# EN: you can count on his being there



## evazelite

Bonjour !
Je comprends le sens de la phrase "you can count in his being there" qui veut probablement dire "tu peux compter sur lui pour être là" mais 
je ne comprends pas l'emploi de his. pourquoi pas "him" dans ce cas : "you can count on him for being there" ?
Est-ce que c'est une expression idiomatique ?

Par exemple, est-ce qu'on pourrait dire aussi "you can appreciate his giving us a car" ? 

Merci beaucoup !


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## Suehil

'Being there' is a gerund phrase, which works like a noun.  So, like 'his car' or 'his house', 'his being there' is correct, as is 'his giving us a car'
You will often hear 'you can count on him being there', but it is not correct.


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## Kelly B

Yes - it's rather like _compter sur sa présence_, I think.


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## Physics Guy

What Suehil wrote is exactly true in U.S. English also.

"You can count on him being there" is heard and perfectly understood, but is a little uneducated in a formal situation (some native speakers would not be aware of the "proper" phrasing).  If a native French speaker said it to me, I would be impressed, though.  It's just colloquial usage.


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## brian

From here:



> Gerund phrases should be treated as singular nouns:
> 
> 
> Encountering busy signals is a problem for customers.
> 
> 
> Because gerund phrases function as nouns, they require the possessive form:
> 
> 
> Her refusing his offer led to a break in their relations.



Can you say in French, "Tu peux compter sur son être là"?


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## marget

brian8733 said:


> From here:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you say in French, "Tu peux compter sur son être là"?


 
I don't think it's grammatically correct.


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## ajglywakyta

How about, can you say:
Tu peux compter sur lui d'être là.

--If not, why is it "pour" in this case?


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## geostan

ajglywakyta said:


> How about, can you say:
> Tu peux compter sur lui d'être là.
> 
> --If not, why is it "pour" in this case?



Since compter does not take _à_ or _de_ with a following infinitive, the short answer is no, using _de_ is not an option.

Explaining _pour_ is tough. I would simply suggest that the following formula is usual:

compter sur quelqu'un (pour + infinitive)

Perhaps someone else can come up with a reason, though it's not always possible to explain a construction.

Cheers!


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## LV4-26

Kelly B said:


> Yes - it's rather like _compter sur sa présence_, I think.


Yes, that would be the most natural translation.


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## Fred_C

geostan said:


> Since compter does not take _à_ or _de_ with a following infinitive, the short answer is no, using _de_ is not an option.
> 
> Explaining _pour_ is tough. I would simply suggest that the following formula is usual:
> 
> compter sur quelqu'un (pour + infinitive)
> 
> Perhaps someone else can come up with a reason, though it's not always possible to explain a construction.
> 
> Cheers!


My try : 
Perhaps the sentence "Je compte sur lui d'être là" vient de l'anglais "I count on him to be there" ?
If this english sentence is not correct, then please tell me, and forget the following, I will remove this post.
If it is correct, then :
"on him to be there" is a infinitive clause in English that acts as a complement for the verb "to count".
In french, such clauses cannot be used, you must use a subordinate clause in the subjunctive instead : "Je compte qu'il soit là".
In the sentence "Je compte sur lui pour être là", there are *two *complements : The first one is "sur lui". (I count on him) The second one is "pour être là". You could have a nominal complement instead of this second complement : "Je compte sur lui pour la fête".
The second complement is simply a complement of scope. (that is why the "pour")


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## tramtramno

Hi everyone.

My 2 cents:

-> "Tu peux compter sur lui pour être là" is correct (as geostan states, the idiomatic construction in french is "compter sur qqun pour faire qqch"). It underlines slightly the fact that "you cacn count on him", and suggests that the person is generally reliable.
-> "Tu peux compter sur sa présence" is also correct, and underlines the fact that "you can count on the fact that he will be there". Therefore I feel that this could be even closer to the english "his being there" (gerund phrase). 
-> "Je compte sur lui d'être là" is incorrect (and will not be used by any french speaking person)


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## geostan

Fred_C said:


> My try :
> Perhaps the sentence "Je compte sur lui d'être là" vient de l'anglais "I count on him to be there" ?
> If this english sentence is not correct, then please tell me, and forget the following, I will remove this post.
> If it is correct, then :
> "on him to be there" is a infinitive clause in English that acts as a complement for the verb "to count".
> In french, such clauses cannot be used, you must use a subordinate clause in the subjunctive instead : "Je compte qu'il soit là".
> In the sentence "Je compte sur lui pour être là", there are *two *complements : The first one is "sur lui". (I count on him) The second one is "pour être là". You could have a nominal complement instead of this second complement : "Je compte sur lui pour la fête".
> The second complement is simply a complement of scope. (that is why the "pour")



Yes, your first sentence is possible.

Cheers!


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## ajglywakyta

Merci.  I knew by ear that it required "pour", but I wasn't sure why.  You've answered my question.


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## marget

Bonjour,  

I've often wondered if we use "pour + infinitive" in instances where we have a verb+infinitive construction that doesn't fall into a category of a verb followed directly, by à or by de+complementary infinitive.


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