# A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa - Subjunctive



## Artrella

Hola a todos! Gente necesito traducir esta oración y me quedé un poco trabada.


"A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa"

It was not enough for me that they ???????? me that that was a table



Gracias por su ayuda, Art


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## Irell

that they would have told me... 

dijeran = subjuntivo imperfecto I

Is this helping?


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## Artrella

Irell said:
			
		

> that they would have told me...
> 
> dijeran = subjuntivo imperfecto I
> 
> Is this helping?





Yes, thank you Irell, I thought of it but then I was doubting, but yes I needed that!!!!!


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## Leopold

Creo que tanto "told" como "tell" irían bien. Y no sé si es posible algo como "should tell".
Esperemos la opinión de los que saben.


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## Artrella

Leopold said:
			
		

> Creo que tanto "told" como "tell" irían bien. Y no sé si es posible algo como "should tell".
> Esperemos la opinión de los que saben.





Oh! now I'm doubting again, I had thought of "would have told" as Irell suggested but also I had thought of "tell" because "tell" is "more subjunctive", though maybe more formal as well.


Thanks Leopold


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## temujin

Irell said:
			
		

> that they would have told me...
> 
> dijeran = subjuntivo imperfecto I
> 
> Is this helping?


 
It´s subjuntivo pasado, but still no conditional


It was not enough for me that they told me it was a table

they told you (in the past) it was a table, right....?


by the way, what is the context?


t.


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## Artrella

temujin said:
			
		

> It´s subjuntivo pasado, but still no conditional
> 
> 
> It was not enough for me that they told me it was a table
> 
> they told you (in the past) it was a table, right....?
> 
> 
> by the way, what is the context?
> 
> 
> t.





Hi Temujin! 

The context is this (a paragraph by Julio Cortázar, an argentinian writer)But it is in Spanish and I want to translate it into English for a friend who does not speak Spanish.


"Yo creo que desde muy pequeño mi desdicha y mi dicha al mismo tiempo fue el no aceptar las cosas como dadas.  A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa, o que la palabra "madre" era la palabra"madre" y ahí se acababa todo.
Al contrario, en el objeto mesa y en la palabra "madre" empezaba para mí un itinerario misterioso que a veces llegaba a franquear y en el que a veces me estrellaba"

I translated it into Spanish in this way:

"I believe that since I was a little boy, both my unhappiness and joy, was not accepting things as given.  It wasn't enough for me that they TELL me that that was a table or that the word "mother" was the word "mother" and that was the end of it all.  On the contrary, in the object called table and in the word "moter", it started for me a mysterious journey that at times I managed to get through and in which at times I crashed."


What do you think???

Art


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## adhyhernandez

Hi Luca... a mi me parece que en ese contexto, lo correcto es "told", porque está hablando del pasado. Otra sugerencia, en la frase "... in the object called table and in the word 'mother' started to me a mysterious journey...", ya que el sujeto del verbo empezar, son las palabras mesa y madre..., además suena mejor si dices "that I managed to get through at times and in wich I crashed at times"...

Hope it's been helpful


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## temujin

oohh are you translating an entire book...





			
				Artrella said:
			
		

> Hi Temujin!
> 
> 
> "Yo creo que desde muy pequeño mi desdicha y mi dicha al mismo tiempo fue el no aceptar las cosas como dadas. A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa, o que la palabra "madre" era la palabra"madre" y ahí se acababa todo.
> Al contrario, en el objeto mesa y en la palabra "madre" empezaba para mí un itinerario misterioso que a veces llegaba a franquear y en el que a veces me estrellaba"
> 
> I translated it into Spanish in this way:
> 
> "I believe that since I was a little boy, both my curse and joy, was not to accept things as given. It wasn't enough for me that somebody told me that this was a table or that the word "mother" was the word "mother" and that was the end of it all. On the contrary, the object called table and in the word "mother", a mysterious journey started for me that at times I managed to get through and in which at times I crashed."
> 
> 
> What do you think???
> 
> Art


Hmm. it´s sure better  to have the whole context...
Think that unhappiness/desdicha in this context could be translated as "curse".
The last sentence about the journey still sounds a little odd (...a journey(...) in which I crashed)...


t.


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## Artrella

temujin said:
			
		

> oohh are you translating an entire book...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. it´s sure better  to have the whole context...
> Think that unhappiness/desdicha in this context could be translated as "curse".
> The last sentence about the journey still sounds a little odd (...a journey(...) in which I crashed)...
> 
> 
> t.





Yes!! Please help me!! I'm not a translator.But Temujin, this is a quote not a whole book, thank God!

D'you mean "curse" as "burden"?

Art


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## Leopold

¿De qué libro es Art?


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## Artrella

Leopold said:
			
		

> ¿De qué libro es Art?




Leopold, this is not a book, it's a quote.  But let me check, maybe I can give you more information.

Art


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## badger

Artrella said:
			
		

> Hola a todos! Gente necesito traducir esta oración y me quedé un poco trabada.
> 
> 
> "A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa"
> 
> It was not enough for me that they ???????? me that that was a table
> 
> 
> 
> Gracias por su ayuda, Art



Hi Art

"Would tell" 

Is correct here I think.

Badger.


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## Artrella

http://www.juliocortazar.com.ar/

Here you can read what I want to translate.  Enjoy it!  

Besos, Art


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## Leopold

Does not a quote suppose a bigger something in which it's incluse? (Una "cita", ¿no?)


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## Artrella

Leopold said:
			
		

> Does not a quote suppose a bigger something in which it's incluse? (Una "cita", ¿no?)





Well....er....I don't know Leopold... maybe it is an interview or maybe it's a quotation from a book...
Have you seen that link I posted??

Besos, Art


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## Leopold

It does not let me in right now... anyway it was just out of curiosity. 
 I like very much J.C.


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## temujin

Artrella said:
			
		

> D'you mean "curse" as "burden"?
> 
> Art


Well, yes. thats how I understand it. There´s probably a better word for it , but I´m not sure


t.


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## Leopold

But turning to subjunctive, when would be possible saying "should + inf":

 Es importante que hagas los deberes.
 It's important that you should do your homework.

 Is this possible??


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## Artrella

Leopold said:
			
		

> It does not let me in right now... anyway it was just out of curiosity.
> I like very much J.C.




Leopold, I copied it for you (but when you could go -I've just tried and I could go into that link- read it because it has several interesting things about this great writer) Art,  

*La página de J.C*

"Yo creo que desde muy pequeño mi desdicha y mi dicha al mismo tiempo fue el no
aceptar las cosas como dadas. A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era 
una mesa, o que la palabra "madre" era la palabra "madre" y ahí se acaba todo. 
Al contrario, en el objeto mesa y en la palabra madre empezaba para mi un itinerario
misterioso que a veces llegaba a franquear y en el que a veces me estrellaba."
"En suma, desde pequeño, mi relación con las palabras, con la escritura, no se diferencia
de mi relación con el mundo en general. Yo parezco haber nacido para no aceptar las co-
sas tal como me son dadas."


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## adhyhernandez

Leopold, no creo que sea correcto... debe ser "It's important that you do your homework", eso de los subjuntivos es confuso, pero a mí no me suena "should do" en tu frase


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## Irell

> Es importante que hagas los deberes.
> It's important that you should do your homework.



hagas = subjuntivo presente
dijeran =  subjuntivo imperfecto

so now I'm very curious what the right answer is


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## Leopold

Yes, i know,  that's why i ask... i think i've seen it written somewhere...
Any native speaker could help??


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## Artrella

Leopold said:
			
		

> But turning to subjunctive, when would be possible saying "should + inf":
> 
> Es importante que hagas los deberes.
> It's important that you should do your homework.
> 
> Is this possible??




I would say "It is important that you do your homework" (here you don't see the difference between subjunctive and indicative mood because it's the second person)  But look at this sentence:

"It is important that he do his homework" (this is subjunctive mood but according to the natives this is formal and not much used).  They say
"It's important that he does his homework"


The form "Should" I think is more used to give advice.

"You should do your homework"
"He should do his homework"


Art


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## Artrella

Hey, I found these examples in the past tense!


"The judge recommended that Simmons *remain * in prison for at least three years"

"We considered it desirable that he *not leave* school before finishing his exams"


So, my first sentence with "tell" was correct!

A mí no me bastaba con que me *dijeran* que eso era una mesa
"It wasn't enough for me that they *tell* me that that was a table"



What do you think people?


Art


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## Leopold

I've found these for the present (and the past!) tense using "should"!

It is very important that you should be aware that, in New South Wales where these terms were first introduced, the Government is now actively taking advice on how the legislation and its terminology can be improved.

AntiFirewall will work fine with most email client software but it is important that you should be comfortable with the particular program you choose.

 I just want her to be happy and she felt it was important that you should be married and settled before we set the date.

That would be extremely helpful, I hope you don't mind my intervening, I thought it was important that you should be aware of these matters at this early stage.
-----------

I think, as i said, that both are correct.  tell/told
"should" maybe is usable just with some constructions... i should check it out...


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## Artrella

OH, my God!!! Are we going to find out the answer to this subject???!!!!!


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## badger

Hi every one.

I've been following this thread with interest, and this post is just to bring it back to the front of the queue.

I'm hoping to see some more comments.

Badger.


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## Artrella

badger said:
			
		

> Hi every one.
> 
> I've been following this thread with interest, and this post is just to bring it back to the front of the queue.
> 
> I'm hoping to see some more comments.
> 
> Badger.






To the front of the queue??????????   Yes, I think so, do you say to begin from scratch in English???   

Art,


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## sastrem92

Artrella said:
			
		

> Hola a todos! Gente necesito traducir esta oración y me quedé un poco trabada.
> 
> 
> "A mí no me bastaba con que me dijeran que eso era una mesa"
> 
> It was not enough for me that they ???????? me that that was a table
> 
> 
> 
> Gracias por su ayuda, Art



En este caso en particular podríamos ponerlo en pasiva:

*To me it was not enough to be told that that was a table.*

¿Qué os parece?


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## Artrella

sastrem92 said:
			
		

> En este caso en particular podríamos ponerlo en pasiva:
> 
> *To me it was not enough to be told that that was a table.*
> 
> ¿Qué os parece?





Sí, me gusta!!!  Parece captar más el sentido de la oración en español.
Quizás es mejor usar algo parecido antes que la traducción literal para mantener la intención del autor.  No?

Gracias, Sastrem!

Art


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## sastrem92

De nada.
Feliz fin de semana.


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## Artrella

sastrem92 said:
			
		

> De nada.
> Feliz fin de semana.





Muchas gracias y espero que vos también tengas un hermoso fin de semana.  Suerte!!! Art


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## juanma

Simple definitions as `that is a table´ would definitely not satisfy my curiosity.


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## Artrella

juanma said:
			
		

> Simple definitions as `that is a table´ would definitely not satisfy my curiosity.





What would satisfy your curiosity in that case??? I'm interested in knowing (please I want to satisfy my own curiosity!)


Saludos, Art


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## dave

It was not enough for me that they told me that that was a table
 It was not enough for me that they used to tell me that that was a table
 It was not enough for me that they would tell me that that was a table
 It was not enough for me to be told that that was a table

 It was not enough for me that they would have told me that that was a table
 It was not enough for me that they should tell me that that was a table

 It was not enough for me that they tell me that that was a table

No time to explain at the moment!


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## Artrella

dave said:
			
		

> It was not enough for me that they told me that that was a table
> It was not enough for me that they used to tell me that that was a table
> It was not enough for me that they would tell me that that was a table
> It was not enough for me to be told that that was a table
> 
> It was not enough for me that they would have told me that that was a table
> It was not enough for me that they should tell me that that was a table
> 
> It was not enough for me that they tell me that that was a table
> 
> No time to explain at the moment!





What happens with that warning Dave?? I don't understand! When you have time please could you explain this to me??

Thx, Art


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## dave

OK, but I've got to be quick. 

I think that that sentence is incorrect - it sounds very strange and completely wrong to my ears. I don't believe that it needs the subjunctive. 

I think it is different from your examples above ("The judge recommended that Simmons remain in prison for at least three years", "We considered it desirable that he not leave school before finishing his exams"), because verbs of _recommending _ and _considering _ can take the subjunctive whereas the verb _to be_ doesn't. Putting them into the present tense for ease of comparison we get:

1 I recommend that he go to Spain  
2 I recommend that he goes to Spain   (although more commonly said than 1, because we don't like or understand the subjunctive)

3 I am happy that he goes to Spain  
4 I am happy that he go to Spain  (only a non-native speaker would say this)

Does this help?

However anyone with a better knowledge of English grammar than me (which is practically everyone around here!) may well prove me wrong - I'm sure Focalist or Garry will be along soon!

As I've said before Art, the least competent people to offer informed opinion on the use of the subjunctive in English are us native English speakers!


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## juanma

Hi Artrella. I was simply trying to rephrase the sentence so that the original meaning would not be somewhat lost in translation. I don´t think I quite succeeded though. 

Here´s a second try:

I would not be quite satisfied with plain and simple word definitions such as `that is a table´


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## Artrella

juanma said:
			
		

> Hi Artrella. I was simply trying to rephrase the sentence so that the original meaning would not be somewhat lost in translation. I don´t think I quite succeeded though.
> 
> Here´s a second try:
> 
> I would not be quite satisfied with plain and simple word definitions such as `that is a table´





HA HA HA HA !!!!! Thx Juanma!!!


Art


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