# Just In Time



## RhoKappa

This expression refers to perfect timing, especially when an act was needed at that time.  Here are some examples.

1. Sergei and Lena bought the air conditioner just in time for summer.
2. The children came home just in time for dinner.
3. The runners finished the race just in time.

Google translates "just in time" as как раз вовремя, but when I enter "just in time for summer," it translates to как раз к лету, so I am not sure what the correct translation is, and when to use как раз к (dative?).  Как сказать по-русски?


----------



## Awwal12

Google is basically right: usually it will be "как ра́з во́время" without specifying arguments and "как ра́з к чему́-л." if the arguments are present (adding both, "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible).

Some other options are possible (like "аккура́т к чему́-л.").


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> (adding both, "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible).


Google wouldn't agree with you.  

"вовремя к" - Google Search

"как раз вовремя к" - Google Search


----------



## Awwal12

Vadim K said:


> Google wouldn't agree with you.
> 
> "вовремя к" - Google Search
> 
> "как раз вовремя к" - Google Search


You may notice that "к" in the absolute majority of these cases (of the latter group, of course; most from the former are entirely irrelevant, since "вовремя" and "к кому-л./чему-л." aren't directly related there) belong to some isolated part of the sentence (which is separated by a comma, by a dash etc.).


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> since "вовремя" and "к кому-л./чему-л." aren't directly related there


Could you please clarify a little bit this point? Not sure that I understand what it means "_aren't directly related there_".



Awwal12 said:


> You may notice that "к" in the absolute majority of these cases belong to some isolated part of the sentence (which is separated by a comma, by a dash etc.).


You are right, I have noticed it. However, I have also noticed that some links on the first page of the search engine results lead to the books which have been written by the professional writers, for example, this link Комната страха or this one Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина. So I think that at least we shouldn't say that  "_adding both, "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible". _


----------



## Maroseika

Vadim K said:


> I have also noticed that some links on the first page of the search engine results lead to the books which have been written by the professional writers, for example, this link Комната страха or this one Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина. So I think that at least we shouldn't say that  "_adding both, "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible". _


I also think *вовремя к чему-либо* is wrong (if considered as single contsruction).

For example, here, a comma seems to be missed:
_Зато успела как раз вовремя, к моменту знакомства Макса и бабушек._
Вовремя and к моменту знакомства are equal modifiers of time.

And here, "к забору сада" relates to поспели and doesn't relate to "вовремя", and it can be easily moved in the sentence:
_Обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада.
К забору сада обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя.
Обе девушки поспели к забору сада как раз вовремя._


----------



## Awwal12

Vadim K said:


> or this one Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина


[Поспели [вовремя] [к забору сада]] is not [Поспели [вовремя [к забору сада]]]. "К забору сада" here has a SPATIAL meaning, to begin with, and is entirely unrelated to "вовремя". (Cross-posted.)


Vadim K said:


> this link Комната страха


Historically "professional writers" always had to rely on professional editors and correctors. Now they mostly rely on Microsoft Word, which has such unfortunate  results.

P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.


----------



## Vadim K

Maroseika said:


> I also think *вовремя к чему-либо* is wrong (if considered as single contsruction).



It can't be a single construction. "_Вовремя_" is an adverb which relates to the verb and modifies it. "_К чему-либо_" is an indirect object which also relates to the same verb. There is no any relation between the adverb and the indirect object. Сould you please advise to me an example in Russian where an adverb and an indirect object form a single construction?



Maroseika said:


> And here, "к забору сада" relates to поспели and doesn't relate to "вовремя", and it can be easily moved in the sentence:
> _Обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада.
> К забору сада обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя.
> Обе девушки поспели к забору сада как раз вовремя._



Yes, you are right. "_К забору сада_" relates to the verb "_поспели_" and not to the adverb "_вовремя_". But as far as I know any indirect object (the same as a direct one) relates to the verb and not to the adverb which just modifies this verb. For example,
_Парень шел быстро к станции
К станции парень шел быстро
Парень к станции шел быстро_
Here the indirect object "_к станции_" also relates to the verb "_шел_" and not to the adverb "_быстро_". But nevertheless for the moment I can't see the connection beetween the fact that the indirect object always relates to the verb and your suggestion that the phrase "_(как раз) вовремя к чему-либо_" is wrong.


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> "К забору сада" here has a SPATIAL meaning, to begin with, and is entirely unrelated to "вовремя".



Does it mean that the phrase "_Он пришел вовремя на стройплощадку_" is also wrong, because "_на стройплощадку_" has a SPATIAL meaning, and "_вовремя_" doesn't have this meaning?



Awwal12 said:


> P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.



Ok. I am not a linguist. I would only like to say that for an ordinary person like me, the phrase "(_как раз) вовремя к чему-либо_" doesn't sound weird at all.


----------



## Awwal12

Vadim K said:


> Does it mean that the phrase "_Он пришел вовремя на стройплощадку_" is also wrong, because "_на стройплощадку_" has a SPATIAL meaning, and "_вовремя_" doesn't have this meaning?


You're losing the point. "Вовремя на стройплощадку" is not a phrase at all, it's two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal and one spatial, both independently modifying some verb (hence there can be no restrictions on their co-occurence). "Как раз вовремя к обеду" IS a phrase (it must be). Which is illiterate and barely grammatical, as a matter of fact.


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.



Ok. I am not a linguist. I would only like to say that for an ordinary person like me, the phrase "_как раз вовремя к чему-либо_" doesn't sound weird at all.


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> You're losing the point. "Вовремя на стройплощадку" is not a phrase at all, it's two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal and one spatial, both independently modifying some verb (hence there can be no restrictions on their co-occurence). "Как раз вовремя к обеду" IS a phrase (it must be). Which is illiterate and barely grammatical, as a matter of fact.



Ok. Then what is the difference between "_вовремя на стройплощадку_" и "_вовремя к забору сада_" if both of them are not phrases  and both of them are two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal (_вовремя_) and one spatial (_на стройплощадку/к забору сада_)?


----------



## Awwal12

Vadim K said:


> Then what is the difference between "_вовремя на стройплощадку_" и "_вовремя к забору сада_"


 None at all. And?....


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> None at all. And?....





Awwal12 said:


> (adding both, "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible).



And then why is "_вовремя на стройплощадку_" possible, but "_вовремя к обеду (к чему-либо)"_ impossible?


----------



## Awwal12

Because "*как раз вовремя к обеду"   is "*как раз вовремя к моменту начала обеда" , obviously.
By the way, "вовремя" and "как раз вовремя" aren't exactly interchangeable.


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> Because "*как раз вовремя к обеду"   is "*как раз вовремя к моменту начала обеда" , obviously.
> By the way, "вовремя" and "как раз вовремя" aren't exactly interchangeable.



Ok. Then what about "_вовремя к забору сада_"?


----------



## Maroseika

Vadim K said:


> Ok. Then what about "_вовремя к забору сада_"?


Thry are equal modifiers (of time and place):
Поспели (когда?) вовремя (куда?) к забору сада.
Cf.:
Поспели вовремя к открытию. 
Поспели вовремя, к открытию.  (вовремя and к открытию refer to one the same moment).


----------



## Vadim K

Maroseika said:


> Thry are equal modifiers (of time and place):
> Поспели (когда?) вовремя (куда?) к забору сада.
> Cf.:
> Поспели вовремя к открытию.
> Поспели вовремя, к открытию.  (вовремя and к открытию refer to one the same moment).



I think there is some misunderstanding here. The starting point for the discussion was the following phrase:


Awwal12 said:


> "во́время к чему́-л."  , is impossible).


But the phrase "_поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада_" that we can see in the link Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина totally fits the construction "_вовремя к чему-либо_". And I can't see any difference between the phrase "_поспели вовремя к забору сада_" and "_поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада_". Maybe Awwal12 has meant that the phrase "_вовремя* к какому-либо событию*_" was impossible without segregation by a comma or by a dash? I would agree with that. But as I could understand from his explanation, he suggested that the phrase "_поспели вовремя к забору сада_" is also unacceptable.


Awwal12 said:


> P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.


So I wonder why the phrase "_Он пришел (как раз) вовремя на стройплощадку_" is acceptable and the phrase "_Она поспела (как раз) вовремя к забору сада_" is unacceptable?


----------



## Maroseika

Vadim K said:


> I think there is some misunderstanding here. The starting point for the discussion was the following phrase:
> 
> But the phrase "_поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада_" that we can see in the link Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина totally fits the construction "_вовремя к чему-либо_". And I can't see any difference between the phrase "_поспели вовремя к забору сада_" and "_поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада_".


The difference seems to me very clear: in one single construction к чему-нибудь cannot refer to the same moment of time that with вовремя. Summer and dinner in the initial post mean moments of time, and к забору is a place.

So успеть вовремя к обеду and успеть как раз вовремя к обеду are wrong.


----------



## Awwal12

Maroseika said:


> успеть вовремя к обеду and успеть как раз вовремя к обеду are wrong.


I must admit that the first variant sounds more acceptable to me. Some more research is required.


----------



## Vadim K

Maroseika said:


> Summer and dinner in the initial post mean moments of time, and к забору is a place.



Ok. But "_summer_" and "_dinner_" in the initial post are just two examples. You can also do something "_just in time_" to some place. For example, "_The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufacter_".


----------



## Awwal12

Vadim K said:


> Ok. But "_summer_" and "_dinner_" in the initial post are just two examples. You can also do something "_just in time_" to some place. For example, "_The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufacter_".


You are missing the structure, I am afraid. If the children came home just in time for dinner, it cannot be reduced to "the children came home for dinner" without considerable changes in the meaning.


----------



## Vadim K

Awwal12 said:


> You are missing the structure, I am afraid. If the children came home just in time for dinner, it cannot be reduced to "the children came home for dinner" without considerable changes in the meaning.



Ok. Does it mean that the sentence "_The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufactuer_" can be reduced to "_The spare parts have been supplied to the automobile manufacter_" without considerable changes in the meaning?


----------



## Awwal12

Yes. It will only leave the destination unspecified.


----------



## Okkervil

Сергей и Лена могли купить кондиционер "как раз к лету", а могли и "успеть купить его к лету".  Дети могли вернуться домой "как раз к обеду", а могли и "чуть не опоздать к обеду". Третий пример еще более двусмысленен.

Сам вопрос поставлен некорректно. Топикстартер. как обычно, не дал контекста к каждому из своих примеров, собственных попыток перевода не привел. В наличии лишь удивление, что транслятор меняет перевод, когда тот изменяет исходный текст. Чудно, однако.


----------

