# Possession and 3rd person



## Ajace

Good morning and jó reggelt all you!

I met three different forms to indicate the possession for 3th person (he/she):

1) (owner) and (object + possessive suffix)
2)   (owner + nak/nek) and (article) and (object + possessive suffix)
3) (object) and (article) and (owner + é)

So (if I'm not wrong) translation of the simple sentence "the doctor's house" is (it should be):

1) Orvos háza
2) Orvosnak a háza
3) Ház az orvosé


Is it right?

There are differences between the three sentence or I can use them in the same?

In each of three sentences, where I have to add eventually suffixes?
(E.g.: Can you translate the sentence "I see the doctor's house" in the three form?)

Thank you for your valid and always useful help!


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## Zsanna

Hello Ajace,

Your three translations are OK, although the definite article is needed: 1. *az* orvos háza 2. *az* orvosnak a háza and in 3.: *A* ház az orvosé.

1. and 2. are the short and long form of "the doctor's house" (no difference in the meaning) and they are the ones you'd use in your sentence:

Látom az orvos házát/ Látom az orvosnak a házát. 
(The first sounds a bit better just because it is less complicated/shorter.)

In the third case, you have already a sentence - which would be even better if it had a demonstrative e.g. "ez" in it (although not obligatory): 
Ez a ház az orvosé. _This house is the doctor's._

If you made a similar sentence with the previous two, it'd give:
Ez az orvos(nak a) háza. _This is the doctor's house_. 

I suppose you can see the difference a bit more clearly between 1/2 and 3.


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## bibax

I should add that sometimes using of -nak/-nek is necessary, esp. in complex constructions.

For example:

a harmadik gyalogezred első zászlóalja második századá*nak* a parancsnoka
a Magyar Írók Szövetsége folyóiratá*nak* a legújabb száma

(from my _ócska_ textbook


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## CapnPrep

If there are several doctors, but still one house, you still use *háza*, right?
az orvosok ház*a* / az orvosoknak a ház*a* (= az ő ház*uk*)​But is it completely wrong to say:
az orvosok ház*uk* / az orvosoknak a ház*uk*​?


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## Encolpius

1/ Látom az orvos házát. Látom az orvos a házát. 
2/ Látom az orvosnak a házát. Látom az orvosnak házat. (I'd say the latter is possible, too, but sounds poetic to me)
3/ Látom a házat, amely az orvosé. Látom a házat. [Melyiket?] Az orvosét. 

more doctors

1/ Az orvosok háza nagy. (Az orvosok a háza nagy)
2/ Az orvosoknak a háza nagy. 
3/ Az orvosoknak háza nagy. (poetic?)
4/ Az orvosok házuk nagy.
5/ Az orvosoknak házuk van. 
6/ Az orvosoknak házuk nagy.


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## Zsanna

CapnPrep said:


> If there are several doctors, but still one house, you still use *háza*, right?
> az orvosok ház*a* / az orvosoknak a ház*a* (= az ő ház*uk*)​


Yes, that's right.  
Of course, you can express the plural as well: az orvosok(nak a) háza*i*



CapnPrep said:


> But is it completely wrong to say:
> az orvosok ház*uk* / az orvosoknak a ház*uk*?​


Yes, it is not the right form. You always use the 3rd person Sing. form after the 3rd pers. Plural owner. There are some exceptions, though.
E.g.: 
- if the owner is omitted: 
Az autójuk kinn áll az utcán. Their_ car is out on the street_.

- if the owner is the *ő* meaning *ők* in a structure like this: az ő ...juk/jük (az ő hibájuk - _their fault_)

- separated by a verb:
(the owner is not the possessed thing or person's birtokos jelzője): 
az utasok egy halomba rakták értékeiket - _the passengers piled up their valuables_.

(Of course, there are also some cases when it can appear in either forms and it depends on the speaker which form he chooses. But I suggest you don't worry about this.)


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## Zsanna

Encolpius said:


> 1/ ...3/Látom a házat. [Melyiket?] Az orvosét.
> This is a very good trick - if you know what question corresponds to a particular word, you may also understand its use better!
> ....
> 3/ Az orvosoknak háza nagy. (poetic?)
> I would say maybe a bit old, but it sounds nice so it could be poetic...
> 
> 6/ Az orvosoknak házuk nagy.
> No, it is only possible if you separate the owners and the possessed things, like this for example: az orvosok pénzt adtak a házuk felújítására - _doctors gave money to renew their house_


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## CapnPrep

Thanks as always, Encolpius and Zsanna!


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## Encolpius

Encolpius said:


> 5/ Az orvosoknak házuk van.
> 6/ Az orvosoknak házuk nagy.



Althought 5/ is correct grammatically, now after checking it again it sounds unnatural and I'd say:
Az orvosoknak 'van házuk. (A hajléktalanoknak nincs. )
but actually is possible: 
Az orvosoknak 'házuk van. (A hajléktalanoknak meg semmijük)
But it's off-topic, because it's about that mystic Hungarian word order.


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