# ciscándose en los pases...



## Masood

What does _ciscándose en los pases_ largos mean in this sentence?

*Cuando vi que Toñito se empeñaba en dar cabezazos al travesaño de la portería rival ciscándose en los pases largos, y para qué negarlo, precisos, que yo le lanzaba desde medio campo, comprendí que no había nada que hacer, que tampoco aquel año seríamos campeones.*
_
When I saw little Tony insisting on snoozing on the crossbar of the opposition's goal ...[?] long passes, and why deny it [?], precisely [?], that I launched to him from midfield, I understood that I had nothing to do, that we wouldn't be champions that year either._

Thanks


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## Amapolas

'Ciscarse' is not a word I'm familiar with. However, if I understand this correctly...
ciscar - Diccionario Inglés-Español WordReference.com
...it might mean that he took no attention of the long passes. It looks like a euphemism for (pardon my French) cagándose en los pases largos que yo le lanzaba.


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## Bevj

Ciscar is in the dictionary, though I'm not sure what is the best use of it here.
(By the way, dar_ cabezazos_ doesn't mean dozing off, it could mean heading the ball or headbutting, depending on the circumstances  - i.e. hitting with the head.)


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## Masood

Bevj said:


> Ciscar is in the dictionary, though I'm not sure what is the best use of it here.


I did see _ciscar _in the dictionary, but the meanings were quite varied.


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## chamyto

Yo creo que , quizás, tenga que ver con entorpecer, aunque no estoy seguro.


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## Hispanologist

... little Tony was busy heading the ball into the opponents' crossbar, messing up my long (and why deny it, accurate) passes etc.


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## Bevj

Well, the meaning is 'XXXX  the long and - let's be honest - accurate passes' so I think Hispanologist's suggestion could be right.
My only doubt is that the text (though not the title of the thread) says ciscándo*se *and not* ciscando.*


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## Elixabete

Amapola is right "Ciscarse en algo" means "cagarse en algo",  he swore /cursed his luck every time the other made a long pass.He does give a crap, in fact, he is pissed off.


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## Masood

Bevj said:


> Well, the meaning is 'XXXX  the long and - let's be honest - accurate passes' so I think Hispanologist's suggestion could be right.
> My only doubt is that the text (though not the title of the thread) says ciscándo*se *and not* ciscando.*


It should be ciscándo*se -* I've corrected it in the title.


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## Masood

I'm lost. 
Is Tony heading the ball against the crossbar or is he headbutting the crossbar?


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## Elixabete

I 've just noticed, "dar cabezazos al travesaño", " banging his head against the crossbar"(cross posted)


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## Masood

Elixabete said:


> I 've just noticed, "dar cabezazos al travesaño", " banging his head against the crossbar"(cross posted)


So he's headbutting the crossbar.


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## Elixabete

Sorry, I was wrong, he gets the passes and then instead of scoring,  he sends the ball with his head against the crossbar, that's why they are not likely to win the championship this year either.


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## Elcanario

Este verbo tiene más de 400 años. Los contextos más habituales en los que se usa son el de _ciscarse de miedo o el de ciscarse en algo o alguien_. Es una de esas palabras que me gustan, como a Mendoza, o al mismo Reverte, que le encanta y la usa con cierta frecuencia.
Este contexto parece apuntar a que el tal Toñito se emperra en cagarla cada vez que le manda un pase largo.
Como nota curiosa, aquí se usa otro verbo verbo de parecida grafía, enciscarse, que aunque no figura en el DRAE lo he escuchado toda la vida y tiene entre otros significados según contextos, el de obcecarse y a veces meterse en trifulcas.
Un saludo


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## Masood

Elcanario said:


> Este contexto parece apuntar a que el tal Toñito se emperra en cagarla cada vez que le manda un pase largo.


I'm still lost.
Does this mean "Toñito insists on screwing/fucking up every time a long pass is played to him"?


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## Amapolas

Claro, es lo que yo me imaginaba. Sería la acepción B de la página del WRD a que hice referencia en mi mensaje anterior.


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## Elcanario

Masood said:


> I'm still lost.


Don't be. You got it right. I should say that I've seen a bunch of words in this book that I bet you will be posting here soon. 
Un saludo


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## Ardevaas

When I saw Toñito  banging his head against the cross bar while blaming my long and accurate passes I understood that year we would not be champions either.

The idea is that Toñito is failing everytime on scoring when receiving a long pass but, instead of blaming himself for his lack of skills, complains about the pass (that, according to the narrator, it´s pretty good)


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## Elixabete

Ardeevas explanation is very good. There are two expressions in Spanish:
Cagarla= to fuck up
Cagarse en algo = to curse at something
The text mentions the second, Toñito curses at  the passes.


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## Masood

I'm lost.
Opinion is split as to what poor Toñito is actually doing.
Some say he's banging his head against the crossbar, while others say he's heading the ball against the crossbar. These are two very, very different things.


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## Elixabete

I might have been the cause of this confusion but as I made clear(at least tried) in #14 Toñito hits the ball with his head and  consistently sends it against the crossbar every single time , he is pissed and blames the sodding passes.


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## Masood

Elixabete said:


> I might have been the cause of this confusion but as I made clear(at least tried) in #14 Toñito hits the ball with his head and  consistently sends it against the crossbar every single time , he is pissed and blames the sodding passes.


Well, Ardevaas also thinks "When I saw Toñito banging his head against the cross bar" and then you said "Ardeevas explanation is very good", which added to my confusion as to what Toñito is doing. So what do you think Toñito is doing?


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## Ardevaas

It´s a problem of the context. The way it´s written it literally means "banging his head against the cross bar". If you want to clearly refer to "hitting the ball with the head towards the crossbar" (which is what the context suggests), the way I would write it to avoid mistakes is "Toñito se empeñaba en cabecear al travesaño..."

To me there is a big difference between "cabecear al travesaño" and "dar cabezazos al travesaño".

The clarity @Elixabete is referring to is probably regarding the meaning of "ciscarse"

For completeness (from dle.rae.es):
- Cabecear: 14. tr.En el fútbol, golpear el balón con la cabeza. U. t. c. intr.El delantero cabeceó hacia elcentro.

- Cabezazo: 1. m.Golpe fuerte dado con la cabeza.


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## Amapolas

Yes, as Ardevaas has pointed out, the original is a bit ambiguous and the meaning has to be gleaned from the context. 
However, "dar cabezazos" for "cabecear [la pelota]" is not unheard of, even though it's less common.


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## Elixabete

Masood said:


> Well, Ardevaas also thinks "When I saw Toñito banging his head against the cross bar" and then you said "Ardeevas explanation is very good", which added to my confusion as to what Toñito is doing. So what do you think Toñito is doing?


Gosh, you are absolutely right,I'm so sorry, I just paid attention to the blaming part.There's no doubt the right interpretation is he hit the ball with his head sending it against the crossbar , how could a player bang his head repeatedly against the crossbar of his opponents goal (he would have to be the hell of a jumper!)?


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## sound shift

He's in the opponents' goalmouth, but the "I understood...that we wouldn't be champions that year" tells us that he's not contributing, so I think the meaning of "ciscarse" in our context is a s follows:





> ciscarse VPR
> 
> los que se ciscan en las teorías those who thumb their noses at theories


 (WR dictionary)
In other words, he's ignoring all the long, accurate balls that "I" am playing from midfield (which is pretty much what iribela said). No idea what's happening to the poor crossbar, though.


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## Elixabete

"Ciscarse en algo" does not mean ignore. He gets the passes, sends them against the crossbar, blames the passes for his blunders and the narrator and author of the, in his opinión perfect  passes , blames Toñito for the lack of goals . Finally ,he foresees that, by the look of things, they are not going to win the championship this year either.


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## sound shift

I see. In that case, I might say "wasting the long, accurate balls I play to him by directing them against the crossbar", or something like that.


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## Elixabete

Yes, but he is swearing at the same time, he wastes them and when he doesn't score he swears saying something like " me cago en los putos pases largos de los cojones".I guess the "perfect passes" are too high and Toñito can only hit them with his head and send them against the crossbar,that' s why he is pissed off and swears every time the narrator keeps  sending him the same passes. The narrator, convinced of the perfection of his passes blames Toñito for the lack of goals .


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## Amapolas

Elixabete said:


> Yes, but he is swearing at the same time, he wastes them and when he doesn't score he swears saying something like " me cago en los putos pases largos de los cojones".I guess the "perfect passes" are too high and Toñito can only hit them with his head and send them against the crossbar,that' s why he is pissed off and swears every time the narrator keeps  sending him the same passes. The narrator, convinced of the perfection of his passes blames Toñito for the lack of goals .


I think this is a great exegesis of the text.


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## Masood

Elixabete said:


> how could a player bang his head repeatedly against the crossbar of his opponents goal (he would have to be the hell of a jumper!)?


¿Has visto alguna vez la portería de fútbol cinco? Es fácil dar cabezazos al travesaño.  

De todas maneras, muchísimas gracias a todos. Duda resuelta.


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## Elixabete

Pues no muchas ( ninguno de mis hijos juega al fútbol) pero incluso en el caso de una portería pequeña,  el delantero se estaría dando cabezazos contra el travesaño de la portería  del equipo contrario  ¿ junto al portero?


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