# Persian: تزاول آن روی نهکو بوادی



## shannenms

This line is from Hafez, at first I thought it might be Arabic but when I asked it in Arabic forum I found out that it is not Arabic. Please tell me what language this can be.

تزاول آن روی نهکو بوادی

Thanks.


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## raptor

I typed it into google, and the results included a .ir (Iran) website, and allpersian.com, so I'm guessing Persian.

Wait for someone knows for sure though 

raptor


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## Matamoscas

I'm guessing it's not Farsi if shannenms doesn't recognise it.  Not Assyrian?


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## sokol

Ask in the Turkish forum - that would be the next best bet, I think, as in the Osman Empire Turkish was written in Arabic script.


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## cherine

Let's check here first. Then, if it turns out to be Turkish, we can move the thread there.

Shannenms, is there any chance this could be Persian with some mistakes? or Old Persian?
Did Hafez speak/write Urdu?


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## shannenms

cherine said:


> Let's check here first. Then, if it turns out to be Turkish, we can move the thread there.
> 
> Shannenms, is there any chance this could be Persian with some mistakes? or Old Persian?
> Did Hafez speak/write Urdu?


 
There is absolutely no mistake in it. I have many books on interpreting the poems of Hafez but this one that we are talking about is discussed in neither of them.
That could not be Middle Persian, becuase I am familiar with Pahlavi, Middle Persian, and it cannot be old Persian either.

As far as I know Hafez doesn't have any poem in Urdu, so I can guess he was not able to speak or write any Urdu.

I think there are three possibilities:
1-It is some dialect of Persian that I don't know
2-It is Tataric, because Hafez was alive when golden Horde devestated Iran. 
3-It is a mixture of Arabic and Persian, because تزاول as Persian dictionary quotes from منتهی الارب  means "try together", the second word  آن  is Persian meaning "that", and so on. From the structure of the poem, which begins with two lines in Arabic, then one line in Persian the other in Arabic, and so on, it seems to me that it is another structure, using a word in Persian and Arabic, or some other languages.

I can quote here the rest of this poem which is still unknown to me, if you like


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## Alijsh

shannenms said:


> That could not be Middle Persian, becuase I am familiar with Pahlavi, Middle Persian, and it cannot be old Persian either.
> 
> As far as I know Hafez doesn't have any poem in Urdu, so I can guess he was not able to speak or write any Urdu.


We didn't have Urdu 600 years ago, have we? 

I have heard that some parts of the poems of Hafez and some other poets is in Pahlavi as it wasn't still a dead language (in fact, people still spoke it although they wrote in "Persian of the court" i.e. Dari Persian). This can be one of them. Which Ghazal this poem belongs to? Please write me its number?

In this regard, نهکو suggests نیکو. h represents long e sound (ē). and I'm sure you know the meaning of Pahlavi بوادی (bavâdi). 

Can تزاول be تو از اول?


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## shannenms

This poem begins with an Arabic line:
سبت سلما بصدغیها فوادی
و روحی کل یوم لی ینادی

All best,


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## Alijsh

Eureka. yâftam yâftam :lol: As I had guessed, it's in a dialect. Dehkhodâ says it's in Old Shirâzi dialect. Here it is:

در غزل حافظ بلهجه شیرازی قدیم است و «بوادی» یعنی بباید دیدن . و شعری از او است:
امن انکرتنی عن عشق سلمی
تزاول آن روی نهکو بوادی .

حافظ.

و معنی شعر چنین است : ای کسی که بر من انکار کردی از عشق سلمی,  تو از اول آن روی نیکو را بایستی دیده باشی


As I had guessed تزاول is تو از اول​


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## cherine

Any possibility of a translation for the poor ignorants of Persian?


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## Alijsh

cherine said:


> Any possibility of a translation for the poor ignorants of Persian?


I looked up salami (سلمی). It says it's the name of An Arab ma'shugha (معشوقه) and is also figuratively used to suggest any "beloved". Have you heard about this woman?


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## shannenms

Thank you Alijsh.
The rest of this poem is in this language.


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## cherine

Alijsh said:


> I looked up salami (سلمی). It says it's the name of An Arab ma'shugha (معشوقه) and is also figuratively used to suggest any "beloved". Have you heard about this woman?


Thanks Alijsh 
The name is Salma (second "a" is long), it's a woman's name, and it's used in many Arab poems (and, apparently, some Persian poems too) to suggest any beloved, as you said.
The Arabic verses of this poem were discussed in this thread, this one and this one.

But I was actually asking about a possible translation of this post:  


Alijsh said:


> Eureka. yâftam yâftam :lol: As I had guessed, it's in a dialect. Dehkhodâ says it's in Old Shirâzi dialect. Here it is:
> 
> در غزل حافظ بلهجه شیرازی قدیم است و «بوادی» یعنی بباید دیدن . و شعری از او است:
> امن انکرتنی عن عشق سلمی
> تزاول آن روی نهکو بوادی .​
> حافظ.​
> و معنی شعر چنین است : ای کسی که بر من انکار کردی از عشق سلمی, تو از اول آن روی نیکو را بایستی دیده باشی​
> 
> 
> As I had guessed تزاول is تو از اول​


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## shannenms

cherine said:


> Thanks Alijsh
> The name is Salma (second "a" is long), it's a woman's name, and it's used in many Arab poems (and, apparently, some Persian poems too) to suggest any beloved, as you said.
> The Arabic verses of this poem were discussed in this thread, this one and this one.
> 
> But I was actually asking about a possible translation of this post:


 
I do it for you cherine:
The Persian lines say:



> This poem is told by Hafez in ancient Shirazi dialect, in which «بوادی» means "have to see".
> And the whole line says:
> You that didn't allow me the love of Salma, must have seen her beautiful face before me.


 
Sorry Alijsh,

Thanks.


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## cherine

Thanks Shannenms 

By the way, I think that the Arabic part يا من أنكرتني عن عشق سلمى (I know beleive it's a يا not just an alef) would better be "you who *blamed* me".
By the way, this idea is also common in many Arabic poems: you who blame me for loving X, it's because you haven't seen her beauty (or: it's because you're jealous) 

Thanks again guys, this has been an interesting thread.


One last question, as a moderator, do you think we can replace the title "old shirazi" with "Persian"? Or are they two different languages?


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## shannenms

cherine said:


> Thanks Shannenms
> 
> By the way, I think that the Arabic part يا من أنكرتني عن عشق سلمى (I know beleive it's a يا not just an alef) would better be "you who *blamed* me".
> By the way, this idea is also common in many Arabic poems: you who blame me for loving X, it's because you haven't seen her beauty (or: it's because you're jealous)
> 
> Thanks again guys, this has been an interesting thread.
> 
> 
> One last question, as a moderator, do you think we can replace the title "old shirazi" with "Persian"? Or are they two different languages?


 

Sorry, I forgot to add what shirazi is
Shiraz is a provine in the south of Iran, which is home of many great iranian poets, like Sa'di, Hafez..., shirazi is a Persian dialect not a new language, like the Arabic which is used in Lebenon and what is used in Mecca Mokarrame(maybe I am wrong about these arabic dialects).
Hence, I don't see it is a good idea to change the subject into shirazi, which can be a source of misunderstanding.

Thank you cherine, you are always helpful.


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## cherine

Thank *you*, Shannenms  I'll edit the title then.

P.S. You're not wrong: The Arabic spoken in Lebanon is different from the Arabic spoken in Saudi Arabia and also from other Arab countries.


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## shannenms

You are quite welcome!!!!!!
Meet you in Arabic forum with a bunch of Arabic Hafez poems!!!

Thank you all.


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