# Norwegian: Two objects with each a different gender



## sjiraff

Hi everyone,

I just wondered if there is any rule for when you have two objects and wish to say something like "which one do you want?", should you say "hvilken" or "hvilket" av disse...?

Thanks for any help


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## NorwegianNYC

The only "rule" is that 'hvilken' should reflect M or F, 'hvilket' should reflect N and 'hvilke for plural


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## sjiraff

NorwegianNYC said:


> The only "rule" is that 'hvilken' should reflect M or F, 'hvilket' should reflect N and 'hvilke for plural


Ah ok, so it'd be hvilken.

Thanks


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## raumar

Hei Sjiraff, I am not sure that you can draw that conclusion from NorwegianNYC's answer. If I understand your question correctly, you ask about situations where somebody are asked to choose between a M/F object and N object, for example _et eple_ and _en appelsin_. NorwegianNYC's rule does not really cover that case. I would say "_Hvilken vil du ha_" in the _eple/appelsin_ case, because I would think about it as "_Hvilken frukt vil du ha_". In other cases, you would think of it as "_Hvilken ting vil du ha?_" But in some cases, "hvilket" may be the best choice. These are not firm rules, and I doubt that many people would notice your choice of word in this situation.


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## sjiraff

raumar said:


> Hei Sjiraff, I am not sure that you can draw that conclusion from NorwegianNYC's answer. If I understand your question correctly, you ask about situations where somebody are asked to choose between a M/F object and N object, for example _et eple_ and _en appelsin_. NorwegianNYC's rule does not really cover that case. I would say "_Hvilken vil du ha_" in the _eple/appelsin_ case, because I would think about it as "_Hvilken frukt vil du ha_". In other cases, you would think of it as "_Hvilken ting vil du ha?_" But in some cases, "hvilket" may be the best choice. These are not firm rules, and I doubt that many people would notice your choice of word in this situation.



Hmm I see, this is still one of the most confusing things about having genders in a language for me to be honest, since sometimes objects can be considered different things, like "en skrustikker" is also "et verktøy", or sometimes there are two words for the same thing etc. Or like you say, you might call it just en ting.


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## bicontinental

> sometimes objects can be considered different things, like "en skrustikker" is also "et verktøy", or sometimes there are two words for the same thing etc. Or like you say, you might call it just en ting.




True sjiraff, but remember that pronouns like “den/det/de” are only meaningful if there’s a referent. In other words, you use the pronoun gender which matches the specific noun you were just using. Therefore, if you’re talking about a new car you just purchased, saying “_jeg har kjøpt drømmebilen_”, you would not 2 minutes later refer to this car in the neuter using _det_ just because a synonym for _car_ is a _vehicle_ =  _et (motor) kjøretøy_. You would use the pronoun gender that refers back to the noun you just used, the referent=bil. Anything else would be very confusing indeed.

Similarly, if you talk about a large glass of milk, _et stort glass melk_, you would refer to it using _det_ because the referent is _the glass_ which is neuter and not the milk which is M/F.

As far as the choice between two items of different genders…as an alternative to Raumar´s suggestion above (“which one would you like”= _Hvilken vil du ha_), you could also avoid the entire gender issue by using a construction like “what would you like?”, _hvad vil du (gerne) have, æble eller appelsin_? (in Danish)  I would think this should work in Norwegian as well ~ _hva vil du (gjerne) ha, eple eller appelsin? _

Bic.


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## sjiraff

Ah, I see now what you mean about if you refer to it already, but what if you just want to say "take this" and the object could be "et krus te" or "en kopp te", could I say either "ta dette" or "ta denne", unless of course I wanted to say "ta denne koppen/dette kruset".

I was also wondering about just saying "hva vil du ha", but then I thought maybe it sounds a bit like i'd be saying "what do you want?", but iwth context I think you're right it would make sense.

Thanks


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## Dan2

sjiraff said:


> this is still one of the most confusing things about having genders in a language for me to be honest, since sometimes objects can be considered different things,


I think it might be possible to construct an analogy to this for English.  We don't have grammatical gender but we do have "number".  Imagine a case containing a set of a half-dozen different-sized screwdrivers.  Depending on what I have in mind, I might point to it and ask "Is this yours?" OR "Are these yours?"


bicontinental said:


> remember that pronouns like “den/det/de” are only meaningful if there’s a referent. In other words, you use the pronoun gender which matches the specific noun you were just using.


Likewise, for "it" vs "they", "this" vs "these", "that" vs "those", etc. the referent is important.  I might say, "That's a nice set (kit)."  That forces my next question to be,  "Where did you get it?" (not "them").  Answer: "I bought IT at ...".  OTOH, if I ask "Are those screwdrivers of good quality?" the answer would contain "they", not "it".


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## raumar

Dan2 said:


> I think it might be possible to construct an analogy to this for English.  We don't have grammatical gender but we do have "number".  Imagine a case containing a set of a half-dozen different-sized screwdrivers.  Depending on what I have in mind, I might point to it and ask "Is this yours?" OR "Are these yours?"



 



sjiraff said:


> but what if you just want to say "take this" and the object could be "et krus te" or "en kopp te", could I say either "ta dette" or "ta denne".



Yes. There aren't any clear rules for cases like this, and none of the alternatives are incorrect. You shouldn't worry too much about this!

Bic's alternative, "_Hva vil du ha?_" is good. It is the natural question to ask if the alternatives are uncountable (_øl eller vin?_), but it works for countable objects as well.


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## sjiraff

Dan2 said:


> I think it might be possible to construct an analogy to this for English.  We don't have grammatical gender but we do have "number".  Imagine a case containing a set of a half-dozen different-sized screwdrivers.  Depending on what I have in mind, I might point to it and ask "Is this yours?" OR "Are these yours?"



You know I was thinking along those lines too at one point, but now you mention how if one person says "it", it passes over to the rest of the conversation for both speakers to being "it" and not "they". Very good point, thanks Dan.




raumar said:


> Yes. There aren't any clear rules for cases like this, and none of the alternatives are incorrect. You shouldn't worry too much about this!


You know I think you're right, I've actually gone as far as asking Norwegians how they would refer to a fork glued to a glass and other things, but I've never actually come accross any confusion with the genders in this way while reading and listening. 



raumar said:


> Bic's alternative, "_Hva vil du ha?_" is good. It is the natural question to ask if the alternatives are uncountable (_øl eller vin?_), but it works for countable objects as well.



Good to know, I was a bit hesitant because I know in Norwegian it can be more specific like "hvilken dag er det" and not "hva dag er det", thanks Raumar.


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