# "Ave" - ¿etimología?



## No_C_Nada

_¿Cuál es la etimología de "Ave" en latín, cuando se usa junto a "María"?_


*[Other topic snipped. Please start a new thread.*
*Frank, moderator EHL]*


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## origumi

My Latin professor always said that "ave" is the Roman pronounciation of Punic "khaveh" or "haveh", meaning "live" or "be" (imperative singular masculine), a greeting when two persons are meeting. Both roots, kh-v-h / kh-y-h and h-v-h / h-y-h, exist with the same meaning in Hebrew and apparently other Canaanite languages and have cognates in other Semitic languages.

The word is said to have been borrowed by Romans via Carthagenian prisoners in one of the Punic Wars.


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## amikama

origumi said:


> My Latin professor always said that "ave" is the Roman pronounciation of Punic "khaveh" or "haveh", meaning "live" or "be" (imperative singular masculine), a greeting when two persons are meeting. Both roots, kh-v-h / kh-y-h and h-v-h / h-y-h, exist with the same meaning in Hebrew and apparently other Canaanite languages and have cognates in other Semitic languages.
> 
> The word is said to have been borrowed by Romans via Carthagenian prisoners in one of the Punic Wars.


Interesting. Is this etymology established?

According to Etymonline, the etymology is different:


> "hail," also "farewell," c.1230 (in ref. to the _Ave Maria_), from L. _ave_, 2nd person sing. imper. of _avere _"to be or fare well."


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## Hulalessar

> "hail," also "farewell," c.1230 (in ref. to the _Ave Maria_), from L. _ave_, 2nd person sing. imper. of _avere _"to be or fare well."


 
Since the plural form "avete" exists this etymology seems more plausible.


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## origumi

amikama said:


> Interesting. Is this etymology established?


http://www.yourdictionary.com/ave: Etymology: L, prob. of Punic orig., lit., live!
http://books.google.com/books?id=1h...esnum=3#v=onepage&q="ave maria" punic&f=false: It was from the Phoenicians that the Romans took the greeting "ave".


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## franz rod

> The word is said to have been borrowed by Romans via Carthagenian prisoners in one of the Punic Wars.




It's quite odd that an everyday and ordinary word have this origin.
Also here http://www.etimo.it/?term=ave is said that the word "ave" came from the imperative form of verb "avere".


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## Frank06

Hi,

Can't this problem be solved in an easy way? The only thing we have to do to substantiate the Latin origin is to come up with an attestation of 'ave' which preceedes the Punic Wars. However, if we cannot find such an early attestation, this doesn't automatically mean that the Punic etymology would be correct...

Groetjes,

Frank


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## mugibil

Excuse me, but what a strange discussion. The claim that "ave" is, within the Latin grammatical system, an imperative of a verb whose infinitive is "avere", in no way excludes the claim that this verb, whatever grammatical form it was borrowed in, is from a Punic ḥ-w-h. And there is absolutely nothing strange about "ordinary and everyday words" being loans.


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## bibax

Another possibility is that the Punic word leant towards an existing Latin verb with the same or similar meaning.

A recent example of such phenomenon in the Czech language:

The term _harassment_ is unofficially translated _harašení_ which is the verbal noun derived from the verb _harašit_ (_haraš!_ is imperative). However _harašit_ means _to rustle_, and not _to harass_.

I don't know the correct English term for this phenomenon which is called _přichýlení_ (= inclination) in Czech.


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## jazyk

I'm not sure, but I can think of contamination, calque, semantic change, and language interference, but none seems to apply.


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## Ben Jamin

jazyk said:


> I'm not sure, but I can think of contamination, calque, semantic change, and language interference, but none seems to apply.


 Contamination should fit well here.


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## francisgranada

The Devoto's etymological dictionary of the Italian, also reports Punic origin.


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## artion

If you are not satisfied with the Punic theory, here is an alternative:
There were epiphonems (cries) of joy for Dionysus and for wine-drinking "ευοί, ευάν, ευά, ευαί, σαβαί" and other similar (Lysistrata, 1294 and http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper /text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*e%3Aentry+group%3D270%3Aentry%3Deu%29ai%2F)
 From these we have the v. ευάζω (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...betic+letter=*e:entry+group=270:entry=eu)a/zw
The pronounce is evi, eva, savE, evE etc. but obviously there was not strict rule on how to cheer during drinking. It is believed that from these epiphonems the latin "eviva" was produced assisted by its relevance to the v. "vivo". 
We could assume that the ave is a variant of those epiphonems.


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## Ben Jamin

artion said:


> If you are not satisfied with the Punic theory, here is an alternative:
> There were epiphonems (cries) of joy for Dionysus and for wine-drinking "ευοί, ευάν, ευά, ευαί, σαβαί" and other similar (Lysistrata, 1294 and http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper /text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*e%3Aentry+group%3D270%3Aentry%3Deu%29ai%2F)
> From these we have the v. ευάζω (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...betic+letter=*e:entry+group=270:entry=eu)a/zw
> The pronounce is evi, eva, savE, evE etc. but obviously there was not strict rule on how to cheer during drinking. It is believed that from these epiphonems the latin "eviva" was produced assisted by its relevance to the v. "vivo".
> We could assume that the ave is a variant of those epiphonems.


Evviva (double v) is not Latin, it's Italian. In Latin it's vivat, vivant (let him/them) live.


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## mataripis

origumi said:


> My Latin professor always said that "ave" is the Roman pronounciation of Punic "khaveh" or "haveh", meaning "live" or "be" (imperative singular masculine), a greeting when two persons are meeting. Both roots, kh-v-h / kh-y-h and h-v-h / h-y-h, exist with the same meaning in Hebrew and apparently other Canaanite languages and have cognates in other Semitic languages.
> 
> The word is said to have been borrowed by Romans via Carthagenian prisoners in one of the Punic Wars.


Then it is closely related to "Vivo" and "Viva" (long live!).A word of Praise which is originally used by The men of God from Israel descendants to honor the Most High.I am right that the term "ABBA" (FATHER of All) of Ancient Aramaic is the possible etymology of the latinized word "Ave"!  No wonder, The Tagalog together with its sister languages has the word "AMA"(Father) which is directly evolved from "ABBA" of Ancient Aramaic."Ahora,Discubremos aquel la etimologia del verbo "Ave" es de Lengua llamado "Aramaico".


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## No_C_Nada

_
It makes sense.  Since Mary spoke Aramaic era lógico que la saludaran en arameo.  Siempre me habían dicho que "ave" era palabra latina que significaba "saludos", que era sinónimo de "hail!"


Muchísimas gracias a todos ustedes que aportaron su sabiduría.



_


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