# to knock / beat / strike / clap



## ThomasK

At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
- To *knock *on the door, on the window,
- we *beat*??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
- the clock *strikes *the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
- to *clap *(our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
Feel free to add some more though

In Dutch I see parallels and some differences:
- op de deur *kloppen *(klop-klop), op het venster (onomatopeia...),  we kloppen op de tapijten
- we *slaan *op het deeg, dough, I think, het hart slaat, de klok slaat het uur
- in de handen *klappen*, onze tanden *klapperen *(>>>W we klappertanden), de vogels *klepperen *met hun vleugels, wings (-eren indicates an iterative form)


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## Olaszinhok

ThomasK said:


> To *knock *on the door, on the window,
> - we *beat*??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
> - the clock *strikes *the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
> - to *clap *(our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
> Feel free to add some more though


In *Italian *there are different verbs like in English:
*bussare *alla porta  - to knock at the door
*impastare e stendere l'impasto - *to knead and beat the dough ?
*sbattere *i tappeti - to beat the carpets
L'orologio *suona - scocca *l'ora - *segna *but also* batte *l'ora - the clock strikes….
We have *bàttere *le mani, i denti dal freddo… to clap our hands, one's teeth chatter when it is cold


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## ThomasK

Olaszinhok said:


> In *Italian *there are different verbs like in English:
> *bussare *alla porta  - to knock at the door
> *impastare e stendere l'impasto - *to knead and beat the dough ?
> *sbattere *i tappeti - to beat the carpets
> L'orologio *suona - scocca *l'ora - *segna *but also* batte *l'ora - the clock strikes….
> We have *bàttere *le mani, i denti dal freddo… to clap our hands, one's teeth chatter when it is cold


 Coudl _bussare _be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose… 
What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"? 
Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare": Is there a link between shooting and beating? Is it not something like "dis-V"?


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## Sardokan1.0

ThomasK said:


> Coudl _bussare _be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose…
> What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"?
> Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare": Is there a link between shooting and beating? Is it not something like "dis-V"?



I think that "stendere" comes from "extendere" (to stretch)

Regarding Sardinian language, we use many different verbs, like in Italian.


*tzoccare *_sa janna _- _to knock the door_ (the verb "tzoccare" is related to the noun "tzoccu" = noise)
*cumassare *- _to knead the dough_ (the verb derives from Vulgar Latin "cum massare" = to ammass with)
*iscuttinare *_sos tappetos_ - _to shake the carpets_ (from Latin "excutere" = to shake; from this verb also derives the verb "iscudere" = to beat)
_su rellozu *toccat *sas horas_ - _the clock tolls the hours _(in this case the verb "toccare" is not the same verb of "to touch", but when speaking about clocks and bells it means "to toll")
*tzoccare *_sas manos_ - _to make noise with the hands (to clap the hands)_
*ballare *_sas dentes pro su frittu_ - _to "dance" the teeth for the cold_


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
> - To *knock *on the door, on the window,
> - we *beat*??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
> - the clock *strikes *the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
> - to *clap *(our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
> Feel free to add some more though
> 
> In Dutch I see parallels and some differences:
> - op de deur *kloppen *(klop-klop), op het venster (onomatopeia...),  we kloppen op de tapijten
> - we *slaan *op het deeg, dough, I think, het hart slaat, de klok slaat het uur
> - in de handen *klappen*, onze tanden *klapperen *(>>>W we klappertanden), de vogels *klepperen *met hun vleugels, wings (-eren indicates an iterative form)


Greek:

- *«Κτυπώ»* [ktiˈpɔ] or *«χτυπώ»* [xtiˈpɔ] with dissimilation, and colloquially *«κτυπάω»* [ktiˈpa.ɔ] or *«χτυπάω»* [xtiˈpa.ɔ] respectively --> _to knock, hit, beat_ < Classical denominative v. *«κτυπέω/κτυπῶ» ktŭpéō* (uncontracted)/*ktŭpô* (contracted) --> _to crack, rumble_ < Classical masc. noun *«κτύπος» ktúpŏs* --> _strong noise, cracking, stamping_ (probably onomatopoeic but for Beekes of Pre-Greek origin, with variation between voiced and unvoiced stop: «δουπέω» (doupéō) vs «κτυπέω» (ktŭpéō)).

- We usually do not beat the carpets to dust them, we *«τινάζω»* [tiˈna.zɔ] them --> _to sway, shake, quake, toss, flip, twitch_ < Classical v. *«τινάσσω» tĭnắssō* --> _to sway, shake, quake_ (without a certain etymological explanation).

- *«κτυπώ»*

- Idem


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## Circunflejo

Some options in Spanish:

Golpear. To knock something (the door for example).
Aporrear. Like golpear but insistently and strongly.
Picar. To knock the door.
Pulsar. To press a button or a doorbell
Martillar and martillear. To knock something with a hammer.
Batir. That's, for example, what you make with the eggs to cook a dessert.
Aplaudir: to clap.
Dar palmas: to make palmas (a sort of musical rythm made with your hands)
Sacudir: 


ThomasK said:


> *beat*??? the carpets to dust them





ThomasK said:


> to clap (???) our teeth for cold


That would be _rechinar _in Spanish but it isn't related with knocking but with the sound that results from the knocking.


ThomasK said:


> we beat?? the dough to make cakes


Amasar in Spanish.
Agitar: For example, what you make with the bottle of orange juice before drinking it.


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## Olaszinhok

ThomasK said:


> Coudl _bussare _be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose


It shouldn't be onomatopoeic. According to some etymologists, it could come from High German _buchsen_, English _box_. For others, the etymology of the verb is related to the Provencal word _polsar, _akin to Spanish and Portuguese_ pulsar, pujar puxar_...
Etimologia : bussare;


ThomasK said:


> What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"?


It comes from Latin_ extendere. _The etymology of _stand_ is different, its root is similar to the Latin _stare_.


ThomasK said:


> Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare


Yes, we can. Obviously, each verb has a slightly different meaning. As for_ scoccare, _it is related to _shoot with a bow and an arrow 
Applaudire _obviously exists in Italian as well, but it has a slightly broader meaning than _to clap your hands - bàttere le mani_P

P.S. sbàttere derives from battere with the prefix S, like in many other verbs, conveying an intensive or an augmentive meaning.


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## Awwal12

Russian has a separate verb for knocking (imperf. стучать - stuchát') - prototypically, "to repeatedly strike into something; to make noise by such striking" (cf. also perf. "стукнуть" - stúknut' - which means making a singular strike of that kind).
There is also a verb for clapping (imperf. хлопать - khlópat', perf. хлопнуть - khlópnut'; curiously, it seems unrelated to the Germanic verb).
It also has ударить (udárit', perf.) / ударять (udaryát', imperf.) - meaning "to strike"/"to hit" (the imperfective verb implies making separate strikes many times), бить (bít'), which means, quite unsurprisingly, "to beat", and the largely synonymous, but stylistically limited колотить (kolotít'). Plus, unlike English, it also widely uses its derivative morphology to produce other verbs with related meaning. Beating the carpets, for example, will be described by the verbs выбивать or выколачивать (imperf. vybivát, vykoláchivat'), literally "to beat (or rather be beating) out"; cf. perf. выбить (výbit'), выколотить (výkolotit') - "to have sth beaten out".
P.S.: We've also forgotten about slapping - Rus. "шлёпать" (shlyópat', imperf.), "шлёпнуть" (shlyópnut', perf. singular).


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## Yendred

French:

To *knock *on the door, on the window  *Frapper *à la porte, à la fenêtre
To *beat* (???) the carpets to dust them  *Battre *les tapis pour les dépoussiérer
To *beat *the dough to make cakes  *Pétrir *la pâte pour faire des gâteaux
The heart *beats*  Le cœur *bat*
The clock *strikes *the time  L'horloge *sonne *l'heure
To *clap (*our hands)  *Taper *des mains
To *clap *(???) our teeth for cold  *Claquer *des dents
Birds *clap *(???) their wings  Les oiseaux *battent *des ailes


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## Penyafort

ThomasK said:


> At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
> - To *knock *on the door, on the window,
> - we *beat*??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
> - the clock *strikes *the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
> - to *clap *(our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...



*Catalan*:

- to knock on the door / the window = *trucar a la porta / la finestra*. (The same verb _trucar _is used for phoning: _Truca-li _'Phone him/her')
- to beat the carpets (to dust them) = *espolsar les catifes* (_espolsar _is, literally, to dust something: < es-_pols _'dust'-ar)
- (a clock/bell) to strike (the time) = *(un rellotge/campana) tocar (les hores)*: the clock struck two = el rellotge va tocar les dues (literally, to touch)
- to clap (our hands) = *aplaudir *_or _*picar de mans **
- to clap? (our teeth, because of the cold) = *serrar (les dents) *(if we mean, to close them tightly) or =* carrisquejar *_or_* fer clac / fer petar (les dents)* (if we mean, to make a noise)
- (birds) to clap (their wings) = *(els ocells) batre (les ales)* (_batre _is the closest to beat in English, as it is also used in Catalan for the heart beat, whisking eggs, defeating someone, achieving a record...)

For beating = hitting someone or something, *donar un cop* or *colpejar *are used.

* _*picar *_can also be used for 1 (*picar a la porta*) or, more rarely, 2 (*picar les catifes*), among many other uses unrelated to beating.


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## Armas

Finnish:
- To *knock *on the door - *koputtaa*_ ovelle_
- *Beat* the carpets - *tampata*, from old Swedish _damb_ "dust". I associate _tampata_ with beating with the carpet-beater, _mattopiiska_ "carpet-whip". (There is another, unrelated verb _tampata_ which means "to tamp, to pack down" snow). Another verb is *pu(d)istaa*/*pu(d)istella* which means to shake/beat? carpets and to shake head. Also _tomuttaa_ < _tomu_ "dust".
- The clock *strikes* - _kello _*lyö* "hits, strikes, beats"
- The heart *beats* - _sydän_* lyö*
- To *clap* hands - *taputtaa* _käsiä_
- To *flap* wings - *räpyttää* _siipiä_, the same verb means "to blink eyes"
- The teeth *beat* from cold - _hampaat *kalisevat*_
- To *knead* a dough - _*vaivata* taikinaa,_ this verb also means "to trouble"
- To *whisk* cream - _*vatkata*/*vispata* kermaa_
- A lightning *strikes* - _salama *iskee*_
- A mugger *beats* his victim - _ryöstäjä_ *pieksee *_uhrinsa_
- To *strike* with a sword -_ *sivaltaa* miekalla_


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## Armas

Awwal12 said:


> P.S.: We've also forgotten about slapping - Rus. "шлёпать" (shlyópat', imperf.), "шлёпнуть" (shlyópnut', perf. singular).


Finnish: _läpsäyttää, läpsyttää, läpsytellä, läpsiä, läimäyttää, läimiä, läiskäyttää, läiskiä, lätkäistä, lätkiä, lätkäyttää_


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## ThomasK

I see there are at least 4 variants, and if I had time, I'd check whether their use is parallel in different languages. Later perhaps...  Thanks a lot!


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## bearded

apmoy70 said:


> We usually do not beat the carpets to dust them


Don't you use carpet-beaters in Greece?  They are very useful tools - also for mattresses, sofas...
battipanni <---


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## ThomasK

This _battipanni_/_*mattenklopper *_(_tapijtenklopper_) reminded me of a _*vliegenmepper*_, literally a fly-beater (but I notice that it is a swatter, fly-flap, fly swatter  in English). _Meppen _is not that common in Dutch, I would say, but we can use the word when we hit hard (a slap, _een mep_). But I turned this into a new thread...


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## Awwal12

"Flyswatter" is "мухобойка" (mukhobóyka) in Russian (lit. ~"fly-beater", although it should be noted that "beating" and "killing" are very closely related in Russian, as well as in most Slavic languages). Formed from the same root, although under the old IE ablaut.

"Carpet-beater" is "выбивалка" (vybiválka, ~"outbeater"), or, more descriptively, "выбивалка для ковров" (...dlya kovróv, i.e. "for carpets").

P.S. Some people may call the both "хлопушка" (khlopúshka, ~"clapper"), as I remember, but it's also the word for a (fire)cracker, a pop gun (this colloquial usage is outdated, I believe) and a slapstick (should be rather historical already).


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## apmoy70

bearded said:


> Don't you use carpet-beaters in Greece?  They are very useful tools - also for mattresses, sofas...
> battipanni <---


Of course we do, but we do not use the verb _beat_ (usually) even when we do beat the carpets to dust them, we say either *«τινάζω»* or *«ξεσκονίζω»* [k͡se.skɔˈni.zɔ] --> lit. _to de-dust_ (MoGr prefix *«ξε-»* [k͡se-] + fem. *«σκόνη»* [ˈskɔ.ni]).

_Battipanni_ is (i) *«κόπανος»* [ˈkɔ.pa.nɔs] (masc.) --> _pounder, beater_ < Classical neut. *«κόπανον» kópanŏn* --> _butchering knife, axe_ (from Classical v. *«κόπτω» kóptō*), (ii) *«δάρτης»* [ˈðar.tis] (masc.) --> _hitter, batterer_ < MoGr *«δέρνω»* [ˈðer.nɔ] --> _to hit, smack, batter, beat_ (from Classical v. *«δέρω» dérō*), (iii) *«ξεσκονιστήρι»* [k͡se.skɔ.nisˈti.ɾi] (neut.) --> _de-duster_.
The latter is the most commonly used.


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## Yendred

In French, a _carpet-beater _can be called _batteur de tapis_ (a hand tool to beat the carpet with), or _tape-tapis_ (more colloquial, or used to refer to a fixed device used to beat the carpet on, generally reserved for smaller carpets, e.g. car floor mats).


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## Vukabular

In Serbian:
- To *knock *on the door, on the window - *Kucati*_ na vrata. *Čukati* na vrata._ 
- heart *beat *- _ot_*kuc*_aj srca
- _the heart is *beat*ing - _srce *kuc*a
- _hammering nails - _za*kuc*avati eksere; *kuc*ati eksere; *čuk*ati eksere_
- the clock *strikes *the time - _sat ot*kuc*ava_
Palindromes are common in Serbian language so: _*kuc* > *cuk* > *čuk*_ ("big hammer") > _*ček*ić_ ("small hammer" -_ić _suffix for diminutive). Words *"kucati"* i *"čukati"* are synonyms and word *"čuka"* means _hart_ or _clock_ depends on the context


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## ThomasK

This is interesting: the same root for all these verbs. No such examples until now, I think.


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## Vukabular

ThomasK said:


> This is interesting: the same root for all these verbs. No such examples until now, I think.


That is common in Serbian. For example from the onomatopoeic root *kov *(product made by forging) from which the following words are derived:
*kov*ač ("blacksmith")
*kov*ačnica ("forge")
na*kov*anj ("anvil")
*kov*anica ("coin")
*kov*nica ("coin factory") 
o*kov* ("shackles", "chains")
za*kov*ica ("rivet")
ras*kov*nik (plant "_Laserpitium siler"_, common name "laserwort") literally translated as "the one who takes off the shackles". According to Serbian folk belief, this plant has magical powers to open every lock, to remove every shackle, and to remove all spells.


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## Zareza

- A *bate*/ciocăni la ușă/fereastră= to *knock *on the door/window (*cioc *(onomatopoeia)=*knock*)
- A *bate *covoarele = to *beat* the carpets to dust them
- A-i *bate *inima / A *bate *din aripi = the heart *beats */ to *beat *its wings
- A *bate *ouăle/frișca = to *beat *the eggs up / to *whip *the cream
- A *bate *toba = to *beat *the drum (Also figurative A *bate *toba = to tell everyone somebody's secret)
- A *bate *ora (fixă) = the clock *strikes *the time
- A *bate *din palme = to *clap *(our hands)
- A *bate *la șah = to *beat *at chess

*bătător *= a carpet-beater, a mat knocker // *bătător *= outdoor carpet hanger / carpet stand / carpet rack

In Germany an outdoor *carpet hanger* for beating is called a *Teppichstange* (carpet bar) or *Klopfstange*.
In Poland it is called *trzepak *(a noun from the word *trzepać*, "to beat"; the beater itself is called *trzepaczka*).
In Romania the outdoor carpet hanger was an important meeting place for children who may use it as a playground. The girls were little Nadia Comaneci, the gymnast.


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## Vukabular

apmoy70 said:


> _Battipanni_ is (i) *«κόπανος»* [ˈkɔ.pa.nɔs] (masc.) --> _pounder, beater_ < Classical neut. *«κόπανον» kópanŏn* --> _butchering knife, axe_ (from Classical v. *«κόπτω» kóptō*), (ii) *«δάρτης»* [ˈðar.tis] (masc.) --> _hitter, batterer_ < MoGr *«δέρνω»* [ˈðer.nɔ] --> _to hit, smack, batter, beat_ (from Classical v. *«δέρω» dérō*), (iii) *«ξεσκονιστήρι»* [k͡se.skɔ.nisˈti.ɾi] (neut.) --> _de-duster_.
> The latter is the most commonly used.


Interesting!!!
Proto-Indo-European:
_*(s)*kop-*_ (“to strike, to beat”) perhaps ("to dig" - hitting, beating ground)
Serbian:
*kop* "mine" _An excavation from which ore or solid mineralsare taken, especially one consisting of underground tunnels. _
*kop*ati "to dig"
*kop*ito "hoof"
*kop*ačke "football shoes"
po*kop*ati "bury it"
*Kop*aonik _a mountain in Serbia with ancient mines_
English:
*gop*her _noun_ - _a tortoise of dry sandy regions that excavates tunnels _
*gop*her _verb_ - _excavate at random_
*cop*per - _a red-brown metal_

Proto-Indo-European _**der-*_ (“to split, to separate, to tear ”)
Serbian:
*der*ač "skinner"
po*der*otina "tear", "rip"
o*dra*ti "to remove skin"

Ancient Greek:
_*δέρ*μα_ (*dér*ma, “skin, hide”)
*δέρω* • (dérō, "I skin, flay")

English:
*der*e (Britain dialectal "Hurt; harm; injury.")

Serbian:
u*dar* ("stroke, hit, attack, strike, impact")


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## Vukabular

ThomasK said:


> - we *beat*??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,


*bat* _m._ "club, cudgel, mallet"
*bat*ina _f. _"club, cudgel, mallet"
*bat*ine "beating"
*bat*ak "a chicken leg"
*but* "ham" - *but*t
*but*ina "thigh" - *but*t

eng. *bat*tle???


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## Armas

Vukabular said:


> Proto-Indo-European:
> _*(s)*kop-*_ (“to strike, to beat”) perhaps ("to dig" - hitting, beating ground)
> Serbian:
> *kop* "mine" _An excavation from which ore or solid mineralsare taken, especially one consisting of underground tunnels. _
> *kop*ati "to dig"
> *kop*ito "hoof"
> *kop*ačke "football shoes"
> po*kop*ati "bury it"


Finnish has _kuoppa_ "pit (hole in the ground)" from Proto-Finnic *_kooppa_. Verbs: _kuopia_ "to dig (with one's hoof, paw, foot)", _kuopata_ "to bury". It's probably just a coincidence.


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## Vukabular

Armas said:


> Finnish has _kuoppa_ "pit (hole in the ground)" from Proto-Finnic *_kooppa_. Verbs: _kuopia_ "to dig (with one's hoof, paw, foot)", _kuopata_ "to bury". It's probably just a coincidence.


I don't believe in coincidence, here are more words related to hit, digging and hole: Czech *kop* ("kick"), Danish *kop* ("*cup*"), Dutch _Hou je *kop*! ("_Shut your hole!"), Polish *kop* ("hit or strike with the leg or foot"), Slovene *kọ̑p *("hoe" -digging tool), English s*coop* ("the digging attachment on a front-end loader")


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