# Urdu: براہِ / برائے ؛ از راہِ



## Alfaaz

*Background: 

*There are constructions like براہِ راست and براہِ عنایت. There also seem to be phrases like برائے مہربانی , برائے بیت , برائے خدا , برائے نام , برائے چندے , برائے فروخت. 

Context: 

_A: Why are you taking it so seriously? I just said that از راہِ تفنن ! 
B: I'm not angry یار ...just really busy! We can talk later. شب بخیر
_
*Questions: *

What is the difference (or is there any difference) between برائے and براہِ ?
What would the correct expression be: از راہِ تفنن or از رائے تفنن ?


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## Qureshpor

ba-raah-i-x means "by way of x", "raah" of course meaning way/path/coarse/road.

ba-raa-i-x means "for the sake of x" (NB: xudaa-raa = For the sake of God= ba-raa-i-xudaa)

ba-raah-i-raast = siidhe raaste par (also: directly)

ba-raah-i-3inaayat = by way of kindness (Taking the path of kindness)

ba-raa-i-mihr-baanii = for the sake of kindness

ba-raa-i-faroxt = For Sale

ba-raa-i-chande = For some people

ba-raa-i-naam = for the sake of name/in name only

az raah-i-tafannun = by way of amusement = jokingly

az raa-i-tafannun


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## ValerioPak

May I also add the expressions "ba-raa-i xavaatiin" (for ladies) and "ba-raa-i hazraat" (for gentlemen)? V.


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for the answers everyone!


			
				Qureshpor said:
			
		

> az raa-i-tafannun


 Could از رائے تفنن - _az raa-e-tafannun _then not mean _for the sake of amusement_?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Thanks for the answers everyone! Could از رائے تفنن - _az raa-e-tafannun _then not mean _for the sake of amusement_?


You will no doubt have noticed that "raa" is not preceded by "az" in any of the examples but "raah" is preceded by az and ba.


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## Alfaaz

Qureshpor said:
			
		

> You will no doubt have noticed that "raa" is not preceded by "az" in any of the examples but "raah" is preceded by az and ba.


 Yes. Could you perhaps shed some more light on raa...its meaning, purpose, and usage? It was recently discussed (by you and other forum members) in a Persian thread (with the example: ba-raa-e-khudaa = khudaa-raa), but perhaps at an advanced level.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Yes. Could you perhaps shed some more light on raa...its meaning, purpose, and usage? It was recently discussed (by you and other forum members) in a Persian thread (with the example: ba-raa-e-khudaa = khudaa-raa), but perhaps at an advanced level.


Well, as this is an Urdu thread and also as "raa" does not play a major part in Urdu language, it is not necessary to delve into its details here. As you are aware there are threads in the Persian section of the forum. In Urdu, as far as I know, raa occurs only in "baraa'e" and "xudaa-raa".


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## iskander e azam

Qureshpor said:


> ba-raah-i-x means "by way of x", "raah" of course meaning way/path/coarse/road.
> 
> ba-raa-i-x means "for the sake of x" (NB: xudaa-raa = For the sake of God= ba-raa-i-xudaa)
> 
> ba-raah-i-raast = siidhe raaste par (also: directly)
> 
> ba-raah-i-3inaayat = by way of kindness (Taking the path of kindness)
> 
> ba-raa-i-mihr-baanii = for the sake of kindness
> 
> ba-raa-i-faroxt = For Sale
> 
> ba-raa-i-chande = For some people
> 
> ba-raa-i-naam = for the sake of name/in name only
> 
> az raah-i-tafannun = by way of amusement = jokingly
> 
> az raa-i-tafannun




Q SaaHib, a beautifully simple post with many examples. I love the fact that it also shows which construction would be incorrect. We are all much indebted to you.


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## Qureshpor

iskander e azam said:


> Q SaaHib, a beautifully simple post with many examples. I love the fact that it also shows which construction would be incorrect. We are all much indebted to you.


IeA SaaHib, aap ke muNh meN ghii shakar!


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## marrish

In a recent thread, for '*please*' برائے مہربانی _*baraa'e* mihrbaanii_ was used by Alfaaz SaaHib while I blindly typed (because of the time at night ) *براہِ مہربانی *_*baraah-e*-mihrbaanii_ in my post. Because of this discrepancy I was asked for explanation with the reference to this thread. I found it an excellent idea to continue this discussion here and promised to come back, so here I am.

My usage is _*ba-raah-e-mihrbaanii*_, not _*baraa'e mihrbaanii*_. Unfortunately I have neither time nor energy to entertain the interested parties with any references from third parties although I'd love to have this issue settled over the coming days, traditionally by means of literary evidence or other sources. Nevertheless for the time-being I can only put on the record that it's _*baraah-e-mihrbaanii*_, to the best of my knowledge.

Having said this, I don't regard this issue as a point of contention and I hope my word for it can be considered sufficient. But if the need for evidence arises, perhaps Alfaaz SaaHib or other friends have the convenience to contribute. Naturally *opinions* from our learned friends can spare the efforts of going on quest for other sources.


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## Alfaaz

Do other forum members have any comments on marrish SaaHib's post (#10)?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz SaaHib, I had always thought that the two versions are two ways of saying the samething (correctly). However, it seems that doubts are being shed on the "ba-raa-i-mihrbaanii" form. I have been a bit busy lately but I will try to see if I can find some literary examples of both. If you can, that would be a great help. So far, it does seem to me that marrish SaaHib could be right in suggesting that "ba-raah-i-mihrbaanii" is the correct format. Let's try and prove him wrong!


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## Qureshpor

^ Alas, marrish SaaHib is correct!

http://urdudigest.pk/2012/02/islah-e-zuban


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## Alfaaz

^ Thanks for the reference!


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## marrish

Thank you QP SaaHib for proving me alas right, I find baraa'e mihrbaanii* for 'please' one of thr most common mistakes, it's to be seen everywhere. As mentioned "please" is _*ba-raah-e-mihrbaanii*_, exactly the same way as _*ba-raah-e-karam*_ is. There is however no obstacle for the existence of baraa-e-mihrbaanii but its meaning would not br "please" but as you indicated above. And thanks for the reference, too.


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## Sheikh_14

From the perspective of a dictionary ba-raah E meharbaanii is indeed the correct construct. However, from a linguistic perspective baraa'e meharbaanii is not a bad Ghalat ul a'aam to have given that it makes perfect sense and is used perhaps just as much. It's one of the few that stands on its own legs.

Coming back to tafannun, would the following be acceptable as alternatives to az raah E tafannun I.e. jokingly:

1. Ba-raah E tafannun.
2. Tafannunan - similar to mazaaqan which is used to mean as a joke or humorously.
3. Tafannun meN- akin to hasii-mazaaq meN
4. Baraa'e tafannun- for the sake of amusement?

Example sentence: "MaineN tau bas aise he tafannunan/tafannun meN/ az raah E tafannun/ba-raah E tafannun/ baraa'e tafannun yeh keh diyaa taa ke tum bhii ham-raah chalo. Aur woh chalii aa'ii."

I had merely opined jokingly that she come along with us. But so she did.

With regard to Janaab Alfaaz's query on the Persian Raa would I be correct in equating it to the Hindi/Urdu kaa? For instance in the often used proverb har Firoun raa Muusaa the verbatim translation would be har Firoun kaa Muusaa which is usually translated however as har Firoun kaa (ko'ii) Muusaa (hotaa) hai.


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