# Hindi/Urdu: to command/allow/obey



## Birdcall

In Urdu, I believe "tumhe.n chale jaane kii ijaazat dii" unequivocally means "I allowed you to leave" (chale jaane diya) and "tumhe.n chale jaane kaa hukm diya" means "I commanded you to leave" (majbuurii kii), but which one does "tumhe.n chale jaane kii aagyaa dii" mean exactly? 

I think that hukm/hukam is widely understood in both Urdu and Hindi, but is there a common way to say "to allow" besides "(verb)ne denaa" used in both Hindi and Urdu, or should I just stick to that construction? (I'm not sure how common ijaazat is in Hindi)

On the same topic, is "mai.n ne aapkaa hukm maanaa" the best way to express "to obey?"


----------



## drkpp

आज्ञा is a Sanskrit word meaning "Order". So the meaning of sentence is "I ordered you to go". Hukm is Urdu word meaning "Order". So hukm maananaa means "Mend to order" i.e. Obey.


----------



## panjabigator

Birdcall said:


> In Urdu, I believe "tumhe.n chale jaane kii ijaazat dii" unequivocally means "I allowed you to leave" (chale jaane diya) and "tumhe.n chale jaane kaa hukm diya" means "I commanded you to leave" (majbuurii kii), but which one does "tumhe.n chale jaane kii aagyaa dii" mean exactly?
> 
> I think that hukm/hukam is widely understood in both Urdu and Hindi, but is there a common way to say "to allow" besides "(verb)ne denaa" used in both Hindi and Urdu, or should I just stick to that construction? (I'm not sure how common ijaazat is in Hindi)
> 
> On the same topic, is "mai.n ne aapkaa hukm maanaa" the best way to express "to obey?"



I can't read Drkpp's post because of script issues, so I apologize if this is has already been addressed.  I'd translate <āgyā> as <ijāzat>; could <ādesh> work for <hukm> here?  (By the way, I say it as <hukm>, though I suppose that, prescriptively, there is a _sukoon_ above the kaaf.)

I'd say اجازت is very common in Hindi - I certainly hear it much more than <āgyā>.  The latter I've only heard and read in religious texts, and in my house, humorously!  Maybe its use is more widespread in other Hindi speaking regions.



drkpp said:


> आज्ञा is a Sanskrit word meaning "Order". So the meaning of sentence is "I ordered you to go". Hukm is Urdu word meaning "Order". So hukm maananaa means "Mend to order" i.e. Obey.



<Hukm> is also a Hindi and Punjabi word too.  Its etymology should not set it apart.


----------



## Birdcall

Yes, aadesh is a good synonym of hukm. Thanks. I think I favor aagyaa over ijaazat because of my family's braahmaN tamiL influence. Anyway, PG says aagyaa is a synonym of ijaazat while drkpp says aagyaa = hukm, so I'll just stick with using hukm, ijaazat, and (verb)ne denaa.


----------



## akak

_aagya_ does mean order or command, _aadesh_ is more like behest, direction or guidance, IMO, like _hidayat. _


----------



## panjabigator

Birdcall said:


> Yes, aadesh is a good synonym of hukm. Thanks. I think I favor aagyaa over ijaazat because of my family's braahmaN tamiL influence. Anyway, PG says aagyaa is a synonym of ijaazat while drkpp says aagyaa = hukm, so I'll just stick with using hukm, ijaazat, and (verb)ne denaa.





akak said:


> _aagya_ does mean order or command, _aadesh_ is more like behest, direction or guidance, IMO, like _hidayat. _



I didn't know <āgyā> could work as command as well.  Thanks!


----------



## Birdcall

is aadesh karnaa like aagrah karnaa? Somewhere in between sujhaanaa/salaah denaa and hukm karna?


----------



## drkpp

Birdcall said:


> is aadesh karnaa like aagrah karnaa? Somewhere in between sujhaanaa/salaah denaa and hukm karna?


We usually say: aadesh denaa - आदेश देना 
Agyaa has both meanng order & permission
Aadesh specifically means order or directive.


----------



## Illuminatus

drkpp said:


> आज्ञा is a Sanskrit word meaning "Order". So the meaning of sentence is "I ordered you to go". Hukm is Urdu word meaning "Order". So hukm maananaa means "Mend to order" i.e. Obey.



I am uncomfortable with this translation. To me, आज्ञा is almost always _permission_.

_I ordered you to go_ would be _maine tumhe jaane ka aadesh diya._

It's a different matter that almost nobody would use _aadesh_ in day-to-day conversation.


----------



## akak

Illuminatus said:


> I am uncomfortable with this translation. To me, आज्ञा is almost always _permission_.
> 
> _I ordered you to go_ would be _maine tumhe jaane ka aadesh diya._
> 
> It's a different matter that almost nobody would use _aadesh_ in day-to-day conversation.


 
That's interesting, for me I've only heard it used as command.  

Platt's says this
H اگيا अज्ञा _*aggyā*_, = H آگيا आज्ञा _āggyā_, [S. _ājnā_], s.f. Command, order, injunction, precept, instruction, direction; provision, requisition; permission, leave, authority; edict, decree; (in Gram.) the imperative mood:—_āggyā palnā_ (-_kī_), To observe or obey the orders (of):—_āggyā-patra_, s.m. Written order or authority, warrant, commission, edict:—_āggyā denā_ (-_ko_) = _āggyā karnā_, q.v.:—_aggyā-kār_, _aggyā-kārī_, adj. Executing command, acting according to orders; obedient, submissive, dutiful:—_āggyā karnā_, v.t. To give, or issue, an order (to, -_ko_), to command, bid, instruct, direct; to permit, allow; to decide, settle; to do the bidding (of, -_kī_), to obey, submit (to):—_āggyā mānnā_ = _āggyā-meṅ rahnā_, q.v.:—_āggyā-meṅ rakhnā_, v.t. To keep under authority, subjection, or control; to rule, govern:—_āggyā-meṅ rahnā_ (-_kī_), To be under the order or control or authority (of), to be subject (to), to obey, submit (to); to be docile:—_āggyā-meṅ lānā_, v.t. 'To bring under authority, control or subjection, to subdue, master:—_āggyānusār_ (S. _ājnā_+_anusāra_), adv. & postpn. In accordance with the command or bidding (of, -_kī_).


----------



## Illuminatus

Well, now that you have pushed so much evidence in front me, I will go back and do some research myself


----------



## panjabigator

Illuminatus said:


> I am uncomfortable with this translation. To me, आज्ञा is almost always _permission_.
> 
> _I ordered you to go_ would be _maine tumhe jaane ka aadesh diya._
> 
> It's a different matter that almost nobody would use _aadesh_ in day-to-day conversation.



Right, that's how I heard it too.  I also remembering hearing both these words in the Mahabharat series


----------



## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> .... could <ādesh> work for <hukm> here?  (By the way, I say it as <hukm>, though I suppose that, prescriptively, there is a _sukoon_ above the kaaf.)



That is how I was taking it but I'll let the experts here settle the _aadesh _vs. _aggyaa _issue!

... and hukm is how we say it too!



panjabigator said:


> I'd say اجازت is very common in Hindi - I certainly hear it much more than <āgyā>.  The latter I've only heard and read in religious texts, and in my house, humorously!  Maybe its use is more widespread in other Hindi speaking regions.



I hear _i*j*aazat_ all the time in Hindi, almost as often as in Urdu, and even in other north Indian languages, though sometimes it is pronounced _i*z*aazat_!


----------



## panjabigator

> I hear ijaazat all the time in Hindi, almost as often as in Urdu, and even in other north Indian languages, though sometimes it is pronounced izaazat!



Right - I've heard this hypercorrection MANY times!


----------



## Birdcall

Interesting; I have heard ijaajat.

I know aagyaa is an overly formal word in Hindi, but isn't aagyaakaarii a common way to say obedient?

Is the word dabbuu used outside of Mumbai to mean an obedient person (actually, more like a very submissive person, a follower)?


----------



## Qureshpor

Illuminatus said:


> I am uncomfortable with this translation. To me, आज्ञा is almost always _permission_.
> 
> _I ordered you to go_ would be _maine tumhe jaane ka aadesh diya._
> 
> It's a different matter that almost nobody would use _aadesh_ in day-to-day conversation.



I am wondering how a word like "aagyaa" seemingly has opposite meanings!

mahaaraaj, yadi aap kii aagyaa ho to maiN.. 

My lord, if it is your command then I...

My lord, with your permission I..

So, you can see how the "command" meaning can be taken as "permission" because what a "mahaaraaj" commands *is *his his permission.


----------



## marrish

Actually, in order not to be mistaken if you want to express permission in Hindi, you will say अनुमति. Aagyaa or  aaajnaa could mean order or permission (contextually). Remember,  idiomatic expression may differ from synonymous Urdu words in the corresponding constructions in Urdu. अनुमति हो तो चले जाऊं seems perfect in this idiom.


----------

