# Icons of a country



## xarruc

Hi

Im looking to get some images that re instamty identifiable with a country. I want images that a native instantly recognises, but are subtle enough that a non-native might hesitate. The images have to work in Black and white.

The countries I need are: 

England, France, Spain and Catalunya:

So far I have the following ideas. Some are more obvious than others. All Ideas welcome! Particularly for France-

England:

The Queen's head (as on a stamp)
Robin Hood
The Angel of the North
Tony Blair
Big Ben
Guy Fawkes


Spain

Don Quiojote
Rejoneo
Guitarra
Bota
Flamenco
Toro
Zapatero
Jámon

Catalunya

Ase
Porró
Sardana
Sagrada Familia
(el President (quan sabem qui és (o ja és sabut?, no sé)
castellers

France:

Chirac
A cockeral
Garlic???


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## Namakemono

xarruc said:


> The countries I need are:
> England, France, Spain and Catalunya:


 
I see two countries and two regions. Anyway, the Eiffel Tower is the best symbol for France.


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## xarruc

You're right - three countries and a province. Must be all that brainwashing!. I actually was thinking "language"

Thanks for the eiffel - its perfect

Any French famous people with a good profile??


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## maxiogee

Napoleon / Charles De Gaulle


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## Namakemono

xarruc said:


> You're right - three countries and a province.


 
No. I said two countries and two regions. Neither Catalonia nor England are countries.



> Any French famous people with a good profile??


 
Napoleon Bonaparte.


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## xarruc

Corrrected again! I must be tired as I ddint notice the 2. I had thought, though, that England was still a "country" as was Scotland etc. I guess not. Although interestingly no one has corrected me before. Then again as the English have the habbit or interchanging england and Britain etc....


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## xarruc

Napolean ought to work. The hat's enough to make the bkack and white work well. Thanks


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## übermönch

The Cock and the French lilly are the more traditional French symbols...

Dali and Gaudi are probably the most famous Catalonians. The unfinished cathedral in Barcelona would go as a sign. 

An that's the most spanish thing there is.


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## Namakemono

I, too, was confused. Spaniards have the bad habit of calling GB as "England". 
I'm not sure whether the cockerel is the symbol of France or Portugal.

To Übermönch: Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.


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## Hockey13

Namakemono said:


> No. I said two countries and two regions. *Neither Catalonia nor England are countries*.


 
By whose standards? England is a country within the United Kingdom.

Champs-Élysées for France. Also, how about the famous Danton or Jean-Paul Marat. As a more infamous figure, Maximilien Robespierre might be the most known person to come out of the French Revolution. As a more subtle symbol...a red cap, a barricade on narrow streets, etc.


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## Anna980

I'm fairly sure England is _always _referred to as a country, not a Province - England, Wales and Scotland are all called the 'constituent countries' of the United Kingdom.


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## RAPHUS CUCULLATUS

xarruc said:


> Any French famous people with a good profile??



Brigitte Bardot


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## natasha2000

hehe Übermonch, especially with Monty Pythons and Bush playing the leading role...
*Catalonia,* very recognizable by a Catalan, but not so by a foreigner:
calçots y escaliv(b)ada
Pau Gasol
11 de septiembre (but not 2001)

*Spain *
tortilla y paella. 
Alonso y Pedrosa
La infanta Leonor (I guess there is no Spaniard who doesn't know the aspect of a young princess, but a lot of foreigners don't).
Ibiza hippy life/or otra cara de la moneda - noches locas a la "a ver quien aguanta más"
Catholic Kings Isabela and Fernando as well as Carlos V
Colombo

*England*
Iron lady and Churchil with his cigar
Richard the Lion's Heart
Stonehenge
Scherlock Holmes and Baker Street 21
Agatha Christie
Henry VIII
The Beatles and Rolling Stones
Tea at 5 o'clock

*France*
Pepe l'Piew (at least for me he is an association)
BB
French Revolution


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## übermönch

If we already have roubespierre, let's not forget Louis XIV, the guy thank whom europe was on raving for 150 years . Joan of Arc, Vircengetorix & Mme.Liberty are rather ascociated with France imho.


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## Hockey13

übermönch said:


> If we already have roubespierre, let's not forget Louis XIV, the guy thank whom europe was on raving for 150 years . Joan of Arc, Vircengetorix & Mme.Liberty are rather ascociated with France imho.


 
In that spirit, we shouldn't leave out the Palace of Versailles.


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## natasha2000

One thing more. About THE President of Catalynya you mention, Xarruc.

I think that THE President is, was and always be Pujol.

Otherwise, we cannot talk abot THE PResident when talking about Catalunya, more likely about three little leprichauns - tripartito.


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## natasha2000

Hockey13 said:


> In that spirit, we shouldn't leave out the Palace of Versailles.


 
Louvre and Mona Lisa neither. And when we're at it... Neither we can leave out Da Vinci Code, Lengua D'oc and catars... Three mousquetiers... And Sirano de Bergerac (Sorry for the wrong spelling. French is not my strong part)


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## ireney

May I just note that no one in this neck of the woods would hesitate answering to which country the following belong (although for England you would get -and some times rightly so "GB" for an answer)

The Queen's head (as on a stamp)
Robin Hood
Tony Blair
Big Ben
Iron lady and Churchil with his cigar
Richard the Lion's Heart
Stonehenge
Scherlock Holmes and Baker Street 21
Agatha Christie
Henry VIII
The Beatles and Rolling Stones
Tea at 5 o'clock

Don Quijote
Rejoneo
Flamenco
Toro

Chirac
Eiffel Tower
Napoleon / Charles De Gaulle
Champs-Élysées
Brigitte Bardot


The rest would give some a pause. I hesitate to actually propose something since I suppose if I know them many may know them too (like Alhambra or Petit Trianon for example). A Beefeater though is not as well known a symbol as Her Majesty and even Shakespeare's face is less known than W.C. for instance


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## natasha2000

We shouldn't forget about King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table and Excalibur, Camelot, Sir Lancelot and Lad Gwenavier...

PS: It's QUIJOTE or if you prefer QUIXOTE not QUIOJOTE. I suppose it was a "error de dedo" but it shouldn't be repeated


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## xarruc

Thanks to everyone. Some work better for me (e.g. Stonehenge will come out great in black and white,) than others, but it's interesting to see what we brainstorm as symbolic of a place.


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## LouisaB

Namakemono said:


> No. I said two countries and two regions. Neither Catalonia nor England are countries.


 
Namakemono, wars have been declared over lesser insults than this one!!  A country does not become a province because it occupies the same land-mass as others. If it did, Spain would be a province of what? France, perhaps? Or just the continent of Europe? Not to mention Denmark, of course, that well known province of Scandinavia... 
Let's try to use those polite words 'I think' occasionally, rather than an absolute 'No', shall we?

On icons, being English, I'm probably the least reliable guide to what's recognisable elsewhere as being English. I'd have gone for:
Big Ben
Stonehenge
A red post-box
A red double decker London bus
A policeman in that silly tall helmet
Churchill
Nelson
Henry VIII
Princess Diana
Not to mention football hooligans, of course.

I can't improve on the suggestions for Spain, I'm afraid.

For France, does it have to be a specific icon? If it does, then yes of course the Eiffel Tower or Napoleon. If you just wanted a good black and white image that ought to say 'France' to everybody, I'd go for the Robert Doisneau b/w photograph 'Le baisier de l'hôtel de ville'.


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## Namakemono

LouisaB said:


> Namakemono, wars have been declared over lesser insults than this one!!  A country does not become a province because it occupies the same land-mass as others.


 
Well, the name of the country is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", isn't it?


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## cuchuflete

No, Namakemono, that is the name of the kingdom.


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## übermönch

Indeed, UK _consists of several countries/nations_, just as any other international organization.


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## Hockey13

Namakemono said:


> Well, the name of the country is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", isn't it?


 
That is the name of the conglomeration of countries. It's a different political system and the name country has historical connotations...furthermore, they think of themselves as totally different countries.


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## May-Lynn

About France you can add :
- wine
- fashion
- food
- coffee and croissants
- Champagne
- Coco Chanel
- Riviera
- French fries
- cheese
- Jeanne d'Arc
- perfume


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## xarruc

Thanks everybody.

The best (for me) for France are:

Chirac
Wine and cheese
Eiffel / Palace of versailles /Champs-Élysées
Joan of Arc / Napolean

Other ideas:

berret
cockeral
French lilly
Fleur de lys (?)

The best for England

Robin Hood
Blair
Stone henge
Big Ben
Angel of north
Queens head
Guy Fawkes

Other ideas: 

Tube station sign
A red post-box
A red double decker London bus
A policeman in that silly tall helmet
Churchill
Nelson
Scherlock Holmes

Spain

Paella and tortilla wouldnt work and I'd rathre not use more people.

Catalunya:

Same, rather not use personalities if I can avoid it, although Dali would work well.
Escalivada or calçots wouldnt work either


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## natasha2000

Why, food wouldn't work? Then we have a serious problem, jejeje... One of the most important symbols of Spain and Catalunya is food...

Dali is too famous and it also can be identified with Spain too, and not only with Catalunya, so in the end you might have some misunderstandings. I vote for Gaudí, castellers and Jordi Pujol.

As far as Spain, maybe that tall comb that women put in their hairs, I don't know what's the name... Corrida and flamenco would work well, but I honestly doubt that a modern Spaniard would like to be identified with those so worn out symbols... Anyway, let them speak... Anyway, right now only people pass through my mind, and since you said you didn't want more people... I'll get back if I think of something new.


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## Sallyb36

Namakemono said:


> No. I said two countries and two regions. Neither Catalonia nor England are countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Napoleon Bonaparte.




Of course England is a country.


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## xarruc

To see what I am getting at, look at the images:

http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/chirac4.gif
http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/guitarra2.gif
http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/rejoneo3.gif
http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/jamon3.gif

Thats why a tortilla would look like a cake and a paella like a fryng pan

Although dated, Flamenco and Toros are still themes in the culture here. I know quite a few people who like bull-fighting but to be respectful of those who don't, choose not to discuss in public. If you listen to flamenco or more traditional Spanish music it has many references to las corridas. I hear many people listening to this type of music in my block of flats. In addition, I know people strongly against bullfighting who still hum pasodobles from time to time, or use bull-fighting based phrases. The point being you take the bullfight out of spain but not its legacy. Anyway, lets not get into this now. There are better forums for that.

I like the idea of the Spanish comb (peineta)

Also the inquisition if it could be made to work in such small image.

Other thoughts for catalunya - caga tió and caganers. come on people put your thinking barratines on!


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## Cecilio

natasha2000 said:


> As far as Spain, maybe that tall comb that women put in their hairs, I don't know what's the name...



They're called "peineta" in Spanish.


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## Sallyb36

For England you could use the London Eye.


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## Cecilio

I think one of the most outstanding contributions of Spain to the world's culture is in the field of painting. Some icons would be: Goya, Velázquez, Miró, Picasso, Dalí. Some people would include El Greco in this list, but I know that many Greeks would strongly disagree with this proposal.


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## Brioche

xarruc said:


> Hi
> 
> Im looking to get some images that re instamty identifiable with a country. I want images that a native instantly recognises, but are subtle enough that a non-native might hesitate. The images have to work in Black and white.
> 
> The countries I need are:
> 
> England, France, Spain and Catalunya:


 
At a guess, I'd say that great majority of speakers of English don't even know that Catalonia exists, and those who do, have only a vague idea of where it is. Most people would think more of Spain than Catalonia when shown a picture of Barcelona, or Gaudi's architecture.
I have no idea what _escalivada_ or _calçots_ are.

As with Big Ben, or a London bus - symbols of London, England or Britain?
Or the Eiffel Tower - symbol of Paris or France?
Leather pants and beer steins - symbols of Munich, Bavaria or Germany?


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## natasha2000

xarruc said:


> To see what I am getting at, look at the images:
> 
> http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/chirac4.gif
> http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/guitarra2.gif
> http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/rejoneo3.gif
> http://danielfield.freewebpage.org/logo/jamon3.gif
> 
> Thats why a tortilla would look like a cake and a paella like a fryng pan
> 
> !


 
I suppose this is your persona page where some pasword is needed, so all those lead to the same page: www.freewebpage.org 



> Although dated, Flamenco and Toros are still themes in the culture here. I know quite a few people who like bull-fighting but to be respectful of those who don't, choose not to discuss in public. If you listen to flamenco or more traditional Spanish music it has many references to las corridas. I hear many people listening to this type of music in my block of flats. In addition, I know people strongly against bullfighting who still hum pasodobles from time to time, or use bull-fighting based phrases. The point being you take the bullfight out of spain but not its legacy. Anyway, lets not get into this now. There are better forums for that.


I don't say that bulls and flamenco are NOT symbols of Spain, but I met so many Spaniards who hate being seen only through these symbols, mostly because it was the image Franco exported to the world, and Spain is so much more than toros and flamenco. But in the end, it is on you to decide.




> I like the idea of the Spanish comb (peineta)
> 
> Also the inquisition if it could be made to work in such small image.


Another myth. Although everyone thinks Spanish Inquisition was the worst, this is not true. Remember that the Templars were destroyed by French, that the word "pogrom" comes from Russian (I wonder why), and that crusaders who were mainly French, German and English made whole Jewish districts dissapear on their way to and from The Holly Land. I really don't think this would be a good idea, unless you want to fall into sterotypes... But then again, it's up to you.



> Other thoughts for catalunya - caga tió and caganers. come on people put your thinking barratines on


I think it's wonderful! This is so typical for Catalunya, so recognizable for a Catalan but not so recognizable for a foreigner, and this is as I understood, what you were looking for...


EDIT: I agree with Cecilio. Miró or something that looks like one of the paintings of Miró would be good as a symbol for Catalunya.


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## xarruc

You're right regarding the inquisition. I was just thinking of the monty python. Bad idea.

I couldn't agree more that Spaniards don't like to be considered as no more than toros and flamenco. Just like I dont have high tea at 5 (at least not very often!) My point was that they're not as obsolete as I thought they were and (were told by some here that they were) when I first came.

Thanks


PS the images work, but not as links. if you copy and paste the images into IE they *do* work. there's no password. its just freewebapge being funny. but then it is free.


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## natasha2000

Thaks for the tip. I saw the images. They're very small. Therefore, it must be something recognizable rather by its shape than by its content...


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## Namakemono

übermönch said:


> Indeed, UK _consists of several countries/nations_, just as any other international organization.


 
My bad. I thought the kingdom was one country.


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## natasha2000

Ok, guys, I think we have elaborated on the subject if England is a country or not. I also think that Namakemono has it very, very clear now, there is no need to give him a hard time any more.

Can we go back to the original question?

Icons of England, France, Catalunya and Spain.

Any more ideas?


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## Mei

Hi all there,

For me "El President" will always be Mr. Tarradellas (quoted as saying "Ciutadans de Catalunya, ja sóc aquí" "Citizens of Catalonia, I'm already here"). 

About Catalonia I can say: "caganer", "pa amb tomàquet",  calçots, escalivada, barretina, seques amb botifarra, all i oli...

And many more that I don't remember right now... 

Mei


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## xarruc

Just to say thanks to all who put forward ideas.

If you want to see the result on the website I am helping to build have a look at:

Mod Edit:  Please do not post links to personal websites.  Thank you.

The projects not finished so any more ideas are still welcome.

Interestingly I saw on the BBC webpage that the UK has some kind of similar icons project in the news today so this was more topical than I thought!

NOTE TO TONY BLAIR: stop wasting taxpayer's money on projects you can do for free on www.wordreference.com!


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## natasha2000

hahaha... El burro catalán! I have completely forgot about it! And it is SOOO typical! Good job, xarruc!


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## GenJen54

It seems as Xarruc has received plenty of answers to his *research* question, which according to the Cutural Discussions Guidelines, is out of this forum's scope. 



> c) Please *do not* start threads
> -- that can be answered by a simple yes or no;
> -- that would promote chat (i.e. "what should I get my French boyfriend for his birthday?);
> -- that ask for *homework or research* help, or where to find a resource;
> c) Please *do not* start threads
> -- that can be answered by a simple yes or no;
> -- that would promote chat (i.e. "what should I get my French boyfriend for his birthday?);
> -- that ask for *homework or research* help, or where to find a resource;
> -- that deal with romance or love (there are thousands of other places for such discussions.)
> -- that discuss literature, film, music or television


This thread is now closed. 

Thank you.

GenJen54
Moderator


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