# Urdu: climate vs. weather



## Alfaaz

*Background: 
*موسم بھی اتنی جلد بدلتا نہیں تو پھر
بدلا ہے کیسے رنگ تمہارا جواب دو
کیوں چوڑا تمنے ساتھ ہمارا جواب دو 

UED and Platts give the following for "climate": کشور، اقلیم ، آب و ہوا ، رطوبت، فضا 
kishwar is often used for "country", aab-o-hawaa is used for climate and weather, ratubat doesn't make sense as it would mean moisture, and fazaa would be atmosphere...

*Question:* What word(s) are used in Urdu for "climate"? 

The use of mausam in the quoted poetry suggests that either 

mausam is used for both climate and weather, or...
the poet is trying to suggest the person changed his "color" ultra fast, or...
the poet didn't consider that in science "weather" is the condition of the atmosphere over a short period of time...like a day or week, while climate is the (information of) atmospheric behavior over longer periods for a time and place.....


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## marrish

Alfaaz SaaHib, _mausam_ means 'a season of the year' here, I'd suggest as other possibility.

For your original question, ''climate'' is ''_aab-o-havaa'_' in Urdu, which we use all the time.


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Alfaaz SaaHib, _mausam_ means 'a season of the year' here, I'd suggest as other possibility.


Thanks for pointing that out! I was just looking at def. #3 and didn't consider 1, 2, and 4.



> For your original question, ''climate'' is ''aab-o-havaa'' in Urdu, which we use all the time.


OK, but couldn't this also mean environment: شہر) کی آب و ہوا خراب ہے ایزما کے مریض کے لئے، اس لئے آپ کسی پہاڑی علاقے میں چلے جائیں)


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> OK, but couldn't this also mean environment: شہر) کی آب و ہوا خراب ہے ایزما کے مریض کے لئے، اس لئے آپ کسی پہاڑی علاقے میں چلے جاہیں)


No, it doesn't mean 'environment'. In this sentence, it means ''the city's climate, air''. It always means the climate of a place.


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:
> *موسم بھی اتنی جلد بدلتا نہیں تو پھر
> بدلا ہے کیسے رنگ تمہارا جواب دو
> کیوں *چوڑا* تمنے ساتھ ہمارا جواب دو


It's better to avoid spelling mistakes in poetry.



> UED and Platts give the following for "climate": کشور، اقلیم ، آب و ہوا ، رطوبت، فضا
> kishwar is often used for "country", aab-o-hawaa is used for climate and weather, ratubat doesn't make sense as it would mean moisture, and fazaa would be atmosphere...


Let me draw your attention to the fact that there is a galaxy of Urdu words which is used in many manners, not only literally but also figuratively. There are words that have their context in which they can take on a specific shade of meaning. To put it simply: there is no 1, 0 system. In the same way, there are different shades and usages of the word ''climate'' in English. If you think of them, you will surely reach the conclusion that most of them are figurative. All this been said, it is the same case with the rest of the cited words. 

When we speak of the 'weather', _موسم mausam_ is what is the right word to use in Urdu - like _کل کا موسم kal kaa mausam_.

The climate would be, as already suggested, _آب و ہوا aab-o-havaa_ but the confusion can arise when one has the English 'weather' in mind which can be also used in a sense where Urdu prefers _aab-o-havaa_: 

eg. _maiN Cambodia muntaqal hone jaa rahaa huuN par mujhe vahaaN kii aab-o-havaa kii xabar bhii nahiiN!_ 
I'm getting posted to Cambodia, but I even don't have any idea about the weather over there! 

In this sentence, _aab-o-havaa_ means 'climate' and the English 'weather' means 'climate', too!


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## greatbear

To add to the masala, what about climes?


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## Qureshpor

I think "mausam" is multi-valent term for "weather", "season" and "climate".

(Weather) mausam hai 3aashiqaanah....(Pakeeza) 

(Season) xizaaN kaa rang aa chalaa hai, mausam-i-bahaar meN (Dulaari)

(Climate) Inglistaan ke log apne mulk ke mausam ko hameshah mauzuu3-i-guftuguu banaa'e rakhte haiN!

aab-o-havaa is climate.


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## fdb

“Clime” and “climate” are the same word. They go back to the Greek writers on geography, who divided the northern hemisphere, from the equator to the North Pole, into seven klimata (singular: klima). Arabic iqlīm اقليم is borrowed from Greek and has the same technical meaning. The ancient Iranians had a very different concept of seven kišwar (Avestan karšuuar-), consisting of one large central, inhabited, region, surrounded by six small uninhabited regions (the ancient Indians had a similar belief). In Islamic Persia the traditional “seven kišwars” were reinterpreted as the seven klimata of Greek geographical theory, with the result that in Persian kišwar becomes a synonym of iqlīm.


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## greatbear

fdb said:


> “Clime” and “climate” are the same word.



Technically, yes - that is, they _mean_ the same thing; however, "clime" (esp. in plural "climes") is often used as the literary equivalent of the much bland "climate". In addition, in a sentence like "The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover  may seek warmer *climes *in winter, yet these are not strangers to our  land?" (source: _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_, 1975), one can't replace "climes" with "climates", as "warmer climes" means rather "warmer regions".
In Hindi/Urdu, "mausam" is indeed the polyvalent word, but not for "climes".


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## panjabigator

Greatbear, have you ever heard जलवायु for climate? It seems to be a direct translation of the Urdu आब अो हवा।


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## greatbear

panjabigator said:


> Greatbear, have you ever heard जलवायु for climate? It seems to be a direct translation of the Urdu आब अो हवा।



Yes, I have - it's an often-used word, and can also replace "climes" in the Monty Python example above; I didn't go there since the thread title is Urdu, and "jalvaayu" is, I think, an exclusively Hindi word.


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## fdb

fdb said:


> “Clime” and “climate” are the same word. They go back to the Greek writers on geography, who divided the northern hemisphere, from the equator to the North Pole, into seven klimata (singular: klima). Arabic iqlīm اقليم is borrowed from Greek and has the same technical meaning. The ancient Iranians had a very different concept of seven kišwar (Avestan karšuuar-), consisting of one large central, inhabited, region, surrounded by six small uninhabited regions (the ancient Indians had a similar belief). In Islamic Persia the traditional “seven kišwars” were reinterpreted as the seven klimata of Greek geographical theory, with the result that in Persian kišwar becomes a synonym of iqlīm.



What I intended is: "Clime" and "climate" are ETYMOLOGICALLY the same word. Of course, each has its own usage in English.


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## greatbear

fdb said:


> What I intended is: "Clime" and "climate" are ETYMOLOGICALLY the same word. Of course, each has its own usage in English.



I did get that - however, we are not discussing etymology here. Each having its own usage in English also calls for correspondingly different Urdu words.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> I did get that - however, we are not discussing etymology here. Each having its own usage in English also calls for correspondingly different Urdu words.


aab-o-havaa contains the semantic meaning of 'climes'. If I understand correctly, it would be nice to find a separate word for 'climes' in Urdu for the sake of clarity, but the requirement of a different word for every English usage is perhaps not necessary. In post 5 there is more on this.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> OK, but couldn't this also mean environment: شہر) کی آب و ہوا خراب ہے ایزما کے مریض کے لئے، اس لئے آپ کسی پہاڑی علاقے میں چلے جائیں)



Disagreeing with marrish SaaHib, I would say that mausam and aab-o-havaa do not have rigid, inflexible meanings. In your example "aab-o-havaa" can mean environment "maa-Haul" because mausam is part of the "maaHaul". By the way, no one has mentioned "samaaN" yet. I think it is a lovely word.


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> By the way, no one has mentioned "samaaN" yet. I think it is a lovely word.



Yes, but "samaaN" is a much wider word. "Baarish ne aaj kyaa samaaN baandh diyaa hai!" - "samaaN" conveys the mood of the environment, not the environment itself.


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> aab-o-havaa contains the semantic meaning of 'climes'. If I understand correctly, it would be nice to find a separate word for 'climes' in Urdu for the sake of clarity, but the requirement of a different word for every English usage is perhaps not necessary. In post 5 there is more on this.



Of course, it's not necessary, and "aab-o-havaa" can of course be used for "climes", something which I already said for its Hindi equivalent, "jalvaayuu".


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> Yes, but "samaaN" is a much wider word. "Baarish ne aaj kyaa samaaN baandh diyaa hai!" - "samaaN" conveys the mood of the environment, not the environment itself.



Exactly why I think it is such a lovely "charged" word. It does convey the meaning of "atmosphere", not in the "scientific" sense but in the "perception" sense.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Alfaaz SaaHib, _mausam_ means 'a season of the year' here, I'd suggest as other possibility.
> 
> For your original question, ''climate'' is ''_aab-o-havaa'_' in Urdu, which we use all the time.


ko'ii dunyaa meN magar baaGh nahiiN hai, Vaa3iz?
Xuld bhii baaGh hai, xair, *aab-o-havaa* aur sahii!


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## Sheikh_14

Wouldnt iqliim do just nicely for climes? Secondly, is kishwar used more often to mean country or region? In the quami tarana atleast it sides with the latter rather than the former.


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