# Can, may, want



## Whodunit

How would you translate the following structures into Arabic?

I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want to read the book.
I/He/She/We/They want you to read the book.
You/He/She/We/You both/They want me to read the book.
I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want the book to be read.
I/You/He/She/We/You both/They will want to read the book.

I think I don't need the follwong ones with all the pronouns, just the first person:

I can read the book.
I could read the book.

I'm able to read the book.
I will be able to read the book.
I was able to read the book.

I may read the book.
I might read the book.

I need to read the book.
I needed to read the book.

I love reading the book.
I loved reading the book.

I'd like to read the book.
I'd like you to read the book.

I shall read the book.
I should read the book.

I help you read the book.

That's all. Thank you for your help. I think I can imagine how such constructions work in Arabic after this pattern.


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## Whodunit

Let me try to answer my question myself where I can:



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> How would you translate the following structures into Arabic?
> 
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want to read the book.
> I/He/She/We/They want you to read the book.
> You/He/She/We/You both/They want me to read the book.
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want the book to be read.
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They will want to read the book.
> 
> I think I don't need the follwong ones with all the pronouns, just the first person:
> 
> I can read the book. يمكنني أن أقر الكتاب
> I could read the book.
> 
> I'm able to read the book. انا قادر على قرأ الكتاب
> I will be able to read the book. انا سوف على قرأ الكتاب
> I was able to read the book. كنت على قرأ الكتاب
> 
> I may read the book. لي أن أقر الكتاب
> I might read the book.
> 
> I need to read the book. يجب على أقر الكتاب
> I needed to read the book.
> 
> I love reading the book. أحب قرأ الكتاب
> I loved reading the book.
> 
> I'd like to read the book.
> I'd like you to read the book.
> 
> I shall read the book. ينبعي لي أن أقر الكتاب
> I should read the book.
> 
> I help you read the book. أسعدك قرأ الكتاب
> 
> That's all. Thank you for your help. I think I can imagine how such constructions work in Arabic after this pattern.



But I suppose all of those are wrong.


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## Jana337

Let's see (but I am afraid I forgot everything!): 

*بودّي  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب.* I want/wish to read the book.

*نودّه  أن  يقرأ  هذا  الكتالب*. He wants/wishes to read the book.

   The structure is bi-wuddi + possessive + ‘an + subjunctive.

    Alternatively:

*انا  راغبة  في  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب*

   This is a participle of رغب + بي + ‘an + subjunctive.



   Another way, obviously, is to use the verb ‘arada, also with subjunctive if I am not mistaken.

   Jana


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## Jana337

*يمكنني  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب* I can read the book.

*في  إمكاني  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب *I can read the book

*من  الممكن  لي  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب* I can read the book



   The first one is the verb *أمكن* in the 3.rd person with the possessive pronoun and ‘an.

   The second one is a noun derived from ‘amkana (something like “it is in my ability”).

   The third one is too hard for me to analyze but I am almost sure that it is correct. 


 Jana


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## Jana337

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Let me try to answer my question myself where I can:
> 
> 
> 
> But I suppose all of those are wrong.



The combination of Arabic and italics in our blue boxes is lethal. 

Jana


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## elroy

Ok here we go: 



			
				Whodunit said:
			
		

> How would you translate the following structures into Arabic?
> 
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want to read this book.
> انا اريد ان اقرا هذا الكتاب
> انت تريد( ين ) ان تقرا( ي ) هذا الكتاب
> انتم تريدون ان تقراوا هذا الكتاب
> انتن تريدن ان تقران هذا الكتاب
> هو يريد ان بقرا هذا الكتاب
> هي تريد ان تقرا هذا الكتاب
> نحن نريد ان نقرا هذا الكتاب
> انتما تريدان ان تقرآ هذا الكتاب
> هم يريدون ان يقراوا هذا الكتاب
> هن يريدن ان يقران هذا الكتاب
> I/He/She/We/They want you to read this book.
> انا اريدك ان تقرا هذا الكتاب
> ...هو يريدك
> ...هي تريدك
> ...نحن نريدك
> ...هم يريدونك
> ...هن يريدنك
> You/He/She/We/You both/They want me to read this book.
> same as above, but with ني attached to the verb and ان اقرا following the verb
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want the book to be read.
> same as above, but with nothing attached to the verb and ان يُقرا الكتاب following the verb
> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They will want to read this book.
> Add سوف before the verb in the sentences in red.
> 
> I think I don't need the follwong ones with all the pronouns, just the first person:
> 
> I can read the book.
> استطيع ان اقرا الكتاب
> or
> بامكاني ان اقرا الكتاب
> I could read the book.
> استطعت ان اقرا الكتاب
> or
> كان بامكاني ان اقرا الكتاب
> 
> I'm able to read the book.
> انا قادر على قراءة الكتاب
> I will be able to read the book.
> سوف اكون قادر على قراءة الكتاب
> I was able to read the book.
> استطعت ان اقرا الكتاب
> I may read the book.
> ربما اقرا الكتاب
> I might read the book.
> same as above
> 
> I need to read the book.
> احتاج ان اقرا الكتاب
> I needed to read the book.
> احتجت ان اقرا الكتاب
> 
> I love reading the book.
> احب قراءة الكتاب
> I loved reading the book.
> احببت قراءة الكتاب
> I'd like to read the book.
> اود ان اقرا الكتاب
> I'd like you to read the book.
> اودك ان تقرا الكتاب
> 
> I shall read the book.
> سوف اقرا الكتاب
> I should read the book.
> بجب ان اقرا الكتاب
> I help you read the book.
> اساعدك على قراءة الكتاب
> That's all. Thank you for your help. I think I can imagine how such constructions work in Arabic after this pattern.


 
Of course there are other possibilities for all of them. For example, for the red (and green) sentences you can substitute قراءة for the "an + verb."


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Let me try to answer my question myself where I can:
> 
> 
> 
> But I suppose all of those are wrong.


 
Unfortunately, they were in fact all wrong. 

I can read the book. يمكنني أن أقرأ الكتاب
I could read the book.

I'm able to read the book. انا قادر على قرأءة الكتاب 
I will be able to read the book. انا سوف أقرأ الكتاب
I was able to read the book. كنت قادر على قرأءة الكتاب *(or my suggestion above, depending on context) 
*
I may read the book. لي أن أقر الكتاب  *(see above)*
I might read the book.

I need to read the book. يجب أن أقرأ الكتاب *(but this means "I should" and not "I need to" - see above for "I need to")*
I needed to read the book.

I love reading the book. أحب قرأءة الكتاب
I loved reading the book.

I'd like to read the book.
I'd like you to read the book.

I shall read the book. ينبعي علي أن أقرأ الكتاب *( This also means something else.  It means "I should" and not "I shall" - see above for "I shall."  By the way, علي is optional.)  
*I should read the book.

I help you read the book. أسعادك على قرأءة الكتاب


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Let's see (but I am afraid I forgot everything!):
> 
> *بودّي أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب.*  I want/wish to read the book.
> 
> *بودّه أن يقرأ هذا الكتالب*. He wants/wishes to read the book.
> typo, I assume?  The way you had it written meant "We want him to read the book"!
> 
> The structure is bi-widdi + possessive + ‘an + subjunctive.
> Correct.  Another possibility is simply to conjugate the verb: "awaddu" "tawaddu" etc. (by the way, that's what "nawaddu" would be a form of.  Your way would be "biwiddina."
> 
> Alternatively:
> 
> *انا راغبة في أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب  *
> 
> This is a participle of رغب + بي + ‘an + subjunctive. I don't like western terms for Arabic grammar so I'm not gonna comment on them.
> 
> 
> 
> Another way, obviously, is to use the verb ‘arada, also with subjunctive if I am not mistaken. Yes, if you're considering "an" plus the present tense subjunctive.  That's actually the most neutral form.
> 
> Jana


 
Except for the typo, perfect!


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## Jana337

*أقدر  على  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب * I am able to read the book

*أنا قادرة  على  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب * I am able to read the book

*في مقدوري  على  أن  أقرأ  هذا  الكتاب*  I am able to read the book


 The verb is qadara and the structures are similar to those in the "can" post.


 Jana


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Except for the typo, perfect!



Thanks, the Arabic keyboard drives me nuts! 
But I was taught (by a Syrian) that the structure was _bi-wUddi

_Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> *يمكنني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب* I can read this book.
> 
> *بإمكاني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب *I can read this book
> 
> *من الممكن لي أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب* I can read this book
> 
> All correct, except for the preposition in the second one.
> 
> 
> 
> The first one is the verb *أمكن* in the 3.rd person with the possessive pronoun and ‘an.
> 
> The second one is a noun derived from ‘amkana (something like “it is in my ability”).
> Yes, more or less.
> 
> The third one is too hard for me to analyze but I am almost sure that it is correct.
> It is feasible for me...
> 
> Jana


 
Super!


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## Jana337

I am afraid I do not know too many ways of expressing must.
I must read this book:

* يجب أن أقرا هذا الكتاب 

*yajibu is an impersonal form (like it is necessary to ...)

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> *أقدر على أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب Delete the underlined word. I can't strike it through because the formatting goes berserk if I try to. *I am able to read the book
> 
> *أنا قادرة على أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب This is grammatically correct, I think, but the gerund ( قراءة) **would sound better.* I am able to read the book
> 
> *في مقدوري على أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب* *Um...I guess في مقدوري is technically correct, but it sounds very strange to my ears. *I am able to read the book
> 
> 
> The verb is qadara and the structures are similar to those in the "can" post.
> 
> 
> Jana


 
Great contributions! 

You're keeping me on my toes!


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Great contributions!


 


> You're keeping me on my toes!


 So ein Quatsch! 

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I am afraid I do not know too many ways of expressing must.
> I must read this book:
> 
> *يجب أن أقرا هذا الكتاب *
> 
> yajibu is an impersonal form (like it is necessary to ...)
> 
> Jana


 
Absolutely.

ينبغي is another impersonal possibility.  You could use علي (and its derivatives) after it but that's optional.

علي (and its derivatives) could actually also be used alone.  It would mean literally. "It is on me to read."


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Thanks, the Arabic keyboard drives me nuts!
> But I was taught (by a Syrian) that the structure was _bi-wUddi_
> 
> Jana


 
Oops - in all the fun I managed to miss this post! 

Um...biwiddi is the way I'd instinctively pronounce it (bear in mind we're talking about standard Arabic here)....BUT I'll ask my dad about it when he comes home.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> Great contributions!
> 
> You're keeping me on my toes!


 
OMG, you both! Thank you very very much. Seems that I'm the fool here who don't know a word of Arabic.


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> I/You/He/She/We/You both/They want to read this book.
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> *هو يريد ان بقرا هذا الكتاب*


Typo, right? * يقرا* is correct.


 Jana


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## Jana337

> *انا قادر على قراءة الكتاب*


 I cannot figure out the underlined part - neither its meaning nor the way it is written. Could you please transliterate it?


 Jana


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## Jana337

My suggestion:

   في إمكاني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب

   Your correction: All correct, except for the preposition in the second one.

*بإمكاني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب*

       And you substituted bi for my fi.

I was relying on my memory when writing this but then I checked it in the textbook (co-written by a Syrian) where I found this example:

*في  إمكاني  أن  أذهب  معك*

   If this particular sentence is correct (?), what’s the difference between them?


 Jana


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## Jana337

> علي (and its derivatives) could actually also be used alone. It would mean literally. "It is on me to read."


How exactly? My guess:


*علي  أن  اقرا الكتاب*


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## Jana337

> *أقدر على أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب* Delete the underlined word.





   Again, my textbook:

*يقدرون  على ان  يذهبوا  ماشيا عشرة  ميلومترات*

  Jana


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## elroy

elroy said:
			
		

> Oops - in all the fun I managed to miss this post!
> 
> Um...biwiddi is the way I'd instinctively pronounce it (bear in mind we're talking about standard Arabic here)....BUT I'll ask my dad about it when he comes home.


 
After debate between me and my mother (who agreed with me) and my father (who rooted for "biwuddi"), we resorted to a dictionary and came up with a shocking revelation:

*ALL* three vowels are allowed: *biwaddi*, *biwuddi*, and *biwiddi*!

However, the dictionary entry also mentioned that the colloquial بدي comes from this construction.  The vowels weren't indicated, but I've only ever heard "biddi" and "baddi," which confirms my suspicion that "biwuddi" is unusual.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Typo, right? *يقرا* is correct.
> 
> 
> Jana


 
Yes.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> I cannot figure out the underlined part - neither its meaning nor the way it is written. Could you please transliterate it?
> 
> 
> Jana


 
"qiraa'a"

It is the gerund - "reading" as a noun.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> My suggestion:
> 
> في إمكاني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب
> 
> Your correction: All correct, except for the preposition in the second one.
> 
> *بإمكاني أن أقرأ هذا الكتاب*
> 
> And you substituted bi for my fi.
> 
> I was relying on my memory when writing this but then I checked it in the textbook (co-written by a Syrian) where I found this example:
> 
> *في إمكاني أن أذهب معك*
> 
> If this particular sentence is correct (?), what’s the difference between them?
> 
> 
> Jana


 
I'm sorry, but I don't think that sentence is correct.  في  literally means "in," and it is all too often the case that it gets confused with "bi," which cannot be translated directly into most other languages.  Now, since you got the construction from a grammar book, I could concede that it is "stomach-able" - albeit not without sounding awkward and connoting something like "inside my capacity."

In any case, "bi" sounds much better.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> How exactly? My guess:
> 
> 
> *علي أن اقرا الكتاب*


 
Perfect.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Again, my textbook:
> 
> *يقدرون على ان يذهبوا ماشيا عشرة ميلومترات*
> 
> Jana


 
Now you're making me doubt.  I'm gonna ask my dad about this too (he's asleep right now) but my gut feeling is that the على is superfluous.  

By the way, I'm getting a little skeptical about the accuracy of this grammar book - "ماشيا " should be spelled "مشيا."


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## ayed

بمقدوري قراءة هذا الكتاب
باستطاعتي قراءة هذا الكتاب
ودي أقرأ هذا الكتاب
بودي=اتمنى ، احب

------------------------------------------
* 
مشياُ=It is an adverb of manner"Hal -- "حال."How did they go?On their feet(مشياً)
يقدرون على أن يذهبوا مشياً على الاقدام عشرة أميال/كيلو مترات
يقدرون على الذهاب مشياً 
بمقدروهم ان يذهبوا مشياً 
بمقدروهم الذهاب مشياً


*


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Now you're making me doubt. I'm gonna ask my dad about this too (he's asleep right now) but my gut feeling is that the على is superfluous.
> 
> By the way, I'm getting a little skeptical about the accuracy of this grammar book - "ماشيا " should be spelled "مشيا."



The book (not a grammar reference book) actually lists your suggested spelling in brackets. I was too lazy to copy both of them.

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The book (not a grammar reference book) actually lists your suggested spelling in brackets. I was too lazy to copy both of them.
> 
> Jana


 
ماشيا is incorrect though because it is masculine singular.  It is equivalent to the English participle.

You can say

*هو يذهب ماشيا* (_He goes walking)_

or

*هو يذهب مشيا* _(He goes on foot)_

but not

هم يذهبون ماشيا  

or

هي تذهب ماشيا  

You would have to use ماشين and ماشية, respectively.


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## Whodunit

I still have several questions. Let me try to ask them and I'll keep asking after you replied to thses ones:



			
				elroy said:
			
		

> I/He/She/We/They want you to read this book.
> انا اريدك ان تقرا هذا الكتاب
> ...هو يريدك
> ...هي تريدك
> ...نحن نريدك
> ...هم يريدونك
> ...هن يريدنك
> You/He/She/We/You both/They want me to read this book.
> same as above, but with ني attached to the verb and ان اقرا following the verb




I know this could be a bit of grind for you, but I'd like to ask you to write the same for all "possessive tags". I'll try it.

...هو يريدني -me-
...هو يريدك -you-
.. هو يريده -him-
...هو يريدها -her-
...هو يريدنا -us-
...هو يريدكم -you-
...هو يريدكن -you-
...هو يريدهم -them-
...هو يريدهن -them-



> I could read the book.
> استطعت ان اقرا الكتاب
> or
> كان بامكاني ان اقرا الكتاب


 
Okay, these are the past tense forms, but I needed the subjunctive forms (könnte in German).



> I will be able to read the book.
> سوف اكون قادر على قراءة الكتاب


 
Isn't the "sawfa" redundant? I mean doesn't "akuun" already signifies the future tense, os why do I need the extra "futurizer" D) sawfa?


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> I still have several questions. Let me try to ask them and I'll keep asking after you replied to thses ones:
> 
> [/color]
> 
> I know this could be a bit of grind for you, but I'd like to ask you to write the same for all "possessive tags". I'll try it.
> 
> ...هو يريدني -me-
> ...هو يريدك -you-
> .. هو يريده -him-
> ...هو يريدها -her-
> ...هو يريدنا -us-
> ...هو يريدكم -you-
> ...هو يريدكن -you-
> ...هو يريدهم -them-
> ...هو يريدهن -them-




Prima!  

The only ones that are missing are the dual forms, but I'm sure you can form those as well. 





> Okay, these are the past tense forms, but I needed the subjunctive forms (könnte in German).


 
You would still use the past tense.  Remember, Arabic only has three "true" tenses/moods: present, past, and imperative - so other forms (from other languages) will always be one of those three, sometimes with and sometimes without some sort of modification.

Of course, context is a huge determining factor when deciding how to translate "könnte," but I can say that "in der Regel" the Arabic past tense works.  You can feel free to provide specific sentences *with context*, and I can try to provide Arabic equivalents for them. 




> Isn't the "sawfa" redundant? I mean doesn't "akuun" already signifies the future tense, os why do I need the extra "futurizer" D) sawfa?


 
No, it's not redundant.  "Akuunu qaadiran" by itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  The present does not indicate the future in most cases.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> Prima!
> 
> The only ones that are missing are the dual forms, but I'm sure you can form those as well.


 
Here you go:  

... هو يريدكما -both of you-
... هو يريدهما -both of them-



> You would still use the past tense. Remember, Arabic only has three "true" tenses/moods: present, past, and imperative - so other forms (from other languages) will always be one of those three, sometimes with and sometimes without some sort of modification.


 
THAT I know. But I thought there would be something like a subjunctive expression, like for the future with "sawfa" or "sa-".



> Of course, context is a huge determining factor when deciding how to translate "könnte," but I can say that "in der Regel" the Arabic past tense works. You can feel free to provide specific sentences *with context*, and I can try to provide Arabic equivalents for them.


 
How would you translate this sentence:

Wenn ich nur das Buch lesen könnte, dann wüsste ich mehr über die Grammatik.
If I only could read the book, I'd know more about grammar.



> No, it's not redundant. "Akuunu qaadiran" by itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The present does not indicate the future in most cases.


 
Okay, that's all.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Here you go:
> 
> ... هو يريدكما -both of you-
> ... هو يريدهما -both of them-


 
Klasse! 




> THAT I know. But I thought there would be something like a subjunctive expression, like for the future with "sawfa" or "sa-".


 
Not really.   



> How would you translate this sentence:
> 
> Wenn ich nur das Buch lesen könnte, dann wüsste ich mehr über die Grammatik.
> If I could *only* (or _if only I could_) read the book, I'd know more about grammar.


 
*.لو كنت قادرا على قراءة الكتاب، لعرفت المزيد عن القواعد*​


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## ayed

elroy said:
			
		

> *.لو كنت قادرا على قراءة الكتاب، لعرفت المزيد عن القواعد*​




...لو امكنني قراءة الكتاب 
...لو استطعت قراءة الكتاب​Elory, translate this sentence:
If I was able to read the book, I would know more about grammar.


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## elroy

ayed said:
			
		

> ...لو امكنني قراءة الكتاب
> 
> ...لو استطعت قراءة الكتاب ​


 
Yes, also possible.



> Elory, translate this sentence:
> If I *were* able to read the book, I would know more about grammar.


 
I think my earlier translation would work for that as well:

*.لو كنت قادرا على قراءة الكتاب، لعرفت المزيد عن القواعد*​ 
* كنت قادرا = استطعت* 

​


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## ayed

Sure .I just meant "the accuracy of translation" no less no more.


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## elroy

ayed said:
			
		

> Sure .I just meant "the accuracy of translation" no less no more.


 
I see.  The difference is very subtle, though.


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Now you're making me doubt. I'm gonna ask my dad about this too (he's asleep right now) but my gut feeling is that the على is superfluous.



What did your dad say? 

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> What did your dad say?
> 
> Jana


 
I finally asked him - sorry about the delay.

He said it was technically possible but both he and my mother agreed that it was a weak construction. The gerund is generally stronger than the "an + present tense" construction.


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