# Schadenfreude



## Włoskipolak 72

Schadenfreude is is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another.
The chances are you’ve experienced it at least once in your life..! 

_Neid zu fühlen ist menschlich, Schadenfreude zu genießen teuflisch."To feel envy is human, to savor schadenfreude is diabolic."
 Arthur Schopenhauer

 “To see others suffer does one good,” wrote the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. “To make others suffer even more so. This is a hard saying, but a mighty, human, all-too-human principle..”_


I suppose there are similar terms , verbs in some languages .., but I can't find it in Polish..?

Polish 

*die Schadenfreude* (v) = radość z czyjegoś niepowodzenia ( glee at another's misfortune )

złośliwy = malicious

Czech 

*škodolibost* = Schadenfreude


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## apmoy70

In Greek it's:

*«Χαιρεκακία»* [çe̞ɾe̞kaˈci.a] (fem.) < Classical feminine noun *«(ἐπι)χαιρεκακίᾱ» (ĕpĭ)kʰairĕkăkíā* --> _joy over one's neighbour's misfortune, spite, malignity_, a compound: Classical prefix and preposition *«ἐπί» ĕpí* (soon it was omitted) + Classical v. *«χαίρω» kʰaírō* --> _to be cheerful, ɡlad_ + Classical feminine noun *«κακίᾱ» kăkíā* --> _wickedness, evil_.
The adjective is *«χαιρέκακος, -κη, -κο»* [çe̞ˈɾe̞kako̞s̠] (masc.), [çe̞ˈɾe̞kaci] (fem.), [çe̞ˈɾe̞kako̞] (neut.).
The verb is *«χαιρεκακώ»* [çe̞ɾe̞kaˈko̞] --> _to find joy over one's neighbour's misfortune_.


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## Welsh_Sion

I don't think the Welsh or English translate this at all n- unless they need to provide a gloss of the original German. We would probably _italicise_ it in text.

Possible idea for Welsh:

*Chwerthin am ben anffawd rhywun arall*
Laughing at head misfortune someone else
'Laughing at someone else's misfortune'

<sch> would be a difficult concept for Welsh speakers initially, being rendered as. /sX.../


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## Frank78

Welsh_Sion said:


> <sch> would be a difficult concept for Welsh speakers initially, being rendered as. /sX.../



What do you mean? There is a [ʃ] in Welsh, isn't there?


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## Welsh_Sion

Yes there is, [ʃ] in Welsh. It's the first phoneme of my first name: si + Vowel being an example of it.
But <ch> is also a digraph in our alphabet, a, b, c, ch, d ... and is rendered as [x] (or by some of us northerners as [X]).

You know full well our jokes about 'the dear Johann Sebastian' or 'the small hook'. Indeed, you can write a text of over 80 words - all being the same - *bach* - with a meaning or making sense.

Just start,

*"bach bach bach Bach bach bach ... "*

Now [s + X] or [s + x] has no equivalent in Welsh orthography. Sure, we'd give it a try and Germans would (hopefully!) understand what we meant. [ʃ + X/x] is not possible, as previously mentioned.


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## Frank78

A "Sch", as is Schadenfreude, is always [ʃ]. There's no /x/ at all.


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## Welsh_Sion

I know - but in Welsh there wouldn't be, would there? (Or /X/). <sch> is an unknown compination in Welsh, unless borrowing such words as Schadenfreude or getting our tongues around the idea of Schwepps ('the double p' spelling would also be non-Welsh).

For a 'phonetic' spelling of Schadenfreude in Welsh we'd probably go, 'siandenFFROIdy'.


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## Penyafort

I can't think of any one-word translation for that term in Catalan. But I know a very close proverb: *Mals d'altri, rialles són* _'Other people's pains/misfortunes, laughters they are (to me)'_.


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## raamez

In Arabic it is شماتة shamaatah.


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## apmoy70

raamez said:


> In Arabic it is شماتة shamaatah.


We have it too as *«σαματάς»* [s̠amaˈt̠as̠] (masc.), from the Ottoman Turkish شماتة (şamata), _ruckus, commotion_, but to us describes in colloquial language, the _fuss, hullabaloo_, especially the _fracas_


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## סייבר־שד

Dutch has a term for that, as well, of course: _leedvermaak. _

And while no one-word equivalent in Spanish comes to mind right now, I can't help but think about that _"The Simpsons" _old episode (in the Latin American Spanish dub, of course) where Lisa asks Homer if he knows the meaning of just that fascinating, little German term, and then she explains it's the way Germans refer to _alegría malsana_.


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## alfaalfa

Ciao,
in *Italian* "_godere delle disgrazie altrui_" > to take pleasure in other people's misfortunes
"_Oh, come godo_ (v.)_/oh, che goduria_ (n.)_!_" > oh, what a bliss!


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## amikama

Hebrew: *שמחה לאיד*

שמחה = happiness, joy
איד = misfortune, trouble, disaster etc.


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## Awwal12

In Russian it's злорадство (zlorádstvo), lit. _~"evilgladness_".


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## AutumnOwl

Swedish has _skadeglädje_, the meaning identical to the German word, _skada_ = damage, injury, and _glädje _= joy.


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## cherine

apmoy70 said:


> We have it too as *«σαματάς»* [s̠amaˈt̠as̠] (masc.), from the Ottoman Turkish شماتة (şamata), _ruckus, commotion_, but to us describes in colloquial language, the _fuss, hullabaloo_, especially the _fracas_



In old Egyptian movies, where there were Greek characters*, you'd sometimes hear one of them complain about rowdy clients in a bar who make "shabata". 

I don't know if the Arabic and the Greek/Ottoman words are the same one with different meanings or not. But I just wanted to add the we have a verb for feeling or showing "shamata": yashmat يشمت.



amikama said:


> Hebrew: *שמחה לאיד*
> 
> שמחה = happiness, joy
> איד = misfortune, trouble, disaster etc.


Could you please transliterate these words? I can tell that it starts with a sh or s (The Hebrew shin resembles the Arabic س  ), but I can't guess the rest.


*Millions of Greeks lived in Egypt until very recently, and some of them still do, mostly old people. Most of them, if not all, speak Greek and Egyptian Arabic, and some spoke even one or two more languages.


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## amikama

cherine said:


> Could you please transliterate these words? I can tell that it starts with a sh or s (The Hebrew shin resembles the Arabic س  ), but I can't guess the rest.


sim7a leid / سمحة لايد (I hope I got it right)


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## AndrasBP

Hungarian:

*káröröm */ˈkaːrørøm/ - a calque (mirror translation) of the German term (kár = Schade, öröm = Freude)


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## LeBro

cherine said:


> In old Egyptian movies, where there were Greek characters*, you'd sometimes hear one of them complain about rowdy clients in a bar who make "shabata".
> 
> I don't know if the Arabic and the Greek/Ottoman words are the same one with different meanings or not.



According to Nişanyan Sözlük, the Turkish word "_şamata_" derived from the Arabic word "şamāta(t)" (شَماتة), which means (as I see here) "schadenfreude".

The Turkish word "şamata" (_yapmak_), to me, means something like (_to make_) "whoopee", "the act of whooping it up", "uproarious fun".



apmoy70 said:


> We have it too as *«σαματάς»* [s̠amaˈt̠as̠] (masc.), from the Ottoman Turkish شماتة (şamata), _ruckus, commotion_, but to us describes in colloquial language, the _fuss, hullabaloo_, especially the _fracas_



It can be used in the same way in Turkish too, I think.



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> Schadenfreude is is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another.



I don't think that we have a single word to express the very same meaning in Turkish.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

We just borrow the German word in English.


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## Włoskipolak 72

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek it's:
> 
> *«Χαιρεκακία»* [çe̞ɾe̞kaˈci.a] (fem.) < Classical feminine noun *«(ἐπι)χαιρεκακίᾱ» (ĕpĭ)kʰairĕkăkíā* --> _joy over one's neighbour's misfortune, spite, malignity_, a compound: Classical prefix and preposition *«ἐπί» ĕpí* (soon it was omitted) + Classical v. *«χαίρω» kʰaírō* --> _to be cheerful, ɡlad_ + Classical feminine noun *«κακίᾱ» kăkíā* --> _wickedness, evil_.
> The adjective is *«χαιρέκακος, -κη, -κο»* [çe̞ˈɾe̞kako̞s̠] (masc.), [çe̞ˈɾe̞kaci] (fem.), [çe̞ˈɾe̞kako̞] (neut.).
> The verb is *«χαιρεκακώ»* [çe̞ɾe̞kaˈko̞] --> _to find joy over one's neighbour's misfortune_.


Thanks apmoy70 !

*χαιρεκακία*
From _*χαίρω*_ (chaíro, “to be happy”) +‎ _*κακός*_ (kakós, “bad”) +‎ _-*ιά*_ (-iá). I hope i wrote it correctly in Greek !? 

*«(ἐπι)χαιρεκακίᾱ» (ĕpĭ)kʰairĕkăkíā  *, in Italian ''epicaricacia''


alfaalfa said:


> Ciao,
> in *Italian* "_godere delle disgrazie altrui_" > to take pleasure in other people's misfortunes
> "_Oh, come godo_ (v.)_/oh, che goduria_ (n.)_!_" > oh, what a bliss!



Ciao , grazie , by the way ho scoperto '' l'origine '' o le origini .. di Schadenfreude ...

La Schadenfreude è il fremito di piacere prodotto dalla gaffe del collega antipatico. È la soddisfazione per l’errore di un capo dispotico. È il sollievo per la macchia sul vestito della più bella della classe. È la gioia sfrenata per la sconfitta della squadra per cui tiene l’amico vincente, il cui dolore ci è più dolce di qualunque nostra gioia. Ma è anche la voluttà per le disgrazie dei vip, per il declino delle star, per gli sfondoni dei politici, per le cadute degli sconosciuti..



La parola se l'è inventata lo psicologo olandese *Wilco van Dijk *ma - che io sappia - forse non voleva esserne il diavolo fabbricatore. Infatti, pare che già Aristotele ne facesse cenno e uso, non certo col termine tedesco ma con quello greco  di “*epicaricacia*”, con l'altrettanto significato di gioia per il male altrui..

he word was invented by the Dutch psychologist Wilco van Dijk but - as far as I know - perhaps he did not want to be the ''devil maker ''. In fact, it seems that Aristotle already mentioned and used it, not with the German term but with the Greek one of "epicaricacia", with the same meaning of joy for the evil of others....

Schadenfreude: quando la sofferenza degli altri diventa piacere


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## Włoskipolak 72

Welsh_Sion said:


> Yes there is, [ʃ] in Welsh. It's the first phoneme of my first name: si + Vowel being an example of it.
> But <ch> is also a digraph in our alphabet, a, b, c, ch, d ... and is rendered as [x] (or by some of us northerners as [X]).
> 
> You know full well our jokes about 'the dear Johann Sebastian' or 'the small hook'. Indeed, you can write a text of over 80 words - all being the same - *bach* - with a meaning or making sense.
> 
> Just start,
> 
> *"bach bach bach Bach bach bach ... "*
> 
> Now [s + X] or [s + x] has no equivalent in Welsh orthography. Sure, we'd give it a try and Germans would (hopefully!) understand what we meant. [ʃ + X/x] is not possible, as previously mentioned.





Penyafort said:


> I can't think of any one-word translation for that term in Catalan. But I know a very close proverb: *Mals d'altri, rialles són* _'Other people's pains/misfortunes, laughters they are (to me)'_.





raamez said:


> In Arabic it is شماتة shamaatah.





סייבר־שד said:


> Dutch has a term for that, as well, of course: _leedvermaak. _
> 
> And while no one-word equivalent in Spanish comes to mind right now, I can't help but think about that _"The Simpsons" _old episode (in the Latin American Spanish dub, of course) where Lisa asks Homer if he knows the meaning of just that fascinating, little German term, and then she explains it's the way Germans refer to _alegría malsana_.





amikama said:


> Hebrew: *שמחה לאיד*
> 
> שמחה = happiness, joy
> איד = misfortune, trouble, disaster etc.





Awwal12 said:


> In Russian it's злорадство (zlorádstvo), lit. _~"evilgladness_".





AutumnOwl said:


> Swedish has _skadeglädje_, the meaning identical to the German word, _skada_ = damage, injury, and _glädje _= joy.





cherine said:


> In old Egyptian movies, where there were Greek characters*, you'd sometimes hear one of them complain about rowdy clients in a bar who make "shabata".
> 
> I don't know if the Arabic and the Greek/Ottoman words are the same one with different meanings or not. But I just wanted to add the we have a verb for feeling or showing "shamata": yashmat يشمت.
> 
> 
> Could you please transliterate these words? I can tell that it starts with a sh or s (The Hebrew shin resembles the Arabic س  ), but I can't guess the rest.
> 
> 
> *Millions of Greeks lived in Egypt until very recently, and some of them still do, mostly old people. Most of them, if not all, speak Greek and Egyptian Arabic, and some spoke even one or two more languages.





AndrasBP said:


> Hungarian:
> 
> *káröröm */ˈkaːrørøm/ - a calque (mirror translation) of the German term (kár = Schade, öröm = Freude)





LeBro said:


> According to Nişanyan Sözlük, the Turkish word "_şamata_" derived from the Arabic word "şamāta(t)" (شَماتة), which means (as I see here) "schadenfreude".
> 
> The Turkish word "şamata" (_yapmak_), to me, means something like (_to make_) "whoopee", "the act of whooping it up", "uproarious fun".
> 
> 
> 
> It can be used in the same way in Turkish too, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that we have a single word to express the very same meaning in Turkish.



Thanks a lot for your answers !
If you want to learn more about ''Schadenfreude''..;


Not Just a German Word: A Brief History of Schadenfreude

The Japanese have a saying: “The misfortunes of others taste like honey.” The French speak of _*j*_*oie malign*_*e*_, a diabolical delight in other people’s suffering. The Danish talk of _*s*_*kadefry*_*d*_, and the Dutch of _*l*_*eedvermaa*_*k*_. In Hebrew enjoying other people’s catastrophes is _*s*_*imcha la‑e*_*d*_, in Mandarin _*x*_*ìng‑z*_*āi‑lè‑huò*_, in Serbo-Croat it is _*zlùradōst* _and in Russian _*z*_*loradstv*_*o*_. 
More than 2,000 years ago, Romans spoke of _*ma*_*levolenti*_*a*_. Earlier still, the Greeks described _*e*_*pichairekakia *(literally _epi_, over, _chairo_, rejoice, _kakia_, disgrace). “To see others suffer does one good,” wrote the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. “To make others suffer even more so. This is a hard saying, but a mighty, human, all-too-human principle.”..

When the word _Schadenfreude _first appeared in English writing in 1853, it caused great excitement. This was probably not the intention of Richared Chenevix Trench, who mentioned it in his bestselling book on philology, _On the Study of Words_. For Trench, the mere existence of the word _Schadenfreude _was unholy and fearful, a “mournful record of the strange wickednesses which the genius of man, so fertile in evil, has invented.”

Not Just a German Word: A Brief History of Schadenfreude


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## Penyafort

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> More than 2,000 years ago, Romans spoke of _*ma*_*levolenti*_*a*_.


Very interesting. If so, then there is indeed a Catalan word, *malvolença* "ill-will", as well as the adjective _malvolent _and the verb _malvoler_. But to me this means actually wishing somebody's ills, not necessarily rejoicing in it, and it is just the opposite of _benvolença_ "benevolence, kindness".


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## סייבר־שד

Penyafort said:


> Very interesting. If so, then there is indeed a Catalan word, *malvolença* "ill-will", as well as the adjective _malvolent _and the verb _malvoler_. But to me this means actually wishing somebody's ills, not necessarily rejoicing in it, and it is just the opposite of _benvolença_ "benevolence, kindness".


Just like Spanish _malevolencia_, or one of its synonyms: _malquerencia_, neither of which mean the same as _Schadenfreude_.

I don't even know why Ms. Watt included Latin _malevolentia_, since that one, as far as I know, is no equivalent of the German term, either. 

All that aside, I must say I very much enjoyed reading her article on the subject; and she even mentioned the _The Simpsons _episode I referred to in my previous post .


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## elroy

amikama said:


> sim7a leid / سمحة لايد (I hope I got it right)


Almost!  Just one minor thing: it should be لإيد with a ء under the ا.

A couple more notes: 
- Since this is a transliteration, you should include diacritics: سِمْحَة لِإيدْ
- The Arabic alphabet has no “e,” only “i,” so this is only an approximation. 

For @cherine,
- Most Hebrew speakers pronounce ח like a خ, so they say سِمْخَة.
- The stress is on the second syllable in both words: sim*xa* le*id* 

For @amikama,
- A syllable with a ـة is never stressed, so an Arab reading سِمْخَة would think it was *sim*xa. 

That’s all, I think.


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## WadiH

elroy said:


> Almost!  Just one minor thing: it should be لإيد with a ء under the ا.
> 
> A couple more notes:
> - Since this is a transliteration, you should include diacritics: سِمْحَة لِإيدْ
> - The Arabic alphabet has no “e,” only “i,” so this is only an approximation.
> 
> For @cherine,
> - Most Hebrew speakers pronounce ח like a خ, so they say سِمْخَة.
> - The stress is on the second syllable in both words: sim*xa* le*id*
> 
> For @amikama,
> - A syllable with a ـة is never stressed, so an Arab reading سِمْخَة would think it was *sim*xa.
> 
> That’s all, I think.



One more thing: Hebrew _sin_ equates to Arabic _shin_, so if there is an Arabic cognate (which there may not be), it would be either شمحة or شمخة.


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## Ansku89

Finnish: vahingonilo. (Vahinko = accident, damage, vahingon = genetive form of that, ilo = joy, happiness.)


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