# la



## seitt

Greetings

From ‘Dex Online’:
CEAÚȘ, ceauși, s. m. 1. Funcționar inferior la turci, care îndeplinea funcția de ușier, de curier sau de aprod (1) al curții.

Please could you explain the meaning and grammatical use of ‘la’ in this particular context?

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


----------



## farscape

Here is a short answer: a translation of the first sentence, preserving the meaning, would be _Low ranking public servant *in* Turkey_.

In Romanian we say: Bine ați venit la noi! -> Welcome to _us_ (our place, etc.)
la turci -> to /the/ Turks

Later,
.


----------



## seitt

Many thanks – could la turci also be interpreted as “(belonging) to the Turks”, perhaps?


----------



## farscape

Not quite, more like, in Turkey, or, to the Turks.

Best,
.


----------



## irinet

The preposition "la" (English translations: 'in', 'to' or 'at' - locative preps.) plays a locative role in our language, too.
1. Am plecat *la* munte. = I went *to* the mountains.
2. Am făcut-o ca *la* carte. = I did it as *in* the books.
3. Ionescu e *la* tablă. = Tom is *at* the blackboard.
Sometimes, but not your case here, as Farscape already pointed out, this prep. may take modal connotations like: He _*retired*_ = A ieşit *la* _pensie_.


----------



## seitt

Many thanks – I wonder if “la turci” corresponds with French “chez les Turcs”?

Please correct my history if I'm wrong, but wasn't Romania once part of the Ottoman Empire? In this case, the dictionary entry may be trying to say something broader than just ‘in Turkey’ ('în Turcia'?)– almost ‘wherever the Turks are and have been’, perhaps?

PS Courtesy of farscape:


> (cf. Domniţa Tomescu, the author of _Numele de persoană la români. Perspectivă istorică)_


Similarly, I imagine that _la români_ refers to Romanians in general, including those in Moldova and those who lived at a time when Romania did not exist as a political entity, as opposed to "în România".


----------



## farscape

Yes, it's pretty much the same.

And your educated guess servs you right about "la români".

f.


----------



## irinet

I would see 'chez les Turcs' more like 'among the Turks', which do not express possession.
When we say 'La români', we need to specify more, and this is very tricky because we are no longer in the _surface structure_, but to the _deep structure_ of what you want to underline here, and to this case, it  may refer to those Romanians' *common characteristics *spread all over the world ('_comme_ *chez* vouz'). No matter your history, my history might be, 'la' is, generally speaking, as locative as with the French 'chez' or with the British 'to', 'at' and 'in'. (surface structure)
As with the title "Numele de persoană la români", this is definitely pointing to *traits*,  *features* or  *characteristics* *of* a population and equals to *Romanian names*!  A similar situation could be: 'Romanian Food' but also 'Food *in* Romania' for 'Mâncarea *la* români'!
To conclude, *you have had a point to show  *an extremely particular and rare use of '*la*' _in your thread_! However, it does not come alone as it gets hidden semantical hooks, viz co-text and motivation.


----------



## seitt

Much obliged!


----------



## meirs

"la turci" should be understood as "la Otomani", that is, within the context of the Ottoman social/administrative/cultural framework - or simply "in the Ottoman empire" in English.


----------



## seitt

Many thanks, useful.


----------

