# Adding the -o suffix: weirdo, kiddo, sicko, Johno, ...



## Vanda

Hello everyone,

I'd like to know which words I can add this "o" like in the examples mentioned
(weirdo...).
Any noun and adjectives? Is there a rule for this informal use?

thank you!


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## snipfer

just try not to do it unless you want to sound as a redneck


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## GenJen54

I don't believe there is any specific grammatical "rule" for this construction. It evolved from everyday colloquial speech. 

"That kid is really weird. He's a weirdo."

Kiddo is a diminuitive name for "kid," and is normally used only in direct address like a nickname, such as: 
"Hey, kiddo, what are you doing?" 

These two words are exceptions. We generally do not just add "o's" to any word in order to make a new word as those described above.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *snipfer*
> just try not to do it unless you want to sound as a redneck


With all due respect, these words are common among all regions, at least of the US. They are certainly not unique to "rednecks" or any other US sub-culture.

In the case of "kiddo" in particular, this is used by people from all regions, of all levels of intellect and among all social classes.


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## panjandrum

Isn't kiddo just a little bit insulting/ patronising/ provocative?
Along the lines of "Listen, kiddo, you do that once more and I'll <insert physical violence threat of your choice*>!!"
*I don't know any physical violence threats


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *panjandrum*
> Isn't kiddo just a little bit insulting/ patronising/ provocative?
> Along the lines of "Listen, kiddo, you do that once more and I'll <insert physical violence threat of your choice*>!!"


It certainly can be used in that context - mobsters (or mean parents) in movies comes to mind. 

However, I have also heard it used very commonly as a positive expression.

"Great job, kiddo." 
"Keep up the good work, kiddo."
"Hey, kiddo, how's it going?"

I guess it is all in the intonation, and of course, the context.


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## panjandrum

Right - so kiddo may be either an insult or a genuine term of affection - and it's all in the way you say it.
That makes sense.
Thanks.


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## foxfirebrand

snipfer said:
			
		

> just try not to do it unless you want to sound as like a redneck


 
With all due respect, it's bad enough that an 18-year-old sitting over in Spain somewhere thinks he knows a "redneck" from an outbreak of rubeola-- why this one thinks he's qualified as a maven of regional AE usage is beyond me. 

Plus he got it wrong, as others have pointed out.  If you're not going to stick to what you know, it might be a good idea to give some indication that *you* know your suppositions are guesswork.  That bit of humility makes it less offensive when you get things wrong.
.


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## cuchuflete

The "o" ending is not so exceptional as one may think.  Those old enough to remember beatniks and even parodies of beatniks such as Maynard G. Krebs will smile fondly when they hear "Daddy-o".    This term was in widespread use not so very long ago.


Waiting for all the hep cats to offer more "o" words......


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## foxfirebrand

I did almost say, "Maynard Krebs was a _redneck?_" By the way, I dropped a schmaltzy pseudo-C&W lyric in a post and cited "Bob Denver" as the singer, and nobody called me on it. Unless everyone got the joke and just nodded appreciatively.

I can't think of any beat-era terms-- weirdo and daddy-o is about it. Unless maybe wacko qualifies. Pseudo-hippies carried it over with makeshift terms like freak-o. But I think the _-oid_ suffix is coming into play instead-- android, bizarroid, Richard Hell and the Voodoids, etc. And baroque variants like "freakazoid." So humong-o becomes humongoid.
The "Mondo" movies made for a rash of expressions like "it was very mondo-bizarro out last night."

Tabloidese is a modern source-- Jacko, e.g.

Also Coolio and I'm sure there are others.

Otherwise, it was a trend with all sorts of 19th-century examples:
pretty pretty peggy-o
me bucko (or boyo)
the raggle-taggle gypsies-o
Adding _-o_ to a word is a deplorable convention in B-movie doubletalk in imitation of Spanish and even worse, "native" pidgin dialect. 

There's also a tendency to adopt or coin words that end in "o" for cute or novelty words. Honcho, Bozo, gonzo, Bebe Rebozo.

[why does this forum software increase the font size of cut-and-pastes in the dialogue box, and how do you correct it? I wrote this in 10-point on a WordPad page]
 .


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## cuchuflete

The vBulleton software has some genuinely nuts-o quirks. Just ask the man from the water fence opening and his buddy-o Bebe. Did you really find Tricky Dicky-o's cohort cute?


Highlight/select the text, change font size to "1".


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## elroy

To me, "kiddo" is more affectionate than disparaging - in general, of course.

"Weirdo" is certainly used everywhere - and very commonly.

I too am at a loss as to the purported regional variation.


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## foxfirebrand

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Did you really find Tricky Dicky-o's cohort cute?


 
I was talking about his cohort's _wardrobe,_ and "novelty" was the word that applied. And if he'd known they were going to make such a big deal of him walking along the beach in his dress shoes, he'd've worn Bebe's rebozo himself, with huaraches.

I did size the text down to "1" and that's what I got. The bracketed part was written directly into the dialogue box, in "preview post" mode. In other respects, this forum software is far superior to most, IMO.
.


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## te gato

I have tried to think of more...

Kiddo..is said to someone younger than you and who you think is cute (the pig-tails and freckles type)
Wacco...Nutso...(missing a few fries from the happy meal)
Pinko..used at one time to describe a communist..
Daddy-o...(as the others have stated)..

That is it for now o..
tg


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## foxfirebrand

Pinko!  A must-include word I couldn't think of.  Bravo!


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## Roi Marphille

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Right - so kiddo may be either an insult or a genuine term of affection - and it's all in the way you say it.
> That makes sense.
> Thanks.


yeah, David Carradine addressed Uma Thurman as "kiddo" in KILL BILL.


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## estefanos

In kiddo, the "o" has the effect of a diminutive, which can be affectionate or derogatory depending on context.  I think it may have developed from boyo, which I vaguely recall having been told is Irish.  (not sure on the boyo part, though).

With weirdo, the effect is to make a noun from an adjective.  Since the adjective weird already has a negative connotation in modern usage, the noun weirdo also has a negative connotation.  In fact, "weirdo" has a much more negative connotation than "weird".  

Daddy-o is a diminutive.  The word is positive, since daddy is also positive.

Pinko (I've never seen it written with a dash, and do remember when the word was in common use) is a noun formed from an adjective, and since the adjective had a culturally negative meaning (sympathetic towards communism), the noun "pinko" (communist sympathizer) was also negative.  Pinko was in fact much more negative than pink, since a "pinko" was always a concrete person, and "pink" could refer to an abstract concept.

The part about the rednecks is ridiculous.  Absolutely.

As an aside, it's interesting to note that "redneck" has different meanings in different parts of the US.  In the rural West, it generally means a person who lives in the country, i.e., not in a town.  It implies a lack of culture only, and is often self-applied with a meaning of "not a city slicker".  In the East and South, I understand that the term implies racism, which is surely not the case in the West.


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## cirrus

Boyo, Irish?  Not sure about that although it is often used as a (less than flattering) term for people from (South) Wales. 

In the North of England we often say meladdo to refer to someone whose name you either don't know or can't remember.


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## Mr Bones

Does hairdo belong to the same list? Bones.


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## cuchuflete

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> Does hairdo belong to the same list? Bones.


No, Mr Bones, it does not.  It is a contraction of hair and do.
The final o of pinko_ et alia _is pronounced like a Spanish o, while the final o in hairdo sounds more like a Spanish u.


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## panjandrum

The Irish connection is the other way round, of course - with the O' at the front, not the end - meaning grandson, or descendant of...

...and there's 
mayo,
jello,
sicko,
deado,
dodo,
doggo
...

Panj O'Pongo
(Pongo pygmaeus)

[Spot the fakes ]


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## Mr Bones

Thanks, Cuchu. Mr Bones.


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## Vanda

The very very good point of this forum is that you always get so many
info from all types of experts that it'll make me an expert too.. 
Thank you all.

I've seen this weirdo and kiddo used in affectionated terms too, not
only derogatory,  in sitcoms. Perhaps one may find it it weirdo I'm
always mentioning the sitcoms, but as a teacher this is the real contact
I have with the spoken language and students always make me this
weirdoes questions in classes....


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## Mr Bones

Vanda said:
			
		

> The very very good point of this forum is that you always get so many
> info from all types of experts that it'll make me an expert too..
> Thank you all.
> 
> I've seen this weirdo and kiddo used in affectionated terms too, not
> only derogatory, in sitcoms. Perhaps one may find it it weirdo I'm
> always mentioning the sitcoms, but as a teacher this is the real contact
> I have with the spoken language and students always make me this
> weirdoes questions in classes....


 
I learned the words weird and weirdo in _Friends,_ so I agree with you. But I think it's *weird questiones* and *find it weird, *isnt' it? Bones


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## Vanda

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> The "o" ending is not so exceptional as one may think. Those old enough to remember beatniks and even parodies of beatniks such as Maynard G. Krebs will smile fondly when they hear "Daddy-o". This term was in widespread use not so very long ago.
> 
> 
> Waiting for all the hep cats to offer more "o" words......


 
Cuchu

Come on! A beatnik revival ?! Who would remind of that? You!  

Just kidding.......


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Mr. Bones*
> But I think it's weird questiones and find it weird, isnt' it?


Yes.  Weirdo usually only describes a _*person*_ who is considered weird. 
"He is weird.  He is such a weirdo."
I have never heard weirdo used to describe inanimate objects.



> Originally posted by *Te Gat-O *
> Wacco


This is spelled as "wack-o" or "wacko."


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## Papalote

Hello,

Well, I'm not hep, but I do have an`o` word which drives me up the wall, rubs me the wrong way, and irritates me no end (to use a few slang ready-made phrases which somewhat describe how I feel  ), every time I hear it, *problemo*, as in *'no problemo'* (it usuallay sounds like, _noooou problemooow_). Anyone one knows how this originated and what is achieved by massacring two languages  ? I don`t know why it should irritate me so much, but it does.

Thanks,

Papalote


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## Mr Bones

Papalote said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Well, I'm not hep, but I do have an`o` word which drives me up the wall, rubs me the wrong way, and irritates me no end (to use a few slang ready-made phrases which somewhat describe how I feel  ), every time I hear it, *problemo*, as in *'no problemo'* (it usuallay sounds like, _noooou problemooow_). Anyone one knows how this originated and what is achieved by massacring two languages  ? I don`t know why it should irritate me so much, but it does.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Papalote


 
Hello, Papalote. I have never been in the US and I don´t know many english-speaking people. So, please, satisfy my curiosity, even if it's a bit morbid: Who speaks that way? Mr Bones.


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## cuchuflete

Papalote said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Well, I'm not hep, but I do have an`o` word which drives me up the wall, rubs me the wrong way, and irritates me no end (to use a few slang ready-made phrases which somewhat describe how I feel  ), every time I hear it, *problemo*, as in *'no problemo'* (it usuallay sounds like, _noooou problemooow_). Anyone one knows how this originated and what is achieved by massacring two languages  ? I don`t know why it should irritate me so much, but it does.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Papalote



Hola Papalote,

Obviously you and I suffer from the same malady...a strong allergic reaction to ignorance and insensitive displays of irritating idiocy.

regards,
Cuchu


PS-  I think of people who say no problem*0* as dope-o's


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## Vanda

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Yes. Weirdo usually only describes a _*person*_ who is considered weird.
> "He is weird. He is such a weirdo."
> I have never heard weirdo used to describe inanimate objects.
> 
> "


 
GenJen thank you for this explanation. I really thought it could be
used for people and things and the reason is that of the "old mother language
interference". In Portuguese we say esquisito (one translation for weird)
 referring to things and the same adjective for persons, thus my wrong
conclusion.


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## estefanos

Papalote said:
			
		

> *'no problemo'* (it usuallay sounds like, _noooou problemooow_)



This is a US slang usage that developed in the 70's.  I believe it started in California.  The meaning is simply "It's not a problem".

It was formed as parody of Spanish, but it has no despective connotations, unlike some other phrases where "o" is added in imitatation of Spanish.  I recall fluent spanish speakers who well knew that problem is "problema" say "no problemo" when speaking english.  It was the style.

The phrase has a aspect of emphasis, which accounts for the pronounciation you mentioned.  It was always slang, and very informal.  

hth,
estéfanos


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## estefanos

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> This is spelled as "wack-o" or "wacko."



And sometimes whacko, by assuming a (false) relation to "whack".  Wacko is one of the "cowboy words" that entered English from Spanish in the US Southwest during the early-mid 1800's.  

Wacko is derived from "hueco" (hollow, as in hollow-headed).

Other cowboy words are:

cowboy (vaquero)
lasso 
round up, rodeo (rodear)
loco 
chaps 

This has been an interesting thread.  Thanks, kiddo.  (affectionate usage)

ciao,
estéfanos


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## Mr Bones

Hi, estefanos. Could you bring me an example of the usage of wacko? Because I understood the meaning, as you explained it, but I can't imagine a sentence or a situacion or a dialogue. And I agree: this thread has been (or it's being) great. Bones.


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## foxfirebrand

Uhh-- I think "cowboy" is English. The word we got from _vaquero_ is "buckaroo."

Definitely worth a tangent, though, if not another thread-- _-aroo_ and _-arino_ words. That last one's a self-conscious or even self-mocking beatnik-era word it occurs to me that _absolutely no one_ might know about. In fact I'm even having a mental block right now about _-aroo_ words.

The old switcheroo and "gimme a big smackeroo" are about it.

Somebody pitch in!


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## estefanos

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> Hi, estefanos. Could you bring me an example of the usage of wacko? Because I understood the meaning, as you explained it, but I can't imagine a sentence or a situacion or a dialogue. And I agree: this thread has been (or it's being) great. Bones.



Hi Bones,

My understanding of the origin is "hueco en la cabeza" => "heuco" => "wacko".

You can generally use "wacko" as you would use "crazy", generally with the softer meaning of eccentric, not thought-out, stupid, etc.  you could say, for example: "that's a wacko idea", etc.

When referring to persons, especially unknown persons, it can take the stornger meaning of crazy, "insane", as in "some wacko killed ...".  

Usually, though, it is used like "crazy" in it's softer sense.

hth,
estefanos


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## estefanos

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Uhh-- I think "cowboy" is English. The word we got from _vaquero_ is "buckaroo."



Thanks, FFB, I'd forgotten about "buckaroo".  I do believe, though, that both words came from vaquero.  I think the English word prior to Cowboy was "herdsman". 

Cowboy came via translation, while buckaroo came via transliteration.  Similar to "round up" and "rodeo", which both came from rodear.   

Prior to settling the West, one "drove" a herd.  There was no need to round them up, because cattle were kept in fairly small fenced areas.  An eastern farm of 60 acres or so was very common.  Then the West was opened, and herds were tended on areas of public land that encompassed hundreds of square miles.  Hence the need for a new word to describe a new (to the English language) activity.  Since the Spanish were already there...

Regards,
estefanos


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## foxfirebrand

Hola estéfanos--

Well, I don't think it's possible to tell how ancient terms like "cow boy" and "goat boy" and "goose girl" are-- older than the English language itself, I have little doubt.  My etymological source says it goes back to 1725 in England, which by no means implies it goes back *only* that far.  Maybe Panj can find it in the OED.  I'm sure when the Goths came swarming into Europe in late Roman times the job of moving the kine along was given to boys with sticks, as it was in Saxon England over 500 years later.  What were these boys called?  I'd say something meaning "cowboy" is a pretty safe bet.  _Cu knave_ perhaps-- we got "boy" from the Normans some time after 1066.

Just because _llanero_ means _plainsman_ doesn't mean we got the word from Spanish.  _llano_ and _plain_ are cognates, but we got our word from Medieval French, like so many that derive from the same Latin roots as Spanish words.  The same _ll-_ vs _pl-_ shift from Latin to Spanish and French/English exists in wors like _lleno, llorar _and _llover_ => _plein, pleurer, pleuvoir => plain, [?duhh], deplore._

The same kind of retro-fitting is inadvisable with _roundup,_ which because it retains the "n" is not a Latin-derived word, but a Germanic one.  We do have _rod-_ words like _rodeo_ from Spanish and _rodomontade_ from Italian, and _rot- _words like _rotary_ from the French, or _rotunda_ from Latin.  

That said, there is a huge debt American English owes to the Spanish, and the Mexicans after them.  And the influence continues.  Bring it on, we can handle it!
.


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## estefanos

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> The same kind of retro-fitting is inadvisable with _roundup,_ which because it retains the "n" is not a Latin-derived word, but a Germanic one.



Actually, i didn't say that round up was derived from a Spanish word in the same sense that rodeo was. Rather that it was translated into English from the Spanish word already in use in order to describe a new activity. 

The first cattle ranching operations were in Texas, which was Spanish at the time, and the first Anglos to arrive (Austin party, 1821) received land grants from the Spanish crown and were in return required to learn Spanish and convert to Catholicism. The type of ranching already being practiced in Texas was very different from the farms that had some cattle on them in the east. (Pork was the main meat in the USA until after the Civil War). Also, the land grants given to individual Anglo families were huge - multiple square miles of empty grasslands - and i believe formed the basis of some of the present day counties. Gregg county, Austin county, Hargrave county, etc. 

The last part not about Texas history, but about the newness, to the Anglos, of that type of agricultural activity - ranching.

Your right, of course, that cow boy was undoubtedly used for a very long time to describe the boy who watched the cows. But cowboys were men rather than boys, and they didn't watch the cattle, who were left to fend for themselves on the open prairie and then rounded up once a year.

I swear, I didn't make this up out of whole cloth. I've read about these derivations of cowboy, round up, rodeo, chaps, lasso, etc., several times.

But I don't have any sources handy, and have to admit that these derivations could be as fanciful as gringo coming from "green grow the rushes o" (or lilacs;-) that was supposedly the marching song of the US troops during the Mexican-American War. Gringo, of course, comes from griego, not "green grow", despite the many books and articles that give the green grow derivation.

Regards,
estefanos


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## cuchuflete

estefanos said:
			
		

> And sometimes whacko, by assuming a (false) relation to "whack". Wacko is one of the "cowboy words" that entered English from Spanish in the US Southwest during the early-mid 1800's.
> 
> Wacko is derived from "hueco" (hollow, as in hollow-headed).
> 
> Other cowboy words are:
> 
> cowboy (vaquero)
> lasso
> round up, rodeo (rodear)
> loco
> chaps



I'll give it a whack...and a resounding.."Maybe/Maybe not"
*
* *wacky *"crazy, eccentric," 1935, variant of whacky (n.) "fool," late 1800s *British* slang, probably ultimately from whack "a blow, stroke," from the notion of being whacked on the head one too many times.  Some sources say it comes from 'out of whack'.


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## foxfirebrand

Well, we disagree only about the one thing. To me, _cowboy_ would be a *translation*_ from Spanish_ if it were derivative or analogous-- like _musketeer_ is, for example. Or if _vaquero_ had an element corresponding to the word _boy--_ or _man_ either, for that matter. If Stephen Austin's party had gotten involved in bullfighting, they might've called themselves _bullfighters_ by way of coining a term for the unaccustomed activity-- bullfights in England involved dogs. So our word for bullfighter might as easily have been _bullbaiter._ The point is, an _-eer_ or _-ier_ word wasn't chosen-- _bullfighter_ and _cowboy_ were Anglo-Saxon words adapted for new use, not borrowed words like _grenadier_ or _privateer. _

We didn't have gunslingers either until we started venturing into territory the Spanish were also exploring, but the fact that we coined terms like that doesn't mean they were translated from, say, _pistolero._ Some of our gunfighters did wear bandoliers, though!
.


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## estefanos

i surrender!


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## Mr Bones

Thanks a lot, Estefanos. Mr Bones.


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## panjandrum

This is an almost relevant footnote, inspired by foxfirebrand's speculation (above) on the job title for those who care for domestic animals.

I betook myself to the OED, to follow the assigned dusty trail.

First of all, to confirm ffb's quoted *1725* as the first listing for cow-boy:
*1725* SWIFT _Receipt to Stella_, Justices o' quorum, Their cow-boys bearing cloaks before 'um. 

I could find no other cow-, goat-, goose- or other animal- person listed with an interesting pedigree. 
Then shepherd came to mind; cowherd sounds familiar, and of course there is the goatherd who lives high on the lonely hill 
So I set off to check out -*herd-* combinations.

My first discovery was that *herd* has a very long history as a general term applied to all kinds of domestic animals - cattle, sheep, goats, swine:
*A company of domestic animals of one kind, kept together under the charge of one or more persons.*

It was a short skip in the OED from *herd* to *herdsman* - but back another 120 years or so from cow-boy:
*1603* KNOLLES _Hist. Turks_ (1621) 133 Who yet with their wives and children, as *heardsmen*..wander up and downe the countrey.

But what's this! - drop the s and look at *herdman*:
*c1400* MANDEVILLE (Roxb.) xxiv. 110 [Th]ai..ware made *hird~men* and kepers of bestez.
... the oldest immediately-readable example on the way back to *c1000*.

And finally, to the oldest recorded meaning of the word *herd*:
*1.* A keeper of a herd or flock of domestic animals; a herdsman.
...with the earliest recorded example *c725 *full of strange characters and unfamiliar words.

Make of that what you will 
I've finished my lunch, enjoyed the research - enjoy the rest of your day


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## estefanos

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Well, we disagree only about the one thing. To me, _cowboy_ would be a *translation*_ from Spanish_ ...only if _vaquero_ had an element corresponding to the word _boy--_ or _man_ either...



Uhh....  "ero"? 

A native Spanish speaker will, I hope, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that "ero" indicates a person intimately (professionally?) engaged with the preceding noun.   "o" makes if masculine, hence man or boy.

The only word that leaps to mind at the moment is "bombero" - the man who operates the pump - a fireman.  

Oh, wait...  there's "gambero" also, but that's slang, and I have no idea how the word would have been derived, so there may well be no parallel with bombero.

Thanks for the interesting conversation.
estefanos


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## Vanda

So, I understand that I can use the adjective weird for things too,
but I can't use weirdo for things, is that it?


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## Roi Marphille

Vanda said:
			
		

> So, I understand that I can use the adjective weird for things too,
> but I can't use weirdo for things, is that it?


well, I would not. I always trust Ms.GenJen .


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## Vanda

estefanos said:
			
		

> Uhh.... "ero"?
> 
> A native Spanish speaker will, I hope, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that "ero" indicates a person intimately (professionally?) engaged with the preceding noun. "o" makes if masculine, hence man or boy.
> 
> The only word that leaps to mind at the moment is "bombero" - the man who operates the pump - a fireman.
> 
> Oh, wait... there's "gambero" also, but that's slang, and I have no idea how the word would have been derived, so there may well be no parallel with bombero.
> estefanos


 
Estefanos
As our languages and their grammar are so similar I think this suffix -ero (that
is -eiro in Portuguese) has the same meaning and origin.
Here comes from the grammar:

_eiro - from  latim -arRu (de -arRus, a, um e -arRus, ii), nom_.  =
a person that does certain activity or has a specific profession (ex.barbeiro, costureiro, hoteleiro, vaqueiro); someone who shows a certain trait of personality or behavior (ex.agoureiro= a person who is ominous/alcoviteiro= a person who is a pimp) ; an object or a tool; a machine or gadget; a specific place to keep things (ex: açucareiro = sugar bowl/ paliteiro=toothpick holder); a tree : abacateiro (the avocado tree)/limoeiro(the lemon tree);formigueiro ( anthill) ; viveiro =vivarium...and so on. 
I think many of them have similar words in Spanish.


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## foxfirebrand

estefanos said:
			
		

> A native Spanish speaker will, I hope, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that "ero" indicates a person intimately (professionally?) engaged with the preceding noun. "o" makes if masculine, hence man or boy.


 
Yes, it would've been clearer if I'd said _cowboy _is not a *derivation*  of the Spanish _vaquero_, as are the _-ier_ and _-eer_ forms I went on to mention.  Translation is a simple concept, and our word for _vaquero_ is _cowboy._

Where I got confused was the clause _"it was translated into English *from the Spanish word already in use* in order to describe a new activity."_ 

To me this clearly meant word derivation, and I just don't think words are coined in a manner so self-consciously derivative of another language.  Once a word has been coined, most often by a process not really understood, and certainly not documented-- translation of it _after the fact_ is a whole nother concept.  In that case you're being descriptive, and not implying a cause-and-effect relationship.

When we came across _toreros,_ we evolved a clearly English term for them.  When we adopted a term for _bandoleros,_ we clearly borrowed (or stole) a pre-existing term, and our word is derivative.

And yes, it's been a very rewarding discussion.


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## Papalote

estefanos said:
			
		

> Uhh.... "ero"?
> 
> A native Spanish speaker will, I hope, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that *"ero" indicates a person intimately (professionally?) engaged with the preceding noun*. "o" makes if masculine, hence man or boy.
> 
> The only word that leaps to mind at the moment is "bombero" - the man who operates the pump - a fireman.
> 
> Oh, wait... there's "gambero" also, but that's slang, and I have no idea how the word would have been derived, so there may well be no parallel with bombero.
> 
> Thanks for the interesting conversation.
> estefanos


 
Hi, everyone,

I can`t help it, after reading such an interesting exchange, but to play devil's advocate  . Not exactly that, but can`t think of a term for what I'm doing aqui seguido (next?).

I first thought of obrero, and my quasi-feminist beady brain immediately thought of obrera, so far so good. Then I thought of ratero, and ratera (which might only be used in Mexico, correct me if I am wrong, and is slang for thief), and then I came to cajero and cajera, and then... but, wait a minute, these two words do not have the same meaning! I asked some of my colleagues, Argentinians and Mexicans, and they confirmed that cajera is the lady that gives you money (cashier) and cajero is the machine (ATM).

It has taken me more that an hour to type this, work rudely intruded on pleasure and I had to get back to a translation I'm struggling with, so in order to send this without further interruptions, I will just point out this interesting fact and get on with my duty.

Have a nice long weekend! Ah, yes, it`s only long for us Canadians, our Thanksgiving . So, the, have a nice weekend, buen fin de semana!

Papalote


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## estefanos

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Where I got confused was the clause _"it was translated into English *from the Spanish word already in use* in order to describe a new activity."_



Ah.  I see.  

That's why I wrote so much about Texas history.  But my point was not well made: I should have said "from the Spanish word already in use_* by the first  *__*(Anglo)*__*American *__*cowboys".  *_

As I explained, they all spoke Spanish, since they were Spanish citizens living in a Spanish colony.   When the second wave of Anglo-American immigration into Texas began shortly before the 1845 war, the new immigrants had no intention of participating in anything resembling cultural assimilation, and did not learn Spanish.  Hence the Spanish terms already in use were either translated into English (by the first wave of Anglos - the Spanish speakers) or anglicized.

A similar explanation with "round up".  I surely did not mean to say that the words are derived from Spanish as in "rodear" => "round".  That's absurd, as you rightly pointed out.  

My point was that before the inception of western style ranching, English speaking people did not "round up" cattle".  They "herded" them in, or "drove in" the herd.  That's simply because they already knew where the herd was.   With the type of ranching developed in the West (which I understand to be derived from agricultural practices in the south of Spain) nobody knew where the herds were until they went out looking for them.  Hence the need to "round them up"

OK - now I promise - no more ranching history

que tienes buena dia,
estefanos


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## estefanos

Vanda said:
			
		

> So, I understand that I can use the adjective weird for things too,
> but I can't use weirdo for things, is that it?



Basically, weird is an adjective, and wierdo is an noun meaning a weird _*person*_.

Referring way back to the opening post - "what are the rules for adding an 'o' to English words", I'd say: don't do it unless you have already heard the word (with 'o') used by a native speaker.  Otherwise you risk sounding like an idiot or being offensive.

hth,
estefanos


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## estefanos

Vanda said:
			
		

> ...
> _eiro - from  latim -arRu (de -arRus, a, um e -arRus, ii), nom_.  =
> a person that does certain activity or has a specific profession



Thank you, Vanda!!   I appreciate your help.

Kind regards,
estefanos


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## cuchuflete

Thanks Papalote,

A few off-topic comments in your text, below...





			
				Papalote said:
			
		

> Hi, everyone,
> 
> I can`t help it, after reading such an interesting exchange, but to play devil's advocate  . Not exactly that, but can`t think of a term for what I'm doing aqui seguido (next?).
> 
> I first thought of obrero, and my quasi-feminist beady brain immediately thought of obrera, so far so good. Then I thought of ratero, and ratera (which might only be used in Mexico, correct me if I am wrong, and is slang for thief),   In northern Spain, in the province of Santander/Cantabria...not only will you hear ratero, but also a derivative,  raquero.  The latter used to mean a young thief operating in the port, and has come to be used to mean a young rascal.  and then I came to cajero and cajera, and then... but, wait a minute, these two words do not have the same meaning! I asked some of my colleagues, Argentinians and Mexicans, and they confirmed that cajera is the lady that gives you money (cashier) and cajero is the machine (ATM). "Pure sexist nonsense!" he grumbled.  What do you think a male cashier was called, long before the invention of ATMs?
> 
> It has taken me more that an hour to type this, work rudely intruded on pleasure and I had to get back to a translation I'm struggling with, so in order to send this without further interruptions, I will just point out this interesting fact and get on with my duty.
> 
> Have a nice long weekend! Ah, yes, it`s only long for us Canadians, our Thanksgiving . So, the, have a nice weekend, buen fin de semana!
> 
> Papalote



Happy Thanksgiving,
Un saludo,
Cuchu


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## foxfirebrand

Raquero!  A word meaning _thief_ or more generally young rascal-- and used on the rocky Celtic-influenced shores of Northern Spain?

Meanwhile on the rocky southern shores of Celtic Britain, say in the perilous coves of Cornwall where many a ship has foundered-- you have _wrackers,_ people who row out to the not-yet-wrecked ships and rob them of their cargo.  Or, as they would have it, the ocean of her bounty.
.


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## estefanos

Mr X said:
			
		

> Robbo etc. (if someone's name is Robert)



I hadn't thought of the 'add an o to the name' words, but you can do it with any name, at least in the US.

It's done by adding an 'o' to any one-sylable name, or to the first sylable of a longer name. Here are some from my personal experience:

steve => steve-o
bob => bob-o 
susan => sus-o
jennifer => jen-o
john => jono 
siobhan => sio  ('chevon' => 'psi-o' [ or psycho, if you want a reaction])

Oh yeah, the rule is a bit different if the name ends in 'y':

harry => harry-o
billy => billy-o

This practice is much more common in spoken. as opposed to written, English.  

The result is a jocular, affectionate, diminutive. It can only be used with close friends, though, or it becomes disrespectful and insulting.

One of these, jono, is a somewhat common diminutive of John.


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## CarlLedbetter

*Wacko* (for someone who is crazy, what we in AE might also call 'a nut job'); *Pinko* (for someone who is a political leftist--derived from the fact that a 'red' was a communist--the red flags of the Soviet Union and China were the root of that--and if you were not really a communist but leaned toward the left--a socialist--you were pink--not quite red but tinged);
*Weirdo* (obvious derrivation from 'weird');
*Sicko* (which, despite the fact that no one has proposed it yet, is probably one of the most common of these--it means someone who is very badly disturbed in a horrible way--it's used, for instance, of pedophiles, and is always very, very perjorative); 
These are all derrivative forms that follow *Bozo*, which means 'someone who is a clown', from, obviously, the real Bozo the Clown. Appending the 'o' to the end of an adjective came to serve as a way of converting it to a noun that serves to characterize a person in an unpleasant way. All of these are at least mild perjerortives (Bozo), and, in approximately increasing order of nastiness, weirdo (unkind), wacko (mean), sicko (really nasty). 
*Kiddo* (which has two 'd's) is a very different kettle of fish and predates the others. It can be dissmissive (a kind of diminuitive, but with attitude), but it can also be genuinely affectionate (as others have pointed out), but in this latter case, it is usually used in a situation where the person speaking is in some way the superior of (in some sense--the parent of, the supervisor of, the elder of) the person being spoken to (at least in his or her mind) so that it has the connotation of praise being passed to the junior person by a person who has the right, athority, or experience to have the praise be appreciated--it could be used affectionally, for instance, by a father to his daughter or son, when he says, "Great job, kiddo". This particular example, in fact, points precisely to its derrivation--it is a word used by a parent of his or her 'kid', or child, which explains both the affectionate and the diminuitive components of its use. It is completely unrealted to the others above which are usually negative except in some marginal cases where weirdo and sicko, in particular, are used in a humorous way (it's particulary important in these cases that the usual uses of werido and sicko are so awful that it is safe, when they are used humorously, to assume people will understand).
The 'o' sound is always long, as in home, and is always unaccented.  
These certainly are not exclusively from southern useage, which is to say this is not a redneck construction--in fact, 'kiddo' in particular is a kind of east coast upper-class moneyed useage.


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## foxfirebrand

_Kid_ itself is an interesting word.  Human children weren't acceptably called that until well into the 19th century, and from the beginning it stood in contrast to the comparison of children with "sweet little lambs," which was well-established in pre-Conquest England, which is to say before the English language was even formed.  As late as my own childhood, elderly people sometimes took umbrage at the mere use of the word-- kids are _livestock_, they'd admonish you.

By "in contrast" I mean that kids were always friskier than their gentle siblings, possibly to the point of obstreperousness and mischief.  Just as sheep are angelic and goats are daemonic, "kids" have always been endowed with precocity and a bit of naughtiness.

As a sobriquet, "the Kid" is well known in boxing, and isn't so much diminutive as indicative of an up-and-comer in almost any weight class.  Also sometimes applied to a difficult personality, a "problem child."

The mildly-derogatory nuance of "kiddo" comes from the sense that precocious youngsters aren't always adorable-- it has overtones of "young pup" or _upstart._  There's a lot you don't know yet, kiddo.

The affectionate use of _kid_ and _kiddo_ is fairly recent!  It was even more condescending than "me boyo" or "bucko."  And note that girls, the more angelic and therefore lamblike of the sexes, weren't called kids.

Not until "kid" gained perhapsits greatest popular acceptance, in the 20th century, as a Jazz Age term of affection, and this usage adds the complexity and confusion some of us are exhibiting-- it was a flirtatious term, a pet name for a flapper-type girl, and had overtones of impropriety that sometimes rose to the salacious.

"I love my wife, but oh you kid!"  I'm sure all you gen-Xers will remember that one.

"Here's looking at you, kid."  More familiar?  Romanticized somewhat, but the movie couple who made this a catch phrase were, after all, on an extramarital fling at the time.
.


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## panjandrum

estefanos said:
			
		

> I hadn't thought of the 'add an o to the name' words, but you can do it with any name, at least in the US.
> 
> It's done by adding an 'o' to any one-sylable name, or to the first sylable of a longer name.


This is very common in Ireland and has certainly been observed across the UK.  
Sometimes also applied to surnames.  
Frequently used by sports commentators.


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## cuchuflete

> These certainly are not exclusively from southern useage, which is to say this is not a redneck construction--in fact, 'kiddo' in particular is a kind of east coast upper-class moneyed useage.


__________________

Upper-class moneyed useage?   I'd like to see a bit of proof before accepting that assertion, kiddo.   My uncle was a merchant seaman, and he and his buddies used to
use 'kiddo' and 'bucko' all the time.  They were not upper-class, were not moneyed, and were not from the east coast of anywhere around here.


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## Mr X

Some more 'o' words:

dero - means a homeless person, and it comes from the word 'derelict'
ambo - ambulance officer
garbo - garbage collector
pyro - pyromaniac
Salvo - person from the Salvation Army
servo - service station
unco - uncoordinated
psycho - psychopath/ic
arvo - afternoon

That's all I can think of for now.

Mr X.


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## estefanos

Mr X said:
			
		

> Some more 'o' words:
> 
> dero - means a homeless person, and it comes from the word 'derelict'
> ambo - ambulance officer
> garbo - garbage collector
> pyro - pyromaniac
> Salvo - person from the Salvation Army
> servo - service station
> unco - uncoordinated
> psycho - psychopath/ic
> arvo - afternoon
> 
> That's all I can think of for now.
> 
> Mr X.



An interesting list!    I've never heard of many of these words, and wonder if they might be limited to Australia.  Perhaps others could comment.  

Au only?:   
        dero - means a homeless person, and it comes from the word 'derelict'
        ambo - ambulance officer
        garbo - garbage collector
        Salvo - person from the Salvation Army
        servo - service station
        unco - uncoordinated
        arvo - afternoon

Au & US & ?
        pyro - pyromaniac
        psycho - psychopath/ic



PS: in the list titles above, could I have put "Oz" in place ot "Au" without giving offense?  I've seen people use "Oz" before, in a way that seemed quite positive.


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## Mr X

estefanos said:
			
		

> PS: in the list titles above, could I have put "Oz" in place ot "Au" without giving offense?  I've seen people use "Oz" before, in a way that seemed quite positive.



Yeah, that would have been fine. As far as I know, there's nothing negative about saying 'Oz'. It's funny though, because in my experience, it's not used that much by Australians unless they're talking to someone from another country.

And I wouldn't be too suprised if most of those words are only used in Australia. We dream up some weird slang sometimes!

Mr X.


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## cirrus

Avo as in afternoon seems to be settling quite happily into BE - years of Australian soaps has seen to that.  As for the rest I think they have yet to stray north.


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## sanspacey

Hello, everyone
Is this form ending in "o" for certain adjectives quite usual? Did I spell it correctly, by the way? Thank you.


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## comsci

Are you talking about "weirdo"? I'm not too sure about "wirdo."


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## sanspacey

Gosh, yes, it's weirdo. My mistake, sorry.


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## comsci

Words ending with an "o" that prompt to my mind are "weirdo" and "kiddo". Maybe others would give more examples. Just wait. 

PS: They are, however, not adjectives but nouns.


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## Brioche

There a lots of slang nouns and adjectives ending in -o in Australia.

Blotto = drunk
Gizmo = thing, what's-it, &c 
Garbo = garbage/trash/rubbish collector
Pinko = [person] with communist sympathies [_old fashioned_]
Metho = methylated spirits, denatured alcohol
Troppo = crazy, as a result of living in the tropics
Bottle-o = bottle shop, off-licence, take-away liquor outlet, person who collects bottles for recycling.
Yobbo = uncouth loudmouth
Derro = derelict person, vagrant
Kero = kerosine/kerosene
Agro = agressive, agression
Arvo = afternoon
El cheapo = cheap, inferior
Servo = service station, petrol station, filling station, gas station.


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## comsci

Wow...thanks for sharing them.


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## foxfirebrand

Heres a long, interesting thread we hammered out on this same subject, about a year ago. 63 posts! Lots of interesting stuff.
.

<<This thread now sits on top of the earlier one>>


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## comsci

Very helpful, thanks foxfirebrand.


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## mustafa-

GenJen54 said:


> I don't believe there is any specific grammatical "rule" for this construction. It evolved from everyday colloquial speech.
> 
> "That kid is really weird. He's a weirdo."
> 
> Kiddo is a diminuitive name for "kid," and is normally used only in direct address like a nickname, such as:
> "Hey, kiddo, what are you doing?"
> 
> These two words are exceptions. We generally do not just add "o's" to any word in order to make a new word as those described above.


  hello  how are you doing ? I wish that eveything is wonderful with you.  you said that "o" has not any specified rule but I can see "o" always use as a suffix and it have major use in English language .. I am just new on in this forum and I just want to know the real meaning of "o" .  look at this examples " torpedo" scenario" audio" vidio" ect


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## Cagey

Hello and welcome, mustafa- 

I don't think you can find a single explanation for the *o*'s on all of those words.  _Scenario_, for instance, is adopted from Italian, and the Italian word ends in a *o*.  

_audio_ first appears in combination in _audiometer_. It is derived from the Latin verb stem audi (meaning hear).  And English has a tendency to add _*o*_ to stems of words used in combination to form other words.  (Source: _Oxford English Dictionary_.)

You can find information about the etymology of individual words at the Online Etymology Dictionary.


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## Rana_pipiens

Several of Brioche's ozzie examples are the same (or nearly) in American English:

blotto = very drunk (adjective)
gizmo = thing, what's-it, &c (a mechanical rather than natural object) (noun)
cheapo, el cheapo = cheap, inferior (adjective)

However, *aggro* (noun), which Brioche defines as "agressive, agression," in AE derives instead from "aggravation," as in "I don't need the aggro," given as an explanation for why one is choosing to avoid a frustrating situation.

In one instance that comes to mind, the *-o* ending appears to function as an intensifier:
"Belinda lived in a little white house, 
With ... 
... a realio, trulio, little pet dragon." 
-- Ogden Nash, "The Tale of Custard the Dragon," published 1936

_Realio, trulio_ are (deliberate, I'm sure) misspellings of _really-o, truly-o_.


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## DaylightDelight

I think I've seen right-o and righty-o a few times in stories I read.


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## Forero

Then there are the strange "abbreviations" _combo_ and _condo_.


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## natkretep

_Condo_ is a clipping of _condominium_, and seems to be in a different category from _combo_ which is a clipping from _combination_ *and *a suffix -_o.
_
That would be like _convo_ (for _conversation_) and _muso_ (for _musician_). (The latter might just be Australian, I think.)


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