# Allah



## wordreferencestar

Salaamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatu.
What is the best equivalent of "الله" in English?
Allah or God?
Please give good reasons.


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## Abu Rashid

Translation: God
Transliteration: Allah

It's as simple as that.


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## Nadia_Taliba

wa alaikum as salam warahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

It depends who the audience is. If they are not Muslims God is best, as they most likely to have not heard of the Arabic word for God i.e. Allah.

However, if they are Muslim I think Allah is fine. I have read many Islamic texts in English, in which Allah is kept as Allah and not changed. It is used in English and can be found in the dictionary, therefore it is a proper noun. So it all depends on the audience in my opinion.


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## Aoyama

> Translation: God
> Transliteration: Allah


That is very true, but maybe not as simple as that ...
I would go against using the word _God_ to translate Allah because of the "pagan" etymology" of the word God (and for that matter, other words like Dieu, Dio etc).
But that is a thorny debate ...


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## Sidjanga

Hi,

There has been a similar thread here: الحمد لله  Al_hamdu~lilah


Nadia_Taliba said:


> It depends who the audience is. If they are  not Muslims God is best, as they most likely to have not heard of the  Arabic word for God i.e. Allah.


Well, in any case, I don't think there are many non-Muslims on this planet who've really never heard the word _Allah _- and be it just on the radio or on TV; not where I live, anyway. 
I'd even go so far as to say that it's actually quite common to hear it. 





Aoyama said:


> That is very true, but maybe not as simple as that  ...
> I would go against using the word _God_ to translate Allah because  of the "pagan" etymology" of the word God (and for that matter, other  words like Dieu, Dio etc).
> But that is a thorny debate ...


As for the ethymology of the word  الله, see this  thread, for example.


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## Mahaodeh

Aoyama said:


> That is very true, but maybe not as simple as that ...
> I would go against using the word _God_ to translate Allah because of the "pagan" etymology" of the word God (and for that matter, other words like Dieu, Dio etc).
> But that is a thorny debate ...



The etymology of Allah is basically the same, isn't it? It's just simply the Semitic equivalent.


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## Abu Rashid

> I would go against using the word _God_ to translate Allah because  of the "pagan" etymology" of the word God (and for that matter, other  words like Dieu, Dio etc).



Well just because people have used them for such things doesn't mean they become invalid as a word. God (with capital 'g') is generally recognised to refer to the same concept as Allah. The Pagan Arabs also used the word Allah, does that mean it has a "Pagan etymology"? I don't think so.


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## the-moon-light

Abu Rashid said:


> Well just because people have used them for such things doesn't mean they become invalid as a word. God (with capital 'g') is generally recognised to refer to the same concept as Allah. The Pagan Arabs also used the word Allah, does that mean it has a "Pagan etymology"? I don't think so.


 
Actuly we can't name the Arabs of Makkah as pagans because they know and believe of Allah, in Quran:
 
*" ولئن سألتهم من خلق السموات و الأرض ليقولن الله" سورة الزمر آية 38*​
So they believe in Allah and they know Him.
But we can call them polytheists مشركين because they worship Idols with Allah.




wordreferencestar said:


> Salaamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatu.
> What is the best equivalent of "الله" in English?
> Allah or God?
> Please give good reasons.


 
wa alikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh..

I don't think that God is equivalent of Allah because:

1- God means in Arabic رب or إله , in Quran Allah says:
* 
" يا صاحبي السجن أأربابٌ متفرقون أم الله الواحد القهار"   سورة يوسف آية 39
*​So God is *رب* and you can make it plural as Gods or femenine as Godess, but Allah is one! and you can't make it plural or femenine.​2- Allah is اسم علم a name like Mohammad is a name, so you can't translate names.

Here we can see why we translate *الله* as Allah.

P.S. When you say wa rahamtu Allah make the word Allah separate and with capital letter because it's a name of Allah.


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## Josh_

the-moon-light said:


> I don't think that God is equivalent of Allah because:
> 
> 1- God means in Arabic رب or إله , in Quran Allah says:
> 
> *" يا صاحبي السجن أأربابٌ متفرقون أم الله الواحد القهار" سورة يوسف آية 39*​
> So God is *رب* and you can make it plural as Gods or femenine as Godess, but Allah is one! and you can't make it plural or femenine.​
> 2- Allah is اسم علم a name like Mohammad is a name, so you can't translate names.
> 
> Here we can see why we translate *الله* as Allah.


I disagree. First of all, الله is just إله with a definite article on it (literally in English: "the God") in order to specify or particularize. In this case it is specifying "the one (true) God" from the rest. 

Now, "God," with a capital G, is what people use when they want to indicate the one (and only/true) God; it is definite without needing the definite article and is a proper noun (اسم علم). In terms of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it cannot be made plural, as there is only one "God" in these religions. The whole point of its being used capitalized is to particularize "God" from "gods;" to indicate the oneness of "God."

The word "god," with a lowercase g, is what people use when they want to use the term generally, or indicate more than one god (e.g. the Roman gods, the Greek gods). It is not definite.

So "الله" stands in the same relationship to "إله" as "God" does to "god."

رب, on the other hand, means "lord," but can be applied to "God" when made definite -- الرب. 


I, like Abu Rashid, think it is a simple matter -- "God" is a translation, "Allah" is a transliteration.

My habit is to always translate "الله" as "God" unless there is a reason to translate it as "Allah."


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## Mahaodeh

I tend to agree with Abu Rashid and Josh. Allah is just ilaah with the definite article to make it specific just as God is just god with a capital G to make it specific.


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## L.2

Allah is an Arabic noun that means The God and it is not a name it's no more than a noun so why we don't simply translate it? transliterating the word made so many confusion in the world. Many non Muslims think Muslims have a particular deity and His name is Allah, they don't know that allah is just a transliteration and maybe we all came across some debates, arguments that claim Allah is not God He's an ancient moon god, sometime they claim He is a stone or a false god they don't know it's an Arabic word that is used by all Arabic speakers including Arab Christians, Jews, Pagans...etc Furthermore, the word itself has been used too long before the birth of Islam, for example Muhammad's father was called Abdullah and his son was not even born yet. Allah is not for Muslims it is a semitic word, hebrew eloh, Arabic elah, Aramaic alah, I and will always translate it.


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## Abu Rashid

moon-light,

as-salaamu alaykum,



> Actuly we can't name the Arabs of Makkah as pagans because they know and  believe of Allah, in Quran:



Pagan = polytheist = mushrik.

*Paganism* (from Latin _paganus_, meaning "country dweller",  "rustic")[1]  is a blanket term used to refer to various polytheistic, non Abrahamic religious traditions. (Source: Wikipedia)



> 1- God means in Arabic رب or إله , in Quran Allah says:



God = الإله
And as mentioned above, this is one of the theories about the etymology of the word الله

ربّ = lord



> 2- Allah is اسم علم a name like Mohammad is a name, so you can't  translate names.



In this case I think it's better to translate, since God is a concept that exists in all languages.

We might not translate Muhammad because it doesn't exist in other languages. But how about for names that have cognates in other languages? Perhaps we could, although generally we do not, it's done sometimes.



> Here we can see why we translate *الله* as Allah.



Again it's not translation, it's transliteration.


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## Aoyama

This thread will evolve into an "ontological" debate ...
But simply, my point was that if you use "God", you could also use its romance language equivalent (Deus, Dieu, Dio, Dios ...) which we know comes from Zeus. So here we clearly have a "pagan" or "polytheist" origin.
As to the origin of Allah, yes, it comes from Canaanite and Hebrew "El" (and various other words developping from this root) basically meaning "idol" BUT (arguable) influenced by the word el/al meaning "above". You find the same concept in other languages, for example Japanese, where the word for God is "kami", which also means "above, on", "hair [above the head]" ...
In short, I'd say Allah is Allah.


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## Abu Rashid

> But simply, my point was that if you use "God", you could also use its  romance language equivalent (Deus, Dieu, Dio, Dios ...) which we know  comes from Zeus. So here we clearly have a "pagan" or "polytheist"  origin.



Yes in the languages that use those words we could. I don't think those languages use those words to mean Zeus, and it could well be that Zeus was once considered to occupy the meaning of "the God" anyway.

I think you're missing the point that it's more about the semantics of the word than it is about the etymology. The word 'god' after all comes from Germanic 'gott' which had a lot of pagan connotations too.



> As to the origin of Allah, yes, it comes from Canaanite and Hebrew "El"  (and various other words developping from this root) basically meaning  "idol"



Wrong. 'Allah' would be cognate with the Hebrew/Canaanite (and Ugaritic, Sumerian, Sabaic etc) words, not originating from them.



> BUT (arguable) influenced by the word el/al meaning "above".



This is completely wrong. The words you're talking about are completely different. They are just sometimes confusingly transcribed into English/Latin with the same letters because English/Latin lacks the letter ayin. Above/high is ayin-lam (in both Hebrew and Arabic and most other Semitic languages), whilst the word for deity is alef-lam (again in most Semitic languages).


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## HKK

On WordReference we can discuss a touchy subject like this in a serene way. This forum is a rare gem 

I would like to react to Aoyama's etymologies of Dieu, Dios etc. These words were not derived from Zeus - they have the same ancestor word which makes them cognates. All the Romance words, the name Zeus, and the Tues- in Tuesday are all descended from the Indo-European root deiwos, meaning divine.

It's the same mistake as saying the evolution theory means we are descended from chimpanzees. 

Even though the etymology shouldn't really matter in this debate in my opinion, still the Romance languages are not guilty of etymological shirk


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## Abu Rashid

HKK thanks for that insight. I didn't think deus/deity was necessarily specific to any particular 'god', I've always known it as a generic term for an 'object of worship/sanctification'. Knowing it has a PIE root meaning 'divine' makes a lot of sense.


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## Faylasoof

Josh_ said:


> .... First of all, الله is just إله with a definite article on it (literally in English: "the God") in order to specify or particularize. In this case it is specifying "the one (true) God" from the rest. ....
> 
> .....So "الله" stands in the same relationship to "إله" as "God" does to "god."
> 
> رب, on the other hand, means "lord," but can be applied to "God" when made definite -- الرب.


 

This is how I too feel, Josh. We had similar discussions here and here.



Josh_ said:


> My habit is to always translate "الله" as "God" unless there is a reason to translate it as "Allah."


 
I also do the same – translate الله as God. My Arabic version of the Bible is full of الله or الرَّبُّ or الرَّبُّ الإِلهُ when in the English version respectively, God or The Lord or The Lord God appears.



the-moon-light said:


> ....2- Allah is اسم علم a name like Mohammad is a name, so you can't translate names.



I beg to differ. Names, Arabic or otherwise, can be and are translatable / translated. With reference to this name: Mohammad = praised!


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## Abu Rashid

> Mohammad = praised!




Actually it's usually translated as "praiseworthy", but I don't think that is the same thing. That's merely translating the meaning of the name. I don't think anyone introduces themself saying "Pleased to meet you, my name is praiseworthy". We're talking about translating the name for usage. Generally names are not translated between languages, because a name is a personal identifier, and changing it is confusing.

However, I'd suggest that in the case of God, then translating seems to have always been the norm, probably because the concept of God is so universal and is known by every single culture/language community on earth, as far as we know, all throughout recorded history. It's almost accepted that nobody has a 'monopoly' on the concept of God, and therefore cannot enforce their language-specific term for common use (although some may have tried).


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## clevermizo

I just wanted to say that I think it is completely invalid to suggest or to invalidate usage based on etymology. Usage is usage. There are so many words that would have different meanings if we only used them in their etymological sense.

I don't particularly care what the etymology of God is in English or the etymology of Dios in Spanish. These words are used today with the meaning of the monotheistic deity of Judaism and Christianity (when used with capitalized D/G), and therefore Islam by extension. Translating Allah as "God" therefore _gets the point across_ and furthermore I agree as L.2 above that _transliterating it_ only serves to add confusion and separates the Muslim world off as if Muslims worship a separate Diety. Basically then the argument is do Jews and Christians worship a different god than Muslims do, which really doesn't help the state of world affairs. Translating Allah as Allah further exacerbates this hurtful perception.

Now, in certain contexts I think it may be appropriate to use Allah transliterated, especially in Muslim contexts where other Arabic terms are being used in transliteration.


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## Aoyama

> [Allah](arguable) influenced by the word el/al meaning "above". This is completely wrong.
> The words you're talking about are completely different. _They are just sometimes confusingly transcribed into English/Latin with the same letters because English/Latin lacks the letter ayin_. _Above/high is ayin-lam (in both Hebrew and Arabic and most other Semitic languages), whilst the word for deity is alef-lam (again in most Semitic languages)_


this is true, that is why I wrote "arguable" (or debatable). Still, I believe (right or wrong) that _there is_ an influence somewhere. But an argument on this would be off-topic here.
This being said, I agree somewhat with clevermizo above.
One thing though, Jews relunctantly use the word G.od, and if they do, it would generally be written as I did, or only with G. Others will use the Hebrew "Hashem" (the Name) ...


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## Abu Rashid

> this is true, that is why I wrote "arguable" (or debatable). Still, I  believe (right or wrong) that _there is_ an influence somewhere.  But an argument on this would be off-topic here.



I don't think there's any argument at all, the words are completely separate etymologically. The confusion (which I admit I had as well when first learning Arabic) comes from non-Arabic speakers not realising the difference between alef and ayin. These two letters do not have any etymological relationship.

I think you've confused a lot of the etymological issues here, like for instance your misconception that "Allah" is etymologically descended from Hebrew/Canaanite.


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## the-moon-light

Josh_ said:


> I disagree. First of all, الله is just إله with a definite article on it (literally in English: "the God") in order to specify or particularize. In this case it is specifying "the one (true) God" from the rest.
> 
> So "الله" stands in the same relationship to "إله" as "God" does to "god."
> 
> رب, on the other hand, means "lord," but can be applied to "God" when made definite -- الرب.
> 
> 
> I, like Abu Rashid, think it is a simple matter -- "God" is a translation, "Allah" is a transliteration.
> 
> My habit is to always translate "الله" as "God" unless there is a reason to translate it as "Allah."


 
Well , here we are not talking about your habit Josh, but about what is correct.

I disagree with you that الله is إله with an article diffintion! from where did you get this information?

Let see what Lissanu Al3arb says:
لأَزهري: قال الليث بلغنا أَن اسم الله الأَكبر هو الله لا إله إلاَّ هو وحده .
so Allah is a name of Muslims God.

ما ذكره الجوهري من قولهم الإلَهُ، لأَن اسم الله لا يجوز فيه الإلَهُ، ولا يكون إلا محذوف الهمزة، تَفَرَّد سبحانه بهذا الاسم لا يشركه فيه غيره، فإذا قيل الإلاه انطلق على الله سبحانه وعلى ما يعبد من الأَصنام، وإذا قلت الله لم ينطلق إلا عليه سبحانه وتعالى، ولهذا جاز أَن ينادي اسم الله، وفيه لام التعريف وتقطع همزته، فيقال يا ألله، ولا يجوز يالإلهُ على وجه من الوجوه، مقطوعة همزته ولا موصولة، 
so here it's clear that Allah is a name that Allah told us in His book that His name is Allah.

How can you translate this verse of Quran in English?

*يَا قَوْمِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ إِلَهٍ غَيْرُهُ) (الأعراف:59). ...*
*
Can we say here: worship God, you have no god excpt Him?? or worship Allah....?? 
isn't clear that here Allah telling us about His name?*

Tell me your suggestions.




Abu Rashid said:


> [....] In this case I think it's better to translate, since God is a concept that exists in all languages. [....]
> 
> _I disagree with you Abu Rashid.. the word Allah is not exists in all languages, but the word *رب* and *إله* yes it does exist._
> _As Allah is a name of the muslims god._
> 
> [...] Actually it's usually translated as "praiseworthy", but I don't think that is the same thing. That's merely translating the meaning of the name. I don't think anyone introduces themself saying "Pleased to meet you, my name is praiseworthy". We're talking about translating the name for usage. Generally names are not translated between languages, because a name is a personal identifier, and changing it is confusing.
> 
> 
> [/SIZE][/FONT]


 
Good! so you don't see any Muslim would say: 
_oh the God help me_, and instead he would say: _My god help me,_ which means *ياربي* and this god has a name he will call him with and he would say: *يا الله* oh Allah! wouldn't he?

Ex. translate this: *الله ربي* ?? ---> Allah is my god.
and this too: *محمد نبيي* ?? ---> Mohammad is my prophet.

And this too: 
who is the Muslims god? Allah. ( so Allah is the name of the muslims god)

who is the Muslims prophet? Mohammad. ( so Mohammad is the name of Muslims prophet).

_So what is your source of your information? How can you say that Allah is not a name of Muslims god? from where did you get this information?_

And you said yourself that we can't translate names! can we? 



Aoyama said:


> This thread will evolve into an "ontological" debate ...
> But simply, my point was that if you use "God", you could also use its romance language equivalent (Deus, Dieu, Dio, Dios ...) which we know comes from Zeus. So here we clearly have a "pagan" or "polytheist" origin.
> As to the origin of Allah, yes, it comes from Canaanite and Hebrew "El" (and various other words developping from this root) basically meaning "idol" BUT (arguable) influenced by the word el/al meaning "above". You find the same concept in other languages, for example Japanese, where the word for God is "kami", which also means "above, on", "hair [above the head]" ...
> In short, I'd say Allah is Allah.


 
I don't care what is the origin of this word in Hebrew! I care about what I have in the Muslims book about their god.
In Quran the Muslims god name is _Allah_.

*Every one has his own god name, and so do Muslims : )*
*Allah says in His book:*
*  قل ادعوا الله أو ادعوا الرحمن أيا ما تدعوا فله الأسماء الحسنى*
*He told us to call Him with His name. *


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## Abu Rashid

moon-light,



> Good! so you don't see any Muslim would say:
> _oh the God help me_, and instead he would say:  _My god help me,_ which means *ياربي* and this god has a name  he will call him with and he would say: *يا الله* oh Allah!  wouldn't he?




English speaking Muslims do sometimes say "God help me" or "O my God" etc.

Again i re-iterate that ربّ does not mean god, it means "lord".




> Ex. translate this: *الله ربي* ?? ---> Allah is my god.



God is my lord.



> and this too: *محمد نبيي* ?? ---> Mohammad is my prophet.



Muhammad is my prophet, right... but there's a difference as I noted above because God is a concept known to all humans.



> _So what is your source of your information? How can you say that  Allah is not a name of Muslims god? from where did you get this  information?_


_

_Others may have said that, but I did not.


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## Josh_

the-moon-light said:


> Well , here we are not talking about your  habit Josh, but about what is correct.


What is correct?


> I disagree with you that الله is إله with an article diffintion! from  where did you get this information?


From my knowledge of Arabic.   

I know there is a lot of theology and emotion tied into this  word, but this is purely a linguistic forum, and in my discussions here,  I try to adhere to that rule as closely as possible.  So, all religion  aside, from a purely linguistic point of view, it is patently obvious to  me that الله is just the word إله with the إ dropped and the  definite article ال attached to it.  Where else could it have come from?   It makes sense -- إله means god, so adding the definite article it means  "the God," separating this one out from the rest. 

In the  dictionaries I have, including in the version of the Lisan online, the  word is listed under the root ء-ل-ه. 


> Let see what Lissanu Al3arb says:
> لأَزهري: قال الليث بلغنا أَن اسم الله الأَكبر هو الله  لا إله إلاَّ هو وحده .
> so Allah is a name of Muslims God.
> 
> ما ذكره الجوهري من قولهم الإلَهُ، لأَن اسم الله لا  يجوز فيه الإلَهُ، ولا يكون إلا محذوف الهمزة، تَفَرَّد  سبحانه بهذا الاسم لا يشركه فيه غيره، فإذا قيل الإلاه انطلق على  الله سبحانه وعلى ما يعبد من الأَصنام، وإذا قلت الله لم  ينطلق إلا عليه سبحانه وتعالى، ولهذا جاز أَن ينادي اسم الله، وفيه  لام التعريف وتقطع همزته، فيقال يا ألله، ولا يجوز يالإلهُ على وجه من  الوجوه، مقطوعة همزته ولا موصولة،


Yes,  you quoted the Lisan Al-Arab -- a part that appears way down on the page I might add.  Now, I imagine that "my knowledge of Arabic" is not an adequate or authoritative enough answer, so I offer some passages also from the Lisan, which, incidentally, appear before the larger passage you quoted:

وروى المنذري عن أَبي الهيثم أَنه  سأَله عن اشتقاق اسم الله  تعالى في اللغة فقال: كان حقه إلاهٌ، أُدخلت الأَلف واللام تعريفاً، فقيل  أَلإلاهُ، ثم حذفت العرب الهمزة استثقالاً لها، فلما تركوا الهمزة حَوَّلوا  كسرتها في اللام التي هي لام التعريف، وذهبت الهمزة أَصلاً فقالوا  أَلِلاهٌ، فحرَّكوا لام التعريف التي لا تكون إلاَّ ساكنة، ثم التقى لامان  متحركتان فأَدغموا الأُولى في الثانية، فقالوا الله،



...and:

والله أَصله إلاهٌ، على فِعالٍ  بمعنى مفعول، لأَنه مأَلُوه أَي معبود، كقولنا إمامٌ فِعَالٌ بمعنى مَفْعول  لأَنه مُؤْتَمّ به، فلما أُدخلت عليه الأَلف واللام حذفت الهمزة تخفيفاً  لكثرته في الكلام، ولو كانتا عوضاً منها لما اجتمعتا مع المعوَّض منه في  قولهم الإلاهُ،

Ibn Mandhour was a compiler, he compiled what others had  said, even when one person's words contradicted another's.

For anyone interested in the English, you can find it in Lane's lexicon here (on the left side click on the أ and then scroll down and click on the أله).



> so here it's clear that Allah  is a name that Allah told us in His book that His name is  Allah.


Again, this is a linguistic forum, not a theological one. From a theological standpoint if Allah is considered to be a proper name, that is fine.  

However, from a purely linguistic point of view, it is my contention that الله is just إله with the إ  removed and the definite article ال attached.  

That does not preclude the idea that the definite article could become an intrinsic and inseparable part  of the word (and that the word could become known as a proper name to refer to the one and only God).  Words often take on a life of their own.


> How can you translate this verse of Quran in English?
> 
> *يَا قَوْمِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ إِلَهٍ غَيْرُهُ)  (الأعراف:59). ...*
> *
> Can we say here: worship God, you have no god excpt Him?? or worship  Allah....??
> isn't clear that here Allah telling us about His name?*
> 
> Tell me your suggestions.


I would translate it "Oh people, worship God, you have no other god but him."

Note the use of the capital and lowercase g's.

Again, I reiterate, "God," with a capital G is what people use to refer to the one and only God, whereas "god" with a lowercase g is used to refer to god in a general fashion. "God" is definite without needing the definite article and is a proper noun.  In fact, if you ask many, if not all, Christians what the _name_ of their deity is, they will most likely say his _name_ is God. So, many think of it as a proper name.

So I see no reason why الله should not be translated as God. Thus, I will generally translate it as "God" unless I have a reason to use "Allah."


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## L.2

the-moon-light said:


> Good! so you don't see any Muslim would say:
> _oh the God help me_, and instead he would say: _My god help me,_ which means *ياربي* and this god has a name he will call him with and he would say: *يا الله* oh Allah! wouldn't he?
> 
> Ex. translate this: *الله ربي* ?? ---> Allah is my god.
> and this too: *محمد نبيي* ?? ---> Mohammad is my prophet.
> 
> And this too:
> who is the Muslims god? Allah. ( so Allah is the name of the muslims god)
> 
> who is the Muslims prophet? Mohammad. ( so Mohammad is the name of Muslims prophet).
> 
> _So what is your source of your information? How can you say that Allah is not a name of Muslims god? from where did you get this information?_
> 
> And you said yourself that we can't translate names! can we?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what is the origin of this word in Hebrew! I care about what I have in the Muslims book about their god.
> In Quran the Muslims god name is _Allah_.
> 
> *Every one has his own god name, and so do Muslims : )*
> *Allah says in His book:*
> *قل ادعوا الله أو ادعوا الرحمن أيا ما تدعوا فله الأسماء الحسنى*
> *He told us to call Him with His name. *


 

Moonlight, if 'Allah' is a noun that was widely known before Islam? and it exists in other Semitic languages, then how come it's the name of Muslims God?
Allah is not a name of a particular god, it's only a semetic noun means the God. if you go back to the history before Islam, or the era we call الجاهلية , you would find that the name of the Jews leader in Madina was Abdullah bin Saluul, he was not called AduEloh or AduGod but Abdullah though he was not a Muslim, Islam was not even found yet, he simply was an Arab. Also there were numerous Arab pagans in pre Islamic period who were called Abdullah, they were not Muslims but Arabs and you will find الله in many of قصائد العصر الجاهلي. Nowadays there are some Lebanese Christians whose their surname is Abdullah. they are not Muslims but Arabs.
In addition, اله is a masculine noun for god thus allah is a definite article+ a masculine noun. if we want to make a feminine I guess اللات will work and it means goddess, also we can make a plural as in Hebrew Elohim means gods, eloh=god and im=plural suffix.
As you see we can make a feminine and plural thus allah means 'the God' rather than a personal name of god.
I hope this clarifies.
yes رب means master like رب الأسرة، رب العمل، ربة البيت ...etc


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## Abu Rashid

> you would find that the name of the Jews leader in Madina was Abdullah  bin Saba


Small correction, i think you mean Abdullah bin Salaam (ra). Also prior to embracing Islam, his name was al-Husayn.


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## L.2

Abu Rashid said:


> Small correction, i think you mean Abdullah bin Salaam (ra). Also prior to embracing Islam, his name was al-Husayn.


 
I mean Abdullah bin Saluul, he never became a Muslim.
Abdullah ibn Salaam was a Jew from يهود بني قينقاع and his name was Abdullah even before his embracing, once the Prophet asked the Jews, who's Abdullah ibn Salaam? they said اعلمنا وابن أعلمنا واخيرنا وابن اخيرنا he asked them what if he became a Muslim? they said God forbid that......الخ الحديث
Also Jabir bin Abdullah and Abdullah bin Saba, all were Jews.


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## Faylasoof

I concur with L.2 that there were Jews (and Christians) in Arabia during the early Islamic period called Abdullah. Apart from the names of Jews mentioned above, there was Abdullah bin Wahab al-Kalbi, a Christian who was contemporaneous with the first-second generation of Muslims. So both Jews and Christians were using the name Abdullah, just like pagan Arabs were using names like Abdul3uzza etc. 

… and Abu Rashid, what I said in my above post (#17) was that Arabic names we are discussing are translatable i.e. they have a meaning which can be conveyed in another language not that we always do it. Just like _Abu Rashid_ has a meaning too, not that one would go around using the English translation of this to introduce oneself! In the case of  اللّة, which also has a meaning; that of is Al ال + ilaah إله = the god / deity = God , we do use the translation as many of us agree. Some of course are objecting on grounds that are purely theological.


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## dkarjala

Faylasoof said:


> In the case of  اللّة, which also has a meaning; that of is Al ال + ilaah إله = the god / deity = God , we do use the translation as many of us agree. Some of course are objecting on grounds that are purely theological.



You are right...unfortunately for the theological argument that it is 'just a name' the grammar of the word proves it wrong. In fact, the word _Allah_ *must* be from _al + 'ilaah_ for two reasons:

1) It takes definite, triptotic case endings (Allahu, Allaha, Allahi). If it was a normal, masculine Arab name, it would have nunation (Allahu*n*). If it was _mamnuu' min aS-Sarf_, it would only take two case endings (Allah*u, *Allah*a*).

2) The _'alif_ at the beginning is a _hamzat al-waSl_. That means the word is either: an imperative verb, a _maSdar_ of _'awzaan _7 - 14 or the definite article....has to be the last option, don't you think?

There is no other way to explain the above. We shouldn't be too flippant, though, because the name Allah is still odd in that it elides the initial _kasra_ (it's not _Alilaah_) and it has an emphatic-sounding _l_ even though there are no emphatic consonants around it.

Again, though, the grammatical properties of the word require that it is a definite, Arabic noun.

So the bottom line is that God with a big 'g' is the same thing as Allah with the ancient pronunciation. (i.e. not Al-ilaah). Shouldn't make a difference theologically. Like God in English, it is not JUST a noun and not JUST a name. In Arabic it is not JUST a noun but it also isn't treated like a name would be.


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## Sidjanga

I can hardly speak for myself (yet), but I'd like to quote a few sentences from a book I'm just reading, "Inside Islam", by Shaik Kadir, and share the way God/الله is generally referred to there:





> From the Quran, Muslims understand that Islam is neither a new religion nor introduced by Prophet Muhammad but one that has been delivered in developmental stages through the ages by numerous prophets of God with the theme "Serve God and eschew evil." (An-Nahl 16:36) Prophet Muhammad was chosen as the final prophet do deliver the final and perfected portion of God's Religion for mankind.
> When the Prophet delivered the final Revelation, God's Religion for mankind came to a completion, and God Himself named it "Islam" (Al-Maida 5:4) "Islam" means "Peace attained through total submission to God".


(Source: _Shaik Kadir Shaik Maideen: Inside Islam - 101 Questions and Answers.  Singapore: Times Editions-Marshall Cavendish, c2004.; p. 1_)

According to the author, the book was explicitely written for Muslims and non-Muslims.
.-.


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## nado92

wordreferencestar said:


> Salaamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatu.
> What is the best equivalent of "الله" in English?
> Allah or God?
> Please give good reasons.



*peace be on you too*

قال تعالي في سورة الكهف54‏:‏‏{‏‏وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ  أَكْثَرَ شَيْءٍ جَدَلًا}‏‏
*There is no god but Allah,
 in Arabic when we refer to The One ,we say (Allah) 
Either in English, you can ask  the people of this language*
لا أله الا الله في اللغة العربية عندما نشير الي الواحد الأحد نقول(الله) و لانقول الاله
اما في اللغة الانجليزية فيمكنك ان تسأل اهل هذه اللغة


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## nado92

Nadia_Taliba said:


> wa alaikum as salam warahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,
> 
> It depends who the *audience *is. If they are not Muslims God is best, as they most likely to have not heard of the Arabic word for God i.e. Allah.
> 
> However, if they are Muslim I think Allah is fine. I have read many Islamic texts in English, in which Allah is kept as Allah and not changed. It is used in English and can be found in the dictionary, therefore it is a proper noun. So it all depends on the audience in my opinion.


*I would like to greet you for this wonderful prescription.*
*Really, you could introduce it simply and clearly.
I agree with you.*


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## Sidjanga

nado92 said:


> *I would like to greet you for this wonderful prescription.*


Why would you want to differentiate depending on the audience? (which, in any case, will often enough be mixed or simply unknown)

As for "_If they are not Muslims God is best, as they most likely to have not  heard of the Arabic word for God i.e. Allah._" (quote originally from here), see the middle section of this post.


----------



## nado92

Sidjanga said:


> Why would you want to differentiate depending on the *audience*? (we should admit of differences. That is fact(which, in any case, will often enough be mixed or simply unknown)
> 
> As for "_If they *are **not Muslims **God* is best, as they most likely to have not  heard of the Arabic word for God i.e. Allah._" (quote originally from here), see the middle section of this post.


*I don't know what you want to prove.*
*The matter is simple and clear.
We ,the Muslims,say Allah, the others are free to say it as they like.*
*Any Muslim says ,God, instead of Allah is also free.But if he says God among a group of Muslims,99% of them will say, stop, say Allah not God.*
*so, with love again,let every one says it as he likes.If you want to know how the non Muslims say it,just ask them*.

*Also,You should know that everyone in this world know the word of <Allah>*


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## Sidjanga

nado92 said:


> *I don't know what you want to prove.*
> *The matter is simple and clear.
> We ,the Muslims,say Allah, the others are freer to say it as they like.*


I think you misunderstood me.  
I really don't want to "prove" anything - I just asked a question.

In this post of yours you seem to agree with Nadia_Taliba that, if the audience is non-Muslim, it's best to say "God", and that if the audience is Muslim, "Allah" is fine. 

So I simply wanted to know why you would choose different words _depending on the audience_ (not the speaker) - given that it is probably not _necessary _to use "God" towards non-Muslims, as the vast majority of people will be familiar with the word "Allah".

مع السلامة وليلة سعيدة


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## Abu Rashid

> So I simply wanted to know why you would choose different words _depending  on the audience_ (not the speaker) - given that it is probably not _necessary  _to use "God" towards non-Muslims, as the vast majority of people  will be familiar with the word "Allah".



Because the only reason a Muslim would use the word "God" is so non-Muslims understand the meaning properly.

Amongst fellow Muslims, there's no confusion, we all know what Allah means.


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## nado92

Sidjanga said:


> I think you misunderstood me.
> I really don't want to "prove" anything - I just asked a question.
> 
> In this post of yours you *seem *to agree with Nadia_Taliba that, if the audience is non-Muslim, it's best to say "God", and that if the audience is Muslim, "Allah" is fine.
> 
> So I simply wanted to know *why *you would choose different words _depending on the audience_ (not the speaker) - given
> مع السلامة وليلة سعيدة


*I don't only seem to agree with her,but I totally agree with her.*
*Can you make you use your heart to think with instead of your brain?
Of course not.They are different.No one can do that.
The same thing,Muslims including the Arabs and non Arabs use the holy word of 'Allah'*
.*so when you address them ,it is better to use this word.
If you are addressing non-Muslim ,use whatever you like.It is up to you.Just ask them,hi non Muslim,'what would you like me to call your God?*
صباح الخير


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## Sidjanga

nado92 said:


> *...*,'what would you like me to call your God?


You aren't suggesting there is more than one "God", or are you?  (I'm just asking because otherwise it wouldn't make sense to say "_your _god/God, and possibly "my/our god/God"; also, according to the general monotheistic concept of God, it's impossible to talk of different "*G*ods").

What I really don't understand is if "Allah" acutally _means_ something else to you than "God"; if it actually expresses a different concept, and if so, what concept, and where the difference actually lies.

All the Arabic teachers I've had so far - all Muslims, from different areas of the Arab(ic) world - (would) always say "God" when speaking English, or "Gott", respectively, when speaking German - in Muslim contexts or any other monotheistic context (classes were usually mixed, i.e. made up of Muslims and non-Muslims).
No one - neither our teachers nor any of the Muslim or any other participants in the course - ever questioned this usage or made any comment to clarify, for example, why they didn't say "Allah" when referring to God in a Muslim context.

Given that "God" is an English word and "Allah" an Arabic one - and that the normal thing would be to use the word the language you're just speaking natually provides for expressing the concept of "God", the impression one gets when hearing people say "Allah" even when speaking English (or any other langage that has its own word for "God") is that people saying "Allah" actually _mean _something else by this term, and that - to them - "God" is somehow appropriate a term to refer to the concept of الله in Arabic.

As for translating from Arabic into English, would you actually translate الله differently depending on if it's a Muslim, Christian or Jewish context - or perhaps a general monotheistic context not making reference to any particular religion?

Or the other way round, is الله - from your point of view - an appropriate term to use for me when speaking Arabic and referring to God? (and I don't say "my god/God" or something - which would suggest there's more than one ).


nado92 said:


> The same thing,Muslims including the Arabs and non Arabs use the holy word of 'Allah'


Nevertheless, الله is obviously not a "Muslim word" but an Arabic word, and is - as you know - generally used in Arabic - by Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike - to refer to (the one and only) "God".

Why would you thus use different words in Enlish when translating الله into this language?


I'm really looking forward to your answers, as I would really like to understand all this.


----------



## Faylasoof

Bringing  the discussion back to language and grammar!


dkarjala said:


> You are right...unfortunately for the theological argument that it is 'just a name' the grammar of the word proves it wrong. In fact, the word _Allah_ *must* be from _al + 'ilaah_ for two reasons:
> 
> 1) It takes definite, triptotic case endings (Allahu, Allaha, Allahi). If it was a normal, masculine Arab name, it would have nunation (Allahu*n*). If it was _mamnuu' min aS-Sarf_, it would only take two case endings (Allah*u, *Allah*a*).
> 
> 2) The _'alif_ at the beginning is a _hamzat al-waSl_. That means the word is either: an imperative verb, a _maSdar_ of _'awzaan _7 - 14 or the definite article....has to be the last option, don't you think?
> 
> There is no other way to explain the above. We shouldn't be too flippant, though, because the name Allah is still odd in that it elides the initial _kasra_ (it's not _Alilaah_) and it has an emphatic-sounding _l_ even though there are no emphatic consonants around it.



I tend to agree with both your arguments above (the triptotic nature of the word الله and hamzatul wasl on the initial ‘alif) and take them as being resonable & correct in the sense that we seem to be dealing with the definite article here. 

As to the presence of the emphatic <l>,  you raise an interesting point and yes we don’t have a good explanation for this.  However, I do recall a conversation I had many years ago with an Arabic scholar about this very issue. He opined that the assimilation of the initial kasra of _ilaah_ might be the very reason for the <l> becoming emphatic over time and that the initial pronunciation (in great antiquity) may actually have been _Al-ilaah_! 

Of course there is no way to prove (or disprove) this argument and I for the moment cannot recall another example like this - an oddity as you say.


----------



## Muwahid

the-moon-light said:


> Well , here we are not talking about your habit Josh, but about what is correct.
> 
> I disagree with you that الله is إله with an article diffintion! from where did you get this information?
> 
> Let see what Lissanu Al3arb says:
> لأَزهري: قال الليث بلغنا أَن اسم الله الأَكبر هو الله لا إله إلاَّ هو وحده .
> so Allah is a name of Muslims God.
> 
> ما ذكره الجوهري من قولهم الإلَهُ، لأَن اسم الله لا يجوز فيه الإلَهُ، ولا يكون إلا محذوف الهمزة، تَفَرَّد سبحانه بهذا الاسم لا يشركه فيه غيره، فإذا قيل الإلاه انطلق على الله سبحانه وعلى ما يعبد من الأَصنام، وإذا قلت الله لم ينطلق إلا عليه سبحانه وتعالى، ولهذا جاز أَن ينادي اسم الله، وفيه لام التعريف وتقطع همزته، فيقال يا ألله، ولا يجوز يالإلهُ على وجه من الوجوه، مقطوعة همزته ولا موصولة،
> so here it's clear that Allah is a name that Allah told us in His book that His name is Allah.
> 
> How can you translate this verse of Quran in English?
> 
> *يَا قَوْمِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ إِلَهٍ غَيْرُهُ) (الأعراف:59). ...*
> *
> Can we say here: worship God, you have no god excpt Him?? or worship Allah....??
> isn't clear that here Allah telling us about His name?*
> 
> Tell me your suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good! so you don't see any Muslim would say:
> _oh the God help me_, and instead he would say: _My god help me,_ which means *ياربي* and this god has a name he will call him with and he would say: *يا الله* oh Allah! wouldn't he?
> 
> Ex. translate this: *الله ربي* ?? ---> Allah is my god.
> and this too: *محمد نبيي* ?? ---> Mohammad is my prophet.
> 
> And this too:
> who is the Muslims god? Allah. ( so Allah is the name of the muslims god)
> 
> who is the Muslims prophet? Mohammad. ( so Mohammad is the name of Muslims prophet).
> 
> _So what is your source of your information? How can you say that Allah is not a name of Muslims god? from where did you get this information?_
> 
> And you said yourself that we can't translate names! can we?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what is the origin of this word in Hebrew! I care about what I have in the Muslims book about their god.
> In Quran the Muslims god name is _Allah_.
> 
> *Every one has his own god name, and so do Muslims : )*
> *Allah says in His book:*
> *  قل ادعوا الله أو ادعوا الرحمن أيا ما تدعوا فله الأسماء الحسنى*
> *He told us to call Him with His name. *




I'd just like to note here that Allah was used by the Makkan Pagans in pre-Islamic times, as this was also their supreme deity however they added more and more gods to him like al-lat and al-uzza. So I do believe Allah is ilah with the definite article, specifically because it was the supreme God of the pagan Arabs too.


----------



## clevermizo

Sidjanga said:


> Why would you want to differentiate depending on the audience? (which, in any case, will often enough be mixed or simply unknown)



Because in a Muslim context, Arabic terminology would take precedence I assume because Arabic is the language of the Qur'an. In religious Jewish contexts, God is referred to as "Hashem" and a large amount of other Hebrew vocabulary is used in ordinary conversation. There's a certain amount of connectedness to the liturgical language that is shared among members of the religion. It's not that saying Allah in a Muslim context means that Allah is a different God, but what it is doing is create the comfort of Arabic terminology which resonates more between Muslims than among non-Muslims.

Religions that have a ritual or liturgical language like Judaism and Islam (and some varieties of Christianity that still use Latin or Greek or OCS, etc.) place a lot of importance on the use of that language. So within a religious context, among Muslims, I think that there's something very natural about using the Arabic word Allah rather than using a non-Arabic word, even when speaking a different language primarily. This resonance or importance may even be more profound among non-Arabic speaking Muslims, because the Arabic language is really only used for them during prayer.

Now obviously Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians also use the world Allah to refer to God, but in those contexts the language itself is not perceived of as the vehicle of religion, the same way that Arabic in Islam is perceived. Arabic-speaking Jews still view Hebrew as the liturgical language, and and Arabic-speaking Christians may not have a liturgical language (other than Arabic), or they may view Greek or Aramaic as a liturgical language depending on church/region. My guess is they'd be more prone to use "God" in most contexts when speaking in English, because Arabic is not a sacred language for them in the same way that it is in Islam.


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## Josh_

dkarjala said:


> There is no other way to explain the above. We shouldn't be too flippant, though, because the name Allah is still odd in that it elides the initial _kasra_ (it's not _Alilaah_)


One explanation for this (said two different ways), found in the Lisan, is:


وروى المنذري عن أَبي الهيثم أَنه سأَله عن اشتقاق اسم الله تعالى في اللغة فقال: كان حقه إلاهٌ، أُدخلت الأَلف واللام تعريفاً، فقيل أَلإلاهُ، ثم حذفت العرب الهمزة استثقالاً لها، فلما تركوا الهمزة حَوَّلوا كسرتها في اللام التي هي لام التعريف، وذهبت الهمزة أَصلاً فقالوا أَلِلاهٌ، فحرَّكوا لام التعريف التي لا تكون إلاَّ ساكنة، ثم التقى لامان متحركتان فأَدغموا الأُولى في الثانية، فقالوا الله،

_"...and so it became al2ilaahu. Then the Arabs dropped the hamza because it was considered heavy (difficult to pronounce; didn't flow easily)..."_

...and:

والله أَصله إلاهٌ، على فِعالٍ بمعنى مفعول، لأَنه مأَلُوه أَي معبود، كقولنا إمامٌ فِعَالٌ بمعنى مَفْعول لأَنه مُؤْتَمّ به، فلما أُدخلت عليه الأَلف واللام حذفت الهمزة تخفيفاً لكثرته في الكلام، ولو كانتا عوضاً منها لما اجتمعتا مع المعوَّض منه في قولهم الإلاهُ،

_"...when the alif laam was added to it (ilaahun), the hamza was dropped to make it easy/easier (to pronounce), due to its frequency of use..."_ 



> and it has an emphatic-sounding _l_ even though there are no emphatic consonants around it.


Faylasoof gave an explanation for this which seems plausible. It might have somethinmg to do with the two laams being joined together. As a result of this tashdiid the letter was pronounced more emphatically. Who knows.


----------



## dkarjala

Josh_ said:


> One explanation for this (said two different ways), found in the Lisan, is:
> 
> 
> وروى المنذري عن أَبي الهيثم أَنه سأَله عن اشتقاق اسم الله تعالى في اللغة فقال: كان حقه إلاهٌ، أُدخلت الأَلف واللام تعريفاً، فقيل أَلإلاهُ، ثم حذفت العرب الهمزة استثقالاً لها، فلما تركوا الهمزة حَوَّلوا كسرتها في اللام التي هي لام التعريف، وذهبت الهمزة أَصلاً فقالوا أَلِلاهٌ، فحرَّكوا لام التعريف التي لا تكون إلاَّ ساكنة، ثم التقى لامان متحركتان فأَدغموا الأُولى في الثانية، فقالوا الله،
> 
> _"...and so it became al2ilaahu. then the Arabs dropped the hamza because it was considered heavy (difficult to pronounce; didn't flow easily)..."_
> 
> ...and:
> 
> والله أَصله إلاهٌ، على فِعالٍ بمعنى مفعول، لأَنه مأَلُوه أَي معبود، كقولنا إمامٌ فِعَالٌ بمعنى مَفْعول لأَنه مُؤْتَمّ به، فلما أُدخلت عليه الأَلف واللام حذفت الهمزة تخفيفاً لكثرته في الكلام، ولو كانتا عوضاً منها لما اجتمعتا مع المعوَّض منه في قولهم الإلاهُ،
> 
> _"...when the alif laam was added to it (ilaahun), the hamza was dropped to make it easy (to pronounce), due to its frequency of use..."_
> 
> Faylasoof gave an explanation for this which seems plausible. It might have somethinmg to do with the two laams being joined together. As a result of this tashdiid the letter was pronounced more emphatically. Who knows.



Yes, and these explanations make perfect sense. My point was, however, that since this doesn't happen in any other words (beginning with al-'i... or having a double laam) that the word is distinguished from the mundane phrase al-ilaahu and is thus still a name in the sense that it is a retention of a pronunciation that doesn't follow the rules of standard Arabic. 

In other words, it is a normal word in that it means 'the God' etymologically; it is a name in that it is a frozen, non-standard form that isn't used in phrases like "the god that the Egyptians called Set", where you certainly wouldn't say "Allahu alladhi..." etc.

So it's a hybrid, neither just a proper name nor just a phrase/word. Of course, the important thing is that the idea Allah in Arabic (with the missing kasra and emphatic l) and God  in English (with an uppercase G) can carry the exact same meaning in the mind.


----------



## Josh_

Yes, I agree.


----------



## Sidjanga

clevermizo said:


> This resonance or importance may even be more profound among non-Arabic speaking Muslims, because the Arabic language is really only used for them during prayer.


Thanks, clevermizo. I think I understand it a little better now.

In any case, I think that Muslims who choose to say or write “Allah” to refer to God in everyday life contexts in languages different from Arabic* should be aware that, by doing so, they obviously give the term a specifically “Muslim connotation” (which may be intended anyway), in particular if everyone else – Jews, Christians, and also many Muslims – generally use “God”, or the respective vernacular word, to refer to God in everyday life.
(The Jews I have come across around here, for example, have generally used the German word for “God” to refer to God when speaking German - orally or in writing, also in Jewish newspapers and clearly Jewish cotexts (Gott), though often like this: G'tt, or this: G~tt).

So if you grow up in a (basically) non-Arabic speaking environment and are used to hearing and reading the term “Allah” in Muslim contexts only – and not infrequently in religiously not particularly tolerant contexts – you do end up getting the impression that “Allah” refers to something else than ‘just’ “God”. In any case, “Allah” ends up acquiring a “Muslim declaration of faith” connotation.

And people may say that’s “my problem" or "our problem”, but I don’t think I’m the only non-Muslim learner of Arabic who finds it difficult to leave that connotation behind when hearing, reading and using themselves _in Arabic_ the word الله to mean “God” in a general sense.
_________________
*or any other language that may use the same word to  refer to God


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## Abu Rashid

*clevermizo,*



> Because in a Muslim context, Arabic terminology would take precedence I  assume because Arabic is the language of the Qur'an.


Excellent post, I think you nailed it.

When speaking with other Muslims in English we usually replace any religious (and even some non-religious terms/phrases) with the Arabic ones, usually to the degree we suspect the other person will understand. Words like imaan, yaqeen, salat, wudhu, masjid, barakah, hasanaat, jannah, jahannum etc. will replace their English equivalents in most Muslim-Muslim conversation. Along with the obvious phrases like alhamdulilah, insha'allah, jazak'allah khyr etc. This even will extend to phrases like kayfa haluk if it is known the other person has a bit of Arabic knowledge. It's also not uncommon to find Urdu speaking Muslims replacing words like prayer with namaz also, even when speaking to non-Urdu speaking Muslims.

*Sidjanga,*



> The Jews I have come across around here, for example,  have generally used the German word for “God” to refer to God when  speaking German




Well in the interactions I've had with Jews, I've noticed when conversing amongst themselves in English they usually use hashem in place of G-d, you can see this by reading a Jewish internet forum. They're probably not as liberal with it as Muslims, because I don't think there's as much of a connection to Hebrew amongst non-native Jews as there is to Arabic amongst non-native Arabic Muslims, generally speaking. Also because of the prohibition on pronouncing God's name in Hebrew, it's therefore considered better to use other names anyway, so using an English word is actually something conducive to their beliefs, and even then they often omit the middle letter so as not to even reproduce God's name in another language (when writing anyway).




> In any case, I think that Muslims who choose to say or write “Allah” to  refer to God in everyday life contexts in languages different from  Arabic* should be aware that, by doing so, they obviously give the term a  specifically “Muslim connotation” (which may be intended anyway), in  particular if everyone else – Jews, Christians, and also many Muslims –  generally use “God”, or the respective vernacular word, to refer to God  in everyday life.



As I mentioned above we replace many terms with their Arabic equivalents amongst ourselves, in our lectures, publications etc. Personally whenever conversing/corresponding with non-Muslims I normally use God, and often I find Christians will use the word Allah in order to indicate they think our deity is different to theirs. I usually explain to them that actually Christians were using the cognate terms Elah, Alaha and Allah in Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic respectively long before the first Germanic speaking peoples even encountered Christianity, let alone began using Gott or God in a Christian context.

So I certainly agree with your point that usage of the term Allah without explanation will elicit certain perceptions in people, but the simple fact is Muslims amongst themselves will always be using Arabic terminology, which is ever-increasing btw. Just in the 12 years I've been a Muslim, I've noticed the usage of Arabic terminology amongst English-speaking Muslims increase dramatically. This is probably due to the fact more English-speaking Muslims today are studying Arabic, even if just to a basic level, and therefore are much more aware of common terminology.


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## Sidjanga

Thanks for your reply, Abu Rashid. Much appreciated.





Abu Rashid said:


> Personally whenever conversing/corresponding with non-Muslims I normally use God,...


Unfortunaltely - or not, I don't really know (any more) - many Muslims around here don't usually make that distinction. But I can obivously only speak from my own experience.





> ...and often I find Christians will use the word Allah in order to indicate they think our deity is different to theirs.


Well, there _are _reasons out there to get that impression,





the-moon-light said:


> who is the Muslims god? Allah. ( so Allah  is the name of the muslims  god)


 and I think it's relatively easy - not only, but in particular, for  people who aren't much involved in  language issues and such - to  actually end up believing it.


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## Sidjanga

wordreferencestar said:


> Please give good reasons.





nado92 said:


> Any Muslim says ,God, instead of Allah is also free.But if he says God among a group of Muslims,99% of them will say, stop, say Allah not God.


Hello Nado,

I'm not questioning what you're saying, and it's not my intention to change it if that's the way it is (it's not that I think I know better or something).

But there's still one thing I don't quite understand: Why? 

I of course understand that the Qur2aan is a Divine Book (the Final Revelation for Muslims), that it is written in Arabic and that, therefore, that language is generally of special importance to many or most, possibly all, Muslims.

But thinking in these linguistic terms, _I_ would probably have to refer to God by some Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek or at least Latin term, for which I don't see any reason, as I don't believe God depends on a certain language, much less on one specific word.

So my question is this: 
If, for whatever reason, one or more Muslims choose to generally say "God" (and not "Allah") while speaking English, even when talking with other Muslims, what is the actual problem other Muslims perceive to be there? (other than that the Muslims who choose to say "God" would be deviating from what is obviously normal to most Muslims).

In other words: Let's say I were a Muslim (or converted to Islam), the Six Articles of Faith were the one and only basis of my faith, I observed the Five Pillars of Islam, and lived in accordance with the Qur2aan and the Sunnah. 
Would I then be a "bad Muslim" or even commit heresy or something if I only chose to always say "God" when speaking English? (or any other vernacular word for God the respective language I'm speaking at a given moment provides; simply because that's the word that language generally uses for referring to God, and I maybe don't see a good reason to say anything else when speaking it; see the second last main paragraph above).

*In short*:
Do the Qur2aan or the Hadith anywhere say that you should not _call _God anything but "Allah", no matter what language you may be speaking?
..


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## Mahaodeh

In short, no you do not. I have never heard any scholar or read anywhere that you _must_ say Allah. I've only hear arguments saying that it's _better_ to say Allah - which implies that it was _good_ to use other words too.


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## Sidjanga

Thanks for your reply, Maha.

And may I ask what those arguments say as to why it is _better _to say "Allah" even when communicating in English or another language that has its own word for God?


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## Mahaodeh

The arguments or course are not related to the other of the 99 names of God in Islam, they are just in contrast to using the non-Semitic names (God, Deios...etc.). The reasons mostly revolve around "this is what God chose to use", "this is the word he preferred to use even in previous books" (referring to the Semitic names used in the Bible and the Torah), "Arabic was chosen as the language of the Quran, so it's best to avoid other languages" and of course "some of the other names actually refer to pagan deities". It basically revolves around the importance of Arabic in Islam and the importance of using the exact same words as in the Quran.

Of course, most of these comments refer to a Muslim speaking to a Muslim.

I would quote some of these opinions, but that would be out of the scope of the forum I suppose. I think the point is clear.


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## Sidjanga

Mahaodeh said:


> "this is what God chose to  use",..."Arabic was chosen as the  language of the Quran, so it's best to avoid other languages"...


Hm. In the book _Inside Islam_, which I'm currently reading and already quoted somewhere further up this thread, it says under "The Quran and its features":





> The Quran, which is in Arabic, explains why it is in Arabic in the chapter Fussilat 41:44. Commenting on this verse, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, in his translation of the Quran, says: "It was most natural and reasonable that the Messenger (Prophet Muhammad) being Arab, the Message should be in his own tongue, that he might explain it in every detail ... Even though it was to be for the whole world, its initial exposition was thus to be in Arabic.


This sounds to me like the language aspect is an entirely practical one - and like, had the Prophet been Czech, for example, the "initial exposition of the Message" would have been in Czech (most certainly including the vernacular word for God).

And by extension, that for other people, not being Arabs - or Czechs  - it would be most natural and reasonable that the Message should be in their own tongue. And why would that exclude God?


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