# All Slavic: Тю-тю



## Maroseika

Тю-тю is an interjection meaning that something has dissapeared (negative connotation):
- Где же твои денежки? Нету, тю-тю. Where is your money? I've nothing, тю-тю.
- Оставил я машину у магазина, а запереть забыл. Вышел из магазина, а машина - тю-тю.
I've left my car near the shop unlocked, and when I came back my car was тю-тю.

I failed to find any etymology of this interjection and hope maybe other Slavic languages might help.


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## K.u.r.t

It sounds similar to Czech "ta tam" - the etimology of which I don't know either. There is nothing negative about it though, it sounds more like an expression from a novel


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## mcibor

In Polish there is a similar sound, but it's not a word and I have never seen it written (nowhere, nor in books, not forums, nor chat)

it's a sound you make with your tounge and teeth called in Polish "cmokanie" (couldn't find it in dictionary, though). You make it while inhaling, not exhaling. As if saying Polish letter "c" on inhaling, it's a short sound.

This sound is usually repeated 3 times to show negative connotation. You can use it to express "no really" on hearing My car has been stolen, but mostly it is used to express disagreement, when somebody did sth wrong:
c c c, you shoudn't have done that.

Strangely one "c" can be used to drive a horse (on a cart, meaning go), and to show negative resignation:
Oh, "c", you did that again... you know, you shouldn't do it.

I have no idea on the etymology, especially that it's refered to only as verb of action, never the sound itself

Regards
Michał


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## K.u.r.t

The way I understand it it means "gone", not just a generic negative conotation, right? That's what I replied to in my previous post.


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## niko

Couldn't it be a kind of onomatopoeia ? I don't know wether it is common in Russian though...
But then there would be no real etymology, it's just the sound which is important.


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## Thomas1

This reminds me of Polish _ciuciu_. It can mean a few things:
--_ciuciu _is used by small kids (usually by those who are just learning to speak) it refers to sweets;
--_ciuciu-babka _a name of a game--blindman 's buff;
--_ciuciu_ an onomatopoeic word that imitates the sound of a locomotive (called _ciuchcia_; especially by kids).

They don't have negative connotations. Unfortunately, I don’t know the etymology of these words either (I would hypothesize that the third is derived from the onomatopoetic assotiations and the first one could be simple a child babble).

I don’t associate it, however with the example given by Michał, which is rather a grunt than a word.

Tom


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## mcibor

Then I cannot think of any such word in Polish, which means specifically "gone", sorry

Yes, "c" is more a grunt, not a word. As I said, I have never seen it written, I even can't think of any way to write it, so that other Pole would understand...


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## Maroseika

mcibor said:


> In Polish there is a similar sound, but it's not a word and I have never seen it written (nowhere, nor in books, not forums, nor chat)
> 
> it's a sound you make with your tounge and teeth called in Polish "cmokanie" (couldn't find it in dictionary, though). You make it while inhaling, not exhaling. As if saying Polish letter "c" on inhaling, it's a short sound.
> 
> This sound is usually repeated 3 times to show negative connotation. You can use it to express "no really" on hearing My car has been stolen, but mostly it is used to express disagreement, when somebody did sth wrong:
> c c c, you shoudn't have done that.
> 
> Strangely one "c" can be used to drive a horse (on a cart, meaning go), and to show negative resignation:
> Oh, "c", you did that again... you know, you shouldn't do it.
> 
> I have no idea on the etymology, especially that it's refered to only as verb of action, never the sound itself
> 
> Regards
> Michał


 
I think I know what you mean, and in Russian this interjection also is not written, but only is described somehow, something like: 
И он озабоченно *поцокал языком*.
It usually consists of one or three or indefinitely many of separate *тс'*s*, *pronounced exactly like you have explained, and means dissapointment or vexation.
But *тю-тю* is quite another thing. 
Maybe you know very like (but solitary) Ukrainian (or South-Russian) interjection of the surprise: 
*тю!* (ascending inflection) or *тю-у...* (descending).


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## Maroseika

K.u.r.t said:


> The way I understand it it means "gone", not just a generic negative conotation, right? That's what I replied to in my previous post.


Yes, exactly, it means *"gone".*


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## Maroseika

niko said:


> Couldn't it be a kind of onomatopoeia ? I don't know wether it is common in Russian though...
> But then there would be no real etymology, it's just the sound which is important.


Polish *ciuciu *and Russian чух-чух imitate locomotive and are therefore evidently onomatopoetic.
But what might imitate *тю-тю*? I have only one very weak hypothesis, that it might be a distorted *фью/фьють*, i.e. a sound of whistling, because *свистнуть - to give a whistle = to steal.*


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## niko

Maroseika said:


> Polish *ciuciu *and Russian чух-чух imitate locomotive and are therefore evidently onomatopoetic.
> But what might imitate *тю-тю*? I have only one very weak hypothesis, that it might be a distorted *фью/фьють*, i.e. a sound of whistling, because *свистнуть - to give a whistle = to steal.*



That's what I was thinking of, actually. Even though I'm not sure I pronounce *тю-тю* well enough to figure out exactly... But there is a similar use (I mean, similar to your examples) with the French "pfuiit-pfuiit" or simply "pfuiit".


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## Maroseika

niko said:


> That's what I was thinking of, actually. Even though I'm not sure I pronounce *тю-тю* well enough to figure out exactly... But there is a similar use (I mean, similar to your examples) with the French "pfuiit-pfuiit" or simply "pfuiit".


Тю-тю [t'u-t'u].
And what does mean "pfuiit" in French?


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## niko

Well, it means nothing, it just evokes a kind of quick movement, or a whistle, mostly used when something disappears. With the example of the car, it suits well for example :
"J'laisse ma caisse ouverte près du magasin, et quand j'reviens, pfuiiit la bagnole! 
(voluntarily slanguish, because this kind of onomatopoeic stuff doesn't suit with formal language  )


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## Thomas1

Maroseika said:


> Polish *ciuciu *and Russian чух-чух imitate locomotive and are therefore evidently onomatopoetic. [...]


Since you mentioned that I'd also say that _ciuch ciuch _is used in Polish too, moreover, I think it's even more common.


Maroseika said:


> [...]
> But what might imitate *тю-тю*? I have only one very weak hypothesis, that it might be a distorted *фью/фьють*, i.e. a sound of whistling, because *свистнуть - to give a whistle = to steal.*


We have also _fju fju_ it's usually the onomatopoeia for the twiter or even warble (?) of birds (e.g. of a sparrow).

Two more things on the topic:
I recalled _ta_ which is used as an indicator of emotions (from disparagement to surprise).

I also remember one more which is rather a grunt than a word itself but I'd mention it in case someone knows what it's spelled like. It's _tse. You might _think it's similar to the one described by Michał, but it isn't since here you exhale the air and it's usually used when someone expresses their condescending attitude.


Tom


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## scriptum

Maroseika said:


> But *тю-тю* is quite another thing.


 
Well, I can hardly see a problem here. *Tю-тю* clearly imitates the whistle of a locomotive. Doesn't it?


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## AndrzejR

In Polish I see only _ciut-ciut_. I means a little bit.


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## Crescent

scriptum said:


> Well, I can hardly see a problem here. *Tю-тю* clearly imitates the whistle of a locomotive. Doesn't it?



Haha, that's interesting, Scriptum! I must admit that I didn't think of that.. 
Well, if your theory is correct (and I must say that it seems pretty sensible to me!) then I can kind of see how the russian *тю-тю* is connected to locomotives: perhaps it is the idea of trains leaving the platform and going off to somewhere far away which invokes this _тю-тю_ produced by the steaming engines?


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## Sophia211

This тю-тю reminds me of a similar sound in Bulgarian. It has about the same meaning, but mostly it’s used with children, when we want to tell them something is gone J
But I think it is some sort of onomatopoeia – the train in Bulgarian “says” something like “ту-ту-у(т)” or “тю-тю-ю(т)”J


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## scriptum

Crescent said:


> perhaps it is the idea of trains leaving the platform and going off to somewhere far away which invokes this _тю-тю_ produced by the steaming engines?


 
On second thought, maybe тю-тю should be seen in a larger context. The sound of a pipe or a bird song seems to have been always connected with the idea of disappointment: cf. the flute of Pan, the flute of Marsyas, the sirens’ song, etc etc all the way to George Brassens’ petit joueur de flûteau. Moreover, mark the French word “turlututu” meaning exactly the same thing as дудки in Russian.
On the contrary, the strings sound reassuring. For example: Apollo’s cithara, king David’s harp and Bulat Okudjava’s «со мной моя гитара и пачка сигарет». A good subject for a doctorate, isn’t it.


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## Maja

Maroseika said:


> Тю-тю is an interjection meaning that something has dissapeared (negative connotation)


We do say "tja" (equivalent to say  English "tut"), but as far as I know it has nothing to do with things  disappearing. (You should wait for other natives' opinion, though. )


mcibor said:


> In Polish there is a similar sound, but it's not a word and I have never seen it written (nowhere, nor in books, not forums, nor chat)
> it's a sound you make with your tounge and teeth called in Polish "cmokanie" (couldn't find it in dictionary, though). You make it while inhaling, not exhaling. As if saying Polish letter "c" on inhaling, it's a short sound.


In Serbian we call it *coktanje* (verb coktati) and it is a regular word, usually used to express negation or disapproval.


Maroseika said:


> I think I know what you mean, and in Russian this interjection also is not written, but only is described somehow, something like: И он озабоченно *поцокал языком*.


We also say *coktati jezikom*. 



Maroseika said:


> Polish *ciuciu *and Russian чух-чух imitate locomotive and are therefore evidently onomatopoetic.
> But what might imitate *тю-тю*? I have only one very weak hypothesis, that it might be a distorted *фью/фьють*, i.e. a sound of whistling, because *свистнуть - to give a whistle = to steal.*


(Pre)*Svisnuti *in Serbian means "to succumb (to grief, sorrow)". 
_Svisnuo je od tuge._ (He died of grief.)
_Srce joj je svislo (previslo) od očajanja._ (Her heart was breaking (broke) with despair.)


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## Maroseika

Maja said:


> (Pre)*Svisnuti *in Serbian means "to succumb (to grief, sorrow)".
> _Svisnuo je od tuge._ (He died of grief.)
> _Srce joj je svislo (previslo) od očajanja._ (Her heart was breaking (broke) with despair.)


What does mean *svisnuti* in Serbian - to whistle or to  hang down?


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## Maja

Maroseika said:


> What does mean *svisnuti* in Serbian - to whistle or to  hang down?


Neither. 
It means to "succumb to grief or sorrow", to be crashed by grief/sorrow. 
The usual form is "svisnuti od tuge/bola".

To whistle is *zviždati *(*звиждати*).


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## Maroseika

Maja said:


> Neither.
> It means to "succumb to grief or sorrow", to be crashed by grief/sorrow.
> The usual form is "svisnuti od tuge/bola".
> 
> To whistle is *zviždati *(*звиждати*).


But has svisnuti anything to do with visnuti (to hang)?


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## Maroseika

Sophia211 said:


> This тю-тю reminds me of a similar sound in Bulgarian. It has about the same meaning, but mostly it’s used with children, when we want to tell them something is gone J
> But I think it is some sort of onomatopoeia – the train in Bulgarian “says” something like “ту-ту-у(т)” or “тю-тю-ю(т)”J


Actually this version seems to me very attractive: the lost thing has disappeared like a train with only *tu-tu* instead of good-bye.
However there is phoneticl problem: in Russian train also says tu-tu. Why then it has softened in our interjection of loss  *t'u-t'u*?


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> Actually this version seems to me very attractive: the lost thing has disappeared like a train with only *tu-tu* instead of good-bye.
> However there is phoneticl problem: in Russian train also says tu-tu. Why then it has softened in our interjection of loss  *t'u-t'u*?



I may of course be far from correct, but in my opinion, perhaps there isn't a real reason, as such, for this, and instead this expression has altered to become ''тю-тю'' simply because of going from person to person. It's similar to how fairytales and folk tales change ever so slightly because as each person tells them, he adds a little more of ''himself'' to them, or perhaps forgets or changes the details. 
Sorry, I don't mean to go off topic..
Just a suggestion.


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## Sophia211

I kind of agree with Crescent on this 
I think that is why in Bulgarian the train goes both "тю-тю" and "ту-ту". I've just heard different people say it differently. Also, it's a kid word, and kids sometimes like to exagerrate pronunciation, so maybe they're responsible for such a transformation 

And yeah, I forgot to mention that to me it also seems like the sound indicated the thing has disappeared like a train, leving only a "тю-тю" behind


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## Crescent

I'm glad you agree, Sophia! Looks like I'm not the only crazy one!   (please don't be offended- I mean that, of course, in the kindest of ways with a little pinch of humour!  ) 

Ladies and gentlement: I have just had an interesting thought! If I'm right, (which is a rare thing), then we (in russian) also use this phrase ''тю-тю'' to say that someone is crazy, don't we? 
In the sense of:
- А можно я возьму и выкину это из окна?
 (Can I take this and throw it out of the window?)
- Ты что, совсем уже "*тю-тю*", что ли?! 
 (Are you out of your mind, or something?!)
But of course, the stage directions which go along with the dialogue are quite essential too: one puts his finger(s) to his temple and twists it ever so slightly in the clockwise direction. 

I wonder what this side of ''тю-тю'' has to do with departing trains and travelling..


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## Maja

Maroseika said:


> But has svisnuti anything to do with visnuti (to hang)?


 It is *visiti* (to hang) in Serbian. So no, the  two are not related!


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> Ladies and gentlement: I have just had an interesting thought! If I'm right, (which is a rare thing), then we (in russian) also use this phrase ''тю-тю'' to say that someone is crazy, don't we?
> In the sense of:
> - А можно я возьму и выкину это из окна?
> (Can I take this and throw it out of the window?)
> - Ты что, совсем уже "*тю-тю*", что ли?!
> (Are you out of your mind, or something?!)


You know, Crescent, I'm afraid I've never heard this interjection in this sense.
However, *ты что, совсем* *ку-ку*? is very common.


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## Juri

In Slovenian dictionary(SAZU) there are more onomatopoeic interjections like _tlesk, trr, tresk_ and also *ts,ts,ts.* The last one adding to expressions of disapproval or surprise.

A curious usage: in all theatres of former Yougoslavia, befor opening night you may not wish to performers good luck, or "in wolf's mouth"(as in Italy), or "Hals und Beinbruch" (as in Germany), but only " *Tui,tui,tui*".
Seems to be a french use.(Perhaps: spit,spit,spit)


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## mcibor

niko said:


> Well, it means nothing, it just evokes a kind of quick movement, or a whistle, mostly used when something disappears. With the example of the car, it suits well for example :
> "J'laisse ma caisse ouverte près du magasin, et quand j'reviens, pfuiiit la bagnole!
> (voluntarily slanguish, because this kind of onomatopoeic stuff doesn't suit with formal language  )





Thomas1 said:


> We have also _fju fju_ it's usually the onomatopoeia for the twiter or even warble (?) of birds (e.g. of a sparrow).
> Tom



To say the truth, in Polish fiu (with prolonged u) can also mean gone in a sense of movement, but it doesn't have negative connotation to it. It is connected to birds, but only implies their flying, not songs.

Another interesting aspect is that fiu fiu (first has intonation rising, second fiu has falling) means amazement and even awe.

PS. Tom, you sure it's fju fju, not fiu fiu? Wikipedia says both...


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## Darina

Sophia211 said:


> I kind of agree with Crescent on this
> I think that is why in Bulgarian the train goes both "тю-тю" and "ту-ту".


Yes, Bulgarian trains are very special ones. 
Sorry, I cannot be serious with such a funny topic!


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## Amynka

HaHAha, a really funny word! 

I think in Bulgaria we still use it, but it is usual in the North more than in the South of the country. My grandfather (and northener) uses it regularly when his horse causes troubles . He also uses it when the water or electricity prices increase.  It's something like "me cachis en la mar" in Spanish or the English "Ohhh my!"/ "Damn" - a type of exaggeration. But it sounds funnier because of its ancient origin.


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## Amynka

Sophia211 said:


> I kind of agree with Crescent on this
> I think that is why in Bulgarian the train goes both "тю-тю" and "ту-ту". I've just heard different people say it differently. Also, it's a kid word, and kids sometimes like to exagerrate pronunciation, so maybe they're responsible for such a transformation


 
Hm, I've never heared people saying "ту-ту"  with the particular meaning of "тю-тю". Moreover, I think you are confusing the "тю-тю" which is a large "Тююююююю!" with the "ту-ту" of the trains . 

As well, I strongly desagree with your comment on that it is a kid's word. All in contrast, its properly of old people.


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## outminded

According to Fasmer's etimologic dictionary
 тю, *Ближайшая этимология:* тю, тю! -- подзывание кур, вятск. (Васн.), _тюґтя_ "курица", также "тихоня", вятск. (там же). Ономатопоэтическое.

What means  _onomatopoeia_?


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## Juri

Onomatopoeia is a combination of two Greek words (name+to make);an imitative word, as Slovenian "čivkati" - to peep of birds.


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## Crescent

outminded said:


> According to Fasmer's etimologic dictionary
> тю, *Ближайшая этимология:* тю, тю! -- подзывание кур, вятск. (Васн.), _тюґтя_ "курица", также "тихоня", вятск. (там же). Ономатопоэтическое.
> 
> What means  _onomatopoeia_?



Onomatopoeia, as far as I know, are words, which are written exactly as the sound that they produce. For example, the word ''to creak'' (скрипеть) when pronounced, produces that ''eeeek'' sound with it's double vowel (''ea'') which is very much alike the sound that a door produces when it is being opened (or closed) on its hinges, which have long turned rusty and haven't been oiled for a long time. 

Another example would be ''miau'' - the sound a cat produces is similar to the way a human would produce the word ''_miau_''. And so on.
Надеюсь, Вам теперь все ясно, Outminded.


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## Kolan

Well, *тю-тю* in Russian represents for me a more-or-less clear sound of whistling. Also, *свистнуть (to whistle one time)* as slang means *to steal*. Famous joke, "Где мои часы? (чтобы узнать время) - Без пяти минут как свистнули", (were stolen five minutes to now) is just about that.

What do you think, guys?


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## Maroseika

Kolan said:


> Well, *тю-тю* in Russian represents for me a more-or-less clear sound of whistling. Also, *свистнуть (to whistle one time)* as slang means *to steal*. Famous joke, "Где мои часы? (чтобы узнать время) - Без пяти минут как свистнули", (were stolen five minutes to now) is just about that.
> 
> What do you think, guys?


This idea has been already discussed here, starting with the message # 10.


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> This idea has been already discussed here, starting with the message # 10.


Пардон, читал невнимательно. Просто пришёл в голову каламбур с часами (кажется, это была эстрадная реприза 30-х годов).


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## Crescent

Kolan said:


> Well, *тю-тю* in Russian represents for me a more-or-less clear sound of whistling. Also, *свистнуть (to whistle one time)* as slang means *to steal*. Famous joke, "Где мои часы? (чтобы узнать время) - Без пяти минут как свистнули", (were stolen five minutes to now) is just about that.
> 
> What do you think, guys?


Hi there, Kolan.  
I admit that readin what you said about ''тю-тю'' sounding like a whistle, immedieately made me think of: Ути-ути... To be honest, I'm not entirely sure where ducks come into this, but...

Не смотря на то, что я знала, что глагол "свиснуть" можно использовать в качестве "украсть", но, если честно, первый раз столкнулась в Вашим интересным каламбуром! Хаха, надо будет запомнит и потом друзей смешить. 
However, are you sure that _свистнуть_ is translated into English as ''_to whistle one time_''?  I've never heard that expression in english before and to be honest, it doesn't seem to make much sense...
Is that, perhas, what they say in America?


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## Kolan

There is also a popular expression about the morning after a drunk party, "головка - бо-бо, денежки - *тю-тю*", headache, and money's gone.


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## Kolan

Crescent said:


> However, are you sure that _свистнуть_ is translated into English as ''_to whistle one time_''?  I've never heard that expression in english before and to be honest, it doesn't seem to make much sense...
> Is that, perhas, what they say in America?


Well, my English is not perfect and I do not know much neither about America, nor of the English worldwide. Canadian people, especially those of Francophones, culturally are far not the same compared to the Americans.

I implied that there is a clear difference between *cвистеть* and *свистнуть*, and in order to indicate that I had to use something similar to "one-time purchase". I do not know how to indicate otherwise that *свистнуть* means a single short action of whistling (and may be understood for that reason as a quick action of stealing), often directed to attract someone's attention, whereas *cвистеть* is reserved for only indefinite whistling and never means stealing.

The ducks are irrelevant to the all of above.


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