# у тебя остаешься - ты



## idialegre

Again, I have a question about a phrase from a poem of Цветаева. It comes from this couplet:

  Но пока тебе не скрещу на груди персты -
О проклятие!- у тебя остаешься - ты:

(Here is a link to the complete text: 
http://losty.ru/classic1/otv.php )

My best literal translation is: "But as long as I have not yet folded your fingers together across your chest - oh, curses! - you will still be there."

I am unsure about "у тебя остаешься - ты." Does it mean, "you will stay in your body?"

Also, I wonder why the dash is there between остаешься and ты. It would also be correct without the dash, wouldn't it?

I am grateful for all answers!

(P.S. I know that проклятие is singular. I used "curses" because it sounds more natural in English.)


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## Mr_Darcy

It means "you still have you." (literally, you still have you left with you)
It would also be correct without the dash, but apparantly the role of the dash here is to place emphasis on ты.


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## idialegre

Thanks for such a quick answer, Mr. Darcy. Not to be difficult, but I must admit that as a native English speaker, I don't understand what "you still have you" means. 

I'm not sure if at this point the problem is a linguistic one or one of poetic interpretation. But if you or any other posters could shed any more light on it, I would be interested to read your comments.


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## Mr_Darcy

Well, hm... 
It means that even if there is no one by your side, you still have yourself "by your side."
Does this make it any more clear?


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## Maroseika

idialegre said:


> I must admit that as a native English speaker, I don't understand what "you still have you" means.



Actually in Russian it also sounds very weird, nobody says like that. But Tzvetayeva needed to say exactly this.


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## idialegre

Thank you, Mr. Darcy and Maroseika. Now I do understand it, at least from a linguistic point of view. I still have to chew on it for a while before I understand the entire thought behind it, though.


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## Maroseika

idialegre said:


> Thank you, Mr. Darcy and Maroseika. Now I do understand it, at least from a linguistic point of view. I still have to chew on it for a while before I understand the entire thought behind it, though.


Good luck! At least having read and reread it several times, I still cannot say that can understand it. I'm afraid I need a translator from the Poetic to the Common language.


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## morzh

I am not sure what so awkward about it.

"I have myself", same as "У меня есть я" - quite OK things to say, when, for example, someone starts expressing unneeded regrets about someone being alone.
So "You have yourself"...not an everyday thing you would hear, but perfectly normal. Linguistically, that is.


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## elemika

Hi, people! 
One needs to read the whole poem (and more than once) to get the meaning.
I'm afraid my English isn't good enough to make the correct translation,
I'll try to explain:

I'll win you from all of the lands,
......
I'll win you from all of the times, from all of the nights,
....
I'll be more faithful to you than any of guard dogs,
.....
I'll win you from that only woman,
And you will be nobody's fiance'
......
....I'll take you even from that one with whom Iakov was staying at night
 But until you are alive (until I fold your fingers across your chest)-
Damn it! - you will remain the only one  who is having you  

О проклятие!_- у тебя остаешься - ты_:
Два крыла твои, нацеленные в эфир,-
Оттого, что мир - твоя колыбель, и могила - мир!

Look: without the dash: у тебя остаешься *ты* (you are still having *yourself* (and maybe you have nothing more); *ты* is accented.
With the dash: *у тебя* остаешься - ты (у тебя is accented) = ты остаешься *у тебя*: *you* are still having yourself ( not I)
Without the dash we'd need to put an accent: *у тебя* остаешься ты
Why?
... The world is your cradle and the world is your tomb


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## galaxy man

Poetry, of course, dies when put in ordinary terms, but here is an attempt:

This seems to be the oath of the abandoned woman to win back her beloved man from everything and everyone, especially from the one -- _у той, одной_ -- who's groom he shall not be.

In three meticulously crafted stanzas the poetess enumerates the enemies she must fight to become once again the only meaningful and worthy center of his undivided attention.

Then the realization comes that having excluded everything else from the life of her estranged lover, his isolation from detractors will still not be made complete: as long as he lives he will always retain his complex and beautiful inner self, that eludes the desired total possession by her.

Whether the phrase _*у тебя остаешься - ты*_ is unusual or not, is not the point: it precisely expresses the definitely _*unusual thought*_.

Which is the essence of the poem.

A memorable punch line: the more unusual, the better **


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## Ptak

galaxy man said:


> This seems to be the oath of the abandoned woman


It doesn't seem so to me. All the poem sounds like she never possessed the man she is writing about.


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## elemika

Ptak said:


> It doesn't seem so to me. All the poem sounds like  she never possessed the man she is writing about.


 
  Yes, of course  
 And now she realizes why:

 Оттого что мир — твоя колыбель, и могила — мир!

 He is as great as the world; he belongs to himsef - he belongs to the world; who can possess him? 

*у тебя* остаешься - ты:
 два крыла твои, нацеленные в эфир



galaxy man said:


> Whether the phrase _*у тебя остаешься - ты*_ is unusual or not, is not the point: it precisely expresses the definitely _*unusual thought*_.


Yes, but they both were very unusual people: they were great poets!


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## lenka-etka

I must admit that this is the first time that I've read this poem. Which actually helps, I think, because the mind is unbiased, and since they say that sometimes the first impression is the correct one, I decided to write about my understanding of this poem, and specifically, of its last verses: "у тебя остаешься - ты" (maybe, it'll help )
Throughout the whole poem she talks about how determined she is to win him from the earth, the skies, the other woman, and even God _("У того, с которым Иаков стоял в ночи") _- everyone and everything. She's very explicit about it, and it is clear to us that she loves him deeply and is ready to do anything for him. 
But at the same time, in the third verse there's a hint that she's so obsessed with him that she wants him to belong to her to such an extent that his opinion doesn't really matter: "И в последнем споре возьму тебя - *замолчи*!" She's like a mother who loves her child so much that she doesn't want to make him go, she wants him to belong only to her. 
So she exclaims *"замолчи!"* implying: "Don't interrupt me because I love you so much that I know what you need better than you do, and I don't want to hear what you think about it". And after she exclaims this, she realizes that even if she takes him away from everyone and everything and keeps him next to herself all the time, he will still have himself, i.e. his own thoughts, feelings, talent, opinions - his personality (that she, actually, is in love with). And this ability of his to think, feel, and express his feelings and thoughts that she cannot control and come in possession with leaves him a chance to escape from her. And only death can "close" this loophole, i.e. take his thoughts, emotions, talent from him.
... I hope I haven't made it even more confusing.


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## Ptak

Lenka-etka, I like your explanation very much. I think it's very correct.


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## elemika

lenka-etka said:


> I must admit that this is the first time that I've read this poem. Which actually helps, I think, because the mind is unbiased, and since they say that sometimes the first impression is the correct one, I decided to write about my understanding of this poem, and specifically, of its last verses: "у тебя остаешься - ты" (maybe, it'll help )
> Throughout the whole poem she talks about how determined she is to win him from the earth, the skies, the other woman, and even God _("У того, с которым Иаков стоял в ночи") _- everyone and everything. She's very explicit about it, and it is clear to us that she loves him deeply and is ready to do anything for him.
> But at the same time, in the third verse there's a hint that she's so obsessed with him that she wants him to belong to her to such an extent that his opinion doesn't really matter: "И в последнем споре возьму тебя - *замолчи*!" She's like a mother who loves her child so much that she doesn't want to make him go, she wants him to belong only to her.
> So she exclaims *"замолчи!"* implying: "Don't interrupt me because I love you so much that I know what you need better than you do, and I don't want to hear what you think about it". And after she exclaims this, she realizes that even if she takes him away from everyone and everything and keeps him next to herself all the time, he will still have himself, i.e. his own thoughts, feelings, talent, opinions - his personality (that she, actually, is in love with). And this ability of his to think, feel, and express his feelings and thoughts that she cannot control and come in possession with leaves him a chance to escape from her. And only death can "close" this loophole, i.e. take his thoughts, emotions, talent from him.
> ... I hope I haven't made it even more confusing.



Nice explanation, I agree
Nothing confusing


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## lenka-etka

Thank you.


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## idialegre

A big "Thank you" to everybody for their comments! You guys are amazing!

*<This is a topic for a new thread. Please re-read the rules.>*


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## purplehaze

This poem has been set to music a few decades ago. Maybe if you watch the video (find it on youtube Ирина Аллегрова) you will understand the context and the 'unusual' phrase 'О проклятие!- у тебя остаешься - ты'

The video is old-fashioned and not so stylish but perfectly explains that this story is much spiritually higher than just 'an oath of the abandoned woman'

Note the reference to Mary Magdalene in the video. According to the video, she falls in love with Jesus and wants to conquer him from all the universe. "Псов прогоню с крыльца"- may be the image of other Apostles. But О проклятие!- у тебя остаешься - ты: which means Jesus cannot love the way a man loves a woman, he doesn't belong to anyone and belongs to everyone at the same time. Pay attention to the way this phrase is repeated when sung.

The whole song symbolizes divine feelings for someone she can never have for this or that reason. All possible reasons are hidden behind 'you are left with yourself' or, to be more precise 'you/or things cannot change'.

The dash between остаешься and ты is optional, but in my view it can serve as another, visual this time, precipice between her and him.


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## LilianaB

The dashes are there because the poet wanted them there. It will not be fine without the dashes because the poet wanted them to be there, and it is her poem.


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## purplehaze

bland simplicity and poetry don't go hand in hand  but of course, what LilianaB says makes sense


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## LilianaB

What it means to me is that before you die, or before I accept your death, you still exist.


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