# Norwegian: slange and orm



## eva nicolae

What is the difference between the two? I have Knausgaard saying at some point he is afraid of a _slange_, but not so much of an _orm _(because his wife, who is Swedish, called the _slange orm_, and so the sound of it was not so threatening). I see _orm_ also means "worm", so does it refer to (or suggest) maybe a smaller, more inocuous snake?


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## Ben Jamin

"Slange" is a reptile, and translates to English as "snake". "Orm" is a "tube formed animal" of any sort (snakes, worms and many others), and is a popular, not scientific word in Norwegian. Why Knausgård is not afraid of an "orm" is difficult to say, as a "huggorm" (which means "adder") is venomous and very dangerous.


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## NorwegianNYC

Actually - 'slange' and 'orm' are synonymous, outside that 'orm' can also be used for maggots and worms. When used on its own, 'orm' = 'slange'


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## raumar

I think I understand what Knausgård means - at least I can guess. Norwegian snakes, such as "_hoggorm_" (adder) have names ending with "_-orm_". Snakes from other parts of the word, such as "_klapperslange_" (rattlesnake), often have "_-slange_" instead, and I can't think of any foreign "_-orm_".  The reason might be that "_orm_" is the original word (from Old Norse), and therefore used for those snakes we have known for a very long time. In Norwegian - but not in Swedish - "_orm_" has partly been replaced with "_slange_". 

Compared with rattlesnakes, cobras and boa constrictors, the Norwegian "_orm_"-snakes are relatively harmless. I don't see the "_hoggorm_" as especially dangerous. It is true that it is venomous, but it is not aggressive. You should absolutely get to a doctor if it bites you, but its bite is very rarely fatal. 

So, I think I share Knausgård's feelings, or at least understand them: When somebody calls a rattlesnake an "_orm_", as the Swedes do, it may sound less threatening for a Norwegian.


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## eva nicolae

Thanks, raumar, what you wrote brought something else to my mind: that he may be dreaming about large long snakes (like a boa or something, though not necessarily recognized as such), which might be improperly named "ormer" in Norwegian. His wife tells how he once woke up terrified at night thinking - in the haze of a nightmare - that there's a snake in their bed, and this is the occasion when her naming it an "orm" elicited his reply that "orm" didn't sound so threatening. What he was seeing perhaps was more of a serpent (even in a religious sense, why not? There's so much talk about shame, innocence, human nature and so on in the book and in Knausgaard's musings). By the way, how do you call the biblical serpent or some mythological one, "orm" or "slange"?


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## eva nicolae

I skimmed through this:
https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slange_(symbol)
but didn't quite get enlightened.


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## raumar

eva nicolae said:


> how do you call the biblical serpent or some mythological one, "orm" or "slange"?



That depends on whether there is an old Norwegian tradition. A serpent from the Norse mythology (such as the Midgard Serpent) is an "_orm_", and a sea monster (like the one in Loch Ness) is a "_sjøorm_". The biblical serpent is a "_slange_", and so are serpents from other foreign mythologies. (At least in Bokmål - "_orm_" is more often used in Nynorsk).


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## eva nicolae

Look here:
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/etymology.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/ie/piet&text_number=2673&root=config
"slange" seems to be equally old.

It's interesting why sometimes your ancestors chose to say "orm" and other times, "slange". Somewhere else I read (briefly) that "slangi" was rarely used in Old Norse. But, as you say, it did make it into the Bible.


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## NorwegianNYC

'Orm' is the Old Norse term for snake/serpent. 'Slange' is borrowed from Low German in more or less the same meaning


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## eva nicolae

NYC, I am not sure I understand. "Slangi" seems to have existed with the meaning of snake in Old Norse, which, as far as I know, precedes Low German. Do you mean Old Low German? Is there any source that discusses the borrowing? It's an interesting subject.


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## Segorian

My etymological dictionary (_Íslensk orðsifjabók, 1989_) gives _slangi_ in the meaning “serpent” as having been borrowed into Old Norse directly from Middle Low German. However, the word occurs rarely; so rarely, in fact, that it may have been used only in texts that were either direct translations of German narratives or based on such material. For example, _slangi_ occurs once in _Þiðreks saga af Bern_, a text which otherwise uses _ormr_ for this kind of animal. The sentence in question concerns a helmet decorated with a particular kind of snake:

Þar var á markaðr ormr sá, er slangi heitir. (“On it was drawn a snake of the kind called _slangi_.”)​


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## eva nicolae

Thank you, Segorian, that is very interesting. Perhaps that particular kind of snake was of a special form or maybe it had a certain symbolism attached to it. Otherwise why would they borrow a new word? It makes it even more interesting to understand how the word came to be used to mean the biblical serpent.


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## Segorian

The symbolism is at least partially explained in the story. The _slangi_ is described as being “of the colour of gold, a symbol of [the knight’s] chivalry” and “full of venom, a symbol of [his] fighting spirit and fierceness”. The use of the German word (with an Old Norse ending) may simply be a consequence of the type of snake in question being considered exotic. Or perhaps the writer was working from a Middle Low German text using the two words _wurm_ and _slange_.


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## NorwegianNYC

I think they became interchangeable later. An interesting sidenote is that the Yiddish insult "schlong" ["you schlong!"] (= penis) is from the same root


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## Segorian

NorwegianNYC said:


> An interesting sidenote is that the Yiddish insult "schlong" ["you schlong!"] (= penis) is from the same root



An old Icelandic poem has _þú inn vondi slangi_, but that probably means “you miserable tramp” or something like that.


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