# 이들 [명사]는... vs. 이 [명사]들은...



## Flooooooooor

Hi all,

A text describing multiple prisons on the Korean Peninsula began:

이들 감옥은...

(This was at 서대문형무소역사관, but I didn't record the rest of the sentence.)

I've seen this construction before, but I don't think I hear it as much. So far, I've learned to construct sentences with the -들 plural marker placed _after_ the noun I'm talking about:

이 감옥들은...
이 사람들은...
이 외국인들은...

Google searches reveal that the first construction is far rarer than the one I'm familiar with, though it shows up plenty with other nouns. Does this other placement of -들 carry any difference in meaning or register? My guess is that it's reserved for more academic writing. Native speakers, would you use this out loud while chilling with your friends? Teaching a seminar? Giving a presentation?

Thanks for the help!


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## RadkeRonnie

I'm not a native speaker, but I can tell you how I feel about this sentence. To me, it sounds very strange to say 감옥들, or to attach 들 to anything inanimate, especially a large institution such as a prison. To me, 사람들, 외국인들, and even 것들 sound fine, but things like 감옥들, 학교들, 교회들 sound strange. I don't think 감옥들 etc. are incorrect, and I'm sure someone somewhere has used them, but they just sound odd to me. 

Then again, I haven't read much high level stuff in Korean, so it's possible that these constructions are used, but just not at the levels that I'm used to.


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## Kross

As far as I know there is no difference between 이 감옥들은 and 이들 감옥은 in meaning. I think it is just a matter of preference. 국립국어원 also confirmed that both expressions are correct and told that the former is ususally the more favorable one.


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## Flooooooooor

Understood. Thank you both!


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## yonh

이 감옥들은 sounds foreign and 이들 감옥은 sounds kind of formal to me. I wouldn't say both in casual talk.


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## Rance

Flooooooooor said:


> Google searches reveal that the first construction is far rarer than the one I'm familiar with, though it shows up plenty with other nouns. Does p!



It is possible that the numbers can be skewed and maybe have to factor out the case of 이들(의), _their_ instead of _these_.



RadkeRonnie said:


> I'm not a native speaker, but I can tell you how I feel about this sentence. To me, it sounds very strange to say 감옥들, or to attach 들 to anything inanimate, especially a large institution such as a prison. To me, 사람들, 외국인들, and even 것들 sound fine, but things like 감옥들, 학교들, 교회들 sound strange.



Using 들 to something inanimate should be fine.



Kross said:


> As far as I know there is no difference between 이 감옥들은 and 이들 감옥은 in meaning. I think it is just a matter of preference. 국립국어원 also confirmed that both expressions are correct and told that the former is ususally the more favorable one.



Has they given any explanation for why one form being more favorable than the other?


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## Flooooooooor

Ahh, thank you Rance for that point on my Google searches. One last question: is it common for formal news articles to omit "의" in cases like "그들의..." and "이들의..."?


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## KDH

Your last question depends on the context. 
"의" is an expression frequently abused even by native Koreans, but "의" (the equivalent of English "of") has a clear role in Korean.

The expressions "그들의  or 이들의" as they are sound natural to me, though.


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## Rance

Flooooooooor said:


> Ahh, thank you Rance for that point on my Google searches. One last question: is it common for formal news articles to omit "의" in cases like "그들의..." and "이들의..."?



Generally speaking, i would not recommend to skip 의 due to ambiguity, but as KDH pointed out people may skip it in a informal coomunication.


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## Flooooooooor

Great. Thanks a lot to both of you!


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