# Palestinian Arabic: rain / winter - مطر, شتا, شتوية



## Sidjanga

Hi,

I'm still a little confused and unsure about what words to use in PA if I want to say "winter" or "rain".

I've of course heard مطر used for "rain" , and both شتا and شتوية for "winter".
But I'm pretty sure at least some people use شتا  for "rain", too.

Is that correct? Is the concrete meaning of شتا in a given situation basically a question of context?

And are  شتا and شتوية perfect synonyms regarding the meaning "winter", or is there a relevant difference?

Thanks


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## clevermizo

Sidjanga said:


> Is that correct? Is the concrete meaning of شتا in a given situation basically a question of context?



Well in places where the شتاء is basically a rainy season, I could see how "rain" and "winter" could become essentially synonymous, or otherwise differentiated by context. We'll have to wait for a native speaker's confirmation of course, but worthy of note is that both the verbs تمطّر and تشتّى mean "to rain."


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## elroy

In my version of Palestinian Arabic (and in that of most people I know), شتا is both "rain" and "winter," and context usually makes it clear which is meant.  I don't ever use the word مطر in PA.

As for شتوية vs. شتا: شتوية  is used to refer to a specific winter (هالشتوية = "this winter"; الشتوية الجاي = "next winter"), whereas شتا refers to "wintertime" in general (بحبش أسافر بالشتا، دايمًا بَمرض بالشتا).

Oh, and the most common way to say "to rain" is definitely بتشتّي.


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## rayloom

I think in Lebanese, بتشتي can also mean it's snowing. Usually however, it's followed by ثلج.
عم بتشتي ثلج
3am bitshatti talj


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## Sidjanga

Thanks for your replies.





elroy said:


> As for شتوية vs. شتا: شتوية  is used to refer to a specific winter (هالشتوية = "this winter"; الشتوية الجاي = "next winter"),...


Is it always الشتوية الجاي, or can I also say الشتوية الجاية ?


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## rayloom

It's الشتوية الجاية only.
I believe الشتوية الجاي is a typo.


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## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> Thanks for your replies.Is it always الشتوية الجاي, or can I also say الشتوية الجاية ?





rayloom said:


> It's الشتوية الجاية only.
> I believe الشتوية الجاي is a typo.


 No, it's not.  In Palestinian Arabic, it is common to use الجاي for both genders.  I believe الجاية is also used by some people, but in my experience الجاي is more common.


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## rayloom

elroy said:


> No, it's not.  In Palestinian Arabic, it is common to use الجاي for both genders.  I believe الجاية is also used by some people, but in my experience الجاي is more common.



How do you pronounce الجاي? el-shitwiyye el-jaay or el-shitwiyye el-jaayye?


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## elroy

_i__sh-shitwiyye 'j-jaay_.   There is no ta marbuta.  I know it probably sounds really weird to you without a ta marbuta because it has to have one in your dialect, but I guarantee you I'm not making this up.


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## Sidjanga

elroy said:


> شتوية  is used to refer to a specific winter (هالشتوية = "this winter";...


Is the result of both هاي + الـ and هدا + الـ always هالـ if the first letter of the noun in question is treated as a sun consonant, or is there no (real) rule?





elroy said:


> In Palestinian Arabic, it is common to use الجاي for both genders. I believe الجاية is also used by some people, but in my experience الجاي is more common.


It seems indeed very common to use الجاي also for feminine nouns. (For I while, I actually thought I'd been the only one who'd say الجاية ). But I'm pretty sure I've heard some people use الجاية , too.


elroy said:


> _ish-shitwiyye 'j-jaay_.


Are there regional differences regarding the pronunciation of شتوية ?
I'm pretty sure I heard people - in Bethlehem/بيت ساحور  - say _sh*a*t(*a*)wiyye; _and I'm perfectly sure that I once said _sh*a*twiyye_ while I was talking to my host 'mom' (who's from Bethlehem and now lives in بيت ساحور) and she then repeated the word (apparently in order to correct me) and said _sh*a*t*a*wiyye_.


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## clevermizo

Sidjanga said:


> Is the result of both هاي + الـ and هدا + الـ always هالـ if the first letter of the noun in question is treated as a sun consonant, or is there no (real) rule?



The contracted form is هالــ regardless of gender and regardless of whether the following consonant is حرف قمرية or حرف شمسية.



> It seems indeed very common to use الجاي also for feminine nouns. (For I while, I actually thought I'd been the only one who'd say الجاية ). But I'm pretty sure I've heard some people use الجاية , too.



It's usually either one or the other. In Lebanese and Syrian I've been taught that it's always الجاية rather than الجاي. In rapid speech the difference between _jaay_ and _jaaye_ could be slight, which might be a reason why the gender distinction eroded in the first place.


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## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> Is the result of both هاي + الـ and هدا + الـ always هالـ if the first letter of the noun in question is treated as a sun consonant, or is there no (real) rule?


 As Clevermizo said, it's always هالـ. 





> Are there regional differences regarding the pronunciation of شتوية ?


 I think "shatawiyye" is the dominant pronunciation in Jerusalem/Bethlehem, whereas "shitwiyye" is more common in the Galilee.





clevermizo said:


> حرف قمرية or حرف شمسية.


 حرف is masculine.


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## clevermizo

elroy said:


> حرف is masculine.



Thanks. I think somewhere my mind was thinking حروف شمسية yet I was writing حرف. Aren't the names of the letters feminine?


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## elroy

clevermizo said:


> Aren't the names of the letters feminine?


 Yup.


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## Sidjanga

rayloom said:


> I think in Lebanese, بتشتي can also mean it's snowing. Usually however, it's followed by ثلج.
> عم بتشتي ثلج


Does that also work for PA?





clevermizo said:


> The contracted form is هالــ regardless of gender and regardless of whether the following consonant is حرف قمرية or حرف شمسية.


But it doesn't matter if I say هالشتوية or هاي الشتوية, or does it?


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## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> Does that also work for PA?


 In PA, عم بتشتي can only mean "it's raining."  To say "it's snowing," you have to say عم بتشتي تلج or عم بتتلج.  I'm 99% sure it's the same in Lebanese. 





> But it doesn't matter if I say هالشتوية or هاي الشتوية, or does it?


 Well, the two are not completely interchangeable, but I guess that's another thread.


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## ks20495

I read that "It's hot/cold/raining" is expressed in PA as: الدنيا شوب, بارد, بتشتي. Is that ever used?

Also, what exactly is the meaning of عم here ?


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## elroy

ks20495 said:


> I read that "It's hot/cold/raining" is expressed in PA as: الدنيا شوب, بارد, بتشتي.



الدنيا شوب 
الدنيا *برد*
الدنيا بتشتي 

You can also drop الدنيا. 





> Also, what exactly is the meaning of عم here ?


 "Uncle," of course.  Just kidding.   It's a progressive particle, so *عم *باكل = "I *am* eat*ing*."


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