# Persian: خوردن/xordan



## PersoLatin

خوردن/xordan seems to have two distinct meanings:

1) To eat, ingest, swallow even drink:
شام خوردن/ŝâm xordan - to eat dinner
دارو خوردن/dâru xordan - to take/swallow medicine etc.

2) The other, not so consistent (not obviously anyway) & can mean: to catch, experience, come across or confront something:
زمین خوردن/zamin xordan - to fall, on the ground specifically
سرما خوردن/sarmâ xordan - catch a cold
شکست خوردن/ŝekast xordan - to be defeated
رنگ خوردن/rang xordan - to be painted
زنگ خوردن/zang xordan - the ringing of a bell, to go rusty (although zadan is used more commonly)
سر خوردن/sor xordan - to slip/slide
برخوردن/barxordan - benefit from or confront/come across something

Is meaning 1) really the same as the meaning 2), in other words it is another example of use of xordan as a compound, same as in group 2), or did the two meanings come from different verbs but have now merged into one?


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## vidaverde

You might be able to consolidate the meaning of xordan = to receive


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## mundiya

PersoLatin said:


> خوردن/xordan seems to have two distinct meanings:
> 
> 1) To eat, ingest, swallow even drink:
> شام خوردن/ŝâm xordan - to eat dinner
> دارو خوردن/dâru xordan - to take/swallow medicine etc.
> 
> 2) The other, not so consistent (not obviously anyway) & can mean: to catch, experience, come across or confront something:
> زمین خوردن/zamin xordan - to fall, on the ground specifically
> سرما خوردن/sarmâ xordan - catch a cold
> شکست خوردن/ŝekast xordan - to be defeated
> رنگ خوردن/rang xordan - to be painted
> زنگ خوردن/zang xordan - the ringing of a bell, to go rusty (although zadan is used more commonly)
> سر خوردن/sor xordan - to slip/slide
> برخوردن/barxordan - benefit from or confront/come across something
> 
> Is meaning 1) really the same as the meaning 2), in other words it is another example of use of xordan as a compound, same as in group 2), or did the two meanings come from different verbs but have now merged into one?



To category 1) you can also add "xoraak xordan" - to eat food.

To category 2) you can add "havaa xordan" - to feel the wind, "qasam/sowgand xordan" - to take an oath, "reshvat xordan" - to take a bribe, and a few others.

I assume all of the above expressions I mentioned are used in Persian, correct?

At least for "qasam/sowgand xordan" it appears the IE verb *swer- meaning "to swear" merged into Iranian *hwar- "to eat".


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## Aloyalfriend

PersoLatin said:


> Is meaning 1) really the same as the meaning 2), in other words it is another example of use of xordan as a compound, same as in group 2), or did the two meanings come from different verbs but have now merged into one?


You may study this article.


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## PersoLatin

Aloyalfriend said:


> You may study this article


Thank you, had a quick a browse, looks like it will provide many or all of the answers.


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## PersoLatin

mundiya said:


> I assume all of the above expressions I mentioned are used in Persian, correct?


Yes, a couple of small points: on "reshvat xordan", the word is reŝvé rather than reŝvat, also "xorâk xordan" is not used for 'to eat' in mainstream Persian, additionally xorâk is a type of food or a style of cooking food these days, as well as just food. xorâki is snacks/sweets, also means 'edible'

Some more: mordé xâri/xori (cat. 1), qam/qossé xordan, hasrat xordan (to be jealous), hers xordan (to be annoyed/stressed), ĉeŝm xordan (being subject to the 'evil' eye)



mundiya said:


> At least for "qasam/sowgand xordan" it appears the IE verb *swer- meaning "to swear" merged into Iranian *hwar- "to eat".


This is interesting, so the sense of eating (cat. 1) developed from 'to swear' (cat. 2), and if so I wonder how?


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## Treaty

No, there are two different PIE roots: *_swel _(to eat, with Iranian l>r shift) and *_swer _(to speak).


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## PersoLatin

Aloyalfriend said:


> You may study this article.



I thought I'd let others know the findings of the above article, although I am not sure about the added value of the study. Anyway it divides xordan into 3 main categories based on the direction of action:

*Inward *
1 - Exposure: آفتاب، باد، هوا ، دود،‏ گرد، سرما/âftâb, bâd, havâ, dud, gard, sarmâ (damaged by cold)
2 - Ingest/eat:

  Actual - غذا ، آب، سوگند/qazâ, âb, sôgand
  Metaphoric- سرما،‏ قسم،‏ گول، جوش، پول، رشوه/ sarmâ (catch cold), qasam, gul,      jush, pul, reŝvé
3 - Unknown/indeterminate  - پیچ، خراش، تکان، زنگ، گره/ piĉ, xarâŝ, tekân, zang, gereh

*Outward:*
   1) Actual -  زمین، رنگ، پا/zamin, rang, pâ
   2) Metaphoric – به سنگ/درد/مشکل،‏ به کسی برخوردن - bé sang/dard/moŝkel, bé kasi barxordan

*Bi-directional:* پیوند، وصله، به هم، برهم /peyvand, vaslé, beh ham, bar ham

Note: sôgand/سوگند (not قسم) has been grouped together with غذا and آب, the given reason, which surprised me, is:
*سوگند*» به معنی «*آب آمیخته به گوگرد*» است که در گذشته زرتشتیان برای مشخص کردن گناهکار بودن یا نبودن»
متهمان به آنان می خوراندند
(bottom of page 10)

It doesn't discuss the etymology.


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## PersoLatin

Treaty said:


> No, there are two different PIE roots: *_swel _(to eat, with Iranian l>r shift) and *_swer _(to speak).


Thank you Treaty, so is this the answer to my OP? 


PersoLatin said:


> 1) To eat, ingest, swallow even drink:


From PIE root:*_swel _(to eat, with Iranian l>r shift) 
AND


PersoLatin said:


> 2) The other, not so consistent (not obviously anyway) & can mean: to catch, experience, come across or confront something:


From PIE root:*_swer _(to speak)


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## Treaty

PersoLatin said:


> Thank you Treaty, so is this the answer to my OP?


No, sorry for this confusion. It was an answer to your question:


PersoLatin said:


> This is interesting, so the sense of eating (cat. 1) developed from 'to swear' (cat. 2), and if so I wonder how?


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## fdb

As Treaty has mentioned, the Iranian root *hwar- continues two different IE roots: IE *swel- “to eat, to drink”, and IE *swer- “to swear” (with its obvious Germanic cognates). However, already in Middle Persian the latter survives only in phrase sōgand xwardan “to swear an oath” (reinterpreted by folk etymology as “to drink sulphur”). It seems to me that all of the expressions quoted in the original question involve “eating” or “drinking” in a more-or-less figurative sense. For example, zamīn xwardan “eat earth” > “fall to the ground” can be compared (semantically) with the English “bite the dust” > “die”.


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## desi4life

fdb said:


> However, already in Middle Persian the latter survives only in phrase sōgand xwardan “to swear an oath” (reinterpreted by folk etymology as “to drink sulphur”).



Is the meaning of sulphur attested in Middle Persian?


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## fdb

sōgand in the meaning “sulphur” is not to my knowledge attested in MP. There is, however, Avestan āpəm saokəntavaitīm (acc. s.) “water containing sulphur”, from the root saoč- “to burn brightly”. The idea is that sōgand “oath” is from the homophonous root saoč- “to call”.


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## minaaaaa

در زبان بلوچی نیز فعل ورگ کابردهای بسیار و تقریبا یکسانی با خوردن فارسی دارد


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## PersoLatin

Thanks for clarifying fdb.



fdb said:


> There is, however, Avestan āpəm saokəntavaitīm (acc. s.) “water containing sulphur”, from the root saoč- “to burn brightly”. The idea is that sōgand “oath” is from the homophonous root saoč- “to call”.


I wonder if you or anyone else would know the context, the Avestan “water containing sulphur” was used, also is there a NP/MP version of saoč- “to call”?


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## fdb

PersoLatin said:


> I wonder if you or anyone else would know the context, the Avestan “water containing sulphur” was used,



Vendidad 4: 54, 55.



PersoLatin said:


> also is there a NP/MP version of saoč- “to call”?



No, only in Avestan and Eastern Iranian.


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## PersoLatin

Thanks fdb, I am sure this is it:


fdb said:


> Vendidad 4: 54, 55.


'the brimstoned, golden, truth-knowing water' but the attribute 'truth-knowing' which has been misconstrued in below, seems to be missing, or is in 'brimstoned, golden' by implication.


> سوگند» به معنی «آب آمیخته به *گوگرد*» است که در گذشته زرتشتیان* برای مشخص کردن گناهکار بودن یا نبودن*»
> *متهمان به آنان می خوراندند*


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## Derakhshan

For meaning 2, in the dialect I know, you have intransitive/passive verbs using خوردن and their transitive forms using دادن.

زُر خوردن = to spin/be spun
زُر دادن = to spin (vt.)
(Standard چرخیدن & چرخاندن)

تکون خوردن = to shake/be shaken
تکون دادن = to shake (vt.)

فحش خوردن = to receive insults/get insulted
فحش دادن = to insult

The words in meaning 1 do not have these transitive forms using دادن.


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> خوردن/xordan seems to have two distinct meanings:



By the way, how do I merge two different sentences with خوردن?

Say: سر خردم + به زمین خردم
Do I say سر و به زمین خوردم? Or به زمسن سر خوردم?


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## PersoLatin

ali likes the stars said:


> By the way, how do I merge two different sentences with خوردن?
> 
> Say: سر خردم + به زمین خردم
> Do I say سر و به زمین خوردم? Or به زمسن سر خوردم?


You can't, you still have to use two خوردم's. I'm sure you can do this yourself but this is one way: سر خوردم و خوردم زمین


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> You can't, you still have to use two خوردم's.



That's a petty...


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## PersoLatin

PersoLatin said:


> You can't, you still have to use two خوردم's.


Your example reminded me of this school ground riddle: سربازی سر بازی سربازی سربازی را کشت


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> Your example reminded me of this school ground riddle: سربازی سر بازی سربازی سربازی را کشت



سربازی
A soldier....
سر بازی سربازی
...while playing military...
سربازی را کشت
...killed another soldier.

Yes? 

This reminds me of yet another question that has been bothering me for a while.
I will create a new post for it.


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## PersoLatin

ali likes the stars said:


> سربازی
> A soldier....
> سر بازی سربازی
> ...while playing military...
> سربازی را کشت
> ...killed another soldier.
> 
> Yes?


Actually, the version I am accustomed to is:
A soldier....
...while sliding/playing on ice...
...killed *a* soldier.

sarbâzi sare bâziye *sorbâzi *sarbâzi râ koŝt


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> Actually, the version I am accustomed to



I never heard of this riddle or in fact any school ground riddle/game before as I have never known Iranian kids.
I just tried to make sense of it 



PersoLatin said:


> sarbâzi sare bâziye *sorbâzi *sarbâzi râ koŝt



I should've thought about that, since you said my example with sor made you remember it 

By the way, is سُزبازی then the correct term for ice skating or sliding on ice? Such as تاب‌بازی for swinging or الاکلنمگ‌بازی for seesawing?


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## PersoLatin

ali likes the stars said:


> By the way, is سُزبازی then the correct term for ice skating or sliding on ice? Such as تاب‌بازی for swinging or الاکلنمگ‌بازی for seesawing?


No, it is a name kid's use, at least I haven't heard it used in a more formal capacity, 'ice skating' is اسکیت روی یخ.

If there ever was a winter Olympics game where contestants, from a stationary position, ran and then slid on ice and distance travelled decided the winner, then I would call is سُزبازی. In fact I don't see why there's not already such a game, it is closer to the spirit of Olympic since there are no sophisticated equipment used. But I suppose they will invent sophisticated polished boots and get people to brush the ice before them like they do in  'curling'


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> But I suppose they will invent sophisticated polished boots and get people to brush the ice before them like they do in 'curling'



That would be amazing 



ali likes the stars said:


> Such as تاب‌بازی for swinging or الاکلنمگ‌بازی for seesawing?


These are the correct terms though, right? Or is this play ground language as well? I guess one could say تابیدن, though بریم بتایم doesn't sound like something adults would say... of course, adults don't really hang out on the playground as well...

Is there a verb for الاکلنگ?


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## PersoLatin

ali likes the stars said:


> These are the correct terms though, right?


Yes they are correct and are playground language.



ali likes the stars said:


> I guess one could say *تابیدن*, though *بریم بتایم* doesn't sound like something adults would say... of course, adults don't really hang out on the playground as well...


No, but adult do too, maybe بریم تاب سواری



ali likes the stars said:


> Is there a verb for الاکلنگ?


No, now you really are asking, but no, not الاکلنگیدن 

کلنگ means pickax and also crane and the latter must be behind الاکلنگ but I don't know where الا comes from, to me it sound like the French 'a la' and it makes perfect sense too but why or how? The alternative is the Arabic الا which doesn't makes sense to me.


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## ali likes the stars

PersoLatin said:


> کلنگ means pickax and also crane and the latter must be behind الاکلنگ but I don't know where الا comes from, to me it sound like the French 'a la' and it makes perfect sense too but why or how? The alternative is the Arabic الا which doesn't makes sense to me.



Hmm interesting. Maybe it is a derivate from الله and means god's pickax... I mean, we do get thrown up and down in life


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