# to fold and smooth



## Karavostassis

Hi!

I've run into this phrase: "All this probably from my prissy little-girl phase, at eight or nine, ehwn I loved to fold and smooth and secret things". What do the verbs 'to fold' and 'to smooth' mean here?

Thanks.


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## cycloneviv

Have you looked up "to fold" and "to smooth" in the dictionary? Neither of them is a terribly complicated word. Can you tell us what it is about their definitions that is confusing you? (You can type "fold" and "smooth" into the Dictionary look-up box at the top of the page for instant definitions.)


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## katie_here

I'm wondering if the confusion is "and secret things". At first glance it sounds like "to fold and smooth secret things" but really it means "to fold things, to smooth things and to hide things away so no one knows about them". 


Hope that makes sense and I wasn't being presumptuous!.


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## Karavostassis

Hi, I have already looked into the dictionary before asking the question. It may be the construction that I couldn't understand (both are transitive verbs but any of them has the object). I think Katie has given me a possible solution. Thanks, Katie.


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## katie_here

You're welcome, Karavostassis, 

I've been thinking as well. 

You know when you have some treasure and you want to keep it perfect, like a memento from a past love, like a scarf or a t'shirt, something, anything. 

to fold and smooth, may be metaphorical way of keeping these things "perfect and special", you fold and you smooth to keep them neat and then hide them away,  a perfect little secret, treasured and well looked after.


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## Thomas Tompion

Karavostassis said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've run into this phrase: "All this probably from my prissy little-girl phase, at eight or nine, ehwn I loved to fold and smooth and secret things". What do the verbs 'to fold' and 'to smooth' mean here?
> 
> Thanks.


I have sympathy for you, Karavostassis, because the verb to secret is not easily found in simple dictionaries, being normally spelt secrete these days.

Of course the moment you see that your passage means to fold and to smooth and to secrete (to hide away) things, your problem with the transitive nature of fold and smooth disappears - they've got their direct objects in things.

To secrete is in the WR dictionary, and we are talking about meaning 2.


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## katie_here

Secrete is when something leaks a fluid isn't it?  From the word Secretion?  

I think using the word secrete is confusing things.


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## AngelEyes

Thomas, I never would have thought of *secrete*, but it really works for me.

It means to stash something away into some secret place.

It's an old-fashioned word, I think, and has a touch of romance to it.

Yes, for me, it really solves the problem here, plus it also blends in well with the sentimental action of the whole thing.

*AngelEyes*


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## ewie

When I got to _secret things_ I immediately thought, "Uh-oh, typo ~ that should be _secrete_".  I don't recall ever seeing _secret_ as a verb.


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## Thomas Tompion

AngelEyes said:


> Thomas, I never would have thought of *secrete*, but it really works for me.
> 
> It means to stash something away into some secret place.
> 
> It's an old-fashioned word, I think, and has a touch of romance to it.
> 
> Yes, for me, it really solves the problem here, plus it also blends in well with the sentimental action of the whole thing.
> 
> *AngelEyes*


To secrete is, I think, now the standard form of the old verb to secret which hasn't been used much since the 17th century I think - the only online dictionary in which I could find it mentioned cited Francis Bacon.  Interestingly the accent has moved from the first to the second syllable (it's on the second in secrete).  I don't think it's necessarily old fashioned.  One can't easily do a Google search to check, because of its common meaning of glandular activity.


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## katie_here

I'm the opposite.  The only place I can see "secrete" as in "to hide something away is in WR, I can't find it anywhere else. 

Secret as a verb is quite common to me. 

_I take my favourite things and secret them away_. 

Or when people have been abducted and _their abductor secrets them away in the dead of night_.


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## suzi br

If this was in a poem or other self-consciously "arty" text  I would think the writer might have kept the word *secret *in for its short vowel *and *to give us a little smile at the idea of a child fussing her secret things and even making up her own verb for what she does .. 

Oh, I'm such lit. critter at times!


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## suzi br

PS to respond to Kate, I didn't think secret as a verb was standard English, could it be dialect use?  

(All the definitions on "one look" show as nouns or adjectives).


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## AngelEyes

Yes, I knew the accent was on the second syllable, Thomas. I guess when I said old-fashioned, I meant you don't hear it used much these days. I love it in reference to this meaning, though.

Most people would just say "I stashed it." or "I hid it away."

It's got such a "womanly" feeling to it in my mind. 

Thank you for your additional comments.

*AngelEyes*


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## Thomas Tompion

katie_here said:


> I'm the opposite. The only place I can see "secrete" as in "to hide something away is in WR, I can't find it anywhere else.
> 
> Secret as a verb is quite common to me.
> 
> _I take my favourite things and secret them away_.
> 
> Or when people have been abducted and _their abductor secrets them away in the dead of night_.


Here it is in M-W:

Main Entry: 2 se·crete Pronunciation: \si-ˈkrēt, ˈsē-krət\ Function: _transitive verb_ Inflected Form(s): se·cret·ed; se·cret·ing Etymology: alteration of obsolete _secret,_ from _1secret_ Date: 1741 1 *:* to deposit or conceal in a hiding place 2 *:* to appropriate

And here in Dictionary.com

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Secrete _–verb (used with object), _*-cret·ed, -cret·ing. *to place out of sight; hide; conceal: _squirrels secreting nuts in a hollow tree trunk. _[Origin: 1735–45; alter. of obs. _secret,_ v.]

I couldn't find to secret in Jane Austen but she uses to secrete, though only once, that I could find, in Northanger Abbey, Chapter 23:

But suites of apartments did not spring up with her wishes. Large as was the building, she had already visited the greatest part; though, on being told that, with the addition of the kitchen, the six or seven rooms she had now seen surrounded three sides of the court, she could scarcely believe it, or overcome the suspicion of there being many chambers *secreted*. 

Please note that the dictionaries mark the source as to secret but mark that as *obsolete*.


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## katie_here

suzi br said:


> PS to respond to Kate, I didn't think secret as a verb was standard English, could it be dialect use?
> 
> (All the definitions on "one look" show as nouns or adjectives).


 
yes it is a verb. 

To secret away his prized possessions. 


but alas, I can't back myself up, because I can't find it on any online dictionary. 

so even though I know I'm right, please disregard my contributions because I can't back them up.


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## Karavostassis

Thanks to all of you. Your comments are very interesting and they really help me.


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## Packard

Secrete is a verb and Secret is an adjective or noun as I recall.  I don't think there is a verb "secret".

In any event, I believe before mass produced envelopes were available people used to make "packets" from square sheets of fabric or paper and place the contents in the center of the fabric.  They would then fold the sheet in half, and then in half the other direction to enclose the content.  I believe that to "fold and smooth and secrete" the item is referring to this process.

(I believe that gem stone dealers still use folded packets for the stones.)


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## panjandrum

*secret*, verb (obsolete):
_trans._ To keep secret, conceal, hide. 
*secrete*, verb (2):
_trans._ To place in concealment, to hide out of sight, to keep secret.
_OED_

I would expect secrete in this context, never having come across secret as a verb.
I assumed on first reading that there was something missing from the sentence, because I know that little girls aged 8 love secret things (secret, adjective).
I have to say that there is no sign of my source of information about 8-year-old girls having any interest in folding or smoothing (based on the evidence of her room).


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## trevorb

Thomas Tompion said:


> I couldn't find to secret in Jane Austen but she uses to secrete, though only once, that I could find, in Northanger Abbey, Chapter 23:
> 
> But suites of apartments did not spring up with her wishes. Large as was the building, she had already visited the greatest part; though, on being told that, with the addition of the kitchen, the six or seven rooms she had now seen surrounded three sides of the court, she could scarcely believe it, or overcome the suspicion of there being many chambers *secreted*.


 
Out of interest, how do you know whether this is _secret_ or _secrete_?

I'm in the same boat as Katie_here. I have always thought that the verb meaning to hide away was spelled _secret_, although pronounced with the stress on the second syllable. But the evidence seems to be against us.

Although it is still in use, it does have a slightly literary, poetic, or just plain old-fanshioned sound to it. Perhaps my only encounters with it in writing have been in pre-eighteenth century texts - or in the past tense!

Trevor.


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## Thomas Tompion

trevorb said:


> Out of interest, how do you know whether this is _secret_ or _secrete_? [...]


I wondered who'd be the first to notice that - Don't tell him, Pike.

Good point, Trevor. I think it would be very odd to read it with the accent on the first syllable, don't you?


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## katie_here

Thank you Trevor. Now I know I'm not going mad!!


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## panjandrum

... well, you're not alone anyway 
Could this be a particularity of the north of England?


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## ewie

_Salford is another country: they do things differently there_


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## Karavostassis

I think the writer is from Ireland...


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## Cathy Rose

As Angel Eyes said, it seems a bit old-fashioned, but when I Googled "to secret away" I found that it is not unheard of in modern language.  It is sometimes used in the legal profession to describe one spouse who tries to hide assets from the other spouse.  "He secreted away money from the used car dealership."


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## Thomas Tompion

Cathy Rose said:


> As Angel Eyes said, it seems a bit old-fashioned, but when I Googled "to secret away" I found that it is not unheard of in modern language. It is sometimes used in the legal profession to describe one spouse who tries to hide assets from the other spouse. "He secreted away money from the used car dealership."


 
Same problem, Cathy Rose.  How do you know it's not the simple past of to secrete?


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## angelicface

Hey guys this is amazing

I've heard for so many times about the phrase "I secret it away" but I put no importance on it. I dont speak good english its just now that I have discovered this educational way of learning on line. 
thank you so much for all your idea and Im looking forward to learn more.
take care


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## Thomas Tompion

angelicface said:


> Hey guys this is amazing
> 
> I've heard for so many times about the phrase "I secret it away" but I put no importance on it. I dont speak good english its just now that I have discovered this educational way of learning on line.
> thank you so much for all your idea and Im looking forward to learn more.
> take care


How many Google hits for "I secret it away"?  Answer: 1, and that a private blog. 

Not very convincing.


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## katie_here

ewie said:


> _Salford is another country: they do things differently there_


 
Salford is the centre of the universe!.


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## katie_here

Thomas Tompion said:


> How many Google hits for "I secret it away"? Answer: 1, and that a private blog.
> 
> Not very convincing.


 
Good job there was no language before Google, or we'd all be lost!.


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## trevorb

Thomas Tompion said:


> How many Google hits for "I secret it away"? Answer: 1, and that a private blog.
> 
> Not very convincing.


 
But for 'to secret away' - 764. At least one in a published book.

For 'to secrete away' - 254. At least one in a published book(!)

Of course, they're not all good 'hits'. So, still not very convincing.

Interestingly, angelicface, my degree, which has languished unused for 30 years, is in law. Maybe that's where I picked up whatever notion I have of how to spell secret/secrete.

Trevor.


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## trevorb

trevorb said:


> But for 'to secret away' - 764. At least one in a published book.
> 
> For 'to secrete away' - 254. At least one in a published book(!)
> 
> Of course, they're not all good 'hits'. So, still not very convincing.


 
Actually, having sifted through a few of these hits on Google, I take that back. It is _very_ convincing. It is clear that, for whatever reason, and whatever the OED may say, _secret_ _(away)_ as a verb is not obsolete. QED.

I think Katie_here should feel fully vindicated!

Trevor.


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## Thomas Tompion

This is interesting, Trevor.  I wonder why it isn't reflected in the dictionaries.  Is it your view that it is a relatively recent phenomenon?


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## trevorb

It's not my impression that it's new, but I can't pretend to offer any kind of expert opinion. It had simply never occurred to me to spell it any other way. Like Katie_here, I thought you could only _secrete_ _secretions. _Clearly, I was wrong.

Panjandrum, I certainly don't think it's a north of England thing. It doesn't even seem to be just a BE thing. By the way, the 8 year old's lack of folding and smoothing doesn't seem to improve over the succeeding 10 or so years. And the tendency to secret part consumed food and drink, and items of unwashed clothing in unexpected corners increases! (Does that mean something else if I use _secrete_?!)

Trevor.


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## se16teddy

I understand the phrase as an elliptical form of _from my prissy little-girl phase, at eight or nine, when I loved to fold things, and loved to smooth things, and loved secret things. _Not, perhaps, a form of ellipsis that one would use if one were trying to convey facts in the most efficient manner; but fine when the objective, as here, is to entertain and delight. 

My concern is that these pleasures are not all restricted to prissy little girls. 
- I love to fold things - and I'm not a prissy little girl, at least, not on the outside. 
- It is perhaps characteristic of girls that they habitually caress fabrics to make them neat, or to enjoy the feel. 
- But everybody loves secrets.


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## Thomas Tompion

trevorb said:


> It's not my impression that it's new, but I can't pretend to offer any kind of expert opinion. It had simply never occurred to me to spell it any other way. Like Katie_here, I thought you could only _secrete_ _secretions. _Clearly, I was wrong.
> 
> Panjandrum, I certainly don't think it's a north of England thing. It doesn't even seem to be just a BE thing. By the way, the 8 year old's lack of folding and smoothing doesn't seem to improve over the succeeding 10 or so years. And the tendency to secret part consumed food and drink, and items of unwashed clothing in unexpected corners increases! (Does that mean something else if I use _secrete_?!)
> 
> Trevor.


Are you sure it's not just a matter of people not knowing how to spell secrete?  Is it pronounced with the accent on the first syllable, for instance?


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## trevorb

Well, it's certainly ignorance on my part. For me, at least, the pronunciation is the same - the stress falls on the second syllable.

Does the OED give a different pronunciation for _secret_ as a verb to _secret_ as a noun? The online dictionaries I've looked at don't. So, point taken. Unless it's pronounced the same as the noun, it's actually a misspelled version of _secrete_.

Looks like I may have to eat my words!

Trevor.


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## Thomas Tompion

trevorb said:


> Well, it's certainly ignorance on my part. For me, at least, the pronunciation is the same - the stress falls on the second syllable.
> 
> Does the OED give a different pronunciation for _secret_ as a verb to _secret_ as a noun? The online dictionaries I've looked at don't. So, point taken. Unless it's pronounced the same as the noun, it's actually a misspelled version of _secrete_.
> 
> Looks like I may have to eat my words!
> 
> Trevor.


 
These two links give the different pronunciations. If you find the phonetic representation unclear, click the little loudspeaker in red by the word and a voice will pronounce the word. The accent is clearly on the first syllable in secret, and on the second in secrete.

I think if the word is going to be to secret away, then the accent is going to have to be on the first syllable, or we are dealing with a misspelling of secrete, probably.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secret

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=secrete


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## trevorb

But no pronunciation for (the obsolete) "to secret"? I notice it gives an alternative pronunciation for _secrete_:
Pronunciation: \si-ˈkrēt, ˈsē-krət\Now that's something I really didn't expect!

Trevor.


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## panjandrum

trevorb said:


> [...]
> Does the OED give a different pronunciation for _secret_ as a verb to _secret_ as a noun?
> [...]


The OED gives no pronunciation for secret as a verb.
I assumed that is because they have no idea how the word was pronounced.
Their most recent example is from 1734.


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## Thomas Tompion

trevorb said:


> But no pronunciation for (the obsolete) "to secret"? I notice it gives an alternative pronunciation for _secrete_:
> Pronunciation: \si-ˈkrēt, ˈsē-krət\Now that's something I really didn't expect!
> 
> Trevor.


Yes, I agree. I hadn't spotted that. Perhaps it's when it's so pronounced that people think it is spelled like the noun, hence the dictionaries' silence about a current verb secret.  For what it's worth I couldn't find either secret or secrete as verbs in Shakespeare - I was looking to see if its position in the line could give a clue as to pronunciation.


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## katie_here

panjandrum said:


> Their most recent example is from 1734.


 
That must be when I last heard it. 

It's funny really, you get the "notion" in the back of your mind, an expression using the word, " Because he didn't want anyone to see his letter, he had to secret it away in a drawer under lock and key". 

I think it must have gone way out of use, because I can find no reference to it now. I did find one, on my first look about google, but then I couldn't find it again, just the past tense, secreted. 

I did ask some people last night and it seems the older the person was, the more likely they knew the word but the younger ones thought I'd gone mad!.


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