# White racism



## Amerikaner508

I hear alot of African American people say that white people are racist. Sometimes I think that African Americans are just as racist sometimes. Has anyone else seen this? Or am I being naive?


----------



## JGreco

I don't think its outspoken or in your face racism I think its more underlying. Sometimes many white americans are nieve to this or they sometimes don't realize when something they say is really offensive. Since i speak to you as a person who in the United States would not be considered White or Black (which I find funny because on the United States sensus and many college applications hispanic or Latino (the term I favor because I am not of Soanish decent) are not options. I do not check white either because I know in The perceptions of many white people in the U.S I am not white so I either check nothing or other) so I am not as qualified to answer your statement. Though I also find it funny that in The U.S nearly everything that is referred to as "racist" are usually put in terms of Black or White. I personally think the reason  "a few" Black people are still hostile  towards white people is because of the history of oppression and superiority that white people have subjected towards Black people and non-stereotypical  white people is only really three decades back. That type of emotional pain stays in the memories of many people and gets passed down more than a generation. This new stable "kind of' equal America is still in its infancy. Heck, I can even think of things that I've heard many naive white people say to me that were offensive such as looking at every asian and referring to them as "chinese" or every latin and reffering them to as "mexican". Many stereotypes are increasing even now since the two new groups that seem to be experiencing increasing racism are the Arab-Americans (after 9/11) and the Latinos ( where all illegal immigrants not to mention Mexican) and unfortunately the main group of people I see perpetuating these stereotypes are White Americans in the United States ( example- Congressman Tom Tancredo rep. from Colorado). If you know he a caucasioan man can be outspoken like that what do you think we think others might think?


----------



## .   1

OK.
See below.


----------



## Setwale_Charm

.,, , please! do not kill every thread that is not to your liking by jumping to hasty conclusions and declaring them.


----------



## LV4-26

Amerikaner508 said:


> I hear alot of African American people say that white people are racist.


 They're right. We all have that almost instinctive fear, distrust of what is different. Sometimes, it manifests itself as racism. Some successfully fight this feeling, some don't. The latter, we usually call racists.  





> Sometimes I think that African Americans are just as racist sometimes.


Ditto. Of course some are. Why should they be different? African Americans do not come from Mars or Zeta II Reticuli.


----------



## winklepicker

LV4-26 said:


> They're right. We all have that almost instinctive fear, distrust of what is different. Sometimes, it manifests itself as racism. Some successfully fight this feeling, some don't. The latter, we usually call racists. Ditto. Of course some are. Why should they be different? African Americans do not come from Mars or Zeta II Reticuli.


 
Bullies will pick on anything they can: if their victim is of another race or colour that just makes it easy for them. But if they are not they'll pick on something else - class, accent, job, physical imperfections.

So, yes, we should try to eliminate the low-level racism that goes on all the time: but those who feel discriminated against should remember that it would probably be the same if they had red hair, or big noses, or were left-handed.


----------



## Outsider

All around the western hemisphere, the elites are still predominantly white, over a century after the abolition of slavery. Why do you think this is?... Coincidence?...


----------



## TRG

winklepicker said:


> Bullies will pick on anything they can: if their victim is of another race or colour that just makes it easy for them. But if they are not they'll pick on something else - class, accent, job, physical imperfections,point of view.
> 
> So, yes, we should try to eliminate the low-level racism that goes on all the time: but those who feel discriminated against should remember that it would probably be the same if they had red hair, or big noses, or were left-handed.


 
I thought your list need a little updating. Hope that's ok.

I did also want to say that this is one of those things where talking about it doesn't necessarily help the problem.  The word is overused and loaded with lots of baggage.  I wish we would use it less.


----------



## maxiogee

LV4-26 said:


> They're right. We all have that almost instinctive fear, distrust of what is different. Sometimes, it manifests itself as racism. Some successfully fight this feeling, some don't. The latter, we usually call racists.
> 
> Ditto. Of course some are. Why should they be different? African Americans do not come from Mars or Zeta II Reticuli.


 
I couldn't have put it better myself.

*!"£$%^&*()_ Earthlings!*


----------



## cuchuflete

Whatever one's definition of racism may be, and the absence of a definition often leads threads to be a jumble of
individually worthwhile ideas that do not address one another, it exists in most, if not all, groups of people. It is entirely logical to expect to find it among at least a few people in any group that has been subjected to racism.


----------



## palomnik

Not all white people are racist.  I'll go out on a limb here and say that all white Americans are racist, at least to a certain extent.

An interesting poll was done by the NY Times a while back.  They found that the majority of Americans - both white and black - agreed that blacks are still treated unfavorably.  The major difference was that the whites didn't perceive that they were the ones causing the problem; it was always "the system" or "lingering results of older legislation", or some such thing.


----------



## Reina140

palomnik said:


> Not all white people are racist. I'll go out on a limb here and say that all white Americans are racist, at least to a certain extent.
> 
> An interesting poll was done by the NY Times a while back. They found that the majority of Americans - both white and black - agreed that blacks are still treated unfavorably. The major difference was that the whites didn't perceive that they were the ones causing the problem; it was always "the system" or "lingering results of older legislation", or some such thing.


 
Please speak for yourself.  I can't say that I've never prejudged a person, but not based on race.  Where I live is very diverse, and usually people are judged more based on class.


----------



## TRG

palomnik said:


> Not all white people are racist. I'll go out on a limb here and say that all white Americans are racist, at least to a certain extent.
> 
> An interesting poll was done by the NY Times a while back. They found that the majority of Americans - both white and black - agreed that blacks are still treated unfavorably. The major difference was that the whites didn't perceive that they were the ones causing the problem; it was always "the system" or "lingering results of older legislation", or some such thing.


 
By your statement you are affirming the universality of the trait of racism. Perhaps you intended to mock yourself; I don't know. It would seem to be consistent with the doctrine of original sin. Do you have any thoughts on that. It also surprises me little that someone in this thread would quickly get around to America bashing which I take great joy in pointing out whenever it occurs. If this thread were to be closed, it would not be a bad thing IMO.


----------



## elpoderoso

Of course black people are just as capable of being racist as white people or any other people. I would consider Mugabe to be a racist and we must'nt forget Rwanda.


----------



## konungursvia

I think African-Americans have a more ample appreciation of the pains and injustice of racism and practice it less than other groups as a result.


----------



## Poetic Device

Reina140 said:


> I'll go out on a limb here and say that all white Americans are racist, at least to a certain extent.  I'll go out on an even further limb and say all people in general are to some degree racist or prejudice.
> Please speak for yourself. I can't say that I've never prejudged a person, but not based on race. Where I live is very diverse, and usually people are judged more based on class.


 
When I worked at the psych hospital, there was so much racism it was not even funny, an in all honesty I think the African/Black population was more so than the white--at least in face-to-face confrontation.

It was drilled into the white population that they must be more tolerant and basically bend rules and such for those who are not of pale pigmant, and therefore when one was called honkey or cracker they just had to grin and say "thank you".


----------



## Thomsen

Amerikaner508 said:


> I hear alot of African American people say that white people are racist. Sometimes I think that African Americans are just as racist sometimes. Has anyone else seen this? Or am I being naive?


 
Probably, but you can't really blame them can you? If someone from the third world called me lazy, well, yeah, I probably am compared to them. Or if someone from rural Kentucky wanted to call me a stuck up urbanite, I would have to accept the inherent truth in that argument. 

Now, if this is a specific situation we are talking about, I think you have a right to defend yourself from being called a racist by someone if you feel you are being mislabeled or misunderstood. But if we are just talking about the general scheme of things, my advice is not to let it bother you.



konungursvia said:


> I think African-Americans have a more ample appreciation of the pains and injustice of racism and practice it less than other groups as a result.


 
Do you think that is true of humanity?  I always feel like the opposite seems to be more true.  The more you have been oppressed, the more you seek to oppress others...


----------



## Poetic Device

I agree.  I don't think that too many people are really capable of a constant "turn the other cheek" (myself included).


----------



## cuchuflete

palomnik said:


> Not all white people forum members in all forums are racist prone to offer exaggerated opinions without proof.  I'll go out on a limb here and say that all white Americans some members of this forum are racist prone to make provocative, unsubstantiated remarks, at least to a certain extent.


----------



## Qcumber

Races exist, and racism is based on them. It all depends on whether you consider a person of another race as a fellow human being or not. 

Now why should people of different races be compelled to live together if they don't want to? There are Asians who don't want to live in the same neighbourhood as Blacks, and Blacks who don't want to live in the same neighbourhood with Asians. What wrong with that? 

There is more peace when every community stays in its own neighbourhood, or in its own country. The current migration movements have caused unhappiness on every side and have resulted in increased racist discrimation in every direction. Any honest person who has observed the evolution of Europe during the past 50 years cannot deny that.


----------



## djchak

Hey, If you want to see racism, just watch the clips of Big Brother 5 (UK version) on Youtube. Nothing theoretical there.... you get to see real ignorance in action.


----------



## maxiogee

Qcumber said:


> Races exist,


Before you go any further, you might like to comment on what constitutes a race - and more importantly, what demarks a race's members.


----------



## cuchuflete

djchak said:


> Hey, If you want to see racism, just watch the clips of Big Brother 5 (UK version) on Youtube. Nothing theoretical there.... you get to see real ignorance in action.



Does this comment have anything to do with the thread topic?  If so, how is it connected?


----------



## .   1

maxiogee said:


> Before you go any further, you might like to comment on what constitutes a race - and more importantly, what demarks a race's members.


Yeah. That question always pops into my mind when discussions like this are begun by members with less than five posts who then bugger off and contribute nothing to the flame war they start.
I posted my opinion earlier on but apparently I possess the ability to kill threads so I removed my post to allow this little gem to rise or fall on its own merits and where has it gone?



Amerikaner508 said:


> I hear alot of African American people say that white people are racist.


I hear a small minority or African American people say that a small minority of white people are racist.



Amerikaner508 said:


> Sometimes I think that African Americans are just as racist sometimes.


Could you please point out an ethnic group who are more or less racist than another ethnic group?



Amerikaner508 said:


> Has anyone else seen this? Or am I being naive?


I have noticed that about 97% of people are wonderfully caring individuals and that random acts of kindness and senseless beauty are in themselves reward in excess of constantly contemplating the puss in the infected toenail on the bunion that compromises the remaining 3% who are euphemistically described as --------.

.,,


----------



## cuchuflete

Thanks for a good summary, Robert.


----------



## .   1

djchak said:


> Hey, If you want to see racism, just watch the clips of Big Brother 5 (UK version) on Youtube. Nothing theoretical there.... you get to see real ignorance in action.


Nope.  Not interested in seeing racism nor Big Brother unless you nailed my bum to a chair and stapled my eyelids to my forehead.
I don't have to travel far to see real ignorance.

.,,


----------



## .   1

cuchuflete said:


> Thanks for a good summary, Robert.


I wonder if Amerikaner (is that an Afrikaner in America or an American in South Africa) will grace us with a return visit.  There have been many and varied responses to the question posed. If the question was posed for a valid reason surely there should be some input from the fascinated thread starter by now but I am sure that there will be a credible reason for the absence.

Robert


----------



## Poetic Device

What is....

Racism - The belief that one 'racial group' is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination.

Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgment on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies, or formation of a judgement without direct or actual experience. Holding a politically unpopular view is not in itself prejudice, and not all politically popular views are free of prejudice. ...

Definitions of *race* on the Web:


[*]any competition; "the race for the presidency"
[*]people who are believed to belong to the same genetic stock; "some biologists doubt that there are important genetic differences between races of human beings"
[*]a contest of speed; "the race is to the swift"
[*]rush: step on it; "He rushed down the hall to receive his guests"; "The cars raced down the street"
[*]slipstream: the flow of air that is driven backwards by an aircraft propeller
[*]compete in a race; "he is running the Marathon this year"; "let's race and see who gets there first"
[*]to work as fast as possible towards a goal, sometimes in competition with others; "We are racing to find a cure for AIDS"
[*]subspecies: (biology) a taxonomic group that is a division of a species; usually arises as a consequence of geographical isolation within a species
[*]raceway: a canal for a current of water
[*]cause to move fast or to rush or race; "The psychologist raced the rats through a long maze"
Ethnicity - sense of being different than other groups because of cultural tradition, ancestry, national origin, history, or religion.


----------



## Qcumber

As everybody knows biologists are not interested in races because they are all based on secondary features - eye colour, skin colour, type of hair, etc. - that are not very important compared with the key issues they are dealing with. In brief, they do not bother about physical appearance.

In real life, physical appearance is extremely important not only because it is part of your identity, but also because others will like you, hate you or just be indifferent depending on what they see and hear and smell. How did you pick your spouse?  

So, if you are interested in social problems, you may forget everything you have learnt in the biology class, for this science will not help you in understanding what is going on in some countries.

In brief, quarrelling about the definition of race is a waste of time.

A regards theories that posit that some races are superior to others, I find them boring and hard to follow as every argument put forward can immediately be nullified by a counter-argument. Again a waste of time.


----------



## Poetic Device

Qcumber said:


> As everybody knows biologists are not interested in races because they are all based on secondary features - eye colour, skin colour, type of hair, etc. - that are not very important compared with the key issues they are dealing with. In brief, they do not bother about physical appearance.Okay, stop right there.  Not to be rude to anyone, but Africans DO look different from whites other than just skin colour and such (this is just an example).  Their entire body is proprtioned differently.  How about their skulls?  There is no way that you can say that is not different.
> 
> In real life, physical appearance is extremely important not only because it is part of your identity, but also because others will like you, hate you or just be indifferent depending on what they see and hear and smell. How did you pick your spouse?  I don't like it, but true.
> 
> So, if you are interested in social problems, you may forget everything you have learnt in the biology class, for this science will not help you in understanding what is going on in some countries.
> 
> In brief, quarrelling about the definition of race is a waste of time.
> 
> A regards theories that posit that some races are superior to others, I find them boring and hard to follow as every argument put forward can immediately be nullified by a counter-argument. Again a waste of time.


----------



## maxiogee

Very good PD - we all have dictioneries, but 'genetic stock' doesn't tell me what a race actually is and how one comes to belong to one.

Are my two brothers and my sister and I a race? We're as distinct a 'genetic stock' as you can possibly get. What stops me being of the Nordic race - assuming I have some Viking ancestry from their pillaging days a thousand years or more ago.


----------



## cuchuflete

If anyone would care to address the simplistic comments in post #1, please do so.  If you would like to talk about tangential topics, either use Search to find an existing thread on the topic, or open a new one.

Thanks,
Cuchuflete, wearing a mod hat.


----------



## Qcumber

I agree with you, Poetic Device, but features such as size, etc. are not very important for biologists. For instance a blood group to mention something everybody can check is a hundred times more important.


----------



## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> Definitions of *race* on the Web:people who are believed to belong to the same genetic stock; "some biologists doubt that there are important genetic differences between races of human beings"


People who belong to the same genetic stock.
I could theoretically breed successfully with a rampant polluter who is a murderous thief from Siberia with lesbian tendencies.
How different do we need to be to be identified as belonging to a different race?

Robert


----------



## faranji

. said:


> People who belong to the same genetic stock.
> I could theoretically breed successfully with a rampant polluter who is a murderous thief from Siberia with lesbian tendencies.
> How different do we need to be to be identified as belonging to a different race?
> 
> Robert


 
The fact that you could breed successfully with such an individual simply proves that both of you belong to the same *species*. That's the criterium used by biologist to discern whether two individuals belong to the same species or not. It has nothing to do with races. Chihuahuas and poodles can interbreed too.


----------



## Benjy

Amerikaner508 said:


> I hear alot of African American people say that white people are racist...





faranji said:


> ...Chihuahuas and poodles can interbreed too.




Need I say anymore?


----------

