# Biblical Hebrew: The meaning of vav-consecutive + stative prefix conjugation verbs



## Sharjeel72

Hi, when you have a vav-consecutive followed by a stative prefix conjugation verb, what is the meaning?

In Isaiah there is ויגבה יהוה צבאות במשפט והאל הקדוש נקדש בצדקה

What does this verb mean? Surely not that God was not high before and then he became high...? Clearly God does not change his state over time, does he?

Thanks, everyone.


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## Abaye

It's a usual case of waw consecutive and also usual biblical poetic structure: וַיִּשַּׁח אָדָם... וַיִּגְבַּהּ השם.


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## JAN SHAR

The vav-consecutive flips the verb around and makes it mean The LORD was high.


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## Haskol

Sharjeel72 said:


> What does this verb mean? Surely not that God was not high before and then he became high...? Clearly God does not change his state over time, does he?


I would not recommend mixing in theological views with textual or linguistic analysis. People of the past didn't necessarily have the same theological views that readers today have and even in cases where they might, these are poetic texts and they have wide poetic license to use flowery language and emotional imagery.

In this case, yes, it means "and he rose" and "he became holy".


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## Sharjeel72

Haskol said:


> I would not recommend mixing in theological views with textual or linguistic analysis. People of the past didn't necessarily have the same theological views that readers today have and even in cases where they might, these are poetic texts and they have wide poetic license to use flowery language and emotional imagery.
> 
> In this case, yes, it means "and he rose" and "he became holy".


Thank you Haskol, your perspective is fresh to me. I wasn't cognizant of the broader context. I hope this will help me in my further readings as well. Stay blessed.


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## Ali Smith

לָכֵ֗ן הִרְחִ֤יבָה שְּׁאוֹל֙ נַפְשָׁ֔הּ וּפָעֲרָ֥ה פִ֖יהָ לִבְלִי־חֹ֑ק וְיָרַ֨ד הֲדָרָ֧הּ וַהֲמוֹנָ֛הּ וּשְׁאוֹנָ֖הּ וְעָלֵ֥ז בָּֽהּ׃
וַיִּשַּׁ֥ח אָדָ֖ם וַיִּשְׁפַּל־אִ֑ישׁ וְעֵינֵ֥י גְבֹהִ֖ים תִּשְׁפַּֽלְנָה׃
וַיִּגְבַּ֛הּ יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת בַּמִּשְׁפָּ֑ט וְהָאֵל֙ הַקָּד֔וֹשׁ נִקְדָּ֖שׁ בִּצְדָקָֽה׃
וְרָע֥וּ כְבָשִׂ֖ים כְּדׇבְרָ֑ם וְחׇרְב֥וֹת מֵחִ֖ים גָּרִ֥ים יֹאכֵֽלוּ׃

(ישעיהו ה יד-יז)

14 Therefore the nether-world hath enlarged her desire, and opened her mouth without measure; and down goeth their glory, and their tumult, and their uproar, and he that rejoiceth among them.
15 And man is bowed down, and man is humbled, and the eyes of the lofty are humbled;
16 But the LORD of hosts is exalted through justice, and God the Holy One is sanctified through righteousness.
17 Then shall the lambs feed as in their pasture, and the waste places of the fat ones shall wanderers eat.

My dictionary says:

Nif'al שׁחח means 'be obliged to keep low, be obliged to cower; be prostrated, humbled'
Qal שׁפל means 'to be (become) humiliated, abased
Qal גבה means 'to be exalted'

What is interesting is we have three stative verbs and all of them are waw-retentive + PC (prefix conjugation). The question is: why would the author use waw-retentives? Did Y----- become exalted _after_ man became humbled and abased?


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## Drink

In _general_, the vav-consecutive does not specifically impart any active meaning on stative verbs. The wayyiqtol form could easily have a stative meaning of "and he was X".

In _this specific case_, the meanings are certainly still stative. However, it's important to note that the tenses are being used in an unusual way here (perhaps this is poetic language). Pay close attention to every verb in the passage you cite, and you'll see how it's unusual.


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## Sharjeel72

Waw-conversive always marks sequentiality, doesn’t it?


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## Drink

I wouldn't say always. It usually does, but there could be exceptions.


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## Ali Smith

Sharjeel72 said:


> Waw-conversive always marks sequentiality, doesn’t it?


While waw-retentive can mark sequentiality, this is most often the case in prose narrative, and not necessarily so in poetry. I think that the use of waw preposed to these verbs is foremost for the purpose of marking aspect, but that still leaves the question of why the author did not use waw-conj.+perfective, for which I have no answer.

לָכֵ֗ן הִרְחִ֤יבָה שְּׁאוֹל֙ נַפְשָׁ֔הּ וּפָעֲרָ֥ה פִ֖יהָ לִבְלִי־חֹ֑ק וְיָרַ֨ד הֲדָרָ֧הּ וַהֲמוֹנָ֛הּ וּשְׁאוֹנָ֖הּ וְעָלֵ֥ז בָּֽהּ׃
וַיִּשַּׁ֥ח אָדָ֖ם וַיִּשְׁפַּל־אִ֑ישׁ וְעֵינֵ֥י גְבֹהִ֖ים תִּשְׁפַּֽלְנָה׃
וַיִּגְבַּ֛הּ יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת בַּמִּשְׁפָּ֑ט וְהָאֵל֙ הַקָּד֔וֹשׁ נִקְדָּ֖שׁ בִּצְדָקָֽה׃
וְרָע֥וּ כְבָשִׂ֖ים כְּדׇבְרָ֑ם וְחׇרְב֥וֹת מֵחִ֖ים גָּרִ֥ים יֹאכֵֽלוּ׃


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> I think that the use of waw preposed to these verbs is foremost for the purpose of marking aspect,


You are a beginner who is just learning Hebrew. It makes no sense for you to have such confidence in these theories you've developed.


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## JAN SHAR

Ali, are you arguing that the first two verbs in vs. 15 reflect state rather than event?
‘Man1 is low1, man2 is low2’—what is the rhetorical function of the following marked imperfective? simply a state not marked for perfectivity??
Vs. 16 certainly shows parallelism of w-retentive of a stative verb with a Niphal, but there the latter is a participle.
I confess that I’m not quite sure how to work out the functional value of the forms in vs. 15, but I have not given the problem a lot of thought.


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## Ali Smith

Here is another stative prefix-conjugation verb preceded by waw-retentive:

וּכְכַלּוֹתָם הֵבִיאוּ לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ וִיהוֹיָדָע אֶת שְׁאָר הַכֶּסֶף וַיַּעֲשֵׂהוּ כֵלִים לְבֵית יְהוָה כְּלֵי שָׁרֵת וְהַעֲלוֹת וְכַפּוֹת וּכְלֵי זָהָב וָכָסֶף וַיִּהְיוּ מַעֲלִים עֹלוֹת בְּבֵית יְהוָה תָּמִיד כֹּל יְמֵי יְהוֹיָדָע.
וַיִּזְקַן יְהוֹיָדָע וַיִּשְׂבַּע יָמִים וַיָּמֹת בֶּן מֵאָה וּשְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה בְּמוֹתוֹ.
וַיִּקְבְּרֻהוּ בְעִיר דָּוִיד עִם הַמְּלָכִים כִּי עָשָׂה טוֹבָה בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וְעִם הָאֱלֹהִים וּבֵיתוֹ.
(דברי הימים ב כד יד)

It clearly means “Yehoyada became old and full of days and died.”

So, Sharjeel was probably correct in thinking that

וַיִּגְבַּה יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת בַּמִּשְׁפָּט וְהָאֵל הַקָּדוֹשׁ נִקְדָּשׁ בִּצְדָקָה.
(ישעיהו ה טז)

means

Y——- became high


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## Drink

There is no real proof here though. Both "was old" and "became old" are equally semantically plausible.


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## Ali Smith

Here is another stative prefix-conjugation verb preceded by waw-retentive:

וַתֹּ֣אמֶר שָׂרָ֔ה צְחֹ֕ק עָ֥שָׂה לִ֖י אֱלֹהִ֑ים כׇּל־הַשֹּׁמֵ֖עַ יִֽצְחַק־לִֽי׃
וַתֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֤י מִלֵּל֙ לְאַבְרָהָ֔ם הֵינִ֥יקָה בָנִ֖ים שָׂרָ֑ה כִּֽי־יָלַ֥דְתִּי בֵ֖ן לִזְקֻנָֽיו׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֥ל הַיֶּ֖לֶד וַיִּגָּמַ֑ל וַיַּ֤עַשׂ אַבְרָהָם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֣ה גָד֔וֹל בְּי֖וֹם הִגָּמֵ֥ל אֶת־יִצְחָֽק׃
וַתֵּ֨רֶא שָׂרָ֜ה אֶֽת־בֶּן־הָגָ֧ר הַמִּצְרִ֛ית אֲשֶׁר־יָלְדָ֥ה לְאַבְרָהָ֖ם מְצַחֵֽק׃
(בראשית כא ו-ט)

The verse clearly means "And (then) the child became big and (then) he was weaned and (then) Abraham held a big banquet on the day of the weaning of Isaac."


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## Drink

Yes, here it most likely means that. That doesn't mean it would always mean that.


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## Ali Smith

Here's another example:

וַתֹּ֧אמֶר לָ֣הּ בַּת־פַּרְעֹ֗ה הֵילִ֜יכִי אֶת־הַיֶּ֤לֶד הַזֶּה֙ וְהֵינִקִ֣הוּ לִ֔י וַאֲנִ֖י אֶתֵּ֣ן אֶת־שְׂכָרֵ֑ךְ וַתִּקַּ֧ח הָאִשָּׁ֛ה הַיֶּ֖לֶד וַתְּנִיקֵֽהוּ׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֣ל הַיֶּ֗לֶד וַתְּבִאֵ֙הוּ֙ לְבַת־פַּרְעֹ֔ה וַֽיְהִי־לָ֖הּ לְבֵ֑ן וַתִּקְרָ֤א שְׁמוֹ֙ מֹשֶׁ֔ה וַתֹּ֕אמֶר כִּ֥י מִן־הַמַּ֖יִם מְשִׁיתִֽהוּ׃
(שמות ב ח-י)

The two verses clearly mean:

And (then) Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Lead this child and suckle him for me and _I_ will give your wages." and (then) the woman took the child and (then) she suckled him and (then) the child grew up and (then) she brought him to the Pharaoh's daughter and (then) he became a son to her and (then) she named him "Moses" and (then) she said, "Because it was from the water that I drew him out."


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## JAN SHAR

You have only shown a handful of examples where the vav consecutive + stative prefix conjugation verb definitely shows that the state changed = X became Y. But can you generalize from these few examples?


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## Ali Smith

Here are two more:

רְבָבָ֗ה כְּצֶ֤מַח הַשָּׂדֶה֙ נְתַתִּ֔יךְ וַתִּרְבִּי֙ וַֽתִּגְדְּלִ֔י וַתָּבֹ֖אִי בַּעֲדִ֣י עֲדָיִ֑ים שָׁדַ֤יִם נָכֹ֙נוּ֙ וּשְׂעָרֵ֣ךְ צִמֵּ֔חַ וְאַ֖תְּ עֵרֹ֥ם וְעֶרְיָֽה׃
(יחזקאל טז ז)

I have given you a very great quantity like the sprouting of the field and (then) you became numerous and (then) you became big and (then) you entered into jewelry of jewelries. Breasts were firm and your hair grew abundantly and you are nakedness and bareness.

וְלָרָ֣שׁ אֵֽין־כֹּ֗ל כִּי֩ אִם־כִּבְשָׂ֨ה אַחַ֤ת קְטַנָּה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר קָנָ֔ה וַיְחַיֶּ֕הָ וַתִּגְדַּ֥ל עִמּ֛וֹ וְעִם־בָּנָ֖יו יַחְדָּ֑ו מִפִּתּ֨וֹ תֹאכַ֜ל וּמִכֹּס֤וֹ תִשְׁתֶּה֙ וּבְחֵיק֣וֹ תִשְׁכָּ֔ב וַתְּהִי־ל֖וֹ כְּבַֽת׃
(שמואל ב יב ג)

But the poor man had nothing except one small young ewe-lamb that he had bought and (then) he had let her live and (then) she became big together with him and with his sons. She would eat from his morsel and drink from his cup and lie in his bosom and (then) she was like a daughter to him.


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## JAN SHAR

I've noticed most of your examples contain גדל. Is this even a stative verb? How do you define a stative verb?


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## Ali Smith

Of course גדל in the qal binyan is a stative verb. A stative verb describes a state, and a state is a situation that does not require any effort to stay in. By contrast, when you have a dynamic situation, such as walking or eating, effort is required to stay in it. If one ceases to put any effort into walking or eating, one ceases to walk or eat, respectively. However, once someone or something becomes big or tall or old, it will remain in that situation without any effort on its or anyone else's part. Thus, גדל in the qal binyan is a stative verb. Here are some more examples:

וּמִן־הָאַחַ֣ת מֵהֶ֔ם יָצָ֥א קֶֽרֶן־אַחַ֖ת מִצְּעִירָ֑ה וַתִּגְדַּל־יֶ֛תֶר אֶל־הַנֶּ֥גֶב וְאֶל־הַמִּזְרָ֖ח וְאֶל־הַצֶּֽבִי׃
וַתִּגְדַּ֖ל עַד־צְבָ֣א הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַתַּפֵּ֥ל אַ֛רְצָה מִן־הַצָּבָ֥א וּמִן־הַכּוֹכָבִ֖ים וַֽתִּרְמְסֵֽם׃
(דניאל ח ט-י)

And out of one of them came one horn from a small one and (then) it became big excessively toward the south and toward the east and toward the beauty. And (then) it became big as far as the army of the sky and (then) it made some of the army and some of the stars fall earthward and (then) it trampled them.

וְאַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֞ן יָצָ֣א אָחִ֗יו וְיָד֤וֹ אֹחֶ֙זֶת֙ בַּעֲקֵ֣ב עֵשָׂ֔ו וַיִּקְרָ֥א שְׁמ֖וֹ יַעֲקֹ֑ב וְיִצְחָ֛ק בֶּן־שִׁשִּׁ֥ים שָׁנָ֖ה בְּלֶ֥דֶת אֹתָֽם׃
וַֽיִּגְדְּלוּ֙ הַנְּעָרִ֔ים וַיְהִ֣י עֵשָׂ֗ו אִ֛ישׁ יֹדֵ֥עַ צַ֖יִד אִ֣ישׁ שָׂדֶ֑ה וְיַעֲקֹב֙ אִ֣ישׁ תָּ֔ם יֹשֵׁ֖ב אֹהָלִֽים׃
(בראשית כה כו-כז)

And afterwards his brother came out while he was holding onto Esau's heel and (then) he was named Jacob, and Isaac was sixty years old when they were born. And (then) the young men became big and (then) Esau was a man who knew hunting, a man of the field, but Jacob was a civilized man who dwelled in tents.

וְיִפְתָּ֣ח הַגִּלְעָדִ֗י הָיָה֙ גִּבּ֣וֹר חַ֔יִל וְה֖וּא בֶּן־אִשָּׁ֣ה זוֹנָ֑ה וַיּ֥וֹלֶד גִּלְעָ֖ד אֶת־יִפְתָּֽח׃
וַתֵּ֧לֶד אֵֽשֶׁת־גִּלְעָ֛ד ל֖וֹ בָּנִ֑ים וַיִּגְדְּל֨וּ בְֽנֵי־הָאִשָּׁ֜ה וַיְגָרְשׁ֣וּ אֶת־יִפְתָּ֗ח וַיֹּ֤אמְרוּ לוֹ֙ לֹא־תִנְחַ֣ל בְּבֵית־אָבִ֔ינוּ כִּ֛י בֶּן־אִשָּׁ֥ה אַחֶ֖רֶת אָֽתָּה׃
(שופטים יא א-ב)

And Jephthah the Gileadite was a warrior but he was a prostitute's son and (then) Gilead begot Jephthah. And (then) Gilead's wife bore him sons and (then) the woman's sons became big and (then) they drove Jephthah out and (then) they said to him, "You will not have a property in our father's house because you are another woman's son."

וַתֹּ֣אמֶר שָׂרָ֔ה צְחֹ֕ק עָ֥שָׂה לִ֖י אֱלֹהִ֑ים כׇּל־הַשֹּׁמֵ֖עַ יִֽצְחַק־לִֽי׃
וַתֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֤י מִלֵּל֙ לְאַבְרָהָ֔ם הֵינִ֥יקָה בָנִ֖ים שָׂרָ֑ה כִּֽי־יָלַ֥דְתִּי בֵ֖ן לִזְקֻנָֽיו׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֥ל הַיֶּ֖לֶד וַיִּגָּמַ֑ל וַיַּ֤עַשׂ אַבְרָהָם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֣ה גָד֔וֹל בְּי֖וֹם הִגָּמֵ֥ל אֶת־יִצְחָֽק׃
(בראשית כא ו-ח)

And (then) Sarah said, "God has made laughter for me. Everyone who hears will laugh with me." And (then) she said, "Who would announce to Abraham that Sarah would suckle sons? For I have given birth to a son in his old age." And (then) the child became big and (then) he was weaned and (then) Abraham held a big banquet on the day of the weaning of Isaac.

וַיִּפְקַ֤ח אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־עֵינֶ֔יהָ וַתֵּ֖רֶא בְּאֵ֣ר מָ֑יִם וַתֵּ֜לֶךְ וַתְּמַלֵּ֤א אֶת־הַחֵ֙מֶת֙ מַ֔יִם וַתַּ֖שְׁקְ אֶת־הַנָּֽעַר׃
וַיְהִ֧י אֱלֹהִ֛ים אֶת־הַנַּ֖עַר וַיִּגְדָּ֑ל וַיֵּ֙שֶׁב֙ בַּמִּדְבָּ֔ר וַיְהִ֖י רֹבֶ֥ה קַשָּֽׁת׃
(בראשית כא יט-כ)

And (then) God opened her eyes and (then) she saw a well of underground water and (then) she went and (then) she filled the waterskin with water and (then) she gave drink to the boy. And (then) God was with the boy and (then) he became big and (then) he dwelled in the desert and (then) he became, growing up, an archer.

וַיֹּאמַ֑ר עֶ֥בֶד אַבְרָהָ֖ם אָנֹֽכִי׃
וַיהֹוָ֞ה בֵּרַ֧ךְ אֶת־אֲדֹנִ֛י מְאֹ֖ד וַיִּגְדָּ֑ל וַיִּתֶּן־ל֞וֹ צֹ֤אן וּבָקָר֙ וְכֶ֣סֶף וְזָהָ֔ב וַעֲבָדִם֙ וּשְׁפָחֹ֔ת וּגְמַלִּ֖ים וַחֲמֹרִֽים׃
(בראשית כד לד-לה)

And (then) he said, "I am Abraham's servant/slave, and Yahweh has blessed my master greatly and (then) he became big and (then) He gave him flocks of sheep and goats and cattle and silver and gold and slaves and slave-girls and camels and donkeys.

וַיִּזְרַ֤ע יִצְחָק֙ בָּאָ֣רֶץ הַהִ֔וא וַיִּמְצָ֛א בַּשָּׁנָ֥ה הַהִ֖וא מֵאָ֣ה שְׁעָרִ֑ים וַֽיְבָרְכֵ֖הוּ יְהֹוָֽה׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֖ל הָאִ֑ישׁ וַיֵּ֤לֶךְ הָלוֹךְ֙ וְגָדֵ֔ל עַ֥ד כִּֽי־גָדַ֖ל מְאֹֽד׃
(בראשית כו יב-יג)

And (then) Isaac sowed in that land and (then) he found in that year a hundred measures and (then) Yahweh blessed him. And (then) the man became big and (then) he grew bigger and bigger until he became very big.

וַתֹּ֧אמֶר לָ֣הּ בַּת־פַּרְעֹ֗ה הֵילִ֜יכִי אֶת־הַיֶּ֤לֶד הַזֶּה֙ וְהֵינִקִ֣הוּ לִ֔י וַאֲנִ֖י אֶתֵּ֣ן אֶת־שְׂכָרֵ֑ךְ וַתִּקַּ֧ח הָאִשָּׁ֛ה הַיֶּ֖לֶד וַתְּנִיקֵֽהוּ׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֣ל הַיֶּ֗לֶד וַתְּבִאֵ֙הוּ֙ לְבַת־פַּרְעֹ֔ה וַֽיְהִי־לָ֖הּ לְבֵ֑ן וַתִּקְרָ֤א שְׁמוֹ֙ מֹשֶׁ֔ה וַתֹּ֕אמֶר כִּ֥י מִן־הַמַּ֖יִם מְשִׁיתִֽהוּ׃
וַיְהִ֣י ׀ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵ֗ם וַיִּגְדַּ֤ל מֹשֶׁה֙ וַיֵּצֵ֣א אֶל־אֶחָ֔יו וַיַּ֖רְא בְּסִבְלֹתָ֑ם וַיַּרְא֙ אִ֣ישׁ מִצְרִ֔י מַכֶּ֥ה אִישׁ־עִבְרִ֖י מֵאֶחָֽיו׃

(שמות ב ט-יא)

And (then) Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Lead this child and suckle him for me and _I_ will give your wages." and (then) the woman took the child and (then) she suckled him and (then) the child became big and (then) she brought him to the Pharaoh's daughter and (then) he became a son to her and (then) she named him "Moses" and (then) she said, "Because it was from the water that I drew him out." In those days, when Moses had become big, he went out to his brothers and (then) he looked on their burden bearing and (then) he saw an Egyptian man hitting a Hebrew man from among his brothers.


וַתֵּ֤לֶד הָֽאִשָּׁה֙ בֵּ֔ן וַתִּקְרָ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ שִׁמְשׁ֑וֹן וַיִּגְדַּ֣ל הַנַּ֔עַר וַֽיְבָרְכֵ֖הוּ יְהֹוָֽה׃
וַתָּ֙חֶל֙ ר֣וּחַ יְהֹוָ֔ה לְפַעֲמ֖וֹ בְּמַחֲנֵה־דָ֑ן בֵּ֥ין צׇרְעָ֖ה וּבֵ֥ין אֶשְׁתָּאֹֽל׃
(שופטים יג כד-כה)

And (then) the woman gave birth to a son and (then) she named him Samson and (then) the boy became big and (then) Yahweh blessed him and (then) the spirit of Yahweh began to stir him in Dan's camp between Zorah and Eshtaol.

וּבֵרַ֨ךְ עֵלִ֜י אֶת־אֶלְקָנָ֣ה וְאֶת־אִשְׁתּ֗וֹ וְאָמַר֙ יָשֵׂם֩ יְהֹוָ֨ה לְךָ֥ זֶ֙רַע֙ מִן־הָאִשָּׁ֣ה הַזֹּ֔את תַּ֚חַת הַשְּׁאֵלָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר שָׁאַ֖ל לַֽיהֹוָ֑ה וְהָלְכ֖וּ לִמְקוֹמֽוֹ׃
כִּֽי־פָקַ֤ד יְהֹוָה֙ אֶת־חַנָּ֔ה וַתַּ֛הַר וַתֵּ֥לֶד שְׁלֹשָֽׁה־בָנִ֖ים וּשְׁתֵּ֣י בָנ֑וֹת וַיִּגְדַּ֛ל הַנַּ֥עַר שְׁמוּאֵ֖ל עִם־יְהֹוָֽה׃
(שמואל א ב כ-כא)

And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife and said, "May Yahweh give you progeny from this woman instead of the request that he begged for from Yahweh." and they went to his place. Verily, Yahweh visited Hannah and (then) she became pregnant and (then) she gave birth to three sons and two daughters and (then) the boy Samuel became big with Yahweh.

וַיַּגֶּד־ל֤וֹ שְׁמוּאֵל֙ אֶת־כׇּל־הַדְּבָרִ֔ים וְלֹ֥א כִחֵ֖ד מִמֶּ֑נּוּ וַיֹּאמַ֕ר יְהֹוָ֣ה ה֔וּא הַטּ֥וֹב בְּעֵינָ֖ו יַֽעֲשֶֽׂה׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֖ל שְׁמוּאֵ֑ל וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הָיָ֣ה עִמּ֔וֹ וְלֹא־הִפִּ֥יל מִכׇּל־דְּבָרָ֖יו אָֽרְצָה׃
(שמואל א ג יח)

And (then) Samuel reported to him all the things and he did not hide anything from him and (then) he said, "He is Yahweh. He will do what seems good to Him." And (then) Samuel became big and Yahweh was with him and He made none of his words fall earthward.

כִּי֩ אֳנִ֨י תַרְשִׁ֤ישׁ לַמֶּ֙לֶךְ֙ בַּיָּ֔ם עִ֖ם אֳנִ֣י חִירָ֑ם אַחַת֩ לְשָׁלֹ֨שׁ שָׁנִ֜ים תָּב֣וֹא ׀ אֳנִ֣י תַרְשִׁ֗ישׁ נֹֽשְׂאֵת֙ זָהָ֣ב וָכֶ֔סֶף שֶׁנְהַבִּ֥ים וְקֹפִ֖ים וְתֻכִּיִּֽים׃
וַיִּגְדַּל֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֔ה מִכֹּ֖ל מַלְכֵ֣י הָאָ֑רֶץ לְעֹ֖שֶׁר וּלְחׇכְמָֽה׃
(מלכים א י כב-כג)

Because the king had the fleet of Tarshish at sea with the fleet of Hiram. Once every three years did the fleet of Tarshish come carrying gold and silver, ivory and monkeys and peacocks. And (then) King Solomon became bigger than all the kings of the earth in wealth and in wisdom.

וַתַּ֥הַר הָאִשָּׁ֖ה וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֑ן לַמּוֹעֵ֤ד הַזֶּה֙ כָּעֵ֣ת חַיָּ֔ה אֲשֶׁר־דִּבֶּ֥ר אֵלֶ֖יהָ אֱלִישָֽׁע׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֖ל הַיָּ֑לֶד וַיְהִ֣י הַיּ֔וֹם וַיֵּצֵ֥א אֶל־אָבִ֖יו אֶל־הַקֹּצְרִֽים׃
וַיֹּ֥אמֶר אֶל־אָבִ֖יו רֹאשִׁ֣י ׀ רֹאשִׁ֑י וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־הַנַּ֔עַר שָׂאֵ֖הוּ אֶל־אִמּֽוֹ׃
(מלכים ב ד יז-יט)

And (then) the woman became pregnant and (then) she gave birth to a son at this appointed time that Elisha had promised her, according to the time of life. And (then) the child became big and (then) one day he went out to his father to the reapers. And (then) he said to his father, "My head, my head!" and (then) he said to the assistant, "Carry him to his mother."


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## Ali Smith

כִּֽי־אֳנִיּ֤וֹת לַמֶּ֙לֶךְ֙ הֹלְכ֣וֹת תַּרְשִׁ֔ישׁ עִ֖ם עַבְדֵ֣י חוּרָ֑ם אַחַת֩ לְשָׁל֨וֹשׁ שָׁנִ֜ים תָּב֣וֹאנָה ׀ אֳנִיּ֣וֹת תַּרְשִׁ֗ישׁ נֹֽשְׂאוֹת֙ זָהָ֣ב וָכֶ֔סֶף שֶׁנְהַבִּ֥ים וְקוֹפִ֖ים וְתוּכִּיִּֽים׃
וַיִּגְדַּל֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֔ה מִכֹּ֖ל מַלְכֵ֣י הָאָ֑רֶץ לְעֹ֖שֶׁר וְחׇכְמָֽה׃
(דברי הימים ב ט כא-כב)

Because the king had ships that went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram. Once every three years did the ships of Tarshish come carrying gold and silver, ivory and monkeys and peacocks. And (then) King Solomon became bigger than all the kings of the earth in wealth and wisdom.

הָאֹֽכְלִים֙ לְמַ֣עֲדַנִּ֔ים נָשַׁ֖מּוּ בַּחוּצ֑וֹת הָאֱמֻנִים֙ עֲלֵ֣י תוֹלָ֔ע חִבְּק֖וּ אַשְׁפַּתּֽוֹת׃
וַיִּגְדַּל֙ עֲוֺ֣ן בַּת־עַמִּ֔י מֵֽחַטַּ֖את סְדֹ֑ם הַֽהֲפוּכָ֣ה כְמוֹ־רָ֔גַע וְלֹא־חָ֥לוּ בָ֖הּ יָדָֽיִם׃
(איכה ד ה-ו)

The ones who ate delicacies were made to tremble in the streets, the ones brought up in crimson embraced heaps of garbage and manure. The punishment of my people's daughter became bigger than the sin of Sodom, which was overturned as in a moment and no hands were turned toward her.


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## Sharjeel72

Ali Smith said:


> כִּֽי־אֳנִיּ֤וֹת לַמֶּ֙לֶךְ֙ הֹלְכ֣וֹת תַּרְשִׁ֔ישׁ עִ֖ם עַבְדֵ֣י חוּרָ֑ם אַחַת֩ לְשָׁל֨וֹשׁ שָׁנִ֜ים תָּב֣וֹאנָה ׀ אֳנִיּ֣וֹת תַּרְשִׁ֗ישׁ נֹֽשְׂאוֹת֙ זָהָ֣ב וָכֶ֔סֶף שֶׁנְהַבִּ֥ים וְקוֹפִ֖ים וְתוּכִּיִּֽים׃
> וַיִּגְדַּל֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֔ה מִכֹּ֖ל מַלְכֵ֣י הָאָ֑רֶץ לְעֹ֖שֶׁר וְחׇכְמָֽה׃
> (דברי הימים ב ט כא-כב)
> 
> Because the king had ships that went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram. Once every three years did the ships of Tarshish come carrying gold and silver, ivory and monkeys and peacocks. And (then) King Solomon became bigger than all the kings of the earth in wealth and wisdom.
> 
> הָאֹֽכְלִים֙ לְמַ֣עֲדַנִּ֔ים נָשַׁ֖מּוּ בַּחוּצ֑וֹת הָאֱמֻנִים֙ עֲלֵ֣י תוֹלָ֔ע חִבְּק֖וּ אַשְׁפַּתּֽוֹת׃
> וַיִּגְדַּל֙ עֲוֺ֣ן בַּת־עַמִּ֔י מֵֽחַטַּ֖את סְדֹ֑ם הַֽהֲפוּכָ֣ה כְמוֹ־רָ֔גַע וְלֹא־חָ֥לוּ בָ֖הּ יָדָֽיִם׃
> (איכה ד ה-ו)
> 
> The ones who ate delicacies were made to tremble in the streets, the ones brought up in crimson embraced heaps of garbage and manure. The punishment of my people's daughter became bigger than the sin of Sodom, which was overturned as in a moment and no hands were turned toward her.


Are there any examples where the stative verb is _not_ g-d-l (qal)? Thanks in advance, Ali!


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## Ali Smith

Sure there are. Observe the use of qal כבד  'to be heavy':

אֳנִיּ֣וֹת תַּרְשִׁ֔ישׁ שָׁרוֹתַ֖יִךְ מַעֲרָבֵ֑ךְ וַתִּמָּלְאִ֧י וַֽתִּכְבְּדִ֛י מְאֹ֖ד בְּלֵ֥ב יַמִּֽים׃
בְּמַ֤יִם רַבִּים֙ הֱבִא֔וּךְ הַשָּׁטִ֖ים אֹתָ֑ךְ ר֚וּחַ הַקָּדִ֔ים שְׁבָרֵ֖ךְ בְּלֵ֥ב יַמִּֽים׃
(יחזקאל כז כה-כו)

The ships of Tarshish were your carriers of your merchandise and you were filled and (then) you became very heavy in the heart of seas. The rowers have brought you into much water. The wind of the east has broken you in the heart of seas.

וַיַּ֨עַשׂ יְהֹוָ֜ה אֶת־הַדָּבָ֤ר הַזֶּה֙ מִֽמׇּחֳרָ֔ת וַיָּ֕מׇת כֹּ֖ל מִקְנֵ֣ה מִצְרָ֑יִם וּמִמִּקְנֵ֥ה בְנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל לֹא־מֵ֥ת אֶחָֽד׃
וַיִּשְׁלַ֣ח פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְהִנֵּ֗ה לֹא־מֵ֛ת מִמִּקְנֵ֥ה יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל עַד־אֶחָ֑ד וַיִּכְבַּד֙ לֵ֣ב פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְלֹ֥א שִׁלַּ֖ח אֶת־הָעָֽם׃
(שמות ט ו-ז)

And (then) Yahweh did this thing on the next day and (then) all the livestock of Egypt died but none of the livestock of the sons of Israel died. And (then) Pharaoh sent [messengers and they saw that] not even one of livestock of Israel had died, and (then) Pharoah's heart became heavy and he did not let the people go.

וַיִּלְחֲצ֧וּ הָאֱמֹרִ֛י אֶת־בְּנֵי־דָ֖ן הָהָ֑רָה כִּי־לֹ֥א נְתָנ֖וֹ לָרֶ֥דֶת לָעֵֽמֶק׃
וַיּ֤וֹאֶל הָאֱמֹרִי֙ לָשֶׁ֣בֶת בְּהַר־חֶ֔רֶס בְּאַיָּל֖וֹן וּבְשַׁעַלְבִ֑ים וַתִּכְבַּד֙ יַ֣ד בֵּית־יוֹסֵ֔ף וַיִּהְי֖וּ לָמַֽס׃
וּגְבוּל֙ הָאֱמֹרִ֔י מִֽמַּעֲלֵ֖ה עַקְרַבִּ֑ים מֵהַסֶּ֖לַע וָמָֽעְלָה׃
(שופטים א לד-לו)

And (then) the Amorites forced Dan's sons into the hill-country because they did not allow them to come down to the valley, and (then) the Amorites were determined to dwell in Mount Heres in Aijalon and in Shaalbim, and (then) the power of the house of Joseph became important and (then) they became forced labor. And the boundary of the Amorites was from Akrabbim's ascent, that is, from Sela and upward.

עַל־כֵּ֡ן לֹֽא־יִדְרְכוּ֩ כֹהֲנֵ֨י דָג֜וֹן וְכׇֽל־הַבָּאִ֧ים בֵּית־דָּג֛וֹן עַל־מִפְתַּ֥ן דָּג֖וֹן בְּאַשְׁדּ֑וֹד עַ֖ד הַיּ֥וֹם הַזֶּֽה׃
וַתִּכְבַּ֧ד יַד־יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶל־הָאַשְׁדּוֹדִ֖ים וַיְשִׁמֵּ֑ם וַיַּ֤ךְ אֹתָם֙ בעפלים בַּטְּחֹרִ֔ים אֶת־אַשְׁדּ֖וֹד וְאֶת־גְּבוּלֶֽיהָ׃
(שמואל א ה ה-ו)

That is why to this day the priests of Dagon and everyone who enters Dagon's house do not tread on Dagon's threshold in Ashdod. Yahweh's power became heavy on the Ashdodites and (then) He devastated them and (then) He afflicted them with tumors, both Ashdod and its territories.

וַיַּדְבְּק֣וּ פְלִשְׁתִּ֔ים אֶת־שָׁא֖וּל וְאֶת־בָּנָ֑יו וַיַּכּ֣וּ פְלִשְׁתִּ֗ים אֶת־יְהוֹנָתָ֧ן וְאֶת־אֲבִינָדָ֛ב וְאֶת־מַלְכִּי־שׁ֖וּעַ בְּנֵ֥י שָׁאֽוּל׃
וַתִּכְבַּ֤ד הַמִּלְחָמָה֙ אֶל־שָׁא֔וּל וַיִּמְצָאֻ֥הוּ הַמּוֹרִ֖ים אֲנָשִׁ֣ים בַּקָּ֑שֶׁת וַיָּ֥חֶל מְאֹ֖ד מֵהַמּוֹרִֽים׃
(שמואל א לא ב-ג)

And (then) the Philistines pursued Saul and his sons closely and (then) the Philistines killed Jonathan, Abinadab, and Malchishua, Saul's sons, and (then) the battle became serious against Saul and (then) the archers found him and (then) he was severely wounded by the archers.

וַיַּדְבְּק֣וּ פְלִשְׁתִּ֔ים אַחֲרֵ֥י שָׁא֖וּל וְאַחֲרֵ֣י בָנָ֑יו וַיַּכּ֣וּ פְלִשְׁתִּ֗ים אֶת־יוֹנָתָ֧ן וְאֶת־אֲבִינָדָ֛ב וְאֶת־מַלְכִּי־שׁ֖וּעַ בְּנֵ֥י שָׁאֽוּל׃
וַתִּכְבַּ֤ד הַמִּלְחָמָה֙ עַל־שָׁא֔וּל וַיִּמְצָאֻ֖הוּ הַמּוֹרִ֣ים בַּקָּ֑שֶׁת וַיָּ֖חֶל מִן־הַיּוֹרִֽים׃
(דברי הימים א י ב-ג)

And (then) the Philistines pursued Saul and his sons closely and (then) the Philistines killed Jonathan, Abinadab, and Malchishua, Saul's sons, and (then) the battle became serious against Saul and (then) the archers found him and (then) he was wounded by the archers.


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## Drink

I don't why you're assuming that all these quotations must have the meaning of "become". Semantically, they work just as well without it.


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## JAN SHAR

If it doesn't translate to "become" in all these places then what does it translate to?


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## Drink

A simple state of being. "You filled up and *were* very heavy." "And the hand of the L-rd *was* heavy." "And the war *was* heavy." Etc.


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## Ali Smith

Drink, do you think the meaning of a simple state of being would work in the following context?

וְיִפְתָּ֣ח הַגִּלְעָדִ֗י הָיָה֙ גִּבּ֣וֹר חַ֔יִל וְה֖וּא בֶּן־אִשָּׁ֣ה זוֹנָ֑ה וַיּ֥וֹלֶד גִּלְעָ֖ד אֶת־יִפְתָּֽח׃
וַתֵּ֧לֶד אֵֽשֶׁת־גִּלְעָ֛ד ל֖וֹ בָּנִ֑ים וַיִּגְדְּל֨וּ בְֽנֵי־הָאִשָּׁ֜ה וַיְגָרְשׁ֣וּ אֶת־יִפְתָּ֗ח וַיֹּ֤אמְרוּ לוֹ֙ לֹא־תִנְחַ֣ל בְּבֵית־אָבִ֔ינוּ כִּ֛י בֶּן־אִשָּׁ֥ה אַחֶ֖רֶת אָֽתָּה׃
(שופטים יא א-ב)

And Jephthah the Gileadite was a warrior but he was a prostitute's son and (then) Gilead begot Jephthah. And (then) Gilead's wife bore him sons and (then) the woman's sons became big and (then) they drove Jephthah out and (then) they said to him, "You will not have a property in our father's house because you are another woman's son."


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## Drink

You seem to always be assuming and attempting to prove one single meaning for a given form of a verb. This is an incorrect assumption. Verb forms can and do have multiple meanings and usages.


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## JAN SHAR

ותקטן עוד זאת בעיניך אדני יהוה ותדבר גם אל בית עבדך למרחוק וזאת תורת האדם אדני יהוה

ותקטן זאת בעיניך אלהים ותדבר על בית עבדך למרחוק וראיתני כתור האדם המעלה יהוה אלהים

Ali, these two examples have ותקטן and they indicate a simple state of being, don't they? I don't think they indicate becoming.


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## Ali Smith

וַיָּבֹא֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ דָּוִ֔יד וַיֵּ֖שֶׁב לִפְנֵ֣י יְהֹוָ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר מִֽי־אֲנִ֞י יְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹהִים֙ וּמִ֣י בֵיתִ֔י כִּ֥י הֲבִיאֹתַ֖נִי עַד־הֲלֹֽם׃
וַתִּקְטַ֨ן זֹ֤את בְּעֵינֶ֙יךָ֙ אֱלֹהִ֔ים וַתְּדַבֵּ֥ר עַל־בֵּֽית־עַבְדְּךָ֖ לְמֵרָח֑וֹק וּרְאִיתַ֗נִי כְּת֧וֹר הָאָדָ֛ם הַמַּעֲלָ֖ה יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִֽים׃
(דברי הימים א יז טז-יז)

And King David entered and sat in front of Yahweh and he said, "Who am I, O Yahweh, God, and who is my house that you have brought to here? And this became insignificant in your eyes, O God, for you spoke about the house of your servant in the distant future and regarded me according to the standard of a man of high degree, O Yahweh, God."

וַיָּבֹא֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ דָּוִ֔ד וַיֵּ֖שֶׁב לִפְנֵ֣י יְהֹוָ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֣י אָנֹכִ֞י אֲדֹנָ֤י יֱהֹוִה֙ וּמִ֣י בֵיתִ֔י כִּ֥י הֲבִאֹתַ֖נִי עַד־הֲלֹֽם׃
וַתִּקְטַן֩ ע֨וֹד זֹ֤את בְּעֵינֶ֙יךָ֙ אֲדֹנָ֣י יֱהֹוִ֔ה וַתְּדַבֵּ֛ר גַּ֥ם אֶל־בֵּֽית־עַבְדְּךָ֖ לְמֵרָח֑וֹק וְזֹ֛את תּוֹרַ֥ת הָאָדָ֖ם אֲדֹנָ֥י יֱהֹוִֽה׃
(שמואל ב ז יח-יט)

And King David entered and sat in front of Yahweh and he said, "Who am I, O my lord Yahweh, and who is my house that you have brought to here? And this became insignificant in your eyes again, O my lord Yahweh, for you spoke about the house of your servant in the distant future too. And this is the law of man, O my lord Yahweh."

The adverb עוד 'again' indicates that ותקטן signifies a change of state. How would you translate עוד if ותקטן meant what you claim it means?

And here is another example, this time from the root ט-ה-ר:

וַיֵּ֗רֶד וַיִּטְבֹּ֤ל בַּיַּרְדֵּן֙ שֶׁ֣בַע פְּעָמִ֔ים כִּדְבַ֖ר אִ֣ישׁ הָאֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיָּ֣שׇׁב בְּשָׂר֗וֹ כִּבְשַׂ֛ר נַ֥עַר קָטֹ֖ן וַיִּטְהָֽר׃
(מלכים ב ה יד)

And he went down and dove seven times in the Jordan according to the word of the man of God, and his skin returned like a little boy's skin and he became clean.


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## Drink

Does העוד אבי חי mean "Is my father alive again?" No. It means "Is my father _still_ alive." עוד is used with stative verbs, so I don't see your difficulty here.

As for the verb טהר, in the vast majority of uses it means to "become clean", there are maybe only a handful of times that it is used statively. So this cannot be claimed to be an effect of the vav-consecutive.


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## Ali Smith

You have a point; עוד in העוד אבי חי means "still", not "again".

וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יוֹסֵ֤ף אֶל־אֶחָיו֙ אֲנִ֣י יוֹסֵ֔ף הַע֥וֹד אָבִ֖י חָ֑י וְלֹֽא־יָכְל֤וּ אֶחָיו֙ לַעֲנ֣וֹת אֹת֔וֹ כִּ֥י נִבְהֲל֖וּ מִפָּנָֽיו׃
(בראשית מה ג)

And Joseph said to his brothers, "I am Joseph. Is my father still alive?" but his brothers could not answer him because they were dismayed at his presence.

However, we have ample evidence that a stative prefix-conjugation verb preceded by a waw-retentive signifies a change of state. Observe:

וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יְהֹוָ֜ה לָ֗הּ שְׁנֵ֤י גיים גוֹיִם֙ בְּבִטְנֵ֔ךְ וּשְׁנֵ֣י לְאֻמִּ֔ים מִמֵּעַ֖יִךְ יִפָּרֵ֑דוּ וּלְאֹם֙ מִלְאֹ֣ם יֶֽאֱמָ֔ץ וְרַ֖ב יַעֲבֹ֥ד צָעִֽיר׃
וַיִּמְלְא֥וּ יָמֶ֖יהָ לָלֶ֑דֶת וְהִנֵּ֥ה תוֹמִ֖ם בְּבִטְנָֽהּ׃
(בראשית כה כג-כד)

And Yahweh said to her, "Two nations are in your belly, and two peoples will be separated from your womb, and one people will be stronger than another people and the elder will serve the younger." And when her days to give birth became full (i.e. were fulfilled), behold, there were twins in her belly.

וַיְצַ֨ו יוֹסֵ֤ף אֶת־עֲבָדָיו֙ אֶת־הָרֹ֣פְאִ֔ים לַחֲנֹ֖ט אֶת־אָבִ֑יו וַיַּחַנְט֥וּ הָרֹפְאִ֖ים אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
וַיִּמְלְאוּ־לוֹ֙ אַרְבָּעִ֣ים י֔וֹם כִּ֛י כֵּ֥ן יִמְלְא֖וּ יְמֵ֣י הַחֲנֻטִ֑ים וַיִּבְכּ֥וּ אֹת֛וֹ מִצְרַ֖יִם שִׁבְעִ֥ים יֽוֹם׃
(בראשית נ ב-ג)

And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father and the physicians embalmed Israel. And forty days became full (i.e. were fulfilled) for him, for thus are fulfilled the days of those who are embalmed, and the Egyptians mourned for him seventy days.


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> However, we have ample evidence that a stative prefix-conjugation verb preceded by a waw-retentive signifies a change of state.


No we do not. All your evidence shows is that it _can_ indicate a change of state. But it _can_ indicate a change of state even without the vav-consecutive. So you have not shown any relationship whatsoever between the vav-consecutive and the change of state.


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## Ali Smith

At least we agree that the combination of waw-retentive and stative prefix-conjugation verb signifies a change of state. Which component gives it that meaning remains an open question though.

Here is another example:

אֵ֡ת מַחְתּוֹת֩ הַֽחַטָּאִ֨ים הָאֵ֜לֶּה בְּנַפְשֹׁתָ֗ם וְעָשׂ֨וּ אֹתָ֜ם רִקֻּעֵ֤י פַחִים֙ צִפּ֣וּי לַמִּזְבֵּ֔חַ כִּֽי־הִקְרִיבֻ֥ם לִפְנֵֽי־יְהֹוָ֖ה וַיִּקְדָּ֑שׁוּ וְיִֽהְי֥וּ לְא֖וֹת לִבְנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
(במדבר יז ג)

As for the snuff-holders of these men who have sinned at the cost of their lives, may they make them into thin plates of metal for plating of the altar, since they presented them in front of Yahweh and they became holy, and may they become a sign to the sons of Israel.


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> At least we agree that the combination of waw-retentive and stative prefix-conjugation verb signifies a change of state. Which component gives it that meaning remains an open question though.


The only thing we agree on is that it _can_ indicate a change of state. We've agreed on that the whole time.

But you for some reason think that showing more and more examples of where it indicates a change of state is somehow proof that it is the _only_ meaning. That's not how proofs work.


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## Ali Smith

Then how would I go about proving that it is the _only_ meaning?


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## Drink

You'd have to analyze every single usage and show that no other meanings exist for this verb form.

I recommend starting with the counterexamples that we've already given you.


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## Sharjeel72

Drink said:


> You'd have to analyze every single usage and show that no other meanings exist for this verb form.
> 
> I recommend starting with the counterexamples that we've already given you.


What counterexamples would those be? Are you referring to the following? Thanks!



Drink said:


> There is no real proof here though. Both "was old" and "became old" are equally semantically plausible.


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## Drink

No those would be weak counterexamples. This discussion is happening on multiple threads at the same time, so I'm kind of losing track. But there were some actual counterexamples that didn't make sense to interpret as active.


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## Ali Smith

At least we can agree that when we have waw-retentive followed by a stative prefix-conjugation verb and the stative verb happens to be Qal ק-ר-ב, it can only signify a change of state. Observe:

וְשָׂ֥ם לָהּ֙ עֲלִילֹ֣ת דְּבָרִ֔ים וְהוֹצִ֥א עָלֶ֖יהָ שֵׁ֣ם רָ֑ע וְאָמַ֗ר אֶת־הָאִשָּׁ֤ה הַזֹּאת֙ לָקַ֔חְתִּי וָאֶקְרַ֣ב אֵלֶ֔יהָ וְלֹא־מָצָ֥אתִי לָ֖הּ בְּתוּלִֽים׃
(דברים כב יד)

And accuses her of shameful deeds and gives her a bad name and says, "I married this woman, but I drew near her and did not find her to have tokens of virginity."

וְאָעִ֣ידָה לִּ֔י עֵדִ֖ים נֶֽאֱמָנִ֑ים אֵ֚ת אוּרִיָּ֣ה הַכֹּהֵ֔ן וְאֶת־זְכַרְיָ֖הוּ בֶּ֥ן יְבֶרֶכְיָֽהוּ׃
וָֽאֶקְרַב֙ אֶל־הַנְּבִיאָ֔ה וַתַּ֖הַר וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֑ן וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהֹוָה֙ אֵלַ֔י קְרָ֣א שְׁמ֔וֹ מַהֵ֥ר שָׁלָ֖ל חָ֥שׁ בַּֽז׃
(ישעיהו ח ב-ג)

"Let me take as reliable witnesses for myself Uriah the priest and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah." And I drew near the prophetess and she conceived and gave birth to a son. Then Yahweh said to me, "Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz."

וַיֹּ֨אמֶר מֹשֶׁ֜ה אֶֽל־אַהֲרֹ֗ן קְרַ֤ב אֶל־הַמִּזְבֵּ֙חַ֙ וַעֲשֵׂ֞ה אֶת־חַטָּֽאתְךָ֙ וְאֶת־עֹ֣לָתֶ֔ךָ וְכַפֵּ֥ר בַּֽעַדְךָ֖ וּבְעַ֣ד הָעָ֑ם וַעֲשֵׂ֞ה אֶת־קׇרְבַּ֤ן הָעָם֙ וְכַפֵּ֣ר בַּֽעֲדָ֔ם כַּאֲשֶׁ֖ר צִוָּ֥ה יְהֹוָֽה׃
וַיִּקְרַ֥ב אַהֲרֹ֖ן אֶל־הַמִּזְבֵּ֑חַ וַיִּשְׁחַ֛ט אֶת־עֵ֥גֶל הַחַטָּ֖את אֲשֶׁר־לֽוֹ׃
(ויקרא ט ז-ח)

And Moses said to Aaron, "Draw near the altar and offer your sin offering and your burnt offering and atone on behalf of yourself and the nation and make the offering of the nation and atone on their behalf as Yahweh commanded. So Aaron drew near the altar and slaughtered the young bull of the sin offering, which was for himself.

וְהָיָה֙ כִּי־קָ֣ם הַפְּלִשְׁתִּ֔י וַיֵּ֥לֶךְ וַיִּקְרַ֖ב לִקְרַ֣את דָּוִ֑ד וַיְמַהֵ֣ר דָּוִ֔ד וַיָּ֥רׇץ הַמַּעֲרָכָ֖ה לִקְרַ֥את הַפְּלִשְׁתִּֽי׃
(שמואל א יז מח)

When the Philistine arose and walked and drew near to meet David, he ran toward the line of battle to meet the Philistine.

וַתִּקְרָ֛א אִשָּׁ֥ה חֲכָמָ֖ה מִן־הָעִ֑יר שִׁמְע֤וּ שִׁמְעוּ֙ אִמְרוּ־נָ֣א אֶל־יוֹאָ֔ב קְרַ֣ב עַד־הֵ֔נָּה וַאֲדַבְּרָ֖ה אֵלֶֽיךָ׃
וַיִּקְרַ֣ב אֵלֶ֔יהָ וַתֹּ֧אמֶר הָאִשָּׁ֛ה הַאַתָּ֥ה יוֹאָ֖ב וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אָ֑נִי וַתֹּ֣אמֶר ל֗וֹ שְׁמַע֙ דִּבְרֵ֣י אֲמָתֶ֔ךָ וַיֹּ֖אמֶר שֹׁמֵ֥עַ אָנֹֽכִי׃
(שמואל ב כ טז-יז)

Then a wise woman from the city called, "Listen! Listen! Please tell Joab, 'Come here so that I may speak with you.'" So he drew near her and the woman said, "Are you Joab?" and he said, "I am." and she said to him, "Listen to the words of your maidservant." and he said, "I am listening."

וַיָּבֹ֤א הַמֶּ֙לֶךְ֙ מִדַּמֶּ֔שֶׂק וַיַּ֥רְא הַמֶּ֖לֶךְ אֶת־הַמִּזְבֵּ֑חַ וַיִּקְרַ֥ב הַמֶּ֛לֶךְ עַל־הַמִּזְבֵּ֖חַ וַיַּ֥עַל עָלָֽיו׃
(מלכים ב טז יב)

And the king came from Damascus and the king saw the altar and the king drew near the altar and he ascended it.

וַיִּֽירְא֣וּ הַמַּלָּחִ֗ים וַֽיִּזְעֲקוּ֮ אִ֣ישׁ אֶל־אֱלֹהָיו֒ וַיָּטִ֨לוּ אֶת־הַכֵּלִ֜ים אֲשֶׁ֤ר בָּֽאֳנִיָּה֙ אֶל־הַיָּ֔ם לְהָקֵ֖ל מֵֽעֲלֵיהֶ֑ם וְיוֹנָ֗ה יָרַד֙ אֶל־יַרְכְּתֵ֣י הַסְּפִינָ֔ה וַיִּשְׁכַּ֖ב וַיֵּרָדַֽם׃
וַיִּקְרַ֤ב אֵלָיו֙ רַ֣ב הַחֹבֵ֔ל וַיֹּ֥אמֶר ל֖וֹ מַה־לְּךָ֣ נִרְדָּ֑ם ק֚וּם קְרָ֣א אֶל־אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ אוּלַ֞י יִתְעַשֵּׁ֧ת הָאֱלֹהִ֛ים לָ֖נוּ וְלֹ֥א נֹאבֵֽד׃
(יונה א ה-ו)

Then the seamen became afraid and each called to his god for help and hurled the cargo that was in the ship into the sea to make [it] lighter for them. But Jonah had gone down to the innermost part of the ship and lain down and fallen fast asleep. Then the captain drew near him and said to him, "How is it that you are sleeping deeply? Get up and call to your god. Perhaps God will bear us in mind and we will not perish."

וַיְחִ֤י יַעֲקֹב֙ בְּאֶ֣רֶץ מִצְרַ֔יִם שְׁבַ֥ע עֶשְׂרֵ֖ה שָׁנָ֑ה וַיְהִ֤י יְמֵֽי־יַעֲקֹב֙ שְׁנֵ֣י חַיָּ֔יו שֶׁ֣בַע שָׁנִ֔ים וְאַרְבָּעִ֥ים וּמְאַ֖ת שָׁנָֽה׃
וַיִּקְרְב֣וּ יְמֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵל֮ לָמוּת֒ וַיִּקְרָ֣א ׀ לִבְנ֣וֹ לְיוֹסֵ֗ף וַיֹּ֤אמֶר לוֹ֙ אִם־נָ֨א מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ שִֽׂים־נָ֥א יָדְךָ֖ תַּ֣חַת יְרֵכִ֑י וְעָשִׂ֤יתָ עִמָּדִי֙ חֶ֣סֶד וֶאֱמֶ֔ת אַל־נָ֥א תִקְבְּרֵ֖נִי בְּמִצְרָֽיִם׃
(בראשית מז כח-כט)

And Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years and his life span was one hundred and forty-seven years. And then the time for Israel to die drew near and he called his son Joseph and said to him, "Please, if I have found favor in your eyes put your hand under my thigh and (then) deal with me in kindness and faithfulness. Please do not bury me in Egypt."

וַיִּקְח֗וּ אֵ֚ת אֲשֶׁ֣ר צִוָּ֣ה מֹשֶׁ֔ה אֶל־פְּנֵ֖י אֹ֣הֶל מוֹעֵ֑ד וַֽיִּקְרְבוּ֙ כׇּל־הָ֣עֵדָ֔ה וַיַּֽעַמְד֖וּ לִפְנֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה׃
(ויקרא ט ה)

And they took what Moses had commanded to the front of the tent of meeting and all of the congregation drew near and stood in front of Yahweh.

וַיִּקְרָ֣א מֹשֶׁ֗ה אֶל־מִֽישָׁאֵל֙ וְאֶ֣ל אֶלְצָפָ֔ן בְּנֵ֥י עֻזִּיאֵ֖ל דֹּ֣ד אַהֲרֹ֑ן וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֲלֵהֶ֗ם קִ֞֠רְב֞֠וּ שְׂא֤וּ אֶת־אֲחֵיכֶם֙ מֵאֵ֣ת פְּנֵי־הַקֹּ֔דֶשׁ אֶל־מִח֖וּץ לַֽמַּחֲנֶֽה׃
וַֽיִּקְרְב֗וּ וַיִּשָּׂאֻם֙ בְּכֻתֳּנֹתָ֔ם אֶל־מִח֖וּץ לַֽמַּחֲנֶ֑ה כַּאֲשֶׁ֖ר דִּבֶּ֥ר מֹשֶֽׁה׃
(ויקרא י ד-ה)

And Moses called Mishael and Elzapah, the sons of Uzziel, Aaron's uncle, and said to them, "Draw near, carry your brothers away from the front of the sanctuary out of the camp." And they drew near and carried them in their tunics out of the camp as Moses had said.

וַיְהִ֣י אֲנָשִׁ֗ים אֲשֶׁ֨ר הָי֤וּ טְמֵאִים֙ לְנֶ֣פֶשׁ אָדָ֔ם וְלֹא־יָכְל֥וּ לַעֲשֹׂת־הַפֶּ֖סַח בַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֑וּא וַֽיִּקְרְב֞וּ לִפְנֵ֥י מֹשֶׁ֛ה וְלִפְנֵ֥י אַהֲרֹ֖ן בַּיּ֥וֹם הַהֽוּא׃
(במדבר ט ו)

And there were men who were unclean because of a dead person, so they could not observe Passover on that day. So, they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day.

וַיִּקַּ֨ח מֹשֶׁ֜ה מִמַּחֲצִ֣ת בְּנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל אֶת־הָֽאָחֻז֙ אֶחָ֣ד מִן־הַחֲמִשִּׁ֔ים מִן־הָאָדָ֖ם וּמִן־הַבְּהֵמָ֑ה וַיִּתֵּ֨ן אֹתָ֜ם לַלְוִיִּ֗ם שֹֽׁמְרֵי֙ מִשְׁמֶ֙רֶת֙ מִשְׁכַּ֣ן יְהֹוָ֔ה כַּאֲשֶׁ֛ר צִוָּ֥ה יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶת־מֹשֶֽׁה׃
וַֽיִּקְרְבוּ֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה הַפְּקֻדִ֕ים אֲשֶׁ֖ר לְאַלְפֵ֣י הַצָּבָ֑א שָׂרֵ֥י הָאֲלָפִ֖ים וְשָׂרֵ֥י הַמֵּאֽוֹת׃
(במדבר לא מז-מח)

And Moses took one out of every fifty, both of man and of animals of the Israelites' half, and he gave them to the Levites, who kept charge of Yahweh's tabernacle, as Yahweh had commanded Moses. And the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the captains of thousands, and the captains of hundreds drew near Moses.

וַֽיִּקְרְב֞וּ רָאשֵׁ֣י הָֽאָב֗וֹת לְמִשְׁפַּ֤חַת בְּנֵֽי־גִלְעָד֙ בֶּן־מָכִ֣יר בֶּן־מְנַשֶּׁ֔ה מִֽמִּשְׁפְּחֹ֖ת בְּנֵ֣י יוֹסֵ֑ף וַֽיְדַבְּר֞וּ לִפְנֵ֤י מֹשֶׁה֙ וְלִפְנֵ֣י הַנְּשִׂאִ֔ים רָאשֵׁ֥י אָב֖וֹת לִבְנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
(במדבר לו א)

And the heads of the fathers of the families of the sons of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of the sons of Joseph, drew near and spoke in front of Moses and in front of the leaders, the heads of fathers of the sons of Israel.

וַ֠יְהִ֠י כְּֽהוֹצִיאָ֞ם אֶת־הַמְּלָכִ֣ים הָאֵ֘לֶּה֮ אֶל־יְהוֹשֻׁ֒עַ֒ וַיִּקְרָ֨א יְהוֹשֻׁ֜עַ אֶל־כׇּל־אִ֣ישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל וַ֠יֹּ֠אמֶר אֶל־קְצִינֵ֞י אַנְשֵׁ֤י הַמִּלְחָמָה֙ הֶהָלְכ֣וּא אִתּ֔וֹ קִרְב֗וּ שִׂ֚ימוּ אֶת־רַגְלֵיכֶ֔ם עַֽל־צַוְּארֵ֖י הַמְּלָכִ֣ים הָאֵ֑לֶּה וַֽיִּקְרְב֔וּ וַיָּשִׂ֥ימוּ אֶת־רַגְלֵיהֶ֖ם עַל־צַוְּארֵיהֶֽם׃
(יהושע י כד)

When they took these kings out to Joshua, Joshua summoned all the men of Israel and said to the chiefs of the men of war who had gone with him, "Draw near, put your feet on the necks of these kings." And they drew near and put their feet on their necks.


----------



## Ali Smith

וַיַּעֲל֣וּ בְנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל וַיִּבְכּ֣וּ לִפְנֵי־יְהֹוָה֮ עַד־הָעֶ֒רֶב֒ וַיִּשְׁאֲל֤וּ בַֽיהֹוָה֙ לֵאמֹ֔ר הַאוֹסִ֗יף לָגֶ֙שֶׁת֙ לַמִּלְחָמָ֔ה עִם־בְּנֵ֥י בִנְיָמִ֖ן אָחִ֑י וַיֹּ֥אמֶר יְהֹוָ֖ה עֲל֥וּ אֵלָֽיו׃
וַיִּקְרְב֧וּ בְנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל אֶל־בְּנֵ֥י בִנְיָמִ֖ן בַּיּ֥וֹם הַשֵּׁנִֽי׃
(שופטים כ כג-כד)

And the sons of Israel went up and cried in front of Yahweh until evening and inquired of Yahweh, "Should we again fight against the sons of Benjamin, my brother?" and Yahweh said, "Go up to him." And the sons of Israel drew near the sons of Benjamin on the second day.

וַיִּשְׁלַ֞ח הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֗ה וַיּֽוֹרִדֻ֙הוּ֙ מֵעַ֣ל הַמִּזְבֵּ֔חַ וַיָּבֹ֕א וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ לַמֶּ֣לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֑ה וַיֹּאמֶר־ל֥וֹ שְׁלֹמֹ֖ה לֵ֥ךְ לְבֵיתֶֽךָ׃
וַיִּקְרְב֥וּ יְמֵֽי־דָוִ֖ד לָמ֑וּת וַיְצַ֛ו אֶת־שְׁלֹמֹ֥ה בְנ֖וֹ לֵאמֹֽר׃
(מלכים א א נג-ב א)

So King Solomon sent, and they took him down from the altar, and he came and prostrated himself before King Solomon and Solomon said to him, "Go to your house." David's time to die drew near and he instructed Solomon, his son, "

וַֽיַּחֲנ֧וּ אֵ֦לֶּה נֹכַח־אֵ֖לֶּה שִׁבְעַ֣ת יָמִ֑ים וַיְהִ֣י ׀ בַּיּ֣וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֗י וַתִּקְרַב֙ הַמִּלְחָמָ֔ה וַיַּכּ֨וּ בְנֵי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֧ל אֶת־אֲרָ֛ם מֵאָה־אֶ֥לֶף רַגְלִ֖י בְּי֥וֹם אֶחָֽד׃
(מלכים א כ כט)

And they camped opposite each other for seven days, and on the seventh day the battle was joined and the sons of Israel struck down the Arameans, a hundred thousand in one day.

וַיְהִי֩ כִרְא֨וֹת הַמֶּ֜לֶךְ אֶת־אֶסְתֵּ֣ר הַמַּלְכָּ֗ה עֹמֶ֙דֶת֙ בֶּֽחָצֵ֔ר נָשְׂאָ֥ה חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינָ֑יו וַיּ֨וֹשֶׁט הַמֶּ֜לֶךְ לְאֶסְתֵּ֗ר אֶת־שַׁרְבִ֤יט הַזָּהָב֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּיָד֔וֹ וַתִּקְרַ֣ב אֶסְתֵּ֔ר וַתִּגַּ֖ע בְּרֹ֥אשׁ הַשַּׁרְבִֽיט׃
(אסתר ה ב)

When the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court, she obtained favor in his eyes and the king extended the golden scepter that was in his hand and Esther drew near and touched the tip of the scepter.

יִ֣כֶל בְּשָׂר֣וֹ מֵרֹ֑אִי ושפי וְשֻׁפּ֥וּ עַ֝צְמֹתָ֗יו לֹ֣א רֻאּֽוּ׃
וַתִּקְרַ֣ב לַשַּׁ֣חַת נַפְשׁ֑וֹ וְ֝חַיָּת֗וֹ לַֽמְמִתִֽים׃
(איוב לג כא-כב)

His flesh is consumed away from sight and his bones that were not seen stick out. Then his soul draws near to the pit and his life [draws near] to the executioners.

כִּֽי־אָמַ֤ר יְהֹוָה֙ לָהֶ֔ם מ֥וֹת יָמֻ֖תוּ בַּמִּדְבָּ֑ר וְלֹא־נוֹתַ֤ר מֵהֶם֙ אִ֔ישׁ כִּ֚י אִם־כָּלֵ֣ב בֶּן־יְפֻנֶּ֔ה וִיהוֹשֻׁ֖עַ בִּן־נֽוּן׃
וַתִּקְרַ֜בְנָה בְּנ֣וֹת צְלׇפְחָ֗ד בֶּן־חֵ֤פֶר בֶּן־גִּלְעָד֙ בֶּן־מָכִ֣יר בֶּן־מְנַשֶּׁ֔ה לְמִשְׁפְּחֹ֖ת מְנַשֶּׁ֣ה בֶן־יוֹסֵ֑ף וְאֵ֙לֶּה֙ שְׁמ֣וֹת בְּנֹתָ֔יו מַחְלָ֣ה נֹעָ֔ה וְחׇגְלָ֥ה וּמִלְכָּ֖ה וְתִרְצָֽה׃
(במדבר כו סה-כז א)

Because Yahweh had told them they would certainly die in the desert. And not a man was left of them except Caleb, son of Jephunneh, and Joshua, son of Nun. Then the daughters of Zelophehad, the son of Hepher, the son of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of Manasseh, the son of Joseph, drew near. And these are the names of his daughters: Mahlah, Noah, and Hoglah and Milcah and Tirzah.

וְלִצְלׇפְחָד֩ בֶּן־חֵ֨פֶר בֶּן־גִּלְעָ֜ד בֶּן־מָכִ֣יר בֶּן־מְנַשֶּׁ֗ה לֹא־הָ֥יוּ ל֛וֹ בָּנִ֖ים כִּ֣י אִם־בָּנ֑וֹת וְאֵ֙לֶּה֙ שְׁמ֣וֹת בְּנֹתָ֔יו מַחְלָ֣ה וְנֹעָ֔ה חׇגְלָ֥ה מִלְכָּ֖ה וְתִרְצָֽה׃
וַתִּקְרַ֡בְנָה לִפְנֵי֩ אֶלְעָזָ֨ר הַכֹּהֵ֜ן וְלִפְנֵ֣י ׀ יְהוֹשֻׁ֣עַ בִּן־נ֗וּן וְלִפְנֵ֤י הַנְּשִׂיאִים֙ לֵאמֹ֔ר יְהֹוָה֙ צִוָּ֣ה אֶת־מֹשֶׁ֔ה לָתֶת־לָ֥נוּ נַחֲלָ֖ה בְּת֣וֹךְ אַחֵ֑ינוּ וַיִּתֵּ֨ן לָהֶ֜ם אֶל־פִּ֤י יְהֹוָה֙ נַחֲלָ֔ה בְּת֖וֹךְ אֲחֵ֥י אֲבִיהֶֽן׃
(יהושע יז ג-ד)

But Zelophehad, the son of Hepher, the son of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, had no sons, only daughters, and these are the names of his daughters: Mahlah and Noah, Hoglah, Milcah and Tirzah. And they came before Eleazar the priest and before Joshua, the son of Nun, and before the princes saying, "Yahweh commanded Moses to give us an inheritance among our brothers." So, according to Yahweh's commandment he gave them an inheritance among their father's brothers.

וְנִבֵּ֖אתִי כַּאֲשֶׁ֣ר צֻוֵּ֑יתִי וַֽיְהִי־ק֤וֹל כְּהִנָּֽבְאִי֙ וְהִנֵּה־רַ֔עַשׁ וַתִּקְרְב֣וּ עֲצָמ֔וֹת עֶ֖צֶם אֶל־עַצְמֽוֹ׃
(יחזקאל לז ז)

So I prophesied as I was commanded, and there was a noise when I prophesied, and behold, a rattling, and the bones drew near, bone to its bone.

רְ֠אֵ֠ה נָתַ֨ן יְהֹוָ֧ה אֱלֹהֶ֛יךָ לְפָנֶ֖יךָ אֶת־הָאָ֑רֶץ עֲלֵ֣ה רֵ֗שׁ כַּאֲשֶׁר֩ דִּבֶּ֨ר יְהֹוָ֜ה אֱלֹהֵ֤י אֲבֹתֶ֙יךָ֙ לָ֔ךְ אַל־תִּירָ֖א וְאַל־תֵּחָֽת׃
וַתִּקְרְב֣וּן אֵלַי֮ כֻּלְּכֶם֒ וַתֹּאמְר֗וּ נִשְׁלְחָ֤ה אֲנָשִׁים֙ לְפָנֵ֔ינוּ וְיַחְפְּרוּ־לָ֖נוּ אֶת־הָאָ֑רֶץ וְיָשִׁ֤בוּ אֹתָ֙נוּ֙ דָּבָ֔ר אֶת־הַדֶּ֙רֶךְ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר נַעֲלֶה־בָּ֔הּ וְאֵת֙ הֶֽעָרִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר נָבֹ֖א אֲלֵיהֶֽן׃
(דברים א כא-כב)

See, Yahweh your God has placed the land in front of you. Go up, take possession as Yahweh, the god of your fathers, has spoken to you. Do not fear and do not be discouraged. Then all of you drew near me and said, "Let's send men in front of us so they may search out the land for us and bring back to us word of the way by which we should go up and the cities we will enter."

י֗וֹם אֲשֶׁ֨ר עָמַ֜דְתָּ לִפְנֵ֨י יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֘יךָ֮ בְּחֹרֵב֒ בֶּאֱמֹ֨ר יְהֹוָ֜ה אֵלַ֗י הַקְהֶל־לִי֙ אֶת־הָעָ֔ם וְאַשְׁמִעֵ֖ם אֶת־דְּבָרָ֑י אֲשֶׁ֨ר יִלְמְד֜וּן לְיִרְאָ֣ה אֹתִ֗י כׇּל־הַיָּמִים֙ אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֵ֤ם חַיִּים֙ עַל־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וְאֶת־בְּנֵיהֶ֖ם יְלַמֵּדֽוּן׃
וַתִּקְרְב֥וּן וַתַּֽעַמְד֖וּן תַּ֣חַת הָהָ֑ר וְהָהָ֞ר בֹּעֵ֤ר בָּאֵשׁ֙ עַד־לֵ֣ב הַשָּׁמַ֔יִם חֹ֖שֶׁךְ עָנָ֥ן וַעֲרָפֶֽל׃
(דברים ד י-יא)

Remember the day you stood in front of Yahweh your god at Horeb while Yahweh said to me, "Assemble the people before me so I may let them hear my words so they may learn to fear me all the days they live on the earth and teach their sons." And you drew near and stood at the base of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire into the heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud, and thick gloom.

וַיְהִ֗י כְּשׇׁמְעֲכֶ֤ם אֶת־הַקּוֹל֙ מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַחֹ֔שֶׁךְ וְהָהָ֖ר בֹּעֵ֣ר בָּאֵ֑שׁ וַתִּקְרְב֣וּן אֵלַ֔י כׇּל־רָאשֵׁ֥י שִׁבְטֵיכֶ֖ם וְזִקְנֵיכֶֽם׃
(דברים ה יט)

And when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness while the mountain was burning with fire, you drew near me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders.


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## Drink

It so happens that קרב, regardless of whether it is in the vav-retentive form or not, is nearly always an active verb. So you cannot really use it as proof of anything here.


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## Ali Smith

What about here? It's clear that just as cursing came to him because he loved it, so did blessing go far away from him because he did not take delight in it.

וַיֶּאֱהַ֣ב קְ֭לָלָה וַתְּבוֹאֵ֑הוּ וְֽלֹא־חָפֵ֥ץ בִּ֝בְרָכָ֗ה וַתִּרְחַ֥ק מִמֶּֽנּוּ׃
(תהלים קט יז)

He also loved cursing, so it came to him, but he did not take delight in blessing, so it became far from him.

Here are some more examples:

וְהָיָה֙ מִקֹּ֣ל זְנוּתָ֔הּ וַתֶּחֱנַ֖ף אֶת־הָאָ֑רֶץ וַתִּנְאַ֥ף אֶת־הָאֶ֖בֶן וְאֶת־הָעֵֽץ׃
(ירמיהו ג ט)

Because of the lightness of her fornication she became polluted along with the land and engaged in idolatrous worship of stones and trees.

וַיִּ֥שְׁפְּכ֨וּ דָ֪ם נָקִ֡י דַּם־בְּנֵ֘יהֶ֤ם וּֽבְנוֹתֵיהֶ֗ם אֲשֶׁ֣ר זִ֭בְּחוּ לַעֲצַבֵּ֣י כְנָ֑עַן וַתֶּחֱנַ֥ף הָ֝אָ֗רֶץ בַּדָּמִֽים׃
וַיִּטְמְא֥וּ בְמַעֲשֵׂיהֶ֑ם וַ֝יִּזְנ֗וּ בְּמַ֥עַלְלֵיהֶֽם׃
(תהלים קו לח-לט)

And they shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, so the land became polluted with the blood and they became impure by their actions and committed fornication in their deeds.

אַל־תִּֽטַּמְּא֖וּ בְּכׇל־אֵ֑לֶּה כִּ֤י בְכׇל־אֵ֙לֶּה֙ נִטְמְא֣וּ הַגּוֹיִ֔ם אֲשֶׁר־אֲנִ֥י מְשַׁלֵּ֖חַ מִפְּנֵיכֶֽם׃
וַתִּטְמָ֣א הָאָ֔רֶץ וָאֶפְקֹ֥ד עֲוֺנָ֖הּ עָלֶ֑יהָ וַתָּקִ֥א הָאָ֖רֶץ אֶת־יֹשְׁבֶֽיהָ׃
וּשְׁמַרְתֶּ֣ם אַתֶּ֗ם אֶת־חֻקֹּתַי֙ וְאֶת־מִשְׁפָּטַ֔י וְלֹ֣א תַעֲשׂ֔וּ מִכֹּ֥ל הַתּוֹעֵבֹ֖ת הָאֵ֑לֶּה הָֽאֶזְרָ֔ח וְהַגֵּ֖ר הַגָּ֥ר בְּתוֹכְכֶֽם׃
כִּ֚י אֶת־כׇּל־הַתּוֹעֵבֹ֣ת הָאֵ֔ל עָשׂ֥וּ אַנְשֵֽׁי־הָאָ֖רֶץ אֲשֶׁ֣ר לִפְנֵיכֶ֑ם וַתִּטְמָ֖א הָאָֽרֶץ׃
(ויקרא יח כד-כז)

Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, for it was by these things that the nations which I am expelling before you defiled themselves. For the land has become defiled, so I am bringing its punishment upon it, and the land will vomit up its inhabitants. But as for you, keep my statutes and my judgments, and you shall not do any of these abominations, not the native nor the foreigner who sojourns among you, for all of these abominations were done by the men of the land who were before you, so the land became defiled.

וַיָּבֹ֨אוּ אֵלֶ֤יהָ בְנֵֽי־בָבֶל֙ לְמִשְׁכַּ֣ב דֹּדִ֔ים וַיְטַמְּא֥וּ אוֹתָ֖הּ בְּתַזְנוּתָ֑ם וַתִּ֨טְמָא־בָ֔ם וַתֵּ֥קַע נַפְשָׁ֖הּ מֵהֶֽם׃
(יחזקאל כג יז)

The Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and defiled her with their fornication, so she became defiled by them and turned away from them in disgust.

Since the original poster asked about a verb from the root ג-ב-ה I should give him other examples of it. I was able to find only six though:

לֹֽא־יִגְרַ֥ע מִצַּדִּ֗יק עֵ֫ינָ֥יו וְאֶת־מְלָכִ֥ים לַכִּסֵּ֑א וַיֹּשִׁיבֵ֥ם לָ֝נֶ֗צַח וַיִּגְבָּֽהוּ׃
(איוב לו ז)

He does not withdraw his eyes from the righteous, but with kings on the throne He seats them forever, so they become exalted.

אִמְּךָ֥ כַגֶּ֛פֶן בְּדָמְךָ֖ עַל־מַ֣יִם שְׁתוּלָ֑ה פֹּֽרִיָּה֙ וַעֲנֵפָ֔ה הָיְתָ֖ה מִמַּ֥יִם רַבִּֽים׃
וַיִּֽהְיוּ־לָ֞הּ מַטּ֣וֹת עֹ֗ז אֶל־שִׁבְטֵי֙ מֹֽשְׁלִ֔ים וַתִּגְבַּ֥הּ קוֹמָת֖וֹ עַל־בֵּ֣ין עֲבֹתִ֑ים וַיֵּרָ֣א בְגׇבְה֔וֹ בְּרֹ֖ב דָּלִיֹּתָֽיו׃
(יחזקאל יט י-יא)

Your mother was like a vine in your vineyard, planted by the waters. It was fruitful and full of branches due to abundant waters. And it had strong branches for scepters of rulers, and its height was high above branches, and it appeared in its height with the multitude of its branches.

הִנֵּה־זֶ֣ה הָיָ֔ה עֲוֺ֖ן סְדֹ֣ם אֲחוֹתֵ֑ךְ גָּא֨וֹן שִׂבְעַת־לֶ֜חֶם וְשַׁלְוַ֣ת הַשְׁקֵ֗ט הָ֤יָה לָהּ֙ וְלִבְנוֹתֶ֔יהָ וְיַד־עָנִ֥י וְאֶבְי֖וֹן לֹ֥א הֶחֱזִֽיקָה׃
וַֽתִּגְבְּהֶ֔ינָה וַתַּֽעֲשֶׂ֥ינָה תוֹעֵבָ֖ה לְפָנָ֑י וָאָסִ֥יר אֶתְהֶ֖ן כַּאֲשֶׁ֥ר רָאִֽיתִי׃
(יחזקאל טז מט-נ)

Behold, this was the iniquity of Sodom, your sister: she and her daughters had pride, abundant food, and careless security, but she did not help the poor and needy. So, they became haughty and committed an abomination in front of me. Therefore, I removed them as I saw fit.

וַיָּרֻ֙צוּ֙ וַיִּקָּחֻ֣הוּ מִשָּׁ֔ם וַיִּתְיַצֵּ֖ב בְּת֣וֹךְ הָעָ֑ם וַיִּגְבַּהּ֙ מִכׇּל־הָעָ֔ם מִשִּׁכְמ֖וֹ וָמָֽעְלָה׃
(שמואל א י כג)

And they ran and took him from there, and he stationed himself in the midst of the people, and he became taller than any of the people from his shoulders upward.

וַיָּ֨כֶן יְהֹוָ֤ה אֶת־הַמַּמְלָכָה֙ בְּיָד֔וֹ וַיִּתְּנ֧וּ כׇל־יְהוּדָ֛ה מִנְחָ֖ה לִיהֽוֹשָׁפָ֑ט וַיְהִי־ל֥וֹ עֹשֶׁר־וְכָב֖וֹד לָרֹֽב׃
וַיִּגְבַּ֥הּ לִבּ֖וֹ בְּדַרְכֵ֣י יְהֹוָ֑ה וְע֗וֹד הֵסִ֛יר אֶת־הַבָּמ֥וֹת וְאֶת־הָאֲשֵׁרִ֖ים מִיהוּדָֽה׃
(דברי הימים ב יז ה-ו)

So Yahweh established the kingdom in his hand, and all Judah gave an offering to Jehoshaphat, and he had wealth and honor in abundance. And his heart became high in Yahweh's ways, and he removed the high places and the Asherah poles from Judah again.

בְּחׇכְמָֽתְךָ֙ וּבִתְבוּנָ֣תְךָ֔ עָשִׂ֥יתָ לְּךָ֖ חָ֑יִל וַתַּ֛עַשׂ זָהָ֥ב וָכֶ֖סֶף בְּאוֹצְרוֹתֶֽיךָ׃
בְּרֹ֧ב חׇכְמָתְךָ֛ בִּרְכֻלָּתְךָ֖ הִרְבִּ֣יתָ חֵילֶ֑ךָ וַיִּגְבַּ֥הּ לְבָבְךָ֖ בְּחֵילֶֽךָ׃
(יחזקאל כח ד-ה)

By your wisdom and understanding you have acquired wealth for yourself and have acquired gold and silver for your treasuries. By your great wisdom, by your trade you have increased your wealth and your heart has become high because of your health.


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## Drink

My question is what makes you say that it is because of the vav-conversive that these have the meaning of "become", and not simply because of the fact that all stative verbs, regardless of whether they are in the vav-conversive or not, can have the meaning of "become"?


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## Ali Smith

You have a point; stative verbs can always have the meaning of "to become". However, it seems that when a stative prefix-conjugation verb is preceded by a waw-retentive, it _only_ has the meaning of "to become", i.e. it signifies a _change_ of state. Here are two more examples:

וַתִּמָּלֵ֥א אַרְצ֖וֹ אֱלִילִ֑ים לְמַעֲשֵׂ֤ה יָדָיו֙ יִֽשְׁתַּחֲו֔וּ לַאֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשׂ֖וּ אֶצְבְּעֹתָֽיו׃
וַיִּשַּׁ֥ח אָדָ֖ם וַיִּשְׁפַּל־אִ֑ישׁ וְאַל־תִּשָּׂ֖א לָהֶֽם׃
(ישעיהו ב ח-ט)

Their land has been filled with idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made. So, humanity has been humbled and man has been abased, but do not forgive them.

לָכֵ֗ן הִרְחִ֤יבָה שְּׁאוֹל֙ נַפְשָׁ֔הּ וּפָעֲרָ֥ה פִ֖יהָ לִבְלִי־חֹ֑ק וְיָרַ֨ד הֲדָרָ֧הּ וַהֲמוֹנָ֛הּ וּשְׁאוֹנָ֖הּ וְעָלֵ֥ז בָּֽהּ׃
וַיִּשַּׁ֥ח אָדָ֖ם וַיִּשְׁפַּל־אִ֑ישׁ וְעֵינֵ֥י גְבֹהִ֖ים תִּשְׁפַּֽלְנָה׃
וַיִּגְבַּ֛הּ יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת בַּמִּשְׁפָּ֑ט וְהָאֵל֙ הַקָּד֔וֹשׁ נִקְדָּ֖שׁ בִּצְדָקָֽה׃
וְרָע֥וּ כְבָשִׂ֖ים כְּדׇבְרָ֑ם וְחׇרְב֥וֹת מֵחִ֖ים גָּרִ֥ים יֹאכֵֽלוּ׃
(ישעיהו ה יד-יז)

Therefore, Sheol enlarges its throat and opens its mouth without measure; and her splendor, turmoil, and uproar, and the jubilant, descend into it. So, humanity has been humbled and man has been abased and the eyes of the lofty will be abased, but Yahweh of hosts has become exalted in judgment, and the holy God shows Himself as holy by righteousness. Then lambs will graze as in their pasture, and strangers will eat the sites of ruins of fatling sheep.


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## Drink

You don't seem to grasp the fact that more examples are not going to prove that it _only_ has that meaning.


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## zaw

Actually, as John Cook writes, whenever you have vav-consecutive followed by ANY prefix conjugation verb (whether it’s stative or not), then the verb is tensed. That means that it is primarily marked for tense. In fact, the past tense. So, וַיִּגְבַּ֛הּ יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת must mean that the Lord of armies became exalted (at some point in the past)


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## Drink

Why do you "became"? Could it not just mean "was"?

And besides, I do believe that such generalizations are over-generalizations. There are cases where the vav-consecutive followed by a prefix-conjugation actually refers to the future.


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## Ali Smith

Drink said:


> Why do you "became"? Could it not just mean "was"?



Perhaps because "was" would mean that Y----- is no longer exalted?



Drink said:


> And besides, I do believe that such generalizations are over-generalizations. There are cases where the vav-consecutive followed by a prefix-conjugation actually refers to the future.



Could you give me an example? Thanks!


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> Perhaps because "was" would mean that Y----- is no longer exalted?



Why would it necessarily mean that? That's a silly assumption. If I said "Yesterday, I climbed a mountain. The mountain was very high." does my use of "was" imply that that mountain is no longer high? Of course not.

Your interpretation, using "become" does however imply that he was once not exalted.




Ali Smith said:


> Could you give me an example? Thanks!



I believe you have given such examples yourself, have you not?

Anyway, I don't have my copy of Joüon and Muraoka available to me at the moment, but it gives such examples. Perhaps you should get yourself a copy? The chapter on the usage of the various verbal forms will help you a lot.


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## Madeeha719

If vav-consecutive + stative prefix conjugation verb means the same thing as a stative suffix conjugation verb, what's the point of using the former structure? Why not just use a stative suffix conjugation verb?


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## Abaye

Madeeha719 said:


> If vav-consecutive + stative prefix conjugation verb means the same thing as a stative suffix conjugation verb, what's the point of using the former structure? Why not just use a stative suffix conjugation verb?


If I understand the question, you ask what waw-consecutive is good for if we can say the same without it. This question may apply to any verb, not necessarily stative. Such a question seems futile, the biblical language uses this structure regardless of whether there are other possible ways to express the same.


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## Drink

The simplest thing to say is that if you have a vav, you the verb will most likely be vav-consecutive. Simple as that. If you need the vav for whichever of its meanings, and the vav is attached to a verb, 90% of the time it will be vav-consecutive.


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## zj73

Haskol said:


> I would not recommend mixing in theological views with textual or linguistic analysis. People of the past didn't necessarily have the same theological views that readers today have and even in cases where they might, these are poetic texts and they have wide poetic license to use flowery language and emotional imagery.
> 
> In this case, yes, it means "and he rose" and "he became holy".


I totally agree. We should not be concerned with theology when looking at linguistic usage.


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## Ali Smith

Regarding the original question I would say that one should compile a list of stative verbs (all of which will be in the G-stem, of course) and use a concordance of the Bible to find relevant forms, i.e. waw-retentive + prefix-conjugation verb. When looking at the data, it will be essential to distinguish: 1. examples that must be an event rather than a state, 2. examples that must be a state rather than an event, and 3. examples in which a state is consistent with the context but so is an event. As far as I know, there are no examples of the second group.



zj73 said:


> I totally agree. We should not be concerned with theology when looking at linguistic usage.



If the only examples in the second category are those in which a state is predicated of God, then one must tread carefully. It has been said that although God can't undergo a change of state, one cannot allow theology to drive grammatical analysis. I do not agree! The theology of the writers may have dictated their usage, but that was a linguistic usage, not a theological usage, i.e., they were expressing their view of things in their language in a non-linguistic fashion, as native speakers of the language, not as modern grammarians.


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## Drink

I think the crucial point is that we must not assume that our modern understanding of theology (or for that matter, of sociology, science, and even language itself) is the same as theirs.

For example, if an ancient text says something that presumes that the heart is the organ of thought, we cannot say "this doesn't make sense, because you think with your brain rather than your heart". Rather we must understand that at the time the text was composed, there were different views of things than there are today.

Furthermore, we must never even be certain that what we _think_ people at the time believed is _actually_ what people at the time believed.


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## zaw

What do you mean by event? Do you mean a change of state? If so, here is an instance of waw-retentive + stative prefix conjugation verb that must be an event. The reason is a state would not be consistent with the context.

וַתֹּ֣אמֶר שָׂרָ֔ה צְחֹ֕ק עָ֥שָׂה לִ֖י אֱלֹהִ֑ים כׇּל־הַשֹּׁמֵ֖עַ יִֽצְחַק־לִֽי׃
וַתֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֤י מִלֵּל֙ לְאַבְרָהָ֔ם הֵינִ֥יקָה בָנִ֖ים שָׂרָ֑ה כִּֽי־יָלַ֥דְתִּי בֵ֖ן לִזְקֻנָֽיו׃
וַיִּגְדַּ֥ל הַיֶּ֖לֶד וַיִּגָּמַ֑ל וַיַּ֤עַשׂ אַבְרָהָם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֣ה גָד֔וֹל בְּי֖וֹם הִגָּמֵ֥ל אֶת־יִצְחָֽק׃
(בראשית כא ו-ח)

And Sarah said, "God has made laughter for me. Everyone who hears will laugh with me." And she said, "Who would announce to Abraham that Sarah would suckle sons? For I have given birth to a son in his old age." And the child grew up and he was weaned and Abraham held a big banquet on the day of the weaning of Isaac.


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## Drink

We've discussed this verse several times already. You can understand it either as a state or as a change of state. "And the child was grown" fits just as well as "And the child grew up".


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## Ali Smith

Doesn't the context clearly indicate transition? How else does the reader go from

וַתֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֤י מִלֵּל֙ לְאַבְרָהָ֔ם הֵינִ֥יקָה בָנִ֖ים שָׂרָ֑ה כִּֽי־יָלַ֥דְתִּי בֵ֖ן לִזְקֻנָֽיו׃
to
וַיִּגְדַּ֥ל הַיֶּ֖לֶד?


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> Doesn't the context clearly indicate transition? How else does the reader go from
> 
> וַתֹּ֗אמֶר מִ֤י מִלֵּל֙ לְאַבְרָהָ֔ם הֵינִ֥יקָה בָנִ֖ים שָׂרָ֑ה כִּֽי־יָלַ֥דְתִּי בֵ֖ן לִזְקֻנָֽיו׃
> to
> וַיִּגְדַּ֥ל הַיֶּ֖לֶד?


The context clearly indicates that there _was_ a transition. But it's not clear whether the transition takes place within the verb or before it.


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## 𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉

Here vav-consecutive + stative prefix verb clearly means a change of state, not a state:

וּכְכַלּוֹתָם הֵבִיאוּ לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ וִיהוֹיָדָע אֶת שְׁאָר הַכֶּסֶף וַיַּעֲשֵׂהוּ כֵלִים לְבֵית יְהוָה כְּלֵי שָׁרֵת וְהַעֲלוֹת וְכַפּוֹת וּכְלֵי זָהָב וָכָסֶף וַיִּהְיוּ מַעֲלִים עֹלוֹת בְּבֵית יְהוָה תָּמִיד כֹּל יְמֵי יְהוֹיָדָע.
וַיִּזְקַן יְהוֹיָדָע וַיִּשְׂבַּע יָמִים וַיָּמֹת בֶּן מֵאָה וּשְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה בְּמוֹתוֹ.
וַיִּקְבְּרֻהוּ בְעִיר דָּוִיד עִם הַמְּלָכִים כִּי עָשָׂה טוֹבָה בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וְעִם הָאֱלֹהִים וּבֵיתוֹ.
(Books of Chronicles 2 24:14-16)


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## Ali Smith

𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉: If you're talking about וַיִּזְקַן, then I agree with you.

וּכְכַלּוֹתָם הֵבִיאוּ לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ וִיהוֹיָדָע אֶת שְׁאָר הַכֶּסֶף וַיַּעֲשֵׂהוּ כֵלִים לְבֵית יְהוָה כְּלֵי שָׁרֵת וְהַעֲלוֹת וְכַפּוֹת וּכְלֵי זָהָב וָכָסֶף וַיִּהְיוּ מַעֲלִים עֹלוֹת בְּבֵית יְהוָה תָּמִיד כֹּל יְמֵי יְהוֹיָדָע.
וַיִּזְקַן יְהוֹיָדָע וַיִּשְׂבַּע יָמִים וַיָּמֹת בֶּן מֵאָה וּשְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה בְּמוֹתוֹ.
וַיִּקְבְּרֻהוּ בְעִיר דָּוִיד עִם הַמְּלָכִים כִּי עָשָׂה טוֹבָה בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וְעִם הָאֱלֹהִים וּבֵיתוֹ.
(דברי הימים ב כד יד-טז)

When they had finished, they brought the rest of the silver before the king and Jehoiada, and they made it into vessels for the house of Yahweh, vessels for the service and the burnt offering and pans and vessels of gold and silver. And they offered burnt offerings in the house of the Yahweh continually all the days of Jehoiada. But Jehoiada became old and full of days and died; he was one hundred and thirty years old at his death, and they buried him in David's city together with the kings because he had done good in Israel with respect to God and His house.


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## Drink

I'd say it's still not so clear. Just like in the previous example, it could be that the change of state is within the verb, or it could be that the change of state precedes the verb. Like "and (some time later) Yehoyada was old and full of days and he died".


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## 𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉

Drink said:


> I'd say it's still not so clear. Just like in the previous example, it could be that the change of state is within the verb, or it could be that the change of state precedes the verb. Like "and (some time later) Yehoyada was old and full of days and he died".


It's as clear as can be. There is no way it could be anything but a change of state. And look at this:

רְבָבָ֗ה כְּצֶ֤מַח הַשָּׂדֶה֙ נְתַתִּ֔יךְ וַתִּרְבִּי֙ וַֽתִּגְדְּלִ֔י וַתָּבֹ֖אִי בַּעֲדִ֣י עֲדָיִ֑ים שָׁדַ֤יִם נָכֹ֙נוּ֙ וּשְׂעָרֵ֣ךְ צִמֵּ֔חַ וְאַ֖תְּ עֵרֹ֥ם וְעֶרְיָֽה׃
(Ezekiel 16:7)

This, too, cannot be anything but a change of state.


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## Drink

𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> It's as clear as can be. There is no way it could be anything but a change of state.


If you are having trouble understanding the alternative I explanation I gave, I can try to explain it better. But I assure you, it is not "clear as day" once you recognize that there is this alternative.



𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> And look at this:
> 
> רְבָבָ֗ה כְּצֶ֤מַח הַשָּׂדֶה֙ נְתַתִּ֔יךְ וַתִּרְבִּי֙ וַֽתִּגְדְּלִ֔י וַתָּבֹ֖אִי בַּעֲדִ֣י עֲדָיִ֑ים שָׁדַ֤יִם נָכֹ֙נוּ֙ וּשְׂעָרֵ֣ךְ צִמֵּ֔חַ וְאַ֖תְּ עֵרֹ֥ם וְעֶרְיָֽה׃
> (Ezekiel 16:7)
> 
> This, too, cannot be anything but a change of state.


I agree that in this example my alternative interpretation doesn't fit the meaning. So here it is much clearer.


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## Ali Smith

Why? Why can't וַתִּרְבִּי be interpreted as stative? Or were you talking about וַתִּגְדְּלִי?


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> Why? Why can't וַתִּרְבִּי be interpreted as stative? Or were you talking about וַתִּגְדְּלִי?


I mean ותרבי and ותגדלי here should be interpreted in the same way, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

What is your interpretation of this verse if these are indicating a state and not a change of state?


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## Ali Smith

רְבָבָ֗ה כְּצֶ֤מַח הַשָּׂדֶה֙ נְתַתִּ֔יךְ וַתִּרְבִּי֙ וַֽתִּגְדְּלִ֔י וַתָּבֹ֖אִי בַּעֲדִ֣י עֲדָיִ֑ים שָׁדַ֤יִם נָכֹ֙נוּ֙ וּשְׂעָרֵ֣ךְ צִמֵּ֔חַ וְאַ֖תְּ עֵרֹ֥ם וְעֶרְיָֽה׃
(יחזקאל טז ז)

I have given you a very great quantity like the sprouting of the field and you were numerous and you were big and you entered into jewelry of jewelries. Breasts were firm and your hair grew abundantly and you are nakedness and bareness.

There most certainly was a change of state, but it may have preceded the verbs in question.


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## Abaye

What this discussion is about? One forum member says that גדל is used as either stative or dynamic (ie non-stative), other members show that it is stative in many cases. There's no contradiction between these two. So is there a claim that גדל is only stative? But in that case why we have גדול as a stative adjective for גדל but we don't have שמון for root שמנ, or זקון for root זקנ? IMHO גדול may be required because גָדֵל is ambiguous. Also see this verse that was mentioned already in the thread:


> וַיִּגְדַּל הָאִישׁ וַיֵּלֶךְ הָלוֹךְ וְגָדֵל עַד כִּי *גָדַל* מְאֹד


The last גָדַל is not the standard stative perf. 3rd sing. masc., which (this too is IMHO) may hint that this root was in use for both stative and dynamic and therefore it was easy to get confused, like the colloquial Hebrew popular conjugation of גדל as dynamic.

Or maybe the claim is that גדל is always stative WHEN appears as waw consecutive + imperfect? But is there any other example where a root changes its stativeness in such situation?

גָּדֵל או גּוֹדֵל? יָשֵׁן או יוֹשֵׁן? - האקדמיה ללשון העברית


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## Drink

The discussion is whether there is an example where vav-hahipuch + prefix conjugation can ever have a purely stative meaning that cannot also be interpreted as a dynamic change-of-state.


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> רְבָבָ֗ה כְּצֶ֤מַח הַשָּׂדֶה֙ נְתַתִּ֔יךְ וַתִּרְבִּי֙ וַֽתִּגְדְּלִ֔י וַתָּבֹ֖אִי בַּעֲדִ֣י עֲדָיִ֑ים שָׁדַ֤יִם נָכֹ֙נוּ֙ וּשְׂעָרֵ֣ךְ צִמֵּ֔חַ וְאַ֖תְּ עֵרֹ֥ם וְעֶרְיָֽה׃
> (יחזקאל טז ז)
> 
> I have given you a very great quantity like the sprouting of the field and you were numerous and you were big and you entered into jewelry of jewelries. Breasts were firm and your hair grew abundantly and you are nakedness and bareness.
> 
> There most certainly was a change of state, but it may have preceded the verbs in question.


I get it. I think the key point is you interpret נתתיך as a pluperfect here. Right, so it's another case where both options can make sense.


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## S1234

What about in

וְלָרָ֣שׁ אֵֽין־כֹּ֗ל כִּי֩ אִם־כִּבְשָׂ֨ה אַחַ֤ת קְטַנָּה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר קָנָ֔ה וַיְחַיֶּ֕הָ וַתִּגְדַּ֥ל עִמּ֛וֹ וְעִם־בָּנָ֖יו יַחְדָּ֑ו מִפִּתּ֨וֹ תֹאכַ֜ל וּמִכֹּס֤וֹ תִשְׁתֶּה֙ וּבְחֵיק֣וֹ תִשְׁכָּ֔ב וַתְּהִי־ל֖וֹ כְּבַֽת׃
from Samuel 2 12:3

Can this be a state as well as a change of state or only the latter?


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## Drink

This is a great example. Here I think it's pretty clear it's a change of state. It wouldn't make much sense as a state.


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## USani

S1234 said:


> this be a state as well as a change of state or only the latter?


You will find 1. verbs that can only be a change of state and 2. verbs that may be a change of state and may be a state. But you will never find 3. a verb that is only a state. I am talking about vav-consecutive + stative prefix conjugation verbs, of course.


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## risotto

Usani: What about this?

וּמִן־הָאַחַ֣ת מֵהֶ֔ם יָצָ֥א קֶֽרֶן־אַחַ֖ת מִצְּעִירָ֑ה וַתִּגְדַּל־יֶ֛תֶר אֶל־הַנֶּ֥גֶב וְאֶל־הַמִּזְרָ֖ח וְאֶל־הַצֶּֽבִי׃
וַתִּגְדַּ֖ל עַד־צְבָ֣א הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַתַּפֵּ֥ל אַ֛רְצָה מִן־הַצָּבָ֥א וּמִן־הַכּוֹכָבִ֖ים וַֽתִּרְמְסֵֽם׃
(Daniel 8:9 & 10)

There is no way the two וַתִּגְדַּלs could be a change of state; they represent states for sure.


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## Ali Smith

risotto said:


> Usani: What about this?
> 
> וּמִן־הָאַחַ֣ת מֵהֶ֔ם יָצָ֥א קֶֽרֶן־אַחַ֖ת מִצְּעִירָ֑ה וַתִּגְדַּל־יֶ֛תֶר אֶל־הַנֶּ֥גֶב וְאֶל־הַמִּזְרָ֖ח וְאֶל־הַצֶּֽבִי׃
> וַתִּגְדַּ֖ל עַד־צְבָ֣א הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַתַּפֵּ֥ל אַ֛רְצָה מִן־הַצָּבָ֥א וּמִן־הַכּוֹכָבִ֖ים וַֽתִּרְמְסֵֽם׃
> (Daniel 8:9 & 10)
> 
> There is no way the two וַתִּגְדַּלs could be a change of state; they represent states for sure.


Why can't they represent a change of state?

וּמִן־הָאַחַ֣ת מֵהֶ֔ם יָצָ֥א קֶֽרֶן־אַחַ֖ת מִצְּעִירָ֑ה וַתִּגְדַּל־יֶ֛תֶר אֶל־הַנֶּ֥גֶב וְאֶל־הַמִּזְרָ֖ח וְאֶל־הַצֶּֽבִי׃
וַתִּגְדַּ֖ל עַד־צְבָ֣א הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַתַּפֵּ֥ל אַ֛רְצָה מִן־הַצָּבָ֥א וּמִן־הַכּוֹכָבִ֖ים וַֽתִּרְמְסֵֽם׃
(דניאל ח ט-י)

And out of one of them came one horn from a small one and it became big excessively toward the south and toward the east and toward the beauty. And it became big as far as the army of the sky and it made some of the army and some of the stars fall earthward and it trampled them.


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## 𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉

That seems rather far-fetched, Ali.


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## 𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉

וַיֵּ֗רֶד וַיִּטְבֹּ֤ל בַּיַּרְדֵּן֙ שֶׁ֣בַע פְּעָמִ֔ים כִּדְבַ֖ר אִ֣ישׁ הָאֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיָּ֣שׇׁב בְּשָׂר֗וֹ כִּבְשַׂ֛ר נַ֥עַר קָטֹ֖ן וַיִּטְהָֽר׃
(2 Kings 5:14)

Here the verb could be either a state or a change of state. But in Risotto's example (post 76) it is clearly a state, not a change of state.


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## Drink

𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> That seems rather far-fetched, Ali.


Why?


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## Ali Smith

𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉 has a point. The context indicates that the goat had already grown big, i.e. the change of state had already taken place. Observe:

וּרְאִיתִ֞יו מַגִּ֣יעַ ׀ אֵ֣צֶל הָאַ֗יִל וַיִּתְמַרְמַ֤ר אֵלָיו֙ וַיַּ֣ךְ אֶת־הָאַ֔יִל וַיְשַׁבֵּר֙ אֶת־שְׁתֵּ֣י קְרָנָ֔יו וְלֹא־הָ֥יָה כֹ֛חַ בָּאַ֖יִל לַעֲמֹ֣ד לְפָנָ֑יו וַיַּשְׁלִיכֵ֤הוּ אַ֙רְצָה֙ וַֽיִּרְמְסֵ֔הוּ וְלֹא־הָיָ֥ה מַצִּ֛יל לָאַ֖יִל מִיָּדֽוֹ׃
וּצְפִ֥יר הָעִזִּ֖ים הִגְדִּ֣יל עַד־מְאֹ֑ד וּכְעׇצְמ֗וֹ נִשְׁבְּרָה֙ הַקֶּ֣רֶן הַגְּדֹלָ֔ה וַֽתַּעֲלֶ֜נָה חָז֤וּת אַרְבַּע֙ תַּחְתֶּ֔יהָ לְאַרְבַּ֖ע רוּח֥וֹת הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃
וּמִן־הָאַחַ֣ת מֵהֶ֔ם יָצָ֥א קֶֽרֶן־אַחַ֖ת מִצְּעִירָ֑ה וַתִּגְדַּל־יֶ֛תֶר אֶל־הַנֶּ֥גֶב וְאֶל־הַמִּזְרָ֖ח וְאֶל־הַצֶּֽבִי׃
וַתִּגְדַּ֖ל עַד־צְבָ֣א הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַתַּפֵּ֥ל אַ֛רְצָה מִן־הַצָּבָ֥א וּמִן־הַכּוֹכָבִ֖ים וַֽתִּרְמְסֵֽם׃
(דניאל ח ז-י)


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## Drink

I don't see the problem with that. Repeating the fact that it grew doesn't mean that it can't mean "grew". Try putting in the English word "grew" as the translation, and you'll see that it's quite plausible.


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## 𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉

𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> וַיֵּ֗רֶד וַיִּטְבֹּ֤ל בַּיַּרְדֵּן֙ שֶׁ֣בַע פְּעָמִ֔ים כִּדְבַ֖ר אִ֣ישׁ הָאֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיָּ֣שׇׁב בְּשָׂר֗וֹ כִּבְשַׂ֛ר נַ֥עַר קָטֹ֖ן וַיִּטְהָֽר׃
> (2 Kings 5:14)
> 
> Here the verb could be either a state or a change of state.


Come to think of it, this has to he a change of state too.


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## Drink

𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> Come to think of it, this has to he a change of state too.


Why "has to be"? It could be either one:

- "And his flesh returned to the flesh of a young lad, and (then) he was pure."
- "And his flesh returned to the flesh of a young lad, and he became pure."


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## zaw

Because initially he was not pure. A change took place. Isn't that obvious? וַיִּטְהָֽר says the change took place. How else would you know that a change took place?


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## Drink

You're confusing two things. Regardless of whether the verb is indicating a state or a change of state, it could tell us about a change that took place either way.

Let me give you the following examples in English:
- The man was young, and then he became old.
- The man was young, and then he was old.

In _both_ sentences, the second part tells us that a change of state _happened_. However, in the first sentence it tells us using a verb that indicates a change of state in itself, while in the second sentence it tells us using a verb that indicates the new state, implying that the change took place.

So when we're talking about the function of verb forms, merely stating that the verb is telling us that something happened does not prove that _how_ the verb is telling us that.


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## Aleppan

If you want a real ambiguous case (unlike the previous one) look at Judges 19:4

וַיַּחֲזֶק־בּ֤וֹ חֹתְנוֹ֙ אֲבִ֣י הַֽנַּעֲרָ֔ה וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב אִתּ֖וֹ שְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת יָמִ֑ים וַיֹּאכְלוּ֙ וַיִּשְׁתּ֔וּ וַיָּלִ֖ינוּ שָֽׁם׃

The verb וַיַּחֲזֶק could mean either state or change of state.


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## Ali Smith

Aleppan said:


> If you want a real ambiguous case (unlike the previous one) look at Judges 19:4
> 
> וַיַּחֲזֶק־בּ֤וֹ חֹתְנוֹ֙ אֲבִ֣י הַֽנַּעֲרָ֔ה וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב אִתּ֖וֹ שְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת יָמִ֑ים וַיֹּאכְלוּ֙ וַיִּשְׁתּ֔וּ וַיָּלִ֖ינוּ שָֽׁם׃
> 
> The verb וַיַּחֲזֶק could mean either state or change of state.


Absolutely not. It is clearly a change of state. Look at the translation:

וַיַּחֲזֶק־בּ֤וֹ חֹתְנוֹ֙ אֲבִ֣י הַֽנַּעֲרָ֔ה וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב אִתּ֖וֹ שְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת יָמִ֑ים וַיֹּאכְלוּ֙ וַיִּשְׁתּ֔וּ וַיָּלִ֖ינוּ שָֽׁם׃
(שופטים יט ד)

His father-in-law, the girl's father, detained him, and he stayed with him three days, and they ate and drank and spent the nights there.


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## flockhat

Why can't וַיַּחֲזֶק represent a state?


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## Drink

It certainly can. I think most of the time people in this thread who say "this example can't mean that" are just not managing to reframe their perspective.


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## Ali Smith

וַיַּחֲזֶק־בּ֤וֹ חֹתְנוֹ֙ אֲבִ֣י הַֽנַּעֲרָ֔ה וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב אִתּ֖וֹ שְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת יָמִ֑ים וַיֹּאכְלוּ֙ וַיִּשְׁתּ֔וּ וַיָּלִ֖ינוּ שָֽׁם׃
(שופטים יט ד)

His father-in-law, the girl's father, detained him, and he stayed with him three days, and they ate and drank and spent the nights there.

How would you translate וַיַּחֲזֶק if it represented a state?


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> How would you translate וַיַּחֲזֶק if it represented a state?


"Was stronger than".

"Detained" is already a non-literal translation anyway. If I were to translate it more literally under the dynamic interpretation, I'd use the word "overpowered."

And in any case, you cannot use an English translation as proof of the Hebrew grammar.


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## 𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉

"was stronger than" would require the preposition מן, not ב.


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## Drink

𒋛𒄠 𒂵𒉿𒀉 said:


> "was stronger than" would require the preposition מן, not ב.


What makes you say that?


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## S1234

Everybody knows that in order to make an adjective or stative verb comparative or superlative you have to use מן. Lambdin says so.


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## Drink

S1234 said:


> Everybody knows that in order to make an adjective or stative verb comparative or superlative you have to use מן. Lambdin says so.


Yes, so what? Since when does there have to be only one way to do something?

Besides, here it's not strictly a comparative. It's more to do with overpowering. "He was strong enough to overpower him" could maybe get the idea across better.


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## Drink

Oh wait, I have to backtrack on everything I said about וַיַּחֲזֶק.

I just realized it is וַיַּחֲזֶק and not וַיֶּחֱזַק. This indicates it is hif'il, and thus an active verb.

So perhaps "detained" is a more accurate translation after all. Or "grabbed" or "siezed".


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## Abaye

Ali Smith said:


> His father-in-law, the girl's father, detained him





Drink said:


> So perhaps "detained" is a more accurate translation after all. Or "grabbed" or "siezed".



Retained, detained, prevailed on, made (him) stay.

Please see some standard translations: Judges 19:4, we don't have to be Champollions.
​


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## Ali Smith

Drink said:


> Oh wait, I have to backtrack on everything I said about וַיַּחֲזֶק.
> 
> I just realized it is וַיַּחֲזֶק and not וַיֶּחֱזַק. This indicates it is hif'il, and thus an active verb.
> 
> So perhaps "detained" is a more accurate translation after all. Or "grabbed" or "siezed".


Don't the פתח in the first syllable fool you. It could be hif'il but it could also be qal. Cf. יַעֲבֹד 'he will work/serve' and יַעֲמֹד 'he will stand'.


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> Don't the פתח in the first syllable fool you. It could be hif'il but it could also be qal. Cf. יַעֲבֹד 'he will work/serve' and יַעֲמֹד 'he will stand'.


What do יַעֲבֹד and יַעֲמֹד have to do with anything? The qal form for this verb is יֶחֱזַק not יַחֲזֹק or יַחֲזֵק. You must holistically look at the whole form, not just one vowel.


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## risotto

What about Samuel 1 7.2?

וַיְהִ֗י מִיּ֞וֹם שֶׁ֤בֶת הָאָרוֹן֙ בְּקִרְיַ֣ת יְעָרִ֔ים וַיִּרְבּוּ֙ הַיָּמִ֔ים וַיִּהְי֖וּ עֶשְׂרִ֣ים שָׁנָ֑ה וַיִּנָּה֛וּ כׇּל־בֵּ֥ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל אַחֲרֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה׃

The verb וַיִּרְבּוּ֙ clearly means a change of state, because the days increased, right?


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## S1234

It sure does!


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## Drink

Not necessarily. You can interpret it as static as follows: "And it was, from the day of ... that the days were many and they were twenty years."


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## S1234

Here is another example:

וּכְכַלּוֹתָם הֵבִיאוּ לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ וִיהוֹיָדָע אֶת שְׁאָר הַכֶּסֶף וַיַּעֲשֵׂהוּ כֵלִים לְבֵית יְהוָה כְּלֵי שָׁרֵת וְהַעֲלוֹת וְכַפּוֹת וּכְלֵי זָהָב וָכָסֶף וַיִּהְיוּ מַעֲלִים עֹלוֹת בְּבֵית יְהוָה תָּמִיד כֹּל יְמֵי יְהוֹיָדָע.
וַיִּזְקַן יְהוֹיָדָע וַיִּשְׂבַּע יָמִים וַיָּמֹת בֶּן מֵאָה וּשְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה בְּמוֹתוֹ.
וַיִּקְבְּרֻהוּ בְעִיר דָּוִיד עִם הַמְּלָכִים כִּי עָשָׂה טוֹבָה בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וְעִם הָאֱלֹהִים וּבֵיתוֹ.
(דברי הימים ב כד יד)

And וַיִּזְקַן יְהוֹיָדָע וַיִּשְׂבַּע יָמִים וַיָּמֹת clearly means “Yehoyada BECAME old and full of days and died.”


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## Drink

How is this example different from the dozens of other examples we've had here already?


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## amikama

Moderator note:

The thread has run its course. Quoting more examples from the Bible adds nothing useful or insightful to this discussion.
It's time to close this thread.

Thank you all for your contributions,

amikama
Hebrew forum moderator


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