# When should you leave the subject out?



## אדם

How do you know if you can leave the subject out?

Is it based on the ending? i.e. with אכלתי the ending י is like לי, שלי' אני, etc.

With something like זרק for "he threw" do you have to include הוא, because the ending does not end with ו, like it does with "אותו" or "שלומו"?

What do you think?


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## eshcar

the rules are very simple - 
1. *when should you not leave out the subject*: 
a. *always in the third person* (singular & plural - all tenses) - הוא אכל, היא אכלה, הם אכלו, הן אכלו, הם יאכלו, הוא יאכל.
b. *always in the present tense* (all persons sgl. & pl.) - אני אוכל, אנחנו אוכלים, אתה אוכל, את אוכלת, הוא אוכל etc...
c. *always in the future tense* (all persons sgl.&pl.) - אתה תאכל, אני אוכל, הם יאכלו, etc. Though it is formally possible to leave out the subject in the future tense, it is very rarely done in modern spoken hebrew (but you might come across it in literary texts).

2. *when should you leave out the subject:*
a. *in the past tense*, you would normally leave out the subject in 1st & 2nd person - אכלתי, אכלנו, אכלת etc. This is the normal form. You _can _include the subject, but you do that to put the stress/focus on the person doing the action. For example, if you want to stress that it was you (and not someone else) who did the action, then you would include the subject and say אני אכלתי את העוגה. 
b. *always in the imperative* - it doesn't matter if you use the formal impertive form - אכול! or the more colloqial form - תאכל!. Either way, you should always leave out the subject.

Hmm, I guess it wasn't that simple after all...


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## אדם

Alright.

With some words you can just combine the subject and the verb, right? I know you can't with all, but can you say "אוכלי" instead of "אני אוכל"? Like I said, I realize you can't with all, but I was wondering if you can with that.


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## eshcar

Hauser said:


> Alright.
> 
> With some words you can just combine the subject and the verb, right? I know you can't with all, but can you say "אוכלי" instead of "אני אוכל"? Like I said, I realize you can't with all, but I was wondering if you can with that.


 
As a rule, no. You'll have to say אני אוכל. The only time when you use אוכלי is when it come in the form באוכלי (meaning "while I eat/ate/will eat). But this is not used in spoken hebrew, only in written texts, and quite a high register even so.


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## אדם

Alright. תודה על הכול.


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## בעל-חלומות

eshcar said:


> 1. *when should you not leave out the subject*:
> c. *always in the future tense* (all persons sgl.&pl.) - אתה תאכל, אני אוכל, הם יאכלו, etc. Though it is formally possible to leave out the subject in the future tense, it is very rarely done in modern spoken hebrew (but you might come across it in literary texts).


 
While I agree with everything else, I think that people usually _do _drop אנחנו , and it's not that rare when people drop את\אתה\אתם, especially in questions.

For example, 
זה מה שנעשה היום
and not,
זה מה שאנחנו נעשה היום

איפה תשימו את זה?
and not
איפה אתם תשימו את זה?


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## אדם

בעל-חלומות said:


> While I agree with everything else, I think that people usually _do _drop אנחנו , and it's not that rare when people drop את\אתה\אתם, especially in questions.
> 
> For example,
> זה מה שנעשה היום
> and not,
> זה מה שאנחנו נעשה היום



Out of curiousity, what does the preposition ש mean in this sentence?

Also, do you not have to say אנחנו, etc. because it is implied by the conjugation?


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## JaiHare

Hauser said:


> Out of curiousity, what does the preposition ש mean in this sentence?
> 
> Also, do you not have to say אנחנו, etc. because it is implied by the conjugation?


It's not a preposition. It's a relative pronoun. It's the shorter (and more common) form of אשר - "that, which, who".


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## cfu507

Hauser said:


> Out of curiousity, what does the preposition ש mean in this sentence?
> 
> Also, do you not have to say אנחנו, etc. because it is implied by the conjugation?


 
The verb נעשה has to be about us (we), so you don't have to say we.
The same for אעשה. It has to be about me (I) so you don't have to say I.

An example:
אעשה כל מה שתבקש - I'll do anything you ask
אעשה - I'll do (אני אעשה)
תבקש - you'll ask (אתה תבקש)

ש means: that, which, who 
כל שתבקש לו יהי
כל אשר תבקש לו יהי


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## Flaminius

I am sorry if the focus is shifting slightly off-topic but, what differences are there between;
כל מה שתבקש
and
כל שתבקש?


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## cfu507

Flaminius said:


> I am sorry if the focus is shifting slightly off-topic but, what differences are there between;
> כל מה שתבקש
> and
> כל שתבקש?


 
nothing!!!
I was afraid that maybe non-native speakers wouldn't understand me. There is a song:
כל מה שתרצי, מה שתבקשי, אעשה בשבילך...

כל אשר תבקש = כל שתבקש = כל מה שתבקש
That's why I also wrote: כל שתבקש לו יהי
אתן לך כל מה שתבקש, עד חצי המלכות


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## אדם

cfu507 said:


> nothing!!!
> I was afraid that maybe non-native speakers wouldn't understand me. There is a song:
> כל מה שתרצי, מה שתבקשי, אעשה בשבילך...
> 
> כל אשר תבקש = כל שתבקש = כל מה שתבקש
> That's why I also wrote: כל שתבקש לו יהי
> אתן לך כל מה שתבקש, עד חצי המלכות



When you put מה there it is actually what confused me. 

So, is it safe to say that you can leave the subject out in past tense, since all of the בניניים have the subject implied? Such as אכלתי, זרקתי, etc.


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## cfu507

Hauser said:


> When you put מה there it is actually what confused me.


Sorry, but you might hear it that way too.



> So, is it safe to say that you can leave the subject out in past tense, since all of the בניניים have the subject implied? Such as אכלתי, זרקתי, etc.


 
Yes.


In other tenses it depends on the verb. Some verbs are similar for first- second- and third-person.
When it is clear (from the verb) what is the subject you can feel safe to drop it.
For example: גר (gar, means: live)
איפה גר? - I can't know if you ask:
איפה אתה גר - where do you live
איפה הוא גר - where does he live / where did he used to live- the same question in both tenses.
In contrast: ?איפה תאכל ארוחת ערב - It is clear that you are asking: where will you eat.

Also, as eshcar wrote: 
אמא מצאתי את המשקפיים שלך- You just want to say that your mom's glasses were found
אמא אני מצאתי את המשקפיים שלך- You would say it if you wanted to emphasize that you are the one who has found them.


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## cfu507

I have another example:
If I were a man and you asked me:  רוצה תפוח? I would think that you ask me if I want an apple (would you like an apple)​On the other hand, if you wanted to ask if he wants an apple or you wants an apple, you have to mention the subject:  הוא רוצה תפוח? or אני רוצה תפוח?


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## eshcar

Hauser said:


> When you put מה there it is actually what confused me.
> 
> So, is it safe to say that you can leave the subject out in past tense, since all of the בניניים have the subject implied? Such as אכלתי, זרקתי, etc.


 
I just want to stress again - in the 3rd preson (sgl. & pl.) you can't leave out the subject, in *all *tenses (even in the past tense). I know that the form of the verb implies the subject - עשה stands in contranst to עשיתי, עשית etc., but you still can't leave it out. C'est la vie.


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## אדם

Alright, sorry. Thanks for clarifying that again.


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