# Hindi: Bombay-specific words?



## Birdcall

Are the words gaflaa (गफला) and ghoTaalaa (घोटाला) used outside of Bombay? They mean something like a scam or a hoax, kind of like dhokhaa. Gafla reminds me of the ghaplaa (घपला) which is a "real" Hindi word.

Also, are the words lafRaa (लफडा) (problem/fight) and faTaafat (a more emphatic version of jaldi, like "really quickly, immediately") understood outside of Bombay?

Note: The fa's in these words aren't Urdu. They either come from words in which the original pronunciation was pha or they are newly invented words naturally containing fa, since pha is generally pronounced like fa in Bombay Hindi.


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## omlick

I am familiar with घोटाला from BBC Hindi.  लफ़ड़ा is in the McGregor dictonary. although I only learned it from BW dialog.  I think faTaafaat is Mumbai/Bombay speak, because I have never heard of it before except in the Bombay context.


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## Birdcall

Another common Mumbai word I can think of is खलास khalaas (I think with with the Arabic kha sound but I've never actually heard it pronounced that way) meaning many things: A movie can be khalaas (finished/over), a bottle can be khalaas (empty), and a person can be khalaas (screwed, or even dead).


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## omlick

Birdcall said:


> Another common Mumbai word I can think of is खलास khalaas (I think with with the Arabic kha sound but I've never actually heard it pronounced that way) meaning many things: A movie can be khalaas (finished/over), a bottle can be khalaas (empty), and a person can be khalaas (screwed, or even dead).


 
This I believe is an Arabic word meaning "deliverance" in the religious sense and it is a noun, not an adjective.  It seems to have been adapted by Mumbai vaale to mean "kaput, finished," in the "dead meat" sense. It is a slang use, but it is in the McGregor dictionary in its non-slangy sense as well.

It should be "ख़लास" as it is spelled with a خ not کھ as you transliterated it.

My older Urdu dictionary gives its definition as emancipation, freedom, liberation.


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## Faylasoof

Both لفڑا_ lafRaa_ and گھپلا_ g-haplaa_ are used in Urdu too. The former was added around the middle of the last century so you hear them in UP (India) as well as Pakistan. 

لفڑا लफ्डा _lafRaa_ = quarrel, squabble.

घपला گھپلا_ g-haplaa_ = mess / bungle / corruption = _gaRbaR_ گَڑ بَڑ = _abtarii_ ابتری

گھپلا घपला _g-haplaa_ was recently discussed in this thread.

घोटाला _g-hotaalaa_ we don’t use in Urdu but I’ve come across it in text.

फटा फट فٹا فٹ  _faTaa faT_ is also a late (in fact, very late) addition to Urdu. You do hear it although we (myself, family & many Urduphone friends) prefer to say فورا ً _fauran_ or جلد از جلد _jald az jald_.

 Yes, خلاص ख़लास _xalaaS_ is from Arabic and was discussed here.

 BTW, the _pha_ to _fa_ change is not restricted to Mumbay! I’ve heard it used in rural UP too! For example, 
_phir_ پھر (then, again etc.) -> _fir_ فر and _phuul_ پھول (flower) -> _fuul_ فول!


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## Birdcall

Thank you, Faylasoof. "Fir" and "fal" for phir and phal are honestly the only way I hear the words pronounced by Hindi speakers; I'm the only Hindi-speaker I know who pronounces pha as pha, and I'm sure there are words that I pronounce with fa incorrectly. Marathi speakers can take it to the other extreme though; I've heard "pharsT claas" (first class) many times in Mumbai.

I've never heard jald-az-jald, fauran and turant (same meaning) are all commonly used in Mumbai. khalaas is more common than khatm but I don't think it's considered as proper; the most proper Hindi word I can think of for "finished" is samaapt, or simply "ho gaya."

Out of curiosity, have any of you heard the words shaaNiyaa शाणिया (something like "smart ass") and Dhakkan ढक्कन (idiot/fool)? I think these are Mumbaiyya words, since shaaNiya looks like Marathi to me.


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## Subhash Kumar

Birdcall said:


> Marathi speakers can take it to the other extreme though; I've heard "pharsT claas" (first class) many times in Mumbai.


Yes, because there is no "Fa" sound in pure Marathi. Even when words from Farsee/Urdu/English are adapted into Marathi, the Fa sound is changed to Pha.



Birdcall said:


> Out of curiosity, have any of you heard the words shaaNiyaa शाणिया (something like "smart ass") and Dhakkan ढक्कन (idiot/fool)? I think these are Mumbaiyya words, since shaaNiya looks like Marathi to me.


ShaaNiyaa has been derived from Marathi word ShahaaNaa शहाणा which means wise. But ShaaNiyaa is used satirically for too much or extra smart or overly wise.


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## lcfatima

Is _bindaas_ Bombay specific, or was it perhaps before the film of the same name?


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## omlick

bindaas is Marathi, although it is composed of two common Hindi words which themselves derive from Sanskrit:  bin = without, daas = slave.


 Mumbai is in the  Marathi speaking state of India.  Thus any Marathi word is specific to Maharashtra I would assume.


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## Subhash Kumar

omlick said:


> bindaas is Marathi, although it is composed of two common Hindi words which themselves derive from Sanskrit: bin = without, daas = slave.


Bindaas has been derived from Marathi word Bindhaast बिनधास्त which in Marathi is occassionally also pronounced without the last "t" i.e. like Bindhaas.
Bin means without and dhaast comes from dhaasti धास्ती means fear in Marathi. So Bindhaast means one who does not have any fear.
The word has not relation with daas (slave).


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## panjabigator

Is the "d" supposed to be aspirated with "bindaas"?


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## Faylasoof

Birdcall said:


> Thank you, Faylasoof. "Fir" and "fal" for phir and phal are honestly the only way I hear the words pronounced by Hindi speakers; I'm the only Hindi-speaker I know who pronounces pha as pha, and I'm sure there are words that I pronounce with fa incorrectly. Marathi speakers can take it to the other extreme though; I've heard "pharsT claas" (first class) many times in Mumbai.


 You are welcome Birdcall! Well I have heard both "f" and "ph" - aspirated <p>- in UP depending on which company I was in. Also, found the same in Karachi, though less! 

 Believe me, but I've heard this in other parts of the subcontinent too! More like “pharsT kilaas”



Birdcall said:


> I've never heard jald-az-jald, fauran and turant (same meaning) are all commonly used in Mumbai. khalaas is more common than khatm but I don't think it's considered as proper; the most proper Hindi word I can think of for "finished" is samaapt, or simply "ho gaya."
> 
> Out of curiosity, have any of you heard the words shaaNiyaa शाणिया (something like "smart ass") and Dhakkan ढक्कन (idiot/fool)?I think these are Mumbaiyya words, since shaaNiya looks like Marathi to me.


 _jald az jald_جلد از جلد,  is Urdu though some of my Hindiphone friends do use it. This might be due to their familiarity with Urdu. It was derived from  جلدی  -> جلدwith the addition of the Persian از az  in between the repeated motif جلد. It means _as soon as possible / as quickly as posiible_; while فورا ً _fauran _ we use to mean _immediately_. But sometimes the two are used to give the same idea.  

 It is intersting that فورا ً _fauran_ is used in Mumbai but not _jald az jald_ جلد از جلد. We use both all the time. BTW, فورا ً_fauran_ is of Arabic origin.  

 This usage is unfamiliar to me. I know people who say _Dhakkan_ढक्कन when they mean _Dhaknaa_ढक्कनढक्ना = lid / cover.

_shaaNiyaa_ शाणिया I never heard.


 Edit:: 

Subhash, you say : ShaaNiyaa has been derived from Marathi word ShahaaNaa शहाणा which means wise. But ShaaNiyaa is used satirically for too much or extra smart or overly wise. 

What is the origin of this word (_ShahaaNaa_ शहाणा)? Because in Urdu  we have _shaahaanah_ , but pronounced _shaahaanaa_ = regal / regally / royally!
It could be pure coincidence that they sound virtyally the same.


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## Subhash Kumar

panjabigator said:


> Is the "d" supposed to be aspirated with "bindaas"?


No. Mostly it would not be pronounced aspirated. But a native Marathi speaker would perhaps use aspirated sound for 'd' in Bindaas even when speaking Bombay Hindi.


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## omlick

subhash kumar said:


> bindaas has been derived from marathi word bindhaast बिनधास्त which in marathi is occassionally also pronounced without the last "t" i.e. Like bindhaas.
> Bin means without and dhaast comes from dhaasti धास्ती means fear in marathi. So bindhaast means one who does not have any fear.
> The word has not relation with daas (slave).


 

बहुत दिलचस्प है!  शुक्रिया सुधार के लिए।


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## Birdcall

Faylasoof: Shahaanaa and the word which shaaNiya comes from are not pronounced the same: the N is retroflex in the Marathi/Hindi word. Maybe some Hindi speakers don't pronounce it retroflex, but I do just because I speak Tamil so retroflex N and L are natural sounds for me.

Also, yes Dhakkan means cover/lid. I'm not sure if they have the same etymology.

Not all Mumbai-specific Hindi words are from Marathi. Chillar (small change) comes from the Tamil word for change, chilaare (short e as in hen) or something like that...transcribing Tamil is even harder than Hindi.

One more word that I hear a lot even in Bombay Tamil : jaastii जास्ती, meaning too much. Is this Marathi? My family says "Bahut jaastii / Rumba jaastii" (Hindi / Tamil) to mean bahut zyaadaa.


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## panjabigator

Hmm, do they say it with a J sound or that Marathi "zh" sound (not to be confused with the Tamil "zh")?


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## Faylasoof

Birdcall said:


> Faylasoof: Shahaanaa and the word which shaaNiya comes from are not pronounced the same: the N is retroflex in the Marathi/Hindi word. Maybe some Hindi speakers don't pronounce it retroflex, but I do just because I speak Tamil so retroflex N and L are natural sounds for me.


OK! Thanks for the clarification! But what is the etymology of _shahaanaa_? Any ideas?


Birdcall said:


> Also, yes Dhakkan means cover/lid. I'm not sure if they have the same etymology.


They are the same! I just checked Platts, here.
H ڐهکناढकना _Dhaknā_ = H ڐهکنढक्कन _Dhakkan_ s.m. Covering; cover, lid, pot-lid (=_Dhapnā_).


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## Birdcall

panjabigator said:


> Hmm, do they say it with a J sound or that Marathi "zh" sound (not to be confused with the Tamil "zh")?



I'm not sure about Marathi pronunciation rules: ज is sometimes pronounced as ja and sometimes as dza/za. झ is the zha sound (aspirated za, whereas the Tamil zh is almost an English r but with the tongue further back, nothing at all like a j or z): झकास is pronounced as jhakaas in Hindi but probably zhakaas in Marathi.

Jaastii is how it's pronounced in Hindi; I'm not sure about Marathi.

Faylasoof, your word sounds like it comes from shaah (king), which I read was related etymologically to kshatriya and probably has nothing to do with shaaNiyaa.


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## Subhash Kumar

Birdcall said:


> Not all Mumbai-specific Hindi words are from Marathi. Chillar (small change) comes from the Tamil word for change, chilaare (short e as in hen) or something like that...transcribing Tamil is even harder than Hindi.


Yes, not all the Mumbai specific Hindi words are from Marathi. Many are from Gujarati, Urdu etc. But about chillar?? It is used in Marathi for "change of money" as a Marathi word! May be, Marathi might have got it from Tamil? But I have been hearing and using it as a pure Marathi word!



Birdcall said:


> One more word that I hear a lot even in Bombay Tamil : jaastii जास्ती, meaning too much. Is this Marathi? My family says "Bahut jaastii / Rumba jaastii" (Hindi / Tamil) to mean bahut zyaadaa.


Jaasti is a Marathi word. It means too much or bahut zyaadaa.
The "J" in this word is pronounced as normal J as in Hindi i.e palatal sound and NOT the Marathi-specific dental sound for J.


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## Subhash Kumar

Faylasoof said:


> dit::
> 
> Subhash, you say : ShaaNiyaa has been derived from Marathi word ShahaaNaa शहाणा which means wise. But ShaaNiyaa is used satirically for too much or extra smart or overly wise.
> 
> What is the origin of this word (_ShahaaNaa_ शहाणा)? Because in Urdu we have _shaahaanah_ , but pronounced _shaahaanaa_ = regal / regally / royally!
> It could be pure coincidence that they sound virtyally the same.


Sorry, I have absolutely no idea about etymology of ShahaaNaa.
But I don't think it would be related to the Urdu word that you have pointed to because the 'Sha' in ShahaaNaa is always pronounced with short 'a'. The derivation ShaaNiyaa for oversmart gets its long 'a' sound from the 'haa' part of ShahaaNaa. In Marathi as well, it is sometimes pronounced as ShaaNaa.


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## akak

To jump in, my Bombay cousins says "shaana" for smart ass, and "dhakkan" for fool. I've heard 'dhakkan' in Delhi too, as in 'voh bilkul dhakkan hai' - ie a complete idiot. 
Another Bombaiyya word I hear often is "aida' - एड़ा - fool. Another common term is "bhaiyya" - used for UP immigrants (considered bumpkins).


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## drkpp

akak said:


> To jump in, my Bombay cousins says "shaana" for smart ass, and "dhakkan" for fool. I've heard 'dhakkan' in Delhi too, as in 'voh bilkul dhakkan hai' - ie a complete idiot.
> Another Bombaiyya word I hear often is "aida' - एड़ा - fool. Another common term is "bhaiyya" - used for UP immigrants (considered bumpkins).


The original word for fool in Marathi is wedaa - वेडा which has turned to slang word ye-daa & then to aidaa.


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## Birdcall

Does anyone recognize these words:

झोल jhol/zhol

राडा raaDaa

चूर chuur (Powder maybe? I don't think that's what this means.)

I've heard these in Mumbai but never understood what they meant.

Is माजामारी (mazaa-maarii, meaning "having fun" or "wasting time") considered a legitimate Hindi word, and altuu-faltuu / aaltuu-faaltuu (can't remember if the a is long or short) meaning "useless?"

And in Marathi signs I've seen the word फक्त phakt meaning only (sirf/keval); is this the same as the Urdu faqat?


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## panjabigator

Hi Birdcall,

I don't recognize राडा but the others I have definitely seen or heard - I can't peg some of them without context, however.  Plug some of them in shabdkosh.com and see what you get.  

Chur - have you ever consumed Triphala's Chuuran before?  Taken with water, it actually makes drinking muddy water appetizing!  I think "chuur karnaa" is to pulverize.  I have also heard "nashe mein chuur" before. 

<aaltuu faltuu> is useless.  What is its etymology?

And the Marathi "phakt" has to be related to the Urdu equivalent.  Do you hear people use it as well?


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## Birdcall

Yes, "nashe me.N chuur" is where I've heard that word. So does it just mean intoxicated? "chuuraa" and "chuuran" were the words I was thinking of that meant powder.

So it's aaltu-faltu? (First a long, second short?) I Know phaaltuu/faaltuu means extra (same as baaqii maybe?) but I'm not sure if they're related.

I've never heard phakt, just seen it on Marathi signs and the Hindi sign below it always has sirf or keval as the equivalent.

shabdkosh.com has many definitions for jhol, but I think the word I'm looking for is different. I've heard the word zhol which implies that the jhol I've heard is Marathi.


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## panjabigator

> es, "nashe me.N chuur" is where I've heard that word. So does it just mean intoxicated? "chuuraa" and "chuuran" were the words I was thinking of that meant powder.



That's how I'd translate it (and would probably use it).


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## Birdcall

A good article on Mumbaiyya Hindi:

http://rohanrrao.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/mumbaiyya-hindi-samjha-kya/

raaDaa and jhol/zhol mean a problem, which makes sense.

Another word they mentioned was khopcha खोपचा...I think this means a street corner?

shabdkosh.com translated फालतू faaltuu (I've only heard it pronounced this way, never as phaaltuu) as stupid. So aaltuu-faaltuu must be the expression I was thinking of.


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## akak

I've heard jhol used to mean something like, for lack of a better phrase, monkey business... to try to pull a fast one. 'jhol-jhal karna' -- ie to try to trick someone.

faaltu is more like bekaar --useless/worthless, than stupid. 

i think in "nashe me.N chuur" - the chur is meant to emphasize that you are lost, dissolved, pulverized in the intoxication. 

a similar phrase is "thak ke chuur" --- extremely tired - as if your bones are pulverized.


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## omlick

Faylasoof said:


> फटा फट فٹا فٹ _faTaa faT_ is also a late (in fact, very late) addition to Urdu. You do hear it although we (myself, family & many Urduphone friends) prefer to say فورا ً _fauran_ or جلد از جلد _jald az jald_.


 
But what is te etymology of फ़टा फ़ट?


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## omlick

omlick said:


> I am familiar with घोटाला from BBC Hindi. लफ़ड़ा is in the McGregor dictonary. although I only learned it from BW dialog. I think faTaafaat is Mumbai/Bombay speak, because I have never heard of it before except in the Bombay context.


 
H پهٿ *फट* _phaṭ_ [S. स्फट्], Crack, sound of a slap or thump, &c.:—_phaṭ-phaṭ_, s.f.=_phaṭ_; (also) the creaking sound of a shoe, &c.:—_phaṭ-kār_, s.m. Sound of a thump, or of the cracking of a whip, &c., or of the beating of wet clothes against 

I wonder if PhaTaaPhaT is a slang term deriving from the above. Sort of like in English when we say "get cracking."


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## panjabigator

Where did you find that entry?  I search Platts for etymology offline and found nothing.


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## omlick

Birdcall said:


> Yes, "nashe me.N chuur" is where I've heard that word. So does it just mean intoxicated? "chuuraa" and "chuuran" were the words I was thinking of that meant powder.
> 
> .


 
nashe me.n chuur is when you are flat out on the floor drunk.


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> ..Chur - have you ever consumed Triphala's Chuuran before? Taken with water, it actually makes drinking muddy water appetizing! I think "chuur karnaa" is to pulverize. I have also heard "nashe mein chuur" before.
> 
> <aaltuu faltuu> is useless. What is its etymology?
> 
> And the Marathi "phakt" has to be related to the Urdu equivalent. Do you hear people use it as well?



This seems like a really good idea, PG!. Must try it next time! 

 I don't know about the <_aaltuu_> bit, but <_faaltuu_> is from one of the local dialects of western Hindi, supposedly Prakrit. But this is not certain. 

 BTW, you might remember we did this (_faaltuu_) recently together with _faaDhil_ and _fuDhuul_. Both _faaltuu_ and _fuDhuul_ can mean useless (_bekaar_), but we use _faaltuu_ in Urdu to also mean <spare / extra> = _faaDhil_.



omlick said:


> But what is te etymology of फ़टाफ़ट?


 I wondered about this (फटा फट فٹا فٹ_faTaa faT_) too as we use it now in Urdu as well. 

 My feeling about this is the same what you seem to be saying below. I mean, it sounds like an _onomatopoetic_ word - what we call in Urdu _ism-e-Saut_ اسم صوت = the noun of sound; e.g. پھڑپھڑنا_ phaR phaRaanaa_ ,  كھٹ كھٹانا_ k-hat k-hataanaa _(originally from Sanskrit)_._

 From what I gather, it is of unknown etymology but supposedly from one of the local dialects of (northern?) India. 



omlick said:


> H پهٿफट _pha__ṭ_ [S. स्फट्], Crack, sound of a slap or thump, &c.:—_pha__ṭ__-pha__ṭ_, s.f.=_pha__ṭ_; (also) the creaking sound of a shoe, &c.:—_pha__ṭ__-kār_, s.m. Sound of a thump, or of the cracking of a whip, &c., or of the beating of wet clothes against
> 
> I wonder if PhaTaaPhaT is a slang term deriving from the above. Sort of like in English when we say "get cracking."



I’ve heard some people say this. Again, it seems that these words are just _onomatopoetic._ 

 In fact, پهٿफट _pha__T_ , now that you mention it, reminds me of  پھٹپھٹی_   phaTphaTii_ = motorcycle – that is how we call it in Urdu and this too is an _onomatopoetic_ word.  
 


omlick said:


> nashe me.n chuur is when you are flat out on the floor drunk.


 
.. . and there is also _thakan se *chuur* ho jaanaa / thak ke *chuur* ho jaanaa _= to become very / dead tired = _badan *chuur chuur* ho jaanaa._


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## panjabigator

> This seems like a really good idea, PG!. Must try it next time!



Just a clarification: it works really well but be prepared for an absolutely YUCK experience when drinking.  It has the consistency of grit and if you don't down it quickly, your sieve like teeth will catch, only stretching out the experience.  But seriously, it works amazingly well and costs less than 30 rupees for a bottle.  Opt for capsules if they have them (or mix into smoothies like I do...works well)!

That's what I meant by saying I'd sooner drink muddy water...


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## akak

This conversation reminds me of the iconic Bombay churan pills, called, appropriately, Fatafat


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## Birdcall

So none of you guys know the word mazaa-maarii?

There's a word meaning "free," a synonym of muft, sounds like "fokat." How is this word spelled in Devanagari?


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## panjabigator

फोकट.  Love that word.


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## akak

were you asking about मुफ़त ?
It seems like an alternative, exaggerated pronunciation of मुफ़्त 

That reminds me of another related phrase, sounds like खाली-पीली -- often used the same way as फोकट



Birdcall said:


> So none of you guys know the word mazaa-maarii?
> 
> There's a word meaning "free," a synonym of muft, sounds like "fokat." How is this word spelled in Devanagari?


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## panjabigator

akak said:


> This conversation reminds me of the iconic Bombay churan pills, called, appropriately, Fatafat



Do they taste like Hazmola or Pachnol?  I have thing for digestive tablets!


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## akak

Closer to the tamarind Hazmola... I don't remember the taste of Pachnol. They are a slightly soft, sweet-sour and tangy, the don't have the sharp edge of hazmola. Quite addictive!


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## Cilquiestsuens

Subhash Kumar said:


> Bindaas has been derived from Marathi word Bindhaast बिनधास्त which in Marathi is occassionally also pronounced without the last "t" i.e. like Bindhaas.
> Bin means without and dhaast comes from dhaasti धास्ती means fear in Marathi. So Bindhaast means one who does not have any fear.
> The word has not relation with daas (slave).


 

Let me take a guess here... *dhaasti धास्ती *as you mention above seems to me to be a desi-ization of an Urdu (in this case FARSI word): *dahshat* (=terror). Can you confirm this fact ???? Is there any sanscrit root to this word???

As for the *jaasti *mentioned above, no doubt it is another Urdu word : *Zyaadti *(=excess, too much), which even in Punjab is pronounced as jaastii by some.


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## Subhash Kumar

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Let me take a guess here... *dhaasti धास्ती *as you mention above seems to me to be a desi-ization of an Urdu (in this case FARSI word): *dahshat* (=terror). Can you confirm this fact ???? Is there any sanscrit root to this word???


As far as I know, there is no Sanskrit root to this word. So it is likely that this word was derived from Farsi Dahshat (perhaps centuries ago). By the way, in Marathi, the word Dahshat itself is the most commonly used word for Terror.



Cilquiestsuens said:


> As for the *jaasti *mentioned above, no doubt it is another Urdu word : *Zyaadti *(=excess, too much), which even in Punjab is pronounced as jaastii by some.


I think it is more likely derived from another Urdu word Zyaadaa (=more). More often, the word Jasta जास्त is used to mean more. In fact, in formal writing the word Jasta जास्त only is used and Jastii जास्ती is rarely used in formal written language.


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