# beau v. joli v. mignon



## Musical Chairs

In English, "beautiful," "pretty," and "cute" have different meanings. In French, are those words more for men than for women? Does "beau" have a stronger meaning than "joli?" Are there any slang words for "good-looking" such as "hot" or "smoking?"

* I think it would be a greater compliment to a woman if she were called "beautiful" than if she were called "pretty."


----------



## themaster

Each word means more or less the same thing (at least to me) & these are not "slang"...but correct french

cute=mignon(e)>> applies for a person generally
beautiful= beau/belle >> applies for persons/things
pretty/nice = joli(e) >> applies for persons/things

hot=chaud(e) (sexual meaning) ....just like "caliente" is in spanish
smoking=fumante? don't know about this expression

just my 2 cents


----------



## Musical Chairs

Interesting. So...how do you say he's hot (as in he's really good-looking, not he's sweating and needs a cold drink)? Would it be "il est chaud" or "il a chaud?" Is this different from how you'd say "he's hot" as in hot day/sweating?

Is it a better compliment to be called "beau/belle" or "joli/jolie?"


----------



## Jean-Michel Carrère

I would like to point out that "joli" is not used for a man.


----------



## Musical Chairs

In the US, "pretty" is used mostly for women but sometimes I just look at a man and think he's "pretty." This is when he has something that makes him handsome (bone structure, lips, etc) but he's lacking something that would make him sexy. I guess I'd think he's a little feminine, but I don't see that as a bad thing by itself at all. I wish WordReference had a thesaurus.

I will make sure I won't offend any man by calling him "joli!"  Would it be the highest compliment to a man to call him beau? (I feel like it would be something else...)


----------



## Jean-Michel Carrère

hum, there are so many ways you can call a handsome man !!! 

*Il est à croquer* is one. 
*Je le mettrais bien dans mon lit* is another one, but this one should be used sparingly.


----------



## Musical Chairs

Um...I'm not super good at French yet but does that translate into "I would put him well in my bed?" And why sparingly?


----------



## Old Novice

Musical Chairs said:


> Interesting. So...how do you say he's hot (as in he's really good-looking, not he's sweating and needs a cold drink)? Would it be "il est chaud" or "il a chaud?" Is this different from how you'd say "he's hot" as in hot day/sweating?
> 
> Is it a better compliment to be called "beau/belle" or "joli/jolie?"


 
Apparently, "d'enfer" -- "from hell", in English -- is slang for being "hot" in this sense. Here's a thread on this and other apparently opposite meanings in English and French.


----------



## Waninou

to me "chaud" doesn't mean beautiful, it comes from " un quartier chaud" = a red light district.

so when you say that somebody is "chaud" = randy

Not very the same to me


----------



## DearPrudence

themaster said:


> hot=chaud(e) (sexual meaning) ....just like "caliente" is in spanish
> smoking=fumante? don't know about this expression
> 
> just my 2 cents


I can't agree with that.
For me *"il est chaud (comme la braise)" *= *he's horny* 
*"il a chaud" = he's hot *(because it's hot, ...)

And I think "*smoking*" means "*very hot*"

Maybe for 
*"he's hot"* you could say
*"Il est (super) sexy"*



Musical Chairs said:


> Is it a better compliment to be called "beau/belle" or "joli/jolie?"


Definitely *"beau/belle"*


----------



## Jumot

Musical Chairs said:


> Um...I'm not super good at French yet but does that translate into "I would put him well in my bed?" And why sparingly?



It means I wouldn't mind sleeping with him. Saying that about a total stranger or someone you barely know, is just a little too bold for a nice girl. 

You would only say a thing like that to your best friends.

Julie


----------



## Jumot

Jean-Michel Carrère said:


> I would like to point out that "joli" is not used for a man.



I'm not sure I totally agree. Unless you use "man" as in an older mature male. Because I have seen "un joli garçon" for a young, most likely delicate, male; or used as a term of endearment, maybe.

Julie


----------



## Musical Chairs

*Je la mettrais bien dans mon lit* would that work too? (So it's not something only girls say. For example, I've never heard a man say that he "fancies" a woman.)


----------



## Musical Chairs

DearPrudence said:


> I can't agree with that.
> *"il est chaud (comme la braise)" *= *he's horny*



I once tried to say someone was excited (happy to see someone) and said "il est excité" but apparently it meant that he's sexually excited. Oops.


----------



## Michael-78

"She is hot" pourrait correspondre à "elle est bonne" (slang!!) ?


----------



## DearPrudence

Just a correction then:
   "*elle est bonne*"
From my very, hum, female and prudish point of view, it is really vulgar and degrading ...


----------



## tilt

Any word about heat, excitation, wetness, etc. can be understood as having sexual meanings!

Other adjectives can be used to say beautiful:
- _bonne _(vulgar and sexual slang, about girls only),
- _bien fichu(e)/foutu(e)/roulé(e)_ (about both sexes)
- _canon _(about both sexe)


----------



## Michael-78

It is vulgar to say "she's hot" ?


----------



## Paf le chien

Musical Chairs said:


> *Je la mettrais bien dans mon lit* would that work too?



Yes it would.

"Celle-là, si je l'avais dans mon lit, je n'irais pas coucher dans la baignoire"  is also, hum, common for men talking about cute/beautiful women...


----------



## DearPrudence

Michael-78 said:


> It is vulgar to say "she's hot" ?


I wouldn't say so.
It is informal (see Cambridge dictionary for instance)
but not vulgar.

Par exemple dans beaucoup d'épisodes de Friends ils disent "s/he's hot" (oui, "*canon*" marche bien)
En français, on ne pourrait pas avoir "*elle est bonne*"  (quelle horreur)
Tu imagines Monica dire à Ross : "Ross, tu devrais aller lui parler. Elle a l'air bonne !" (oui, je sais, ça devrait être "bon", pas "bonne" ...)


----------



## tilt

DearPrudence said:


> (oui, je sais, ça devrait être "bon", pas "bonne" ...)


Non, contrairement à une croyance tenace, il est totalement admis d'accorder l'adjectif au sujet, si on veut qualifier celui-ci plutôt que l'air. On peut voir alors l'expression comme une contraction de "_avoir l'air d'être..._".


----------



## DearPrudence

Ah, merci.
Je continuais à dire à des filles :
"T'as l'air maligne" même si je savais que c'était faux.
Maintenant je continuerai en sachant que je n'ai même pas tort


----------



## Paf le chien

tilt said:


> Non, contrairement à une croyance tenace, il est totalement admis d'accorder l'adjectif au sujet, si on veut qualifier celui-ci plutôt que l'air.



Faudrait peut-être faire prendre _l'air _à nos 'cadémiciens


----------



## Musical Chairs

For the record, I'd like to say that this is the most interesting thread I've made so far. It's made me think of scenarios in which I may seriously embarass myself. Is "elle est bonne" offensive (?) regardless of the context? Because if someone were playing the piano and you said "she's good," I wouldn't think it's offensive at all. If you were already talking about sleeping with people, then "she is good" (in bed) would be understood (which I think is a compliment for a woman). It doesn't sound like a woman would consider it a compliment in French (at least not DearPrudence) if someone called her "bonne."

"She's hot" is not offensive at all. Even offensive words can be not so offensive anymore if you put them in a different context (like talking dirty, which I assume they/some do in France).

"Celle-là, si je l'avais dans mon lit, je n'irais pas coucher dans la baignoire": I don't get this one. I don't know see what baths have to do with anything...

- _bien fichu(e)/foutu(e)/roulé(e)_ (about both sexes)

I looked "roulé" up in the dictionary, and it says "rolled," which I don't really understand as "beautiful." None of the other translations made sense to me, either.


----------



## Cyrrus

Musical Chairs said:


> "Celle-là, si je l'avais dans mon lit, je n'irais pas coucher dans la baignoire": I don't get this one. I don't know see what baths have to do with anything...



You can  replace "baignoire" with whatever you want :
garden, cellar, attic, garage, etc


----------



## Musical Chairs

haha...French is so interesting!


----------



## Staarkali

about original topic:
for person:
mignon(ne) is more for boys/girls
beau/belle, joli(e) is more for men/women

therefore for object the difference is the same (in english cute is different from beautiful or pretty)

about "elle est bonne": lots of women found it disgusting mainly because of its orgin, the poorest and lowest educated people in the cites, and a woman hearing that for another woman might answer "have you tried her yet?". For people using that, it simply means the related woman is pretty (without stating about any possible sexual feedback).

I personally dont like it since its an aberration of the instinctive form, lets admit it, the same people also mistakes "prenant" for "prise de tete" where it exactly means the contrary (absorbant)...


----------



## themaster

oops delete this pls


----------



## Ze Bib

Musical Chairs said:


> - _bien fichu(e)/foutu(e)/roulé(e)_ (about both sexes)
> 
> I looked "roulé" up in the dictionary, and it says "rolled," which I don't really understand as "beautiful." None of the other translations made sense to me, either.


 
"bien roulé" or "bien fichue" refers to the body only: it's well shaped, well "made" literally...not really poetic but often used in french!


----------



## Musical Chairs

Staarkali said:


> about original topic:
> for person:
> mignon(ne) is more for boys/girls
> beau/belle, joli(e) is more for men/women
> 
> therefore for object the difference is the same (in english cute is different from beautiful or pretty)
> 
> about "elle est bonne": lots of women found it disgusting mainly because of its orgin, the poorest and lowest educated people in the cites, and a woman hearing that for another woman might answer "have you tried her yet?". For people using that, it simply means the related woman is pretty (without stating about any possible sexual feedback).
> 
> I personally dont like it since its an aberration of the instinctive form, lets admit it, the same people also mistakes "prenant" for "prise de tete" where it exactly means the contrary (absorbant)...



Would "elle est bonne" be acceptable in other contexts, such as when one is commenting on a woman playing the piano? Or is it always bad? Is "il est bon" ever said?

Why do "prenant" and "prise de tete" get confused?


----------



## DearPrudence

Musical Chairs said:


> Would "elle est bonne" be acceptable in other contexts, such as when one is commenting on a woman playing the piano? Or is it always bad? Is "il est bon" ever said?


I must say that sometimes I feel the need to expand a bit and say for instance:
"*Oh, oui, elle est bonne ... en maths*"
(but I've jsut realized that using "bonne" with nothing after is not really natural. I would rather say things like:
*"Elle joue bien (au tennis/du piano)"
"Elle est douée"
"Elle n'est pas mauvaise"*)

But as Staarkali says


Staarkali said:


> about "elle est bonne": lots of women found it disgusting mainly because of its orgin, the poorest and lowest educated people in the cites,


it depends on the tone. If you say "elle est bonne" + explicit gesture, then it is disgusting indeed but if you have been talking about her playing the piano and so on and it's obvious you're talking abouther ability to play, I think there is no problem ...


----------



## pitchou

i banned the word "bonne" (to refer to a pretty woman) from my vocabulary quite a long time ago, as most got upset about it and i realised how rude it sounded. i only use it now with my very close friends and when they know i'm joking but complimenting them at the same time. 
the words "jolie", et "belle" come out naturally now, with the possible "super" preceding them: "elle est vraiment super jolie/belle"
 To acknowledge the skills of a woman playing the piano for instance, one would preferably use "elle est douée" but "bonne" would be fine if you're not in the presence of teenagers.
For "she's smokin'", i'd use "elle est chaude comme la braise" or, to quote a fellow actor: "elle est chaude comme une baraque à frites" or yet "elle a les yeux qui crient braguette"


----------



## Paf le chien

pitchou said:


> elle est chaude comme une baraque à frites" or "elle a les yeux qui crient braguette"



I didn't know those two ones. The former sounds more from Belgium (frites), doesn't it? The second one is perfectly understandable (explicit, I mean, not to say crude) even for someone who doesn't know it.

But I even didn't know the "elle est bonne" one. So...

PAF
(Probably coming from Saturn or Jupiter where he learnt French  )


----------



## Calamitintin

Paf le chien said:


> But I even didn't know the "elle est bonne" one. So...
> (Probably coming from Saturn or Jupiter where he learnt French  )


Hehe, yes, probably. "Bonne" is widely spread in France 
++
Cal


----------



## pitchou

yeah i guess the "baraque à frites" comparison sounds Belgian, but maybe it's just an easy stereotype  Actually, except in Poelvoorde's mouth, i don't think i heard it anywhere else


----------



## DearPrudence

Calamitintin said:


> Hehe, yes, probably. "Bonne" is widely spread in France
> ++
> Cal


But it is used by young people. Men who are a bit older are more tasteful


----------



## Musical Chairs

Is it strange for a man to call another man "beau" in France? It would be in the US but women calling each other beautiful/pretty wouldn't raise any eyebrows (though "hot" may).


----------



## Waninou

Musical Chairs said:


> Is it strange for a man to call another man "beau" in France? It would be in the US but women calling each other beautiful/pretty wouldn't raise any eyebrows (though "hot" may).


 
As far as I'm concerned, I could say:

"Il est beau garçon" ou "C'est un bel homme" talking about a man who doesn't face me but if I'm talking with a man I'd rather say "tu n'as pas à te plaindre" or "T'as plutôt été gaté par la nature" than tell him "T'es beau" what would make me feel ill at ease.


----------



## Staarkali

Musical Chairs said:


> Why do "prenant" and "prise de tete" get confused?


 
I dont know why, but I already heard a lot of "prenant" to express something is boring ("prise de tete") where I first took it for absorbing. I guess some people mistook it at first and other people without more education still used it;

who knows, maybe "prenant" will move from one meaning to its exact contrary with the time..


----------



## Topsie

Il/elle est canon (really good-looking)
Il/elle est mignon(ne) (cute)
c'est une bolide (for pretty girls and racing cars!)
c'est un joli garçon (very young or slightly effeminate men)
Il est beau gosse (an attractive young man)
Il est bel homme (a handsome (older) man)
elle est bonne (she's fit/a hottie)


----------



## Sbonke

My contribution to this interesting thread:

To me, "elle est bonne" means one thing and one thing only: elle est bonne à baiser. You may appreciate how rude that is.


----------



## clairet

and now to something completely different...things rather than people.

I think that when I've described a village or the countryside as "beau/belle", the French people I've been talking with have changed this to "joli/jolie" (or it may be the other way round, I'm somewhat confused about this).  Are there any rules for things which should be described as "joli" rather than "beau", or vice versa?


----------



## Staarkali

clairet said:


> and now to something completely different...things rather than people.
> 
> I think that when I've described a village or the countryside as "beau/belle", the French people I've been talking with have changed this to "joli/jolie" (or it may be the other way round, I'm somewhat confused about this). Are there any rules for things which should be described as "joli" rather than "beau", or vice versa?


No specific rules to my knowledge, my piece of advice: just follow the trend and listen to what other speakers say to build up your own idea, because *joli* and *beau* have the same meaning, except *beau* may be used for "noble" contexts just like artworks, nature magnificence, etc.
In that way, *beau* may slightly emphasize on the greatness of the object, or the humility of the subject.


----------



## tilt

Staarkali said:


> [...] *joli* and *beau* have the same meaning, except *beau* may be used for "noble" contexts just like artworks, nature magnificence, etc.
> In that way, *beau* may slightly emphasize on the greatness of the object, or the humility of the subject.


Je dirais plutôt que ce qui est _beau _respecte des canons esthétiques établis, alors que ce qui est joli relève d'un jugement personnel et à plus à voir avec le charme qu'avec la beauté.
Bien des endroits, bien des gens, sont jolis sans être beaux, et inversement.


----------



## clairet

merci, staarkali et tilt - vos réponses me donnent une idée des sens de ces mots


----------

