# dawg/homie



## Siavash2015

Hello, are these terms dawg/homie an offensive term for calling your close friends?....in what settings are these acceptable ?
Can you please give me some synonyms for that?
Thank you in advance


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## owlman5

Hi, Siavish.



Siavash2015 said:


> Hello, are these terms dawg/homie an offensive term for calling your close friends?....in what settings are these acceptable ?


I associate "dawg" and "homie" with African-American speech.  If the people you are talking to use "dawg" and "homie" when they address you, it should be safe to use those words _with those people_.  It's not a good idea to believe that _everybody_ uses "dawg" and "homie" to mean "friend" or "buddy".  Many English-speakers would probably find those terms annoying or inappropriate.

I recommend that you use something more neutral like "friend" if you aren't sure that "dawg" is appropriate.  Many of my friends address each other as "buddy", but I don't think younger people use "buddy" with this meaning as often as my generation did .


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## Siavash2015

owlman5 said:


> Hi, Siavish.
> 
> I associate "dawg" and "homie" with African-American speech.  If the people you are talking to use "dawg" and "homie" when they address you, it should be safe to use those words _with those people_.  It's not a good idea to believe that _everybody_ uses "dawg" and "homie" to mean "friend" or "buddy".  Many English-speakers would probably find those terms annoying or inappropriate.
> 
> I recommend that you use something more neutral like "friend" if you aren't sure that "dawg" is appropriate.  Many of my friends address each other as "buddy", but I don't think younger people use "buddy" with this meaning as often as my generation did .



Thank you for making time for me Owlman.Sorry I wanna add something, coz when I watch native movies I hear these a lot....how about pal/ chum/ comrade/ amiga?
Thanks a bunch for your help


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## owlman5

You're welcome.  "Pal" and "chum" could easily sound sarcastic to me, Siavish.  "Comrade" sounds like a word that somebody borrowed from the Soviet use of that term during the communist era.

"Amiga" is the feminine form of "amigo" (friend) in Spanish.  English-speakers who speak some Spanish might use it to refer to their friends.

I can only guess about the reactions of unknown people to those words.  Speaking only for myself, I'd prefer "friend" or "buddy."


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## Siavash2015

owlman5 said:


> "Pal" and "chum" could easily sound sarcastic to me, Siavish.  "Comrade" sounds like a word that somebody borrowed from the Soviet use of that term during the communist era.
> 
> "Amiga" is the feminine form of "amigo" (friend) in Spanish.  English-speakers who speak some Spanish might use it to refer to their friends.
> 
> I can only guess about the reactions of unknown people to those words.  Speaking only for myself, I'd prefer "friend" or "buddy."


Thanks again Owlman5, by sarcastic you mean it can be offensive Or the hearer may take it as an insult?...so you mean even with friends they're not acceptable terms?


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## Siavash2015

Siavash2015 said:


> Thanks again Owlman5, by sarcastic you mean it can be offensive Or the hearer may take it as an insult?...so you mean even with friends they're not acceptable terms?


Sorry, are they a term for addressing someone as well as here: we're comrades/ amigos/pals............  hey amigo/pal/comrade, what up?


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## owlman5

Siavash2015 said:


> Thanks again Owlman5, by sarcastic you mean it can be offensive Or the hearer may take it as an insult?


Yes.  "Pal" and "chum" are sometimes used in critical, unfriendly remarks.  Your tone of voice and what you say after "pal" are very important.  In my experience, both "pal" and "chum" are fairly uncommon in today's AE as terms for "friend".



Siavash2015 said:


> ...so you mean even with friends they're not acceptable terms?


They are possible if you and your friends use "pal" and "chum" to mean "buddy."  I don't use these terms with _my_ friends, however.



Siavash2015 said:


> Sorry, are they a term for addressing someone as well as here: we're comrades/ amigos/pals............ hey amigo/pal/comrade, what up?


These words could be used to address someone.  To me, your sentence sounds like something you have picked up from a movie somewhere.  

I know it's difficult to learn current idiomatic expressions, but you need to know that the dialog in movies often represents some screenwriter's idea of what a latino character, a black character, or a rural white southern character might say. You really need a deep familiarity with U.S. culture to know how to use different colloquial words for "friend" in the U.S.  It's not a good idea to assume that something you hear in a movie is a good model for what you should say.

Edited clarify quotation. Cagey, moderator.


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## Siavash2015

owlman5 said:


> Yes.  "Pal" and "chum" are sometimes used in critical, unfriendly remarks.  Your tone of voice and what you say after "pal" are very important.  In my experience, both "pal" and "chum" are fairly uncommon in today's AE as terms for "friend".
> 
> They are possible if you and your friends use "pal" and "chum" to mean "buddy."  I don't use these terms with _my_ friends, however.


Thank you,Owlman5, you're a peach


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## bennymix

While "Listen, chum, I have something to tell you" is usually sarcastic and hostile, it's hardly rare
to use the term positively.  I saw Hollywood actor X, who is a chum of President Obama.


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## Siavash2015

bennymix said:


> While "Listen, chum, I have something to tell you" is usually sarcastic and hostile, it's hardly rare
> to use the term positively.  I saw Hollywood actor X, who is a chum of President Obama.



Thank you Bennymix, so you mean there's no problem using Your last example ?
I saw Hollywood actor X, who is a chum of President Obama.


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## sdgraham

There are many slang terms in English that are best avoided by learners, regardless of a misguided assumption that they make the speaker sound 'hip' or 'cool.'

"Dawg" and  "homie" will make you sound like a member of the underclass to most educated speakers.

So does  "wanna."


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## perpend

owlman used "buddy" in his post, which is pretty neutral for friend.

Younger American English speakers (and not so young) often use "dude" in a fairly neutral way to mean "friend".


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## bennymix

There is no problem in my example.  It's positive.   The practical realities of when a person says, "chum" to you, _esp. when they don't know you, _are more complicated_:_

If you are on an elevator that's crowded, as male says _"Chum, you're standing on my foot." that is likely NOT friendly._



Siavash2015 said:


> Thank you Bennymix, so you mean there's no problem using Your last example ?
> I saw Hollywood actor X, who is a chum of President Obama.


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## bennymix

"Dawg" is often an affectionate term, in Black American slang, among male friends.   It suggests
sexual prowess or boldness.


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## perpend

sdgraham said:


> "Dawg" and  "homie" will make you sound like a member of the underclass to most educated speakers.
> 
> So does  "wanna."



Can't agree that "dawg" or "homie" make you sound like a member of the "underclass" (which I wouldn't know how to define). It's just AAVE for me. I surmise that even highly educated African American English speakers may pull out the occasional "dawg" or "homie/homey/homeboy".

White American English speakers use it also a little bit, since we've learned it from AAVE.

I say and use "wanna" in writing from time to time. I don't feel like that classifies me as an "underclass-ite".

That's one slippery slope to broadbrush that way.


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## MattiasNYC

perpend said:


> Can't agree that "dawg" or "homie" make you sound like a member of the "underclass" (which I wouldn't know how to define). It's just AAVE for me. I surmise that even highly educated African American English speakers may pull out the occasional "dawg" or "homie/homey/homeboy".
> 
> White American English speakers use it also a little bit, since we've learned it from AAVE.
> 
> I say and use "wanna" in writing from time to time. I don't feel like that classifies me as an "underclass-ite".
> 
> That's one slippery slope to broadbrush that way.



I fully agree with you. 
< --- >


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## bennymix

Black vernacular, street talk, is preserved or used by those who've gotten very rich.   I'm thinking Black, but some white persons as well.  Snoop Dogg is a millionaire and successful, award winning rapper.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoop_Dogg


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## Siavash2015

bennymix said:


> "Dawg" is often an affectionate term, in Black American slang, among male friends.   It suggests
> sexual prowess or boldness.


Thank you bennymix, but what do you mean by it suggests sexual prowess or boldness?

Are dawg and homie used by under class people?


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## owlman5

"Dawg" and "wanna" can certainly be used by people who aren't members of the underclass, but I think sdgraham did well to recommend that Siavash avoid those words in his own English.

If Siavash were to come over here and talk to me, I'd find it very strange to hear him straining to speak in an African-American (or any other) dialect.  If he did this all the time, I would assume that Siavash had never learned standard English.  I think it's a good idea to tell learners to spend their time learning standard English if they want to use English with a wide variety of native speakers.

Cross-posted with three others.  It's getting crowded in here.


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## bennymix

I'm a descriptivist.   Today's 'underclass words' will be on the gold necklaces and tatooed on 
the bodies of tomorrow's celebrities and teens.

To wit  [Dawg pendant]

http://rlv.zcache.co.nz/dawg_necklace-r48376b0e05164ebf98a5f659af67988d_fkoep_8byvr_324.jpg




perpend said:


> Can you give your own view?


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## Siavash2015

Sorry I'm kind of confused about where to use dawg/homie/pal would you please help me with keeping your explanations more simple?
Thanks a bunch


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## DonnyB

owlman5 said:


> I associate "dawg" and "homie" with African-American speech.  If the people you are talking to use "dawg" and "homie" when they address you, it should be safe to use those words _with those people_.  It's not a good idea to believe that _everybody_ uses "dawg" and "homie" to mean "friend" or "buddy".  Many English-speakers would probably find those terms annoying or inappropriate.


I would go along with all that from a BE standpoint.  

We don't use "pal" or "chum" much these days: they sound distinctly old-fashioned to me.  If you want an all-purpose one to use amongst friends over here, "mate" is a fairly safe bet.


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## perpend

Siavish may be here, owlman. Why do you use "were to come over here"? Why do you assume otherwise from a listing of his/her native language?

There's nothing wrong with using "dawg" or "homie" in the right context.

I believe that was Siavish's question.


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## bennymix

In the UK, for sure.   Not sure I'd recommend it for the US, unless one is cultivating a British look and talk.



DonnyB said:


> I would go along with all that from a BE standpoint.
> 
> We don't use "pal" or "chum" much these days: they sound distinctly old-fashioned to me.  If you want an all-purpose one to use amongst friends over here, "mate" is a fairly safe bet.


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## owlman5

Here's my simplest advice, Siavash: Don't use those words in your English.  It's fine to know what they mean, but I don't think you have any good reason to copy them in your own English.

As I mentioned in your thread about "dope", it is easy for foreigners to sound ridiculous if they try to copy slang and trendy expressions.  You would sound ridiculous to many native speakers if you used "homie" when you addressed them.

To perpend: I made an assumption about where Siavash might be now because Siavash didn't want to mention that in his profile.  I hope you're not looking to take offense.  I assure you that none was intended.


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## bennymix

It's quite simple and has been said above.  IF  1) you are among American Black people and are accepted on a friendly basis, AND 2) one of them addresses you in those terms, i.e.,  says to you, "How's it goin' dawg?"  You may say, "Dawg, I'm glad you asked."




perpend said:


> Siavish may be here, owlman. Why do you use "were to come over here"?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with using "dawg" or "homie" in the right context.
> 
> I believe that was Siavish's question.


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## perpend

Siavash2015 said:


> Sorry I'm kind of confused about where to use dawg/homie/pal would you please help me with keeping your explanations more simple?
> Thanks a bunch



Do you want to use this in your own speech, or, are you curious because you hear it on TV and in the media, etc.


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## Andygc

Siavash2015 said:


> Sorry I'm kind of confused about where to use dawg/homie/pal would you please help me with keeping your explanations more simple?
> Thanks a bunch


Here's simple. Do not use dawg/homie/pal. Dawg and homie are not standard English. Pal can be misunderstood.


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## MattiasNYC

owlman5 said:


> "Dawg" and "wanna" can certainly be used by people who aren't members of the underclass, but I think sdgraham did well to recommend that Siavash avoid those words in his own English.
> 
> If Siavash were to come over here and talk to me, I'd find it very strange to hear him straining to speak in an African-American (or any other) dialect.  If he did this all the time, I would assume that Siavash had never learned standard English.  I think it's a good idea to tell learners to spend their time learning standard English if they want to use English with a wide variety of native speakers.
> 
> Cross-posted with three others.  It's getting crowded in here.



We know very little about Siavash. It could very well be that it sounds perfectly natural for him to use a certain vocabulary considering how else he expresses himself using music and clothes etc. I've certainly encountered many people of different ethnic backgrounds that have adopted various vocabulary that _on the surface_ doesn't seem.... "obvious". From whites that speak black, blacks that sound whiter than white, Asians that adopt Jamaican slang etc......

Curiously it seems to only be strange when some people adopt some sort of African-whatever vernacular. And on top of that talk about underclass. 

We have people change their vocabulary either because they get with the times, or because they begin to consume different culture, or because they belong to a younger generation. It's all just expressing oneself and also fitting into cultures or sub-cultures. People complain about new vocabulary all the time but give it time and it'll be kosher. Just look at all the new words that are becoming officially recognized every year. Underclass is right; certain groups aren't listened to and aren't getting the same level of attention and recognition as others, regardless of whether new words are good or bad, or sound good or bad.

Basically what I'm saying is that people here help create at the very least the perception of an underclass, and not only that, but also tying it to race or ethnicity. This _is _a duck.


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## Siavash2015

perpend said:


> Do you want to use this in your own speech, or, are you curious because you hear it on TV and in the media, etc.


I'm curious about them coz I come across them in movies And also if they're not lame  to say I'd use them, but from the discussion in this forum, I figure I should be careful using them


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## owlman5

MattiasNYC said:


> Basically what I'm saying is that people here help create at the very least the perception of an underclass, and not only that, but also tying it to race or ethnicity. This _is _a duck.


I think you've done an admirable job of stating your beliefs about the topic, Mattias.  However, I also think there is enough room for many different beliefs in this thread.  I may not agree with some opinions, but I sure don't plan to criticize anybody for giving an honest opinion.  Surely Siavash is smart enough to know that the opinions expressed in here don't represent absolute truth.  I certainly hope so.


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## Andygc

Mattias, we do know that Siavash has found it difficult to understand some of the posts in this thread, so is perhaps unlikely to find the dialect of Afro-Americans perfectly natural. I agree that words like "underclass" are pejorative and unhelpful when discussing language. Maybe "subculture" would be preferable, but perhaps even that seems negative. However, what's a duck - other than a bird, lowering the head, or being out first ball? (Please don't answer, it would be off topic. I'm just pointing out that a duck isn't any more universal than a dawg.)


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## perpend

Siavash2015 said:


> I'm curious about them coz I come across them in movies And also if they're not lame  to say I'd use them, but from the discussion in this forum, I figure I should be careful using them



I think if your friends also hear the phrases in movies, and you are jesting/joking amongst one another, it's no big deal.

I myself wouldn't walk up to someone on the street and address him/her as "hey home boy/girl".

Why is this of interest to you, Siavash (I know that's a little personal). No need to answer.

Take care!


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## Siavash2015

perpend said:


> I think if your friends also hear the phrases in movies, and you are jesting/joking amongst one another, it's no big deal.
> 
> I myself wouldn't walk up to someone on the street and address him/her as "hey home boy/girl".
> 
> Why is this of interest to you, Siavash (I know that's a little personal). No need to answer.
> 
> Take care!


Thank you perpend, actually I don't have any interest in using them, but let's say I went on a trip to an African American neighborhood in US, a guy  comes over and call me homie or dawg, I should keep up. You'know I think these kind of information should be incorporated into dictionaries so that language learners don't get puzzled..I looked up all the dictionaries available but they unanimously mention: dawg/pal/homie/chum etc mean (a close friend)''  it's like these words aren't part of natural English. When we non-native speakers run into a word like that we get confused. I bet many non-native speakers use these terms without knowing if they're sarcastic and offensive in most settings.


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## MattiasNYC

Andygc said:


> Mattias, we do know that Siavash has found it difficult to understand some of the posts in this thread, so is perhaps unlikely to find the dialect of Afro-Americans perfectly natural.



I fail to see how it would be (inherently) any harder to understand than other forms of English. It all depends on what the starting point is.



Andygc said:


> I agree that words like "underclass" are pejorative and unhelpful when discussing language. Maybe "subculture" would be preferable, but perhaps even that seems negative.



I prefer "subculture" to "underclass". The latter is to me clearly suggesting a hierarchy of value whereas the former does not. One could say that within American culture subcultures exist. Arguably one could then maybe say that there's such a thing as "black" culture, as well as "southern culture", or "mid-western" or whatever, without ranking them according to which is "better". By telling people to avoid a dialect _and_ then calling it "underclass" language _and_ then tying that in turn to a demographic based on race one is most certainly perpetuating that perception and division.


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## Andygc

Siavash, a word like "pal" or "chum" can be friendly or hostile. Both are current English - and "mate" - certainly all in BE.
"John and Fred are pals/chums/mates." = John and Fred are friends.
"Look, pal/chum/mate, if you say that again I'll punch you on the nose." = The people are not friends.
I don't know if the same is true of "dawg" and "homie".


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## MattiasNYC

I think Andygc's description is very good.


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## perpend

Siavash2015 said:


> Thank you perpend, actually I don't have any interest in using them, but let's say I went on a trip to an African American neighborhood in US, a guy  comes over and call me homie or dawg, I should keep up. You'know I think these kind of information should be incorporated into dictionaries so that language learners don't get puzzled..I looked up all the dictionaries available but they unanimously mention: dawg/pal/homie/chum etc mean (a close friend)''  it's like these words aren't part of natural English. When we non-native speakers run into a word like that we get confused. I bet many non-native speakers use these terms without knowing if they're sarcastic and offensive in most settings.



You are right, Siavish. There isn't much guidance from native speakers on these phrases.

The knee-jerk reaction is most often "Don't use them".

I can understand your confusion. Often the only guidance is Urban Dictionary, which is hard to decipher.

I am agreeing that regular dictionaries should be more open to how people really speak.

Maybe there should be a slang American English forum on WR.

Anyway, dawg of mine, Siavish---big ups for maintaining the dialogue.

Word out.


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## Siavash2015

Thank you Andy


Andygc said:


> Siavash, a word like "pal" or "chum" can be friendly or hostile. Both are current English - and "mate" - certainly all in BE.
> "John and Fred are pals/chums/mates." = John and Fred are friends.
> "Look, pal/chum/mate, if you say that again I'll punch you on the nose." = The people are not friends.
> I don't know if the same is true of "dawg" and "homie".


Thank you Andy, so people sometimes use it  while they're going to threaten someone else? As in you mentioned:
Hey pal/chun/mate if you do it again I'll sock you in the kisser
It seems you mean while threatening someone they're used..as a term of address they're used for threatening right?


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## DonnyB

perpend said:


> You are right, Siavish. There isn't much guidance from native speakers on these phrases.
> 
> The knee-jerk reaction is most often "Don't use them".
> 
> I can understand your confusion. Often the only guidance is Urban Dictionary, which is hard to decipher.


Both "dawg" and "homie" are listed in Urban Dictionary, in fact.  

Although contributions there are made by "ordinary" speakers of the language and therefore aren't always representative, I don't see that they're any less valid than our meagre attempts to define how we see these words being used.


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## perpend

DonnyB said:


> Both "dawg" and "homie" are listed in Urban Dictionary, in fact.
> 
> Although contributions there are made by "ordinary" speakers of the language and therefore aren't always representative, I don't see that they're any less valid than our meagre attempts to define how we see these words being used.



Which means that you trust Urban Dictionary as a reputable source, Donny?


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## DonnyB

perpend said:


> Which means that you trust Urban Dictionary as a reputable source, Donny?


Which means it sometimes all we've got, apart from our own sometimes biased preconceptions about "underclasses" or "subcultures".


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## perpend

Which means, and I think that's part of the sentiment of the thread: why can't we find such definitions in accepted/standard dictionaries?

Effen inhumane, if you feel me.


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## Siavash2015

perpend said:


> You are right, Siavish. There isn't much guidance from native speakers on these phrases.
> 
> The knee-jerk reaction is most often "Don't use them".
> 
> I can understand your confusion. Often the only guidance is Urban Dictionary, which is hard to decipher.
> 
> I am agreeing that regular dictionaries should be more open to how people really speak.
> 
> Maybe there should be a slang American English forum on WR.
> 
> Anyway, dawg of mine, Siavish---big ups for maintaining the dialogue.
> 
> Word out.


Thank you buddy, for your amazing up to date informations, bye


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## perpend

You are welcome, buddy!


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## Copperknickers

Siavash2015 said:


> Thank you perpend, actually I don't have any interest in using them, but let's say I went on a trip to an African American neighborhood in US, a guy  comes over and call me homie or dawg, I should keep up. You'know I think these kind of information should be incorporated into dictionaries so that language learners don't get puzzled..I looked up all the dictionaries available but they unanimously mention: dawg/pal/homie/chum etc mean (a close friend)''  it's like these words aren't part of natural English. When we non-native speakers run into a word like that we get confused. I bet many non-native speakers use these terms without knowing if they're sarcastic and offensive in most settings.



Don't think you're the only one who's confused. I would argue the main reason they aren't clearly labelled in dictionaries is that there is a LOT of variation in how these words are used: they can be markers of class, of location, of disposition (which is to say, friendly or unfriendly)... it would be impossible to properly explain the word 'pal' for example in a dictionary. In Scotland for example we use pal very commonly, and even as a native speaker I would not be sure how to use the word in other English varieties: I know for example it is often used in parts of the Eastern United states, specifically Boston and New York, so it's not as rare as some people in this thread claim among younger speakers. 

I think if you can make any simple comment on the words dawg/pal/homie/chum/boy/mate/brother, it is that they are all words which originally meant 'close friend', as a noun (e.g. 'He's one of my dawgs/homies/chums/pals'), but have now taken on an extra function, that of an informal address 'Hey there my brother, what's up dawg, hello there pal'. Like any informal address, you can use it towards friends, or you can use it to be friendly towards people you don't know. 

If you're in the habit of addressing people you don't know very informally (as is common in Australia or Scotland, less common in Southern England or white America) then the words soon take on a neutral tone. You might have heard the joke 'You have made a powerful enemy today, my friend.' - 'my friend' can literally mean that someone is your friend, or it can just be a way of addressing someone ('Hello my friend, what can I do for you?'). When you use it to address people a lot, eventually you forget the literal meaning and just see it as just another way of addressing someone, similar to 'sir' or 'mister'. The offensiveness comes from the fact that mate/pal/etc. are informal unlike 'sir': speaking informally to a friend is more friendly than speaking formally, but speaking informally to an enemy is very impolite, so comes across as even more aggressive than if you had called them 'sir'. Look at this example:

'Hello *sir*, how are you today?'
'Do you remember me from yesterday?'
'I'm sorry *sir*, I don't.'
'You sold me a toothbrush. It is broken, I want my money back'.
'I'm sorry to hear that *sir*. Do you have the receipt?'
'No I don't have the bloody receipt, look! It's broken!'
'There's no need to be rude *sir*.'
'Just give me my money back you fool!'
'Listen *mate*, if you don't calm down I'm calling security.'

So you can see how 'mate', ordinarily a positive word, has taken on an aggressive meaning. Because the shopkeeper has switched from 'sir' to 'mate', he is obviously no longer making an effort to be polite. That could either be because he wanted to drop the formal tone and be more friendly, or because he no longer cared about being polite. From the context, you know that he is angry, and so the latter is true: 'It's my job to address you politely, but you're making my job difficult so I'm not going to bother any more'. Compare the same shopkeeper meeting someone else:

'Hello sir, how are you today?'
'Do you remember me? Paul? We went to high school together'
'Paul! Of course! How are you doing mate?'

I hope this explains how the same word can come across as aggressive or friendly depending on context: the link is informality: you have to judge whether informality is appropriate, and you have to judge how informally a word will be recieved. That's very difficult to do if you are not a native speaker: I know as a Scot that nobody will think is strange if I call them 'pal', although Americans would find it rather exotic. If I called someone 'dawg', they'd be a little put off, but since I am young and dress in urban clothing they would still understand, though they might judge me for being somewhat lower class. 

The reason we can't give a simple explanation on how you should use words like 'dawg' is that they are heavily dependent on where you are from and who you are talking to. Usually, native English speakers will use either dawg/mate/pal etc. depending on where they grew up, what class they grew up in, etc, and thus people will be able to tell from their accent and appearance what is meant. But rules like that don't apply to foreigners so its very difficult to tell what is 'right' for a foreigner to use, which is why we advise you to stick to standard English and just use 'my friend' until you've been living in an English speaking area for a few years and have started to develop a regional flavour to the rest of your English. 

In short, once you no longer have to ask how to use 'dawg/homie/pal', then you can start using them.


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## Keith Bradford

Nobody seems to have made the simple point that, if you use unconventional English, you narrow your range of being understood.  I, for example, never knew until today that in some dialects "dawg" means friend. So I would advise foreign learners not to use these terms except when they're quite sure that their listener uses them.

In fact, I suggest you avoid "dawg" altogether.  At worst you'll sound ridiculous, pretending to adopt a vernacular which isn't your own; at worst you'll get a punch in the face or more.  If an Iranian - or indeed anyone else - called me "dawg" (which, after all means *dog*), I'd get very angry!


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## MattiasNYC

Keith Bradford said:


> At worst you'll sound ridiculous, pretending to adopt a vernacular which isn't your own;



If "your own" means the one one grows up with then no vernacular, no matter how conventional, is "one's own", by definition. If it on the other hand means one which is somehow internalized, then it can be either conventional or not, it doesn't matter, as long as it's internalized. Again I get the feeling this is really about something else.



Keith Bradford said:


> at worst you'll get a punch in the face or more.  If an Iranian - or indeed anyone else - called me "dawg" (which, after all means *dog*), I'd get very angry!



That's pretty silly. If an Iranian called me "dawg" I'd be confused and wonder if they like some other middle-easterners consider dogs to be filthy and it was an insult... but assuming I hear a foreign accent on the person I'd certainly find it reasonable that their usage of the word could be one out of many... _and I'd subsequently simply wait for context to ascertain the meaning of the word_, in case it wasn't obvious (i.e. a smiling happy Iranian with open arms so he can hug me while wearing a Tupac T-shirt.....).....


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## Copperknickers

MattiasNYC said:


> If "your own" means the one one grows up with then no vernacular, no matter how conventional, is "one's own", by definition. If it on the other hand means one which is somehow internalized, then it can be either conventional or not, it doesn't matter, as long as it's internalized. Again I get the feeling this is really about something else.



Not quite sure I understand this. 'One's own vernacular' is the vernacular of the area and social class to which one belongs (usually because you grew up there, sometimes because you have lived there for a long time and picked it up). Unless you are lucky enough to come from a high social class in a prestigious region (e.g. the Home Counties in the UK), your vernacular is not going to be the same as any conventional standard English variety. 'Dawg' is native to the African American vernacular, but as a result of mixed race schooling and substantial media proliferation of the dialect it is widely understood and occasionally used by people who are not part of the usual demographic to which the vernacular belongs. 

Keith Bradford rightly states that any kind of vernacular or dialect which is dissimilar to standard American or British English is likely to present difficulties to a foreign English learner. While I disagree that African American English should be regarded as a marker of an 'underclass', I think most people in this thread, including Keith, are simply saying that it's not realistic to expect older speakers, especially those outside America, to understand AAV words.


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## MattiasNYC

Copperknickers said:


> Not quite sure I understand this. 'One's own vernacular' is the vernacular of the area and social class to which one belongs (usually because you grew up there, sometimes because you have lived there for a long time and picked it up).



I understand that, and by that definition NO vernacular is "one's own" if one is an Iranian studying English, right? Or Japanese. Or Hungarian. It's all _not_ one's own vernacular, because one's own vernacular would be the vernacular of one's own area which would be Iran, Japan or Hungary.... and Farsi, Japanese and Hungarian...


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## Siavash2015

Wow, that was an awesome explanation Copperknickers, thanks awefully


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## Copperknickers

MattiasNYC said:


> I understand that, and by that definition NO vernacular is "one's own" if one is an Iranian studying English, right? Or Japanese. Or Hungarian. It's all _not_ one's own vernacular, because one's own vernacular would be the vernacular of one's own area which would be Iran, Japan or Hungary.... and Farsi, Japanese and Hungarian...



Well, your native vernacular would be a dialect of your native language of course. But as an English language learner, you have an 'adopted' English vernacular, namely the standard dialect of either American English or British English which you are taught.* And if you deviate from the standard and start intermingling it with other vernaculars, you're going to incur a considerable degree of misunderstanding, because unlike a native speaker people have no point of reference if they can't go by your accent. Or they just won't understand it at all if it's not something they've come across before, as Keith pointed out (I admit it hadn't occurred to me that 'dawg' was not widely known: certainly all native English speakers know what 'pal', 'mate', and 'chum' mean even if they would not use them themselves.)

*Except if you use the standard variety of English it's not usually referred to as a 'vernacular', its just seen as the default way of speaking, similar to how we use the term 'regional accent' in the UK to mean an accent from outlying regions, even though recieved pronounciation does have its own region, namely the Home Counties region. So RP is also a 'regional accent' in literal terms, though you'll never hear it referred to as such. Anyway that's for another thread.


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## Keith Bradford

I distinguish between *standard *(British, American, Australian etc.) English and *vernacular *(regional, class or racial) versions.

If a person who is not raised in my area speaks to me in the local accent and with the local vocabulary, I will assume that they have perhaps learnt this vernacular variant on the spot and that they have been raised here.  Or I may suppose that they are imitating something learnt at a distance; this may lead me to think that they are being patronising or pretentious.

But the issue of _dawg/homie_, the original question, is different.  This is not my local vernacular, I don't automatically understand it and I have to take it as I find it.  So let's assume that I find *homie *to be incomprehensible, and *dawg *as an insulting pronunciation of _dog_.

So I advise foreign learners to avoid both.  Is that clear?

[I speak here as the average listener, not the highly-sophisticated and worldly-wise Keith Bradford that I really am, of course .]


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## Barque

Siavash2015 said:


> but let's say I went on a trip to an African American neighborhood in US, a guy comes over and call me homie or dawg, I should keep up.



Is this a likely situation? I get the impression "dawg" and "homie" are more likely to be used towards people whom the speaker knows reasonably well, unlike words like mate in BE and pal in Scotland which seem to be words you could use with a stranger in an informal setting.


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