# Icelandic: Morphing Prepositions



## Alxmrphi

I know judging by my previous responses on this language nobody is extremely fluent, but it is a simple question and I'm hoping something similar happens in a related norse language that someone might be able to explain.

In the question "Where are you from?" (Hvarðan ertu?)
The second morph I know is "ert Þú -> ertu" (are you)

And I know the question word "Where" (Hvar) is in there, but the word that is missing is "frá" - somehow "Hvar frá" has become "Hvarðan".

I don't know why they have become one word or how it is even obious to tell that that word contains "frá" - I read about a rule for the first combination with pronouns - but not with prepositions.

I'm not even sure if it is combined, or if something about the form that word is in implies that "from" is in the question, if anything similar happens in another Norse language that explains what is going on here, I'd be very grateful if someone can explain it to me Thanks!


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## modus.irrealis

Hi,

It just seems that "hvaðan" (the internet seems to suggest that there is no "r") means "whence" which does mean "from where" but isn't formed with the word "from."


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## Alxmrphi

Ah that might be it, I assumed it was from the word "where" which is "hvar" so I think I must have just got mixed up typing it.

Where did you look to find that out by the way, just wondering if I can solve more of my problems in that way.


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## modus.irrealis

Alex_Murphy said:


> Where did you look to find that out by the way, just wondering if I can solve more of my problems in that way.



I looked for the word up at the dictionary at http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/, which just says "from where". But I have learned a bit of Old English, which has similarities with Icelandic, and I knew that it had a separate word for "from where," _hwanon, _and the ending is not all that different from the Icelandic word, so I thought that may be the answer.


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## Alxmrphi

Ah, so there is no morphing, it is just a different word that means from where, interesting! Thank you


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## Outsider

Alex_Murphy said:


> Ah, so there is no morphing, it is just a different word that means from where, interesting! Thank you


I think the word you need there is "contraction".


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## Alxmrphi

I know, my book uses contraction, but I think morphing sounds more fun


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## Joannes

I don't think it's likely that *frá* was a source for contraction with *hvar* to result in *hvarðan*. Let me suggest another possibility.

In Dutch a possible way to express 'from where' is *waarvandaan*. *Waar* means 'where' and according to the WNT *vandaan* developed out of *van*, which is a 'from' part, that was put in front of *daan* which on itself used to mean 'from there' but apparently needed strengthening at some stage. *Daan* is a cognate of English *thence*, so *vandaan* and *from thence* are the results the same evolution.

Why do I tell this story? Well, I think there's a good chance the *ðan* part of Icelandic *hvarðan* is cognate to *daan* and *thence*. Maybe the *van* / *from* part fell out in Icelandic at some point, or it never got in.

It might be interesting to look whether *ðan* is used on itself in Icelandic and what it means if it is. If it is not, it may be a contraction of something else, or - more probably - *hvarðan* is not (synchronically) complex and you just have to see it as 'from where'.


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## Alxmrphi

Thanks for your reply Joannes, it seems you are suggesting the same thing that modus did, which makes sense as you are quoting Dutch and he quoted Old English, and Icelandic as well are all Germanic languages so it may be consistant with what you say.

I don't think "frá" has anything to do with it now, just maybe the word is a combination to mean something like modus said "Whence".


> more probably - *hvarðan* is not (synchronically) complex and you just have to see it as 'from where'.


I suppose it's not important if I just remember it means from there, I need to stop asking these "why" questions, I should just accept what I read!

Thanks for your help.


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