# una volta prese le misure



## Tommaso Gastaldi

Today I have met a friend of mine. It's always a pleasure to talk to him, as he knows the art of making very expressive his concepts.
I am really curious to know how would you render in English (no need to be literal) a sentence of him:

-> "Ho assunto un nuovo capo progetto. E' uno di questi tipi quadrati... parecchio *spigoloso*. Comunque, *una volta prese le misure*, si riesce ad andare d'accordo alla grande"

[in bold the funny construction  ]


PS I should probably add that the expression "*una volta prese le misure" *is accompanied by a gesture like a person who is measuring the dimensions of a box with his hands.


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## Elisa68

My attempt (just to give an idea to the natives) :
He is a sound man...very testy. Anyway, once you take the measure (literally for _once you get to know him_), you can get on well with him.


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## DAH

I hired a new project manager. He is one of those square types (socially inflexible or inaccessible) a bit "sketchy" (edgy/nervous or up-tight). Although, once you size him up (take his tempature--slang) . . . . one can get along with him fine.


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## moodywop

Penso che sarebbe meglio cambiare il titolo del _thread_. _Colourful speech _forse? 

Carlo


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## ElaineG

Non riesco a capire il senso di "un tipo quadrato".  Vuol dire "sound" (come ha detto *Elisa*) o "blocked, closed-in or inaccessible" (come ha detto *DAH)*?


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## moodywop

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Non riesco a capire il senso di "un tipo quadrato". Vuol dire "sound" (come ha detto *Elisa*) o "blocked, closed-in or inaccessible" (come ha detto *DAH)*?


 
Elaine

This is the definition in _De Mauro:_

3 agg. robusto, solido: _una corporatura quadrata_, _un ragazzo alto e q._ | *fig., equilibrato, assennato*: _una mente_, _una persona quadrata_, _un giovane intelligente e q._ 

Carlo


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## ElaineG

> "Ho assunto un nuovo capo progetto. *E' uno* di questi tipi quadrati... parecchio *spigoloso*. Comunque, *una volta prese le misure*, si riesce ad andare d'accordo alla grande"


 
grazie, *Carlo.*  Allora (my attempt):

I hired a new project manager.  He's a solid guy/good guy... if a little prickly/irritable/testy *(tm Elisa)**.*  But once you size him up (*tm Dah*)/figure him out/get where he's coming from, you can get along great/really well with him.


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## luke_77

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Non riesco a capire il senso di "un tipo quadrato". Vuol dire "sound" (come ha detto *Elisa*) o "blocked, closed-in or inaccessible" (come ha detto *DAH)*?


 
"Quadrato" is a kind of person very very conventional, who doesn't love to go out of his own patterns. [Don't know whether this sentence is correct and could render what I mean.]

Correction needed!!  

Luke


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## DAH

luke_77 said:
			
		

> "Quadrato" is a kind of person very very conventional, who doesn't love to go out of his own patterns. [Don't know whether this sentence is correct and could render what I mean.]
> 
> Correction needed!!
> 
> Luke


 
luke,
good input, then, i would amend to say:  he's rigid and/or inflexible with others.


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## luke_77

DAH said:
			
		

> luke,
> good input, then, i would amend to say: he's rigid and/or inflexible with others.


 
That's it! Correct DAH. Exactly what I mean..  

Luke


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## ElaineG

> "Quadrato" is a kind of person who is very very conventional, who doesn't like to (I'd suggest) deviate from his own patterns/step outside his routine.


 
Sarebbe "square" (letteralmente) in inglese, allora!

Maybe (returning to Tommaso's friend) "He's a solid guy, kind of square and a little testy...."


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## You little ripper!

I would say "Once you get to know him" instead of "sizing him up", "figure him out" or "get where he's coming from". It's more commonly used.


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## luke_77

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Sarebbe "square" (letteralmente) in inglese, allora!
> 
> Maybe (returning to Tommaso's friend) "He's a solid guy, kind of square and a little testy...."


 
Precious correction ragazza!

Luke


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

"Quadrato" in this case is a positive connotation, meaning someone serious, doing things well, precise...


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## luke_77

Non sempre è una connotazione positiva, in alcuni casi è un limite di una persona troppo "quadrata", ovvero poco flessibile e che non esplora altre vie se non le sue...

Opinione personale. 

Luke


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> "Quadrato" in this case is a positive connotation, meaning someone serious, doing things well, precise...


In that case I think Elaine's suggestion of "solid" would fit.  Or possibly reliable, dependable, trustworthy, level-headed.


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## DAH

t:
"It's always a pleasure to talk to him, as he knows the art to make very expressive his concepts."


ho una curiosità con riguardo all'arte delle parole del tuo amico?  è possibile che ci speigi?


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## lsp

Garzanti suggests *quadrato *is _*sensible, level-headed*_, which can be seen as solid and also as conservative & conventional, depending on the speaker.



> Today I have met a friend of mine. It's always a pleasure to talk to him, as he knows the art to make very expressive his concepts.
> I am really curious to know how would you render in English (no need to be literal) a sentence of hi*s*:


_he knows the art to make very expressive his concepts_ is quite clunky. Here are a few suggestions to make it smoother.
he expresses himself artfully
he knows how to express concepts artfully
he knows the art of expression
he is very expressive


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## lsp

moodywop said:
			
		

> Penso che sarebbe meglio cambiare il titolo del _thread_. _Colourful speech _forse?
> 
> Carlo


Yes, absolutely!!


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

(DAH: I didn't understand your question.)

-Yes probably I wanted "colorful", but when started the thread
that word did not show in my temporal lobe. The Italian I had in mind was: "Linguaggio colorito"

-A general remark for all the attempts. So far you have tried to render the meaning of the sentence (and strangely you have been focusing on some words like "quadrato" that are not essential to the verbal trick). 
But this is only the first step.

What would be really nice would be to succeed in rendering the scene my friend is evoking. My friend is talking about a person who is serious and likes to do the things in a certain (precise and methodic) way, that is, he is "quadrato". Then, he adds that he is also "*spigoloso*" (this describes a character sometimes not easy to deal with) and here starts the evocation. Spigoloso literally means he is "not smooth": like he had edges and vertices. This word immediately brings into our minds the image of a box or a cube. If you impact on a vertex or an edge of a cube you are likely to hurt yourself. And here comes the second part of the invention. While you still have in your mind the image of the cube, he says that if you "take well the measures", you can get along (so its is like if, having measured the cube you can avoid the edges and the vertices...).

Don't know if it makes sense... 

The challenge was to render this kind of verbal play in English...


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## moki

allora ci provo:

He's one of those square types, rough around the edges. However, once you  measure him up, you can get around that.

(get around that was my attempt at a visual of someone walking around a cube...I don't know if it works)


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Today I have met a friend of mine. It's always a pleasure to talk to him, as he knows the art of making very expressive his concepts.
> I am really curious to know how would you render in English (no need to be literal) a sentence of him:
> 
> -> "Ho assunto un nuovo capo progetto. E' uno di questi tipi quadrati... parecchio *spigoloso*. Comunque, *una volta prese le misure*, si riesce ad andare d'accordo alla grande"
> 
> [in bold the funny construction  ]
> 
> 
> PS I should probably add that the expression "*una volta prese le misure" *is accompanied by a gesture like a person who is measuring the dimensions of a box with his hands.


This is how I would translate it:

I've hired a new Project Manager.  He's a pretty level-headed guy.....but quite prickly.  However, when you get to know him, he really is quite easy to get on with.


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## moki

yes yes...but don't we want to keep the play on words?


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## jupa

moki said:
			
		

> allora ci provo:
> 
> He's one of those square types, rough around the edges. However, once you  measure him up, you can get around that.
> 
> (get around that was my attempt at a visual of someone walking around a cube...I don't know if it works)



Moki, great job! To me, it seems that you have successfully translated the sentence and did a great job with the play on words. I can't think of a better translation!


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Very nice. 

I can understand "rough around the edges" but I guess this is used idiomatically or figuratively, for the sentence to work in EN. 

Does it mean the same as "spigoloso" and can It be used to describe the character of a person?




			
				moki said:
			
		

> allora ci provo:
> 
> He's one of those square types, rough around the edges. However, once you measure him up, you can get around that.
> 
> (get around that was my attempt at a visual of someone walking around a cube...I don't know if it works)


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## DAH

"The challenge was to render this kind of verbal joke in English..."

Non penso che ci sia un "joke" in inglese. ma forse puoi ridere a questa:

Hired this okay guy who is meticulous.  But he's a bit of a "head case," so if I read him right I should be okay.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Can you explain the hilarious part?



			
				DAH said:
			
		

> "The challenge was to render this kind of verbal joke in English..."
> 
> Non penso che ci sia un "joke" in inglese. ma forse puoi ridere a questa:
> 
> Hired this okay guy who is meticulous. But he's a bit of a "head case," so if I read him right I should be okay.


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## DAH

se tu non sai che e' "head case,", immagina "loose cannon" piu o meno.


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## jupa

I don't think the aim was actually to be a "joke" in the sense of "HAHA! That's so funny." Instead, it was intended as a clever use of wording. 

Yes, by the way, "rough around the edges" is used to describe a person's character quite frequently. It means that sometimes they seem less than easy to get along with, but inside they're okay. I'm pretty sure it renders more or less the same idea as spigoloso.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

So then it's just perfect!

>clever use of wording
yes exactly. An expressive way of talking.

Or as said before (moki) "a play on words"



			
				jupa said:
			
		

> I don't think the aim was actually to be a "joke" in the sense of "HAHA! That's so funny." Instead, it was intended as a clever use of wording.
> 
> Yes, by the way, "rough around the edges" is used to describe a person's character quite frequently. It means that sometimes they seem less than easy to get along with, but inside they're okay. I'm pretty sure it renders more or less the same idea as spigoloso.


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## lsp

"Rough around the edges" is not the same as cantankerous or testy, and so I think it seems more like grezzo than spigoloso. What do others think?


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## ElaineG

> Rough around the edges" is not the same as cantankerous or testy, and so I think it seems more like grezzo than spigoloso. What do others think?


 
You read my mind, *lsp *(I was about to post something to that effect).  "Rough around the edges" suggests someone who is unrefined or unsophisticated in manner (or personal appearance), who lacks "polish".  It is not at all the same thing as prickly/testy.


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## jupa

Rethinking it all, I would have to agree with you guys. I was a little confused. Sorry about that.
Julia


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## You little ripper!

I agree with Lsp and Elaine that "rough around the edges" does not translate "spigoloso" well, which is why I translated it as "prickly" in post 22.


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## jupa

Then is "edgy" the best translation for both the meaning and the play on words? Does it mean exactly the same thing? Somehow, I'm doubting my logic.

-Julia


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## moki

jupa..."edgy" would be perfect in this sentence!!


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## You little ripper!

Actually edgy seems to fit quite well.


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## lsp

"Edgy" caveat: it can be ambiguous without context. It means both "tense, apprehensive, uptight" and "avant-garde, cutting edge, original."


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## You little ripper!

"Edgy" also means "prickly", according to the MSN Encarta dictionary.


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## lsp

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> "Edgy" also means "prickly", according to the MSN Encarta dictionary.


No dispute there. I was merely pointing out that that's not _all_ it means, and the sentence may/may not leave its intended meaning in doubt, depending on the final wording.


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## You little ripper!

lsp said:
			
		

> No dispute there. I was merely pointing out that that's not _all_ it means, and the sentence may/may not leave its intended meaning in doubt, depending on the final wording.


Of course!  I think tho' that the positive meanings of that word would be out because of what comes immediately after.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

So, let's see the final version!



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Of course! I think tho' that the positive meanings of that word would be out because of what comes immediately after.


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> So, let's see the final version!


Tommaso, I would still translate it the way I did in Post 22. Most English people, when they hear the word 'edgy' do not think of 'prickly' but the negative meanings of the word that Lsp mentioned. I personally think that "spigoloso" is best translated by "prickly" or "testy". Cantankerous is also a meaning for this word, but isn't used very often, and I think it would sound a little strange in this sentence.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Yes I understand, but I guess that if you could find a way to fit edgy or something similar which evoked the image of something like a cube or a box similar, you would be able to render effectively the word play.


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## mimitabby

luke_77 said:
			
		

> "Quadrato" is a kind of person very very conventional, who doesn't love to go out of his own patterns. [Don't know whether this sentence is correct and could render what I mean.]
> 
> Correction needed!!
> 
> Luke



Sounds like square to me! what you wrote is nearly perfect.
you would say "who doesn't like to break out of his own patterns"
someone who was a native speaker would say "he is not comfortable
doing new things" or he is "very set in his ways"


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## DesertCat

I would call this person stodgy.


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Yes I understand, but I guess that if you could find a way to fit edgy or something similar which evoked the image of something like a cube or a box similar, you would be able to render effectively the word play.


My final try: *"I have hired a new Project Manager. He is a conscientious guy, if somewhat edgy (prickly). Once you get to know him, he is really quite accessible".* (I've used the word 'accessible' here because it also has the meaning of being 'easy to get on with', but seems to fit better with the context).


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## jupa

But we're forgetting the play on words! I still like Moki's translation, substituting, "edgy" for "rough around the edges."


"He's one of those square types, somewhat edgy. However, once you  measure him up, you can get around that."


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## moki

jupa that's perfect...it keeps the play on words and "edgy" works much better than "rough around the edges"


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

If this does sound well in English, I think we are there. Ain't we?



			
				jupa said:
			
		

> But we're forgetting the play on words! I still like Moki's translation, substituting, "edgy" for "rough around the edges."
> 
> 
> "He's one of those square types, somewhat edgy. However, once you measure him up, you can get around that."


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> If this does sound well in English, I think we are there. Ain't we?


As Lsp and Elaine explained in Posts 31 and 32 "rough around the edges" does not translate from "spigoloso". Tommaso, you've become obsessed with the word 'edge'. Just because boxes have edges doesn't mean that you can translate "spigoloso" into that. "Rough around the edges" and "spigoloso" have two totally different meanings. 
I now give up! I, unfortunately, do not have Uinni's stamina.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Hi Charles, I am not sure why you are telling me that. I have never made that statement that "spigoloso = Rough around the edges". I could never say that. I know nothing about this word and, unfortunately, I am not able to judge the appropriateness of the words in English. You natives are the only ones who can to judge when we have reached the right compromise between rendering the play on words and maintaning a correspondence of meaning...



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> As Lsp and Elaine explained in Posts 31 and 32 "rough around the edges" does not translate from "spigoloso". Tommaso, you've become obsessed with the word 'edge'. Just because boxes have edges doesn't mean that you can translate "spigoloso" into that. "Rough around the edges" and "spigoloso" have two totally different meanings.
> I now give up! I, unfortunately, do not have Uinni's stamina.


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Hi Charles, I am not sure why you are telling me that. I have never made that statement that "spigoloso = Rough around the edges". I could never say that. I know nothing about this word and, unfortunately, I am not able to judge the appropriateness of the words in English. You natives are the only ones who can to judge when we have reached the right compromise between rendering the play on words and maintaning a correspondence of meaning...


In Post 30 you said, "So, it's just perfect then!" to a suggestion that "spigoloso" could be translated as "rough around the edges". I took that to mean that you agreed that it could be translated that way. I now realize that you are relying on natives and can only make a decision on the translation based purely on that. I'm really sorry about that. I didn't mean to offend you. It's so difficult communicating electronically. Emoticons do not express very well what the human voice does and I most certainly wasn't being rude, even if it may have come across that way.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I try in English:

Yes Charles, what I can do is to try to explain at my best what we mean by the italian words, but it's up to you then suggest the corresponding English ones.
Actually the word "spigoloso" hasn't a very sharp meaning in Italian (when referred to the character of a person). Literally it means "having edges and vertices" (edge is spigolo and vertice=A point on a polyhedron common to three or more sides) and for instance a piece of marble is "spigoloso". And I have noticed that even you natives do not totally agree on the variuos translation that have been proposed. My understanding of "spigoloso" is someone who does not appear, at least superficially, much open and jovial. The connotation is not necessarily negative. Could be one that only appears this way, however if you become his friend he is all another person and actually sweet and friendly. Spigoloso is not necessarily irritable ("irritabile"). To me has more a hue of a reserved and retiring nature than someone aggressive. Hovewer, sometimes his answers can be a little harsh especially if you do not approach him in the right way. I think it's quite hard to define, and probably different people might have a different understanding of this word...
Spigoloso is also a word that can be used to define the taste of a wine. It would probably be the contrary of "smooth"... although I would not be sure what it means that a wine is smooth !


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## You little ripper!

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I try in English:
> 
> Yes Charles, what I can do is to try to explain at my best what we mean by the italian words, but it's up to you then suggest the corresponding English ones.
> Actually the word "spigoloso" hasn't a very sharp meaning in Italian (when referred to the character of a person). Literally it means "having edges and vertices" (edge is spigolo and vertice=A point on a polyhedron common to three or more sides) and for instance a piece of marble is "spigoloso". And I have noticed that even you natives do not totally agree on the variuos translation that have been proposed. My understanding of "spigoloso" is someone who does not appear, at least superficially, much open and jovial. The connotation is not necessarily negative. Could be one that only appears this way, however if you become his friend he is all another person and actually sweet and friendly. Spigoloso is not necessarily irritable ("irritabile"). To me has more a hue of a reserved and retiring nature than someone aggressive. Hovewer, sometimes his answers can be a little harsh especially if you do not approach him in the right way. I think it's quite hard to define, and probably different people might have a different understanding of this word...
> Spigoloso is also a word that can be used to define the taste of a wine. It would probably be the contrary of "smooth"... although I would not be sure what it means that a wine is smooth !


I think you could use the word "aloof" here.  It's used for someone who is reserved in manner, and isn't necessarily negative.


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## DAH

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> The word "spigoloso" hasn't a very sharp meaning in Italian (when referred to the character of a person). Literally it means "having edges and vertices" (edge is spigolo and vertice=A point on a polyhedron common to three or more sides). My understanding of "spigoloso" is someone who does not appear, at least superficially, much open and jovial. The connotation is not necessarily negative:  however, if you become his friend he is all another person and actually sweet and friendly.


 
I have a new word to try on you:  grate.

"He's one of those boxed-in types (square), and he can grate on you.  But, once you measure him up, you can get passed that, just fine."

A wine can be too dry, acidic, tannic or even too sweet.


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## lsp

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> If this does sound well good in English, I think we are there.


*Well* as an adverb refers to well-being. Same reason that if someone says How does this dress look on me, you say the dress looks good on you (flattering, not health-inducing). If you heard me cough deeply you might say I don't sound well.


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## jupa

I'm sorry. A lot of this confusion comes from me. However, we have all noted that "rough around the edges" was to be discarded. So, we opted for "edgy". 
I am not personally familiar with the word "spigoloso" but according to the word reference dictionary, it translates as edgy. 

Sorry again for the confusion.


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## carrickp

How about "he's a square shooter, but a bit sharp around the edges . . ."?


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## leenico

carrickp said:
			
		

> How about "he's a square shooter, but a bit sharp around the edges . . ."?


Why not just say it as it is. He has reverse charisma.


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## moki

ok this is all great but as for rendering this sentence in english and keeping the play on words I don't think you can use any other word than edgy


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