# мне не вернуться в дом родной



## elemika

Здравствуйте,
как бы вы перевели безличное предложение с инфинитивом в роли сказуемого, типа:

Мне не вернуться в дом родной

I will non be able to get home?
I couldn't get home?
I'm not fated to get home?
.....

Спасибо!


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## Sobakus

There's no returning/coming back home for me может быть?


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## LilianaB

Could you provide more context.


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## elemika

Sobakus said:


> There's no returning/coming back home for me может быть?


Может!!! Мне нравится, спасибо.
Правда, дальше не легче...



LilianaB said:


> Could you provide more context.



Закрыты двери предо мной -
Мне не вернуться в дом родной,
Мне не обнять своих детей;
Я пленник шелковых сетей.


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## LilianaB

There is no coming home. You can skip some words, like for me, if they do not fit into the rhyme structure, provided the omission does not change the meaning.


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## elemika

LilianaB said:


> There is no coming home. You can skip some words, like for me, if they do not fit into the rhyme structure, provided the omission does not change the meaning.


Thank you, Liliana.
I'm not looking for the poetic translation here,
 I just have trouble  translating such infinitive constructions :

мне не вернуться - _there is_ no coming;  Sobacus and you gave me the key, thank you both!
but
мне не обнять детей - _there is no way_ to  hug  my children, for me??? Could it work?


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## LilianaB

I am afraid it will not work. Not in this poem. It has to be something more poetic that would convey that meanaing.

I am sorry, Elemika, you are not translating the poem. Sometimes I rush too much and miss the details. This is the meaning of the phrase, but it does not sound too good to me. I cannot hug my children. I will not be able to hug my children.


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## elemika

LilianaB said:


> I am afraid it will not work. Not in this poem. It has to be something more poetic that would convey that meanaing.


Thank you.
I'll work on it...


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## morzh

elemika said:


> Здравствуйте,
> как бы вы перевели безличное предложение с инфинитивом в роли сказуемого, типа:
> 
> Мне не вернуться в дом родной
> 
> I will non be able to get home?
> I couldn't get home?
> I'm not fated to get home?
> .....
> 
> Спасибо!



I won't ever return home.
I won't be ever coming (back) home.


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## Natalisha

elemika said:


> мне не вернуться - _there is_ no coming;  Sobacus and you gave me the key, thank you both!
> but
> мне не обнять детей - _there is no way_ to  hug  my children, for me??? Could it work?


What about "I am doomed to never..."?


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## morzh

Natalisha said:


> What about "I am doomed to never..."?



That is too much. Also if you say "I am doomed to not ever..." it is more like "Мне не суждено".


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## Благо

It depends a bit on the nuance you want to transmit; impersonal constructions:

"There is no way I'm going back home" --> There may (or not) be a way for me to go back home, but I absolutely do not want to.
"There is [or "there will be"] no going back home" --> For some reason going back is not an option, it is too late to return now.
"There won't be any hugging my children [or more natural "any hugs for/from my children"]"

Or, if you want to keep the infinitive, simply:
"It's impossible (for me) to go back home"
"It's impossible (for me) to hug my children"

As a side not, you would normally use "going", not "coming" (assuming you're not still "at home" - i.e. planning to depart and never come back)


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## Enquiring Mind

Maybe: _there's no way home for me (now)_


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## morzh

Enquiring Mind said:


> Maybe: _there's no way home for me (now)_



No it's not the same at all.
It is more like "Мне нет пути домой" / "Мне путь домой заказан (отрезан)".
This, what you've proposed, means there is some inhibiting factor, that precludes a person from getting back home. Such as someone waiting to kill him, or he is banned/ousted from the community etc etc. 

The original phrase does not specify anything inhibiting; it only says "I won't ever get back home". For no particular reason. It may be a threat, may be shame, may be money being tight with no prospect of getting any better, may be some other psychological reasons, or just not in the cards.
What you proposed infers some very strong inhibition.


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## Enquiring Mind

Спасибо Морж. Мне всё ещё кажется, что именно такой смысл just not on the cards в выражении _there's no way home for me _в поэтическом смысле есть, как например здесь.   
"LOST
NO HOME
ONLY THE COLD EARTH 
WILL HOLD THESE BONES

 THE COLD WIND BREAKS OUR SHELLS
THE COLD WIND SETS US FREE

 DEAD STARS, NEW MOON
THERE’S NO WAY HOME"


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## morzh

Enquiring Mind said:


> Спасибо Морж. Мне всё ещё кажется, что именно такой смысл just not *on* the cards в выражении _there's no way home for me _в поэтическом смысле есть, как например здесь.
> "LOST
> NO HOME
> ONLY THE COLD EARTH
> WILL HOLD THESE BONES
> 
> THE COLD WIND BREAKS OUR SHELLS
> THE COLD WIND SETS US FREE
> 
> DEAD STARS, NEW MOON
> THERE’S NO WAY HOME"



Possible. (Only I think it is "*in* the cards", though long time ago it was "on").  Though "not in the cards" means "it won't happen", without, again, saying anything about the reason why. Just not gonna happen. "I ain't getting the raise this year - not in the cards".
To me "no way home" is just more categorical, stronger statement. 

I think the difference is between "I don't know why but it won't happen" (I am never gonna get home) and "There are reasons I know of, that will ensure it won't happen" (there is no way home). 
PS. Notice, I do understand the difference between "there's no way home" and "there's no way I am getting home" (just in case you think I am mixing the two. Tough the general meaning to me is more or less the same).


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## LilianaB

These may all be right,  not the first one as a translation of the phrase from the poem, however none of them will work in a translation of a poem. Elemika was not translating a poem, however, it is risky to try to still translate a poem without using poetic expressions. It is better, I think to use material for translation from ordinary life, just to practice translation of different expressions, because poetry may use strange constructions and strange, unusual expressions. This is my opinion.
Reply to Blago.


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## LilianaB

I still agree with Morzh that the Russian line about coming home implies more than just being unable to return home because somebody got lost in the wilderness or in the cold world. I think it somehow implies that the person was forbidden to return home (by the authorities, for example), like a person who is in a camp or in prison, rather than just in Antarctica, for example, - simply lost.


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## Enquiring Mind

Thank you LilianaB. I think this is more about English than Russian.  _There's no way home_ in a wide sense simply means _I can't go home_,_ it's impossible for me to go home _for whatever reason. It covers any possible reason. 
 Take the following example (from sports.ru) - the meaning is the same as the dative + infinitive construction in мне не вернуться в дом родной.  

29-летний полузащитник Джо Коул, выступающий на правах аренды за «Лилль», выразил надежду, что еще сможет сыграть за сборную Англии. «У меня весьма успешная карьера – в Англии я выиграл все, что только можно. В ближайших десяти матчах я вновь начну показывать свою лучший футбол – и не понимаю, почему бы *мне не вернуться* в сборную», – рассказал Коул в эфире BBC.

I don't understand why there's no way back into the team for me/I can't get back into the team.  From the context, it's clear we're not talking about a physical or practical impossibility, apparently the people who pick the team ("the authorities") don't want him back (the meaning you suggested).


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## LilianaB

Why shouldn't I return. This means in the context: why not. I don't believe it is the same construction as the one from the poem. But let's wait for other opinions. I agree with you as to the possible meaning of the English phrase: there is no going home, that it can mean anything, I mean presuppose any reason for the inability to return home, but I think it is less emphatic than the Russian expression and anything related to a ban (political ban) from home would be the last option for me from the list of possible meanings of the phrase, whereas what comes to mind first as a possible meaning of the Russian phrase is political ban, exile, camp, prison, and only then other possibilities. This is based on this poem. I am not sure what would happen if the expression was to be taken out of context.


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## elemika

Thank you all for your help!

As I see it,
the person dreaming  of home realizes that there is no getting  back for him: he isn't free  to go this way  (for some reason/reasons: lack of money or of willpower,  ilness, political ban...-  you have proposed many of them),

while the phrase "Почему бы мне не вернуться?" gives the idea of free choice (no obvious reason why not getting back)

@Enquiring Mind: nice lyrics, thank you. 

So,
_There is no way home for me_ //_There is no getting back for me_ // _It's impossible for me to get back_ / _(to hug children_)

@Благо: thank you, your "_it's impossible to me_" is very helpful!

@Liliana:  you are right,  in Russian this phrase sounds  emphatically : there is a  hidden sorrow/ melancholy in it. Maybe, because of the context, but  also the word order could produce this effect:
_Мне не вернуться в дом родной_  vs  _В __ родной дом мне не вернуться_ (метро уже не работает, останусь ночевать у друзей).

Another example:
_Мне не стать космонавтом_ (poetic sorrow, especially if further goes: чтоб достать тебе с неба звезду) vs _Космонавтом мне не стать_ (realistic statement, and further: буду сеять и пахать)

And again, many many thanks to everyone!!!!


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## morzh

Enquiring Mind said:


> и не понимаю, почему бы *мне не вернуться* в сборную», – рассказал Коул в эфире BBC.
> 
> I don't understand why there's no way back into the team for me/I can't get back into the team.



Another example of not enough context.

It means "I don't see a reason why I wouldn't go back to the home team".


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## Explorer41

elemika said:


> Закрыты двери предо мной -
> Мне не вернуться в дом родной,
> Мне не обнять своих детей;
> Я пленник шелковых сетей.


Please tell me, who is the author of these lyrics? Quick googling didn't give anything relevant.


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## elemika

Explorer41 said:


> Please tell me, who is the author of these lyrics? Quick googling didn't give anything relevant.



Sorry, it hasn't been published  (and  maybe the author prefers  to remain anonymous??).

С наступающим!!!


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