# Accusative case marker in plural



## greatbear

Selam everyone! I am a beginner in Turkish and I came across something interesting today: "I see the house" is "Ben ev*i* görüyorum", whereas "I see a house" is "Ben bir ev görüyorum", that is no accusative case marker with the indefinite sentence. The rule mentioned was that "bir + noun" is almost never in accusative.

I was wondering if there is a way to differentiate between plural definite and plural indefinite: that is, "I see the houses" (it's already known which particular houses are being talked about) and "I see houses" (I see some houses, that's all). Would both of them be "Ben evler*i* görüyorum"? Or would the suffix "-i" be added only for "I see the houses" and not for "I see houses"? Or is there any other way to differentiate between the two sentences.

Çok teşekkürler!


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## spiraxo

Hi greatbear,


> I was wondering if there is a way to differentiate between plural definite and plural indefinite: that is, "I see the houses" (it's already known which particular houses are being talked about) and "I see houses" (I see some houses, that's all). Would both of them be "Ben evleri görüyorum"?  *No.*





> Or would the suffix "-i" be added only for "I see the houses" and not for "I see houses"? *Yes.*





I see the houses.
I see some houses.
I saw houses in my dream.
_Evleri görüyorum.
Birkaç ev görüyorum.
Rüyamda evler gördüm._
Definite
Indefinite
Indefinite




> Or is there any other way to differentiate between the two sentences.


No. To my knowledge there isn’t any other way.


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## greatbear

Thanks a lot, spiraxo, for your clarification and wonderful examples!


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## greatbear

Another related doubt: can "_Ev görüyorum_" mean both "I see house" and "I see houses"?


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## Guner

greatbear said:


> Another related doubt: can "_Ev görüyorum_" mean both "I see house" and "I see houses"?



No. "I see houses" --> "Evler görüyorum"

"_Ev görüyorum_" does not mean much on its own. Maybe it can be used as an answer to "Sihirli kavanozunda ne görüyorsun?"
(In fact in English "I see house" does not make much sense too.)

Side info:
"Ev bakıyorum." means that you are looking for *a* house (to rent/buy). 
And yet "Eve bakıyorum." means "You are looking at a house". So beware of some special usages too.


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## greatbear

Thanks a lot, Guner. You are right; "I see house" doesn't make much sense in English, too. I would rephrase my question. Can spiraxo's sentence "_Birkaç ev görüyorum_" be also written as "_ev görüyorum_" and still mean "I see houses", because the Wikipedia page on Turkish grammar says the following:

-- The plural marker _-ler_² is generally not used when a class or category is meant: _ağaç gördük_ can equally well mean "we saw trees [as we walked through the forest]"—as opposed to _ağaçları gördük_ "we saw the trees [in question]". --

Which is why my confusion! In addition, the same page says the following:
_(bir) ağaç gördük_ "we saw *a* tree"

So, is "bir" indeed optional in "Bir ev görüyorum"?

Thanks a lot in advance, once again!


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## Guner

greatbear said:


> Can spiraxo's sentence "_Birkaç ev görüyorum_" be also written as "_ev görüyorum_" and still mean "I see houses", because the Wikipedia page on Turkish grammar says the following:
> 
> -- The plural marker _-ler_² is generally not used when a class or category is meant: _ağaç gördük_ can equally well mean "we saw trees [as we walked through the forest]"—as opposed to _ağaçları gördük_ "we saw the trees [in question]". --


Yes, it can be also written as "_ev görüyorum_". But bear in mind that context is quite important here. Most probably you won't hear it from someone or read somewhere that phrase on its own. Hence the explanation regarding the class or category makes sense.
So as long as you do not add "i" to the end it can mean any single or plural houses. As soon as you say "evi görüyorum" or "evleri görüyorum" it becomes one or many but specific houses you are talking about. The context is really important here for clarification.

i.e:
"Camdan bakınca ne görüyorsun?" ---> "Ev görüyorum." ------Here this can mean both one or many houses. So I'd rather use "bir" if I wanted to clarify that I see only one house. And if I answered as "Evi görüyorum." that would most certainly mean that I am talking about a specific house. *Informally* "Evleri görüyorum." unfortunately may mean both that you are seeing a bunch of houses or some specific houses. Adding "i" will make them specific for sure in formal language. 




greatbear said:


> Which is why my confusion! In addition, the same page says the following:
> _(bir) ağaç gördük_ "we saw *a* tree"
> 
> So, is "bir" indeed optional in "Bir ev görüyorum"?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance, once again!


Well, yes it is optional but for clarification it is wise to use it. So to prevent confusion it is wise to use "bir", "birkaç", "i" etc. with a bit of context as well if possible.


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## greatbear

Thanks a lot for your wonderful clarifications, Guner!


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## ecdadihifzeylerdi

There is even a difference between 

1. Bir ağaç görüyorum. - with stress on 'Bir' 
2. Bir ağaç görüyorum. - No stress on 'Bir' and usually pronounced as 'Bi' 

Even though these sentences are identical in written, due to the difference in stress and pronunciation:

1. means: I see one tree.
2. means: I see a tree.


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## greatbear

Thanks a lot, ecdadihifzeylerdi! Understanding of such nuances helps a lot in learning a language.


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