# EN: X et moi - me and X / X and I



## cranberry 2

Hi,
How do you translate "moi" when you are describing a photo (on facebook for example), without using any verb.

"Mes amis et moi"
--> My friends and me.
-->My friends and I

In the same way, would you write "Lucy, Jack, I and John" or "Lucy, Jack, me and John".

Likewise, "Moi en train de faire un gateau"
"I making a cake" or "Me making a cake"?

Thanks in advance


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## BlackEyedPeas

My friends and I.

Lucy, Jack, me and John.

Me making a cake.


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## FruitNinja

I would also probably say "me and my friends"


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## BlackEyedPeas

I also say "Me and my friends" BUT I have always been told that it is better to say "my friends and I" (although I am not sure why)


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## FruitNinja

I agree, it would be more common to hear "me and my friends" (at least where I'm from anyway! ) but it's more grammatically correct if you say "my friends and I"


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## cranberry 2

Ok, thank you!

But I don't really understand why we say "my friends and I" and "Lucy, Jack, John and me", the two sentences are very similar though...
Is there an explanation or is it just because it sounds better?

In the same situation do you say "Our friends and we"?
"Lucy, Jack, John and us"?


Thank you


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## FruitNinja

Hmmm, I would probably just say it sounds better that way  I would also say "Our friends and us" and "Lucy, Jack, John and us"


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## Meille

You say "I" if it's the subject (or part of the subject) of the verb: (My friends and) I had fun at the party.
Use "me" when it's (part of) the object of the verb: The party was fun for me (and my friends).
In your examples, the verb is implied: This is a photo of me and my friends. This is me making a cake.


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## sampat1running

I would use 'me' in all of those phrases, 'I' sounds odd to me, is a BE issue or is it just me? Other BE or AE speakers, what do you think?


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## david324

As Meille said, 'I' is correct if it's the subject, and although you do often hear people say 'my friend and me made a cake' etc, it's grammatically incorrect.


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## Keith Bradford

Over the past 100 years there has grown up an exaggerated preciousness over "me".

Many ignorant people would say, for instance: "_Me and John went to the pictures_"  instead of "_John and I went to the pictures_".  (Reason: put the other person first for politeness; use "I" as it is the subject of the verb.) Teachers would drum it into their pupils that "me" was wrong in such cases.

As a result, many people in an exaggerated effort to be polite, began to say, for instance: "_Did you see John and I_?"  This is just as wrong, because in this case "me" should be used as the object of the verb, not the subject.

Likewise with the pronoun when standing alone, without a verb. "_Who is in the photo? -- Me_" is perfectly correct (as it was for Shakespeare in Love's Labours Lost).  You'd never say "_Who is in the photo? -- He_" would you?   So, in a list: "_John, Mary, my friends and me_."  There is such a thing as being too precious.


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## FruitNinja

sampat1running said:


> I would use 'me' in all of those phrases, 'I' sounds odd to me, is a BE issue or is it just me? Other BE or AE speakers, what do you think?


 
I would also use "me", even though, technically it is gramatically incorrect. I've always been told to use "I", but it just sounds a bit strange to me.


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## Gérard Napalinex

Hullo Keith,
I feel very comfortable with your post (especially when you mention politeness), but still I wonder whether we can we reasonably recommend "Our friends and *we* went to the beach". Can you help on that too ?


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## BlackEyedPeas

That is incorrect. I think it would be better if you said : _We went with our friends to the beach _


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## jann

Gérard Napalinex said:


> whether we can we reasonably recommend "Our friends and *we* went to the beach". Can you help on that too ?


I honestly can't say whether or not it's grammatical, but we certainly can't recommend it!  

It sounds truly horrible... and more relevantly, it's 100% redundant.  We = any group including yourself.  You may enlarge an existing group "we" by adding as many friends as you like, but the grammatical subject that is used to represent this group will still just be "we".... and that's true regardless of whether the additional people are "your" friends, "his" friends, "their" friends, etc. 

If your prior context makes it clear that "we" is e.g., you and your wife, then you may certainly say something like "We went to the beach with our friends this weekend" or "Together with some friends, we rented a house at the shore."  But this extra information about friends joining the husband/wife group is adverbial in every case, not integrated into the subject.

EDIT: Thinking of other examples where you need a compound subject with "we"... actually, you will repeat the verb. "He knows, and we know, that this is not a good idea."


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## Keith Bradford

I'd certainly say "_We and our friends went to the beach_". Grammatically it's impeccable (we = subject of the verb). Maybe it's less polite to put "we" first, but I can't hear myself saying "_Our friends and we_..." whereas I'd certainly say "_My friends and I_..."

Why? Usage.


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## jann

Thanks, Keith, I hadn't thought of the inverted structure.  I don't think I would say "we and our friends went to the beach," because I would instead say "we went to the beach with our friends."

The more clearly distinct the two groups are (us v.s. them), the less trouble I have using a compound subject with "we" listed first:  we and our pets, we and our elected officials, we and our children, etc.


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## Keith Bradford

Coming back to the initial question, I can think of two good reasons for saying (e.g.) "Me making a cake"

This is the end of a sentence (understood) such as "(Here is a photo of) me making a cake" or more simply "(This is) me making a cake"
Alternatively, this is the emphatic pronoun "me" (compare the French "Qui est-ce ? -- Moi").  Nobody ever answers such a question with the single word "I".
Whichever reason you choose to give, no grammar rule has been broken.


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## Opium

Very interesting topic.
In french, it's the same, we would'nt say "moi et mes amis" which is very impolite, we would say "mes amis et moi".
But "our friends and we went to the beach" sounds really weird, doesn't it ?? I'd say "we went to the beach with our friends". But I am not an English native speaker


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## Shanon7

Bonjour !
Alors je voudrais savoir comment on traduit en français des phrases du type "untel et moi" en anglais. 
Ex : "ma mère et moi avons mangé", je sais qu'en français on met l'autre avant soi, mais est-ce pareil en anglais ? Est-ce qu'on doit traduire "my mother and I" or "me/I and my mother" ?

Merci !


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## Kelly B

Comme sujet :  _Person X and I _did xyz.
Comme objet, c'est le contraire : this happened to _me and my mother _[object indirect]_, _someone gave _me and my mother_ this thing [objet direct].
On voit assez souvent _other person and I_ employé comme objet, p. ex. this happened to _other person and I._  C'est incorrect.


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## Shanon7

Oh ok merci !!


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## Momerath

Opium said:


> In french, it's the same, we would'nt say "moi et mes amis" which is very impolite, we would say "mes amis et moi".



In English "me and my friends" sounds perfectly modest and polite. The stress is on _my friends_*. *and therefore, despite the word order, there is no sense that you are giving greater prominence to yourself (_me_) than to them.


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## kiwismightfly

*I *and *me *have different uses within a sentence, just like in French. *I *is followed by a verb: *I *go, *I *run, *I *have, *I *want. *Me* follows a preposition: For *me, *to *me, *beside *me, *over *me. 
*
To say: "me go to the supermarket" is grammatically incorrect, and sounds childish. 
Likewise; "towards I" makes no sense. 

If there are more people, it correctly becomes: we go, we run, we have, we want OR (name) and* I* go, (name) and *I* run, (name) and *I* have, (name) and *I* want. 
Note: When there are multiple people, as in french, use the plural verb form.
You and I are =we are. Jack and Jill are =they are. 

The plural of *me* is *us*. For *us*, to *us*, beside *us*, over *us*. 

*Je* = *I. Moi/me =me. *


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## Gemsh

cranberry 2 said:


> How do you translate "moi" when you are describing a photo (on facebook for example), without using any verb.
> 
> "Mes amis et moi"
> --> My friends and me.
> -->My friends and I
> 
> In the same way, would you write "Lucy, Jack, I and John" or "Lucy, Jack, me and John".
> 
> Likewise, "Moi en train de faire un gateau"
> "I making a cake" or "Me making a cake"?


Hello Cranberry 2,

I once heard that the best way to know is to formulate the sentence as if you were the only person in the sentence and it's therefore easier to choose the subject or object pronoun. For example, "I went to the beach" becomes: "John and I went to the beach"; "Mum made the cake for me" becomes: "Mum made the cake for John and me". I don't know if this helps.


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