# believe



## ThomasK

Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three? 

1. OK, I believe you. 
2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...). 
2b. Catholic/... faith
3. I believe that you are right. 

Etymology: I... believe it refers to linking up, attaching/ getting attached - and is linked with _to love_, but I find no confirmation. 

*Dutch: *
_geloven_ [in] (_het geloof)_ in 1, 2a, 2b, 3. 

*German:*
_glauben_ [+ dative case (1)/ an] (_der Glaube_)  

*French:*
_croire _(any noun ?), but _foi_ in 2b


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## Black4blue

Turkish:
*Sana inanıyorum.* (I believe to you)
*Tanrıya inanıyorum.* (I believe to God)
*Haklı olduğuna inanıyorum.* (I believe to (that) you're right)

It doesn't mean anything about_ love_ in Turkish.


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.



*Finnish:*
_Selvä, uskon sinua._
_Uskon Jumalaan (yliluonnollisiin voimiin...)_
_Tunnustan katolilaista uskoa._
_Uskon, että olet oikeassa._

The verb is the same, _uskoa_, but there's a slight variation of cases. 1 takes a direct, partial object whereas 2a takes the illative case ("to").

Note that "usko" 'faith' is actually a derivation of the abovementioned verb. That's why we use the verb "tunnustaa" (lit. confess) when talking about Lutheran/Catholic/Hindi/Islamic faiths.


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## bibax

Czech:

1. Věřím ti. (věřiti + dative like Lat. credo/confido tibi)
2a. Věřím v Boha. (věřiti + v + acc. like Lat. Credo in unum Deum)
2b. Víra (Latin fides).
3. Věřím, že máš pravdu.

The verb *věřiti* is regularly derived from the noun *víra*.

The noun *víra*, in Old Czech, Old Slavonic *věra*, is related to Latin _vera_ (_res vera_ =  true thing; fem. of verus) and German _wahr_ with same meaning. So *věra* originally meant _truth, true thing_.

*Věra* is also a common Christian name.


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## hui

sakvaka said:


> *Finnish:*
> _Tunnustan katolilaista uskoa._



(Off-topic correction)
Not _katolilaista_ but _katolista_._ Katolilainen _is a member of the _katolinen _church.


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## ThomasK

Black4blue said:


> Turkish:
> *Sana inanıyorum.* (I believe to you)
> *Tanrıya inanıyorum.* (I believe to God)
> *Haklı olduğuna inanıyorum.* (I believe to (that) you're right)
> 
> It doesn't mean anything about_ love_ in Turkish.


 
I  guess 'Catholic/Muslim faith' is based on the same verb then. Or ... ? 

Thanks, everyone !


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## Orlin

bibax said:


> Czech:
> 
> 1. Věřím ti. (věřiti + dative like Lat. credo/confido tibi)
> 2a. Věřím v Boha. (věřiti + v + acc. like Lat. Credo in unum Deum)
> 2b. Víra (Latin fides).
> 3. Věřím, že máš pravdu.
> 
> The verb *věřiti* is regularly derived from the noun *víra*.
> 
> The noun *víra*, in Old Czech, Old Slavonic *věra*, is related to Latin _vera_ (_res vera_ = true thing; fem. of verus) and German _wahr_ with same meaning. So *věra* originally meant _truth, true thing_.
> 
> *Věra* is also a common Christian name.


 
Bulgarian, Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian and Russian do the same: they use the verbs вярвам, v(j)erovati and верить rsp., all derived from the noun "faith" вяра, v(j)era and вера rsp (this noun is also a common personal proper name).


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## Tjahzi

*Swedish* uses the same verb in all sentences - _tro_, although with a preposition function as a verbal adverb similarly to English in the case of 2a+b.


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?
> 
> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.


In Greek:
1. Verb «πιστεύω» (pis'tevo) deriving form the Classical «πιστεύω» (pĭ'steuō)-->_to trust, rely on _metaph. _to put faith in. _From the feminine noun «πίθτις» ('pitʰtis) eventually «πίστις» ('pistis, 'pisti in Modern Greek-->_trust_ metaph. _faith_) ultimately from «πείθω» ('pĕitʰō, 'piθo in Modern Greek)-->_to __persuade, _PIE base *bʰeidʰ-,_ to persuade, trust. 
_2a.Idem.
2b. Idem.
3. Idem.

[θ] is a voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative


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## Black4blue

ThomasK said:


> I guess 'Catholic/Muslim faith' is based on the same verb then.
> 
> Thanks, everyone !


 
Yeah.


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## English Speaker

ThomasK said:


> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.


 
Spanish:

1. Está bien, te creo.      Está bien, creo en ti.
2a. Creo en Dios. (o en poderes sobrenaturales, o...).
2b. Creo en la religión católica.
3. Creo que tienes razón.     Pienso que tienes razón.


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## Ghabi

ThomasK said:


> Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?
> 
> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.


In Arabic three different verbs are used:

1) Saddaqa ("deem true")
2) 2aamana bi-
3) Zanna or i3taqada ("think")


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## Saluton

Russian:
1. *верить* (v*e*rit')
2а. *верить* (v*e*rit')
2b. *вера* (v*e*ra)
3. *думать* (d*u*mat', think), *считать* (schit*a*t', count), *полагать* (polag*a*t', assume)


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?
> ..



*Yes, we can!* 

*Hungarian*

1. hiszek
2a. hiszek
2b. hit
3. hiszem


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## ThomasK

Do you have the same word for 'faith' then (religious faith)? 



Tjahzi said:


> *Swedish* uses the same verb in all sentences - _tro_, although with a preposition function as a verbal adverb similarly to English in the case of 2a+b.



I suppose that is linked with t_rust i_n English (and so with faith)...


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## ThomasK

Ghabi said:


> In Arabic three different verbs are used:
> 
> 1) Saddaqa ("deem true")
> 2) 2aamana bi-
> 3) Zanna or i3taqada ("think")


But how about the word for fa_ith ?_ No parallel then?


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## tFighterPilot

Hebrew:
1) אני מאמין לך /aní ma'amín lekhá/
2) אני מאמין באלהים /aní ma'amín be'elohím/
3) אני סבור שאתה צודק /aní savúr she'atá tsodék/


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## ThomasK

Could you tell me what the verbs are ? Are they in any way semantically related?


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## tFighterPilot

The verb מאמין (present masculine singular) is the general verb for believe. Further more, the words faith and belief are translated to אמונה /emuná/. As for the verb סבור is somewhat weaker and could be translated to "assume".


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## ThomasK

Now I realize that /emunà/ turned up in two of the three. But none like that in 3 then? Assuming is also something like  trusting, believing, etc., isn't it?


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?
> 
> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.
> 
> Etymology: I... believe it refers to linking up, attaching/ getting attached - and is linked with _to love_, but I find no confirmation.
> 
> *Dutch: *
> _geloven_ [in] (_het geloof)_ in 1, 2a, 2b, 3.
> 
> *German:*
> _glauben_ [+ dative case (1)/ an] (_der Glaube_)
> 
> *French:*
> _croire _(any noun ?), but _foi_ in 2b


  In my Tagalog; 1.) Ayos naman at paniwala ako sa iyo.  2a.) Panalig ako sa Maykapal (Diyos)   2b.) Paniniwalang Katoliko   3.) Just say; "tama ka" or "matuwid na pagkakasabi mo".(you say it correctly)


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## ThomasK

Do I see 'pani- all the time ? And could 'matuwid' be Arabic of origin?


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## arielipi

hebrew:
סבור\חושב can sometimes replace מאמין
savur\tohe meaning think.


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Do I see 'pani- all the time ? And could 'matuwid' be Arabic of origin?


this 'pani' i think is derived from older form of Tagalog called Dumaget and it means "to become"/magiging in Tagalog.I guess the second part of word "Wa" is the sound of name of God followed by "la" with possible meaning "know" (Alam) so this word paniwala may mean " To become aware that there is God". The word "matuwid" i think is Aramaic origin. I know that there is letter T in Aramaic read as Tav(taw?) and i am not sure what is its exact meaning but in Tagalog it is righteousness/straight to the point/truthfulness. The word "panalig" is an old Tagalog word , only the last part is clear to me because most of the words with "ig' has the meanings (based on/ founded on/established).


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## rayloom

ThomasK said:


> Ghabi said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Arabic three different verbs are used:
> 
> 1) Saddaqa ("deem true")
> 2) 2aamana bi-
> 3) Zanna or i3taqada ("think")
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But how about the word for fa_ith ?_ No parallel then?
Click to expand...


The word for faith is Iman, which is actually the verbal noun of 2aamana (already mentioned by Ghabi).


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> Do you have the same word for 'faith' then (religious faith)?


There is no difference in Swedish between to believe - _att tro_, and faith - _tro_
_Hur kan du tro det är sant?_ - How can you believe that's true?
_Min tro gör mig stark_ - My faith makes me strong


ThomasK said:


> rust i[/I]n English (and so with faith)...


English have the word troth, meaning truth, fidelity, loyalty, both Swedish tro and English troth going back to the Old English _trēowth_


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## arielipi

AutumnOwl said:


> *There is no difference in Swedish between to believe* - _att tro_, and faith - _tro_
> _Hur kan du tro det är sant?_ - How can you believe that's true?
> _Min tro gör mig stark_ - My faith makes me strong
> 
> English have the word troth, meaning truth, fidelity, loyalty, both Swedish tro and English troth going back to the Old English _trēowth_



Same goes with hebrew in basic words, emuna - faith, or being religious; ma'amin is believing.
Both come from the root אמן a-m-n.



> Now I realize that /emunà/ turned up in two of the three. But none like  that in 3 then? Assuming is also something like  trusting, believing,  etc., isn't it?



As i said earlier and was somewhat out of place:
סבור\חושב can sometimes replace מאמין
savur\khoshev meaning think.


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## ThomasK

I was about to start a new 'believe' thread, while wondering about the link between believing (and thinking) and truth, but then I found this one back. I see that in most cases the verb 'believe' can be used to refer to both trusting (_I believe in God, I believe him_) as thinking (_I believe that _...). 

Greek: *pist*- 
In most Germanic languages : often with *gl-b/v* or *bel-v* (West), tro- (North Germanic). 
In Slavic : basically *v-r* (true-, but I believe Russian makes a distinction between 'believe in' and 'believe that'). 
IN Arabic, Hebrew, ... languages: a lot have -*m-n *but I believe Arab makes a distinction between 'B in' and '"B that' (even between all three)*, and Hebrew does too ...

* I'd love to read a little more about the "*tsaddak*" root/word. It refers to truth inArabic, I gather, not to trust, or not directly. is that correct? And it has a special meaning in Hebrew, I believe: the righteous one, etc.


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## 123xyz

Macedonian:

We'd use "верува" in all three, coming from the noun "вера", meaning "faith, belief".


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## ThomasK

But doesn't "вера" also mean 'truth' (Lat. veritas, as some people already pointed out)? Or is 'pravda' the new word for 'truth' in all those languages, incl. Macedonian?


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## 123xyz

In Macedonian, it most certainly doesn't, and I don't know if it did. The word for truth is "вистина". Justice is "правда", although in Russian it means "truth", as far as I gather. Furthermore, the adjective form "верен" cannot mean "true" or "correct", although it's Bulgarian cognate does, I believe; it simply means "loyal, faithful". Anyway, in case you're curious, I'll give you some information about related words:

верник - believer (in God)
верба - faith (e.g. I have faith in you; I have faith in God; "вера" simply means "faith" in the sence "religion")
доверба - confidence, trust
доверлив - reliable, trustworthy
веродостоен - trustworthy
уверува - convince, persuade, assure (cause to believe)
поверува - believe, fall for, buy
проверува - check, *ver*ify
завера - conspiracy


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## SuperXW

In Simplified Chinese:
1. I believe you. 相信(believe) / 信任(trust)
2a. I believe in God. 相信(believe) / 信仰(faith-level believe)
2b. Catholic/... faith 信仰(faith: noun)
3. I believe that you are right. 相信(believe)
信 is the basic character for all the related meanings, so you can find it in all the words above.


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## ThomasK

Is there some way of describing/ explaining the basic character, SuperXW? (I know that my questions may be too Western, starting from roots, not from ideograms; just trying...)

Would you be able to somehow explain the difference between 'believe' and 'faith-level believe'? I see they have the same root, but does the choice for one of them have an impact on the statement 'I believe in God' (if this is correctly worded)?


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## arielipi

In hebrew
צ-ד-ק ts-d-q root is used for right(correct)/righteousness/righteous/charity/justice words.


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## ger4

ThomasK said:


> But doesn't "вера" also mean 'truth' (Lat. veritas, as some people already pointed out)? Or is 'pravda' the new word for 'truth' in all those languages, incl. Macedonian?


I don't know if it is the same in other Slavic languages but in Russian, at least, *верa/vera* can be translated as 'trust', 'faith', 'belief', related to *верить/verit'*, 'to trust', 'to believe' and *верный/verny, *'true'; 'faithful', while *правда/pravda* is normally translated as 'truth'. There are many derivations of both word stems --> *123xyz's post on Macedonian*


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## ThomasK

That is great information. Thanks !


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## SuperXW

ThomasK said:


> Is there some way of describing/ explaining the basic character, SuperXW? (I know that my questions may be too Western, starting from roots, not from ideograms; just trying...)
> 
> Would you be able to somehow explain the difference between 'believe' and 'faith-level believe'? I see they have the same root, but does the choice for one of them have an impact on the statement 'I believe in God' (if this is correctly worded)?


Sorry, it's not easy for me to explain clearly the concept of Chinese characters, you can check wikipedia's page for that.
It's kind of like roots of words. Each character has one or several "essential meanings". Sometimes, a single character is enough to function as a word, sometimes it's not, because the meaning is often too abstract or ambiguous. So, we often have two to four characters combined to form a particular word, the meaning would be more concrete and clear. 
信 the character itself means "believe", but it is extremely general. It can mean any kind of believing/belief. You can use it alone in all listed cases.
信仰 is a religious word. It can be either a verb ("faith-level believe") or a noun (just "faith"). 
相信 can only be the verb of "believe" (in general). It's not as serious as 信仰.
You 信仰 God, you can also say you 相信 him.
But when you 相信 some regular guy, or some common statements, or some fact, you cannot use the word 信仰.


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## bibax

ThomasK said:


> But doesn't "вера" also mean 'truth' (Lat. veritas, as some people already pointed out)? Or is 'pravda' the new word for 'truth' in all those languages, incl. Macedonian?


I mentioned it as a hypothetical original meaning, věra is probably a substantivized adjective (fem. form) = res vera, true thing.

The adjective *věrný/верный* still means true (accurate) beside faithful (loyal), like in German (ge)treue: 1) věrná kopie, getreue Kopie 2) věrný klient, treue Klient.

ověřiti/заверить, prověřiti/проверить = to verify, to certify, to authenticate;

*pravda* (truth) is derived from the adjective pravъ (pravý, правый), original meaning straight/direct (directus), later right (dexter, Fr. droit < directus);


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## Angel.Aura

Hi ThomasK,


ThomasK said:


> Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?


In *Italian* you can: the verb is _credere (to believe) _and the noun is _credo (belief, mainly religious)_.


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## ThomasK

What would you replace the second _credo _by, Angel.Aura? 'Penso' or something of the kind?


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## luitzen

West-Frisian:

1. Ik leauw dy.
2a. Ik leauw yn God.
2b. Ik bin katolyk.
3. Ik leauw datst lyk hast.


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## ThomasK

I suppose 'leauw' has the same origin as 'loven', '-lieve' (in believe), doesn't it? - But 'Catholic faith' means 'katholiek geloof' in Dutch:'katolyk leauw'?


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## luitzen

I'm quite sure the origin is the same.

Frisian doesn't have a ge- prefix and usually uses the goal oriented form of the infinitive to make a noun (leauwen), but I've also heard the form leauwe.

--> it katolyke leauwe(n)

Infinitive:
- Name form: leauwe
- Goal form: (it) leauwen
Present: ik leauw, do leauwst(o/-), hy/sy/it leauwt (er), wy/jimme/hja leauwe
Preterite: ik leauwde, do leauwdest(o/-), hy/sy/it leauwde (er), wy/jimme/hja leauwden
Perfect: ik haw leauwd

o/- are the clitical forms of do
er is the clitical form of hy


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## luitzen

Maybe this is interesting to you:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic/laubijaną
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic/galaubijaną
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic/lubō


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## ThomasK

Two and a half years later I wonder about the precise meaning of "to believe" in all these cases. Do they have the same meaning?

In some cases it looks like trust, in other cases something like a truth that is being assumed only, in other cases the Latin 'credo'. Do you see a variation too?


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Two and a half years later I wonder about the precise meaning of "to believe" in all these cases. Do they have the same meaning?


Surely they don't.  But at least Russian basically utilizes the same root for all these concepts - and English "believe" can be generally translated as "верить"(imp.)/"поверить"(perf.) in all cases as well, mind you.


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## ThomasK

To me French _foi_ and English _faith_ sound so very different from our _geloof_ (belief). The former seem to refer to a relationship, ours to an intellectual, rational idea... Yet, those are the official translations...


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> To me French _foi_ and English _faith_ sound so very different from our _geloof_ (belief).


Well, I was speaking about the verb in the first place. Yet the noun вера in Russian more or less covers all the respective meanings as well.


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## ThomasK

Quite OK, but the funny thing is that the French use the verb 'croire', b ut then switch to '"foi". "Croyance" would make religion suspicious in suggesting that it is based on "beliefs" that may be unfounded.


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## Dymn

Catalan:

1. _creure_
2a. _creure_
3. _creure, pensar
_
2b:

_fe_:
1. Strong belief in something, especially religious: _tenir fe en Déu, tinc fe en les capacitats dels meus fills, la fe és cega_ "to have faith in God, I have faith in my children's skills, faith is blind"
2. System of religious beliefs: _fe cristiana, fe musulmana _"Christian faith, Muslim faith"

_creença_:
1. Act of believing: _abans la gent tenia la creença que les rates naixien de la brutícia _"long ago people believed that rats were born from the dirt"
2. Religion, especially when considered with others: _Catalunya alberga multitud de creences d'arreu del món _"Catalonia harbours myriads of beliefs from the world over"

_credo_
1. (_rare_) System of beliefs and tenets: _el credo d'un partit polític, d'una filosofia _"the tenets of a political party, of a philosophy"


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## ThomasK

I think I can recognize the same words and meanings in French _croire, penser, foi, croyance, credo_. Thanks for the clear survey!


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## ilocas2

Serbian:

1. OK, verujem ti.
2a. Verujem u Boga (ili natprirodne sile, ili...).
2b. Katolička/... vera
3. Verujem da si u pravu.


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## ThomasK

Is this trust mainly, would you say, or assume as truth? I see 'ver...' all the time.


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## 810senior

ThomasK said:


> 1. OK, I believe you.
> 2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
> 2b. Catholic/... faith
> 3. I believe that you are right.



Japanese:信じる(shinjiru) and its old form 信ず(shinzu) originating from Chinese 信 so does the pronunciation.
1. 分かりました、あなたを信じます。(Okay, I believe you) 
2a. 神/超自然現象を信じる。(I believe in God, transcendence or supernatural phenomena)
2b. 
3. あなたが正しいと信じます。  (when we use 信じる in this case, it must mean the speaker has faith in his opinion and doesn't think it is wrong; not to hold some opinion as equivalents of think, guess or something)


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Is this trust mainly, would you say, or assume as truth? I see 'ver...' all the time.


Ironically, "trust" and "truth" in English are also obviously related.  
In modern Russian that Slavic root mainly implies believing. But have in mind that the adjective "верный" ['vʲernᵻj] in the same time means "true" (as in "true statement" and "true to his wife" both - and these two are very different meanings, I believe). So the etymological (if not actual) ties are tight.


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## apmoy70

Just wanted to add that _trust_ is *«εμπιστοσύνη»* [embistoˈsini] (fem.) in Greek, a word that contains *«πίστη»* [ˈpisti] (fem.) --> _faith_:
*«Ἐν» ĕn* --> _in, within_ (PIE *h₁en(i)- _in_ cf Lat. in, Proto-Germanic *in) + *«πίστις» pístis* (fem. nom. sing.)/*«πίστεως» pístĕōs* (fem. gen. sing.) --> _faith, trust_ (PIE *bʰidʰ- _to convince, trust_ cf Lat. fidēre, Alb. be, _oath, vow_, Proto-Slavic *běda, _misery_ > Rus. беда, Pol. bieda, Proto-Germanic *bīdaną > Eng. bide/abide, D. bie, Swe. bida).


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