# Keeping your own traditions in a different culture



## Cereth

Hola!
I was thinking over and over about this thread´s name, maybe is not the best one but I cannot think about a different title, if mods decide to change it for a more suitable one , please do it.

Ok, well many of you know I currently live in Japan, now I am starting to miss mexican warmness and touchy behavior. We are always hugging , kissing, tapping our pals backs, and so on....

I am of the idea that you have to respect another culture´s belief and behaviors , specially if you are living in their land, but I think this "experience" was too much for me:  Last night an acquaintance of mine was so good to me, he helped me with my job, drove me home and also bought some food for me because I haven´t eaten anything yet, I was so happy and relieved that I hugged him instead of doing the usual reverence. 

He didn´t say anything but one of my coworkers said that was not a proper behavior (because my acquaintance is also a married man). I explained and say that it was a grattitude sign, that I don´t have any romantic feeling for "Mr. X" , I said that a Mexican does that when he/she is really thanked.
My coworker got mad and said: You are in Japan, you have to behave like Japanese, You have to respect our culture".....

So I got mad too, because I feel they are being intolerant with my culture too...I can eat with chopsticks and I usually don´t kiss my friends on the cheek as Hello/goodbye gesture and I don´t hug Mr.X in another ocassion it is just that I felt a reverence was not good enough for expressing my feeling.

My question is, What are the limits of respect in this situation?, Should I abandon my natural -mexican-behavior for fitting in that culture?
At which point is that worthy?
What would you in a similar situation?


Thank you and a big hug.


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## karuna

Hola Cereth,

I think it is not so much about (dis-)respecting different cultures but more about not acting according to the expectations. 

If someone would be hugging me in Latvia, especially a member of opposite sex, I would be confused about this. It is not something you do in Latvia. But I have lived among people to whom this is as normal as greeting, and it was no problem with me either. The same act can have different meaning depending on situation, where and by whom. It is the same thing as language that both involved persons must know what it means.

I don't know Japanese culture but from your description it seems that hugging was considered a very intimate act. And one should be always very careful with such things. 

I don't think there is a need to abondon one's own culture and tradition, like music, dress style and food choices, but when it comes to interacting with other people then it is worth to learn what they expect, rather than trying to push your own culture and traditions. That includes not only the way you greet and say thanks and goodbyes but also what kind of presents you give. For example, in Russia you can always give a host a bottle of alchohol as a present. But in India or muslim countries you can get in big trouble for this.

Gambatte!


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## David

Young people in the US make a lot of jokes about their friends' "mamas," but I wouldn´t do that in Mexico. Some actions are just considered wrong in some cultures.

Hugging a married man in Japan is probably going too far over the line. In fact, I suggest you apologize to him and explain that you were just doing what you do at home in México, that you did not mean to imply intimate feelings. The Japanese frequently apologize for things other people in the West might not considerable the cause of a problem.

And I would thank your other coworker for giving you this advice.

Since they know that Latin American customs are different, they are sure to forgive you, as long as you show equal respect for their customs.


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## lazarus1907

Hi,

You're in a country where intimate physical contact in public is avoided at all cost unless it is really necessary. In private, and with people you're intimate with, you surely can cross that line with no problem (being drunk also helps!  ). I have Japanese friends who wouldn't hesitate to hug me in front of others when they come to Spain, but when I saw them in Japan, (in public) they kept a respectful and significan distance between the two of use, with the usual bow, of course. Later, in private, the thing changed. Japanese people are very aware that there are protocols for different people and different places, and they follow them the best they can. I suggest you do the same.

Remember: Many Japanese like keeping distances in public, and you may offend them or making them very uncomfortable (and embarrassed) if you don't. In private, and with your friends, the rules change and no one has a problem with that.

As David said, if a foreigner came to your country and kept saying "Fu*k your mother!" to greet you, just because it is something that people do in his country and it meant to be affectionate, what would you think when others hear him talk to you like that? What would you think?


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## Kajjo

Generally, I believe you should respect the customs of the country you live in, but people of different cultures have to accept the "smallest common denominator" and particularly have to respect feelings of violated intimacy.

Physical contact is uncommon in Germany and personally I cannot accept such violating of my intimacy, not even in countries like Mexico or Spain, where I am guest. I think mutual respect requires to avoid physical intimacy in the first place.

Kajjo


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## maxiogee

When *Augustine* arrived in Milan, he observed that the Church did not fast on Saturday as did the Church at Rome. He consulted *Ambrose*, Bishop of Milan, who replied: "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday; when I am at Milan, I do not. Follow the custom of the Church where you are." The comment was changed to "When they are at Rome, they do there as they see done" by *Robert Burton* in his _Anatomy of Melancholy_. Eventually it became *"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

*​Not a bad attitude to abide by, and probably what is at the essence of the expatriate's heart-wrenching homesickness.


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## Lombard Beige

maxiogee said:


> When *Augustine* arrived in Milan, he observed that the Church did not fast on Saturday as did the Church at Rome. He consulted *Ambrose*, Bishop of Milan, who replied: "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday; when I am at Milan, I do not. Follow the custom of the Church where you are." The comment was changed to "When they are at Rome, they do there as they see done" by *Robert Burton* in his _Anatomy of Melancholy_. Eventually it became *"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."*​


​ Off-topic, but if I don't say here where I am going to say it? 
Curiously, this custom has survived in Milan in the so-called Ambrosian Rite of Catholicism. For example, in Milan they start Lent one week after veryone else. So in my area, which is borderline (like me ), you can go to two Carnivals in two places, depending on the Diocese. 

I think we could export the idea to Brazil. Maybe S. Paulo could adopt the Ambrosian Rite, while Rio maintains the Roman Rite, or viceversa? I can't see Rio saying no to another carnival week.

regards


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## djchak

It stinks, but you have to be careful, and adjust to that culture. The Japanese lady should not have been mad at you...(I would have been amused)....but let that one go, and learn from it.


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## ireney

I agree with djchack. Since we are talking about gestures of intimacy which are interpreted in a different way in different countries, you should apologise to Mr X. And this lady should apologise to you. 

I know I would never intentionally move to Japan or any other place where any kind of bowing is necessary since I know it's the right way to behave for them but it is not for me (and that  also means that e.g. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the second will not enjoy my company  ). If however I were to visit I would have to unbend a little 



Kajjo said:


> Generally, I believe you should respect the customs of the country you live in, but people of different cultures have to accept the "smallest common denominator" and particularly have to respect feelings of violated intimacy.
> 
> Physical contact is uncommon in Germany and personally I cannot accept such violating of my intimacy, not even in countries like Mexico or Spain, where I am guest. I think mutual respect requires to avoid physical intimacy in the first place.
> 
> Kajjo



I would call it "mutual respect" really. It's respect going only one way and in this particular case (I'm just using it as an example so no offence I hope) yours.  If it is a sign of friendship in a culture to hug or kiss a person then how's keeping the distances in any place you visit showing respect for that culture? 
Let us say for example that a Mexican person wants to show you his/her appreciation. He/she is not hugging you as (s)he'd like to because (s)he respects your culture. How are you showing your respect for his/hers?

In Greece things are a bit mixed up and there are the voluble people who will hug and possibly kiss others (and there's always the case of my best friend who _has_ to touch you in a little way if you are friends, she needs "connection" as she says) and there are others who use less "intimate" methods of showing their feelings, though most are considered too forward in many other cultures. 
Because of this most Greeks will first ask for permission (though a shopkeeper who didn't know English asked if it was OK to hug my boyfriend and when I said he would have no problem -he didn't, he found it sweet- she didn't wait for the translation so she took him by surprise ).

Other than this kind of cultural traditions for which one should be careful (including such as walking hand in hand with your loved one, kissing him/her in public etc) all others can be "observed" with minimum care for local customs


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## Kajjo

ireney said:


> I would call it "mutual respect" really. It's respect going only one way and in this particular case yours.  If it is a sign of friendship in a culture to hug or kiss a person then how's keeping the distances in any place you visit showing respect for that culture? Let us say for example that a Mexican person wants to show you his/her appreciation. He/she is not hugging you as (s)he'd like to because (s)he respects your culture. How are you showing your respect for his/hers?


I know this is a huge problem of rating one feeling higher than another. I expected comments and I am interested in discussing it!

What I meant was that _respect_ and _feeling_ are important, but that I personally consider _physical violation_ to be of higher value. I think hugging or even kissing is much more breaking the natural defense and intimacy of your own body than being told whether to bow, smile, grin or look away. I regard it as a huge difference whether we discuss about how "_we_ _should behave ourselves" _(look away, bow, cover the legs) or how _"we are physically handled_" (kissed, hugged, slapped). Personally, I feel that it is not violating mutuality if I accept to adapt my behaviour but not what other physically do to my body.

Kajjo


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## jinti

You have chosen a very group-oriented culture to live in -- you've probably heard the saying about the nail that sticks up getting hammered down (_deru kugi wa utareru_).  I think you got hammered down by your co-worker. 

It seems to me that when we choose to live in another country, we are choosing to live in that culture.  It can be wearing or frustrating or downright distasteful at times, but it can also help us learn to express ourselves in a greater variety of ways.  (We might retreat at times to "rest" a little in our own culture, but that's something not best done with acquaintances. ) 

You know, I'll bet you do get a fair amount of leeway as a _gaijin_ -- almost certainly more than you know.  This time, it just seemed a bit much to your co-worker. 

When it comes down to it, it's all just opinion but as long as it's Cereth versus Japan, Japan wins.


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## dtcarney

I am a firm believer that a person living/working a different country has the obligation to adapt to the host culture, even though it can be very hard and frustrating at times.  With vacationing the visitor should try to learn a little about the customs, but I dont see it as vital as living or working there since it will be for a shorter period of time.  It takes time to adapt to a different country  Cereth, I have had simular experiences only reversed coming from the US to Mexico.  Overall, stick with it, listen to your friends and try your hardest to adapt even though it can/will be difficult. In the long run the more you adapt the better experience you will have.


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## liulia

I too feel that when I live in a country I am a guest there and I try to adapt to local customs. Sometimes it can be a bit tricky or frustrating: I lived with my children in Malawi at a time when it was not acceptable for women or girls over the age of 9 to wear slacks, jeans or short skirts. My daughter was 10 when we arrived there, and I had to explain to her why she could no longer wear the jeans and shorts and dungarees she had lived in until then. I hope it was a lesson in the need to respect our hosts - even when their customs do not make sense to us!


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## badgrammar

Without reading through all the posts, I want to share that I have been in France for a loooog time.  As an American, my first instinct was to hug people, just friends or family, nothing more...

The problem is, THEY don't know what to do with it!  THEY have no idea what that means or how to respond.  They don't hug here!  I mean, maybe friends hug once every two hundred years, to mark some amazing, life-transcending event!  Lovers hug.  Parents and children hug.  Grandparents and children hug.  The occasional kid hugs a kid.  And that's about it.  

So definitely, tell the guy you're sorry, explain that where you come from that's normal, but you realize that in Japan it is not.  That's easy to explain.  He will believe you, he will understand, he's most certainly not ignorant of how things work in other cultures.  They have movie theaters there, right?  But say sorry, offer your explanation, then don't worry about it for one second more.  

Your co-worker also found it scary in her culture.  Don't sweat it - if your intentions were honorable, then let everyone know you made a faux pas based on your culture.  They're not dim, they will understand.  

Your friend was right to tell you what she thinks, what kind of friend would just tell you what you want to hear?


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## jess oh seven

Different actions have different connotations in each culture. If certain actions are deemed offensive or inappropriate, you should try your best to make a conscious effort to avoid doing them, even if they're completely acceptable in your culture. 

If you were to meet a new person here and you went to kiss them on the cheek, they might not take it very well. In general, we'll acknowledge eachother verbally or at the very most, shake hands. But when I lived in Spain, if you were merely to nod in a new acquaintance's direction when being introduced, you would be considered rude. To me though, I feel that being that "intimate" with a stranger is a bit too much, but it's what they do so I complied.


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## badgrammar

I remember when I hugged my husaband's grandmother.  She did not know where to put her hands, I swear her bosom against mine must have been a real shock for her. She did not hug back, it was as if i were inflicting on her something she really did not know how to deal with.  

So yeah, you also have to think that no matter your good intentions, the person you are dealing with may recieve you affection with indifference/fear/intimidation/disgust.  

It's like if in an imaginary culture a friend tongue-kisses you.  How would you deal with that?   You would certainly be happy for an explanation?


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## KateNicole

Cereth,
I think all that matters is that you know that you did not hug your coworker with any malicious or sexual intentions, whether he was a little confused or not.  He will get over it, and as long as you are modest and professional around him, he has no reason to feel uncomfortable with you in the future.  Maybe the next time you hug someone in Japan, you could just say right away, "In my country, we hug people that we know," so that it can be immediately clear that the hug is out of friendliness and not lust.  In Mexico, you don't take off your shoes when you enter someone's home, and in most cases, doing so would be considered very rude and and sometimes even trashy.  I believe that in certain parts of Japan people remove their shoes before entering the home, and I would imagine that if a Japanese guest did so in your home to show respect, you would realize that it was cultural difference and not take offense, even if it was "strange" to you.  I hope your friends will be able to do the same with you.  

Above all else, even if your friends in Japan expect you to "behave like a Japanese person," they also must understand that you _aren't_ Japanese, and you never will be.  They may not always like your "Mexicanisms," but I think getting upset over a hug that was given with the most innocent of intentions (_*especially after you explained your reasoning*_) is just . . .  intolerance.   Maybe she was just looking out for you, though.  

I think we can all be guilty of this every now and then.  I have a Mexican coworker who told me that a Puerto Rican student said _pinche _to her. . . she was actually referring to a hair clip.  My coworker told me that she was so "offended" that the girl would speak like that--even though she (my coworker) _knew _that the girl was not trying to swear and that the word meant something else to her!  The student actually said "Se me quebró el pinche y por eso me veo mal peinada," because she was left with some sort of a crease in her hair.  She never said anything like "pinche vieja" nor did her tone reflect any level of annoyance that would generally accompany swearing.  And, we weren't in Mexico . . . we were in the US, so it's not like Mexican Spanish is what rules here.  What I can't understand is why my coworker wouldn't have just thought to herself, "This girl and I are from two different countries, which means we don't speak exactly the same Spanish, and _pinche _must mean something different to her."  I think it was asinine to make such a big deal out such a non-issue.  Every now and then people get worked up over inconsequential misunderstandings.  Don't let it get you down.   It can be so difficult adapting to a new culture, and I think the differences between Japanese culture and Mexican culture are very great.  Don't get discouraged.  I'm sure the vast majority of the people you meet there will be sincerely interested in you and your customs and flattered that you are trying to experience their life and culture.

Maybe your coworker wasn't offended at all by the hug even if it seemed "new" to him.  I think your friend should have given you more subtle advice and taken into account the fact that people will (or at least _should_, in my opinion) realize that your behavior will at times be different due to your culture and _accept _that, even if they don't always like it.  Even within the _same _culture, people won't always agree . . .


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## Cereth

Thank you so much everybody for your answers
^^
I feel I am not an irrespectful _gaijin -foreigner-_
I am not hugging and  kissing everybody here, I do the reverence most of the time...But I think that in some circumstances Japanese DO behave intolerant...
For example my japanese friends living in Mexico are not forced to eat with forks, they can eat with their chopsticks everytime they want and refuse to be hugged, kissed on the check,...we always respect them....Guess I ´m feeling somehow homesick jaja...
Anyway the funny thing is that MR. X didn´t feel offended, He said he understood and that he was glad to be helpful....He said my coworker overreacted (because When I thanked Mr. X we were not at the office or in front his wife, we were outside my apartment surrounded by another 2 coworkers....So He perfectly understood my intentions were not sexual....

Still, sometimes living here is very tuff....


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## karuna

If you coworker was a female then probably she was simply jealous. You know, that some mexican girl comes and hugs our men just as an expresion of thanks, although we themselves can never act like that. Of course, she couldn't say that therefore she decided to chastise you for disrespecting the culture instead.


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## Athaulf

Cereth said:


> My question is, What are the limits of respect in this situation?, Should I abandon my natural -mexican-behavior for fitting in that culture?
> At which point is that worthy?
> What would you in a similar situation?



Personally, I am in a somewhat similar situation, because I currently live and work in a country whose culture is substantially different from the corner of the world where I grew up (though the difference is probably not as drastic as between Mexico and Japan). I'd say that it's certainly in your best interest to adapt to the norms of behavior of your host culture. By violating them, you're at best making people uncomfortable and coming off as rude, and at worst risking serious trouble. Behavior that's viewed as acceptable and unremarkable (or even expected) in one place   can easily be perceived as extremely deviant or offensive elsewhere. 

That being said, when one works with a highly diverse body of coworkers, exceptions can sometimes be made when one interacts with colleagues that share a similar cultural background. However, one should be very careful about this. It's important to carefully choose people with whom one will make exceptions to the usual rules of interaction. It's also necessary to ensure that nothing that breaks the usual rules is done in front of any third parties that might find it objectionable in any way.

Generally, my approach is to treat everyone at work with a high level of formality whenever there exists a difference in rank, regardless of any other circumstances. However, in other cases, I usually quickly spot people who would appreciate moving to a more informal and cordial tone and who share the same ideas of what that should look like. Still, I wait for some socialization out of work to take place before I really start treating them like buddies.


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## maxiogee

Cereth said:


> My question is, What are the limits of respect in this situation?, Should I abandon my natural -mexican-behavior for fitting in that culture?
> At which point is that worthy?




I think we need - when in a foreign country - to moderate our behaviour. The locals will, if they are sensible, not expect us to do exactly as they do in everything, but in important matters we should, as I said above, 'do as the Romans do'.
We need to retain our own norms or we would, after a time in a foreign country, lose our real personalities.

I think your co-worker was wrong not to accept your one-off outburst of 'Mexicanness' as a natural thing for you to do. They _should _have said "Well okay, but don't do it too often." and laughed it off.




Cereth said:


> What would you in a similar situation?


I would probably tell the co-worker that all cultures need to be respected and that they would not wish to lose all their 'Japaneseness' were they to be away from home.


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## Cereth

Thank you Maxiogee that´s my point of view...
If my co-worker should´ve said _"Well okay, but don't do it too often." and laughed it off,_ then I would laugh back and said yeah you´re right, _gomen ne_ (I´m sorry).

By the way my co-worker is a man ^^'....Don´t know why you supposed he was a woman.


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## clairanne

hi

I would say that a person should do their best not to affend the feelings of the citizens of the country they are living in.  Japanese people that I have met, for example do not like or expect physical contact so I respect their wishes.  As an English person I am not at home with the continental habit of cheek kissing when we meet but I would not shy away from it as I do not wish to offend and it does not do me any harm. 
 I think the problems arise when cultures have very different ideas of what is "proper" and I know from experience that what I, as an English girl considered to be normal conversation was interpreted quite differently by a "foreign" man and I nearly got into a compromising position because of it.


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## Chaska Ñawi

Montreal's post on immigrant communities maintaining their traditions in a new country has now been split off from this thread to begin a new one here.


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