# Transliteration of the word "responsible"



## arabist-1

What is the Arabic word for the noun “responsible” is it:

1) مَسؤُول     mas `uw l      (I`m treating the supporting waw as silent)

or

2) مَسئُول     mas `uwl     ( I`m treating the supporting yaa` as silent)

Do they both mean “responsible” - just with different spelling or is one a different word ?

Note: For both I have the same transliteration as:  mas `uwl


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## Romeel

(مَسؤُول = (مَسئُول = Responsible

أ= ـئـ = ؤ All are called Hamzah

The only difference between them is on writing

For مَسؤُول because there is ( ُ) we write it as ؤُ, If it is ( ِ) we write it ـئـ

مَسؤُول 
مَسئُول 

Thus there no word that is written as مَسئُول


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## Maha169

مَسؤُول is the correct one, 
مَسئُول is a common spelling mistake people used to write


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## WadiH

مسئول is the Egyptian standard. It's not wrong, just a different convention.


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## Hemza

WadiH said:


> مسئول is the Egyptian standard. It's not wrong, just a different convention.


Really?! I've also come across this one may be once or twice and I thought it was some unnoticed typing mistake! Isn't the ئ normally followed by a ي or any other letter than a و (like مئة, بئة)? Because I always thought that the ؤ shall be used whenever it is followed by a و or a حرف مضموم.


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## arabist-1

Thus in MSA the noun “responsible” = مَسْؤُولٌ

Based on indefinite nominative case, is this transliterated as: mas `uw lun


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## Romeel

arabist-1 said:


> Thus in MSA the noun “responsible” = مَسْؤُولٌ
> 
> Based on indefinite nominative case, is this transliterated as: mas `uw lun


Yes, it is pronounced like this: mas `uw lun


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## ayed

Both forms are acceptable


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## Hemza

ayed said:


> Both forms are acceptable


So is رئية instead of رؤية for instance? I'm not saying you're wrong, I try to understand the logic behind it.


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## ayed

Hemza said:


> So is رئية instead of رؤية for instance? I'm not saying you're wrong, I try to understand the logic behind it.


I only mean مسؤول/مسئول


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## Hemza

ayed said:


> I only mean مسؤول/مسئول


Why would it be in this case?


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## Romeel

Hemza said:


> So is رئية instead of رؤية for instance? I'm not saying you're wrong, I try to understand the logic behind it.





Hemza said:


> Why would it be in this case?



In fact, what the Egyptians did was that they imposed _the rule of not to repeat similar letters _above this rule (this what I think they did, but not sure), so instead of facilitating things, they made it more difficult!!

We are writing رؤية مسؤول شؤون (one easy rule)
As for them, they must learn to write شئون مسئول, but they cannot write  رئية .

Whoever takes their rule he must remember to write it as رؤية not like شئون


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## Abu Talha

One thing to note is that traditionally, hamza is not written seated over ي in these cases. Rather it is written unseated, over the horizontal line connecting the letters. So it is actually مسـُٔول and  شـُٔون, not مسئُول and شئُون. Except there isn't a good way to type this traditional spelling.

Other considerations are avoiding the repetition of similar letters (as has been mentioned), but also the pronunciation of the word when hamza is elided. Hamza was originally not always pronounced in some pre-classical dialects and Standard Arabic orthography reflects that pronunciation. Hamza was later added as a diacritic written in different ways: seated on existing alif, waw, or yaa; or by itself unseated.

So my thought is that when hamza is elided, if the word is pronounced _masūl_ then the مسـٔول spelling makes sense. (However, an attempt at the simplification of the rules of writing hamza in may have resulted in مسؤول.)

Otherwise if it is pronounced _maswūl_, then that also makes the case for مسؤول, except if repetition of waw is undesirable, in which case مسـٔول is again preferred. 

But I'm actually unsure how it would be pronounced with hamza elided: _masūl _or_ maswūl._


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## WadiH

Hemza said:


> So is رئية instead of رؤية for instance? I'm not saying you're wrong, I try to understand the logic behind it.



No it only replaces ؤو, with مسئول and شئون being the most common examples.  I think the logic is to avoid the double وو shape, as @Romeel said.


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## Salman1

Technically both the spellings مَسْؤُول and مَسْئُول are wrong. The correct spelling is مَسْـُٔول, with the Hamzah written without a Nabrah (notch). The spelling of the Hamzah is changed from being written on a Wāw as مَسؤُول because of the Classical Arabic rules for avoiding two consecutive Wāws. People began writing with a Nabrah like Yāʾ mistakenly as مَسْئُول. Now in modern times, with the vast majority of Arabic spelling conventions being "dumbed down" (no offence), it is also written مَسْؤُول.

All three spellings of the word are pronounced the same as masʾūl. There is no "w" in the pronunciation because the Wāw here is a long vowel and not a consonant.


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## WadiH

I haven't looked into this in depth but I think @Salman1 is correct that the Egyptian convention reflects the traditional orthography while the ؤو convention is a modern 'update'.


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## Aliph

Just a contribution from Hans Wehr’s dictionary


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