# atte.



## lizabug

Hi,
My friend from Mexico signed a letter to me with the word "Atte". Is there anyone who knows what it means? Thanks!


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## Laia

Atte = Atentamente

I don't know how to translate it... sorry!

Good night!


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## sergio11

"atte." means "atentamente".  It means "respectfully".


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## lizabug

OH, thank you so much!!!


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## Eugin

It could also be translated as: *"Yours sincerely*".

Cheers!!!


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## MarkLondres

Eugin said:
			
		

> It could also be translated as: *"Yours sincerely*".
> 
> Cheers!!!


 
Eugin, I'm sad to tell you (genuinely sad) but nobody uses "Yours sincerely" anymore...

The convention for years was 

Letters beginning "Dear Mr. Eugin;" end with "yours sincerely"
Letters ending with "Dear Sir;" end with "yours faithfully"

I was as surprised as you probably are when i realised that the whole of Britain had stopped using this convention (almost simoutaneously) in about 1995.

We now use, "Mr. Eugin," (without "dear" and with a comma "," instead of a semicolon ";"

Letters now end with "kind regards", "kindest regards", "regards", "best wishes", "with respect", "respectfully" etc.

To this end, "respectfully" is a more appropriate translation for "atte" because it is currently in usage.

I only advise you of this so that you may be aware of the latest convention. There is no sincerity nor faithfulness anymore...

Yours sincerely

Mark


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## Carolina Rocío

Hola,
No sé si ya exista un hilo sobre esto pero quisiera saber cómo es la cosa en USA?  Cómo están las convenciones para iniciar/terminar cartas por allá?  Está pasando algo parecido a lo de UK?
Ojalá puedan responder,
Gracias
Carolina


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## Laia

MarkLondres said:
			
		

> Eugin, I'm sad to tell you (genuinely sad) but nobody uses "Yours sincerely" anymore...
> 
> The convention for years was
> 
> Letters beginning "Dear Mr. Eugin;" end with "yours sincerely"
> Letters ending with "Dear Sir;" end with "yours faithfully"
> 
> I was as surprised as you probably are when i realised that the whole of Britain had stopped using this convention (almost simoutaneously) in about 1995.
> 
> We now use, "Mr. Eugin," (without "dear" and with a comma "," instead of a semicolon ";"
> 
> Letters now end with "kind regards", "kindest regards", "regards", "best wishes", "with respect", "respectfully" etc.
> 
> To this end, "respectfully" is a more appropriate translation for "atte" because it is currently in usage.
> 
> I only advise you of this so that you may be aware of the latest convention. There is no sincerity nor faithfulness anymore...
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Mark


 
 I can't believe that!!! I'm having an English course (with a British native teacher) and we've just studied that (as Mark said):

Letters beginning "Dear Mr. Eugin;" end with "yours sincerely"
Letters ending with "Dear Sir;" end with "yours faithfully"



> Hola,
> No sé si ya exista un hilo sobre esto pero quisiera saber cómo es la cosa en USA? Cómo están las convenciones para iniciar/terminar cartas por allá? Está pasando algo parecido a lo de UK?
> Ojalá puedan responder,
> Gracias
> Carolina


 
En mi libro de clase dice que:
Yours faithfully (UK) = Yours truly (US)
Aunque estaría bien saber si en EEUU sucede lo mismo que en GB...


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## PSIONMAN

Laia said:
			
		

> I can't believe that!!! I'm having an English course (with a British native teacher) and we've just studied that (as Mark said):
> 
> Letters beginning "Dear Mr. Eugin;" end with "yours sincerely"
> Letters ending with "Dear Sir;" end with "yours faithfully"
> 
> 
> 
> En mi libro de clase dice que:
> Yours faithfully (UK) = Yours truly (US)
> Aunque estaría bien saber si en EEUU sucede lo mismo que en GB...



Don't worry Laia. Not all you have learned will have been wasted. People still do follow the convention, but the real change is that hardly anyone writes letters any more. The vast majority of business communication now takes place over the telephone or by email, and of course, these are relatively informal and different conventions apply. 

Does anyone still write personal letters? I don't even send postcards from holiday - the text message has taken over.

Of the 7 letters that I received this morning, 5 still follow the convention. Clearly there is a move towards informality, but most people welcome this. A mutual acceptance that less formality is required does not necessarily mean a lack of respect.


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## Laia

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> Don't worry Laia. Not all you have learned will have been wasted. People still do follow the convention, but the real change is that hardly anyone writes letters any more. The vast majority of business communication now takes place over the telephone or by email, and of course, these are relatively informal and different conventions apply.
> 
> Does anyone still write personal letters? I don't even send postcards from holiday - the text message has taken over.
> 
> Of the 7 letters that I received this morning, 5 still follow the convention. Clearly there is a move towards informality, but most people welcome this. A mutual acceptance that less formality is required does not necessarily mean a lack of respect.


 
ok... jejeje... afer the first shock, now I feel better!!


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## MarkLondres

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> Don't worry Laia. Not all you have learned will have been wasted. People still do follow the convention, but the real change is that hardly anyone writes letters any more. The vast majority of business communication now takes place over the telephone or by email, and of course, these are relatively informal and different conventions apply.
> 
> Does anyone still write personal letters? I don't even send postcards from holiday - the text message has taken over.
> 
> Of the 7 letters that I received this morning, 5 still follow the convention. Clearly there is a move towards informality, but most people welcome this. A mutual acceptance that less formality is required does not necessarily mean a lack of respect.


 
I have to concede, I have one letter this morning following the "Dear-Sincerely" convention, It's from Lloyds bank trying to persuade me to have one of their credit cards. I have two that follow the "MarkLondres, Regards" convention. Then, (and i had not noticed this before, but...) I have four letters, 2 From HM Customs and Excise, 1 From my bank, and one from The Inland Revenue, that do not include my name anywhere in the Body of the letter (only at the top of the address) nor do they close with anything such as "respects"

I Included the year when i first noticed that the "Dear... Sincerely" convention seemed to have gone (1995) as i felt that this predated the widespread use of email and reflected a general change in the convention of formal letters prior to the use of electronic media.

I also learnt these conventions at school, I learnt on the first day of my first proper job that I didn't ought to use the "Dear...Sincerely" convention, this somewhat ironically was for the same Lloyds bank that have sent me a letter this morning (a whole ten years later) and are still using it.

My company never uses "Dear/sincerely" and has no form letters.

Laia, although there is evidence of this convention in the letterboxes of London and Nottingham, I don't think you should regard it as a hard and fast rule, and would suggest that you follow the "Mr. [NAME]...Regards, Kind regards" convention. As an employer, I would suggest that upon receiving work applications with cover letters from speakers of English as a second language following the DEAR SIR convention, i always view this as an indication that their English isn´t maybe as good as it ought to be. If it's any consolation. In terms of education, Spain´s own "Instituto Cervantes" here in London teaches me a whole stack of antiquated nonsense on a weekly basis.

Finally, it may be worth noting that those of you that wish to write to the Editor of the London Times the convention "Sir (no dear), Yours faithfully" still exists.

Sorry to cause alarm with my last posting, I will happily downgrade the use of the above old conventions from "obsolete" to "increasingly rare"

Mark


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## PSIONMAN

Mark's point emphasises that, with the exception of 'official' letters, the vast majority of mail that we now receive is generated by the direct marketing industry. The rules here are slightly different, and the writer has a clear response that he wishes to evoke in the reader. Here, convention and rules are  only used where the serve the purpose of the writer.

I would not agree with Mark that job applications should avoid the convention. As always, think about the recipient, and the impression that you wish to achieve. It's a matter of judgement


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## Laia

Thanks to Mark and Psionman.
I think I'm going to print this thread and add it to my class notes!!


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## MarkLondres

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> I would not agree with Mark that job applications should avoid the convention. As always, think about the recipient, and the impression that you wish to achieve. It's a matter of judgement


 
It's worth adding here that I may have viewed job applications negatively when using the DEAR SINCERELY or DEAR SIR FAITHFULLY convention because until 1 hour ago i considered this to be obsolete.

PSIONMAN is right to highlight this.

Our company solicits work applications via email, I would still consider "Dear/faithfully" a NO NO in a covering email or an attached covering letterer. But thinking about this, I wouldn't consider it so unusual if it was accompanied by a scanned signature.

Is this just me or can we agree that DEAR/FAITHFULLY needs a signature?

Yes i AM fussy

Mark


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## PSIONMAN

MarkLondres said:
			
		

> Yes i AM fussy
> 
> Mark


Mark, you sound like a man from the same mould as I


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## Artrella

MarkLondres said:
			
		

> Eugin, I'm sad to tell you (genuinely sad) but nobody uses "Yours sincerely" anymore...
> 
> The convention for years was
> 
> Letters beginning "Dear Mr. Eugin;" end with "yours sincerely"
> Letters ending with "Dear Sir;" end with "yours faithfully"
> 
> I was as surprised as you probably are when i realised that the whole of Britain had stopped using this convention (almost simoutaneously) in about 1995.
> 
> We now use, "Mr. Eugin," (without "dear" and with a comma "," instead of a semicolon ";"
> 
> Letters now end with "kind regards", "kindest regards", "regards", "best wishes", "with respect", "respectfully" etc.
> 
> To this end, "respectfully" is a more appropriate translation for "atte" because it is currently in usage.
> 
> I only advise you of this so that you may be aware of the latest convention. There is no sincerity nor faithfulness anymore...
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Mark




Hi Mark, I'm also surprised of reading this!  We are still taught at school that convention.  Would you please tell me which formula you'd use for informal and formal letters?
One more question, is it only applied in UK?  Or it is the same in US?
Thank you very much


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## MarkLondres

Artrella said:
			
		

> Hi Mark, I'm also surprised of reading this! We are still taught at school that convention. Would you please tell me which formula you'd use for informal and formal letters?
> One more question, is it only applied in UK? Or it is the same in US?
> Thank you very much


 
Hi artrella,

I presume you read the other postings too, 

I have had a quick look at correspondence here in on my desk and would suggest

*Formal letters or emails to customers, suppliers, and professional service providers (e.g. accountants and lawyers)* 

open with MR/MRS SURNAME and close with regards (this is by far the most common)

or if more familiar (but still formal)

open with FIRST NAME and close with regards

*Formal letters or emails to customers, suppliers, and professional service providers (e.g. accountants and lawyers)* *that we really like...*

open with MR/MRS SURNAME and close with best wishes

or if more familiar (but still formal)

open with FIRST NAME and close with best wishes

*Formal letters or emails or faxes to professional service providers (e.g. lawyers, surveyors and local authorities)* *from whom we require consent or permission prior to commencing work..*

open with MR/MRS SURNAME and close with kindest regards

*Written legal notices to non-paying customers adivising them that we are about to sue their asses*

open with MR/MRS SURNAME and close with the full legal name of our company (no personal name or sign-off)

*Informal emails to friends (within the context of a structured email rather than 3 or 4 words)*

open with FIRST NAME and close with best wishes, regards, cheers, laters, see ya´s laters, see you soon, thanks, thanks a lot, and thank you.

EDIT: I think it may be something specifically English, or specific only to my inbox, but i seem to have a number of personal emails that sign off with something accurate, inaccurate or wholly inappropriate in a foreign language (mainly french)

Examples are, bonjour, je suis un prestidigitateur, je suis anglais, français or franglais, je suis un pomme de terre, bienvenue, gracias, hasta pronto, hasta la vista, ¿como estás?, danke, obrigado and perhaps most obscure si us plau.

EDIT ENDS

*****

Confirming that none of our correspondence bears the traditional convention, 

I don´t know what the convention is in USA, 

"them talks funny there isn´t it?"

Regards

Mark


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## MCGF

Aunque yo no aporte nada nuevo, aprovecho para agradecerle a Mark toda la información que nos está dando. Está siendo de mucha ayuda.

Thanks


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## panjandrum

Further reassurance that the old forms survive.

Here it is still a public sector standard that letters should begin Dear... and end with Yours Sincerely or Yours Faithfully ... as explained earlier.

This would not be the case with e-mails, but we still communicate a lot by normal letter - or by normal letter sent as an e-mail attachment.


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## patrikia

Aquí en EU siguen usando el "dear" al inicio y el "sincerely" para cerrar hasta en las cartas más impersonales. Hoy por ejemplo, National Geographic me mandó una carta dirigida a "Dear Member," (aunque no lo sea). Firma "Sincerely," la presidenta de Children's Books. Y hace una semana más o menos, Andy Rooney, un editorialista en la cadena de tv CBS, hablando de la correspondencia basura, puso como ejemplo una carta dirigida a "Dear Property Owner."


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## lacarpincha

Un poco más de información sobre el "Atte." que dio origen al thread.

Lamento también muchísimo informarles que en la correspondencia es español tampoco se usa demasiado el "Atte.", por dos motivos:
1) Es una abreviatura, y no es de muy buen estilo usar una abreviatura en una carta formal, justamente para la fórmula de despedida. Me parece que los únicos lugares donde se justifica el "Atte." es en memorandums o comunicaciones internas, en donde se pueda permitir esa informalidad en cartas formales. ¡Ah! Por ser una abreviatura, debe ponerse un punto: "Atte.". Es error frecuente no ponerlo.
2) También está cayendo en desuso actualmente. Como el español es tanto menos económico que el inglés, en tal caso se verán más las perífrasis:
"Sin otro particular, saluda a usted 
- muy atentamente
- cordialmente"
y otras, según el país, que el lacónico "Atte."


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## MrPedantic

Well, my experience (in a standard southern British/London business context) clearly differs from that of some other members here. 

Many of the business letters I send and receive are still topped and tailed "Dear sir/Yours faithfully" and "Dear MrX/Yours sincerely". 

In cases where I know someone quite well, "Best wishes" or "Kind regards" have been used; this is no doubt the influence of email, where in any case you tend to build up much more informal and friendly relationships with business contacts.

I notice that media/PR/marketing people are more likely to tend towards the "Best wishes/Kind regards" approach, when writing to strangers. So there may be some variance according to the sector you work in.

Letters from local councils, banks, government bodies, etc. seem to use the "Dear../Yours..." form less than they once did. Sometimes they scarcely seem to address you at all. I suspect that this is because the letters are mass-produced. When local government/bank officials reply to letters personally, they seem to revert to "Dear.../Yours..." 

Panjandrum, I'm interested in your capitalisation of "Yours Sincerely" and "Yours Faithfully", as (in my neck of the woods at least) the second word would be all lower-case. Is this the convention, where you are?

This is all only my experience, of course.

MrP

Edit: 
In terms of etiquette, much depends on whether you're the supplier or the customer. It's better not to assume that you can be as friendly as you want, if you're the supplier. The same applies to job applications: chumminess is more offensive than formality.


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## Geoff Jordan

I've just done a quick search of _sincerely _using the British corpus, and the most common collocate to the left of the search word is _Yours._  I'd say that _Yours Sincerely_ is still a very common way of ending a letter.  And starting a letter with _Dear _is even common. 

Geoff Jordan

P.S. Can anyone help me translate _convocatoria_ (see posting today).


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## 0o_arkana_o0

Atentamente=ATTE
Sincerely Yours


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## alexacohen

In Spain is only used in official typed letters from banks and the like, never in handwritten letters or emails.

Saludos cordiales, gracias por su cooperación/atención & the like seem to be the norm for emails.


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## PSIONMAN

Since my previous posting, and in spite of the fact that some people still feel that language and convention should be immutable, I have now stopped using both the salutation and the sign off on any letters to people with whom I have no personal relationship. I realised that they were adding nothing to letters that were either confirmations of verbal instructions (to banks, utility companies etc) or were responses to computer generated letters. Now, my typical letter is of the form

<address>
<date>

Customer ref xxxxxxxxxxx

I confirm my telephone conversation that I wish to ...


<signature>

I am also dropping salutation and signature from routine business emails. It becomes tedious when you reply to someone for the nth time in two hours with "Hi John"


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## bobby corno

I have never heard of nor observed the Dear Sir/Yours faithfully  Dear Mr. __/Yours sincerely usage. Perhaps this is/was more of a british usage. In my experience in the US, business letters are uniformly signed "Sincerely, <signature>". Of course, when the relationship between author and recipient is more than a passing one, a warmer salutation, such as "Regards", or "Very truly yours," .


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## speedier

bobby corno said:


> I have never heard of nor observed the Dear Sir/Yours faithfully Dear Mr. __/Yours sincerely usage. Perhaps this is/was more of a british usage. In my experience in the US, business letters are uniformly signed "Sincerely, <signature>". Of course, when the relationship between author and recipient is more than a passing one, a warmer salutation, such as "Regards", or "Very truly yours," .


 
Hi bobby, and welcome to the forums,

Maybe you are right and that it is a British convention, because I have found throughout my career that business practice here agrees with MrPedantic's post, including the non capitalisation of the second word in "Yours sincerely" and in "Yours faithfully".


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## prettyfairy

WOW! How I love this forum!


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## funky_butterfly

Hola a todos.

I would like the natives to tell me if in letters now there is any phrase used to close, before "regards" or whatever is used. The phrase I think of in Spanish in this case is "sin otro particular" and "quedo a su entera disposicion" or the like. I've noticed several members have suggested "without / with no further ado", but this is in fact wrong since this phrase is actually used for openings, and not exactly for letters, but for public announcements (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/without+further+ado).

What can you suggest, then?


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## speedier

I'm afraid not. Although in the past phrases such as "I/we remain at your disposal", were common, the only phrases that come to mind that precede yours faithfully/yours sincerely, nowadays are:

"If you require any further information/clarification/assistance please do not hesitate to revert/contact me"; or, "Looking forward to your early response / hearing from you".


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## funky_butterfly

So "I remain at your disposal" is old-fashioned now? I wanted to use that


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## InAStrangeLand

I sincerely enjoyed this explanation. 
Thanks.


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## k-in-sc

I hope all the Spanish natives will realize that the Spanish style of writing sounds intolerably florid and verbose in English. Pare it down, please!


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## funky_butterfly

k-in-sc said:


> I hope all the Spanish natives will realize that the Spanish style of writing sounds intolerably florid and verbose in English. Pare it down, please!



I couldn't agree more!!


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## Talia1987

MarkLondres said:


> Eugin, I'm sad to tell you (genuinely sad) but nobody uses "Yours sincerely" anymore...
> 
> I was as surprised as you probably are when i realised that the whole of Britain had stopped using this convention (almost simoutaneously) in about 1995.



That's not true at all, maybe some people choose not to end formal letters or emails properly, but I certainly do and most professionals or intellectuals do.
As said above, "Dear (name)...Yours sincerely" and "Dear Sir/Madam...Yours faithfully".

This is how I learnt it when I was younger and I still use it.

And I certainly still say "Dear" at the beginning, unless I have already established correspondence with the recipient, in which case I tend to follow the style that they have used.


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