# Black/White racism in the USA and the rest of the world.



## SweetMommaSue

Hello Forum,
One topic that my husband and I feel the direct effects of in our everday lives is that of black/white racism.  He is predominantly black with some type of American Indian and some white thrown in there, and I am mostly white with some gypsy thrown in.  
I will give a couple of examples of what we have experienced, and I was wondering if some non-Americans could enlighten me on whether the same type of nonsense occurs in their countries, too.
In one instance, my husband was shopping around for a contractor to construct an outside deck for our home.  He brought the first one by to look our property over and give an estimate for the job. After a week of my husbands' calls not being answered  , my husband found another contractor.  This man, no sooner saw me, than he immediately sputtered, "Nope! No can do. . . I have too many jobs already waiting! Bye!" And he left as if his pants were on fire.   Then my very patient husband found a third contractor who was surveying our home and property and discussing all the details, until, once again, he saw me, with our first baby on my hip. I was coming out with a pitcher of ice water and glasses since the day was so muggy, and the men were sweating profusely. I thought the refreshment would be welcomed. . . instead, all the man could do was stand and stare at me, then my husband, then our baby. Then, without a word, he just left.  Hmmmmmm. . . seems a pattern is developing. . .the first contractor had also left after my husband introduced me as his wife, but he at least finished the conversation he was having. 
The other situation happens quite frequently, too: going to the supermarket or whatever store and being stared down by people who "don't approve" of interracial marriages, and quite often mumbling slurs and comments just loud enough for us to hear.(sigh)
I personally think it incredibly sad that some people can be so narrow-minded. 
The way I see it, our Lord created this world in colors. EVERYTHING has color or multiple colors: the land/vegetation/waters/insects/animals. . . PEOPLE. I believe that colors make this world beautiful and that includes people of different colors. I wonder why some people have to harbor such resentments and act them out so maliciously when we are both human beings, married nearly 11 years now, and very much in love with and respectful of each other. It's not like a snake is married to a dog--prepostorous idea, eh? Well, so is the prejudice we experience sometimes.
I look forward to many responses!   

Sweet Momma Sue

P.S. Responses from fellow Americans are also appreciated! I specified non-Americans initially because I am very curious about how people from other countries feel about this situation.


----------



## modgirl

There is absolutely no doubt that a lot of racism still exists in the US.  However, since there seemed to be no references or direct remarks about race, are you certain that these people were reacting to the fact that you have a mixed race relationship?  Could there be any other factors to which people may have been reacting?  Some examples might be tattoos, piercings, obesity, provocative dress, shaved head on a woman, and so forth.  Sometimes people mistake other types of prejudices for racial ones.  What, specifically, makes you think the people were responding to race -- exclusion of other possible factors?


----------



## SweetMommaSue

You are quite right that oftentimes other types of prejudices are mistaken for racial ones. I kept the example as succinct as I could. I tend to be a bit wordy. There is no mistaking comments that are specific and pointed. There was also a bit more to the situations with the contractors, I just don't like repeating pejorative comments and such. Viewing the situation as stated (hypothetically if it makes it easier), I was merely interested in knowing if similar situations go on in other countries?


----------



## modgirl

It's been my experience (and perhaps others will have different experiences) that racism is not only alive and well but often stronger in the rest of the world.  I'm a white woman and I've been out in both western and eastern Europe with black male and female colleagues who have had restaurant and club doors literally shut in their faces!


----------



## asm

I do not quite understand your stories. I understand you are white and he is black. You have experience somthing like this: a person is dealing with your husband with no problem, but when that person learns that his wife is white, then the people flees. So the issue more than prejudice on him (or you) is on the fact that you are married coming from different ethnicities. Am I right?

If that's the case I do not know what to say. I have been in KY for almost 4 years and I see very few cases like yours, so my experience is not enough to have a clear picture.

I will tell you, however, what a friend of mine experienced in Mexico. He came from a high-level class, wanted to be a priest and had some experiences with poor people. When he decided to leave the priesthood he went to a poor neighborhood. To make the story short, he married a girl who was poor and with indian blood. But his own family was so upset that his father didnot want to go to the wedding (in my memory recollections I perceive like he agreed to go, but with a big face (jeta in Mexican Spanish).
It was a BIG deal for the family. 
Some people say we in Mexico do not have racism, but that is not true, we indeed have it. The indian is relegated and perceived as an inferior class. To me this is a double national shame: one for the fact we do it, and the second, because we deny we do it, criticizing Americans for the discrimination of African Americans.
Since we do not have black people in Mexico we think we do not have racism, but when it comes to the indian, nobody says anything (well, not NOBODY, but many people look at them down)







			
				SweetMommaSue said:
			
		

> Hello Forum,
> One topic that my husband and I feel the direct effects of in our everday lives is that of black/white racism. He is predominantly black with some type of American Indian and some white thrown in there, and I am mostly white with some gypsy thrown in.
> I will give a couple of examples of what we have experienced, and I was wondering if some non-Americans could enlighten me on whether the same type of nonsense occurs in their countries, too.
> In one instance, my husband was shopping around for a contractor to construct an outside deck for our home.  He brought the first one by to look our property over and give an estimate for the job. After a week of my husbands' calls not being answered  , my husband found another contractor. This man, no sooner saw me, than he immediately sputtered, "Nope! No can do. . . I have too many jobs already waiting! Bye!" And he left as if his pants were on fire.  Then my very patient husband found a third contractor who was surveying our home and property and discussing all the details, until, once again, he saw me, with our first baby on my hip. I was coming out with a pitcher of ice water and glasses since the day was so muggy, and the men were sweating profusely. I thought the refreshment would be welcomed. . . instead, all the man could do was stand and stare at me, then my husband, then our baby. Then, without a word, he just left.  Hmmmmmm. . . seems a pattern is developing. . .the first contractor had also left after my husband introduced me as his wife, but he at least finished the conversation he was having.
> The other situation happens quite frequently, too: going to the supermarket or whatever store and being stared down by people who "don't approve" of interracial marriages, and quite often mumbling slurs and comments just loud enough for us to hear.(sigh)
> I personally think it incredibly sad that some people can be so narrow-minded.
> The way I see it, our Lord created this world in colors. EVERYTHING has color or multiple colors: the land/vegetation/waters/insects/animals. . . PEOPLE. I believe that colors make this world beautiful and that includes people of different colors. I wonder why some people have to harbor such resentments and act them out so maliciously when we are both human beings, married nearly 11 years now, and very much in love with and respectful of each other. It's not like a snake is married to a dog--prepostorous idea, eh? Well, so is the prejudice we experience sometimes.
> I look forward to many responses!
> 
> Sweet Momma Sue
> 
> P.S. Responses from fellow Americans are also appreciated! I specified non-Americans initially because I am very curious about how people from other countries feel about this situation.


----------



## SweetMommaSue

asm said:
			
		

> I do not quite understand your stories. I understand you are white and he is black. You have experience somthing like this: a person is dealing with your husband with no problem, but when that person learns that his wife is white, then the people flee. So the issue more than prejudice on him (or you) is on the fact that you are married coming from different ethnicities. Am I right?
> 
> *Yes, this is exactly the point. Some folks say they do not have a racist problem when it comes to interacting with people of different races, until it comes to dealing with interracial couples, esp. with children.*
> 
> If that's the case I do not know what to say. I have been in KY for almost 4 years and I see very few cases like yours, so my experience is not enough to have a clear picture.
> 
> *Some Northerners often try to say that Southerners (in the USA) are "more" racist than they or that racism is more prevalent in the South.  I have not found that to be the case. I find in the middle Atlantic states is where the problem seems to be most noticeable. I haven't noticed any difference in treatment towards us in the New England states. But VA, MD, DE, NJ and PA-phew  . . . we have had some downright silly reactions! *
> 
> I will tell you, however, what a friend of mine experienced in Mexico. We came from a high-level class, wanted to be a priest and had some experiences with poor people. When he decided to leave the priesthood he went to a poor neighborhood. To make the story short, he married a girl who was poor and with indian blood. But his own family was so upset that his father didnot want to go to the wedding (in my memory recollections I perceive like he agreed to go, but with a big face (jeta in Mexican Spanish).
> It was a BIG deal for the family.
> Some people say we in Mexico do not have racism, but that is not true, we indeed have it. The indian is relegated and perceived as an inferior class. To me this is a double national shame: one for the fact we do it, and the second, because we deny we do it, criticizing Americans for the discrimination of African Americans.
> Since we do not have black people in Mexico we think we do not have racism, but when it comes to the indian, nobody says anything (well, not NOBODY, but many people look *down on *them.)
> 
> *There are no black people in Mexico at all? What about in the universities, and so in DF and other cities? *
> 
> *That is indeed sad, but very parallel to us, about the situation with your native Indians. *


 
*Are there any other foreros in other countries who can give some examples from their homelands?*

*Thank you, ASM,*
*Sweet Momma*


----------



## Merlin

SweetMommaSue said:
			
		

> *Are there any other foreros in other countries who can give some examples from their homelands?*
> 
> *Thank you, ASM,*
> *Sweet Momma*


Here in the Philippines we also have racism. It started when Spanish colonizers came to the Philippines. If you have a white complexion, you can get along and befriend Spanish families. However, if you have a tan or black complexion, you are considered to be a slave. A helper and a server. Sometimes you are sold to other people like animals. You have to do what your masters want you to do. You are not allowed to talk, mingle and marry people with white complexion. Skin color is a great devider.
Up to this day, we still have some incident of racism. Mostly black ones. They're often laugh at and descriminated. Like they don't have the right to hold offices like in the government, companies and the right to have thier own business. 
Nowadays, that notion had already changed. Most people now are openminded. Companies started to hire employees regardless of thier color. We can't really judge a person based on his/her color. God created us equal. (Maybe not by complexion) I don't see people by thier complexion. I prefer what's inside.
I'm just wondering what are they afraid of? (Narrow-minded people in this case)


----------



## timebomb

In Singapore where we are mutli-racial, multi-religious, multi-cultural and multi-everything, the different races live in harmony.  We had racial riots once, back in the early sixties when Malays fought Chinese.  Many people died then but I think our nation learnt a valuable lesson from that bad experience.  

Government policies here are such every race is encouraged to excel.  There's no discrimation against race and people are rewarded solely on merit.  The government also ensures all races are fairly represented in parliament by creating group constituencies.  Any political party that wants to contest in such constituencies must have, in its team of 4, candidates from different races.  But then again, many here claim that such constituencies were created by the ruling party to make life difficult for their political rivals.  

Singapore is predominantly Chinese.  Malays and Indians make up about 40% of the population with the others being mostly Eurasians.  English is the official language here but Malay is considered the National language.  Most Singaporeans are bilingual; many are tri-lingual.  

The government discourages enclaves and through various housing policies, the races are encouraged to assimilate with each other.  Everything is done to ensure all are given equal opportunity and even public holidays are such each race gets equal numbers of them.  

That's the good news, SweetMommaSue.  Now for the bad   

Despite such policies, mixed marriages here are rare.  The various races get along well but few inter-marry.  Why, you asked?  I'm not sure but it could be that religious differences are even harder to surmount that racial differences. Almost all Malays are Muslims but few Chinese are.  I know of a couple where the wife is Malay and the husband Chinese.  I don't know them well enough to know if they face racism in their daily lives but even if they do, I'm quite sure it's pretty mild.  I'm quite sure no contractor will ever walk out on them just because theirs is a mixed marriage.  People may gossip and say derogatory things about them behind their backs but no one would be so blatant as to shut doors on their faces or pass unfavourable comments without their earshot.  

If you ask me, I think it will always be hard when your spouse is of a different race.  Many problems we face in this world can be traced to the fact we see ourselves as being different from others, be it race, religion or nationality.  If only we can see ourselves as one, that deep inside, we are no different from one another.  If only we can see ourselves as earthlings and not black, white or brown people.


----------



## Cristmarsal

In Spain it is as well. We have racial problems with, at least, East Europeans, Southamericans, gipsys, Northafricans (and southafricans), and basically, with all other wich is diferent, specially when we talk about couples... Sad to say, and even more sad is to admit it happens in my own country!

I think people is just afraid. Afraid about every single thing they don´t know. Is "better" be afraid than knowledge...


----------



## Reili

Almost all kinds of animals "discriminate" others the same kind in order to keep enough resources to survive...maybe discrimination is part of our nature...


----------



## Phryne

Reili said:
			
		

> Almost all kinds of animals "discriminate" others the same kind in order to keep enough resources to survive...maybe discrimination is part of our nature...


 You're d... right that discrimination is about resources. 


			
				asm said:
			
		

> I will tell you, however, what a friend of mine experienced in Mexico. We came from a high-level class, wanted to be a priest and had some experiences with poor people. When he decided to leave the priesthood he went to a poor neighborhood. To make the story short, he married a girl who was poor and with indian blood. But his own family was so upset that his father didnot want to go to the wedding (in my memory recollections I perceive like he agreed to go, but with a big face (jeta in Mexican Spanish).
> It was a BIG deal for the family.
> Some people say we in Mexico do not have racism, but that is not true, we indeed have it. The indian is relegated and perceived as an inferior class. To me this is a double national shame: one for the fact we do it, and the second, because we deny we do it, criticizing Americans for the discrimination of African Americans.
> Since we do not have black people in Mexico we think we do not have racism, but when it comes to the indian, nobody says anything (well, not NOBODY, but many people look at them down)



Hi SweetMommaSue!

My experience in Argentina is similar to what asm shared. Many people say that there's no discrimination based on the fact that there are no blacks. The very few that lived in the country during colonial times left and a teeny tiny percentage of them mingled so much you can't even tell. The other difference with the U.S. is that there's no hyphenation, or boxes to check your race. The government doesn't require that you identify your biological origin, ethnicity, etc. Most people define themselves as Argentines regardless of where their families came from. Nevertheless, there's a lot of stigma against mestizos and even worse against aborigines. Extremely often, there are reported cases where somebody is not allowed into a club, bar, because of the color of their skin. Many other times it’ happens because they are not dressed "appropriately". By that I mean that they are not wearing expensive or branded clothes even though they might had been clothed according to the dress code. Like you said, it’s very hard to say why they were rejected. Was it because they are dark, or because they are poor? Either case, in general terms, most of middle and higher social classes are of people from European descents and most people in lower classes are mestizos. Aborigines are definitely the most segregated people in my country, no doubt about it. 

I almost forgot this. There’s intolerance against Jews, whether they are orthodox or not. [Argentina has the third largest community of Jews in the world, after the US and Israel]. Although I don’t share this viewpoint, I understand that people feel animosity against orthodox Jews since they segregate themselves from the rest of the population. However, non-orthodox, which might be the vast majority, don’t do that. Just the idea that people may add to somebody’s name "… and s/he is Jewish”, or the fact that people may ask, is a sign of prejudice IMHO. 

But, anyhow, I was pretty much in shock when I came to the US for the first time. I have a friend who produces a hip-hop magazine and invited a friend of mine and me to a hip-hop private party. My two friends and I were only three non-blacks in the place.  I know it shouldn't have not come as a surprise, but it did. Hollywood tries hard to sell to the rest of the world that this country is not discriminatory. Not that I believe Hollywood, but I never thought it was so pronounced.

Saludos


----------



## Isotta

I grew up in the expatriot community in Hong Kong. Within the international community, interracial marriages were highly common. What would have been viewed as an unusual marriage cultural or ethnic combination was common in the international community, such as Thai and Hawaiian, Chinese and Fillipino, French and Vietnamese, and of course black and white, though far less common in Hong Kong. 

Children from these marriages never seemed to encounter problems and appeared to benefit from being bi(+)lingual and from having multiple cultural understandings. Moreover children from these marriages tended to be more attractive on the whole--this was held as truth in the international community--and a great many were models. One of my friends was half Chinese and half white American, and when she became a successful model and singer in Hong Kong, she had fans on both sides.

Tension rooted in historical events and in culture clash existed in Hong Kong between different ethnic groups, but unlike the events SweetMammaSue desctibed, people were not fazed by others' appearances.

Isotta.


----------



## ayed

Hi SweetMommaSue

There are many sorts of racial discriminations one of which is the most dangerous that corners the two clashing parties to an unstable condition .It is "the race riot" which is happening now between two races in Sudan. They are killing and fighting each other , committing arson and robbery . 

The prophet Muhammad was against any type or even spectrums of discriminations .Thus, we follow him .Let me take you back to some incidents took place in the beginning of Islam .

The prophet Muhammad(PBUH)said:" People are as equal as comb teeth. Arabic has no favor over non-Arabic except by peity(Allah-fearingness) 

In the Farewell Sermon, the prophet Muhammad(PBUH)stated saying :" Neither Arabic has favor over non-Arabic , nor non-Arabic has favor over Arabic , nor red has favor over white nor white has favor over red except by piety(Allah-fearingness) 

In the presence of the prophet Muhammad(PBUH), a companion of the prophet called Abu Tharr al-Ghifari quarreled with a Negro man.Abu-Tharr called that black man sayaing:"O! son of the black woman". 
No sooner had the prophet Muhammad heard Abu-Tharr then he got very angry and addressed him :" The white woman's son has no favor over the black woman's except by piety(Allah's fearingness)or good deeds" 

Once, a companion of the prophet Muhammad(PBUH) experienced an hour of anger and scoffed at the prophet's prayer caller Bilal bin Rabah(May Allah be pleased with him)saying :" O! son of the black woman" .The prophet Muhammad said:" So-and-so, you are a man of pre-Islam"

Is my country an angelic society? My answer is in a big NO, of course. There is a spectrum of discrimination occurs between young guys .Sometimes , one white may call black :"Hay! Mole" meaning that he is as a mole on a white face. Sometimes when one stupidly answer or even pose such a question the hearer may scoff at him by saying that is from that village or those territories. Rest assure that any society is no innocent or even void of any spectrum of racial discriminations .You do favoritism when one assigns a relative of his own on a high position or promotes him in the expenses of others.By the way, I call this sort of descrimination "Raciofavortism" 

Once, one called me :'Hay! Nomad! . Of course , I grew up in the desert and proud of being so.I frankly do not care , though. 

Written in a hurry poor English
Accept my wishes 
Ayed


----------



## asm

I want to add to my previous post that the prejudice and "racism" among Mexicans is more related to poverty than it is to "race"; however, poverty and "skin color" are very (VERY) related.

What I said about my friend was one case; I cannot determine cultural traits in a population as big as Mexico with only one case. Marriage between those groups is rare and uncommon, but they indeed exist.



A popular Mexican writer (Carlos Monsivais) wrote few weeks ago, related to an issue between Mexico and the US that Mexico does not practice racism (the way America does with the black population at least), but I disagree. In my opinion our racisms is twofold, the way we discriminate poor people (and Indians) and the way we deny the fact (BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE IN MEXICO). Double standards. certainly. 

SweetMommaSue
 


As far as I remember we do not have a black population in Mexico (as a group). I think that some areas ( “coasts” ) have people who are dark, but I do not know if that is by race. I recognize my lack of knowledge on the matter. 

In Mexico City, we do not have them. The only black person I ever met was a Canadian friend’s girlfriend (I saw her only once). There are some artist in the TV and show business (no more than 5), you do not see them in the street.










			
				asm said:
			
		

> I do not quite understand your stories. I understand you are white and he is black. You have experience somthing like this: a person is dealing with your husband with no problem, but when that person learns that his wife is white, then the people flees. So the issue more than prejudice on him (or you) is on the fact that you are married coming from different ethnicities. Am I right?
> 
> If that's the case I do not know what to say. I have been in KY for almost 4 years and I see very few cases like yours, so my experience is not enough to have a clear picture.
> 
> I will tell you, however, what a friend of mine experienced in Mexico. He came from a high-level class, wanted to be a priest and had some experiences with poor people. When he decided to leave the priesthood he went to a poor neighborhood. To make the story short, he married a girl who was poor and with indian blood. But his own family was so upset that his father didnot want to go to the wedding (in my memory recollections I perceive like he agreed to go, but with a big face (jeta in Mexican Spanish).
> It was a BIG deal for the family.
> Some people say we in Mexico do not have racism, but that is not true, we indeed have it. The indian is relegated and perceived as an inferior class. To me this is a double national shame: one for the fact we do it, and the second, because we deny we do it, criticizing Americans for the discrimination of African Americans.
> Since we do not have black people in Mexico we think we do not have racism, but when it comes to the indian, nobody says anything (well, not NOBODY, but many people look at them down)


----------



## marygg

I think that in Mexico we don't have racism, we have classism... because here we discriminate the poor people"however, poverty and "skin color" are very (VERY) related." I'm not agree in this because I'm brown, I'm a mid class person and also I know white people that are poor. Indians are discriminate because they don't have money, if they do, they will be treat with respect, I disagree in this point, I know that it is wrong, but here everything is about money...
In some pubs you need to have money or at least to be beautiful in order to enter... I hate this places because you are there like "choose me" choose me, please.... hahaha

I'm pride because I'm descendant from indians, spanish and black people


----------



## astronauta

I think this will all end the day that the pople who are descriminated against stop wanting to be like the people who descriminate against them because that the power that's given to the ones who discriminate with the exception of Swet momma's case, which I think is contractor's sheer ignorance.

For example, why go to the clubs where one is treated disrespectfully?


----------



## chica11

I am from California and I see lots of interracial couples now where I live and everybody seems to be fine with it.  Then again I live on the west side of Los Angeles and tend to hang around predominantly liberal areas so that's probably why.  I am sure there are plenty parts of California that would not be happy with interracial coupling. Sadly when it comes to interracial coupling it seems that there are people in every race no matter what who oppose it.  I of course think those people are ridiculous.  If two people want to be married regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity etc, then why not?? They should be married and be able to live happy lives.  To me racism really won't end unless we all come together as one. After all race is really a sociological concept not a biological one.  Is what created to make people think it was a biological one but in reality there is only one race in terms of homo sapiens and it is the human race.  Los Angeles used to have a lot of defacto racism but it seems to be slowly changing with the new generations, including mine.  I can tell you that when I lived in Costa Rica,  I some "white" Costa Ricans tell me not to go and spend time on the Caribbean side of the cost (where there are many black people, originally from Jamaica) because it would be really dangerous.  They told me I would be robbed and raped etc etc.  Well of course I didn't listen to them and I went to the caribbean side with my friends to visit the beaches and the forests many times. GUESS WHAT??? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING bad happened to me.  Everyone over there was really nice and I had lots of fun.  Yes bad things do happen there but bad things happen in the primarily "White" populated pueblos and cities.


----------



## astronauta

To add to my last post...

Once I went to the only resto-bar in Mustique, an rich Island in the Caribbean. The people who arrived for dinner, were very rich home-owners and few sailboaters (a scruffy crowd)  it costed something like 80$US p/p for the dinner, afterwards, a steel-drum band arrived, and the rich ones left to leave room for all the servants to dance, have a good time and enjoy the little off-time they had.

If I had known that, I would have never had dinner there, it was boring, stuffy, expensive and not fun at all. I don't think I want to be part of that world.


----------



## f_zadi

In Algeria, I would say not so much based on skin color. What is considered black over there is different from the States. For instance Will Smith looks like he could be Algerian to me. I'm lighter than him, but was surprised to when some Americans thought I was little black looking.(There is a picture of my on my blog, in my kimchi recipe post) I guess it's matter of different categories. Some people think I look Brazilian.

In France I'd say there is more racisim against North Africans (the largest group be Algerians) than there is against black Africans. I think part of it has to do with the fact that Algerians resist assimilation. We are viewed as being stubborn to absorbing French culture. We don't take French names, we keep our Arab (muslim) or Berber names. French sociologists considered a huge leap forward when Zinadine Zidane (possibly the  most famous Algerian, next to Cheb Khaled) was voted "Favorite Frenchman of all time" quite a shock to conservatives. Zidane has always publically maintained his pride in his Algerian heritage (considered un-French by some).

On the other hand, Issabelle Adjani who is half-Algerian and very out-spoken against racism was targeted by a conservative group in France who circulated rumours that she had died. Silly stuff.

As far as America is considered, I have not felt direct racism. I think (know) that it has to do with my French accent. I'm not percieved as being "Arab" because of it. I'm not perceived as being entirely French because of my darker looks.

A white French friend of mine was almost attacked in a store by the customers after it the French announced it would not support the war. I've never had an experience like this, he's had two. 

It seems allover the world people find creative ways of coming up with new "us" vs "them" conflicts. 

Even though we are in LA, we don't think regular schools are appropriate for our children. We send them to a French school that has a large international student body.
It's not uncommon for some of these children to speak three languages and my daughter takes couscous and Korean food for lunch with no teasing at all.


----------



## JazzByChas

SweetMommaSue said:
			
		

> Hello Forum,
> I personally think it incredibly sad that some people can be so narrow-minded.
> The way I see it, our Lord created this world in colors. EVERYTHING has color or multiple colors: the land/vegetation/waters/insects/animals. . . PEOPLE. I believe that colors make this world beautiful and that includes people of different colors. I wonder why some people have to harbor such resentments and act them out so maliciously when we are both human beings, married nearly 11 years now, and very much in love with and respectful of each other. It's not like a snake is married to a dog--prepostorous idea, eh? Well, so is the prejudice we experience sometimes.


 
I agree, SweetMammaSue...I am a mixed person myself (Euro/Native American/Black Portuguese), and my wife is Euro-American <to use a politically-correct term...>  We have noticed (particulary in West Virginia and South Carolina) people staring at us because we were a mixed couple.  I think that there are people in this country, and in the world who think that "the purity of the races" must be preserved.  This is, of course, a very jingoistic point of view.  Even Japan, although welcoming tourists, and immigrants, frown upon mixing of Japanese with "gai-jing" (foreigners).  I also see that for radical religious groups, marrying an "infidel" (someone outside of their race/culture/relgion) is also very frowned upon.  Well, religious fanatics, especially the militaristic ones, will have a harder time changing, because it is an deeply ingrained religious belief.

I guess it is ironic, that, in this day and age, with people from all over the worlld living in many countries other than their native country, that racism and antagonism towards mixed race couples would still be around.  Unfortunatley, it is, and this is to the detriment of the whole human race.

As I said in another post, "variety is the spice of life..."  If everybody in this world looked the same and had the same cultures, this world would be a very boring place.

Vive la difference!

Jazz


----------



## SweetMommaSue

Wow!  Thank you all for participating in this discussion!  It has opened my eyes a bit and given me glimpses into some other cultures.  While I find it very sad that there are so many people still caught in the "dark ages" with narrow minds, I also find it encouraging to see that there is some headway being made in conquering such devisiveness. 

I must add that, on the whole, my husband and I lead quite a pleasant life together with our 3 sons.  It is actually pretty rare when he and I have encountered such problems.  It is troublesome that it occurs at all, though, and it really catches me offguard when it does happen.  Neither he nor I get worked up over it, though--in front of the offenders.  We do discuss the situations in private.  We are teaching our sons to be calm and level-headed, as well.  

Indeed, Jazz, "Variety is the spice of life. . ."  I couldn't agree more!

So, here's to variety in all its many wondrous forms!

Thank you, everyone, once again, for sharing!

Sweet Momma Sue


----------



## swift_precision

astronauta vegetariana said:
			
		

> I think this will all end the day that the pople who are descriminated against stop wanting to be like the people who descriminate against them because that the power that's given to the ones who discriminate with the exception of Swet momma's case, which I think is contractor's sheer ignorance.
> 
> For example, why go to the clubs where one is treated disrespectfully?


 
A person may want to go to a particular club because perhaps it is more appealing than other clubs.  I am not saying this is particulary the most intelligent thing to do but merely providing an answer to your question.


----------



## JazzByChas

astronauta said:
			
		

> I think this will all end the day that the pople who are descriminated against stop wanting to be like the people who descriminate against them because [of] the power that's given to the ones who discriminate with the exception of Sweet momma's case, which I think is contractor's sheer ignorance.
> 
> For example, why go to the clubs where one is treated disrespectfully?


 
Actually, this is a good point.  Except for the issue of speaking proper English (see this thread on Ebonics) there is no reason to want to act like those who discriminate against you.  Most of the time, those who discriminate against you have nothing to offer you of any value anyway.

And futher, these days, children grow up exposed to all sorts of different culture and peoples, so it (hopefully) is getting harder to be discriminatory.  Maybe one day... 

Chas.


----------



## JazzByChas

Brioche said:
			
		

> I find the contractors' actions very odd.
> 
> The only reason that I can see for a business to refuse work is if they worry about the householder not having enough money to pay for the work.


 
Yes, Brioche, but racism transcends reason or common sense.  It is a visceral, learned reaction to a situation that is based solely upon constantly being fed misinformation from an early age.


----------



## SweetMommaSue

JazzByChas said:
			
		

> Yes, Brioche, but racism transcends reason or common sense. It is a visceral, learned reaction to a situation that is based solely upon constantly being fed misinformation from an early age.


I sooooo agree with you, Chas!  And I completely understand your confusion, Brioche.  This type of hateful behavior defies reason.  It's simply narrow-minded, bigoted, devisive and downright mean and shameful.  But, it does happen out there.  

We haven't tried recently to use any contractors.  We're actually thinking about putting up a deck, say in about 5 years.  I wonder what the atmosphere will be like then??  Hopefully, we won't encounter the same problems!

I just keep praying that one day, people will all look at each other as people and that we can leave the hard, bitter feelings behind.


----------



## Swettenham

sweetmommasue said:
			
		

> I find in the middle Atlantic states is where the problem seems to be most noticeable. I haven't noticed any difference in treatment towards us in the New England states. But VA, MD, DE, NJ and PA-phew  . . . we have had some downright silly reactions!


Really?  I find that surprising.  I live in Northern Virginia, in the DC Suburbs, and I have never experienced serious problems.  Of course, I am white myself, but my best friend is black and married to a white woman.  I date a Peruana, and I am becoming more and more anxious to marry her.  Certainly, love will harden a couple's will no matter where they live, but the fact is, in our area we just don't often worry about such things.  Mixed couples are extremely common around here.

DC is, of course, Chocolate City, so if someone disagrees with a mixed marriage there, then they are probably black and racist.  Baltimore has similar demographics, and much of suburban Maryland is at least ehtnically diverse as Northern Virginia.  However, my understanding is that the rural parts of these states (in fact the majority of Virginia) are very different from the cosmopolitan and worldly suburbs.

Nobody is saying any region of the world is perfect.  I'm just surprised to hear you say that our region is particularly reactionary...  In fact, just the other day, my girlfriend's roommate (also Peruana and married to a white man) was telling me that when she and her husband lived in Alabama, "everyone was racist."  Of course that doesn't settle this matter, but clearly one mixed couple feels safer in Virginia...


----------



## zero

I have not heard of a country where there is no discrimination.  Civil wars rage to this day over race and religion the world over.  I find that cities with more diversity have a more accepting population.  In fact, it only seems natural.  

Where I live inter-racial marriages are quite common.  That being said, my ex-girlfriend's Chinese parents didn't seem too thrilled with me being white.  And we live in one of the most diverse melting pots in this country.

Were these contractors black or white?  White men may feel sexually threatened when they see a black man with a white woman.

The way I see it, you can stay where you are and try to lead by example or you can move to a city where you are accepted.  It's a hard decision to make.  I could never live anywhere so small-minded, and I would probably move.

Z


----------



## swift_precision

zero said:
			
		

> Were these contractors black or white? White men may feel sexually threatened when they see a black man with a white woman.
> 
> Z


 
Really? What would they feel threatened about?


----------



## zero

swift_precision said:
			
		

> Really? What would they feel threatened about?



Maybe insecure would be a better way of stating it.  Don't make me spell it out.

Z


----------



## JazzByChas

zero said:
			
		

> ...my ex-girlfriend's Chinese parents didn't seem too thrilled with me being white...





			
				zero said:
			
		

> …
> Were these contractors black or white? White men may feel sexually threatened when they see a black man with a white woman.
> Z



Yanno, I'm gonna make what may seem like a rather juvenile observance (not directly to your situation, zero). However, I have noticed that children who aren't indoctrinated in racism/prejudice/bigotry better see the world for what it is. If you think about it, "white", "black", and the like are just labels, which don't really fit. There are few, if any "white" people. If they are white, they are intensely albino, and have not much blood in them. Similarly for "black" people: most Africans are dark, but are a dark brown. My adopted sons, who are African American, are caramel, milk chocoloate, and dark chocolate . The foster child living with us is light beige. I myself and rather light reddish olive (my Native American heritage coming through)  .


I say this because, IMHO, it is a more interesting way to see people...people come in all shades, even if they are from the same mother and father. As I have said before, "diversity is the spice of life" and if we could (as a child) see people for what they are, and not for what we perceive or pre-judge them to be --ergo prejudice-- the world would be much more interesting place. 
** 
*Vive la différence!
*


----------



## santi

Well in my country(Colombia) racism is not seen that much or at least black-white racism.. I was descriminated when I was in the U.S.national wrestling  which team most members being white mocked me cuz I'm hispanic calling me a wetback(and I'm not even Mexican) and other stuff like they all called me paco cuz is the only name they said they knew how to pronounce in spenish.. well hope you enjoyed my story and I have a couple more the funniest one happened to me in good'ol Mobile,Alabama.. have a nice day all and blessings


----------

