# Greek in Persian script: دماديادا ايذا بيتا مين ديس ايذن



## greekpalm

Hi everyone (salam)

i found this poem of Walad (son of Rumi)  where he writes in 12th century Cappadocian Greek dialect.
Now the thing is i would want to have this text in Latin letters, and if possible to write the text again in Persian script too if thats possible.





The idea is to write this text again in proper cappadocian greek (and greek alphabet).

Any help would be great.

thank you

*Moderator's note: Moved (and bumped) from the All languages forum.*


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## eskandar

This is in the Persian script, but not the Persian language - it is Ottoman Turkish.


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## greekpalm

eskandar said:


> This is in the Persian script, but not the Persian language - it is Ottoman Turkish.



yes it is written in persian script but its not ottoman turkish but 12th century cappadocian greek.

the thing is, can you just write it in latin alphabet? ( as for example αλφαβητο = alfabeto )


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## eskandar

Ah sorry, I didn't pay proper attention to your post. It looked like Ottoman Turkish to me. However without knowing the language, it's impossible to transcribe it in the Latin alphabet, since the Perso-Arabic script is not an alphabet but an abjad, where the short vowels are unwritten. Therefore, there are many different possible ways to read what is written here, and without knowing Cappadocian Greek, there is no way we could accurately guess the vowels and convert it to the Latin script.


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## fdb

Could you tell us where you found this poem?


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## greekpalm

yes but still, we know that it was written by a native persian (walid, son of rumi the poet), can't we interpret (or make an educated guess ) what the vowels might be with that in mind ?


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## greekpalm

ghazal 504 of Rabab-Nama written by Baha al-Din Muhammad-i Walad


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## fdb

Thanks. Several attempts at transcribing and translating the poem are reprinted here:

http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/Play/rumiwalad.html


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## greekpalm

i know that one, but i still would want to have a latin (as much as possible) equivalent of the persian script.


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## greekpalm

i asked a long long time ago someone to write the following in latin script 


he translated is as follow : Mits aios poos zekasei lalesi

the greek coresponding (as mentioned on the site) whould be: me tous agious pos δikase lalese

unfortunately i lost contact with that person so im kinda lost now in finding a way to getting it to latin script


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## Kahaani

_dma dia da aiza* bita minn ds aizn* dishsio akapsbi kisn pali ir fagho astn iothso abkigho kh ko no no tz kria akoii* kh thori aikho ia kiyn di iana vld jnsn pasn aztroii azi kmati

Note: aiza, the first a could possible just be written to denote that the i is indeed a vowel and not a y. I.e. Iza. However the word could also be read as Ayiza. 
Note: same applies with aizn and many other words which start with an a and are followed by a vowel. 
Note: Wherever the vowels has been omitted there aren't any written. It is impossible to make an 'educated guess' because without knowledge of the Greek language any guess would be equally valid. 
Note: Akoii, could be read as akoyi/akoyiyi/akoyaya/akoyoyo etc. The I can be read as a y or ii, and the V as a w or o, as it is the case in Latin. When the letters are read as consonants any vowels can be imagined between them because there is no denotion them. 
Note: Wherever there's an i or o written it could also possibly be an y or w with any possible vowel inbetween.


This is just the right part (Arabic/Persian script is written from right to left). I hope you realize that it is almost impossible to correctly transliterate it without knowledge of the Greek language. You could try to make sense of these words by guessing what vowels should be put inbetween them. 

Edit: In the sample your provided your contact it was indeed possible to transliterate it correctly because the vowels were denoted. See the tiny marks under and above words that are missing in the poem? Those are the vowels. It might seem strange that one would not write vowels but it is actually fairly common and not that strange if you think about it. Y cn stll rd ths vn thgh (I) ddnt wrt n(y) vwls, s wht's th nd?_


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## greekpalm

Kahaani said:


> _dma dia da aiza* bita minn ds aizn* dishsio akapsbi kisn pali ir fagho astn iothso abkigho kh ko no no tz kria akoii* kh thori aikho ia kiyn di iana vld jnsn pasn aztroii azi kmati
> 
> Note: aiza, the first a could possible just be written to denote that the i is indeed a vowel and not a y. I.e. Iza. However the word could also be read as Ayiza.
> Note: same applies with aizn and many other words which start with an a and are followed by a vowel.
> Note: Wherever the vowels has been omitted there aren't any written. It is impossible to make an 'educated guess' because without knowledge of the Greek language any guess would be equally valid.
> Note: Akoii, could be read as akoyi/akoyiyi/akoyaya/akoyoyo etc. The I can be read as a y or ii, and the V as a w or o, as it is the case in Latin. When the letters are read as consonants any vowels can be imagined between them because there is no denotion them.
> Note: Wherever there's an i or o written it could also possibly be an y or w with any possible vowel inbetween.
> 
> 
> This is just the right part (Arabic/Persian script is written from right to left). I hope you realize that it is almost impossible to correctly transliterate it without knowledge of the Greek language. You could try to make sense of these words by guessing what vowels should be put inbetween them.
> 
> Edit: In the sample your provided your contact it was indeed possible to transliterate it correctly because the vowels were denoted. See the tiny marks under and above words that are missing in the poem? Those are the vowels. It might seem strange that one would not write vowels but it is actually fairly common and not that strange if you think about it. Y cn stll rd ths vn thgh (I) ddnt wrt n(y) vwls, s wht's th nd?_



thank you very much !!!!

im aware of it, thanks for reminding me !

_aiza = ειδα = iδa
aizn = ειδεν = iδen
akoii = ακουγε = akouye
vld = βαλεντ = valed (Walad)

and btw from what i understand you only wrote the right column, could you please also do the left one? ( the text is not made out of 2 columns but just 5 lines with a big space in between each line)

in the meantime i'll write (in latin) what the text sounds like in greek

__dma dia da aiza bita minn ds aizn = ta matia ta iδa meta sen tis iδen
__dishsio akapsbi kisn pali ir fagho = di thea sou ekapse me ke sen pali yirefgo
__astn iothso abkigho kh ko no no tz kria = is ton pothon sou epa kleyo ke konono ta δakria
__akoii* kh thori aikho ia kiyn di iana = akouye ke thori eyo yia kinin ti patha
__vld jnsn pasn aztroii azi kmati = Valed χani sen yia sen ouδi troyi ouδi kimate

and maybe a last request, if its possible to write the text again in persian script ? (so i can edit it, or be able to paste it into a text file )

thank you again for you help_


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## Kahaani

_The left part:
iosn klo chki astnkz mn ts aizn iibanan iasn kh kns nito nghzn fonazo kh lalo simbtn bli nh artn afrizi kh lali tto tthia ma nmi tn aigho tthlo iinn klnis nmi ittn 

Please not that your translation might not be entirely accurate since you changed some consonants. The consonants are denoted and in that sense true. 

I will try and write out the Persian text later, although it'd be helpful if someone else could contribute to this since I'm not particularly experienced in typing in the Persian script! 



_


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## fdb

To Kahani:

What you call the “right part” and the “left part” are the first and second مصراع of each بيت . You need to read each line all the way from right to left; you do not read down the columns.


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## cherine

Dear all,

The thread is not really within the scope of the forum. But we can keep it as an entertaining/interesting exercise. To do so, we need to keep within the forum rules as much as possible, especially the 4-lines-limit rule and the standard writing style rule.

Thank you,
Cherine
Moderator


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## thelastchoice

fdb said:


> To Kahani:
> 
> What you call the “right part” and the “left part” are the first and second مصراع of each بيت . You need to read each line all the way from right to left; you do not read down the columns.


Actually, the right part is called صدر Sadr and the left is called عجز Ajz.


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## thelastchoice

This my trial for the first two verses:

Dma dya da eetha beeta meenin dis eethin
Yusin klochki istinkzimin eethen
Ditheeso agapsimi keesin pali yerfago
Ijanin yasin ké kins neeto nimfizin
 Below is the Greek text from the above link:
Τα μάτια τα είδα μετά σεν τις είδεν;
γοιο σεν, καλούτσικη, εις τον κόσμον τις είδεν;
[ντ] η θέα σου έκαψέ με και σεν πάλι γυρεύγω
εχάθηκα για σεν και κανείς να ήτο να με βρην.


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## Kahaani

fdb said:


> To Kahani:
> 
> What you call the “right part” and the “left part” are the first and second مصراع of each بيت . You need to read each line all the way from right to left; you do not read down the columns.



Oh nemidoonestam mersi agha!


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## sotos

Kahaani said:


> _The left part:
> iosn klo chki astnkz mn ts aizn iibanan iasn kh kns nito nghzn *fonazo kh lalo *simbtn bli nh artn *afrizi kh lali* tto tthia ma nmi tn aigho tthlo iinn klnis nmi ittn
> _


... φωνάζω και λαλώ ...  αφρίζει και λαλεί ...

see Dedes (1993) here: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/Play/rumiwalad.html


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