# Active participle of "טס"



## Ihsiin

Can someone please tell me what is the active participle of "טס"?. That is to say, the translation of English "flying" or Arabic "طائر".
Thank you.


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## Flaminius

It's _tas_.  The root Ṭ-W-S conjugates in paʿal just like _lagur_, or "to live."


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## ks20495

Are you studying Biblical Hebrew?

The morphology of the verb form (i.e., its physical makeup) isn't different in Modern Hebrew, but it means something different.


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## Ihsiin

I'm not actually studying Hebrew (yet); I'm just interested. But my interest _is_ in Ancient Hebrew. What is the difference in meaning?

My desire on this issue is to translate the phrase "العصفور الطائر", "the flying bird". Would, then, "הצפור הטס" be correct? I fear I may have misunderstood.

(Thanks, by the way.)


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## ks20495

> What is the difference in meaning?


In Biblical/Ancient Hebrew, the form of the "active participle" (called the בינוני _beinoni_ in Hebrew) was similar in meaning to اسم الفاعل in Arabic. 

Around the time of Jesus, the _beinoni_ came to signify the present tense. The form is still used as an adjective and (less frequently) as a noun like اسم الفاعل. However, its primary function in Hebrew (and what most people call it) is the present tense. 



> My desire on this issue is to translate the phrase "العصفور الطائر",  "the flying bird". Would, then, "הצפור הטס" be correct? I fear I may  have misunderstood.


Like I just said, the _beinoni_ can still be used as an adjective -- i.e., like "flying" or "طائر". So, your logic is completely correct. There are two issues though: First of all, the gender of ציפור is irregular: Despite its appearance, it is feminine. Also, we generally use the verb טס to refer to airplanes flying. We use the verb עף to refer the birds flying. So, the correct form would be "הציפור העפה".

I also have to note that - in this specific case - there is a an adjective that is usually used for "flying". It is "מעופף". (It's the _beinoni_ of the verb עופף. Even though עופף as a verb is relatively uncommon, מעופף as an adjective is widely used. Go figure...) SO, the most correct and idiomatic translation is: "הציפור המעופפת".


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## Ihsiin

Thanks very much.

Of course, aeroplanes are a modern phenomenon. Classically would "טס" and "עף" have been equivalent, or would there have been a semantic distinction. Perhaps there is a relationship to Arabic "عاف", "to leave".

Also, I notice you've spelt צפור with a yod (ציפור). Is this a common spelling convention? I assume צפור isn't wrong, otherwise you'd have corrected me.


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## ks20495

> Of course, aeroplanes are a modern phenomenon. Classically would "טס" and "עף" have been equivalent, or would there have been a semantic distinction. Perhaps there is a relationship to Arabic "عاف", "to leave".



I'm not sure...But, the word טס is not modern. So, there must have been some sort of semantic distinction between the two verbs. 



> Also, I notice you've spelt צפור with a yod (ציפור). Is this a common spelling convention? I assume צפור isn't wrong, otherwise you'd have corrected me.



When we write without _niqqud_ (تشكيل\حركات), we write many more of the vowels. As you probably know, in Hebrew, there is no phonetic distinction between long and short vowels. So, when I write in the _yod_, I'm not indicating a change in pronunciation. Rather, I'm just indicating that there is an _ vowel in a place where (for whatever reason) it seems ambiguous to a native speaker. (There are rules for when to write the "long vowel letter" (י or ו) in texts without niqqud. But, generally, people just insert them wherever they feel like they logically belong.)_


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## Ihsiin

Alright. Thanks once again.


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## origumi

The biblical root is ט-ו-שׂ as demonstrated in Job 9:26.

Similarity to טוס tavas = peacock is apparently incidental. Tavas is borrowed from Greek taos.

העוף הטס would be a good translation, old fashioned though.

Modern translation depens on the context.


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