# нафига попу гармонь



## morzh

*Split from this discussion.*



William Stein said:


> Okay, thanks a lot everybody. They could  really have just said: The JV's income will come from operations and  loans", but then they wouldn't have had the refined pleasure of tortuing  the translator.



Some people are that way.

There is a known joke about it:

A scientific title says: "Влияние духовых инструментов на духовную жизнь духовенства" (there is a pun in it too).
Translated into real Russian it becomes "Нафига   попу гармонь". (a proverb, the meaning is immaterial).

In English: "Wind instruments' influence upon spiritual life of the clergy" - "Why the heck a priest needs a harmonica".

This is the same case.

There is also the name for it. It is called "Наукообразие".


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> Some people are that way.
> 
> There is a known joke about it:
> 
> A scientific title says: "Влияние духовых инструментов на духовную жизнь духовенства" (there is a pun in it too).
> Translated into real Russian it becomes "Нафига попу гармонь". (a proverb, the meaning is immaterial).
> 
> In English: "Wind instruments' influence upon spiritual life of the clergy" - "Why the heck a priest needs a harmonica".
> 
> This is the same case.
> 
> There is also the name for it. It is called "Наукообразие".


 
I tried to search for the meaning of "Нафига попу гармонь" (which I still don't understand) and I found this:
Слабо выраженная актуальность применения клавишных инструментов в среде лиц духовного звания.
(нафига попу гармонь)

Weakly expressed actuality of the use of keyboard instruments among clergy members?
I guess the idea is that it is totally meaningless. Does нафига попу гармонь mean anything?


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## morzh

William Stein said:


> I tried to search for the meaning of "Нафига попу гармонь" (which I still don't understand) and I found this:
> Слабо выраженная актуальность применения клавишных инструментов в среде лиц духовного звания.
> (нафига попу гармонь)
> 
> Weakly expressed actuality of the use of keyboard instruments among clergy members?
> I guess the idea is that it is totally meaningless. Does нафига попу гармонь mean anything?



http://bravedefender.ru/post140519260/
You'll love this one then.

As for the meaning - it means "something useless".


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> http://bravedefender.ru/post140519260/
> You'll love this one then.
> 
> As for the meaning - it means "something useless".


 
Those are funny. What was the pun in  Влияние духовых инструментов на духовную жизнь духовенства духовых инструментов?


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## Ben Jamin

morzh said:


> http://bravedefender.ru/post140519260/
> You'll love this one then.
> 
> As for the meaning - it means "something useless".


 I understand "попу гармонь", and I guess that "Нафига" is an euphemism that means something like: "На ху..", am I right?
By the way, is 'гармонь' rather an accordeon than a harmonica?


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## Maroseika

Ben Jamin said:


> is 'гармонь' rather an accordeon than a harmonica?


Гармонь is a kind of accordeon. There is some difference in the fingerboards.


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## Deem-A

Ben Jamin said:


> "Нафига" is an euphemism that means something like: "На ху..", am I right?



Нафига means Зачем  and there are also other words in this ''area'',that I woudn't advise anyone to use .


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## William Stein

Ben Jamin said:


> I understand "попу гармонь", and I guess that "Нафига" is an euphemism that means something like: "На ху..", am I right?
> By the way, is 'гармонь' rather an accordeon than a harmonica?


 
I don't understand "I understand "попу гармонь". 

Why ??? accordeon in your rear end?


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## morzh

Guys

I only gave that proverb to comment on the writing style of those who created the contract.

It's becoming a separate discussion now.


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> Guys
> 
> I only gave that proverb to comment on the writing style of those who created the contract.
> 
> It's becoming a separate discussion now.


 
Yeah, you created a monster. The only way to put a stop to it now is to translate it!

I think I finally got it: Why do you need to put an accordeon down there when you can already play it like a wind instrument!


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## morzh

My bad.

Just to put the lid on it.

Example:

1)
- Говорят, корейцы Ижевский автозавод хотят купить.
- Да, нафига попу гармонь. Им, что - больше денег девать некуда?

- It is rumored, Koreans want to buy Izhevsk automotive plant.
- They need it like a hole in the head. Why, can't they think of a better investment?

2) 
- Слушай, не заберешь у меня центнер гвоздей? Мне лишние завезли. Отдам дешево.
- Зачем попу гармонь....своих девать некуда. Не, извини, не надо.

- Hey, would you buy couple hundred pounds of nails off me? I have some extra. I'll give you a discount.
- Don't need'em. I don't know what to do with those I already have. Sorry, no can do.


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## cyanista

*Mod note*

I thought the discussion could live on and grow in a thread of its own, so I split it off and cross-referenced. 

cyanista


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## morzh

Or like this:

- У тебя высшее образование есть?
- Не-a.
- А получать собираешься?
- Нахрена попу гармонь? Меня и так держат.

- Do you have a college degree?
- Nope.
- Are you planning to get it?
- Like I need it....where I am, they like me without any degree.


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## Awwal12

William Stein said:


> I don't understand "I understand "попу гармонь".
> 
> Why ??? accordeon in your rear end?


Not п*о*пу, but поп*у* (dative singular from n. "поп" - "a priest", lowered colloquial).


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## morzh

"поп" and "pope" are related.


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## William Stein

Oh well, I liked my version better, but thanks for explaining!


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## morzh

1)BTW, if i/o "поп" it was what you thought it was, it would be then "п'опе", not "поп'у".

"П'опа" (butt, tush) is feminine, so the dative is "П'опе".
But dative from "поп" - "поп'у".

2) There are similar sayings, like "Нафига козе баян" (a goat does not need an accordion). Or "Как зайцу стоп-сигнал" (like the rabbit need a braking light).
Or, politically incorrect: "Нафига чукче холодильник?" (why does a Chukchi need a fridge?)


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## Mandarinka

Or "как мертвому припарки" (не могу перевести)


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> 1)BTW, if i/o "поп" it was what you thought it was, it would be then "п'опе", not "поп'у".
> 
> "П'опа" (butt, tush) is feminine, so the dative is "П'опе".
> But dative from "поп" - "поп'у".


 

Not if there's motion involved, but enough said (or perhaps too much!)


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## morzh

Mandarinka said:


> Or "как мертвому припарки" (не могу перевести)



Literally

Like a heating pad for a stiff.

However the meaning of this is a bot different: "Мёртвому припарки" usually used where the effectiveness of sometfhing is in question, not just the need in it.

Like this:

- Моя стереосистема сдохла.
- Ты предохранитель менять пробовал?
- Мёртвому припарки - там силовой трансформатор сгорел.

- My stereo's just croaked.
- Have you tried to change the fuse yet?
- No use; the power transformer's shot.

--

So it is a narrower meaning of "of no use" vs "no need for it". (=* бесполезно*")


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## estreets

Как рыбке зонтик (as much as fish needs an umbrella).
Как собаке пятая нога (a fifth leg for a dog).


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## morzh

Well there's that British saying

"As useful as a chocolate teapot".

There's a southern one:

"Like socks on a rooster".

There's also this one:

"Useful as a string condom".


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## morzh

estreets said:


> Как рыбке зонтик (as much as fish needs an umbrella).
> Как собаке пятая нога (a fifth leg for a dog).




Как телеге - пятое колесо.


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## Saluton

The correct spelling is на фига, на хрена, на черта etc.
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&bts=x&zar=x&ab=x&sin=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0+%F4%E8%E3%E0
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=...n=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0%F5%F0%E5%ED%E0

На фига козе баян is another option.


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## William Stein

Saluton said:


> The correct spelling is на фига, на хрена, на черта etc.
> http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&bts=x&zar=x&ab=x&sin=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0+%F4%E8%E3%E0
> http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=...n=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0%F5%F0%E5%ED%E0
> 
> На фига козе баян is another option.


 
Thanks. By the way, I found a fantastic article callled "Russian Cursing for Beginners" when I looked  up фига (http://www.russiancursing.com/), but you probably know all that &$%# stuff already.


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## Ben Jamin

Saluton said:


> The correct spelling is на фига, на хрена, на черта etc.
> http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&bts=x&zar=x&ab=x&sin=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0+%F4%E8%E3%E0
> http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=...n=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%ED%E0%F5%F0%E5%ED%E0
> 
> На фига козе баян is another option.


 
None of the Russian native speakers has touched the subject, but I'm still curious: Is 'на фига' a euphemism for an obscenity, or is it obscene itself?


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## morzh

Ben Jamin said:


> None of the Russian native speakers has touched the subject, but I'm still curious: Is 'на фига' a euphemism for an obscenity, or is it obscene itself?



It is a euphemism. But it is not really an obscenity. But it is considered to be half-way vulgar. You wouldn't tell that to your parent. But it is normal in conversation with a colleague.

Same as "what the hell" vs. "what the f....k". It is still not suitable for everybody, but not as rude.
"Heck" is better.


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## William Stein

Ben Jamin said:


> None of the Russian native speakers has touched the subject, but I'm still curious: Is 'на фига' a euphemism for an obscenity, or is it obscene itself?


 
Look at the link I gave above, here's a quote from it:

 Generally speaking, “fig” and “hui” are indeed completely interchangeable, while substitutions of “her” and “hren” in any particular expression are heard more or less frequently.  Фиг is used very commonly as a way to “make one’s feelings known” in polite society or in semi-formal situations, particularly by women, or by gentlemen whenever women are present.  Apart from referring to the male member, it can stand in, synecdochically, for a man himself, usually in the sense of “some guy,” “some f**ker


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## Ben Jamin

William Stein said:


> Thanks. By the way, I found a fantastic article callled "Russian Cursing for Beginners" when I looked up фига (http://www.russiancursing.com/), but you probably know all that &$%# stuff already.


 
The site is interesting, even as I know Russian obscenities pretty well (they are nearly related to the Polish ones), and 'figa' is used in Polish (but only in a few expressions) as a euphemistic for an obscenity, so I had no big problems with guessing the meaning, I just wanted to get a confirmation. I also meant that translating *гармонь *with 'harmonica' was a misunderstanding.


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## William Stein

Ben Jamin said:


> The site is interesting, even as I know Russian obscenities pretty well (they are nearly related to the Polish ones), and 'figa' is used in Polish (but only in a few expressions) as a euphemistic for an obscenity, so I had no big problems with guessing the meaning, I just wanted to get a confirmation. I also meant that translating *гармонь *with 'harmonica' was a misunderstanding.


 
I didn't know 'figa' in Russian but I knew it from Italian from "la fica", which is like giving somebody the finger. It seems very weird that it would represent the male member. I think in Italian it's supposed to represent a vagina (despite the extended phallic middle finger of the gesture), which makes a lot more sense to me. What possible connection could there be between the male member and a fig (unless you had a bad case of some Martian venereal disease or something...)


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## morzh

Гармонь - it is usually translated as it is, "Garmon" or "Garmoshka", same as "Баян" is translated as "Bayan".
Sometimes it is translated as "Accordion", but only to explain the fact of it being a reed instrument and being in the same class. No one will call "гармошку" "аккордеон" in Russian for that very reason.

"Accordion" in Russia always was somewhat of an elite reed instrument. Elite meaning - in the league of piano and such.
Bayan was close, but was more popular with folks.
Garmon was always a folk instrument, requiring no schooling to play it; most "garmonists" were self-taught and it was a big advantage in dating games for someone in the old time to play Garmon - village girls loved it.

This is why for a Russian to call Garmon "Accordion" sounds somewhat ...not right. Though formally it is.


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## morzh

It is not know for sure where the word "фиг", in the sense we are talking about,  came from, except that almost every story (about German, French, Italian origins) has "фига" in it, and "фига" is a fig fruit. In Russian we also call it "смоква" / "инжир".

In the sense of the "screw you" gesture (the thumb pushed between the index and the middle fingers, with the fist closed) called "фига", we also have the words "дуля", "шиш" и "кукиш" (дуля is also a fruit...I think a pear of some sort).


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## Alex_cs_gsp

Ну и как зайцу стоп-сигнал.


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## morzh

Alex_cs_gsp said:


> Ну и как зайцу стоп-сигнал.



Уже было.


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## Ben Jamin

morzh said:


> Гармонь - it is usually translated as it is, "Garmon" or "Garmoshka", same as "Баян" is translated as "Bayan".
> Sometimes it is translated as "Accordion", but only to explain the fact of it being a reed instrument and being in the same class. No one will call "гармошку" "аккордеон" in Russian for that very reason.
> 
> "Accordion" in Russia always was somewhat of an elite reed instrument. Elite meaning - in the league of piano and such.
> Bayan was close, but was more popular with folks.
> Garmon was always a folk instrument, requiring no schooling to play it; most "garmonists" were self-taught and it was a big advantage in dating games for someone in the old time to play Garmon - village girls loved it.
> 
> This is why for a Russian to call Garmon "Accordion" sounds somewhat ...not right. Though formally it is.


 
Well, I meant Accordion in English, not in Russian.


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> It is not know for sure where the word "фиг", in the sense we are talking about, came from, except that almost every story (about German, French, Italian origins) has "фига" in it, and "фига" is a fig fruit. In Russian we also call it "смоква" / "инжир".
> 
> In the sense of the "screw you" gesture (the thumb pushed between the index and the middle fingers, with the fist closed) called "фига", we also have the words "дуля", "шиш" и "кукиш" (дуля is also a fruit...I think a pear of some sort).


 
I found these definitions from some online German dictionary (which I'll translate in brackets), but it doesn't sound like it's very accurate according to what you said:

фиг m [fig] : Beleidigende Gestik [Insulting Gesture], _s. Фига_. 
фига f [figa] : Penis („Feige“). [Fig] Bezeichnet auch ein Handzeichen, bei der in der geballten Faust der Daumen unter dem Zeigefinger herausguckt (vergleichbar mit dem Stinkefinger) [Also means a gesture of the hand in which the thumb sticks out below the index finger of the clenched fist (comparable with "the finger")] (_s. офигеть_).

http://www.russki-mat.net/page.php?l=RuDe&a=%D0%A4


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## Rosett

Как черту свечка.


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## William Stein

Rosett said:


> Как черту свечка.


 
I don't want to offend any religious people but there's a famous U.S. bumper sticker that says, "A man without Jesus is like a fish without a bicycle"


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## Slavianophil

Perhaps, the idea of the proverb might be clearer, if we consider a similar one which means exactly the same thing:

"Нафига козе баян, по кустам его трепать?" (вариант: "Нафига козе баян? Она и так весёлая!) (Why should a she-goat need a button accordeon, she would only wear and tear it in the bushes or Why should a she goat have a button accordeon? She is merry as it is!)

In all these sayings the idea is the same: Neither a priest or a she-goat have any use for a button accordeon. So, when I say anything like "Нафига козе баян?", I only mean to say in a funny way that I don't need something. 

I wonder what an English equivalent would be?


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## William Stein

Slavianophil said:


> Perhaps, the idea of the proverb might be clearer, if we consider a similar one which means exactly the same thing:
> 
> "Нафига козе баян, по кустам его трепать?" (вариант: "Нафига козе баян? Она и так весёлая!) (Why should a she-goat need a button accordeon, she would only wear and tear it in the bushes or Why should a she goat have a button accordeon? She is merry as it is!)
> 
> In all these sayings the idea is the same: Neither a priest or a she-goat have any use for a button accordeon. So, when I say anything like "Нафига козе баян?", I only mean to say in a funny way that I don't need something.
> 
> I wonder what an English equivalent would be?


 
I don't know of any exact equvalent. There's an old expression for something superfluous: "Like carrying coals to Newcastle" (which was a big mining town that didn't need more coal).
The bumper sticker I mentioned above translates to "Man needs J. like a fish needs a bicycle", which is similar to the Russian proverbs but a little more complex. In the same vein, you could improvise: I need your advice like a fish needs a palm reader/glass of Perrier/hair curlers/fireman/skydiving classes/tax consultant, etc.


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## Реалист

Гармонь:
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Russkaya_garmon.jpg
Баян:
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Jupiter_bayan_accordion.JPG
Аккордеон:
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BBianoAccordeon.jpg


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## Tomarenko

William Stein said:


> The bumper sticker I mentioned above translates to "Man needs J. like a fish needs a bicycle", which is similar to the Russian proverbs but a little more complex. In the same vein, you could improvise: I need your advice like a fish needs a palm reader/glass of Perrier/hair curlers/fireman/skydiving classes/tax consultant, etc.



Actually, there is a saying in Russian to the effect that:
"Like a fish (needs) an umbrella".
But skydiving classes - not bad!


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## William Stein

Tomarenko said:


> Actually, there is a saying in Russian to the effect that:
> "Like a fish (needs) an umbrella".
> But skydiving classes - not bad!


 
I forgot about one common expression (at least in NYC): I need your advice like a hole in the head! 
I wouldn't be surprised if that came from Russian (immigrants).
Do you have some expression like "Vash sovet mne nuzhno (o nuzhen?) kak golove dyrka"?


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## Tomarenko

If you google for "kak dyrka (v) golove" you'll find mostly Russian translations from English (like quotations etc.). But another idiom I just discovered is "kak telege pyatoe koleso" (like a fifth wheel for a carriage).


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## Maroseika

William Stein said:


> I forgot about one common expression (at least in NYC): I need your advice like a hole in the head!
> I wouldn't be surprised if that came from Russian (immigrants).



As far as I know it is from Yiddish. So it really came with immigrants from Russia.


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## William Stein

Maroseika said:


> As far as I know it is from Yiddish. So it really came with immigrants from Russia.


 
That's interesting. I like my fish expressions better, though, because in fact holes in the head are extremely useful: we couldn't eat, breathe, hear or see without them! In yoga they say that 7 of the 9 bodily orifices are in the head, if you count the "fontanelle".


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## Albionneur

Why on Earth would a canoe need a handbrake?


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> As far as I know it is from Yiddish. So it really came with immigrants from Russia.



Strictly speaking, just not to confuse the today's reader (Yes Ukraine was part of Russian Empire back then), the immigrants came mostly from Ukraine, not the Russia proper. Russia did not have shtetls.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> Strictly speaking, just not to confuse the today's reader (Yes Ukraine was part of Russian Empire back then), the immigrants came mostly from Ukraine, not the Russia proper. Russia did not have shtetls.



Since the Ukraine was a part of Russia since very long ago, immigrants from Zmierzynka called themselves immigrants from Russia, didn't they? Who ever in US distinguished the Ukraine from Russia proper and both from Belorussia in the beginning of the 20th century?
Maybe immigrants from Poland felt themselves more inhabitants of Poland, than of Russia. But not so in the case of the Ukraine, I guess.


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## morzh

As for the original saying, yes, it is Yiddish "Loch in kop" and American Jews use it exactly like this: "I need it like a loch in kop" (pronounced "lokh en kohp"). (but don't assume all Americans or even all American Jews will understand it nowadays - older Jews will)

However English had its own very similar expressions, like this one (a very old proverb) "I have as much need of it as I have of the pip or of a cough" ("pip" is a disease).


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## NiNulla

Tomarenko said:


> If you google for "kak dyrka (v) golove" you'll find mostly Russian translations from English (like quotations etc.). But another idiom I just discovered is "kak telege pyatoe koleso" (like a fifth wheel for a carriage).


Я бы сказала "как собаке пятая нога", про телегу как-то слышать не доводилось.


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## Ben Jamin

morzh said:


> Strictly speaking, just not to confuse the today's reader (Yes Ukraine was part of Russian Empire back then), the immigrants came mostly from Ukraine, not the Russia proper. Russia did not have shtetls.



The lack of Jewish emigrants from Russia proper was caused not only by the lack of shtetls in Russia, but also of urban Jewish population. Jews were simply not allowed to live in the Russian Empire outside the so called Pale of Settlement, corresponding roughly to the territories of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth annected by Russia in the period 1772 - 1814 (so Eastern Ukraine was also outside the Pale). Only Jews that had university education, very rich ones and/or specially merited for the Tzar could obtain the permission to live in Russia proper. Those people were few, and naturally, seldom emigrated.


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## morzh

Why is it exactly that we are reviving this 1-year-old thread?
Because of the lack of other topics?


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## NiNulla

morzh said:


> Why is it exactly that we are reviving this 1-year-old thread?
> Because of the lack of other topics?


Sorry, I am new here and was just following your posts, didn't pay attention it was an old thread. Please don't kill me.


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## morzh

Oh, no one's killing anyone, it's just that it's been three pages already....a year ago I thought (not without a hope) that was it.


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## Stokkard

There is no direct translation. Approximate translation is "dead in the water".


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## Ihori

morzh said:


> we also have the words "дуля", "шиш" и "кукиш" (дуля is also a fruit...I think a pear of some sort).


Upon euphemisms.
Michail Lermontov about St.Peterburg of 1832:
_
. . . Увы! как скучен этот город, 
С своим туманом и водой! . . 
Куда ни взглянешь, *красный ворот*, 
*Как шиш, торчит перед тобой*; _

Here _красный ворот _is the police (_red neckband _as a part of uniform).


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## Stokkard

Ihori said:


> Upon euphemisms.
> Michail Lermontov about St.Peterburg of 1832:
> _
> . . . Увы! как скучен этот город,
> С своим туманом и водой! . .
> Куда ни взглянешь, *красный ворот*,
> *Как шиш, торчит перед тобой*; _
> 
> Here _красный ворот _is the police (_red neckband _as a part of uniform).


And here we encounter cultural differences – in the USA we do not have a gesture representing “figa”, although we have a fig fruit , which is not a pear. “Fig fruit” is “inzhir”


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## Ihori

Stokkard said:


> we do not have a gesture representing “figa”



Sorry for the off-topic, but we all study each other's culture (if the word might be proper for the case).
But don't you have a gesture, when one simultatiously clenchs fingers in a fist, claps by the palm of another arm on an inner side of the first one's elbow and rises the fisted arm staright forward with a little sway up and fixed down?
The meaning of the figa-gesture is same, but less weak, more compact and childish.


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## Stokkard

Ihori said:


> Sorry for the off-topic, but we all study each other's culture (if the word might be proper for the case).
> But don't you have a gesture, when one simultatiously clenchs fingers in a fist, claps by the palm of another arm on an inner side of the first one's elbow and rises the fisted arm staright forward with a little sway up and fixed down?
> The meaning of the figa-gesture is same, but less weak, more compact and childish.


Yes, we have the gesture that you described, but the Russians have a similar gesture, so they are ahead of us because they have two gestures while we have only one. 
On the other hand, we have a gesture that is called "to give a finger", but it is just a derivative 
The Chinese, by the way, have the figa-gesture; I saw it in a Chinese martial arts movie.


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