# Macedonian: za vs s prefix



## cr00mz

Hello

I have come across some words that seem to be very similar but they have different prefixes. Is there something else to these words that i am missing?

zatopli vs stopli
završi  vs svrši
zamrzni vs smrzni


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## iobyo

_*За-*_

1. (very rare, now archaic) spacial; indicates that the action takes place behind something: _зајде_. And with a similar but slightly diverted meaning: _замине_, _занесе_, _завлече_.
2. spacial; emphasizes that the action is completed within an exclusive environment: _загради, затвори, затутка, завитка, загрне, затрупа, закопа, затутули_.
3. substitution: _замени_ ('to exchange, to replace with something else'), _замести_ ('to swap places with something else'), _заложи_ ('to pawn').
4. transition into the state of the root: _занеми_ ('to fall quiet' or literally 'to become mute'), _заспие_ ('fall asleep'), _заборчи се_ ('fall/get into debt').
5. superficial fulfillment of the action: _замие, залаже_. And conversely, emphasizing the ingress into the action: _зачита се, замисли се, заигра се, застои се, загледа се._
6. (most common, very productive) emphasizing the start of an action: _зачека, закубе, зареди, задиши, забрза, заоди, затрга._


*С(о)-* (*з-* before a voiced consonant)

1. (primary) associating with something else; gathering together, integration, etc. Usually a derivative of another verb: _собере, состави, соедини, сојузи, созме, здружи, зближи, склучи, сврзе, здуши, сложи, сплете, сметка, зговори се, смести_. There are even a handful of denominatives: _спријатели се, сосвати се_.
2. descent: _сметне, симне, слезе, скине, свлече, соблече, спушти_.
3. emphasizing the start of an action: _спрета_ (usually for babies, 'to start to writhe'), _списка_ ('to start to shriek),_ здаволка се, згори, свика, спрпела се, стрчне се, згргори, збаботи_.
4. instantaneous total completion of the action: _срипа_ ('to jolt/jump up [abruptly]'), _спика_ ('to shove/jam in [in one go]'), _сотре_ ('to wipe out, reduce to nothing [in one blow/swipe/strike]'), _снема_ ('to disappear all of a sudden'), _згрози се_.
5. denominatives; transition to the quality of the root: _здрви_ ('to stiffen' < to become like wood), _скамени_ ('to become hard-hearted' < to become stone), _спепели_ ('to burn' ~ 'to reduce to ashes'), _сврели_, _смали_, _зголеми_, _соголи_, _згрби се_.


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## Brainiac

I'll try to help.
To me, zamrzavati is primary used to freeze things, purposely, and smrzavati often refers to living things, creatures, plants etc. put in a process of freezing. The best way to see the difference is when you take inperfect forms of these to verbs.
_zamrzavati se _- (freezing process) to be freezing in a cooler, turning into solid or ice
_smrzavati se_ - (freezing "phenomenon") to be left to freeze, usually by external factors.​



zamrznuti
to freezeto change from a liquid to a solid when cold; SYN. freeze out, freeze down. 
Freeze over - potpuno zamrznuti
To stop moving or become immobilized; SYN. stop dead.
To stop a process or a habit by imposing a freeze on it; SYN. suspend.
To prohibit the conversion or use of (assets); SYN. block, immobilize. 

smrznuti 
to freeze - To change from a liquid to a solid or semi-solid (the surface) when cold.
to be freezing, feeling cold, to be very cold, below the freezing point.
to chill - chilling to the bone (smzavati *se*)

duboko zamrzavanje - deep freezing (in a freezer). Don't use _smrzavati_ in this case. _Zamrznuti_ to preserve a quality of a thing by freezing it. Smrznuti - smrzavanje is rather freezing in nature or of nature (plants, trees, animals...), by the harsh weather conditions; the quality of the frozen seems not to be preserved, rather it has been slightly ruined, hit by cold. 

In Serbia, both _smznuta _and_ zamrznuta hrana_ is used, but it's said here: *zamrzivač* (freezer, cooler), not "_smrzivač_", and _zamrzavati hranu_, not _smrzavati hranu_, so I vote for "zamrznuta hrana".



​


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## iobyo

I guess I didn't read the question properly. Sorry, cr00mz. BTW, my previous post was mostly taken from a grammar book.

Brainiac's answer is true for Macedonian as well. Though I feel _смрзне _refers more to the result or effect of freezing, whereas _замрзне _refers more to the process of freezing. Though I admit I can think of examples where the opposite is true, so maybe I'm not considering them properly.

_Реката смрз__н__а _('the river has frozen over');
_Синоќа смрзнав_ ('last night I froze', i.e. to catch a cold, etc.);

_Замрзнувач_ ('freezer', the freezing section of a refrigerator), _веднаш штом ќе се вратиш од [кај] месарот, замрзни го месото_.
_Длабоко замрзнување _('deep freezing').

To me _смрзната храна _doesn't sound right for some reason. It sounds like food which just happens to be frozen. _Замрзната храна _is the expression I'm familiar with, '[purposefully] frozen food, refrigerated food'.


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## Brainiac

*završi *vs *svrši

*I'll try to show you the difference I feel between these two verbs (in Serbian), and iobyo, check it out , I believe it's the same in Macedonian.

završiti - to finish sth, (to make it compete, or to put finishing touches to sth, to do the last part of sth; to come to an end, to bring sth to an end, to finish off-up remain of lunch.... almost the same as English _to finish_)

svršiti - something has been finished itself, ended itself; or someone finishes with something, it's like - put an end to it and never return to it, never repeat it, one big "the end" . (although završiti could mean exactly the same thing, in everyday conversation. _Završiti _is used more commonly in oral language, in general.)

Svršeno je! It's over!
svršen čin - fait accompli

NOTE: I wrote "finish itself" because in Serbian _svršiti _means ... primary ONE thing... I was thinking if I should mention it...hmhm...when a man _svrši_, he had an eraction, he "finished", in sex. Actually, if one mentions this verb in an everyday conversation (instead of _završiti_, which is far more common), someone may think you made a nasty joke. Just to tell you...  ​


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## cr00mz

I suppose it makes some sense, still a bit confusing.



iobyo said:


> Though I feel _смрзне _refers more to the result or effect of freezing, whereas _замрзне _refers more to the process of freezing.
> 
> Would the same be for zatopli vs stopli? zatopli being the process of heating up food and stopli the result/effect of heating up food.
> 
> Also would these sentences both work then?
> 
> нозете ми смрзна - the effect of being outside in the snow without shoes.
> 
> нозете ми замрзна - the process of me putting my feet in the freezer


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## Brainiac

> нозете ми смрзна - the effect of being outside in the snow without shoes.
> 
> нозете ми замрзна - the process of me putting my feet in the freezer


 

Actually, not process of putting your leg in a freeze, but the process of freezing your leg up, or if having your leg (already) frozen. (But you depicted it well )
_


смрзне _is often used to describe your physical state, or how you or somebody feels, perception of _cold_. If a live thing, a creature _смрзне_, he/she/it feels cold, but it's not literally frozen. (your first example)

If a (dead) thing _смрзне_, it has iced up.= frozen ("turn into ice"). In that case, _zamrzne_ and _smrzne_ are synonyms (or the effect is the same).
_Реката смрзна__ = __Реката __з__амрзната 

_But:_
птица смрзна = _poor little bird feels cold, it's shivering outside_
птица __замрзна_ = (body of the) bird is frozen, poor little bird is dead (ice-stoned)

You can't say _Ja sam zamrznut_ (I wrote you this in Serbian, I'm not sure how to say it in Macedonian, _Ja sum zamrznata?_),  Walt Disney is _zamznut_  (his body is frozen, he's not alive). It doesn't necessarily mean dead, but not alive, frozen (but if you freeze somebody, he'll probably die, right.)


For zatopli vs stopli... in Serbian is slightly different, but I'll try:

_zatopli _is changing of the temperature of something (by raising it) - the stress is on temperatures raising

Well, here's the song, I hope you'll feel the meaning 

_Tolika mećava ter bješe po svieti
   i studen krvava, ku nie moć izrieti,
.....
   gorušte sunce zgar da ju *stopli* i svrući; (to make it less severe, or not severe at all, by warming it)
za što se tajaše u sinjem oblaku
   ter od zgar ne sjaše, da *stopli *stvar svaku, (to make every thing warm)
čiem pride pravi rok od višnje ljubavi,
   da svietli svoj istok svietu se objavi;

....

...gdi bi mi sunačce ljuveno i milo
   ledeno srdačce i moj duh *stoplilo*, (it has warmed my icy heart and spirit)
da leden i mrazan ne budem tužiti,
   sunčanu prijazan čiem budu združiti._


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## cr00mz

Thanks for the explanation Braniac, still a little bit confusing but i suppose it is something that has to me memorized, or something like that.

@Iobyo

those points you wrote up for *za* and *s* are those all? or is that just a small list for each of those prefixes?

Also a question about the point 6 for *za* and point 3 for *s. *They seem similar what, makes it začeka and not sčeka (zčeka?), the same for spreta and not zapreta?


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## Duya

There are, generally, no hard rules what each prefix means in our verb morphology; those are more guidelines. They're much like English phrasal verbs: there's not much sense connecting _get up, take up, make up, look up_ etc. So, basically, they have to be learned by heart.


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## iobyo

cr00mz said:


> @Iobyo
> 
> those points you wrote up for *za* and *s* are those all? or is that just a small list for each of those prefixes?



Yes, those are all of the ones the author identified; there are a few more tidbits, but that's the full, albeit condensed, list.

These are in no way rules for word-building, just the author's observations.



cr00mz said:


> Also a question about the point 6 for *za* and point 3 for *s. *They seem similar what, makes it začeka and not sčeka (zčeka?), the same for spreta and not zapreta?



There are indeed the same semantically.

I wouldn't know exactly why one of the prefixes is preferred over the other in cases like _за_(6) and _со_(3). If I had to take a guess, I'd say it comes down to the naturally spontaneous development of a language, though I'm sure there's some kind of underlying pattern which I'm oblivious to.

_Спрета _and _запрета _can be used in the same way: _бебето спрета/запрета со нозете_. I personally don't perceive any meaningful difference between the two here:

"The baby kicked out with its feet" (_спрета_, 'instantaneously began kicking out and then stopped kicking out')
"The baby began kicking out with its feet" (_запрета_, 'began kicking out [because of _x_] and continued the action [until _y_]').

So perhaps it's something like _срмзне : замрзне_.

I'm digging myself deeper into the ground, so I'll stop at that.


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## cr00mz

Would the words in the last point of "s" work with za? skameni someone turned in to a stone and zakameni someone began turning in to a stone.?


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