# kw



## Ptak

Please, could someone tell me, how is pronounced "kw" in words like _kwadrat, kwarta__ł, kworum_? Is it *kv* or *kf*?
 
Thank you.


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## Thomas1

Hi, 

It's pronounced [kf]. At the moment I can't even think of an example where it would be pronounced as [kv].


Tom


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## njumi

Thomas1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> It's pronounced [kf]. At the moment I can't even think of an example where it would be pronounced as [kv].
> 
> 
> Tom



It's always pronounced [kf].


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## Thomas1

Careflul there, njumi. I wouldn't be surprised if someone pronounced it [kv] in, for instance, abbrevations.

Tom


PS: welcome to the forums.


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## njumi

Thomas1 said:


> Careflul there, njumi. I wouldn't be surprised if someone pronounced it [kv] in, for instance, abbrevations.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> PS: welcome to the forums.



OK. I can only talk for myself... So for me It's almost impossible to pronounce "kw" - [kv] in a normal conversation. I can try to make an effort and say it that way but it's unnatural and very difficult.

Thanks for greeting me Tom.


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## slavic_one

In Polish, *w* and *rz* assimilates not only with sound after them, but also in front of them.


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## Duya

njumi said:


> OK. I can only talk for myself... So for me It's almost impossible to pronounce "kw" - [kv] in a normal conversation. I can try to make an effort and say it that way but it's unnatural and very difficult.



Depends on the perspective, I suppose . I claim I can pronounce it flawlessly in my native Serbo-Croatian (kvadrat, kvar, kvaka, mrkva...), but then...

...I had a debate on Wikipedia whether our letter "v" should be phonetically described as [v] or [ʋ]; even the textbooks disagree (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_language#Consonants). In reality, the two sounds are allophones -- the former is used between (front) vowels, and the latter in vicinity of consonants (or back vowels). I'm not sure about quality of Polish "w", but I suppose it's a "strong" fricative as in Russian, which would make it hard do pronounce "/kvadra:t/" indeed.


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## Thomas1

njumi said:


> OK. I can only talk for myself... So for me It's almost impossible to pronounce "kw" - [kv] in a normal conversation. I can try to make an effort and say it that way but it's unnatural and very difficult.
> 
> Thanks for greeting me Tom.


Hi,

The same holds true for me too, however, this doesn't apply to abbreviations, well at least in my case. 

Tom


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## Gochna

Hi guys,

I would say that it's always [kf]... What do you mean by ­"abbreviations" Tom? I can't think of any. Could you give me an example please?


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## Thomas1

Oh, sorry if I haven't been clear enough, by abbreviations I mean shortened forms of words. For instance I've had once a talk with an electrician who told me about different kinds of power plants and he used _kW _[kv] not the full form _kilowaty _each time he described their power capability. Another similar case is _kasa wyda_. I expect that most of, if not all, such abbreviations are pronounced this way. 

Tom


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## Gochna

Tom,

I think that the abbreviations you've mentioned it's an absolutely different case. For "Kasa wydała" or "Kasa przyjęła" for instance, there are special blankets called KW and KP and the common pronunciation of those are [KaVu] and  [KaPe], you read every letter as if it was standing alone and not as a part of a word. 
For Kilowatts, I can't say because I've never heard the abbreviation. If I were to pronounce it though, it would be [kv] or [kavu]...
What do you say?


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## robin74

Just wondering - not exactly the same spelling, but how would you pronounce "qui pro quo"?


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## Thomas1

It's with f to me, [kfi pro kfo] and yours?


Gochna said:


> Tom,
> 
> I think that the abbreviations you've mentioned it's an absolutely different case. For "Kasa wydała" or "Kasa przyjęła" for instance, there are special blankets called KW and KP and the common pronunciation of those are [KaVu] and  [KaPe], you read every letter as if it was standing alone and not as a part of a word.
> For Kilowatts, I can't say because I've never heard the abbreviation. If I were to pronounce it though, it would be [kv] or [kavu]...
> What do you say?


You're absolutely right Gochna, I had totally forgotten about the vowels, thanks. The [v] appears in the pronunciation though. However it should be noted too that not all of them are pornounced letter by letter.

Tom


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## robin74

Thomas1 said:


> It's with f to me, [kfi pro kfo] and yours?


Frankly, I now wonder and I'm not sure. I know I'm making a concious effort to produce a voiced "v" in Russian "Moskva", but here - I think it's just "kfi" for me, too, unless I'm going for the Classical Latin pronunciation. I wouldn't be surprised though to hear "v" there.

I thought of another one, though. How about if it were and archaic "k" standing for "to". As in "k wujkowi" or "k Warszawie". I don't think I would make a "f" sound there.


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## Thomas1

robin74 said:


> Frankly, I now wonder and I'm not sure. I know I'm making a concious effort to produce a voiced "v" in Russian "Moskva", but here - I think it's just "kfi" for me, too, unless I'm going for the Classical Latin pronunciation. I wouldn't be surprised though to hear "v" there.


THis is what I though of too, but I found it too far off the regular pornunciation.



robin74 said:


> I thought of another one, though. How about if it were and archaic "k" standing for "to". As in "k wujkowi" or "k Warszawie". I don't think I would make a "f" sound there.


Hm... curious, I've never heard that, I have however heard _ku Warszawie_, etc.


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