# frollini arricchiti



## Sabreena

I am translating the following sentence into English: "L'azienda è recentemente entrata nel settore della pasticceria con una nuova linea di frollini arricchiti". Arricchitti with the meaning of "with chocolate chips or else". My attempt is "The company has recently entered the confectionery sector with its new line of enriched shortbreads". Enriched is my problem here. Can someone kindly tell me if "enriched" is the right word?
Thank you very much.


----------



## chipulukusu

Ciao_, enriched flavor _è una dicitura comune sulle scatole di biscotti, paste ed altre prelibatezze, quindi presumo che _enriched_ non sia fuori luogo in questo contesto, ma meglio aspettare i medrelingua


----------



## AlabamaBoy

My guess is that people are having trouble with a satisfying answer. Enriched is often used to describe vitamins or minerals added to the flour. If it were an  ice cream cone, all of the added confections would be called "toppings."  For something blended into the product like bits of fruit or chocolate, a  generic term does not come to mind.  We call them "chocolate chip cookies", "shortbread with strawberry bits" or something else that is specific for the product. Maybe "garnished with bits of fruit, chocolate, or other confections."


----------



## Sabreena

I thank you both for your help, grazie mille. "The company has recently entered the confectionery sector with its new line of shortbreads garnished with bits of fruit and chocolate chips" could be the final translation. I do not like "garnish" much but it seems to fit well. I'll go for it. Thanks again.


----------



## italtrav

Ciao Sabreena

"Garnished" really isn't necessary, if you'd rather do without.

"...with fruit and chocolate chips added"
"..with fruit and chocolate chips"


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Sabreena said:


> I am translating the following sentence into English: "L'azienda è recentemente entrata nel settore della pasticceria con una nuova linea di frollini arricchiti". Arricchitti with the meaning of "with chocolate chips or else". My attempt is "The company has recently entered the confectionery sector with its new line of enriched *shortbreads*". Enriched is my problem here. Can someone kindly tell me if "enriched" is the right word?
> Thank you very much.



Shortbread (which I'm not even too sure is the correct translation) is uncountable so it doesn't take the plural.


----------



## italtrav

Shortbread is a good translation for frollini. Since the company in question seems to be making various kinds of shortbread, "shortbreads" would be alright here, although "a new line of shortbread cookies" might be an improvement.


----------



## Tristano

italtrav said:


> Shortbread is a good translation for frollini. Since the company in question seems to be making various kinds of shortbread, "shortbreads" would be alright here, although "a new line of shortbread cookies" might be an improvement.



I would definitely use "shortbread cookies" here. 
As described above, "enriched" gives a rather different meaning, as it immediately brings vitamins and minerals to mind.  "Garnished" also falls short, in my opinion. It implies that the chips and fruit are somehow sprinkled on top, rather than being part of the cookie. I think the unglamorous "with" might be the best choice here.


----------



## london calling

I think we have an AE/BE split here. _Shortbread_ to me is something very specific (Scottish shortbread).  The _frollini_ I have with my cappuccino in the morning are not shortbread as I understand it. I'd call them _butter biscuits_. 

I agree that _garnished/topped/enriched _don't work here. "With" is better, but of course you have to specify with what (with chocolate chips, for example). I think in the end we normally talk about lemon butter buscuits, chocolate chip butter biscuits, cinnamon spice butter biscuits, jam-filled butter biscuits, etc. etc., as people have already said.

Morale della favola, Sab: non esiste una sola parola in inglese per esprimere l'idea di un biscotto arricchito: devi dire per forza con che cosa viene arricchito.


----------



## giovannino

I know it's off topic but just in order to avoid any confusion: shouldn't "pasticceria" be translated as "bakery products" or something similar in this context? As far as I know, "confectionery" is only used for sweets, chocolate etc, not for biscuits/cookies:
" The term does not generally apply to cakes, biscuits, or puddings which require cutlery to consume, although exceptions such as petits fours or meringues exist" (Wikipedia)


----------



## Paulfromitaly

london calling said:


> I think we have an AE/BE split here. _Shortbread_ to me is something very specific (Scottish shortbread).  The _frollini_ I have with my cappuccino in the morning are not shortbread as I understand it. I'd call them _butter biscuits_.



That's exactly my point. I have eaten tons of shortbread in the UK and frollini have nothing to do with shortbread, being not even remotely as buttery and tasty as shortbread.
Then if we want to pass off frollini as shortbread to fool foreigners into believing they are the same thing, that's misleading advertising.


----------



## london calling

Paulfromitaly said:


> That's exactly my point. I have eaten tons of shortbread in the UK and frollini have nothing to do with shortbread, being not even remotely as buttery and tasty as shortbread.
> Then if we want to pass off frollini as shortbread to fool foreigners into believing they are the same thing, that's what marketing is.


What I meant was that I think_ shortbread_ in the US has a broader meaning. If these biscuits are to be marketed and sold in the UK it would be a mistake to call them shortbread: as you say, people would think you were trying to fool them.

PS. Correct, Giovannino. _Confectionery_  is also misleading.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

london calling said:


> What I meant was that I think_ shortbread_ in the US has a broader meaning. If these biscuits are to be marketed and sold in the UK it would be a mistake to call them shortbread: as you say, people would think you were trying to fool them.



Well, Ms Sabreena didn't say these frollini are only for the US market so I stand by my initial point: shortbread is uncountable and has nothing to do with frollini


----------



## AlabamaBoy

I'd say that we know what true Scotts shortbread is, but we sometimes are colloquial and call butter cookies "shortbread" even though it's like calling moonshine "whiskey." Afterall, I have known people to pass off cottage  cheese as "ricotta."


----------



## Paulfromitaly

AlabamaBoy said:


> I'd say that we know what true Scotts shortbread is, but we sometimes are colloquial and call butter cookies "shortbread" even though it's like calling moonshine "whiskey." Afterall, I have known people to pass off cottage  cheese as "ricotta."



Well, frollini are not even half as buttery as butter cookies then 
I've never tried American shortbread so I have no idea how tasty and buttery it is.


----------



## Willower

We have plain biscuits and fancy biscuits, which are biscuits that have decoration or added ingredients, like chocolate. So, "_a new line of fancy biscuits"_ It doesn't work with shortbread, though!


----------



## london calling

AlabamaBoy said:


> I'd say that we know what true Scotts shortbread is, but we sometimes are colloquial and call butter cookies "shortbread" even though it's like calling moonshine "whiskey."


Aha, so it isn't really an AE/BE split!

_Butter biscuits/cookies_ they are, then.

PS. Willower, yes, _fancy butter biscuits/cookies_ might work. It's as vague as the original Italian description. My only problem is that sometimes _fancy_ can be derogatory, although I suppose in this context it would not be perceived as such.


----------



## Willower

I don't think it's derogatory applied to biscuits, but it's a bit old fashioned - it goes with doilies!


----------



## italtrav

My understanding is that as a category of pastry, _frollini_ are most characteristically made of _pasta frolla_, which is a friable dough made from flour, sugar and butter; in this regard they are analogous to and reasonably equated to shortbread. That said, not all _frollini_ are made with butter, or they are crispy cookies made with much less butter than crumbly Scottish shortbread, and many of those might be better named sugar cookies in AE.


----------



## chipulukusu

I'm sorry if I go back to the same path, but I think what makes _frollini_ not easily comparable with any British biscuit is the amount of butter, which is incomparably less in the case of _frollini. _Italian biscuits allow for more tasty additions than british ones, because the latter are already very tasty by themselves. 
When we want to indulge in butter delicacies we usually buy danish biscuits, but these are for "special" occasion, not for every day use.
I may be wrong, but I think it is the Italian habit of plunging biscuits in the milk or sometimes in the tea that makes _frollini _different from the typical British _tea biscuits.

EDIT: _I've just read italtrav's post and I can see that we apparently agree on the point though from different points of observation


----------



## london calling

italtrav said:


> My understanding is that as a category of pastry, _frollini_ are most characteristically made of _pasta frolla_, which is a friable dough made from flour, sugar and butter; in this regard they are analogous to and reasonably equated to shortbread.


Not for the Brits they aren't. I don't like having to press the point, but if you tried to sell _frollini_ as shortbread in the UK you'd be done for false advertising. Apart from the fact that nobody would buy them again, having bought them thinking they were shortbread and finding out they weren't. I stick by _butter biscuits/cookies_.

PS Chip. A tea biscuit is not a _frollino_, quite so. _Oro S***a_ is a tea biscuit. But why do you think we don't dunk biscuits? We do (any sort of biscuit, not only tea biscuits) , but not in polite company : as a child I certainly was not allowed (by my mother)  to dunk biscuits anywhere other than at home and even then she frowned upon it (still does, as a matter of fact).


----------



## chipulukusu

Sorry London, it is just my superficial knowledge of British habits, I'm afraid... I try to keep my habits when I'm in the Uk, apart from unsmoked bacon, salad dressings and meat sauces that I can find in such an astonishing and appetizing variety compared to Italy. But everything has to do with (professional) _patisserie_ in England, I find it pretty superior.
I suspected that your tea biscuits were similar to ours after all, but I was not sure.
Thank you for the verb _dunk_ I was struggling to find the right word


----------



## Willower

From the information about the recipes, cookies sounds a more appropriate translation than shortbread or biscuits (all of which can be, and often are, dunked!) On reflection, I think the modern version of _fancy biscuits_ would be something like _speciality cookies.


_By the way, although shortbread, like bread, is a non-count noun, it can take a plural in certain circumstances - _Fortnum and Mason sell speciality breads/shortbreads _for example. Freeborn (1995) *A Coursebook in English Grammar* gives a similar example in relation to tea, another non-count non. _I need to buy some tea/ I've bought a couple of different teas to try out._


----------



## italtrav

london calling said:


> Not for the Brits they aren't. I don't like having to press the point, but if you tried to sell _frollini_ as shortbread in the UK you'd be done for false advertising. Apart from the fact that nobody would buy them again, having bought them thinking they were shortbread and finding out they weren't. I stick by _butter biscuits/cookies_.
> 
> PS Chip. A tea biscuit is not a _frollino_, quite so.



Probably some formulation like this is needed: all shortbread cookies are _frollini_ but not all _frollini_ are shortbread. However, said this way, what I think is brought out is the fact that shortcrust pastry is a general category of crumbly dough into which solid fat has been cut, while at the same time there are particular cookies/biscuits, traditionally made with butter, that are called shortbread in Scotland and England, and these specific kinds of shortbread cookies have, for many, become the definitive form of shortbread. 

However, as a counter, we have in America a popular supermarket cookie, Lorna Doone, which, for generations, has been marketed as shortbread, but which is markedly crisper than Scottish shortbread and contains not a drop of butter. And we also have Italian _frollini_ formulations that don't use butter, either.

For translation purposes, e.g. for a menu or cookbook, we would have to choose between shortbread or butter cookie, either of which stands a good chance of being correct. In the best case, I think one would need to know the recipe for and character of the item in question. The determining factors, it seems to me, would be the degree of friability and what fat is present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorna_Doone_(cookie)


----------



## london calling

I have never come across any _frollini _which did not have butter in them, to be honest with you. The word _frollino _itself is directly linked to _pasta frolla_ (shortcrust pastry), which is made with butter. Here's what Wiki says:


*Frollini o paste di frolla*

​​Sono i biscotti di pasta frolla. Hanno un impasto di farina, burro, zucchero e uova e la presenza di burro è notevole; sono più recenti dei primi e più deperibili.

In any case , not all _frollini_ are shortbread, as you say. Therefore, getting back to the original sentence, we cannot call _frollini_ shortbread.

PS Willower, I think _speciality_ is better than _fancy_, you're right.


----------



## chipulukusu

I think there is also a cultural difference here, London... a quantity of butter that is massive for a mediterranean person maybe insignificant for a British person!
I'm joking of course

EDIT: to tell the truth, if I search for f_rollini _in Google Images, my cholesterol level skyrockets immediately, so you must be right


----------



## Tegs

AlabamaBoy said:


> I have known people to pass off cottage  cheese as "ricotta."


 Crazy Americans  

I'd be highly suspicious of any product claiming to be "shortbread" and not hailing from the UK or Ireland. _Speciality biscuits_ seems like a good solution - it pretty much covers any biscuits we are unfamiliar with 

Chip - "plunging biscuits" is a fabulous synonym for "dunk". I may adopt it


----------



## chipulukusu

Tegs said:


> Chip - "plunging biscuits" is a fabulous synonym for "dunk". I may adopt it



I imagine you are advising me to NOT use it, in a polite manner...


----------



## italtrav

london calling said:


> I have never come across any _frollini _which did not have butter in them, to be honest with you. The word _frollino _itself is directly linked to _pasta frolla_ (shortcrust pastry), which is made with butter. Here's what Wiki says:
> 
> In any case , not all _frollini_ are shortbread, as you say. Therefore, getting back to the original sentence, we cannot call _frollini_ shortbread.



Here are two recipes from the initial page of results from a Google search on "ricetta frollini." The first does not use butter. The second uses the adjective "friabili," which must be to distinguish from other things also understood as _frollini_. In this case, the primary ingredients are sugar, butter, and flour in approximately the 1:2:3 ratio that is said to be the classic basis for shortbread. I would translate these as "shortbread cookies." So, I'll stick with my formulation above.

http://www.fornobattistini.it/ricette/biscotti-frollini-fatti-in-casa/

http://www.sweetie-home.it/index.php/2012/11/19/frollini-friabili/


----------



## london calling

Italtrav, to be honest I think you are missing the point.  We have to find an English term which translates _frollini _in such a way as it will be understood by all native speakers. _Shortbread _is a no-no and I just looked up _shortbread cookies_: it's what we Brits call _shortbread_. 

I would be extremely put out if I were to buy something called _shortbread _only to find out that it was a common-or-garden _frollino_ (butter biscuit/cookie).


----------



## italtrav

London

Possibly we are talking past each other. My point is that apparently we will, in fact, not have a single English term that translates _frollini_ for all native speakers, both because _frollini_ describes a range of items and because what qualifies as shortbread differs among those native speakers. So, on a case-by-case basis a translator might have to decide between shortbread, butter cookie, or sugar cookie. But it is clear to me that sometimes it will be proper to use shortbread as the translation:

http://www.buttalapasta.it/articolo/ricette-biscotti-i-frollini-scozzesi-o-short-breads/24255/
http://www.100piatti.it/index.php?/archives/463-Walkers,-i-celebri-frollini-scozzesi..html
http://www.venere.com/it/blog/specialita-scozzesi-edimburgo-8450/


----------



## Tegs

What happened to speciality biscuits/ cookies? Surely that is a solution that works for everyone?


----------



## london calling

Maybe  we are indeed talking past each other. 

I notice the OP has disappeared off the face of the earth, but I really don't think she was talking about shortbread as a Brit would understand it because she mentions frollini with 'chocolate chips': _shortbread_ never has chocolate chips (or anything else) in it.


Edit. Tegs, _frollini_ are a fairly specific kind of biscuit: I prefer _speciality butter biscuit_ (_speciality butter cookie_ in AE? I don't know if that makes sense to you, itraltrav) , myself.


----------



## Willower

london calling said:


> Maybe  we are indeed talking past each other.
> 
> I notice the OP has disappeared off the face of the earth, but I really don't think she was talking about shortbread as a Brit would understand it because she mentions frollini with 'chocolate chips': _shortbread_ never has chocolate chips (or anything else) in it.



I'm afraid shortbread these days DOES have chocolate chips in it, among other things!  http://www.walkersshortbread.com/onlineshop/Product.aspx?Category=102&Product=1609

But frollini still don't seem to me like shortbread....


----------



## london calling

Willower said:


> I'm afraid shortbread these days DOES have chocolate chips in it, among other things!  http://www.walkersshortbread.com/onlineshop/Product.aspx?Category=102&Product=1609
> 
> But frollini still don't seem to me like shortbread....


Oh dear, sorry for misleading you all!


----------



## Tristano

italtrav said:


> My understanding is that as a category of pastry, _frollini_ are most characteristically made of _pasta frolla_, which is a friable dough made from flour, sugar and butter; in this regard they are analogous to and reasonably equated to shortbread. That said, not all _frollini_ are made with butter, or they are crispy cookies made with much less butter than crumbly Scottish shortbread, and many of those might be better named sugar cookies in AE.



This is a quite a good observation. I must say that in AE, "butter biscuit" is not a term anyone would use at all. Butter cookie, yes, and shortbread, yes- and I have no idea how American shortbread compares with Scottish shortbread...


----------



## italtrav

Tristano said:


> I have no idea how American shortbread compares with Scottish shortbread...



Ask the BE crowd here at your own risk.


----------



## Nellieuk

No! definitely can't be talking about "shortbread" here! 
I would go with "cookies" and if they're posh cookies I'd consider gourmet cookies. Enriched sounds like there are added vitamins in them. 
If there just normal biscuits, I'd go with the simplistic description: "chocolate chip, peanut, berry, oat cookies"
off to eat a cookie now whoops meant a shortbread biscuit!


----------



## Tristano

Nellieuk said:


> No! definitely can't be talking about "shortbread" here!
> I would go with "cookies" and if they're posh cookies I'd consider gourmet cookies. Enriched sounds like there are added vitamins in them.
> If there just normal biscuits, I'd go with the simplistic description: "chocolate chip, peanut, berry, oat cookies"
> off to eat a cookie now whoops meant a shortbread biscuit!



I believe that in AE, shortbread is quite the usual translation for "pasta frolla", and aren't "frollini" made of "pasta frolla"?


----------



## Willower

The only solution will clearly be a taste test. Next time we go shopping perhaps we should all look for both shortbread and frollini in order to compare them


----------



## Nellieuk

Nellieuk said:


> No! definitely can't be talking about "shortbread" here!
> I would go with "cookies" and if they're posh cookies I'd consider gourmet cookies. Enriched sounds like there are added vitamins in them.
> If there just normal biscuits, I'd go with the simplistic description: "chocolate chip, peanut, berry, oat cookies"
> off to eat a cookie now whoops meant a shortbread biscuit!



I'm terribly sorry and do apologise to everyone for my cringeworthy "there" instead of "they're", and I solomly declare never to write on the forums again while singing the theme tune to Thomas the Tank Engine to my 3 year old son. It has devastating effects.


----------



## london calling

Willower said:


> The only solution will clearly be a taste test. Next time we go shopping perhaps we should all look for both shortbread and frollini in order to compare them


Already done, Willower. As I mentioned somewhere at the beginning of the thread I've lived here for over 30 years, I know exactly what a _frollino _tastes like: it is not shortbread as the Brits know it and, to be honest, it isn't usually what we (the Brits, I mean) call a _cookie_ either.

PS. Tristano, we've already been through the whole _pasta frolla_ thing. _Frollini_ do indeed derive from p_asta frolla_ (shortcrust pastry) but are not what we consider _ shortbread_ in BE.


----------



## Tristano

london calling said:


> Already done, Willower. As I mentioned somewhere at the beginning of the thread I've lived here for over 30 years, I know exactly what a _frollino _tastes like: it is not shortbread as the Brits know it and, to be honest, it isn't usually what we (the Brits, I mean) call a _cookie_ either.
> 
> PS. Tristano, we've already been through the whole _pasta frolla_ thing. _Frollini_ do indeed derive from p_asta frolla_ (shortcrust pastry) but are not what we consider _ shortbread_ in BE.



That's evident. I am speaking from the position of AE so it is doubtful we will agree on this.


----------



## chipulukusu

I've done my _field research _I discovered, only thank to this post, that my favourite cheap treat at my local grocery is "shortbread with a layer of caramel and chocolate topping" (tremendous intake of calories, I'm afraid). I also bought original Scottish shortbreads at the supermarket, and the outcome is this:

- I'd definitely dunk plain shortbreads in the milk or tea
- We have _frollini _in Italy that are very similar to _shortbreads_ but for less butter (and they are less tasty too), but they are not usually marketed as frollini (I think this is where my original mistake came from). The term _frollini_ is usually reserved for a "cheaper" line of biscuits, with less or no butter, but the "richer" ones are as much, if not more, _frollini_ than the former ones
- Italian _frollini _are in various degrees more _friable_ (si dice cosi?) than _shortbreads_ due to the minor quantity of butter used. _Shortbreads _have usually a more compact consistency and the more they are compact the more they are delicious.


----------



## london calling

Chip, no-one said you can't dunk shortbread (note the singular...) : you can (and I do)..

And yes, _friable_ as a word exists in English, but is uncommon, to say the least. _Crumbly_ is a better word for it.


----------



## chipulukusu

london calling said:


> Chip, no-one said you can't dunk shortbread (note the singular...) : you can (and I do)..
> 
> And yes, _friable_ as a word exists in English, but is uncommon, to say the least. _Crumbly_ is a better word for it.



Hi London, it was me to say that British don't dunk biscuits while Italians do, remember?

Thank you I'll remember _crumbly_ from the sound of the word! And thank you for the _s_ thing... In fact _shortbreads_ on packages is extremely rare, usually it's _shortbread cookies, shortbread fingers_ or just _shortbread_ as you said. What you can find as a plural form is _shorties. _I tried to be a bit serious in my research!


----------



## Willower

Thank you for undertaking and reporting back on this arduous study chipulusukusu  You've explained the difference between frollini and shortbread very clearly and I understand much better. I'm now off to look for some shortbread to dunk in my afternoon tea!


----------



## chipulukusu

You are welcome Willower, but I ensure you that my study was rewarding in itself!


----------

