# To fall for a trick



## Andrew___

Does anyone know how one expresses the idea in MSA of "_falling_ (victim) to a trick".

For example, if one says to a person tries to trick you into walking on a slippery surface, then other says: "Nice try!  I will not fall for that trick!"

In the past I have said "hadhihi Hiilatun kabiiratun jiddan!" with an appropriate tone, but I would like to better express this idea.


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## Mahaodeh

I think this might be a borrowing from collequal, but I would use

هذه الحيلة لن تعبر علينا
عبرت عليهم الحيلة


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## Andrew___

Mahaodeh said:


> هذه الحيلة لن تعبر علينا



Thanks Maha.  Would I pronounce this sentence: _"hadhihil 7iilatu lan ta3buru 3alayna"_

(As a note to myself, I can't remember whether _lan_ is like _lam_ in that it requires a sukuun at the end of the verb it modifies.  If my memory serves me correctly it is different from _lam_ in this respect.  I have an image in my mind of لم as a control freak - it likes to control the word following it by forcing the مجزوم and also forcing سكون.  Whereas لن is much more polite.


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## elroy

Al Sulhafa said:


> _"haadhihil 7iilatu lan ta3bura 3alayna"_





> (As a note to myself, I can't remember whether _lan_ is like _lam_ in that it requires a sukuun at the end of the verb it modifies.  If my memory serves me correctly it is different from _lam_ in this respect.


 You are right; it is different from _lam_.  However, it is not entirely non-intrusive.  It has the same effect that _an_ has on a verb.  It makes it manSuub! 





> I have an image in my mind of لم as a control freak - it likes to control the word following it by forcing the مجزوم and also forcing سكون.  Whereas لن is much more polite.


  As you can see, لن isn't as innocent as it may like you to believe.


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## Andrew___

elroy said:


> As you can see, لن isn't as innocent as it may like you to believe.



Nice point! In relation to this trick of لن,  I wish I could say هذه الحيلة لم تعبرعلي , but I admit that لن fooled me on this one. 

And in fairness to لم, I must also acknowledge that لم is at least honest by admitting the mistakes and omissions of the past, whereas لن is altogether pessimistic about the future. Such constant negativity can get you down sometimes


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## ayed

> Al SulhafaNice point! In relation to this trick of لن, I wish I could say هذه الحيلة لم تعبرعلي , but I admit that لن fooled me on this one.


لم is used with past tense 


> And in fairness to لم, I must also acknowledge that لم is at least honest by admitting the mistakes and omissions of the past, whereas لن is altogether pessimistic about the future. Such constant negativity can get you down sometimes


if you would like to be more precise and pickey:
*لن* is used with future
*لا* is used with near future as in your case being discussed.
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You can say it in a different way:
*لا أقع ضحية هذه الخدعة/الفخ*


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## elroy

If you want to be even more picky , all three are used with the _present tense_, but they differ in the effect they have on the tense.  _Lam_ makes it past, _lan_ makes it future, and _laa_ does not change the tense.


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## Xence

Al Sulhafa said:


> Does anyone know how one expresses the idea in MSA of "_falling_ (victim) to a trick".
> 
> For example, if one says to a person tries to trick you into walking on a slippery surface, then other says: "Nice try! I will not fall for that trick!"
> 
> In the past I have said "hadhihi Hiilatun kabiiratun jiddan!" with an appropriate tone, but I would like to better express this idea.


 
A more common phrase in MSA is:

لن تنطلي علي هذه الحيلة
_lan tanTaliya 3aliyya haadhihi (a)l7iila(tu)_


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## cherine

Xence said:


> A more common phrase in MSA is:
> 
> لن تنطلي علي هذه الحيلة
> _lan tanTaliya 3aliyya haadhihi (a)l7iila(tu)_


That's what I was going to write 
تنطلي الحيلة/الخدعة على شخص means that it works, note that the 7iila is the فاعل in this structure, unlike the English expression.

You say:
انطلت عليه الخدعة inTalat 3alayhi 'l-khud3a
لم تنطَلِ عليه الخدعة lam tanTali ...


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## clevermizo

I don't know in MSA but plenty of folks have answered. I do however, know this expression: أكل المقلب _akal il-ma2lab_ which I believe means to fall for a trick/gag.


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## the-quality-man-4

Al Sulhafa said:


> Does anyone know how one expresses the idea in MSA of "_falling_ (victim) to a trick".
> 
> For example, if one says to a person tries to trick you into walking on a slippery surface, then other says: "Nice try! I will not fall for that trick!"
> 
> In the past I have said "hadhihi Hiilatun kabiiratun jiddan!" with an appropriate tone, but I would like to better express this idea.


why did you say "to fall for that trick and not fall into that trick?"


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## clevermizo

the-quality-man-4 said:


> why did you say "to fall for that trick and not fall into that trick?"




Because in English the idiom is "to fall for a trick."


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## cherine

clevermizo said:


> I don't know in MSA but plenty of folks have answered. I do however, know this expression: أكل المقلب _akal il-ma2lab_ which I believe means to fall for a trick/gag.


I believe this is shaami, right?

In Egypt we drink it  شرب المقلب sharab/shereb el ma2lab 

And there's also: khaalet 3aleh خالت عليه (I think the subject is "el 7ekaaya" or "el khed3a" or, the new word "el eshteghaala" الاشتغالة).
Using Andrew's words, I'd translate it as:
الكلام ده مايخيلش عليَّا
el kalaam dah maykhelsh 3alayya

And you can also say:
مش حتضحك عليا
mesh 7ateD7ak 3alayya


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## elroy

In Palestinian Arabic, we say _akal ma2lab_ but I've never heard it with a definite article.

_akal ma2lab _= He was fooled, tricked, duped.

He fell for the trick = _mishi 3alee 'l-ma2lab_

I won't fall for that (trick) = _mish ra7 timshi 3alay _[The subject would usually be an unspecified and implied _hiyye_.]


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## the-quality-man-4

thnx a lot celevermizo


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## Josh_

This is another one that gets me in Arabic as there seems to be many words and/or that give meanings of falling for a trick or not falling for a trick.



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> In Egypt we drink it  شرب المقلب sharab/shereb el ma2lab
> 
> And there's also: khaalet 3aleh خالت عليه (I think the subject is "el 7ekaaya" or "el khed3a" or, the new word "el eshteghaala" الاشتغالة).
> Using Andrew's words, I'd translate it as:
> الكلام ده مايخيلش عليَّا
> el kalaam dah maykhelsh 3alayya
> 
> And you can also say:
> مش حتضحك عليا
> mesh 7ateD7ak 3alayya


   I'm curious, how common is غفّل in Egyptian Arabic -- مش حتغلني , for example.

Also, I'd be interested in knowing what the most common phrase(s) is/are in Egyptian.  I imagine مش حتضحك عليا is up there.  That's the one I have gotten used to saying, anyway.


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## cherine

Josh_ said:


> I'm curious, how common is غفّل in Egyptian Arabic -- مش حتغلني , for example.


khally baalak, Josh, there's a difference between ghaffel and estaghfel:
ghaffel= it's like غدَر to attack someone from the back, to hit him -even if not from the back- when he wasn't expecting it, to steal from someone when he's not paying attention.

estaghfel استغفل is to treat someone as if he were a fool, to cheat or to trick someone.
استغفلوه في المحل وباعوله الحاجة بضعف تمنها
estaghfeluuh fel-ma7al we ba3uulo el-7aaga bDe3f tamanha
The word is on the wazn estaf3al استفعل and the root is غ-ف-ل to be غافل (not used in Egyptian but in fuS7a) means to be unaware (in the Qur'an: وما الله بغافل عما تعملون)
The Egyptian word for ghaafel (but with a stronger meaning) is moghaffal مغفل it can mean "idiot", "naive" ... according to context.
So, saying that someone is استغفل someone else, means that he was treating him as if he was moghaffal مغفل .

As I said before, the more "trendy" word these days is: eshtaghal. So, my previous sentence would go:
اشتغلوه في المحل...

A less "hurtful" word is ضحكوا عليه في المحل it doesn't mean "they laughed at him", but "they cheated him".



> Also, I'd be interested in knowing what the most common phrase(s) is/are in Egyptian. I imagine مش حتضحك عليا is up there. That's the one I have gotten used to saying, anyway.


Yes, مش حتضحك عليَّا is a very common expression. It's even a bit friendly if we compare it to مش حتسغفلني . Because, when I assume that you're trying to ted7ak 3alayya (something just for fun, between friends, or as a joke) is not like assuming you're trying ennak testaghfelni (which means you're thinking of me as a fool).
teshtaghalni is in betwee the two, and only context and tone can determine whether I'm telling you إنت بتشتغلني as a joke or as an offense.


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## Mr. Sun

Dear Cherine, if mughaffal is derived from taghfeel, doesn't it mean 'someone who has been made heedless (ghaafil)'?


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## Ali Smith

Mr. Sun said:


> Dear Cherine, if mughaffal is derived from taghfeel, doesn't it mean 'someone who has been made heedless (ghaafil)'?


That is, indeed, what it must have meant originally. However, in classical Arabic it means “a simpleton”.


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