# 三楼



## dojibear

The US and the UK usually number floors differently. You see this on elevator buttons (where "G" is "ground floor"):

G 1 2 3 4 5 6 (more common in the UK)
G 2 3 4 5 6 7 (more common in the US)

So the floor above "ground floor" is floor #2 in the US, but it is floor #1 in the UK. Which numbering is used in China? 

比如我住在三楼。“三楼”是第三层还是第四层？


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## yuechu

In the apartment buildings and office buildings (skyscrapers, etc.) I've been to in Mainland China (not Hong Kong), I believe that it was similar to how it is in the US. (G(=1) 2 3, etc)

I haven't been to China for many years though. Let's see what others say!


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## SimonTsai




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## Jake_Chan

dojibear said:


> 比如我住在三楼。“三楼”是第三层还是第四层？


三楼是第三层。

[1 2 3 4 5 6 7] is most common.

[G 2 3 4 5 6 7] can be seen in hotels or office buildings situated in central business districts.


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## SimonTsai

In Mandarin, we number storeys and not floors. For a three-storey building, we have 第一樓, 第二樓, and 第三樓.


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## AquisM

Being a former British colony, Hong Kong uses British numbering. The ground floor is called 地下 in Chinese.

In older buildings (pre-1970's? Couldn't find much information online), you often see _both_ systems in place, with the American/Chinese system being used for Chinese and the British system for English. For example, the third storey would be labelled "2/F 三樓". As you can imagine, this is incredibly confusing, so newer buildings use British numbering for both languages.


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## SuperXW

Jake_Chan said:


> 三楼是第三层。
> 
> [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] is most common.
> 
> [G 2 3 4 5 6 7] can be seen in hotels or office buildings situated in central business districts.


Mainland ↑



SimonTsai said:


> In Mandarin, we number storeys and not floors. For a three-storey building, we have 第一樓, 第二樓, and 第三樓.


Taiwan ↑
(not in Mainland/Hong Kong)



AquisM said:


> Being a former British colony, Hong Kong uses British numbering. The ground floor is called 地下 in Chinese.
> 
> In older buildings (pre-1970's? Couldn't find much information online), you often see _both_ systems in place, with the American/Chinese system being used for Chinese and the British system for English. For example, the third storey would be labelled "2/F 三樓". As you can imagine, this is incredibly confusing, so newer buildings use British numbering for both languages.


Hong Kong ↑
(Not in Mainland/Taiwan)
By the way, Hong Kong's 地下 = Mainland 一楼; Hong Kong's 地庫一層 = Mainland 地下一层
【Short評．上】香港商場樓層亂到暈　 UG/LG/LB迷魂陣係乜玩法？


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## elroy

SimonTsai said:


> we number storeys and not floors.


I don't understand what you mean.  I thought "storey" was just a British spelling of "story," and in US English, "story" and "floor" are synonyms.  A three-story building is a three-floor building.


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## skating-in-bc

elroy said:


> "story" and "floor" are synonyms.


Well, in Vancouver, Canada, floors containing the number 4 are often skipped.  Many high-rise buildings in Vancouver do not have the fourth "_floor_" although they have the fourth "_story_".


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## elroy

skating-in-bc said:


> Well, in Vancouver, Canada, floors containing the number 4 are often skipped. Many high-rise buildings in Vancouver do not have the fourth "_floor_" although they have the fourth "_story_".


A floor and a story are the same thing.  A building with four stories is a building with four floors.  Whether the fourth floor is _identified as such_ or _called_ "the fourth floor" is a different story (no pun intended ).  It's still the fourth floor.


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## SimonTsai

elroy said:


> I don't understand what you mean. I thought "storey" was just a British spelling of "story,"


I thought that the nth floor precisely is
​Fn = {(x, y) | y = n − 1} (UK)​Fn = {(x, y) | y = n − 1} (US)​
whereas the nth storey is

Sn = {(x, y) | n − 1 ≤ y < n}​
If you are *on* the nth floor (American English intended), then you are n − 1 storeys high.

(But I am not an English native speaker, so I may be wrong.)


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## elroy

I'm confused by your mathematical notation.  I tried to understand it but failed.  Could you please express this in ordinary language, with an example if possible?

In any event, at least in *American English*, they are the same thing.  If you're on the fifth floor, you're on the fifth story.


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## AquisM

I didn't understand the mathematical notation either. However, you said:


SimonTsai said:


> If you are *on* the nth floor (American English intended), then you are n − 1 storeys high.


I'm confused as to how you arrived at this conclusion, since your diagram above suggests the American system is the same as the Taiwanese system, i.e., 4th floor = 四樓. Or have I misunderstood your diagram?


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## skating-in-bc

elroy said:


> A building with four stories is a building with four floors.


Well, a building with 20 stories may be a building with 23 floors.  For example:

Urban Toronto: "_buildings may omit the thirteenth floor along with all floors with the digit four in them. That occurs often in Toronto, such as at the 20-storey Tango2 which was marketed as having 23 floors_."


elroy said:


> Whether the fourth floor is _identified as such_ or _called_ "the fourth floor" is a different story (no pun intended ).  It's still the fourth floor.


But my point is:
While "story" always refers to the physical floor, "floor" may be just a name. 
The 20-story Tango2 was marketed as having 23 floors. ==> It makes sense to me.
The 20-floor Tango2 was marketed as having 23 stories. ==> It sounds like a fraud to me.


dojibear said:


> The US and the UK usually number floors differently. You see this on elevator buttons (where "G" is "ground floor"):
> 
> G 1 2 3 4 5 6 (more common in the UK)
> G 2 3 4 5 6 7 (more common in the US)


This is about "naming" of each floor, not about the actual number of physical floor.  


dojibear said:


> 比如我住在三楼。“三楼”是...


三楼 is a name here.


dojibear said:


> “三楼”是第三层还是第四层？


"第三层还是第四层" refers to the "story" (or physical floor).


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## SimonTsai

AquisM said:


> I'm confused as to how you arrived at this conclusion [...]. Or have I misunderstood your diagram?


I am sorry for the confusion. Does this help? (Assume the American system.)


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## elroy

skating-in-bc said:


> The 20-story Tango2 was marketed as having 23 floors. ==> It makes sense to me.
> The 20-floor Tango2 was marketed as having 23 stories. ==> It sounds like a fraud to me.


These sentences are 100% identical and are saying the exact same thing.  They key here is "marketed as," which indicates a discrepancy in either case.



skating-in-bc said:


> While "story" always refers to the physical floor, "floor" may be just a name.


Please see my earlier comment:


elroy said:


> A floor and a story are the same thing. A building with four stories is a building with four floors. Whether the fourth floor is _identified as such_ or _called_ "the fourth floor" is a different story (no pun intended ). It's still the fourth floor.



Let's say a building has 20 *levels* (using a neutral term to avoid confusion), and the 13th level is not included in the counting.  You could not say "This building has 21 floors."  You could say "This building doesn't have a 13th floor," but here this must be understood as a reference to the actual numbering:

What you're saying is: This building doesn't have *a floor that is called the 13th floor*.
You are not saying: This building doesn't have *an actual 13th floor*.

The building does have a 13th floor no matter what we choose to call it.

Let's say I have a bed-and-breakfast with 15 rooms, but for some reason, they are not numbered 1-15 but 1-5, 7-10, 14-17, and 21.  Despite this unusual numbering, I still have 15 rooms, not 21 rooms!  I can say "There is no Room 6" but I couldn't say "There is no sixth room."  The latter would mean there are only 5 rooms or fewer. This example is clearer because "Room 6" is obviously a name/label only.  The confusion with the floor example is that "the 13th floor" *can be* a name/label OR a reference to an actual level.  When we say "The building doesn't have a 13th floor," it's the former, but it's not obvious from the words themselves.  The only reason we generally say this and not "The building doesn't have a Floor 13" is simply a matter of usage.  For whatever reason, "Floor 13" is not common (unlike "Room 6"), but "Floor 13" is certainly possible and could be used.  I reckon if "Floor 13" were the standard way to label it, we would not be having this conversation.



skating-in-bc said:


> Well, a building with 20 stories may be a building with 23 floors.


Absolutely not; see above.

A 20-level building that skips 3 numbers and ends with 23 does not have 23 floors.  It still has 20 floors; they're just not numbered consecutively.

We must not confuse "23 floors" (plural) with "a 23rd floor" (singular)!

*The building has 23 floors.*  This is *wrong* no matter how the levels are numbered.
*The building doesn't have 23 floors.*  This is *correct* no matter how the levels are numbered.

However:

*The building has a 23rd floor. */*
The building doesn't have a 23rd floor. */**

Due to the ambiguity of "an nth floor," discussed above,* both* of these apparently contradictory statements are possible depending on what we mean!  The first one makes sense if we are referring to labels only; the second one makes sense if we are referring to physical levels.

In the US educational system, the possible letter grades you can get are A, B, C, D, and F.  Although E is skipped, there are still five categories, not six just because F happens to be the sixth letter of the alphabet.

To give an extreme example, let's say I had a building of three levels and I numbered them 1, 50, and 100.  There can be no disagreement that "The building has 100 floors" would be fantastically, utterly absurd.  Saying that a 20-level building "has 23 floors" is no less absurd just because 23 is closer to 20.  Marketing folk may capitalize on this difference for their purposes, but this does not change the linguistic facts.


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## AquisM

SimonTsai said:


> I am sorry for the confusion. Does this help? (Assume the American system.)
> 
> View attachment 74353


Ah, I see. It seems to me you are under the impression that "floor" in "1st floor", "2nd floor", etc. refers only to the physical floor that marks the bottom of a level, while a "storey" is the space bounded by the floor and the ceiling. This is not the case. In common parlance, "floor" = "storey" = 樓層. The ceiling of the second level 二樓天花板, for example, can also be referred to as the "second floor ceiling".


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## elroy

Yes, "floor" in this sense is an example of *synecdoche*, where a *part* is used to represent the *whole*.  "floor" is one part of the level, but is used to refer to the entire level.


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## SimonTsai

打地鼠時間！屢屢犯錯、頻頻丟臉，被打被電成癮的受虐狂土撥鼠 (我) 發問：


elroy said:


> A three-story building is a three-floor building.


I have the impression that _a three-storey building_ is the commoner expression of the two. Is that true?


> If you're on the fifth floor, you're on the fifth story.


I have the impression that _being on the fifth floor_ is the commoner expression of the two. Is that true?


AquisM said:


> In common parlance, "floor" = "storey" = 樓層.


Now you used the equal sign, does that mean that _storey_ can refer precisely to the physical floor as well?


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## elroy

SimonTsai said:


> I have the impression that _a three-storey building_ is the commoner expression of the two. Is that true?


In my experience, yes.



SimonTsai said:


> I have the impression that _being on the fifth floor_ is the commoner expression of the two. Is that true?


In my experience, yes.



SimonTsai said:


> Now you used the equal sign, does that mean that _storey_ can refer precisely to the physical floor as well?


No.  You can call the third story the third floor, but you can't call the part you step on a story.

I live on the third floor. = I live on the third story.

I spilled some wine on the floor. 
I spilled some wine on the story.


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## SimonTsai

elroy said:


> You can call the third story the third floor, but you can't call the part you step on a story.


As expected. Thanks.

It may be worth noting that, in Mandarin, we rarely (if ever) say, '三樓*上*  有很多吃的'; we typically say, '三樓有很多吃的', or on occasion, '三樓*裏面*  有很多吃的'.


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## AquisM

SimonTsai said:


> Now you used the equal sign, does that mean that _storey_ can refer precisely to the physical floor as well?


No, as elroy pointed out. I didn't mean the two words are exact synonyms. Their meanings only overlap in the context of "1st floor", "2nd floor", "this skyscraper has 100 floors" etc., when we refer to the levels of a building.


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## elroy

Similarly, you can't say you read a floor. 

(Well, that example only makes sense if you assume US English spelling.)


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## dojibear

SimonTsai said:


> Does this help?


The diagrams in post #3 and post #15 use different systems.

In post #3 the US floor above the blue line is "the *2n*d floor". The corresponding rectangle in Chinese is marked 1 (一)
In post #15 the US floor above the black "ground" line is "the *1st* floor". The corresponding green Chinese is marked 1 (一)

So no, it doesn't help. EDIT: I was confused. Post #26 explained.


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## dojibear

SimonTsai said:


> This is about "naming" of each floor, not about the actual number of physical floor.


Correct. I often see sentences like 在八楼 ("on the 8th floor").

But I think that really means "the floor called 8", not "the 8th floor".
我想这个是”八楼“的名字的层，不是第八的层。


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## SimonTsai

dojibear said:


> In post #3 the US floor above the blue line is "the *2n*d floor". The corresponding rectangle in Chinese is marked 1 (一)


At first, I mistakenly thought that the 2nd floor in US English refers precisely and exclusively to 二樓地板 (which corresponds to the red line right above the red text '2nd floor' in post 3, in the US case). I guess that this is the cause of your confusion.

All in all, now I know


elroy said:


> "floor" is one part of the level, but is used to refer to the entire level.


I think that Aquism summarised it correctly:


AquisM said:


> the American system is the same as the Taiwanese system, i.e., 4th floor = 四樓.


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## dojibear

dojibear said:


> G 1 2 3 4 5 6 (more common in the UK)
> G 2 3 4 5 6 7 (more common in the US)


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (also used in the US)

I'm sorry if I was not clear. In the US, "G" and "1" are the same. So the ground floor of a building is both "G" and "1". 

The elevator button for that floor might say:
- 1
- G (for "ground floor")
- L (for "lobby")


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## dojibear

SimonTsai said:


> which corresponds to the red line right above the red text '2nd floor' in post 3, in the US case


In the picture in post #3, the red text "2nd floor" labels *the line *above that text,
and means that line and the rectangle above it (the rectangle with "3rd floor" in it)?

That was my confusion. I assumed that the red text labelled *the rectangle *it was in.


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## SimonTsai

dojibear said:


> In the US, "G" and "1" are the same. So the ground floor of a building is both "G" and "1".


You made it very clear. It's me (欠揍的土撥鼠) that oversimplified the US system.

In Taiwan, in my experience, the numbering almost always starts with 1 and not G. In office buildings, you will be more likely to hear '一樓到了' than '大廳到了'. ('地面到了' sounds distinctively ridiculous: It sounds like you are back from a space trip.)


dojibear said:


> the red text "2nd floor" labels *the line *above that text,


Yes, this is what I mean*t*. I understood _floor_ incorrectly when I drew the diagramme.


> and means that line and the rectangle above it (the rectangle with "3rd floor" in it)?


Yes, this is what _floor_ actually *is*. As Aquism said,


AquisM said:


> In common parlance, "floor" = "storey" = 樓層.


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## Deinonychus

In mainland China, 三楼 means 3rd floor in the US method.
Ground floor is always refered to as 一楼 as far as I know.


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## stephenlearner

SimonTsai said:


> In Mandarin, we number storeys and not floors. For a three-storey building, we have 第一樓, 第二樓, and 第三樓.


This "第" sounds strange to me. I hardly ever say it.


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## SimonTsai

stephenlearner said:


> This "第" sounds strange to me. I hardly ever say it.


You are right that usually, we'd simply say, '我住十八樓', or '美食街在地下二樓'. But I think that there are occasions on which the emphatic 第 may be used; for example,

這棟公寓也才五樓，其中三樓都是她的：她買了第三第四第五，她住第五，三四給小王住。


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## dojibear

SimonTsai said:


> You are right that usually, we'd simply say, '我住十八樓',


也有没有人说:

我住在十八楼 
我住在十八楼里 
我住在十八楼里面


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## stephenlearner

dojibear said:


> 也有没有人说:
> 
> 我住在十八楼
> 我住在十八楼里
> 我住在十八楼里面


The first is normal. The second is not good. The last one is very bad.


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## SimonTsai

dojibear said:


> 我住在十八楼里; 我住在十八楼里面.


They are grammatical, possible, but unusual. The additional 裏 or 裏面 suggests that 十八樓 is extremely spacious or like a maze, so that other people have to look for you:

我現在和你那心愛的、珍視的 omega 在十八樓*裏*，這裏有一百七十七個房間。朴警官是聰明人，一定找得到；我一個 beta 的心思哪瞞得過 alpha 朴警官您呢？ (Linked is a page on omegaverse, or A/B/Ω.)


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