# 子供が迷惑でしょう



## Myuu

Hello everyone,

I came across this sentence when I was searching for example sentences using 迷惑. 

大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が迷惑でしょ。
My understanding is that this means something like, "For the most part, if you make your kids your reason for living, it'll be bothersome/annoying for those kids." 

The part I don't get is 子供が迷惑. 
Normally I would think that this means that kids are a bother or are annoying, but that doesn't really make sense in the above sentence. It makes more sense to say that it will be annoying for the kid. 

So my question is, why is 子供　marked with the subject-marker が, and yet does not mean (I assume) that kids themselves are annoying?


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## akimura

Hi Myuu,

This is an interesting question.  I quickly looked at some reference books but none of them seem to cover the topic.  So I'll give you my view.

My view is simple.  It seems that the da-adjective 迷惑だ can mean either _be bothering_ or _be bothered_ depending on context.  I think you get the context right in your case.

Incidentally, I myself have had a similar trouble understanding the English verb _sell_ before.  I assumed that _eggs_, for example, are something that someone _sell_, so _eggs_ are supposed to _be sold_, but then I encountered a sentence like _Eggs sell well_.  On another occasion, a former American colleague said to me, "_You are sold!_"


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## YangMuye

akimura said:


> My view is simple.  It seems that the da-adjective 迷惑だ can mean either _be bothering_ or _be bothered_ depending on context.



I seems to me that だ can not, but だろう, だそうだ, だらしい and だと(言っている, 思っている...) can.


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## akimura

Hi YangMuye,

Well, I'm afraid I can't agree with you...  Let me generate some examples:1) 新入社員の飲み会に来るなんて、社長は迷惑だ。(The president is bothersome.)
2) そのような技術的な質問をされても、社長は迷惑だ。(The president will be bothered.)​For sentence 2), 迷惑だろう works but it will make the sentence mean a totally different thing: the president will probably be bothered.  However, sentence 2) means "The president will be bothered if he is asked such a technical question" which practically means "the president will be bothered, so don't ask such a technical question at all".  Using だ, rather than だろう, etc., you can successfully make a very strong commanding effect such as this.

Meanwhile, I just used, in my previous post, the base form of the da-adjective 迷惑だ with the view of making my argument just simple.

Also, 子供が迷惑でしょ and 子供が迷惑でしょう are quite different.  The former means, "The child will be bothered, right? (で, the 連用形 of だ, assertion, then しょ, read in rising tone, asking agreement)" while the latter means, "The child will probably be bothered (assumption, read in falling tone)."  So I thought the base or assertion form of 迷惑だ was the most appropriate for my argument.


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## YangMuye

akimuraさん、指摘してくれてありがとうございます。
『大辞林』の「迷惑」という見出しの下に「[派生] ――が･る」と書いてありますので、当然「うれしい」などと同じく自分の感情しか表さない、と思ってしまったんです。



> Also, 子供が迷惑でしょ and 子供が迷惑でしょう are quite different


But でしょう can also be read in rising tone.
And
「実は嬉しいでしょ？」 good 
「実は嬉しいです」 ????


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## akimura

Yes, it's really complicating.  In the initial example, both 子供が迷惑でしょ and 子供が迷惑がるでしょ can be used.



YangMuye said:


> But でしょう can also be read in rising tone.



Yes, it can, although I have almost never used でしょう in rising tone in my life.  The reason is that it doesn't make a question like でしょ read in rising tone, but that it makes a sentence that shows the speaker's irritation, sarcasm, and anger to the listener.  It sounds almost as if a fist fight is about to start.  Women might use it, but men like myself would rather use more vulgar language such as だろ in rising tone to make such an effect.  でしょう in rising tone is such an extreme expression that I automatically discarded this possibility in my previous post for fear that I could be too off the topic in this thread.

So even if でしょう and でしょ are both read in rising tone, they are different.  I guess your reference to 嬉しいでしょ and 嬉しいです are mentioned to argue that 嬉しいでしょ and 嬉しいでしょう are the same.  嬉しいでしょう and 嬉しいでしょ are quite different for the above-mentioned reason.


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## akimura

Myuu said:


> 大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が迷惑でしょ。
> "For the most part, if you make your kids your reason for living, it'll be bothersome/annoying for those kids."



I just noticed the _for the most part_ part, and I thought I would say something about it too.  If my English serves, 大体 in this example means _in the first place_ rather than _for the most part_.


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## YangMuye

akimura said:


> I guess your reference to 嬉しいでしょ and 嬉しいです are mentioned to argue that 嬉しいでしょ and 嬉しいでしょう are the same. 嬉しいでしょう and 嬉しいでしょ are quite different for the above-mentioned reason.


Oh... sorry I mislead you. What I want to say is that even でしょ and でしょう is different, でしょ can be used after adjectives such as 嬉し, 美味しい etc. in order to express other people's emotions.
It seems that 迷惑 is a little different. The dictionary says that it has a がる form, which you don't really need it since you have said that そのような技術的な質問をされても、社長は迷惑だ is grammatical.
Do you use 迷惑がる?


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## Wishfull

Myuu said:


> 大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が迷惑でしょ。



Hi I think of another theory;

子供が迷惑　is merely the abbreviation of 子供が迷惑する.

大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が迷惑するでしょ。


小学生が英検一級合格（した）。
原発が爆発（した）。
あんたが大将（です）。
県民と首相が対談（する）。
車が大渋滞（する）

あなたみたいな運動神経の鈍いヒトがハンドルを握ったら、車が大渋滞でしょう。
＝あなたみたいな運動神経の鈍いヒトがハンドルを握ったら、車が大渋滞するでしょう。


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## akimura

YangMuye said:


> そのような技術的な質問をされても、社長は迷惑だ is grammatical.
> Do you use 迷惑がる?



The following three variations are all correct.大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が*迷惑でしょ*。
大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が*迷惑がるでしょ*。
大体、子供を生きがいにしてしまったら当の子供が*迷惑するでしょ*。​


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## Myuu

Thanks for your replies, everyone!

I had another thought. This maybe won't work if 迷惑 is just an abbreviation for the verb form 迷惑する, but as an adjective is it related to others like うらやましい? 
"友達がうらやましい。" means "I am jealous of my friend," right? Yet, 友達　is marked with が which would normally lead me to think that it means "My friend is jealous." Can it in fact mean "My friend is jealous," or is there only one interpretation of this sentence?

I also thought of a verb that I remember seemed ambiguous: むかつく
妹がむかつく <- does this mean "My little sister irritates me" or "My little sister is irritated"? Does it depend on the context, like 迷惑する?


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