# FR: laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh



## JuicyJew

Salut,

I am wondering how to translate the following lyrics:

"laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh"

I think maybe "Rire jusqu'a tu pleures, pleurer jusqu'a tu ris". 

But i'm really not sure about the conjugation in this context. And i dont know if it even makes sense, or if its necesary to alter it to something like "you laugh until you cry, (and) cry until you laugh", 

But i'd prefer to keep it simple.

Merci


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## momo99

Hi,
I would translate it as 'rire jusqu'à pleurer, pleurer jusqu'à rire'
Hope this helps


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## yaourtaboire

Rire jusqu'à ce que tu pleures, pleurer jusqu'à ce que tu ris


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## JuicyJew

yaourtaboire said:


> Rire jusqu'à ce que tu pleures, pleurer jusqu'à ce que tu ris



Ok thanks, so why is it necesary to put "ce que" in between?


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## xaipete

_Jusqu'à_ needs a noun or pronoun after it, not generally a verb.  In English you could say "laugh to the point of crying" or "laugh to the point at which you cry".  But you wouldn't say "laugh to crying."  So French adds the _ce que_ for "the point at which".  It seems long and wordy to my American ears, but it's necessary.


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## dratuor

Ris à en pleurer, pleures à en rire


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## JuicyJew

dratuor said:


> Ris à en pleurer, pleures à en rire



Thanks, so what does en mean in this structure? Is it something like "the state of", or is it one of those instances where it represents a noun/subject like le can do?


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## jann

dratuor said:


> Ris à en pleurer, pleures à en rire


Just a small typo... no "s" in the imperative.


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## JuicyJew

jann said:


> Just a small typo... no "s" in the imperative.




Does en here imply a subject? such as tu?


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## dratuor

JuicyJew said:


> Does en here imply a subject? such as tu?



No, it does not.  _Ris à *en* pleurer.  _ 
This is an ellyptical sentence which means that parts of it have been removed on purpose

_Ris à *en* pleurer.  _ <=> _Ris jusqu'à ce que tu en Pleures_

the subject here is 'tu' which is not explicite but the use of the 'imperative' makes it clear.

Is it any clearer?

This structure is definitely not easy!


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## JuicyJew

Oh... Is it like tacit subject in spanish? The conjugation implies the subject?


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## jann

_En_ has absolutely nothing to do with a subject.  

In French, one way to indicate the reason you're crying (or laughing) is to use a structure with _de.
_e.g., _pleurer de joie_ = to cry with/from/out of joy.

The preposition _en_ replaces _[de+something], _and you can use it here:
_Ris jusqu'à ce que tu pleures de rires_ --> _Ris jusqu'à ce que tu en pleures --> __Ris à en pleurer.
_Laugh until you cry from laughter --> Laugh until you cry from it --> Laugh to the point of tears.

In English, you can drop the reason for crying entirely and just say "Laugh until you cry"... and people will still understand that the reason you cry is because you're laughing so hard.  But in French, it's not natural to drop the reason quite all the way... and what is left, representing the implied reason, is the preposition _en_.  

The reason that there is no subject stated for the verb _rire_ is because it's conjugated in the imperative (command) form.  The imperative is the only conjugated form in French for which we may drop the subject.  The reason there is no subject for the verb _pleurer_ in the final shortened form is because that verb is not conjugated.  It is understood that since you will be doing the laughing, you will also be doing the crying.


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## JuicyJew

Oh ok thanks, and why does pleures change to pleurer?


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## jann

I think I was editing my post while you were replying.  Take a look at the end of my answer again... 

English -ing forms often correspond to French infinitives.

_Ris à en pleurer _is approximately equivalent to "Laugh to crying" as in "Laugh to the point of crying."  That's not something we'd really say in English... but French and English sometimes use different structures to communicate a given idea.  As you can see, the most succinct form of the French sentence is not a direct, word-for-word translation of "laugh until you cry" -- because it replaces the preposition ("until") and the conjugated subjet+verb ("you cry") with an infinitive construction.


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## htodd

please tell me also ,I don't know how to translate this


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## geostan

How about:

Riez jusqu'aux larmes, pleurez jusqu'aux rires.


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## dratuor

geostan said:


> How about:
> 
> Riez jusqu'aux larmes, pleurez jusqu'aux rires.



Very good one!


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## Maître Capello

dratuor said:


> Ris à en pleurer, pleures à en rire





geostan said:


> Riez jusqu'aux larmes, pleurez jusqu'aux rires.


Well, those would indeed be translations of _to the degree/point of_ rather than _until_. I'm therefore not convinced they are the best translations… Rendering the _while_, I'd simply say something like:

_Ris jusqu'à ce que tu pleures; pleure jusqu'à ce que tu ries.
__Ris jusqu'à pleurer; pleure jusqu'à rire._


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## Thomas1

Maître Capello said:


> [...]_Ris jusqu'à pleurer; pleure jusqu'à rire._


Do we need to use 'en' in this version? Or is it optional?
Ris jusqu'à en pleurer ; pleure jusqu'à en rire.


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## Maître Capello

It would be also possible to add _en_ but the meaning would be slightly different.

_Ris jusqu'à pleurer_ = Ris jusqu'à ce que tu te mettes à pleurer.
_Ris jusqu'à *en* pleurer_ = Ris jusqu'à ce que ton rire te fasse pleurer.


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## purpurine

Maître Capello said:


> It would be also possible to add _en_ but the meaning would be slightly different.
> 
> _Ris jusqu'à pleurer_ = Ris jusqu'à ce que tu te mettes à pleurer.
> _Ris jusqu'à *en* pleurer_ = Ris jusqu'à ce que ton rire te fasse pleurer.


 
Mais *en* comme pronom fait la référence aux parties précédantes si je me trompe pas.


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## Maître Capello

Oui, justement; ce qui précède _en_, c'est _rire_.


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## purpurine

Maître Capello said:


> Oui, justement; ce qui précède _en_, c'est _rire_.


 Merci beaucoup!


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