# pronunciation - 2012



## Arai

Hello,

I have been watching a video where two people make predictions about 2012. One of them says twenty-twelve and the other, two thousand and twelve. Are both options right?

Thanks,

Arai.

Moderator's note: two threads have been merged to create this one. Very quick & rough summary:
*two thousand and twelve *(BrE)
*two thousand twelve* (AmE)
*twenty twelve *(BrE & AmE, may be a bit less formal)


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## Wandering JJ

At present, both are OK. A lot has already been said about these options. Twenty-twelve ties in nicely with nineteen-twelve (1912) in therefore feels good. It's difficult to find a comparison with 'two thousand and twelve' because the last time it was relevant was in the year 1012 and we don't have any recordings from that era... However, a famous year for us Brits is 1066, which we say as 'ten sixty six' so I guess that the first suggestion you give will probably be the one to be generally adopted.

At the moment, I still say 'two thousand and eleven' - Americans don't like the 'and' so I don't know what they say - probably 'twenty-eleven' - the shorter the better!


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## Chris K

I'm saying "two thousand eleven" for the current year, so I'll probably go with "two thousand twelve."


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## Arai

Thanks a lot


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## OMT

In the US, it's primarily "twenty-twelve," with 2010 being when it generally switched from "two thousand ____" to "twenty-_____." I would imagine that practically everyone will say "twenty-thirteen" instead of "two thousand thirteen."


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## Chris K

OMT said:


> In the US, it's primarily "twenty-twelve," with 2010 being when it generally switched from "two thousand ____" to "twenty-_____." I would imagine that practically everyone will say "twenty-thirteen" instead of "two thousand thirteen."



Maybe. I still think in formal contexts we'll be saying, for instance, "welcome to the two-thousand thirteen national convention of the Limburger Cheese Association" rather than "the twenty-thirteen..." But we'll see when we get there!


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## OMT

Chris K said:


> Maybe. I still think in formal contexts we'll be saying, for instance, "welcome to the two-thousand thirteen national convention of the Limburger Cheese Association" rather than "the twenty-thirteen..." But we'll see when we get there!



Ha, I see it being the other way. Main reason for the "two thousand" construction was that it got around the awkward question of what to call the zero in the tens place (similar to how you saw "1908" rendered as "nineteen aught eight" or "nineteen eight" at the time, and then "nineteen oh eight" by the end of the century).


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## wallander

Hi everybody;
I'd like someone to help me with this; I'm not sure how to pronounce years as of 2000. Aside from twenty twelve I've heard these two pronunciations very often; two thousand and twelve and two thousand twelve. Are they both correct?
Thanks in advance


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## Robañero

Twenty-twelve and Two thousand twelve are both correct for expressing the year.

Two thousand *and *twelve is technically improper in English, but very frequently heard.  Numbers in English should not contain the word "and".

Although most people say "A hundred and one", it should be "One hundred one."


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## Garz

Hubo un pequeño debate lingüístico al respecto. Echa un vistazo a este enlace: http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/12/31/cultura/1262214367.html


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## Dlyons

"Two thousand *and *twelve" is what I'd normally say. "Two thousand twelve" has a very American ring to my ears.


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## SydLexia

"two thousand twelve" is AmE.
"two thousand and twelve" is BrE.
("two /fahzand'n/ twelve" is NorthLondonE pronunciation .)

syd


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## Garz

> fahzand'n



No conocía esa palabra, qué curiosa.


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## sound shift

Garz said:


> No conocía esa palabra, qué curiosa.


Son dos palabras, "fahzand" y "'n". La segunda es la forma reducida de "and", mientras la primera no aparece en el diccionario porque es una representación de la manera de la cual los "castizos" de Londres pronuncian la palabra "thousand".


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## wallander

Thank you all


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## Garz

Gracias por la explicación, sound shift.


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## Horned Owl

The years 2000 to 2009 are pronounced two thousand and one, two thousand and two, two thousand and nine etc.
The years 2010 and beyond are pronounced twenty ten, twenty twelve, twenty nineteen etc.


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## Robañero

SydLexia said:


> "two thousand twelve" is AmE.
> "two thousand and twelve" is BrE.
> ("two /fahzand'n/ twelve" is NorthLondonE pronunciation .)
> 
> syd



That's interesting.....is that just for the year, or for numbers too?   We were taught in school that when counting, to add an "and" in any number is a low-class corruption of proper English.

Also for 1999, do Brits say Nineteen and Ninety-Nine or Nineteen Hundred and Ninety-Nine, or is it just for the Thousands??

Surely some people say Twenty-Twelve, no?


Also, I hear "and" in America just as much as not, so I can't agree that to say "and" is BrE, and to not is AmE.  To me it always sounds superfluous and wrong just because of the way I was taught...


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## mnewcomb71

SydLexia said:


> "two thousand twelve" is AmE.
> "two thousand and twelve" is BrE.
> ("two /fahzand'n/ twelve" is NorthLondonE pronunciation .)
> 
> syd


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## Robañero

Horned Owl said:


> The years 2000 to 2009 are pronounced two thousand and one, two thousand and two, two thousand and nine etc.
> The years 2010 and beyond are pronounced twenty ten, twenty twelve, twenty nineteen etc.




That's logical, but not a hard and fast rule.  In America at least, some people will always say "Two Thousand Forty Five", "Two Thousand Seventy", or whatever, without impropriety, just as many people said "Twenty-Oh-Five" for 2005, in the early days of the millenium.  In general you are right, ease of pronunciation dictates most people will say it as you describe, but not necessarily...


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## sound shift

Robañero said:


> That's interesting.....is that just for the year, or for numbers too?   We were taught in school that when counting, to add an "and" in any number is a low-class corruption of proper English. I was never taught that this "and" was "low-class". "Two thousand five" follows the German pattern. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that over fifty million US citizens are of German descent.
> 
> Also for 1999, do Brits say Nineteen and Ninety-Nine or Nineteen Hundred and Ninety-Nine, or is it just for the Thousands?? We say nineteen ninety-nine.
> 
> Surely some people say Twenty-Twelve, no? Yes, some do.
> 
> 
> Also, I hear "and" in America just as much as not, so I can't agree that to say "and" is BrE, and to not is AmE.  To me it always sounds superfluous and wrong just because of the way I was taught... "Always"? Even when it's in the mouth of a speaker from the UK, where different conventions apply?


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## Wisconsinite

Robañero said:


> Also, I hear "and" in America just as much as not, so I can't agree that to say "and" is BrE, and to not is AmE.  To me it always sounds superfluous and wrong just because of the way I was taught...



I have to agree with Robañero.  It is common (or maybe even standard?) for people in the United States to say "and" in numbers like "two thousand and twelve" or "one hundred and five." 

In elementary school in Wisconsin, I was taught that it is improper to add an and to any number. However, it is common (perhaps typical?) to say and--it doesn't sound wrong to me at all. In fact, I think I insert the "and" in numbers when I pronounce them. But when I write a check, I know not to include the word "and."

Verbally, I could say it either way: "There are six hundred and fourteen types of cheese produced in Wisconsin." "The year is two thousand twelve." 

In my checkbook, I'd write "six hundred fourteen dollars and no cents."


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## Robañero

@sound shift:

OK, not ALWAYS...

Let me rephrase....

It sounds superfluous and wrong, or foreign and cute....lol


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## Robañero

Wisconsinite said:


> I have to agree with Robañero.  It is common (or maybe even standard?) for people in the United States to say "and" in numbers like "two thousand and twelve" or "one hundred and five."
> 
> In elementary school in Wisconsin, I was taught that it is improper to add an and to any number. However, it is common (perhaps typical?) to say and--it doesn't sound wrong to me at all. In fact, I think I insert the "and" in numbers when I pronounce them. But when I write a check, I know not to include the word "and."
> 
> Verbally, I could say it either way: "There are six hundred and fourteen types of cheese produced in Wisconsin." "The year is two thousand twelve."
> 
> In my checkbook, I'd write "six hundred fourteen dollars and no cents."



Yes! I catch myself adding the "and" out of habit too, and I always remark it to myself.  That's why I can't agree that to not say "and" is AmE.  To say "and" has become so common here that you may be right, it may be considered standard now...


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## James2000

Down here (or up here if you have one of those maps with South at the top), we always say the 'and'.  Leaving it out is not an option unless you're a visitor from the US.

But getting back to the original question:

Two thousand and twelve
Twenty twelve

are both heard in these parts.


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## Ana_Fi

Hi,

Would you ever say 'twenty hundred ten', or is it just for round figures?

Thanks!


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## INFOJACK

Two thousand and twelve 
Two thousand twelve 
They are both right.


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## Robañero

Ana_Fi said:


> Hi,
> 
> Would you ever say 'twenty hundred ten', or is it just for round figures?
> 
> Thanks!




No, just Twenty-ten.  Just like Nineteen-Ten


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