# horse-botherer



## Kamo B

Hi! I am translating in French a short film called "Capital", in which a referendum brings back Capital Punishment (it's a satire). One of the character who is in favour of capital punishment lists people he would execute: Rapists, murderers, pedophiles, terrorists, traitors, gangsters, saboteurs, horse-botherers, animal-ﬁddlers (...). I was wondering what could be "horse-botherer"? Maybe zoophilous? Or people who steal horses? 
Thanks in advance!


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## Itisi

quelqu'un qui importune les chevaux.  On peut prendre ça comme on veut...


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## constantlyconfused

Horse-botherers must simply be animal-fiddlers who specialise in horses...
#2 and #3 above are both on the right lines.


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## Itisi

*trellis*, the idea is quite clear from the context.


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## trellis

As a translation I can only offer 'emmerdeurs de chevaux'.


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## petit1

niqueurs de chevaux


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## Itisi

to bother = importuner.  A policeman might say to a woman, Madam, is this man bothering you?

niquer/emmerder, etc are much too explicit.


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## petit1

Bon, alors une invention : un enqui  niqueur de chevaux .


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## Itisi

'importuner' se comprend parfaitement !


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## Nicomon

Sorry for those who replied to my now deleted posts.  At this point, I wish I hadn't bothered. 
As a francophone (and translator)  I honestly thought that « _baiseurs _» and petit1 « _niqueurs _»  did capture the absurde/ridiculous and were in line with the listed _rapists, pedophiles_ and _animal fiddlers. _

I later on suggested « _enquiquineur de chevaux_ », based on to bother = enquiquiner
If only for the sound of it, I find that more comic than  _importuneur  _(is that a word?)

I'll just repeat that my initial suggestion of _baiseurs de chevaux_  was based on Omelette's answer to that thread :
*donkey-botherer*

And yes... meant as a joke. That said, we have yet to hear from Kamo B. How about letting her decide ?**


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## Itisi

It's a question of register.  If someone said 'excrément', I wouldn't translate it as 'shit'.


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## Nicomon

Then I wish I hadn't read the  donkey-botherer thread and this reply,  which started the whole thing.


Omelette said:


> This suggests -- obviously as a joke-- that the players went around ‘bothering’ -- i.e. having sex with -- donkeys.


 You know  I'm the first one to  talk about registers, but one can adapt',  too.



*bother [sb]⇒* _vtr_(annoy)ennuyer⇒ _vtr_*(familier)*embêter⇒, *enquiquiner*⇒ *vtr** (soutenu)**importuner⇒ vtr*


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## trellis

Itisi said:


> to bother = importuner.  A policeman might say to a woman, Madam, is this man bothering you?
> 
> niquer/emmerder, etc are much too explicit.


I don't understand why emmerder is too explicit....



*emmerder [qqn]⇒* _vtr_ _vulgaire_ (importuner)annoy⇒, bother⇒ _vtr_


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## petit1

Pourquoi "fiddler" me fait-il penser à un joueur de violon ?
Il existe un _horse-head fiddle_ qui est une sorte de violon de Mongolie. Comme il s'agit d'une satire, l'auteur peut ne pas apprécier le son de cet instrument et aurait pu inverser volontairement "botherer" et "fiddler" . 
Je sais, c'est tiré par les cheveux (les crins ?)


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## Itisi

petit1 said:


> Je sais, c'est tiré par les cheveux (les crins ?)


Oui !


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## guillaumedemanzac

Sorry to come in so late but the verb and noun are BUGGER / Bugger / buggerer    .

someone who buggers animals

A horse buggerer prefers horses and a donkey buggerer prefers donkeys.

He's a nasty bugger is usually offensive BUT not, NOT, NOT literal.

but the word "bugger" means to physically bugger a male human or any animal (within reason) --- e.g. not a sparrow or a mouse.

I don't understand the censorship in #2  - #5 but I presume the subject is 'hors jeux' for a dictionary forum //// ////????  - but that is what "bugger" means so I don't understand the reticence - it is very vulgar and ILLEGAL.

In French "enculer" means to do IT up the arse not the cunt so enculer (very vulgar) is the word  - noun "enculeur" ????
French slang 1960s was "Enculez-vous!" but the more polite English version would be "Stuff it up your arse."

Modern version "Stuff it up your arse, then eat it!" - also quite vulgar!


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## Itisi

I'm not censoring anything, me!  It says 'botherer', not 'buggerer'.  I didn't write it!


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## Nicomon

I just want to remind everyone that Kamo (where is she ? )  wrote this.   





Kamo B said:


> I was wondering what could be "horse-botherer"? Maybe zoophilous?


 There's a thin line between _zoophile _and well... I won't start again. 

Le problème, Itisi, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de substantif pour « quelqu'un qui importune ».  _Importuneur _n'est pas dans les dicos.
Je bouge la définition d'_enquiquineur _que j'avais mise dans un post précédent :


> XXe siècle. Dérivé d'_enquiquiner._ Pop.* Personne qui ne cesse d'importuner ceux qui l'entourent.*


Si_ enquiquineur _(euphémisme d'_emmerdeur) _ne va pas et qu'on veut éviter les trop explicites _baiseur/niqueur/enculeur_, je suggère*  : *_*harceleurs de chevaux. * _Comme le verbe _harceler _a plus d'un sens... il me semble que ça pourrait marcher.

Et là,  je commence vraiment à être à court d'idées._ _


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## constantlyconfused

Is '_attoucheur_' a noun?


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## Garoubet

Oui, mais cela veut dire une personne qui touche doucement, qui effleure. Cela peut prendre un sens péjoratif s'il s'agit d'attouchements à caractères sexuels.


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## Nicomon

Other than _attoucheur_, there is  _peloteur / tâteur / tripoteur. _
But I think I'd reserve those (especially the latter) to translate _animal-fiddler_.

_Sodomiseurs d'équidés.    _N'importe quoi.


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## guillaumedemanzac

"BOTHERER"  a euphemism for buggerer or sodomiser - otherwise why is there a *execution* sentence for annoying a horse  … along with rapists and pedophiles who rape/seduce and "bother" under-age children??


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## L'irlandais

Euphemism it may be, but as Itisi points out language is all about context and register.  If the script had a list of explicatives then fine, but it does not.  Which fits with the satire.


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## guillaumedemanzac

The context here is clear - the writer is proposing a *death sentence *for rapists, pedophiles and horse botherers - so bothering a horse does NOT mean annoying him or upsetting him


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## Itisi

A euphemism should be translated by another euphemism.  

I think I have said all I have to say now.  Goodnight!


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## Nicomon

As a translator, I have very often mentioned register in this forum. However in my mind, a euphemism - defined as a figure of speech - is different from register, which to me means this :





> "Register" is a general term for the level of language, including vulgar, slang, casual, familiar, colloquial, formal.


 Granted, it's a euphemism.
But  It's not as if the sentences will be read together, with English on the left and French on the right.
So either you translate the word, or the understood meaning.  At least choose the right euphemism.

Someone please tell me what noun matches  « importuner » if you don't want to say or write : _quelqu'un qui importune_.
Do you agree with any of  the suggestions? So far - other than the more explicit nouns - we have : _emmerdeur, enquiquineur, harceleur... _

I'm now adding :_ *abuseurs de chevaux.   * _As in this article - don't kill the messenger, I didn't write this :


> *Abuseur de cheval trahi par une caméra*
> Un équidé a subi des sévices sexuels. Son agresseur a été entendu par la police. Mais il a récidivé presque aussitôt.
> Une jument a été sodomisée à plusieurs reprises par un jeune de 19 ans. Malgré une plainte il a récidivé*.*


  If the news is real... that's really SICK_*.  *_

Qu'est-ce que je fais encore sur ce fil, alors que Kamo B n'est jamais revenue en ligne ?


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## Itisi

Nicomon said:


> _ *abuseurs de chevaux*_


Eh bien voila, c'est parfait !  (Autrement, 'quelqu'un qui importune' ne me gêne pas, personnellement.)


Nicomon said:


> If the news is real... that's really SICK*. *


Mais enfin, c'est de ça qu'on parle depuis le début !


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## Nicomon

Je sais que c'est de ça qu'on parle depuis le début, mais le contexte (short film: _Capital_) est une satire.
Alors, comme la nouvelle n'a rien à voir avec le film, ça ne m'empêche pas de trouver ce jeune récidivant MALADE !

Moi non plus_ « quelqu'un qui importune»  _ne me gêne pas (trop) s'il est employé seul.
Mais cela ressemble à une définition et  j'imagine mal une liste comme :
- _Les violeurs, meurtriers, pédophiles, terroristes, [...], personnes qui importunent les chevaux...  _

Espérons que Kamo B aimera  aussi  _:  *abuseurs de chevaux.* _
Sinon tant pis ; j'ai assez donné.__


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## lentulax

Kamo B said:


> Maybe zoophilous


the word is zoophiles, of which horse-botherers are indeed a sub-class ; and active zoophiles are animal-fiddlers (I realise, of course, that you weren't proposing zoophiles as a translation).


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## guillaumedemanzac

Even zoophiles is a euphemism, just like fiddlers or botherers. The text given by Kamo B clearly states that the crime is worthy of a death sentence - in the same way that rapists, pedophiles or terrorists should (in this guy's moral sphere) be sentenced to death. .. The correct word for this crime is sodomy or buggery or having non-consensual sex with animals i.e. raping them. Dictionaries should avoid the niceties of euphemisms and state it like it is.


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## Nicomon

I didn't find the extended list that Kamo B wrote in the initial post, but this is about the short film "Capital" : 





> It’s not long before hardcore nooser Liam (played by Liam Williams), who believes “*animal fiddlers, horse botherers*, bankers, fake vicars” *should be hung*, clashes with Matilda, a no campaigner disgusted at his attitude.


 This is a satire and I think the script writer purposely used euphemisms.


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## trellis

Yes, this is a comedy - it's supposed to be funny! A political satire on government and the Brexit process.

You can easily find the sound track of all 6 episodes. This is from 5 minutes into the first, when Liam lists why he voted yes...
Rapists, murderers, pedophiles, terrorists, gangsters, traitors, blasphemers, animal-ﬁddlers, horse-botherers, bankers, tax evaders, tax avoiders, sharks, swindlers, spivs, squatters, layabouts, shirkers, fake vicars, low-life dogs....


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## guillaumedemanzac

Rapists etc.... should what ?????? be locked up, be executed, be publicly stoned to death (as in some countries) …

. you don't list the punishment they should be given.

 In *this *context .. the writer in this thread  .. says they should be executed.


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## Nicomon

Please give it up guillaume. This is really starting to look like flogging a  dead horse !!! 
(lame pun intended)


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## constantlyconfused

Nicomon said:


> This is really starting to look like flogging a  dead horse !!!


 
I have to agree, surely this thread has run its course by now.


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## guillaumedemanzac

Did you say flogging a dead horse??   or fucking a dead horse??    that adds necrophilia to the crimes of sodomy and buggery.

and I'm still only on 5,690 posts.

- and those two awful puns (CC and Nico) should kill it off - I always told my brother to stop backing losers at the races and start backing winners.


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## trellis

It"s enough to make a horse laugh.


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## guillaumedemanzac

A friend has a horse that races better in the dark; it's a nightmare!

My pony has a sore throat: it's a little hoarse!

#5691


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## guillaumedemanzac

il fait beau et je m'en vais # 5692


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