# Conversate



## nycphotography

Ok, let's fuel the ebonics fire here:

Is Conversate NOT a word?

Or is Conversate a word in the "ebonics dialect"?


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## mjscott

Conversate? Never heard of it! Converse, yes, but conversate?


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## SweetMommaSue

This is something that I heard by some folks in the Navy, and then when I was in Virginia, and now around Maryland, too!  

Conversate. Absolutely the funniest sounding "verb" I've heard! The first few times I heard it, I thought the people were making a joke and laughed. Then I noticed they were serious (ooops). When they asked me what was so funny, I told them that I was taught from early childhood that the correct verb to pair with conversation was "to converse". My husband also agrees. We're both from Philadelphia originally, albeit different parts. He, too, has only heard it in slang. 

Is it ebonics? I do not know what is specifically ebonics or just slang. I would venture to say it is just slang, because it is not in my dictionary (American Heritage).

Anyone else ever heard of conversate?


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## jwesley

Nope. We did not conversate where I grew up in Texas. We talked, we yakked, we jawed, we shot the shlt, but we rarely conversed, and never conversated.


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## pieanne

Here's what I found about "conversate"; looks like it's a "meme"
conversate: Talk, converse. Radio talk
show hosts and pro athletes seem to love
this pseudo word, which is spreading like
wildfire. Everyone wants to "conversate."
BuzzWhack prefers the Joan Rivers'
approach: "Can we talk?"


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## Isotta

Ha! Ha! I love it!

It must demonstrate the preference for longer words when a short word will do just fine, such as "obligate" for "oblige." Though now "obligate" is a word even with a slightly different meaning, while "conversate" is not. I'd be tickled if it ever did spring from the popular mouth, especially if it came to be synonymous with Joan Rivers.

Ah, me.

Z.


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## pieanne

Hehehe...
a "meme" is an idea, behavior, style, or usage that spreads from person to person within a culture (curtesy of Word of the Day)


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## Isotta

Yes, mimesis--we humans are such fabulous parrots. 

I shall have to begin using this word.

Many thanks for the headsup, foto--

Z.


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## pieanne

Yes, I find that "meme" has a nice ring to it!


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## MrPedantic

nycphotography said:
			
		

> Is Conversate NOT a word?


 
It sounds like a "word", it looks like a "word", it functions as a "word"...

To put it another way:

Let's say you write $10 on a hundred pieces of paper. You go into a shop, and convince the shopkeeper that he should take your piece of paper in exchange for $10-worth of goods. Later, he gives your "$10 note" to someone else in their change, using your persuasive arguments. That person uses it to pay for a drink in the bar...

Are your "$10 notes" money?

MrP


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## timpeac

It sounds like somethin GWB might do about spreading democratism.


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## pieanne

I know, I know, MrPedantic!  "Canada Dry"!


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## *Cowgirl*

jwesley said:
			
		

> Nope. We did not conversate where I grew up in Texas. We talked, we yakked, we jawed, we shot the shlt, but we rarely conversed, and never conversated.


 
I live in the deep south, and I have never heard anyone use the word "conversate"


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## pieanne

Maybe you will soon?


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## MrPedantic

I live in the deep south too, and I've never heard "shoot the shit".

(Waste of a good bullet, if you ask me. It ain't going nowhere.)

MrP


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## GenJen54

> I live in the deep south too, and I've never heard "shoot the shit".


I believe "shoot the sh*t" is an expression used more in the rural South, among old cowboys and farmers, in those locales were sh*t was aplenty (like in the cow pastures and grazing lands.) 

Before this thread becomes wasted like the aforementioned bullet, I feel *obligated* to get it back on track.

I've not heard conversate at all. If it is a part of "Ebonics" as NYC Photography attests, then it is, for at least a part of the population, a word. Obviously, in standard AE, it does not exist. I don't believe it makes it any more or less correct, unless one were to use it as a substitute for "converse" in standard AE, in which case, it would be wrong.


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## SweetMommaSue

jwesley said:
			
		

> Nope. We did not conversate where I grew up in Texas. We talked, we yakked, we jawed, we shot the sh***t, but we rarely conversed, and never conversated.


*Ha!  Thanks for the chuckle!  
We've sat around and "chewed the fat" and "flapped our gums", as well. Told people to "shut their traps" (but never to open them). jwesley, you mentioned "jawed";  we "jaw-jacked" up here in the North (of the States, that is).  I'll have to ask around and see what other similar expressions I can dig up!  Sounds like a great idea for another thread! 

Good thread, by the way! *



			
				MrP said:
			
		

> I live in the deep south too, and I've never heard "shoot the sh***t".
> 
> (Waste of a good bullet, if you ask me. It ain't going nowhere.)
> 
> MrP


*Ha, ha, ha! But I thought you were on the other side of the ocean! Y'all don't "conversate" over there???? (There's a "deep south" there? )

 What about in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the Caribbean or Canada??? Has this term been heard over there or anywhere else?
 
*


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## MrPedantic

SweetMommaSue said:
			
		

> *But I thought you were on the other side of the ocean! Y'all don't "conversate" over there???? (There's a "deep south" there? )*


 
I think Brighton would probably qualify as "deep south". Or maybe Bournemouth. Not very impressive by your standards, I know. But it's the best we can do.

As for conversating...Well, to be honest, we rarely even converse. As I understand it, that would involve lowering one's newspaper. <cold chills> So no, I can't really see it taking off over here...

MrP


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## JazzByChas

SweetMommaSue said:
			
		

> * [..we] "jaw-jacked" up here in the North (of the States, that is). ***


 
Actually, my daddy was from the deep South (in Georgia), and he mentioned "jaw-jacking' a lot.  

As for conversating, it is, IMHO, a word that in incorrectly used.  I suppose it will gain popular usage, unfortunately, but "converse" would be the proper term.

I myself just convey information....


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## JazzByChas

MrPedantic said:
			
		

> I live in the deep south too, and I've never heard "shoot the shit".


 
Well, I am an old (American) Military brat, who has been all over (including England) and I suppose I have heard of a lot of expressions, including _shooting the shit_. I guess I don't know enough about any particular region to know if an expression originates there.

I think the best way I have heard it put is _running your mouth_ (especially without your brain engaged  )

Oh, and as to whether or not this is ebonics...I would have to say, not necessarily...but that does not rule out the possibility.  Sounds just like any other misuse of Standard English.

Chas.


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## foxfirebrand

This word is a back-formation, I guess it goes without saying.  So does that make it "legitimate?"

I'd say yes if it's used facetiously, or in any group whose slang includes the word-- or in reported speech about anyone in such a group.  Beyond that, it's a matter of whether it catches on.

It does sound like BAE.  Such a coinage would be more possible for someone brought up on gospel music, anyway, than anyone not-- how many of you white folks out there have made mention of John the Revelator lately?
.


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## fenixpollo

I have heard this word, though never from African-Americans. I think it would be inaccurate to say that it's "ebonics." Instead, let's call it a Spoonerism *malapropism* -- a word used incorrectly by someone who's trying to sound learned or important. (link)

_edit: I knew I could find it!  _


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## JazzByChas

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> It does sound like BAE. Such a coinage would be more possible for someone brought up on gospel music, anyway, than anyone not-- how many of you white folks out there have made mention of John the Revelator lately?


 
I must admit, I have definitely heard _that_ term in Black churches!  And I agree with Fenix, that it is a mis-use of a word to try to sound educated or important... but that is just ignorance.  A _spoonerism_, according to Webster's Online Dictionary, is "a transposition of usually initial sounds of two or more words, especially a ludicrous one, such as _Let me sew you to your sheet_ for _Let me show you to your seat", or, _ " _tons of soil _for _sons of toil"_


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## lingo95

Hi there,

I have heard 'conversate' (in both tenses, all aspects) with some regularity here in Kansas City, almost always from an African-American. When I've heard it used, it's usually more in the context of a more in-depth discussion than "shoot the sh*t' or "yakking" would imply (e.g., when there is a decision to be made).  I would agree it is clearly backformed from the word 'conversation' as many of you have written.  

Yes, as an amateur grammarian it kind of bugs me, but I would have to disagree with those who would say it's "not a word".  Any utterance that is used and mutually understood between speaker/listener is a word to me.   Appearance in a dictionary just means that it has entered the lexicon to the point where even "officials" agree on it, sometimes years after it has been incorprated into the everyday parlance of the general populace.  

Just my two cents


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## irisheyes0583

I've heard the word used by many, _many_ different types of people, although I do not personally use it.

Back home in Philly, we "shot the sh*t", "chatted", "conversed", and "talked". We could-- although we didn't often-- "chew the fat", "yak", or "make chit-chat". We certainly did not "conversate".

Here in Virginia, my new state, we "discuss", "talk", "chat", and "conversate". No longer to I "shoot the sh*t" or "chew the fat", and when I try to "make chit-chat" or "yak", I am treated like I speak another language (Yankee-ese, if you please!). 

p.s. You can also "shoot the breeze".


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## JazzByChas

irisheyes0583 said:
			
		

> Here in Virginia, my new state, we "discuss", "talk", "chat", and "conversate". No longer to I "shoot the sh*t" or "chew the fat", and when I try to "make chit-chat" or "yak", I am treated like I speak another language (Yankee-ese, if you please!).
> 
> p.s. You can also "shoot the breeze".


 
I will say that, my mother is from the New England area, and she went to college ( and met my father) in Atlanta. When she first arrived, they wondered is she were a "ferriner". So, I know what you mean about "Yankee-ese"!
<chuckle>


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## mjscott

Well, way out west, we don't conversate. We don't waste bullets shooting the sh*t--though we sometimes will spend a bullet shooting the breeze. Most times we sniff the breeze, locate the sh*t, follow the trail to Nature's Craftstman, and get right down to shooting the BULL!


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## nycphotography

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> *malapropism* -- a word used incorrectly by someone who's trying to sound learned or important.


 
That's exactly what it is.  I asked it it was ebonics because, in all honesty I only hear it among black speakers.

I myself, would vote this word to the "misusage, not a word" category.  But the discussion about whether THIS misusage is ebonics, and whether some other one is, would, I suspect, illustrate the degree to which ebonics is (or at least has become) a political tool, more so than a linguistic one.

Thanks everyone, for the discussion.


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## nycphotography

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> This word is a back-formation (from conversation)...


 
OMG!  Thats exactly what I find myself doing in portuguese all the time.  I'm sure the garbage I concoct must be quite entertaining to the natives ;-)


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## nycphotography

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> *malapropism* -- a word used incorrectly by someone who's trying to sound learned or important.


 
Or, as I always say:  *BWDF*.  Big word. (too bad it) Don't fit.


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## Isotta

No, I think a malapropism suggests the confusion of one word for another--but not the invention of one word (in this case, a lengthening). I think ffb's "back-formation" is nice.

Z.


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## timpeac

Brioche said:
			
		

> I think you're a bit too generous in your notion of a "word": especially in pages designed to help learners of English.
> 
> When someone in this forum asks whether such an such is *a word*, it is an eliptical expression for a "*word in the standard language, or any truly major dialect of English*".
> 
> They want to know how the word will be received in their TOFEL exam.


 
These pages hopefully do help learners of English, and many of their users may be interested in words to be received in their TOFEL exam however these pages are not solely designed to help learners of English - or rather only in the wider sense of all users of English, since we are all constantly learning. They are for discussion of English of all types for people of all standards of proficiency.

The use of the use of the word "word" in these forums is not restricted to reference to the standard language or any truly major dialect. It is helpful and appropriate to make clear when we are discussing a word which is used by a minority of people, and this has been made abundantly clear in this thread I would say.


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## Isotta

Plus a native Anglophone originally proposed the question. 

Z.


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## Sabine Teaver

Here in NE Georgia I hear "visitate" (not in my dictionary) used by Baptists, conversate, explicate (in the dictionary, but why not use "explain?"), solicitate (not in my dictionary) and another word that I can't think of at the moment. I'm sure if they get used enough, their use will eventually become acceptable.

Another word I also hear quite often is "irregardless" which also makes me snicker a little.


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## timpeac

Sabine Teaver said:
			
		

> Here in NE Georgia I hear "visitate" (not in my dictionary) used by Baptists, conversate, explicate (in the dictionary, but why not use "explain?"), solicitate (not in my dictionary) and another word that I can't think of at the moment. I'm sure if they get used enough, their use will eventually become acceptable.
> 
> Another word I also hear quite often is "irregardless" which also makes me snicker a little.


 
Well I haven't heard "visitate" but there is "visitation" which is used to describe a supernatural visit of a spirit or something like that. Maybe "visitate" is the verb relating to that noun.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Sabine Traver*
> Another word I also hear quite often is "irregardless" which also makes me snicker a little.


 
It's possible that many of these "ate" derititives are part of good ole US Southern-ese. I hear them 'round my parts, as well. Perhaps they transitioned from "Southern-ese" into what is considered Ebonics today. Either way, I don't believe _conversate_ or any other artificially-formed "-ate" verbs are exclusive to AAE, or black vernacular.

As for irregardless, I, too, thought it an abomination until I dared look it up one day and found (gasp!  ) that it is actually considered to be an "irregular or nonstandard," albeit accepted form, of "regardless." Some dictionaries consider it a combination of the words "regardless" and "irrespective." Once I found it in the dictionary, I gave up my fight and now obligingly accept it.


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## Sabine Teaver

"Visitate" I always hear when my Baptist neighbors go and visit some church member who is sick.  They usually bring by food, help with the housework etc.  I have never heard in relation to spirits, but who knows.  Just thought it falls into the same category as conversate and solicitate.  One of our grad students just used solicitate, like "Could I solicitate your advice on this?"


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## Sabine Teaver

Oh, goodness, no, argghhh, GenJen, it's REALLY in the dictionary, "irregardless," I mean?  That's redundant redundant


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## GenJen54

Most of these -ate verbs seem to be shortened versions of -ion nouns.  It's possible that to an "uneducated" ear, these are natural verb forms of those nouns.  In a way, it makes very logical sense.

conversation - conversate - converse
solicitation - solicitate - solicit
obligation - obligate - oblige
visitation - visitate - visit
explication - explicate - explain

This would actually make a very interesting linguistic study.


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## timpeac

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> As for irregardless, I, too, thought it an abomination until I dared look it up one day and found (gasp!  ) that it is actually considered to be an "irregular or nonstandard," albeit accepted form, of "regardless." Some dictionaries consider it a combination of the words "regardless" and "irrespective." Once I found it in the dictionary, I gave up my fight and now obligingly accept it.


 
Why? Dictionaries are only written by people with opinions such as yourself. Being written in a dictionary is only an indication that it is in some way standard usage. I have never heard "irregardless" and on that basis - as a personal choice - I reject it as a standard form. Mind you - you say that your dictionary also considers it "irregular and nonstandard" so why would that influence you to accept it?


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## GenJen54

Accepting and approving are two different things. As you say, if it has made it into the dictionary it is because it is considered by some to be "standard" usage. That does not mean I have to: a) approve of its being the correct usage; and/or b) consider it to be correct. It just means that I accept its use by others and choose to no longer correct them when I hear it, *regardless* of what I think of it.


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## timpeac

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Accepting and approving are two different things. As you say, if it has made it into the dictionary it is because it is considered by some to be "standard" usage. That does not mean I have to: a) approve of its being the correct usage; and/or b) consider it to be correct. It just means that I accept its use by others and choose to no longer correct them when I hear it, *regardless* of what I think of it.


 
But you said the dictionary said it was "irregular and nonstandard" so how is this an indication that it is considered by some to be standard usage? That would just seem to support your original feelings.

My point is really that dictionaries are human-made and can be fallible. I have come across many mistakes over the years - or more often things presented as fact that I would strongly disagree with.

Edit - I don't remember having heard this word before, so I googled it. It was interesting to see that the majority of the first hits are discussions on whether or not it should be considered a "proper" word or not I checked the first hundred and it was still the main topic of conversation at theat point - maybe it just exists as a self-fulfilling prophecy in discussions about whether it should exist or not...

Edit edit - ok, I know I'm obsessive but i just checked the first 500 hits and they are _still_ only about whether it exitst or not!!


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## foxfirebrand

Sabine Teaver said:
			
		

> "Visitate" I always hear when my Baptist neighbors go and visit some church member who is sick. They usually bring by food, help with the housework etc. I have never heard in relation to spirits, but who knows.



"Visistate's" another good one-- I think of it as a ritual curative visit following a death in someone's family.  I think it's used with "with."

"It ain't hypocrisy to visitate with folk you don't git along with.   God hisself comes along sometimes, and for all you know He likes em fine."

These back-formations and outright coinages involving the _-ate_ suffix don't gravel me too much, even Bo Dietl with his "lunchitate" and scores of others.  It's the _-ize_ words I cringe at, especially the "cowbird words" that try to hip-bump basic words like "use" and "do" out of the nest.  When I hear "utilize" I want to lurch at the speaker and get my hands around his throat.  

Don't be alarmed, a figure of speech-- nothing I'd ever dream of actually factualizing.
.


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## panjandrum

Sequences of letters may be listed in dictionaries simply because they have been observed, not because they are recognised as having meaning and are accepted.
I am glad to say that the OED - which lists usage, not correctness - has no record of conversate.


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## panjandrum

Speaking up in defence of explicate.

This is not in the same category at all.  This is not explanate.

Explicate is a perfectly good, independent, self-sufficient word that has meaning all of its own.  In fact, it has six meanings all of its own.

Explicate = unfold, disentangle, develop, give account of, account for, make clear the meaning of....


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## clio44

timpeac said:


> It sounds like somethin GWB might do about spreading democratism.


democratism??  I love it!!


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## clio44

Oh, and just to let everyone know, I've heard every term you've mentioned thus far referring to "convers(at)ing"....... so that's the story in Canada.  Apparently, we're so bored up here we do all those and more 
And GenJen, I agree, those natural verb forms of the nouns *would* make for a very interesting linguistic study!


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