# Among many midwives the child is lost



## szivike

In *Hungarian* we have this saying "Sok bába közt elvész a gyerek.", literally meaning "Among many midwives the child is lost". 
We use it to refer to a situation where nothing gets done because too many people are in charge.

I'm wondering if it exists in other languages like this, or if not what would you use to refer to a situation like this.

Thanks in advance!


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## sound shift

I don't know any English sayings about midwives, but this reminds me of the expression "Too many cooks spoil the broth."


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## Awwal12

> In Hungarian we have this saying "Sok bába közt elvész a gyerek.", literally meaning "Among many midwives the child is lost".


Amazing!  In *Russian*, we say: "у семи нянек дитя без глазу" (u sem*i* ny*a*nek d*i*tya bez gl*a*zu) - literally "seven nannies have a child without an eye".


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## jazyk

Something I've heard in Brazil: Cachorro que tem muito dono morre de fome. (Dogs with many masters starve.)


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
Ὀπου λαλούν πολλοί κοκόροι, αργεί να ξημερώσει
'opu la'lun po'li ko'kori ar'ʝi na ksime'rosi
"where many roosters crow, it dawns late"

(no midwives, other people or dogs but...roosters)


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## DenisBiH

In Bosnian (and other BCMS languages)

*Gdje je puno baba kilava su djeca.*

I believe that its literal translation would be "Where there are many midwives, the children are (born) with hernia".


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## Awwal12

Hm... It looks like the Hungarian proverb is of Slavic origin after all. ) At least the opposite is hardly believable.


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## Orlin

DenisBiH said:


> In Bosnian (and other BCMS languages)
> 
> *Gdje je puno baba kilava su djeca.*
> 
> I believe that its literal translation would be "Where there are many midwives, the children are (born) with hernia".


 
It is quite similar in Bulgarian: _Много баби, хилаво дете_. (_Mnogo babi,_ _hilavo dete_. Approximate literal translation: Many grandmothers, a feeble child.)


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## DenisBiH

Almost the same. There seems to be a version in singular in BCMS too (_gdje je puno baba kilavo je dijete_) according to Google, but I haven't heard it personally.

_Baba_ also means an elderly woman or a grandmother in BCMS, but in this context I believe it was used as _babica_  - _primalja_, "midwife", though I presume that is also related to the original meaning of _baba_. As for _kilav(a/o)_, colloquially it often means "clumsy", at least where I live (Sarajevo), but for this translation "with hernia" (_kila_ - hernia) made more sense to me.


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## Orlin

Btw, DenisBiH, možete da mi pišete na bosanskom ili svakom drugom BCMS jezikom.


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## DenisBiH

Znam Orline, vidio sam da odlično vladate našim jezicima , ali sam se ovdje odlučio za engleski zbog toga što na ovom podforumu ima dosta čitatelja koji će prije na engleskom razumjeti.


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## Awwal12

I agree. Even if I myself understand BCMS texts someway, all non-Slavic members (who are the most numerous) would feel very uncomfortable, I believe. And even West Slavs, probably, too - I still remember a funny discussion about the phrase "what a..." in Polish and BCS, which indicated a great mutual misunderstanding...


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## DenisBiH

I also find it much easier to understand Eastern Slavic languages than Western Slavic. I never really learned Russian to any significant degree (except a rather short overview for personal interest), so it's either because of loanwords (OCS into Russian and Russian into Southern Slavic languages) or due to different genetic evolution of ES and SS compared to WS. Since Western Slavic areas are located in much of what is supposed to be (pre)historic Slavic core lands, and dialects in the core lands tend to be more divergent than those on the periphery maybe that is the reason. Or both. Or none, maybe it's just me.


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## Orlin

Awwal12 said:


> I agree. Even if I myself understand BCMS texts someway, all non-Slavic members (who are the most numerous) would feel very uncomfortable, I believe. And even West Slavs, probably, too - I still remember a funny discussion about the phrase "what a..." in Polish and BCS, which indicated a great mutual misunderstanding...


 
Can you give a link to this discussion? I also hope that the last posts won't be simply deleted for being completely off topic.


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## DenisBiH

Orlin said:


> I also hope that the last posts won't be simply deleted for being completely off topic.


Yes, I am also afraid that could happen. Maybe the kind moderators  could instead split them off into another thread, or join the posts to another thread that already dealt with this kind of thing.


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## Awwal12

Orlin said:


> Can you give a link to this discussion? I also hope that the last posts won't be simply deleted for being completely off topic.



Here you are.  The language was Croatian, though, but here it really doesn't matter, I suppose.


> I also find it much easier to understand Eastern Slavic languages than Western Slavic.


Even I found South Slavic languages much more easy to understand than West Slavic!  And that's despite of some Polish-Russian and Russian-Polish loanwords, and despite of Ukrainian and Belarusian languages which serve as linguistic bridges between Polish and Russian languages.

Actually, the role of (Old) Church Slavonic was great for the Russian language and hardly can be overestimated. Until XVIII century the Church Slavonic was a literary language of Russia; furthermore, the Bible existed only in its Church Slavonic version. It can be compared only with the role of Latin in medieval Romance-speaking countries of Europe. But different branches of Slavic languages were ~500 years younger, and that probably led Church Slavonic to suppress the further divergence more efficiently.


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## kudikamo

DenisBiH said:


> In Bosnian (and other BCMS languages)
> 
> *Gdje je puno baba kilava su djeca.*
> 
> I believe that its literal translation would be "Where there are many midwives, the children are (born) with hernia".



Također se kaže, u dalmatinskoj inačici hrvatskog:
* "Puno baba, kilava dica."*
Samo što ne mislim da ovdje "kilav" upućuje na "herniu", već prema Anićevom rječniku hrv. jezika:

KILAV= 2. (razgovorno, pejorativno): nesposoban za što, neokretan, usporen u kretnjama i odlukama


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## Angel.Aura

I can't recall any *Italian* saying involving midwives. 
We have a different saying for this kind of situation.
Troppi galli a cantare, non si fa mai giorno = Too many roosters crowing, and the day will never break.


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## DenisBiH

kudikamo said:


> Također se kaže, u dalmatinskoj inačici hrvatskog:
> * "Puno baba, kilava dica."*
> Samo što ne mislim da ovdje "kilav" upućuje na "herniu", već prema Anićevom rječniku hrv. jezika:
> 
> KILAV= 2. (razgovorno, pejorativno): nesposoban za što, neokretan, usporen u kretnjama i odlukama


Da, napomenuo sam i ja to poslije Orlinu, samo mi je više smisla imalo "puno babica pri porodu - defektno  dijete", nego "nespretno dijete". Čini se da Rusi također u svojoj verziji imaju defektnost (bez oka). Znam da ovo defektno ovdje grozno zvuči.

I možda važnije, _kilav_ kako i sam rječnik kaže je razgovorni oblik i pitanje je koliko je uopće star? Sad bi bilo zgodno imati pristup nekom pretraživom korpusu literature i vidjeti kad se pojavljuje ova poslovica a kad _kilav_ u značenju nesposoban/neokretan. Znam da meni _kilav_ u značenju nesposoban djeluje toliko slengovski da ga ne bih upotrijebio osim u veoma neformalnom govoru.


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## szivike

Thank you all for your answers, interesing findings. 
DenisBiH could you please translate your message into English? I'm interested in your answer but sadly I don't understand it.


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## kudikamo

LATIN: Multorum opere res turbantur.
ENG: Too many cooks spoil the broth.
GERMAN: Viele Koche verdeben den Brei.
IT: I troppi cuochi guastano la cucina.
FR: Trop de cuisiniers gatent le potage (ou, la sauce).

SOURCE:
Pavao Mikić & Danica Škarica. _Konstrastivni rječnik poslovica_. Zagreb: August Cesarec, 1992: pp.1-2.


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## Orlin

kudikamo said:


> Također se kaže, u dalmatinskoj inačici hrvatskog:
> *"Puno baba, kilava dica."*
> Samo što ne mislim da ovdje "kilav" upućuje na "herniu", već prema Anićevom rječniku hrv. jezika:
> 
> KILAV= 2. (razgovorno, pejorativno): nesposoban za što, neokretan, usporen u kretnjama i odlukama


 
Btw, sećam se da bugarska poslovica koju sam naveo ima varijantu s _келяво_ umesto _хилаво_. Mislim da je _келяв_ gotovo identično BCMS _kilav_.


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## Lamb67

In Chinese,when three monks live togehther,they would starve.

Only one monk, no problem,
Two, ok they are sharing,
Three, argument,argument,argument.


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## Trauer

Polish: Gdzie kucharek sześć, tam nie ma co jeść (Where's 6 female-cooks, there's nothing to eat).
Finnish: Mitä useampi kokki, sitä huonompi soppa (The more cooks the worse sauce/pottage).


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