# αι = α?



## Apollodorus

αι = α?

I don’t know if these are regionalisms or something else, but can “αι” (/e/) be pronounced as “α” (/a/)?

For example, “λ*α*μός” instead of “λ*αι*μός”.

Also, “ου” (/u/) as “α” (/a/)?

E.g., “κοιμ*ά*μαι” instead of “κοιμ*ού*μαι”.

“O” (/o/) as “ε” (/e/)?

E.g., “ντρ*ε*πιάζω” instead of “ντρ*ο*πιάζω”.


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## Konstantinos

No please, don't perplex your mind. Greek is extremely phonetic language, especially on these aspects.

For example, αι is always pronounced as ε and αϊ as αη.

Believe it or not, an A1 level Greek learner who has English as native language... knows better how to pronounce Greek than English.

Actually, I think only υ is problematic. αυτό is pronounced αητό, αβτό or αφτό? but again it is supposed that there are some rules.


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## velisarius

My daughter's old grammar book from school, printed and distributed in all Greek schools in 1988, was based on Manolis Triandafilidis' _Modern Greek Grammar. _It has:

_θυμ*ού*μαι*
θυμάσαι
θυμάται
θυμ*ού*μαστε
θυμάστε
θυμούνται_

* και _θυμάμαι _

Similarly, the types _κοιμώμαι_ (ancient) and _κοιμούμαι_ exist, but (nearly) everyone uses _κοιμάμαι_. Perhaps the other forms are still used in certain dialects.

Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής

You will also find _λυπάμαι/λυπούμαι, φοβάμαι/φοβούμαι _in modern Greek, but most people use the first.

(Greek is my second language, so I'm happy to be corrected.)


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## Apollodorus

Thanks for your replies.

I am, of course, aware that “αι” is _normally _pronounced the same way as “ε”, i.e., /e/ as English “e” in “kept”, for example.

But I have heard αι-words being pronounced with an /a/, e.g., “λ*α*μός” instead of “λ*αι*μός”. I know that Greek /e/ sometimes can be a bit longer and more open, but this was a clear /a/ sound and it didn’t seem to be a mistake. So, I’m assuming it must be a regional thing. The same probably applies to “ντρ*ε*πιάζω” instead of “ντρ*ο*πιάζω”.

“Kοιμούμαι” seems to be an older form of “κοιμάμαι” given as standard in the Oxford-Greek Dictionary (2007), but described by Babiniotis (2018) as “more rare” (σπανιότ.).

Other examples include words like “αφωρισμένος” which, according to Babiniotis, has the “popular” (λαϊκ.) form “αφωρεσμένος”.

So, it seems that the variation in pronunciation has to do with a particular form being (1) older, (2) regional, or (3) “popular”. I suspect in some cases there may be a connection between the three ....

“υ” is supposed to be pronounced as /f/ before the consonants π, τ, κ, φ, θ, χ, σ, ξ, ψ and as /v/ before a vowel or any other consonant (i.e. β, δ, γ, ζ, λ, ρ, μ, ν). I haven't heard "αητό" for "αυτό", though. Is it regional?


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## Konstantinos

In Athens you don't hear λαμός or ντρεπιάζω. But κοιμούμαι and κοιμάμαι are interchangeable.

As I said Greek is a fully phonetic language.

So κοιμάμαι is always pronounced κοιμάμαι and κοιμούμαι is always pronounced κοιμούμαι.

Κοιμάμαι is never pronounced κοιμούμαι and κοιμούμαι is never pronounced κοιμάμαι.

Whenever you hear a word differently, firstly you have to think that it is also written differently and then anything else.


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## Apollodorus

Well, I agree that Greek is a so-called “phonetic language”, but what I was trying to get at is that some vowels and diphthongs seem to be pronounced differently if not when articulating written words, at least in spoken language.

E.g., the Greek verb "I sleep" sometimes has an "ου" (κοιμ*ού*μαι) and other times an "α" (κοιμ*ά*μαι).

But thanks for the info, anyway.


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## bearded

Apollodorus said:


> diphthongs seem to be pronounced differently ...., at least in spoken language.
> E.g., the Greek verb "I sleep" sometimes has an "ου" (κοιμ*ού*μαι) and other times an "α" (κοιμ*ά*μα


Hi
I don't think that it's a matter of pronunciation.  Kοιμ*ού*μαι corresponds to the older/classical conjugation, and κοιμ*ά*μαi is a more recent/demotic version. Which one Greeks adopt in speaking or writing, is a question of style.


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## Apollodorus

bearded said:


> Hi
> I don't think that it's a matter of pronunciation.  Kοιμ*ού*μαι corresponds to the older/classical conjugation, and κοιμ*ά*μαi is a more recent/demotic version. Which one Greeks adopt in speaking or writing, is a question of style.



Yes, perhaps I should have phrased the question slightly differently.

But you're right, κοιμ*ά*μαι/κοιμ*ού*μαι seem to be derived from Ancient Greek κοιμάω and its mediopassive form κοιμάομαι, the original meaning being "to lie down to sleep".

It’s a bit like Modern Greek με (accusative) and μου (genitive) used for Ancient Greek μοι (dative).

Obviously, not everybody learns Greek from books. A lot, if not most of the time, you learn from listening to native speakers either directly or on radio, TV, and social media.

For example, the learner may hear “τι να *σε *κάνω?” ("regional") instead of “τι να *σου *κάνω?” (“standard”). Without knowing the history behind it, or even the different spelling, he or she hears that “ε" (/e/) is being substituted for “ου" (/u/).

This may give rise to the impression that it’s a “different pronunciation”. Reading a written text tends to be a different matter as the pronunciation rules are pretty clear.

Mind you, even then, if you have a word like "αυτό" you may be inclined to pronounce it "αητό", "αβτό" or "αφτό". Or "εφτά" (with /f/) instead of "επτά" (with /p/), etc.


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## Konstantinos

Yes, as I already said, Greek is a phonetic language. So in Thessaloniki when they say φέρε με να φάω, they write φέρε με να φάω, not φέρε μου να φάω. So your questions should not be about pronunciation, but about spelling.

αυτό may be pronounced αβτό or αφτό. I forgot that αητό should be written αϋτό, not αυτό.

The number 7 is written (and pronounced) both εφτά and επτά. Again, it is not about different pronunciation. It is just different official orthographical spelling. The same about αδερφός and αδελφός.

If English writing system was so phonetic like Greek, the word καιρός should be officially written as weather by Americans and weatha by British.

PS: About the verb to sleep, κοιμούμαι and κοιμάμαι are both in Modern Greek accepted and they both come from Byzantine Greek. In Ancient Greek it was κοιμώμαι.


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## bearded

Konstantinos said:


> In Ancient Greek it was κοιμώμαι.


O yes, my mistake.  Thank you for reminding me.


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## Apollodorus

Konstantinos said:


> If English writing system was so phonetic like Greek, the word καιρός should be officially written as weather by Americans and weatha by British.



Good point! 🙂 But it would probably depend if it’s English, Irish, or Scots English.

Arguably, all spoken languages are “phonetic”. If by “phonetic” you’re referring to the relation between written words and the way they’re pronounced, then yes, perhaps some languages are more “phonetic” than others.

My main concern was with the way words are pronounced, not spelled. After all, writing as a general rule is meant to reflect the way spoken words are pronounced. And a word that has a “standard” written form may be pronounced differently by different groups of speakers and independently of the way it is spelled. Hence my original question as to whether in some words, “α” (/a/) can take the place of “αι” (/e/), for example.

Incidentally, Ancient Greek κοιμῶμαι seems to be a contracted form of κοιμάομαι, where “αο” became “ω” (long “o”), whereas other speakers stressed the “α”, resulting in Byzantine and Modern Greek κοιμάμαι. This is why I thought that the same mechanism might have led to “αι” becoming “α” in some words.


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## Konstantinos

Apollodorus said:


> Arguably, all spoken languages are “phonetic”. If by “phonetic” you’re referring to the relation between written words and the way they’re pronounced, then yes, perhaps some languages are more “phonetic” than others.



Wikipedia: English orthography is highly non-phonemic. 

A phonemic orthography is an orthography (system for writing a language) in which the graphemes (written symbols) correspond to the phonemes (significant spoken sounds) of the language. 

So your question is whether the "αι" is pronounced as "α" in some regions or dialects, in some words. 

The answer is simply no. 
αι is always pronounced as ε
αί is always pronounced as έ
άι is always pronounced as άη
αΐ is always pronounced as αή
αϊ is always pronounced as αη


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## Apollodorus

Eντάξει. Να είσαι καλά!


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