# чуть больше понимают в чистоте



## adventrue

*Мне не понятно следующее предложение. Вы можете объя**с**нить?

"В целом москвичи чуть больше понимают в чистоте, чем питерцы.*"


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## WordOrder

_Generally, residents of Moscow are more cleanly then residents of Piter._


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## adventrue

Thank you!

If you permit, I correct your English: "Generally, residents of Moscow are more clean than resident of Piter."


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## Awwal12

A literal translation is "Generally, residents of Moscow know a bit more about matters of cleannes than residents of St.Petersburg." The meaning, however, is equal.


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## floridian002

more clean 
cleaner

Хоть одна еще поправка, только потому-что мне нравиться краски использовать.


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## Andrey05

I'd use *neater* or* tidier* instead.


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## ExMax

Разница между "tidy" и "clean" и "neat" и "tidy" бурно обсуждалась здесь. В любом случае, фразу "Moskovites are neater/tidier..." я бы понял совсем по-другому по сравнению с  "москвичи чуть больше понимают в чистоте, чем питерцы". Вариант "Generally, residents of Moscow know a bit more about matter of cleanness than residents of St.Petersburg" мне лично кажется хорошим вариантом.


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## Andrey05

ExMax said:


> Разница между "tidy" и "clean" и "neat" и "tidy" бурно обсуждалась здесь. В любом случае, фразу "Moskovites are neater/tidier..." я бы понял совсем по-другому по сравнению с "москвичи чуть больше понимают в чистоте, чем питерцы". Вариант "Generally, residents of Moscow know a bit more about matter of cleanness than residents of St.Petersburg" мне лично кажется хорошим вариантом.


 
The links you provided are about clean rooms, not people, in which case all three are synonymous. When applied to people, the difference is more pronounced: clean is primarily "not dirty", and neat or tidy more 'keeping things around him clean', "_marked by good order and cleanliness in appearance or *habits*_" (that's purely from my experience, I encourage native English speakers to confirm or disprove it).

Now about the phrase. I understand '*понимать (толк) в чистоте*', '* знать толк в чистоте*' as being neat / tidy, don't you find? 
The version of 'knowing about cleanliness' seems a bit too literal to me...


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## Awwal12

Andrey05 said:


> The links you provided are about clean rooms, not people, in which case all three are synonymous. When applied to people, the difference is more pronounced: clean is primarily "not dirty", and neat or tidy more 'keeping things around him clean', "_marked by good order and cleanliness in appearance or *habits*_" (that's purely from my experience, I encourage native English speakers to confirm or disprove it).
> 
> Now about the phrase. I understand '*понимать (толк) в чистоте*', '* знать толк в чистоте*' as being neat / tidy, don't you find?
> The version of 'knowing about cleanliness' seems a bit too literal to me...


As you whish, but you should just take into account that the original Russian phrase isn't so direct; otherwise it would be something simple, like "москвичи опрятнее, чем питерцы". The general thought, of course, is the same, but the style (and the literal meaning of the phrase) is different.


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## floridian002

"_marked by good order and cleanliness in appearance or *habits*_" (that's purely from my experience, I encourage native English speakers to confirm or disprove it). "


 That's how I see it as well.

 Could the original Russian also apply towards hygiene, (how I originally interpreted it) or only organizational/neatness habits?

 If it could mean both, then both would apply.  Would you need more context for the Russian? Or is it already clear we are talking about the interior of your car/house/etc...


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## Andrey05

floridian002 said:


> Could the original Russian also apply towards hygiene, (how I originally interpreted it) or only organizational/neatness habits?
> 
> If it could mean both, then both would apply. Would you need more context for the Russian? Or is it already clear we are talking about the interior of your car/house/etc...


 
To me the original phrase combines hygiene and neatness habbits, giving more weight to the latter. The phrase is quite general and universal, literally it reads "to know about / be an expert at cleanliness" which includes keeping _everything_ around you clean and organized.


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## Awwal12

> Could the original Russian also apply towards hygiene, (how I originally interpreted it) or only organizational/neatness habits?


I doubt that it was about the personal hygiene; it's rather about cleanness on staircases, in courtyards etc. )
P.S.: One must know, of course, that ~99% of people in Russian towns and cities live in various apartment buildings, so staircases, courtyards etc. are a public or state property. That may be obvious, but who knows...


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## Andrey05

Awwal12 said:


> As you whish, but you should just take into account that the original Russian phrase isn't so direct; otherwise it would be something simple, like "москвичи опрятнее, чем питерцы". The general thought, of course, is the same, but the style (and the literal meaning of the phrase) is different.


 
I think the English word 'tidy' is broader than the Russian 'опрятный'. Tidy has something from опрятный, чистоплотный, аккуратный and other adjectives of thins kind. 
It is a matter of style indeed, but Floridian002, does the literal translation: ("Moscovites know about the cleanliness") sound natural? If so, do you feel any difference with "Moscovites are tidy"?


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## floridian002

Тогда "neater" более подходит.

Я наверно, делал поспешный вывод, из-за своей лояльности к Москве.

Питерцы, мои грязные друзья , я у вас Прошу прощения.

"but Floridian002, does the literal translation: ("Moscovites know about the cleanliness") sound natural? If so, do you feel any difference with "Moscovites are tidy"? 

No, it doesn't, and the article "the" should be stricken.

"Moscovites are tidy", would have the more narrow meaning indicating that they didn't let trash build up in their apartments, or maybe they vacuumed their cars more often.

Whereas, hearing "Moscovites are clean", I would definitely think about the fact that they take showers on a more routine basis than St. Peterburgians.


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## ExMax

I've just read the original text. The text is a set of separate theses; you cannot find any additional information about the author's idea. I can guess the author thought that  Moskovites appreciate general neatness (clean streets, courtyards, etc., and good personal hygiene as well) more than residents of Petersburg.


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## Awwal12

*ExMax*, все-таки, боюсь, дело не в личной гигене (вряд ли речь о бомжах и алкоголиках Москвы и Питера). Скорее речь о соотношении мусора в подъездах и окурков под окнами в Москве и Петербурге, - как следствия наплевательского отношения к общественной/государственной собственности (неприятное наследие СССР, понемногу все-таки изживающееся).


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