# Persian: Names/ naming conventions



## Daffodil100

Hello,

Do Iranians put first name before surname?
مجید شیرازی
مجید=first name?

The order of the name is correct?

First name +father name +grandfather name +family name
(from left to right)
Thank you!


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## sb70012

Hello again my dearest friend Daffodil100, I hope you are fine.

Yes it's correct.   

مجید شیرازی   =    Majid Shirazi   

I think in all languages first name comes first and lanst name (surname) comes later.


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much for your help. 

Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans put first name after family name. 

i.g. Xi Jinping is the President of China. Xi is his family name, and Jinping is the first name.


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## sb70012

Wow how amazing. Thanks for that, I didn't know it.


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## Daffodil100

sb70012 said:


> Wow how amazing. Thanks for that, I didn't know it.


You're very welcome too.


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## Aryamp

Daffodil100 said:
			
		

> The order of the name is correct?
> 
> First name +father name +grandfather name +family name




In Iran we don't use father's name or grandfather's name (that's arabic culture),  we only have "first name" + " last name/family name"  , that's all, not even a middle name.


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## Qureshpor

Aryamp said:


> In Iran we don't use father's name or grandfather's name (that's arabic culture),  we only have "first name" + " last name/family name"  , that's all, not even a middle name.


Unless of course there are Iranian Arabs but we know what you mean.


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## mannoushka

Qureshpor said:


> Unless of course there are Iranian Arabs but we know what you mean.



As Aryamp says, an Iranian does not carry his/her father's first name as a tag at the end of his/her own name, even though all the different ID documents we use, of which, I may point out, we have many, being evidently obsessed with being identified correctly and beyond a shadow of a doubt, do indeed mention the name of the father. The normal way of being addressed, nevertheless, is by the first or given name in an informal setting, by the surname (usually following _Aaghaaye_ for Mr. or _Khaanome _for Ms.) in all other situations. I doubt if Iranian Arabs or other ethnic peoples living in Iran do otherwise, for the simple reason that the identification documents every citizen has to have and use frequently do dictate to all of us the way we are to be known to others and addressed by them, but of course there may be different ways of being named among some of them within their communities that I do not know about.


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## Daffodil100

Thank you, everyone.




Aryamp said:


> In Iran we don't use father's name or grandfather's name (that's arabic culture), we only have "first name" + " last name/family name" , that's all, not even a middle name.
> 
> [/FONT][/COLOR]


i

It was introduced in a Chinese article about Iranian customs and taboos. It is outrageous that some persons spinned tales online if they are ignorant about Iran.


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## fdb

No one seems to have mentioned that in (modern) Persian the given name and the surname are connected by the ezāfe particle, e.g. in Majid-e Shirāzi.

As for this talk about “Persian” vs. “Arabic” culture: both among the Persians and among the Arabs family names were not used until the very recent past (early 20th century). In early New Persian people used the ezāfe particle to indicate the name of a person’s father and grandfather, e.g. the poet Masʻud-e Saʻd-e Salmān (M., son of S., son of S.). This usage went out in about the 13th century. More commonly, filiation was indicated with the Arabic word for “son”, e.g. Masʻud ebn-e Saʻd ebn-e Salmān. This is the normal usage in pre-modern Persian.


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## Treaty

fdb said:


> No one seems to have mentioned that in (modern)  Persian the given name and the surname are connected by the ezāfe  particle, e.g. in Majid-e Shirāzi.



That's true but mainly for names ending with consonants. In both  Persian and Arabic it was also common to put the place of origin,  clan/tribe or profession after the first name (and the father's name) in old days.

Anyway, the current Iranian naming is as follows:
1. hereditary title (e.g. _seyed_) which is only eligible for descendants of Prophet. It is officially considered as a part of the first name.
2. first name, either simple like _Ali_ or compound like _Ali-Reza_
3. one to three last names which usually indicates the family founder's name, clan, origin, profession, etc. 

Here is the full name of an Iranian poet (pen-named Shahryar): Seyed Mohammad-hossein _[e]_ Behjat _[e]_ Tabrizi


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## Daffodil100

fdb said:


> No one seems to have mentioned that in (modern) Persian the given name and the surname are connected by the ezāfe particle, e.g. in Majid-e Shirāzi.
> 
> As for this talk about “Persian” vs. “Arabic” culture: both among the Persians and among the Arabs family names were not used until the very recent past (early 20th century). In early New Persian people used the ezāfe particle to indicate the name of a person’s father and grandfather, e.g. the poet Masʻud-e Saʻd-e Salmān (M., son of S., son of S.). This usage went out in about the 13th century. More commonly, filiation was indicated with the Arabic word for “son”, e.g. Masʻud ebn-e Saʻd ebn-e Salmān. This is the normal usage in pre-modern Persian.



Thank you very much for the informative post. I listened to my audio file, and did found e was  attached to the given name.

And it is interesting to know a little  about the history of Iranian family names. 

How do people define Modern Iran? After the revolution of Bahaman? Or when?


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## Daffodil100

Many thanks, Treaty.



> That's true but mainly for names ending with consonants. In both  Persian and Arabic it was also common to put the place of origin,  clan/tribe or profession after the first name (and the father's name) in old days.



Is ezafee pronounced ye if the given name ended with a vowel?





> 3. one to three last names which usually indicates the family founder's name, clan, origin, profession, etc.



I don't understand the words I highlighted in red. Could you rephrase or illustrate it?


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## Treaty

Daffodil100 said:


> How do people define Modern Iran? After the revolution of Bahaman? Or when



Modern Iran was triggered in early 1900s by the Constitutional Revolution. However, it was after 1925 when the modernised administration of the country started. The Islamic Revolution (Bahman) happened in 1979.



Daffodil100 said:


> Many thanks, Treaty.
> Is ezafee pronounced ye if the given name ended with a vowel?



No. For many of them we usually put nothing between the first name and family name.



Daffodil100 said:


> I don't understand the words I highlighted in red. Could you rephrase or illustrate it?



I should have written *a surname with one to three parts*. For choosing a surname, there are many options available: name of father or a famous ancestor, profession, city and certain characteristics. A person may choose two or three options as parts of the surname (e.g. to avoid the family name being too casual). Officially, they are considered as one surname but people may use them individually. This surname will be inherited by the future generation despite that the connection (to the city or profession) may have been lost.


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much for helping me out, Treaty. It is very interesting to learn all of these. 

Have a good one.


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## qrosh

Persian language is a right to left language and You must identify the names of family...


complete Persian poems in Qrosh site ::: qrosh.com/pe


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## mannoushka

INTERESTING: I've just been informed by an Iranian person of Arab ethnic origin that among Arab (extended) families it is customary to address a head of the nuclear family by the name of the eldest child. Naming an adult in this way is a sign of showing them respect.

Example: An Arab man with the given name Fareed, father to a boy named Omar, would not be addressed informally as Fareed; he would be called 'ABU OMAR'.


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## Treaty

mannoushka said:


> INTERESTING: I've just been informed by an Iranian person of Arab ethnic origin that among Arab (extended) families it is customary to address a head of the nuclear family by the name of the eldest child. Naming an adult in this way is a sign of showing them respect.
> 
> Example: An Arab man with the given name Fareed, father to a boy named Omar, would not be addressed informally as Fareed; he would be called 'ABU OMAR'.



What about the mother, is she called Omm e Omar?


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## darush

fdb said:


> No one seems to have mentioned that in (modern) Persian the given name and the surname are connected by the ezāfe particle, e.g. in Majid-e Shirāzi...


Good Information as ever, thanks.

More details at:
_http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2511671 post#5_


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## mannoushka

Treaty said:


> What about the mother, is she called Omm e Omar?



I have not been expressly informed of such a phenomenon; however, what you suggest does seem very likely. Incidentally, I forgot to mention before that should an Arab gentleman be father to a daughter (or daughters) only, then he will be called by the name of his (eldest) daughter, eg. Abu Ghamar, while a childless gentleman is invariably addressed as Abu Aheel. What the word 'aheel' acutally signifies, my source did not know, and neither do I, sadly.


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