# This too shall pass



## anirbek

Hi.  This is my first post so I apologise if it is in the wrong place or is inappropriate.  I am trying to translate an old hebrew phrase - 'This too shall pass' into Chinese, for a tattoo.  I have been reading through hundreds of Chengyu to try and find something similar, and all I can find is '瞬息万变 ' which I understand to mean 'in a moment a myriad changes'.  This is close, but not quite perfect.  I want something that quite plainly says 'This is temporary' with no positive or negative connotations.  Just a factual reminder that time passes so good things go, as do the bad.  I have been looking into Chengyu as I really only want about four characters, and have been advised they carry more meaning.  If it makes any difference to the translation, I am female and will be having it tattooed on the inside of  my left wrist.

Sincere thanks for any and all help.


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## Lamb67

大江东去...the Yangze River flows east.hehe poetic version of coz.


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## anirbek

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  I like it.  River flowing East, like 'past going, future coming' right?


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## Lamb67

Many battles took place along the river, the most famous being the Battle of Red Cliffs in 208 AD during the Three Kingdoms period , for more references.


Yes, You are right there. In addition, the characters are much simple for tattoo job, hopfully, cost less.hehe.


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## anirbek

I definitely like it.  Someone on a different forum suggested 这也过去 as a very literal translation.  I understand it is a plain thing, meaning nothing really, and certainly not of traditional or classical Chinese.  Does it say 'this too shall pass', as the saying itself means a lot to me, though obviously very little to others.


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## xiaolijie

> 这也过去...
> Does it say 'this too shall pass'


Yes, it does, and implying that everything will pass.
By the way, the phrase you found, '瞬息万变', means "everything changes so fast, everything changes in a blink of an eye", so it may not be what you're looking for.


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## anirbek

xiaolijie - thanks for that.  I had a feeling it was about rapid change, not what I was really after.  I am leaning towards 这也过去 now, whilst it may not make sense to Chinese people, if it is exaclty the phrase I am after, it makes all the sense in the world to me.  So long as it is not offensive or abusive!  Thanks again.


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## SuperXW

Hmm..."This too shall pass" used to be an important motto for me. It's "indicating that all material conditions, positive or negative, are temporary." (Widipedia) To be honest, I don't think 大江東去 carries the same meaning or the style. It's usually describing "history" rather than "conditions". (瞬息万变 only focuses on "change", also it feels too "active". 这也过去 doesn't make sense.) If we want to find a Chinese equivalent of "this too shall pass", I think we can look into the Buddhist mind sets. 
I don't know much about Buddhism, but there are cool gathas such as:

1. 一切有为法，如梦幻泡影，如露亦如电，应作如是观。——《金刚经》
All conditioned phenomena, are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow; like dew or a flash of lightning; thus we shall perceive them. -_Diamond Sutra_

and
2. 菩提本非树，明镜亦无台；本来无一物，何处惹尘埃。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng
etc. 

They deliver a similar meaning of "this too shall pass." 

3. My other shorter suggustion is 逝者如斯 by Confucius. Literally "passing like this." It's a relatively famous quoting.
子在川上，曰：“逝者如斯夫！不舍昼夜。”——《论语·子罕》
Confucius standing on the bank of the river, says: "(everything is) passing like this! Day and night!" -_Analects_


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## Lamb67

The phrase seems to have originated in the writings of the medieval Persian Sufi poets, and is often attached to a fable of a great king who is humbled by the simple words. Some versions of the fable, beginning with that of Attar of Nishapur, add the detail that the phrase is inscribed on a ring, which therefore has the ability to make the happy man sad and the sad man happy. 

While SuperXW's is a valuable suggestion, I just quoted Wiki's article on our topic sentenc to make a self-defence hopefully. I tried to find the famouse poem by Su Shi in English but to no avail. I believe the above underlined part in particular may strike a chord with me.


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## SuperXW

anirbek said:


> xiaolijie - thanks for that. I had a feeling it was about rapid change, not what I was really after. I am leaning towards 这也过去 now, whilst it may not make sense to Chinese people, if it is exaclty the phrase I am after, it makes all the sense in the world to me. So long as it is not offensive or abusive! Thanks again.


 

 No... You definately don't want to use 这也过去 for your tatoo... It doesn't make sense because it's too literal. Without any context, no one would understand your latent meaning is actually "EVERYTHING shall pass"... If you really want a translation, 一切都会过去 would be ok.


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## anirbek

Argh, now I'm properly confused.  I was quite liking the look of 这也过去 and if it literally is the same words as 'this too shall pass' then the meaning is there for ME - and surely that's what matters - it's not like I am going to go around flaunting my wrist in the faces of Chinese people for them to think I'm a nutter.  I don't mean for EVERYTHING to pass just that this WILL pass (when at a bad time of life) or this will pass (so appreciate this good time in life).  If I had the literal translation 这也过去 would it really be so strange?  

I like 逝者如斯 too - sticking it all in a translator it gave me 'time passes' which is OK, but individually the words came out as Death Person As Sri Lanka!  I realise whole sentences are greater than the sum of their words, but the word Death in there is not a good thing for me!


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## Lamb67

这也过去 ,yes, go on with that please. Indeed you don't have to sound like a nutter or nerd here.

Better go with simple and straightforward one.


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## anirbek

Lamb67 - that's it exactly - this phrase has the ability to make the happy man sad (as he knows this moment of happiness will pass) and the sad man happy (as he knows this moment of sadness will pass).  For me I concentrate on the sadness passing and hope the happiness lingers!


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## SuperXW

Lamb67 said:


> I tried to find the famouse poem by Su Shi in English but to no avail. I believe the above underlined part in particular may strike a chord with me.


 
I found some. For anirbek's reference. 
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/in...our-favorite-chinese-poems-here/page__st__157
or
http://my.opera.com/transient/blog/show.dml/26806861

Lamb, I don't feel 大江東去 catches the feeling because it's too magnificent (especially for a lady.)  Don't you feel so? Also it usually describes "macro" histories rather than "micro" conditions.

That's just my personal opinion about 大江东去. But, how could you possibly agree with 这也过去?? -.- Come on...Simply ask some Chinese how they would understand 这也过去 (don't tell the English phrase first) they'll show you how confused they are...


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## SuperXW

anirbek said:


> I like 逝者如斯 too - sticking it all in a translator it gave me 'time passes' which is OK, but individually the words came out as Death Person As Sri Lanka! I realise whole sentences are greater than the sum of their words, but the word Death in there is not a good thing for me!


 
...Forget about the online translators. (Do you really believe Confucius has anything to do with Sri Lanka!? A real dictionary will show you that most words or charactors has more than one meanings.) So far a computer can't really do translation among many languages because they are totally different systems.


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## xiaolijie

My personal view is _don't put on your body as a permanent tattoo anything that you don't quite understand and can't clearly explain_ . Another thing that is also worth considering: no matter how much sense the phrase you pick has, the tattoo artist you use also needs to understand Chinese in order to make the writing look nice on you.


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## Razzle Storm

Why not get the phrase "this too shall pass" in English? Or Persian, where the phrase originated? Wouldn't that be a bit more meaningful? You could get it in Hebrew if you so desired, but any Chinese translation of a non-Chinese idea/phrase is going to sound awkward. I think any of the languages listed in the wikipedia article would probably be a better choice than Chinese.


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## anirbek

I understand what you are saying about the other languages, and I had primarily considered them, but I want something to read vertically down my wrist, and the other languages just don't do it, nor do I find them visually attractive.  I want something that others can't easily read - so it is personal to me in times of crisis - again, it is the words I need, not a brief history of time or change.  

Are you saying that 这也过去 or even 这也会过去 would be totally non-sensical?  Or just something that can be read but not fully understood?  As the latter could be said of the original text 'this too shall pass'.  Unless you fully understand the story, the words could be meaningless.  I am guessing it is similar to writing something like 'this goes over there' which is pretty random and non-sensical to anyone who didn't specifically want to write it on their skin - but if they did want that, then where's the harm?

Basically, so long as neither are offensive, or when read aloud sound like something offensive or stupid, then they are still my favourites (though I am not rushing out to get myself inked).  It is the 'words' I am becoming to favour - though I admit this was not my initial intention.


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## SuperXW

Translations like 这也过去 won't do any harm. It's not offensive to anyone. If you insist, you can still get it. It can be read but not fully understood just like what you said.
It could be a little bit "stupid" at least in some Chinese's eyes, not because of the words, but because they may think that you got something you didn't quite understand on your body, while not using their language in a best way. Also some Chinese would have the same question of Razzle Storm's. But that's all.


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## anirbek

How would this look to the native eye?  无夜不曙光  I've kept the sentiment, but moved well away from the words.


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## FRee^ARouND

anirbek said:


> How would this look to the native eye? 无夜不曙光 I've kept the sentiment, but moved well away from the words.


 
Never heard before. And I don't know what you want to express neither. 
But I think as a tattoo, it will be cool~!
Let me guess...You want to express"The path of your fate is brilliant everyday"?
I think it is somewhat philosophic, and very close to the way we use Chinese. Unlike no one will use 这也过去 for its grammar error, 无夜不曙光 can be understandable if you give me the context. But I can't see any relations between "无夜不曙光" and "this shall to pass"

By the way I think 逝者如斯 is best fitted. the phrase means time goes by 
and has nothing to do with death. 逝者 there is not the dead. It means the past things, the past time.

Hope it will helps. And I'm very interested about your final choice.


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## SuperXW

无夜不曙光 is not a common idiom, but sounds like a pretty cool original one. Can be a good idea for tattoo.
Literally means "no night, no dawn." I would interpret it as "there won't be any beauty without hardship in the past." Others may have other interpretations.
But like free^around said, there's little relation between "无夜不曙光" and "this shall to pass".


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## blancey

anirbek said:


> If I had the literal translation





anirbek said:


> 这也过去 would it really be so strange? …. I like 逝者如斯 too - sticking it all in a translator it gave me 'time passes' which is OK, but individually the words came out as Death Person As Sri Lanka! I realise whole sentences are greater than the sum of their words, but the word Death in there is not a good thing for me!



 
you love the phrase 这也过去, it’s a improper expression and even don’t sense to native speakers unless it is used in a sentences with comparison and some other words added into this phrase.
e.g. 再苦也經歷過, 這也會過去的。
That means you had so many hardships in the past, the current one is just nothing with comparing to the past.
I doubt it fits your need and if you use it, it will be needed to state the whole sentence in order to make sense.
 



SuperXW said:


> ...Forget about the online translators. (Do you really believe Confucius has anything to do with Sri Lanka!? A real dictionary will show you that most words or charactors has more than one meanings.) So far a computer can't really do translation among many languages because they are totally different systems.


 
I completely agree with SuperXW that online translator is not always reliable, it’s only useful if you already knew the language with manual verification for the results. Otherwise, you will find the results usually do not make sense at all.
 



SuperXW said:


> I don't think





SuperXW said:


> 大江東去 carries the same meaning or the style. It's usually describing "history" rather than "conditions". (瞬息万变 only focuses on "change", also it feels too "active". 这也过去 doesn't make sense.)
> 3. My other shorter suggustion is 逝者如斯 by Confucius. Literally "passing like this." It's a relatively famous quoting.






xiaolijie said:


> 瞬息万变', means "everything changes so fast, everything changes in a blink of an eye", so it may not be what you're looking for.






FRee^ARouND said:


> no one will use





FRee^ARouND said:


> 这也过去 for its grammar error,



 
I think all of the above, 大江東去, 瞬息万变, 逝者如斯, 这也过去 are not suitable. And some members explained those problems very clearly. I pretty agree with them.
I just want to give supplementary views here.
瞬息万变 also carries the meaning that you are not able to bear those fast changes.
逝者如斯 just means everything shall pass in every single minute and you can’t make any work to against it.
大江東去 describes something goods in the past but no longer exists now, usually describes features and history.
e.g. 大江東去, 將軍年老體弱不復當年勇。
A captain defected enemies in his old days but he’s old and week now. 
 



anirbek said:


> How would this look to the native eye?





anirbek said:


> 无夜不曙光 I've kept the sentiment, but moved well away from the words.






FRee^ARouND said:


> 无夜不曙光 can be understandable if you give me the context. But I can't see any relations between "无夜不曙光" and "this shall to pass"



 
I agree with Free^ARouND that this phase is understandable but not common.
 
 
 



anirbek said:


> For me I concentrate on the sadness passing and hope the happiness lingers!


 
First of all, I want to ask what are you really looking for? You want to go the phrase “this too shall pass” shallowly, i.e. everything are changeable, or deeper meaning, i.e. everything will be gone, the world will collapse one day, or just focus on one point, i.e. a sad man shall be happy again someday? Because these three are (slightly to completely) different for a suitable translation.
 
If I am right, you actually focus on the plot of the ring story itself about sadness shall pass and happiness shall come again rather than the meaning of “This too shall pass”. 無夜不曙光 fits your need. But for me, I would use the expression 雨過天青, 苦盡甘來, 否極泰來
 
Those are common expressions that means difficulties shall pass and happiness shall come, however those focus on the final result “happiness” rather than the transition state.
雨過天青You may visualize it by how the lovely clear blue sky is after thunderstorm. It is a common daily expression to encourage people.
苦盡甘來 simply means after difficulties, everything will be fine. But it usually refers to difficulties rather than sadness. It is a common daily expression to encourage people.
否極泰來 carries the same meaning as 苦盡甘來 but it can be used in sadness and difficulties. It is more formal and literary than the two above.
 
Actually those three are pretty similar but I think 否極泰來 and 雨過天青 fit for your need much more. However, I still recommend you, as xiaolijie stated, do not have a permanent tattoo if you don’t understand the language well.


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## FRee^ARouND

blancey said:


> you love the phrase 这也过去, it’s a improper expression and even don’t sense to native speakers unless it is used in a sentences with comparing it with others,
> e.g. 再苦也經歷過, 這也過去的。
> That means you had so many hardships in the past, the current one is just nothing with comparing to the past.
> I doubt it fits your need and if you use it, it will be needed to state the whole sentence in order to make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree with SuperXW that online translator is not always reliable, it’s only useful if you already knew the language with manual verification for the results. Otherwise, you will find the results usually do not make sense at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think all of the above, 大江東去, 瞬息万变, 逝者如斯, 这也过去 are not suitable. And some members explained those problems very clearly. I pretty agree with them.
> I just want to give supplementary views here.
> 瞬息万变 also carries the meaning that you are not able to bear those fast changes.
> 逝者如斯 just means everything shall pass in every single minute and you can’t make any work to against it.
> 大江東去 describes something goods in the past but no longer exists now, usually describes features and history.
> e.g. 大江東去, 將軍年老體弱不復當年勇。
> A captain defected enemies in his old days but he’s old and week now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Free^ARouND that this phase is understandable but not common.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I want to ask what are you really looking for? You want to go the phrase “this too shall pass” shallowly, i.e. everything are changeable, or deeper meaning, i.e. everything will be gone, the world will collapse one day, or just focus on one point, i.e. a sad man shall be happy again someday? Because these three are (slightly to completely) different for a suitable translation.
> 
> If I am right, you actually focus on the plot of the ring story itself about sadness shall pass and happiness shall come again rather than the meaning of “This too shall pass”. 無夜不曙光 fits your need. But for me, I would use the expression 雨過天青, 苦盡甘來, 否極泰來
> 
> Those are common expressions that means difficulties shall pass and happiness shall come, however those focus on the final result “happiness” rather than the transition state.
> 雨過天青You may visualize it by how the lovely clear blue sky is after thunderstorm. It is a common daily expression to encourage people.
> 苦盡甘來 simply means after difficulties, everything will be fine. But it usually refers to difficulties rather than sadness. It is a common daily expression to encourage people.
> 否極泰來 carries the same meaning as 苦盡甘來 but it can be used in sadness and difficulties. It is more formal and literarily than the two above
> 
> Actually those three are pretty similar but I think 否極泰來 and 雨過天青 fit for your need much more. However, I still recommend you, as xiaolijie stated, do not have a permanent tattoo if you don’t understand the language well.


 

I fully agree with you .But personally speaking,  i think both 否極泰來 & 雨過天青    are too direct. Just for me, 逝者如斯 seems more philosophic.
 
And I think 逝者如斯 is just a sentiment about the past time(but don't have to pass in a single minute ). Being passive or negtive just depends on your own thoughts. For me, it means we should cherish every single minute, never let time wasted.


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## xiaolijie

Anirbek, where did you get this 无夜不曙光 from? 

It has the appearance of a proverb but it is not, and this may give people very different interpretations of what it may mean. As I've read all your posts, I guess that it can mean _"every cloud has a silver lining"_.  It's more like you're saying "I'm accepting the hardship now for the sake of something better to emerge from it".  Is this what you want?


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## anirbek

SuperXW said:


> 无夜不曙光 is not a common idiom, but sounds like a pretty cool original one. Can be a good idea for tattoo.
> Literally means "no night, no dawn." I would interpret it as "there won't be any beauty without hardship in the past." Others may have other interpretations.
> But like free^around said, there's little relation between "无夜不曙光" and "this shall to pass".




This is what I intended.  No matter how dark it is right now, KNOW that the dawn will come.  I think it's my favourite for now.  Still, more sleeping on it I guess!


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## anirbek

xiaolijie said:


> Anirbek, where did you get this 无夜不曙光 from?
> 
> It has the appearance of a proverb but it is not, and this may give people very different interpretations of what it may mean. As I've read all your posts, I guess that it can mean _"every cloud has a silver lining"_.  It's more like you're saying "I'm accepting the hardship now for the sake of something better to emerge from it".  *Is this what you want?*



Yes!  That's it exactly.  It (life's current condition) may be dark and overpowering, but it WILL pass, (better things will come).  I wanted 'this too shall pass' becasue it focuses on all things passing, not just the bad stuff going into good, but also the good stuff going into bad, so you look forward to good stuff, or appreciate the good stuff that's here right now.  'No night without dawn' is another English phrase taken from poetry - no matter how dark it is now, dawn will come and the sun will rise - hold fast, if you will.


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## blancey

FRee^ARouND said:


> I fully agree with you .But personally speaking, i think both 否極泰來 & 雨過天青 are too direct. Just for me, 逝者如斯 seems more philosophic.
> 
> And I think 逝者如斯 is just a sentiment about the past time(but don't have to pass in a single minute ). Being passive or negtive just depends on your own thoughts. For me, it means we should cherish every single minute, never let time wasted.


 
I agree with you on "being +ve or -ve just depends on your own thoughts".


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## blancey

anirbek said:


> Yes! That's it exactly. It (life's current condition) may be dark and overpowering, but it WILL pass, (better things will come). I wanted 'this too shall pass' becasue it focuses on all things passing, not just the bad stuff going into good, but also the good stuff going into bad, so you look forward to good stuff, or appreciate the good stuff that's here right now. 'No night without dawn' is another English phrase taken from poetry - no matter how dark it is now, dawn will come and the sun will rise - hold fast, if you will.


 
But 無夜不曙光 it is not a common Chinese expression. It's just a translation from English, but, if you really want it, then go for it.


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## FRee^ARouND

anirbek said:


> This is what I intended. No matter how dark it is right now, KNOW that the dawn will come. I think it's my favourite for now. Still, more sleeping on it I guess!


 
Seems l've just missed it!
Well I think you can use it as a tattoo for it does very cool even for us Chinese and have nothing wrong with itself. And I think it is very native. If some one show me this phrase I'll figure it made by a Chinese.
However, make sure you've serious thinking about it. I don't want to see 10 ten days after you post a new thread and says "How a about change my tattoo to 盈虚者如彼". (Plus I still insist that 逝者如斯 it the best...)


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## FRee^ARouND

anirbek said:


> This is what I intended. No matter how dark it is right now, KNOW that the dawn will come. I think it's my favourite for now. Still, more sleeping on it I guess!


By the way, what does that mean?
quote [Still, more sleeping on it I guess! ]


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## anirbek

Ha!  To *sleep on it* in English, means to ponder it a while, consider it much more before going ahead.  Gives one time to change one's mind, again - as you'll see I have a habit to do!


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## Lamb67

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1183559&highlight=%E6%B7%A1+%E5%AE%9A

淡定 is what come into my mind.


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## FRee^ARouND

Lamb67 said:


> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1183559&highlight=%E6%B7%A1+%E5%AE%9A
> 
> 淡定 is what come into my mind.


 
淡定 is too common I think, everybody knows it and everybody uses it. I'm not saying it is not good, but now that there's no grammar flaw, no strangeness in her own expression, why not use the unique one?


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## SuperXW

In mainland China today, 淡定 has changed its status from an elegant word into a popular slang. Young people use it in very informal situations as well as on Internet. 
e.g.
-烦死我了！ -I'm so annoyed!
-兄弟，淡定！ -Stay calm/Chill, bro!
If you get this tattoo now, young people could realize you as a casual, unserious cool person. Beware it might be out of fashion several years later.


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## FRee^ARouND

SuperXW said:


> In mainland China today, 淡定 has changed its status from a formal word into a popular slang. Young people use it in very informal situations as well as on Internet.
> -烦死我了！ -I'm so annoyed!
> -兄弟，淡定！ -Stay calm/Chill, bro!
> If you get this tattoo now, young people could realize you as a casual, unserious cool person. Beware it might be out of fashion several years later.


 
I think she didn't look for a cool expression(otherwise I'll highly recommond 蛋定~ 尼玛伤不起 etc.) I think she is looking for a intricate way to express her emotion.


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## BODYholic

anirbek said:


> No matter how dark it is right now, KNOW that the dawn will come.



That would be "柳暗花明又一村". But it's a bit long for a tattoo. You may consider just "柳暗花明".


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## FRee^ARouND

BODYholic said:


> That would be "柳暗花明又一村". But it's a bit long for a tattoo. You may consider just "柳暗花明".


 
Well I think 柳暗花明 is a little inapproperiate. That means when you lose all of your faith, hope , everything goes south , somewhat things get reversed, you just overcome the obstcles. 
I think 柳暗花明 is kind of lucky.


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## BODYholic

FRee^ARouND said:


> That means when you lose all of your faith, hope , everything goes south ,





anirbek said:


> no matter how *dark *it is now,



Well, I'm afraid that's exactly what the thread starter wants.


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## FRee^ARouND

BODYholic said:


> Well, I'm afraid that's exactly what the thread starter wants.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by *anirbek* 
No matter how dark it is right now, KNOW that the dawn will come.


柳暗花明 means you don't know the dawn will come


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## BODYholic

FRee^ARouND said:


> 柳暗花明 means you don't know the dawn will come



That's not the gist of the poem by 陆游. I don't want to spend time explaining, you may Google/百度 it for its details.

柳暗花明又一村 reminds me of the English saying, 'Every dark cloud has a silver lining.'.


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## FRee^ARouND

BODYholic said:


> That's not the gist of the poem by 陆游. I don't want to spend time explaining, you may Google/百度 it for its details.
> 
> 柳暗花明又一村 reminds me of the English saying, 'Every dark cloud has a silver lining.'.



According to http://cy.5156edu.com/html4/7826.html
十二月十三日之晨，我心酸肠断，以为从此要尝些人生失望与悲哀的滋味，谁知眼前有这种～的美景。（冰心《寄小读者·通讯十一》


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## FRee^ARouND

BODYholic said:


> That's not the gist of the poem by 陆游. I don't want to spend time explaining, you may Google/百度 it for its details.
> 
> 柳暗花明又一村 reminds me of the English saying, 'Every dark cloud has a silver lining.'.



《柳暗花明》 - 用法说明一、 
语义说明形容绿柳成荫，繁花似锦的美景。
使用类别用在「景致美好」的表述上。
例句
春天时原野上柳暗花明，风景优美。
阳明山上柳暗花明的景色，让游客们都感到心旷神怡。
这条山路沿途的风光柳暗花明，让人流连忘返，不忍离去。

《柳暗花明》 - 用法说明二、 
语义说明比喻在曲折艰辛之后，忽然绝处逢生，另有一番情景。
使用类别用在「出现转机」的表述上。
例句
众人眼看希望越来越渺茫，不料柳暗花明，竟然出现新的转机。
不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。
本以为是条死巷，没想到转个弯后，居然柳暗花明，出现一座花团锦簇的花园。
眼看景气日益衰退，公司的业绩不断下滑，没有人知道何时才能柳暗花明，转亏为盈。

辨识
近义词花光柳影、花团锦簇、花娇柳媚、柳绿花红、桃红柳绿
否极泰来、峰回路转、绝处逢生

反义词山穷水尽

参考词语花明柳暗
释义即「柳暗花明」。
书证
唐．李商隐〈夕阳楼〉诗：「花明柳暗绕天愁，上尽重城更上楼。」
《荡寇志．第五回》：「父女二人又行了三四十里，一路花明柳暗，水绿山妍。」


Here is the 柳暗花明's two meaning. 
No.1 is not the meaning we discussed about.
No.2 is originated from Luyou's poem. As far as I know, all the writer use it to describing a bonanza.


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## SuperXW

The beauty of the idiom 柳暗花明 lies in its ambiguity...
Although it's not excactly a translation of "this too shall pass", they somehow bring me a similar feeling. Not to mention how elegant the idiom 柳暗花明 is.


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## FRee^ARouND

SuperXW said:


> The beauty of the idiom 柳暗花明 lies in its ambiguity...
> Although it's not excactly a translation of "this too shall pass", they somehow bring me a similar feeling. Not to mention how elegant the idiom 柳暗花明 is.



Yeah...But I don't think it is appropriate for a tattoo....无夜不曙光 is petty cool and so original ....


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## blancey

FRee^ARouND said:


> 《柳暗花明》 - 用法说明一、
> 语义说明形容绿柳成荫，繁花似锦的美景。
> 使用类别用在「景致美好」的表述上。
> 例句
> 春天时原野上柳暗花明，风景优美。
> 阳明山上柳暗花明的景色，让游客们都感到心旷神怡。
> 这条山路沿途的风光柳暗花明，让人流连忘返，不忍离去。
> 
> 《柳暗花明》 - 用法说明二、
> 语义说明比喻在曲折艰辛之后，忽然绝处逢生，另有一番情景。
> 使用类别用在「出现转机」的表述上。
> 例句
> 众人眼看希望越来越渺茫，不料柳暗花明，竟然出现新的转机。
> 不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。
> 本以为是条死巷，没想到转个弯后，居然柳暗花明，出现一座花团锦簇的花园。
> 眼看景气日益衰退，公司的业绩不断下滑，没有人知道何时才能柳暗花明，转亏为盈。
> 
> 辨识
> 近义词花光柳影、花团锦簇、花娇柳媚、柳绿花红、桃红柳绿
> 否极泰来、峰回路转、绝处逢生
> 
> 反义词山穷水尽
> 
> 参考词语花明柳暗
> 释义即「柳暗花明」。
> 书证
> 唐．李商隐〈夕阳楼〉诗：「花明柳暗绕天愁，上尽重城更上楼。」
> 《荡寇志．第五回》：「父女二人又行了三四十里，一路花明柳暗，水绿山妍。」
> 
> 
> Here is the 柳暗花明's two meaning.
> No.1 is not the meaning we discussed about.
> No.2 is originated from Luyou's poem. As far as I know, all the writer use it to describing a bonanza.



I can't agree with you about the meaning, I don't think it associates with "lucky". I think it's an universal understanding on this phrase 柳暗花明, which doesn't only go shallowly about the beautiful spring, it always carries the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday, similar to English "Never give up. If a door closes, God will open a window"

I agree that it fits the need focusing on hardship shall fade out and happiness shall come again.

Reference from
A. Education Dept, Taiwan 台灣教育部重編國語辭典修訂本
柳暗花明-
1. 形容綠柳茂密，繁花似錦的美景。蕩寇志˙第五回：「父女二人又行了三四十里，一 　路柳暗花明，水綠山妍。」亦作「花明柳暗」。 
2. 比喻在曲折艱辛之後，忽然絕處逢生，另有一番情景。見「柳暗花明又一村」條。如 　：「不要悲觀，人生常是處處峰迴路轉，時時柳暗花明，你不可放棄希望。」

B. (Official) Publisher, Mainland China 新華在線字典
柳暗花明-
垂柳浓密，鲜花夺目。形容柳树成荫，繁花似锦的春天景象。也比喻在困难中遇到转机。

C. Original poem
「山重水复疑无路，柳暗花明又一村 」宋·陆游《游山西村》
It exactly states the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday


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## FRee^ARouND

blancey said:


> I can't agree with you about the meaning, I don't think it associates with "lucky". I think it's an universal understanding on this phrase 柳暗花明, which doesn't only go shallowly about the beautiful spring, it always carries the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday, similar to English "Never give up. If a door closes, God will open a window"
> 
> I agree that it fits the need focusing on hardship shall fade out and happiness shall come again.
> 
> Reference from
> A. Education Dept, Taiwan 台灣教育部重編國語辭典修訂本
> 柳暗花明-
> 1. 形容綠柳茂密，繁花似錦的美景。蕩寇志˙第五回：「父女二人又行了三四十里，一 　路柳暗花明，水綠山妍。」亦作「花明柳暗」。
> 2. 比喻在曲折艱辛之後，忽然絕處逢生，另有一番情景。見「柳暗花明又一村」條。如 　：「不要悲觀，人生常是處處峰迴路轉，時時柳暗花明，你不可放棄希望。」
> 
> B. (Official) Publisher, Mainland China 新華在線字典
> 柳暗花明-
> 垂柳浓密，鲜花夺目。形容柳树成荫，繁花似锦的春天景象。也比喻在困难中遇到转机。
> 
> C. Original poem
> 「山重水复疑无路，柳暗花明又一村 」宋·陆游《游山西村》
> It exactly states the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday



Yeah but can you count you life on 柳暗花明？
You seems didn't really appreciate the examples I gave you.

 众人眼看希望越来越渺茫，不料柳暗花明，竟然出现新的转机。
 不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。
 本以为是条死巷，没想到转个弯后，居然柳暗花明，出现一座花团锦簇的花园。
 眼看景气日益衰退，公司的业绩不断下滑，没有人知道何时才能柳暗花明，转亏为盈。
 十二月十三日之晨，我心酸肠断，以为从此要尝些人生失望与悲哀的滋味，谁知眼前有这种～的美景。（冰心《寄小读者·通讯十一》
 梁启超：“我们读西洋史，真是越读越有趣，处处峰回路转，时时柳暗花明”

Can you sense that 柳暗花明 is kind of lucky? You see, most of them use 柳暗花明 with "竟然" "居然" "" "没有人知道" "谁知". As you said, 柳暗花明 is unexpected, it doesn't meant to be, or should happen someday.Though "unexpected" doesn't need to be "lucky", obviously 柳暗花明 is kind of lucky.for example, You can say it is 柳暗花明 because you win a lottery, and that is how most of us use it.



> [it always carries the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday
> I agree that it fits the need focusing on hardship shall fade out and happiness shall come again.]
> 
> 柳暗花明 doesn't require you never give up.  Happiness may come, may not, it may never happen. It is not 命中注定，天命所归。 Only when it happens, we call it 柳暗花明. That is why the author use 总会有 in 不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。 .
> 
> it has little to do with efforts you know? Take Luyou's experience as an example.
> He found 柳暗花明 because he is 山重水复疑无路. But he also can found 柳暗花明 just a step away from the route's origin. Whether he can found 柳暗花明 has little to do with the range he has footed. Do you still instead that 柳暗花明 doesn't associates with "lucky" now?
> 
> In my point of view, a tattoo is a way to make you cool, or a symbol to inspire you.
> I think 柳暗花明 inappropriate for a tattoo mainly because it has a meaning here that you give you future to god, not yourself. It is kind of passive as a tattoo, though it is neutral itself. If you use 柳暗花明 as a tattoo, I strongly recommend 彩票中奖 把把都赢 逢赌必胜 instead.


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## blancey

FRee^ARouND said:


> Yeah but can you count you life on 柳暗花明？
> You seems didn't really appreciate the examples I gave you.
> 
> 众人眼看希望越来越渺茫，不料柳暗花明，竟然出现新的转机。
> 不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。
> 本以为是条死巷，没想到转个弯后，居然柳暗花明，出现一座花团锦簇的花园。
> 眼看景气日益衰退，公司的业绩不断下滑，没有人知道何时才能柳暗花明，转亏为盈。
> 十二月十三日之晨，我心酸肠断，以为从此要尝些人生失望与悲哀的滋味，谁知眼前有这种～的美景。（冰心《寄小读者·通讯十一》
> 梁启超：“我们读西洋史，真是越读越有趣，处处峰回路转，时时柳暗花明”
> 
> Can you sense that 柳暗花明 is kind of lucky? You see, most of them use 柳暗花明 with "竟然" "居然" "" "没有人知道" "谁知". As you said, 柳暗花明 is unexpected, it doesn't meant to be, or should happen someday.Though "unexpected" doesn't need to be "lucky", obviously 柳暗花明 is kind of lucky.for example, You can say it is 柳暗花明 because you win a lottery, and that is how most of us use it.
> 
> [it always carries the meaning the hardships in life seems endless but goodness shall come unexpectedly someday
> I agree that it fits the need focusing on hardship shall fade out and happiness shall come again.]
> 
> 柳暗花明 doesn't require you never give up.  Happiness may come, may not, it may never happen. It is not 命中注定，天命所归。 Only when it happens, we call it 柳暗花明. That is why the author use 总会有 in 不要因为一时的挫折而怀忧丧志，只要持续努力，总会有柳暗花明的时刻。 .
> 
> it has little to do with efforts you know? Take Luyou's experience as an example.
> He found 柳暗花明 because he is 山重水复疑无路. But he also can found 柳暗花明 just a step away from the route's origin. Whether he can found 柳暗花明 has little to do with the range he has footed. Do you still instead that 柳暗花明 doesn't associates with "lucky" now?
> 
> In my point of view, a tattoo is a way to make you cool, or a symbol to inspire you.
> I think 柳暗花明 inappropriate for a tattoo mainly because it has a meaning here that you give you future to god, not yourself. It is kind of passive as a tattoo, though it is neutral itself. If you use 柳暗花明 as a tattoo, I strongly recommend 彩票中奖 把把都赢 逢赌必胜 instead.


I am sorry am I offensive to you? I can't see any lines in my previous post mentioning I don't appreciate your works or example, nor your example is completely wrong or inappropriate. I just give my views on this specific phrase with reference to official government bodies. It is an objective discussion, don't make it personal.

I won't give further views on this topic. I do not intend to create any arguments. Some of us already expressed we have similar/ the same understanding on this specific phrase. And I am sure some other members can further illustrate this phrase very well.

For administrator, if you find this post is irrelevant to the topic, please feel free to delete it. I just can't stop myself responding. Thanks!


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## FRee^ARouND

blancey said:


> I am sorry am I offensive to you? I can't see any lines in my previous post mentioning I don't appreciate your works or example, nor your example is wrong or inappropriate. I just give my views on this specific phrase with reference to official government bodies. It is an objective discussion, don't make it personal.
> 
> I won't give further views on this topic. I do not intend to create any arguments. I am sure some other members can illustrate this phrase very well.
> 
> For administrator, if you find this post is irrelevant to the topic, please feel free to delete it. I just can't stop myself responding. Thanks!



No. I didn't think I was offended. I want to express 理解 by using"Appreciate". But seems I use it wrongly? 

http://www.google.com.hk/dictionary?langpair=en|zh-CN&q=appreciate&hl=zh-CN&aq=f.  
[3.to understand or realize that something is true 理解；意识到；领会]
Seems you took it as  
[1. recognize the good qualities of somebody/something 欣赏；赏识；重视 VN]
That is a misunderstand. My bad, sorry.

We just had a friendly argument, which I think is very important to found the answer, the truth. I don't think who is right all wrong there, we just post our different opinions. But if you take it as a bitter controversy, even an abuse, I'm deeply sorry for that. The only one who should be to blame is me, not you.


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## FRee^ARouND

Sorry for making you unhappy AG


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## blancey

That's ok. It's good that it is a misunderstanding.


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## Lamb67

yu guo tian qing | Definition | Mandarin Chinese Pinyin English Dictionary | Yabla Chinese

Never too late to find a better  one.


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## Skatinginbc

anirbek said:


> How would this look to the native eye?  无夜不曙光


不 + verb, so I think 无夜不曙, which consists of only four characters instead of five, would be grammatically and stylistically better.

曙光 is normally a noun, and 曙, when used as a verb, is customarily intransitive (e.g.,《玉台新咏·古诗为焦仲卿妻作》鸡鸣外欲曙, 新妇起严妆). 曙 used as a transitive verb in *无夜不曙光 (structurally parallel to 无风不起浪) goes against its customary usage.


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