# I can't believe it has come to this



## StaceyLee

Ciao a Tutti,

Sto provando a tradurre l'espressione _it has come to this._ In questo contesto, significa_ un punto orribile/ patetico, oppure una situazione che sembra essere irreparabile._ 

We used to be best friends. Now we are not even on speaking terms. I can't believe it has come to this.

La mia prova:

Eravamo carissime amiche. Ora, non siamo in confidenza. Non posso credere che (abbiamo giunto a questo punto? siamo venute a questo punto?)  

Un'altra domandina: Si deve usare sempre il congiuntivo con _non_ credo che.../_ non_ penso che.../ _non _immagino che...?

Grazie in anticipo,
StaceyLee
P.S. Please correct my Italian!


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## giovannino

> Non posso credere che (abbiamo giunto  siamo giunte a questo punto? siamo venute a questo punto?)


 
I would say "non riesco a credere che siamo arrivate a questo" although "siamo giunte a questo punto" is fine ("punto" can be omitted).

Sì, devi usare sempre il congiuntivo con "pensare", "credere" ecc (che siano usati al negativo o no).


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## Bored_Employee

Direi:

Eravamo carissime amiche. Ora non (ci) parliamo nemmeno piu'. Non posso credere che siamo arrivate a questo punto. 

Direi di si' sull'uso del congiuntivo dopo "non credo che.../non penso che...", e' piu' corretto.

Ciao


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## sam1978

StaceyLee said:


> Ciao a Tutti,
> 
> Sto provando a tradurre l'espressione _it has come to this._ In questo contesto, significa_ un punto orribile/ patetico, oppure una situazione che sembra essere irreparabile._
> 
> We used to be best friends. Now we are not even on speaking terms. I can't believe it has come to this.
> 
> La mia prova:
> 
> Eravamo carissime amiche. Ora, non siamo *più* in confidenza. Non posso credere che (abbiamo giunto a questo punto? siamo venute a questo punto?)
> 
> Un'altra domandina: Si deve usare sempre il congiuntivo con _non_ credo che.../_ non_ penso che.../ _non _immagino che...?
> 
> Grazie in anticipo,
> StaceyLee
> P.S. Please correct my Italian!



Non posso credere che siamo arrivate a questo punto!

Sì, le espressioni: "Non credo che", "Non penso che" sono di regola seguite da congiuntivo.

Hope this helps!


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## StaceyLee

Giovannino, 
Sono confusa. Perché , in questa situazione, mi hai consigliato di usare "non riesco a..." invece di "non posso..."? 
Grazie!!! 
Stacey


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## giovannino

StaceyLee said:


> Giovannino,
> Sono confusa. Perché , in questa situazione, mi hai consigliato di usare "non riesco a..." invece di "non posso..."?


 
Scusami! Qui va benissimo anche "non posso".


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## StaceyLee

Grazie giovannino. Grazie a tutti!!!


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## kittykate

If you want to give more emphasis, you can say

_Non *ci *posso credere*,* che siamo arrivate a questo punto_

caterina


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## StaceyLee

Ciao Caterina,

In che senso? Non *ci posso *credere- *ci* significherebbe " di tutto questo"? I can't believe all of this? I can't believe all that has happened? 

Grazie,
Stacey


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## MünchnerFax

I think this thread deserves a rebel post of mine. 

Would a native really say _non posso credere che... _in the real life? Wouldn't he be more likely to use some other phrase, for instance _è incredibile che..._, _chi avrebbe mai detto/pensato che...?_


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## kittykate

Ciao Stacey,

Non *ci* posso credere = non posso credere *a questo*

Anticipating the idea in the main sentence "Non _ci_ posso credere" and then repeating it in the object clause "_che siamo arrivate a questo punto_", gives it more strength.

For _ci_ pronominale, check this link

http://www.vub.ac.be/khnb/itv/oktober/mei01/it01-05.htm

Must be a hell of a tough subject for non-natives! 

caterina


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## StaceyLee

So ci stands for _a questo_, not _di questo_... I just used the wrong preposition (credere a versus credere di) but I got the right idea about the emphasis?
Thanks for the link on ci, Caterina. 

Also, MuncherFax, I am _very_ interested to hear what natives have to say. I would be very interested to know if this construct would sound "artifical" to Italians and welcome your rebellion! 

Stacey


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## giovannino

MünchnerFax said:


> I think this thread deserves a rebel post of mine.
> 
> Would a native really say _non posso credere che... _in the real life? Wouldn't he be more likely to use some other phrase, for instance _è incredibile che..._, _chi avrebbe mai detto/pensato che...?_


 
Your "rebel posts" are always excellent food for thought so please keep them coming!

I think you are right: we often tend to stay too close to the original. However in this case I'm not so sure. Especially on its own, without a following clause, don't you ever say _non riesco a/non posso crederci_?


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## kittykate

Well, MF, I would definitely say _Non_ _ci posso credere, che tu non dica "non ci posso credere"_! 

I do say it, so I vote in favor 

Wait for more natives, Stacey, and then count ...

caterina


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## StaceyLee

Giovannino,

Would that simply mean, I can't believe it/ I can't believe this? Also, in the context I gave you, would you say:

Non riesco a crederci, che siamo arrivate a questo.
I can't believe it, that we've come to this. 
Is this right?

I' m trying to get a sense of what would sound natural, in terms of the whole phrase. Any other suggestions (if this does not sound right) would be appreciated!

Stacey


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## MünchnerFax

Well, I don't want to be too categorical, but I can't help linking _non posso/riesco a credere_ to Hollywood movies rather than to an astonished native Italian. I, personally, wouldn't say it. That's all.


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## StaceyLee

MuncherFax, I'd be curious to know how _you _might say the whole phrase:

I can't believe it's come/ we've come to this- in the context I've provided.

Your vote counts!!
Stacey


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## giovannino

StaceyLee said:


> Would that simply mean, I can't believe it/ I can't believe this? Also, in the context I gave you, would you say:
> 
> Non riesco a crederci, che siamo arrivate a questo.
> I can't believe it, that we've come to this.
> Is this right?


 
Yes, you can use it on its own or in the emphatic way suggested by kittykate.


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## StaceyLee

MünchnerFax said:


> I think this thread deserves a rebel post of mine.
> 
> Would a native really say _non posso credere che... _in the real life? Wouldn't he be more likely to use some other phrase, for instance _è incredibile che..._, _chi avrebbe mai detto/pensato che...?_


 
I see you answered my question already.


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## MünchnerFax

Yes, but I'll give you the complete sentences. And some more. 

_Chi l'avrebbe mai detto che saremmo arrivate a questo punto?
È incredibile/sembra incredibile che siamo arrivate a questo punto.
È da non crederci che siamo arrivate a questo punto.
Non avrei mai pensato/creduto che saremmo arrivate a questo punto.
Non mi sarei mai immaginata che saremmo arrivate a questo punto.


_These would definitely come before _non riesco a credere che_. In my personal choice, I have to add.


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## StaceyLee

MünchnerFax said:


> Yes, but I'll give you the complete sentences. And some more.
> 
> These would definitely come before _non riesco a credere che_. In my personal choice, I have to add.


 
Now I want to try to make sure I understand them:

_Chi l'avrebbe mai detto che saremmo arrivate a questo punto?_
Who would have ever thought we would have arrived at this point (in English/ come to this)?

_È incredibile che siamo arrivate a questo punto._
It's incredible that we've come to this.

_È da non crederci che siamo arrivate a questo punto._
It's beyond belief? that we've come to this.

_Non avrei mai pensato che saremmo arrivate a questo punto._
I never would have thought that we would have come to this.

_Non mi sarei mai immaginata che saremmo arrivate a questo punto._
I would never have imagined (we wouldn't say I wouldn't have imagined myself in English) che we would have come to this.

I wish I knew a way to say "You rock!" in Italian.  
Sei grande! - the best I can do on short notice.

Please let me know if I have misinterpreted anything.

Grazie mille!!!
Stacey


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## MünchnerFax

StaceyLee said:


> _È da non crederci che siamo arrivate a questo punto._


Literally, _"it's something not to be believed that..."_, which doesn't work in English, I guess.


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## miniraffy

MünchnerFax said:


> Well, I don't want to be too categorical, but I can't help linking _non posso/riesco a credere_ to Hollywood movies rather than to an astonished native Italian. I, personally, wouldn't say it. That's all.


 
I totally agree with you, especially on the Hollywood movies thing, but I actually would use the expression in a informal letter, but hey, it's my personal style, a way to keep my distance from a person who's hurt me and is no longer my friend.


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## StaceyLee

MünchnerFax said:


> Literally, _"it's something not to be believed that..."_, which doesn't work in English, I guess.


 
We say _It's beyond belief_, which literally means in English it's something not to be believed (just an easier way to say it). Also, I am assuming with every one of your examples the congiuntivo would be used... giusto?


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## StaceyLee

miniraffy said:


> I totally agree with you, especially on the Hollywood movies thing, but I actually would use the expression in a informal letter, but hey, it's my personal style, a way to keep my distance from a person who's hurt me and is no longer my friend.


 
Thanks miniraffy, a good point, and a distinction between an emotional reaction and a more impersonal reaction. I'm glad you pointed this out. I interpret this as the difference between what one would say in private (to another friend, for instance) and what one would say directly to the person who hurt him/ her.


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## perfavore

StaceyLee said:


> Now I want to try to make sure I understand them:
> 
> _Chi l'avrebbe mai *detto* che saremmo arrivate a questo punto?_
> Who would have ever *thought* we would have arrived at this point (in English/ come to this)?


 
Hi Stacey, 

I guess you did this because detto and pensato would convey the same context. I wonder if Italians actually have a preference between the two?


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## StaceyLee

Originally Posted by *StaceyLee* 

 
Now I want to try to make sure I understand them:

_Chi l'avrebbe mai *detto* che saremmo arrivate a questo punto?_
Who would have ever *thought* we would have arrived at this point (in English/ come to this)?
Hi Stacey, 

I guess you did this because detto and pensato would convey the same context. I wonder if Italians actually have a preference between the two?

- Perfavore, I did not even notice that it said *detto*. Who would have ever thought is a common expression in English, I guess I just made the association without thinking about it. I wonder the same thing as you.


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## perfavore

Hi Stacey,

MunchnerFax did give an example with the word *pensato *3 sentences below. I wonder if it would still sound natural for them (Italians) if detto was replaced by pensato in that sentence?


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## MünchnerFax

_Pensato _works fine too. _Detto _is just shorter!


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## perfavore

Thanks for the confirmation MF.


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## jjjones

MünchnerFax said:


> Well, I don't want to be too categorical, but I can't help linking _non posso/riesco a credere_ to Hollywood movies rather than to an astonished native Italian. I, personally, wouldn't say it. That's all.


 
I often use "non ci posso credere", I don't now why it sounds not natural to MünchnerFax, maybe a question of geography. Here in Sicily it'is perfect.
I'm curious to learn where MünchnerFax comes from.
Let us know,
ciao
jjj


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## miniraffy

StaceyLee said:


> Thanks miniraffy, a good point, and a distinction between an emotional reaction and a more impersonal reaction. I'm glad you pointed this out. I interpret this as the difference between what one would say in private (to another friend, for instance) and what one would say directly to the person who hurt him/ her.


 
It's exactly what I meant, glad you grasped the sense.


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