# Et pro harnasio Matildis filie Hunfridi de Bohun



## WestFevalia

Hello everybody,

I'm having a little trouble with a mention in the Pipe Rolls for the years 1184/1185. Here it is:
_Et pro harnasio Matildis filie Hunfridi de Bohun .lvij; _s_. et iij. _d_. per breve regis._
I looked for the meaning of _harnasio _in dictionaries but couldn't find it.
I'm not very good at Classical or Mediaeval Latin, but I guess it's the ablative form of a word belonging to the second declension, so maybe _harnasius _or _harnasium _???
I thought at first it meant "harness" but it seems that I was mistaken.

Does anyone have an idea of what it can mean?

Thanks in advance


----------



## bearded

Hello
Could it be a wrong spelling of _amasio _(abl. of _amasius _= lover)? Just a surmise. Perhaps h added for 'hypercorrection'.


----------



## WestFevalia

Hello bearded,
I'm not quite sure. Would a lover be mentioned in a very official document? He might of course. But Matilda de Bohun was born in the 1170s: her parents married in 1174 or 1175 and her father died in 1181 or 1182. Unless the document refers to the daughter of another Humphrey de Bohun, of course.
I was wondering: could Mediaeval Latin use Latinised French words that didn't exist in Classical Latin - a kind of Dog Latin?


----------



## bearded

Please wait for answers from experts. I hope that e.g. Scholiast can solve your mystery, as mine was just a surmise by a non-specialist.


----------



## WestFevalia

OK, thank you. I'm going to try and find other spelling variants if it's possible


----------



## Scholiast

Greetings all round.

For the moment, _harnasio_ defeats me too. Also _per breve regis_: is this some formulaic/legalistic expression common in accounting language of the time? Presumably in '_lvij; _s_. et iij. _d_.' _we have 's[hillings] and pence (d[enarii])?

No expert in mediaeval Latin, I, but I know where to consult a mediaeval Latin dictionary, some time next week.

Σ


----------



## WestFevalia

Hello Scholiast,
Yes, _per breve regis _appears several times in the Pipe Rolls. Maybe it has something to do with _brevis _"breve" - a sealed writ issued by the King's court?


----------



## Snodv

I suspect _harnasio_ is not Classical or even "real" Latin, but a "Latinization" of some Germanic/Old French word.  The American Heritage Dictionary says our word "harness" comes from ME _harnais_, military equipment, horse trappings, from Old French _harneis.  _When I Google _harnasio,_ I find it in a Latin inventory of property in connection with horses, so I would bet your surmise of "harness" is better than you think.


----------



## Scholiast

Well done Snodv (# 7).

In a 19th-century (French) Dictionary of Late Latin I  have now tracked down not 'harnasium' but 'harn*E*sium', in precisely the senses Snodv. suggests, but including also '_meubles et outils_'. As WestFevalia surmises (# 6), the king's _breve_ will be a rescript or written decree (cf. German _Brief_ and English 'brief' in the legal sense).

Σ


----------



## Snodv

I should cite that better.  I find these words "..._cum toto harnasio pro ij equis, una caruca cum ferramentis et harnasio_..." in an 1886 publication of a document from the 1300's, _Memorials of the Church of Saints Peter and Wilfrid, Ripon, vol. 2._


----------



## bearded

Scholiast said:


> harn*E*sium'


In Italian we have the substantive _arnese _(tool, instrument). Probably the same as 'harnesium', of Celtic origin.
https://www.etimo.it/?term=arnese&find=Cerca


----------



## WestFevalia

Thank you all for your posts... I might have looked for this harness quite a long time otherwise!


----------



## Scholiast

Hello again!

The document looks like something to do with regal disbursements for provision of a dowry. Can the OP confirm that this is right? And incidentally, the word appears to be of Germanic/Viking/Norman French origin, rather than Celtic (sorry, bearded # 11), cf. German _Harnisch_.

Σ


----------



## bearded

Scholiast said:


> ….rather than Celtic (sorry, bearded # 11), cf. German _Harnisch_.


There is no contradiction. As a matter of fact, our Etymologic Dictionary says (see link above):

_French harnais, Engl. harness, Germ. Harnisch._ _Of Celtic origin: harn (Bret.), haearn (Cymr.), iaran (Irish), all having the same root as Old Nordic iarn (Engl.iron) plus probable Romance suffix -ese/ense…._


----------



## Scholiast

I stand corrected! Thanks, bearded.

Σ


----------



## bearded

My pleasure.  Unfortunately, I have no English translation of the It. ''dizionario etimologico'' at my disposal, therefore my link was in Italian only.


----------



## WestFevalia

Scholiast said:


> The document looks like something to do with regal disbursements for provision of a dowry. Can the OP confirm that this is right? And incidentally, the word appears to be of Germanic/Viking/Norman French origin, rather than Celtic (sorry, bearded # 11), cf. German _Harnisch_.
> 
> Σ



Hello Scholiast.

I'm not sure if the documents in question is about a dowry. It's a record of payment etc. made by the Exchequer. Everything is classified by administrative division, I think. The one about Matilda de Bohun is in the _Sudhantescira _(Southhampton?) section. Matilda was an orphan at the time, so maybe she was in the King's custody (?)
As I wrote in the OP, I'm not very good at Latin, but the preceding sentences in the paragraph mention the Duke of Saxony, Henry II's son-in-law Henry the Lion, who was in exile in England with his family at the time. If Matilda was in the King's custody at the time, maybe she was being brought up with his Saxonian grandchildren, who were about her age (born in the 1170s).


----------



## Scholiast

Greetings once more


WestFevalia said:


> _Sudhantescira _(Southhampton?)


  -shire.


WestFevalia said:


> I'm not sure if the documents in question is about a dowry... Matilda was an orphan at the time, so maybe she was in the King's custody (?)


If Matilda was an orphaned ward of the King (Henry II at the time), it would be normal practice at that period for him or his Exchequer to provide a dowry.
And @bearded (# 16): further thanks for the link (my Italian is up to this)
Σ.


----------



## bearded

Scholiast said:


> @bearded (# 16): further thanks for the link


Don't mention it.


----------



## WestFevalia

Scholiast said:


> If Matilda was an orphaned ward of the King (Henry II at the time), it would be normal practice at that period for him or his Exchequer to provide a dowry.
> Σ.



Yes of course, I didn't think about that. Actually, it's Matilda's age at the time that puzzled me. The payment was made in 1184/1185. Matilda's parents married in 1174/1175 and her brother was born in 1175/1176. So she must have been born in 1176/1177 or after and was probably young for the King to arrange her marriage at the time, girls being often married at 12 or later.


----------



## Scholiast

Hello again WestFevalia _et alii_


WestFevalia said:


> Actually, it's Matilda's age at the time that puzzled me


Yes, I see the chronological snag. I don't know enough about betrothal- and marriage-customs or practices of the time to be sure of this, but since girls were regularly married off at 12 or in their early teens, is it beyond the bounds of possibility that when Matilda was 8 or 9 years old her guardian(s) would already be thinking about a prospective marital destination for her, and hence making arrangements to attract appropriate suitors? This is a fascinating piece of social history.
Σ


----------



## Quiviscumque

HARNASIUM, Glossarium mediae et infimae latinitatis, Du Cange et al.


----------



## Snodv

Multas gratias, Quiviscumque.  Well, we tried, but we are treated to the real thing at last.


----------

