# Sestiere Frazione Quartiere Contrada Zona



## dutchy79

Qualcuno mi può spiegare la differenza tra:

località, frazione e contrada?

Grazie!


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## lsp

Please help us help everybody by giving titles to your threads that equate to your topic. Thread titles appear in dictionary entries to lead people to discussions of terms they would like to understand better. So in this case a person would find your thread under _differenza_, when it would be more useful under _località, frazione e contrada. _  Thanks in advance.
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## TrentinaNE

Grazie, lsp.  L'ho cambiato.  

Benvenuto, dutchy.  Hai dei contesti in cui hai sentito queste parole?

Elisabetta (Moderator)


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## Giannaclaudia

There are many on-line dictionaries, as you can see in the sticky on top of this forum page.
Anyway, here it is the translation:
*località* : resort
*frazione* : hamlet
*contrada* : quarter, town district


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## federico.marrone

Cara Giannaclaudia,
sei sicura della traduzione che hai proposto per "contrada"?
In genere "contrada" si riferisce ad un ristretto ambito territoriale in contesto agricolo, e le parole che proponi sembrano invece applicarsi esclusivamente ad un contesto urbano...
Aspetto delucidazioni!
Federico


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## TrentinaNE

federico.marrone said:


> sei sicura della traduzione che hai proposto per "contrada"?
> In genere "contrada" si riferisce ad un ristretto ambito territoriale in contesto agricolo


Non secondo De Mauro:


> 1 BU quartiere, rione di una città | RE tosc., a Siena, ognuno dei diciassette quartieri in cui è divisa la città per partecipare al palio


In questo caso, quarter/district mi sembrano corrette.

Benvenuto a WRF.  
Elisabetta


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## franz rod

> n genere "contrada" si riferisce ad un ristretto ambito territoriale in contesto agricolo



Non sarà il contado?


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## federico.marrone

Mmm, 
qua in Sicilia (Palermo, per la precisione) "contrada" non si riferisce mai ad un contesto urbano. Di contro, con questo termine si indica una porzione di territorio agricolo, così come è anche riportato nella cartografia dell'IGM.
Grazie comunque per la precisazione... Non si finisce mai di imparare!
A presto
Federico
ps. Se qualcuno sapesse suggerirmi come tradurre "contrada" nel senso in cui la intendo io... si faccia vivo! Io ho trovato soltanto "district"


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## Bibix

I agree with federico.marrone. Contrada is usually referred to a rural environment.
One of my Italian- English dictionaries published in 1963 simply suggests "land". It might be generic but I do think it serves the purpose.
The word "contrada" is now still used for some districts in towns with a rural background, i.e. Siena.


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## TrentinaNE

Bibix said:


> Contrada is usually refer*s*red to a rural environment.


A common error Italians make translating _si riferisce_. 

Benvenuta a WRF. 

Elisabetta


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## Quantz

I have the same difficulty here translating "_contrada_" in rural Sicilia.
I cannot think of an equivalent :
district ? 
county ?  (there are no "counties" as such in Italy)
???


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## Milvia

May I draw somebody's attention to the word "frazione"
Giannaclaudia suggested "hamlet" but that is what I would rather call "borgo" in Italian.

My question is whether I could use the word "fraction" in English, meaning a small grouping of houses with a name of their own but which are administrativly bound to a larger nearby village. Or would that not be understood by English speaking readers?

Thanks for any help...


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## TrentinaNE

Milvia said:


> My question is whether I could use the word "fraction" in English, meaning a small grouping of houses with a name of their own but which are administrativly bound to a larger nearby village. Or would that not be understood by English speaking reader?


Fraction does not have this meaning in English.

Elisabetta


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## Milvia

> Originally Posted by *Milvia*
> My question is whether I could use the word "fraction" in English, meaning a small grouping of houses with a name of their own but which are administrativly bound to a larger nearby village. Or would that not be understood by English speaking readers?


Thanks a lot! 
So the only word that's left for me to use is "hamlet".....is that so?


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## TrentinaNE

Milvia said:


> meaning a small grouping of houses with a name of their own but which are administrativly bound to a larger nearby village.


I don't think this type of arrangement exists in the US (at least I've never heard of it). While _hamlet_ does seem more like _borgo_ in Italian, it may be the best option. 

Elisabetta


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## lsp

A housing development, or just development, might be fitting. It refers to a residential neighborhood made up of similar constructions with a neighborhood association or other type of single management entity.


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## Milvia

That's interesting. Thanks. 
However I really do not think it suits my case because the word "development" evokes someting modern to me, something like houses built of late. Now, in Italy, "una frazione" usually refers to a bunch of houses built, say, a mile away from the main village (which may have from 1 to 3 thousand inhabitants, just to give you an idea) and to which a name has been given, other than that of the main village. 
ex: the village is called Cantavilla  and nearby there is "frazione Gobba", meaning that the little group of houses called "Gobba" are a "frazione" of Cantavilla.
Well, maybe there's actually no translation for this _concept_. Does any old English (Scottish or Welsh) village have this kind of "extension"?
Thanks for contributing


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## Einstein

In Britain situations of this kind undoubtedly exist, but I can't think of an official term for them. Part of the problem is that Italians like to refer to villages etc. according to how they are administered while we don't usually do this in English.
We refer to the place by its name and, only if pressed about its administrative situation, we say "it's part of X" or "it comes under X". Otherwise we would only say "it's near X".


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## lsp

In political geography, an *enclave* is a territory whose geographical boundaries lie entirely within the boundaries of another territory.(wikipedia) Can't find anything for a similar area _nearby_.


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## Milvia

enclave = Territorio situato entro i confini di uno stato ma politicamente dipendente da un altro stato (p.e. Campione d'Italia, comune italiano in Svizzera)

(dizionario italiano del Corriere della Sera)


Temo non sia il nostro caso.


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## fruffus

I would say località does not always mean resort. I have here a sentence in a translation: residente a "blabla" (PI), località "taldeitali" 
resort non va bene e locality non mi suona giusto...
qualcuno ha un suggerimento?
grazie


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## furs

Fruffus, la soluzione logica (e come a mio avviso lo renderebbe un nativo, quanto meno britico)- sarebbe dire 'resident of taldeitali, blabla, Pisa', vale a dire senza definire i luoghi in questione ma solo citandoli in ordine di grandezza dal piu' piccolo al piu' grande.


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## Einstein

furs said:


> Fruffus, la soluzione logica (e come a mio avviso lo renderebbe un nativo, quanto meno britico)- sarebbe dire 'resident of taldeitali, blabla, Pisa', vale a dire senza definire i luoghi in questione ma solo citandoli in ordine di grandezza dal piu' piccolo al piu' grande.


Concordo.


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## SPQR

Hello,

We have talked about "quartiere/i" in a city on the IE forum, and on IO and IS, the word "sestiere" has been mentioned, but never fully discussed here.
I thought it might be helpful if I tried to put a variety of words together in a single thread to give us all a perspective on the use of each.

As we know a "quartiere" is a large, formal part of a city, often with very clear borders.
"Quarter/part/district/area/neighborhood" seem to be reasonable translations, given various contexts.

"Contrada" is similar to a "quartiere" but often used to help define cultural events "Palio di Siena", but seems to be used in the middle of Italy and the South.

"Zona" seems to be both a formal term that could be translated as the general word "zone" or "area".
Abiti in zona? Do you live around here?

In the Veneto/Friuli region I've noticed the word "frazione" applied to a very small "city" - speparate from a larger city but apparently a "part" of it.

I'm in Venice now and am looking up addresses and encountering the words "sestier" and "sestiere" often. The words seem to represent VERY small parts of the city, like a street or a smaller part of a parrocchia.

Can out Italian friends comment on the ideas above with respect to (1) common usage and (2) regional usage?

Thanks.


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## Passante

Usi comuni:
quartiere
zona (non necessariamente uguale a quartiere) è un termine molto generico e non è detto che abbia dei confini definiti tant'è che può modificarsi nel tempo

frazione è un termine di uso comune, ma è  differente dal quartiere 

la frazione di una città è un agglomerato urbano che costituisca almeno un *centro abitato*, ma disgiunto/non contiguo con la città stessa - in mezzo ci sono ad esempio degli appezzamenti di terreno o una montagna o altro.

Per essere considerato frazione deve avere le caratteristiche di un centro abitato ovvero deve avere almeno 25 fabbricati contigui e raggruppati (eventualmente separati solo da strade e/o  aree ad uso pubblico con accessi veicolari e pedonali) - secondo la legge.



Usi locali (solo in alcune città):
contrada  o rioni e solo a Venezia sestiere (anche Firenze era divisa in sestieri, ma non so se è rimasto come uso) a Roma esistono i municipi


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## SPQR

Passante said:


> Usi comuni:
> quartiere
> zona (non necessariamente uguale a quartiere) è un termine molto generico e non è detto che abbia dei confini definiti tant'è che può modificarsi nel tempo
> 
> frazione è un termine di uso comune, ma è differente dal quartiere
> 
> la frazione di una città è un agglomerato urbano che costituisca almeno un *centro abitato*, ma disgiunto/non contiguo con la città stessa - in mezzo ci sono ad esempio degli appezzamenti di terreno o una montagna o altro.
> 
> Per essere considerato frazione deve avere le caratteristiche di un centro abitato ovvero deve avere almeno 25 fabbricati contigui e raggruppati (eventualmente separati solo da strade e/o aree ad uso pubblico con accessi veicolari e pedonali) - secondo la legge.
> 
> 
> 
> Usi locali (solo in alcune città):
> *contrada* o *rioni* e solo a Venezia *sestiere* (anche Firenze era divisa in sestieri, ma non so se è rimasto come uso) a Roma esistono i municipi


 
Grazie _*mille*_ per la spiegazione.
Ma un'altra domanda - la frazione ha il suo proprio sindaco/municipio, o il sindaco/municipio della citta' piu' grande serve come il centro del governo per la frazione?


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## Passante

La seconda che hai detto.
La frazione della città pinco ha come sindaco il sindaco di pinco. (la frazione è una delle suddivisioni della città perchè è all'interno del territorio comunale ma le sue case non confinano direttamente con quelle della città di appartenenza)


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## SPQR

Ora e' chiaro, grazie mille!


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## Toltec

Just another perspective on this, but unless the administrative relationship of these divisions to some larger town or city is actually important in the context of the translation, it's often best to translate them with more generic/vague terms. A "borgo di..." might be more meaningfully rendered as just "a suburb of..." A "frazione di..." might just be a "village near..." There are lots of possibilities. Get onto Google Maps and find out the lay of the land. There's no point getting bogged down in the intricacies of  Italian administrative divisions in a translation when there simply won't be any term that will have exactly the same connotations to all non-Italians as the original does to Italians since different countries are set up differently. If the administrative structure is important in the context, then it might even be best to retain the Italian term and footnote it.


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## anglomania1

Hi there, 
I agree with Einstein here.
Also because, does anybody actually use "hamlet" these days? For an administrative area like _frazione_?
It sounds archaic and obsolete to me - unless we are reading a history book.


I have to translate "frazione" too, and I'm not too happy with "hamlet".

My context is a winery and the sentence is: Ottenuto con le uve Chardonnay dei vigneti di proprietà della Tenuta XXX  situati nella frazione YYY.

Maybe I should just say: Made from Chardonnay grapes from the XXX Estate’s vineyards in the YYY area (near YYY)?

Any suggestions?
Thanks, 
Anglo.


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## Blackman

Ciao Anglo,

it's not obsolete at all in Italian. _Frazione_ doesn't necessarily means the town is really small, although it usually is: it's an administrative matter. I suggest to translate it with a word of your choice in English amongst _village_, _small town,_ _hamlet _or whatever you think has a nice sound.



anglomania1 said:


> Hi there,
> I agree with Einstein here.
> Also because, does anybody actually use "hamlet" these days? For an administrative area like _frazione_?
> It sounds archaic and obsolete to me - unless we are reading a history book.
> 
> 
> I have to translate "frazione" too, and I'm not too happy with "hamlet".
> 
> My context is a winery and the sentence is: Ottenuto con le uve Chardonnay dei vigneti di proprietà della Tenuta XXX situati nella frazione YYY.
> 
> Maybe I should just say: Made from Chardonnay grapes from the XXX Estate’s vineyards in the YYY area (near YYY)?
> 
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
> Anglo.


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