# עד שקמתי



## flockhat

Hi guys,

I read this in Judges 5:7

חדלו פרזון בישראל חדלו עד שקמתי דבורה שקמתי אם בישראל

What does the word ש before קמתי mean here?

Thanks again.


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## Drink

It means the same thing as אשר.


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## GeriReshef

flockhat said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I read this in Judges 5:7
> 
> חדלו פרזון בישראל חדלו עד שקמתי דבורה שקמתי אם בישראל
> 
> What does the word ש before קמתי mean here?
> 
> Thanks again.


In English you may say - till I stood, till I came, etc;
but in Hebrew it requires a preposition. You cannot say עד קמתי.


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## elroy

Drink said:


> It means the same thing as אשר.


So you can say עד אשר קמתי?


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## Drink

elroy said:


> So you can say עד אשר קמתי?


Yep:

- Gen 27:44: עד אשר תשוב חמת אחיך (until your brother's anger subsides; compare in the very next verse עד שוב אף אחיך, with the same meaning, but using an infinitive instead of a relative clause)
- Gen 29:8: עד אשר יאספו כל העדרים (until all the herds are gathered)
- Ex 32:20: ויטחן עד אשר דק (and he ground [it] until it was fine)

Etc.


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## elroy

Is it common in modern Hebrew?  I don't think I've ever encountered it, and it sounds odd to me.

Also, can אשר substitute for ש- in similar constructions (כמו ש- vs. כמו אשר?)?  And if so, same question as above (is it common in modern Hebrew?).


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## Drink

Well אשר in general is not really used in Modern Hebrew.

But yes, אשר can be used in place of ש in most situations, but not all.

Though I think the usual biblical equivalent of כמו ש is כאשר.


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## elroy

Drink said:


> Well אשר in general is not really used in Modern Hebrew.


Well, it's used fairly frequently in formal contexts.  I've never seen עד אשר or כמו אשר, though.


Drink said:


> Though I think the usual biblical equivalent of כמו ש is כאשר.


Oh, interesting.  So כאשר in Biblical Hebrew doesn't mean "when" but "as/like"?  Or can it mean both?


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## Drink

elroy said:


> Oh, interesting.  So כאשר in Biblical Hebrew doesn't mean "when" but "as/like"?  Or can it mean both?


Both. You have to discern from context.


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## elroy

Thanks.  In Modern Hebrew כאשר only means "when," right?


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## Drink

I'd be hesitant to say only, but if it does ever mean כמו ש, then it's probably pretty rare.


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## elroy

I never realized there was a connection between כאשר and כמו ש-.  This seems similar to how in Spanish, _como_ + subjunctive means _when_!

*Como*_ te *vean* con este corte de pelo se van a reír. _=_ *When* they see you with this haircut they're going to laugh. _


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## Drink

Yep, and in Biblical Hebrew you even have form כ + infinitive, e.g. כִּשְׁמֹעַ = כאשר שמע/ישמע; similar to how עד אשר תשוב is equivalent to עד שוב in the examples above.


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