# National Language qualifications



## Tatzingo

Hello,

Apologies in advance if similar threads are around...

I'm just trying to get an idea of what sort of official language qualifications each country offers to foreigners learning that country's language.

For example, Spain offers non-hispanohablantes the DELE qualification (Diploma de Espanol Como Lengua Extranjera) and I've been told that this is the only spanish language qualification recognised by the equivalent of the Ministry of Education in Spain.

In the UK, we have the Cambridge set of exams, the KET, PET, Advanced, Profficiency...

What about other countries? In the US, Mexico, France, China, japan??

Tatz.


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## coconutpalm

Hi, we offer HSK to foreigne learners.
HSK is the abbreviation of the pinyin of hanyushuipingkaoshi(汉语水平考试）。


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## cuchuflete

There is no official language, at the federal/national level in the US.  Hence there is no official qualification.


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## maxiogee

There is no government approved scheme here, but I think that one can probably still get approved by a quango which ran a scheme in the 60s and 70s, the "fáinne" - a silver ring one wore in one's lapel to show proficiency in Irish.


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## vince

I heard that the European Union is trying to standardize all language tests so that there are three levels of proficiency, A, B, and C, or something like that. So eventually for European languages they will have the same types of tests.

In Hong Kong, do they actually test you on Cantonese? Or do they just test you on Chinese? I don't see how they can test on Cantonese because it doesn't have a standardized (as in book-codified) grammar. So a speaking/listening test would be all subjective. And wouldn't a written test just be a Chinese test, since HK people write in Standard Written Chinese, not Cantonese?


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## asm

I agree; however, for some needs TOEFL works as the standard. For foreign students coming into the US, this test is the most widely instrument to determine admission base on language proficiency.
When I became a US citizen the English "exam" was a requisite. The examination consisted in writing “John threw the ball” along with two other questions I don’t remember; the mentioned sentence was the most difficult part of the test!
 



			
				cuchuflete said:
			
		

> There is no official language, at the federal/national level in the US. Hence there is no official qualification.


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## Tatzingo

vince said:
			
		

> I heard that the European Union is trying to standardize all language tests so that there are three levels of proficiency, A, B, and C, or something like that. So eventually for European languages they will have the same types of tests.
> 
> In Hong Kong, do they actually test you on Cantonese? Or do they just test you on Chinese? I don't see how they can test on Cantonese because it doesn't have a standardized (as in book-codified) grammar. So a speaking/listening test would be all subjective. And wouldn't a written test just be a Chinese test, since HK people write in Standard Written Chinese, not Cantonese?



Vince,

There are already EU guidelines relating to the mutual recognition of qualifications but this is the first I've heard of standardising language tests. Interesting idea.. I'd certainly like to see if it works!

I'm not sure what the available language tests are but i would think that they don't test people on Cantonese if only because having been a British colony for so long, you can actually get by just speaking English. In any case, if there were a Cantonese language test, then i don't see why it wouldn't be able to be carried out. Cantonese is spoken by many people by geographically, it's kept to southern China and Hong Kong... I don't believe the lack of standardisation will pose a problem.

Written chinese idiogrammes are the same regardless of whether you are writing in Mandarin Chinese or Cantonese Chinese. I think simplified chinese is now the norm.

Tatz.


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## TimeHP

In Italy there are Celi 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There is also Celi 5 doc (for teachers).
In France there are Delf and Dalf.
Ciao


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## vince

Tatzingo said:
			
		

> Vince,
> 
> There are already EU guidelines relating to the mutual recognition of qualifications but this is the first I've heard of standardising language tests. Interesting idea.. I'd certainly like to see if it works!


Check out www.alte.org . Twenty-six European languages will have their tests standardized, including English, Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, and Italian.

According to its webpage:
*The principal objectives of ALTE are:*

                 - to establish common levels of proficiency in order to promote                   the transnational recognition of certification in Europe;
                - to establish common standards for all stages of the language-testing                   process: that is, for test development, task and item writing,                   test administration, marking and grading, reporting of test results,                   test analysis and reporting of findings;
                - to collaborate on joint projects and in the exchange of ideas                   and know-how. 

This webpage tells you the levels of proficiency (A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2): http://www.alte.org/can_do/general.cfm




			
				Tatzingo said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what the available language tests are but i would think that they don't test people on Cantonese if only because having been a British colony for so long, you can actually get by just speaking English. In any case, if there were a Cantonese language test, then i don't see why it wouldn't be able to be carried out. Cantonese is spoken by many people by geographically, it's kept to southern China and Hong Kong... I don't believe the lack of standardisation will pose a problem.
> 
> Written chinese idiogrammes are the same regardless of whether you are writing in Mandarin Chinese or Cantonese Chinese. I think simplified chinese is now the norm.
> 
> Tatz.


Read my post about Written Cantonese and its relation (or lack thereof) with Simplified vs. Traditional Chinese in this thread:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=157638


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## Brioche

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> There is no official language, at the federal/national level in the US. Hence there is no official qualification.


 
The United Kingdom does not have a defined official language. 
As is the case with the US, English is the de facto official language.


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## panjabigator

I believe India does have language tests available because language is a big issue here.  For working purposes, you often have to know the state language, national language, and English, so I'd be surprised to hear that there is no test for them.  I always here people talking about how low their marks are in Hindi and Panjabi...


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## IlPetaloCremisi

But do you think these qualifications are useful? are they really recognized abroad or they are just pieces of papers?


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## Sepia

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> But do you think these qualifications are useful? are they really recognized abroad or they are just pieces of papers?



That probably depends on what you want them for. Are we talking about the qualifications needed for special purposes like studying on universities, are we talking about proficiency levels that employers are familiar with - like "he's got level 'x' - that is enough for somebody working in the production" - or "he's got level 'y' that'll be more than enough in an executive level position".

The stupid thing about, like you say "just pieces of paper" is that some pieces of paper make a stronger impression than others. I have acquired my formal qualifications as a translator in DK/D/GB at a Danish university, that did titulate itself "university" at the time. I also have some certificate from the London Chamber of Commerce which I tested for only because they happened to be making these tests in Hamburg and I had nothing better to do on that day - so I prepared for a few days and got the certificate. When I apply for jobs, that certificate makes a much stronger impression with prospective employers than the "piece of paper" I got from the university! I suppose it is because it says London Chamber of Commerce on it.

So it will all depend on how well known these standards will be, I suppose.


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## IlPetaloCremisi

Yes, they may be just pieces of papers because there can be people who don't have these certificates but can speak the languages better than anyone else, still these "papers make curriculum vitae" as we say in italian...
So after all, they may be useful for future work experiences, right?


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## Sepia

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> Yes, they may be just pieces of papers because there can be people who don't have these certificates but can speak the languages better than anyone else, still these "papers make curriculum vitae" as we say in italian...
> So after all, they may be useful for future work experiences, right?



Paper is always useful - and those who hire people are often very irrational - selling your work, services or goods is always a combination of making the rationality and/or irratonality of someone else work in your favor. 

However, I hope these new standardized language tests will at least be well known and that you can go to your local Europe Info-Point pick up a good description of what qualifications to expect from someone who has passed one of these. That would be more or less the ideal situation.


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## Etcetera

It seems that there are no such tests in Russia. It's a shame, because there are a lot of immigrants who just don't bother to learn Russian properly (and a test might have motivated them to learn it!).

But foreign students who learn Russian at special courses normally pass an exam and, if they pass it successfully, they get a certificate.


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## elizabeth_b

As for what I know these are the tests required either if you want to work or to study in the following countries:

*Brasil:* CELPE-BRAS   Certificate of Portuguese Language for Foreign Speakers.

*E.U.A:* TOEFL Test of English as a Foreign Language 

*England:* Cambridge

*France/Canada: *
Studying: Certificate of the National French Education Ministry (DELF-DALF, TCF)
Working: Certificate of the Paris Comerce and Industry Chamber (CFP, DFA 1, DFA 2-TEF)

I don't know of any Certificate for Spanish here in Mexico.  Spain may have one for the Spanish Language.


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## IlPetaloCremisi

elizabeth_b said:


> As for what I know these are the tests required either if you want to work or to study in the following countries:
> 
> *Brasil:* CELPE-BRAS   Certificate of Portuguese Language for Foreign Speakers.
> 
> *E.U.A:* TOEFL Test of English as a Foreign Language
> 
> *England:* Cambridge
> 
> *France/Canada: *
> Studying: Certificate of the National French Education Ministry (DELF-DALF, TCF)
> Working: Certificate of the Paris Comerce and Industry Chamber (CFP, DFA 1, DFA 2-TEF)
> 
> I don't know of any Certificate for Spanish here in Mexico.  Spain may have one for the Spanish Language.



Do you think in Mexico it could be ok the certificate recognized by the Minestry of education of Spain? I know their certificates are recognized in Euopre ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ), but I'd like to know what about south america...


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## elizabeth_b

IlPetaloCremisi said:


> Do you think in Mexico it could be ok the certificate recognized by the Minestry of education of Spain? I know their certificates are recognized in Euopre ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ), but I'd like to know what about south america...


 
This is a very good question Petalo. As far as I know if you own a certificate extended by the Spanish Education Ministry it's recognized here in Mexico (talking about studies in general, not only language studies).  But, the issue we have is that as country we don't demand any spanish language certificate from foreigners in order to come and study or work here. (If I'm wrong please correct me)

Look,  when I was in the University we have exchanges programs with the Tucson University. So, if we wanted to study there for a year, we needed to present the TOEFL, but the american students didn't present any certification as we don't have one. 

Now, I would believe that if Spain has a certificate most of the spanish speaking countries will adopt it because we handle the same language although we have some differences. I'm thinking it would be something similar to the French model that's valid also for Canada. The fact would be that each country's Education Department would need to recognize it as a valid document and demand it's application as a requirement to work/study.

But this last argument it's just my guess. It would be interesting if someone from any other of the spanish speaking countries can contribute and enlighten this topic. 

Regards
E.B.


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## passion fruit

vince said:


> I heard that the European Union is trying to standardize all language tests so that there are three levels of proficiency, A, B, and C, or something like that. So eventually for European languages they will have the same types of tests.
> 
> In Hong Kong, do they actually test you on Cantonese? Or do they just test you on Chinese? I don't see how they can test on Cantonese because it doesn't have a standardized (as in book-codified) grammar. So a speaking/listening test would be all subjective. And wouldn't a written test just be a Chinese test, since HK people write in Standard Written Chinese, not Cantonese?


 
In Hong Kong we learn and get tested on written Chinese only which is the same as the official language in China and Taiwan, Mandarin. But we pronounce it in Cantonese. Maybe it's a bit difficult for foreigners to undertand this situation...

Cantonese is not a formal language it's a dialect so there's no formal teaching or any education qualification for it. 

A lot of people just speak Cantonese but not able to write it.


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## Drechuin

vince said:


> Check out www.alte.org . Twenty-six European languages will have their tests standardized, including English, Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, and Italian.
> ...
> This webpage tells you the levels of proficiency (A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2): http://www.alte.org/can_do/general.cfm



The French DELF/DALF already follow this pattern it seems ( http://www.ciep.fr/delfdalf/presentation.php ).
I guess it may also be the case for the other main European tests.


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## Nanon

Etcetera said:


> It seems that there are no such tests in Russia. It's a shame, because there are a lot of immigrants who just don't bother to learn Russian properly (and a test might have motivated them to learn it!).



There seems to be an official test however, but I wonder if anybody ever takes this exam! I assume it has more value as a proof of proficiency outside Russia.
I found this information about a testing centre in St Petersburg (MGU in Moscow has it too).


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## Lugubert

We have the Tisus (Test in Swedish for university studies). It is in the region of CEF level C1. This level gives eligibility to university studies in Sweden.

I don't think I'm the only one who finds the EU level thing wanting in that it presupposes equal proficiency in all skills for a given language. For example, I have successfully translated French legal papers, and manuals for things you couldn't even imagine existed. When I try spoken French in francophone countries, people ask me to switch to English. On the other hand, I would never try to translate a Spanish tech text, but I seldom have to use a dictionary when reading newspapers and books, and in Spain or Mexico, I rarely had to use other languages than Spanish to be understood. I can translate a normal Chinese newspaper text, and produce extremely simple spoken sentences, but am helpless if people answer.


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## NotTheDoctor

elizabeth_b said:


> *E.U.A:* TOEFL Test of English as a Foreign Language
> *USA*


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## papillon

asm said:


> I agree; however, for some needs TOEFL works as the standard. For foreign students coming into the US, this test is the most widely instrument to determine admission base on language proficiency.


In addition to this, those entering a graduate school in the USA (a masters or PhD program) are required to take GRE, Graduate Record Examination. GRE includes a test of the language proficiency, and passing it requires knowledge of some fairly advanced vocabulary.


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## panjabigator

But the standards are lower for foreign students who take the GRE.  If a strong score is 1250 (out of 1600), foreign applicants may be considered competitive with a 1000.

I should know...I take the test this Tuesday in Barcelona!  Yikes!


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## papillon

panjabigator said:


> But the standards are lower for foreign students who take the GRE.  If a strong score is 1250 (out of 1600), foreign applicants may be considered competitive with a 1000.


Hmmm, I didn't get any break when I took it...
The practice exam books come with a long list of words, which learners are expected to memorize. I recall this was the first time I saw the word "intractable"

Panj - make sure you know this one - they love to put it in. Good luck!


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## martikea

In Spain we have the Spanish Diploma (DELE), you can get them from any of the Instituto Cervantes that you will find all over the world. 
It is the only official title recognized by spanish and international public and private institution , enterprises, chambers of commerce and educational systems private and publics. If you pass the higher degree you will be accepted to study in the spanish schools and universities, with medium, you will be able to assit the the official school of languages (EOI), and it is valid with any country that has signed this agreement.
Although, maybe you will find more information about the offical diplomas in the official page of the european union www dot europa dot eu dot int  or try the instituto cervantes web page of your country.
Saludos,


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