# нравится / нравиться ( pronounciation)



## Star of David

Is there any difference in pronunciation between "нравится" (as in вам нравится "You like") and нравиться (the infinitive of the verb)? If there is, I sure can't hear it!


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## Drink

No, there isn't.


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## rusita preciosa

Just wanted at add: because there is no difference in pronounciation, the spelling mistake *-тся vs. -ться* is one of the most common for native speakers ( compare with the English  *you're / your)*


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## Sobakus

The combination of т(ь) and the reflexive particle have long been treated as a single sound Ц (soft back then), and when all Ц became hard, both тся and ться were affected.


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## Rosett

This may be regionally dependent, but the difference is that, while -ться may be heard as -тся, -тся itself is heard as -тса.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> This may regionally dependent, but the difference is that, while -ться may be heard as -тся, -тся itself is heard as -тса.


Would you happen to have some sound samples to back that up?

I'm fairly certain this is impossible in principle: in Russian assimilation by voicing/softness works from right to left, never from left to right, so the last element in a cluster never changes. As such, the cluster of either soft or hard Т with the soft СЬ will always result in a soft [tsʲ] (but that's absent from standard Russian), and a cluster with the hard С will always result in a hard [ts]. Thus, I can't see a distinction between the two being possible in one regiolect.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Would you happen to have some sound samples to back that up?


Youtube is not allowed here, but you may want to explore some other proof:

Поэторий - стихи: пирожки, порошки, экспромты | Пирожок «лев радуется и смеетса»
лев радуется и смеётса*
не зная что он обречон*
что на него рамон меркадер
смертельный точит ледоруб

Ноябрь старые сказания-приметы
Ноябрь капризен: то плачет, то смеётса*


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## Awwal12

Sobakus said:


> in Russian assimilation by voicing/softness works from right to left


In the standard Russian. In dialects it happens/happened vice versa as well, although to a lesser degree. I doubt it's relevant here, though.


Rosett said:


> Поэторий - стихи: пирожки, порошки, экспромты | Пирожок «лев радуется и смеетса»
> лев радуется и смеетса*
> не зная что он обречон*
> что на него рамон меркадер
> смертельный точит ледоруб
> 
> Ноябрь старые сказания-приметы
> Ноябрь капризен: то плачет, то смеетса*


Sorry but I don't see here any examples supporting the opposition between /тc'а/ and /тса/ in one dialect. And it's what you apparently stated above.


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## Rosett

Awwal12 said:


> In the standard Russian. In dialects it happens/happened vice versa as well, although to a lesser degree. I doubt it's relevant here, though.
> Sorry but I don't see here any examples supporting the opposition between /тc'а/ and /тса/ in one dialect. And it's what you apparently stated above.


This is not about dialect. People tend to write the way they speak.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> Youtube is not allowed here, but you may want to explore some other proof


Смеётса is the way 99.9% natives would pronounce смеётся, it's no revelation. Substantiating your statement requires /смеётса/ and /смеяться/ pronounced by the same speaker. By the way, posting Youtube links is allowed after moderator's approval, in the meanwhile you can give the names of those videos.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Смеётса is the way 99.9% natives would pronounce смеётся, it's no revelation. Substantiating your statement requires /смеётса/ and /смеяться/ pronounced by the same speaker. By the way, posting Youtube links is allowed after moderator's approval, in the meanwhile you can give the names of those videos.


Please check this out.
Леонид Утёсов и др. Марш весёлых ребят. 3:17-3:18
Леонид Утёсов: "У самовара я и моя Маша" 2:01-2:02


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## Drink

Rosett said:


> Please check this one out.
> Леонид Утёсов и др. Марш весёлых ребят. 3:17-3:18



That only shows that смеётся is pronounced -тса, which everyone here already agrees with. What you haven't shown is -ться being pronounced as something other than -тса.


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## Rosett

Drink said:


> That only shows that смеётся is pronounced -тса, which everyone here already agrees with. What you haven't shown is -ться being pronounced as something other than -тса.


Actually, this one features "смеяться": "Мы будем петь и смеяться как дети".
You were too fast jumping to the conclusion.


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## Drink

Rosett said:


> Actually, this one features "смеяться": "Мы будем петь и смеяться как дети".
> You were too fast jumping to the conclusion.



Yes sorry, it's not a very clear recording and I misheard the я as ё. But in that case, this recording clearly contradicts your point by showing that смеяться is pronounced -тса.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> Please check this out.
> Леонид Утёсов и др. Марш весёлых ребят. 3:17-3:18
> Леонид Утёсов: "У самовара я и моя Маша" 2:01-2:02


Both are pronounced with the hard Ц: [smʲɪjat͜sa], [smʲɪjot͜sa]


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## Cheburator

I can think of only one region where they might pronounce "тся" and "ться" differently: Moldavia. That's becauese their language does have both the hard "ц" and the soft "ць". But, actually, I've never heard them do that, and I had to communicate with people from that country for quite a long time .


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## Drink

Cheburator said:


> I can think of only one region where they might pronounce "тся" and "ться" differently: Moldavia. That's becauese their language does have both the hard "ц" and the soft "ць". But, actually, I've never heard them do that, and I had to communicate with people from that country for quite a long time .



It's not that Russians don't have this sound. Most Russians pronounce the word отсюда with a soft ць. Also in rare cases, reflexive imperatives can have soft ць, like встреться (imperative of встретиться).

In other words, it's not that we _can't_ pronounce смеяться with ць, it's that we _don't_.


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## Reitschuster

Being originally from Kazakhstan, where only the standard variety of Russian is being spoken, I'd say there's no difference. Can't say I heard any different pronunciation from the Russians living in Russia, either.


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## Sobakus

Drink said:


> It's not that Russians don't have this sound. Most Russians pronounce the word отсюда with a soft ць. Also in rare cases, reflexive imperatives can have soft ць, like встреться (imperative of встретиться).
> 
> In other words, it's not that we _can't_ pronounce смеяться with ць, it's that we _don't_.


Those combinations aren't really perceived as one phoneme, however (unlike the discussed two), so I wouldn't call them a soft Ц. Similarly, the тш in отшутиться isn't perceived as a hard Ч.


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## Drink

Sobakus said:


> Those combinations aren't really perceived as one phoneme, however (unlike the discussed two), so I wouldn't call them a soft Ц. Similarly, the тш in отшутиться isn't perceived as a hard Ч.



But presumably -т-ся and -ть-ся could also have been kept separate. But the point is that they haven't.


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## Awwal12

Drink said:


> It's not that Russians don't have this sound. Most Russians pronounce the word отсюда with a soft ць. Also in rare cases, reflexive imperatives can have soft ць, like встреться (imperative of встретиться).
> 
> In other words, it's not that we _can't_ pronounce смеяться with ць, it's that we _don't_.


In standard Russian varieties, soft [ц'] can only be a variant of soft /т'/ phoneme (most Russians probably won't even notice the difference). Russian [т'], being a dental sound, predictably has a sibilant release, so it all is just about lengths and intensities. As a separate phoneme /ц'/ exists in some rural dialects only, either as one of the two affricates (the second one can be /ч/, /ч'/ or, seldom, /ц/), or as the only affricate (quite frequently).


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