# International Words of Arabic Origin



## Whodunit

Today I read that the word "sofa", which is used in German, English, French, and many other languages, is of Arabic origin. Do you think that *صوف* or *صوفي* would be the original word which mean "wool" or "woolen".

I'd also like to know if there're more of such words that are used in very many languages. Now I only know 4 Arabic words that are maybe world-widely understood. Would you be so kind and add some more, please?

alkohol [*الكحل*]
bank [*بنك*]
Sultan [*سلطان*]

Thanks in advance.


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## Jana337

Wazir is pretty international,
shukkar is of Arabic origin AFAIK,
admiral,
giraffe, 
elixir,
alchymy,
hashish,
algebra,
nadir/zenith

More to come, hopefully. 

Jana


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## Whodunit

Some questions:

Wazir is pretty international, (_I wouldn't be so sure ... I think it's as international as 'inshallah' _)
shukkar is of Arabic origin AFAIK, (_Are you sure you didn't mean "sukkar"_)
admiral, (_good one, although I don't know how to write it in Arabic_)
giraffe, (_I wonder about the spelling. Is it really derived from Arabic?_)
elixir, (_What is this supposed to mean?_)
alchymy, (_good, I knew that, but didn't remember; thanks for refreshing my brain _)
hashish, (_excellent!_)
algebra, (_good one too_)
nadir/zenith (_What does 'nadir' mean?_)

Thank you very much, Jana.


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## elroy

Some comments... 



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> Today I read that the word "sofa", which is used in German, English, French, and many other languages, is of Arabic origin. Do you think that *صوف* or *صوفي* would be the original word which mean "wool" or "woolen".  *That sounds plausible.  I didn't know the word was of Arabic origin!*
> 
> I'd also like to know if there're more of such words that are used in very many languages. Now I only know 4 Arabic words that are maybe world-widely understood. Would you be so kind and add some more, please?
> 
> alkohol [*الكحل*]  *This is actually from the plural form of this word, الكحول - that's why there's a second o in English.*
> bank [*بنك*]  *I didn't know this came from Arabic either; I thought we took it from a foreign language! *
> Sultan [*سلطان*]
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## elroy

Some replies to your questions... 



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> Some questions:
> 
> Wazir is pretty international, (_I wouldn't be so sure ... I think it's as international as 'inshallah' _) It's no less valid than "sultan."  I think it works.
> shukkar is of Arabic origin AFAIK, (_Are you sure you didn't mean "sukkar"_) "Sukkar" is not an English word.  However, I'm not sure about "shukkar." She may have meant "chukkar," but according to Dictionary.com that's of Hindi origin.
> admiral, (_good one, although I don't know how to write it in Arabic_) It comes from امير ال [the prince of]. I guess "the ship" is understood.
> giraffe, (_I wonder about the spelling. Is it really derived from Arabic?_) Yes, it is. The Arabic is زرافة [zaraafah].
> elixir, (_What is this supposed to mean?_) It's a type of medicinal mixture, or a philosophical principle. It comes from the Arabic الإكسير (al-iksiir)
> alchymy, (_good, I knew that, but didn't remember; thanks for refreshing my brain _) It's spelled "alchemy," though.
> hashish, (_excellent!_)
> algebra, (_good one too_) quite a classical one, too
> nadir/zenith (_What does 'nadir' mean?_) "Nadir" is the opposite of "zenith" - so "lowest point."
> 
> Thank you very much, Jana.


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## Whodunit

*My comments:*

*That sounds plausible. I didn't know the word was of Arabic origin!*

I didn't know that either until I looked that word up in the "Duden". 

*This is actually from the plural form of this word, الكحول - that's why there's a second o in English.*

Indeed. By the way, do you really mean "plural form". I thought the word per se was كحول, just adding the definite article. So German "der Alkohol" is actually a bit redundant.  Doesn't كحل without و mean "antimony"?

_*I didn't know this came from Arabic either; I thought we took it from a foreign language!*_

I have no idea, but I imagine I just read it once somewhere. Wikipedia says it comes from German.


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## Jana337

> shukkar is of Arabic origin AFAIK, (_Are you sure you didn't mean "sukkar"_) "Sukkar" is not an English word.  However, I'm not sure about "shukkar." She may have meant "chukkar," but according to Dictionary.com that's of Hindi origin.


Sorry, I meant sukkar - sugar.


> It's spelled "alchemy," though.


Czenglish. 

caftan (unsure...)
lemon (again unsure)
harem (?Turkish?)
algorithm
gazelle
fakir

Jana


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> It's no less valid than "sultan."  I think it works.


 
Can you imagine almost no native speaker of German would understand "Wazir", but "Sultan"? 




> "Sukkar" is not an English word.  However, I'm not sure about "shukkar." She may have meant "chukkar," but according to Dictionary.com that's of Hindi origin.


 
Well, I thought of "sugar" (Arabic: sukkar). Is that what you are talking about?




> It comes from امير ال [the prince of]. I guess "the ship" is understood.


 
That's why I couldn't find it the dictionary, the "d" is missing.




> Yes, it is. The Arabic is زرافة [zaraafah].


 
But that doesn't come close to any language's pronunciation of the word "giraffe", does it? (Except for the Arabic's, of course )




> It's a type of medicinal mixture, or a philosophical principle. It comes from the Arabic الإكسير (al-iksiir)


 
Never heard of that.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Can you imagine almost no native speaker of German would understand "Wazir", but "Sultan"?


 
I didn't say they were just as common as each other.  But they are similar in that they are both directly taken from Arabic and refer to political positions. 




> Well, I thought of "sugar" (Arabic: sukkar). Is that what you are talking about?


 
I realize that.  However, Jana wrote "shukkar."  She could not have possibly meant "sugar" - too would have been too many typos. 



> But that doesn't come close to any language's pronunciation of the word "giraffe", does it? (Except for the Arabic's, of course )


 
Yes, it does.  All you have to do is change the "g" to a "z."


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## Jana337

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Never heard of that.


Never heard of the Arabic origins of the word? Or never heard the word? 


> Eli|xier,  das; -s, -e [alchemistenlat. elixirium < arab. al-iksir= (mit Artikel) der Stein der Weisen, eigtl.= trockene Substanz mit magischen Eigenschaften < griech. xerion= trockenes (Heilmittel)]: Heiltrank; Zaubertrank.
> Duden


It is very common in Czech.

Jana


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> I realize that.  However, Jana wrote "shukkar."  She could not have possibly meant "sugar"


OK, sorry again - quite inconsistently with the rest of the post, I wrote the word in Arabic (and I misspelled it).


> * too* would have been too many typos.


Luckily, I am not the only one. 

Jana


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> I didn't say they were just as common as each other. But they are similar in that they are both directly taken from Arabic and refer to political positions.


 
I've never denied that. 




> I realize that. However, Jana wrote "shukkar." She could not have possibly meant "sugar" - t*w*o would have been too many typos.


 
"Typos" is the cue.  Do you really think "sugar" is derived from Arabic? If so, why shouldn't "bank"?



> Yes, it does. All you have to do is change the "g" to a "z."


 
But they're not such close sounds as if a sound shift could apply here.


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## Whodunit

Neither ...





			
				Jana337 said:
			
		

> Never heard of the Arabic origins of the word?


nor...





			
				Jana337 said:
			
		

> Or never heard the word?


Thanks for the info. I'm much more intelligent now.


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## morgoth2604

Hello, I'm new the forums, so hello to everyone! I thought maybe to add a few comments:

-I think in English Wazir, is more likely known as Vizier.

- I've been wondering for quite a while about Sukar, I guess it's probable, Sukkar is also Sugar in Hebrew.

- I don't know how it is in Arabic, but in Hebrew Eretz means Earth. Eretz >>>Earth, anyone think those might be connected?


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## Jana337

morgoth2604 said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm new the forums, so hello to everyone! I thought maybe to add a few comments:
> 
> -I think in English Wazir, is more likely known as Vizier.
> 
> - I've been wondering for quite a while about Sukar, I guess it's probable, Sukkar is also Sugar in Hebrew.
> 
> - I don't know how it is in Arabic, but Eretz means Earth. Eretz >>>Earth, anyone think those might be connected?



Hi and welcome! 

Now I recall - my teacher of Arabic told me that the word "earth" comes from that language: 3arD - الأرض

Jana


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## Whodunit

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Hi and welcome!
> 
> Now I recall - my teacher of Arabic told me that the word "earth" comes from that language: 3arD - الأرض
> 
> Jana


 
I've always been wondering whether Arabic and German are connected via the word "2ard", since in German it's "Erde", which sounds very similar. 

By the by, welcome Morgoth.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> "Typos" is the cue.  Do you really think "sugar" is derived from Arabic? If so, why shouldn't "bank"?


 
"Sugar" is definitely of Arabic origin.  I didn't know that "bank" was simply because I thought we had taken it from English (or German, or some other language).  It doesn't really sound like a "pure" Arabic word.

In fact, looking up the word in an online etymology dictionary, I see nothing that indicates an Arabic origin... 



> But they're not such close sounds as if a sound shift could apply here.


 
They may not be the closest sounds linguistically, but I can assure you "giraffe" is of Arabic origin.


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## elroy

morgoth2604 said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm new the forums, so hello to everyone! I thought maybe to add a few comments:
> 
> -I think in English Wazir, is more likely known as Vizier.
> 
> - I've been wondering for quite a while about Sukar, I guess it's probable, Sukkar is also Sugar in Hebrew.
> 
> - I don't know how it is in Arabic, but in Hebrew Eretz means Earth. Eretz >>>Earth, anyone think those might be connected?


 
Might I also welcome you to the forums. 

Your suggestion about "vizier" seems plausible. As for "sugar," I'm pretty sure it's of Arabic origin. Historically speaking, due to trade between the Arab world and the West, it is more likely that the word was transmitted to the other languages through Arabic.

Hebrew "sokar" is of course similar because they're both Semitic languages.

Some more information.

Again, Hebrew "eretz" and Arabic " 'ard" are related, but "earth" sounds more similar to the Arabic. 

Thanks for your contributions!


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Hi and welcome!
> 
> Now I recall - my teacher of Arabic told me that the word "earth" comes from that language: 3arD - الأرض
> 
> Jana


 
Small correction:

There is no 3, unless you mean "width," "honor," or "offer."


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Small correction:
> 
> There is no 3, unless you mean "width" or "honor."


Thanks. Will I ever learn those numbers? Anyway, it is still better to mess up the transliteration and get right the Arabic word then the other way round. 
So 2arD, right?

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Thanks. Will I ever learn those numbers? Anyway, it is still better to mess up the transliteration and get right the Arabic word then the other way round.
> So 2arD, right?
> 
> Jana


 
Correct.  Or just "arD."  

Remember that 3 is used to represent ع because the latter looks like a backwards 3.


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## elroy

By the way, I am changing the title of this thread to reflect the breadth and multiplicity of the content therein.


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## Agnès E.

Bonjour ! 
We also have _sucre _(sugar) in French, _élixir _(elixir), and _banque _(bank), which is said (according to my Robert dictionary) to come from the Italian word _banca _(bench).
_Zéro _(zero) is said (according to my Robert dictionary) to come from _sifr _(empty?). And _café_ (coffee) is coming from _qahwa_ (?); and funnily, the French colloquial word for café is _caoua_! Please forgive my mistakes, I can't write or speak Arabic.


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## Outsider

There are many words of Arabic origin in Portuguese; too many to remember. I will just leave you with one word, and a song: "Oxalá" (_Insh'allah_).


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## elroy

Agnès E. said:
			
		

> Bonjour !
> We also have _sucre _(sugar) in French, _élixir _(elixir), and _banque _(bank), which is said (according to my Robert dictionary) to come from the Italian word _banca _(bench).
> _Zéro _(zero) is said (according to my Robert dictionary) to come from _sifr _(empty?). And _café_ (coffee) is coming from _qahwa_ (?); and funnily, the French colloquial word for café is _caoua_! Please forgive my mistakes, I can't write or speak Arabic.


 
_Sifr_ is simply the Arabic word for _zero_.

_Empty_ would be _faregh_.  

I didn't know about _caoua_!  

Another French word that comes to mind is _cadi_, the Arabic word for _judge_.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> "Sugar" is definitely of Arabic origin.


 
The "Duden" suggests "Kandis" (German for "suggar candy") is of Arabic origin. However, I can't find the proper Arabic spelling.


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## Jana337

Whodunit said:
			
		

> The "Duden" suggests "Kandis" (German for "suggar candy") is of Arabic origin. However, I can't find the proper Arabic spelling.


I googled  سكر قن together and some links  show this:

سكر=قند

Jana


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## Whodunit

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I googled سكر *قند* together and some links show this:
> 
> سكر=قند
> 
> Jana


 
Indeed. Thank you. Now that I look up "قند" in my dictionary it says "Kandiszucker". 

By the way, قند should be enough, سكر may be maybe () redundant, I don't know. I entered قند in Google's image search, and I think the second picture is the most appropriate.


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## Outsider

My Portuguese dictionary says our word for sugar is derived from Arabic, which in turn borrowed it from Sanskrit.


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## Swettenham

elroy said:
			
		

> "Sugar" is definitely of Arabic origin.  I didn't know that "bank" was simply because I thought we had taken it from English (or German, or some other language).  It doesn't really sound like a "pure" Arabic word.
> 
> In fact, looking up the word in an online etymology dictionary, I see nothing that indicates an Arabic origin...


Here's what my dictionary says: [Fr. _banque_ < OItal. _banca_, bench, moneychanger's table < OHGer. _banc_.]


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## Swettenham

elroy said:
			
		

> Your suggestion about "vizier" seems plausible.  As for "sugar," I'm pretty sure it's of Arabic origin.  Historically speaking, due to trade between the Arab world and the West, it is more likely that the word was transmitted to the other languages through Arabic.


My dictionary again: [ ...(portions omitted)... < Ar.  _sukkar_ < Pers. _shakar_ < Skt. _sarkara_, grit, ground sugar.]



> Again, Hebrew "eretz" and Arabic " 'ard" are related, but "earth" is closer to sounds more similar to the Arabic.


 [ME _erthe_ < OE _eorthe_] I think it's somewhat unlikely that the ancestors of English speakers didn't have a word for "earth" long before making contact with Arabic speakers.


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## Whodunit

Swettenham said:
			
		

> Here's what my dictionary says: [Fr. _banque_ < OItal. _banca_, bench, moneychanger's table < OHGer. _banc_.]


 
OK, so I recant that "bank" is of Arabic origin, after all.  Thank you all for that info.


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## Swettenham

More possibilities


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## elroy

Swettenham said:
			
		

> [ME _erthe_ < OE _eorthe_] I think it's somewhat unlikely that the ancestors of English speakers didn't have a word for "earth" long before making contact with Arabic speakers.


 
You have a point.  However, it could have been a synonym that gradually gained more and more popularity - just a thought.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> *This is actually from the plural form of this word, الكحول - that's why there's a second o in English.*
> 
> Indeed. By the way, do you really mean "plural form". I thought the word per se was كحول, just adding the definite article. So German "der Alkohol" is actually a bit redundant.  Doesn't كحل without و mean "antimony"?


 
Yes, I meant "plural form."

The singular is كحل and the plural is كحول.

"Der Alkohol" is in fact redundant, but that has nothing to do with whether it's singular or plural: it's redundant because "der" and "al" mean the same thing.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I meant sukkar - sugar.
> 
> Czenglish.
> 
> caftan (unsure...)
> lemon (again unsure)
> harem (?Turkish?)
> algorithm
> gazelle
> fakir
> 
> Jana


 
I've never heard of _caftan_ or _fakir_!  

The other words are of Arabic origin.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> Yes, I meant "plural form."
> 
> The singular is كحل and the plural is كحول.


 
So "antimony" doesn't mean "كحل" in Arabic, as my dictionary and Wikipedia claim it?




> "Der Alkohol" is in fact redundant, but that has nothing to do with whether it's singular or plural: it's redundant because "der" and "al" mean the same thing.


 
I was indeed referring to the articles, not to the number.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> I've never heard of _caftan_ or _fakir_!
> 
> The other words are of Arabic origin.


 
You don't know what "Fakir" is?


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> So "antimony" doesn't mean "كحل" in Arabic, as my dictionary and Wikipedia claim it?


 
It does.  All I was saying was that كحول is plural.


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## Swettenham

elroy said:
			
		

> You have a point. However, it could have been a synonym that gradually gained more and more popularity - just a thought.


That's certainly not unimaginable, especially given that Arabic advances in navigation helped to drastically redefine England's definition of "earth."


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> I've never heard of _caftan_ or _fakir_!
> 
> The other words are of Arabic origin.


I am surprised as well - click
I checked caftan in the same source. It is Turkish/Persian. Sorry.

Jana


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## Jana337

I am having doubts about the Arabic origin of earth. 


> *Etymology:* Earth \Earth\, noun. [Anglo-Saxon; akin to Old Saxon ertha, Old Flemmish irthe, Dutch aarde, Old High German erda, German erde, Icelandic, Swedish & Danish jord, Gothic a[=i]rpa, Old High German ero, Greek, adv., to earth, and perhaps to English ear to plow.]. Webster


Read also this.

The influence could have well worked in the opposite direction.

Jana


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## Outsider

Or it could just be a coincidence.


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## jorge_val_ribera

Elias, I can't believe you didn't mention that in Spanish there is a* lot *of words of Arabic origin! Oh, the disappointment... 

Hehe, just kidding. Anyway, I want to show you all a few words which (supposedly) have Arabic origin and are used often. I say supposedly because, as I don't know Arabic, I can't be sure:

aceite
aceituna
almohada
alcuza
acelga
aldea
acicalar
achacar
alfalfa
alquiler
alquimia
alquitrán
aduana
adobe
alfil
ámbar
amén
alfombra
ajedrez
alacrán
álgebra

etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc, etc........

(I found these words in this page: http://www.verdeislam.com/vi_03/VI_307.htm . But please notice that most words are very rare and a whole lot I hadn't ever heard of. But there is also a lot, like the ones I wrote, which are used in daily life)

EDIT: You were speaking about redundance with "Alkohol"... Well, in Spanish you can say this:

_Le echamos algo de agua *al al*cohol.  _


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## Outsider

Another word: *checkmate!*


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## Swettenham

Outsider said:
			
		

> Another word: *checkmate!*


Aha! I'd forgotten that one! Doesn't it come from a phrase meaning "The king is dead?" I think that's what I heard somewhere....

Speaking of games, *hazard* comes from the Arabic for "die," as in the singular of "dice." What a beautiful etymology!


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## Whodunit

Swettenham said:
			
		

> Aha! I'd forgotten that one! Doesn't it come from a phrase meaning "The king is dead?" I think that's what I heard somewhere....
> 
> Speaking of games, *hazard* comes from the Arabic for "die," as in the singular of "dice." What a beautiful etymology!


 
Actually, the German pronunciation of the word "checkmate" comes much closer to the original Arabic pronunciation:

Schachmatt --> shaah maat {شاه مات}

I'd translate it as follows:
شاه = shaah = king
مات = maat = has died

So the translation would maybe be "King has died".


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Actually, the German pronunciation of the word "checkmate" comes much closer to the original Arabic pronunciation:
> 
> Schachmatt --> shaah maat {شاه مات}
> 
> I'd translate it as follows:
> شاه = shaah = king
> مات = maat = has died
> 
> So the translation would maybe be "King has died".


 
Actually, it's *الشيخ* *مات* (ash-sheikh maat)
_[the sheik, the ruler, the "old man" has died]_

Otherwise, the "ck" in English and the "ch" in German don't make sense.


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## elroy

jorge_val_ribera said:
			
		

> Elias, I can't believe you didn't mention that in Spanish there is a* lot *of words of Arabic origin! Oh, the disappointment...
> 
> Hehe, just kidding. Anyway, I want to show you all a few words which (supposedly) have Arabic origin and are used often. I say supposedly because, as I don't know Arabic, I can't be sure:
> 
> aceite
> aceituna
> almohada
> alcuza
> acelga
> aldea
> acicalar
> achacar
> alfalfa
> alquiler
> alquimia
> alquitrán
> aduana
> adobe
> alfil
> ámbar
> amén
> alfombra
> ajedrez
> alacrán
> álgebra
> 
> etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc, etc........
> 
> (I found these words in this page: http://www.verdeislam.com/vi_03/VI_307.htm . But please notice that most words are very rare and a whole lot I hadn't ever heard of. But there is also a lot, like the ones I wrote, which are used in daily life)
> 
> EDIT: You were speaking about redundance with "Alkohol"... Well, in Spanish you can say this:
> 
> _Le echamos algo de agua *al al*cohol.  _


 
Of course!  How could I have been so remiss? 

I actually wrote a paper two years ago about the influences of Arabic on Spanish - a fascinating topic.


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## elroy

Swettenham said:
			
		

> Aha! I'd forgotten that one! Doesn't it come from a phrase meaning "The king is dead?" I think that's what I heard somewhere....
> 
> Speaking of games, *hazard* comes from the Arabic for "die," as in the singular of "dice." What a beautiful etymology!


 
Is that right?   I had no idea...

What does a die have to do with a hazard, though?


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## jorge_val_ribera

elroy said:
			
		

> What does a die have to do with a hazard, though?




Choking hazard?


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## Kelly B

elroy said:
			
		

> What does a die have to do with a hazard, though?


I was just passing through, but I know this one... in French, at least, _hasard _means "chance" or "luck" rather than "danger." And the English _hazard _has a milder meaning as well, as in "I'll hazard a guess that..."


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## jorge_val_ribera

And I was just thinking...maybe the word "azar" in Spanish (it means chance) also comes from the Arabic for "die".


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## elroy

Kelly B said:
			
		

> I was just passing through, but I know this one... in French, at least, _hasard _means "chance" or "luck" rather than "danger." And the English _hazard _has a milder meaning as well, as in "I'll hazard a guess that..."


 
Of course!   Fascinating!

What makes it even more fascinating is the Arabic word it must come from.  The only one that occurs to me is حجر (hajjar), which actually means "stone" (but can be used to mean "die").


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## ayed

> Originally Posted by Whodunit





> Schachmatt --> shaah maat {شاه مات}



Exactly so.This is the correct one as far as I do know so far.


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## Outsider

Kelly B said:
			
		

> I was just passing through, but I know this one... in French, at least, _hasard _means "chance" or "luck" rather than "danger." And the English _hazard _has a milder meaning as well, as in "I'll hazard a guess that..."


The meaning of this word seems to have undergone a few mutations, as it spread from language to language. In Portuguese, _azar_ means "bad luck", "jinx".

The Arabic origin of _hazard/hasard/azar_ is questionable, however:



> Beaucoup d'étymologies ont été proposées, toutes dénuées de preuves ; la plus plausible est celle de M. Mahn : arabe, _sehar_ et _sâr_, dé, et avec l'article _al_, _assahar_, _assar_. Mais, en l'absence de tout renseignement, il n'y a aucune raison pour rejeter l'opinion de Guillaume de Tyr, rapportée dans l'historique, à savoir que le hasard est une sorte de jeu de dés, et que ce jeu fut trouvé pendant le siége d'un château de Syrie nommé Hasart, et prit le nom de cette localité.
> 
> source


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## Whodunit

ayed said:
			
		

> Exactly so.This is the correct one as far as I do know so far.


 
That's just the way my dictionary says it. I don't even know how "ash-sheikh" could have been become "check". My explanation of "shaah maat":

AR: shaah --> AR: shaa7 --> GE: shaakh --> GE: shakh (Schach) --> EN: shak --> EN: shek --> tshek (check)
AR: maat --> GE: maat --> GE: mat (matt) --> EN: maet --> EN: meyt (mate)

But I could be wrong.


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## Outsider

The names of many stars in I.O. languages are of Arabic origin: Aldebaran, Algol, Mizar...


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> That's just the way my dictionary says it. I don't even know how "ash-sheikh" could have been become "check". My explanation of "shaah maat":
> 
> AR: shaah --> AR: shaa7 --> GE: shaakh --> GE: shakh (Schach) --> EN: shak --> EN: shek --> tshek (check)
> AR: maat --> GE: maat --> GE: mat (matt) --> EN: maet --> EN: meyt (mate)
> 
> But I could be wrong.


 
To my knowledge, "shaah" is a Persian word.  In Arabic, the word "shaah" is a type of sheep.

"Sheikh" could have become "check" in that the "kh" could have became "ck" ("ch" in German).

After all, what's to guarantee that the "h" became a "7," or to make that more plausible than a "kh" becoming a "ck/ch"?  Furthermore, the word "sheikh" is more plausible because it makes sense in the context.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> To my knowledge, "shaah" is a Persian word. In Arabic, the word "shaah" is a type of sheep.


 
That would be شاة (shaat). However, my dictionary keeps claiming () that شاه means "king" concerning check. Not the "King".


----------



## ayed

"Shah mat" means "The King has passed away or is to die" in the Chess game.

So,
>>Shah"King" ملك" شاه
>>Shat"Sheep" شاة"Notice that we have here"تاء مربوطة" "dotted ring taal"


----------



## LanceKitty

A very interesting thread  

The deeper I go, the more I discover that a dialect here in the Philippines called *Tausug* has words adapted from the Arabic language. Tausug is not only a dialect, but also a tribe (95% Muslim). I suppose that explains why there is such an adaptation since Muslims have to know Arabic. Tausug has sukkar and qahwa. We also follow the week days in Arabic.


----------



## yasemin

hi to all!
it is great that we've had an arabic forum. i wanted to add that, as can be guessed, also in turkish we have many words coming form arabic, such as şah mat (shaah maat), kahve (coffee), şeker (sugar), inşallah, maşallah, sıfır (zero), cebir (algebra), haşhiş (hashish), zürafa (giraffa, spelled zaraafa in arabic?) etc. and many others that may not exist in other languages but in turkish, since it has been affected much from arabic (and from persian). 

meanwhile, for elixir: we have in turkish iksir, meaning the same. so this makes me think that some languages took the word with the article el.


----------



## Josh_

Hello. I just found this forum. It is a very neat place -- especially the Arabic section as I am intersted in the Arabic language. I started learning Egyptian Arabic four years ago and am fairly fluent in it. Now I am learning the Modern Standard Language. But, as this is not the introductions page I will stop.


Anyway, I went through the thread fairly fast so if these words were already mentioned I apologize.

Assassin(s), from Hashishuun

Carafe (a utensil similar to a pitcher), from the Arabic word gharafa which has the general meaning of scooping liquid. This word probably went through many changes and languages (such as Spanish and French) before arriving at its English form.

Also, the word Mecca is of particular interest to this thread. As I'm sure most know Mecca is the destination of many, many Muslim pilgrims every year. I have always been fascinated by the fact that the word Mecca and the idea of a desirable destination found their way into English. A couple of examples:

Woodstock was a mecca for the hippie generation.
A national park that was a mecca for outdoor enthusiasts.


----------



## anjam918

Monsoon is also arabic in origin.It initially  refered to a type of wind.

anjam918


----------



## gliamo

There is a list of French words derived from Arabic here: http://users.antrasite.be/ppoisse/Documents/arabic.htm

_Cauchemar_ (= nightmare) isn't there, but shouldn't it be listed?

BTW Elroy, Angès meant _kawa_ (not _caoua_), but it is a word we seldom write.


----------



## nicnac

elroy said:
			
		

> Correct.  Or just "arD."
> 
> Remember that 3 is used to represent ع because the latter looks like a backwards 3.


Where can I learn these numbers. Is there a system which letters they represent?


----------



## Jana337

nicnac said:
			
		

> Where can I learn these numbers. Is there a system which letters they represent?


Yes, you can - here is a recent thread.

Welcome! 

Jana


----------



## badgrammar

I looked at the list of French words of Arabic origin, but there are 3 that I did not see there:

Toubib (Colloquial for "doctor")
chouya ("a little bit", sorry for speeling!)

And finally, please correct me if I'm wrong:
Pyjama!


----------



## Whodunit

badgrammar said:
			
		

> I looked at the list of French words of Arabic origin, but there are 3 that I did not see there:


 
Let me mention what I have found so far:



			
				badgrammar said:
			
		

> Toubib (Colloquial for "doctor")


 
Google shows some results for "toubib" indicating that it means "medic".  It may be derived from the Arabic word "طبيب" (Tabiib) which means "doctor".



			
				badgrammar said:
			
		

> chouya ("a little bit", sorry for speeling!)


 
Does it really mean "a little bit"? If so, it was directly translated from the colloquial Arabic word "شوية" (shuwayya) which should significate "a little ..." or "some".



			
				badgrammar said:
			
		

> And finally, please correct me if I'm wrong:
> Pyjama!


 
What about this theory?



> _The word "pajama" came by the way of the __Hindi__ word pajama, originally from the __Persian__ words پايجامه Payjama meaning "leg garment."_ Source


 
It's not derived from Arabic, although the Arabic word is "بيجاما", too.


----------



## badgrammar

Yes, toubib and chouya (both commonly used and understood in French) respectively have the meanings of "doctor", as in:
"Tu devrais aller voir le toubib"


and "a little bit", as in:

"Tu prends du café?"
"M'ouai... Un chouya..."

However I was wrong about pyjama, as it is apparently not at all of arabic origin... Mea culpa

I have heard the "shampoo" is also of arabic origins...  I'll have to check that one out!



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> Let me mention what I have found so far:
> 
> 
> 
> Google shows some results for "toubib" indicating that it means "medic".  It may be derived from the Arabic word "????" (Tabiib) which means "doctor".
> 
> 
> 
> Does it really mean "a little bit"? If so, it was directly translated from the colloquial Arabic word "????" (shuwayya) which should significate "a little ..." or "some".
> 
> 
> 
> What about this theory?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not derived from Arabic, although the Arabic word is "??????", too.


----------



## Magmod

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Today I read that the word "sofa", which is used in German, English, French, and many other languages, is of Arabic origin. Do you think that *صوف* or *صوفي* would be the original word which mean "wool" or "woolen".
> 
> I'd also like to know if there're more of such words that are used in very many languages. Now I only know 4 Arabic words that are maybe world-widely understood. Would you be so kind and add some more, please?
> 
> alkohol [*الكحل*]
> bank [*بنك*]
> Sultan [*سلطان*]
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
I am interested in the origin of Arabic Words. 18% of the Spanish Language is Arabic. Therefore the list is endless.
I have not got an Arabic keyboard.
Can you advise me what to do?
Some Arabic words that are used in English:
Bug=insect, carob,coffin, cut, noble=nabil,tall= taweel,table,fur,cave,cup,camel,mosque, technique,alcove, algol,alkali,amber,attar,cipher,risk(related to bank in history of Venice), sabka, cat, arsnal,nut, hello, lute=al oud,semen, cotton,safari,marzipan,mattress,orange,tariff, house=hosh, mohair etc.
If you study Spanish the list becomes endless. The Rennaissance started in Toledo in Spain not in Italy.Many of the books taught in Oxford University came from Toledo's Arabic origin.
The Muslim ascetic the Sufi = this word originates from wool and probably "sofa" comes from wool.
In English "check mate" when playing chess means king is dead. This is a direct traslation of Shaikh mat in Arabic. 
In Spanish "mat ar"  means to die. I have a theory that Shakespeare is an Englishman of Arabic origin =Shaikh of Zubair. 
Please let me know if you find anything special.
Regards


----------



## Swettenham

Magmod said:
			
		

> Some Arabic words that are used in English:
> Bug=insect, carob, coffin, cut, noble=nabil,tall= taweel,table,fur,cave,cup,camel,mosque, technique,alcove, algol,alkali,amber,attar,cipher,risk(related to bank in history of Venice), sabka, cat, arsnal,nut, hello, lute=al oud,semen, cotton,safari,marzipan,mattress,orange,tariff, house=hosh, mohair etc.


I'm sorry, but the words in red are not of Arabic origin.  In fact, neither are camel and orange— camel has a "semitic" origin, not necessarily Arabic.  Orange comes from Sanskrit, but it passed through Arabic on its way to Europe. Sabka is not in my dictionary.  Bug is of uncertain origin.  As for the others:

coffin= Greek
cut= English
noble= Latin
tall= English
table= Latin
fur= Germanic
cave= Latin
cup= Latin
technique= Greek
risk= Italian (can you provide evidence for your theory about a bank in Venice?)
cat= Germanic
nut= English
hello= French
semen= Latin
house= English

Thank you for adding those other words to our list!  We can also add "ghoul."


----------



## badgrammar

Actually the word "cat" may very well come from the Arabic word quttah.  I was curious abut the words cat and kitty when I was in Turkey and learned the Turkish word for cat, "kedi"... 

It may not always be easy to link a word back to its origins, and words may look like they came from one language, when in fact, they came from another.

I read the following on the origin of the word "cat" 


"The word for cat in ancient Egypt was Mau. It is also found in countries around the Mediterranean: in yiddish it is kats, in greek, ga'ta, and in maltese qattus. The source appears to be Arabic, because the oldest use of it is found in North Africa, where it is quttah. And there is a similar word used by the Berber tribesman.

This fits with the idea that all domestic cats are descended from the North African wild cat, felis lybica, via domestication by the ancient Egyptians. The Egyptians also provide us with an explanation of why we call a cat puss or pussy, these being variations of the name of the early Egyptian cat goddess, Bast (pronounced Pasht). Tying the animal even tighter to this part of the world is the origin of the word tabby, which comes from its Turkish name utabi. And the general word for a cat in Turkey is kedi, which has probably given us our pet word kitty."

English: cat
Welsh: cath
French: chat
German: Katze
Italian: gatto
Spanish: gato
Swedish/Norwegian: katt
Holland/Belgian/Danish: kat



			
				Swettenham said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but the words in red are not of Arabic origin.  In fact, neither are camel and orange— camel has a "semitic" origin, not necessarily Arabic.  Orange comes from Sanskrit, but it passed through Arabic on its way to Europe. Sabka is not in my dictionary.  Bug is of uncertain origin.  As for the others:
> 
> coffin= Greek
> cut= English
> noble= Latin
> tall= English
> table= Latin
> fur= Germanic
> cave= Latin
> cup= Latin
> technique= Greek
> risk= Italian (can you provide evidence for your theory about a bank in Venice?)
> cat= Germanic
> nut= English
> hello= French
> semen= Latin
> house= English
> 
> Thank you for adding those other words to our list!  We can also add "ghoul."


----------



## Outsider

Latin: _cattus_

Since the word already existed in Latin, over 2,000 years ago, an Arabic origin seems untenable. It looks like it is common to most Indo-European languages, so it's probably very ancient.

P.S. On the other hand, the IE etymon and the Arabic word may have had a common root. See this fascinating entry.


----------



## Magmod

Swettenham said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but the words in red are not of Arabic origin. In fact, neither are camel and orange— camel has a "semitic" origin, not necessarily Arabic. Orange comes from Sanskrit, but it passed through Arabic on its way to Europe. Sabka is not in my dictionary. Bug is of uncertain origin. As for the others:
> 
> coffin= Greek
> cut= English
> noble= Latin
> tall= English
> table= Latin
> fur= Germanic
> cave= Latin
> cup= Latin
> technique= Greek
> risk= Italian (can you provide evidence for your theory about a bank in Venice?)
> cat= Germanic
> nut= English
> hello= French
> semen= Latin
> house= English
> 
> Thank you for adding those other words to our list!  We can also add "ghoul."


 
Thanks for your response. From your knowledge of Spanish. You will easily understand "Check mate" and "Nut = nuez".
"Ole" and "hola" in Spanish are of Arabic origin and they are corruptions of words related to Allah. I find it rediculous to say that hello is from French ( ho + lá ). 
Arabic is a Semetic language. When I saw  Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of Christ" Jesus and the Jews in the film were speaking in *Aramic*. I almost could understand everything that was said because these languages are of Semitic origin like Hebrew and Arabic. Obvioiusly Christ is a Semite. 
Almost every word in Greek and Latin originates from old Egyptian hieroglyphic and Sankrist. The Egyptian civilization streched for nearly 10,000 years. Moses was floated on the Nile. 
Obviously you are right to say that many of the words "passed through Arabic on its way to Europe"
In particular Arabic numerals which are of Indian origin. Today, the Arabs still use the Indian numerals but the rest of the world use the so-called Arabic numerals. On similar principles, it is concluded that the words I mentioned are of Arabic origin, just like the Arabic numerals.
While Europe was in the dark ages and rejected multi athiesm of the Greeks, the Arabs re-introduced updated Greek knowledge back into Europe. 
 People used to bank their money by putting it on benches(=banks) and giving it to bench-dealers in the streets of Venice. Also the word risk=rizq came into Venice, about the same time, about 1500 from the Arabs. Because rizq, ie making money to the Arabs, is regarded as a risky business and depended on Allah.
Cave = Kahf in Arabic. There is a chapter in the Koran entitled the Cave.
Like "casa" in Spanish, hosh is an old Arabic word for house.

For Europeans who can't read Arabic, which is written from right to left, to say that a word is derived from say Greek or Latin is sufficiently accurate to their readers, although one can easily argue that the word originated in Sanksrist. Similarly Europeans can't read Sanskrit. 
In fact all the words have similar stories. Sabkha is when, say farm land, due to evaporaion of underground water bringing the salt to the surface making the land useless to farming. The Babylons were the first people to farm the land.
I hope I did not bore you. I am not a linguist but a civil engineer. All the above argument is based on my interest in finding the origin of everything. We all come from that African man who refused to be a chimpanzee.


----------



## Swettenham

Magmod said:
			
		

> Thanks for your response. From your knowledge of Spanish. You will easily understand "Check mate" and "Nut = nuez".


Yes, I knew about Checkmate.  In fact, I think I may have been the first person to mention it in this thread!   As for "nut," my dictionary tells me it originated in Old English "hnutu."  


> "Ole" and "hola" in Spanish are of Arabic origin and they are corruptions of words related to Allah. I find it rediculous to say that hello is from French ( ho + lá ).


Ole is definitely of Arabic origin.  It means Allah.
Hola, on the other hand, according to the Real Academia Española, comes from English "hello," which in turn, according to my dictionary, comes from French "ho+là."  You may disagree, but do you have evidence for your opinion?  I don't see why it would be ridiculous, considering that England was a French-speaking nation for many years after the Norman invasion.


> Arabic is a Semetic language. When I saw  Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of Christ" Jesus and the Jews in the film were speaking in *Aramic*. I almost could understand everything that was said because these languages are of Semitic origin like Hebrew and Arabic. Obvioiusly Christ is a Semite.


De acuerdo. 


> Almost every word in Greek and Latin originates from old Egyptian hieroglyphic and Sankrist. The Egyptian civilization streched for nearly 10,000 years. Moses was floated on the Nile.


I find this unlikely.  Here's how I understand it: Greek, Latin and Sanskrit are all Indo-European languages.  They come from a common source, a long-extinct mother tongue known as Proto-Indo-European.  Thus, there are many similarities between Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, and other Indo-European languages like Persian, German, etc.  However, Latin and Greek developed separately from Sanskrit.  Sanskrit has added words to European languages, mostly through trade over the centuries.  Much of this trade was conducted by Arab merchants, which is why...  


> Obviously you are right to say that many of the words "passed through Arabic on its way to Europe"


In general, though, Greek and Latin were isolated from Sanskrit.  As regards Egyptian, as far as I know it has had minimal influence on any Indo-European language.  But since we're talking about ancient tongues, Phoenician (another Semitic language) was an important influence on European languages.


----------



## Swettenham

I apologize for splitting up my response, but it was growing rather unwieldy.





> In particular Arabic numerals which are of Indian origin. Today, the Arabs still use the Indian numerals but the rest of the world use the so-called Arabic numerals.  On similar principles, it is concluded that the words I mentioned are of Arabic origin, just like the Arabic numerals.


I don't understand this point.  Could you explain further?


> While Europe was in the dark ages and rejected multi athiesm of the Greeks, the Arabs re-introduced updated Greek knowledge back into Europe.


Very true.  Western civilization owes more to the Middle East than most of us realize.  Arabic inventions made the age of exploration possible.  The flourishing of Islamic culture during the European dark ages subsequently enabled European culture to flourish!  This is a topic for a different thread, because the list goes on and on....


> People used to bank their money by putting it on benches(=banks) and giving it to bench-dealers in the streets of Venice. Also the word risk=rizq came into Venice, about the same time, about 1500 from the Arabs. Because rizq, ie making money to the Arabs, is regarded as a risky business and depended on Allah.
> Cave = Kahf in Arabic. There is a chapter in the Koran entitled the Cave.
> Like "casa" in Spanish, hosh is an old Arabic word for house.
> 
> For Europeans who can't read Arabic, which is written from right to left, to say that a word is derived from say Greek or Latin is sufficiently accurate to their readers, although one can easily argue that the word originated in Sanksrist. Similarly Europeans can't read Sanskrit.


Interesting similarities may exist, but so far, your evidence doesn't convince me of a causal relationship.


> In fact all the words have similar stories. Sabkha is when, say farm land, due to evaporaion of underground water bringing the salt to the surface making the land useless to farming. The Babylons were the first people to farm the land.


I've never heard this word.  I'm glad to have learned it! 


> I hope I did not bore you. I am not a linguist but a civil engineer. All the above argument is based on my interest in finding the origin of everything. We all come from that African man who refused to be a chimpanzee.


I share your curiosity about history and origins.  Thanks for a lively discussion!


----------



## Magmod

Swettenham said:
			
		

> I apologize for splitting up my response, but it was growing rather unwieldy.I don't understand this point. Could you explain further?
> Very true. Western civilization owes more to the Middle East than most of us realize. Arabic inventions made the age of exploration possible. The flourishing of Islamic culture during the European dark ages subsequently enabled European culture to flourish! This is a topic for a different thread, because the list goes on and on....
> Interesting similarities may exist, but so far, your evidence doesn't convince me of a causal relationship.
> I've never heard this word. I'm glad to have learned it!
> I share your curiosity about history and origins. Thanks for a lively discussion!


 
Thanks for your comments.

Sorry I didn’t know about your input for *Checkmate*. What did you write?

The Arabs still use the original Indian numerals, but not 0,1,2,3 etc. For example "0"="." a dot for zero i.e. nothing, 1=l, 5=0, etc.

*“nuez”* according to the RAE dictionary is of Latin origin not old English. The Arabic  for nut is nuet i.e. the “z” is replaced by “t”. But the Spaniard pronounce the “z” like “th”. I don’t see how the Spanish came to use the same word from the English when nuez already existed in Arabic Spain? As I explained it is sufficiently accurate to relate to Latin or Greek. Otherwise it would be unintelligible to the reader. One can only go back so far in time. 
Where did the Italians get the word *risk *from? In Arabic risk=rizq. There was a program on the BBC about numerals and the presenter confirmed bench = bank and risk = rizq. *Bench* is not Arabic.
 
The French may have brought “ Hello” to England in 1066. Just like the English took their language to America, and the Indians took Sanskrit west to Europe. The question is did the French take *hola* from the Spanish Arabs?  The answer is yes they did. You wrote that *Ole* is definitely of Arabic origin. It means Allah. As you know that *h* is not pronounced in Spanish, so why *Ole* and *Ola* can’t be related.
 The recent origin of Hello is:
*hello* http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hello
1883, alt. of _hallo_ (1840), itself an alt. of _holla, hollo,_ a shout to attract attention, first recorded 1588. Perhaps from *holla! "stop,* cease
As you can see it is not clear about the origin of hello- perhaps from holla? Also no (Ho + lá) but to stop ie not a greeting.
 
But there is no perhaps about the origin of the greeting word hala in Arabic. It is as common as “hello”and always a greeting, since before  the time of Mohammed. To say *hala* for greeting in Arabic is extremely common, whether in Spain *hola* or Yemen.  Because of the Koran the origin of the Arabic language has not changed a lot. Most literate Arabs can still read and understand the Koran.
 
Many Indian tribes about 10,000 years immigrated west to empty Europe  (= a Semitic word for Ereb meaning west ) and obviously they took their Sanskrit language with them.
Latin, Greek and other European languages are of Indo-European origin. However, I don’t see why you classified Sanskrit as Indo European. There has been no mass immigration of Europeans into India because it is overpopulated. Trade will influence the language only marginally in old times.
There is a lot of evidence that the Greek borrowed from ancient Egyptians. Indeed the only way that one could finally decipher the Hieroglyphic was thanks to a Greek translation. 
When I was reading a book on the origin of European languages, I was astonished on the influence of Sanskrit.
In spite of what I have written, I can't guarantee its accuracy as I'm an amateur.


----------



## Josh_

Lingua franca (which is commonly used as a phrase in English) is an italian phrase, but of Arabic roots.

Also, the simple word candy is derived (almost exactly) from Arabic.


----------



## Outsider

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> Lingua franca (which is commonly used as a phrase in English) is an italian phrase, but of Arabic roots.


_Lingua franca_ is a Latin phrase.

P.S. This is questionable. See below.


----------



## Josh_

Outsider said:
			
		

> _Lingua franca_ is a Latin phrase.


 
You might be right, I don't know. The term came into vogue when the Arabs came into contact with the Italians and other Europeans during the Middle Ages ( I imagine during the time of the Crusades or before. I believe at this time Italian had broken off from Latin as a distinct language. The Arab speaking world, at this time, just referred to all Europeans as Francs. What I meant to say was that the term lingua franca was adapted to the Italian language from the Arab usage of the word Francs. Here's more info from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca


----------



## Outsider

The Online Etymology dictionary actually agrees with you on the origin of the phrase _lingua franca_:



> 1678, from It., lit. "Frankish tongue." [...] The name is probably from the Ar. custom, dating back to the Crusades, of calling all Europeans Franks.


However, the word 'Frank' itself is of Latin (and Germanic) origin. This was why I doubted your first post.

So it seems that you were right and I was wrong. My apologies.


----------



## Josh_

Outsider said:
			
		

> The Online Etymology dictionary actually agrees with you on the origin of the phrase _lingua franca_:
> 
> However, the word 'Frank' itself is of Latin (and Germanic) origin. This was why I doubted your first post.
> 
> So it seems that you were right and I was wrong. My apologies.


Oh, no need to apologize. Actually I was both right and wrong, or at least highly inaccurate in my first post on lingua franca. In my fervor to share the derivation of the term I erroneously wrote that it was of Arabic roots instead of saying it was an Italian phrase derived from the Arab use of the word Frank (which of course is from Latin). This is probably what confused you.


----------



## a7War_aL_6arF

i don't know why when i read this word "frank" i refered it to the word "frenja" الفرنجة  which was used by arabs to say europeans i guess !!


----------



## Samo

it is estimated that at least 1000 portuguese words are of Arabic origen alface = al khas alfaiate=al khayat asouge=souk etc. see http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_palavras_portuguesas_de_origem_%C3%A1rabe for more.


----------



## SDH

Hi all!
There are some words in Russian with Arabic origin:

1. *Sunduq* in Russian means... box (old box with some old things)... 
2. *Siberia* (Asian part of Russia) according to its severe climate and nature conditions has Arabic origin from the word “sabr” – patience. Siberian region *Yakutia* famous by its diamonds maybe also has Arabic routs in its name (form the word “yakut”). 
3. The Russian word “*mashina*” (a car) I suppose has also Arabic origin form the verb “masha” (to go). 
4. “tataqallabu as-sama2” means “the weather is changing”. So the Russian equivalent for the verb “taqallaba” (root qlb) is “*qolebatsya*” (to hesitate). Sounds similar, isn’t it? 
5. World “7elwa” in Russia is a sort of a sweet (sounds “*7alva*”).


----------



## diegodbs

Samo said:
			
		

> it is estimated that at least 1000 portuguese words are of Arabic origen alface = al khas alfaiate=al khayat asouge=souk etc. see http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_palavras_portuguesas_de_origem_%C3%A1rabe for more.


 
It is also estimated that some 4000 spanish words are of Arabic origin.

aceite
alcanfor
azahar
almirante
alférez
albaitar
algoritmo
acequia
arrayán

and many many more.


----------



## marinax

i dont know if someone mentioned it, but some teacher told me once that a few spanish words have also arabic origin...

almohada (pillow)
alhaja (piece of jewellery)
alcohol
aljibe


----------



## diegodbs

marinax said:
			
		

> i dont know if someone mentioned it, but some teacher told me once that a few spanish words have also arabic origin...
> 
> almohada (pillow)
> alhaja (piece of jewellery)
> alcohol
> aljibe


 
not a few, marinax, there are more than 4000.


----------



## Jana337

SDH said:
			
		

> Hi all!
> There are some words in Russian with Arabic origin:
> 
> 3. The Russian word “*mashina*” (a car) I suppose has also Arabic origin form the verb “masha” (to go).


I would be greatly surprised if it turned out to be correct. The word "machine" is present in many - if not all - European languages and its roots are Greek in my book. It is a cognate of "mechanic" if it makes the Greek origin more obvious. Now you can argue that it was actually borrowed from Arabic anyway. 

Welcome to the forum! 

Jana


----------



## diegodbs

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I would be greatly surprised if it turned out to be correct. The word "machine" is present in many - if not all - European languages and its roots are Greek in my book. It is a cognate of "mechanic" if it makes the Greek origin more obvious. Now you can argue that it was actually borrowed from Arabic anyway.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Jana


 
That's right Jana, the word comes from latin "macchina", which in turn comes from doric greek "machana" (I can't use greek letters here)


----------



## Outsider

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I would be greatly surprised if it turned out to be correct. The word "machine" is present in many - if not all - European languages and its roots are Greek in my book.


Greek via Latin and French (notice the unusual pronunciation of the _ch_). There's a famous phrase from classical philosophy, _Deus ex machina_.


----------



## Magmod

Before anyone can find international words of Arabic origin, one needs to know the history of Greek, Latin and Sanskrit, Semitic languages etc. As people travelled they took their word with them - Alexander the Great was a pharaoh  
The Arabic is a Semitic language as far as I know it started by the nomadic tribes of Yemen. The Greek language is influenced by Hieroglyph, Sanskrit and the Semitic languages.
 For example the Koran is more or less a copy of the Torah and the New Testament (please think of me as Chinese, if you are not brainwashed  ). But Jesus spoke in Aramaic again a Semitic Language and the Torah is written in Hebrew. Mohammed spoke in Arabic and was influence by a Christian priest called Buhaira who again was influenced by the Latin especially that of Damascus (a Latin Word like Tripoli, Alexandria etc.). 
Surely Hebrew copied extensively from Hieroglyph, but where is the proof – well Moses floated on the Nile in the days of the ancient Egyptians about 2000 BC. And there was Ikhnaton, a Pharaoh who proclaimed monotheism, who I believe the Jews, copied his religion of one god for economical reasons. 
We all know that most computer words are of American origin and we know why. Thanks to the ingenuity of Americans I am writing to you on my computer. We all know the origin of the word McDonald, (but this one did not have a farm), Coca Cola and OK  

 Every word that is borrowed has its own history and origin. For example, the English word arsenal started as dar al sinaa = factory in Arabic and transferred into Europe by the Ottomans as D'arsnal and came back into Arabic from D'arsnal as terasana. 

Similarly every other word has a story, whether it is a minaret, coffee, Europe, Morocco, Sudan, Zanzibar or tomato.
Another example, algorithm is derived from the name of that giant Arabic philosopher Al Khawarismi  
Therefore I ask anyone who claims the origin of a word to tell us its derivation history, with dates if possible. I think that way it is more interesting and convincing.

Remember that we all originated from that African who refused to be a chimpanzee.  

Regards


----------



## diegodbs

Magmod said:
			
		

> Before anyone can find international words of Arabic origin, one needs to know the history of Greek, Latin and Sanskrit, Semitic languages etc. As people travelled they took their word with them - Alexander the Great was a pharaoh
> The Arabic is a Semitic language as far as I know it started by the nomadic tribes of Yemen. The Greek language is influenced by Hieroglyph, Sanskrit and the Semitic languages.
> For example the Koran is more or less a copy of the Torah and the New Testament (please think of me as Chinese, if you are not brainwashed  ). But Jesus spoke in Aramaic again a Semitic Language and the Torah is written in Hebrew. Mohammed spoke in Arabic and was influence by a Christian priest called Buhaira who again was influenced by the Latin especially that of Damascus (a Latin Word like Tripoli, Alexandria etc.).
> Surely Hebrew copied extensively from Hieroglyph, but where is the proof – well Moses floated on the Nile in the days of the ancient Egyptians about 2000 BC. And there was Ikhnaton, a Pharaoh who proclaimed monotheism, who I believe the Jews, copied his religion of one god for economical reasons.
> We all know that most computer words are of American origin and we know why. Thanks to the ingenuity of Americans I am writing to you on my computer. We all know the origin of the word McDonald, (but this one did not have a farm), Coca Cola and OK
> 
> Every word that is borrowed has its own history and origin. For example, the English word arsenal started as dar al sinaa = factory in Arabic and transferred into Europe by the Ottomans as D'arsnal and came back into Arabic from D'arsnal as terasana.
> 
> Similarly every other word has a story, whether it is a minaret, coffee, Europe, Morocco, Sudan, Zanzibar or tomato.
> Another example, algorithm is derived from the name of that giant Arabic philosopher Al Khawarismi
> Therefore I ask anyone who claims the origin of a word to tell us its derivation history, with dates if possible. I think that way it is more interesting and convincing.
> 
> Remember that we all originated from that African who refused to be a chimpanzee.
> 
> Regards


 
Hi Magmod, the oldest spanish word for "arsenal" is "atarazana". Remember the arabs stayed here for almost 800 years, that's why we have in spanish so many words borrowed from them. They didn't occupy the whole peninsula for such a long time, the southern parts of what is now Spain and Portugal remained longer under their control. 800 years is the time between their arrival (711 A.D.) and their withdrawal (1492 A.D.).
Regards.


----------



## Magmod

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Hi Magmod, the oldest spanish word for "arsenal" is "atarazana". Remember the arabs stayed here for almost 800 years, that's why we have in spanish so many words borrowed from them. They didn't occupy the whole peninsula for such a long time, the southern parts of what is now Spain and Portugal remained longer under their control. 800 years is the time between their arrival (711 A.D.) and their withdrawal (1492 A.D.).
> Regards.


 
Helo diegodbs
Thank you for your response. 
It seems to me that the Spaniards took the word Arsenal via the Ottomans as the English did. This is explained in the RAE root as:

*atarazana.*

(Del ár. hisp. _*ãdár aṣṣán‘a_, este de _dár aṣṣiná‘a,_ y este del ár. clás. _dār aṣṣinā‘ah_, casa de la industria).
 


As I explained the Arabs use tarazana = arsenal whereas
*attarazana = the tarazana ( Arabic ) = arsenal*. No double “tt” is allowed in Spanish, as you know. 
Very few Arabs would  associate tarazana with dar assiná’a (= factory), but with Arsenal. However the origin is true as you mentioned  

 The Ottomans ruled the Arabs for nearly 500 years causing  backwardness amongst the Arabs. Luckily they had Ataturk but no one like him has emerged yet amongst the Arabs and unlikely to emerge in our lifetime  

 I noticed that the Spaniards like to add “el=arr=at =the” to the borrowed Arabic words. For example roz = rice (Arabic), arroz = rice (Spanish). = the rice (Arabic) . Double rr is allowed in Spanish. 
Hence when the Spanish write "El arroz" is as if saying "the the rice in Arabic".
Similarly atarazana, alcohol etc.
I hope I didn't bore you. I must say you never bore me with your excellent Spanish corrections and answers to me.

Regards


----------



## diegodbs

Magmod said:
			
		

> Helo diegodbs
> Thank you for your response.
> It seems to me that the Spaniards took the word Arsenal via the Ottomans as the English did. This is explained in the RAE root as:
> 
> *atarazana.*
> 
> (Del ár. hisp. _*ãdár aṣṣán‘a_, este de _dár aṣṣiná‘a,_ y este del ár. clás. _dār aṣṣinā‘ah_, casa de la industria).
> 
> 
> 
> As I explained the Arabs use tarazana = arsenal whereas
> *attarazana = the tarazana ( Arabic ) = arsenal*. No double “tt” is allowed in Spanish, as you know.
> Very few Arabs would associate tarazana with dar assiná’a (= factory), but with Arsenal. However the origin is true as you mentioned
> 
> The Ottomans ruled the Arabs for nearly 500 years causing backwardness amongst the Arabs. Luckily they had Ataturk but no one like him has emerged yet amongst the Arabs and unlikely to emerge in our lifetime
> 
> I noticed that the Spaniards like to add “el=arr=at =the” to the borrowed Arabic words. For example roz = rice (Arabic), arroz = rice (Spanish). = the rice (Arabic) . Double rr is allowed in Spanish.
> Hence when the Spanish write "El arroz" is as if saying "the the rice in Arabic".
> Similarly atarazana, alcohol etc.
> I hope I didn't bore you. I must say you never bore me with your excellent Spanish corrections and answers to me.
> 
> Regards


 
Hi Magmod, you say that we like to add "el" to some borrowed Spanish words. It is not a question of "we like to do that". As you know "el/the" is "al" in Arabic, but if "al" is followed by a word beginning with certain consonants (d,s,t, and some other) that "L" drops and changes to the first consonant of the following word. 
al + tar...  = attar.... (atarazana)
al + dar...  = addar... (adarve)

The Spaniards, who didn´t know that "al" was the definite article, and knew nothing about that linguistic rule in Arabic, thought that (atarazana or adarve) were a single word, so they said (la atarazana, el adarve) because they needed the definite article when they used that words. So, azafata, arroz, atarazana, and many others.
There are many curious examples of how Arabic words changed to become Spanish words. There is a famous bridge in Extremadura "el puente de Alcántara", which is redundant, because "al qantara" means "the bridge" in Arabic. "la puerta de Bibarrambla" in "La Alhambra (Granada); "bab" in Arabic is "door", one of the characteristics of the Arabic as spoken in Al-Andalus was that "alef" (long "a") was pronounced "i" in certain circumstances, so Arabic "bab" became "bib" in Al-Andalus. Strictly speaking "la puerta de Bibarrambla" woud be "la puerta de la puerta de la rambla".
Regards.


----------



## Magmod

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Hi Magmod, you say that we like to add "el" to some borrowed Spanish words. It is not a question of "we like to do that". As you know "el/the" is "al" in Arabic, but if "al" is followed by a word beginning with certain consonants (d,s,t, and some other) that "L" drops and changes to the first consonant of the following word.
> al + tar... = attar.... (atarazana)
> al + dar... = addar... (adarve)
> 
> 
> The Spaniards, who didn´t know that "al" was the definite article, and knew nothing about that linguistic rule in Arabic.


 
Helo diegodbs.
I'm impressed by the examples you mentioned of repeating the same things and I agree with your reasoning.
 But I am surprised that you say the Spaniards did *not* know that "al" was *not* the definite article and knew nothing about that basic linguistic rule 
I think it is much deeper than that. Ofcourse your ancestors the Spaniards knew. There were millions of Arabs in Spain to tell them. You think the Spaniards could use many thousands of Arabic words for centuries and not know that al = el .
The Spaniards went deep into the Arabic language, grammar and culture. For example, Spanish is like Arabic - in that each letter has one sound. As you probably know there are a lot of unique similarities in their grammars.
 I think that your ancesters knew very well al =el, but chose to accommodate the rule in Spanish grammar and dictionaries. The examples you gave prove the rule. *Alcantarilla* is a Spanish word and obviously they knew the root word Alqantra = the bridge in Arabic, yet they continued to apply the rule of doubling the words. 

 Most likely reason for doubling is to do with the way people were speaking and it was impossible to make them change their habits. Similar reasoning to why there are so many irregular verbs. *Old habits die hard  *

Regards


----------



## diegodbs

Magmod said:
			
		

> Helo diegodbs.
> I'm impressed by the examples you mentioned of repeating the same things and I agree with your reasoning.
> But I am surprised that you say the Spaniards did *not* know that "al" was *not* the definite article and knew nothing about that basic linguistic rule
> I think it is much deeper than that. Ofcourse your ancestors the Spaniards knew. There were millions of Arabs in Spain to tell them. You think the Spaniards could use many thousands of Arabic words for centuries and not know that al = el .
> The Spaniards went deep into the Arabic language, grammar and culture. For example, Spanish is like Arabic - in that each letter has one sound. As you probably know there are a lot of unique similarities in their grammars.
> I think that your ancesters knew very well al =el, but chose to accommodate the rule in Spanish grammar and dictionaries. The examples you gave prove the rule. *Alcantarilla* is a Spanish word and obviously they knew the root word Alqantra = the bridge in Arabic, yet they continued to apply the rule of doubling the words.
> 
> Most likely reason for doubling is to do with the way people were speaking and it was impossible to make them change their habits. Similar reasoning to why there are so many irregular verbs. *Old habits die hard  *
> 
> Regards


 
Hola Magmod, en lo que dices no estoy de acuerdo contigo al 100%, pero eso está bien, de la discrepancia nace el conocimiento. La lengua árabe en España no era hablada por la población hispano-romana; éstos siguieron hablando sus variedades de latín tardío o latín vulgar. La inmensa mayoría de esa población no hablaba árabe, y cuando la Reconquista fue avanzando de norte a sur de la península, los cristianos no tenían que enseñar español en las regiones conquistadas, ya se hablaba (lógicamente con mezcla de algunas palabras árabes). ¿Por qué no se impuso a la población hispano-romana la lengua de los conquistadores? No lo sé. Nosotros sí lo hicimos en América. La aristocracia gobernante árabe, su literatura, su ciencia, etc sí se escribía en árabe, pero los intermediarios entre los califas o los emires se comunicaban con la población hispano-romana en ese latín tardío que luego sería español. 800 años de historia militar, social y lingüística no se pueden explicar aquí en cuatro líneas, caeríamos en simplificaciones exageradas. Pero es un tema interesantísimo y apasionante, al menos para mí
Un saludo.


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## ayed

Here is a word "Tannoor"(تنور) Tandoor od Arabic origin.

Definition : a cylindrical clay oven in which food is cooked over charcoal 
Source : 
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tandoor

Thank you all
Ayed's regards


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## Magmod

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Hola Magmod, en lo que dices no estoy de acuerdo contigo al 100%, pero eso está bien, de la discrepancia nace el conocimiento. La lengua árabe en España no era hablada por la población hispano-romana; éstos siguieron hablando sus variedades de latín tardío o latín vulgar. La inmensa mayoría de esa población no hablaba árabe, y cuando la Reconquista fue avanzando de norte a sur de la península, los cristianos no tenían que enseñar español en las regiones conquistadas, ya se hablaba (lógicamente con mezcla de algunas palabras árabes). ¿Por qué no se impuso a la población hispano-romana la lengua de los conquistadores? No lo sé. Nosotros sí lo hicimos en América. La aristocracia gobernante árabe, su literatura, su ciencia, etc sí se escribía en árabe, pero los intermediarios entre los califas o los emires se comunicaban con la población hispano-romana en ese latín tardío que luego sería español. 800 años de historia militar, social y lingüística no se pueden explicar aquí en cuatro líneas, caeríamos en simplificaciones exageradas. Pero es un tema interesantísimo y apasionante, al menos para mí
> Un saludo.


 
  Estoy de acuerdo contigo en lo que dices especialmente con este frase “800 años de historia militar, social y lingüística no se pueden explicar aquí en cuatro líneas, caeríamos en simplificaciones exageradas” 
  Pero en mi opinión el pueble español en colegios etc. se lavó el cerebro con la Conquista. No había una Conquista en España pero  una guerra civil que tardío 200 á 300 años. 
  Ej. El Guzmán el Bueno era un musulmán y El Cid era no más que un mercenario. El Rey Peter I de Sevilla y el Rey Mohammed V el último rey de Granda eran amigos. En Sevilla Peter I construyó un palacio que existe hoy de estilo árabe  con arquitectura similar del La Alhambra  con versos del Corán sur la paredes etc. últimamente Cuando los Musulmanes  expulsaban de España cerca 1620? Era el final de Época del Oro de España por razones conocidos y el perdido de las colonias en América. 
  En mi opinión estos musulmanes eran españoles como los cristianos. Los Árabes nunca se impuso a la población hispano la religión musulmana porque Jesús y Moses  eran  profetas musulmanes muy importantes y los Árabes antes de Mohammed eran cristianos y judías en Meca, Medina y el resto de la península árabe. 
  Eso es la repuesta de tu pregunta:
¿Por qué no se impuso a la población hispano-romana la lengua de los conquistadores?  Simplemente no había un Conquista pero una guerra civil.
 
 
 
Por favor corrija todo de mis errores


----------



## Outsider

Another word: _couscous!_


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## Magmod

Outsider said:
			
		

> Another word:_couscous_ _!_


 
Where is the proof that *couscous* is Arabic? 
Cous = vagina in Arabic and sounds vulgar  . Perhaps it is of Berber origin of North Africa  

 There is a Turkish dish called Ayran = yogurt which again I doubt that is of Arabic origin because Ayran could mean two penes in Arabic  

Regards


----------



## Samo

couscous Arabic from Tamazigh seksu


----------



## Magmod

Samo said:
			
		

> couscous Arabic from Tamazigh seksu


 
 But couscous does not sound anything like _Tamazigh seksu?_ 
 Another Arabic word for couscous is burghul.

 However in the Oxford dictionary _couscous_ originates from Arabic _kaskasa_ = to pound


----------



## MarcB

Samo is right,pls see:
http://www.cliffordawright.com/history/couscous_history.html
i-cias.com/e.o/*couscous*.htm
http://www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/Maghreb
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Couscous
http://pedia.nodeworks.com/M/MA/MAG/Maghreb
also couscous was until recently virtually unknow in the Arab world outside the maghreb. even today it is a foreign dish although available in many countries around the world.


----------



## Magmod

MarcB said:
			
		

> Samo is right,pls see:
> http://www.cliffordawright.com/history/couscous_history.html
> i-cias.com/e.o/*couscous*.htm
> http://www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/Maghreb
> http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Couscous
> http://pedia.nodeworks.com/M/MA/MAG/Maghreb


 
I looked through the websites, so is the word *couscous* of Arabic or Berber origin?  

Regards


----------



## Outsider

It looks like the word is originally from a Berber language, although it's best known internationally through its Arabic version.


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## lounalove95

yes!!! we can see it in spanish !!!
we know, we manage... lol zaama


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## jmx

diegodbs said:
			
		

> ... cuando la Reconquista fue avanzando de norte a sur de la península, los cristianos no tenían que enseñar español en las regiones conquistadas, ya se hablaba (lógicamente con mezcla de algunas palabras árabes). ¿Por qué no se impuso a la población hispano-romana la lengua de los conquistadores? No lo sé.


2 clarifications :

- The language spoken by average people in muslim Spain in the middle ages was not Spanish, but "mozarabe", a romance language (maybe several of them) close enough to Spanish to make the transition not too difficult.

- The fact that arabs didn't impose their language in Spain makes no difference to what they did elsewhere: 500 years after the fall of Granada, about one third of moroccans have a berber language as their mother tongue. And in Egypt, in the middle of the arab world, Coptic survived as a spoken language until the 17th century. Link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_language


----------



## jmx

Magmod said:
			
		

> The Spaniards went deep into the Arabic language, grammar and culture. For example, Spanish is like Arabic - in that each letter has one sound. As you probably know there are a lot of unique similarities in their grammars.


I've often heard about the amazing parallelisms between the Spanish and Arabic languages, but I'm still waiting to know which exactly these parallelisms are. The one you provide about the correspondence between letters and sounds looks very superficial to me, to be frank.

Could you give further examples of those similarities ?


----------



## Magmod

jmartins said:
			
		

> I've often heard about the amazing parallelisms between the Spanish and Arabic languages, but I'm still waiting to know which exactly these parallelisms are. The one you provide about the correspondence between letters and sounds looks very superficial to me, to be frank.
> 
> Could you give further examples of those similarities ?


I don’t know why you think it is superficial.  
  In my opinion, one of the major disadvantages of  French, probably Catalan, English and other European languages is the difficuly in making the spoken words spelt like the written word. In this respect  Spanish has this advantage and it is in a better shape than  Arabic. 
  On the whole the Structure of Spanish grammar is not Arabic. Obviously is mainly Latin. Analysing language structure however is difficult and needs a linguist.
In my opinion if any Spanish rule of grammar or words that is not derived from say Latin or  known European languages then it can be assumed that it probably came to Spain via the Arabs. 
 In Spanish the noun ending like”–ía” is probably Arabic like zapatería, tontería etc
The strong r, rr, Ñ,=eñe sound, J=jota sound etc 
You probably could tell me whether –ll- elle sound exists in Catalan and French and its origin. As I explained if you find a difference between Spanish and Catalan+ French in whatever aspect, then it is worth making analysis and these could be the further examples you are looking for? As for example the origin of that accent “~” on ñ. This could be Arabic if it does not exist in other European languages before it came to Spanish.
  I am not a linguist but a civil engineer and I wish if one could write a university thesis on this topic. However since  Spanish is composed  18% of Arabic words then probably this influence needs to be analysed.
  When nowadays this world adopts Americanism it is more than just their words but their way of looking at things and psyche.
 
Regards


----------



## jmx

Magmod said:
			
		

> I don’t know why you think it is superficial.
> In my opinion, one of the major disadvantages of French, probably Catalan, English and other European languages is the difficuly in making the spoken words spelt like the written word. In this respect Spanish has this advantage and it is in a better shape than Arabic.
> On the whole the Structure of Spanish grammar is not Arabic. Obviously is mainly Latin. Analysing language structure however is difficult and needs a linguist.
> In my opinion if any Spanish rule of grammar or words that is not derived from say Latin or known European languages then it can be assumed that it probably came to Spain via the Arabs.
> In Spanish the noun ending like”–ía” is probably Arabic like zapatería, tontería etc
> The strong r, rr, Ñ,=eñe sound, J=jota sound etc
> You probably could tell me whether –ll- elle sound exists in Catalan and French and its origin. As I explained if you find a difference between Spanish and Catalan+ French in whatever aspect, then it is worth making analysis and these could be the further examples you are looking for? As for example the origin of that accent “~” on ñ. This could be Arabic if it does not exist in other European languages before it came to Spanish.
> I am not a linguist but a civil engineer and I wish if one could write a university thesis on this topic. However since Spanish is composed 18% of Arabic words then probably this influence needs to be analysed.
> When nowadays this world adopts Americanism it is more than just their words but their way of looking at things and psyche.
> 
> Regards


I'm not a linguist either, and furthermore I don't know any Arabic, so my opinion is not authoritative in any way. But I have an intuition, so to speak, that theories linking Spain and the Arabs are sort of "romantic" and therefore can be more attractive than accurate.

These are the facts I'm aware of :

- English and French are the 2 european languages with the worst spelling system. Most other european languages have a reasonably good correspondence between spelling and pronunciation, and Spanish is one with a particularly easy spelling, for the simple reason that it has a short number of phonemes, and therefore hardly any new sign is needed, in fact only one, the 'ñ'. Now, to throw in Arabic here is, I insist, very superficial in my opinion.

Not all changes in a language need an "extern influence" to be explained. In fact it has been proved that even isolated languages without any contact with other languages change at roughly the same pace that other tongues. So, again, assuming that any feature of Spanish not present in other european languages must be of Arabic origin is pretty superficial.

About the "-ía" suffix, it exists and is common in Catalan, and I think also in Italian (this point should be confirmed).

The "weak r / strong r" difference exists in all the languages in the Iberian peninsula, including Basque.

The "ñ" sound exists, with exactly the same pronunciation, and different spellings, in Catalan, Portuguese, French and Italian. Also in Basque.

The spanish "j" sound doesn't exist in the rest of Romance languages, but again doesn't need the influence of Arabic to be explained. It's worth noting that in southern Spain this sound is very relaxed and often, just like 'h' in British English, it's completely 'dropped'.

The sign over the 'n' on the 'ñ' was originally a 'double n'. This is explained in some other thread. I'm afraid I don't have the time to look for it right now.

Lastly, the number of Spanish words of Arabic origin is generally assessed at around 5%.

Of course there could be some influence of Arabic in Spanish apart from the vocabulary, I don't deny that. But the trouble is that all of the similarities that I've heard of up to this day lack a serious study behind them.


----------



## Magmod

jmartins said:
			
		

> I'm not a linguist either, and furthermore I don't know any Arabic, so my opinion is not authoritative in any way. But I have an intuition, so to speak, that theories linking Spain and the Arabs are sort of "romantic" and therefore can be more attractive than accurate.
> 
> These are the facts I'm aware of :
> 
> - English and French are the 2 european languages with the worst spelling system. Most other european languages have a reasonably good correspondence between spelling and pronunciation, and Spanish is one with a particularly easy spelling, for the simple reason that it has a short number of phonemes, and therefore hardly any new sign is needed, in fact only one, the 'ñ'. Now, to throw in Arabic here is, I insist, very superficial in my opinion.
> 
> Not all changes in a language need an "extern influence" to be explained. In fact it has been proved that even isolated languages without any contact with other languages change at roughly the same pace that other tongues. So, again, assuming that any feature of Spanish not present in other european languages must be of Arabic origin is pretty superficial.
> 
> About the "-ía" suffix, it exists and is common in Catalan, and I think also in Italian (this point should be confirmed).
> 
> The "weak r / strong r" difference exists in all the languages in the Iberian peninsula, including Basque.
> 
> The "ñ" sound exists, with exactly the same pronunciation, and different spellings, in Catalan, Portuguese, French and Italian. Also in Basque.
> 
> The spanish "j" sound doesn't exist in the rest of Romance languages, but again doesn't need the influence of Arabic to be explained. It's worth noting that in southern Spain this sound is very relaxed and often, just like 'h' in British English, it's completely 'dropped'.
> 
> The sign over the 'n' on the 'ñ' was originally a 'double n'. This is explained in some other thread. I'm afraid I don't have the time to look for it right now.
> 
> Lastly, the number of Spanish words of Arabic origin is generally assessed at around 5%.
> 
> Of course there could be some influence of Arabic in Spanish apart from the vocabulary, I don't deny that. But the trouble is that all of the similarities that I've heard of up to this day lack a serious study behind them.


Hello
  I am an expert in Arabic but a learner of Spanish. 
 Historically when people move they take their language with them. Because some Indian tribes immigrated into empty Europe about 10000 years ago the future generations of Europe are influenced by Sanskrit, and the people look more or less like Indians, if you take account of less sun and Darwinian theories. 
   Where Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand are buried there are verses of the Koran on the walls where they are buried. You sound as if there were a resistance and animosity against the Arabic language which I don’t think existed in 1492. It is not like the French official body trying in the past to desencourage the use of English in French.
 
  The –ía sound and ~  sign are very common in Arabic almost 1000 years before it came to Spanish. The Arabs were in Catalan, Portugal and Italy. Spain never been isolated in Modern Times. There are a lot more examples similar to these.
  Double n spelling is still allowed in Spanish (so why use ~? ) In my opinion, the way the Spanish pronounce the -rr and –j is not Latin.
  The 18% figure came from the Spanish teacher when I did a course in Malaga.
Are there any differences between Catalan and Spanish on the lines I have mentioned? Did the Spanish not influence the Catalan more than vice versa?
Regards


----------



## Swettenham

Magmod said:
			
		

> In my opinion, the way the Spanish pronounce the -rr and –j is not Latin.


That's the problem.  Opinions have little value in a discussion of history.  Research is more important.

Here is some information on the history of Spanish:

http://spanish.about.com/od/historyofspanish/

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1E1:Spanlang&ctrlInfo=Round18%3AMode18c%3ADocG%3AResult&ao=

http://www.alsintl.com/languages/spanish.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Spanish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influences_on_the_Spanish_language

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Influences_on_the_Spanish_language

http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/arabicspanish.htm

http://www.trustedtranslations.com/castilian_spanish.asp

Arabic added a great deal of vocabulary to the Spanish language (an estimated 5000 words), and Visigoth also had a substantial influence.  But essentially, Spanish evolved directly from Latin.


----------



## Outsider

jmartins said:
			
		

> About the "-ía" suffix, it exists and is common in Catalan, and I think also in Italian (this point should be confirmed).


And in French: _-ie_. And English, I think: _-y_.



			
				Magmod said:
			
		

> Double n spelling is still allowed in Spanish (so why use ~? )


Because it was a new sound. The evolution of the sign ñ is well documented in Medieval texts. It started out as _nn_, as Jmartins wrote. In Portuguese, the tilde ~ also appeared (and still appears) over other letters, usually indicating an ancient _n_ from Latin which had stopped being pronounced. In European Medieval texts in general, ~ was often used over a letter, in abbreviations.
This trick of denoting obsolete letters as small subscripts or superscripts was first employed in Greek, if I'm not mistaken. In Medieval Greek texts, you can see small subscript iotas, for instance.



			
				Magmod said:
			
		

> In my opinion, the way the Spanish pronounce the -rr and –j is not Latin.


There's nothing special about the Spanish pronunciation of _rr_. It's identical to the Italian pronunciation, the ancient Portuguese pronunciation, the pronunciation in Southern and ancient French, etc., and is thus, very likely, identical to the pronunciation of that grapheme in Latin.

The Spanish pronunciation of _j_ is indeed original, but curiously, it only became the norm around the time of the Renaissance--centuries after most of the Peninsula had ceased to be Arabic. During the Middle Ages, when Muslims still had a significant presence in the Peninsula, Spanish _j_ was likely pronounced as it is in English, today.


----------



## Magmod

Swettenham said:
			
		

> That's the problem. Opinions have little value in a discussion of history. Research is more important.





			
				Swettenham said:
			
		

> Here is some information on the history of Spanish:
> 
> http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Influences_on_the_Spanish_language
> 
> http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/arabicspanish.htm
> 
> 
> But essentially, Spanish evolved directly from Latin.



  I looked at the websites. They are very interesting and I learned many Spanish words.
  however, I don’t know why you state that opinions have little value. Interpretation of  research is mainly based on opinions. 
  For example in my opinion I always thought that usted is derived from Arabic, especially when a Spaniard pronounce the usted as "usteth" then any Arab, Pakistani, Persian etc. will know it is an address of respect as exactly used in Spanish. But all references are that usted is derived from vusted etc. In the first website you mentioned it does state that usted is derived from a very common  Arabic word "Ustath". So I did my research  but I still has to decide subjectively from where usted is derived. So is my opinion has little value?   
 
  In the second website it does state that word forms that ends –í ( or in my opinion it is more accurate as –ía in Spanish ) is derived from Arabic.
 
 I partially agree with you about Latin – see post #112 above.
 
Regards


----------



## diegodbs

In Spain, not only "usted" is commonly pronounced "usteth", but almost every word ending in -d. In central Spain and in Madrid, that's the way how final -d is pronounced. All over Andalucía, the final -d is dropped, and in Catalonia is usually pronounced -t when they speak Castilian

Madrid and central Spain (ustez, verdaz, cantidaz, realidaz)
Andalucía (usté, verdá, cantidá, realidá)
Catalonia (ustet, verdat, cantidat, realidat) (these are not catalan words, this is only the way they use to pronounce Spanish words ending in -d)


----------



## Outsider

Another thing to note is that the development from "vuestra merced" to "usted" in Sanish parallels very well the development "vossa mercê" -> "vossemecê" -> "vosmecê" -> "você" in Portuguese, and "você" doesn't sound anything like "ustath"...

Can anyone find some information on when the word "usted" began to be used?


----------



## suzie_pales

hello everyyybodyyy...
theres also in malteese language ALOT of words thats orginally is from arabic such as :
bib.........'' bab'' in arabic
ohti........''okhti'' in arabic
nrid........''oreed''in arabic
nhobok....''ahebak''
kif inti?......''keef enta''
and also manywords........

suzie


----------



## Swettenham

Hi Magmod 


			
				Magmod said:
			
		

> I don’t know why you state that opinions have little value. Interpretation of  research is mainly based on opinions.


That's true.  But research comes first.  Without research, opinions have little value.  I guess that's what I should have said!


> For example in my opinion I always thought that usted is derived from Arabic, especially when a Spaniard pronounce the usted as "usteth" then any Arab, Pakistani, Persian etc. will know it is an address of respect as exactly used in Spanish. But all references are that usted is derived from vusted etc. In the first website you mentioned it does state that usted is derived from a very common  Arabic word "Ustath". So I did my research  but I still has to decide subjectively from where usted is derived. So is my opinion has little value?


It does imply that.  Their source was "research conducted during the National Endowment for the Humanities' National Arabic Language and Culture Institute at The Ohio State University during the summers of 1994 and 1995."  Does anyone have evidence for the other theory?


> In the second website it does state that word forms that ends –í ( or in my opinion it is more accurate as –ía in Spanish ) is derived from Arabic.


Read further.  It says:


> Morphological borrowing was scarce. The suffíx -í (deriving adjectives from place names, in as iraquí "Iraqi, Iraq's") is an example.


They're talking about "Iraquí," not "zapatería, tontería."  The "-ía" suffix is Latin.


> I partially agree with you about Latin – see post #112 above.
> 
> Regards


You're right; you did state that Spanish grammar derives from Latin.  

In general, Arabic contributed some vocabulary to European languages— in Spanish this accounts for about 5,000 words, in the other languages a lower figure.  But Middle Eastern culture  had a much larger impact in other areas, such as science, technology, and philosophy.  In fact, this is precisely the reason why Arabic has contributed certain vocabulary.  You will notice that in most European languages besides Spanish, the most prominent and common Arabic-origin vocabulary generally pertains to mathematics and science: Algebra, zenith, zero, alchemy. The point is that Arabic did not do much to shape Spanish into what it is (aside from those 5,000 words), but Arabic culture did help shape European culture, and it was inevitable that such influence would reveal itself in language.  That is, when we learned about science from Arab-speakers, we also adopted some of their scientific terminology. But when we did so, those terms became absorbed into languages that had evolved from Romantic and Germanic roots.  Those Romantic and Germanic roots, in turn, sprung from an ancient source in Asia known as Proto-Indo-European, the same source from which Sanskrit and Farsi developed.

Cheers


----------



## Outsider

Since we're getting a little off topic, I decided to resurrect an old thread: 'usted'. See my post at the bottom of the page.


----------



## MarcB

Hi I started the thread that our estimed colleague Outsider referred to. Usted. Another thing to note is that the development from disagree:"vuestra merced" to "usted" in Sanish parallels very well the development "vossa mercê" -> "vossemecê" -> "vosmecê" -> "você" in Portuguese, and "você" doesn't sound anything like "ustath"...

Can anyone find some information on when the word "usted" began to be used?I think this unanswered ? has two sides.often we see that usted could have been contracted from vuestra merced.

but consider Usted classical Araic Ustadh north Africa Usted(ustaz eastern Arabic)yes became Spanish centuries after the reconquista. However diferrent languages coexist andthe change could have taken place later. So I conclued, as this debate has been around for


----------



## coulumeta

Hi!
In Spanish we say that every word beginning with the prefix Al-, has an Arabic origin, I don´t think it applies to every English word but it should to some like:
alcove
algorithm
alabaster


----------



## aqidah

Italian words of Arabic origin

Salamelecchi (to give a lot of greetings) from Salam alaykum

Gatto (cat) from qitta

Marsala (city in Southern Italy) from Mars-Allah

Darsena / arsenale (military weapons) from dar al-sina‘

Aguzzino (criminal) from al-wazir, which means instead minister, vizir.

Alfiere (flag bearer or piece of the chess) from al-fil (elephant).

Ammiraglio (admiral) from amª°r (commander, prince, governor)

Ascaro (soldier of the colonies) from askari (soldier).

Assassino (killer) from hashishiyya

Cassero (the highest part of a castel) from Qasr (fortress, castel)

Dogana (custom, where the crago or merchandice are checked) from diwan.

Facchino (porter) from faqª°h

Fondaco (hostel for traveller and merchants) from funduq (hotel)

Magazzino (store) from makhāzin.

Ragazzo (boy) from raqqa¯sò, which in the Moroccan dialect means messenger, postman

Sensale (which makes sense) from simsa¯r (mediator)

Caffet(t)ano from quftān.

Cremisi (a color) from qirmizī (colour of cochineal)

Gabbana (tunic) from qabā’.

Giubba (jacket) from jubba.

Ricamare (embroider) from raqama.

Scarlatto (scarlet) from saqirlat (red dress dyed with cochineal)

Baldacchino (canopy) from the adjective baghdadi (from Baghdad).

Caraffa (carafe) from the Moroccan dialect 'garrafa' .

Giara (jar) from jarra.

materasso (matress) from matrah.

Tazza (mug, cup) from tāsa

Zerbino (doormat) from zirbiyy (carpet, pillow)

Lacca (coloured substance of natural origins used to decorate objects) from lakk

Ottone (brass) from latūn.

Tarsia (decorative tecnique of craving wood or a stone) from tarsī‘,.

Albicocca (apricot) from al-barqu¯q (plum)

Arancio (orange) from na¯rangÍ.

Carciofo (artichoke) from hursÍu¯f 

Limone (lemon) from laimun

Marzapane (marzipan) from martaban

Zafferano (saffron) from za‘faran

Zagara from zahra (flower)

Algebra (algebra) from ‘ilm al-gÍabr 

Algoritmo from the name of the mathematician al-Khwarizmi

Almagesto (book of astronomy) from al-Magisti

Almanacco (calendar) from al-mana¯hŠ

Cifra (digit) from sifr (zero)

Nadir (opposite of zenit) from nadhir)

Alambicco (instrument used in chemistry)  from al-anbiq

Alchimia from Al-kimiya

Alcol (alcohol) from kuhòul

Elisir (kind of liquor) from al-iksir

Bizzeffe (in great quantity) from Moroccan Arabic bizzaf (a lot)

Garbo (kindness, good manner) from qalib (model)

Meschino (mean, narrow, poor) from miskiin (poor)

Scacco (checkmate (chess) from shāh māt (the king is dead)

Zecca (coin) from sikka


----------



## goll

Hi guys! I am new here 
nice thread Whodunit 

I have this list of words a friend emailed me a couple of weeks ago :

apricot  = Portuguese albricoque or Spanish albaricoque, from Spanish Arabic al 'the' + 

barkuk

arsenal =     noun a store of weapons and ammunition. Øa military establishment where 

weapons and ammunition are made and stored. 
 based on Arabic "al tarasana" or dar-as-sina‘a ( maybe??), from dar 'house' + al- '(of) 

the' + sina‘a (9ina3a) 'art, industry'.

cotton = from Arabic kutn.

dinar (the basic monetary unit of Bosnia and the Union of Serbia and Montenegro) = from 

Arabic dinar

genie = a jinn or spirit from Arabic jinni

henna (A reddish brown dye used especially on hair) = from Arabia hinna ( or 7inna)

and "hummus" can't one consider this a international word (??)
( made from peas, olive oil, lemon... I love hummus  )

jar (A vessel (usually cylindrical) with a wide mouth and without handles) = from Arabic 

jarra.

jerboa (Mouselike jumping rodent) = from Arabic " jarboo3"

jumper (pullover or sweater) =  via Old French from Arabic jubba.


magazine = The term magazine comes from the French word magasin, which derives from an 

Arabic word meaning 'storehouse' (makhazin ). In the 16th century magazine in English meant 

'store'; it was often used in the title of books providing information for particular groups 

of people, giving rise to sense 1. The sense 'a store for arms' survives as a specialised 

use of the original sense, dating from the late 16th century.


mattress = from Arabic "matrah / ma6ra7" "place, carpet or cushion)

minaret = Arabic manar(a) 'lighthouse, minaret', based on nar 'fire or light'.

ream ( sheets of paper) = from Arabic "rizma/rozma" which means bundle

safari (overland journey ) =  from Arabic safara 'to travel'.

soda = from Arabic suwwad 'saltwort'.

spinach = from Arabic asapanikh 
sesame = from Arabic simsim


sumac = from Arabic summak

typhoon(tropical storm occurring in the W Pacific or Indian oceans)= from Arabic tufan


cumin (Dwarf Mediterranean annual long cultivated for its aromatic seeds) = from Arabic 

kammoon


@aqidah Thanks for the italian words


----------



## Pivra

I would like to know about all the Spanish words that derived from Arabic.
Spanish is my third language and i am still learning it ... after i am successful in Spanish i might go on doing Arabic.

Thx U very much...


----------



## drei_lengua

ojalá comes from O Allah.  Also, any Spanish word starting with "al" like alquilar comes from Arabic.  Let's learn some more from the other forum members.

drei_lengua


----------



## ayed

Pivra said:
			
		

> I would like to know about all the Spanish words that derived from Arabic.
> Spanish is my third language and i am still learning it ... after i am successful in Spanish i might go on doing Arabic.
> 
> Thx U very much...


welcome Pivra.

There are many , many Spanish words , terms and expressions of Arabic origin .Here are some valleys , rivers , areas and others such as:
Spanish word ---> Arabic modern Transliteration --- >English 

Guadalquivir/al-Wadi al-Kabeer/Large valley​ 
Alcazar/al-Qasr/The palace
Calatrava/Qil'at rabah/Rabah' Castle
Medinaceli/Madinat Salim/Salim's city 
Alqueria/al-Qaryah/The village 
Zocodover/Sooq al-Dawabb/Cattle market 
Azud/al-Sadd/Dam
Alberca/al-Barkah/Waterpool 
Jazmines/al-Yasameen/Jasmine 
Albahaca/al-Habaq/Basil 
Alhucema/al-Khozama/lavender tulip
Albaricoques/al-Barqooq/ apricot
Berenjenas/Bathinjan/ eggplant
Arroz /Arozz/Rice
Azafran/al-Za'faran/Saffron or crocus
Alboroque/al-Barakah/blessing
Almacen/al-Makhzan/warehouse or storehouse 
Alhonedija/al-Fondoq/Hotel 
Azojue/al-Sooq/market 
Alcoba/al-Qobbah/dome 
Alfayate/al-Khayyat/Tailor 
Alhamei/al-Hammal/porter 
Adufes/al-Doff/ tambourine(,usical instrument)
Atabales/al-Tabil/Drum(musical instrument) 
Laudes/al-Uoud/Lute(musical instrument) 
Guitarras/Qitharah/ guitar
Jabeja/al-Shabakah/Net(for fishing) 
Aljodon/al-Qoton/Cotton 
Zarajuelles/Saraweel/Underpants or trousers

Tarrif/tarifah/tax​
Alhena/al-Hinna/green leaves dried and grinded , used as a paint which turns in red color
Algazul/al-Ghasool/mouthwash​
​Have good times​

Ayed's regards


----------



## Magmod

Hi
 I have concluded that California is derived from the Arabic word Caliph: a ruler who keeps a harem of women for his pleasure, like an island of paradise, as follows:

The name California already existed prior to the European discovery and exploration of the area. The first appearance of the name was in the Song of Roland, an 11th century epic poem from Brittany, which refers to the defeat suffered August 15, 778 in the retreat of Charlemagne's army at the hands of the Saracens in Battle of Roncevaux Pass in the Pyrenees. On line 2924 of the poem, which is in verse number CCIX (209), the word _Califerne_ is used, without indicating its meaning. One possibility is that it refers to the domain of the Caliph, i.e. the Muslim world. 
 The Saracens were Arabs to the Europeans and therefore the Califerne must refer to the Caliph.
This notion of a place of women without men echoes a passage from the diary of Christopher Columbus's first voyage in 1492:
_"Dixéronle los indios que por aquella vía hallaría la isla de Matinino, que diz que era poblada de mujeres sin hombres..."_
The Indians said that along that route one would find the island of Matinino, which they said was populated by women without men..."

In the minds of European explorers, California existed as an idea before it was ever discovered. The earliest known mention of the _idea_ of California was in the 1510 romance novel _Las Sergas de Esplandián_ by Spanish author García Ordóñez de Montalvo. The book described the Island of California as being west of the Indies, "very close to the side of the Terrestrial Paradise; and it is peopled by black women, without any man among them.
  The lure of an earthly paradise, as well as the search for the fabled Strait of Anián, helped motivate Hernán Cortés, following his conquest of Mexico, to send several expeditions in the late 1530s and early 1540s to the west coast of New Spain. The first expedition reached the Gulf of California and Baja California, and proved that California was in fact a peninsula. Nevertheless, the idea that California was an island persisted for well over a century and was included on many maps. The Spanish gave the name "California" to the peninsula and to the lands north, including both Baja California and Alta California, the region that became the present-day U.S. state.
 
"_Sabed que a la diestra mano de las Indias existe una isla llamada *California* muy cerca de un costado del Paraíso Terrenal; y estaba poblada por mujeres negras, sin que existiera allí un hombre..."_
"Know that on the right hand from the Indies exists an island called *California* very close to Earthly Paradise; and it was populated by black women, without any man existing there..."


 I have therefore concluded without any shadow of doubt that California is derived from the Arabic word Calif. 
García Ordóñez de Montalvo would have used this idea that a Caliph will have in his harem only women, a bit like an island (i.e. harem) of paradise especially for sex-starved seamen of Spain in America  
Regards


----------



## elroy

I have merged Pivra's "Arabic and Spanish" thread with this one.  Please post all related comments in this thread.  Thanks.


----------



## cherine

Magmod said:
			
		

> California is derived from the Arabic word Caliph: a ruler who keeps a harem of women for his pleasure


I wonder where you got this "knowledgeable definition"


----------



## Magmod

cherine said:
			
		

> I wonder where you got this "knowledgeable definition"


Which definition: California, Caliph, Harem ...?


----------



## cherine

The one I quoted: that a Caliph is a ruler who keeps a harem of women for his pleasure


----------



## diegodbs

Pivra said:
			
		

> I would like to know about all the Spanish words that derived from Arabic.
> Spanish is my third language and i am still learning it ... after i am successful in Spanish i might go on doing Arabic.
> 
> Thx U very much...


 
Here you have a small list of Spanish words of Arabic origin.


----------



## Magmod

cherine said:
			
		

> The one I quoted: that a Caliph is a ruler who keeps a harem of women for his pleasure


 Try  Caliph in the post.
  In the eyes of the Europeans, Caliphs in Al Hambra, Spain or Istanbul etc. kept Harems. Also Islam allows ordinary men to have 4 wives. 
Regards


----------



## cherine

Yes but this doesn't mean a caliph IS a ruler who have a harem !
Anyway, we're getting off topic, and i don't think this is a proper place for such "stereotypes" discussion.


----------



## Magmod

cherine said:
			
		

> Yes but this doesn't mean a caliph IS a ruler who have a harem !


 
 Only in the context that Cortes thought that California was an island full of black women and the reason he gave the name California in 1540 was a development of:
Song of Roland  in 778
Diary of Christopher Columbus's first voyage in 1492
1510 romance novel _Las Sergas de Esplandián_
 
  In my opinion all other derivaions of the word California are not as plausible as the derivation from the word Caliph = Califa in Spanish.
Regards


----------



## Heba

By the way, the word bank is not originally Arabic, it became Arabic after being much used among people.

The Arabic word for bank is مصرف


----------



## Outsider

drei_lengua said:
			
		

> Also, any Spanish word starting with "al" like alquilar comes from Arabic.


Not so. Some Spanish words that start with _al_ + consonant do come from Arabic, but there are plenty that do not.

Note: the origin of the word California is the subject of another thread.


----------



## cherine

I agree with Outsider. Here's one proove, or example.


----------



## Outsider

Here's an even better counterexample, Cherine: almendra, from Greek via Latin.


----------



## nelshammaa

Hello everyone,

Can anyone help me compile a list of European words of Arabic origin?

Waiting your reply,
Thanks in advance,
Nehad


----------



## Jana337

nelshammaa said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Can anyone help me compile a list of European words of Arabic origin?
> 
> Waiting your reply,
> Thanks in advance,
> Nehad


Hi and welcome! 

I would think that this thread contains more than enough material for such a list; what exactly can the forum help you with? 

Jana


----------



## Magmod

nelshammaa said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Can anyone help me compile a list of European words of Arabic origin?
> 
> Waiting your reply,
> Thanks in advance,
> Nehad


Hello Nehad
Welcome. This is your first post  
 But there have been more than143 posts to date on this thread of Arabic words. So you need to look at all of them and then decide what specifically you want to contribute or ask on this thread.
Regards


----------



## Bienvenidos

Many, many Spanish words originate from Arabic. Most of them begin with -al. For example,

alfombra (rug)

I don't speak Arabic, and I'm not sure what the Arabic term that it was derived from. However, I do speak Farsi, and it may be a cognate.

*Bienvenidos*


----------



## Bienvenidos

SDH said:
			
		

> Hi all!
> There are some words in Russian with Arabic origin:
> 
> 1. *Sunduq* in Russian means... box (old box with some old things)...


 
Sunduq is also a Farsi word, having the same meaning, but more along the lines of a carrying case/ a container with objects in it. Perhaps the Farsi word also originated from Arabic/vice versa.

*Bienvenidos*


----------



## Magmod

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Sunduq is also a Farsi word, having the same meaning, but more along the lines of a carrying case/ a container with objects in it. Perhaps the Farsi word also originated from Arabic/vice versa.
> 
> *Bienvenidos*


Hi
Sunduq is a common Arabic word probably known all the way from Oman to Morocco. But to me it doesn’t sound of an Arabic origin. It could be an Ottoman (Turkish) or even Farsi origin  
  Alfombra that you mentioned earlier could be of Moroccan dialect. 
(Del ár. hisp. _alḥánbal_, especie de poyal o tapiz para estrados, aún muy usado en Marruecos, y este del ár. clás. _ḥanbal_, pelliza usada) - see WR dictionary.

  As you probably know the Arabs who settled in Spain came originally from Damascus, Syria and the second wave came from North Africa including Berbers. 

 For example Aldea is an Arabic/Spanish word for village or town which is only known to Arabs from Greater Syria i.e. Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine. Probably it wouldn’t exist in Farsi because most of the Arabic in Farsi came to Iran via Iraq. 

Obviously there are thousands of words in the Iraqi dialect, which came from Farsi and Turkish. I think the word Iraq, itself is a Farsi word meaning Low country. There is such area in Iran, which is also called Iraq. But some say Iraq came from a city in the North of Iraq called Urq  
Regards


----------



## Bienvenidos

I'm not sure but I found this at Wiktionary: 

*Iraq: *Possibly from Sumerian "Uruk" or "Warka" (Biblical "Erech") region in the south of ancient Iraq. Medieval Arabic uses 'Iraq' as a geographical term for the area in the south and center of the modern Iraq. Some Arabic sources say that Iraq comes from عريق (ʕarí:q, "deep-rooted"), from عرق (ʕirq, "root").

*Bienvenidos*


----------



## Tisia

Hi eveyone

Jana, I think Fakir is originally an Indian word. By the way, is the English word Earth taken from arabic word الارض?  

Regards
Tisia


----------



## tabarak

lol yeah i think it is, the same goes for the word sugar in english and sukar ( i dont have arabic keyboard). oh and also, arabic is MUCH older than english.


----------



## mansio

Faqir is an Arabic word and it is only a coincidence that arD and earth look similar.


----------



## admor82

Magmod said:
			
		

> Hi
> Sunduq is a common Arabic word probably known all the way from Oman to Morocco. But to me it doesn’t sound of an Arabic origin. It could be an Ottoman (Turkish) or even Farsi origin


Btw, Sunduq [сундук] in russian is chest; box.


أهلا بالجميع!  

But actually, I have recollected one word in Arabic رُتِين - routine. 

Whether it has come from Arabic to English or vice-versa ?


----------



## cherine

admor82 said:
			
		

> أهلا بالجميع !
> 
> But actually, I have recollected one word in Arabic رُتِين - routine.
> 
> Whether it has come from Arabic to English or vice-versa ?


 
أهلاً بك
The word routine is written like this in Arabic روتين and it's not an Arabic word, although I'm not sure where it originated from: English or French.


----------



## Bienvenidos

tabarak said:
			
		

> lol yeah i think it is, the same goes for the word sugar in english and sukar ( i dont have arabic keyboard). oh and also, arabic is MUCH older than english.


 
Sugar also shares its origin with "shakar" in Farsi.

More details..

Saludos y Suerte
*Bienvenidos*


----------



## Whodunit

cherine said:
			
		

> أهلاً بك
> The word routine is written like this in Arabic روتين and it's not an Arabic word, although I'm not sure where it originated from: English or French.


 
I'd derived from French, or more precisely from Middle French, from the word "route". I guess that Arabic just copied the word and "transformed" it into its own letters.


----------



## Josh_

I was doing some research on the web and came across this site that talks about Arabic influences on Spanish.  

http://www.alhewar.net/Basket/Habeeb_Salloum_Spanish_Language.htm

Scroll down about half way and there is a list of Spanish words of Arabic origins with explanations.


----------



## Alijsh

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for your interesting posts. I enjoyed a lot. For example, I didn’t know *toubib* is used in French.

NOTE - Users with less than 30 posts can include URL in their post (why so high?!!!) so I used http:/ to bypass limitation. To have links working add the missing slash to URL’s

* The origin of word *sugar *is either Sanskrit or Persian although it might have not been taken directly from either of these languages. Its new Persian: *shekar*, middle Persian (ca. 2300 years ago): *shakar*. http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar#History

The same applies to English *orange*, Spanish *naranja*. Its middle Persian and Sanskrit: *nârang*. http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_%28fruit%29

In Arabic since they don't have *g *sound they usually change it to *j* so nârang » nâranj. 

* *Lemon* also comes from Persian: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon#History

* *qand *(قند) means *sugar cubes *in Persian, so it doesn't have the same meaning as sugar.

* *cheque *(its banking meaning) is a middle Persian word: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheque. 

checkmate: We have *shâhmât*: *shâh *(king) + *mât *(stupefied/stunned. It doesn't mean "died/passed away"): http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate#Origin_of_the_word 

As I get from posts, its Arabic is *shaykh mât*. So in German, for example, they might have taken it from Arabic. In Persian we normally say *mât *(as in English: mate vs. checkmate). We should consider that Chess has been invented by Indians (mind Sanskrit) and Iranians know it since the beginning.

* I doubt *bank *is of Arabic origin!!! I read a post that said about putting money in bench. I think it's the origin of the word.

* As far as I know, *pajama *is from Persian *pâjâma *[*pâ*[y]: foot, leg; jâma: garment, clothing]. However, it has come to English thru Bengali: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajama 

* I don’t know about Iraq but Baghdad is a Persian word: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad#Nomenclature. No surprise when considering that capital of Parthian and Sassanid Empires has been in present-day Iraq for 800 years. 

***



			
				Magmod said:
			
		

> Another example, algorithm is derived from the name of that giant Arabic philosopher Al Khawarismi





			
				Magmod said:
			
		

> While Europe was in the dark ages and rejected multi athiesm of the Greeks, the Arabs re-introduced updated Greek knowledge back into Europe.


Dear Magmod, khwârazmi is Iranian. The words algorism and algorithm stem from Algoritmi, the Latinization of his name: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharazmi . So these words are also of Persian origin. Unfortunately, since Iranian scientists have written their works in Arabic, they have been considered Arab and you don’t see any name of Iranians and their key role. Almost all prominent so-called Arab scientists are Iranian: Avicenna (http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna), Rhases who discovered ethanol (alcohol): http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhases, etc. If you browse in Wikipedia you’ll notice. We must consider that even before Islam, Iranians have had Academy just like Greeks and even hospital: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Gundishapur . If you have any comment on this very topic, please either discuss in their related pages at Wikipedia or PM me.


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## linguist786

elroy said:
			
		

> shukkar is of Arabic origin AFAIK, (_Are you sure you didn't mean "sukkar"_) "Sukkar" is not an English word.  However, I'm not sure about "shukkar." She may have meant "chukkar," but according to Dictionary.com that's of Hindi origin.


What's the word that you're discussing here? Sugar?


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## savasorda

Alijsh said:


> Dear Magmod, khwârazmi is Iranian. The words algorism and algorithm stem from Algoritmi, the Latinization of his name: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharazmi . So these words are also of Persian origin. Unfortunately, since Iranian scientists have written their works in Arabic, they have been considered Arab and you don’t see any name of Iranians and their key role. Almost all prominent so-called Arab scientists are Iranian: Avicenna (http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna), Rhases who discovered ethanol (alcohol): http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhases, etc. If you browse in Wikipedia you’ll notice. We must consider that even before Islam, Iranians have had Academy just like Greeks and even hospital: http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Gundishapur . If you have any comment on this very topic, please either discuss in their related pages at Wikipedia or PM me.


Hi,
I am new here, and found this forum while looking for the origin of gazpacho (other subject)
I am very interested in etymology, but as most of you in the real one and going back to the real sources. I am also interested in history of science and am studying the real influences of the countries were arabic was the main language on western science.
Some people are overkilling the issue, others understating. I would like to keep the church an the minaret in the middle. And this is not an easy play: trying to be correct and not necessarily "politacal correct" but I would guess a civilisation gains more esteem when it gets the right attention: not more , not less.

For Alijsh, I would rather state that he was uzbek ;-) 
But in those days there was no really nationality. 
Almost all prominent so-called ... is also somewhat overstated, but yes, I agree that there were a lot

A site with some errors though you might want to check: 
*The MacTutor History of Mathematics archive*

  I can't post yet direct links... sorry

and you will find Persia also etc...

I am sure w'll stay in touch on these matters I am worjing on.


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## Magmod

Alijsh said:


> . khwârazmi is Iranian.


 Khwarazmi is of Iranian *origin* or Uzbek origin or whatever origin but he is regarded as an Arab because he was assimilated. Therefore the words associatd with his name or work are regarded as Arabic.

 You'll find the same rule applies to at least 90% of the North and South Americans who are of European origin.
Other examples are Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, kings and queens of UK who are mainly of French and German origin, Saladin, Khomaini, most Europeans, and almost any person.

 Everything is relative. Christopher Columbus discovered America but there were people there before him who discovered it before him. Therefore since the words like sugar, orange etc came into Europe by the Arabs then they are regarded as Arabic. 

Regards


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## savasorda

Magmod said:


> Khwarazmi is of Iranian *origin* or Uzbek origin or whatever origin but he is regarded as an Arab because he was assimilated. Therefore the words associatd with his name or work are regarded as Arabic.
> 
> You'll find the same rule applies to at least 90% of the North and South Americans who are of European origin.
> Other examples are Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, kings and queens of UK who are mainly of French and German origin, Saladin, Khomaini, most Europeans, and almost any person.
> 
> Everything is relative. Christopher Columbus discovered America but there were people there before him who discovered it before him. Therefore since the words like sugar, orange etc came into Europe by the Arabs then they are regarded as Arabic.
> 
> Regards


Magmod, you need to make a difference between the etnicity and the language. One could state that all scientists, philosophers etc in the middle ages were latin, as they wrote in latin. So it doesn't make sense to state that Al Kwararismi is Arab.

Another exemple: If you check the original title of the book of Adolf P. Youschkevitch "LES MATHÉMATIQUES ARABES (du VIIIè au XVè siècle)" in Russian: "mathematics in the countries of Islam" which is technically much more correct.

Same regarding sugar on etymonline: 
c.1289, from O.Fr. sucre "sugar" (12c.), from M.L. succarum, from Arabic sukkar, from Pers. shakar, from Skt. sharkara "ground or candied sugar," originally "grit, gravel" (cognate with Gk. kroke "pebble" 
One could based on your logic state it came from French, because it came from there in english.
My version is: "it originates from Sanskrit and was mainly transmitted through the arab langauge" or whatever better english you might want to use.
Same about zero and cipher and even giraf (african origin).


I think, as a scientist, one should always use the most correct word/expression and not using impostures. That opens the door to so many critics and doesn't serve any case at all. On the contrary.


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## Magmod

savasorda said:


> So it doesn't make sense to state that Al Kwararismi is Arab .


 He was assimilated like the billions of other examples I've given.

 Most European languge words, Greek, Latin etc, originated from Sanskrit. Relatively speaking they are called Indo-European. 

 Everything is relative. In the end all languages go back to that African man who developed to be human from a chimpanzee and was the *origin* of all human languages.

Regards


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## Qcumber

It would be useful to distinguish terms that apply to universal things, like "sugar", from those that are only used to refer to Islam, e.g. "mihrab", or the Arabo-Islamic civilization, e.g. Sultan.

The big bulk is Spanish and from Spanish has spread to other Western countries.

Another group of terms reached us through Turkish, e.g. "minaret".


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## Qcumber

drei_lengua said:


> ojalá comes from O Allah.


1) What does the "O" mean in Arabic?
2) Where does the <j> come from?


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## Qcumber

Josh Adkins said:


> Oh, no need to apologize. Actually I was both right and wrong, or at least highly inaccurate in my first post on lingua franca. In my fervor to share the derivation of the term I erroneously wrote that it was of Arabic roots instead of saying it was an Italian phrase derived from the Arab use of the word Frank (which of course is from Latin). This is probably what confused you.


This is odd because the Arabic term was not farank or faranka but faran*g* because the letter <jiim> was read "giim".


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## Qcumber

LanceKitty said:


> A very interesting thread
> 
> The deeper I go, the more I discover that a dialect here in the Philippines called *Tausug* has words adapted from the Arabic language. Tausug is not only a dialect, but also a tribe (95% Muslim). I suppose that explains why there is such an adaptation since Muslims have to know Arabic. Tausug has sukkar and qahwa. We also follow the week days in Arabic.


I'm afraid Tausug is not a dialect, but a language. 
Indeed Tausug has borrowed many Arabic terms through Malay since the Tausugs are Muslims.


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## faranji

Qcumber said:


> 1) What does the "O" mean in Arabic?
> 2) Where does the <j> come from?


 
I always heard 'Ojalá' comes from 'Lau sha Allah.'


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## faranji

A Spanish word that comes *literally* from 'Arabic' is 'algarabía'... from 'al 'arabiya.'

It means gabble, din, clamour, racket.


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## Qcumber

faranji said:


> I always heard 'Ojalá' comes from 'Lau sha Allah.'


Thanks a lot, Faranji. This etymology is convincing while "O Allah" mentioned above is not.


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## faranji

Another one, present in all Romance languages as well as in English, is 'civet.' (_civette, civeto, civeta_, etc). From the word 'zabad,' meaning 'butter,' which alludes to the unctuous, smelly substante civets secrete from a gland near their anus.


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## faranji

Qcumber said:


> Thanks a lot, Faranji. This etymology is convincing while "O Allah" mentioned above is not.


 
You're very welcome. I've never been convinced either by those who claim it comes from 'In sha Allah,' since the usage of both expressions is quite different. 'Ojalá' doesn't mean 'God willing.'


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## Nikola

faranji said:


> You're very welcome. I've never been convinced either by those who claim it comes from 'In sha Allah,' since the usage of both expressions is quite different. 'Ojalá' doesn't mean 'God willing.'


according to rae: 
*ojalá**.*

(Del ár. hisp. _law šá lláh_, si Dios quiere).


*1. *interj. Denota vivo deseo de que suceda algo.

in sha allah has a similar meaning


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## faranji

Thanks a lot for your post, Nikole.

'*Ojalá*' in Spanish means _'quiéralo Dios'_, _'que Dios lo quiera'_. 

It's a different meaning from the Spanish expressions 

_'si Dios quiere'_ o _'Dios mediante'_ 
(_'God willing'_), 

which I believed were the exact equivalent to 

_'_*In sha Allah*_.'_

Thus, I always thought that when you say i.e.

_'Ila al liqa, in sha Allah'_ 

you mean 

_'Hasta la vista, si Dios quiere'_ 
(_'I'll see you later, God willing'_) 

rather than 

_'Ojalá volvamos a vernos'_ 
(_'I wish I'll see you again'_).

While the first is a sort of devout (at times resigned!) acknowledgment of God's ultimate say in all human affairs, the second is the expression of a strong desire for something to happen.

But that's only my view. Please correct me if I had it all wrong!


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## Nikola

Faranji, If you look at what RAE says and what you said they are similar,The original saying shows a religious idea, but like everything else, if there is a stronger religious feeling it depends on the person, that is why I said similar and not identical. Maybe someone can tell us if  _law šá lláh and in sha llah are very different._


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## Goerzer

faranji said:


> Another one, present in all Romance languages as well as in English, is 'civet.' (_civette, civeto, civeta_, etc). From the word 'zabad,' meaning 'butter,' which alludes to the unctuous, smelly substante civets secrete from a gland near their anus.


 
The Italian "civetta" as the French "chouette" derive from the ancient high German word "Chouch".


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## Goerzer

Heba said:


> By the way, the word bank is not originally Arabic, it became Arabic after being much used among people.


 

You are right, his origin is Germanic.


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## faranji

Goerzer said:


> The Italian "civetta" as the French "chouette" derive from the ancient high German word "Chouch".


 
That's very interesting, thank you.

The only problem is it hasn't got anything to do with the topic of my post. You're talking about owls, I was talking about civets (fam. _viverridae_) 

(French _civette_, Italian _zibetto, _German _Zibetkatze_).

Cheers.


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## Beate

Nikola said:


> Faranji, If you look at what RAE says and what you said they are similar,The original saying shows a religious idea, but like everything else, if there is a stronger religious feeling it depends on the person, that is why I said similar and not identical. Maybe someone can tell us if _law šá lláh and in sha llah are very different._


Hello,

Well, I learned at the university that the spanisch ojalá comes from portuguese ojalà (where the j is pronounced like the french j) which comes from inshallah.

I don't know the exact difference in meaning between inshallah and lau scha'a Allah but I would say that inshallah is very very frequent. Lau sha'a Allah is rather used for very specific contextes. 

Bye Beate


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## Nikola

Beaete,*La Real Academia de la Lengua* *Española:*
*ojalá.*(Del ár. hisp. _law šá lláh_, si Dios quiere).
*1. *interj. Denota vivo deseo de que suceda algo.
The source of Spanish etymology.
*Português   oxalá x=sh* is the equivalent.
I agree in sa allah is more common currently and since law can mean if, I do not know if there is a difference or if law is an older form.


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## Ander

Beate said:


> I dont't know the exact difference in meaning between inshallah and lau scha'a Allah but i would say that inshallah is very very frequent. Lau sha'a Allah is rather used for very specific contextes.
> 
> bye Beate



I think law is used for something which has less chances to happen than when one uses in.


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## Beate

Hello,

lau is used for the conditional clauses of the past whereas in is used for the conditional clauses of the present and the future, at least as far as I know.

If you say "lau shaa Allah" it means "If God had wanted,....." so this refers to something that might have happened but that definitifely did not happen.

If you say "In shaa Alla" this means "if God wills", so this refers for something that still is possible. 

In this context it is more logical that people say "inshallah" because they want to express that they intend or plan something but that this can only happen if God allows it.

bye Beate


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## Ander

Beate said:


> If you say "In shaa Alla" this means "if God wills", so this refers for something that still is possible.
> 
> In this context it is more logical that people say "inshallah" because they want to express that they intend or plan something but that this can only happen if God allows it.
> 
> bye Beate



"inshaallah" actually means "if God has willed" in the perfective. It is a case where the past is translated by a present in english and french (ich weiss nicht wie man es richtig uebersetzt auf Deutsch) which belongs to the imperfective.


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## linguist786

Ander said:


> (ich weiss nicht wie man es richtig auf Deutsch uebersetzt)


Wahrscheinlich "Wenn Gott will"


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## Beate

Hello,

according to Brockelmann, the author of the grammarbook "Arabische Grammatik" the perfect is used in the sense of the present tense in conditional clauses.

In order to make the past you have to use the auxiliary kana. 
Example: "in kana qamisuhu qudda min qubulin fasadaqat"

Qur'an: if his shirt was  torn at the front , so she told the truth"

bye Beate


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## Ander

linguist786 said:


> Wahrscheinlich "Wenn Gott will"



In der Wikipedia steht "So Gott will"!


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## Ander

Beate said:


> Hello,
> 
> according to Brockelmann, the author of the grammarbook "Arabische Grammatik" the perfect is used in the sense of the present tense in conditional clauses.



Right. That's what I was refering to.


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## linguist786

Ander said:


> In der Wikipedia steht "So Gott will"!


Ja, das ist vielleicht besser. Auf Google gibt es 86,400 Ergebnisse für _So Gott will_ aber 23,500 für _Wenn Gott will_. Deutlich ist _So Gott will_ die normale Übersetzung ins Deutsche, aber _Wenn Gott will_ geht auch.


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## almufadado

Portuguese cities named after or adapted from arabic origin

Albufeira
Alcácer do Sal
Alcobaça
Almada
Almeirim
Alverca do Ribatejo

Admnistrative Regional districs

Abrantes (Santarém)
Alandroal (Évora)
Albergaria-a-Velha (Aveiro)
Albufeira (Faro)
Alcácer do Sal (Setúbal)
Alcanena (Santarém)
Alcobaça (Leiria)
Alcochete (Setúbal)
Alcoutim (Faro)
Alenquer (Lisboa)
Alfandega da Fé (Bragança)
Aljezur (Faro)
Aljustrel (Beja)
Almada (Setúbal)
Almeida (Guarda)
Almeirim (Santarém)
Almodôvar (Beja)
Alpiarça (Santarém)
Alter do Chão (Portalegre)
Alvaiázere (Leiria)
Alvito (Beja)
Arraiolos (Évora)
Arronches (Portalegre)
Azambuja (Lisboa)

Some medium size cities and villages 

Alfarrobeira
Almargem
Almarjão
Almeijoafra
Almeijoafra de Baixo
Almeijoafra de Cima
*Almodôvar* (Vila)
Almodôvar Velho
Almoinha
Abegão
Abelheira
Abelheirinna
Abetónicas
Abobora
Aboboreira
Abrigada
Abrunheira
Abrunheirinha
Adail
Adail de Baixo
Afeiteira
Afeteira
Afeteirinha
Afoiteza
Alagoa
Alagoachos
Alcaria
Alcaria de Estombar
Alcaria do Alto
Alcaria do Clemente
Alcaria dos Cabecinhos
Alcarial
Alcaria Nova
Alcaria Pequena
Alcarias
Alcaria Velha
Alcaria Ventosa
Alcariota
Alfundega de Cima
Algareme
Algares
Algoceira
Alicate
Almares
Almargens
Almarginho
Almarginhos
Almargue
Almarjões
Almeidas
Almogarve
Almograve
Alpendurada
Alpenduradinha

and so on


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## almufadado

Word directly from arabic (food  and products)

álcool
açucar
algodão
alfarroba
azeite 
azeitona
oliveira
amêndoa (español - almendra)
laranja
limão
alcaçus (actual rebuçado)
açafrão
alcatra (meat of a region of a cow)
xarope (syrup)
arroz


Palavras instrumentos, artes

alguidar
alfoge
almude
albarda
alcofa
alcatraz
alcatrão
alcatifa
alçapão
alcaparra
albormoz
alfaiate (tailor)
alfaia
alpendre
almofada
almude
almofariz
alpaca
albacora
Nora
tambor
cadimo (árabe _qadimu_, antigo, velho)
cáfila (conjunto de camelos)
almargem
badana
álgebra
algoritmo
azimute
divã (sofá = sofa + originally a collection of Arabic poetry)
sofá
gazua / gaziva (árabe _gazuâ_, incursão, invasão) -> spanish a instrument to break in by forcefully open a door
azáfama 
*enxaqueca* (é) (árabe _ax-xaqiqâ_) - migraine 
*zénite *(árabe _samt_, astronomy way to the top, sky above ones heads
andaime (árabe _ad-da'aim_, plural _ad-da'ama_, pillar, column )
mitra
algoz 
haxixe (árabe _haxix_, chicha)
alicerce (árabe _al-isas_)
*xeque *(árabe _xekh_, velho) 
xeque (árabe _xah_, ataque ao rei, no xadrez, do persa _xah_, rei)(used in chess - checkmate) 
*alfândega* árabe _al-funduq_, estalagem, hospedaria - hotel, lodge) today means place/org where imposted products pay duties
*leilão *(árabe vulgar _al-a'lam_) auction
*tarifa *(italiano _tariffa_, do árabe _ta'rif_) sort of tax, price, a city in Spain



Other
*razia *(français  _razzia_)  - a Arab military strategy that consited in a deep incursion in enemy territory to plunder and to instill fear


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