# Panjabi: <bhannā> versus <toṛnā>



## panjabigator

I am interested to know if these verbs are interchangeable within idiomatic phrases as well as proverbs within Panjabi.  I have used them synonymously, and I have the feeling that <bhannā> is a bit more _theṭh_, though not necessarily _pendu._  I also feel that <toṛnā> is a bit more natural for me to say given its commonilty to Hindi and Urdu (and that my parents almost always use it), and that if I say <bhannā>, I am making a concerted effort to be _more Panjabi_.  Perhaps not a universal trend, but I'm sure it exists with at least some speakers. 

For example, could one say <ohne āpṇe ākhrī sāh bhan dite sī> or would it be better to use <toṛnā> there? (ਓਹਨੇ ਅਾਪਣੇ ਅਾਖਰੀ ਸਾਂਹ ਭਨੰ ਦਿਤੇ ਸੀ).

I also know this one from the threat ਮੈਂ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਭਾਨ ਦਿਆਂਗਾ (<mai.n tainū.n bhān diā.n gā>, literally: I'll break you!).  

And how would you change the verb along the following patterns and keep the same root verb?  Hindi/Urdu and Panjabi verbs [and I'm sure other Northern South Asian Indo Aryan languages (what a confusing distinction!)] follow a pattern where the stem verb (the root minus the -nā ending) changes to reflect causation, i.e.:

ṭutṇā - to break (no responsibility/natural occurrence)
toṛnā - to break (guilty party existent)
tuṛvāṇā - to have broken 

How can we change <bhannā> to follow this pattern?  Would it be ਭਨੰਣਾ, ਭਾਨਣਾ, ਭਨੰਵਾਣਾ/ਭਨੁੰਆਣਾ?

Let me know if you like a better explanations for this.  Should anyone need a Devanagri or Nastaliq rendering, let me know.

PG


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## panjabigator

Addendum: can <bhannā> and <toṛnā> be used interchangeably with fruit picking as well?  I.e., if you picked an orange from a tree, what would you use?


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## bakshink

As far as I know <bhannā> can only be used for the things that have a form or physical existence so to say. So heart can't qualify to be "bhan sutya"  but since it can break and be broken so it can (tut sakda hai te toRRya vi ja skada hai).

Also I'm not sure if <bhannā> is more rural or _theṭh_ than <toṛnā> but is lesser known and lesser used certainly because <toṛnā> exists and is used in Hindi and Urdu while <bhan_nā> is a Punjabi word cent percent.So with these limitations in place <bhannā> and <toṛnā> are interchangeable. 

Now PG one can't break one's last breath of one's own will unless one is committing a suicide. So your sentence cannot be right with either form of the verb in question. 

But tuttna only will be used. Because <toṛnā> means 'to break' and tuttna means break. 

The word is ਭਨੰ (bhann) for 'break/breaking' and not ਭਾਨ (bhaan) which means 'loose change' or coins you get in exchange for paper currency. ਭਾਨ (bhaan) also means Sun. It's one of the Hindi/Sanskrit synonyms "Bhanu" for the Sun. 

ਮੈਂ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਭਾਨ ਦਿਆਂਗਾ (<mai.n tainū.n bhān diā.n gā> nearly means I will break your bones because bones alonein the human body can qualify for that kind of damage. 
Main tere dand bhann dene ain ( I will break your teeth) will be more realistic a threat. 
ṭutṇā - to break (no responsibility/natural occurrence)
 toṛnā - to break (guilty party existent)
 tuṛvāṇā - to have broken
<bhannā> to break
bhanvana to have broken
and
bhajna (no responsibility/natural occurrence). Same word as for 'to run'. One more reason for <bhannā> being lesser preferred to toṛnā. 
Bhunana or Bhunvana means to get the corn kernels made into pop-corns or the black whole grams roasted in a 'Kadayee' with sand in it. In old times when modern pop-corn making machines were not invented, that's how people savoured such grams and the man who did this job was called BhaRRbhoonja.

Bhunvana in Hindi means to get the currency note exchanged in to coins. In Punjabi it is called "note bhanana.


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## panjabigator

Thanks for the Bakshink. Useful information then as it is now. One follow question:



> bhajna (no responsibility/natural occurrence). Same word as for 'to  run'. One more reason for <bhannā> being lesser preferred to  toṛnā.



Is this the same thing as ਟੁੱਟਣਾ then? Do people use it? Could you write some example sentences?


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## Qureshpor

p_hajNRaa = to break (intrasitive) = Urdu/Hindi "phuuTnaa"/"TuuTnaa" (cf. TuuT-phuut for TuTT-p_hajj)

gayaa taqdiir de naal p_haj ThuuThaa (Heer Waris Shah)

p_hannNRaa = to break (transitive) = Urdu/Hindi "phoRnaa"/"toRnaa" (cf. p_hann-troR)

teriyaaN maiN haDDiyaaN p_hann/troR dayaaN gaa!

I'll break your bones!

maiN tere p_haaNDe p_hann dayaaN gaa!

I'll break your utensils!

p_hannaaNRaa = tuRvaanaa

aj kis koluN buuthaa p_hannaa ke aa gayaa veN?


I don't believe "p_hannNRaa" and "toRnaa/troRnaa" are synonymous in all situations.

os baaGh choN maalTe troR ke liyaa (not p_hann ke liyaa!)

maiN teriyaaN lattaaN p_hann/troR chhoRaaN gaa!


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## panjabigator

I just noticed that QP Sahib has written "troR." Do you mean تروڑ؟


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I just noticed that QP Sahib has written "troR." Do you mean تروڑ؟



Yes, I meant to write "troR".


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## panjabigator

Never heard this one. Great pronunciation to know. I'll be speaking QPstani before I know it!


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## marrish

Yes it is both troR and toR. Nothing specific about it.


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## hindiurdu

marrish said:


> Yes it is both troR and toR. Nothing specific about it.



My relatives use this 'extra r' a lot too. traambe di taar. troRna. I agree on the bhan-na point that it has to imply some kind of damage or breakage, whereas toRna also could mean to sever something from another thing. sar phann de'aanga = sar toR de'aanga. But 'draxat de phal toRe' is correct and 'draxat de phal bhanne' is not. Maybe you could say 'draxat de phal bhanne' in the sense of physically destroying/damaging fruit on a tree. I wonder if there are any situations where you cannot use 'toRna' instead of 'bhan-na'.


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## panjabigator

> But 'draxat de phal toRe' is correct and 'draxat de phal bhanne' is not. Maybe you could say 'draxat de phal bhanne' in the sense of physically destroying/damaging fruit on a tree.



I agree with you here. "bhannaa" seems to have a different sense here. Never thought about that.


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I agree with you here. "bhannaa" seems to have a different sense here. Never thought about that.



When one talks about "toRnaa"/"troRnaa" in terms of fruit, I don't believe one is talking about "breaking" the fruit but "picking it". The  only breaking that takes place is the stalk of the fruit, one end of which is attached to the fruit and the other to the branch of the tree.


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## BP.

Gents, may I put up an Urdu question: is the word bunwaanaa or bhuunnaa in Urdu related to bhannaa in Panjabi? The question comes out of a specific example: paisee bhunwaanaa - get loose change for your money. Some people also say yeh note tuRaa loo, so both words hint at a possible link.
Thanks.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Gents, may I put up an Urdu question: is the word bunwaanaa or bhuunnaa in Urdu related to bhannaa in Panjabi? The question comes out of a specific example: paisee bhunwaanaa - get loose change for your money. Some people also say yeh note tuRaa loo, so both words hint at a possible link.
> Thanks.



I would say there is a definite link.

H بهانجنا भांजना_bhāṅjnā [S. भञ्जनीयं, rt. भञ्ज्; Prk. भंजणिअं], v.t. To break, destroy;—to put into circular motion; to turn on a lathe; to turn, twirl, twist, wind; to wave, brandish; to count one's beads; to repeat or recite (prayers, counting the beads the while).

H بهاننا भान्ना *bhānnā*, v.t.=bhāṅjnā, q.v. 

Therefore bhaan_naa = to break (one meaning)

H بهنانا भुनाना bhunānā (caus. of bhunnā, 'to be changed'), v.t. To cause to be changed; to change (money).

bhunaanaa = to get it broken (?) (through an agent)

In Punjabi, the equivalents would "p_hannaNRaa" >> "p_hannaaNRaa

p_haan = change 

tuRaanaa would be the causative of "toRnaa".
_


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## panjabigator

How common are  بهانجنا भांजना in Hindi and Urdu?


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> How common are بهانجنا भांजना in Hindi and Urdu?



Don't tell me PG SaaHib that this word reminds you of the Punajbi "p_hajNRaa" (to get broken)! Well, I would say that in Urdu bhaaNjnaa is extremely rare if not obsolete but one dictionary I checked just now gives "bhaaNj" as "loose change" (P_haan).


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## panjabigator

بھان ਭਾਨ we say in my house for loose change. Actually, that might be a retroflex noon...


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