# Tame, to tame



## ThomasK

How would you translate "*(a) tame (animal)*"  and "*to tame (an animal)*"?

A small extra: can you use it metaphorically? Like in "*too tame a party*"? (In fact I'd love to explore the whole semantic field of "submission" and adjectives or verbs linked with that, but I'll take that to the Language Lab) Or another word that you use for a sheep's character (herd spirit)?


----------



## Welsh_Sion

ThomasK.

This looks like being an interesting thread and my first reaction was to think you were referring to something like 'making a wild animal domesticated' as the verb or 'a non-wild' animal as the adjective.

Considering further that 'tame' can also mean 'innocent' or 'not very sophisticated/crude' (of a joke or entertainment for example), I was wondering if you'd like that, too - or is that a separate thread?

Once I know where you're going, I'll do some digging in Welsh. Ok?


----------



## ThomasK

I'd focus on the literal meaning first but take the second meaning as a metaphoricall extension of the first and so mention it as well. [I started a thread on a much larger concept at Language Lab!]


----------



## Penyafort

In *Catalan *(with parallel forms in the other Romance languages), you find three possible translations, with different nuances:

1. *DOMESTICAR *(adjective _domèstic _+ infinitive ending -_ar_) = tame, in the sense of turning a wild animal into a domestic one, that is, one that can stay at home, nearby men.​​2. *DOMAR *(or variant *DOMTAR*) (from Latin DOMARE and DOMITARE, from the same root as the one before, DOM-us "house") = tame, in the sense of making a wild animal lose its ferocity.​​3. *AMANSIR *(or variant *AMANSAR*) [from adjective _mans, mansuet _'docile, tame' plus verbal affixes, from Latin MANSUS, MANSUETUS, from verb MANSUESCO "to tame", formed on manus + suesco "get accustomed to (man's) hand") = to tame, but also to calm, to soothe, to subdue...​


----------



## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> How would you translate "*(a) tame (animal)*"  and "*to tame (an animal)*"?


In Russian:
1. adj. ручной (ruchnóy, lit. ~"hand(y)", from n. рука "ruká" - hand/arm);
2. v. perf. приручить (priruchít', lit. ~"to to-hand").


ThomasK said:


> A small extra: can you use it metaphorically? Like in "*too tame a party*"?


At least not like in English, no.


----------



## ThomasK

Perfect! Reminds me of French: _domestiquer, dompter (dompteur_, animal trainer/…), _apprivoisier, _I guess…

@Awwal12 : do you have a synonym of "tame" that could be used and which might also apply to sheep for example, as they seem to be group animals and very submissive, at least for us...


----------



## apmoy70

Greek:

(A) *«Εξημερώνω»* [e.k͡si.meˈɾɔ.nɔ] --> _to tame, domesticate, civilise_ < Classical v. *«ἐξημερόω/ἐξημερῶ» ĕksēmĕróō* (uncontracted)/*ĕksēmĕrô* (contracted) --> _to tame, civilise, cultivate_ < Classical preposition & prefix *«ἐκ» ĕk* which before a vowel becomes *«ἐξ» ĕks* + Classical adj. *«ἥμερος» hḗmĕrŏs* --> _tamed, civilised, cultivated_ (of unclear etymology, possibly related to Skt. यमति (yamati), _to restrain_).
Used when turning a wild animal into a domesticated one.

(B) *«Δαμάζω»* [ðaˈma.zɔ] --> _to tame, break, restrict, master_ < Classical v. *«δαμάζω» dămázō* & *«δαμαλίζω» dămălízō* --> _to tame_ < denominative from *«δαμάλης» dămálēs* (masc.) --> _tamer_ (PIE *demh₂- _to tame_ cf Skt. दाम्यति (dā́myati), _to tame_, Lat. domare, Proto-Germanic *tamaz > Eng. tame, D. tam).
Used when taming wild horses (and...women )

(C) *«Τιθασεύω»* [ti.θaˈse.vɔ] --> _to tame, domesticate, bridle_ < Classical v. *«τιθασεύω» tĭtʰăseú̯ō* (idem) < denominative from *«τιθασός» tĭtʰasós* (masc.) --> _tamed, domestic, cultivated, mild_ (possibly Pre-Greek).
Used when subduing wild animals (or inner passions).


----------



## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> do you have a synonym of "tame" that could be used and which might also apply to sheep for example, as they seem to be group animals and very submissive, at least for us...


Well, there's adj. кроткий (krótkiy) "meek", although, obviously, it isn't a full analogue in modern Russian. However, its etymon used to mean exactly "tame" in Proto-Slavic, and it's still reflected in the words like v. укрощать (ukroschát') - "to tame and train (dangerous wild beasts)".


----------



## ThomasK

OK. But are you suggesting that укрощать is no longer in use, as opposed to ручной? I guess the former refer to training animals rather than just taming them...


----------



## ThomasK

apmoy70 said:


> Greek:
> 
> (A) *«Εξημερώνω»* [e.k͡si.meˈɾɔ.nɔ] --> _to tame, domesticate, civilise_ < Classical v. *«ἐξημερόω/ἐξημερῶ» ĕksēmĕróō* (uncontracted)/*ĕksēmĕrô* (contracted) --> _to tame, civilise, cultivate_ < Classical preposition & prefix *«ἐκ» ĕk* which before a vowel becomes *«ἐξ» ĕks* + Classical adj. *«ἥμερος» hḗmĕrŏs* --> _tamed, civilised, cultivated_ (of unclear etymology, possibly related to Skt. यमति (yamati), _to restrain_).
> Used when turning a wild animal into a domesticated one.
> 
> (B) *«Δαμάζω»* [ðaˈma.zɔ] --> _to tame, break, restrict, master_ < Classical v. *«δαμάζω» dămázō* & *«δαμαλίζω» dămălízō* --> _to tame_ < denominative from *«δαμάλης» dămálēs* (masc.) --> _tamer_ (PIE *demh₂- _to tame_ cf Skt. दाम्यति (dā́myati), _to tame_, Lat. domare, Proto-Germanic *tamaz > Eng. tame, D. tam). Used when taming wild horses (and...women )
> 
> (C) *«Τιθασεύω»* [ti.θaˈse.vɔ] --> _to tame, domesticate, bridle_ < Classical v. *«τιθασεύω» tĭtʰăseú̯ō* (idem) < denominative from *«τιθασός» tĭtʰasós* (masc.) --> _tamed, domestic, cultivated, mild_ (possibly Pre-Greek).
> Used when subduing wild animals (or inner passions).


 Are they interchangeable, Apmoy? I guess there are slight differences, nuances: in (B) and (C) control might be the most important feature, whereas "civil-isation" seems to be the keypoint. 

It reminds me of Awwal's reference to two verbs of taming: taming like in a circus seems different from the "classical" (?) domestication. It seems like a level higher than just taming them: one seems to push them into doing things they would never do spontaneously. [Not sure whether this is the right way to formulate it]


----------



## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> OK. But are you suggesting that укрощать is no longer in use, as opposed to ручной?


Укрощать is perfectly in use, it's just different from приручать. The latter is a generic word for taming animals. The former is a very particular kind of taming.
And while ручной means "tame", кроткий doesn't (not in modern Russian anyway).


----------



## ThomasK

I have come to realize that taming for a circus for example is very specific indeed. We have not have a specific word, but the French dompteur (animal trainer) is a dierentemmer (lit. animal tamer)...


----------



## Penyafort

ThomasK said:


> I have come to realize that taming for a circus for example is very specific indeed. We have not have a specific word, but the French dompteur (animal trainer) is a dierentemmer (lit. animal tamer)...



Exactly. In French and other Romance languages.

We use derived terms from DOMARE / DOMITARE for that taming of lions and tigers, but also for the tame of horses. It's a training not intended to live with it at/near home, but for a particular purpose.

There can even be a metaphorical sense of it. The translation of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew, in which the shrew is a woman, tends to be translated into several Romance lanugages by using DOMARE.

However, DOMESTICARE would be used for the historical turning of wolves into dogs, for example, or the modern turning of other animals, usually of a smaller size, into either pets or animals which live at home or in your garden.


----------



## ThomasK

Shakespeare: good link. We would use "temmen" but it is not common in my view as such...

I can imagine the use of _domesticare _and _domare _with animals, but not with people  basically...

There is one we have not mentioned yet: *(animal) husbandry. *But I am in doubt: isn't it only the management of animals (at a farm), not the domestication as such? Etymology (etymonline.com): 'c. 1300, "*management of a household;"* late 14c. as "farm management;" from husband (n.)' BUT "in a now-obsolete sense of "peasant farmer" (early 13c.) + -_ery"... I_sn't taming the first phase of the process (getting control over the animal) and domestication is the further evolution: man using the control over the animal to "exploit" it economically?


----------



## Armas

Finnish:
*kesy* "tame"
*kesyttää* "to tame"
They are used metaphorically quite similarly as the English words I think.


----------



## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Are they interchangeable, Apmoy? I guess there are slight differences, nuances: in (B) and (C) control might be the most important feature, whereas "civil-isation" seems to be the keypoint.
> 
> It reminds me of Awwal's reference to two verbs of taming: taming like in a circus seems different from the "classical" (?) domestication. It seems like a level higher than just taming them: one seems to push them into doing things they would never do spontaneously. [Not sure whether this is the right way to formulate it]


They're not used interchangeably they do express different things. For circus, B is used, the circus tamer is *«θηριοδαμαστής/-δαμάστρια»* [θi.ɾi.ɔ.ða.maˈstis] (masc.)/[θi.ɾi.ɔ.ðaˈma.stri.a] (fem.) from *«θηρίο»* [θiˈɾi.ɔ] (neut.) < *«θηρίον» tʰēríŏn* + v. *«δαμάζω»* (see my previous post)


----------



## ThomasK

I see, thanks!


----------



## nimak

*Macedonian*:

(a) tame (animal)
*питом*/*-a*/*-o*/*-и* (pitom/-a/-o/-i) _adj. m./f./neut./pl._​*спитомен*/*-a*/*-o*/*-и* (spitomen/-a/-o/-i) _adj. m./f./neut./pl._​
to tame (an animal)
*питоми* (pítomi) _v. 3rdp.s._​*спитомува* (spitómuva) _v. 3rdp.s._​
Metaphorically used for a person, as an adjective (*питом*/*-a*/*-o*/*-и*), it means: _"meek", "nice", "friendly"_...


----------



## ThomasK

Just one brief question: how broadly can use use the words? Can you use them metaphorically. In Dutch for example we do not use the verb metaphorically except in combination with -_able_: _ontembaar_, un-tame-able, and the adj. _tam_, as too tame [+/-) pers.], without a soul, without a will …


----------



## Nizo

In Esperanto:

*malsovaĝigi *_(mal- _opposite of + _sovaĝ-_ wild + _-igi_ suffix creating a transitive verb) is one way to say "to tame," as in "to tame an animal." You can use the adjective *malsovaĝa* to describe an animal that is not wild.

However, as in some other languages, there is another word *dresi*_, _which is usually used for _to tame,_ as in *Li dresas leonojn. Li estas leondresisto* (_He tames lions. He is a lion tamer._). In the _Plena Ilustrita Vortaro,_ *dresisto* is defined as a person who professionally tames/trains animals. It can be used for wild animals such as lions and bears, or for domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, and horses. An animal tamed or trained this way would be referred to as *dresita *(*dresita urso * _a tamed/trained bear_).

Neither of these words would be used in the figurative sense you asked about, such as to tame a party. That would probably be a verb like *subpremi *_(to suppress)._ However, I did see _*dresita lakeo *_(_a trained footman/lackey_) used once.


----------



## ThomasK

I recognize this funny (in my eyes) "game" with the semantic negatives turning into positives "'negativised" by means of a prefix (malsano, ...). I do not really like it, but OK, that is very personal.


----------



## nimak

ThomasK said:


> Just one brief question: how broadly can use use the words? Can you use them metaphorically. In Dutch for example we do not use the verb metaphorically except in combination with -_able_: _ontembaar_, un-tame-able, and the adj. _tam_, as too tame [+/-) pers.], without a soul, without a will …



Metaphorically, for a person only, like I said:


nimak said:


> Metaphorically used for a person, as an adjective (*питом*/*-a*/*-o*/*-и*), it means: _"meek", "nice", "friendly"_...



The verb can be used metaphorically too:
*да припитомиш некого* (da pripitomiš nekogo) = lit. "_to tame someone_"; to make someone _"meek", "nice", "friendly"_... or to "tame" someone who has "wild" character...


----------



## aureus232

In Dutch: 
een *tam *dier (a _tame _animal) 
een dier *temmen *(to _tame _an animal)


----------



## ThomasK

aureus232 said:


> In Dutch:
> een *tam *dier (a _tame _animal)
> een dier *temmen *(to _tame _an animal)


Had I forgotten my own Dutch version??? Maybe I could add that it can also be used metaphorically but that is not too common: "*een tamme tijd*" (De Tijd), lit. "a tame time". However, the behaviour of tamed animals is described as "*mak*": people can behave as _makke schape_n [Tame sheep, ...], Donald T is once described as "tamme Trump" at the VRT, suggesting these animals or people lack energy, critical sense, etc. ,


----------



## AutumnOwl

Swedish:
Tam - tame, for example tamdjur - tame/domesticated animals
(Att) tämja - (to) tame, for example tämja en hund - to tame a dog

Both tam and tämja can be used figuratively :
En tam fest - a tame party; ett tamt tal - a tame speach (tame meaning not lively, uninspiring, boring)
Tämja ett vattenfall - tame a water fall; tämja håret - tame the hair.
(Inte) tämja unga tjejer - (not) tame young women; to make them polite and not taking space; the last one from a young female skier who got criticized because she wanted to win, and not being "the typical girl and not get angry if loosing" Efter bråket: ”Hade inte fått det om jag var grabb”


----------

