# inek+ ipekli don = inek



## rupertbrooke

In the poem by Nazim Hikmet Excerpt from the Giaconda's diary Part One, entry for 20 Nisan he writes:-
20 mart
hayranım felemenk ressamlarına:
süt ve sucuk tacirlerinin
tombul madamlarına
kolay mı üryan bir ilahe edası vermek?
lakin
isterse ipekli don giyinsin
inek+ ipekli don = inek.
I know what it means but how would a Turk read 'inek+ ipekli don = inek ?' 'Inek artı ipekli eşittir'? I love his poems. I have a translation but also most of the Turkish originals. He deserves to be more widely known. Turkish poetry is virtually unknown here in the UK.


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## Rallino

Hello, Rupert 


> I know what it means but how would a Turk read 'inek+ ipekli don = inek ?' 'Inek artı ipekli eşittir'?


I would read it as _inek artı ipekli don eşittir inek_.


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## rupertbrooke

Thanks very much, Rallino. Sorry I've not answered earlier but my emails were apparently held up & have only just started coming in. Often in English we say 'one and one makes two': hence by transference I read 'inek + ipekli don =  inek' as 'inek ve ipekli don yapar inek'.


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## Rallino

In Turkish, too, we'd say: _*1, 1 daha, 2 eder*_, in spoken language. (We wouldn't say: _1, 1 daha, yapar iki_, normally, though).
But the default way is _X *artı* Y *eşittir *Z_.

And you should indeed read it the default way in this poetry, because the poet made it rhyme that way:

20 mart
hayranım felemenk ress*amlarına*:
süt ve sucuk tacirlerin*in*
tombul mad*amlarına*
kolay mı üryan bir ilahe edası verm*ek*?
lak*in*
isterse ipekli don giyins*in*
inek+ ipekli don = in*ek*.


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## rupertbrooke

I'm really enjoying Nazım Hikmet's poetry. But I am never satisfied with merely reading a translation, however good. So I've found a site with many of the poems in the original Turkish. As I learn to cope with the spoken language, I can easily be side-tracked by good literature in the 'target' language. On the subject of translation, Robert Frost once wrote:- "poetry is what gets lost in translation.” Thanks for the notes on Turkish rhyme in Nazım's poetry.


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## spiraxo

Hi rupertbrooke,

A verse line written as an equation leaves us no other choice but to read as Rallino suggested.


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## rupertbrooke

Would minus be eksi (but in English schools teachers often say to children of primary school age instead of 'minus' 'take away')? And would you read for 10,10 eder 20 'on virgül on eder yirmi'? Thanks, spiraxo, for the additional note.


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## Rallino

Yes_.
_+ → artı
- → eksi
x → çarpı
÷ → bölü



> And would you read for 10,10 eder 20 'on virgül on eder yirmi'


This doesn't make sense to me, grammatically or linguistically.  10,10 = 20 (??)

10 + 10 = 20 can be said as:
_on artı on eşittir yirmi
on, on daha, yirmi yapar/eder
on, on daha, etti yirmi.

_


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## rupertbrooke

You said above "In Turkish, too, we'd say: 1, 1 daha, 2 eder, in spoken language. (We wouldn't say: 1, 1 daha, yapar iki, normally, though)." So I tried (unsuccessfully!) to do another sum in Turkish. Put it this way, if one writes '10, 10 daha  20 eder' the comma is merely a punctuation mark & therefore unpronounced. But, say, if a comma were to be written on a doctor's prescription e.g. 2,5 mg [in the UK we write 2.5 mg & pronounce it 'two point five'--I'm guessing it is written 2,5 in Turkey], you would pronounce it 'iki virgül beş'. I may seem to be making a meal of this query but simple things to a native Turk can be daunting to a relative novice in the language. All because of a line of poetry by merhum Nakım (nur içinde yatsın). But I'm a quick learner, I hope.....


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## Rallino

Ah, right. I'm not actually a hundred percent sure if comma is the right choice of punctuation in "10, 10 daha 20 eder"  -- I don't think I've ever _*written *_this expression or seen it written in a book like that. 



> And would you read for 10,10 eder 20 'on virgül on eder yirmi'


By the way, what you forgot to put here was the word _daha_ after the second 10. 


2,5 is _iki virgül beş_, indeed.  Some people also say: _iki onda beş_. And in elementary, it is taught as: _iki tam onda beş_, though no one really says it that way.


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## rupertbrooke

At last I have got it! And I appreciate the poem's metre and rhyme even more.....hep aynı yere geliyoruz	 or whatever the Turkish is for 'the wheel comes full circle'.


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## Esoppe

rupertbrooke said:


> written on a doctor's prescription e.g. 2,5 mg [in the UK we write 2.5 mg & pronounce it 'two point five'--I'm guessing it is written 2,5 in Turkey], you would pronounce it 'iki virgül beş'.



I, and some other people I know, read (and sometimes write) that as "iki nokta beş". Although the Turkish standard is commas, in academic environments (and other places where English is used a lot), periods are used in their place occasionally.


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