# Haven't we been over this before?



## Elcaracol

HI!

Haven't we been over this before?

is pronunciated by a superhero entering in a house (after crashing the door) and knocking every enemy.

Maybe:

"Ci siamo mai incontrati prima?"

Thank you in advance!


----------



## elfa

"over" indicherebbe _abbiamo mai fatto questo prima?_

Cioè il supereroe ha già sfondato la porta e investito tutti i nemici in questa casa in un'occasione precedente - o almeno ha fatto quello che doveva fare in questa casa.


----------



## kajitox

Secondo me, questa frase è quasi sempre usato con le spiegazioni, e non con le situazione fisiche.

Per esempio:

Una ragazza chiede per la seconda volta alla mamma, "comprerei una macchina per me per il compleanno" e la mamma responde "Haven't we been over this before? No!" (come: "Abbiamo già parlato di questo, no!")

Con una situazione fisica, dico: "Haven't we been here before?" oppure "Does this (situation) look familiar to anyone?"


----------



## Elcaracol

Ok.
Sfondare la porta no, ma prendere a cazzotti i nemici sì. L'aveva già fatto.
Dunque?
"Non vi pare un deja-vu?"?
Che dite?


----------



## empusa

Oppure: "Non ci siamo già passati?". No?


----------



## elfa

empusa said:


> Oppure: "Non ci siamo già passati?".


----------



## Elcaracol

Mi pare un po' ambigua quest'ultima soluzione.
Non porta a chiedersi "passati in che senso?".
Forse l'uso non è lo stesso in tutte le parti d'Italia???


----------



## empusa

Ma no,dai, non credo sia un regionalismo!
"Esserci già passato" vuol dire "aver già fatto qualcosa", "averlo già esperito".
Regionalismo?no...


----------



## Elcaracol

Non intendevo regionalismo, ma un modo non usato tanto in tutte le parti d'Italia...

Appena fatto un test e la reazione è stata uguale alla mia: "Passati dove?" e un attimo dopo la comprensione...

Vorrei evitare ciò...

Mi pare che il deja-vu risolva.

O anche: "Vi ricorda qualcosa?", sulla stessa scia.


----------



## elfa

Elcaracol said:


> Mi pare che il deja-vu risolva.
> 
> O anche: "Vi ricorda qualcosa?", sulla stessa scia.



Scusami Elcaracol, ma il senso della frase non è nessuno di questi due. 

Pure in inglese il senso di "over" è un po' ambiguo - potrebbe essere nel senso che il supereroe ci sia passato fisicamente (c'è stato in un'occasione precedente) o nel senso che abbia già esperito quella sfondamento della porta o altro che non sappiamo. Secondo me, "passati" capta quel senso dell'ambiguità.


----------



## kajitox

Elfa, there might be a different between BE and AE here... is it common to use "haven't we been over this before?" to reply to a familiar situation? In AE it would be rather odd, since the verb phrase "to go over" something is always used in the context of talking about something, explaining something, teaching something... never about being in a certain situation. Maybe I just haven't heard this phrase in AE, but it sounds very strange for a superhero to crash through the walls to find the villains and say "Haven't we been over this before?" to mean "Haven't I seen you guys in this position before?"

In fact, now that I spell it out like that, when he says "Haven't we been over this before?" it seems to me that he might be saying something like "Haven't I told you guys you're not allowed to meet in groups?" or "Haven't I told you that one day I would come busting in to your hideout to find you all?" 

Whatever the case, it certainly doesn't say (to me) "Haven't I found you guys in this situation before?"


----------



## elfa

I agree completely that it's an odd use of the phrase, and possibly more context would help. I thought of it in this definition: "to examine or review" as in "go over tests" etc.

Therefore I would interpret it thus as both:
_
Haven't we come busting in here before? _and_
Haven't we visited/been here before?_

That's why I thought "passare" might fit the bill.

But only Elcaracol can tell us if this is what the meaning of the original sentence is.


----------



## tranquilspaces

I am also wondering if there might be a BE/AE nuance difference here. 

To me, the phrase "haven't we been over this before" definitely sounds like, "Are you guys still unclear about how this works? Seriously, do I have to explain it to you AGAIN??"

It's a phrase I would expect to hear from an impatient teacher or parent. 

"Passato" is probably the best translation, so I'm not disagreeing with that, just clarifying that I interpret the meaning slightly different from Elfa. I suspect it might be a subtle regional nuance since all the AE speakers seem to interpreting it the exact same way in this particular context.


----------



## kajitox

tranquilspaces said:


> "Passato" is probably the best translation, so I'm not disagreeing with that, just clarifying that I interpret the meaning slightly different from Elfa. I suspect it might be a subtle regional nuance since all the AE speakers seem to interpreting it the exact same way in this particular context.



I thought in Elfa's last post he seemed to clarify that that's not the correct interpretation also in BE, but that it was his attempt at translating it. Correct me if I'm wrong!


----------



## tranquilspaces

kajitox said:


> I thought in Elfa's last post he seemed to clarify that that's not the correct interpretation also in BE, but that it was his attempt at translating it. Correct me if I'm wrong!



Elfa was saying that she interpreted the phrase according to a different meaning of "go over" (one we also use frequently, e.g. "do you want to go over this material one more time before the test"?) I was just saying that this definition did not come to mind for me in this context, and did not seem to come to mind for the other Americans on the thread. Could just be a personal feeling about the words, not regional - who knows!


----------



## Elcaracol

tranquilspaces said:


> I am also wondering if there might be a BE/AE nuance difference here.
> 
> To me, the phrase "haven't we been over this before" definitely sounds like, "Are you guys still unclear about how this works? Seriously, do I have to explain it to you AGAIN??"
> 
> It's a phrase I would expect to hear from an impatient teacher or parent.
> 
> "Passato" is probably the best translation, so I'm not disagreeing with that, just clarifying that I interpret the meaning slightly different from Elfa. I suspect it might be a subtle regional nuance since all the AE speakers seem to interpreting it the exact same way in this particular context.


Interesting!

The context is only:
1) the superhero finds out the enemies and he punches them!
2) the enemies escape
3) the superhero finds them out again
4) he crashes the door with his fists and, with the same fists, in the same action, he knocks the enemies
5) he says "Haven't we been over this before?"

NOTE!!!!!!!
It's an old comic book (1940). Maybe it influences the language!!!


----------



## johngiovanni

I would just use the French phrase which I believe is what is used in Italian as well as in English.  For interest, see this discussion: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1247441


----------



## tranquilspaces

Okay, well then now I'm convinced this is regional thing. To me, having a feeling of déjà vu is *not* the same to me as telling someone "haven't we been over this before?"

Is it an American comic book or a British comic book?


----------



## Elcaracol

American!!!


----------



## kajitox

tranquilspaces said:


> Okay, well then now I'm convinced this is regional thing. To me, having a feeling of déjà vu is *not* the same to me as telling someone "haven't we been over this before?"
> 
> Is it an American comic book or a British comic book?



I completely agree. These are two different things. Was it originally written in English? I think this could be an important thing to know!


----------



## johngiovanni

The point of the question "Ci siamo mai incontrati prima?" is that the person saying it knows that the answer is "yes". It is humorous. The French phrase in psychology might mean "I have a feeling we've been here before, in this situation before, but I don't know the exact circumstances of the previous encounter", but in this case the speaker knows the exact circumstances of the previous encounter. That's why I would keep the French phrase, because of the humour.


----------



## tranquilspaces

John, you and Elfa are seeing this in sort of a similar way, but all the Americans are seeing it a different way. That's why I think we need to know the country of origin of the comic book to really understand the meaning... 

Personally, I would never translate "Haven't we been over this before?" as "ci siamo mai incontrati prima." Completely different in my mind.


----------



## johngiovanni

Sorry, I don't agree that the Americans are seeing it a different way.  There may be countless ways of translating the words, but the bottom line is the speaker is asking a question to which he knows the answer.  "Oh no, you guys still haven't learned, have you?  You must be stupid. Ok, I've got to go through this again."


----------



## tranquilspaces

Just because the speaker is asking a question to which he knows the answer doesn't mean the content of the question is irrelevant from a translation perspective... The fact remains that "You still haven't learned, have you?" is a completely different question than "Haven't we met before?"


----------



## johngiovanni

OK - I think I cannot add much more to this thread, except perhaps to refer you to a previous thread about the expression "go over."
Vedi: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=220084
It may help to find a translation that you like.


----------



## kajitox

tranquilspaces said:


> Just because the speaker is asking a question to which he knows the answer doesn't mean the content of the question is irrelevant from a translation perspective... The fact remains that "You still haven't learned, have you?" is a completely different question than "Haven't we met before?"



I really like that first one as a good translation of it... my point is definitely not that there exists a difference in interpretations between BE and AE, but simply that I think its usage in this context is not usually (ever) how the phrase is used. Hence why I asked if it was translated to English from another language.


----------



## Yulan

Hi Elcaracol 

I think you could simply say: "Non avevamo già risolto la questione?"

Ciao


----------



## tranquilspaces

Yulan said:


> Hi Elcaracol
> 
> I think you could simply say: "Non avevamo già risolto la questione?"
> 
> Ciao



Mi piace!


----------



## Yulan

GrazieTranquilspaces!


----------



## Elcaracol

Yulan said:


> Hi Elcaracol
> 
> I think you could simply say: "Non avevamo già risolto la questione?"
> 
> Ciao



Anche a me. WOW!!!
I think this is the better one.

What do you think about?


----------



## kajitox

Boh, a me sembra diverso, ma forse perché la traduzione letterale ha un diverso senso in inglese? :\


----------

