# National Spelling Bee



## TRG

Last night I watched on tv the national spelling bee competition which you can learn about here.  It was fun and I have to confess I couldn't spell any of the words, none of which I had ever even heard of before.  There were numerous foreign words, especially French.  I am just wondering if this is a uniquely American phenomenon or is this done the world over?


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## french4beth

According to wikipedia, it's mainly a US phenomenon, but other English-speaking countries, particularly Canada, also have spelling bees. Not sure if they have foreign words in their competitions.

I also took a look at the above link, and I would have been stumped - it looked like there needed to be a spell check ;o)

From a former state 3rd place spelling bee contestant...


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## Outsider

There are no national spelling bees around here. There are sometimes TV game shows where you need to know how to spell correctly to win.


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## Pedro y La Torre

TRG said:


> Last night I watched on tv the national spelling bee competition which you can learn about here.  It was fun and I have to confess I couldn't spell any of the words, none of which I had ever even heard of before.  There were numerous foreign words, especially French.



What happens if you spell labor as labour? Will they disqualify you?


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## Fernando

At least it is not a Spanish interest. Our language is quite (not completely) phonetical, so only a limited amount of words have some emotion.


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## jonquiliser

I think it's entirely unheard of here - I at least have never come across something like that. Learning how to spell, in school, never involved competition (more than usually in terms of grades and marks..), it was simply an exam subject among others. Finnish is relatively phonetical (or, it's actually very phonetical) so that wouldn't even be of much interest. Swedish, well, it's not that it's so phonetical, spelling contests just don't seem to be all that exciting . I think I've heard France is keen on them, though .


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## Outsider

Mind you, I would like to see spelling become a national competition in Portugal. Bring on the Americanization!


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## Kajjo

No spelling bees in Germany. Almost no school competitions in Germany, anyway.

Kajjo


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## Musical Chairs

Learning (more like memorizing) how to spell at the national spelling bee level is pretty useless.



Pedro y La Torre said:


> What happens if you spell labor as labour? Will they disqualify you?



No. But this isn't something they'd ask at the national level anyway.


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## DearPrudence

jonquiliser said:


> Learning how to spell, in school, never involved competition (more than usually in terms of grades and marks..), it was simply an exam subject among others.


Like Jonquiliser said, spelling is not only for the "elite" in France (I mean, as I understand it, only kids interested in that competition will study or register I suppose) & it's a subject at school, all students are involved & can't opt out. 



jonquiliser said:


> I think I've heard France is keen on them, though .


I think in England for instance you don't have a lot of dictations in class while we have them quite often in France. The closest thing we had (more here) is "la dictée de Pivot" (or "les Dicos d'or") (Pivot's dictation) which was a very difficult dictation for people of all ages & the final of which was broadcast. There were very difficult words but also problems with grammar & agreements ...


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## Musical Chairs

Oh! How do they do dictations in France? In my class, the teacher reads everything one time normally (so everyone knows what it's about), then another time pausing every few words, then reads the passage through one last time.


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## DearPrudence

Ouch, it's been such a long time ... 
I think that the teacher read the text through once, just to see what it was about.
Then, reading slowly & I suppose rereading each sentence (& don't forget to say "full stop/period, comma, inverted commas, à la ligne, 2 petits carreaux, point final") & pronouncing very distinctly, sometimes helping you a lot pronouncing letters you're not supposed to (ex: elle s'est couchée -> elle s'est couchée - éeu )
And a final rereading to check ...

I think a dictation (in French at least because of the grammar problems (agreement with the "avoir" auxiliary ...)) makes much more sense that reciting disconnected words that you will never use ...


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## jinti

Actually, I think there's more benefit to spelling bees than memorizing a bunch of disconnected words.

The kids who can compete at a high level (not necessarily national, but let's say at least at their school level or higher) are studying definitions, etymologies, Latin and Greek roots/prefixes/suffixes, etc.  They're learning to recognize patterns associated with meanings at a rather sophisticated level.  They are NOT just randomly memorizing a bunch of spellings.  (In fact, spelling bees generally give the kids the definition of the word as well as the word contextualized in a sentence and the definition, upon request, so that they can better draw on what they know.)  That's how they handle all those foreign words and the other really tricky ones.  Not straight memorization.

The idea is that even if they never use those exact words in conversation or budget reports when they grow up, they've learned a lot along the way that will serve them well.


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## sinclair001

I think is a fun way to get more acquaitance with the maternal and daily language.
The learning of ethymologies latin and greek is very useful. I did in my early college years and believe it or not, is real.


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## DearPrudence

And maybe they will write things like:
"Their very happy to have bean invited to the party" 

My only concern here was that I'm under the impression that it's reserved to the few only & that the rest of the class is left behind & that in "ordinary classes", there is not much work done on spelling ...


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## jinti

At least when I was a little kid, we had spelling as a regular school subject right alongside reading, math, geography, etc.  Spelling bees were common at the class and school level, never mind the few major competitions that get all the press.  Those major competitions ARE elite (just as a children's orchestra is more elite than a school music class, or a national art competition for children is more elite than having kids show their artwork to each other during art class).  But a regular old class bee was considered a normal, fun way to practice spelling while playing a game -- certainly more fun than just endless spelling tests (which we also got ).  I'm surprised that it seems to be controversial....


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## DearPrudence

Ouh la, wait, I'm not _against _it but I just hope other things are done as well for spelling. I was surprised to see the state of spelling in England for instance. But if you do both, that's alright then


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## lizzeymac

I am a bit surprised at the reactions to it as well. We are not talking about parent-driven children, are we?  We are speaking about voluntary participation.

In terms of the benefits offered by studying for spelling bees, I can't say better than Jinti's excellent counterpoint:



> The kids who can compete at a high level (not necessarily national, but let's say at least at their school level or higher) are studying definitions, etymologies, Latin and Greek roots/prefixes/suffixes, etc. They're learning to recognize patterns associated with meanings at a rather sophisticated level.  They are NOT just randomly memorizing a bunch of spellings. (In fact, spelling bees generally give the kids the definition of the word as well as the word contextualized in a sentence and the definition, upon request, so that they can better draw on what they know.) That's how they handle all those foreign words and the other really tricky ones. Not straight memorization.
> 
> The idea is that even if they never use those exact words in conversation or budget reports when they grow up, they've learned a lot along the way that will serve them well.


At least one forer@ mentioned that there were many "foreign" words in the competitions.  Read an English dictionary - it's crammed full of "foreign" words.  I am under the impression that English has at least as many words of foreign origin as any other language. In order to navigate our own language it is necessary to study at least some basic concepts of other languages. 

There seems to be a difference in perception between athletic competitions and scholarly competitions. The spelling bees are the academic equivalent to the athletic competitions which are the path to high school and college sports (and college scholarships)  and potentially, the Olympics.  Why is participating in spelling bees considered so very different from competing in gymnastics or soccer or tennis or fencing or swimming races or other sports teams?  And how is this different from chess competitions?  Or debate team and forensic speaking competitions? These are all voluntary competitions.  Is _any_ kind of competition for children considered unhealthy outside of America? 

I think there are more than a few misconceptions about the difference between  spelling bees at the national, state, and regional levels, and the "normal" spelling bee that might happen in an English class. Children who decide to enter higher level competitions do their studying on their own time or with private coaches, not in their regular classes.

Holding a spelling bee in an English class is not that much more competitive & stressful than the everyday activities in class. In the course of any regular class the teacher asks a question and some or all of the students raise their hands to indicate they have an answer.   Whoever the teacher selects has to stand up in front of everyone and present their answer. It's possible that their answer will be incomplete or "wrong," and some other student will stand up and give the "correct" answer.   I remember that as being fairly stressful competition, especially when I was the person giving the wrong answer. Children do this all day long in school, in every class. A spelling bee is usually just a way to make studying vocabulary fun.


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## ILT

We don't have spelling bees in México, being our language mostly phonetical it would be kind of boring. However, truly bilingual schools in the northern border hold spelling bees as part of their English curricula. As mentioned above, all children have to study to participate in the school's internal spelling bee, but competing with other schools is reserved to the ones with the skill and the will.

I think that just as any competition, it is healthy and good for the child when the child participates for the right reasons: he/she is competitive, he/she wants to do it, he/she likes learning all those words, etc., not just to please an overzealous parent who likes to brag about the child's habilities. At my son's school they make it fun and as stress free as possible, and I thank them for that.


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## TRG

lizzeymac said:


> I am a bit surprised at the reactions to it as well. We are not talking about parent-driven children, are we?  We are speaking about voluntary participation.
> 
> In terms of the benefits offered by studying for spelling bees, I can't say better than Jinti's excellent counterpoint:
> 
> At least one forer@ mentioned that there were many "foreign" words in the competitions.  Read an English dictionary - it's crammed full of "foreign" words.  I am under the impression that English has at least as many words of foreign origin as any other language. In order to navigate our own language it is necessary to study at least some basic concepts of other languages.
> 
> There seems to be a difference in perception between athletic competitions and scholarly competitions. The spelling bees are the academic equivalent to the athletic competitions which are the path to high school and college sports (and college scholarships)  and potentially, the Olympics.  Why is participating in spelling bees considered so very different from competing in gymnastics or soccer or tennis or fencing or swimming races or other sports teams?  And how is this different from chess competitions?  Or debate team and forensic speaking competitions? These are all voluntary competitions.  Is _any_ kind of competition for children considered unhealthy outside of America?
> 
> I think there are more than a few misconceptions about the difference between  spelling bees at the national, state, and regional levels, and the "normal" spelling bee that might happen in an English class. Children who decide to enter higher level competitions do their studying on their own time or with private coaches, not in their regular classes.
> 
> Holding a spelling bee in an English class is not that much more competitive & stressful than the everyday activities in class. In the course of any regular class the teacher asks a question and some or all of the students raise their hands to indicate they have an answer.   Whoever the teacher selects has to stand up in front of everyone and present their answer. It's possible that their answer will be incomplete or "wrong," and some other student will stand up and give the "correct" answer.   I remember that as being fairly stressful competition, especially when I was the person giving the wrong answer. Children do this all day long in school, in every class. A spelling bee is usually just a way to make studying vocabulary fun.



I also agree with what Jinti said, but the young man who won the competition claimed that he really didn't find spelling interesting because it was "just memorization".  That's easy for him say!

As for "foreign words", I knew that was not the best way to describe what happened when I wrote it, but I was just a little lazy.  I didn't mean to suggest there is anything wrong with them, but they are a great source of words whose pronunciations and spellings do not jibe or follow regular English spelling and pronunciation, if there is such a thing


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## lizzeymac

Hi TRG  

I didn't assume you meant anything negative by "foreign words" - it is accurate.  
I was a bit surprised that some of the words in the spelling bee were almost archaic.  One word was a name for a surgical instrument that, according to  my neighbor, a surgeon, was considered old-fashioned when he went to medical school in 1946.

I think that the preponderance of "foreign" words is one of the reasons why learning spelling and etymology, either in class or for a spelling bee, should be stressed in English classes. Other languages have, to some degree, more consistent spelling & pronunciation, and have less diverse wood roots. 

Before the spelling bee itself, they broadcast interviews with the some of the participants.  Several of the kids mentioned how often they run into words they do not "know" and that they rely on definition of the word in combination with the sound of the word, and their knowledge of basic Latin and Greek and French to make an educated guess at the spelling.


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## steffiegomez

ILT said:


> We don't have spelling bees in México, being our language mostly phonetical it would be kind of boring. However, truly bilingual schools in the northern border hold spelling bees as part of their English curricula. As mentioned above, all children have to study to participate in the school's internal spelling bee, but competing with other schools is reserved to the ones with the skill and the will.
> 
> I think that just as any competition, it is healthy and good for the child when the child participates for the right reasons: he/she is competitive, he/she wants to do it, he/she likes learning all those words, etc., not just to please an overzealous parent who likes to brag about the child's habilities. At my son's school they make it fun and as stress free as possible, and I thank them for that.


Hi, last month there was the spelling bee at my son´s school. It is a bilingual school, and as far as I know there are a few that have this competitions in Mexico City, starting in 4th grade (11-12 years old). Children were very exited, and I can tell you I honestly had NO IDEA what my oldest was talking about when he signed up to participate. He did not win, but I think it was a very good experience for him, and most important he was very happy to do it...
Saludos


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## avok

TRG said:


> Last night I watched on tv the national spelling bee competition which you can learn about here. It was fun and I have to confess I couldn't spell any of the words, none of which I had ever even heard of before. There were numerous foreign words, especially French. I am just wondering if this is a uniquely American phenomenon or is this done the world over?


 
Hi, 

There is no national spelling bee competition here either. Not just because Turkish is a phonetical language but also Turkish pupils are obliged to deal, let's say, with harder subjects.

Don't get me wrong but would not it be wiser to learn a foreign language than memorizing how to spell some odd words which have barely any use in daily life.


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## JamesM

avok said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is no national spelling bee competition here either. Not just because Turkish is a phonetical language but also Turkish pupils are obliged to deal, let's say, with harder subjects.
> 
> Don't get me wrong but would not it be wiser to learn a foreign language than memorizing how to spell some odd words which have barely any use in daily life.


 
Why would you assume that they don't also learn more difficult subjects?  

Spelling does not take the place of other subjects in the U.S.  It's an additional skill, required by our language because of its mixed history.


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## avok

JamesM said:


> Why would you assume that they don't also learn more difficult subjects?
> 
> They sure learn more difficult subjects but are they as popular as the National Spelling Bee?
> 
> Spelling does not take the place of other subjects in the U.S. It's an additional skill, required by our language because of its mixed history.
> 
> 
> An additional skill is always good, of course.


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## JamesM

The National Spelling Bee is not a subject. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here. It's a voluntary competition that students choose to enter. Spelling is one of many subjects taught under the umbrella of "Language Skills" in the U.S. 

You might want to read up on the Academic Decathlon, another voluntary competition in the United States. Our local high school has the honor of having been national champions twice in the last nine years. It's a very prestigious competition and academically very rigorous, requiring both a broad general knowledge and an in-depth knowledge of the year's topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Decathlon

Please don't assume because you hear of one popular competition in the U.S. that it is the _only_ or _primary _competition in the U.S. We have many competitions; we are a very competitive society.  The Spelling Bee is just one of many national competitions here.


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## ukuca

In Turkish, spelling is not a big deal because you can say any word (not %100 of course) just by knowing the names (the sounds) of its letters in the alphabet and we always pronounce all the letters of a word. It's a very phonetic language if that's the word


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## avok

JamesM said:


> The National Spelling Bee is not a subject. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here. It's a voluntary competition that students choose to enter. Spelling is one of many subjects taught under the umbrella of "Language Skills" in the U.S.
> 
> You might want to read up on the Academic Decathlon, another voluntary competition in the United States. Our local high school has the honor of having been national champions twice in the last nine years. It's a very prestigious competition and academically very rigorous, requiring both a broad general knowledge and an in-depth knowledge of the year's topic.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Decathlon
> 
> Please don't assume because you hear of one popular competition in the U.S. that it is the _only_ or _primary _competition in the U.S. We have many competitions; we are a very competitive society.  The Spelling Bee is just one of many national competitions here.


 
You are right , I have just read about the USAD, it looks harder, of course. Spelling must be for smaller kids. Is your school Moorpark High School?
Bye


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## Cheesee = Madness

avok said:


> Spelling must be for smaller kids.




We have a yearly National spelling bee, and I do believe that the winner wins cash ($10,000ish if I can remember correctly) and often our best couple of national competitors go down to the US and participate in some of their spelling bees. (Just looked it and up one of "ours" was in the Scripps National Spelling Bee in Washington, D.C. and got second place. $35,000 bucks is a nice chunk of change.... wish I could spell .)


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## Cabeza tuna

TRG said:


> Last night I watched on tv the national spelling bee competition which you can learn about here. It was fun and I have to confess I couldn't spell any of the words, none of which I had ever even heard of before. There were numerous foreign words, especially French. I am just wondering if this is a uniquely American phenomenon or is this done the world over?


 
Here in Chile the spelling bee is unknow for everyone excepto a few, but contest of that i never see, but for example when my litle sisters (they are twins) stars to wirte and read we make family spelling bees, and was really fun, until know when we found new words we make speeling bees.


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## Broccolicious

We don't have spelling bees here, and the film _Spellbound_ was a surprise hit when it came out recently - I think we were all fascinated (and highly amused) by how seriously children and their parents take it all. I, for one, hadn't realised it was such a huge phenomenon in the US!



DearPrudence said:


> I was surprised to see the state of spelling in England for instance.


 
?!


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## ernest_

I didn't know about spelling bees until I saw an episode from The Simpsons or some such other American TV show. A few years ago they did a spelling contest on the telly, in which students from different schools competed with each other, and they obviously got the idea from those spelling bees in America. It was not as boring as ah would have thought


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## pickypuck

The Deparment of Education of Extremadura celebrates a spelling bee every year. There are two categories: Intermediate high schoolers (E.S.O.) and Upper high schoolers (Bachillerato). The winner in the Upper schooler category, as well as winning 1 000 euros, represents Extremadura in the National Hispanoamerican Spelling Bee.
Regards,
pickypuck


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## miguel64086

Fernando said:


> At least it is not a Spanish interest. Our language is quite (not completely) phonetical, so only a limited amount of words have some emotion.



The pattern seems to be no spelling bees in Latinoamerica either...
Let me tell you a funny story from when I was little living in Chile...

Since most of our TV comes from the US, I remember watching a movie when I was little, sorry I don´t remember the title, but it was about a family that adopts a little girl from a refugee camp in South East Asia or maybe it was Africa...  The thing is that the little girl learns English so well as to win a Regional Spelling Bee contest...

Well... for really, really long time I couldn´t figure out why it was such a huge thing to win a spelling bee contest since spelling is sooo easy (the movie was translated to Spanish) 
Little I know that it was an anglophone tradition...


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## pickypuck

miguel64086 said:


> The pattern seems to be no spelling bees in Latinoamerica either...


 
Qué tal, miguel64086.

Existe un Concurso Hispanoamericano de Ortografía. Si pones en Google este nombre verás noticias de periódicos relacionadas con el evento en donde participan muchos países latinoamericanos. Parece ser que es algo que desconocen la mayoría de hispanohablantes, por los aportes que se han hecho hasta ahora. Quizás, porque no es un certamen que lleve haciéndose desde hace décadas, como parece ser el caso de los "spelling bees" anglosajones, sino que va por su séptima u octava edición.
En cuanto a la ortografía del español, si bien es fonética, tenemos la be, la uve, la ge, la jota, la hache, la elle, la i griega..., que pueden causar bastantes problemas. También la zeta, la ce, la ese, cuando se trata de personas ceceantes/seseantes (o aunque no lo sean, cuántas veces habré visto idiosincracia por idiosincrasia o cero positivo por seropositivo). Incluso hay palabras que puede provocar problemas en cuanto a su acentuación. Quizás los participantes en estos foros no veáis la necesidad de estos concursos de ortografía, ya que estáis interesados en los idiomas y eso suele ser una señal de dominar bien el propio. Pero hay mucha gente que escribe con muchas faltas de ortografía. Sólo hay que darse una vuelta por los foros de los periódicos, por ejemplo. Incluso en Google, hay cantidad de "pájinas" con palabras como "absorver" o "contrarestar" (esta última con más entradas que la correcta "contrarrestar", según un hilo que apareció en el foro de "Sólo español" hace poco). Creo que para estos casos, el Concurso Hispanoamericano de Ortografía es una buena idea.
Un saludote


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## miguel64086

ahora que lo mencionas, tienes razón, hay un concursos de ortografía... aunque éstos tiene carácter mas bien escrito que oral.


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