# kung kung



## Qcumber

Hello! 
[I am not a native speaker of Tagalog, and the sentences below are mine.]

I suppose *kung kung* is regarded as awkward. How can it be avoided?
e.g.
1) matrix clause: Mas mabúti sána kung __________
= It would be better if ________________

2) embedded clause: kung ilán ang mga létra sa isáng páhiná ang bíbilángin mó at pagká iyán, mámáltiplayín ang búnga sa bílang ng mga páhiná.
= you counted [unreal present] how many letters there are in one page, and after that you multiplied [ditto] the result by the number of pages

3) resulting sentence:
*Más mabúti sána kung kung ilán ang mga létra sa isáng páhiná ang bíbilángin mó at pagká iyán, mámáltiplayín ang búnga sa bílang ng mga páhiná.*

I use *ay *to keep the second _kung_ separate from the first.

4) *Más mabúti sána kung ang bíbilángin mó ay kung ilán ang mga létra sa isáng páhiná at pagká iyán, mámáltiplayín ang búnga sa bílang ng mga páhiná.*
= ditto

My question: would native speakers of Tagalog transform (3) into (4) as I did or would they rephrase it differently?


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## lhanie

First Of All.. Using Mamaltiplyin Is A Wrong Word For Tagalog. It's Not Supposed To Use In That Sentence.. Mamaltiplyin Came From EngLISh Word To Multiply... The Correct Tagalog Term For That Is Dodoblehin..


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## moonshine

Sorry but no, _*dodoblehin *_means to _double_, not _multiply_. 
If you check a dictionary, the correct Tagalog term for multiply would be _*multiplikahin*_ or *paramihin*.

The use of *kung kung* is not proper, and yes it sounds awkward hehe 

*Sentence: It would be better if you counted how many letters there are on one page, and after that you multiplied the result by the number of pages.*

Translation: Mas mabuti kung binilang mo kung ilang letra ang nasa isang pahina, pagkatapos ay pinarami mo ito (referring to the number of letters) base sa bilang ng pahina.

Meaning: It would be better if you counted how many letters there are on a page, after that you multiplied it based on the number of pages.

or 

Mas mabuti kung binilang mo ang mga letra sa isang pahina at pinarami mo ito sa pamamagitan ng bilang ng pahina.

Meaning: It would be better if you counted the letters on a page and multiplied it using the number of pages.

also acceptable

Mas mabuti kung *bibilangin* mo ang mga letra sa isang pahina at *pararamihin* mo ito sa pamamagitan ng bilang ng pahina.

Meaning: It would be better if you *will count* the letters on a page and *will multiply* it using the number of pages. (using the future tense instead of the past tense, as though discussing a procedure before actually executing it).

_*Mas mabuti sana*_ would translate as _It would have been better_, like you're hoping the doer of the action had performed the task in a different way.

I hope that helps


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## Qcumber

lhanie said:


> First Of All.. Using Mamaltiplyin Is A Wrong Word For Tagalog. It's Not Supposed To Use In That Sentence.. Mamaltiplyin Came From EngLISh Word To Multiply... The Correct Tagalog Term For That Is Dodoblehin..


Perhaps you didn't notice this thread is on *kung kung*.
Mutiply is dealt with in another thread.


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## Qcumber

moonshine said:


> *Sentence: It would be better if you counted how many letters there are on one page, and after that you multiplied the result by the number of pages.*
> Translation: Mas mabuti kung binilang mo kung ilang letra ang nasa isang pahina, pagkatapos ay pinarami mo ito (referring to the number of letters) base sa bilang ng pahina.
> 
> Meaning: It would be better if you counted how many letters there are on a page, after that you multiplied it based on the number of pages.
> 
> or
> 
> Mas mabuti kung binilang mo ang mga letra sa isang pahina at pinarami mo ito sa pamamagitan ng bilang ng pahina.
> 
> Meaning: It would be better if you counted the letters on a page and multiplied it using the number of pages.
> 
> also acceptable
> 
> Mas mabuti kung *bibilangin* mo ang mga letra sa isang pahina at *pararamihin* mo ito sa pamamagitan ng bilang ng pahina.
> 
> Meaning: It would be better if you *will count* the letters on a page and *will multiply* it using the number of pages. (using the future tense instead of the past tense, as though discussing a procedure before actually executing it).
> 
> _*Mas mabuti sana*_ would translate as _It would have been better_, like you're hoping the doer of the action had performed the task in a different way.


a) So *ay* is not necessary in this complex sentence.
(How heavy my sentences were!)
b) I didn't know *sána* was past oriented.
c) Despite your explanation, I don't understand why you prefer* binílang* to* bíbilángin* as the task is not completed yet, or even can be seen as not started yet.

Thanks a lot, Moonshine, for all this help.


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## moonshine

_*Sana *_means _hope_, so if you use *Mas mabuti sana*, it's like saying you _hoped _the person did the action a different way. It doesn't really indicate the tense of the sentence.

Naglangoy sana tayo kahapon. = We should have gone swimming yesterday.
Naglalangoy sana tayo ngayon kung hindi umuulan. = We could have been swimming at the moment if it isn't raining.
Maglalangoy sana tayo bukas kaya lang may parating na bagyo. = We would have gone swimming tomorrow but there's a typhoon coming.

With regard to *binilang* versus *bibilangin*:

It would be better if you *counted*... = _Mas mabuti kung *binilang* mo...
_It would be better if you *will count*... = _Mas mabuti kung *bibilangin *mo...
_It would *have been better* if you counted... = _Mas *mabuti sana* kung binilang mo...

_ The first sentence indicates that the person had already done the math (counting and multiplying) but yielded an incorrect result so you're telling him it is better to do it another way.

The second sentence indicates that the peson hasn't done the counting and multiplying and you're giving him proper instructions on how to do the math.

The third sentence would be like saying you wished the person did the task in the manner you described instead.


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## Qcumber

moonshine said:


> _*Sana *_means _hope_, so if you use *Mas mabuti sana*, it's like saying you _hoped _the person did the action a different way. It doesn't really indicate the tense of the sentence. [...]


Well, I now have quite a lot to ponder over. Again, thanks a lot, Moonshine.


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