# Urdu:  ترجدیدیت



## teaboy

How would you explain the* تر* of *ترجدیدیت*?


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## Qureshpor

kyaa yih lafz "par jadiidiyyat" to nahiiN? ya3nii something something par jadiidiyat kaa zabar-dast Hamlah hu'aa?


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## teaboy

جاپانی تمام ترجدیدیت کے باوجود، اب بھی بہت  سادا اور کفایت شعار ہیں۔ 

_tar_ is what I hear, but my ears have told me lies before...


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## Qureshpor

I see!

"tar" goes with "tamaam" and in a way, it is somewhat redundant.

The Japanese, despite all their modernity, are still very simple and (what? Can't think of the translation now!)


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## teaboy

Thrifty or frugal is the word you're looking for. 

Oh! The _tar_ goes with the _tamaam_! If_ tamaam_ is all, and _tar_ is a comparative, how do you make a comparative out of all?? I can see that it is redundant for sure.


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## marrish

As for _tamaam-tar_, it will be ''just more than complete'', perfectly complete, with an emphasis. Same like in _ziyaadah-tar_, overwhelmingly not just ''very much''.


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> MaiN to shaadi ke intezaam meN masruuf thi, janaab!
> 
> جاپانی تمام ترجدیدیت کے باوجود، اب بھی بہت  سادا اور کفایت شعار ہیں۔
> 
> _tar_ is what I hear, but my ears have told me lies before...


aap ke lafz "saadaa" meN ek thoRii sii xaamii hai!


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## teaboy

سادہ I meant to write!

I've always thought of _zyaadahtar_ as "mostly". 

So in _tamaam tar, tar_ is really just adding emphasis?


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## marrish

Yes, _ziyaadah-tar_ is mostly ''mostly'' but I think it is a similar thing as ''_tamaam-tar_'' as a way of making an adjective. I don't know, this is my impression and yes, it is emphasis in _tamaam-tar_ in this case because it can't be logically an adjective here.


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## Qureshpor

^ Well, to my mind "tar" seemed redundant just like "tariin" in some Pashtun names!

Platts, gives this entry. But, I don't know how to reconcile these entries in the context you have provided.

_tamām-tar, adv. Wholly, completely, entirely, altogether:_


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> سادہ I meant to write!
> 
> I've always thought of _zyaadahtar_ as "mostly".
> 
> So in _tamaam tar, tar_ is really just adding emphasis?


aur aap ke "zyaadahtar" meN bhii xalal hai! buraa nah maaniye gaa!


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## marrish

It can be redundant but it adds emphasis as it can't be an adverb here. For me it is the same as Platts says but nowadays it is not only an adjective, as I suggested an emphasis for tamaam and I think I shared something about both tariin-Pashtun and tamaam-tar earlier in the forum.

At most, it will be then an incorrect usage which has evolved to be accepted.


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> aur aap ke "zyaadahtar" meN bhii xalal hai! buraa nah maaniye gaa!


I believe you don't have a hyphen in mind otherwise it would be nit-picking!


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## Qureshpor

You are correct. It would be nit-picking if I had hyphen in mind!


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## teaboy

"Mostly" would be an adverb, as is "wholly", and would modify adjectives or verbs. It shouldn't be used to modify a noun such as "modernity". Hmmn. 

As for my spelling...my spelling is always atrocious...


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## marrish

From the search it doesn't seem I wrote anything about tamaam-tar but I just used it. In the first post as an adverb and in the second as an adjective:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2757965&p=13926649#post13926649
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2570308&p=12956934#post12956934


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> As for _tamaam-tar_, it will be ''just more than complete'', perfectly complete, with an emphasis. Same like in _ziyaadah-tar_, overwhelmingly not just ''very much''.


This has just occurred to me...

The Japanese, despite their *utmost* modernity, are still very simple and thrifty.


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## marrish

As for me, a mere user of the language given me by my mother, you have translated it very well. I hope this usage is alright in Urdu, however as my previous post testifies, I used it once as an adverb and the other time as an adjective with emphasis.


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## Faylasoof

teaboy said:


> How would you explain the تر of ترجدیدیت?






teaboy said:


> جاپانی تمام ترجدیدیت کے باوجود، اب بھی بہت سادا اور کفایت شعار ہیں۔
> 
> 
> tar is what I hear, but my ears have told me lies before...


The use if tar here makes it more emphatic(!) and needn't really be translated, hence my brackets below: 

_The Japanese despite all their (excessive) modernity are still simple and abstemious_


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> This has just occurred to me...
> 
> The Japanese, despite their *utmost* modernity, are still very simple and thrifty.


 This too sounds OK to me QP SaaHib, but I feel we have no need to translate the _tar_ as I say above.


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## teaboy

Thank you all!


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