# Pronunciation: 熟悉 / 熟习



## Staarkali

Hello all,

all people that I met till now never use the pinyin recommended in the dictionary *shu2 xi1/shu2 xi2 *but use *shou2 xi4 *instead (no wonder they are shanghainese or non-shanghainese), which is kind of really different. Is it a habit or is there any specific rule for that?

furthermore should we say 我这里不太*熟悉 *or 我这里不太*熟习*?

Thanks in advance for casting some light on this problem


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## Geysere

熟习 means to be skillful in sth./have the knack of sth.  In this case you should not use this word.
As for 熟悉, you're right that the pinyin should be in 1st tone but almost everybody pronounce it as 4th tone... I guess it's a pandemic mispronounciation but we are already used to it


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## BODYholic

Staarkali said:


> furthermore should we say 我这里不太*熟悉 *or 我这里不太*熟习*?



It depends mainly what '这里' refers to.

我这里不太*熟悉  *- I am not too familiar with the immediate surrounding.

我这里不太*熟习* - (You point at the mathematical problems in your schoolwork and say to the teacher) I am still unsure how to solve this equation.


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## AVim

Staarkali said:


> Hello all,
> 
> all people that I met till now never use the pinyin recommended in the dictionary *shu2 xi1/shu2 xi2 *but use *shou2 xi4 *instead (no wonder they are shanghainese or non-shanghainese), which is kind of really different. Is it a habit or is there any specific rule for that?



In spoken language, some characters are pronounced as un-toned.
For your example, it should be *shou2 (or shu2)(二声) xi (轻声)*.

The *xi4* should be pronounced like '细', so I don't think pronouncing *熟悉* as *shou2 xi4 (熟, 细)* is appropriate.


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## Staarkali

thank you guys, most useful, as always!

so to sum up:
熟悉 when 
熟习 when talking 

熟悉 shou2 xi when talking, shu xi when using MSN, QQ or cell phones;

no input system recognise shou xi = 熟悉 when writing on computers, which is originally motivates the opening of this thread, I guess it is a general habit of language just like Geysere said, a bit like 一模一样 is yi mu yi yang when typing.


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## BODYholic

I usually pronounce 熟 as shu2. The only time that I pronounce it as shou is when I meant to say mature, ripe or cooked. Examples 饭熟(shou2)了, 成熟(shou2). But this is more like a personal style or habitual, rather than rules.


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## Jerry Chan

I notice that most Taiwanese say shou xi. (Heard of 最熟悉的陌生人?)
And I guess they're influencing the mainland through the mass media.


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## fmcti

Avim #4 is correct.
another example 谁 can be pronounced as Shui Shei.
Both are correct


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## Staarkali

Jerry Chan said:


> [...]And I guess they're influencing the mainland through the mass media.


Could it be the other way around?  just wondering !


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## samanthalee

Staarkali said:


> Could it be the other way around?  just wondering !


It is not impossible. 
The Taiwan dictionary also put 熟悉 as ㄕㄨˊ　ㄒ｜(hanyu pinyin: shu2 xi1)
So where did "shou2 xi1" come from?


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## fmcti

No need to track down where it come from. Just use whichever you prefer to use. I personally prefer Shou Xi. I feel it easier to pronounce than Shu Xi. No native speaker would care which one you use. But since you are a foreigner people might want to let you know there is another option. But that doesn't mean any one's better than the other one.


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## samanthalee

fmcti said:


> No need to track down where it come from.


Of course. But I'm just curious.  It's not a regional difference; it's a widespread phenomenon that influence almost all native speakers. And no dictionary seem to record what the native speakers are used to.

And it's a fact that there are currently 2 Mandarin standards, one maintained by China Mainland, another by Taiwan. But _both_ standards agree that the native speakers are "wrong".

Mandarin is an artificial language, based on Beijing dialect, created by committees. Everything the "native speakers" learnt from young must surely be based on one of the Mandarin standards maintained by the government(s).

How can so many native speakers deviate in the same manner from the standards?

It is indeed strange...


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## fmcti

I don't know which standard you referring to. But here is what I looked up in a dictionary:

熟  [shú, shóu]
[ 国标码:CAEC 部首:灬 笔画:15 笔顺:412515213544444 ]
skilled    ripe    familiar    done    cooked


Plus: it's also said on the dictionary the sound Shou is used in spoken language. (I was wondering if you don't speak out who knows what sound you intended to use in written. I guess it probably means it is used in a informal situation.)


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## Jerry Chan

Staarkali said:


> Could it be the other way around?  just wondering !



It's just my guess.
The truth is, many Taiwanese pop stars and TV programs are now really popular in mainland, and I think they're playing a role in moulding the language development. Imagine what impact it'll make when mainland audience hear 周杰倫 or 林志玲 say shou xi (熟悉), cheng shou (成熟).
In fact a few years ago the mainland authority banned TV hosts from "imitating Taiwanese tone".
It's definitely not the other way around.


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## shzhtznnh

Fancy nobody mentioned the sentences 我这里不太*熟悉 *or 我这里不太*熟习*?
Both sound a bit strange although we can't say they are wrong. Correct one is 我不太*熟悉这里, meaning I'm not familar with the surroundings here. "xi" is actually "untoned" (if it is in a sentence.In dictionary it is xi1) as AVim mentioned above. *
*Standard pronunciation is shu2. shou2 also makes sense though, considering the influcence of different dialect*


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## qui

普通话最常见的说法是.....

这儿我不太熟(shou2)

你的说法我都觉得很生硬....




Staarkali said:


> Hello all,
> 
> all people that I met till now never use the pinyin recommended in the dictionary *shu2 xi1/shu2 xi2 *but use *shou2 xi4 *instead (no wonder they are shanghainese or non-shanghainese), which is kind of really different. Is it a habit or is there any specific rule for that?
> 
> furthermore should we say 我这里不太*熟悉 *or 我这里不太*熟习*?
> 
> Thanks in advance for casting some light on this problem


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## BODYholic

shzhtznnh said:


> Fancy nobody mentioned the sentences 我这里不太*熟悉 *or 我这里不太*熟习*?
> Both sound a bit strange although we can't say they are wrong. Correct one is 我不太*熟悉这里, *



1. "这里" from the above sentence is undefined and therefore, the context is incomplete. As such, we have reasons to believe that it is used colloquially. In fact, I find the original version more natural than yours. Although I must say that it is grammatically incorrect. If it is in written form, it should be "我*对*这里不太熟悉". The particle is missing. However, since this is used in day-to-day conversation, I believe it can be readily understood by native speakers.

2. Your expression is grammatically correct but the sentence is incomplete. While the former sentence emphasizes on the fact of "这里", your suggestion places emphasis on "不太熟悉". It is almost second instinct that if you tell someone that your are not familiar with something, you give a reason. Hence, "我不太熟悉这里, 因为....".

3. I like qui's version, except that in Singapore, we rarely use "儿" in our conversation. Over here, "这里我不太熟" would be natural.

Hope this helps.


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## shzhtznnh

BODYholic said:


> If it is in written form, it should be "我*对*这里不太熟悉".
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
Yes! You are right on this point! But this is the only 'yes' I can give you relating to all you mentioned above.
All that you pointed out are not incorrect though, only that to say which sentence is 'natural' depends totally on where you live
Thank you very much to let me understand the geographical difference.


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