# computer mouses or mice  [plural?]



## Hutschi

Hi,

what is the right plural of "computer mouse", and why?

Best regards
Bernd


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## panjandrum

It's always been mice where I work.
Why?
Because the plural of mouse is mice.


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## Anwis

Yup,  panjandrum is right. It is MICE.

WHY? Because mouse is an arregular noun that changes completely when pluralized.

Regards!


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## Hutschi

Thank you.
I asked this, because I found examples for "computer mouses", especially in a book from Stephen Pinker about words and rules.

But this was some years old. He stated that in the beginning "mouses" was used additionally to "mice", because they are new technical devices and the connection to the living mouse could be blocked in the brain.

Best regards
Bernd


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## jinti

Actually, I've heard _mouses_ quite a bit, and more than _mice_, I'd say.  (To tell the truth, a lot of people where I work hesitate a second before saying either _mice_ or _mouses_, pick one, and grin sheepishly no matter which they've said.)

The Merriam Webster and American Heritage dictionaries list both forms.

I prefer _mouses_ because it distinguishes the computer gadget from the rodent, but that's just personal preference.


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## foxfirebrand

I think _mice_ has pretty much won out-- I hear it  and use it, and I don't much like rodents either.
.
.


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## mgarizona

I think I'd go with mouses.

You can call a person a louse. If a second person treats you as 'lousily' I honestly can't imagine anyone saying, "What a couple of lice!" You would say 'what a couple of louses' and you wouldn't be wrong.

What do you know, went ahead and checked the OED. Nothing on 'louses' but under mouse they list the plural 'mouses' specifically for sense #4: 

_Technical uses_. Applied to various things resembling a mouse in shape or appearance

There's even a citation using 'mouses' from 1769.


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## Hutschi

Thank you very much. The discussion supports, that the usage is not fix yet. At the end, it is what Pinker wrote. There are two different rules excluding each other in this sense. So it may depend on who is my audience what to select as technical writer.

Best regards
Bernd


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## übermönch

Wait a sec., google prooves "computer mice" is 7 times as popular as "computer mouses", I would go with it. This thing *is *a rodent.


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## Oceanrandom

jinti said:


> Actually, I've heard _mouses_ quite a bit, and more than _mice_, I'd say. (To tell the truth, a lot of people where I work hesitate a second before saying either _mice_ or _mouses_, pick one, and grin sheepishly no matter which they've said.)
> 
> The Merriam Webster and American Heritage dictionaries list both forms.
> 
> I prefer _mouses_ because it distinguishes the computer gadget from the rodent, but that's just personal preference.


 

Agreed!  Working as a network admin over the last 6 years, we run into this all the time.  ...and it's always stated with the same confused face.  "Did you bring the, er, Mouses?  ...Mice?"

I prefer Mouses because it sets apart from the rodent.  But seeing as how it was probably name a mouse becuase of the resemblence, Mice is probably more correct.  I will not conform though


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## foxfirebrand

übermönch said:


> This thing *is *a rodent.


What an excellent point!
.
.


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## Hutschi

Correction: The correct name of the author, I mentioned above, is Steven Pinker.


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## IT lady

Hi Hutschi,

Just to let you know, i found myself asking the same question and found the below helpful!

MOUSE is an acronym, and is short for *M*anually-*O*perated *U*ser-*S*election *E*quipment so technically MOUSE is already the plural (... Equipments?) Most people, however pluralise acronyms, and initials in general, by adding a small s, so it would be MOUSEs, which seems a bit silly. Mice is also wrong, as it doesn't stand for anything, but it does make more grammatical sense than calling them MOUSE or MOUSEs. (NB: If a MOUSE was so called because it looked like the animal, then mice would be correct, but that isn't the case, although small body, long tail, who knows...)


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## Lexiphile

Hi Lady, and welcome to the forum.

But are you sure about that acronym?  Is the story perhaps apocryphal?  There are (especially in IT) lots of acronyms that were thought up "after the fact," so to speak.  Can you offer any factual corroboration, references, ancient documents or such like?


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## panjandrum

Whether or not mouse is an acronym, and having been in the IT industry since long before mice I very much doubt that, the current industry plural is mice.

Manually-Operated User-Selection Equipment is a fairly awful backronym - a retrospective pseudo-humorous attempt to find words for which mouse could be an acronym.

The device does not select users, apart from anything else.


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## Monkey F B I

The original word "mouse", when referring to computers, is not an acronym. To avoid all this confusion, you can simply say "mouse device" or "mouse devices". This is in common usage and widely recognized (it's also what Microsoft suggests for technical document writers).

That being said, I'll stick with "mouses".


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## ewie

It has always seemed to me that those people who see an actual resemblance between computer mice and real mice are blessed with very great imagination ... or crap eyesight

Welcome to the Forum, ITLady


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## Mr.X Senior

20 years ago in Asia's IT field, it was called "pointing device". Only in mid 90s I noticed it was been changed to "mouse" to move along with MS Windows 3.1.

So I would go for *M*anually-*O*perated *U*ser-*S*election *E*quipment.


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## Monkey F B I

Mr.X Senior said:


> 20 years ago in Asia's IT field, it was called "pointing device". Only in mid 90s I noticed it was been changed to "mouse" to move along with MS Windows 3.1.
> 
> So I would go for *M*anually-*O*perated *U*ser-*S*election *E*quipment.



The word "Mouse" in computing goes back to 1965.

I've checked a bunch of websites with acronym databases, and all of them list "Manually Operated User Selection Equipment (humor)". I believe this would mean the original term "mouse", when used in this sense, is not an acronym.


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## Lexiphile

Monkey F B I said:


> The word "Mouse" in computing goes back to 1965.



As it happens, *I* also go back to 1965 in computing, but the only mice I can remember were those under the floor eating the cables.  Can you offer any factual corroboration, references, ancient documents or such like?  (This is getting to be a habit!)


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## IT lady

I'd like to stick with my version 

But if someone gives a better explanation then i could be swayed! 

Didn't expect any response from this as i replied to a 2006 post, but its nice to see what you have all replied! 

Thanks


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## Matching Mole

M.O.U.S.E. is a backronym. The acronyms constructed after the fact are very common, I think because people find them attractive, regardless of their validity. The device was called a mouse as early as the 60s, after its similarity to a small creature with a tail (the cable).

"Mice" is the more usual plural, but mouses is accepted on the basis of it being a "headless word", a word in some way divorced from its original semantic origin, and therefore looked at afresh when constructing a plural or other grammatical forms. Another example is "still life", a form of artwork, whose plural is "still lifes".

Coincidentally, I had a conversation with Hewlett Packard customer support yesterday regarding malfunctioning mice and I used the plural "mouses" without thinking. I was a bit surprised at hearing myself say this, but I must subconsciously feel that I should treat it as a "headless word".


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## Monkey F B I

Lexiphile said:


> As it happens, *I* also go back to 1965 in computing, but the only mice I can remember were those under the floor eating the cables.  Can you offer any factual corroboration, references, ancient documents or such like?  (This is getting to be a habit!)



It was first written as "mouse" in Bill English's publication "Computer-Aided Display Control."

Source


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## Mr.X Senior

Checking one of my PC Assembly language book which was published in 1994, plural of mouse, which is pointing deice, was refered as "mice".

If I remember correctly, IBM OS/2 and Apple called them pointing devices till MS Windows 3.1 ( I believe even window 3.0 called it as pointing device ). It was developed in 1965 and wasn't called "mouse", I am very sure of it.


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## RolandLavengro

It is probably alright to use either mouses or mice - as we can pronounce either as eye-thu or eethe - that is there doesn't have to be a rule, both are acceptable. I hope this addresses your question.


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## languageGuy

Check out http://www.superkids.com/aweb/pages/features/mouse/mouse.html, an interview with the creator of the mouse.


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## Elwintee

Hutschi said:


> Thank you.
> I asked this, because I found examples for "computer mouses", especially in a book from Stephen Pinker about words and rules.
> 
> But this was some years old. He stated that in the beginning "mouses" was used additionally to "mice", because they are new technical devices and the connection to the living mouse could be blocked in the brain.
> 
> Best regards
> Bernd



Further to the Stephen Pinker quote, I believe that Walkman (the play-back gadget) is always Walkmans in the plural, rather than Walkmen.


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## johndot

Years ago, on my first day of ‘computer basics’ training, I, too, wondered about _mouse_ and _mice_ (for about 20 seconds) and decided that, if in doubt, I would do as Sylvester the Cat does (if indeed it is he) and splutteringly refer to the infernal things as ‘meeces’.


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## Oeco

Over at NewspaperArchive.com the earliest use of the word "Mouse" for the input device is September 4, 1986.  It's an article explaining what this input device is and the plural they use is "mice."  



> Consultants recommend electronic mice over mechanical types due to maintenance and reliability factors. While they were once more expensive, some electronic mice are now very competitively priced For instance, Summagraphic's new
> SummaMouse is priced at $119


 Tyrone (PA) Daily News.


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## cocorico

I love this discussion and, here definitely, I will thank the French (they love to "_ergoter_"). "_Souris_" spells the same singular or plural ! (Actually, the word "_souris_" is feminine and, no, the masculine form isn't "_rat_" !)


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## ewie

I _think_ I say 'mouses' ... not sure because I seldom refer to more than one of them.  (I talk about real mice far more often)


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## kitenok

I've been casually collecting examples of this usage for a few years now. And just when I was about ready to declare "mice" the undisputed champion in this fight, I saw a box labeled "mouses" in the electronics section of a North Florida thrift store the other day.


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## Lexiphile

kitenok said:


> I've been casually collecting examples of this usage for a few years now. And just when I was about ready to declare "mice" the undisputed champion in this fight, I saw a box labeled "mouses" in the electronics section of a North Florida thrift store the other day.


 
... but there is no reason to feel certain that, had the box been in the pets department and contained real live rodent-type mice, it would still not have been labelled "mouses."  I think you should carry on with your former belief, Kitenok.


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## PaulQ

I have a feeling that all neologisms (save in some cases where they are a compound word) and introduced words are regular. It therefore would depend on whether you see 'mouse' in this sense as a neologism or an adaptation. 

I also have a nagging feeling that there is at least one (more) example of a noun with an irregular plural in the original meaning and a regular one in the new but I simply can't bring it to mind.


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## ewie

PaulQ said:


> I also have a nagging feeling that there is at least one (more) example of a noun with an irregular plural in the original meaning and a regular one in the new but I simply can't bring it to mind.


Maybe you're thinking of that other venerable obsolete chestnut _Walkman_, Mr.Q

I've always thought _brainchildren_ was a funny-sounding word, as in


> _I have always preferred da Vinci's somewhat preposterous brainchildren to his decidedly dull paintings._


(Not really: I've never pluralized _brainchild_ in my life.)


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## PaulQ

"Brainchildren"!  I see "The Village of the Damned/The Midwich Cuckoos" - of course there's always mongoose/mongeese...


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## glentom

The American Heritage "Science Dictionary" lists both mice and mouses as the acceptable plural.  I suspect that will be the norm going forward.  I prefer mouses, just because it is then set apart from the animal.  In the "Computing Dictionary" as referenced at dictionary.com, it lists the defintion of a mouse as "The most commonly used computer pointing device, first introduced by Douglas Engelbart in 1968." which seems to differ from some of the history I have seen in this forum.  I agree that the acronym also referenced in this forum was probably coined later.


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## Packard

This discussion has been added to a previous thread. 
Cagey, moderator. 

I've asked a similar question recently, but here goes.

We all know that the plural of "mouse" is "mice".

And we all know what a computer mouse is.  And that computer "mouse" is always a "mouse", and since you have no need for two of them per computer they are never "mice".

So when discussing the fact that my computer mouse (wired) died and a co-worker still had a wired mouse, I suggested we get two new wireless "mouses".

So does "mouses" work here?  I think it does.


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## PaulQ

Neologisms _tend _to be weak nouns (and verbs.) -> mouse -> mouses (even when there is a previous pattern.)


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## Hildy1

It would appear from this Ngram that "computer mice" is frequent in their sources, and "computer mouses" is practically nonexistent.
Google Ngram Viewer

I don't know whether or not that reflects general usage. I have certainly heard both.


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## PaulQ

Hildy1 said:


> It would appear from this Ngram that "computer mice" is frequent in their sources, and "computer mouses" is practically nonexistent.
> Google Ngram Viewer


Unfortunately, your link goes to the comparison of "computer mice,computer *mices*"  Also the link is only valid to 2008, and IT language moves quickly.

Ebay currently has Computer Mouses, Trackballs and Touchpads I assume that they have chosen the current noun that will give the greatest number of hits.


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## Hildy1

PaulQ wrote: 
Unfortunately, your link goes to the comparison of "computer mice,computer *mices*".

Aïe aïe aïe, you are absolutely right. Thank you for catching that terrible typo. Here is a better link, though as you say, it is not up to date.
Google Ngram Viewer


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## PaulQ

Google gives
Computer Mice 317 displayed.
Computer Mouses 178 displayed.

Interestingly: Computer mouses or computer mice? — Pain in the English1


> << If mouse is an acronym for "*m*anually-*o*perated *u*ser-*s*elect *e*quipment" and equipment is plural already, wouldn't mouse (as an acronym) be plural already? >>



1 which is totally unreliable - "*m*anually-*o*perated *u*ser-*s*elect *e*quipment" is a back-formation from "mouse."


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