# Serbian (BCS): variations of tense formation



## kernelkurtz

I am trying to put together some tables of conjugated serbian verbs. I would like the tables to be as complete as possible, including, when they exist, multiple ways of expressing the same tense. 
For the tenses in question, I have listed what I think is correct (using the verb gledati).
I have used wiktionary as a reference. Below, the * represents forms that are not included in wiktionary.
Please tell me if these are acceptable forms for speech and writing.
Also, if you are aware of more variations, please list them.

Past perfect:
Gledao sam.
Ja sam gledao. *

Pluperfect:
Bio sam gledao.
Ja sam bio gledao. *

Future 1:
Gledaću.
Ja ću da gledam. *
Ja ću gledati. *

Future 2:
Budem gledao.

Conditional 1:
Gledao bih.
Ja bih gledao. *

Conditional 2:
Bio bih gledao.
Ja bih bio gledao. *


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## doorman

kernelkurtz said:


> Past perfect:
> Gledao sam.
> Ja sam gledao. *


As it happens,  you can't compare tenses. This one in particular. In a nutshell, this tense is not the past perfect. It's past simple. And, on some occasions (more than some, actually) it can also refer to present perfect. 

An example:
_I watched the game yesterday = Gledao sam utakmicu jučer_.

Past perfect corresponds to, what we call, pluskvamperfekt (i.e. pluperfect).

As for present perfect, it is usually translated in the present tense. Just to name an example:
_I've been watching you since the day you came in = Gledam te od prvog dana (otkad si došla)_.

Oh, just another observation: BCS has no notion of a continuous tense - to us, it's either past, present or future - the verb itself dictates whether it's a continuous action or not.


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## kernelkurtz

Thanks doorman.
I understand what you are saying about the problems in comparing tenses.
The names I used for the tenses are not quite right. It is always safer to use the tense names of the target language rather than the native language of the student. That's what I should have done.
Regardless, I hope the question I asked still makes sense: Are the individual ways I listed for expressing each tense acceptable?


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## phosphore

kernelkurtz said:


> Thanks doorman.
> I understand what you are saying about the problems in comparing tenses.
> The names I used for the tenses are not quite right. It is always safer to use the tense names of the target language rather than the native language of the student. That's what I should have done.
> Regardless, I hope the question I asked still makes sense: Are the individual ways I listed for expressing each tense acceptable?


 
They are, although the meanings of "gledao sam" and "ja sam gledao" or "ja ću da gledam" and "ja ću gledati" are not exactly the same.

As to the names of tenses, you may change "present perfect" to "perfect", the others are alright.


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## sokol

As phosphore mentioned, "gledao sam" and "ja sam gleadao" are not quite synonymous, the former is unmarked, the latter is marked and puts emphasis on the personal pronoun.

Also this one here:


kernelkurtz said:


> Future 1:
> Gledaću.
> Ja ću da gledam. *
> Ja ću gledati. *


is used different according to region and nationality; in my BCS courses I've been told that Croatians never would use "da gledam" (this might not be true in real life, I'm only saying that that's what you learn in courses ;-), and that Serbians prefer "da gledam" (again, this might not always be the case, I imagine that especially in Bosnia there's no clear distribution of both forms).

So while those two future formations are equivalent in its meaning but different in its connotations.

(And of course English terms for tenses do not match those for BCS tenses exactly but that's beside the point here anyway, as you asked only about formation of tenses - whatever you call them in your first post, everybody knows which tenses are meant. ;-)


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## phosphore

sokol said:


> I've been told that Croatians never would use "da gledam" (this might not be true in real life, I'm only saying that that's what you learn in courses ;-), and that Serbians prefer "da gledam" (again, this might not always be the case, I imagine that especially in Bosnia there's no clear distribution of both forms).
> 
> So while those two future formations are equivalent in its meaning but different in its connotations.


 
To my sense there's a fine difference in _meaning_ between "ja ću da gledam" and "ja ću gledati", not only in connotation. It could be compared to the difference between "I will watch" and "I'm going to watch". In the negative form this difference is rather big, as "neću da gledam" means "I don't want to watch", while "neću gledati" means "I'm not going to watch".


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## sokol

phosphore said:


> To my sense there's a fine difference in _meaning_ between "ja ću da gledam" and "ja ću gledati", not only in connotation. It could be compared to the difference between "I will watch" and "I'm going to watch". In the negative form this difference is rather big, as "neću da gledam" means "I don't want to watch", while "neću gledati" means "I'm not going to watch".


That's very interesting!
I wonder what Croats and Bosnians think about it?

(My teachers told me that they're identical in meaning and only differed according to standard language variety used.)


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## Duya

I sense that difference too: "da+present" is a Balkanism related with subjunctive, and carries the connotation of speaker's (un)willingness to perform the action. Of course, that distinction is possible only in dialects that keep both infinitive and subjunctive. Those are, in my opinion, non-Torlak Serbia, Montenegro, whole Bosnia and Herzegovina, and good parts of Croatia.

Standard (prescriptive) Croatian typically uses "željeti"+infinitive to express willingness. But I suppose that most Croats will say "neću da idem!" rather than "ne želim ići!" [citation needed]


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## doorman

Duya said:


> But I suppose that most Croats will say "neću da idem!" rather than "ne želim ići!" [citation needed]


It used to be the case. However, nowadays the "da+present" subjunctive construction is replaced more and more by the infinitive form, which is taking both meanings (but only in colloquial speech):

_Neću ići = I'm not going
Neću ići! = I don't want to go_

_Ne želim ići_ is very rarely used.


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## DenisBiH

phosphore said:


> To my sense there's a fine difference in _meaning_ between "ja ću da gledam" and "ja ću gledati", not only in connotation. It could be compared to the difference between "I will watch" and "I'm going to watch".




Sorry for reviving an old thread. I just wanted to say that I'm not sure I feel this difference. Are there perhaps some other examples where it is more obvious?

Perhaps something along the lines of...

_Ti ako hoćeš idi džogiraj, ali ja ću da odmaram.
Ti ako hoćeš idi džogiraj, ali ja ću odmarati._

...where the first implies intent a bit more strongly? Or am I just grasping at straws here?


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## phosphore

No, the second is stroger to me. The version "...ali ja ću odmarati" sounds like that has already been decided so a while ago and firmly, thus making my statement more categoric, while "...ja ću da odmaram" says just what I want to and thus will be doing and what I don't want to and thus won't do.

And in another situation, a public figure replying to a journalist (on a press conference): 

- Evo ja ću da odgovorim/odgovoriti na vaše pitanje.

The first version says like he has the will to answer the journalist's question. The second says he's certain that his reply is going to be satisfactory.

How about you, what do you think? I can't be the only one feeling these differences?


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## LilithE

I've been reading those phrases for a while now trying to feel any difference. I even tried to pronounce them aloud. I didn't get any result except feeling a bit silly. 

I had no idea there is some difference in meaning. I obviously don't live in the right region of Croatia to feel that difference. I didn't even think it was a regional thing but after reading Duya's post I am not so sure. I am not that familiar with all Croatian dialects to know if there are some parts where _Ne želim da idem_ is a quite natural way to say that. _Ne želim ići_ sounds perfectly natural where I live. It has nothing to do with avoiding certain constructions or giving them a certain 'reputation'. I've just never heard it used here (both before and after the 90s).

Both phrases sound same to me. The speaker is both willing and competent (or more likely, as you said, _certain that his reply is going to be satisfactory_) to answer the question. 
That public figure could also say _Evo, ja ću pokušati odgovoriti na vaše pitanje_ to avoid sounding too 'bold'.


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