# Gestern war ich Tennis spielen



## OzDeutscherstudent

Hi Everyone.

I was just wondering whether this sentence was grammatically correct:


Gestern war Ich Tennis spielen.



I thought it would be:


Gestern spielte  Ich Tennis


oder,  Gestern habe ich Tennis gespielt.


(The sentence was my "Sentence of the Day" a few days ago.)


Vielen dank


Simon


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## Toadie

Gestern war ich Tennis spielen is incorrect.

It could be:
Gestern habe ich Tennis gespielt
-or-
Gestern spielte ich Tennis.

"Gestern war ich Tennist spielen" ergibt einfach keinen Sinn.


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## Jana337

Toadie said:


> "Gestern war ich Tennis spielen" ergibt einfach keinen Sinn.


Doch.  Solche Sätze werden benutzt und problemlos verstanden - in der Umgangssprache.

Grammatikalisch sind sie im Grunde genommen nicht. Deshalb wundert es mich, dass OzDeutscherstudent (herzlich willkommen übrigens!) dem Satz in "Sentence of the Day" begegnet ist. So was sollte man den Lernenden erst dann vermitteln, wenn sie in der Lage sind, es richtig einzustufen, wovon man bei einem anonymen Satz des Tages nicht ausgehen sollte.

Click.


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## starrynightrhone

Toadie said:


> "Gestern war ich Tennis spielen" is incorrect.
> 
> It could be:
> "Gestern habe ich Tennis gespielt"
> -or-
> "Gestern spielte ich Tennis".
> 
> "Gestern war ich Tennis spielen" ergibt einfach keinen Sinn.


 
Doch! Es tut mir leid, aber damit hast du leider nicht recht, Toadie.



OzDeutscherstudent said:


> I was just wondering whether this sentence was grammatically correct:
> 
> 1. "Gestern war ich Tennis spielen".
> 
> I thought it would be:
> 
> 2. "Gestern spielte ich Tennis"
> 
> 3. "Gestern habe ich Tennis gespielt."


 

All three sentences are grammatically correct, Simon.


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## Henryk

Handytelefonat:
A: Wo bist du?
B: Ich bin (beim) Tennisspielen. (Ich bin zu einem zum Tennisspielen geeigneten Platz gegangen und spiele da gerade.)
"Ich bin Tennisspielen" impliziert beide unterstrichene Teilsätze. Wenn man sagt: "Ich spiele gerade Tennis", dann kann es unklar sein, ob man ein Computerspiel namens "Tennis" spielt oder ob man auf dem Sportplatz ist. In meinen Ohren ist "ich bin Tennisspielen" in dem Fall viel natürlicher als "ich spiele gerade Tennis". 

 Gestern war ich Tennis spielen.

Aber wie gesagt, es ist sehr umgangssprachlich.


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## OzDeutscherstudent

Thanks to everyone for their help!!


best wishes

Simon


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## starrynightrhone

OzDeutscherstudent said:


> Thanks to everyone for their help!!
> 
> 
> best wishes
> 
> Simon


 
You're more than welcome!


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## Toadie

Wow.... I thought for sure I know that one xD


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## driFDer

Is it not a regional thing when talking about using sein/haben with the verb "spielen?" I thought people in southern Germany prefere the use of sein instead of haben. Or is that just in Austria or text books?

Ex. Gestern war ich Tennis spielen.
Ex. Gestern hatte ich Tennis spielen.

So is this a regional thing? Or is just another case where there is two ways to say the same exact thing. Or is their actually a slight difference in meaning!


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## starrynightrhone

driFDer said:


> Is it not a regional thing when talking about using sein/haben with the verb "spielen?" I thought people in southern Germany prefere the use of sein instead of haben. Or is that just in Austria or text books?


 
Hello Drifder, please correct me if I misunderstood you, but are you referring to 

"Gestern habe ich gespielt" 
versus
"Gestern war ich spielen"?

If so, you cannot just replace "sein" with "haben", because both sentences have a different meaning ("yesterday I played" vs. "yesterday I went playing" - at least that's how I'd understand it). 



driFDer said:


> Or is that just in Austria or text books?


 
I dunno  , but do you maybe have an example for this? It doesn't sound familiar to me. 




driFDer said:


> Ex. Gestern war ich Tennis spielen.
> Ex. Gestern hatte ich Tennis spielen.
> 
> So is this a regional thing? Or is just another case where there is two ways to say the same exact thing. Or is their actually a slight difference in meaning!


 
The second sentence is grammatically incorrect, so I don't think that that's a regional thing. Or maybe (I'm not sure, so let's wait for replies from people from Germany) some Germans regionally use "Gestern hatte ich Tennis gespielt"? I wouldn't say that though.


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## starrynightrhone

Another possibility would be (just came to my mind):

"Gestern habe ich Tennis gespielt", that's a perfectly fine sentence to me. 

Is that would you originally referred to ("sein" vs. "haben")?


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## beclija

driFDer said:


> Is it not a regional thing when talking about using sein/haben with the verb "spielen?" I thought people in southern Germany prefere the use of sein instead of haben. Or is that just in Austria or text books?
> 
> Ex. Gestern war ich Tennis spielen.
> Ex. Gestern hatte ich Tennis spielen.
> Instead: Gestern habe/hatte ich Tennis gespielt.
> 
> So is this a regional thing? Or is just another case where there is two ways to say the same exact thing. Or is their actually a slight difference in meaning!


It may be regional (although I don't think it is), but the difference is deeper than just using another auxiliary. 

"_Ich war Tennis spiel*en*_"(infinitive) means "I went to play tennis". "_Ich habe Tennis *ge*spiel*t*_"(past participle) is "I played Tennis". "_Ich bin Tennis gespielt_" (which may be what you're aiming at) is *wrong *whereever you go. The difference may be even more obvious if you use another example: "_Ich war essen_"= I went out to eat, I ate at restaurant, or at least at someone else's place (especially if you add "bei X"). "_Ich habe gegessen_"=I have eaten/ I ate.

I guess what got you confused is the regionally different use of auxiliaries with certain other verbs. While verbs of movement (_gehen, fliegen, kriechen, springen, rennen_; verbs like _schwimmen, segeln_ etc. if, and only if, emphasis is on movement from A to B rather than on doing an activity...) and certain verbs of transition of state (_erröten, austrocknen_, and of course _werden_) uniformly take "sein" for the perfect, and verbs for most other actions and events take "haben", there is a group of verbs that take "sein" in the South (roughly, Austria, Switzerland, Bavaria, Baden-Württenberg) and "haben" in central and Northern parts of Germany. These are verbs of "explicit non-movement" or positions of bodies in space: _sitzen, liegen, hängen, stehen_,...
While in Germany (maybe even in the regions where locally "sein" is used with these verbs), the version with "haben" is often considered the only standard one, Austrian and Swiss standards require "sein" (for example, the ÖWB, our "official" dictionary edited by the ministry of education doesn't even list the option of "haben" for _liegen _or _stehen_.)

Anyway, _spielen _as an action always takes "haben" independent of regional variation and dialects.


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## driFDer

Okay I understand now.  I did mess up thought earlier in conjugating "spielen."  I ment to write:

Gestern war ich Tennis gespielt. oder: Ich war gestern Tennis gespielt.
Gestern hatte ich Tennis gespielt. oder: Ich hatte gestern Tennis gespielt.

I do understand that sein is used when expressing movement.  But I translate both sentences above as: Yesterday I played tennis.  But I believe I was confusing them with the uses of haben/sein in sentences including: liegen, stehen, sitzen...etc where I know that in Austria or Bavaria they use sein as a helping verb instead of haben.  I think this is where my confusion and question came from.  But not to worry.  It's all clear now 

ex. Der Hund hat(ist) unter dem Tisch gelegen.
ex. Das Auto hat(ist) in der Garage gestanden.
ex. Du hast(bist) auf dem Stule gesessen.
ex. Das Bild hat(ist) an der Wand gehangen.


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## beclija

driFDer said:


> ex. Das Bild hat(ist) an der Wand gehangen.


Just for completeness: "hängen" has two meanings - the weak transitive verb hängen - hängte - gehängt meaning "to attach s-th to s-th (such that it ends up in a hanging position)" and the strong intransitive verb hängen - hing - gehangen meaning "to be in a hanging position". Only the later takes "sein" in the South. In fact, because many dialects conjugate both verbs according to the weak pattern, this may be the only difference between them.
"Ich habe das Bild an die Wand gehängt" - remains the same.
"Das Bild hat an der Wand gehangen" vs. Southern "Das Bild ist an der Wand gehangen".
Dialectal: "Das Bild ist an der Wand gehängt." (To be avoided in Standard German.)


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## beclija

driFDer said:


> I do understand that sein is used when expressing movement.  But I translate both sentences above as: Yesterday I played tennis.


"Ich war Tennis spielen" is literally "I was to play tennis" and means something like "I was out to play/playing tennis", and similarly with "Ich war essen" etc. So it doesn't have anything to do with the choice of the auxiliary (Hilfsverb) for the past.


> ex. Der Hund hat(ist) unter dem Tisch gelegen.


Note that "gelegen" can also be an adjective meaning "situated". So in superficially very similar sentences you find "ist... gelegen" also in the North:
"Hamburg ist an der Elbmündung gelegen." , but this is not a past tense form of "liegen".
"Hamburg hat an der Elbmündung gelegen.", or at least only possible under a rather peculiar scenario.


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## gaer

We are taught that using the "dictionary form" this way is wrong in German, period.

Ich bin schreiben
Ich war denken
Ich bin lachen

This leads us to sentences like this:

Ich bin lernen Deutsch in Schule in England. help! <horrible!>

So all of us who get the "rest of the story" are at least a bit shocked when we see: 

Results 1 - 8 of 8 for "Ich war Tennis spielen.
Results 1 - 10 of about 752 for "Ich war Fußball spielen.

In my opinion, this is the most important thing to remember:



Henryk said:


> Wenn man sagt: "Ich spiele gerade Tennis", _*dann kann es unklar sein, ob man ein Computerspiel namens "Tennis" spielt oder ob man auf dem Sportplatz ist.*_ In meinen Ohren ist "ich bin Tennisspielen" in dem Fall viel natürlicher als "ich spiele gerade Tennis".


 
Gaer


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## gaer

beclija said:


> "Ich war Tennis spielen" is literally "I was to play tennis" and means something like "I was out to play/playing tennis", and similarly with "Ich war essen" etc. So it doesn't have anything to do with the choice of the auxiliary (Hilfsverb) for the past.


I would not attempt to analyze this literally. 

I would simply memorize:


"Ich war Tennis spielen"="I was playing tennis" 
"Gestern war ich Tennis spielen"="I was playing tennis yesterday" 



Gaer


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## Whodunit

starrynightrhone said:


> Or maybe (I'm not sure, so let's wait for replies from people from Germany) some Germans regionally use "Gestern hatte ich Tennis gespielt"? I wouldn't say that though.


 
Of course, we say that. That's a perfect sentence in the Plusquamperfekt (pluperfect/past perfect), although you may not often come across such a construction in everyday spech.



gaer said:


> We are taught that using the "dictionary form" this way is wrong in German, period.
> 
> Ich bin schreiben
> Ich war denken
> Ich bin lachen


 
There are many verbs you can't use this way:

Ich bin denken/sein/haben/sehen/...

Verbs like "fragen" and "schreiben" would normally not be used in a "sein+infinitive" construction, however they could be employed in this context:

Ich bin mal eben Mutti fragen, was sie denkt.
I'm just about to go to mum what she thinks (about it).

Also, du bist dann den Brief schreiben, während ich in die Stadt gehe.
So, you're going out/away to to write the letter while I'm gonna go into town.

It can only be used with verbs describing an action that can be carried out in different places.



> Ich bin lernen Deutsch in Schule in England.  help! <horrible!>


 
One might use it this way:

Ich bin Deutsch in einer Schule in England lernen. (I went to learn German at school in England.)



> Results 1 - 8 of 8 for "Ich war Tennis spielen.
> Results 1 - 10 of about 752 for "Ich war Fußball spielen.


 
That doesn't surprise me at all. Try googling like this. "Arbeiten" is the most common verb where we use "sein+infinitive." 



gaer said:


> I would not attempt to analyze this literally.



I agree with Beclija's decision to express it in English as closely as possible to the German sentence. Maybe that's a way how English speakers understand the concept without trying to see any connection to the English "be+verb+ing" construction:

I'm watching TV. = Ich sehe gerade fern. ≠ Ich bin fernsehen.

Ich bin fernsehen. = I went to watch TV. ≠ I'm watching TV.


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## beclija

Whodunit said:


> Of course, we say that. That's a perfect sentence in the Plusquamperfekt (pluperfect/past perfect), although you may not often come across such a construction in everyday spech.


But aren't there some regions in Germany where people tend to generalize the past perfect for contexts where grammar requires only a simple past? I think that is what starrynightrhone is asking about.


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## Whodunit

beclija said:


> But aren't there some regions in Germany where people tend to generalize the past perfect for contexts where grammar requires only a simple past?


 
Yes, I often hear such sentence. People want to use the past perfect, but they start with "hatte" or "war." So they either have to rephrase it completely or use the past perfect tense:

Mensch, ich war doch vorhin schon mal dorthin ... gegangen. (the verb wouldn't be necessary here, but it may sound better to some)
Das hatte ich dir doch schon gesagt. (very common in my region)

One might say that there are two ways to conjugate the verb "haben" for the present perfect in my region:

Ich hab/hatt
Du hast/hattst
Er hat(t)
Wir ham/hattn
Ihr habt/hattet
Sie ham/hattn

They are often used interchangeably.



> I think that is what starrynightrhone is asking about.


 
I don't think so. I believe he was saying that he wouldn't use a sentence like "Ich hatte Tennis gespielt" because it sounds strange to him.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Ich bin fernsehen. = I went to watch TV. ≠ I'm watching TV.


I went to watch TV?" Really?  

Gaer


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## beclija

Genau. Ich kann sagen "ich bin fernsehen", wenn ich z.B. in einem Studentenheim wohne, in welchem es ein Fernsehgerät im Aufenthaltsraum, nicht aber auf den einzelnen Zimmern gibt und ich wegen des Fernsehens in diesem Aufenthaltsraum bin. Aber nicht, wenn ich an einem Ort, an dem ich mich ohnehin aufhalten würde, fernsehe.


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## gaer

beclija said:


> Genau. Ich kann sagen "ich bin fernsehen", wenn ich z.B. in einem Studentenheim wohne, in welchem es ein Fernsehgerät im Aufenthaltsraum, nicht aber auf den einzelnen Zimmern gibt und ich wegen des Fernsehens in diesem Aufenthaltsraum bin. Aber nicht, wenn ich an einem Ort, an dem ich mich ohnehin aufhalten würde, fernsehe.


Okay. I think I can follow that, but you said this:


			
				beclija said:
			
		

> "_Ich_ *war*_ Tennis spiel*en*_"(infinitive) means "I went to play tennis".


Who said this:


			
				who said:
			
		

> Ich _*bin*_ fernsehen. = I went to watch TV. ≠ I'm watching TV.


My question was about "went". Wouldn't that have to be something like: 
"I'm going to watch TV"
"I'm on my way to watch TV"
"I'm about to watch TV"

Do you see my confusion?

If you are in a dorm, for instance, and there is a student lounge with a TV, I'd assume you would say this before entering the lounge and sitting down to watch TV.

It's been a long time since I have been this completely lost. 

Gaer


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## beclija

gaer said:


> Okay. I think I can follow that, but you said this:
> 
> Who said this:
> 
> My question was about "went". Wouldn't that have to be something like:
> "I'm going to watch TV"
> "I'm on my way to watch TV"
> "I'm about to watch TV"
> 
> Do you see my confusion?
> 
> If you are in a dorm, for instance, and there is a student lounge with a TV, I'd assume you would say this before entering the lounge and sitting down to watch TV.


Actually, I wouldn't use "ich bin fernsehen" for "I am on my way to watch TV" but for "I am at the TV-watching place", say if someone calls me on the cell phone _while _I'm in the lounge. But then, I don't live in a dorm.


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## Whodunit

gaer said:


> Do you see my confusion?


 
Yes, I do. It's the same with me about "at/in school" and "at/in the school." There are four possibilities, and I can only use them by feel. I guess most often it sounds wrong to a native speaker. It's the same in German: We natives feel what it means but it is so hard to describe. 



> If you are in a dorm, for instance, and there is a student lounge with a TV, I'd assume you would say this before entering the lounge and sitting down to watch TV.


 
Well, now you got me thinking:

Let's assume, you and I are in a dorm, and I'm about to watch TV in another room:

Ich: Gaer, ich bin mal eben fernsehen. (Gaer, I'm gonna watch TV)

Now, a fellow occupant arrives and asks me where I have been the whole day.

Ich: Ach, ich war im Nachbarzimmer fernsehen. (Well, I was watching TV in the room next door)



> It's been a long time since I have been this completely lost.


 
Das kann ich mir vorstellen. Aber ich weiß nicht, wie ich es erklären soll.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Let's assume, you and I are in a dorm, and I'm about to watch TV in another room:


OK…
Ich: Gaer, ich bin mal eben fernsehen. (Gaer, I'm gonna watch TV)
[/quote]


			
				who said:
			
		

> Ich _*bin*_ fernsehen. = I went to watch TV. ≠ I'm watching TV.


That was my main problem!


> Now, a fellow occupant arrives and asks me where I have been the whole day.
> 
> Ich: Ach, ich war im Nachbarzimmer fernsehen. (Well, I was watching TV in the room next door)


Now it's clear.

One final note:

1) Yesterday I went to play tennis.
2) Yesterday I played tennis.

If there is no specific time mentioned, these sentences are interchangeable. However, if other information is added, they are no longer the same:

1) Yesterday I went to play tennis with my friend, but it was raining when we got to the court, so I'm going to try again tomorrow.
2) Yesterday I played tennis for two hours.

It's tricky, isn't it? The people who write me don't talk about watching TV. They tell me what they have seen (shows) on TV and in theatres, so I haven't ever seen the "bin + verb" construction. As you know, I don't hear German conversations, and those that are "written" are quite different. 


> Das kann ich mir vorstellen. Aber ich weiß nicht, wie ich es erklären soll.


You have explained it very well, I think. 

Gaer


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## gaer

beclija said:


> Actually, I wouldn't use "ich bin fernsehen" for "I am on my way to watch TV" but for "I am at the TV-watching place", say if someone calls me on the cell phone _while _I'm in the lounge. But then, I don't live in a dorm.


Perhaps this structure is not only informal but a bit "loose in meaning".

In English it does not matter where you are when watching TV. If someone calls me on a cellphone, I could say "I'm watching TV" if I'm in my living room, bedroom or in a doctor's office, waiting for an appointment.

I realize this thread started in English, but if you could write two or three sentences with the phrase in context, it would help. That's why who helped me so much. At least I know how he uses the phrase now. 

Gaer


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## Whodunit

gaer said:


> That was my main problem!


 
Hm, what we tried to convey by the "went to" paraphrasing is that I *just* went there and am *still* in the same place.

In English "I'm watching TV" doesn't mean that I'm about to go into another room or am already there. Wait, this makes me think of the two different situation we use the "sein+inf." construction in:

(1) Ich: Gaer, ich bin mal eben fernsehen/Fernsehen gucken. (this means that I'm about to go or am going to go watch TV; I could tell this to you)
(2) Ich: Gaer, ich bin fernsehen/Fernsehen gucken. (this means that I'm already in another room from you; I might scream to you from the other room)



> However, if other information is added, they are no longer the same:


 
Well, you see, English is no easier than German. 



> As you know, I don't hear German conversations, and those that are "written" are quite different.


 
Yes, the same goes for me, too. I've never been in a dorm with English speakers, so I can't tell by experience.



gaer said:


> In English it does not matter where you are when watching TV. If someone calls me on a cellphone, I could say "I'm watching TV" if I'm in my living room, bedroom or in a doctor's office, waiting for an appointment.


 
Yes, that's exactly what we were trying to explain. In English, "I'm watching TV" doesn't imply that I'm in another place than you. You can scream it from the room next door or sitting next to the person you're talking to. In German, only the former could be conveyed (plus the meaning of "I'm gonna watch TV"), the latter can't be expressed by "Ich bin fernsehen/Fernsehen gucken."

I hope it is at least a _little_ bit clearer now.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Well, you see, English is no easier than German.


Of course not. 


> Yes, that's exactly what we were trying to explain. In English, "I'm watching TV" doesn't imply that I'm in another place than you. You can scream it from the room next door or sitting next to the person you're talking to. In German, only the former could be conveyed (plus the meaning of "I'm gonna watch TV"), the latter can't be expressed by "Ich bin fernsehen/Fernsehen gucken."


Okay.

As you know "I'm going to" (gonna) always means that you are going to do something in the future. 

Gaer


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