# 你的汉语说得很好



## L3P

Hi,guys.

The sentence 你汉语说得很好 has the structure *S*-O
P and means '*you *speak Chinese very well',
but I heard today '你*的*汉语说得很好' meaning '*your Chinese* speaks very well'.
Is that how this sentence translates literally?

Thanks.


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## brofeelgood

To be totally correct, it's 你*的*汉语说得很好, but there's no real damage (out of simplicity or maybe laziness) to omit 的, especially in spoken form.

你的女朋友很漂亮 = 你女朋友很漂亮
你的衣服好难看 = 你衣服好难看


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## fyl

I think this sentence is ambiguous. Both the two ways are possible
1. (你汉语)说得很好, where 你汉语=你的汉语
1. 你(汉语说得很好), the structure is topic-comment
你其实汉语说得很好
你因为汉语说得很好，所以可以当翻译
You see 你汉语 can be separated.


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## SuperXW

When to mean the ownership, and the whole thing is common, short and simple, 的 is often omitted.
你家=你的家
你家人=你的家人/你家的人
There are other considerations for us choosing to keep or drop 的, often related to the number of syllables. I don't think you need to memorize them. You'll get the knack when you read enough Chinese sentences.


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## L3P

Thank you all,guys.
That was helpful,but what I really meant was it`s a person who speaks a language,a language cannot speak,and in the sentence '他的汉语说得很好' it turns out that it`s not 他 who speaks, but 他的汉语 speaks instead.The equivalent in English would be 'His English speaks very well' .
Whereas in the sentence *他*说汉语说得很好  it`s 他 who speaks well.


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## Romildo

L3P said:


> it`s not 他 who speaks, but 他的汉语 speaks instead



Haha, languages never speak!
“他汉语说得很好”句型分析：
观点一：
这是一个主谓谓句型，即主谓短语充当谓语，由大主语+小主语+谓语组成。其中，小主语可以是受事，也可以是施事。
在这里，小主语“汉语”是受事。

观点二：
这是宾主前置句型，结构为主语+宾语+动词。

其实很多类似问题，语言学家的看法也是不统一的，如“他什么事情都懂”，有学者认为是主+宾+动，有些则认为是主谓谓结构；“台上坐着主席团”，学者们分析起来意见恐怕更不统一了。由此可见，想把汉语语法彻底搞清，恐怕是不可能的事情。

如果想深入了解，建议参考下面我搜索到的资料：
**********************************************************************
Li and Thompson (1976:459) distinguish four basic types of languages:
(a) Languages that are subject-prominent (Sp).
(b) Languages that are topic-prominent(Tp). Examples:Chinese
(c) Languages that are both Sp and Tp.
(d) Languages that are neither Sp nor Tp.
**********************************************************************
从主谓谓语句名首名词性成分性质的认定看话题和主语的纠葛-陈洁（2010），现代语文（语言研究版）
**********************************************************************


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## SuperXW

L3P said:


> Thank you all,guys.
> That was helpful,but what I really meant was it`s a person who speaks a language,a language cannot speak,and in the sentence '他的汉语说得很好' it turns out that it`s not 他 who speaks, but 他的汉语 speaks instead.The equivalent in English would be 'His English speaks very well' .
> Whereas in the sentence *他*说汉语说得很好  it`s 他 who speaks well.


Your question is interesting and important.
My own understanding is: 说 here is in a passive form. It actually means 被说, or "is spoken". 
I feel this is like in English, "read", "write", "say", "look", "smell", "sound" can all be passive.
"The sign reads/says: no smoking." "The flower looks/smells nice."


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## brofeelgood

I have the same understanding as SuperXW, that the sentence is in a passive structure.

他的汉语说得很好 = (lit.) "His Chinese is spoken very well", although you'll hardly hear the intended praise in this manner.


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## L3P

Thanks,SuperXW,finally.You can`t imagine how many native speakers I`ve asked about this,and the only reply was 'we just say that'. Thanks again and good luck!

Thank you all,guys!


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## Skatinginbc

"The  food tastes good" ==> I don't regard "taste" as a "passive  voice".   By the same token, 你的汉语说得很好 ==> I don't regard 说 as a  "passive voice".

你汉语说得很好  ==> Who does the action "speak"?  你!  You speak very well in Chinese. 
你钢琴弹得很好 ==> Who does the action "play"?  你!  You play very well in terms of piano. 
As  你 can be the topic of a discourse, it may be implied or mentioned only  once and stay absent for the rest of the discourse.  For example, 我真佩服你,  (你)汉语说得好, (你)钢琴也弹得棒, (我)真不知(你)是怎么练得一身才艺的_.  _Who is the agent of the action 说?  The implied topic 你.  

I normally reserve 你*的*汉语说得很好 for some sort of restrictive sense.  For example, 你(剛剛说)的(那句)汉语说得很好 "You (the implied topic from the discourse) speak very well in terms of the Chinese sentence you just said".  In other words, I feel 你汉语说得很好 is a statement about a general impression (i.e., your Chinese in general) whereas 你的汉语说得很好 comments on some specific examples or evidence (e.g., the utterance you just made) like 你的話说得很對 = 你的(那番)話说得很對

If both are used to mean the same (i.e., "You speak Chinese very well"), I think 你汉语说得很好 is more formal (or refined) than 你*的*汉语说得很好, in which "的" is rather redundant and somewhat "awkward" and "unnatural" to me.


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## L3P

Thanks a lot,Skatinginbc, that was quite in-depth, I think I got it now.


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## YangMuye

I don't think there is much difference between


> 你说得很好
> 你汉语很好
> 你的汉语很好
> 你汉语说得很好
> 你的汉语说得很好



I feel 说得 is grammatically similar to 显得, 显着, 看着, 看起来, etc., and it is functionally the same as a noun or adverb. Nouns and adverbs often share exactly the same form. How far do they differ?


> 今天很热
> 桌子上有个苹果
> 房间(里)有人
> 我有钱



It seems that I can insert adverbs like 也, 都, 就, etc. after these phases.
Are there any views which regard 得, 起来 and 着 as a post-positional like ~上, ~面, ~里, ~边, or inflected suffixes of the verb or whatsoever?
I think the verb before 得 usually generally cannot be modified by other adverbs, which makes it less functional. Why can 你汉语说得很好 not be translated as _You are good at speaking Chinese_, or more literally _Your Chinese is “speakingly” good/You, regarding Chinese and Speaking, is good_.

Although I agree with Skatinginbc on 


> 你的話说得很對 = 你的(那番)話说得很對


where I will not say 你話说得很對, but unlike him who normally 


> reserves 你的汉语说得很好 for some sort of restrictive sense


, I tend to reserve 你汉语说得很好 for the general sense. I feel sorry to hear


> I think 你汉语说得很好 is more formal (or refined) than 你的汉语说得很好, in which "的" is rather redundant and somewhat "awkward" and "unnatural" to me.


because I sometimes say 你的汉语说得很好 in an attempt to improve the rhythm. If the first word consists of two syllable, for instance, 你们, I probably will not add 的.
When I hear 你的, I just unconsciously think 的 is a topic/subject marker, although my knowledge suggests it is not.


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## Skatinginbc

YangMuye said:


> I think the verb before 得 usually generally cannot be modified by other adverbs


Generally, yes--although there are many exceptions, for instance, 已经说得很清楚了, 他们叽叽喳喳地说得正热闹...


YangMuye said:


> I tend to reserve 你汉语说得很好 for the general sense


I think we meant the same.  Anyway,   
A: 由於内部族群鬥爭, 台湾經濟原地踏步了好多年.
B: 你的话说得很對, 我完全同意. ==> I prefer 你的话 (specific example) in this case. 
Compare: 
A: 該派誰去?
B: 你话说得巧, 還是你去為妙. ==> I prefer 你话 (general impression) in this case.


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## dolmens

浏览旧帖子，发现了这么一个有趣的话题。

“你中文说的很好”，其实是“你说中文说得很好”，在类似英文“you do something well”这样的句子翻译成中文的时候都要重复一次动词并且加上“得”，但是第一个动词可以省略：
“你字写得很好” ＝＝》“你写字写得很好”
“你歌唱得很好” ＝＝》“你唱歌唱得很好”
“你饭吃得很快” ＝＝》“你吃饭吃得很快”

“你的中文说得很好”，只能解释为是被动情态了，主语变成了“你的中文”，整个句子翻译成"you speak Chinese very well", 但word by word是"your Chinese is spoken very well"

大部分情况下，人们会用第一种句式“你中文说得很好”，或者补全两个动词“你说中文说得很好”，因为将事务作为主语在有些时候行不通，比如你不可以说“你的饭吃的很快”。
“你的饭烧得很好”是可以的，但是依然没有“你饭烧得很好”那样普遍。


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