# present perfect tense



## peruviangirl

Hello everybody,

I need to have a clear idea about this tense 'cause I was forgetting all the ways we use it...

For example, in the following sentence, we use this tense to talk about a situation that we did before, but we continue doing until now...

Have you ever been to Cuzco?
Yes, I have. *I've always been to Cuzco since 1992.* (this means that I moved to Cuzco in 1992, but I'm still there. In addition, it doesn't have accordance with the question, isn't it?)

For the same question: Have you ever been to Cuzco?
Would the answer be like that?
*Yes, I have. I went to Cuzco last year. (in this case, we use this tense with past tense and a specific time in past.)
No, I haven't. I've never been there.*

Please check these sentences... and tell if they're correct... also if you have more examples, please write them...

Have you seen the play? 
Yes, I have. I've *already * seen it.
No, I haven't. I haven't seen it *yet*.

Have you gone to a jazz club?
Yes, I have. I've *already * gone to several.
No, I haven't. I haven't gone to *yet*.

In this sentences, we talk about recent present situations and the questions were made to know if you've done these things recently... yep?

Thanks in advance.
Diana


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## Outsider

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Yes, I have. *I've always been to Cuzco since 1992.* (this means that I moved to Cuzco in 1992, but I'm still there. In addition, it doesn't have accordance with the question, isn't it?)


It sounds wrong to me. You should simply say "I've been (living) in Cuzco since 1992".



			
				peruviangirl said:
			
		

> For the same question: Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Would the answer be like that?
> *Yes, I have. I went to Cuzco last year. (in this case, we use this tense with past tense and a specific time in past.)
> No, I haven't. I've never been there.*
> 
> Have you seen the play?
> Yes, I have. I've *already * seen it.
> No, I haven't. I haven't seen it *yet*.
> 
> Have you gone to a jazz club?
> Yes, I have. I've *already * gone to several.
> No, I haven't. I haven't gone to *yet*.


The present perfect is used to talk about events that were initiated in the past, and _concluded before the present_.


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## charmedboi82

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> Hello everybody,
> 
> I need to have a clear idea about this tense 'cause I was forgetting all the ways we use it...
> 
> For example, in the following sentence, we use this tense to talk about a situation that we did before, but we continue doing until now...
> 
> Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Yes, I have. *I've always been to Cuzco since 1992.* (this means that I moved to Cuzco in 1992, but I'm still there. In addition, it doesn't have accordance with the question, isn't it?)Hmm, you can't say that, but you can say any of the following:
> I've been to Cuzco since 1992 (it means that you've been there at least one time since 1992). The sentence just doesn't work with the 'always'.
> I've been in Cuzco since 1992 (it means that you arrived in Cuzco in 1992 and haven't left).
> I've been living in Cuzco since 1992 (it means that you started living in Cuzco in 1992, are still living in Cuzco right now, and haven't lived anywhere else in the meantime).
> 
> For the same question: Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Would the answer be like that?
> *Yes, I have. I went to Cuzco last year. (in this case, we use this tense with past tense and a specific time in past.)
> No, I haven't. I've never been there.*
> 
> Please check these sentences... and tell if they're correct... also if you have more examples, please write them...
> 
> Have you seen the play (yet/already)?
> Yes, I have. I've *already * seen it.
> No, I haven't. I haven't seen it *yet*.
> 
> Have you gone to a jazz club?
> Yes, I have. I've *already * gone to several.
> No, I haven't. I haven't gone to *yet*.
> At least three options:
> I haven't gone to any *yet*.
> I haven't gone *yet*.
> I haven't gone to one *yet*.
> 
> In this sentences, we talk about recent present situations and the questions were made to know if you've done these things recently... yep?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Diana



You seem to understand the concept pretty well, . The parts in () are just optional. The only things that were wrong didn't relate specifically to the tense. You did very well with 'yet' and 'already'. Congratulations!

Have you done your homework already?
Yes, I have.
Yes, I did it already.
Yes, I have done it already (I think this one is more common in BE).

I haven't ever gone to Paris, but I really want to?  Have you (gone/ever been)?
Yes, I went last year.  You shouldn't feel bad though because I hadn't gone until last year (...I didn't go until last year).


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## panjandrum

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> Have you gone to a jazz club?
> Yes, I have. I've *already *gone to several.
> No, I haven't. I haven't gone to *yet*.


I agree with Outsider's comments on the rest, but this bit seems clunky to me and "I haven't gone to yet." is definitely wrong.

I would expect the question to be: 
"Have you been to a jazz club?"

"Yes I have. I've been to several." or "I've already been to several."

"No I haven't. I haven't been to any yet." or "No I haven't - not yet."

Am I the only one who thinks "Have you gone to a jazz club?" sounds strange?  It has the sense of "Are you at a jazz club?" for me


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## Outsider

Also, when we ask someone if they have _ever_ done somthing, at least once in their lives, we use the present perfect. We use the simple past if we're talking about a specific period in the past. Compare the following:

_'Have you ever been to Spain?' 'Yes, I have.' / 'No, I haven't.'
'Were you in Spain last year?' 'Yes, I was.' / 'No, I wasn't.'_

Just to make it a little more confusing, both sentences below are correct:

_'Did you go to Spain this year?' 'Yes, I did.' / 'No, I didn't.'
'Have you gone to Spain this year?' 'Yes, I have.' / 'No, I haven't.'_

The second sentence gives the conotation that going to Spain is something you do regularly, something that you're supposed to do. With the first sentence, going to Spain can be an isolated event.


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## germinal

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> Hello everybody,
> 
> I need to have a clear idea about this tense 'cause I have forgotten all the ways we use it...
> 
> For example, in the following sentence, we use this tense to talk about a situation that we did before, but we continue doing until now...
> 
> Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Yes, I have. *I have lived in Cuzco since 1992*(this means that I moved to Cuzco in 1992, but I'm still there. In addition, it doesn't have accordance with the question, isn't it?)
> 
> For the same question: Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Would the answer be like that?
> *Yes, I have. I went to Cuzco last year. (in this case, we use this tense with past tense and a specific time in past.)*
> *No, I haven't. I've never been there.*
> 
> Please check these sentences... and tell if they're correct... also if you have more examples, please write them...
> 
> Have you seen the play?
> Yes, I have. I've *already *seen it.
> No, I haven't. I haven't seen it *yet*.
> 
> Have you been to a jazz club?
> Yes, I have. I've *already been *to several.
> No, I haven't. I haven't been to one *yet*.
> 
> In this sentences, we talk about recent present situations and the questions were made to know if you've done these things recently... yep?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Diana


 
A few small corrections.   


Germinal.


.


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## panjandrum

OK, germinal & outsider - looks like we take lunch about the same time 

Sorry to bump this question from my last post, but it probably got lost in that flurry:

Am I the only one who thinks "Have you gone to a jazz club?" sounds strange? It has the sense of "Are you at a jazz club?" for me

It seems outsider is comfortable with it, germinal thinks it odd.


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## Outsider

Suppose you have recently arrived in New York, and you're staying at the house of some local friends of yours. One of your friends can ask you: "Have you (already) gone to a jazz club?" 
If you answer "Yes", he may ask "Did you enjoy it?", and if you answer "No" he may say "Then I will take you to the best one in the city!"


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## Artrella

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Am I the only one who thinks "Have you gone to a jazz club?" sounds strange? It has the sense of "Are you at a jazz club?" for me
> 
> It seems outsider is comfortable with it, germinal thinks it odd.




I think it is ok, because it shows that the action is recent. You have gone to it and now you are not there.  Am I right?
What is the difference between "Have you gone to a jazz club" and "Have you been to a jazz club"?


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## panjandrum

I would say either:  
Have you been to a jazz club (yet)? or 
Did you go to a jazz club?
Strange stuff, English


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## Outsider

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I would say either:
> Have you been to a jazz club (yet)? or
> Did you go to a jazz club?
> Strange stuff, English


Yes, I agree that "to be" works better with the present perfect, and "to go" with the simple past. It is a strange incoherence...


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## germinal

Artrella said:
			
		

> I think it is ok, because it shows that the action is recent. You have gone to it and now you are not there. Am I right?
> What is the difference between "Have you gone to a jazz club" and "Have you been to a jazz club"?


 

_Gone_ is usually used when speaking of other people:   _Have they gone to...Has she gone to a jazz club?_  (in the sense of: _have they left to go to the jazz club?)_ and to my (British) ear _have you gone to a Jazz club sounds rather odd._


_Germinal._


_._


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I would say either:
> Have you been to a jazz club (yet)? or
> Did you go to a jazz club?
> Strange stuff, English



I think that the 'have you gone to...' sounds 100% excellent.  'Did you go to a jazz club?', however, sounds a little bit off to me.  I think that circumstances would have to be perfect for me ever to create that sentence on my own.  

I also think that saying 'gone to' instead of 'been to' is a way of building up the event, but it's not that overt.  Maybe it's an American thing.


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## panjandrum

germinal said:
			
		

> _Gone_ is usually used when speaking of other people: _Have they gone to...Has she gone to a jazz club?_ (in the sense of: _have they left to go to the jazz club?)_ and to my (British) ear _have you gone to a Jazz club sounds rather odd._
> _Germinal._


 germinal: That is a very profound thought 
*Gone* seems to be OK only with the third person.
I think it is because whoever HAS gone, is not here. First and second person are here, so cannot have gone.

Artrella asked: "What is the difference between "Have you gone to a jazz club" and "Have you been to a jazz club"?"
The difference, for me, is that I would never ask the first question. 
Why?
Let me answer from the other perspective.

"I have gone to a jazz club" - is the kind of message I would leave as a note to someone, or a text to someone, as I was on my way to the club.
I would never say that directly to someone.

"I have been to a jazz club" - is something I would say under many circumstances - too many to list.


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> germinal: That is a very profound thought
> *Gone* seems to be OK only with the third person.
> I think it is because whoever HAS gone, is not here. First and second person are here, so cannot have gone.  *IF we were asking the question about the present, I think that would hold water. Since we're talking about the past, it seems mute. You could have been somewhere else just as easily as I could have or he or she or they or we.*
> 
> Artrella asked: "What is the difference between "Have you gone to a jazz club" and "Have you been to a jazz club"?"
> The difference, for me, is that I would never ask the first question. *To me, there's very little difference.*
> Why?
> Let me answer from the other perspective.
> 
> "I have gone to a jazz club" - is the kind of message I would leave as a note to someone, or a text to someone, as I was on my way to the club.
> I would never say that directly to someone.  *Personally, I would say this a lot (assuming that I were ever to say either, hehe). To me, it just means that in some point prior to this one, I've gone to a jazz club. What it doesn't mean is that I went to a jazz club last night.*
> 
> "I have been to a jazz club" - is something I would say under many circumstances - too many to list.  *Me too, same as above.*



Hmm, I'd say either one just as frequently as the other.  With respect to the question form, I'd still use either one.

I know that BE uses more present perfect than does AE, but that doesn't seem to play into this at all. All four seem perfectly logical to me when we're talking about things that we've done in our lives.


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## panjandrum

OK charmedboi82: - it's clearly a water thing (AmE/BE).  I hadn't realised this before - fascinating.
?mute => moot?


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> OK charmedboi82: - it's clearly a water thing (AmE/BE).  I hadn't realised this before - fascinating.
> ?mute => moot?



Yep.  I can spell.  Really, I can.  Hey, I spelled 'mute' correctly, didn't I?  I wouldn't be surprised if my roommate said that word when I typed that or if that's what I was thinking.  I do that a lot, .


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## jacinta

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> Hello everybody,
> Have you gone to a jazz club?
> Yes, I have. I've *already * gone to several.
> No, I haven't. I haven't gone to *yet*.
> 
> In this sentences, we talk about recent present situations and the questions were made to know if you've done these things recently... yep?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Diana




I will enter these waters with trepidation  ...

I like all of your sentences with the corrections people have already made.  I do have problems with these last ones.  They don't sound natural to me.  This does:

Have you ever gone to a jazz club?
Yes, I've been to lots.

I would not use *already* in this sentence.  "Ya" does not translate to English very well.  Leave it out.  It doesn't make much sense to say, "Yes, I've already been to several."

I can think of a situation when I would say "already":

Let's go see the new "Star Wars" movie.
No, I've already seen it.

On the phone:  Can I talk to Mary?
Sorry, she's already gone to meet a friend.  Can I take a message?

I don't know if this is helpful but I felt it surging within me  .


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## charmedboi82

jacinta said:
			
		

> I will enter these waters with trepidation  ...
> 
> I like all of your sentences with the corrections people have already made. I do have problems with these last ones. They don't sound natural to me. This does:
> 
> Have you ever gone to a jazz club?
> Yes, I've been to lots.
> 
> I would not use *already* in this sentence. "Ya" does not translate to English very well. Leave it out. It doesn't make much sense to say, "Yes, I've already been to several."  It makes perfect sense to me to add the 'already', especially for emphasis, but even on its own it doesn't seem out of place to me.  I think it could get her into trouble in certain circumstances though since you're right that 'ya' doesn't translate so smoothly.
> 
> I can think of a situation when I would say "already":
> 
> Let's go see the new "Star Wars" movie.
> No, I've already seen it.
> 
> On the phone:  Can I talk to Mary?
> Sorry, she's already gone to meet a friend.  Can I take a message?
> 
> I don't know if this is helpful but I felt it surging within me  .



That was good.  I agreed with all of it except for what I wrote above in blue.


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## panjandrum

*jacinta:* I agree with you - keep surging 



			
				charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> Hey, I spelled 'mute' correctly, didn't I? .


Indeed you did. However, my gentle hint was to suggest you should have typed "moot"


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> *jacinta:* I agree with you - keep surging
> 
> Indeed you did. However, my gentle hint was to suggest you should have typed "moot"


 
Yes, I know. My gentle hint was to suggest that at least I should get some points for having spelled a word that begins with an M correctly (even though it was the wrong one).


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## Artrella

germinal said:
			
		

> _Gone_ is usually used when speaking of other people:   _Have they gone to...Has she gone to a jazz club?_  (in the sense of: _have they left to go to the jazz club?)_ and to my (British) ear _have you gone to a Jazz club sounds rather odd._
> 
> 
> _Germinal._
> 
> 
> _._



Hi Germinal, I did that question because I was taught that there is a difference between "have you been" and "have you gone".  I was told that one of them means that you went and came back (probably is "gone"?)... I cannot remember the explanation now, could you help me?
Thank you


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## germinal

Artrella said:
			
		

> Hi Germinal, I did that question because I was taught that there is a difference between "have you been" and "have you gone". I was told that one of them means that you went and came back (probably is "gone"?)... I cannot remember the explanation now, could you help me?
> Thank you


 

Hi Artrella - As you have probably noticed there is a difference of opinion here between the Brits and the North Americans. 

I think that _Have you been?_ is the correct way of asking a person if they have spent time in a particular place. In order to ask that question the person must be present (although you could be on the phone etc. or you could be writing a letter I suppose) and it does not sound right to me to ask a person who I am addressing _Have you gone? because they are there in front of me._

So for me the way to ask someone who is present if they went somewhere (and obviously came back) is _Have you been to school? Have you been to the shops?_

You can also say _Did you go to Madrid? Did you go to school? which is perfectly alright._

Having said that, I must say that it is probably quite OK to use _Have you gone etc _in the U.S.A. where different rules and customs apply. 


Germinal.


.


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## Artrella

germinal said:
			
		

> Hi Artrella - As you have probably noticed there is a difference of opinion here between the Brits and the North Americans.
> 
> I think that _Have you been?_ is the correct way of asking a person if they have spent time in a particular place. In order to ask that question the person must be present (although you could be on the phone etc. or you could be writing a letter I suppose) and it does not sound right to me to ask a person who I am addressing _Have you gone? because they are there in front of me._
> 
> So for me the way to ask someone who is present if they went somewhere (and obviously came back) is _Have you been to school? Have you been to the shops?_
> 
> You can also say _Did you go to Madrid? Did you go to school? which is perfectly alright._
> 
> Having said that, I must say that it is probably quite OK to use _Have you gone etc _in the U.S.A. where different rules and customs apply.
> 
> 
> Germinal.
> 
> 
> .



Thank you *Germinal*, I am particularly interested in the BrE point of view, because here we are taught BrE and not the AmE.
So your opinions are really helpful for my studies!!


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## Isolde

germinal said:
			
		

> Hi Artrella - As you have probably noticed there is a difference of opinion here between the Brits and the North Americans.
> 
> I think that _Have you been?_ is the correct way of asking a person if they have spent time in a particular place. In order to ask that question the person must be present (although you could be on the phone etc. or you could be writing a letter I suppose) and it does not sound right to me to ask a person who I am addressing _Have you gone? because they are there in front of me._
> 
> So for me the way to ask someone who is present if they went somewhere (and obviously came back) is _Have you been to school? Have you been to the shops?_
> 
> You can also say _Did you go to Madrid? Did you go to school? which is perfectly alright._
> 
> Having said that, I must say that it is probably quite OK to use _Have you gone etc _in the U.S.A. where different rules and customs apply.
> 
> 
> Germinal.
> 
> 
> .


 
Hi there!

However, isn't this correct?:

Person 1: "Remember you told me that you were going shopping?"
Person 2: "Yes."
Person 1: "Have you gone yet?"

Yes? No?

Tks!

Cheers!


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## panjandrum

Isolde said:
			
		

> Hi there!
> 
> However, isn't this correct?:
> 
> Person 1: "Remember you told me that you were going shopping?"
> Person 2: "Yes."
> Person 1: "Have you gone yet?"
> 
> Yes? No?
> 
> Tks!
> 
> Cheers!


Assuming that Person 1 can't actually see Person 2, this would be perfectly OK for me.
The "Have you gone yet?" question is silly if Person 1 knows exactly where Person 2 is at the time.
It would be just as silly as asking someone beside you: "Are you still here?"


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## irishstu

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Assuming that Person 1 can't actually see Person 2, this would be perfectly OK for me.
> The "Have you gone yet?" question is silly if Person 1 knows exactly where Person 2 is at the time.
> It would be just as silly as asking someone beside you: "Are you still here?"



I completely agree with both panjandrun and Germinal here. I've always taught my students to use "have been" if the person has since returned. If the person is still absent, then "have gone" is the one to use. I can only speak for British English, of course.


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Assuming that Person 1 can't actually see Person 2, this would be perfectly OK for me.
> The "Have you gone yet?" question is silly if Person 1 knows exactly where Person 2 is at the time.
> It would be just as silly as asking someone beside you: "Are you still here?"


 
To me, 'have you gone yet?' sounds a bit better than 'have you been yet?'. I don't think the question is asking whether you've gone anywhere at all; obviously if you're here I wouldn't be asking that. Since I'm asking a question to you, that's not a valid interpretation to me from the beginning. 

I think that it means "have you gone (to the store) yet?" = "have you left for the store, gone to the store, and returned from the store yet?". I don't think it means, "have you left the house yet?".

So, what would you say:

Have you been yet?

?


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## Isolde

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Assuming that Person 1 can't actually see Person 2, this would be perfectly OK for me.
> The "Have you gone yet?" question is silly if Person 1 knows exactly where Person 2 is at the time.
> It would be just as silly as asking someone beside you: "Are you still here?"


 
I don't think the question is silly at all,  because as Charmedbois82 said and quite rightly so:  person 1 does not know whether person2 has been to the shops or not. Perhaps he/she wanted to go with him/her or wanted him to buy something for him/her...etc.  

Of course one might ask from the start:  Have you gone shopping already?  But this is just an exercise...

Cheers!


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## panjandrum

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> I think that it means "have you gone (to the store) yet?" = "have you left for the store, gone to the store, and returned from the store yet?". I don't think it means, "have you left the house yet?".
> 
> So, what would you say:
> 
> Have you been yet?
> 
> ?


Well, yes.
This is learning for me - and I expect for both sides of the water.
It is clear that we cannot agree, because our usage is essentially different and it is pointless for each to try to persuade the other to change 

Maybe I could try to state the positions (risky I know, but it might help).
A and B have agreed, some time ago, that B should go to the shop for some milk.
A then speaks to B, either face-to-face or by phone, about the shopping expedition. 
A says to B:

*Have you been yet?*
AmE and BrE agree.
This is an OK thing to say either face-to-face or on the phone.

*Have you gone yet?*
AmE: This means the same as “Have you been yet?” and is preferred.
BrE:  This implies that A does not know where B is, right now, so is OK as part of a phone conversation, but not face-to-face.


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## jacinta

Here's my scenario:

Earlier in the day, we agree someone must go to the store for milk.  Later, I come home and see the other person.  I say,: "Did you go to the store?"

To me, this is the same as saying,:  "Have you gone to the store?"

In our everyday speech, we don't use "been" much.  The situations that come in my head when I would use it have to do with travel:

Have you ever been to Cancún?
Have you ever been to Disneyland?

A doctor's visit:

Ted's been coughing a lot lately.
Did you go to the Dr.?  (Same as, "Have you gone to the Dr.?")
No, we haven't gone yet, but we have an appointment this afternoon.

So, I am reiterating what Pan says about AmE.   (regardless of whether one wants to learn AmE  )


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## sindycardona

The Present perfect is used to describe actions or events that have happen or not. These actions and events began in the past and continue up to and into the present. The tense is formed by the subject +have/has + verb (past participle form) +complement.

You use the present perfect when it is not determined the exactly moment of a past event. Example: Have you (ever) seen the Grand Canyon? Mary has not (has never) been to Paris. In these cases, the words never and ever are used to emphasize the negative sense of the sentences.

Note: “to – go” has two forms in the present perfect. If you say, “He has gone to London”, it means that he is not here; but if you say “he has been in London” it means that he went there and come back.


When a past event continues in the present time, we also use the perfect present to indicate it. In this case we see the special use of words like since or for. Example: They have live in New York since 1998 or how long he has worked in this company?


When the indicated period is still in force, we use the present perfect tense. Example: I have been in Caracas twice this month; John has not had vacations this years. 

When the event or action happened recently. In these cases, we specially use words like just, already, yet, recently. 

_For me this is the key for the correct use of these tense. Relating to words like already, just, never, since, ever, for, during, until… the best way to learn about this – in my own opinion- is to study them separately. This words, I mean adverbs, conjunctions, prepositions and others have a very specific use. When you learn it, you can use them correctly_. It’s very hard, in special to those who don’t like to study grammar. But it is necessary.


Other helpful thing to learn the correct use of this tense jointly with these expressions is to read. Read good books, good magazines can help us to see the correct use and the position of these words in the text. If you read and you do not understand something or you find something new, please stop and take notice of it. Then you may investigate or get further comprehension later. That activity has been very useful for me. 

I hope you would find this helpful. This kind of things shows us how difficult is to learn a new language but it does not matter when you really want to learn and improvement your skills in order to acquire a better comprehension and so very important abilities.


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## Outsider

sindycardona said:
			
		

> Note: “to – go” has two forms in the present perfect. If you say, “He has gone to London”, it means that he is not here; but if you say “he has been in London” it means that he went there and come back.


Thanks for your clear explanation! That was helpful to me.  



			
				sindycardona said:
			
		

> When a past event continues in the present time, we also use the perfect present to indicate it. In this case we see the special use of words like since or for. Example: They have live in New York since 1998 or how long he has worked in this company?


Very useful example.


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## panjandrum

sindycardona said:
			
		

> If you say, “He has gone to London”, it means that he is not here; but if you say “he has been in London” it means that he went there and come back.


This is the usage that has different meanings between AmE and BrE.  See my post two up from yours.
I agree with you. 
AmE speakers, it seems, see no difference between "He has gone to London" and "He has been to London".


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## charmedboi82

I don't think it's exactly true that we don't see a difference.  For us, most of the time they're synonymous, but we wouldn't say 'he's been to London' to mean that he just left for London (he has gone to London).  I'd say that's the main difference.  British English seems to use 'been' for having been there ever and 'gone' to represent actions more like departing for a trip.  American English seems to use 'been' and 'gone' (the preferrable one) for having been there ever and 'gone' to represent actions of departing.  It would seem that American English has the extra usage/overlap.


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## charmedboi82

sindycardona said:
			
		

> The Present perfect is used to describe actions or events that have happen or not. These actions and events began in the past and continue up to and into the present. The tense is formed by the subject +have/has + verb (past participle form) +complement.
> 
> You use the present perfect when it is not determined the exactly moment of a past event. Example: Have you (ever) seen the Grand Canyon? Mary has not (has never) been to Paris. In these cases, the words never and ever are used to emphasize the negative sense of the sentences.
> 
> Note: “to – go” has two forms in the present perfect. If you say, “He has gone to London”, it means that he is not here; but if you say “he has been in London” it means that he went there and come back.  "He has been* to* London." seems preferrable.
> 
> 
> When a past event continues in the present time, we also use the perfect present to indicate it. In this case we see the special use of words like since or for. Example: They have live*d* in New York since 1998 or how long he has worked in this company?  They have *lived* in New York since 1998 or how long *has he* worked *at* this company?
> 
> 
> When the indicated period is still in force, we use the present perfect tense. Example: I have been in Caracas twice this month; John has not had vacations this years.  John hasn't been on vacation (yet) this year.  John hasn't gone on vacation (yet) this year.
> 
> When the event or action happened recently. In these cases, we specially use words like just, already, yet, recently.
> 
> _For me this is the key for the correct use of these tense. Relating to words like already, just, never, since, ever, for, during, until… the best way to learn about this – in my own opinion- is to study them separately. This words, I mean adverbs, conjunctions, prepositions and others have a very specific use. When you learn it, you can use them correctly_. It’s very hard, in special to those who don’t like to study grammar. But it is necessary.
> 
> 
> Other helpful thing to learn the correct use of this tense jointly with these expressions is to read. Read good books, good magazines can help us to see the correct use and the position of these words in the text. If you read and you do not understand something or you find something new, please stop and take notice of it. Then you may investigate or get further comprehension later. That activity has been very useful for me.
> 
> I hope you would find this helpful. This kind of things shows us how difficult is to learn a new language but it does not matter when you really want to learn and improvement your skills in order to acquire a better comprehension and so very important abilities.


 
I just fixed your 'examples' to make sure that any typos or errors wouldn't lead students astray.


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## panjandrum

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> I don't think it's exactly true that we don't see a difference. For us, most of the time they're synonymous, but we wouldn't say 'he's been to London' to mean that he just left for London (he has gone to London).


We both use "gone" here.


> I'd say that's the main difference. British English seems to use 'been' for having been there ever and 'gone' to represent actions more like departing for a trip. *American English seems to use 'been' and 'gone' (the preferrable one) for having been there ever* and 'gone' to represent actions of departing. It would seem that American English has the extra usage/overlap.


Imagine you and I are sitting in a NY bar chatting about London, and Bill. You lean back in your chair, stare at the ceiling and say "Bill has gone to London". I would think you were telling me that Bill is either on his way to London or has already arrived there. 

Would you also say that to tell me that amongst Bill's life experience there was a visit to London?


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## charmedboi82

panjandrum said:
			
		

> We both use "gone" here.  I know.
> 
> Imagine you and I are sitting in a NY bar chatting about London, and Bill. You lean back in your chair, stare at the ceiling and say "Bill has gone to London". I would think you were telling me that Bill is either on his way to London or has already arrived there.
> 
> Would you also say that to tell me that amongst Bill's life experience there was a visit to London?



Short answer, yes!

Well, I would say it like that if we're already talking about London or trips to London. "Oh, you know Bill, right? He's gone/been to London, too." They both sound equally viable as far as sound goes, but I think I'd be more likely to say 'gone'. 'Been' does sound slightly more refined in this case.

In the case of using 'gone' without previous London talk, it would mean that Bill has left for London (and is most likely already there for whatever reason), but I doubt I'd randomly say it in conversation like that anyhow. Instead, I think I'd say that 'Bill (already) left for London.' Still, "Yeah, Bill's gone to London. He'll be back in about a week."

So, to us Americans, it could mean either. It depends for the most part what specific conversation preceded that sentence. Amazingly, I've said these sentences recently since a co-worker is currently, as we speak, in England.


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## Isolde

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> Short answer, yes!
> 
> Well, I would say it like that if we're already talking about London or trips to London. "Oh, you know Bill, right? He's gone/been to London, too." They both sound equally viable as far as sound goes, but I think I'd be more likely to say 'gone'. 'Been' does sound slightly more refined in this case.
> 
> In the case of using 'gone' without previous London talk, it would mean that Bill has left for London (and is most likely already there for whatever reason), but I doubt I'd randomly say it in conversation like that anyhow. Instead, I think I'd say that 'Bill (already) left for London.' Still, "Yeah, Bill's gone to London. He'll be back in about a week."
> 
> So, to us Americans, it could mean either. It depends for the most part what specific conversation preceded that sentence. Amazingly, I've said these sentences recently since a co-worker is currently, as we speak, in England.


 
Hi there!

What I think is also happening here, is that you are arranging the sentence so that it also implies that he "has been" to London.

When Panjandrum asked:  "Would you also say that to tell me that amongst Bill's life experience there was a visit to London?" ("Bill has gone to London.").  You said "yes"....however, the example you quote here has the word "TOO".

If you take the "too" away...I don't think you could ever say that "Bill has gone to London" means that  Bill "has been" to London.

Bill has gone to London. However, we do not know if he ever made it to London.   He is flying/walking/running to London.  He has gone to London never to return again.  He has gone to London and left his wife and kids. He has gone to London in spite of his illness.  He has gone to London to buy a car.   He has gone to London to tell Tony Blair what an idiot he is.  

But for all we know:  The plane could have crashed, he could have twisted his leg, he could have died, he could have changed his mind, etc. etc.  

Therefore, because of all those possibilities, there is a chance that you will never be able to say "Bill has been to London".  It cannot mean the same.

To imply that he actually made it to London, you would say:  He flew/walked/ran to London.  He left for London never to return again.  He stayed in London and left his wife.  He went to London in spite of his illness.  He went to London and bought a car.  He arrived in London and told T Blair what an idiot he is.


Yes? No?

Cheers!


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## charmedboi82

Isolde said:
			
		

> Hi there!
> 
> What I think is also happening here, is that you are arranging the sentence so that it also implies that he "has been" to London.
> 
> When Panjandrum asked: "Would you also say that to tell me that amongst Bill's life experience there was a visit to London?" ("Bill has gone to London."). You said "yes"....however, the example you quote here has the word "TOO".  *It has the word 'too' because Bill has that in common with the speaker.  If you're wearing blue and I'm wearing blue, I'm likely to point out that you're wearing blue, too.  It's only natural to add the 'too'.  There's more below.*
> 
> If you take the "too" away...I don't think you could ever say that "Bill has gone to London" means that Bill "has been" to London. *Sure, I could use them to mean the same thing.  I do that DAILY/ALL THE TIME.*
> 
> Bill has gone to London. However, we do not know if he ever made it to London *In American speech and in that case, you do know that he visited London*. He is flying/walking/running to London. He has gone to London never to return again. He has gone to London and left his wife and kids. He has gone to London in spite of his illness. He has gone to London to buy a car. He has gone to London to tell Tony Blair what an idiot he is.
> 
> But for all we know: The plane could have crashed, he could have twisted his leg, he could have died, he could have changed his mind, etc. etc.
> 
> Therefore, because of all those possibilities, there is a chance that you will never be able to say "Bill has been to London". It cannot mean the same. *To Americans, it CAN mean the same.*
> 
> To imply that he actually made it to London, you would say: He flew/walked/ran to London. He left for London never to return again. He stayed in London and left his wife. He went to London in spite of his illness. He went to London and bought a car. He arrived in London and told T Blair what an idiot he is. *To imply he actually made it to London, we could say any of the following: He's gone to London, he's been to London, he's visited London. 'Gone to' can mean that he did arrive or that he has simply left for London and has yet to arrive in London. It's somewhat ambiguous, but I assure you that it's how we use it.*
> 
> 
> Yes? No?
> 
> Cheers!



No.

I said 'too' because I was assuming that going to London/visiting London was part of the previous conversation. In that case, the 'too' acknowledged that I had been paying attention and that the person I was speaking to wasn't alone in having gone to London. It still makes sense without the 'too', sorry.

Even though it's more common to answer with a structure similar to one that was in the question, the following isn't out of the question:

A:  Have you ever been to London?
B:  Yes, I've gone to London.  Yes, I've been to London.

Or even this, which could all mean two things:

A:  Have you gone to London?
B:  Yes, I've been to London.  Yes, I've gone to London.

It seems to me that it's clear.  If we're talking about once in our lives, it would stand to reason we'd use the above.  If we were talking about one trip in particular which we both knew about, I believe there would be more to the sentence:  Have you gone on your trip to London yet?  That would clear it up instantly.

These can all be synonyms, 'can be' is key.  They're not always the same thing:

I've been to London.  I've gone to London.  I've visited London.  I've frequented London.

True, I've gone to London can mean that I've left this location and London is my destinaiton; however, in American speech, it can mean the above.

It's obvious what meaning I'm using in context. If I'm talking to you face-to-face and telling you that 'I've gone to London', it stands to reason that I mean that I've gone sometime in the past since I'm standing in front of you. Logic would make it clear that I haven't left just before this moment since I'm still standing in front of you!

I hope it's clearer.


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## Isolde

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> I said 'too' because I was assuming that going to London/visiting London was part of the previous conversation. In that case, the 'too' acknowledged that I had been paying attention and that the person I was speaking to wasn't alone in having gone to London. It still makes sense without the 'too', sorry.
> 
> Even though it's more common to answer with a structure similar to one that was in the question, the following isn't out of the question:
> 
> A: Have you ever been to London?
> B: Yes, I've gone to London. Yes, I've been to London.
> 
> Or even this, which could all mean two things:
> 
> A: Have you gone to London?
> B: Yes, I've been to London. Yes, I've gone to London.
> 
> It seems to me that it's clear. If we're talking about once in our lives, it would stand to reason we'd use the above. If we were talking about one trip in particular which we both knew about, I believe there would be more to the sentence: Have you gone on your trip to London yet? That would clear it up instantly.
> 
> These can all be synonyms, 'can be' is key. They're not always the same thing:
> 
> I've been to London. I've gone to London. I've visited London. I've frequented London.
> 
> True, I've gone to London can mean that I've left this location and London is my destinaiton; however, in American speech, it can mean the above.
> 
> It's obvious what meaning I'm using in context. If I'm talking to you face-to-face and telling you that 'I've gone to London', it stands to reason that I mean that I've gone sometime in the past since I'm standing in front of you. Logic would make it clear that I haven't left just before this moment since I'm still standing in front of you!
> 
> *I hope it's clearer*.


 
Hi Charmebois82,

Obviously in American speech it is clear, but as you said: "*It's somewhat ambiguous, but I assure you that it's how we use it."*

Thanks!


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## charmedboi82

Isolde said:
			
		

> Hi Charmebois82,
> 
> Obviously in American speech it is clear, but as you said: "*It's somewhat ambiguous, but I assure you that it's how we use it."*
> 
> Thanks!



Well, I think it's ambiguous to someone that doesn't use it all the time or to someone that isn't used to it, but to me it's not ambiguous. I have absolutely no difficulty telling the difference in daily conversation. For someone who doesn't use it, it could very well be difficult to differentiate the meaning. It's perfectly clear to me though, .

It's just as clear as the following:
I'm teaching my son Spanish.
I'm teaching my son, Spanish.

Without proper punctuation and intonation, they're ambiguous.  I bet that few people would have trouble differentiating their meaning though with context (in this case, proper punctuation and intonation).


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## panjandrum

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> Short answer, yes!


Charmedboi82,
Short reply:  thanks for your answer to my question (way up there in the thread somewhere)
Among all the interchange of ideas I have, I believe, found some new insights into AE and BE differences; you have helped clarify these. It is enough for me to be aware that a variance in usage of "gone" might lead to misunderstanding. Too much detailed analysis makes my head hurt


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## germinal

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Charmedboi82,
> Short reply:  thanks for your answer to my question (way up there in the thread somewhere)
> Among all the interchange of ideas I have, I believe, found some new insights into AE and BE differences; you have helped clarify these. It is enough for me to be aware that a variance in usage of "gone" might lead to misunderstanding. Too much detailed analysis makes my head hurt


 

Me too - I'm gone!    

Germinal.


.


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## NightOwl

Been and gone are both the same tense - so they can be used in the same place in a sentence but the meaning is slightly different.

There is a nursery rhyme . . . . 
_"Pussy cat, pussy cat where have you *been*?" _
_"I've *been* to London to visit the queen"_

"Been" refers the time spent (the time it was 'being') at the location (the cat is no longer in London - it's talking about the time when it was in London

If we change the rhyme and replace been with gone, the meaning changes
_"Pussy cat, pussy cat where have you *gone*?"_
_"I've *gone* to London to visit the queen"_

Now the cat is missing - "gone" implies a change made by 'going' to another location. The cat went London and may still be in London. 

Splitting hairs I know - ain't language lovely!


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## lunalunera

but  what is the difference between them?
have you gone to Spain?
have you been to Spain?
thanks


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## panjandrum

lunalunera said:
			
		

> but what is the difference between them?
> have you gone to Spain?
> have you been to Spain?
> thanks


It depends entirely which side of the Atlantic you are from.
See post #30, above - which has not been contradicted (which doesn't mean it won't be, of course )

In AE, these questions are the same, but the first form is preferred.

In BE there is a difference. 
A asks B the question.
"gone" version - only makes sense if A does not know where B is, but believes that B was intending to go to Spain. So A would only ask B this question by phone/ text/ e-mail/ letter....
"been" version - could be asked by A at any time, simply to find out if B has ever been to Spain.


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## irishstu

Wow. I thought we'd cleared this up ages ago. Isn't this thread just going round in circles?


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## lunalunera

thank you panjandrum


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## herman zermitz

Artrella said:
			
		

> What is the difference between "Have you gone to a jazz club" and "Have you been to a jazz club"?



I agree with Panjandrum that "have you gone to a jazz club?" sounds as if the questioner thinks you're still there (eg in calling your mobile and hearing music in the background).

In this context 'gone' implies ('gone to and not come back from'), whereas 'been' implies 'been and returned from'.

Hermann


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## panjandrum

irishstu said:
			
		

> Wow. I thought we'd cleared this up ages ago. Isn't this thread just going round in circles?


I thought so to.  I summarised in response to lunalunera's post in hope of avoiding any more posts


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## irishstu

This is caused by people not reading the whole thread .


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## neuwk

peruviangirl said:
			
		

> *I've always been to Cuzco since 1992.*


That is where I have been living since 1992
I have lived there since 1992
I have been living there since 1992
I am living there now



			
				peruviangirl said:
			
		

> For the same question: Have you ever been to Cuzco?
> Would the answer be like that?
> *Yes, I have. I went to Cuzco last year. (in this case, we use this tense with past tense and a specific time in past.)
> No, I haven't. I've never been there.*


Makes sense to me 


Have you seen the play? 
Yes I saw the play yesterday/last week/a couple of weeks ago/last tuesday
I want to see it but I have not been able to yet
I dont want to see it, its not my cup of tea (i.e i dont like the sound of it)


Have you gone to a jazz club?
Yes I have it was really good
Yes I have, I enjoyed it a lot
Not recently but I would love to go again
No I havent is there one near here

etc etc etc


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## topstafflover

I also think "Have you gone to a jazz club." sounds strange.  If you added "before", as in "Have you gone to a jazz club before?" sounds better to me!


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## charmedboi82

Heh, they all sound good to me.


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