# Welsh: Mutation of emphatic adjective complements referring to feminine subjects?



## Curt Jugg

@Welsh_Sion, @Tegs

When a sentence in Welsh begins with an adjective referring to a feminine subject, am I right that the adjective does not suffer mutation? I ask because I came across the sentence "Glas oedd y ffrog", which I had expected would be "Las oedd y ffrog" because "ffrog" is feminine. However, as I had found that sentence in "Gramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes", which Welsh_Sion had warned me was unreliable, I looked further and found the sentence"Pert yw hi, on'd ife?" in a Reddit website dealing with tags in Welsh. Again a feminine subject but an unmutated adjective complement. So is it in fact the case that adjectives in this position are properly left unmutated?
Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Tegs

Curt Jugg said:


> When a sentence in Welsh begins with an adjective referring to a feminine subject, am I right that the adjective does not suffer mutation?


Yes, that's right. "Merch _f_ach", but "_B_ach yw'r ferch".


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## Welsh_Sion

Tegs said:


> Yes, that's right. "Merch _f_ach", but "_B_ach yw'r ferch".



Just to follow up on this, we Northerners (or perhaps even more limited, north-westerners in my case), don't always softly mutate *'bach' *after a fem. sing. noun. It may be considered non-standard, but I think it's a fact of life for many of us.

Note the place names *Eglwysbach (Conwy)* and* Eglwysfach (Ceredigion).*

@Tegs and her ilk are more standardised - at least in this field!


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## Curt Jugg

@Tegs, @Welsh_Sion

Thanks, both. Wouldn't it be helpful to us learners if some grammarian would include that information in a grammar meant for learners? Or perhaps they have, and I've missed it.😉


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## Tegs

It's probably in some book somewhere!


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## Curt Jugg

Probably!🤔


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## analeeh

Curt Jugg said:


> @Welsh_Sion, @Tegs
> 
> When a sentence in Welsh begins with an adjective referring to a feminine subject, am I right that the adjective does not suffer mutation? I ask because I came across the sentence "Glas oedd y ffrog", which I had expected would be "Las oedd y ffrog" because "ffrog" is feminine. However, as I had found that sentence in "Gramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes", which Welsh_Sion had warned me was unreliable, I looked further and found the sentence"Pert yw hi, on'd ife?" in a Reddit website dealing with tags in Welsh. Again a feminine subject but an unmutated adjective complement. So is it in fact the case that adjectives in this position are properly left unmutated?
> Thanks in advance for any advice.


I'm not sure what Gramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes says on this subject, but the soft mutation is not just gender marking. A feminine noun typically triggers mutation on following adjectives, but the reason that an adjective in a sentence like _mae'r ferch yn fach _is mutated is the presence of _yn_, not the gender of the noun it's referring to (thus e.g. _mae'r bachgen yn fach_). It's only attributive adjectives the gender agreement applies to, not predicative ones.


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## Welsh_Sion

Indeed, we can extend this further and say that after _yn_ the adjective will softly mutate (providing it doesn't begin with <ll> or <rh>) and that it will be in the (unmarked) masculine form.

Mae'r ffrog (fem.) yn las
Mae'r crys (masc.) yn las

Mae'r ffrog yn wyn
Mae'r ffrog yn wen
Mae'r crys yn wyn


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## Curt Jugg

Thanks for that, both


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