# Albergo Diffuso



## emma g.

Dear all,

I'm wondering if someone could help me translate the phrase "albergo diffuso". It was used regarding a hotel in the country - could it mean something like "country hotel"? 


*O*n second thought, maybe "hotel compound", ie a hotel that is spread out in more than one building?

* T*hank you!
Emma


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## Paulfromitaly

It makes no sense to me, unless you can provide the whole sentence.


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## emma g.

I think that it's some type of tourism term. 

_L'Hotel è aperto come “albergo diffuso”._

Still not very clear!


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## Paulfromitaly

emma g. said:


> I think that it's some type of tourism term.
> 
> _L'Hotel è aperto come “albergo diffuso”._
> 
> Still not very clear!



It looks like there's a part of the sentence missing: as it stands it doesn't make sense.


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## emma g.

Really? It couldn't be something like,
"The Hotel was opened as an "albergo diffuso"?

Well, I guess I'll just leave it, if the sentence doesn't make sense - thank you for trying!

Yes, thank you K.! That helps a lot.


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## esther.ve

ciao,
*R*iapro il post...anche io sono nella stessa situazione.
*Q*uesta la frase: "   potenziando i servizi di accoglienza e di ristoro diventerà un unico *albergo diffuso*, secondo una formula che va affermandosi in Italia da qualche anno."
*P*roposal : by reinforcing reception and f*ood courts services. The *small town would then become a *widespread hotel

T*hanks


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## london calling

Ester, il link di KG non funziona: ma che cos'è un albergo diffuso? Qualcuno ce lo vuole spiegare, please?


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## Lorena1970

esther.ve said:


> questa la frase: "   potenziando i servizi di accoglienza e di ristoro diventerà un unico *albergo diffuso*, secondo una formula che va affermandosi in Italia da qualche anno."
> proposal : by reinforcing reception and f*ood courts services. The *small town would then become a *widespread hotel
> 
> *thanks



Scusa, mi dici dove appare nella frase originale in italiano "the small   town"...? Credo di capire cosa intendi, ma ancora una volta fornisci   frasi originali che non corrispondono a quello che tu traduci. Non   possiamo essere nella tua testa...

edit: @LC:  credo che il link di Kg fosse collegato a questo, ma non si apre nemmeno da questo sito...QUI è spiegato bene, sono paesini ristrutturati nei quali le camere sono sparpagliate qui e là mentre alcuni servizi sono concentrati in un edificio oppure in più ristoranti/caffeterie convenzionati.


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## esther.ve

*L*orena, scusa: il borgo potenziando i servizi di accoglienza e di ristoro diventerà un unico albergo diffuso, secondo una formula che va affermandosi in Italia da qualche anno.
london calling: l'albergo diffuso è quando un borgo (sia esso un villaggio, cioè un insieme di edifici storici non di pregio, per intenderci non i plazzi romani o fiorentini) per sopravvivere dedica tutti gli spazi non abitati da persone per ricevere turisti. *U*n caso emblematico è *V*enezia: di veneziani ce ne sono sempre meno, le case sono bed&brakfast, hotel, case per studenti e ristoranti, caffè, negozi di suvenir vari... in *I*talia moti piccoli centri si stanno spopolando quindi chi rimane si adegua al mercato che da noi è prevalentemente turistico. *I*n altri casi borghi abbandonati sono stati comperati da un investitire che li trasforma in villaggi vacanze...
*M*i sono spiegata questa volta?


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## Lorena1970

esther.ve said:


> lorena, scusa: il borgo potenziando i servizi di accoglienza e di ristoro diventerà un unico *albergo diffuso*, secondo una formula che va affermandosi in Italia da qualche anno.
> london calling: l'albergo diffuso è quando un borgo (sia esso un villaggio, cioè un insieme di edifici storici non di pregio, per intenderci non i plazzi romani o fiorentini) per sopravvivere dedica tutti gli spazi non abitati da persone per ricevere turisti. un caso emblematico è venezia: di veneziani ce ne sono sempre meno, le case sono bed&brakfast, hotel, case per studenti e ristoranti, caffè, negozi di suvenir vari... in italia moti piccoli centri si stanno spopolando quindi chi rimane si adegua al mercato che da noi è prevalentemente turistico. in altri casi borghi abbandonati sono stati comperati da un investitire che li trasforma in villaggi vacanze...
> mi sono spiegata questa volta?



Io avevo intuito perché conosco il processo che (finalmente!) hai descritto, ma qui sul forum siamo in tanti ed è giusto che chi chiede faccia lo sforzo di mettere TUTTI nella condizione di capire di cosa si parla. Scusa la ramanzina ma è il secondo post tuo oggi (relativo ad argomenti alquanto specifici e non semplici, per di più!) che trovo poco chiaro e confuso, mi sembrava giusto sottolinearlo. Nessuno qui ha la sfera di cristallo... Già che ci sono ti consiglio anche di controllare sempre la corrispondenza della frase originale alla tua proposta di traduzione, se no ci si perde.....

PS: al punto 3 del SECONDO LINK che ho postato prima, trovi anche la risposta alla tua domanda, ovvero CHE NON SI TRADUCE! (Copio e incollo dal suddetto documento/link)

*3*
*Come si traduce Albergo  diffuso?*


Multi building hotel?
Network of hotel buildings?
Extended hotel?
Diffuse hotel?
Distributed hospitality?
Per carità, Non fate così! 
*Albergo diffuso non si  traduce*. Resta sempre “*albergo diffuso*”. D'altronde  tradurreste Paradores? O Pousadas? O Ryokan?
I nomi dei modelli originali di ospitalità non si  traducono. G.D.


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## esther.ve

*S*cusa ma sto traducendo un paper molto complesso e vorrei evitare una traduzione letterale per cui smantello la sintassi sia per facilitarmi sia perché in inglese sono moooolto più concisi di noi...
*P*erò anche i tuoi link non riesco ad aprirli. *C*he faccio allora?* S*crivo hotel diffuso? *P*erché per spazi intertiziali mi sono arrangiata...
merci


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## london calling

Lorena1970 said:


> QUI è spiegato bene, sono paesini ristrutturati nei quali le camere sono sparpagliate qui e là mentre alcuni servizi sono concentrati in un edificio oppure in più ristoranti/caffeterie convenzionati.


Grazie, non funziona nemmeno questo, ma credo di aver capito di che si parla dalla tua spiegazione e da quella di Esther, grazie. Problema: mai sentito un unico termine che abbraccia tutto questo concetto in inglese.....
(Mi è capitato di essere ospitato in un antico borgo toscano trasformato in "appartamenti" ( e uffici) per gli ospiti (senza ristorante però: avevi la cucina attrezzata a disposizione).


_Edit.
_Il borgo di cui sopra viene descritto in rete come "appartments in a medieval hamlet".
Bed and Breakfast....be', questo lo sai.
Una villa da affittare sarebbe una "private villa"

Non puoi tagliare la testa con un "various kinds of accommodation" per poi descrivere la tipologia di alloggi disponibili?


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## Lorena1970

esther.ve said:


> scusa ma sto traducendo un paper molto complesso e vorrei evitare una traduzione letterale per cui smantello la sintassi sia per facilitarmi sia perché in inglese sono moooolto più concisi di noi... Tutti traduciamo "paper" complessi, ma ci sforziamo di spiegare chiaramente
> però anche i tuoi link non riesco ad aprirli. Prova ora che li ho corretti che faccio allora? scrivo hotel diffuso?Direi proprio di sì! perché per spazi intertiziali mi sono arrangiata...Ti avevo risposto, ma eviterei polemiche in questo thread: un thread, una domanda. Caso mai replica nel thread giusto!
> merci



Cercare anche su Google (vedi ultima voce della paginea linkata, che poi è il link che ho postato sopra e riposto QUI, e questo dovrebbe funzionare!) non fa male alla salute...Poi va benissimo discuterne sul forum, ci mancherebbe!


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## Moka Mafia

Just bumped into this thread while looking for something else.

As a loose translation, my suggestions are: outspread hotel, distributed hotel, delocalised hotel, decentrilised hotel.

These are just concept translations rather than definite translations, if you see what I mean. My favourite is outspread hotel.

In the Italian intention of the name "Hotel diffuso", the word diffuso indicates that the rooms are spread over a wide area such as a village or a town, where also other people normally live. While the management of the hotel is centralised, as usual, in a single building in one specific place in the same or a near town.


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## GavinW

Moka Mafia said:


> My favourite is outspread hotel.



That's a pity: it's meaningless! ;-)
But I quite like "decentralised hotel" (note spelling). Ammesso e non concesso that we want to translate "albergo diffuso" (and, as stated earlier, it's probable that we don't want to translate it at all most times, but leave it in Italian with a gloss, or brief description, when necessary), this could be a good fall-back term to use.
Thanks for contributing to this old thread; I hadn't heard the term before! ;-)


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## You little ripper!

Moka Mafia said:


> Just bumped into this thread while looking for something else.
> 
> As a loose translation, my suggestions are: outspread hotel, distributed hotel, delocalised hotel, decentrilised hotel.
> 
> These are just concept translations rather than definite translations, if you see what I mean. My favourite is outspread hotel.
> 
> In the Italian intention of the name "Hotel diffuso", the word diffuso indicates that the rooms are spread over a wide area such as a village or a town, where also other people normally live. While the management of the hotel is centralised, as usual, in a single building in one specific place in the same or a near town.


MM, there are quite a few Google listings for "decentraliz(s)ed hotel". They are described exactly as you say with a common reception/administration and dining area, and the buildings containing the bedrooms are spread out over a wider area.


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## Teerex51

An expression with considerable currency is _"scattered hotel"_. With 22K G-hits, it appears to be more widely used than any of its competitors.


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## Lorena1970

Teerex51 said:


> An expression with considerable currency is _"scattered hotel"_.



Given that Architectural Review uses this term, I wouldn't look further.

*EDIT*: Actually the link posted by Longplay worked perfectly. Here it is, and I think it is useful to understand the concept.


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## Moka Mafia

Teerex51 said:


> An expression with considerable currency is _"scattered hotel"_. With 22K G-hits, it appears to be more widely used than any of its competitors.



That does it!


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## joanvillafane

Interesting discussion and thanks for the link, Lorena.  Before jumping on the "scattered hotel" bandwagon, you might want to check out this comment from someone who seems to be on the inside of this movement:
http://albergo-diffuso.blogspot.it/2012/02/albergo-diffuso-non-si-deve-tradurre-ma.html


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## Lorena1970

joanvillafane said:


> Interesting discussion and thanks for the link, Lorena.  Before jumping on the "scattered hotel" bandwagon, you might want to check out this comment from someone who seems to be on the inside of this movement:
> http://albergo-diffuso.blogspot.it/2012/02/albergo-diffuso-non-si-deve-tradurre-ma.html



Hi Joan and thanks - see post#10: I already came to that conclusion (I investigated this subject earlier than now) and I agree that it shouldn't be translated, as it is an Italian "brand". But in light of what AR says (a magazine which is to be considered a Bible both for  subjects and language), I think that, wanting to translate it, "_scattered hotel_" is the right term.

EDIT: re AR - of course it is BE


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## longplay

Riferimento a precedente post cancellato per incompletezza del "link" (MI SCUSO) : potrebbe essere utile guardare :
http://albergo-diffuso.blogspot.com/2012_02_01_archive.html : ci dovrebbe essere una tesi (estratto) e un articolo (n.2) riguardante la traduzione. In ogni caso, a chi
interessi : si può cercare nel web (google) : "alberghi diffusi e ospitalità diffusa : febbraio 2012" . Saluti e scuse.


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## You little ripper!

Teerex51 said:


> An expression with considerable currency is _"scattered hotel"_. With 22K G-hits, it appears to be more widely used than any of its competitors.


Sorry, Mr T, but I don't like _scattered hotel _at all! Even though it has a lot more Google hits, it's just a literal translation that appears to have caught on (a lot of them put it in inverted commas or will actually say that it is a literal translation). 'Decentralized' sounds a lot better to my native ear.


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## Lorena1970

In full respect for your native ears YLR, I feel like striking a blow  for  Mr. T here. The Architectural Review, the most authoritative British  architecture magazine, uses that term "scattered hotel" in an article re  the refurbishing of a village that is being transformed in hotel in Italy (see  my link  post # 18). Of course I am not a native, but I am used to read AR and  trust its language as reliably correct and contemporary at same time.


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## You little ripper!

Lorena1970 said:


> In full respect for your native ears YLR, I feel like striking a blow  for  Mr. T here. The Architectural Review, the most authoritative British  architecture magazine, uses that term "scattered hotel" in an article re  the refurbishing of a village that is being transformed in hotel in Italy (see  my link  post # 18). Of course I am not a native, but I am used to read AR and  trust its language as reliably correct and contemporary at same time.


With all respect to Architectural Digest, Lo, I think the writer is doing what most of the others in those links are doing - translating literally. 'Scattered hotel' sounds what it is - a literal translation. If I were to read or hear that expression without the explanation that normally accompanies it, I would think the hotel had been hit by a tornado!


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## Lorena1970

You little ripper! said:


> 'Scattered hotel' sounds what it is - a literal translation. If I were to read or hear that expression without the explanation that normally accompanies it, I would think the hotel had been hit by a tornado!



I agree that it may sound ridiculous, but this often happens with neologisms. Being the original term Italian (and given that the best would be to  avoid any translation, but facts show that it seems impossible to avoid it), "decentralis(z)ed hotel" sounds more a literal  translation to my Italian ears than "scattered" ( I also notice that many websites which uses this term are Italian or anyway not British/English). Anyway, personally I am inclided to trust  architects' say re such kind of subjects.


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## You little ripper!

Lorena1970 said:


> I agree that it may sound ridiculous, but this often happens with neologisms. Being the original term Italian (and given that the best would be to  avoid any translation, but facts show that it seems impossible to avoid it), ...............


'Scattered hotel' could very well become standard English, Lo, but until the expression is used without inverted commas by everyone who uses it, it's still a literal translation, in my opinion.



> "decentralis(z)ed hotel" sounds more a literal  translation to my Italian ears than "scattered".


You don't have a native English ear, Lo - it's not.


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## Lorena1970

Well, I perfectly understand your point YLR . So, having to translate "Albergo diffuso", would you discard "scattered hotel" in favour of "decentralis(z)ed hotel" or would you use it with inverted commas...?  This is another reliable and interesting website (I know it is German!), just to learn a bit more about this new concept.


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## You little ripper!

Lorena1970 said:


> Well, I perfectly understand your point YLR . So, having to translate "Albergo diffuso", would you discard "scattered hotel" in favour of "decentralis(z)ed hotel" or would you use it with inverted commas...?


I would use 'decentralized hotel' or leave it as it is with a brief explanation using the word 'decentralized'.  If someone wants to use 'scattered hotel', it would be best put in inverted commas, in my opinion. 



> This is another reliable and interesting website (I know it is German!), just to learn a bit more about this new concept.


Did you notice that they keep saying "loosely translated as _scattered hotel_", with the 'scattered hotel' in italics, Lo?


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## Lorena1970

You little ripper! said:


> Did you notice that they keep saying "loosely translated as _scattered hotel_", with the 'scattered hotel' in italics, Lo?


Well, to be precise I noticed that they write both "_albergo diffuso_" and "_scattered hotel_" in italics... And of course they say it is a loose translation. Nothing against this from me: it is indeed a loose translation (I think). But I have also noticed that most of websites which write "scattered hotel" (inverted commas) are quite old, whilst the most recent have abandoned "  " . Haven't you?


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## You little ripper!

> Well, to be precise I noticed that they write both "_albergo diffuso_" and "_scattered hotel_" in italics...


The reason 'albergo diffuso' is in italics is because it's an Italian expression used on a web page written in English.



Lorena1970 said:


> But I have also noticed that most of websites which write "scattered hotel" (inverted commas) are quite old, whilst the most recent have abandoned "  " . Haven't you?


No, I hadn't; the first 'scattered hotel' Google link I clicked onto (just after the last one you posted a link to) was dated 2012; it was in inverted commas. No disrespect, Lo, but I don't really want to argue the point any further. You can translate it as you wish - I was merely giving my view as an English native.


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## longplay

Little R. , the problem is that even in pure italian "albergo diffuso" has no meaning ; it's very similar to "appartamento diffuso" ( !?? ). I share your point of view : NO disrespect, but please, no further discussion ..


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## GavinW

This is a very interesting question, which has generated a lot of different responses, and different points of view.



longplay said:


> NO disrespect, but please, no further discussion ..



Some foreros may have thought longplay was telling us not to exchange any more opinions on this. Actually, I think LP was trying to say "no more arguing" (discussione). Actually, I quite like both debate and argument, as long as everyone plays by the rules! And I haven’t seen anyone getting heated here. 

Most foreros are familiar with the processes that have to be negotiated before a neologism can be accepted and established in a language. I believe we have an added difficulty here, given that the term is not yet widely established in Italian itself, even. This creates a further obstacle to its acceptance in another language (ie, here, English). The presence or absence or inverted commas is simply one of the many symptoms, or products, of the fact that this negotiation is still ongoing. 

The main difficulty I've found with the thread so far is a tendency by some contributors to be over-prescriptive. In other words, some have set out from first principles, as it were, and tried to argue the case for one solution rather than another on the grounds of what often boils down to mere poetics. There is often a lot of scope for poetics (by which I mean the "sound" of a term to a native speaker), which of course is closely bound up with the internal logic of the component linguistic elements that make up the term (ie literal meaning, self-explanatory value etc). But it can fail to give enough space to the pragmatic approach. By which I mean that tourist operators trying to sell the idea of the “albergo diffuso” have a legitimate interest in seeking to establish the currency of a specific, fixed term to describe what it is they’re trying to sell, sometimes regardless of the “sensibilities” of the native ear, or cultural implications, etc (sometimes with disastrous effects, as the history of advertising has shown!). Thus there is a kind of “competition” over the term (or terms: we have seen that “hotel diffuso” is a variant). This competition is perhaps exacerbated by the interest of some people in the sector to establish their claim that this hotel format is a uniquely Italian phenomenon. 

Now, I’ve seen at least one village in Portugal run along the lines of an “albergo diffuso”, and we can all imagine the formula migrating, or appearing, elsewhere. I would argue that the mere fact we can imagine this outside Italy, whether or not it is actually ever reproduced outside Italy, is some justification for allowing for a translation of the term in English (without necessarily substituting this for the Italian term on each and every occurrence). But this is almost a political question that I don’t think we need to explore all that much.

All in all, I think we should all be prepared, as consumers of holiday solutions and as consumers of language (!), to be more tolerant (linguistically, not emotionally) of the terms being referred to here, both in Italian and English, bearing in mind the fact not everyone is going to be happy all the time with all the terms being used. Given that we, as individuals, can have no control over the currency or otherwise of neologisms. And given that we (here at WR) can do little more than comment on the degree to which we are aware of the currency (or otherwise) of terms in languages we are familiar with.

In any case, context is king (as always). In other words, the nature of the context itself will usually determine how much acceptance of a given term is assumed or advocated. An Italian tourist brochure in English will likely bang on about “albergo diffuso” and/or “hotel diffuso”, and may or may not negotiate for the reader’s understanding and acceptance of the term by giving a gloss eg decentralized hotel, delocalized hotel, multi-site hotel or whatever. And the choice of inverted commas will be merely subjective. An architectural journal may have differing interests. It matters not. Only the vox populi will count in the end. In other words, a synthesis of all the “voices” that have been expressed in the development of the concept.

If “scattered hotel” be it, then so be it (for me and, I would argue, for us). On functional, pragmatic grounds. On grounds of simple usage. But if it does not become established, this should not be because it is seen as an imperfect translation of another term. Different individuals will always have their gripes, anyway. If, on the other hand, the original Italian term becomes as established in English as, say, “agriturismo”, then this will be a victory for another camp. We here at WR, and the public at large, can say what we feel should be the term used, but that will always be a subjective and individual view. At our most objective, we can say that the logic (including semantics/meaning) and poetics (including our well-known friend “euphony”) of a particular language will or will not easily tolerate a particular term, translation, or solution. But that’s about it.

Sorry for the long post. I do not consider my views to be necessarily exhaustive or authoritative, and hope the discussion continues!


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## longplay

La tua dissertazione è veramente ottima: la lingua si evolva... ! Posso fare solo un paio di commenti : "agri" sta per "agricolo" e può essere digerito da inglesi, spagnoli ecc. .
"albergo" + "diffuso" (ti confesso che neanche lo conoscevo), lo trovo poco digeribile in italiano ! Se uno sa di cosa si tratta , potrebbe pensare a "borghi-albergo" o 
"città albergo" (piccole città) che, tra l'altro può essere confuso con "grandi complessi alberghieri" dotati di tutto ciò che si può trovare in una città (servizi ecc.).
Non insisto, ma non vorrei che si arrivasse a "manicomio diffuso" o "chirurgia diffusa"... ! .
Comunque, liberi al massimo, ma "cum grano salis" ! Ti saluto con simpatia, Gavin !


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## Lorena1970

GavinW said:


> This is a very interesting question, which has generated a lot of different responses, and different points of view.



Of course cannot quote the whole post. One and only word: Chapeau!


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## Moka Mafia

I would use scattered hotel, decentralised hotel and the likes with inverted comas. Or in brackets, just after the Italian original term albergo diffuso, with inverted comas possibly. But not as a straight translation, at least not at this stage of the neologism history. As mentioned there are still many Italians who wouldn't know what that means if they read it or heard it in their language.


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## longplay

Come ha detto Gawin , ci sono due linee in conflitto : i "conservatori" (compreso me) e gli interessati al "trade mark" turistico. Girando un po' nel web, ho trovato anche un
articolo de "Il sole-24ore" : i grandi sponsor dell ' "albergo diffuso" e del connesso "marketing" non sono innumerevoli ma , mi sembra, stanno guadagnando terreno... .
Io resterei a favore di "borgo-albergo" (se i mod me lo consentono, in spagnolo si usa anche "pueblo hotel"). Ma.. non ci scommetto neanche 1€cent. ! Cordiali saluti a tutti .


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