# Feminine nouns without ـة taa' marbuuTa



## Qittat Ulthar

I was just thinking, in Arabic there are a handful of nouns, like 7arb, that are feminine despite not having a ta marbuta. There aren't very many of those and I am sure lists must exist of all Arabic nouns which are feminine despite not having a ta marbuta. 

Would anyone know where to find such a list on line?


----------



## ayed

Check this link
http://www.childclinic.net/pain/girls.html


----------



## Qittat Ulthar

That is a list for first names for girls. I meant a list of nouns that are feminine but do not end in ta marbuta, like bint, 7arb, arD, shams etc.?


----------



## ayed

Just browse the link again and see :
Under the letter ( ح), you would find: سماح-سحر-سخاء-سناء
Under the letter(ع), you find : عناس-عواطف


----------



## Qittat Ulthar

I am sorry, I am not looking for names, but for nouns, two different things in English.


----------



## be.010

There is plenty of Arabic feminine nouns (and adjectives) that do not end with ta2 marbouta, but there isn't a "cut and dried" list for them...
Here are some samples:
The form فعول is said for both feminine and masculine nouns/adjectives: e.g. امرأة عجوز، أكول، 
بتول (virgin, pure)
لعوب (playful)...
Other forms are فعلاء and فعلى forms (and some forms ending with اء), which are feminine, though don't end with ta2 marbuuta:
e.g. عذراء، خضراء،علياء، 
And, you know, there are also nouns that could only be learned by "memorizing them!", e.g.: الشمس، الأرض، السماء، الروح، الريح، العين، الأذن، الإصبع، 
(In Arabic, adjectives are also considered nouns...)

Best regards!

** P.S. Does "cut and dried" work in the context above?!! Thanks in advance...


----------



## clevermizo

be.010 said:


> ** P.S. Does "cut and dried" work in the context above?!! Thanks in advance...



We usually say "cut and dry" but come to think of it, "cut and dried" makes more sense.


----------



## be.010

Thanks very much my friend!


----------



## Qittat Ulthar

be.010 said:


> And, you know, there are also nouns that could only be learned by "memorizing them!", e.g.: الشمس، الأرض، السماء، الروح، الريح، العين، الأذن، البطن، الإصبع،


Exactly, those are the ones I am after. I would assume such a list exists somewhere, but as of yet I haven't found it.


----------



## eric489

Still, there is one thing I learned and is pretty helpful when it comes to spotting feminin nouns without ta marbuta.

"All the nouns which goes in pair, are feminine"

The word eye, عين is feminine because it goes in pair. ( 2 eyes )

It also concerns words which semantically go in pair.
Ex : war/peace
       sun/moon
       sky/earth
       sea/land  (total blind guess for this one here, correct me please)

Also, " All the nouns for objects which can be filled/emptied can be feminine and/or masculine."

This is just some grammar rules that I picked up during my lessons this year. But since the teacher hasn't got in detail with this ( this was barely mentionned), _do verify it_. I don't wanna spread bad info.


----------



## Qittat Ulthar

These are handy mnemonics, but they are not rules. There are many words which go in pairs but are not feminine, for example nahd.

Also, moon is masculine (qamar), so is peace (salaam).


----------



## Mahaodeh

eric489 said:


> "All the nouns which goes in pair, are feminine"


 
As Qittat mentioned, it's not a rule; منخار comes in a pair, but it's masculine so is مبيض (for an internal organ).



eric489 said:


> sea/land (total blind guess for this one here, correct me please)


 
البر والبحر Both are masculine actually  It also does not apply to السماء والأرض since both are feminine.

---

It's worth mentioning that sometimes even nouns with taa' at-ta'neeth al-marbouta are masculine (but very rare); an example would be ثعلبة, the desease not a she-fox, although it has a taa' it's actually feminine - but this one is easily spotted, it's feminine على اعتبار أنه داء.


----------



## eric489

Thanks for correcting me.

Also some plural masculine words have a the feminine mark.
As , sou'al - as 'ila  for question - questions


----------



## barkoosh

The المنجد dictionary lists some of those nouns in two groups: 1. nouns that are feminine 2. nouns that could be both masculine and feminine. However, as far as I know, some nouns of group 1 _can_ be masculine (PS: some of the following words are obsolete).

1.
أذن - أرض - أرنب - إصبع - أفعى - بئر - جحيم - جهنم - حرب - دار - ذراع - رِجْل - رحم - رحى - ريح - سَقَر (جهنم) - سنّ - ساق - شمس - شمال - ضبع - عَرُوض - عصا - عقب - عين - فأس - فخذ - فُلك - قدم - قوس - كأس - كتف - كرش - كفّ - نار - نعل - ناب - ورك - يد - يمين
Here in this group, I know that  أرنب - إصبع - ضبع - قوس - ناب are sometimes used in masculine.

2.
إبط - إزار - حال - حانوت - خمر - درع - دلو - روح - زقاق - سبيل - سُرى - سروال - سلاح - سكين - سِلْم - سُلَّم - سماء - سوق - صاع - ضُحى - طِرس - طريق - عَجُز - عضُد - عُقاب - عقرب - عنق - عنكبوت - فردوس - فرس - فِهْر - قِدْر - قفا - قميص - كبد - لسان - مِسْك - مِلح - منجنيق - موسًى - نفْس - وراء
The alphabet letters: ألف - باء - تاء...‏ can be both.
Note: in this group, some words are only used in masculine today, such as:
سروال - سلاح - لسان - ملح


----------



## jmt356

eric489 posted some useful rules, but later posts indicate that the rules do not always work.
So is there any way to determine whether a noun is feminine or masculine? Is it all pure memorization or are there guidelines that can be followed?

I find it confusing that a noun that ends in ء such as ضوء is masculine but another one ending in ء such as سماء is feminine.


----------



## Mahaodeh

jmt356 said:


> I find it confusing that a noun that ends in ء such as ضوء is masculine but another one ending in ء such as سماء is feminine.


While there are some markers that make words feminine rather than masculine, this is not a rule. Usually for nouns they are masculine or feminine more based on سماع (common usage) more than anything else. Moreover, the hamza is definitely not a marker in itself, certain forms that end with hamza are mostly feminine but not every word ending with hamza is feminine. Other examples of masculine words ending with hamza include: دعاء وولاء وداء ونداء وخباء وفيء وشيء ونوء


----------



## elroy

eric489 said:


> " All the nouns for objects which can be filled/emptied can be feminine and/or masculine."


 

How is this in any way intended to be useful?


----------



## Sun-Shine

Mahaodeh said:


> Moreover, the hamza is definitely not a marker in itself, certain forms that end with hamza are mostly feminine but not every word ending with hamza is feminine. Other examples of masculine words ending with hamza include: دعاء وولاء وداء ونداء وخباء وفيء وشيء ونوء


The words as صحراء، حمراء، صفراء are different from these words (دعاء، دواء،..) because they end withألف التأنيث الممدودة so they are feminine.


----------



## ausermilar

elroy said:


> How is this in any way intended to be useful?


Maybe it means that "all of them are masculine and, among them, some nouns are masculine and also feminine". The point is: what can we fill? ( a hospital filled with patients? a bus filled with hooligans? the palm of the hand filled with sand?). No, really, this rule is not too useful!


----------



## Ali Smith

eric489 said:


> Still, there is one thing I learned and is pretty helpful when it comes to spotting feminin nouns without ta marbuta.
> 
> "All the nouns which goes in pair, are feminine"
> 
> The word eye, عين is feminine because it goes in pair. ( 2 eyes )
> 
> It also concerns words which semantically go in pair.
> Ex : war/peace
> sun/moon
> sky/earth
> sea/land  (total blind guess for this one here, correct me please)
> 
> Also, " All the nouns for objects which can be filled/emptied can be feminine and/or masculine."
> 
> This is just some grammar rules that I picked up during my lessons this year. But since the teacher hasn't got in detail with this ( this was barely mentionned), _do verify it_. I don't wanna spread bad info.


Actually, the rule I was taught was that the parts of the body that are in pairs are feminine, but this does not seem to be true. Witness:

خَدّ cheek
مِرْفَق elbow
كَعْب ankle
عَقِب heel


----------



## Mahaodeh

eric489 said:


> It also concerns words which semantically go in pair.
> Ex : war/peace
> sun/moon
> sky/earth
> sea/land (total blind guess for this one here, correct me please)


This is not accurate, I don’t know why you would be taught such a thing! For example السلام والفيء والقمر والبحر واليم are all masculine, making only السماء والأرض correct in your examples - not to mention the more problematic issue of “semantically a pair”.


Ali Smith said:


> Actually, the rule I was taught was that the parts of the body that are in pairs are feminine, but this does not seem to be true.


I’m surprised about being taught this as a rule! We (native speakers) were taught that there is no rule. Your examples obviously show that.


----------



## WannaBFluent

Ali Smith said:


> Actually, the rule I was taught was that the parts of the body that are in pairs are feminine, but this does not seem to be true. Witness:
> 
> خَدّ cheek
> مِرْفَق elbow
> كَعْب ankle
> عَقِب heel


In most grammar books for foreigners, if not all, they say this as a rule indeed. But, as a native French speaker, I'm also aware that rules may accept exceptions (French grammar rules always have exceptions 😁). So it's not because some parts of the body that actually come in pair aren't feminine that the rule is false. The majority of parts of the body that come in pair are actually feminine without showing the ة.


----------



## zj73

عقب is female


----------

