# l'espoli no s'ha resolt



## catatonia.today

Hola i bona tarda! Aquí:

Sí que hi ha una necessitat. Jo, almenys, quan hem fet sortides amb grups, amb ateneus llibertaris que m’han demanat quins locals han estat centre de trobada cultural... i veus que continuen igual que les perifèries, com a espais tancats. *A Barcelona es podria fer un llistat, però no s’ha fet, no s’ha resolt democràticament l’espoli després de la Guerra Civil.* Hi ha gent que si que ho demana, perquè necessita culturalment poder elaborar el seu projecte de vida, necessita identificar-se i no li serveixen els referent actuals, o vol conèixer-ne més... I, és clar, els referents són els que són, són els que hi ha, tot i que estan lligats a un conflicte polític resolt a la força i, per tant, no clos.

quan diu que no s'ha resolt l'espoli...vol dir que...

com ho llegeixo is that the spoils from the war...i think what he's saying is that the places that were damaged, the things that were taken, weren't put right afterward, in a democratic way.

tot el paràgraf m'està confonent de fet. que em penseu?

petó, t


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## Namarne

catatonia.today said:


> com ho llegeixo is that the spoils from the war...i think what he's saying is that the places that were damaged, the things that were taken, weren't put right afterward, in a democratic way.


Estic d'acord amb la teva lectura. 


> tot el paràgraf m'està confonent de fet. que em penseu?


Tot i que tampoc acabo de copsar ben bé el que diu al principi, sobre tot (referència a les perifèries i els espais tancats),  crec que la idea general és que les persones d'ideologia llibertària, a l'hora de cercar referents en el passat amb els quals identificar-se, els costa molt de trobar-ne, degut a la ruptura traumàtica que suposà la guerra civil, i al llarg període de dictadura durant el qual aquests referents van ser esborrats.


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## catatonia.today

thanks namarne! 

la veritat, aquest text...és que hi ha tant que volen dir pero no ho diuen de manera explicit i em costa seguir cap a on van i posar-lo clar i catala a l'angles.

perque ningu no mai pensa en el pobre traductor a l'hora d'elaborar textos?


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## catatonia.today

com et sembla aixo ara per ara? i don't want to take too many liberties, but...

In Barcelona a list could be made, but it hasn't been. The spoils, what was plundered during the Spanish Civil War, was never put right in a democratic manner afterwards.


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## catatonia.today

aquí tot pel moment:

Yes, there is a need. I, at least, when we have gone on group outings with libertarian cultural associations, I have been asked which were the locales where cultural activity was centred -- and you see that they continue on the same as the outskirts, as closed-off spaces. In Barcelona a list could be made, but it hasn't been. The spoils, what was plundered during the Spanish Civil War, was never put right in a democratic manner afterwards. There are people who do call for this, because they need to be able to elaborate their life project culturally – they need to feel identified and the current referents are not useful or they want to know more. And, of course, the referents are the ones they are; they are what we have, even though they are bound to a political conflict settled by force and thus not resolved.

m'agradaria ser més clar, pero per mi l'original no és prou clar. creus que està bé?


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## Namarne

catatonia.today said:


> perque ningu no mai pensa en el pobre traductor a l'hora d'elaborar textos?


El món és injust, cruel i lleig, t.  


catatonia.today said:


> com et sembla aixo ara per ara?
> In Barcelona a list could be made, but it hasn't been. The spoils, what was plundered *during* the Spanish Civil War, was never put right in a democratic manner afterwards.


A mi em sembla bé, és clar que jo no domino l'anglès com tu.  De tota manera, pensa que al text diu "l'espoli *després* la Guerra Civil"... Jo diria que l'espoli va ser durant i després, però el text sembla que parla del posterior a la guerra. 


catatonia.today said:


> per mi l'original no és prou clar. creus que està bé?


L'original no és gaire clar, tens raó, i menys si hom no coneix les idees implícites (qui eren els anarquistes, què eren els ateneus llibertaris...); jo ho trobo força bé.


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## catatonia.today

Namarne said:


> De tota manera, pensa que al text diu "l'espoli *després* la Guerra Civil"... Jo diria que l'espoli va ser durant i després, però el text sembla que parla del posterior a la guerra.



hmm....

A Barcelona es podria fer un llistat, però no s’ha fet, no s’ha resolt democràticament l’espoli després de la Guerra Civil.

i que tal?:

The spoils, what was plundered, was never put right in a democratic manner after the Spanish Civil War. 

així...és una mica més ambigu de temps.


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## Namarne

Em sembla molt bona solució.


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## catatonia.today

thank you for halpz


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## betulina

A mi també em semblen molt bé les solucions que dónes. 

Només pensava això que dieu de l'espoli durant o després... crec que aquest "després" es refereix al fet de resoldre's, no a l'espoli en si. Potser si es referís a l'espoli diria "l'espoli *de* després de la guerra civil"... Entens el mateix, Nam?


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## Namarne

Doncs he pensat això mateix, però només quan he vist la darrera proposta de traducció de la nostra amiga.  
Crec que teniu raó, hauria de portar la preposició, realment ho havia interpretat jo malament. 
Veus, Tif? De vegades el conèixer allò que dèiem, el que no està expressat, també confon: jo m'he deixat portar pels casos que conec (on l'espoli va sersobretot "després", un cop acabada la guerra).


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## Orreaga

Hola:

I'm not sure about the redundancy of "the spoils, what was plundered", it doesn't seem necessary to define the word "spoils" in the translation.  How about something like, "the spoils of the Civil War have never (since) been redressed democratically."  The "després" doesn't really add anything since obviously the author is talking about the period since the war.

O.


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## catatonia.today

hi o.

see, what i was thinking...they use the word spoils, but to me, spoils are what is taken in a war. like pirate booty, hahah. and what i was feeling in the sentence and within the context was that they were referring more to places that have been damaged and lost what they had to offer in terms of history and culture.

so i was trying to use spoils, since they use it, but with plunder...it has that dual meaning, both of taking spoils and of ravaging an area. i felt like it added that.

maybe the places that were plundered?

you see, i'm also trying to be vague, because the text is rather meandering and not very clear; i don't want to go giving things meanings they don't have...


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## Orreaga

Yes, spoils are what is taken in a war and so is plunder. So if you decide _*espoli *_has more to do with damage than spoils/plunder then you can't use "what was plundered"... but even in context it seems to me that *espoli *is not that vague, it does refer to spoils or plunder.  Maybe you're thinking that "what was plundered" can refer to a place from which plunder was taken but I don't agree, to me it refers to _what_ was taken, *el botí*, the booty.  If the author wanted to write about places devastated by war I don't think she would use _*espoli *_but I'm not the expert there.

It also makes more sense to me if they mention *fer un llistat*, the list would be of things that were taken/missing, not a list of places from which plunder was taken.


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