# Ja tam nawet wiosną bym nie pogardził.



## westhartford

Hello everyone,

I would like to know if the word 'tam' adds any special meaning within the following sentence: 
_(Lato... Tęsknię za Tobą potwornie!)_
*Ja tam nawet wiosną bym nie pogardził. *

Thanks!


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## BezierCurve

This one is colloquial, and pretty hard to explain. It does not have any precise meaning itself; people usually use it to present some fact or opinion _as opposed_ to another (even if it hasn't been expressed openly):

- W sklepie muzycznym są nowe płyty z muzyką Chopina.
- My tam nie słuchamy muzyki klasycznej.

or:

- Nie lubię zimy.
- Ja _tam_ lubię.


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## Thomas1

I think it reinforces the opposition which is already present in the sentence. It is marked by the usage of the personal pronoun ja, which we normally skip (as all the other pronouns). It doeas give a colloquial tang to the sentence; so, you won’t find it in formal situations. 

A: Chciałbym, żeby już było lato.
B: Ja tam nawet wiosną bym nie pogardził. 



In certain situations, it can also connote someone’s condescending attitude to what’s being said as in Bezier's first example.


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## westhartford

Do you think it might have something to do with the English reinforcing do. For example:
No one in my class finished the exam in time, but I did (finish the exam in time), as if you were reinforcing an idea, right?
Nikt nie skończył egzaminu na czas, ale ja tam mogłem?


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## Ben Jamin

westhartford said:


> Nikt nie skończył egzaminu na czas, ale ja tam mogłem?


 
No, nobody would say that.
'Tam' is definitely not a parallel to the English intensifier 'do'.
'Tam' is used to distance oneself from the matter, a way to say "this matter is not so important to me'. Even sometimes condescending as Thomas1 suggests. It is actually difficult to describe all the shades of the use of this word.
Here are some other examples:
Co wy tam robicie! (Hey, what are you doing!) 'Tam' expresses suspicion and enmity.
E, tam! (I don't care!)
Hej wy tam, chodźcie no tu! (Hey you, come here!) Superiority and condescension.
No co ty tam! An attempt at belittleing and refuting the interlocutor.
Ja tam, panie do opery nie chodzę. (I don't go to opera, mister) Distancing oneself.


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## BezierCurve

Maybe in many cases you could think of "tam" as of "on the other hand". Sort of.


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## Thomas1

Ben Jamin said:


> No, nobody would say that.


I'm not sure about it, Ben Jamin. We really say many things we would rarely write. Have a look:





> *Hmm nie  wiem czy to kwestia osobowości, wrodzonych odruchów czy psychiki ale ja  tam moge iśc w nocy na cmentarz, oglądać rzeczy o których piszesz et  cetera. *
> 
> Source


I think this sentence is fine even in written register (in a casual setting).


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## Ben Jamin

Thomas1 said:


> I'm not sure about it, Ben Jamin. We really say many things we would rarely write. Have a look:I think this sentence is fine even in written register (in a casual setting).


 
My comment "nobody would say that" was to the sentence 
"Nikt nie skończył egzaminu na czas, ale ja *tam* mogłem", where 'tam' was proposed as an intensifier. Actually, some people ar very uncouth with their language, but I can't imagine such a sentence uttered by a native speaker who knows what he/she is speaking. Putting 'tam' in this sentence acts just opposite to intensifier, it belittles the achievement.

"*Hmm nie wiem czy to kwestia osobowości, wrodzonych odruchów czy psychiki ale ja tam moge iśc w nocy na cmentarz, oglądać rzeczy o których piszesz et cetera."*

I am not sure what you relate this sentence to. If you want to show that 'tam' goes well i the written langauge, then I would say that this sentence is a "written colloquial/casual langauge", not a typical "litterary language". It can work well as quote, but as authors own words it would give a very casual impression. The columnist in newspapers often write in such style, but it would be out of place in an editorial.


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## Ben Jamin

I have one more remark to make. I think that we just discovered a "condencension particle" in Polish.


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## westhartford

After reading all this, I agree with BezierCurve, I think ''on the other hand or actually'' may actually work in pretty much all those sentences. Though there are some where it seems like you're simply looking down on someone, or at least kind of disapproving of what they are doing. Could you say: Co wy tam mówicie? if you thought someone's critisising you?
Dziękuję wszystkim za pomoc.


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## Ben Jamin

westhartford said:


> After reading all this, I agree with BezierCurve, I think ''on the other hand or actually'' may actually work in pretty much all those sentences. Though there are some where it seems like you're simply looking down on someone, or at least kind of disapproving of what they are doing. Could you say: Co wy tam mówicie? if you thought someone's critisising you?
> Dziękuję wszystkim za pomoc.


 
Yes, you could say so if someone criticized you. 'Tam' would work then as a refutation particle. I am afraid, however, that using this word intending to say 'actually' or 'on the other hand' may result in a misunderstanding, so I would not recommend it. It may be understood as such, or may be not, depending on the context. It is safer to say 'a jednak' or 'z drugiej strony' meaning 'on the other hand', and 'faktycznie' or 'rzeczywiście' or 'naprawdę' meaning 'actually'.


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## Thomas1

Ben Jamin said:


> I have one more remark to make. I think that we just discovered a "condenscension particle" in Polish.


A tam zaraz odkryliśmy, it's been around for a while.  

Here's a quotation form PWN-Oxford Polish-English dictionary:


> tam [...]
> part. co tam u was słychać? how are things?; jak tam twoi rodzice? how are your parents?; co mi tam! pot. who cares? pot.; co tam deszcz, mamy przecież parasole who cares about the rain? - we've got umbrellas; gdzieś tam somewhere (or other); kiedyś tam some day (or other); gdzież mu tam do ciebie he's no match for you; hej tam! hey, you! pot.


I agree that using 'on the other hand' may be hazardous to translate 'tam'.

Co wy tam mówicie? is more or less the equivalent of You don't know what you're talking about., but it is not as explicit.

It's just occured to me that 'tam' can also be translated with the English auxiliary 'do.' Let's take the sentence I quoted [I've changed it a little]:
"*Hmm nie wiem czy to kwestia osobowości, wrodzonych odruchów czy  psychiki ale ja tam chodzę w nocy na cmentarz, oglądać rzeczy o  których piszesz et cetera."*
 I don't know if it's the matter of personality, innate impulses or psyche, but I [actually] do go to the cemetry at night to watch things you're writing about.


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## kknd

a nie prościej zajrzeć do słownika? (tam II) :]


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## slavicka

I came across this thread while looking for information about 'e tam' in the sentence "– E tam, wystarczy. Nie bądź taki wybredny." Does anybody know how colloquial or dialectal it is, or if there is a Standard Czech (written) variant for 'e tam'? Thanks. 

Edit: Sorry, multi-tasking here, I meant Standard Polish.


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## dreamlike

It's colloquial Polish, not Czech, I'm afraid. The sentence translates as: _That's enough, don't be so picky/choosy. _Frankly speaking, I have a hard time coming up with thranslation for "E tam", so I skipped it.


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## LilianaB

"I don't need any more of that, don't tell me anymore. This is enough. Don't be so picky". It is quite colloquial, but not rude or anything, just colloquial. I don't think _e tam_ can be really transformed into literary language. Maybe: Dość tego. Wystarczy ...  Many people would most likely not use this phrase.


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