# gift from God



## August2

Здравствуйте!

Speaking at the Global Policy Forum in Yaroslavl,  Berlusconi said: “Sono persone che costituiscono _un dono del Signore_ al vostro popolo”.
In the English press: "Berlusconi said that Medvedev and Putin were _gifts from God_ to the Russian people.

In the Russian press the original sentence was translated:
 “Эти люди _даны Господом Богом_ вашей стране!

My questions: what about this variant?
1. Эти люди _дары Бога_ / _дары Господа Бога _вашей стране!

And what about my modified variants:
2. Этот человек  _дан Господом Богом _нашей стране!
3. Этот человек  _безоговорочное дарение/ подарок Господа _нашей стране!

Thanks for your attention.


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## Maroseika

Only # 2 sounds more or less natural.
More common saying is он послан (ниспослан) нам свыше.


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## morzh

Вот как это перевели уже украинские русскоязычные СМИ:

>>
*Шоу Берлускони в России: "Путин - подарок Господа"*


http://news.liga.net/smi/NP100181.html

>>когда Берлускони произнес самую эффектную фразу о российской политике: "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа вашей стране".

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As for my personal opinion - I would use a stable expression "ниспослан Богом/ниспослан свыше"


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## August2

Thank you, Maroseika and Morzh.

I am aware that the original sentence itself is rather “unnatural” from many points of view.
So, the original sentence could be: “Эти люди _ниспослани/послани вам свыше_”~ they were sent to you from above. 

Can I say “ When Adam saw Eve he joyfully said: this human being _дан Господом Богом_”?
To my ear “_подарок Господа”_ sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context (and in the other one – Yaroslavl’s - too).


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## Maroseika

August2 said:


> So, the original sentence could be: “Эти люди _ниспосланы/посланы вам свыше_”~ they were sent to you from above.
> 
> Can I say “ When Adam saw Eve he joyfully said: this human being _дан Господом Богом_”?


If human being - существо, it will be дан*о* богом.
Yes, you can say this but better "Это существо дано мне богом".


> To my ear “_подарок Господа”_ sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context .


To my ear this is just not in Russian.


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## August2

Thank you, Maroseika, for your corrections and your observation about "подарок".


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> To my ear “_подарок Господа”_ sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context .                      --=-
> To my ear this is just not in Russian.




В русском есть выражение "Дар Божий" или "Дар Господень". 

Любовь - дар Божий. (Love - God's gift)
Дети - дар Божий. Children - gift from God.

Но так же это выражение означает "дар" в смысле "талант, способности".

"У тебя Божий дар"  - you have a gift from God (you have great talent, like to music, math, writing)


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## August2

So, a really sacrilegious/blasphemous/sarcastic sentence, at least to many Italian ears, might be: 
_Сильвио - дар Божий_ (or perhaps, _дар Люцифера_).


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## galaxy man

I am not here to correct the Russian translation, and even less to pretend that I understand the Italian original, but from the situational context wouldn't it be possible to interpret Berlusconi's seemingly religious expression as something carrying a simple and entirely secular meaning?  Like the very similar English term: *godsend*, of which the American Urban Dictionary says this:
* *
*1. godsend *
When a situation is tense and unexpectedly something or someone arrives that completely eases the situation. In other words, a life-saver.
_If Kate can make it tonight to help out at the banquet, she would be a godsend!_ 
* *
*2. godsend *
A secular term describing someone or something exceptionally good
_This sephora blush is a godsend, you should try it; __ 
_


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## dec-sev

> "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа вашей стране".


 Можно пригласить переводчика на ветку "pitfalls of translating literally"


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## Old Raft

August2 said:


> So, a sarcastic sentence,...to...Italian ears, might be:
> _Сильвио - дар Божий_.



In today's Britain, or at least in the Southeast of England, the phrase "God's gift" is almost invariably used as a sarcasm (as in "he's a God's gift to women"). Surely it's the same in Italy? 
So I should think that when speaking of Mesrs. Putin and Medvedev, with their particular backgrounds and characters, Berlusconi was fully aware of the sarcastic interpretation. Whatever you think of him, he's a man of the world and he's not into licking anyone's behind.


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## August2

Old Raft said:


> In today's Britain, or at least in the Southeast of England, the phrase "God's gift" is almost invariably used as a sarcasm (as in "he's a God's gift to women"). Surely it's the same in Italy?  Yes, it is.
> So I should think that when speaking of Mesrs. Putin and Medvedev, with their particular backgrounds and characters, Berlusconi was fully aware of the sarcastic interpretation. Whatever you think of him, he's a man of the world and he's not into licking anyone's behind.



From a _strictly _linguistic/grammatical point of view, I think that there is a perfect equivalence between the two sentences  
_Дети - дар Божий_ and _Сильвио - дар Божий._ 

From a _broader _“linguistic” point of view, I would be more than willing to draw a (piteous) veil – piteous, from pietas.


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## dec-sev

Hello, August.
It's clear from your previous posts that you have a bias against the cavaliere  But you seem to be the only person here who have read or have heard the original speach (in Italian) and it's up to you to judge if the phrase sounded ironical / sarcastic or not. If it's the former neither   “Эти люди _даны Господом Богом_ вашей стране!" nor "ниспослан Богом" (without further context) will render the irony or sarcasm, I believe.


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## August2

Hello, dec-sev!

Thank you for your strictly linguistic remarks and suggestions.
I think I’ve learnt some interesting Russian expressions about “gift from God”.

My only regret is not  being able to understand the awfulness of the “Russian”  expression _подарки Господа._


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## Natalisha

August2 said:


> My only regret is not  being able to understand the awfulness of the “Russian”  expression _подарки Господа._



Questa frase non è così terribile. Ma l'espressione "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа" suona male, come, per esempio, in Italiano "Medvedev e Putin sono i regali dal Signore".


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## August2

Natalisha said:


> Questa frase non è così terribile. Ma l'espressione "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа" suona male, come, per esempio, in Italiano "Medvedev e Putin sono i regali dal Signore".



Sì, penso di aver capito.
In italiano, la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono (come)  *regali *del Signore" suona veramente male/buffo. Ma è una frase corretta dal punto di vista grammaticale.

Invece la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono/rappresentano *doni* del Signore", beh ... è imbarazzante 

Grazie per la spiegazione, Natalisha.


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## morzh

August2 said:


> Sì, penso di aver capito.
> In italiano, la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono (come)  *regali *del Signore" suona veramente male/buffo. Ma è una frase corretta dal punto di vista grammaticale.
> 
> Invece la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono/rappresentano *doni* del Signore", beh ... è imbarazzante
> 
> Grazie per la spiegazione, Natalisha.



Interesting. In English, same as in Russian, (here we would probably say "Godsent" in this context - something unexpectedly good and helpful, that comes right in time) there isn't really any mockery to the phrase. Unless one uses tone/mimics that makes it sarcastic, but then there are very few expression with a positive meaning that cannot be made into sarcasm when said in a particular way.


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## dec-sev

Сказать "подарки Бога" будет примерно то же самое, что и "дары Санта-Клауса"


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