# Idiom: handsome is as handsome does



## titan2

Does the expression "handsome is as handsome does" mean "actions speak louder than words"?


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## GenJen54

No. I say that, but I certainly cannot make the correlation between the two. Perhaps someone else can.

"Actions speak louder than words" means exactly what it says, that the way one acts or behaves speaks much more loudly than what they say.

"Handsome is as handsome does" is another variant on "X is as X does." There are several of these expressions out there. All mean to perpetuate a stereotype of whatever x may be. 

In this case, one has to assume that there are certain actions someone who is handsome *always *makes. As such, he becomes an example of how he acts.

In this sense, "handsome's" actions may very well speak more about him that do his words, however, the two idioms remain unrelated.


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## languageGuy

I totally agree with GenJen, but there may be a slight correlation, if you try hard to find one.

You could say the "handsome is as handsome does" means that handsome guys just stand around and look handsome.  They don't actually do anything useful, just primp, preen and pose.

So their actions (or lack of) speak louder than their words (or looks).

Of course, as usual, it all depends on the context.


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## la reine victoria

You will find this previous thread very helpful Titan2.




Regards,
LRV


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## Kelly B

I do think that they are similar. They both emphasize the importance of someone's behavior in assessing his character. In the first, behavior is more important than looks; in the second, behavior is more important than talk.

Both of them can be used as criticisms:

You think he is great because he looks like a movie star, but his behavior doesn't match up to his looks. 

You think he his making a difference in the world with his fancy speeches, but his behavior doesn't match his words.

Admiring him, in either case, shows bad judgment. 
Of course, if _you _are the handsome person, or the one who makes fine speeches, they mean that _you _should change your behavior to show what is important.


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## maybe4ever

ive never heard of that saying.

ive heard of, stupid is as stupid does.
which i think came from forrest gump.

i cant see much of a corellation, between those saying and actions speak louder than words really


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## psicutrinius

Couldn't it be that the underlying idea is something like "If it works handsomely (or, let's say, correctly, or perfectly), then it is even handsome, no matter how ugly or weird it might look"?


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## TrentinaNE

maybe4ever said:
			
		

> ive never heard of that saying.
> 
> ive heard of, stupid is as stupid does.
> which i think came from forrest gump.
> 
> i cant see much of a corellation, between those saying and actions speak louder than words really


Have you heard of the saying "Capitalization and punctuation count"?   

Elizabeth


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## PaigeS

I've always understood the phrase "Handsome is as handsome does" to mean that being handsome is not much good for anything other than being handsome.  It has no intrinsic value.  Being handsome doesn't automatically make you a good or worthy person. It would be the same for "stupid is as stupid does," in that being stupid doesn't make you a bad or worthless person.


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## tui

I take this to mean, what a person is is what a person does. Someone may be handsome but what they actually are is what they do not how they appear. I suppose it's a reminder that looks aren't everything or perhaps that actions do not rely on other qualities for their measure.


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## Aardvark01

The phrase is used in J.R.R.Tolkein's Lord of the Rings. When Frodo first encounters Strider (the king to be) he doesn't know who or what he is, but says that an enemy would 'seem fairer and feel fouler', then Pippin says 'Handsome is as handsome does.'
 In this context it means that it's not the outward appearance that counts. Indeed, the handsome tend to get away with bad behaviour more, but anyone can behave handsomely.

This wisdom is older than the English language in which it is here couched. A Hebrew prophecy about the Messiah states that:

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, 
       nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 
 3 He was despised and rejected by men, 
       a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering... Isaiah 53 

Also we have the sayings of Jesus: 
'beware of wolves in sheep's clothing' and 'judge a tree by it's fruit'
meaning to beware of what people look like and assess their actions.


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## winklepicker

Aardvark01 said:


> sayings of Jesus: ... 'judge a tree by it's fruit'



I don't believe Jesus put in the greengrocer's apostrophe. 

My interpretation of this phrase has always been to do with looks versus money. A handsome face is being compared to a handsome payment. 

However nice Mr Snooks may look, he's no use to you unless he can keep you in the manner to which you've become accustomed.


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## JamesM

tui said:


> I take this to mean, what a person is is what a person does. Someone may be handsome but what they actually are is what they do not how they appear. I suppose it's a reminder that looks aren't everything or perhaps that actions do not rely on other qualities for their measure.


 
This has always been my understanding of the phrase. In other words, a handsome person is someone who behaves with "handsome" manners or behavior, not someone who has atrocious behavior but great looks. I've never associated it with money or payment in any way. In my mind it's closely associated with "You can't judge a book by its cover."


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## Aardvark01

I looked it up and you're correct. But why should it be the sheep's wool but not the tree's fruit? ?

I agree that the phrase in question is mutable in different context, quoted by someone with their hand or tin held out for money it's clearly meant as 'gimme'. Doesn't that make it a phatic (as opposed to an emphatic) statement?


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## KHS

Another similar expression is "beauty is only skin deep," again with the idea that the true worth of things should not be judged by aspects that are superficial.


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## Aardvark01

sounds right


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## JamesM

Aardvark01 said:


> I looked it up and you're correct. But why should it be the sheep's wool but not the tree's fruit? ?


 
If you're referring to the "greengrocer's apostrophe", the issue is that "the tree's fruit" is a correct indication of possession, and so is "its fruit" (no apostrophe). "It's fruit" means "it is fruit". The third person singular possessive pronouns are "his, her, its". It's a common mistake. 

If you mean "why does a wolf in sheep's clothing apply, but not a tree's fruit", I personally think that judging a tree by its fruits is a much closer match to "handsome is as handsome does" than "beware of wolves in sheep's clothing." A handsome-looking person is not necessarily intending to deceive with his looks; a wolf in sheep's clothing is. It is our practice of evaluating his character based on his looks that is being cautioned against in "handsome is as handsome does", in my opinion.


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## Nymeria

I always interpreted that saying in a completely different way to all of you!

It's hard to explain, but the term "self-defining" comes to mind. Say for example "beauty is as beauty does." I took that to mean that if Mary is beautiful, the acts that Mary does and the qualities that she has will be beautiful as well. On the flip side, the acts that Mary does and the qualities she has will be considered beautiful because she has already been classified as a beautiful person - a self-fulfilling prophecy. So basically, we define "beauty" based on the acts of someone that we consider beautiful, and we consider someone beautiful if they perform beautiful acts...

Maybe, I need to lay off the Plato...


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## JamesM

To me that would be "handsome is whatever handsome does" which has quite a different meaning to me than "handsome is _as_ handsome does."  One implies that whatever a handsome-looking person does is handsome, while the other implies that handsome should be judged by actions, not appearance.


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## Nymeria

JamesM said:


> To me that would be "handsome is whatever handsome does" which has quite a different meaning to me than "handsome is _as_ handsome does."  One implies that whatever a handsome-looking person does is handsome, while the other implies that handsome should be judged by actions, not appearance.



I think that depends on how you interpret the meaning of the word 'as'. In some contexts, it can have a similar meaning to 'whatever'.

Mary is a lovely child. She does _as _she is told.
Mary is a lovely child. She does _whatever _she is told.

I would venture that the second sentence is stronger since it implies that Mary will do virtually _anything _you tell her to do. The first one means that, generally speaking, Mary is obedient. Hence they do not mean exactly the same thing.

I do think, however, that the words 'as' and 'whatever' have close enough meanings in that context for you to get the general idea about Mary's demeanour.

Perhaps my mind highlighted the similarities between "as" and "whatever" when interpreting the idiom.


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## JamesM

Nymeria said:


> I think that depends on how you interpret the meaning of the word 'as'.


 
In other words, "it depends on what your definition of 'as' is." 

Sorry... presidential joke... couldn't help it.


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## Loob

JamesM said:


> In other words, "it depends on what your definition of 'as' is."
> 
> Sorry... presidential joke... couldn't help it.


James, you've lost me completely

Scrabbling desperately to stay on topic: "handsome is as handsome does" to me means "good looks aren't everything".


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## Aardvark01

Hi Nymeria,
I think your understanding is a valid point. I've met people who I've thought unattractive but ended up coming to see them as attractive because of how they are. However, I've had to learn NOT to attribute their qualities to others whose looks remind me of them. That's where I have to remind myself that handsome is as handsome does. It would appear to go in a cycle between the old friend's handsome deeds and learning to recognise the beauty in the new friend whose strengths and weaknesses are quite different.

JamesM,
It seems that there can be a causal link between beautiful deeds and perceiving someone as physically beautiful. Not invariably, I admit, but there are times when the distinction between cause and effect gets blurred in the mind.


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## winklepicker

Here's an early version from Chaucer:

_"he is gentil that dooth gentil dedis." _
(He is noble who does noble deeds).

This supports the good deeds theory and blows my looks vs money idea clean out of the water.  I subside accordingly.


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## kalamazoo

Wow, there are so many different interpretations here that it seems it would be best to avoid this expression altogether.  I have always interpreted it to mean that it doesn't matter what someone looks like, it matters how they behave. Someone shouldn't be considered handsome unless they behave well ("handsomely") , no matter how good they look.  So I think I am agreeing with James M.

I don't think the expression is intended to be something negative about handsome people in general. It just means that how you behave is important, not how you look.


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## Aardvark01

winklepicker,
 Your Chaucer quote sheds light on the origins of the aphorism's intended meaning, but it does not follow that it is, or that it should only be used in this emphatic sense.
 The picture of a cheeky begger saying it with his hand out works in the manner you initially elaborated as a phatic statement, inducing the mark to part with his money.


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## JamesM

I don't think that's a proper use of "phatic", Aardvark01. As far as I know, a phatic statement is something like "How are you doing?" or "Nice weather we're having!" It is a purely social ritual. It doesn't contain information or attempt to change another person's behavior. It simply establishes a background for communication through ritual remarks. What you are talking about is a persuasive statement, not a phatic statement, as far as I can tell.

I may be wrong about the meaning of "phatic." Feel free to enlighten me.


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## WordLoss

This is a very interesting discussion.

To my mind, the phrase under discussion has very much to do with appearance in contrast to substance, and the subjective shift in perceived appearance that can occur when substance is consonant with appearance as opposed to being in opposition to appearance.

Thus a handsome appearance accompanied by a crude, grasping, selfish, dishonest or groveling nature, would not appear handsome for long. In fact the dissonance between appearance and behavior would likely affect the mind such that the attribute of handsomeness would not be perceived less as a virtue than as a vice.

On the other hand if a handsome appearance were accompanied (reinforced?) by a truthful, generous, skillful, gracious, charitable and dignified nature, the mind would tend to perceive that person as 'truly handsome'.

It is amazing how much wisdom can be packed into an aphorism.

Regards,

-WordLoss


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## kavala76

My uncle's mother used this phrase regularly, but delivered it in her strong Cornish accent "'ansome is as 'ansome does". 

She used the word "handsome" as much for things as for people. "That's 'ansome" meant "That's good" or "I am really pleased with that". Of course she used it for people too as in "Thank you, my 'ansome" but it had nothing to do with looks or appearance, it was just an affectionate appellation.

Given my experience of her usage of this phrase I always took her to mean "I will judge you (to be good or otherwise) by what you do (not by what you say or what I've heard)". In this respect it is akin to "Judge a tree by its fruit".

Glad to be able to add to the confusion...


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## Packard

An older definition for handsome was "chivalrous" and I believe that is the meaning that is intended for this saying.


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## Aardvark01

Packard said:


> An older definition for handsome was "chivalrous" and I believe that is the meaning that is intended for this saying.


I'd agree with this use of "handsome" the second time in the saying but not the first:
handsome *is* as handsome *does*
The initial "handsome" points simply to the beauty of outward appearances, as in the physical proportions of hand to face (which gives us the word hand-some) while chivalry, on the other hand, points to the proper behaviour for boy racers (from Norman French 'cheveau' = horse) who otherwise would have gone around making a nuisance of themselves. The saying relies on a play between these two concepts of hansome.

I think the verbs (*be* and *do*) make all the difference. One's true nature (one's 'being'/what you 'are') is not defined by merely looking good but by what you do with what you have; actually doing the chivalrous/boy scout/good thing.


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## Packard

Aardvark01 said:


> I'd agree with this use of "handsome" the second time in the saying but not the first:
> handsome *is* as handsome *does*
> The initial "handsome" points simply to the beauty of outward appearances, as in the physical proportions of hand to face (which gives us the word hand-some) while chivalry, on the other hand, points to the proper behaviour for boy racers (from Norman French 'cheveau' = horse) who otherwise would have gone around making a nuisance of themselves. The saying relies on a play between these two concepts of hansome.
> 
> I think the verbs (*be* and *do*) make all the difference. One's true nature (one's 'being'/what you 'are') is not defined by merely looking good but by what you do with what you have; actually doing the chivalrous/boy scout/good thing.


 
So you think the meaning is:  *He is only as good looking as his deeds are proper* [chivalrous].

This seems a reasonable interpretation, but by no means the only one.


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## Aardvark01

Packard said:


> So you think the meaning is: *He is only as good looking as his deeds are proper* [chivalrous].
> 
> This seems a reasonable interpretation, but by no means the only one.


Not quite the way I'd put it as I understand that people can be considered good looking *without* being good by nature. There is a human tendency to defer to handsome leaders, turning a blind eye to their faults. I know I've been taken in/dazzled this way myself as I've mentioned in a previous post here, but some other illustrations also come to mind:

1/ in the Biblical story of Israel's first king, Saul, he is described as both tall and handsome yet behaves erratically and meets a bad end. 

2/ in Tolkein's Lord of the Rings the hobbits do not consider Strider much to look at but, being more shrewd than the folks of the Old Testament and myself, they quickly deduce that were Strider evil he would "look fairer but seem fouler".

3/ the old meaning (and an aspect of the present meaning) of 'glamour' as a kind of spell which disguises the nature of the person who casts it.


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## salai

Hello,

Could you please explain the meaning of the sentence: 'Handsome is as handsome does.' This is a passage from the book The Runaway by Martina Cole:
The three men behind him were all big too and all muscle-bound. But as Gates always said: Handsome is as handsome does. Some of the most muscle-bound men he had known were as weak as kittens. 

Thank you in advance.


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## SunnyS

Ah, nice.

It means that personality and inner strength (and other non-appearance  related aspects) are what really prevails when we evaluate a person (or man, in this case).

So Gates sees three big guys, but he thinks to himself that maybe inside they are weak (cowards, wishy-washy, timid, etc.), betraying their strong appearance.

In other words, behavior and inner strength speak louder than looks.


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## Salvage

The idea is also expressed by the maxim "Actions speaks louder than words".  

What people do is more significant, more defining of their nature, than what they claim the can do, than what it is rumored that they do, or than what it may appear that they can do.


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## SunnyS

Salvage said:


> *The idea* is also expressed by the maxim "Actions speaks louder than words".
> 
> What people do is more significant, more defining of their nature, than what they claim the can do, than what it is rumored that they do, or than what it may appear that they can do.



Except that your comment could be misinterpreted. The quotation in the OP's question does not equal the idea of "Actions speaks louder than words".  Words and looks are completely different things.


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## salai

The meaning of the expression is more or less clear to me, but will it be OK to use this expression in the following situation:
I am about to give a quiz or a test to my students and one of them, quite a strong student, brags about passing it hands down. My answer is handsome is as handsome does.
I do know the other expression mentioned in the discussion - words speak louder than words, just being curious about handsome is as handsome does.

Thank you in advance.


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## JamesM

Yes, I would consider that a normal use of the expression.  It means "no matter how good you look, if your behavior is ugly it will outweigh your looks in people's minds".


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## mattdeany

"Handsome is as handsome does," simply means that people's actions are more attractive than their looks, "when all is said and done." If someone says that this idea produces a prejudicial idea of what good behaviour is, the appropriate reply should surely be, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."


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## velisarius

salai said:


> I am about to give a quiz or a test to my students and one of them, quite a strong student, brags about passing it hands down. My answer is handsome is as handsome does.



I wouldn't have used the saying in that context. I hear it being used as a cynical put-down, when someone else is being praised for their physical attractiveness: "Okay, so she's very beautiful, but that doesn't impress me a great deal. Let's see what she's capable of doing. I'm more interested in her actions than in her physical appearance."


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