# How Do You Say That Someone Is Very Nice?



## RhoKappa

There seems to be an error in my textbook. In a dialogue, a person is asking for a referral to a good dentist. Ira is very scared of dentists, but Valera assures her that his dentist is nobody to be afraid of.

Ира: Можно взять её ноиер телефона?
Валера: Да, вот. Она тебе понравится. Она очень симпатичная.

In context, the doctor is a female doctor and very gentle with patients. Hence, симпатичная. My textbook literally translates Valera's line as, "Yes, here you go. You will like her. She is very nice."

In this context, I understand that симпатичная means nice, kind, and tender. However, when speaking to Russian people the word симпатичная creates much confusion. As they explain to me, симпатичная means visually beautiful. However, this definition is contrary to the dialogue I cited above.

Question #1: Does симпатичная mean visually beautiful in all contexts? In other words, is my textbook wrong to have written it this way?

Question #2: How does one say in Russian that a woman is nice?

By "nice," I mean very kind and with a good heart, like Mother Teresa. Would it be correct to say, "Mother Teresa очень симпатична," or would people laugh at me because she is far from симпатичная?


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## Anatoli

RhoKappa said:


> There seems to be an error in my textbook. In a dialogue, a person is asking for a referral to a good dentist. Ira is very scared of dentists, but Valera assures her that his dentist is nobody to be afraid of.
> 
> Ира: Можно взять её номер телефона?
> Валера: Да, вот. Она тебе понравится. Она очень симпатичная.
> 
> In context, the doctor is a female doctor and very gentle with patients. Hence, симпатичная. My textbook literally translates Valera's line as, "Yes, here you go. You will like her. She is very nice."
> 
> In this context, I understand that симпатичная means nice, kind, and tender. However, when speaking to Russian people the word симпатичная creates much confusion. As they explain to me, симпатичная means visually beautiful. However, this definition is contrary to the dialogue I cited above.
> 
> Question #1: Does симпатичная mean visually beautiful in all contexts? In other words, is my textbook wrong to have written it this way?
> 
> Question #2: How does one say in Russian that a woman is nice?
> 
> By "nice," I mean very kind and with a good heart, like Mother Teresa. Would it be correct to say, "Mother Teresa очень симпатична," or would people laugh at me because she is far from симпатичная?



Your textbook seems wrong. The word симпатичная (f) means pretty or beautiful, in certain contexts one can say "он/она мне очень симпатичен/симпатична". He/she appeals to me, which may be of character, not visually.

To say "nice" of people, use добрый/добрая.

Мать Тереза очень добр*а*/д*о*брая (добросерд*е*чная). If you used симпатична(я), I would say you mean she is pretty.


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## Ptak

Она очень *милая*.


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## Anatoli

Yes, милый/милая is OK but it needs clarification as it has a few meanings of "nice", including "pretty":
1. dear, sweet (having a pleasing disposition)
2. cute, sweet (looking pretty)
3. kind, kind-hearted, nice
"Она очень *милая*" sounds to me (without any context) as "she is pretty/cute" more than "she is nice/kind".


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## Ptak

Anatoli said:


> "Она очень *милая*" sounds to me (without any context) as "she is pretty/cute" more than "she is nice/kind".


I strongly disagree. "*Милая/милый*" means almost the same as English "nice" and usually that's how they translate "someone is very nice" in movies and so on.
As for the meaning "pretty", it's the word "*миленькая/миленький*" what means that, not "*милая*". I would never say "Она такая милая" if I mean that "she" is pretty!


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## WordOrder

> Does симпатичная mean visually beautiful in all contexts?


I think yes. This is the kind of a look rating. For a man it means that a woman is visual attractive for him and vice versa. We also can say than some child is _симпат́ичный_ meaning that he is pretty nice. We can say that to make a compliment for his parents for example.

In your case I think that Valera is just kidding changing the concepts of the dentist's visual attraction for him and her proffesional attraction for his girlfriend.
́





> How does one say in Russian that a woman is nice?


Do you mean only  women or still men too? A man can be very kind and with a good heart too, can't he?

_В́ася ́очень д́обрый — Vasya is very kind._
_М́аша таќая м́илая — Masha is pretty nice._
_Вал́ера л́юбит подшут́ить, но с́ердце у неѓо д́оброе — Valera is fond of a joke but he has a big heart. _
_Ир́инка ́очень м́иленькая, хоть и трус́иха — Irinka is pretty cute although she's a coward.

_


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## Anatoli

Ptak said:


> I strongly disagree. "*Милая/милый*" means almost the same as English "nice" and usually that's how they translate "someone is very nice" in movies and so on.
> As for the meaning "pretty", it's the word "*миленькая/миленький*" what means that, not "*милая*". I would never say "Она такая милая" if I mean that "she" is pretty!


Beg to differ. Suffice to say the word has a few meanings, originally "likeable" or "lovable". Any doubts, check the context in the Russian literature or any other online material. I already said what I think of, if someone says, "Она очень *милая*", if you personally don't use it this way. I already said it was OK but people DO use "милая/милый" meaning "pretty" and the author of the tread may want to know this.

--
The word is also used as a form of address, instead of _дорогой/дорогая_, it sounds more affectionate then.


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## Ptak

Anatoli said:


> I already said it was OK but people DO use "милая/милый" meaning "pretty"


In Russia, I've never heard this word used this way. If you say people DO use the word meaning "pretty", can you provide an example please? Say, from Russian literature, as you said above. I mean, modern literature. Because yes, if Tolstoy writes "она была очень мила", it does mean "she was very pretty", but nowadays no one speaks like that. Also, "мила" and "милая" are not the same. If I were to read in Tolstoys novel "она была очень мила*я*", I would think that she was nice, not pretty.


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## Anatoli

Sorry, this is too obvious, I don't think I have to provide examples to fellow native speaker (you can do it yourself), although I did check and found many references where people used "милая" when discussing girls' appearances (this day and age, of course), so do I, I use this word personally in this sense. If you check yourself, the context (appearance) is too obvious. This thread is not about this word, anyway, so I don't think I need to try to prove anything.

Ptak, please don't try to challenge everything your fellow foreros say, everyone has their own experiences and we can help Russian learners better by cooperating. I am a native Russian speaker and my opinion counts as does yours. Also, please consider how it feels when you are challenged when you are only trying to help someone and this is not the first time you do it towards me.


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## cyanista

This might seem like a daring theory but it _seems_ to me that I've mostly heard "милая девушка" meaning "a nice-looking, attractive girl" from men, not from women. Does someone share this experience? 

Without further context I would think that "милая" refers to the character and behaviour - polite, friendly, kind, soft-spoken etc. etc.


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## dec-sev

cyanista said:


> This might seem like a daring theory but it _seems_ to me that I've mostly heard "милая девушка" meaning "a nice-looking, attractive girl" from men, not from women. Does someone share this experience?


This might seem like a daring theory but it _seems_ to me that I've mostly heard "милый парень" meaning "a nice-looking, attractive mаn" from women men, not from men.  


cyanista said:


> Does someone share this experience?


 Да, и если бы слово "милый" означало бы только "внутренние качества" (friendly, kind, soft-spoken), то женщины его бы слышали от женщин также часто, как и от мужчин, и наоборот. 


cyanista said:


> Without further context I would think that "милая" refers to the character and behaviour - polite, friendly, kind, soft-spoken etc. etc.


Я не понимаю, почему в словарь никто не догадался посмотреть. Надеюсь Ушаков не устарел, как Толстой.



RhoKappa said:


> Ира: Можно взять её ноиер телефона?
> Валера: Да, вот. Она тебе понравится. Она очень симпатичная.
> 
> In context, the doctor is a female doctor and very gentle with patients. Hence, and she is also симпатичная. My textbook literally translates Valera's line as, "Yes, here you go. You will like her. She is very nice." good-looking.


Одно другому не мешает  Я тоже считаю, что в тексте ошибка. Вопрос только в каком слове (английском или русском). Всё зависит от того, что именно хотел сказать Валера.


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## RhoKappa

WordOrder said:


> _В́ася ́очень д́обрый — Vasya is very kind._
> _М́аша таќая м́илая — Masha is pretty nice._
> _Вал́ера л́юбит подшут́ить, но с́ердце у неѓо д́оброе — Valera is fond of a joke but he has a big heart. _
> _Ир́инка ́очень м́иленькая, хоть и трус́иха — Irinka is pretty cute although she's a coward._


How did you add the stress marks to the Cyrillic text?  I would love to know how to do that.  For now, I can only switch between English and Russian keyboard.


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## RhoKappa

OK, ребята. Let me reproduce more of the dialogue from my textbook. Forgive me for any misspellings because I am typing it manually.

УРОК 21
Лечение Зубов

В буфете

Ира: Ой, мамочка!
Валера: Что с тобой?
Ира: У меня зуб болит всю неделю. Я ничего не могу есть!
Валера: Ты должна пойти к зубному врачу.
Ира: Ты прав, но я боюсь. В прошлый раз мне было очень больно. Ты не знаешь хорошего зубного врача?
Валера: Да, в самом деле, я знаю опытного врача, который равотает очень осторожно.
Ира: Можно взять её номер телефона?
Валера: Да, вот. Она тебе понравится. Она очень симпатичная.
....

As you can clearly read in the dialogue, Ира is very afraid of the dentist, and Валера is making a sincere suggestion to help pacify her fears. Based on my experience of incorrect usage of симпатичная, and from what I have read so far in this thread, it seems to me that my textbook is very wrong here. However, because this is a Russian language textbook I find it hard to believe that the Russian editors have overlooked this mistake. Why do I feel this way? Because each lesson in this textbook has an audio portion with native Russian speakers reading it aloud. If I were one of the native speakers in the dialogue, I would have objected to using the word симпатичная if I would agree with this thread.

For now, let us assume that the editors of this Russian textbook did not overlook the mistake. Given what I have entered so far, perhaps there is a better understanding of the context. Could there be be a misunderstanding here, that perhaps some local Muscovite slang was used?

The consensus so far indicates a simple diction error in the textbook. I still wonder why the native speakers still read the script in the dialogue.

Question: if you were the editor of this textbook, how would you correct Валера's last line in the dialogue?


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## dec-sev

RhoKappa said:


> As you can clearly read in the dialogue, Ира is very afraid of the dentist, and Валера is making a sincere suggestion to help pacify her fears. Based on my experience of incorrect usage of симпатичная, and from what I have read so far in this thread, it seems to me that my textbook is very wrong here.


I don’t see anything wrong here. Valera has already said that the doctor is опытный and работает очень осторожно. The fact that she is симпатичная is, in my opinion, an additional information.


> If I were one of the native speakers in the dialogue, I would have objected to using the word симпатичная


Well, if a person is going to see a dentist, his or her appearance is the last thing he is thinking about  But it's not the reason not to use the word in the dialog. It's a text-book after all. My be the author just wanted you to learn a new word.  




> Could there be be a misunderstanding here, that perhaps some local Muscovite slang was used?


 I’m not from Moscow, but I don’t think so.



> I still wonder why the native speakers still read the script in the dialogue.


 I’m not sure to have understood you here. Do you mean “Why haven’t they learned it by heart?”?




> Question: if you were the editor of this textbook, how would you correct Валера's last line in the dialogue?


I would correct the English translation.




> Валера: Да, в самом деле, я знаю опытного врача, который равотает очень осторожно.
> Ира: Можно взять её номер телефона?


Back to your question if I were the editor. I don't understand what made Ira think that the dentist was a woman.


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## WordOrder

> I don't understand what made Ira think that the dentist was a woman.


I though about that too. May be Ira has extrasensory perception.

And therefore…


> …how would you correct Валера's last line in the dialogue?


_
Ира: Можно взять её номер телефона?
Валера: Да, вот.  А как ты догадалась, чтот мой зубной врач — женщина?_


> The fact that she is симпатичная is, in my opinion, an additional information.


Yes, but it doesn't relate to the logic of the conversation.


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## Ptak

Anatoli said:


> Ptak, please don't try to challenge everything your fellow foreros say, everyone has their own experiences and we can help Russian learners better by cooperating. I am a native Russian speaker and my opinion counts as does yours. Also, please consider how it feels when you are challenged when you are only trying to help someone and this is not the first time you do it towards me.


Well, since the moderator didn't remove this off topic, I'll reply to that.
Firstly, I don't try "to challenge everything foreros say" and don't dispute that everyone has their own experiences. Secondly, my experience tells me that those native speakers who left Russia and live in an foreign-speaking environment, one way or another, don't possess Russian as good as those who live in the Russian-speaking environment. I noticed that a lot of times. People start to make very strange mistakes and start to use unnatural sentences/word order/expressions and so on.
I was not going to say that, but you asked yourself.

*<...>*


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## cyanista

dec-sev said:


> This might seem like a daring theory but it _seems_ to me that I've mostly heard "милый парень" meaning "a nice-looking, attractive mаn" from women men, not from men.



 Excellent answer!

In fact, women do aknowledge other women's attractivity (even if often grudgingly  ) and in my experience they are not likely to say "милая" but rather "хорошенькая", "привлекательная" or "симпатичная". The continuation of my daring theory is that "милая" is a sort of a harmless word that can be used to camouflage or downplay physical attraction.


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## PoliglotESSE

Try "приятная". It's a very simple and common word that perfectly suits to the situation described.


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## RhoKappa

dec-sev said:


> Back to your question if I were the editor. I don't understand what made Ira think that the dentist was a woman.


That was an error on my part.  The original text read его, but in my mind I made the correction to eё because I knew beforehand that the dentist in question was a woman.


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## Anatoli

Ptak said:


> ...Secondly, my experience tells me that those native speakers who left Russia and live in an foreign-speaking environment, one way or another, don't possess Russian as good as those who live in the Russian-speaking environment. I noticed that a lot of times. People start to make very strange mistakes and start to use unnatural sentences/word order/expressions and so on.
> I was not going to say that, but you asked yourself.


Firstly, you don't have to leave Russia to be bad at Russian, secondly, not all people who leave forget their language so much that it becomes unnatural. For me linguistics is a hobby and my former profession and I never stopped using Russian or communicating in Russian. Other posters already proved that милый/милый can mean "pretty", the dictionary link is the main proof. It doesn't have to be used and not everybody uses it, that's true but it's not a reason to say that this usage is unnatural. I already said that the word has a few meanings and all of them are used.

You insisted on more proof from my side. Here are phrases taken from the internet, where it's obvious they talk about the appearance.



> ...Молоденькая она очень милая, но переносица гораздо шире чем сейчас...





> ...вот и впалые щеки..а так она очень милая девушка...


(_some contradiction but still referring to "pretty"_)



> ...Очаровашка!!!! Она очень милая получилась!...





> ...но она очень милая,прям такой ребеночек с круглыми щечками...





> ...Внешне она очень милая...



Will you insist that people who said left Russia long ago and this is all unnatural?


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## Ptak

Anatoli, _милая *внешне*_ and just _милая_ are not the same thing. "Милая *внешне*" is "nice *looking*". In the _Милая *получилась* _the получилась is also an additional context which means that we are talking about looking in a photo. All other examples, too, contain an addidional context which means it's about appearance.

I don't dispute with the dictionary, but the second meaning "2. Приятный на вид, доставляющий удовольствие" provide such examples as "милое *личико*" (nice face), "милый *вид*" (nice appearance). Of course in such a context it does mean "pretty". It's like in English, if you say "nice face" or "nice appearance", it would mean "pretty face" and "pretty appearance". But without such a context, the first meaning of the word "милый" is "nice", "pleasant", not "pretty". And I don't understand why you say that "she's very nice" should be translated as "она очень *добрая*" (she's very kind), while the "classical" Russian version of the phrase would be "она очень *милая*" which perfectly fits any context and means exactly the same as the English sentence.


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## Anatoli

Ptak said:


> ..And I don't understand why you say that "she's very nice" should be translated as "она очень *добрая*" (she's very kind), while the "classical" Russian version of the phrase would be "она очень *милая*" which perfectly fits any context and means exactly the same as the English sentence.


I already explained but here's the reason, which is best described with the translation into English.
*nice* = _good_ (any aspect), if you talk about person, a good (nice) person is kind (добрый), rather unambiguous. She is *nice *to me - она *добра *ко мне.
*милый* = _likeable_, _easy to like_, _dear, sweet_ - the original and the main meaning. Usually a likeable person can be both about the appearance and the internal qualities, which makes this choice _acceptable (translation of "she is nice") but more ambiguous_ _and requiring some explanations._ All other meanings are derived from this - both kind and pretty, depending on the speaker. Once again, I insist that "она очень *милая*" may mean both "she is very nice/kind" and "she is very pretty/attractive", if translated back into English. It's sufficient if some people have this feeling of ambiguity, even if some never use both senses. Classical or modern Russian, spoken or written.

That was all I wanted to say in my original post, just some explanation, not a challenge. I think we should now back off or move the discussion about *милый*  into a new thread.


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## REOM

Да ну, говорить о враче, что она очень милая (или тем более симпотичная) и подрузамевать nice..... Почему просто не сказать она очень приятный человек и тд....


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## Andrey05

RhoKappa said:


> Ира: Можно взять её ноиер телефона?
> Валера: Да, вот. Она тебе понравится. Она очень симпатичная.
> 
> In context, the doctor is a female doctor and very gentle with patients. Hence, симпатичная. My textbook literally translates Valera's line as, "Yes, here you go. You will like her. She is very nice."
> 
> In this context, I understand that симпатичная means nice, kind, and tender. However, when speaking to Russian people the word симпатичная creates much confusion. As they explain to me, симпатичная means visually beautiful. However, this definition is contrary to the dialogue I cited above.
> 
> ...
> 
> By "nice," I mean very kind and with a good heart, like Mother Teresa. Would it be correct to say, "Mother Teresa очень симпатична," or would people laugh at me because she is far from симпатичная?


 
Good question, RhoKappa. I think the example you have uses a textbook definition of the word *симпатичный*. For instance, Efremova's dictionaty defines it as 

*СИМПАТИЧНЫЙ *прил. 

Вызывающий симпатию (1*1), располагающий к себе (о человеке).
So defined, *симпатичный* indeed means nice, kind, pleasant, or perhaps sympathetic (if it is used in this sense in English). Here is an example from gramota.ru:

_Человек же он для меня интересный, а раз интересный, то и симпатичный... Г. Семенов. Приятная привычка.
_

But I agree with other forum members that the modern colloquial meaning of симпатичный is more specific: pretty, good-looking, attractive. Only in the short form can it be used in the textbook meaning: saying

Мне *симпатичен* Дмитрий Медведев. / Я ему симпатизирую.

you will be understood as: you like Medvedev as a person, back his ideas, think he has the right intentions and policy etc. However, 

По-моему, Дмитрий Медведев симпатичный.

will mean 'I find DM good-looking'.


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## Sobakus

Anatoli said:


> Usually a likeable person can be both about the appearance and the internal qualities, which makes this choice _acceptable (translation of "she is nice") but more ambiguous_ _and requiring some explanations._ All other meanings are derived from this - both kind and pretty, depending on the speaker. Once again, I insist that "она очень *милая*" may mean both "she is very nice/kind" and "she is very pretty/attractive", if translated back into English. It's sufficient if some people have this feeling of ambiguity, even if some never use both senses. Classical or modern Russian, spoken or written.



I fully agree with that. To me the word милая doesn't mean something certain, but rather paints a picture of a pleasant and attractive - both "externally" and "internally" - person. More specific meaning depends on the context, for example, милая девушка is more "external" and милый парень - more "internal" to me.


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## Andrey05

Sobakus said:


> I fully agree with that. To me the word милая doesn't mean something certain, but rather paints a picture of a pleasant and attractive - both "externally" and "internally" - person. More specific meaning depends on the context, for example, милая девушка is more "external" and милый парень - more "internal" to me.


 
Right, but I agree with REOM and would not say 'милая' about a dentist... 'милая' is way too personal for describing a doctor. Приятная, располагающая к себе, etc will do a lot better.


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