# EA: Cowboy



## londonmasri

Hi,

Someone who does a job they are either not qualified to do, or they do it to a low standard is often referred to as a cowboy 


> Cowboy builder
> A house builder with no proper training or official qualifications who does work of a low standard.


 
The term cowboy applies to any field e.g. a doctor, an artist, a teacher - anyone that does work of a low standard or is doing a job that isn't his real primary job or a job that he isn't qualified to do.

So my sentence that I wish to render into EA is ' he is not a cowboy, he is a qualified builder'.


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## إسكندراني

عكس محترف - ممكن نقول هاوي وأكيد فيـ كلمة أحسن


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## Tracer

While the term "cowboy-*profession*" may exist as a term  denoting someone who does non-professional work or does work of low standard, I personally have never come across it, either spoken or written.  So I doubt very much that such a person is *"often referred to as a cowboy".  *

At least in the USA, I would bet my next month's salary that if you said something like* "He's a cowboy doctor",* 99% of the population would immediately think you're talking about a doctor whose patients, for one reason or another, are mostly cowboys, not that he's an incompetent doctor.  Ditto with other professions.

As I said, the term may exist, but it must be very rare indeed and its use would be extremely restricted to a few professions.  

(In fact, a "cowboy doctor" meaning an incompetent doctor would most likely be called a "*quack*".


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## londonmasri

That's very interesting to know Tracer! In the UK, if we were talking to about a doctor, and someone said 'he's a cowboy' it would be understood that he was just blagging his way through or bodging his job.

So it would appear that it is not a term that is used widely (or at all) in America.


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## suma

To me the term means "reckless". And like Tracer said has limited use at best with that meaning.


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## londonmasri

Thanks Suma; it does not mean reckless in British English. 
*



cowboy Noun. A person who is unscrupulous and unqualified in business. Often with regard to 'cowboy' builders.
		
Click to expand...

*If you just refer to the person concerned as a _cowboy_, or even to a _cowboy operation_ the meaning is very clear in British English. 

A quick google will bring up the meaning of this expression; any responses focussing on an equivalent in EA are much appreciated.


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## إسكندراني

I found it!
طرزان
but by very nature Egyptian is a dialect and you have to use it in a certain way;
داخل فى الطب طرزان
There must be some other word which is usable in more contexts; cowboy operation is an example where I think this one would not work...
I guess I'll keep thinking. I'm weak on this kinda thing ;( but it's where the fun lies.


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## Josh_

We must remember, guys, that English is not a monolith. There are different varieties and words are used in different ways from region to region and country to country. I'm told (although I have not heard for myself) that a speaker of American or British English would be in for a quite a treat upon hearing Singaporian English. 

I knew immediately that Londonmasri was referring to the term as used in British English, firstly, because he is from London (as his user name would indicate), and secondly, because I also have never heard the word cowboy used in that way in American English. 

At any rate, I presume, that since you used a slang term, London, you are looking for an equivalent slang term. I know I have heard a word, or even two or three, that refer to the same concept, but after hours of racking my brain, I cannot think of any. The best I can offer is a literal _gheer mu2ahhil_, which of course is bland, compared to the slang term.


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## Ghabi

Can we use the verb طصلق?


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## ayed

_In Arabic classic is called "akh.rag"_*أخرق*


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## cherine

إسكندراني said:


> I found it!
> طرزان
> but by very nature Egyptian is a dialect and you have to use it in a certain way;
> داخل فى الطب طرزان


As far as I know, saying that someone is قاعد طرزان means that he's just there but not doing anything. 


Josh_ said:


> The best I can offer is a literal _gheer mu2ahhil_, which of course is bland, compared to the slang term.


True, it's more formal than slang. But be careful, it's mo2ahhal. And we can use مش instead of غير.


Ghabi said:


> Can we use the verb طصلق?


طلصق TalSa2 is a verb, it means that he does something _n'importe comment_ (sorry, I couldn't remember the English for these French words). It's like أي كلام.
There's also شغل طلصقة (shoghl TalSa2a)= a job/work that is badly done, that is not done well.
I think it can work in some context.

There's also the (in)famous Egyptian concept of fahlawa فهلوة , which means doing something using instinct, natural skills, basic "intelligence", but no real education or preparation.

A rather new word (or new meaning of the word): بلطجة balTaga.
This word used to mean being a thug, using force and threats to get money from people, destroying properties, menacing others...
Recently, it has acquired the meaning of doing things without being qualified to do them, or imposing oneself on a job/field of work even when one is not prepared to do this. Still a negative meaning, but without the implied reference to the use of force.

So, to get back to the example mentioned in the first post: "he is not a cowboy, he is a qualified builder", we can say:
دا بَنّا شاطر مش فهلوي
da banna shaaTer mesh fahlawy
or مش واخدها فهلوة mesh wakhed-ha fahlawa
or دا فاهم مش أي كلام
or دا بيفهم كويس في شغله مش أي حاجة وخلاص

And I'm sure there are many more possibilities.


P.S. Masri, good to see you again in the forum.


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## Ghabi

Josh_ said:


> We must remember, guys, that English is not a monolith. There are different varieties and words are used in different ways from region to region and country to country.


I'm glad you say that, Josh, otherwise the thread might have ended up in the English Only Forum.



cherine said:


> As far as I know, saying that someone is قاعد طرزان means that he's just there but not doing anything.


So it just means someone is an idler?


> طلصق TalSa2 is a verb, it means that he does something _n'importe comment_ (sorry, I couldn't remember the English for these French words). It's like أي كلام.


So to say someone "bodged his job" (to use London's words above), we can say TalSa2 esh-shoghli bta3o? 



> There's also the (in)famous Egyptian concept of fahlawa فهلوة , which means doing something using instinct, natural skills, basic "intelligence", but no real education or preparation.


 Wow, bravo!



> P.S. Masri, good to see you again in the forum.


And thanks for bringing up such an interesting question.


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## إسكندراني

فهلوي is perfect.
I have never heard طلصق in my life.
قاعد طرزان means a little like بيهبّل for me; barging into something without knowing how.
But it's too vague and informal.


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## Tracer

Just to get it straight in my mind:

3 questions and a comment:
=====================

1.  So in EA we can say *"دكتور فـهلوي"* to mean "cowboy doctor"?

*OR*

2.  we can say*  "دكتور طرزاني  *to mean "cowboy doctor"?

3.  Is this "*طرزان " *the same as English *Tarzan*?  The man who swings from tree to tree and has a girlfriend called "Jane"?


*Comment to londonmasri* "... _he was just_ *blagging* _his way through or_ *bodging* _his job."_ *For your information:* the highlighted terms totally unknown in USA English.


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## Josh_

Great terms Cherine. Thanks for sharing them. I was aware of the word '_balTagi_' as meaning 'thug,' but not aware of the newer connotataions of the word. I was not aware of the word _fahlawi_.

Just some comments:
According to what I understood from the definition offered by Cherine, فهلوي would be good when used to mean someone is simply not qualified, as in he/she does not have the formal qualifications. However, if what is meant is that he/she does sub-standard or poor quality work, I'm not sure it would be the best term, because someone can have the intelligence, the natural aptitude, or the know how to do a job done and do it well, but they may not have the formal qualifications, as in a diploma or certificate from a school.

For someone who does sub-standard or poor quality work it sounds like بلطجي would work.



cherine said:


> True, it's more formal than slang. But be careful, it's mo2ahhal. And we can use مش instead of غير.


Thank you for the correction.



Tracer said:


> 1. So in EA we can say *"دكتور فـهلوي"* to mean "cowboy doctor"?


Hopefully what I said above will help answer that question.


> 3. Is this "*طرزان " *the same as English *Tarzan*? The man who swings from tree to tree and has a girlfriend called "Jane"?


I believe it does originate from that name. I've heard the word used in Egyptian before (pronounced _Tarazaan_), but can't remember the context it was used in. 

As for your second question, I'd say it can't really be used that way, but better wait for a confirmation from someone more knowledgeable than me.


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## londonmasri

cherine said:


> There's also *شغل طلصقة* (shoghl TalSa2a)= a job/work that is badly done, that is not done well.
> I think it can work in some context.


 
*شغل طلصقة* I love this! This would probably be the equivalent of a 'bodge job/bodged job' i.e. a sloppy piece of work (apparently only in British English). The expression *'shoddy workmanship'* is the most prevalent expression I am aware of.



Ghabi said:


> So to say someone "bodged his job" (to use London's words above),


 
Yes exactly - although it would be more natural to say bodged _the_ job.



			
				Ghabi said:
			
		

> TalSa2 esh-shoghli bta3o?


 
I like your suggestion ya G, maybe طلع حطة شغل طلصقه could work also? (_Talla3 7eTet shoghli TalSa2a_)



> There's also the (in)famous Egyptian concept of fahlawa فهلوة , which means doing something using instinct, natural skills, basic "intelligence", but no real education or preparation.


 
This is it!!! _fahlawa_ is someone who is 'winging' it. Just riding on instict but isn't trained in the subject!




> P.S. Masri, good to see you again in the forum.


 
Lovely to be back - I missed it!! I think I'm an addict


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## إسكندراني

Tracer said:


> Just to get it straight in my mind:
> 
> 
> 
> 2.  we can say*  "دكتور طرزاني  *to mean "cowboy doctor"?
> 
> 3.  Is this "*طرزان " *the same as English *Tarzan*?  The man who swings from tree to tree and has a girlfriend called "Jane"?
> 
> 
> *Comment to londonmasri* "... _he was just_ *blagging* _his way through or_ *bodging* _his job."_ *For your information:* the highlighted terms totally unknown in USA English.


طرزان has connotations of a/ naked b/ barging into stuff like superman.
Like I said it's NOT flexible to use at will; so we couldn't adjectivise it!

As for your comment, it's good to get our own back from you guys sometimes. 'Skorts'? Seriously?


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## البريطاني

perhaps you could say.....

هو الدكتور المتعالم

as in he is feighning knowledge


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## Ghabi

londonmasri said:


> This is it!!! _fahlawa_ is someone who is 'winging' it. Just riding on instict but isn't trained in the subject!


 It would be cool if it can be used as a verb too. I'm thinking something like: "well, I've got an interview tomorrow, but I don't really feel like preparing for it. I think I'm just going to wing it".



> Lovely to be back - I missed it!! I think I'm an addict


Join the club.


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## إسكندراني

البريطاني said:


> perhaps you could say.....
> 
> هو الدكتور المتعالم
> 
> as in he is feighning knowledge


Doesn't make sense to me. Even if it did it would be unclear to listeners. Sorry! 
Not every verb has an operational متفاعل
HOWEVER
We are fond in Egypt of using يتفعّل so you could play and make something like this happen:
قول للراجل دا يطلع برّا و جيبلي واحد عدل، جاي يضيّع وقتي و يتدّكتر عليّا
it's kinda odd though!


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## Ustaath

do you have the word: 7ARTA2JI in E.A ?
it's the equivalent to British English 'cowboy' in Lebanese.


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## إسكندراني

Ustaath said:


> do you have the word: 7ARTA2JI in E.A ?
> it's the equivalent to British English 'cowboy' in Lebanese.


Actually 7arta2a sounds vaguely familiar to me. In context Egyptians would be able to tell what it means anyway.


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## Ghabi

cherine said:


> طلصق TalSa2 is a verb, it means that he does something _n'importe comment_ (sorry, I couldn't remember the English for these French words). It's like أي كلام.


Hi again. Is the expression سلق بيض used in the same way?


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