# cour des miracles



## kfusil3

Toute une cour des miracles grouille sur le chemin de Shalimar Biscuits.

= 

All a courtyard of the miracles swarm on the path of Shalimar Biscuits.

This translation does not make sense to me. Help please!

Moderator note: two threads on the expression_ cour des miracles_ have been merged.


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## arundhati

In the past, "La cour des miracles" was the place in Paris were the tramps and thieves and disabled people got together and somewhat lived. Thus, it refers to a group of people of that kind.


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## carog

To be more precise, it was a place where the poor, the blind, the disabled would gather during the day to beg and as by magic (miracle) in the night they would walk, see etc ....again.


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## kfusil3

Ah i see. thanks so much for the help! it makes perfect sense now.


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## arundhati

D'après Wiki, c'est plutôt le lieu où ils se rassemblaient la nuit : durant le jour, ils mendiaient dans les rues passantes.


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## carog

arundhati said:


> D'après Wiki, c'est plutôt le lieu où ils se rassemblaient la nuit : durant le jour, ils mendiaient dans les rues passantes.


 
You are right! Autant pour moi


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## ArthorInParis

Hello,

I would like to be sure that this text is translated in good English as it is very interesting. "Jadis sorte de Palais-Royal, ce n'est pas *cour des miracles* réceptacles des misères et des vices (...). Les habitants et les passants ont transformé les terrains en latrines pubiques, en petits cloaques de quartier.  Dans bien des endroits, le sol est tellment recovert de matières féçales qu'il n'est plus visible."
“Yesterday, leaving the Palais-Royal, this is not more than a course in miracles,  receptacles from misery and vices (…).  The inhabitants and pedestrians have transformed the ground into public toilets, in little quarter cesspits.  Really in these areas, the earth is so covered with feces matter that it is no longer visible.”
THANKS!


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## JiPiJou

I believe there have already been threads on "Cour des miracles".

These places were areas in large cities where beggars, thieves and other sorts lived. It was thus called because those who begged in the streets by day because they were blind or had lost their legs or had other ailments suddenly became strong and healthy when they returned at night to their dens... a real miracle !

So it is not "un cours" (a course), it is "une cour" (a courtyard, a square, a district).

Are you sure there is not a missing word in "ce n'est pas cour des miracles réceptacles" ? The sentence sounds very odd.


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## ArthorInParis

Sorry for the delay. I didn't check my threads.
"Jadis, sorte de Palais-Royal, ce n'est plus que cour des miracles, réceptacle des misères et des vices (...).


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## JiPiJou

*Now, this makes sense :*

 "Formerly a sort of royal palace, it has now become no more than a "Cour des miracles",..."

The "Palais Royal" mentioned here was built by Cardinal de Richelieu and, at his death, became the palace of Louis XIII and of young Louis XIV who later moved just south to Palais du Louvre along the Seine and finally, of course, to Versailles. The district then became dilapidated and occupied by vagrants, thieves and prostitutes. It was only one of several "Cours des miracles" in Paris.

For those who know Paris, it was where the Square du Palais-Royal is now (with, in its middle, the famous -- some say infamous -- modern Van Buren columns). The present building is occupied by the Ministry of Culture, the Conseil d'Etat (administrative tribunal) and, on the side, by the Comédie Française.


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## ArthorInParis

Thank you so much, that makes a big difference. What is culturally interesting is that Cours des Miracles is not what an English speaking person would automatically assume.
And thank you for the added history. My research and writing in French history, culture and more important the behavior is so enriching. I really really enjoy 'today' because I understand 'yesterday'.
Thank you once again for your help and your added history!! I really appreciate it!


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## JiPiJou

Thanks   Happy to help.

But remember, it is "la cour.." (no "s") . If I put an "s" in my latests post, it is beacuse I used it in the plural « *several *"cour*s"* » ..."

Actually, I have asked the moderators to change the title of your thread to make that point clear for future viewers and for proper filing.


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## xiancee

Hello again 
So in conclusion it is useless to try and tranlate it ? It will remain the 'cour des miracles' after all!


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## JiPiJou

Looking back on the posts, I see one of the earlier entries referred to Shalimar biscuits (which sounds a bit odd !). Nevertheless the other posts have clearly explained what the “cour des miracles” was in mediaeval Paris (and _*carog *_has clearly given the reason why the word “miracle” is being used), and that image can easily be transposed, whatever the context.

As for the translation, it is always difficult to know whether a typical phrase should be translated or left in its original language. I suppose much depends on the type of document in which it is to be used (literary or not) and on the hypothetical culture of the public who is likely to read it.

I will simply add that in the musical “Notre-Dame de Paris” (1998), loosely based on Victor Hugos’s novel, there is a song titled “La cour des miracles” (as shown on Youtube). The English version of the lyrics uses the phrase “The court of the miracles”.

La Cour Des Miracles Lyrics - Ost (French lyrics)


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## nemerle

When I ask WR to translate "cours des miracles", it provides "bedlam".

Is it really correct?

I'm looking for a translation in a job context ("ce département des ventes ressemble plus à une cours des miracles qu'à autre chose)...

Merci à vous


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## djweaverbeaver

nemerle said:


> When I ask WR to translate "cours des miracles", it provides "bedlam".
> 
> Is it really correct?
> 
> I'm looking for a translation in a job context ("ce département des ventes ressemble plus à une cours des miracles qu'à autre chose)...
> 
> Merci à vous



Hi, I think it depends on what la Cour des Miracles means in this context.  If it's "un repaire de mendiants et de voleurs", then we have the expression _*den of thieves*_, biblical in origin.  If it's "un lieu mal famé ou sordide" , then maybe *rat's nest, slum,* or *dump *may work.  I don't know I might be able to come up with better suggestions if I knew what was meant exactly by this expression.

*As a side note, in Victor Hugo's _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_, the term often remains untranslated: the Cour des Miracles.


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## Prisca22

Hi all you geniuses out there, 

I'm resuscitating this post because I have this sentence with la cour des miracles:

"On a bien fait d’être pistonnés : il y a un monde là-dedans... c’est la cour des miracles." The context is that they're in a clinic in St. Denis to the north of Paris. 
It's a good thing we have a recommendation: the place is jam-packed and it's a cour des miracles. 
Couldn't we say something like it's skid row, for instance, to describe the scene? Further context is that St. Denis is a poor area with a lot of immigrants.


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## catheng06

if shid row means it's a place where you meet "weird" people ranging from homeless, disabled, beggars and drunken ones ...... then , yes ...


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## Prisca22

Wikipedia says: "A *skid row* or *skid road* is an impoverished area, typically urban, inhabited by the poor, the homeless, or others considered disreputable or forgotten by society. A skid row may be anything from an impoverished urban district to a red-light district to a gathering area for the homeless. In general _skid row_ areas are inhabited or frequented by individuals marginalized by poverty or through drug addiction. Urban areas considered skid rows often feature cheap taverns, dilapidated buildings, and drug dens as well as other features of urban blight."
Now that you have the definition, do you think it works?


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## Itisi

Re 'Bedlam' at #15:
_"P_opular name for the Hospital of St. Mary of Bethlehem, London, an asylum for the mentally ill, from Middle English _Bedlem_ Bethlehem.  (First Known Use: 1522)
Definition: a very noisy and confused state or scene."


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## Prisca22

Hmmm, Bedlam... could work. "It's a good thing we have a recommendation: the place is jam-packed and it's bedlam."
Any other ideas out there?


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## JiPiJou

Just a thought. You say that the scene takes place in a *clinic*. So the reference may not be so much to poor, homeless people as to a long line of sick people in a doctor's waiting-room. As was mentioned earlier in the post, the origin of the phrase « cour des miracles » is that those who begged in the Paris streets by day because they were blind or had lost their legs or had repulsive skin diseases suddenly recovered their sight and limbs and healthy skin when they returned at night to their dens... a real miracle !

So, by being « pistonnés », may-be the protagonists in your story had the opportunity of jumping the queue of people waiting to see the doctor. If so, « skid row » would not fit nor « bedlam », in spite of its original medical meaning, because there may not have been any mayhem, confusion or noise but simply a depressing line of ailing people.

I may be wrong. Only the context can say if that is the case and thus allow to choose the proper translation.


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## Itisi

JiPiJou said:


> there may not have been any mayhem, confusion or noise but simply a depressing line of ailing people.


Yes, you may well be right!


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## Prisca22

@JiPiJou. You are very right. The reference is to a crowd of sick people in what I imagine is the ER of this big cardiology clinic. They're not standing on line, but probably were given numbered tickets and are sitting around waiting to be called. They aren't homeless, but are a reflection of the poor, immigrant population of the surrounding area, where French is hardly spoken, sometimes not even much understood. 
Thank you for shedding light on the miracle side of the expression. I now understand why it's called like that. 
The scene isn't a cour des miracles either. And you're right about their being happy to have been pistonnés to avoid having to sit around waiting endlessly. 
So it's not skid row or bedlam. In French you could say it's a souk. But I'm not sure that would translate well...


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## Itisi

'people look in a sad and sorry state' - best I can think of...


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## Prisca22

It's a good thing we have a recommendation: the place is jam-packed with people in a sad and sorry state. How's that?


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## Itisi

Sounds ok to me...


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## wildan1

Prisca22 said:


> They aren't homeless, but are a reflection of the poor, immigrant population of the surrounding area, where French is hardly spoken, sometimes not even much understood.
> In French you could say it's a souk.


And in English we could say _It's a zoo. _It's not specific to any type of person or setting except to say that it is chaotic and not pleasant to be in.


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## Prisca22

Oh, I like the zoo. I think it fits perfectly. Thanks all of you for your input. Greatly appreciated as always.


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## Itisi

Personally, I don't find 'a zoo' very respectful.  (But I wasn't there to check it out...)


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## wildan1

Perhaps BE interprets it too literally? In AE it is really a common way of saying things are in a crazy, chaotic state. No intended (or interpreted) implication that the people are animals.


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## Itisi

Yes, *wildan*, I understand it as you do, and I would use it speaking about unruly schoolchildren, for example, but in this context, somehow, it doesn't sit well with me... Perhaps it's just me...


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