# نسب قبائلهم



## Huda

Would you please help translate the following underlined phrase.?

بل لقد مضى الإسلام في هذا السبيل إلى ماهو أبعد من تحرير الرقيق، فلم يتركهم في متاهة عالم الحرية الجديد دون عصبية وشوكة وانتماء، وإنما سعى إلى إدماجهم في القبائل والعشائر والعصبيات التي كانوا فيها أرقاء، فأكسبهم عزتها وشرفها ومكانتها ومنعتها وما لها من إمكانات، وبذلك أنجز إنجازًا عظيمًا – وراء وفوق التحرير – عندما أقام نسيجًا اجتماعيًّا جديدًا التحم فيه الأرقاء السابقون بالأحرار، فأصبح لهم نسب قبائلهم عن طريق «الولاء»، الذي قال عنه الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم: «الولاء لُحْمَةٌ كلُحْمَة النسب»(1). 
(1) رواه الدارمي.


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## إسكندراني

Tribal allegiances could now be viewed as a function of loyalty, as the prophet - PBUH - said what means: "Loyalty is a uniting entity just as cohesive as lineage".


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## Huda

إسكندراني said:


> Tribal allegiances could now be viewed as a function of loyalty, as the prophet - PBUH - said what means: "Loyalty is a uniting entity just as cohesive as lineage".


Thank you, but I think ولاء here means inheritance.


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## cherine

I don't think so ya Hoda. It's about the newly freed slaves becomes members of the tribe based on their loyalty rather than their birth. It's like when you chose to pertain to a group/country even though you are originally from another group or country.


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## Huda

cherine said:


> I don't think so ya Hoda. It's about the newly freed slaves becomes members of the tribe based on their loyalty rather than their birth. It's like when you chose to pertain to a group/country even though you are originally from another group or country.



I'm talking about the word ولاء. When the Prophet  said انما الولاء لمن اعتق he did not mean loyalty at all. I checked it in قاموس الالفاظ الاسلامية. Anyway my main question was about نسب قبائلهم


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## إسكندراني

لأعقب على نفسي
was now viewed للحصر 
could now be viewed لطرح الإمكانية


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## Huda

إسكندراني said:


> لأعقب على نفسي
> was now viewed للحصر
> could now be viewed لطرح الإمكانية


What do you mean?


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## abdulwahid

Huda said:


> Would you please help translate the following underlined phrase.?
> 
> بل لقد مضى الإسلام في هذا السبيل إلى ماهو أبعد من تحرير الرقيق، فلم يتركهم في متاهة عالم الحرية الجديد دون عصبية وشوكة وانتماء، وإنما سعى إلى إدماجهم في القبائل والعشائر والعصبيات التي كانوا فيها أرقاء، فأكسبهم عزتها وشرفها ومكانتها ومنعتها وما لها من إمكانات، وبذلك أنجز إنجازًا عظيمًا – وراء وفوق التحرير – عندما أقام نسيجًا اجتماعيًّا جديدًا التحم فيه الأرقاء السابقون بالأحرار، فأصبح لهم نسب قبائلهم عن طريق «الولاء»، الذي قال عنه الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم: «الولاء لُحْمَةٌ كلُحْمَة النسب»(1).
> (1) رواه الدارمي.



I'm not sure how to put this into good English, but here is the meaning: "They (the freed slaves) attained a relation to the tribe of the ones who emancipated them." i.e. the slaves became a member of the tribe that their emancipator belonged to throug al-wala.

As for wala it means:
لغة هي القرابة والنصرة ، أيضا هي التتابع . واصطلاحا  ولاء العتق  هي الصلة الحاصلة بين المولى والعبد المحرر بسبب تحرير المولى له ، وبسبب  هذا الولاء يصبح المولى من ورثة العبد المحرر إذا مات ولم يكن له ورثه غيره 
So it's a kind of relation that originates when a person frees a slave, and as you can see from your qoute and the hadith it entails bonds that are like family bonds, and from "my" quote you can see that it also entails some inherital rights.


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## cherine

Huda said:


> I'm talking about the word ولاء. When the Prophet said انما الولاء لمن اعتق he did not mean loyalty at all. I checked it in قاموس الالفاظ الاسلامية.


Does the dictionary say that الولاء means inheritance?


> Anyway my main question was about نسب قبائلهم


I suggested "they become members of the tribe. And it seems Abdulwahid agrees with my understanding, though he expressed it with different words.

You can rephrase that the way you prefer.


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## إسكندراني

Tribal allegiance was now viewed as a function of inheritance/loyalty للحصر أي النسب فقط عن طريق الولاء 
Tribal allegiance could now be viewed as a function of inheritance/loyalty لطرح الإمكانية أن يكون النسب عن طريق الولاء مع السماح لأن يكون عبر طرق أخرى


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## Huda

cherine said:


> Does the dictionary say that الولاء means inheritance?


the dictionary says that ولاء is " a peculiar relationship voluntarily  established, which confers a right of inheritance on one or both parties  connected. I think we can't add this long definition after having mentioned that "they became members of ..." I believe this will be redundancy. What do you think?


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## cherine

I agree we can't have the long sentence, but somehow I focused more on the first part "a peculiar relationship voluntarily established".

But I guess you've recived good translations now.


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## Huda

Thank you all.


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## Huda

How about this one:
Freed slaves took up their place within the lineage of the tribe of the ones who manumitted them, i.e. they became members of the tribe that their manumitters belonged to through establishing a relationship which confers the right of inheritance on one or both parties. 

http://bnc.bl.uk/saraWeb.php?qy=lineage&mysubmit=Go


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## إسكندراني

What on earth is manumitting?!


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## Huda

إسكندراني said:


> What on earth is manumitting?!


a synonym of emancipating


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## إسكندراني

Ah, emancipating is much better


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