# Zion



## MountZion

Can someone spell "ZION" in Hebrew?

is this correct?   
צִיּוֹן


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## Flaminius

Yes, you spelt Zion correct.

However, could I prevail upon you to give an informative title to your thread next time (Cf. forum rules #4)?


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## MiamianIsraeli

The spelling is correct but there seems to be some odd mark on the yud. It should be noted that the Hebrew pronounciation is not with a "z" but with a "ts."


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## Flaminius

The odd mark on the Yud is a dagesh.  I find it in all the three sources I checked: Milon Morfix, Wikipedia, Ben-Yehuda's.


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## MiamianIsraeli

Flaminius said:


> The odd mark on the Yud is a dagesh.  I find it in all the three sources I checked: Milon Morfix, Wikipedia, Ben-Yehuda's.


 The dagesh would go under not on the side. But ציון isn't spelled with a dagesh. The vowel sound is contained in the vav.


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## Flaminius

It is on the side due to the font style but it comes under Yud in a more traditional type face (Psalm 76:3).


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## Nunty

Isn't it just a dagesh?


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## MiamianIsraeli

Okay, letters can take dageshim without changing the vocalization, that's the first time I've seen it with a yud


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## Nunty

With all due respect, Miamian, do you read much vocalized Hebrew? Look at the Bible or a book of poetry.


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## MiamianIsraeli

Nun-Translator said:


> With all due respect, Miamian, do you read much vocalized Hebrew? Look at the Bible or a book of poetry.


Well, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Of course I've read vocalized Hebrew. Since it's not my first language it was necessary.

Actually, I'm dati so I read the Tanach every Saturday. However, in order to follow better I've started bringing my own bilingual copy to services. I simply don't recall seeing a dagesh in a yud like that. Of course, that's not everyday Hebrew either and it's not much of a focus in ulpan.


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## Nunty

No, of course you didn't offend anyone. It's not everyday, Miamian, and it's probably not in ulpan Hebrew either, but just take a Tanach, open it at random and flip a few pages. Those ol' dotted yuds will start jumping out at you. Try looking at few verbs like וילך to get you started...


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## MiamianIsraeli

Okay, I just opened my copy and turned to the par'sha from last Shabbat, Vayigash. You're right it's actually in the first word and in the vayomer that followed. I just never took note before, thanks.


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## amikama

Have you ever wondered why צִיּוֹן is transliterated as "Zi*yy*on" on the road signs in Israel? The dagesh in yud explains this strange transliteration  (The same goes for הרצלִיָּה = Hertzliyya and similar names.)


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## MiamianIsraeli

amikama said:


> Have you ever wondered why צִיּוֹן is transliterated as "Zi*yy*on" on the road signs in Israel? The dagesh in yud explains this strange transliteration  (The same goes for הרצלִיָּה = Hertzliyya and similar names.)


I never took note. Then again, אין לי מכונית


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