# tingersi di porpora



## duma

Hello, could someone enlighten me on what exactly this means?

"Il colore è quello profondo della notte quando si prepara segretamente a tingersi di porpora."

So far I have this:

"The colour is the deep hue of the night when one secretly prepares to paint oneself purple.”

Is that right, particularly the "tingersi di porpora" part?

Thanks.


----------



## Memimao

_Porpora _is closer to the colour maroon (reddish blue) in English. It is the colour of bishops in the Catholic Church and of the dark (_si_ in the sentence) that lightens as the sun rises.


----------



## k_georgiadis

_Porpora _was also the distinctive mark of the Byzantine emperors who were the only ones permitted to wear clothing and shoes of that color.


----------



## Benzene

Hi!

My personal attempt is as it follows:


"The colour is that deep (one) of the night when it (the night) secretly prepares *to paint purple itself*".

"*In human colour psychology, purple is associated with nobility, regalness, and royalty*".

Please, correct my mistakes!

Bye,

Benzene


----------



## k_georgiadis

My attempt:

"The colour is that deep hue when the night secretly prepares to bathe/tinge itself in purple."


----------



## Memimao

Benzene said:


> Hi!
> 
> My personal attempt is as it follows:
> 
> 
> "The colour is that deep (one) of the night when it (the night) secretly prepares *to paint itself purple itself*".
> 
> "*In human colour psychology, purple is associated with nobility, regalness, and royalty*".
> 
> Please, correct my mistakes!
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Benzene


 
But the colour here intended is closer to the Italian prugna or violetto, than the classic meaning, which is more properly called _royal_ purple which is much redder, and _maroon_ in everyday language


----------



## neuromatico

Benzene said:


> "The colour is that deep (one) of the night when it (the night) secretly prepares *to paint purple itself*".
> 
> "Please, correct my mistakes!


The colour is that deep hue of the night when it secretly prepares to paint itself purple.

or

The colour is that deep hue the night acquires as it secretly prepares to paint itself purple.


----------



## Tristano

Benzene said:


> Hi!
> 
> My personal attempt is as it follows:
> 
> 
> "The colour is that deep (one) of the night when it (the night) secretly prepares *to paint purple itself*".
> 
> paint itself purple
> 
> "*In human colour psychology, purple is associated with nobility, regalness, and royalty*".
> 
> Please, correct my mistakes!
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Benzene



Tristano


----------



## duma

Ah, so it is the night that is painting itself purple! Thanks to everyone for their very helpful comments.


----------



## Alice Maloka

hello!

I have a similar problem to get the idea of this sentence!:

"L'acqua si tinge di ombre"

Here my attempt:

"The water paints/dyes itself in shadows".  But it does not sound any good to me!

thank you!


----------



## Tristano

Alice Maloka said:


> hello!
> 
> I have a similar problem to get the idea of this sentence!:
> 
> "L'acqua si tinge di ombre"
> 
> Here my attempt:
> 
> "The water paints/dyes itself in shadows".  But it does not sound any good to me!
> 
> thank you!



Hmmm! A tough one. It all depends on the kind of translation you are doing. Is this poetry? 

What came to my mind is: "The water paints itself in shadows." - as you said.

Tristano


----------



## Memimao

What about:

The water takes on a shadow hue?


----------



## Alice Maloka

Yes! It sounds much better!Thanks!


----------



## CPA

I'd turn it round and say something like _Shadows dapple [the surface of] the water._


----------



## theartichoke

CPA said:


> I'd turn it round and say something like _Shadows dapple [the surface of] the water._



I'm guessing your Italian is better than mine, so I'll ask: does the original imply dappled shadows, or just a change in the colour of the water? "Shadows dapple...." suggests an interplay of light and shadow, whereas the first thing that came to my mind for "l'acqua si tinge di ombre" was something more like "the water grows darker." Or if we want to work the shadows in there (in a rather loose translation) "as shadows fall, the water darkens."


----------



## CPA

Your guess is as good as mine, Arti. I read it as shadows starting to fall on the water. Perhaps Alice would care to provide more context?


----------



## Tristano

theartichoke said:


> I'm guessing your Italian is better than mine, so I'll ask: does the original imply dappled shadows, or just a change in the colour of the water? "Shadows dapple...." suggests an interplay of light and shadow, whereas the first thing that came to my mind for "l'acqua si tinge di ombre" was something more like "the water grows darker." Or if we want to work the shadows in there (in a rather loose translation) "as shadows fall, the water darkens."



I love the notion of "dapple" but see it as the interplay of light and shadow, as you say. 

Tristano


----------



## Teerex51

Another possibility: _dark shadows spread out on the water.
_


----------



## jules26

Salve a tutti, mi permetto di inserirmi nella discussione perché ho un problema simile e, nonostante i già numerosi e utilissimi thread, non sono convinta della traduzione più azzeccata per il mio caso.

Parlando di un evento tipicamente estivo chiamato qui in Italia "Notte blu" in cui le vie, le luci e gli esercizi commerciali di un paese si addobbano di blu:
"Le vie e le piazze del centro storico si tingono dei colori del cielo, ..."

"The streets and squares of the old town centre *paint themselves in* sky shades of blue, ..." (è corretta la preposizione in?) ("sky shades of blue" suona giusto o strano? intendo dire che i toni di blu degli addobbi possono essere molti: celeste, azzurro cielo, blu oltremare, blu notte...)


----------



## Tristano

La preposizione "in" ci sta benissimo... e' solo che... se posso dare un mio consiglio, la forma riflessiva "paint themselves" non mi convince in inglese. Direi "The streets and squares of the old town...
 are decked out in shades of blue (colloquial)
 are adorned in shades of blue

"*sky shades* of blue" non mi suona affatto. Caso mai: shades of sky blue




jules26 said:


> Salve a tutti, mi permetto di inserirmi nella discussione perché ho un problema simile e, nonostante i già numerosi e utilissimi thread, non sono convinta della traduzione più azzeccata per il mio caso.
> 
> Parlando di un evento tipicamente estivo chiamato qui in Italia "Notte blu" in cui le vie, le luci e gli esercizi commerciali di un paese si addobbano di blu:
> "Le vie e le piazze del centro storico si tingono dei colori del cielo, ..."
> 
> "The streets and squares of the old town centre *paint themselves in* sky shades of blue, ..." (è corretta la preposizione in?) ("sky shades of blue" suona giusto o strano? intendo dire che i toni di blu degli addobbi possono essere molti: celeste, azzurro cielo, blu oltremare, blu notte...)


----------



## Tristano

La preposizione "in" ci sta benissimo... e' solo che... se posso dare un mio consiglio, la forma riflessiva "paint themselves" non mi convince in inglese. Direi "The streets and squares of the old town...
 are decked out in shades of blue (colloquial)
are adorned in shades of blue

"*sky shades* X of blue" non mi suona affatto. Caso mai: shades of sky blue

Tristano




jules26 said:


> Salve a tutti, mi permetto di inserirmi nella discussione perché ho un problema simile e, nonostante i già numerosi e utilissimi thread, non sono convinta della traduzione più azzeccata per il mio caso.
> 
> Parlando di un evento tipicamente estivo chiamato qui in Italia "Notte blu" in cui le vie, le luci e gli esercizi commerciali di un paese si addobbano di blu:
> "Le vie e le piazze del centro storico si tingono dei colori del cielo, ..."
> 
> "The streets and squares of the old town centre *paint themselves in* sky shades of blue, ..." (è corretta la preposizione in?) ("sky shades of blue" suona giusto o strano? intendo dire che i toni di blu degli addobbi possono essere molti: celeste, azzurro cielo, blu oltremare, blu notte...)


----------



## theartichoke

Tristano said:


> La preposizione "in" ci sta benissimo... e' solo che... se posso dare un mio consiglio, la forma riflessiva "paint themselves" non mi convince in inglese. Direi "The streets and squares of the old town...
> are decked out in shades of blue (colloquial)
> are adorned in shades of blue
> 
> "*sky shades* of blue" non mi suona affatto. Caso mai: shades of sky blue



I agree that the phrase "paint themselves" should be avoided here, not because it's reflexive (that's fine) but because it could be misunderstood to refer to _literal_ paint. I'm assuming that nobody actually gets out tins of blue paint and paints the streets and the piazzas?

_Decorated in shades of sky blue_ is another possibility.


----------



## jules26

Now I see your point theartichoke!


----------



## jules26

Grazie mille Tristano!
"Sky shades of blue" non convinceva per niente neanche me ma mi sembrava che "shades of sky blue" non fosse accettabile perché a quanto ne so sky blue è già un tipo specifico di blu (l'azzurro cielo appunto ma nel senso di BRIGHT blue) e quindi mi sembrava che per definizione non potesse avere delle sfumature fino a comprendere il blu scuro! ma forse mi sbaglio?
Grazie ancora!


----------



## Tristano

Prego.
Be', immagino che ci possano essere anche "shades of sky blue" ma direi semplicemente "shades of blue" ...

Tristano


----------



## theartichoke

jules26 said:


> Grazie mille Tristano!
> "Sky shades of blue" non convinceva per niente neanche me ma mi sembrava che "shades of sky blue" non fosse accettabile perché a quanto ne so sky blue è già un tipo specifico di blu (l'azzurro cielo appunto ma nel senso di BRIGHT blue) e quindi mi sembrava che per definizione non potesse avere delle sfumature fino a comprendere il blu scuro! ma forse mi sbaglio?
> Grazie ancora!



Check this out, Jules, about variations in sky blue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_blue
If you need to cover more variations than that, you may have to either drop the "sky" and use something like "many / various shades of blue" or do something poetic like "in shades of blue, from the palest azure to the darkest midnight."


----------



## jules26

ahahahaah Grazie Tristano e theartichocke!! Forse per essere più fedele al testo e mantenere l'espressione "i colori del cielo" dovrei dire "sky colours" e lasciar perdere l'ovvio cioè il blu, ma mi chiedo se in inglese "adorned in sky colours" non sia anche peggio... Ahhhh ragazzi sto diventando esagerata, me ne rendo conto! Siete stati fin troppo precisi e disponibili! Intanto Grazie per il prezioso contributo e alla prossima!


----------



## Tristano

"sky colours".... direi di no.
meglio: "colors of the sky" (o colours) 

Tristano


----------



## jules26

Ecco, appunto!


----------



## dejudicibus

Memimao said:


> It is the colour of bishops in the Catholic Church



There is a misunderstood here. Porpora and purple are FALSE FRIENDS in Italian and English. The color of Bishops in the Catholic Church is "porpora", but it is very different from purple, which is VIOLA in Italian. In Italian language, PORPORA is a kind of red, whereas purple in English is a mix of red and blue.

PORPORA: https://i2.wp.com/www.boscarol.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Purple.jpg
VIOLA: https://i2.wp.com/www.boscarol.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/viola.jpg

A similar problem is related to the color of sky: in English is BLUE but no Italian would say that sky is blue. For us the sky is AZZURRO, not BLU.


----------



## Memimao

Hi dejucibus: You mean misunderstanding I think ... But yes they are false friends.
I did in fact say porpora was maroon (a red shade).
Blue can be sky blue (=azure is the technical name I believe). When we use it to describe the sky, we don't use the redundant the sky is sky blue (in a form of ellipsis). Italian blu we normally call navy (blue).
In English we use Violet only for the spectral colour of course, and purple is actually red and blue.


----------

