# Earth (aarde) / nature (natuur) / ground (grond)



## ThomasK

I am referring to these 'terrestrial' words in English and Dutch. What strikes me is that both can be used metaphorically. Also in other languages? 

How would you translate these Dutch sentences? 
1. Hij woont op *aarde*. (He lives on (the ?) [planet] earth.) 

2. Hij is wreed*aard*ig. (He is cruel by nature [lit. _earth, or essence_])

3. Uw aanvraag is onge*grond.* [ill-founded, 'not well-based]. Less common: Zij heeft goede *gronden* om hier te zijn. (She has good 'grounds'/ reasons/ motives to be here) 

_(Mind you: 'aarde' and 'aard' might not be related etymologically speaking, but semantical evidence seems to justify that.)_

So: how 'terrestrial' is your language in this respect? I would like to know.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
Earth is Γη (ʝi, _f._)
1. Είναι κάτοικος της Γης/ζει στη Γη
*i*ne k*a*tikos tis ʝis/zi sti ʝi
[he/she] is an inhabitant of Earth/[he/she] lives on Earth.
When we describe someone who is a practical mind, who's not a fantast or star gazer, we say «πατάει/πατά στη Γη» (pat*a*i uncontracted/pat*a* contracted verb sti ʝi) lit. "[he/she]steps/keeps foothold on Earth". Or with emphasis, «πατάει/πατά γερά στη Γη» (pat*a*i uncontracted/pat*a* contracted verb ʝer*a* sti ʝi) lit. "[he/she] keeps strong foothold on Earth".
Instead of Γη the word έδαφος (*e*ðafos, _n._, the ground) can be also used.
2. Είναι σκληρός (_m._)/σκληρή (_f._)από τη φύση του (_m._)/της (_f._)
*i*ne sklir*o*s (_m._)/sklir*i* (_f._) ap*o* ti f*i*si tu (_m._)/tis (_f._)
lit. "he/she is cruel (σκληρός means hard, it describes the cruel one, too) by his/her nature"
φύση=f*i*si, _f._ is nature
3. Δεν έχει καλές βάσεις
ðen *e*xi kal*e*s v*a*sis
lit. "[he/she] doesn't have good bases" (bases is plural)

[ʝ] is a voiced palatal fricative
[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
[x] is a voiceless velar fricative, known as the hard ch


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## Awwal12

1. In Russian, Earth (the planet) = Земля (/Zemly*a*/). The same word beginning from the small letter ("земля", /zemlya/) means an earth or a ground, and can also mean a land or a soil in some contexts.
So, "He lives on the Earth" will be "Он живёт на Земле" (/On zhivy*o*t na Zeml*e*/).

2. He is cruel by nature. - Он по природе жесток. (/*O*n po prir*o*de zhest*o*k./) A good equivalent of the English phrase (lit.~ "He at nature cruel"). I even suppose that it's a calque.
Another variants are also possible:
"Он по натуре жесток." - /*O*n po nat*u*re zhest*o*k/ (the difference here is that "nat*u*ra" in modern language means only the nature of some person, not the nature itself).
"Он от природы жесток." - /*O*n ot prir*o*dy zhest*o*k/ (the difference is in preposition; lit. "He from nature cruel").
The words meaning "ground", "earth" etc. are totally useless there.

3.She has good 'grounds' (strong reasons) - У неё есть веские основания (/U ney*o* yest' v*e*skiye osnov*a*niya/), lit. ~"She has weighty bases". The main meaning of the word "основание" is a base, i.e. a part on which the entire object (abstract or real) is based.
For example:
основание горы - foot of a mountain
основание колонны - column socle

The only related phrase I can remind is a formal (and often medical) "на п*о*чве /na p*o*chve/ чего-л." - "because of smth.", "owing to smth." (literally - "on soil (of) smth."). But I suppose again that it's a calque from some European language.
У него нервный срыв *на почве* переутомления - He has a nervous breakdown *because of *the overstrain.


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## enoo

In French: 

Terrestrial = Terrestre 

1. the Earth = la Terre
He lives on (the?) Earth = Il vit sur la Terre.
_terre_ can also mean soil, ground or land.
And there's almost the same expression as in Greek "he/she keeps foothold on the ground": "il/elle garde les pieds sur terre". 

2. nature = nature 
He is cruel by nature = Il est cruel de/par nature.
_Nature_ means both the "natural world" and the "essence" of something/someone. (same as in English, it seems)

3. ill-founded ~= infondé / sans fondement (without base)
_fondement_  is the word that is used when talking about ideas
_fondation_ is the word used when talking about physical things (buildings, etc.).
_le fond_ means the bottom (of something).

"she has good grounds" - "Elle a de bonnes/solides raisons"(good/strong reasons)
I can't seem to find a ground-related word for that.


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## Hakro

In *Finnish*:

1) The same Finnish word_ maa_ means Earth, land, country and ground. Some other meanings are formed by compund words.
2) _Luonto_ can mean "nature" both in a concrete and in an abstract meaning (the nature of a person).
3) These expressions are formed with totally different words in Finnish.


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## Favara

enoo said:


> In French:
> 
> Terrestrial = Terrestre
> 
> 1. the Earth = la Terre
> He lives on (the?) Earth = Il vit sur la Terre.
> _terre_ can also mean soil, ground or land.
> And there's almost the same expression as in Greek "he/she keeps foothold on the ground": "il/elle garde les pieds sur terre".
> 
> 2. nature = nature
> He is cruel by nature = Il est cruel de/par nature.
> _Nature_ means both the "natural world" and the "essence" of something/someone. (same as in English, it seems)
> 
> 3. ill-founded ~= infondé / sans fondement (without base)
> _fondement_  is the word that is used when talking about ideas
> _fondation_ is the word used when talking about physical things (buildings, etc.).
> _le fond_ means the bottom (of something).
> 
> "she has good grounds" - "Elle a de bonnes/solides raisons"(good/strong reasons)
> I can't seem to find a ground-related word for that.


Almost the same in Catalan...
1. _Viu al planeta Terra / Viu a la Terra._
the Earth = _la Terra_
_Terra_ can also mean soil/ground (fem.) or land (masc.).
Same expression as in Greek and French: _Té els peus al terra_.

2. He/She/It is cruel by nature = _És cruel per natura_.
Nature = _natura_
Same natural world/essence meaning.

3. Ill-founded = _sense fonament_
_Fonament_ is used for both ideas and buildings.
_Fons_ = bottom of sth.


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## ThomasK

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> ðen *e*xi kal*e*s v*a*sis
> lit. "[he/she] doesn't have good bases" (bases is plural)



So you are using three different terms, interesting. 

I suppose we shall end up in a lot of cases referring to the idea of *earth/ ground as the basis of everything*: us mortals only finding stability (by gravity) on earth... 

I did hear from an *Estonian* that they can say 'good-created', which we have in Dutch too: 'rechtschapen' (right-created), almost as a synonym of 'rechtgeaard' (right-natured).

Just a practical hint for everyone, if you do not mind: please print the *translation of* the *key words* in bold, and underline the metalinguistic comments. It helps us read faster, I think. Thanks.



Awwal12 said:


> 3.She has good 'grounds' (strong reasons) - У неё есть веские основания (/U ney*o* yest' v*e*skiye osnov*a*niya/), lit. ~"She has weighty bases". The main meaning of the word "основание" is a base, i.e. a part on which the entire object (abstract or real) is based.
> For example:
> основание горы - foot of a mountain
> основание колонны - column socle
> 
> The only related phrase is a formal (and often medical) "на п*о*чве /na p*o*chve/ чего-л." (literally - "on soil (of) smth.").
> 
> But I suppose again that it's a calque from some European language.



3. Interesting: the idea of *'feet'* as the basis, but referring to stability on the ground. 

Why would you think it a calque? It seems fairly universal as a metaphor.



enoo said:


> In French:
> 
> _le fond_ means the bottom (of something).



Quite right, but *'fond'* and *'bottom'* refer to the *ground* (not just to the underlying part), so I believe. So we end up on/ in the earth/ soil again...



Hakro said:


> In *Finnish*:
> 
> 1) The same Finnish word_ maa_ means Earth, land, country and ground.



That is a big 'semantic scope' for one word, so I think. Are you suggesting that the single word can refer to all four meanings, but that you can simply create new meanings by adding words? I would like to see some examples of *maa* and _*maa*_ compounds in sentences, if you don't mind.


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Why would you think it a calque? It seems fairly universal as a metaphor.


Well, now I reconsider my opinion , but this use of the word "почва" has nothing to do with ground/basis as itself. "Почва" (a soil) here is something like an abstract nutrient medium, from which different consequences "grow". Also:
Последнее событие дало богатую *почву* для сплетен.
The last event paved a great way (?) (lit. gave a fertile soil) for a gossip.


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## ThomasK

Wait, Awwal, isn't the soil the 'basic' nutrient medium ? What would be a 'natural' way of using "почва" ? Why do you say it is 'abstract' ? All abstract terms mostly refer to very concrete things, as George Lakoff pointed out (in _Living by Metaphors_)...


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## Hakro

ThomasK said:


> Are you suggesting that the single word can refer to all four meanings, but that you can simply create new meanings by adding words? I would like to see some examples of *maa* and _*maa*_ compounds in sentences, if you don't mind.


Yes, the single word can refer to all four meanings:
- _Kolmas planeetta on Maa_ = The third planet is the Earth (Note that here Maa has capital M.)
- _Seuraavana päivänä näimme maata_ = The next day we sighted land
- _Venäjä on suurempi maa kuin Suomi _= Russia is a bigger country than Finland
- _Maa oli lumen peitossa_ = The ground was covered with snow

Besides:
- _Hän asuu maalla = _He lives in countryside 
- _Hän on aivan maassa_ = He's all down (downcast, downhearted)

Some compounds:
- _maapallo _= globe
- _ulkomailla_ = abroad
- _maanviljely_ = agriculture
- _maamoottori_ = stationary engine
- _maanmies_ = compatriot
- _maailma_ = world


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## ThomasK

Hakro said:


> - _Hän asuu maalla = _He lives in countryside
> - _Hän on aivan maassa_ = He's all down (downcast, downhearted)
> 
> Some compounds:
> - _maapallo _= globe
> - _ulkomailla_ = abroad
> - _maanviljely_ = agriculture
> - _maamoottori_ = stationary engine
> - _maanmies_ = compatriot
> - _maailma_ = world


 
Life must be complex for the Finnish ! ;-)

Very interesting: 
 - _Hän on aivan maassa/_ 'down': the reference to earth can be quite ambiguous, I now realize : to stability or to lack of power even...
  - _abroad_ in Dutch: _buiten-land_ (out(er)-land)
  - _agriculture_ ; land-bouw 
  - but a little strange is _maailma_, but yes, maybe we can sometimes replace one by the other, I guess
  - how do you translate a worldcitizen/ cosmopolite ?
  - the stationary engine: the engine being turned to earth then? Amazing !


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Wait, Awwal, isn't the soil the 'basic' nutrient medium ? What would be a 'natural' way of using "почва" ? Why do you say it is 'abstract' ? All abstract terms mostly refer to very concrete things, as George Lakoff pointed out (in _Living by Metaphors_)...


Well, but speaking that "_the event gave a fertile soil for a gossip_", nobody means that some dumper has left a pile of soil and old gossiping women began to grow from it.  So this meaning of the word "soil" is surely abstract one. But when I personally hear the word "почва" as itself, I imagine some mass of loose black soil, not an abstract "nutrient medium" in a Petri dish and not even more abstract things.


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## Hakro

ThomasK said:


> Life must be complex for the Finnish ! ;-)
> 
> Very interesting:
> - _- -_
> - but a little strange is _maailma_, but yes, maybe we can sometimes replace one by the other, I guess
> - how do you translate a worldcitizen/ cosmopolite ?
> - the stationary engine: the engine being turned to earth then? Amazing !


_Maa_ is a very rare word having so many meanings. Without context it's impossible to know exactly what it means. But at least we know it's a noun. Compare to English where the same word can be a noun, a verb (infinitive, present tense, past tense etc.) or even an adjective. A nightmare for a translator!

- _maailma = maa + ilma_ (earth + air)
- worldcitizen / cosmopolite = _maailmankansalainen / kosmopoliitti_
- A stationary engine is "tied to the ground", it doesn't move on roads, on water or in air. _Maamoottori_ is an archaistic term, not much in use anymore.


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## mataripis

In Tagalog:1.)He lives on Earth=(Nakatira(Lives) Siya(He) sa(on) Daigdig(Earth). 2.)He is cruel by nature.= Likas(nature) siyang (he) marahas(cruel). 3.)not well-based= Hindi(not) matatag(strong) na saligan(based/foundation).


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## ThomasK

So no link at all...


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## mataripis

Actually these three words in Tagalog , 1.) Daigdig/Lupa(Earth/Ground)  2.) Likas/Kalikasan(Nature)  and 3.) Saligan(Foundation)  are linked together. The Earth is Mother Nature and also  the foundation of many structures and habitat of all creations.


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## ThomasK

Could you be specific about the precise words: in (1) and (2) you mention different words, but why? All three seem different. Your note at the end is fine, but does that appear from the words? is there an etymological or linguistic link between teh Tagalog words for 'Earth', ''Nature' and 'mother' ? I guess not, but it was indeed the reason why I asked: whether you could link the three of them linguistically somehow.


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## 涼宮

Huy! This is a more complicated subject in Japanese, ThomasK 

 First, let's start with the word ''earth''.


If you say 土色 tsuchiiro it means ''earth'' only talking about the color.
If you say 土/地 tsuchi it means ''earth'' talking about soil or dirt, and historically it referred to earth as opposed to the heavens. And it can also mean the ground/ the land.
土 /do/ it's an abbreviation of Saturday and ''earth'' as one of the five elements.
土中 dochuu, means ''earth'' but when you talk about the underground. Thus the kanjis of earth + inside.

地球 chikyuu, only means ''the earth'', the planet. Lit: earthy ball.
And you have 大地 daichi, which means earth, the solid earth, ground or the vast land, as the first kanji suggests (大=big), it talks about big areas.

There are other ways with suffixes and the like to say compound things.

*He lives on the planet earth*= 彼は地球に住んでいる _kare wa chikyuu ni sundeiru_ (Informal)

*Nature*

自然 shizen, it refers to the mother nature, 自然界 shizenkai is the same thing. The word mother nature would be 大自然 daishizen ''great nature''. The word 自然 also refers to if something is natural or not, as in '' the sentence doesn't sound natural''
性格 seikaku, refers to nature talking about personality.
性 shou, refers to nature in Buddhism,  that which does not change according to external influences. (It can also refer to the nature of a thing or person, but as a suffix)

The expression ''by nature'' doesn't use any of the above words, Japanese uses the word 生まれつき umare tsuki, it's a mix of ''birth + including''

*He is cruel by nature* = 彼は生まれつき薄情だ。 _kare wa umare tsuki hakujou da_. (informal). (It exists several words for cruel depending on context, and what things you are cruel to)

PS: There are other ways to translate _by nature_ depending on context, it doesn't work for everything like in English.


*Ground*

地面 jimen, it refers to the earth's surface.
土 tsuchi, it refers to soil.
地色 jiiro, it refers to the color.
アース aasu (This is a borrowing) this is used in electrical contexts.

(There are other ways to say ground)

And finally the expression ''to have good grounds'' doesn't use the word ''ground''

*She has good grounds for being here* =　彼女はここにきたのには根拠 or 理由がある。 kanojo wa koko ni kita no ni wa _konkyo_ or _riyuu_ ga aru. 

The expression uses the word basis or reason but not ground.

As you see no methaphorical way is used. You will find that most of the things you share in many languages are not said in Japanese since it uses kanji, and every kanji represents a concept, an idea, therefore you will find many concepts that don't apply to every expression , and I think the same thing applies to Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.

I hope this was interesting for you.


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## jazyk

I'll use the French template:

In Portuguese: 

Terrestrial = Terrestre, terráqueo

1. the Earth = a Terra
He lives on (the?) Earth = Ele vive na Terra.
_terra_ can also mean soil, ground or land.
And there's almost the same expression as in Greek "he/she keeps foothold on the ground": "Ele tem os pés na terra". 

2. nature = natureza
He is cruel by nature = Ele é cruel por natureza.
_Natureza_ means both the "natural world" and the "essence" of something/someone. (same as in English, it seems)

3. ill-founded ~= infundado / sem fundamento (without base)
_fundament_o  is the word that is used when talking about ideas
_fundação_ is the word used when talking about physical things (buildings, etc.).
_o fundo _means the bottom (of something).

"she has good grounds" - "Ela tem boas/sólidas razões"(good/strong reasons)


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## ThomasK

_Thanks, gentlemen/ ladies! Thazt was worth the while !

_Japanese _- _''earth'' talking about soil or dirt: wow, interesting, we have that link as well, but in dialects, I think --- and it reminds me of dualistic Catholic views on earth as opposed to heaven, valley of tears, to be transcended, etc. (had not thought of the dirt association)
- *underground *in the literal sense, you mean: where minerals are, etc., I guess
- the *'do' *element : what is the link with Saturday? And: what are the five elements (water, fire, earth, er... - sorry, don't remember)
- so earth (dirt) and earth (planet) have a same root, "do", which is not used separately ? 

- *shou/ shi*: is there a link with force/ power, as in _t'ai chi, Ki Qong_? 
- I see you do have a link between _natura/ fusis _and human nature; the link seems to be power, root power, I guess: that which comes in to existence (_nasci _in Lat.) or grows (Gr. _fu_-) by itself 
- no link between *chou and tsu*, I guess 
- how do you translate '[someone *has] a cruel nature' *then and/r how do you use *seikaku *? 
- *earth's surface*: in what kind of sense do you use it ? As in : _He has disappeared from the face of the earth_ ? _Trees grow on earth _? 

- what is the basis of your *reason *word ? Thinking, ratio ? Or... 
- hints at other uses of ground are still welcome (just hints will do, but more is welcome as well)

As you can see, I have really had a close look at your words !



jazyk said:


> I'll use the French template:
> 
> In Portuguese:
> 
> Terrestrial = Terrestre, terráqueo
> 
> 1. the Earth = a Terra
> _terra_ can also mean soil, ground or land.
> And there's almost the same expression as in Greek "he/she keeps *foothold* on the ground": "Ele tem os pés na terra".
> 
> 2. nature = natureza
> He is cruel by nature = Ele é cruel por natureza.
> _Natureza_ means both *the "natural world" and the "essence" of something/someone*. (same as in English, it seems)
> 
> 3. ill-founded ~= infundado / sem fundamento (without base)
> _o fundo _means *the bottom *(of something).
> 
> "she has good grounds" - "Ela tem boas/sólidas razões"(good/strong reasons)



Could you give some more examples with natureza as natural world? Are you referring to fauna and flora ? 

The bottom meaning is interesting as well. There are indeed quite some words referring to the different meanings of - I think we could call it: - the underlying concept: stability, basis, lower/bottom, etc.


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## 涼宮

ThomasK said:


> - *underground *in the literal sense, you mean: where minerals are, etc., I guess.


 yes 


> - the *'do' *element : what is the link with Saturday? And: what are the five elements (water, fire, earth, er... - sorry, don't remember)


In Japanese philosophy it is: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky.


> - so earth (dirt) and earth (planet) have a same root, "do", which is not used separately ?


土 is not very used isolate, but it can be used. It is usually in compound words.

The link with Saturday is because in Japanese the weekdays have an element or the moon/sun:

Monday 月曜日　getsuyoubi (moon)
Tuesday　火曜日 kayoubi (fire)
Wednesday　水曜日 suiyoubi (water)
Thursday　木曜日 mokuyoubi (wood)
Friday　金曜日 kinyoubi (gold)
Saturday　土曜日 doyoubi (earth)
Sunday　日曜日 nichiyoubi (sun)

I don't know the etymological reason of why the elements are used to tell the weekdays.  Something similar happens with the months, you don't have a word for each month, you just say number + moon. So for example, July would be '' seventh moon'' 七月 shichigatsu.


> - *shou/ shi*: is there a link with force/ power, as in _t'ai chi, Ki Qong_?


In Japanese the sound of sh is not the same as ch, there is a lot of difference between saying and writting shi 死/四 (death/four) and chi 血/地 (blood/earth). The word force/power, among many others, is 力 chikara, nevertheless, what you are asking for is Chinese not Japanese, the word  T'ai chi ch'uan (the martial art) is  太极拳 Lit: Supreme ultimate fist. It doesn't use the word ''force''. Qigong/Chi kung is also Chinese. 气功= air/vital energy + result/accomplishment 


> - no link between *chou and tsu*, I guess.


I don't fathom quite well what you mean here, chou can mean super/butterfly/government/chief/dynasty, etc most of them as suffixes except butterfly, all of them have different kanjis. Shou is another completely different thing, being nature as one of the meanings I gave you. tsu by itself means a suffix for habrbour or ferry.


> - how do you translate '[someone *has] a cruel nature' *then and/r how do you use *seikaku *?


Cruel nature would be 残酷な性格 zankoku na seikaku, nevertheless ''he has a cruel nature'' would be 彼は残酷な人格の持ち主だ。 kare wa zankoku na jinkaku no mochinushi da. Lit: he (is) the owner of a cruel personality. You can also say 彼は残酷な性格だ kare wa zankoku na seikaku da. Lit: he (is) of cruel personality. Seikaku is a noun.


> - *earth's surface*: in what kind of sense do you use it ? As in : _He has disappeared from the face of the earth_ ? _Trees grow on earth _?


What I mean by ''earth's surface'' is just that, the thing you touch with your feet, as in ''a dead leaf fell to the ground'',  １枚の枯れ葉が地面に落ちた ichimai no kareha ga jimen ni ochita. '' the face of the earth'' is an expression, it is 球全体 kyuuzentai. globe/sphere + whole. nevertheless, you don't use that word for saying ''he disappeared from the face of the earth''. that sentence would be 彼は地球上から姿を消した。 kare wa chikyuujou kara sugata wo keshita. Lit: as regard to him from on the planet earth, the form/shape/appearance extinguished. 地球上 is a set phrase to say ''on earth/on the planet''.  Trees grow on the ground uses 地面 jimen, 木は地面で育つ ki wa jimen de sodatsu.

I know this can be frustrating, because it requires more study and vocabulary  Japanese simply doesn't use the same word for everything, it depends entirely on the context. Because as I told you, kanjis, which express entire concepts/ideas, play an important role in the meaning.


> - what is the basis of your *reason *word ? Thinking, ratio ? Or...


If you mean the things that form the word riyuu (reason) it is logic/reason/justice + reason. I know it can sound kind of reduntant, but Japanese tends to avoid monosyllabic words since a syllable in Japanese can have too many meanings. In any case, it would be better to use them in written and not spoken. The kanji always tells the meaning.


> - hints at other uses of ground are still welcome (just hints will do, but more is welcome as well).


We would die of old age if we list the things that Japanese say that don't use ''ground'' as in English. 

I hope this was interesting for you  Don't confuse Chinese with Japanese, the pronunciation between them is a different world, and not all the hanzis/kanji share the same meaning in both languages. If you are interested in learning Japanese, just be patient, as you saw, it has too many words for everything, I think it's like Greek in this matter.


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## terredepomme

> The link with Saturday is because in Japanese the weekdays have an element or the moon/sun:
> Monday 月曜日　getsuyoubi (moon)
> Tuesday　火曜日 kayoubi (fire)
> Wednesday　水曜日 suiyoubi (water)
> Thursday　木曜日 mokuyoubi (wood)
> Friday　金曜日 kinyoubi (gold)
> Saturday　土曜日 doyoubi (earth)
> Sunday　日曜日 nichiyoubi (sun)


Probably an analogy with the planets.
月曜日=Monday and 日曜日=Sunday are obvious, since they are "moon-day" and "sun-day."
The other five days are the names of planets, 火星(Mars - Martes), 水星(Mercury - miércoles), etc, as in European names of weekdays.
Why were the planets named as such? It's based on the 五行 philosophy of ancient Chinese thought, where the five planets were named after the five _Goings_(行), i.e. fire-water-wood-earth-metal(not gold). That's why in Korean and Chinese the planets are called 行星.

By the way tsuti is never written as 地 though. Just 土.

Like Japanese, Korean does not have this metaphorical similarities.

1. Hij woont op aarde.
그 남자는 지구(地求)에 살고있다. - 地求 is the same in Japanese as in Chinese, meaning "ground-ball."
2. Hij is wreedardig.
그 남자는 천성(天性)이 잔인하다. - 天性 means "the nature given by the heavens" 
3. Uw aanvraag is ongegrond.
I didn't really understand this sentence. "Your request(question) is unfounded?" 
Anyways being unfounded would be translated as "근거(根據)가 없다". 근거(根據) literally means "the root-base."


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## 涼宮

terredepomme said:


> By the way tsuti is never written as 地 though. Just 土.



The dictionary says it can be read as つし and つち but it is probably not a common reading for it. Perhaps for proper names. Here you have on Wikipedia something.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%B0


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## ThomasK

This is great information, but I need more time! Thanks a lot and I'll be in touch !


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## ThomasK

I had just been wondering about this issue today, and now discover that I - or my former self - had asked about it when I was much younger. 

Should anyone want to throw in his or her 10 cents, please do - and let us not forget about variants for earth, like 'soil', maybe 'bottom' (as in Dutch "bodem" refers to the inside of the earth/ ground, where seeds can germinate, and the bottom as well)...

BTW: Italian refers to *terra *(ground, earth) and to *terreno *(soil), all based on the same root. Aard will be natura, grounds will be _motivi_, or _ragione. 

_I think we will end up finding other words for *grounds*, if we think of *foundations*_,_ which  refer to the ground, I'd think, though not etymologically...


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## mirind4

Nice and interesting thread!

Let's see what about in the Hungarian language:

Earth = *Föld*

Some additional words with "*föld*"
*föld -*  soil
*föld*szint - ground (floor)
*föld*tan - geology
*föld*mûves - ploughman
*föld*rész - continent 
*föld*önkívüli -   extraterrestrial

The translations of the given sentences:

He lives on the Earth - Ő a Földön él.
Regarding this, we usually say the following sentence: Ő a Földön jár = He "walks" on the Earth. This saying means that someone(f.e: he) is realistic.

He is cruel by nature - To be honest I do not know any sentence which is similar to this in Hungarian. Maybe this one: Ő kegyetlen természetű (cruel = kegyetlen, nature = természet) But I am not sure that it's the proper translation of it...

She has good 'grounds'/ reasons/ motives to be here - Neki jó oka van, hogy itt legyen. There is an another sentence for "She has good bases/grounds": Neki jó alapjai vannak. This means that someone has good base knowledge in a topic/subject/etc.
alap = base
alapozás = foundation
alapos = Example sentence: Ő alapos munkát végez. This means that someone makes a good/thorough/well-done job.


Have a nice weekend!
Cheers!


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## ThomasK

Could you illustrate the 'alap' in some other combinations? Can you make a verb out of it? Is an _alap _concrete? Maybe it will be come clearer in sentences. What I meant was: it must be correct because it is well-founded...


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## AutumnOwl

*Swedish:*
1. Earth - _Jorden_
jord - soil - _jorden är torr _- the soil is dry
land - land, ground - _på torra land_ - on dry land
mark - land, soil - _på fast mark_ - on firm ground

2. Nature - _natur_, both concrete and abstract meaning

3. Ill-founded - ogrundad
_grund_ - foundation
_berggrund_ - bedrock

There are several similarities between Swedish and Finnish when it comes to the use of the word _land_ and _jord_.


Hakro said:


> Yes, the single word can refer to all four meanings:
> - _Kolmas planeetta on Maa_ = The third planet is the Earth (Note that here Maa has capital M.) - Den tredje planeten är Jorden
> - _Seuraavana päivänä näimme maata_ = The next day we sighted land - Nästa dag siktade vi land
> - _Venäjä on suurempi maa kuin Suomi _= Russia is a bigger country than Finland - Ryssland är ett större land än Finland
> - _Maa oli lumen peitossa_ = The ground was covered with snow - Marken är täckt med snö
> 
> Besides:
> - _Hän asuu maalla = _He lives in countryside Han bor på landet
> - _Hän on aivan maassa_ = He's all down (downcast, downhearted)
> 
> Some compounds:
> - _maapallo _= globe - jordglob
> - _ulkomailla_ = abroad - utomlands
> - _maanviljely_ = agriculture - jordbruk, lantbruk
> - _maamoottori_ = stationary engine
> - _maanmies_ = compatriot - landsman
> - _maailma_ = world - jorden



There is a wellknown song in Swedish "Änglamark", the first lines are "Kalla den Änglamarken eller Himlajorden om du vill, jorden vi ärvde och lunden den gröna" - Call it Angelground or Heavenearth if you want, the Earth we inherited and the green grove.


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## Armas

In Finnish ground could perhaps also be tanner, (maan)kamara or maaperä. Tanner is an (open, hard) ground and is related to tundra, a Sami word. The basic meaning of kamara is (or was) hard surface, whence it means the surface of the Earth, i.e. ground, and also pork rind! Maaperä is a compound of maa (earth, land, country, gound) and perä, which is quite an interesting word meaning both "rear part, behind" and "foundation."

peräseinä = back wall
kallioperä = bedrock
peruuttaa = to back (move backwards), to revoke, cancel
perus- = basic, fundamental
perustaa = to found, establish, to base (on)
perustua = to be based on
perustus = groundwork, foundation


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## Gavril

Welsh:

planet Earth = y _Ddaear _(etymology outside British Celtic unknown; "dd" = [ð] in Welsh orthography)

nature (of a person, etc.) = _natur_, _anian_ (the latter possibly from Celtic *_ande_- "in(side)" + *_gan_- "to be born")

grounding, foundation (of an opinion, etc.) = _sail_ (from Latin _solea_ "sole (of feet, shoes)"); "ill-grounded" =_ di-sail, "_well-grounded"_ = cadarn ei sail _("firm its grounding")


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## ThomasK

Armas said:


> In Finnish ground could perhaps also be tanner, (maan)kamara or maaperä. Tanner is an (open, hard) ground and is related to tundra, a Sami word. The basic meaning of kamara is (or was) hard surface, whence it means the surface of the Earth, i.e. ground, and also pork rind! Maaperä is a compound of maa (earth, land, country, gound) and perä, which is quite an interesting word meaning both "rear part, behind" and "foundation."
> 
> peräseinä = back wall
> kallioperä = bedrock
> peruuttaa = to back (move backwards), to revoke, cancel
> perus- = basic, fundamental
> perustaa = to found, establish, to base (on)
> perustua = to be based on
> perustus = groundwork, foundation


This is an intriguing addition, as for me. The main thing seems to the 'foundational' status of the earth, it seems to me. But then: do you use _*tanner *_in metaphorical contexts? Could I say that *maaperä *is like 'soil'? I suppose *perä *is more often used to earth/ground metaphorically. 
But rear and behind are logical associations, I think. The link with foundation is not, but I thought of something : apparently we use the *back *(or behind) to support (found ?) something... 

In the meantime I checked on the meaning of _fundare_, and etymonline.com tells me that it refers to laying the bottom of something, and is based on the "PIE root *bhudh- "bottom, base" "...


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> Could I say that *maaperä *is like 'soil'?


Yes, if you by "soil" mean all the loose material, both topsoil and subsoil, that covers the bedrock.


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## ThomasK

Ah, now I see some link with the bedrock, which we call 'de bedding'  of a river, the bed of the river, so to speak. But is bedrock composed of loose material only? I associate 'soil' with the fertile ground - but I am not a native speaker of English.


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## AutumnOwl

Bedrock is not loose material, it's the stone beneath the layers of soil, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedrock


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot, I have discovered one of the fossilised mistakes in my memory! ;-(


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## mirind4

ThomasK said:


> Could you illustrate the 'alap' in some other combinations? Can you make a verb out of it? Is an _alap _concrete? Maybe it will be come clearer in sentences. What I meant was: it must be correct because it is well-founded...



Of course I can 

*Alap* = Foundation - The "*alap*" word means "foundation" of a building. It is the lowest and supporting layer of a structure, and usually made of concrete. For example: They are making the foundation of the building. Ők készítik az épület alapját. (ők = they, készítik = making, alap = foundation, épület = building) 
A verb can be made of the alap base word: *alap*ozni. It is a verb for making the foundation. For instance: Ők *alap*oznak - (I do not know wether there is a similar verb in English...)
The process of the foundation work: *alap*ozás

On the other hand, the other translation of the foundation is: *alap*_ít_vány. It is a type of organization, and if i am not mistaken, these are usually non-profit. Actually you can found a foundation, and there is also a verb of "to found" in hungarian too: *alap*_ít_ . Ők alapítják az alapítványt - They are founding the foundation.

Additional words for the "*alap*" baseword:

-* alap*szik = based [on]. For example: Ez igaz történeten alapszik(Ez=It, igaz = true, történet = story, alapszik = based [on]) - It is based on true story.
- a fun one: the "*alap*ozni" verb is usually used by the younger generation. When they drink some alcoholic beverage(beer, wine) before a party, they can be said: Ők *alap*oznak. So they are preparing/founding the foundation(good mood) for the night party.

I hope it helps, and If I can remember more word relating to this topic, I will let you know


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