# how do you name your children ?



## alexa99

Hi,
As some of you may already know, french law allows parents to give their children any first name . There's an exception to that rule though : If the civil servant in charge of civil registration considers this first name as potentially adverse to the child ( or to any third person ), he can ask a judge to decide wether the name is acceptable or not.
For instance a baby was recently named "Thérébentine" ( turpentine, in english ), and it seems, as far as I know, that the parents  were not eventually allowed to do so. Same decision against Mr and Mrs Renault who had opted for "Mégane" as their daughter first name ( Mégane Renault is the official trademark of a car)
How does it work in other coutries ?


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## kiyama

At least in Catalonia, you can't give your children any pejorative name, and also you can't give a kid a name which might confuse other people about it's gender. For example, Pau (Paul in french) is just a male name, but before it was allowed to boys and girls to bear it. Now, if parents want to call a girl like this, they must give her a "double name", such as Maria Pau, that solves the ambiguity. Even if in some places almost every child bears two names, in Catalonia it's not that usual.
Kiyama


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## sokol

In Austria not any name is permitted; but I am not acquainted with the exact regulations. Probably not too different from the ones applied in France as described by alexa99, but I think in Austria this is even a little bit stricter.

Traditionally the first name was a religious name (once you could say by the first name if someone was Catholic or Protestantic), but these times are long since gone.
(Second names were very uncommon some decades ago but are more usual nowadays. In former times only people of higher social classes - especially the 'old' nobility - gave their children more than one name, or in lower classes double or even triple names rarely occured if the parents couldn't agree on a single name, or if they thought they should honour the name of one of their parents or another relative but didn't like too much the idea of calling their child after them, and therefore gave them another first name and as second name the name of the relative that should be honoured.)


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## ILT

In México people used to be able to name their kids any name with any spelling they requested, but recently some counties have passed laws with some requirements. Now boys cannot be given female names and viceversa, if the name is foreign the parent's must prove they know the meaning and also accompany it by a Mexican or Spanish name, and the name must not include numbers or derogatory references. We are facing a trend to make up new names or modify the spelling of regular names.


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## waspsmakejam

In the UK there are no rules against giving baby's whimsical, silly, or gender-bending names - all that is required is a surname and at least one forename.  

It is also extremely easy to change your name at any time, to anything you fancy.


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## alexacohen

I was going to say in Spain, but apparently the different communities have different rules.

In Andalucía you could choose any name you fancied for your child (maybe this has changed now), and some of them were as outlandish as Gracekelly, Kevincostner de Jesús, even Kelvinator or Jesucristo (I'm not joking, the names are real).

If your child is born in Galicia you will be kindly asked to choose a Galician name, but foreign names will be accepted. Names that may be considered derogatory are not allowed.


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## Mahaodeh

I've never even wondered whether there are any laws, I always thought that parents simply choose a good name for the childrend becasue they want what's best for them.  I know of only one Arab country (Saudi Arabia) that has a certain rule: specifically, if the name undermines God' worship it's not allowed.  As an example, one can not call his child Abdul-Nabbi, which means "the worshipper of the Prophet".  But I don't know if anything else is not allowed.  I also know that other Arab countries allow such names even if they are "un-Islamic".


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## Brioche

In Australia you can pretty much call yourself or your child whatever name you like.

The Law in my state, South Australia, does prohibit some names:
_ "prohibited name" means a name that— 

              (a)         is obscene or offensive; or 

              (b)         could not practicably be established by repute or usage— 

                    (i)         because it is too long; or 

                    (ii)         because it consists of or includes symbols without phonetic significance; or 

                    (iii)         for some other reason; or 

              (c)         is contrary to the public interest for some other reason;_


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## TWG

You're allowed to name your kid whatever you'd like in the USA. The custom is to continue family names, or biblical names if you are Christian. I'd never even heard of names not being allowed for the "wrong" gender, although my aunt and uncle adopted a girl named "Casper" and chose to legally change her name to "Cassie," her nickname. They went to the hearing and the judge asked "why do you want to change this boy's name?" My uncle answered "This boy is not a boy, but a girl" and that was the end of the hearing.


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## sokol

I've now dug up *some reference to regulations for Austria* - _DISCLAIMER: I do not claim that everything said on that website were true!_ - which seem to be *guidelines *to be applied by the registry office (so at first the registrar will decide if a name (names) is (are) an 'appropriate' first name(s); if he or she thinks this is not so you might try and fight for the name you chose, or choose another one):

- *first*, some things are *definitely not allowed,* such as: surnames as first names, nobility titles as first names, geographical names, derogatroy names (everything the registrar thinks might be problematic for the child later on)
- and *second*, in principle *first names used anywhere on the world might be chosen* if they do not conflict with the above mentioned rules, and if the name is clearly either male or female (if a name is not then one would have to choose a second name); sometimes foreign first names might be accepted even though they are too surnames or geographical names

Therefore, it might be a problem to name someone 'Mississippi' here in Austria even though, allegedly, this name actually is not rare in the US; but if you have a talent for persuasion you just might persuade the registrar to accept such a name.

On the other hand, there was an old tradition of naming children after the Holy Mary in a 'Holy-Mary-Year' (don't ask me when and why this occurs, I just know that every now and then there's a 'Mary-Year') even if they are boys.
This tradition nowadays is _almost _forgotten, but there still are some men around who bear such names, like for example Klaus Maria Brandauer. (With 'Klaus' of course being male and 'Maria' female.) Such names _are _allowed here.
As for Biblical names, there's the regulation that Biblical names with negative connotations *might not *be chosen (such as Judas or Caine); however, my guess would be that even though registrars probably would refute 'Kain', they most likely would accept the English form 'Caine'.

There's no regulation as to the number of first names allowed - you might give your child as many as you want.
But you should not choose an affectionate form of a name - like, an English example, 'Mike' for 'Michael': the name you will have to choose will be 'Michael'. Again, however, this depends on the knowledge of the registrar of short forms: I suppose that no registrar in Austria would have any complaints against 'Anita' even though this is (Spanish) affectionate for 'Ana' (and the German - full - equivalent would be 'Anna'.)

All in all, rather strict guidelines compared to some other nations, especially the US, Mexico and UK.


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## EmilyD

To my knowledge, there are no prohibitions in the U.S. against any first names.

_Nomi _


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## alexa99

sokol said:


> On the other hand, there was an old tradition of naming children after the Holy Mary in a 'Holy-Mary-Year' (don't ask me when and why this occurs, I just know that every now and then there's a 'Mary-Year') even if they are boys.
> This tradition nowadays is _almost _forgotten, but there still are some men around who bear such names, like for example Klaus Maria Brandauer. (With 'Klaus' of course being male and 'Maria' female.) Such names _are _allowed here.


 
Male First names compounded with "marie" still exist in France ( Jean-Marie, André-Marie ect...) but they stopped being up-to-date with generations born after 1970. 
I think this kind of names can be found in many other countries.


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## tvdxer

I'll concur with others here and say that there are few laws regarding child-naming here, though I have a difficult time imagining parents naming their kids "f--k" or 's--t" and getting away with it.  

However, I have heard some odd names.  My aunt named her son Javv, which she got off a license plate (as in JAV-###).   One person named their kid "Montecarlo", after the car.  I've also heard Shiboozy, Henessey, Apple, and others.


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## alexa99

tvdxer said:


> I'll concur with others here and say that there are few laws regarding child-naming here, though I have a difficult time imagining parents naming their kids "f--k" or 's--t" and getting away with it.
> 
> However, I have heard some odd names. My aunt named her son Javv, which she got off a license plate (as in JAV-###). One person named their kid "Montecarlo", after the car. I've also heard Shiboozy, Henessey, Apple, and others.


 
Maybe even plays on words could be accepted. (?


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## pickypuck

alexacohen said:


> I was going to say in Spain, but apparently the different communities have different rules.


 
We have a common law. The articles are not strict at all, that's why it may seem to you that we have different laws for different communities.

The law is 40/1999 (5 November) if you want to check it. Basically it forbids names that objectively damage the child, colloquial-familiar names that have not reached a common use yet, and names that are ambiguous with respect to sex (I suppose this is the reason for Pau/Maria Pau that kiyama commented).

The law also says that you cannot give the same name (independently of the language) to a second child, unless your first child is dead. 

I read somewhere that they want to change the law and do it even more flexible. But in my opinion if a person finds problems, it is not due to the law, but to the public officer you encounter. One may think that a certain name is appropriate while other may do just the contrary.

Cheers!


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## Chaska Ñawi

Thank you to those people who kept on topic.

A reminder .... we're discussing the rules regarding naming children, not popular names or the history of names or a list of eccentric names.

Thanks for your understanding.


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## Namarne

Hello. 
Where I live names must be attested, by any mean or another. You cannot "create" a name. 
You can name your child with a foreigner name, a German name, for example, but then you must get some document: the signature of a German professor of the university could be enough. (Well, a professor of the German Studies Department, of course.) 
If the name of a girl is Meritxell (that exists, it's the name of the Virgin of an Andorran sanctuary, rather common here), you cannot register her as Txell, even though everybody will call her Txell.


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## dan9184

hi,
In Italy there are laws about naming children which are very similar to French ones.
For example some months ago I read on a newspaper that a couple would name their baby Venerdì (friday,also the name of Robinson's Crusoe servant) and a Court (i don't remember which one)chose another name for the baby.
there are many other laws about names which could  damage a child. 
bye


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## Zsanna

I do not know the actual law in Hungary only the one that was valid in 1990 when my copy of Hungarian First Names was published.

It is a book that contains all the first names that are/were allowed to be registered officially in the country at that time. 
All in all 1827 names of which 895 female and 932 male (chosen by a special committee of linguists from 3598 names originally).

The listed names are first grouped into male and female names and every one of them received an either "suggested" or "acceptable" label depending on how _well known_, _often used_, _becoming popular_ (suggested) or less so (acceptable) they are. 

If someone wished to register a name that did not appear in this book, there were mostly two possibilities: either a special permission had to be obtained from the National Intstitute of Linguistics about it or, if the parents were foreigners, they could chose any name they liked.

The reason for involving linguists into this process is (mainly) that they are supposed to be qualified best to decide about the right spelling of a name. In fact, when you read the "conditions for registering" part in the introduction, it is obvious that the major concern is linguistic (the name should "fit" well the language, from different points of view that would be a bit complicated to detail here). Meaning is only mentioned in the last point: "it cannot be the source of any misunderstanding".

No mention about female names to males or vice versa (probably) because it is an unknown phenomenon, nobody would think of it. 
Giving two first names, however, is quite normal. (Even if people do not use their middle names in their normal everyday life, though there are exceptions.)

It is a fairly well known thing, I mention it just in case: the normal Hungarian name order is 1. family name 2. first Christian name 3. second Christian name. 
(I used the term "Christian name" only to avoid confusion that "first" name could provoke after all, not everybody is catholic in the country.) 
The only exception is some possibilities married women can have but that is another story...


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## Angel.Aura

dan9184 said:


> hi,
> In Italy there are laws about naming children which are very similar to French ones.
> For example some months ago I read on a newspaper that a couple would name their baby Venerdì (friday,also the name of Robinson's Crusoe servant) and a Court (i don't remember which one)chose another name for the baby.
> there are many other laws about names which could  damage a child.
> bye


Just to add some information to dan9184's post, the Italian Law regarding the naming of children, allows to name them anyway his/her parents please with this exceptions/limits:

1. You can't give the newborn child the same name of his father, of his (living) brother or of her (living) sister, a surname in the place of a name, ridiculous or ashaming names.

2. The foreign names are allowed but have to be written using the letters of the Italian alphabet (including the letters J, K, X, Y, W).

3. The name given to the newborn must correspond to the gender of the child and it can be composed by a maximum of three elements (say, Giovanni Pietro Arturo, or John Peter Arthur).


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## sokol

Angel.Aura said:


> 1. You can't give the newborn child the same name of his father, of his (living) brother or of her (living) sister (...)



This is a *very *strange regulation compared to Austrian use where, a few decades ago, it was extremely usual to name one child after the father and a little bit less usual, but not uncommon to name a child after the mother - in both cases without a middle name being attached.

This tradition of naming after the parents however is not_ en vogue_ any more here and probably even might die out.
But I am just wondering how in Southern Tyrol, part of Italy and with the same naming traditions as Austria, the reaction was to these laws.


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## Angel.Aura

Ciao sokol,
It happens that children are named after their grandparents, here in Italy, even nowadays.
I've actually never met any woman named after her mother. And, as I reported before, it's just impossible to name a boy after his father.


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## Etcetera

I was named after my great-grandmother, and my name - Anna - is a very popular one. So my parents had no problems with registering me.

In the 1920s-1930s names like Revolutsiya (Revolution), Engels and so on were quite popular, and I actually met a person whose father's name was Engels. But nowadays such names seem ridiculous (and that is perfectly understandable). 

In the 1990s, when soap operas were exceedingly popular, there were reports in newspapers about parents who named their newborn daughters Alondras or Isauras. But I've never met anyone with such a name.

The civil servant, of course, may advise parents against some name if it seems inappropriate or something. But I don't think it happens too often - after all, in recent years parents seem to favour old names - like Olga, Daria, Ivan, and so on.


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## Nanon

A related thread (with some fancy names).

In France, foreign names and even fancy names are admitted if they are not considered "contrary to the interests of the child". This is what happened with the baby called "Thérébenthine": a name too difficult to explain, plus the poor girl would have had to spell it to everybody at all times. Finally, the parents' choice was criticised so heavily that the name was withdrawn. The information became public because the baby's mother is the national secretary of the Green party...
But if that baby would have been named after a flower, a tree, a fruit, an animal, a molecule... anything beautiful and of the feminine gender would have been accepted. [Or masculine, for a male baby].
The problem with turpentine is that it is a well-known solvent. Names of things that are known don't always work very well as first names. However if a baby is presented with the name, say, "Lysine", I am almost 100% sure the civil servant won't identify the name of an aminoacid and will think that parents are just being creative.

Some countries are very strict. I learnt here in WR that in Portugal, there is a list of admitted and not admitted names. Foreign forms and fancy names are not admitted, and many names used in the largest Portuguese-speaking country, Brazil, are not authorised in Portugal.



sokol said:


> This is a *very *strange regulation compared to Austrian use where, a few decades ago, it was extremely usual to name one child after the father and a little bit less usual, but not uncommon to name a child after the mother - in both cases without a middle name being attached.



There was a tradition (not a regulation) of naming children after their grandparents in several parts of France including Brittany and Corsica. Throughout generations, the same names were repeated in family lines.


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## katie_here

waspsmakejam said:


> In the UK there are no rules against giving baby's whimsical, silly, or gender-bending names - all that is required is a surname and at least one forename.
> 
> It is also extremely easy to change your name at any time, to anything you fancy.


 

You can also name give your child a name that is used for both girl and boy, for example, Ashley.  A very old english name from the Ash Tree, but is also now a girls name. 

It's been known for some people to name their children after the whole of a football team.


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## lewis3wa

In Florida I know of no law or office that regulates names.  However, I do know of a case when the parents wanted to name the child "urinal".  The nurse changed the name when preparing the material for the birth certificate.


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