# Can we post sound files that we need help to translate?



## shippothekit

I'm trying to translate a TV show but I get really stuck when they talk too fast. Would I be able to post audio clips of what I need help with (if I upload it to a host like megaupload)? I would try typing the words out myself but I just can't hear them clear enough to get the words. They talk way too fast for me.


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## jann

Unless the online audio and/or video file for the TV show is uploaded by the company that owns the rights to that show and is hosted on their own website or on a site officially endorsed by them, we cannot permit you to link to it under any circumstances.  This means that we couldn't allow you to upload TV show clips to a site like megaupload and then link to them.  We must be very careful of online copyright issues, because we wouldn't want to be held responsible.

Even when a clip is made available by the person who owns the rights to it, we ask that you contact a moderator by private message to ask permisson to post a link _before doing so._

I'm afraid that WordReference is not really an audio site, and is poorly adapted for that purpose at present.   I'm sorry.  I advise you to try to find someone near you who speaks the language and can help you to understand what is being said in the show, so that you will then be able to translate it. 

Good luck! 

Jann
Moderator


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## Paulfromitaly

Please remember the rule 16:



> No web pages or copyrighted or plagiarized content may be inserted into WordReference posts except as indicated below. Minor fair use excerpts from dictionaries such as a definition/translation or two are permitted. Quotes and translations of texts up to 4 sentences are permitted. Links to content elsewhere are acceptable and appropriate, provided such links meet the requirements stated elsewhere in these rules. Always acknowledge the source.
> *No audio or video files or links may be inserted without prior moderator approval. Threads with audio or video links must state which moderator approved them.*


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## MadrigalTriste

shippothekit said:


> I'm trying to translate a TV show but I get really stuck when they talk too fast. Would I be able to post audio clips of what I need help with (if I upload it to a host like megaupload)? I would try typing the words out myself but I just can't hear them clear enough to get the words. They talk way too fast for me.


 
Perhaps there can be a stickied thread where people post when they need help with audio. "Please send me a PM if you'd be so kind as to help me with an audio clip", etc. (Specifying source and target languages, no companies or product titles) That way, nobody is held responsible, the involved parties can arrange the file-sharing in private through their own email accounts, and you don't invade people's PM boxes either with out-of-the-blue requests.

Mods, is this a feasible idea?


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## TrentinaNE

It may be feasible, but in my opinion, it's not desirable. WordReference is not a "match-making" bulletin board. I'd prefer we not try to make it one. 

Elisabetta


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## MadrigalTriste

TrentinaNE said:


> It may be feasible, but in my opinion, it's not desirable. WordReference is not a "match-making" bulletin board. I'd prefer we not try to make it one.
> 
> Elisabetta


 
Hey, what about all the lonely people like me? 

Kidding.

Seriously though, I think it would be cool if the board facilitated more networking possibilities. While our profession requires constant feedback, it is ironic that, as translators, we often work in isolation. I do not think threads should be derailed with chatter, since they serve as an online dictionary, and should be to the point so as to save time for those using the tool. But there are endless possibilities that can be explored in private by making creative use of the PM feature.

[And anyway, I met my match on a board, it isn't the worst thing that can happen to ya. *wink*]


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## Flaminius

Hello Madrigal,

I seem to hear you requesting a means to publicly express transcription needs without guarantee  that the request is legitimate.  If that is the case, I see two problems.  First, we wish the WR fora to remain a venue for public discussion for greater language understanding (the WR mission statements better put it, though).  The major functions of the fora, including discussion space, open participants and moderation, are all for public language learning.

Second, providing such a leeway means the WR provide opportunities for copyright violations.  While it may not be directly involved in specific violations, it does not make the WR look very good.

Unfortunately, this proposal sounds like using the fora as an electronic notice board upon which little control can be exercised.  With all the complicatedness involved in copyrights, I am afraid the WR cannot handle audio requests like that.


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## MadrigalTriste

Flaminius said:


> Second, providing such a leeway means the WR provide opportunities for copyright violations. While it may not be directly involved in specific violations, it does not make the WR look very good.


 
This is the heart of the matter, I think. I do not see a difference between posting a few lines of a written text (as permitted and reccomended by forum policy) and sharing a tiny clip of audio.

If someone is translating audiovisual material, chances are it is for public consumption, since anything made on video is generally prepared for massive broadcasting. In this sense, it is probably even "safer" to share a tiny clip of audiovisual material as opposed to a tiny extract of any particular written document. As we know, translators often work with confidential/internal documents that will never be revealed to the public. This is not the case for audiovisual content.

About 90% of my work involves audiovisual material (I also study film), so that explains my particular interest in opening doors for subtitlers, while keeping it legal.  Just throwing out some ideas to ponder.

Actually, audiovisual material is more compromising because it involves the "image" of the actors or people involved, meaning it reveals a lot more information than an anonymous written text. I can see how it would be tricky to let a stranger possess that image. Perhaps you guys are right. I'm thinking aloud here.


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## TrentinaNE

MadrigalTriste said:


> [And anyway, I met my match on a board, it isn't the worst thing that can happen to ya. *wink*]


Congratulations. I've met a number of fine people online as well. But that's not WRF's purpose.  

Elisabetta

P.S.  While you "think aloud," remember that WRF netiquette frowns on successive posts by the same member.  You can use the "Edit" button for up to 24 hours, I believe.


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## MadrigalTriste

TrentinaNE said:


> Congratulations. I've met a number of fine people online as well. But that's not WRF's purpose.
> 
> Elisabetta
> 
> P.S. While you "think aloud," remember that WRF netiquette frowns on successive posts by the same member. You can use the "Edit" button for up to 24 hours, I believe.


 
Thanks! I'm familiar with that rule. I left it in a separate post because the two posts contradicted themselves. It was a conscious decision. (Edit: possibly not the right one, but I meant well!)


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## Jana337

MadrigalTriste said:


> This is the heart of the matter, I think. I do not see a difference between posting a few lines of a written text (as permitted and reccomended by forum policy) and sharing a tiny clip of audio.


I do. Clicking on an upload-hosting link very frequently produces a bunch of highly annoying pop-up windows (although they are supposed to be blocked by my browser) and in one case, my Avast started screaming. Pleugh.


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## MadrigalTriste

Jana337 said:


> I do. Clicking on an upload-hosting link very frequently produces a bunch of highly annoying pop-up windows (although they are supposed to be blocked by my browser) and in one case, my Avast started screaming. Pleugh.


Heh. I must say I have never asked anyone for help with audio (except for my twin sister who knows the same languages as me and is also a translator - I'm lucky). It is a real hassle to get help with these things any other way!


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## cuchuflete

Most people call it copyright law or intellectual property law, but the essence of the matter is that somebody invested time and effort and often their own funds into making what's on a video or audio clip, often as a source of livelihood.  They own it, they invested in creating it, and they are entitled to enjoy economic benefits from it.

We have no way of knowing if a hosted clip, say 60 seconds, is a tiny fraction of a work or the entirety of an original work.  We respect the rights of copyright owners, and strive to protect those, as well as to keep the forums out of legal difficulties.  While the law that governs the forums is nearly clear about "fair use" with regard to text, the statute and case law for audio and video materials continue to be, in laymen's terms, unsettled.  We really don't have the staff or the time to review a great many requests for permission to post links to such materials; what may appear to an average member to be "legitimate" because it is posted on a major hosting site, may very well be there illegally.  

The administrator of the forums was clear in stating the rule cited above.  Clips are not
at the core of our current mission, but may be allowed from time to time with prior permission.  

In the course of normal participation here, both asking for and providing help, most members have no difficulty getting to know other good collaborators.  PMs among members, if not unreasonably insistent and frequent, are a good way to ask for help beyond the scope of the forums.


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