# Romance Languages: ir embora, andare via



## albondiga

Hi, 

I was just wondering if there is a difference between the way *ir embora* is used in Portuguese and the way *andare via* is used in Italian...  are there instances where one could be used but not the other?

Also, do the usages of these words differ from that of *irse *in Spanish?  At the very least they seem to be used perhaps very slightly more frequently (maybe that's just my imagination or my relatively limited exposure?), but is there also some diffierent _matiz_?

Also, does French have a parallel phrase/term, and if so then is it used with the same frequency?  (I can't bring one to mind at the moment, but I'm sure I'm just blanking on something obvious here...)

Finally, does this construction from the Portuguese and Italian date back to Latin, or it is something newer?


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## jazyk

I've always equated _ir embora_ (sometimes also _ir-se_) with _andare via_, _irse_ et _s'en aller_ (in French, as you asked). I might be wrong, though.

_Ir embora_ is said to come from i_r em boa hora_ (to go in good time).


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## albondiga

Interesting!  For some reason, it seemed strange to me that these phrases would all translate so well between the different languages, but I guess they do... anyway, thanks, that will make things much easier for me  !


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## Jeedade

Isn't _irse_ more equal to _andarsene _in Italian?


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## jazyk

If you're thinking literally, yes, I agree, but I don't see much of a difference between _andare via_ and _andarsene_, either, but as I said, I could be wrong and/or overgeneralizing.


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## aum34

Andare via would be in Spanish IRSE in Imperative:

*Ve*te! (tú)           Vai via!
*Id*os (vosotros)   Idos! but Iros! in informal language

Andarsene

Also IRSE or MARCHARSE

Me ne vado = Me voy, me marcho.


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## Sardokan1.0

In _Sardinian _we use "che" (pronounce "ke" , abbreviation of Latin "hicce") to reinforce this kind of phrases, it coincides roughly with the Italian "ce, ci, ne"

_Italian - Sardinian_

_andarsene - si ch'andare_

_me ne vado - mi ch'ando 
te ne vai - ti ch'àndas
se ne va - si ch'àndat
ce ne andiamo - nos ch'andamus
ve ne andate - bos ch'andàdes
se ne vanno - si ch'àndan_
*
Example : *

_Italian - Sardinian_

_Il film non mi piaceva e *sono* *andato via* dal cinema prima che finisse - Su film no mi piaghìat e *mi che so andadu* dae su cinema primu qui essèret finidu._
*
Imperative :*

vai = bae (Latin "vade")
vattene! = baedìcche! (bae + ti/di + che)
andate = andade / bazi (Latin "vadite")
andatevene! = andadebòcche! (andade + bos + che)


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## Dymn

Sardokan1.0 said:


> In _Sardinian _we use "che" (pronounce "ke" , abbreviation of Latin "hicce") to reinforce this kind of phrases, it coincides roughly with the Italian "ce, ci, ne"


How do adverbial pronouns work in Sardinian? Is there anything parallel to _hi/y/ci_ and _en/en/ne_? Does "che" cover both pronouns?


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## Sardokan1.0

Dymn said:


> How do adverbial pronouns work in Sardinian? Is there anything parallel to _hi/y/ci_ and _en/en/ne_? Does "che" cover both pronouns?



Yes there is a parallel, and "che" can cover both pronouns

_*hi/y/ci* = can be translated with "bi" (Latin "ibi") and also with "che" (hicce)

*en/en/ne* = can be translated as "inde" or abbreviated as "nde"; also "che" it's used as replacement of "inde"

Examples :

Bi / Che

bi sun = there are (the use of Bi indicates a certain distance)
che sun = there are (the use of Che indicates a closer proximity)

Italian - Sardinian

cosa *ci* facciamo li? = ite *bi *faghimus in hie?
cosa *ci *facciamo qui? = ite *che *faghimus in hoche?
_
_Inde / Che_
_
essidì*nde* dae mesu! = get out of my way! : essi (singular imperative) + ti/di + inde
essidì*che* dae mesu! = get out of my way! : essi (singular imperative) + ti/di + che_


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## Floridsdorfer

The explanation of Sandokan is very exhaustive and there is not so much to add, just that in central Sardinia you can also use _ddue _like _bi _or _che_, and in south, due probably to Italian influence, they even use _ci_.

For me, _vou embora_ is definitely the same as _me ne vado_ or _vado via_, the same as _me voy_ o _me'n vaig_ or _je m'en vais_ or _mi ch'ando_.
And in Sardinian too is possible to say: _baedicche in bon'ora_ = _vete/andate en hora buena_ (= _de una (vez)_).
Sardinians speaking in Italian may also say _vattene in buon'ora_.
That is always meant as a "desire" the counterpart should disappear...like to say "go in peace, but just go" 

For what the adverbial pronouns concerns, I try to make now just a quick, not exhaustive, comparison:

*EN: there is / there are
DE: es gibt* (da ist / da sind)
*ES: hay
PT: há / tem
IT: c'è / ci sono* (in Italian you must always use the plural if the object is in plural, like in English:_ ci sono problemi_, there are problems. That is due to the fact that in Italian and in English you use the verb _to be_ and not _to have_. Also, in Italian you can use this form with *ci *along with personal names alternative to the simple verb _to be_. That means, if you do not begin the sentence with the subject, in Italian you must use the form with _ci_, whereas in English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc., you would always use the simple verb _to be_. As a consequence, in Italian saying _Marco e Maria sono qui _or _(qui)_ _ci sono Marco e Maria_ is the same.
English: _Marco and Maria are here_; German: _Marco und Maria sind da_ (or _da sind Marco und Maria_); Spanish: _Marco y María están aquí_ (or_ acá están Marco y María_); Portuguese: _Marco e Maria estão aqui_ (_aquí estão Marco e Maria)_, etc...)
*FR: il y a
CT: hi ha
SD: ch'at / b'at / ddu'at *
(in Sardinian, differently from Italian and like in French, Catalan, Spanish or Portuguese, the verb used is _to have_ and according to that you must use this form with the plural: _ch'at problemas / b'at problemas / ddu'at problemas_.
With personal names instead, you can use the verb _to be_ like in Italian: _(innoghe) che sunt (_or _suntis) Marco e Maria_. Though, I would say that is due to an Italian influence.
I am not 100% sure if in Catalan it is correct to do something like that...for sure you can say _aquí és _(_está_)_ el Marc_, but also _(aquí) hi és _(_está_)_ el Marc_?...)

*EN: there is / there are* (*of that*...here it's meant "something left of some thing", like, "there is some bread (left)" )
*DE: es gibt (davon)
ES: hay (de eso)
PT: há / tem (de isso)
IT: ce n'è / ce ne sono *(one more time, in Italian you must use the plural if the object is in plural:_ ce ne sono ancora (di albicocche)_? (is any apricot left?) )
*FR: il y en a
CT: n'hi ha
SD: che nd'at / bi nd'at / ddue nd'at *(here too, Sardinian works different from Italian and you must use this form also in plural, like in French or Catalan: _che_ (or _bi_ or _ddue_) _nd'at galu_ (or _ancora_) _de barracocu_ (or _piricoco_)?)


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