# to get caught red-handed



## ThomasK

We have a very specific term, "*pakkans*", referring to the chances (possibility, plausibility) of getting caught while speeding or offending traffic rules, literally "grabbing chance". The reason is that  it has become clear that the "pakkans" deters more than the height of the fines. Do you have a term for that?

And what is your general term for "*catching*" and for "*catching red-handedly*" [French: "attrappé (I think) en flagrant délit"]?


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## Penyafort

Catalan:

- (formal standard) *trobar/atrapar algú en flagrant delicte*
- (idiom) *atrapar/enxampar algú amb les mans a la pasta* [catch _sb _with his hands in the paste/dough]
- (idiom) *atrapar/enxampar algú amb les mans al plat* [catch _sb _with his hands in the dish]
- (idiom) *atrapar/enxampar algú in fraganti *[catch _sb _'_in flagranti (crimine)_'] (informal deviation from the Latin expression)​Spanish:

- (formal estandard) *hallar/atrapar a alguien en flagrante delito*
- (idiom) *coger/agarrar/pillar/pescar a alguien con las manos en la masa *[catch _sb _with his hands in the dough]
- (idiom) *coger/agarrar/pillar/pescar a alguien in fraganti* [catch _sb _'_in flagranti (crimine)_'] (informal deviation from the Latin expression)​


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## ger4

German: _*jemanden*_ _*auf frischer Tat ertappen
*
jemanden - '_someone' (accusative, direct object case)
_auf frischer Tat _~ lit. '(up)on fresh deed'
_ertappen*_ ~ 'to catch out'

* The prefix _er-_ often expresses the beginning of an action, in this case perhaps suddenness. The verb _tappen_ is originally onomatopoetic, referring to the sound of light and careful steps. It can be translated as 'to move cautiously' (also: 'to toddle', 'to pad', and in some contexts 'to grope').

(_*in flagranti*_ is also used in German)


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## merquiades

In French there is also "*être pris la main dans le sac*" (to be caught with your hand in the sack).


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## Nawaq

ThomasK said:


> [French: "attrappé (I think) en flagrant délit"]?



Voui, _"attraper quelqu'un en flagrant délit", _commonly said_ "pris en flag"_.

Also,_ "prendre quelqu'un sur le fait", "prendre en faute"_.


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## ThomasK

But then no words for "pakkans" then? How would you explain the concept in your language?

_Frischer Tat:_ oh yes, the deed is still fresh, I get it (I thought of cold vs. warm, but that is the wrong association) But I associated 'er-" with result, "perfection". We can use "ver-" like that in Dutch: _verplaatsen_ is moving something somewhere, whereas plaatsen is just putting (nothing else implied).

I like the _hand_ metaphors, I'd say. And so you can sometimes just use _prendre_ instead of _attraper_...


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## momai

In Arabic :
to catch: قبض على qabaDa 3ala (root q-b-D)

I can think of two ways to express this (catching red-handedly)in Arabic :
1- القبض على فلان متلبساً(بالجرم)
القبض على فلان= to catch sb
متلبساً= dressed
ب=with/by
الجرم=  the crime

*or*

2-القبض على فلان بالجرم المشهود
القبض على فلان= to catch sb
ب=with/by
الجرم المشهود=the witnessed crime


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Formal/Legal terminology: *«Επ' αυτοφώρῳ»* [ep͜ aftoˈfoɾo] --> _in the act of commiting misdeed/crime_ lit. _in blazing offence_ < Lat. in flagrante delicto. It appears in Lysias' _against Agoratus_ 13,85: *«ἐπ' αὐτοφώρῳ» ĕp' au̯tŏpʰórō̩* = _(to be caught) in the act._
-MoGr preposition *«επί»* [eˈpi] --> _about, on, by_ < Classical preposition *«ἐπί» ĕpí* --> _on, at, by, at the same time, because_ (PIE *h₁epi- _on_ cf Skt. अपि (ápi), _also, too_, Av aipi, _also_, Arm. եվ (yev), _and_).
-MoGr nominal *«αυτόφωρος, -η, ο»* [aˈftofoɾos] (masc.), [aˈftofoɾi] (fem.), [aˈftofoɾo] (neut.) --> _(legal) the act of committing a blazing offence, (legal) procedure in criminal cases where the offender is caught in the act_ < Classical nominal *«αὐτόφωρος, -ος, -ον» au̯tópʰōrŏs* (masc. & fem.), *au̯tópʰōrŏn* (neut.) --> _self-detected_ < compound; combinatory *«αὐτο-» au̯tŏ-* of Classical pron. *«αὐτός» autós* (masc.), *«αὐτή» autḗ* (fem.), *«αὐτό(ν)» autó(n)* (neut.) --> _himself, herself, itself_ (PIE *h₂eu- _again_ + *to- _that_) + Classical 3rd declension masc. noun *«φωρ» pʰōr* (nom. sing.), *«φωρός» pʰōrós* (gen. sing.) --> _thief_ (old lengthened grade agent noun *bʰōr- lit. _the bearer_ to the IE v. *bʰer- _to bear_ identical to the Lat. fūr (masc. nom. sing.), fūris (masc. gen. sing.) --> _thief_).

Idiom, colloquialism: *«Στα πράσα»* [sta ˈprasa] --> _in the leeks_ (the thinking is that leeks are short in length, therefore it's difficult (or stupid) to use a field full of leeks as hiding place).
Idiom, colloquialism: *«Με λερωμένα τα χέρια»* [me leɾoˈmena ta ˈçeɾ͡ʝa] --> _with dirty hands_.
Idiom, vulgar: *«Με την πούτσα στο χέρι»* [me tiɱ͜ ˈbuʦ͡a sto ˈçeɾi]  --> _with the d*ck in the hand_.

-MoGr *«πράσο»* [ˈpraso] (neut. nom. sing.), *«πράσα»* [ˈprasa] (neut. nom. pl.) --> _leek(s)_ < Classical neut. *«πράσον» prắsŏn* --> _leek, Allium porrum_ (possibly from PIE *prs̥o(m)- _leek_, cognate with the Lat. porrum).
-MoGr nominal *«λερωμένος, -νη, -νο»* [leɾoˈmenos] (masc.), [leɾoˈmeni] (fem.), [leɾoˈmeno] (neut.) --> _to be dirty_, aphetic of Byz.Gr mediopassive participle *«ὀλερωμένος» οlerōménos* of the active denominative v. *«ὀλερώνω» olerṓnō* --> _to make dirty, stain_ < Classical nominal *«ὀλός» ŏlós* --> _blurry, dirty_, lit. _name for a bleary liquid from the squids, cephalopod ink_ (with obscure etymology).
-MoGr fem. noun *«πούτσα»* [ˈpuʦ͡a]  alt. of masc. *«πούτσος»* [ˈpuʦ͡os]  --> _d*ick, c*ck_ the obscene name of penis (possibly from the Classical *«πόσθη» póstʰē* (fem.) --> _penis, foreskin_ with obscure etymology).

The verbs associated with the aforementioned espressions are *(a) «πιάνω»* [ˈp͡çano] --> _to lay hold of_ < Doric and later Attic form *«πιάζω» pĭázō* of Classical v. *«πιέζω» pĭézō* --> _to press, squeeze, press tight/hard, weigh down, lay hold of_ (with obscure etymology, the similarity to the Skt. v. पीडयति (pīḍayati), _to pinch, squeeze_ is noteworthy).
*«Πιάνω»* is used in the vernacular e.g. *«μ' έπιασαν στα πράσα»* [m͜ ˈep͡çasan sta ˈprasa] --> _they caught me in the leeks_ («έπιασαν» is 3rd p. pl. aorist); *(b)«συλλαμβάνω»* [silamˈvano] (active voice), *«συλλαμβάνομαι»* 
[silamˈvanome] (mediopassive voice) --> _(active v.) to arrest, catch and hold, take into custody, (mediopassive) to be caught, arrested_ < Classical v. *«συλλαμβάνω» sŭllămbánō* < compound; prefix and preposition *«σύν» sún* --> _with, together_ (with obscure etymology) + Classical v. *«λαμβάνω» lămbánō* (PIE *sleh₂gʷ- _to take, grasp_ cf Proto-Germanic *lakjaną > Eng. latch).
*«Συλλαμβάνω»* is formal language e.g. *«συνελήφθη επ' αυτοφώρῳ»* [sineˈlifθi ep͜ aftoˈfoɾo] --> _(s/he/it) was arrested red handed, in the act_ («συνελήφθη» is 3rd p. sing. aorist mediopassive voice).


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## ger4

ThomasK said:


> But I associated 'er-" with result, "perfection"


I think in many cases that's right, e.g. _erfüllen_ vs _füllen_ ('to fulfil[l]' vs 'to fill'). On the other hand, _er-_ can indicate a beginning, thinking of verbs like _erkennen_ vs _kennen_ ('to recognize' vs 'to know') or _erblühen_ vs _blühen_ ('to begin to bloom' vs 'to bloom').

Trying to find a German equivalent to _pakkans_ I could only think of _Trefferquote_ - 'strike rate' (which probably has a much broader meaning).


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## merquiades

Holger2014 said:


> I think in many cases that's right, e.g. _erfüllen_ vs _füllen_ ('to fulfil[l]' vs 'to fill'). On the other hand, _er-_ can indicate a beginning, thinking of verbs like _erkennen_ vs _kennen_ ('to recognize' vs 'to know') or _erblühen_ vs _blühen_ ('to begin to bloom' vs 'to bloom').
> 
> Trying to find a German equivalent to _pakkans_ I could only think of _Trefferquote_ - 'strike rate' (which probably has a much broader meaning).


The page I just happen to be reading says that er- indicates that the action of root is now completed:  erreichen, erstechen, ersterben, erzwingen, erforschen, erscheissen.


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## ger4

merquiades said:


> The page I just happen to be reading says that er- indicates that the action of root is now completed: erreichen, erstechen, ersterben, erzwingen, erforschen, erschießen.


Even though I think the explanations on the website you mentioned are always very clear and useful, it should be added that German prefixes are often quite ambiguous, thinking of _erblühen_ - 'to begin to bloom' - for instance, which doesn't seem to express the idea of completion (at least not primarily). Sometimes both ideas can be expressed: _erkalten_ - 'to cool down', _sich erwärmen_ - 'to warm up' (but perhaps that would be a new topic for a new thread...).

* (EDIT) Some more examples and explanations here:


Spoiler



1) Le préfixe verbal _er-_
« Être en fleur » ou « produire des fleurs » peut se rendre par _blühen_, alors que le composé _erblühen_ signifie nécessairement l'entrée dans l'état correspondant. Les compléments de temps des deux exemples suivants ne sont donc pas interchangeables :

*Exemple :*
_Die Rosen blühen hundert Jahre lang_ « Les roses fleurissent cent ans »
_Die Rosen erblühen in einem Tag_ « Les roses fleurissent en un jour »1

On comparera également l'adjectif _krank_ « malade », le dérivé verbal employé dans l'expression _an etwas kranken_ (« pécher par quelque chose »), le dérivé avec alternance vocalique _kränkeln_ « être malade » et l'inchoatif _erkranken_ « tomber malade ».
Aspect inchoatif — Wikipédia


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## ThomasK

I think I recognize most examples as perfective, but I suppose in other case they are inchoative, i suppose (IN Dutch we use "ver-" and "ont-" (_ontbijten_ for example, frühstücken, Imbiß).

Greek too refers to these colloquial expressions that we do not know in Dutch, as far as I can see now.

BTW: _*Trefferquote*_ seems to refer to about the same thing as _pakkans_, indeed, but I think our word deters more, in that it refers to something like grabbing (not just catching) and to the chances (not just the quantity, which seems more descriptive). But don't misunderstand: thanks for the word and it is related indeed!


momai said:


> In Arabic :
> to catch: قبض على qabaDa 3ala (root q-b-D)
> 
> I can think of two ways to express this (catching red-handedly)in Arabic :
> 1- القبض على فلان متلبساً(بالجرم)
> القبض على فلان= to catch sb
> متلبساً= dressed
> ب=with/by
> الجرم=  the crime


Dress(ed) is the usual clothes verb then, I suppose? What is the broad meaning of q-b-D please?


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## Nawaq

ThomasK said:


> But then no words for "pakkans" then? How would you explain the concept in your language?



Hi (since I am not too sure if this question was directed at me or not),

TBH, I don't know. 


Problem solved.


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## Messquito

In Chinese:
被逮/抓個正著 Be caught/grabbed right during doing so


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## ger4

I've just come across another German expression: _Erwischquote_ < _jemanden erwischen _(again, the _er-_ prefix...)

Creating new compounds is very easy in German, many compounds aren't listed in dictionaries*. _Erwischquote_ is mainly used in informal contexts.


Spoiler: Some examples






> ... Viel Falschparken gibt es gerade auch außerhalb von der Innenstadt. Mir fällt spontan ein, dass es für eine fahrradzentrierte Sicht auf das Verkehrsgeschehen gut wäre, wenn Polizisten auch auf Fahrrädern Streife fahren würden. Heute sage ich: es liegt nahe, dass Beamte, die Parksünder außerhalb von der Innenstadt aufspüren sollen, ebenso auf Fahrrädern Streife fahren. Die Erwischquote dürfte erheblich ansteigen, so dass die Damen und Herren auch außerhalb des Innenstadtbereiches ihre eigene Kosten „zurückverdienen...  source





> ... Ob sie jetzt einen Bankautomaten knacken oder dir eins übern Schädel ziehen ist denen egal. Insofern macht es nur so viel Sinn die Bankautomaten abzusichern, wie es auch finanziell lohnend ist.
> Die Erwischquote muss erhöht werden - auch durch vermeintliche Lücken und Probleme... source





* Edit: _Erwischquote_ isn't even listed in any of these constantly updated online dictionaries


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## Sardokan1.0

in Italian :

- essere colto con le mani nel sacco (to be caught with hands in the sack)
- essere colto in flagrante (to be caught "in flagrante")
- essere colto sul fatto (to be caught "in the making")

in Sardinian :

- essere agattadu a manos in coa (to be found with hands in the lap) - "coa" means also "tail" (Lat. "cauda")
- essere agattadu cun su sòrighe in bucca (to be found with the mouse in the mouth)


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## Armas

Finnish:

jäädä kiinni itse teossa "to be caught in the act itself"
jäädä rysän päältä kiinni "to be caught on top of a fyke" (a kind of fish trap)
jäädä kiinni housut kintuissa "to be caught with pants on the feet (i.e. down)", colloquial


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Actually, in English the idiom is "to be caught red-handed" (not "re-handedly"). Also "to be caught in the act", and humorously the Latin _in flagrante delicto_.


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## Frieder

"Caught with one's hand in the cookie jar" would be another of those. But I think that it is the *hit rate* that ThomasK is looking for.


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## ThomasK

Great additions, Frieder. Yes, the hit rate/ Erwischquote indeed for catching people with the hand in the cookie ..., or no, on the gear stick! ;-), or red-handed (_you are quite right, atf_)

This far I'd give Sardinian the prize for metaphorical expressivity (if that word existed).

Replying to Nawaq' question or note respectively: it was a general question, be sure of that. My point is that I think it is an interesting distinction: that from a psychological point of view *raising* *the hit rate is far more efficient (effective ?) than raising the amount due, of the fine*... Therefore I'd be interested to hear how you would explain that distinction (the literal words are less important than the way of explaining it...)


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## Armas

Finnish has _kiinnijäämisriski_ "risk of getting caught".


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## momai

ThomasK said:


> Dress(ed) is the usual clothes verb then, I suppose?


Yes,the root l-b-s means to get dressed



> What is the broad meaning of q-b-D please?


q-b-D can also mean to grip or to hold
Other words related to the root are for example:
qabDa قبضة =a fist
miqbaD مقبض=a handle


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## Karton Realista

Polish:
*Zostać złapanym na gorącym uczynku. *
To be caught on a hot deed. 
It also can be active, but I'm too lazy to write it down. You get the idea of this idiom. 
As for the first question - sometimes you can use the term *ryzyko zawodowe *(risk associated with a certain job) to describe criminal actions too.


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## twinklestar

Another Chinese expression:

被抓现行= be caught on current behavior

被＝passive voice
抓＝catch
现＝current
行＝action, behavior


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Armas said:


> jäädä kiinni housut kintuissa "to be caught with pants on the feet (i.e. down)", colloquial



In Engish, "to be caught with one's pants down" does not mean the same as "to be caught red-handed"; it means "to be caught unprepared","to be taken off guard".


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## Armas

It has that meaning in Finnish too. I think the English expression was borrowed into Finnish and some people thought it is just another way of saying "to be caught red-handed".


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## merquiades

I don't see much difference between "to be caught with one's pants down" and "to be caught red-handed".  "To be caught doing something you shouldn't be doing."


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Hi, merq, The difference: 
If you are "caught red-handed ", you are caught doing something you shouldn't be doing; 
if you are "caught with your pants down", as I said, someone did something you weren't expecting and to which you were unprepared to react. Another expression for this: "to be wrong-footed".


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## 810senior

Japanese:
xxxを現行犯逮捕する (arrest xxx in fragrant offence)
切符を切る (punch a ticket [for fine]) used when you drive your car above the speed limits and a police officer tries to punish you with some fine.


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## ThomasK

I think atf? is right: there is a fundamental difference, whereas there is some undeniable resemblance as well.


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> We have a very specific term, "*pakkans*", referring to the chances (possibility, plausibility) of getting caught while speeding or offending traffic rules, literally "grabbing chance". The reason is that  it has become clear that the "pakkans" deters more than the height of the fines. Do you have a term for that?
> And what is your general term for "*catching*" and for "*catching red-handedly*" [French: "attrappé (I think) en flagrant délit"]?



I have the feeling "pakkans" is a noun while you used an English verbal idiom. Could you write a particular sentence when pakkans is used? Pakkans must be a really specific Dutch noun. What's the etymology?


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## ThomasK

Maybe I caused some confusion: "grabbing chance" was meant to be a paraphrase like "the chance that you will be caught, lit. grabbed"...


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> ..."the chance that you will be caught, lit. grabbed"...



Yes, I have checked the dictionary and that was the definition of pakkans.
So, how would you say this in Dutch: Let's go, now there is little chance to get caught red-handed.
My guess: Laten we gaan, nu de pakkans is klein.


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## ThomasK

Interesting question. I suddenly realized that "pakkans" is associated with speed cameras mainly and with crime. The point is: the authorities have found out that the pakkans scares drivers more than the fine as such. Caught red-handed will be used in more informal contexts. That might make things clearer…


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## Encolpius

Which one is an interesting question?


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## ThomasK

The question whether you can ask: "Let's go, de pakkans is klein." You could say it when you're a criminal, or someone who loves speeding. The interesting thing was: I realized we use it in a way different from "op heterdaad betrappen"...


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## Encolpius

The main thing is, you can say: De pakkans is klein. Now I think I understand the thread. I think your pakkans deserves a nice spot in this thread.


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