# win-win situation



## Nywoe

_Moderator note:
Threads merged_

Is there a French expression equivalent to "win-win situation" (meaning that there is no down-side to the solution)??

Thank you!!

N.


----------



## Brigitte

I can't think of something really like "win-win situation", but you can correctly say "tout le monde y gagne" or "tout le monde y trouve son compte" or "tout le monde est heureux/content".


----------



## OlivierG

In French, a "win-win situation" can be translated as "une situation à somme positive".


----------



## valerie

would you use this phrase, Olivier?


----------



## OlivierG

Yes, it's a common term of game theory (Invented by O.MORGENSTERN and J.VON NEUMAN in 1944 and published in "Theory of games and economic behavior "). In economical or political context, it's often used in the expression "jeu à somme positive", "plan à somme positive" or "conflit à somme positive". A search for "somme positive" in Google gives a whole bunch of answers.
One of the most relevant: http://rad2000.free.fr/glosdj05.htm
_Jeu à somme.  (/différences institutionnelles).(a) La théorie des jeux parle de jeux à somme nulle pour désigner toutes les situations de partage d’un gain total entre les participants. La somme est nulle quand ce qui est gagné par l’un (plus) est perdu par l’autre (moins). La représentation qui soutient ce vocabulaire est celle du gâteau à partager. Les acteurs ou joueurs sont supposés avoir un gâteau donné, connu, visible et mesurable devant eux. D’où l’image corrélative des parts de marché . Le marché est un gâteau que l’on se partage. A partir d’un partage actuel (ou théorique, comme un partage égal) toute augmentation de part pour l’un se fait au détriment de l’ensemble des autres. Il y a conservation de la somme .

(b) On pourrait d’ailleurs considérer que les jeux à somme positive et les jeux à somme négative sont aussi des jeux à somme. Avant de répartir le gâteau, on coopère pour accroître sa taille (cartel) ou on s’efforce de le détruire au plus vite (guerre, terre brûlée). Mais la somme est connue ou connaissable ou répartissable.[...] _


----------



## tchev

This "somme positive" (totally unknown to me) really sounds like technical jargon used in a game-expertise context.

I would really recommand "situation où tout le monde est gagnant" or "situation où il n'y a pas de perdant".


----------



## Jabote

Ou tout simplement "mutuellement bénéfique"


----------



## Cath.S.

Is it about a game, Nywoe, or about something else like a business deal?
I suggest "une situation où l'on est forcément gagnant" "vous serez forcément gagnant" "quoi qu'il arrive, vous êtes gagnant".
I quite like the latter, it sounds fairly natural, but tnen again it depends totally on the subject matter.


----------



## Jabote

How about "une situation gagnante pour tout le monde" ?


----------



## Cath.S.

L'office québécois de la langue française donne "gagnant-gagnant".
http://www.granddictionnaire.com
Je pense que ce mot est invariable, on dirait alors, "une situation gagnant-gagnant".


----------



## Cath.S.

Now that we know the context, I have another idea : 
_on gagne/on est gagnant sur tous les tableaux/sur les deux tableaux._


----------



## rayb

OlivierG said:
			
		

> In French, a "win-win situation" can be translated as "une situation à somme positive".


 
Only if there are 2 players.


----------



## gaer

OlivierG said:
			
		

> In French, a "win-win situation" can be translated as "une situation à somme positive".


That's about like saying, "A situation in which no one loses," right? (A situation with a positive result.)


----------



## Agnès E.

Bonjour Gaer 
Yes, it is. But I never heard it use in any everday situation (I must confess I never heard it used AT ALL ...)
I always translated "win-win" by : chacun y trouve son compte, chacun en sort gagnant.


----------



## sophievm

"gagnant-gagnant" s'utilise sans problème.


----------



## tobhogan

"Gagnant-gagnant" est passé dans la pratique tant en France qu'en Suisse romande. Merci aux Québecquois !


----------



## tilt

_Gagnant-gagnant_ is an expression I already heard and read in France, by opposition to _gagnant-perdant_. This is not at all a literal translation!


----------



## Tiga

Comment traduire la phrase suivante?:
...which should result in a win-win arrangement


----------



## tilt

I'd say _un arrangement/accord gagnant-gagnant.
_


----------



## klodaway

livvie said:


> You can correctly say "tout le monde y gagne" or "tout le monde y trouve son compte" or "tout le monde est heureux/content".



You are right, livvie, but this would not be suited for a professional context.

In fact, these phrases are used much more frequently in speech that in written form.

klod-


----------



## livvie

Thanks Klod,

I found gagnant-gagnant in the GDT as well but to be honest I've never really seen it used.  I've found that win-win was used regularly by french speakers but as you've said maybe not in a professional context.

There's always food for thought!!

Liv


----------



## Missrapunzel

tilt said:


> I'd say _un arrangement/accord gagnant-gagnant._


_Un accord gagnant-gagnant_ is my favourite. 
It will suit any professional context perfectly.


----------



## klodaway

livvie said:


> I found gagnant-gagnant in the GDT as well but to be honest I've never really seen it used.  I've found that win-win was used regularly by french speakers but as you've said maybe not in a professional context.




In French, "win-win" is widely used in management/C-level circles, but would not appear in communication with/to wider audiences.
On the other hand, "gagnant-gagnant" can be used in both situations.

klod-


----------



## tilt

klodaway said:


> In French, "win-win" is widely used in management/C-level circles, but would not appear in communication with/to wider audiences.
> On the other hand, "gagnant-gagnant" can be used in both situations.
> 
> klod-


_Gagnant-gagnant_ became much common in the French political speech, for a while.
Just google _gagnant-gagnant + Sarkozy_ or _Royal_!


----------



## edwingill

une formule dont tout le monde sort gagnant


----------



## harrythelm

Oui, Cropje, on en a déjà parlé, mais ce n'est pas très clair. Parfois, si je peux me permettre, c'est carrément faux.
Pour répondre à ta question, Nillah, il s'agit d'une situation où l'on se trouve face à plusieurs éventualités qui sont toutes, pour la personne ou le groupe de personnes en question, bénéfiques. (Dans cette expression, il n'est pas du tout question d'un autre camp qui va en profiter également. C'est plutôt, moi j'en sors gagnant, quoi qu'il arrive.)


----------



## Nillah

Merci beaucoup pour ton explication harrythelm! Elle est beaucoup plus compréhensive!


----------



## Erika28

bonjour à tous,

j'arrive après la bataille car ces fils datent de 2004 mais il n'y a pas que les canadiens qui disent "gagnant-gagnant", les français aussi!
ainsi que "tout le monde y trouve son compte/ y gagne".


----------



## excursus

La Confédération suisse, qui cherche aussi à éviter les anglicismes quand cela est possible préconise "gagnant-gagnant".
Excursus


----------



## Punky Zoé

Bonjour

"gagnant-gagnant" a notamment été popularisé en France lors des négociations professionnelles sur la durée du travail (dites "35H", mais qui s'en souvient encore ? ), c'est en quelque sorte la version optimiste ou positive du "donnant-donnant".


----------



## philippulus

Have a concrete example, and need to translate "a win-win solution" in the case of a combined technical and service offer.

"Gagnant-gagnant", it is a neologism, does not sound good, and has been used by politicians and business persons not having a real idea and profound knowledge of the french language.

"Tout le monde y gagne", is a bit simplistic and everyday language. It is more correct than the above, but does not sound very serious.

"Une solution à somme gagnante", well, that would mean that we tell the customer that we have played a good game, that at the end everybody is happy, including us, because we also earn our money. In my opinion a good way to prepare the customer to negociate still a better price.

"mutuellement bénéfique" is the one I prefer. It would mean that we are happy, but that does not understate for which reason. We could argue to be satisfied because we cause satisfaction of the customer, and our goal is to make good things. It sounds also more serious and is a better french. It is a typical, empathic business approach.

So for me, "une solution mutuellement bénéfique" is my fisrt and last choice.


----------



## Squiggle

_"Tout le monde y gagne", is a bit simplistic and everyday language. It is more correct than the above, but does not sound very serious.
_
*It's not necessarily the best translation philippulus but I don't see why you are criticising it as simplistic and everyday. You can't get more simplistic and everyday than win-win!*


----------



## Nicomon

philippulus said:


> "Gagnant-gagnant", it is a neologism, does not sound good, and has been used by politicians and business persons not having a real idea and profound knowledge of the French language.


 Well... this so called neologism is less and less one.  And "win-win solution" isn't exactly Shakespearian either 


> So for me, "une solution mutuellement bénéfique" is my fisrt and last choice.


 You may not like « _gagnant-gagnant_ », and it's your prerogative, but « _bénéfique _» wouldn't be my choice. 
I personally would replace this by _avantageuse_, or _profitable_.

But then if I had to translate  « _solution mutuellement avantageuse_ » to English... it would be _a mutually beneficial solution_.  Not _win-win_.

Register wise... _gagnant-gagnant_ works for me.

Edit : En passant... bienvenue sur le forum, philippulus


----------



## hirondelled'hiver

Je suis d'accord avec harrythelm, il arrive que cette expression soit employée pour signifier: tu t'en sors toujours bien (toujours gagnant)....
Tu tires toujours ton épingle du jeu!
(ex: it's always win-win with you)


----------



## Cath.S.

_Une situation où l'on gagne à tous les coups._

Mais il semble que deux acceptions différentes de cette expression coexistent et on la trouve employée dans le sens de
_situation gagnant-gagnant__[...]_.


----------

