# зарубaть на носу



## Holy Dinah

Hello,

I have a question about the Russian idiom _зарубatь на носу_, and specifically the phrase _заруби это себе на носу_. I've seen/heard this translated both as "put that in your pipe and smoke it" and as "mark my words". My difficulty is, these are really two different sayings in English, although both could potentially arise during an argument. For example, you could say "put that in your pipe and smoke it" when you've made some decisive point that the other person can't deny/ignore, as in, "You said it couldn't be done, but he did it, so put that in your pipe and smoke it." "Mark my words" is more predictive, as in, "You say it can't be done, but he's going to do it, mark my words." Which one is a better fit for _зарубatь на носу_?

Thanks for any help,
Dinah


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## Ptak

> зарубa*т*ь на носу


Well, I'm not an expert in English idioms, but I can tell you that "заруби себе это на носу" means: *Remember it very well.*
Usually the phrase is said quite strictly and it doesn't sound... nice, at all. At least for me. It reminds me the school times and severe teachers / parents and so on.


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## Kolan

Holy Dinah said:


> specifically the phrase _*заруби это себе на носу*_.


_*Let it sink in(to) your mind*, you asshole/bastard_. It is quite rough, so I had to add a couple of words to attenuate that.


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## Holy Dinah

Thanks, Ptak and Kolan, for explaining not only the sense but the tone. It sounds like it might correspond more to the English "get it through your head" (or the rougher version, "get it through your thick skull"). I'm glad I checked before ever using it!


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## Kolan

Holy Dinah said:


> It sounds like it might correspond more to the English "get it through your head" (or the rougher version, "*get it through your thick skull*").


Your version sounds more like* try to understand it with your little brain*. Russian *заруби (себе) на носу* means *memorize this simple thing forever, *lit. _make a hack on (your) nose_.


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## Holy Dinah

Thanks Kolan--you're right, "get it through your (thick) head" would normally be more about (rudely) telling someone to understand something than to remember something, although I think it could be used that way too, in the right circumstances. Overall, I will just commit to memory the fact that this idiom means "commit to memory" and may not have a perfect English match.


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## Kolan

Holy Dinah said:


> I will just commit to memory the fact that this idiom means "commit to memory" and may not have a perfect English match.


Your question that I asked my English-speaking Canadian friends turns to be a brainteaser for them. Hopefully, together we'll be able to find a closer match.

I just give you a proper example in Russian that I explained to my friends: imagine that a child would get caught stealing a worthless thing from a store. He is granted pardon for the first time, but his parents would tell him that this is the first and the last absolution, "тебя прощают в первый и последний раз, *заруби себе это на носу *(раз и навсегда)".


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## Glafira

By the way, I believe, the correct infinitive is "зарубить себе на носу", but not "зарубать"


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## Kolan

Glafira said:


> By the way, I believe, the correct infinitive is "зарубить себе на носу", but not "зарубать"


It implies "once and forever" so that the perfective *зарубить* goes naturally with the idiom. However, the imperfective *зарубaть* could be meaningful in different appropriate contexts, when it is used rhetorically, indefinitely, or applies to people or multiple, repetitive events (if single person), or to a negation.

Литература- общие вопросы. - Форум ОСТРОВА
*Зарубать на носу*? Считать цыплят по осени? Сидеть одним местом на двух стульях? Назначаю тебя модератором темы «Литература» на Островах! *...*
farisles.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1822&mode=threaded - 64k -

[Твинцест]
...и я так не считаю, и *зарубать на носу* не собираюсь. Вот скажи мне, какой в нём смысл?!
arts.beon.ru/2413-995-tvincest.zhtml - 109k

Грани.Ру // ЮКОС :: Арестован еще один юрист "ЮКОСа"
И это уже не просто знак адвокатам. На ус мотать и *зарубать на носу* предложено всякому мыслящему гражданину Российской Федерации. *...*
grani.ru/Politics/Russia/yukos/p.81133.html - 11k - 

писатель Юрий КУВАЛДИН - March 15th, 2008
Надо постоянно *зарубать на носу* каждого неофита: Рецептуализм - искусство второй рефлексии: само-из-себя творчество и - одновременно - само-в-себе *...*
kuvaldinur.livejournal.com/2008/03/15/ - 24k -

Свои произведения: кто готов дать почитать и выслушать критику *...*
Я рассказ читал довольно внимательно, и плиз, не принимай близко к сердцу критику. автор должен учитывать и *зарубать на носу* ВСЕ мнения всех читателей. *...*
forum.mirf.ru/showthread.php?t=382&page=11 - 120k -

Форум Академгородка, Новосибирск > Оценка качества обслуживания
*...* да и вряд ли кому еще на этом Форуме, позволено, по уровню знаний и компетенции в этой сфере, мне советовать "*зарубать на носу*". *...*
forum.academ.org/lofiversion/index.php?t198471.html - 93k

KP.RU
...*зарубать на носу* будешь своему папе, я с тобой баранов не пас, поэтому не надо мне тыкать, демократ тоже мне. Если ведёте дискуссию, предлагайте *...*
www.kp.ru/daily/forum/article/71653/ - 62k -


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## Holy Dinah

Hi Kolan. Yes, you never know, maybe our fellow Canadians (or others) will come up with an English idiom that matches. In the particular example you gave, the "thick head" phrase would work: "We'll forgive you this time, but this is the last time--get that through your head once and for all." (Actually, adding the "thick" here would be a bit much, but I guess it depends on a person's parenting style.)


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## Glafira

"зарубать себе на носу" - 4 examples in Google
"зарубать на носу" - 9 examples in Google
"зарубить себе на носу" - 4360 examples
"зарубить на носу" - 4620 examples
I doubt that nine or four examples are enough to say that it is ACTUALLY USED in this way. Grammar is all right, so in theory it COULD be used, but to my mind that cannot be treated as an idiom with this frequency.
Anyway, that's not what the asker wanted to know so that doesn't really matter.


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## Kolan

Glafira said:


> "зарубать себе на носу" - 4 examples in Google
> "зарубать на носу" - 9 examples in Google
> "зарубить себе на носу" - 4360 examples
> "зарубить на носу" - 4620 examples
> I doubt that nine or four examples are enough to say that it is ACTUALLY USED in this way. Grammar is all right, so in theory it COULD be used, but to my mind that cannot be treated as an idiom with this frequency.


Well, Google numbers are never relevant. It makes sense, however, to read and to compare each example pro and contra. Please review the examples on "*зарубать на носу*", cited with the help of Google, above.


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## Glafira

Idiom is an expression in the usage of a language that is peculiar to itself either grammatically (as _no, it wasn't me_) or in having a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements (as _Monday week_ for “the Monday a week after next Monday”)
I agree that your examples make sense. But first of all, they are rather uncommon and rare. Besides, the form registered in dictionaries, is "зарубить на носу" but not "зарубать". That's why I treat "зарубать на носу" as an occasional phrase, but not as an IDIOM.


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## Kolan

Glafira said:


> I agree that your examples make sense. But first of all, they are rather uncommon and rare. Besides, the form registered in dictionaries, is "зарубить на носу" but not "зарубать". That's why I treat "зарубать на носу" as an occasional phrase, but not as an IDIOM.


"*зарубать на носу*" does not contradict the definition given above. It has a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements. The fact that "*зарубать на носу*" is rare through Google search does not change the definition. 

On the other hand, it`s just an imperfective form employed in the same meaning, depending on context where the perfective one may not just fit for the reasons other than the definition of idiom.


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## KSSLW

Kolan, *зарубать *is an imperfective form of *зарубить*, but we're talking about popular phrase which has more than one century and it's correct form is "*зарубить себе на носу*". I can't post links yet, but i sent you a dictionary link where the phrase is linked to verb "*зарубить*" and not to "*зарубать*".

Thank you for so interesting discussion!


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## Kolan

KSSLW said:


> Kolan, *зарубать *is an imperfective form of *зарубить*, but we're talking about popular phrase which has more than one century and it's correct form is "*зарубить себе на носу*". I can't post links yet, but i sent you a dictionary link where the phrase is linked to verb "*зарубить*" and not to "*зарубать*".


In most dictionaries perfective and imperfective forms do not have separate articles, only separate entries. The rest is grammatical issues. 

So, you think that there may be only one correct form, perfective. What do you think about the bunch of different examples above?


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