# 文化



## L3P

各位好：

Can`t seem to figure out the meaning of 文化 in the following:

他虽然文化不高，但还愿意在街道上作一些工作 - ‘the level of her education isn`t high’ or 'she doesn`t have a higher education'？

他虽然没文化，但是十分聪明 - 没文化 = 没有文化 = ‘doesn`t have a higher education’ or ‘hasn`t even gone to school’?


预致谢意。


----------



## dolmens

文化不高 means "don't have much education". BTW, I think this word is badly written, 文化程度不高 is a better choice here.
没文化 in the second sentence means 'illiterate, unable to read and write'.


----------



## Skatinginbc

I would reserve "没文化" for those that are not only illiterate but also crude and barbarous in manners.


----------



## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> but also crude and barbarous in manners



That would be 没家教，没教养，不文明。

没文化 only means illiterate. The expression is less used today but can be often seen in earlier narratives (pre-1980 perhaps), when there was a significant illiterate population. It doesn't carry any implications about manners.


----------



## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> 没文化 only means illiterate.


Interesting!  So 中国的有钱人不仅仅素质差没文化品味低俗 means "中国的有钱人大多是文盲" in the Chinese language of Mainland China?


----------



## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> 中国的有钱人不仅仅素质差没文化品味低俗



Thanks- I almost forget that contemporary use of 没文化 (especially online) which has a completely different meaning from the OP's example. You can see this from my post above where I wrongly conclude that expression is rarely used today. So, to correct myself, 没文化 has two different meanings in mainland Chinese. With the time & context of the narrative, one should easily tell which meaning applies:
- Earlier usage (novels, reports, mostly before the 1980s): illiterate
- Current usage (oral, online): shallow, lowbrow

Note that the latter usage is not exactly the same as being rude or barbarous. That is covered by 素质差 in your example. 没文化 is closer to 品位低俗， lack of intellectual depth or good taste. I'm not sure if this usage is also seen in Taiwan, in mainland China it is arguably related to the Cultural Revolution and the subsequent economic reforms, which some believe have ruined the rich Chinese culture and created a new "culture-less" generation. But those who are accused of 没文化 in this context are usually educated, even well-educated, and well-off. Sometimes it is used in self-mockery. 

Examples: 有知识没文化 (poor taste)，没文化真可怕 (ignorance of something beyond the level of literacy and common sense)   

Still I feel the contemporary usage of 没文化 is not as common (less among the older people?) or consistent as the previous usage (illiterate) a few decades ago. My grandparents for instance would definitely understand 没文化 as illiterate. Also even today it is rarely used to refer to bad manners_ per se_. There has to be some ignorance involved.


----------



## Skatinginbc

I'm sure I wrote 'crude' (i.e., unrefined), not 'rude'.


----------



## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> I'm sure I wrote 'crude' (i.e., unrefined), not 'rude'.



I wrote a lengthy post to contribute my opinion to the discussion, not to prove any particular person wrong. So, forgive me if my post doesn't seem to be a word-by-word refutation of those I quoted. I agree that "crude" is somewhat closer to the meaning of 没文化 in the modern context than "rude", which is why I chose the latter (to make my points clear). However I feel crude is still more about manners than intellectual depth/insight/taste, and 没文化 refers to lack of the latter.


----------



## fyl

In Chinese culture, learning reading and writing, learning academics, learning morality, learning proper manners are often deeply related. So sometimes it is not easy to make a clear distinction.
But to me, the literal meaning of 没文化 is closer to "uneducated" than "unrefined manners". When people use 没文化 to describe "unrefined manners", they are using "uneducated" to describe bad manners, and that kind of wording shows their anger -- it harshly put the person with bad manners to a lower position of 低素质，没上过学. Well, I'm not sure if I'm able to describe it clearly in English.

BTW, in the link provided by Skatinginbc, the 没文化 seems to mean uneducated actually. It comes together with 素质差 and 品位低, and the 3 words relate to and strengthen each other, of course.


----------



## ElGarcia

fyl said:


> learning reading and writing, learning academics, learning morality, learning proper manners are often deeply related.



Agreed- and that correlation is not unique in Chinese culture I think. But 没文化 more refers to the intellectual part than the moral/etiquette part. In earlier usage (illiterate) I would say it is neutral; the illiterate person could be rather nice. Even in modern usage I think it is not quite as harsh as 低素质，没素质，which would surely be an accusation (often with annoyance or contempt). 没文化 however is sometimes used jokingly between friends when someone is ignorant of something:

- 你连高行健都没听说过？这么没文化呢（laugh）
- 你记得”野渡无人舟自横“的上一句吗？ - 忘了，没文化不好意思（self-mockery）

In these cases neither the accuser nor the accused is necessarily angry, and the expression 没文化 obviously has nothing to do with 素质, manners, or crudeness.


----------



## fyl

Yeah, I agree. 没文化 depends on the context indeed. 她虽然没有什么文化，但识大体、通大礼，在街坊四邻中有很高的声誉 is a valid sentence and it's not criticizing the lady. The sentences in #1 are also only about education level and not the other things. What I talked about in the previous post was only for the case that people use 没文化 to describe bad manners.


----------



## Skatinginbc

没文化 means 没有文化, the opposite of 有文化 ("having refined taste and manners and good education").  Does it necessarily entail manners and taste?  Given the responses from other posters, I believe it does not have to in Mainland Mandarin.  But to me, it does.  It is an adjective and can be modified by 很 (i.e., 很没文化, compare: *很没受過教育*), an evaluative statement about a person's characters (思想個性, 言行舉止) that 不登大雅之堂, not a factual statement like 她没受過什么教育.  In other words, I would take it 'personal'.  韋小寶虽然没文化，但十分聪明 ==> 韋小寶虽然言行粗鄙, 品味庸俗, 不識大字, 但十分聪明.

「中国的土豪和二代们通常没有什么文化，即使上过好的大学，后来的生活也很堕落，知识文化丢光。 每天除了知道赚钱，就是和狐朋狗党去吃喝嫖赌，到夜总会招嫖，到按摩店按摩，带上小姐高档饭店吃喝。」 ==> Obviously, 没文化 in this case is not so much about education as about manners and taste.  你个没文化的大学生 is apparently an insult about one's characters, not a factual statement about one's illiteracy.


----------



## ElGarcia

It certainly depends on the contexts. Like I've repeated a few times, in more traditional usage, 没文化 means illiterate, as in the OP's example #2. In the same context 文化不高 would mean "without much education", so 文化 here means education only.

The later evolved meaning of 没文化 is more ambiguous, though it appears to have more to do with broader knowledge or taste rather than education/manners. 没文化的大学生 could be an insult but obviously an insult towards one's intellectual capacity, not one's personality or morals.


----------



## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> Like I've repeated a few times, in more *traditional* usage, 没文化 means illiterate


References, please.  I actually thought 文化 = literacy is a Mainland thing.


ElGarcia said:


> as in the OP's example...文化 here means education only.


The context is insufficient for me.  It has something to do with education, but I'm not sure it is about education only.


ElGarcia said:


> later evolved meaning of 没文化 is more ambiguous, though it appears to have more to do with broader knowledge or taste rather than education/manners.


「“没文化”现今是个贬人而又很流行的时髦词儿, 它不单指见识简陋、穿着俗气、排队莽撞、随地吐痰、举止粗蛮、见利忘义、张口大蒜味儿；它的精妙之处在于：用它的时候不必理会对象是否识字，是否受过高等到教育，是否名人，只要他的言行与“没文化”沾上边，照样可以被说成“没文化”。」 ==> The so-called new development is about 言行 (mannerism).


----------



## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> References, please. I actually thought 文化 = literacy is a Mainland thing.



Unfortunately I cannot find any references online as 没文化 used to be an informal expression of illiterate and not often found in formal texts (Edit: see the end of this post). It should be more seen in novels or reportage but I cannot think of any examples on top of my head. But that meaning does exist and was once used widely; dolmens 2# also knows this. My parents, grandparents, etc. would still use 没文化 that way. It could well be a mainland thing, but I think it applies to the OP's example anyways.



Skatinginbc said:


> The context is insufficient for me.



The second half of the sentence （但却十分聪明） rules out the possibility of 没文化 being an intellectual insult/criticism.



Skatinginbc said:


> 「“没文化”现今是个贬人而又很流行的时髦词儿,



If you search 没文化 on Google or 百度 and scan a few pages of the top results, it should be obvious that the majority of uses involve some kind of ignorance (明星不识字，政府公文出错误，不懂科学/迷信行为 etc.) The article you cited is poorly written with confusing logic and a lot of grammar/character errors. If I were made to comment such a piece I might describe the author as 没有多少文化，without meaning any offense of course.


Edit: This might be considered as an example of 文化 meaning literacy/education only: "……作者曲波说杨子荣的特点是……“朴素、淳厚、勇猛、机智仁义。外形特点像农民，但谈起话来很精明，眼睛非常明亮，遇见事他要什么有什么；*没有文化*，但水浒等都背的下来。“——雪原侠影：杨子荣，一个“非典型性英雄”


----------



## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> The second half of the sentence （但却十分聪明） rules out the possibility of 没文化 being an intellectual insult/criticism.


如遇到人品不好，但卻十分聰明，成績又甚為出色的同學，我反而最為擔心 ==> 人品不好 is a criticism. 
剧中的前原佳彦是一名日本军官，为人虽阴险狡诈_, _但却十分聪明_ ==> _阴险狡诈 is a criticism. 
 紀曉嵐從小就口齒伶俐，雖然調皮, 但卻十分聰明 ==> 調皮 is a criticism.  

知识不等于文化--作者为上海社会科学院副院长
没文化人的十大特征: 要面子, 不懂装懂, 失约失信, 不友善不愿助人, 盲目自信不听忠告, 粗鲁无礼, 欺软怕硬, 浮躁, 易犯罪, 最怕别人说自己没文化.  How many of the listed features concern behaviorism? 
I have not doubt that some people in Mainland China would use 没文化 for "illiterate" only.  I'm also certain that 没文化 may be construed by some people as an insult/criticism.  Anyway, the context provided by the OP is insufficient for me to assert the exact meaning of 没文化 in "他虽然没文化，但是十分聪明".  All I can say is: it is probably about education, but I'm not sure it is ONLY about education.


----------



## ElGarcia

ElGarcia said:


> The second half of the sentence （但却十分聪明） rules out the possibility of 没文化 being an *intellectual* insult/criticism.



Interpreting 没文化 in that sentence as "being rude/barbarous/low" in that sentence is not impossible or grammarly incorrect, but it really doesn't make much sense in actual conversation.



Skatinginbc said:


> I have not doubt that some people in Mainland China would use 没文化 for "illiterate" only. I'm also certain that 没文化 may be construed by some people as an insult/criticism.



"Some... some..." is not very helpful. I do not deny that some may use 没文化 to refer to poor manners/morals, but according to my personal experiences and understanding of the Chinese language that is not the major/mainstream meaning of that phrase. However, the language itself is always evolving, and with people who have similar preferences as you it is not impossible that one day "没文化“ would become an attack on manners/morals to the majority of Chinese speakers.


----------



## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> "Some... some..." is not very helpful.


It is helpful in the sense that it reminds them of the possibility that someone (though not the majority) may take it personal.  My ears perked up when I once heard it used as a synonym for 'illiterate' on a Mainland TV show.  My point is: My ears perked up.  It is highly marked to me so that my ears pricked up.

文化 is glossed as (1) 文治教化, and (2) 人類在歷史發展過程中創造的總成果。包括宗教、道德、藝術、科學等各方面 in 國語辭典.  It does NOT include "literacy" 运用文字的能力及一般知识.  Obviously, there is a dialectal difference here.


----------



## brofeelgood

If someone is described to me as 没文化, I would instinctively picture an uncultured/unrefined boor who lacks social manners. This could be the result of poor upbringing, lack of education, conceit, uppityness or just plain asininity. Most likely, a combination.

Without supporting context, here's what comes to mind when I see the following terms:

Lack of upbringing - 没教养 (more of an insult to the family/parents)
Uneducated/Illiterate - 未受教育/文盲
Ignorant - 无知


----------



## lindholmen

Again, what 没文化 means really depends on the context. 

*...没有文化*，但水浒等都背的下来. Very clear example provided by ElGarcia to be interpreted as 没有受过文化教育.
他虽然*没文化*，但是十分聪明 -  Without further context, to me, it is the same as above. 

But it can absolutely refer to poor manner, traits, or taste etc., which makes it difficult to tell the clear distinction without clear context.


----------



## SuperXW

The connotation of the word is indeed debatable. That's why it is better to avoid directly using it on anyone or it would become offensive.
Like many offensive terms, at the beginning, they didn't have any bad meanings literally, but the implied negative labels would gradually become obvious. Time and place make differences.


lindholmen said:


> Again, what 没文化 means really depends on the context.
> 
> *...没有文化*，但水浒等都背的下来. Very clear example provided by ElGarcia to be interpreted as 没有受过文化教育.
> 他虽然*没文化*，但是十分聪明 -  Without further context, to me, it is the same as above.
> 
> But it can absolutely refer to poor manner, traits, or taste etc., which makes it difficult to tell the clear distinction without clear context.


----------



## iCreeps

文化不高：is " not having a sufficiently high education "
  没文化：you can say this to someone if u try to be mean lol.  But this means  "have no knowledge/education"


----------

