# Origin of the word Lumpia



## TraductoraPobleSec

Is *lumpia* a word of Indonesian origin? Thanks in advance!  In Europe, I've so far only seen this word in the Netherlands.


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## cirrus

Me too, albeit with the Dutch spelling loempia.


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## sound shift

In the Netherlands I've seen "Vietnamese loempia" on sale.


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## Nikola

It is Indonesian,Malay, Filipino and Vietnamese.The Dutch spelling is from the old Indonesian spelling (a former colony of the Netherlands.) The names origin is from Chinese dialect Hokkien. Immigrants from Fujian China brought it to the previously mentioned places.


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## 0stsee

Does *lumpia *have a certain meaning in Hokkien?

I remember that there are small round pies that are called *pia* in Jakarta.
Note the similarity *pie - pia*. But perhaps that's a mere coincidence.


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## Joannes

Nikola said:


> The Dutch spelling is from the old Indonesian spelling (a former colony of the Netherlands.)


Actually the old Indonesian spelling was derived from the Dutch one.  An /u/ sound is still represented by <oe> in present day Dutch.


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## Qcumber

0stsee said:


> Does *lumpia *have a certain meaning in Hokkien?
> I remember that there are small round pies that are called *pia* in Jakarta.
> Note the similarity *pie - pia*. But perhaps that's a mere coincidence.


These are rolls containing a mixture of meat and vegetables. 
*Fukien Chinese 春餅 lun/\ + pyã\ "spring roll".*
It was borrowed in Tagalog (Philippines) as *lumpiyâ > lumpyâ* [lum 'pja?].
It was introduced in Barcelona by Filipino immigrants about a decade ago.


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## Nikola

Joannes said:


> Actually the old Indonesian spelling was derived from the Dutch one.  An /u/ sound is still represented by <oe> in present day Dutch.


That is what I meant since Indonesia was a Dutch colony the word was influenced by Dutch spelling norms.


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## 0stsee

Qcumber said:


> These are rolls containing a mixture of meat and vegetables.
> *Fukien Chinese 春餅 lun/\ + pyã\ "spring roll".*
> It was borrowed in Tagalog (Philippines) as *lumpiyâ > lumpyâ* [lum 'pja?].
> It was introduced in Barcelona by Filipino immigrants about a decade ago.


 
Thanks Qcumber!

So *lun/\* means _spring_ and *pyâ\* means _roll _in Hokkien?


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## Qcumber

0stsee said:


> So *lun/\* means _spring_ and *pyâ\* means _roll _in Hokkien?


You are welcome.
Yes, that's it.
By the way, looking it up in a Chinese dictionary, I found the standard Chinese reading is chun1-bing3, and "spring roll" in standard Chinese is chun1-juan3 
春捲

Now that I think of it, I ate some _lumpyâ Shanghai_ (Shanghai spring roll) in Amsterdam several years ago in a Filipino restaurant, and the term was respelt <loempia>.


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## Flaminius

Wikipedia says "_lumpia_ derives from _lunpia_ (traditional Chinese: 潤餅; pinyin: rùnbǐng; POJ: jūn-piáⁿ, lūn-piáⁿ) in the Hokkien dialect of Chinese."  Lumpia seems to be a product of denasalisation for lūn-piáⁿ.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Many thanks everyone so far


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## Qcumber

Flaminius said:


> Wikipedia says "_lumpia_ derives from _lunpia_ (traditional Chinese: 潤餅; pinyin: rùnbǐng; POJ: jūn-piáⁿ, lūn-piáⁿ) in the Hokkien dialect of Chinese." Lumpia seems to be a product of denasalisation for lūn-piáⁿ.


My source for the etymology I supplied is
CHAN YAP, Gloria (1980)
_Hokkien Chinese borrowings in Tagalog_
The Australian National University
Pacific Linguistics
Series B, No. 71

Yes, the nasalisation of the vowel of the second syllable (piã\) was dropped in Tagalog and Malay.
I am not a sinologist, but the first logogram given by CHAN YAP (spring) sounds better to me than the one found in the Wikipedia article:
潤 run4 "wet, etc."
Possibly both are used.


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## Consimmer

Nikola said:


> It is Indonesian,Malay, Filipino and Vietnamese.The Dutch spelling is from the old Indonesian spelling (a former colony of the Netherlands.) The names origin is from Chinese dialect Hokkien. Immigrants from Fujian China brought it to the previously mentioned places.


 
In Malaysia, the food item is better known as 'popia' or 'popiah': http://kuali.com/recipes/viewrecipe.asp?r=1101

Since the pronounciation is different from Hokkien, I think (though someone else has to confirm), the word is Hakka adopted for use in Malaysia.


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## Flaminius

Qcumber said:


> I am not a sinologist, but the first logogram given by CHAN YAP (spring) sounds better to me than the one found in the Wikipedia article:
> 潤 run4 "wet, etc."
> Possibly both are used.


春餅 and  潤餅 are admittedly synonymous, at least in Modern Taiwansese (Min Nan), but 春 seems less likely a candidate than 潤 as the origin of lumpia.  While 潤餅 is variously noted as jūn-piáⁿ, lūn-piáⁿ or rùn bĭng, 春餅 is usually chun bĭng.  If 潤餅 is the origin for lumpia, we will have a fun time discussing why "wet cake" refers to non-fried spring rolls.


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## Qcumber

Flaminius said:


> 春餅 and 潤餅 are admittedly synonymous, at least in Modern Taiwansese (Min Nan), but 春 seems less likely a candidate than 潤 as the origin of lumpia. While 潤餅 is variously noted as jūn-piáⁿ, lūn-piáⁿ or rùn bĭng, 春餅 is usually chun bĭng. If 潤餅 is the origin for lumpia, we will have a fun time discussing why "wet cake" refers to non-fried spring rolls.


No, it would be a waste of time. What matters is to know the etymon is Fukien Chinese lūn-piáⁿ  whichever its spelling in logograms.


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## Flaminius

> What matters is to know the etymon is Fukien Chinese lūn-piáⁿ  whichever its spelling in logograms.


春 cannot be pronounced as /lūn/ in Hokkien.  If Tagalog lumpia is from Hokkien lūn-piáⁿ, then only 潤餅 is the possibility.


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## Qcumber

Flaminius said:


> 春 cannot be pronounced as /lūn/ in Hokkien. If Tagalog lumpia is from Hokkien lūn-piáⁿ, then only 潤餅 is the possibility.


Oh, you mean Gloria CHAN YAP (whose family hails from Fukien) used the wrong logogram. Quite possible. Thanks a lot for the information.


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