# tunc etiam pecori despiciendus eram’



## Lamb67

‘Haec loca desertas vidi sine moenibus herbas; 
pascebat sparsas utraque ripa boves. 
et quem nunc gentes Tiberim noruntque timentque, 
tunc etiam pecori despiciendus eram’

Above is a quotation of the deity of Tiber River.

While I would interpret the dative _pecori _as a contruction of passive gerundive, thus: _then still I ought to be looked down upon by the flock of oxes, _another Latin learner interpreted it as dative _pecori_ locative, thus, _then still I ought be looked down upon by others in a flock of oxes.

_IF_ I_ means a deity rather than a human being, then would it possible he could be despised by an ox as well?
Can I have your opinions please?

Thanks.


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## Scholiast

Heus!

Who is teaching you Latin?

But - in fairness - the gerund and gerundive usages, so alien to modern languages (except partly German) are very hard.

Basics, then:
_fugiendum est = _"It is necessary to escape"_
fugiendum_ *nobis* [Dative] _est_ = "It is necessary *for us* to escape"/"We must escape"
_
Caesar timendus est_ = "Caesar is to be feared/must be feared"/"It is necessary to fear Caesar"
_Caesar *nobis* timendus est_ = "Caesar is *for us* to be feared"/"It is necessary *for us* to fear Caesar"/*We *must fear Caesar"

In your specific example:

et quem nunc gentes Tiberim noruntque timentque, 
tunc etiam pecori despiciendus eram’

The sense is, "I, the Tiber (river of Rome), whom nowadays the peoples have come to know and fear
In those days was an object of contempt, even from mere cattle"

In other words: "in ancient times, even animals did not know or fear me - even the beasts regarded me with contempt. But now the people [gentes] have learned about me and suitably dread me".

There is a strong rhetorical punch here between _nunc_ and _tunc_.

And literally, this last line means:

"And even [_etiam_] in those days [_tunc_] for the cattle [_pecori_] to-be-despised [_despiciendus_] I was [_eram_].

Ovid's pentameter line here - I assume it is Ovid, though I have not looked it up - is typically artful and crafty.

Do let me know sometime if you are actually studying Latin literature - I would be keen to know if such things are being taken on in modern Chinese Universities, or if this is purely a personal enthusiasm.


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## Lamb67

As far as I know, Latin studies is relatively a new craze in China, being very scattered among a few major universities in big cities.
I don't think even those students in the Chinese unis could have attained a high level as such.


Both the friend of mine and I are only studying on our own.

Thanks again for your nice explanantion.


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## XiaoRoel

> Contemplé estos lugares, desiertos prados, sin murallas;
> una y otra orilla dispersas vacas apacentaban.
> y el que ahora conocen y temen las gentes, Tíber,
> entonces, en cambio, era para el ganado cosa no temible.


Despiciendus en Virgilio es usado como adjetivo, 'no digno de atención, despreciable', y ese es, a mi entender, el valor que tiene aquí, un atributo del sujeto que es la oración de relativo del verso anterior.


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## Scholiast

Yes indeed, Xiao (#4), _despiciendus_ is being used here as an adjective tantamount to 'insignificant', 'mere', 'lowly'. But the cited line is in any case not Virgil. It must be Ovid.

Lamb67, any chance of giving us the exact citation?


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## CapnPrep

Scholiast said:


> Lamb67, any chance of giving us the exact citation?


_Fasti _V, 640ff.


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## XiaoRoel

> But the cited line is in any case not Virgil. It must be Ovid.


Cierto. Me refería a Virgilio por un cruce mental (estaba pensando en un sintagma virgiliano, pero no es esto lo fundamental (pertenecen a un sociolecto y época lingüistica comunes). Lo importante es el caracter adjetivo de _despiciendus_.


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