# We've done this material already



## yuechu

大家好！

I teach English on the internet on a website where the students choose the material for each lesson. What can I say (in Chinese) if a student accidentally chooses material we've already done?
For example: "We've done this material already." 我们已经做过这个材料？

Thanks!


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## SuperXW

If the material requires "doing"做 some tasks, you can say 我们已经做过这个材料. Otherwise, you'd better say 我们已经学过这份材料了, or simply 这份学过了.
Note that 这份材料 is better than 这个材料.


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## Skatinginbc

這教材我們已經用過了


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## SuperXW

^用过了 is a good fit-to-all choice.
Just for the word 教材, it means "textbook" exactly in Mainland China. "Material" are called 材料.
For example, video and audio learning materials are 材料, not 教材.


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## Skatinginbc

Interesting!  Thanks for pointing that out.  In Taiwan, 教材 means "instructional material", which includes any video material, audio material, textbook, and so forth.


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## yuechu

SuperXW said:


> Note that 这份材料 is better than 这个材料.



Thanks, SuperXW and Skatinginbc, for your correction and suggestions! 
Does the 了 at the end of the sentence change the meaning? (Is it ok with or without it?)


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## SuperXW

yuechu said:


> Does the 了 at the end of the sentence change the meaning? (Is it ok with or without it?)


已经……了 makes the message complete. Without 了, it feels that you have some additional words to say, such as 我们已经做过这份材料，但是还没做过那份。


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## NewAmerica

“该内容已教过”即可。



SuperXW said:


> 我们已经学过这份材料了



搞得象党校学习似的，要么是上工商行政管理课？



Skatinginbc said:


> 這教材我們已經用過了



句子不错，就是“教材”两字用得过于宽泛。


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## yuechu

SuperXW said:


> 已经……了 makes the message complete. Without 了, it feels that you have some additional words to say, such as 我们已经做过这份材料，但是还没做过那份。


I'll have to remember this. Thanks for this very important information, SuperXW!



NewAmerica said:


> “该内容已教过”即可。


Thanks for your suggestion as well, NewAmerica! Does this sentence sound more like written Chinese (or more formal) than the other translations?


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## NewAmerica

It is both colloquial and decent/formal.


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> 句子不错，就是“教材”两字用得过于宽泛。


我瀏覽了好些字典和網站給「教材」的定義及例句，感覺不是我們的用法過於寬泛，而是你們的用法像大腦血管堵塞似地越變越窄.


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> 我瀏覽了好些字典和網站給「教材」的定義及例句，感覺不是*我們*的用法過於寬泛，而是你們的用法像大腦血管堵塞似地越變越窄.



          精确、自然、随意是发展趋势。

      哪来的“我们”？是不是你要把自己的毛细血管吹胀当大血管来用？


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> 哪来的“我们”？是不是你要把自己的毛细血管吹胀当大血管来用？


我說的「我們」指台灣人，「你們」指大陸人.  我相信SuperXW 和你說的，你們 (大陸的一般民眾) 的「教材」指教課書.  我們台灣的「教材」則是指「教學材料」，也就是教課書、講義、錄音帶、錄影帶等等用來提供教學內容的材料.  這原本只是地方差異罷了，沒什麼誰對誰錯，誰好誰壞的爭議必要.  可是你偏要說我「用得過於寬泛」，言下之意，就有好壞之分 (cf. 太「過」分了！)，以及正統變種的影射.  所以我查了一下，發現字典給的定義是寬的，早期例句也似乎是寬的.  感覺上是大陸用法變窄了，而不是台灣用得「過於寬泛」.


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## NewAmerica

你该问下楼主的学生是否绝大多数来自大陆、极少数来自台湾？ 有的放矢，才能精确有效地使用语言。


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## Skatinginbc

是的，既使已經說明「教材」在大陸指教課書 (#4)、在台灣指教學材料 (#5)，這樣還不夠，還得乖乖坐到車尾巴去當二等公民，乖乖承認自己的語言是次等貨. 

是的，只因我操的是國語而非普通話，以後每次發言之前還得問問有沒有發言權，既使是回答像Yuechu這樣的老朋友的問題.


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## NewAmerica

汉语是世界上最优秀的语言之一，大陆的普通话或白话文与台湾的国语同属汉语，没有谁高谁低的问题。你过敏了。
可以并驾齐驱的：我说用得“宽泛”，是基于大陆方面的应用，而你认为准确恰当，是基于台湾方面的应用，楼主因地制宜即可。


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## yuechu

It is interesting to see that there are regional differences about the word 教材. I am happy to learn (and others are too, I think) about Chinese usage in all Chinese-speaking areas. Thank you, everyone, for your helpful contributions!


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## Aminoacow

Not sure about the regional differences, but 教材 mainly means the textbooks used in lectures. Commonly, it is also referred to as 课本. see: 教材_百度百科

教材 can also be used to refer to handouts (讲义). 

Since material here is neither textbooks nor handouts, 内容 is a better choice.


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## Skatinginbc

Aminoacow said:


> Commonly, it is also referred to as 课本. see: 教材_百度百科..


I read the linked article and found the term 音像教材，which is obviously not a 課本 (textbook).  Does that mean 音像教材 is not a 教材，just as 鯨魚 is not a 魚？

I also found the definition 供教學用的資料 for 教材 in your linked article.  And I think this definition fits perfectly in the context of the OP's sentence.  So, may I conclude that this definition is no longer in use in the Mainland despite the fact that it is still mentioned in Mainland's publications such as the 百度百科 article?


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## Aminoacow

Skatinginbc said:


> I read the linked article you gave and found the term 音像教材，which is obviously not a 課本 (textbook).  Does that mean 音像教材 is not a 教材，just as 鯨魚 is not a 魚？



Quote from the Baidu Baike entry


> 除教材以外，还有各类指导书和补充读物；工具书、挂图、图表和其他教学辅助用具，教学程序软件包；幻灯片、电影片、音像磁盘等。


Translation: Apart from 教材, there are different sorts of guidebooks and supplementary readings, reference work, pictures, charts, other tooling that assists teaching, educational software, slides, movies and multi-media disks. This particular sentence is rather a mess. I don't understand the use of the comma and semicolons; they make no sense to me .

Note that it uses the phrase "除...以外" (apart from ...), which clearly tells that these are not part of 教材. It is quite confusing to have this sentence in the context.

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Skatinginbc said:


> I also found the definition 供教學用的資料 for 教材 in your linked article.  And I think this definition fits perfectly in the context of the OP's sentence.



This is a quite good point. If we take the phrase apart into "教" and "材", it is not difficult to understand the meaning of the phrase, i.e. materials (材) used in teaching and lecturing (教). I guess this is how the phrase was used in the past (ancient China). However, in Mandarin or a more modern form of Chinese, the meaning is... well... narrowed. If you read further, the wiki says:



> 1.根据教学大纲和实际需要，为师生教学应用而编选的材料。主要有教科书、讲义、讲授提纲等。
> 茅盾《童年·父亲的抱负》：“他有些新的教材要我学习。”.
> 2.泛指对人有教育作用的材料。
> 浩然《艳阳天》第一○三章：“那个从苦难岁月里挣扎过来的老人，亲身经历就是对晚辈人最有效的教材。”.


Translation:
1. Materials selected, edited and produced for lecturers and students' use in teaching and study, including textbooks, lecture notes and handouts, and lecture outline(讲授提纲).
2. Describes anything that can be taken as an (positive) example (translator: such as heroic moments of great persons) in education. (Poorly translated, limited by my English ability).

The above two are the most common use of 教材 in Mandarin. Please note these materials are "selected, edited and produced" by authorities or lecturers and thus, they are usually quite comprehensive. However, in the original question, materials are chosen by students randomly. My guess is these materials are parts of a 教材.

Hope this helps.


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## Skatinginbc

Aminoacow said:


> Materials selected, edited and produced for lecturers and students' use in teaching and study, including textbooks, lecture notes and handouts, and lecture outline(讲授提纲).


 To me, 「主要有...等」means it is just a short list of examples.  It is by no means a complete list.  Besides, it is a list of examples for 主要的教材, implying 次要的教材 (也是教材) is not on the list.


Aminoacow said:


> 2. Describes anything that can be taken as an (positive) example (translator: such as heroic moments of great persons) in education. (Poorly translated, limited by my English ability).


泛指對人有教育作用的材料: any material that provides an educational function for people.


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## Aminoacow

Skatinginbc said:


> To me, 「主要有...等」means it is just a short list of examples.  It is by no means a complete list.  Besides, it is a list of examples for 主要的教材, implying 次要的教材 (也是教材) is not on the list.



I accept your criticism. I shouldn't have used including; it is rather a "for example".

Here I found a more comprehensive explanation of 教材:



> 教材的定义有广义和狭义之分。
> 
> 广义的教材指课堂上和课堂外教师和学生使用的所有教学材料，比如......总之，广义的教材不一定是装订成册或正式出版的书本。凡是有利于学习者增长知识或发展技能的材料都可称之为教材。
> 
> 狭义的教材就是教科书。......


Weblink: 教材体_互动百科

My translations:
--------
_教材 can be defined in both broad and narrow senses.

In a broad sense, 教材 describes all sorts of material that is used in or out of class by students and teachers. Such material is not necessary packed in form of a book or booklet or published. Any material that delivers knowledge or promotes learners' skills can be referred to as 教材.

In a narrow sense, 教材 means textbooks._
--------

The narrow sense is used more frequently in day-to-day life and oral Chinese, which, I trust, is the reason why it is called the narrow sense.

For example, when we say "这是一套为小学生定制的教材" (this is a series of 教材 tailored for primary school students), we would automatically interpret it as a series of textbooks.
Edit: we would also accept if it is an e-textbook with or without interactive elements.

For many items that can be described by the board sense of 教材, we would use their exclusive terms. For example, handouts, although sometimes were called as 教材, more often it is 讲义.

I'm not sure if the above examples are also the case in Taiwan, but doesn't it sound strange to you by calling a page in a textbook 教材? And I don't think you would call a story book 教材 either. I believe the broad sense of 教材 is more often found in law or academic research.




> 泛指對人有教育作用的材料: any material that provides an educational function for people.


And thanks for this.


Edit: I just found an interesting article written in Unsimplified/Traditional Chinese. However, I have not got any time to look into it, (Time for bed here in the UK) but you might be interested. http://web.nchu.edu.tw/pweb/users/tcwliao/lesson/2416.doc


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## Skatinginbc

Aminoacow said:


> 这是一套...的教材


這是一套為大專英語會話課設計的教材 ==> I would assume that it includes audiotapes or a computer disk that contains audio files.
這是一套為研究所統計課設計的教材 ==>  I would assume that it includes a computer disk containing statistical programs such as ANOVA analysis.


Aminoacow said:


> doesn't it sound strange to you by calling a page in a textbook 教材?


Yes，because a textbook is already a 教材.  It sounds idiomatic to me however if a teacher says 今天要用的教材是報紙的一頁.  An instructional material for a lesson is called 教材 in Taiwan.  I assume it is called 材料 in Mainland China.


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> Yes，because a textbook is already a 教材.  It sounds idiomatic to me however if a teacher says 今天要用的教材是報紙上的一頁.  An instructional material for a lesson is called 教材 in Taiwan.  I assume it is called 材料 in Mainland China.



    I respect Skating's opinion here because he's familiar with Taiwan's education.

    A teacher in Mainland would, however, speak to students with "今天的讲课*内容*是……“ - it is *内容* rather than 材料 that is far more familiar with Mainland people。


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