# Hyphenated-Americans



## scotu

Do terms like "African-American, Italian-American, whatever-American", imply that perhaps hyphenated Americans are not "100%" American but are really only part American and part whatever? 
(Note that "white American" does not have a hyphen.)

Are non-majority populations classified in this way in other parts of the world?

scotu


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## DrWatson

Well, in Finland there's a major minority group of Swedish-speaking Finns. You can't exactly classify them as "hyphenated-Finns", since Finnish doesn't use hyphen in the Finnish term, *suomenruotsalaiset*. But to my understanding, Swedish-speaking Finns differentiate between their identity and the Swedish national identity. They don't consider themselves as Swedes in Finland, but rather Finns who speak Swedish.

I think that having the country of origin in the name doesn't imply that they're not 100% citizens of the country they immigrated to. It's just a way of remembering the roots and cherishing the heritage and traditions of the country of emigration.


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## mally pense

> Note that "white American" does not have a hyphen.)


 
I realise that this is a bit of a linguistic side issue, but that's possibly because "white" is an ordinary adjective so wouldn't take a hyphen in any case (and neither, presumably would "black American"). Whether this would be different if "white" (or "black") were capitalised is another matter...



> Are non-majority populations classified in this way in other parts of the world?


 
I stand to be corrected on this, but in the UK, I think we tend to refer to everyone as "British" and get all embarrassed when it comes to discussing ethnic origin. Alternative, people will perhaps a little naively (or worse) be described simply according to their family roots despite the fact that they, and possibly their parents too, were born and bred in the UK. Either way, it seems to me that the hypenated option is not commonly used here - though as I say, I could be wrong.


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## Outsider

scotu said:


> Are non-majority populations classified in this way in other parts of the world?


In Portugal, sometimes people say things like _luso-brasileiro_, where the prefix _luso-_ means "Portuguese". This applies both to immigrants into Portugal and to Portuguese expatriates in foreign countries. So, a Brazilian immigrant in Portugal is _luso-brasileiro_, and a Portuguese immigrant in Brazil is also _luso-brasileiro_. This is mostly used for 1st. or 2nd. generation migrants.

But these ethnonyms are not used very often. When referring to someone's ancestry or country of origin it's more common to use terms like "Brazilian" or "Capeverdian" or "Ukrainian". I would say these terms are used with some liberty; the same person may describe himself as "Capeverdian" or "Portuguese", depending on the circumstances.


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## Vanda

IMHO it has more to do with linguistic issues than to cultural issues themselves. Taking Outsider example about luso-brasileiros, we'd hyphenate all adjectives referring to two nations, independently of being or not a minority. Other examples: sino-brasileiro (for Chinese), ítalo-brasileiro, nipo-brasileiro (for Japanese), franco-brasileiro (for French) and so on. 
I am not sure if this applies to all languages, though.


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## cruxcriticorum

I don't think the hyphen is reserved for minorities in America.  Euro-Americans comprise the majority and get the hyphen, too.


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## scotu

cruxcriticorum said:


> I don't think the hyphen is reserved for minorities in America. Euro-Americans comprise the majority and get the hyphen, too.


 
Have you ever seen the word *Euro-Americans* actually used in the USA other than in a historical sense to distingush early imigrants form the native population?

scotu


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## mally pense

> Have you ever seen the word *Euro-Americans* actually used in the USA other than in a historical sense to distingush early imigrants form the native population?


I was wondering that too, but didn't want to appear ignorant. However I have to admit (now) that I don't specifically recall seeing the term, though perhaps in the UK I would be less likely to be exposed to it in any case.


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## MarcB

In the US there are Irish-Americans ( insert any ethnic name)which are one of the largest ethnic groups. Also many people self identify as Irish, German, Welsh without the -American and many of them have been in the US for generations. So it is not limited to minorities.


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## LaReinita

MarcB said:


> In the US there are Irish-Americans ( insert any ethnic name)which are one of the largest ethnic groups. Also many people self identify as Irish, German, Welsh without the -American and many of them have been in the US for generations. So it is not limited to minorities.


 
And to be honest, who is a minority here anymore? . . We are a rainbow of ethnicities and cultures!


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## Brioche

MarcB said:


> In the US there are Irish-Americans ( insert any ethnic name)which are one of the largest ethnic groups. Also many people self identify as Irish, German, Welsh without the -American and many of them have been in the US for generations. So it is not limited to minorities.



If these "Irish", "Germans" or "Welsh" folk go to Ireland, Germany or Wales they will be 100% American as far as the locals are concerned. The same goes for "African-Americans", who would be 100% American if they visted Africa.

From what I have heard, African-Americans, [that is, descendants of slaves], are not particularly welcoming to just plain Africans newly-arrived from Africa. And naturally, they deny whites from Africa the right to call themselves African-American.

Your use of the word "minorities" is interesting.
In the 2000 Census of the USA, 10.8% of the US population claimed Irish ancestry, 12.9% identified as Black, and 12.5% as Hispanic. So as "minorities" go, the Irish are smaller minority than Blacks or Hispanics.

I think hyphenating beyond the first generation is rather silly. The grand-children of most immigrants to the US would not be accepted in the old "home" country. Very, very few would have any language skills, and they would be quite different culturally. Most wouldn't even have a right of abode.


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## Trevobrien

Genealogically speaking, I think most people here are a little bit Irish, a little bit English, a little bit German, Scottish, French, Italian and Polish etc etc.


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## Sepia

I already see it coming:

In future the only acceptable terms that are considered PC,

 are

hyphenated Americans

and 

non-hyphenated Americans

(Please note that "non-hyphenated Americans" should be written with a hyphen - VERY important!)


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## scotu

Sepia said:


> I already see it coming:
> 
> In future the only acceptable terms that are considered PC,
> 
> are
> 
> hyphenated Americans
> 
> and
> 
> non-hyphenated Americans
> 
> (Please note that "non-hyphenated Americans" should be written with a hyphen - VERY important!)


Oh, thank you for your support, I was afraid that in the future anything American might not be "PC". I´m glad for your opinion that at least there will be two PC posibilities for us.


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## Chaska Ñawi

We still hyphenate Canadians regularly, with one notable exception.

In many Ontario municipalities, suspects wanted by the police are no longer described by race.  Last week a black suspect wanted for 2 murders was described by height, eye colour and "black curly hair".  This seems to be carrying political correctness a little far.


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## Moon Palace

Brioche said:


> Your use of the word "minorities" is interesting.
> In the 2000 Census of the USA, 10.8% of the US population claimed Irish ancestry, 12.9% identified as Black, and 12.5% as Hispanic. So as "minorities" go, the Irish are smaller minority than Blacks or Hispanics.
> 
> I think hyphenating beyond the first generation is rather silly. The grand-children of most immigrants to the US would not be accepted in the old "home" country. Very, very few would have any language skills, and they would be quite different culturally. Most wouldn't even have a right of abode.



I wholly agree with you Brioche. Now, although it does not make sense on the whole, there is this need to feel one belongs to a community that fuels the debate, and makes such hyphenated words live longer than they should. 
Isn't all this linked to the core debate on identity, and all the more so in a global world where people can live in a country, originate from another, and vote in a third whose regime and lifestyle they love? 
Why has the dreadful French phrase  (warning!!) 'Français de souche' suddenly popped up if not to distinguish people from one another? Because some people unfortunately need to find an identity in opposition with another one, and I believe African-Americans, Asian-Americans... are as many words that allow people to feel they are not 'just' Americans (as if it was not enough in one's lifetime to be American or English or French for that matter), and to appear different. So that possibly one day they / we will be *recognized* as different. 
Sorry, I have drifted away, but I only wanted to show this is a much wider debate than an American one, and it comes down to a question of identity as I see it.


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## Outsider

Chaska Ñawi said:


> In many Ontario municipalities, suspects wanted by the police are no longer described by race.  Last week a black suspect wanted for 2 murders was described by height, eye colour and "black curly hair".  This seems to be carrying political correctness a little far.


Did they not mention that he was dark-skinned?


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## Chaska Ñawi

Outsider said:


> Did they not mention that he was dark-skinned?



They did not - nary a hint about skin colour.


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## EmilyD

This morning I heard the phrase:  *Utah-Americans *on the radio. The context was the recent collapsed coal mine in Utah, and I believe, the speaker either administered or owned the mine or was a public office-holder. In other words, it was not a facetious reference.

I've never heard that expression before.  For states with more syllables this could be challenging:  _Rhode Island-Americans??_( the official name of RI is actually: The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations--longest name for the smallest state). I kind of like the sound, however, of Wyoming-Americans.

I have called myself a *European-American *on many occasions. (My father was born in Berlin to Latvian and Polish parents, my maternal great grands' were from Russia and Germany).
_
Nomi _


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## Outsider

EmilyD said:


> This morning I heard the phrase:  *Utah-Americans *on the radio.


If you heard it on the radio, how do you know there was a hyphen in it? Maybe it was "Utah Americans", that is "Americans from Utah".


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## EmilyD

Google reveals thousands of references to *Utahans* and *Utahns*.  Both words refer to people from/in Utah.

You are right.  The "hyphen" I heard was of my own making.

Moderators:  Feel free to edit the first two paragraphs of my post, or the entire thing!

Thanks, Outsider!

Nomi


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## mplsray

scotu said:


> Do terms like "African-American, Italian-American, whatever-American", imply that perhaps hyphenated Americans are not "100%" American but are really only part American and part whatever?
> (Note that "white American" does not have a hyphen.)
> 
> Are non-majority populations classified in this way in other parts of the world?
> 
> scotu


 
President Theodore Roosevelt objected to "hyphenated Americans." He meant by that not naturalized Americans, but Americans who continued to identify themselves with a nationality or ethnicity in addition to identifying themselves as Americans. He would, it would seem, object to _native-American_ as well (I expect he had in mind European-Americans who were born in the US). His speech can be read here.

Modern nationality or ethnic terms attached to _American_ (usually with a hyphen) have the function of emphasizing that the person is an American, I think. An _African_ is distinguished from an _African-American_--in fact, most American blacks would object to being called "an African," which makes names such as the _First African Methodist Church_ a sort of linguistic fossil of the same sort as the _National Association for the Advancement of Colored People_--and an _Italian_ distinguished from an _Italian-American._ You still find certain Americans referring to themselves by the shorter designation: _Italian_ for _Italian-American_ and _Greek_ for _Greek-American,_ but I expect that if people who use the shorter term were writing a formal paper, they would describe themselves using the hyphenated term.


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## scotu

mplsray said:


> President Theodore Roosevelt objected to "hyphenated Americans." He meant by that not naturalized Americans, but Americans who continued to identify themselves with a nationality or ethnicity in addition to identifying themselves as Americans. He would, it would seem, object to _native-American_ as well (I expect he had in mind European-Americans who were born in the US). His speech can be read here..


 
This is quite a speech, thanks for sharing. this part seems especially on point:


> But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance."    President Theodore Roosevelt


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