# say it who shouldn't



## Quantz

You'd think he had everything he wanter here. He doesn't have to lift a finger. *Even though I say it who shouldn't*, the food here is as good as anything cooked by that Jamie Oliver, You know who I mean.

*Even though I say it who shouldn't : *


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## pieanne

Même si c'est moi qui le dit et qui ne devrait pas (le dire) ?


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## Alipeeps

Mmm... c'est pas très bon anglais "even though I say it who shouldn't". Il doit ploutôt être, "Though I shouldn't [really] say it..."


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## Quantz

I suspected something along these lines, but now, thanks to you, I'm sure.


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## williamc

Hi hehhstan,

"Even if I do say as shouldn't"  is the colloquial term used.


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## Quantz

The wxoman speaking is quite upstanding.
Meaning she's colloquial here ?


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## Alipeeps

williamc said:


> Hi hehhstan,
> 
> "Even if I do say as shouldn't" is the colloquial term used.


 
Really? In what region? I've never heard/seen that phrasing before... :S


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## Shang Qin Li

Where did you dig that one out of, williamc ? Like Alipeeps, I've never heard that before, and I can't find any reference to it anywhere either. Are you sure the phrasing is right ?


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## Physics Guy

I've never heard the phrase before either (U. S. English), and it doesn't make any sense to me.  It will take a lot more context to know how to fix it.


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## Quantz

Previous guesses make perfectly sense, and context wouldn't yield anything more : after that, the two woman speak about cars… (and before that about Santa Claus)…


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## Shang Qin Li

hellstan said:


> Previous guesses make perfectly sense, and context wouldn't yield anything more : after that, the two woman speak about cars… (and before that about Santa Claus)…


 
Sorry, very sorry indeed. But I don't get you at all. What cars and Santa Claus have got to do with it ? Neither Alipeeps, Physics Guy nor myself have heard that phrase, Could you be more specific ? That said, may I remind you that good translations are not based on mere guess-work....


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## Quantz

Shang Qin Li said:


> Sorry, very sorry indeed. But I don't get you at all. What cars and Santa Claus have got to do with it ? Neither Alipeeps, Physics Guy nor myself have heard that phrase, Could you be more specific ? That said, may I remind you that good translations are not based on mere guess-work....



Dear Shang Qin
Pieanne's suggestion makes perfectly sense to me. 
Cars & Santa Claus : that's my point : context here is no use, because the 2 characters, in context, speak about cars and Santa Claus.
Regarding guesswork : I published over 45 translations (around 30 000 pages, all in all), never making any guesswork of it.


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## Physics Guy

All right, well pieanne's sentence translates in normal English in the available context to

"Even if I have no right to say it," . . .

or

"Even if it's not mine to say," . . .


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## Shang Qin Li

hellstan said:


> Dear Shang Qin
> Pieanne's suggestion makes perfectly sense to me.
> Cars & Santa Claus : that's my point : context here is no use, because the 2 characters, in context, speak about cars and Santa Claus.
> Regarding guesswork : I published over 45 translations (around 30 000 pages, all in all), never making any guesswork of it.


 
You're 30 and have gone through 30,000 pages for 45 translations ? That 666.66 pages per translation. Well you ARE a lucky guy.  
Private message awaiting you


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## Quantz

6 translation a year since 7,5 years…
Call it luck or HARD work… 

PM ? Where ? I have none…


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## Alipeeps

Physics Guy said:


> All right, well pieanne's sentence translates in normal English in the available context to
> 
> "Even if I have no right to say it," . . .
> 
> or
> 
> "Even if it's not mine to say," . . .


 
A common phrase in such a context is "Though it's not my place to say, ...." but that doesn't seem to fit the context given in the original post.

For that example - "the food here is as good as anything cooked by that Jamie Oliver" - I would suggest the most appropriate phrase for what we can understand of the limited context would be:

"_Even if I do say so myself_, the food here is as good as anything cooked by that Jamie Oliver"


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## Quantz

Thanks a lot, Alipeeps, this is really quite clear now.


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## Shang Qin Li

Physics Guy said:


> All right, well pieanne's sentence translates in normal English in the available context to
> 
> "Even if I have no right to say it," . . .
> 
> or
> 
> "Even if it's not mine to say," . . .


 
As you say... "in the available context"... your idea is OK then. But there's still something wrong with original sentence.


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## Quantz

Maybe we could credit the author of some expertise.
She's an extremely renowned british writer
(I'm sorry I cannot disclose her name for confidentiality reasons.)


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## Alipeeps

hellstan said:


> Maybe we could credit the author of some expertise.
> She's an extremely renowned british writer
> (I'm sorry I cannot disclose her name for confidentiality reasons.)


 
Even renowned writers aren't perfect. No offense intended but, as a native English speaker, the original English text you give is not great, grammatically-speaking. 

P.S. While we're on the subject of grammar, it should be "credit the author *with* some expertise".


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## williamc

Hi Shan Qin Li,

My wife used to say it and her family came from Cornwall (England).


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## Shang Qin Li

hellstan said:


> Maybe we could credit the author of some expertise.
> She's an extremely renowned british writer
> (I'm sorry I cannot disclose her name for confidentiality reasons.)


 
Even renowned writers do make mistakes or indulge in coining new words and expressions. Have you ever read any one of Victor Hugos' novels ? Or James Joyce's "Ulysses" ?


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## Quantz

Alipeeps said:


> Even renowned writers aren't perfect. No offense intended but, as a native English speaker, the original English text you give is not great, grammatically-speaking.
> 
> P.S. While we're on the subject of grammar, it should be "credit the author *with* some expertise".



You're right, of course, but here don't forget it's a dialog, and a character's  language must be a piece of reality, not a treatise in grammar — hence the less than perfect phrasing — reason why translators from translation schools usually do very well with commercial, political, non-fiction texts, and not so well with fiction.

I must credit you *with* much expertise, dear Alipeeps, and stand corrected.


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## Alipeeps

williamc said:


> Hi Shan Qin Li,
> 
> My wife used to say it and her family came from Cornwall (England).


 
Must be a regional colloquialism then... it's certainly not common usage, or not enough for folks not from Cornwall to have heard before!


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## Alipeeps

hellstan said:


> You're right, of course, but here don't forget it's a dialog, and a character's language must be a piece of reality, not a treatise in grammar — hence the less than perfect phrasing.
> 
> I must credit you *with* much expertise, dear Alipeeps, and stand corrected.


 
True enough, it could be that the particular phrasing is a conscious choice by the author to have the character speak in a form of idiom or dialect... mind you, my general comment about the standard of grammar applied not just to the unsual wording of the phrase in question but also the general level of grammar in the passage posted (punctuation mistakes etc.)

Or are those to be attributed more to hasty typing than to the author's intent?


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## Quantz

Shang Qin Li said:


> Even renowned writers do make mistakes or indulge *in coining new words and expressions*. Have you ever read any one of Victor Hugos' novels ? Or James Joyce's "Ulysses" ?




*indulge in coining new words and expressions : *I hope so ; thanks to Stephane Mallarmé, it's what they're in the business for. If they weren't, language would be dying 
Yes, I studied Victor Hugo and spent some time with the great Dubliner too…
and with William S. for that matter, who invented his fair share of english language too…


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## Quantz

Alipeeps said:


> Or are those to be attributed more to hasty typing than to the author's intent?



No, Alipeeps : I'm always very accurate when typing questions here, trying not to forget a comma here or a period there, knowing all the difference it makes.


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## Alipeeps

hellstan said:


> No, Alipeeps : I'm always very accurate when typing questions here, trying not to forget a comma here or a period there, knowing all the difference it makes.


 
Really? Because there are a couple of mistakes in the original text which I assumed were just typos:



> You'd think he had everything he wante*d* here. He doesn't have to lift a finger. *Even though I say it who shouldn't*, the food here is as good as anything cooked by that Jamie Oliver*.* You know who I mean.


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## Quantz

Alipeeps said:


> Really? Because there are a couple of mistakes in the original text which I assumed were just typos:



"… _trying_ not to forget…"


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## Shang Qin Li

Alipeeps said:


> Even renowned writers aren't perfect. No offense intended but, as a native English speaker, the original English text you give is not great, grammatically-speaking.
> 
> P.S. While we're on the subject of grammar, it should be "credit the author *with* some expertise".


 
I fully agreee with you


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## Alipeeps

hellstan said:


> "… _trying_ not to forget…"


 


Well, you know what they say... if at first you don't succeed, try and try again!


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