# 自作孽，不可活



## gzdillon

_Hi,
What is the English for 自作孽_，_不可活_?
Someone in a team is always going to choose a second solution, that involves everyone in a trouble situation. Maybe a parent in a family, maybe a boss in a company, or a powerful friend in a hike, etc.
Then, what noun and what verb for the decision?

TIA


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## Ghabi

你好！說人自作自受，有時候會說you have it coming to you/the chickens have come home to roost之類的，但我不太明白你說的是什麼情況，可以用中文解釋一下嗎？


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## toicy

hi Ghabi, can you tell about the story of "the chickens have come home to roost"? Why does it stand for 自作自受？


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## gzdillon

Ghabi said:


> 你好！說人自作自受，有時候會說you have it coming to you/the chickens have come home to roost之類的，但我不太明白你說的是什麼情況，可以用中文解釋一下嗎？



hi, Ghabi, 我要问的是“拖累团队”的意思。自作自受只是对自己有影响，the chickens have come home to roost好像是有因就有果的意思。
但是很多情况，比如在封闭车厢里吸烟，不光当事人受害，其他人也被动受害。另外，一个不称职的领导人（希特勒，慈禧），也往往将全国带入灾难。从受害人的角度来讲，会心中怨恨，“我真是欠了你上辈子的帐”，而有苦说不出来。
这些当事人说的严重一点，有“一粒老鼠屎，坏了一锅汤”；说的轻点，有“一荣俱荣，一损俱损”。
也许中文本来也没有这样的成语，我想看英语中是否有这样的表述。
谢！


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## SuperXW

你问的那个意思，我怎么觉得和“自作孽，不可活”没关系啊……？“自作孽不可活”不是“咎由自取”的意思么……


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## Ghabi

toicy said:


> hi Ghabi, can you tell about the story of "the chickens have come home to roost"? Why does it stand for 自作自受？


 你好！這裡好像有解釋。


SuperXW said:


> 你问的那个意思，我怎么觉得和“自作孽，不可活”没关系啊……？


我也不明白有什麼關係......如果想說「害群之馬」，可以用bad apple/black sheep那些習語，如果想說「貽禍蒼生」，大概可用scourge/bane之類的。


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## gzdillon

Ghabi said:


> 你好！這裡好像有解釋。
> 
> 我也不明白有什麼關係......如果想說「害群之馬」，可以用bad apple/black sheep那些習語，如果想說「貽禍蒼生」，大概可用scourge/bane之類的。



A common situation is, that boy B1 does girl G2 a favor of driving G2 home. In a sense, G2 should say thanks to B1. But B1 wants to show off his trick-cycling and makes a nasty accident. Then B1 is not only scourging himself, but also the ones in the same boat.
Then how to name this behavior?
TIA


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## Ghabi

The boy does the girl a disservice and the girl may say "thanks for nothing!", I suppose.


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## name my name

自作孽，不可活，不能说是用于团队吧，一般指自作自受。我想可以用god help those who help themselves的反义，但是不知道用英语怎么表达。囧。


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## gzdillon

ghabi said:


> 你好！說人自作自受，有時候會說you have it coming to you/the chickens have come home to roost之類的，但我不太明白你說的是什麼情況，可以用中文解釋一下嗎？


一般来讲，一个朋友，或者一个队员，他与你有非常密切的关系，因此道义上和感情上你不能轻易摆脱这种关系。而同时他有意或者无意地利用了这种关系，使得你处于“一条线上的蚂蚱”的境地，无论怎么劝说，都不能改变他的主意，最后被卷入尴尬的结果。

[案例，如有雷同，纯属巧合]
用一个背包族的例子来说，你们一行4人要出外露营3天。
[策略]
你要求大家带好充足的设备，比如水、头灯、干粮、睡袋、煮水杯、打火机和急救品等，他则反对，认为应该轻装旅行，注重灵活。结果你带了30斤的设备，其他3人就带20斤的简单设备。然后到野外后，大家迷路了，你要求按照原路返回，以求安全，他则坚持要到目的地。
[事故]
他的干粮不够了，多次要求共享大家所有的食物。接着第3天在陌生的地域他脚底被刺破了，因为只有你有急救包，让你出药品、出精力进行急救。
[固执]
在受伤的情况下，你已经打算撤回，让他回家治疗了。他仍然坚持要到目的地。而此时干粮只剩一天的余量，都已经不够搜寻目标然后回程的。但是他用一种激情演说，号召大家同意坚持到目的地，不顾你的反对。另外一个队员c承担他的行李，共40斤左右。
[失败]
最后在接近目的地的地方，队员c摔断了腿，大家处于荒山不能脱身。在没有干粮的情况下，大家向警方求救。用野果和爬虫熬过了2天，并等到了救援，但是断腿的队员因为感染而不得不截肢。
[总结]
他没有进行充分的准备，单凭旺盛的激情改变大家的想法。结果处处“放着阳光大道不走，专走独木桥”，让大家多次处于险境。
[问题]
他的这种心理和行为，可以说是“一意孤行”，“刚愎自用”，也可以说是“明知山有虎，偏向虎山行”的进取，但是有“拖人下水”的实质效果。我认为“_自作孽_，_不可活_”是不大恰当，其实受害的是他人。所以请教在汉语和英语中有什么成语是描述这种人，这种行为的？
此致


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## Emma Well

it means that one does something unnecessarily and what's worse,the thing he did makes him embarrass.


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## xiaolijie

I'd say _"He's a disaster!"_ or _"He's brought disaster on everyone!"_


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## name my name

搞得越来越复杂了！！！


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## gzdillon

gzdillon said:


> _Hi,
> What is the English for 自作孽_，_不可活_?
> Someone in a team is always going to choose a second solution, that involves everyone in a trouble situation. Maybe a parent in a family, maybe a boss in a company, or a powerful friend in a hike, etc.
> Then, what noun and what verb for the decision?
> 
> TIA



再举两个例子，这例子中的“责任方”总是不听劝告，而导致“建议方”无端蒙受损失：

family-1、父母总是劝告青春期的孩子，不要玩游戏、谈恋爱，以免影响学习，浪费青春，但是孩子总是认为父母是错，偏要作对。结果不能顺利地升学，导致工作不稳定，再花比大学4年更多的金钱和时间，来学函授或者成人教育，来取得学历。虽然他本人的代价高，但是牵累父母也有不少的代价。请问除了"叛逆"，用什么词汇来形容孩子的心理和行为（侧重“拖累”他人）？
family-2、夫妻之间总是有说不清的矛盾。其中一个就是，某一方有坏习惯，不停劝告，导致另一方受累。比如丈夫酗酒开车撞人、抽烟把身体搞垮，导致家庭付出额外的医药费和理赔受害者，甚至猝死导致另一方寡居。比如妻子爱慕虚荣、透支未来，导致家庭经济崩溃，让丈夫受累（实证：章小蕙）。请问用什么词汇来形容责任方的心理和行为？


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## gzdillon

gzdillon said:


> 再举两个例子，这例子中的“责任方”总是不听劝告，而导致“建议方”无端蒙受损失：
> 
> family-1、父母总是劝告青春期的孩子，不要玩游戏、谈恋爱，以免影响学习，浪费青春，但是孩子总是认为父母是错，偏要作对。结果不能顺利地升学，导致工作不稳定，再花比大学4年更多的金钱和时间，来学函授或者成人教育，来取得学历。虽然他本人的代价高，但是牵累父母也有不少的代价。请问除了"叛逆"，用什么词汇来形容孩子的心理和行为（侧重“拖累”他人）？
> family-2、夫妻之间总是有说不清的矛盾。其中一个就是，某一方有坏习惯，不停劝告，导致另一方受累。比如丈夫酗酒开车撞人、抽烟把身体搞垮，导致家庭付出额外的医药费和理赔受害者，甚至猝死导致另一方寡居。比如妻子爱慕虚荣、透支未来，导致家庭经济崩溃，让丈夫受累（实证：章小蕙）。请问用什么词汇来形容责任方的心理和行为？



Ok, finally, I found some related words, please choose the best words for the cases (Thanks):

ill-boding
ominous
sinister
unfortunate
unlucky
unpropitious
ill-fated
ill-omened
inauspicious
infelicitous
portentous
infelicity
The Original Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (Americanized Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. Copyright © 1994 by Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved.


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## gzdillon

gzdillon said:


> _Hi,
> What is the English for 自作孽_，_不可活_?
> Someone in a team is always going to choose a second solution, that involves everyone in a trouble situation. Maybe a parent in a family, maybe a boss in a company, or a powerful friend in a hike, etc.
> Then, what noun and what verb for the decision?
> 
> TIA



I found the nouns for the persons:
sourpuss, crosspatch, groucher, grouser, faultfinder, bellyacher, beefer, sulker, malcontent

The Original Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (Americanized Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. Copyright © 1994 by Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved.


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## gzdillon

gzdillon said:


> _Hi,
> What is the English for 自作孽_，_不可活_?
> Someone in a team is always going to choose a second solution, that involves everyone in a trouble situation. Maybe a parent in a family, maybe a boss in a company, or a powerful friend in a hike, etc.
> Then, what noun and what verb for the decision?
> 
> TIA



another set of nouns: 

Emotion, religion and morality: Personal emotion: Dejection. Seriousness
moper (noun)

moper, croaker, complainer, Jonah, malcontent
sourpuss, crosspatch, bear with a sore head
pessimist, damper, wet blanket, killjoy, spoilsport
Job's comforter, misery, sobersides
death's-head, skeleton at the feast, gloom and doom merchant, doomwatcher, doomster, ecodoomster
hypochondriac, malade imaginaire, seek-sorrow, self-tormentor

The Original Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (Americanized Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. Copyright © 1994 by Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved.


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## xiaolijie

*gzdillon*, I think the way you expanded your question  makes it even more difficult for you to get what you need. Please keep  it to the original question (_What is the English for 自作孽_，_不可活_?) and if you need anything else, make a new thread for it. For copyright reason, please do not quote excessively or repeatedly.

(If you think the replies so far don't really answer your question, then try this: make a Chinese sentence with _自作孽_，_不可活_ in it and ask for a translation of the sentence into English.)


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