# EA: 7a حــ / ha هــ (future marker)



## maghribiya

What's the difference between the "h" and "7" in egyptian dialect? For example "hansak" and "7ansak" or "haeesh" and "7aeesh", "haktib" and "7aktib" etc... i've seen both, and i'm kind of confused about them. Which is correct? And how do you use them?


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## Mahaodeh

Writing Arabic in Latin letters is tricky, some people use the h for both هـ and ح and some people use capital H or 7 for حاء.

Having said that, some words in EA and pronounced somewhere between the two, it's originally حاء but they soften it that it becomes close to هاء (as an example haktib and hansaak) so in these words even when using Arabic letters you can find some people using the هاء such as هانساك \ حانساك \ هكتب \ حكتب but for grass it's always حشيش because the حاء is clear.


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## F1Z

That's a difference between the Cairene and the Alexandrian pronunciation. The Cairene and people of other governorates use "ha" and many Alexandrians use "7a" to represent the auxiliary "will."



Mahaodeh said:


> but for grass it's always حشيش because the حاء is clear.


She meant حاعيش not حشيش


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## إسكندراني

F1Z said:


> That's a difference between the Cairene and the Alexandrian pronunciation. The Cairene and people of other governorates use "ha" and many Alexandrians use "7a" to represent the auxiliary "will."


I always used to think هـ was a mistake the فلاحين made. Then I started seeing it on billboards


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## maghribiya

F1Z said:


> That's a difference between the Cairene and the Alexandrian pronunciation. The Cairene and people of other governorates use "ha" and many Alexandrians use "7a" to represent the auxiliary "will."
> 
> 
> She meant حاعيش not حشيش


 
Yeah, I did mean 7a3ish  So you're saying that both are correct? I could say ha3ish and 7a3ish and still be understood?


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## i_guess_i_am_a_genius

Yes, 7 and h work for both, however keep in mind that some people use specifically 7, or specifically h, and some people alternate between the two, so learn to recognize both.


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## cherine

And there's a third future marker, not as commonly used as ح and هـ and it's the ع (but it's usually criticized, specially that it sounds heavy).
عشوفك، عكتب، عروح ... I think it's Sa3idi (Upper Egyptian), but I'm not sure.


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## akhooha

It seems to me that the use of [هـ] prefix is being more and more commonly used over the use of the [حـ] prefix in written representation of Egyptian colloquial. (Example: "I will see": "حاشوف" vs "هاشوف"). Is my perception correct, or have they always been existing side by side with pretty much equal frequency?
When I lived in Cairo in the early 80s, I think I may have heard just one or two people pronouncing it as [هـ], but now I hear it being used with greater frequency in colloquial sitcoms on TV, and on live interviews.
Is one's use of [هـ] or [حـ] any kind of an indicator of class, region, education, age, or some other category, or is it purely an individual phenomenon?
Also, are there any other instances where pronunciation shifts between [حـ] and [هـ]?
Thank you.


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## akhooha

Thank you Cherine, for moving my question into the previously existing thread which I hadn't known about.  I think you're right about the ع being sa3idi usage --- I recall hearing that a lot in Luxor.
From what others have said, there seems to be no clearly emerging pattern of حـ or هـ usage.  F1Z says that هـ is Cairene and that حـ is Alexandrian. إسكندراني (presumably Alexandrian) says he thought that هـ  was a mistake made  by فلاحين. And "i_guess_i_am_a_genius" (who identifies as Sa3idi) some people use one and some people use the other, and sometimes the same person uses both interchangeably.
Interestingly, إسكندراني also mentions (in 2011) that he started  seeing the هـ on billboards --- just as I had mentioned that it seemed to have become more common now in print representations than it had been back in the early 80s.  So, are we witnessing a linguistic change in progress? Is there really no correlation with region, class, sex, etc.?
P.S. Does anyone know the linguistic history of this future marker?


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## cherine

akhooha said:


> Thank you Cherine, for moving my question into the previously existing thread which I hadn't known about.


You're welcome. And you can always find older discussions if you follow the first rule of the forum "look for the answer first". 


> Interestingly, إسكندراني also mentions (in 2011) that he started seeing the هـ on billboards --- just as I had mentioned that it seemed to have become more common now in print representations than it had been back in the early 80s. So, are we witnessing a linguistic change in progress? Is there really no correlation with region, class, sex, etc.?


I'm not sure about this. Whenever I see it on billboards, I think "this must be a Cairene influence or something", because I still use, hear, read and write ح used everywhere. And I believe both ح and هـ are commonly used by all, so we can't say there's a correlation with region, class, education, sex or anything else.


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## KLAR08

Hello! I have a question regarding the future tense in Egyptian dialect because I recently bought a book for learning this dialect. It says on the book that you can form the future tense by changing the "ب" prefix for ح. However, it also mentions that you can use راح before the verb with the same conjugation as in MSA, e.g. he will do

هو راح يعمل

Nonetheless, I find the latter really weird since it seems so similar to the past form of "baru7".

Find attached a picture of what is on the book.


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## elroy

This is a future particle that can be _spelled_ either راح or رح, but it's _pronounced _"raḥ", with a short "a," so in speech it's never confused with the past-tense verb راح, which is pronounced "rāḥ", with a long "a".  (In writing, راح could be ambiguous -- راح يشتري تفاح could mean either "He's going to buy apples" [future] or "He went to buy apples" [past] -- although in practice context almost always makes the meaning clear).  The future particle راح/رح isn't derived from the past-tense verb راح but from the active verbal participle رايح.

It's used in Palestinian Arabic but I've never heard it in Egyptian Arabic and didn't think it was used in that dialect.  So either your book is wrong or this is a thing and I wasn't aware of it.  A speaker of Egyptian Arabic will have to tell us.

A few threads that may be of interest: 
All dialects: future markers غاد ، باش ، ح ، راح
PA: future tense
Levantine Arabic: I don't have money anymore, so I can't come to the cinema today


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## KLAR08

Thank you very much Mr. elroy. It's good to know that it is not incorrect in your dialect. Let's wait for native Egyptians to say if it is correct in Egyptian Arabic because I am trying to learn this one and would prefer not to confuse the different dialects that there are.


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## cherine

Can you give us the title of the book and the date it was written or published? I don't think I've heard anyone use راح/رح in EA and it sounds like some old usage.


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## KLAR08

This is the book I bought. It has some discrepancies in grammar, but all in all it is good to start getting involved so to speak in Egyptian Arabic. However, this pattern kinda threw me off, that's why I decided to come and ask you. Regarding vocabulary, I gather it is good.


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## cherine

Well, like I said, this راح/رح is not used commonly in modern Egyptian Arabic, not in Alexandria or Cairo anyway. So I suggest you stick with the ح/هـ to form the future verbs.


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## elroy

It looks like the book was published in 2010.


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## KLAR08

Thank you! it must be a mistake or... I don't know. Thank you for the comments!


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## WadiH

The حـ / هـ prefix is a vestige of a رايح < راح / رح.  So it shouldn't be surprising that the older form was present in Egyptian Arabic until relatively recently (and perhaps still exists in some areas).  Both رح and ح are used in Urban Hijazi dialects today.

The transition from ح to هـ is also common in many languages and dialects, and it parallels the gradual loss of emphatics in some urban dialects.  As for the Upper Egyptian عـ, that is just a voiced version of حـ, so again not an unusual development.


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## cherine

KLAR08 said:


> Thank you! it must be a mistake or... I don't know. Thank you for the comments!


You're welcome. But just to be clear, I'm not saying it is a mistake, just that I don't remember anyone around me (I live in Alexandria) or on tv (mostly Cairene dialect) use it. So it could very well be used in other parts of Egypt.


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## KLAR08

Ok, thank you for the clarification. Then, I will use "ح" or "ه" when referring to the future to avoid misunderstandings.


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