# היא מְדַבֶּרֶת‎‎‏‎



## MarX

שלום!

I've got some questions concerning מְדַבֶרֶת:

1) is the בֶ there read with a schwa sound, in spite of the niqqud? I'm asking because the book I'm using gives a schwa in the transliteration.

2) Is the word stressed on the בֶ even though it has a schwa sound?

Toda!


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## elroy

The word is pronounced _me-da-*be*-ret_.

The shva is either silent or pronounced _e_, depending on the word's phonetic environment.

The shva is not a schwa.


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## MarX

elroy said:


> The word is pronounced _me-da-*be*-ret_.
> 
> The shva is either silent or pronounced _e_, depending on the word's phonetic environment.
> 
> The shva is not a schwa.



So if we use *ä* to represent a schwa sound, then the word would be transliterated as:
mä-da-*be*-ret or mä-da-*bä*-ret?


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## elroy

The vowel sound in _me_ and _be_ is the same.  The only difference is that the latter is stressed.


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## MarX

I see.
Now I know that that the schwa sound in Hebrew can be stressed.

Toda raba, Elroy!


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## Nunty

MarX said:


> I see.
> Now I know that that the schwa sound in Hebrew can be stressed.
> 
> Toda raba, Elroy!


Yes and no. Please don't forget Elroy's salient comment in post #2. The Hebrew vowel _shva_ is not a schwa.


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## MarX

Nun-Translator said:


> Yes and no. Please don't forget Elroy's salient comment in post #2. The Hebrew vowel _shva_ is not a schwa.


Yes.
I do make a distinction between _schwa (sound)_ and _shva_.

What made me wonder more is rather the fact that *bä* in mäda*bä*ret has a _segol_. Which I thought should be pronounced as _(Spanish)_ _e_ instead _schwa_. I hope I'm not confusing you.


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## Nunty

The third syllable in מדברת does not have a schwa or a shva. I guess I am confused. Maybe you could restate your question or observation?


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## MarX

Okay.

We have the word: מְדַבֶרֶת

I'll use:
e = Spanish e
ä = schwa sound, like in English _a__bove_
a = Spanish a

I'll use _shva_ to refer to the niqqud.

According to the book I'm using, and Elroy confirmed this, מְדַבֶרֶת is read as _mäda*bä*ret_, with the stress on the _*bä*_, with a schwa sound.

The _beth_ there has a _segol_ instead of a _shva_ as its _niqqud_.
I was confused because normally, the _segol _would be read like _Spanish e_ instead of a _schwa sound_.

The confusion was added up because I can't remember any European language where a _schwa sound (ä)_ is stressed, but in  _mäda*bä*ret_ the stressed syllable has a _schwa sound_.

I hope I made myself clear here.


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## Nunty

MarX said:


> Okay.
> 
> We have the word: מְדַבֶרֶת
> 
> I'll use:
> e = Spanish e
> ä = schwa sound, like in English _a__bove_
> a = Spanish a
> 
> I'll use _shva_ to refer to the niqqud.
> 
> According to the book I'm using, and Elroy confirmed this, מְדַבֶרֶת is read as _mäda*bä*ret_, with the stress on the _*bä*_, with a schwa sound.
> 
> The _beth_ there has a _segol_ instead of a _shva_ as its _niqqud_.
> I was confused because normally, the _segol _would be read like _Spanish e_ instead of a _schwa sound_.
> 
> The confusion was added up because I can't remember any European language where a _schwa sound (ä)_ is stressed, but in  _mäda*bä*ret_ the stressed syllable has a _schwa sound_.
> 
> I hope I made myself clear here.


Yes, you have made yourself clear, but there is an error.

I understand that you assigned the schwa sound to the character _*ä*_, but I think that Elroy must have read it as _*ae*_. The fact is that the vowel in the third syllable in מדברת is not pronounced like the _*a*_ in above. It is a segol and is pronounced as such.

Hope this clears it up.


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## MarX

Nun-Translator said:


> Yes, you have made yourself clear, but there is an error.
> 
> I understand that you assigned the schwa sound to the character _*ä*_, but I think that Elroy must have read it as _*ae*_. The fact is that the vowel in the third syllable in מדברת is not pronounced like the _*a*_ in above. It is a segol and is pronounced as such.
> 
> Hope this clears it up.


So it's meda*be*ret (e = Spanish e)?
Because Elroy said that the vowel sound in _me_ and _be_ is the same.
I thought he meant a _schwa vowel sound_, just like what mytextbook (Langenscheidts) says.


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## Nunty

Yes, they are the same. Both are pronounced as the _*e*_ in b_*e*_nd in English.


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## MarX

I see.
Thank you very much!


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## elroy

Nun-Translator said:


> Yes, they are the same. Both are pronounced as the _*e*_ in b_*e*_nd in English.


 Yes, that's what I meant.  Sorry I wasn't clearer. 

I was under the impression that you thought the Hebrew shva was a schwa, which is why I provided an explanation of its pronunciation in my second post.

I realize now that the specific syllable you were asking about doesn't even have a shva.   The segol is more straightforward then the shva.  While the shva has two distinct pronunciation possibilities (zero or _e_), the segol is always pronounced _e_.  It is never silent.

Neither one is a schwa.


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## MarX

No problem.

Thanks for your help!


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## MarX

Sorry for posing so many questions, but I have a related one:

Is the מְ in הוא מְדַבֵּר pronounced as Spanish e (=English e in _b*e*nd_) or a _schwa sound_?


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## elroy

_Hu me-da-*ber*._

I've already told you the shva is pronounced either like the Spanish _e_ or not at all.  Those are the only two possibilities.


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## MarX

Ani hevanti.

Toda.


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## Flaminius

Well....  I _think_ the niqqud shva can be a schwa ([ə]) in natural speech.  For example, "picture," whose normative pronunciation is /tmuna/, is often pronounced [təmna].


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## Mjolnir

Flaminius said:


> For example, "picture," whose normative pronunciation is /tmuna/, is often pronounced [təmna].


Really?


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## Nunty

Flaminius said:


> Well....  I _think_ the niqqud shva can be a schwa ([ə]) in natural speech.  For example, "picture," whose normative pronunciation is /tmuna/, is often pronounced [təmna].


I don't think I've ever heard that pronunciation either.


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## elroy

Same here.  And תמונה is a very common word.


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## Flaminius

So there is no vowel between ת and מ?


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## Tamar

> So there is no vowel between ת and מ?


No, there isn't. If there were, it would have been an [e] sound.
Elroy said it right:


> I've already told you the shva is pronounced either like the Spanish _e_ or not at all. Those are the only two possibilities.


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