# arch-nemesis



## V52

can anynoe help me on this sentence?

" I always tought my arch-nemesis would to be taller, buffer, and well, not so much of a fruitcake"
Context : a teen and his rock band have been excluded by a rock competition, the winners off course show off and send them away (the situation is very funny...)
Thanks in advance
VIttorio


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## uinni

Hi!


			
				Vittorio52 said:
			
		

> can anynoe help me on this sentence?
> 
> " I always tought my arch-nemesis would to be taller, buffer, and well, not so much of a fruitcake"
> Context : a teen and his rock band have been excluded by a rock competition, the winners off course show off and send them away (the situation is very funny...)
> Thanks in advance
> VIttorio


From the context, I guess that "arch-nemesis" is a mispelled word. It is very likely that it should be archenemy (for the nemesys is quite a different thing).
As far as "fruitcake" is concerned, it is slang: crazy or eccentric person... but in this context I would translated it by "mezze seghe", as they expected them to be "taller" and "buffer"...

Uinni.


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## lsp

arch = chief or principal
nemesis = the implacable cause of one's demise

He finds it ironic that he lost to someone with an image so unlike what he expected.


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## radiation woman

Here's my correction:

"I always thought my arch-nemesis would (to ) be taller, buffer, and well, not so much of a fruitcake."

You're probably already aware of this, but I'll mention it just the same - fruitcake is an American English term, but it is also understood by BE speakers.


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## Silvia

Ho sempre pensato che la mia punizione capitale fosse quella di essere più... and here we have to understand what he means by tall and buff, because I guess there are more meanings...

... e, insomma, non proprio uno fuori di testa.


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## lsp

Silvia said:
			
		

> Ho sempre pensato che la mia punizione capitale fosse quella di essere più... and here we have to understand what he means by tall and buff, because I guess there are more meanings...
> 
> ... e, insomma, non proprio uno fuori di testa.


tall, well, that one needs no explanation, so ...
buff = in good physical shape especially with regard to muscle tone


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## uinni

Ciao.


			
				Silvia said:
			
		

> Ho sempre pensato che la mia punizione capitale fosse quella di essere più... and here we have to understand what he means by tall and buff, because I guess there are more meanings...
> 
> ... e, insomma, non proprio uno fuori di testa.


 
Non penso che questa traduzione sia corretta (rimaniamo nel dubbio se si tratti di estrema nemesi arci/acerrimo nemico).
E' la "arch-nemesis ad essere più", non il soggetto che fa la considerazione, altrimenti la costruzione verbale sarebbe stata diversa.
Uinni


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## Silvia

Sì, Uinni, in effetti... avrei detto "would (have been) being taller and buffer", ma non so... è pur sempre un ragazzino! Qualcuno può chiarire se si tratti di errore di trascrizione, errore colloquiale o che altro?


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## carrickp

lsp said:
			
		

> arch = chief or principal
> nemesis = the implacable cause of one's demise
> 
> He finds it ironic that he lost to someone with an image so unlike what he expected.



This obviously is very confusing to non-English speakers. You should know, though, that lsp has it exactly right (as always).


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## uinni

carrickp said:
			
		

> This obviously is very confusing to non-English speakers. You should know, though, that lsp has it exactly right (as always).


 
Well, the only thing that is confusing is the usage of "nemesis", which has the very same meaning of the corresponding Italian nemesi, which here does not fit at all (moreover used with the prefix "arch", which is absurd, for there is only one nemesis...) - and that's why I proposed the eventuality of bad usage of the word in post #2.


Uinni


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## Silvia

Ahhh, ho proprio preso fischi per fiaschi!  Tutto per colpa di quel "to"...

Ho sempre pensato che il mio principale avversario (o il mio più acerrimo nemico) fosse più alto e più tonico... be', non proprio così schizzato.

Something along those lines... what do you think?


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## ElaineG

Arch-nemesis is something of a made up word, but if you do a Google search, you'll see that it has become fairly common.  Here, I suspect the writer is using it for its humorous effect -- using a fancy sounding dramatic word to describe the conflict between two young boys.  Arch=greatest, or chief; nemesis=bane of my existence.


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## Silvia

Or ho sempre pensato che la sciagura della mia vita fosse più alta, più tonica... ma non così fuori di testa.


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## uinni

Silvia said:
			
		

> Ahhh, ho proprio preso fischi per fiaschi!  Tutto per colpa di quel "to"...
> 
> Ho sempre pensato che il mio principale avversario (o il mio più acerrimo nemico) fosse più alto e più tonico... be', non proprio così schizzato.
> 
> Something along those lines... what do you think?


 
Secondo me il contrario di "alto e tonico" non è "schizzato" ma "mezza sega" (son pervicace, nevvero?  Tuttavia ho come la sensazione che chi posta non percorra tutto il thread ma più o meno legga il primo e l'ultimo post... - basta guardare il filo "logico" che segue questo trhead... )

Uinni.


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## carrickp

uinni said:
			
		

> Well, the only thing that is confusing is the usage of "nemesis", which has the very same meaning of the corresponding Italian nemesi, which here does not fit at all (moreover used with the prefix "arch", which is absurd, for there is only one nemesis...) - and that's why I proposed the eventuality of bad usage of the word in post #2.
> 
> 
> Uinni



This re-emphasizes a point that has arisen here before: Italian is MUCH more punctilious about usages like this than English is. In conversational English (as ElaineG points out) this by no means stands out as an incorrect usage -- and one criticizing it as such in AE, at least, would be considered very academic. In Italian, on the other hand, for Uinni it stands out like a sore thumb. Well, if all languages were alike, we would not need forums such as this.


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## Silvia

uinni said:
			
		

> Secondo me il contrario di "alto e tonico" non è "schizzato" ma "mezza sega" (son pervicace, nevvero?  Tuttavia ho come la sensazione che chi posta non percorra tutto il thread ma più o meno legga il primo e l'ultimo post... - basta guardare il filo "logico" che segue questo trhead... )


Se stai parlando di me, io veramente ho letto tutti i post... ero solo un po' di fretta. Mi pento e mi dolgo... quante scudisciate ci vogliono? Spero sia previsto un alleggerimento della pena. Comunque a me la traduzione volgare non piace, visto che non è volgare la versione originale.


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## uinni

Silvia said:
			
		

> Se stai parlando di me, io veramente ho letto tutti i post... ero solo un po' di fretta. Mi pento e mi dolgo... quante scudisciate ci vogliono? Spero sia previsto un alleggerimento della pena. Comunque a me la traduzione volgare non piace, visto che non è volgare la versione originale.


 
Il mio era un discorso genereale, comunque -che osservo non di rado.

Però se non vogliamo usare la forma sboccata, cosa suggeriresti (ammesso che effettivamente il corretto "schizzato" possa essere sostituito da un termine equivalente alla "mezza sega"  -as natives did not give us a practical help about this yet)?

Uinni


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## V52

Silvia said:
			
		

> Ahhh, ho proprio preso fischi per fiaschi!  Tutto per colpa di quel "to"...
> 
> Ho sempre pensato che il mio principale avversario (o il mio più acerrimo nemico) fosse più alto e più tonico... be', non proprio così schizzato.
> 
> Something along those lines... what do you think?


In think this must be the most possible solution, in fact the teen has definitely the habit to misspell words, I guess Uinni is right and consequently Silvia gave me the hint...
Thank you all friends, I hope to can help you in the future with same precision.
Vittorio


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## lsp

carrickp said:
			
		

> This re-emphasizes a point that has arisen here before: Italian is MUCH more punctilious about usages like this than English is. In conversational English (as ElaineG points out) this by no means stands out as an incorrect usage -- and one criticizing it as such in AE, at least, would be considered very academic. In Italian, on the other hand, for Uinni it stands out like a sore thumb. Well, if all languages were alike, we would not need forums such as this.


My turn to compliment you - your post is perspicacious (thanks for giving me an excellent opportunity to use that word ).


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## lsp

Silvia said:
			
		

> Ho sempre pensato che il mio principale avversario (o il mio più acerrimo nemico) fosse più alto e più tonico... Something along those lines... what do you think?


I always thought [he] would be... shouldn't _fosse_ be _sarebbe stato_?


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## DareRyan

Fruitcake in this context is not a measure of ones mental stability rather a person's masculinity. A fruitcake is slang for a homo-sexual or someone unsecure in his masculinity. It almost always applies to a male. I've never heard it used otherwise.


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## ElaineG

*Ryan*, that's just not the case.  "Fruitcake" means (per one dictionary)  crackpot, crank, nut, nut case, nutcase,screwball (a whimsically eccentric person).  Back in my grandmother's day, "fruit" or "fruity" were sometimes used to describe homosexuals, and I suppose fruitcake can be used that way too, but that's not the primary connotation.


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## Silvia

Lsp, you're right.

Ryan and Elaine, thanks for your clarification. I think we can find a compromise to mean both in Italian too 

I can only think of frou-frou right now, but I don't think it's suitable.


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## Don Zauker

Vittorio52 said:
			
		

> can anynoe help me on this sentence?
> 
> " I always tought my arch-nemesis would to be taller, buffer, and well, not so much of a fruitcake"
> Context : a teen and his rock band have been excluded by a rock competition, the winners off course show off and send them away (the situation is very funny...)
> Thanks in advance
> VIttorio


Hello folk ,
my Forbidden American dictionary states two meanings for Fruitcake (both have been already proposed in this topic):
1) Silly-Acting person
2) Male Homosexual

As you may see, the phrase to be translated point out the phisical quality of this "arch-nemesis" so my opinion is that the secondary meaning is the intended one, that I'd translate with "checca"  (note: it is a crude, derogatory noun similar to fag).

As per "arch-nemesis", I think this young man is talkng of an opposing rival exaggerating his state in a tipical youngster fashion.

So my personal translation would be:
"Ho sempre prensato che il mio Grande Rivale sarebbe stato più alto, più forte e, beh, non una checca  del genere"

Note: Upper case in "Grande Rivale" is intended to enphatize the statement and reproduce the arch-nemesis exaggeration effect.


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## Silvia

Don Zauker, capisco il tuo percorso logico... funziona anche. Ma, checca per fruitcake non è un po' forte?


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## Don Zauker

Silvia said:
			
		

> Don Zauker, capisco il tuo percorso logico... funziona anche. Ma, checca per fruitcake non è un po' forte?


Dipende molto dal tono, dal sentire delle persone e dalla situazione, secondo me.

Se dovessi tradurre un passo di un libro, lo userei ma non lo userei in pubblico per tradurre una frase ad altre persone, a meno di non essere fra amici.

In generale, penso che Faggot   e Fruitcake  siano sinonimi anche nel tono magari con una sfumatura più "addolcita" e meno aggressiva per il secondo termine.

In italiano li tradurrei rispettivamente con Finocchio  e Checca  (anche se, tristemente, i sinonimi per queste due parole non mancano).


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## carrickp

As for me, I would have thought "fruitcake" meant the other definition ("nut") in this context -- but it is definitely ambiguous. No doubt if one had the complete text further descriptions of the person would make the choice obvious -- and I suppose the point should be that without the context it is _not possible_ in English to tell which definition is correct here. I think "Grande Rivale" for "arch-nemesis" is a good choice.


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## lsp

I'm influenced by the comparison to physical strength, and wouldn't have searched my brain for a literal dictionary defifnition of fruitcake if I heard this in English outside WR. I understand it to mean a less macho (maybe therefore effeminate), wimpy, physically unthreatening person surprisingly bested him, when it should have been - in his opinion - only possible with a hunkier, more imposing sort.


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## carrickp

lsp said:
			
		

> I'm influenced by the comparison to physical strength, and wouldn't have searched my brain for a literal dictionary defifnition of fruitcake if I heard this in English outside WR. I understand it to mean a less macho (maybe therefore effeminate), wimpy, physically unthreatening person surprisingly bested him, when it should have been - in his opinion - only possible with a hunkier, more imposing sort.



Well, this makes a lot of sense. Again, the entire context is needed to say for certain. We're basically trying to read the Dead Sea Scrolls from a fragment of parchment here.


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## curon

or maybe just sarebbe
sarebbe stato = would have been (although this makes sense in this context too)


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## lsp

curon said:
			
		

> or maybe just sarebbe...


I don't think so...that's why I asked and Silvia confirmed.


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## curon

Sorry ISP.
Must have missed that in the thread somewhere...


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## Don Zauker

In fact, I was reconsidering my translation and now I think that a better choice would have been:

"Ho sempre prensato che il mio Grande Rivale _sarebbe dovuto essere _più alto, più forte e, beh, non una checca  del genere"


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## Silvia

...sarebbe stato...


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## Don Zauker

Silvia said:
			
		

> ...sarebbe stato...


This is the correct litteral translation but I feel the second translation I proposed a better way to put it in Italian.


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## uinni

Don Zauker said:
			
		

> In fact, I was reconsidering my translation and now I think that a better choice would have been:
> 
> "Ho sempre prensato che il mio Grande Rivale _sarebbe dovuto essere _più alto, più forte e, beh, non una checca  del genere"


 
Grande Rivale sounds strange.

I propose:

Ho sempre pensato che il mio antagonista (to literary? ) sarebbe stato più alto, più forte e non un frocetto  del genere...

But I guess that now Vittorio is able to master his language wizardries... 

Uinni


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