# 二の舞 (にのまい)



## Isidore Demsky

What does にのまい mean?

Does it mean "to do the same dance," "make the same mistake," or "fall into the same trap"?


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## Nobu.0

It means "to make the same mistake" or "fall into the same trap". It has the connotation that the mistake could have been prevented. 
I don't know where you got the idea of it meaning "dance" though...


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## M Mira

Nobu.0 said:


> It means "to make the same mistake" or "fall into the same trap". It has the connotation that the mistake could have been prevented.
> I don't know where you got the idea of it meaning "dance" though...


Maybe the kanji and its etymology? Probably taken it word-by-word and misunderstood.


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## Isidore Demsky

So what does *ま*い mean?


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## Isperia

Isidore Demsky said:


> So what does *ま*い mean?


"二の舞(にのまい)" comes from Japanese very classic dance.
In "安摩", two dancers, "安摩" and "二の舞" dance one by one.
安摩, the first dancer plays a dance quite well. And the second dancer 二の舞 fails to imitate it.
So "二の舞を演じる" originally means "to fail to imitate someboy's success",
but in these days "二の舞を演じる" or "二の舞" means "to repeat somebody's failure".


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## Isidore Demsky

Thank you, but I'm more interested in the phonetics of the spoken language than in kanji (or any other writing system.)

*ま*い is pronounced ma-ei, isn't it?

Does ma-ei mean dance, or mistake (or can it mean both)?


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## 涼宮

It's pronounced [maj], mah-ee. If you aren't interested in learning at least the two syllabaries which could save you a lot of work, use this text reader I'm sure it'll come in handy. 

まい with the kanji of 舞 means mainly dance, and in the expression you quoted it means mistake. まい can mean tons of things depending on the kanji and the context, so the hiragana alone can't tell you much.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Hi,
It might not be wise to think each part of the phrase separately because it's an idiom.

For example, you are asking like this:

"What does the 'grape' mean in the expression 'sour grape'?
Is it a name of a fruit or a kind of emotion?"

or 
"What does the 'lion' mean in the expression 'lion's share'?
Is it a name of an animal, or a king of animals, or a great majority (of something)?

As you already know, an idiom has a special meaning beyond the meaning of original words, right?

.............................
舞（まい、mai) itself means dancing.
二の舞　itself means the second dance.
However, it has a completely different meaning as an idiom, "repeating the same mistakes again" or "walking into the same trap again" or something like that.

Therefore, it is absurd to consider about the each word of an idiom.

Is it clear?


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## animelover

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> Therefore, it is absurd to consider about the each word of an idiom.



It's not absurd, but only if you're interested in (the idiom's) etymology, which the thread starter seems not to be.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

animelover said:


> It's not absurd, but only if you're interested in (the idiom's) etymology, which the thread starter seems not to be.



I didn't mean that thinking etymology was absurd.
For example, when thinking about an idiom "sour grape,"
"when somebody expresses sour grapes, it means that they put down something simply because they can't have it. "
is the correct explanation, right?

Then do you think about each part separately and think of literal translation? 
Like:
Expressing sour grapes = putting down something simply because they can't have it  (Correct)
Expressing = putting down (absurd way of thinking literally)
Expressing = saying (correct)
sour = something (absurd way of thinking literally)
sour = an adjective to refer a taste (correct)
grapes = simply because they can't have it  (absurd way of thinking literally)
grapes = a fruit

Likewise,

にのまい = "fall into the same trap" (correct)
にのまい＝　"the second dance" (correct if one thinks of its etimology)
に = "fall into"  (absurd)
の = " the same" (absurd)
まい = "trap" (absurd)
に =the second (correct)
の　＝a participle meaning possession (correct)
まい　＝　dance (correct)

Like the response #2, にのまい is functioning as one word for native Japanese people. 
Thinking etiology is good thing, I can't agree more, but I don't agree that まい itself has the meaning of "trap" or "failure." 

If the adjective "absurd" is offensive, I will take it back and replace it with more mild English words, although I'm not sure.
Maybe "not nice" "not regarded as wise" "just wasting precious time of learners" or something like that.


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