# akkedineh - a fruit (loquat)



## jnoonlubnani

Does anyone know the english (or even better, the latin) name for this fruit that grows in the ME? In Lebanon it is called 'akkedineh'. I can't seem to find any reference to it in agri journals anywhere. thanks. S


----------



## jnoonlubnani

FYI - I have an answer.

Official name: Eriobotrya japonica or loquat in English (néfle in French). 

J


----------



## Josh_

How would you spell "akkedineh" in Arabic?  I was unsure how from your transliteration as there are many possibilities.  That might be one of the reasons there were no responses.

Either way "akkedineh" is most likely a regional name for loquat.  I found the name بشملة bashmala, which appears to be the more common term.  Here is a  picture along with the Arabic name.  And for comparison purposes here is the same picture with the English name.
(I know these are links to a commercial site, but I could not find any other resource in which the names appear with the picture of the fruit in both languages.  So for the sake of learning something new maybe we can keep them here?)

I was also able to find the name زعرور اليابان zu3ruur al-yaabaan -- literally 'azarole of Japan', which just must be a way to try to describe the loquat as the azarole is a fruit found in southern Europe.

Josh, amateur pomologist.


----------



## cherine

Josh_ said:


> How would you spell "akkedineh" in Arabic? I was unsure how from your transliteration as there are many possibilities. That might be one of the reasons there were no responses.


Correct. I never heard about akkedineh before.

But the English word helped a lot  Yes, it's bashmala in Egypt.


> (I know these are links to a commercial site, but I could not find any other resource in which the names appear with the picture of the fruit in both languages. So maybe for the sake of learning something new maybe we can keep them here.)


It's a point, Josh. But I found this photo 
And here's another photo on a not-so-obviously-commercial site 
It also give a definition :


> *LOQUAT:*Sometimes referrd to as Japanese plums, they grow to the size of apricots. They can be eaten alone or used in a salads. The texture is like a ripe pear and the flavor is similar to a sweet cherry and plum.


Source: http://www.vegiworks.com/exotic.htm


> I was also able to find the name زعرور اليابان zu3ruur al-yaabaan -- literally 'azarole of Japan', which just must be a way to try to describe the loquat as the azarole is a fruit found in southern Europe.


It's the first time for me to learn this name too.
By the way, bashmala is also grown in Egypt.


----------



## alajnabiya

In Palestine, they are called "askedinia," or at least that is how I pronounce it.  I wouldn't say they taste anything like a sweet cherry though. They are a bit sour, even when fully ripe. We have 2 trees in our yard, and they are full of fruit now. (Mid May)


----------



## Josh_

I just looked in my dictionary of Conversational Eastern Arabic, which is based on the Palestinian dialect, and indeed it says that a loquat is askidinya (the author's transliteration).  So either Jnoonlubnani forgot the 's' or the pronunciation is slightly different in Lebanon.  My guess on the spelling would be أسكدنية .  I'm glad we figured out this conundrum.


----------



## jnoonlubnani

Isn't it amazing how one thread unravels so many different aspects ofmeaning and history? All I wanted to know was the name of the fruit tree in my parents' (grandparents'.. greatgrandparents' before them...) home in Lebanon. Thank you so much for all this.

We call it Akkedineh. No 's'.



J


----------



## Qcumber

jnoonlubnani said:


> Eriobotrya japonica or loquat in English (néfle in French).


The French terms are:
fruit: *une nèfle* [grave accent]
tree: *un néflier* [acute accent]
colloquial idiomatic expression: *Des nèfles!* "No way!" [used when you rebuff an excessive demand] I fail to see the connection.


----------



## hortulus

alajnabiya said:


> In Palestine, they are called "askedinia," or at least that is how I pronounce it.  I wouldn't say they taste anything like a sweet cherry though. They are a bit sour, even when fully ripe. We have 2 trees in our yard, and they are full of fruit now. (Mid May)



I would agree that the fruit are not at all similar to cherries, but the nut, which is sometimes used to make a liqueur, or even roasted and eaten, is said to have a cherry-like flavor.

hortulus


----------



## hortulus

Qcumber said:


> The French terms are:
> fruit: *une nèfle* [grave accent]
> tree: *un néflier* [acute accent]
> colloquial idiomatic expression: *Des nèfles!* "No way!" [used when you rebuff an excessive demand] I fail to see the connection.



The common name 'medlars', refers to a European native, _Mespilus germanica_, which was plentiful and wild, but not particularly easy to prepare or among the usual list of gourmet foods - hence it was a common peasant food.  This may be the root of this French term ("des nèfles!"), which also means (or meant) "of little value".  When _Eriobotrya japonica_ was introduced to Europe in the 18th century, the fruit's similar look gave it the name *Japanese Medlar*, which now is often shorten by dropping the name of its origin.

hortulus


----------



## hortulus

Josh_ said:


> How would you spell "akkedineh" in Arabic?  I was unsure how from your transliteration as there are many possibilities.  That might be one of the reasons there were no responses.
> 
> I was also able to find the name زعرور اليابان zu3ruur al-yaabaan -- literally 'azarole of Japan', which just must be a way to try to describe the loquat as the azarole is a fruit found in southern Europe.
> 
> Josh, amateur pomologist.



Josh - 

Azarole is a name usually given to _Crataegus azaralus_, which is very closely related to both the true medlar (in fact it has been named _Mespilus azaralus_ by some botanists) as well as Japanese Medlar (_Eriobotrya japonica_) - they are all in the _Maloideae_ subfamily of the _Rosaceae_.

This thread is a good example of why scientific latin names are the most useful for determining the identity of the subject under discussion.

hortulus


----------



## Mahaodeh

It's askidunia in Iraq; it sounds like a mixed name Arabic and non-Arabic name (أسكي دنيا).


----------



## jnoonlubnani

... and the fabulous news is that 'akkedineh' (which, thanks to all of you, I now understand to be a purely Lebanese term) now googles!!

Wordreference comes up with this thread and also we now have this:    h2g2.com/A23708487 
Many many thanks to you all for helping me solve a little mystery.
J


----------



## elroy

Both pronunciations occur in Palestinian Arabic (with and without an _s_ sound), so the non-_s_ variant is not unique to Lebanon.  I personally say it with an _s_, but the other variant is common enough not to sound strange.

I would say, though, that the variant with the _s_ is more widespread.  In fact, there's a popular restaurant in Jerusalem with that name.

As per the English transliteration of the name of the restaurant, the word is commonly pronounced _askadinya_.  While the original pronunciation may have been _askidinya_ as per Josh's dictionary (and there are people who pronounce it that way), _askadinya_ probably emerged as an alternative pronunciation based on the similarity of the name of the fruit to the phrase _azka dinya_ ("tastiest world").  As a matter of fact, I would say that _askadinya_ is the most common pronunciation in Palestinian Arabic; at least that's what most people I know say.

I would expect, but I'm not totally positive, that the non-_s_ variant can also be pronounced with either vowel.  In other words, I'm pretty sure that both _akkadinya_ and _akkidinya_ are used.  I'm not absolutely positive because I've never paid that much attention to how people say the word.  

This is yet another example of how flexible Palestinian Arabic can be compared to other dialects.


----------



## Aoyama

> The French terms are:
> fruit: *une nèfle* [grave accent]
> tree: *un néflier* [acute accent]
> colloquial idiomatic expression: *Des nèfles!* "No way!" [used when you rebuff an excessive demand] I fail to see the connection


Absolutely. For the last meaning, probably because this fruit (with a subtle and light taste) was considered of poor value, and could only be eaten "blet" -half rotten- (see Hortulus comment #10).
Though the Latin name is _Eriobotrya japonica_ for the Japanese kind, or _Mespilus germanica _for the European/German kind, the common Japanese name is *biwa *(枇杷).
Medlar is bigger, and would be "coing" in French, *karin *(カリン) in Japanese, _quince_ in English. Both fruits look somewhat alike, but the quince is undoubtedly more tasty.
So here, what is the fruit in question that is called in Arabic _akkedineh, askidunia, askadinya, (akkadinya, akkidinya)_ depending on the dialect, where, despite the "pun" with _azka dinya _(see Elroy above), one might recognize KDN as being a possible root for the word ?
Which brings us to the Greek origin of the word μῆλα κυδώνια (Mela Kudonia), lit. apple of Kudon, where you find the possible root KDN ...


----------



## Xence

In Algerian, it's known as زعرورة  _za3ruura_.


----------

