# Plural of feminine nouns



## ka_

How do I know whether I should use *e* or *i* when forming the plural of feminine nouns that end in -ă?
Is there any pattern or rule I should follow?

Cravată - cravate
Fustă - fuste
Cămașă - cămași


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## irinet

Hi, 
There are about nine rules to apply for pluralizing feminine nouns, and a few exceptions to those rules. What you have written,  shows one of these rules, which is 1) _if a feminine noun ends in the vowel 'ă', it will have the plural in 'e_'. 
As to '*cămașă*' -  'căm*ă*ș*i*' , this is one of the few *exception*s I have mentioned. One more here, 'buni*că*' - 'buni*ci*' (person), 'bancă - bănci'(='bank', building). So, you have to pay attention to the consonant, 'ș' that falls under the exception rule here. 2) _With words ending '-că', it's a new rule_. 

3) There's one more thing to add. 
If you have 'lopat*ă*' (=shovel)  - 'lope*ți*'  falls under the rule that says _when the noun expresses a thing, and not a person_, the rule above is changed or does not apply. However, the example I gave you seems to be another exception to the new rule. 

As a personal view, I dare say that nouns ending in '-că' will have the plural  '-i' as a rule (2), as I cannot see the exception.  

_That's more about the way sounds combine_. 

So, I am asking honestly, was I of any help to you?!


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## jimmyy

The rules are quite complex for forming the plural, but there are rules, and as always when there are rules there are exceptions.

Basically it's all a matter of the feminine noun ending (sometimes you look only at the last letter, sometimes at the 2-3 last ones...)

If you need to know all the rules before moving on (as I do), then the rules are here.

Otherwise, the best would be to learn them by heart, that's the easiest, and the more you practice, the more you will remember them. 

Just as a reference the rules are listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_nouns#Plural_formation
http://www.learnro.com/plural-feminine

All the best
Jimmyy


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## jimmyy

Sorry ka_, I did not see that you had a specific question.

For the words ending in "tă" you have a good probability that they will form the plural in "te". However there are quite a few exceptions.

E.g. following the rule "copită - copite , artă - arte, arbaletă - arbalete", exceptions "copertă - coperţi"

For the ending "şă" it's almost the same story, most likely to end-up with an "şe" ending, with some exceptions.
Following the rule: "brânduşă - brânduşe, cireaşă - cireşe", exceptions : "gogoaşă - gogoşi"

I know that the above may not help you that much, all what I'm trying to say is that there are some patterns, but sometimes the exceptions are let's say 25% of the rule... so I'm afraid that you have to learn them by heart.

I hope this helps.


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## jimmyy

irinet said:


> Hi,
> There are about nine rules to apply for pluralizing feminine nouns, and a few exceptions to those rules. What you have written,  shows one of these rules, which is 1) _if a feminine noun ends in the vowel 'ă', it will have the plural in 'e_'.
> As to '*cămașă*' -  'căm*ă*ș*i*' , this is one of the few *exception*s I have mentioned. One more here, 'buni*că*' - 'buni*ci*' (person), 'bancă - bănci'(='bank', building). So, you have to pay attention to the consonant, 'ș' that falls under the exception rule here. 2) _With words ending '-că', it's a new rule_.
> 
> 3) There's one more thing to add.
> If you have 'lopat*ă*' (=shovel)  - 'lope*ți*'  falls under the rule that says _when the noun expresses a thing, and not a person_, the rule above is changed or does not apply. However, the example I gave you seems to be another exception to the new rule.
> 
> As a personal view, I dare say that nouns ending in '-că' will have the plural  '-i' as a rule (2), as I cannot see the exception.
> 
> _That's more about the way sounds combine_.
> 
> So, I am asking honestly, was I of any help to you?!




Not really, the "că" ending can form the plural in "e" e.g. "broască - broaşte, duşcă - duşte".
And then you have the ending "ică" that is a bit more special as explained in the second link, two posts up.


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## irinet

Good point. Now I can see a possible exception, _the diphtong before the consonant preceding '-că'_. 
However, ''dușcă', which is to be found idiomatic like, 'ia o dușcă' ('now, you take some', like an invitation for passing by a bottle of alcohol and to finish it up , I presume) does not need be pluralised. If it is, I strongly feel that it ends in 'i' - 'dușci' (too awkward to my linguistic appetite). But I do not hesitate in saying that the use is in singular form only as it does not have a reasonable basis: the content and the way to split & share are unique while the users,  who have to be 'buddies',   make up for two at least. 

Anyway, _who's talking like this, jimmyy?!?! _


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## jimmyy

irinet said:


> Good point. Now I can see a possible exception, _the diphtong before the consonant preceding '-că'_.
> However, ''dușcă', which is to be found idiomatic like, 'ia o dușcă' ('now, you take some', like an invitation for passing by a bottle of alcohol and to finish it up , I presume) does not need be pluralised. If it is, I strongly feel that it ends in 'i' - 'dușci' (too awkward to my linguistic appetite). But I do not hesitate in saying that the use is in singular form only as it does not have a reasonable basis: the content and the way to split & share are unique while the users,  who have to be 'buddies',   make up for two at least.
> 
> Anyway, _who's talking like this, jimmyy?!?! _



alică - alice
băbuşcă - băbuşte
româncă - românce
ciuşcă - ciuşte
dădacă - dădace
moluscă - moluşte

and then there are the very many
 -ică (diminutive)  => -cele


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## irinet

Nice examples to show one more time that 

_we cannot simply advise someone to learn anything_ '_by heart'  before getting  some understanding of why this is happening! 
_
If there is not a serious study to find in which these sets  must have logical reasons for their changes, I am not the one to do it. But I think they are. 

Anyway, I can see a pattern in a) '*v-că*' (vowel before '-că') changes in '*- ce*' in the plural, while b) '*c-că*' (consonant before '-că') - '*c-ci*' (ba*ncă* - băn*ci*).

Though,  there I found two examples for which the explanation above is not valid: 'piersică - piersici, pisică - pisici'. 

_And I cannot but conclude that if we have in a word more segmental units of which consonants + closed vowels in the singular, then we'll have the plural in 'i', which is a closed vowel, either. And it would not be the '-că' matter anymore.
_But again,  I  really don't say that it is true. 

As to 'broască'  and 'moluscă', there is an extra phonological aspect to motivate with the change. There are more changes in the word from singular into plural here than '-c-ă' to '-c-i' / '-c-e'.


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## jimmyy

irinet said:


> Nice examples to show one more time that
> 
> _we cannot simply advise someone to learn anything_ '_by heart'  before getting  some understanding of why this is happening!
> _
> If there is not a serious study to find in which these sets  must have logical reasons for their changes, I am not the one to do it. But I think they are.
> 
> Anyway, I can see a pattern in a) '*v-că*' (vowel before '-că') changes in '*- ce*' in the plural, while b) '*c-că*' (consonant before '-că') - '*c-ci*' (ba*ncă* - băn*ci*).
> 
> Though,  there I found two examples for which the explanation above is not valid: 'piersică - piersici, pisică - pisici'.
> 
> _And I cannot but conclude that if we have in a word more segmental units of which consonants + closed vowels in the singular, then we'll have the plural in 'i', which is a closed vowel, either. And it would not be the '-că' matter anymore.
> _But again,  I  really don't say that it is true.
> 
> As to 'broască'  and 'moluscă', there is an extra phonological aspect to motivate with the change. There are more changes in the word from singular into plural here than '-c-ă' to '-c-i' / '-c-e'.


Hi, I fell into this trap of trying to guess the rules, but for a foreigner it's much easier to learn them by heart than to learn 20 pseudo-rules with 20 exceptions each...
The rules are present in the two links I posted above.
I'll stop here, because this becomes too much off topic, the question was which is the rule for the plural of the three for initial examples, and I'm afraid that the answer is still the same one that there is no rule, you need to learn them by heart.


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## irinet

Of course, the whole idea is about getting to understand a message which can be done easily no matter the rules,  and not about getting the foreigner to become a Romanian.


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