# masz królową



## KasiaS

In the song "Dwie Bajki" Doda sings

_Wiem że Ty też masz królow_*ą *

Shouldn't it be królow*ę? *


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## JakubikF

No, definately, it shouldn't be królowę...there is no such form of word królowa with ę at the end. Look at the nominative form "królowa" - you have "a" at the end, then why do you think it should change into ę instead of ą?


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## elroy

JakubikF said:


> Look at the nominative form "królowa" - you have "a" at the end, then why do you think it should change into ę instead of ą?


 Because that's the rule! Feminine nouns ending in _-a_ in the nominative take _-ę_ in the accusative (by the way, there's absolutely no logical reason to expect that -_ą_ would be more likely than -_ę _just because -_ą_ looks more like -_a_. ). The ending -_ą_ is used to form the instrumental and to inflect adjectives modifying these nouns in the accusative.

Example:

Nominative _książka_
Accusative _książkę_ 
Instrumental _książką_
Accusative with adjective _dobrą książkę_

The word _królowa_, then, appears to be an exception. Perhaps it's treated like an adjective because _-owa_ is a common adjective ending and you can think of it as _król + owa_.


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## JakubikF

elroy said:


> Perhaps it's treated like an adjective because _-owa_ is a common adjective ending and you can think of it as _król + owa_.



 I apologize - my mistake. I think that treating it as a adjective is a good explanation. We can consider other similar words with ending "-owa" and all of them need to be declined with "ą" in accusative e.g. surnames of married women: Boczkowa (Boczkową), Kowalowa (Kowalową) etc. (they used to be called like that in the past, nowadays this form of women surnames is not so popular).


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## Thomas1

Surprisingly, _królewna_ is declined according to the normal pattern:
_królewna_
_królewnie_
_królewny_
_królewnę_
_królewną_
_królewnie_

The word _królowa_ is indeed declined as though it were an adjective.

Tom


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## Hal1fax

Zobaczylem tez kiedys w tej piosence 'masz krolowa' i myslalem ze byl blad.....


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## ryba

JakubikF said:


> I apologize - my mistake. I think that treating it as a adjective is a good explanation. We can consider other similar words with ending "-owa" and all of them need to be declined with "ą" in accusative e.g. surnames of married women: Boczkowa (Boczkową), Kowalowa (Kowalową) etc. (they used to be called like that in the past, nowadays this form of women surnames is not so popular).



Your reasoning is absloutely right: żona prezydenta (czyli pierwsza dama) to prezydentowa. Mrs Robert Smith, (Robert Smith's wife) would be translated as (Pani) Robertowa Smith (it sounds very English to us).

Widening the rule, as the queen is (usually) the king's wife, _królowa_ is formed AND conjugated just like these nouns.
This way: "Masz królową." BUT "Masz krowę." (krowa jest żoną byka).

BUT SZEFOWA is not the boss' wife. Szefowa is simply a feminine noun form of szef (boss).


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## Thomas1

ryba said:


> [...]Mrs Robert Smith, (Robert Smith's wife) would be translated as (Pani) Robertowa Smith (it sounds very English to us).
> [...]


Hi Ryba,

You will have to elaborate on this one please. I have never seen that and to me it doesn't sound English but it sounds like a poor translation. Could you give some life examples of such usage please? 

Sometimes, you do use/hear however this sort of formulation when referring to someone's wife like Jarkowa, Markowa, etc., but, if I were to label it, to me this is rather redolent of rural parlance. The given example it just doesn't hold water... 

Besides, isn't this _Mrs Robert Smith_, as put by you, simply the name of a woman?

Input appreciated. 

Tom


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## JakubikF

I must say ryba that I don't understand your opinion at all... Robertowa??? If a man had a surname Robert then his wife could be called "Robertowa". Until it is a name I don't see logical path to call a Marek's, Robert's, Zdzisiek's wives Markowa, Robertowa, Zdziśkowa...


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## ryba

Thomas1 said:


> Hi Ryba,
> 
> You will have to elaborate on this one please. I have never seen that and to me it doesn't sound English but it sounds like a poor translation. Could you give some life examples of such usage please?



Hi, Thomas. This is not a poor translation, just a way to translate this (quite old-fashioned) way of calling a woman using her husband's name used in English-speaking countries. You must have read it somewhere, I saw it for the first time when I was a kid and I was reading L.M. Montgomery's books.

_Państwo Smith_ (a more colloquial version: _Smithowie_, the Smiths) would be _Mr. and Mrs. Robert Smith._ I think this is where the above mentioned usage comes from.

I couldn't find any info on the phenomenon but i did find some examples:

Mrs Robert Harrison, née Helen Smith

Mrs. Thomas Smith


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## Thomas1

Thanks for your answer, Ryba. 

Translating Mrs Robert Smith as (Pani) Robertowa Smith is a new thing to me, I must admit as I've never chanced upon it, and it looks off to me, but I will be looking out for it reading Polish literature. 

As to the English version, it is used and it doesn't bother me at all, though it isn't someting you bump into on a daily basis.

Tom


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## ryba

Thomas1 said:


> Thanks for your answer, Ryba.
> 
> Translating Mrs Robert Smith as (Pani) Robertowa Smith is a new thing to me, I must admit as I've never chanced upon it, and it looks off to me, but I will be looking out for it reading Polish literature.



*English literature translated to Polish.*

Take care. 

A detail for KasiaS:

Other slavic (non Polish) surnames ending with the /ova/ sound are conjugated just like the Polish ones due to their ethimology and since they sound quite the same having the same function linguistically at the same time.

Widziałem (Accusativus / Biernik: kogo? co?) Vondráčkovą.
Widziałem (Accusativus / Biernik: kogo? co?) Kournikovą.

Pozdrawiam


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## ryba

elroy said:


> The ending -_ą_ is used to form the instrumental and to inflect adjectives modifying these nouns in the accusative.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Nominative _książka_
> Accusative _książkę_
> Instrumental _książką_
> Accusative with adjective _dobrą książkę_
> 
> The word _królowa_, then, appears to be an exception. Perhaps it's treated like an adjective because _-owa_ is a common adjective ending and you can think of it as _król + owa_.



Other examples of words constructed like that:

cesarzowa = empress
teściowa = mother-in-law
synowa = daughter-in-law

_Mam teściową_.,
_Pozdrów synową_.,
etc.


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## ryba

Thomas1 said:


> As to the English version, it is used and it doesn't bother me at all, though it isn't someting you bump into on a daily basis.


Oh, really?



Thomas1 said:


> Besides, isn't this _Mrs Robert Smith_, as put by you, simply the name of a woman?







Thomas1 said:


> Sometimes, you do use/hear however this sort of formulation when referring to someone's wife like Jarkowa, Markowa, etc., but, if I were to label it, to me this is rather *redolent of rural parlance*. The given example it just doesn't hold water...



(Pani) + HUSBAND'S NAME + (FAMILY NAME) + SURNAME doesn't sound rural in Polish. Not at all.

"Pani Adamowa z Romerów Chrapowiecka" sounds very old-fashioned, maybe even noble, of the gentry, doesn't it?

Omitting the SURNAME (and the family name, of course) does make it sound colloquial or/and humorous (i.e.: _Robert i Robertowa, Pani Kamilowa_, etc.) but I was NOT referring to that kind of usage.




Thomas1 said:


> Could you give some life examples of such usage please?



Yes, I've found one:


> Lucy Maud Montgomery "Dolina Tęczy"
> Spis rozdziałów: (...) Pani Aleksandrowa Davis składa wizytę. (...)
> link


Maybe I am familiar with it because when I was a young kid I read a couple of Montgomery's books.

Pozdrawiam.


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