# Croatia



## beclija

Hello everyone!

I have got a "Srbocharvátsky-Český kapesní slovník", printed in the sixties, which I bought in an antikvariát in a Moravian town. It says that "Hrvatska" translates as "Charvátsko", but travel agencies in the same town were advertising trips to "Chorvatsko" (and the wikipedia article is also "Chorvatsko") - is "Charvátsko" just an old version or is it still used nowadays? Or would you use one in historical contexts and the other for the post-1991 state?
Thanks, 
Bečlija


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## Jana337

Must be an old book, right?  Was it in Mikulov?

Charvátsko sounds very angestaubt and very rare.  In fact, I don't think I have ever heard it. "Charvát" yes but not "Charvátsko". Now I was about to write that "Charvát" was probably a k.&k. Czech word and "Chorvat" appeared at an unspecified point during the 20th century. But I did some research and had to modify my theory somewhat; "Chorvat" is in fact older than I had thought. What I know with certainty is that 1991 is irrelevant; we called the part of the Yugoslavian federation Chorvatsko and its inhabitants Chorvati.

What I discovered: An article from a very reputable encyclopaedia that appeared in 1908. Only the first paragraph is relevant. A summary:

Timeline from the viewpoint of the text: Charvát (ancient) - Chorvat (newer but also outdated now) - Charvát (restored)



> Srbocharvátský jazyk. The outdated Czech name "srbsko-chorvatský jazyk" is no longer in use. We use "jazyk srbocharvátský" for the following reasons:South Slavic Croats call themselves Hrvati. It would be appropriate to refer to them by the same name (Chrvati) or by an ancient Czech name (Charváti).
> The name Chorvat is an immitation of the Hungarian Horvath (implicit message: Why would we call Slavic nation by a Hungarian name?).​The rest of the first paragraph is a dilation on the Czech mythology. According to a text written around 1300, Czechs came to where they are now from Croatia (which does not exactly square with the much more common hypothesis that they came from the East).


Moreover, in Moravia, there are villages where descendants of migrants from Croatia live (they came in the 16th century during Turkish incursions). They are called Charváti or Chorvati. Here (scroll down) and here are MP3s with their songs.  And a .pdf file about their history (in Czech).

Back on topic: So, what remains to be clarified is when in the 20th century "Charvát" was replaced by "Chorvat" again. I think it must have been in the 1920s because I have never heard "Charvát" from old people, so they must have learned "Chorvat" at school.

I will report back as soon as I have discovered something new. 

Jana


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## beclija

That is interesting, because the dictionary is printed in Prague in 1965 (it's by some Miloš Noha). I guess they would have known which term was used at that time?
Thanks for the abundant information, more than I was asking for really...
Just to spin on the off topic discussion: The Croatian minority in Burgenland (hrvatski: Gradišće) that dates back to the same time as the one in Moravia, Slovakia and Western Hungary, often refer to themselves as "Krowotn" rather than "Kroaten" in (colloquial) German. At the same time, "Krowotn" sounds rather pejorative out of context, i.e. if said in Vienna by a German speaking Austrian. Here a link to a weekly newspaper in gradišćansko-hrvatski (some articles also in German).


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## cajzl

> ... because I have never heard "Charvát" from old people, so they must have learned "Chorvat" at school.


Strange. The "official" term was (and perhaps still
is) *Charvát/Charvátsko/charvátština*.

For example:
*Srbocharvátština* pro samouky. Praha 1972.
*Srbocharvátština* pro jazykové školy I-II. Praha 1973 a 1985.


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## Jana337

cajzl said:


> Strange. The "official" term was (and perhaps still
> is) *Charvát/Charvátsko/charvátština*.
> 
> For example:
> *Srbocharvátština* pro samouky. Praha 1972.
> *Srbocharvátština* pro jazykové školy I-II. Praha 1973 a 1985.


How do you recognize an official term?  

The author of the textbook can have gone against the mainstream because of his inherent preference. I asked my parents who were schooled around 1970s, and they associate "Charvát" with particular people who have that surname but not with the inhabitants of Croatia.

Jana


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## cajzl

Oficiální je to, co je napsáno na budově velvyslanectví.

Dnes: Velvyslanectví *Chorvatské* republiky.

Dříve: Velvyslanectví SFRJ. (pochopitelně)
A podle jedné z mnoha učebnic (před rokem 1989): SFRJ se skládá ze 6 republik a 2 autonomních oblastí: Socialistická republika Srbska, Socialistická republika *Charvátska*, atd.

V Praze je ulice *Chorvatská* (a také Charvátova).
V Ostravě je ulice *Charvátská*.

Podle starších PČP: Charvátsko i Chorvatsko
Podle novějších PČP: Chorvatsko i Charvátsko

Tak a teď si vyberte.

Zdá se, že vaši rodiči nečetli pečlivě učebnice zeměpisu (jako ostatně většina z nás). Tehdy se ale říkalo Jugoslávec a k moři se jezdilo do Jugoslávie (většinou samozřejmě do SR Charvátska). To byl ten mainstream.


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