# Levantine/Gulf Arabic: to spend more time doing/put more energy into doing ... than



## Raspberryjam

How would you say in Levantine/Gulf:

1. "They spend more time talking about the exam and asking questions about it than  they do actually studying for it"

2. They put more energy into arguing about their grades and asking for helping than they do revising for the exam.

Thanks


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## Matat

Levantine
1. بيمضو وقت أكتر عم يحكو ع الفحص و عم يسألو أسئلة عنه من ما بيمضو عم يدرسو له
_byim9'u wa2t 2aktar 3am yi7ku 3alfa79 u 3am yis2alu 2as2ilay 3ano min ma byim9'u 3am yidrisoolo_

2. بيبذلو جهد أكتر و هنن عم بناقشو علاماتهم و عم يسألو لمساعدة من ما بيبذلو جهد عم براجعو للفحص
_byibizlu jihd 2aktar u hinen 3am binaa8shu 3alaamaaton u 3am yis2alu limusaa3ida min ma byibizlu jihd 3am biraaj3u lilfa79._


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## apricots

Those don't sound very idiomatic to me. And you want امتحان not فحص.

I think I'd say something like
1. بحكو وبسألو اسئلة عن الامتحان اكتر من ما بقعدو يدرسو لإلو
2. بناقشو علاماتهن وبطلبو مساعدة اكتر من ما بقعدو يدرسو للامتحان


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## Mahaodeh

apricots said:


> And you want امتحان not فحص.



Both are used, one is more common in sine places, the other in others. You also have اختبار.



Matat said:


> 1. بيمضو وقت أكتر عم يحكو ع الفحص و عم يسألو أسئلة عنه من ما بيمضو عم يدرسو له





Matat said:


> 2. بيبذلو جهد أكتر و هنن عم بناقشو علاماتهم و عم يسألو لمساعدة من ما بيبذلو جهد عم براجعو للفحص



While this might be used and understood, I have to agree with apricots in that it's not so idiomatic. The natural thing to say in JA and PA would be:
1. بحكو عن الفحص أكتر ما بدرسوله
2. بيجادلو في العلامات أكتر ما بيدرسو
Basically it's بعملو أكتر ما بعملو

It's pretty much the same in IA:
يحكون عن الامتحان أكثر مما يدرسوله
يجادلون بالدرجات أكثر مما يراجعون

PS. I wouldn't use يراجعو for revising in PA or JA, it would definitely be understood as vomiting. Not sure about Syrian or Lebanese but I would imagine it's the same.


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## elroy

Matat said:


> Levantine
> 1. بيمضو وقت أكتر عم يحكو ع الفحص و عم يسألو أسئلة عنه من ما بيمضو عم يدرسو له
> _byim9'u wa2t 2aktar 3am yi7ku 3alfa79 u 3am yis2alu 2as2ilay 3ano min ma byim9'u 3am yidrisoolo_
> 
> 2. بيبذلو جهد أكتر و هنن عم بناقشو علاماتهم و عم يسألو لمساعدة من ما بيبذلو جهد عم براجعو للفحص
> _byibizlu jihd 2aktar u hinen 3am binaa8shu 3alaamaaton u 3am yis2alu limusaa3ida min ma byibizlu jihd 3am biraaj3u lilfa79._





Mahaodeh said:


> While this might be used and understood, I have to agree with apricots in that it's not so idiomatic.


 These aren't just "not so idiomatic"; they're wrong and contain numerous mistakes.  Sure, they might be _understood_, but only in the way natives can often understand flawed non-native speech.  These would not be _used _by native speakers.


apricots said:


> 1. بحكو وبسألو اسئلة عن الامتحان اكتر من ما بقعدو يدرسو لإلو
> 2. بناقشو علاماتهن وبطلبو مساعدة اكتر من ما بقعدو يدرسو للامتحان


 بحكوا عن الامتحان وبسألوا أسئلة عنو
There's no need to use بقعدوا here.
يدرسولو, not يدرسوا لإلو
---> بحكوا عن الامتحان وبسألوا أسئلة عنو اكتر من ما بدرسولو

بناقشوا is a neutral "discuss."  For "argue" I would say بتجادلوا.
Again, no need for بقعدوا.
"Revise/review" is براجعوا.
---> بتجادلوا عن علاماتهم وبطلبوا مساعدة أكتر من ما براجعوا للامتحان

With respect to Raspberryjam's query, the biggest issue with these translations (and Mahaodeh's), is that they don't include the "spend time/put energy" aspects, which I assume is really what Raspberryjam is interested in.


apricots said:


> And you want امتحان not فحص.





Mahaodeh said:


> Both are used, one is more common in sine places, the other in others. You also have اختبار.


 I've never heard فحص in Palestinian Arabic.  I've only heard it in Lebanese.  In Palestinian امتحان is a test/exam and اختبار is more like a quiz (an امتحان is bigger/more important/more weighty than an  اختبار).


Mahaodeh said:


> I wouldn't use يراجعو for revising in PA or JA, it would definitely be understood as vomiting.


 I'm surprised to hear you say this!  I've never heard it used with this meaning in Palestinian Arabic, and it's very commonly used to mean "to review/revise."  The only verbs I've ever heard in Palestinian for "vomit" are نتأ and استفرغ.

Finally, here's what I would say in Palestinian to include the "spend time/put energy" elements:

1. وقتهم أكترو حكي وأسئلة عن الامتحان من ما هو دراسة
2. جهدهم أكترو جدل عن علاماتهم وطلب مساعدة من ما هو مراجعة للامتحان


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## Raspberryjam

Thank you all - a very interesting discussion!


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## Matat

apricots said:


> Those don't sound very idiomatic to me.





Mahaodeh said:


> While this might be used and understood, I have to agree with apricots in that it's not so idiomatic.





elroy said:


> These aren't just "not so idiomatic"; they're wrong and contain numerous mistakes. Sure, they might be _understood_, but only in the way natives can often understand flawed non-native speech. These would not be _used _by native speakers.



Ouch! I was 85% confident in what I wrote, so you guys made me doubt myself that I asked a Syrian that I knew. I was going for Damascene, not JA or PA. She said that what I said was neither misunderstood nor something that would strike her as awkward or unnatural, so it might be a matter of differences between regional dialects, though she did say there were numerous ways that the sentence could be rendered. Also, فحص is indeed used in Syrian Arabic as is امتحان.


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## apricots

elroy said:


> Finally, here's what I would say in Palestinian to include the "spend time/put energy" elements:
> 
> 1. وقتهم أكترو حكي وأسئلة عن الامتحان من ما هو دراسة
> 2. جهدهم أكترو جدل عن علاماتهم وطلب مساعدة من ما هو مراجعة للامتحان



Is there a reason that you would say بحكو عن الامتحان وبسألو أسئلة عنو but not حكي عن الامتحان وأسئلة عنو ?


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> I've never heard فحص in Palestinian Arabic.


I've heard it by Palestinians in Jordan, but of course it is probably an influence of Lebanese or Syrian since there are considerable immigrants in Amman.
This comment was about the whole range of dialects asked about (Levantine/Gulf), sorry if that wasn't clear.



elroy said:


> I'm surprised to hear you say this! I've never heard it used with this meaning in Palestinian Arabic, and it's very commonly used to mean "to review/revise."



Huh, really!! I based this comment on a personal experience when I used يراجعوا for revise and it was misunderstood for vomiting. I just assumed at the time that my use of the word was affected by Iraqi Arabic or MSA, apparently it wasn't and the person I was speaking to was the one that didn't know it's use in PA. I don't really recall where that person was from.


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## apricots

For what it's worth, The Olive Tree Dictionary has throwing up listed as the 4th definition for يراجع


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## elroy

Matat said:


> I was going for Damascene, not JA or PA.


 I'm not Damascene, but I'm 99.99% sure your versions are not correct in Damascene Arabic.  With all due respect to your informant, not all native speakers are equipped to provide metalinguistic feedback.  I'll post my comments here and perhaps @be.010 can confirm.


> 1. بيمضو وقت أكتر عم يحكو ع الفحص و عم يسألو أسئلة عنه من ما بيمضو عم يدرسو له
> _byim9'u wa2t 2aktar 3am yi7ku 3alfa79 u 3am yis2alu 2as2ilay 3ano min ma byim9'u 3am yidrisoolo_


*You can't say بيمضوا وقت عم يحكوا.  It has to be بيمضوا وقت وهنّ عم يحكوا
*The elision in the second part of your sentence is not acceptable.  You can't just say بيمضوا.  You need to repeat وقت or reword.


> 2. بيبذلو جهد أكتر و هنن عم بناقشو علاماتهم و عم يسألو لمساعدة من ما بيبذلو جهد عم براجعو للفحص
> _byibizlu jihd 2aktar u hinen 3am binaa8shu 3alaamaaton u 3am yis2alu limusaa3ida min ma byibizlu jihd 3am biraaj3u lilfa79._


*يسألوا لمساعدة is wrong.  It needs to be يطلبوا مساعدة.
*وهنن (or وهنّ) is necessary in the second part of your sentence too.

Additionally, the preposition لـ is pronounced "la," not "li," in Levantine.


apricots said:


> Is there a reason that you would say بحكو عن الامتحان وبسألو أسئلة عنو but not حكي عن الامتحان وأسئلة عنو ?


 حكي عن الامتحان وأسئلة عنو is fine too, but it's longer so mine is preferable.  My issue was with بحكوا وبسألوا اسئلة عن الامتحان (your version), since in that version it's not clear that عن is supposed to go with بحكوا; i.e. the sentence could be misconstrued as "They talk, and they ask questions about the exam."


Mahaodeh said:


> This comment was about the whole range of dialects asked about (Levantine/Gulf), sorry if that wasn't clear.


 That was clear.  I just wanted to add a further specification.


apricots said:


> For what it's worth, The Olive Tree Dictionary has throwing up listed as the 4th definition for يراجع


 It might be very regional within Palestinian Arabic.


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## Raspberryjam

> 1. وقتهم أكترو حكي وأسئلة عن الامتحان من ما هو دراسة
> 2. جهدهم أكترو جدل عن علاماتهم وطلب مساعدة من ما هو مراجعة للامتحان



This is really useful. I was wondering if someone might help me put these into the imperative/command form? So for example:
1. (You need to) Spend more time studying than you do asking the teacher silly questions!!
2. Put more effort into studying than you do bribing the teacher!!

Could you simply put "لازم يكون" before the above sentences, or would you use an appropriate imperative verb? Thanks


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## elroy

I don't think I would translate these literally.  I think the idiomatic equivalent is بدال ما:

1. أدرس بدال ما تضلّك تسأل الأستاذ أسئلة بايخة!
2. إشتغل ع دروسك بدال ما تقعد ترشي الأستاذ!

These aren't literal translations, but I feel like they convey more or less the same tone/feel as the originals.  @Mahaodeh, what do you think?


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> @Mahaodeh, what do you think?


I agree, that would be my choice of words too, also أحسن ما.


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## ayed

1-يتكلمون كثير عن الامتحان ويسألون عنه بدال ما يذاكرون

2-أتعبوا أنفسهم في مناقشة درجاتهم وطلبهم من المدرس ينجحهم بدال المذاكرة والاستعداد للامتحان


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## momai

As far as I can remember, مذاكرة is an exam you write every two months or so. فحص ,also officially known as امتحان, is the exam you do at the end of every semester. A quiz is سبر.


Raspberryjam said:


> How would you say in Levantine/Gulf:
> 
> 1. "They spend more time talking about the exam and asking questions about it than  they do actually studying for it"


تاريين عم بمضو وقت أكتر عطرح الأسئلة والحكي عل امتحان من وقتن بالدراسة


> 2. They put more energy into arguing about their grades and asking for helping than they do revising for the exam.


بيجو عقصص العلامات وطلب المساعدات وبعزبو حالن بدال ما يقعدو يراجعو للامتحانات


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## Raspberryjam

Thanks for all the helpful messages!


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## Tilmeedh

momai said:


> تاريين عم بمضو وقت أكتر عطرح الأسئلة والحكي عل امتحان من وقتن بالدراسة
> 
> بيجو عقصص العلامات وطلب المساعدات وبعزبو حالن بدال ما يقعدو يراجعو للامتحانات



What meaning does (تاريين) convey?

Is (بيجو عقصص) an idiom for 'they argue about' in Syrian?


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## Mohammad346

The word تاري can roughly be translated as: "turns out" or "turns out...all along". Sometimes this word is used with a pronoun attached to it: تاريه (taree), تاريها (tareeha), تاريهن (tareehon).
In some Syrian dialects the هاء in suffixes is silent, so a word like تاريهن becomes تاريين (tareeyon), however, omitting this هاء in writing might make words look confusing.

قصص = stuff
...لما بيجو عقصص = when it comes to stuff like...they...



Raspberryjam said:


> They spend more time talking about the exam and asking questions about it than they do actually studying for it.


I would say: عم يحكوا عن الفحص أكتر ما يدرسولو.


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