# "saecula saeculorum" en rumano



## SerinusCanaria3075

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']"saecula saeculorum" (de_Gloria Patri_ en latín) significa "siglos de los siglos" pero esta forma es heredada directamente del latín al rumano ya que se agrega el sufijo al sustantivo al final. Como se diría en rumano?[/FONT]


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## OldAvatar

SerinusCanaria3075 said:


> [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']"saecula saeculorum" (de_Gloria Patri_ en latín) significa "siglos de los siglos" pero esta forma es heredada directamente del latín al rumano ya que se agrega el sufijo al sustantivo al final. Como se diría en rumano?[/font]



Romanian has two words to name a _century _and also an _eternity_: *veac* (Slavic _vik_) and *secol* (Latin _saeculum_, Italian loanword _secolo_).

There is an establish expression: *În veacul veacurilor* or *în vecii vecilor* (old plural form), meaning something like _at no time_.
A straight translation of your expression in modern Romanian  will be:
*Secolele secolelor.

*PS: Sorry for using English.


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## SerinusCanaria3075

So in a way, in terms of possession, Romanian is closer to Latin since it has kept the Genitive/Dative _lor_ at the end as a suffix which is unique to Romanian, something that other Romance Languages have not preserved.

French: _des_ siècles
Italian: _dei_ secoli
Portuguese: _dos_ séculos
Spanish: _de los_ siglos
Romanian:secole_lor_

"of the" centuries

(Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I know very little about Romanian so far.)


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## OldAvatar

There is also a genitival article in Romanian, which is used only with a possessive pronoun.
For example: *al veacurilor, al secolelor*

See wiki explanation for a quick view on this matter.

Best regards


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## SerinusCanaria3075

> There is also a genitival article in Romanian, which is used only with a possessive pronoun.
> For example: *al veacurilor, al secolelor*


Are we talking about the _*article*_ that is similar to Italian and must be used with possessive pronouns? 
>al mio castello (al meu...?)
>*il* mio sandwich (sandviş*ul* meu)

>Era un mare iubitor *al artelor.*
era un gran amante de las artes (spanish)


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## parakseno

Let's take it one step at a time.

First of all, in "sandviş*ul* meu" "-ul" is actually the definite article (with the noun "sandviş" in the Nominative or Accusative, depending on the context). The "-lor" in "veacul veacuri*lor*" is also the definite article, but this time it's the Genitive-Dative form.

The definite article in Romanian has form depending on gender (masculine, feminine, neuter), number (singular or plural) and case:

Singular
          masc.    fem.   neuter
N.Ac. -l/-le/-a  ;  -a  ;   -l/-le   (eg. omu*l*/munte*le*/tat*a*, mam*a*, creionu*l*/pronume*le*)
G.D.   -lui/ -i   ;   -i  ;    -lui   (omu*lui*/munte*lui*/tate*i*, mame*i*, creionu*lui*/pronume*lui*)

Plural
N.Ac.    -i     ;    -le   ;  -le  (oameni*i*/munţi*i*/taţi*i*, mame*le*, creioane*le*/pronume*le*)
G.D.     -lor   ;   -lor   ; -lor (oameni*lor*/munţi*lor*/taţi*lor*, mame*lor*, creioane*lor*/pronume*lor*)


Romanian also the possesive/ genitival article ("al, a, ai, ale"). It is placed in front of a name (noun, pronoun, numeral) in the Genitive case, when the name has a determinant (something that adds some extra information).
apărătorul al artelor - marele apărător *al* artelor
(defender of the arts - the great defender of the arts)
discursul al preşedintelui - discursul de ieri *al* preşedintelui
(the president's speech - yesterday's president's speech)
fata a babei - această fată *a* babei
(the old woman's daughter - this daughter of the old woman)


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