# טעם vs. סיבה



## sawyeric1

They both mean "reason". So what differences are there in meaning, usage, and / or register (besides that טעם can also mean "taste")?

Thanks


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## slus

I can't think of any meaningful difference between the two, other than טעם is followed by ב and סיבה by ל
מה הטעם ב...
מה הסיבה ל...


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## aavichai

but טעם is more as "what's the point doing that"
what its importance or what the use of doing that

and the סיבה is what is the reason


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## Sprachenlerner

I agree with aavichai, "טעם" is more in the sense of "point", while "סיבה" literally means reason. 

Examples:
"אין טעם" There's no point

"מה הטעם? " What's the point? (i.e why are you/we/etc doing whatever we're doing?) 

But not "point" in the sense of crux. 

You wouldn't use טעם in a sentence like "My point is that..." i.e a point of an argument.


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## Ali Smith

slus said:


> I can't think of any meaningful difference between the two, other than טעם is followed by ב and סיבה by ל



But what about the following sentence?

אין טעם לצעוק כי הוא לא ישמע.‎‎
There is no point shouting because he won’t hear.


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## slus

True, but you can also say
אין טעם בצעקות כי הוא לא ישמע
And
אין סיבה לצעוק כי הוא לא ישמע


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## JAN SHAR

One other difference is that taam originally meant reason (see Proverbs 26:16), and this meaning has survived. But sibah originally meant turn of events or turn of affairs or providence, as in 1 Kings 12:15. I don't know if this meaning still exists in the modern language.


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## Abaye

JAN SHAR said:


> One other difference is that taam originally meant reason (see Proverbs 26:16), and this meaning has survived.


This is not supported by Brown-Driver-Briggs and Strong's. What's your source?


> Ta'am: advice, behavior, decree, discretion, judgment, reason, taste, understanding. *From ta'am; properly, a taste*, i.e. (figuratively) perception; by implication, intelligence; transitively, a mandate -- advice, behaviour, decree, discretion, judgment, reason, taste, understanding.


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## Ali Smith

טַעַם originally meant 'taste'.

שָׁ֩טוּ֩ הָעָ֨ם וְלָֽקְט֜וּ וְטָחֲנ֣וּ בָרֵחַ֗יִם א֤וֹ דָכוּ֙ בַּמְּדֹכָ֔ה וּבִשְּׁלוּ֙ בַּפָּר֔וּר וְעָשׂ֥וּ אֹת֖וֹ עֻג֑וֹת וְהָיָ֣ה טַעְמ֔וֹ כְּטַ֖עַם לְשַׁ֥ד הַשָּֽׁמֶן׃
(במדבר יא ח)

The corresponding verb from qal meant 'to taste' or 'to eat'.

וְאִֽישׁ־יִשְׂרָאֵ֥ל נִגַּ֖שׂ בַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֑וּא וַיֹּ֩אֶל֩ שָׁא֨וּל אֶת־הָעָ֜ם לֵאמֹ֗ר אָר֣וּר הָ֠אִ֠ישׁ אֲשֶׁר־יֹ֨אכַל לֶ֜חֶם עַד־הָעֶ֗רֶב וְנִקַּמְתִּי֙ מֵאֹ֣יְבַ֔י וְלֹא־טָעַ֥ם כׇּל־הָעָ֖ם לָֽחֶם׃
(שמואל א יד כד)


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## Ali Smith

JAN SHAR said:


> One other difference is that taam originally meant reason (see Proverbs 26:16), and this meaning has survived. But sibah originally meant turn of events or turn of affairs or providence, as in 1 Kings 12:15. I don't know if this meaning still exists in the modern language.


I don't think so.

וְלֹא־שָׁמַ֥ע הַמֶּ֖לֶךְ אֶל־הָעָ֑ם כִּֽי־הָיְתָ֤ה סִבָּה֙ מֵעִ֣ם יְהֹוָ֔ה לְמַ֜עַן הָקִ֣ים אֶת־דְּבָר֗וֹ אֲשֶׁ֨ר דִּבֶּ֤ר יְהֹוָה֙ בְּיַד֙ אֲחִיָּ֣ה הַשִּֽׁילֹנִ֔י אֶל־יָרׇבְעָ֖ם בֶּן־נְבָֽט׃
(מלכים א יב טו)

And the king did not listen to the people because there was a circuitous manner/way from Y----- in order to establish His word, which Y----- had spoken through Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam, son of Nebat.

סִבָּה meant 'circuitous manner/way' in classical Hebrew.


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