# solitude / loneliness



## ThomasK

We had a thread on loneliness long time ago, but only gradually did the distinction turn up between solitude and loneliness. Colorado Grandma illustrated that in a perfect way: 


colorado grandma said:


> Sometimes I am lonely thanking about friends who have died, but I am often very content in my solitude, listening to music, doing needlework, or reflecting on the past.


 So I would like to focus on that distinction here.

In Dutch there is something like "*alleen-zijn*" vs. the generally pejorative "*eenzaamheid*". "Alleen-zijn" is not really a new word, just literally some kind of noun, consisting of V + AJ "being alone".  But to some extent "eenzaamheid" might be descriptive as well, but then some ambiguity is not excluded.

I would not be surprised if there were no specific words for "solitude"...

_Some of the answers from the original thread: _



TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Hi everyone! In Catalan, as someone pointed out, there is the word *solitud*, but then there is also *soledat*.
> 
> As Colorado Grandma said, there is a difference between these words: one sometimes searches for *solitud* and is very happy about it (_solitude_), whilst *soledat* is the unwanted *solitud* (_loneliness_). Then a songwriter from Majorca that I adore (Joan Miquel Oliver from the band "Antònia Font") made up a great word to express solitude, which is *TOTSOLESA*.
> 
> In English there is "*aloneness*" as well.
> 
> Have a good day all wherever you are, the *lonely* ones, the *solitary* ones and those in company!


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## Yendred

As far as I can read concerning English, _solitude_ is a state (of being alone), voluntary or involuntary, while _loneliness _is a feeling of sadness due to solitude.

In French, both words translate into "_solitude_" [sɔlityd]. In order to focus on the difference, one can use the expression "_sentiment de solitude_" (lit. _feeling of loneliness_) to translate _loneliness_.

Some etymology:
_loneliness/lonely _are cognate with _alone_, derivated from "_all one_", so an Anglo-Saxon origin.
_solitude _comes from Latin, in which the equivalent word meant "_being alone_".


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## ThomasK

Had not thought of the distinction you make. But it seems correct. Our "eenzaamheid" (loneliness) can be both, whereas "eenzaam" as such (with "be"/"feel") only refers to the negative feeling, I think. ISomehow they are very close, and somehow it is easier with the adj.:* alone vs. lonely *are clearly distinguished in both German, English and Dutch. I think it would not be that easy in French: there is mainly "*seul*", I suppose, and adding words must help to make the difference clear, don't you think.


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## Yendred

ThomasK said:


> I think it would not be that easy in French: there is mainly "*seul*", I suppose, and adding words must help to make the difference clear, don't you think



No, in French the distinction is clear in this case: we have "_seul_" (alone) and "_solitaire_" (lonely).

By the way, in English it seems you can both say "_I feel alone_" and "_I feel lonely_". I guess the latter is more common but is there any nuance?


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## ThomasK

Really, I knew "solitaire", but is it really a perfect synonym of "lonely". I thought it was used mainly attributively: _*un chasseur (?) solitaire*_, and that then the person maybe even enjoys his free solitude. But maybe I am completely mistaken...

_*Alone/ lonely*_: difference? I am really convinced: state/ feeling...


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## nimak

In *Macedonian* there are two words:

_(the state) _*самотија* /sa'mɔtija/ f. _"solitude"; _*сам* /sam/ adv. pron. adj. m._ "alone", "himself", "self", "solo"._
_(the feeling) _*осаменост* /ɔ'samɛnɔst/ f. _"loneliness"; _*осамен* /'ɔsamɛn/ adj. m._ "lonely"._
The root is *сам* (sam).

You may live in _"samotija"_ (alone, isolated) but to not feel _"osamenost"_.
You may live surrounded by many people but still to feel _"osamenost"_.


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## ThomasK

So the same root, but the /o/ is added and there is another ending. Which of both "causes" the change of meaning [if that can be explained]?


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## Yendred

ThomasK said:


> Really, I knew "solitaire", but is it really a perfect synonym of "lonely". I thought it was used mainly attributively: _*un chasseur (?) solitaire*_, and that then the person maybe even enjoys his free solitude.



Well, as French *solitude *translates both _solitude _and _loneliness, *solitaire *_translates both _solitary _and _lonely, _so it can both match a voluntary (enjoying) or involuntary (reluctant) state or feeling.

For example, the idiomatic English _"lonely heart" _can be translated by the (no less idiomatic) French "_cœur solitaire"_.


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## ThomasK

Not too much ambiguity then? It might be inherent (to the concept)...


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## nimak

ThomasK said:


> So the same root, but the /o/ is added and there is another ending. Which of both "causes" the change of meaning [if that can be explained]?


The prefix o- makes the main change of the meaning.


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## ThomasK

Thanks for the link. Supposing the root [meaning] is an adj., it would then mean something like  "making/ becoming-alone-ness "or something ("fientive prefix"). is that correct?


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## nimak

@ThomasK Exactly!


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## apmoy70

In Greek, both are *«μοναξιά»* [mɔ.nak͡sˈça] (fem.) < Koine *«μοναξίᾱ» mŏnaksíā* (fem.) with synizesis < Classical adv. *«μονάξ» mŏnắks* & *«μουνάξ» mounắks* --> _simply_ < Classical Greek adj. *«μόνος/μοῦνος, -ίᾱ, -ον mónŏs* or *moûnŏs* (masc.), *mŏníā* (fem.), *mónŏn* (neut.) --> _alone_ < *μόνϝος *mónwŏs (PIE *mon-uo̯- _alone_ cf Arm. մանր (manr), _small, thin_.).

There are more specific words for _solitude_, e.g. (1) *«απομόνωση»* [a.pɔˈmɔ.nɔ.si] (fem.), or (2) *«ερημιά»* [e.ɾi.mˈɲa] (fem.):

(1) MoGr fem. *«απομόνωση»* [a.pɔˈmɔ.nɔ.si] --> _sequestration, isolation, seclusion, solitude_ < Koine 3rd declension fem. noun *«ἀπομόνωσις» ăpŏmónōsis* --> _exclusion_ < Classical prefix & preposition *«ἀπό» ăpó* + Classical fem. noun *«μόνωσις» mónōsis* --> _loneliness_.

(2) MoGr fem. *«ερημιά»* [e.ɾi.mˈɲa] --> _desolation, reclusion_ < Classical fem. *«ἐρημίᾱ» ĕrēmíā*, with synizesis --> _solitude, loneliness, lack_ (PIE *h₁r(e)h₁- _to separate_ cf Lith. irti, _to disintegrate, decay_, possibly Lat. rārus.). 

One learned word for solitude is *«μονασμός»* [mɔ.nazˈmɔs] (masc.) but it's considered bookish (or even highbrowed).


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## symposium

Italian is in the same exact situation as French: we only have the words "solo" and "solitudine" which per se are quite neutral. And, just like French, if you want to describe a feeling, an emotional state, you need to say something like "mi sento solo" = "I'm feeling lonely". "Sono solo" simply means "I'm alone".


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## ThomasK

Interesting that the verb affects the meaning of the word. I think we shall end up concluding that they are basically the same, but that one is descriptive, the other emotional or something the like... As a matter of fact I think that holds for Greek too, I think: I recognize *monos *twice, but the loneliness word is marked by the *apo*- (which I associate with [taking] away)…

In Greek some religious, monastic words turn up:



apmoy70 said:


> In Greek, both are *«μοναξιά»* [mɔ.nak͡sˈça] (fem.) = *monnik/monk/ Mönch *(West-Germanic)
> 
> (2) MoGr fem. *«ερημιά»* [e.ɾi.mˈɲa] --> *eremitic/ hermit/ heremijt/*…


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## merquiades

ThomasK said:


> _*Alone/ lonely*_: difference? I am really convinced: state/ feeling...


I feel alone is more objective.  It just means no one is around you.  Nothing more.  You might prefer it that way.
Lonely is more subjective.  You are suffering because of being alone.  You'd like company.
Lonesome is heightened due to abandonment.
Solitude is abstract.  The condition of being alone, perhaps for a long time.
Solitary is without people, perhaps the most objective adjective


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## ThomasK

I beg to disagree: "I feel alone" is very subjective as some may not really be alone (there are hundreds [...] of people around) but they may feel alone. "I am alone" might be less subjective, but it can also mean: "I see myself as alone"... I would not be surprised if the line between the two were very thin. The fact that French and Italian do not have a separate word might prove that, and the fact that we do not have a separate word for "solitude" points in the same direction. 
@Awwal12 : Awwal might add information from Russian, but it might be parallel with Macedonian as both are Slavic languages...


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Awwal might add information from Russian, but it might be parallel with Macedonian as both are Slavic languages...


1. одиночество (odinóchestvo) - the state of an animate subject being alone, typically (but actually not necessarily, especially in idiomatic expressions) associated with the emotional distress coming with it; by extension, the state of emotional distress coming from the lack of some kind of social interactions.
From "одинокий" (odinókiy) - "lonely", ultimately from "один" (odín) - "one", "single" (< P.-Sl. *edinŭ); literally ~"oneishness".
2. уединение (uyedinéniye) - the state of an animate subject being alone (or the process of him becoming alone in that manner), which is percieved positively by him, usually the one which he seeks or is causing upon himself.
From Church Slavonic; an action noun tied to Rus. "уединяться" (uyedinyát'sya) - to seclude oneself. Ultimately from C.Sl. "единъ" (yedín) - "one", "single".


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## ThomasK

Thanks, Awwal, that was quick! -- But then there is no neutral, descriptive term, so it seems...


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## nimak

ThomasK said:


> Awwal might add information from Russian, but it might be parallel with Macedonian as both are Slavic languages...


It seems similar pattern like in Macedonian have only Serbian, Croatian, Slovenian and Czech languages. It seems Slovak, Polish and Bulgarian use the same root _"sam"_ but they have one word that covers both: the state and the feeling. At some of them the prefix is _u-_ instead _o-_. Native speakers may explain it better.


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## ThomasK

Well, in Russian we seem to have the /odin/ root, like the /een, one/ that we know in Germanic languages (al-one, all-een)…


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## Awwal12

On a sidenote, -sam- in the meaning "(only) one" exists only in a couple of stable expressions in Russian. Otherwise it just the usual "oneself" (as the adverbial pronoun, the intensifier and an optional part of reflexive constructions).


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## Armas

ThomasK said:


> In Dutch there is something like "*alleen-zijn*" vs. the generally pejorative "*eenzaamheid*".



Finnish has the same words:
_yksinäisyys_ "loneliness" < _yksinäinen_ "lonely" < _yksin_ "alone" < _yksi_ "one"
_yksinolo_ lit. "alone-being"
The former is usually negative, unwanted, but not necesarily. The latter is used for being single (not in a relationship) or being alone somewhere for some time in which case it can be negative or positive.


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## ThomasK

Don't you mean: the same root but different words? It reminds me of English (_*lone*-ly_ vs. _a-*lone, *all-*een *vs*. een*-zaam_)… In Dutch "eenzaam" as an adjective seems to have the strongest impact, "eenzaamheid" can be more descriptive like "solitude". "Alleen-zijn" need not be negative but it can be...

So difficult, and I suppose it is a common problem. Let me try to generalize, suggest a hypothesis: some words refer to a generally "negative" situation/reality (or generally experienced as negative) and in those cases the descriptive term can come to sound pejorative in certain circumstances… But: the need for a specific pejorative term is often felt.


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