# 松柏



## Romeo4755

松 /song/ - pine
柏 /bai/ - cypress
That much I can understand. However, some texts refer to a plant as 松柏树/ What is it? Is it another type of tree? Or is it some general reference to similar trees? I tried to explore the subject but I got lost.
I would really appreciate it if you can clear out this topic for me.


----------



## GunKneeNeon

松柏树 means _pine + cypress_. Because they have similar appearance, we talk them as a whole.


----------



## Romeo4755

GunKneeNeon said:


> 松柏树 means _pine + cypress_. Because they have similar appearance, we talk them as a whole.


Thank you very much! I wasn't even close to that idea.


----------



## yuechu

(I hope it's ok if I ask this question here!)
Is it true that 柏 is often (always?) pronounced bó in Taiwan?
Thanks!


----------



## GunKneeNeon

yuechu said:


> (I hope it's ok if I ask this question here!)
> Is it true that 柏 is often (always?) pronounced bó in Taiwan?
> Thanks!


柏 is a polyphonic character, it's pronounced as both bǎi and bó. 
e.g. 柏（bó）林（lín） being Berlin.


----------



## yuechu

Oh, sorry. What I meant was, is it true that Taiwanese Mandarin prefers the pronunciation bó in the contexts that Mainland Mandarin prefers bǎi, such as when 柏 means "cedar" or is a surname?


----------



## GunKneeNeon

> Oh, sorry. What I meant was, is it true that Taiwanese Mandarin prefers the pronunciation bó in the contexts that Mainland Mandarin prefers bǎi, such as when 柏 means "cedar" or is a surname?


I cannot answer this question. Hopefully a Taiwanese will chime in.


----------



## pabala

“松柏” is simply a combination of the two tree, "松” and “柏”. It doesn't mean any kind of tree. Unless you are literally talking about the trees, "松柏” usually doesn't refer to the tree it self. It comes from a sentence in《论语》which says “岁寒，然后知*松柏*之后凋也”. The sentence is a praise to the two trees 松 and 柏 for their resistence against the frigid winter. Because they stay green when most of the other plants become bald. Therefore “松柏” usually refers to people who will not surrender to harsh environment.


----------



## SuperXW

pabala said:


> “松柏” is simply a combination of the two tree, "松” and “柏”. It doesn't mean any kind of tree...Therefore “松柏” usually refers to people who will not surrender to harsh environment.


It does mean the trees, just we often use its figurative meaning.


----------



## SuperXW

Romeo4755 said:


> 松 /song/ - pine
> 柏 /bai/ - cypress
> That much I can understand. However, some texts refer to a plant as 松柏树/ What is it?


Although we do use 松柏 to refer to their both, I seldom see 松柏树. 
Most of the time I see either 松树 or 柏树.


----------



## Romeo4755

SuperXW said:


> Although we do use 松柏 to refer to their both, I seldom see 松柏树.
> Most of the time I see either 松树 or 柏树.


Unfortunately, I had 松柏树 which was growing on a side of a steep cliff and which the character jumped down from the top. ))) I guess it was pine, they tend to grown in such places.


----------



## SuperXW

Romeo4755 said:


> Unfortunately, I had 松柏树 which was growing on a side of a steep cliff and which the character jumped down from the top. ))) I guess it was pine, they tend to grown in such places.


What's the full context?
这用词听上去并不严谨。


----------



## Romeo4755

SuperXW said:


> What's the full context?
> 这用词听上去并不严谨。


I am sorry, my mistake! 
Not 松柏树 but just 松柏 :
* 只能瞧见距他大约十五米处的悬崖壁上有一棵倒挂松柏
* ... 还是很难看见崖底，不过那棵倒挂松柏，倒是比之前能看清不...


----------



## GunKneeNeon

Romeo4755 said:


> I am sorry, my mistake!
> Not 松柏树 but just 松柏 :
> * 只能瞧见距他大约十五米处的悬崖壁上有一棵倒挂松柏
> * ... 还是很难看见崖底，不过那棵倒挂松柏，倒是比之前能看清不...


Chinese is more of a poetic language, it is not as logical as English. Not only the language itself but also the mind of a native speaker. Expressions like 松柏 are perfectly normal in Chinese, which may seems odd for an English speaker and hence the difficulty in learning Chinese.


----------



## SuperXW

Sometimes people see 松柏 as a same type, and are too lazy to distinguish them. So they use the word to mean both species, or either one.


----------



## Litred

Romeo4755 said:


> 松 /song/ - pine
> 柏 /bai/ - cypress
> That much I can understand. However, some texts refer to a plant as 松柏树/ What is it? Is it another type of tree? Or is it some general reference to similar trees? I tried to explore the subject but I got lost.
> I would really appreciate it if you can clear out this topic for me.


松树，柏树，松柏有什么区别？_百度知道
This is an answer in Chinese.
It says 松柏 is 松.


----------



## Romeo4755

Litred said:


> 松树，柏树，松柏有什么区别？_百度知道
> This is an answer in Chinese.
> It says 松柏 is 松.


Of course, I have looked through Baidu before asking here! However, there are lots of contradictory explanations on the net so I prefer real people's opinion.



GunKneeNeon said:


> Chinese is more of a poetic language, it is not as logical as English. Not only the language itself but also the mind of a native speaker. Expressions like 松柏 are perfectly normal in Chinese, which may seems odd for an English speaker and hence the difficulty in learning Chinese.


Nonono, it doesn't seem odd at all. Such generalizations actually are common in different languages, especially for plants and animals. ('weasel' in Eglish which can be an actual weasel, an ermine, a minx or such looking alike)


----------



## SuperXW

Romeo4755 said:


> Of course, I have looked through Baidu before asking here! However, there are lots of contradictory explanations on the net so I prefer real people's opinion.


Usually 百度知道 is the least reliable platform...


----------



## Romeo4755

SuperXW said:


> Usually 百度知道 is the least reliable platform...


To listen to actual opinions is always the best. Yes.


----------



## j29682896

yuechu said:


> (I hope it's ok if I ask this question here!)
> Is it true that 柏 is often (always?) pronounced bó in Taiwan?
> Thanks!


Yes. I think we always pronounce 柏 as bo2. I hadn't heard people pronouncing 柏 as bai3 before I went to Mainland China.
松柏
柏樹
張柏芝(the hk celebrity)
We pronounce all 柏 above as bo2.


----------



## yuechu

Thanks, j29682896!


----------

