# ישראלי



## dcx97

Hello,

ישראל is pronounced is ra el, but ישראלי is pronounced is re e li. How come the "ra" changed to an "re"?

By the way, do Israelis usually pronounce ישראלי as "is re li" instead of "is re e li" in rapid speech?

Thank you!


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## ADoA

dcx97 said:


> Hello,
> 
> ישראל is pronounced is ra el, but ישראלי is pronounced is re e li. How come the "ra" changed to an "re"?
> 
> By the way, do Israelis usually pronounce ישראלי as "is re li" instead of "is re e li" in rapid speech?
> 
> Thank you!



Israeli is pronounced the same as Israel (with Israel having accent on the 'e' and Israeli having accent on the 'l'). Whoever you heard pronounce it "re" just mispronounced it.

I can't speak for most, but I for one pronounce it just the way it should be pronounced, with an audible "ra'el."


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## Drink

ADoA said:


> Israeli is pronounced the same as Israel (with Israel having accent on the 'e' and Israeli having accent on the 'l'). Whoever you heard pronounce it "re" just mispronounced it.



Dictionaries do give ישראלי with a shva under the ר, even though most people don't pronounce it that way.


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## dcx97

Thanks. I just spoke to an Israeli friend of mine who is actually an Arabic-speaker. However, he has been exposed to a lot of Hebrew and could be considered almost native. Anyway, here is what he said about ישראלי:

1. is re e li is theoretically the correct pronunciation
2. is re li is what most speakers actually say when they speak spontaneously
3. is ra e li is wrong and never heard.


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## ADoA

Hmm....

Possibly. As Drink mentioned, the official spelling with nikkud is יִשְׂרְאֵלִי (which, unless there's a special rule, I have no idea how to pronounce because it'd come out as Isr-Eli, but it would still be technically closer to 'e' than 'a')
I have to disagree unless the it is pronounced differently in different parts of the country and I just happened to be in the minority of people who pronounce it "is ra e li." Highly doubt it, though
I have to *strongly* disagree (not necessarily about it being wrong, but about it never being heard)


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## aavichai

ישראל - yisrael (stressed in the E)
ישראלי - yisre-eli (stressed in the last i)

the reason for the switch is this
the R in the word yisrael has a Qamats
and the stress is close 
yis-ra-El

once you say ישראלי
the stress goes forward to the last sylible that is added
and so,, now the stress is two sylible away from the Qamats in the R

once that happens, the Qamats changes to Mobile Sheva

so the Yisrael
Yis-ra-e-li --> yis-re-e-li (because the stress is on the last /i/)

**
it is like the word Shalom=שלום

when you say "my Shalom"
it "should be" --- Shalomi (just adding a i// at the end)
but then the stress is far away from the "SHA"
sha-lo-mi
and therefore -- sha-lo-mi ---> she-lo-mi


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## dcx97

Thanks! But there is one thing I find very strange: you added a "y" to the beginning of "israel" and "isre-eli". I don't think anybody ever pronounces these words with a "y" in the beginning. I have heard many Israelis speak and they all start both words with "i".


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## shalom00

Not true.


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## elroy

Exactly.  The "y" is always there. 

I don't I've ever heard "yisreeli."  That's probably one of those prescriptively correct pronunciations that isn't encountered much if at all in everyday speech?


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## dcx97

I see. So are there _any_ words in Hebrew that start with a "i" rather than a "yi"?


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## aavichai

some say it correctly and some don't

but if this forum is about the right way
then why do we need to ask how many pronounce it like that and how many do not

in this case these form are very alike
and so... one should not feel "akward" if he pronounce the word correctly, thinking that everybody would look at him strange

the word is common in the news and in the Radio and all of the media
so people hear the correct form all the time

those who say "Israeli/Yisraeli" (in the wrong way) do it of course becasue of "Israel/Yisrael"
and it understood as well of course

but this is not the right way
and those who study the language should pronounce it in the right way
no matter if some pronounce it wrong


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## Drink

dcx97 said:


> I see. So are there _any_ words in Hebrew that start with a "i" rather than a "yi"?



The ones that start with אִ (or הִ when the speaker drops the "h"), for example: אִכְפַּת (ichpat), אִפְשֵׁר (ifsher), אִצְטַדְיוֹן (itstadyon), אִסְלָאם (islam), etc. (for examples with הִ, see any hitpa'el verb).


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## aavichai

all of them starts with I
itto
itti
im mi

by the way
the אפשר is
Efshar (but not Ifshar)


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## dcx97

Thanks. But I think "איתו" and "איתי" are pronounced "ito" and "iti", not "itto" and "itti". At least that's how they're pronounced in modern Israeli Hebrew.


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## aavichai

you're right

i just wrote it like that to be more strict with the Niqqud

but in modern, there is no relevant to the Dagesh Forte


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## Drink

aavichai said:


> by the way
> the אפשר is
> Efshar (but not Ifshar)



I wrote אִפְשֵׁר (ifsher), the pi'el verb, not efshar.


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## aavichai

Hi Drink
i didn't notice that

so i'm with you


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## utopia

elroy said:


> Exactly.  The "y" is always there.
> 
> I don't I've ever heard "yisreeli."  That's probably one of those prescriptively correct pronunciations that isn't encountered much if at all in everyday speech?




That's because you don't listen to Israel radio, where they pronounce it almost always in the news as yisre-eLi.


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## jameslin011

So if I'm gathering the consensus from this thread correctly, ישראלי is prescriptively pronounced "yisre'eli", but the majority of people in everyday life will say "yisra'eli"? Is this the right generalization?


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## LXNDR

Yes i think it's right

And also gonna support the statement that in casual speech the initial *yud* is pronounced as *i* just like it's written in English in particular *I*sraeli

I won't deny that some people may pronounce it as *yi* but i personally don't think i ever heard it much if at all


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## Ali Smith

aavichai said:


> ישראל - yisrael (stressed in the E)
> ישראלי - yisre-eli (stressed in the last i)
> 
> the reason for the switch is this
> the R in the word yisrael has a Qamats
> and the stress is close
> yis-ra-El
> 
> once you say ישראלי
> the stress goes forward to the last sylible that is added
> and so,, now the stress is two sylible away from the Qamats in the R
> 
> once that happens, the Qamats changes to Mobile Sheva
> 
> so the Yisrael
> Yis-ra-e-li --> yis-re-e-li (because the stress is on the last /i/)
> 
> **
> it is like the word Shalom=שלום
> 
> when you say "my Shalom"
> it "should be" --- Shalomi (just adding a i// at the end)
> but then the stress is far away from the "SHA"
> sha-lo-mi
> and therefore -- sha-lo-mi ---> she-lo-mi



The same transformation would take place if, instead of a קמץ, we had a צירי in the antepenult (third-to-last syllable), right? For example, we pronounce לבבות (hearts) as levavot.


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> The same transformation would take place if, instead of a קמץ, we had a צירי in the antepenult (third-to-last syllable), right? For example, we pronounce לבבות (hearts) as levavot.



It doesn't affect the pronunciation, since tzere and shva na are pronounced the same in Modern Israeli Hebrew. But yes, in לבב you have a tzere, and in לבבות you have a shva na.


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