# uncountable nouns



## kansi

this would be a stupid question but let me risk it.

water is an uncountable noun.
humor is an uncountable noun.
weather is an uncountable noun.

but it seems all of these sentences meet different stardards to be uncountable nouns.
what are stardards to be a countable noun?

the simplest answer would be this is how it is.
another one is if we can count it or not.
But this sometimes confuses me because ,for example, sometimes in a single day, it's rainny ,cloudy and sunny. then I thought we could count them as three in these days and say three weather"s" but weather is an uncountable noun so we can't use "s".So the weather conditions in these days can be actually counted as three if we count but indeed it's an uncountable noun.

I am just curious about different ways to look at them:uncountable nouns.

hope this makes sence.


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## grassy

kansi said:


> but it seems all of these sentences meet different stardards to be uncountable nouns.



Could you please elaborate?


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## Piyush toplani

If we want to talk about an individual period of weather, we can use _spell_:

_We had a beautiful *spell of weather for* about a week, and then it rained for two weeks non-stop!

Source: _
dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/uncountable-nouns/weather

I hope it will help you a lot..


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## velisarius

We don't count three different kinds of weather in one day as "weathers". 

_The weather yesterday was very changeable. Today, the weather is more stable. _

It's still the weather, in the same way that we can talk about our friend John, who is so volatile that one minute he is happy and the next minute he is sunk in despair. In all his manifestations, he's still our friend John.


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## lingobingo

The terms countable and uncountable describe ways in which nouns are used. The majority of nouns can be used in multiple ways and their countability or otherwise varies according to context.

I’m having *difficulty* with this (uncountable)
There is *a difficulty* with this (countable)​
One rule-of-thumb for distinguishing a countable from an uncountable use is whether the noun can take a determiner such as much or [a] little, both of which only work with singular mass (uncountable) nouns.

*Much/Little thought* has gone into this (uncountable)
*A little thought* on your part would not go amiss (uncountable)
*Many thoughts* went through his head (countable)
*A thought* like that will give you nightmares (countable)​


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## PaulQ

kansi said:


> what are standards to be a countable noun?


The subject of countability is very, very, complex and only broad guidelines can be given here.

Very few nouns are not "countable." It is difficult to create "standards" as the countability of a noun is usually context dependent.

Nouns are not, in general "countable or uncountable": A noun is used countably/uncountably in order to express the speaker's/ writer's meaning. Uncountability is a function that nouns may have.

Nouns are used uncountably in order to describe a nuanced class of homogeneous objects that may differ slightly among themselves in some respects. They express the concept of that class and are abstract. These are usually, but not always, distinguishable from collective nouns that are a group of one identical type of object and may be singular or plural.

Nouns are used countably to describe individual instances of that noun. Countable nouns may be qualified by the adjective/quantifier "two".

1. strongly uncountable nouns are quite rare and are never used as countable: advice, guidance, evidence, jewellery. Attributive adjectives acting as substantives: the poor, the sick, etc. These nouns do not accept a/an even when adjectivally qualified.
2. chiefly uncountable nouns are rarely used as countable except in certain contexts: proof. Gerunds, verbal nouns. thise nouns can accept a/an when adjectivally qualified.
3. Generally uncountable nouns (often, but not always, food and drink) are used more frequently than their countable versions: coffee, milk, bread, potato etc.
4. Generally countable nouns  are used more frequently than their uncountable versions. The uncountable version is often, but not always, describes sentient beings or nouns used instrumentally). Dog, car, skill
5. Chiefly countable nouns - these nouns must be specific as to the type of object they describe and the object must exist in the plural, yet not as such as to create a class. (I can't think of any examples.)


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## kansi

velisarius said:


> We don't count three different kinds of weather in one day as "weathers".
> 
> _The weather yesterday was very changeable. Today, the weather is more stable. _
> 
> It's still the weather, in the same way that we can talk about our friend John, who is so volatile that one minute he is happy and the next minute he is sunk in despair. In all his manifestations, he's still our friend John.


thank you!
ahhh I see! that's very a great example I think to understand the concept of the word"weather".

And acctually this basically changed my concept of the word "weather".

weather is like the whole one situation when, for example, sometimes it's cloudy and sometimes sunny in a certain period.

But how about when one day it's cloudy, the next day is sunny, and the following day is rainny?we can't say "weathers in these there days are different.",right?


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## lingobingo

You can legitimately say “She takes the dog out for a walk in all weathers”. But “in all weathers” is a set phrase, and probably the ONLY colloquial example of weather being used in the plural (i.e. countably), although it may occasionally be appropriate in an academic/meteorological context.


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## sound shift

kansi said:


> But how about when one day it's cloudy, the next day is sunny, and the following day is rainny?we can't say "weathers in these there days are different.",right?


That's right. We can't say that.


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## kansi

sound shift said:


> That's right. We can't say that.


thank you!

how about saying "the weather
these days is different"? does it mean what I want to mean?

※I will definatly reply to those who I haven't yet..


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## heypresto

You can say that, but it means that the weather nowadays is different from what it was in the past. I don't think this is what you want it to mean.


(Note that we _always_ start sentences with a capital letter.)


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## kansi

heypresto said:


> You can say that, but it means that the weather nowadays is different from what it was in the past. I don't think this is what you want it to mean.
> 
> 
> (Note that we _always_ start sentences with a capital letter.)



Sorry and thank you!


How about saying " the weather in these three days is different." to mean the same?


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## kansi

Piyush toplani said:


> If we want to talk about an individual period of weather, we can use _spell_:
> 
> _We had a beautiful *spell of weather for* about a week, and then it rained for two weeks non-stop!
> 
> Source: _
> dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/uncountable-nouns/weather
> 
> I hope it will help you a lot..



thank you!

the word:spell is new to me, which I didn't expect I would get in an answer. I can rather focus on "time" in which weather is good if I use the word spell.

but can't we simply say "we have beautiful weather for about a week" instead to mean basically the same?


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> The terms countable and uncountable describe ways in which nouns are used. The majority of nouns can be used in multiple ways and their countability or otherwise varies according to context.
> 
> I’m having *difficulty* with this (uncountable)
> There is *a difficulty* with this (countable)​
> One rule-of-thumb for distinguishing a countable from an uncountable use is whether the noun can take a determiner such as much or [a] little, both of which only work with singular mass (uncountable) nouns.
> 
> *Much/Little thought* has gone into this (uncountable)
> *A little thought* on your part would not go amiss (uncountable)
> *Many thoughts* went through his head (countable)
> *A thought* like that will give you nightmares (countable)​


thank you!

I didn't make it clear enough that I wanted rather to know, in your case, how English has decided which nouns are countable, meaning they have indefinite articles, and which nouns are uncountable, meaning they don't have any indefinite article.

but I've realized through conversation with you guys that I might not need why it is
but need to know how to use maltiple ways of using uncountable nouns and how I understand them or how I picture them(?) like how I'd better image about it when I see an uncountable noun what kind of impression I'd better to get from an uncountable noun.


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Sorry and thank you!
> 
> 
> How about saying "*T*he weather in these three days is different." to mean the same?



No, that's not how we would say it. We'd say something like 'We've had three different sorts/types of weather these past three days.'



kansi said:


> *B*ut can't we simply say "*W*e have beautiful weather for about a week" instead to mean basically the same?



No, but we could say '_We've had_ beautiful weather for about a week.'


Please remember to start sentences with a capital letter.


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## Piyush toplani

kansi said:


> but can't we simply say "we have beautiful weather for about a week" instead to mean basically the same?


Yes, we can simply say " We have had beautiful weather for about a week " without using word "spell" but if you want to say different weather in different period of time of the day, then you have to use word "spell" because this word makes the word "weather" countable. For example;- "we had different spells of weather yesterday, the first spell was sunny ,then cloudy and then rainy."


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## kansi

heypresto said:


> No, that's not how we would say it. We'd say something like 'We've had three different sorts/types of weather these past three days.'
> 
> 
> 
> No, but we could say '_We've had_ beautiful weather for about a week.'
> 
> 
> Please remember to start sentences with a capital letter.


Thank you!

I see. But well does the same thing
also happen to the word ''humor''？

Bob and John are funny but have different humor.→wrong
Bob and John are funny but have different types of humor →correct?


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I see. But well does the same thing
> also happen to the word ''humor''？
> 
> Bob and John are funny but have different humor.→wrong
> Bob and John are funny but have different types of humor →correct?


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## kansi

PaulQ said:


> Nouns are not, in general "countable or uncountable": A noun is used countably/uncountably in order to express the speaker's/ writer's meaning. Uncountability is a function that nouns may have.


Thank you!

It's like not "this noun is an uncountable noun and that noun is an uncountable noun." but 'this noun can be used both countably and uncountably but that noun can be used only uncountably”.



PaulQ said:


> homogeneous objects that may differ slightly among themselves in some respects.



Can you give me some examaple of a homogeneous object?


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> although it may occasionally be appropriate in an academic/meteorological context.


Thank you!
So that means it's not always acceptable but sometimes it's so in an academic/meteorological context?


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## kansi

Piyush toplani said:


> Yes, we can simply say " We have had beautiful weather for about a week " without using word "spell" but if you want to say different weather in different period of time of the day, then you have to use word "spell" because this word makes the word "weather" countable. For example;- "we had different spells of weather yesterday, the first spell was sunny ,then cloudy and then rainy."


Thank you!

So the word''spell'' basically means same to ''type'' or ''sort''?


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## kansi

heypresto said:


>


Thank you!

How about saying these below?Is one of them correct?

①Humor which Bob and John have is different.
②The humor which Bob and John have is different.
③types of humor which Bob and John have are different.
④The types of humor which Bob and John have are different.


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So the word''spell'' basically means same to ''type'' or ''sort''?



No. A 'spell' in this context, means a period of time, not a sort or type.


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Thank you!
> 
> How about saying these below?Is one of them correct?
> 
> ①Humor which Bob and John have is different.
> ②The humor which Bob and John have is different.
> ③types of humor which Bob and John have are different.
> ④The types of humor which Bob and John have are different.



Only #4 is correct.


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## Piyush toplani

heypresto said:


> No. A 'spell' in this context, means a period of time, not a sort or type.


I agree with heypresto, spell is a period of time, we can smartly use it with weather to talk about different types of weather in a particular time period such as day.
We can use "type" to describe weather spell but the word "spell" is more specific/proper to use with weather.


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## kansi

heypresto said:


> Only #4 is correct.


Thank you!
I feel that I should have created another thread...let me ask.

Well,what kinds of wrong impression would I give if I say #3?


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## velisarius

Piyush toplani said:


> I agree with heypresto, spell is a period of time, we can smartly use it with weather to talk about different types of weather in a particular time period such as day.
> We can use "type" to describe weather spell but the word "spell" is more specific/proper to use with weather.




"A spell" of weather typically lasts for several days at least.


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## kansi

Piyush toplani said:


> I agree with heypresto, spell is a period of time, we can smartly use it with weather to talk about different types of weather in a particular time period such as day.
> We can use "type" to describe weather spell but the word "spell" is more specific/proper to use with weather.


Thank you!! I got it.
That means ''we have had different periods with different types of weather'',doesn't it?


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## Piyush toplani

kansi said:


> Thank you!! I got it.
> That means ''we have had different periods with different types of weather'',doesn't it?


Yes, you got it right,

1. We have had different periods with different types of weather?
2. We have had different spells of weather?
That above both sentences are same..


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## Piyush toplani

Collins Dictionary | Definition, Thesaurus and Translations

Velisarius but the above dictionary link says that spell is a short period of time.


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## kansi

Piyush toplani said:


> Yes, you got it right,
> 
> 1. We have had different periods with different types of weather?
> 2. We have had different spells of weather?
> That above both sentences are same..


Thank you so much!!
I'm still expecting other replies so give me a reply if you are still okay with it then.


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## Piyush toplani

You're welcome kansi


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## velisarius

"A short period of time" is of course relative, but it doesn't normally mean a few hours when we're talking about a spell of good or bad weather. 

Weather forecasters do talk about "sunny spells" within a 24 hour period, it's true, but ordinary people don't tend to use that vocabulary.


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## Piyush toplani

So Velisarius we have to say:
1. We have had different types of weather yesterday? 
So this is the correct sentence to talk about different types of weather in a day.


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## velisarius

We don't *have to* say any particular phrase. Your suggestion doesn't sound very idiomatic to me.

British weather is notoriously changeable. Personally, I might say:

_The weather was changeable yesterday. _


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Thank you!
> I feel that I should have created another thread...let me ask.
> 
> Well,what kinds of wrong impression would I give if I say #3?



The impression you would give is that you wrongly omitted the 'the' at the beginning of the sentence.


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## Piyush toplani

velisarius said:


> We don't *have to* say any particular phrase. Your suggestion doesn't sound very idiomatic to me.
> 
> British weather is notoriously changeable. Personally, I might say:
> 
> _The weather was changeable yesterday._



Thank you velisarius so we should use "spell" for a little bit long period of time (> 1 or 2 day)


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## velisarius

That's how I use it,  Piyush. In fact, we seem to be in for a cold spell here in Athens. The forecast for the next few days is not encouraging, but we can expect some more seasonable milder weather  before winter really sets in.


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## kansi

heypresto said:


> The impression you would give is that you wrongly omitted the 'the' at the beginning of the sentence.


Thank you!

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough...what I mean is omitting ''the'' there makes some controdictions to some parts of the sentence.So I asked what kinds of wrong senses or impressions omitting the''the'' there made.

Did I ask abouut it clear enough..?


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## kansi

Piyush toplani said:


> Thank you velisarius so we should use "spell" for a little bit long period of time (> 1 or 2 day)


I got it!

I've learnt one more here.


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## heypresto

I'm afraid I don't understand your question. The sentence will be wrong if you omit the article at the beginning. There won't be any contradictions or wrong senses or impressions - it will simply be wrong.


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## PaulQ

kansi said:


> Can you give me some example of a homogeneous object?


Coffee, anger, heat, allowance, etc.

All these words when used uncountably mean "anything that can be described as coffee, anger, heat, allowance, etc."


kansi said:


> what I mean is omitting ''the'' there creates some contradictions in some parts of the sentence.


The is a demonstrative adjective that is closely related to "that". It qualifies the noun with a meaning of "of which we are aware" or "of which we have spoken" or "which we now describe/specify."

"Weather is not restricted to Earth, Jupiter has weather." -> weather describes a concept of atmospheric disturbance. Uncountably the word "weather" encompasses everything that you can imagine that can be described as "weather".
"The weather on Earth is not the same as the weather on Jupiter -> "on Earth" and "on Jupiter" specifies the location of that particular weather and therefore "the" accentuates and confirms this partitive effect and may be included = the [particular/specific] type of weather.

Taking coffee as an example:
*Coffee *(uncountable) = all the coffee in the universe regardless of what form it takes, i.e. coffee plants, coffee beans, ground coffee beans, instant coffee, coffee that is the drink.

*The coffee* (countable) = That coffee which I have described, am describing now, or will describe; that type of coffee that I am specifically referring to, e.g. *the* coffee *that you grow*, *that you sell*, or *that you drink*. The coffee *that I am pointing at,* the coffee *that we spoke about*, etc.

A coffee = *One example of coffee* taken from all the forms in 1. This is *a* Brazilian/hot/expensive/bitter coffee.


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## kansi

heypresto said:


> I'm afraid I don't understand your question. The sentence will be wrong if you omit the article at the beginning. There won't be any contradictions or wrong senses or impressions - it will simply be wrong.


Thank you!

okay..sorry for that..
I should have asked more in detail;
I thought if I say #3 ;''different types of humor'', without a ''the'' in front of it, it would mean ''they have different types of humor'' with the sense that each of them or one of them has maltiple different types of humor and all the types of humor one has is different from all the types of humor the other has.

Does this make sense..?


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## lingobingo

kansi said:


> I am just curious about different ways to look at them: uncountable nouns.


A very useful explanation of uncountable nouns can be found here: Common Uncountable Nouns: Word List


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## kansi

PaulQ said:


> Coffee, anger, heat, allowance, etc.
> 
> All these words when used uncountably mean "anything that can be described as coffee, anger, heat, allowance, etc."
> 
> The is a demonstrative adjective that is closely related to "that". It qualifies the noun with a meaning of "of which we are aware" or "of which we have spoken" or "which we now describe/specify."
> 
> "Weather is not restricted to Earth, Jupiter has weather." -> weather describes a concept of atmospheric disturbance. Uncountably the word "weather" encompasses everything that you can imagine that can be described as "weather".
> "The weather on Earth is not the same as the weather on Jupiter -> "on Earth" and "on Jupiter" specifies the location of that particular weather and therefore "the" accentuates and confirms this partitive effect and may be included = the [particular/specific] type of weather.


Thank you!

I am not sure if this simple sentense can mean what I want to ask but let me ask it.

It's like the word ''weather'' already includes the sense that there might be one or different types of weather in weather when I say ''weather''.

Does this make sense?


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