# Are Americans "dumb"?



## cincinnasty

Hi. 

Do you find Americans "dumb"? I have heard that many people find us "rednecky". I would like to hear from people outside of the States.


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## buddingtranslator

Like all nations there are sections of people that are not so clever, and others that are extremely intelligent. There are those in the UK that consider Americans "dumb", (some visitors give us this impression) but I find that in general Americans are highly intelligent. As a nation which has put a man on the moon, established a long-lasting democracy, and continues to be the hegemony that it is we cannot consider Americans in general to be "dumb".


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## GenJen54

Hi cincinnasty,

I know I do not fall in the realm of those who live "outside of the States," but would like to make a few points based upon my experiences both in and outside the US.

I think instead of "dumb," many non-US citizens would find that generally speaking, most US citizens do not have the same type of education with regard to "worldly" knowledge and culture as do our friends from Europe, South America and Asia. 

That's not to say we are all like that, but it is a perceived generality that smacks of some truth. For example, how many of your friends or neighbors speak a foreign language? Or, two or three, for that matter. My guess is, your answer to that question would be "not many." In most European nations, it is quite common for students graduating from high school to know not only their native language, but also know English, plus a second or even third "foreign" language.

"A'mur-ka" - and our citizens - _generally_ tend to have an isolationist view of the world. We rarely bother to keep up with what is going on in our own back yard, much less bother to find out what is going on around the world - unless spoon-fed to us by McNews channels. Governmentally and culturally-speaking, we don't feel a need to learn about others. We just need ourselves. (Of course, our current Administration has done little to facilitate our being "neighborly" to our world partners). It might be a harsh reality to swallow, but it is a fact, and one that is not lost on friends from multiple cultures around the globe.

I have felt for a very long time that many people who are not US natives feel that we are naive when it comes to worldly matters. There is a certain arrogance that "Americans" carry with them that creates a great cultural divide. We also tend not to be as well-educated on "classic" subjects such as history and philosophy as people from other countries, in particular Europe.

These of course, are generalities.  Each individual is different and carries with him/her a different experience.

As for whether people from other countries find us "rednecky," I suppose that would depend upon where someone is from. Even fellow Americans may find other Americans more "rednecky" if they act and speak in a manner that is consistent with what is considered "redneck" behavior (not very educated, beer-swillin', NASCAR watchin' and Wal-Mart shoppin'.)*** On the contrary, "rednecks" may find folks from up north rather "uppity" or "snobby," as they would find people from California "spaced out" or "wacky."

One's understanding is only as good as one's personal experience. 
_
_In short, I doubt you'll get many folks here to agree that Americans are inately "dumb," just perhaps not as "cul-tu-fied" as our friends from other parts of the world.

* *DISCLAIMER*:  Being from a "redneck" state myself, I felt it okay to promote the stereotype.


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## pablopaul

As GenJen says, I agree with the fact that Americans are sometimes perceived as "dumb" because they have less interest or knowledge of things going on in other countries. As a frequent visitor of the US, for example, I have met several Americans who looked extremely shocked when I told them that, while in US it is summer in July, in my country (Argentina) it is winter.
Also, for example, while we consider that we are all Americans (since that is the name of the continent) yet we must deal with US people calling themselves Americans. Sort of monopolising our identity, right?
Another thing that has happened to me during conversations with some educated US persons is that they often believe that all South America is Brazil... "Ah... Argentina. That's in Brazil, right?". "Oh, Rio de Janeiro, great carnival there". And so on...
Finally, there is the US policy in Latin American countries from the 70's up to present. Except for the Clinton presidency, many US governments have dealed with the worst criminals in our countries (military governments, etc). And there is also envy... I guess many Latin American people feel envious or angry at the US for their power. But that exceeds this discussion...


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## tvdxer

I don't think Americans are dumb compared to Europeans, Latin Americans, or Asians. I do think, as a result of our size and self-absorbed nature that we tend to be ignorant of the world outside of our borders.

As for us calling ourselves "Americans", I have trouble finding a suitable replacement.  However, I refer to my nation as the "United States", not "America"...the latter I find inaccurate.


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## panjandrum

As a regular European tourist observing US tourists amongst all the rest, they have some caricature characteristics.
I have no idea why, but they speak more loudly than others.
They are much less inhibited about expressing their opinions - about everything.
Rather like the British, they assume that by speaking more slowly, and loudly, they can break through any language barrier.
They have expectations in terms of tourist accommodation that can't possibly be met by some really old and delightful European buildings.
They almost always arrive by the coach-load, wearing coloured name-stickers in case they forget who they are.
They find much in Europe that is completely outside their previous experience - and that includes what they see, what they eat, and how Europeans behave.

Put all of that together and it should be no surprise that they create a general impression of "dumb".

US tourists in Ireland, on the other hand, are a completely different set of people. They are unfailingly courteous, considerate, interested and keen to learn more about our country and culture. They mix with others and clearly enjoy the rich multi-national experience that is Irish Tourism.  They create a very much more positive impression than their compatriots in mainland Europe.

These are my superficial observations - and a superficial explanation for the difference is that US tourists in Ireland are more often travelling independently, not part of an organised package holiday.

_[I think that should be good enough to keep *Bord Fáilte* happy]_


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## Alunarada

i think many people in the World find americans very arrogant as nation, over all, as individuals that many of those who are arrogant are illiterate and bad-mannered as well.

i think it is a global wiew and as we all know, each individual is diferent to another.​


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## Mei

¿Por qué se meten tanto con los Americanos? Ya sabemos que en todas partes hay de todo... ¿y después qué? ¿por qué los catalanes somos tacaños? ¿por qué los españoles son... ? ¿por qué los franceses son así? ¿por qué los italinos son asá? Buff... 

Answering your question: I don't know... the Americans that I've met are not dumb at all.

Mei


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## Laia

Ah! los estereotipos...

Are Americans dumb? This is just an stereotype, nothing else.

As I said in another thread:

Stereotypes exist because they have a social function: they are useful for the positive differentiation of our group. We build our identity in part because of the groups we are in. We define our group (and ourselves) by (positive) differences with the others groups. It's identity stuff. It's an "us" vs. "you" thing. More or less.

Most of stereotypes are harmful for the group of people they are describing, but that's normal, because then when *we* compare *ourselves* to *them*, *we* are better than *they*.

If Americans (*they*) are "dumb" to *me*, I'm happy, because *my group* is not as dumb as *they* are. So my identity is that I'm part of a non-dumb group.

Anyway, not all stereotipes are wrong and unfavourables. Hay de todo. Para todos los colores.
I think it's an amazing topic.


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## SpiceMan

I think people are dumb everywhere, so my answer is yes .


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## irka_hcmc

we cant say a whole damn nation is dumb just because of its president or king or whatever you call the big head guy of the country. We cant generalize at all, it also gives you passion or anger when you generalize like that.  I think americans arent dumb at all, most of people in the world think they are because of their president! ALL the president in the world are also dumb or jerks.

Anyway i dont agree on that point i find that question kind of rude about americans.


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## Outsider

What a dumb question! 

Sorry, couldn't resist. 


O.K., a serious comment on something that GenJen wrote:



			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> "A'mur-ka" - and our citizens - _generally_ tend to have an isolationist view of the world. We rarely bother to keep up with what is going on in our own back yard, much less bother to find out what is going on around the world - unless spoon-fed to us by McNews channels. Governmentally and culturally-speaking, we don't feel a need to learn about others. We just need ourselves.


What strikes me is the total contrast between the American public's attitude towards the rest of the world, and the American government's attitude towards the rest of the world.

You say that Americans have an isolationist view of the world -- you don't need them for anything. That's kind of true, but your government has the opposite view -- anything but isolationist.

You say you barely keep up with what's going on in your back yard -- but your government and its intelligence agencies can know more about the outside world that we do, ourselves.

It's a curious, sometimes frustrating contradiction.


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## Carlston

As Laia said i think it is just an stereotype.


People also used to say that dumb people is happier than intelligent one.

and .....
I'm really happy !!!  


Please correct my English


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## SpiceMan

irka_hcmc said:
			
		

> we cant say a whole damn nation is dumb just because of its president or king or whatever you call the big head guy of the country.


 This just shows you think Bush is dumb. This topic is about the "average" american, perhaps?

I think Bush is _anything_ but dumb. In fact he's so smart that he makes detractors (and supporters!) think he's dumb. (And I'm not joking)


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## sonix

tvdxer said:
			
		

> I don't think Americans are dumb compared to Europeans, Latin Americans, or Asians. I do think, as a result of our size and self-absorbed nature that we tend to be ignorant of the world outside of our borders.
> 
> As for us calling ourselves "Americans", I have trouble finding a suitable replacement. However, I refer to my nation as the "United States", not "America"...the latter I find inaccurate.


 
I am glad to find `a US citizen´ who accepts the correct naming for Americans (people from the continent of America, including not only the North but also the Centre and the South). I don't find it difficult to say `US citizen´ or `North Americans´ as we call US people in Spain -"norteamericanos" -, though I must accept too that this is not completely correct either as Canadians and Mexicans are also "norteamericanos" and Spanish people don't have them in mind when they refer to "norteamericanos".


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## geve

It seems that IF we get the impression that Americans are dumb it often comes from the behaviour some tourists might have when travelling in foreign countries. But I think we wouldn’t get the same feeling if we were walking in the streets of a big city in USA… And we don’t get this impression when we meet US citizens that are travelling for business, or studies… So I’m wondering, is that mainly a “travelling” issue ? Does that come from the way people behave _as tourists_ ? 

But it’s also true that appart from the tourists we might meet in our countries, we have in mind that caricature of the average American guy, who would be pictured this way : uncultivated, overweight, enjoying beer, crisps, McDonald’s and baseball, and spending his spare time on his couch watching TV… 
This is how we’ll make fun of Americans, yes. But don’t Americans do the same ? The Budweiser “wassup” commercial seems pretty close to that picture ; or the Simpsons… 
I think we are perfectly aware that this does not reflect reality ; or that it reflects only a small portion of reality. 
Actually, we have our own batch of “dummies” in France, and you know what ? They very much look like the American ones !! (they prefer football though, and maybe they’ll alternate McDonald’s with cassoulet in tins)

So why does the world speak more about dumb Americans, than, say, dumb Peruvians ? (no offense to Peru, that was a random example...) For the same reason that famous people are more likely to appear in gossip newspapers : it's more fun, everybody (even our own dummies) can understand the topic, and it makes them look like they're not that different from us simple human beings... 


Now about the isolationist view of the world : I got struck by an anecdote when I read a book on USA’s “Bible Belt” by D.Kennedy : someone asked the author for his papers, and he handed his passport. The guy said, well, I’m afraid I can’t take this, don’t you have regular papers, a driving license ? 
This guy had never seen a passport before, he didn’t know what it looked like or that it could be an official proof for someone’s ID. The author then realizes that only a small percentage of USA citizens _(less than 25% - I can’t remember the exact figure)_ will set a foot outside the country in their whole life. Why should they know what a passport looks like, then ? 
Why should they learn a foreign language, too ? It’s true that in Europe, learning a foreign language is compulsory (and it’s sometimes compulsory to learn two). But Europeans are more likely to travel abroad (since “abroad” is closer...), and many jobs now require that you speak at least English…


Edit: it seems that a few "Americans" have slipped through, when I should have written "USA citizens"... sorry !


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## Carlston

geve said:
			
		

> It seems that IF we get the impression that Americans are dumb it often comes from the behaviour some tourists might have when travelling in foreign countries. But I think we wouldn’t get the same feeling if we were walking in the streets of a big city in USA… And we don’t get this impression when we meet US citizens that are travelling for business, or studies… So I’m wondering, is that mainly a “travelling” issue ? Does that come from the way people behave _as tourists_ ?
> 
> I'm not very sure about this theory because in Spain we only have 800.000 "USA citizens" (I saw in a TV report last week) tourists, however in spain many people thinks it.
> 
> But it’s also true that appart from the tourists we might meet in our countries, we have in mind that caricature of the average American guy, who would be pictured this way : uncultivated, overweight, enjoying beer, crisps, McDonald’s and baseball, and spending his spare time on his couch watching TV…
> This is how we’ll make fun of Americans, yes. But don’t Americans do the same ? The Budweiser “wassup” commercial seems pretty close to that picture ; or the Simpsons…
> I think we are perfectly aware that this does not reflect reality ; or that it reflects only a small portion of reality.
> 
> I think this is one of the main reasons.
> 
> 
> Edit: it seems that a few "Americans" have slipped through, when I should have written "USA citizens"... sorry !


 

Please correct my English


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## fenixpollo

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> "A'mur-ka" - and our citizens - _generally_ tend to have an isolationist view of the world.


 Ummm.... I thought it was spelt 'Merka.  That makes us 'Merkins, right? (that's a real word, guys -- look it up!) Or maybe I just can't spell good.


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## SweetMommaSue

Hello Cincinnasty!  Welcome to the forums. 

Topics of this nature seem to be quite popular here. It's amazing how we United Statesians p) are all so preoccupied with this issue. However, it does prove some points. Even I was brought up with the notion that Americans, in general, were not well-liked nor accepted by the rest of the world. 

When I was traveling about this world, I could always tell the American tourists. We do share some quirky characteristics, like what Panj said about talking loudly (funny how so many spoofs have been made on this point in our movies!). I have seen people slow down and talk loudly in order to make themselves better understood--but if the problem is a language barrier and not deafness. . . I have also found some of my fellow countrymen to be impatient--as in while in restaurants awaiting their orders. Their answer to their frustrations? Yell! Yell at the waiter and the chef and the manager and bring in the unexpecting, surprised, taken-off-guard, surrounding tables (sometimes) to gather support. It usually doesn't work. <sigh> If I make eye contact with these types, I generally try to go and talk with them and explain that in this particular country that we're _visiting, _the custom is to enjoy the atmosphere and the food/drink comes a little slower than in our fast-food-paced American world. We are accustomed to our "creature comforts," quite spoiled regarding them, in fact. I think that is what Panj was referring to in respect to "tourist accomodations" that can't possibly be met. I only found out a couple of years ago that there are people in the neighboring county who do not have running water in their homes! To most Americans (and me) that seems so archaic. All new homes being built around here now do have that as a minimum feature. . . to my knowledge.

I happen to agree with GenJen's observations (sounds like you're getting "cuchu-fied there, Gen). I've found a number of Americans who are just content living their daily lives in their own hometowns without ever venturing out. My husband told me of a man who'd never been out of the limits of his county. He had to go into the city (DC, in this case) and got lost for hours around the beltway (the big, multilane highway that encircles the city). He circled around and around till he had to get off for gas! Mind you--it takes a couple of hours to circle the entire beltway, and it takes only about an hour to get to the city and an hour to get back, maybe an hour and a half (or two) depending on how severe the traffic is. The problem was that the man could not remember his exit number, and couldn't drive by sight because he had never been anywhere except in his and the neighboring towns!

When I first moved to this area with my husband, he warned me that the people here were "different" because not only did they not know about other cultures, they didn't feel any necessity to have to learn about them. That has been changing significantly over the past few years as the number of immigrants has been growing by leaps and bounds! Our news media could help this situation as well if they would concern themselves with more news from around the world. Instead, we only hear of select stories about sensational news: the wars, the international tragedies, the celebrities. We need to hear more about other countries in general. That would help to open people's eyes. One cannot possibly get an accurate idea of what countries are like, and their inhabitants, if one only sees them in some type of distress!

But as individual people, as with any group, one is going to find those who do not fit the "mold".  The majority of the people that I hang out with happen to share my curiosity for world events and for the peoples of the world. We relish in the differences and take delight in our similarities! We all intend to bring our children up with some understanding of other cultures. I am always explaining to my children about different issues. I explain how we do various things one way and then other people have different traditions and ways of looking at situations. 

I remain optimistic that as time goes on, and more immigrants enter our country, that we will all come to understand each other better. Just as we  will learn from living side by side with our immigrant neighbors, I hope that other folks will also learn about us, as well. That's on one point. I also continue to hope that our curriculum in school will continue to improve so as to better educate our children on terms of understanding the different countries and their traditions and their current events, as well as their history.

Knowledge is power. To get knowledge, one must get educated--either via traditional schooling (hence the need for outstanding curricula) or via living experiences. One must also maintain an open mind, not be arrogant, or convinced that one is absolutely, infallibly correct. I am constantly learning new things here in the forums.

I started this thread because I was curious about how other countries educate their population. It is so interesting! Here is a step in tearing down walls of misunderstanding. The problems of discipline and deteriorating educations programs are not limited to the USA, but are shared by our international friends, as well. This shows us that point clearly! I just hope more inputs from more countries will follow!

Here's to everyone everywhere broadening their horizons with respect to learning about each other's nations and customs--and to this forum which promotes better understanding amongst all! 

SMS


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## *Cowgirl*

I don't think that Americans are "dumb" persay. I would definetly say we are quite quirky, very loud and self absorbed. We like everything to be just so. And in displaying these characteristics especially in other countries, we are often labeled as dumb, sometimes rightfully so.

Note: I also find nothing wrong with the "redneck" as most of the people I know are. And probably me too.


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## GenJen54

*Putting on my mod hat: *For those who wish to talk about cincinasty's original question _*about *_*Americans*, carry on!

For those who wish to discuss the linguistic differences of "America" and "Americans," please refer to any of the following threads HERE, HERE or even HERE and HERE.  Further posts regarding those differences will be deleted.

Thank you.


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## JazzByChas

I am also a "UnitedStatesian," but I am going to pipe up anway...I believe that the USA has gotten a little full of itself, especially since post-WWII.  We have gotten into the habit of thinking that we are the biggest, the "baddest" thing going.  And we do tend to be a bit myopic when it comes to seeing things the way people from the rest of the world do.  I agree with Geve that, as in Europe, learning more than one language should be compulsory here in America.  Too many people get lazy and think that American English is the only language we (and others in this world) need to speak.

The benefit of this forum, being an international entity, is that we can share the views and languages of people from all around the world, including their cultures.  This is why I love (and am addicted to ) this forum!  So, if we UnitedStatesIans want to change our "dumb" image, we need to stop being so jingoistic, and develop a better world view.  I realize this does not apply to all " 'Murkins" but as a whole, our nation has tended to function like this.

Just my .02 Euros ()


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## geve

JazzByChas said:
			
		

> I agree with Geve that, as in Europe, learning more than one language should be compulsory here in America.


You're putting words in my mouth here...  I only said that there were some reasons why it was less common for USA citizens to learn a foreign language


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## JazzByChas

Yes...you are right, geve...I guess I was expressing my personal opinion.. 

Sorry 'bout that!



			
				geve said:
			
		

> You're putting words in my mouth here...  I only said that there were some reasons why it was less common for USA citizens to learn a foreign language


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## BasedowLives

Americans are by no means dumb.  But ignorant to the issues of other countries?  Many are.

I am constantly surprised with how many mathematical geniuses and economic whizzes i go to school with, yet don't know much about foreign situations or cultures (econ people do, but sometimes lack the culture aspect).  It's a matter of where their interests are vested I suppose.


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## Roi Marphille

Well,
Having George W.Bush as president doesn't help much, does it?  

yes, some are dumb and some are not. I don't know the odds, it's impossible to know. I don't care really. 

Anyway, some Europeans think that the fact of being European make us smarter and it is not true. What I see is that anti-Americanism is very spread in Europe and in other countries. If you take ONLY the bad things of one country and skip the others, you will probably have a wrong opinion, quite poisoned. 

My theory:
Capitalism in USA is the most advanced in the world, I suppose all agree here. In my opinion, aggressive capitalism makes people think less and less because they don't need to do it that much. I think many Americans have reached a total hypnosis-status which is magisterially directed by certain media, Government, advertisements-Companies...etc. 
This scenario is a normal stage in aggressive capitalism. As USA is more advanced in this area, they have reached this before other countries. I guess it is *that* which may give the idea that they are dumber.

Michael Moore is also helping people to believe that Americans are _stupid_. 

And yes, Panj, I also reckon that they usually speak louder, why? don't know. But that doesn't make'em dumb (I don't say you said that), at least that make them more...let's say... noticeable?  


peace, love and understanding
Roi


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## Javier-Vega

To be honest, I have to say that talking to many europeans (even a lot of people with a university preparation) have shoked me for the magnitude of their ignorance about Mexico or Latin America (for example, for them, Mexico is in the southern hemisphere, is just like Spain with no important indigenous cultural contribution, its government is controlled by the Catholic Church, and a long list of other amazing misconceptions).

But I think all of it is, unfortunately, a product of a herarchy of nations.

The US people know mostly only about themselves.
The europeans know only about Europe and the US.
The latin americans know only about Europe, the US and ourselves (Latin America), but not a damn thing about Asia or Africa. 
And so on.
(that is, people know about the cultures that have a strong influence -cultural, economical, political -- on themselves).

This is probably natural. But it has the terrible consequence that powerful countries has a lot of political and economical influence on the business of other people about whom they don´t know anything.


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## fenixpollo

Javier-Vega said:
			
		

> The US people know mostly only about themselves.
> The europeans know only about Europe and the US.
> The latin americans know only about Europe, the US and ourselves  (Latin America), but not a damn thing about Asia or Africa.
> And so on.
> (that is, people know about the cultures that have a strong influence -cultural, economical, political -- on themselves).
> 
> This is probably natural. But it has the terrible consequence that powerful countries has a lot of political and economical influence on the business of other people about whom they don´t know anything.


 I agree with you, Javier, although I think you give too much credit to Latin Americans... they stereotype, generalize and are just as ignorant about other places outside their own front doors as everyone else in the world.

Americans are just better at _displaying_ their ignorance.


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## cirrus

Clearly this isn't a question that can be answered with a simple yes or no. The size of the place, quite apart from its diversity and complexity not to mention its undoubted importance means that generalisations don't add up to anything of substance. 

One of the things that is so different is how much more higher profile issues around religion have there. Having travelled in the south I was amazed both at the number of churches and the numbers attending them. 

With the debate around teaching Darwin in schools I end up speculating whether we would we be at all surprised to see media coverage around future debates like how many angels can fit on a pin head being seriously discussed and possibly dragged into court?

I think it is this dissonance that really highlights a really key difference.  Dumb isn't the word, it's far too difficult to decipher.


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## Roi Marphille

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Americans are just better at _displaying_ their ignorance.


good point!


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## cuchuflete

Let me note in passing that when I've travelled in Europe and in Spanish and Portuguese speaking America, I find the better educated people less "dumb" then many of their U.S. counterparts.

That said, the farmers I've met in Italy and Spain and France,
the mechanics in Argentina and Brasil, the street vendors in
Venezuela and Ecuador....all seem about as cosmopolitan and well-informed as their U.S. counterparts.  

Are there lots of 'dumb' people in the U.S.?  Without a doubt.
Do other countries have their fair share of dummies? Same answer.  

Put a busload of store clerks from Besançon or Badajoz in
the middle of Omaha, and the effect will be similar to the reports we have read here of many U.S. tourists.
Nice people, of average intelligence for the most part, and a little clueless about the unfamiliar surroundings and customs.

Now substitue students from the university of Salamanca, and their counterparts from Michigan State U (I'm not picking on Michiganders, it's just an example), and you are apt to find the Spaniards less 'dumb'.


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## Fernando

I can not believe the title of this thread. For some reason, we (the rest of the world) feel the right to call the Americans (I dislike the word, but I am speaking in English) "dumb". Can you imagine the following threads:

Are Spaniards dumb?
Are French dumb?
Are Europeans dumb?
Are Africans dumb?
Are Latin Americans dumb?

For sure, we would bear a bunch of post saying "This is outrageous". "Close  this thread inmediately". For some reason US people (or at least the patient, god-humoured US forum members) do not dislike to answer the thread. So, maybe they are not so dumb and deserve some credit.

I agree that the knowledge of the Americans I know (basically, in TV) about the rest of the world is very low, by any standard. What is very dangerous considering they are the only country which is world-concerned.

Anyway, why a person from Belgium (10 m people) should expect an American to place Belgium in a map when he probably seems no shame in its inability to place California, Philapelphia or Texas?


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## Roi Marphille

Chat: 
Fernando, I'm with you here aka "_te secundo_". I like your style man!


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## nichec

geve said:
			
		

> So why does the world speak more about dumb Americans, than, say, dumb Peruvians ? (no offense to Peru, that was a random example...) For the same reason that famous people are more likely to appear in gossip newspapers : it's more fun, everybody (even our own dummies) can understand the topic, and it makes them look like they're not that different from us simple human beings...


great great point

I travelled from Paris to US not long ago. I was supposed to change to a smaller plane in DC, but the plane was cancelled and I decided to share a limo with three other USA citizens since we were heading the same way. The four of us total strangers had a great time talking in the limo for two hours and we somehow realized that, including the driver, we have a total knowledge of around ten languages in that car. (and one PHD, one PHD in waiting, one MA, one BA) They are very intelligent people, the random ones you bump into in an airport.

I totally agree with the facts that are montioned about the tourists from USA, and yes, their life style is quite different from the Europeans', by which I mean they probably don't read as much in general, and they don't travel as much in general either. But I don't think that makes them "dumber". As geve well said, you can find dumb people in France, or Taiwan, or anywhere in the world as well.

As a matter of fact, I find them very friendly and charming (regarding the fact that they talk louder and more, they tend to help each other...etc), and above all, not dumb at all.


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## GenJen54

Fernando said:
			
		

> For sure, we would bear a bunch of post saying "This is outrageous". "Close this thread inmediately". For some reason US people (or at least the patient, god-humoured US forum members) do not dislike to answer the thread. So, maybe they are not so dumb and deserve some credit.


 
I think the fact that cinncinasty (our young thread starter) is an American "lessened the blow" as it were. I took her question as a point of curiosity. She has an understanding that "non-Americans" believe that "Americans" are dumb, and wanted confirmation or opposition to that assertion.

Given that there is already a great deal of "Anti-American" sentiment in many of the threads here does at least, Fernando, confirm your idea that we are patient, in the least.


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## opsidol

Lo que más me molesta es que las turistas americanas esperan que yo entienda inglés. No saben ninguna palabra del idioma del país y aún preguntan si puedo hablar inglés EN INGLÉS!!!
Muhcas veces estas turistas se han acercado a mi y, aunque inglés es mi idioma nativo, he fingido no poder entender para que se darían cuenta de que no son santos y de que los lugareños no tienen que hacer nada para ayudarlas o acomodarlas si ellas no estén preparadas para aprender como decir "hola"....


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## Outsider

opsidol said:
			
		

> Lo que más me molesta es que las turistas americanas esperan que yo entienda inglés. No saben ninguna palabra del idioma del país y aún preguntan si puedo hablar inglés EN INGLÉS!!!


Muchas veces los turistas de todas las nacionalidades hacen eso. Aunque no hable inglés, la mayoría de la gente entiende "Do you speak English?"...
Pienso que no se puede censurarlos. Pues, se sí sólo hablan inglés, ¿en qué otra lengua podrían preguntar?


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## opsidol

Podrían mirar en sus guías que siempre llevan consigo.

Sí que son algunas turistas americanas que no pertenecen al esterotipo, pero toda mi vida nadie ha tratado de hablar conmigo así en cualquier idioma aparte de inglés. Gente de otras nacionalidades siempre parace saber por lo menos algunas frases básicas.


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## cuchuflete

Opsidol may be confusing bad manners, which properly annoy him, with 'dumbness'.  They are distinct characteristics.

My experience in airports, and Opsidol's asseverations, are different.  I've often been approached by people who ask, in their own language, whether I speak Italian, French, Spanish and other languages.  I assume they don't know English, or are too shy about mispronouncing it, so I just do what I can to be helpful.  I don't detect anything 'dumb' in any of this.


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## Chaska Ñawi

The Americans I've met have been amost unfailingly a delightful lot.  They fall (or fell) into the following categories:

fellow university students
fellow travellers   
neighbours (a lot have cottages around here)
people I met travelling round the northeast and southwest of the U.S.
yachties (members of the sailing community) I met in the Pacific

They were well-read, well-informed, entertaining, and extremely generous.  I am richer for having met them.

So who's this shadow population out there fulfilling the American stereotypes?   Who was putting down Kerry for speaking French?  Who wants to legislate the teaching of creationism?  I've never met any of these people...


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## opsidol

Están allí no sé donde. La mitad de la población que votó por Bush.

He conocido muchos Americanos también y peudo decir que todos no son malos, sino muy simpáticos y amables. Pero también la mayor parte de los americanos que conozco son más advertureros, es decir, estudiantes universitaros de intercambio. Creo que ellos no representan la población general. No sé como es la gente que vive en EEUU.


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## Herenia

casi todos los paises tienen calificativos...
por ejemplo a los mexicanos: flojos, frijoleros
a los españoles/gallegos (no sé) : tontos, cochinos
a los argentinos (en esta si estoy de acuerdo, jjejeje): altaneros y no se que tantas cosas más...


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## cincinnasty

Why I started this thread was due in part of a television show I watched. It was titled "How Dumb Are Americans?" It examined how Americans compare to other countries. It showed Americans are lacking.

This thread was not meant to offend anyone. But I should have known I was opening a can of worms.


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## GenJen54

cincinnasty said:
			
		

> This thread was not meant to offend anyone. But I should have known I was opening a can of worms.


Hi cincinnasty,

Honestly, I don't think you _did_ offend anyone, and as far as worms, well, we tend to like those around here, for the most part. Only when people start making personal attacks against others do we make any attempt to rassle the worms back into their cans. 

Your question is quite mild in comparison with some others that have been opened, and has granted an interesting opportunity to discuss an interesting subject. And as you can tell, we're certainly not short on opinions. 

I believe you'll find that many of us here are not only pretty thick skinned, but also very quick to point out our own faults, with a quick laugh and a wink of an eye. 





> Why I started this thread was due in part of a television show I watched. It was titled "How Dumb Are Americans?" It examined how Americans compare to other countries. It showed Americans are lacking.


I've not seen that particular show in question, but have heard about it, and similar studies that have been conducted comparing the US, and US education, to that in other countries. While we tend to fall behind in some areas, in other areas, we're quite ahead. 

By the way, Welcome to the Forums! We're glad you're here!


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## perrodelmal

*Cowgirl* said:
			
		

> I don't think that Americans are "dumb" *persay*.



Does that answer your question? LOL

Sorry, couldn't help it.


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## judkinsc

"per se" is a standard phrase...especially frequent in the oral.  It sounds the same if you spell it differently.


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## Piku

What I've heard is that educational level in USA is lower than that in other places. A friend of my sister lived there for two years, he was a mediocre student in Argentina and ended to be an A student in USA; he claimed that all the subjects were way easier there. Also my girlfriend, who is an exchange student finds school much easier there, she always complains of that, for example arguing that the math homework is like "1+1=" and the rest of the students complain of the hard work. This is more understandable since she's Chinese, and you know how is education in China! But I saw it, and yes it's something we study in earlier years of highschool too. 
I don't mean Americans are dumb or anything, just think this might be relevant in this thread.

.


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## Brioche

I don't know whether dumb is the right word.
Americans tend to be *extremely* parochial.
They know about their own city/town/county.
They have some idea about the next state, but beyond that, it's all a blur.

According to the National Geographic magazine, they put *New Mexico - USA* on the licences plates in New Mexico because the New Mexicans were tired of being thought foreigners when they drove out of state. Other Americans did not even know that NM was a state - (NM joined the Union in 1912 as the 47th state).

There was another article about the state of Delaware, which mentioned that many Americans do not know that Delaware is a state. Hell, it was not only one of the original 13, it was the first State to ratify the Constitution. (7 December 1787)

So if USA-ers know diddly-squat about the US, how much do you think they know about the rest of the world?


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## cuchuflete

To prove Brioche's point, when I moved here three years ago, (sorry, _here_ is the state called Maine, extreme northeast of the U.S.) someone asked if I'd been to China. I said I hadn't been anywhere in Asia yet. He gave me an odd look. It turns out that China is a very small town not far from where I live.
So much for foreshortened perspective.


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## opsidol

Supongo que la sigiente pregunta sería: por qué es así? Por qué America no tiene un sistema de educación mejor? Tienen bastantes recursos, eso es cierto.


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## SpiceMan

Once I was watching an american TV show where they asked new yorkers to locate new york in a map of US, and several couldn't. The show tried to point out that people from New York were rather narcissist living their own lives without even thinking about where were they living. I thought that it just showed ignorance. Then again, I would be afraid to do such a test in my own city. It'd probably yield similar results.


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## jinti

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Once I was watching an american TV show where they asked new yorkers to locate new york in a map of US, and several couldn't. The show tried to point out that people from New York were rather narcissist living their own lives without even thinking about where were they living. I thought that it just showed ignorance. Then again, I would be afraid to do such a test in my own city. It'd probably yield similar results.


 
I used to teach English to adult immigrants here in New York City.  Once when I was teaching a group of Chinese-speakers, I wanted to use a map of the US in class.  I though I'd get the students to find a few landmarks on the map to orient themselves before my planned activity, so I asked them to come up and point to New York City.  I was surprised when one by one, several of them came up and pointed to the center of the United States.  Nobody disagreed with them, either.  I pointed out that we have beaches here and they were pointing to a place about 1500 miles/2500 km from any ocean, but it didn't seem to make a difference....  

I found out later that this was a common response -- many, many of my students (not just from China) over the years made the same error or wouldn't even hazard a guess.  Some of them asked me why they _should_ know where it is (meaning why was I spending class time on such inconsequential things instead of on the present perfect).  My first reaction was surprise that they wouldn't want to know, but they did have a point -- they knew how to get here, and now that they're here, they know how to get to work, the markets, the laundromat, their kids' school, and class.  Some of them considered that sufficient.  And some Americans consider it sufficient, as well.


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## SpiceMan

Yes, of course. My mom (brazilian) told me that she once thought "I'm in São Paulo, which is in Brazil, which is in..." when she was 18 y/o and that she couldn't help to find herself stupid for having some kind of vague idea of "world" but not being that sure about it and beyond it. Others could just think that there's no point in knowing further. (As an astronomist could think we're stupid because we don't know exactly where in known space are we located because we don't care).

I'd feel dumb, and I think people who don't know also is. But doesn't make them less correct in the end I guess.


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## gorbatzjov

May I suggest something? Were does this idea that Americans could be dumb come from? Maybe it may be because of the fact that you never ever see more warning signs. "Please remove windshield before driving", "caution wet floor", "Vehiculs appear closer than they really are" or think about all the sounds you hear when you open a door in an American car...


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## SpiceMan

Good point! Although it probably is because of legal concerns, you can't help but feel that they kinda need to be directed all the time at first.


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## Chaska Ñawi

This reminds me of a hysterically funny (if you're inclined toward black humour) set of awards given out annually in the States:  the Darwins.  These are awarded to those who remove themselves from the gene pool permanently.

Most of the winners are Americans.  One was gentleman who fired his pistol into the head of the person he was holding up.  When the pistol didn't go off, he looked down the barrel and pulled the trigger again.... and killed himself.  Another winner was a Canadian lawyer, who decided to demonstrate the strength of a plate glass office window by launching himself at it.  The glass wasn't quite as strong as he'd expected.  Unfortunately, he was on the umpteenth floor of a skyscraper at the time...


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## castilon

Before I leave this subject, I would just like to share personal experiences and opinions:

Regarding education, I believe junior and high school education in the US is of a much lower level, in general, than in South America. However, I believe university level is much better in the USA. 

Regarding any group of people being dumb or not, it is far too unfair to generalize. But it comes to my mind that if any group of people, spend too much time in front of the TV, they will be limited with information and knowledge. Also, the time we now spend in front of a computer, will be conformed by the way in which we are able to manage this new communication tool that we have in our hands, as the possibilities are inmense.


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## BasedowLives

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Good point! Although it probably is because of legal concerns, you can't help but feel that they kinda need to be directed all the time at first.



you were right with the first part.  people sue mcdonalds because they got fat, or because the coffee was hot.  these people are just lazy motherf*ckers who are trying to take advantage of the legal system.

those things have to be there to prevent occupying the courts with trivial crap like that.



> Also my girlfriend, who is an exchange student finds school much easier there, she always complains of that, for example arguing that the math homework is like "1+1=" and the rest of the students complain of the hard work.



So, what math class was she taking?  There isn't only one math class for the entire school.  Especially if she's in a university.  My roomate's taking Thermodynamics and Numerical Analysis and Circuits classes.  Not easy by a long shot...If she wanted a harder class she should've opted for at least calculus, as i'm positive it's not 1+1=.


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## Pamela fluente

I think in general americans, more than dumb, are quite ignorant.

They also have several other characteristics which have high correlation with ignorance, such as arrogance.

They make money on silly stereotypes such as Italians "mafiosi" and lazy. While history proves clearly that almost all the best mind and artists of the planet where born in Europe, and not a small number in Italy ...


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## cuchuflete

I may not be dumb or arrogant enough to dismiss Asians, Africans, Americans, Indians and other non-Europeans from the list of "almost all the best mind and artists of the planet".


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## mamita linda

Hello, after having operated a family owned business in Virginia City, NV, which is the tourist epicenter of the "Old West" I can definitely say yes to your question...  "Does that come from the way people behave _as tourists_ ?"  Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes!!!  We used to say that people went on vacation & left their brains at home.  Just for laughs let me give you some of my favorite tourist questions that were asked repeatedly on a daily basis:  1)  Do people really live here?    2)  What do you do with the town in the winter?  3)  What does the V on the mountain stand for? and my all time favorite...  4)  What's in your cemetary?  If US born citizens behave this way in other countries I don't blame them for thinking we're dumb.  But I'd like to think we're only dumb on vacation!


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## blancalaw

Pamela fluente said:
			
		

> I think in general americans, more than dumb, are quite ignorant.
> 
> They also have several other characteristics which have high correlation with ignorance, such as arrogance.
> 
> They make money on silly stereotypes such as Italians "mafiosi" and lazy. While history proves clearly that almost all the best mind and artists of the planet where born in Europe, and not a small number in Italy ...




I think ignorant is a good word to describe Americans. Being one myself I often see people not realizing there are more in the world than what is between Canada, Mexico, and the two Oceans. I think much is from what they have been taught in their upbringings. However there are a lot of culturally aware individuals in my lovely country (USA) so to say every American is ignorant or dumb is incorrect.

It is also true that in every country there are people that believe crazy things or think a certain way different than what we think. It is easy to call someone dumb just because they do something different than we do it, but it is not because they are dumb, but hold different values.


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## Outsider

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> This reminds me of a hysterically funny (if you're inclined toward black humour) set of awards given out annually in the States:  the Darwins.  These are awarded to those who remove themselves from the gene pool permanently.
> 
> Most of the winners are Americans.  One was gentleman who fired his pistol into the head of the person he was holding up.  When the pistol didn't go off, he looked down the barrel and pulled the trigger again.... and killed himself.  Another winner was a Canadian lawyer, who decided to demonstrate the strength of a plate glass office window by launching himself at it.  The glass wasn't quite as strong as he'd expected.  Unfortunately, he was on the umpteenth floor of a skyscraper at the time...


Well, most Oscar winners are also Americans. I think that tells us more about how well informed the juri of the award is about the world, than about how smart Americans are, compared to other people.


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## irka_hcmc

> I think Bush is _anything_ but dumb. In fact he's so smart that he makes detractors (and supporters!) think he's dumb. (And I'm not joking)


 
Sorry to have noticed just now but i think you are right, and thats what makes the world feel terrible. This man has political contactcs, foreign allies with oil and all. The guy is untouchable thats all simple! If you tell me he is smart i would answer yes because he is a president( its not open for everybody ). But with a human eye i would say he is everything but smart.


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## Brioche

Outsider said:
			
		

> Well, most Oscar winners are also Americans. I think that tells us more about how well informed the juri of the award is about the world, than about how smart Americans are, compared to other people.


 
Of course most Oscar winners are _American!_
Oscars are awarded by _Americans_ who live in _America_ to actors who perform in _American_ films.

Only films which have been shown in Los Angeles County, California, US of _America_ qualify.

Yeah, and the SuperBowl is always won by an _American_ football team, and The World (sic) Series is always won by an _American_ baseball team.


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## Outsider

I'm glad you understood my point.


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## judkinsc

Outsider said:
			
		

> I'm glad you understood my point.


 
Upon rereading it again, several times, and upon your point here, it appears you meant the Darwin-award commitee, not the Oscar commitee. That was not clear, before.


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## Outsider

Well, considering that my post was a reply to this one (which I quoted in full)...


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## ampurdan

Fernando said:
			
		

> I can not believe the title of this thread. For some reason, we (the rest of the world) feel the right to call the Americans (I dislike the word, but I am speaking in English) "dumb". Can you imagine the following threads:
> 
> Are Spaniards dumb?
> Are French dumb?
> Are Europeans dumb?
> Are Africans dumb?
> Are Latin Americans dumb?
> 
> For sure, we would bear a bunch of post saying "This is outrageous". "Close this thread inmediately". For some reason US people (or at least the patient, god-humoured US forum members) do not dislike to answer the thread. So, maybe they are not so dumb and deserve some credit


 
For one time I fully agree with you.

Maybe US educational system is not that good and this implies some deficiencies that are not observed elsewhere, but this does not make Americans dumb.

A different issue is the degree of implication of Americans in World affairs and other countries problems...


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## Mei

What about the rest of the countries? Are all perfect?  

Mei


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## JazzByChas

Mei said:
			
		

> What about the rest of the countries? Are all perfect?
> 
> Mei


 
In one word..."NO"

Ever country has its flaws...people are people around the world...Americans have been a "superpower" for a long time (after WWII), and may have been a bit arrogant about it, but basically, I believe we have "chilled" a bit, and in the end, we are the same as people in the rest of the world...."people." Shocker, isn't it?


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## BasedowLives

> Originally Posted by *Fernando*
> _I can not believe the title of this thread. For some reason, we (the rest of the world) feel the right to call the Americans (I dislike the word, but I am speaking in English) "dumb". Can you imagine the following threads:
> 
> Are Spaniards dumb?
> Are French dumb?
> Are Europeans dumb?
> Are Africans dumb?
> Are Latin Americans dumb?
> 
> For sure, we would bear a bunch of post saying "This is outrageous". "Close this thread inmediately". For some reason US people (or at least the patient, god-humoured US forum members) do not dislike to answer the thread. So, maybe they are not so dumb and deserve some credit_


_

I can't believe i missed this post!  I was thinking the very same thing when i first saw it, except in my version in my head it was following the stereotypes, so i'd eqate this thread to the following:

Are mexicans lazy?
Are french effiminate?
etc.

i mean, it sounds really bad.  but i assume coming from a citizen of the respective country it wouldn't be as abrasive.
_


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## kalina

hey I live in the US and I think Americans - as we call ourselves - can be pretty dumb...but so can most people... 
There are for sure a lot of really dumb drivers in Southern California. 
But dumb intellectually? That really just depends.


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