# 那



## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> 那 [simply used to introduce a question in speech]...


Well, 这……in fact，我想说，“那”实在是个画蛇添足的口头禅吧……？

Moderator Note:
This thread has been branched from here to be a dedicated space for discussing 那.


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> 那 [simply used to introduce a question in speech] 客家話你講的是哪一種？


.
我倒能理解以下的說法:
A: 我在家只講客家話.
B: 那 [= 那麼 "then"--used as a *cohesive device* to link the previous statement with what is going to be said] 客家話你講的是哪一種？
==> 在這例子中, "那" 用來連貫 (to cohere), 而非引介 (to introduce)

這個 cohesive device 使對話更 "順" (連貫), 並非畫蛇添足. 缺少了它, 這對話聽起來就有點 choppy:
A:  我在家只講客家話.
B:  客家話你講的是哪一種？==> 問得有點突兀.


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## SimonTsai

And there is a question about '那' in another thread, where contents relating to '那' can be found in #7, #8, the first half of #9 and #10, and #11. Thank you for your reading.



Skatinginbc said:


> 用來連貫 (to cohere), 而非引介 (to introduce)


It seems to be a cohesive device introducing a question following on what was previously said.


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## Skatinginbc

SimonTsai said:


> there is a question about '那' in another thread (那，請問能不能給我們一壺茶？謝謝。)


In this example (那，請問能不能給我們一壺茶？), '那' is used to introduce a subject of conversation that is of present interest.  That is to say, its main function is _*subject introduction*_, especially in form of a question (rather than "_cohesion_", i.e., connecting with something that has been said).


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> I guess that I would make it a question and say, '那, 你要不要來這裏? 這裏有蔭.'


I've asked you about "那" in another thread but I forget... Why?


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## SimonTsai

It means very little and we say it in this case just to get the attention of the person (who's sitting in the sun). So here it's like '_Um, hey_' but it sounds softer.

*EDIT:* By '_Um_', I meant hesitation is implied. We are wondering if it is appropriate or intrusive to say so.


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## T.D

SimonTsai said:


> It means very little and we say it in this case just to get the attention of the person (who's sitting in the sun). So here it's like '_Um, hey_' but it sounds much softer.


It sounds like it's borrowed from Japenese？ 
我高中的时候有个女同学喜欢这么说话   ”呐，给你。“  
是这个”呐“吗？


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## SimonTsai

I am unsure of its origin, but yes, I guess that it is the '吶' that you typed. (It is worth noting that, in real life, we usually pronounce it 'ㄋㄜ 4' rather than 'ㄋㄚ 4'.)


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## T.D

SimonTsai said:


> *EDIT:* By '_Um_', I meant hesitation is implied. We are wondering if it is appropriate or intrusive to say so.


Now I see this, I would go with '那' too. (I guess it's short for 那么)

A：这次谁来做presentation？
B：上回是我做的。
A：那...这回轮到我了？


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## SimonTsai

To be honest, I find it hard to give an accurate and precise lexical definition. I know that hesitation is often implied, and I know that it is often used to get the attention of someone, but I'm unsure what it's short for. A note here is, girls seem to be more into it, though boys also say it.


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## SuperXW

T.D said:


> B：上回是我做的。
> A：那...这回轮到我了？


那, 你要不要來這裏? 這裏有蔭.

这不一样吧？
前者："那么/then"，连接词，必须有承接的内容（如“上回……”）。
后者：“呐/hello”，语气词，提示要开启一个（新）话题，不能换成“那么”。


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## T.D

I am thinking, what Simon suggested and what I guessed in #19 might not be the same thing.

In #7, I thought it was some sort of an exclamation. I happen to find a picture of it.


可以给我1块钱吗？ 呐呐…


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## Ghabi

T.D said:


> 我高中的时候有个女同学喜欢这么说话 ”呐，给你。“


So this is like what we say in Cantonese: 嗱(laa4/naa4)，畀你！  

This is used when you give someone something, or to draw someone's attention in general ("Hey listen").


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## SuperXW

所以建议把“那”和口字边的语气词区分开，我没见过用“那”的。


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## SimonTsai

T.D said:


> 可以给我 1 块钱吗？ 呐呐…


How would you pronounce '吶吶' in this case? I would imagine 'ㄋㄟ 4 [pause] ㄋㄟ 4'. (This one would sound very schoolgirlish and suggestive of '妹子' if pronounced so.)


Ghabi said:


> So this is like what we say in Cantonese: 嗱(laa4/naa4)，畀你！


I don't know any Cantonese, but good to know. If by that hesitation is suggested, then they are alike.


SimonTsai said:


> I am unsure of its origin, but yes, I guess that it is the '吶' that you typed.


Now I think about it, and I would say, it may have to do with '這個那個', and not really the same as the '吶' in post #7, as @T.D has already suggested.


SuperXW said:


> 所以建议把 “那” 和口字边的语气词 ("呐") 区分开，我没见过用 “那” 的。


I am not very surprised. The fact is that, I would probably not have learnt the Internet use of the mainland terms '樓主' and '帖子' if I had not ever read any of the discussions here; and that, even today, words like '給力', '中二' and '牛屄' still sound somewhat jarring to my ear. And that's regional differences, which sometimes can be very interesting.


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## T.D

SimonTsai said:


> How would you pronounce '吶吶' in this case?


I think I do go with na4.


SimonTsai said:


> I would imagine 'ㄋㄟ 4 [pause] ㄋㄟ 4'.


Sorry I can't read this...


SimonTsai said:


> (This one would sound very schoolgirlish and suggestive of '妹子' if pronounced so.)


Exactly. 大部分时候是小女生卖萌用的。


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## ovaltine888

*这不是TVB么？*​*“呐，做人呢，最重要的就是开心”*​


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## SuperXW

粤语存在这个语气词，香港写作"嗱"，内地写作“呐”，不是小女生专用。
我建议区分开是因为会和“那么then”的含义混淆。
所以Simon你的意思是你的“那”是台湾通用？都写作“那”？


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## SimonTsai

As previously said, '*那*' in post #5 does seem to be an abbreviation of the everyday filler '*那*個', which cannot be changed to '*吶*個', which is wrong. (It is possible to replace '*那*' with '*那*個' in post #5: '那個, 你要不要來這裏? 這裏有蔭.')


T.D said:


> Sorry I can't read this...


I actually meant 'ㄋㄝ 4' (or 'ne 4'), which has much to do with Japanese, I guess.


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## henter

ovaltine888 said:


> *这不是TVB么？*​*“呐，做人呢，最重要的就是开心”*​


I'd argue that no one would say this in reality; you only find this  on TVB.


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