# Mojej najlepszej koleżanki... - genitive case rules



## surikatka

_Hello everyone!

Uczę się polskiego i mam pytania.  
I am trying to learn genitive case and I don't understand why the following example uses the genitive case, if the subject is "best friend."  

"Mojej *najlepszej koleżanki* nie było w domu."

Thanks in advance 
_


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## rickymut

the nonexistence is expressed by "nie ma (present tense), nie było (past  tense), nie będzie (future  tense)". the subject of the sentence should be the genitive case. you may relate this to the usage of the genitive case of a negated sentence with the accusitive-requiring verb.


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## zaffy

Nie było w domu.... (kogo?czego?)....jej, Kasi, jego, Andrzeja, psa. 

Nie było w domu.....(kogo?, czego)... jej, Agnieszki, jego, Tomka, kota. 

So the above sentences need genetive case. Now, you can change the order of the words and you'll get:

Jej, Kasi, jego, Andrzeja, psa......nie było w domu. 


Now, you can replace 'jej' with 'mojej koleżanki' and get: Mojej koleżanki nie było w domu. hth


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## Lorenc

zaffy said:


> Nie było w domu.....(kogo?, czego)... jej, Agnieszki, jego, Tomka, kota.
> So the above sentences need genetive case.



Just a friendly remark  When it comes to grammatical explanations of case usage Poles seem to be very fond of giving explanations by use of the _kto/co_ pronouns, opportunely inflected, used as a model. A typical 'explanation' would be along the lines '_przyglądam się - komu/czemu przyglądam się?_ it's dative'; this works for native speakers, because they already know the correct form (e.g.,_ przyglądam się komuś, nie ma mąki_) and they merely want to appropriately label the inflected form. They learned at primary school, I suppose, that _komuś _is dative and then use this piece of information to deal with the general case. While this train of thought works for natives, it is quite meaningless for beginning foreign students who study the language formally. In fact, the _kogo/coś _litany may even sound like a joke ('what is that supposed to mean as an explanation?!'). This is because in formal studies books first introduce cases in a general way and only then one deals with the specific declension patterns of nouns; so the diligent students which begins a sentence like '_nie lubię..._' may think: _lubić _is a transitive verb hence its direct object should be in the accusative. However, this is a negated sentence and the genitive should be used instead. The genitive of _Agnieszka _is (after having looked it up) _Agnieszki_, hence '_nie lubię Agnieszki_'. The reasoning is therefore the opposite of what a native might do. Also, _kto/co_ are for beginning students relatively difficult words (more difficult than proper names or names of things, animals...) so using them as a declension model in not especially helpful.


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## Enquiring Mind

> I am trying to learn genitive case ...


More on the genitive and its use with negation in 'Polish Grammar in a Nutshell', Oscar E. Swan (pp. 541-542):


> GENITIVE (czego? kogo?). The Genitive case is used to express:
> (...)
> 3. After negated transitive (Accusative-requiring) verbs. Compare: Mam nowy telewizor. I have a new television set-Acc. Nie mam nowego telewizora I don't have a new television set-Gen. Już skończyłem drugą lekcję I have already finished the second lesson-Acc. Jeszcze nie zacząłem drugiej lekcji I haven't begun the second lesson-Gen. yet.
> 4. Complement of negative existentials nie ma there isn't, nie było there wasn't, nie będzie there won't be. Nie ma masła there is no butter-Gen. Marii jeszcze nie ma Maria-Gen. isn't here yet.
> (...)(skwierzyna.net - pdf)


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## surikatka

Dziękuję, bardzo interesujący... 
I will read the explanations in more detail later, but for now I can appreciate this is another one of those nuances of the genitive case with negation.  I speak many languages but only Romance and Germanic languages, so Polish is presenting itself as a challenge.  However, I am excited to continue learning.  Bardzo lubię języka polskiego  
Pozdrawiam


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## zaffy

So, don't give up. One of the most difficult languages in the world. 

ps. Bardzo lubię język polski.


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## jasio

Hi,

If I may correct you:



surikatka said:


> Dziękuję, bardzo *interesujący...


Normally, you would use neuter grammatical gender which is the most universal in this kind of phrases "Dziękuję, bardzo interesujące" - (with the omited part being understood as 'to [jest/było]' -> 'it [is, was]'). Other grammatical genders are used only, if it's obvious what you are specifically referring to, for example when returning a book (książka), you may say shortly "dziękuję, bardzo interesująca". Of course, if you explicitly name the noun, you match the form of the verb with its gender ('Dziękuję, ten wpis był bardzo interesujący').



surikatka said:


> Bardzo lubię *języka polskiego


"Lubić" requires the noun in accusative grammatical case. And accusative introduces additional complexity, because masculine nouns asume the form identical to either nominative or genitive case, depending on their meanings. If the noun refers to an animate object (a human, an animal, etc) its form in accusative is identical to genitive, while if it refers to an inanimate object (a suite, language, cheese) it's identical to nominative. BTW, it's a paradox that parts of the living body are considered inanimate, while the dead body is considered animate. Don't ask me, why. So:
* lubię chłopaka, człowieka, psa, kota, trupa
* lubię garnitur, język, ser, nos, ucho
Consequently: 'Bardzo lubię język polski".


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## surikatka

Dziękuję Jasio! 
The thought actually occurred to me that it was probably "interesujące", not "interesujący" -- however, I didn't know the rule for inanimate vs animate nouns in the accusative.  I was applying the pattern from a sentence such as "mam czarn*ego *kot*a*" erroneously to "język polski" but now I see that it remains as in nominative.  Whew!    I will never give up on Polish, and the reason for that is that Poles are so kind and gracious with their language that I am always motivated to keep practicing


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