# Persian: آقا و آغا



## seitt

Greetings

To sum up what we have established so far, I quote the one-volume Āryānpur Progressive Persian-English Dictionary:

آقا = sir, lord, chief, leader, master, boss; Mr., Mister, Esq., Esquire, Agha

آغا = lady, dame; eunuch, title of a eunuch

Please could you give some examples from history etc. of the use of آغا as part of the name of a lady, and also as part of the name of a eunuch? Please indicate all final kasres.

Also, are these two words pronounced exactly the same in Persian today?

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


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## Treaty

The most famous example of آغا is probably in the name of آغاباجی a high rank wife of فتحعلی شاه (his mother's name was also آغاباجی). If I'm not wrong باجی _bacı_ means "sister" in Turkish. 
However, it seems I was wrong in the case of آغا محمد خان in the other  thread. In Dehkhoda, it says آغا is also used for eunuchs. I'd thought  that people used آغا to make fun of him. However, I don't think he liked  it.

You can find other examples in related Dehkhoda's page.


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## IMANAKBARI

*C'est un archaïsme ! il ne s'utilise plus de nos jours.*
یک واژه کهنه و منسوخه ! دیگه کاربردی در زبان امروزی نداره


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## Qureshpor

Treaty said:


> The most famous example of آغا is probably in the name of آغاباجی a high rank wife of فتحعلی شاه (his mother's name was also آغاباجی). If I'm not wrong باجی _bacı_ means "sister" in Turkish.
> However, it seems I was wrong in the case of آغا محمد خان in the other  thread. In Dehkhoda, it says آغا is also used for eunuchs. I'd thought  that people used آغا to make fun of him. However, I don't think he liked  it.
> 
> You can find other examples in related Dehkhoda's page.


If it is of any help, this is what the two words mean in Urdu. You will appreciate that the usage of Persian words in Urdu is somewhat conservative and on the whole older meanings are preserved.

aaqaa: employer, lord, master, owner (aaqaa-o-maulaa: master, Lord/God)

aaGhaa: (archaic) title of respect for a chieftan  (noun); as courtesy title; respected, venerable

baajii in Urdu means sister.


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## SamiraFrancophile

and about the pronouncation:
yes, their pronounce is the same in Persian.


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## fdb

These words are indeed pronounced the same in most Persian dialects of Iran, but they are distinguished in the Persian of Afghanistan. Etymologically, they are the same word (the Turkish title ağa), but they have taken on different usages.


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## seitt

Many thanks, super!


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## darush

fdb said:


> These words are indeed pronounced the same in most Persian dialects of Iran,* but they are distinguished* in the Persian of Afghanistan.


 You mean that *غ* *and* *ق* are different in pronunciation in Persian of Afghanistan?


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## Qureshpor

darush said:


> You mean that *غ* *and* *ق* are different in pronunciation in Persian of Afghanistan?


Yes, aaqaa-ye-darush. In Afghanistan, Persian speakers pronounce Gh and q distinctly, as in Qur'an Arabic.


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## darush

Oh, I didn't know it before! Are you sure?


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## Qureshpor

darush said:


> Oh, I didn't know it before! Are you sure?


100.01%!


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## darush

QURESHPOR said:


> 100.01%!


Thank you!


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## Treaty

darush said:


> You mean that *غ* *and* *ق* are different in pronunciation in Persian of Afghanistan?


Not only in Afghanistan, but also some parts of Iran the pronunciation is different. I'm sure about some dialects of Khuzestan. I've been also informed that in Mashhadi accent the pronunciation differs though I've never heard it myself.


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## SamiraFrancophile

Treaty said:


> Not only in Afghanistan, but also some parts of Iran the pronunciation is different. I'm sure about some dialects of Khuzestan. I've been also informed that in Mashhadi accent the pronunciation differs though I've never heard it myself.



ِDo you exactly know which accent in Khuzestan pronounce it differently?


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## SamiraFrancophile

fdb said:


> These words are indeed pronounced the same in most Persian dialects of Iran, but they are distinguished in the Persian of Afghanistan. Etymologically, they are the same word (the Turkish title ağa), but they have taken on different usages.



would you please write their IPA pronounciation?


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## fdb

In Kabul ق is /q/, and غ is /γ/. So you have /ɒqɒ/ and /ɒγɒ/.


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## SamiraFrancophile

fdb said:


> In Kabul ق is /q/, and غ is /γ/. So you have /ɒqɒ/ and /ɒγɒ/.


thank you very much.


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## Treaty

SamiraFrancophile said:


> would you please write their IPA pronounciation?


Behbahani dialect (that is my own, though it has different accents within the vicinity). I had a Dezfuli friend who distinguished between the sounds but I can't generalise her pronunciation as Dezfuli dialect. An Ahvazi friend of mine (also with Dezfuli background) distinguished between ق and غ, however, he might have been influenced by Ahvazi Arabs.


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## SamiraFrancophile

Treaty said:


> Behbahani dialect (that is my own, though it has different accents within the vicinity). I had a Dezfuli friend who distinguished between the sounds but I can't generalise her pronunciation as Dezfuli dialect. An Ahvazi friend of mine (also with Dezfuli background) distinguished between ق and غ, however, he might have been influenced by Ahvazi Arabs.



Thank you Treaty. I asked it because we have some relatives from Khuzestan (Dezful and Ahwaz) and none of them differs between /q/, and/γ/ . 
As you said may be he is influenced by Arabs.


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## rc2

Treaty said:


> Not only in Afghanistan, but also some parts of Iran the pronunciation is different. I'm sure about some dialects of Khuzestan. I've been also informed that in Mashhadi accent the pronunciation differs though I've never heard it myself.



I have just been informed by QP-saahib that providing links to YT is not allowed in this forum.. My original reply here was that I have heard a modern/young poetess from Tehran who does distinguish between her "qaaf" and "Ghain" -- but having heard her only in a recital setting (mush'aira), I was wondering if the pronunciation was deliberate based on the event - and whether modern Persian simply dispenses with the distinction completely.

RC

PS: Sorry for having posted a YT link here, I have edited my post completely so as to remove the offending link.


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## Treaty

SamiraFrancophile said:


> Thank you Treaty. I asked it because we have some relatives from Khuzestan (Dezful and Ahwaz) and none of them differs between /q/, and/γ/ .
> As you said may be he is influenced by Arabs.


Actually, my family also lived in a part of Behbahan which was populated by Arab-based immigrants about two centuries ago. I think Mashhad also have an Arab neighbourhood around the Haram.


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