# С самого утра



## PorFavorDama

_*Hi everyone,*_

After a long while here I am again. 
I have come across with this sentence below while studying the preposition "С/СО".


> Медсестра была на ногах _*с самого утра*_ и очень устала.


Is this "*с самого утра" *a phrase in Russian? Because I couldn't figure out why it is used with "Сам" instead of using it alone. Wouldn't it make the same sense?

_*Thanks in advance! *_


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## smmichael

Hi, PorFavorDama,

*с самого утра *means *since the very morning* 

This construction is widely used in Russian.

Other examples:
с *самого *начала - from the *very *beginning
на *самом *краю - at the *very *edge


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## Drink

самый in this case translates to English as "very". С самого утра = "from the very morning", although a more idiomatic English translation would be "from the break of dawn" or something like that (only because "the very morning" doesn't sound very good to me for some reason).


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## PorFavorDama

smmichael said:


> Hi, PorFavorDama,
> 
> *с самого утра *means *since the very morning*
> 
> This construction is widely used in Russian.
> 
> Other examples:
> с *самого *начала - from the *very *beginning
> на *самом *краю - at the *very *edge





Drink said:


> самый in this case translates to English as "very". С самого утра = "from the very morning", although a more idiomatic English translation would be "from the break of dawn" or something like that (only because "the very morning" doesn't sound very good to me for some reason).



Thank you both for your informative answers. Can you think of any other example in which used "самый" (maybe without "C") as "very" to comprehend the difference better for me?
"Early morning" would sound better I guess in your case @Drink .


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## Drink

PorFavorDama said:


> Thank you both for your informative answers. Can you think of any other example in which used "самый" (maybe without "C") as "very" to comprehend the difference better for me?
> "Early morning" would sound better I guess in your case @Drink .



The examples smmichael gave are pretty good. If you want a couple more:

в самом конце фильма = at the very end of the movie
в самом центре города = at the very center of the city

Or a more complex example:

с самого начала до самого конца = from the very beginning, to the very end


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## Maroseika

Some more examples of the different kind:
Вокруг города много промышленных предприятий, но в само́м городе тихо и спокойно.
Ты из Подмосковья или из само́й Москвы?


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## Enquiring Mind

> Is this "*с самого утра" *a phrase in Russian? Because I couldn't figure out why it is used with "Сам" instead of using it alone. Wouldn't it make the same sense?


 Сам is the emphatic definite pronoun, so it gives emphasis here to утро.
Медсестра была на ногах _*с самого утра*_ и очень устала.
The nurse had been on her feet since first thing in the morning ....

Yes, it is possible to say just _*с утра*, _but then it loses the emphasis. Дождь идет с утра - it's [= it has] been raining since (this) morning.

Note, too, that с утра can also mean "in the morning", not necessarily "since morning".
Опухшие глаза с утра: причины и решение проблемы - puffy eyes in the morning ....


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## Rosett

You can just say: "...since early in the morning."
Must agree with Forero Drink that "very" in "the very morning" doesn't mean anything.


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## Awwal12

2*Maroseika,** Enquiring Mind*
Guys, sorry, but I must deliberately stress that here we are talking about pronoun *са́мый/са́мая/са́мое* here (с са́мого утра́), not about pronoun *са́м/сама́/само́* (which would give с самого́ утра́). Such confusion might prove really harmful for beginner learners.
"Сам" accurately enough corresponds to English "myself"/"yourself"/"himself"/"herself"/"itself"/"oneself".
"Cамый", in turn, pretty accurately corresponds to English "the very" (at least when used with nouns; with adjectives it just forms the superlative, and that *PorFavorDama* likely knows already).

As a sidenote for *PorFavorDama*, с утра́ has a different stress than in the standard genitive form у́тра. For instance:
я́ никогда́ ра́ньше не ви́дел тако́го прекра́сного *у́тра*, but мы́ рабо́таем с са́мого *утра́*.
"Утро" generally exhibits great anomalies in its stress with prepositions. Cf. also мы́ ра́ды краси́вому *у́тру*, but к *утру́*. We might classify it as another examples of the ablative and allative cases in Russian, considering it doesn't work with non-spatial prepositions (с утра́, but usually без у́тра).


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## Q-cumber

In my opinion, the expression rather means 'from this morning ' than 'from the break of dawn / early morning '.


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## Awwal12

P.S.: I also feel necessary to add that "самый" with prepositions of place can, in addition, mean just a close proximity: "у са́мого мо́ря" - "~right on the seashore", etc.


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## Awwal12

Q-cumber said:


> In my opinion, the expression rather means 'from this morning ' than 'from the break of dawn / early morning '.


I cannot agree, I am afraid. From the early morning or not, but the phrase *с са́мого утра́* directly stresses that the process began early anyway, from the speaker's point of view. It can be replaced with "пря́мо с утра́" with no changes in the meaning whatsoever, but not with "с утра́" (which is a plain statement) and not with "с этого утра" (which is also a plain statement, but in addition specifies that we speak about exactly this morning, and it's just not necessary the case; cf. всю́ неде́лю о́н с са́мого утра́ уходи́л в по́ле).

I begin to think that "right from the morning" may actually be the best translation. (And now I get a feeling that I seriously lack both clarity of thinking and proficiency in English. )


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## Drink

Awwal12 said:


> I begin to think that "right from the morning" may actually be the best translation.



"Right from the morning" stresses the immediacy of the event having begun in the morning, while to me "с самого утра" stresses the length of the time that has passed. I agree with Q-cumber that in English there is not better way to translate this accurately than by simply saying "since morning". In fact I might even say that just "с утра" would normally be "since the morning", so omitting "the" mildly stresses that you are referring to the "actual morning" and not your "personal morning". However, if you don't need to stick to accuracy, "since the break of dawn" conveys the feeling better. Another option "since early in the morning" is a compromise, since it conveys more of the feeling of a long time having passed, while not being specific enough to be called inaccurate.

Also to clarify, I don't know _why_ "since the very morning" doesn't sound good, because you _can_ use "very" that way with other nouns, for example "since the very break of dawn", "since the very first shift", "since the very beginning". Perhaps it's because morning is considered an entire period of time and not merely the edge of the day. Also, I just noticed that "I was there from the very morning to the very evening" sounds perfectly fine, while "I have been here since the very morning" does not. I have no idea how to explain that.


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## Awwal12

Drink said:


> "Right from the morning" stresses the immediacy of the event having begun in the morning, while to me "с самого утра" stresses the length of the time that has passed.


It seems to me that it doesn't. You could say (to your superior, for instance) "мы́ сего́дня рабо́таем с са́мого утра́" both in 4 pm and in 10 am; again, it just stresses that the process began early - and its being long (which may be, of course, implied) or not follows only from the context.


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## Rosett

I would say that "работаем с самого утра" puts stress on an uninterrupted process.


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## PorFavorDama

Thank you so much all (@Drink @Q-cumber @Awwal12 @Rosett @smmichael @Maroseika @Enquiring Mind ), for your answers. I have taken a look at each example you had given and understand them all. Now, I am just reading comments and learning something new since I don't really have an idea about it. 
But I would agree with Rosett's last comment which is 





Rosett said:


> I would say that "работаем с самого утра" puts stress on an uninterrupted process.


 for the English translation of it of course.


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## Awwal12

Drink said:


> "Right from the morning" stresses the immediacy of the event having begun in the morning, while to me "с самого утра" stresses the length of the time that has passed.


P.S.: On the other hand you're partly right. Although "прямо с утра" and "right from the morning" seem equal, "с самого утра" isn't identical to them in its meaning, and one must disregard what I said above about it. While "с самого утра" may stress both the time of the start AND the long time that has passed since then, "прямо с утра" for some reason won't do for the latter; instead it directly specifies that the process began in the morning and not later. So, "я с самого утра на ногах"  sounds fine, but "я прямо с утра на ногах"  apparently doesn't.


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