# It was butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place.



## takashimiike

Buongiorno. Dall'autobiografia dei Beastie Boys. 

Mike D (uno dei BB) descrive la villa in cui il gruppo va a vivere insieme. E' una villa spettacolare, bellissima, con piscina. Per Mike D è un vero e proprio gioiello. Poi termina la descrizione con "It was butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place. THE BEST".

Immagino sia un'immagine che racchiuda tutto ciò che ha detto in precedenza... ma cosa diamine vuol dire?!

Burro su un panino in una merdosa spaghetteria?!?!


----------



## ohbice

Magari questo può aiutarti: "Someone who thinks of themselves as classy but is really just fat, ugly and stupid".
Urban Dictionary: Butter On A Roll
Non c'è contesto, ma sembra proprio sia un testo dissacrante.


----------



## rrose17

The Beastie Boys are nothing if not irreverent. Plus any interview I've seen of theirs is all over the place, hard to follow. I'd never heard _butter on a roll_ as an expression but I understood it to mean among all the trashy things going on around them this one place stands out as being superior, the one saving grace.


----------



## takashimiike

rrose17 said:


> The Beastie Boys are nothing if not irreverent. Plus any interview I've seen of theirs is all over the place, hard to follow. I'd never heard _butter on a roll_ as an expression but I understood it to mean among all the trashy things going on around them this one place stands out as being superior, the one saving grace.


Se ho ben capito, dunque, il "butter on a roll" sarebbe la villa, mentre lo "shitty spaghetti place" sarebbero i BB?


----------



## rrose17

I'm assuming the villa they're talking about is in L.A.? I understand it to mean that L.A. (The BB are from NYC) is the awful place and this villa the one thing that stands out in a positive way.

edit:
LA Los Angeles
BB Beastie Boys
NYC New York City


----------



## ohbice

Anch'io non capisco, rrose. Are you saying that "It was butter on a roll _*at *_a shitty spaghetti place" stands for "The villa in LA is like butter on a roll and all the other things seems something like shitty spagattri places?",


----------



## rrose17

I wouldn’t run with this too far in this context. But LA is like one awful spaghetti restaurant with nothing nice to recommend it, except this one jewel. Again, without any more details, this is my understanding.


----------



## Pietruzzo

rrose17 said:


> I wouldn’t run with this too far in this context. But LA is like one awful spaghetti restaurant with nothing nice to recommend it, except this one jewel. Again, without any more details, this is my understanding.



I've never been to LA but I thought  there was no shortage of luxurious villas there.


----------



## theartichoke

This one is pretty much anyone's guess, I think, but my immediate impression (possibly because of that "THE BEST" right after) was that the whole thing was a tongue-in-cheek, creative version of "it was the cherry on the top of an ice-cream sundae." I.e., not that the butter on the roll was the only good thing about an otherwise shitty spaghetti place, but that Mike D is just revelling in the glorious trashiness of all of it: butter, roll, crappy mass-market Italian restaurant, and all. I know (or at least assume) that the villa's not actually trashy, but my point is that in this saying, trashy = good.

But depending on how Mike D feels about LA in general (which the book hopefully makes clear?), rrose could be right.


----------



## takashimiike

rrose17 said:


> I'm assuming the villa they're talking about is in L.A.? I understand it to mean that L.A. (The BB are from NYC) is the awful place and this villa the one thing that stands out in a positive way.
> 
> edit:
> LA Los Angeles
> BB Beastie Boys
> NYC New York City


Sì, la villa è a Los Angeles, dalle parti di Mulholland Drive.


----------



## rrose17

Again, I wouldn’t parse this too carefully. It’s a cute throw-away line. Hyperbole. New Yorkers are famously snobs about L.A. And whether they’re revelling in the trashiness of it all, as arti suggests, or really feel this villa is the one good thing in this dump is a nuance that even Mike D might have a hard time deciphering. IMHO of course.


----------



## You little ripper!

I don't know if this helps:

The Best Thing About ‘Beastie Boys Book’ Is the Girls

_Horovitz in particular is a loopy and vivid writer, whether he’s describing the process of unwinding a cassette tape as “like pulling 60 minutes of wet fettuccine out of a dog’s mouth” or praising an L.A. mansion the Beasties rented in the late ’80s: “It was butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place. THE BEST.”_


----------



## theartichoke

rrose17 said:


> Again, I wouldn’t parse this too carefully. It’s a cute throw-away line. Hyperbole. New Yorkers are famously snobs about L.A. And whether they’re revelling in the trashiness of it all, as arti suggests, or really feel this villa is the one good thing in this dump is a nuance that even Mike D might have a hard time deciphering. IMHO of course.


In either case, how on earth does one translate it into Italian? Literally?  Personally, I'd be tempted to replace "a shitty spaghetti place" with the name of an American chain (I checked, and The Olive Garden was indeed around in the late '80s -- did you know that at one point they stopped salting their pasta cooking water because of the warranty on their pots?) and let Italian readers who haven't heard of it look it up. While Italy no doubt has a few _spaghetterie merdose_, in my experience they'd just be bad restaurants, without the trashy / mass-market / all-you-can-eat-cheap-crap connotations that I hear in this line.  

Just a thought, and probably not a good one.  But I'd be mighty curious to hear what taka plans to do with it.


----------



## takashimiike

theartichoke said:


> In either case, how on earth does one translate it into Italian? Literally?  Personally, I'd be tempted to replace "a shitty spaghetti place" with the name of an American chain (I checked, and The Olive Garden was indeed around in the late '80s -- did you know that at one point they stopped salting their pasta cooking water because of the warranty on their pots?) and let Italian readers who haven't heard of it look it up. While Italy no doubt has a few _spaghetterie merdose_, in my experience they'd just be bad restaurants, without the trashy / mass-market / all-you-can-eat-cheap-crap connotations that I hear in this line.
> 
> Just a thought, and probably not a good one.  But I'd be mighty curious to hear what taka plans to do with it.


Ah, guarda... non ne ho ancora idea... Horovitz e Diamond sono due ossi durissimi... ma ne uscirò in qualche modo... Spero


----------



## alfaalfa

Ciao,
(perdendo però ogni rifermenti alla frase originale) dal modo di dire "perle ai porci" potrebbe andare "una perla nel porcile/in quel porcile che è L.A."?


----------



## MR1492

takashimiike said:


> Se ho ben capito, dunque, il "butter on a roll" sarebbe la villa, mentre lo "shitty spaghetti place" sarebbero i BB?



I think the entire phrase is about how wonderful the villa is and does not refer to anything else. It sounds like a set phrase (un modo di dire) that one of them likes to use. I wouldn't read anything else into it.


----------



## takashimiike

MR1492 said:


> I think the entire phrase is about how wonderful the villa is and does not refer to anything else. It sounds like a set phrase (un modo di dire) that one of them likes to use. I wouldn't read anything else into it.


Il problema è che questa frase va tradotta in italiano...  A meno che tu non stia suggerendo di tradurla letteralmente...


----------



## MR1492

takashimiike said:


> Il problema è che questa frase va tradotta in italiano...  A meno che tu non stia suggerendo di tradurla letteralmente...



Certainly not! It's obviously a euphemism. Unfortunately, my bag of useful, well-known Italian euphemisms is almost empty and I don't have one that fits here. Surely there is an Italian phrase that is the equivalent of saying, "This place is absolutely amazing," through the use of something like, "It was butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place." The name of the place is immaterial. It's the visual image that's important.

So, is there an Italian phrase that has this same level of whimsy to express how impressed he was?

Phil

P.S. It would be something like, "Come un vino soddisfacente a McDonald's!"


----------



## furs

MR1492 said:


> Certainly not! It's obviously a euphemism. Unfortunately, my bag of useful, well-known Italian euphemisms is almost empty and I don't have one that fits here. Surely there is an Italian phrase that is the equivalent of saying, "This place is absolutely amazing," through the use of something like, "It was butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place." The name of the place is immaterial. It's the visual image that's important.
> 
> So, is there an Italian phrase that has this same level of whimsy to express how impressed he was?
> 
> Phil
> 
> P.S. It would be something like, "Come un vino soddisfacente a McDonald's!"


Maybe 'Una figata di posto'?


----------



## Alec23k

"Un'oasi di XXX nel deserto" ? or maybe "Un diamante nel fango"


----------



## takashimiike

Allora... partiamo dal fatto che la frase in questione non l'ho ancora tradotta... però credo di essere propensa a seguire il consiglio di MR1492, ovvero inserire nella frase due termini in opposizione tra loro...

Volendo rispettare il tema culinario originale, avevo pensato a qualcosa tipo "un piatto cinque stelle in una bettola"... ma... non sono per nulla contenta...

Ps: peccato che adam horovitz e michael diamond non siano i classici scrittori cui mandare una mail per una delucidazione


----------



## Alec23k

Forse qualcosa di più specifico, ad esempio: era la torta di mele in una tavola calda economica; o qualcosa del genere.
Usando un articolo determinativo per il primo termine, che mi sembra renda meglio l'idea; nel senso che era l'unica cosa decente di un posto "discutibile".


----------



## theartichoke

takashimiike said:


> Ps: peccato che adam horovitz e michael diamond non siano i classici scrittori cui mandare una mail per una delucidazione


You could always try: I don't imagine these guys hear from Italian translators every day, and it might be a weird enough request that they'd get a kick out of it.  

Whatever you do with it, I'd be wary of making the terms too "Italian": readers who know that the US lacks _tavole calde_ and _torte di mele_ are going to wonder what Mike D actually said.


----------



## Alec23k

theartichoke said:


> You could always try: I don't imagine these guys hear from Italian translators every day, and it might be a weird enough request that they'd get a kick out of it.
> 
> Whatever you do with it, I'd be wary of making the terms too "Italian": readers who know that the US lacks _tavole calde_ and _torte di mele_ are going to wonder what Mike D actually said.


OT
I meant to say something like  "It was apple pie at a lousy diner"; do you think_ "tavola calda"_ is too far from "_diner"_?

IT
 Perhaps adam horovitz and michael diamond even enjoy having butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place.


----------



## theartichoke

Alec23k said:


> OT
> I meant to say something like  "It was apple pie at a lousy diner"; do you think_ "tavola calda"_ is too far from "_diner"_?
> 
> IT
> Perhaps adam horovitz and michael diamond even enjoy having butter on a roll at a shitty spaghetti place.


It's a good question: a _tavola calda _serves kind of the same function as a diner, but they're both so culturally specific that I doubt an Italian visiting a diner in the US would think of it as or call it _una tavola calda_, or vice-versa. (You're talking to someone who once spawned an enormous thread over translating _una latteria. _). _It was the apple pie at a lousy diner _is perfectly American, but translating that to sound equally American without keeping the English terms is as much of a challenge as the original. (I doubt Italians say _tanto americano quanto una crostata di mele_?)

And for what it's worth, I think the point is that they _do _enjoy the butter and the roll and the shitty spaghetti place, too. (See my post #9.) That capitalized "THE BEST" right afterwards makes me think that it's not about finding the one good thing in a bad place: if the only decent thing to eat in a bad restaurant is a buttered roll, you wouldn't call it THE BEST.  Rather, the whole experience is pure trashy goodness, and the butter is the "cherry on top."


----------



## merse0

takashimiike said:


> Volendo rispettare il tema culinario originale, avevo pensato a qualcosa tipo "un piatto cinque stelle in una bettola"...


Eventualmente dovresti scrivere: "un piatto da tre stelle Michelin in una bettola"...
Perché 5 stelle non significa molto.


----------



## takashimiike

merse0 said:


> Eventualmente dovresti scrivere: "un piatto da tre stelle Michelin in una bettola"...
> Perché 5 stelle non significa molto.


Non esistono i piatti 5 stelle?


----------



## merse0

Le stelle più famose, in ambito gastronomico, sn quelle assegnate ai ristoranti dalla Guida Michelin.
3 Stelle è il massimo e sono pochi locali a fregiarsene in Italia.
La mia frase va intesa: "un piatto da _(ristorante)_ tre stelle Michelin in una bettola".

Su Tripadvisor, Google e altri siti si danno da voti da 1 a 5, ma è generico.


----------



## MR1492

It seems to me that the OP wasn't an AE/BE common phrase so does the Italian translation have to be one? In other words, can you invent something like, "_come pane caldo e olio d'oliva fresca nella bettola"_ to express a similar feeling in the listener/reader?

Phil


----------



## EverIvy

Non so quali siano le “regole” scritte e non scritte dei traduttori ufficiali, ma per quello che mi riguarda penso che quando si tratti di un romanzo sia soprattutto importante trasmettere il concetto, anche se la traduzione perde di fedelta’, mentre quando si tratta di una biografia / autobiografia preferisco la maggiore fedelta’ possibile, al limite con una nota che spieghi il concetto nel suo contesto o che ne noti l’”americanita’”, in questo caso.

In fondo chi e’ interessato a leggere un’autobiografia si rende conto del contesto in cui certe cose accadono e vengono dette e penso sia soprattutto interessato/a alle considerazioni originali dei personaggi in questione, anche se possono risultare oscure.


----------



## takashimiike

EverIvy said:


> Non so quali siano le “regole” scritte e non scritte dei traduttori ufficiali, ma per quello che mi riguarda penso che quando si tratti di un romanzo sia soprattutto importante trasmettere il concetto, anche se la traduzione perde di fedelta’, mentre quando si tratta di una biografia / autobiografia preferisco la maggiore fedelta’ possibile, al limite con una nota che spieghi il concetto nel suo contesto o che ne noti l’”americanita’”, in questo caso.
> 
> In fondo chi e’ interessato a leggere un’autobiografia si rende conto del contesto in cui certe cose accadono e vengono dette e penso sia soprattutto interessato/a alle considerazioni originali dei personaggi in questione, anche se possono risultare oscure.


Ti do ragione su tutto... il problema è che qui non ho ancora capito il senso della frase... se i due termini sono in contrapposizione tra loro oppure no... è una casino


----------



## LightDrake

Ciao, 
Io ti consiglierei di tradurre il _concetto_ lasciando perdere l'espressione culinaria. 
Ti suggerisco una frase del tipo
_Era una gemma in un posto desolante._


----------



## takashimiike

LightDrake said:


> Ciao,
> Io ti consiglierei di tradurre il _concetto_ lasciando perdere l'espressione culinaria.
> Ti suggerisco una frase del tipo
> _Era una gemma in un posto desolante._


E qui si torna al discorso del senso della frase... che non è chiaro... anche perché la villa in questione si trova su Mulholland Drive, a Hollywood, che è un luogo tutt'altro che desolante o brutto, visto che intorno a questa villa ce ne sono decine di altrettanto spettacolari


----------



## theartichoke

takashimiike said:


> E qui si torna al discorso del senso della frase... che non è chiaro... anche perché la villa in questione si trova su Mulholland Drive, a Hollywood, che è un luogo tutt'altro che desolante o brutto, visto che intorno a questa villa ce ne sono decine di altrettanto spettacolari


Short of getting hold of one of the Beasties in person, all you have to go on is the line itself, about which we know various things:
1. It's in no way a set expression, just something wildly idiosyncratic that the speaker came up with. Its structure bears a very slight resemblance to the expression "the cherry on top" or (as WR tells me) _la ciliegina sulla torta_.
2. The one good piece of evidence for what he actually means is that emphatic "THE BEST." "The best" is simply the best, and even more so the best when it's in all caps. You don't say "THE BEST" when you're talking about one good thing that stands out in contrast to the crap that's around it.
3.The native English speakers here have come to no consensus on what it means. I'm pretty sure the terms _aren't _in opposition to each other, and so far nobody's come back to fight me.   But the point is that native speakers find the original pretty obscure, so there's no reason the translation should be less obscure.

What does it sound like if you translate it almost literally? I don't think "shitty" here is as strong as _merdoso_; it's something more like "cheap" in the sense of trashy as well as _economica_. What do you call a mass-market restaurant in Italian? Can one say _una spaghetteria dozzinale_? I don't think I've ever heard that word used for restaurants (as opposed to items), but that's the idea I'm thinking of.


----------



## Pietruzzo

Having had a look at the book, I think the contrast is not between the house and the surroundings but between the trashy mismatching features of the house itself.
"It was a crazy house [...] There was a gate at the entrance to the house with a big G on it[... ]this crazy entryway with a rock wall, a bunch of fake plants, and a pool table. Outside the house was a swimming pool with a little bridge that went over it. It was butter on a roll...”

 Apparently they did like, or at least found amusing those Hollywood archtectural extravaganzas; that's why they say "THE BEST",  tongue-in-cheek, I reckon.
My suggestion: "Come imburrare un panino in una spaghetteria alla mano. Il massimo".
To sum up it's not about what whas good or bad but about the fact that it was all "crazy".
Il tutto secondo me, naturalmente


----------



## You little ripper!

Pietruzzo said:


> Having had a look at the book, I think the contrast is not between the house and the surroundings but between the trashy mismatching features of the house itself.





Pietruzzo said:


> Outside the house was a swimming pool with a little
> 
> bridge that went over it. It was butter on a roll...”


Nice one, Pietruzzo! 🙂 It sounds like it's referring to the swimming pool outside compared to the house.


----------



## Alec23k

You little ripper! said:


> Nice one, Pietruzzo! 🙂 It sounds like it's referring to the swimming pool outside compared to the house.


Sembra anche a me.
_"Fuori c'era una piscina attraversata da un ponticello. Era la cigliegina sulla torta."_


----------



## takashimiike

Dunque... la piscina è il panino e la casa nel suo insieme è la spaghetteria?


----------



## Pietruzzo

takashimiike said:


> Dunque... la piscina è il panino e la casa nel suo insieme è la spaghetteria?


Unless we go back to @ohbice's suggestion in #2.


ohbice said:


> Someone who thinks of themselves as classy but is really just fat, ugly and stupid".


 In that case the pool, the house and everything would be "wonderfully kitsch".
"Sembrava un fighetto di periferia che entra in una spaghetteria scadente . IL MASSIMO!".


----------



## Mary49

Alec23k said:


> Sembra anche a me.
> _"Fuori c'era una piscina attraversata da un ponticello. Era la *cigliegina *sulla torta."_


*Ciliegina*...


----------

