# Urdu: baker, bakery



## Alfaaz

*Background:* Recently, in the threads Urdu: four letter Arabic words tashdeed on second letter and Arabic: four letter words with tashdeed on the second letter , forum members provided words for baker in an Arabic context.


			
				UrduMedium said:
			
		

> xabbaaz: baker (not used in Urdu though)





			
				barkoosh said:
			
		

> خَبّاز baker


خباز and مخمر  are listed in Platts, but not in any of the other online dictionaries (many don't even have entries for bakery): Here and Here. UrduEnglishDictionary lists طبّاخ ۔ نانبائی ۔ روٹی پَکانے والا ۔ for Baker.

*Question:* Which words would be appropriate to use for baker and bakery? Is مخبز  used for bakery or could it be borrowed from Arabic like the other terms?


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## marrish

My attempt at responding leaves room for different answers - yes, we can or rather have borrowed this word just as it happens with other terms this time from English. Millions of bread-eaters have been using this word for long enough to make it a part of the living language indicating that other options enjoy more eternal life.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:* Recently, in the threads Urdu: four letter Arabic words tashdeed on second letter and Arabic: four letter words with tashdeed on the second letter , forum members provided words for baker in an Arabic context.
> 
> 
> خباز and مخمر  are listed in Platts, but not in any of the other online dictionaries (many don't even have entries for bakery): Here and Here. UrduEnglishDictionary lists طبّاخ ۔ نانبائی ۔ روٹی پَکانے والا ۔ for Baker.
> 
> *Question:* Which words would be appropriate to use for baker and bakery? Is مخبز  used for bakery or could it be borrowed from Arabic like the other terms?



 A tabbaax is more a cook than a baker. I remember a sentence from my Arabic learning book.

3indanaa tabbaaxah tatbux lanaa_tta3aam

We have a cook (f) who cooks for us the food.

Traditionally, the word for a baker in Urdu has been "naan-baa'ii". Platts also gives "naan-paz" for a baker (bread-cooker). From this a bakery would be "naan-paz xaanah"


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Traditionally, the word for a baker in Urdu has been "naan-baa'ii". Platts also gives "naan-paz" for a baker (bread-cooker). From this a bakery would be "naan-paz xaanah"


Maybe off-topic, in Persian it is naan-vaa'ii, the form which Platts acknowledges as well. One Persian online source suggests shiiriin-pazii - bakery in the sense of 'patisserie' or Halvaa'ii kii dukaan.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Maybe off-topic, in Persian it is naan-vaa'ii, the form which Platts acknowledges as well. One Persian online source suggests shiiriin-pazii - bakery in the sense of 'patisserie' or Halvaa'ii kii dukaan.



Both forms are given by Steingass. You can see the difference in meaning.

نان بائی _nān-bāʼī, A *baker*, bread-seller (either mansūb of nān-bā "broth with crumbs," while bakers mostly sell this also, or bāʼi standing for A. bāʻi "seller").

نانوا nān-wā, A baker; food made of bread.

نانوائی nānwāʼī, Art of baking bread; baking;--dukāni nānwāʼī, A baker's shop._


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## marrish

There is a difference in meaning, indeed, and thank you for summing it up. I was actually addressing 'bakery' only.


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## panjabigator

I'm curious if anyone ever hears "naan paz" in use.


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## marrish

panjabigator said:


> I'm curious if anyone ever hears "naan paz" in use.


Maybe someone can confirm it is in use because I am familiar with this but for my part I can say it is not used in colloquial language, maybe in writing (possibly the reason of familiarity).


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> I'm curious if anyone ever hears "naan paz" in use.


 Not in our Urdu! We say نانبائی naan-baa'ii for a baker!



QURESHPOR said:


> A tabbaax is more a cook than a baker. I remember a sentence from my Arabic learning book.
> 
> 3indanaa tabbaaxah tatbux lanaa_tta3aam <- _I remember this well from the Linguaphone course! _
> 
> We have a cook (f) who cooks for us the food.
> 
> Traditionally, the word for a baker in Urdu has been "naan-baa'ii".  Platts also gives "naan-paz" for a baker (bread-cooker). From this a  bakery would be "naan-paz xaanah"


 I agree _Tabbaax_ is a cook, not a baker! We of course use the Persian-Turkish باورچي  _baawar-chii_ most often, and the Arabic طبّاخ _Tabbaax_ rarely for a cook, and never a baker!


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## panjabigator

While we're on the topic, what about خانساماں? Does that intersect here at all, or is that just the cook?


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for all your helpful replies! I guess I shouldn't have included the entry from UED with tabbaakh, as it seems to have become a distraction and one of my main questions didn't seemed to get noticed (probably): 


> خباز and مخمر are listed in Platts
> ..............
> Is مخبز used for bakery or could it be borrowed from Arabic like the other terms?


(Note: Don't have anything against naanbaa'ii or "baker/bakery", but the former seems to bring "naan" to mind....and not all the other delicious things found at a bakery.....while the latter English borrowed words seem a bit out of place (not in names which are very Western/English) but in bakery names which are very grand/poetic Urdu and then abruptly and unexpectedly end with بیکرّی "bakery")


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## BP.

panjabigator said:


> While we're on the topic, what about خانساماں? Does that intersect here at all, or is that just the cook?


xaansaamaaN is xaan e saamaan, the inventory in-charge.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> (Note: Don't have anything against naanbaa'ii or "baker/bakery", but the former seems to bring "naan" to mind....and not all the other delicious things found at a bakery.....while the latter English borrowed words seem a bit out of place (not in names which are very Western/English) but in bakery names which are very grand/poetic Urdu and then abruptly and unexpectedly end with بیکرّی "bakery")



"bekrii" is used in Urdu. maxbaz would be fine too as we have a number of place names on "maf3il" (masjid) and "maf3al" (maHbas/prison) patterns.


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## Alfaaz

> "bekrii" is used in Urdu. maxbaz would be fine too as we have a number of place names on "maf3il" (masjid) and "maf3al" (maHbas/prison) patterns.


Thanks for the reply! Yes, bakery is used in Urdu (not denying that) and as I said previously, I didn't mean to sound against its use.


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> xaansaamaaN is xaan e saamaan, the inventory in-charge.


 Indeed that is what _xaansaamaaN_ is, as you say, _xaan e saamaan_. Although this is very commonly used to mean a _baawarchii_ (=cook)! I suspect this may have been a result of a euphemism, perhaps because a _xaan e saamaan_ had a higher status than a _baawarchii _and in polite speech the latter came to be addressed by the former title.


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## Sheikh_14

I believe alongside Bakery and its Urdu adaptations, Maxbaz would do well. Whilst some may have qualms with it as migration to and from the Arab World is on the rise this term will catch on and others too which over the years had been on the decline. I rather like the fact that Urdu speaks so highly of the Halwaii that it is referred to as his/her shop rather than the shop of confectioneries which is amusing and the general modus operandi. Nevertheless, for a patisserie what would the Urdu alternative/s be? Moreover could halwiyaat be a synonym to Mitaiyaa i.e. a plural for sweet or would it be highly specific in Urdu as a plural for Halwas?


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## marrish

Let's stay on topic which is *bakery*. I already expressed my opinion two years ago about "bakery" and "patisserie". _miThaa'iyaaN_ is not something to be discussed here. There must be a previous thread on this topic which would be a just place for your last question.


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