# Why is it "novus orsa" and not "nova orsa"?



## Cruentus

Hi everybody,

I learned Latin many years ago in grammar school and am puzzled by the following: why is it "novus orsa" (new beginnings) rather than "nova orsa"? "Orsa" is supposed to be neuter plural so I would expect "nova orsa". Thanks for your help!
Regards,

Cruentus


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## J.F. de TROYES

It looks strange to me too. Are you sure that both words are grammatically linked together ? Could you give some context ?


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## Cruentus

I am glad I am not the only one!  I did not find it in a context, just as an expression for "new beginnings". "novus orsa" yields 90,000 results in Google, while "nova orsa" only yields 310. Here is the word "orsa" together with a different adjective ending at -us: "nunc nostra serenus orsa iuves, haec ut Latias vox impleat urbes." (from C. Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica, book 1, card 1 (ed. Otto Kramer)) Hope that helps!


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## djmc

I think you are taking the serenus as qualifying orsa. Orsa as is nostra are ablative. Serenus is qualifying the understood <tu>. It would mean *now serene, you will benefit from our beginnings*. Latin word order is not fixed and can vary for reasons of emphasis, scansion, euphony etcetera.


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## Scholiast

Greetings

Cruentus' quotation from Val. Flacc. (in his # 3), and the references in L&S (three to Virg. _Aen._), almost certainly provide the explanation. In "nunc nostra serenus orsa iuves..." _nostra_ agrees with and describes _orsa_ ("our undertakings...", "the actions we have begun"), while _serenus_ is in implicit agreement with the subject of _iuves_ -  "now may you (please) calmly assist our undertakings, so that this news may reach the cities of Latium".

I have no idea whence Google has "found" _novus orsa_, but as regular readers of this forum are all too well aware, Google's language-"services" are frequently inaccurate and not to be relied upon.

[Apologies for cross-posting with djmc - whose explanation of the syntax of _serenus_ is the same as mine, but who has (with the greatest respect) misunderstood the sense of _iuves_. Moreover, _nostra...orsa_ is not ablative, but acc. plur.]


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## Cruentus

Hi,

Thanks all for your help with my very rusty knowledge of the Latin language! So "nova orsa" would be correct to describe "new beginnings"? Just to clarify that Google did not carry out any translation in this case, but rather found 90,000 pages on the internet where "novus orsa" was used rather than "nova orsa", which only yielded 310 pages.
Regards,

Cruentus


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## Scholiast

Curiouser and curiouser:

I have just run my own Google check, and find some 60,000 recorded instances of "novus orsa", but over 5,000,000 of "nova orsa".

Since (at first glance) the instances of _novus orsa_ appear to emanate from video-games and/or eccentric cults, my conjecture is that the phrase has been coined by some ill-educated individual who has simply used an English-Latin dictionary (or, worse, online resource) to "translate" the English "New Beginnings", but without apprehending the inflectional solecism.

This suspicion is reinforced (though of course far from proven) by the fact that Latin naturally tends to place adjectives after the nouns they qualify - and by the fact that _orsa_ (a rare enough noun anyway) would hardly come to light anyway unless mentioned or quoted by a "proper" classicist, who would know that _novus_ cannot agree with it; or else by someone who has lazily and ignorantly looked up "Beginning[s]" in such a source of reference.

Finally, the fact that no immediate literary pedigree or context for the phrase in classical Latin has occurred to the (already many) viewers of this thread, some of whom are considerable experts, tells its own story.


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## Cruentus

Hi Scholiast,

The difference in our Google search results is due to the fact that I have searched for the exact word combination "novus orsa" and "nova orsa" (you can do this by placing the word combination between quotation marks) where as it seems your search was for pages that contained the two words anywhere on the page, but not necessarily together.

In any case I think your analysis is right that the phrase was coined by someone who was not very familiar with the Latin language and then copied by others. Just goes to show how many people can be wrong. Thanks again for your assistance.

Kind regards,

Cruentus


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## relativamente

I suspect this is an abbreviation
 novus or(do) sa(eclorum)


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## Scholiast

Greetings once more

relativamente's contribution (# 9) reminds us of the inscription on the American Great Seal and some banknotes, "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM [_sic_]", where the classical _saeclorum_ has been contracted, according to some late mediaeval (i.e. "medieval") orthographic conventions.

The phrase, meaning roughly, "New World Order" owes its origins to Virgil's "Messianic" _Eclogue_, and made it an appropriate mantra for the Fathers of the US constitution.

So curiosity is yet further aroused. If this (NOVUS OR. SA.) is indeed the explanation of "novus orsa", why was the adjective not abbreviated as well (as for example one might find on coins - FID. DEF. &c.)?

It seems we must await explanation from learned American colleagues.


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