# Culture and Language



## temujin

Hi folks,

...As you know, you cannot really separate a language from its culture, and vice versa. Some words and expressions do indeed seem to describe the culture in which they are beeing used...

E.g:
-In Japanese (or was it Chinese) the same word is beeing used for "food" as for "rice", implying that "food" and "rice" is the same thing....hehe
-SouthAmerican Spanish, The word "Esposa" meaning "wife" as well as "handcuffs" 


I think this is an interesting subject, and I was hoping that somebody could add up with some more examples of the same kind...


regards
e.


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## Tormenta

Hi all,

I find the following very interesting.

In Argentina, a wedding ring is called "alianza" .  Both, the bride(wife) and the groom(husband) wear such ring. "Alianza" is a noun, you would not say "Alianza ring" , just "Alianza".  

"May I see your Alianza ?"   "I bet your Alianza cost $5,000".

"Alianza" is also the Spanish word for  alliance/covenant.

Tormenta


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## Tormenta

temujin said:
			
		

> Hi folks,
> 
> ...As you know, you cannot really separate a language from its culture, and vice versa. Some words and expressions do indeed seem to describe the culture in which they are beeing used...
> 
> E.g:
> -In Japanese (or was it Chinese) the same word is beeing used for "food" as for "rice", implying that "food" and "rice" is the same thing....hehe
> -SouthAmerican Spanish, The word "*Esposa*" meaning "wife" as well as "handcuffs"
> 
> 
> I think this is an interesting subject, and I was hoping that somebody could add up with some more examples of the same kind...
> 
> 
> regards
> e.




And "Esposo" means husband


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## vachecow

In Latin the word "Ludus" could mean either "school" or "game"!!! Kinda shows you what the Romans thought about school


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## sastrem92

vachecow121 said:
			
		

> In Latin the word "Ludus" could mean either "school" or "game"!!! Kinda shows you what the Romans thought about school



Whereas the greek word "δουλειά"(/duliá/) now means work but originally comes from "δουλεία" (/dulía/) which means slavery.
And our present salary comes from the way Roman soldiers were paid, that is with salt.


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## Silvia

Right now I can only think of the Russian "myr": it can either mean peace or world.



			
				vachecow121 said:
			
		

> In Latin the word "Ludus" could mean either "school" or "game"!!!


I've never heard this before. Where did you find it?


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## vachecow

I took Latin for a while and now my younger brother is taking some of his last courses, and every so often I go back and look through those old books.......anyway, the book I got it out of was Latin For Americans which is/was (I think it is out of print) published by Glencoe.  We were just talking about it the other day.


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## quehuong

temujin said:
			
		

> -In Japanese (or was it Chinese) the same word is beeing used for "food" as for "rice", implying that "food" and "rice" is the same thing....hehee.



Yes, *米* = rice; meal in Chinese.  It's because rice is the main staple for most Chinese, and they eat rice almost every meal.

*Xin Cha`o* (pronunciation: *seen * and cha`o sounds like the *Spanish chao* and *Italian ciao*) + title ( and optional + given name )
= Hello!  

*Xin Chao*+ title ( and optional + given name ) and some some phrases (depends on the situation)
= Good-bye!

*Cha`o * alone is fine and but *Xin Cha`o* is very very polite.

*Nha`* = house/home but it is also an endearment for wife/husband.


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## zebedee

I've heard it said that the British have the most varied vocabulary of all to describe varieties and variations of rain...


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## Tormenta

zebedee said:
			
		

> I've heard it said that the British have the most varied vocabulary of all to describe *varieties and variations of rain*...



I believe you Zebe, and they talk about it everyday   
It's not like we are going to forget that it rains daily if people don't mention it  

Tormenta


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## paluszak

silviap said:
			
		

> Right now I can only think of the Russian "myr": it can either mean peace or world.


 Yeah, but before the Soviet reform of spelling after the revolution the two words ('mir' - peace and 'mir' - world) were spelled differently, so I believe they could have different origins.


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## NTFS

in the philippines rice has a different term depending on it's state. rice stalks are called "palay" as well as the fruit it self. after harvest the have to peel the rice after the peeling proccess they will be called "bigas" or rice grains. then you will cook the rice, after cooking it will be called "kanin",cooking it with too much water it will be called "lugaw" the over cooked part of the rice is called "tutong"
when it cools down or if the rice was cooked for a day or 2 it will be called "bahaw". how funny isn't it...


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## Jonegy

Hi Zeb & Tormenta
I suppose in the old agricultural days no one worked when it was raining and I should think that the 'upper classes' would find something indoors to pass the time away - probably staring out of the windows bored out of their tiny brains inventing names for the different types of precipitation ( drizzle, mizzle, shower, spotting, downpour, etc etc)  Although there was always one word I liked that described the situation to a 'T' --  "hoar" - that thin sometimes freezing mist with no wind that absolutely saturates you, the pronunciation I find most apt. ;-)

tchao gente - feliz ano novo


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## David

Palaszak, when I was a little boy, almost 60 years ago, there was a Polish man who took care of the building where we lived in a bad part of New York. He would chase the kids away from the door, swinging his belt like a whip and shouting something like Szakreb! Do you recognize it? Was it a terrible word? We weren´t really afraid, but it sounded awful when he yelled it.


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## gabby

language and culture cannot stand without the other, i mean language will not be there without culture and vice versa.
in the case of phillipine cultre (which is a sum up of other cultures like spanish, american culture, japanese and even portuguese), seem to be complicated but we come to speak one language...that is called FILIPINO. 
aside from this common language that we speak, philippines has different dialects. Dialect is a regional variety of language. each region may have its own dialect. Northern region do speak ILOCANO. Central region speak KAPAMPANGAN. Other region speak pangasinan. others speak BICOLANO, WARAY, cebuano, batangeno and a lot more.
if one meets the other, they will not speak their native tongue but instead they would speak Filipino so they would come to understand each other. 
a part of the country speaks TSABACANO (cha ba ca no) which is based on spanish language. it is somewhat same as spanish.
japanese and chinese contributed also to our language, some words that i couls think of... mmmmm....siomai(chinese food), pancit( counterpart of pasta), tsinelas(slippers), siopao(bread with some wierd filling) and others...
english is the mode teaching their in the phils. when you go to school subjects are in english. that would make english as the second language spoken.

i hope you like these...if you have questions just send me a message.

GAbbY


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## zyqagg

The Chinese the verb "da" originally means "to beat" but is used with a variety of objects. It can mean play, make, etc.

You beat a yawn, beat a telephone, beat cards, beat balls, beat hearing(to ask)

The word "Chir" meaning "to eat" can be following by more, you "eat fragrance" you are popular; you "eat non-digestion", you can't bear; you "eat wane", you lose something; you "eat force", you are tired; you "don't eat this set", you are immune to this scheme, etc.


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## toscairn

"Bukkake" in its gereral use is not obscene at all, just means "to pour or do the toppings onto" but whenever I use it in English boards I'm criticized or even be warned to ban.
There's even a kind of noodles called "Bukkake Udon," which I'm sure you gentlemen want to try it some day. Just a plain dish not so much to speak of, I might add.


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## gaer

toscairn said:
			
		

> "Bukkake" in its gereral use is not obscene at all, just means "to pour or do the toppings onto" but whenever I use it in English boards I'm criticized or even be warned to ban.
> There's even a kind of noodles called "Bukkake Udon," which I'm sure you gentlemen want to try it some day. Just a plain dish not so much to speak of, I might add.


Why would you be warned about a Japanese word by members of English speaking places?

I found this:

ぶっかける,  dash (slosh) water (or other liquid) on a person or in a person's face

I think that うどん　（饂飩） just means noodles. Is this right?

ぶっかけうどん is a kind of noodle dish, but is water somehow put on them? As in stir-fry?

Gaer


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## Benjy

gaer said:
			
		

> Why would you be warned about a Japanese word by members of English speaking places?
> 
> I found this:
> 
> ぶっかける,  dash (slosh) water (or other liquid) on a person or in a person's face



i hesitate to reply simply because i know what people are going to think BUT to answer the question on why certain people might warn you about this word:

think the definition of the word that i quoted then think porn. 

sorry...


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## ayed

In Saudi Arabia , Riyadh,when one call on us , we usher him saying"Oqlot"--Come in".However, once a Jizanite--from Jizan , a city southwest of Saudi Arabia, came over to visit another in Riyadh,the Riyadite said:"Oqlot"then the Jizanite flinched away because"Oqlot" in Jizanite's colloquial means"fuck off"
Ayed


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## Roi Marphille

temujin said:
			
		

> -SouthAmerican Spanish, The word "Esposa" meaning "wife" as well as "handcuffs"


Hi temujin,
It's indeed a curious fact but not 100% true. "esposa" does not actually mean "handcuffs" , it is *only* the plural "esposas" who reffer to "handcuffs". However, it is true that you can confuse the plural with wifes. And even make out some funny   jokes like: "el policía tiene varias/muchas esposas"

cheers,
Roi


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## paluszak

temujin said:
			
		

> E.g:
> -In Japanese (or was it Chinese) the same word is beeing used for "food" as for "rice", implying that "food" and "rice" is the same thing....hehe



In Chinese there are quite a few words which translate into English as 'rice'. There's a word for cooked rice 飯 [fan4] which can also mean food and when you want to say 'to eat' in general without referencing to a specific object being eaten, you usually say 吃飯 [chi1fan4], where 吃 [chi1] is a verb meaning 'to eat' and 飯 [fan4] is a direct object meaning 'cooked rice'. The whole compound just means 'to eat'.

As far as I remember there's the same situation in Vietnamese, where you say ăn cơm (ăn - eat, cơm - cooked rice).

In Japanese a meal is called ご飯 (gohan), which means something like 'respectable rice'. By adding words denoting time of day in front you can get a 'morning respectable rice' - 朝ご飯 (asagohan, asa = morning) and so on. Actually, in Chinese the way of forming words for breakfast, lunch etc. is very similar.

In Korean the word for 'rice' is also very widely used, but my Korean sucks, so I wont elaborate, perhaps somebody who can speak a better Korean than me should write about that.

Jakub


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## paluszak

quehuong said:
			
		

> Yes, *米* = rice; meal in Chinese.  It's because rice is the main staple for most Chinese, and they eat rice almost every meal.



This 米 [mi3] means rice, try, but it's not used to describe cooked rice ready for eating, for that we've got another word: 飯 [fan4].



			
				quehuong said:
			
		

> *Nha`* = house/home but it is also an endearment for wife/husband.



In Japanese one of the many words for wife is 家內 [kanai], but the original meaning of the Sino-Japanese words it's made of is 'inside the house'. This definitely show us what the Japanese thought about the most fitting place to keep their wives. 

Jakub


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## elroy

The Arabic word used colloquially for "black" (as in Negro) is the word for "slave."  I'm not proud of it but it's true.


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## elroy

Also, in Spanish there are two different words for "electric fan" and "handheld fan."  Goes to show how important _abanicos_ (the latter) are in Spanish society.


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## Amityville

And in French, elroy. Could be only English that uses the same word for both, don't know.
Reading the thread title made me think straightaway of words and phrases or even just locutions that are a problem to translate. I think these are strong indicators of cultural differences. One that springs to mind is "patrimoine" - no single English word that I can think of translates this and it is because the same concept doesn't exist in English, in my corner of the English-speaking world at least. There must be many other examples......


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Amityville*
> One that springs to mind is "patrimoine"



Is this the same "patrimoine" with the meaning "heritage" (kind of?)

Can you further enlighten us as to how it doesn't translate?  I might understand it differently than do you.


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## paluszak

Amityville said:
			
		

> And in French, elroy. Could be only English that uses the same word for both, don't know.



And in Polish, and in Russian, the only languages I know which use the same word for 'handheld fan' and 'electric fan' are English and Chinese, and I suppose the Chinese word is a calque from English.

Jakub


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## paluszak

Amityville said:
			
		

> Reading the thread title made me think straightaway of words and phrases or even just locutions that are a problem to translate. I think these are strong indicators of cultural differences. One that springs to mind is "patrimoine" - no single English word that I can think of translates this and it is because the same concept doesn't exist in English, in my corner of the English-speaking world at least. There must be many other examples......



What about patrimony?

Jakub


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## Amityville

Morning, GenJen and paluszak.
Before I answer I'd better read the whole of the Code Civile - may be gone for some time.....no, decided against it.  I will tell you how I see it, as a non-French person, and await correction.
In the UK, patrimony is a seldom-used word and heritage tends to mean Westminster Abbey and the National Trust.
Patrimoine on the other hand is a word in more common use, meaning, as I understand it, ancestral traditions, birthright, inherited property, kinship, and more,  and applying to the country, the commune, the family and the individual. The idea is enshrined in the law and in peoples' thinking. In the UK, you can leave your worldly goods to whomever you like. In France you cannot disinherit your children - you are not  the owner of your property, so much as the temporary guardian of it for your children. So to translate patrimoine by one of possible matches which exist in English never seems sufficient and you have to use several of them or an explanatory phrase, depending on manifold context.


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## xav

Amityville said:
			
		

> Morning, GenJen and paluszak.
> Before I answer I'd better read the whole of the Code Civile - may be gone for some time.....no, decided against it. I will tell you how I see it, as a non-French person, and await correction.
> In the UK, patrimony is a seldom-used word and heritage tends to mean Westminster Abbey and the National Trust.
> Patrimoine on the other hand is a word in more common use, meaning, as I understand it, ancestral traditions, birthright, inherited property, kinship, and more, and applying to the country, the commune, the family and the individual. The idea is enshrined in the law and in peoples' thinking. In the UK, you can leave your worldly goods to whomever you like. In France you cannot disinherit your children - you are not the owner of your property, so much as the temporary guardian of it for your children. So to translate patrimoine by one of possible matches which exist in English never seems sufficient and you have to use several of them or an explanatory phrase, depending on manifold context.


 
Exactement - please don't read the Code civil (without "e"), because you'll find only the material and individual part of the notion. The sense of of the word was extended during the XIXth century when we re-discovered the  beauty of cathedrals and old fortresses (with Viollet-le-Duc, Mérimée etc.).


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## Outsider

gabbya said:
			
		

> part of the country speaks TSABACANO (cha ba ca no) which is based on spanish language. it is somewhat same as spanish.
> japanese and chinese contributed also to our language, some words that i couls think of... mmmmm....siomai(chinese food), pancit( counterpart of pasta), tsinelas(slippers) [...]


Chinelas!...


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## MrFred

in spanish
Muñeca : doll
Muñeca: wrist

pito: pennis, willy 
pito: whistle  ( LOL )


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## Amityville

xav said:
			
		

> Exactement - please don't read the Code civil (without "e"), because you'll find only the material and individual part of the notion. The sense of of the word was extended during the XIXth century when we re-discovered the beauty of cathedrals and old fortresses (with Viollet-le-Duc, Mérimée etc.).


 
Thanks, xav, for the confirmation and relived not to have to read the Code civil, minus "e". There are other words which are a problem to translate too - 'repreneur', 'servitude' and in the other direction -'brunch' - they don't translate easily and it is a sure sign of important or less important cultural difference. Two of those are currently the subject of threads and there must be more.


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## Hakro

Amityville said:
			
		

> Thanks, xav, for the confirmation and relived not to have to read the Code civil, minus "e". There are other words which are a problem to translate too - 'repreneur', 'servitude' and in the other direction -'brunch' - they don't translate easily and it is a sure sign of important or less important cultural difference. Two of those are currently the subject of threads and there must be more.


I believe that the Finnish equivalent for 'patrimoine' (perintö) is here understood in a quite similar way as in French.
I have also had problems with 'servitude' (concerning automobiles), not to speak about 'redondant'.


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## Mutichou

In French, "femme" means "woman", but it is also "wife".
(There is also "épouse" which means "wife").


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## SpiceMan

Benjy said:
			
		

> i hesitate to reply simply because i know what people are going to think BUT to answer the question on why certain people might warn you about this word:
> 
> think the definition of the word that i quoted then think porn.
> 
> sorry...


Bukkake is a sex-related word in the west only (Well, I can only speak about English and Spanish ... in Argentina). I've asked several japanese about the word and most reply something like "you mean like throwing X on the floor?" (maybe shinto related) or about bukkake udon. I even explained what the word means in western countries, and they found it weird.


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## natasha2000

temujin said:
			
		

> Hi folks,
> 
> ...As you know, you cannot really separate a language from its culture, and vice versa. Some words and expressions do indeed seem to describe the culture in which they are beeing used...
> 
> E.g:
> -In Japanese (or was it Chinese) the same word is beeing used for "food" as for "rice", implying that "food" and "rice" is the same thing....hehe
> -SouthAmerican Spanish, The word "Esposa" meaning "wife" as well as "handcuffs"
> 
> 
> I think this is an interesting subject, and I was hoping that somebody could add up with some more examples of the same kind...
> 
> 
> regards
> e.


 
I would say that not only Spanish people link marriage and prison with the same word.... English also has a similar word.... Wedlock, isn't it?

I remember the movie with Rudger Hauer (sorry if I wrote the surname wrong), named Wedlock meaning the neckless the prisoners wore, which would explode automatically if they run away from the prison...


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## SpiceMan

paluszak said:
			
		

> What about patrimony?
> 
> Jakub


Maybe the french word closely resembles spanish, were it can also mean "legacy" as in the legacy that people from the past left us.


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## blancalaw

I like how there are various words in the same language for the same item due to the way various people view that item.  For example,
Automobile (it moves by itself)
Car (a box that moves)
Coach (variation from horse and buggy)
Quadricycle (not used anymore but is a vehicle that has 4 wheels)

Refrigerator (makes what is inside cold)
Ice box (variation from the old way to keep something cold)


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## Chaska Ñawi

Y de donde viene "media naranja"?


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## blancalaw

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> Y de donde viene "media naranja"?



Good question?  In English it is "better half"  but why an orange?  Is there a tradition to cut an orange in half and share it with a friend? Why not any other object?  Perhaps because it is easier to peel an orange into two parts instead of having to cut it.


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## SpiceMan

Because of some greek tragedy by Aristophanes or something: http://recursos.cnice.mec.es/latingriego/Palladium/0_alumnos/esal11ca6.php


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## elroy

paluszak said:
			
		

> And in Polish, and in Russian, the only languages I know which use the same word for 'handheld fan' and 'electric fan' are English and Chinese, and I suppose the Chinese word is a calque from English.
> 
> Jakub


 
Arabic also uses the same word for both.


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## Hakro

It seems that you have forgot the third meaning: the fan of an idol. 
(Maybe there are more meanings in English for the word  'fan', I don't know.)
You may imagine how we laughed reading those computer-translated instuctions for a chinese electric fan where "fan" was translated into Finnish as "fan of an idol"; it's of course a totally different word  in Finnish (as in most of the European languages).


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## paluszak

blancalaw said:
			
		

> I like how there are various words in the same language for the same item due to the way various people view that item.  For example,
> Automobile (it moves by itself)
> Car (a box that moves)
> Coach (variation from horse and buggy)
> Quadricycle (not used anymore but is a vehicle that has 4 wheels)
> 
> Refrigerator (makes what is inside cold)
> Ice box (variation from the old way to keep something cold)



English is especially rich in such synonyms, sometimes it's funny to hear how the same things are called in different partys of English-speaking world. Let me add my two cents, I think 'car' comes from Latin (via French) where it ment a kind of cart. The story of 'coach' is even more interesting, as it comes from Hungarian word 'kocsi' which ment something like 'a (type of) cart made in Kocs' (Kocs is a town in Hungary), then it made it's way to other Central European languages, among them German where it was spelled 'Kotsche', from which it was borrowed by English-speakers.

J.


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## paluszak

Hakro said:
			
		

> It seems that you have forgot the third meaning: the fan of an idol.
> (Maybe there are more meanings in English for the word  'fan', I don't know.)
> You may imagine how we laughed reading those computer-translated instuctions for a chinese electric fan where "fan" was translated into Finnish as "fan of an idol"; it's of course a totally different word  in Finnish (as in most of the European languages).



Well, they are totally different words, it's just coincidence that they are spelled and pronounced the same.


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## Chaska Ñawi

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Because of some greek tragedy by Aristophanes or something: http://recursos.cnice.mec.es/latingriego/Palladium/0_alumnos/esal11ca6.php



Muy interesante - gracias, SpiceMan.


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## natasha2000

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Because of some greek tragedy by Aristophanes or something: http://recursos.cnice.mec.es/latingriego/Palladium/0_alumnos/esal11ca6.php


 
Very interesting....
I especially liked the last sentence of a new Zeus' threat. Makes one to think about the vanity of a human being...

_"Zeus amenazó con cortarnos de nuevo en dos mitades .......*en caso de que la raza humana no aprenda a respetar sus propios límites y a superar su peligrosa arrogancia"*_


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## asm

And "Esposas" means handcuffs (its a singular item but a plural noun, it might be because of the two hands). Is there any cultural relationship?



			
				Tormenta said:
			
		

> And "Esposo" means husband


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