# country, city - gender



## Anatoli

Hello. Are there any more Arab countries and cities, which have an unexpected gender, I mean not based on the ending? I know مصر (Egypt - miSr) is feminine, what about عمان (Oman - 3umaan)?


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## WadiH

Most countries and cities are treated as feminine (in fact, in my own dialect, ALL of them are basically treated as feminine), regardless of the ending of the name.  E.g., السويد, النرويج, البرازيل, المكسيك etc. all lack feminine markers but are treated as feminine nonetheless.

However, there are two notable exceptions: Iraq and Lebanon.  These two are treated as masculine locally, and are usually treated as masculine in MSA as well (though I personally treat them as feminine, and I don't think it is necessarily erroneous to do so).


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## Outlandish

Also al-Sham and al-Sudan, el-Yaman are sometimes treated interchangeably feminine and masculine.


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## WadiH

I don't know about Al-Sham, but you're right about Yemen and Sudan.  I forgot about those two.


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## Mahaodeh

Al-Urdun is also masculine, but I never thought of Al-Sham being masculine, I alsways treat it as feminine.


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## Outlandish

As for Oman, it took me sometime to have an opinion about it. I guess it's mostly masculine.


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## WadiH

Outlandish said:


> As for Oman, it took me sometime to have an opinion about it. I guess it's mostly masculine.



How do you figure?  I always hear it treated as feminine.



Mahaodeh said:


> Al-Urdun is also masculine



I suppose that makes sense if you consider that it is originally the name of a river, and rivers and wadis are always masculine in Arabic.

However, I definitely still hear al-Urdun as a country referred to in the feminine.  As I said before, everyone in my environment refers to all countries, cities, and regions in the feminine.  Maybe it's because in the back of our minds we think of them as دولة الأردن, or بلد السودان, and مدينة بيروت, etc., just as we think of a river as نهر العاصي or نهر دجلة.  Speaking of دجلة, if I remember correctly, in the classical books دجلة was treated as masculine even when نهر was omitted, which would lend support to this theory.  Perhaps لبنان is referred to as masculine because it is originally the name of a mountain?


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## Outlandish

Do you usually say:
عمان بلد جميل
Or: 
عمان بلد جميلة

Whatever, I guess both are right and each person has hi own way in this regard.


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## WadiH

In MSA, بلد is masculine, so بلد جميل, but it is feminine in my native dialect, so we would say عمان بلد جميلة.

But then it could also be rendered عمان بلاد جميلة in MSA.

I'll check the names of some of these countries in معجم البلدان and other classical reference book and see what I find.


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## Mahaodeh

Wadi Hanifa said:


> How do you figure? I always hear it treated as feminine.


Me too.

Anyway, checking using كذا بلد جميل أو جميلة is not a good test becasue it's all supposed to be masculine since it refers to بلد not the country name; I would rather test it by saying:
هذه عُمان أم هذا عُمان ; it seems feminine to me.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> However, I definitely still hear al-Urdun as a country referred to in the feminine.


 
Really?! I never heard it referred to as feminine; always masculine.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> As I said before, everyone in my environment refers to all countries, cities, and regions in the feminine. Maybe it's because in the back of our minds we think of them as دولة الأردن, or بلد السودان, and مدينة بيروت, etc.,


 
I think that is why the vast majority is feminine; with very few exceptions.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> Speaking of دجلة, if I remember correctly, in the classical books دجلة was treated as masculine even when نهر was omitted, which would lend support to this theory.


 
I don't recall reading anything classic about Dijla, but in collequal (at least in Iraq) it's referred to as masculine, in MSA (or NSA, if you will ) I've seen it referred to as both, probably because the writers get confused.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> Perhaps لبنان is referred to as masculine because it is originally the name of a mountain?


 
I thought that to myself too (about this and Al Urdun), but why would العراق be masculine? Any ideas?


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## Anatoli

Thank you all, I think I should post the list, so you can say, which ones are feminine, although have the masculine ending:

الجزائر
البحرين
العراق
الأردن
الكويت
المغرب
عمان
قطر
السودان
تونس
اليمن

I wonder, could there be some easy tricks to find out how they are used on the web? A most common adjective, perhaps?


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## المعتصم

you are welcome
I added some things to the names so you can understand why it is masc or feminine
where the countries with بلاد، الأرض، الصخر، نهر، أرض، جبل are masculine and others are feminine.
Edit: the words with red colour are understood in mind when saying the black word only. 



Anatoli said:


> Thank you all, I think I should post the list, so you can say, which ones are feminine, although have the masculine ending:
> 
> دولة الجزائر
> مملكة البحرين
> دولة أرض الصخر العراق
> مملكة شرق نهر الأردن
> دولة الكويت
> مملكة المغرب
> سلطنة عمان
> دولة/امارة قطر
> دولة البلاد السودان
> دولة تونس
> دولة اليمن
> دولة جبل لبنان
> جمهورية سوريا


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## WadiH

Maha,
Regarding العراق, bear in mind that many people -- including myself -- treat it as feminine, so the بلاد or دولة rationale still holds.  However, I think in Classical Arabic, the names of countries and regions were treated just like other words, particularly if the words themselves were Arabic in origin, e.g. العراق and الحجاز are both on the pattern of فعال, which is masculine.  المغرب is on the pattern of مفعل, which is also masculine.  نجد was mostly treated as masculine, but you can still find references to it in the feminine, so perhaps this pattern (فعل) may have been treated differently in different dialects (nowadays, in Arabia, you are most likely to hear both نجد and الحجاز treated as feminine).



Anatoli said:


> Thank you all, I think I should post the list, so you can say, which ones are feminine, although have the masculine ending:
> 
> الجزائر
> البحرين
> العراق
> الأردن
> الكويت
> المغرب
> عمان
> قطر
> السودان
> تونس
> اليمن
> 
> I wonder, could there be some easy tricks to find out how they are used on the web? A most common adjective, perhaps?



I think that if you stick with the feminine for all of these, it will not be considered erroneous.  However, if you really want to remember the exceptional masculine cases, then I would suggest memorizing them as follows:

العراق
لبنان
اليمن
المغرب

Perhaps you can use a mnemonic device such as عليم.

I don't agree that السودان should be masculine, but it often is rendered that way in news broadcasts and the like, so you can add that to the list if you like.  I also think الأردن is just as likely to appear in feminine as in masculine, so you could add it also, but I would just memorize the four I mentioned above.

Regarding Google searches, perhaps you can use the verb يقع and تقع, or the verbs يحدها or يحده (meaning "bordered by").  You can also use adjectives like جميلة.


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## Mahaodeh

المعتصم said:


> I added some things to the names so you can understand why it is masc or feminine
> where بلاد، الأرض، الصخر، نهر، أرض، جبل are masculine and others are feminine.


 
I have to disagree totally with your suggestion. Adding something to it may actually change the gender because of this إضافة.

Example: لبنان is masculine without a doubt; but دولة لبنان is feminine simply because you added دولة. If you do that, every single one becomes feminine.


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## المعتصم

I'm sorry because you misunderstood me:
I didn't mean that these things should be added,
I meant that these things are omitted when you speak
like when you say لبنان and you mean the government, you say it as feminine, but when  you mean the country you mean دولة جبل لبنان just by saying لبنان. that's why it is masculine.
this is applied to all countries


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## Naqeyy

According to Al-Kitaab Part One Second Edition, Unit 1, the following countries are considered masculine: 

Iraq
Jordan
Lebanon
Morocco
Sudan
Yemen
The book is suppose to be teaching MSA so it may be different that what others use in their local dialects.


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## Abu Rashid

> I thought that to myself too (about this and Al Urdun), but why would العراق be masculine? Any ideas?



Doesn't العراق refer to a geographical feature also?


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## Naqeyy

I am sorry, I am not sure why.  I will be meeting with an Arabic instructor tomorrow (possibly 2 instructors).  I will see if they can help enlighten me and I will pass on any information they may have.


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## WadiH

Abu Rashid said:


> Doesn't العراق refer to a geographical feature also?



The problem is, nobody knows what exactly that feature is.  Is it singular on the pattern فِعال (like حجاب), in which case it would be masculine?  Or is it the plural of عرق, in which case it would be feminine?

I looked up العراق in the 13th century _Mu'jam Al-Buldan_ and the author referred to it in both masculine and feminine, sometimes within the same sentence.  I noticed the same thing when I looked up الأردن.  He refers to لبنان on the other hand entirely in the masculine, but that is because he explicitly speaks of it as merely a mountain, the conception of Lebanon as a country separate from the mountain not having been developed at the time.

So, I still believe that the masculine and feminine forms are both correct for all of these countries, and the choice is mostly a matter of personal preference, though the journalistic tendency is to treat these 5 or 6 countries as masculine.


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## Xence

Naqeyy said:


> According to Al-Kitaab Part One Second Edition, Unit 1, the following countries are considered masculine:
> 
> Iraq
> Jordan
> Lebanon
> Morocco
> Sudan
> Yemen
> The book is suppose to be teaching MSA so it may be different that what others use in their local dialects.


 
I personally agree with these suggestions. In order to see if a country name is intrinsically masculine or feminine, all we have to do is to put an adjective after it.
Thus, I always say تونس الشقيقة and never تونس الشقيق , also المغرب الشقيق and never المغرب الشقيقة !

I am thinking of phrases such as العراق الأشم - الأردن العربي - لبنان الشامخ - المغرب الأقصى - السودان الشاسع - اليمن السعيد and I just can't imagine turning them to the feminine.


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## Tulip87

Are all names of countries/cities feminine?


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## Masjeen

All words that end with هـ are feminine in arabic
but because the "dowla =دولة" (state) "jomhuriaya= جمهورية" (Republic) "mamlaka= مملكة" (kingdom) "emmara=إمارة  (Duchy)" etc.. are ends with هـ therefore Arabs Considering  all names of countries are feminine names.

The same applies to the cities, For example Los Angeles is "madina= مدينة" (city) so the name will be feminine because  madina in arabic ends with هـ.

so yes all  names of countries/cities are feminine?


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## lukebeadgcf

As you can see from the thread psxws provided, there is much variation and disagreement on this issue. Even in the dictionary, most of the geographical names in question are described as dual-gender.

But to be simple about it, all geographic names are feminine except:

Sudan
Lebanon
Iraq
Morocco
Yemen
Jordon 

These can be memorized using the mnemonic SLIMY J.

This is how I remember it, but keep in mind that the real practical gender of the above "exceptions" varies according to region and person.


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## Tulip87

Thanks

So what region/s is 'SLIMY J' accepted/used in?


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## HotIcyDonut

Somalia is also masculine, it seems


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