# FR: I doubt he would do that



## Jacques818

Bonsoir tout le monde! J'ai une petite question à propos des verbes qui prennent le subjonctif. Est-il possible qu'ils puissent prendre un autre temps comme le conditionnel par exemple dans la phrase: "I doubt he would do that"--"Je doute qu'il ferait ça" est-ce qu'une traduction comme ça marcherait? J'apprécie vos réponses!


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## melu85

Non, ça ne marcherait pas. Je doute que + subj.


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## geostan

melu85 said:


> Non, ça ne marcherait pas. Je doute que + subj.



Pas d'accord. La phrase avec le conditionnel est tout à fait acceptable.


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## Calamitintin

Hmmm...ça sonne faux quand même.


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## geostan

Calamitintin said:


> Hmmm...ça sonne faux quand même.



Alors, comment corriger(?) cette phrase:

_Je doute que tu ferais cela si tu étais à sa place._


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## brian

_Je ne pense pas que tu..._


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## Grop

Comme Brian a suggéré, j'utiliserais une négation (_je ne crois pas_ ou _je ne pense pas_) et le conditionnel.

La phrase de Geostan ne me semble pas naturelle (même si je ne vois aucune *raison* pour que _douter_ et _ne pas croire_ soient différents).


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## newg

En effet, "je doute + conditionnel" sonne faux.

_Je doute qu'il ait fait ça_
_Je doute qu'il le fasse_
_Je ne doute pas qu'il puisse le faire_
_Je doute qu'il puisse le faire_


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## brian

Ou bien: _ça m'étonnerait que tu..._ + subj.

Mais attention: il y a une grande différence entre _I doubt he *would* do that_ et _I doubt he *did* that_.

_I doubt he did that = Je doute qu'il ait fait ça.
I doubt he would do that = Je ne pense (crois) pas qu'il ferait ça / ça m'étonnerait qu'il fasse ça.
_


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## geostan

Si le verbe _douter_ était au passé, je serais d'accord.

_Je doutais que tu fasses cela_. Mais pas si le verbe est au présent:


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## Chimel

Hanse (Dictionnaire des difficultés du français) dit:
"On trouve parfois le conditionnel [avec douter], surtout pour un fait futur éventuel: _Je vous qu'ils vous laisseraient faire ce que vous voulez_. Mieux vaut l'éviter."


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## Moon Palace

I'm afraid _douter_ when used in an assertion can only be used with a subjunctive. It can be used with the indicative mode if it is with a negation. See what Reverso says, it is clear I believe.


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## geostan

Moon Palace said:


> I'm afraid _douter_ when used in an assertion can only be used with a subjunctive. It can be used with the indicative mode if it is with a negation. See what Reverso says, it is clear I believe.



If that is so, then how would you express the following two sentences in French?

I doubt that you will like it there.
I doubt that you would like it there.

Both are perfectly correct English sentences, but I cannot believe that French would use the same sentence (i.e. with a subjunctive) to express both of them.


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## brian

Hi geostan,

Did you see my post #9?

The fact is that _to doubt_ in English has more meanings than _douter_ in French. Not only can it mean "to be uncertain" or "to be skeptical," but in English it can have the stronger meaning of "to think...not," and _douter_, as far as I know, does not have this meaning.

Perhaps a better way to think of it (though it really depends on context) is:

_to doubt *whether* = douter que_ (+ subj.)
_to doubt *that* = ne pas penser/croire que_

Edit: I'll try to put it more explicitly:

_I have my doubts that he did that _("I'm not sure, but I think it's quite possible he didn't do it") = _Je doute qu'il ait fait ça.
I doubt he did it_ ("I don't think he did it, I'm quite confident he didn't do it") = _Je ne crois pas qu'il ait fait ça._


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## Moon Palace

geostan said:


> I doubt that you will like it there. _Je ne crois pas que tu vas aimer cet endroit / je ne suis pas sûre que tu aimes cet endroit / je doute que tu aimes cet endroit (_subjunctive in the last two sentences, to express doubt)
> I doubt that you would like it there. _Ce serait étonnant que tu aimes cet endroit ( _stolen from Brian's post #9 ), if you wish to keep a conditional. You could also say though : _je doute que tu aimes cet endroit (_subjunctive again, to reinforce the idea of doubt, and thereby convey the distance from the reality that is contained in the English conditional).
> 
> Both are perfectly correct English sentences, but I cannot believe that French would use the same sentence (i.e. with a subjunctive) to express both of them.



Sorry if this is difficult to grasp , but _douter _cannot be used with an indicative mood unless it is used in a negative sentence, and then you would have to say : _je ne doute pas que tu détesterais cet endroit. _


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## geostan

Moon Palace said:


> Sorry if this is difficult to grasp , but _douter _cannot be used with an indicative mood unless it is used in a negative sentence, and then you would have to say : _je ne doute pas que tu détesterais cet endroit. _



It's not difficult to grasp. I simply do not agree with you. 

Here is a note I found on a University linguistics site dealing specifically with an examination of the indicative-subjunctive question.

_*Douter que*
L'emploi de *douter que* implique normalement que le fait de la subordonnée est présenté comme moins que probable. Cette expression se construit donc régulièrement avec le subjonctif:
Je *doute* que ce *soit* vrai

​ Il va sans dire que cette situation ne se présente que si la subordonnée 'dépend' directement de la principale. Elle ne se présente donc pas dans un exemple comme:
Je doute qu'elle *ferait* cela si on insistait
​  Dans cette phrase, faire cela ne dépend pas directement de la principale, mais de si on insistait. Le mode approprié n'est donc pas le subjonctif, mais le conditionnel!! (Même au cas où la condition ne serait pas mentionnée explicitement, mais seulement suggéré par le contexte, le conditionnel serait la forme appropriée).

_I did not have any difficulty finding examples of  a present form of _douter_ followed by que and the conditional. You may argue that one cannot rely on the Internet for linguistic accuracy, but the very fact that I was able to find the examples convinces me that it is not all that uncommon.

Nor do I accept Brian8733's notion that the English verb has a wider range of meanings than its French counterpart. When followed by a subordinate clause beginning with _that_, its meaning in both languages is:  _to be inclined not to believe or accept : consider unlikely or improbable. _And whether you choose to express it with_ ne pas croire or douter,_ the sequence of tenses present + conditional is not natural (the future being the usual one). I believe this is as true in French is in English.

I can say no more on the subject.


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## Moon Palace

Hello Geostan, 

I must admit that I have to shade what I said, because I have found out that an indicative mood can *on rare occasions* (and in the circumstances explained below) be used. Yet, I wouldn't tell learners of French as a foreign language that it is not uncommon, because this is not accurate. The very fact that in spite of my studies in grammar I had forgotten altogether about this and was earnestly convinced it could be used only with a subjunctive should be evidence that it is not common at all. 

So here is what says Grevisse: 





> _ Douter_... suivi de que et employé affirmativement, *veut le subjonctif*, mais admet aussi l'indicatif lorsqu'on veut insister sur la réalité du fait.
> Ex: _Je doute fort que cela soit / Je ne doute pas qu'il fera tout ce qu'il pourra. _


As you can see, the only examples provided by Grevisse are in the negative, which tends to reinforce what I had said previously, and which is quite logical: if you reinforce the realistic aspect of what follows _douter_, how can you doubt about it? The subjunctive mood is clearly associated to uncertainty, if the doubt is negated, then of course we may consider the indicative mood. Since in this case, _I doubt_ would not mean _I have doubts about _but rather _I think / I believe_ as Brian suggested.


Edit: *An attempt to recapitulate?*
I have been thinking of a way to make things clearer and take into account your example, and here is what I suggest: 
- if _'je doute que'_ is to mean _'je ne crois pas que'_, then we would use an indicative mood as in your example, but context will need to justify this (i.e. with a subordinate clause as you have shown, be it explicit or implicit). Because in this case, the meaning is not that of a lack of certainty, but a high likelihood, as in _I believe / je crois. _
- if _'je doute que' _is to mean _'je ne suis pas sûr que'_ / _j'ai bien peur qu'il ne... _, then the subjunctive mood is absolutely required because the meaning here is a lack of certainty, which is inherent to the subjunctive mood. (example here: _je doute qu'il pleuve = je ne suis pas sûr qu'il pleuve / j'ai bien peur qu'il ne pleuve pas). _

Could we agree on this summary?


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