# Ichi homphome



## Isidore Demsky

Is there a  word in Japanese that sound like ichi (one), and means "right," or "true"?


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## karlalou

I can't think of any.. maybe.. rather forcibly though, 律? 
It can read as りち(rhi-chi). It does not really mean 'right' or 'true', but 'law' or 'rule'.
However, the dictionary says it can be read as ただし when it's a person's name. I am not sure if this is correct way of thinking, but the name ただし is usually written 正, and this letter means 'right'.


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## kamot

Well, how about 一致(いっち)?
一致 = agreement, consistency , coincidence

It's a little different from *right* or *true*, though...


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## Isidore Demsky

kamot said:


> Well, how about 一致(いっち)?
> 一致 = agreement, consistency , coincidence
> 
> It's a little different from *right* or *true*, though...


Thank you.

Is that pronounced ichi (like the numeral one)?


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## kamot

Isidore Demsky said:


> Is that pronounced ichi (like the numeral one)?



一致 is pronounced いっち(itchi), while １ is pronounced いち(ichi).
They are not same, but similar pronunciation.


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## Nino83

kamot said:


> They are not same, but similar pronunciation.


If I'm not wrong, it's a geminate consonant (a phonemic distinction that is present in Italian language too), isn't it?
いち = [iʧi] vs. いっち = [iʧʧi]
Searching on いち - Wiktionary I've found:
いち, 一, 壹, 弌, 壱 = one
市 = market, city
逸 = very, excellent
I've not found the other kanjis on jisho dictionary.


Isidore Demsky said:


> Is that pronounced ichi (like the numeral one)?


In English there are no geminate consonants, but when you have two equal consonants at word boundary, you pronounce it with more emphasis and longer, for example in "pea*ch ch*ocolate".


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## Isidore Demsky

karlalou said:


> I can't think of any.. maybe.. rather forcibly though, 律?
> It can read as りち(rhi-chi). It does not really mean 'right' or 'true', but 'law' or 'rule'.
> However, the dictionary says it can be read as ただし when it's a person's name. I am not sure if this is correct way of thinking, but the name ただし is usually written 正, and this letter means 'right'.


Is the name (正) pronounced rhi-chi or ichi


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## Isidore Demsky

kamot said:


> 一致 is pronounced いっち(itchi), while １ is pronounced いち(ichi).
> They are not same, but similar pronunciation.


So いっち is pronounced with a "t" sound (like if I were to say, in English, that a wool sweater is "itchi"), and いち is pronounced with a long e sound (as in "emu")?


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## karlalou

Isidore Demsky said:


> Is the name (正) pronounced rhi-chi or ichi


Nope.
What is the obsession about? 
When we say これが一番です, it often means this is the best, just like "This is the number one" in English. But if it's これが一（いち）です, it doesn't sound like saying "this is the number one" but just like "this is one".

By the way, we use the letter 正 to keep a temporary record when counting things because the letter conveniently has five straight lines.

りち or いっち usually sounds clearly different from いち to us, native speakers.


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## kamot

Isidore Demsky said:


> So いっち is pronounced with a "t" sound (like if I were to say, in English, that a wool sweater is "itchi"), and いち is pronounced with a long e sound (as in "emu")?



You can confirm the pronunciation by clicking speaker icon in the following pages.
一(いち)
一致(いっち)


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## Nino83

Isidore Demsky said:


> So いっち is pronounced with a "t" sound (like if I were to say, in English, that a wool sweater is "itchi"), and いち is pronounced with a long e sound (as in "emu")


No. Japanese has only 5 vowels, but has long and short consonants. These words have the same vowels but いっち has a double/long consonant, like the difference between いた (there was, existed) and いった (said, went).
The Japanese use っ (sokuon) to indicate long consonants. There is no "t" sound.
itchy = [ɪtʃi]
いち = [iʧi]
いっち = [iʧʧi] 
Using Merriam Webster notation:
itchy = ichē (single consonant)
いち = ēchē (single consonant)
いっち = ēchchē (double consonant)


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## Isidore Demsky

kamot said:


> 一致 is pronounced いっち(itchi), while １ is pronounced いち(ichi).
> They are not same, but similar pronunciation.


To me, いち ("one"-ichi) sounds like two syllables.

Is 一致 (agreement, consistency , coincidence) one or two syllables?



kamot said:


> You can confirm the pronunciation by clicking speaker icon in the following pages.
> 一(いち)
> 一致(いっち)



I can't get that link to work, but I can hear some audio here, and when I try listening to it, it sounds like only one syllable is being pronounced.

Am I hearing it wrong (and should it be pronounced as one or two syllables)?


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## frequency

We have kana, and one kana (one sound) is one syllable. For example, おはよう has four kanas, so it has four syllables.

I think いっち would be いっ・ち,  two syllables. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


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## karlalou

Isidore Demsky said:


> To me, いち ("one"-ichi) sounds like two syllables.


Yes, it has two syllables.


Isidore Demsky said:


> Is 一致 (agreement, consistency , coincidence) one or two syllables?


I consider it's also 2 syllables. The first syllable is like English 'it' without pronouncing 't', and the second syllable is like 'chi' of 'chicken' with the accent on the second syllable.

Wikipedia.jp says that it has 3 syllables, but the way of counting it is not based on the pronunciation, but on the number of letters when written in _kana._


Isidore Demsky said:


> I can't get that link to work, but I can hear some audio here, and when I try listening to it, it sounds like only one syllable is being pronounced.


I see two speaker icons appear on the second table, and none of them is about 一致; the first one is about the second letter 致. You are hearing it correct.


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## frequency

音節
_典型的には、1個の母音を中心に、その母音単独で、・・・
A syllable is typically made up of a syllable nucleus (most often a vowel) with optional initial and final margins (typically, consonants)._

So いっ・ち.


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## Schokolade

How about counting their morae? Like, いち has two morae, いっち has three morae.

Mora (linguistics) - Wikipedia


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## frequency

Schokolade said:


> いっち has three morae.


According to Wikipedia, if based on mora, icchi has three.


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## Schokolade

For audio clips, maybe you could try this website:
Pronunciation of 一 in Japanese
Pronunciation of 一致 in Japanese


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## Isidore Demsky

Thank you.


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## Isidore Demsky

Schokolade said:


> For audio clips, maybe you could try this website:
> Pronunciation of 一 in Japanese
> Pronunciation of 一致 in Japanese


I never have been able to get this site to work on my device, and I can't hear anything.

Do they sound alike?

(And would they sound the same to a western ear?)


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## Nino83

Isidore Demsky said:


> Do they sound alike?


No, in the second word the consonant is longer.
Some languages have neither long vowels nor long consonants (French, Spanish, Portuguese), others have long vowels but only short consonants (English, German, Dutch), and there are some languages that have long and short consonants (Japanese, Italian, Swedish, Finnish, Hungarian, Arabic).
The only examples I've found in English are backcountry and backcourt, which have a long /k:/.
Anyway, in very fast speech, when you don't have the time to put a  pause between two words, it happens that English speakers pronounce long consonants (even if you're not aware, since they are not phonemic in English).
Coming back to 一 and 一致, if you say, very very fast, without any pause, "E chart" and "each chart" the consonant "ch" is longer in the second phrase. I'm sure you pronounce them differently, is it right?
For more examples see John Wells:
John Wells's phonetic blog


Isidore Demsky said:


> (And would they sound the same to a western ear?)


They sound different to an Italian, Finnish, Swedish, Hungarian, Turkish ear.


Isidore Demsky said:


> I never have been able to get this site to work on my device


Try this one:
一  OJAD - 検索結果
一致  OJAD - 検索結果


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## citrustree

Isidore Demsky said:


> I never have been able to get this site to work on my device, and I can't hear anything.
> 
> Do they sound alike?
> 
> (And would they sound the same to a western ear?)


I don't think a Japanese person would mix up 一 and 一致, though they do sound kind of similar. 

From my experience of hearing native English speakers say Japanese words, I believe that words like 一 and 一致 must sound almost the same to them. As Nino83 says, in Italian this difference is important (I can think of baci and Bacci) and I believe Italian people wouldn't have any problem in distinguishing 一 and 一致 in Japanese.

The difference between 一 and 一致 is that there is a one-consonant worth of pause in 一致 ("っ"), whereas there's none in 一. With 一致, you suddenly stop after saying い (i) and pause briefly, in which you can imagine saying the consonant that follows (in this case "ch"), and then say ち (chi). With 一, you say the whole word without such a pause. This difference is very distinct and important in Japanese. 肩 (kata)　and 勝った (katta) have the same difference as 一 and 一致.


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## Nino83

citrustree said:


> there is a one-consonant worth of pause in 一致 ("っ"),



In phonetic terms it can be a glottal stop [ʔʨ] or an unreleased consonant [ʨ̚ ʨ]. The difference is that in the second case you put your thong in the right position, as if you wanted to pronounce that consonant but you hold that position for some time before pronouncing the consonant. I think in Japanese (like in Italian) long consonants are more similar to an unreleased consonant followed by a released consonant. Put your thong in the right position, wait a little and then release it.


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