# but we are of the stars



## aevans

Hi all,

I posted back in February, and got some helpful advice.  Since then, I've made a slight modification to the phrase in question.

I'm looking to translate the phrase "but (yet) we are of the stars" to Latin.  Other interpretations could be "we are simply stardust", or "we are only of the stars".  (I'm staying away from star_dust_ because I don't like the sound of pulvus for some silly reason!)

Ideally, the translated phrase would flow well, perhaps somewhat poetically.  

For context, I'm alluding to the (humbling) idea that no matter what befalls us, we are all made of the same elemental matter that makes up the stars, and will one day go back to that same source. This phrase is often brought up for perspective after a heady discussion, and preceded with a "but" or "yet".  i.e. "...but anyway, we are all just stardust".

Any suggestions?  

Perhaps "sumus simplicis sidereus", or something like that?

Many thanks to all for their help!
Adam


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

I don't really understand your latin sentence ; do you wish to write : 
" Sumus simpliciter siderei" ?  "simplicis" is the genitive of the adjective "simplex" and "sidereus" has to agree with the plural subject ( sumus ).

I'd suggest this phrasing : " (At tamen ) nihil nisi stellarum fragmenta (or : partes ) sumus".


----------



## aevans

My apologies for the butchering of Latin grammar!  I really appreciate your help.

_>  "Sumus simpliciter siderei"
__> "(At tamen ) nihil nisi stellarum fragmenta (or : partes ) sumus"
_
Both of your suggestions sound wonderful.

Even if it means abbreviating the full thought, I'm trying to keep the phrase as short as possible.  Of the following, which do you think flows best while staying true to the idea?

"sumus simpliciter siderei"
"stellarum fragmenta sumus"

Thanks again for your assistance, it is greatly appreciated!

Adam


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

The first phrase sounds undoubtedly better , even though you change the word order so as not to start the sentence with the verb according to the Latin usage , but the meaning is confusing me. Does'nt the only word "sidereus" refer to something celestial, divine in contradiction with the idea that mankind is made of a simple, elemental matter ? That is why I have added words like "partes" or "fragmenta".

So I'd appreciate more opinions as well.


----------



## Mezzofanti

May I suggest a completely different approach ?

What about "etenim quintae essentiae sumus" ?

Familiarity with the pythagorean doctrine that the stars are made of a "fifth essence" may safely be presumed among Latinists.


----------



## aevans

> What about "etenim quintae essentiae sumus" ?
> 
> Familiarity with the pythagorean doctrine that the stars are made of a "fifth essence" may safely be presumed among Latinists.



Lovely, and definitely poetic.  Somehow I'd like the phrase to remain as close to the literal stars themselves.

I wasn't aware of "etenim" (for indeed?), and think it might work nicely with  J.F.'s suggestion:

_"etenim simpliciter siderei sumus"_

In your learned opinions, would this phrase flow well and come close to my original intent?  Any other comments / suggestions?

Many thanks to all for their help!
Adam


----------



## Mezzofanti

"etenim" is used to introduce a statement that in some way corroborates what has just been said. It wouldn't be appropriate if the sentence "we are of the stars" is intended to be free-standing.  
For the rest, to choose among the options given, can you explain a little more fully the context or the meaning, or the effect you want this statement to produce - in what circumstances you would say it or write it?


----------



## aevans

Mezzofanti and JF and others -- your continued help is much appreciated!

The reason I thought that "etenim" might lead in well is indeed because the phrase/thought is often spoken as a response.

I'm an amateur astronomer, and have always been fascinated by the fact that we are made of the same things that the stars are.  In addition, I have some artwork in my house that includes the phrase "but we are of the stars".  This sentiment is often brought up for perspective after a philosophical discussions.

So I guess one could say that it's a personal phrase, a personal motto.  I will have it tattooed eventually (I have several tattoos, one other is a Latin phrase as well).

Given that it is commonly spoken in response then, would _"etenim simpliciter siderei sumus" _be grammatically correct and stylistically strong?

Thank you again!
Adam


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

I am of the Mezzofanti's opinion ; "Etenim" means "the fact is that", "actually" ; so using it usually implies that you voice your agreement to a previous assertion and want to confirm it by adding an argument or personal views; on the contrary, "Attamen" voices an opposition or makes an objection. But if you consider the previous opinion  common and obvious, stick then to your phrase which is correct and well-built.


----------



## aevans

JF, thanks again for your help.  At the risk of abusing your generosity, I have one more question.

If at all possible, I'd like to find an abbreviated version of this phrase (in terms of number of characters).  Is there a way to replace "simpliciter" with a shorter word (e.g. tantum?) while keeping the meaning intact?  

Thanks again,
Adam


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

Don't worry at all , you are always welcome here. "Tantum" is possible but usually comes with this meaning after the determinated word :
"Etenim siderei tantum sumus"; "solum" is also possible and I think you can put it in wherever you wish.


----------

