# All Slavic languages: corn (maize - Zea mays)



## cr00mz

Hello

I was wondering about this word, corn, in Macedonian is pčenka except from Bulgarian, every Slavic language has it as kukuruz or some other similar form of the word, even Latvian and Lithuanian have a similar form of the word, even Hungarian has something similar, so I was wondering if anyone knows why Macedonian and Bulgarian have such a different all together word.

thanks for your help


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## Vulcho

Hello,

I suppose it is because Bulgarian and Macedonian were in a way "roofless". For a long time, all Slavs lived in 3 states - the Russian, Austrian, and Ottoman empires. In the first two the word was established in the dominant languages (Russian, Austrian German, and Hungarian) and from there was passed to the other languages in the empires. In Ottoman Europe things were different. There wasn't a standard Turkish language back then, and different Slavic, Turkish, Albanian, Greek etc. dialects had their own words. Bulgarian had around 10 different words in different parts of the country, and one of those was chosen for the standard language - "carevica". Similarly, Macedonians chose "pčenka" and the Serbs "kukuruz". This is my theory, but there could be some other reason.


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## yael*

Vulcho said:


> Similarly, Macedonians chose "pčenka" and the Serbs "kukuruz".


But kukuruz is a turcism. And it's also used in Slavic (and Baltic) countries that have never been a part of the Ottoman Empire... It's a very interesting question.


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## xpictianoc

It's an Ottoman Turkish. In modern Turkish corn is mısr, I'm not sure, my Turkish is still very weak but that word looks like Mısr which means Egypt and prabably is from Arabic. 
In Polish we have few words of Ottomanic or Persian origin so It isn't so unusually. It shows that corn in this part of Europe came from Ottoman Empire.


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## marco_2

The origin of the word (Polish: _kukurydza, _Russian: _кукуруза, _Ukrainian: _кукурудза _and so on) is obscure indeed because in Romanian we have a word _kukurus _(a spruce cone) and in Polish we have the names of other "hairy" plants like _kokorycz _or _kokornak._


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## Duya

yael* said:


> But kukuruz is a turcism.



Well, it isn't. HJP says "≃ _rus._ kukurúza, _polj._ kukurudza  			", but from there nobody seems to know for sure. Vasmer says "Трудное слово" and goes on to list several hypotheses, none particularly appealing. Which is strange, as the plant was hardly introduced to Eastern Europe before the late 16th century. The Romanian one, as stated by marco 2, looks most plausible to me, but then, how did Romanian influence a dozen Slavic languages simultaneously, and its contact with Russian is not so strong? 

Back to the topic somewhat: BCS has the term "pečenjak", derived from "peći" (to bake), referring to young corn ears, as used whole for baking on fire or cooking. I presume Macedonian "pčenka" is from the same root.


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## cr00mz

That's interesting, seems to be a mystery, but the word kukuruz is known in Macedonian right? what with being under Yugoslavia and all.


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## yael*

Duya said:


> Back to the topic somewhat: BCS has the term "pečenjak", derived from "peći" (to bake), referring to young corn ears, as used whole for baking on fire or cooking. I presume Macedonian "pčenka" is from the same root.


"Purenjak", as well, but referred only to the boiled sweet corn.


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## Marski

cr00mz said:


> That's interesting, seems to be a mystery, but the word kukuruz is known in Macedonian right? what with being under Yugoslavia and all.



It's known and sometimes (rarely) used, but it's a Serbism. 

Anyway, I'm far from an expert on the subject, but since the Macedonian word for wheat is pčenica, I'm guessing that's where the name pčenka might have originated.


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## fIvaNNa

> It's an Ottoman Turkish. In modern Turkish corn is mısr, I'm not sure, my Turkish is still very weak but that word looks like Mısr which means Egypt and prabably is from Arabic.



I remember my aunt who lives in the eastern part of Macedonia used "мисирка" for corn.


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## DenisBiH

fIvaNNa said:


> I remember my aunt who lives in the eastern part of Macedonia used "мисирка" for corn.



Interesting. We use _misirača_ as a (slightly colloquial) word for pumpkin, at least in western B-H (Bosanska Krajina). HJP also lists _misirka_, but I don't know that form.


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## bibax

> Anyway, I'm far from an expert on the subject, but since the Macedonian word for wheat is pčenica, I'm guessing that's where the name pčenka might have originated.


*пшеница*, пшено, pszenica, pšenice, pšenka, etc. (Triticum, wheat) is Proto/Pan/slavic, from the root *pich-* (*pьš-* reduced and palatalized before a front vowel). It is not clear to me why the š has been changed to č in Macedonian.


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## Duya

That makes more sense than my initial speculation on link with _pečenjak_. Still, it's a bit of strange coincidence that _pečenjak_ (< _peći_, "bake", according to HJP) and _pčenka_ (< *pьš) are really independent developments, as the discussion so far suggests. The term "pečenjak" for young corn is much more common in Bosnia and Croatia than in Serbia (I suppose many Serbians would not know the meaning), so that makes the potential etymological link between the two even less plausible.


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## iobyo

bibax said:


> *пшеница*, пшено, pszenica, pšenice, pšenka, etc. (Triticum, wheat) is Proto/Pan/slavic, from the root *pich-* (*pьš-* reduced and palatalized before a front vowel). It is not clear to me why the š has been changed to č in Macedonian.



It's just a sound change peculiar to Macedonian. It also occurred with _ps-_: _пцуе _(compared with Serbian _psovati_ and Bulgarian _псувам_).


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## jazyk

Something similar happens with the Czech word _lepší_, better, which many people pronounce as _lepčí_.


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## iobyo

jazyk said:


> Something similar happens with the Czech word _lepší_, better, which many people pronounce as _lepčí_.



Interesting. I don't want to go off topic, but does this also happen morpheme-initially?


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## jazyk

Not as far as I know.


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## ilocas2

Czech:

*kukuřice*


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