# dans un mouchoir de poche



## french4beth

Hello foreros,

I know that the literal translation is 'pocket handkerchief.'

But, I'm wondering if it can also mean "in a nutshell" or "in summary" or something similar.

The context:



> C’était une belle soirée hier au Zebra Bar, au centre de Bruxelles, où se produisaient dans un *mouchoir de poche* les français de Pokett et les liégeois de Some Tweetlove.


(The writer is discussion what a great time she had at a local club listening to the above musicians).

Thanks in advance!


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## edwingill

I think it conveys smallness in a spatial sense


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## polgara

"dans un mouchoir de poche" means approximately "in a very small place". so i guess the mouchoir de poche, here, is a very small concert room.


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## misstiti

Also, when talking about sports you can say: "la course était serrée, ça s'est joué dans un mouchoir de poche".
Dans ce cas là, cela veut dire que la différence de temps entre 2 participants était très mince.
ex: le vainqueur a couru le 100m en 10s, le second a couru en 10s10


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## geve

Do you think that "in a nutshell" can convey both ideas ?


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## misstiti

geve said:
			
		

> Do you think that "in a nutshell" can convey both ideas ?


 
I've never used "in a nutshell" in that sense (dans un mouchoir de poche); i'm quite perplexed but i can't guarantee anything... 

At school, i've only learnt that "in a nutshell" means "in summary" or even perhaps "to conclude" (definitely not sure of that one though).

Need another opinion there...


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## Sirène

geve said:
			
		

> Do you think that "in a nutshell" can convey both ideas ?


No, it just means _in a few words, i_t doesn't convey the idea of narrow space.


> les français de Pokett


Les bien nommés !


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## misstiti

Merci bien d'avoir mis tout le monde d'accord


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## juliobenjimino

salut a tous

I have a petit problem translating the sentence below; I know 'mouchoir de poche' means 'pocket hankerchief', but I can't make it fit into the sentence. The article is about the popularity of Zidane in France.

Il est cependant dans un mouchoir de poche avec un autre sportif retraité : l’ex-tennisman et chanteur Yannick Noah

Is this a french idiom I haven't met yet?

merci d'avance!


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## Small Bug

Yes, that means "very very close". (Try to put some things in a pocket handkerchief and you will understand)


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## steph_SB

The gap/ distance between them is very small (popularity or during a race, etc.)


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## juliobenjimino

ooh thanks! does it work with physical closeness as well as metaphorical closeness? eg:

je peux pas le faire quand je suis dans un mouchoir de poche avec toi
I can't do it when you're so close to me

je suis dans un mouchoir de poche avec mon frere
I'm very close to my brother (emotionally)

Do the above sentences (which I have made up) work? Or have I missed the point?


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## octopopus

maybe because they aren t so many french sports men so rich and so popular, so they can hold both of them in a pocket handkchief!!

yes but it s not an idiom such popular! but you could think
eg :
"tout ce qu'il me reste après l'incendie tient dans un mouchoir de poche"
ou bien
"la competition entre les participants s'est jouée dans un mouchoir de poche"


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## juliobenjimino

merci beaucoup!


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## Small Bug

juliobenjimino said:


> ooh thanks! does it work with physical closeness as well as metaphorical closeness? eg:
> 
> je peux pas le faire quand je suis dans un mouchoir de poche avec toi
> I can't do it when you're so close to me
> 
> je suis dans un mouchoir de poche avec mon frere
> I'm very close to my brother (emotionally)
> 
> Do the above sentences (which I have made up) work? Or have I missed the point?


No, sorry. It works for ranks (in games, races, comparisons) not the persons themselves.


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## juliobenjimino

Okay, can I have another try....

- who do you think should win?
- I dont know, its very close

- a ton avis, qui devrait gagner?
- je sais pas, ils/elles sont dans un mouchoir de poche

ca marche?


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## steph_SB

Oui, ça marche.

Petite correction tout de même : "Je ne sais pas."


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## wildan1

geve said:


> Do you think that "in a nutshell" can convey both ideas ?


 
No, for a race it means _neck-in-neck_ or _down to the wire_

_" Les élections primaires entre Hillary Clinton et Barack Obama sont dans un mouchoir de poche "_
--RFI, flash d'informations du 11.2.08

_Clinton and Obama are neck-in-neck in the presidential primaries._
_The choice of the Democratic candidate for president is down to the wire._


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## Budd

From Le Figaro: "Présidentielle 2022 : un sondage donne Zemmour au coude-à-coude avec Bertrand, dans un mouchoir avec Le Pen." I'd translate this as "...a poll has Zemmour neck and neck with Bertrand and _pretty close to Le Pen_." Yes? In other words, not much difference between un coude-au-coude and dans un mouchoir avec?

Or would "with striking distance of" be better for dans un mouchoir avec?


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## tartopom

I guess they meant 'dans un mouchoir _de poche_', i.e., very close to LP.


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## le chat noir

"au coude à coude" means they are neck and neck, while "dans un mouchoir [de poche]" means he's (getting) very close to her.

The apostle of love is neck and neck with the harbinger of harmony, only a stone's throw from the valkyrie of benevolence.

Perfect time for an unfortunate accident involving a crane and a grandpiano. Ok, sorry...


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## Budd

@tartopom and le chat noir. Which is what I said.

The word is spelled _apostle_ in English. Benevolence is hardly the first word that comes to mind with Valkyries, but anything is possible...


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## le chat noir

Oops sorry, that's fixed. Anything is possible indeed.

The difference is, the _coude-à-coude_ implies they are vying for supremacy while the _mouchoir de poche_ simply indicates a proximity.

I'm not familiar with "neck and neck", I just looked it up. Maybe that does not convey the same idea?


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## Budd

"while the _mouchoir de poche_ simply indicates a proximity" while vying for supremacy, if my reading of right-wing French politics is correct. Possible, yes?


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## le chat noir

Mmm... That's not really what the French says.
Picture horses in a race, you got Zemmour in the process of overtaking Bertrand and Le Pen only a couple lengths ahead.

As for their rivalries, what goes on inside their heads is above my clearance level. I already have a hard time coping with what pours out of their mouths.


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## Budd

No, neck and neck or coude-à-coude does not imply overtaking: they're even, for the moment. And if you've kept up with their miserable politics, they are vying for supremacy, with Le Pen for the moment a bit ahead.


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## le chat noir

So head to head does indeed match coude-à-coude? No need for the horse race metaphor, then 

The time window for dropping the piano is closing fast. I doubt Bertrand will manage to scrounge up many more followers, while our new epitome of meekness can still expect millions to jump into his wagon of doom out of sheer hopelessness. Anyway, it's not as if I could do a bloody thing about it, so better fix myself a tall one and enjoy the apocalypse.


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## Budd

le chat noir said:


> No need for the horse race metaphor, then


Yup. That was the point. Go have your tall one and go to bed.


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## le chat noir

What a glorious day! I've earned a new idiom and a new boss!


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