# 他很能做事 / 他很會做事



## Anczan

Dear all,

another question from a textbook, where they discuss the usage of 會 and 能 and there is a sentence 他很能做事。(Translation in the book is: "He is very capable") but shouldn't it be 他很會做事。? As I understand this, 會 is for having the skill to do something and 能 for being able to do something.

Thank you so much


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## SuperXW

Anczan said:


> As I understand this, 會 is for having the skill to do something and 能 for being able to do something.


Not necessarily. 
My understanding of their basic meanings:
會：1. know how 2. will do (as in 將會. not applicable to 他很會做事)
能：1. can 2. has the ability to
So to me, 他很會做事 and 他很能做事 are the same.


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## xiaolijie

SuperXW is correct, 他很會做事 and 他很能做事 mean the same.
But what can confuse learners is there are are situations one is preferred to the other: we say "我会说汉语" but not "我能说汉语".


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## viajero_canjeado

xiaolijie said:


> SuperXW is correct, 他很會做事 and 他很能做事 mean the same.
> But what can confuse learners is there are are situations one is preferred to the other: we say "我会说汉语" but not "我能说汉语".



If you're referring to a statement of one's capacity/ability to speak a language, then that pointer holds up well; however there are instances where the second may be used as well, such as in reference to a language of the court:

Ａ：在本法庭前面能用漢語辯論嗎？［還是只有別的語言才行？］
Ｂ：您能說漢語。

This is just a random example to illustrate the difference between 會 and 能：the former refers to ability whereas the latter relates to permission. Of course, _​usually_ when talking about "being able to speak" languages, 會 is going to be used.


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## xiaolijie

viajero_canjeado said:


> This is just a random example to illustrate the difference between 會 and 能：the former refers to ability whereas the latter relates to permission. Of course, _​usually_ when talking about "being able to speak" languages, 會 is going to be used.



I said_* "there are are situations one is preferred to the other"*_ and you seem to be illustrating my point. Thank you!


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## Anczan

Thank you all for the explanation and the examples. Much appreciated. Have a nice weekend


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## verastar

The two sentences sound different to me.
"他很能做事" sounds like he is very hard-working, diligent; while "他很会做事" sounds similar to "他很会来事", which implies he is good at social networking.


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## SuperXW

verastar said:


> The two sentences sound different to me.
> "他很能做事" sounds like he is very hard-working, diligent; while "他很会做事" sounds similar to "他很会来事", which implies he is good at social networking.


To me, "他很能做事"="他很会做事", while "他很会来事" is very different...It's an oral way to say "he is good at bringing troubles"...


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## ItecKid

viajero_canjeado said:


> If you're referring to a statement of one's capacity/ability to speak a language, then that pointer holds up well; however there are instances where the second may be used as well, such as in reference to a language of the court:
> 
> Ａ：在本法庭前面能用漢語辯論嗎？［還是只有別的語言才行？］
> Ｂ：您能說漢語。
> 
> This is just a random example to illustrate the difference between 會 and 能：the former refers to ability whereas the latter relates to permission. Of course, _​usually_ when talking about "being able to speak" languages, 會 is going to be used.



I agree that 會 refers to ability or know-how, but I think 能 is more about being physically capable of doing something.  For permission, I believe 可以 is more appropriate.


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## viajero_canjeado

ItecKid said:


> I agree that 會 refers to ability or know-how, but I think 能 is more about being physically capable of doing something.  For permission, I believe 可以 is more appropriate.



From my experience, in spoken settings the word 可以 is way more common. In formal settings though, like the example above, 能 is usually used instead of 可以。I don't believe 能 is limited to describing "physical capability" any more than 可以 is, but I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for thinking that is the case. 

Here's another relevant thread you might find interesting: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=454492


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## BODYholic

verastar said:


> while "他很会做事" sounds similar to "他很会*来事*", which implies he is good at social networking.



来事!  
In my region, 来事 refers to 'something' women experience monthly. 如果'他'很会来事,最好找个医生看看。


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## Aoyama

xiaolijie said:


> we say "我会说汉语" but not "我能说汉语".


True. The (simple) problem (though many enlighted explanations and comments have been given) is that 能 generally _cannot be translated by "can". _可以 can be (translated as "can") as in 我可以说汉语, though, if understandable, probably not very idiomatic. 
會/会 is better, like the French "savoir + infinitive" (je sais parler ... / I know _how to _speak ...). It shows that 會/会 + verb may also mean "to know how to + verb".
能 originally means "power", 可能 "possibility, capacity". I don't think 我可能说汉语 is possible, but probably a wee bit better than 我能说汉语 ...
As for





> In my region, 来事 refers to 'something' women experience monthly. 如果'他'很会来事,最好找个医生看看


 ... well, we learn things ...
But then, I would rather write 她很会来事, 他很会来事 may sound funny ...


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## verastar

BODYholic said:


> 来事!
> In my region, 来事 refers to 'something' women experience monthly. 如果'他'很会来事,最好找个医生看看。


Yeah, 来事 has a same meaning in my region, too. But we will say something like "她来事儿了"
“会来事儿” is certainly different from "来事儿"
http://ks.cn.yahoo.com/question/1408030800765.html
This is a thread about "会来事"


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## 南島君

Hi all,

I think the discussion above is more than sufficient to explain the  question. Just a suggestion: you can follow this issue by reading  呂叔湘《中國文法要略》section 14.41-14.49 (or the whole chapter 14) in case you are  interested.

The main point is As an aside:



verastar said:


> （恕刪）...while "他很会做事"  sounds similar to "他很会来事", which implies he is good at social  networking.





SuperXW said:


> To me, "他很能做事"="他很会做事", while "他很会来事" is very  different...It's an oral way to say "he is good at bringing  troubles"...





BODYholic said:


> （恕刪）...In my region, 来事 refers to 'something' women experience monthly. 如果'他'很会来事,最好找个医生看看。


《漢典》 「來事」
This  is interesting. The verb 「來」 in my variation of Mandarin is essentially  an unaccusative verb, i'd never encounter ergative 「來」 other than 「來運」,  yet the causative alternation of  「來」 is theoretically acceptable. 
BODYholic's 來(月)事 is an unaccusative 「來」, but both SuperXW and verastar's  來事 is an ergative 「來」.

Well, as for SuperXW's doubt, please compare 「聰明」 in following contexts:
小葛考試得滿分，真*聰明*。
你真*聰明*，知道買便當卻不知道要買筷子，我真佩服你！
You  would have learned that some if not many words with opposition meaning  sometimes can be used with a satire tone that might possible lead to the  change of its main sense, which could be the case i would suggest  for the 「來事」 in your understanding.



Aoyama said:


> （恕刪）...But then, I would rather write 她很会来事, 他很会来事 may sound funny ...


Sorry  but Chinese(s) do not have the gender feature, although it can be  "shown" in written Chinese, it is not compulsory, not to mention the  oral Mandarin doesn't even bother to distinguish them.


lc


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## Aoyama

This is not the topic of this thread, but I think that usage of 他 and 她 to render "he" and "she" (a concept originally not present in Chinese grammar, I agree) is common now (has been for twenty years) ...


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## SuperXW

南島君 said:


> This is interesting. The verb 「來」 in my variation of Mandarin is essentially an unaccusative verb, i'd never encounter ergative 「來」 other than 「來運」, yet the causative alternation of 「來」 is theoretically acceptable.
> BODYholic's 來(月)事 is an unaccusative 「來」, but both SuperXW and verastar's 來事 is an ergative 「來」.


Really...? I think it's often ergative, especially in spoken Mandarine. For example, 來事 means 來月經... Also, 來財,來錢來得快,來思路,來想法,來客人,來人啊,來信,來電話,來一段兒,來首歌... 



南島君 said:


> Well, as for SuperXW's doubt, please compare 「聰明」 in following contexts:
> 小葛考試得滿分，真*聰明*。
> 你真*聰明*，知道買便當卻不知道要買筷子，我真佩服你！
> You would have learned that some if not many words with opposition meaning sometimes can be used with a satire tone that might possible lead to the change of its main sense, which could be the case i would suggest for the 「來事」 in your understanding.


For 很會來事 case, I think the ambiguity lies in the meaning of 事. It's truly a flexible word that could literally indicate anything. Of course it could replace menses when ladies are hesitated to utter that word. Also in northen dialect, 事兒 (usually with the 兒 color) could mean trouble, such as in 事兒多,事兒媽,你怎麼這麼「事兒」啊！ That's why 來事（兒）could mean "bringing troubles".


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## 南島君

SuperXW said:


> (恕刪)... For 很會來事 case, I think the ambiguity lies in the meaning of 事. It's  truly a flexible word that could literally indicate anything. Of course  it could replace menses when ladies are hesitated to utter that word. Also in northen dialect, 事兒 (usually with the 兒 color) could mean trouble, such as in 事兒多,事兒媽,你怎麼這麼「事兒」啊！ That's why 來事（兒）could mean "bringing troubles".


Yes, i agree your opinion is a possible understanding of current issue too.  
Please check your PM for my reply on ergative  「來」.


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## wilt2011

Anczan said:


> Dear all,
> 
> another question from a textbook, where they discuss the usage of 會 and 能 and there is a sentence 他很能做事。(Translation in the book is: "He is very capable") but shouldn't it be 他很會做事。? As I understand this, 會 is for having the skill to do something and 能 for being able to do something.
> 
> Thank you so much



The two sentences loosely mean the same thing in most contexts. If you want to make some difference, 能 can be translated as "is capable to" while 会 can be regarded as "can". So 他很会做事, in some context,  might imply that he is clever in knowing what to do and having them done.


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## Anczan

> The two sentences loosely mean the same thing in most contexts. If you want to make some difference, 能 can be translated as "is capable to" while 会 can be regarded as "can". So 他很会做事, in some context,  might imply that he is clever in knowing what to do and having them done.



Thank you Wilt2011 for clearing that up!!


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## verastar

SuperXW said:


> Really...? I think it's often ergative, especially in spoken Mandarine. For example, 來事 means 來月經... Also, 來財,來錢來得快,來思路,來想法,來客人,來人啊,來信,來電話,來一段兒,來首歌...
> 
> 
> For 很會來事 case, I think the ambiguity lies in the meaning of 事. It's truly a flexible word that could literally indicate anything. Of course it could replace menses when ladies are hesitated to utter that word. Also in northen dialect, 事兒 (usually with the 兒 color) could mean trouble, such as in 事兒多,事兒媽,你怎麼這麼「事兒」啊！ That's why 來事（兒）could mean "bringing troubles".



This is very interesting. I live in Beijing and the Northeast part of mainland China. For "事儿多"“事儿妈”“他特别事儿”, 事 means troubles.
But for 来事儿, it has completely different meanings, as I said before. If we want to say bringing troubles, we will use "他特别会招事儿" “他特别会惹事儿”


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## SuperXW

verastar said:


> This is very interesting. I live in Beijing and the Northeast part of mainland China. For "事儿多"“事儿妈”“他特别事儿”, 事 means troubles.
> But for 来事儿, it has completely different meanings, as I said before. If we want to say bringing troubles, we will use "他特别会招事儿" “他特别会惹事儿”


Really? My hometown is Beijing but I haven't been living there for years. So I could be wrong about the slangs.


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