# There are situations where it's hard to know when to use it or not.



## yuechu

大家好！

I was thinking of how to translate the following into Chinese: "The subjunctive in French is complicated sometimes; there are situations where it's hard to know when to use it or not."
Would anyone know how to translate it?
Thanks!


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## SimonTsai

法語的假設語氣，規則有時很複雜；在某些情況，該不該用並不是那麼地好判斷。


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## yuechu

Thanks, Simon!


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## hx1997

yuechu said:


> The subjunctive


In mainland, this is usually translated as 虚拟语气.


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## yuechu

Good to know! Thanks, Hx1997!

How about: "在某些情况(下？），该不该用很难知道"? It sounds 别扭, I imagine, right?


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## bohe_panda

yuechu said:


> Good to know! Thanks, Hx1997!
> 
> How about: "在某些情况(下？），该不该用很难知道"? It sounds 别扭, I imagine, right?


“很难知道该不该用/要不要用” sounds more natural,i think.


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## T.D

The subjunctive in French is complicated* sometimes; there are situations* where it's hard to know when to use it or not.

Here "sometimes" and "there are situations“ mean the same thing, so you can omit one.
法语的虚拟语气很复杂，很难分辨何时该用何时不该用。


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## Skatinginbc

T.D said:


> Here "sometimes" and "there are situations“ mean the same thing, so you can omit one.


Good point!


T.D said:


> 法语的虚拟语气很复杂，很难分辨何时该用何时不该用。



法语的虚拟语气很复杂 The subjunctive in French is complicated
很难分辨何时该用何时不该用。it's hard to know when to use it or not.
法语的虚拟语气很复杂，很难分辨何时该用何时不该用。The subjunctive in French is complicated.  It's hard to know when to use it or not. ==> You didn't merely omit one of them.  You omitted both.


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## T.D

Skatinginbc said:


> You omitted both.


Well technically I omit the first, and split the second
在哪种情况下 = 在哪些时候 = 何时...何时...

And it just occurred to me, 何时该用 also means the same as 何时不该用, so it can be further simplified to just 法语的虚拟语气很复杂，很难分辨什么时候该用。or 法语的虚拟语气有时很复杂，不知道什么时候该用。


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## SimonTsai

yuechu said:


> "[...] 该不该用很难知道"? It sounds 别扭, I imagine, right?


It works, but I personally much prefer my original, which is a roundabout way of saying the same thing. (I guess that sometimes, I am quite into understatement, which makes you apparently sophisticated or considerate.)


T.D said:


> 在哪种情况下 = 在哪些时候 = 何时...何时...


The structure '何時... 何時...' corresponds to 'when to use it or not'; it does not have anything to do with 'there are situations', and in fact, there are situations where it is clear.


> Here "sometimes" and "there are situations“ mean the same thing, so you can omit one.


They do mean the same thing, but there's nothing wrong with the repetition. The first part (preceding the semicolon) gives the opinion, and the second explains. If we were to remove 'sometimes', then I would expect an auxiliary 'can' helping the linking verb 'be' rather than the normal simple present 'is' before 'complicated', which fails to convey something.


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## ovaltine888

T.D said:


> Well technically I omit the first, and split the second
> 在哪种情况下 = 在哪些时候 = 何时...何时...
> 
> And it just occurred to me, 何时该用 also means the same as 何时不该用, so it can be further simplified to just 法语的虚拟语气很复杂，很难分辨什么时候该用。or 法语的虚拟语气有时很复杂，不知道什么时候该用。


我喜欢你这个版本
我也同意，“不知道何时改用”已经包含了“不知道何时不该用”，所以正常的表达通常不会直译英语“when to use it or not”，否则显得很啰嗦。


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> You didn't merely omit one of them.  You omitted both.





yuechu said:


> "The subjunctive in French is complicated *sometimes*; *there are situations where* it's hard to know *when* to use it *or not*."


I'm not qualified to doubt this but I often feel yuechu's sentences were overly complicated and clunky...
Do we really need so many words for uncertainty...?
I agree with Simon in another thread:


SimonTsai said:


> ong. We are much more verbal than we imagine, and often we simply love using more words than needed.


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## yuechu

SuperXW said:


> I'm not qualified to doubt this but I often feel yuechu's sentences were overly complicated and clunky...


This is possible! I am perhaps used to French, which tends to be even more verbose than English... (whereas Chinese is more succinct!)


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## T.D

ovaltine888 said:


> 正常的表达通常不会直译英语“when to use it or not”，否则显得很啰嗦。


我感觉中文里这种表达更常出现在严肃/正式的场合。不过一般场景下似乎也不是unacceptably啰嗦，因为很多时候选项并不一定是非黑即白。（所以我在#9说的是can be simplified，不是should or have to）

谁是我们的敌人，谁是我们的朋友。（也有的人既不是敌人也不是朋友）
哪些事情该做，哪些事情不该做。（也有的事情做不做都无伤大雅）
虚拟语气什么时候该用，什么时候不该用（也有的时候用不用都无所谓）

大概是这种感觉。


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