# 稀里糊涂/糊里糊涂



## luxiaxin

大家好！

1.稀里糊涂/糊里糊涂，它们有区别吗？
2.稀，里是什么意思？These are words _not_ _found_ _in_ most _dictionaries_.


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## 禅性智

Almost the same！Most of the time the two idioms are interchangeable. Sometimes they are slightly different in emphasis:
稀里糊涂 is more often used to describe a temporary stupidity or absent-mindedness, such as someone being cheated without knowing or answering a question without thinking.
When you want to describe someone who is always stupid or habitually absent-minded, 糊里糊涂 is preferable to 稀里糊涂.
稀 means very, much 里 perhaps an auxiliary word which has no specific meaning.


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## SuperXW

禅性智 said:


> 稀 means very, much


稀里糊涂 糊里糊涂 are both fixed idioms nowadays. People use the whole idiom without discussing each character's meaning.
There could be some origin, but I never heard 稀 had the meaning of "very, much".


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## 禅性智

SuperXW said:


> 稀里糊涂 糊里糊涂 are both fixed idioms nowadays. People use the whole idiom without discussing each character's meaning.
> There could be some origin, but I never heard 稀 had the meaning of "very, much".


床上的铺盖已经掀得稀乱,一个凳子躺在被铺上。——鲁迅《而已集·再谈香港》


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## SuperXW

禅性智 said:


> 床上的铺盖已经掀得稀乱,一个凳子躺在被铺上。——鲁迅《而已集·再谈香港》


I didn't think of that. The meaning is indeed included in a dictionary. Thank you.
_很;极。形容程度深 [very]
床上的铺盖已经掀得稀乱，一个凳子躺在被铺上。——鲁迅《而已集·再谈香港》
又如:稀不相干(一点儿也不相干);稀秃湿(湿透了);稀醉(烂醉)_

However, 稀 has clear limitations as the dictionary also says:
_用在“烂”、“松”等形容词前面，表明程度深：～烂。～碎。～松。_
We cannot use it with most common adjectives, i.e., we can't say 稀好, 稀坏...
So I suspect 稀 "very" still has connection with its original meaning "scarce, scattered, sparse, diluted".
Then we can easily understand 稀烂, 稀碎, 稀松, 稀不相干.


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## SimonTsai

'稀里糊塗' isn't a common word in my experience.


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## Skatinginbc

1.  裡  = adjectival or adverbial marker (猶 "的" or "地") 
元．劉庭信《寨兒令》積裡漸裡 (= 慢慢累積地、逐漸地)
妖裡妖氣 ==> "妖異" 那種方式的 "妖氣"。形容裝扮奇特，舉止輕佻.
寶裡寶氣 ==> "耍寶" 那種方式的 "寶氣"。形容言行詼諧、逗趣。
花裡胡哨 ==> 花般的 (= 花樣繁多的) 或 "花巧" 那種方式的 "胡哨" (= 召引信號); 形容色紛浮華, 花俏不實.
稀裡糊塗 ==> "稀" (= "依稀"的"稀"; 隱約、馬虎、不清楚) 那種方式地糊塗.

2. 裡 = 無義中綴 (meaningless infix) 
懵 (裡懵) 懂 = 懵懵懂懂
骯 (裡骯) 髒 = 骯骯髒髒
囉 (裡囉) 嗦 = 囉囉嗦嗦
嘮 (裡嘮) 叨 = 嘮嘮叨叨
糊 (裡糊) 塗 = 糊糊塗塗



luxiaxin said:


> 稀里糊涂/糊里糊涂，它们有区别吗？


稀裡糊塗: 依稀含糊、隨便輕率、馬馬虎虎。
糊裡糊塗: 形容行事迷糊、思想模糊不清的狀態。


luxiaxin said:


> 稀是什么意思？


mushy (sloppy "稀拉隨便" 的 "稀"), indistinct (faint "依稀隱約" 的 "稀")


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 稀裡糊塗: 依稀含糊、隨便輕率、馬馬虎虎。
> 糊裡糊塗: 形容行事迷糊、思想模糊不清的狀態。


我觉得只是字典分别做了两条解释，实际上这两条解释也是可以互换的 ，没有分别。


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## Skatinginbc

稀裡糊塗自殺了 = 隨隨便便自殺了 (輕生)
糊裡糊塗自殺了 = 頭腦不清犯傻自殺了 (想不開)
稀裡糊塗自殺了 = 糊裡糊塗自殺了 = 不明不白自殺了 (懸案一樁)


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 稀裡糊塗自殺了 = 隨隨便便自殺了 (輕生)
> 糊裡糊塗自殺了 = 頭腦不清犯傻自殺了 (想不開)
> 稀裡糊塗自殺了 = 糊裡糊塗自殺了 = 不明不白自殺了 (懸案一樁)


什么意思……到底是=？还是≠？每一种说法都变出两个意思……？


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## Skatinginbc

稀裡糊塗是糊塗，糊裡糊塗也是糊塗, 兩者都是糊塗, 故有交集可以互換之處. 然而, 稀裡糊塗是 "稀" 那種方式的糊塗, 糊裡糊塗是糊糊塗塗那樣的糊塗, 兩者有異, 故亦有不能互換之處.

1. 可互換之處 (稀裡糊塗 = 糊裡糊塗): 模糊不清, 不明不白, 迷迷糊糊.
大陸網絡劇《御賜小仵作》中有數人突然變得神志不清, 迷迷糊糊, 稀裡糊塗/糊裡糊塗 (= 不明不白)就自殺了, 成為懸案一樁.

2. 不可互換之處 (稀裡糊塗 ≠ 糊裡糊塗):
稀裡糊塗自殺了 (輕生, 隨隨便便自殺了) ≠ 糊裡糊塗自殺了 (想不開, 犯傻自殺了).


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 稀裡糊塗是糊塗，糊裡糊塗也是糊塗, 兩者都是糊塗, 故有交集可以互換之處. 然而, 稀裡糊塗是 "稀" 那種方式的糊塗, 糊裡糊塗是糊糊塗塗那樣的糊塗, 兩者有異, 故亦有不能互換之處.
> 
> 1. 可互換之處 (稀裡糊塗 = 糊裡糊塗): 模糊不清, 不明不白, 迷迷糊糊.
> 大陸網絡劇《御賜小仵作》中有數人突然變得神志不清, 迷迷糊糊, 稀裡糊塗/糊裡糊塗 (= 不明不白)就自殺了, 成為懸案一樁.
> 
> 2. 不可互換之處 (稀裡糊塗 ≠ 糊裡糊塗):
> 稀裡糊塗自殺了 (輕生, 隨隨便便自殺了) ≠ 糊裡糊塗自殺了 (想不開, 犯傻自殺了).


你的意思就是说这两个词有歧义？语境都一样，如何判断是可互换还是不可互换？
而且你去采访母语人士，盖住选项让他们猜，我不信你列出的“不可互换”的例子会得到认可……我就完全感受不到你所说的区别，你那两个不可互换的解释完全是自己的理解吧……？


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## T.D

Skatinginbc said:


> 稀裡糊塗自殺了 (輕生, 隨隨便便自殺了) ≠ 糊裡糊塗自殺了 (想不開, 犯傻自殺了).


There can be a difference but I don't think this example was helping...

稀里糊涂 sometimes means 马马虎虎应付过去, and 糊里糊涂 doesn't. 

这门课不算学分，稀里糊涂   糊里糊涂学一下就行了。


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