# Hindi: मांस / माँस



## Wolverine9

Hi,

I've seen both of these spellings in dictionaries. Is this word pronounced with a nasalized vowel or a different type of nasal sound?

Thank you.


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## Shounak

For *मांस *there is no nasalization. It is pronounced as "mangs". For *माँस* I don't know the reference, the symbol is nasalization as in हाँ.


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## Wolverine9

Shounak said:


> For *मांस *there is no nasalization. It is pronounced as "mangs". For *माँस* I don't know the reference, the symbol is nasalization as in हाँ.



Which of the two is the correct pronunciation? Are both pronunciation used?


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## Shounak

Let me correct my earlier post. Both are correct. Both means meat. Both have nasalization. Some uses the dot, some uses the second symbol.


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## Dib

Shounak said:


> For *मांस *there is no nasalization. It is pronounced as "mangs". For *माँस* I don't know the reference, the symbol is nasalization as in हाँ.



I doubt there will ever be an "ng" (by which, I assume you mean the velar nasal - ङ्‌/ŋ (n with a left-turned tail in IPA)) in that possition in Hindi. Are you sure, you are not Hindifying the Bengali standard pronunciation /maŋʃo/, which contains a velar nasal?

As for me, I have normally seen and heard *माँस* in Hindi*. However, in Sanskrit, the spelling is *मांस*; so, I won't be surprised if that shows up in Hindi usage as well.

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*However, I have to admit that as a native Bengali speaker, my perception of vowel nasality before/after nasal consonants (e.g. m here) is not the best - Bengali neutralizes nasality contrast in that environment. So, take this info on pronunciation with a pinch of salt - better, wait for some native speaker's comment.


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## Wolverine9

Dib said:


> As for me, I have normally seen and heard *माँस* in Hindi*. However, in Sanskrit, the spelling is *मांस*; so, I won't be surprised if that shows up in Hindi usage as well.



Can you describe the Sanskrit pronunciation of *मांस? *Is it different from Hindi (besides the final "a")?


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## Dib

Wolverine9 said:


> Can you describe the Sanskrit pronunciation of *मांस? *Is it different from Hindi (besides the final "a")?



I wish, I could. 

The pronunciation of anusvāra in Sanskrit is a muddy subject. You can take a look at this short thread for a very brief overview:
http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/sanskrit-rules-for-the-anusvaara.2951500


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## Khaanabadosh

Wolverine9 said:


> Which of the two is the correct pronunciation? Are both pronunciation used?



I pronounce and write it as *माँस, *and I think this is more common*.*


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## tonyspeed

Wolverine9 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've seen both of these spellings in dictionaries. Is this word pronounced with a nasalized vowel or a different type of nasal sound?
> 
> Thank you.




Technically, there are only 4 homorganic nasal consonants according to the modern Hindi writing system: n, N, m, and ng. A bindu is only pronounced as n when joined to t,th,d,dh, as N when joined to T, TH, D, DH, as ng when joined to k, kh, g, gh, and as m when joined to b, bh, p,ph.  S has no homorganic nasal consonant (take a look at the complete Devanagari alphabet layout), so this is a strong indication that the bindu when before S is actually a nasal vowel. There may be a few exceptions in reality, but it is a good guideline to remember.


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## tarkshya

tonyspeed said:


> Technically, there are only 4 homorganic nasal consonants according to the modern Hindi writing system: n, N, m, and ng.



Tony ji I think you forgot ञ from च , छ , ज, झ , ञ series. Or did you really omit it on some phonetic grounds?


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## tarkshya

Dib said:


> I doubt there will ever be an "ng" (by which, I assume you mean the velar nasal - ङ्‌/ŋ (n with a left-turned tail in IPA)) in that possition in Hindi.



I concur. I have never heard any heard any velar nasal sound ( ङ्‌ ) in the pronunciation of मांस.


Dib said:


> As for me, I have normally seen and heard *माँस* in Hindi*. However, in Sanskrit, the spelling is मांस; so, I won't be surprised if that shows up in Hindi usage as well.



I always thought Hindi spelling मांस is simply a short form for माँस*, *just as in many words the vowel nasalization indicated by chandrabindu is shortened to a single dot, like in words like haiN. But if मांस spelling is found in Sanskrit too, then may be it had a different pronunciation in Sanskrit.


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## littlepond

In terms of pronunciation, "maaNs" rhymes with "saaNs" (breath), and like the word I mentioned in another thread some days back, the same "N" as in "aaNgan". I write it with the chandrabindu.


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## lachesisdecima

Wolverine9 said:


> Can you describe the Sanskrit pronunciation of *मांस? *Is it different from Hindi (besides the final "a")?



The dot is an anusvara in Sanskrit. There is no nasalisation for that sign in Sanskrit. I think it would mamsa or something similar to that. I do not think people have pinpointed the exact sound for the anusvara but it is close to the म् sound in Hindi. This pronunciation is preserved in Southern languages. In Tamil, the word is மாமிசம் (spelled mamisam, but pronounced mamsam. Tamil script does not have the sign for the anusvara so it uses the ம் (म्). It's spelled மி (मि) here by convention). In a similar fashion in Malayalam, the word is spelled മാംസം (the ം is anusvara for Malayalam and pronounced as म्. So, the pronunciation is mamsam here. Similar to Sanskrit).


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## tonyspeed

tarkshya said:


> Tony ji I think you forgot ञ from च , छ , ज, झ , ञ series. Or did you really omit it on some phonetic grounds?



Yes, I forgot.


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## gagun

lachesisdecima said:


> The dot is an anusvara in Sanskrit. There is no nasalisation for that sign in Sanskrit. I think it would mamsa or something similar to that. I do not think people have pinpointed the exact sound for the anusvara but it is close to the म् sound in Hindi. This pronunciation is preserved in Southern languages. In Tamil, the word is மாமிசம் (spelled mamisam, but pronounced mamsam. Tamil script does not have the sign for the anusvara so it uses the ம் (म्). It's spelled மி (मि) here by convention). In a similar fashion in Malayalam, the word is spelled മാംസം (the ം is anusvara for Malayalam and pronounced as म्. So, the pronunciation is mamsam here. Similar to Sanskrit).


Yes It is also same in Telugu as *Maamsam(**मांसम्).*


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