# à toutes fins utiles



## mariarier

Que veut dire “ à toutes fins utiles”?

Merci !


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## Lezert

au cas où ça puisse servir à quelque chose
au cas où ça puisse  être utile
in case that may be usefull?


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## edwingill

for whatever purpose it may serve


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## Folavril

Any ideas how to translate this awful expression?!!


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## geostan

to all intents and purposes

Cheers!


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## Missrapunzel

Hello 

I would like to know if the french expression "_*à toutes fins utiles*_" could be translated by "_*for all useful purposes*_" in english. 
This expression is used at the beginning of an email, announcing information that may be relevant/useful to someone in the future. 

Thanks for any advice! [...]


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## bloomiegirl

"For all useful purposes" does not sound right to my American ears.

But what would we say? Maybe "For future reference" - but this isn't very compelling. 

If you really want people to keep it, then "Please keep this information for future reference" would be better.

Maybe someone else will have even better ideas.


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## FAC13

I wouldn't expect to see "for all useful purposes".
I'm not certain of the exact meaning from your description, but here are some ways I might start an email, announcing information that may be relevant/useful to someone in the future: -

For information ...
For future reference ...
You may be interested to know ...
To whom it may concern ...
You may wish to keep in mind that ...

Do any of those help?

Edit: My post crossed with bloomiegirl's, sorry.


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## le chat noir

"To whom it may concern" seems pretty good. Not quite the same but pretty close. It lacks a bit the usefulness.

Would "To whom it may prove useful to" not sound too ugly? Any leads along that line?

EDIT: corrected mistake. Thanks, FAC13


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## Missrapunzel

le chat noir said:


> "To whom it may concern" seems pretty good. Not quite the same but pretty close. It lacks a bit the usefulness.
> 
> Would "To whom it may prove useful to" not sound too ugly? Any leads along that line?


Thanks a lot for the suggestions!! 
I really like "_to whom it may prove useful_"..... can a native please advise on the suitability? 

Otherwise, I think I'll pick "_You may be interested to know..._ "


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## FAC13

le chat noir said:


> Would "To whom it may prove useful to" not sound too ugly?


 
Yes that would be good too - it isn't a set phrase in the way that "to whom it may concern" is though.

Edit: ... but you need to remove one of the "to"s - "To whom it may prove useful."


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## Mr E

For future reference...

The very fact that it is in an email implies that information is *intended to be read and used.* 

Why translate it at all???


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## Wunibald

I would say the nearest equivalent expression in English (in most contexts I can think of) would be: _For your information_


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## Missrapunzel

Thanks everyone! Then I will use "to whom it may prove useful". 





Mr E said:


> The very fact that it is in an email implies that information is *intended to be read and used.*
> 
> Why translate it at all???


Well, this information will be used only by the people who are concerned by it and who it will be useful to.  Not necessarily all of the receivers. 
Thanks a lot!


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## Camis12

hello,  bringing this one back to life as I am having great difficulty translating this expression in the following context:

_Enfin, à toutes fins utiles, vous pouvez également contacter notre conseil, le Cabinet X_

This appears at the end of a letter.  Any ideas?  I know people are going to suggest taking it out entirely, but the author of the letter is a fussy customer, and he won't like it!

Thank you


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## lachoseblonde

My belated two cents:

Generally, "in case it may be of use" or "in case it may prove useful".

In a more informal context, "for whatever it's worth" will often fit.


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## Nicomon

And my even more belated two sent. 

Trouvé sur des sites bilingues (canadiens): _for your convenience_

Comme dans ces exemples :


> *À toutes fins utiles*, vous trouverez ci-joint un formulaire de soumission.
> A copy of the Submission Form has been attached *for your convenience*.
> 
> These series terminate in 1930, but are repeated here *for your convenience*.
> Ces séries s'arrêtent à 1931, mais elles sont reprises ici *à toutes fins utiles*.


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## Novanas

Hello, Folks!  There's a number of threads on this forum dealing with the above expression.  It seems to be one that gives us English-speakers trouble.  At any rate, I thought I'd start a new thread because my context seems to be a bit different, and I didn't want to confuse things.

This comes from the novel _Tempo di Roma_ by Alexis Curvers.  The narrator has been put in police custody in Rome (although he hasn't done anything wrong and is eventually released) and he says this:

Ce qu'il y a de plus vrai dans cette prison qui n'en est pas une, ce sont les mendiants qu'on y ramène chaque soir en escouade après les avoir cueillis au hasard, dans la proportion d'un sur mille, en différents quartiers de Rome. . .On les arrête *à toutes fins utiles* sous n'importe quel prétexte, la mendicité, Dieu merci, n'étant pas interdite en Italie.  Ils cessent donc d'être de vrais mendiants pour devenir comme moi de faux inculpés. . .

It's clear from the context that the police here are just going through the motions, rounding up a few undesirables to get them off the street, even though they have no right to do so.

I think the most appropriate meaning of "à toutes fins utiles" that I've found on other threads is "au cas où ça puisse servir à qqch.", "for whatever purpose it may serve."  Perhaps in this case, we might interpret it as "for all the good it will do"?  I've also considered, "just to be seen to be doing something," but I think that may be wandering too far from the sense of the expression.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome here.  Many thanks.


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## Aistriúchán

for/to all intents and purposes


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## Novanas

Thanks, Aistriuchan.  I think your suggestion might work in certain contexts, but I'm not sure about this one: "They arrest them, for all intents and purposes, on any pretext at all. . ."?


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## Aistriúchán

Ah maybe - They arrest them, practically speaking (necessarily, essentially)


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## LART01

Hi
My try=

They are put under arrest as a means to an end whatever pretext works....


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## DaiSmallcoal

"au cas où ça puisse servir à qqch.", "for whatever purpose it may serve."

"Perhaps in this case, we might interpret it as     "f*or all the good it will do*"?""

I would agree with this as the nearest 'rendition' of the meaning here 

and I can't think of a better one. Thanks  for raising a question that's been bothering me !


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## Novanas

Many thanks to all of you for your replies, which I'm still considering.

LARTO1, your suggestion "as a means to an end" seems to me to mean more or less, "wanting to take some sort of action".  Is that the way you understand it?  Or have I misunderstood?


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## Elle Paris

The police wants to get them off the streets and out of people's hair, so they use any excuse to arrest them that will work=that will get them off the street... so
"as a means to an end/a method to reach the goal" seems just fine, just missing punctuation perhaps:

They are put under arrest as a means to an end; whatever pretext works....


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## Punky Zoé

Hi Seneca !

"À toutes fins utiles", here, means more or less, 'they do not know for what purpose'. There is no reason for arresting beggars, except that they think they have to do it (even if begging isn't reprehensible.
That said, does 'for whatever purpose it may serve', in an ironically use, work?

"À toutes fins utiles" est utilisée dans le domaine du droit et le domaine administratif. Par exemple quand une autorité a connaissance d'un fait qu'elle n'a pas compétence à traiter, mais qu'elle pense utile à une autre autorité, elle la lui transmet "à toutes fins utiles", pour qu'elle en fasse ce qu'elle juge nécessaire de faire, mais sans injonction d'en faire quelque chose.

À toutes fins utiles...


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## Entrains

D'accord avec Punky Zoé. 
L'équivalent anglais serait "for all practical purposes" or "for all useful purposes".


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## Novanas

And thanks to you Punky Zoé and Entrains.  I think I understand what we're talking about now.  This expression "à toutes fins utiles" strikes me as very, very idiomatically French, and we English-speakers have trouble with it.

Following PZ's explanation, "for whatever purpose it might serve" would work very well, but I think I'd go with "for all the good it will do", which is the same meaning, and with which DaiSmallcoal agreed.

Other suggestions such as "as a means to an end", "for all practical purposes" and "for all useful purposes" will work in certain contexts, but not in this one, I don't think.  I'll go with PZ's explanation and suggestion.

As for the situation in which one office, e.g., is passing on information to another office, that's a different situation, and other threads on this forum deal with that use of "à toutes fins utiles".  The normal wording in English here would be "for your information" or "to whom it may concern", but have a look at the other threads if you're interested.

At any rate, many thanks to everyone for your help with this.


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## PaulTR

The most straightforward equivalent here is "just in case," isn't it?


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## franc 91

I think the way it's used here is obviously for ironic effect but as it stands, it's pretty meaningless which probably sums it up - just in case  - is as good a translation as one could hope for here, in my humble opinion.


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