# Catenaccio



## 101

Hi,

I have a Japanese student who is explaining to me about formations in soccer - sorry, futbol. There was a formation which was popular in Italy (perhaps in the 1960s?) called "katenachio" or something like that. It means to turn the key in the lock, or to lock the door, I think. I have searched and found "key" and "lock", but not this word. We are trying to make sure we have the Italian spelling correct, along with the meaning.

Mille grazie!


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## You little ripper!

101 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I have a Japanese student who is explaining to me about formations in soccer - sorry, futbol. There was a formation which was popular in Italy (perhaps in the 1960s?) called "katenachio" or something like that. It means to turn the key in the lock, or to lock the door, I think. I have searched and found "key" and "lock", but not this word. We are trying to make sure we have the Italian spelling correct, along with the meaning.
> 
> Mille grazie!


 I think the Italian word is catenaccio and means "bolt".  Or are you looking for a term that is used specifically in soccer?


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## You little ripper!

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I think the Italian word is catenaccio and means "bolt". Or are you looking for a term that is used specifically in soccer?


I've just checked the internet and it seems that "catenacchio" is a defense tactic in soccer. It means "chain" in this sense.


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## Alfry

yes, I agree
we say fare catenaccio, that is, 
la mia squadra fa catenaccio when we are winning and, say, there are five minutes left to play and we try to defend the result staying in our half of the field, caring only for defence and not for offence


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## Silvia

101 said:
			
		

> soccer - sorry, futbol.


Hi 101, futbol must be a Spanish word. It's calcio in Italian.


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## 101

Thank you. I'm happy to learn that!


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## 101

Alfry said:
			
		

> yes, I agree
> we say fare catenaccio, that is,
> la mia squadra fa catenaccio when we are winning and, say, there are five minutes left to play and we try to defend the result staying in our half of the field, caring only for defence and not for offence



Wow, this is all extremely helpful. Thank you! By the way, I thought you had written another comment below the above one all in Italian, but I can't view it now. What did that say?


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## 101

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I've just checked the internet and it seems that "catenacchio" is a defense tactic in soccer. It means "chain" in this sense.



Dear Charles,

Thank you for all of your comments. I will report them to my student tomorrow, and he will be pleased. This is very exciting. 

Thanks so much. I wish I had more questions!


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## 101

By the way, I checked and it is "futbol" in Spanish with an accent over the "u", and "football" in French with no accent. Funny, that one seems so American to me!


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## augusto orsi

In French is   "foot" " Jouer au foot" to play football.


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## Italo Arango Cangini

Hi (Ciao!),

Please excuse my arrogance.... the word Cateenaccio originated with The Squadra Azzurra due to the fact that their chain bent but never gave in (or broke). Il catenaccio constituted of nine players playing defense (La Catena) and two wings up front (#9 &11).  Once the other team got sucked in and tired out after attacking to no avail, one quick counter-attack for 50 or 60 meters would allow the only goal needed to accomplish victory. 
Sempre Forti!!! (They can't score they can't win!!).
Ci vediamo in Germania


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## Gianni2

In a discussion about soccer (calcio in italiano), does 'catenaccio' have any special, idiomatic meaning? The WR dictionary says 'bolt'. >>Il catenaccio é vivo e lotta insieme a noi'<<


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## Wolverine

Catenaccio is the totally defensive way of playing...

Catenaccio properly is a big chain but means a team that plays in a very defensive way and then the do lots of break-backs.

Italians team sometimes has this kind of game...

..but a coach is going angry if you said to him that is playing with "catenaccio"..

Ciao


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## moodywop

To my surprise, I found a long, detailed article in English on the defensive tactic known as "catenaccio" on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenaccio


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## Gianni2

Catenaccio properly is a big chain but means a team that plays in a very defensive way and then the do lots of break-backs.



Thanks a lot for your explanation.  You used another soccer term ( un' espressione gergo) that I need help with, i.e., 'break-backs'.


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## Wolverine

Break-back means "_contropiede_".

I'll give you an example for understanding.

If 11 plays versus 11 (1 is goal keeper for each team) and one team is strongly trying to do a goal, probably there are more than 2 or 3 players that are in attack.. probably also some center fielders are in attack..
So the defensive part of the team is alone.. 3 or 4 players (5 in defense could be _catenaccio_...).
So, if the team which is defending takes the ball and with very fast run goes in attack.. has a probability to attack in more than the defenders..
..and has more probabilities to do a goal, because the defense is not regulary positioned..

I don't know if i was able to explain..
i tried.

Ciao


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## Gianni2

Wolverine said:
			
		

> Break-back means "_contropiede_".
> 
> I'll give you an example (for understanding.)to help you understand.
> 
> If 11 plays versus 11 (1 is goal keeper for each team) and one team is (strongly) trying hard to (do) score, make a goal, then there are probably more than 2 or 3 players that are in (on the) attack.. probably also some center fielders are (in) attacking..
> So the defensive part of the team is alone.. 3 or 4 players (5 in defense could be _catenaccio_...).
> So, if the team which is defending takes the ball and with a very fast run goes in (on the) attack.. (it) has a probability( to attack in more than) of overpowering the defenders..
> ..and has( more probabilities to do) a greater chance of scoring a goal, because the defense is not (regulary)well positioned..
> 
> I don't know if i was able to explain..
> i tried.
> 
> Ciao


 

Yes, you explained it very well. In other words, by using more players on the attack, they are weakening their defenses and the opposing team might be able to take advantage of that weakness.
I have taken the opportunity to make some minor changes in the grammar. Still, you did well!

Dai, Italia!


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## Wolverine

Hey thanks fot the corrections.. with this forum and a brand new friendship with a dutch girl i'm imporiving so fast my english.

Thanks.

Italy-Germany =  fighting for honor!

Ciao


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## Gianni2

Wolverine said:
			
		

> Hey thanks fot the corrections.. with this forum and a brand new friendship with a dutch girl i'm imporiving so fast my english.
> 
> How ironic.  A Dutch girl teaching you English!
> Corrections:
> Hey, thanks for the corrections.  With this forum and a brand new friendship with a Dutch girl I'm improving my English very fast.(or 'I'm quickly improving my English).


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## Wolverine

It's ironic but shows a great problem of Italy...

..Here is very difficult speaking a language (except Italian).

In Italy there are a few people that speaks English for example.

And if you try to speak English with another Italian, he/she looks you and then says:  "You're crazy? Why don't you speak Italian?"

Ok thanks for the corrections that will come.. 
Ciao


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## primo_cerchio

Wolverine said:
			
		

> It's ironic but shows a great problem of Italy...
> 
> ..Here is very difficult speaking a language (except Italian).
> 
> In Italy there are a few people that speaks English for example.
> 
> And if you try to speak English with another Italian, he/she looks you and then says: "You're crazy? Why don't you speak Italian?"
> 
> Ok thanks for the corrections that will come..
> Ciao



Why would you speak english with other italians?
Just speak italian with Italians and English with everyone else.


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## Gianni2

Wolverine said:
			
		

> It's ironic but it shows there is a great problem  of  in Italy...
> 
> ..Here it is very difficult to speak a language other than Italian).
> 
> In Italy there are a few people that speaks English for example.
> 
> And if you try to speak English with another Italian, he/she looks at you and then says: "You're crazy? Why don't you speak Italian?"
> 
> Ok thanks for the corrections that will come..
> Ciao


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## JayH

Although I'm not 100% positive, it seems to me that catenaccio in the context of soccer is usually translated as "lock-down," as in the defense is in lock-down.  And in AE at least, break-backs are usually called counter-attacks.


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## Peppethelondoner

Italo Arango Cangini said:


> Sempre Forti!!! (They can't score they can't win!!).
> Ci vediamo in Germania


In Germania ci siamo fatti vedere alla grande, Forza Italia.
Can you also traslate 'catenaccio' in football context as 'PADLOCK'?
Peppe


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## Murphy

Peppethelondoner said:


> Can you also traslate 'catenaccio' in football context as 'PADLOCK'?
> Peppe


I've never heard "padlock" used to comment on football tatics.  I'm not sure we have a single term like "catenaccio" in English.  You can say "the whole team/all 11 players are behind the ball", or as a certain well-known coach once commented: "they parked the team bus in front of the goal".  This has been a popular saying in football circles ever since.


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## Peppethelondoner

Murphy said:


> I've never heard "padlock" used to comment on football tatics.  I'm not sure we have a single term like "catenaccio" in English.  You can say "the whole team/all 11 players are behind the ball", or as a certain well-known coach once commented: "they parked the team bus in front of the goal".  This has been a popular saying in football circles ever since.


Nice one... I think the coach is Hiddink after Barça-Chelsea    It was awful... Thanks a million, Murphy.
Wiki suggests to use 'catenaccio' but if I told that to a native English speaker, would he understand me?


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## Murphy

If he/she is a football fan, maybe......if not, you would probably need to explain it.

You could try "Italian style defence tactics", since the system was made famous by Italian teams and is still attributed to them

Ps. The "team bus" quote is one of Mourinho's


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## Peppethelondoner

Murphy said:


> If he/she is a football fan, maybe......if not, you would probably need to explain it.
> 
> You could try "Italian style defence tactics", since the system was made famous by Italian teams and is still attributed to them The usual stereotypes... Chelsea played with 'catenaccio' all the game but no one said anything about that... I was simply... good defence... Unbelievable
> 
> Ps. The "team bus" quote is one of Mourinho's Who else could have said that


Thanks Murphy


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## Peppethelondoner

Hi friends,
after Barcelona-Chelsea I'm wondering if there's a way to translate the adjective '*catenacciaro*' into English. "Il Chelsea ha giocato un calcio scandalosamente catenacciaro" is just an example. Any ideas?
Thanks
Peppe


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## Azazel81

Peppethelondoner said:


> Hi friends,
> after Barcelona-Chelsea I'm wondering if there's a way to translate the adjective '*catenacciaro*' into English. "Il Chelsea ha giocato un calcio scandalosamente catenacciaro" is just an example. Any ideas?
> Thanks
> Peppe


 
Eheh... you know? I've been giving actual thoughts about it and then I came to a conclusion: why would we ever need to translate that? It's simply something ITALIAN. Just like pizza. In English there's no english word for pizza as far as I know... so... why go for something English for "catenaccio" and "catenacciaro" when they're something totally Italian? It's like translating a brand to me 

So how about leaving the Italian word?


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## Peppethelondoner

Azazel81 said:


> Eheh... you know? I've been giving actual thoughts about it and then I came to a conclusion: why would we ever need to translate that? It's simply something ITALIAN. Just like pizza. In English there's no english word for pizza as far as I know... so... why go for something English for "catenaccio" and "catenacciaro" when they're something totally Italian? It's like translating a brand to me  I have to admit you're right, mate
> 
> So how about leaving the Italian word?


Il tuo discorso non fa una piega, ma dopo la semifinale d'andata tra Chelsea e Barça mi sa che Hiddink ce l'ha fregato il brand 
Vediamo cosa ne pensano gli altri riguardo al tralasciare il termine Italiano non tradotto.


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