# Ukrainian: neutral name for a child



## Hanamaru

Hello, 

I'm designing a female Ukranian character for a story, and wondering if anyone could help me with her name.. I like the Russian/Ukranian name Yuri/Uri/Euri because "Yuri" is also a Japanese girl name (meaning lily). If it helps, I am writing this story in Japanese, intended for Japanese-speaking audience, so even when I'm designing a non-Japanese character, I'm more inclined to choosing foreign names that sound remotely Japanese (like Ken or Mikki). One or two-syllable names with clear vowel pronunciation sound close, I think.

The problem is that Yuri apparently is a variant of George and is extremely masculine. My female character is a tomboy, so a gender neutral name (like Alex or Taylor in English) would be perfect.. And ideally, a modern name that sounds Japanese-y, since 'George' does sound a bit traditional.

I understand this question is not related to Slavic grammar or terminologies, but I thought it's best to seek suggestions from native speakers, because I'm not familiar with nuance - whether some of the names I see on baby naming websites are gender neutral in modern context  (for instance, nowdays girls can be named Ryan or Jordan). I don't find those websites reliable because Japanese baby names listed there sure sound cheesy..

Sorry about the length. Thank you!


----------



## Kolan

I do not know if what you are looking for exists ever. The Ukrainian (and the Russian, as well) personal names are clearly gender distinct, even though they may derive from the same root (there are not many of them, either). 

Ex.: Valentin - Valentina 
Aleksandr (ukr.Oleksandr) - Aleksandra (ukr.Oleksandra) 
Victor -Victoria 
Oleg - Olga
Evg(u)eni(y) - Evg(u)enia

However, if you dare to use some short spoken versions (not official, though), then there would be few more or less gender neutral suggestions

*Shura, Sash*(k)*a* (from Aleksandr/Aleksandra) - more masculine
*Valya* (from Valentin/Valentina) - more feminine
*Zhenya, *Zhen'ka (from Eugeni/Eugenia) - the most ambivalent

They could be all Russian or Ukrainian, equally.

Absolutely not sure how pleasantly would it sound to a Japanese ear.


----------



## tram-pam-pam

> (and the Russian, as well) personal names are clearly gender distinct


... even though there are some "exceptions" that traditionally confuse foreign ear(s)
(like *Nikita*, a widely used _full _male name). 

Also, in some 'circles' it is quite usual to 'convert' names to 'non-Slavic' forms/names, making them sound 'more stylish' 
(like using *Nadin*, which actually sounds more masculine, instead of *Nadezhda*)*.

*And yes, Hanamaru, you are right,* Yuri* sounds 'extremely masculine', for historical reasons, may be.
Just have a look at the famous monumentof *Yuri Dolgoruki*: http://www.vokrugsveta.ru/img/cmn/2007/06/13/020.jpg
Nothing feminine in *Yuri.

*Even though, for me, *Victoria *(from _victory_) still sounds soft and feminine (perhaps, a bit solemn), but *Victor -* very 'dry'. (In contrast with *Vitaliy, *a male name that also allows *Vitya* as a short form, which sounds quite soft and a bit feminine.)

ps
Just a little thought 'about' (not a suggestion):
*Майя (Maya)* - a female Russian name,
*Май (May) -  *a male one (quite rare, though). Sounds quite soft and feminine
*May* -  again, a female (English?) name.

...But a tomboy... To me,  девочка-сорванец may be, for example, *Кира (Kira, *or* ?Kyra?). *(The correspondent male name, I suppose, is *Kирилл *(*Kirill)*.)
Or, maybe, *Ника (Nika).
*But actually, I don't know how Ukrainian they sound.


----------



## Hanamaru

Thank you for explanation and suggestions, Kolan and tram-pam-pam!
It was a good idea to ask the native speakers, really...
I could never figure out the nuance on my own.

Out of the suggestions and examples, I particularly liked Maya and Eugenia.
Maya is also a Japanese girl name, and sounds very, very lovely.
As for Evguenia/ Evgenia/ Evgenya/ Yevgenia, it doesn't have a Japanese ring to it, but sure sounds pleasant to my ears 

I am wondering whether you pronounce the v in Evgenia as "vee"
sound (Eu-v-genia), or do you pronounce that "you-genia" like how Eugenia is in English?　And "genia" is pronounced "jeh-nya" as opposed to "ji-ni-a"?

Thank you.


----------



## Kolan

Hanamaru said:


> As for Evguenia/ Evgenia/ Evgenya/ Yevgenia, it doesn't have a Japanese ring to it, but sure sounds pleasant to my ears
> 
> I am wondering whether you pronounce the v in Evgenia as "vee"
> sound (Eu-v-genia), or do you pronounce that "you-genia" like how Eugenia is in English?　And "genia" is pronounced "jeh-nya" as opposed to "ji-ni-a"?


Just use *Zhenka* [jeh-ni-ka]. (which should be easy to reproduce in Japanese).  You'll make no mistake.

"...Жила там когда-то давненько
Девчонка по имени *Женька*.

Мальчишечье имя носила,
Высокие травы косила,..."

(by Konstantin Vanshenkin)

http://www.litera.ru/stixiya/authors/vanshenkin/stoit-sred-lesov.html


----------



## Hanamaru

You're right, I should stick with a version that's easier to pronounce in Japanese. And Zhenka does sound cute.

I traslated the webpage with Altavista. The translation was a little hard to understand, but I'm assuming it's a poem about Zhenka? With a mention about Hamlet.

Thank you both for your help!


----------



## cyanista

Hanamaru said:


> You're right, I should stick with a version that's easier to pronounce in Japanese. And Zhenka does sound cute.


If you opt for Zhenka, please keep in mind that n is actually palatalized. I don't know anything about Japanese phonology but I've just seen in Wiki that it has palatalized sounds, too, so that might be important.


----------



## Kolan

Hanamaru said:


> And Zhenka does sound cute.
> 
> I traslated the webpage with Altavista. The translation was a *little hard to understand*, but I'm assuming it's a poem about Zhenka? With a mention about Hamlet.


It is a poem, the verses (1-4, 7, and again 1) became a patriotic song popular in the Soviet time. *Hamlet* (Shakespeare's) is not really involved, in the translation you mentioned it stands for woods around the village where she lived. 

*Zhen*(i)*ka* is a teenager girl (16 or less) who becomes young guerilla warrior during the German invasion into the Soviet Union. She bears a boyish name (that's what you asked for), she is strong physically (_joyful force_) and works at a collective farm (mowing grass). When the enemy forces occupy her land, she joins Soviet guerilla troops nearby the village. Talking to her mother she never complains about the burden of guerilla war. She takes part in the military actions against German troops, and she is respected by her fellow warriors. The guerilla command intends to recommend her for an award, but during one of the missions she is hit and killed by a fascist grenade. On her memorial picture exhibited at the school she smiles with no sorrow or pain. Her eyes are boundless, her dreams are innocent, her words (speech) are simple.

By the way, I just found a site which may be of your interest
http://english.sovmusic.ru/download.php?fname=zhenka (Ludmila Zykina)
http://english.sovmusic.ru/download.php?fname=zhenka1


----------



## Kolan

Here is a song about *tomboy Zhen'ka* which hair is cut à la Arnold (Schwarzenegger).

"*Женька *парень заводной, под Арнольда стриженный.
За друзей всегда горой, силой не обиженный.
Без батяньки *Женька *рос, всяк мальца порадует.
Кто отсыплет папирос, кто винца накапает"

http://pesnihi.com/d/duna/duna_zhenka.html

It is a modern song with some slang.

Another, Japanese-related example is also about *Zhen'ka-aikidoka *(10-years old boy studying aikido with his father, but it could easily be a girl, as well) which makes now even more sense in our context. 

http://www.korosu.ru/index.php?productID=73


----------



## tram-pam-pam

*Zhen'ka *is a really good choice (better than would be, for example, *Mayka*  ).

   It just sounds ‘right’. Despite all the solemnity and sadness of that song. 
(In my childhood I cried when listening... And for me, it was very close to another Soviet poem with a patriotic girl as a heroine: 
_'Валя-Валентина, что с тобой теперь?..._ 
_...Нас водила молодость в сабельный поход // Наc бросала молодость на кронштадский лёд..._’ (by Eduard Bagritsky).
But it was long ago, my school days.


----------



## Hanamaru

I thank everyone for the posts. I appreciate it!

 The links are very helpful, because I was going to research in depth about Soviet Union. There is an interesting coincidence that my character has a military background and trained in martial arts..

 I gather from tram-pam-pam's comment that the poem about guerilla warrior Jhen'ka has deep meaning for people of your culture.


----------

