# Zumutung



## Cincimatti

Here's a puzzle I never could solve.
What's the best way to convey the essence of this word?

_Du warst also gestern im Theater; wie war die Vorstellung?_
_- Ach nee, vier Stunden lang und das kreichende Gesang! Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _

_(Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!)_

Imposition, Impertinence don't really hit it on the head for me.


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## kanoe

"c'est le comble !" "quel culot!" ?
Ou (plus figuré) : "insolence"  "insensé"  ?

What exactly are you trying to say ?


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## Voxy

Cincimatti said:


> Here's a puzzle I never could solve.
> What's the best way to convey the essence of this word?
> 
> _Du warst also gestern im Theater; wie war die Vorstellung?_
> _- Ach nee, vier Stunden lang und das dieser kreischende Gesang! Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _
> 
> _(Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!)_
> Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
> _Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!_
> (as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!"
> 
> Imposition, Impertinence don't really hit it on the head for me.



If the two words you came up with by your own just don't hit it, 
than I have to improvise a bit. 
What about: _What a waste!_
or
_What an experience!_

EDIT: Another possibility just crossed my mind: What an attack!

more freely: That scoffed my mind!

Voxy


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## Cincimatti

I'm trying for a sense of having one's patience pushed to the limit by extreme(ly bad or unrightfully arrogant) behavior, service or performance.


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## kanoe

"c'est inadmissible " ?
"une honte "?


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## Cincimatti

I found "effrontery" (I have never heard this word before).

_"Une effronterie" ?_
_ef·front·er·y (plural ef·front·er·ies)

noun Definition: *shameless nerve: *behavior or an attitude that is so bold or arrogant as to be insulting

[Late 17th century. < French effronterie< late Latin effront- "barefaced" < Latin front- "forehead"]_

I like it.  Thanks, kanoe, for getting me thinking on the French track. Is the meaning the same in French?


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## kanoe

you're right! I hadn't thought about this one
i wouldn't use it in this case, though...
The meaning is really close, but i hear it as more...personal. You can call a child "éffronté". Maybe not an operahouse staff or organisation...
and it dosen't imply patience. It's more like "rude"


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## cyanista

Cincimatti said:


> _- Ach nee, vier Stunden lang und das kreichende Gesang! Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _


 _The whole thing was a total/sheer disgrace._ 

(?)


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## Voxy

I considered "disgrace" too, but in my opinion it doesn't carry the
physical pain you're suffering, which is implied within "Zumutung". 

If *something* is a "Zumutung" you're truely suffering by
that particular *something*.

There is a wellknown English idiom, which I use pretty often to express
my disgust: This is just a pain in the ass. I guess that particular idiom is way
too colloquial. But I think it is close to that, what Cincimatti is looking for.

Suggestion: _What a pain! _ or _I really suffered pain! _

Voxy


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## Cincimatti

Hey Voxy, here's a _perfect_ word for it:

_ZUMUTUNG!_ 

It remains (to me) a unique, untouchable flavor in the German language that will forever evade exact translation... ;-)


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## Cincimatti

Here it is:

An *audacity*!

Definition: 1. *boldness or daring: *daring or willingness to challenge assumptions or conventions or tackle something difficult or dangerous
2. *impudence: *lack of respect in somebody's behavior toward another person


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## Voxy

Cincimatti said:


> Hey Voxy, here's a _perfect_ word for it:
> 
> _ZUMUTUNG!_
> 
> It remains (to me) a unique, untouchable flavor in the German language that will forever evade exact translation... ;-)



All right. 
So will other English natives understand "Zumutung"?


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## Voxy

Cincimatti said:


> Here it is:
> 
> An *audacity*!
> 
> Definition: 1. *boldness or daring: *daring or willingness to challenge assumptions or conventions or tackle something difficult or dangerous
> 2. *impudence: *lack of respect in somebody's behavior toward another person



All right. How do you tackle the entire English sentence then?
Is it like: _Heck, what an audacity!_

Voxy


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## wickerman

I think "audacity" can only be used to describe a person's attribute, not really a thing or event.  You'd say "he had the audactiy to say that to you?" but not "That was an audacity!"

What cyanista suggested, "total/sheer disgrace," definitely fits in my opinion, although you're right Voxy, it doesn't imply the suffering of the listener.  That's probably the best translation, but my dictionary also had a few other suggestions:

etw. ist [einfach] eine Zumutung -- sth. is [simply or just] too much; 
der Film/die Schauspielerin war eine Zumutung -- the film/actress was appalling
das Essen war eine Zumutung -- the meal was an affront


I especially like "affront."  It's almost like the meal was an attack on our delicate sensibilities!
[edit: It's probably related to "effrontery." Ihr seid mir zuvorgekommen!]

wickerman


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## Cincimatti

_Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _

_(Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!)_
Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
_Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!_ 
(as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!" 

Voxi:
Im Gegenteil, ich meinte meine (mangelhafte) deutsche Rechtschreibung sei ebenfalls für den Leser eine Zumutung!


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## Cincimatti

wickerman:

That's it, an assault on good taste.

Thanks


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## Voxy

Cincimatti said:


> _Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _
> 
> _(Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!)_
> Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
> _Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!_
> (as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!"
> 
> Voxi:
> Im Gegenteil, ich meinte meine (mangelhafte) deutsche Rechtschreibung sei ebenfalls für den Leser eine Zumutung!


I see. Now I get it.
_(...) Das war wohl die reinste *Zumutung*. _
_Genau wie meine deutsche Rechtschreibung. _


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## Cincimatti

Voxi:
Sorry, I just joined the forum yesterday. I used to be quite profficient in German, but I moved back to the States 5 years ago and I've become a bit rusty. Which, in turn, is where this forum is a huge help! It shouldn't take long to get it back.


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## Voxy

Hey, you're welcome.


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## dec-sev

Hi Voxi and Cincimatti. I'm confused.
Is far as I got it, the author has visited a theater and didn't like it at all.  What I don't understand is "Zumutung". I looked the word up in the dictionay and found three meanings none of which seems  to fit the context:
1 Impretinence, 2 imposition, 3 unreasonable demand.


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## Hutschi

"Zumutung" ist im vorliegenden Kontext eine Kombination aus "Frechheit" und "Unvermögen", eine Art Provokation.

Sie zeigen etwas, was man niemandem anbieten kann, obwohl sie vom Standpunkt des Zuschauers aus wissen müssten, das man so etwas nicht tut.

Viele empfinden allgemein Ausstellungen moderner Kunst und modernes Theater, welches einen stört und verärgert, als Zumutung.


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## Voxy

dec-sev said:


> Hi Voxi and Cincimatti. I'm confused.
> Is far as I got it, the author has visited a theater and didn't like it at all.  What I don't understand is "Zumutung". I looked the word up in the dictionay and found three meanings none of which seems  to fit the context:
> 1 Impretinence, 2 imposition, 3 unreasonable demand.




Hi Dec,

Cincimatti is seemingly looking for a more colloquial expression
than the three words you've suggested. 

Voxy


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## elroy

I suggest "ordeal."

In my opinion, that conveys the right emotions, and it's quite commonly used in contexts like this one. 

_-So you went to the theater yesterday.  How was it?_
_-Oh brother, four hours of that screeching music!  Let me tell you, it was an ordeal!_


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> _-So you went to the theater yesterday.  How was it?_
> _-Oh brother, four hours of that screeching music!  Let me tell you, it was an ordeal!_


I like this suggestion by far best! Excellent idea, Elroy!

Kajjo


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## Cincimatti

dec-sev:
In short, I mean to imply that the performance was too long and the singer or musical style was unbearably amateurish or extreme. i.e. "_That _was really expecting a lot [of patience/grace] of the audience!"

As I understand it:

_Das kannst du uns nicht *zumuten*!_

has the same flavor as

_You can't *expect* us *to have to put up* *with* that!_

Another example:

I was working in a store where we all had to wear uniforms. One day, the supervisors informed us that the company was changing the uniform, and presented a few samples of the new ones. They were so ugly that one of my colleagues cried out, _*"Das ist doch eine Zumutung!"* _meaning _"You can't possibly be serious, expecting us to have to wear those ugly things to work!"_

elroy:
yes, ordeal is good. Thanks for that.


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## elroy

I don't think you're going to find an English translation that works in every context.  Therein lies the beauty of the German word!


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## gaer

cyanista said:


> _The whole thing was a total/sheer disgrace._
> 
> (?)


I would be more likely to say: "It was pure torture."

Context would make clear if the "torture" was the result of something that was "disgracefully bad", etc., etc.

I'm not sure if there is anything that really works in English.

Gaer


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## bh7

Meaning 3 fits in this case.  The director (singers) made the demand on the audience to listen to their singing, their production, and this demand was considered highly unreasonable by the speaker. So I'd translate this as:
What d'you mean, we sat there for four hours and listened to this blasted [godawful] shrieking.  That director [singer][or: they] really expected a bit [a tad] much [from his/her/their audience]!


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