# hindi na Vs hindi pa



## Qcumber

Hello 
I know the difference between *ná *and *pá* and *hindî ná* and *hindî pá*.
1) Sumúlat siyá kay Pio. = She wrote to Pio.
2) Hindî siyá sumúlat kay Pio. = She didn’t write to Pio.
3) Sumúlat ná siyá kay Pio. = She has written to Pio.
4) Hindî ná siyá sumúlat kay Pio. = She hasn’t written to Pio yet.
5) Sumúsúlat pá siyá kay Pio. = She continues to write to Pio.
6) Hindî pá siyá sumúsúlat kay Pio. = She doesn’t continue to write to Pio.

I am puzzled by the use of *hindî ná* and *hindî pá* with *tapós* "finished".
Given this sentence:

7) *Tapós ná ang dúlà. *
= The play is over / finished.

What is the difference between *hindî ná* and *hindî pá* in its negation?

8) *Hindî ná tapós ang dúlà.* 
= The play is not finished.

9) *Hindî pá tapós ang dúlà.* 
= The play is not finished.


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> Hello
> I know the difference between *ná *and *pá* and *hindî ná* and *hindî pá*.
> 1) Sumúlat siyá kay Pio. = She wrote to Pio.
> 2) Hindî siyá sumúlat kay Pio. = She didn’t write to Pio.
> 3) Sumúlat ná siyá kay Pio. = She has *already* written to Pio.
> 4) Hindî ná siyá sumúlat kay Pio. = She hasn’t written to Pio yet. or She *still* hasn't written to Pio.
> 5) Sumúsúlat pá siyá kay Pio. = She continues to write to Pio. or She is *still* writing to Pio.
> 6) Hindî pá siyá sumúsúlat kay Pio. = She doesn’t continue to write to Pio.
> She is *still* not writing to Pio.
> 
> I am puzzled by the use of *hindî ná* and *hindî pá* with *tapós* "finished".
> Given this sentence:
> 
> 7) *Tapós ná ang dúlà. *
> = The play is over / finished. The play is *already* finished.
> 
> What is the difference between *hindî ná* and *hindî pá* in its negation?
> 
> 8) *Hindî ná tapós ang dúlà.*
> = The play is not finished.
> Adverb *na* doesn't work here. Perhaps, you are saying:
> Hinidi *natapos* ang dula. (The play was not finished.)
> 
> 9) *Hindî pá tapós ang dúlà.*
> = The play is not *yet* finished.



*pa = yet, still
na = already 
*
*Hindi na* can mean *not anymore* or *never*. 

*Hindi na* kita makikitang muli. 
I will not see you anymore. 
I will never see you again. 

*Hindi* ka *na* niya mahal/ *Hindi na* kita mahal. 
He doesn't love you anymore/ I don't love you anymore.

Your sentence #8 can be better phrased this way: 
*Hindi na* natapos ang dula. (past tense) 
I'm not sure how to translate that but I can give you scenarios: 
They mounted a play but for some reasons, it was not finished. Perhaps, some of the members backed out before it ended or they were forced to leave, etc. Is it correct to say that *the play did not finish anymore*? That's what it meant.


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## Qcumber

Thanks a lot FFrancis.
There must be some deep reason in the Tagalog language system to account for the fact that *ná* is accepted in:

4) *Hindî ná siyá sumúlat kay Pio.*
= She still hasn't written to Pio. [your translation]

but rejected in:

8) **Hindî ná tapós ang dúlà.*
= The play is not finished (yet).

although accepted if the adjective is replaced by a verbal form:

8') *Hindî ná nátápos ang dúlà.* [your suggestion]
= The play is not finished (yet).

I must confess I am still unable to figure it out.
In practice, though, I'll remember the standard expression is "*hindî pá tapós*".

P.S. I am afraid "The play did not finish anymore." sounds very odd in English. From your context, I'd expect: "The play was left unfinished."

Actually in the context of my sentence, a performance is taking place, and a spectator (the guest of a European diplomat in Japan) wants to leave. His host reminds him the play is not finished yet, suggesting the guest should stay until the end.


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> Thanks a lot FFrancis.
> There must be some deep reason in the Tagalog language system to account for the fact that *ná* is accepted in:
> 
> 4) *Hindî ná siyá sumúlat kay Pio.*
> = She still hasn't written to Pio. [your translation]
> Sorry, I think I made a mistake here. It should have been translated as:
> She *did not write* to Pio *anymore*.
> 
> but rejected in:
> 
> 8) **Hindî ná tapós ang dúlà.*
> = The play is not finished (yet).
> In this context, *tapos* is an adjective. In your sentence#8, it's like saying in English: _The play is not finished *already*_.
> 
> although accepted if the adjective is replaced by a verbal form:
> 
> 8') *Hindî ná nátápos ang dúlà.* [your suggestion]
> = The play is not finished (yet). The play was left unfinished. (Based on your correction below)
> Here, the context of the sentence is the play itself was not finished by the participants. As I have explained, there may be some problems why they decided not to finish the play (there might be an earthquake, fire or war suddenly broke out, etc)
> 
> I must confess I am still unable to figure it out.
> In practice, though, I'll remember the standard expression is "*hindî pá tapós*".
> 
> P.S. I am afraid "The play did not finish anymore." sounds very odd in English. From your context, I'd expect: "The play was left unfinished."
> Thanks! That's what I thought so.
> 
> Actually in the context of my sentence, a performance is taking place, and a spectator (the guest of a European diplomat in Japan) wants to leave. His host reminds him the play is not finished yet, suggesting the guest should stay until the end.
> Sir, *hindi pa* [po] *tapos* (adjective) ang palabas.
> _Sir, the show is not yet finished. _
> *Hindi na* niya *tinapos* (verb) ang palabas.
> _He did not finish watching the show anymore. (but the show went on)_


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## Qcumber

Detailed comments! This is what I need. Thanks a lot for your patience and dedication FFrancis.
Now that I think of it, would the rule be the same with *handâ* "ready"?

1) *Handâ ná ang péra.*
= The money is ready.

2) *Hindî ná handâ ang péra. [wrong]
3) *Hindî pá handâ ang péra. *​
= The money isn't ready.​


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> Detailed comments! This is what I need. Thanks a lot for your patience and dedication FFrancis.
> Now that I think of it, would the rule be the same with *handâ* "ready"?
> I think, it works with many adjectives; though, it may not apply to all.
> 
> 1) *Handâ ná ang péra. *
> = The money is ready.
> 
> 2) *Hindî ná handâ ang péra. [wrong]
> 3) *Hindî pá handâ ang péra. *​
> = The money isn't ready.​




Masaya na ako na magkakasama tayo ngayong Pasko. 
_I'm happy that we're together this Christmas. 
_
Hindi pa ako masaya sa isang milyon; gusto ko dalawang milyon. 
_I'm not yet content with one million; I want to have two million. _

Hindi na ako ang number one sa klase. 
_I'm not the top student in our class anymore.   _

Ako pa rin ang number one sa Math.
_I'm still number one in Math. _

etc​


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## Qcumber

FFrancis, what you write about *tapós* and *masayá* reveals that a fulfilment is expected in such cases hence the use of *pá *with the negation: *hindî pá tapós*, *hindî pá masayá*.

I suppose it is the opposite with *ubós* "consumed".

1) *Ubós ná ang sináing.*
= The steamed rice has been entirely consumed.

2) *Hindî ná ubós ang sináing.*
= The steamed rice hasn't been entirely consumed.


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> FFrancis, what you write about *tapós* and *masayá* reveals that a fulfilment is expected in such cases hence the use of *pá *with the negation: *hindî pá tapós*, *hindî pá masayá*.
> 
> I suppose it is the opposite with *ubós* "consumed".
> 
> 1) *Ubós ná ang sináing. *
> = The steamed rice has been entirely consumed.
> 
> 2) *Hindî ná ubós ang sináing.  Hindi pa ubos ang sinaing. *
> = The steamed rice hasn't been entirely consumed (yet).
> Or you can also say, referring to the past:
> Hindi *naubos* (past or present perfect tense) ang sinaing.
> By the way, we cook rice by *boiling*, not steaming.


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## Qcumber

Thanks a lot FFrancis, now I think I have understood the na / pa system with process adjectives.

P.S. I thought _kánin_ was "boiled rice" while _sináing _was "steamed rice".


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