# basta



## perpend

I was about to write that "basta" isn't included on WR, but I found this:
basta - Wörterbuch Deutsch-Englisch - WordReference.com

I use "basta" gelegentlich, and here's my made-up sentence.

_Du---das musst du einfach so auffassen, *basta*._

Auf Englisch würde ich sagen:
that's that
that's the way it is

Ist "basta" eine Sache des Weißwurstequators? Ich habe "basta" in München kennengelernt. Man sagt, dass München die noerdlichste Stadt von Italien ist.

Wie weit ist "basta" in Deutschland verbreitet?


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## Demiurg

Dank des Basta-Kanzlers ist das Wort heute in ganz Deutschland bekannt.


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## perpend

Hmmm ... wo hast du "Basta-Kanzler" gehoert? Der Link hilft mir nicht besonders weiter, Demi.

Ich hoere so etwas nicht in der Presse.

EDIT: How do your translate "Basta-Kanzler" into English?
A) ________
B) ________

Please fill in the blanks.


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## bearded

perpend said:


> Man sagt, dass München die noerdlichste Stadt von Italien ist.


Sollte es jemanden geben, der es nicht weiß, so möchte ich darauf hinweisen, dass _basta _ein italienisches Wort ist.  Es bedeutet ''es reicht'' und ist die 3.Person des Verbs _bastare _(ausreichen) im unpersönlichen Gebrauch.


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## Frank78

Demiurg said:


> Dank des Basta-Kanzlers ist das Wort heute in ganz Deutschland bekannt.





 Meinst du nicht, es war schon lange vorher bekannt?


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## perpend

bearded man said:


> Sollte es jemanden geben, der es nicht weiß, so möchte ich darauf hinweisen, dass _basta _ein italienisches Wort ist.  Es bedeutet ''es reicht'' und ist die 3.Person des Verbs _bastare _(ausreichen) im unpersönlichen Gebrauch.



Tut mir Leid, bearded, aber "basta" ist auch ein bairisches Wort.  I assume you don't have a copyright on it? 

"es reicht" kann streng klingen.

Würdest du auch mit "genug schon" zufrieden sein, was Deutsch betrifft? 

Oft denke ich, dass "basta" "Schluß" heißt.

Es muss nicht unbedingt im aggressiven Ton geäußert werden, oder?


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## bearded

perpend said:


> Tut mir Leid, bearded, aber "basta" ist auch ein bairisches Wort.  I assume you don't have a copyright on it?


Of course no copyright.  But suppose Bairisch adopted  an English word like ''enough''.  You wouldn't think that it ceased to be English, would you? Or do you think that the word 'basta' contains typical Bavarian sounds..?
Anyhow, my aim was just to explain *the origin* of the word - in case there were members who still didn't know. I agree that 'es reicht' would sound rougher than 'basta' in German, but that was the original meaning (and in Italian, 'basta' still sounds less gentle than in German).
And I agree that 'basta' in German often corresponds to 'Schluss' or 'that's all' ('' und damit basta, or _das wär's'')._


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> Meinst du nicht, es war schon lange vorher bekannt?


Der Ausdruck wurde zur Charakterisierung Schröder's Kanzlerschaft geprägt. Anderes behauptet m.E. Demiurg's Quelle auch nicht.


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## perpend

bearded man said:


> Anyhow, my aim was just to explain *the origin* of the word - in case there were members who still didn't know. I agree that 'es reicht' would sound rougher than 'basta' in German, but that was the original meaning (and in Italian, 'basta' still sounds less gentle than in German). And I agree that 'basta' in German often corresponds to 'Schluss' or 'that's all' ('' und damit basta, or _das wär's'')._



Well-written!


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> I agree that 'es reicht' would sound rougher than 'basta' in German, but that was the original meaning (and in Italian, 'basta' still sounds less gentle than in German).


On the contrary. _Basta_ sounds very rough in German. I still remember I was very surprised when I learned the verb _bastare_ in Italian that _basta_ "only" meant _es reicht_.


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## perpend

I think it's relative. I've heard the spectrum.

Context tells what the register of "basta" in German is, in my experience.

I'm still surprised that it's not an official "loan word" in German. (Well, "basta" does exist on WR---see above.)


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## bearded

berndf said:


> On the contrary. _Basta_ sounds very rough in German. I still remember I was very surprised when I learned the verb _bastare_ in Italian that _basta_ "only" meant _es reicht_.


I (and possibly perpend) was thinking of a situation where somebody insisted that they were right, and would receive a reply ''_es reicht (aber)!'' _from the Gesprächspartner. That would ''cut'' the discussion and  sound extremely rough to my ears - if compared to a relatively calm dialogue in which I might list actions like ''_nach der Party war ich so müde, ich ging nach Hause und ins Bett und schlief ein, und damit basta''._
I'm sure that there are also situations in which 'basta' can be used in a 'rough' way, as you say.

Cross-posted with perpend.


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## perpend

bearded man said:


> I (and possibly perpend) was thinking of a situation where somebody insisted that they were right, and would receive a reply ''_es reicht (aber)!'' _from the Gesprächspartner. That would ''cut'' the discussion and  sound extremely rough to my ears - if compared to a relatively calm dialogue in which I might list actions like ''_nach der Party war ich so müde, ich ging nach Hause und ins Bett und schlief ein, und damit basta''._
> I'm sure that there are also situations in which 'basta' can be used in a 'rough' way, as you say.



Yep (cross-posted)---there is a range of usage of "basta", at least in Bavarian German.


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> I (and possibly perpend) was thinking of a situation where somebody insisted that they were right, and would receive a reply ''_es reicht (aber)!'' _from the Gesprächspartner. That would ''cut'' the discussion and  sound extremely rough to my ears - if compared to a relatively calm dialogue in which I might list actions like ''_nach der Party war ich so müde, ich ging nach Hause und ins Bett und schlief ein, und damit basta''._
> I'm sure that there are also situations in which 'basta' can be used in a 'rough' way, as you say.
> 
> Cross-posted with perpend.


The difference is_ es reicht_ *can* be rough. _Basta_ *always* is. It would be dangerous to underestimate that. You can unknowingly offend people.


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## bearded

berndf said:


> You can unknowingly offend people


I'll try not to do that. Thanks for the advice.


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## perpend

berndf said:


> The difference is_ es reicht_ *can* be rough. _Basta_ *always* is. It would be dangerous to underestimate that. You can unknowingly offend people.



I could not consider "basta" to always be "rough".

It's sometimes like "alright already" in American English.
Or: Just accept it like this.

EDIT: Nothing "rough" or "aggressive" about it.


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## Hutschi

Duden | basta | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme, Herkunft

"Basta" is part of the German colloquial language.  It was already in the "Duden" of 1880.
I know it from Thuringia from my father.

"Basta" can also be a sign of might used in hierarchical systems. "I do not want to discuss this. Do what I said."

May be due to political correctness and politeness, it is almost obsolete now. My father used it quite often. I used it seldom, I cannot remember when I used it after childhood at all, and I never heard it from my daughter or my wife.

(edit


> Or: Just accept it like this.


It is more:





> "Just accept it like this. I do not want any further discussion. Do as I said!


It is never neutral.


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## perpend

Well, "basta" has made it relatively far "north" then, Hutschi.  It needn't die out where you are.


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## Hutschi

When I was child, I used it in a state of anger and stamped sobbingly with the feed at the bottom.

The metaphor in case of Schröder is "Machtwort". to exercise one's authority / to put one's foot down


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## perpend

Well, overall, it sounds like "basta" can't be used in a neutral way. Thanks all!

I thought it could (be).

Thanks everyone for the input.


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## Hutschi

*Origin* according to
Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache
By Friedrich Kluge:
Kluge states that "Basta!" (meaning "Enough!") came from the Ital. and Spain word "basta" (it is enough/it may be) into the German language as early as in the thirty years war. There is a written source already 1695. It comes from vulg. lat "*bastare".


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## Kajjo

I have known and used _Basta_ all my life and believe it to be very common and well-known to every German.

_Basta_ is rough and very undiplomatic. It is not offending in itself, but might be considered impolite depending on situation, context and intonation.

_Basta_ ist never just neutral. It is a statement of closing a topic, no matter what the other intends to do or want to do.

_Basta_ can be used both in private and business settings (as well as in politics as we see in Bundeskanzler Schröders frequent usage), but it is always a non-diplomatic, somewhat unsociable way. It might not only convey finality of decision, but depending on the situation also stubbornness or unreasonableness, particularly if used to often or in unsuitable situations.

With regards to _"Es reicht!"_ I believe that in many cases this can be much softer and more diplomatic than _Basta_. For example, _"Komm, es reicht!"_ can be stressed softly to calm down. _Basta_, though, is always rough.


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## perpend

Todo klaro. Basta. Danke euch allen.


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## berndf

perpend said:


> I could not consider "basta" to always be "rough".


Than you have been misunderstanding its connotations.


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## perpend

Thanks. See #23. Sorry!  It would appear I'm a softie.


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## berndf

perpend said:


> It would appear I'm a softie.


I don't think it is that. But it is probably the most difficult thing of all when learning a foreign language to gauge the fine stylistic and emotional connotations native speakers attach to a word or expressions correctly.


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## perpend

I actually learned this word in German, when living in Germany, so I attach different nuances to it. *Basta*!  (It's that simple. I hope that didn't sound tough/rough.)


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## Kajjo

perpend said:


> It's that simple. I hope that didn't sound tough/rough.


It did sound rough!

But we know how you mean it...


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## berndf

perpend said:


> I actually learned this word in German, when living in Germany, so I attach *different *nuances to it. *Basta*!


... and you attached the *wrong* nuances to it.

That is precisely the trap I explained one is running into when picking up a word "in the street" without having gone through the childhood socialization process that has forged the common intuition of native speakers. I know what I am speaking of because most of my colloquial French has been picked up in the street and I have fallen into that trap more than once.


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## Hutschi

perpend said:


> I actually learned this word in German, when living in Germany, so I attach different nuances to it. *Basta*!  (It's that simple. I hope that didn't sound tough/rough.)



The meaning is:

I actually learned this word in German, when living in Germany, so I attach different nuances to it. *Basta*! =
_*That is my last word! I do not allow you to answer, and my opinion is the only truth. Doesn't matter what you say, I am right! So shut up!*
_
I made it bold to emphasize the roughness ...


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## perpend

Okay---thanks guys! I think I may have offended some people over the years.  I never knew it was that strong.


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## Gernot Back

Demiurg said:


> Dank des Basta-Kanzlers ist das Wort heute in ganz Deutschland bekannt.


Nein, das war schon viel früher deutschlandweit bekannt und die Verwendung dieses Wortes hat sich meinem Gefühl nach auch nicht gesteigert seit dem "Basta"- oder "Gedöns"-Kanzler. Diskussionen kann man statt mit "!Basta" auch mit Worten wie "alternativlos" (© Angela Merkel) abwürgen.


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## Hutschi

"Alternativlos" hat die Diskussionen nicht abgewürgt. Es hat auch nicht die Konnotation, sich zu benehmen, wie ein kleines Kind.
Stattdessen impliziert es, dass sofort ine Suche nach Alternativen beginnt - schon aus Widerspruchsgeist.
Allerdings zeigt es, wenn man die Alternativen betrachtet, dass es keine "besseren" Alternativen zu geben scheint - im Sinne der jeweiligen Politik. 
"Basta" sagt dagegen: _Ihr müsst das so machen, denn ich habe hier das Sagen!_


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## perpend

Unter dem Strich, I've consulted some peeps. I don't think "basta" is *always* "harsh"/"rough"/"tough"/"strong", for what it's worth.


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## bearded

perpend said:


> I don't think "basta" is *always* "harsh"/"rough"/"tough


In diesem Zusammenhang möchte ich von Muttersprachlern gerne wissen, ob mein Gebrauch von 'basta' in #12 korrekt bzw. annehmbar ist: am Ende einer Aufzählung/Erzählung meiner Handlungen schrieb ich _und damit basta._ Meine Absicht war es, auszudrücken, dass ich mit der Aufzählung aufhören wollte.  Der 'schroffe' Befehl war sozusagen an mich selbst gerichtet.  Danke.


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## Kajjo

_ Nach der Party war ich so müde, ich ging nach Hause und ins Bett und schlief ein, und damit basta._

Das ist zwar grammatisch korrekt, aber absolut gar nicht idiomatisch. So kann man _basta _leider nicht verwenden.

_ Nach der Party war ich so müde, ich ging nach Hause und ins Bett und schlief ein, und das war's dann. _


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## berndf

@bearded man: Es geht darum nicht, weil man _basta_ nur verwendet, wenn man ausdrücken will, dass man keinen Widerspruch duldet und eine solche Interpretation ist in Deinem Satz nicht sinnvoll, da keine Situation beschrieben wird, in der eine Diskussion stattfindet.


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## Hutschi

perpend said:


> Unter dem Strich, I've consulted some peeps. I don't think "basta" is *always* "harsh"/"rough"/"tough"/"strong", for what it's worth.


In a week position you are, if you use it as child, when you refuse to do something.
_"Ich mache das nicht, und damit basta!" and stomping the feet._
Your parents will either laugh (supposing that you do not understand what you are doing) or become angry because it is a "freche Antwort!".
(impertinent answer)

It is weak, but a kind of rough.


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## Blixa

"Basta" sounds like Spanish and as far as I understood, it has the same meaning in German, I didn't know it


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