# It's all Greek to me



## Jana337

Hi everyone,
 
what’s the equivalent and the English translation of “it’s all Greek to me” in your mother tongue? This could evolve into a nice exercise in geography.
 
The Germans have “böhmische Dörfer”, Bohemian villages (Bohemia is the western part of the Czech Republic and constitutes some 2/3 of the country’s area).
 
We Czechs (as well as the Slovaks to my knowledge), in turn, associate the absolute lack of comprehensibility with Spanish villages but don’t ask me why!
 
*To je pro mne **španělská vesnice. This is a Spanish village to me*.
 

 
I pass the baton to the Spanish foreros. Comments of anyone else are naturally welcome, too.
 

 
Let’s travel around the globe!
 

 
Jana


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## belén

Well in Spanish we usually say:
Esto me suena a chino, no me hables en chino
It sounds Chinese to me, don't speak in Chinese ...

Cheers from a Spanish village (well a big village, la Villa de Madrid )

PS: I love Kundera so much... I envy you are able to read him in the original language...


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## Jana337

Thank you for the rapid reply.
Chinese to the fore! 

Jana


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## Sev

In french we also say "C'est du chinois !"


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## Manuela

ciao
in italiano si dice "per me e` arabo" ( cioe` "non lo capisco proprio"!!)

tanti saluti
Manuela


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## fetchezlavache

Sev said:
			
		

> In french we also say "C'est du chinois !"



crikey. i thought we said 'c'est de l'hébreu pour moi'...


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## Sev

^Yes, we also say that Fetchez !


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## Carlos Martínez Riera

belen said:
			
		

> Well in Spanish we usually say:
> Esto me suena a chino, no me hables en chino
> It sounds Chinese to me, don't speak in Chinese ...


True... chines is the most popular reference.
We also use _'Arameo', _Arameic, as an impossible language.

Carlos


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## Jana337

> We also use _'Arameo', _Arameic, as an impossible language.


 
Arameic is a dead language, yes. But why "impossible"???

Jana


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## Dalian

well, I can't think of any equivalent of "it's all Greek to me." in Chinese. Is it because Chinese is itself difficult enough as cited in your posts?

but sometimes if we come across something hard to read or understand, we call it "tian shu" (heavenly script). we don't refer to any real language in the world, generally.


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## Carlos Martínez Riera

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Arameic is a dead language, yes. But why "impossible"???
> 
> Jana


 
Impossible to understand, only that.
Carlos


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## Ralf

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The Germans have “böhmische Dörfer”, Bohemian villages ...


Apart from those 'Bohemian villages' we also say "Das kommt mir Spanisch vor" - "that's Spanish to me" which is used when so. feels the vague suspicion that his/her lack of comprehension is caused (combined or intenisified) by a false presumption or explanation.

By the way, it's a nice thread. Thanks a lot, Jana.

Ralf


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## Philippa

belen said:
			
		

> Well in Spanish we usually say:
> Esto me suena a chino, no me hables en chino
> It sounds Chinese to me, don't speak in Chinese ...



Hello Be
Do you also say something with '*basico*' in it? 
It's all greek to me - Todo es chino basico para mí.

Love Philippa


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## belén

^Mmmm...no...I have never heard the "básico" thing...sorry... 

Besos, 
Be


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## cuchuflete

^There is another expression for something that may be incomprehensible, but is stated in lovely words, and sounds quite eloquent...."Me suena palmípedo."
Is that a common expression, or is it from some arcane dialect?

C.


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## dimitra

Hello all! 

In Greece, since we would be considered very bloated to say that "it's all Greek to us" (thus, we can understand everything?!?!?!?!?!?!), we also say "it's chinese to me".


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## Whodunit

Jana, we also say "Das ist Chinesisch für mich - That's all Chinese to me" and it has the same explanation as your "böhmische Dörfer" and Ralf's "Greek ..."


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## smorodina

The Russian equivalent is "it is all a Chinese alphabet to me".


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## Dalian

oooh, I'm indeed surprised to see Chinese is such a dreadfully difficult language in you idioms.


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## Whodunit

^German isn't much easier. I'm surprised, no one posted such a saying with German.


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## Tede

I thought it was kind of interesting that this phrase seems ubiquitous, but different in every language.  We of course say "it's Greek to me", but in German you say "it's Spanish to me" and in Italian "it's Arabic to me".  Those of you that speak Spanish, French, etc, what phrase do these languages use?


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## ~PiCHi~

Well, in spanish it could be "Me suena como griego" Or "Para mí que es Griego"
But I'm not sure of what you're trying to say


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## Like an Angel

Tede said:
			
		

> I thought it was kind of interesting that this phrase seems ubiquitous, but different in every language. We of course say "it's Greek to me", but in German you say "it's Spanish to me" and in Italian "it's Arabic to me". Those of you that speak Spanish, French, etc, what phrase do these languages use?


 
Hi Tede!

In Argentina we literally say "Basic Chinese" that means "chino básico" just _stressing_ the idea that is too hard for me but, we could use it as "It's Chinese for me"... 

I'm sorry for my English, I'm learning it!


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## manuycacu

Philippa said:
			
		

> Do you also say something with '*basico*' in it?
> It's all greek to me - Todo es chino basico para mí.



Yes, when we find something extremely difficult to understand we say: "¡esto es chino básico!"


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## Magg

Tede said:
			
		

> eThose of you that speak Spanish, French, etc, what phrase do these languages use?


(Eso) me suena a chino.

Magg


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## Milja

In Finnish we refer to the Hebrew language saying 'it's totally Hebrew to me' ... as is Finnish to most foreign people.


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## badger

Hi everyone.

Here in Dublin we sometimes say "It's double Dutch to me".

This can refer to another language, or even English if it's very technical or ambiguous.

badge.


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## Tabac

Like an Angel said:
			
		

> In Argentina we literally say "Basic Chinese" that means "chino básico" just _stressing_ the idea that is too hard for me but, we could use it as "It's Chinese for me"...



I'm told by a Greek friend of mine that the expression in Greek uses 'Chinese', as well.


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## charlie2

I speak Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese only) and I am not aware of any similar stock expressions in Chinese. It makes me wonder why. Perhaps that doesn't mean that the others don't know any. I am curious to know.


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## gaer

Sev said:
			
		

> In french we also say "C'est du chinois !"


 
German:

Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof. = It's [all] Greek to me.

Literally: "I understand only 'train-staion' "

NO idea where that came from, but I've seen it and heard it. 

Another:

Das kommt mir spanisch vor. Loosely: It's all Spanish to me.  

No offense to those who speak Spanish please!


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## muspara

Milja said:
			
		

> In Finnish we refer to the Hebrew language saying 'it's totally Hebrew to me' ... as is Finnish to most foreign people.



I know this thread is very old, but I only discovered it now.

If "it's all Hebrew" to you, I just wanted to note that in modern Hebrew we also say "it's Chinese as far as I'm concerned".

I don't think Chinese is mentioned terribly often in the old testament, so I would guess the source is Russian or Argentinian immigration waves in Israel.


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## Artrella

Para mí esto es CHINO BASICO!!!!


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## Like an Angel

Dalian said:
			
		

> but sometimes if we come across something hard to read or understand, we call it "tian shu" (heavenly script). we don't refer to any real language in the world, generally.


 
Then the hardest language on earth is Chinesse, after it just God is the hardest one ... intresting, I like that "tian shu"


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## Outsider

In Portuguese, we can say "Greek" or "Chinese":

_É grego para mim. / É chinês para mim._


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## drei_lengua

Hello everyone,

Whenever we don't understand something in the U.S. we say "It's all Greek to me".  For this thread please provide the following:

1.  *The name of your country.*
2.  *The equivalent nationality used along with the phrase in your language.*  I know in Germany and in other countries that they use a different nationality other than Greek but I cannot remember what it is.  I believe the Germans say "It's all English to me." and the Spaniards say "It's all French to me." or some equivalent.  However, I could be mistaken.  I have always found these to be interesting.
3.  *Why you think that nationality was chosen by your country.*

I look forward to your replies.

drei


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## cameo

1. As you can see I'm from Taiwan.
2. We say "It's all Spanish to me." 
3. I don't know why. Maybe my fellow Taiwanese can give us a reason.


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## Shu_Fen

Czech: To je pro mě španělská vesnice ("It's a Spanish village to me")

French: c'est de l'hébreu pour moi ("It's Hebrew to me")/c'est du chinois pour moi ("It's Chinese to me")

German: Das kommt mir spanisch vor ("It seems Spanish to me")

Greek: Είναι κινέζικα για μένα (Eínai kínezika jia ména; "It's Chinese to me")

Hungarian: Ez nekem kínai (This is Chinese to me.)

Japanese: ちんぷんかんぷんだ (It's double Dutch to me)

Russian: китайская грамота (It's Chinese writing!)

Serbian: Cyrillic: шпанска села -- Latin: španska sela (Spanish villages)

Spanish: Eso es griego para mí (It's Greek to me.)

Swedish: Det är rena grekiskan ("It is pure Greek")


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## diegodbs

In Spain:
esto es/parece chino = this is Chinese to me.

Perhaps because Chinese is considered a very difficult language.


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## Honour

in turkish, even it doesn't mean the same thing, if someone misses the context of a conversation or chat s/he says: "olaya fransız kaldım" which means "i am french to the conversation/chat" . I know that is quite opposite of other languages  .


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## ronanpoirier

In portuguese we say "*estar falando grego*" of course we'll inflect the verb "estar" according to whom is talking.


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## Juri

IT. When I didn't obey at once, my mother ever said:"Parlo turco?"
We say also "Come un turco alla predica"(as a Turk during the sermon)


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## LaSmarjeZ

In Italy you can hear Turkish, Arabic, Greek and rarely also aramaic


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## ALOV

In Dutch we also say:
"Dat is Chinees voor mij!" (that's chinese for me)

OR sometimes:
"Dat is Latijn voor mij'" (that's latin for me)


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## janecito

Jana337 said:
			
		

> We Czechs (as well as the Slovaks to my knowledge), in turn, associate the absolute lack of comprehensibility with Spanish villages but don’t ask me why!
> 
> To je pro mne španělská vesnice. This is a Spanish village to me.


Looks like we've got a Czech-(Slovak-)Slovenian pact going here. 

*To mi je španska vas.* This is a Spanish village to me.

 No idea where this village comes from though...

 Isn't there also a Spanish expression "*No entiendo ni jota.*" meaning (approximately) the same. To shift from nationalities to alphabet.


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## Juri

The same in italian:"Non capisco un'acca"."Non me ne importa un'acca"
(I don't care a straw) 
The letter aich in It. is not important. She is only used for the sounds chi,che,ghi ghe and the verb avere. In the dictionary the  "h" occupies only a half page with majority of foreign words.


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## Kevman

My first post here is going to be kind of a nerdy one, but I find this discussion very interesting! As far as I know the phrase originated in English from the quill of William Shakespeare in _Julius Caesar_. The earliest instance I know of which survives in print is the First Folio of 1623, but the play was of course written several years earlier (you know, during Shakespeare's lifetime!).

Near the end of Act I, scene ii Casca is describing to Brutus and Cassius the festivities surrounding Caesar's being made emperor:

_Cassi._ Did _Cicero_ say any thing?
_Cask._ I, he spoke Greeke.
_Cassi._ To what effect?
_Cask._ Nay, and I tell you that, Ile ne're looke you i' th' face againe. But those that understood him, smil'd at one another, and shooke their heads: but for mine owne part, it was Greeke to me.

I never realized the old chap was so influential that such a phrase of his could become so popular worldwide with regional variations like that, but I suppose the concept is universal and was just begging for an adage.


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## skatoulitsa

I'm not sure if the choice depends on geography or the language. For example US, England and Australia. All very far from each other, but they all speak english and I'm pretty sure they use "it's all greek to me", no?
But then apparently from what i read from the responses, spanish has griego o chino depending on geography...


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## The Extraordinary

yeah, we say in Greece "it's all Chinese to me", since Chinese is the most difficult language in the world and Greek the second most difficult!


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## Bienvenidos

It's an odd phrase to translate, but:

Persian (Farsi):

*Urchíz burím Greek us. 
(Everything's Greek to me)

Urchíz buruh muh Greek us.
(Alternative Sentence)
Bien*


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## larosa

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Jana, we also say "Das ist Chinesisch für mich - That's all Chinese to me"


 
In Hungarian we say: _Ez nekem kínai._ It means 'That sounds Chinese to me'


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## Becker

In Sinhalese it's

meka mata andara demala (this is Andhra Tamil (ie Telugu) to me)


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## HUMBERT0

janecito said:
			
		

> Looks like we've got a Czech-(Slovak-)Slovenian pact going here. Isn't there also a Spanish expression "*No entiendo ni jota.*" meaning (approximately) the same. To shift from nationalities to alphabet.


Es cierto también decimos "*No entiendo ni jota*", "*Por que no me hablas en Cristiano*"


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## leesboek

1. Name of country: The Netherlands

2. Dat is Chinees voor mij: That is Chinese to me

3. I think "Chinese" is chosen because we don't understand the language at all, we don't recognise any words, so it seems very difficult to us.


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## Qcumber

The French used to say: _Pour moi, c'est de l'hébreu._ "For me, it's Hebrew."
_Pour moi, c'est du chinois._ "For me, it's Chinese." seems to have replaced it.
I also heard once: _Pour moi, c'est du javanais._ "For me, it's Javanese."


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## PuffyEagle33

hihi! i'm new here. I found this site while searching for the Chinese translation of "It's Greek to me" for my spanish class! haha! it's so funny that so many other languages use Chinese when they don't understand something! xD 

*cameo*~ is the phrase "it's spanish to me" is realli used in taiwan? lol. so it would be 跟西班牙語一樣? andd, is the phrase 跟天書一樣 (like a heavenly script/book) used a lot?

thanks!


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## Chazzwozzer

I still don't get why we sometimes find things *French *to us in Turkish. We've been always influneced by French culture and the language, so why French? I mean, why not a language and culture we're not very familiar with, like Japanese?


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## ameana7

^We also say " If I understand, I become Arab" when we cannot understand the subject. It is strange because we'd been influenced by them too especially in old times.


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## Chazzwozzer

^Hmmm...

I've just checked TDK's dictionary and:
Fransız kalmak
Arap olayım

It's weird that TDK only accepts "Arap olayım" usage as, in humorus way, to make believe somebody, like a swear to show how serious he is. Example: "If I'm lying, let me turn into an Arab!" Of course, it's not a very good idiom, rather an insulting.

However, Fransız kalmak is used as in: It's all Greek to me.

Need to search more on this.


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## al-sirbi

Serbian
*шпанска села* (shpanska sela) - *spanish villages*
don't know why


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## Ilmo

_It is Greek to me_ means that the person speaking does not understand a bit of what he/she hears or reads.
*Do you use the corresponding saying in you mother tongue?*

In *Finnish* we say: _Se on minulle hepreaa_,* It is Hebrew to me*


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## DrLindenbrock

Hi!  
In *Italian* we say: _Per me è arabo_ (It is Arabic to me)


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## geve

In French: _*C'est du chinois*_ (it's Chinese) or *C'est du charabia*.

- and I've just discovered in the dictionary that "charabia" was the name of a local dialect in Auvergne (a region of France), and was then used pejoratively to mean an incomprehensible language. I'm only aware of the latter meaning now - without it raising any pejorative connotation.


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## Touse

In Dutch we tend to say: "*Het is Chinees voor mij*." - transl: "_It's Chinese to me."_


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## Stefan Ivanovich

geve said:


> In French: _*C'est du chinois*_ (it's Chinese) or *C'est du charabia*.


Also in French _*Pour moi, c'est de l'hébreu*_ (it's Hebrew to me), which admittedly is less frequently used.


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## Lemminkäinen

In Norwegian: *Det er gresk for meg*, which means the same as the English expression.


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## Flaminius

*Japanese:*
唐人の寝言
tōjin-no negoto
A Westerner talking in his sleep


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## Marga H

In Polish we say: Być na tureckim kazaniu = * to be at* a* turkish sermon *( means do not understand anything )
but also there is the expresion : Nie udawaj Greka! =  *Don't play the Greek!* ( means "don't pretend that you don't understand me! 
So Turkish and Greek seem to be the most difficult languages for Polish people   .


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## gigi1

^Maybe because when it is not convenient for us (and we do know the language) ,we make foreigners  believe we don't understand what they are saying????


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## Qcumber

C'est de l'hébreu. = It's Hebrew.
was also used in French.


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## samanthalee

The Extraordinary said:


> yeah, we say in Greece "it's all Chinese to me", since Chinese is the most difficult language in the world and Greek the second most difficult!


 
I had always wondered what's the Greek equivalence of "It's all Greek to me"... To think it is Chinese.... 

In Mandarin, when someone says something alien, the following exchange may occur.
"Excuse me, please speak Chinese." [请讲中文。]
"I am speaking Chinese." [我在说中文啊。]
"Really? It sounds foreign to me." [是吗?听起来怎么像外国话？]


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## SwissPete

What is *It's Greek to me* in other languages? I am especially interested in what the Greeks say!..


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## vachecow

This isn't exactly what you wanted, but it should help.
http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/incomprehensible.htm


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## Vagabond

SwissPete said:


> What is *It's Greek to me* in other languages? I am especially interested in what the Greeks say!..


Haha. Yeah, it is too bad we can't use that line, as something "Greek to me" would be something I could understand perfectly well. 

We say "It's Chinese to me", roughly, many ways to say it:
Αυτά είναι κινέζικα (aft*a* *i*ne kin*e*zika) = that's Chinese
Κινέζικα μου ακούγονται (kin*e*zika mou ak*ou*gontai) = sounds Chinese to me
etc. 

Basically the whole concept is that something you don't understand sounds Chinese to you, rephrased in many ways, and the choice of the language is of course due to the fact that Chinese is nothing like Greek and (just like Greek) looks and sounds strange to anyone who doesn't speak it.


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## SwissPete

vachecow said:


> This isn't exactly what you wanted, but it should help.
> http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/incomprehensible.htm


 
Thanks, vachecow. Yes, it's pretty much what I was looking for.


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## Stephanus

Until eighty or so years ago Greek was included in a traditional (mainly male!) upper-class British education, so it's rather surprising that we have that expression in English. I imagine it has some connection with the pre-Renaissance attitude to Greek. Mediaeval monks sometimes had to copy odd Greek words and expressions in the middle of a Latin text, but if they did they could add in the margin "Graeca sunt, non leguntur" - "it's Greek, it doesn't get read".


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## jonquiliser

janecito said:


> Isn't there also a Spanish expression "*No entiendo ni jota.*" meaning (approximately) the same. To shift from nationalities to alphabet.



You can say that in Swedish as well; "jag begriper inte ett jota!" And in addition to "rena grekiskan" that someone already mentioned, you could say "rotvälskan", "rena rotvälskan" or, with more emphasis, "rena rama rotvälskan!" Rotvälska is sort of "gibberish"; unintelligible, often because it is such a messy mixture of languages or has such poor grammar etc.


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## doman

When somebody talked a wierd thing, you can say it in Vietnamese:

*"Tôi nghe như vịt nghe sấm ấy!",*
meaning you understood nothing, like a duck listens the Thunder.
or *"Nghe như chuyện trên sao Hỏa !",*
means "It sounds as in the Mars to me".


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## ezi

In Czech we also say
Nerozumim ani 'ň' 
which is pronounced like 'ny' 
and it means 'I don´t understand anything, not even one letter'.


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## deine

I can't think of any equivalent of "it's all Greek to me." in Lithuanian. 

We don't refer to any language (or maybe it could be Arabic)

If we don't understand we say- Kalba paukščių kalba, that means -Talking like a bird. 
I cannot think something also, just this.


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## BlueWolf

In Italian we don't use just Arabic, but Ostrogoth too. 

Non mi sembra di parlare ostrogoto... (typical sentence from an irritated teacher )

And with letters, we say "non capirci un'acca di qualcosa", literaly "not to understand a _h_ about something", since _h_ is the only silent letter in Italian.


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## Krümelmonster

gaer said:


> German:
> 
> Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof. = It's [all] Greek to me.
> 
> Literally: "I understand only 'train-staion' "
> 
> NO idea where that came from, but I've seen it and heard it.


I know this post is rather old but I didn't find anyone answering it before, so I hope this is no double post:

The expression about the train-station originates in the WWII... when the war was almost lost, the soldiers didn't listen any more to their leaders who wanted to encourage them to go on fighting. They "only understood train-station" because this was a symbol for them of getting home, so they just understood "go home"...


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## Phillr

In Sweden we have the expression:

_Det är rena grekiskan för mig.

_Word-for-word it translates to something like:

*It's pure Greek to me.*


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## Lillita

larosa said:


> In Hungarian we say: _Ez nekem kínai._ It means 'That sounds Chinese to me'


 
*In Hungarian* we also say:
_Ez nekem magas_ ~ This is high to me.

But yes, we usually refer to the Chinese when we don't understand something...


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## mcibor

Marga H said:


> In Polish we say: Być na tureckim kazaniu = * to be at* a* turkish sermon *( means do not understand anything )
> but also there is the expresion : Nie udawaj Greka! =  *Don't play the Greek!* ( means "don't pretend that you don't understand me!
> So Turkish and Greek seem to be the most difficult languages for Polish people   .



Polish:
There is also:
To dla mnie chińszczyzna = *It's Chinese to me*, but it's refered to sth difficult while learning, not to the understanding.
When you want to say, that you don't understand, and again the context is narrowed to plot / situation you could say
To jest czeski film = *It's a Czech film*.

I thought there was some more relation to Greek through letter jota, but
ni joty means nothing at all, so you could say:
Nie rozumiem ni joty = I don't understand at all, but you can use that phrase to beer as well:
W lodówce nie ma ni joty piwa - there is no beer (at all) in the fridge
So it's all based on context 

Why? do you ask:
Chinese, because it seems very difficult to learn
Czech film has an exact meaning: nobody knows anything.
From my memory I can say, this saying appeared in Poland around 70s due to the Czech productions. I don't know exactly which film was most influencial, but it came into live speach, and survived to modern times.

Regards
Michał


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## Metabolix

In Finnish, "se on täyttä hepreaa." This translates quite well as "It's all Hebrew." The word Hebrew can also be used itself, it's not tied to the 'complete' idiom. I might even say that it's the only word that really matters.


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## Lingvisten

1. I'm from Denmark
2. we don't have any standar frase for that, but one could might say: "det er det rene kaudervælsk" (it's all kaudervælsk), kaudervælsk is a language, that comes from a part of Switzerland, and is taken from German "Kauderwelsch". One could also say: "det er det rene volapyk" (it's all volapük). If you don't know anything about a subject you could say: "det er en by i Rusland" (its a city in Russia).


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## Mahaodeh

In Arabic we say يتكلم الهندية "he is speaking Hindi" to refer to someone that is saying something you do not understand at all. However, if you understand the words but what the person is saying is illogical or not understandable, one would say that هذه سفسطائية "this is Sophism", refering to the ancient greek philosophy.

If everybody knows what a person is saying except you, you would be مثل الأطرش بالزفة "like a deaf person in a zaffa" zaffa = part of the wedding celebration where everyone sings very loudly and there is a lot of music, a deaf person would see everyone shouting and jumping but he can't hear a word so he doesn't know what's going on.



> When you want to say, that you don't understand, and again the context is narrowed to plot / situation you could say
> To jest czeski film = *It's a Czech film*.


 
Interestingly, in Arabic we have the expression فلم هندي "it's a Hindi film", but it does not mean that you don't know what's going on; it means that what is happening is unbelievable, long and/or with a lot of unlikely incidents. We also have the expression فلم امريكي "American film" to refer to a close-miss that got your heart pumping like a drum and 'almost' caused a tragedy.


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## jana.bo99

Croatian: To je za me Špansko selo! (if we don't know, what is going about, we say so).

German:  Spanische Doerfer! (when I was in Germany, we used to say so)
             Das sind Spanische Doerfer fuer mich!


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## kusurija

Czech: we sometimes say:
To je nějaká zulukafrenština;
or with misspelling  To je nějaká zkufularenština!
which refers to Zulu French! I'm curious about that, if many Czech at all had heard that language...
Meanig: This is/must be somewhat in Zulu French!
Used if someone not clearly explains his intentions or You don't understand his intentions at all.
Why used? I have no idea why...

In Lithuania there is also sometimes reffered "Czech film" as mentioned mcibor ,
but I thing that it came from Poland...


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## Oluc (Yvon)

We also use the term "chinoiserie" in French.
Does any other language use "chinese" in its substantive form to refer to something very complicated that one cannot comprehend?


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## Flaminius

Jana337 said:


> what’s the equivalent and the English translation of “it’s all Greek to me” in your mother tongue? This could evolve into a nice exercise in geography.


Hello Jana,

I take you are looking for idioms that means something incomprehensible with a foreign language metaphor.  Here is the Japanese one;
唐人の寝言
tōjin-no negoto
where _tōjin_ is an archaism for "Westerners" (the expression itself is somewhat dated) and _negoto_ is sleep-talk (sleep-talk of a foreigner).

The idea is that the languages of Westerners are incomprehensible already and what they speak while asleep is all the more so.    The expression was invented in Nagasaki, which was virtually the only port which was open to the Westerners until the late 19th century.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Oluc (Yvon) said:


> We also use the term "chinoiserie" in French.
> Does any other language use "chinese" in its substantive form to refer to something very complicated that one cannot comprehend?


In France we don't say « chinoiserie » (which has another pejorative meaning, in its plural form) but « c'est du chinois » (it's chinese to me), as already said by Gève here. In this thread, I remember it's also used in Dutch, you can use the « search this thread » function to find it.


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## Outsider

In Portuguese there is the word *chinesice*, but it's used for complicated habits or capricious rules.


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## echo chamber

In Macedonian:
шпанско село (shpansko selo) - spanish village 

Sorry spanish friends, I don`t have a clue where does this come from!


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## Outsider

Flaminius said:


> Here is the Japanese one;
> [...]
> t?jin-no negoto
> where _t?jin_ is an archaism for "Westerners" (the expression itself is somewhat dated) and _negoto_ is sleep-talk (sleep-talk of a foreigner).
> 
> The idea is that the languages of Westerners are incomprehensible already and what they speak while asleep is all the more so.


What a lovely image!


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## chriskardos

well Hungarians say both :
it's Greek to me - ez görög nekem
it's totally Chinese to me - ez nekem teljesen kínai,
etc.


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## chriskardos

ok i was actually wrong i think.
it's more likely that Hungarians only say it's all Chinese to me.


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## 2xMcK

Nice thread, this is funny. 

The most common phrase to show that feeling in Spain is "Don't speak chinese", as previously said. I think it is also common to use russian language in the same manner, but we don't use greek here.


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## franz rod

> My first post here is going to be kind of a nerdy one, but I find this discussion very interesting! As far as I know the phrase originated in English from the quill of William Shakespeare in _Julius Caesar_. The earliest instance I know of which survives in print is the First Folio of 1623, but the play was of course written several years earlier (you know, during Shakespeare's lifetime!)



No.
It came from the impossibility for the medieval copyist to understand text in Greek



> yeah, we say in Greece "it's all Chinese to me", since Chinese is the most difficult language in the world and Greek the second most difficult!



The difficoult in Chinese is not the language (the grammar is simple) but the scripture which didn't develop in more "available" one.   Greek isn't very dificoult.


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## Aoyama

That's a long (and enduring) thread, that goes back more than 3 years ...
Let me put my grain of salt in it (though I confess I did not read ALL the posts ... I may repeat what has been already said ...).
Invoking a language that appears unintelligible to express something difficult to understand is common in most languages.
For Europeans, Chinese, Hebrew, Greek and Arabic represent the epitome of what cannot be understood (or deciphered).
French will then say : C'est du chinois/de l'hébreu/du grec/de l'arabe pour moi, as an Englishman will equally say : it's all Chinese/Hebrew/Greek/Arabic to me.
The choice of languages might vary, though these are quite representative of "difficult" languages.
But then, it's all quite subjective. Hindi, Russian, Aztec, Mongolian, Korean, Basque, Welsh, Finnish and countless other idioms may present some equally unsurmountable difficulties to justify being used as a criterion for "mystery".


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## Akritas

In English if a foreign language or phrase sounds incomprehensible, there is the expression 'This is Greek to me'.
In Greek we say 'This is Chinese to me'.
What do people say in other languages?


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## b4nny

In Spanish they also say that "it's Chinese to me"


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## origumi

fetchezlavache said:


> crikey. i thought we said 'c'est de l'hébreu pour moi'...


But then... that would be no problem 

In Hebrew we say "this is Chinese to me".


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## Agró

b4nny said:


> In Spanish they also say that "it's Chinese to me"


Rather *It sounds like Chinese to me* (Me suena a chino).


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## Selyd

In ukrainian:
Це китайська грамота  - /Tse kytays'ka hramota/ (It is the Chinese letter)


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## Orlin

^We Bulgarians use Chinese too: _Това е като (на) китайски._ = This is like (in) Chinese. or _Това е като китайско писмо._ = This is like Chinese writing.
As far as I know, Chinese is (one of) the most difficult language(s) in the world and it's still rarely known outside China, and that's why such expressions hav been created.


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## Aoyama

French has also the expression, a bit outdated but used in the 1850-1950ies : "c'est de l'algèbre pour moi" (it's algebra to me).


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## Geo.

In English *'It's all Greek to me'* — or some such variation — is so common, to my way of thinking, that looking at some alternate turns of phrase — for instance _'It's Double-Dutch'_ — seem unusual.  

When speaking in German with my mother's family, I am often at a loss to understand someone who speaks in a dialect or with an accent, with which I am unaccustomed.  (I'm limited to Southern German at best; though some would argue that anyone with _„Schwyzerdütsch“ shouldn't cast stones_ ... but I digress).  As such — perhaps because of it — I've often made use of the same phrase as several other German speakers have mentioned, viz: *„Das kommt mir spanisch vor“* ... quite literally: _ 'Seems like Spanish (to me)'._


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## infinite sadness

In Italia si dice: "questo per me è arabo".


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## olaszinho

German isn't much easier. I'm surprised, no one posted such a saying with German. 

German isn't much easier than Chinese?! The grammar is probably more difficult but this is true for all the Indo-European languages. As for syntax, vocabulary, pronunciation and especially ideograms, Chinese is by far more difficult than German for a European speaker.


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## Geo.

olaszinho said:


> German isn't much easier. I'm surprised, no one posted such a saying with German.


 
With regard to _'Double Dutch'_, as I mentioned above, perhaps I spoke too soon. 

Traces of the word _*'Dutch'* being used to mean *'German'* & 'German-speaking peoples' _are found in English to the present-day, in terms like _'Pennsylvania Dutch'_; a people descended from dispossessed Germans, (because of religious beliefs). 

As late as the early English colonial period, the terms _*'Low Dutch' *and* 'High Dutch'*_ were used to mean _*'Low German'*, (i.e. languages inclusive of those of the Benelux countries, as well as the indigenous Low German as once spoken 'north of the Benrath (line)'; _and *'High Dutch' *to mean what is to-day called _*'High German'*, inclusive of the opposite extreme of Low German, viz „Oberdeutsch“._ 

(Just as the German word for _'Dutch' _is „niederländisch“ i.e. _'of the Low Lands'_, where the German word for _'German'_ is „deutsch“; in a similar way, I believe the Dutch word for _'Dutch'_ is _«Nederlands»_ _— i.e. of the 'Low Countries' — _where the Dutch word for _'German'_ is _«Duits»__). _

Thus, the term _*'Double Dutch'*_ _— inclusive of the language-game of the same name _— _might _have been a reference to _the difficulty of an English-speaker to understand 'Dutch' in its erstwhile historic use, i.e. *German*. _


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## Aoyama

In addition to what has been said in # 91, Japanese has also the expression ”ちんぷんかんぷん”(chinpun kanpun) also written : 珍紛/糞漢紛/糞 (other variants) meaning "unintelligible talk", gibberish, double Dutch.  It bears the character 漢 kan/han meaning Chinese. Originally probably from Nagasaki, at the extreme south of "mainland Japan" (if you exclude Okinawa and the multiple small islands), point of contact between Japan and foreigners (Chinese included).


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## Stbn_fcr

Here you have related expressions in Spanish. Although, I know they have not strictly the same meaning of "it's all Greek to me":

In Madrid, they say "No me hables en polaco" -> "Don't speak to me Polish" to address rudely a Catalan speaker visitor specially from Catalonia. 

"Háblame en cristiano" -> "Speak to me Christian" meaning "speak to me properly so that I can understand you".


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## Nizo

Lingvisten said:


> ...One could also say: "det er det rene volapyk" (it's all volapük)...



Likewise, in *Esperanto* we say _Ĝi estas por mi Volapukaĵo_.  I guess early Esperantists (wisely) thought it better to pick on another planned language than a traditional language.


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## solysombra

(Escribo en español, y aunque lo entiendo perfectamente, no me atrevo a escribir ni una palabra en inglés...
Si alguien quisiera traducir sucintamente mi pregunta al inglés, se lo agradecería ya que me gustaría que ésta fuera leída por la mayor cantidad de foreros posible). 

Recuerdo que hace mucho leí no sé dónde que no en todos los países el chino es sinónimo de idioma incomprensible (Casi aseguraría que en la China no lo es...)

Encontré estas definiciones en el Diccionario de la Academia :

Chino:
*5. *m. coloq. Lenguaje incomprensible. _No sé a qué te refieres, porque me estás hablando en chino_


*Chino básico:*
*1. *loc. verb. coloq._ Arg._ Resultar incomprensible o difícil de desentrañar. _La electrónica es chino básico para él_

Si alguien conoce una lista de países/idiomas que contemple este asunto, y/o quiere contarnos qué lengua se usa en su país, o en su idioma, para aludir a un lenguaje incomprensible, se lo agradezco desde ya. Especialmente a los chinos...


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## nand-o

Te parecerá curioso pero ese "it's all greek to me" es originario de España, hacia principios de 1500 se produjo una llegada masiva de artistas y sirvientes a la corte. 
Y el griego pasó a ser sinónimo de lengua extranjera e incomprensible.

No tardó mucho en llegar y asentarse en las Américas, donde por un lado y con el tiempo lo tomaron los holandeses rubicundos que eran como "el queso de Juan" (Jankee) y por el otro cambió la forma para designar a los hablantes de otra lengua incomprensible, "grigos" primero y gringos después.


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## Gernot Back

En alemán decimos:_Das kommt mir Spanisch vor. _
(_Esto me suena muy raro.
Aquí hay gato encerrado. _
literalmente: _Esto me parece ser español_)​


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## eli.vb.92

This is true in France say a thing not understood "that Hebrew for me"


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## rubidou

Yes, you're right. They say '_c'est de l'hébreu (pour moi)_' if something is incomprehensible, complicated, סָתוּם.

See also: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=628839


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## tapuz

In Finnish, we similarly say 'täyttä hepreaa' when something is incomprehensible. In English it would translate to "utter/pure/absolute Hebrew".

E.g.:
"Ohjeet olivat täyttä hepreaa" - "The instructions were utter Hebrew"

Wonder how many other languages have the same metaphor?


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## Egmont

tapuz said:


> ...Wonder how many other languages have the same metaphor?


According to this page over 30, with some of them using multiple metaphors.


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## rubidou

Thanks for posting the link, Egmont - very interesting! 
As I was browing through several Wikipedia pages, I also stumbled across the English: "It's (all) Hebrew to me". Is that expression commonly used?


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## Egmont

rubidou said:


> ... As I was browing through several Wikipedia pages, I also stumbled across the English: "It's (all) Hebrew to me". Is that expression commonly used?


Not in my experience. In English, I've only heard this expression used with Greek and Chinese.


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## djmc

In England there is the rather annoying habit that men who know not a word of French will say something like "He"s a fucking prick, pardon my French". Intending the last bit to me (a woman) implying that women being gently brought up will not know what he is talking about.


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## mataripis

it's all greek to me= pawang elinika ang lahat na ito sa akin.or  pawang Tagalog lahat sa akin ang mga ito!


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## Aoyama

I guess "it's all Hebrew to me" in English is a translation from the French (see above) : "c'est de l'hébreu pour moi". French refers to Arabic, Hebrew, Greek and Chinese as synonyms for things hard to understand.
As for "pardon my French", that relates to vulgarity, not difficulty. It is a kind of joke ...


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## DearPrudence

Wow, that is a long thread! 
Hopefully this diagram is accurate. In any case, I found it interesting


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## mundiya

The diagram is wrong for Hindi.  We use "Farsi" in our expression.


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## Messquito

PuffyEagle33 said:


> *cameo*~ is the phrase "it's spanish to me" is realli used in taiwan? lol. so it would be 跟西班牙語一樣? andd, is the phrase 跟天書一樣 (like a heavenly script/book) used a lot?
> thanks!





cameo said:


> 1. As you can see I'm from Taiwan.
> 2. We say "It's all Spanish to me."
> 3. I don't know why. Maybe my fellow Taiwanese can give us a reason.


I've personally never heard the "Spanish thing". Maybe that's just something between you and your friend; it's probably not a common phrase in Taiwan.
天書 is used, but I wouldn't say a lot. Another possible word for it is 鬼畫符(runes written by ghosts), which sounds a little negative. They are definitely not used as much as "It's Greek to me":
跟天書一樣！
根本鬼畫符！

We usually just say "我完全看不懂 I don't understand at all." Straightforward, nothing metaphoric.


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## SuperXW

天书 (a heavenly script/book) and 鬼画符 (runes written by ghosts) are also common sayings in Mainland China.

A heavenly script/book: often refers to verbal languages or terminologies.
Runes written by ghosts: refers to written languages or signs.

Sometimes, when two Chinese are talking, A was using all the hard terminologies that B could not understand, B may say: "please speak Chinese".
This is like saying "please speak English" among English speakers.


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## Encolpius

chriskardos said:


> well Hungarians say both :
> it's Greek to me - ez görög nekem



I have not ever heard it. I am afraid it is from English. Something modern.


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## Olaszinhok

In Italy, we generally say: _it sounds Arabic to me. _We could never say like in German_:  it sounds Spanish to me... _


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## Perseas

Encolpius said:


> I have not ever heard it. I am afraid it is from English. Something modern.


He revised:


chriskardos said:


> ok i was actually wrong i think.
> it's more likely that Hungarians only say it's all Chinese to me.


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## Włoskipolak 72

mcibor said:


> Polish:
> There is also:
> To dla mnie chińszczyzna = *It's Chinese to me*, but it's refered to sth difficult while learning, not to the understanding.
> When you want to say, that you don't understand, and again the context is narrowed to plot / situation you could say
> To jest czeski film = *It's a Czech film*.
> 
> I thought there was some more relation to Greek through letter jota, but
> ni joty means nothing at all, so you could say:
> Nie rozumiem ni joty = I don't understand at all, but you can use that phrase to beer as well:
> W lodówce nie ma ni joty piwa - there is no beer (at all) in the fridge
> So it's all based on context
> 
> Why? do you ask:
> Chinese, because it seems very difficult to learn
> Czech film has an exact meaning: nobody knows anything.
> From my memory I can say, this saying appeared in Poland around 70s due to the Czech productions. I don't know exactly which film was most influencial, but it came into live speach, and survived to modern times.
> 
> Regards
> Michał



I think the expression :  *to jest czeski film *( It'a Czech film ) it's quite popular in Poland ! 
It is in another context , but in relation to Greek ,  in polish language we use the expression : nie udawaj Greka  ,  *udawać Greka  */uˈdavaʥ̑ ˈɡrɛka/ : ( play possum , play dumb) udawać, że nie ma się pojęcia, wiedzy na jakiś temat; zachowywać się jak ktoś niezorientowany, nierozumiejący określonej kwestii, mimo że w rzeczywistości jest inaczej . ( pretend that you have no idea or knowledge about something; behave like someone who is confused and does not understand a certain issue, although in reality it is not ..)


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## marco_2

mcibor said:


> Polish:
> When you want to say, that you don't understand, and again the context is narrowed to plot / situation:
> To jest czeski film = *It's a Czech film*.
> 
> 
> Czech film has an exact meaning: nobody knows anything.
> From my memory I can say, this saying appeared in Poland around 70s due to the Czech productions. I don't know exactly which film was most influencial, but it came into live speach, and survived to modern times.
> 
> Regards
> Michał



By the way, this expression _(to jest czeski film: nikt nic nie wie) _is much older than 1970s: in 1947 the Poles could see a Czech detective comedy directed by Josef Mach "Nikdo nic neví " (in Polish version "Nikt nic nie wie" - Nobody knows anything) with a very complicated plot and then this saying was coined.


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