# Stereotypes about Italians



## _forumuser_

I saw a similar thread on our neighbors across the Alps and thought it'd be interesting to open one on Italians. Typically, Italians and/or Italian-Americans on (mostly, but not exclusively) US-made films and tv shows are:

- very sexually active bordering sociopathy
- handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way
- not very bright and moderately ignorant
- immature/excessively attached to their families
- have a very strong accent in English
- have an overly melodious, annoying tone
- are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls
- always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title)
- living at their parents' home past 30
- hairy 
- endowed with huge bellies after 40
- lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent
- often engaging in illegal activities
etc. etc.

OK, this is a bit heavy-handed but you get my point. Now here's a bunch of questions for you. Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? My impression is that although most people are careful enough to take stereotypes with a grain of salt, this sort of media drivel floats in the back of our heads and can surface in our thoughts and words when we least expect it.


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## tvdxer

Ahh, Italians!

Here are some that are quite common:

> Deeply Catholic
> Big families 
> Sons who stay with their "mammas" until they pass 30 and are in love with them well past then (to the annoyance of their wives)
> Very gregarious and loud
> Speak with their hands as much as their mouths
> Absolutely obsessed with food, wine, and in general having a good time
> Americans tend to think of pasta drenched in red sauce and spicy meatballs, coupled with red wine when they think of Italian food / drink, rather than risotto, polenta, or pesto.
> Prone to corruption, bribing, crime (Mafia!)
> Very close families + nepotism
> Black hair, olive complexion (again, this is how Americans see Italians - even though many from the have skin as light as Germans and even blond hair, most of the immigrants to the U.S. came from the South, especially Sicily and Campania, etc.)
> Italian grandmothers / nonas: affectionate, spoil their children
> Italian (not so much Italian-American) men: "Lotharios" who are extremely aggressive and confident in pursuing women and yell catcalls
> Wear sunglasses and leather jackets
> Insane drivers; think their little Fiat 500 is a race car 
> Law-breakers; need a reason to obey the law
> Obsessed with soccer (football, calcio)
> Speak with a sing-song intonation
> Tendency towards tackiness

(in other words, very similar to your list)



> Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username?



Some seem confirmed.

Others, disprove.

But I've met few "real-world" Italians, though I've known many Italian-Americans.

I tend to think of most posters as more educated, cosmopolitan people who don't display as many of the "stereotypical ---" traits as others might, but I would imagine you as living in an apartment and driving a tiny car 



> To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures?



I like to read more formal texts (e.g. the wonderful _Culture Shock_ series) about the different traits certain cultures have, but the best way to know is to visit.  I plan on getting to Italy on the Europe trip I hope to make God-willing in the not so distant future


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## Shanan

I have a good friend who is rather harry, we always joke that it is the italian in him. 

(Which he does have a strong italian background.)


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## TimLA

Hmmm...Being an Anglo-Teutonic-Native American who loves Italy and most Italians, I shall give unbiased views on these issues. 

- very sexually active bordering sociopathy - NO - low birth rate in Italy 
- handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way - NO - the definition of "style"
- not very bright and moderately ignorant - NO - Galileo, Marconi, Pirandello, Eco
- immature/excessively attached to their families - NO - family-centered is not bad
- have a very strong accent in English - Maybe, Americans have a strong accent in Italian
- have an overly melodious, annoying tone - NO - They speak the language of Dante, and have given birth to the music of Puccini, Verdi, Rossini and so many others
- are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls - NO - the Mediterranean diet
- always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title) - NO, preferably songs with "Nessun dorma" in the title
- living at their parents' home past 30 - Depends on the price of homes in Rome
- hairy - NO
- endowed with huge bellies after 40 - NO
- lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent - the opposite
- often engaging in illegal activities - NO

OK, this is a bit heavy-handed but you get my point. Now here's a bunch of questions for you.

Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? - Disprove - I look forward to every trip to Italy to see and speak to real Italians - not sterotypes that represent less than 0.01% of the American-Italian populace. I look forward to meeting Italians in SF, Boston, New York, Anyplace, USA.

Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? - NO - I look forward to meeting an interacting with anyone with an Italian name (first or last), or who speaks with an Italian accent.

To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? - None that I know of. Italians in the US are so ubiquitous that most of my colleagues, friends and acquaintances don't even think about their nationality.


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## _forumuser_

TimLA said:


> - very sexually active bordering sociopathy - NO - low birth rate in Italy
> 
> - living at their parents' home past 30 - Depends on the price of homes in Rome




I should have made this clear. Biased views from professed Italophiles are not acceptable...


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## Lombard Beige

Well, living in Italy and being half Italian, but still enough of an outsider to view things a bit different from the "natives", here are my comments:

- very sexually active bordering sociopathy
Well, sales of V...gra are high here ...

- handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way
Possibly, but through the Renaissance artists, etc., Italians also contributed to form the European "canon" of handsomeness; also the Italian population is very heterogeneous from the blondest blondes to the darkest brunettes, roughly from North to South, but not completely ...

- not very bright and moderately ignorant
This would be contradicted by the many Nobel prizewinners and people like Galileo, Marconi, not to mention the artists, explorers, etc.

- immature/excessively attached to their families
Certainly attached to their families, but not necessarily immature: some are, some aren't

- have a very strong accent in English
Possibly ...

- have an overly melodious, annoying tone
Depends ...

- are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls
Pizza, yes, spaghetti, not always. Here in the North, other forms of pasta are popular, but not necessarily spaghetti; rice is often used; meat balls are unknown, again here in the North ...

- always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title)
Yes and no ...

- living at their parents' home past 30
That's true up to about 30, rather than past 30

- hairy 
Well, I am, but not more than many of my non Italian relatives

- endowed with huge bellies after 40
Probably untrue. Other Europeans are more obese.

- lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent
No. Stubborness can be a good thing if not taken to an excess. Insistence too ... Other people would say "tenacious".

- often engaging in illegal activities
The crime rate in Rome is half that of LONDON ... In the North is less than of AMSTERDAM ...

regards


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## Lombard Beige

And here are my comments on the points not already covered:

> Deeply Catholic
50%, the other 50% is deeply anti-Catholic 

> Big families 
Once upon a time

> Sons who stay with their "mammas" until they pass 30 and are in love with them well past then (to the annoyance of their wives)
There is some truth in this, but it's rather exaggerated; the girls also love their fathers (I hope) ...

> Very gregarious and loud
Yes, but not universally; I have some (very) loud neighbours and some quiet ones ...

> Speak with their hands as much as their mouths
Not as much, but also ...

> Absolutely obsessed with food, wine, and in general having a good time
Apart from sex, which comes under having a good time, what else is there to do in life. One can also have a good time editing Wikipedia, or collecting stamps. I actually enjoy WORKING, which is a real blessing.

> Americans tend to think of pasta drenched in red sauce and spicy meatballs, coupled with red wine when they think of Italian food / drink, rather than risotto, polenta, or pesto.
True ... but as I already said, here in the North, we do eat more risotto, polenta and pesto ... Wine consumption has dropped considerably.

> Prone to corruption, bribing, crime (Mafia!)
Not more than others ... The names change.

> Very close families + nepotism
Yes, thank God for the first; yes, unfortunately for the second.

> Black hair, olive complexion (again, this is how Americans see Italians - even though many from the have skin as light as Germans and even blond hair, most of the immigrants to the U.S. came from the South, especially Sicily and Campania, etc.)
When I was in the US, I was surprised by the commercials with all these dark Italo-Americans. Here in Italy, like in Spain, the people on the TV are usually lighter skinned. One Italian actor went to America and came back because nobody would contract him, as he looked "French" ...

> Italian grandmothers / nonas: affectionate, spoil their children
So does my wife, who is Galician (i.e. Spanish) ...

> Italian (not so much Italian-American) men: "Lotharios" who are extremely aggressive and confident in pursuing women and yell catcalls
Some are, some aren't ...

> Wear sunglasses and leather jackets
Well, if you have light coloured eyes, in a sunny place, sunglasses are essential; my wife didn't wear sunglasses and she has recently been operated for cataracts ...

> Insane drivers; think their little Fiat 500 is a race car 
I find the French (some) more insane, and the Germans "non scherzano" (don't joke) at least in terms of speed ... 

> Law-breakers; need a reason to obey the law
Not true ... Crime rates are lower here than in other countries ...

> Obsessed with soccer (football, calcio)
True for a large percentage ... although obsessed is a strong word.

> Speak with a sing-song intonation
The Tuscans speak as though they were barking (" l'abbaiare asmatico dei fiorentini ..."). I know because my son-in-law is Tuscan.

> Tendency towards tackiness
I don't think so, but I'm not sure what you mean.

regards


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## Lavinia.dNP

- very sexually active bordering sociopathy - It's a bit different : they tend to try and seduce as many girls as they can, often in quite a clumsy way with big sentences like "I love you" said to a girl they met 2 minutes ago, but they rarely succeed, because girls in Italy don't give it easily. (that's why they try with the largest possible number of girls, hoping that on a large number at least one of them will give them what they want)
- handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way - It's a matter of taste : for instance, I think that French people are too grey, but I agree with you that those Italians with the huge sunglasses and pointy shoes are a little bit ridiculous.
- not very bright and moderately ignorant - NO, In Italy we have the culture of sending our sons and daughters to the university, even if that means sacrifices for the parents. A kid who doesn't want to attend university is seen as almost a dishonor for the family.
- immature/excessively attached to their families - attached to their families : yes, but that's not because of immaturity : The Americans I knew looked to me much more "immature"
- have a very strong accent in English - Like anyone learning a foreign language, depending on the level they reached
- have an overly melodious, annoying tone - The Italian accent can sound like that
- are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls - Yes, we eat pasta every day, but don't think about the usual tomato sauce : every day we make it in a different way, with vegetables, or with tuna, or Carbonara, or... basically we see what's in the fridge and invent something. As for the pizza, it's true,we love it, but if we almost always eat pizza when we go out that's because it's much less expensive.
- always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title) - not at all : people don't sing in their everyday life, but Italian singers have a style of their own : their voices are always very loud and "full", unlike french singers who are more subtle and delicate.
- living at their parents' home past 30 -YES, but that's because of high rents, low salaries, unemployment and illegal practices like actually perceiving half the amount officially stated on your pay slip (yes, it's a common practice there)
- hairy - It depends, but usually yes (I spend hours with my hair plucker)
- endowed with huge bellies after 40 - The older generation, yes, because Italian Mammas always want you to eat. "Mangia! mangia!" they say, like they were afraid that you could starve. But the new generation is different and we eat much less.
- lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent - I would say that Italians are very good at socializing, but it's trrue that on average they tend to be stubborn and insistent.
- often engaging in illegal activities - Sad but true, they always try to find a way to get things for free or earn some money in not-so- legal ways, and they feel very smart when they succeed. maybe that's because the salaries are so low that they have to find alternative ways.


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## Lavinia.dNP

> Deeply Catholic - catholic, yes, but rather superficially : they go to church just because it makes a good impression, and because otherwise people could talk behind their backs.
> Big families - not anymore : we just gather for Christmas and other occasions like that, but it's true that people often take the mother in law with them if the father in law dies.
> Sons who stay with their "mammas" until they pass 30 and are in love with them well past then (to the annoyance of their wives) - In Italy people tend to stay with their parents until they get married for two reasons : in Sicily because someone who leaves the family without a precise reason (work in another town) is seen as a "traitor" who "abandons" his parents. In the rest of Italy, because low salaries don't allow you to rent a house on your own.
> Very gregarious and loud - Yes, we are, and Italian is spoken at an average 10 db louder than the majority of other languages.
> Speak with their hands as much as their mouths - yes, absolutely, but what's wrong with it?
> Absolutely obsessed with food, wine, and in general having a good time - Yes, that's true
> Americans tend to think of pasta drenched in red sauce and spicy meatballs, coupled with red wine when they think of Italian food / drink, rather than risotto, polenta, or pesto. - We eat pasta with tomato sauce, but not always, we vary a lot in our pasta recipes, and we don't forget about risotto, polenta etc...
> Prone to corruption, bribing, crime (Mafia!) - sadly yes
> Very close families + nepotism - yes, sad but true : everything seems to work by "conoscenze" (acquaintances)
> Black hair, olive complexion (again, this is how Americans see Italians - even though many from the have skin as light as Germans and even blond hair, most of the immigrants to the U.S. came from the South, especially Sicily and Campania, etc.) - we are not all black haired
> Italian grandmothers / nonas: affectionate, spoil their children - Yes, the Nonna is very important in Italian culture and people often have to keep them in the house with them because placing them in a "retirement" house" would be seen as a dishonour.
> Italian (not so much Italian-American) men: "Lotharios" who are extremely aggressive and confident in pursuing women and yell catcalls - I'm Italian and I've never witnessed such aggressiveness. But it's true that Italians are quite insistent and clumsy with women, in the meaning that they will say "I love you" after only 5 minutes that they know you.
> Wear sunglasses and leather jackets - yes, and they tend to be ridiculous because they wear huge sunglasses even when they are not needed (when it's raining or at night)
> Insane drivers; think their little Fiat 500 is a race car - Absolutely yes : if you learn to drive in Italy you can drive anywhere. Cars are small, but who needs a big car? it's more difficult to park. Americans are really obsessed by big cars : for them a Ford Focus is referred to as "that tiny rounded ford car", to us it is a medium sized car.
> Law-breakers; need a reason to obey the law - yes
> Obsessed with soccer (football, calcio) - unfortunately for women, yes
> Speak with a sing-song intonation - it depends on their accent
> Tendency towards tackiness - sometimes yes, but not always


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## Paulfromitaly

_forumuser_ said:


> - very sexually active bordering sociopathy *rubbish*
> - handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way *rubbish*
> - not very bright and moderately ignorant r*ubbish*
> - immature/excessively attached to their families *some of us*
> - have a very strong accent in English *often true, exactly like other natives of a Romance language.*
> - have an overly melodious, annoying tone rubbish
> - are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls *rubbish (foreigners have no idea of how diverse Italian cookery is)*
> - always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title) *rubbish*
> - living at their parents' home past 30 *often true*
> - hairy *rubbish*
> - endowed with huge bellies after 40 *bull*hit: Americans and British are averagely more overweight than Italians*
> - lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent *rubbish*
> - often engaging in illegal activities *some of us*





tvdxer said:


> > Deeply Catholic *often true*
> > Big families *no longer true*
> > Very gregarious and loud *some of us*
> > Speak with their hands as much as their mouths *true*
> > Absolutely obsessed with food, wine, and in general having a good time *rubbish*
> > Prone to corruption, bribing, crime (Mafia!) *some of us*
> > Very close families + nepotism *some of us*
> > Black hair, olive complexion (again, this is how Americans see Italians - even though many from the have skin as light as Germans and even blond hair, most of the immigrants to the U.S. came from the South, especially Sicily and Campania, etc.) *If you could see me, you'd think I'm German.*
> > Italian grandmothers / nonas: affectionate, spoil their children* true*
> > Italian (not so much Italian-American) men: "Lotharios" who are extremely aggressive and confident in pursuing women and yell catcalls *some of us*
> > Wear sunglasses and leather jackets *rubbish*
> > Insane drivers; think their little Fiat 500 is a race car *some of us*
> > Law-breakers; need a reason to obey the law *some of us (unfortunately those are the ones you always hear about)*
> > Obsessed with soccer (football, calcio)* kinda true if then you'd say that American are obsessed with baseball.*
> > Speak with a sing-song intonation *rubbish*
> > Tendency towards tackiness *I'd need half an hour to list all the Italian stylists who rule around the world..*



It's all about stereotypes, anyway.


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## GEmatt

_forumuser_ said:


> Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list?


There's no smoke without fire, but in general, I think Paulfromitaly has been quite succinct on the matter. It's mostly rubbish.





> Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username?


I'd like to say categorically not, but I'm not sure. I'm lucky to know enough Italians to know that they're such a diverse bunch that, beyond speaking Italian, it's not possible to generalize.





> To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures?


I try to form my opinions based on experience and knowledge, not on conjecture and stereotype, so I'd like to hope that the type of information you list has virtually no impact on my process. I can't speak for people around me.





TimLA said:


> - very sexually active bordering sociopathy - NO - low birth rate in Italy


Er, that doesn't follow, I don't think. There is such thing as contraception, after all. 

GEmatt


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## ireney

Mod Note: Read the first post carefully: At no point is it asking how you, personaly fit/don't fit into that stereotype. Please use the list provided as a base for discussion NOT as a questionaire.


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## Lombard Beige

I can't understand what's wrong in answering like a questionnaire. So many points are raised that one would have to write a very long answer to cover them all. It is said, for example, that Italians and Greeks are very similar: one race, one face ... But don't you think you would have to answer point by point? Of course, one could answer: we're alike in the good points and different in the bad ones 

regards


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## french4beth

_forumuser_ said:


> Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? no
> Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? no
> To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? not people whose opinion I value
> My impression is that although most people are careful enough to take stereotypes with a grain of salt, (thank you! ) this sort of media drivel floats in the back of our heads and can surface in our thoughts and words when we least expect it. maybe if I'm about to watch a tv version of an "italian family", but that's not reality for me.


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## djchak

I'm no sure if the stereotypes are really about "Italians" at all, but more how Americans view "Italian Americans" in the context originally provided.

So it's more a reflection of the internal stereotyping within the U.S.

I would like to say, the stereotypes I hear about Americans from Italians can be equally funny.


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## Lombard Beige

djchak said:


> ... I would like to say, the stereotypes I hear about Americans from Italians can be equally funny.



I don't think Italians have any particular stereotypes concerning Americans. I think that today they share the usual continental West European stereotypes. If anything, they may distinguish between the people (nice) and the government (nasty). Once upon a time there was the stereotype of the rich American ("lo zio d'America"), but I think that that's a thing of the past.

The Italians possibly have a more stereotyped view of Italo-Americans, which is influenced by the general - pre Rudy Giuliani, pre Nancy Pelosi - media-generated Italo-American stereotype.

regards


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## djchak

I think we all have stereotypes and prejudices about people that are outside of our nation, but they aren't necessarily bad ones, it's just that we don't have time to get to know all the aspects of the culture...so we summarize it. I think boards like this give us unique access to ask questions directly, and break down these stereotypes and prejudices. 

That's really a great thing if you think about it. Becuase, let's face it, most people can't afford to go on a expensive holiday overseas. For many people I know, that might be a once in a lifetime chance, not to be squandered.


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## Jana337

_forumuser_ said:
			
		

> Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list?


They disprove a vast majority of the items listed above.


> lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent


I am utterly perplexed: Does anyone impute this one to Italians?


> often engaging in illegal activities


Across countries, the more expensive and more cumbersome are taxes and regulations, the bigger is the underground sector. And the Italian one is different in that it is prominent in popular culture, although there are many "more deserving" nations. 


> living at their parents' home past 30


Yes... You need more than 6 average annual salaries to buy a home in Italy, and just 3 in the USA. (Source - data from the early 1990s, though)
But Italians seem unduly conservative about housing: Rental housing is much less popular than in other European countries (no statistics right now, sorry), and so are mortgages.


> have an overly pleasantly melodious, annoying lovely tone





> very sexually active bordering sociopathy


That's way too much but I do observe what Lavinia.dNP described above: Some Italian man make a point of approaching as many women as possible, in a frantic way. "Sei fidanzata?" is a fairly intimate question in my book, and to hear it from a man who has just learned my name is ... amusing. 


			
				_forumuser_ said:
			
		

> To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? My impression is that although most people are careful enough to take stereotypes with a grain of salt, this sort of media drivel floats in the back of our heads and can surface in our thoughts and words when we least expect it.


I think it is natural. The thin crust of civilization commands that people be judged by their deeds, but time is scarce and the human brain is inherently imperfect - it is not surprising that we occassionally fall back on group statistics and stereotypes.

Jana


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## palomnik

For my part, I grew up in a heavily Italian neighborhood in New York, and later on I had the chance to spend some time in Italy.  What struck me most as far as stereotypes go was the difference I felt between Italian Americans and Italians.

One stereotype I found about Italians (and NOT Italian Americans) is that they are extremely difficult to get to know.

Another stereotype I found about Italians is their sense of humor, which is really very good, with a nice sense of irony.


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## francophone

Love italians and spent a lot of time with many italians, and yes they are often stubborn and are not tolerant, they are insistent, but they don't lack intelligence, on the contrary... Gotta love Italian food, and most italians i knew have nice bodies.

They sound great speaking Italian, and let's not consider italians as the cinematic sicilian mafioso style. They could be loud and funny and skilled when playing football/soccer. They love football indeed.

Like in my country, Italians are relatively poor(compared to other european countries) and it's not easy to find jobs and get a life, it's not easy to educate everyone on a high level and yes there are many ignorant people, but when a guy shoots students in a canadian university, it's not really worse than a bunch of idiots killing an officer after a game in Italy. 

They have style, and it shows. I recognize italians almsot immediatly. They seem crazy sometimes but sometimes there are dull people, they dress in colors. They've diverse characters, none the less they are recognizable and agreable.

Sometimes and strangely like in my country, when things don't work there's the "pinagina" stereotype, and it's usually hideous.

My first experience was with a very quiet guy on a plane, i was shocked, i thought of italians as talkative chatters, an hour later it turned out he was a big chatter, just with a low tone, when you get a bunch of italians together you will hear laughter. When you get a bunch of french around, you'll have a headache, get depressed and yell at them to stop talking. 
I'd rather italians


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## .   1

G'day forumuser,
Your description almost fitted Crocodile Dundee.
These movies are fantasies not documentaries and would you pay money to watch a movie about forumuser's life if there were no artistic licence employed.
Nobody with a three digit IQ believes that you can smash a chair across the teeth of an American cop and have him just grin at you and say, "Do you wanna make my day, Punk!" and the same people also do not believe that Don Corleone or Cassanova are typical Italians.
The same stereotypical thread could be asked about any culture that is portrayed in fictional movies.

.,,
What's the problem with your last point?


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## Victoria32

_forumuser_ said:


> I saw a similar thread on our neighbors across the Alps and thought it'd be interesting to open one on Italians. Typically, Italians and/or Italian-Americans on (mostly, but not exclusively) US-made films and tv shows are:
> 
> - very sexually active bordering sociopathy
> - handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way
> - not very bright and moderately ignorant
> - immature/excessively attached to their families
> - have a very strong accent in English
> - have an overly melodious, annoying tone
> - are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls
> - always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title)
> - living at their parents' home past 30
> - hairy
> - endowed with huge bellies after 40
> - lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent
> - often engaging in illegal activities
> etc. etc.
> 
> OK, this is a bit heavy-handed but you get my point. Now here's a bunch of questions for you. Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? My impression is that although most people are careful enough to take stereotypes with a grain of salt, this sort of media drivel floats in the back of our heads and can surface in our thoughts and words when we least expect it.


Well, there's a question! Italians I have encountered (in New Zealand and by chat and email, fit more or less, some of those stereotypes to some degree, but people are just human, whatever nationality they are. My son calls me an 'Italophile', but because of an experience I had with my student, I could if I wanted to judge a race by one person, just as easily be an Italophobe! 
very sexually active bordering sociopathy - fits one in the sample of 15-20. 
handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way - fits the same person. (A guy in NZ, maybe he's taking advantage of the stereotype? 
 hairy - no! 
lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent- now that fits my ex-student... but that's him! 




djchak said:


> I'm no sure if the stereotypes are really about "Italians" at all, but more how Americans view "Italian Americans" in the context originally provided.


Good point! 


. said:


> G'day forumuser,
> The same stereotypical thread could be asked about any culture that is portrayed in fictional movies.
> 
> .,,
> What's the problem with your last point?


Well, don't get me started on the way Americans portray the British in TV and films! (No I mean it, I had better not get started on that.  )

Vicky


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## jess oh seven

^ And vice versa, Vicky. The British do some appalling and embarrassing impressions of Americans!

When I think of Italians I think of mopeds and hair gel  But no, my grandfather was Italian and was forever making us spaghetti and pasta... does that make him a stereotype?


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## izabella

I'm Italian/American (born in Italy)



tvdxer said:


> Ahh, Italians!
> 
> Here are some that are quite common:
> 
> > Deeply Catholic *I am!*
> > Big families *Average really*
> > Sons who stay with their "mammas" until they pass 30 and are in love with them well past then (to the annoyance of their wives) T*hat's happening everywhere. I was just reading an article about the depth of this issue in US.*
> > Very gregarious and loud *Depends on their place of origin*
> > Speak with their hands as much as their mouths *Yes and no*
> > Absolutely obsessed with food, wine, and in general having a good time *Yes *
> > Americans tend to think of pasta drenched in red sauce and spicy meatballs, coupled with red wine when they think of Italian food / drink, rather than risotto, polenta, or pesto. *hahaha. No comment*
> > Prone to corruption, bribing, crime (Mafia!) *Again no comment, my family is Roman.*
> > Very close families + nepotism *Yes*
> > Black hair, olive complexion (again, this is how Americans see Italians - even though many from the have skin as light as Germans and even blond hair, most of the immigrants to the U.S. came from the South, especially Sicily and Campania, etc.) *We always make jokes that my dad is German not Italian because he is very light, But yes the typical Italian image is dark.*
> > Italian grandmothers / nonas: affectionate, spoil their children *Yes*
> > Italian (not so much Italian-American) men: "Lotharios" who are extremely aggressive and confident in pursuing women and yell catcalls *Lie ! The righ kind of Italian men can make you feel like a goddess! *
> > Wear sunglasses and leather jackets *Are you kidding me? By far the most fashionable. Nothing like USA where you see grown men with shorts and sandals going everywhere *
> > Insane drivers; think their little Fiat 500 is a race car *Some*
> > Law-breakers; need a reason to obey the law *Not all*
> > Obsessed with soccer (football, calcio) *What can I say Forza Azzurri.. Forza Milan..*
> > Speak with a sing-song intonation *It's the beauty of the language*
> > Tendency towards tackiness *Lie!*
> 
> (in other words, very similar to your list)
> 
> 
> 
> Some seem confirmed.
> 
> Others, disprove.
> 
> But I've met few "real-world" Italians, though I've known many Italian-Americans.
> 
> I tend to think of most posters as more educated, cosmopolitan people who don't display as many of the "stereotypical ---" traits as others might, but I would imagine you as living in an apartment and driving a tiny car
> 
> 
> 
> I like to read more formal texts (e.g. the wonderful _Culture Shock_ series) about the different traits certain cultures have, but the best way to know is to visit. I plan on getting to Italy on the Europe trip I hope to make God-willing in the not so distant future


 


_forumuser_ said:


> I saw a similar thread on our neighbors across the Alps and thought it'd be interesting to open one on Italians. Typically, Italians and/or Italian-Americans on (mostly, but not exclusively) US-made films and tv shows are:
> 
> - very sexually active bordering sociopathy *I see nothing wrong with it!*
> - handsome in an often flashy, vulgar way *Handsome yes, vulgar not always*
> - not very bright and moderately ignorant *Lie!*
> - immature/excessively attached to their families *It's because the families have a great bond*
> - have a very strong accent in English *Most non native speakers have a strong accent, don't you think?*
> - have an overly melodious, annoying tone *No*
> - are always eating spaghetti, pizza, or meat balls *Sure*
> - always singing (preferably songs with the word mamma in the title) *No*
> - living at their parents' home past 30 already *I'm sorry but I'm currently seeing a lot more of that in USA than anywhere else*
> - hairy *Nonsense*
> - endowed with huge bellies after 40 *No*
> - lacking in many basic social skills, are stubborn and insistent *No*
> - often engaging in illegal activities *Again not always true*
> etc. etc.
> 
> OK, this is a bit heavy-handed but you get my point. Now here's a bunch of questions for you. Do your experiences with real-world Italians validate or disprove the items on this list? Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? To what extent do you and people around you rely on such second-hand information in forming your opinions on other peoples/cultures? My impression is that although most people are careful enough to take stereotypes with a grain of salt, this sort of media drivel floats in the back of our heads and can surface in our thoughts and words when we least expect it.


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## Lombard Beige

Not to complicate the discussion, but I think we have established that the stereotype refers more to Italian-Americans than to Italians in Italy. IA's do of course share a lot of characteristics with both sides, but basically for the Americans they are Italians, for the Italians they are Americans ...

I wanted to add that the American stereotype of Italians arose because of the originally greater cultural difference between the host country and the newcomers. (This is not just my idea, I've read it in books on the subject).

In Latin / Catholic countries, like Argentina and France, the Italians assimilated faster, more completely and rose to the top of Society. In the English-speaking mainly Protestant countries everything took much longer. The same goes for Germany.

Taking the case of France, where 7% of the population has Italian roots, what would France be without:

Marie de Médicis, Queen of France, who took Florentine cooking to France, Cardinal de Mazarin, the composer Lully, Napoleon (Corsica was sold to France two years before his birth by the Republic of Genoa: "du coeur de l'Italie à la péripherie de la France" *), Gambetta, Emile Zola, Paul Valéry, the explorer de Brazza, General Galiéni, the man who saved Paris in WWI by sending troops to the front line in taxis, Yves Montand, Lino Ventura, Pierre Cardin, Michel Piccoli, Michel Platini ... So, the French stereoptype for the Italian is somewhat different, n'est-ce pas?

* Napoleon's mother, Laetitia / Letizia, when asked to comment on her son's success, is reported to have answered: "Finché dura ..." ("While it lasts ...".

Another piece of trivia: did you know that at the battle of Trafalgar, a large part of the sailors of BOTH fleets were Italians, Napoleon's from the North and Nelson's from the South?

regards


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## Pirlo

> Do any of these pop in your mind when you read "native of: Italian" under my username? Nope -- When I see "native of: Italian"  under a person's name, I just can't wait to meet them! I'd love to meet a lot more Italians, especially ones that are on this board, however, I don't have the confident to ask them!



Truth is, when I speak to native Italians, I'm *very* nervous, I worship every single one.


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## MünchnerFax

My experience abroad shows the by far most widespread stereotypes concern the body. Italians "have to be" dark-haired, dark-eyed, possibly not extremely tall, insanely obsessed with their physical aspects to the extent that they spend their lives training in gyms and wear only stylish fashion clothes all the time, otherwise they just dont't dare show in public.

BTW, personally, I violate each of them.  The thing I've been hearing the most in the last months when I meet someone new is, "_Ach, ein blonder Italiener!_ How come is that?!". And the next question is always whether my parents are Italian too or I have some scandinavian roots.

Then it's the turn of stereotypes about love, which you all resumed pretty much well.

But things in Europe are softer, I guess its nations have had enough contacts, particularly in the last decades, and know each other pretty good to banish stereotypes from their mind. For example, Germany is not that tidy and efficient, after all. 
This is actually confirmed when I meet someone who doesn't have the possibility (or even just the culture) to travel abroad and/or to come in contact with foreign people. They are usually great fans of sterotypes.


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## francophone

Physically, a typical italian for me would have thick brows, dark hair/or typical brown, and the nose is remarkable.


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## Lombard Beige

francophone said:


> ... and the nose is remarkable.



In Egypt?

regards


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## Jeedade

After living some years in Italy, I’ve found most of the stereotypes mentioned in this thread not to be true. The ones I found to be true are:
- Wearing shades after dark or inside. All the people I have ever seen wearing shades inside or after dark (anywhere in the world) turned out to be Italians. They seem to be the only people doing that. You can even see them lifting them up a bit every now and then to be able to see what they’re doing/where they’re going in the dark (then putting them back on). For me this is an absolute foolproof way of telling someone’s nationality.
- Chaotic driving and above all parking. Not so much reckless (although that you’ll see as well), but parking cars in the most impossible places, forming 4 lanes queues before the traffic light on a two lane road. Go to Napoli, you’ll see what I mean. 
- Lack of punctuality.
- Living with your parents until you marry. Almost all my colleagues at work do so.
- Businessmen with suits on Vespas.
- They absolutely adore children (I have a 9 month old baby, so I know). My better half and I started to nickname our baby our “labrador puppy” because walking in the street with her is like walking a labrador puppy, you get stopped every 10 meters by strangers with the “oh look how cute!” routine. Going to a restaurant for instance, in northern Europe the maximum you get is a smile, but most people have this slightly annoyed “couldn’t you get a babysitter” look. In Italy, everybody is absolutely delighted, the baby passes from table to table, is held and played with by every guest and the personnel in the restaurant


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## Lombard Beige

Jeedade said:


> ... Chaotic driving and above all parking. Not so much reckless (although that you’ll see as well), but parking cars in the most impossible places, forming 4 lanes queues before the traffic light on a two lane road. Go to Napoli, you’ll see what I mean. ...



Everything is you say is true and well put.

Re driving, etc.,  as you say, driving in Italy is chaotic rather than reckless. In fact the danger comes from the fact that everyone expects everyone else to be an excellent driver. Last year I drove from Italy to Portugal, and the only place where I found really reckless drivers was in France, but only in the cities. In the country, the French drivers seem to be very careful.

As for the parking a lot is due to Italian politicians who spend their time arguing about how to solve the problems of the world rather than solving what they could (possibly ) solve. 

Also, I live near Switzerland, and it's curious to observe Italian drivers stopping for pedestrians in Lugano, and Swiss (!!!) drivers NOT stopping for pedestrians in Como ...

regards

P.S. Re glasses, I wear photocromatic lenses, so I never have to take off, not even in bed  You should add also that Italy is a world leader in glasses, so there is a lot of advertising, but also as I mentioned before the light here is very intense and personally if I don't wear sunglasses it hurts my eyes; my wife didn't and she had to be operated for cataracts ...


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## MünchnerFax

Jeedade said:


> -Wearing shades after dark or inside. That's halfway true - of course, not all Italians act this way. I'm confident you have found a lot of Italians not wearing sunglasses even during the day.
> - Chaotic driving and above all parking. This issue is not just a habit, but rather a major problem in Italy because of inadequate infrastructures and poor mass transit systems. We could open an infinite discussion about it, and I won't. Just notice that Italians are normally used to parking in regular parking lots - when provided.
> -Lack of punctuality. Sadly true.
> -Living with your parents until you marry. Almost all my colleagues at work do so. As some other have pointed out, this is because of outrageous high housing costs in Italy. Moving out from the family and living alone, on your own, as is common in other countries, is just nearly impossible for most Italians. And I can assure you a lot of young people would do, if they could afford it.
> -Businessmen with suits on Vespas. This is connected with traffic problems. Vespas can easily be parked somewhere between a pavement and a traffic island.


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## Victoria32

MünchnerFax said:


> BTW, personally, I violate each of them.  The thing I've been hearing the most in the last months when I meet someone new is, "_Ach, ein blonder Italiener!_ How come is that?!". And the next question is always whether my parents are Italian too or I have some scandinavian roots.


One of my friends, in Bergamo is a blond Italian, who told me that he probably has German or Scandinavian ancestry.. I don't know. My student had (he still does, probably  ) have the most beautiful deep blue eyes, and he is from the south. 

Stereotypes don't make sense... but some have some degree of truth, and a mountain of nonsense is erected on that! 

(I wear sunglasses all the time, we have the highest UV in the world here... man, no one wants cataracts!) 

Vicky


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## Lombard Beige

Victoria32 said:


> ... (I wear sunglasses all the time, we have the highest UV in the world here... man, no one wants cataracts!)



Exactly ...

Re Bergamo, where I live, about half the people are blonds of various shades and about half dark, some very, and I'm talking about local people, not people from the South ... Also, many of the people here who have dark hair have light skins ...

Re German ancestors, etc, I think the genetic heritage goes back farther than that, to the Longobards and the Cisalpine Gauls, but even among the ancient Romans, there were some blondes ... The Austrians ruled in Bergamo for just 45 years, against the 300 years of the Venetians, whose blonds were proverbial, thanks to the painters ...

regards


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## Jeedade

Lombard Beige said:


> You should add also that Italy is a world leader in glasses, so there is a lot of advertising, but also as I mentioned before the light here is very intense and personally if I don't wear sunglasses it hurts my eyes; my wife didn't and she had to be operated for cataracts ...


I agree, but the light after dark or inside surely is not intense …  my remark was only that all the people I ever saw wearing shades after dark or inside were Italian, this doesn’t say anything about their usage of shades during the day (which I think is kind of normal), nor does it mean that all Italians wear shades after dark (I see it happen often enough though). 

PS: forgot about the pedestrian crossing ... pedestrians here actually thank car drivers when crossing on a zebra and the pedestrian traffic light is green (so they kind of have twice the priority), because it is that rare ...


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## francophone

Lombard Beige said:


> In Egypt?
> 
> regards


 
I don't understand your point.


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## Lombard Beige

francophone said:


> I don't understand your point.



Well, as you are, I believe, from Alexandria in Egypt, I was thinking of the noses of Nasser, Mubarak, Omar Sharif, or of your Libyan neighbour Qaddafi ... 

I think their let's say Mediterranean noses would be quite in place in Italy, and not remarkable. If you were writing from Shanghai, perhaps less so, no?

regards


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## francophone

Lombard Beige said:


> Well, as you are, I believe, from Alexandria in Egypt, I was thinking of the noses of Nasser, Mubarak, Omar Sharif, or of your Libyan neighbour Qaddafi ...
> 
> I think their let's say Mediterranean noses would be quite in place in Italy, and not remarkable. If you were writing from Shanghai, perhaps less so, no?
> 
> regards


 
That's what I thought, but i wanted to make sure before firing an answer, well it's not the size issue  . Some italians have this roman nose, straight and in place like you said, it's remarkable and i like it actually.


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## Lombard Beige

francophone said:


> ... Some italians have this roman nose, straight and in place like you said, it's remarkable and i like it actually.



Well, apparently Cleopatra, who was really Greek, also had a remarkable nose, so she must have had a good time with Caesar and Anthony. 

What you say is true, but not all people with big noses are that lucky ... In Italian, they call smaller noses, though not necessarily as small as Michael Jackson's current nose  and especially on women, "nasino alla francese" (little French nose) ...

regards


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## Lombard Beige

An Italian field test

Well, today I had to take my wife to Caravaggio, which is a beautiful litte town where the painter Michelangelo Merisi was born, for a FREE breast cancer screening. The town is wonderfully kept (almost Swiss-like), and I had no problem in parking my car in a FREE car park. However, as I intended to work on my portable computer, while I was waiting for my wife, I had to park in the shade, because it's a lovely sunny day (also FREE). Then, I discovered to my HORROR that I had left my working glasses at home, and so I had to remove my photochromatic glasses. Terribly embarassing ... I felt almost naked. But I managed to work all the same. On the way home, I observed the drivers coming the opposite way, and I estimate that 1 in 2 was wearing sunglasses, but I'm sure that the others had them in their pockets for later in the evening. Then I saw my SPEED displayed on an electronic measuring device: YOUR CURRENT SPEED IS 50 KM/H, which is perfect. But what a great idea to avoid fines for speeding.  
 After that, coming back to my own town of Treviglio (more, let's say, French-like), I had the sensation of crossing an invisible border, but I was still in the Province of Bergamo.

 regards


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## Cereth

So far I haven´t seen any mexican reply on this thread...well..
In my office ( a bunch of japanese and mexican girls agree with this list:

_note: this list does not apply for italian-american or Italian women:_

 Italians are very close to their parents/ family (we think that is adorable)
50% of Italian men are handsome
40% gorgeaus
10% nice
Most of italians are fantastic lovers and will do anything to please you
(is this a stereotype?  please tell me is not!!!)
Italian men are unfaithful by definition (tell me this is a sterotype....well most of men are unfaithful by definition.....)
It is 50% sure that the italian man you meet can cook better than you..

We don´t have bad stereotypes here for beautiful italian.


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## Bilma

The stereotype I have is

1. They are extremely handsome.
2. As Cereth said  "fantastic lovers".
3. They are noisy
4. About women...Very agressive


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## Lombard Beige

Ay Bilmita, eres adorable ... ¿Tienes novio?


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## cherine

I love Italians, I love Italy. Actually I love all the Mediterranean people.
Actually, really, truely, honestly, I can go on and on and on about the merits and great things about us, Mediterraneans, and draw a long list of false and/or true stereotypes.



But... would that be acceptable in this forum ?
I guess not 
Lists are not acceptable. Talking about favorites (even if they're people) is not acceptable.

Well then, I guess we'll have to close this thread, even if it's about one of my favourite people.


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