# Je ne sais quoi



## Virgo Writer

Is there a Romanian equivalent of the phrase "je ne sais quoi"?  English usage is usually to mean something distinctive or attractive that cannot be articulated; the literal translation is "I do not know what".

The context is a male speaking to a female, using it as an adjective to describe her: "You are . . ."

I was going to use _de nedescris_, which one dictionary said meant indescribable, but another defined it as unutterable giving it a negative connotation.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## farscape

You're right about "de nedescris" - can't be used in this context.

Now, Romania claims to be a francophone country therefore depending on the age of your lady friend (30 + years) you could use the French expression or the Romanian *inefabil*(masc.) *inefabilă* (fem.).

Best,


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## Trisia

Actually, "de nedescris" strikes me as very much neutral. So neutral it needs something. If you want to say "You are..." then "ești de nedescris" won't do too well, as farscape already mentioned. Still, "ai _ceva _de nedescris" isn't bad... just mildly confusing.

... So if I understand "je ne sais quoi" then I must be over 30. Which is unfortunate, since if someone called me "inefabilă" I might flip. 

In the end, like Farscape, I think it's relatively safe to use the French version. But I also have to say that I've seen and [mostly] heard the literal translation many, many times. I'm pretty certain that if you say "Ai un 'nu știu ce'" it's going to be just fine, and it'll mean just what you want it to mean.


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## farscape

Trisia, cherie (pardon my French), je sui desole  I meant to say that if the person is 30 + it's probably safe to use the French expression, otherwise Romanian or (even English) is safer.

Having said that and with the usual caveat of not being a native English speaker, I don't think I've seen or heard this construction "You are... Je ne sais quoi" but rather "he/she has a certain je ne sais quoi".

In any case when somebody tells me "Eşti ceva de nedescris!" I never take it as a compliment :0, au contraire... (I've exhausted all my French language knowledge  )

"Ai un 'nu știu ce'" - I take it as "there is something about you that bothers me".


Later,


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## Aoyama

I guess the best way would be to keep it in French (as it is in ... English).
Now, my Romanian being mostly phonetic, I would think that :
Ai un 'nu știu ce' (lit. you have something I can't tell) is not bad (close to French) or also _Ai un 'nu pot se spun ce_, or _ai ceva ce nu pot se spun _( probably approximative).

Trisia, ma/chère/ chérie, je suis désolé


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## Trisia

Hmmmm, I don't recall seeing "nu știu ce" used negatively, but now that you mention it... yeah, they could take it the wrong way.

Of course context will help. I guess if the following sentence is "quoth he, gazing adoringly in her fair eyes", there's no way «nu știu ce» will mean «there's something amiss, but I can't quite put my finger on it».

Virgo Writer, could you give us the preceding sentence and the following it? Maybe we can suggest something different.


In any case, the French is definitely okay in my book.


EDIT: and yeah, I failed to mention that bit, thanks Farscape: it's "*ai un* _je ne sais quoi_", not "*ești *_je ne sais quoi_".

Aoyama, "nu știu ce" is idiomatic, and many people know it to be a literal translation from the French. "Nu pot să spun ce" is a good translation but you might get a weird look or two, since it sounds as if you tried to reinvent the wheel and re-create the expression.


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## Aoyama

No nope, I wouldn't dare reinvent the wheel or re-create anything in Romanian. Good already that/if I can make myself understood (and corrected).
By the way (as French is more my field than Romanian), "(un) je ne sais quoi de ..." generally + adjective is a bit different from "ineffable" (unutterable) or "indescribable". It has a softer, milder touch ...


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## Virgo Writer

It's for a story and the male character is Romanian born.  So the conversation proceeding it goes like this:


“You completely baffle me,” he said with smirk of approval.  “I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone so . . . I don’t even know the word for it,” he said with a laugh, words failing him.  “In any language.”
“Is that a good thing?” she asked with a hint of mirth.
“It is,” he assured her with a charming smile.  “You are . . . 


Aoyama's understanding je ne sais quoi is exactly why _de nedescris_ didn't seem to fit - unutterable just made me think of 'he who shall not be named' rather than 'I don't have the words to describe how wonderful you are'.  I think je ne sais quoi is usually used as a noun rather than an adjective, thus making this whole exercise more difficult - more a "you have . . ." rather than "you are . . ."

Thanks again.


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## farscape

A few ideas - nothing to write home about 

You are... n-am cuvinte să te descriu (words fail me to picture/describe you)
You are... eşti cu totul deosebită (you are unique/special)
You are... o prezenţă inefabilă (a person very hard/impossible to  describe/imagine); inefabil, in Romanian, is used with a poetic/romantic  meaning.

I can't think of anything that might be a direct replacement for the  French expression. If it were a Romanian piece, using it would make  perfect sense, however, the whole Romanian background would be lost in  VW's case on an English reader.

Best,


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## Aoyama

> I think je ne sais quoi is usually used as a noun rather than an adjective


This Forum deals with Romanian, not French, but still, a comment on the idiom in question may be useful.
"Je ne sais quoi" will/must be used with a following adjective : she has a "je ne sais quoi" _de_ tendre/sweetness. She has some [kind of ] sweetness that I can't describe.


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## farscape

Aoyama said:


> .
> "Je ne sais quoi" will/must be used with a following adjective : she has a "je ne sais quoi" _de_ tendre/sweetness. She has some [kind of ] sweetness that I can't describe.



Right, but this is how it's used in English (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/je_ne_sais_quoi):

Noun
je ne sais quoi (uncountable)
An intangible quality that makes something distinctive or attractive.
She has a certain je ne sais quoi about her.

Noun
je ne sais quoi m
a certain something, je ne sais quoi

To make things more complicated, the OP is looking for a Romanian expression that has an equivalent meaning to the French expression "je ne sais quoi" used in English and which can follow "You are... " I think 

Later,


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## Aoyama

The link you gave on wiktionary doesn't give any answer ...
The example "She has a certain je ne sais quoi about her" is correct and interesting, showing precisely how this use differs from the original French.
Now, 





> To make things more complicated, the OP is looking for a Romanian expression that has an equivalent meaning to the French expression "je ne sais quoi" used in English and which can follow "You are... " I think


Vai de mine or doamne feresc (always my approximative Romanian ...).


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## farscape

Aoyama said:


> The link you gave on wiktionary doesn't give any answer ...



 I tyhought it did: in order to find the right equivalent in Romanian, we need the right meaning and usage in English. This is what you were saying earlier:



			
				Aoyama said:
			
		

> "Je ne sais quoi" will/must be used with a following adjective : she has a "je ne sais quoi" _de_ tendre/sweetness. She has some [kind of ] sweetness that I can't describe.



And this is my point 



			
				Aoyama said:
			
		

> The example "She has a certain je ne sais quoi about her" is correct and interesting, showing precisely how this use differs from the original French.



I suppose we should stay focused on the English meaning and usage if we are to be of any help to VW.

Later,


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## Virgo Writer

I'm gonna try a different track here, maybe shift it a little away from the 'je ne sais quoi' part, as it seems to be overcomplicating things.  I think the word I'm after is 'indescribable' but with the same connotation that you get from je ne sais quoi - a sort of positive/attractive/compelling, but unnameable quality.

And seeing as it's the closest so far, do you think there's a way to, I guess, soften _de nedescris_?  Or do you think there is no way to use it in this context?

Thanks for all your help despite this question getting far more complex than it initially seemed,


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## Aoyama

I still think that keeping the original French locution in Romanian (but in a way that fits Romanian) is the best.


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## farscape

Aoyama said:


> I still think that keeping the original French locution in Romanian...



I'd agree if the text was written in Romanian - it would make perfect sense.

I think I've got something which is really close to what I think VW is looking for:

... tu ai un *ce *aparte.

This is an idiom, meaning there is something special about you,  intriguing and likeable, (maybe) something I can't put my finger on...  you get the idea.

it can be left alone or supplemented with something like:

care mă atrage - which attracts me
care-mi aduce aminte de... - which reminds me of
care ma duce cu gândul la - which makes me think of


Best,


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## Aoyama

But that is probably trying to dot too many ies, that is to say trying to express too much in words. "Je ne sais quoi" is not so precise and should be kept like this.


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## farscape

Aoyama said:


> But that is probably trying to dot too many ies, that is to say trying to express too much in words. "Je ne sais quoi" is not so precise and should be kept like this.



The expression "tu ai un ce aparte" can be and is used as is, without any additional "i"-es  And it fits in the context 

Perhaps this will spring more/better ideas.

f.


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## Virgo Writer

farscape said:


> ... tu ai un *ce *aparte.
> 
> This is an idiom, meaning there is something special about you,  intriguing and likeable, (maybe) something I can't put my finger on...  you get the idea.



I think this is exactly the meaning I was looking for, especially the last meaning you suggested - "something I can't put my finger on".  That's pretty close to the English usage of je ne sais quoi and it has the softer connotation that was missing.

Thanks farscape, this should work perfectly.  I'll just drop the 'you are' so it reads a bit better in the dialogue.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## Trisia

I love farscape's suggestion (ashamed I didn't think of it myself). A note, however. I was looking at the context you gave us (by the way, please remember the rule is a maximum of four sentences of text) and I think that here you should take out the pronoun "tu". Like so:

“It is,” he assured her with a charming smile.  “Ai un ce aparte..."


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## catrafuse

Eminescu spunea asa: 
Astfel robit de-aceeaşi jale
Petrec mereu acelaşi drum...
În taina farmecelor sale
E-*un "nu ştiu ce*" ş-un "nu ştiu cum".


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## Aoyama

Or "Ai *un nu ştiu ce*" (I don't understand the _cum _in "nu ştiu cum" -I don't know _how_), which seems very close to French ...


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