# History/ story



## ThomasK

In some languages both words are translated in one word. German and French for example need only one word, I believe: (G) *Geschichte *and (Fr) *histoire*. In Dutch we need two:
a - (history) *geschiedenis *[geschieden - the older word for 'happen' - the new word is used in 'gebeurtenis', event]
b - (story) *verhaal *(in some very rare case geschiedenis might be used, but then it will probably less fictional)
How about your language ? 

A small extra question: do you see *new uses for the words story/ history*? 

_(In Dutch the word _verhaal _(story) has become quite popular in a very particular 'semi-non-fictional' sense for some years now:_

_either kind-of 'personal reports' about what has been going on in one's life: op verhaal komen - 'to come to story' - is even explained as getting back energy, but originally as a result of being listened to _
_or some kind of statement reflecting a vision as an explanation or justification, as in _Oppositie dringt aan op eerlijk verhaal _[Opposition Insists on honest story (about the EU negotiations) , or _het verhaal achter jouw studievertraging_ [the story 'behind' the delay (of progress) in studies], which is - I believe - meant to be both factual but complemented with personal views, feelings, etc. _
_One can appreciate that as allowing for/ recognizing a personal angle in history or criticize it as 'words, words, words' [few facts & too much feelings]... ;-) )_


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## Rallino

Turkish:

We have two synonymous words for 'story': _*Hikâye*_ /hɪkʲa:'je/ and _*Öykü*_ /øjcy/.

Etymlogy:
*Hikâye* comes from Arabic « ḥikāyat حكاية ». It means_ To recite, to imitate a past event.
_*Öykü *is Turkish, comes from the verb: Öykünmek, which means_ to imitate.
_

New uses/expressions:

-> *Herkesin bir hikâyesi var.* (lit. Everyone has a story.) Meaning: Everyone has had their fair share of problems and sorrows in life.
-> *Bana hikâye anlatma.* (lit. Don't tell me stories.) Meaning: Don't lie to me. / Stop finding excuses.


-----

History is *Tarih* /ta:'ɾɪç/. It comes from Arabic تأريخ. In Arabic, and according to my source it means: Arrangement of past events in a chronological order.


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## Istriano

In Brazilian Portuguese:

*story*: conto, estória/história*, causo
*history*: história

(*spelling variants and pronounced the same [is'tOrja]).
Currently, the spelling _estória _is discouraged by some grammarians, but it's still used by many people, and many writers are against the merger.
Even if the_ estória ~ história_ distinction were inexistent, we could use _conto _or _causo _for story.


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## Saluton

The two words are the same in Russian: *история* (ist*o*riya), although "story" as a literary work is called рассказ.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*History*: «Ιστορία» (isto'ria, _f._); Classical feminine noun «ἱστορία» (hĭstŏ'rīă), Ionic «ἱστορίη» (hĭstŏ'rīē)--> lit. _obtained knowledge, information_, later, _inquiry, written account, history_. PIE base *wid-tor- (which gives «ἵστωρ»/'hīstōr--> _sapient, connoisseur_), extended form of *weyd--, _to see, to know_ (cognate to Lat. _videō_, Russ. _ведать_, Ger. _wissen_).
*Story*:
1/ «Αφήγημα» (a'fijima, _n._)--> _tale, story_; Classical neuter noun «ἀφήγημα» (ă'pʰēgēmă)--> lit. _guiding, leading_ metaph. _tale, story, narrative_. In the modern language with «αφήγημα» we describe solely _the tale, story_. Classical verb «ἀφηγέομαι/ἀφηγοῦμαι» (ăpʰē'gĕŏmæ [uncontracted]/ăpʰē'goumæ [contracted])--> lit. _to lead the way_ metaph. _to tell, relate_. Compound, prefix and preposition «ἀπὸ» (ā'pŏ)--> _from, away, finishing, completing, back again_ + verb «ἡγέομαι/ἡγοῦμαι» (hē'gĕŏmæ [uncontracted]/hē'goumæ [contracted])--> _to go before, lead the way_; PIE base *sāg-, _to scent out_ (cognate to Lat. _sagio_, Fr. _présage_, Eng. _seek_, Ger. _suchen_).
2/ «Διήγημα» (ði'ijima, _n._)--> _tale_; Classical neuter noun with the same meaning, «διήγημα» (dĭ'ēgēmă). Compound, prefix and preposition «διὰ» (dī'ă)--> _through, throughout_ + verb «ἡγέομαι/ἡγοῦμαι» (hē'gĕŏmæ [uncontracted]/hē'goumæ [contracted])--> _to go before, lead the way_.
3/ «Ιστόρημα» (i'storima, _n._)--> _narrative, tale_; Classical neuter noun with the same meaning, «ἱστόρημα» (hĭ'stŏrēmă). «Ιστόρημα» is a learned (katharevousa) word in the modern language. 
4/ «Παραμύθι» (para'miθi, _n._)--> _children's short story, narrative_, _tale_; Classical neuter noun «παραμύθιον» (pără'mŭtʰīŏn)--> lit. _encouragement, assuagement_ metaph. _tale, narrative_. Compound, prefix and preposition «παρὰ» (pā'ră)--> _beside, near, from, against, contrary to_ + masculine noun «μῦθος» ('mūtʰŏs)--> _tale, story, narrative, rumour, myth_ with obscure etymology (some philologists suggest from PIE base *mēudʰ-, _to want, be intent on_)


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## jana.bo99

Slovenian

Story: zgodba (my story - moja zgodba)
History: zgodovina

Croatian

Story: priča (it doesn't sound right)
History: povijest


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## mataripis

The Pilipino has 1.) Story= estorya  and 2.)History= hestorya/kwento    but in Tagalog, 1.) Story= Saysay, isaysay  and 2.) History=  Kasaysayan


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## AutumnOwl

Swedish:
_History = historia_
_Story = berättelse_ (from berätta = tell), but _historia_ is also used for a story, for example: _en rolig histora _= _a funny story_, and when asking someone to tell a story: _kan du berätta en historia för mig = can you tell me a story_ (it would sound odd saying: kan du berätta en berättelse).


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## ThomasK

@AO: I am beginning to wonder whether _berättelse_ could have something to do with our _raadsel _(riddle) in Dutch, or with _raad _(advice, originally even food). Riddle and fiction seem related for example. 

@M : I can see influence from Spanish, but could you comment on the -_saysay_- element, perhaps on the _kwento_?


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## Alxmrphi

Icelandic:
History/Story = *saga *(the 'school subject' has the 'academic' ending 'fræði', _sagnfræði_, but many instances of what'd be 'history' in English are just *saga* still)

Italian:
History/Story = *storia *(though there are other words for 'story' in Italian, but this is definitely fine).

It's not really a surprise that some languages use the same word is it?
It's stretching things to say that these are actually two completely different words, I mean one exists inside the other: *history*.


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## ThomasK

Could you comment on the word 'fræði'? I have just found it means something like '-logy'... Or on the different uses of 'history'? 

For sure, I did not mean to suggest that they were completely different, but the fact is that the distinction is [being] retained (if that is the right word) in some languages. 

I was told by French-speaking people yesterday by the way that 'histoire' is always fairly non-fictional. If it is really meant to be ictional, i understood, they will use 'conte', maybe 'récit', I was told. I am beginning to fear that matters are way more complex than I thought they were, due to the fact that 'verhaal' in Dutch (story) implies 'freedom for fiction'... The fact that there are so many words for 'story' might betray that...


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## itreius

jana.bo99 said:


> Croatian
> 
> Story: priča (it doesn't sound right)
> History: povijest


 
Also, 

Story: pripo*vijest*, pripo*vjet*ka (both in the sense of a tale, story, short story)

and the verb pripo*vijed*ati (to narrate, to speak, etc.)

from the PIE root for _to know_,_ to see_, (German _wissen_, Dutch _weten_)


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## ThomasK

Very interesting addition. I wonder how I could explore the degree of fictionality (or factionality ?) of those different _story _words. Feel free to comment on the degree of factionality of your story word as opposed to others. 

I can't see any real synonym in Dutch; there are only specific kinds of stories such as fairy tales (_sprookjes_, based on _spreken_, speaking, but very specific in Dutch), legends (_sagen, legenden _in D), but we should not be going into these...


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## ThomasK

jana.bo99 said:


> Slovenian
> 
> Story: zgodba (my story - moja zgodba)
> History: zgodovina


Could you comment on this use of *'my [story]'*, Jana? I mean: does this refer to your account of things, meant to be 'factional', but decidedly from a personal point of view? It reminds me of my intial distinction...


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## Tamar

In Hebrew we have:
History - הסטוריה historya.
Story - סיפור - sipur.

We don't have a word for a story that's non fictional.



> *Bana hikâye anlatma.* (lit. Don't tell me stories.) Meaning: Don't lie to me. / Stop finding excuses.


We have the same thing:
אל תספר לי סיפורים - al tesaper li sipurim - don't tell me stories. Same meaning as in Turkish.

We also have סיפורי סבתא /shpurey savta/ (pronounced sipurey safta) - grandma stories
It's like "don't tell me stories"
הוא מספר סיפורי סבתא - hu mesaper sipurey safta - he tells grandma stories
Means that he's telling things that aren't true.
There's also סיפורי סבתא לילדים מפגרים - grandma stories for idiotic children


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## jana.bo99

ThomasK said:


> Could you comment on this use of *'my [story]'*, Jana? I mean: does this refer to your account of things, meant to be 'factional', but decidedly from a personal point of view? It reminds me of my intial distinction...


In fact: yes! 
I am always talking about: "My story" (moja zgodba).
I want to write "My story", all what happened to me and it happened a lot. 
I love to read books about true stories, when somebody writes about some very important event in his or her life (has nothing to do with Autobiography).


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## ThomasK

So that is when you write a story. That is quite amazing to me, because that use of 'story' is somewhat new with us (that is my feeling). But then: what are names for fictional stories in Czech then? Is there any way in which a _zgodba _can be written with fictitious characters ? (I am exploring the topics) 

Tamar's contribution reminds me of a distinction in Dutch: _verhaaltjes _(diminitive form of 'stories') is the equivalent of that in Dutch. Those are about lies, things that are not to believed as factual...


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## francisgranada

Hungarian

*történet *- story
*történelem -* history

Obviousely, both derive from the same verb: 
_történni _*- *to happen.


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## ThomasK

Are they both non-fictional, FG ?


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> Are they both non-fictional, FG ?


I'm not sure if I understand your question ... Maybe these examples will help you to understand the difference:

Európa *történelme* - History of Europe
Egy érdekes *történet *- An interesting story

Of course, there are also other words, e.g. when speaking about genres of the literature etc... (but this is true also in other languages, English _tale,_ Italian _racconto_, Czech _povídka, _Hungarian _elbeszélés  _....)


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## ThomasK

I am beginning to see that you too do not consider _történet _as very fictional, rather fairly factual but from a personal point of view. And indeed, I had not thought of tales in English; that seems a narrower category, I guess than stories. In the meantime it is unclear to me how we could ever make clear what we precisely mean by our words for 'story', I am afraid. Any suggestions, anyone? Thanks in advance !


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> I am beginning to see that you too do not consider _történet _as very fictional, rather fairly factual but from a personal point of view. And indeed, I had not thought of tales in English; that seems a narrower category, I guess than stories. In the meantime it is unclear to me how we could ever make clear what we precisely mean by our words for 'story', I am afraid. Any suggestions, anyone? Thanks in advance !


The English _story _and _history_, are of course, of the same origin (from the Old French _estoire_, _estorie_ < Latin _historia_ < Greek _historia_). So the analysis of the developement of the meaning of the English words story and history is "one story", and the analysis of the corresponding words in other languages is an "other story".

See the romance languages, where the words _story _and _history _have (logically) a unique form, e.g. Spanish _historia_, Italian _storia _(meaning both _story _and _history_)_._

In Hungarian, it seems to be quite clear and simple: _történni _is_ to happen. _So both _történet _(story) and _történelem _(history) mean "things" that happened (or at least we _suppose _that they happend, of course ...). This distinction corresponds quite well to the English story/history.

In Czech, I'd say that _történet _(story) is _příhoda _and _történelem _(history) is _dějiny. _But, there are other words and a perfect "one-to-one" correspondance between two or more languages is practically impossible ...


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## ThomasK

Your last line summarizes it all: it is not a one-to-one correspondence, whereas I did not realize that. I thought stories were fictitious per se, but now I find they are not, or need not...


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## hui

*Finnish:*

history- _historia
- __menneisyys_ ("gone-by-ness", the past)​
story-_ tarina_ (< Russian: stariná, old times or poems/stories of old times)
_- kertomus_ < _kertoa_ (to tell, originally: to repeat) < _kerta_ (occasion, "one time")​


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## bibax

Czech:

history: *dějiny* (from díti se = to happen, děj = plot, e.g. of a film), also *historie*;

story: *příběh* (from běžeti = to run, běh = run), *příhoda* (přihoditi se = to happen, hoditi = to throw), colloq. *historka* (= a 'little history');

legend: *pověst* (cognate to BCS povijest);

I should add that pověst and history are true cognates as the stems _*věst-*_ and _*hist-*_ are from the same PIE root *wid-, to see, to know.


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> @AO: I am beginning to wonder whether _berättelse_ could have something to do with our _raadsel _(riddle) in Dutch, or with _raad _(advice, originally even food). Riddle and fiction seem related for example.


No, the Swedish word for riddle is _gåta_ and for advice it's _råd_. I've tried to find an etymological explanation for berätta, but haven't found one. It might have something to do with rät, rätt = straigh, right; to tell things as they are, but that's just a wild guess. 

There is an old word for berätta, _tälja/förtälja_ that comes from old German tellen, http://runeberg.org/svetym/1135.html It's seldom used today, usually just seen in fairy tale endings: _"... men detta förtäljer inte historien"_ - but the story doesn't tell (about) this.


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## Orlin

In Bulgarian _история_ can mean *both* _story_ and _history_, the words for _history_ in Serbian (_istorija_), Bosnian (_historija_) and Croatian (_povijest_, _historija_) can sometimes also mean _story_ (mostly colloquially, unfortunately I can't explain it in more details about BCS, see the dictionary links).


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## DenisBiH

Orlin said:


> In Bulgarian _история_ can mean *both* _story_ and _history_, the words for _history_ in Serbian (_istorija_), Bosnian (_historija_) and Croatian (_povijest_, _historija_) can sometimes also mean _story_ (mostly colloquially, unfortunately I can't explain it in more details about BCS, see the dictionary links).



I don't think that this (_historija _meaning "story") would apply to Bosnian, or at least it would seem a bit odd to me. It might be another difference among the standards. However, that reminded me of a dialectal term in (Dalmatian) Croatian - _štorija_, also from historia but via Venetian. According to the dictionary, it means only "story", not "history".

For Bosnian, at least, there is also an Arabic loanword, _tarih_, meaning "history", but is now archaic. According to the dictionary entry, it is, at least officially, considered a regionalism in Croatian as well. Most probably a Bosnian regionalism, I'd guess. Which reminds me, there is also _hikaja_/_hićaja _"story", also Arabic via Ottoman Turkish, also mostly archaic today.

And yes - for Bosnian, at least, there is _kazivanje_, a Slavic word from _kazivati_, literally "telling; narrative", but generally closer to "story". According to Google, it seems to be used quite often in Islamic contexts for some reason ("Kazivanje o Musau/Isau/Ibrahimu/Muhammedu" = "The story of Moses/Jesus/Abraham/Muhammad")




Tamar said:


> We have the same thing:
> אל תספר לי סיפורים - al tesaper li sipurim - don't tell me stories. Same meaning as in Turkish.




Here it would be _Ne pričaj mi priče_ ("Don't tell me stories"), with the same general meaning as in Turkish and Hebrew. There is also _Pričam ti priču_ (lit. "I'm teling you a story") used as an expression, according to this definion, to comment on someone boasting about things they could have done, but haven't. More generally, a comment about someone saying something that is untrue or at least not very likely.




Tamar said:


> We also have סיפורי סבתא /shpurey savta/ (pronounced sipurey safta) - grandma stories
> It's like "don't tell me stories"
> הוא מספר סיפורי סבתא - hu mesaper sipurey safta - he tells grandma stories
> Means that he's telling things that aren't true.
> There's also סיפורי סבתא לילדים מפגרים - grandma stories for idiotic children




Here it would be _bapske priče_ (lit. "grandmother-ish stories/tales"), usually denoting something superstitious, exaggerated and false.


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## ThomasK

How about telling stories? Do you make a distinction between fictional stories and others (more 'history-like')?

_(Just by the way: my knowledge (command) of Croation or any Slavic language is non-existent, I am afraid and I am sorry to say, which makes the explanations in those languages inaccessible. but I suppose I'll be reading a little more here later on. )_


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## francisgranada

Hungarian
(more detailed)*

történelem *- history
*történet *- story (that happend, might happe etc...)
igaz *történet *- true story  
kitalált *történet *- "invented story", fiction

*elbeszélés *- story/tale/telling/narration ...
*monda *- saga, legend
*rege *- legend, tale
*regény *- novel
*mese *- tale, fable
tündér*mese* - fairy-_tale_ 
nép*mese* - folk-tale 
dajka*mese* - nursery tale
etc....

*elbeszél*ni / el*monda*ni / el*mesé*lni egy történetet - to tell a story  
* mesé*lni - to tell a tale
*regé*lni - to tell legends


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## DenisBiH

AutumnOwl said:


> No, the Swedish word for riddle is _gåta_ and for advice it's _råd_. I've tried to find an etymological explanation for berätta, but haven't found one. It might have something to do with rät, rätt = straigh, right; to tell things as they are, but that's just a wild guess.



What is the etymology of _gåta_? We have a verb _gatati _which in Bosnian / BCS means "to tell fortune/future" but according to this it seems that in Bulgarian it has to do with riddles (Orlin might know better). The etymology seems to be unclear, and a link to Avestan gāthā "song"               is suggested.




ThomasK said:


> How about telling stories? Do you make a  distinction between fictional stories and others (more 'history-like')?



Generally I don't think so. Or perhaps in some ways we do. Here is the breakdown for Bosnian and you can decide.

*historija *- history, both as a science and as a collection of historical events, personalities etc.
*priča *- story, which may be fictional, but does not need to be. However, as stated above, there are expressions where _priča _is used to denote something fictitious. Generally I might say that while a _priča _may or may not be fictitious, it often imples that there is no scientific backing, but that if it is true, it is more of a personal recounting of events. Or I may be imagining that. In any case, one should treat it as neutral fiction-wise. We do have the expression _šuplja priča_ / coll. _šupljak_ (lit. "hollow story") to denote an untrue, exaggerated, bogus, deceitful etc. story. There is actually a colloquial verb, _šupljirati_, meaning to tell bogus stories and waste people's time.
*historijat *- now this is a story with a scientific feel to it.  "Historijat belgijsko-bosanskih odnosa u 21. stoljeću" would be the proper expression for "The history/chronology of Belgian-Bosnian relations in the 21st century". So in some cases where English would use "history" we use _historijat _rather than _historija_.
*pripovijetka *- a tale, also a literary type
*kazivanje *- as I said above, in Bosnian it often has the connotation of a religious story. Perhaps closest to "recounting". I don't think it carries the fictitious connotation.

There are others but these I find most important.


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## ThomasK

I'd be interested to hear what the criterion could be for the difference between _rege_, _törte _and _elsbeszéles_. Would you be able to give one? Referring to things happening (happened) as such would be too broad, I guess.


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## francisgranada

I think, that the main criterion is, that *történet *is the _story itself_, i.e. the "things that happend/might happed/could happen ...", independently on the way (or genre) how it is told, written or sung .... and, generally, also independent on the truth (if I tell you the story about how I climbed the Mount Everest, it can still be a _történet _even if not true in my case ....

*Elbeszélés, rege, regény *represent rather the _genre _how the stories/events/history etc... are presented.  

*Mese *is a tale, typically for children, not a true story (though it can be based on reality, of course). But I think, it can also be viewed as a certain genre.


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## Akitlosz

history = történelem

true story = igaz történet
fictional story = kitalált történet

legend = legenda
saga = monda

tale = mese


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## Nizo

In Esperanto, _history_ is *historio*, while _story_ is *historio* or *rakonto*.


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## A.O.T.

In Ukrainian:

story = *історія, розповідь*
history = *історія*


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## Adlu

Albanian:

*Histori* - _history
_*Tregim - *_story_


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