# Je ne sais pas / Je sais pas



## Brand

Hello, 

I'm just starting to study french as a foreign language. I'm studying it in Quebec, Canada. I've noticed the locals here pronounce 'je ne sais pas' as "Chway paw" rather than "Je ne say paw"

I know combinig "Je" and "sais" makes for "Chway" when said rapidly, but the "ne" is omitted altogether. Is this common in Europe as well, or is it a Quebecism?


*Moderator notes: Several threads on the same topic were merged. *


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## francais_espanol

I imagine you're probably hearing something like: Ché po (I also learned my French in Québec)? It is the French equivalent of something like "I dunno."
I don't think francophone Europeans would pronounce the "pas" as "po" as it is pronounced in Québec. (Sorry don't know what the linguistic symbols are that denote those sounds, but I can definitely hear them in my head!)


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## go_habs_go

The "ne" is omitted in the spoken french (quebecer) only, but it is not correct. In France, they would say: "Je ne sais pas".


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## francais_espanol

go_habs_go said:


> The "ne" is omitted in the spoken french (quebecer) only, but it is not correct. In France, they would say: "Je ne sais pas".


 
Really ? I'm not sure about that. I lived in France after I lived in Québec and I found both places dropped the "ne" in casual speech.


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## go_habs_go

From my experience. every person that I've ever spoken to from France says it.


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## wildan1

_" Ché pa "_ is also what you will hear in everyday conversation in European French. _Pas_ is pronounced differently but the _" ne "_ is often dropped out completely on both sides of the pond.

_J'sais pas ; j'vais pas ; j'dirais pas_, etc.

A bit like _I wanna, I'm gonna, I dunno_, etc. It's just what people say casually...

PS _Ché pas_ is often accompanied by this


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## vanagreg

Hi,

wildan1 is right. In spoken language the "ne" is often skipped.

Note that "je" is said as "ché" only in that particular phrase (kind of mix of "je" with "sais")


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## Brand

Merci everyone!  I understand fully!

I hope in a few months I'll be able to converse with all of you in some degree of understandable French! Until then excuse my english questions.


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## Montrose

Alors, I am going to have an oral exam in a few months .. would it be acceptable for me to say _je sais pas_? or is it too chatty? 

I just want to make sure, I don't make bad habits. Thanks


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## sylber

the proper negative form is ne...pas. 
In conversation, the 'ne' is very frequently -almost always omitted.
So in the case of an oral exam, I would play it safe...unless your French is very good and the examiner is going to understand it as proof of your fluency.
Now, in reality, you will frequently *hear*: chais pas.


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## Montrose

sylber said:


> the proper negative form is ne...pas.
> In conversation, the 'ne' is very frequently -almost always omitted.
> So in the case of an oral exam, I would play it safe...unless your French is very good and the examiner is going to understand it as proof of your fluency.
> Now, in reality, you will frequently *hear*: chais pas.



is "chais pas" how it is pronounced?


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## sylber

Yes, it is a contraction and distortion of je sais pas (j'sais pas: j+s becomes ch). Don't use it during your oral exam, it doesn't sound particularly 'educated'!


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## franc 91

Try - jeunesais pas - that'll impress them.


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## wanipa

Moderator note : this post and its replies have been incorporated into a previous thread
======================================================

Either we say "Je ne sais pas", or we can say "Sais pas", right?

Is it common or correct to say "Ne sais pas"?


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## Uncle Bob

"Sais pas" (often pronounced "shais pas") in not grammatically correct but is a commonly used colloquial abbreviation.


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## c_zenii

wanipa said:


> Is it common or correct to say "Ne sais pas"?


It is definitely not correct and it is not common.

"Ne sai*t* pas" is sometimes used but extremely rare so I won't detail its usage unless you request it.


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## wanipa

Marvelous! Many thanks to you both!

1. Is it awkward if someone pronounces "sais pas" instead of "shais pas"?

2. "Ne sai*t* pas." means "He/She doesn't know", right?


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## c_zenii

wanipa said:


> 1. Is it awkward if someone pronounces "sais pas" instead of "shais pas"?


A bit because "shai" is an altered pronounciation of "j'sais" but I guess you could. In any case, it's quite familiar.



wanipa said:


> 2. "Ne sai*t* pas." means "He/She doesn't know", right?


Yes but you would use it talking about yourself.
E.g. Someone asks around me if c_zenii knows something then I could jump in and say "Ne sait pas" but as I said, it's rare.


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## Wai Ho

go_habs_go said:


> The "ne" is omitted in the spoken french (quebecer) only, but it is not correct. In France, they would say: "Je ne sais pas".



When French people are speaking, they also omit the word "ne".


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## Bezoard

As mentioned in post 10:


> Now, in reality, you will frequently *hear*: chais pas.


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## franc 91

I might be wrong, but I have the impression that this is (in France anyway) a Parisianisme, but it might surprise you to know that in Occitan, to express the negative, 'ne' isn't used, only the 'pas,' which comes after the verb, of course. That said, I doubt very much that this would have any influence on the way Parisians speak. To translate it, I use the English equivalent - dunno.


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## Kecha

I don't think it has to do with regions, pretty much everyone drops the "ne" everywhere. 

As a side note, I once had a university professor who asked the students if they thought droping "ne" was making people sound uneducated. The 300 students all agreed it did. He then mentioned he had always dropped it all semester, and none of us had noticed. 
So, although is is "spoken language", it is not _that _familiar. At this point I think not dropping it makes people sound a bit stiff.
But, as in #10, I would advise learners to keep it, lest the teacher think it is a mistake.


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## Wai Ho

Even in Quebec, "ché pas" is very rare, generally, it's "je sais pas". The normal French pronunciation of the word "pas" is "pa", but in Northern France and Quebec, it's pronounced "paw".


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## Redemption Is Come

go_habs_go said:


> The "ne" is omitted in the spoken french (quebecer) only, but it is not correct. In France, they would say: "Je ne sais pas".


No. this is not correct. In Paris, they almost always say "Je sais pas ( che se pa)" or "J'sais pas ( che pa)". "Je ne sais pas" sounds too formal


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## Louis XI

Redemption Is Come said:


> No. this is not correct. In Paris, they almost always say "Je sais pas ( che se pa)" or "J'sais pas ( che pa)". "Je ne sais pas" sounds too formal


Not only in Paris... That's pretty much what any Francophone of any age does (Je sé pas/Chsé pas/Chché pas/J'sé pas) in everyday speech.


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## Bezoard

Je suis d'accord qu'on entend généralement une formule raccourcie, mais je ne dirais pas que "je ne sais pas" semble formel.


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## Wai Ho

Redemption Is Come said:


> No. this is not correct. In Paris, they almost always say "Je sais pas ( che se pa)" or "J'sais pas ( che pa)". "Je ne sais pas" sounds too formal


"Je ne sais pas", 4 words sounds like reading a text.


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## broglet

I think it's very like the English. The normal English is either "I don't know" "I d'know" or "D'no" but if you want to be really emphatic you can say "I do not know!"


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## Reynald

Wai Ho said:


> "Je ne sais pas", 4 words sounds


Quand le _ne_ est prononcé, cela donne généralement _Je n'sais pas_ (3 syllabes).


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## Lauretess

go_habs_go said:


> The "ne" is omitted in the spoken french (quebecer) only, but it is not correct. In France, they would say: "Je ne sais pas".


I'm afraid we often hear "je sais pas" in France too, though it's not correct


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## Kecha

A professor from La Sorbonne once ask his students if they though omitting the "ne" was incorrect, and whether they would judge someone for it. The whole lecture hall thought so.

- Really? Because I omitted it the entire semester! Did you notice?

No, we had not.

Of course I don't know if he really had omitted it the whole time, but it is plausible. 

In writting, that is something else. But I don't think I could actually tell which of my relatives or colleagues say or omit the "ne" when talking. It's not something you pay attention to.


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## ScrapPaper

In Quebec, it's common to hear people say: "j'sais pas, *moi*."

Also, "ne" is sometimes dropped in written French in Quebec, mostly in literature, for example in the novels and plays of Michel Tremblay who broke new ground in the 1960s by intentionally writing in the colloquial language of the working class.

Michel Tremblay — Wikipédia
Michel Tremblay - Wikipedia


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## Wai Ho

Lauretess said:


> I'm afraid we often hear "je sais pas" in France too, though it's not correct


The grammar is actually wrong, but it's acceptable in spoken language.


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## broglet

If something is constantly being said there comes a point at which it seems inappropriate to say it is wrong, but rather that the spoken language has changed.


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## Bezoard

Je crois que les grammaires modernes ne disent pas que c'est incorrect à l'oral ; elles notent que la norme à l'oral est différente de la norme à l'écrit. Cela dit, l'oral finira par influencer l'écrit aussi, comme il a commencé de le faire.


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