# Belly dancers



## argentina84

I would like to know what people think about belly dancers...and speacially..how they are regarged in their countries of origin...What do you think?


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## nichec

argentina84 said:


> I would like to know what people think about belly dancers...and speacially..how they are regarged in their countries of origin...What do you think?


 
So, are we talking about dancers with bare bellies or "lap dancers"?


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## Blehh.

^I think she means traditional Middle Eastern belly dancing. "Lap dances" are totally different and have no connection to belly dancing whatsoever.


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## argentina84

Blehh. said:


> ^I think she means traditional Middle Eastern belly dancing. "Lap dances" are totally different and have no connection to belly dancing whatsoever.


 
Exactly that, Blehh. I mean traditional Middle Eastern belly dancers. It's the new trend in Argentina to dance belly dance..I would like to know what people think about it in other countries.


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## Bilma

What do you mean "It is a trend in Argentina"? Where do they dance?


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## Kajjo

argentina84 said:


> Exactly that, Blehh. I mean traditional Middle Eastern belly dancers. It's the new trend in Argentina to dance belly dance..I would like to know what people think about it in other countries.


Sorry, almost no belly dancing in Germany. We consider it as Middle Eastern specialty and regard it as funny that e.g. Arabian countries tolerate such open sexuality while other kinds of "female expressiveness" like visible hair are condemned. 

I guess it's not a bad thing that belly dancing is a trend in your country. Maybe something new and stimulating?

Kajjo


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## JamesM

Belly dancing is offered as a form of aerobic exercise in many recreation programs, at least in California.   I have a few female relatives who swear by it as a form of exercise.


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## elizabeth_b

I think it's not very popular here in Mexico.  At least I haven't seen classes or shows lately.  Some time ago, I saw something at the TV, it's was an spectacle that the Arabian community was offering.  
Maybe now with Shakira it's going to become something "in".  I would like to take some classes and dance like her!  Although I think I would have to reborn to dance that way!


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## argentina84

oh wow well...it's become a very popular hobby here...and I wanted to check if the information I have is correct: Someone told me that in Arabic countries women only dance belly dance in their homes....when no man can see them...or only to their husbands..is that true? 
And it's very interesting to know that it's practised by a lot of women in Argentina, only....I wonder why we got crazy for it...


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## elizabeth_b

argentina84 said:


> oh wow well...it's become a very popular hobby here...and I wanted to check if the information I have is correct: Someone told me that in Arabic countries women only dance belly dance in their homes....when no man can see them...or only to their husbands..is that true?
> And it's very interesting to know that it's practised by a lot of women in Argentina, only....I wonder why we got crazy for it...


 
I found this comment about the dance: 

Históricamente, en la mayoría de los bailes vinculados a la danza oriental había separación de sexos; los hombres con los hombres y las mujeres con las mujeres. Hay pocas muestras de baile mixto. Esta práctica pretendía garantizar que una "buena" mujer no fuera vista bailando con nadie que no fuera su marido, su familia más cercana o sus amigas.
Hoy en día, la separación de sexos no se practica de forma tan estricta en las zonas urbanas y en ocasiones tanto hombres como mujeres salen y bailan en reuniones sociales de tipo mixto con amigos íntimos. No obstante, a pesar que este baile social en circunstancias aceptables se considera correcto e incluso se fomenta, para muchos en Oriente Medio y el Norte de África consideran que las actuaciones con bailarines profesionales con trajes provocativos y para un público mixto es algo moralmente cuestionable. Algunos llegan hasta el punto de sugerir que se prohíban esta clase de representaciones.


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## Black Opal

Posting from Italy - I started doing a belly dancing course here at my local gym.

Speaking as an ex professional ballet teacher, it's not easy. 
It possibly looks to many (westerners dare I say?) like a bit of erotic hip shaking but there is more to it, and there are many quite separate styles.

Considering the fairly intricate nature of the moves, it isn't for everyone, and even for those with a natural disposition for dance it provides a challenge, as it is nothing like anything we have in the west and is as far from ballet as one can imagine.

However it is (when done properly) a good workout, and certainly less boring than the tedious and repetitive aerobics that most gyms throw at you (guaranteed to ruin elderly knees if you opt for Step Aerobics ).

I love it.


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## Haylette

Belly dancing is quite popular around where I live. I know quite a few people who have taken it up.

I'm not sure whether this is true,  but I've been told that the belly dancers who accompanied Turkey's entry in the last Eurovision were in fact all British.

I actually wondered, when I heard that, how the Turkish people felt about British bellydancers.


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## tilt

Hello,

I live in France and a friend of mine, who is a native North African woman, teaches belly dancing.
She explained me that considering this dance as sexual is an occidental point of view. Ballet dancers, with their slinky costumes, could be said the same. In the Middle East, belly dancing is not sexual but sensual. The difference is fundamental.


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## Black Opal

Yes, I'd totally agree with that tilt.


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## argentina84

I also agree with the difference between sexual and sensual.


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## PrincessLyka

Belly dancing is also quite popular in South Africa. It is regularly advertised as a very good exercise form. There are quite a few dance studios offering it, and some Middle Eastern restaurants have a belly dancer coming to entertain the patrons on the week-ends.


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## sortu

Isn't it just the new better-than-the-last-one exercise trend for women? (a worldwide one it seems, probably due to the Internet and the fact that the same magazines are sold nearly everywhere now). I remember a couple of years ago it was pole dancing and before that something else...


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## samanthalee

I remember having watched a local TV variety show where a local actress went to Turkey to learn belly dancing. It was said that belly dancers have lowly status in their countries of origin.

I'm not sure how true it is; things learnt from variety shows must always be taken with a pinch of salt.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Belly dancing has become very, very popular here. The craze started about three years ago. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Barcelona, my city: in the Raval, a popular quarter downtown, there are lots of stores where you can buy special clothes and scarves for the dance and they all have sings which read "TENEMOS TELAS PARA LA DANZA DEL VIENTRE".

I heard that the most popular belly dancing group in the world comes from the United States!


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## kinia22

i think belly dancers are treaten in my country like  artists but only these professional dancers...


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## Brioche

Belly dancing is quite popular in Australia.

The women who dance professionally usually give themselves Arabic stage names.

On tv here they also have Dancesport, which is what they call competitive ballroom dancing. The costumes worn by the dancesport women are often extremely brief, and in my opinion quite slutty.

The belly dancers usually have flowing skirts, lots of beading, tassels and coin-belts and veils to accentuate the movement, and don't show that much flesh.


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## Sadoun

Professional belly dancers in the Islamic countries are not respected by the mostly conservative public. Belly dancing is not part of the Islamic tradition, rather it is an Arabic tradition.

However, belly dancing is very encouraged amongst women to dance in private within all women gathering or in private in front of their family and husband. Most women in the Middle East dance to a different level of skills.

In the USA, belly dancing is becoming popular as form of art and exercise routine.


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## Mahaodeh

samanthalee said:


> It was said that belly dancers have lowly status in their countries of origin.


 
Yes, that's true.  A professional belly dancer is viewed generally like a prostitute; I know it's a strong word, but let's be realistic - belly dancing is erotic and rather arousing for men.  It's not a lap dance but depending on her moves and what she's wearing, it may have a similar affect.  The disrespect is extended to those who work with her: the drummer (tabbal), the singer …etc.

In order not to generalize, I'll talk about the Arabian Peninsula, the Levantine and Iraq; I imagine the situation is similar in Egypt and North Africa but I've never been there so it's just an assumption.  Belly dancing is common but private, women dance it in front of other women only, usually in parties and weddings where the women's party and the men's party are separate (quite common in this region).  Dancing in front of men is very very limited, usually only in front of family members that can not have sexual feelings for those women (father, brother, uncle...etc.) or her husband.  However, little girls that have not gone through puberty yet may dance in front of men since they are not considered women yet.

In some un-conservative communities they may dance in front of men at parties but they usually "play it down" a little; they don't shake their bodies so hard, their moves are restricted...etc.  However, even in moderately conservative they just reduce it to shaking their arms and shoulders a little, if they choose to dance at all.


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## french4beth

I attended a belly-dance workshop recently (as it is becoming more & more popular in the northeast US, too), and the instructor mentioned that she had learned that belly-dancing was originally performed by women (for women) as childbirth preparation. She also thought that in modern times, fewer women were belly-dancing, so in order not to lose this art form, more women started dancing in public.
It's an incredible workout - I'm hooked!


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## Mahaodeh

french4beth said:


> and the instructor mentioned that she had learned that belly-dancing was originally performed by women (for women) as childbirth preparation. She also thought that in modern times, fewer women were belly-dancing, so in order not to lose this art form, more women started dancing in public.


 
I'm an Arab and quite a traditional one too, this is the first time I hear of such an idea.  There are no "rituals" as such that go with childbirth preparation, except for calling the midwife and informing close relaives.  There never was.


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## cherine

Mahaodeh said:


> I'm an Arab and quite a traditional one too, this is the first time I hear of such an idea. There are no "rituals" as such that go with childbirth preparation, except for calling the midwife and informing close relaives. There never was.


Good note Maha, when I read French4beth's post I thought she meant the celebration of the newborns 

If that was not the meaning, then I fully agree with Maha. There are no "rituals" to prepare for the birth of a child, but there are some customs for celebrating that birth (after it happens of course). You don't really think that a woman in labour would have the force, energy or even the will to dance 

Also the instructor is mistaken in that fewer women are dancing, in fact they're getting more numerous every day  Although it's not a respected "job", it's a very profitable one, and many girls of extremely poor families and with no education don't have too many better alternatives. It is still better than prostitution.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

cherine said:


> Good note Maha, when I read French4beth's post I thought she meant the celebration of the newborns
> 
> If that was not the meaning, then I fully agree with Maha. There are no "rituals" to prepare for the birth of a child, but there are some customs for celebrating that birth (after it happens of course). You don't really think that a woman in labour would have the force, energy or even the will to dance


 
Of course you Arab girls know better, but what I understood when I first read Beth's post is that belly dancing is supposedly a good way of exercising when you're pregnant and this way you assure yourself a not so painful delivery. We western women usually attend exercise courses in order to lessen the pain of delivery.


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## shannenms

In Iran I can say nobody loves such a thing, because it represents woman as a creature good only for her sexual appeal. This kind of dance is to some extent practically impossible for the Persian girls:
1-It involves many quick movements, which Persians are not interested in.
2-It is strictly prohibited by the government.
3-It is always accompanied with a music that the Persians NEVER love.

Thanks for your attention.


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## dafne.ne

In Barcelona (Catalonia) Belly Dancing is becoming more and more popular day by day. You can practice it in all good Gyms and Fitness Centres, for it seems to be a good way of physical training.  Besides, its music is good and their dancers use to wear very nice and exotic cloths.

In fact, several members  of my family and  also some friends of mine are practicing it, and according to their experience and advise, perhaps I should try it.


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## cherine

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Of course you Arab girls know better, but what I understood when I first read Beth's post is that belly dancing is supposedly a good way of exercising when you're pregnant and this way you assure yourself a not so painful delivery. We western women usually attend exercise courses in order to lessen the pain of delivery.


It may sound or seem as a good way of exercising, but trust me, no Arab pregnant woman would think of doing it. Walking is the more common exercice for them (well, "us", but I've never been pregnant before  ).


shannenms said:


> This kind of dance is to some extent practically impossible for the Persian girls:
> 1-It involves many quick movements, which Persians are not interested in.


Not necessarily. I've seen women dancing on very slow music. But I understand that it's not appealing for everybody everywhere.


dafne.ne said:


> its music is good and their dancers use to wear very nice and exotic cloths.


Dancers don't necessarily wear "exotic" clothes. There are even professional ones who dance -sometimes- in modest clothes. But of course the "exotic" is more common.

By the way, there are men who do belly dancing (not on a professional level of course, except for the "dancing trainers" or "choreographers"). I have to say that they are not very respected by others, it's generally considered sort of indecent, although some people find it funny.


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## Etcetera

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Belly dancing has become very, very popular here. The craze started about three years ago.


I think it's the same here: only a few years ago belly dancing was totally unknown to the majority of the population, and now it's quite popular. It seems that "soap operas" has contributed a lot to the popularity of belly dancing.


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## tvdxer

JamesM said:


> Belly dancing is offered as a form of aerobic exercise in many recreation programs, at least in California.   I have a few female relatives who swear by it as a form of exercise.



Same thing seems to be true in Minnesota.

Belly dancing is definitely seen as having sexual overtones, but it's also viewed as a way of staying in shape.


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## HistofEng

I've seen plenty of men belly dancing too.


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## Etcetera

tvdxer said:


> Same thing seems to be true in Minnesota.
> 
> Belly dancing is definitely seen as having sexual overtones, but it's also viewed as a way of staying in shape.


Oh, yes. Many advertisements mention that belly dancing can help you to stay in shape. 

But they normally forget to mention that it can be really dangerous for women with certain illnesses.


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## Mahaodeh

Etcetera said:


> But they normally forget to mention that it can be really dangerous for women with certain illnesses.


 
Really?  Like what? (other than heart related illnesses, in which case any "strong" activity can be dangerous.)


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## Etcetera

Mahaodeh said:


> Really?  Like what? (other than heart related illnesses, in which case any "strong" activity can be dangerous.)


Like some women illnesses - ovarian cyst, for example.


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## essa3

samanthalee said:


> It was said that belly dancers have lowly status in their countries of origin.
> .


 

That is very true, belly dancing is frowned upon in this part of the world. women of high status or high values do NOT belly dance. Nowadays, belly dancing classes are "in", even in here, but girls might join those calsses in complete discretion, so that their families wouldn't find out. 
Im guessing the reason for that is ancient arab men used to own women as slaves, or have multiple concubines and belly dancing was one of the "features" that were offered by those women.

But ofcourse, there is an excpetion to every rule. 

Ok, I didn't notice that there was a page 2 to this discussion lol. Thanks Mahaodeh for the explanation.


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## JazzByChas

In general, it is interesting to note that Belly Dancing originated in arabic countries, where it would now be considered very inflammatory to do such a thing

It is interesting, at least according to one article, that belly dancing was originally done only among women and adolescent girls in middle eastern countries to teach “…girls from an early age [a way] to strengthen their abdominal muscles in preparation for childbirth” (source). Apparently, after Hollywood got a hold of it, it became more sensual for popular appeal.

In Hawaii, the hula dance, which is very similar, was done to pay homage to visiting chiefs, where the dances “…celebrat[ed] his lineage, his name, and even his [virility] (_hula ma’__i_) (source)

In our country, with its predominantly Americanized Eurpean culture, we are more accepting of such dances, and apply them to excersise.


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## Mahaodeh

Well that isn't exactly a scholarly article, is it?


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## Singinswtt11

essa3 said:


> Im guessing the reason for that is ancient arab men used to own women as slaves, or have multiple concubines and belly dancing was one of the "features" that were offered by those women.


 
That actually makes a lot of sense. In no way assuming that I'm well-versed in Middle Eastern culture, this perspective helped clear things up. Thanks Essa!   I was wondering the same thing as a couple of other posters - how ironic that Arabic countries, where conservative women are so valued, would be the origin of bellydancing. 

So it's safe to say that it's growing popularity is a more western attitude?


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## Mahaodeh

Singinswtt11 said:


> That actually makes a lot of sense. In no way assuming that I'm well-versed in Middle Eastern culture, this perspective helped clear things up. Thanks Essa!  I was wondering the same thing as a couple of other posters - how ironic that Arabic countries, where conservative women are so valued, would be the origin of bellydancing.


 
I think there is a misunderstanding here - any dance with "strong" moves by women is frowned upon *in public*.  Dancing privately is another issue. The dance is originally not for men to watch, women, sitting alone at a wedding (men are elswhere, including the groom) or in any other similar celebration start to dance, belly dancing is one of dances they had. Of course, men like to watch it and that's when prostitutes and other women of that caliber started to use it in front of men.

I personally don't agree with Issa and I think it originated naturally like any other dance - it just seemed a little more "erotic" and that's why men became more interested in it than they did in any other dance.

There is no proof that belly dancing originated so long ago anyway.


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