# Swedish: Stockholm Pronunciation of sj: sh or kh??



## kaaawkaw

I want to learn, obviously, the accent/pronunciation of your average Stockholmer. My question goes to those like: sj, skj, skå, and the rest. Are they sh or kh sounds?


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## MattiasNYC

I don't understand your question. Can you give specific examples of words whose pronunciation you don't know?


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## kaaawkaw

MattiasNYC said:


> I don't understand your question. Can you give specific examples of words whose pronunciation you don't know?



Well, as far as I got it, there is the South pronunciation and the North one. And they pronounce these combinations, that would be either /sh/ or /kh/ like. Examples of combinations are: sj, skj, skå, etc. I just want to understand which way it's done in _Stockholm_ because my textbook says it's more of /sh/ sound (it's a self-study textbook.) If you want word examples: skyddar, sköldpadda, skägg, skål, sjuk, skjorta, stjäl, charmig, skicka.

< In a video, someone > talks about _sj, skj, stj_ combinations and their usage in South and North Sweden, but I still don't get to which one Stockholm belongs to. I thought it was South, therefore /kh/ but my textbook uses /sh/ and says it's teaching the Stockholm version. Thus the confusion.

< Unapproved video removed.  Cagey, moderator. > 

If you could clear it up for me, that'd be so lovely!


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## Red Arrow

I am not an expert, but I think your textbook is based on an older standard.
I think you have to look at the stressed vowel. Everything before it is /kh/ and everything after it is /sh/. (German loanwords with sch are /sh/ though)

I think this is how most modern speakers say it, but maybe older people still use the older standard? (/sh/ for everything)


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## Svenke

See
Sj-sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sj-ljudet – Wikipedia

It's complicated ...
But the typical Swedish sj-sound is quite different from the English (or Norwegian, for that sake) sh-sound.


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## AutumnOwl

kaaawkaw said:


> If you want word examples: skyddar, sköldpadda, skägg, _skål_, sjuk, skjorta, stjäl, charmig, skicka.


The word skål isn't pronounced with a sj-sound (at least not when you are sober), it's only in front of the soft vowels (e, i, y, ä, ö) the combination sk- gives the sj-sound, not in front of the hard vowels (a, o, u, å), in front of these vowels sk- is pronounced as s+k.

The northern pronunciation of the sj-sound differentiates in the Norrland dialects, Norrland dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , and Stockholm belongs to the south.


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## kaaawkaw

AutumnOwl said:


> The word skål isn't pronounced with a sj-sound (at least not when you are sober), it's only in front of the soft vowels (e, i, y, ä, ö) the combination sk- gives the sj-sound, not in front of the hard vowels (a, o, u, å), in front of these vowels sk- is pronounced as s+k.
> 
> The northern pronunciation of the sj-sound differentiates in the Norrland dialects, Norrland dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , and Stockholm belongs to the south.




Would you say this pronunciation guide is correct for Stockholm then? Introduction to Swedish - A guide to pronounciation

I'm so confused with Swedish dialects it prevents me from learning the actual language. I appreciate your help!


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## cocuyo

The pronunciation of sj- sound has several erroneous statements in the list. In almost all instances both pronunciations are possible. 

Only in the case of -rs would the retroflex s be prevalent, except in the most southern dialects, where both letters are pronounced separately. (Stockholm is not that far south.)


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## MattiasNYC

cocuyo said:


> The pronunciation of sj- sound has several erroneous statements in the list. In almost all instances both pronunciations are possible.



It would be good for people if you could list the ones that are incorrect. The only thing I found that was questionable was: _"One important exception is ‘mä´nniska’ [human being], where ‘sk’ is pronounced as a sj sound, in spite of the following hard vowel" _That sentence makes it seem as if "sj" is the only possible pronunciation, where in fact both are possible.



kaaawkaw said:


> Would you say this pronunciation guide is correct for Stockholm then? Introduction to Swedish - A guide to pronounciation


http://www2.hhs.se/isa/swedish/chap9.htm#sjsound

Not sure which is the more appropriate pronunciation for Stockholm to be honest. 



kaaawkaw said:


> I'm so confused with Swedish dialects it prevents me from learning the actual language. I appreciate your help!



"sj" sounds "cleaner" to me, but not necessarily better. To my ears it's almost a bit too "clean" in some cases. It sounds a bit more "posh", if you get my drift.

If I were you I'd probably not worry about it too much. I think you might be better off spending your energy on other things when learning the language. Picking either one you'll be understood without problem. I'd maybe pick whatever is easier to pronounce actually.


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## cocuyo

I am from Stockholm, and in Stockholm both pronounciations can be used.

As stated before, only in the case of -rs (as in fors, korsning etc) will there be a retroflex -s always in the Stockholm dialect, but in Scania and Blekinge, with their way of pronouncing r, they will pronounce both letters separately. There are also Northern Swedish and Finland Swedish dialects which pronounce r and s separately - also some that separate all letters in skjorta and stjärna.

In the part of Blekinge where I have lived, about ten miles North of Karlshamn, the sound was very harsh, more like German Ach-Laut or even Dutch pronunciation of G or CH. In Stockholm, it is more like the Spanish pronunciation of J.

So there is some variation in pronunciation of _sje-ljud_. You're pretty much on the safe side if always using the French variant as in Château, although to Scanian people it might sound a bit odd, and in Stockholm, it is a bit of sociolectal rather than dialectal - posh, upper class.


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## mexerica feliz

Even in the word *kanske *you can hear two different ways of pronouncing it:  kanhwe vs kanše.


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