# Swedish: Vad talar svenskar? Why without article?



## gvergara

Hi

I've just come across these two questions, 

_Vad talar svenskar?_
_Vad talar engelsmän?_

and I wonder why the plural has been used without the definite article ending (_Vad talar svenskar*na*?_)... Is it because in Swedish you also use the zero article (that is, no article) before nouns when these nouns refer to a whole group? Thanks in advance

Gonzalo


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## Dan2

Since you obviously know English well, note that in English also one says,
_What do Swedes speak?_
without an article, when one is speaking about a group in general rather than individuals that the speaker and listener share knowledge of.

_What do the Swedes speak?_
is also possible, and has the suggestion, "You and I know that there are Swedes out there; now what do they speak?"

For ex., suppose four friends, two Americans and two Swedes are visiting Norway.  You might ask, _about these individuals,_
_The Americans speak English to everyone - what do the Swedes speak?_
Here "the" is absolutely required.

And there's nothing special about your sample sentences:
_Dogs bark when they're hungry._ (General statement about dogs)
_The dogs bark when they're hungry._ (Statement about particular dogs that you and I know.)

Using vs omitting the definite article will not be identical in English and Swedish, and native speakers can give you more information and say whether my English examples carry over into Swedish, but since so many people approach Swedish already having a knowledge of English, and since there seems to be a basic similarity between the two languages in terms of when definiteness is indicated, I thought the above comments would be helpful.


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## Renaissance man

Good points, Dan2.

Maybe it's the unusual examples that confuse you, gvergara; it's not very idiomatic to say "vad talar svenskar? A more practical question would be "Vilket språk talar svenskar?"
Compare instead the following construction:
"Vad gör svenskar på sin fritid?" 

Swedish and English share many conventions when it comes to the definite article, but differ on many areas as well, and we'll discuss those cases should the need arise


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## Mårran

Would it still be the same if you addressed the question to an individual who belongs to that group?

For example if I'm speaking to a Swede, should I still use the indefinite form:
_I Finland äter man memma till påsk. Vad äter svenskar/svenskarna till påsk? (=Vad äter ni till påsk?)_


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## AutumnOwl

Mårran said:


> Would it still be the same if you addressed the question to an individual who belongs to that group?
> 
> For example if I'm speaking to a Swede, should I still use the indefinite form:
> _I Finland äter man memma till påsk. Vad äter svenskar/svenskarna till påsk? (=Vad äter ni till påsk?)_


It would be _svenskar_, as the question could be phrased as_ Vad äter ni svenskar till påsk?_


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## gvergara

I'd like to take advantage of this open thread and ask you if there is an explanation (other than sheer usage) for the absence of article in the following cases

_Sten ville hälsa på formor_. (Are family names used without it?)
_Vi har en lägenhet i centrum _(Is it because of the _um ending?)

Thanks in advance, 

Gonzalo


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## Renaissance man

It's the same in English, Gvergara. Compare:
"Sten wanted to visit grandmother" = it is also the speaker's grandmother.
"Sten wanted to visit his grandmother" = the speaker is not related.

_Centrum _in the general sense of "city center" normally doesn't take any articles. I can't think of a good explanation; some words just function this way. Compare the English "he's in school" - no articles here either.


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## cocuyo

I think most of the confusion comes from the practice in Spanish to almost always use an article in these sentences. It might be noted that they are a bit "made up", and that colloquially we might not use the word svenskar/svenskarna, but rather say something like "Vad äter man till påsk i Sverige?" (analogous with "I Finland äter man memma till påsk."). On the other hand, in Spanish, one might use "los suecos", and the confusion then might stem from trying to find a literal translation, which is not what translation is about.


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## Tjahzi

In addition to what has already been said, I'd like to add that _svenskar äter_ has the meaning of _Swedes in general tend to eat _while _svenskarna äter_ is more inclusive, giving the impression of that really _all_ Swedes eat something.


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