# Merde alors !!



## Cornerman

Comment traduire l'agacement Fr->UK,US ressenti dans l'expression "merde alors!"

ex: C'est quand meme pas de ma faute, merde alors!?
Ca fait une semaine qu'on attend les informations sur ce dossier, c'est dingue çà, merde alors!

Ca fait très franchouillard mais bon...
Merci


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## 8jatpc

J'aime bien "bloody hell", mais je ne sais pas si ça convient ici


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## alisonp

No, I don't either . What I do know is that if I were going to use it I think it would have to go earlier in the sentence, possibly at the beginning.

Possibly, for US use especially, "Hell," at the beginning of the sentence?


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## emma42

Bonjour, cornerman.  Il y en a beaucoup de fils au sujet de "merde".  Try "Search this Forum".  Il est difficule de proposer une seule traduction pour "merde alors" parce que ça dépendra  du  contexte.


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## doodlebugger

My personal favorite: _for crying out loud!_


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## Agnès E.

Cornerman said:


> Comment traduire l'agacement Fr->UK,US ressenti dans l'expression "merde alors!"
> 
> ex: C'est quand meme pas de ma faute, merde alors!?
> Ca fait une semaine qu'on attend les informations sur ce dossier, c'est dingue çà, merde alors!
> 
> Ca fait très franchouillard mais bon...
> Merci


Pour aider nos amis anglophones à mieux trouver l'équivalent, j'ajouterais à votre contexte que l'indignation se mêle à l'agacement ou à la colère.


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## Cornerman

emma, j'ai lu les threads précèdents mais sans trouver mon bonheur... C'est aussi pourquoi j'ai mis qq exemples...


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## GEmatt

_Mais enfin... il y en a tellement..._

-"for crying out loud" _pourquoi pas_
-for goodness' sakes _me semble convenir: indignation + agacement _

_Plus fort:_
-for chrissakes ("for Christ's sakes")
-for god's sakes

_Plus fort encore:_
_Par PM!_

_GEmatt_


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## Agnès E.

Je me demande si les anglophones ne mettraient leur interjection en début de phrase, alors que nous la mettons à la fin....


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## Docbike

....and if you feel *very *strongly, there is the commonly (but not to the Queen) used "..for F**K sake"


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## emma42

Ah, désolée, cornerman.

Oui, Agnès, je crois que nous le disons en début un tantinet plus souvent qu'à la fin. C'est plus fort en début, je crois....

Edit:  Oui, "for fuck's sake" est très souvent utilisé, mais pas devant la grandmère.


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## phatkat

Americans also like to say 'God dammit!'

I like;
For God's/ Christ's sake (but I want to go to heaven, so I'll also suggest
For goodness sake (very polite)
For fuck's sake (very impolite and more informal)
Bloody hell! (for expressing exasperation is brilliant.)

It's quite acceptable to say 'for God's sake' its used quite a lot


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## GEmatt

I have a problem with "for fuck's sake". Apart from the expression itself (I concur with the last three warnings on its use), it doesn't quite fit the tone of the examples given.  I may be imagining things, but if I were to use "for fuck's sake" in either of those sentences, I reckon I wouldn't come across as exasperated or annoyed, so much as plain vulgar...
GEmatt


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## belleaspen86

"Gosh!" is also a good phrase to use.  It's almost like "God!" but people say it to steer away from using the Lord's name in vain and other such things.


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## Canard

For your first sentence, I recommend: Well it's not MY fault, is it?? / It's not my own damn fault is it??

For the second, I think you might have to reflect the exasperation elsewhere in the sentence, such as: We've been waiting on the information for this file for a god damn / freaking / whole damn week, it's 
absurd!/ridiculous!/crazy!


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## rathersane

Agnès E. said:


> Je me demande si les anglophones ne mettraient leur interjection en début de phrase, alors que nous la mettons à la fin....



On mets la interjection en la pièce plus importante de la phrase (aux EU):

It doesn't mean a _damn_ thing.

_Damn it!_ If I've told you once, I've told you a million times...

What _the hell_ do you think you are doing?
_Je ne sais pas pour quoi, mais nous ne disons jamais "what the damn..."_

I'm going now, _damn it!_

Mais, pour le débutant, je suggère que on utilise la interjection en debut.


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## samala_cali

I've never heard anyone in America say "For F**k's sake!"

However, I like to say "For Pete's sake!"


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## MadameX

For f**k's sake is widely used in Canada, although very crass


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## NaKkA

Hello guys,

I think you could use "what the fuck", or "what the hell"
e.g: what the hell are you doing with the documents you had to submit last week?


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## Nicomon

MadameX said:


> For f**k's sake is widely used in Canada


 
I'm not sure I agree with that. Can't remember hearing it in my neighbourhood. Besides, it definitely doesn't work in context. "Merde alors" is not that strong. 

So far, I think Canard and Gematt gave the best solutions. I also like FCOL.


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## flyer236

in the first sentence, i would probably use "for crying out loud", but probably at the start of the sentence:

" For crying out loud, it's hardly my fault is it! "


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## broglet

"For crying out loud" is an interesting example of something that starts out as a swear word (fuck) being transformed into something innocuous. Another example is "sugar" (which starts out as shit).  

Est-ce que ça arrive aussi en français?


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## Kelly B

Vulgar but not forbidden on TV, and perhaps more suited to teenagers: this/that _sucks_!


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## laurendrick

We Irish tend to use expletives alot.
Personally, I would translate it as "For fuck sake". "For crying out loud" makes a polite alternative though!


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## EnIrAc

broglet said:


> "For crying out loud" is an interesting example of something that starts out as a swear word (fuck) being transformed into something innocuous. Another example is "sugar" (which starts out as shit).
> 
> Est-ce que ça arrive aussi en français?


Oui bien sûr Broglet! Some swear or vulgar words are used in the everyday language by some people.
But I don't know if I would dare to write them here


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## JazzByChas

Je crois que la traduiction littéral, "Shit!" est une expression propre, et bien utilisé. En Amerique, on peut adjut la interjection au début où à la fin.

Par exemple:
"Shit!  After all, it's not my fault!"
ou bien,
"Shit!  We've been waiting for this file for a week, and it's ridiculous!"

À la fin:

"After, all, it's not my fault, for God's sake!"
ou,
"We've been waiting on this file for a week, and it's just plain stupid, for God's sake!"


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## rathersane

I always say "for f*ck's sake," and I'm about as American as they come!


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## SFguy

Samala_cali's very right on that. Jamais dans la vie have I heard  "for f**k's sake!" I guess people do it in Canada and UK. But, ca marche pas  in American English. Similarly, Americans never use the word "bloody" like the Brits!  

For "Pete's sake" may be a bit too light, depending on the context.  

Much stronger is "for Chist's sake!"  (E.g., my father might exclaim, "for Christ's sake!" while my mother would say "for Pete's sake" or "well, for the love of Pete!" 

Actually, if you saw Fargo (a great film to hear Minnesota and North Dakota regional accents seldom documented), Frances McDormand's character says "Oh for Pete's sake" any number of times.  

"Merde alors" at the end of a sentence could still work in English just by saying "shit!"  It should be said slowly, about 3-4 syllables' duration.  That you could do either at the start of the end of the sentence.  (I prefer the end for maximum impact!) 



samala_cali said:


> I've never heard anyone in America say "For F**k's sake!"
> 
> However, I like to say "For Pete's sake!"


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## pheelineerie

SFguy said:


> Samala_cali's very right on that. Jamais dans la vie have I heard "for f**k's sake!" I guess people do it in Canada and UK. But, ca marche pas in American English.


 
Résultats *1* - *10* sur un total d'environ *235 000* pour *"for fuck's sake"*. (and that's just one way it's spelled)

It is very common in my book as well as google's.  (you can see there are many US sites)

Also, a nice little variation (not common) *For Pete's sack*
Also: *I swear to God...*
*For the love o' Christ...*
etc...

I also agree wholeheartedly with "for crying out loud".


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## alisonp

SFguy said:


> Samala_cali's very right on that. Jamais dans la vie have I heard "for f**k's sake!" I guess people do it in Canada and UK. But, ca marche pas in American English.


It *is* used over here.  I can date it back to about 1993 when I first heard it.  I remember it struck me forcibly as nonsensical because, after all, "fuck" is not a proper noun (and I'm not sure you can use it as a noun at all without an indefinite article preceding it), so how you can add "'s sake" to it is beyond me.

Anyway, I think any phrase using the F-word is going to be of an inappropriately coarse register to replace the French original.


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## valvende

GEmatt said:


> _Mais enfin... il y en a tellement..._
> 
> -"for crying out loud" _pourquoi pas_
> -for goodness' sakes _me semble convenir: indignation + agacement _
> 
> _Plus fort:_
> -for chrissakes ("for Christ's sakes")
> -for god's sakes
> 
> _Plus fort encore:_
> _Par PM!_
> 
> _GEmatt_


 

that is the ones I prefer goodness'sakes it quite good ,


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## broglet

valvende said:


> that is the ones I prefer goodness'sakes it quite good ,


in all these expressions we say 'sake', not 'sakes'


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## EnIrAc

JazzByChas said:


> Je crois que la traduiction littéral, "Shit!" est une expression propre, et bien utilisé. En Amerique, on peut adjut la interjection au début où à la fin.
> 
> Par exemple:
> "Shit! After all, it's not my fault!"
> ou bien,
> "Shit! We've been waiting for this file for a week, and it's ridiculous!"
> 
> À la fin:
> 
> "After, all, it's not my fault, for God's sake!"
> ou,
> "We've been waiting on this file for a week, and it's just plain stupid, for God's sake!"


En français "_merde"_ est très utilisé. Au début ou à la fin d'une phrase.

_Merde!_ J'ai oublié la clé de ma voiture chez Louise.

On a attendu une heure pour rien, _merde!_ (ou merde alors!) 

ou même seul, comme _shit_ en anglais!

_Merde!_ and sometimes by stressing both vowels : _Meeerdeee!!! _

_"For God's sake" _means "_pour l"amour de Dieu_" also used much in French : 

_Pour l'amour de Dieu_ Sarah, mets de l'ordre dans ta chambre! (autobiographical! )

In the South of France, in Provence, with their typical accent, they say :

_Oh peuchère!_ a hundred times each day  It's a cute word to say all and nothing.

_Oh peuchère,_ il m'énnerve celui-là!

Il va pleuvoir. _Oh peuchère_, vite on rentre.

Personnellement je dis souvent _"punaise"_ (means _bug_, the insect): 

_Punaise!_ Encore attendre une heure avant d'entrer?

Encore attendre une heure avant d'entrer? _Punaise!_

The tennagers (and less young people...) use _putain_ : 

_Putain!_ j'en ai marre d'étudier.

Usually in the beginning of the sentence or alone (like "fuck" in English)


Punaise, it's time for me to go now


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## Nicomon

alisonp said:


> Anyway, I think any phrase using the F-word is going to be of an inappropriately coarse register to replace the French original.


 
I agree entirely. The question here is not to find out who does or doesn't say "for fuck's sake" or how it should be spelled.  I find it odd and don't remember hearing it in Quebec, but that's beside the point. I suppose it depends in what part of town/country one lives. Now imo, phrases using God/Christ are not the right register either. 


> SFguy "Merde alors" at the end of a sentence could still work in English just by saying "shit!" It should be said slowly, about 3-4 syllables' duration.


 
That works for me. However I think that adding _alors_ makes it even lighter.

Merde (by itself) = shit
Merde alors = for crying out loud / for goodness' sake


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## broglet

pheelineerie said:


> Also, a nice little variation (not common) *For Pete's sack*


I take it you mean 'sake' 

By the way, a common variant (at least in the UK) is 'for heaven's sake'


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## Sadoudou

broglet said:


> "For crying out loud" is an interesting example of something that starts out as a swear word (fuck) being transformed into something innocuous. Another example is "sugar" (which starts out as shit).
> 
> Est-ce que ça arrive aussi en français?


 
Bonjour,
Do you mean like when I want to say 'Putain' and instead I would say 'Pu...naise' ('punaise' is less vulgar than 'putain')?

There is also 'Mercredi' instead of 'Merde' (for kids).

Sadoudou


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## broglet

Sadoudou said:


> Bonjour,
> Do you mean like when I want to say 'Putain' and instead I would say 'Pu...naise' ('punaise' is less vulgar than 'putain')?
> 
> There is also 'Mercredi' instead of 'Merde' (for kids).
> 
> Sadoudou


Précisément ... c'est 'mer ... credi'? (and only for kids?)?


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## Sadoudou

Je voulais dire qu'on peut dire 'mercredi' au lieu de merde et que les enfants à qui on n'autorise pas le mot 'merde' s'amusent parfois à utliser le mot 'mercredi' à la place qui n'est pas un gros mot !!
Vous voyez ce que je veux dire ?


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## pheelineerie

broglet said:


> I take it you mean 'sake'


 
Not at all, darling


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## broglet

Sadoudou said:


> Je voulais dire qu'on peut dire 'mercredi' au lieu de merde et que les enfants à qui on n'autorise pas le mot 'merde' s'amusent parfois à utliser le mot 'mercredi' à la place qui n'est pas un gros mot !!
> Vous voyez ce que je veux dire ?


Absolument! mais c'est très intéressant, ça! En Angleterre c'est même les adultes - qui ne s'autorisent pas les mots 'fuck' et 'shit' - qui disent 'fu ... crying out loud' et 'sh ... ugar'! En France ce n'est que les enfants?


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## CélineK.

Pardonnez-moi, mais je voudrais encourager l'usage du mot "shit"
"Merde, alors" c'est peut-être plus près de "well, shit!"
"Shit" est aussi un des mots le plus utile de la langue anglaise.
C'est un nom, bien sur.  "The shit hit the fan."  "We're in deep shit."
C'est un verb. "I could just shit."
C'est un adjectif.  "What a shitty day!"
Les possibilités sont interminables.  A propos de la question originale:
"Well shit!  It's not even my fault!"
"Well shit!  We've been waiting on the information on this file for a week!  This is crazy!"
Ça garde aussi l'exasperation qu'on veut.  On peut visiter ici pour apprendre plus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit
Merci!


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## broglet

CélineK. said:


> Pardonnez-moi, mais je voudrais encourager l'usage du mot "shit"
> "Merde, alors" c'est peut-être plus près de "well, shit!"
> "Shit" est aussi un des mots le plus utile de la langue anglaise.
> C'est un nom, bien sur. "The shit hit the fan." "We're in deep shit."
> C'est un verb. "I could just shit."
> C'est un adjectif. "What a shitty day!"
> Les possibilités sont interminables. A propos de la question originale:
> "Well shit! It's not even my fault!"
> "Well shit! We've been waiting on the information on this file for a week! This is crazy!"
> Ça garde aussi l'exasperation qu'on veut. On peut visiter ici pour apprendre plus:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit
> Merci!


To further this coprological exegesis, it should be noted that "holy shit" became one of the most famous utterances on the planet when it was uttered by a New Yorker watching one of the 9/11 planes heading towards the twin towers ...


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## jadedjd

Really?  I say "For f*ck('s) sake" more than I'd like to admit (assez impoli, mais cela se dit entres copains ou collegues de travail).  I have also started using the word "effing" (not really a word).  As in "we have been waiting for that file for an effing week."


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## SFguy

Thanks to EnIrRac and Sadoudou for the informative clarifications!

Maybe it's off-topic, but I'm actually surprised to hear of the regional differences in Canadians and American English. Often Americans have no idea when they are speaking to Canadians in English--whereas that seems to never be the case among French speakers.   

Nicoman's on target about trying to find the "right register." There's a kind of temperature scale in effect with whatever expression is used. Some words are hotter than others. It helps to know these things!  

Example: Until recently "shit" in English has had a higher temperature, so to speak, than "merde" in French. "Shit" would always be censured on tv.

Now we see foreign films re-released with new subtitle tracks that more accurately translate swear words and no longer dilute the colorful expressions that offended censors and audiences 30 years ago. 

It's ridiculous to think of a soldier on a battlefield yelling "je m'en fiche!" instead of "je m'en fous!", and yet English translators might have translated "I don't give a darn." (And if it got translated, "for pete's sake" an audience would be laughing.) 

Remember that it was with Autant en emport le vent that the US censors allowed Clark Gable to say "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."  What was considered so strong in 1939 carries no such impact today--which would now be "Frankly my dear, I don't give a fuck!"  if we really wanted the same shock appeal. 




Sadoudou said:


> Je voulais dire qu'on peut dire 'mercredi' au lieu de merde et que les enfants à qui on n'autorise pas le mot 'merde' s'amusent parfois à utliser le mot 'mercredi' à la place qui n'est pas un gros mot !!
> Vous voyez ce que je veux dire ?


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## EnIrAc

SFguy said:


> It's ridiculous to think of a soldier on a battlefield yelling "je m'en fiche!" instead of "je m'en fous!", and yet English translators might have translated "I don't give a darn." (And if it got translated, "for pete's sake" an audience would be laughing.)


I definitely agree with you SFguy about the translation in the subtitles of movies. As you say, It helps to know these things. 

_Je m'en fous_ is hotter than _je m'en fiche _
More spicy _: j'en ai rien à glander!_

_Shit _and_ merde _ne sont plus considérés comme des mots vulgaires de nos jours par la majorité des gens.

le verbe _merder_ est aussi très utilisé:

John : _Ah zut!_
Peter :_Quoi, qu'y a-t-il?_
John : _Je crois que j'ai merdé. (merder _means _to fail_ in this case_)_


Even if we try that the kids do not use them, when they get teenagers...


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## jadedjd

Pourquoi vous m'emmerdez?


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## wildan1

I am joining this thread late, but surprised that no one has cited one of my favorite equivalents for _merde, alors!:_

_Jesus H. Christ! We've been waiting to get that file for a week! _
(yes, I agree; the strongest epithets come at the beginning of the sentece--that way they get everyone's attention!)


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## EnIrAc

jadedjd said:


> Pourquoi vous m'emmerdez?


lol jadedjd!  

Emmerder, c'est encore autre chose (very used too...) It's rather a slang word for saying to bore someboby stiff, to annoy, etc...

There's the link for the threat about this word : 

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=179702


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## Sadoudou

broglet said:


> Absolument! mais c'est très intéressant, ça! En Angleterre c'est même les adultes - qui ne s'autorisent pas les mots 'fuck' et 'shit' - qui disent 'fu ... crying out loud' et 'sh ... ugar'! En France ce n'est que les enfants?


 
Non non ! Ce ne sont pas que les enfants qui le disent... mais j'ai l'impression que les adultes qui l'utilisent le font surtout s'ils s'adressent à des enfants. Ces derniers comprennent très bien et peuvent ensuite s'en amuser en l'utilisant ausi.
Moi, par exemple, je ne dis jamais "Mercredi" :  je dis simplement "Merde" (peut-être 1000 fois par jour d'ailleurs) car ce n'est pas très vulgaire et c'est vraiment entré dans le langage courant... même si on évite de le dire aux enfants.


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## EnIrAc

Sadoudou a tout à fait raison  

Et j'aime bien son "_peut-être 1000 fois par jour d'ailleurs" _ 

C'est valable pour beaucoup de personnes, moi y compris  C'est vraiment un réflexe, comme "_flûte!_" ou "_zut!_". Exactement comme "_shit_" en anglais.


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## Sadoudou

'Flûte' ou 'zut', c'est quand même plus mignon que 'merde'.
Un de mes collègues disait toujours 'Crotte de Bique' ce qui est complètement désuet, mais très marrant... Du coup, on avait tous pris ce reflexe dans le bureau et on rigolait bien. Mais quand je le disais en dehors du bureau, on me regardait quand même bizarrement !


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## broglet

EnIrAc said:


> Sadoudou a tout à fait raison
> 
> Et j'aime bien son "_peut-être 1000 fois par jour d'ailleurs" _
> 
> C'est valable pour beaucoup de personnes, moi y compris  C'est vraiment un réflexe, comme "_flûte!_" ou "_zut!_". Exactement comme "_shit_" en anglais.


'Shit' is not used so freely by the English.  It is a much more unpleasant word than 'merde'.  

The words 'fuck' or 'fucking' get used far more (even between syllables, as in "it's absofuckinglutely terrible!").  These words have thereby become _relatively_ inoffensive, although they remain rather vulgar.


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## EnIrAc

broglet said:


> 'Shit' is not used so freely by the English. It is a much more unpleasant word than 'merde'.
> 
> The words 'fuck' or 'fucking' get used far more (even between syllables, as in "it's absofuckinglutely terrible!"). These words have thereby become _relatively_ inoffensive, although they remain rather vulgar.


"Fucking" is less vulgar than "shit" in English?? 

The translation of "fucking" in French is very vulgar! 

Funny to insert it in the middle of a word like in your example


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## broglet

EnIrAc said:


> "Fucking" is less vulgar than "shit" in English??


not necessarily less vulgar, but less offensive and less emphatic (although this is just my opinion and I'd be interested in the views of other anglophone natives)


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## EnIrAc

Sadoudou said:


> 'Flûte' ou 'zut', c'est quand même plus mignon que 'merde'.


Oui tout à fait, c'est pour ça que je les prends comme exemples pour expliquer que "_merde"_, qui est nettement moins mignon, passe quand même assez bien sans choquer.

Quant à _"Crotte de bique"_ je connais aussi. Mais peu utilisé. Je comprends qu'on te regarde bizarrement quand tu l'utilises ailleurs qu'au boulot. C'est pourtant très mignon. J'ai une amie Bordelaise qui me le sort souvent.
On entend _"crotte"_ tout court aussi. Ma grand-mère l'utilisait, ça me faisait rire


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## alisonp

Well, I must say, I have *never* come across "for crying out loud" as a replacement for "fuck" (in fact, I just started saying it a minute ago when I tried to post and realised that my stupid computer hadn't kept me logged in *again* - and despite my recent postings here I wouldn't normally use the F-word at all).  AFAIC, it's always had a separate life of its own.  "Fudge" instead of "fuck", yes, just as "sugar" instead of "shit", but nothing else.


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## wildan1

I think a good measure of this is what you would say/hear usually in an office.

My French colleagues often seem to use _merde _and_ s'en foutre _in a collegial discussion--about work, I mean, not just to joke.

I have never heard an American colleague use _shit _or_ fuck_ in the same collegial business context in all the several places I have worked here. _Damn, hell,_ yes, but not the _"f-word"_ (as it is commonly called here to discuss its use without saying it) or _shit_. I think we are just more puritanical about this.


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## pheelineerie

broglet said:


> The words 'fuck' or 'fucking' get used far more (even between syllables, as in "it's absofuckinglutely terrible!").


 
Did you know there's a name for this?

*Expletive infixation* is a process by which an expletive or profanity is inserted into a word, usually for intensification. It is similar to tmesis, but not all instances are covered by the usual definition of _tmesis_ because the words are not necessarily compounds.

Examples:
ri-cock-ulous 
un-fucking-believable 
abso-fucking-lutely 

... etc. Fun eh?


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## wildan1

A twist on that phenomenon: 

I had an American colleague once whose French was..._original. _He called everyone one "vous", including his neighbor's dog, because he could never remember the difference between _tu _and _vous_ and didn't want to offend anyone.

When he got really churned up about something he would exclaim, _je m'en tout-à-fait fous ! _always resulting in everyone's immediate laughter. Poor guy, he had a hard time getting people to take him seriously when he was upset...


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## broglet

pheelineerie said:


> Did you know there's a name for this?
> 
> *Expletive infixation* is a process by which an expletive or profanity is inserted into a word, usually for intensification. It is similar to tmesis, but not all instances are covered by the usual definition of _tmesis_ because the words are not necessarily compounds.
> 
> Examples:
> ri-cock-ulous
> un-fucking-believable
> abso-fucking-lutely
> 
> ... etc. Fun eh?


 
Blessed excrement!  Thanks.  I have never heard either the tmesis unfuckingbelievable or the expletive infixation unbefuckinglievable, but I fancy the latter is more likely.  As for the riprickulous word 'ricockulous', which is not any kind of expletive infixation, but more of a homophonic penile interchange, it must be as rare as hen's teeth.


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## broglet

wildan1 said:


> A twist on that phenomenon:
> 
> I had an American colleague once whose French was..._original. _He called everyone one "vous", including his neighbor's dog, because he could never remember the difference between _tu _and _vous_ and didn't want to offend anyone.
> 
> When he got really churned up about something he would exclaim, _je m'en tout-à-fait fous ! _always resulting in everyone's immediate laughter. Poor guy, he had a hard time getting people to take him seriously when he was upset...


I once heard a hammering noise coming from the open window of a maison gardoise stop suddenly, then a very British voice shouted 'Aaargh! I've had efuckingnough of these poutres'


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## alisonp

There's an art in knowing quite where to ... infix ... the expletive, too .  I can imagine a non-native speaker fouling *that* up good and proper.  (Incidentally, non-native speakers should be very careful about swearing: we used to have some North African students in my university residences, and they used to swear like troopers, but it just sounded really silly!)


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## DearPrudence

EnIrAc said:


> Quant à _"Crotte de bique"_ je connais aussi. Mais peu utilisé. Je comprends qu'on te regarde bizarrement quand tu l'utilises ailleurs qu'au boulot. C'est pourtant très mignon. J'ai une amie Bordelaise qui me le sort souvent.
> On entend _"crotte"_ tout court aussi. Ma grand-mère l'utilisait, ça me faisait rire


Oui, c'est vrai que c'est mignon. Je commence à avoir l'impression que mon "crotte de bique et bonbon noir" est un régionalisme   



Sadoudou said:


> Bonjour,
> Do you mean like when I want to say 'Putain' and instead I would say 'Pu...naise' ('punaise' is less vulgar than 'putain')?


 My mother says "*punaise*" quite a lot, she doesn't even hesitate for a second and she does mean to say "punaise" in the first place.
 Personally when I remember at the last minute that I must be polite I rather go for "*pu ... rée*"



wildan1 said:


> I am joining this thread late, but surprised that no one has cited one of my favorite equivalents for _merde, alors!:_
> _Jesus H. Christ! We've been waiting to get that file for a week! _
> (yes, I agree; the strongest epithets come at the beginning of the sentece--that way they get everyone's attention!)


Jeez, I didn't know that expression. Funny 

Ah la la, dès qu'il y a un titre comme "merde alors", ça part dans tous les sens  
Allez, je ne m'en lasse pas, pour ceux qui veulent rester polis :
*"Swearing politely" in French and English:  Expressions of annoyance and disbelief* - copyright geve


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## Nicomon

alisonp said:


> (Incidentally, non-native speakers should be very careful about swearing: we used to have some North African students in my university residences, and they used to swear like troopers, but it just sounded really silly!)


 
For instance avoid trying to swear like an impolite French Quebecer (no examples needed, I'm sure) if you're not a « _pure laine_ ». It usually sounds really silly too.


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## broglet

alisonp said:


> There's an art in knowing quite where to ... infix ... the expletive, too . I can imagine a non-native speaker fouling *that* up good and proper. (Incidentally, non-native speakers should be very careful about swearing: we used to have some North African students in my university residences, and they used to swear like troopers, but it just sounded really silly!)


A fascinating observation.  I suspect it is because natural swearing is not merely linguistic, but cultural: not just a question of knowing the words, but the tone of voice too.  
The phenomenon is not confined to swearing.  I have tried prefixing sentences with "bon ben .. '; I feel uncomfortable and from the way I am looked at I must sound pretty silly.  For similar reasons I have felt uncomfortable when greeting the air 'Messieurs, dames' in boulangeries, the way real French people do all the time (British people find it hard enough to greet individuals they know, let alone groups of strangers).  'Merde' is probably easier for foreigners to use than 'bon ben', or 'messieurs, dames' (because it has more of a meaning) but there's still plenty of room to get it wrong.  If I were to devise an advanced test of fluency it would look at the use of expressions such as 'merde', 'messieurs, dames' and 'bon ben' as well as the gallic shrug


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## KaRiNe_Fr

wildan1 said:


> [...] _Jesus H. Christ! We've been waiting to get that file for a week! _[...]


This is the funniest so far! 
I always thought Jesus was born in _Provence_... but now I definitely know he is american. 
Can I say this one to irish people?  (without shocking them I mean...)


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## EnIrAc

broglet said:


> If I were to devise an advanced test of fluency it would look at the use of expressions such as 'merde', 'messieurs, dames' and 'bon ben' as well as the gallic shrug


Lol Broglet  !!

Bon ben, M'sieurs Dames, on va y aller ou merde?  ("_merde_" means "_ou non_" is this case)

I agree with you about the fact that natural swearing is not merely linguistic, but cultural: not just a question of knowing the words, but the tone of voice too. 

Swearing is a reflex. Thus, except for a word like "yessss!" (accompanied with raising the fist) which is an "anglicisme" some people use when they win a game for example, when we swear, I mean the reflex stays to do it in our mother tong. As French is mine, I'm sure if I had to live in a foreing country, I'd keep on swearing in French.
Maybe after living abroad for a long time, it could become also a reflex to swear in the language of the country where we live, but not sure.

Dans les magasins, je dis simplement _bonjour "_à la volée_"_ à tout le monde. Pareil pour _au revoir. _J'entends _"M'sieurs Dames"_ aussi, mais plus souvent utilisé par les hommes. Si je connais quelqu'un, je lui dis un bonjour plus personnalisé, cela dépend du degré de connaissance.
Quelqu'un qui ne dit ni bonjour ni au revoir dans un magasin chez nous est considéré comme pas très poli et pas très sociable.

Merde! Le temps passe vite. Bon ben j' vous quitte M'sieurs Dames


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## acemach

Salut!

It does seem like discussions with vulgarity are the most popular. 

Well I do happen to be a teenager, so I hear and speak these expletives a few thousand times a day.

well, back to the topic: Merde alors!
I think some kind of Holy will do: Holy crap or holy shit. Not for the un-blasphemous.

If it's to express frustration or exasperation, here we say simply: Awwwwww, CRAP! or Awwwwwww, SHIT! 

We do tend towards pronouncing our craps and shits rather fast, so the Aw adds an elongating effect.

Considering the linguistic diversity here, every self-respecting teenager can swear in 4 languages and mix them around. (muahaha) Still, I think Shit is the most used one.

The thing about vulgarity is that its emotional value only makes it harder to translate directly. Since French expletives seem as flexible as English ones, there are just too many contexts, and too many differences. That's why I think it takes years of soaking up a culture to be able to swear properly, like a foreigner trying to speak in Malaysian Street English (or Manglish, we call it here), or, indeed, any form of street language anywhere in the world =]

Merci!
Ace


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## Louise :-)

I wouldn't say 'for crying out loud', it's a bit old fashioned.


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## Lechatnoir

an emphatic "GOD!!!!" is favored by women at the end of a sentence such as the ones given. Men are more expressive. "F**K" is favored quite often by men. YOu can use these as seperate utterances, said -after- the sentence, not attached to it.  

Well its not MY fault, is it??? GOD!!


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## laurendrick

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> This is the funniest so far!
> I always thought Jesus was born in _Provence_... but now I definitely know he is american.
> Can I say this one to irish people?  (without shocking them I mean...)




Say what to Irish people? "Jesus H. Christ" or that Jesus was born in Provence?

As an Irish person, I can safely say that neither would shock or offend me!


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## Welshleprechaun

Est-ce qu'on peut dire "putain alors" au lieu de "merde alors"?


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## Bobbum

Shit on a stick! is one I've always liked.


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## Pedro y La Torre

laurendrick said:


> We Irish tend to use expletives alot.
> Personally, I would translate it as "For fuck sake". "For crying out loud" makes a polite alternative though!



Very true. Cursing in Ireland is so widespread that, in an informal situation, "for fuck's sake" wouldn't shock anyone but the most uptight.

Hence, I'd definitely favour it as a translation for "merde alors".


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## EnIrAc

Welshleprechaun said:


> Est-ce qu'on peut dire "putain alors" au lieu de "merde alors"?


Non, _"putain!"_ s'utilise seul.
ou 
"_putain, *ça* alors!"_ ou encore plus vulgaire "_putain de merde!_" et on peut encore en rajouter ... 

Pour éviter de dire "_putain!"_ on dit souvent "_pu...naise!"_ (punaise = 
drawing pin)
ou "pu...rée" (purée = mashed potatoes.) Comme ça on a le début du mot mais une autre fin. Ca ne veut rien dire mais ça évite d'être vulgaire


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## Welshleprechaun

Haha j'ai entendu qqn qui a dit "purée" comme ça. C,a me semble comme "sugar"  en anglais.


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## EnIrAc

Welshleprechaun said:


> Haha j'ai entendu qqn qui a dit "purée" comme ça. C,a me semble comme "sugar" en anglais.


 
_"purée!" _?? Non! ça n'est pas du tout l'équilavent de "_sugar"_ , qui est un mot doux et gentil..  

Pour "_sugar"_ on peut dire : ma puce, ma cocotte, ma chérie, ma louloutte, etc... il y en a beaucoup .. 

_"purée!" _marque l'étonnement ou l'agacement, tout comme "_punaise"_

_"merde!"_ tout seul aussi mais c'est très familier (quoique..)

_"Merde alors!_ c'est plus l'étonnement ou la déception (mais l'agacement aussi : "_merde alors! je n'ai pas gagné au lotto"_ (tout comme "_mince alors_" si on veut être plus poli 

En fait ça dépend du contexte...et de l'humeur


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## vanya1238

Bien sur que c'est le fil des mots grosses qui a tant de reponses...ça intèresse tout le monde, n'est-ce pas?

Je veux simplement ajouter que on doit faire attention au pays si on veut dire fuck--parce que je vois que plusiers personnes de l'UK (et je pense Canada aussi) ont dit que c'est très souvent entendu.  C'est très different entre le UK et les États-Unis.  Ici, ces mots sont beaucoup plus forts, et beaucoup mois souvent utilisés.

Le même chose avec autres mots--par exemple, "bloody." Je pense que c'est assez fort dans l'UK, mais ici pour le premier chose c'est très rarement utilisé, et ça veut dire presque rien.  En effet, c'est le mot que mon père utilise au lieu de "sugar" ou "darn." Et il est très conservatif avec les mots: il a grondé ma soeur (un teenager de dix-sept ans!) pour dire "holy crap" (un version moins fort que "holy shit") dans un moment de grande emotion.


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## Keith Bradford

EnIrAc said:


> _"purée!" _?? Non! ça n'est pas du tout l'équilavent de "_sugar"_ , qui est un mot doux et gentil..
> 
> Pour "_sugar"_ on peut dire : ma puce, ma cocotte, ma chérie, ma louloutte, etc... il y en a beaucoup


 
Oui mais _sugar_ se dit également comme explétif, pour ne pas dire _shit_.  P.ex. "What did you do that for?  You've landed me in the sugar!"  or simply "Oh, sugar!" 

C'est exactement comme _mayonnaise_ au lieu de _merde_, ou _purée_ au lieu de _putain_.


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