# Desert



## ThomasK

What word do you use for areas like the Sahara, Kalahari, Gobi?  Can you use the same word for arid areas, where few things grow or can grow,areas without crops, without 'cultures', in a figurative sense? 

English : *desert *vs. *wasteland *(T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land))

Dutch: *woestijn *vs. (older) *woesternij *[waste], woeste gebieden [areas]


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## apmoy70

Greek: *έρημος** ('erimos, _f._) vs *ερημότοπος* (eri'motopos, _m._).
The TS Eliot's work _The Waste Lands_ has been translated as either «Ερημότοπος» or as «Έρμη Χώρα» ('ermi 'xora, _both feminine_). The Modern Greek adj. «έρμος, -η, -ο» ('ermos, _m._/'ermi, _f._/'ermo, _n._)--> _desert, waste_ derives from «έρημος» but is used in more artistic/poetic context.

**Έρημος* ('erimos, _f._)--> _desert_; Ancient Greek «ἐρῆμος» (ĕ'rēmŏs, _f._) or «ἔρημος» ('ĕrēmŏs, _f._)--> _desert lands, void parts, solitary_. PIE base *er-/*ere-, _to loose, split, separate_ (cognate to Lat. _rarus_, Eng./Fr. _rare_, Lith. _irti_, O.C.S. _oriti_).


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## ThomasK

Thanks! In the meantime I notice that someone translated "The Waste Land" as "Het barre land", *the barren land*, where 'bar(ren)' holds the same connotation as _desert_: incapable of producing (offspring or whatever).


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## jazyk

Portuguese/Italian: deserto.
Spanish: desierto.
French: désert.
Romanian: deșert.
Catalan: desert.


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## ThomasK

Great, but how about that 'barren place', the figurative meaning of desert, 'waste land' ? No special word? I find a title like *'(La) terre vaine'.*


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Thanks! In the meantime I notice that someone translated "The Waste Land" as "Het barre land", *the barren land*, where 'bar(ren)' holds the same connotation as _desert_: incapable of producing (offspring or whatever).


The barren land is «άγονη χώρα» ('aɣoni 'xora, _both feminine_); adj. «άγονος, -νη, -νο» ('aɣonos, _m._/'aɣoni, _f._/'aɣono, _n._)--> _unfruitful, sterile, barren_. Classical adj. «ἄγονος, -ος, -ον» ('ăgŏnŏs, _m.& f._/'ăgŏnŏn, _n._) meaning the same. Compound, privative prefix «α-» + masculine noun «γόνος» ('gŏnŏs)--> _that which is begotten, offspring_ (PIE base *gen-/*gon-/*gn-, _to produce, beget, be born_).
For persons or animals the barren, sterile one is «στείρος, -α, -ο» ('stiros, _m._/'stira, _f._/'stiro, _n._)--> _sterile, barren_. Classical adj. and noun «στεῖρος, στεῖρα, στεῖρον» ('steirŏs, _m._/'steiră, _f._/'steirŏn, _n._)--> _sterile, barren_. PIE base *ster-, _sterile, barren_; cf. Alb. _shtjerrë_ (the young cow), Lat. _sterilis_, Isl. _stirila_ (the barren cow).
I just remembered that there is also the folkish «στέρφος, στέρφα, στέρφο» ('sterfos, _m._/'sterfa, _f._/'sterfo, _n._). From the ancient adj. «στέριφος» ('stĕrīpʰŏs)--> _barren, unfruitful_


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## Saluton

Russian:
desert - пустыня (pust*y*nya)
wasteland - пустошь, пустырь, невозделанная земля, опустошённая земля, заброшенная земля (can be called пустыня only figuratively)

The words with the root -пуст- (pust) are related to the word пустой - empty. It's hard to tell which meaning of the root was original, though, - "empty" or "deserted", "wild".


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## ThomasK

That reminds me of the Hungarian word *puszta *(we write 'poesta'), some kind of steppe. And the root is probably just the same as our 'woest-', empty, indeed. I find a reference to pgm. _*wōsta-_, _*wōsti-_. Maybe that is derived from (same source: etymologiebank.nl):



> pie. _*(h1)ueh2-sto-_ (IEW 346), afgeleid van de wortel [derived from the root]  _*h1ueh2-_ ‘verlaten, opgeven, ophouden [desert/leave, give up, stop]’



@Apmoy: those are interesting words. Can you use them in a figurative sense?

EXTRA: I think in some languages 'desert' and its equivalent can refer to other areas than just Sahara, 'real' deserts. It can be interesting to point that out as well. With us, _woestijn _refers to the Sahara, exclusively, but what we can do is use it figuratively by adding 'stenen', stony (a stony desert)...


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## bibax

Czech/Slovak:
*poušť* (Old Czech púšč, Slovak *púšť* from _*pust-ja_) = desert (like Sahara, Gobi, etc.);
*pustina* (Slovak *pustatina*) = wasteland, barren land;
*spoušť* (Slovak *spúšť*) = devastation, havoc, desolation;

All from the adjective *pust, pusta, pusto* (m. f. n.) = desolate, deserted, barren;

Some verbs from the same root:
opustiti = to leave, to abandon (pass. part. opuštěn = abandoned, deserted, forsaken);
upustiti = to drop, to ditch, to relinquish;
pustošiti = to devastate, to ravage, to lay waste;


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## ThomasK

bibax said:


> Czech:
> All from the adjective *pust, pusta, pusto* (m. f. n.) = desolate, deserted, barren;
> 
> Some verbs from the same root:
> opustiti = to leave, to abandon (pass. part. opuštěn = abandoned, deserted, forsaken);
> upustiti = to drop, to ditch, to relinquish;
> pustošiti = to devastate, to ravage, to lay waste;


I see some interesting parallels indeed: 
- _déserter _in F, _dé/esertion_ in F/E
- _to waste_ perhaps in E, for to drop 
_- verwoesten _in D, devastate,


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## Saluton

bibax said:


> Some verbs from the same root:
> opustiti = to leave, to abandon (pass. part. opuštěn = abandoned, deserted, forsaken);
> upustiti = to drop, to ditch, to relinquish;
> pustošiti = to devastate, to ravage, to lay waste;


That's right, Russian also has those verbs:
опустошить (opustoshit') - to devastate
отпустить (otpustit'), выпустить (vypustit') - to let go, to release
опустить (opustit') - to lower, to omit
пропустить (propustit') - to omit, to skip
пустить (pustit') - let smb. in, set smth. going
запустить (zapustit') - to neglect, to throw, to launch


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## AutumnOwl

*Swedish:*
_Öde/ödemark_ - wasteland; today also meaning empty of people, or example ett öde hus - an empty house
Öken - desert, comes from öde
Both words have the same origin, from Greek (ev-ni-s) to Latin to German(ic) - to drain, to strip (?)
(The word öde have also another meaning, destiny, but that has a different origin)

_Karg_ would be the best Swedish word for barren when it comes to soil

Then there is _alvar_, an old Swedish word for a specific type of barren land, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvar


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## bibax

German brings nothing new:

*die Wüste* (Sandwüste) = desert;
*die Öde*, das Ödland = barren land;


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## er targyn

Turkic languages have *ChÖL*


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> ...
> @Apmoy: those are interesting words. Can you use them in a figurative sense?


Yes, we can use them in a figurative sense, e.g.
«Ἀγονη Γραμμή»
/'aɣoni ɣra'mi/
"Unprofitable shipping line"
«Άγονος Διαγωνισμός»
/'aɣonos ðiaɣoniz'mos/
"Failed competition of bids" 
«Στείρα αντιπαράθεση»
/'stira andipa'raθesi/
"barren dispute"
etc


ThomasK said:


> EXTRA: I think in some languages 'desert' and its equivalent can refer to other areas than just Sahara, 'real' deserts. It can be interesting to point that out as well. With us, _woestijn _refers to the Sahara, exclusively, but what we can do is use it figuratively by adding 'stenen', stony (a stony desert)...


Well, in Greek with «έρημος» we mostly refer to the deserts (i.e. «Έρημος Σαχάρα»/Sahara Desert, «Έρημος Γκόμπι»/Gobi Desert) but it can be used to describe something desolate also, e.g. «έρημοι δρόμοι» (desolate streets), «έρημο σπίτι» (desolate house).
 The degradation of land in drylands (desertification) is called «ερημοποίηση» (erimo'piisi, _f._), lit. "desert-making"


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## Gavril

Old English _westenn _"desert" looks like a probable cognate of Dutch _woestijn_​.

Finnish has at least two words for "desert":

_aavikko _(< _aava _"open, expansive, wide")
_autiomaa _(< _autio _"uninhabited, empty", based on an older Germanic cognate of Swedish _öde_, + _maa _"land")

"wasteland" in Finnish is _autiomaa _or _joutomaa _(< _jouto-_, which appears in other compounds like _joutoaika _"spare time" and _joutokäynti _"idle running", + _maa_)


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## ThomasK

Thanks, Gavril. I am a little surprised at _aavikko_, because the open, wide meaning is somehow strange to me. Sure it is correct, but isn't that the main meaning of the word 'plain'? Is there a link? I find it translated in my mini-mini-dictionary as desert (indeed), and steppe. My main question here is: I associate desert with sand, emptiness, barrenness, also with wide open spaces, but 'steppe' seems different from a desert. Maybe this is due to my own language that focuses on one aspect of the meaning of desert.


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## Csalrais

In Spanish, _The Waste Land_ was translated as _La tierra baldía_, *baldío/a* (used also as a noun) coming from _balda_ and this from Classical Arabic _bāṭilah, _something inane, according to RAE. The Waste Lands from _The Dark Tower_ series was translated the same way.

Another option is yermo, from Late Latin _eremus_ wich in turn comes from the same Greek word _ἔρημος_ mentioned above. The "Capital Wasteland" from Fallout 3 was translated as "Yermo Capital" in Spanish.


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## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, Gavril. I am a little surprised at _aavikko_, because the open, wide meaning is somehow strange to me. Sure it is correct, but isn't that the main meaning of the word 'plain'? Is there a link? I find it translated in my mini-mini-dictionary as desert (indeed), and steppe. My main question here is: I associate desert with sand, emptiness, barrenness, alos with wide open spaces, but 'steppe' seems different from a desert. maybe this is due to my own language that focuses on one aspect of the meaning of desert.



I think the main meaning of "plain" is "flatness": the word _plain_ itself is based on Latin _planus _"flat", and the Finnish word for a plain, _tasanko_, similarly comes from _tasa- _"flat, even". In the word _aavikko, _the meaning contributed by _aava _seems to be (native Finnish speakers can correct me on this) "wide-openness, emptiness".

Incidentally, Finnish has a specific word for "steppe", _aro_, which is thought to be part of the oldest stratum of vocabulary in the language (going back to proto-Finno-Ugric).


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## ThomasK

You're right for sure, flatness seems a major feature of deserts as well. And _joutimaa _is interesting as well: idleness as a feature, which is about the same as emptiness, I think...


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## mataripis

Tagalog: "ILANG"       dry land= Sa tuyong Ilang


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> Great, but how about that 'barren place', the figurative meaning of desert, 'waste land' ? No special word? I find a title like *'(La) terre vaine'.*


One possibility in Portuguese is *ermo*. I don't know the etymology of this word.


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## Agró

Outsider said:


> One possibility in Portuguese is *ermo*. I don't know the etymology of this word.


*yermo**, ma* (Spanish for "ermo")

 (Del lat. tardío _*eremus*,_ y este del gr. *ἔρημος*).
"lonely, desert, uninhabited..."


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