# تعبان / متعب



## xebonyx

Is there much of a difference between these two?
أنا متعب
أنا تعبان

Is the first one "I'm tired" and the second one "I'm worn(out)"? Also, could you use the second for furniture, but not the first one?

شكرا مقدما


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## elroy

There is no difference in meaning.

I would prefer أنا متعب in MSA, because أنا تعبان is what we say in Palestinian Arabic - so it _sounds_ very colloquial to me (especially since we don't use أنا متعب in PA).  However, I believe أنا تعبان is valid in MSA. 

I would only use تعبان for "furniture" in PA (not متعب, because as I said that is not used in PA).  I do not believe that you can use either of the words figuratively in MSA.


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## Taalib

On that point:

What word would you use to denote "worn out" or "decrepit" for inanimate objects like furniture in MSA?  As in, this chair is worn out; or, this carpet is decrepit...


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## cherine

We sometimes use the adjective متهالك mutahaalik, sometimes 3atiiq عتيق which literaly means "very old", but it can also connotes the idea of "worn out" or "decrepit".


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## Nikola

I some colloquials * أنا تعبان*  can be an Idiom for I feel sick.


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## Nunty

elroy said:


> There is no difference in meaning.
> 
> I would prefer أنا متعب in MSA, because أنا تعبان is what we say in Palestinian Arabic - so it _sounds_ very colloquial to me (especially since we don't use أنا متعب in PA).  However, I believe أنا تعبان is valid in MSA.
> 
> I would only use تعبان for "furniture" in PA (not متعب, because as I said that is not used in PA).  I do not believe that you can use either of the words figuratively in MSA.



I'm confused. (Nothing new there...) Elroy, are you saying that I can say أنا تعبانه (hope I got the feminine suffix right) and also 'this chair is تعبان" in PA?

Thanks


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## elroy

Yes - calling the chair تعبان (or تعبانة; it can actually be both in PA, although most people use the feminine) would mean that it's worn out, "falling apart," not exactly in good condition, etc.

The figurative تعبان is used in many other contexts to describe something that is not in satisfactory condition. Language skills come to mind.

إنجليزياتي تعبانين - "My English is tired." - My English is rusty, pathetic, etc.
_(Notice that in this context we use the plural!)_

(You got the suffix right!  )


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## Nunty

Thanks, Elroy. (The plural? Oh help!)


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## elroy

Nun-Translator said:


> (The plural? Oh help!)


 Yes, for some odd reason, we use the plural in PA when we're talking about someone's language skills.

If you were saying "English is hard" or "I'm studying English" you would use the singular - but you would use the plural in sentences like "My English is advanced" or "His English is awful."

I have no idea why we do this.  It's not done in all dialects, and certainly not in MSA.

_(We briefly touched upon this in another thread once, but I don't know if I could easily find it.)_


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## squeezed90

I'm sorry I just don't understand how تعبان could be used for furniture because as far as I'm concerned, it means tired, and I really don't think it can be used to incorporate "worn-out" for furniture. But I'm willing to bet my worn out leather couch if anyone can prove otherwise! 
Thanks


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## elroy

squeezed90 said:


> I'm sorry I just don't understand how تعبان could be used for furniture because as far as I'm concerned, it means tired, and I really don't think it can be used to incorporate "worn-out" for furniture.


 I don't understand why you're so perplexed.

When you're tired, you are "worn out" (figuratively speaking).
When a couch is worn out, in Arabic it is "tired" (figuratively speaking).


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## Nunty

For what it's worth, I have no problem with saying (in AE) "Can't we replace that tired old sofa with a new one?"


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## elroy

Good point.  Come to think of it, I don't either.


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## squeezed90

I am not confused with the meaning of the word. I fully understand what you are trying to imply when you say "the couch is tired" but i don't think you can say that in Arabic. The only way it could possibly be used is a very bad colloquial usage. Could you just tell me the sentence because the one I'm thinking of 
"ﺔﺒﻌﺘﻣ  الأريكة" 
sounds almost funny.


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## elroy

With all due respect, it's not a matter of "what you think."  It _is_ used in Palestinian Arabic, and it's not "bad colloquial usage."  It's perfectly fine colloquial usage.  Maybe it's not used in other dialects, but then again, I never claimed to speak for all dialects. 

An example sentence:
!أي متزت هالكرسي التعبانة وعايفة حالها
(_Ay matzit hal-kursi 't-ta3baane w 3aayfe 7aalha!_)
Come on, just throw out that tired old chair!

عايفة حالها literally means "sick of itself" and is also used figuratively to connote a similar meaning ("worn out," "decrepit," etc.).


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## squeezed90

OH!!!
Im sorry I thought you were talking about like in arabic fos7a! But in your sentence I can totally see it making sense. Im so ashamed  because I'm originally from Palestine too I guess it's just that I haven't heard arabic being spoken for a long time!
Thanks for clearing it up elroy


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## elroy

No problem.  You must have missed this part of my first post:


> I do not believe that you can use either of the words figuratively in MSA.


 Glad to see another Palestinian here!


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## Josh_

EDIT:  I see that while I was typing the issue was cleared up, but as I took so much time preparing this reply I'll just leave it up.
-----

Concerning 'tired' (English usage) I agree that there is no problem with saying "Can't we replace that tired old sofa with a new one?" but I think this usage is used more among the older generation.  I can't say I've heard many younger people use it like that.

Anyway, to the topic at hand.  Arabic is filled with many words like this that have a wide array of meanings and/or usages (literal and figurative), as well as idioms and other language quirks, for lack of a better term, as is English and every other language.  Another I can think of off hand is "il-3agala nayma" (Egyptian Arabic) meaning "the tire is flat" but when translated literally is "the tire is sleeping."  Obviously that makes no sense in English, and is even rather comical.  But it makes sense in Egyptian Arabic.  

So I think the problem here, squeezed90, is that you are translating the word into English and applying your knowledge of the English meaning of the word to the Arabic.  Remember, Arabic is its own language, not a translation of English.  There are words with figurative meaning that are not found in the usual English equivalent and vice versa. This word happens to be one of the words that has a broader usage than just its literal one -- tired. 

Here is a useful exercise to get you thinking about differences in languages:  Think about it in terms of an English idiom translated literally into Arabic. Then ask yourself how a native would view the phrase.  Or better yet, maybe a native can chime in (another odd idiom when translated literally) and tell us what he/she thinks of the phrase in Arabic.

For example:

I'm going to hit the hay (meaning, of course, "I'm going to go to sleep").
Literal Arabic: سأضرب القش

I would venture to say, as far as sleep goes, that this phrase is meaningless in Arabic.


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## elroy

Josh Adkins said:


> I'm going to hit the hay (meaning, of course, "I'm going to go to sleep").
> Literal Arabic: سأضرب القش
> 
> I would venture to say, as far as sleep goes, that this phrase is meaningless in Arabic.


 And you would be right.

By the way, _il3agala nayma_ sounds funny to my Palestinian ears too because we say "il3ajal imbansher" (which, of course, comes from the English "punctured").


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## Nunty

Well, sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but can I say (in Palestinian colloquial) ana ta3baana minnak? And now my attempt to put that into proper letters:  انا تعبانه منك  What I'm trying to say is "I'm tired of you!" (or "of your nonsense" sort of thing.)

Please be kind enough to correct everything I messed up in both the transliteration and the Arabic. Thanks!


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## elroy

No, we do not use it this way.

Your Arabic spelling is perfect, but the pronunciation is "ta3baan*e*" in (standard) Palestinian Arabic.


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## Nunty

Thank you, Elroy. I think I've got it now!


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## Ali Smith

تَعْبان (feminine: تَعْبانَة) did not exist in classical Arabic (الفصحى). That's what Lane's Lexicon says anyway.

The classical word was تَعِب or مُتْعَب.


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