# melody (in hiragana)



## Whodunit

Hi,

this question is quite simple: How would you write "melody" in hiragana? I know it should be in katakana, but that would be no problem. I'm having problems with the last "symbol:"

メロデ*ィー*:
めろで*ぃ*？
めろで*ぃー*？
めろで*ぃぃ*？
めろで*ぃい*？​Thanks in advance.


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## nuno

Hm, what does *ー* mean?


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## s_a_n_t_i

It would be... めろでぃー。
ー means that the sound of the previous syllable is elongated, in this case elongates the I. Merodi*i*.

Best regards
Santi


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## nuno

And how do you write it? What keys do you have to press? I already have Japanese keyboard with Katakana selected.


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## s_a_n_t_i

In my Keyboard, pressing the dash (-) button with IME's Hiragana mode on, appears ー.


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## gaer

nuno said:


> And how do you write it? What keys do you have to press? I already have Japanese keyboard with Katakana selected.


Try this: ro-maji

You should get: ローマ字

Gaer


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## nuno

ロ・マジ

I got this...


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## Whodunit

nuno said:


> And how do you write it? What keys do you have to press? I already have Japanese keyboard with Katakana selected.


 
If you have installed a Japanese keyboard, switch to it and try to get the underscore (at least press "shift" and hit the key where you can find - on a US keyboard). You should get ー.



s_a_n_t_i said:


> It would be... めろでぃー。
> ー means that the sound of the previous syllable is elongated, in this case elongates the I. Merodi*i*.


 
Does the ー really exist in Hiragana? I thought one would usually double the vowel or put another vowel after the syllable:

saasaa = さあさあ

Would this be サアサア or サーサー in Katakana?


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Does the ー really exist in Hiragana? I thought one would usually double the vowel or put another vowel after the syllable:
> 
> saasaa = さあさあ
> 
> Would this be サアサア or サーサー in Katakana?


Why would you write it in katakana?  

Gaer


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## Whodunit

gaer said:


> Why would you write it in katakana?
> 
> Gaer


 
Because I've translated (or transcribed) a Japanese text (all three alphabets included) into Hiragana, which is much more readable for me at the moment.


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## timpeac

Whodunit said:


> Because I've translated (or transcribed) a Japanese text (all three alphabets included) into Hiragana, which is much more readable for me at the moment.


Why would wanting to write it in hiragana mean that you need to know the spelling in katakana?


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## Whodunit

timpeac said:


> Why would wanting to write it in hiragana mean that you need to know the spelling in katakana?


 
Oh sorry, I misread Gaer's question. The word さあさあ in katakana was just theoretical. I know that you don't need to write a word in katakana if it already exists in hiragana, but I was asking or suggesting that さあ could either be サア or サー in katakana.

My question was just when to use the lengthening symbol ー and how one would transcribe it in hiragana.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Oh sorry, I misread Gaer's question. The word さあさあ in katakana was just theoretical. I know that you don't need to write a word in katakana if it already exists in hiragana, but I was asking or suggesting that さあ could either be サア or サー in katakana.
> 
> My question was just when to use the lengthening symbol ー and how one would transcribe it in hiragana.


Strangely, no one answered your question, so I'll give it a try.

In general, words written in hiragana are Japanese in origin and do not use the ー symbol.

Loan words, written in katakana, so use the ー symbol. If you are writing words in hiragana for your own study that are really in katakana, I think you should continue to use the ー symbol. To this moment I find katakana about two times more difficult to read than hiragana, so I actually understand what you are doing.

Some people start out with katakana first. I suppose you read best what you learn first.

Gaer


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## Whodunit

gaer said:


> To this moment I find katakana about two times more difficult to read than hiragana, so I actually understand what you are doing.


 
Yes. I can tell you what I am doing: I searched for some good Japanese music (by help of sneeka ) and its lyrics. Of course, they are always in traditional Japanese (kana+kanji), so I can't read it very well and can't decipher the kanji. In order to follow the songs, I converted the text into hiragana only, which is much more readable to me. One word was "merodii" (of course in katakana), so I wasn't sure whether or not one should keep the ー.



> Some people start out with katakana first. I suppose you read best what you learn first.


 
I can read hiragana faster. Why? Because this is the alphabet I most often come across and because I started with it. Katakana is still a bit more challenging, but definitely not as hard as kanji.


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## Xaphirezst

> Oh sorry, I misread Gaer's question. The word さあさあ in katakana was just theoretical. I know that you don't need to write a word in katakana if it already exists in hiragana, but I was asking or suggesting that さあ could either be サア or サー in katakana.


 
It'd be 「サー サー」 instead of 「サアサア」.
Katakana doesn't repeat sounds using another syllable, they use 「ー」 instead.

Technically 「ー」　and the small 「ァ」 - 「ィ」 - 「ゥ」 - 「ェ」 - 「ォ」　are katakana only. So, if you write 「めろでぃー」 in hiragana with the small 「ぃ」 and 「ー」 it's not correct.

But, sure, I'd like to hear from native.


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## gaer

Whodunit said:


> Yes. I can tell you what I am doing: I searched for some good Japanese music (by help of sneeka ) and its lyrics. Of course, they are always in traditional Japanese (kana+kanji), so I can't read it very well and can't decipher the kanji. In order to follow the songs, I converted the text into hiragana only, which is much more readable to me. One word was "merodii" (of course in katakana), so I wasn't sure whether or not one should keep the ー.


Ah, I understand now.  I would use メロディ、メロディー。Both are possible in my IME, showing "melody". Probably it would be best to do this:

メロディー （めろでぃー）

By the way, how is "melody" written in romaji? I have no idea.


> I can read hiragana faster. Why? Because this is the alphabet I most often come across and because I started with it. Katakana is still a bit more challenging, but definitely not as hard as kanji.


Sometimes katakana is more difficult that kanji for me. I started with kanji first, which I know is really strange. 

Gaer


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## gaer

Xaphirezst said:


> It'd be 「サー サー」 instead of 「サアサア」.
> Katakana doesn't repeat sounds using another syllable, they use 「ー」 instead.
> 
> Technically 「ー」　and the small 「ァ」 - 「ィ」 - 「ゥ」 - 「ェ」 - 「ォ」　are katakana only. So, if you write 「めろでぃー」 in hiragana with the small 「ぃ」 and 「ー」 it's not correct.
> 
> But, sure, I'd like to hear from native.


But (めろでぃー) would be fine, as a reminder that this is the way it must be typed to produce メロディー。　　

Gaer


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## Flaminius

I would write "melody" in hiragana as: めろでぃー  but the "macron bar" can be omitted by some.

Now, I would write さあさあ in katakana as: サァサァ but others may write サアサア.

Part of the orthography for the two words is that they should be written in _katakana _and _hiragana _respectively.  If one needs to write them, for one reason or another, in _hiragana _and _katakata_, the original notations such as small vowels and macron bar should be replicated.


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## gaer

Flaminius said:


> I would write "melody" in hiragana as: めろでぃー but the "macron bar" can be omitted by some.


I see that this word is much more common written in hiragana, but do you have any idea why?

めろでぃあす, is exactly the opposite. This hardly occurs in hiragana but is very common as メロディアス。The source is the same, both Japanese words coming from melody, both loan words.

To me this is very strange.  

Gaer


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## Flaminius

Gaerrrrr,  

A quick Google search reveals the predominant _katakana _preference in writing "melody."
めろでぃ : メロディ =  77,800 : 14,200,000.

I am still curious why Whodunit wanted to write this in _katakana_, by the way...


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## gaer

Flaminius said:


> Gaerrrrr,
> 
> A quick Google search reveals the predominant _katakana _preference in writing "melody."
> めろでぃ : メロディ = 77,800 : 14,200,000.


Results 1 - 10 of about 24,700 for "めろでぃー". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 14,200,000 for "メロディー". 

Similar results. I must have typed something wrong. Unbelievable! This is my stupid day. 


> I am still curious why Whodunit wanted to write this in _katakana_, by the way...


I think you have it backwards. I think Who wanted to write it in hiragana because he does not read katakana well yet. I think that is what he said, but now I'm not sure! 

Gaer


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## Hiro Sasaki

In Japanse, we have no " ティ”、　”ディ”　”　tu" sounds.  After the Second War,however, English is taught at school as a obligatory subject.

In my childhood, many old people could not pronounce "P.T.A."  (Ｐａｒｅｎｔｓ
and teacher association ) properly.
They used to say " ピー・チー・エイ”　

My mother 89 years old, can not say " ピー・ティ・エイ　”、


Hiro Sasaki


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## Whodunit

Thanks for all the interesting replies. It's great to see that not even the natives are totally in agreement about this topic. 



Flaminius said:


> I am still curious why Whodunit wanted to write this in _katakana_, by the way...


 
I wanted it the other way round. My intention was to "translate" the traditional lyrics of a Japanese song into hiragana only. However, since the word "merodi" (melody) occured in it, I needed to write it in hiragana as well.

I thought one would have to repeat the ぃ after めろでぃ, which would have looked really strange: two small ぃ's in one row.


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## Hiro Sasaki

メロディ in Katakana, めろでぃ in Hiragana. But, the words of foreign 
origin must be written in Katakana. This is a basic grammatical rule.
めろでぃ is very very rare.  It might be written to create some 
advertising effects and could be used in some what we call "catch
words ",


Hiro Sasaki


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## Maung Maung

Hello! 

I registered today morning and I'm happy in this dicussion.
I'm study in Japanesse one year ago. I want may friends who are use in japanesse language. 

It may be merodeii.<Hiragana> 
めろで*ぃい*

 
 
This is my pleasure.  
Maung Maung from Myanamar (Burma)


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## gaer

Maung Maung said:


> Hello!
> 
> I registered today morning and I'm happy in this dicussion.
> I'm study in Japanesse one year ago. I want may friends who are use in japanesse language.
> 
> It may be merodeii.<Hiragana>


めろでぃい
[/QUOTE]
I am almost positive this is wrong. 


			
				Flaminius said:
			
		

> I would write "melody" in hiragana as: めろでぃー but the "macron bar" can be omitted by some.


He was explaining, I think, how to write this katakana word in hiragana if someone needed to do so in order to understand the kana more easily, to read them. But he and others also explained that the correct forms are:

メロディー、メロディ、with the first one being his preference. 

Gaer


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## Flaminius

gaer said:


> I am almost positive this is wrong.


It is.

There are a few contexts where _katakana _borrowings from European languages should be written in _hiragana_ such as telegram where everything is spelt out in _hiragana _(even kanjis), except for katakana words.  _Katakana _words in this context are all converted _to hiragana _for the purpose of legibility.

Note: I haven't used or received any telegram myself but the above is the ordinary convention by which authors incorporate telegram messages in their works.

Now, conversion from _katakana _to _hiragana _is simple.  Thou shalt transcribe each and every letter into _hiragana_.  This includes 長音記号 (sign for the long vowel), which is ー in _katakana _AND _hiragana_.  Melody, being usually written as a katakana string, メロディー or メロディ, is めろでぃー or めろでぃ in _hiragana _rendering.


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## Hiro Sasaki

s_a_n_t_i said:


> It would be... めろでぃー。
> . Merodi*i*.
> 
> Best regards
> Santi


 
Yes, you are right. But, the second "I" is shorter. So, you can write
" 　メロディ　”　or ”　メロディー　”。

Hiro Sasaki


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## Whodunit

gaer said:


> メロディー、メロディ、with the first one being his preference.


 
Absolutely. 



Flaminius said:


> Melody, being usually written as a katakana string, メロディー or メロディ, is めろでぃー or めろでぃ in _hiragana _rendering.


 
This is the sentence that answers my question. Couldn't you have written this earlier in this thread? (*jk*)


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## Hiro Sasaki

Whodunit said:


> Thanks for all the interesting replies. It's great to see that not even the natives are totally in agreement about this topic.
> 
> I wanted it the other way round. My intention was to "translate" the traditional lyrics of a Japanese song into hiragana only. However, since the word "merodi" (melody) occured in it, I needed to write it in hiragana as well.


 
Now.finally  I understand your intention. But, usually the opposite will be employed by some writers to produce some literary effects.But, 
kanji must not be wriiten in Katakana,. 

For example, 雨ニモマケズ、　風ニモマケズ。。。。　

メロディ　or メロディー　 is acceptable written in Katakana. But, in Hiragana,
めろでぃ  is better, Anyway, "di" is a foreign pronunciation, and it is 
strange to creat a feeling of somethin very Japanese writing めろでぃ 

Hiro Sasaki


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