# 'Halal' - 'holy' ?



## ThomasK

Could there be a link ?


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## Mahaodeh

I don't think so, according to the online etymology dictionary, Holy comes from proto-Germanic and is more likely to be linked with whole and happiness.

Halal, on the other hand, comes from the root H-L-L in Arabic, which has the meanings of "loosining and untieing in addition to permitting and occupying (a space)". I don't know if it has any cognates in other Semitic languages.


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## berndf

Mahaodeh said:


> Halal, on the other hand, comes from the root H-L-L in Arabic, which has the meanings of "loosining and untieing in addition to permitting and occupying (a space)". I don't know if it has any cognates in other Semitic languages.


In Hebrew H-L-L (in the "Pi3el"-form, i.e. _hillel_ which also exists as a proper name) means _to praise, to glorify_.


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## CapnPrep

The root is *ḥll*, not *hll*, and it means "to be(come) clean, pure, holy," according to the AHD. The Hebrew month name _Elul_ may be derived from this root (< ḥalālum).


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## Tamar

> The Hebrew month name _Elul_ may be derived from this root (< ḥalālum).


 
Elul does not have the sound ḥ, so I looked up Elul and found that apparently it comes from Akkadian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elul

The Hebrew root חלל* kh-l-l* seems to me to be a Hebrew root equivalent to *ḥll *(today we pronounce kh, but I think it could have been a ḥ in the past). חלל has more than one meaning, [khalal] is space or cavity. 
[lekhalel] is a verb meaning: to play the flute or to *desecrate.*


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## berndf

CapnPrep said:


> The root is *ḥll*, not *hll*...


You are right, the relevant root is *ḥll*, not *hll*! My previous answer is correct as to Mahaodeh's question the way he put it but irrelevant to the question of the thread.


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## ThomasK

_Khalal_: space or cavity, you write, Tamar. Those words seem related but still: spacious and shut off ??? I suppose there is no contradiction as one could say they both refer to space in some form, but OK... 

And then: from that stem to playing the flute or desecrate ??? 

Maybe it is not so relevant, but any explanation is interesting to me. (I could imagine a link between holiness and cavities, rather than between holiness and space - although one could link holiness and wholeness, I once read, I believe --- But this is all very interesting !)


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## berndf

Tamar said:


> ...today we pronounce kh, but I think it could have been a ḥ in the past...


Yes, Hebrew/Aramaic ח and Arabic ح (ḥ) are equivalent.


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## Tamar

> And then: from that stem to playing the flute or desecrate ???


 
I'm afraid so, I have no idea how that is...

The only thing here that seems to be somehow truely relevent is "to descrate" (the word khalal also means "dead person", although today mostly used to speak of a slodier who dies in combat or at a "military accident". It took me a while, but i've just realized that this has to do with the fact that "khalal" is space...).

Oh! maybe the meaning of playing the flute comes from the noun חליל [khalil] "flute" (and maybe [khalil] is because it's חלול [khalul] hollow?) 
This is a very nice guessing game...

I can't think of a connection between holiness and the rest, nor can I find anything online


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## berndf

ThomasK said:


> _Khalal_: space or cavity, you write, Tamar. Those words seem related but still: spacious and shut off ??? I suppose there is no contradiction as one could say they both refer to space in some form, but OK...


This is not related. Arabic ح (ḥ) and خ (kh) merged* in *ancient* Hebrew to ח (ḥ). This explains the completely unrelated meanings of חלל .חלל = space or cavity is in Arabic خلل (khalal) and not حلل (ḥalal).

------------------
*N.B.: this has nothing to do with the *modern* Hebrew merger of the pronunciations of ח (Khet) and כ (Khaf=Kaf without Dagesh).


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## CapnPrep

This third root is listed in AHD as *ḫll* with the meaning "to pierce". The Hebrew example they give is _challah_, maybe because the bread was "perforated". Arabic _al ḫilāl_ is the origin of Spanish _alfiler_ "pin".

Like berndf said, nothing to do with "halal", which has nothing to do (etymologically) with "holy", based on the available evidence. As for guessing games, the sky's the limit — or the moderators' patience, whichever falls first.


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## Tamar

Thanks brendf!


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## berndf

CapnPrep said:


> The Hebrew example they give is _challah..._


I doubt a relationship there. That Shabbath bread is חַלָּה, with one long lamed (indicated by the dot in לּ), not with two lameds. In this respect _challah_ is a misleading transcription.


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## CapnPrep

In addition to the AHD, many other sources propose the same etymology for _challah_. As always, it's just a hypothesis. I don't know how they explain the missing/geminate lamed, but I'm sure they are aware of it.


Strong's Hebrew Dictionary (#2471)
College Press NIV Commentary (Leviticus & Numbers p. 272)
 Encyclopedia Judaica (quoted here)
 the OED: "prob. f. Heb. _ḥll_ hollow, pierce (perh. a reference to its original form)"


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## berndf

Maybe you are right. There is no reason to assume that ancient spellings are necessarily etymologically correct. I have no idea if biblical Hebrew phonetically distinguished between long consonants and two successive identical consonants with a null-vowel (_shwa naḥ_) in between.


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## amikama

Don't forget the verb חִלֵּל = he desecrated 

Another related word is חֹל = secular (as opposed to קֹדֶשׁ = holiness).


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## berndf

amikama said:


> Don't forget the verb חִלֵּל = he desecrated


Tamar mentioned this in #5. I was under the impression it was sufficiently clear that this is the relevant cognate. If not, it is a good thing you (re-)emphasized it.


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## amikama

berndf said:


> Tamar mentioned this in #5. I was under the impression it was sufficiently clear that this is the relevant cognate. If not, it is a good thing you (re-)emphasized it.


Sorry, I didn't read her post carefully


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## ThomasK

I am still trying to grasp this (as my knowledge of Hebrew (and H spelling) is non-existent). I seem to understand that kh-l-l is different from h-l-l, and that it does not make sense to 'postulate' a link between _halal_ and _holy_. Correct ?


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## berndf

Let's say there is not enough evidence. _Holy_ is clearly Indo-European and _Halal_ Semitic. Whatever the ancient connections between these language groups might have been (if there were any), we don't know enough to reconstuct them. Hence, for the time being, it indeed makes no sense.

Yes, kh-l-l, ḥ-l-l are different roots. Arabic preserved the difference, Hebrew did not which caused double meanings in Hebrew. The relevant root is *ḥ-l-l*.
And... h-l-l (no dot under the "h", i.e. just a plain normal "h") is yet a third root which is distinguishable in both languages (I don't know if h-l-l exists in Arabic, in Hebrew it does).


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot, I just wanted to explore that track, as the similarity seemed obvious and/ or I was about to get carried away by possible resemblances (I am not a scientist)...


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## berndf

Historically, Semitic languages borrowed relatively little from European languages.  In modern times they borrow, of course. But if they borrow you often won't see any resemblance: because of the strict grammatical rules loan words have to be assimilated heavily; e.g. the verb _to *t*e*l*e*p*ho*n*e_ became _le*t*a*lp*e*n *_in Hebrew.


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