# 不 / 無



## maghanish2

你好!

My Chinese is very poor, but in my studies I've come across two different words for "no".  That is, two different negation words: 不 and 無.

Are both of these in use nowadays?  If so, how are they different?

Also, is this the simplified form of 無?:  无

Thanks again for the help, and I apologize if I don't make any sense!

謝謝!


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## twinklestar

Hi!

不：is an adverb. It usually modifies a verb. 

eg: 不去，不走，不看，不读，不吃，不行

无：is an adjective. It usually modfies a noun.

eg.  无人= no people  无处(可去): no place (to go)

天涯何处无芳草


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## maghanish2

謝謝!

I think I understand.  But is 无 the simplified form?  For example, in Taiwan do they only use 無?

Thanks again!


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## twinklestar

maghanish2 said:


> 謝謝!
> 
> I think I understand. But is 无 the simplified form? For example, in Taiwan do they only use 無?
> 
> Thanks again!


 
You're welcome. Yes, in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan, people use traditional Chinese characters; in the mainland of China, Singapore, people use simplified Chinese characters. 

Generally, there's no big problem for people to read the two different systems of characters because they are quite similar and not all Chinese characters are simplified.


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## maghanish2

That is what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure what I had read was correct.

Really?  So Taiwanese people can understand Mainland China's books and newspapers, for example?  That's pretty interesting.

Oh and what does this sentence that you wrote mean: 天涯何处无芳草?

Thanks!


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## twinklestar

I don't know whether it is an appropriate comparison or not. I would compare simplified Chinese characters and traditional Chinese characters to "humor (US) and "humour(UK)", or pls and please.

So is there any problem for you native speakers to read the following sentences?

Plz give me a humor joke ASAP.

Please give me a humour joke as soon as possible. 

No matter how the words simplified, they are Chinese characters, and can be not change completely. 

无涯何处无芳草 =There's till a lot of fish in the sea.


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## twinklestar

You would find the two systems of Chinese characters are very close.



Tradictional Chinese Characters



> 隨著發射時間的臨近，“神七”壹直牽動著人們的心。又是壹年中秋節，參加“神七”決戰的重慶親人在航天基地過得怎樣？他們有什麽節日心願？航天人要對重慶人說些什麽？帶著這些“任務”，12日，本報特派記者再次造訪東風航天城。
> 到航天城後的第壹件事，是給決戰“神七”的重慶英雄們帶去晚報人的心意——家鄉特産的月餅。送完月餅，夜幕已垂。可航天城的月亮清輝瀉地，甚至亮得有些“晃眼”，讓因爲“完成任務”而輕松惬意的記者覺得——原來披星戴月竟可以這樣舒服。


 
Simplified Chinese Characters


> 随著发射时间的临近，“神七”一直牵动著人们的心。又是一年中秋节，参加“神七”决战的重庆亲人在航天基地过得怎样？他们有什么节日心愿？航天人要对重庆人说些什么？带著这些“任务”，12日，本报特派记者再次造访东风航天城。
> 到航天城后的第一件事，是给决战“神七”的重庆英雄们带去晚报人的心意——家乡特产的月饼。送完月饼，夜幕已垂。可航天城的月亮清辉泻地，甚至亮得有些“晃眼”，让因为“完成任务”而轻松惬意的记者觉得——原来披星戴月竟可以这样舒服。


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## maghanish2

Okay. You're right, I completely understand both of the English sentences. And the Chinese ones definitely do look very much alike.  It doesn't seem too "simplified" if their goal was to make it easier.  Haha.

Thanks again for the help! It's so great to have someone help me with Chinese, since it's SUCH a difficult language!


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## tzyy

twinklestar said:


> Hi!
> 
> 不：is an adverb. It usually modifies a verb.
> 
> eg: 不去，不走，不看，不读，不吃，不行
> 
> 无：is an adjective. It usually modfies a noun.
> 
> eg. 无人= no people 无处(可去): no place (to go)
> 
> 天涯何处无芳草


*I*n a word, when 不 is in a phrase, it means not. *W*hile 无（無） is no.

*T*here is more about 不 I want to talk about here~

*Y*ou may see sth *something* like this in your further study:去不去，走不走，看不看，讀不讀，吃不吃，行不行 etc.

*T*his means wether to go or not, or to see or not, read or not, eat or not, and the last one means"is that ok?"

*I*n this case, 不 is a part of the phrase, and the phrase is inseparable. These are just expressions, and 不 here has no exact meaning, just indicates that it is a phrase about question.


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## maghanish2

謝謝 tzyy.

Then, is the phrase 看不看 sort of like saying "to look at or not look at"?  So could it be translated as "do you look after?"?

I hope I undersatnd.  For example, I've heard before 懂不懂 and I've been told it means "Do you understand".  So does it literally mean "understand, not understand?"?

Thanks again for the help!


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## twinklestar

tzyy said:


> in a word, when 不 is in a phrase, it means not. while 无（無） is no.
> 
> there is more about 不 I want to talk about here~
> 
> you may see sth like this in your further study:去不去，走不走，看不看，讀不讀，吃不吃，行不行 etc.
> 
> this means wether to go or not, or to see or not, read or not, eat or not, and the last one means"is that ok?"
> 
> in this case, 不 is a part of the phrase, and the phrase is inseparable. These are just expressions, and 不 here has no exact meaning, just indicates that it is a phrase about question.


 
I beg to differ. '不' do have exact meaning. It indicates no.  In your examples, actually, they can be read as: 

去不去？＝去，不去？(it is short for ＂（你，他，他们等等）去，还是不去？）
看不看？＝看，不看？？(it is short for ＂（你，他，他们等等）看，还是不看？）

You go, or don't go?

＂不＂是实义词！

http://xh.5156edu.com/html3/1680.html


> 不
> bù
> 副词。
> 用在动词、形容词和其它词前面表示否定或加在名词或名词性语素前面，构成形容词：不去。不多。不法。不料。不材（才能平庸，常用作自谦）。不刊（无须修改，不可磨灭）。不学无术。不速之客。
> 单用，做否定性的回答：不，我不知道。
> 用在句末表疑问：他现在身体好不？
> 没有
> 
> 不
> fǒu
> 古同“否”，不如此，不然。
> 没有


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## tzyy

twinklestar said:


> I beg to differ. '不' do have exact meaning. It indicates no. In your examples, actually, they can be read as:
> 
> 去不去？＝去，不去？(it is short for ＂（你，他，他们等等）去，还是不去？）
> 看不看？＝看，不看？？(it is short for ＂（你，他，他们等等）看，还是不看？）
> 
> You go, or don't go?
> 
> ＂不＂是实义词！


 
in a sentence, yes, in a phrase, it depends.


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## twinklestar

tzyy said:


> in a sentence, yes, in a phrase, it depends.


 
Does your explanation have any reliable source to prove your point?


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## tzyy

according to 辞海（1979版）, 不 has 5 meaning group, in the first, common one, it goes: 1. 表否定，如：不是，不能，不好；2.表禁止：不要，《孟子·滕文公上》：“病愈，我且往見，夷子不來。”；3.不到，未，《孟子·梁惠王上》：直不百步爾；4.非，不是《禮記·中庸》：茍不至德，至道不凝焉；5.無《左傳·襄公二十三年》：不德而有功；6.做語助，無義《詩·大雅·文王》：“帝命不時。”鄭玄箋：“不時，時也。”

second meaning group：讀音（pi 1）通丕
3rd：（讀音fou3）同否
4th：（讀音fu1）柎本字
5th：（讀音fou1）姓。

to sum up, you dun have to put each chinese character into a single meaning, it will cost you a lot of trouble.


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## twinklestar

tzyy said:


> in a word, when 不 is in a phrase, it means not. while 无（無） is no.
> 
> there is more about 不 I want to talk about here~
> 
> you may see sth like this in your further study:去不去，走不走，看不看，讀不讀，吃不吃，行不行 etc.
> 
> this means wether to go or not, or to see or not, read or not, eat or not, and the last one means"is that ok?"
> 
> in this case, 不 is a part of the phrase, and the phrase is inseparable. These are just expressions, and* 不 here has no exact meaning, just indicates that it is a phrase about question*.


 
I mean what reliable source or what dictionary can stand for your point that you said 不 in this context has no exact meaning?

How do you sum up?


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## tzyy

maghanish2 said:


> 謝謝 tzyy.
> 
> Then, is the phrase 看不看 sort of like saying "to look at or not look at"? So could it be translated as "do you look after?"?
> 
> I hope I undersatnd. For example, I've heard before 懂不懂 and I've been told it means "Do you understand". So does it literally mean "understand, not understand?"?
> 
> Thanks again for the help!


 
the second example is right, X不X means "X or not", in most case X is a verb. I think that might be easier for you to understand. and you know, in chinese a verb, for instance 看, has more than one mean, for example, 看不看 = watch or not, look or not. I think the second one "look or not" is less used. hope that helps. 

btw, by 不 and 无, twinklestar's explaination is good in daily chinese. you might be a little confused on idioms or sayings with these two words. you might consider buy a good dicitionary in case of that “emergency”~


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## tzyy

twinklestar said:


> I mean what reliable source or what dictionary can stand for your point that you said 不 in this context has no exact meaning?
> 
> How do you sum up?


 
by the mean I listed?


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## tzyy

*H*ah kidding, by life experience. *A*nd mostly, daily life experience. dun *Don't* dig too deep buddy. *N*o one can sum up a language, they develop as the time goes by, I just sum up for easier understanding. *A*nd dun *don't* use internet dicitionary when you learning or teaching language, it's not convincable.


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## tzyy

去不去，走不走，看不看，讀不讀，吃不吃，行不行
去麼     走麼      看麼     讀麼    吃麼      行麼

*just indicates that it is a phrase about question*


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## twinklestar

tzyy said:


> 去不去，走不走，看不看，讀不讀，吃不吃，行不行
> 去麼 走麼 看麼 讀麼 吃麼 行麼
> 
> *just indicates that it is a phrase about question*


 
Yep. But 不 has exact meaning in the sentence. 不 is an adverb here. As far as I learned, not a grammar book tells that adverbs as 实义词 have *not* exact meaning as you pointed out.


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## tzyy

twinklestar said:


> Yep. But 不 has exact the meaning in the sentence. 不 is an adverb here. As far as I learned, not a grammar book tells that adverbs as 实义词 have *not* exact meaning as you pointed out.


 and this notional word can be replaced by a modal particle because? the linguistic function is equal here right? I might use a little un-grammartical way of explain that kind of phrase, but i think that easier~
Chinese is a fuzzy language, there is no single word exact, it's not like english, what good chinese is the chinese most people don't say bad, as the same of good english right? so I'm just provide a easier way for better understanding.

Let's just say, you're right, and mine is eaiser.


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## twinklestar

> tzyy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese is a fuzzy language, there is no single word exact, it's not like english, what good chinese is the chinese most people don't say bad,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I beg to differ about what you proclaimed above, especially the part I highlighted in red.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say, you're right, and mine is eaiser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's just say I am right, and *you think* yours is easier.
> 
> No offense. All right, I wouldn't like to follow up! Let's agree at disagree.
Click to expand...


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## tzyy

ok~ I don't mean any offence, hand shake?


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## twinklestar

tzyy said:


> ok~ I don't mean any offence, hand shake?


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## xiaolijie

Ok, twinklestar and tzyy, let a non-native help solving your disagreement :

One the one hand, as tzyy wanted to say, the 不-phrase as in 去不去，看不看，吃不吃，行不行, etc. does indeed function as an empty word (虚词) _in turning a statement into a question, the same way as 吗 does_:
你去不去？ = 你去吗？
你看不看？ = 你看吗？
行不行？= 行吗？
etc.

On the other, it can't be denied that _the 不-phrase in these instances does retain its lexical meaning (实义），_ and the variation can still be interpreted literally as “X还是不X” (doX or not doX/ beX or not beX), as twinklestar was trying to say:
你去不去？ = 你去还是不去？
你看不看？ = 你看还是不看？ 
行不行？= 行还是不行？
etc.

So you see, both of you can still be correct, even if you look at the question from slightly different angles


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## guaguaboy

As far as I've dedicated in learning English for these years, to me, 不：means NO, like in the case of Yes or No. Nevertheless, 無：will mean "There is no..."
In my opinion, this is the difference ... lol

Robbie


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