# Use of verb ''Προλάβω ή Προλαβαίνω'' confusion



## goonhilly

I have come back to learning Greek but mainly rely on my Linguaphone course as at least it has some recorded passages to listen to at will and then endeavour to work out what is being said and if all else fails result to the translations provided. Some just confound me and I would appreciate some help on my confusion. L dont provide much help and it is very much take it or leave it. Their courses are now or appear to be very dated but I purchased this 2 years ago and cant afford any other owing to retirement now....
In the early stages I  gave up as the recordings were too fast for me but I decided after a relapse to keep at it and there is a glimmer of hope he says confidently but some Greek friends were encouraging recently and wandered why I stopped.

Anyway waffling away and back to the point.
This passage....

Εγώ φταίνω, μητέρα. Πέρασα με κόκκινο, για να προλάβουμε να έρθουμε στην ώρα μασ και με σταμάτατησε ένας τροχονόνος.

L translation is
'It is my fault, mother. I went through a red light in order to try to get here on time.......'

With the verb προβλάβω = I manage to, or I succeed in their short section on New Words!
I at first was quizzical and simply accepted but came back to after moving forward a couple of lessons and checked at most of the verb sites and see that there is nothing like this provided for this verb it being mainly translated as 'avert'

*προλαμβάνω*/προλαβαίνω, πρόλαβα, να προληφθώ, _165,166,200, irr, vt. avert, prevent, anticipate, forestall, wait (for the bus), πριν *προλάβει* να ρωτήσει, before he could ask_

I cant seem to see how L get to 'to try to' as they provide in their translation and or 'to try to succeed' but am I wrong as substituting the more common translation implies that perhaps it should be arrive late not on on time such as ' to avert coming late' for example.

I do have access to Ελληνικά Α but although far more upto date has even faster recorded passages that leave the beginner Α1/2 floundering.
Thus reverted to Linguaphone on the premise that some of the course was not stifled with old expressions such as later in one chapter for example-

'Όλοι οι άνθρωποι έχουν απόλυτη ανάγκη από αλλαγή και καθαρό αέρο.

translation given between young man and his girlfriend as 'all people have an absolute need of change and clean air!

Not very encouraging as simply not typical of young person communication even if they were 2 philosopher students out on a walk and cold.

It is not easy learning a language when presented with such stuff.

Sorry to waffle on.


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## dmtrs

Hi goonhilly
*Προλαβαίνω *is indeed the form that the verb *προλαμβάνω *(that exists since ancient times) took in modern Greek; it has a different meaning though -most of the time.
While *προλαμβάνω *is still widely used, meaning *prevent*, *προλαβαίνω* means *to manage to do something in/on time* (προλαβαίνω να τελειώσω = I manage to finish on time, προλαβαίνω το λεωφορείο = I [manage to] catch the bus; also: δεν προλαβαίνω να... = I don't have the time to...), in fact, being a different verb; it can also be used as a synonym to *προλαμβάνω *sometimes. Note that the non continuous tenses of the two verbs are identical in modern Greek (θα προλάβω, πρόλαβα, έχω/είχα/θα έχω προλάβει) although they are avoided as tenses of *προλαμβάνω*.



goonhilly said:


> 'Όλοι οι άνθρωποι έχουν απόλυτη ανάγκη από αλλαγή και καθαρό αέρ*α*".



*Καθαρό αέρα* here must not be understood as *clean air* but as *fresh air *(=need to go out).

Keep up the good work!


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## goonhilly

Thanks for this explanation and what was confusing me was the listing link on 'verbs tables' ( I often use) relates to the older form of the verb as you can see above in my link but also neatly fits in the modern version but no translation as Linguaphone and what you have kindly confirmed---and also in this one below where they list the older form separately and the modern form as follows

Conjugate On The Coolest Verb Conjugator | Cooljugator.com
BUT in both cases on cooljugator there is no translation as you have given along with Linguaphone.

Conclusion is I need a better link to modern verbs.

I  see following a browse today that alternate uses of the verb is actually given here on the forum at

Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com ie typing in the modern form.

I typed the verb in and a number of translations came up near to both uses of the verb but yours is the better understanding and thanks again.

I wandered if there is a better verb link somewhere on line that I have missed?


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## dmtrs

The following dictionary is Greek to Greek, but I believe your level of understanding is more than sufficient for such a resource. It also contains example phrases.
Check also the rest of the portal it's hosted on; MANY useful info on both modern and ancient Greek.

Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής

(The portal is also listed on the Greek resources suggestions section of this forum.)


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## velisarius

Your problem was that you couldn't make out what the first person of the verb was.

I think the WR dictionary provides pretty good translations and examples, though usually I have to look elsewhere for slang expressions.
προλαβαίνω - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com

If you aren't sure what form of the verb you should be looking up, it''s a good idea to type the first few letters of it into the dictionary search box and glance at the list headed  "Δείτε επίσης:" at the left of the dictionary page. 

The clickable links in blue show the words closest in spelling to what you've just typed in. Just click on the one(s) you think most likely. I'm not always sure of the spelling of  a word I vaguely remember seeing or hearing somewhere, so I find this feature very useful.


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## Helleno File

Προλαβαίνω is a lovely verb which my Greek class returns to from time to time. One word to express something so precise that takes several words in English. Δεν πρόλαβα! So short and says it all.

Perfectly explained by dmtrs of course. Can προλαβαίνω also mean catch up, e. g. someone who is walking ahead. I didn't know about the continued existence of προλαμβάνω for prevent. Is that different to αποτρέπω?
@ goonhilly - you're a hero!


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## dmtrs

Helleno File said:


> Can προλαβαίνω also mean catch up, e. g. someone who is walking ahead.



Yes, absolutely.



Helleno File said:


> I didn't know about the continued existence of προλαμβάνω for prevent. Is that different to αποτρέπω?



Although it can be very similar in use to προλαμβάνω, αποτρέπω means 'avert' -different actions but often with the same effect.


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## διαφορετικός

goonhilly said:


> Conclusion is I need a better link to modern verbs.


Maybe you like the English Wiktionary (it contains many Greek words) and / or the Greek Βικιλεξικό. Often one of them completes the other one.
Search results for "Προλάβω" - Wiktionary
προλάβω - Βικιλεξικό

There are other modern Greek verbs with the ending "λαμβάνω" or "λαβαίνω". The most frequent ones are probably the following 15 verbs. (One can also pretend that they are only 12 verbs, or even 9.)

The following 3 pairs have the same meaning for both forms:
λαβαίνω = λαμβάνω (take, receive)
απολαμβάνω = απολαβαίνω (enjoy, profit)
αναλαμβάνω = αναλαβαίνω (take over)

The following 3 pairs have different meanings for both forms:
καταλαβαίνω (understand) <> καταλαμβάνω (take, capture, occupy)
προλαβαίνω ("have enough time", "not too late") <> προλαμβάνω (_prevent_, anticipate)
περιλαμβάνω (comprise) <> περιλαβαίνω (scold; beat)

The following 3 verbs seem not to have a valid "-λαβαίνω" analogy:
συλλαμβάνω (grasp, _capture_)
επαναλαμβάνω (repeat)
συμπεριλαμβάνω (comprise as well)

Those who appear in pairs have the same aorist forms, e.g. προλαβαίνω <> προλαμβάνω: πρόλαβα.


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## dmtrs

διαφορετικός said:


> There are other modern Greek verbs with the ending "λαμβάνω" or "λαβαίνω".



I don't want to be disrespectful to Wiktionary (but I will be):
_προλαμβάνω_ does not mean _anticipate_; it means _prevent
συλλαμβάνω _means _grasp _(_understand_), but also _capture _(and it is more common with this meaning)


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## διαφορετικός

Don't blame Wiktionary - my translations are not (only) from there, but from different sources. Errors might have been introduced by my limited knowledge of the English vocabulary (and by my attempt to simplify the presentation).


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## dmtrs

I was just kidding. My sole intention was to make the corrections. 
Nice job with that categorization, by the way, διαφορετικέ.


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## διαφορετικός

Thank you, dmtrs. I have completed the relevant post with your suggested translations.


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## διαφορετικός

dmtrs said:


> _προλαμβάνω_ does not mean _anticipate_; it means _prevent_


In the "Pons" dictionary, I have found the following example for προλαβαίνω:
πρόλαβες τις επιθυμίες της (you anticipated her wishes)
Can this example not be expressed with προλαμβάνω? (Of course, in this example, the inflected form of the verb would be the same, because it is aorist.)


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## dmtrs

διαφορετικός said:


> In the "Pons" dictionary, I have found the following example for προλαβαίνω:
> πρόλαβες τις επιθυμίες της (you anticipated her wishes)
> Can this example not be expressed with προλαμβάνω?



In Oxford Dictionary I read:
anticipate: 
1. be aware of and prepare for (a future event) / regard as probable / look forward to
2. act as a forerunner or precursor of

I admit I was only aware of the definition 1c (basically) and 1b (more or less intuitively).

I understand the phrase "πρόλαβες τις επιθυμίες της" as: "you had already fulfilled her wishes" (which corresponds with meaning 1a, I believe); the past tense here could definitely derive from προλαβαίνω, to my opinion, but it's very doubtful it could derive from προλαμβάνω, unless it had an implication of avoidance, kind of preventing her from having such wishes.

In Longman Dictionary I find the examples "we don't anticipate many problems" for definition 1a (am I wrong to understand this rather as 'we don't expect' than 'we are not aware and prepared for'? -in this sense it is totally irrelevant to προλαμβάνω/προλαβαίνω) and "a good speaker is able to anticipate an audience's needs and concerns" which seems to me more relevant. With this meaning, anticipate corresponds to προλαμβάνω, having (as I understand it) the aforementioned sense of prevention.


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## Perseas

διαφορετικός said:


> The following 3 pairs have the same meaning for both forms:
> λαβαίνω = λαμβάνω (take, receive)
> απολαμβάνω = απολαβαίνω (enjoy, profit)
> αναλαμβάνω = αναλαβαίνω (take over)


Ι am not familiar with "απολαβαίνω" and "αναλαβαίνω". Probably they occur very rarely.



διαφορετικός said:


> προλαβαίνω ("have enough time", "not too late")


The v. "προλαβαίνω" is mainly transitive (eg._ Προλαβαίνω το τρένο_).



διαφορετικός said:


> In the "Pons" dictionary, I have found the following example for προλαβαίνω:
> πρόλαβες τις επιθυμίες της (you anticipated her wishes)
> Can this example not be expressed with προλαμβάνω?


I would say "προλαβαίνω τις επιθυμίες κάποιου".


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## dmtrs

Perseas said:


> Ι am not familiar with "απολαβαίνω" and "αναλαβαίνω". Probably they occur very rarely.



I share the exact same feeling. The forms appear in the Dictionary, but I doubt they exist in spoken or written language.




Perseas said:


> The v. "προλαβαίνω" is mainly transitive (eg._ Προλαβαίνω το τρένο_).



Very useful note. Even if it sometimes seems it's not, in fact the object is omitted to avoid repetition [Ήθελα να πάω αλλά δεν πρόλαβα (να πάω)].


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## διαφορετικός

dmtrs said:


> I understand the phrase "πρόλαβες τις επιθυμίες της" as: "you had already fulfilled her wishes" (which corresponds with meaning 1a, I believe); the past tense here could definitely derive from προλαβαίνω, to my opinion, but it's very doubtful it could derive from προλαμβάνω, unless it had an implication of avoidance, kind of preventing her from having such wishes.


Thanks for your evaluation.



dmtrs said:


> "a good speaker is able to anticipate an audience's needs and concerns" which seems to me more relevant. With this meaning, anticipate corresponds to προλαμβάνω, having (as I understand it) the aforementioned sense of prevention.


This is the meaning I meant. But I see that the verb "to anticipate"(without context) is a misleading translation of προλαμβάνω, because it has other main meanings which do not correspond to the Greek verb. And vice versa.



Perseas said:


> Ι am not familiar with "απολαβαίνω" and "αναλαβαίνω". Probably they occur very rarely.


Thank you for pointing this out.



Perseas said:


> The v. "προλαβαίνω" is mainly transitive (eg._ Προλαβαίνω το τρένο_).


I know - but it is difficult to make a general translation of that verb into English (or German) with a few words.


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## διαφορετικός

διαφορετικός said:


> Those who appear in pairs have the same aorist forms, e.g. προλαβαίνω <> προλαμβάνω: πρόλαβα.


I must correct this claim by a detail: the aorist of singular differs in the case of καταλαβαίνω / καταλαμβάνω: κατ*ά*λαβα / κατ*έ*λαβα. (Source: καταλαμβάνω - Βικιλεξικό )


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## Perseas

διαφορετικός said:


> I must correct this claim by a detail: the aorist of singular differs in the case of καταλαβαίνω / καταλαμβάνω: κατ*ά*λαβα / κατ*έ*λαβα. (Source: καταλαμβάνω - Βικιλεξικό )


You are right. I'd like just to add that this applies only to the aorist indicative. Aorist subjunctive and imperative of verbs "καταλαμβάνω" and "καταλαβαίνω" are identical (because the augment ε exists only in the aorist indicative).


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## Helleno File

The discussion has reminded me, for correction by native speakers.  I think "Με πρόλαβες!" expresses "That's what I would have said!" If with astonishment it could even be idiomatically "You took the words (right) out of my mouth!"


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## dmtrs

Helleno File said:


> "Με πρόλαβες!" expresses "That's what I would have said!"



Absolutely right.


"You took the words (right) out of my mouth!" (Helleno File)

In Greek it's almost identical: "Απ' το στόμα μου το πήρες!"


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## Helleno File

dmtrs said:


> Absolutely right.
> 
> 
> "You took the words (right) out of my mouth!" (Helleno File)
> 
> In Greek it's almost identical: "Απ' το στόμα μου το πήρες!"



Thanks for the idiomatic Greek version - I was hoping for that!


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## goonhilly

Wow just seen this post and will certainly take a bit of time to go through this great series of posts.

Thanks a lot


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## Αγγελος

Should we perhaps add that προφταίνω (πρόφτασα, να προφτάσω) means much the same thing as προλαβαίνω;

Δεν προφταίνω να τελειώσω τη δουλειά μου απόψε = I don't have enough time to finish my work tonight.
Δεν πρόφτασα να του μιλήσω -- έφυγε βιαστικά = I didn't have time to talk to him, as he left in a hurry.
Θα προφτάσεις να δεις τόσον κόσμο; = Will you have time to see so many people?

Προφταίνω κάποιον, on the other hand, usually means to overtake someone (also to get to him before he leaves).
Δεν τον προφτάσανε ζωντανό = They didn't get there in time before he died.


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## dmtrs

Αγγελος said:


> Should we perhaps add that προφταίνω (πρόφτασα, να προφτάσω) means much the same thing as προλαβαίνω;



Very useful remark.
We should add, I think, that the verb 'προφταίνω' and all these phrases Αγγελος wrote are kind of informal; we wouldn't use 'προφταίνω' in (very) formal language.


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## Αγγελος

dmtrs said:


> Very useful remark.
> We should add, I think, that the verb 'προφταίνω' and all these phrases Αγγελος wrote are kind of informal; we wouldn't use 'προφταίνω' in (very) formal language.



Well, προλαβαίνω isn't exactly formal, either.
Then again, επρόφθασα and προφθάσω (with a θ) were also used in moderate καθαρεύουσα. After all, φθάνω is ancient Greek as well!


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## dmtrs

Αγγελος said:


> Well, προλαβαίνω isn't exactly formal, either.





Αγγελος said:


> επρόφθασα and προφθάσω (with a θ) were also used in moderate καθαρεύουσα.





dmtrs said:


> kind of informal; we wouldn't use 'προφταίνω' in (very) formal language.



I agree; we are saying almost the same thing in different ways.
And there's the more informal/idiomatic synonym 'προκάνω' to tail the string of synonyms 'προλαμβάνω-προλαβαίνω-προφτάνω-προκάνω'.


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## Helleno File

Thanks peeps for a facinating discussion.  Can I double check προκάνω as a synonym as it is not in the WR dictionary, although προφταίνω is. Δεν πρόκανα/πρόφτασα να το τελειώσω are the same as δεν πρόλαβα and δεν πρόκανα/πρόφτασα can stand on their own. Both also have the meaning of "catch up".

One of the pleasures of learning Greek is that even when you think you've got something another aspect appears which changes it.  I did university level German and never had that experience!


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## Perseas

Helleno File said:


> Thanks peeps for a facinating discussion.  Can I double check προκάνω as a synonym as it is not in the WR dictionary, although προφταίνω is. Δεν πρόκανα/πρόφτασα να το τελειώσω are the same as δεν πρόλαβα and δεν πρόκανα/πρόφτασα can stand on their own. Both also have the meaning of "catch up".


"προκάνω" is dated. The others not. It's a long time since I last heard someone using it.
"προλαβαίνω" is the most common, "προφταίνω" is also used in many situations.


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## Αγγελος

dmtrs said:


> I agree; we are saying almost the same thing in different ways.
> And there's the more informal/idiomatic synonym to tail the string of synonyms 'προλαμβάνω-προλαβαίνω-προφτάνω-προκάνω'.



 'προκάνω' is ιδιωματικό (=dialectal), not 'idiomatic' in the usual English sense of the word. A former Communist Party leader, when asked why the Party had omitted doing I forget what, famously answered "δεν προκάναμε". That was probably the last time that verb was heard in public discourse.


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