# סח



## Colla

Hi, I'd like to know if the word "סח" is related to the verbs "הוסח", or "להסיח" (i.e. one of their conjugations), since on websters-online-dictionary I found it means deflection, deviation, diversion, removal, turning aside, but in some other online dictionaries I found it means      to say, speak, talk,  converse.
Thank you


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## origumi

Originally there are two words, להסיח (to divert etc.) and להשיח (to converse etc.). However, the sound of sin and samekh is identical for long time and therefore the spelling is mixed sometimes. Not sure when this spelling mixture began and to what level swaping the two is regarded as correct spelling.


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## Colla

Thanks for the reply. However I still don't understand (since I'm a beginner student of hebrew) if "סח" could be a conjugation of the verb "להסיח", or if it is just a substantive meaning diversion.
Thanks again.


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## origumi

For להסיח (= to divert): הסחה = diversion. מסיח = diverting (m.). No סח (or very rare).
For להשיח (or להסיח, = to converse): שיחה = conversation, שח or סח = speaking (m.)

I recommend to keep the "ש" vs. "ס" distinction, this is the more common spelling


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## Colla

Sorry for my insistence, but when you say "No סח (or very rare)", you mean that there could be instances (maybe in the past) in which such word may have been used to mean "to divert" or "be diverted"? I'm asking you this because I'm doing a translation where the word "saying" doesn't make much sense to me.
Thank you again


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## Aoyama

That is strange (a little) that samekh and sin (ס and ש) could be used (interchanged) in the same word.
See this other (very long) discussion : http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1686672&highlight=samekh


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## OsehAlyah

origumi said:


> For להסיח (= to divert): הסחה = diversion. מסיח = diverting (m.). No סח (or very rare).
> ........


Does מסיח mean diverting(participle/gerund) or diverter(noun)?

Also, whichever one it is, how would you state the other form?


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## Colla

I still can't understand why online dictionaries, such as Babylon or Milon, state as follow: 
סח: v.      to say, speak, talk, converse, since I was told that the abovementioned term is not a verb, let alone I suppose (according to other results contained in the dictionaries) it is related somehow to the verb divert.
Thanks


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## origumi

Aoyama said:


> That is strange (a little) that samekh and sin (ס and ש) could be used (interchanged) in the same word.
> See this other (very long) discussion : http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1686672&highlight=samekh


This mixture in later Hebrew is a natural outcome of phenomena described in the other thread. Once it's impossible to tell the sound differences, spelling differences are also under risk. Also: in many cases of Hebrew sin, the Aramaic spelling for the cognate word is samekh - yet another source for confusion in the long era where both languages were spoken and writtern by the Hebrew people.



OsehAlyah said:


> Does מסיח mean diverting(participle/gerund) or diverter(noun)?


As usual with "present tense" Hebrew verbs, they can be also used as adjectives or nouns. The sentence structure tells the difference.



Colla said:


> I still can't understand why online dictionaries, such as Babylon or Milon, state as follow:
> סח: v. to say, speak, talk, converse


I guess that dictionaries show for verbs the past single masculine form. Therefore you see "סח" = "he spoke", "he conversed", and yet the English translation is "to speak", "to converse". It's a matter of convention, not of language.


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