# Many / a lot



## venice

In una grammatica inglese ho trovato questa regola :
*Many* come aggettivo precede solo nomi plurali e si usa solo nelle frasi negative ed interrogative:
Hai molti libri? = Have you got *many* books?
Nelle frasi affermative deve essere sostituito con *a lot:*
Ho molti libri : I have *a lot* of books.
A me suona un po' strano. Ho sempre detto e sentito dire 'I've many books'. E' forse una vecchia regola?
Grazie in anticipo.


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## perfavore

venice said:


> In una grammatica inglese ho trovato questa regola :
> *Many* come aggettivo precede solo nomi plurali e si usa solo nelle frasi negative ed interrogative:
> Hai molti libri? = Have you got *many* books?
> Nelle frasi affermative deve essere sostituito con *a lot:*
> Ho molti libri : I have *a lot* of books.
> A me suona un po' strano. Ho sempre detto e sentito dire 'I've many books'. E' forse una vecchia regola?
> Grazie in anticipo.


 
Si, forse una vecchia regola perche non l'ho mai sentita.


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## venice

perfavore said:


> Si, forse una vecchia regola perche non l'ho mai sentita.


Ciao, ci si ritrova!
In effetti io uso 'a lot'  per indicare una grossa quantità, un sacco, che hanno significato leggermente diverso da molti. (ma questa grammatica non è poi così vecchia, è del 1996)


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## TimLA

Regole....caspita!....siamo troppo flessibile per regole! 

Parliamo degli esempi:

Have you got many books?
È un esempio perfetto a causa di "got" e "many".
"Got" è una parola che dobbiamo evitare in un contesto "formale", ma la parola si usa più che "have" - quindi non l'uso quando scrivo, ma l'uso spesso quando parlo.
"Many", a mio parere, è più "formale" che "a lot" (vedi sotto).
Quindi direi:
Have you got a lot of books? Va bene in una conversazione colloquiale.
Do you have many books? Meglio in un contesto "formale" e quando si scrive.

Secondo esempio:
I have a lot of books. Va bene, colloquiale, perfettamente capito.
I have many books. Va bene, formale, la scriverei così.

Poi, la regola:
"Many" come aggettivo precede solo nomi plurali, e si usa solo nelle frasi negative ed interrogative.
Sbagliato!
I have many books on the shelves.
Do you have many books in your library?
He doesn't have many books in his room.
Tutte e tre sono "naturale" e "fluente".
La parte blu, è la parte giusta della regola.

There are many examples of how "rules" are made to be broken in English.
There are a lot of examples of how "rules" are made to be broken in English.

Ciao!


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## perfavore

venice said:


> Ciao, ci si ritrova!
> In effetti io uso 'a lot' per indicare una grossa quantità, un sacco, che hanno significato leggermente diverso da molti. (ma questa grammatica non è poi così vecchia, è del 1996)


 
Davvero non l'ho mai sentita quella regola. Assolutamente puoi usare "a lot of" come "many" in molti casi. Credo che c'è una differenza tra "many" e "much". I have many books. I have so much money. I don't have a lot of books. I have a lot of money. Non puoi dire "I have many money" o "I have many pity for you". "I have much pity for you" è corretta.


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## venice

Grazie TimLA!
Cose da pazzi! Allora cosa ne facciamo di questa grammatica (libro)?
Devo scrivere all'autore e dirgli: Tell it to the marines !!!
Ciao


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## TimLA

venice said:


> Grazie TimLA!
> Cose da pazzi! Allora cosa ne facciamo di questa grammatica (libro)?
> Devo scrivere all'autore e dirgli: Tell it to the marines !!!
> Ciao


 
Mai dovresti buttare un libro, ma puoi usare come una pressa 
Il migliore libro di grammatica si chiama "WR".


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## venice

perfavore said:


> Davvero non l'ho mai sentita quella regola. Assolutamente puoi usare "a lot of" come "many" in molti casi. Credo che c'è una differenza tra "many" e "much". I have many books. I have so much money. I don't have a lot of books. I have a lot of money. Non puoi dire "I have many money" o "I have many pity for you". "I have much pity for you" è corretta.


Si, certo 'much' precede solo nomi singolari.
Grazie per le precisazioni.


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## venice

TimLA said:


> Mai dovresti buttare un libro, ma puoi usare come una pressa
> Il migliore libro di grammatica si chiama "WR".


 
Yes, you are right!
I know you don't mind if I split hairs in your sentences.
It would be better to say:
Non dovresti mai buttare un libro, potresti usarlo come una pressa.


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## TimLA

venice said:


> Yes, you are right!
> I know you don't mind if I split hairs in your sentences.
> It would be better to say:
> Non dovresti mai buttare un libro, potresti usarlo come una pressa.


 
Non devo mai usare "mai" al inizio di una frase così...

Come al solito....thank you *VERY* much....


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## venice

TimLA said:


> Non devo mai usare "mai" al inizio di una frase così...
> 
> Come al solito....thank you *VERY* much....


 
Emm.... Ci sono casi in cui è possibile usare mai all'inizio di frase.
Nei proverbi, nei consigli, nelle affermazioni un po' paternalistiche...
Però è meglio farlo seguire da un infinito:
Mai dire le bugie: ti potrebbe crescere il naso!
Mai pensare al futuro, vivi il presente!


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## perfavore

venice said:


> Emm.... Ci sono casi in cui è possibile usare mai all'inizio di frase.
> Nei proverbi, nei consigli, nelle affermazioni un po' paternalistiche...
> Però è meglio farlo seguire da un infinito:
> Mai dire le bugie: ti potrebbe crescere il naso!
> Mai pensare al futuro, vivi il presente!


 
La tua spiegazione è chiara. Grazie.


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## audia

venice said:


> In una grammatica inglese ho trovato questa regola :
> *Many* come aggettivo precede solo nomi plurali e si usa solo nelle frasi negative ed interrogative:
> Hai molti libri? = Have you got *many* books?
> Nelle frasi affermative deve essere sostituito con *a lot:*
> Ho molti libri : I have *a lot* of books.


 
Yes,Venice, many( a lot of) modern grammar books teach this and as Tim pointed out you can still say ""many"" in affirmative sentences ( as I also did in this one)but it is more formal.
Usually the rules for much and many are taught together and the reason probably that they say ""use many only in negative and interogative sentences"" is because while it is still used in more formal affermative sentences, the use of much has all but dyed out in colloquial English ( AE at least) in the affermatives .

Does he have much money?
No, He doesn't have much money.
but,   He has a lot of money not He has much money.( a sure sign of a non-native speaker ).

Therefore, you are safer( rather ,more native) if you avoid using either much or many in the affirmative when speaking.


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## venice

audia said:


> Therefore, you are safer( rather ,more native) if you avoid using either much or many in the affirmative when speaking.


 
So that grammar book wasn't wrong!
I think that few people know this rule, and I'd like to hear them.
Thanks a lot for your surprising answer.


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## cmonsour

Minor point, but since no one has mentioned it: your initial version "'I've many books" sounds very British.  An American would say "I have..." or "I've got..." but never just "I've" to mean "I have, I possess."


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## perfavore

venice said:


> So that grammar book wasn't wrong!
> I think that few people know this rule, and I'd like to hear them.
> Thanks a lot for your surprising answer.


 
No, the book isn't wrong. I believe you already understand the basic difference. Yes, I believe many people don't follow that rule in everyday language as you yourself had had seen that many people use the word "many" in the affirmative.


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## neuromatico

venice said:


> So that grammar book wasn't wrong!
> I think that few people know this rule, and I'd like to hear them.
> Thanks a lot for your surprising answer.



"Thanks much" is an CE colloqialism you may hear. It's a contraction of "Thanks very much," an extremely common CE (moreso than AE?) expression.

I also _don't_ think you'll find _much _disagreement with audia's rule among native speakers.


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## venice

cmonsour said:


> Minor point, but since no one has mentioned it: your initial version "'I've many books" sounds very British. An American would say "I have..." or "I've got..." but never just "I've" to mean "I have, I possess."


I'll give you some examples, because I'm not sure to understand what you said.
'I've many books' sounds very British (but I know it isn't used any more)
'I have a lot of books' is used both in AE and BE
'I've got a lot of books' is used more in AE

Did I catch your explanation?


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## cmonsour

That sounds right.  I'm not an expert on BE, so my point was just that in AE "I have" is not abbreviated to "I've" when "have" is the main verb (as in "I have a lot of books") -- only when "have" is an auxiliary verb (as in "I've run three miles today" or "I've got a lot of books").


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## perfavore

venice said:


> I'll give you some examples, because I'm not sureto  I understand what you said.
> 'I've many books' sounds very British (but I know it isn't used any more)
> 'I have a lot of books' is used both in AE and BE
> 'I've got a lot of books' is used more in AE
> 
> Did I catch your explanation?


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## venice

Thank you *perfavore*! Every your correction is welcome. Ciao


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## neuromatico

cmonsour said:


> That sounds right.  I'm not an expert on BE, so my point was just that in AE "I have" is not abbreviated to "I've" when "have" is the main verb (as in "I have a lot of books") -- only when "have" is an auxiliary verb (as in "I've run three miles today" or "I've got a lot of books").


"Many" is used in CE, although usually not with the contraction "I've". 
I have many books.

Although I don't think it's either formal or antiquated, "I have many" is more often seen than heard. 
In spoken English (CE and AE), "I've a lot" is much more common, whereas "I have many" is usually reserved for emphasis or to make a point, 
e.g. I have many books on Italian grammar and I still make mistakes!


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## venice

neuromatico said:


> "Many" is used in CE, although usually not with the contraction "I've".
> I have many books.
> 
> Although I don't think it's either formal or antiquated, "I have many" is more often seen than heard.
> In spoken English (CE and AE), "I've a lot" is much more common, whereas "I have many" is usually reserved for emphasis or to make a point,
> e.g. I have many books on Italian grammar and I still make mistakes!


 
Thank you for this clear explanation and also for your #17 post.


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## perfavore

venice said:


> Thank you *perfavore*! Every your (should be: Your every) correction is welcome. Ciao


 
  Spero di averti aiutato. Please correct my Italian too whenever I write in it.


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## exiledblue

I cant find a different definition between a lot of and many. Both seem to be molte.

I am sure there must be a difference. Does someone have a quantifier list?

thanks


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## effeundici

What's the real difference, in your opinion, between the two?


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## King Crimson

I would say _a lot of_ could be translated as _un sacco di_ rather than _molti/e (e.g. a lot of money -> un sacco di soldi)_, so it would be used in a more colloquial fashion and not always in the same expressions where _molti/e_ is used.


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## effeundici

King Crimson said:


> I would say _a lot of_ could be translated as _un sacco di_ rather than _molti/e (e.g. a lot of money -> un sacco di soldi)_, so it would be used in a more colloquial fashion and not always in the same expressions where _molti/e_ is used.


 
Sei sicuro? _A lot _mi sembra un'espressione perfettamente formale. D'altronde sennò quale sarebbe l'espressione formale per dire _molti soldi/molto denaro ?_


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## Curandera

Well,

We are talking here of countable and uncountable nouns as to when and how to use 
a lot of and/or many.
I have got *a lot* of bread  (molt*o* pane) uncountable nouns
I haven't got *much* bread
I have many friends   (molt*i* amici/ molt*e* amiche) countable nouns

However, in English you can say I have *a lot of* friends too, which in Italian is the same as *many.*

Does it help?


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## King Crimson

I agree with Curandera on the distinction between countable and uncountable, even though I would add that (to me, at least)_ a lot of_ seems stronger than _many/much_ (_un sacco di_ pane/soldi is stronger than _molto_ pane or _molti_ soldi).
I also maintain that I wouldn't use _a lot of_ in formal contexts (e.g. a written report to the board of directors) but on both points let's wait for some suggestions from natives.


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## Tonza

I'll weigh in with my two cents...I agree with KC that "a lot of/lots of" is colloquial, and I would avoid using it in formal situations. I also agree that it can translate as "un sacco di..." Conversely, although always correct, sometimes "many/much" sounds overly formal, depending on the situation.

As for comparing the strength of "a lot/lots" and "many/much", I don't think there is a difference except that if you use one out of place it sounds strange, thus detracting from the meaning, for example:

(in a formal written letter): Dear Mr. Smith, the employees have had a lot of problems with the new computer system.
(in an informal context): Hey John, you're acting like you just drank many beers!


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## Tunalagatta

Curandera said:


> Well,
> 
> We are talking here of countable and uncountable nouns as to when and how to use
> a lot of and/or many.
> I have got *a lot* of bread (molt*o* pane) uncountable nouns
> I haven't got *much* bread
> I have many friends (molt*i* amici/ molt*e* amiche) countable nouns
> 
> However, in English you can say I have *a lot of* friends too, which in Italian is the same as *many.*
> 
> Does it help?


  

This is all correct and very clear. I'd also agree with King Crimson, that, while 'a lot of' is not necessarily informal, for example like "un sacco di", in a formal context it sounds a little better to say "many" + plural nouns.

I personally don't think that "a lot of" has a stronger meaning than "many".

For uncountable nouns, you can't use "much" in an affirmative way (*not* "we have much bread") without sounding like Shakespeare, so we still use 
"a lot of", even in a formal context (or "plenty of").


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## Tonza

Tunalagatta said:


> For uncountable nouns, you can't use "much" in an affirmative way (*not* "we have much bread") without sounding like Shakespeare, so we still use
> "a lot of", even in a formal context (or "plenty of").



Good point, which also answers F11's question above: the formal way to say _molti soldi/molto denaro_ is indeed "a lot of money".


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## exiledblue

thanks everyone, 

I can agree that *many* (at least in English) is for countable nouns but *a lot of* can be for countable and uncountable for example there is a lot of bread (u) and there are a lot of bread rolls (c)


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## King Crimson

Mixed views on different subjects, looking throughout this thread...


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## King Crimson

On the _BBC Learning English_ website, which should be an authoritative subject in this matter, I found this about the use of "much/many" and "a lot of", "lots of" in formal and informal writing.


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## andym

venice said:


> I'll give you some examples, because I'm not sure to understand what you said.
> 'I've many books' sounds very British (but I know it isn't used any more)
> 'I have a lot of books' is used both in AE and BE
> 'I've got a lot of books' is used more in AE
> 
> Did I catch your explanation?



No I don't think many British people would say 'I've many books'. In order of formality: 'I've got a lot of', 'I've got lots of', and 'I've got a load of ...' (or loads of) would be a lot more common. I don't think there's a difference between AmE and BE here. 

Beware thinking that because something sounds more formal (or even simply more old-fashioned) it must be British English - that's just a stereotype.


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