# "αυτόν" and "αυτήν"



## LoraLanguage

When "αυτόν" and "αυτήν" are used? In accusative case...? Which of these is correct: "Με αυτόν τον τρόπο" or "Με αυτό τον τρόπο"?


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## sotos

LoraLanguage said:


> When "αυτόν" and "αυτήν" are used? In accusative case...?


In many cases.


> Which of these is correct: "Με αυτόν τον τρόπο" or "Με αυτό τον τρόπο"?


Both correct.


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## LoraLanguage

sotos said:


> In many cases.
> 
> Both correct.


Thanks but could you give me examples because I really don't know when to use them?


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## Perseas

In written speech it's _αυτόν_ but in oral you keep v when the next word starts with κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ. Eg. _Αυτό*ν* τον άνθρωπο_. (School grammar).


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## LoraLanguage

Perseas said:


> In written speech it's _αυτόν_ but in oral you keep v when the next word starts with κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ. Eg. _Αυτό*ν* τον άνθρωπο_. (School grammar).


If I understand correctly it's "_αυτόν/αυτήν" _when the next word starts with some of these letters and combinations "κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ" but in ordinary speech "ν" can be omitted. Am I right? I have only one more question. Is it possible to be _"αυτόν/αυτήν" _if takes place of a subject in a sentence?


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## Perseas

LoraLanguage said:


> If I understand correctly it's "_αυτόν/αυτήν" _when the next word starts with some of these letters and combinations "κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ" but in ordinary speech "ν" can be omitted. Am I right?



Not exactly. 
Masculine pronoun in accusative: In written speech it's always_ αυτόν,_ but in oral speech you keep v only when the next word starts with_ κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ._
Feminine pronoun in accusative: In written speech it retains v only when the next word starts with _κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ. _In ordinary speech you can omit v anyway.



LoraLanguage said:


> I have only one more question. Is it possible to be _"αυτόν/αυτήν" _if takes place of a subject in a sentence?


_"αυτόν/αυτήν" _as a subject? How? They are in accusative.


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## LoraLanguage

Perseas said:


> Not exactly.
> Masculine pronoun in accusative: In written speech it's always_ αυτόν,_ but in oral speech you keep v only when the next word starts with_ κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ._
> Feminine pronoun in accusative: In written speech it retains v only when the next word starts with _κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ. _In ordinary speech you can omit v anyway.
> 
> 
> _"αυτόν/αυτήν" _as a subject? How? They are in accusative.


Hm I think that this is confusing. I don't understand why exist two different rules for the written and for oral speech but it doesn't matter. I think I understood it finally! 


Perseas said:


> _"αυτόν/αυτήν" _as a subject? How? They are in accusative.


Yes, exactly! I thought the same thing but when I asked if they are in accusative I couldn't understand if I am right. However, thank you!


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## Rallino

Perseas said:


> In written speech it's _αυτόν_ but in oral you keep v when the next word starts with κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ. Eg. _Αυτό*ν* τον άνθρωπο_. (School grammar).



Hello,

does δεν/δε work the same way?


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## Perseas

Rallino said:


> Hello,
> 
> does δεν/δε work the same way?


About _δε(ν)_ & _μη(ν)_ applies the same rule as for the feminine pronoun _αυτή(ν)_:

In written speech it retains v only when the next word starts with _κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ._

Here you can see the rules about the final v in written speech (in Greek):
_http://publications.europa.eu/code/el/el-4100400el.htm_


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## LoraLanguage

Perseas said:


> About _δε(ν)_ & _μη(ν)_ applies the same rule as for the feminine pronoun _αυτή(ν)_:
> 
> In written speech it retains v only when the next word starts with _κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ._
> 
> Here you can see the rules about the final v in written speech (in Greek):
> _http://publications.europa.eu/code/el/el-4100400el.htm_


Isn't it the rule about "δε(ν) & μη(ν)" that in every speech "ν" retains if the next word starts with vowel or with _κ,π,τ,γκ,μπ,ντ,τσ,τζ,ξ,ψ??? I have read it many places and I have asked native speakers... They explained it to me in that way. You don't say anything about vowels. Why?????? _


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## Perseas

LoraLanguage said:


> Isn't it the rule about "δε(ν) & μη(ν)" that in every speech ...


The school grammar doesn't say "in every speech", it says "in written speech" («στον γραπτό λόγο»).



LoraLanguage said:


> You don't say anything about vowels. Why??????


Right, and vowels. In the link I gave above it is stated «διατηρούν το τελικό ν όταν η λέξη που ακολουθεί αρχίζει από φωνήεν ή από στιγμιαίο σύμφωνο,δηλαδή από τα γράμματα *κ*,* π*,* τ*, τις διφθόγγους *μπ*, *ντ*, *γκ*, *τσ* και *τζ* και τα διπλά *ξ* και *ψ*»


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## LoraLanguage

Perseas said:


> The school grammar doesn't say "in every speech", it says "in written speech" («στον γραπτό λόγο»).
> 
> Right, and vowels. In the link I gave above it is stated «διατηρούν το τελικό ν όταν η λέξη που ακολουθεί αρχίζει από φωνήεν ή από στιγμιαίο σύμφωνο,δηλαδή από τα γράμματα *κ*,* π*,* τ*, τις διφθόγγους *μπ*, *ντ*, *γκ*, *τσ* και *τζ* και τα διπλά *ξ* και *ψ*»


Εντάξει, τώρα είμαι ήσυχη! Ευχαριστώ!


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