# 是不是学习 / 学习不学习



## cheshire

I learned a couple of ways to make a question sentence. I saw (1）in my textbook but thought (2） would also be possible. Is that right? Is there any difference in meaning? Which is more natural? Which is more frequently used?

（1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
（2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？​


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## jiey

cheshire said:


> I learned a couple of ways to make a question sentence. I saw (1）in my textbook but thought (2） would also be possible. Is that right? Is there any difference in meaning? Which is more natural? Which is more frequently used?
> 
> （1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？​（2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？​


Both are nature, but with different implications:
（1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
When you ask this question, it implies that you cannot make sure either he is studying at the college or what he is learning is Chinese. Maybe you want to ask where he is stuying, maybe you want to know what his subject is, maybe both.


（2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？
With this question, you are quite sure that he is studying at Sichuan college, you just want to know whether he is studying Chinese or not.

Hope it can help


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## cheshire

啊，差多了！没想到有那么差多哪！
谢谢jiey老师！


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## jiey

cheshire said:


> 啊，差多了！没想到有那么大的差异哪！


 
You are welcome


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## hly2004

Hi：
（1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
Is he learning Chinese language in Sichuan University?
 （2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？
这句话很别扭，意思不清晰

Hope it helps


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## cheshire

Is (2) "uncomfortable" (awkward)? Is that what you say?


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## cbaker

I find that we often express this sort of question focus through emphasis in spoken English, where Chinese tends to rely more on syntax (word order) like in your examples. Consider the difference between these two sentences:

_*Is*_ he learning English at Sichuan University? (or is he not?)
Is he _*learning English*_ at Sichuan University? (or is he doing something else there?)


In this type of English question sentence, we would use lowered pitch to emphasize the words in bold. My guess is that because it would mess up tones, Chinese tends to rely less on this type of emphasis and more on syntax (same with particles like 吗 etc.)

I think the most unnatural thing about sentence 2 is that you should have dropped the first 习：it should be 学不学习。This still might be rather unnatural.


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## hly2004

cheshire said:


> Is (2) "uncomfortable" (awkward)? Is that what you say?


嗯，是的


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## samanthalee

I agree with cbaker. The awkwardness is in the first 习。 Alternatively, we will usually say 他在四川大学*是不是学习*汉语的? or 他在四川大学*有没有**学习*汉语?


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## hly2004

其实要表达的意思是：

他在四川大学是否要学习汉语？
或者，更简单的：
他在四川大学学不学汉语？

：-）


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## cheshire

Ah, is (2) wrong because *学习 *is constituted by VERB and OBJECT?


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## hly2004

Hi：
I think（2） is not wrong. It is understandable. 
I can understand it. But It will take me a pause before I can understand what the meaning is.


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## jiey

cheshire said:


> Ah, is (2) wrong because *学习 *is constituted by VERB and OBJECT?


 
Actually nothing is wrong with sentence (2). It is, how to say, just a little redundant, but I often hear and go with it.


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## cheshire

Ah, this time I understand it!
*Both 学 and 习 means about the same thing. That's the reason of it feeling redundant.*


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## hly2004

Hi:
重复的情况在中文口语中经常会出现：

例如：
你的方法值得我们学习学习
我们来探讨探讨一下这个问题
参加考试前我要复习复习英语


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## Gracely

cheshire said:


> I learned a couple of ways to make a question sentence. I saw (1）in my textbook but thought (2） would also be possible. Is that right? Is there any difference in meaning? Which is more natural? Which is more frequently used?
> 
> （1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？​
> （2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？​


 
(1) is more natural


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## cheshire

Thank you folks!



jiey said:


> Both are nature, but with different implications:
> （1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
> When you ask this question, it implies that you cannot make sure either he is studying at the college or what he is learning is Chinese. Maybe you want to ask where he is stuying, maybe you want to know what his subject is, maybe both.
> 
> 
> （2）他在四川大学*学习不学习*汉语？
> With this question, you are quite sure that he is studying at Sichuan college, you just want to know whether he is studying Chinese or not.
> 
> Hope it can help



abcdefghi(verb)(不verb)jklmn...​For this type of question, is there any case in which any "abcd...hi" can be a question?


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## kastner

I don't know why hly2004 says 2) is "awkward"?

As cbaker quotes,

他在四川大学学习不学习汉语？ means
I know he studies in Sichuan Uni, major in Chemistry (whatever but not Chinese), still, i wanna know does he also study Chinese aside his mojor?

It's like

听说你是英语专业的，那你学习不学习日语？（几乎所有大学里，语言类专业学生都要学习第二外语）


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## cheshire

Thanks, now I understand it completely!

Could you tell me also if (2) and (3) are possible?

（1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
(2) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语的？
(3) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习的汉语？


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## kastner

Yes, they are all exist.

（1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
Is he studying Mandarin in Sichuan University?

(2) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语的？
Has he been studying/Does he study Mandarin in Sichuan University? -be uncertain of his occupation, normally instead of asking the question “他是干什么的？”

(3) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习的汉语？
Did he study (acquire) Mandarin in Sichuan University? -That is to say, not anywhere else but Sichuan University


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## xiaolijie

cheshire said:


> Thanks, now I understand it completely!
> 
> Could you tell me also if (2) and (3) are possible?
> 
> （1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
> (2) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语的？
> (3) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习的汉语？


 
Both (2) and (3) are fine.



> *学习* is constituted by VERB and OBJECT?


 Where did you get this information? 学习 is not a [Verb+Object] formation.


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## cheshire

kastner said:


> Yes, they are all exist.
> 
> （1）他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语？
> Is he studying Mandarin in Sichuan University?
> 
> (2) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习汉语的？
> Has he been studying/Does he study Mandarin in Sichuan University? -be uncertain of his occupation, normally instead of asking the question “他是干什么的？”
> 
> (3) 他*是不是*在四川大学学习的*汉语*？
> Did he study (acquire) Mandarin in Sichuan University? -That is to say, not anywhere else but Sichuan University


Thanks xiaolijie and Kastner!

I think I got it! In (3), *汉语 *is not what the questioner is asking about. 的 limits the scope of a question, so to speak.


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## kastner

cheshire said:


> Thanks xiaolijie and Kastner!
> 
> I think I got it! In (3), *汉语 *is not what the questioner is asking about. 的 limits the scope of a question, so to speak.



Right.
的 could go after Predicate (normally after Verb), to stress the dominator (of the action), or the time, place, manner etc.
e.g.

这是*谁*买的书？ - Dominator
我是*昨天*回的家。 -Time
他在*食堂*吃的饭。-Place


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## kastner

oh, forgot to say,
The usage is only in the Past Time.


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## xiaolijie

> 这是*谁*买的书？ - Dominator
> 我是*昨天*回的家。 -Time
> 他在*食堂*吃的饭。-Place


Kastner, the examples you gave here will manage to confuse the hell out of everyone, because they mix up grammatically-distinct structures together! (They are not all the same type as Cheshire's examples 1, 2 & 3 above.)


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## kastner

xiaolijie said:


> Kastner, the examples you gave here will manage to confuse the hell out of everyone, because they mix up grammatically-distinct structures together! (They are not all the same type as Cheshire's examples 1, 2 & 3 above.)




What you mean? I don't get it.

My examples are follow-ups of Cheshire's 3)
他是不是在*四川大学*学习的汉语？

			 				这是*谁*买的书？ - Dominator, also 这是不是*你*买的书？
我是*昨天*回的家。 -Time, also 你是不是*昨天*回的家？
他在*食堂*吃的饭。-Place, 他是不是在*食堂*吃的饭？ 

All these are of the same grammar I explained above. Anything wrong?


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## xiaolijie

What I meant was:
Cheshire's 3 examples above are the type of sentences in which the emphatic element is highlighted/ encircled by *是...（的）*, such as:
我*是*昨天来*的*
我*是*开车来*的*
Whereas your: 
1. [这]*是*[谁买的书？] is of the type: [A] *是* *
2. 我是昨天回的家 is a variation of the 是...的 type （same as Cheshire's）, which is equivalent to 我是昨天回家的
3. 他在食堂吃的饭 is more readily interpreted as a noun phrase than a sentence, which is again very different in structure from your 1 and 2: [他在食堂吃的饭]是什么饭？*


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## kastner

xiaolijie said:


> What I meant was:
> Cheshire's 3 examples above are the type of sentences in which the emphatic element is highlighted/ encircled by *是...（的）*, such as:
> 我*是*昨天来*的*
> 我*是*开车来*的*
> Whereas your:
> 1. [这]*是*[谁买的书？] is of the type: [A] *是* *
> 2. 我是昨天回的家 is a variation of the 是...的 type （same as Cheshire's）, which is equivalent to 我是昨天回家的
> 3. 他在食堂吃的饭 is more readily interpreted as a noun phrase than a senteces, which is again very different from your 1 and 2: [他在食堂吃的饭]是什么饭？*


*

Alright, now I know what you think.

First, you may know 是…的 the structure is not always exist. cheshire's exampls 是不是 is only for questioning,
他是不是在四川大学学习汉语？= 他在四川大学学习汉语（吗）？= 他在四川大学学习汉语（吧）？
example 1) is not using 是…的 as you mentioned. 

Second, cheshire's 3) and my examples all use the structure  ……的, that's why I gave more instances for it
他是不是在四川大学学习的汉语？= 他在四川大学学习的汉语？
这是谁买的书？= 谁买的书？
我是昨天回的家。=我昨天回的家。
他在食堂吃的饭。
是 is not indispensable to these sentences.

What I wanna explain further to cheshire is



			I think I got it! In (3), 汉语 is not what the questioner is asking about. 的 limits the scope of a question, so to speak.
		
Click to expand...

on this question, the usage of 的*


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## xiaolijie

It's fine kastner. The topic seems to have progressed beyond what the OP originally asked anyway, so I'll just call it a day.


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## kastner

xiaolijie said:


> It's fine kastner. The topic seems to have progressed beyond what the OP originally asked anyway, so I'll just call it a day.



Yup, sometimes the grammar is not strict, especially in oral languages.

*是* be missing is quite common

你谁啊？ instead of saying 你是谁啊？ If you think it's weird, how about
我们俩谁跟谁啊？ (It should be 我们俩是谁跟谁啊？ but few people will say that)

The question you asked was at the intersection, somehow it shows you're right, not surprising  I just expounded my view.
Thanks for posting it!


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## cheshire

Thanks again!
 他在食堂吃的饭 could be a noun phrase, but not always, isn't it?


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## kastner

cheshire said:


> Thanks again!
> 他在食堂吃的饭 could be a noun phrase, but not always, isn't it?



Yes, it can also be as a noun phrase,
他在食堂吃的饭很可口。 The meal he had in cafeteria was delicious.

But,
他在食堂吃的饭。 It is in cafeteria where he had lunch.


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## staquarius

i think  "他在四川大学学的是不是汉语?"will be more used in daily talking.


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## chvfire1610

I think "学不学习" is better than "学习不学习"


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## kastner

chvfire1610 said:


> I think "学不学习" is better than "学习不学习"



It's not you think. Actually, in all textbooks, it is taught using AB不AB, but native speakers know (and will tend) to say A不AB, which sounds more pleasant to hear.
Honestly, I prefer 學不學習 as well 

So, There's no "better" thing, it's just a language feeling.
學習不學習 is quite ok (and is definitely correct).


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## huomenta

他在四川大学学习不学习汉语?

we don't say it like that.

we say it like "kastner "'s talk..

and 没想到有那么差多哪  we say like  没想到差别那么大!


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