# queue/waiting line etiquette



## cfu507

Hi,

Say you go into a bank and there are other people waiting in the queue. You will have to wait about an hour for your turn. Is it usual in your country to ask the person who is last in line to 'save your place' in the queue, leave the bank and come back half an hour later, for example? How would you react if someone came into a bank and did this and what would you think of him?

* The bank was just an example; the same question could be about waiting in a pharmacy, for example.

Edit: With the kind permission of cfu507, related subjects, namely the overall behaviour when on queue and the underlying reasons for such behaviour as perceived by the people of the related culture can be discussed


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## dg_spain

No, not acceptable to me! If I am elsewhere, I would just watch and see if someone in the line agreed to accept it, but I would not like it. I have seen this done in Spain on a smaller scale (e.g. waiting in a line for hours to get papers) where someone will say they are going to get coffee and returns in half an hour, but that was when everyone around them knew there were at least another 1-2 hours more before they would be attended, and the person who went for coffee had gotten up and arrived early like everyone else. The feelings this causes seem to be linked to the amount of effort of the person taking the "break" and the effort of those who do not.


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## Meeracat

Queuing is so embedded in British culture that it is almost a social institution. There is despair and disdain at the (perceived) failure of other cultures to use the unwritten rules of queing. You might ask someone to 'save your place' if you had to go quickly and get a pen from the bank desk for example, however, this will almost certainly cause psychological stress to the poor (british) person given this onerous responsibility, who will be thinking that others will subsequently blame him/her for apparently allowing someone to 'jump the queue' later on. To save a place for a longer period would create enormous pressure. The poor guardian will be constantly looking for the return so that the tension can be resolved.


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## ireney

No way! I can assure you that there wouldn't be many Greeks (in fact they are so few that a generalisation such as "none" could _almost_ be used in this case) who would accept! It would make them feel like fools if they did (why should they stay waiting while you don't?).
Darting somewhere for a minute or two is generally considered OK especially if you don't leave the building and after, of course, you notify the person in front of you (and the person behind if there is one.)

Even special categories don't get to leave altogether. Old people, pregnant women and other persons who, for obvious reasons, cannot stand in line for too long, can ask the person in front of them or after them to hold their place while they go and sit in a chair to wait. Greeks _always_  oblige in such a case but only if the other person just sits on a chair  and doesn't leave.

Note that we queue only when we have to (in other words we are forced to) . While, as far as I know, most British people will queue sort of automatically if more than 2 people are waiting for something, the best Greeks can do is a formless semi-queue that instantly dissolves if i.e. the bus arrives.


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## Meeracat

One rule of british queuing is not to speak to anyone else in the queue unless it is a) to complain how long this is all taking, or b) how terrible the weather is. The most horrific thing is to find yourself in a queue with an American _(pace_ all Americans - it's only sterile stereotyping) who will insists on telling you their whole life history. This puts unbearable pressure on poor Brits and should be discouraged.


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## cuchuflete

As we have no choice here but to speak in broad (inevitably flawed) generalities, I would say that Americans (1) form waiting lines (queues in BE) by instinct if not social training, (2) don't seem to mind if someone asks them to "hold my place" if it's for a minute or two, either for a reasonable stated cause, or even for an unstated one.  

It's impossible for me to react to the thread question about someone leaving the line/queue for a long time, as I've never seen that happen.

Merracat's polite stereotyping raises two interesting points, perhaps subjects for another thread.  First, it's generally correct.  The same thing has happened to me on long flights, and it's really aggravating.  I can't say if it's true for most Americans, as there are about 300 million of us, and I haven't yet had the opportunity to meet even 1% of them, but it is true for many of those I've encountered. The tendency to chatter seem more pronounced when people are "out of their natural element", such as on an airplane,_ or perhaps standing in a line in the UK?  

_The second point is the British custom of not speaking to anyone else in the queue.  This is neither good nor bad; it's a custom.  I wonder what caused it, why it persists, and if it's true for young people as much as for their parents.  When I've lived in large cities in the U.S. and lines for public transport were common and fairly long, I don't remember people talking to strangers, other than to ask, "Is this for bus/train number xx?"


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## Meeracat

I think that much of the implicit tension of queuing is about the tension between public and private space. The individual in the queue is in a public space claiming personal space and certain rights that go along with that. The silence, perhaps, is about shutting off that space from possible threat or challenge. Queuing is a democratic space that depends upon a shared understanding of the rules. It is a a metaphor for social order. That is why ireney's description of the queue dissolving on the arrival of the bus is so interesting. It doesn't suggest that the Greeks are less democratic but does invite further exploration about the Greek notion of social and private space.


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## ewie

Meeracat, I'm _really enjoying_ your disquisitions on _The Queueing Habits of the British ~ _you're obviously an authority on the subject and I can do no more than echo all that you've said.


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## Meeracat

Thanks ewie, I'm just an old anthropological hack who can't get out of the habit.


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## palomnik

As cuchuflete states, in the USA it's rare that anybody tolerates somebody leaving the line for more than a minute without a really good reason. Meeracat's comments on queueing being a British institution made me think of my days as a student back in the good old USSR, where queueing was also an "institution", or maybe "pastime" is a better word, since people frequently spent as much as half of their day standing in line to buy just about anything.

The interesting thing is that the institutional rules were different for Russians; people frequently asked the person behind them to hold their place in line, and then disappeared for a while - maybe a half hour or more. This was not considered exceptional, and was accepted.

I'm not too sure what the difference between the British and Russian psyche was in this matter, but I suspect in the case of Russians it was because when a person left one line it was usually so he/she could go and take a place in another line, or even several more lines, and everybody was aware of that.  What's more, it wasn't that easy to just slip out somewhere and have a cup of tea - it would involve waiting in another line if you did! - so you must have had a good reason of some sort.

It's been more than a few years since I've been back to Russia, and I hope that the waiting situation has improved.


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## alexacohen

It is not usual here. 
You may ask the person behind you to "save your place" if you need to go to the loo or something equally urgent.
Pregnant women, old people (_very _old), someone who needs a walking stick, someone with small children may ask the people behind them to "save their place" and then sit somewhere and wait for their turn comfortably? seated. They won't ever need to return to the queue. The person "saving their turn" will left the queue and advise them when the time comes. "You'd better come back, you're next". 

I don't understand the "moving to another queue" that you mention, Palomnik. Here the Law on Queuing states that if you ever move to another queue, the one that you left will move faster as soon as you leave. It is as exact as Maths, I'm afraid.


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## palomnik

alexacohen said:


> I don't understand the "moving to another queue" that you mention, Palomnik. Here the Law on Queuing states that if you ever move to another queue, the one that you left will move faster as soon as you leave. It is as exact as Maths, I'm afraid.


 
Alexa:  What I meant was that in fact the Russian standing in line would need to stand in several lines to purchase several different things.

For example:  I may need to purchase bread, sausage, potaotes and tea.  In the store where I shop, I need to stand in a different line to buy each of these things.  I will get on the bread line, ask the person behind me to save my place, and then go to the sausage line, where I will get in line, ask the person behind me to save my place, then go to the potato line, etc.

The whole procedure of standing in line was so stultifying in the old days that I can only hope it has disappeared along with other less desirable facets of the old regime.

The most egregious sort of thing I saw was at the bus station about 15 years ago in Ukraine.  There were three lines to get tickets:  one line for people on official business, one line for the disabled, wounded veterans and pregnant women, and one line for everybody else.  Guess which line had the most people.

But I digress.


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## alexacohen

Thanks for the clarification, Palomnik.


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## ireney

Meeracat said:


> I think that much of the implicit tension of queuing is about the tension between public and private space. The individual in the queue is in a public space claiming personal space and certain rights that go along with that. The silence, perhaps, is about shutting off that space from possible threat or challenge. Queuing is a democratic space that depends upon a shared understanding of the rules. It is a a metaphor for social order. That is why ireney's description of the queue dissolving on the arrival of the bus is so interesting. It doesn't suggest that the Greeks are less democratic but does invite further exploration about the Greek notion of social and private space.



Now that we've got cfu's kind permission to take the matter a little further (see the edit on the first post) I can answer with clear mod conscience 

First of all, and I won't elaborate on the subject since it has already been discussed elsewhere, Greeks understand "personal space" as the one a person currently occupies and maybe a few centimeters around that. When the notion of personal space is virtually non-existent (at least the way it is perceived by most of the western world) it is obvious that for social space we need to open a dictionary.

Now the thing is we are extremely impatient when it comes to waiting in line. The minute we see a line, whether of people or cars we start getting irritated (obviously such gross generalisation is bound to be wrong as such and has quite a few exceptions). That is of course no excuse really and the only thing I can say on our defence is that, apart from a few ones who try to jump the line in the general havoc created in the circumstances I described above, people very rarely will not acknowledge whose turn it is, to the point of often correcting the person who is ready to do business with them by telling him/her that it is not their turn.

And with this rather long phrase I end this rather long post.


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## PABLO DE SOTO

In Spanish supermarkets it is traditional to ask for permission to jump the queue if someone has only  one or two items to pay. People use to agree to let him/her through, but not always.
But now large supermarkets use to have a "caja rápida" quick cash, for customers with less than ten items.
Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?


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## mirx

I had to laugh when I saw the title of this thread, it looks like one of those stories that happened "to a friend of mine".

I haven't yet found a person in México with the courage to ask someone to save him a place for 2 hours!!!

It does happen a lot though, in public hospitals where many people have appointments at around the same time. If a person is the last in the list he may choose to go somewhere for a couple of hours but knowing that if he comes back after his turn, he then now will have to wait until the last person leaves.

It is somehow common to ask someone to save a place "just for a sec", that is less than 5 minutes.

Banks seems to be very democratic because is _*us*_ against _*them*_, so this kind of situations are not common.


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## Meeracat

It is good to be able to take the issue further (with permission). It would be difficult to really answer the first question otherwise. To answer ' What would you do. . .what would you think of him? would naturally raise the question why? Otherwise we would stay at only a descriptive answer, which is really only a first level of analysis A deeper level needs to ask: What is going on here? I stick by my view that queuing is a keyhole through which we can catch a glimpse of other cultural traits of a particular society. It is a way of indicating how people relate to each in other social circumstances. The hospital example of mirx is instructive. Here there is no queue but a waiting room, a more diffuse 'waiting space'; where people are 'distributed in space' in quite a different way. As a result a different set of social rules (or a variation) exists.


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## Sepia

I could not imagine anyone in Germany tolerating being kept waiting for an hour in the lineup in a bank. They would get loud and ask for the manager ... What good is a bank that doesn't have sufficient personel? I would not say I've changed banks for less important service flaws, but I have changed banks as a result of their lack of competence.

So I miss one important piece of information in this discussion: Some of you don't seem to be disturbed by the idea that this could happen. Why? Why would this happen? Why would you put up with that?


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## ewie

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?


Oh yes, Pablo, that _certainly_ happens in the UK ~ I've seen it many a time. And, as with the situation I described in CFU's other related thread (*SUPERMARKET CHECKOUT ETIQUETTE*), you can hardly _refuse_ the person doing the asking without appearing _extremely_ peevish.
It's also far from rare (in my experience, in my part of the UK) for the person in front of you in the queue who has a whole trolleyload of stuff to _offer_ you their place if they see you only have a handful of items, even if they have already laid all their goods out on the conveyor.


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## cuchuflete

Sepia said:


> So I miss one important piece of information in this discussion: Some of you don't seem to be disturbed by the idea that this could happen. Why? Why would this happen? Why would you put up with that?



This is all rather far from the thread topic, but since you asked...

I once spent nearly two hours waiting in line to change currency in a bank in a country
that will remain nameless here.  Neither I nor any of the other customers protested.
They were all local people, and understood that if you wanted to transact banking business at the only bank within about 150 km, you did so on the bank's terms.  I suspect that for the local residents the pace of banking was much like pace of everything else–relaxed.  

I certainly didn't have any reason to protest.  I had traveled very far to get to know that country, its people, its wildlife, and its customs.  It was a very hot afternoon, the bank had nice ceiling fans, the people around me were friendly, and a lot of huffing and puffing on my part would have been rude and accomplished nothing useful.


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## alexacohen

Sepia said:


> Some of you don't seem to be disturbed by the idea that this could happen. Why? Why would this happen? Why would you put up with that?


Because I assumed (and I imagine some others imagined the same) that the bank was only an example of "public place".

If the opener of the thread had said "check in line at an airport during high season" you would not have asked the question.

Er... am I off topic???


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## Macunaíma

In Brazil there is a law that pregnant women, women carrying infants, elderly and disabled people don't have to wait in line (although they inevitably have to when there are too many of them, all at once). Disabled people must be given priority in a waiting line in all circumstances, of course, but I feel indignant that 60-year-old people should be considered elderly for that effect, or when I see a two-month pregnant woman, whose baby belly is hardly showing, claim her right to jump the line. Not to mention women who 'borrow' infants.

In most places where they deal with a large number of people everyday, like banks and hospitals, you get a ticket and wait seated for your number to be shown on a monitor, so you don't have to ask anybody's permission if you decide to leave and risk not being there when your number is called. If you calculate that it will take long until they call you and decide to go and do something else and you are lucky enough to get back just in time, others who decided to wait sitting there have no business complaining, in my opinion (and they don't anyway). But if you are literally _standing _in an _actual _line, then people are not so tolerant and I consider leaving the line to get back later disrespectful to the others unless you have a very good reason to do so. Women tend to be quite vocal against this kind of behaviour (way more so than men) so I strongly recommend against doing it here in Brazil in a line full of women


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## Broccolicious

cuchuflete said:


> I certainly didn't have any reason to protest. I had traveled very far to get to know that country, its people, its wildlife, and its customs. It was a very hot afternoon, the bank had nice ceiling fans, the people around me were friendly, and a lot of huffing and puffing on my part would have been rude and accomplished nothing useful.


 
I had to queue for a whole EIGHT MINUTES in a shop in the centre of London last week, and the person in front of me called over the manager and asked him to open another till. The rest of the people in the queue gasped in astonishment (literally) - I've never heard anyone do that before.

But then again, why not? If they want to keep their customers, they should serve them well. Not that I can imagine ever having the nerve to make a complaint - I'm sure there must be other threads about that somewhere!


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## Outsider

It's not common to have to wait as much as one hour in a queue at a bank in Portugal. People are very well-behaved in banks. In other places, like bus queues, not so much. You will see some jumping queue, or chaotic queues, and most of the time the other people let it slide, though I have also seen people protest, on occasion.

I don't think it's common to ask a stranger to save your place in a queue, either, though I believe I have been asked to do it one or two times. For a short period of time, I think. What is more common is to save a place in a queue for an acquaintance, or to get into a queue next to an acquaintance rather than at the end. This is normally tolerated.



Macunaíma said:


> In most places where they deal with a large number of people everyday, like banks and hospitals, you get a ticket and wait seated for your number to be shown on a monitor, so you don't have to ask anybody's permission if you decide to leave and risk not being there when your number is called. If you calculate that it will take long until they call you and decide to go and do something else and you are lucky enough to get back just in time, others who decided to wait sitting there have no business complaining, in my opinion (and they don't anyway).


The same happens in Portugal.


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## berndf

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> In Spanish supermarkets it is traditional to ask for permission to jump the queue if someone has only one or two items to pay. People use to agree to let him/her through, but not always.
> But now large supermarkets use to have a "caja rápida" quick cash, for customers with less than ten items.
> Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?


 
In the countries I have lived in so far (Germany, France and Switzerland) it would be going just a little bit too far. What you would do it to walk by the people at the top of the queue in the hope of being invited to jump the queue which works more often than not. (Of course only in supermarkets without quick check-out lines.)
Actually asking it you can jump the queue is only possible if you are in a distress situation, e.g. at the airport when your flight is about to close.


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## Vale_yaya

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> In Spanish supermarkets it is traditional to ask for permission to jump the queue if someone has only one or two items to pay. People use to agree to let him/her through, but not always.
> But now large supermarkets use to have a "caja rápida" quick cash, for customers with less than ten items.
> Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?


 
Yes... in Ecuador it was very common... I say "was", because I don't know if anymore since as you said it was created also a: "caja rápida" basically means that you can use that if you have less than 10 items or so... I have seen here in USA that you have "self service" for some big stores due to the high demand of people who needs to pay at the same time and of course trying to reduce "the waiting lines"... I don't see that coming in Ecuador, they don't tend to trust people on that... if they ever do something like that, they're going to have someone behind you checking on you to make sure that you're paying for everything that you're taking with you. (not worth it)
Now talking "in general" about "waiting lines"... in Ecuador, unfortunately there's always a line for everything... the worst are banks, "registro civil" (civil court records.. ???), hospitals, embassies... etc... yeah!!!... maybe most of the places... for banks you can be waiting in line forever!!!... and "people would bite you" if you even try to pass over them... there's some kind of understanding with pregnant and elderly people. 
There's places that you have to be very early in the morning (around 6am) to be attended around 10 am... and there's people who "gets" you in as soon as possible if you pay them (they have contacts "in the place", and of course they also get a share of the gains) I know it's bad, and the worst thing is that this keeps going on because people pays for these services... they rather pay and not wait for a long time.


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## mirx

Vale_yaya said:


> There's places that you have to be very early in the morning (around 6am) to be attended around 10 am... and there's people who "gets" you in as soon as possible if you pay them (they have contacts "in the place", and of course they also get a share of the gains) I know it's bad, and the worst thing is that this keeps going on because people pays for these services... they rather pay and not wait for a long time.


 
This reminded me of the queues to get a chance to take an exam to avail of a place in Mexican secondary/highschools and universities. The pupils no more than 13 years old usually wait from 11 PM the day before knowing that the office will only open the next day at 10 am. Kids with "palancas" (affluences) will arrive a few minutes before the opening time and will be led straight inside.

Cajas rápidas, as they they are also knwon in México, have been in existence for as long as I can remember although they make easier the paying process, some people with many more than 10 items sometimes use them as well.


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## sokol

In Austria it is pretty much the same as described by many already: someone may hold your place in the queue for a short period of time (if you need to go to the loo, so something that takes only a few minutes) or alternatively if you want to sit down but stay there (near the queue).

If you ask someone to hold your place and you *do not* return within a few minutes then the person holding your place most likely would not feel any more obliged to do so - he or she wouldn't hold your place free, or if you return after half an hour then he or she (the 'place-holder') at least would ask the others waiting if it is okay with them: but this is not too likely.



PABLO DE SOTO said:


> In Spanish supermarkets it is traditional to ask for permission to jump the queue if someone has only  one or two items to pay. People use to agree to let him/her through, but not always.
> But now large supermarkets use to have a "caja rápida" quick cash, for customers with less than ten items.
> Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?



It is tradition in Austria too. And yes, there are also _cajas rápidas_ here, but some supermarkets already have given up the idea that customers might be so disciplined to only queue there with 5 items max. (That is, most customers on the caja rápida had 5-15 items usually  so no point in it any more.)

Jumping the queue (or even trying to) is seen as quite rude in Austria; but that does not mean that it doesn't happen - and some people manage to get away with it, somehow.
(Also, waiting at a bank for an hour would be quite extraordinary in Austria; this just doesn't happen. At the GP or in hospitals, however, waiting for hours is nothing unusual at all; and there the same rules apply too, of course.)


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## Gwan

palomnik said:


> As cuchuflete states, in the USA it's rare that anybody tolerates somebody leaving the line for more than a minute without a really good reason. Meeracat's comments on queueing being a British institution made me think of my days as a student back in the good old USSR, where queueing was also an "institution", or maybe "pastime" is a better word, since people frequently spent as much as half of their day standing in line to buy just about anything.
> 
> The interesting thing is that the institutional rules were different for Russians; people frequently asked the person behind them to hold their place in line, and then disappeared for a while - maybe a half hour or more. This was not considered exceptional, and was accepted.
> 
> I'm not too sure what the difference between the British and Russian psyche was in this matter, but I suspect in the case of Russians it was because when a person left one line it was usually so he/she could go and take a place in another line, or even several more lines, and everybody was aware of that. What's more, it wasn't that easy to just slip out somewhere and have a cup of tea - it would involve waiting in another line if you did! - so you must have had a good reason of some sort.
> 
> It's been more than a few years since I've been back to Russia, and I hope that the waiting situation has improved.


 
Things seemed to have changed when I was in Russia a couple of years ago... The 'queue' for the bus was a twice-weekly nightmare - everyone would mill about purposelessly, and then when the bus finally came, charge it in a mob situation - elbows flying. The babushkas being the worst offenders. Another pushing/shoving scramble when you got through the turnstile and *possibly* into a seat. Then the reverse process to get off the bus again.

Here in NZ, we pretty much take our queuing culture from the British. I would be very surprised if someone asked to hold a place for more than a couple of minutes - I don't think they'd get away with it, but you never know, because people are generally too polite to do more than mutter darkly if people break queuing regulations. You will be a social leper if you push in etc., but you may not get confronted directly about it.


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## LouisaB

In the UK it depends very much on how long one expects the queue to last, and whether it'll make any difference if someone leaves for a while.

For the big sales or perhaps a queue for tickets for a popular gig, some people actually bring sleeping bags and prepare to queue for days. One couple I know regularly spend two days waiting for the January Harrods Sale, and I think they do it as much for the socialising as they do for the sale. Under these circumstances, it's apparently quite usual for people to hold your place while you go and have breakfast, or go to a public baths for a shower. The feeling is very 'Blitz spirit', ie 'we're all in it together' and people help each other out. The attitude to those 'Johnny-come-lately's' who turn up only hours before the doors open is _very_ different.

For shorter queues, it's rare to ask someone to hold your place unless what you're doing actually keeps you in sight, eg going to a nearby drinks machine. It's true people don't often say 'no' if you ask (very unBritish!) but they certainly wouldn't like you very much. It's not so much the principle that bothers people, as the fear that those behind them on the queue will resent it, and blame _them._ We're a bunch of chickens on the whole...

Louisa


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## Wilma_Sweden

Swedish queue culture is not dissimilar to the British version: you do not talk to other people, and you feel uncomfortable if you have to stand very close together. I think Swedes have taken the personal space issue even further: more often than not, people are standing so far apart, or off to one side, that you can't tell for sure where the queue is, in which case you need to ask. If you accidentally jump someone, you will be told politely but firmly by those being jumped! Disabled people and grannies with walking aids are usually exempted from queueing, and if you're 9 months' pregnant you may also get lucky!

At airports, there is usually one queue for each airline, indicated by temporary fences or other markers to show where to queue (to avoid above-mentioned bus stop mayhem), and the first in the queue gets called to the next free check-in desk. People may hold your place in the queue if you have a convincing argument (buying drinks is not good enough), but only for a couple of minutes. 

Banks, pharmacies and the ER usually have a queue number system, which saves you having to stand in line - you can hang around anywhere or go off and do other errands, as long as you come back before your number is up. If you miss your number, that's it, you get forced to take a new number! Neither bank tellers nor other customers will tolerate late arrival.

At the supermarket, you can sometimes get away with jumping the queue if you have just one or two items, but you have to get consent from pretty much everyone in the queue or get silent but deadly looks from those further back! Swedish supermarkets have also started with DIY checkout desks, which is a much better idea if you can find the end of the queue for those checkout desks... 

/Wilma


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## Etcetera

Hi Сfu507. 


cfu507 said:


> Is it usual in your country to ask the person who is last in line to 'save your place' in the queue, leave the bank and come back half an hour later, for example?


It's pretty common here to ask the person standing before (or right after) you in the queue to "save your place". But I wouldn't advise you to disappear for more than 10 minutes.




> How would you react if someone came into a bank and did this and what would you think of him?


I would nod and smile. And I'll be sure to tell the person who would join the queue a bit later that there's already someone after me.


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## jinti

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> In Spanish supermarkets it is traditional to ask for permission to jump the queue if someone has only one or two items to pay. People use to agree to let him/her through, but not always.
> But now large supermarkets use to have a "caja rápida" quick cash, for customers with less than ten items. Yes, we have "express lanes" for less than 10 or sometimes less than 12 items. Of course, what constitutes "an item" is open to interpretation.
> 
> Do people in your countries ask for permission to jump the queue when they only have one or two items to pay?
> I've only rarely been asked by someone if they can go ahead of me in a grocery store, but when I have a full cart and the person behind me has only a couple items, I generally offer to let them go first. When I'm the one with only a few items, I don't feel comfortable asking to go ahead of other people, but I'll accept if they offer. Sometimes they do.
> 
> The same thing happens in lines for the ladies' room (bathroom). If a woman has little children with her, I generally offer to let her go first since little kids can't wait as long as adults can. But I have only rarely been asked to do so. We seem to have an aversion to asking....


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