# Norwegian: brakt på det rene



## Oddrun

Hei,
kan ikke finne hva uttrykket "brakt på det rene" betyr. Kan noen hjelpe?
Setningen det står i er følgende: "Oppmåling er foretatt på overflater, og bygningskonstruksjoners innvendige beskaffenhet er ikke brakt på det rene".


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## timtfj

Er disse ordbokartiklene for _å brake_ og _ren_ i Språkrådets online ordbok til noe hjelp? Artiklen for _ren_ omfatter uttrykkene "ha noe på det rene" og "være på det rene med".


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## Åvävvla

I'd assume the infinitive is _bringe_ and not _brake_. "Bringe på det rene" would mean "find out, establish, prove", but I'd wait for a native speaker to confirm before I'd have it tattooed anywhere important.


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## timtfj

Åvävvla said:


> I'd suppose the infinitive is _bringe_ and not _brake_. "Bringe på det rene" would mean "find out, establish, prove", but I'd wait for a native speaker to confirm before I'd have it tattooed anywhere important.


Having checked again, I agree. I originally searched for _brakt,_ and oddly _bringe_ didn't come up, only _brake_. But the entries for both give _brakt_ as their past participle.


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## Oddrun

Åvävvlas forslag høres sannsynlig ut : )


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## Ben Jamin

Oddrun said:


> Hei,
> kan ikke finne hva uttrykket "brakt på det rene" betyr. Kan noen hjelpe?
> Setningen det står i er følgende: "Oppmåling er foretatt på overflater, og bygningskonstruksjoners innvendige beskaffenhet er ikke brakt på det rene".



"Å bringe på det rene" (i perfektum: "er brakt på det rene" ) betyr "å avklare (noe utenom tvil)"/"establish/wyjasnic.
OBS! Setningen egentlig burde lyde: Oppmåling er foretatt på overflater, *men *bygningskonstruksjoners innvendige beskaffenhet er ikkebrakt på det rene".


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## basslop

Ben Jamin: You pointed out a very important distinction here using "*men*" instead of "og".


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## NorwegianNYC

timtfj said:


> Having checked again, I agree. I originally searched for _brakt,_ and oddly _bringe_ didn't come up, only _brake_. But the entries for both give _brakt_ as their past participle.



'Brake' (= bang, crash) is also verb category 1, so Preterit would be 'braket'


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## hanne

Ben Jamin said:


> OBS! Setningen egentlig burde lyde: Oppmåling er foretatt på overflater, *men *bygningskonstruksjoners innvendige beskaffenhet er ikkebrakt på det rene".



I don't agree with this - there's no opposition between the two parts of the sentence, as "men" would usually imply. It looks to me as if (only) the surface was measured, *and* the internal condition has (therefore) not be clarified.

I agree with basslop that there's an important distinction between men and og, but I don't see any indications that "men" would be more appropriate here.


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## Ben Jamin

hanne said:


> I don't agree with this - there's no opposition between the two parts of the sentence, as "men" would usually imply. It looks to me as if (only) the surface was measured, *and* the internal condition has (therefore) not be clarified.
> 
> I agree with basslop that there's an important distinction between men and og, but I don't see any indications that "men" would be more appropriate here.



Norwegian often uses “men” even there where one would not use a corresponding word in other languages, but here there is an obvious opposition: the exterior was examined, but the interior of the construction was not.


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## timtfj

NorwegianNYC said:


> 'Brake' (= bang, crash) is also verb category 1, so Preterit would be 'braket'


Well it's obviously the wrong verb here because of its meaning---but in the original context it looks like a past participle  not preterite _(bygningskonstruksjoners innvendige beskaffenhet er ikke brakt på det rene), _and Språkrådet's dictionary entry says _brake_ can be either category 1 or 2. Doesn't this mean they accept both _brakt_ and _braket _as the past particple?

Sorry to quibble, as I'm not Norwegian and all I'm doing is looking things up in the Språkrådet dictionary, but... Well unless I've misunderstood their popup boxes, they do give _brakt_ as a past participle of _brake_.


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## NorwegianNYC

Hi timtfj - you are indeed correct! I looked it up myself and found the same thing. I have always assumed "brake" was category 1 (probably because I have seen it written that way), but since it has a long stem vowel it really ought to be category 2.


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