# Partitiv plural



## prf112

I find building plurals of partitiv, genetiv, as well as sometimes both stems quite troublesome. There doesnt to be a standart way as every website comes with its own different approach and grouplings of exceptions. This seems to be very irregular and random at times. Sometimes an n turns to m, somtimes s dissapears. Also when reverse gradation takes place.

Any insights will be very appreciated.

Danke im Voraus.


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## Mats Norberg

prf112 said:


> I find building plurals of partitiv, genetiv, as well as sometimes both stems quite troublesome. There doesnt to be a standart way as every website comes with its own different approach and grouplings of exceptions. This seems to be very irregular and random at times. Sometimes an n turns to m, somtimes s dissapears. Also when reverse gradation takes place.
> 
> Any insights will be very appreciated.
> 
> Danke im Voraus.



Finnish words belong to different inflection classes. You need to know which inflection class a certain word belongs and the inflection table for that specific class. The Wiktionary cite has inflection templates for every class and is probably were you should start. The templates have to be learned by rote. It's enough to learn the nominative, genitive and partitive cases for each class because the other cases can be deeived from them. Each inflexion "matrix" has thus 6 entries (one of them is the ground form). Some examples:

(In the tables first row is nominative, second genitive and third partitive. First column singular second plural).

The koira-class:
------------------
koira      koirat
koiran    koirien
koiraa    koiria

The kala-class
----------------
kala       kalat
kalan     kalojen
kalaa     kaloja

The tunti-class
----------------
tunti      tunnit
tunnin   tuntien
tuntia    tunteja

The kivi-class
-----------------
kivi        kivet
kiven     kivien
kiveä     kiviä

The pieni-class
-----------------
pieni      pienet
pienen   pienten
pientä    pieniä

The käsi-class
----------------
käsi       kädet
käden    käsien
kättä     käsiä

The kynsi-class
------------------
kynsi     kynnet
kynnen  kynsien
kynttä   kynsiä

The valo-class
-----------------
valo      valot
valon    valojen
valoa    valoja


The mansikka-class
----------------------
mansikka       mansikat
mansikan       mansikoiden
mansikkaa     mansikoita


The ohut-class
-------------------------------------------
ohut       ohuet            lyhyt    lyhyet
ohuen     ohuiden        lyhyen  lyhyiden
ohutta     ohuita          lyhyttä  lyhyitä


The kysymys-class
----------------------------
kysymys           kysymykset
kysymyksen      kysymysten
kysymystä        kysymyksiä

The vieras-class
---------------------------------
Vieras        vieraat
vieraan      vieraiden
vierasta     vieraita


The lapsuus-class
---------------------
lapsuus        lapsuudet
lapsuuden    lapsuuksien
lapsuutta     lapsuuksia

The vene-class
-------------------------
vene        veneet
veneen    veneiden
venettä    veneitä

The poljin-class
----------------------
poljin       polkimet
polkimen polkimien
poljinta   polkimia

The sisar-class
-------------------
sisar        sisaret        jäsen        jäsenet         sävel       sävelet
sisaren    sisarien       jäsenen    jäsenien        sävelen    sävelien
sisarta     sisaria         jäsentä    jäseniä          säveltä     säveliä

The korkea-class
-------------------
korkea        korkeat
korkean      korkeiden
korkeaa      korkeita

The other plural case forms inherit their stem from the partitive. (j transforms to i)

koiria:  koiria, koirissa, koirista, koirilla etc.
kala:    kaloja, kaloissa, kaloista, kaloilla etc.
valo:    valoja, valoissa, valoilla, …
maa:    maita, maissa, mailla, maihin

kysymys:  kysymyksiä, kysymyksissä, kysymyksistä, kysymyksiin, kysymyksillä etc.

taivas:      taivaita, taivaissa, taivaisiin, taivailla, etc.

tarjotin:    tarjottimia, tarjottimissa, tarjottimista, tarjottimiin, tarjottimilla, …

sisar:       sisaria, sisarissa, sisarista, sisarilla, …

lapsuus:  lapsuuksia, lapsuuksissa, lapsuuksilta, …



There are more. You need to consult a grammar book or carefully study the wiktionary cite and memorize all these tables by rote. Also note that many pronouns have their own irregular inflection (minä, minut, minun, minua, …  se, sen, sitä, … jokin, jonkin, jotakin, jossakin … ).

Mats


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## prf112

Mats Norberg said:


> Finnish words belong to different inflection classes. You need to know which inflection class a certain word belongs and the inflection table for that specific class. The Wiktionary cite has inflection templates for every class and is probably were you should start. The templates have to be learned by rote. It's enough to learn the nominative, genitive and partitive cases for each class because the other cases can be deeived from them. Each inflexion "matrix" has thus 6 entries (one of them is the ground form). Some examples:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are more. You need to consult a grammar book or carefully study the wiktionary cite and memorize all these tables by rote. Also note that many pronouns have their own irregular inflection (minä, minut, minun, minua, …  se, sen, sitä, … jokin, jonkin, jotakin, jossakin … ).
> 
> Mats



So how should one go about and learn by heart the noun inflection of new vocabulary? As i understand one need to memorize 20+ kotus groups for most entries, and only then being able to note to which group each new noun belong to. sounds li,e quite a lot of remembering. 25*7 is much greater then 12*12 for slovak noun declention.
Also, when exactly does inverse gradation used?


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## Gavril

prf112 said:


> So how should one go about and learn by heart the noun inflection of new vocabulary? As i understand one need to memorize 20+ kotus groups for most entries, and only then being able to note to which group each new noun belong to. sounds li,e quite a lot of remembering. 25*7 is much greater then 12*12 for slovak noun declention.



As someone who's been studying Finnish for over a decade, my suggestion for those who are worried about not being able to precisely memorize declensional tables in Finnish is: don't worry too much about it.

I don't mean that you should abandon all concern for this topic, but I'd suggest not worrying so much about it that it saps your energies for other important aspects of learning Finnish, such as basic vocabulary building, and learning the actual semantics of the cases that these intricate inflectional suffixes express.

The partitive plural is actually a great example here: there are major aspects of its semantics that textbooks won't necessarily make clear -- such as its relationship to indefiniteness -- and that learners can miss, at least to some extent, if they devote too much time to getting its form exactly right.

I don't know what your approach to learning Finnish has been like, or how applicable this post is to your situation, but based on my experience with the way Finnish is often taught and discussed by learners, I thought that all of this was worth saying regardless.


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## Mats Norberg

Gavril said:


> As someone who's been studying Finnish for over a decade, my suggestion for those who are worried about not being able to precisely memorize declensional tables in Finnish is: don't worry too much about it.
> 
> I don't mean that you should abandon all concern for this topic, but I'd suggest not worrying so much about it that it saps your energies for other important aspects of learning Finnish, such as basic vocabulary building, and learning the actual semantics of the cases that these intricate inflectional suffixes express.
> 
> The partitive plural is actually a great example here: there are major aspects of its semantics that textbooks won't necessarily make clear -- such as its relationship to indefiniteness -- and that learners can miss, at least to some extent, if they devote too much time to getting its form exactly right.
> 
> I don't know what your approach to learning Finnish has been like, or how applicable this post is to your situation, but based on my experience with the way Finnish is often taught and discussed by learners, I thought that all of this was worth saying regardless.





prf112 said:


> I find building plurals of partitiv, genetiv, as well as sometimes both stems quite troublesome. There doesnt to be a standart way as every website comes with its own different approach and grouplings of exceptions. This seems to be very irregular and random at times. Sometimes an n turns to m, somtimes s dissapears. Also when reverse gradation takes place.
> 
> Any insights will be very appreciated.
> 
> Danke im Voraus.


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## Määränpää

prf112 said:


> Also, when exactly does inverse gradation used?


In many nouns that end with -e, -in, -as or -äs. For example:

rae - rakeen
hälytin - hälyttimen
keidas - keitaan
seiväs - seipään (but taivas - taivaan)


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## Ansku89

Gavril said:


> As someone who's been studying Finnish for over a decade, my suggestion for those who are worried about not being able to precisely memorize declensional tables in Finnish is: don't worry too much about it.
> 
> I don't mean that you should abandon all concern for this topic, but I'd suggest not worrying so much about it that it saps your energies for other important aspects of learning Finnish, such as basic vocabulary building, and learning the actual semantics of the cases that these intricate inflectional suffixes express.
> 
> The partitive plural is actually a great example here: there are major aspects of its semantics that textbooks won't necessarily make clear -- such as its relationship to indefiniteness -- and that learners can miss, at least to some extent, if they devote too much time to getting its form exactly right.
> 
> I don't know what your approach to learning Finnish has been like, or how applicable this post is to your situation, but based on my experience with the way Finnish is often taught and discussed by learners, I thought that all of this was worth saying regardless.


I agree completely. As a native speaker I can say I don't always get all declensions right either.


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