# ماذا يستفيد الإنسان حتى من بخلِهِ على نفسه؟



## chaalbaz

Hi, could someone tell me the meaning of ماذا يستفيد الإنسان حتى من بخلِهِ على نفسه؟
I don't understand how you can have two prepositions (harf jarr) in succession. It doesn't make any sense.


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## Ibn Nacer

It seems to me that حتى  is not a preposition...

I saw another version of this sentence with : ...من حتى بخله... It's weird...

Maybe the meaning (in french) of "حتى من" is "même de..."


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## chaalbaz

If it isn't a harf jarr, what is it?
I distinctly remember reading that حتى is a harf jarr, just like في and خلا.


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## Ibn Nacer

Yes you are right, it is not mentioned in الآجرومية but it is mentioned for example in ألفية ابن مالك.

I do not know why it is not mentioned in الآجرومية, maybe because the level of الآجرومية is lower than ألفية ابن مالك?

Or maybe because حتى  is not like مِنْ، إِلى، في ، عَلَى ... I mean  that مِنْ، إِلى، في ، عَلَى ... are always prepositions while حتى maybe several things :  حرف غاية ، حرف عطف، حرف ابتدائية...

See for example : #3 there is a passage in Arabic...
See also : http://drvaniya.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Q77-Hattaa-Meaning-Even.pdf


PS : it's ...من حتى بخله...  or ...حتى من بخلِهِ... ?


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## fdb

It might be helpful to point out that this is a quotation from the Bible (Matthew 16:26), in the English (KJV) version: "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? " The Arabic Smith-Van Dyke version has:
 لانه ماذا ينتفع الانسان لو ربح العالم كله وخسر نفسه. .


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## chaalbaz

Thanks. I still don't get how you can have two prepositions in succession though.


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## Ibn Nacer

What are these two prepositions of which you speak ? I would like to be sure...

Once again : 


Ibn Nacer said:


> I saw another version of this sentence with : ...من حتى بخله... It's weird...





Ibn Nacer said:


> PS : it's ...من حتى بخله... or ...حتى من بخلِهِ... ?


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## chaalbaz

حتى and من


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## Ibn Nacer

Well, as already said حتى  is not always a preposition so perhaps in this sentence it is not a preposition ???

For example in the second link I gave there is an example where حتى  precedes a preposition...


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## Qureshpor

chaalbaz said:


> Hi, could someone tell me the meaning of ماذا يستفيد الإنسان حتى من بخلِهِ على نفسه؟
> I don't understand how you can have two prepositions (harf jarr) in succession. It doesn't make any sense.


The correct quote, I believe is...

_ماذا يستفيد الإنسان_ من البخل حتى _بخله على نفسه_


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## Rose_20

Ibn Nacer said:


> It seems to me that حتى  is not a preposition...
> 
> I saw another version of this sentence with : ...من حتى بخله... It's weird...
> 
> Maybe the meaning (in french) of "حتى من" is "même de..."


It is not weird.
حتى in this case means أيضا
in English means "even"
let me explain more,
this sentence has some information before and the person who asked this question is wondering about something then he/she added more inquire about his stinginess
So, it goes like this in English
What is the benefit from (something) and what is the benefit of tighten money even on himself?
Hopefully that make sense.


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## fdb

Rose_20 said:


> So, it goes like this in English
> What is the benefit from (something) and what is the benefit of tighten money even on himself?
> Hopefully that make sense.


No, it makes no sense at all.


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## fdb

rarabara said:


> _"  what does the human (m.singular) benefit until his stinginess on/over his personality?"_


This is not English either.


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## rarabara

fdb said:


> This is not English either.


I can see the oddness in the translation but saw no way really to translate it in anyway.


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## fdb

rarabara said:


> I can see the oddness in the translation but saw no way really to translate it in anyway.


Did you look at no. 5?


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## rarabara

fdb said:


> Did you look at no. 5?


 
I looked but..

  ذلك سايصير افضل  إن انا اذهب هنا ,لانني لغتي عربي ضعيفا أن لترجم تلك جملة


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## analeeh

I'm not sure fdb is right. Googling this suggests it's from 'the collected works of Mustafa Lutfi al Manfaluti', and the meaning is also different from the relevant Bible quote.

I think Rose20 had understood the meaning but perhaps not given very good English. I would say:

_What does a person gain from not spending money even on himself? _

And I also understood it as 'even'.


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## Rose_20

analeeh said:


> I'm not sure fdb is right. Googling this suggests it's from 'the collected works of Mustafa Lutfi al Manfaluti', and the meaning is also different from the relevant Bible quote.
> 
> I think Rose20 had understood the meaning but perhaps not given very good English. I would say:
> 
> _What does a person gain from not spending money even on himself? _
> 
> And I also understood it as 'even'.


Yes, this is what I mean! Thanks so much for your help for rewriting what I want to say! 
I am a native Arabic speaker, so, I understood the sentence but I could not provide good translation in English.


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## Mahaodeh

chaalbaz said:


> If it isn't a harf jarr, what is it?
> I distinctly remember reading that حتى is a harf jarr, just like في and خلا.


There are at least six different cases of حتى, only in one is it حرف جر.



chaalbaz said:


> ماذا يستفيد الإنسان حتى من بخلِهِ على نفسه؟


This sentence is grammatically correct. حتى here is not حرف جرّ. It is زائدة للتوكيد and it means something like the English “even” in this context. As it’s زائدة, you can remove it without changing the meaning except for loosing the emphasis: ماذا يستفيد الإنسان من بخله على نفسه. 



fdb said:


> لانه ماذا ينتفع الانسان لو ربح العالم كله وخسر نفسه


I’m not sure this is grammatically correct though, but it’s not the sentence in question 🙂.


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## Rose_20

Wow, I like your explanation. Sounds like you’re native Arabic speaker and specialized in the language itself. Your explanation is an add to me. Thanks so much.


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