gwong2 coeng4


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## Ghabi

misskil said:


> So what would be the transliteration for "New York Age Square"?


In German you may write Nau Jök [New York] Sie Teu [Times] Quong Zöng [Square].


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## GamblingCamel

Ghabi said:


> In German you may write Nau Jök [New York] Sie Teu [Times] Quong Zöng [Square].


Does that conform to a specific transliteration style?
I used the Cantonese.sheik dictionary. They're different, obviously.


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## Ghabi

GamblingCamel said:


> Does that conform to a specific transliteration style?


No ... I just made it up according to the Cantonese pronunciation and the German orthography.


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## GamblingCamel

Ghabi said:


> No ... I just made it up according to the Cantonese pronunciation and the German orthography.


ROFL, Herr Erfinder !!

You should invent a wind-up toy that changes its pronunciation to match every language in the world.


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## GamblingCamel

Reni >> 
Jean Kwok's novel is titled "Girl in Translation." As a 1st generation CHinese-American, she's obviously thought a great deal about how CHinese-Americans interact with the ENglish language. I'm sure that "Tay Um See Arena" for Times Square was a very deliberate stylistic choice.

I think you should email her and ask for advice. If you want, I'll telephone her. I'm in NYC. 

EDIT: She came to Brooklyn from HK at age 5, so technically JK is not 1st generation. But when you come to the States at such a young age, in terms of schooling, peer culture etc., you're an AMerican. And yet ... in some respects, you're not (I guess that's the reason for the title).


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## misskil

Thank you guys, you were of great help.
I`m quite convinced by what GamblingCamel said about "Tay Um See Arena" being a deliberate choice, so I´ll probably leave it like that.
And thank you Ghabi for your very creative German transliteration. (So you speak Englisch, Cantones AND German ... quite impressive). It inspired me a lot.
Reni


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## GamblingCamel

A light just went off in my head.
In NYC we do say, "The Times Square Area".
So maybe ARENA = AREA, as pronounced by Chinese immigrants in the USA.


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## JeanKwok

GamblingCamel said:


> I knew you'd show up, GHabi.  In the meantime, I had scrambled for 30 minutes, trying to come up with an answer.
> Your post is in quadruple color!! LOL > This is obviously a difficult linguistic problem.
> 
> Misskill >> This is the Hong Kong
> 
> 紐約 are characters representing the CHinese pronunciation of "New York":  nau5 joek3 in Cantonese; niu3 yue1 in Mandarin.
> 時代 = Time/era/generation 廣場 = open space/plaza/square
> 
> According to Ghabi, the Cantonese word in Hong Kong for NYC Times Square sounds nothing like "Tay Um See".
> Is the author of the text, Jean Kwok, a Chinese American? Or from Southeast Asia?
> It's possible that Chinese immigrants to the US use the English word "Times", but they pronounce it with a Chinese accent that makes it sound like "Tay Um See".
> Also, the author may be improvising with spelling.
> 
> I presume that "Times Square" is a very recognized word in Germany. Thus, couldn't you just stay faithful to the original writer's "Tay Um See" since a reader can easily see that it refers to "Ti-m-es"?
> 
> However, "Arena" is much trickier to deal with. It has no pronuciation link to "Square."
> Maybe, it's a Chinese-American word derived from sports "arena" (referring to large theaters, Madison Square Garden, which is nearby).
> One could break up "Square" into something like "See Kay Ro", but that would probably sound ridiculous to anybody who speaks Cantonese.
> 
> _______________
> 
> In Cantonese Yale = 耶魯.
> 
> 
> I'm sure there's a fairly standard manner of spelling the Cantonese pronunciation of YALE, given the university's historical connection to China.
> 
> "Unlike the Mandarin Yale romanization, Cantonese Yale is still widely used in books and dictionaries for Cantonese, especially for foreign learners."
> 
> I quickly glanced at the Yale Romanization transcription chart, and I don't even see an "R" sound -- as in "arena".



Hi Everyone, 

I happened to see this thread in my Google Alert and wanted to say that if I were a gambler, my money would be on Gambling Camel.  Excellent and accurate response regarding Times Square, and Yeah-lo is indeed also much the same, the way Chinese Cantonese-speaking immigrants would change the English name into Chinese sounds.  I'm also impressed that my novel was instantly recognized from the initial question.  Much thanks to all of you for your knowledgeable discussion!

Best,
Jean

P.S. I'm sorry, I had to delete the URLs from Gambling Camel's quote because I'm a new member and it won't allow me to post URLs.


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## JeanKwok

And just a note, the Arena comes from the reference to large theaters, indeed like Madison Square Garden, and not from the word Area.


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## GamblingCamel

JeanKwok said:


> And just a note, the Arena comes from the reference to large theaters, indeed like Madison Square Garden, and not from the word Area.


LOL. I didn't have to make a telephone call or send an email. 
All I had to do was type the name JEAN KWOK inside a WORD REFERENCE message box  ... and you're here.  Poof!! Like magic!! Like a genie!!


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## JeanKwok

I know, the wonders of the modern world!  I don't manage to see everything where I'm mentioned but I found this thread intriguing, might even post a link to it on my Facebook fan page.

Someday, Gambling Camel, I want to hear the story behind the gambling camel.


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