# j'ai désolé [sic]



## AiméeBeaucoup

Hello,

I was recently watching the French film 'Hors de Prix' and I heard the phrase 'J'ai désolé' quite a lot. Each time I heard it, I thought 'it's wrong! Isn't it?!'

Can somebody tell me whether it is correct French or is it colloquial? I guess 'J'ai désolé' is quicker to say than 'Je suis désolé'.

Thanks!
Aimée


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## Micia93

"j'ai désolé" is awful and totally not french!
yes, it's quicker, but it's not slang. Maybe the guy or girl who said that was poorly educated ?


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## Nico Las

Hi,

"J'ai désolé" doesn't exist in French, it may have been something else you heard. "je suis désolé" is the right way to say I'm sorry.
Does it fit the context ?


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## AiméeBeaucoup

I'm pretty sure he was saying 'J'ai désolé'. It was annoying me a lot - which is why I was forced to ask about it on the forum!


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## Favonius Sylvanus

I just heard the same thing in a French film called Mea Culpa, the woman said 'j'ai desolé.' someone said she may have been foreign. I think she was a 'beur' !


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## MYR974

Peut-être cette personne dans ce film a t-elle dit : "Ch désolé".
Ce son "ch" est la contraction de la contraction de la contraction de "Je suis" qui devient "chui" qui devient "chu" qui devient "ch". C'est une prononciation d'enfants, ou de personnes qui ne se soucient pas de l’académisme, ou dans le cadre familial. On peut parfois y être amené par paresse ou sous le coup d'une forte émotion, et aussi quand il fait très froid.
Dans ce cas, un non francophone peut entendre "J'ai" à la place de "ch", car ce sont des sons très proches : en phonétique, ce sont tous deux des post-avéolaires fricatives *ʃ* et *ʒ*  qui ne diffèrent que par leur "caractère de rondeur" (le rond qu'on forme ou qu'on ne forme pas avec les lèvres).
Ainsi le "Ch désolé" évite d'écarter les lèvres vers les oreilles, ce qui aurait été nécessaire avec un "chui" ou "je suis".


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## Mac0312

I am sure I have heard "J'ai desole" in several episodes of the film Engrenage (Spiral) on television, spoken by the people playing the part of Parisian policemen. Can anyone else please confirm this? It is driving me mad as when I ask French friends they all say I must be wrong. If it is "ch desole" would Parisian policemen say this??


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## SwissPete

Can't find any example of J_'ai désolé_ on the web. What does it mean, anyway? The same as _Je suis désolé _?


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## Gérard Napalinex

I trust you heard what you say you did.
Now I believe only the transcription of it is wrong.
My guess is that it should spell "j'est" like a conjugation mistake.
Now policemen using it might be a way of mocking strangers who don't speak proper French, especially homeless ones - yes some French do that


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## MYR974

Mac0312 said:


> If it is "ch désolé" would Parisian policemen say this??


Oui. C'est très fréquent, y compris dans les films. C'est d'autant plus fréquent que les policiers parisiens et beaucoup de gens qui travaillent et vivent à Paris ne sont pas forcément parisiens. Ils viennent de la "province". [...]


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## Kecha

Lovely to hear that contracting "je suis" is childish or uneducated   Not everyone has a "balai dans le cul" and pronounce like in the dictionary all the time. It is extremely common, when not overarticulating, to contract "je suis".


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## OLN

Nico Las said:


> "J'ai désolé" doesn't exist in French


Je ne dirais pas cela. _Désoler _étant transitif direct, on peut avoir désolé quelqu'un ou quelque chose.

[...]


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## Thyx

to me "chui désolé" (j'suis désolé) may sound to a native english speaker as "J'ai désolé"...


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## Mac0312

Very interesting. It seems to me the script writer for the Parisian police series Engrenage (Spiral) would use the 'current' language in the scenes he writes so it might not be 'correct' French but how the police might speak when talking to suspects. Would they say 'chui desole' if they are Parisian?


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## Oddmania

It's not particularly Parisian. It might sound like "_Chui / Chu / Ch'désolé_" in any accent depending on how slurred your speech is. Just as "I would have thought" might sound like "I'd've thought" or "I'da thought" in fast speech.

It's either that or "_J'ai dessoûlé_".


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## Thyx

No doubt about that, Mac. Any french, Parisian or not, in a casual conversation, would pronounce it "Chui désolé". It almost sounds like "Shuee" with a muted french i in the end. It's a typical situation with french language to distort the words to the point that listener don't understand what is going on...


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## Mac0312

Oddmania said:


> It's not particularly Parisian. It might sound like "_Chui / Chu / Ch'désolé_" in any accent depending on how slurred your speech is. Just as "I would have thought" might sound like "I'd've thought" or "I'da thought" in fast speech.
> 
> It's either that or "_J'ai dessoûlé_".


J'ai dessoule means what?



Thyx said:


> No doubt about that, Mac. Any french, Parisian or not, in a casual conversation, would pronounce it "Chui désolé". It almost sounds like "Shuee" with a muted french i in the end. It's a typical situation with french language to distort the words to the point that listener don't understand what is going on...


Yes it is puzzling! When watching the film we have English subtitles which translates it as "I am sorry". I'm just wondering about my hearing if I hear Chui as J'ai.


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## In-Su

Mac0312 said:


> J'ai dessoûlé means what?


I've sobered up.


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## Tambala Tambala

The Belgian series The Break (La Trêve) is full of characters who say "J'ai desolé" (or perhaps "J'ai desolée") in every episode. 
For example, "J'ai desolé d'hier" (I'm sorry about yesterday). I'm not quite sure why someone would say that it doesn't exist.


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## jekoh

You must have misunderstood. People say it does not exist, because it does not exist.


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## danielc

Mac0312 said:


> I am sure I have heard "J'ai desole" in several episodes of the film Engrenage (Spiral) on television, spoken by the people playing the part of Parisian policemen. Can anyone else please confirm this? It is driving me mad as when I ask French friends they all say I must be wrong. If it is "ch desole" would Parisian policemen say this??


J'ai vu tous les épisodes des 5 premières saisons d'_Engrenages_. Vous entendez un "chui",  ou peut-être "chu", pour "je suis", mais pas un "j'ai". 

Je connais des Scandinaves qui pensent  eux aussi entendre "j'ai" quand il est question de chu/chui. Vous n'avez pas l'habitude de cette version familière de "je suis", c'est tout. Les Canadiens anglais bilingues que je connais n'ont pas de problème semblable.


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## Locape

'Chui désolé' or 'ch désolé' is very common, I say it myself when I'm tired or in a hurry, you hear it all the time in French. But in no case it's 'j'ai désolé', I mean natives can tell if it exists or not!
By the way, welcome to the WR forums, *tambala²*! 
I saw this TV series, if you really want a proof, maybe you can tell in which of the episodes (and time) you heard it and I can check.


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## Tambala Tambala

jekoh said:


> You must have misunderstood. People say it does not exist, because it does not exist.



And I think you also must have misunderstood.
If a linguistic device (word/phrase/clause/ ... etc) is used, then it does actually exist, despite what the deniers might say.
It's all about the conflict between "descriptive grammar", and "prescriptive grammar".

[...] Moderator note: Response to deleted off-topic post removed.


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## Locape

Tambala Tambala said:


> And I think you also must have misunderstood.
> If a linguistic device (word/phrase/clause/ ... etc) is used, then it does actually exist, despite what the deniers might say.
> It's all about the conflict between "descriptive grammar", and "prescriptive grammar".


But when you're mishearing a french expression, it doesn't mean it's used in French and it's not a question of grammar. You sound like you know French better than the French, particularly colloquial French, but if natives tell you 'chui désolé' often sounds like 'j'ai désolé' for foreigners (see post #29), you can trust them! There's so many English words or expressions you can mishear as a foreigner, it's always a surprise when you finally get it ("Are you sure? Because I could have swear I heard...").
You haven't given the exact time and episode of "La Trêve" in which we can hear it. If you really want a proof, please do so.


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## Le Gallois bilingue

_Ouais, désolé _peut-être?


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## jekoh

Tambala Tambala said:


> If a linguistic device (word/phrase/clause/ ... etc) is used, then it does actually exist, despite what the deniers might say.
> It's all about the conflict between "descriptive grammar", and "prescriptive grammar".


My contention is that this linguistic device is *not* used.


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## Locape

Le Gallois bilingue said:


> _Ouais, désolé _peut-être?


Yes, it could be.


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## DeLaMancha

Hi everybody, I think the explanation is that we, French, do not say "j'ai désolé", mais "je suis désolé(e)".
"Chui" is the contraction "Je suis désolé-e". We use it without being aware of it.  
This reminds me the day when an English friend of mine was listening carefully to the chat I was having with my sister in French (of course it's what we are). This friend interrupted us to ask : "What does "chsaipa" mean ?". My sister and I looked at each other, thought for a moment  to try to help him... We didn't find any answer and I finally told him : "I don't know", which in French is "Je ne sais pas". The light came to our brain , "chsaipa" was the contraction of "je ne sais pas" 
Et voilà ! . Bonne journée


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## Locape

Yes, that's funny! It reminds me when I started learning English and asked natives what 'gadda gedda' means, from 'we gadda gedda of here', and when they replied it doesn't mean anything in English, until I realized it actually meant 'we've got to get out of here' pronounced with a strong American accent!


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## Pedro y La Torre

Tambala Tambala said:


> And I think you also must have misunderstood.
> If a linguistic device (word/phrase/clause/ ... etc) is used, then it does actually exist, despite what the deniers might say.
> It's all about the conflict between "descriptive grammar", and "prescriptive grammar".


No. It's not about denying something that one doesn't like to hear. "J'ai désolé" simply doesn't exist. I've no doubt that you thought you heard it but you must have heard something else. Please find a video of a native French speaker saying what you think is "j'ai désolé" and we'll be better able to help you.


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## Michelvar

Pour être très précis :

J'ai pu écouter le fichier sonore transmis par "AiméeBeaucoup" avant qu'il soit supprimé par la modération, et le personnage disait "je suis désolée".
Intrigué par la remarque de Tambala Tambala, j'ai binge-watché (haters gonna hate  ) les deux saisons de la série "la trêve" ce week-end (très sympa, je ne connaissais pas, merci à Tambala Tambala), et je puis confirmer que personne n'y dit "j'ai désolé".


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## Homosum

Mac0312 said:


> I am sure I have heard "J'ai desole" in several episodes of the film Engrenage (Spiral) on television, spoken by the people playing the part of Parisian policemen. Can anyone else please confirm this? It is driving me mad as when I ask French friends they all say I must be wrong. If it is "ch desole" would Parisian policemen say this??


French policemen don't say "I'm sorry" very often...


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## mehoul

Seul un petit enfant qui ne maîtrise pas la langue pourrait dire "j'ai désolé". C'est ce qu'a voulu rendre Louis Pergaud avec la fameuse réplique de _la Guerre des Boutons_ "si j'aurais su j'aurais pas venu".


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## Locape

I told this story to a French friend of mine, he didn't know the Belgian TV series "La Trêve" and he was happy to discover it too. He texted me the exact time in the first episode (season 1) where he heard 'chsui désolé':
5'29'' (ch'suis désolé de vous demander ça)
5'47'' (ch'suis désolé, heu...)
19'22'' (ch'suis désolée: 3 x)
46'08'' (j'suis désolé)
Now @Tambala Tambala can check if he/she heard 'j'ai désolé' there.


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