# min mou klais.



## Karina (Brazil/Portugal)

Hello my friends 

Me again, questions again 

Please, Look at these sentences:

min mou klais.
Ti mou kaneis?

I really can not understand why this "mou" in the sentence!

I know that *min mou klais* means Don't you cry
But when I read It the first thing that I think is: Don't you cry to me.

The same thing I say about *Ti mou kaneis*? It means: what are you doing? or How are you? (right?)
But when I see this sentence The first thing that I think's: What are you doing to me?

I would be glad with a help


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## balgior

Hello Karina! Nice to see you again! 

The first one is something like: "don't you cry on me!"

The second one... well, we wouldn't say "what are you doing on me?".  But it is the same thing, more or less, in Greek. The "μου", in this case, makes the phrase more tender and non typical!  But, if we wanted to ask someone "what are you doing to me?" we would use the exact words.


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## modus.irrealis

I would have thought that Portuguese would have something similar (I know Spanish and French do), where you use the the indirect pronoun to indicate some kind of (often emotional) involvement on the part of someone. I've often seen it called "dative of interest" or "ethical dative." Ah -- here's a link on "O DATIVO ÉTICO NO PORTUGUÊS E NO GALEGO" that may or may not be helpful.

As for English, there's really no way to translate it. Like balgior said, the "on me" translation only works for some verbs (and for me, it doesn't really work with "cry" -- "don't you cry on me" would mean to me literally "don't let your tears fall on me" ). Usually the English equivalent would simply ignore the pronoun and use tone of voice, or sometimes you could completely rearrange the sentence (in the right context μη μου κλαις could be equivalent to "let me see you stop crying" or even "let me see you smile") but then you're talking about equivalents rather than translations.


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## Karina (Brazil/Portugal)

I couldn't understand it so much and It was not the first time that I did this question  

So in these sentences the "mou" is just to make the sentence more tender, right?
We don't use "mou, my, meu" in portuguese to make the sentece more tender.
Okay, don't worry about how to teach me It, I will learn It with time 
Thank you my sweet Balgior  and you also irrealis


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## Tetina

Hello Karina. I couldn't see you and not respond...

Well, you have every right to be confused. The best thing though is to consider this "mou" as not existing grammatically. 
These sentences could be like that: "Don't cry, Karina mou" or "How are you, Karina mou" where you know the use of "mou"...shows tenderness, friendliness etc.

And also a question: if "don't you cry on me" is "μη μου κλαίς" how is to translate "μη μου κλαίγεσαι"?


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## balgior

Γεια σου Tetina! Γεια σου modus.irrealis! 

Actually, as modus.irrealis said, I must have taken this "don't you die on me" from the movies and, with some improvisation, made it "don't you cry on me"... 

But "κλαίγομαι" ~= "παραπονιέμαι/γκρινιάζω", nothing to do with "crying", right?


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## DimitrisXP

Tetina said:


> And also a question: if "don't you cry on me" is "μη μου κλαίς" how is to translate "μη μου κλαίγεσαι"?



I actually think a good translation of _"don't you cry on me"_ would be _"μη μου κλαίγεσαι", _while _"μη μου κλαίς"_ would be something like _"don't cry sweetie"_.


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## Vagabond

Actually, I wouldn't use "cry" for "κλαίγομαι" - I agree with balgior; κλαίγομαι = γκρινιάζω, so I'd go with "whine".


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## Christo Tamarin

Karina (Brazil/Portugal) said:


> Hello my friends
> 
> 
> min mou klais.
> Ti mou kaneis?
> 
> I really can not understand why this "mou" in the sentence!
> 
> I know that *min mou klais* means Don't you cry
> But when I read It the first thing that I think is: Don't you cry to me.
> 
> The same thing I say about *Ti mou kaneis*? It means: what are you doing? or How are you? (right?)
> But when I see this sentence The first thing that I think's: What are you doing to me?
> 
> I would be glad with a help


The question has been already answered. I have some remarks, anyway.



> min mou klais.


This means "Don't cry, my friend.", "Don't cry, my child.", etc.
This could also mean "Don't you cry to me." but in a special context only. Example: min mou klais se mena.



> Ti mou kaneis?


This means "What are you doing, my friend?" or "How are you, my friend?", "What are you doing, my child", "How are you, my child?" etc.
This could also mean "What are you doing to me." but in a special context only. Example: Ti mou kaneis se mena?



There are two relationships to languages in the neighbourhood that are to be mentioned here.

In Turkish, as in Greek, using *My *makes the phrase more tender.
On the other hand, the *clitic pronouns* are one of the basic features of the Balkan sprachbund.
At the linked above, the *clitic pronouns* are not described in its comleteness. The languages of the Balkan sprachbund have the category of definite nouns (so called articles/artra). Moreover, Greek was the first IE language infected with that feature, as far as I know. I have the hypothesis that the *clitic pronouns* feature is a kind of category of definiteness for verbs which has been developed by the Balkan sprachbund in addition to the already existing category of definiteness for nouns.


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## wonderment

balgior said:


> Actually, as modus.irrealis said, I must have taken this "don't you die on me" from the movies and, with some improvisation, made it "don't you cry on me"...



Hello world, and balgior!  Just to confirm (albeit belatedly ) that your intution about “on me” in “don’t you cry on me” was correct, at least in American English. I understand it to mean: “I really do not want to see you cry, so don’t do it!” For me, the equivalent of  "don't let your tears fall on me" would be "don't cry all over me" or "don't cry on me" in the right context. 

There are many verbs that could fill in the blank of the formula: “Don’t you ____ on me!” (cry, die, run out, quit, cheat, give up, etc...) They tend to be verbs of a negative connotation. In this context, “on me” means something like “to my disadvantage” (the Latin equivalent would be called “dative of disadvantage” , a type of “ethical dative”, as modus.irrealis has explained above). Can Greek "μου" function in this way, or does it only connote tenderness and affection?


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## mateo19

Hello modus.irrealis:

Your comment was very interesting.  It is true that in certain Romance languages, the dative of interest is very common, like in Spanish or Catalan.  It is, however, very uncommon to have clitic doubling, and thus this construction, in Brazilian Portuguese (I don't know about Continental Portuguese).  In Spanish one can easily say "no te me llores", "no te me pongas así" etc, but in Portuguese these constructions usually don't exist (I say "usually" to be safe, I personally have never come across any of them).  I followed the link you posted and many of those examples would not be uttered in Brazil  I'm not sure how Brazilian Pt. compensates for this loss. . . But that is the topic of a different thread!

Have a nice one, everyone!


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## Paciente

For those who know the song "no me llores" I think its the exact traduction...

To answer wonderment:
μου doesnt always connote tenderness, for example:
Πήγαινε, αλλά μετά μην μου κλαίγεσαι. (Don't come whining at me)

But it doesn't mean "to my disadvantage"...

τα λέμε!


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## orthophron

> Posted By *Paciente* For those who know the song "no me llores" I think its the exact traduction...


 
no me llores ???
I thought it meant  "do not mourn me" (μην πενθείς για μένα)


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## Tetina

orthophron said:


> no me llores ???
> I thought it meant "do not mourn me" (μην πενθείς για μένα)


 
Then it is "μη *με* κλαίς" and not "μη *μου* κλαίς" (if orthophron is right)


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## Paciente

Hello, 
I just saw that I never answered this post...

Take a look here:

http://arch.cubaencuentro.com/musica/dulcecantar/2002/09/19/9769.html

You can see that nobody dies in the song (fortunately!), it's one person crying in the arms of another...


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## anthodocheio

Paciente said:


> Hello,
> I just saw that I never answered this post...
> 
> Take a look here:
> 
> http://arch.cubaencuentro.com/musica/dulcecantar/2002/09/19/9769.html
> 
> You can see that nobody dies in the song (fortunately!), it's one person crying in the arms of another...


 
Άρα εδώ το "no me llores" μεταφράζεται "μη μου κλαις" και όχι "μη με κλαις" (που είναι το πρώτο που σκεφτόμαστε)???


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## caledonianstill

Por ejemplo: "tú no me llores más" significa "don't cry for me anymore".


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## anthodocheio

caledonianstill said:


> Por ejemplo: "tú no me llores más" significa "don't cry for me anymore".


"Don't cry for me" isn't it "μη μ*ε* κλαις"?


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## Dave London N22

I agree with Wonderment in a way about 'on me' in English. It's certainly something I'm very familiar with, and use frequently. But rather than having a sense of 'to my disadvantage', I think it just indicates a general personal/emotional involvement (which might sometimes be a disadvantage). Maybe 'on me' conveys a general sense of 'because your action will have an effect on me too'.

So "Don't cry on me" means "Don't cry, because it will upset me to see you crying". I can't imagine anyone saying "Don't cry on me" meaning "Don't let your tears fall on me" unless they were joking!

"Don't go all quiet on me" could mean "Don't stop talking about it, because then I'll never understand how you feel".

"Don't die on me" very definitely conveys a sense of "I don't want you to die, because I'll be very upset if you die": I can't imagine anyone saying it with the meaning "Don't die on top of me, please die somewhere else"!!!

When I first heard a Greek say something like "μη μου κλαις", I instinctively knew what it meant. 

As for the discussion about whether κλαίγομαι means "to cry": it doesn't. But this topic is about "μη μου κλαις" where the verb is κλαίω; and that definitely translates as to "cry" as far as I know.


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## jazyk

> So in these sentences the "mou" is just to make the sentence more tender, right?
> We don't use "mou, my, meu" in portuguese to make the sentece more tender.


Modus irrealis is right. We have the same thing in Portuguese. We could say Não me chore(s) or maybe more often Não vá chorar, hein! Não fique aí chorando!


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## Paciente

anthodocheio said:


> Άρα εδώ το "no me llores" μεταφράζεται "μη μου κλαις" και όχι "μη με κλαις" (που είναι το πρώτο που σκεφτόμαστε)???



Ναι εγώ αναφερόμουν στο γνωστό τραγούδι που ερμηνεύτηκε από το Buena Vista Social Club !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXd5kotXcHA

Βεβαίως σε αυτό το άλλο τραγούδι σημαίνει "μην με κλαις":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPGvnhN9eEs

Η ομορφιά της γλώσσας: δυο ολόιδιες φράσεις με διαφορετική όμως έννοια!


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