# messieurs-dames



## dalbec3

Moderator note:
Multiple threads merged to create this one.
As in Bonjour, m'sieurs dames!


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## jjjbec

Well, the trouble is we don't really say it- don;t hear it when you go into shops and stuff.

Maybe just, good morning/ evening ladies and gentlemen


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## Geordie_Wilber

jjjbec said:


> Well, the trouble is we don't really say it- don;t hear it when you go into shops and stuff.
> 
> Maybe just, good morning/ evening ladies and gentlemen



Not in many shops it's true, but "ladies and gentlemen" is really only ever used in a public speaking or public performance setting...

"Good morning Sir, Madam" for one of each or "Good morning Sirs, Ladies" if more than one of each, although I've a feeling that a gentleman would greet the ladies first


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## dalbec3

In the US, we don't really say anything like this either, though we do have a tendency to greet and say good-bye to "everyone" so I may go with Hello, everyone! even though this doesn't have the same resonance (and history) of the French


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## orlando09

Yes, it's a cultural thing - the French use Monsieur and Madame a lot more than the equivalents are used in English. This literally means "Hello ladies and gentlemen" but no one would say that because it would sound odd and formal. As stated - good evening (etc) ladies and gentlemen wouldn't sound too out of place in a speech or from someone opening some sort of performance or other event, but that is the main context it would be used in. Otherwise, just the greeting without the ladies and gentlemen bit, or maybe [greeting] everyone.

It's an interesting phrase ; messieurs dames - I suppose it is a contraction of messieurs et mesdames


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## dalbec3

To Orlando 09 - I find it an interesting expression as well and one that is often an indication of class or region: I've seen books that instruct professionals and business people not to use this expression in big cities like Paris and Lyon, but of course, when travelling, I always hear it "en province" and it seems quite natural and friendly even


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## wildan1

If you went into a shop in the US and said _Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen!_ you would likely leave the impression that you were an airline flight attendant or a circus ringleader that forgot they were off the job!

Normally you go into a shop and just say, "Hi." (If that.)


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## orlando09

dalbec3 said:


> To Orlando 09 - I find it an interesting expression as well and one that is often an indication of class or region: I've seen books that instruct professionals and business people not to use this expression in big cities like Paris and Lyon, but of course, when travelling, I always hear it "en province" and it seems quite natural and friendly even


 
So in big cities it is deemed a somewhat unsophisticated and provincial turn of phrase? What are you supposed to say instead?


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## dalbec3

orlando09 said:


> So in big cities it is deemed a somewhat unsophisticated and provincial turn of phrase? What are you supposed to say instead?


 
this is my impression, that it is used more in the country than in France's big cities, like Paris and Lyon, though my conclusions are unscientific and really just reflect my own experience.  I tend to use Bonjour monsieur, madame or messieurs, mesdames (which could be considered the longer form of m'sieur dame or messieurs dames) in Paris

reference Polly Platt's book French or Foe?, a book for anglophone professionals living in France; she says (3rd edition, p. 34" "whatever you do, don't ever say messieursdames")

I'm sure she is correct for professionals in a work setting in Paris, but I feel she is a bit too rigid for "en province" where bonjour m'sieur dame is just fine in a shop with a shop keeper or when entering a small restaurant in a country hotel


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## Beryl Biro

Is this ever used in the singular i.e if you greet a couple in the street ( a man and a woman) would you ever use 'bonjour monsieur-dame' instead of having to say 'bonjour monsieur, bonjour madame' I don't think so but would like confirmation from a native speaker. Thanks!


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## Meille

Sure, you can say "Bonjour Madame, (ladies before gentlemen ) (short pause while you move your eyes to him) Monsieur.


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## Beryl Biro

Thanks for replying I understand what you are saying but can you ever abbreviate and contract in the singular ie Bonjour Monsieur-dame? Would you ever see this in written French? 

Also 'ladies and gentlemen' is generally translated as 'messieurs-dames' so it does not automatically follow that the ladies have to be addressed first or do you equally hear 'bonjour mesdames-messieurs' as often as 'bonjour messieurs-dames'??? This is getting more complicated?!


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## corkus

You can say 'Bonjour', 'Bonjour' implies a global salutation whatever the number can be ( a couple or so on) if you want to "cheat" you can say "Vous allez bien tous les deux ?" (are you both ok ?)


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## berrac

Bonjour Monsieur-dame (usually M'sieu-dame) ou Messieurs-dames is very, very common , specially in shops and restaurants.


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## Beryl Biro

Thanks Berrac this answers my question - do we see this: 'Monsieur-dame' in written French then as well as hearing it (well the abbreviated version M'sieu-dame) in spoken French? Or is it only common to spoken French? This 'puts this to bed' so to speak!


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## Meille

I definitely wouldn't say "Bonjour Monsieu-dame" to a couple in the street. I think "messieurs-dames" is a less formal way of saying "Ladies and gentlemen" which translates as "Mesdames *et* messieurs". And I don't think "messieurs-dames" is more common.

It took me so long to write my answer that I hadn't seen the other posts. Maybe we don't go out enough...


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## berrac

Non, je ne l'emploierais pas dans toutes les circonstances, mais on l'entend quand même à peu près partout. C'est sans doute du langage parlé, et probablement spécifique à des contextes de commerçant/client (quoique...), mais c'est vraiment très, très répandu


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## orlando09

I am not a native speaker, but as a speaker of French French I find "Bonjour Monsieur-dame" to sound very odd. I would suggest just "Bonjour" or Bonjour Monsieur, bonjour Madame" etc.

Also, while the expression Bonjour Messieurs-dames is used, it is slightly "populaire", I believe, the formal expression being Bonjour Mesdames et Messieurs.


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## Meille

Yay! I am not alone!


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## berrac

orlando09 said:


> I am not a native speaker, but as a speaker of French French I find "Bonjour Monsieur-dame" to sound very odd. I would suggest just "Bonjour" or Bonjour Monsieur, bonjour Madame" etc.
> 
> Also, while the expression Bonjour Messieurs-dames is used, it is slightly "populaire", I believe, the formal expression being Bonjour Mesdames et Messieurs.



Je n'ai jamais entendu un garçon de café dire "bonjour Mesdames et  Messieurs", mais bien "bonjour messieurs-dames". C'est très populaire,  en effet, mais quasiment généralisé dans les commerces, en France. Je ne  crois pas l'avoir entendu depuis que je suis à Montréal, en effet. Mais  ce n'est certainement pas inusité, et encore moins "odd".


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## orlando09

Merci, mais j'ai juste dit que le singulier "Bonjour Monsieur-dame" était odd... je ne pense pas que ça se dit en France?


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## Quaeitur

I add my votes to those saying that Monsieur-dame just doesn't exist, and isn't used in France. Only the plural form (Messieurs-dames) is used, even when addressing a single couple.


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## Glasguensis

Quaeitur said:


> I add my votes to those saying that Monsieur-dame just doesn't exist, and isn't used in France. Only the plural form (Messieurs-dames) is used, even when addressing a single couple.


 
Obviously as a native speaker your ear is more tuned, but it sounds like "monsieur-dame" to me, and however people are mentally spelling it, I can confirm that this expression IS commonly used when addressing a single couple. 

However, it is only used when speaking, as it is not good manners. If you go to a top hotel or restaurant they are trained to say "Bonjour Madame, Bonjour Monsieur". Since it is only ever used verbally, that would explain the monsieur/messieurs confusion, since we never see it written down.


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## redcedar

*Bonjour Messieurs-dames* 
Bonjour Mesdames et Messieurs 
Bonjour Madame, Bonjour Monsieur 
Madame, Monsieur, Bonjour 
Mesdames, Messieurs, je vous souhaite le bonjour 

Comme le dit Berrac, c'est populaire et très souvent utilisé dans les commerces ; j'ajoute que cela peut-être dit aussi sur un ton humoristique, moqueur, quelquefois sarcastique 

Je me souviens d'un épicier qui nous disait, à chaque fois qu'arrivait notre tour d'être servis : "Et pour ces Messieur-Dame, qu'est-ce que ce sera ?" 

Bonne journée à tous, Ladies and Gentlemen 

Redcedar


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## Surfin' Bird

Basically, we still use the plural form even when there is only one man and/or one woman.

Does that answer the original question?


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## redcedar

Bonjour Surfin'Bird et merci 

pour* Messieurs-dames*

Je ne savais pas que c'était seulement au pluriel et j'aurais pensé que l'épicier voyait double 

Redcedar


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## Glasguensis

Surfin' Bird said:


> Basically, we still use the plural form even when there is only one man and/*or* one woman.
> 
> Does that answer the original question?


 
It does, but if there were only one man *or* one woman you would just say Monsieur or Madame  (I know what you meant, just kidding )


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## diamondgeezer

If I were in a restaurant with a party of people (say 30), and I had to say a few words, could I get up and say the following:

"Messieurs-Dames, si je peux vous silencier pour un instant"

Or would Messieurs-Dames be too informal? And is the rest right! These people would be people who I had met before.

Thanks
Michael


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## Hikari42

"Messieurs-Dames" passe très bien même si on préfèrera "Mesdames Messieurs".

Par contre, "silencier" n'existe pas on dira donc:

"Mesdames messieurs, puis-je vous demander le silence un instant"

ou "Mesdames messieurs, puis-je vous demander une minute d'attention"


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## xtrasystole

_'Messieurs-Dames'_ is Ok but somewhat informal. 

I would suggest _'Mesdames et messieurs'_ instead, which is neutral and does well in formal and informal settings. 

Also, I agree with Hikari42's _'puis-je vous demander le silence un instant'_.


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## Nicklondon

To recap:
From my own experience, I hear Parisian/Montpellier (this is where I go mostly) waiters/shopkeepers say > bonjour m'sieu-dame / messieurs-dames.
At the Opera etc for public announcements you hear >  Bonsoir Mesdames et Messieurs ...
As for their written forms , I don't see why they would not appear as they are heard since they are an integral part of every-day French life.


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## njones0100

I realize this thread is a decade old but still will leave my input for those who find this thread in the future, as I did.

I'm an American who has spent the last couple of years in central France, and can confirm that « m'sieu-dame » is very, *very* common to hear from shopkeepers across France. It is an address given to couples. "Hello Mr. and Mrs.," only all slammed together au français.

My wife and I hear it whenever we walk into a shop together. People who aren't coupled or are in groups would probably never hear it.


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## guillaume de manzac m

Modern France simply says : "Bonjour!" --- and I have learnt to my cost that it is ESSENTIAL to start in any shop/ trade/ business with this word,

Every time I go in and make a request without that word, the reply is "Bonjour, monsieur!!!!" with a tone that reminds me I have forgotten the basic polite phrase.

Bonjour!  means simply "Hallo!" or"Hi!" but is essential as a starter.

2010 is positively last century - we are now in 2020.


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## berrac

guillaume de manzac m said:


> Modern France simply says : "Bonjour!" --- and I have learnt to my cost that it is ESSENTIAL to start in any shop/ trade/ business with this word,
> 
> Every time I go in and make a request without that word, the reply is "Bonjour, monsieur!!!!" with a tone that reminds me I have forgotten the basic polite phrase.
> 
> Bonjour!  means simply "Hallo!" or"Hi!" but is essential as a starter.
> 
> 2010 is positively last century - we are now in 2020.


I agree 100% Actually, I usually say "m'sieurs-dames" myself to the customers whenever I enter any store or café. And I truly mean it. I'm happy to let everyone know I aknowledge their presence and wish them to have a nice day.
But it is not only a matter of essential starters. I have always been quite shocked by the way most people in the US hang up the phone without saying "goodbye", "thank you" or "have a nice day" after talking to some stranger or the attendant of some company or service.
But you're right Guillaume, some shop attendants say "Bonjour Monsieur" as if they were sending you to the gallows. If "bonjours" could kill...


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## Ali Smith

The funny thing is today I heard a storekeeper use "messieurs-dames" to address one woman (as opposed to a couple). Actually, he might have said "monsieur-dame", but they sound the same to my ears. I know that the first two syllables of the former are pronounced *mécieu* while those of the latter are pronounced *mcieu*, but as a non-native speaker I find it hard to discern the difference when native speakers are talking to each other.


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## Ali Smith

Yes, sorry. That's what I meant. Let me change my post.


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## Glasguensis

It is almost certain that you have misunderstood - either the storekeeper thought that the woman was with a man, or he was addressing everyone.


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## itka

I agree with the posts I read, but let me add that if "messieurs-dames" or even "monsieur-dame" is very common, it is also very unformal and "bad french". 
You must understand it as "hello !" but never never say it, and remember it was the way uneducated persons spoke when they wanted to be "polite".
Nowadays, you can hear it a lot, but it remains a wrong way to greet someone.


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## Ali Smith

Glasguensis said:


> It is almost certain that you have misunderstood - either the storekeeper thought that the woman was with a man, or he was addressing everyone.


I am positive he was addressing just one person, and the person was female. He might have said "monsieur-dame" (instead of "messieurs-dames"). That would work, wouldn't it?


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## merquiades

I've heard clerks in stores say routinely "Hey.  How (are) you doing?"   After living in France it sounds very familiar to me, as most likely they have never seen me before in their entire life.   That's the way it.   Sir, madam, ladies and gentlemen are not used much anymore.


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## Glasguensis

Ali Smith said:


> I am positive he was addressing just one person, and the person was female. He might have said "monsieur-dame" (instead of "messieurs-dames"). That would work, wouldn't it?


It is a contraction of « Monsieur, Madame ». I don’t see how that would work with just one person. Did you see this in a video ?


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## Bezoard

It could happen as shopkeepers say it in a totally automatic way, without really noticing who enters. I have already experienced entering a shop with a male friend and being welcomed by "bonjour, M'sieur-dame", followed by a 'oh, sorry, bonjour Messieurs".


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## Keith Bradford

I heard this when entering a shop in drag.  I still don't know whether it was, as Bezoard says, totally automatic, or the shopkeeper's way of saying "Monsieur or as it may be madame"!


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## guillaume de manzac m

When I go into a shop in drag, they politely say "Bonjour, Mademoiselle!"


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