# no culture in cultural discussions



## TimeHP

Hi all.
I've noticed that in cultural discussion we can't discuss literature, film, sports, music, television, etc...
Some of the main theme of culture are banned.
Why?
One explanations I read was:
_'there are a lot of fora devoted to sports, books, music and so on on the web'._
Ok. 
But there a lot of fora for jokes, funny mistakes, habits, politics and so on.
Why can't we discuss culture in cultural discussions?

No polemics meant. 
Many thanks.
Ciao


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## jester.

I'm with you, TimeHP, especially since literature is a vital part of language learning, in my opinion.


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## cuchuflete

Jester:  Use the Search function to find the many threads that explain why this is not a literature forum.
The answer has not changed.  

The oversimplified answers to Time HP's questions are--

—Some topics inevitably lead to chat and battles, and we do not have enough masochists around who are willing to moderate threads on these topics.
—Read the Forum Guidelines.  These forums have a focus, and it doesn't include topics such as romance or sports.  Those who wish to write about those and other excluded topics have plenty of places in which they may do so, in the company of others who share those interests.  The lack of a football sub-forum here does not detract from the ability of WRF to pursue its stated mission, nor does it imply that football is not an interesting topic of discussion for many people.  The same is true of cooking and other topics excluded from the CD forum.

—The Cultural Discussions forum was created to allow for some conversations that would provide insights into the cultures of the members, when such topics do not comfortably fit in the language forums.  WR is not a general discussion chatboard, open to any and all topics.  There are thousands of such boards for those who wish to converse on any topic.


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## Bienvenidos

It seems like the Culture Forums are a kind of "mixing pot" of topics that don't fit in elsewhere. I don't frequent that forum much because it seems like everything is all over the place, and the conversations move way too fast for me!  

Honestly, it would be amazing to discuss literature because language is the basis for literature. But then again I wouldn't want CD to turn into a Book Club either. And "culture" really is all of the things you described TimeHP: film, movies, everything. I love discussing those topics, but I don't discuss them here. Which...I dunno. It's kind of like pick and choose--what ends up in CD in the end adds to the ambiance of the entire forums, and it seems to be working fine right now.  Sometimes it is a little too political for my taste, though.. I dunno. 

But it would be nice to see a "list" almost of what topics are allowed in CD, since I don't visit that forum much it would be nice to know (regulars of CD seem to have it down-pat by now  )

As always, cuchuflete has provided a great answer. Accordingly, I had to ask more questions!


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## cuchuflete

Always glad to evoke another question, Bienvenidos!

The sticky thread at the top of the CD menu gives some pretty clear indications "of what topics are allowed".

Cultural Discussions Guidelines - READ BEFORE POSTING!

Quoting from that simple message:



> The Cultural Discussions Forum provides a place for Word Reference members to share ideas about a wide variety of topics including language, history, current events, politics, education, social change, etc.





> Remember the Cultural Discussions Forum is basically just that: *a place for discussions*. Formulate questions that are _open-ended_ and _promote thought-provoking, insightful conversation_;



Those statements allow plenty of room for a huge variety of discussions.  In comparison, the exclusions are few, and are well served in other general and specialized forums.



> Please *do not* start threads
> -- that can be answered by a simple yes or no;
> -- that would promote chat (i.e. "what should I get my French boyfriend for his birthday?);
> -- that ask for *homework or research* help, or where to find a resource;
> -- that deal with romance, love, cooking or sports (there are thousands of other places for such discussions.)
> -- that discuss literature, film, music or television
> 
> d) Questions that invite lists (i.e. "favorites" such as music (including lyrics), books, movies, etc.), ask for advice, ask about literary/film analysis, or are a part of research or homework projects are beyond the scope of these forums.



In an average week, we close or remove about a dozen to two dozen threads that ask for homework help, request web resource links, ask "what language should I study?", or publish somebody's original literary masterpiece. Most of these are started by newbies, or by more experienced WR members who don't usually participate in CD forum conversations.  Other frequently deleted topics include requests for lists of favorite lyrics or music groups.  

If you would like to get a sense of the range of topics that more or less fit the scope of that forum, just scroll through three or four pages of the forum menu/index.  The variety is impressive.  

It's also worth noting that some threads are removed because the way a topic is presented initially is apt to lead to chat or lists, or something else inappropriate.  When that happens, the CD mods often work with the forero by PM to help rephrase the topic question in a more useful way, one that will invite interesting discussions.


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## Seana

Hi,

In July I have opened the thread titled Mozart mania. Without any doubt celebration of 250th anniversary of this genius birth was one of the most famous and important *cultural events* last year. I mentioned of this phenomenon because his brilliant music still influenced on many people around the world and at least it was worth one inconspicuous thread here.
I must admit I am fond of his music and I wanted to discuss why such an unfashionable music still attracts and enchants so many modern (sensitive) people of the 21 century . 
To be honest I wasn't even sure if this thread would arouse one interest in this topic.
Perhaps it would have been "died a natural death". But I have never learnt of it because my thread mania was deleted. 
I was very suprised and it is still not clear for me how could it be possible that Mozart Year 2006 doesn't fit within the scope of Cultural Discussion ?





			
				Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Sometimes it is a little too political for my taste, though..


Oh yes I agree with you.


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## emma42

Hello Seana!  I do sympathise.  I would love to talk about Mozart, but it is outside the scope of the Forums.  If we talked about Mozart Year and why his music endures, it would, indeed, open the floodgates to discussions about all and any artforms.


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## TimeHP

> but it is outside the scope of the Forums


 
...that is sharing ideas, if I'm not wrong.
Why speaking of music or books should mean having a long list of titles?
We could discuss, say, the influence of music in our life, or the quality of reading among adolescents, or the social importance of sports...

But maybe there were some bad examples of threads in past that forced you to ban literature, music, cinema, art, that are some of the best things we could discuss of. 
 
Ciao


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## Benjy

Because such threads never provoke interesting discussions and invariably end up turning into a big I-luuuuuuuuuuuurve-XYZ-fest. Or intellectual navel-gazing.

Discussions of literature in and of themselves will never have their place here. In depth literary or film analysis for its ownsake even if it is of a piece representative of a particular facet of a culture is *not* a disussion of the culture itself.

Example.

I might start the following thread:

There is lots of reality TV on in England. What do you think?

It would likely get closed.

I might start a more thought provoking thread about how a society's mania with watching rather than doing is usually the last phase it goes through before its empire crumbles  (the romans and the coloseum/barbaric games.. the greeks and theatre or whatever) and cite reality TV as an example of that happening in western society.

This thread would probably stay open.

Do you see the difference?


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## emma42

A good explanation, Benjy.


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## Bienvenidos

Okay  This might seem like an odd request, but could you give me an answer as to whether the following "threads" would be closed in CD or not:

Topic of Question 1: Literature
Question: It seems like a single piece of literature can lead to the massive uproar of an entire society (_Common Sense, 95 Theses_). What, in your opinion, garners such support for "uprise" during times of instability? In the modern era, could such a vast uproar sparked by literature occur? 

Topic of Question 2: Movies
Question: In recent years, Hollywood (and other foreign filmmakers) have focused on crises on the African continent (_The Interpreter, Hotel Rwanda, Blood Diamonds, etc._) Do you believe this increase in coverage has increased awareness and support for the continent?

 So is the key to keeping a thread open in CD "sneaking" around the "rule" or is the rule not an outright bid to deprive the forum of literature topics, but rather to weed-out pointless questions?

I'm very pensive today.


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## TimeHP

> Do you see the difference?


 
Yes, I do.
So maybe the word 'cultural' is inappropriate.


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## Benjy

TimeHP said:


> Yes, I do.
> So maybe the word 'cultural' is inappropriate.



No? 

_the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization; "the developing drug culture"; "the reason that the agency is doomed to inaction has something to do with the FBI culture"

__all the knowledge and values shared by a society

__the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group

_Do you see film or literature analysis in there?

An open-ended question likely to promote a discussion that is more than a list of favorites which touches on defintions of the word culture is likely to stay open in the forum.




Bienvenidos said:


> Okay  This might seem like an odd request, but could you give me an answer as to whether the following "threads" would be closed in CD or not:
> 
> Topic of Question 1: Literature
> Question: It seems like a single piece of literature can lead to the massive uproar of an entire society (_Common Sense, 95 Theses_). What, in your opinion, garners such support for "uprise" during times of instability? In the modern era, could such a vast uproar sparked by literature occur?
> 
> Topic of Question 2: Movies
> Question: In recent years, Hollywood (and other foreign filmmakers) have focused on crises on the African continent (_The Interpreter, Hotel Rwanda, Blood Diamonds, etc._) Do you believe this increase in coverage has increased awareness and support for the continent?
> 
> So is the key to keeping a thread open in CD "sneaking" around the "rule" or is the rule not an outright bid to deprive the forum of literature topics, but rather to weed-out pointless questions?
> 
> I'm very pensive today.




I would have no problem with questions that you have come up with. It's not about sneaking around the rule, as I think you have understood. The rules are there to block certain types of thread. Yours, whilst containing references to literature and film place them within a context that is both interesting and thought provoking and we would like to see more of them  They would not be discussion explicitly focused on (any one peice of) literature or film.


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## cuchuflete

You have, I assume, exaggerated mightily to make a point.

I would have no objection to either topic, although I might send a PM suggesting less hyperbole and inaccuracy in the opening lines.  "Vast uproar"?  Come now....For #2 I would ask, probably in the thread itself, for a clear definition of "support for the continent" and  for a little more explanation of how a handful of films might be (mis?)represented as  "focused on crises", but the topics in themselves are fine.  

The first thread is not about literature as an art form.  It is about the potential effects of a written work on a particular population.  That's a good discussion topic.

The second is about the effects of the collective of some recent films on public awareness  of and attention to a part of the world, and presumably some aspects of its condition.  It's not about any one film, actor or actress, or director's technique.   That's also perfectly good.   That said, the second thread would need to be very closely moderated, as we have had endless cases of threads such as this in which many foreros quickly slide into citing the names of their own favorite films and actors.



Bienvenidos said:


> Okay  This might seem like an odd request, but could you give me an answer as to whether the following "threads" would be closed in CD or not:
> 
> Topic of Question 1: Literature
> Question: It seems like a single piece of literature can lead to the massive uproar of an entire society (_Common Sense, 95 Theses_). What, in your opinion, garners such support for "uprise" during times of instability? In the modern era, could such a vast uproar sparked by literature occur?
> 
> Topic of Question 2: Movies
> Question: In recent years, Hollywood (and other foreign filmmakers) have focused on crises on the African continent (_The Interpreter, Hotel Rwanda, Blood Diamonds, etc._) Do you believe this increase in coverage has increased awareness and support for the continent?
> 
> So is the key to keeping a thread open in CD "sneaking" around the "rule" or is the rule not an outright bid to deprive the forum of literature topics, but rather to weed-out pointless questions?
> 
> I'm very pensive today.


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## ireney

A book discussion : "I love fantasy books; however fantasy books are a "new" thing in Greece and are considered as fairy-tales fit only for kids. How do you view fantasy books in your country?"

Now it's a nice cultural one, asking about books and other cultures. I want each and every one of you to use your crystal balls and tell me how this thread would develop.

Mine shows that it will become a list of favourite fantasy books


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## maxiogee

ireney said:


> A book discussion : "I love fantasy books; however fantasy books are a "new" thing in Greece and are considered as fairy-tales fit only for kids. How do you view fantasy books in your country?"
> 
> Now it's a nice cultural one, asking about books and other cultures. I want each and every one of you to use your crystal balls and tell me how this thread would develop.
> 
> Mine shows that it will become a list of favourite fantasy books



Mine shows that it will start out with an on-topic discussion about how different countries view fantasy books. Somebody, at some point, will assert that it is of no literary value. Then it will degenerate into the merits of the genre, and will become a slagging match as author A is held to be better than author Z, who is peddling recycled mythology dressed up as novel fiction, or something.


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## Seana

In my opinion these quickly given topics (perhaps given exclusively for the laboratory research on this trial here  ) are the best ones to discuss just in cultural discussions forum here. 


In spite of all your doubts what direction these discussions would lead, they are still discussions about the culture, far more than - 'Whether in your country it is possible to see girls/boys/cats with pink/green bags/socks/collars?'. 
I hope I am not secluded in my opinion that this conversation was needed for many of us.


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## TimeHP

> Mine shows that it will start out with an on-topic discussion about how different countries view fantasy books. Somebody, at some point, will assert that it is of no literary value. Then it will degenerate into the merits of the genre, and will become a slagging match as author A is held to be better than author Z, who is peddling recycled mythology dressed up as novel fiction, or something.


 
A bit like it always happens in other threads  ...



> Now it's a nice cultural one, asking about books and other cultures. I want each and every one of you to use your crystal balls and tell me how this thread would develop.


 
Mine:
1. The reluctance of English speaking publishers to translate fantasy books from other countries of the world. 
2. The censorship of some religions toward fantasy books 
3. The importance of fantasy for developing reading among adolescents (boys from 12 to 18 seem to be the worst readers)

I could go on with a long list (being books one of my fields). 
There could be a lot of interesting topics about music and cinema. 
Don't you think that sharing ideas about other countries' literature, music and cinema could be a great occasion? 

Why a long list of jokes can be 'cultural' and a discussion about, say, first American jazz singers, should be considered 


> a big I-luuuuuuuuuuuurve-XYZ-fest


?

Just my drop in the great sea of suggestions...
Ciao


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## Seana

TimeHP said:
			
		

> I could go on with a long list (being books one of my fields). There could be a lot of interesting topics about music and cinema.
> Don't you think that sharing ideas about other countries' literature, music and cinema could be a great occasion?


 
I do endorse it to the full extent.


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## Etcetera

ireney said:


> A book discussion : "I love fantasy books; however fantasy books are a "new" thing in Greece and are considered as fairy-tales fit only for kids. How do you view fantasy books in your country?"
> 
> Now it's a nice cultural one, asking about books and other cultures. I want each and every one of you to use your crystal balls and tell me how this thread would develop.
> 
> Mine shows that it will become a list of favourite fantasy books


Mine shows the same. 
Of course, it might be possible for the thread to stick to topic, but it would require special efforts from the moderators (and most sensitive members).


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## TimeHP

> it would require special efforts from the moderators (and most sensitive members)


Mm...
Special efforts for literature, music, art, cinema and easy job for politics, religion, social problems? 

To be honest, I think that some reasons you gave me are a bit forced.
I could use the same points for a lot of threads in cultural discussions.

But, of course, I understand mods. 
They try to avoid stupid posts. 
A doubt:
Don't you think that, as we say in Italy, you throw away the dirty water together with the baby in it?   
Ciao


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## Benjy

Threads that talk about the arts are far more susceptible to vacuous chat than those which speak of social issues/politics etc. This is  what experience has taught us. I for one am not going to go hunting though the forum to find examples of bad threads, I have revision to do 

It has been demonstated in this thread through some hypothetical subject suggestions that there are many ways of talking about the arts within a cultural framework that we would embrace with open arms. We are not going to have a book club here nor a film club. It's not going to happen. Stop looking for the fly in the ointement, la petite bête noire etc..


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## Etcetera

TimeHP said:


> Mm...
> Special efforts for literature, music, art, cinema and easy job for politics, religion, social problems?


Special efforts to watch over such discussions. The trouble with them is that people tend to express their personal opinions on books, movies, etc rather than trying to look at them from the cultural point of view.




> A doubt:
> Don't you think that, as we say in Italy, you throw away the dirty water together with the baby in it?
> Ciao


Frankly speaking, I do.


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## Nunty

Well, there are (at least) two definitions of culture. One is indeed things like music and literature, the sort of thing a Ministry of Culture deals with. The other is more like the definition used by anthropologists, whatever that it is. I imagine that it means something like "all the ways that people live together, and that give a given group of people a corporate identity. Something like that. I had assumed that the Cultural Discussions forum used the latter definition.


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## cuchuflete

First, and to be clear that this is not an opportunity to promote a change that just isn't going to happen,
please reread Benjy's last post.

Second, for those who want to talk about literature...

Have you looked for literary forums?  There are many, in many languages, all over the internet.  If you haven't looked yet, please do.  Then you will find places in which you may discuss literature, which is what you want to do, right?   If you have looked, surely you have found literary forums.  What is it that leads anyone to assume that the quality of literary discussion would be better in a language forum than in one devoted exclusively to literature? The limited evidence we have here is that attempts at discussion of literature by language students include a very few insightful comments, and a lot of superficial chat about best-sellers, and that literature is not discussed in terms of language at all!  Further, the attempts at discussion of other artistic forms in this forum have uniformly—without exception—quickly degenerated into collections of lists, declarations of who or what is 'best', and other superficial remarks.

Mozart's music is a wonderful topic.  Dramatic technique in the works of Calderón de la Barca is a wonderful topic.  The evolution of free-form Jazz since Coleman Hawkins recorded Body & Soul without playing the melody is a wonderful topic.  None of that means that these topics belong in WordReference.

It is amusing to observe the logic we bring to this discussion (and that we leave behind?):

A.
-WR forums are very good; I like them because they are xxxxxxxx.
-I will improve WR forums by making them not-xxxxxxxx.
B.
-Conversations in the CD forum on topics including films, literature, television, food, romance have, without exception, turned into superficial chat.
-We must allow conversation about these topics !

These topics are not excluded because there is anything inherently wrong with them.  These topics are excluded because there is something inherently wrong with us that prevents us from having serious, insightful conversations about them. 

Maybe it's time to open a CD thread to discuss why we, as foreros, are incapable of discussing such fine cultural topics without turning the conversations into chatboard style superficialities.


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## winklepicker

I just want to say that the entire content of this thread is, in my opinion, off-topic and outside the scope of the forums  .


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## Seana

Nun-Translator said:


> Well, there are (at least) two definitions of culture. One is indeed things like music and literature, the sort of thing a Ministry of Culture deals with. The other is more like the definition used by anthropologists, whatever that it is. I imagine that it means something like "all the ways that people live together, and that give a given group of people a corporate identity. Something like that. I had assumed that the Cultural Discussions forum used the latter definition.


 
Maybe this thread would be good opportunity to learn bit more about the definitions of culture.
*Culture* (from the Latin _cultura_ stemming from _colere_, meaning "to cultivate").
The culture is most often understood as the entirety of spiritual and material possessions of the society and  achievements of human thought. It is identified with the civilization. A culture is also what in the humane behaviour is taught unlike what is biologically inherited.

The main fields of the culture: 

Material culture: all products of the man, the technique, practical skills.
Spiritual culture: the knowledge, literature and the writing of all kinds, the art, in it: the plastic arts, the theatre, the music, the film as well as everything what belongs to products of the mind, e.g. philosophy.
Social Culture: beliefs, moral norms, the ideology, the participation in the cultural life; grammar and style: applying to communicating according to (in the given society) with linguistic norm.
Political culture: systems of values and patterns of behaviours (of politicians, the party) taking the participation in making the authority of the state or aspiring to this role.
Physical culture: the system of behaviours and action connected with the care of the physical development of people.
Fundamental differences appear, after watching what the term "culture" means for representatives of different theories:

for the archaeologist; "collection of material things found on the place of excavations, made of stone, metal, bone or wood things",
for the ethnographer; "not only material objects but also humane behaviours, so as songs, proverbs, fairy tales, myths, legends, fashions, customs, customs or ceremonies, appearing in the given region",
for the anthropologist; "the sphere of material objects, humane behaviours as well as institutions, activity economic, the play, the tongue and the religion",
for the psychologist; "set, to which above all individuals, his thoughts, emotions and reactions are accessing behaviours; the culture manifests itself through the set of rules and motives for proceedings, forms of the expression, orders of both bans, assessments and courts"
for the sociologist; "the separate area of the life and activities of human groups".
All my wisdom is from here.

Yeah so we all are right. 


Dear Mods, don't delete my post, please. I worked so hard.


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## emma42

Thanks, Seana.  Interesting.


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## cuchuflete

Thanks Seana,
I'll propose that we rename the forum, "Selected Cultural Discussions".  Then when people complain that they cannot use it to exchange holiday recipes, they will have to write an additional word, or at least SCD in place of CD.  That will dissuade all but the most serious malcontents.


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## fenixpollo

Nun-Translator said:


> I imagine that it means something like "all the ways that people live together, and that give a given group of people a corporate identity. Something like that. I had assumed that the Cultural Discussions forum used the latter definition.


My definition is seana's and the Sister's, and my original assumption about CD was the same as N-T's. 





cuchuflete said:


> First, and to be clear that this is not an opportunity to promote a change that just isn't going to happen, please reread Benjy's last post.   It is amusing to observe the logic we bring to this discussion (and that we leave behind?):  A.
> -WR forums are very good; I like them because they are xxxxxxxx.
> -I will improve WR forums by making them not-xxxxxxxx.


 I didn't see that same logic in the thread starter. I think Time was just trying to figure out the discrepancy between the title of the CD forum and the content of the forum.  Since my definition of "culture" is the same as his, I've also asked myself the same question.    





Benjy's last post said:


> It has been demonstated in this thread through some hypothetical subject suggestions that there are many ways of talking about the arts within a cultural framework that we would embrace with open arms. We are not going to have a book club here nor a film club. It's not going to happen. Stop looking for the fly in the ointement, la petite bête noire etc..


 Again, I don't think that the purpose of this thread was to criticize, but to ask for a clarification. You have information about closed threads that is unknown to non-mods, and this information provided the answer to the question. Thanks for sharing. 

The argument that "literature threads always devolve into chat" is sufficient to answer the question, "why not discuss literature in CD?". I wasn't aware of that fact, and I see your point. But trying to discount literature threads simply because there are other literature forums is an argument that could be applied to any of the topics in CD, except the ones that are strictly language-related. 





cuchuflete said:


> Have you looked for political forums?  There are many, in many languages, all over the internet.  If you haven't looked yet, please do.  Then you will find places in which you may discuss politics, which is what you want to do, right?   If you have looked, surely you have found political forums.  What is it that leads anyone to assume that the quality of political discussion would be better in a language forum than in one devoted exclusively to politics?


 You see how easy it is to make the same argument about the majority of thread topics in CD. 





cuchuflete said:


> Maybe it's time to open a CD thread to discuss why we, as foreros, are incapable of discussing such fine cultural topics without turning the conversations into chatboard style superficialities.


 I agree.


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## Benjy

fenixpollo said:


> ..Again, I don't think that the purpose of this thread was to criticize, but to ask for a clarification. You have information about closed threads that is unknown to non-mods, and this information provided the answer to the question. Thanks for sharing.



Point taken,  I guess my only defense is that while this exchange was taking place I was trying to wear the mod/busy student hat at the same time whilst in a praticularly grumpy mood. Never a good plan.


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## TimeHP

> Again, I don't think that the purpose of this thread was to criticize, but to ask for a clarification.


 
Thank you, fenixpollo. 
In my first post I wrote 'no polemics meant' because I know it's easy to be misunderstood.

About the threads in cultural discussions, well, I'm an optimistic person, so, despite the bad predictions of some mods, I keep on thinking that we could have very interesting discussions about art, music, sport, literature, etc.
Not worse, anyway, that everyday discussions...

Ciao


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## --Monty---

Maybe you could open another subforum, called "Vacuous and Superficial Chat". If there's one thing this site lacks, it's decent banter.


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## maxiogee

--Monty--- said:


> Maybe you could open another subforum, called "Vacuous and Superficial Chat". If there's one thing this site lacks, it's decent banter.



It's not _lacking_, it's _surplus to requirements_.

I would redirect you to this site which seems to meet your requirements.


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## Etcetera

--Monty--- said:


> Maybe you could open another subforum, called "Vacuous and Superficial Chat".


I'm not sure if WR really needs it. 
Several years ago I frequented a good Star Wars fan forum. It was pretty small and nice then, and I enjoyed participating in discussions there. There was a special subforum for offtopics, of course, but it wasn't really popular with forum members.
In the end, we all has come here to talk about _languages_. Not about everything there's in the world.


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## cuchuflete

--Monty--- said:


> Maybe you could open another subforum, called "Vacuous and Superficial Chat". If there's one thing this site lacks, it's decent banter.





Etcetera said:


> I'm not sure if WR really needs it.
> Several years ago I frequented a good Star Wars fan forum. It was pretty small and nice then, and I enjoyed participating in discussions there. There was a special subforum for offtopics, of course, but it wasn't really popular with forum members.
> In the end, we all has come here to talk about _languages_. Not about everything there's in the world.



The entire matter is off-topic.  There have been, from time to time, a few very vocal advocates of a chatboard here.  It will not happen.  We are not going to confuse a want with a need. Some people have opened chatboards and recruited WR members to go to them to talk about whatever they wanted, free from rules and moderators.  Those boards closed for lack of interest.

I don't know if Monty's remark was tongue-in-cheek, but there is plenty of good banter here, interspersed with serious conversation about language and other topics.


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## cuchuflete

Benjy said:


> Example.
> 
> I might start the following thread:
> 
> There is lots of reality TV on in England. What do you think?
> 
> It would likely get closed.
> 
> I might start a more thought provoking thread about how a society's mania with watching rather than doing is usually the last phase it goes through before its empire crumbles  (the romans and the coloseum/barbaric games.. the greeks and theatre or whatever) and cite reality TV as an example of that happening in western society.
> 
> This thread would probably stay open.
> 
> Do you see the difference?





maxiogee said:


> ... it *will start out* with an on-topic discussion about how different countries view ....





Benjy said:


> Threads that talk about the arts are far more susceptible to vacuous chat than those which speak of social issues/politics etc. This is  what experience has taught us.



Update:  Luis Masci opened a thoughtful thread about whether and why people watch a certain type of television program.  The CD mods were of mixed opinions about whether to leave it, and decided to give it a try.

One of the first posts (deleted, heavily edited, and usefully restored) contained a list of reality programs, and statements such as "I like..." and "my favorites are...".  The thread went on for a while, staying on topic, as Maxiogee has suggested, and then began to degenerate into such wonders as...

-a detailed review of a single program episode
-posts about ownership of modern appliances such as televisions
-statements of sociology and philosophy unrelated to the thread topic

The future of that thread...it's still open as I write this...is doubtful.  Why? because the mention of
a TV program or film or book seems to act as a magnet, pulling from many of us opinions of
individual programs, the names of the characters/stars/singers/performing groups, and other things easily found in tabloid newspapers and chat boards.  The 'cultural' topic is quickly left to the side.


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