# Chocolate chip biscuit [BE biscuit vs AE biscuit vs cookie]



## EdisonBhola

Hi all, I heard that British people call what Americans call cookies "biscuits". But for chocolate chip cookies, would BE speakers say "chocolate chip biscuits" instead?


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## entangledbank

Yes, we would, but they could also be called cookies, which has a much narrower meaning in BrE: a rough, irregular, round biscuit, as if from dough spooned onto a tray and baked. Chocolate chips are usually in this sort of biscuit, so they could be labelled chocolate chip cookies here.


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## Keith Bradford

I don't disagree with Entangledbank, but I'd still call them "chocolate chip biscuits".  Why?  Because I'd feel ever so slightly embarrassed at having adopted the advertiser's name for them, when it's not the word I normally use.


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## EdisonBhola

Thanks. How about the above then? Some of these are round while some are rectangular. Do BE speakers call them biscuits or cookies?


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## You little ripper!

You didn't ask for the Australian perspective on this, Edison, but I'll offer it anyway.  We normally use the word 'biscuit' like the Brits (although 'cookie' is becoming quite popular due to American TV, movies etc.), but for some reason 'chocolate chip cookie' seems to have become a set phrase. I rarely hear 'chocolate chip biscuit' here.


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## EdisonBhola

Thanks You little ripper! Any NZ English speakers here?


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## Keith Bradford

EdisonBhola said:


> How about the above then? Some of these are round while some are rectangular. Do BE speakers call them biscuits or cookies?



Biscuits.   (Shortbread biscuits, to be precise.)


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## velisarius

You little ripper! said:


> 'chocolate chip cookie' seems to have become a set phrase



I don't have much contact with England nowadays, but my kids all talk about these "cookies", so I think it's probably a set phrase for Brits too (it's what's printed on the packet). For me they're just biscuits, because "cookies" for me are the large, soft, American type of biscuit that stick to my teeth."

Edit: (I'm referring to the "chocolate chip" things, not the ones in the photo).


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## Copyright

I've learned over the years to use biscuits, thanks to my BE-speaking wife, but when it says "Butter Cookies" on the tin (and Kjeldsens' are extremely popular in both Hong Kong and Penang), I call them butter cookies – which sounds a lot better than butter biscuits. Although we do get Scottish shortbread (biscuits) here, too – which I call simply shortbread.


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## EdisonBhola

Copyright said:


> I've learned over the years to use biscuits, thanks to my BE-speaking wife, but when it says "Butter Cookies" on the tin (and Kjeldsens' are extremely popular in both Hong Kong and Penang), I call them butter cookies – which sounds a lot better than butter biscuits. Although we do get Scottish shortbread (biscuits) here, too – which I call simply shortbread.


Without the brand or the tin (let's say it's a knockoff product), would you call them biscuits or cookies?


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## Copyright

EdisonBhola said:


> Without the brand or the tin (let's say it's a knockoff product), would you call them biscuits or cookies?


It would depend on who I was talking to – cookies for AE speakers and biscuits for BE speakers. And yes, I pay that much attention, especially since both terms are in my everyday vocabulary.  Now pass me a biscuit _and_ a cookie – I'll have both.

And I use shortbread no matter who I'm talking to.


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## EdisonBhola

This is a little confusing. What do British people call the snacks that Americans call biscuits? For example, those circular biscuits with chocolate coated on one side?


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## velisarius

Perhaps a member who speaks AE could post an image of an American "biscuit". I'm intrigued.


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## elroy

EdisonBhola said:


> What do British people call the snacks that Americans call biscuits? For example, those circular biscuits with chocolate coated on one side?


 I'm not sure what you're talking about.  In American English a biscuit is a type of bread roll.

Cookies that are circular and coated in chocolate on one side are still cookies.


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## Edinburgher

velisarius said:


> I'm intrigued.


Me too.  What things do Americans call biscuits?  Do you mean Jaffa cakes?  Victoria sponge?


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## You little ripper!

According to Wikipedia:

_In the United States and some parts of English Canada, a "biscuit" is a savoury quick bread, somewhat similar to a scone, though sugar is not used in the dough. Leavening is achieved through the use of baking powder or when using buttermilk baking soda. Biscuits are usually referred to as either "baking powder biscuits"[3] or "buttermilk biscuits" if buttermilk is used rather than milk as a liquid. A Southern regional variation using the term "beaten biscuit" (or in New England "sea biscuit") is closer to hardtack than soft dough biscuits.[4]_


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## EdisonBhola

How about this? Cookies or biscuits?


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## PaulQ

The picture is of a pack of arrowroot *biscuits*.

The answer is always "biscuits". To the BE ear, "cookie/cookie" is very AE. It is so AE that in my mind it creates the idea of a pair of freckled, archetypal American kids from the Mid-West of the USA sitting in the kitchen at a table with a chequered cloth. They have a biscuit in one hand and a glass of milk in another - a scene that is alien to the UK.


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## velisarius

Would you say "chocolate chip biscuits" Paul? Just checking whether I understand the implications of your post. I have the same mental image - we may have seen the same "movies".


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## EdisonBhola

Would Americans call the snacks in the second picture cookies?


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## You little ripper!

PaulQ said:


> It is so AE that in my mind it creates the idea of a pair of freckled, archetypal American kids from the Mid-West of the USA sitting at a table with a chequered cloth, in the kitchen with a biscuit (don't you mean 'cookie', Paul? ) in one hand and a glass of milk in another - a scene that is alien to the UK. Really! Australians must have picked up this habit from the Americans, then. It was always milk and cookies, er... I mean, biscuits, after school to tide us over until dinner (or is that 'tea'? )


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## elroy

EdisonBhola said:


> Would Americans call the snacks in the second picture cookies?


You mean these?



EdisonBhola said:


>


 Yes, those are cookies, too.  In American English "cookies" is a very broad term and includes many different shapes, sizes, consistencies, and flavors.


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## PaulQ

velisarius said:


> Would you say "chocolate chip biscuits" Paul?


Yes, I certainly would. I distinctly remember that there were chocolate chip biscuits before there were chocolate chip "cookies". When I saw the word "cookies", I wondered how they were different from biscuits - they weren't. Eschewing the blandishments of the marketing man to have me be part of the American Dream, they remain "biscuits".

The following converstation:
"I've got some biscuits. Do you want some?"
"What sort are they?"
"Chocolate chip."
"They aren't biscuits, they are cookies."​is a conversation that you are not going to hear in BE.


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## elroy

Likewise, the following conversation is not a conversation you're going to hear in American English:

"I have some cookies. Do you want some?"
"What kind are they?"
"They're round and coated in chocolate on one side."
"Those aren't cookies, they're biscuits."​


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## Copyright

Have a look at the Wikipedia article on Biscuit – it shows American and British biscuits side by side (below, as well, although those don't look like the ones Grandma made):


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## EdisonBhola

Copyright said:


> Have a look at the Wikipedia article on Biscuit – it shows American and British biscuits side by side (below, as well, although those don't look like the ones Grandma made):
> 
> View attachment 17760


The left one looks like a scone.


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## dermott

You little ripper! said:


> Really! Australians must have picked up this habit from the Americans, then. It was always milk and cookies, er... I mean, biscuits, after school to tide us over until dinner (or is that 'tea'? )



One of the reasons I fled Australia for Italy. Here there is one word to cover the lot. And I'm not allowed to post it in an English-only forum. Dinner or tea? Depends whether you're Eastern or Western suburbs. In Sydney anyway.


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## velisarius

I'm not so sure I trust that Wikipedia article, Copy. They mention "biscuits with gravy".


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## Copyright

EdisonBhola said:


> The left one looks like a scone.


It's a restaurant biscuit, not a scone, as the caption shows when you visit the page: "American biscuit (left) from Bob Evans Restaurant (Unit 141, Pittsburgh, PA)."


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## elroy

velisarius said:


> I'm not so sure I trust that Wikipedia article, Copy. They mention "biscuits with gravy".


 I don't know if you're joking, Velisarius, but you can definitely dunk American biscuits in gravy.  They're not too sweet for that to work.


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## Copyright

velisarius said:


> I'm not so sure I trust that Wikipedia article, Copy. They mention "biscuits with gravy".


Of course we have biscuits with gravy – one of the best things about visiting Grandma.


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## PaulQ

Copyright said:


> "American biscuit (left) from Bob Evans Restaurant (Unit 141, Pittsburgh, PA)."


I'll leave it to you to write to Mr Evans (A Welsh name) and tell him of his mistake. 

The point about biscuits is given in its etymology "bis-cuit" = "twice baked" - indicating the essential crunchy quality.


elroy said:


> I don't know if you're joking, Velisarius, but you can definitely dunk American biscuits in gravy. They're not too sweet for that to work.


What? You mean like we dip our biscuits in our tea, they dip their biscuits in gravy?


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## elroy

PaulQ said:


> What? You mean like we dip our biscuits in our tea, they dip their biscuits in gravy?


 It's not the standard or default way to eat them, but you certainly could.  Or you could pour the gravy on top (which is more common).  My point was that biscuits + gravy was not a weird combination. 

I found these online posts about eating biscuits with gravy:

_As for eating style: it works eaten properly with knife and fork, gravy poured over top; English style, daintily breaking off a piece and spreading gravy on it; or dunking. All good.

Haha, I dunked it! I know it's typically eaten split in half and smothered in gravy with a fork (which was provided) but dunking keeps the biscuit more crisp and let's me control the amount of gravy better. _

Review: Carl's Jr. - Biscuit 'N' Gravy         |         Brand Eating


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> given in its etymology


You're being silly (etymologically, silly has originally meant happy, then blessed, then pious, then ...).   Most of your biscuits aren't baked twice either.


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## PaulQ

Myridon said:


> Most of your biscuits aren't baked twice either.


The point was (#12) that they originally were to give them the crunchiness which is the main attribute of a biscuit.


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## pob14

"Biscuits and gravy" historically was a Southern US thing, but several fast food chains have spread the concept around the country.  This is how they are typically served:




This type of biscuit may look like a scone, but they are normally much lighter and taste like bread.


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## elroy

I don't really associate biscuits with scones.  They're two fairly distinct things in my book (appearance aside).


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## EdisonBhola

elroy said:


> You mean these?
> 
> Yes, those are cookies, too.  In American English "cookies" is a very broad term and includes many different shapes, sizes, consistencies, and flavors.


How about crackers?


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## elroy

EdisonBhola said:


> How about crackers?


 Definitely not.  Why can't you accept that they're called "cookies" in American English?


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> The point was (#12) that they originally were to give them the crunchiness which is the main attribute of a biscuit.


The crunchiness associated with ricotta cheese (which has a similar etymology)?  "Cookies" would seem to involve a lot of cooking etymologically, too. 


velisarius said:


> the large, soft, American type of biscuit that stick to my teeth."


These really didn't exist until I was an adult so I think this may be a bit of a misconception.  We always had hard, crunchy cookies when I was a child (and we walked to school in the snow and it was uphill both ways).


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## Myridon

EdisonBhola said:


> How about crackers?


I think British people pull them and wear the result on their heads on festive occasions. How's that for going off-topic?


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## velisarius

Myridon, that isn't what I meant. How confusing all this terminology is. I'm glad I don't eat biscuits - I only eat home-made_ koulourakia._

The sort of thing we (used to) get in Britain, and that we did call "cookies" were rather large round American-style biscuits that were marketed as "cookies" and indeed were not crunchy like biscuits. We even get them in Greece and they're marketed as "cookies" here too.


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## PaulQ

EdisonBhola said:


> How about crackers?


You mean "cream crackers", like these?






a dry thin biscuit to be eaten with cheese.


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## elroy

Crackers are salty; cookies are sweet.  In American English.


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## PaulQ

elroy said:


> Crackers are salty


You're thinking of *some types* of cheese biscuits... a few types can be salty.


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## elroy

I can't think of anything called a cracker in American English that is not salty.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Some people may get their cookies off in this discussion, but it's just making me hungry! By the way, I liked that film about the American racehorse, _Seacookie_. Does that take the cookie, or what?


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## Glenfarclas

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> By the way, I liked that film about the American racehorse, _Seacookie_. Does that take the cookie, or what?



We still call ship's biscuit "biscuit," though; and as a bread, it's far closer to American biscuits than to the cookies referred to as "biscuits" in the UK.


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## TheRealMcCoy

EdisonBhola said:


> How about this? Cookies or biscuits?



Biscuits, Portuguese biscuits ("Maria"), appropriated by Spanish. Not bad, really!


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## RM1(SS)

EdisonBhola said:


> Would Americans call the snacks in the second picture cookies?


Of course.

American biscuits:




Biscuit with sausage and egg - a popular snack, often with a slice of cheese added:


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## Hermione Golightly

Our 'crackers' aren't sweet but they aren't especially salty. Our 'oatcakes' are not cakes but savoury biscuits. If you ask for 'coffee cake' in the USA you will get a (boring) cake but it bears no resemblance to the British concept.

I call the chocolate chip  things 'cookies' because they are American unlike the usual British and European biscuits many of which are very elegant. As velisarius has suggested, a _cookie_ is a rather large - big and thick- very home-made-looking biscuit, made by dropping dollops of the mix onto the baking tray rather than cutting the shapes out from the dough with biscuit cutters.

Chocolate chip cookies originated in the USA, like brownies. It's a bit like rice : if it's an Italian recipe you call it _risotto_ but if you're eating Indian you call it rice. In another incarnation, so to speak, you call it _pilaff._


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## Packard

A friend of mine (who I have not seen in years) was the top cookie salesman in the USA.  Everyone called him "Cookie".  He eventually ended up owning his own cookie factory and for years sold cookies to the Girl Scouts.  Nabisco finally bought him out.

Despite the fact that he was in the USA and all he ever sold was cookies, he always referred to himself as a "biscuit salesman" and I believe that is the term that is used for this sort of sales person in the USA.

This is an anomaly in American English.  Each time he mentioned he was a "biscuit salesman" he had to explain that he sold cookies.


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## elroy

"Biscuit cutters."  

Out of curiosity, do you use "biscuit cutter" metaphorically, like we use "cookie cutter" - to mean something that is unoriginal, fits the typical mold, etc.?


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## Glenfarclas

elroy said:


> Out of curiosity, do you use "biscuit cutter" metaphorically, like we use "cookie cutter" - to mean something that is unoriginal, fits the typical mold, etc.?



They must, I suppose.  Well, that's the way the biscuit crumbles.


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## bennymix

Just to sum up, what do British people call the items in rm1's post #50, and pob #36,
i.e. (American) biscuits?

(puffy, non-sweet bits of quickbread?)(scones?)


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## Myridon

velisarius said:


> The sort of thing we (used to) get in Britain, and that we did call "cookies" were rather large round American-style biscuits that were marketed as "cookies" and indeed were not crunchy like biscuits. We even get them in Greece and they're marketed as "cookies" here too.


If you've only seen a Ford Mondeo, you shouldn't assume all cars are Ford Mondeos.   (I picked that car because it's a Ford Contour in the US.)
If you're talking about what I think you are, if I had seen one of those in the 1970s, I probably would have thought it was a small cake or muffin.  Now, we have muffin tops which are the same thing only bigger and a little bit cake-ier.


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## elroy

You're such a smart biscuit, Glen.


Glenfarclas said:


> They must, I suppose.  Well, that's the way the biscuit crumbles.


 Well, they may not have the idiom at all, or they may have imported "cookie cutter" as is.


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## velisarius

bennymix said:


> Just to sum up, what do British people call the items in rm1's post #50, and pob #36,
> i.e. (American) biscuits?
> 
> (puffy, non-sweet bits of quickbread?)(scones?)



They look like scones, but I've never tasted one. I read this, so I think I would have to call them "American scones":

The American biscuit is very similar to the British scone. The difference is that while scones are often served split in half and filled with jam and cream, biscuits are usually served alongside a meal. Both biscuits and scones are best served warm from the oven with butter
Read more:Biscuit Recipe & Video - Joyofbaking.com *Video Recipe*

The idea of serving scones with a kind of thick sauce that may have bits of sausage or meat in it is very repugnant to me (and I have been known to eat sheep intestines and spleen on occasion).


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## elroy

But they're not scones!  I disagree with that description.  They may _look_ like scones, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.  At least the scones in the US taste distinctly different from biscuits.  I would find scones with gravy weird as well.


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## Myridon

velisarius said:


> The idea of serving scones with a kind of thick sauce that may have bits of sausage or meat in it is very repugnant to me


It's called Yorkshire pudding.   A piece of individually baked dough in close proximity to thickened meat juices.
Yorkshire pudding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I _luuurrrrv_ Yorkshre pudding with roast beef and gravy, but your photo doesn't loook like any I've ever seen, Myridon - and served in a styrofoam fast-food container, at that ?! (With carrots?)


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## Myridon

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> I _luuurrrrv_ Yorkshre pudding with roast beef and gravy, but your photo in #60 doesn't loook like any I've ever seen, Myridon - and served in a styrofoam fast-food container, at that ?! (With carrots?)


Complain to Wikipedia, not me.  I think the other pictures also have gravy, but it's harder to see.  Not really what I had in mind either, but it has lots of gravy and it's on top!


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Re "ship's biscuits": Wasn't the type of (non-sweet) "biscuit" provided to English (or British) sailors called "hardtack"? I'll bet it wasn't like any of the photos we've seen so far.


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## Sparky Malarky

Bit of irony: one of the biggest manufacturers of cookies in the US is Nabisco.  The name is taken from National Biscuit Company.


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## PaulQ

Ah! I see, the American biscuits are nothing like British scones:


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## Glenfarclas

Sparky Malarky said:


> Bit of irony: one of the biggest manufacturers of cookies in the US is Nabisco.  The name is taken from National Biscuit Company.



That's true; the company started out manufacturing ship's biscuit.


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## Myridon

PaulQ said:


> Ah! I see, the American biscuits are nothing like British scones:


In as much as any two bread-like products are exactly the same thing, yes, they are nothing alike.  A eclair looks like a baguette (or a hot dog bun) with some chocolate on it so they are alike.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

An éclair is nothing near like a baguette in size (more like a "_pain au la_it"); a hot dog bun, yes. (The icing needn't be chocolate; the most common other type of icing is _café_.)


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## bennymix

I looked at two sites.  The bbc site has a picture of scones looking very like the American biscuits.   The recipe looks similar, but has vanilla in it, which seems odd.

The Cook's site picture again is similar to American, but that writer says the British scone has much less butter.  The picture shows raisins;  apparently it's not uncommon, though some British folks object.

Jamie Oliver's scones have sugar and may have cherries.

I don't think 'jam on' is a make or break issue.   I've done it, but many Americans are content with butter only (besides the butter in), and as my last post shows, Southerners may put gravy on.


Classic scones with jam & clotted cream

picture [British scones] and recipe


The Difference Between British and American Scones: Test Cook Andrea Geary Explains - Cook's Illustrated

picture and discussion of differences.
========================

Jamie Oliver's scones have sugar and may have cherries:
Crumbliest scones | Jamie Oliver


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## Copperknickers

bennymix said:


> Just to sum up, what do British people call the items in rm1's post #50, and pob #36,
> i.e. (American) biscuits?
> 
> (puffy, non-sweet bits of quickbread?)(scones?)



We don't call them anything, because they don't exist in the UK. If pressed, we might call them 'muffins', which opens a whole new can of worms. English muffins are not particularly 'puffy' but are used similarly to American biscuits, i.e. basically a type of flattened bread roll. American muffins of course are a type of cupcake (or fairy cake, as we sometimes call those in the UK... this is really the most confusing thread I've seen in a long time).


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## bennymix

I take it you are being sarcastic?       (For foreign born readers of the thread)



PaulQ said:


> Ah! I see, the American biscuits are nothing like British scones:


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Copperknickers said:


> this is really the most confusing thread I've seen in a long time).


But fascinating, and lots of fun! Maybe it should be in "Culture Café"! ["Are you ready to order?" - "Yes, one biscuit, one cookie, one soft bap, one muffin, one scone, one cupcake, one roll, one doughnut, one Yorkshire pudding, one Jaffa orange, and one fairy cake, please!"]


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## Sparky Malarky

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> But fascinating, and lots of fun! Maybe it should be in "Culture Café"! ["Are you ready to order?" - "Yes, one biscuit, one cookie, one soft bap, one muffin, one scone, one cupcake, one roll, one doughnut, one Yorkshire pudding, one Jaffa orange, and one fairy cake, please!"]



No Twinkies?  No, that's not fair; that's a brand name.  But where are the crumpets?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

RM1(SS), The second photo in your #50 looks like an "Egg Mc Muffin", without the egg! 

Sparky, They're on the 'pavement'...


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## PaulQ

elroy said:


> Out of curiosity, do you use "biscuit cutter" metaphorically, like we use "cookie cutter" - to mean something that is unoriginal, fits the typical mold, etc.?


No.


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## Copperknickers

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> But fascinating, and lots of fun! Maybe it should be in "Culture Café"! ["Are you ready to order?" - "Yes, one biscuit, one cookie, one soft bap, one muffin, one scone, one cupcake, one roll, one doughnut, one Yorkshire pudding, one Jaffa orange, and one fairy cake, please!"]



And let's not get started on the pancake/crepe issue either. Not to mention pancakes vary even within the UK: Scottish pancakes are more like mini American pancakes than English pancakes, what Americans would call crepes.


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## Copperknickers

elroy said:


> "Biscuit cutters."
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you use "biscuit cutter" metaphorically, like we use "cookie cutter" - to mean something that is unoriginal, fits the typical mold, etc.?



I haven't heard that expression before, I don't think there's really a British equivalent.


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## bennymix

From the bbc site I mentioned:

Take a 5cm cutter (smooth-edged cutters tend to cut more cleanly, giving a better rise) and dip it into some flour. Plunge into the dough, then repeat until you have four scones.

From biscuiteers.com

Our Gingerbread Man Biscuit Cutter is perfect if you want to create your own beautiful gingerbread biscuits. Create your own Gingerbread family and friends with this stainless steel gingerbread cutter. This cutter is around 10.5cm x 8cm.




Copperknickers said:


> I haven't heard that expression before, I don't think there's really a British equivalent.


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## PaulQ

Copperknickers and I were referring to "cookie cutter" used mean something that is unoriginal, fits the typical mold, etc.

Anyway, it's not a biscuit cutter if you use it to cut ordinary pastry (e.g. scones) - it becomes a pastry cutter. You use a pastry cutter to cut pastry, and a biscuit cutter to cut biscuits (even if they look the same, which they usually don't - different designs and all that.)

To make it simple here is a set of pastry cutters note the typically corrugated edges. These would be used for scones:







And here are biscuit cutters: Note that they are usually smooth-edged and entertaining shapes or "biscuit shaped."


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