# искусствовед (в штатском)



## Espero Antos

Hello,

in a Russian book the mother of a character is defined as "искуствовед". What does that mean?

Many thanks in advance,

E_A


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## Wertis

Espero Antos said:


> Hello,
> 
> in a Russian book the mother of a character is defined as "искуствовед". What does that mean?
> 
> Many thanks in advance,
> 
> E_A



You have spelled it incorrectly. By the way we make mistakes in this word and related words very often in Russian. It is a very widespread mistake and I remember at school our teacher explained that rule to us many times. In the first syllable you write only one letter "с", but in the second syllable you use double "с": "и*C*ку*CC*твовед". In English it's "Art historian" or more rarely "Art critic". The term means a person who knows art very well and usually works as a lecturer who tells people about the history of art, different periods of the development of art and is an expert in one or several branches of art.


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## estreets

Recently I saw a discussion on something very close to it.
It was named "Fine Arts expert"
Does this make sense?


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## Espero Antos

Yes, Estreets, it does!

And of course you are right, Wertis: I have just double-checked and found out that I actually mispelled that term!

Many thanks to both of you for your quick reply!


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## Tiiba

Interesting phrase from the Soviet era: iskusstvoved v shtatskom. Literally, art expert in uniform. They talked to you if you sang about the government.


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## rusita preciosa

Tiiba said:


> Interesting phrase from the Soviet era: iskusstvoved v shtatskom. Literally, art expert in uniform. They talked to you if you sang about the government.


 
*B штатском* is the opposite of "in uniform", it means "plain-clothes"

P.S. I've never heard that expression. What does it mean "They talked to you if you sang about the government"?


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## morzh

Tiiba said:


> Interesting phrase from the Soviet era: iskusstvoved v shtatskom. Literally, art expert in uniform. They talked to you if you sang about the government.




"Искусствовед в штатском" - pretty much meant "a KGB officer".
It was an ironic way of calling them, when they would deal with people of arts and such.
"В штатском" would point to them being donned in civilian clothes but really belonging to the KGB.

In the same fashion there were "кинокритики / литературоведы" and such "в штатском."


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## Tiiba

I has a wrong?

I always assumed that it means "state-issued", and therefore "uniform".

Oh well.

Aren't most art experts plainclothes?


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## Espero Antos

Interesting ironical expression, this "art expert in plain clothes"  

Moderators, in the light of the latest posts maybe this thread should be renamed as stated above, in the caption of this post: what do you think?


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## rusita preciosa

A plainclothes art expert (*plainclothes* is an adjective)
sorry for off-top


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## morzh

Espero Antos said:


> Interesting ironical expression, this "art expert in plain clothes"
> 
> Moderators, in the light of the latest posts maybe this thread should be renamed as stated above, in the caption of this post: what do you think?




I thought the discussion veered off to the "искусствоведы в штатском", but originally was about plain "искусствовед".

Why change the thread name?


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## Espero Antos

To Rusita Preciosa: my understanding is that, as it is often the case in English, the expression (postponed) "in plain clothes" is equivalent to the adjective "plainclothes" (one word). Both are even ...BBC English  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/910661.stm)

To Morzh: because a title like "Искусствовед (в штатском)" would direct to this thread both those who (like me in the beginning) are only interested in the meaning of the plain Russian term "Искусствовед" and those searching for a translation of the Soviet-time idiom "Искусствовед в штатском", thus saving the need for the latter to start a new thread and for the moderators to merge the two resulting threads. But mine, of course, is just a suggestion...


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## cyanista

*Mod note*

I will rename the thred to reflect the development of the discussion. 

Espero Antos, thank you for suggesting it. Please note: the most efficient means of communicating matters like this to the moderator team is via the red report-a-post triangle.


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## Maroseika

As far as I know искусствовед в штатском meant a KGB officer accompanying a group of Soviet artists or smth like that abroad. Formally he was one of them, though in fact having nothing to do with the art, but just supervising the members of delegation.


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## Espero Antos

Cyanista, thank you for your tip! Next time I will use that "fast track" to communicate directly with the moderators of the forum at issue.

Maroseika, that's even more interesting! If the expression "искусствовед в штатском" could refer either to 1) "a KGB officer dealing with Soviet artists" at home (as pointed out by Morzh and Tiiba) or to 2) "a KGB officer accompanying Soviet artists abroad" (as you pointed out), I wonder if these two kinds of people might in fact be one and the same, i.e. persons working for a special unit/section of KGB whose specific duty was to ensure that artistic expressions and artists' behaviours be kept under political/ideological control?


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## Maroseika

Espero Antos said:


> Maroseika, that's even more interesting! If the expression "искусствовед в штатском" could refer either to 1) "a KGB officer dealing with Soviet artists" at home (as pointed out by Morzh and Tiiba) or to 2) "a KGB officer accompanying Soviet artists abroad" (as you pointed out), I wonder if these two kinds of people might in fact be one and the same, i.e. persons working for a special unit/section of KGB whose specific duty was to ensure that artistic expressions and artists' behaviours be kept under political/ideological control?


I'm not sure type 1) also was called искусствоведы в штатском. At least I never heard this. But anyway, if this is the fact, these two types were quite different. Those who accompanied artists abroad were nothing more than primitive spies and their only mission was to fix artists' behaviour and make reports. Basing on these reports the higher-ups could allow or forbid such voyages in the future and take other political measures in regard of the people.
But those who dealt with the artists locally had more difficult task. They were to watch the tendencies, mood, pattern of thoughts of the artists,  writers, scientists and other cultural figures, etc., etc., and  summarize this info for ... the hell knows for what, actually. But of course type 1 should have known the art or other field of their activity more seriously - unlike type 1, who usually did not know a thing neither in the art nor in anything else on Earth. That is why so many jokes about them and the expression we are talking about is one of them.
Type 1 was not funny at all...


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## Espero Antos

Great, thanks! Glad that you got rid of both types


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## Maroseika

Cannot bet for number 1 in fact.


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