# The –ski ending (Slavic) and –ish/-isch/-sk ending (Germanic)



## Ben Jamin

I have been wondering if the –ski ending (Slavic) and –ish/-isch/-isk ending (Germanic) are cognates developed from a common PIE root or a loan (presumably from Germanic to Slavic).


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## Perseas

If they have developed from a common PIE root, I can add the Greek *-ικός*, masc. /-*ική*, fem. /-*ικό(ν)*, neut.


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## Ironicus

Of course! And Sanskrit -ik (with augmentation of the preceding vowel, e.g. Veda -> veidik) too.


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## Outsider

And Latin *-icus *along with its Romance and English (-*ic*, via French -*ique*) cognates.


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## Ben Jamin

There is no 's' in the Greek -ικος or Latin -icus. There are however words that have apparently the ending-iscus in Latin, but I am not sure whether the 's' here belongs to the suffix or the stem, or is an infix.


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## berndf

Ben Jamin said:


> There is no 's' in the Greek -ικος or Latin -icus.


You are right. None of the proposed cognates by Perseas, Ironicus and Outsider are correct. The cognate suffix to Greek _-ικ-_ and Latin _-ic-_ is _-ig_ in German and _-y_ in English (< OE _-iġ_). According to Grimm's law, the expected Germanic reflex of -ik is -ih with allophonic realization -iç. This corresponds to the modern German pronunciation and the Old English ġ is a voiced ç.

But German _-isch_, English _-ish_ has a Greek cognate: The diminutive suffix _-ισκος_.


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## Ben Jamin

berndf said:


> You are right. None of the proposed cognates by Perseas, Ironicus and Outsider are correct. The cognate suffix to Greek _-ικ-_ and Latin _-ic-_ is _-ig_ in German and _-y_ in English (< OE _-iġ_). According to Grimm's law, the expected Germanic reflex of -ik is -ih with allophonic realization -iç. This corresponds to the modern German pronunciation and the Old English ġ is a voiced ç.
> 
> But German _-isch_, English _-ish_ has a Greek cognate: The diminutive suffix _-ισκος_.


Thank you! Then the Latin -iscus must also be a cognate, or a Greek loan. But what about the Slavic -ski which has been used predominantly to form adjectives from proper nouns (but not only). A cognate or a loan?


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## berndf

Ben Jamin said:


> Thank you! Then the Latin -iscus must also be a cognate, or a Greek loan.


According to this a blend of the Greek and the Germanic suffix.


Ben Jamin said:


> But what about the Slavic -ski which has been used predominantly to form adjectives from proper nouns (but not only). A cognate or a loan?


I haven't yet found anything about this.


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## Ben Jamin

berndf said:


> According to this a blend of the Greek and the Germanic suffix.


I suppose that Germanic influence on Latin didn't begin before the III century AC, so the suffix couldn't exist in Classical Latin.


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## origumi

> *-ic* - adjective suffix, "having to do with, having the nature of, being, made of, caused by, similar to" (in chemistry, indicating a higher valence than names in -ous), from Fr. -ique and directly from L. -icus, which in many cases represents Gk. -ikos "in the manner of; pertaining to." From PIE *-(i)ko, which also yielded Slavic -isku, adjectival suffix indicating origin, the source of the -sky (Rus. -skii) in many surnames.


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=-ic


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## Ben Jamin

origumi said:


> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=-ic



Do you know how the 's' came in?


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## Perseas

According to Babiniotis' dictionary _-ικος,-ή,-ό_ is a derivational suffix of Anc. and Mod. Greek, which comes from I.E suffix *-ko-, plus vowel -i- (hence *i-ko-) from stems ending in -i-. Also, _-ικός-_ passed as suffix in foreign languages, cf. Engish -ic(eg. fanat-ic), French _-ique_ (eg. prat-ique), German _-isch _(eg. stürm-isch).


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## Ben Jamin

Perseas said:


> According to Babiniotis' dictionary _-ικος,-ή,-ό_ is a derivational suffix of Anc. and Mod. Greek, which comes from I.E suffix *-ko-, plus vowel -i- (hence *i-ko-) from stems ending in -i-. Also, _-ικός-_ passed as suffix in foreign languages, cf. Engish -ic(eg. fanat-ic), French _-ique_ (eg. prat-ique), German _-isch _(eg. stürm-isch).



According to the link supplied by Berndf the suffix in germanic languages (-ish, -isch, -(i)sk) originated from old Germanic  ‘iskaz’.


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## Perseas

Ben Jamin said:


> According to the link supplied by Berndf the suffix in germanic languages (-ish, -isch, -(i)sk) originated from old Germanic  ‘iskaz’.


I just supplied a different version by another linguistic source. I think I ought to do so.


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## Ben Jamin

Perseas said:


> I just supplied a different version by another linguistic source. I think I ought to do so.



Which one do you find more convincing?


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## francisgranada

-ικός > -ic > -isch does not convince me, because the mentionned German ending was once pronounced -isk in all the Germanic languages (and still in Swedish, for example).


The Slavic -ski seems to come from a former -iskъ, at least at the first glance, because it palatalizes the previous consonant. E.g.: 

 Praga > ..... prag+iskъ > ..... pragьskъ > ..... pražský (in Czech)
Čechъ > ....  čechьskъ > ..... češský >  .... český (in Czech)
Grěkъ >  .... grěkьskъ > ..... grěčskъ  (hence grěčeskij in Russian) ....

also bogъ ... božský, drugъ ... družský etc.


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## berndf

francisgranada said:


> _-ικός_ > -ic > -isch does not convince me, because the mentionned German ending was once pronounced -isk in all the Germanic languages (and still in Swedish, for example).


I agree. Plus it ignores that _-ic_ has a different Germanic cognate, as I wrote in #6. See _-y (2)_ here.

I also find it interesting that Babiniotis considers Latin _-ic- _as a loan from Greek _-ικ-_ rather than as a cognate. We find the two suffixes _-ισκος_ and _-ικος_ Greek. If _-ικος _is derived from PIE _*-ko-_ as Babiniotis states than _-ικος_ and _-ισκος_ might well have the same eventual origin as PIE _*-ko-_ is also a diminutive suffix. The idea that Greek _-ισκος, _Proto-Slavic_*__-iskъ_ and Proto-Germanic _*-iskaz_ should be direct cognates seems highly plausible to me. Could the /s/ be a kind of palatalization effect between /i/ and /k/?


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## francisgranada

berndf said:


> ... The idea that Greek _-ισκος, _Proto-Slavic_*__-iskъ_ and Proto-Germanic _*-iskaz_ should be direct cognates seems highly plausible to me. Could the /s/ be a kind of palatalization effect between /i/ and /k/?


Also to me. As to the palatalization between  /i/ and /k/, I could also imagin that *-isko is a compound suffix, "something" plus -ko ... 

For curiosity, in the Slavic languages there is also an augmentative suffix _-isko_, though I don't know if present in all the Slavic languages.


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