# Toccare a qualcuno



## dnote

Cosa vuoldire la frase "Se tocca a qualcuno"? If it happens to someone? Il traduzione letterale è "touch", ma in questa cosa non ne va. Fors'è una buon'idea di aggiungere la frase nel dizionario?

Ciao, Dave


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## Idioteque

dnote said:
			
		

> Cosa vuol dire la frase "Se tocca a qualcuno"? If it happens to someone? La traduzione letterale è "touch", ma in questo caso non va (senza "ne"). Forse è una buona idea aggiungere (senza "di") la frase nel dizionario?
> 
> Ciao, Dave



Ciao, Dave!
Scusa, ma questa frase è troppo breve! Un po' di contesto sarebbe utile! 
Ciao, Laura


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## dnote

Posso fare!

Nessuno ha capito la mia tragedia. Volevo vedere se toccava a loro, una cosa simile!


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## Idioteque

dnote said:
			
		

> Posso farlo!
> 
> Nessuno ha capito la mia tragedia. Volevo vedere se toccava a loro, una cosa simile!



It's not correct Italian, though it's quite common in colloquial speech. it should be:
"Nessuno ha capito la mia tragedia. Avrei voluto vedere se fosse toccata a loro, una cosa simile!"

my attempt:

"Nobody understood my tragedy. I would have loved to see if such a thing would have happened to them!"

Hope it helps! 

Ciao, Laura


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## dnote

Grazie per le tue risposte. La mia supposizione era proprio giusta questa volta


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## Idioteque

dnote said:
			
		

> Grazie per le tue risposte. La mia supposizione era proprio giusta questa volta



Figurati! Sì, in questo caso era giusta... ma questa espressione non ha sempre questo significato! 
Per esempio:
"Sbrigati! Tocca a te adesso" = "Hurry up! It's your turn, now!"

Ciao, Laura


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## dnote

Esatto, sono multo felice che ho imparato tutto di tutti delle parole "toccare" e "tocca"  Ancora grazie per insegnarlo.


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## Idioteque

dnote said:
			
		

> Esatto, sono molto felice di aver imparato tutto (senza "di tutti") delle parole "toccare" e "tocca"  Ancora grazie per avermelo insegnato.



Figurati, è stato un piacere! 

Ciao, Laura


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## alsace1961

Ciao a tutti,

Mi allaccio ad un vecchio post per sviscerare un altro significato di *toccare a*, e precisamente come un qualcosa che viene* assegnato dalla sorte* dove a parer mio non vanno bene come traduzione nè *happen to someone* nè *being someone's turn.* 
Stiamo parlando di una gara di cucina e l'assegnazione dei piatti da cucinare è casuale. *A Debra toccò il maialino arrosto. *Quindi le capitò, ma non nel senso di succedere, nè di essere il suo turno.
*Debra lighted on the roast piglet* potrebbe essere una traduzione valida??? O qualcosa con *turn up*?  Voi di madrelingua inglese, come direste?


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## Blackman

It's an interesting issue. The Italian utterance should actually go this way: _a Debra *toccò in sorte* il maialino arrosto_.

Natives, what about *the roast piglet fell to Debra*?

By the way, I suggest to open a new thread or wait for moderators to split this up.



alsace1961 said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> 
> Mi allaccio ad un vecchio post per sviscerare un altro significato di *toccare a*, e precisamente come un qualcosa che viene* assegnato dalla sorte* dove a parer mio non vanno bene come traduzione nè *happen to someone* nè *being someone's turn.*
> Stiamo parlando di una gara di cucina e l'assegnazione dei piatti da cucinare è casuale. *A Debra toccò il maialino arrosto. *Quindi le capitò, ma non nel senso di succedere, nè di essere il suo turno.
> *Debra lighted on the roast piglet* potrebbe essere una traduzione valida??? O qualcosa con *turn up*?  Voi di madrelingua inglese, come direste?


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## johngiovanni

"Light on" has the sense of "suddenly notice".  "He lighted on a clue."   The roast piglet caught her eye.  Does this help?


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## sound shift

Blackman said:


> It's an interesting issue. The Italian utterance should actually go this way: _a Debra *toccò in sorte* il maialino arrosto_.
> 
> Natives, what about _the roast piglet fall to Debra?
> _


We wouldn't say that. We could say, "It fell to Debra to roast the suckling pig", "Debra was put in charge of the suckling pig" or "Debra was given the job of roasting the suckling pig".


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## johngiovanni

I agree with all of sound shift's suggestions, with a preference for the first one because of the "in sorte".


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## Blackman

Indeed, but she's not roasting it. When courses to eat were distributed, the piglet fell to Debra, while, let's say, the pasta fell to her sister sitting beside her. Hard to believe you'd say _it fell to Debra to eat the roast piglet_. Would you say that?

Edit: I failed to say I am pursuing a more wider use of this _toccare_ than one asked by alsace1961, whose question you already brilliantly answered.



sound shift said:


> We wouldn't say that. We could say, "It fell to Debra to roast the pork", "Debra was put in charge of roasting the pork" or "Debra was given the job of roasting the pork".


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## johngiovanni

Oh, I see!   I would probably say she "ended up getting the roast pork" or something like that which suggests it was her luck to have it.  I would use "fell to" in the sense of "it fell to him/ her to do X" - it was his/ her responsibility.


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## Blackman

Now I see you got the right gist for _toccare_ in this context. But I mislead you by saying _in sorte, _which was only meant to be of help in getting the right meaning. No luck involved here, it simply states the fact she got the pork.


johngiovanni said:


> Oh, I see!   I would probably say she "ended up getting the roast pork" or something like that which suggests it was her luck to have it.


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## sound shift

Yes, "She ended up getting the roast pork" sounds good to me.


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## joanvillafane

Blackman, why do you think it's not about her roasting it? In post #14 you refer to courses to eat being distributed, but the original sentence in post # 9 says "piatti da cucinare" in a cooking competition.  

She ended up getting the roast pork - definitely sounds as if she just has to eat it.  I'd suggest:

She ended up having to do/make/cook roast pork.


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## alsace1961

Grazie a tutti, ci stiamo avvicinando ma vi chiedo un altro piccolo sforzo. 
Di "Debra ended up getting the roast suckling pig" non mi piace il fatto che il soggetto del verbo è Debra. Questa costruzione sposta l'enfasi. Voglio una frase dove il soggetto sia il maialino. Se mai andrebbe bene una frase tipo "The roast suckling pig ended up to Debra". Avrebbe senso????  

Oppure, poiché il significato completo era "a Debra toccò in sorte di dovere cucinare il maialino arrosto", se l'espressione "It fell to Debra to roast the pork" non è corretta, potrebbe esserlo invece "It fell to Debra to cook the roast suckling pig"??

Joan, giustissimo, Debra non l'ha nemmeno mangiato, le è toccato cucinare il maialino per i commensali.
E John, non è stata una fortuna davvero, è arrivata ultima e quindi è stata eliminata!


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## sound shift

alsace1961 said:


> Se mai andrebbe bene una frase tipo "The roast suckling pig ended up to Debra". Avrebbe senso????


Unfortunately not. "Ended up *to*" doesn't work.


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## Blackman

Sorry Joan, my fault, I did not read correctly the whole post. I've even thrown a poor excuse in by editing my post #14...

However, as I said, it might be useful to start a new thread titled _toccare *qualcosa* a qualcuno._





joanvillafane said:


> Blackman, why do you think it's not about her roasting it? In post #14 you refer to courses to eat being distributed, but the original sentence in post # 9 says "piatti da cucinare" in a cooking competition.
> 
> She ended up getting the roast pork - definitely sounds as if she just has to eat it.  I'd suggest:
> 
> She ended up having to do/make/cook roast pork.


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## johngiovanni

If we are back to her having to cook the roast suckling pig, and you want to change the word order:  "The cooking of the roast suckling pig fell to Debra"  or "Roasting the suckling pig was the task she ended up with."
It is interesting that another way of expressing this in English in many contexts could be "X landed on her plate".  For example, "She smiled in spite of the challenge that had just landed on her plate."  I could not suggest it in this thread for obvious reasons.


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## alsace1961

Thank you John. I definitely like *The cooking of the roast suckling pig fell to Debra* !


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## johngiovanni

MR1492 said:


> John is absolutely right about the meaning but this sentence is quite awkward.  To me, it should be "_Roasting of the suckling pig fell to Debra_."  Personally, I think "The cooking of the roast..." is a bit redundant.
> 
> Phil


I agree. "Roasting of the suckling pig fell to Debra" is better.  You don't cook a roast suckling pig!


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## curiosone

Assuming the pig has already been cooked, eaten, and digested , I'm trying to translate another sentence using "toccare a," in yet a different sense.  

My sentence (in Italian) is "Mi tocca star bene, per gratitudine." 

Context: I wanted to attend a one-day course that required a bit of travel.  With my (small) car that meant 6 hours' driving (a/r) all on the same day.  But I wasn't sure I felt up to facing such a trip (non stavo molto bene), so I asked a friend (also going to the course) to give me a lift with his faster, more comfortable (larger) car), which made it a 4-hour (instead of 6-hr) drive.  Then two other friends (also looking for rides) asked me if I'd be willing to take my car, if they'd help me with the driving.  At first I agreed, then realized this was NOT a solution (for me), so asked the friend (with the bigger car) if he had room for all 3 of us.  Awaiting his reply, I realized that I'd have been perfectly happy to give my ride to one of my friends, and not go at all (if need be).  Then I received confirmation (from the friend with the more comfortable car), confirming he had room for all of us, and informing me he had refused a ride to two others (in order to help us).  
Quindi mi toccava veramente, andarci!

My attempts at translation:  
(1) "I have to be well, out of gratitude." (_which I don't like_)
(2) "It's up to me to be well, in gratitude." (_which also doesn't satisfy me_).
(3) "I'm so grateful I must feel better, now" or "I'm so grateful I have to feel well, now"(_better, but not quite the sam_e).
(4) "If only out of gratitude, it's up to me to feel well." (_too long_)

Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance (this is what happens, when I think in Italian...)


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## joanvillafane

Hi curiosone and hi john - 
This is what occurred to me - see how it sounds to you...

Now I just have to get better/feel better, just to thank you.
or maybe
Now I simply must get better, just to thank you.


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## curiosone

Thanks for your attempts to help (even tho' I can't see johngiovanni's).
What I like about the Italian version is that it can be said as a universal statement (I provided context only to explain the origin).  "Gratitude" doesn't necessarily refer to only one person.  It could also be gratitude to life.

So maybe:  "Now I simply must get better, out of gratitude."

...except even the concept of "getting better" implies a specific (rather than universal) moment.  And I think "stare bene" can refer to "being well" and "staying well" as well as "getting well."

How would "It's up to me to be/stay well, out of gratitude" work?  Or don't you like the use of "gratitude" here, Joan?   Could "thank you" also refer to a more general concept, of thanking God, or thanking the World or the Universe?  Would "It's up to me to be/stay well, out of thankfulness" be more universal?

Let's not forget this thought came to me on Easter, which is a celebration of Resurrection (or returning to life), Spring, renewal.


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## joanvillafane

Hmm, I understand now what you're trying to say, but it's not any easier.   
I do like "thankfulness" better than "gratitude" - can't say exactly why.

Maybe it's the "toccare a" that's giving me trouble, too.  I always find it difficult to translate.  Looking back at your four choices, I must say #3 sounds the best to me - the one that does NOT translate "toccare a." 

Can I ask if this sentence follows one in which you thank this person specifically for what he has done? In other words, you've done X, now it's up to me to do Y.  In that case, I'd say:
You've gone so much out of your way (or other similar statement), now my part is to simply be well, out of deep gratitude.
(disagreed with myself about "gratitude" - maybe it's too early in the morning!)


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## alicip

Io la vedo così: "As a way of thanking you, (I promise you) I'll get better." oppure "My way of thanking you is by getting better."


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## MR1492

alicip,

While the ultimate decision on what the right answer is probably belongs to curiosone (with an assist from joanvillafane), your suggestion sounds quite good.  It appears to get the idea across in a very well constructed manner.

Phil


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## Backstreets

Could it be "Now I'm forced to get better, just to show my gratitude" ? ("Mi tocca" inteso come "devo per forza".)


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## MR1492

Backstreets said:


> Could it be "Now I'm forced to get better, just to show my gratitude" ? ("Mi tocca" inteso come "devo per forza".)



Backstreets,

Your suggestion is good.  I didn't realize that "Mi tocca" was that strong.  As an option, you might soften it a bit by saying "Now I have to get better ..." but the suggestion is just a matter of style.  

Phil


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## curiosone

Thank you all.  Joanvillafane does seem to have a better sense of what I'm tryng to say. However this is isn't something I actually said to the person I was specifically grateful to, but rather (jokingly) to the other two people I had helped (to find a ride), and (in Italian) I liked the play on words, and the universality of what I had said. 

Backsktreets is right, that "mi tocca" can be very strong.  In fact, out of respect for the person who was helping me (even with just one space for me in his car), I felt bound either to go, or to put someone in my place.  In fact, if there had been only one space in his car, I might have given it to one of my other friends.  And if he had had only 2 places, I would have sent the other two, in my place (perhaps relieved to stay home, as I wasn't feeling 100%).  But when I realized he had saved 3 spaces for us, it became "mi tocca" (not just "I can", but "I must"), because he could have given rides to other people (besides us).  At that point I had "no excuse." 

But what I wanted to translate was the universal sense - not regarding the specific situation, but the value of being well, in the sense of being grateful for life (which isn't a given), and in the sense of "Life is too short to waste a moment being ill.  Therefore I must be well."

My difficulty is expressing this concept in English, so that it may both be a universal concept and relative to the specific event.

So maybe "It's up to me to be well, in thankfulness."


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