# I wish you would be here



## newname

Hi,

I was revising 'wish + would' when I saw this sentence:

"I wish you would be here when my mother arrives"

This sentence is from this thread at post #4: http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/i-wish-you-stayed-correct.2906313/#post-14692352

I want to be 100% sure that a state verb can be used after would when there's a phrase or clause to modify it like the following:

I wish I would be taller when I am 20.
I wish he would be taller when he's 20.
I wish car prices would be cheaper after we join WTO.
I wish she would forget my dirty act when she's older.
I wish he wouldn't live next to us when he's out of prison.

Thank you a lot.


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## Thomas Tompion

I think you need to have another look at that thread, Newname.

_I wish you would + bare infinitive_ is not a structure to be used in any of the circumstances you mention - I couldn't write any of your sentences.

It's a formula to be used when asking someone to do something (usually something habitual) which they are not currently doing - eg._ I wish you would tidy up your bedroom occasionally._

I'll give you a translation of your sentences as I understand them.

I wish I would be taller when I am 20 - _I hope I'm taller when I'm twenty.  _Because the subjects of the two clauses are the same, one might say_ I hope to be taller when I'm twenty._
I wish he would be taller when he's 20 - _I hope he's taller when he's twenty_.
I wish car prices would be cheaper after we join WTO - _I hope car prices are lower_ (cars are cheaper) _after we join WTO._
I wish she would forget my dirty act when she's older - _When she's older I hope she will forget what I did._
I wish he wouldn't live next to us when he's out of prison - _I hope he doesn't live next to us when he's out of prison._

Notice that in these cases I think it best to replace_ I wish _with _I hope._


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## PaulQ

None of your examples work for me, although the last one is possible if you are complaining about a person who is *now *living next to you. If the man is still in prison, it doesn't work.

The first, second, and third are wrong as "I wish" is (i) not idiomatic (it should be "I hope") and (ii) should be followed by the present tense.
The fourth one is wrong as "I wish" is (i) not idiomatic (it should be "I hope") and (ii) should be followed by the future tense.

Crosspost with TT


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## Kirill V.

Can present subjunctive be ever used after_ wish_? Or again hope must be used to refer to future situations?

For example:
A is not here now.
B wishes A were here now, and especially B wants A to be here when C comes.

Can B say this to A:
- _I wish you were here, and I am really disappointed you are not! But I wish you at least be here when C comes!_
?


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## PaulQ

kayve said:


> Can present subjunctive be ever used after_ wish_?


Yes, the subjunctive is often used after to wish

"I wish he were not so clumsy." -> "He is clumsy but wish he weren't." -> You know he is not going to change - you are speaking against reality. You should see *to wish* as if the speaker is hoping for some inexplicable 'magic' to take place and thus change reality.

"I hope ..." usually expresses a possible reality: "I hope he has a good time."


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## DonnyB

kayve said:


> Can B say this to A:
> - _I wish you were here, and I am really disappointed you are not! But I wish you at least be here when C comes! _?


No, that doesn't work, the  *present* subjunctive form "I wish [that] you be here ... " sounds _very_ strange and stilted, and I don't think a native speaker would use it.

There's a choice there, as I see it, between "I *want* you *to be* here ..." (_which is closest to your scenario_) and "I *hope* you *can be/are* here ...".


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## Thomas Tompion

_I wish you be here_ is absurd in BE, in my view.

I wish you learners would stick to the subject of the thread.
I wish you would study the simple regular forms and learn from them.


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## Kirill V.

I see. Thank you very much, PaulQ, DonnyB and Thomas Tompion!
Just wanted to check whether _wish _+ pres. subjunctive might be possible...


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## Kirill V.

PaulQ said:


> You should see *to wish* as if the speaker is hoping for some inexplicable 'magic' to take place and thus change reality.
> 
> "I hope ..." usually expresses a possible reality: "I hope he has a good time."



Thanks a lot for this explanation! I think one reason why people keep asking questions about the _wish_ constructions again and again is exactly this - the fact that the meaning of _wish_ and its usage in English is somewhat different from those of the words that are considered to be its "equivalents" in other languages. Certainly this is true for my own native language.


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## Kirill V.

PaulQ said:


> Yes, the subjunctive is often used after to wish
> 
> "I wish he were not so clumsy." -> "He is clumsy but wish he weren't." -> You know he is not going to change - you are speaking against reality. You should see *to wish* as if the speaker is hoping for some inexplicable 'magic' to take place and thus change reality.
> 
> "I hope ..." usually expresses a possible reality: "I hope he has a good time."



In light of the above, if I may check just one more option, please:

_- They say the sky is going to fall down tomorrow.
- Oh, I am so tired, I wish it falls. But I don't really believe that's gonna happen._

Is this use of wish + present tense possible?


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## sound shift

Sorry, no; that use of wish + present tense (post 10) is not possible. "I hope it falls" would work, though.


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## Kirill V.

Yes, thanks, just wanted to double-check.

My picture of _wish_-constructions is more or less clear now.
Somehow it always gets blurred as time goes by, though... so I am sure either me or somebody else on this forum is going to revisit the issue in some time.


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## newname

Thank you all a lot.

I just wanted to double check my understanding of this structure. 
< --- > 




< --- > Off topic comment removed. 
Cagey, moderator.


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## Ivan_I

Hi TT! A few follow-ups.



Thomas Tompion said:


> _ I wish you would tidy up your bedroom occasionally.
> _




What is the difference between the sentence above and this:

*I wish you tidied up your bedroom occasionally.*



Thomas Tompion said:


> I wish car prices would be cheaper after we join WTO - _I hope car prices are lower_ (cars are cheaper) _after we join WTO.
> _




I think "*hope*" makes a possibility valid. But what if I am sure it won't happen, then I think "wish" fits better. Why not?

*I wish car prices were cheaper after we join WTO.*


Thomas Tompion said:


> I wish she would forget my dirty act when she's older - _When she's older I hope she will forget what I did.
> _



Why not? 
I wish she COULD forget my dirty act when she's older.


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## Myridon

Ivan_I said:


> I think "*hope*" makes a possibility valid. But what if I am sure it won't happen, then I think "wish" fits better. Why not?
> 
> *I wish car prices were cheaper after we join WTO.*
> 
> Why not?


If you are sure it won't happen, then that's a "fact" (a firm opinion) to you, not something you wish or hope.
(I think) Car prices won't be cheaper after we join WTO.


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## Ivan_I

Myridon said:


> If you are sure it won't happen, then that's a "fact" (a firm opinion) to you, not something you wish or hope.
> (I think) Car prices won't be cheaper after we join WTO.


Are you saying that "I wish" can't convey a fact? Why not?

* I wish I were a martian. *
The fact is that I am not. And I can convey it without "I think".

*I think* is different from *I wish*.


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## Myridon

Ivan_I said:


> Are you saying that "I wish" can't convey a fact? Why not?
> 
> * I wish I were a martian. *
> The fact is that I am not. And I can convey it without "I think".
> 
> *I think* is different from *I wish*.


"I am a Martian" is not a fact.  You can wish that it were true.
"Prices won't be cheaper." is a fact (in your opinion).  You can't wish or hope it to be true because, to you, it already is true.


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## Ivan_I

Myridon said:


> "I were a Martian" is not a fact.


Myridon, it's not even what I said)))

I wish I were a Martian. - MEANS - I am not a Martian. And that's a fact.


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## Myridon

Ivan_I said:


> Myridon, it's not even what I said)))
> 
> I wish I were a Martian. - MEANS - I am not a Martian. And that's a fact.


Your context is:


Ivan_I said:


> But what if I am sure it won't happen, then I think "wish" fits better. Why not?
> 
> *I wish car prices were cheaper after we join WTO.*


I think maybe I did misunderstand you. 
I think the issue you're having is "car prices after we join WTO" are not yet decided.  You know you are not a Martian now, but we don't know what car prices will be (even if you're sure about it).  
In "I wish I were a Martian.", "were" is actually the present subjunctive (it's not true now, I wish it were true now) - you can't use the present subjunctive about the future (it's undecided now, I hope it will be true in the future).


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## tunaafi

Myridon said:


> In "I wish I were a Martian.", "were" is actually the present subjunctive


It's the *past *subjunctive form used with reference to a counterfactual present. The present subjunctive form is 'be' - _If that be so, ..._


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## eugenioandreev

Thomas Tompion said:


> I think you need to have another look at that thread, Newname.
> 
> _I wish you would + bare infinitive_ is not a structure to be used in any of the circumstances you mention - I couldn't write any of your sentences.
> 
> It's a formula to be used when asking someone to do something (usually something habitual) which they are not currently doing - eg._ I wish you would tidy up your bedroom occasionally._
> 
> I'll give you a translation of your sentences as I understand them.
> 
> I wish I would be taller when I am 20 - _I hope I'm taller when I'm twenty.  _Because the subjects of the two clauses are the same, one might say_ I hope to be taller when I'm twenty._
> I wish he would be taller when he's 20 - _I hope he's taller when he's twenty_.
> I wish car prices would be cheaper after we join WTO - _I hope car prices are lower_ (cars are cheaper) _after we join WTO._
> I wish she would forget my dirty act when she's older - _When she's older I hope she will forget what I did._
> I wish he wouldn't live next to us when he's out of prison - _I hope he doesn't live next to us when he's out of prison._
> 
> Notice that in these cases I think it best to replace_ I wish _with _I hope._


Hello.

Let me insert a shortened citation from Practical English Usage, 4th edition (by Michael Swan, Oxford University Press).
page 632:
" .... Would is very common in that-clauses after wish... Sentences with wish . . . would express *regret or annoyance that something will not happen*.
Everybody wishes you would go home. (= Why won’t you go home?)
I wish you would stop smoking. (= Why won't you stop smoking?)
I wish Jack would call me. (But it looks as if he won’t.)
I wish it would stop raining. (= It will keep on raining!)
Don’t you wish that this moment would last forever? ... "

Pay attention to the third example: "I wish Jack would call me (But it looks as if he won't)".
Why do you think it’s not correct to say “I wish I would be taller when I’m 20”?
Let me rephrase it a bit: “I’m 19 now, soon to be 20, but it looks like I’m no longer growing up and, unfortunately, it seems as if I’m not going to be accepted into that basketball team. What a shame! I wish I would be taller when I’m 20, but that looks impossible. Life isn’t fair, is it?” Here the speaker expresses his regret about the situation and understands that what his wants won’t happen.
The same applies to “I wish she would forget what I did, when she’s older”. The speaker feels that what he did is really serious and painful to another woman, something that’s unlikely to be forgotten. And he regrets that.

As far as the other examples with “prison” and “car prices”, I agree that they don’t sound natural with the verb “wish”.

I hope you’ll write a short reply to my message. 
Thank you.


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi eugenioandreev, "wish" is a complicated verb in English usage. In the particular sentence you're querying ("I wish I would be taller when I'm 21" ), I think the following usage applies:


> Construction WISH + WOULD + simple infinitive​The verb WOULD with the simple infinitive is used after WISH to express a wish that someone would do something *to change the existing situation. *The wish is usually a combination of a request to do something and a complaint about the existing situation or about someone's actions. Since the speaker addresses his wish to someone else, WOULD is used with the pronouns "he, she, it, you, they", but not with "I, we".
> Situation: _You use my computer without my permission_. – Wish: _I wish you wouldn't use my computer without my permission._
> (usefulenglish.ru)


Note the important references to "the existing situation".
I wish Jack would call me.  The existing situation is that Jack is not calling me, and I want him to.
I wish I would be taller when I'm 21.  I am not 21, that situation is not an existing situation that I want to change.
I hope _I'm_ / _I'll be_ taller when I'm 21.


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## eugenioandreev

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi eugenioandreev, "wish" is a complicated verb in English usage. In the particular sentence you're querying ("I wish I would be taller when I'm 21" ), the following usage applies:
> 
> Note the important references to "the existing situation".
> I wish Jack would call me.  The existing situation is that Jack is not calling me, and I want him to.
> I wish I would be taller when I'm 21.  I am not 21, that situation is not an existing situation that I want to change.
> I hope _I'm_ / _I'll be_ taller when I'm 21.


I could have said "I wish you would read entry 632 in Practical English Usage (by M. Swan, Oxford University Press)."
But I'll be more optimistic by saying: "I hope you'll read it some time."


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## Enquiring Mind

I read it . That was the author's attempt to explain his reasoning. Perhaps "*will* not happen" was not the best choice of tense there. All those sentences still refer to an existing situation (not a situation at a point in the future "when I'm 21").

Your "I wish you would read ..." is a *different* usage of wish. There's no implication that I won't read it, and since you don't know if I've read it and there's no evidence to suggest that, neither is there a correctly expressed implication of regret or complaint about *an existing situation*.  You want me to read it, or you wish I had read it.


> Construction WISH + WOULD + simple infinitive​(...)
> Important note
> Wishes in constructions with the verb WISH express hypothetical, unlikely, or unreal actions, with additional
> emotions of regret or complaint about the existing situation. *Do not use such constructions* when you want**,* would like, or hope to do something, or want to ask someone to do something. (usefulenglish.ru)


*= wish + would +simple infinitive

As I said, the usage of "wish" in English is complicated, and your query (about "wish I would ... when I'm 21"), in my view, arises from not distinguishing these subtle differences of usage properly.  You're taking the syntax that applies to one kind of usage (existing situation) and trying to apply it to another kind of usage (future situation).


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## eugenioandreev

Enquiring Mind said:


> I read it . That was the author's attempt to explain his reasoning. Perhaps "*will* not happen" was not the best choice of tense there. All those sentences still refer to an existing situation (not a situation at a point in the future "when I'm 21").
> 
> Your "I wish you would read ..." is a *different* usage of wish. There's no implication that I won't read it, and since you don't know if I've read it and there's no evidence to suggest that, neither is there a correctly expressed implication of regret or complaint about *an existing situation*.  You want me to read it, or you wish I had read it.
> 
> *= wish + would +simple infinitive
> 
> As I said, the usage of "wish" in English is complicated, and your query (about "wish I would ... when I'm 21"), in my view, arises from not distinguishing these subtle differences of usage properly.  You're taking the syntax that applies to one kind of usage (existing situation) and trying to apply it to another kind of usage (future situation).


Thank you very much for your detailed reply. Indeed, the wish-stuff is tricky.
Some additional questions:
1. Do you think the author of Practical English Usage, by saying "regret or annoyance that something will not happen", meant situations in which things or people "refuse to work/do sth, etc"? As in the following sentence: "Damn! The car won't start!" or "That naughty child won't listen."
2. What would be the right way to express the idea in that sentence about the age (" I wish .... taller when I'm 21.")? How about this sentence then: "It's a pity/shame that I won't be taller when I'm 21"?
3. If we leave out "when I'm 21", and concentrate on talking about the present situation, would it be correct to say:
"I wish I would be taller [now]" instead of "I wish I were/was taller [now]"? If yes, will there be a difference between the two sentences?


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## Loob

_*I wish x would do y*_ implies that x is refusing to do y, or at least is reluctant to do it. So it doesn't usually work when x = "I".


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## eugenioandreev

Loob said:


> _*I wish x would do y*_ implies that x is refusing to do y, or at least is reluctant to do it. So it doesn't usually work when x = "I".


Thank you.
Is it correct to say "I wish you would be taller and would be able to drill that hole in the upper part of the wall!"
If yes, will it differ from "I wish you were taller and were able to drill that hole in the upper part of the wall!"?
As I see it, the second sentence with "were" refers to a general ability. If the first is correct too, then it's most likely to refer to this very situation and express annoyance, for example.
I wonder if I'm right.


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## Keith Bradford

eugenioandreev said:


> ...How about this sentence then: "It's a pity/shame that I won't be taller when I'm 21"?
> ... would it be correct to say:
> "I wish I would be taller [now]" instead of "I wish I were/was taller [now]"? If yes, will there be a difference between the two sentences?


I don't think it's ever correct to say "I wish I would be..."

There's a logical reason for this. (Read closely: logical reasons don't often occur in English!)  "I would" is the conditional form of "I will".  "I will", as well as being a way of expressing the future, means "I want... I wish to..."

So, "I wish I would..." means "I wish that I wished to".  That's silly.



eugenioandreev said:


> ...Is it correct to say "I wish you would be taller and would be able to drill that hole in the upper part of the wall!"
> ...


For the same reason, this doesn't work.  It means "I want you to want to be taller..."  That too is silly.  But to say "I wish you would tidy your room" is perfectly logical -- I want you to *want to* tidy your room, so that you do it automatically without me nagging you.


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## eugenioandreev

Keith Bradford said:


> I don't think it's ever correct to say "I wish I would be..."
> 
> There's a logical reason for this. (Read closely: logical reasons don't often occur in English!)  "I would" is the conditional form of "I will".  "I will", as well as being a way of expressing the future, means "I want... I wish to..."
> 
> So, "I wish I would..." means "I wish that I wished to".  That's silly.
> 
> 
> For the same reason, this doesn't work.  It means "I want you to want to be taller..."  That too is silly.  But to say "I wish you would tidy your room" is perfectly logical -- I want you to *want to* tidy your room, so that you do it automatically without me nagging you.


Thank you very much.
One more question, if you will.
I've heard an American teacher say "Bill Clinton wishes Hillary Clinton would be President".  
< Video link removed. Cagey, moderator >
If it is correct, does it differ from "Bill Clinton wishes Hillary Clinton were/was President"? In what way?


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## Loob

"Bill Clinton wishes Hillary Clinton would be President" looks very wrong to me.  (It would be OK with "could" instead of "would".)


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## eugenioandreev

Loob said:


> "Bill Clinton wishes Hillary Clinton would be President" looks very wrong to me.  (It would be OK with "could" instead of "would".)


I wonder if that teacher in the video is wrong or if it's just about the notorious AmE - BrE opposition...


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## Wordy McWordface

Yes, definitely wrong. And no, nothing to do with any "opposition".


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## eugenioandreev

Keith Bradford said:


> I don't think it's ever correct to say "I wish I would be..."
> 
> There's a logical reason for this. (Read closely: logical reasons don't often occur in English!)  "I would" is the conditional form of "I will".  "I will", as well as being a way of expressing the future, means "I want... I wish to..."
> 
> So, "I wish I would..." means "I wish that I wished to".  That's silly.
> 
> 
> For the same reason, this doesn't work.  It means "I want you to want to be taller..."  That too is silly.  But to say "I wish you would tidy your room" is perfectly logical -- I want you to *want to* tidy your room, so that you do it automatically without me nagging you.


Is it correct to say "I wish you would be able to drill that hole/help me, etc"?
That's my last question, I promise :=)


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## Wordy McWordface

eugenioandreev said:


> Is it correct to say "I wish you would be able to drill that hole/help me, etc"?




No. If the other person isn't able to help you for some reason (They haven't got the time? They've got a broken wrist? Their insurance policy forbids it?) you'd say "I wish you could help me".  The fact is that they _can't _help you, but you wish that they _could. _(Move the tense back in time, as the fellow on the video says).

_I wish + person + would _only works if you're referring to lack of willingness on the part of the other person.  For example, if other person is stubbornly refusing to help you, you'd say "I wish you would help me". The fact is that they _won't_ help you (meaning they aren't willing) but you wish that they _would._

This is why the Bill Clinton example is wrong. We can't use _would _in that situation because it's not about willingness.  It's not through lack of willingness that Hillary isn't President.

You could say, for example, _Hillary wishes Bill would be honest about his affairs, _because there is an element of volition involved. He refuses to be honest, and she wishes it were otherwise.  That's very different from being President. You can change your mind and decide to help your friend or decide to be honest and the situation will change; you can't suddenly decide to be President!


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## eugenioandreev

Wordy McWordface said:


> No. If the other person isn't able to help you for some reason (They haven't got the time? They've got a broken wrist? Their insurance policy forbids it?) you'd say "I wish you could help me".  The fact is that they _can't _help you, but you wish that they _could. _(Move the tense back in time, as the fellow on the video says).
> 
> _I wish + person + would _only works if you're referring to lack of willingness on the part of the other person.  For example, if other person is stubbornly refusing to help you, you'd say "I wish you would help me". The fact is that they _won't_ help you (meaning they aren't willing) but you wish that they _would._
> 
> This is why the Bill Clinton example is wrong. We can't use _would _in that situation because it's not about willingness.  It's not through lack of willingness that Hillary isn't President.
> 
> You could say, for example, _Hillary wishes Bill would be honest about his affairs, _because there is an element of volition involved. He refuses to be honest, and she wishes it were otherwise.  That's very different from being President. You can change your mind and decide to help your friend or decide to be honest and the situation would change; you can't suddenly decide to be President!


I wish your explanations were in grammar books.


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## Wordy McWordface

They are


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## eugenioandreev

Wordy McWordface said:


> They are


I don't agree. If they really were there, I wouldn't have asked my questions in this thread.
But I admit that I haven't read all the grammar books, so I'm likely to have missed some explanations in some of them.


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## Wordy McWordface

eugenioandreev said:


> If they really were there, I wouldn't have asked my questions in this thread.


Nice example of a mixed conditional there.


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## bliveornot

I you really want to use "wish" you can say, "My wish is to be taller when I'm 20.".


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## stephenlearner

Wordy McWordface said:


> _I wish + person + would _only works if you're referring to lack of willingness on the part of the other person. For example, if other person is stubbornly refusing to help you, you'd say "I wish you would help me". The fact is that they _won't_ help you (meaning they aren't willing) but you wish that they _would._


Hi Wordy McWordface, how do you interpret "I wish + a person + wouldn't do"? For example, "I wish he wouldn't eat too much sugar."


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## eugenioandreev

stephenlearner said:


> Hi Wordy McWordface, how do you interpret "I wish + a person + wouldn't do"? For example, "I wish he wouldn't eat too much sugar."


This has already been discussed in detail in other threads.


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## stephenlearner

eugenioandreev said:


> This has already been discussed in detail in other threads.


I've been reading threads, but haven't read a clear explanation. 

I'm specifically interested in the meaning of "would". 



Wordy McWordface said:


> _I wish + person + would _only works if you're referring to lack of willingness on the part of the other person.


If this is true, can I say_ I wish + person + wouldn't _only works if I'm referring to the willingness on the part of the other person? For example: I wish he wouldn't eat too much sugar.


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## eugenioandreev

stephenlearner said:


> I've been reading threads, but haven't read a clear explanation.
> 
> I'm specifically interested in the meaning of "would".
> 
> 
> If this is true, can I say_ I wish + person + wouldn't _only works if I'm referring to the willingness on the part of the other person? For example: I wish he wouldn't eat too much sugar.


Type "I wish you wouldn't" in the search bar and you'll see a dozen threads where this structure is discussed.


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