# Baptism of fire



## TheUnitedStatesOfEurope

大家好

我要说: "第一次我去中国我汉语特别差, 这是一个 _baptism of fire_ 了". "The first time i went to China, it was for me the _baptism of fire_." How can  we say this idiom in Madarin please? It means actually, that it was the very first time for me, that i left Europe for such a far away foreign country, knowing the fact my chinese was rubbish. A _baptism of fire_ means to begin something in harsh conditions, but it implies that, by keeping endeavouring forcefully, i succeeded and got through difficulties at then end!

Thank you in advance.

谢谢大家 !

真对不起,可是我汉语还差得远呢啊... !!! ^^


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## yoyojiang

I guess it should be "严峻的考验"


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## Ghabi

Not really. The expression means you learn something "the hard way". I can't think of any good Chinese equivalent at the moment.


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## 我说汉语

an idiom isn an idiom. 
Different cultures share something in common, but impossible to share everything the same way.
_baptism of fire_ is just something different. 
If you must to translate it into chinese, it's fine. You will finally get something close to it or "like it" but it's unlikely to be Real Chinese or Natural Chinese. It might sound "foreign" to the native speakers.


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## kath_01

literal translation 火的洗礼
HOWEVER, as above has mentioned the cultural differences, 
in Chinese, this literal translation usually refers to a place went through a battle, a war

since "baptism by fire" describes anyone doing something the hard way for the first time. 
so you may want to just translate the meaning of it. as i have a hard time thinking of a equivalent Chinese idiom.

my suggestion: 第一次[艰辛/严峻/艰钜]的考验
meaning: the first difficult , harsh challenge


side note:
I think to describe that situation, we might have an informal saying in Cantonese:
第一次苛熗實彈
meaning the first time to carry a real gun and bullet to the battle field, instead those fake ones used in training.
(as a metaphor to, now you're not in the trainning environment anymore, but instead you're dealing with the real deal)
I"m wondering if there's similar saying in Mandarin.


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## Ghabi

kath_01 said:


> I think to describe that situation, we might have an informal saying in Cantonese:
> 第一次荷槍實彈
> meaning the first time to carry a real gun and bullet to the battle field, instead those fake ones used in training.
> (as a metaphor to, now you're not in the trainning environment anymore, but instead you're dealing with the real deal)
> I"m wondering if there's similar saying in Mandarin.


Forgive my nitpicking, but, first of all, the saying 荷槍實彈 is also used in Mandarin, and it means along the line of "on guard/on high alert" (not necessarily used with 第一次).

I think I'd say something like:  头一次去中国，我的汉语还很蹩脚，到处碰钉子，算是经过了八卦炉的试炼。(an allusion to 西游记)


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## kath_01

Ghabi said:


> 荷槍實彈



Oh my god, thanks for the correction


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## Jerry Chan

Ghabi said:


> Forgive my nitpicking, but, first of all, the saying 荷槍實彈 is also used in Mandarin, and it means along the line of "on guard/on high alert" (not necessarily used with 第一次).
> 
> 算是经过了八卦炉的试炼。(an allusion to 西游记)



Interesting!
Inspired me to think of 十八銅人陣
Movie fans may see what I mean.


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## 我说汉语

Ghabi said:


> I think I'd say something like: 头一次去中国，我的汉语还很蹩脚，到处碰钉子，算是经过了八卦炉的试炼。(an allusion to 西游记)


Perfect!


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## TheUnitedStatesOfEurope

Thank you very much, but the problem is that i don't get the use of 算是 plus, i don't get also 八卦炉. A Hong Konger friend of mine thought this expression weird... he proposed me this instead : 算是经过了一番磨炼 , but i don't know what's better ?


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## kath_01

TheUnitedStatesOfEurope said:


> Thank you very much, but the problem is that i don't get the use of 算是 plus, i don't get also 八卦炉. A Hong Konger friend of mine thought this expression weird... he proposed me this instead : 算是经过了一番磨炼 , but i don't know what's better ?



算是 is like 總算 : it's considered (as) / all things considered

 indeed , 八卦炉 is an unusual metaphor,
only people who are rather familiar with the story of 西游记 would get it.
during normal conversation, it is a bit strange to just throw out a metaphor from 西游记,
as this one is rarely used.
(but then it's a good metaphor for what you asked for ,"baptism of fire",
because in the story, the character got thrown into the 炉"furnace", 
literally got cooked, but he survived, and after such charllenge, 
he got something out of it, a new skill)

磨炼 : [v] to endure ; [n] trial (as in : a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation)
so it's perfectly fine to say  what your friend suggested
算是经过了一番磨炼
or 算是经过了一項艰辛的考验


but back to what you originally asked "it was for me the baptism of fire"
I'd say : (這)對我來說,是一項艰辛的考验 (for me, it was a hard and tough charllenge)

I personally think it's slightly more natural to say it with "艰辛的考验"
than 磨炼 in this example, but it's not wrong.
(probably because 磨炼 may be used as a verb)


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## Geysere

kath_01 said:


> 磨炼 : [v] to endure ; [n] trial (as in : a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation)
> so it's perfectly fine to say what your friend suggested
> 算是经过了一番磨炼
> or 算是经过了一項艰辛的考验
> 
> but back to what you originally asked "it was for me the baptism of fire"
> I'd say : (這)對我來說,是一項艰辛的考验 (for me, it was a hard and tough charllenge)
> 
> I personally think it's slightly more natural to say it with "艰辛的考验"
> than 磨炼 in this example, but it's not wrong.
> (probably because 磨炼 may be used as a verb)


I agree that 磨练 is not as appropriate as 考验 here. 磨练 usually requires one to temper oneself by practicing something for a long period or by challenging a difficult task for numerous times. Here in your example it's more like one big trial, so 考验 is closer.


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## yobma

我说汉语 said:


> Originally Posted by *Ghabi*
> 
> 
> I think I'd say something like: 头一次去中国，我的汉语还很蹩脚，到处碰钉子，算是经过了八卦炉的试炼。(an allusion to 西游记)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect!
Click to expand...

I diden't nor did I heared some one use "八卦炉试炼" in speech. It sounds very foreign chinese that often use old idioms which is not common use in nowadays. If it is said talking with friend, it can bring some kind of humour.


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## huangqiaoying

I think I'd say something like:  头一次去中国，我的汉语还很蹩脚，到处碰钉子，算是经过了八卦炉的试炼。(an allusion to 西游记) 		 		  		  		 		  		  		  		  		 			 			 			    
good translation. domestication


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