# Spezzare una lancia in favore di qualcuno



## Fairyeli

Ciao a tutti!
Qualcuno può dirmi se esiste un modo di dire inglese con lo stesso significato di questo? Oppure anche una traduzione!
Grazie in anticipo  

Fairyeli

Hi all!
Could anyone tell me if it exists a way of saying for this in english?
It is good a translation too!
Thank you 

Fairyeli


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## Jana337

Fairyeli said:
			
		

> Ciao a tutti!
> Qualcuno può dirmi se esiste un modo di dire inglese con lo stesso significato di questo? Oppure anche una traduzione!
> Grazie in anticipo
> 
> Fairyeli


To root for someone
To stand shoulder to shoulder with someone
To plead someone's cause
To strike a blow for someone
To wave the flag for someone
... e molti altri - dipende dal contesto, come sempre. 

Jana


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## Fairyeli

Jana337 said:
			
		

> To root for someone
> To stand shoulder to shoulder with someone
> To plead someone's cause
> To strike a blow for someone
> To wave the flag for someone
> ... e molti altri - dipende dal contesto, come sempre.
> 
> Jana


 
Grazie tante Jana!
questa frase deve dare l'idea che chi la dice spalleggi solo momentaneamente qualcuno, oppure solo una parte del comportamento di qualcuno:
Quale ti sembra più adatta?

......vorrei spezzare una lancia nei confronti di Duccio, non per giustificare il suo comportamento, ma perchè sono intercorsi fattori esterni nella vicenda......


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## Jana337

Fairyeli said:
			
		

> Grazie tante Jana!
> questa frase deve dare l'idea che chi la dice spalleggi solo momentaneamente qualcuno, oppure solo una parte del comportamento di qualcuno:
> Quale ti sembra più adatta?


Hm, capisco - non si deve necessariamente trattare di un'appoggiatura permanente, giusto? Lasciami pensarci sopra - le mie frasi sarebbero tutti più o meno adatte per un'attitudine permanente, direi.

Jana


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## Jana337

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Hm, capisco - non si deve necessariamente trattare di un'appoggiatura permanente, giusto? Lasciami pensarci sopra - le mie frasi sarebbero tutti più o meno adatte per un'attitudine permanente, direi.
> 
> Jana


Pensandoci un po' mi pare che "to strike a blow for someone" si possa usare anche per quello che intendi tu. Poì ci sono modi di dire come "to back someone up", "to speak up for somebody".

Ah, già ci siamo - quello che cercavo era "to jump to somebody's defence". Va bene, no?

Comunque sarebbe ottimo se potessi descriverci tutta la situazione per cui vuoi usare quest'espressione. 

EDIT: Ormai vedo il tuo edit. Per essere sincera non mi piace molto in inglese "I would like to jump to his defence" perché se si vuole farlo, se lo fa (oddio, sicuramente l'ho sbagliato) senza parlarne troppo, no? Non lo userei affatto per la prima persona - solo per la descrizione degli atti altrui: ... But then, suddenly, an unknown woman jumped to my defence...
Vediamo che diranno i madrelingua.

Jana


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## Fairyeli

Grazie tante ancora!
Spero di poterlo fare nei prossimi giorni, ora devo assolutamente dormire!!!!!
Ciao, Fairyeli


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## Manuel_M

*To break a lance in favour of* is used in British English.


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## Plodder

"Break a lance" is not a common British expression.  I had not heard of it till today, but with a little research I found examples in older works - Shakespeare etc and some in more modern writings.  From the context I understand this expression in English to mean "to take a risk for someone / something."

Hope this helps and is of interest.

Plodder


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## moodywop

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Pensandoci un po' mi pare che "to strike a blow for someone" si possa usare anche per quello che intendi tu. Poì ci sono modi di dire come "to back someone up", "to speak up for somebody".
> 
> Ah, già ci siamo - quello che cercavo era "to jump to somebody's defence". Va bene, no?
> 
> 
> Jana


 
Jana

From the context it is evident that the speaker *agrees* that what Duccio did is wrong but he thinks there are mitigating circumstances that have not been given enough consideration. So I think the translations you provided, esp. "speak up for" , are fine.
I don't think there is a phrase in English expressing the nuance that your support for someone is limited/conditional(which is definitely implicit in the Italian phrase), _play devil's advocate _is not quite right but it may give you an idea of what I mean.
At school I might say:

*Sì, è giusto che Giuseppe sia punito. Non avrebbe dovuto tirare un calcio a Luigi. Ma vorrei spezzare una lancia a/in suo favore e chiedere una punizione meno severa. Il ragazzino era esasperato per via delle continue umiliazioni che deve sopportare da parte di un gruppo di bulletti*

Can anyonethink of a phrase in English that can render this nuance?

Carlo


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## erick

moodywop said:
			
		

> Sì, è giusto che Giuseppe sia punito. Non avrebbe dovuto tirare un calcio a Luigi. Ma vorrei spezzare una lancia a/in suo favore e chiedere una punizione meno severa. Il ragazzino era esasperato per via delle continue umiliazioni che deve sopportare da parte di un gruppo di bulletti
> 
> Can anyonethink of a phrase in English that can render this nuance?



Si può dire "_in Giuseppe's defense_ I would like to appeal for a less severe punishment, considering his actions were that of a victim provoked by the continuous humiliation of a group of bullies."

Si può soltanto cominciare la frase con "In his defense ... "   "In defense of Giuseppe ..."  "I would like to make a point on behalf of Giuseppe ..."  Ma non userei "I would like to."  Invece di usare "I would like to jump to his defence," sarebbe meglio dire "In his defense ..." e poi spiegare la ragione per difenderlo.  Se vuoi usare "I," preferei una frase come, "I would like to present a few points in favor of Giuseppe's actions ..."


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## Silvia

Vorrei allacciarmi alla spiegazione di Carlo, sottolineando però il fatto che, secondo me, non c'è connivenza di chi parla nei confronti dell'oggetto della frase.

Faccio un esempio:
C'è una riunione di condominio, a cui partecipano 30 persone. Vengono presentate due proposte per risistemare il giardino del condominio: quella di Gino è di 5.000,00 €, quella di Maria è di 3.000,00 €. Ora, tutti votano per la proposta di Maria, perché costa meno (tipico degli italiani   ). Federico si alza in piedi e prende la parola:"_Vorrei spezzare una lancia a favore della proposta presentata da Gino: è vero che il costo è maggiore, ma il lavoro è sicuramente migliore, infatti include anche la risistemazione della fontana e la potatura delle siepi per un anno._" Quindi mi sento di dire che spezzare una lancia si usa quando tutti sono contro una cosa, e colui che parla sa o prevede di trovarsi tutti contro.

Chiaro il concetto?


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## Elisa68

Jana337 said:
			
		

> se lo fa (oddio, sicuramente l'ho sbagliato) senza parlarne troppo, no?
> Jana


Si', ma non di molto! _Lo si fa. _
_Se lo fa, _means _if he does it. _


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## leenico

Fairyeli said:
			
		

> Ciao a tutti!
> Qualcuno può dirmi se esiste un modo di dire inglese con lo stesso significato di questo? Oppure anche una traduzione!
> Grazie in anticipo
> 
> Fairyeli
> 
> Hi all!
> Could anyone tell me if it exists a way of saying for this in english?
> It is good a translation too!
> Thank you
> 
> Fairyeli


To me it, seems the meaning is to "extend the fig leaf in favor of someone." Don't create a hostile environment, rather try a peaceful approach.


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## carrickp

IMO:
"I'd like to put in a word in his defence."
"I'd like to put in a word in favor of Gino's proposal."
You could substitute "add a word" for "put in a word" depending on whether someone else had spoken previously in favor of the idea.

I think Erik has it pretty much right. "Jump to" is too strong.

I can't agree with the "fig leaf" suggestion. in AE, at least, the expression "fig leaf" originated as a reference to using a fig leaf to hide the genitals of a subject of a sculpture or painting. It goes back to Adam and Eve covering themselves with fig leaves after eating the forbidden apple of knowledge. Therefore to "put a fig leaf" over something means to conceal or avoid its sensual implications; to bowdlerize something.

Perhaps "fig leaf" has been confused with "extend an olive branch," which means to offer a gesture of peacemaking.


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## leenico

carrickp said:
			
		

> IMO:
> "I'd like to put in a word in his defence."
> "I'd like to put in a word in favor of Gino's proposal."
> You could substitute "add a word" for "put in a word" depending on whether someone else had spoken previously in favor of the idea.
> 
> I think Erik has it pretty much right. "Jump to" is too strong.
> 
> I can't agree with the "fig leaf" suggestion. in AE, at least, the expression "fig leaf" originated as a reference to using a fig leaf to hide the genitals of a subject of a sculpture or painting. It goes back to Adam and Eve covering themselves with fig leaves after eating the forbidden apple of knowledge. Therefore to "put a fig leaf" over something means to conceal or avoid its sensual implications; to bowdlerize something.
> 
> Perhaps "fig leaf" has been confused with "extend an olive branch," which means to offer a gesture of peacemaking.


I have to apologize. In my mind I was thinking olive branch, and subconciously wrote fig leaf. You can see the areas where my mind wanders.


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## Silvia

carrickp said:
			
		

> "I'd like to put in a word in his defence."
> "I'd like to put in a word in favor of Gino's proposal."


 Bravo!   That's it.


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## Nashledanou

Posso tradurre con "put in a plug for someone"?


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## giginho

******NEW QUESTION********

I'm in a discussion with a native BE speaker. We disagree on something; he told me he disagree with me and asked me an information. I gave him the info and then I'd like to say something that can explain my point of view on which he disagrees:

"lasciami spezzare una lancia in mio favore.....".

My try:

"let me, please, wave my flag....."

Not sure if this make sense.

Thanks!


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## sound shift

(In reply to post 18)

"Wave my flag" doesn't seem idiomatic in your context.

I suggest "Let me explain what I mean." If I knew how you intended to explain your point of view, I might be able to suggest an idiom.

(By the way, "an information" is not possible here, because "information" in this sense is uncountable. He asked you *for some* information.)


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## giginho

sound shift said:


> If I knew how you intended to explain your point of view, I might be able to suggest an idiom.



Well, the point is that he asked me to do a job, I asked to be paid X for that; he says that even though I can do that job I'm not enough qualified to get that money....but I don't think so and I would like to say:

"Lasciami spezzare una lancia a mio favore, anche se non ho questa specifica qualifica ho queste altre qualifiche difficilmente reperibili sul mercato....ecco perché chiedo X per fare questo lavoro"


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## rrose17

I think in this context you could say "In my defense..." but I think better is something like "If I may/can toot my own horn..." which is much more idiomatic than waving your own flag. 
Just to add that "In my defense" sounds more like you've done something already and you're trying to defend it.


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## giginho

Toot my own horn sounds good to me!

In my defense, seems to me that I've done something wrong and now I'm trying to find a way for justifying myself.....am I wrong?


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## rrose17

giginho said:


> In my defense, seems to me that I've done something wrong and now I'm trying to find a way for justifying myself.....am I wrong?


Absolutely, as I wrote... 


rrose17 said:


> Just to add that "In my defense" sounds more like you've done something already and you're trying to defend it.


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## giginho

Sorry Ron,

I wasn't sure you meant I've done something *wrong
*
Thanks for your help!


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## sound shift

"To toot my horn" (BrE: "to blow my own trumpet") means to boast (_vantare_?), not to explain one's point of view.


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## giginho

sound shift said:


> "To toot my horn" (BrE: "to blow my own trumpet") means to boast (_vantare_?), not to explain one's point of view.



Oh, wow.....boast is vantarsi, darsi delle arie, definitely NOT what I want to say!


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## theartichoke

giginho said:


> Oh, wow.....boast is vantarsi, darsi delle arie, definitely NOT what I want to say!



I think the expression you need is "Let me make my case."

"Lasciami spezzare una lancia a mio favore, anche se non ho questa specifica qualifica ho queste altre qualifiche difficilmente reperibili sul mercato....ecco perché chiedo X per fare questo lavoro"

"If I could make my own case for a moment: even though I don't have this specific qualification, I've got these other qualifications that are fairly hard to find, and that's why I'm asking X for the job."


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## rrose17

sound shift said:


> "To toot my horn" (BrE: "to blow my own trumpet") means to boast (_vantare_?), not to explain one's point of view.


But in_ this_ context, where the person she's talking to doesn't think she's qualified enough, I think tooting one's own horn makes sense. Tooting one's own horn I suppose is a kind of boasting but, again in this context, it's more shining a light on one's best qualities, especially if you say "If I may" before it. That being said I think arti's "make my own case" is good, too!


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## Benzene

giginho said:


> Oh, wow.....boast is vantarsi, darsi delle arie, definitely NOT what I want to say!


_Maybe "let me tell something in support of myself".

Bye,

*Benzene*_


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## theartichoke

rrose17 said:


> But in_ this_ context, where the person she's talking to doesn't think she's qualified enough, I think tooting one's own horn makes sense. Tooting one's own horn I suppose is a kind of boasting but, again in this context, it's more shining a light on one's best qualities, especially if you say "If I may" before it. That being said I think arti's "make my own case" is good, too!



I can totally see using "toot my own horn" in a friendlier exchange, but I'd say that when someone's arguing that you're not qualified enough to deserve the fee that you charge for your work, you probably want to avoid that hint of self-deprecation that's involved in using the expression _to toot one's own horn _about _oneself_. If you say about someone else "he likes to toot his own horn," you're disparaging him as a boastful so-and-so; but if you say "_If I may toot my own horn...._" you're kind of apologizing in advance for being about to say something positive about yourself. In the rather unpleasant situation giginho is dealing with, "make my case" keeps it  neutral.


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## giginho

Ok, fellow, I got your points, so in my particular case I choose Arti's "make my case".

Thanks a lot for your kind help!


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