# äänneyhtymät -tj-, -dj-



## Gavril

Äänneyhtymät _-tj-,_ _-dj-_ näyttävät jokseenkin harvinaisilta suomessa: tietääkseni niitä tavataan vain sanoissa _patja _ja _budjetti_. Miten niitä yleensä äännetään?

Äännetäänkö _-tj- _esim. juuri niin kuin yhtymä _-ti- _sanassa _kutiava_ ja -_dj_- kuin yhtymä _-di- _sanassa _koodia _(_koodi_-sanan partitiivimuoto)?

Kiitos suomalaisille (tai muille suomen ääntämykseen tutustuneille)


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## kirahvi

There is a definite glide after [t] and [d] in the words _patja_ and _budjetti _respectively.

EDIT: I just asked my aunt to say _patja_ and _budjetti_. There was a glide in _patja_, in _budjetti_ the glide had reduced to _, but her d was also a flap rather than a plosive (and voiceless [p] rather than * in the beginning of the word). She's from Western Finland.*_


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## Gavril

Does the glide have any effect on the preceding consonant? E.g., is _patja _sometimes (or often) pronounced like "patsja" or "patcha"?


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## sakvaka

No, it is never rendered as 'patša'. (_Never say never, I know... but none of the people I know pronounce the word in that way._)

It is possible that some people of (Finnish) Swedish origin mistakenly pronounce tj as tš: after all, _tjata_ in Swedish is pronounced as /tʃa: tta/. 

However, I'd even argue that the combination -dj (be it [di] or [dj]) is rather easy for Finns. Finnish Swedish dialect has retained the initial _dj_ in eg. _djur_ [djʉ: r], whereas Swedes pronounce it as [jʉ: r].


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## Gavril

One other question: would you say that the _-tj- _of _patja _is pronounced the same as the _ti- _of _tie, tietää, tiukka_ and so on? I've heard that _-i- _is pronounced as a full vowel (rather than a glide) in the latter group of words.


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## kirahvi

No, _-tj- _is never pronounced that way and _-i-_ is indeed a full vowel. I can't really even come up with instances, where the letter _j_ wouldn't mark a glide. At an intervocalic position, when the first vowel is frontal (especially if it's _), the glide isn't as clearly pronounced as it is after a consonant or other vowels, but it's still a glide. 

The ending -ija, marking a doer, is often misspelled and the letter j is omitted altogether. This probably tells something about how weak the glide there is, but it still is there. It's pretty common to see words like *hakia instead of hakija and *opiskelia instead of opiskelija._


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## Hakro

kirahvi said:


> The ending _-ija_, marking a doer, is often misspelled and the letter _j_ is omitted altogether. This probably tells something about how weak the glide there is, but it still is there. It's pretty common to see words like *hakia instead of hakija and *opiskelia instead of opiskelija.


You're perfectly right, Kirahvi. The only exception used to be "haltia" (fairy, fay, elf) to distinguish it from "haltija" (owner, holder, bearer etc.) – this is how I was taught (in the fifties) to write these words, but today the linguists don't accept "haltia" at all except in some place names like Haltiatunturi.


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