# Persian Seh (see)



## CyrusSH

According to Persian dictionary: http://parsi.wiki/dehkhodaworddetail-fd460e8589e540c49f28a3bc498627b2-fa.html this word can be related to the verb _sahestan_ (to seem): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/سهستن of course in most of Persian dialects, like Old Tehrani, Shirazi, Lori, .. it just means "see", like سه کن or بسه, it has been mentioned in the Persian dictionary that it is very similar to Germanic _seh_.


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## ahvalj

The Common Germanic word for "sea" is reconstructed as _*saiwiz~*saiwaz_ (_Orel VE · 2003 · A handbook of Germanic etymology:_ 314; _Kroonen G · 2013 · Etymological dictionary of Proto-Germanic: _423). Does this still resemble the Persian word?


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## CyrusSH

I said "see" (perceive with the eyes) not "sea".


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## ahvalj

CyrusSH said:


> I said "see" (perceive with the eyes) not "sea".


Oh, sorry. Dementia, you know…

So, for "to see" we have *_sexwanan_ (_Orel VE · 2003 · A handbook of Germanic etymology: _323; _Kroonen G · 2013 · Etymological dictionary of Proto-Germanic:_ 431–432) from PIE _*sekʷ-,_ cognate to the Hittite _šakuu̯aı̯at_ "he saw, he looked", Old Indic _sacāmi_ "I observe, I follow", Greek _ἕπομαι_ "I follow", Latin _sequor_ "I follow", Lithuanian _seku_ "I follow", Belarusian _сачу_/_saču_ "I watch", all cognate further to the Anatolian words for "eye": Hittite _šākuu̯a-, _Luwian_ tawa-~tawi- _and Lycian_ tawa _("eyes"). The verb has a cognate in Avestan as well, e. g. _hacaitē _"he follows", with the absolutely expected Iranic _*s->h- _and _*e>a. _In Middle Persian its continuation is _hāxtan_ "to lead, to guide" (_Расторгуева ВС, Эдельман ДИ · 2007 · Этимологический словарь иранских языков. Том 3. f–h: _338–339; _Cheung J · 2007 · Etymological dictionary of the Iranian verb: _124–125).


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## Treaty

ahvalj said:


> ... Old Indic _sacāmi_ "I observe, I follow", Greek _ἕπομαι_ "I follow", Latin _sequor_ "I follow", Lithuanian _seku_ "I follow", ... cognate in Avestan as well, e. g. _hacaitē _"he follows"



Pokorny considered two _*sekʷ _roots for "to follow" and "to see", and put those Indo-Iranian words under the former, depriving the latter from an IIr cognate. Are they now considered the same root? (well, "to see" > "to watch" > "to follow" is verily a logical semantic sequence).


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## ahvalj

Treaty said:


> Pokorny considered two _*sekʷ _roots for "to follow" and "to see", and put those Indo-Iranian words under the former, depriving the latter from an IIr cognate. Are they now considered the same root? (well, "to see" > "to watch" > "to follow" is verily a logical semantic sequence).


I think it's a matter of taste: we have no tools to evaluate that. Logically speaking, if there were no phonetic distinctions between _*sekʷ-_ I and *_sekʷ-_ II (like e. g. high tone vs. low tone), and semantically both were very close, they should had merged back in PIE. Actually, slight or not so slight discrepancies in meaning are rather typical for daughter lineages, e. g. the classical *_bʰer_- is "to carry" in most branches, but "to take" in Slavic and "to strew" in Baltic.


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## ahvalj

There is actually one more variant of *_sekʷ_- with the meaning "to tell":
_*sekʷ-_ → Lithuanian _seku_ "I tell", Greek _ἐννέπω_ "I say, I announce", Latin _inquit_ "he says"
_*sokʷeı̯-~sokʷeı̯e-_ → Lithuanian _sakyti,_ Latvian _sacīt_, Germanic _*saǥjanan_ "to say" (also _*saǥōn_ "saga, tale, story")

The Slavic continuation of _*sokʷeı̯- _may be explained from either "to see", "to watch", "to follow" or "to tell": Serbian Church Slavonic _сочѫ/sočǫ_ "I indicate", Belarusian (cited above) _сачу/saču_ "I watch", Old Russian _сочу/soču_ "I seek, I find out, I inquire, I tell, I inform, I report, I accuse, I hunt down".


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## CyrusSH

ahvalj said:


> There is actually one more variant of *_sekʷ_- with the meaning "to tell":
> _*sekʷ-_ → Lithuanian _seku_ "I tell", Greek _ἐννέπω_ "I say, I announce", Latin _inquit_ "he says"
> _*sokʷeı̯-~sokʷeı̯e-_ → Lithuanian _sakyti,_ Latvian _sacīt_, Germanic _*saǥjanan_ "to say" (also _*saǥōn_ "saga, tale, story")



And Persian _saxon_ (speech).


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## ahvalj

CyrusSH said:


> And Persian _saxon_ (speech).


When I get this book — http://www.brill.com/etymological-dictionary-persian — I'll be able to comment your Persian suggestions, but so far I can only wait for other people to comment.


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## fdb

Middle Persian sahistan, present stem sah- means “to seem, to seem proper”, not “to see”. It belongs to the Iranian root sand-, zero-grade sad- > Persian sah-, cognate with Sanskrit cand-, Latin censeo etc. It appears with preverb pati- also in New Persian pasandīdan “to approve”.


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## CyrusSH

In Middle Persian there is also _sohistan_, present stem _soh-_, which means "to touch, to feel".


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## CyrusSH

This is a good Persian article about the verb *sahestan*: http://www.ensani.ir/storage/Files/20120426181325-5196-117.pdf

It strongly believes this verb just means "to see", for example it mentions a Middle Persian book entitled "Afdih o sahikih e Sagastan" and says the word *sahikih* clearly means "seeable" here.


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## CyrusSH

It can be related to Persian *su* (sight): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/سو#Etymology_2


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## Treaty

CyrusSH said:


> This is a good Persian article about the verb *sahestan*: http://www.ensani.ir/storage/Files/20120426181325-5196-117.pdf
> 
> It strongly believes this verb just means "to see", for example it mentions a Middle Persian book entitled "Afdih o sahikih e Sagastan" and says the word *sahikih* clearly means "seeable" here.



Did you really read that paper? It says what fdb said in #10. In nowhere it said _sahikih _means "seeable". It said it means دیدنی that is "worthy/proper to be seen". The author seems to believe it meant "to see" (literally) as well but fails to support it (all his MP examples are "to seem good" or "to prefer").

سو means "light" (or "dim light") not "sight". Its usage for "eye" is metaphorical akin to using نور for the same purpose. In olden days, many believed that light came out of eyes in order to see objects. So, if you couldn't see properly, it meant your eyes did not produce enough light (سو or نور).


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## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> Middle Persian sahistan, present stem sah- means “to seem, to seem proper”, not “to see”. It belongs to the Iranian root sand-, zero-grade sad- > Persian sah-, cognate with Sanskrit cand-, Latin censeo etc. It appears with preverb pati- also in New Persian pasandīdan “to approve”.



What does Sanskrit _cand_ mean?


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## CyrusSH

Treaty said:


> Did you really read that paper? It says what fdb said in #10. In nowhere it said _sahikih _means "seeable". It said it means دیدنی that is "worthy/proper to be seen". The author seems to believe it meant "to see" (literally) as well but fails to support it (all his MP examples are "to seem good" or "to prefer").
> 
> سو means "light" (or "dim light") not "sight". Its usage for "eye" is metaphorical akin to using نور for the same purpose. In olden days, many believed that light came out of eyes in order to see objects. So, if you couldn't see properly, it meant your eyes did not produce enough light (سو or نور).



In my first post I also said that _sahestan_ means "to seem" but fdb says it can't mean "to see" which is clearly wrong, I think the problem is about the verb "to seem", in English it relates to "impression" (Persian _gaman_ گمان) but in Persian it relates to "look" (Persian _negah_ نگاه), in fact in Persian there is no difference between "it seems good" and "it looks good".


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## fdb

CyrusSH said:


> What does Sanskrit _cand_ mean?



chand- (not cand- ; my mistake) “to appear, to please”, present stem chadaya-, like Old Persain ϑadaya- “to seem”, Avestan saδaiia- “to seem good”; also Skt. chandu- “pleasant”.


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## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> cand- “to appear, to please”, chandu- “pleasant”.



And what is your source?

http://sanskritdictionary.com/?q=cand"&lang=sans&iencoding=iast&action=Search

1.*cand* being glad, rejoicing
I think it is cognate to Persian *xand-* (خند) which means the same.

2. *cand* shining
It has been mentioned that this word is cognate to Latin *candeo* from proto-IE *kand- ‎(“to shine, glow”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/candeo


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## fdb

chand-, not cand-. Please see no. 17.


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## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> chand- (not cand- ; my mistake) “to appear, to please”, present stem chadaya-, like Old Persain ϑadaya- “to seem”, Avestan saδaiia- “to seem good”; also Skt. chandu- “pleasant”.



Ok, if we want to consider sound changes, this word in the Middle Persian should be "hand" which like Pashto اند: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/اند#Pashto means "view, thought", this word can be seen in Persian words like انداخت or اندیش or اندرز , ... it is good to mention Arabic _handasa_ (geometry) also relates to this word.


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## Derakhshan

Does anyone actually know what is the etymology of colloquial سی/سیل/سه کردن "to look"? According to this it is related to سهستن:



> نگاه کردن این فعل بدلی است از سهستن یا سهیستن در زبان پارسی به مانا (معنای ) نگریستن و نگاه کردن در گویشهای تهرانی کهنه و شیرازی واژگان بسه یا سی (سیل) یا سه کو ( سه کن ) به فراوانی شنیده میشود. در لری کهگیلویه و ممسنی و سپیدانی گویند سیل کن یا سی کو از این فعل میتوان ریخت های سهستن - سهیدن و سهیستن را بکار برد نزدیکی بی مانندی به see انگلیسی و se ژرمن اسکاندیناوی دارد واژگان پیشنهادی برگرفته : اندرسهستن - درسهستن = درنگریستن - غورکردن برسهستن - ابرسهستن = مشرف بودن - از بالا نگریستن - نگاه اشرافی داشتن به چیزی فراسهستن = دور دیدن - آینده را دیدن - گسترده و جامع نگریستن به داستان یا چیزی فروسهستن = خوار دیدن - کوچک شمردن - کم دیدن - دست کم گرفتن


معنی سیل کردن |  پارسی ویکی

In my own dialect it's *سِل*.


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## Treaty

I don't put too much faith in random entries in that site. The final /l/ is apparently etymological. The cluster /ey/ also suggests the possibility of a corruption of a longer cluster or consonants like /d/ or /g/. The initial /s/ can be from an older /s-/ but also from the preverb /us/. The final /l/ can be from either /r/ or /rd/. Given the word is used in as east as Dari, it is unlikely that it's a recent borrowing into SW Iranian.

I wonder what is the possibility of t being from Ir. root *_Hgar _(to watch) as *_us+Hgar _> *_sagar_ _> *sayr > sayl _(cf. *_us+kar _> _sigal_- "to think").


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## Derakhshan

I now believe it's from _seyr _سیر which is a synonym of تماشا.

Both words originally mean "walk around for recreation, sight-seeing, ramble", and the verbs for both seem to have developed into general "look/watch".


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## Derakhshan

Apparently the Old Gorgani language had the verb _say_- "look". The author of this paper even derives it from *_sand-_ "appear, seem", so was OP on to something? I'm not sure what to think. I stick to my position that the forms with final /l/ < Ar. سیر, but maybe in some cases these words are indeed from *_sand_.


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## Vukabular

In Serbian "soko" (hawk) from s+oko litrally "with eye".  *_bʰer - breme "weight" - bremenita "pregnant" _


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