# la France profonde



## DL9

Pour la petite histoire (La Maison de Nina)
 
Ce film relate la réalité des maisons d'enfants ayant accueilli dès 1944, des enfants, des adolescents privés de leurs familles déportées et décimées, ainsi que certains enfants et ados qui ont été abrité pendant la guerre *au sein de fermes de la France profonde*. 
 
I have read the thread of *la France profonde*, but here could you please advise what is *au sein de fermes de la France profonde* ? merci


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## Laurie.Cocoon

Main of the houses in "La France Profonde" are farms.

It means that these children were hidden in farms, simply. 

Was it your question?


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## Laurie.Cocoon

Concerning _au sein_, I'd say that it means _in, into, inside, within..._


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## DL9

Thank you Laurie.Cocoon


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## DL9

But *fermes* here is a bit hard to understand for me


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## wesetters

I don't like hidden. I would just say _children were sent (or evacuated) to the countryside during the war_.


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## wesetters

DL9 said:


> But *fermes* here is a bit hard to understand for me


I don't think you need to translate "fermes" literally.


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## DL9

OK wesetters, thank you, understood now.


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## Laurie.Cocoon

wesetters said:


> I don't like hidden. I would just say _children were sent (or evacuated) to the countryside during the war_.



You're right, I was thinking about the jew children who were hidden there. (must have seen too many movies about that). Actually it's about war-orphans isn't it?


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## DL9

I guess so, Laurie, I just read the commentaire of it, I never saw the movie..


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## wesetters

Laurie.Cocoon said:


> You're right, I was thinking about the jew children who were hidden there. (must have seen too many movies about that). Actually it's about war-orphans isn't it?


 Not only war orphans - "ainsi que certains qui ont été abrités pdt la guerre"


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## Micia93

Laurie.Cocoon said:


> Main of the houses in "La France Profonde" are farms.


 
I beg to disagree  "la France profonde" doesn't only mean farmers or peasants, but people having a "basic" background (not really high-educated and not well-off), they can live in Strasbourg, Lyon or Paris !


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## wesetters

Micia93 said:


> I beg to disagree  "la France profonde" doesn't only mean farmers or peasants, but people having a "basic" background (not really high-educated and not well-off), they can live in Strasbourg, Lyon or Paris !


 :s: My understanding of "La France profonde" most certainly is the countryside... and as far as I know, it has nothing to do with the educational or financial background of the locals...


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## Micia93

you may think so, but I have always found it very derogatory (remember the scandal that was made about this word !)


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## Laurie.Cocoon

Micia93 said:


> I beg to disagree  "la France profonde" doesn't only mean farmers or peasants, but people having a "basic" background (not really high-educated and not well-off), they can live in Strasbourg, Lyon or Paris !



*au sein de fermes de la France  profonde*. 

And as far as I know, "ferme" is "farm"...


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## Micia93

Laurie.Cocoon said:


> *au sein de fermes de la France profonde*.
> 
> And as far as I know, "ferme" is "farm"...


 
Bien sûr qu'il parle de fermes, mais c'est justement pour indiquer que cette partie de la France profonde est agricole ; ça aurait pû être aussi "au sein des HLM de la France profonde" si le contexte s'y était prêté
enfin, je n'interviens plus car cette appellation me dérange beaucoup, et je reste sur mes convictions !


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## Laurie.Cocoon

Micia93 said:


> Bien sûr qu'il parle de fermes, mais c'est justement pour indiquer que cette partie de la France profonde est agricole ; ça aurait pû être aussi "au sein des HLM de la France profonde" si le contexte s'y était prêté
> enfin, je n'interviens plus car cette appellation me dérange beaucoup, et je reste sur mes convictions !


Si c'était HLM j'aurais dit "children found a shelter in the HLM of "La France Profonde"...

Edit :


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## franc 91

I agree with Micia - the uneducated countryfolk (peasants would probably be too harsh a word to use)


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## lavoisine

Micia93 said:


> you may think so, but I have always found it very derogatory (remember the scandal that was made about this word !)



Bonjour à tous,  I'm coming very late to this conversation, but I'm hoping you can help anyway.  I'm trying to get a better sense of to what degree this expression could be (potentially) offensive.  Could you tell me what was the scandal to which you refered?  Is it a bit like 'Français de souche'?  A term that used to be neutral but is not anymore?

Merci beaucoup!


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## bh7

le Canada profond => rural Canada, the broad mass of Canadian people; [péj.] the Canadian unwashed, the Canadian plebs

les É.-U. profonds => middle America, the American middle class (parce qu'aux É.-U. tout le monde se sent "middle-class" sauf les "riches" et les "superriches")


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## UKnight

Hello!

Not easy to answer.

_"au sein de"_ means in this context _inside the_ (opposite of _outside_).

About _fermes de la France profonde_.
If it is a name of a place, the part of the sentence should be: _inside of "Fermes de la France profonde"._
Otherwise, _inside of some farms of typical French country-folk._ could be a choice.
I'm not sure in fact. Translation should depend on the country you're talking about.
_
profonde_ (feminine adjective of _profond_) originally means _deep_. But in this context, it refers to an expression like _specific background_ or _cultural background_.

_La France profonde_ is not the same as _l'Amérique profonde_ and so on...
What is common is mostly the idea of specificity and conservatism. It's not a problem of to be a peasant or to be uneducated as said before, it's a problem of mentality (social anthropology)... Not my field.

Hope it helps.


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## Nicomon

For what it's worth, Wikipedia defines « France profonde » (they translated it literally as "Deep France") is this *English article* . 
I understand it as "traditional rural France", as opposed to life in larger cities. Or countryside, as already suggested. 

Copied from Antidote under « profond » : 





> Qui concerne les caractéristiques d’un pays, d’une région qui sont enracinées depuis longtemps. La France profonde.


As read googling : 





> […] nothing seems to have altered the old castle’s charms nor its memories, *the heartland of rural **France* is bucolic, with its torrid and luminous summer and its magic mountain.
> 
> […] le vieux château n’a rien perdu de son charme ni de ses souvenirs, la *campagne de la France profonde* est bucolique, l’été torride et lumineux, la montagne magique.


 All of this above doesn't sound pejorative at all to me. But then if I say/write (tongue in cheek) « _en québécois profond »_, by this I mean as someone lacking in education - or "unwashed" (which I'd translate as _mal dégrossi/populo_) as bh7 wrote in post #20 - might say.  So I understand Micia's point of view. The word « _profond _» may or may not be pejorative, context depending. 
In the OP's context, I like wetsetters' solution. I understand that those children were sent to/sheltered in farms in the countryside of France during the war.


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## francais2english

I would have tried - in the heart of the French countryside - or - in rural France - as bh7 suggests.


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## Nicomon

francais2english said:


> I would have tried - in the heart of the French countryside - or - in rural France - as bh7 suggests.


   For both suggestions.


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## lavoisine

Merci bh7.  J'avais compris la notion de 'middle England/America', mais je ne dirais pas qu'en anglais ces expressions ont vraiment un sens péjoratif. Par contre, Micia a dit que 'la France profonde' est une appellation qui la dérangeait, donc je voudrais comprendre comment et à quelle point le terme peut être mal pris.

Et en plus, elle a mentionné un scandale, donc je veux en savoir plus!


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## lavoisine

Et merci à tous.

I should know better than to post a reply started some hours before without checking that there hadn't been further updates...

I'm still interested, should anyone know, what is the scandal around the term that Micia refered to.  My first real engagement with it was in a rap by Diam's, and I think that she is using the term negatively, or at least in opposition to herself and her people, but that particular usage doesn't seem particularly scandalous to me, so I wonder if she is using the term with a more specific reference than I have understood.

Merci encore.


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## orlando09

francais2english said:


> I would have tried - in the heart of the French countryside - or - in rural France - as bh7 suggests.



I've not had the impression that "la France" profonde was usually used in an especially offensive way, and I agree I have always taken it as referring to "the heart of the countryside" - rural areas which have retained traditions and values that might have died out elsewhere. It suggests to me "authenticity" and solidity; perhaps a certain nostalgia, possibly conservatism too, but not necessarily in a negative way. I've certainly never had the impression it could refer to someone in a city or that it has to necessarily indicate a lack of education.


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## Michelvar

lavoisine said:


> [....] I'm trying to get a  better sense of to what degree this expression could be (potentially)  offensive.  Could you tell me what was the scandal to which you refered?   Is it a bit like 'Français de souche'?  A term that used to be neutral  but is not anymore?



Out of context, it has a slight derogative hint. But it depends a lot of the context. It can be very derogative when used with this purpose.

But this word is a bit odd, because its "derogativeness" depends also on the listener/reader.... When I hear a stuck-up Parisian committed intellectual speak about "la France Profonde" with a contemptuous smile, I feel proud to come from "La France Pronfonde"...


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## Kelly B

I wonder whether _the French heartland _would suit, then, because I'd respond to _American heartland _ as Michelvar just described. It evokes unsophisticated (but not stupid) people serving up big slices of apple pie on a farmhouse table, and they'd say unsophisticated is a perfectly fine way to be, not like those big-talking citified snobs.


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