# Рад (declension?)



## PorFavorDama

Hi everyone,

As always while I was studying Russian, "Dative Case" especially. I came across with this verb "Радоиаться/Обрадоваться". There was an example as follows :


> Все были рады солнечным дням.


So what I wonder is that couldn't we also say "Были радами" as far as I know that being happy or glad is a temporary situation, and in such situations we could use instrumental case instead.

For example :


> Я был тогда офицером.
> Он считался умным но мне он казался глупым.



I can't think of any other example but there was an example like "The show was really boring yesterday." and there we could also use instrumental too and here is my attempt for that sentence, please correct me if I am wrong . 


> Вчера выставка была очень скучной.



Thank you in advance!


----------



## Enquiring Mind

Hi PFD, рад exists only in the short form - more here (source: study-languages-online.com) and here (source: learningrussian.wordpress.com). It doesn't have a long form.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi PFD, рад exists only as a predicative adjective in the short form - more here (source: study-languages-online.com) and here (source: learningrussian.wordpress.com). It doesn't have a long form.



Oh sorry I didn't know that but in "Rhymes" app , as you may know which shows you the declension of words in Russian, showed me a noun as Рада(nominative,singular) when I typed "Рад" but then I realized these two were different but I don't know the difference. The translator says "happy" for both.


----------



## Enquiring Mind

As the app shows, рад is an adjective (прилагательное) which changes for gender and number, so рад (masculine singular), радa (feminine singular), радo (neuter singular) and рады (all genders plural). It doesn't have any other adjectival change of form.

Рада is a noun (существительное) and is mostly used in its technical meaning as the name of a Council in Ukraine.

I wouldn't advise using apps if you want to be serious about learning Russian. Follow a textbook or online websites. They teach in a structured way, and don't confuse learners.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Enquiring Mind said:


> As the app shows, рад is an adjective (прилагательное) which changes for gender and number, so рад (masculine singular), радa (feminine singular), радo (neuter singular) and рады (all genders plural). It doesn't have any other adjectival change of form.
> 
> Рада is a noun (существительное).
> 
> I wouldn't advise using apps if you want to be serious about learning Russian. Follow a textbook or online websites.



I already study from many books and websites but this app really helps me a lot to see declensions or even conjugations to decide which verb is imperfective or perfective and so far it was really good at it. So I use many sources and confirm every information from other different sources.

So let's say there was another adjective other than Рад for example, could we apply what I've just mentioned above? And the other example I wrote there, could you please check it? 

Thank you.


----------



## Enquiring Mind

Someone asked about this use of the predicative instrumental a little while ago here.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Enquiring Mind said:


> Someone asked about this use of the predicative instrumental a little while ago here.



Yea I know I asked that but I just wanted to know whether my sentences would be correct or not. Thank you!


----------



## Vovan

*PorFavorDama
*
"Рад" (masculine), "ра́да" (feminine), "ра́ды" (plural).

_А: "Я сдал экзамен!"  Б: "Рад за тебя!" _(I've passed the exam! Happy for you!)
_"Мы не рады вашему приходу! Уходите!" _(We're not happy that you've come. Go away!)
_"Смотри, ты довела её до слёз! Теперь ты рада?" _(Look! You've finally made her cry! Are you happy now?)
_"Рад познакомиться!"_ (Glad to meet you!)​"Ра́достный"

_"Вчера он был радостный, а сегодня ходит грустный."_ (Yesterday, he looked happy, but today, he's been looking sad.)​As Enquiring Mind has said, "рад" is a special shortened form of "ра́достный", and it can only be changed into "ра́да" and "ра́ды". "Ра́до" is also possible (e.g. "Общество не радо этой новой политике властей".).
The word is used as part of the complex predicate: a linking verb + this adjective. The typical phrases might include:
"рад (чему-то/кому-то)",
"рад (сделать что-то)",
"рад, что/когда/если...".​
​


> Вчера выставка была очень скучной.


_Но посетители музея всё равно казались радостными._ (seemed to look happy)
(Edited to sound OK.)​


> Я был тогда офицером.
> Он считался умным, но мне он казался глупым.



As for the instrumental case versus the nominative to discriminate between the permanent and the temporary, I advise not to think about that matter too much as the rule is an oversimplification. Go with the instrumental for the time being, and you'll be perfectly safe. 
But it is only my friendly advice, nothing more!

​


----------



## Maroseika

PorFavorDama said:


> So let's say there was another adjective other than Рад for example, could we apply what I've just mentioned above? And the other example I wrote there, could you please check it?


Short adjectives are not declined, they only have personal and number forms.



Enquiring Mind said:


> рад exists only in the short form ... It doesn't have a long form.



Just to add: full form of рад was радый, but it is obsolete and is substandard nowadays.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> *PorFavorDama*
> 
> As for the instrumental case versus the nominative to discriminate between the permanent and the temporary, I advise not to think about that matter too much as the rule is an oversimplification. Go with the instrumental for the time being, and you'll be perfectly safe.
> But it is only my friendly advice, nothing more!





Maroseika said:


> Short adjectives are not declined, they only have personal and number forms.



Actually, I didn't mean that. I meant if there was another adjective in long form. Thank you too! 



Maroseika said:


> Just to add: full form of рад was радый, but it is obsolete and is substandard nowadays.



Thank you so much for this very informative answer and also for correcting me! @Vovan 
So I don't want to be too much, with all due respect, but I just wanted to ask, you said the long form of Рад is "Радостьный" and @Maroseika said it is "Радый". If so, what about "Радостен/Радостна/Радостно or Радостны"?


----------



## Vovan

PorFavorDama said:


> I just wanted to ask, you said the long form of Рад is "Радостьный" and @Maroseika said it is "Радый". If so, what about "Радостен/Радостна/Радостно or Радостны"?


"Радостен" is a normal shortened form of "радостный".
"Рад" is a special shortened form of "радостный".

"Радый" is archaic, and most people do not know this word.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> "Радостен" is a normal shortened form of "радостный".
> "Рад" is a special shortened form of "радостный".
> 
> "Радый" is archaic, and most people do not know this word.



Thank you soooo much. You are great! You helped me a lot!


----------



## Vovan

*PorFavorDama*, you are welcome!


----------



## Rosett

Maroseika said:


> Short adjectives are not declined, they only have personal and number forms.
> Just to add: full form of рад was радый, but it is obsolete and is substandard nowadays.


While "радый" is no longer standard in Russian, "нерадый" is still around.
Short adjectives may decline in modern Russian, as well.


----------



## Maroseika

PorFavorDama said:


> I just wanted to ask, you said the long form of Рад is "Радостьный" and @Maroseika said it is "Радый". If so, what about "Радостен/Радостна/Радостно or Радостны"?



I'm afraid I cannot agree with *Vovan*. There are no "special" short or long forms, just some adjectives are used only in the short form (defective adjectives, so to say).
Semantically, рад is not the same as радостен, just as *радый was not the same as радостный. The difference is like between 'glad' and 'joyous'.
You can say он был рад, что..., but not он был радостен, что...


----------



## PorFavorDama

Maroseika said:


> I'm afraid I cannot agree with *Vovan*. There are no "special" short or long forms, just some adjectives are used only in the short form (defective adjectives, so to say).
> Semantically, рад is not the same as радостен, just as *радый was not the same as радостный. The difference is like between 'glad' and 'joyous'.
> You can say он был рад, что..., but not он был радостен, что...



So in that context, should we have said "Радостным" instead?


----------



## Vovan

On historical principles of linguistic analysis, "рад" is not a short form of "радостный".

On functional principles, it can be seen as a "special shortened form" in today's Russian.
What I meant by that is both morphological reduction and change in meaning.

About the difference in two approaches, see Wikipedia:


Spoiler



Synchronic and diachronic approaches can reach quite different conclusions. For example, a Germanic strong verb like English _sing - sang - sung_ is irregular when viewed synchronically: the native speaker's brain processes these as learned forms, whereas the derived forms of regular verbs are processed quite differently, by the application of productive rules (for example, adding _-ed_ to the basic form of a verb as in _walk - walked_). This is an insight of psycholinguistics, relevant also for language didactics, both of which are synchronic disciplines. However, a diachronic analysis will show that the strong verb is the remnant of a fully regular system of internal vowel changes, in this case, namely, the Indo-European ablaut; historical linguistics seldom uses the category "irregular verb".

Historical linguistics - Wikipedia



As "рад" is only used predicatively (i.e. a linking verb + "рад"), you should only keep in mind what "радостный/радостен" means when it is used predicatively.

Above, I gave a sentence with "радостный" as part of the complex predicate and translated the word into English as "looking happy".

(I'll try to write a complete dictionary entry of "радостный, радостен, рад" later in the day.)


----------



## Maroseika

PorFavorDama said:


> So in that context, should we have said "Радостным" instead?


No, you can't say Все были радостны солнечным дням. But you can say Все были радостны благодаря солнечным дням / из-за солнечных дней.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Maroseika said:


> No, you can't say Все были радостны солнечным дням. But you can say Все были радостны благодаря солнечным дням / из-за солнечных дней.



No I didn't mean my example. You'd used it in an example and I was talking about your example there. So could we use it there? (As you said we can't use Радостный there.)

*Он был радостным ... bla bla bla 
*
or is it even possible to create such a sentence which includes *Был/Была Радостным ?*


----------



## Maroseika

PorFavorDama said:


> So could we use it there? (As you said we can't use Радостный there.)
> 
> *Он был радостным ... bla bla bla
> *
> or is it even possible to create such a sentence which includes *Был/Была Радостным ?*


Sure, it is possible. День был радостным, настроение было радостным, девушка была радостной etc. However this means that something or somebody was joyful, cheerful or was in a good / cheerful mood,  in good spirits. (Formally, short forms can be used here too, but they would sound awkward).
In contrary, он рад (был рад, будет рад) always refers to or presums the object (чему именно он рад). And usually it is more formal and doesn't mean that somebody is really joyful:
Рад, что все кончилось хорошо.
Рад познакомиться.
Я уже был не рад, что затеял этот разговор.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Maroseika said:


> Sure, it is possible. День был радостным, настроение было радостным, девушка была радостной etc. However this means that something or somebody was joyful, cheerful or was in a good / cheerful mood,  in good spirits. (Formally, short forms can be used here too, but they would sound awkward).
> In contrary, он рад (был рад, будет рад) always refers to or presums the object (чему именно он рад). And usually it is more formal and doesn't mean that somebody is really joyful:
> Рад, что все кончилось хорошо.
> Рад познакомиться.
> Я уже был не рад, что затеял этот разговор.



Yes that is exactly what I was talking about. So to say, Радостный describes the quality of a noun (a person, a day and so on.) while Рад describes a temporary mood of a person (like being happy or sad and so on). Right?

Thank you!


----------



## Maroseika

PorFavorDama said:


> Yes that is exactly what I was talking about. So to say, Радостный describes the quality of a noun (a person, a day and so on.) while Рад describes the mood of a person (like being happy or sad and so on). Right?


Not exactly. Actually, the mood of a person is exactly the same as its quality (mood - just one of the qualities).
I think better to divide like this: радостный (being qualitative adjective - качественное прилагательное) describes the quality of the object. It has degrees of comparison: самый радостный, менее радостный.
Рад is is used only as a predicate, therefore there is always an object, referring to this predicate: рад чему-то.
Besides, рад is often (or maybe even mostly) used in the figurative sense, not presuming any joy. It rather means contentment, satisfaction, approval than real joyful mood.


----------



## PorFavorDama

Maroseika said:


> Not exactly. Actually, the mood of a person is exactly the same as its quality (mood - just one of the qualities).
> I think better to divide like this: радостный (being qualitative adjective - качественное прилагательное) describes the quality of the object. It has degrees of comparison: самый радостный, менее радостный.
> Рад is is used only as a predicate, therefore there is always an object, referring to this predicate: рад чему-то.
> Besides, рад is often (or maybe even mostly) used in the figurative sense, not presuming any joy. It rather means contentment, satisfaction, approval than real joyful mood.



But it is not always the same as its quality because "mood" is :
*1. *a *temporary* state of mind or temper: _a cheerful mood_.

Since it is temporary, it doesn't really describe a person's quality. Maybe, just for a certain duration.
As for the rest, I completely agree with you.


----------



## Vovan

*A permanent quality:*
_Он радостный человек._ (He is a cheerful person.)​*A temporary state:*
_Он был радостный, потому что узнал хорошую новость._ (He looked/felt happy because he had got some good news.)​
So, "радостный" can be used for both things.


*PorFavorDama,* do you still need me to write a full dictionary entry which is based on "рад" as a special shortened form of "радостный"? Or do you prefer to regard the two adjectives as separate, just as academic linguistics does?


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> *A permanent quality:*
> _Он радостный человек._ (He is a cheerful person.)​*A temporary state:*
> _Он был радостный, потому что узнал хорошую новость._ (He looked/felt happy because he had got some good news.)​
> So, "радостный" can be used for both things.
> 
> 
> *PorFavorDama,* do you still need me to write a full dictionary entry which is based on "рад" as a special shortened form of "радостный"? Or do you prefer to regard the two adjectives as separate, just as academic linguistics does?



Oh, this made everything clear. I didn't think of "Радостный" in such way, though, I was talking about "Рад" there. 
If you wouldn't mind, for sure, I would like to learn more about it.


----------



## Vovan

*Радостный:
*
1. (of a person's character; only in the full form) cheerful:
_Она очень радостный человек._
​2. (the short is *радостен*) causing joy or gladness (of an event, news, a day, etc.); expressing joy (of a face, a facial expression, etc.):

_Произошло радостное событие: в городе открылся новый питомник для собак и кошек.
А они в этот радостный (для всех) день поссорились друг с другом.
Их радостные лица вселяли некоторую надежду на то, что всё обошлось.
Радостные улыбки детей._​
3. (of emotions; the short forms are *радостен* and *рад*, the latter being only predicatively used) feeling/looking happy, feeling joy or gladness:

*рад (+инфинитив; +деепричастие, разг.; +придаточн. предл.),
рад (чему-либо, кому-либо):*
_А на глазах у него навернулась слеза: так рад он был видеть её среди гостей!
Я смотрю, ты мне совсем не рад. Мне уйти?
Она была рада, узнав правду.
Ты был рад, когда она предложила тебе встречаться?
Он был нескрываемо рад успехам своих детей._​*рад за (кого-либо, что-либо):*
_Я так рада за тебя, дай я тебя обниму!
_​_Он был очень радостный, потому что его пригласили участвовать в "Евровидении".
Его отношение к жизни радостно.
Она радостная из-за его прихода._​
4) (of an attitude, often formally; used only in the short predicative form *рад*) glad, happy, etc.

_Буду рад к вам присоединиться!
Я очень рад (тому), что наше сотрудничество продолжится.
Был рад познакомиться._​


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> *Радостный:
> *
> 1. (of a person's character; only in the full form) cheerful:
> _Она очень радостный человек._​



Thank you so much for this detailed information. I wrote them all down! 

Oh by the way I almost forgot, Why did you use "_Нескрываемо_" there ?
Isn't it for "средний род" ?



> _Он был нескрываемо рад успехам своих детей._


----------



## Vovan

PorFavorDama said:


> Why did you use "_Нескрываемо_" there ?
> Isn't it for "средний род" ?


It is an adverb here!


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> It is an adverb here!



Oh okay sorry now I got it.   Because dictionaries only show it as an adjective.
Thank you!


----------



## Vovan

It's synonymous to _"откровенно"_, *PorFavorDama*:

_откровенно/нескрываемо зол/бессовестен/корыстен/нежен/... _(whatever attitude/emotion people may hide; in the form of a short adjective)​


----------



## PorFavorDama

Vovan said:


> It's synonymous to _"откровенно"_, *PorFavorDama*:
> 
> _откровенно/нескрываемо зол/бессовестен/корыстен/нежен/... _(whatever attitude/emotion people may hide; in the form of a short adjective)​



Yes, that made everythinh so much more clear. 
Большое Спасибо!!!


----------

