# 知っていよう



## Kenshiromusou

Yo, friends. Could you help me again?
Re-reading Hokuto, I came across
きさまも*知っていよう*　　
世界最強の殺人拳　南斗無音拳を



What it this *よう*? Something like だろう? I learned about it, but I can't remember...  😅 
Thank you very much in advance.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Your red vertical line indicates の殺人.


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## gengo

Kenshiromusou said:


> きさまも*知っていよう*
> 世界最強の殺人拳　南斗無音拳を



It's something like "Let's give you a lesson in Nanto Muonken / South Dipper Silent Fist, shall we?"

I don't know whether it's better to translate the underlined part or not.



SoLaTiDoberman said:


> Your red vertical line indicates の殺人.



It's pretty obvious what Ken is asking about.  Just look at his post.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

gengo said:


> It's pretty obvious what Ken is asking about.  Just look at his post.


Yes. I know. I agree that it's quite obvious.

This is my second time informing him about it.
I wanted to give him a lesson about "common sense", "a common courtesy" or "the vertical writing rule for the Japanese language" or something.

It might not matter to those who don't mind if someone lines the _*"upper line"*_ instead of _"underline"_ in horizontal writing when the meaning is obvious.
However, it matters to me. I think those who use the "upper line" might be extraordinarily uneducated people.
Likewise, I think that such people drawing vertical lines to the left side seem to know nothing about the rules for vertical writing, and also maybe the Japanese language itself.

I was concerned about something different in this thread's main theme. For example, just like when I saw a thread searching for a tattoo design.
I don't think these "might be irrelevant things" from a certain viewpoint are unimportant. Although it's up to the moderator who might delete this.
I won't stop writing this until he corrects it, maybe.


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## Kenshiromusou

gengo said:


> It's something like "Let's give you a lesson in Nanto Muonken / South Dipper Silent Fist, shall we?"
> 
> I don't know whether it's better to translate the underlined part or not.
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty obvious what Ken is asking about.  Just look at his post.


I thought it was some 関西弁...  😅  It`s just volitional... Thank you very much, Gengoさん.


SoLaTiDoberman said:


> Yes. I know. I agree that it's quite obvious.
> 
> This is my second time informing him about it.
> I wanted to give him a lesson about "common sense", "a common courtesy" or "the vertical writing rule for the Japanese language" or something.
> 
> It might not matter to those who don't mind if someone lines the _*"upper line"*_ instead of _"underline"_ in horizontal writing when the meaning is obvious.
> However, it matters to me. I think those who use the "upper line" might be extraordinarily uneducated people.
> Likewise, I think that such people drawing vertical lines to the left side seem to know nothing about the rules for vertical writing, and also maybe the Japanese language itself.
> 
> I was concerned about something different in this thread's main theme. For example, just like when I saw a thread searching for a tattoo design.
> I don't think these "might be irrelevant things" from a certain viewpoint are unimportant. Although it's up to the moderator who might delete this.
> I won't stop writing this until he corrects it, maybe.





I was thinking about you when I used the red lines. I thought it was correct this this time😆 I forgot you said I should mark the right side. Sorry, my friend.


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## Flaminius

It's not volitional, but inferential*.  Your original post "Something like だろう?", therefore, was correct. 
"You must know / heard of the super dangerous kungfu so and so...."

Gengo's rendition is a liberal translation but it captures the Japanese nuances as a more natural English text.

*The inferential _-(y)ō_ belongs to a formal~quaint register, nowadays largely supplanted by だろう.  E.g., one could say, 彼が来ようとは思わなかった, but it is far more common to say, 彼が来るだろうとは思わなかった, or with a simplest form, 彼が来るとは思わなかった.

Edit: So, 貴様も南斗無音拳を知っていよう can be paraphrased into …を知っているだろう.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

One note is that modern people would never use these expressions in their actual life:

きさまも知っていよう。---> おまえも知っているだろう。
そなたわたし好きアルか？（神楽（銀魂））---> あなたは私のことが好きなんですか？
そなたもプリンが好きとな？マロと同じじゃな。（おじゃる丸）---> 君もプリンが好きなんだって？僕とおなじだね。
What hast thou?　---> What do you have?　

Anime creators would create funny Japanese adopting old Japanese grammar or something in order to add a special effect to their characters.
Therefore, you should not use these expressions in your daily talk, which seems really weird.
In other words, you should distinguish these expressions from modern standard Japanese.


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## KLAUSED

It sounds rather weird to me even as a quaint expression.
(a) 知っている→知っていよう❓ 知っておろう
(b) 言っている→言っていよう❓ 言って（言うて）おろう
(c) 見ている→見ていよう❓ 見ておろう
(d) 聞いている→聞いていよう❓ 聞いておろう
Without context, (c) and (d) would mean "let's keep watching/listening".

I googled ”知っていよう” to see how it's used.
いったい、人間の思いは、その内にある人間の霊以外に、だれが_知っていよう_か。
あなたが_知っていよう_がいまいが
the number は 「数； 回数」 を意味することぐらいは知っていよう。❓


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## Kenshiromusou

Reading Japanese text, I come across several unknown nuances and expressions. 関西弁 is already another nightmare... 😅 "I know that I _know nothing_"  😆  😆 
Thank you very much, Gengoさん, Solatidobermanさん, Flaminiusさん, Klausedさん.


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## Flaminius

Inferential ていよう can terminate a sentence elsewhere.  Google search finds a good number of hits for "示していよう。" in academic sites.  The oldest kyōgen manuscript attests to the collocation of いる + よう from a few centuries ago (「鬼瓦」『虎明本狂言集』 as per 日本語歴史コーパス CHJ): さだめて国本にハめ子共が待かねていようが…

It may be that terminating a sentence with 知っていよう is weird, but at least it's based on actual patterns found in authentic texts.


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## KLAUSED

Flaminius said:


> Inferential ていよう can terminate a sentence elsewhere.  Google search finds a good number of hits for "示していよう。" in academic sites.


I have no issue with the use of 示していよう shown in your link. Unlike 知っていよう→知っておろう, 示していよう→示しておろう does not work, suggesting that they are probably not the exact same grammatical structure.


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