# Hindi/Urdu: take for granted



## marrish

Hi,

I'm looking forward to your valuable inputs to express this concept: to take for granted.

Many thanks,


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## Alfaaz

These are some of the ways the concept of "take for granted" could be expressed: 


حق / طے شدہ سمجھنا؛
haq / tae shudah samajhnaa 


نہ جائز فائدہ لینا/اٹھانا؛
na jaiz faida lena/uthana


کسی بات، چیز یا شخص کو معمولی / عام / غیر اہم سمجھنا؛ اور نہ قادری کرنا، شکرگزار نہ ہونا، اور غفلت برتنا / میں مبتلا ہونا یا رہنا
kisi baat, cheez ya shakhs ko ma'moli, a'am, ghair aham samajhnaa; aur na-qadri karna, shukrguzaar na hona, aur ghaflat baratna/mein mubtila hona ya rehna


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking forward to your valuable inputs to express this concept: to take for granted.
> 
> Many thanks,




I am afraid I am not sure if I will be able to meet your condition of "valuable" inputs but I shall have a go!

When one takes something or someone for granted, one tends to forget the true worth of the thing (having a job for example and not being unemployed) or the person (one's own parents who go to all kinds of lengths to meet their children's needs and demands). So, if you take something/someone for granted...

aap us kii qadr pahchaan nahiiN rahe...

In short, how about "qadr naa-shinaas honaa"?


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## Faylasoof

To take for granted = to assume = فرض کرنا _farDh karna_


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> To take for granted = to assume = فرض کرنا _farDh karna_



I don't really think that "to take for granted" = "to assume"; I agree rather with QP's examples. To take for granted is, for example, when one injures even one's little finger (pinky), one realizes the difficulties involved in the ensuing days: one had always taken the pinky for granted.
"Farz karna", as far as I know, means a simple "to assume": it could be used even in a sentence like "farz karo ki tum amrika meiN ho, aur phir ...".


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> These are some of the ways the concept of "take for granted" could be expressed:
> 
> 
> حق / طے شدہ سمجھنا؛
> haq*q* / tae shudah samajhnaa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *نا* جائز فائدہ لینا/اٹھانا؛
> na*a* ja*a'*iz fa*a'*ida(h) lena*a*/uTha*a*na*a*
> 
> 
> کسی بات، چیز یا شخص کو معمولی / عام / غیر اہم سمجھنا؛ اور   *   نہ* قادری*نا قدری* کرنا، شکرگزار نہ ہونا، اور غفلت برتنا / میں مبتلا ہونا یا رہنا
> kisii baat, ch*ii*z yaa shakhs ko ma'm*uu*lii, 3aam, *Gh*air aham samajhnaa; aur na*a*-qadri*i* karna*a*, shukrguzaar na*h* hona*a*, aur *Gh*aflat baratna*a*/m*eN* mubt*a*la*a* hona*a* ya*a* r*a*hna*a*



Hi, thanks for helping. Some of the expressions above try to convey the concept of 'taking for granted' in a descriptive manner, however not all of them fit to this concept. _naa-jaa'iz faa'idah uThaanaa_ expresses a totally different idea.
These insights are still helpful for defining the scope of meaning, which 'to take for granted' carries. Still, we are trying to find a proper term or idiom, if possible.

Moreover, I made some corrections to the spelling of Urdu text as well as the transliteration which is used by your source, one may prefer a different transliteration system but in Urdu I use there is no place for alternative spelling.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> I am afraid I am not sure if I will be able to meet your condition of "valuable" inputs but I shall have a go!
> 
> When one takes something or someone for granted, one tends to forget the true worth of the thing (having a job for example and not being unemployed) or the person (one's own parents who go to all kinds of lengths to meet their children's needs and demands). So, if you take something/someone for granted...
> 
> aap us kii qadar pahchaan nahiiN rahe...
> 
> In short, how about "qadar naa-shinaas honaa"?


I have to admit my fault of not providing any example or being more specific in the original query, though you filled this gap with an example and explanation. This is the context setting I had in mind. 

qadar naa-shanaas does express the idea here, but I'm afraid I've not come across it in Urdu.


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## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> To take for granted = to assume = فرض کرنا _farDh karna_


It's a good shot. Still, it's not the meaning which I'm looking for.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I have to admit my fault of not providing any example or being more specific in the original query, though you filled this gap with an example and explanation. This is the context setting I had in mind.
> 
> qadar naa-shanaas does express the idea here, but I'm afraid I've not come across it in Urdu.



Another thought! When we take something or someone for granted, it is not as if we don't recognise this, it is just that we  tend to forget about it temporarily until something jolts our mind. We have "iHsaan faraamosh honaa" (To forget someone's favours), how about "qadr faraamosh honaa"?


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> I don't really think that "to take for granted" = "to assume"; I agree rather with QP's examples. To take for granted is, for example, when one injures even one's little finger (pinky), one realizes the difficulties involved in the ensuing days: one had always taken the pinky for granted.
> "Farz karna", as far as I know, means a simple "to assume": it could be used even in a sentence like "farz karo ki tum amrika meiN ho, aur phir ...".


 It all depends on the context! The OP didn't provide a context so what I gave as an example above (<to assume>) is still valid  as one of the meanings!


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> I don't really think that "to take for granted" = "to assume"; I agree rather with QP's examples. To take for granted is, for example, when one injures even one's little finger (pinky), one realizes the difficulties involved in the ensuing days: one had always taken the pinky for granted.
> "Farz karna", as far as I know, means a simple "to assume": it could be used even in a sentence like "farz karo ki tum amrika meiN ho, aur phir ...".


'To take for granted' has a meaning 'to assume', too, and farz karnaa is nice for this meaning. You are right that this is not the meaning I need. When a youth enters the adulthood, for example, and starts living on his/her own, then only he realizes that he took uncountable comforts for granted, he has never pondered about them and always thought that they are just there.
Any take for Hindi, greatbear SaHib?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Another thought! When we take something or someone for granted, it is not as if we don't recognise this, it is just that we  tend to forget about it temporarily until something jolts our mind. We have "iHsaan faraamosh honaa" (To forget someone's favours), how about "qadr faraamosh honaa"?


It occured to me as well, as I'm enjoying a cup of tea. Nice coinage, too, however I'd go for qadr-shanaas because it is used in Persian. And in the example I provided in post #9, they have never ever reflected upon this matter, so there is no element of oblivion..
Another description can be: _paidaa'ishii haqq samajh baiThnaa._


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## Faylasoof

I agree that the idea of "taking for granted" can be rendered in a different way by using "_qadr_" with a negative. For example by saying _qadr nah karnaa_ :

_us ne apnii daulat / tharwat / paise kii qadr nah kii_

_He / She took his / her wealth for granted
He / She didn't value / appreciate his / her wealth_


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> I agree that the idea of "taking for granted" can be rendered in a different way by using "_qadr_" with a negative. For example by saying _qadr nah karnaa_ :
> 
> _us ne apnii daulat / tharwat / paise kii qadr nah kii_
> 
> _He / She took his / her wealth for granted
> He / She didn't value / appreciate his / her wealth_



I don't think so. "Qadr nahiN karnaa" means not valuing something, something very different from not thinking about the qadr of something, and taking for granted means the latter, not the former. Sometimes it could mean the former too, but we cannot replace a more precise idiom with such a general expression.

It is not really an easy thing to translate in Hindi or Urdu, as an equivalent idiom doesn't really exist (apart from certain proverbs like "ghar kii murgi", which only fit in certain contexts). I would simply say "Usne kabhi is baat ka khyaal hi nahiN kiyaa" for "He always took this for granted".


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## Alfaaz

Another possible expression could be: مرحمت/ بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا murhamat / bakhshish samajh baithnaa. 

Kind of as in: لگتا ہے  وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصّورکرتا ہے! 
_lagtaa hai woh to apne aap ko bakhshi hui rooh tassawur karta hai!_


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof
> 
> *I agree that the idea of "taking for granted" can be rendered in a different way by using "_qadr_" with a negative. For example by saying _qadr nah karnaa_ :
> 
> _us ne apnii daulat / tharwat / paise kii qadr nah kii_
> 
> _He / She took his / her wealth for granted
> He / She didn't value / appreciate his / her wealth_
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. "Qadr nahiN karnaa" means not valuing something, something very different from not thinking about the qadr of something, and taking for granted means the latter, not the former. Sometimes it could mean the former too, but we cannot replace a more precise idiom with such a general expression.
> 
> It is not really an easy thing to translate in Hindi or Urdu, as an equivalent idiom doesn't really exist (apart from certain proverbs like "ghar kii murgi", which only fit in certain contexts). I would simply say "Usne kabhi is baat ka khyaal hi nahiN kiyaa" for "He always took this for granted".
Click to expand...

 I agree and am well aware that many expressions can't be translated easily from one language to another! However I beg to differ from your usual"no it is not this way" opinions! Your above argument makes no sense to me! If you don't value something you do take it for granted! The rest, I’m afraid, is nothing but pedantry!


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## tonyspeed

Could we use "tucch (तुच्छ) samajhna" ?


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## Alfaaz

> Alfaaz:
> Another possible expression could be: مرحمت/ بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا murhamat / bakhshish samajh baithnaa.
> 
> Kind of as in: لگتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصّورکرتا ہے!
> _lagtaa hai woh to apne aap ko bakhshi hui rooh tassawur karta hai!_​



Does anyone have any views/opinions about whether or not these options could be used?

 نا جانے کیوں وہم ہوتا ہے کہ تم میری محبّت کو (فقط) بکشش/عطیہ سمجھتے/لیتے رہے ہو     
_na jane kyon wahm hota hai keh tum meri mahabbat ko (faqat) bakshish/a'tiyah samajhte/lete rahe ho.... 
(Don't know why, but I fear that you have been taking/thinking my love (only) for granted...)_


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> I agree and am well aware that many expressions can't be translated easily from one language to another! However I beg to differ from your usual"no it is not this way" opinions! Your above argument makes no sense to me! If you don't value something you do take it for granted! The rest, I’m afraid, is nothing but pedantry!



Rather the opposite! When you take something for granted, you don't value it. However, when you don't value something, the reason may or may not be taking something for granted.
In short, not valuing something has many reasons, only one of which is taking something for granted.


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> Rather the opposite! When you take something for granted, you don't  value it. However, when you don't value something, the reason may or may  not be taking something for granted.
> In short, not valuing something has many reasons, only one of which is taking something for granted.


 I’m sorry but this is a convoluted argument! Though I’m a great  fan of it, this is not a forum for discussing logic and linguistic  philosophy! Instead, we are discussing how we _use_ language to express an idea in common, everyday language and the use of _qadr_  (and its compounds) + negation is certainly one way we have that gives  the idea of taking things for granted! There are other way too but this  is a perfectly good way of expressing the idea of taking things for  granted:

_us ne apnii daulat kii qadr nah kii_
_us ne apnii daulat kii naaqadrii kii_
_us ne apnii daulat kii qadrdaanii nah kii_
_woh apnii daulat kaa qadrdaan nah thhaa _
_woh apnii daulat kii qadrdaan nah thhii_

Each of the above can be translated slightly diiferently to reflect the  sentence construction but the overall literal translation of these are:

_He / She didn’t appreciate the value of his / her own /wealth._

But a good, non-literal way would be:

_He / She took his / her own wealth for granted. _

Here is another way:

_us ne apnii daulat ko ne3mat nah samjhaa_

_He / She didn’t consider his / her own wealth a blessing _

i.e.

_He / She took his / her own wealth for granted_



tonyspeed said:


> Could we use "tucch (तुच्छ) samajhna" ?


 I think this might answer your above question regarding the use of "samajhna" in this context! We would and do use it as so! 

The ideas of _not considering valuable_ / _not worth taking care of or looking after_ / _not worthy of care _etc., all _give the idea_ of taking something for granted.

In our speech and formal prose, using _qadr_ (and its compounds  as above) + negation is a common way to give the idea of taking things  for granted.  This is very often the way we express it.


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadr nah kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii naaqadrii kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadrdaanii nah kii_
> _woh apnii daulat kaa qadrdaan nah thhaa _
> _woh apnii daulat kii qadrdaan nah thhii_
> 
> Each of the above can be translated slightly diiferently to reflect the  sentence construction but the overall literal translation of these are:
> 
> _He / She didn’t appreciate the value of his / her own /wealth._
> 
> But a good, non-literal way would be:
> 
> _He / She took his / her own wealth for granted. _



For me, "qadr nahiN pehchanna" is different from "qadr nahiN karnaa". I could translate "He took his wealth for granted" as "Usne apnii daulat kii qadr nahiN pehchaani" but not "Usne apnii daulat ki qadr nahiN kii."

"Tuchchh samajhna" means to consider something trivial: to take something for granted means to not even consider it, to not have it in your thoughts. To me, both are quite, quite apart.


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof*
> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadr nah kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii naaqadrii kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadrdaanii nah kii_
> _woh apnii daulat kaa qadrdaan nah thhaa _
> _woh apnii daulat kii qadrdaan nah thhii_
> 
> Each of the above can be translated slightly diiferently to reflect the   sentence construction but the overall literal translation of these are:
> 
> _He / She didn’t appreciate the value of his / her own /wealth._
> 
> But a good, non-literal way would be:
> 
> _He / She took his / her own wealth for granted. _
> 
> 
> 
> For me, "*qadr nahiN pehchanna*" is different from "*qadr nahiN karnaa*". I could translate "He took his wealth for granted" as "Usne apnii daulat kii qadr nahiN pehchaani" but not "Usne apnii daulat ki qadr nahiN kii."
> 
> "Tuchchh samajhna" means to consider something trivial: to take something for granted means to not even consider it, to not have it in your thoughts. To me, both are quite, quite apart.
Click to expand...

 *Really!* 

Firstly, *qadr nahiiN pehchanna * / *qadr  pehchanna* are hardly used, if ever! We never use it! I have a feeling it might even be wrong! While *qadr nahiiN karnaa / **qadr karnaa* are idomatic and are used daily by all and sundry. In fact, the first lot (*qadr nahiiN pehchanna * / *qadr  pehchanna*) sounds really odd to my ears!! Secondly, I feel this part of the discussion is not heading anywhere as you are now splitting hairs and trying to say the same thing as I said above but by changing  a word here and there! It seems you have agreed to use of the word _*qadr*_, at least! This is good! All you have to do is accept _*kaarnaa *_and then we are done. Of course, for the purpose of the present discussion we shall need to use _qadr with a negation_, as I've already mentioned above, to convey the meaning we wish to.

As for _*samajhnaa *_by itself first, because that is what I used in the earlier post, that too would be applicable. As for _tucch (तुच्छ) samajhna_, that is the equivalent of حقیر سمجھنا _Haqiir samajhnaa_ etc. = consider trivial, worthless. Here I would agree with you in the sense that literally it means different from taking something for granted.


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## Alfaaz

> Alfaaz:
> Another possible expression could be: مرحمت/ بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا murhamat / bakhshish samajh baithnaa.
> 
> Kind of as in: لگتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصّورکرتا ہے!
> _lagtaa hai woh to apne aap ko bakhshi hui rooh tassawur karta hai!_​
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any views/opinions about whether or not these options could be used?
> 
> نا جانے کیوں وہم ہوتا ہے کہ تم میری محبّت کو (فقط)بخشش/عطیہ سمجھتے/لیتے رہے ہو
> _na jane kyon wahm hota hai keh tum meri mahabbat ko (faqat) bakshish/a'tiyah samajhte/lete rahe ho....
> (Don't know why, but I fear that you have been taking/thinking my love (only) for granted...)_
Click to expand...


Don't mean to redundant, but any views on بخشش/عطیہ ?


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Alfaaz:
> Another possible expression could be: مرحمت/ بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا murhamat / bakhshish samajh baithnaa.
> 
> Kind of as in: لگتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصّورکرتا ہے!
> _lagtaa hai woh to apne aap ko bakhshi hui rooh tassawur karta hai!_​                            Does anyone have any views/opinions about whether or not these options could be used?
> 
> نا جانے کیوں وہم ہوتا ہے کہ تم میری محبّت کو (فقط) بکشش/عطیہ سمجھتے/لیتے رہے ہو
> _na jane kyon wahm hota hai keh tum meri mahabbat ko (faqat) bakshish/a'tiyah samajhte/lete rahe ho....
> (Don't know why, but I fear that you have been taking/thinking my love (only) for granted...)_
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mean to redundant, but any views on بکشش/عطیہ ?
Click to expand...

 Oh! Sorry, I was coming round to this one! Yes, here one can derive the meaning as having taken something for granted. As we are discussing all along, there is more than one way to express the _idea_ of taking things for granted. So here too you can say that _aside from the literal meaning_, these too can be taken to mean _in the context under consideration_ that one is taking something for granted or has assumed something. The idea of assumption is obviously implied here.


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## Alfaaz

> Oh! Sorry, I was coming round to this one! Yes, here one can derive the meaning as having taken something for granted. As we are discussing all along, there is more than one way to express the _idea_ of taking things for granted. So here too you can say that _aside from the literal meaning_, these too can be taken to mean _in the context under consideration_ that one is taking something for granted or has assumed something. The idea of assumption is obviously implied here.



Thanks for the reply! "_aside from the literal meaning_, these too can be taken to mean _in the context under consideration_" Isn't the literal meaning of بخشش/عطیہ  also kind of similar to _grant_?


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Thanks for the reply! "_aside from the literal meaning_, these too can be taken to mean _in the context under consideration_" Isn't the literal meaning of بخشش/عطیہ  also kind of similar to _grant_?


 Yes, but there is a difference in the meaning of _to grant something_ ( = to bestow / confer) and _to take something for granted _(= to assume, consider as given etc.)_. _


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## greatbear

Faylasoof said:


> *Really!*
> 
> Firstly, *qadr nahiiN pehchanna * / *qadr  pehchanna* are hardly used, if ever! We never use it! I have a feeling it might even be wrong! While *qadr nahiiN karnaa / **qadr karnaa* are idomatic and are used daily by all and sundry. In fact, the first lot (*qadr nahiiN pehchanna * / *qadr  pehchanna*) sounds really odd to my ears!! ... All you have to do is accept _*kaarnaa *_and then we are done. Of course, for the purpose of the present discussion we shall need to use _qadr with a negation_, as I've already mentioned above, to convey the meaning we wish to.



I'm surprised that you've never heard it, since it is highly idiomatic as well and "qadr nahiN pehchaannaaé is used extensively by Hindi speakers.
It was never about "qadr" and it is not splitting hairs to me; "karnaa" is very different from "pehchanna", and when both associated with "qadr", while both are idiomatic, they mean different things.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Another description can be: _paidaa'ishii haqq samajh baiThnaa._



I would go along with this. I think this conveys the concept pretty well.


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Don't mean to redundant, but any views on بخشش/عطیہ ?



Here some views and opinions about these options. But first of all, for the sake of learners’ benefit, let us correct the spelling of a couple of Urdu words as well as their transliteration.



Alfaaz said:


> Another possible expression could be:    مرحمت/ بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا  m*u*rhamat / ba*kh*shish samajh bai*t*hnaa.
> 
> Kind of as in: لگتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح* تصّور* کرتا ہے!
> _lagtaa hai woh to apne aap ko ba_*kh*_sh*i* hu*i* rooh ta_*ss*_a_*w*_ur kart_*a*_ hai!_




1) Correct: مرحمت / بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا _marHamat / baxshish samajh baiThnaa_
2) Correct: لگتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصوّر کرتا ہے! 
_    Lagtaa hai vuh to apne aap ko baxshii hu’ii ruuH tasavvur kartaa hai!_




Alfaaz said:


> Does anyone have any views/opinions about whether or not these options could be used?
> 
> *نا* جانے کیوں وہم ہوتا ہے کہ تم میری محبّت کو (فقط) *بکشش*/عطیہ سمجھتے/لیتے رہے ہو
> _na jane kyon wahm hota hai keh tum meri mahabbat ko (faqat) ba*k*shish/a*'*tiyah samajhte/lete rahe ho....
> (Don't know why, but I fear that you have been taking/thinking my love (only) for granted...)_



3) Correct: نہ جانے کیوں وہم ہوتا ہے کہ تم میری محبت کو (فقط) بخشش / عطیہ سمجھتے/ لیتے رہے ہو
_nah jaane kyoN vahm hotaa hai kih tum merii maHabbat ko (faqat) baxshish / ‘(3)tiyah ...


_Although different manners of transliteration exist, they should not be inconsequent, contradictive or misleading.


In full agreement with post #26 and upholding several other brilliant explanations of the idea laying behind the idiomatic English expression ‘to take something for granted’, my view on the applicability of your endeavours is that they are, so as to say, word-for-word translations, which, at least in this case, are not going to work. 

I find the verbal construction you have used to be on its right place (see post #12). Still, suppose the given phrase ‘to take for granted’ were not an idiomatic English expression (which mustn’t be calqued into Urdu, nor into any other language…), the first option would translate back as:

-        to misunderstand/to confuse something for clemency, mercifulness, forgiveness.

For the example 2) I don’t really know how I should relate it to the topic of this thread or to the options that you put forward. If you tell me what this example exactly was going to illustrate, I’d be glad to share my view further.


Finally, let’s have a look at the last example:
_
tum merii maHabbat ko (faqat):_
_a)-baxshish samajhte rahe ho_
_b)-3tiyah samajhte rahe ho_
_c)-baxshish lete rahe ho_
_d)-3tiyah lete rahe ho_

You’ve been /you kept on 
a) perceiving my affection (solely) as a donation/gift /grant… forgiveness
b) perceiving my affection (solely) as a donation/boon


c) and d) have faulty grammar. The are three options: 

- _maHabbat_ kaa _3tiyah lete rahe ho_
- _maHabbat 3tiyah_ jaise_ lete rahe ho_
- either _maHabbat lete rahe ho_ or _3tiyah lete rahe ho_.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> I would go along with this. I think this conveys the concept pretty well.


 I'm glad about it. I think it can be used successfully.


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## Alfaaz

> But first of all, for the sake of learners’ benefit, let us correct the spelling of a couple of Urdu words as well as their transliteration.



Sorry for the wrong spelling and transliteration! I was typing quickly and using Google which often misinterprets the English transliterations entered into it; I tried to go back and edit the posts, but that function wasn't working for some reason!



> _tasavvur_



As far as the "v" vs. "w" is concerned, (this has been discussed in other threads in the past) it is a personal preference. A lot of people see the "v" as leaning towards Hindi, while the "w" for Urdu. (Especially in the case of words borrowed from Arabic, where the "wow"/و seems to be closer to the English "w" as in what and not the "v" as in the Punjabi "vaT" or the (Indian stereotyped) pronunciation of the English word "what"!
The same goes for خ : some write it as "kh" while others like to use "x".



> For the example 2) I don’t really know how I should relate it to the topic of this thread or to the options that you put forward. If you tell me what this example exactly was going to illustrate, I’d be glad to share my view further.



I believe you are referring to this example:


> گتا ہے وہ تو اپنے آپ کو بخشی ہوئی روح تصوّر کرتا ہے!



I agree it was not the _best example _to provide!  This phrase is often used (not necessarily, depends on context) to describe a person who might not be the "most پاکیزہ / مقدس person around town" and more of a "sinner/little devil". So people say that "Seems like he considers himself to be a granted (جنّت) soul/spirit!"



> c) and d) have faulty grammar.



Sorry, again forgot to check the post in a hurry! was wanting to say: "بطور عطیہ / بخشش لیتے رہے ہو"



> In full agreement with post #26 and upholding several other brilliant explanations of the idea laying behind the idiomatic English expression ‘to take something for granted’, my view on the applicability of your endeavors is that they are, so as to say, word-for-word translations, which, at least in this case, are not going to work.



As far as the usage of the two words and directly translating from English is concerned, I thought that these expressions were regularly used in Urdu without any "English influence" (in poetry and media). I also agree with Faylasoof's post #26 that you mention, but if someone says: بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا doesn't that mean the same as "to take for granted" and not to confer/grant/bestow " بخشنا / بخس دینا/عطا کرنا "
Before anyone asks me to provide examples, I would say that my memory/قُوّتِ حافظہ ۔ یاد داشت is not as good as some of the other members (like Faylasoof and Qureshpor SaaHib), who seem to have the ability of presenting poetry or other examples right at the spot!

Lastly I'd say that everyone might understand/comprehend/look at an expression or phrase differently, whether it be in Urdu, English, or any other language. While searching for "take for granted" on Google, I saw that people tend to use it with slight differences in SE Asia, as compared to North America or North America compared to Australia...which is why in my initial post I tried to give all the different uses; Faylasoof and Greatbear also had the discussion on فرض کرنا etc.


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Sorry for the wrong spelling and transliteration! I was typing quickly and using Google which often misinterprets the English transliterations entered into it; I tried to go back and edit the posts, but that function wasn't working for some reason!
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the "v" vs. "w" is concerned, (this has been discussed in other threads in the past) it is a personal preference. A lot of people see the "v" as leaning towards Hindi, while the "w" for Urdu. (Especially in the case of words borrowed from Arabic, where the "wow"/و seems to be closer to the English "w" as in what and not the "v" as in the Punjabi "vaT" or the (Indian stereotyped) pronunciation of the English word "what"!
> 
> *Yes, indeed, I can agree to it as far as a personal preference to transliterate this sound is concerned. However, what I pointed at was not v/w but wrong word **tassawur تصّور in both scripts.
> *
> The same goes for خ : some write it as "kh" while others like to use "x".
> 
> *Yes, indeed, I tend to use ''kh'' at times, but it's inconsistent. ''kh'' is used preferably for aspirated ''k'' sound, ''کھ'' whereas ''خ'' is safely conveyed by using ''x'', to avoid confusion.*
> 
> I believe you are referring to this example:
> 
> 
> I agree it was not the _best example _to provide!  This phrase is often used (not necessarily, depends on context) to describe a person who might not be the "most پاکیزہ / مقدس person around town" and more of a "sinner/little devil". So people say that "Seems like he considers himself to be a granted (جنّت) soul/spirit!"
> *
> Glad you agree! baxshii hu'ii ruuH means a pardoned soul/spirit, it doesn't imply it be granted ''jannat''.*
> 
> Sorry, again forgot to check the post in a hurry! was wanting to say: "بطور عطیہ / بخشش لیتے رہے ہو"
> 
> *Omissions and mistakes are our everyday bread, but even after this correction, it's a literal word-for-word calque of 'to take... for...'. In Urdu other verbs can be put for 'to take something/somebody for something/somebody' but I'm pretty sure لینا lenaa doesn't belong here.*
> 
> As far as the usage of the two words and directly translating from English is concerned, I thought that these expressions were regularly used in Urdu without any "English influence" (in poetry and media). I also agree with Faylasoof's post #26 that you mention, but if someone says: بخشش سمجھ بیٹھنا doesn't that mean the same as "to take for granted" and not to confer/grant/bestow " بخشنا / بخس دینا/عطا کرنا "
> 
> *I'd rather not use it this way. Although, the verbal construction here is OK (again, see post #12), baxshish does not fit the meaning of 'to take for granted, to underestimate', in fact not only does it not mean the same, but it means something fundamentally different.*
> 
> Before anyone asks me to provide examples, I would say that my memory/قُوّتِ حافظہ ۔ یاد داشت is not as good as some of the other members (like Faylasoof and Qureshpor SaaHib), who seem to have the ability of presenting poetry or other examples right at the spot!
> 
> *Yes, both of them are unbeatable!
> *
> Lastly I'd say that everyone might understand/comprehend/look at an expression or phrase differently, whether it be in Urdu, English, or any other language. While searching for "take for granted" on Google, I saw that people tend to use it with slight differences in SE Asia, as compared to North America or North America compared to Australia...which is why in my initial post I tried to give all the different uses; Faylasoof and Greatbear also had the discussion on فرض کرنا etc.
> 
> *Correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be very surprised to note that the use of this expression might be varied geographically; this expression has simply two meanings to me: one literal - to assume, another, idiomatic -to fail to appreciate something.*


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## Alfaaz

> *Correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be very surprised to note that the use of this expression might be varied geographically; this expression has simply two meanings to me: one literal - to assume, another, idiomatic -to fail to appreciate something.*



That is what I thought too! However, it seems (don't mean to be pinpointing any group) that use of an expression or phrase might differ sometimes (from "Standard English") in places where English is not spoken as a native language. This can be observed if you visit the English forum on WR, where a lot of members ask questions and consider some things grammatically correct, which might not be so in "Standard English"! I believe this is one of the reasons why WordReferenceForums asks members to detail which "form" (Indian English, Luckhnavi Urdu, Brazilian Spanish, etc.) of a language they speak!  
That's why I said it depends (partially) on a person's environment, ماحول, etc.


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## Faylasoof

greatbear said:


> I'm surprised that you've never heard it, since it is highly idiomatic as well and "qadr nahiN pehchaannaaé is _used extensively by Hindi speakers_.


The original is _qadr shanaaxtan_ in Farsi, where _shanaaxtan_ = _pahchaannaa_. From _qadr shanaaxtan _ we get in Urdu: *qadr shanaasii*_, _*qadr shanaas honaa*_, _*qadr shanaasii karnaa* etc. So in _our_ _speech _it is *qadr shanaasii karnaa*_ / _*qadr shanaas honaa*_. _These, I feel, are the original. As for *qadr pahchaanna**,* i_t may be used by Hindi speakers, and Urdu speakers too, BTW_, _but not by us_ because _we stick to the original _(*qadr shanaasii karnaa*_ / _*qadr shanaas honaa*) and to us *qadr pahchaanna* does sounds strange. Perhaps someone thought *qadr shanaasii *sounded too foreign (!!) and decided to use* qadr pahchaanna. *If so, then no harm done. It is fine by mebut _for us it is still the former_. 


> It was never about "qadr" and it is not splitting hairs to me; "karnaa" is very different from "pehchanna", and when both associated with "qadr", while both are idiomatic, they mean different things.


 I never said it was about _qadr_ alone! I’m sorry, but this a red herring! I believe it was you who started quibbling over _qadr karnaa_ vs. _qadr pahchaannaa_, (post#21) which I found an unnecessary digression and you _are_ splitting hairs here:


greatbear said:


> For me, "qadr nahiN pehchanna" is different from "qadr nahiN karnaa". I could translate "He took his wealth for granted" as *"Usne apnii daulat kii qadr nahiN pehchaani" but not "Usne apnii daulat ki qadr nahiN kii*."
> .....


 For us, and I say this at the risk of repetition, _qadr pahchaannaa_ is _qadr shanaas honaa_, the latter being highly idiomatic for us_. _ We don’t use the former. Besides this, we also use _qadr karnaa_, _qadr shanaasii karnaa, qadr daanii karnnaa_ etc. depending, and for you to say the above, that, I feel is simply wrong!  For the purpose of this discussion (i.e. the English expression _taking for granted_), and as I have already said above, one can use a number of expressions, including those employing the verb *samajhnaa*, but in our idiomatic speech _qadr karnaa_ / _qadr shanaasii karnaa_ / etc. and their negations are certainly commonly used depending what one is trying to say, as is _naaqadrii karnaa_. So for you to suggest that this “_Usne apnii daulat kii qadr nahiN pehchaani" _is OK but not_ "Usne apnii daulat ki qadr nahiN kii”_, this too is just wrong! _We are not discussing the literal meanings of these sentences but how compounds of qadr + negation are used to give he idea of what we are trying to convey_:


Faylasoof said:


> ….
> …….. we are discussing how we _use_ language to express an idea in common, everyday language and the use of _qadr_ (and its compounds) + negation is certainly one way we have that gives the idea of taking things for granted! There are other way too but this is a perfectly good way of expressing the idea of taking things for granted:
> 
> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadr nah kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii naaqadrii kii_
> _us ne apnii daulat kii qadrdaanii nah kii_
> _*…..*_
> _*…..*_
> Each of the above can be translated slightly differently to reflect the sentence construction but the overall literal translation of these are:
> 
> _He / She didn’t appreciate the value of his / her own /wealth._
> 
> _But a good, non-literal way would be_:
> 
> _He / She took his / her own wealth for granted. _
> 
> Here is another way:
> 
> _us ne apnii daulat ko ne3mat nah samjhaa_
> 
> _He / She didn’t consider his / her own wealth a blessing _
> 
> i.e.
> 
> _He / She took his / her own wealth for granted_
> 
> I think this might answer your above question regarding the use of "samajhna" in this context! We would and do use it as so!
> 
> The ideas of _not considering valuable_ / _not worth taking care of or looking after_ / _not worthy of care _etc., all _give the idea_ of taking something for granted.
> 
> In our speech and formal prose, using _qadr_ (and its compounds as above) + negation is a common way to give the idea of taking things for granted. This is very often the way we express it.


 So one can use a number of expressions including those with _qadr _(_and its compounds_) + _negation_, or those with _samajhnaa + /- negation_ etc. _to convey the idea_ _the idea of ‘to take for granted’_.

Here is another example to consider. For this sentence:

_He had taken it for granted that I shall be going with him_

_Now here obviously the use of either qadr __(and its compounds) + negation__ or certain constructions with samajhnaa__, like__ paidaa'ishii haqq samajh baiThnaa_, would be wrong. But one can of course use _samajh baiThnaa_ and other verbs and expressions ways to convey what we wish to:

_He had taken it for granted that I shall be going with him_

_us ne (yeh) farDh kar liyaa thaa keh maiN us ke saath jaa’oN gaa_
_woh yeh  __samajh baiThaa thaa keh maiN us ke saath jaa’oN gaa_
_us ne (yeh) maan liyaa thaa keh maiN us ke saath jaa’oN gaa_
_us ne (yeh) maanaa thaa keh maiN us ke saath jaa’oN gaa_
_us ne (yeh) tahayyah kar liyaa* thaa keh maiN us ke saath jaa’oN gaa_

Literal meaning of f_ardh karnaa _= _to assume_ and of _tahayyah karnaa / kar lenaa__ = to resolve, make preparations__. But as meaning and usage are context dependent, here both would give the idea of assumption / taking for granted__ if uttered within a certain context, with farDh karnaa / kar lenaa being more usual than tahayyah karnaa / kar lenaa, here. _

As we all agree, there are many ways to convey the idea of ‘to take for granted’. … and we are still counting!


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