# All dialects/MSA: diminutive التصغير



## Nikola

I have never seen this subject on the web or in books.
these examples I know عويشة  عيشة  , دار دويرة  .  'aisha and dar.
I have seen it with feminine names and nouns. Can we use it with masculine names and nouns? What is the rule for both written and spoken? So far I see we can add a و. In searching this forum the only reference I found was this .
Other than names what is its purpose?


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## Tajabone

Hi Nikola,

 My answer will be short (lack of time, sorry!)

 One of the principles that guides the formation of diminutives is gender change, from masculine to feminine form (hence the final a). 

 A diphtongue is also added : it's the sound "wi"

 e.g. *صالح  -> صويلح*

 Translit: Saalah -> Swile7 

 This works at least with Algerian arabic.

 I recall an Algerian teacher in my "boyhood" saying this : *صْغِيوَر* for *صْغِير* (Sghiwer for Sghiir)

 The spirit of this change seems to be "Small is beautiful" 

 Wa e-salaam !


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## Nikola

Thanks Tajabone. It seems Egyptians use this *صْغِيوَر* for *صْغِير* (Sghiwer for Sghiir) all the time.


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## Taalib

We use this form to denote smallness or even affection; often used for people's names as well as concrete objects. The pattern is CuCayC (C = consonant; u = short vowel; ay = short vowel). Often the taa marbuuta is added on, but not necessarily. The case endings in these examples are added only for the first example:

Masculine:
حَسَن = حُسَيْن (hence Hussein)
قبل = قبيل (hence qubayla, an adverb meaning "a little time before," derived from an adverb meaning before)

Feminine:
شجرة = شجيرة (hence shujayra, a noun meaning "bush" or "little tree," derived from the noun for tree)
بحر = بحيرة (hence buhayra, a noun meaning "lake" ["small sea"], derived from the noun for sea)


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## Nikola

I am still not 100% clear. When do we add و and when ى ? In Taalib's example there is only ى and u short vowel. In my example and Tajabone's there is و .


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## ayed

In diminutive :
alif( ا ) becomes ( و ) 
*فالح =فويلح*
*مالح : مويلح*
*كاتب:كويتب*
*ناقد :نويقد*
*طالب : طويلب*
*عالم : عويلم*
*================*
*كتاب:كتيب*
*قلم :قليم*
*عصفور:عصيفير*
*غزال:غزيل*
*عين:عيينة*
*شنطة : شنيطة*
*صورة : صويرة*
*بنت:بنية*
*ولد:وليد*
*ورقة:وريقة*
*عقرب:عقيرب*


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## Nikola

بارك الله فيك ياعايد
Thanks Tajabone and Taalib.


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## SofiaB

Besides names how frequent is the diminutive in colloquial Arabic.


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## Mahaodeh

In Iraq, it's used for affection (when talking to children especially since they are small), insult (by impling he/she/it is small), and to literally describe a diminishing thing (most common), it's relatively common.  I don't think it's used as commonly in the Levant though.


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## WadiH

Can you give some examples?


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## Mahaodeh

1. affection:
هلة بالحبَيّبة - an affectionate way of saying حبيبة
شوفوا هل الطويلب الصغيرون - to a child, affectionately saying طالب صغيَر
2. insult:
عاب هل الرويس الطايح حظه - where رويس is the diminutive of رئيس
3. literally:
شبيب صغير - literally meaning he is younger than شاب, usually for someone in his late teens since شاب is used for someone even in his fourties.
عندهم حديقونة قدام البيت - they have a tiney garden, where حديقونة is smaller than حديقة.
انطيني شويونة بس - where شويونة is less than شوية which is already diminutive of شي (MSA = شيء)

The last sense is used more than the rest.


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## clevermizo

In Lebanese Arabic there are some derived diminutives which have become normal words (non-diminutive):

خاي 
5aay -  brother 
_from _أخ

باي  
beey - father
_from_ أب

دينة
dayni - ear 
_from _أذن which is أدن elsewhere in the region.

And of course common to many dialects is شوي, شوية (a little, a little bit of...) which is the derived diminutive of شي from شيء

And some words which are true diminutives (they contrast with non-diminutives)

صغيّر
Zghayyar - very small (especially, لما كنت صغيّر _lamma kint (i)Zghayyar_ when I was a little kid).


Also I believe they use this commonly in Egyptian Arabic - قريّب _orayyeb_, meaning close, near (from قريب _ariib_).

However, in Lebanese or elsewhere in the Levant, I don't know if this diminutive phenomenon is productive, i.e. that you can make بويت *buwayyet from _beet_ and get "a little house". It may be restricted to set lexical items.


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## Josh_

Nikola said:
			
		

> Can we use it with masculine names and nouns?


I imagine it could be done with just about any name.  I knew a guy named Safaa2 (at least that's how it sounded -- perhaps it is spelled صفاء ) and his wife would affectionately call him Safuuti (صفوتي ).



Nikola said:


> Thanks Tajabone. It seems Egyptians use this *صْغِيوَر* for *صْغِير* (Sghiwer for Sghiir) all the time.



Actually, it is Sughayyar -- If you spelled it out it would look the same way as Saghiir, but with a shadda over the yaa2 (like in clevermizo's post).  You are right, this is the common word used for small.  While it has the sound of a diminutive I don't think there is any diminutive meaning in it.  There are variations on the word that give it a diminutive, or cutesy, type meaning, though.  There seems to be many variations, but the ones I can think of the top of my head are Sughannan (صغنن), Sughannuun (صغنون), and Sughantuut (صغنتوت).  As I said, these are all cutesy ways to say small.



			
				SofiaB said:
			
		

> Besides names how frequent is the diminutive in colloquial Arabic.


I don't know for sure, but I would imagine diminutives are common in the colloquial as well.  '2arnab' is the word for rabbit and I have frequently heard 2arnuub(a) (which we could translate as bunny). 'kalb' is the word for dog, but I have heard 'kaluub(a) -- puppy.



			
				clevermizo said:
			
		

> Also I believe they use this commonly in Egyptian Arabic - قريّب _orayyeb_, meaning close, near (from قريب _ariib_).


Yes, there are a number of adjectives, which have the diminutive look, but as you said have become normal words -- we mentioned Sughayyar and 2urayyib.  There are two more I can think of offhand: 2ulayyil -- little (from قليل) and 2uSayyar -- short (from قصير ).  There might be more but I can't think of them right now.


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## SofiaB

It is a great help everybody.


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## WadiH

As the others have said, outside the Arabian Peninsula, it's not used very often except in fossilized forms such as بنيّة (girl) in Iraq and Kuwait, حنيّن صغيّر قريّب in Egypt, خطيّ in Syria, etc. Of course, here I'm talking about the "true" dimunutive of Classical Arabic (_fu3ayl_, _fu3ayyil_, _fu3ay3iil_, _fuway3il_, etc.), and not "innovative" forms such as _fa33ula_ (e.g. بنّوتة)

I suppose in southern and western Iraq you'll find it used because there's been a heavy and continuous influx of bedouin tribes ending up there from Arabia for a thousand years up until the 1920's.

In Arabia, I think you only find it among the tribes (i.e. not in large cities like Jeddah, Mecca, Medina, Dammam, al-Hasa), and in Nejd. It's very much productive, but you'll notice it used more by women then by men, and more by older people than younger generations.

When women use it, it's mostly to express affection in some direct or indirect way, or to express sympathy or empathy. For example, a mother would tell her son to drink some water (_moyah_) by saying "_ishrablik hal ummayha_?" or to eat an apple by saying "_kil hattfayfii7ah _كل هالتفيفيحة" or a woman could tell a story about another woman and her child and say "_5afat 3ala wlaydha_" ("she worried about her son"). A mother may tell her daughter to look after her younger brother by saying انتبهي لاخيّك.

When men use it, it's often meant more literally (e.g. جايع؟ والله جويع "Are you hungry?", "I'm a little hungry"), or to belittle someone or something.

People in Nejd use the dimunitive so much that even demonstratives can have dimunitive forms, so for example the words for "here", _hina_ هناand _feetha_ في ذا often become _hnayya_ هنيّا and _feethayya _في ذيّا.

When I was growing up in Riyadh, it was not uncommon for my aunts to utter entire sentences where almost all nouns are in the dimunutive (and they probably still do).


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## Mahaodeh

Wadi Hanifa said:


> I suppose in southern and western Iraq you'll find it used because there's been a heavy and continuous influx of bedouin tribes ending up there from Arabia for a thousand years up until the 1920's.


 
I wasn't referring to the dialects of the south of Iraq (although they too use it, but they have their own dialcets); my reference was Baghdad, also used to the north (but not as far as Mousil, where I haven't heard it) and the upper Euphrates up to the Syrian border.

I'd say it's quite common in most of Iraq; the only exception is Mousil, which I'm not sure of.  I also don't mean fossilised such as بنيّة، صغيّر، قصيّر، وليد


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## WadiH

Well, whatever the geographical distribution may be, the reason is undoubtedly due to the heavy bedouin influence that dwarfs that of any other Arab country, and extends from the Jazirah in the north to Basra in the south. Iraq was the final destination of a great many Arabian tribes. From what I've read, the Baghdadi dialect of today is very different from that of a few centuries ago, when it was more like that of Mosul, a dialect that probably descends from the medieval dialect of Iraq (hence the "q" vs. "g" shibboleth, for example).


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## suma

Mahaodeh said:


> عندهم حديقونة قدام البيت - they have a tiney garden, where حديقونة is smaller than حديقة.
> انطيني شويونة بس - where شويونة is less than شوية which is already diminutive of شي (MSA = شيء)
> 
> The last sense is used more than the rest.


 
That's interesting, I've never heard that _oonah _ending. 
Is that common in other dialects besides Iraq?


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## WadiH

It's found in Arabia too.  It's more like a diminutive of a diminutive, so to speak.  صغينون is smaller than صغيّر.


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## Hemza

Wadi Hanifa said:


> People in Nejd use the dimunitive so much that even demonstratives can have dimunitive forms, so for example the words for "here", _hina_ هناand _feetha_ في ذا often become _hnayya_ هنيّا and _feethayya _في ذيّا.
> 
> When I was growing up in Riyadh, it was not uncommon for my aunts to utter entire sentences where almost all nouns are in the dimunutive (and they probably still do).



I don't know if it's like in Arabia (probably not for all forms), but تصغير is used a loooot in my city by the elderly mostly (Fès).

And I didn't know 'هنيا' exists elsewhere than Maghreb countries. This form has been used a lot, especially by rural people (not 100% sure about this statement though) although nowadays, urban and rural people use it depending on their mood (it's either 'hna' or 'hnaya'). It's also the case with 2 pronouns, 'أنا' becomes 'أنايا' and 'أنت' becomes either 'antaya' or 'antiya'.


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