# Por más que el mono se vista de seda...



## Eladio the Chemist

Hola, existe un dicho en español que dice "Aunque el mono se vista de seda, mono se queda", que también se escucha como "Por más que el mono se vista de seda, mono se queda" o "No importa que el mono se vista de seda, mono se queda". 
Podrían, por favor, ayudarme a decirlo en inglés. Mis intentos:

However much the monkey get dressed of silk, monkey it stays.
Although the monkey get dressed of silk, monkey it stays.
No matter the monkey get dressed of silk, monkey it stays.

Y gracias por adelantado,
Eladio


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## Broccolicious

Hi there

I like the expression!

You could say, "A monkey dressed in silk is still a monkey", but I'm sure we have an equivalent phrase... which I can't think of at the moment!


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## fgetz

EEUU
Mi favorito es:
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.


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## galesa

"Fine feathers do not make fine birds" ??


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## Eladio the Chemist

Okay Gracias A Todos, Pero...., Mis Oraciones En Ingles, ¿estan Bien?

Y Gracias De Nuevo!!!!
Eladio


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## Broccolicious

Wow - I've just found this version online: 

'An ape's an ape, a varlet's a varlet, though they be clad in silk or scarlet.'

I'd never heard that before! I think Fgetz and Galesa are spot on.


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## galesa

As to your phrases:
However much the monkey gets dressed in silk, monkey it stays.
Although the monkey gets dressed in silk, monkey it stays.
No matter if the monkey get dressed in silk, monkey it stays.


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## fgetz

EEUU
You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy.
A leopard cannot change its spots.


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## Eladio the Chemist

Gracias otra vez, I liked that one: 'An ape's an ape, a varlet's a varlet, though they be clad in silk or scarlet.'

Eladio


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## FromPA

Eladio the Chemist said:


> Okay Gracias A Todos, Pero...., Mis Oraciones En Ingles, ¿estan Bien?
> 
> Y Gracias De Nuevo!!!!
> Eladio


 
They're all literal translations, but they don't sound natural.  Broccolicious offered the best translation: "A monkey dressed in silk is still a monkey".  A more literal option would be: Although a monkey may be dressed in silk, it's still a monkey (or it remains a monkey) - but I like Broccolicious' option better.


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## Cecilio

I have always heard this expression with "mona rather than "mono". I would say:

*Aunque la mona se vista de seda, en mona se queda.*


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## Eladio the Chemist

FromPA said:


> They're all literal translations, but they don't sound natural. Broccolicious offered the best translation: "A monkey dressed in silk is still a monkey". A more literal option would be: Although a monkey may be dressed in silk, it's still a monkey (or it remains a monkey) - but I like Broccolicious' option better.


 
What you wrote is an interesting point!
Please tell me, as I´m not native, would the following sentences sound natural?
However much a monkey gets dressed in silk, it remains a monkey.
Although a monkey gets dressed in silk, it remains a monkey.
No matter if a monkey gets dressed in silk, it´s still a monkey.

And thanks in advance!
Eladio


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## Broccolicious

Hi Eladio

I'm sorry, but none of those sentences sounds natural. You could use FromPA's translation, or mine, which both sound OK.

Hope that helps!


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## fgetz

EE.UU.
Despite my name, get rid of "gets" and replace it with "be" or "is" (I prefer "be")


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## FromPA

Eladio the Chemist said:


> What you wrote is an interesting point!
> Please tell me, as I´m not native, would the following sentences sound natural?
> However much a monkey gets dressed in silk, it remains a monkey. "However much" refers to the degree or quantity of something, which doesn't make sense when speaking of being dressed in something.
> 
> Although a monkey gets dressed in silk, it remains a monkey.  Although you may dress a monkey in silk, it's still a monkey.   I think you need the auxillary "may" to provide the indefinite sense of the sentence.  Or maybe,   A monkey dressed in silk remains a monkey.
> 
> No matter if a monkey gets dressed in silk, it´s still a monkey.  You can dress a monkey in silk, but it's still a monkey.  "No matter" sounds literary or poetic.  In speaking you might say "it doesn't matter if..."
> 
> And thanks in advance!
> Eladio


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## Eladio the Chemist

Okay, thanks again! I´m so disappointed I cannot write and speak properly, natural!
There´s nothing I can do, unless I could go living in England or in America or Australia...
I´ll insist trying to do my best here!
Eladio


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## Eladio the Chemist

Can I say, for example:
However much that flour may be, it won´t be enough to prepare so many pastries.
Hoever many of them may come, the party will be a real bore

Do they sound "natural"?

And thank you again!
Eladio


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## sound shift

The problem here is that a word-for-word translation of a Spanish "frase hecha" rarely provides an English "frase hecha". It is possible to produce a completely grammatical English expression about a monkey dressed in silk, and most native speakers would understand it, but it won't make as much impact as a set English expression such as "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".


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## Eladio the Chemist

Thank you "Sound Shift". Could you tell me the best way to say in good English what I tried to say by using "However much" and "However many"? I´ll appreciate that very much. Maybe even some examples of yours too?
Eladio


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## sound shift

Well, you could say "However much you dress a monkey up, it remains a monkey", but it is not "natural", because it is not used by native speakers.


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## Eladio the Chemist

Oh, thank you, but I mixed up or you did, I don´t know, I was referring to my sentences:
However much that flour may be, it won´t be enough to prepare so many pastries.
However many of them may come, the party will be a real bore

Sorry,
Eladio


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## FromPA

Eladio the Chemist said:


> Can I say, for example:
> However much that flour may be, it won´t be enough to prepare so many pastries.
> Hoever many of them may come, the party will be a real bore
> 
> Do they sound "natural"?
> 
> And thank you again!
> Eladio


 

Sorry, but no, they don't.  I'm not sure I understand the intended meaning of the phrases without more context.  For instance, "however much that flour may be" means to me "however much that flour costs."  If you're talking about the quantity of the flour, I would say, "However much flour there may be" (or "there is") or, more colloquially, "no matter how much flour there is (or "there may be").  But then the second part of the phrase - "it won't be enough" - doesn't seem to follow logically, and the use of "so many" doesn't seem to fit, but I'd have to know the context.


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## Eladio the Chemist

I´m really sorry, I mixed up I think, or you did it, I don´t know. I was referring to my sentences:
However much that flour may be, it won´t be enough to prepare so many pastries.
However many of them may come, the party will be a real bore
Could you tell me the best way to put them in good English? I´ll appreciate that very much and maybe even some examples of yours too?

Sorry again,
Eladio


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## peterfenn

_As much flour as there is, it won't be enough to make all the pastries._
_However many people come it will still be a boring party._

But as stated I think by sound shift, the most you could say about these sentences is that they are gramatically correct and make sense, but not that they are recognised ways of expressing an idea about something else (set phrases).


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## Eladio the Chemist

Okay, the only way I have to tell you what I want to say in putting it in Spanish:

Por mucha que sea esa harina (esa cantidad de harina), no será suficiente para preparar tantos pasteles.
Por muchos que vengan (Por muchas personas que vengan), la fiesta será un verdadero aburrimiento.

I want to use "However much and However many". Is that possible?
Eladio


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## peterfenn

You can use "however many" for the second one, but neither are okay for lo de la harina I'm afraid.


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## Eladio the Chemist

How aobut these:
*However much money he has, he will never be happy. *
*However many things he has, she will never be happy. *


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## Broccolicious

Hi there

But, Eliado, you can use 'no matter' for all of these:

No matter how much / However much flour there is, there won't be enough...
No matter how many of them come / However many of them come...
No matter how fast you run / However fast you run, you won't catch the bus.
No matter how quiet you are / However quiet you are, he will still hear you.
No matter what you wear / Whatever you wear, you always look like a model / idiot.
No matter where I go / Wherever I go, that man is always following me.

Hope that helps!

Broc

PS Pastries and parties - I like your examples!


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## peterfenn

Eladio the Chemist said:


> How aobut these:
> *However much money he has, he will never be happy. *
> *However many things he has, she will never be happy. *


 
Perfect.


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## Broccolicious

Eladio the Chemist said:


> How aobut these:
> *However much money he has, he will never be happy. *
> *However many things he has, she will never be happy. *


 
Both correct!


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## Eladio the Chemist

At last I got it! I can breath now deeply and happy!
Eladio (Thank you all of you!)


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## aliciagr

I love this phrase! I just learnt it.

I believe this english phrase has the same value:

"You can put a pig in a dress but you can't stop it grunting"


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## kimuchi

There is a song by the Shortwave Set called No Social which uses the phrase: a dog dressed in clothes is still a dog.
http://www.6lyrics.com/no_social-lyrics-the_shortwave_set.aspx


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## gringon

A monkey dressed in silk is still of apish ilk?
Though in silk he be draped, an ape is still an ape?


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