# family is... family are



## franso

I've seen both of them in black and white lately.

According to English grammar I belive "family is " is wrong.

??


----------



## antiflag009

Puede Decir:
Family is - La famila es
Families are - Las familas son

Puede solo decir "Family is" 
"Family are" no funciona.


----------



## pablocoba

family es singular, a pesar de referirse a un grupo de personas


----------



## franso

"My family are from Rome"

This is the sentence I've seen on an English grammar book ?

Is it ok?


----------



## pablocoba

that is wrong..... 

=]

My family is from .....


----------



## Bridgita

Family IS . . . Family is singular, a collective noun

_*Usage Note*_: In American usage, a collective noun takes a singular verb when it refers to the collection considered as a whole, as in _The family was united on this question. The enemy is suing for peace._ It takes a plural verb when it refers to the members of the group considered as individuals, as in _My family are always fighting among themselves. The enemy were showing up in groups of three or four to turn in their weapons._ In British usage, however, collective nouns are more often treated as plurals: _The government have not announced a new policy. The team are playing in the test matches next week._ A collective noun should not be treated as both singular and plural in the same construction; thus _The family is determined to press its_ (not _their_) _claim._ Among the common collective nouns are _committee, clergy, company, enemy, group, family, flock, public,_ and _team._ See Usage Notes at government, group.​


----------



## xOoeL

Wikipedia said:
			
		

> In BrE, singular nouns that describe multiple people are usually treated as plural, particularly where one is concerned with the people constituting the team, rather than with the team as an entity. The singular form is usually used in American. For example, British "the team are worried"; American "the team is worried". Americans may use the plural form when the individual membership is clear, for example, "the team take their seats" (not "the team takes its seat(s)"), although it is almost always rephrased to avoid the singular/plural decision, as in "the team members take their seats". The difference occurs for all collective nouns, both general terms such as _team_ and _company_ and proper nouns (for example, where a place name is used to refer to a sports team). Proper nouns which are plural in form take a plural verb in both AmE and BrE. Examples:
> 
> BrE: "The Clash are a well-known band." AmE: "The Clash is a well-known band." Both: "The Beatles are a well-known band."
> BrE: "Pittsburgh are the champions." AmE: "Pittsburgh is the champion." Both: "The Steelers are the champions".
> Use of the singular verb is not wrong in such instances in BrE. At least one authority (_E. Gowers, The Complete Plain Words, 1986_) indicates that either is acceptable (provided that usage is not mixed or inconsistent within the same document), and that (as implied above) the choice of verb form may be chosen according to whether the emphasis is on the body as a whole or on the individual members (for example, "A committee _was_ appointed ...; but "the committee _were_ unable to agree ...").



En España enseñan inglés británico .


----------



## Loob

Absolutely right, in British English collective nouns can take either singular or plural verbs depending on whether the focus is on individual members or on the group as a whole.  Both "my family is from Rome" and "my family are from Rome" would be correct, depending on the emphasis on individual members of the family or the family as an entity.  I believe that in American English, you would need to say "is".

Loob


----------



## E-D

Oh my!
this has been bugging me since I landed in the UK a decade ago, thank you so much for making sense out of it! 
(My other half is from the US so he wasn't much help ;D only to confuse me even more!) It is funny how it works.


----------



## Blixa

So, it´s correct:

"Depeche mode is playing tomorrow" and "Depeche Mode are playing tomorrow"


----------



## Loob

Blixa said:


> So, it´s correct:
> 
> "Depeche mode is playing tomorrow" and "Depeche Mode are playing tomorrow"


 

I *think* so, technically, but see below!

It's certainly OK to use either singular or plural in the context of orchestras:  "The Royal Symphony Orchestra is/are playing tomorrow".  Similarly for football teams: "Arsenal is/are playing at home tomorrow".

But funnily enough, I think Brits would normally say "are" for a band.  Not sure why: maybe because we're thinking of the individual musicians, maybe because so many band names are plural.  ("The Beatles is playing..." would be impossible).

I definitely feel more comfortable with "Depeche Mode are playing tomorrow".

This is complicated, isn't it!

Loob


----------



## chime

Loob said:


> I definitely feel more comfortable with "Depeche Mode are playing tomorrow".


Yo también, y aún más cuando se trata de los equipos de fútbol. "Arsenal *is* playing well" suena _yucky _para mí.

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con lo que ha dicho Loob en cuanto a "My family is/are..."

¡Aviso para los hispanohablantes que están aprendiendo inglés!: Ojo cuando un estadounidense te dice "That is wrong y punto" porque suele querer decir "That is wrong *in the USA *y punto", sin importarle cómo se habla inglés en el resto del mundo.


----------



## Bridgita

chime said:


> Yo también, y aún más cuando se trata de los equipos de fútbol. "Arsenal *is* playing well" suena _yucky _para mí.
> 
> Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con lo que ha dicho Loob en cuanto a "My family is/are..."
> 
> ¡Aviso para los hispanohablantes que están aprendiendo inglés!: Ojo cuando un estadounidense te dice "That is wrong y punto" porque suele querer decir "That is wrong *in the USA *y punto", sin importarle cómo se habla inglés en el resto del mundo.


 
No, if you scroll up you will see plainly that my post says "In american usage . . . . " I didn't say what definitively right or wrong BE.


----------



## chime

Será que no me refería a ti , aunque sí dijiste "Family IS ... Family is singular, a collective noun" antes de poner lo del Usage Note.


----------



## Bridgita

chime said:


> Será que no me refería a ti , aunque sí dijiste "Family IS ... Family is singular, a collective noun" antes de poner lo del Usage Note.


 
So what's your point?

It says AMERICAN USAGE!! I was speaking for Americans, thank you very much. We'll speak for ourselves and you need not tell anyone else what we mean when we speak!

¡Aviso para los hispanohablantes que están aprendiendo inglés!: Ojo cuando un estadounidense te dice "That is wrong y punto" porque suele querer decir "That is wrong *in the USA *y punto", sin importarle cómo se habla inglés en el resto del mundo.  ---You're wrong, and frankly rude.


----------



## xOoeL

Bueno, dejadlo ya.
La generalización de chime no es muy acertada.
Por otro lado, a mí me sorprendió que ninguno de los estadounidenses hubiera advertido de que "my family are" es correcto en otros sitios hasta que yo lo dije.  ¿Será que no lo saben?

Un saludo.


----------



## chime

Bridgita said:


> So what's your point?
> 
> It says AMERICAN USAGE!! I was speaking for Americans, thank you very much. We'll speak for ourselves and you need not tell anyone else what we mean when we speak!
> 
> ¡Aviso para los hispanohablantes que están aprendiendo inglés!: Ojo cuando un estadounidense te dice "That is wrong y punto" porque suele querer decir "That is wrong *in the USA *y punto", sin importarle cómo se habla inglés en el resto del mundo.  ---You're wrong, and frankly rude.


Mi punto es el siguiente:

Franso es de España (en su perfil dice "spanish from spain") y allí aprenden inglés británico. No creo que le vaya a ayudar mucho si al hacer una pregunta sobre la gramática inglesa le contestan unos cuantos estadounidenses diciéndole que tal cosa es "incorrecta" y punto, cuando simplemente no es así. En un par de otros foros que leo he notado que esto es algo que pasa *mucho*, pues de ahí el comentario (un poco sarcástico) que hice.

By the way, you seem quite rude to me too.


----------



## chime

xOoeL said:


> Por otro lado, a mí me sorprendió que ninguno de los estadounidenses hubiera advertido de que "my family is" es correcto en otros sitios hasta que yo lo dije. ¿Será que no lo saben?
> 
> Un saludo.


Hola. Creo que has querido decir "my family are". No puedo hablar por los estadounidenses, pero por lo que he notado diría que no lo saben porque han aprendido que está mal. A ver qué te dicen ellos...


----------



## xOoeL

Sí, quería decir "my family are".


----------



## Blixa

Loob said:


> I *think* so, technically, but see below!
> 
> It's certainly OK to use either singular or plural in the context of orchestras: "The Royal Symphony Orchestra is/are playing tomorrow". Similarly for football teams: "Arsenal is/are playing at home tomorrow".
> 
> But funnily enough, I think Brits would normally say "are" for a band. Not sure why: maybe because we're thinking of the individual musicians, maybe because so many band names are plural. ("The Beatles is playing..." would be impossible).
> 
> I definitely feel more comfortable with "Depeche Mode are playing tomorrow".
> 
> This is complicated, isn't it!
> 
> Loob


 

Regarding bands, orchestras and football teams, I understood everything, but you are right, this is complicated!


----------



## Redline2200

Everyone needs to calm down.

A) Those of you who are non-American (be it British, Spanish or whatever applies) need to get your self-centered and narrowminded views of Americans out of your heads, because it is coming off as a little offending. I am American and was 100% aware of the fact that people in Great Britain talk that way; do not assume we *all* do not know just because the ones who happen to see the thread did not. 
Another point to take into account is that all of our American movies and music are plastered all over the world for people to watch and listen to, and for better or for worse, you are quite familiar with the way we talk, but we cannot say the same for you. I have spoken with plenty of Brits who were very familiar with American English, but I apologize (as much as I would even love to be) I cannot say that I am that familiar with BE. You must take this in account when discussing how much we Americans "know."

B)We Americans need to do something about our image of stupidity and ignorance in the rest of the world and try to show some respect. The sad truth is that there are a lot of very selfish and ignorant Americans and maybe our image amongst the other peoples of the world is not completely undeserved, but we capable Americans should be working twice as hard to repair our image to make up for the idiots who have ruined it for all us.

Sure Americans have a reputation of being ignorant and non-observant of the rest of the world, but the truth is, you have to give us the benefit of the doubt, just as we do with you. I hope I am not coming off to strong; writing something online is dangerous because you cannot tell things like tone of voice. I do not want you to think I am screaming or angry. In fact, quite the contrary, I do not want to upset anyone. 

I am merely trying to stick up for the terrible image my country has in the eyes of the rest of the world and hope that I can do so in a diplomatic and non-threatening way.


----------



## xOoeL

Yo estaba hablando de los estadounidenses que habían contestado, no de todos ellos, por supuesto.

De todas formas, tus explicaciones son bienvenidas.


----------



## Redline2200

gracias por no enojarte 
temía que era demasiado grosero lo que escribí


----------



## E-D

Pasa lo mismo con el idioma español según de qué país sea el que escribe.
No worries ;D


----------



## Bridgita

xOoeL said:


> Yo estaba hablando de los estadounidenses que habían contestado, no de todos ellos, por supuesto.
> 
> De todas formas, tus explicaciones son bienvenidas.


 
I assume you are referring to me when you say this. I said in my post "American Usage" and for that matter, how was I to know what usage of English was being referred to whether it be AE or BE, and you seem quite adamant saying that "Family are" is the correct way, so it appears you are the one suggesting that the BE way is correct and that the AE way was not. And as I said earlier, you can speak for yourself, do not speak for me or any other American because we were born with mouths (and fingers) too. I don't care if you think I'm rude, you were the one trying to judge and talk rudely of strangers.


----------



## samarje

En los estados unidos, tambien puede decir "My family members are from..." y es correcto. A veces cuando personas hablan muy rapidamente omiten la palabra "members" y solo dicen "My family are from..."


----------



## xOoeL

Bridgita said:


> I assume you are referring to me when you say this. I said in my post "American Usage" and for that matter, how was I to know what usage of English was being referred to whether it be AE or BE, and you seem quite adamant saying that "Family are" is the correct way, so it appears you are the one suggesting that the BE way is correct and that the AE way was not. And as I said earlier, you can speak for yourself, do not speak for me or any other American because we were born with mouths (and fingers) too. I don't care if you think I'm rude, you were the one trying to judge and talk rudely of strangers.



Huy, huy.

1. No estoy hablando de ti, sino de todos
2. Yo no he dicho nunca qué es correcto y qué no.
3. Gracias por enseñarme una palabra nueva (adamant)

I think that you have misunderstood my words.  What I said was:


> *1st post: *
> In Spain they teach British English





> *2nd post: *
> Stop there.
> chime was not correct when he generalized.
> By the way, I was surprised because any of the US citizens informed that "my family is" is correct in other places until I said it.  Maybe they don't know it.
> 
> Best regards.





> *3rd post:*
> Yes, I meant "my family are" [And then I changed my 2nd post]





> *4rt post:*
> I was talking about those US citizens that had answered, not of all of them, of course.
> 
> Anyway, your explanations are welcomed





> *this post:*
> Oops,
> 
> 1. I was not talking about you, but every one
> 2. I never said what is correct and what is not
> 3. Thank you, I didn't know the word adamant


----------



## Loob

Hey guys, let's calm down here.

What we're all after is working out how to solve differences between Spanish and English. And in so doing, we're working together, rather than fighting each other.  There will - of course - be times when we disagree.  But they're not important, since we're all after the same objective.  So... when we disagree, let's agree to disagree!

Love and light!

Loob


----------

