# بـ / في



## Anne58

Hello,

I am having some confusing on when to use these propositions to correspond to the english word "at" - understanding that in english we can interchange the word and still have essentially the same meaning

To say: We searched for the boy _at_ the park (We searched for the boy _in_ the park - which means essentially the same)

بحثنا عن الولد بالملعب
بحثنا عن الولد في الملعب

Is one more acceptable than the other?

She sat at the table - would this be the proper way to say this?

جلست بالطاولة

Thanks


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## ayed

Anne58 said:


> *بحثنا عن الولد بالملعب*(_it seems as if the park or playground were a tool used to find that boy.It is a mere persoanl interpretation_)
> *بحثنا عن الولد في الملعب*





> Is one more acceptable than the other?(_The second one is more acceptable)_





> She sat at the table - would this be the proper way to say this?


جلست بالطاولةSome people may use the preposition _*on*_ جلست _*على*_ الطاولةto mean _*at the table*_

I hope this helps


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## Muwahid

Ayed, I see a lot of times بــ is given a more appropriate translation of "by" instead of "in", and of course sometimes it's interchangeable with fee. Would this be the case here? بالمعلب sounds more like "by the playground" instead of "in the playground" to your ears?


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## ayed

Yes, either way.As I said above, I, for one, prefer *في*  to *بـ* though the latter baa connotes "in".


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## Milad__7

جلست إلى الطاولة is the correct way I believe.


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## psxws

Milad__7 said:


> جلست إلى الطاولة is the correct way I believe.



Do you mean على?


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## Milad__7

No, I mean إلى 
there are other examples like إزاء (izaa) that maybe used as;
قف إزاء الحائط أو الجدار 
also إلى جانب, 
أقف إلى جانب السيارة
using على in جلست على الطاولة means "I sat ON the table" which can be sarcastic
but we can say جلست على الكرسي


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## Amr Diab

Guys please note using بـ or فـ
such as 
جلست فى المنزل
او
جلست بالمنزل
it's exactly the same meaning , there is no even a bit different
it's geographical issue 
egyptains usually use ف
when tunisian usually use ب

use what you want , no problem


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## jmt356

[Moderataor's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Use of في and بـ

As I mentioned at post 2549612 at http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2549612&highlight=في+ب, I had a Syrian tell me that في and بـ were absolutely synonymous and interchangeable. It became clear to me that this was not true, as other posters indicated, for example, that بـ was to be used after اِتّصل (_e.g._, اِتصل بصاحبه ) and في could only be used in certain contexts (_e.g._, اِتصل في وقت لاحق).

Yet since then, I still have difficulty determining when to use في and when to use بـ, since both translate into English roughly as “in.”

Is there a general rule that anyone can offer to determine when one should be used over the other?


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## ZeeshanParvez

Well if you want to use it with with a verb you can usually look up the verb in a dictionary and see what preposition the dictionary indicates can be used with the Verb and what it would mean. For example, for the verb you indicated the dictionary clear indicates that using bi means to join or link with something.
If you want to use a a preposition and the dictionary does not indicate how to use it with the verb then it is best that you understand the concepts of each preposition rather then their mere translations. 
For example, Fii is used to designate being inside something in either space or time. Hence you can be in a moment or in a house. Bi on the other hand is used to when you want to indicate that something is used as an instrument to fulfill a task which usually translates to "with or by" in English. These are just a few examples to show you that by understanding the general cause of why a preposition is used as opposed to its mere translation in English you will be in a better position to use them correctly. Hope that helps.


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## k8an

jmt356 said:


> Is there a general rule that anyone can offer to determine when one should be used over the other?


If you're asking about the word "in" in dialects:

Lebanese = ب
Syrian/Jordanian/Palestinian = I think they can use both but I have a feeling ب is more common (I could be wrong)
Egyptian = في or ف
Gulf = في
Maghreb = في
Iraqi = ب

This is at least my impression.


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## Hemza

^Sorry, but you're wrong, they both exists in all dialects. "ب" can also means "with" and not only "in".


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## k8an

In a way.

But you would ever hear انا فالبيت in Lebanon, whereas in Egypt that is exactly what you would hear. You exclusively hear انا بالبيت in Lebanon. The same goes for Iraq.

If we're talking about meanings other than "in", then you're right. Eg فيك تعمل... (You can do...) etc.


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## Hemza

Oh, right sorry, sorry you were speaking about "in" only. You're right about Lebanon (first time I told "fi" to my Lebanese friend, he was like: "what?"). But in Maghreb, both are used (not in the same context).


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## pekka123

[Moderataor's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hello,
أنونيموس تسرب بيانات أكثر من ألف من مسؤولي قمة المناخ *بباريس*

سرّب قراصنة تفاصيل تسجيل الدخول الخاصة بما يقرب من 1,415 مسؤولًا في محادثات الأمم المتحدة للمناخ* في باريس* كاحتجاج واضح ضد اعتقال النشطاء في المدينة.

In these two sentences why is bi used in the first sentence and in the second sentence fî is used, what is the difference between them?. Can we use them interchangeably?


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## kloie

Someone already asked this question a few years ago I think (b)-at,with,by and (fee)-in.


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## barkoosh

Yes they can be used interchangeably for place. There's no difference between them in such contexts.


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## elroy

[Moderataor's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hello!

This is something I've been curious about for a while.  In MSA, is it okay to use بـ to mean في, or is this due to colloquial interference?

For example, are the following sentences okay?

أخي يسكن بباريس
المعلم هو المسؤول بالصف
بالكثير من الأحيان تكون المشاكل أبسط مما نتصور

Personally, I avoid using بـ this way, regularly opting for في instead, but I do see this use of بـ more than occasionally - particularly in Egyptian texts - so I'm wondering if بـ is a valid alternative to في, if this use is due to colloquial interference, or if it is perhaps restricted to certain regions (i.e. if it's yet another regional MSA difference).

What do you think?


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## be.010

Hi Elroy,

Generally, بـِ is a valid alternative to في, and is used so even in Classical Arabic. The only exception is when it could be confused with one of its other meanings - of course.

About the sentences: I've never heard بالكثير من الأحيان, but I think basically there's nothing wrong about it. The other examples are totally fine.


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## Ali Smith

In the Egyptian dialect both ب and في are used and they are _not_ interchangeable. Thus, you would say بيروح المكتب بالعربية 'He goes to the office by car." and هو بيدرس في مدرسة 'He studies in a school.'

It would be wrong to interchange them and say بيروح المكتب في العربية and هو بيدرس بمدرسة.

However, in the Levantine dialect في does not exist, so you have to use ب in both expressions:

بيروح المكتب بالعربية
هو بيدرس بمدرسة


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## elroy

Ali Smith said:


> in the Levantine dialect في does not exist


 Wrong, it does.  You need to start being much less confident when making claims about Arabic, as you are often wrong. 


Ali Smith said:


> بيروح المكتب بالعربية


 This is not a Levantine sentence regardless of the preposition used.


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## Ali Smith

I stand humbly corrected.


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## cherine

Ali Smith said:


> It would be wrong to interchange them and say بيروح المكتب في العربية and هو بيدرس بمدرسة.


I don't want to look like we're ganging up on you, but I think this should be corrected. It's true we don't say بيدرس بـ (we say بيدرس/بيتعلم في), but we do say بيروح الشغل في عربيته/في الأوتوبيس/في القَطْر just as well as بيروح بعربيته/بالأوتوبيس/بالقطر.


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## Ali Smith

Now I understand why it's الجامعة الأمريكية في القاهرة but الجامعة الأمريكية ببيروت.

cherine & elroy: Thank you! Please continue to correct me in the future. إنما شفاء العي السؤال


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## elroy

Ali Smith said:


> Now I understand why it's الجامعة الأمريكية في القاهرة


 The name of the university is in MSA, not in Egyptian Arabic, so this doesn’t say anything about Egyptian Arabic usage.


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