# Palestinian Arabic vs. Jordanian Arabic



## elroy

Split from here.



SarahBeth said:


> You will also hear "eesh" in Jordan, I think(?). I just remember talking to some Lebanese friends and their giggling when I said "eesh fi" instead of "shu fi" and their saying it was Jordanian.


 Yes, that's right. Palestinian and Jordanian Arabic are virtually identical.


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## Abu Bishr

> elroy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's right. Palestinian and Jordanian Arabic are virtually identical.
Click to expand...

 
That is because many Palestinians reside now in Amman-Jordan and enjoy Jordanian citizenship. As for the original Jordanians, I'd say that their dialect is quite different from that of the Palestinians.


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## elroy

Abu Bishr said:
			
		

> That is because many Palestinians reside now in Amman-Jordan and enjoy Jordanian citizenship. As for the original Jordanians, I'd say that their dialect is quite different from that of the Palestinians.


 How different is "quite different"?  Could you give me some concrete examples and/or authoritative sources that back up your claim?


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## MarcB

I have to agree with Elroy here. If we compare the several variants of Palestine with those of Jordan we will certainly see some overlapping including the areas near Iraq and Saudi.


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## Abu Bishr

> elroy said:
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> 
> 
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> How different is "quite different"? Could you give me some concrete examples and/or authoritative sources that back up your claim?
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Good question. Well, all I can say for now is that I myself lived in Amman-Jordan for two years and this is what I observed. I remember speaking to an inhabitant of Karak once and his dialect was like nothing I've heard before. I also remember seeing a three volume work dealing with the expressions and customs of non-Palestinian Jordanians in one of the bookshops there and I was very interested in purchasing it at the time, but unfortunately I didn't. Also, in my dealings with the people I noticed differences but it never crossed my mind to consciously remember them. This is especially the case when you taking a taxi and have a bit of a conversation with the driver. The vast majority of drivers are Palestinians and on one occasion I met a driver whom I considered to be from the Gulf Arabs based on my interpretation of his dialect. Then he told me that he is from the original Jordanians who were primarily dessert Arabs or Bedouins. I'm sorry if I can't give you more information than that. If we had a Jordanian in our forum, he or she would be able to either verify or falsify my claim.

At the same time I have to admit that I'm not a native speaker of Arabic and I suffer from the same deficiencies as all other non-native speakers especially vis-a-vis the Arabic dialectics which are very culture based, and only if you have grown up in that culture would you really be able to understand what they are all about.


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## cherine

I've never been to neither Jordan nor Palestine, but if I'll compare any Arab contry to Egypt -in what concerns dialects- I'd say that it's very natural that people in the same country have different dialects. There is not *one* Egyptian dialect but many. So I guess the same would be the case in any other country, regardless of who's coming from where.


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## MarcB

This part about different variants of Arabic takes us back to topics about dialect. When Abu Bishr spoke of the Pal/Jord differences I immediately thought of Bedawi vs Madeni and Fellahi this is a distinction that exists in almost all countries. In that case I agree that Bedawi is different but Jordan has always had the other two also. Cherine’s mention of Egypt fits here also. So we can find similarities and differences in all variants. So the urban differences are often bigger than the bedawi from country to country. As for Jordan and Palestine they are considered the same variant of Arabic yet there are many differences in each type Urban, Village and Bedouin.
These letters ك,ق,ة, and the consonants are the principal identifiers of the variants. Also accent varies from place to place but is not a factor in making another variant. I will add m quote back here " If we compare the several variants of Palestine with those of Jordan we will certainly see some overlapping including the areas near Iraq and Saudi."


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## Abu Bishr

Incidentally, a close acquaintance of mine heard the kashkasha of the Kaf in Jordan among some of its original inahabitants who were selling fruit at a roadside fruit stall. Normally, the kashkasha of the Kaf is used for the Kaf as pronominal suffix for a female e.g. kitaabuch / kitaabutch for kitaabuki. This is prevelent in the Kuwaiti dialect to the best of my knowledge. Sometimes it's also used for the initial Kaf as in "Chaif Haaluch" instead og (Kaifa Haaluki), etc.

Anyhow, I found the following stats on the Web about languages and dialects spoken in Jordan:

Arabic Levantine Bedawi Spoken (by 700,000 throughout Jordan but esp. in the east)

Arabic South Levantine Spoken (by 3,500,000 in Jordan)

Arabic Najdi Spoken (by 50,000 in far eastern Jordan)

Arabic Standard (official langauge, & used for education, official purposes, communication among Arab-speaking countries)

This is as far as Arabic goes. As for other languages, we have the following:

Adyghe (a type of Russian spoken by 44,280 in Jordan)

Armenian (by 8,000)

Chechen (by 3,000)

Domari (a language of Iran, spoken by 4,913 in Jordan)

Jordanian Sign Language

Would I be promoting a website if I mention the source?

On MarcB's point, I suppose that there are many ways of looking at dialects so much so that it has become a science in itself called Dialectology, and various models and theories have been put forward for the convergendence and divergence of dialects (like the wave-model for example). A search on the web might bring up studies made about Arabic dialects. Having brought up this point, I myself dont think that things need to become so technical and scientific so as to make it impossible for ordinary people (including myself) to discuss. Nevertheless, just point of clarification from MarcB: How has it been decided that the  ك,ق,ة, and the consonants are the principal identifiers of the variants? Is there a source for that? (My question is purely one of wanting to know). For if that is the case, then I suppose it could be adopted as a standard for distinguishing between different dialects, and if not we could try and determine other defining properties of dialects or use others in addition to what you have proposed.


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## MarcB

Abu Bishr said:
			
		

> Incidentally, a close acquaintance of mine heard the kashkasha of the Kaf in Jordan among some of its original inahabitants who were selling fruit at a roadside fruit stall. Normally, the kashkasha of the Kaf is used for the Kaf as pronominal suffix for a female e.g. kitaabuch / kitaabutch for kitaabuki. This is prevelent in the Kuwaiti dialect to the best of my knowledge. Sometimes it's also used for the initial Kaf as in "Chaif Haaluch" instead og (Kaifa Haaluki), etc.Also found in Palestine and several Gulf states





			
				Abu Bishr said:
			
		

> Anyhow, I found the following stats on the Web about languages and dialects spoken in Jordan:
> 
> Arabic Levantine Bedawi Spoken (by 700,000 throughout Jordan but esp. in the east)
> 
> Arabic South Levantine Spoken (by 3,500,000 in Jordan)
> 
> Arabic Najdi Spoken (by 50,000 in far eastern Jordan)
> 
> Arabic Standard (official langauge, & used for education, official purposes, communication among Arab-speaking countries)
> 
> This is as far as Arabic goes. As for other languages, we have the following:
> 
> Adyghe (a type of Russian spoken by 44,280 in Jordan)
> 
> Armenian (by 8,000)
> 
> Chechen (by 3,000)
> 
> Domari (a language of Iran, spoken by 4,913 in Jordan)
> 
> Jordanian Sign Language
> 
> Would I be promoting a website if I mention the source? Not if it is a non-comercial site.
> .
> I agree
> On MarcB's point, I suppose that there are many ways of looking at dialects so much so that it has become a science in itself called Dialectology, and various models and theories have been put forward for the convergendence and divergence of dialects (like the wave-model for example). A search on the web might bring up studies made about Arabic dialects. Having brought up this point, I myself dont think that things need to become so technical and scientific so as to make it impossible for ordinary people (including myself) to discuss. Nevertheless, just point of clarification from MarcB: How has it been decided that the ك,ق,ة, and the vowels (typo by me) are the principal identifiers of the variants? Is there a source for that? (My question is purely one of wanting to know). For if that is the case, then I suppose it could be adopted as a standard for distinguishing between different dialects, and if not we could try and determine other defining properties of dialects or use others in addition to what you have proposed.


The letters are the pronunciation of these variants that we are discussing although this too extends beyond the two countries mentioned. I am sure others can also be mentioned. Vocabulary comes to mind.
We have the start of a good discusssion from a non-scientific point of view.


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## Abu Bishr

> MarcB said:
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> 
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> Not if it is a non-comercial site.
Click to expand...

 
In that case the source is www.ethnologue.com and search for Jordan


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## Abu Rashid

> I immediately thought of Bedawi vs Madeni and Fellahi this is a distinction that exists in almost all countries.




I think this is a good point, also combined with the fact that Jordan was almost completely bedouin until the Palestinians came would tend to suggest that the modern "madani" form of Arabic in Jordan today was probably fully introduced by the Palestinians and didn't really exist before their arrival, as no real urban centres existed prior to their arrival anyway.


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## Taalib

This is off topic of the original subject; but it is also a direct response to a question about differences in dialect in Jordan.

Among the Palestinian dialect spoken in Jordan there exist at least two different strands--the urbanized variant spoken by Palestinians in the metropolitan Amman area, and a less common variant spoken by both Palestinians and Jordanians (e.g., Transjordanians, the descendants of tribes and clans living on the East Bank prior to the arrival of 'Abdullah under the British and later the flow of Palestinians from the West Bank) in the rural areas.

There is, as others have mentioned on this thread, a distinct variety of "East Bank" Arabic spoken primarily among the Bedouin of the south and the east parts of Jordan. Many of the more settled (hadari) Bedouin speak it; one reason it is increasingly sparse is because of the sheer dominance of Palestinian Arabic, helped no doubt by their demographic majority. 

Differences: there are many, some involving pronounciation and others involving more fundamental uses of language, like conjugations. Here is a VERY short list that I remember from several sources--a chat with a linguist, a talk with a Bedouin--that lists how intraditional Transjordanian dialect differs from more dominant Palestinian forms spoken in Amman, parts of the West Bank, much of Lebanon, and parts of Syria. One might have to go to a linguistic book to get to the nitty-gritty details and the many other variations, but these are what an average MSA speaker might pick up when comparing the two.

Traditionally, the rural Bedouin dialect has no "bi" prefix to present tense verbs. In addition, the conjugated form of the verb, not active particle, is used to denote continuous present actions. Hence I understand "afham" not "ana faahim."

There is no additive "sh" added to the end of verbs to denote negation, and particle "maa" is used as primary negator. But "laa" is used in other contexts, especially in the negation of the imperative form.

There is infrequent (if at all) use of the "taba'a + attached pronoun" independent particle to denote possession. 

Instead of "shuu" as interrogative particle meaning "what?" the term "aesh" is used. 

Interrogative "shlon" is used stead of "kif" to mean "how?" 

Interrogative "when?" is not "imta" but the more classical form "mata". 

Adjective "katiir" is used tremendously in Palestinian forms to denote any kind of increasing or intensifying quality of an action; but more classical "jiddan" is used among the Bedouin. 

The "qaaf" sound is not elided into hamza, but is pronounced a "g", kind of like Egyptian "g" for "jeem." Hence he says is not "bi-'ul" but "yigul" (note also the lack of "bi" and the elision of "ya" into "yi" in front of the first vowel root).


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## MarcB

Taalib, very interesting. the bi is used for future among badu see Ayed's post : 
qaf =g is common among all badu and in rural areas from Morocco to Iraq. Shlon (color)for how, is also used in Syria,Iraq and the Gulf (also relative to your post about Kuwait) The yi pronunciation is found in many places. katir(kathir) and jiddan are found in many places.Your explanation is a good example of general badawi and Gulf Arabic.Many of those features are found through out Africa as well. Mata is common in the Gulf see


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## Taalib

The similarities to Gulf Arabic make complete sense.  Before the early 1920s, the Saudi Najd region extended well into the southern part of today's modern Jordan, where many of the Bedouin tribes lived.  

It is, however, a fading dialect.  The urban Palestinian dialect is spoken by far more people than the original Bedouin variant.  And in any case, everyone seems to speak English as a second language anyway


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## ihsaan

Hi!
I have been wondering about this for some time; If you move to Jordan, say for example Amman, will the local dialect you learn be the Palestinian influenced one?

I have heard that many say that the Jordanian dialect is one of the closest dialects to the fus7a. Is this true? And is this referring to the "original" Jordanian dialect, or the more Palestinian influenced dialect?

I wasn't sure if I were to make a new thread about this, but I felt my question fitted under this topic.

Also: this is sort of besides the topic - but does anyone know of any books or similar material teaching the actual Jordanian dialect? I have seen courses teaching other similar dialects, but not the Jordanian one. (I have already checked out the links given in this forum concerning various dialects.


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## MarcB

Ihsaan,
See  Arabic Resources | موارد للغة العربية


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## ihsaan

Thank you MarcB.. I previously went to the jordanianarabic(dot)com site listed on that link-site, but it seemed to me that the words there were MSA, and not Jordanian... I might be wrong of course, as I am still a beginner in Arabic.


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## Nikola

ihsaan said:


> Thank you MarcB.. I previously went to the jordanianarabic(dot)com site listed on that link-site, but it seemed to me that the words there were MSA, and not Jordanian... I might be wrong of course, as I am still a beginner in Arabic.


5g,7c,9a,9j are similar to Jordanian


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