# savings (plural) account



## nosce te ipsum

Últimamente me ha surgido una duda acerca de los premodificadores en inglés, pues; toda la vida me han dicho que un premodificador no debe ir en plural, es decir * a two day trip*: un viaje de tres días, *black big houses*: casa grandes y negras. Pero, encontré que hay un sustantivo cuyo premodificador está en plural *savings account*:cuenta de ahorros, ¿por qué en el anterior ejmeplo el premodificador está en plural si la regla dice que no? ¿Hay otros ejemplos de este tipo? Muchas gracias.


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## JB

"Savings" no es adjetivo, sino sustantivo, y significa lo que significa "ahorros", exactamente como en español. 

Nota del Moderador:  Por favor, antes de abrir su próximo hilo, repase las instrucciones sobre títulos de hilos dentro de las Reglas de WR, y nunca incluya "en español 
" o "en inglés" dentro de un título. Gracias.


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## k-in-sc

nosce te ipsum said:


> *black big houses[/B] big black houses: casas grandes y negras. Pero, encontré que hay un sustantivo cuyo premodificador está en plural savings account:cuenta de ahorros, ¿por qué en el anterior ejmeplo el premodificador está en plural si la regla dice que no? ¿Hay otros ejemplos de este tipo? Muchas gracias.*


*Savings account 
There's no rule.*


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## duvija

Se está usando cada vez más (la regla del singular suena rara en algunos casos).
_Bally's sports club_ (el argumento es que es más de un deporte, pero es absurdo porque se sabía que la regla anterior no significaba que era uno solo: _toothbrush_ (no es para un solo diente), _record player_ (más de un disco), _Book club_ (un libro por mes, y no uno sólo, aunque una vecina mía, no muy joven, dice que el que ella atiende desde hace años, va a cambiar y ser realmente un 'book club' . Leer uno, discutirlo, y al mes siguiente volver a leer el mismo porque ya nadie se acuerda de nada de un mes a otro).


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## k-in-sc

Maybe it's because in this case "savings" is a concrete noun _(ahorros)_ and "saving" is a verbal noun _(ahorrar)_.


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> Maybe it's because in this case "savings" is a concrete noun _(ahorros)_ and "saving" is a verbal noun _(ahorrar)_.


 
Curioso que en castellano también es 'una cuenta de ahorros' *y no de 'ahorro'.
Tu teoría no sirve para 'book club', porque book también es un nombre concreto, no? ah, pero además ¿tiene que ser un verbal noun?
Busquemos más ejemplos.
A riding horse/riding horses (no es 'ridings')
floating casinoes/casinos ... igual
reading room/ reading rooms ...

No encuentro ejemplos que funcionen en plural! 
Creo que no hay regla y que depende del nombre que les dieron al nacer


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## k-in-sc

It's not arbitrary that it's a "savings" account (a place to park your savings) and not a "saving" account (an account in which to save). It's still a savings account if you're not actively saving, or even if you're drawing it down. 
"Reading" refers to the action of reading, just as "saving" refers to the action of saving. "Casino" is not formed from a verb.


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> It's not arbitrary that it's a "savings" account (a place to park your savings) and not a "saving" account (an account in which to save). It's still a savings account if you're not actively saving, or even if you're drawing it down.
> "Reading" refers to the action of reading, just as "saving" refers to the action of saving. "Casino" is not formed from a verb.


 

Tenés razón. Hay que seguir buscando ejemplos. Es que muchas veces me llamó la atención ver plurales donde en teoría tendrían que ser singulares. Tratemos de pensar... (Lo único que se me ocurre es alguna lindeza como 'you fucking bitches', pero tampoco funciona como lo queremos).
Un problema es que además del 'savings account', está el 'checking account', y no es 'checkings'. 
¿Qué otro 'gerundio' se usa así, en plural?


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## k-in-sc

Mainly because the word "checkings" doesn't really exist, and because "checking" indicates how the account is used and not what it contains.
I can't think of any plural gerunds right now. Terms like "sales tax," "graphics card" and "news story" don't help. ...


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## duvija

Ok, when I want strange answers, I go straight to my husband. The 'scenario' he came up with: a Museum that shows mementos of linching/hanging... 

We cannot call it 'The linching Museum, or The hanging Museum', because nobody would go there out of fear, so it has to be 'The linchings Museum', or 'The hangings Museum'.  
The worst is that I believe he may be right, but it's not a great generalization...

Still, are those examples possible? (his idea is that for a plural, it has to be -a data bank, a library, a museum, etc.- Don't ask me why. And no, he's not a linguist, of course).


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## Kcris

k-in-sc said:


> ... and "news story" don't help. ...


I guess that your last example fits just too well for the purpose. The reason why _news _or _savings _may *MUST *be used in plural form to fill in the adjective part is that they are nouns themselves. You *CANNOT* go without the _s_.

Regards!


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## k-in-sc

"News" doesn't help because we're looking for verbal nouns (gerunds). 
As far as the Museum of L*y*nching(s)/Hanging(s), it sounds so much better with ''of'' that I can't imagine it the other way. Same with "hauntings." But I could see something like "sightings log," meaning a record of sightings, of whales or birds or ghosts or whatever.


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> "News" doesn't help because we're looking for verbal nouns (gerunds).
> As far as the Museum of L*y*nching(s)/Hanging(s), it sounds so much better with ''of'' that I can't imagine it the other way. Same with "hauntings." But I could see something like "sightings log," meaning a record of sightings, of whales or birds or ghosts or whatever.


 

Sorry, the last time I lynched someone, it didn't go well, cuz I was just 'linching', and we know how this goes...

A ghostings log? 
Is it possible that 'savings account' is a unique case? (I can't believe it. It gives me ulcers, so I have to find at least one more)


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## k-in-sc

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="sightings+log"


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## Kcris

k-in-sc said:


> "News" doesn't help because we're looking for verbal nouns (gerunds).


To me, they are all the same i.e. nouns, wherever they've come from.
Just like _sightings log_: records where you keep information about sightings. You can always go with (and I have read) _sighting log_ (log that sights? ) but it could be a little misleading.
I still see no issue with that _s_.


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## k-in-sc

We're looking for nouns that fit this pattern. You're welcome to think they're all the same, but they're not.


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## Kcris

duvija said:


> A ghostings log?


Ghosts don't _ghost_, they just appear. Every time you see one of them you have a _ghost sighting_. Hence, the collection is _sightings_.


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## k-in-sc

"Sighting" is formed from the verb "sight." "News" is not formed from a verb. That's the difference.


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## The Prof

Clothes horse?


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## Kcris

k-in-sc said:


> "Sighting" is formed from the verb "sight." "News" is not formed from a verb. That's the difference.


I've clearly seen that difference from the very beginning of this thread. But I see non-native English speakers get confused because of the _s_' presence rather than the gerund origin.

They tend to think of the gerund as adjective, like we've always been taught. Here it is not a gerund-origin adjective, but a noun itself (in its plural form, of course) instead.

That's the crux, I guess.
Hope it helps.


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## k-in-sc

Kcris said:


> They tend to think of the gerund as adjective, like we've always been taught.


I don't see why they would teach you a gerund is an adjective when it's a noun by definition. 
The _gerundio_ is different (but also not an adjective):
Gerund
As applied to English, it refers to the usage of a verb (in its -ing form) as a *noun *(for example, the verb "learning" in the sentence "Learning is an easy process for some"). This is also the term's use as applied to Latin; see Latin conjugation.
As applied to Spanish, it refers to an adverbial participle (a verbal *adverb*), called in Spanish the _gerundio_.


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## Kcris

k-in-sc said:


> I don't see why they would teach you a gerund is an adjective when it's a noun by definition.


Because when you want to apply the abilities of a verb to a noun you are told to conjugate such verb and use its gerund. E.g.:
-A machine that sews: _sewing machine_.
-A gas that makes you laugh: _laughing gas_, an so on.

 (Teachers, lead them kids alone).


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## k-in-sc

Well, you were obviously paying attention in class  I guess they just forgot to mention the fact that those gerunds are actually nouns used as adjectives, of which English has zillions.


Kcris said:


> (Teachers, lea*ve* them kids alone)


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## Irma2011

¿Valdria "greetings card"?


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## k-in-sc

Hmm ... "greeting card"? I guess it could be plural. Usually singular though.

We are here to provide all of you Online Greetings Cards for the purpose of celebrate your faesitavals with greets to your friend and relatives throgh Happy Birthday greetings card, Valentine Days cards and all other Online Greetings Cardweeeding Cards and here create your Own greetings Books and cards ...


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## pubman

I would also say "Greetings card"


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## k-in-sc

I'm kind of thinking it's BrE. But if any native speakers say it, it would count.


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## cobre

K-in-sc
I kind of like it his way....

I have too many friends trying to teach in inner city schools with little or no support from parents or community.



Kcris said:


> (Teachers, lead them kids alone).


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## Kcris

k-in-sc said:


> Well, you were obviously paying attention in class


I guess that's why all my classmates wanted to sit next to me for exams. Oh, now I see! 



Kcris said:


> (Teachers, lea*ve* them kids alone).


Oops! The hurry!


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="sightings+log"


 

¡Bien!!! ¡éste funciona!


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## k-in-sc

duvija said:


> ¡Bien!!! ¡éste funciona!


"Greetings card" too, apparently, if you're British ...


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