# Hindi/Urdu: muqaam (मुक़ाम)



## lafz_puchnevala

Hi,

This seems to mean 'place' not very different from 'sthaan/jagaah' with its plural being 'muqaamat'. Do any of you see any finer differences?

Thanks!


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## marrish

Hi, 

It means a place, indeed (one of the meanings). Remarks for Urdu: _jagah جگہ _(not jagaah), _maqaam مقام _(not muqaam), _maqaamaat مقامات _ (not muqaamat).

There are many fine or gross semantic differences because of compound forming possibilities in which the Urdu_ maqaam مقام_ engages, and on the other hand, other likings of Hindi _sthaan_ in compound situations.


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## greatbear

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Hi,
> 
> This seems to mean 'place' not very different from 'sthaan/jagaah' with its plural being 'muqaamat'. Do any of you see any finer differences?
> 
> Thanks!



I as a Hindi speaker see it more than a mere place: more like a destination, position.
By the way, it should be "jagah", not "jagaah".


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## lafz_puchnevala

greatbear said:


> I as a Hindi speaker see it more than a mere place: more like a destination, position.
> By the way, it should be "jagah", not "jagaah".



Destination as in geographical location (synonymous with manzil?), or in terms of achieving one's goals?

Thanks!


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## Abu Talha

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Destination as in geographical location (synonymous with manzil?), or in terms of achieving one's goals?


I understand it more as a way stop than as a destination. Figuratively, it also means a position or standing, e.g., in life, like _rutba_.

Very literally, it means the place where one stands.

EDIT: I can't let this opportunity go without quoting one of my favorite verses!
*maqaam *faiZ ko'ii raah meN jachaa hii nahiiN
jo kuu-e yaar se nikle to suu-e daar chale


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## lafz_puchnevala

greatbear said:


> I as a Hindi speaker see it more than a mere place: more like a destination, position.
> By the way, it should be "jagah", not "jagaah".



Do confirm if it is written as 'muqaam' or 'maqaam' in Hindi. Quite a few Hindi sources do say 'muqaam'.

Thansks!


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## lafz_puchnevala

Abu Talha said:


> Figuratively, it also means a position or standing, e.g., in life, like _rutba_.



Would it then be synonymous with 'martabah' discussed before?

Thanks!


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## Abu Talha

marrish said:


> _maqaam مقام _(not muqaam)


I think both are good. _maqaam_ from _qiyaam_ and _muqaam_ from _iqaamat_. They might have slight differences in meaning.


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## Abu Talha

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Would it then be synonymous with 'martabah' discussed before?


Perhaps in some contexts. martabah has to with one's place in an ordered list. maqaam has to do with the place where one has stopped, or pitched one's tent, so to speak. In the figurative context of rank or status, the direction is upwards, so there is some overlap between where one is placed and where one stops.

Maybe more knowledgeable folk can confirm or challenge this or come up with examples from literature.


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## Qureshpor

And just for gb's benefit if for no one else..

*maqaam* Faiz raah meN ko'ii jachaa hii nahiiN
jo kuu-i-yaar* se nikle to suu-i-daar** chale

No other *place* along the road did I find to my liking
From my beloved's lane I went straight to the gallows

* lane/street of the beloved

** to the gallows

*maqaam*/standing place/stopping place/station

Edit: I don't know when Abu Talha inserted this shi3r in his post. I would of course not have repeated the same shi3r!


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## lafz_puchnevala

Abu Talha said:


> In the figurative context of rank or status, the direction is upwards, so there is some overlap between where one is placed and where one stops.
> 
> Maybe more knowledgeable folk can confirm or challenge this or come up with examples from literature.



Yup, the difference does not seem immediately clear to me, 'position' or 'standing' does seem static at a particular point of time although it may move up or down at some later point of time. Maybe, it can be better explained by simple sentences rather than poetry like the one above which might be too complicated for some who may then not be able to get the context of that example.

Thanks!


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## Abu Talha

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Yup, the difference does not seem immediately clear to me, 'position' or 'standing' does seem static at a particular point of time although it may move up or down at some later point of time. Maybe, it can be better explained by simple sentences rather than poetry like the one above which might be too complicated for some who may then not be able to get the context of that example.


I can't seem to think of any sentences that clarify any difference between them in this context. 

I do want to clarify, however, that even if they are synonymous in this context, maqaam also has the more literal meaning in other contexts, where it can't be replaced with _martabah_:





QURESHPOR said:


> *maqaam*/standing place/stopping place/station


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## greatbear

lafz_puchnevala said:


> Do confirm if it is written as 'muqaam' or 'maqaam' in Hindi. Quite a few Hindi sources do say 'muqaam'.
> 
> Thansks!



Both are correct in Hindi. Yes, one of the meanings of "muqaam" is "manzil", but I agree with post 9: it's more where one is.


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## BP.

greatbear said:


> ...but I agree with post 9: it's more  where one is.


That is makan! maqaam is, afaik, standing ("waa man xaafa maqaama rabbi..."("and he who had xauf of standing before his Lord...")) or as has been said, theplace of standing.


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## Qureshpor

Abu Talha said:


> I think both are good. _maqaam_ from _qiyaam_ and _muqaam_ from _iqaamat_. They might have slight differences in meaning.



I would agree with marrish SaaHib that as far as Urdu is concerned, the word we have in mind is "maqaam", erroneously pronounced as "muqaam". the "muqaam" you have in mind is a different word (about which you are already well aware) with different range of meanings.


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## Abu Talha

QURESHPOR said:


> I would agree with marrish SaaHib that as far as Urdu is concerned, the word we have in mind is "maqaam", erroneously pronounced as "muqaam". the "muqaam" you have in mind is a different word (about which you are already well aware) with different range of meanings.


Well, to be honest, I don't have a very clear distinction in mind. Perhaps muqaam (from أقام يُقِيم) would mean a halt along the some way (perhaps temporary), and maqaam (from قام يقوم) does not indicate its being along any path or its temporal nature and is just a place where one is standing?

Could you elaborate the difference, Qureshpor Sb, if such is not the case? Thanks.

EDIT: Platts, by the way, gives both in the same entry.


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## marrish

Abu Talha said:


> EDIT: Platts, by the way, gives both in the same entry.


An earlier dictionary, upon which Platts apparently based his entry, states as follows: 



> _maqaam, Illit. muqaam, _



and in another instance, 



> _maqaam dena; Hin. Wom. mukaam denaa - To go out to condole with._


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## Qureshpor

Abu Talha said:


> Could you elaborate the difference, Qureshpor Sb, if such is not the case?



From Hans Wehr

maqaam: site, location, position; place, spot, point, locality; situation; station; standing, position, rank, dignity; tomb of a saint, sacred place; key, tonality....

muqaam: raised, set up, erected, etc.; pending (legal action); stay, sojourn; abode, habitat, whereabouts; place of residence; duration of stay..

So, although there is some commonality you can see that the divergence is greater.


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## Abu Talha

QURESHPOR said:


> From Hans Wehr
> 
> maqaam: site, location, position; place, spot, point, locality; situation; station; standing, position, rank, dignity; tomb of a saint, sacred place; key, tonality....
> 
> muqaam: raised, set up, erected, etc.; pending (legal action); stay, sojourn; abode, habitat, whereabouts; place of residence; duration of stay..
> 
> So, although there is some commonality you can see that the divergence is greater.


I guess that clears it up. Thanks. But are you also saying that Urdu does not use muqaam at all even for using it for the meaning of stay, place of residence, etc, i.e., it did not borrow this word?



marrish said:


> An earlier dictionary, upon which Platts apparently based his entry, states as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> _maqaam, Illit. muqaam,_
Click to expand...

Thanks Marrish Saahib.


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## Qureshpor

Abu Talha said:


> I guess that clears it up. Thanks. But are you also saying that Urdu does not use muqaam at all even for using it for the meaning of stay, place of residence, etc, i.e., it did not borrow this word?
> 
> Thanks Marrish Saahib.



Both the "classical" Urdu-Urdu dictionaries give the word as "maqaam".


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## Abu Talha

QURESHPOR said:


> Both the "classical" Urdu-Urdu dictionaries give the word as "maqaam".


Thanks Qureshpor Saahib. Personally, though, I wouldn't raise any eyebrows if someone says muqaam. I'll consider it a new borrowing from Arabic!

By the way, for my knowledge, what are the two classical Urdu-Urdu dictionaries? Also, Marrish Saahib, which dictionary did Platts base his on?

Thanks.


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## Qureshpor

What I had in mind were "Nur-ul-LuGhaat & "Farhang-i-Asafiyyah".


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## marrish

Abu Talha said:


> By the way, for my knowledge, what are the two classical Urdu-Urdu dictionaries? Also, Marrish Saahib, which dictionary did Platts base his on?
> 
> Thanks.




Abu Talha SaaHib, please don't understand me wrong, Platts didn't base his dictionary on any other to the full extent!

He stated: 

''_In the preparation of the work now offered to the public I have availed myself of the labours of my predecessors. I can affirm, however, with confidence, that I have not followed them blindly. I believe the work will be found to be something more than a ''mere compilation'': that, in fact, as regards both matter and form, it will be allowed to have some claim to originality; and that the changes introduced, and the additions made to the vocabulary, are so numerous and extensive that it may justly claim to be considered as substantially a new work. The fact is, I have for many years been engaged in the study of Urdu and Hindi books (in prose and verse) and newspapers with the view of collecting words and phrases for this work. I have thus been enabled, not only to verify most of the words given in the Dictionaries of Shakespear and others, but to supplement them with thousands of new words and phrases and additional meanings of words. Moreover, a long residence in India made me acquainted with much of the living colloquial language not found in Dictionaries, which I was careful to note._''

The entry in question was based on S.W. Fallon's dictionary.
ٓٓ


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## Faylasoof

Abu Talha said:


> I guess that clears it up. Thanks. But are you also saying that Urdu does not use muqaam at all even for using it for the meaning of stay, place of residence, etc, i.e., it did not borrow this word?
> ...


 Just to confirm what others have said. In standard Urdu it is always _*maqaam*_ and never _*muqaam*_, though the latter is heard too. Depends on the company one keeps. We do consider _muqaam_ to be poor diction!


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