# sultan



## Cynastros

hi , 
think there is any relationship between the Latin < consultationa, consularia, consulous > = ύπατος - αυτοκρατ. -  High - emperor ,  and the 
 < Sultan >  ?


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## berndf

Click  (This site is always a good first stop).


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## Cynastros

Thanks berndf, but, 
Georgius Monachus Chronogr.
   9 Century
Says .. the word *sultan*, for the first time .. Τότε ο σουλτάνος εκείνος …
  accordance with the ONLINE ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY, in the word *consul*, we find again the royal power,  is there a relationship ?
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=consulate


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## Frank06

Cynastros said:


> Georgius Monachus Chronogr. 9 Century says .. the word *sultan*, for the first time .. Τότε ο σουλτάνος εκείνος …
> accordance with the ONLINE ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY, in the word *consul*, we find again the royal power, is there a relationship?


"Again the royal power?" What do you mean by 'again'? I'm sorry, but it's not the more you stretch the semantics, the more clear the "relationship" becomes.

By the way, what do you mean by "relationship" in the first place? And what possible "relationship" do you have in mind? Do the words _consul_ and _sultan_ have anything else in common but the letters s, u and l?

The Semitic origins of _sultan _have been given, the PIE roots of consul are also clear, viz. *sal.

Frank


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## Cynastros

Frank06 said:


> "Again the royal power?" What do you mean by 'again'? I'm sorry, but it's not the more you stretch the semantics, the more clear the "relationship" becomes.
> 
> By the way, what do you mean by "relationship" in the first place? And what possible "relationship" do you have in mind? Do the words _consul_ and _sultan_ have anything else in common but the letters s, u and l?
> 
> The Semitic origins of _sultan _have been given, the PIE roots of consul are also clear, viz. *sal.
> 
> Frank


 

I have no objection, reverse the question,
   What other Semitic words have the same etymology. Where can I look  ?
    (  Forgive  my ignorance  )    

The relationship between two words is the *power *.    

{ Sorry ,  I do not mean the  word  *Consul -  **πρόξενος*  ,
    in English, but the Latin version.}


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## origumi

Cynastros said:


> What other Semitic words have the same etymology.


Many words in Hebrew and Aramaic, I guess that also in other languages. Few examples (Hebrew):

shalit = ruler
shlita = control (noun)
shtaltan = imperious 
le-hashlit = to impose

Note that Hebrew "sh" = Arabic "s".


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## Cynastros

Thank you   oriqumi,
   for your contribution to the search.


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## Abu Rashid

The Semitic roots of this word go back quite far, it exists also in Akkadian: šalāṭu, with the same meaning as in Hebrew, Arabic etc. To rule, control, have authority over.


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## Masjeen

sultan comes from "sullta" which means Authority from the Arabic root.
s-l-t


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## Masjeen

Abu Rashid said:


> The Semitic roots of this word go back quite far, it exists also in Akkadian: šalāṭu, with the same meaning as in Hebrew, Arabic etc. To rule, control, have authority over.


well the Semitic languages share a single origin..


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## Abu Rashid

Masjeen said:
			
		

> well the Semitic languages share a single origin..



Correct, but it's still good to note how far back a root is attested in other Semitic languages, especially when comparing to Latin/Greek, because both of them predate Arabic records.

Many of the roots in Arabic are not attested in other Semitic languages, which could mean either they're a) Simply not attested in the other languages or b) Foreign. This is due to the fact Arabic is the most well attested of the Semitic languages. Many of those roots probably existed in Phoenician for instance, but the records we have of Phoenician are scant.


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## Faylasoof

Origumi, did you mean this, 



> ….
> _sh__t__altan_ = imperious
> …
> Note that Hebrew "sh" = Arabic "s


  Or _shaltan_ ? Because you see _this_ in the book of Daniel:

ולה יהיב שׁלטן ויקר ומלכו
(Dan 7:14)

שׁלטן _ sh-l-t-n = _سلطان _s-l-t-n_

Yes, the Hebrew "sh" => Arabic "s", as above.

Muslim / Arab philologists recognised سلطان as “foreign” and in fact we know it came into Arabic most immediately from Biblical Aramaic.


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## origumi

Faylasoof said:


> Origumi, did you mean this,
> Or _shaltan_ ? Because you see _this_ in the book of Daniel:
> 
> ולה יהיב שׁלטן ויקר ומלכו
> (Dan 7:14)
> 
> שׁלטן _sh-l-t-n = _سلطان _s-l-t-n_


Both are good (this part of Daniel is Aramaic). Sh*t*altan is of root sh-l-t, a derivative of binyan (= wazn وزن) hi*t*pa3el, which explains the additional "t". 




Faylasoof said:


> Muslim / Arab philologists recognised سلطان as “foreign” and in fact we know it came into Arabic most immediately from Biblical Aramaic.


Aramaic certainly contains words very similar to Arabic sultan, for example shultan (several times in the Aramaic Bible translation). Note that Aramaic is usually consistent with Hebrew regarding "sh" vs. Arabic "s".

Brill's IE1 agrees http://books.google.co.il/books?id=...&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false:


> The word is of frequent occurence in the Kuran, most often with the meaning of a moral or magical authority... Now it is this meaning of power or rather of governmental power which is attached to the word sultan in early centuries of Islam. The word and its meaning were undoubdetly borrowed from the Syriac shultanu, which has the meaning of power.


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## Abu Rashid

Faylasoof said:
			
		

> Muslim / Arab philologists recognised سلطان as “foreign” and in fact we know it came into Arabic most immediately from Biblical Aramaic.



Do you have a reference for that?


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## Faylasoof

origumi said:


> ….
> Brill's IE1 agrees
> Quote:
> The word is of frequent occurence in the Kuran, most often   with the meaning of a moral or magical authority... Now it is this meaning of   power or rather of governmental power which is attached to the word sultan in   early centuries of Islam. The word and its meaning were undoubdetly   borrowed from the Syriac shultanu, which has the meaning of power.


 Yes I saw this one, but thanks for it anyway! 



Abu Rashid said:


> Do you have a reference for that?


 Abu Rashid, if you need a precise reference for this (foreign borrowing of سلطان), then I’ll have to start digging because I can’t produce it from the top of my head! However, I do know that Muslim scholars of the Middle Ages like, as-Suyuti and al-Jawaliqi, and esp. the latter, worked on the foreign vocabulary of fus7a.  He even wrote a book called _Kitab al-Mu'arrab_ (_Book of Arabized words_)_._ There were others too.


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## Mahaodeh

Faylasoof said:


> Abu Rashid, if you need a precise reference for this (foreign borrowing of سلطان), then I’ll have to start digging because I can’t produce it from the top of my head! However, I do know that Muslim scholars of the Middle Ages like, as-Suyuti and al-Jawaliqi, and esp. the latter, worked on the foreign vocabulary of fus7a.  He even wrote a book called _Kitab al-Mu'arrab_ (_Book of Arabized words_)_._ There were others too.



So did aj-Jawaliqi claim that sultan is mu'arrab? and if he did, what is the basis? The claim seems strange since the word is pre-Islamic and quite rooted in the language not to mention that the form / derivation is quite Arabic too. The root has many words related to a number of close meanings. It seems to me that if the root existed in many other Semitic languages with the same or very close meaning, then it's more probably a cognate rather than one borrowing from the other.


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## origumi

According to a reference above, the word is original Arabic but changed its meaning under Aramaic influence.


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