# Book of Good Love



## gred

Can someone tell me the latin for "Book of Good Love" (as in Libro de Buen Amor)?

Also, what would the nouns be for "restorer" and "searcher"?

thanks in advance for any help


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## jazyk

Book of Good Love = Boni Liber Amoris, but you could play around with the others (Liber Boni Amoris, Boni Amoris Liber). I possibly chose the fanciest wording.

Restorer = restitutor, reconciliator
Searcher = inquisitor, investigator

But more context would certainly help.


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## gred

Thanks for such prompt assistance.  I know no Latin, but was looking for what would be the most appropriate Latin equivalent for the title of a Medieval Spanish book of poetry called the Libro de Buen Amor.  It is an interesting book from 1330 that the scholars and critics still cannot agree as to the author's motives - to portray Good Love as the love of God that leads to salvation, to portray Good Love as earthly "crazy love" and sex, to poke fun at the clerics of the day that were being told they could not have concubines, to be didactic on morals, or some mixture of all of those.  With that additional info, maybe you can confirm the first of the suggested titles is most appropriate.

On restorer I was guessing the meaning of "RESTITVTOR" on the back of a Roman coin for Hadrian, commemorating his visit to HISPANIA in 122 AD.

For searcher, I was looking for the word that would be used in ancient Latin to refer to either a searcher for treasure (ie treasure hunter) or a searcher for Good Love, whatever that person might take that to be.

thanks again


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## jazyk

For searcher I suggest _explorator_ then. I think the rest is good.

Jazyk


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## gred

thanks again.  If you don't mind a dumb question, what is the difference between Amoris and Amor?


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## jazyk

Amor is nominative (case of the subject) and vocative (when you call someone/something).
Amoris is genitive (case of the possessor): of love.

Very roughly, of course.


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## gred

So then, a "searcher for good love" might be "explorator de boni amor"?

I think that is my last question on this subject - thanks


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## jazyk

No, _explorator boni amoris, _but here I think _boni __perquisitor __amoris _collocates better. _De_ wasn't used in Latin as it is in Romance languages (Romanian doesn't use it that much either). It meant _about, concerning _and required the ablative case.


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## gred

Again, pardon my lack of knowledge of latin, but wouldn't "_boni __perquisitor __amoris" _be more like "good seeker of love" and a "seeker of good love" would be more like "perquisitor boni amoris"?  That's a guess based on the earlier "_explorator boni amoris".  _Thanks for your patience - gred


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## Joca

Hi Jazyk

I may be wrong, but I have been thinking about our friend's request. I think that actually a better translation should start from: (the) book about good love.  I mean, rather than using the Genitive (of), you'd use the Preposition De meaning about, concerning. Thus:

*Liber de Bono Amore*

I think that the Genitive would be ok if it stood for a characteristic of the book, not about its subject, as I think is the case. 

Let me hear from you.

JC


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## jazyk

I totally agree with you, Joca. The thing is that Book _of _Good Love (and the entire concept, to tell you the truth) doesn't make much sense to me, so I thought it was safer to translate it as literally as possible so the chances I would fall into an error would be slimmer.


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## gred

From what you've both said, I think *Liber de Bono Amore *does capture what I was originally looking for - an equivalent title.  Again, the book is about love, with material from Ovid and other earlier authors, fables, praises to Mary and God, as well as seductions and earthly love.  The author makes it clear that one can find what one looks for in his book - either godly love or earthly love - much as the Greek and the Roman who have a debate with sign language and misinterpret each other's signs.  They each see what they want to see, as we all do.

What I am doing is making up a coin, modeled after Roman coins of Hadrian with a representation of Hispania but wanted the reverse legend to reflect something of this *Book of Good Love.*  But during the discussion, I think I like "_seeker of good love" _better than the actual title, to describe a person who is looking for what good love is.

Jazyk - I think your word _perquisitor_ is good for seeker, but I am unclear as to the word order, for the "good" to describe the love, not the seeker? 

"_boni __perquisitor __amoris" or _"perquisitor boni amoris"?

I shared the story of the Greek and Roman debate for Hispanic Heritage at work, and if either of you are interested I could send the excerpt in a pdf - gred


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## Whodunit

gred said:


> Jazyk - I think your word _perquisitor_ is good for seeker, but I am unclear as to the word order, for the "good" to describe the love, not the seeker?
> 
> "_boni __perquisitor __amoris" or _"perquisitor boni amoris"?


 
You have to bear in mind that Latin is totally different from English. 

The word order in Latin is nearly free, which makes it often hard to translate into modern languages. You have to translate (as a beginner) "block by block." In your short sentence "perquisitor boni amoris," the blocks are "perquisitor" and "boni amoris." You can play around with the word order, but the translation (and the meaning in most cases) remains the same. It's just for stylistic reasons to put the verb to the beginning or use hyperbaton.

Jazyk did the same here:

perquisitor boni amoris = literally: seeker of good love
amoris boni perquitor = literally: of love good seeker
...

I like the use of hyperbaton in Latin. It kind of gives the feel of how the Romans then spoke.

By the way, I would have chosen "investigator" for "seeker," because that's the word I've learned to use for people who search for some treasure (like Archimedes's sepulcher).


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## gred

Wow - it took me years to learn Spanish, and I'm past the years of easy language learning, so Latin is beyond me, but I appreciate everyone's help.

Well, I think I know what I need the coin to say.  Love is the most important word, so for hyperbaton or word order, it should be first.  And that it is good love is second most important, so good next, and then I like searcher in the sense of searching for treasure (people who search for some treasure (like Archimedes's sepulcher)), so inquisitor last.

That gives me a coin inscription of *AMORIS BONI INQUISITOR.*


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## Joca

gred said:


> Wow - it took me years to learn Spanish, and I'm past the years of easy language learning, so Latin is beyond me, but I appreciate everyone's help.
> 
> Well, I think I know what I need the coin to say. Love is the most important word, so for hyperbaton or word order, it should be first. And that it is good love is second most important, so good next, and then I like searcher in the sense of searching for treasure (people who search for some treasure (like Archimedes's sepulcher)), so inquisitor last.
> 
> That gives me a coin inscription of *AMORIS BONI INQUISITOR.*


 
Hi Gred

My Latin is still feeble, you know. Anyway, I would rather say *petitor* instead of *inquisitor*. I may be wrong, but inquisitor reminds me more of an investigation, not of a search. Therefore: *Boni petitor amoris*, or *Amoris boni petitor*. Former sounds best, imo.

Back to Spanish, shouldn't the title read *Libro del Buen Amor*?

JC


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## Surinam del Nord

Joca said:


> Hi Gred
> 
> 
> 
> Back to Spanish, shouldn't the title read *Libro del Buen Amor*?
> 
> JC


 
You're right, that's its name.


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## gred

Well, most of the books I have and most of the web sites I have visited say Libro *de* Buen Amor. This title was only given to the book about 90 years ago, so its not the original title. If you do a search at the Library of Congress, there are dozens and dozens of books with "de" and only four with "del".

 For those that want to know more about the book here is a link to the Spanish wikipedia entry on the Libro de Buen Amor

(not allowed)

And here is a huge bibliography on the book by an American professor:

(not allowed)

But most important for me is that the book does not present a position of one distinct good love, as in THE good love, but instead many possibilities. For that reason I prefer "de" not "del".

Thanks for everyone's input (sorry if the links don't translate right to links) - gred

I can't post links yet, under 30 posts


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## Surinam del Nord

gred, creo que tienes razón. Aunque existen ambas versiones, la que tú propones es más habitual y está mejor refrendada.



gred said:


> I can't post links yet, under 30 posts


 
Bueno, yo sí puedo:


http://www.bne.es/cgi-bin/wsirtex?F...TE=0007700009904&ISN=01454737&TOT=003&NUM=002


http://www.bne.es/cgi-bin/wsirtex?F...TE=0007700009621&ISN=01454737&TOT=003&NUM=003


Son enlaces al catálogo de la Biblioteca Nacional. Aparte de estos enlaces, tienen 212 publicaciones modernas con "de" y sólo 56 con "del".

También en la página de Cátedra, que es una editorial que publica las grandes obras de la literatura española, y tal, aparece como "Libro de Buen Amor".


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## gred

Surinam del Nord - glad you agree.  While we are at it, do you have an opinion on what the intentions of the author Juan Ruiz were in writing the book?

I'm not sure if its polite to talk in other than English or Latin on this board, but yo vivia en Madrid durante diez anos y intento volver cada ano durante un mes.  Voy este ano al final de Mayo / principios de Junio.

saludos - gred


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## Surinam del Nord

gred said:


> Surinam del Nord - glad you agree. While we are at it, do you have an opinion on what the intentions of the author Juan Ruiz were in writing the book?
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I can´t, for I have not read it.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if its polite to talk in other than English or Latin on this board,
> 
> 
> Yes, I should have written English, long as the others were doing so.
> 
> 
> but yo vivia en Madrid durante diez anos y intento volver cada ano durante un mes. Voy este ano al final de Mayo / principios de Junio.
> 
> 
> Buena época para venir, probablemente ya con demasiado calor. Hasta pronto.
> 
> 
> saludos - gred


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## gred

Well, let me describe how I see it then.  It is not a satire, although some of it is satirical - about the clerics of his time (1330).  Most scholars consider it didactic, that there was an intent to give lessons for morals and how to live.  He used material from Ovid's the Art of Love, and other early texts, including various fables with animals.  He also has praises to Mary and to God and I think that he was seriously religious, just that in his time that did not preclude talk of sex or satirical humor.  There are varous tales of his (the book is written like an autobiography) love affairs, from his seductions to his rape by some mountain girls (the girls rape him).

There is a good English translation in paperback from Everyman's books.  There is a good English description here (now I can post links) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Good_Love

The one person who wanted to read the tale of the debate between the Greek and Roman enjoyed it - offer still stands - gred


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