# lascia il tempo che trova



## rtdavide

*lascia il tempo che trova*
I heard this phrase in a podcast and would like to know what it means. I found a lot of examples of it on google groups, but still don't quite understand.....
I know what the individual words mean, but what is the sense?

thanks,

dave


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## federicoft

rtdavide said:


> I heard this phrase in a podcast and would like to know what it means. I found a lot of examples of it on google groups, but still don't quite understand.....
> I know what the individual words mean, but what is the sense?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> dave



It's an idiomatic expression and it refers to something feeble, which get no outcome or doesn't get rise to any effect. 
E.g. _una legge che lascia il tempo che trova_.
A quite literal translation would be: a law which deserves the time it will find.


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## Lello4ever

A thing that lascia il tempo che trova means that it has no influence on the events


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## rtdavide

It sounds like it might translate to:
it's not worth the time
or better yet:
it's a waste of time


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## Paulfromitaly

rtdavide said:


> It sounds like it might translate to:
> it's not worth the time
> or better yet:
> it's a waste of time



That's quite correct.
A behaviour that "lascia il tempo che trova" is useless, won't solve any problem and, as you said, is a waste of time.


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## gaiaam

Ciao!

Qualcuno sa aiutarmi a tradurre questo modo di dire?

[Si stanno cercando degli slogan aziendali adatti a promuovere una campagna di sensibilizzazione ambientale. Attorno a un tavolo si sta scegliendo lo slogan più adatto e per l'affermazione in questione la persona ritiene che abbia poco senso, sia un po' insignificante e non convincente, un po' fine a se stessa]

Questa affermazione lascia un po' il tempo che trova

This sentence....???

Grazie
gaia


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## miri

This idiom is translated as "It makes no difference", but I don't know if it fits the situation you described ...


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## GavinW

miri said:


> This idiom is translated as "It makes no difference", but I don't know if it fits the situation you described ...


 
Don't know where you saw that translation, ma sicuramente lascia il tempo che trova! ;-)

I'd pick the right translation from a long list, including some of the following suggestions:

It's not really good enough.
It's (sadly/a bit) lacking.
It just doesn't do it (for me).
It doesn't make the grade.
(It doesn't come up to scratch?)
It doesn't cut the mustard (BE only, I think)
etc
etc

I'd like a clearer (?) explanation of who is talking at the advertising agency, and maybe of other situations too, to confirm everyone's understanding of the exact flavour of this idiom. Ta.


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## miri

Not so far away  just in the dictionary! Ragazzini: # Questo lascia il tempo che trova, it makes no difference #

But I had a feeling it didn't fit the context, as I said ...Anyway I attracted your attention and Gaiaam now  can have your good answers


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## baldpate

I'm still struggling to relate the literal meaning of "lascia il tempo che trova" to its meaning as a colloquial expression.

I'm wondering if my problem is that I'm mis-interpretting "tempo" as "time" when it actually here means "weather".  

I say this, because when searching on Google I found that there is a fixed phrase "La nebbia lascia il tempo che trova" (also used in a proverb/saying "La predica fa come la nebbia, lascia ..."), in which the linking of "nebbia" & "tempo" suggested the "weather" meaning.  

Can anybody give me a steer on this, please?  Is the longer saying, involving "nebbia" actually the origin of the truncated colloquial expression?


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## giovannino

I think you're definitely right, baldpate. The phrase "lascia il tempo che trova" is listed under the "weather" sense of "tempo" in Devoto Oli. I've never heard the proverb involving "nebbia" but it's quite likely that the phrase is derived from it.


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## Zenof

baldpate said:


> I'm still struggling to relate the literal meaning of "lascia il tempo che trova" to its meaning as a colloquial expression.
> 
> I'm wondering if my problem is that I'm mis-interpretting "tempo" as "time" when it actually here means "weather".
> 
> I say this, because when searching on Google I found that there is a fixed phrase "La nebbia lascia il tempo che trova" (also used in a proverb/saying "La predica fa come la nebbia, lascia ..."), in which the linking of "nebbia" & "tempo" suggested the "weather" meaning.
> 
> Can anybody give me a steer on this, please? Is the longer saying, involving "nebbia" actually the origin of the truncated colloquial expression?


 
That's a big doubt Baldpate! 
I've always thought that "tempo" was related to time and not to weather.
A thing has as much importance as much time you give it (trova); that is more time you spend considering this thing more important this thing is. So if you don't give any time to the thing, the thing is not important at all. 
But after Giovannino's opinion I doubt wether mine is fine.


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## miri

In fact it is: "*La nebbia lascia il tempo che trova."  Baldpate is always right 
The complete idiom is "La predica fa come la nebbia, lascia il tempo che trova".
 Moreover the answers you can find here and here, confirm that the proper meaning of the idiom is "to make no difference". 
Altough I know that it can also take on the meanings Gavin listed.


*


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## baldpate

Thank you for your replies, everybody, and for the useful references & links.  

I pressume then that "La predica fa come la nebbia, lascia il tempo che trova" means something like "A sermon is like the mist, it leaves the weather as it finds it", from which I presume that the underlying sense of the expression "lascia il tempo che trova" is one of ending up were you started, not making progress.

As an equivalent English colloquialism with this sense, I'd therefore propose:
"XXXX _gets_/_is getting_ us nowhere" / "XXXX is not getting us anywhere" .
or
"We're _getting_/_going_ nowhere with XXXX".
There are a number of variations of this basic theme, all meaning "XXX is pointless/useless/a waste of time"

Going back to Gaiam's original post,
"Questa affermazione lascia un po' il tempo che trova",
perhaps we could translate it with
"This proposal isn't really getting us anywhere".


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## phillyitalianstudent

Giuseppe Bottai, fascist theorist of the 1930s, uses "trovare" and its derivative meaning in different ways in the following sentence.  He is responding to a literary figure who has implied that Bottai's cultural theories are simplistic.

CONTEXT:

L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia.

ATTEMPTED TRANSLATION:

The praise of ignorance is a stroke of genius; but only in the sense that it permits the time that it searches, like the fog.

This makes no sense to me.  I am unable to figure out what is the subject noun that takes the verb form "lascia" and what is the subject noun that takes the verb form "trova".  (And what does "nebbia" have to do with any of this?)


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## Fustacchione

"Lascia il tempo che trova" is a pharse which means something like "(something) fades away with no consequences", like the fog does. It can be translated also with "it has no effect on...".

"L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza" is the subject of it and it both refers to "lascia" and "trova".


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## phillyitalianstudent

Thanks for your help.  What does the verb "trovare" mean in this context?

L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia.

The praise of ignorance allows time that seeks/looks for praise of ignorance?


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## Bookmom

phillyitalianstudent said:


> Giuseppe Bottain, fascist theorist of the 1930s, uses "trovare" and it derivative meaning in different ways in the following sentence.  He is responding to a literary figure who has implied this Bottai's cultural theories are simplistic.
> 
> CONTEXT:
> 
> L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia.
> 
> ATTEMPTED TRANSLATION:
> 
> The praise of ignorance is a stroke of genius; but only in the sense that it permits the time that it searches, like the fog.
> 
> This makes no sense to me.  I am unable to figure out what is the subject noun that takes the verb form "lascia" and what is the subject noun that takes the verb form "trova".  (And what does "nebbia" have to do with any of this?)



Raising/unfurling the flag of ignorance (over an argument) is a clever ploy; because it waves over whatever circumstance it finds without effect, then vanishes like a passing fog.


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## Fustacchione

phillyitalianstudent said:


> Thanks for your help.  What does the verb "trovare" mean in this context?
> 
> L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia.
> 
> The praise of ignorance allows time that seeks/looks for praise of ignorance?



I think it can't be litterally translated the whole sentence...you must use some phrase or something to translate the whole thing...

Anyway, I found this one: http://florybrowntour.altervista.org/modi_di_dire/modi_di_dire_l01.htm#tempo0

It may be helpful for your answer!


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## CheekyAriel

Hi* phillyitalianstudent!*

We also use "lascia il tempo che trova" in different (and informal) context:

1- A journalist ask a politician his opinion on something. He reply in a vague way (as many politicians do )
In this case, the journalist could think: "questa risposta lascia il tempo che trova" (= questa risposta non è convincente= non è esaustiva= non è un gran che = non è eccezionale...etc)

2- Marco: "Che bella maglietta!" ; Sara: "Mah.. lascia il tempo che trova.." (=non è un gran che = non è eccezionale...etc)

3- "Questa teoria mi sembra interessante" - "Secondo me lascia il tempo che trova"(=è inconsistente... come la nebbia )

So... if you want a non litteral attempt: "_The praise of ignorance is a stroke of genius; but only in the sense that it's insubstantial, like the fog" _. But I'm not sure if it makes sense in English..


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## Lariana

_X lascia il tempo che trova_ means, literally, X leaves the weather as it was when X arrived. 

If it rained, it goes on raining; if it was windy, the wind still blows.

_L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia._

My take: To praise ignorance is clever, but only because, like the fog, it glides and leaves no traces.

Lariana


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## Bookmom

Quoting phillyitalianstudent's original context:

Giuseppe Bottai, fascist theorist of the 1930s, uses "trovare" and its derivative meaning in different ways in the following sentence. 

Bottai is responding to a literary figure who has implied that his cultural theories are *simplistic*.

CONTEXT:

L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia.

By way of refuting the idea that his cultural theories are simplistic (ignorant, lacking proper knowledge, ill informed), Bottai uses the phrase "l'esaltazione dell'ignoranza", not in the sense of praising the virtues of ignorance but in the sense of labeling his ideas as ignorant, raising the banner of ignorance over his ideas. 

The closest I have come to rephrasing this in English is something like:

Raising the banner of ignorance (over these ideas) is a clever smoke screen; but that is all it is, when the smoke clears, nothing has changed.


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## Lariana

Thank you, Bookmom. I didn't realize that Bottai was referring to his own theories being refuted. In fact, I'd found the axiom debatable. Now, I understand...

The sentence was quoted outside its larger context, but I wonder whether il signor Bottai, in formal writing, should have repeated the object of discussion, his own theories, to make the sentence, ahem, comprehensible (what you put between parentheses: over these/my ideas). Just saying...


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## Odysseus54

> By way of refuting the idea that his cultural theories are simplistic (ignorant, lacking proper knowledge, ill informed), Bottai uses the phrase "l'esaltazione dell'ignoranza", not in the sense of praising the virtues of ignorance but in the sense of labeling his ideas as ignorant, raising the banner of ignorance over his ideas.


I have a problem with this - in my understanding of the term and of its etymology, "Esaltare" in Italian does not mean and cannot mean "labeling" anything, regardless of the context.  Would you have examples where the word is used in the way you suggest to interpret it here ?





> Raising the banner of ignorance (over these ideas) is a clever smoke screen; but that is all it is, when the smoke clears, nothing has changed.


I don't see this in the original text.  Bottai is only saying that " Extolling ignorance is a cute invention , but only in the sense that it takes us nowhere "

No, how can a "smart idea" "take us nowhere" ?  Irony - and I think there is a pun in the Italian here between "trovata"  ( the action of 'trovare' --> invention ) and "trova".

The pun is already obscure enough in the original, and it is completely lost in translation.


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## Bookmom

Hello Odysseus54,

I was trying to keep the idea of fog/smoke passing through without effect present in the translation.  

I thought that in this case the phrase "l'esaltazione dell'ignoranza"  was similar to the idea of flying the flag, raising the banner, raising the specter of...which is used often in English by one political or ideological faction in a "back-at-you" fashion to their opposition's attempts at casting their ideas in a negative light.


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## Odysseus54

Bookmom said:


> Hello Odysseus54,
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that in this case the phrase "l'esaltazione dell'ignoranza"  was similar to the idea of flying the flag, raising the banner, raising the specter of...which is used often in English by one political or ideological faction in a "back-at-you" fashion to their opposition's attempts at casting their ideas in a negative light.




I understand , but I don't believe it can.  "Esaltare" does not mean "to lift", "to raise" , but "to exalt", "to praise", "to extoll".

I see that "to exalt" in English is translated by the MW as "to raise high, elevate" , but in Italian we do not have this meaning, not that I know.


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## Lariana

Odysseus54 said:


> I understand , but I don't believe it can.  "Esaltare" does not mean "to lift", "to raise" , but "to exalt", "to praise", "to extoll".
> 
> I see that "to exalt" in English is translated by the MW as "to raise high, elevate" , but in Italian we do not have this meaning, not that I know.



From the online Free Dictionary:

*1* _celebrare  lodare esprimere grandi lodi verso qlcu o qlco esaltare le virtù di una persona
 esaltare i pregi di un'opera letteraria
_
_*2*  entusiasmare  infiammare caricare emotivamente esaltare il pubblico
_
_*3* evidenziare, rilevare, mettere in evidenza, far risaltare; uno sfondo che esalta le figure, un abito che esalta le curve.

_Bookmom's interpretation would be consistent with the third meaning of 'Esaltare'.


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## Odysseus54

Quindi , per dire 

" Vorrei mettere in evidenza l'ignoranza di certi giornalisti "  

posso dire 

" Vorrei esaltare l'ignoranza di certi giornalisti " ?


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## Lariana

Si', Odysseus, in _teoria_. Tuttavia, in pratica, la grande maggioranza dei lettori contemporanei probabilmente non ricorda il terzo significato (non per caso è il terzo). 

 Siccome il testo citato è scritto in un linguaggio che non è contemporaneo, conoscere il terzo senso di 'Esaltare' permette di meglio interpretare la frase che ci è stata proposta. Tutto qui.


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## Paulfromitaly

Lariana said:


> Si', Odysseus, in _teoria_. .


ma molto, molto, molto in teoria.
Si esalta un aspetto positivo (infatti il dizionario cita come esempi _uno sfondo che esalta le figure, un abito che esalta le curve _), non si esalta l'ignoranza di una persona, a meno che tu voglia sostenere che l'essere ignoranti è una caratteristiva da esaltare.


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## Lariana

The point is:

Si puo' dire "X esalta la bellezza [della lingua italiana/della teoria unificata]", i.e. "X mette in rilievo la bellezza"; quindi si puo' dire di una tesi che  "esalta l'ignoranza" nel senso che la mette in rilievo. 

But this sentence can have another meaning as well: "X enhances the beauty of the Italian Language." La aumenta.

Il che non è nel senso di "extol" or "praise." 

Bottai could have meant that his critics thought something like "This theory sets off the ignorance of the thinker."

(Ma se è questo, Bottai lo dice male ).

But, the more I read this thread, the more I think the right translation was "Extolling ignorance"...


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## miri

Let's face it: that sentence is not clear even in Italian. How are we supposed to translate it?
Maybe if phillyitalianstudent could give us more information about what the literary critic exactly wrote, and I say maybe, we might have a chance of 
getting somewhere...


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## Odysseus54

Paulfromitaly said:


> ma molto, molto, molto in teoria.
> Si esalta un aspetto positivo (infatti il dizionario cita come esempi _uno sfondo che esalta le figure, un abito che esalta le curve _), non si esalta l'ignoranza di una persona, a meno che tu voglia sostenere che l'essere ignoranti è una caratteristiva da esaltare.




Puo' anche accadere con una caratteristica negativa  - uno potrebbe dire, per esempio , del film "Point Break"  , che so : " La disinvoltura di Patrick Swayze esalta la totale mancanza di espressivita' di Keanu Reeves". (rivisto ieri sera)

Quello che manca pero' nella frase in questione e' la circostanza che "esalterebbe => metterebbe in risalto" l'ignoranza.

Da quel poco che si sa dal testo, ' l'esaltazione' non e' il risultato di nulla, ma piuttosto ' una bella trovata ', cioe' l'atto di qualcuno.

E in questo senso, come 'atto di qualcuno' , esaltare puo' voler dire solo "praise", "extol" etc.

Comunque, senza perlomeno il paragrafo precedente stiamo un po' a fare gli aruspici..



Lariana said:


> The point is:
> 
> Si puo' dire "X esalta la bellezza [della lingua italiana/della teoria unificata]", i.e. "X mette in rilievo la bellezza"; quindi si puo' dire di una tesi che  "esalta l'ignoranza" nel senso che la mette in rilievo.




Io so solo che se dico " Esalto la bellezza de 'La Ginestra' " , intendendo "metto in rilievo" , Giacomo esce dalla tomba e come minimo me mena.

Non sara' un problema di gabbie linguistiche ?


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## Lariana

Odysseus54 said:


> Io so solo che se dico " Esalto la bellezza de 'La Ginestra' " , intendendo "metto in rilievo" , Giacomo esce dalla tomba e come minimo me mena.
> 
> Non sara' un problema di gabbie linguistiche ?




Infatti non si dice di una persona, ma di un elemento, una qualità che mette in rilievo, esalta (primo significato dal latino, da cui la lingua inglese a preso) qualcosa. 

Ma si puo' dire: "La scelta delle metafore nella critica di Odysseus esalta la bellezza della Ginestra." In other words, la mette in valore.

Dopo questo interessante dibattito, siamo d'accordo che 'esaltare' si puo' tradurre con 'to extol/to praise', ma anche con 'to set off/to enhance', secondo il contesto?


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## Odysseus54

Lariana said:


> Infatti non si dice di una persona, ma di un elemento, una qualità che mette in rilievo, esalta (primo significato dal latino, da cui la lingua inglese a preso) qualcosa.
> 
> Ma si puo' dire: "La scelta delle metafore nella critica di Odysseus esalta la bellezza della Ginestra." In other words, la mette in valore.



Perfetto - sono d'accordo.

Ed e' esattamente il motivo per cui questo significato secondo me non si rileva nella costruzione della frase da cui siamo partiti.

Infatti, la frase in questione dice :

" L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia. "


Essendo l'esaltazione 'una bella trovata', l'unica cosa che riesco a intravedere e' uno che esalta, non un elemento o una qualita'.


Gia' che stiamo facendo gli Sherlock Holmes, azzardo un'altra ipotesi, che linguisticamente si reggerebbe :

"L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza" potrebbe essere "Lo stato di esaltazione dell'ignorante" - se per esempio Bottai sta dando elaboratamente dell'ignorante a un critico particolarmente 'esaltato'.



Ma senza contesto siamo 'nave sanza nocchiere in gran tempesta' ...


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## Lariana

Sono d'accordo sul fatto che la frase è estremamente ambigua; e ho gia detto che abbandonavo l'idea del 'mettere in rilievo' nel contesto (or its absence thereof).

Si', qui stiamo navigando senza sestante.


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## Bookmom

As quoted by phillyitalianstudent, Bottai said,  in response to a literary figure who implied that his cultural theories were simplistic, "L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia."

I hear Bottai, sardonically, derisively, responding "Raising the banner of ignorance is a clever ploy; but only in the sense that it is as vacuous in it's effect as a passing fog."

Here at WR we are always reminded of the almighty importance of context. These discussions are energized not only by each poster's expertise in a particular subject matter, but also by the incalculable wealth of experience, extrapolation and inductive reasoning that informs each contribution.  This is what we bring to bear when we attempt to dissect, reassemble the convey the meaning of our thoughts. So whether we are extolling the virtues of or raising the banner of ignorance, we are communicating!


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## togliatti

Bookmom said:


> As quoted by phillyitalianstudent, Bottai said,  in response to a literary figure who implied that his cultural theories were simplistic, "L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza è una bella trovata; ma solo nel senso che lascia il tempo che trova, come la nebbia."
> 
> I hear Bottai, sardonically, derisively, responding "Raising the banner of ignorance is a clever ploy; but only in the sense that it is as vacuous in it's effect as a passing fog."
> 
> Here at WR we are always reminded of the almighty importance of context. These discussions are energized not only by each poster's expertise in a particular subject matter, but also by the incalculable wealth of experience, extrapolation and inductive reasoning that informs each contribution.  This is what we bring to bear when we attempt to dissect, reassemble the convey the meaning of our thoughts. So whether we are extolling the virtues of or raising the banner of ignorance, we are communicating!



The Context: "L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza" was a phrase used by Italian fascist intellectuals to characterize the attitude of the leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution vis-a`-vis the Russian peasant masses.  According to these Fascist exegetes, the Bolsheviks (and Tolstoy) saw the ignorance of the peasant masses as something to be exploited in order to keep them in power and to maintain their "tyrannical" (read: same as the Czars') rule over them.  So that expression by Bottai suggests that the coming of the Bolsheviks to power "lascia il tempo che trova" (same 'ole tyrannical rule as before).  Too bad Bottai and comp. never bothered to look at the figures on the revolutionary and lightning-like decline in illiteracy and the rapid promotion in social mobility from the ranks of the peasantry and working-class in the post-revolutionary USSR.


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## GavinW

togliatti said:


> The Context: "L'esaltazione dell'ignoranza" was a phrase used by Italian fascist intellectuals to characterize the attitude of the leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution vis-a`-vis the Russian peasant masses.



Very interesting historical background. Thanks. A case of "plus ça change", one might say... (tutto cambia di modo che niente cambi, or something like that, wasn't it?)

My overview: this thread has evolved since last time I saw it... The stuff about weather (mist and fog) is very interesting, but not necessarily relevant. Indeed, it's clear some native speakers themselves were totally unaware of the origin of the expression (as was I). We should certainly agree that we shouldn't be too influenced by the origin (or "etymology") in trying to identify a translation (and I'm stating the case mildly). Otherwise we make the classic mistake of the Ragazzini dictionary (cited by the excellent Miri). (Although baldpate in #14 makes a redoubtable stab at reconciling the two "approaches"). Unless the fuller proverb is cited, in which case there is an explicit connection, which poses a more complex problem, one that is elegantly rendered, for example, by Bookmom in #38 ). 
No, once again the translation, in most normal contexts, must be guided by usage alone (cf my earlier suggestions, and also CheekyAriel, #20). Try this test: Do you (Italian native-speaker) think of "passing fog" when you use the idiom? Be honest!


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## King Crimson

Actually I think that the 'nebbia' example in post #10 was just a forced use of this idiom, as it was meant to be also a play on words. For a standard usage -- and a prospective translation -- of this expression we should forget, in my opinion, any reference to the 'nebbia' and I agree that post #4 and your post #8 provides a number of good suggestions from which to choose (depending on the context) 

P.S. the original quote is "Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga come è, bisogna che tutto cambi" from "Il Gattopardo" by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa.


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## GavinW

King Crimson said:


> P.S. the original quote is "Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga come è, bisogna che tutto cambi" from "Il Gattopardo" by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa.



Of course! Thanks for the reminder!


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## togliatti

GavinW said:


> Very interesting historical background. Thanks. A case of "plus ça change", one might say... (tutto cambia di modo che niente cambi, or something like that, wasn't it?)
> 
> My overview: this thread has evolved since last time I saw it... The stuff about weather (mist and fog) is very interesting, but not necessarily relevant. Indeed, it's clear some native speakers themselves were totally unaware of the origin of the expression (as was I). We should certainly agree that we shouldn't be too influenced by the origin (or "etymology") in trying to identify a translation (and I'm stating the case mildly). Otherwise we make the classic mistake of the Ragazzini dictionary (cited by the excellent Miri). (Although baldpate in #14 makes a redoubtable stab at reconciling the two "approaches"). Unless the fuller proverb is cited, in which case there is an explicit connection, which poses a more complex problem, one that is elegantly rendered, for example, by Bookmom in #38 ).
> No, once again the translation, in most normal contexts, must be guided by usage alone (cf my earlier suggestions, and also CheekyAriel, #20). Try this test: Do you (Italian native-speaker) think of "passing fog" when you use the idiom? Be honest!



Re: "Tutto cambia..." (Stendhal).  The corresponding remark in Italian literature is to be found in Tomasi di Lampedusa's _Il gatopardo_: "_Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga come è, bisogna che tutto cambi._"  (the "Principe di Salina", who also has one of the greatest lines of all- time infused with anti-romantic world-weariness: "_L'amore. Certo, l'amore. Fuoco e fiamme per un anno, cenere per trenta._"


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## sibel_tomruk

Hello, I bumped into this old thread while looking, in reverse, for an Italian expression that would translate the English verb "to outlive", specifically here in this sentence:
"Yet I remain agnostic about reparations. I fear that petitions for redress are forms of political appeal that *have outlived their usefulness*."
CONTEXT: we are talking here about the plea for reparations intended as a way to compensate the descendants of enslaved and oppressed African Americans in the United States. The author seems not too convinced of their effectiveness on the political level.

Out of instinct I thought I could translate that with the Italian expression "lasciano il tempo che trovano", especially considering Federicoft's definition of the expression in the only other thread on WR dedicated to it, which is "Una regola che lascia (una volta passata) quello che ha trovato (prima di arrivare), i.e. _che non ha sortito alcun effetto_."

Therefore my attempt to translate the sentence above would be:
"Eppure rimango agnostica (scettica) nei confronti delle riparazioni. Temo che le petizioni per il risarcimento siano forme di appello politico *che lasciano il tempo che trovano*."
The literal translation would be, instead, something like "Temo che le petizioni per il risarcimento siano forme di appello politico *che sono sopravvissute alla loro utilità*".

Can someone help me out with this? Do you think the italian expression would fit in this case, or does the literal translation work better (if correct)?
thanks!


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## Starless74

As per many previous posts herein, _lasciare il tempo che_ (si) _trova_ indicates something inherently useless / pointless / irrelevant / unimportant;
Your sentence (at least to me) seems to imply those "petitions for redress" might have had some utility in the past but have now become useless, at least for the Afroamerican people. If the above is correct, I would suggest:
«...forme di appello politico che *hanno ormai esaurito la loro utilità*».
Wait for for more opinions.


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## sibel_tomruk

Grazie Starless, your suggestion sounds good to me!


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## SirEvolve

Paulfromitaly said:


> That's quite correct.
> A behaviour that "lascia il tempo che trova" is useless, won't solve any problem and, as you said, is a waste of time.





Starless74 said:


> As per many previous posts herein, _lasciare il tempo che_ (si) _trova_ indicates something inherently useless / pointless / irrelevant / unimportant;
> Your sentence (at least to me) seems to imply those "petitions for redress" might have had some utility in the past but have now become useless, at least for the Afroamerican people. If the above is correct, I would suggest:
> «...forme di appello politico che *hanno ormai esaurito la loro utilità*».
> Wait for for more opinions.


Yes, I think that something that doesn't resolve anything _lascia il tempo che trova_, which is best translated as _somthing worthless_.  In my opinion, _trovare il tempo di fare qualcosa_ is the origin of the idiom. It means putting time and effort into action, and if someone tells us that what we are doing _lascia il tempo che trova_, they are telling us we are wasting our time which we employed (_abbiamo trovato_) to do what is actually worthless.


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## Pietruzzo

SirEvolve said:


> In my opinion, _trovare il tempo di fare qualcosa_ is the origin of the idiom.


To me this saying is about weather, not time (see post #10). However, with regard to the English translation, that's an issue that "lascia il tempo che trova", i.e. is irrelevant.


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