# Się - reflexive verbs



## Hal1fax

I pretty much get the point/meaning of się but I am still somewhat confused. I know it's used with some verbs, I am wondering does it just modify the verb or change the meaning totally?(ex ludzic, ludzic sie)
Also besides using it with verbs, where else would it be appropriate?
thanks=)


----------



## Marga H

Hi,
*się *+ verb makes reflexive verb
łudzić kogoś - delure somebody
łudzić się - delure oneself
 myć coś - wash something 
 myć się - wash oneself ( French: *se *laver )
some verbs exist only with się : śmiać się - laugh
się is repeated with each person while you make the coniugation:
ja się śmieję, ty się śmiejesz
It is used with verbs only.
*się *can also have impersonal meaning: Mówi *się* po angielsku - *On *parle anglais - English is spoken.


----------



## Jana337

Hal1fax said:


> I pretty much get the point/meaning of się but I am still somewhat confused. I know it's used with some verbs, I am wondering does it just modify the verb or change the meaning totally?(ex ludzic, ludzic sie)
> Also besides using it with verbs, where else would it be appropriate?
> thanks=)


You should bear in mind that reflexivity is a grammar concept, which means that logic will often fail you. Look at Marga's example: There's nothing inherently reflexive (meaning that the subject is doing something to himself or herself) in "to laugh", and yet, the verb is reflexive.

If you compare verbs across Slavic, Germanic and Romance languages, you will see a high degree of agreement in cases like "to wash sth/sb/oneself" but a lot of randomness in intransitive verbs.

Change in meaning:
There are three types of verbs - always reflexive, never reflexive, both reflexive and non-reflexive. In the last category, reflexive and non-reflexive verbs (like łudzić and łudzić się) tend to have predictable meanings (only "sb/sth" changes to "oneself") but there are cases where you have to stretch your imagination to trace a connection.


----------



## Thomas1

As for verbs like _śmiać się, wyobrażać sobie, urodzić się_ I don't discern any meaning of the pronoun--I wonder what looks like its evolution if it used to mean something some time in the past. In case of other verbs I can, most ofte it's the implication that the action is inflicted upon the performer.


----------



## Duya

It's realy a huge topic; se/się/ся in both Slavic and Romance languages is ubiquitous and has a wide range of uses (and I was surprised by the amount of matching uses and syntax across different language groups myself). Check out the Wikipedia article on reflexive verb (largely written by myself, eh ) and the references therein; the article by Rivero/Shepard is an interesting reading.

While we're at it, is there a *reflexive *Polish verb meaning "to repent" or "to regret" (Russian "_раская__ть__ся_")? The table in the article uses non-reflexive_ żałowaċ_, which spoils the example.


----------



## Thomas1

Hi,

The verb żałować exists too as a reflexive verb, but its meaning is different. 
_Żałować się_ means to have pity on someone.

As for repent/regret I can't think of any reflexive verb.

Tom


----------



## Marga H

Hi Duya,
There is also the reflexive verb *żalić się* but it means to complain. ( despite that the noun *żal* means regret ) In your table it could be instead of _skarży się._


----------



## Marga H

Thomas1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The verb żałować exists too as a reflexive verb, but its meaning is different.
> _Żałować się_ means to have pity on someone.? you mean on oneself
> , I suppose.
> 
> As for repent/regret I can't think of any reflexive verb.
> 
> Tom


----------



## tkekte

Duya said:


> Check out the Wikipedia article on reflexive verb (largely written by myself, eh )


Duya, that's awesome work.  I think there is a little mistake in the "reciprocal" table though (I don't know if you made it or someone else, just pointing out).

_Russian	Мария и Пётр целуются.	Мария целуeт П*ё*трa._

The name Piotr in the accusative case should be _Pietra_, the _ё_ drops back to _e_. 

I am not entirely sure though, so I didn't edit. 
Let's wait for someone more educated than me to confirm/deny...


----------



## Thomas1

Marga H said:
			
		

> me :)  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The verb żałować exists too as a reflexive verb, but its meaning is different.
> _Żałować się_ means to have pity on someone.? you mean on oneself
> , I suppose.
> 
> As for repent/regret I can't think of any reflexive verb.
> 
> Tom
Click to expand...

To me it is quite normal to say _żałować się kogoś_, isn't it so to you?

Tom


----------



## Marga H

Thomas1 said:


> To me it is quite normal to say _żałować się kogoś_, isn't it so to you?
> 
> Tom


Przyznam, że pierwszy raz się z tym określeniem spotkałam, więc, jak często mówią na Forum, zakończę dzisiejszy dzień mądrzejsza.


----------



## Thomas1

Ja też, bo nie słyszałem z kolei _żałować się_ używanego w znaczeniu dosłownym. 

Być może _żałować się kogoś_ jest charakterystyczne dla regionu w którym mieszkam. 

Z ciekawości, jak byś powiedziała coś takiego "po swojemu":
_Nie będę się Ciebie żałował._

Tom


----------



## Marga H

Thomas1 said:


> Ja też, bo nie słyszałem z kolei _żałować się_ używanego w znaczeniu dosłownym.  Też nie polecam, ale już prędzej mogłam sobie wyobrazić, że ktoś żałuje siebie (raczej niż się) niż kogoś.
> 
> 
> Być może _żałować się kogoś_ jest charakterystyczne dla regionu w którym mieszkam.
> 
> Z ciekawości, jak byś powiedziała coś takiego "po swojemu":
> _Nie będę się Ciebie żałował. _Nie będę się nad Tobą użalał. albo Nie będę się nad Tobą litował.
> 
> Tom


----------



## dn88

Thomas1 said:


> Ja też, bo nie słyszałem z kolei _żałować się_ używanego w znaczeniu dosłownym.
> 
> Być może _żałować się kogoś_ jest charakterystyczne dla regionu w którym mieszkam.
> 
> Z ciekawości, jak byś powiedziała coś takiego "po swojemu":
> _Nie będę się Ciebie żałował._
> 
> Tom



Very honestly, if someone said _"__Nie będę się Ciebie żałował." _to me, I wouldn't understand that at all (unless there is some more context around, so that I can guess the intended meaning). Out of context and as such, the sentence makes no sense whatsoever to me. 

dn88


----------



## Duya

So, how is it said in Polish when one goes to Church and repents for the sins?


----------



## Thomas1

dn88 said:


> Very honestly, if someone said _"__Nie będę się Ciebie żałował." _to me, I wouldn't understand that at all (unless there is some more context around, so that I can guess the intended meaning). Out of context and as such, the sentence makes no sense whatsoever to me.
> 
> dn88


Well, it must be regional then, it's very meaningful up here. 


Duya said:


> So, how is it said in Polish when one goes to Church and repents for the sins?


If I remember well it's _Żałuj za grzechy._


Tom


----------



## tkekte

Thomas didn't repent for a while, it seems.


----------

