# Persian: the "mi" verbal prefix as an imperative (نوا را تلخ تر می زن)



## Dastgir

Hi Guys, I'm fairly new to Persian. The only Persian I'm familiar with is that which I've come across in Urdu poetry.

Just recently, I had come across the following lines in Persian, taken from famous Urdu poet Mohammed Iqbal's Urdu poem *Urfi (Bāng-e-Darā-141)*

صدا آمد ز تربت "شکوهٔ اهلِ جهان کم گو"
"نوا را تلخ‌تر می‌زن چو ذوقِ نغمه کم یابی
حدی را تیز‌تر می‌خوان چو محمل را گران بینی"

The below is one of the translations I found.

Call came from grave “Reduce complaint against world’s people
‘Strike the tune harder if the taste for music has become low
Sing the hudi faster if the camel’s litter has became heavy’

My question is: What are the words می‌زن and می‌خوان grammatically speaking?

Are these two verbs actually in the imperative mood? If so, what does prefix "mi" signify? As what I've found online is that "mi" is used in present and past continuous tenses, but its use in a seemingly imperative mood confuses me.

If possible please also grammatically breakdown the rest of the words.

Wiktionary links for the two verbs in question:

زدن - Wiktionary
خواندن - Wiktionary


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## Qureshpor

Dastgir said:


> My question is: What are the words می‌زن and می‌خوان grammatically speaking?



فعل امر استمراری

نوا را تلخ‌ تر* می‌زن*

اپنی آواز کو اور تلخی سے یعنی شدّت سے *نکالے جا*

یا اپنے نغمے کو مزید جذبے سے *گائے جا*

حدی را تیز‌تر *می‌خوان*

حدی کو اور تیز* گائے جا*


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## PersoLatin

Dastgir said:


> صدا آمد ز تربت "شکوهٔ اهلِ جهان کم گو"
> "نوا را تلخ‌تر می‌زن چو ذوقِ نغمه کم یابی
> حدی را تیز‌تر می‌خوان چو محمل را گران بینی


I am not familiar with this work but after reading it several times. I believe by می‌زن & می‌خوان Iqbal’s intention may well have been ‘don’t strike’ & ‘don’t sing’ which is in harmony with شکوه...کم گو, basically “just because you don’t like the tune don’t spoil the music by playing it badly (bitterly)’….


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> I believe by می‌زن & می‌خوان Iqbal’s intention may well have been ‘don’t strike’ & ‘don’t sing’ which is in harmony with شکوه...کم گو, basically “just because you don’t like the tune don’t spoil the music by playing it badly (bitterly)’….


I am afraid the meaning is not negative but continuative. Besides this couplet is by عرفی and not Iqbal.

نوا را تلخ‌تر *می‌زن* چو ذوقِ نغمه کم یابی
حدی را تیز‌تر *می‌خوان* چو محمل را گران بینی

عرفی

*می کوش* به ھر ورق که خوانی
کان دانش را تمام دانی

نظامی

تو نیکی *می کن* و در دجله انداز
کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز


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## PersoLatin

I am well versed with the use of the verbal prefix می in an imperative capacity. So if quacks like a duck.. it must be a duck.

I wish there was someone on this forum who would argue why I was wrong by examining the written words rather than quoting examples from text books.


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## Dastgir

For further context, please also check the below link I found containing a Persian Qasida of the Persian poet Orfi Shirāzi. 

Lines of couplet no. *32* are the same

نوارا ، تندتر میزن چو ذوق نغمه کم یابی
حدی را تیزتر میخوان چومحمل را گران بینی

گنجور » عرفی شیرازی » قصیده‌ها » شمارهٔ ۵۶ - تجدید مطلع


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> I am well versed with the use of the verbal prefix می in an imperative capacity. So if quacks like a duck.. it must be a duck.


I am glad to hear this. 



PersoLatin said:


> I wish there was someone on this forum who would argue why I was wrong by examining the written words rather than quoting examples from text books.


The OP has asked the following question.



Dastgir said:


> My question is: What are the words می‌زن and می‌خوان grammatically speaking?


From what I can see of his post, s/he is not asking for disection of the couplet and explanation of it. In my initial reply to him, I have provided a reply to this question.


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## PersoLatin

Dastgir said:


> گنجور » عرفی شیرازی » قصیده‌ها » شمارهٔ ۵۶ - تجدید مطلع


Thank you for this.



Dastgir said:


> Just recently, I had come across the following lines in Persian, taken from famous Urdu poet Mohammed Iqbal's Urdu poem *Urfi (Bāng-e-Darā-141)*
> 
> صدا آمد ز تربت "شکوهٔ اهلِ جهان کم گو"
> "نوا را تلخ‌تر می‌زن چو ذوقِ نغمه کم یابی
> حدی را تیز‌تر می‌خوان چو محمل را گران بینی"


Has Mohammed Iqbal used that line and given credit to عرفی شیرازی?? Maybe you know



> نوارا ، تندتر میزن چو ذوق نغمه کم یابی
> حدی را تیزتر میخوان چومحمل را گران بینی




Could you also provide a few more lines before and after that piece please?


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## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> From what I can see of his post, s/he is not asking for disection of the couplet and explanation of it. In my initial reply to him, I have provided a reply to this question.


That's not something you always do going by your previous posts, which by the way is a very good thing & something I have benefitted from in the past.

Unless the rules of this forum have changed, we are allowed to makes comments, dissect & examine all relevant parts of a post in order to do a fair job and open up further discussions, also what's the point of forums when can use dictionaries & text books.


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> Has Mohammed Iqbal used that line and given credit to عرفی شیرازی?? Maybe you know


Yes, he has.


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## Dastgir

PersoLatin said:


> Could you also provide a few more lines before and after that piece please?



مرو در عرصه دانش کز آسیب تنگ فهمان

یقین را در پناه پرده داران گمان بینی

درا در پرده بینش که مدهوشان حیرت را

فروغ دیده ستر عورت دوشیزگان بینی

چه نقصان بینی از حیرت که خارش گلستان یابی

چه لذت گیری از دانش که مغزش استخوان بینی

مخاطب گر نباشد مستمع خامش مشو عرفی

که هست او هرچه هست اما تو در معنی زیان بینی

سخنور را خموشی نقش خود میدان خطا باشد

که خاموشی بلبل را زیان مهرگان بینی
*
نوارا ، تندتر میزن چو ذوق نغمه کم یابی

حدی را تیزتر میخوان چومحمل را گران بینی*

مشوش خواهمت گاهی که بینی رهروی خسته

در آتش خواهمت جایی که دستی برعنان بینی

برا از پرده صورت ، قدم در راه معنی زن

که در هر منزلی سری ز اسرار نهان بینی

اگر شوقت امان ندهد ببزم خان خانان رو

که نقش لوح محفوظش ز پیشانی عیان بینی

دکانی چیده خلقش برسر بازار انسانی

که جنت را متاع روی دست آن دکان بینی

اگر آگه شوی از نیت او وقت گفتارش

زبانش عین دل یابی دلش عین زبان بینی

For the full text, just check the link provided prior.


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## PersoLatin

^^ Hi Dastgir, thanks for the above but I have seen all of the above in the link.



Dastgir said:


> Just recently, I had come across the following lines in Persian, taken from famous Urdu poet Mohammed Iqbal's Urdu poem *Urfi (Bāng-e-Darā-141)*


I was after more of the above rather than عرفی شیرازی's


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## Dastgir

PersoLatin said:


> I was after more of the above rather than عرفی شیرازی's



Apologies for the misunderstanding

Text:

Urfi

Translation found online:

(Bang-e-Dra-141) Urfi


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## Mintou

PersoLatin, how's your project for transliteration doing ? 
I would like to be the first tester


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## eli7

می‌زن  = بزن
می‌خوان = بخوان
It is just the archaic, poetic way of saying those words.


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## Qureshpor

eli7 said:


> می‌زن  = بزن
> می‌خوان = بخوان
> It is just the archaic, poetic way of saying those words.


What purpose does the می‌ serve?


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## eli7

Qureshpor said:


> What purpose does the می‌ serve?


One of the most purposes is creating and keeping the rhythm of the poem.


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## Qureshpor

eli7 said:


> One of the most purposes is creating and keeping the rhythm of the poem.
> 
> The rhythm of the verse you provided is: مفاعیلن مفاعیلن مفاعیلن مفاعیلن


What meaning does می‌ add? For example, what is the difference between..

تو نیکی* کن* و در دجله انداز
کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز

and

تو نیکی *می کن* و در دجله انداز
کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز


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## eli7

Qureshpor said:


> What meaning does می‌ add? For example, what is the difference between..
> 
> تو نیکی* کن* و در دجله انداز
> کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز
> 
> and
> 
> تو نیکی *می کن* و در دجله انداز
> کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز


As far as I know, it adds nothing to the meaning. It is added to maintain the rhythm. If you say 
تو نیکی کن و در دجله انداز
Something is missing in the verse, which is a syllable.


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## Qureshpor

eli7 said:


> As far as I know, it adds nothing to the meaning. It is added to maintain the rhythm. If you say
> تو نیکی کن و در دجله انداز
> Something is missing in the verse, which is a syllable.


Something is missing because the poet doesn't want to say 

تو نیکی* کن* *Do* a good deed (Do good deeds) .... but he wants to say

 تو نیکی *می کن *Keep doing a good deed (Keep doing good deeds)

That's the difference.

تو نیکی *می کن* و در دجله انداز
کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز

*Keep doing* good deeds and throw them in the river Tigris (that is to say, forget about them)
Because God will return them to you (repay you) when you are in a desert (when you are in difficulty)


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## eli7

Yes, it means "if you do the good deeds, God will compensate for you and help you where and when you are in need of it."
But generally, as one word, می‌کن = بکن.

اگر خوب درس بخوانی نمره‌ات بیست می‌شود= خوب درس بخوان تا نمره‌ات بیست شود.

اگر خوبی کنی، خوبی می‌بینی= خوبی کن تا خوبی ببینی

We can substitute the if phrase with an imparative, if we want to convey a meaning.


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## Qureshpor

eli7 said:


> But generally, as one word, می‌کن = بکن.


No generally, بکن is not the same as می‌کن

These two mean "Do" and "Keep doing" and these are not the same! Check it out in any reputable grammar group.


eli7 said:


> گر خوب درس بخوانی نمره‌ات بیست می‌شود= خوب درس بخوان تا نمره‌ات بیست شود.
> 
> اگر خوبی کنی، خوبی می‌بینی= خوبی کن تا خوبی ببینی


These have nothing to do about addition of می‌ to فعل امر


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## Dastgir

Qureshpor said:


> Something is missing because the poet doesn't want to say
> 
> تو نیکی* کن* *Do* a good deed (Do good deeds) .... but he wants to say
> 
> تو نیکی *می کن *Keep doing a good deed (Keep doing good deeds)
> 
> That's the difference.
> 
> تو نیکی *می کن* و در دجله انداز
> کہ ایزد در بیابانت دھد باز
> 
> *Keep doing* good deeds and throw them in the river Tigris (that is to say, forget about them)
> Because God will return them to you (repay you) when you are in a desert (when you are in difficulty)



Hi Qureshpor,

Your interpretation makes the most sense to me. But the problem is I'm not able to find any material online or elsewhere on Persian grammar that talks about *this particular* usage of the "Mi-" prefix.

Do you have any material that refers to this usage and explains it grammatically. If you do, please share. If not, how can we confidently assume it's a imperative prefix?


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## eli7

Qureshpor said:


> No generally, بکن is not the same as می‌کن
> 
> These two mean "Do" and "Keep doing" and these are not the same! Check it out in any reputable grammar group.
> 
> These have nothing to do about addition of می‌ to فعل امر


I was trying to say that اگر is implied in the verse you provided.
تو نیکی می‌کن و .... که ایزد = تو نیکی کن و .... تا ایزد = اگر نیکی کنی، ایزد

I am talking about Mi in the example you provided. You definitely know that there are some Mis in Farsi which their meaning and grammar is different. Like مضارع اخباری


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## Qureshpor

Dastgir said:


> Your interpretation makes the most sense to me. But the problem is I'm not able to find any material online or elsewhere on Persian grammar that talks about *this particular* usage of the "Mi-" prefix.


There is tons of material on the net. I am afraid it is not my task to search this for you. You'll have to take my word for it.


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## Qureshpor

Dastgir said:


> Do you have any material that refers to this usage and explains it grammatically. If you do, please share. If not, how can we confidently assume it's a imperative prefix?


Persian: میرو

@fdb  is a scholar. Please just take my word for it.


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## Dastgir

Qureshpor said:


> Persian: میرو
> 
> @fdb  is a scholar. Please just take my word for it.



🙏


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## PersoLatin

eli7 said:


> می‌زن = بزن
> می‌خوان = بخوان
> It is just the archaic, poetic way of saying those words.


version with or without prefix be- says: do xxx once now/in future.

version with ‘mi’ says: do xxx in a continuous way, starting now/in future. Yes it is archaic but the meaning is different the other version.


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