# Cousin



## karim37

Hi 
How do you say "cousin" in Russian?
I have heard двоюродный брат and кузен.
Do they both mean cousin? If so, which one is better?


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## Ptak

In everyday language, we use just *брат / сестра*. If we need to specify it, then *двоюродный брат / двоюродная сестра*.

*Кузен *and *кузина* sound very old-fashioned and are not used in colloquial language.


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## morzh

Either one is good, "кузен" or "двоюродный брат". I actually use "кузен" most of the time. I is used less often but nevertheless is used, not obsolete and will be understood by all.

PS. I never heard anyone in Russia proper saying "брат" (brother) i/o "двоюродный брат" (I am not claiming it does not exist - I disagree with this being a popular practice). With notable exception of some Caucasus ethnicities  where people often refer to any kind of "брат" (родной - двоюродный-троюродный - brother and first/second cousins) as just "брат".


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## Maroseika

I'm afraid кузен/кузина would sound quite pretentious though understandable of course.


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> I'm afraid кузен/кузина would sound quite pretentious though understandable of course.



Well....."pretentious" almost always perceived as a combination of what's said and how it's said.
if you are a person with a goatee, fixing a pince-nez on your nose bridge, and pronouncing it with some french nasal tones in your voice - sure, it will sound pretentious.

If you matter-o-factly state "мой кузен Витька; прошу любить и жаловать", there's nothing really "hi-society" about it.


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## Ptak

morzh said:


> I actually use "кузен" most of the time.


Probably it is so because you don't live in Russia? (it stands in your profile).



> I is used less often but nevertheless is used, not obsolete


It IS obsolete, and it is used only in books about life in the 19th century and earlier, films about the past, and so on.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> If you matter-o-factly state "мой кузен Витька; прошу любить и жаловать", there's nothing really "hi-society" about it.


Anyway, it looks weird. I can hardly imagine who and where can say this seriously nowadays.


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## morzh

Ptak said:


> Probably it is so because you don't live in Russia? (it stands in your profile).
> 
> 
> It IS obsolete, and it is used only in books about life in the 19th century and earlier, films about the past, and so on.



You know, indeed, I don't live in Russia, but I did not leave Russia in 19th century either.

PS. Search on Google gives 727,000 hits for "двоюродный брат" and 491,000 for "кузен". It is not a drastic difference.


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## Ptak

morzh said:


> and 491,000 for "кузен".


It's a funny argument  Don't you think that all those "кузен"'s are from examples of nowadays' colloquial speech?  Those words can be from books, explanatory dictionaries, and who knows where else. I've just discovered that it can be even a surname.


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## morzh

491К - all from the books, and 727K - all from colloquial speech, yeah, right. 

It's a statistical mix. There are bound to be some from all kinds of usage.

I personally do not consider Google a good indicator of, say, spelling and otherwise grammatical rules; but as an indicator of usage it is quite good.


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## Ptak

morzh said:


> and 727K - all from colloquial speech, yeah, right.


I didn't say that. 

Google could be a good indicator of usage of some words in writing, maybe. But it can't be an indicator of what and how people in everyday's language say, and which words they prefer.


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## Natalisha

I never use the words "кузен" and "кузина" referring to or speaking about my cousins. 

In my childhood I was told that my cousins are my _двоюродный брат_ and _двоюродная сестра_. So I use only these two words.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> 491К - all from the books, and 727K - all from colloquial speech, yeah, right.
> 
> It's a statistical mix. There are bound to be some from all kinds of usage..


But how can we distinguish old usage from the contemporary using only these 2 figures? According to this source, кузен in most cases is used nowadays either in the overseas or age-old context: http://search.ruscorpora.ru/search.xml?mycorp=%28%28created%253E%253D%25221980%2522%29%29&mysent=&mysize=80726353&mysentsize=6895272&dpp=&spp=&spd=&text=lexgramm&mode=main&sort=gr_tagging&lang=ru&nodia=1&parent1=0&level1=0&lex1=%EA%F3%E7%E5%ED&gramm1=&sem1=&flags1=&sem-mod1=sem&sem-mod1=sem2&parent2=0&level2=0&min2=1&max2=1&lex2=&gramm2=&sem2=&flags2=&sem-mod2=sem&sem-mod2=sem2


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## morzh

I don't know.....I do not descend from nobility, nor am I too old.
Still, I use "кузен/кузина" as a preferred way of referring to a "двоюродный". May be because it is shorter. I don't know. And I used it way before I came here, so it is not English influence.


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## Maroseika

Maybe this is a peculiarity of you family. Anyway, we can clearly see position of this word in the nowadays usage.


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## macdevster

My students from Uzbekistan tell me they use кузен/а more often. I wonder if it's a regional thing?


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## Maroseika

macdevster said:


> I wonder if it's a regional thing?


Probably, yes. Are they Russian or Uzbek natives?


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## Word Eater

I would never say just "брат" talking about my cousin, only "двоюродный брат". Nor I can agree with the statement, that "кузен" is obsolete, it is used, less often though, it is understandable and correct. I sometimes use it, however, of course I can't deny it's pretentious taste.


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## RhoKappa

Curious, how do you specify the following?

Half cousin
Double cousin
Second cousin
Double second cousin


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## rusita preciosa

Half cousin - ?? (could be сводный двоюродный брат, but I'm not sure this is accurate, we may not have the term)
Double cousin - ?? (I had to look this up, I'm not sure there is a term for that)
Second cousin - троюродный брат
Double second cousin - ?? (same as above)


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## Drink

RhoKappa said:


> Curious, how do you specify the following?
> 
> Half cousin
> Double cousin
> Second cousin
> Double second cousin



There aren't words for these, you'd just have to explain. A "double" first/second cousin could, for example, be explained as: двоюродный/троюродный брат с обеих сторон.



rusita preciosa said:


> Double cousin - ?? (I had to look this up, I'm not sure there is a term for that)


Don't worry, it's not a real "term" in English either.


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## RhoKappa

Cousin and all their derivations are indeed real terms.  These are the derivations of cousin.

Cousin: relationship between children of siblings, we already know.  Also known as first cousin.
Half cousin: relationship between children of two half-siblings.
Double cousin: when two siblings of one family mate with two siblings of another family.  Their children are doubly related through corresponding parents, hence double cousin.
Second cousin: relationship between children of two cousins.
Double second cousin: when two cousins of one family mate with two cousins of another family.  The children are doubly related through corresponding parents, hence double second cousin.

There is also one more pertinent term I forgot to mention in my last post, one that is quite relevant.

Cousin once removed: your relationship between yourself and your cousin's child.
Cousin twice removed: your relationship betwen yourself and your cousin's grandchild.

Is there a Russian expression for any of them?


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## Drink

RhoKappa said:


> Cousin and all their derivations are indeed real terms.  These are the derivations of cousin.



To clarify, I was only referring to your phrases with the word "double".


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## Maroseika

RhoKappa said:


> There is also one more pertinent term I forgot to mention in my last post, one that is quite relevant.
> Cousin once removed: your relationship between yourself and your cousin's child.


Двоюродные племянник или племянница, двоюродные дядя и тетка.


> Cousin twice removed: your relationship betwen yourself and your cousin's grandchild.


Внучатые двоюродные племянник или племянница, троюродный дед или бабка.
Formally, it would be more logical to call cousins twice removed троюродный внук, внучка. But for some reasons instead of them abovementioned term is used.


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