# efcharisto (Greek), lieutenant (BrE)



## Scholiast

Greetings all

I ought to know this, but like Socrates, the only thing I know is that I know nothing.

Classical Greek diphthongs (-)αυ- and (-)ευ have been modified in modern Greek to the sounds 'af' and 'ef' respectively. Peculiarly (I cannot think of another example) in BrE 'lieutenant' is pronounced 'leftenant' (it remains 'lootenant' in AmE).

Two questions arise. First, is there in scientific philology a term for this sound-shift, and an explanation?

Secondly, are there, whether in English or other languages apart from Greek, further examples of this curious phenomenon?

Σ


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## Kevin Beach

I am speaking from ignorance of a precise answer to your question, but I think there may be an answer from general "learning".

There were a lot of affections in speech in the past. People pretended they knew more than they did. Many still do (not me, of course, I'm always very modest about my ignorance! )

I can imagine that somebody who may have studied classics but not modern languages may have assumed that the "eu" in "lieutenant" betrayed a Greek origin and decided to apply the sound shift accordingly. Depending on when it started, it could have been reinforced by national enmity at one of the many times when Britian was at war with France.

If I'm right, then "leftenant" is a one off. But perhaps I'm wrong.


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## apmoy70

There's one prominent historical linguist who has tried to explain the sound shifts occured in the Greek of Hellenistic, later Roman, and early Byzantine periods: Sven-Tage Teodorsson.
According to prof. Teodorsson, the earliest evidence of *frication of the final [ u]-element, of the relevant diphthongs* αυ/ευ/ηυ as /aw/, /ew/, /iw/ is found in the vulgar Attic of the urban poor (the speech of the moderately educated and the aristocracy is more conservative) of the mid-4th c. BCE, together with (a) the loss of vowel-length distinctions, (b) the associated shift to a stress accent, (c) the completion of the raising of [e:] (η) > [i:] and (d) the loss of lip-rounding in [y:] (υ).
By the mid-2nd c. BCE, the frication of the [ u]-element of the relevant diphthongs progressed through [ɸʷ/βʷ] to [ɸ/β] and by early Byzantine times to [f/v] ([-v] before vowel or voiced consonant, else [-f]) which is essentially the MoGr system


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## Määränpää

In Swedish Swedish (but not in Finnish Swedish), the letter combination "eu" in Greek loanwords is normally pronounced [ev]. [v] can become devoiced into [f] if it's followed by a voiceless consonant, for example in the word "terapeut" (therapist, θεραπευτής).

In French loanwords, the letter combination "eu" is normally replaced with the letter "ö" and pronounced [ø] or [œ].

(The Swedish word for lieutenant, "löjtnant" has been borrowed from French via German so it doesn't behave like a normal French loanword.)


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## Ihsiin

I believe (and I may of course be mistaken here) that in Middle French both ‘lef’ and ‘loo’ pronounciations existed, and both we’re imported into English. I know that in Middle English spellings such as ‘leftenant’ can be found, and it is believed that both promounciations were used. It seems that in British English the ‘lef’ pronounciation dominated, but the spelling was normalised to the standard French.


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## danielstan

Scholiast said:


> Secondly, are there, whether in English or other languages apart from Greek, further examples of this curious phenomenon?
> 
> Σ


In many Slavic languages the loanwords starting with '_auto_' are pronounced with '_avto_':
_avtomobil_, _avtocesta _(Croatia) etc.

Aromanian and Istro-Romanian have also this phonetic change:
_aud _(standard Romanian) = _avdu _(Aromanian) ("I hear")
_laud _(standard Romanian) = _alavdu _(Aromanian) ("I praise")

I guess this is a Balkanic phenomenon started in Greek and propagated in other languages there...


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## Riverplatense

danielstan said:


> In many Slavic languages the loanwords starting with '_auto_' are pronounced with '_avto_':



The same goes for words with original <ευ>, like Russian Европа ‹Europe›. I guess they are loaned like this from Greek.



Scholiast said:


> Secondly, are there, whether in English or other languages apart from Greek, further examples of this curious phenomenon?



As far as I know it also appears in Romagnolian, where Latin AUTUMNUM developed to _aftun_.


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## Scholiast

Greetings again.

First, thanks to all respondents so far. Thinking further, it occurs to me that something comparable happens in the transformation  of a Latin -v- [pronounced as 'w'] to French derivatives, as e.g. _ovis_ > _oeuf_, Lat. _bovis_ > _boeuf_, and probably lots more.

And @Riverplatense: please, what is 'Romagnolian'?

Σ


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## Riverplatense

Scholiast said:


> And @Riverplatense: please, what is 'Romagnolian'?



Sometimes it's better to look things up before posting . What I meant is the Romagnol dialect.


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## Riverplatense

By the way, Romagnol dictionaries mostly give _autun_ or _auton_, but I have found an instance here (Carlo Battisti, _Testi dialettali italiani_, Halle a. S. 1921, p. 67, first line), in the dialect of Novellara (Reggiano!).

Besides, also in Ladin (Badiot) this diphthong developed a consonantic part, we have _altonn_ ‹autumn› or _aldí _‹to hear› ← AUDIRE etc.


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## berndf

Scholiast said:


> Peculiarly (I cannot think of another example) in BrE 'lieutenant' is pronounced 'leftenant' (it remains 'lootenant' in AmE).


The duality of the pronunciations with and without_ f _(or_ v_)_= _is very ancient as evidenced by Middle English spellings. How it came about, one can only speculate. The OED suggests if might simply be due to a graphical_ u/v-_confusion. Others suggest, it might be due to a historical Northern French dialectal variant of the word _lieu_. In modern military use, the pronunciation with _f_ is Army use, the pronunciation without _f_ is Navy use.


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## merquiades

Q_u_ is (mostly) pronounced as _qv _in German:  _bequem_.  There are certainly many examples in languages of _u_ being pronounced _v _or _f_.
In English _ough_ is often_ f_:  _tough, rough, cough._  In this case, the _ough_ was originally [x].



berndf said:


> it might be due to a historical Northern French dialectal variant of the word _lieu_. In modern military use, the pronunciation with _f_ is Army use, the pronunciation without _f_ is Navy use.


 When I listen to Quebec television I sometimes hear a strange [r] sound in some speakers following final [ø]:  je peux. Maybe it is related somehow by Norman influences.


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## Cenzontle

> First, is there in scientific philology a term for this sound-shift


It looks to me like a sequence of two changes:
(1) fortition of the rounded (= labial) glide [w] into [v] (closer approach of the articulators, resulting in consonantal air friction); and
(2) regressive assimilation of voicelessness, making [v] > [f] in imitation of the following voiceless consonant.
The [f] occurs only before a voiceless consonant, right?  Gr. "evcharisto", Russ. "a[f]tomobil'",...?


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## sotos

Do we have a similar phenomenon with νεύρον > *nevre > nerve? Also, ευαγγέλιον > evangelic


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## Riverplatense

sotos said:


> Do we have a similar phenomenon with νεύρον > *nevre > nerve?



I don't think so: It seems to be a case of liquid metathesis, by which original [-u-]  passed to post-consonantic position and so was pronounced just as other post-consonantic [w], which later transformed to [v] (like SERVITIUM [-rw-] → Ital. _servizio _[-rv-]). As for [v] → [f], there's also final-sound desonorisation.


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## fdb

sotos said:


> Do we have a similar phenomenon with νεύρον > *nevre > nerve?



Not quite the same. Gk νεύρον and Latin nervus are IE cognates. The shift of Latin /w/ to Romance /v/ is regular in all positions.


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## sotos

How about _evangelist?_


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## Määränpää

sotos said:


> How about _evangelist?_


It seems that the Greek loanwords relating to the gospel are always pronounced with a consonant sound (in all languages?). Maybe it was easier to say [eva] than [eua], so in these words ευ became "ev" early (in Latin) and therefore didn't go through the sound shifts that happened later in some languages to the other "eu" words.

In this thread, some German people are discussing whether it should be [eva] or [efa], but nobody is suggesting it should be [oia] like in "Europa" or "euphorisch": Ewangelisch oder Efangelisch? - wer-weiss-was.de die Experten- und Ratgeber-Community


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## sotos

Määränpää said:


> It seems that the Greek loanwords relating to the gospel are always pronounced with a consonant sound (in all languages?). Maybe it was easier to say [eva] than [eua], so in these words ευ became "ev" early (in Latin) and therefore didn't go through the sound shifts that happened later in some languages to the other "eu" words.


Do we have other examples? Eucarist is pronounced "Yukarist", Paulus is pronounce Paulus and not Pavlus.


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## Määränpää

sotos said:


> Määränpää said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the Greek loanwords relating to the gospel are always pronounced with a consonant sound (in all languages?).
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have other examples? Eucarist is pronounced "Yukarist", Paulus is pronounce Paulus and not Pavlus.
Click to expand...

I meant "the words that are etymologically related to the word _evangelium_". Evangelical, evangelist, evangelize...


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## berndf

Määränpää said:


> It seems that the Greek loanwords relating to the gospel are always pronounced with a consonant sound (in all languages?). Maybe it was easier to say [eva] than [eua], so in these words ευ became "ev" early (in Latin) and therefore didn't go through the sound shifts that happened later in some languages to the other "eu" words.
> 
> In this thread, some German people are discussing whether it should be [eva] or [efa], but nobody is suggesting it should be [oia] like in "Europa" or "euphorisch": Ewangelisch oder Efangelisch? - wer-weiss-was.de die Experten- und Ratgeber-Community


Consonantic υ in the cluster ευ is the exception and not the rule. It occurs only when the υ appears intervocalically. This breaks the diphthong and makes υ the beginning of a new syllable. This happened already in Koine Greek. It is purely phonological and has no etymological reasons. I wouldn't try to build a big theory about such cases.


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