# I'm buying a brand new car



## Ecilam

How do you say "I'm buying a brand new car." in Russian?


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## Goddaughter

Generally, it would be "Я покупаю новую машину." 
But if you want to lay stress on "brand new", you can say "Я покупаю _совершенно/абсолютно новую_ машину."


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## Ptak

I'd say "Я покупаю *новенькую* машину".


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## marmotte-frangita

I`d say "Я покупаю новую крутую машину", where "крутая" means "cool", or "brand", in original version. You can even say "брендовая одежда" for ex., about clothes, but about cars...you`d better say "крутой", "классный", if a little familiar connotation is not prohibited in this case.


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## Q-cumber

marmotte-frangita said:


> I`d say "Я покупаю новую крутую машину", where "крутая" means "cool", or "brand", in original version. You can even say "брендовая одежда" for ex., about clothes, but about cars...you`d better say "крутой", "классный", if a little familiar connotation is not prohibited in this case.



There wasn't a word about "брендовая" or "крутая" in the initial question. "Brand new" means *"completely new"* (совершенно новый). 

To *Ecilam*
IMHO, the *Ptak*'s variant is the best so far:


> "Я покупаю новенькую машину".


There is also an idiomatic expression in Russian - "с иголочки" <"from a needle">. One might say:
 "Я покупаю новую, с иголочки, машину"


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## Kolan

Q-cumber said:


> There wasn't a word about "брендовая" or "крутая" in the initial question. "Brand new" means *"completely new"* (совершенно новый).


While it may be true in most cases, buying certain kinds of new goods, esp. luxury ones, may also convey a meaning of something *classy*.


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## Q-cumber

Kolan said:


> While it may be true in most cases, buying certain kinds of new goods, esp. luxury ones, may also convey a meaning of something *classy*.


Right, as far as we talk about stand-alone word - "brand" (...of the best brand, etc. ). Although the expression "brand new" itself definitely involves a meaning of something "classy" (in contradistinction to "used", "pre-owned", etc.), it could be equally applied either to a new Hyundai or to a new BMW. Don't you think so?


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## marmotte-frangita

Q-cumber said:


> There wasn't a word about "брендовая" or "крутая" in the initial question. "Brand new" means *"completely new"* (совершенно новый).
> 
> To *Ecilam*
> IMHO, the *Ptak*'s variant is the best so far:
> 
> There is also an idiomatic expression in Russian - "с иголочки" <"from a needle">. One might say:
> "Я покупаю новую, с иголочки, машину"




Mmmm.. we both can be right, *it depends on the CONTEXT*. But in general the word *"brand"* has a connotation of some *luxury, *high class etc. And then, if you underline here the fact that you are going to buy a *completely new car,*- for me it means that normally you are used to buy second-hand ones!! So, see the context...


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## marmotte-frangita

Q-cumber said:


> There wasn't a word about "брендовая" or "крутая" in the initial question. "Brand new" means *"completely new"* (совершенно новый).
> 
> To *Ecilam*
> IMHO, the *Ptak*'s variant is the best so far:
> 
> There is also an idiomatic expression in Russian - "с иголочки" <"from a needle">. One might say:
> "Я покупаю новую, с иголочки, машину"



P.S.  "Машина с иголочки", it`s not going on I`m afraid! Speaking about hte clothes, it would be nice :"костюм с иголочки".But if you say it about your car...you can try, but It`s quite funny to my mind.


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## Kolan

marmotte-frangita said:


> But in general the word *"brand"* has a connotation of some *luxury, *high class etc.


Not in general, it is rather exceptional or pertinent to certain goods only. E.g., you can buy a *brand new printer cartridge *among other office supplies, which means not only that it is 100% full of ink, but also that it is recommended by the printer manufacturer, not third-party made. But *brand* is not substitute for *branded*, which has that only connotation.

But if a product has been refurbished by its original manufacturer, although it is identifiable as brand (*branded*), it is sold with a lesser warranty and may bear small traces of previous usage, and, therefore, cannot be brand new.


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## Goddaughter

> we both can be right, it depends on the CONTEXT


You're mistaken. You can't seperate 'brand' and translate it as you wish. There was 'brand new', a common set-phrase, and *Q-cumber's* remark is absolutely right.
It's not about luxury at all, because you can buy a cheap car, but not secondhand, and it would be brand new as well.


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## Kolan

Goddaughter said:


> It's not about luxury at all, because you can buy a cheap car, but not secondhand, and it would be brand new as well.


It just because virtually all cars are branded anyway. But if you furhter look into car parts, you will see that there is a lot of _jobber_ as opposed to _branded_ manufacture. And a new piece of unknown origin (which looks like unused) cannot be brand new, just because no one can prove that it is a new one. It is a tight play of words and senses.


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## marmotte-frangita

Kolan said:


> Not in general, it is rather exceptional or pertinent to certain goods only. E.g., you can buy a *brand new printer cartridge *among other office supplies, which means not only that it is 100% full of ink, but also that it is recommended by the printer manufacturer, not third-party made. But *brand* is not substitute for *branded*, which has that only connotation.




Thank you, but your remark shows at the same time that "brand" has in any case some high quality connotation:"recommended by the printer manufacturer, not third-party made"*, *"not only new".Quality,class, luxury by extension. But in this case, I agree that we can`t translate the words of this expression separately (thanks to Godddaughter), wich means that "*новенький, cовершенно новый*" (but only not 'с иголочки", I think) seems to be the best version to my mind.


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## Goddaughter

Sorry, but I strongly believe that 'brand new' isn't actually connected with high class and quality. The meaning simply is 'absolutely new and unused". 
It can easily be not prestigious or turn out to be of a bad quality.
You're speaking about brands as something cool and luxurious, but brand is just a trademark, and they are various: prestigious or not, expensive or not. 
So, 'brand new'~'new' and hasn't any high-class connotation.

Well, it's my personal opinion, and if you wish, we can look it up in the dictionary or ask a native speaker, but I'd be really surprised if I'm wrong.


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## Kolan

Goddaughter said:


> Sorry, but I strongly believe that 'brand new' isn't actually connected with high class and quality. The meaning simply is 'absolutely new and unused".
> It can easily be not prestigious or turn out to be of a bad quality.
> You're speaking about brands as something cool and luxurious, but brand is just a trademark, and they are various: prestigious or not, expensive or not.
> So, 'brand new'~'new' and hasn't any high-class connotation.


Only a brand name, identifiable on merchandise, can prove that it is new (if it is, indeed, new as it supposed to be, unless it is said "refurbished"). Non-branded goods, in spite of their quasiperfect new look, can be counterfeit (i.e., pillows or toys made with reconditioned stuffing), which might normally apply to a low-end market only. Since no one can exclude such a scenario, *brand new* may not apply universally to all types of goods, especially talking about lower end.


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## marmotte-frangita

Sure, I do think so and I think that the best translation is "новенький". I do agree that *in this case* we have to translate *a common set-phrase "brand new" really as "very new"*. But consulting the dictionaries, I saw that the first and principal meaning is "mark", "brand". To my mind, it involves some quality connotations meanings in any case, but it`s also only my opinion. But, I underline, *it seems true if this word isn`t connected with other words in some set-phrase* like in our dear phrase. Thank you!


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## Goddaughter

> Only a brand name, identifiable on merchandise, can prove that it is new


I should admit that there's something in your words. And, after all, I don't want to argue. My point of view is developed above


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## Kolan

Goddaughter said:


> I should admit that there's something in your words. And, after all, I don't want to argue. My point of view is developed above


*Brand new* would rather mean "*guaranteed that it is new*". (sure it's new)

In order to render the same sense in Russian, you can also say "*заведомо новый*".


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## marmotte-frangita

Kolan said:


> *Brand new* would rather mean "*guaranteed that it is new*". (sure it's new)
> 
> In order to render the same sense in Russian, you can also say "*заведомо новый*".




That`s right, but can you imagine some transalion like"я покупаю заведомо новую машину"?!!


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## Kolan

marmotte-frangita said:


> That`s right, but can you imagine some transalion like"я покупаю заведомо новую машину"?!!


It does not make sense, because cars are branded goods anyway. But you can say, translating* brand new*, "купил *заведомо новые* мягкие игрушки (_или_ батарейки)".


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## Ptak

Kolan said:


> But you can say, translating* brand new*, "купил *заведомо новые* мягкие игрушки (_или_ батарейки)".


That sounds unnatural as well as "покупаю заведомо новую машину".



> can you imagine some transalion like"я покупаю заведомо новую машину"?!!
> 
> 
> 
> It does not make sense, because cars are branded goods anyway.
Click to expand...

How about second-hand cars? In Russian it's "подержанные машины".
"Я покупаю заведомо новую машину" _does_ make sense, but sounds strange.


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## marmotte-frangita

"Я покупаю заведомо новую машину" _does_ make sense,* but sounds strange.

*You are perfectly right, to my mind


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## Q-cumber

Ptak said:


> "Я покупаю заведомо новую машину" _does_ make sense, but sounds strange.



In my opinion, this neither makes any sense,  nor sounds natural.  And I wonder why should we invent such an ugly word constructions, while answering such a simple and question.

 "...купил заведомо новые и заведомо мягкие  несомненно игрушки...".  cross


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## marmotte-frangita

Q-cumber said:


> In my opinion, this neither makes any sense,  nor sounds natural.  And I wonder why should we invent such an ugly word constructions, while answering such a simple and question.
> 
> "...купил заведомо новые и заведомо мягкие  несомненно игрушки...".  cross




заведомо, it sounds strange and may be makes a sense but a bit strange one...which can be justified onle by some particular context may be...It`s clear that if you say "new", it`s new in any case, "заведомо" new!!! In linguistics it`s called pleonasm, isn`t it? But to add some quality and emotional connotation, we can surele say "новенький". So see the beginning of our endless discussion!


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## Ptak

Q-cumber said:


> In my opinion, this neither makes any sense,  nor sounds natural.


Well, I meant that it makes sense _technically, from the grammatical point of view_. But, as I said above, the phrase sounds quite unnatural to me also.


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## Kolan

marmotte-frangita said:


> заведомо, it sounds strange and may be makes a sense but a bit strange one...which can be justified onle by some particular context may be...It`s clear that if you say "new", it`s new in any case, "заведомо" new!!! In linguistics it`s called pleonasm, isn`t it? But to add some quality and emotional connotation, we can surele say "новенький". So see the beginning of our endless discussion!


It is not pleonasm, not even emotional connotation. *Заведомо* means that one can *guarantee 100%* that the thing has never been used or seen before. which not so obvious in the case of non-branded goods. The best translation to English would be exactly *brand new*. (The reverse tanslation, *brand new* to Russian, is not, however, well-defined)

Устройство оперативного контроля http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache...st041.doc+"заведомо+новые"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7
Применяйте *заведомо новые* батареи. 2. Проверка работоспособности. 2.1. Перед проверкой работоспособности ознакомьтесь с п.2.1 главы "эксплуатация" *...*
 www.profinfo.ru/biblio/st041.doc

C. e.g.,  *заведомо старые/поношенные* (вещи)
Как правильно выбрать компьютер или купить ноутбук?  - 
Специалисты говорят: «все мы покупаем *заведомо старые**...*
 компьютеры». Этот факт просто объясняется тем, что срок морального устаревания компьютерного  www.masterssl.com/buycomp.htm


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## Kolan

q-cumber said:


> in my opinion, this neither makes any sense, nor sounds natural.  and i wonder why should we invent such an ugly word constructions, while answering such a simple and question.
> 
> "...купил заведомо новые и заведомо мягкие несомненно игрушки...". :d cross


Я не знаю, замечали ли вы, что написано на этикетках мягких игрушек и прочего набивного товара (подушки, бюстгальтеры и пр.)?

There should be only new “material” in a padded bra « Smaller than *...*
*...* requires all upholstered articles such as bras and shoulder pads to bear a label stating the items are filled with “*new material only*.” *...*
kalyanaraga.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/there-should-be-only-new-material-in-a-padded-bra/ - 23k

Это, как говорится, чтобы почувствовать разницу между "*совершенно новый*" и "*гарантированно новый*".


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## marmotte-frangita

Kolan said:


> It is not pleonasm, not even emotional connotation. *Заведомо* means that one can *guarantee 100%* that the thing has never been used or seen before. which not so obvious in the case of non-branded goods. The best translation to English would be exactly *brand new*. (The reverse tanslation, *brand new* to Russian, is not, however, well-defined)
> 
> 
> Well when you speak about such things as computers and batteries, it`s not a pleonasm but a kind of a justified specification because these things could be easily *"remade" new* . But dear Kolan, we are speaking about cars...see the contex please. And in this case it`s a pleonasm ("заведомо") because you specifie the things which seem already quite evident (новый автомобиль уже собственно новый, это не батарейка и не компьютер). Sorry, but if you really think that you can say "заведомо новый автомобиль" in Russian without any particular reasons and do find that it sounds good ...ok, I do not want to quarrel, - it`s only my opinion.
> 
> P.S. I have never said that "brand new" has some emotional connotation in English (read my messages more closely please). I said that in Russian a translation like "новенький" has obviosly some emotional connotation like all the suffixes "еньк-, оньк" (in fact we were speaking about translation to Russian, not to English). Thank you!


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## Ptak

> Я не знаю, замечали ли вы, что написано на этикетках мягких игрушек


Язык инструкций и этикеток - это не то же самое, что живой разговорный язык. К счастью, люди в жизни не разговаривают языком этикеток. Можно найти хоть сто ссылок в интернете с "подходящими" примерами, но в жизни человек не скажет другу "у меня дела идут отлично, зарплату повысили, покупаю *заведомо новую* машину, сын в школу пошел..."


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## marmotte-frangita

Ptak said:


> Язык инструкций и этикеток - это не то же самое, что живой разговорный язык. К счастью, люди в жизни не разговаривают языком этикеток. Можно найти хоть сто ссылок в интернете с "подходящими" примерами, но в жизни человек не скажет другу "у меня дела идут отлично, зарплату повысили, покупаю *заведомо новую* машину, сын в школу пошел..."



Bravo, Ptak, you have set the record straight.


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## Kolan

marmotte-frangita said:


> Well when you speak about such things as computers and batteries, it`s not a pleonasm but a kind of a justified specification because these things could be easily *"remade" new* .


Not only *refurbished* (may not apply to batteries, unless they are rechargeable), but rather *unbranded*, therefore, less certain quality wise, even though they may be straight out of the box. *Unbranded* goods are commonly cheaper, as well, just because their quality standards are less defined (and, usually, lower) in the consumer's eyes. If you are replacing batteries with the *brand new* ones, let's say, in your walkman player which stopped working, and it still does not work after that, than something would be wrong with the player itself. But you can't come to the same conclusion with the same level of confidence if you just have tried *unbranded* new cells out of the package, there would be still a shadow of doubt, are they good indeed or not.


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## Kolan

marmotte-frangita said:


> And in this case it`s a pleonasm ("заведомо") because you specifie the things which seem already quite evident (новый автомобиль уже собственно новый, это не батарейка и не компьютер). Sorry, but if you really think that you can say "заведомо новый автомобиль" in Russian without any particular reasons and do find that it sounds good ...ok, I do not want to quarrel, - it`s only my opinion.


Here you are arguing with yourself since I have never said that. "Заведомо новые" does not apply to cars just because virtually all cars are branded.


Kolan said:


> It does not make sense, because cars are branded goods anyway. But you can say, translating* brand new*, "купил *заведомо новые* мягкие игрушки (_или_ батарейки)".


It states that the entire notion of *brand new* stuff is not that clear and consistent.


marmotte-frangita said:


> P.S. I have never said that "brand new" has some emotional connotation in English (read my messages more closely please). I said that in Russian a translation like "новенький" has obviosly some emotional connotation like all the suffixes "еньк-, оньк" (in fact we were speaking about translation to Russian, not to English). Thank you!


I read carefully what my opponents write.


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## Ecilam

alright. thank you all


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## Q-cumber

Kolan said:


> It is not pleonasm, not even emotional connotation. *Заведомо* means that one can *guarantee 100%* that the thing has never been used or seen before.



Not exactly. *Заведомо* in the context might mean that one is aware of the fact the car is new. As a matter of fact, the phrase makes no sense to me at all.   



> Применяйте заведомо новые батареи.



Make sure the batteries you use are new. An empty battery might look like a new one.



> Заведомо ложное сообщение о терроризме схоже с составом заведомо ложного доноса (ст. 296 УК АР). В обоих составах имеет место *заведомость*, т.е. лицо сознает, что его сообщение не соответствует действительности.


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