# Thank you in advance.



## panjandrum

When I first came across this expression, when I first arrived in WordReference, I thought it was really strange.

It seemed to me to be a way of saving effort. "I'll include thanks in advance so that I don't have to give thanks when I get an answer."

Since then, I have come to realise that it is meant sincerely, and that thanks are also (usually) given for the answer.

But still, it seems strange to me, and I am certain I have never used an anticipatory thanksgiving in any letter or e-mail I have sent.

I am now wondering if this is a cultural phenomenon?
Is it something that I don't do because of where I live?
Is it something that I don't do because I am me?

Would you usually say "Thanks in advance," where you are:
... in business communications,
... in personal letters,
... in e-mails.


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## cuchuflete

How does this differ from the ending of many a business letter,

"Thank you for your kind attention."  

​ This presupposes that the reader will provide attention, kind or otherwise, to the contents of the letter.


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## belén

In Spanish it is very normal to say "gracias por adelantado" (literally "thank you in advance") and it really means "I thank you because I know you are going to take the effort of answering my question, my letter ..."


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## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> How does this differ from the ending of many a business letter,
> 
> "Thank you for your kind attention."  ​This presupposes that the reader will provide attention, kind or otherwise, to the contents of the letter.



No, what it presupposes is that the reader has read all the way to the end, and if they haven't then the phrase doesn't get seen.


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## DDT

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> How does this differ from the ending of many a business letter,
> 
> "Thank you for your kind attention."
> 
> ​ This presupposes that the reader will provide attention, kind or otherwise, to the contents of the letter.


True.
But since I am among the "thank-you-in-advance" ones, I have to say that it's because I think no one is supposed to help me or something. So I am grateful indeed whenever I ask someone for something and I get help - an answer in the case of WR. And I also post a second thanks after the answer, it is normal to me 

DDT


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## panjandrum

My sense is the same as Tony's, back a post or two.

I'll thank you for reading my letter, perhaps, but I won't thank you for answering until you have answered. What an ingrate.

I really don't want to discourage anyone from what they consider to be a genuine courtesy, but consider these views:


> Don't:
> [...]
> Use the phrase "thank you in advance" in your complimentary close. It's standard practice to encourage readers to take a desired action by thanking them before they've actually done it, but "in advance" can sound presumptious.


*LINK*

*Alternatively, the sales pitch.*


> But, as you'll learn in this article, if you want to become an expert persuader and have people going out of their way to make you happy, a simple "thank you in advance" is the very best insurance policy you can buy.


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## Etcetera

In Russia, it's absolutely normal to say, Заранее спасибо! - and after you have received the help you've asked for, you should thank those who helped you once more. 



			
				panjandrum said:
			
		

> Would you usually say "Thanks in advance," where you are:
> ... in business communications,
> ... in personal letters,
> ... in e-mails.


Well, I usually use "Thanks in advance" in formal contexts, for example, when I am writing to my Internet service provider with some question. In informal contexts, I normally say, just "Thanks". 
Of course, if I thank somebody 'in advance', I thank them afterwards for what they've done for me. And I've never felt this form of courtesy as something odd, so I was rather surprised to see this topic.


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## Dandee

I think that to say "Thank you in advance" is a fine or subtle way to motivate to whom you have asked for something to give the answer/reply you need.
Excuse my poor english.
Dandee.


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## cubaMania

panjandrum, I'm glad you opened this subject.  I have thought of doing so many times.  As a USA speaker of English, when I see "Thanks/thank you in advance" on a request for a favor my first reaction is "Well that's presumptuous!" followed by "Are they so lazy they don't want to have to express appreciation if I do them this favor? or are they trying to manipulate me?"

In these forums, however, I have noticed that large numbers of native speakers of Spanish (and possibly of other languages as well) use the equivalent in their native language, "gracias por adelantado" or "gracias de antemano" so when I read "thanks/thank you in advance" from someone whose native language is not English, I put aside those critical thoughts and ascribe the phrase to cultural differences.  However, now that you have posted, I can chime in and say that, at least to some people, the phrase in English gives a negative impression.

I would not ask someone for some kind of favor and put "Thanks/thank you in advance", whether in person, by telephone, by e-mail, by letter, or by telegram.  To me it sounds impolite.  I would sometimes put something like "I will be most appreciative if you are able to...." but I would reserve the thanks until after receiving a positive response.

Others may not agree.  For instance here are two previous threads where some (not all) English-speakers express an opposite opinion:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=136497

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=64402

I'm in agreement also with maxiogee's observation above that ending a letter with "thank you for your kind attention" is not the same thing at all.  That phrase thanks the person for having taken the time to read the letter.

And Dandee's post:


> I think that to say "Thank you in advance" is a fine or subtle way to motivate to whom you have asked for something to give the answer/reaply you need.


adds credence to the interpretation of the phrase as an attempt to manipulate--but in my perception it is neither "fine" nor "subtle."

Even though the English-speaking population may be divided in their opinions on this subject, I think it is a useful thing for those learning English to know that some, perhaps many, English-speakers will react negatively to such a phrase when being asked for a favor.

So thanks (not in advance) for bringing up this subject.


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## Dandee

cubaMania said:
			
		

> And Dandee's post:
> adds credence to the interpretation of the phrase as an attempt to manipulate--but in my perception it is neither "fine" nor "subtle."quote]
> 
> I didn't want to mean "to manipulate". I would say "adds credence to the interpretation of the phrase as an attempt to stimulate ......, because I can't really see any bad intention in saying "thank you in advance".
> I have used it a few times and that was because I wanted to thank for an answer I supposed surely would come.
> 
> Regards
> Dandee.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Hello there,

In French, we have "merci d'avance" which is quite nice. But we have also this: "merci de <+ verb>". For instance "merci de donner suite le plus rapidement possible à ce mail". This phrase I abhor as it means you have to obey asap to the sender. This one is not nice at all !
Don't know if I've explained the differences clearly enough, but they are really two opposite ways of saying with not the same intentions.
Does it make sense?


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## cyanista

I don't think it's wrong or impolite to say "Thanks in advance". The author doesn't necessarily expect that you do this or that, but is grateful if you care to do it.
Another phraze sounds much more manipulative to me. In Germany it's becoming more and more common to hear/read things like that:
"Ladies and gentlemen. due to delays in traffic operations the train ABC will be about 20 minutes late. *Thank you for your understanding.*" (Danke für Ihr Verständnis.)
They no longer apologize for inconveniences, they just expect you to have understanding for any kind of problems! Well, that's kind of impertinent...


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## Etcetera

I agree, Cyanista! That sounds really nasty. Of course, I understand that things can go wrong occasionally, but still, why not say, "We apologise for the inconvenience"? It sounds much more nice!


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## maxiogee

In this thread (and in the "Thanks beforehand" thread on the English Only forum) people are using the word "say" in relation to these phrases.



> In Russia, it's absolutely normal to say, Заранее спасибо!! - and after you have received the help you've asked for, you should thank those who helped you once more.




Does anyone actually speak these words - or similar words of anticipatory thankfulness - in real life?


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## DDT

Etcetera said:
			
		

> I agree, Cyanista! That sounds really nasty. Of course, I understand that things can go wrong occasionally, but still, why not say, "We apologise for the inconvenience"? It sounds much more nice!


It's exactly the same in the Parisian métro: whenever there's a delay or something the standard phrase at the end of an announcement is "Merci de votre compréhension" (Thanks for your understanding)...sort of unpleasant when you risk to miss your train because of that...


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## Etcetera

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Does anyone actually speak these words - or similar words of anticipatory thankfulness - in real life?


Are you asking about the use of these words in daily speech?
In actual speech, the use of them depends on the situation. It seems to me that normally, we say words of thankfulness when it is supposed that the help we ask for will come a bit later. For example, such a phone conversation:
- Would you please bring me that book we have to read for our exam?
- OK, I'll bring it.
- Thank you a lot!
(I'm not sure if it's exactly what you mean). 
Actually, such polite forms of request are widely used where I live, among my friends. My circle isn't so representative for Russia, though.


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## DDT

maxiogee said:
			
		

> In this thread (and in the "Thanks beforehand" thread on the English Only forum) people are using the word "say" in relation to these phrases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone actually speak these words - or similar words of anticipatory thankfulness - in real life?



Just a matter of personal style, I guess.
For example, whenever I ask for some information in the street I normally greet, then thank the person for his time - yes, in advance  - and thank again before leaving
It is a fact it really depends on cases, though. You cannot thank in advance the whole time, but I like to do that when possible since no one is supposed to do something for me and I really appreciate the time someone is devoting to me

DDT


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## Etcetera

DDT said:
			
		

> For example, whenever I ask for some information in the street, I normally greet, then thank the person for his time - yes, in advance  - and thank again before leaving.


That's interesting... 
I usually say to this person, "Excuse me...", and then ask my question. And of course, I thank them before leaving.


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## maxiogee

Etcetera said:
			
		

> Are you asking about the use of these words in daily speech?


Yes, words expressing thanks in advance.




			
				etcetera said:
			
		

> For example, such a phone conversation:
> - Would you please bring me that book we have to read for our exam?
> - OK, I'll bring it.
> - Thank you a lot!
> (I'm not sure if it's exactly what you mean).
> Actually, such polite forms of request are widely used where I live, among my friends. My circle isn't so representative for Russia, though.



We say things like that too, but you are not really thanking them in advance for what they will do, you are thanking them for what they have said. You wouldn't say (or would you?)…
- Would you please bring me that book we have to read for our exam?
- OK, I'll bring it.
- Thanks in advance!


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## Etcetera

maxiogee said:
			
		

> We say things like that too, but you are not really thanking them in advance for what they will do, you are thanking them for what they have said. You wouldn't say (or would you?)…
> - Would you please bring me that book we have to read for our exam?
> - OK, I'll bring it.
> - Thanks in advance!


Why, it's possible to say that. Rather seldom, though - but it sounds absolutely OK, even in informal conexts.


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## Agnès E.

Mmm... As Karine pointed out, _Merci d'avance_ (said alone) is, in French, a very courteous and kind way to ask for help or to ask someone to do something. Most French foreros would translate it directly to English when requesting for help in the French-English forum, I'm afraid...genuily meaning it in the most polite and gentle way. 

The same people usually thank _again_ after having got the necessary information, still astounded to have been granted the most efficient and fast support.


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## Etcetera

So, what would you say? Should one avoid saying 'Thanks in advance' when addressing an English? And what's the correct form for a request?
I'm in a mess, really!


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## gato2

Yo solo utilizaria "Gracias de antemano" si es algo que doy por sentado que la persona o organizacion a la que mando la carta va a hacer lo que le pido. 

Por ejemplo si pidiera folletos de propaganda de sus productos a una empresa, seguramente la emplearia porque doy por sentado que la empresa estara encantado de enviarmelos.

Nunca lo utilizaria, en cambio, para pedir un favor de verdad.


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## Vanda

> I am now wondering if this is a cultural phenomenon?


 
Panj, now that I've read the non-Romance languages people's response to that, I think yes, it's a cultural phenomenon, and I had thought that was usual for all languages.   We say _obrigado/a de antemão_. I conclude by Etcetera's answer it includes the Slavic languages as well, if I can generalize. Agnès said it for all of us, 





> ...is... a very courteous and kind way to ask for help or to ask someone to do something.


_Au contraire_ of being impolite or manipulative it shows the person is a well-mannered one.


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## geve

I am guilty of saying "thanks in advance".  It can mean two things depending on the situation:

- Asking something from a company of which I am client: there I am definitely being presomptuous by hoping they will do what I ask, because, well, they ought to (change the defectuous modem, send the information they said they would send, remove my name from their blooming spamming list...)

- In business/formal e-mails: I see it as a sort of compulsory _formule de politesse_ (can't remember the English for that!) It is just a way to conclude a message where I have asked something, and I simply mean that I would be grateful if they answer.

I use it the same way here (the 2nd one I mean!): if I write "thanks" or "thanks in advance" when I post a thread, what I mean is "I would be grateful for any information you could provide on this topic". I would find it a bit dry if I didn't write anything.


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## panjandrum

Thanks for the comments - your responses are very interesting.

For many of you it is a matter of courtesy to include "Thanks in advance" in your requests.  Does that mean you think that requests here (such as mine in starting this thread) are a bit discourteous?

If I am writing, in English, to a hotel in Italy should I include "Thanks in advance" in my e-mail?

 Thanks in advance


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## Vanda

> Does that mean you think that requests here (such as mine in starting this thread) are a bit discourteous?


 
Of course not! When I didn't suspect this is cultural I would imply it be a personal style whether to include or not the expression.


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## geve

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Thanks for the comments - your responses are very interesting.
> 
> For many of you it is a matter of courtesy to include "Thanks in advance" in your requests. Does that mean you think that requests here (such as mine in starting this thread) are a bit discourteous?
> 
> If I am writing, in English, to a hotel in Italy should I include "Thanks in advance" in my e-mail?


Well, to be honest... I wouldn't say discourteous, but when I first came to these forums and saw that some opening posts included thanks and others did not, I felt that there was something missing in the latter - something that would conclude the message, it could be a "thanks" or a "saludos", or even the poster's name...
Then I saw that it was pretty common here and thought that it could be a different perspective on internet communication, or just a matter of personal style. I'm glad to learn that it might be cultural after all! 



			
				panjandrum said:
			
		

> Thanks in advance


On the other hand, 2 smileys seem a bit phony


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## gotitadeleche

I say "thanks in advance" because to me it seems like a normal way to end a business letter, or any letter where you have requested something. But especially in this forum, with so many posts flying around and moving to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th pages so rapidly, I am concerned that someone will answer me, and I don't get a chance to thank them until later (because I have gone home for the night, weekend, etc.), and they may never see my thank you. By thanking them in advance, I know they will at least see it once, if they don't see it after I receive an answer.


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## brian

maxiogee said:
			
		

> - Would you please bring me that book we have to read for our exam?
> - OK, I'll bring it.
> - Thanks in advance!



Only in formal letters/e-mails do I thank in advance, and maybe occasionally on these forums since it's so widespread, but _never_ do I use "in advance" in casual (or non-casual, for that matter) speaking.  The above quote would never happen.

What I think the case is (as a southern American English speaker), it's polite and normal and courtesy to thank under almost any condition after any request, whether it is granted or promised or neither--_unless_ the person being asked responds with a mean "NO!"  For example:

Would you please bring me that book?
Sure.
Great...thanks!

Would you please bring me that book?
No, I lent it to someone.
Oh that's ok...thanks anyway!

These are customary. But never have I heard _in conversation_:

Would you please bring me that book?
Sure.
Thanks in advance!

And I've never heard anyone thank anyone before waiting for the response, unless they're in some sort of mad rush.  The thanking generally ends the conversation.


Brian


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## ILT

In México it is very normal to use Gracias de antemano, and I don't think we use it in a manipulative way but it would be kind of rude to end a commercial letter without some kind of thank you note at the end. We even include warmest regards, best considerations or something like that (even if we have never ever had contact with that person before). As I read this very interesting thread I realized that it is cultural, as I've had written communication with colleagues from other countries and this phrase hasn't come up with some of them; maybe it is just a matter of personal preference too.

Now, in daily speech, we use it too:
- ¿Pasas por mí mañana?
- ¡Claro!
- Mil gracias, no sabes cuánto te lo agradezco (even though s/he hasn't picked me up yet).

- Could you e-mail me that picture of XXX?
- Sure! I'll do it tonight as I get home.
- Thanks! (even though s/he has not e-mailed me the picture I requested yet).

BTW, thanks for opening this thread


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## cubaMania

ILT, I think your two examples are a different matter.  In each one your have received a positive response to your request.  I don't see that as "Thanks in advance" I see that as "Thanks for agreeing to help me."

Here's "Thanks in advance":
I'd like you to e-mail me this picture.  Thanks in advance.

Here's "Thanks for agreeing to help me."
Could you e-mail me the picture?  I would really appreciate it.
OK, sure, I'll send it tomorrow.
Thanks! (s/he has agreed to do the favor.)

It is obvious from this and previous threads that opinions among English-speakers are divided on the subject of "Thank you in advance."  Expressions of gratitude are common in English as well.  We could end our request by saying "I would really appreciate it if you could do this favor for me."  That has an "if" in it, so it's not "Thanks in advance" which to some of us English-speakers sounds like you are assuming we will do this for you.  The "thank you in advance" somehow implies that we are expected or obligated to perform this service, and strikes a negative chord in some of us.


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## Etcetera

Vanda said:
			
		

> _Au contraire_ of being impolite or manipulative it shows the person is a well-mannered one.


I agree! I agree wholeheartedly!
I don't want to say that, if a person _doesn't_ say this 'Thanks in advance', I would consider them to be rude or ill-mannered. But if they _do_ say these three words, it only speaks in their favour!
BTW, the general tone of a request often shows the intentions of the person very clearly, so we can say whether in this particular case 'Thanks in advance' is used in order to 'manipulate', or it only shows the politeness of the person.


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## panjandrum

I have seen several people comment on this when posting in English Only.  I feel I should add a comment here 

It has been interesting to see that "Thanks in advance" in some form is a matter of courtesy for many of you. So, just as I hope that you don't feel that my request without "Thanks in advance" is lacking in some way, I now understand what's behind your "Thanks in advance".

Please don't feel inhibited about writing Thanks in advance at the end of EO posts


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## Thomas1

In Poland we also use "thanks/thank you in advance". Most often in writing. This is quite normal for us. 
I use it almost always when I ask about something on this forums.
Personally, I find it courteous and if I don't put it (or something similar) in my mesage I feel it misses something that I should've inserted. 

Curious, are there any other languages in which this "thank you/thanks in advance" inclusion is thought to be impolite?

Tom


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## Poetic Device

The only time that I thank in advance is when it has to deal with my business or I am calling someone for something and have to leave a message.  I very often put at the bottom of the e-mail:  "thank you for your time and cooperation" or something along those lines. If it is a phone call, I say that I apriciate them taking the time for me.


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## ampurdan

Isn't the word "please" rather manipulative and sentimental? 

Seriously, I'm astonished to read that "thank you in advance" can be annoying for those to whom it is addressed. First I put it down quite often in these fora. Then I just put "thanks", which, after all, it's just the same: you are thanking beforehand. I also put "I would appreciate if...", which to me, it's just the same. Anyway, from now on, I will only use the third one.

Thank you for your attention.

P.S. I've heard several times the phrase "thank you for your understanding" from the headphones of public services and never really thought about its meaning before, but you're right, that IS presumptuous.


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## hohodicestu

Hi,

I don’t like the phrase “Thanks in advance” because it sounds like, for instance, if you answer my questions I’ll thank you; otherwise I won’t; even though you spend some time in reading the posts, I won’t appreciate it because you didn’t respond.  So instead of “Thanks is advance” I would just simply use “Thank you”.


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## foxfirebrand

Thanks (_post factum) _for raising an issue that I hadn't really regarded consciously.  I don't use "thanks in advance," but am not really bothered by people who do-- it's obviously a convention like the "thanks for not smoking" signs you see in the U.S.

I too don't see the logic in it-- taken at face value, it's a contradiction in terms.  One would as soon admonish someone not to do something after it had happened.
.


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## rsweet

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> Hello there,
> 
> In French, we have "merci d'avance" which is quite nice.



I use this when I'm in the French-English forum. It seemed to be one of those formulae for politeness in French. I don't use it in English though. Now that I think of it, it does strike me as a bit presumptuous. I'll take KaRiNe's word that it doesn't give offense in French.


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## geve

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Thanks (_post factum) _for raising an issue that I hadn't really regarded consciously.


And _I_ blame Panjandrum for having raised the issue... Now I can't use "thanks in advance" without seeing that it _is_ presomptuous. 
Once you've thought about the meaning behind words that you used to say mechanically, there is no turning back: the meaning is there, always!! (I am not seriously blaming you Panj  This could have happened any time of course, just like I can't hear "Thank you for your understanding" in the subway without smirking)

I would so like the same thing to happen to shop assistants with their favourite sentence when a client enters the shop: "Je vous laisse faire un tour ?" (= "I let you do a tour" - to which I always want to reply "Why, will I be charged for the second tour of the shop?")


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## panjandrum

Please don't stop using the courtesies that you feel are appropriate.

Now that I realise this is a genuine cultural thing, I read it in the way it was intended.  Such civilised niceties don't always bear close inspection.  I mean, I'm not really
_Yours_
though of course I do mean my post
_Sincerely,_
Panj


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## alisonp

What I'm surprised not to see mentioned here is the case in which I and a lot of people I know use "TIA" (which equally can be interpreted as "thanks in anticipation" - less presumptuous, because you're hoping rather than expecting ).  I subscribe to a lot of translation-related mailing-lists, and we're always asking questions along the lines of "what do you think would be a good translation for XXX?".  Some people feel they have to reply with a thank-you to every single person's answer, which then causes a lot of "dross" posts, which annoys some people because it increases the number of useless emails they end up opening, and then *they* write annoyed emails to all the list members saying "Do you really have to send an email that just says "Thanks"?" ... and so on and so forth.

So, most of us just put "TIA" when we're asking a favour, and reply to people's comments only when they've raised additional points we need to pick up on.  It makes life smoother for everyone.


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## Silvia B

Alison you are right. 

I did not read the whole thread, anyway I think that thanking in advance avoids the necessity of sending new mail/messages later and, in my opinion, it is also a polite way to ask for a favour. Like: I know you will be spending time to read my message / help me, so I want to thank you now already.

I use it very often (dare say always) and I feel it is used with courtesy, to let people know that you really appreciate their help and that it is very kind of them to answer as soon as possible with the same courtesy.

While at work it is almost essential...


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## maxiogee

Silvia B said:
			
		

> I use it very often (dare say always) and I feel it is used with courtesy, to let people know that you really appreciate their help and *that it is very kind of them to answer as soon as possible* with the same courtesy.



I must say, I would prefer a sincere 'thank you' after the event than one which I felt was given in advance to 'encourage' a prompt response.
I will respond to a request when I am able, or when I have consulted my reference books. 
Asking nicely won't get me to do it sooner, not asking nicely won't slow my response.


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## Silvia B

maxiogee said:
			
		

> I must say, I would prefer a sincere 'thank you' after the event than one which I felt was given in advance to 'encourage' a prompt response.
> I will respond to a request when I am able, or when I have consulted my reference books.
> Asking nicely won't get me to do it sooner, not asking nicely won't slow my response.



You read it in the wrong way, Maxiogee. It is just to make them feel useful and kind to do what they are doing. It's a kind way to ask for something, to let them know you appreciate their effort, just that.
Then I added this because I felt people feel glad when they are treated well, and, even if you may think it is not true, they will help kind people before others.
That's a fact.
Or an opinion?

ps. I am coming to Dublin in a week time! Sorry, I am just too happy...


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## Vanda

I don't expect a person from a different culture of mine to use the expressions I - or any other person from my culture does. So, using: thanks in advance, thanks, and even when there is no thanks I still help the very same way I always do if I am able to do it.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

If we are thinking of polite automatic phrases or expressions, as Geve pointed out, we should avoid all of them. 
And so what? No polite way of saying things and a little bit less hypocrisy, maybe? What about "would you please..." doing something? (s'il te/vous plaît). What, if this is not _pleasant_ for me?  I still often do it. Why? Because it's asked in a polite way, maybe.  This is not presumptuous at all.
As we are animals with social interactions, we still need to distinguish polite/not polite ways of asking things.


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## Poetic Device

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> If we are thinking of polite automatic phrases or expressions, as Geve pointed out, we should avoid all of them.
> And so what? No polite way of saying things and a little bit less hypocrisy, maybe? What about "would you please..." doing something? (s'il te/vous plaît). What, if this is not _pleasant_ for me?  I still often do it. Why? Because it's asked in a polite way, maybe.  This is not presumptuous at all.
> As we are animals with social interactions, we still need to distinguish polite/not polite ways of asking things.


 
YES!!!


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## maxiogee

Cross-posting 

--edited to display the thread and not the post --


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## ampurdan

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> If we are thinking of polite automatic phrases or expressions, as Geve pointed out, we should avoid all of them.
> And so what? No polite way of saying things and a little bit less hypocrisy, maybe? What about "would you please..." doing something? (s'il te/vous plaît). What, if this is not _pleasant_ for me?  I still often do it. Why? Because it's asked in a polite way, maybe.  This is not presumptuous at all.
> As we are animals with social interactions, we still need to distinguish polite/not polite ways of asking things.


 
That's exactly how I feel about it. I can accept the fact that thanking in advance can be a cultural phenomenon, but I would like* someone could explain me why a "thank you in advance" set expression is more presumptuous than a "please" one? Indeed, a simple "please" can be used in a very bold and disagreeable way. I think politeness can always be presumptuously.


*Should I've said "want" instead?


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## geve

I agree that polite forms/set expressions can always sound presomptuous. But we human beings and social animals, react to what we've been taught to construe as nice/not nice. There even is a rule on this forum for that! _#3 Be polite. The use of "hello", “hi” and "thank you" are welcome_ 

Oh sure, people who come and ask "what's the French for XYZ" will probably get an answer, but maybe they would have got a more detailed one, or from more members, had they written a simple "hello". Because not everyone of us is indifferent to marks of courtesy  ... as hypocritical and conventional as they might be. 


			
				ampurdan said:
			
		

> I can accept the fact that thanking in advance can be a cultural phenomenon, but I would like* someone could explain me why a "thank you in advance" set expression is more presumptuous than a "please" one?


My guess as a non-native and (former?) user of "Thank you in advance":

_Please_ = I would be grateful _if_ you feel like doing what I asked
_Thank you_ = I am grateful that you did it (that you read my question, as a start!)
_Thank you in advance_ = You _will_ (must) do what I asked and I thank you for that
Have I got this right?


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## Thomas1

geve said:
			
		

> My guess as a non-native and (former?) user of "Thank you in advance":
> 
> _Please_ = I would be grateful _if_ you feel like doing what I asked to me _please_ is a part of request that itensifies it and makes it sound more polite I don't use it in thanks
> _Thank you_ = I am grateful that you did it (that you read my question, as a start!) Yes
> _Thank you in advance_ = You _will_ (must) do what I asked and I thank you for that I thank someone in advance since I know it's quite likely that someone will respond and help me; even though I don't treat it as you must do it beacuse I used this phrase; I can do it, it's still your choice
> Have I got this right?


I have exactly the same dilemma, to use or not to use, this is a question.  I alwaystreated _thank you in advance_ as a courtious expression at the end of a letter, message, etc. I guess the interpretation of the above, say, set pharses of expressing thankfulness is a very individual matter. Urging one may put in an uneasy situation or sound presomptious to the person who is a receiver of this message. I guess it depends on cultural backgrounds too but all in al it is us who decide how to interpret such things. I also think that frequent usage of such expressions by people dealing with business, marketing, etc. could spoil their resonance at receivers who now consider them a part of a jargon which is (ab)used by some to make a good effect on people only to achieve their goals.


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## ampurdan

geve said:
			
		

> My guess as a non-native and (former?) user of "Thank you in advance":
> 
> _Please_ = I would be grateful _if_ you feel like doing what I asked
> _Thank you_ = I am grateful that you did it (that you read my question, as a start!)
> _Thank you in advance_ = You _will_ (must) do what I asked and I thank you for that


You must be right. Anyway, I could word it this way:

please: You will do what I asked, but I don't want to look rude when asking.

While in the context of this forum, whenever I've used this set expression:

thank you in advance: You have no obligation to do what I ask, that's why I thank you now any effort you invest in answering me (obviously, where no effort is invested, the "thank you" is not applicable).


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## Poetic Device

So, how do the majority of you wish for someone to request a favor of you?  "Gimme the information or else!" or "I'm having trouble with ______.  Can anyone assist me with it.  I would really appriciate it."


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## maxiogee

Poetic Device said:
			
		

> So, how do the majority of you wish for someone to request a favor of you?  "Gimme the information or else!" or "I'm having trouble with ______.  Can anyone assist me with it.  I would really appriciate it."



Post by QAZ
Hi, I'm having trouble with *qwertyuiop*, could someone please help me with it?

Post by WSX
Hiya QAZ, welcome to the forum.
*qwertyuiop* is … *asdfghjkl*

Post by EDC
Hiya QAZ,
I disagree with WSX
*qwertyuiop* is … *zxcvbnm* - especially on a Tuesday!

Post by QAZ
Thank you both for your help.


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## geve

ampurdan said:
			
		

> While in the context of this forum, whenever I've used this set expression:
> 
> thank you in advance: You have no obligation to do what I ask, that's why I thank you now any effort you invest in answering me (obviously, where no effort is invested, the "thank you" is not applicable).


Yes, that's how I had been using the expression, too. My post #52 was just a guess of how it could be perceived by some.


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## Bran Muffin

I would not thank them at all unless they gave me what I wanted or was looking for.


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## Chaska Ñawi

Bran Muffin said:
			
		

> I would not thank them at all unless they gave me what I wanted or was looking for.



How nice to see your genuine appreciation of other peoples' efforts on your behalf, whether those efforts yield results or not.  

You may wish to review our rules before you post further in this forum, particularly Rule 3.


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## Bran Muffin

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> How nice to see your genuine appreciation of other peoples' efforts on your behalf, whether those efforts yield results or not.
> 
> You may wish to review our rules before you post further in this forum, particularly Rule 3.


 
I did not say that I would not be polite. I would say please and so on but I just don't see the point of thanking someone that is not going to help me.


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## Poetic Device

Bran Muffin said:
			
		

> I did not say that I would not be polite. I would say please and so on but I just don't see the point of thanking someone that is not going to help me.


 
Straight and to the point with no emotions, eh?


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## foxfirebrand

You have to be polite here?  What about rule #14, against pretending to be something that you are not?

Back to the topic-- how about "Thank you for at least reading this far?"
.


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## cubaMania

Bran Muffin said:
			
		

> I did not say that I would not be polite. I would say please and so on but I just don't see the point of thanking someone that is not going to help me.


 
Hey, Bran Muffin, pay no attention to the rude responses.  You are making perfect sense to me, and I don't interpret your comments as indicating any intention not to be polite.


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## Bran Muffin

Thank you for that.  Honestly, what is the sense of thanking someone who does not help you?  Isn't that kind of stupid?


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## brian

It depends on how you see "help."  If the person made an effort on my behalf, regardless of his success, and therefore regardless of the amount of help was afforded me, I'd still thank him.  Not every effort of someone to help you will turn out fruitful and indeed help you, but it makes sense to me to thank anyway.

If you ask a favor of someone and they refuse, then it may or may not be ok to thank or not thank.  That's a judgment call.  If the person has good reason to not help, I'll still say "Thanks anyway."

I take it as more of a "I appreciate your having at least heard me out."


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## cubaMania

Bran Muffin said:
			
		

> Thank you for that. Honestly, what is the sense of thanking someone who does not help you? Isn't that kind of stupid?


 
Actually it is not stupid. You are making the same mistake as those who responded rudely to you. Apparently, judging from this thread, it's a cultural thing. So each side needs to accept that the other side has a different way of defining what is "polite" and stop accusing others of being impolite or stupid because they don't share the same cultural viewpoint. In my cultural milieu it is NOT considered polite to say "Thanks in advance." No, we are not impolite--we are polite in the manner of our own culture. We say "please" we say "thank you" we say "we would very much appreciate if you could do xxxx" we say "thank you for your time" we say "thank you for considering my request" we say "any help you can give would be most welcome" we say ... oh well a whole long, long list of polite phrases, but for the most part we DON"T say "thank you in advance." The rationale has been discussed above. In other cultural milieus it is considered polite to say "Thank you advance." Well, OK then.


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## Eugens

The problem is, I think, that this all leaves us without a "correct", "unintruding" place to thank people for their help. 

Some people don't like to be thanked in the public thread because it makes it look "clustered" (correct adjective? I mean "full of unnecessary posts") or because they receive e-mails from WR without any new information apart from "thank you".

Some don't like to be thanked via PM because it may seem to them too personal or because "thank-you PMs" use up the free space of their PMs' box and they have to spend time deleting them.

I used to think that the solution to this was to thank in advance in the initial posts, but now I see that that may also be impolite.

From now on, I will just say "please" in the first post and after a series of responses, post a single "thank you", even if that clusters the thread a little. I can't simply conceive the idea of not thanking the kind people of this place anywhere.


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## Poetic Device

Can't the people that are that worried about thanking and giving recognition just say some quick little thing in their signature?  That won't cause the threads to be that cluttered with "needless thanks."


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## Bran Muffin

cubaMania said:


> Actually it is not stupid. You are making the same mistake as those who responded rudely to you. Apparently, judging from this thread, it's a cultural thing. So each side needs to accept that the other side has a different way of defining what is "polite" and stop accusing others of being impolite or stupid because they don't share the same cultural viewpoint. In my cultural milieu it is NOT considered polite to say "Thanks in advance." No, we are not impolite--we are polite in the manner of our own culture. We say "please" we say "thank you" we say "we would very much appreciate if you could do xxxx" we say "thank you for your time" we say "thank you for considering my request" we say "any help you can give would be most welcome" we say ... oh well a whole long, long list of polite phrases, but for the most part we DON"T say "thank you in advance." The rationale has been discussed above. In other cultural milieus it is considered polite to say "Thank you advance." Well, OK then.


I am not saying to be rude.  I am saying that there is no sense in thanking a mass of people when most of them won't help you.  To prove my point, I have been looking at a lot of the threads, and most of them have like 400 views but only 75 replies.  So you just thanked a few people that were window shopping.  There is no sense in that.  you might as well say "thanks for nothing."


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## GenJen54

Bran Muffin said:
			
		

> am saying that there is no sense in thanking a mass of people when most of them won't help you.


To you, this practice makes no sense.  To others, it may.  

It is obvious that not only is this a matter of "culture," but really one of "personal culture," and is a preference based not on logic, but on what one considers to be polite or impolite.

Speaking of which, the tone of this thread is starting to become impolite, so I would suggest that we stop with the personal judgments and be more accepting of what others deem acceptable in this situation.


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## .   1

Bran Muffin said:


> I am not saying to be rude. I am saying that there is no sense in thanking a mass of people when most of them won't help you. To prove my point, I have been looking at a lot of the threads, and most of them have like 400 views but only 75 replies. So you just thanked a few people that were window shopping. There is no sense in that. you might as well say "thanks for nothing."


It is possible that the appreciation being expressed is directed only at those who read the post.
If I am trying to proffer information I do not require a response to ensure that communication is made.
Many people reading a post will be caused to think even if they do not respond.  Some will even change a thought pattern but will still not respond.
Thank you in advance
sounds friendly and inclusive and understanding that a person need not respond in order to keep a thread alive.

I suspect that a thread would be allowed to remain open with very few responses if the thread had a large number of views indicating a level of interest beyond that indicated by the few responses.

Some see 'Thank you in advance' in a positive light and others see 'Thank you in advance' in a negative light.

I suspect that I will choose to spend more of my time with some rather than others.

.,,


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## ampurdan

. said:


> I suspect that I will choose to spend more of my time with some rather than others.


 
Sure, but maybe it won't have anything to do with their feelings about "thanking in advance". Does it really make a difference?

By the way, would it sound strange: "Thanks in case you answer"?


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## .   1

ampurdan said:


> Sure, but maybe it won't have anything to do with their feelings on "thanking in advance". Does it really make a difference?
> 
> By the way, would it sound strange: "Thanks in case you answer"?


I would not respond to such a dismissive statement in other than a negative manner.

.,,


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## Maja

To tell you the truth, I actually never heard a native English speaker using these words, but we used them ALL THE TIME in Serbian, and I just translate them to English (matter of habit I guess) when I write my letters.
It is probably  the same with others who also use such expression in their native  languages.

I really don't see the reason WHY should anyone take offence or look for "hidden" or "implied" meanings/expectations that "lurk" behind it!!!

I mean, if smo in Serbia, who (or whom?) I don't know, addresses a letter/mail/text to me as "Dear Maja", I would probable start wearing pepper-spay , because official letters in my country usually start with "Poštovani..." (respected/honored...) and end with "Sa poštovanjem" (respectively). 
However, when I get an email from say an Englishman I DON'T presume he is coming on to me just because he calls me "Dear", but I receive it as it is -> a habitual address!


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