# Hindi/Urdu: desi



## lcfatima

I know the dictionary definition of *desi *and *des*, but I am wondering when it came to be used to designate "South Asian." I suspect that it wasn't used this way in South Asia, but somehow developed that meaning in the diaspora and came back to Hindi/Urdu from the overseas people in the past few years. Now, people in India and Pakistan are familiar with the term desi to mean South Asian. Which nations are desi? Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, but what about Nepal, Bhutan or Afghanistan?


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## BP.

Every people are _desii _in their _des_. Or _watanii _in their _watan_.

This distorted use of the word by the British (and subcontinental people living in the UK) probably comes from the lingering concept of 'the colonials' and 'the indigeous people'.


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## bakshink

Yes BP is right. Desi or Deshii from desh- which means nation- bhaarat meraa desh hai- India is my country. 
And one who is a foreigner or alien is pardesii- par means 'other' So pardesi is one who is from the other land.
aaja re pardesii mai.n to kab se kha.Dii is paar- Wasn't really sung for someone living abroad but it means someone who is from outside your "des".


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## panjabigator

I don't think the last three figure into the term Desi all to often - for me, Desi is India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Kind of limited, I know.

The term Desi is a very unifying term where I live and is actively espoused by people who wish to declare their origins (Indian heritage) but not necessarily throw support to the nation state, which is something very diasporic.  I've never had this conversation with people who live in the subcontinent, but my guess is that they would not typically use this word to generalize about S.A. culture like the diaspora does.


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## lcfatima

Ah, so the British people invented the usage (as I said, I am aware of the traditional meanings of domestic, land, native to one's region/village, and even the meaning approaching home-made/domestic organic purity like desi ghee, desi anDa, desi murghi, etc.) I had assumed it was actually diasporic communities who started using it. South Asians do use it in Dubai. I would agree that within the subcontinent this word is not used but I think the concept has become popularized somehow. There was that song Desi Girl in Dostana, for example.


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## tamah

Desi, Paki etc are all British invented words.


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## lcfatima

I don't think most average contemporary non-desi British people know what "desi" means, though, unless they have some desi connection.

Also, I wouldn't put "Paki" and desi in the same category.

Is there any colonial literature or something that points to this usage of desi being coined by the colonial British and not the diasporic Indo-Pak community within Britain?


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## Faylasoof

As far as I knowthe word _desi_ itself is from Sanskrit, which makes it an ancient or, at the very least, a very old word of _desi _origin! When it came to used to mean people of South Asia will need looking into. I wouldn't be surprised if this usage too is of _desi _origin.

In the UK, _Paki _is a derogatory term which many of my firends in the US are still unaware of. They tend to use it freely but in the UK it carries the same offence as the word _nigger _everywhere in the English speaking world.


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## tamah

Yeah the word 'Paki' is absolute disaster if spoken to the targetted person with a purpose . Desi is said in generally about a person belonging to sub continent. I guess only British knows abt these words as my american and hispanic friends are unaware of those words.
Faylasoof can you provide me with some insights about desi words' sanskrit origin? Because as far as my sanskrit knowledge goes we have words like 'देशिक' , 'देशीय', 'देशित' and all these words means 'of certain country' but I have never seen word 'desi' in sanskrit. So if you have something with regards to desi as a sanskrit word then please share it , I would love to know.


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## Cilquiestsuens

In normal Urdu speech the word *desi* used the way you mention (= South Asian) has generally for antonym the word *wilaayati*... (= foreign, especially Western).


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## Faylasoof

What I meant was its origins, not the word in its entirety. 

“Our” _desii_ is in two parts: 
ديس  देस _des_ + _ii _– the <_ii>_ bit is actually the way Arabic-Persian-Urdu form country / region specific associations. 

In Urdu, for example, we use: يونان_  yoonaan_ (Greece) -> يونانى_  yoonaanii_ (Greek), افریقہ_  afriiqah_ (Africa) -> افریقى_  afriiqii_  (African) etc.

Hence ديس_ des_ ->  دیسی _desii_ – pertaining to one’s own land / country = native of a country = اہل وطن_ ahl-e-waTan_ = مقامی_ maqaamii_ (local, in terms of a region or country) [It can also mean دیہاتی_ dehaatii_ (from the countryside, rustic).]


The first part, देस _des_ is from the Prakrit देसो; originally from the Sanskrit देश. 
So, in fact we use a hybrid word when we say _desii_ (_desi _).

…. and Cilqui you are right when you say the antonym for us of _desii_ is ولايتى_  wilaayatii_.


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## teaboy

Don't forget the sense of _from the country_ as in _from the farm or village_ -- such as desi ghee, desi murghi, etc.


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## tamah

WOW sanskrit rocks even today, just remove sanskrit base from so many words and they will mean nothing.  
I asked my sanskrit teacher and he said that 'desi' is altered version of the sanskrit word 'देश' which is used in modern hindi and urdu.


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## Faylasoof

teaboy said:


> Don't forget the sense of _from the country_ as in _from the farm or village_ -- such as desi ghee, desi murghi, etc.


 Yes! Who can forget _aSlii, desii ghee_? 


tamah said:


> WOW sanskrit rocks even today, just remove sanskrit base from so many words and they will mean nothing.


 Is this any surprise? Sanskrit is there though our language is obviously closer to Prakrit and it has words from Braj, not to mention the overabundance of Persian and Arabic words (and some from Turkish too) that are used by us all the time.


			
				tamah said:
			
		

> I asked my sanskrit teacher and he said that 'desi' is altered version of the sanskrit word 'देश' which is used in modern hindi and urdu.


  Exactly so! That is what said earlier:


Faylasoof said:


> “Our” _desii_ is in two parts:
> ديس देस _des_ + _ii _– the <_ii>_ bit is actually the way Arabic-Persian-Urdu form country / region specific associations....
> 
> ...The first part, देस _des_ is from the Prakrit देसो; originally from the Sanskrit देश.
> So, in fact we use a hybrid word when we say _desii_ (_desi _).


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## tamah

Faylasoof said:


> Yes! Who can forget _aSlii, desii ghee_?
> Is this any surprise? Sanskrit is there though our language is obviously closer to Prakrit and it has words from Braj, not to mention the overabundance of Persian and Arabic words (and some from Turkish too) that are used by us all the time.


Yes I agree, many people shout that sanskrit is vanishing etc. but they might be using some words which belong to sanskrit  and speaking about persian, arabic and turkish words ; they were brought by Mughal rulers I think. Isnt it true that these languages don't belong to India?. Sanskrit has its origin in India. Correct me if I am wrong  Asking just out of curiosity.


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## Faylasoof

tamah said:


> Yes I agree, many people shout that sanskrit is vanishing etc. but they might be using some words which belong to sanskrit  .....


 I think what some people mean by ""vanishing" is that it isn't used commonly in our daily life. Like Latin, it is a scholarly language and restricted to scholars who do use it mostly for work. But just like Latin word derivatives, Sanskrit word derivatives – _*e.g. desii*_ and many others - are used by us. They have come via Prakrit and Braj though. I have no issue with this when I speak / read / write Urdu.



> ...and speaking about persian, arabic and turkish words ; they were brought by Mughal rulers I think. Isnt it true that these languages don't belong to India?. Sanskrit has its origin in India. Correct me if I am wrong  Asking just out of curiosity.


 Firstly, the presence of all three (Arabic, Persian and Turkish) in India predates the Mughals. Secondly, why should that be an issue given that we use words from these languages all the time. They are are an integral part of the everday Hindi-Urdu lexicon. As I said, the word *desii* it self has been influenced and changed as a result. Finally, and rather i_nterestingly, Sanskrit too has its origin outside India! It is from the Indo-Iranian ancestral branch of the Indo-European family that initially developed abroad!_

_If we are to continue with this discussion, then I suggest it'll be best to open a new thread in the forum entitled: Etymology and History of Languages._


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## tamah

Faylasoof said:


> Finally, and rather i_nterestingly, Sanskrit too has its origin outside India! It is from the Indo-Iranian ancestral branch of the Indo-European family that initially developed abroad!_


Kindly check the link... 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_Sanskrit
The term 'Indo-European' was coined by certain European scholars who found great similarities among hundreds of languages and dialects spread over Europe, and Asia – mainly Indian and European languages. 
Its a classification not origin I believe. 



Faylasoof said:


> _If we are to continue with this discussion, then I suggest it'll be best to open a new thread in the forum entitled: Etymology and History of Languages._


Yes I know it got off-topic. I just asked a question out of curiosity. I see no need to open it as a new topic. This thread wont go off-topic now. Thanks


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## Faylasoof

tamah said:


> ...Yes I know it got off-topic. I just asked a question out of curiosity. I see no need to open it as a new topic. This thread wont go off-topic now. Thanks



   Tamah,

  I hope you didn’t misunderstand me! I made the suggestion of opening that thread (or perhaps you can search if one is available anyway) both to keep this thread’s integrity but also because the topic is very interesting. Curiosity is good!


  BTW, my own opinion is not based on any Eurocentric views on language family classification (thanks for the Wiki link, I’ve seen it before), but on my reading of ancient history, archaeology, linguistics and internal evidence from Vedic literature pointing to a *non-desii* origin of the language. We can also discuss by PM, if you wish. 

  Best wishes.


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## mugibil

These are not "eurocentric views on language family classification". No linguist, European or Indian, denies that Sanskrit is Indo-European; and no academic linguist, European or Indian, denies that the Proto-Indo-European language(s) originated outside of India, though a few modern cranks [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_India_theory#1999_.22revival.22]] do.


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