# jawbone



## alexxxx.

Hello everyone I am new, I joined the forum hoping to improve my poor *E*nglish 

question: this morning while I was reading a newspaper article I found this word - jawboned-(mandibola?)

*T*he context. *O*bama has jawboned *A*mericans on other counterterrorism programs recently too.

*A* newspaper article that talks about the security and espionage.
I can not find a sensible translation ..

*C*an you help?


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## Matrap

Ciao e benvenut@ 

Seconde te cosa significa? Serve anche un tuo tentativo.


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## elfa

alexxxx. said:


> this morning while I was reading a newspaper article I found this word - jawboned-(mandibola?)
> 
> the context. obama has jawboned americans on other counterterrorism programs recently too.



Ciao alexxxx e benvenut

This is a reference to the notion that strong-jawed Americans are perceived as virile and good-looking, and therefore make strong leaders. It is an ironic comment by the writer of the article that Obama appoints colleagues who fit this pre-conceived notion of strength. 

So...how would you say that in Italian? 

NB sei sicuro/a che la frase originale è scritta così? Non è il massimo dell'inglese corretto...


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## Matrap

Hi elfa

I thought it simply meant:


> to jaw·bone_ v._tr. To try to influence or pressure through strong persuasion, especially to urge to comply voluntarily.


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## elfa

Hi Matrap 

I didn't know this was a verb. However, it is definitely used as an adjective in this context.


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## Matrap

I understand that. The Oxford dictionary labels it as "North American informal".


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## elfa

Matrap said:


> I understand that. The Oxford dictionary labels it as "North American informal".


Yes, it's not something that would have much resonance in the UK - although most people would probably understand what is meant by it.


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## fredericks

elfa said:


> Hi Matrap
> I didn't know this was a verb. However, it is definitely used as an adjective in this context.



Sorry elfa, are you sure it's used as an adjective? I was thinking about something like this: Recentemente Obama ha anche condizionato gli americani con i programmi sull'antiterrorismo

Anyway, I found the whole article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2149614,00.html 
Maybe it can help.


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## elfa

fredericks said:


> Sorry elfa, are you sure it's used as an adjective? I was thinking about something like this: Recentemente Obama ha anche condizionato gli americani con i programmi sull'antiterrorismo
> 
> Anyway, I found the whole article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2149614,00.html



Aha, yes - thank both fredericks and matrap  
I was reading it wrongly - it *is* a verb.

Your translation looks fine but there is an element of coercion in "to jawbone". I'm not sure "condizionato" is quite strong enough...


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## giginho

Hi All!

Till the Fredricks' post I was sure to have correctly interpreted the meaning of "jawboned", now I'm really dazed and confused!

Well, first Elfa told us that it is a verb but it could be an adjective as well, so the point is:

*as a verb *it means to persuade someone using his own charisma (??????)

*as an adjective* it means: charismatic (????)

Am I wrong?

Another point: could it be used to indicate a physical characteristic of a man with a big jaw?


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## elfa

giginho said:


> *as a verb *it means to persuade someone using his own charisma (??????) Yes
> 
> *as an adjective* it means: charismatic (????) It doesn't look as though it is an adjective. My interpretation came from what I assumed to be the meaning of the text and the writer hiking the verb and making it into an adjective.
> 
> Another point: could it be used to indicate a physical characteristic of a man with a big jaw? No - not if it doesn't exist an adjective. You can't say "he is jawboned" or "he has a jawboned face". Sorry for any confusion!


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## giginho

Thank you Elfa! I was ready to bet that the man playing the character of Ridge in Beautiful could be called "jawboned".....mascellone in italian ..... you saved my money!


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## fredericks

elfa said:


> Aha, yes - thank both fredericks and matrap
> I was reading it wrongly - it *is* a verb.
> 
> Your translation looks fine but there is an element of coercion in "to jawbone". I'm not sure "condizionato" is quite strong enough...



Ok, from what I see, I'm not sure one word is enough to get the same meaning. I was thinking about *persuadere*, *convincere*, but I suppose they are not strong enough either


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## joanvillafane

Hi folks - definitely a verb.  And I personally don't think it has anything to do with "charisma" - it just means to talk and talk and talk in order to get a point across, to persuade, etc.  So in this case, it just means, he's been talking about it a lot.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/british/jawbone_2


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## Matrap

joanvillafane said:


> Hi folks - definitely a verb.  And I personally don't think it has anything to do with "charisma" - it just means to talk and talk and talk in order to get a point across, to persuade, etc.  So in this case, it just means, he's been talking about it a lot.
> http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/british/jawbone_2



"...ha fatto il lavaggio del cervello..."


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## alexxxx.

hi everyone,
i think matrap and fredericks are right, reading the context of the article.
the item is exactly the one posted above, I could not give it a try because I could not find anything that was connected with speech.

now i know i can use this word to describe a person "charismatic", "strong", "leader" even if it is not used often. right?

thanks for the answers


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## Matrap

Ciao alexxxx

Veramente joan ha detto che il carisma non c'entra nulla (post 14). Il senso è, come ha detto fredericks, quello di "persuadere"/"convincere".
Mi raccomando attenzione alle maiuscole, sia in italiano che in inglese, specie quando devi scrivere "I".


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## elfa

Matrap said:


> Veramente joan ha detto che il carisma non c'entra nulla (post 14). Il senso è, come ha detto fredericks, quello di "persuadere"/"convincere".


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## fredericks

Matrap said:


> "...ha fatto il lavaggio del cervello..."


Mi piace . Rende bene l'idea, magari non lo scriverebbero su un articolo giornalistico, ma in senso colloquiale si usa, un po' come *martellare la testa/il cervello*
Però hanno in un certo senso una connotazione negativa, quasi di fastidio.


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## MR1492

alexxxx. said:


> hi everyone,
> i think matrap and fredericks are right, reading the context of the article.
> the item is exactly the one posted above, I could not give it a try because I could not find anything that was connected with speech.
> 
> now i know i can use this word to describe a person "charismatic", "strong", "leader" even if it is not used often. right?
> 
> thanks for the answers



Not so fast there, buckeroo!  My online Merriam-Webster English dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jawbone) says that jawbone is either a noun describing the mandible (the actual jaw bone) or a verb meaning to be convincing.  It is not a word describing someone as strong, charismatic, or a leader.  As a speaker of AE, I would not use it in that fashion.  The two I would use are consistent with the Merriam-Webster definition.

Phil


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## Matrap

Hi Phil

Thanks for confirming what elfa and I said in post 17 and 18.


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## MR1492

@Matrap,

You are right.  I saw post #16 and did a quick reply.  Sorry for leaping before looking!

Phil


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## alexxxx.

sorry, I was in a hurry and I messed up.

ale
matrap thank you for the correction


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## MR1492

alexxxx. said:


> sorry, I was in a hurry and I messed up.
> 
> ale
> matrap thank you for the correction



alexxx,

Don't worry, we all do it.

Phil

P.S. Except Matrap, of course.  He's my idol!


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## Matrap

I wish it were true, Phil but I make mistakes like everyone else. You're my idol too.


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## curiosone

The Free Dictionary provides these definitions of "to jawbone" from different dictionaries (than Merriam-Webster), which confirm what Phil is saying (in agreement with Matrap and Elfa):

_The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: _
_v.tr.: _To try to influence or pressure through strong persuasion, especially to urge to comply voluntarily.
_v.intr.: _To urge voluntary compliance with official wishes or guidelines. 

_Collins English Dictionary:_
_US: _ to try to persuade or bring pressure to bear (on) by virtue of one's high office or position, esp in urging compliance with official policy

Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary:
_v.t: __to influence by persuasion, esp. by public appeal.


_Merriam-Webster:
_transitive verb _*:* to speak forcefully and persuasively to <_jawboned_ them into accepting the deal>

Trying to translate "Obama has jawboned Americans on other counterterrorism programs recently, too"into Italian, I'm not sure which of the following is better (or worse  ):
1) Obama ha fatto forte pressione affinché gli americani accettino degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.
2) Obama ha persuaso gli americani ad accettare degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.
3) Obama ha spinto gli americani ad accettare anche degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.

_[Whatever happened to unbiased reporting?]_


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## MR1492

curiosone said:


> Trying to translate "Obama has jawboned Americans on other counterterrorism programs recently, too"into Italian, I'm not sure which of the following is better (or worse  ):
> 1) Obama ha fatto forte pressione affinché gli americani accettino degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.
> 2) Obama ha persuaso gli americani ad accettare degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.
> 3) Obama ha spinto gli americani ad accettare anche degli altri programmi anti-terroristici, di recente.
> 
> _[Whatever happened to unbiased reporting?]_



I'm not saying this is absolutely correct but I think it is pretty good.


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## curiosone

Thanks for the opinion, Phil!    Maybe a _nativo_ will be willing to correct eventual errors or lack of elegance.
My problem with translating it, is that it seems more a sensationalistic slant intended to sell newspapers, than unbiased reporting (assuming such a thing exists).


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## Matrap

> Maybe a _nativo_ will be willing to correct eventual errors or lack of elegance.



Curiosone, l'unica modifica che farei alle tue ottime proposte è quello di mettere "di recente (o recentemente)" all'inizio della frase.


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## curiosone

Matrap said:


> Curiosone, l'unica modifica che farei alle tue ottime proposte è quello di mettere "di recente (o recentemente)" all'inizio della frase.



Thanks, Matrap!  That was in fact my biggest doubt about the sentence.


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