# in order to (do) / pour ce faire



## white_ray

Hello,
What is the Arabic equivalent for “in order to (do this)…” / “pour ce faire”?
Thank you for your help!
wr


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## clevermizo

There are different ways to render this, among them حتّى and لكي  followed by الفعل المضارع المنصوب.


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## white_ray

Thanks Clevermizo.
I just posted my phrase on another thread as I needed correction regarding the word ‘relatives’.
I had chosen *لِكَي* , is the sentence correct?​*تَدْرُسُ الْلُغَة الْعَرَبية لِكَي تَفْهَمَ قَرينْها*
Many thanks for your help!! 
wr​


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## xebonyx

اهلاً
على حد علمي الكلمة المقابلة 
"لكي" 
أو يمكنك أن تستخدم "ل"(لام التعليل

You can use either "لكي" or "ل", but the natives can expand on this.


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## white_ray

What if I need «“in order to (do this)…” / “pour ce faire” in the beginning of a sentence?
Example: In order to do (learn Arabic) this the girl needs to take classes.
Thanks again.
wr


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## xebonyx

I would say:
لكي تعلم اللغة العربية يجب على هذه البنت أن تأخذ الصفوف فيها
But I'm sure there are better suggestions.


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## white_ray

Thanks for that suggestion Xebonyx. 
I guess I’d really need to replace “the Arabic language” though... 
=> maybe “in order to learn it”…
Perhaps it would be easier to replace this by *“**إذا**”* ?
wr


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## xebonyx

white_ray said:


> Thanks for that suggestion Xebonyx.
> I guess I’d really need to replace “the Arabic language” though...
> => maybe “in order to learn it”…
> Perhaps it would be easier to replace this by *“**إذا**”* ?
> wr


Sure 

As for “إذا”, it's only a conditional particle meaning "if" (as in If-then statements). All you would have to do is replace the word Arabic with the feminine suffix "ها" (since the word "Arabic" is feminine). But somehow it must be made clear that Arabic was being referred to at an earlier point. (تعلمها)


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## white_ray

xebonyx said:


> Sure
> 
> As for “إذا”, it's only a conditional particle meaning "if" (as in If-then statements). All you would have to do is replace the word Arabic with the feminine suffix "ها" (since the word "Arabic" is feminine). But somehow it must be made clear that Arabic was being referred to at an earlier point.


I see.
I thought* إذا* was also an adverb that meant “thus, therefore, hence…”?
Oh, I just realise that maybe I want *إذًا* in fact? 
Sorry, I’m getting all mixed up here!! 
wr


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## xebonyx

white_ray said:


> I see.
> I thought* إذا* was also an adverb that meant “thus, therefore, hence…”?
> Oh, I just realise that maybe I want *إذًا* in fact?
> Sorry, I’m getting all mixed up here!!
> wr


 
Nah, no worries. It's only a matter of time before the natives school me . But until then, I'll continue with my analysis:

إذا (or "إذَنْ") can mean "thus, therefore"..you're right. 
But it's most common usage --from what I understand-- is "if". 

Also, the word "therefore" is not synonymous with "in order to". So it wouldn't make sense as a replacement to convey that meaning.


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## white_ray

I understand; I'll try to arrange my phrase!
Thank you so much for your help!! 
wr


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## suma

xebonyx said:


> I would say:
> لكي تعلم اللغة العربية يجب على هذا البنت أن تأخذ الصفوف فيها
> But I'm sure there are better suggestions.


 
Xebonyx I think your translation is much to idiomatic, too much of a word-for-word match with the English.

For one thing Sufoof means classrooms, class grades (levels) and not the course of study. Some will disagree with me on this, but using Sufoof like this seems more of a borrowing from modern English. I could be wrong. Also note the gender agreement error.


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## xebonyx

suma said:


> Xebonyx I think your translation is much to idiomatic, too much of a word-for-word match with the English.
> 
> For one thing Sufoof means classrooms, class grades (levels) and not the course of study. Some will disagree with me on this, but using Sufoof like this seems more of a borrowing from modern English. I could be wrong.


 
What would you suggest? حصص؟ دروس؟
You should put in your translation of the sentence.



> Also note the gender agreement error.


 
Oops, thanks. Fixed!


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## white_ray

Any of these then?
*حِصَّةٌ دِرَاسِيَّة** , **مُحَاضَرَة*
Thank you both very much! 
Wr


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## cherine

xebonyx said:


> إذا (or "إذَنْ") can mean "thus, therefore"..you're right.
> But it's most common usage --from what I understand-- is "if".



There's a difference between idhan إذن/إذاً (thus, therefore...) and idhaa إذا (if).


suma said:


> For one thing Sufoof means classrooms, class grades (levels) and not the course of study. Some will disagree with me on this, but using Sufoof like this seems more of a borrowing from modern English. I could be wrong.


No, you're not wrong Suma. We don't translate "taking classes" literally into Arabic, it doesn't sound correct.
We say: يدرس، يأخذ دروس، يلتحق بدورة دراسية .....



white_ray said:


> Any of these then?
> *حِصَّةٌ دِرَاسِيَّة** , **مُحَاضَرَة*
> Thank you both very much!
> Wr


They're correct. But if you want to say: 


> In order to do (learn Arabic) this the girl needs to take classes


you can say:
لكي تتعلم العربية، عليها الالتحاق بإحدى الدورات الدراسية
There can be better phrasing, of course, but this is what I could think of for the moment.


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## xebonyx

cherine said:


> [/color]
> There's a difference between idhan إذن/إذاً (thus, therefore...) and idhaa إذا (if).



Ah, I forgot there's a tanween fatha on that one, whereas the other is simply "if". Thanks, cherine!


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## cherine

You're welcome.


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## white_ray

Thank you all so much.
I missed you cherine! 
wr


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi guys,

could you tell me please if the following sentence would be correct usage of "_in order to_" at the beginning of a sentence?

*In order to* preserve the beautiful gardens the gardeners have to hunt the moles every day
لكي يحفظ الحدائق جميلة على النُستانِيون مطاردة الخُلْد كل اليوم

Aurélien


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## analeeh

I think لكي يحفظوا, because it's 'in order [that they are able] to preserve. Also الحدائق الجميلة (to translate English 'the beautiful gardens'), and على البستانيين because على is a preposition and takes majruur. Also possibly you want اصطياد instead of مطاردة, which means 'pursue' not 'hunt' - but مطاردة works OK I think? and maybe اصطياد is narrower in semantics than 'hunt' in English. It's also _bustaani_ not _nustaani_.

If you want 'keep the gardens beautiful', you'll want: لكي يحاقظوا على جمال الحدائق.


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi,

I agree with you with all the things you said except 
_ لكي يحفظوا, because it's 'in order [that they are able] to preserve_

or may be I did not understand well...
Are you sure we must make the agreement with the subject (the gardeners) ?

Aurélien


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