# gender of animal names



## orangejoysoars

Mi scusi, penso che sia una domanda proprio stupida....communque....

Si dice "la mia gatta"??  Seconda me, e sembra un po' strana, forse perchè non mai avuto un gatto, (e non le piace, scusi!!)

Grazie


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## Curandera

Yes. Il mio gatto, la mia gatta. 
Correct.


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## Alxmrphi

Curandera said:


> Yes. Il mio gatto, la mia gatta.
> Correct.


Non lo sapevo proprio!

La mia cane? ............. (al posto di *il mio*)
La mia scimpanzé? ......... (al posto di *il mio*)

??


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## MatteoSamuele

Absolutely correct. Il mio gatto (male) - la mia gatta (female). 
This cannot be done with all pets... it just depends on how "sensitive" your friends are. You can say you have a male dog saying "_ho un cane_" but it may sound rude to someone if you say "_ho una cagna_" (female). In this case the word "cagna" just sounds so bad and we often say something similar that is "_cagnona_" or "_cagnolona_" (both meaning big female dog and it gives a "tender" message about your pet).


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## Curandera

Probably I am missing something...
What's the real question here?


Ho un cane, in verità è una cagna. It's not rude. It's just how we call a she dog. 
Of course we may call our pets 'cagnetta/cagnone/cagnolona/cagnolone but it goes without saying that the female name for a dog is 'cagna'.
I believe that the same thing happens in English with the word 'bitch'. It depends on how you use it, or am I mistaken?


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## orangejoysoars

Grazie mille

I was just hoping for clarification as to whether the noun changes when it's a female cat, I assumed that the possessive pronoun would change as well....

I was just thinking about how person is always feminine "la persona" and what it changes to if you are referring to a male person.  

Maybe I should start this as another thread, apologies


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## Alxmrphi

Ciao Curan, I didn't think gender of nouns was interchangeable with the gender of the pet, so I asked if you could do it with dog / chimpanzee (as a joke), so I am not sure what you're missing! 

But basically I presume it's like Matteo said, can be done for some pets but not all.
*Question: which pets?*



> I was just thinking about how person is always feminine "la persona" and what it changes to if you are referring to a male person.


Hi orange, we're still on topic here I think, I am used to Italian being very rigid, like_ persona_ is *always* _feminine_, and the most masculine boxer would still say "_Sono una persona arrabbiata, muscolosa_", so this question about cats threw me because I didn't think you could use that...


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## orangejoysoars

So if I was to talk about my (imaginary!) female dog, would I not be able to say la mia cane??


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## MatteoSamuele

Orange, if you want to say that you have a female cat the literal translatio would be
_Io ho una cagna_ (but sounds baaaaad!!!), so you can use
_Ho una cagnolona_ (big tender female dog)
_Ho una cagnolina_ (little tender female dog)
Or just split the sentences in two parts: _Ho un cane, è una femmina_.


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## Alxmrphi

(Matteo, I think you meant dog in the first line )
For other pets, does the gender of the word usually stick, like would you make a distinction between *coniglio / tartaruga* (my friend has one) ?

Am I right in thinking this is mainly a dog / cat thing?


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## Curandera

I edited my post because I realised that I was slower.

Io ho una cagna doesn't sound bad, at least to me. 
It's how we call a she dog.


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## Alxmrphi

Ah ok, I think the point was about not changing the word but rather just the gender of the article / noun to indicate the gender is different, I see there are two words for dogs in both genders, or rather, for both genders so I don't think it's the best example for orange's question.

However, regarding cat, you can say un gatto / una gatta (I'm treating this more as an exception)
Are there any other animals this works with?


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## MatteoSamuele

Alxmrphi said:


> (Matteo, I think you meant dog in the first line )
> For other pets, does the gender of the word usually stick, like would you make a distinction between *coniglio / tartaruga* (my friend has one) ?
> 
> Am I right in thinking this is mainly a dog / cat thing?


 
OMG what a question... how can I answer? 

Tartaruga is always female

Coniglio... ehm... we just say "_coniglietta_" (little female rabbit). I have never heard _coniglia_, I swear!!! (remember that you can use the word "coniglio" if you want to say that someone is a coward "_sei un coniglio!_" = you are a coward/you don't have courage/you're not brave enough!)

But be back to animals now!!! 

Some pets/animals are always male and some are always female! Of course we all know that they all have "physical" differences but for example, if you say Giraffa it is always feminine... if you want to identify the male animal, in this case you'd say "_il maschio della giraffa_". 
On the other hand if you say Rinoceronte it is always male. To identify the female you'd say "_la femmina del rinoceronte_".
And then again _Leone _is male and _Leonessa_ is female... 

...there is no rule for this!!! Hope I've been helpful anyway.


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## Alxmrphi

You've been extremely helpful and informative 
It seems it's just as complicated (maybe even more so) than English in the duality of some forms and none for others that_ just have to be learnt_. 

I can think of masculine / feminine forms for a dog (dog / bitch), for a tiger (tiger / tigress), for a pig (pig / soe), for a sheep (sheep, ewe) but when I get to a horse, nothing...
Well we have the word *mare*, but nobody uses it.. many people use things like you said with Italian and use the masculine name when there is actually an established (but mainly rare) female name for it..

I'm getting all confused with my animals now... but in general, your rule was, not all animals change gender, a cat can, some animals have different words and others you can say "the female of" and then refer to it by its masculine name (or vice-versa with masculine).


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## MatteoSamuele

Alxmrphi said:


> You've been extremely helpful and informative
> It seems it's just as complicated (maybe even more so) than English in the duality of some forms and none for others that_ just have to be learnt_.


 
I am glad that I've been helpful but in Italian the gender may change if the noun is singular or plural. For example one finger = _un dito_ (masculine). two fingers = _due dita_ (feminine)... on my left hand one finger is warm and the other four are cold = _nella mano sinistra ho un dito caldo_ (masculine) _e le altre quattro fredde_ (feminine)...

...it's a disaster!


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## MatteoSamuele

If this can help:
Tigre is always feminine
Pantera is always feminine
Cavalla can be correctly used
Pecora is always feminine
Capra is feminine and it become caprone to masculine

For the pig we have something weird... maiale is male, but the famale of this animal changes completely and it becomes scrofa (you may hear someone say maiala... it's really colloquial and not correct...)
Please tell me if u need more!!!


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## orangejoysoars

Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to help me out with this, I've learnt a lot!!


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## Alxmrphi

Is it true that, adding the suffix -one to an animal changes it to masculine, so* la mia tigre* would become *il mio tigrone*, this is quite regular throughout Italian isn't it?
(i.e. cavallone / pecorone) ?
I think we might be heading off the topic of conversation so it's probably best to end it here.


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## MatteoSamuele

Alxmrphi said:


> Is it true that, adding the suffix -one to an animal changes it to masculine, so* la mia tigre* would become *il mio tigrone*, this is quite regular throughout Italian isn't it?
> (i.e. cavallone / pecorone) ?
> I think we might be heading off the topic of conversation so it's probably best to end it here.


 
...sorry for writing too much but I just feel I wanna help (I subscribed yesterday and I love it!!!)

as you correctly said _La Mia Tigre_ changes in _Il Mio Tigrone_.
Cavallone may have a _double meaning_... *one big male* horse or *several female big* horses.
Pecorone can be used but it sounds funny... we use it for people who have many difficulties in understanding simple things... it's just one of one thousad ways to say "stupid".


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## Curandera

Il suffisso - *one *è accrescitivo e non viene usato per definire il sesso dell'animale.

Il cavallo (maschile) la cavalla (femminile)
Il gatto (maschile) la gatta (femminile)
L'asino (maschile) l'asina (femminile)
La tigre maschio/femmina 
Il cane (maschile) la cagna (femminile)

cavallone/pecorone may have different shades of meanings so, we'd better not delve into it right now. ;-)

Hope this helps.


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## Curandera

MatteoSamuele said:


> ...sorry for writing too much but I just feel I wanna help (I subscribed yesterday and I love it!!!)
> 
> as you correctly said _La Mia Tigre_ changes in _Il Mio Tigrone_.
> 
> La mia tigrona = il mio tigrone (accrescitivo)
> La mia tigrotta = il mio tigrotto (vezzeggiativo)
> 
> I believe that we are messing things up a bit for the poster to understand it clearly. I would suggest to stick to the original question without making things more complicated.


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## orangejoysoars

This is so, so helpful, it's great!  I'm glad you joined up Matteo.  I just need to learn it all now!


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## marco.cur

La pecora (femminile) il montone (maschile)
La capra (femminile) l'ariete (maschile)

... and so on


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## maxper

Propongo anche cagnetta che è molto usato nel caso di cane femmina di piccola taglia, in alternativa anche cagnolina.

Quanto al termine coniglia (she-rabbit), io l'ho sentito usare molte volte.


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## doktorenko

Per la femmina del cane si puo` usare anche `cagnola`.


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## lluvioso1

Hello. Can I use the word "panda" for both gender in Italian? I mean *il panda* and *la panda??*


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## Gwunderi

lluvioso1 said:


> Hello. Can I use the word "panda" for both gender in Italian? I mean *il panda* and *la panda??*



No, panda is always male, il panda. If you want to specify that's a "she" you can add "il panda femmina" or "la femmina del panda". In the plural, it's "i panda femmina" (femmina in this case remains singular) or "le femmine dei panda".

An other possibility would be to say "l'orsa panda" (orsa means a female bear), but I would say so only if you use also "l'orso panda".

If you say "la Panda" out of context everybody would think of the car "Fiat Panda" : )


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## lluvioso1

Thank you so much. I have another question: What about the Italian of "cougar"?In this dictionary; http://www.garzantilinguistica.it/ricerca/?q=coguaro 
it says that its male version is coguaro and says also there is feminine version which is coguar*a*. Is it correct?

Also, what is the case for compound animal names? For example; another italian translation for the english animal name "puma" is *"il leone di montagna"*.I know, in italian we have feminine version of "leone" which is _"leonessa"_. Can I apply this into "il leone di montagna" by saying its feminin is *la leonessa di montagna" *to refer to a female puma?


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## Gwunderi

lluvioso1 said:


> Thank you so much. I have another question: What about the Italian of "cougar"?In this dictionary; http://www.garzantilinguistica.it/ricerca/?q=coguaro
> it says that its male version is coguaro and says also there is feminine version which is coguar*a*. Is it correct?



I had also to search if there's a female form of "coguaro" and I also found the same link you indicate:
_«Coguaro è un nome di genere maschile e il suo femminile regolare è coguara*. *Nella tradizione però il nome maschile vale sia per il maschio sia per la femmina: ...»_
(You have to register to read more)

It says that the "regular" feminine version is "coguara", yes, and adds that "traditionally" though the male variant (coguaro) is used for both genders.

Searching with Google I also found another use of the word "coguara" I hear the first time of:
"Coguara" seems to be a new created word for an elderly woman which is a "predator" of young(er) men; the term comes from the USA (a site called "Urban Coguar") and it seems that in Italy it's used only since a few years.
http://www.vogue.it/magazine/blog-del-direttore/2011/10/26-ottobre
And: The first you find searching for "coguara", are lot of porno sites of (allegedly elderly) women "offering" themselves to younger men.

So, as the feminine form is traditionally not used, and in the light of the above, I think I would avoid the feminine form 



> Also, what is the case for compound animal names? For example; another italian translation for the english animal name "puma" is *"il leone di montagna"*.I know, in italian we have feminine version of "leone" which is _"leonessa"_. Can I apply this into "il leone di montagna" by saying its feminin is *la leonessa di montagna" *to refer to a female puma?



Yes you can say "leonessa di montagna", it's perfectly o.k.

(What other compound animal names are there? "Leopardo delle nevi", but there's only a male form of "leopardo" ... I can't find others at the moment, if you think of a specific one you can ask.

Bye, Gwunderi


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## Mary49

Gwunderi said:


> Yes you can say "leonessa di montagna", it's perfectly o.k.


Sorry, but I don't think so. We don't say "leonessa di montagna"; there are only 19 hits on Google and they all belong to fiction contexts (fantasy and adventure).


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## Gwunderi

Mary49 said:


> Sorry, but I don't think so. We don't say "leonessa di montagna"; there are only 19 hits on Google and they all belong to fiction contexts (fantasy and adventure).



But I get about 8'000 results (could make a screen shot), that's not really many, but with "leone di montagna" I also get (only) about 32'000 results. Some examples:

From an book "L'ultima terra" (it's from google.books and the link is too long):
"Poco lontano notarono le impronte di una leonessa di montagna e dei suoi cuccioli. Trassero la conclusione che il piccolo era stato divorato dalle belve."

"Dalla foresta vergine, balza una coguara, una leonessa di montagna fresca di parto e famelica. Nella sua tana troveranno poi i cuccioli che allattava; …"
http://www.memorbalia.it/GRUPPIATTIVI/babs/Zucconibintiealtro.htm

Da un racconto forse si un pò fantasioso:
"A Nord dell'altopiano una leonessa di montagna cercava un posto dove morire. Si era allontanata dal branco e l'istinto la stava guidando verso il grande lago. …"
http://www.cercodivolare.com/rubriche/cortecce/306-il-baobab-la-gazzella-e-la-leonessa.html

If you look for "leone di montagna" in Wikipedia, you are directed to "puma (concolor)", there's no separate voice for it. Although I often hear "leone di montagna", I think "puma" is more used, may also be a reason you find less results for it.

But I can't swear that "leonessa di montagna" is correct, sounds correct to me, and also in the examples above it is used - only it would not be the first time you find a wrong term on several sites.

What do other native speakers think?


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