# missä ~ siellä



## Gavril

Moippa,

1) I once read that _siellä_ "there" shouldn't (strictly speaking) be used as a response to questions with _missä_ "where". E.g., if someone asked "Missä se on?", you would perhaps have to answer "Siinä" rather than "Siellä". Is this accurate?

2) This is more of a historical question, but as far as you know, did earlier Finnish (or other Finnic languages) have another word meaning "Where?" (besides _missä_/_millä_) that would have been a more exact equivalent to _siellä_?

Kiitos!


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## Spongiformi

1) Should "there" be translated as _"siellä"_ in the first place? "_Tuolla" _might match it better. "_Tuolla"_ can be used to answer "where?" just fine.

Compare:
Where's the gun? | It's where you left it.
_Missä ase on? | Se on siellä, minne jätit sen._

With:
Where's the gun? | (Over) There. | Here.
_Missä ase on? | Tuolla. | Tässä._

2)  I'm not a linguist, anything but that, but it seems to me great many  question words are quite similar to each other, not only in Finnish but  other languages as well (also in other ways than being sort). In English  many start with "Wh", in Finnish "Mi". I don't see why "_Missä"_  wouldn't be a natural part of the big group. Not that historical  Finnish would have been an overly uniform language. The official form of  our language is an artificial construct in any case, and not overly  old.


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## DrWatson

1) I am not aware of such a rule. _missä_ is a general interrogative pronoun of location. As you know, there are differences between _siinä_/_siellä_, _tässä_/_täällä_ and _tuossa_/_tuolla_, but as for _missä_, there exists only one variant. _Millä se on?_ would be ungrammatical in that sense.

2) Estonian has _kus_, North Sámi has _gos_ and Erzya has _koso_. In Finnish the stem is preserved in e.g. _kuka_, _jonkun_ etc. If I'm not mistaken, the _ku_-stem is earlier and was at some point replaced by _mi_-stem forms in Finnish. In dialects such forms as _kussa_, _kusta_ and _kuhun_ may still exist, though.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that maybe _missä_/_kussa_ once formed a pair parallel to _siinä_/_siellä_ etc. but _kussa_ fell out of use. I'll try and find out when I have the chance.


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## Gavril

Spongiformi said:


> 1) Should "there" be translated as _"siellä"_ in the first place? "_Tuolla" _might match it better. "_Tuolla"_ can be used to answer "where?" just fine.



"there" is how Finnish-English dictionaries translate _siellä_, but of course that doesn't mean that the two words are equivalent in every context.

Is it ever appropriate to use _siellä_ for a place you're pointing to? E.g., if someone asks "Missä karhut asuvat?", and you point to (or gesture towards) a mountain far off in the distance, could you say "siellä" (or "siellä päin") as you're doing so?



> 2)  I'm not a linguist, anything but that, but it seems to me great many  question words are quite similar to each other, not only in Finnish but  other languages as well (also in other ways than being sort). In English  many start with "Wh", in Finnish "Mi". I don't see why "_Missä"_  wouldn't be a natural part of the big group.



What I had in mind were the different suffixes in _missä_ vs. _siellä_ -- i.e., _mi*ssä*_ is a normal locative case form of _mikä_, whereas _siellä_ (as opposed to _siinä_/_sillä_) is not the locative of _se_. But based on your answer, I'm not sure that this is so relevant to my question after all.


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## Määränpää

Gavril said:


> Is it ever appropriate to use _siellä_ for a place you're pointing to? E.g., if someone asks "Missä karhut asuvat?", and you point to (or gesture towards) a mountain far off in the distance, could you say "siellä" (or "siellä päin") as you're doing so?


This requires imagination.

Maybe if I had previously pointed at the mountain for some other reason. In that case "siellä" would mean "in the same place".
Or if I was talking on the phone with you and you were on that mountain looking at me with binoculars. In that case "siellä" would mean "where you are".

(By the way, do animals _asua _in scientific language?)


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## Gavril

Määränpää said:


> This requires imagination.
> 
> Maybe if I had previously pointed at the mountain for some other reason. In that case "siellä" would mean "in the same place".
> Or if I was talking on the phone with you and you were on that mountain looking at me with binoculars. In that case "siellä" would mean "where you are".



OK, so if I understand correctly, _siellä_ is generally used to refer to a place that has been mentioned (or is going to be mentioned), but not to a place that is being pointed out or gestured to. Thanks


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