# Spanish -ez



## francisgranada

Hello everybody!

What is the origin of the Spanish ending _-ez_ in words like e.g. _ vejez, rapidez, validez, etc _...?

Is it a "simple" omission of the final _-a _(i.e. insted of a former _rapideza _now we have _rapidez_) or there is some other explanation?
(for example a possible influence of Latin words ending in _-ix/-ex_)

The "problem" is that at the same time there is a plenty of Spanish nouns that maintain the ending -_eza _(_belleza, grandeza,_ ...). Plus, the feminine ending _-a_ seems to be quite stable in Romance languages, i.e. rather the masculine _-o _(< -um/-us) tends to disappear ...

Thanks in advance.


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## ahvalj

(1) "posiblemente a través del francés _-esse" — _-ez - Wikcionario

(2) "[f]rom spoken Latin _-itie,_ from Classical Latin _-itiem,_ accusative of _-ities._ (A variant of this was _-itia,_ see _-eza_). Compare Portuguese _-ice"_ — -ez - Wiktionary

For the Latin _-itiēs: _Latin Dictionary Headword Search Results


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## merquiades

ahvalj said:


> (1) "posiblemente a través del francés _-esse" — _-ez - Wikcionario
> 
> (2) "[f]rom spoken Latin _-itie,_ from Classical Latin _-itiem,_ accusative of _-ities._ (A variant of this was _-itia,_ see _-eza_). Compare Portuguese _-ice"_ — -ez - Wiktionary
> 
> For the Latin _-itiēs: _Latin Dictionary Headword Search Results


I would be more apt to believe the second option -_itie_ would give -_eze_ and then the final -_e_ would be dropped as always after _z_ leaving -_ez_.

The words listed like _rapidez, validez_  are _rapidité, validité_ in French not _*rapidesse, *validesse_....  _Vieillesse_ for _vejez _does exist though.


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## ahvalj

merquiades said:


> I would be more apt to believe the second option -_itie_ would give -_eze_ and then the final -_e_ would be dropped as always after _z_ leaving -_ez_.
> 
> The words listed like _rapidez, validez_  are _rapidité, validité_ in French not _*rapidesse, *validesse_....  _Vieillesse_ for _vejez _does exist though.


Yes, the Portuguese _velhice_ rather suggests _*veclitiem._


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## Cenzontle

I extracted several "-ez" nouns from Davies's _Corpus del Español_.
(These plus several surnames constituted the first 100 "-ez" words given.)  
The examples are in ALLCAPS, not because I'm shouting at you, but because I copy-and-pasted them that way and didn't retype them in lowercase.
I want to suggest that we look for examples that were derived *phonologically *from Latin nouns in "-itie(m)", 
and then recognize that the Romance ending "-ez" could have spread "horizontally" from them to other adjectives that had no Latin basis for that ending.  
For example, my pocket Latin dictionary does not have a _*rapidities_, only _rapiditas_ (-_tatem_). Yet in Spanish it's _rapidez_.  
I suspect the same is true for the whole "family" of proparoxitone (= esdrújula) adjectives in "-ido" (Sp. _tímido_, but Lat. _timiditas _(-_tatem_); 
Lat. _soliditas _(-_tatem_), etc.  Here's the family:  
RAPIDEZ, PALIDEZ, TIMIDEZ, SOLIDEZ, VALIDEZ, ESTUPIDEZ, AVIDEZ, RIGIDEZ, LUCIDEZ, CANDIDEZ, LANGUIDEZ, ARIDEZ, LIQUIDEZ, FLUIDEZ, NITIDEZ.

Because words can *synchronically *borrow endings from one another regardless of their (Latin or other) etymology,
it doesn't matter whether, for example, every word has a counterpart in French -_esse_; 
theoretically just one or two French words could establish the "-ez" ending in Spanish, and then other Spanish adjectives could join them regardless of the situation in French. (But actually I'm not advocating the French scenario at all.)

Here are the remaining "-ez" words that I found.  
Which one(s) of them could have their Sp. -_ez_ *phonologically *derived from a Latin form in "-itie(m)"?  
Do any of you have a reverse Latin dictionary, to find words according to their endings?
NIÑEZ, SENCILLEZ, VEJEZ, MADUREZ, ESCASEZ, HONRADEZ, EMBRIAGUEZ, ALTIVEZ, DESNUDEZ, PEQUEÑEZ, ESTRECHEZ, BRILLANTEZ,
ROBUSTEZ, INSENSATEZ, PESADEZ, VIUDEZ, DOBLEZ, REDONDEZ, SENSATEZ.

What did these adjectives have that was different from the adjectives that took "-eza" for their ending:  
naturaleza, belleza, riqueza, tristeza, pobreza, nobleza (and many more)?


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## Penyafort

I am not sure about what Latin suffix must have been the origin, although I believe -itie(m) to be far more probable. But I would rule the 'French influence' out. Words like _niñez _or _vejez _were already attested in the 13th century, long before French influences reached the Castiles.


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## ahvalj

Cenzontle said:


> I extracted several "-ez" nouns from Davies's _Corpus del Español_.
> (These plus several surnames constituted the first 100 "-ez" words given.)
> The examples are in ALLCAPS, not because I'm shouting at you, but because I copy-and-pasted them that way and didn't retype them in lowercase.
> I want to suggest that we look for examples that were derived *phonologically *from Latin nouns in "-itie(m)",
> and then recognize that the Romance ending "-ez" could have spread "horizontally" from them to other adjectives that had no Latin basis for that ending.
> For example, my pocket Latin dictionary does not have a _*rapidities_, only _rapiditas_ (-_tatem_). Yet in Spanish it's _rapidez_.
> I suspect the same is true for the whole "family" of proparoxitone (= esdrújula) adjectives in "-ido" (Sp. _tímido_, but Lat. _timiditas _(-_tatem_);
> Lat. _soliditas _(-_tatem_), etc.  Here's the family:
> RAPIDEZ, PALIDEZ, TIMIDEZ, SOLIDEZ, VALIDEZ, ESTUPIDEZ, AVIDEZ, RIGIDEZ, LUCIDEZ, CANDIDEZ, LANGUIDEZ, ARIDEZ, LIQUIDEZ, FLUIDEZ, NITIDEZ.
> 
> Because words can *synchronically *borrow endings from one another regardless of their (Latin or other) etymology,
> it doesn't matter whether, for example, every word has a counterpart in French -_esse_;
> theoretically just one or two French words could establish the "-ez" ending in Spanish, and then other Spanish adjectives could join them regardless of the situation in French. (But actually I'm not advocating the French scenario at all.)
> 
> Here are the remaining "-ez" words that I found.
> Which one(s) of them could have their Sp. -_ez_ *phonologically *derived from a Latin form in "-itie(m)"?
> Do any of you have a reverse Latin dictionary, to find words according to their endings?
> NIÑEZ, SENCILLEZ, VEJEZ, MADUREZ, ESCASEZ, HONRADEZ, EMBRIAGUEZ, ALTIVEZ, DESNUDEZ, PEQUEÑEZ, ESTRECHEZ, BRILLANTEZ,
> ROBUSTEZ, INSENSATEZ, PESADEZ, VIUDEZ, DOBLEZ, REDONDEZ, SENSATEZ.
> 
> What did these adjectives have that was different from the adjectives that took "-eza" for their ending:
> naturaleza, belleza, riqueza, tristeza, pobreza, nobleza (and many more)?


The list of the Latin words on _-itiēs_ can be found in the above link: Latin Dictionary Headword Search Results When posting that, I checked the Latin and Spanish words but failed to find any overlap. On the other hand, there seem to be no overlap between _-ez_ and _-itia_ either (Latin Dictionary Headword Search Results). In your examples, the proparoxitone words have the learned Latin shape and so are secondary. _Niñez, sencillez_ etc. are inherited, but seem to have no Latin counterparts in either _-itiēs_ or _-itia, _so the spread of this suffix should have been an Ibero-Romance phenomenon. For example, _vetustās_ should have been replaced with _*veclitiem_ in western Ibero-Romance _(velhice, vejez)_ and with _*veclitiam_ elsewhere in the West _(vellesa, vielhesa, vieillesse)._


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## Cenzontle

Thank you, ahvalj, for that Latin resource!
Here, in Google Books, is a page (p. 343) that shows that this problem was studied by Thomas Sebeok. 
Google Books omits the crucial page 342, but we can see that Sebeok personifies the two suffixes
and speaks of one of them "luring [words] away from the camp" of the other.  Words that he sees "switching allegiance" from "-eza" to "-ez" include
altiveza, delgadeza, esbelteza, escasseza [_sic_], esquiveza, madureza, redondeza. 
I won't  type out his analysis, but I refer you to that page to see his comments about a "common denominator of the defectors",
based on number of syllables and location of stress.
The question is still open as to which words faithfully transmitted Lat. _-itie(m)_ to Sp. _-ez_ and Lat. -_itia_ to Sp. _-eza_ before the synchronic morphological exchanges occurred.


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## francisgranada

Some personal observations:

1) In case of loanwords from French in _-esse_, I'd expect rather _-esa_ in Spanish (even if _-esa < _Lat._ -issa _has also another function, like in _condesa_, _princesa ..._).

2) Some Spanish words present forms both in _-ez_ and _-eza_, e.g. _grandeza _and _grandez _(no more used, according to DRAE).

3) It would be interesting to see to what degree do the Italian nouns in_ -ezza_ correspond to those in _-ez_ in Spanish. In some cases they surely do, however in many cases there are alternative (often more commonly used) forms as well, e.g. _grandezza,_ _rapidezza _(also _rapidità_),  _vecchiezza _(also _vecchiaia_), _stupidezza _(also _stupidaggine_), but e.g.  _*validezza, *vedovezza_ seem not to exist at all.


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## Angelo di fuoco

francisgranada said:


> 1) In case of loanwords from French in _-esse_, I'd expect rather _-esa_ in Spanish (even if _-esa < _Lat._ -issa _has also another function, like in _condesa_, _princesa ..._).



Go for Catalan (bellesa) and Portugese (beleza).



francisgranada said:


> 2) Some Spanish words present forms both in _-ez_ and _-eza_, e.g. _grandeza _and _grandez _(no more used, according to DRAE).



Interesting!



francisgranada said:


> 3) It would be interesting to see to what degree do the Italian nouns in_ -ezza_ correspond to those in _-ez_ in Spanish. In some cases they surely do, however in many cases there are alternative (often more commonly used) forms as well, e.g. _grandezza,_ _rapidezza _(also _rapidità_),  _vecchiezza _(also _vecchiaia_), _stupidezza _(also _stupidaggine_), but e.g.  _*validezza, *vedovezza_ seem not to exist at all.



Hoepli gives vedovanza as the most frequent form, but it gives also the older or alternative forms vedovità (with variants concerning u-> ov and older, more Latinate forms of the ending), vedovaggio and vedovezza.
Validezza is well attested, although not in contemporary Italian.


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## francisgranada

Angelo di fuoco said:


> Go for Catalan (bellesa) and Portugese (beleza)


Are the Catalan _bellesa _and Portugese _beleza _French loanwords? However it is not even important, because both _bellesa _and _beleza  _seem to be ok (i.e. explainable). The question is, why a French noun like _*bellesse_ (as a theoretic example for illustration) should become _*bellez_ in Spanish? 





> Hoepli gives vedovanza as the most frequent form, but it gives also the older or alternative forms vedovità (with variants concerning u-> ov and older, more Latinate forms of the ending), vedovaggio and vedovezza.
> Validezza is well attested, although not in contemporary Italian.


Yes, in Italian we often find alternative forms, even if some of them may be archaic or learned words (parole dotte/semidotte). The question is, whether the comparison of Spanish-Italian correspondences can help us to find a possible/probable algorithm for the distribution of -_eza _versus _-ez_ in Spanish?  For example  (hypothetically), the nouns in _-eza_ (Sp) and -_ezza _(It) could represent a common heritage from vulgar Latin (Proto-Romance), while  those  that differ or present also alternative endings, could be independent (consequently more recent) creations.


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## Penyafort

francisgranada said:


> Are the Catalan _bellesa _and Portugese _belleza _French loanwords?



The Catalan at least is not. It is already attested in Ramon Llull's works, even if shared for a time with _bellea_ (Catalan tended to drop intervocalic s) and with _beutat_, used in literature.

-esa is still the productive suffix in modern Catalan in the same way that -ez is the productive one in Spanish.


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## Cossue

Angelo di fuoco said:


> Go for Catalan (bellesa) and Portugese (beleza).


Beleza is not present, as long as I know, in Galician medieval charters or prose nor in Galician-Portugese _cantigas _-in Galician _fremosura _is used instead- so I guess that it could be a French late loanword in Portuguese and Galician.


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## Cenzontle

And I found no "belleza" in Davies's _Corpus del Español_ before the 15th century.  (OSp. _fermosura_ does appear in the 13th century, that corpus's earliest century.)
The plot thickens!


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## Penyafort

Yes, the FORMOSUS vs BELLUS is a typical 'peripherical vs central' example. The 'genuine' Ibero-Romance and Romanian forms come from FORMOSUS, while the 'genuine' French-Italian-Catalan ones come from BELLUS.


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## Angelo di fuoco

francisgranada said:


> Are the Catalan _bellesa _and Portugese _beleza _French loanwords? However it is not even important, because both _bellesa _and _beleza  _seem to be ok (i.e. explainable). The question is, why a French noun like _*bellesse_ (as a theoretic example for illustration) should become _*bellez_ in Spanish?



No, they aren't. French had less influence on Spanish in the Middle Ages than we might suppose. If we begin to search for the Gallo-Romance connection, I think we should have a look in Occitan / Provençal / Limousin (yes, that was one of the names of the language) first. Unfortunately, my familiarity with Occitan goes only as far as my knowledge of Catalan allows me to penetrate. That is, I can rather well understand texts written in the classical norm, but less those written in the Mistralian one (based on French spelling rules, but, in my eyes, adopting Occitan to French is similar to laying it into Procrustes' bed).



francisgranada said:


> Yes, in Italian we often find alternative forms, even if some of them may be archaic or learned words (parole dotte/semidotte). The question is, whether the comparison of Spanish-Italian correspondences can help us to find a possible/probable algorithm for the distribution of -_eza _versus _-ez_ in Spanish?  For example  (hypothetically), the nouns in _-eza_ (Sp) and -_ezza _(It) could represent a common heritage from vulgar Latin (Proto-Romance), while  those  that differ or present also alternative endings, could be independent (consequently more recent) creations.



Italian cannot help us to establish any algorithm for the distribution of -eza versus -ez in Spanish because in Italian there's no suffix corresponding to -ez, only to -eza.
However, Italian had some influence on both Medieval French and Spanish, through poetry (Petrarchism, most importantly) and, during late Renaissance, through the Italian artists at the French court and the Medici queens (e. g. the suffix -esque).
Let us compare "beauty": Spanish & &Italian have continuations of both -itia and -as, -atis (belleza & beldad, bellezza & beltate, beltade, beltà). French has only -as, -atis: beauté.

-eza (sufijo) - Wikilengua
I quote:


> Algunos nombres en _-ez_ han quedado anticuados, por haber sido substituidos por formas en _-eza_ (lo mismo a ocurrido a la inversa, con nombres en _-eza_ que ha sido desplazados por las formas en _-ez_), sin que pueda darse regla ninguna que haya influido en estas substituciones. Así se dice hoy _bajeza, delicadeza, dureza, extrañeza_, y no, como antiguamente, _bajez, delicadez, durez, extrañez_.



I think this quote is answer enough to bring our quest to an end, however insatisfactory it be.


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## merquiades

Cossue said:


> Beleza is not present, as long as I know, in Galician medieval charters or prose nor in Galician-Portugese _cantigas _-in Galician _fremosura _is used instead- so I guess that it could be a French late loanword in Portuguese and Galician.


*Bellesse never existed in French.  The form beauté (beauty) is the original so belleza could not have come from French.  Nowadays a number of spas and beauty products have that name.



> *ÉTYMOL. ET HIST. −* 1100 _beltet_ « caractère de ce qui est beau, spécialement qualité d'une personne belle » (_Roland,_ éd. Bédier, 957); 1160 _beautez_ « _id._ » (Wace, _Rou,_ éd. Andresen, 550); 2emoitié xiiies. « personne belle » (_Chansons_ attribuées au chastellain de Couci, éd. A. Lerond, XVII, 5 : c'une *biautez *m'est venue devant). Dér. de_bel, beau_*; suff. _-té (é_*_, -ité_*_)._


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## Cossue

Ah, Ok. According to Coromines (DCECH s.v. _bello_), Spanish _bello_, _beldad _(and Galician and Portuguese _belo_, and Galician several place names _Belvís_) were all taken from Old Occitan. Sadly, he's not that clear about belleza/beleza.


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## Cenzontle

The source cited by Angelo di fuoco (#16) says not only -_ez _> -_eza_, but also "lo mismo a ocurrido a la inversa", i.e. -_eza_ > -_ez_,
"*sin que pueda darse regla ninguna* que haya influido en estas substituciones".
This is disappointing news:  we'd like to know which words led the way for others to follow.
But I have to assume that Wikilengua del español has researched the problem more than I am willing to do.
So I am ready to accept Angelo's judgment that "this quote is answer enough to bring our quest to an end".


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## Angelo di fuoco

The Wikilengua del español link I reported above cites its source, a linguistic work from 1920.
We may research the original state of things (i. e. the first occurrences of those -eza and -ez nouns) in corpora of Medieval Spanish and find some regularities, but for modern Spanish I fear we have no other way than to leave the question as it is.


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