# Urdu: hotaa hai/ہوتا ہے



## Stranger_

Guys, I find it difficult to understand a sentence containing "double and successive honaa". It sounds awkward and meaningless when I look at it from English and Persian perspective. And what makes it even more awkward is that both "hotaa" and "hai" are in the present simple tense, come from one verb and mean the exact same thing, (*is *in English and *ast/است* in Persian). 

Consider this definition of the word "kavva" from UrduLughat:



> ایک سیاہرنگ کا پرندہ جو قد میں کبوتر سے بڑا ہوتا ہےجنگل میں بسیراکرتا ہے مگر صبح ہی صبح بستیوں میں پہنچ جاتا ہے۔


Why not simply say "hai" instead of "hotaa hai"? what is the difference? Please offer me a good explanation.

Regards,


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## Qureshpor

^ Please remember that Urdu is neither English nor Persian. So, comparing its tenses with those of English and Persian is not helpful. The sentence is neither awkward nor meaningless.

A black colored bird which in stature is (generally is....not on a particular occasion) bigger than a pigeon, it's habitat is (normally) a forest but (despite this fact), early in the morning it makes its way (habitually) to (human) settlements.

I hope this is a "good" explanation. If it is n't I hope other friends will offer a better one.


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## Stranger_

> Please remember that Urdu is neither English nor Persian. So, comparing its tenses with those of English and Persian is not helpful. The sentence is neither awkward nor meaningless.


You are right but how else could one learn a language? I have no other choice but to compare and translate whatever I read to one of the two languages I know in order to make sense of it. Haven't you yourself done this while learning a foreign language? 

Well, it is helpful in my opinion, not always of course but it mostly is. (I can give you some examples in PM if you wish)

It sure isn't and that's why I said "it sounds (to me, a neophyte Urdu learner)".

Thanks for the translation you provided. I gather that "hotaa hai" is not as assertive as "hai", do you agree?


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## Qureshpor

Stranger_ said:


> You are right but how else could one learn a language? I have no other choice but to compare and translate whatever I read to one of the two languages I know in order to make sense of it. Haven't you yourself done this while learning a foreign language?
> 
> Well, it is helpful in my opinion, not always of course but it mostly is. (I can give you some examples in PM if you wish)
> 
> It sure isn't and that's why I said "it sounds (to me, a neophyte Urdu learner)".
> 
> Thanks for the translation you provided. I gather that "hotaa hai" is not as assertive as "hai", do you agree?


You are welcome. No, I would prefer that you did n't.


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## Stranger_

As you like, sir. 

Would you please answer/confirm my last question?


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## Dib

"hotaa hai" - just as "kartaa hai", "jaataa hai" in the same sentence - indicates present habitual tense/aspect. Irrespective of whatever terminology your grammar references use, I hope you know what aspectual meaning this form has - that of habitual repetition. The idea here is that the event of crows' being bigger than pigeons is repeated habitually over time, space and/or individual birds.

I'd say, bare "hai" has a "point" aspect (or whatever the proper jargon is - Is there any other verb form apart from huuN, haiN, ho in Urdu with the same aspect?). It lacks all notions of repition and duration.

Therefore:
"kawwaa kabuutar se baRaa hotaa hai" (as a rule); but
"ye kabuutar us kawwe se baRaa hai" (just in this case)

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On the other hand, I think "kawwaa kabuutar se baRaa parindaa hai" is the only possibility. "hotaa hai" won't be appropriate. Will it? Why?


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## Alfaaz

The answer below is just an effort to provide help. Note that the English translations might not be the best, most accurate and/or grammatically correct, but they seemed like a good way to explain the concept. Other forum members could hopefully shed more light on this!

In the quoted sentence, _hotaa hai_ seems to impart the meaning of _is usually: _

قد میں بڑا (عموماً) ہوتا ہے - _is usually larger in size/height (at any time)_
قد میں (لازما) بڑا ہے - _is definitely larger in size/height (at this time and in this case)_
Perhaps considering another example and comparing it to English translations could be helpful:




_love *exists* as/*becomes* love
when (a) heart *joins/meets* (with another) heart

Film: Khalish Lyricist: Kaleem Usmani_
پیار، پیار *ہوتا* *ہے*
جب دل دل سے *ملتا* *ہے
*
فلم : خلش نغمہ نگار: کلیم عثمانی​


​Apart from the explanations above, this might be helpful. 

Lastly, ہونا is defined in Urdu Lughat as follows. Do the Persian words help at all?


> 1. *شدن بودن، ہستن کا ترجمہ، ہست ہونا، *پیدا ہونا، خلق ہونا، جنم لینا، وجود پکڑنا۔


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## tarkshya

This is indeed a difficult question. These subtle grammatical forms are very difficult to explain, but come naturally to native speakers.

I can understand your difficulty, i.e. how can a reader who is learning a new language as a second language discern the correct usage. I can only say that it can only come through experience.

Having said that, here is an admittedly weak explanation. I can explain on the basis of how the two different usage "feel" to a native speaker.

ایک سیاہرنگ کا پرندہ جو قد میں کبوتر سے بڑا  ہے

It sounds as if we are talking about a specific crow, like somebody's pet crow 

ایک سیاہرنگ کا پرندہ جو قد میں کبوتر سے بڑا ہوتا ہے

This one means we are talking about the entire crow species.
 
Hope this helps. As I said, I can't explain the exact rule, but with experience you will learn to appreciate the difference in the two usage.



Stranger_ said:


> Guys, I find it difficult to understand a sentence containing "double and successive honaa". It sounds awkward and meaningless when I look at it from English and Persian perspective. And what makes it even more awkward is that both "hotaa" and "hai" are in the present simple tense, come from one verb and mean the exact same thing, (*is *in English and *ast/است* in Persian).
> 
> Consider this definition of the word "kavva" from UrduLughat:
> 
> 
> Why not simply say "hai" instead of "hotaa hai"? what is the difference? Please offer me a good explanation.
> 
> Regards,


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## Qureshpor

Stranger_ said:


> [...]Would you please answer/confirm my last question?


No, I would n't agree that "hotaa hai" is more "assertive" than "hai". The former describes a general truth and habit etc while the latter points to a one off event.


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## Stranger_

I think I get it now.  One last question: Could "hotaa hai" be used when stating personal opinions? According to your explanations the answer must be NO but I still want you to confirm.

For example, can we say "Indian cuisine sab se mazzedaar hotaa hai" for "Indian cuisine is the best"?


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## Dib

Stranger_ said:


> I think I get it now.  One last question: Could "hotaa hai" be used when stating personal opinions? According to your explanations the answer must be NO but I still want you to confirm.
> 
> For example, can we say "Indian cuisine sab se mazzedaar hotaa hai" for "Indian cuisine is the best"?



To me it implies something like you are in the habit of eating out at different places, and have usually found the Indian ones to be the best. If you had said "sab se mazedaar hai", that would imply to me that you have some concrete justification behind it, not necessarily repeated experience. In fact, my feeling is that "hotaa hai" in this case is consistent with the expression of personal opinion, while "hai" would be more consistent with an assertive statement. Do native speakers agree?


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## marrish

I can't believe "hotaa hai" wasn't ever discussed before. It's so common that it seems impossible.

Yes, Stranger_ SaaHib, it can be used for expressing personal opinions, e.g. _merii raa'e meN jahaaN ta3liim kii sahuulat kam hotii hae wahaaN Ghurbat ziyaadah hotii hai_.

It's a general type of a statement. It is not about a specific place or time.

_mausam-e-sarmaa meN dhuup bahut kam hotii hae lekin aaj aasmaan bil_kul saaf hae._


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## marrish

Thread: Hindi: hota hai Thread: Urdu: Hota hai


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## Stranger_

I conclude that the best translation for it is "becomes" or "mii-shavad می شود" though it does not always hold up well.


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## Qureshpor

^ I would say your conclusion is not correct. If "becomes" was the best translation, it would have appeared in someone or other's example/s.


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## Alfaaz

^ It did appear in my post (#7)! I hope that wasn't misleading! This is why I had included the disclaimer in the beginning.


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## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> [...]I'd say, bare "hai" has a "point" aspect (or whatever the proper jargon is - Is there any other verb form apart from huuN, haiN, ho in Urdu with the same aspect?). It lacks all notions of repition and duration.[...]


I think in the right context, any verb can have a "point" meaning.

maiN *Dartaa huuN* nahiiN pahuNche gaa tuu ka3bah, ai a3raabii
kih jis raah pih jaa rahaa hai tuu vuh to turkistaan ko jaataa hai!
.......................

ek baar phir ham (us) qissah kii taraf *lauTte haiN.*


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## Dib

Thank you for the interesting examples, Qureshpor saahab. The issue seems to be quite involved.


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