# Changing Your Faith



## Etcetera

Ciàu,

People have been changing their religious beliefs since times immemorial, and I'm sure everyone would remember at least several persons who changed their faith at some point, for various reasons.

My question is, how was it viewed in your culture some 300 years ago, 100 years ago, 30 years ago - and how it is viewed nowadays? 

Suppose a person who was brought up a Protestant would become a Roman Catholic. What would the reactions of their relatives, friends, colleagues be then?

And what if a Protestant would express a wish to become a Muslim? Or a Judaist?

And if a known atheist would convert to Catholicism?


I, for my part, was brought up an Orthodox - in Russia, a country with quite strong Orthodox traditions, somewhat weakened by the Soviet regime. My upbringing was rather generally Christian than Orthodox one, though, so, when I grew up, I discovered that my views are much closer to Catholicism. And, quite naturally, I am now on my way to becoming a Roman Catholic. I don't see it as changing my faith, though: I remain a Christian, and interdenominational differences between Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity matters much less for me than all that Roman Catholics and Orthodoxes have in common (some 5 and 95%, respectively).

It doesn't cause much joy in my Mum, of course. But my friends' reaction was really easy: as I made my choice fully consciously and with deep reasons, even those who disagree with it respect it. But I have an impression, based on what is written about Catholics in newspapers, that most people in Russia wouldn't approve of my converting to Catholicism. 

I know of one Orthodox-turned-Muslim: a TV reporter, one of the authors of a programme about Islam. I think it was seen as something really exotic.

I'm looking forward for your opinions.


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## mirx

A very interesting topic indeed.

In México 300 hundred years ago people who were openly "not Catholic" were persecuted and then prosecuted by the Spanish Inquisition through their Mexican Inquisition in México. They were accused of heresy and many people were burnt alive.

In some instances native American indians were not considered human and thus were exempted from these forms of punishment, but for the most part their temples were destroyed, their relics taken away, and their brains washed through evangelization (_forgive me here if someone finds this offensive_). 

I don't know about 100 years ago but by then the country was officially religiousless and people had the "legal" option to decide against Catholisism. Societal pressures made it difficult though.

Nowadays México is -as far as I am concerned- the second country with the highest index of Catholic population, about 90% percent of people declare themselves as Roman Catholics, but only about half of this figure considere themselves practicing catholics.

*The view of society on this is that, it doesn't matter what religion you profess as long as you stay christian and believe in God (the one known for christians) and Jesus Christ. *

Atheism is viewed as a very bad thing, and most people CANT understand how it could be possible for someone not to believe in God.

One of my aunts became or converted to a Jehova Witness. She is usually talked about among family members but only to list the things she doesn't do anymore and that are essential for the rest, drinking and dancing some of them. Other issues like blood transfusions and machismo are also sometimes linked with some religions, so again, the religion in question sometimes is seen as a bunch of rules that limit the freedom of the individual. Strangely enough, these same people don't question celibacy or the impediments for women to be priests.


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## sokol

The Austrian (Habsburg) Empire (later Austro-Hungarian Empire) was distinctly Catholic - and there was prosecution of Non-Catholics at some points of history. So a change of faith was not that easy some centuries ago, except from other religions to Roman Catholic (e. g. Protestants and Jews converting - these being the majority of changes in faith in historical times). I can't certainly tell for sure if a change of faith was appreciated, but I would say that a 300 years ago it did raise suspicion, even when one converted to Catholicism (and even more so if one converted to another religion).

As for 100 years ago, I'd refer to the view of the grandparents and great-grandparents generation: changes of faith they did not appreciate, and in this case it was mostly changes away from Catholicism (as Austria was predominantly Catholic at the time). And while a change to Protestantism grudgingly was accepted changes to Non-Christian religions or factions considered as sects rather than religions (or Atheism) were interpreted as outrageous.
There was only one period when things were different for a time: during the Nazi era quite some people taking over any official function in the regime (or even more fundamental, simple teachers and mayors of villages) turned Atheist to show their loyalty to the regime. (Many of them again joined the church after the war.) These cases were seen as what they obviously were.

Now for my generation changes of faith are seen a little bit more relaxed but still many would think it is strange if a Christian becomes a Muslim or a Jew (or a Yehovah or even something more exotic). But changes between several Christian beliefs aren't frowned upon any more - by the younger generation -, no matter in what direction they happen.


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## Outsider

What *Mirx* wrote above about Mexico made me smile, because it has some similarities with my experience in Portugal. I have an uncle who became a Jehovah's Witness. Even though my grandfather was a rather traditional and devout Catholic, I never noticed any rejection or conflict towards my uncle, neither from my him nor from the rest of the family, who remained Catholic. I never even saw them discuss the matter. I suppose it's possible that there was some conflict I missed before I was born or when I was still too young to notice (this did happen over 30 years ago, give or take a few). But, if there was one, my grandfather eventually made his peace with my uncle's decision.

As for 300 years ago and 100 years ago, all I can do is guess based on what I know from history. 300 years ago would be the 1700s. Portugal was still under the tight control of the Catholic Church through the Inquisition, and I'm sure that all sorts of unpleasant things happened to those who were not Catholic or, Lord forbid, so much as suggested they might prefer to be something else.

About 100 years ago, Portugal was going through a phase of anticlericalism. But although the Catholic Church no longer enjoyed the same respect or had the same power as before, the country remained overwhelmingly Catholic, and conversions to other religions might well be frowned upon socially, though they were no longer forbidden. Other religions had been legally accepted again (since the early 1900s, I think), but there were very few non-Catholics living in the country.

Generally, nowadays, I would say that religious conversion (and atheism) are things that people don't talk about much, or pay much attention to, around here.


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## palomnik

In the USA there are two tendencies that work at cross-purposes to each other; Americans are, on the whole, religious people in the sense that membership in a denomination is important to many people.  Working against that at times is a tendency in American life to assimilate.  

Most American Protestants would see nothing particularly objectionable in switching from one Protestant denomination to another, although some may look askance at leaving a highly Bible-based church (such as Baptists) to a more "high church" tradition (such as Episcopalians/Anglicans).  Converting to Catholicism is another thing, though, and many Protestants have a hard time accepting Catholics as "Christians" as they understand it.

Catholics, on the other hand, are much more likely to drop religion altogether than convert to another Christian sect.  Traditionally, the Catholic Church in the United States maintained a strict system of education for Catholic children, and this formed the mentality of Catholics as they grew older.  Since the Vatican II reforms Catholicism doesn't look as unique as it used to, and this has probably increased the number of converts to other churches, usually in protest to Catholicism's conservative stance on a lot of issues.

There are a surprising number of conversions to Judaism among Christians, surprising in the sense that Jews do not proselytize and sometimes seem to discourage conversion.  A lot of this comes from intermarriage, but can also arise from an admiration of Israel - which creates further problems, since the Israeli government does not recognize conversions unless the conversion is attested to by an Orthodox rabbi in good standing with the Israeli rabbinate.

Most Jews of my acquaintance here resemble Catholics in that they would rather give up religion altogether than convert to another religion.  American Judaism, of course, has its own denominations, from Orthodoxy to Liberal Judaism, so one can choose the level of involvement desired.

Conversion to Islam has increased in the past few years, primarily but not exclusively among black Americans.  Among the rest of the population it is an uncommon but not unknown thing, mainly found among followers of the _philosophia perrenis _school of religious belief.

As for myself, I was raised as a Catholic but converted to Russian Orthodoxy thirty years ago.  While some people find that a bit strange, nobody has given me any grief about it - not even American Catholics, who largely believe that Orthodoxy is just like Catholicism, except that Orthodoxy doesn't accept the Pope.  Orthodox, of course, don't see it that way at all.


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## Adolfo Afogutu

Uruguay has been a secular republic almost since its foundation in 1825. Civil marriage was recognized in 1837; divorce was legalized and religious education was banned from public schools in 1907.  A history that is night and day when it is compared to the role that religion has had in South America. We are proud of it as we regard secularization as a tolerant way of living. Generally speaking, we don’t put other people’s religion down. If someone desires to convert himself, or he becomes an agnostic or even a complete atheist, it is likely that nobody will ask him anything. 

Ciao.

A.A.


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## alexacohen

Hello Etcetera

Most of what Mirx has stated about Mexico is true of Spain too. 

300 years ago if someone was found practising the Muslim or the Jewish religions s/he was bound to be expelled from the country (best option) as a foreigner, because true Spaniards were, by definition, faithful Roman Catholics. 

Former Jews or Muslims who had converted into Catholicism (or whose ancestors had converted in a remote past) were viewed with suspicion and despised. They were "cristianos nuevos", "marranos". Their blood was stained. The "marranos" were specially hated because Jews were considered to have killed God. A Jew or a descendant of Jews was more apt to be burned at the stake than anyone else.
Of course, converting from Catholicism into any other religion was unthinkable.

During Franco régime the country was meant to be uniformly Roman Catholic. Jews, Muslims, J*h*v*h witnesses, atheists and the rest were heathens - and they should convert to the true faith or burn in Hell instead of at the stake, but burn they would.  

Nowadays the inhabitants of villages and very small towns are bound to be Roman Catholics, even if sometimes it is just more a tradition than a true faith. 
In a big city there may be people of any creed and religion, though Hare Khrishnas dressed in orange tunics and sandals will attract weird stares. Specially in winter.

As for your last question, I imagine true faithful RC parents would be deeply hurt if their son or daughter decides to convert to the Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist etc. faith, but so would any devout Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist family if one of his members decides to convert to RC. There are not many Orthodox people in Spain.

Scientology and the like are considered sects, not religions.


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## anothersmith

I've known a number of Christians who coverted to Judaism.  All were women marrying Jewish men, and wanting to follow Jewish tradition in raising their children.  It happened in my own family, and my grandmother - a Christian evangelist - never objected or said anything negative about it.

I've never personally met anyone who has converted to Islam, but, among my friends and family, famous converts - like musicians Richard Thompson and Cat Stephens - were viewed with simple curiousity.  Unfortunately, 9/11 happened, and now everything has changed here.


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## Etcetera

alexacohen said:


> Also the Church of the Saints of the Last Days (if the name is not accurate please someone correct me, I don't remember it very well). Those are usually called  Mormons (I am not sure if this name is correctly applied; all I can say is they are called so in Spain).


The Church of the Latter-Days Saints, if I'm not mistaken.

I remember that in one of our Geography lessons at school, when we were talking about different religions, our teacher mentioned that she had converted from Orthodoxy to that Church - and that she believes it doesn't really matter what church you belong to, because it's your personal faith that matters. 

I think some of us were quite surprised by the fact that she was a member of that church, but no one expressed any discontent or anything.


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## tvdxer

Changing one´s religion really isn´t a big deal among young people in this country.  It probably happens quite often.  And a lot of teenagers go through an atheist or agnostic stage, from which I think most recover by their 20s.  

In this part of the country, people are very often religious (in the sense that they go to church weekly, pray, etc.), usually Catholic or Lutheran, but they tend not to pay attention to what religion other people have.


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## blue_jewel

I'd say changing religion is not really changing your faith, only in doctrines. Here in my country, changing your religion is no longer a big thing especially if that religion can make you a better person. I'm a Roman Catholic now and though I'm attending some religions' fellowhips or studying other religions' doctrines but changing my religion is not a thing i want to consider.


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## Sepia

It is not my impression that neither here in Germany nor in Scandinavia people generally have a problem with people changing religions. It is just that some of the ones that do tend to be "very enthusiastic" about it and that is to most people I know an absolute pain in the (bodypart that the mods would delete).


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## Mate

*Moderator note: *


Please keep the discussion focused on the main questions posted in #1. 


Also, you are all kindly invited to re-read our guidelines, especially this part:

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That includes Mormon, Scientology, The Church of the Latter-Days Saints, Jehovah Witnesses, etc.


Thank you for your understanding.


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## danielfranco

When I was growing up in Mexico you could choose any religion you'd like, as long as it was Roman Catholic. After that, you could even could change your religion as much as you'd like: You could be either a Catholic, or a lapsed Catholic.
In Texas, the situation was similar. Just read the above paragraph and substitute the words "Roman Catholic" for "Southern Baptist".

Anyway, fortunately, unfortunately, or indifferently, I'm not sure which, I was part of a family that had been Protestant for over a hundred years already. Well, they were Presbyterian, which is kind of, like, Catholic-lite, but Protestant anyway. And, like many teenagers in Mexico or the USA, I also went through an agnostic/atheistic phase. I think I might "recover" (is it an illness?) from it any moment now.

D


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## la zarzamora

Adolfo Afogutu said:


> Uruguay has been a secular republic almost since its foundation in 1825. Civil marriage was recognized in 1837; divorce was legalized and religious education was banned from public schools in 1907. A history that is night and day when it is compared to the role that religion has had in South America. We are proud of it as we regard secularization as a tolerant way of living. Generally speaking, we don’t put other people’s religion down. If someone desires to convert himself, or he becomes an agnostic or even a complete atheist, it is likely that nobody will ask him anything.
> 
> Ciao.
> 
> A.A.


 
90 % of people in Uruguay are Catholics, those laws were a political move which had nothing whatsoever to do with people or their beliefs.


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## avershin

I guess that the general opinion (which I share) of the posters above is that nowadays modern Christians are not viewed askance when they convert into another religion, whether another Christian denomination or some other monotheistic religion or even some exotic sect. I guess that this tendency is worldwide spread and I dare disagree with the first poster that in Russia the responsibilty rests with the Communist rule, altough it did contribute to the decline of the Orthodox Church. I believe that the key factor is that Christians generally are falling away from their faith trading it for the loaves and fishes. As the Bible runs it "Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Keep in mind that the global growing Muslim population does not really tend either to convert into other religions or merely to drop the religion as such. Russia is a poster child of the tendency with its approximately twenty million Muslim population share, which is constantly expanding. The rest of Russians traditionally are deemed atheists or Orthodoxes, although spiritual life of most of them is limited to a token visit to a local church for the Christmas and the Easter. We have congregations of Buddhists too.


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## Lugubert

According to the Swedish constitution of 1686, citizens had to confess to the Lutheran creed. Apostates were exiled. A law of 1726 disallowed any religious meetings led by non-clergy. This law was abolished in 1858. In 1735, a law was passed that made punishable not only spreading of “false doctrines”, but even suspicions of such activities. The 1809 constitution sounds like freedom of religion was granted, but for Swedish citizens, it still meant the Lutheran way. Only as late as 1860, it became possible to leave the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Sweden (CoS) - but only if you proved that you enrolled in a religious community that was recognized by the Government! A law granting full freedom of religion had to wait until 1951.
 
It’s hard to tell what attitudes to faith switching are. Swedes don’t discuss religion. In my family, which might not be typical, I had mother attest my signature on my application for leaving the CoS. She didn’t even comment. My sister the biology teacher asked me, “Why did it take so long for you?”


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## BAS24

I live in what is widely known as "The Bible Belt" of the United States. We have more churches than we do places to shop! (Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but there is a different church every mile or so.)  The overwhelming majority of people are members of some Protestant denomination. They may not have darkened the door of a church in 50 years, but they still profess allegiance to some group. 


As recent as 15 years ago, it would have caused ripples in families and churches if someone changed religious affiliations from one Protestant denomination to another (ex: changing from being a Baptist to a Methodist). Converting to Catholicism would be unheard of. Now, however, there are not such stark differences or strong opinions about one denomination or another. Converting to Catholicism is still unpopular.

Unlike many areas of the country, the "agnostic or atheistic stage" for young people is very rare. Out of the high-school of 1,200 I attended, you could count on one hand the number of people who claimed to be agnostic or atheist. At the University the numbers increased considerably but agnostics and atheists were the minority.

Christians converting to another religion, such as Islam, Judaism, or Budhism wouldn't be understood at all.


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## mirx

BAS24 said:


> Unlike many areas of the country, the "agnostic or atheistic stage" for young people is very rare. Out of the high-school of 1,200 I attended, you could count on one hand *the number of people who claimed to be agnostic or atheist.* .


 

This a matter for another thread, but... exactly because of the prejudices associated with atheism most people with this (non) beliefs don't make their stance known.

You did speak of an area, is this part of the USA more conservative than other parts? In what states or part of states does this take place?

Your profile sayas Mississippi, is this the place you are talking about?

Thanks.


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## BAS24

I live in Tennessee, which is part of the South Eastern United States. This cultural difference from the rest of the U.S. can be found in Kentucky, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, and maybe more. These are the states I know best, with Tennessee being my home. These areas are much more conservative and the majority of the population are what would be considered "fundamentalist christians".

It may be that there are more agnostics and atheists than are open about their beliefs (or lack there of) but most of them are probably part of a Baptist youth group too. Remember, I am speaking in generalities based on my experience. It would be great if someone else from this region could give us their observations...


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## Grop

Here in France many people are atheist (or agnostics, or extremely moderate Catholics who only go to church when marrying). I think most conversions are likely to be seen as non-events (except maybe toward Islam, which is not well perceived by everyone - general ignorance about every religion doesn't help).

Well, we generally don't talk and don't know about people's religion. "Oh, so you are religious? Or is it to please your parents?" is a very possible remark when people state they will marry or baptise* their child at church.

* There are now non-religious baptisms where children are given godparents before a civil official - and yes it sounds (a bit) less silly in French.


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## jinti

mirx said:


> You did speak of an area, is this part of the USA more conservative than other parts? In what states or part of states does this take place?


 
Wikipedia has a short little article about the US "Bible Belt" and a map that shows it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt

I'm not from that area and have never lived there. My own experiences in Pennsylvania and New York City have been that movement among various Christian sects or Jewish sects, etc. is common, while movement between the major religions (a Christian converting to Judaism, for example) is much rarer but certainly not unknown.

My own family has several people who changed from Catholicism to Quakerism or vice versa. I'm one of them. It's not considered odd by anyone in the family because we are very familiar and comfortable with both religions.  It's not considered odd by Quakers, either.

At my Quaker meeting, for example, the majority of the members were not raised Quaker, and many of our visitors are seeking a religion different from their own backgrounds as well. One man was raised Mennonite but became Buddhist and comes to Quaker meetings now and then. Another was raised Jewish but became a Conservative Quaker (Christian). Another who is Jewish added Quakerism, rather than substituting it for Judaism. Another is the daughter of a Pentecostal pastor.  The wife of someone at another meeting used to be some sort of Christian (I forget what denomination), became a Conservative Quaker, and is now a Sephardic Jew. The list goes on and on.

Other visitors aren't looking to change religions but want to talk to us about their spiritual journeys, which often include more than one religion, mostly Christian and Buddhist. Lately, we've also had the pastor of a local Korean Christian & Missionary Alliance church visiting with us on Sundays before ministering to his congregation.  I don't think he's going to become a Quaker , but it's a nice opportunity to chat about our beliefs.

So I don't see changing one's faith or engaging with other faiths as at all unusual around here... although not all families are equally pleased about it.


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## gurseal

I am also from the Southeast. My protestant parents, one of whom has a Methodist minister for a father, sent me to schools operated by Lutheran and then Catholic churches; however, when at age 8 I asked permission to convert to the Catholic faith to fit in, the answer was no. Did my parents explain to me why not? Probably. I don't remember and never again asked about it since as an older child I figured it out.  Now, changing faiths isn't a priority.


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## Polaquita

Poland is considered an ultra conservative Catholic country. Maybe it is more religious than other European countries, but the question is if being religious (regular visit to church, behaving well etc). is rather a part of culture/customs than someone's personal decision. 

Practically all of my friends/family/relatives are Roman Catholics (by being baptised and brought up so) however people at some age become consious and some consider themselves catholics but not religious. I would say this is most of the society. Very few people are not baptised by parents, and few decide to become atheist.

There is a small number of people of other religions, and those who are, is rather a metter of history/family tradition than they own choice. Before the IIWW there were Germans, Jewish people, Russians, Ukrainians living in Poland. There were protestant churges, synagogues, orthodox churches. Some of them still are, but are visited by few people. We are no longer a multinational society. As far as I know by my grand-dad, he was living in a harmony with his German and Jewish friends.

I cannot say 300 hundred years ago, however then the social classes were much stronger, and being a social class/family/religion was very much connected. You simply couldn't leave it. 100 years ago probably more possible, however scandalous. Nowadays religion is less important in people's life, or rather: does not define their place in society. So such changes are easier. I know some persons who no longer visit church but I don't know anyone who totally changed their faith. (OK my aunt became protestant I think because she married a German guy). 

I would say conversions appear when person brought up as catholic but finally "non-religious" finds a necesity to live their life in a religious way. I would say this happens quite often. And I would also say that people who are deeply religious can be loughed at sometimes, or at least not welcome by everyone / considered weird.


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## charisma_classic

I am from Indiana and was raised in a non-religious household. We celebrated every holiday my mother was aware of that had non-religious aspects.  We had a tree for Christmas, eggs for Easter, candles fo Hanukah, fireworks for Solstice.  (I realize this doesn't cover a vast number of religions, but this was pretty ecclectic among the neighbors.)

As an adult, I am converting to Judaism as I felt a need to find a spiritual "home" and that was the one that made the most sense to me. While I am certainly a minority in Indianapolis, I actually feel like I have gained assimilation in a sense, since I now belong to a group of other believers.


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## ernest_

I live in Catalonia and somebody changing his faith would probably be seen here with either enthusiasm or disappointment depending on whether the one in question has converted to your faith or has abandoned it. I count atheism as "faith" for the sake of the argument. However, since religion is losing ground here, not many people have a faith at all, so there are not many conversions, religious wise. But politically it is pretty common, and as a matter of fact some notorious conservative right-wing politicians are well known to have been communists in the past, and it's not like they deny it or people make a fuss of it.


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## berndf

In Germany religious beliefs are generally considered very personal and no one (well, almost) would dare to interfere. This tolerance extends to atheists as well.

This does not mean that this tolerance is always heartfelt but it is generally regarded as politically incorrect to voice any opinion on other people's decisions concerning their religious affiliations.

An exception would be, if you converted to a religion or sect which is regarded as intrinsically intolerant to other beliefs and life-styles. This would include Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses. As of recent, some people would include Islam as well.


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## Chazzwozzer

I guess it depends. It's hard to generalize. I know many liberal families and also many conservative families in Turkey, but I think the most common view is that religious belief is a personal issue and nobody should interfere.

My friends, family and some teachers know that I'm an agnostic and all of them seem to have nothing against it. At home, I sometimes discuss with my dad, whose belief is somewhere between _secular Islam_ and _deism_, about the existence of God. It's something I wouldn't discuss with some friends of mine, for example. They simply reject to discuss and think you should just believe without questioning.

When I told my friends that I no longer believed in any religion, they were all OK with that. When my family found it out, they said "Well, you don't tell us what to believe, and we won't tell you what to believe. Deal?".

So it varies from person to person.


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## libero30

In typically Indian families (Sikh and Hindu) there is a BIG taboo about converting to Islam or even marrying a Muslim which I think goes back to the end of the Mughal empire. Maybe part of the reason is that Sikhs and Hindus don't convert people to their own religion so converting to another one is seen differently.


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## mirx

libero30 said:


> In typically Indian families (Sikh and Hindu) there is a BIG taboo about converting to Islam or even marrying a Muslim which I think goes back to the end of the Mughal empire. Maybe part of the reason is that Sikhs and Hindus don't convert people to their own religion so converting to another one is seen differently.


 
And what about converting to other religions?


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## libero30

It's not as big a deal to convert to Christianity but still more so than in Europe.


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## Martina.M

I'll add some things to what Alexa wrote about Spain.

I think people here (well, there, I'm in Italy now) don't really change religion, generally. I know people who have converted to RC and people who have lost their faith. But the other religions - I talk from what I see, don't know what statistics say - are mostly practiced by immigrants who have taken their faith with them when going to Spain.

I mean, there are Muslims, but most of them come from Muslim countries or so did their parents; the same with Ortodoxes from Eastern countries. Protestants do not have a very big presence here.

People in Spain have a Catholic culture background, but most of them are not believers. I, for instance, consider myself one and when I say my opinion supporting what the Church says (what is the normal thing for a believer of any faith, I guess) people of my age generally do an effort to tollerate me. What means that generally faith is not fundamental for most of the people in Spain. Most of those who take it seriously come from Catholic movements founded during this century.


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## SrGilberto

> Suppose a person who was brought up a Protestant would become a Roman Catholic. What would the reactions of their relatives, friends, colleagues be then?



Etcetera,
Hi,  I just found this forum and I read the first (initial) message by you.  I don't know if my perspective is unique but, we as evangelical Christians, should understand that once we come to Christ by faith, we have been eternally saved and will not lose that salvation.  We are guaranteed that we will go to heaven.  Once you are born a child of God by recieving Christ, you can not be unborn.  You may turn loose of (or turn your back on) Christ by joining another religion but He doesn't turn loose of you.  You still can not be "un-born" from the family of God.  So, my perspective is that if a person ever accepted Christ as savior they are born into the family of God and are guaranteed to be admitted into heaven.  So I would be saddened by a brother or sister choosing to leave the Christian faith but I know they will be with me in heaven.  Other religions seem to disown relatives for leaving the faith, but that is not necessary in the Christian faith (though it is sad).  My perspective is this:  If a person leaves Christianity, they must not have fully understood it.

May God bless,
SrGilberto


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## mirx

SrGilberto said:


> My perspective is this: If a person leaves Christianity, they must not have fully understood it.
> SrGilberto


 
Interesting perpective. Do you believe this is a generalized perception of the evangelical christians or is it just your personal one?

It'll be most interesting to know if this is a widespread perspective in other christian denominations.

You also mentioned being born in a (religious) family, does this include all other christian denominations or is it reserved for the evangelical one?


Thanks very much.


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## Outsider

Here's a previous discussion with a slight connection to this one.


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## berndf

In the culture I am coming from, most people seriously believing in Christianity would probably agree with SrGilberto but wouldn't voice their opinion unless explicitly invited to do so.


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## SrGilberto

Mirx,

This is a predominant view of evangelical Christians that hold to the "free grace" theology.  I belong to a bible church (which is non-denominational).  Not all Christian denominations believe in "sola fide" (greek for "faith alone" [with regard to eternal salvation]) so some christian denominations do not believe in eternal security.  But we evangelicals that hold to the "free grace" theology believe that a christian (someone who has been born into the family of God by receiving Christ as savior), will go to heaven whether they think they are eteranally secure or not.

God bless,
SrGilberto


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## berndf

This is hard at the edge of going off-topic but I think it is still within limit: In my understanding of _sola fide_, a necessary and sufficient condition for salvation is "receiving Christ as saviour", as you put it. I cannot see how this could be compatible with not thinking that you are "eternally secure".

Consequently, "falling from the faith" would be the worst thing a Christian could do for this own sake.

This is at least how I interpret the theological position of most American Christian communities which call themselves "evangelical" while most European Protestants today take a softer view regarding "receiving Christ as saviour" as a sufficient but not as a necessary condition for salvation.


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## Mate

*Moderator note:*


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> WordReference is about language.
> WordReference welcomes members from all cultural backgrounds and belief systems – including religious faithful, non-religious believers in a higher power, agnostics, atheists, and others.
> This is not a forum for the promotion of religious beliefs. Posts that attempt to denigrate others’ points of view or lifestyle, promote one faith as “the only truth”, or attempt in any way to proselytize will be removed..."



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