# I tried to not think/not to think



## basicamenteyo

Estoy un poco confundida porque he visto esta frase escrita de las dos formas,y quería saber cuál es la correcta:

I tried to not think about anything
I tried not to think about anything


can you please help me?? thank  you very much.


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## Forero

Las dos son correctas. La segunda suena más abstracta, y la primera parece más difícil de hacer:

_I tried to not think about anything._
Me esforcé a no pensar de nada.

_I tried not to think about anything._
Intenté no pensar de nada.


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## basicamenteyo

Forero said:


> Las dos son correctas. La segunda suena más abstracta, y la primera parece más difícil de hacer:
> 
> _I tried to not think about anything._
> Me esforcé a no pensar de nada.
> 
> _I tried not to think about anything._
> Intenté no pensar de nada.


 
Aw,muchas gracias!!!!!!!


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## donbill

basicamenteyo said:


> Estoy un poco confundida porque he visto esta frase escrita de las dos formas,y quería saber cuál es la correcta:
> 
> I tried to not think about anything
> I tried not to think about anything
> 
> 
> can you please help me?? thank  you very much.



 En mi opinión, es más común y preferible la segunda, _"I tried not to think about anything."_ Normalmente "not" precede al infinitive:_ not to think, not to learn, not to study_, etc. Espera otras explicaciones y ejemplos.


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## basicamenteyo

donbill said:


> En mi opinión, es más común y preferible la segunda, _"I tried not to think about anything."_ Normalmente "not" precede al infinitive:_ not to think, not to learn, not to study_, etc. Espera otras explicaciones y ejemplos.


 

vale,muchas gracias... normalmente siempre lo había visto así,pero una chica canadiense (de la zona angloparlante) suele utilizar la otra forma,y me tenía algo desorientada.

 Es increíble la rapidez con la que contestáis en este foro... muchas gracias a todos.


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## blasita

Yo no soy nadie para dar mi opinión aquí, pero basándome en lo estudiado y oído, desde luego mi voto va para... _not + infinitive with ´to´_. Y siento no ser tan espabilada como basicamenteyo, pero creo que yo (y quizás algún otra persona que lea este hilo) necesite alguna que otra pequeña aclaración.

Lo único que he encontrado es otro hilo sobre _to not go/not to go_, y no me aclara mucho: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&source=www.google.es.

Forero (sorry ), could you please explain this: 





> I tried to not think about anything. Me esforcé a no pensar de nada.I tried not to think about anything. Intenté no pensar de nada.



No veo la diferencia entre esforzarse en no pensar en nada e intentar no pensar en nada en la versión inglesa. ¿Podrías/podría alguien explicarlo/dar algún ejemplo más, por favor?

Thank you.


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## donbill

blasita said:


> Yo no soy nadie para dar mi opinión aquí, pero basándome en lo estudiado y oído, desde luego mi voto va para... _not + infinitive with ´to´_. Y siento no ser tan espabilada como basicamenteyo, pero creo que yo (y quizás algún otra persona que lea este hilo) necesite alguna que otra pequeña aclaración.
> 
> Lo único que he encontrado es otro hilo sobre _to not go/not to go_, y no me aclara mucho: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&source=www.google.es.
> 
> Forero (sorry ), could you please explain this:
> 
> No veo la diferencia entre esforzarse en no pensar en nada e intentar no pensar en nada en la versión inglesa. ¿Podrías/podría alguien explicarlo/dar algún ejemplo más, por favor?
> 
> Thank you.



_I tried not to think about it._

Si lo analizamos excesivamente, creo que tiene dos significados. Es posible, pero poco razonable, hacer negativo el verbo "tried".

a.  I tried not to think about it. No traté de pensar en ello. No hice ningún esfuerzo.

Es posible, y mucho más razonable, hacer negativo el infinitivo.

b.  I tried not to think about it.

Hice un esfuerzo por no pensar en ello; traté de no pensar en ello.

c.  I tried to not think about it. (Es como 'b', pero no me gusta el orden de palabras.)

Traté de no pensar en ello / Hice un esfuerzo por no pensar en ello.

Confieso que todo esto me ha dado un dolor de cabeza, y no estoy seguro de nada que acabo de escribir. 

Saludos


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## blasita

> a. I tried not to think about it. No traté de pensar en ello. No hice ningún esfuerzo.
> Es posible, y mucho más razonable, hacer negativo el infinitivo.
> b. I tried not to think about it.
> Hice un esfuerzo por no pensar en ello; traté de no pensar en ello.
> c. I tried to not think about it. (Es como 'b', pero no me gusta el orden de palabras.)
> Traté de no pensar en ello / Hice un esfuerzo por no pensar en ello.
> 
> Confieso que todo esto me ha dado un dolor de cabeza, y no estoy seguro de nada que acabo de escribir.



Y yo de corazón agradezco el esfuerzo.  Todo lo que escribes me vale y es muy valioso para los demás. Very useful examples, thank you very much.

Un saludo.


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## Forero

Sí, _tried not_ puede decir que "I didn't try", pero es raro. La diferencia que veo no tiene nada que ver con "no traté".

Son casi iguales, pero veo una pequeña diferencia entre estas tres:

(1) _I tried not thinking.
_(2) _I tried not to think.
_(3) _I tried to not think.
_
En la frase número 1, lo que intentaba fue "no pensar". En la 3, fue "hacer que yo no piense". ¿Tiene sentido?

La 2 me cae entre la 1 y la 3, más abstracta que la última, quizás más activa que la primera.


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## blasita

> Son casi iguales, pero veo una pequeña diferencia entre estas tres:
> (1) I tried not thinking.
> (2) I tried not to think.
> (3) I tried to not think.
> En la frase número 1, lo que intentaba fue "no pensar". En la 3, fue "hacer que yo no piense". ¿Tiene sentido?



Muchas gracias por tu respuesta, Forero.

Lo de la (1) no es infinitivo y lo veo claro (creo). Es un ejemplo útil al compararla, como haces, con la (3).  Si lo he entendido bien, creo que quieres decir en la (3): _Intenté hacer por no pensar_ (?). Aunque yo desde luego no soy nada buena traduciendo.

Anyway, I wonder if this is just about the verb ´try´ or it works the same way with other verbs. Sorry again, but the difference between _not+to+inf/to+not+inf_ is quite tough for me to get (maybe because either/both: 1) I was pretty sure that _to+not+inf _was incorrect; 2) I´m stupid).

Thank you very much, donbill and Forero.


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## blasita

_*Splitting infinitives with negations remains an area of contention*:
I want to not see you anymore.
I soon learned to not provoke her.
Even those who are generally tolerant of split infinitives may draw the line at these.This appears to be because the traditional idiom, placing the negation before the marker (I soon learned not to provoke her) or with verbs of desire, negating the finite verb (I don't want to see you anymore) remains easy and natural, and is still overwhelmingly the more common construction. Some argue that the two forms have different meanings, while others see a grammatical difference._ (Wikipedia: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=3&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&source=www.google.es).

No da la solución mágica que esperamos, pero he creído que el enlace podría ser bastante interesante en este caso.

Saludos, and sorry to be a pain.


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## Forero

blasita said:


> Muchas gracias por tu respuesta, Forero.
> 
> Lo de la (1) no es infinitivo y lo veo claro (creo). Es un ejemplo útil al compararla, como haces, con la (3).  Si lo he entendido bien, creo que quieres decir en la (3): _Intenté hacer por no pensar_ (?). Aunque yo desde luego no soy nada buena traduciendo.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder if this is just about the verb ´try´ or it works the same way with other verbs. Sorry again, but the difference between _not+to+inf/to+not+inf_ is quite tough for me to get (maybe because either/both: 1) I was pretty sure that _to+not+inf _was incorrect; 2) I´m stupid).
> 
> Thank you very much, donbill and Forero.


_To_+_not_+inf. no es incorrecto, pero aveces crea problemas.

It is not just about _try_ or _think_:

(4) _I tried to not worry so much now that I had my license.
_(5) _Can you get him to not be so selfish about everything?_
(6) _To be or not to be, that is the question.

_Para mí, la frase 4 me suena más fluida con "to not worry" que con "not to worry", y la 5 me sonaría muy extraña con "not to be". Sin embargo, la 6 me sonaría fatal con "to not be".

No eres estúpida. Creo que no me explico bien. _To not_ es difícil de explicar, y aún más difícil de traducir.


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## Thomas1

I think that you will be on the safe side if you use 'not to', that's what I was also taught. 
Here is a link to a book with a comment on 'to not' (example 22).

PS: I've just seen Forero's post.


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## blasita

> (4) I tried to not worry so much now that I had my license.
> (5) Can you get him to not be so selfish about everything?
> (6) To be or not to be, that is the question.


 Sorry, but as a non-native speaker, they ´sound´ the same to me with the two different structures (well, except (6) for obvious reasons ). But I think I understand that there may be more emphasis on the word that goes directly after the ´not´; e.g. (4) _not to worry_ vs _to not worry_. But I´d probably be talking nonsense.



> Creo que no me explico bien. To not es difícil de explicar, y aún más difícil de traducir.


 Muy fácil, como que muy fácil, no es, no. Te agradezco un montón tu ayuda.   Para mí es muy interesante todo esto porque me gusta conocer todos los entresijos de los idiomas, y sobre todo lo que se dice en realidad.



> I think that you will be on the safe side if you use 'not to', that's what I was also taught. Here is a link to a book with a comment on 'to not' (example 22).


 Thank you for the link, Thomas , how can you guys find such useful info so quickly?

Un saludo y gracias.


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## Forero

If you don't mind, I'll try one more way to express the very subtle difference:
_
Not to think_ is a lack of thinking (a state), but _to not think_ is more like actually doing something (an action). "I tried not to think about anything" says I tried going without thinking (quedarme sin pensar), but "I tried to not think about anything" says I tried to actively make myself thoughtless (hacerme sin pensamiento).

_Not to be_ fits well when the meaning is something like "not to exist", "to be nonexistent" (a state), but _to not be_ fits better when the meaning is to behave better (an action).


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## k-in-sc

"Tried not to think" and "tried to not think" mean exactly the same thing, but the first is acceptable in both speech and writing. The second is only colloquial, and sounds awkward, as if the person had not thought out what they were going to say.


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## Forero

k-in-sc said:


> "Tried not to think" and "tried to not think" mean exactly the same thing, but the first is acceptable in both speech and writing. The second is only colloquial, and sounds awkward, as if the person had not thought out what they were going to say.


I find both acceptable in writing, though I would avoid "to not think" in speech or writing of the highest formality. I do see a difference, which I have tried to explain.

Which sounds more awkward depends on the context.


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## k-in-sc

Sorry, in actual usage I don't think there's any difference at all in meaning. "Tried to not think"  is always more awkward than "tried not to think."


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## duvija

Cada vez que hablamos de 'negación' me voy a lo familiar.

Aquí hay una muestra de Larry Horn aunque no es la más apropiada. Al menos lean los ejemplos (no se metan con la teoría) y van a ver eso de que cuanto más cerca de la palabra está la negación, más fuerte es.
Al menos vean lo de Russell, Grice y Horn.

Acá está el resumen de wiki.

Esto es lo más adecuado a nuestro tema. Hasta discuten I didn't think vs. I think not ...

(Muchos de esos monstruos que aparecen en las discusiones, fueron mis advisors de tesis).


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## blasita

> If you don't mind, I'll try one more way to express the very subtle difference:
> Not to think is a lack of thinking (a state), but to not think is more like actually doing something (an action). "I tried not to think about anything" says I tried going without thinking (quedarme sin pensar), but "I tried to not think about anything" says I tried to actively make myself thoughtless (hacerme sin pensamiento).
> Not to be fits well when the meaning is something like "not to exist", "to be nonexistent" (a state), but to not be fits better when the meaning is to behave better (an action).


Now, it´s crystal clear, thank you very much, Forero. Your explanation is so good that sure it´s worth your effort (sure I´ve given you a headache too).

Thanks, k-in-sc, for your contribution; very useful to see there isn´t a rule about this and that speakers may understand it differently.



> Aquí hay una muestra de Larry Horn aunque no es la más apropiada. Al menos lean los ejemplos (no se metan con la teoría) y van a ver eso de que cuanto más cerca de la palabra está la negación, más fuerte es. *¡Pues lo había entendido casi bien!*
> Al menos vean lo de Russell, Grice y Horn.
> Acá está el resumen de wiki.
> Esto es lo más adecuado a nuestro tema. Hasta discuten I didn't think vs. I think not ...


Eres genial, duvija. Lo de las teorías creo que va a ser demasiado para mí ahora; el inglés no es mi fuerte (como es obvio), pero creo que leeré el libro en cuanto tenga algo de tiempo porque seguro que es muy interesante, gracias.

This was a very interesting thread for me and really hope that for many others.  Thanks everyone .  Un saludo.


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## Kcris

Forero said:


> If you don't mind, I'll try one more way to express the very subtle difference:
> _
> Not to think_ is a lack of thinking (a state), but _to not think_ is more like actually doing something (an action). "I tried not to think about anything" says I tried going without thinking (quedarme sin pensar), but "I tried to not think about anything" says I tried to actively make myself thoughtless (hacerme sin pensamiento).
> 
> _Not to be_ fits well when the meaning is something like "not to exist", "to be nonexistent" (a state), but _to not be_ fits better when the meaning is to behave better (an action).


Much _more _better! 
I grasp it tight now. Thanks!




k-in-sc said:


> "Tried not to think" and "tried to not think" mean exactly the same thing, but the first is acceptable in both speech and writing. The second is only colloquial, and sounds awkward, as if the person had not thought out what they were going to say.


Accordingly to Thomas1's link, it's not ungrammatical at least. Maybe not widely accepted, but still OK.
Am I wrong, Forero?


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## k-in-sc

There's no difference in meaning and no reason ever to say "tried to not." If you're trying to convey some subtle difference in meaning by saying it that way, no one's going to get it. They're just going to think you're not very articulate


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## Forero

Kcris said:


> Accordingly to Thomas1's link, it's not ungrammatical at least. Maybe not widely accepted, but still OK.
> Am I wrong, Forero?


It is widely, but not universally, accepted.

Personally, I find it grammatical, and even preferable in some cases, but others continue to call it wrong.

This structure has been in use for many more centuries than not, but a few centuries ago it apparently created pedagogical problems for the teaching of Latin. So for the last few centuries, it has been rather controversial. Authors, playwrights, and scholars use it, and linguists study it, but it can still ruffle feathers in some circles.

Anything difficult to explain in Latin grammatical terms tends to be controversial this way, including such particularly English constructions as "This is me swimming in Lake Michigan", "That is not the book I wanted to be read to from", "In giving it is that we receive", and "It seems the woman, who police asked not be identified, is a concert pianist."

These are the kinds of things that keep this forum busy.


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## k-in-sc

I tend to lose patience with these "Well, but _can_ you say it that way?" discussions. "Tried to not" is like "estuvistes" in Spanish. Natives do say it, for better or worse. Non-natives should not say it.


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## donbill

k-in-sc said:


> I tend to lose patience with these "Well, but _can_ you say it that way?" discussions. "Tried to not" is like "estuvistes" in Spanish. Natives do say it, for better or worse. Non-natives should not say it.



k-in-sc,

I think you have infinite patience! If you didn't, you wouldn't keep contributing to this thread. (I suppose I have patience too; otherwise I wouldn't keep reading it!)

As someone who leans much more toward description than prescription, I say "Long live *to not + verb*!" I agree with 'forero' that at times it--and I'll use a double modal to show that I know my regional language well--*might could* convey a nuance that the more standard construction *might couldn't*. (I'll bet you you're gonna frown on that too!) I agree with you, however, that it isn't the kind of thing non natives should try to imitate because most of the time it sounds a bit awkward.

Saludos


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## k-in-sc

To me the only nuance is that "tried to not" sounds more off-the-cuff. And description is fine, but non-native English learners need prescription or they won't realize how they sound. If they just hear "well, some people say it that way," they don't get the message of "but don't you say it."
I say this because I know a lot of Spanish speakers who learn what we would consider extremely substandard English from their co-workers. It's kind of sad.


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## Forero

I insist that, unlike _might could_, _tried to not_ is standard English (used by people in all walks of life) most everywhere in the world. And to me it is not quite the same as _tried not to_. As far as being awkward, I think _tried not to_ is more likely to fit that description, but it depends.


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## k-in-sc

It's acceptable (but not great) in spoken English. It would be a poor choice in written English.


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## SevenDays

Some folks view this in terms of scope of negation. In _I tried not to think about it_, the negation applies to all that follows, whereas in _I tried to not think about it_, "not," strictly speaking, applies to "think," though it may be the kind of esoteric distinction interesting only to linguists. Yet, at times, "to not" appears to be the only choice, particularly when some sort of purpose is involved:
(A) _I tried dancing to not gain weight_.
(B) _I tried dancing not to gain weight_.
The purpose of (A) is clear: _not *gain weight*_ ~ to maintain my current weight.
The purpose of (B) is ambiguous: _not *to gain weight*_? As if the purpose were "to gain weight," and it is that purpose which is being negated. It sounds off. You could fix it with (C) _I tried dancing *so as* not to gain weight_. Now, (A) is identical to (C).
Of course, there may be other ways avoiding this construction to begin with:
(D)_ I tried dancing to avoid gaining weight_
(C) and (D) seem to be more natural, or perhaps more acceptable, than (A), which suggests that, when it comes to negation, there is a strong tendency_ to avoid splitting the infinitive._
It isn't without a bit of irony, if you are a descriptivist....

Cheers


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## Istriano

*To be or not to be*,  not
_To be or to not be._


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## k-in-sc

"I tried dancing to not gain weight" sounds spectacularly bad. Nice try, though 
I mean, yes, it could be and probably has been said. But just about any other way of saying it would be better.


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## Kcris

Forero said:


> ... Authors, playwrights, and scholars use it, and linguists  study it, but it can still ruffle feathers in some circles...


Haaa! (Sigh) That's all I needed to hear. So now I am aware I may find it at any time on any reputable book.



k-in-sc said:


> I tend to lose patience with these "Well, but _can_  you say it that way?" discussions. "Tried to not" is like "estuvistes"  in Spanish. Natives do say it, for better or worse. Non-natives should  not say it.


Yes, you're very right at this point. _Estuvistes _is a very illiterate and rough way (to my ears, of course) to _estuviste_ I would never recommend to say. But there's a subtle difference between _estuvistes _and _to not_: you will never _ever _find it on any newspaper, essay or book. I would just call it slang.


Thanks, folks! Both!


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## k-in-sc

Kcris said:


> Haaa! (Sigh) That's all I needed to hear. So now I am aware I may find it at any time on *in *any reputable book.


Better start looking now. I'll give you a nickel for every "tried to not."


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## Forero

I'll just give one example, from the Corpus of Contemporary American English.

_"I have to sell this house," she said. "As soon as the Oscars are over, I am  going to sell this house."  Turning off the light, she *tried* *to* *not* think of what she was waiting for. _A Touch of  Summer_ had picked up several Golden Globes— Best Actor, Best Director— and  the odds were good that it would receive its share of Oscar nominations,  including Best Actress and Best Original Screenplay.

_— from _Oscar Season_ by Mary McNamara

The COCA also has several examples from Newsweek and other magazines.


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> Better start looking now. I'll give you a nickel for every "tried to not."


 
You owe us big. This is the google result:

About 1,270,000 results (0.39 seconds)


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## k-in-sc

Key word "reputable." Key word "book." And not spoken by a character who's supposed to be uneducated, naive, flaky or otherwise inarticulate.  I owe Forero a nickel.

If you go to the end of the Google search (which is not limited to books), it turns out to be 157 results:
http://www.google.com/search?q="tri...nsfd&ei=H3ZHTe6vNs6s8AbA6IWJBw&start=170&sa=N


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## Kcris

Kcris said:


> Haaa! (Sigh) That's all I needed to hear. So now I am aware I *may *find it at any time on* in any reputable book.


And another key word. 

*= Lapsus teclae.


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## blasita

Just some coments:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cd=4&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&source=www.google.es 
Some foreros are trying to translate this sentence: _´If I have a goal in life, it´s to not be bored´_ in this thread. What strikes me as odd (now it´s becoming not so ´odd´though) is that they don´t question the grammar of *to not be*, so it´s clear that some of our foreros and some people do say it.

1) In my grammar books (sorry; they´re all mainly of British usage) the split infinitive here (and in general) is regarded as being wrong, or in some, just too informal.
2)A book _(Kazuo Kato - Not to be or to not be: More on Split Negative Infinitives ´American Speech´)_: http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/american_speech/v076/76.3kato.pdf. 
3)I have found quite a few quotations, e.g. from Steve Jobs (I´m not sure you, k-in-sc, will think of him as uneducated, naive, flaky or otherwise inarticulate; myself I´ve got no idea ).

Anyway taking into acccount the three above, my take on this would be that if it´s not grammatically accepted by all, it´s very likely to be in the future. And that it may be more commonly used among AmE speakers (but I´m not sure).

We could be going on and on about this, but look, my opinion (of course you may disagree on this) is that e.g. the RAE has been accepting new words and grammatical structures because languages are alive, and whether we like or not, what people say is what eventually goes into the reference books.

Sorry about my (for sure) mistakes, and the long post. Thank you so much for your contributions here.  Un saludo a todos y gracias.


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## jalo6335

Couldn´t the convoluted aspect of _I tried to not think_ be used to signify that the _not thinking_ requires more of an effort?


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## basicamenteyo

madre de dios la que he liado!!!!! XD

thank  you very much to all of you... you all are really kind....


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## blasita

> madre de dios la que he liado!!!!! XD
> 
> thank you very much to all of you... you all are really kind....



No te preocupes, basicamenteyo, que la que la ha liado soy YO. Siento que tú lo tenías claro ya, pero yo no.  Espero que de todas formas todo esto te haya servido tanto como a mí y estoy segura les servirá a muchísimos más que lo lean . Muy interesante, gracias. Un saludo.


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## basicamenteyo

blasita said:


> No te preocupes, basicamenteyo, que la que la ha liado soy YO. Siento que tú lo tenías claro ya, pero yo no. Espero que de todas formas todo esto te haya servido tanto como a mí y estoy segura les servirá a muchísimos más que lo lean . Muy interesante, gracias. Un saludo.


 

en realidad me ha liado mas XDDD pero no te preocupes,todo esto es sano. es complicado entender los entresijos de otro idioma si ni si quiera nosotros en españa nos ponemos de acuerdo con el español... el otro dia habia un hilo para discutir como se decia "cafe poco cargado" en españa. contestamos de varias regiones y cada uno dijo una cosa... asi que....


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## capitas

I'll give you my opinion, although I'm not a native English speaker. 
I think both structures mean the same:
I like to go/I like to not go, although the latter has a more emphasizing meaning.
Would you like to? When speaking, you use the full structure "like to"+verb. So if you want to point out the not you say "I want to:  GO"/ I want to: NOT GO.


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