# Reversing language search?



## Kelly B

Hi!

In general, I pay no attention to whether English -> French vs. French -> English is selected. The search box defaults to one or the other most of the time for me, and the tool is usually smart enough to recognize which language my search term is in. So I usually get exactly what I want, and I'm delighted with that. 

Sometimes, though, if a version of the term exists in both languages, I'll get a result that isn't useful. For example, if I search for the phrase *de par* with English -> French in the scrolling menu, I get the abbreviation for Delaware. That's not what I was looking for.

At that point the search box is empty, so I have to start over. This is not a big deal, but I'd be even more delighted if you'd put a clickable link on the top of the results page that says something like _reverse direction, reverse search,_ or_ French-English, _that will use my same word or phrase to give results in the other direction. I think a version of that appears under other circumstances, maybe with the text _did you mean to search the French-English dictionary instead._..? but I can't remember when I see that. If it already exists, it might be as simple as offering that option for every search. So, for example:

--------------------------

*de par*

reverse search OR French-English OR Did you mean to search the French-English dictionary instead?
English definition | English synonyms | in Spanish | conjugator | in context | images

Collins English French Electronic Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers 2005:

*DE* [*ˌdiːˈiː*] _abbr_(_US_) =*Delaware
*
--------------------
Thanks! 
Ever-so-lazy dictionary lover


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## Punky Zoé

Lazy PZ do second Kelly's suggestion and in order to strenghten my laziness is there a way to make the dictionary distinguish French from English when the typed word includes one or several accents? For example, if I type "référence" it is a French word and the way of translation is French -> English, If I type 'reference' it's an English word and I'm looking for a French translation. (don't forget accents marks are mandatory in French ).

Not a big deal, though...


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## jann

Kelly B said:


> I think a version of that appears under other circumstances, maybe with the text _did you mean to search the French-English dictionary instead._..? but I can't remember when I see that. If it already exists, it might be as simple as offering that option for every search.


It happens when you search for something that isn't found in the dictionary at all -- typos (treal), or terms for which we have no entry in WR or Collins (electrophoretic). 

Search isn't case-sensitive, and when you search for an expression, the algorithm tries to match the first word you type in the dictionary you select.  Only if no match is found does the reverse translation get tested.  And if no reverse translation is found either, then you get the "did you mean to search for...?" link on the "no results" page.

So when you search the EN>FR dictionary for the French expression _de par_, the first word, _de_, matches the English abbreviation "DE," and so you get routed to the entry for the abbreviation for "Delaware"... rather than getting redirected to the FR>EN page for _de par. _


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## Kelly B

Hi Jann, 

Yes, I understand why the results work as they do; I'm suggesting the addition of a link on the page where those results are displayed that would make it easier to get to the results I actually want.


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## jann

Kelly B said:


> Hi Jann,
> 
> Yes, I understand why the results work as they do; I'm suggesting the addition of a link on the page where those results are displayed that would make it easier to get to the results I actually want.


Yes, I realize, and I think a little button to reverse the search direction is a nice idea.  

Since you said you couldn't quite recall when the "did you mean..." prompt appears, I just wanted to add the summary of the current behavior, for the sake of compeleteness.


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## Kelly B

Meanwhile, this one is four and a half years old. It still drives me batty.

It's worse, now, because to switch to Fr - En, which I prefer over the default En - Fr that I get when I first arrive, I have to scroll past nineteen other language pairs to find it. I don't even bother to find English Only on that list; fortunately I can go to the EO forum via Watched Forums and start a search from there.

- I still would love to have a version of this appear *every time* I search a language pair, not only when the search fails entirely:
Reverse search OR Did you mean to search the French-English dictionary instead?

- It would also be helpful if, when I'm searching from within the Fr-En forum, the first *three *choices at the *top *of the drop-down menu were
   Fr->En
   En ->Fr
   English Only
   English to [twenty other languages]
   French to [twenty other languages]
   etc.

- I would like to be able to set my preferred language search pair to Fr-En instead of En-Fr in the same way I can set my preferred display language to English (or French, when the mood strikes.)


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## velisarius

Kelly B said:


> Meanwhile, this one is four and a half years old. It still drives me batty.
> 
> It's worse, now, because to switch to Fr - En, which I prefer over the default En - Fr that I get when I first arrive, I have to scroll past nineteen other language pairs to find it. I don't even bother to find English Only on that list; fortunately I can go to the EO forum via Watched Forums and start a search from there.
> 
> - I still would love to have a version of this appear *every time* I search a language pair, not only when the search fails entirely:
> Reverse search OR Did you mean to search the French-English dictionary instead?
> 
> - It would also be helpful if, when I'm searching from within the Fr-En forum, the first *three *choices at the *top *of the drop-down menu were
> Fr->En
> En ->Fr
> English Only
> English to [twenty other languages]
> French to [twenty other languages]
> etc.
> 
> - I would like to be able to set my preferred language search pair to Fr-En instead of En-Fr in the same way I can set my preferred display language to English (or French, when the mood strikes.)



I heartily agree.


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## Language Hound

Kelly B said:


> ...
> - I would like to be able to set my preferred language search pair to Fr-En instead of En-Fr in the same way I can set my preferred display language to English (or French, when the mood strikes.)


I would like to be able to do this as well in order to save a lot of time as most of my searches are from French to English and not from English to French.

Would this be possible, Mike?


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## Kelly B

My annual bumps, now with user alerts! @mkellogg 

All I want for Christmas is a feature or two, a feature or two....


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## L'irlandais

I only just (now) stumbled on WR reverse in the WR dictionary:
word - English-Spanish Dictionary - WordReference.com


> Entries from the other side of the dictionary that translate to “word”


Very cool.


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## Kelly B

Ooooooh, excellent, thank you for pointing that out!


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## DearPrudence

Hmm? 
I can't see anything 
chat - English-French Dictionary WordReference.com
(but I wanted "chat" as fren)


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## swift

Hmmmm...

This is what I see (I selected *FR chat* from the drop-down menu):


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## DearPrudence

Oh, that button!
Doesn't bring me to fren if I'm in enfr though.
I wish I had a better example than "chat", when I have to type again the very same word in the search box because I landed in enfr while I wanted fren for instance, as Kelly mentioned in her original post.
Easily available in the Larousse for instance (to the right of the search box)
Dictionnaire Français-Anglais en ligne - Larousse


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## Kelly B

_*De par*_  from Post #1 remains a good example, I think. The results have changed since then, but it's still not reversible if you search En->Fr by mistake.


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## swift

I have an example: _crêpe_. I select *FR crêpe* from the drop-down menu, then click on *WR Reverse*:



This method also works with _croissant_ (which is the same in French and Spanish).


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## DearPrudence

Yes, Kelly, actually, your "de par" example is much better than mine.
Currently, you land on "de" and as a result, you have
1) to retype "de par" in the search box,
2) click on the arrow
3) and choose the French-English dictionary.
Would be great if you just needed to click on one button.

--------------
[edit, written in the wrong post, sorry]
Quite related, maybe this is also about the display of the dictionary.
I saw quite a lot of people not noticing in which direction they were and writing things like:
IL = he
disputer = tell off
sondage = survey
derrière = behind
verger = orchard
puce = flea
... (my list is endless)

Yes, all true, they were not in the right dictionary; in enfr instead of fren


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## swift

I’m wondering if this issue has to do with some set phrases only. I typed _de peur que_ and _de suite_, and the dictionary didn’t suggest those phrases in the drop-down menu. In contrast, _à l’inverse_ and _à l’aise _show up as soon as I type _à l'_.


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## Kelly B

It isn't an issue, so much as a request for a feature that we would find very useful.


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## DearPrudence

@swift, see my edit in post#17, where I added other examples, which are not compounds.


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## swift

Kelly B said:


> It isn't an issue


I believe it is an issue that those existing entries are not suggested by the dictionary.

And the reverse button is a necessary improvement.


DearPrudence said:


> other examples, which are not compounds.


Yes, but those do appear in the drop-down suggestions so you can select the right source language.


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## DearPrudence

swift said:


> Yes, but those do appear in the drop-down suggestions so you can select the right source language.


Well, say it to all the confused users 
Also, it often happens to me that I press enter without checking the dropdown menu and land on the wrong side. Or that there is no suggestion on neither side.
Anyway. I'm often not on the side I wanted to, even though I do know a bit how to use a dictionary


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## swift

Yeah, I wonder how they look up those words. I get your and Kelly’s point, I’m just curious as to why they’re ignoring the drop-down suggestions.

So it appears that what we need is a disambiguation feature, which could be a *⇄ **button* and a list of *homonyms*.


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## Philippides

I second this request for a *⇄ button! *


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## Hector9

So do I


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## Kelly B

I SEE IT! I USED IT! I LOVE IT!
Thank you!


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## DearPrudence

Yes, I've seen the button and it still doesn't solve my problem:
if I am on the wrong side of the dictionary
(eg: de par in enfr instead of fren)
I have to retype my word entirely again


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