# Filipino languages: Mag, Man, Um



## Ajura

I was thinking about the proper use of the (M)ag,Man and Um commonly found in philippine idioms/languages,can you clear this out to me.

I really find Mag better before verbs that begin before vowels and -Um- in Verbs that start in consonants....


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## niernier

I think you got it wrong if you are claiming that mag verbs start only with vowels and um verbs in consonants. Um and mag verbs can start either with a vowel or a consonant. Additionally, English loan verbs are mag verbs, but there is no clear-cut rule how to classify local Tagalog verbs in the um and mag paradigms.

Some examples of mag verbs:
magcomputer, magfile, magsimba, mag-ayos, mag-utos

Some examples of um verbs:
sumigaw, umalis, kumanta, umamin

To form the infinitve of an um verb, always insert um before the first occurrence of a vowel in the root word as in the verbs sumigaw(to shout) and umalis(to leave).

The distinction between the um and mag verbs has long been a topic of inquiry, particularly in Tagalog, because other Central Philippine languages have lost, if not all the distinction between the two verbal paradigms. There is a semantic feature in each of the verb that caused Tagalog to choose between one of the two verbal paradigms. But in modern Bicol, there is no semantic contrast comparable to that in Tagalog. Almost all of our modern Bicol verbs are found in the mag paradigm except for a small number of verbs that follow a different paradigm instead.

These are examples of verbs in Tagalog that are classified as mag verbs in Bicol.

sumigaw (Tag.) -> magkurahaw (Bicol)
umalis -> maghali
kumanta -> magkanta
sumagot -> magsimbag
matulog (ma- verb) - magturog
manood (ma- verb) - magdalan


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## sean de lier

I agree, there's no clear-cut rule for classifying verbs among the mag-, ma- or -um- constructions. A learner must learn what construction the verb takes; though there are a few instances where you would be understood if you use whether mag- or -um- constructions:

_Simba_ ("go to church"/"worship")
"We went to church at Baclaran yesterday."
_Nagsimba kami sa Baclaran kahapon._ (mag- construction)
_Sumimba kami sa Baclaran kahapon. _(-um- construction)
In both cases you will be understood, though _nagsimba_ is preferred.

_Kain_ ("eat")
"We ate shrimp."
_Nagkain kami __ng hipon__. _(mag- construction)
_Kumain kami ng hipon. _(-um- construction)
If you say _nagkain_ in Manila Tagalog, you would elicit odd looks at the best, and laughter at the worst. _Kumain_ is the correct construction.

_Luto_ ("cook")
"Mother cooked pork stew."
_Nagluto ang nanay ng nilagang baboy._ (mag- construction)
_Lumuto ang nanay ng nilagang baboy._ (-um- construction)
_Lumuto_ sounds odd, if you were to ask me. _Nagluto_ is the correct construction.

Whether a verb is takes mag- ma- or -um- construction may be different depending on the dialects involved. (My examples above are based on Manila Tagalog.) For example, Cavite Tagalog tends to use ma- construction for some -um- verbs, mixing even aspects in the process. Thus:

"Have you eaten already?" (Perfect Aspect)
Cavite Tagalog: _Nakakain ka na ba?_ (ma- construction for progressive aspect)
Manila Tagalog: _Kumain ka na ba?_ (-um- construction)

"Are you eating (now)?" (Progressive Aspect)
Cavite Tagalog: _Nakain ka na ba?_ (ma- construction for perfect aspect)
Manila Tagalog: _Kumakain ka na ba?_ (-um- construction)


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## Ajura

niernier said:


> I think you got it wrong if you are claiming that mag verbs start only with vowels and um verbs in consonants. Um and mag verbs can start either with a vowel or a consonant. Additionally, English loan verbs are mag verbs, but there is no clear-cut rule how to classify local Tagalog verbs in the um and mag paradigms.
> 
> Some examples of mag verbs:
> magcomputer, magfile, magsimba, mag-ayos, mag-utos
> 
> Some examples of um verbs:
> sumigaw, umalis, kumanta, umamin
> 
> To form the infinitve of an um verb, always insert um before the first occurrence of a vowel in the root word as in the verbs sumigaw(to shout) and umalis(to leave).
> 
> The distinction between the um and mag verbs has long been a topic of inquiry, particularly in Tagalog, because other Central Philippine languages have lost, if not all the distinction between the two verbal paradigms. There is a semantic feature in each of the verb that caused Tagalog to choose between one of the two verbal paradigms. But in modern Bicol, there is no semantic contrast comparable to that in Tagalog. Almost all of our modern Bicol verbs are found in the mag paradigm except for a small number of verbs that follow a different paradigm instead.
> 
> These are examples of verbs in Tagalog that are classified as mag verbs in Bicol.
> 
> sumigaw (Tag.) -> magkurahaw (Bicol)
> umalis -> maghali
> kumanta -> magkanta
> sumagot -> magsimbag
> matulog (ma- verb) - magturog
> manood (ma- verb) - magdalan


Actually there is an example of acceptable use of <um>, <mag> and the nasal assimilation that are interchangeable in a sentence an example is sita,which means criticize.

Ang sama niyang magsita
Ang sama niyang sumita
Ang sama niyang manita

I heard all these forms being used.

Which is the most acceptable in them...

um can be either infinitive or past tense but mag- has a past tense form and that is nag-


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## Ajura

sean de lier said:


> I agree, there's no clear-cut rule for classifying verbs among the mag-, ma- or -um- constructions. A learner must learn what construction the verb takes; though there are a few instances where you would be understood if you use whether mag- or -um- constructions:
> 
> _Simba_ ("go to church"/"worship")
> "We went to church at Baclaran yesterday."
> _Nagsimba kami sa Baclaran kahapon._ (mag- construction)
> _Sumimba kami sa Baclaran kahapon. _(-um- construction)
> In both cases you will be understood, though _nagsimba_ is preferred.
> 
> _Kain_ ("eat")
> "We ate shrimp."
> _Nagkain kami __ng hipon__. _(mag- construction)
> _Kumain kami ng hipon. _(-um- construction)
> If you say _nagkain_ in Manila Tagalog, you would elicit odd looks at the best, and laughter at the worst. _Kumain_ is the correct construction.
> 
> _Luto_ ("cook")
> "Mother cooked pork stew."
> _Nagluto ang nanay ng nilagang baboy._ (mag- construction)
> _Lumuto ang nanay ng nilagang baboy._ (-um- construction)
> _Lumuto_ sounds odd, if you were to ask me. _Nagluto_ is the correct construction.
> 
> Whether a verb is takes mag- ma- or -um- construction may be different depending on the dialects involved. (My examples above are based on Manila Tagalog.) For example, Cavite Tagalog tends to use ma- construction for some -um- verbs, mixing even aspects in the process. Thus:
> 
> "Have you eaten already?" (Perfect Aspect)
> Cavite Tagalog: _Nakakain ka na ba?_ (ma- construction for progressive aspect)
> Manila Tagalog: _Kumain ka na ba?_ (-um- construction)
> 
> "Are you eating (now)?" (Progressive Aspect)
> Cavite Tagalog: _Nakain ka na ba?_ (ma- construction for perfect aspect)
> Manila Tagalog: _Kumakain ka na ba?_ (-um- construction)



Nakain Kita means We ate in Cavite and Batangas Idiom right?


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## sean de lier

Ajura said:


> Nakain Kita means We ate in Cavite and Batangas Idiom right?


Um, no. It means more like, "I am eating you." _Nakain_ in Cavite Tagalog is in the progressive aspect, even though in Manila Tagalog it is in the perfect aspect. _Kita_ is also the wrong pronoun to use, since _kita_ is "you" in the accusative case, like:
"I slapped you."
_Sinampal kita._

"We ate" would most likely be _Nakakain_ _tayo_ or _Nakakain kami_. _Tayo_ is "we", in which the person you are speaking to is included; _Kami_ is "we" in which the person you are speaking to is excluded.


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## Ajura

sean de lier said:


> Um, no. It means more like, "I am eating you." _Nakain_ in Cavite Tagalog is in the progressive aspect, even though in Manila Tagalog it is in the perfect aspect. _Kita_ is also the wrong pronoun to use, since _kita_ is "you" in the accusative case, like:
> "I slapped you."
> _Sinampal kita._
> 
> "We ate" would most likely be _Nakakain_ _tayo_ or _Nakakain kami_. _Tayo_ is "we", in which the person you are speaking to is included; _Kami_ is "we" in which the person you are speaking to is excluded.



But I heard that some use Kita instead of tayo in south calabarzon.


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## mikeneve

Verb conjugation is sometime fast and loose in Tagalog. A good rule for beginners is to use mag when in doubt, at least you'll be understood. But there really is a precise art to verb use in Tagalog, it is really what distinguishes fluency. Really the best book to look at is Tagalog Verb Guide by Hawkins and Gallo-Crail. Its concise and affordable, but it makes verbs easy.


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## mataripis

Tagalog shared many similar word and prefixes with other Philippine dialect.  e.g. speak could be 'magsalita', Manalita, Sumalita. and in dumaget this can be expressed as Magsorot, manorot and sumorot.. the english equivalent = you speak(time duration indicated), you speak (continiously or fluently),you speak (occasionally)or answer in tagalog when needed.


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