# sadat merimiehet (partitive vs. -t plural)



## Gavril

Huomenta,

If _sadat merimiehet_ below means "hundreds of seamen", why would you say that the _-t_ plural form was used, rather than the partitive (satoja merimiehiä)?



> Merimies-Unionin mukaan suomalaisesta merimiehestä on tehty maksumies valtionyhtiöiden kilpailutuksissa: *sadat merimiehet* ovat jääneet työttömiksi tai ovat työttömyysuhan alla.



I would have expected the partitive here (e.g., _työttömiksi jäi satoja merimiehiä_) because

1. This group of seamen hasn't been mentioned before, as far as I can see (this is the first sentence of the news article)

2. There is no exact specification of how *many* hundreds of seamen are involved.

Is there another factor I'm overlooking?

Kiitos,
Gavril


PS -- I know I've asked similar questions before about the -t plural vs. partitive, but I feel like there are nuances that I still don't quite get.


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## Grumpy Old Man

The only non-expert opinion I can offer is that the author knows how many seamen are unemployed at the moment, or the number has at least been mentioned before—not in this news article but earlier newscasts.  He might as well have written _satoja merimiehiä on jäänyt työttömiksi tai on työttömyysuhan alla._ I don't particularly like _työttömyysuhan alla_, by the way. I would have preferred _tai heitä uhkaa työttömyys._

I don't see much point in worrying about such subtle differences, though.


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## Hakro

I agree with GOM. There's no real difference here between _sadat merimiehet _and _satoja merimiehiä_, and a writer can choose either one or the other phrase just by accident.


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## Spongiformi

I'll join the chorus. If you alter it just a little bit like this to join the sentences together more strongly:

_Merimies-Unionin mukaan suomalaisesta merimiehestä on tehty maksumies valtionyhtiöiden kilpailutuksissa, koska sadat merimiehet ovat jääneet työttömiksi..._

I don't think a native Finnish speaker would pause to think there's something off with it.


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## Gavril

Thanks for the responses.

Do you think the partitive/-t plural distinction is less important here because there is a specific numeral (*sadat*) preceding the noun? Or, is it because of something else about this context?

Also, if _sadat merimiehet_ were the object of a sentence, as in,

_Urani aikana tapasin *sadat merimiehet / satoja merimiehiä*_

is the partitive vs. -t distinction still unimportant?


Sorry for all the questions. 

Kiitos,
Gavril


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## Grumpy Old Man

_Sadat merimiehet _doesn't work in your sentence.


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