# Persian: نه‌رومی‌روم نه‌زنگی‌زنگ



## Aloyalfriend

Hello!
Anybody got any suggestion for the English equivalent of " نه‌رومی روم نه زنگی‌زنگ"?


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## PersoLatin

Aloyalfriend said:


> Hello!
> Anybody got any suggestion for the English equivalent of " نه‌رومی روم نه زنگی‌زنگ"?


'neither a Roman nor an African' 
Or more literally:
'Neither a Roman from Rome nor an African from Africa'

زنگستان (here زنگ) was the Persian name for North Africa & Ethiopia.


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## Aloyalfriend

Thanks PersoLatin.
 "نه رومی روم نه زنگی زنگ" is a Persian proverb. What you suggested is a literal translation of the phrase.
نه رومی روم نه زنگی زنگ یعنی: یا این طرف یا آن طرف، به عبارت دیگر یعنی تردید را کنار گذاشتن و بر یک عقیده پا برجا شدن برای انجام یک عمل
مثالی دیگر در این باب با مضمون تقریبا مشابه:
هم آش معاویه را می خورد هم نماز  علی را می خواند.


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## PersoLatin

Sorry, the translation is rather obvious.

I agree with your understanding of it. I can't think of an exact English equivalent but, to me, the saying is primarily advocating, assertiveness while making decisions by not tending to go to extremes, in the process. There may be even a hint of 'you can't have it all'


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## Aloyalfriend

Thank you for your attention.
I came up with these two proverbs:
A door must be either shut or open
You cannot run with the hare and hunt with the hounds


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## PersoLatin

Is there any more to this saying, i.e. is it part of a longer line of poetry/verse?


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## Aloyalfriend

No، there is no more it.


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## Stranger_

If someone says this proverb to me, then does he mean that I am neither with him nor against him or that I am sometimes with him sometimes against him? How is it used? Could you give an example to show its usage?


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## Aloyalfriend

Stranger_ said:


> Could you give an example to show its usage?[/QUOTE





Stranger_ said:


> Sure.
> کشور ایکس کشوری بسیار ستمگر است و واقعا دارد ظلم عظیمی به مردمان کشور ایکس۱ می کند. ولی خب کشور ایکس۱ هم حق دارد ، چونکه کشور ایکس کشوری کوچک است و چونکه توان جنگ و مقابله را ندارد باید تن به استعمار دهد.
> شخص دوم: این که نشد حرف حساب، از یک طرف میگی کشور ایکس ستمگر است و ظالم و باز از طرفی داری ازش طرفداری می کنی و می گویی حق چنین کاری را دارد. معلوم نیست طرفدار کدام هستی، اینطوری صحیح نیست، یا باید فقط مخالفش باشی یا فقط موافق
> نه/ یا رومی روم یا زنگی زنگ
> Hope it helps.


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## Aloyalfriend

Stranger_ said:


> someone says this proverb to me, then does he mean that I am neither with him nor against him or that I am sometimes with him sometimes against him?


It simply means he is with your friend and is speaking high of him now, but he was against him(your friend) last night and was gossiping about him. It is not clear whether he hates your friend or likes him.


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## PersoLatin

> نه‌رومی روم نه زنگی‌زنگ


This saying sounds very much like نه به اين شورىِ شور، نه به اون بى نمكى i.e. keep to the middle ground & don't sway between extremes. At the time this saying was coined, political correctness was not a consideration, because it is saying:
نه به اين سفيدى، نه به اون سياهى


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## Aloyalfriend

نه به این شوری شور، نه به اون بی نمکی: همه چیز باید متعادل باشد، نه تفریط خوب است نه افراط- نه اهمال و کوتاهی، نه زیاده روی در کاری
 یا/نه رومی روم نه زنگی زنگ: یا با امام علی نماز بخون یا سر سفره معاویه اش بخور، یا این یا آن. نمی توان همزمان هم از چیزی طرفداری کرد و هم مخالف آن بود. باید تنها بر یک عقیده، نظر، تفکر پا بر جا بود و همزمان با تفکری مخالف ان تفکر، نباید موافقت کرد.


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## Aloyalfriend

For " نه به این شوری شور، نه به اون بی نمکی"، the below proverb seems good to me:
_Too much spoil, too little is nothing._


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## colognial

"یا رومی روم، یا زنگی زنگ" is how I, too, have heard this saying. It's a warning against doing things by half measures.


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## Aloyalfriend

" نه رومی روم نه زنگی زنگ" implies a sort of concept by which the speaker is trying to say that one should not be for and against something at the same time.


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> "یا رومی روم، یا زنگی زنگ" is how I, too, have heard this saying. It's a warning against doing things by half measures.


Hi colognial, i have not heard this saying (OP) in any context before, but if we go by the words alone, it says, 'neither one nor the other', i.e. warning against extremes.

Your version with يا, says, 'either one or the other', which to me is the opposite of the OP, and if this warns against doing things by half measures, one has to assume that the perception at the time was, the Romans & Africans did things by half measures.


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## Aloyalfriend

Hello!
" یا رومی روم یا زنگی زنگ" is the more common version. I mistakenly wrote "نه" instead of "یا". My apologies.
The main concept and message of this saying is as follows:
آدم نباید هم زمان هم طرفدار چیزی باشد و هم مخالف آن یا باید مخالف باشد یا موافق. هم زمان نباید در عین ابراز مخالفت نسبت به موضوعی ، از آن حمایت هم کند.
"نه به این شوری شور نه به اون بی نمکی " means:
آدم باید در تمامی کار هایش تعادل را حفظ نماید.برای مثال حاکمی تا دیروز حتی حقوق کارگران و‌خدمت کاران شهرش را نمی داد و به آن ها رسیدگی نمی کرد، اما الان نه تنها حقوقشان را می دهد بلکه جیره و‌ مواجب و خدماتی اضافی به مردم ارائه می دهد. در اینجا از ضرب المثل فوق استفاده می شود به معنای اینکه: آن حاکم نه باید تفریط کند و هیچ خدمتی به مردمش نکند و نه آنکه افراط کند و بیش از اندازه و حد معمول به آن ها خدمت کند و امکاناتی فراهم آورد.


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## colognial

PersoLatin said:


> Hi colognial, i have not heard this saying (OP) in any context before, but if we go by the words alone, it says, 'neither one nor the other', i.e. warning against extremes.
> 
> Your version with يا, says, 'either one or the other', which to me is the opposite of the OP, and if this warns against doing things by half measures, one has to assume that the perception at the time was, the Romans & Africans did things by half measures.



Hi, PersoLatin. "Romans and Africans" is a metaphor for such opposites as are both acceptable. The application of the proverb in its 'either ... or ...' form is in circumstances where one is prevaricating or is beset by indecision.


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## Aloyalfriend

Let me put it in other words, you may not choose first one and then the other alternative in order to suit your own convenience. It is often used in argument when an opponent shifts his ground.
As I mentioned earlier, the correct form is " یا رومی روم یا زنگی زنگ". 
I wrongly typed "نه" in lieu of "یا".


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