# Unde dai și unde crapă



## szivike

Bună,

m-ar interesa dacă stiți cumva o expresie asemănătoare în engleză, sau cum s-ar traduce acest rând. Context nu pot să dau deoarece nu mă refer la nimic concret, ci doar la traducerea generală a acestei expresii. 

Mulțumesc,


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## Robyyz

where you hit,there it breaks...asta mi-a venit acuma în minte


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## farscape

Robyyz said:


> where you hit,there it breaks...asta mi-a venit acuma în minte



Este asta o zicală din limba engleză? Mă-ndoiesc 

Ca în multe alte situaţii, proverbele sau zicalele nu au un echivalent  direct. Mai aştept să văd ce-mi spune o altă sursă dar deocamdată nu pot  să ofer decât _the not so witty: not the intended outcome_.


Best,


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## szivike

Mulțumesc, Robyyz si farscape 

Asta mă interesa și pe mine, să aflu dacă există ceva de genul în engleză. Că doar engleza-i mare... 

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/521713


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## nicolero

Ar putea fi "barking up the wrong tree" sau "bring a knife to a gunfight", ceva de genul asta... Sigur or mai fi si altele

Nicole


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## farscape

nicolero said:


> Ar putea fi "barking up the wrong tree" sau "bring a knife to a gunfight", ceva de genul asta... Sigur or mai fi si altele
> 
> Nicole



Food for thought - ambele expresii n-au nici clin nici mânecă cu "unde dai şi unde crapă":

- bring a knife to a gun fight:
"If someone brings a knife to a gunfight, they are very badly prepared for something"

- barking up the wrong tree:
"If you are barking up the wrong tree, it means that you have completely misunderstood something or are totally wrong."

Later,


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## nicolero

Merci, farscape! Unde-am dat si unde-a crapat LOL

Al doilea mi se parea mai mult sa semene cu unde dai si unde crapa (care inseamna, dupa cate stiu eu, o actiune facuta cu intentia unui rezultat, dar care obtine un alt rezultat in final, neasteptat), dar probabil c-am interpretat eu prea romaneste 

Still diggin', e interesant de vazut daca cineva ne lamureste  Pe site-ul de unde ai luat definitiile n-a gasit nimeni nimic?

Nicole


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## spiritof2010

The closest I came to a similar meaning in English is the following expression: "it's like buying a pig in a poke"


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## farscape

Let me try to explain better the Romanian idiom: Ioan calls Petre to  talk about the upcoming football match. Petre replies reminding Ioan of  the 20 euros he's owed. The two actions are not related, in fact the  intended conversation about football is turned into something else.

The English expression, buying a pig in a bag, sight unseen, is  different, it's about a confidence trick (in the bag can be anything  that wriggles).

Later,


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## Shebaa

Buna,
_To shoot at a pigeon and kill a crow._


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## farscape

Shebaa said:


> Buna,
> _To shoot at a pigeon and kill a crow._



Never heard of it, is this an English idiom? Can you give a quotation or the source, please?


This is what I found here - the only(!) hit on Google: (http://www.mamalisa.com/?t=hes&p=1908&l=A)

"The expression "to shoot a pigeon and kill a crow" expresses a lucky accident OR to blunder deliberately." Not quite, but close...

Best,


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## spiritof2010

Well, there may not be one single expression that delivers every possible meaning of the Romanian expression which is about an *unexpected* outcome - one would expect to find a pig in the poke but there may be something different, not necessarily a confidence trick. Another possible equivalent would be"lucky dip". I like, though, the expression "to shoot at a pigeon and kill a crow" put forward by Shebaa.


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## farscape

spiritof2010 said:


> Well, there may not be one single expression that delivers every possible meaning of the Romanian expression which is about an *unexpected* outcome - one would expect to find a pig in the poke but there may be something different, not necessarily a confidence trick. Another possible equivalent would be"lucky dip". I like, though, the expression "to shoot at a pigeon and kill a crow" put forward by Shebaa.



I don't think you've grasped the meaning of the Romanian idiom, based on these:

Lucky dip (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lucky+dip)
- a game in which prizes (e.g., candies or coins) are concealed in a  container and for a small sum a player can draw one out at random
- a selection or decision purely at random; "their system of hiring people seemed to be a sort of lucky dip"

Also here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke) the equivalent Romanian idiom is given as "_a cumpăra cu ochii închiși_" - buying something without knowing what it is.

The meaning is very simple, but said in a witty way: not quite the expected/desired outcome; luck doesn't necessarily play a key role nor is an accident or a blunder a key outcome. In real life, when chopping wood with an axe and you hit the piece of wood with the axe in one place and it cracks in another place you have a classic case of "*unde dai și unde crapă*"

TTFN,


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## Shebaa

farscape said:


> Never heard of it, is this an English idiom? Can you give a quotation or the source, please?
> 
> 
> This is what I found here - the only(!) hit on Google: (http://www.mamalisa.com/?t=hes&p=1908&l=A)
> 
> "The expression "to shoot a pigeon and kill a crow" expresses a lucky accident OR to blunder deliberately." Not quite, but close...
> 
> Best,



Hello,

The only source I have is my former school dictionary.
If you are interested: 
Dicţionar frazeologic român-englez
Copyright © 2000, 1998 Teora
ISBN 973-601-836-9

And also I found these ones:
_Shoot at a pigeon and kill a crow ; 
Shoot at another and kill his brother ; 
Shoot again and kill a wren, _here: (http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924092530579/cu31924092530579_djvu.txt)

I hope I was helpful.


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## spiritof2010

Hello Farscape,

I do speak Romanian and you say "when chopping wood with an axe and you hit the piece of wood with the axe in one place and it cracks in another place you have a classic case of "*unde dai și unde crapă*". So, if luck or accident doesn't come into it, do you use a physical model to predict the exact place of the cracks? A random outcome is generated.

The Romanian expression actually is very comprehensive; one can have a negative or positive action leading to a negative or positive outcome which is unexpected. The outcome can be seen from the perspective of the acting person or the receiving person.
For example:
1. a negative action and a positive outcome - would be described in English by the idioms: "A blessing in disguise" by the receiving person and as an "unlucky dip" by the acting person who wanted to cause harm to the receiving person;

2. a negative action and a negative outcome - would be described in English by the idioms: "An unlucky dip"" by the receiving person and as "a lucky dip" by the acting person who was happy to cause unexpected harm to the receiving person;

3. a positive action and a negative outcome - would be described in English by the idiom: "Losing a pound and finding a penny" by both persons;

4. a positive action and a positive outcome - would be described in English by the idiom: "Losing a penny and finding a pound" by both persons;

A general expression that can cover almost everything is: "You win some and you lose some". This doesn't necessarily involve people but only actions and outcomes.


<<off-topic content deleted by moderator>>


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## Trisia

Hello all,

Please, let's try not to derail this fascinating conversation. This thread can be both enjoyable and instructive and your contributions have been valuable, but if it turns into a battlefield then I'm afraid next time I won't be pruning it, I'll be closing it for good.

Thank you for your understanding.
Trisia
(wearing a moderator hat)


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## larisse

Hello,

here's the equivalent for "unde dai si unde crapa" -"He struck at Tib and down fell Tom"(proverb).
"_Barking up the wrong tree_" (idiom) = to make the wrong choice, to ask the wrong person or to follow a wrong course.
"_Buy a pig in a poke_" (idiom) = to buy something without looking inside first.


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## spiritof2010

Well, the idea or notion behind the Romanian expression is an absence of control over the outcome of an action which doesn't go according to plan, possibly leading to surprising results. As a speaker of English, I can say that I have never heard of  Larisse's first suggestion while the second suggestion misses the point. As to the third suggestion, I remember putting it forward as a partial option on the 28 October 2010. More suggestions were posted on 1 November 2010.


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## farscape

I think Larisse is on to something here: a quick search on the Net reveals several references in BE, although it may be just a translation of a German proverb (http://www.special-dictionary.com/proverbs/keywords/struck/)

The other entries in her comment are meant (I assume) to clearify the meaning of those expressions people have quoted earlier as possible equivalents for the original Romanian expression.

Best,


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## spiritof2010

On 1 October, 2010, in a comment posted on this thread, Nicolero writes in Romanian in reaction to a misunderstanding: "Unde-am dat si unde-a crapat ". This context of usage of the Romanian expression  can be reproduced in English - in this instance - by "barking up the wrong tree" ( http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bark?rskey=CNMQAE&result=1#m_en_gb0061530 )   as suggested by Nicolero on 30 September 2010  and by Larisse on 8 January 2011. 

It should be pointed out that the corresponding English expression depends on the context and circumstances of the action taken by a person.  But a general expression I use frequently is "you win some, (and) you lose some" indicating a broad range of random outcomes.
Can anyone suggest Romanian expressions which provide nuances of  "*Unde dai și unde crapă"  *just as there are various options in English?


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