# Italian: Gatto (cat)



## Mahaodeh

I know it's a small and simple question, but does anyone know the etymology of the Italian gatto (cat)?


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## miguel89

Hello,

It comes from Late Latin "cattus", which is likely to have had ultimately an Afro-Asiatic origin (cf. Nubian kadis, Berber kadiska, both meaning "cat"). Arabic "qitt" may be related to it.

Source: etymonline.com


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## Corsicum

*Cf. :*
http://www.etimo.it/?term=gatto&find=Cerca
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cat


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## origumi

In Hebrew it's "Chatul". Appears in the Talmud (Bavli, Eruvin 100:b):

אמר רבי יוחנן אילמלא לא ניתנה תורה היינו למידין צניעות מ*חתול* וגזל מנמלה

Can anyone enlighten me about the origin of the Hebrew חתול? Is it related to Latin catullus / catulus?


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## sokol

As given by Corsicum's link (the second one) Latin 'cattus' goes back to Nubian 'kadis' and/or Berberian 'kadiska', and Arab 'qitt' may be related: so the root 'qt' might be the same as in Hebrew 'Chatul' if the Hebrew letter 'ch' would be corresponding (historically) to Arab 'q'.

So relating back to 'Catul' then really would be pointless, that is *if *'chatul' is meaning 'cat' and related to Arab 'qitt' - except if you mean 'Catul' in Hebrew: unfortunately this bit of information is not given in your post, or at least it is not clear to me if you mean that or 'cat'.


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## Outsider

See also this other thread.


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## federicoft

According to the first source provided by Corsicum, Latin 'cattus' is likely to have a Celtic-Germanic root.


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## sokol

federicoft said:


> According to the first source provided by Corsicum, Latin 'cattus' is likely to have a Celtic-Germanic root.


It would be tracing back to the same root as Celto-Germanic, according to this source, yes; the common origin of all those words meaning 'cat' or 'tomcat' is not disputed.

But when considering other sources (like _Kluge, Etymologisches Wörterbuch _which states that etymology is unclear but that comparisons with northern African languages sound good) I'd say that the second link, etymonline.com, is more up-to-date.
Kluge also mentions that this is an Indoeuropean loan - it exists in most European branches but it isn't common and not 'native' IE.

The Italian site only mentions the Arab theory; of course there seems to be no proof if the word really goes back to Nubian or Berberian - that's a theory only so far, but one that offers more than the one on etimo.it, I'd say.
(Especially as our cats are supposed to have been imported from that region; they aren't natives of Europe: it would only be logical that pet and the name for it came in a 'package'. )


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## berndf

origumi said:


> Is it related to Latin catullus / catulus?


A Latin loan word is not very likely. The Latin _c_ was usually assimilated as a _qof_ as in קיסריה. The modern pronunciation of _het_ like _chaf _emerged much later in the European Diaspora.


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## origumi

berndf said:


> A Latin loan word is not very likely


 
I made the assumption about borrowing from Latin trying to understand where L at the end of chatul comes from - it doesn't appear in any of the "cat" variations listed above, either European, African, or Middle Eastern. Neither a common Hebrew suffix.

Regarding c -> ch, none of the examples I can think of is c -> ח, only c -> ק, כ, ג, like in כרכרה, קרון = carrus, קרקס = circus, pellex = פלגש (this one in more likely from Greek pallakis).

There could be an ancient relation between Latin *-cido *(= cut) to Hebrew *חתך* (and dozens of related verbs like חטב, קצץ, גזם, גדר, קטע). Yet I agree that this is irrelevant to our discussion because such relation (if real) is 1000s years older than the borrowing of חתול.


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## Mahaodeh

Thank you very much guys, actually my second question was to wonder if it has any relation to Arabic qiT and English cat; but it seems you already discussed that , in short, can we say that there is a possibility of relation but nothing conclusive has been found?


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## sokol

Yes you're right, Mahaodeh - the relation to Berberian/Nubian seems to be likely (which, in turn, might be the source for Arabic), but this just counts as a theory rather than a fact.


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## origumi

Interesting comments (cats in various languages) here:
zzz.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2wo/wort/idg/deutsch/i-p/katze.htm (replace zzz by www, I'm not permitted to post links).


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## sokol

origumi said:


> zzz.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2wo/wort/idg/deutsch/i-p/katze.htm



For those not speaking German, the author of this site has gathered many names for 'cat' but doesn't provide a clear path for all those being related which his list suggests.

He thinks that the root originally did refer to another animal - namely "a (any) domestic animal which hunts vermin plagueing houses" - and only later became the name for 'cat'.
Personally I wouldn't go for this theory but prefer rather the conclusions drawn above.


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## dinji

Some rather complex discussion on the subject is found here. Especially if one surfs along further with the links.

On the issue of Hewrew _chatul(a)_: the phonetics may work better if one presupposes a borrowing into mediterranean languages from North-Western Semitic, transmitted by the Phoenicians already. 

Especially if the original had the uvular fricative (cf. Arabic _khamsa_ 'five´' Hebrew _chamisha_ 'five') a substitution with a velar plosive could be the closest option eg. in early greek or pre-Latin. 

Arabic could have _qitt-_ from a non-Semitic language later.

What do you think?


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## sokol

dinji said:


> Arabic could have _qitt-_ from a non-semitic language later.


Quite an interesting discussion over there, yes; that one on how Arabic could have loaned the word from Northwestern Semitic dialects where there was a vowel weakening process /a > i/ could be a nice explanation of how this word could have been loaned from Greek and/or Latin to NW Semitic to Arabic.

(As explained there this path was reconstructed because Arabic <diphn-/diphl-> from Koiné Greek <Daphne> shows similar vowel weakening. I can only assume that else for Arabic such vowel weakening wouldn't be very typical, meaning that the vowel change should have happened in another language than Arabic.)

But of course I would be the wrong person to ask about that one as I hardly know anything about Semitic languages; I only can say that the theory sounds good to my ears.


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## Mahaodeh

I don't know if it's worth mentioning, but in Arabic you actually have _six_ words for the domestic cat; so I don't think that it's far fetched that one of them (or even more) would be a loan. However, I would think that the loan is very old because the word is found in some pre-Islamic texts.


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## origumi

Mahaodeh said:


> I don't know if it's worth mentioning, but in Arabic you actually have _six_ words for the domestic cat;


 
Could you list them please (also in Latin transscription)?


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## Mahaodeh

Here they are:

male/female

قط/قطة = qiTT / qiTTa
بس/بسة = biss / bissa
هر/هرة = hirr / hirra
سنور/سنورة = sanoor / sanoor
ضيون/ضيونة = Dhayoon / Dhayoona
خيطل/خيطلة = khaiTal / khaiTala

I know the origin of number 2 and 3 based on Arabic dictionaries: biss is the sound that Arabs usually make call animals with, like when you want to call a cat you say "bis bis bis bis"; hirr was taken from the sound of purring in the cat. However, there is no mention of the etymology of the other four.


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## origumi

Thanks.

Two of them have Hebrew relatives: khaital = khatul חתול, sanoor = shunra שונרא. The latter is actually Aramaic.


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## sokol

Moderator note:

While these other Arab terms for 'cat' are interesting this thread should only focus on those words for 'cat' which are related to Italian 'gato' = Latin 'cattus'.
Please open new threads if you want to discuss other roots in more detail.

Thank you!
sokol


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## origumi

Taking into account that 2 of the 6 Arabic words and the main Hebrew word for cat are probably related to the Italian gatto, and that recent researches show that cats were first domesticated in the near east, Semitic-languages speaking area, I think that Arabic and Hebrew are not less relevant to the discussion than Amazigh etc.


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## sokol

origumi said:


> (...) I think that Arabic and Hebrew are not less relevant to the discussion than Amazigh etc.



To leave no misunderstanding here, of course is perfectly on topic to discuss Arabic "qiTT, khaiTal" and Hebrew "khatul".
I did refer to Hebrew "shunra" and Arabic "sanoor" who might very well be closely related - but if you want to discuss those please open a new thread.


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## ravivararo

In Tamil, there are several cognate words for cat

அலவன் alavaṉ, _n_.Cat; பூனை. (பிங்.) compare  Gk. ailouros "cat

இற்புலி iṟpuli, _n_. cat; பூனை compare Arab هر/هرة-hirr / hirra

பில்லி² pilli, _n_. [Telugu,  Kannada. _pilli_.] Cat; பூனை. compare Latin. feles (gen. felis) "cat, wild cat, marten, English feline, Hindi billi

பூச்சை pūchchai, _n_. < பூசை¹. [Malayalam. _pūcca_.] Cat; பூனை.

பூசை¹ pūsai, _n_. cf. பூனை. 1. Cat; பூனை.Compare English  puss, pussy, Romanian pisica,  Lith. puz, Low Ger. puus, Swed. dial. katte-pus,بس/بسة = biss / bissa

கடுவன் kaduvaṉ, _n_. [Malayalam. _kaḍuvaṉ_.] . Tom-cat; ஆண்பூனை. Comapare Arb. قط/قطة = qiTT / qiTTa, L.L. cattus, Nubian kadis, Berber kadiska


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## berndf

ravivararo said:


> In Tamil, there are several cognate words for cat


In most of what you wrote I can see only vague similarities, no cognates. Can you substantiate your statements?

As a moderator, let me remind you of rule 15 of the EHL forum:
EHL is not a venue to launch or expand on private pet theories, pseudo-linguistic ponderings, idiosyncratic and fringe ideas. *This also includes theories based upon random lists of similarly looking words*, chance coincidences, wild speculations or associations and other pseudo-linguistic and pre-scientific methods.


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## origumi

ravivararo said:


> இற்புலி iṟpuli, _n_. cat; பூனை compare Arab هر/هرة-hirr / hirra
> பூசை¹ pūsai, _n_. cf. பூனை. 1. Cat; பூனை.Compare English puss, pussy, Romanian pisica, Lith. puz, Low Ger. puus, Swed. dial. katte-pus,بس/بسة = biss / bissa


As Mahaodeh noted, these two Arabic words for cat are onomatopoeic (or at least based on sounds). Doesn't it weaken the assumption that the Tamil words are cognate to the Arabic?


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## nic4

*Moderator Note:*
*New questions, old topic. Moved to this thread.*


Hello everybody,

Does the word cat come from Latin _cattus_ or is there any chance that it has Arabic roots, as in Arab is _quitt_? They are very similar..
قِطَّ


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## Orion7

The word _cat_ is of Persian origin and comes from _*katas < kas + tas_ 'what's that' (Latvian _kas_ 'what', _tas_ 'that').
There's a legend (© by me ), as it's known, the homeland of cat is Northeast Africa (around Egypt), when ancient Persians for first time got see a cat they exclaimеd: «Kas tas?» 'What's that?', Egyptians thought, that Persians are calling the animals name, so from this time on the cat was called _katas_. From _katas_ later were derived the forms of other languages _katus, katis, kaţis (kaķis), kadis, kot, cat, kate, katze, gatto_ etc.


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## sokol

Orion7 said:


> There's a legend (© by me ), as it's known, the homeland of cat is Northeast Africa (around Egypt), when ancient Persians for first time got see a cat they exclaimеd: «Kas tas?» 'What's that?' ...


Actually such etymologies exist in some (quite rare) cases (like French - and Italian - 'vasistas') but as funny as this one sounds we still need some hard facts to support this legend of yours; as long as there's no further evidence we will have to consider this as pure folk etymology.


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