# Ways to address people



## DareRyan

Нужно говоритъ ещё господин и госпожу, или есть новое слово? Excuse my Russian, it is my second day and I am struggling bit. In case it is completely incomprehensible my intention was to say "Are the words 'Gospodin and gospozhna' still used?" My text was published before the fall of the USSR and I was curious to know if the title had changed hence. There is not much sense afterall in learning an outdated word. Благодарю Вас!


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## wanderer

yes, these words are still used... 'Gospodin' and 'gospozha' were kind of forbiden words in USSR , but after big red country had vanished, these two came back and now are commonly used instead of 'tovarisch'(=comrade) ))

Well actually it is more of a written and diplomatic/business style. You probably won't face them a lot in the spoken language.


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## DareRyan

What would one use in place of these words in direct address if they are mainly used in the writtin language? 

P.S. How is it that my cyrillic is showing up as random Latin characters?

Thanks!


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## Jana337

DareRyan said:
			
		

> P.S. How is it that my cyrillic is showing up as random Latin characters?
> 
> Thanks!


Change the encoding in your browser (the option should be called View in the top tool bar) to Cyrillic.

Jana


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## wanderer

DareRyan said:
			
		

> What would one use in place of these words in direct address if they are mainly used in the writtin language?
> 
> P.S. How is it that my cyrillic is showing up as random Latin characters?
> 
> Thanks!


It depends on the situation. The most common and polite I'd say would be the following:
For a lady you would say 'девушка' or 'сударыня'. 'Госпожа' would also sound good, yet it's more formal way. The last and the least liked by me is 'женщина'. Unfortunately it is widely used, mostly in the spoken language, but for me it always sounded a little bit harsh.

For a gentleman you may say 'молодой человек' if he is young...well not old I'd say


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## Anatoli

DareRyan said:
			
		

> What would one use in place of these words in direct address if they are mainly used in the writtin language?
> Thanks!


 Very often with people you know, you would use first name + *patronymic*:

Николай Петр*ович*
Елена Серге*евна*

The above form is very common and can be used in formal situations as well.

Using *господин/госпожа* without the surname doesn't sound right, same as just saying Mister, so offcially it should be господин/госпожа + surname or title (president, etc.). Addressing господин/госпожа with no surname/title is not correct, strictly speaking (but some people do!). The other words: *сударь/сударыня/барышня* (sir/madam/miss) were not resurrected like господин/госпожа were.

You'll find that this topic makes some people nervous, there are people who simply don't like to be addressed господин/госпожа (nothing to do with the communist past but habits are very strong). That's why people may use *молодой человек/девушка* (young man/girl) for addressing, sounds ridiculous when addressing people of older age. Some people avoid any address words, just use "*извините, пожалуйста*".

In the Russian army and police (militia) *товарищ* is still used officially, e.g.  *товарищ генерал, товарищ полковник* (comrade general, comrade colonel.

*Господин/госпожа* is now used in formal letters. When addressing public *дамы и господа* could be used.Politicians or TV commentators, when in doubt would use neither *дамы и господа*, nor *товарищи* but *дорогие друзья* (dear friends), *соотечественники* (compatriots), etc..


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## Anatoli

Wanderer posted seconds before me. Yes, *женщина* (woman) doesn't sound like a good address form but it's used as well.

I am for reviving words *сударь/сударыня/барышня,* even *милостивый государь*, which you can come across mainly in older literature and abolishing *товарищ *in the army and police but some will accuse me of being anti-communist, pro-American, whatever... Well we were indoctrinated with *товарищ*, why not  recall  our past and return those words to common use?


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## wanderer

Totally agree with Anatoli. These 'old' words sounds very nice, and actually I've noticed that they pleasing people much more then 'modern' 'мужик', 'женщина' and 'эй ты в красной кепке, да да ты'...


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## Anatoli

In Russian translated literature foreign forms of address are often transliterated, not translated. French, English, German, Italian and Scandianavian words are well-known and transliterated as месье, мадам, мадмуазель, мистер, миссис, мисс, сэр, герр (Herr), фрау, фройляйн, синьор, синьора, синьорита, фру, фрёкен. The French forms were also in common use before the 1917 Revolution.


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## cajzl

Do you know or use (e.g. in the translated literature) the West Slavic forms *пан/паня*?


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## Anatoli

cajzl said:
			
		

> Do you know or use (e.g. in the translated literature) the West Slavic forms *пан/паня*?


*It's пан/пани/панна*. Yes, these are used as well when referring to West Slavs and not so often Ukrainians (but there are some novels where it's used to refer to Ukrainians). That's the Ukrainian version of both господин/госпожа/- сударь/сударыня/барышня (the latter words аре not in common use at the moment). Czech word for "panÍ  " has long vowel "i" and has an accent mark. Not sure about the Slovak. It makes no difference in Russian, though, we don't have explicit long vowels.

We had an entertainment TV show long ago where all characters were Polish - "13 стульев", they spoke Russian but used пан/пани/панна for addressing  - пан директор, пан Вотруба, пани Катажина, etc.

In Ukrainian army/police we have a situation: when speaking Russian they use *товарищ*, when speaking Ukrainian - *пан*. ?!?

By the way in Belarusian it's *Спадар/Спадарыня/Спадарычна* (Mr/Mrs/Miss, Sir/Madam/Miss) but not many Russians know this.


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## wanderer

'пан/панi/паненка' is also widely used in belarusian, especially in the western regions... 

btw, I never ever heard one said 'спадарычна'. It doesn't sound as a noun, it more sound like an adverb for ending 'ычна' is common for adverbs('музычна, прагаматычна, матэматычна...')  . Usually it's just Спадар or Спадарыня.


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## Anatoli

wanderer said:
			
		

> 'пан/панi/паненка' is also widely used in belarusian, especially in the western regions...
> 
> btw, I never ever heard one said 'спадарычна'. It doesn't sound as a noun, it more sound like an adverb for ending 'ычна' is common for adverbs('музычна, прагаматычна, матэматычна...')  . Usually it's just Спадар or Спадарыня.


You must mean adjective, not adverb. Never heard it either, copied from somewhere in Wikepedia. The issue with what you hear in Belarus more often is that the Belarusian language is always secondary there, more often it's Russian and sometimes Polish but that's a different topic.


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## wanderer

Yeah you're right  it also can be used as an adjective 

Regarding Belarusian language. What you say is totally true for cities. In the country people mostly speaking either mixed language(трасянка  or locally modified  version of the belarusian(like say with lot's of polish words in the west). However country is dying and less and less people are speaking belarusian language...so I guess it doesn't really matter...


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## cyanista

Anatoli said:
			
		

> You must mean adjective, not adverb.


Some hair-splitting on my part:
Mузычна, прагматычна, матэматычна are all adverbs even if a Russian finds it hard to believe.  Adjectives would be музычная, прагматычны, матэматычнае..



> Never heard it either, copied from somewhere in Wikepedia. The issue with what you hear in Belarus more often is that the Belarusian language is always secondary there, more often it's Russian and sometimes Polish but that's a different topic.


It deserves its own thread, or several...


Returning to the subject, господин and госпожа still sound very stilted. If someone called me "госпожа N"  I would probably burst out laughing!


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## Anatoli

cyanista said:
			
		

> Returning to the subject, господин and госпожа still sound very stilted. If someone called me "госпожа N"  I would probably burst out laughing!


 Well, that's why we don't have a proper address form that suits everyone. I mean offcial situations, not casual.

I knew people where who addressed each other господа, at first it sounded unusual and then I liked it. If I am in an official situation I have no objection to being called господин N and I don't find it amusing. Let me think of an example: let's I am calling my bank about a loan approval. Here in Australia, they will most probably call me by first name. More official would be in a court situation. Tastes differ.


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## cajzl

When the Russian president Putin was in Prague, I heard the address gospodin president or even gospodin Putin many times in the TV news. And Mr. Putin did not laugh.


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## Jana337

cajzl said:
			
		

> When the Russian president Putin was in Prague, I heard the address gospodin president or even gospodin Putin many times in the TV news.



Who addressed him like that? Our president? Journalists at a press conference?



> And Mr. Putin did not laugh.



[chat]Tough guys never laugh.[/chat]

Jana


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## cajzl

Journalists and interpreters (when somebody said "pane presidente/Putine" in Czech). But everybody meticulously avoided the address "tovaryšč Putin". The word "taváryšč/soudruh" is a slur nowadays.


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## Anatoli

What's there to laugh at? These adresses are quite common in politics, usually it's *господин Путин*. You hear them every day on TV. Never heard *товарищ Путин*, I would laugh if I heard *товaрищ президент*.


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## cyanista

cajzl said:
			
		

> When the Russian president Putin was in Prague, I heard the address gospodin president or even gospodin Putin many times in the TV news. And Mr. Putin did not laugh.



Cajzl, I think you got me wrong. There's nothing amusing about the word itself, it just sounds out of place in most *everyday* situations because it's so official. But if I were an ambassador or Minister of Finance (or a player in "What?When?Where?") I would most certainly expect to be called госпожа Cyanista.


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## übermönch

Anatoli said:
			
		

> Wanderer posted seconds before me. Yes, *женщина* (woman) doesn't sound like a good address form but it's used as well.
> 
> I am for reviving words *сударь/сударыня/барышня,* even *милостивый государь*, which you can come across mainly in older literature and abolishing *товарищ *in the army and police but some will accuse me of being anti-communist, pro-American, whatever... Well we were indoctrinated with *товарищ*, why not  recall  our past and return those words to common use?


 Reviving? These were only used by the buroisie which had too much time on it's hands. 

 Well, I, on contrary, am for using solely comrade in all languaged instead of those common "Master" forms. It existed long before communism and shouldn't be solely associated with it. It's not sexist (unlike adressing females "Woman" and males "Master" in several Germanic languages for example) and not dishonouring.


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## Anatoli

Here we go again.


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## papillon

Interestingly,
prison guards and convicts would address each other only as "гражданин" ("citizen", but commonly used as a form of addressing someone). You wouldn't think of using "господин" and even using comrade would inevitably lead to a scathing rebuttal like "тамбовский волк тебе товарищ", i.e. a Tambov wolf is your comrade, not me..


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## Anatoli

That's what is going to happen here. If that's the case I am outa' here before it gets red hot.

Russia is in need of common, accepted by all forms of address. Despite its innocent origin the word "товарищ" - comrade, Genosse, soudruh, towarzysh, etc. has a bad history, associated with the communism. It's true that other forms address were not so widely accepted (otherwise nobody would give it up easily, if it's part of day-today language) or used even before the 1917 Revolution, for example not by peasants or proletaria and they embraced being comrades (that is equal) and "down with masters/lords" - "долой господ" very happily. But we now have different times, none of the forms is dominating and people, being cautious, or just because they are not used anything else, continue with женщина!, девушка!, молодой человек!, etc.


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## Brian P

_Split from here._

Another cultural language difference is the Russian use of Женщина when addressing a female whose name you don't know.  To address a female as "woman" in any anglophone country would be very rude.


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## Setwale_Charm

It is!!! And Женщина is not the worst thing that they say in Russia!!! I can forgive that but...
I have been engaged in a constant war with certain habits of Russian males since the very beginning and have learnt the art of slaps in the face to perfection, esp. when it comes to the nasty habit of trying to get off with somebody on the street. The amazing thing is that they expect to be liked after all that.!!


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## ekhlewagastiR

Brian P said:


> Another cultural language difference is the Russian use of Женщина when addressing a female whose name you don't know. To address a female as "woman" in any anglophone country would be very rude.


 
It´s also rather rude in Russian though used by many people. At least to me it sounds very simple and rude.

Since we don´t have nothing elegant in Russian language like "madame" or "señora", I personally just try to avoid it as much as possible using just "Вы" and in the worse cases "дама" if it´s not a younger lady and "девушка" if it is. (whrn I have to say, f.ex. that..that lady was the first etc).

May be not the best way but still better than Женщина, I think


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## Anatoli

Address forms are "in crisis" in Russia, see this thread:

Формы обращения "в кризисе" в России, смотри эту ветку:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=178747

In my opinion, it's worth merging this threads, the topic is interesting and real.
По-моему, ст*о*ит эти ветки соединить, тема интересная и актуальная.


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## Setwale_Charm

ekhlewagastiR said:


> It´s also rather rude in Russian though used by many people. At least to me it sounds very simple and rude.
> 
> Since we don´t have nothing elegant in Russian language like "madame" or "señora", I personally just try to avoid it as much as possible using just "Вы" and in the worse cases "дама" if it´s not a younger lady and "девушка" if it is. (whrn I have to say, f.ex. that..that lady was the first etc).
> 
> May be not the best way but still better than Женщина, I think


Another bad thing is that there is no special form for addressing teachers but by their name and patronymic.


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## Anatoli

Setwale_Charm said:


> Another bad thing is that there is no special form for addressing teachers but by their name and patronymic.



I actually don't find that a problem, it was considered to be OK in the old Russia, Soviet era and now. First name and patronymic are good and polite in addressing people. Problem is when you don't know the person's name or if you want to use their surname or position.

 Вообще, я не считаю это проблемой, это считалось нормальным в старой России, советское время и сейчас. Имя и отчество и хороши и вежливы при обращении к людям. Проблема начинается, когда имя человека неизвестно или если хотите использовать его фамилию или должность.


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## ekhlewagastiR

Anatoli said:


> *Господин/госпожа* is now used in formal letters.


 
Just wanted to add if it´s interesting for the non-natives that, when writing a formal letter, one doesn´t use the complete word господин/ госпожа but a short form:

г-н Иванов, г-жа Сидорова

например:

Директору.........
г-ну Зайцеву В.А.

Уважаемый Виктор Алексеевич!

текст письма


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## dec-sev

Why should he laugh if a dicctionary says:
господин ; господа 1) gentleman; sir ( обращение ) 2) ( с именем или званием ) Mr.
 3) master
so *gospodin* Putin differs in no way from  *Mr* Putin. All the fuss around gospodin has so to say social background. In USSR we all were comrades. There was even a joke "Господа в Париже" (М. Булгаков) Собачье сердце, if I'm not mistaken. I'ts an allusion to a first wave of Russian emigration after the october revolution in 1917. I't may be a simplified explanation but befrore the revolution people who were called gospoda were generally intelligent and well educated people. So nowdays when we are allowed to be called gospodin   it's rediculous to address with this word  a drunken worker who's interests are limited to getting some vodka more ans who is sure that Bulgaria is soviet republic.  
So if you address a person formally, you may freely use the word. if not, see the explanations of other "former comrades".


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## Setwale_Charm

I think, there is yet another aspect of the problem. The point is that certain notions of manners were being extirpated from the culture and people`s minds for along time. So today they have become strange and alien to most people. and the attempt to return to using those seems strange and out of place. It looks like "a show-off". For example, in England it was natural t hold the door for somebody, to ask the neighbour how he is doing, to address somebody Mr.. When a Russian suddenly does something of the kind, I start thinking: what is wrong with him? What does he really want? Since it is NOT natural for a Russian. And it arouses surprise or even rejection because it looks so artificial. It looks like a person has seen something in a Western film and wants to imitate it. But you can always see whether one has grown up wth it or not.


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## Etcetera

ekhlewagastiR said:


> It´s also rather rude in Russian though used by many people. At least to me it sounds very simple and rude.
> 
> Since we don´t have nothing elegant in Russian language like "madame" or "señora", I personally just try to avoid it as much as possible using just "Вы" and in the worse cases "дама" if it´s not a younger lady and "девушка" if it is. (whrn I have to say, f.ex. that..that lady was the first etc).
> 
> May be not the best way but still better than Женщина, I think


Much better, in my opinion. 
Some people prefer to say, just Простите or Извините (Sorry) to avoid such unpleasant moments. 

As for addressing teachers, I don't like using patronyms, to me they sound rather stupid. I myself prefer to be called just by my first name, Anna.


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## ballena

Etcetera said:


> Much better, in my opinion.
> Some people prefer to say, just Простите or Извините (Sorry) to avoid such unpleasant moments.
> 
> As for addressing teachers, I don't like using patronyms, to me they sound rather stupid. I myself prefer to be called just by my first name, Anna.


Простите or Извините - very good in addrssing people you don't know and it corresponds to English "Excuse me".

As for using patronyms in addressing teachers, for me it doesn't sound stupid at all. It is very Russian, very traditional and very polite form of addressing. Much less natural and absolutely impolite for me sounds addressing a teacher (or a parent of a child's friend, for example) only by the first name.


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## Etcetera

ballena said:


> As for using patronyms in addressing teachers, for me it doesn't sound stupid at all. It is very Russian, very traditional and very polite form of addressing. Much less natural and absolutely impolite for me sounds addressing a teacher (or a parent of a child's friend, for example) only by the first name.


Ah, but it also depends on the age of this particular teacher and on the school they're working for. When I wrote my post, I was keeping in mind the private language school I was beginning to work for then. There almost all the teachers are young people, and naturally they prefer to be called by their first names even by their students. 
As for teachers at secondary schools and universities, yes, the formal way of addressing is the most suitable one. But still I wish we had some more convenient form of addressing, not the "name+patronym" form!


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## Anatoli

Sorry Etcetera, I back Ballena on the Name+Patronymic form (no need to introduce new address forms at school, IMHO) but I do believe we need formal, commonly accepted forms to address people. There are no laws prescribing how to address people formally or banning how not to address, except for army/police where товарищ is still official. Is it time for a new law? Will this upset some even more?


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## ballena

To address young people it is still very acceptable and polite enough to use "молодой человек" for men and "девушка" for women. The only age limit in this case - this people should be definitely younger than the one who is addressing them.


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## Etcetera

ballena said:


> To address young people it is still very acceptable and polite enough to use "молодой человек" for men and "девушка" for women. The only age limit in this case - this people should be definitely younger than the one who is addressing them.


Why?  I always use these forms when addressing young people, no matter if they're younger or older than I myself.


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## ballena

Etcetera said:


> Why?  I always use these forms when addressing young people, no matter if they're younger or older than I myself.


Well, I ment if those people really are not so young anymore


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## tsixvi

The thing is that the communists banned those old, nice words (господин/госпожа, барин/барыня/барышня, сударь - which was used only for high nobility - сударыня etc.) - it was really not done, especially in the 1920s and 1930s, to use those kinds of "bourgeois" and worse terms 

They introduced товарищ instead. Of course nobody wants to use this now - it is too much tainted by the communist time. So it is as Anatoli said earlier: Russia today is left without proper forms of addressing people.

The use of господин was discussed below - I just wanted to add that господин is used only in combination with a name or title. So господин Путин, господин президент, but not just "господин!" for someone you would want to address in the street. So people refer to девушка/молодой человек or simply женщина/мужчина, which I agree sounds horrible. Maybe time for some creative thinking competition for new titles in Russian...?

By the way, do we have native speakers here who are actually living in Russia today? Because language keeps changing; it would be interesting to hear if there are some new developments...


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## Anatoli

I don't live in Russia but not much has changed, trust me. сударь/сударыня/барышня have not been reintroduced.


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## Etcetera

tsixvi said:


> By the way, do we have native speakers here who are actually living in Russia today? Because language keeps changing; it would be interesting to hear if there are some new developments...


You might want to read the whole discussion. We've talked about it.


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## dec-sev

Nothing has changed in this country in terms of _gospodin_. I don’t see anything horrible in addressing a young lady with девушка. Much horrible for me is to hear pani or _panove_ in Sevastopol from people who are clearly aware of the fact, that I’m not a man to be addressed in such way. But it’s behind linguistics. I’d better tell you a joke. 
-	Извините, можно я буду обращаться к Вам на "ты"?
-	Ну конечно же.
-	Слышишь, ты, козёл…


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