# the people : jumhuriyat



## john welch

*"Republic** of Iraq (Arabic):  جمهورية العراق Jumhūriyyat al-‘Irāq;     Kurdish: كۆماری عێراق Komar-i *‘Êraq, "
    Turkish cumhuriyat.
 Kurdish language is of Iranian and perhaps  _komar _relates to Skr _kumara _: youth, unmarried man.
Babylonian government merged Persian with Chaldean terms, such as Iran. Kambujiya  ( Cyrus Cambyses) , Bab. kambuzi, possibly Heb. _cham buts_ : cloth of kings and priests.   Gr. _byssos, byses_ : fine cloth.  ( But I don't suggest that kam = kumara).
Arabic j_umhuriyyat_ has the sense of : the public, most of the people. Then is Kurdish _komara_ a cultural link with Skr  _kumara_ : prince ? 


Czech Republic.Kurdish:*Komara* Çêkiyayê


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## CapnPrep

Do you remember, you had this long thread about _cumhuriyet_ < _jumhūriyya_ (now closed):
Turkish - Etymology: Cumhuriyet جمهورية

But now your question seems to be about Kurdish _komar_ "republic". I believe it is derived from _kom_ "group", but someone else will have to tell you the further etymology and whether your goats and princes are possibly involved somehow.


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## john welch

Yes I would hope you are correct and that seems to give the goats a push along.
Welsh cymonwlad is _commonwealth_., maybe from the Spanish camarada :_ lads_.
Skr samana and kumara are in there too.
The main game is Tamil kumaragal, Indonesian kumara : _prince_ and Australian Cammeraygal : the comrades' republic.


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## john welch

Hers is jumble of words:
Komarigal Khwar  Is a intermittent stream in the country of Afghanistan.

Komarigal Khwar also goes by the names, Kamarigal Khwar, , Kumari Gal, Kumarigal, Kumarigal'khvar,
---------------------------------
*Mahabad Republic of Kurdistan*The Mahabad *Republic* collapsed due to *Iran's* vigorous response, the Soviet Union's ...*Republic* of Mahabad — کۆماری مەهاباد *Komarî* Mehabad 1946–1947 …
------------------------------
*Kathmandu to Kumarigal by Taxi,  - *
-Kathmandu-44600-*Nepal*
from Kathmandu to *Kumarigal*;


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## Wolverine9

Sanskrit _kumāra _is not connected to Kurdish _komar _or to Arabic _jumhūriyya_.  There is no Iranian cognate of _kumāra, _and Arabic belongs to a different language family_.  _Rather than starting threads on kumarakal (sic) and jumhuriyat (sic) in order to determine a possible Australian connection, it may have been worthwhile to start a thread on Australian _Cammeraygal_ instead.  Maybe someone could have provided you with its etymology.


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## john welch

( double..)


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## john welch

I'm told that Tamil kamarakal :_ princes_ is pronounced kamaragal, so spelling is not reliable when verbal diffusion is proposed.
Austr. cammeray in Eora language is :_ comrades, _as in /camarada/, /gamarada/.  This is oddly similar to the Spanish camarada , and Welsh Cymru / Gymru :_ comrades_.  The Eora suffix -gal is a male collective, resembling Tamil , south Persian -gal plural , and Nepali -gal neighbourhood collective. Kumari-gal : _goddess girls _are community icons in Nepal.
A ship arrived from Indonesia in Bundjalung country to the north of Eora, and -gal is also a collective suffix there.
Bali has cultural parallels with Tamil Nadu and Nepal ( such as : Indra; Gauri shankar. These also may be present in Austr.)
In the absence of Thomas Paine or Oliver Cromwell , collective princes as at the Magna Carta of England were a republic in effect.
( Kumari :  ..., worship of a human represents veneration and recognition of the same supreme in conscious beings.In the Shakta text _Devi Mahatmyam_ or _Chandi_, the goddess is said to have declared that she resides in all female living beings in this universe. The entire ritual of Kumari is based on this verse.)


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## Treaty

john welch said:


> Austr. cammeray in Eora language is :_ comrades, _as in /camarada/, /gamarada/.  This is oddly similar to the Spanish camarada , and Welsh Cymru / Gymru :_ comrades_.



Eora language like other Australian languages (esp. near coast lines) have many loanwords from English, which _gamarada/kammeray _(comrade) may be one. Besides, the etymology of "comrade" seems unrelated to "friendship" or "group" but to "chamber" (Latin camera).


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## john welch

Cammeray is the name of an Aboriginal tribe which existed when the British invaded. Its -gal suffix defines it as a community.The English word *chum :*_friend_ is from "chamber-fellow".  In north Iran, Komar-e is an indicator of towns. Perhaps it relates to _community _or_ common-tribe?_


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## Treaty

john welch said:


> Cammeray is the name of an Aboriginal tribe which existed when the British invaded.
> Its -gal suffix defines it as a community.
> The English word *chum :*_friend_ is from "chamber-fellow"
> In north Iran, Komar-e is an indicator of towns. Perhaps it relates to _community _or_ common-tribe?_


Sorry about that. I thought you are saying that "cammeray" is an Eora word for "comrade" (like "gamarada" is), is it?

Through thousands of years, languages have developed dozens of suffixes and indicators of plurality, used in different grammatical or semantic contexts. They diverged into branches and dialects of each language family, resulting into hundreds of variations. Meanwhile each language kept a different number of them and probably several new were invented by time. Considering the diversity of IE languages, it won't be surprising if a few of the extant variants are similar to those of other languages. Therefore the common _gal/kal/yal _suffix between a few SW Iranian languages, Tamil and some Australian languages doesn't necessarily suggest a kinship or loan. 

I was trying to explain that "comrade" (or as you said "chum") has no root in the notions of friendship, gathering or people. These meanings were emerged relatively recently. Therefore, trying to use this new meaning to find an ancient relationship with other languages (Tamil, IE, Pama-Nyugan) is baseless. This also applies to _cymru_ (from *_com _+ _brogo_). _cymru_ is the current pronunciation of the word and should not be compared to an ancient word like Sanskrit _kumara._

The name _komar_ is not necessarily an indicator of town but maybe the _name_ of it with whatever etymology. For example, _komar-e bālā_ (or _oly__ā_) and _komar-e pā'īn_ (or _sofl__ā_) in in NE Iran mean "high(er) Komar" and "low(er) Komar". There is no reason to jump into your conclusion of _komar_=community.


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## berndf

Words starting with _ko-/co-_ of Latin or Greek origin (_common, Koine_) and with_ ge_- of Germanic origin (_Gemeinde, Gebirge_) usually contain the root IE root _ko-_ _=with, together_. Everything that relates to _camera _is from Greek _καμάρα_. This word itself has no semantic connection with _togetherness_. The original meaning is _vaulted room_ and its etymology is unclear. Any notion of _togetherness_ in words like _comrade _in secondary: _sharing the same room_ (_chamber mate_).


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## john welch

Treaty,
Yes, Eora camarada / cammeray mean _comrade._ This was confirmed to me by an elder who said "Yes , it keeps the people together".  So the country was  _Comrade. gathered_.  This exists as a social club for their men.
I agree, *chamber *does not have etymology for *republic, *but it is an example of modern semantic extension , to _chum_.  Whether the source of * Cymru *is _com brogos or camarada  ( L. camera),_ there is shift to_ comrade.
_Modern komari  is used in Kurdish for the name of foreign , and internal, republics.  So I'm playing with the idea that real institutions are  modern, merged semantics of homonyms.  (* Jomhuri-ye .. Irān  ?) (* and the Arabic etymology is no doubt far removed from cameras).


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## berndf

_Komarî _and _Jumhurî _aren't exactly "homonyms". You need quite a bit of imagination to associate the two words.


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## john welch

Com brogos : _together. borders. _and  _comrades _are not homonyms, allophones, homophones or synonyms. They are further  apart than_ republic : republic.   Jǝmhūri Afġānistān; ,
_ It even looks like the Arabic form is more IE the further east it goes ( except in Pakistan).  Then Indian temples became nagara : _men of the city_ and Nagara meant the government systems of SE Asia and across Australia : Ngara. This was very non-republican so perhaps kumarigal : _princes _was the available expression for an IE komari.


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## mataripis

john welch said:


> *"Republic** of Iraq (Arabic):  جمهورية العراق Jumhūriyyat al-‘Irāq;     Kurdish: كۆماری عێراق Komar-i *‘Êraq, "
> Turkish cumhuriyat.
> Kurdish language is of Iranian and perhaps  _komar _relates to Skr _kumara _: youth, unmarried man.
> Babylonian government merged Persian with Chaldean terms, such as Iran. Kambujiya  ( Cyrus Cambyses) , Bab. kambuzi, possibly Heb. _cham buts_ : cloth of kings and priests.   Gr. _byssos, byses_ : fine cloth.  ( But I don't suggest that kam = kumara).
> Arabic j_umhuriyyat_ has the sense of : the public, most of the people. Then is Kurdish _komara_ a cultural link with Skr  _kumara_ : prince ?
> 
> 
> Czech Republic.Kurdish:*Komara* Çêkiyayê


Kom is related to community? Komara/ komari might be  kamu- you    or.  Kami- we. Plus ara or ari - people  which orang in bahasa and "can be" in Tagalog(ari'- maari) .this give meaning We people or we can be.The problem is J in Jumhuriyat and in my analysis it is Dyum - duman (there) producing meaning there are people.


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## john welch

Yes the roots are different. Skr *kumara* _virgin. unmarried man,_ is perhaps from ku _kiss._ mara  _god of death and love.
_It seems that Spanish camarada  and a "com-" word produced E. *comrade*, different from E. * chumrade. camera.   F chambree. G kamerad.
I'm suggesting that numerous words have been influential in historical times to express similar phonetics for "the people".


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## ancalimon

There is also Proto-Turkic *jom- that might be related.



> Proto-Turkic: *jom-
> 
> Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning: 1 big number, quantity, all 2 to come together, assemble
> Russian meaning: 1 большое число, количество, все 2 собирать(ся)
> Old Turkic: jomɣɨ (OUygh.) 1
> Karakhanid: jomɣɨ (MK) 1, jomɨt- (MK) 2
> Turkish: jumuš- 2 (dial.)
> Middle Turkic: jomut- 2 (Houts.)
> Sary-Yughur: jumɨt-, jumut- 2
> Karaim: jom-, jomul-, jumul- 2
> Comments: EDT 935, ЭСТЯ 4, 219-220.


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## mundiya

john welch said:


> Yes the roots are different. Skr *kumara* _virgin. unmarried man,_ is perhaps from ku _kiss._ mara  _god of death and love.
> _



"kumāra" has been defined for you in a previous thread, and virgin is not one of the definitions.  "kumārī" means girl, maiden, or young woman, which in archaic usage is termed virgin.  You're also wrong about the etymology.


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## john welch

WEll then v_irgin_ is an attribute of the kumar. And pure gold.




कुमारkumAram.young manprincechildsongroomone of the nine names of god of fireboyheir-apparent associated in thekingdom with the reigning monarch youthparrot.pure gold


Again, the roots are not the point. They are different.


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## mundiya

john welch said:


> WEll then v_irgin_ is an attribute of the kumar.



That depends on the context.  For example, it is obviously implicit if referring to a young boy.  But that connotation isn't always there as you can see from the other definitions.  



> And pure gold.



I wouldn't put much emphasis on this definition.


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## berndf

*Thread closed for moderation.*


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## berndf

*Thread reopened.*



john welch said:


> I'm suggesting that numerous words have been influential in historical times to express similar phonetics for "the people".


By which process should this have been achieved?


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## john welch

mundiya
You miss the point. I made a stab in the dark about the roots of_ kumara._ It has no internal link with _komari ._ It's the semantic influence that may be at work.


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## john welch

berndf,
The Welsh cymru_ comrades_ evidently arose at the close of Roman times and start of Saxon Britain. Spanish influence maybe came through Brittany in those days.  Arabic / IE demographics are pre-historic and increased in India with Roman trade stimulus. Its possible that from 1500s there was Spanish input to Skr Indonesian . Portuguese *prau* became the term for Indonesian fishing-boats which reached north Australia  and possibly the *pare-pare* forward parts of Maori ocean-canoes.  So a slight chance that Cammeraygal *camarada* had that origin.
Bactrian Greeks in Afghanistan allowed European terms to meet the Persian -Arabic- Asian traders of the Rome-China high seas. and Eskimos?


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## berndf

I'd say there are far too many "maybes" in this idea for a serious scientific theory.


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## john welch

Chinese tai feng _typhoon _was absolutely  definitely influenced by Arabic tufan, Port. tufao and Gr tuphon. Kurds definitely are exchanging words with Arabs today.
As I don't know what else to say, in this thread my mouth is now closed


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