# pitch accent in dictionaries



## Nino83

Minasan konnichiwa!  

I read that there are some minimal pairs in Japanese which have a different pitch accent. 
For example: 
ame (low-high) = candy, あめ, 飴
ame (high-low) = rain, あめ, 雨 

Do you know any dictionaries where the accent is indicated?  

Arigatō gozaimasu!


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## Schokolade

How about this one?  日本語教育用アクセント辞典

Or... OJAD → 動物園の検索結果

You could also use Weblio辞書（三省堂大辞林）: 動物園とは - Weblio辞書
For example, どうぶつえん is marked as [4], which means the pitch drops right after the 4th mora, so you pronounce it どうぶつ↓えん.


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## Nino83

Thank you, Schokolade!  
Do you know if there is any list about minimal pairs?


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## Schokolade

I'm not sure if this is an exhaustive list, but how about... 同音異義語のアクセント


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## Nino83

Thank you again, Schokolade. 
A last question. Shibatani says that there are at least three different dialectal areas (Tokyo, Osaka, Kagoshima, and a fourth one without pitch accent). I'd like to know if Japanese speakers of different areas when speaking standard Japanese retain their regional pitch accent. For example, do people in Osaka say _sakura_ (HHH) instead of _sakura_ (LHH)? 

L = low pitch; H = high pitch


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## DaylightDelight

People from Osaka region tend to keep their accent.  Some people don't lose them even after decades of living in Tokyo area.  (I believe it's a cultural thing.)
People from other area tend to use Tokyo accent when they are not in their home area.
It's interesting too see how they (inadvertently) switch back to their home accent when they talk with their family on the phone.


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## Nino83

Thank you, DaylightDelight! 
So the Osaka accent and the flat accent (north of the Tokyo region) don't create problems of comprehension, seeing that they keep using their accent also when they are in Tokyo, isn't it?


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## DaylightDelight

Yes, different accent doesn't cause much of a problem since we can tell what the speaker means by the context.
Also people of the younger generation tend to have lighter accent probably because they are used to the so-called standard accent.
Older people's heavy accent can be problematic.  After the 2011 earthquake in Tohoku area (that's northern Japan) and this year's in Kyushu area, it was reported that the relief parties sometimes needed 'translators' to communicate with older people in the area.


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## Nino83

DaylightDelight said:


> it was reported that the relief parties sometimes needed 'translators' to communicate with older people in the area.


Was it due to the different pitch accent or to the fact that these people spoke a dialect, with different words and expressions?


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## DaylightDelight

Nino83 said:


> Was it due to the different pitch accent or to the fact that these people spoke a dialect, with different words and expressions?


Both, I believe, although the difference in vocabulary played the bigger part.


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## Nino83

Thanks.
So, it is better to learn the standard pronunciation of Tokyo but a flat pronunciation without pitch accent doesn't influence intelligibility too much.


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## DaylightDelight

Nino83 said:


> So, it is better to learn the standard pronunciation of Tokyo but a flat pronunciation without pitch accent doesn't influence intelligibility too much.


Yes, I think so.  Accent is no so critical in Japanese as, for example, in English.


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## Nino83

Hello again!
Again regarding pitch accent I'd like to ask you if the "rule" that the particle takes the pitch of the preceding syllable applies to all monosyllabic and bisyllabic particles (high pitch in *bold*).
花を ha*ná*o vs. 橋を ha*naó*, 花から ha*ná*ka*rá* vs. 鼻から ha*nakará* (flower vs. nose)
箸を *há*shio vs. 橋を ha*shí*o vs. 端を ha*shió*, 箸から *há*shika*rá* vs. 橋から ha*shí*ka*rá* vs. 端から ha*shikará* (chopstick vs. bridge vs. edge)


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## ktdd

Er, particles don't take accents... they just continue the pattern. They are not marked in dictionaries.
花を LHL, 花から LHLL
鼻を LHH, 鼻から LHHH
箸から HLLL
橋から LHLL
端から LHHH
But there are some exceptions I think.
A textbook told me の cancels the accent if the accent is on the last mora of the previous word.
橋の上 LHHHH
And through my own observation, two particles in a row could sometimes create an accent, for example
橋の上には LHHHHHL


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## Nino83

ktdd said:


> Er, particles don't take accents... they just continue the pattern. They are not marked in dictionaries.


Thank you, kttd!
I'm asking this because I read on Shibatani's "The Languages of Japan" (page 179):


> All particles are not like _ga_, seen in (18), which does not have its own accent. Certain others have their own accents, and among these, some manifest their own accent only when the nouns to which they are attached are unaccented, while others always assert their own accent, obliterating that of the preceding noun.


I was wondering if all the "case particles" (wa, ga, o, e, ni, no, de, to, kara, made) were unstressed.


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## ktdd

Hmm, now you mentioned it, まで does seem to have its own accent when the preceding word ends on a high pitch.
Take 三階まで for example, I'm pretty sure it should be LHHHHL.


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## Nino83

Thank you!


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## mihi

Hey Nino83. You might want to consider getting your hands on a copy of "The Sounds of Japanese" by Timothy J. Vance. It has a good overview of how Tokyo pitch accent works in English.


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## Nino83

Hi mihi. It seems an interesting book (even though I'd be interested only in the seventh chapter).
Thank you


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