# אותך - otach / otcha



## possibilities

hello again,

sorry to post another question so quickly, but i'm really quite boggled by this as well and am unable to find any help on the net. what is the difference between "hu / hee" and "otcha / otach?" does hebrew use cases, and the "you" form changes when it's used as the direct object and switches to "otcha / otach?" or is this an exception? why do we say "ani ohevet otcha," and not "ani ohevet hu?"

thanks so much--your help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## ks20495

It sounds like you're getting a little ahead of yourself with your Hebrew study...There are a few things that we need to parse out.

"הוא" and "היא" are nominative pronouns. That means they function as the subject in a sentence. They translate directly to "he" and "she."

"אותךָ" (otcha) and "אותךְ" (otach) are also pronouns. But, they indicate a direct object. אותךָ and אותךְ, also, are second person, meaning they correspond to the nominative pronouns אתה (ata, masculine singular you) and את (at, feminine singular you). 

Regardless, the reason why we say "ani ohevet otcha" and not "ani ovevet ata" is similar to the reason that we say "I love him" and not "I love he." (Of course, in the case of the second person, English uses only one form: you.) The difference is that - whereas in English the object pronouns (me, him, her, them...) are used to indicate either a direct or indirect object - in Hebrew, the word את (et) and its conjugations are used only to indicate a direct object.

Does that make sense to you?

Just like English, the only words in Hebrew that change according to case are pronouns.


----------



## possibilities

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I understand completely as I speak Russian, which uses cases extensively. The thing is that I have my own way of approaching a language. Upon encountering something I don't understand, I try to research it and find out more (unless it's overly complex). I don't like to memorize sentences (e.g, "I love you") without understanding the grammar behind it, especially as in this instance, it seems that the grammar usage is analogous to Russian. I was trying to find some sort of chart that would incline the pronouns depending on what role the pronoun serves in a sentence, but there is, unfortunately, no information about this available online.


----------



## ks20495

Part of the reason for that is that they don't fit 100% neatly into pronouns as we define them in Western European languages. 

את is actually a preposition that is placed before any definite direct object. "Otcha" is the product of "et" + "ata". 

Prepositions (including, of course, את) conjugate like nouns. However, some prepositions conjugate like singular nouns and some like plural nouns. (For the most part, it's not that hard to remember most one you get used to hearing them.) 

(Also, just a note, "et" has a little extra change, as you may have noticed: When conjugated in most forms, it becomes "-אות (ot-)" instead of "et". There isn't really a grammatical explanation for that specific change in pronunciation.)


----------



## possibilities

thank you for your input. this is very helpful!


----------



## Flaminius

To fully decline the preposition et:
SINGULAR (all persons but the first have masculine and feminine forms)
1. oti
2. otkha, otakh
3. oto, ota

PLURAL
1. otanu
2. etkhem, etkhen
3. otam, otan


----------



## origumi

possibilities said:


> I understand completely as I speak Russian, which uses cases extensively.


To make it clear: Hebrew does NOT have a case system. Sometimes, as in the examples above, it looks like cases. Linguists may even regards it as the very beginning of case system development. However, these different forms can be explained regardless of cases.


----------



## possibilities

thanks for your help, everyone!


----------



## Kaleani

possibilities said:


> Yes, that makes perfect sense. I understand completely as I speak Russian, which uses cases extensively. The thing is that I have my own way of approaching a language. Upon encountering something I don't understand, I try to research it and find out more (unless it's overly complex). I don't like to memorize sentences (e.g, "I love you") without understanding the grammar behind it, especially as in this instance, it seems that the grammar usage is analogous to Russian. I was trying to find some sort of chart that would incline the pronouns depending on what role the pronoun serves in a sentence, but there is, unfortunately, no information about this available online.


thanks i had the same question and like you, i like to fully be able to understand the construction of whatever language i am speaking.  I used to think Hebrew and Russian were difficult until i started working with the languages, now i think they are probably more logical and less difficult than French, i have had so many people asked me to explain some of the complex French grammatical forms and i often find myself unable to do so.  And French is my native language.


----------

