# Xerox / photocopy [noun + verb]



## meili

What is the difference?
Can we also refer to xerox as the end product, meaning the photocopy?


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## Merlin

meili said:
			
		

> What is the difference?
> Can we also refer to xerox as the end product, meaning the photocopy?


I guess here in the Philippines we can use Xeroxed. But I believe in other countries they prefer using photocopy. If I'm not mistaken Xerox is a brand of a photocopier. So I guess end product is photocopy.


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## JennR

In casual conversation, Xerox has become interchangeable with photocopy. However, it a registered trademark of the Xerox corporation. Any formal documentation should more properly use facsimile or photocopy.

Hope this helps,

jenn


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## Helicopta

As Merlin says, Xerox is a brand name that has become synonymous with photocopying. I would personally use photocopy/photocopied/photocopying but I would understand Xerox/Xeroxed/Xeroxing etc.

In a similar way, we use Hoover in the UK to mean vacuum cleaner/cleaning.
"Fetch the hoover", "Hoover your bedroom", "You'll have to speak up! My mum's hoovering!"


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## la grive solitaire

The correct terms for using a photocopier are "a photocopy/to photocopy"; Xerox is a kind of a photocopier. "Photocopy" is preferred to "Xerox" in publications because it's a brand name. However, in spoken AE, photocopy and Xerox are used interchangeably:

I Xeroxed/photocopied a page from the book.

Could you Xerox/photocopy that excerpt for me?

Are you finished with the Xerox machine/photocopier?


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## meili

I personally use photocopy/photocopied.
Thanks guys!


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## timebomb

We don't xerox nor photocopy.  We photostat.  Another Singaporean word?


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## meili

Hello timebomb!
Surprise you might be, heard the word just now   
from webster-online:


> Main Entry: Photostat
> Function: trademark
> -- used for a device for making a photographic copy of graphic matter



Thanks for sharing!


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## la grive solitaire

timebomb said:
			
		

> We [don't]neither xerox nor photocopy.  We photostat.  Another Singaporean word?


Interesting, timebomb. Photostat is a trademarked name, like Xerox, for an older kind of copying process.


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## timebomb

What's more interesting perhaps, is that I have never heard anyone say it in the past tense - photostated.  When referring to the final product, we usually call it a photostat copy, occasionally photocopy.


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## meili

timebomb said:
			
		

> What's more interesting perhaps, is that I have never heard anyone say it in the past tense - photostated. When referring to the final product, we usually call it a photostat copy, occasionally photocopy.


 
But you do not call the end copy photostat, no?


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## timebomb

meili said:
			
		

> But you do not call the end copy photostat, no?



Yes, sometimes, when we're in a hurry.  For instance, hurriedly, we would say, "Here's your photostat, Meili".  If we have time, it would be "Here's your photostat copy, Meili".


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## $orceress

personally, at home, school or work, i often hear xerox because it has been the name that most filipinos got used to. it's just like when i was working before at a convenience store, when someone asks if we have "colgate" available and then we present him the product, he would then say "no, i want a close-up, please". what the customer was actually refereing to was a toothpaste. it's what's stored in the mind coz it's what's been used throughout time..and mind you, this is just a few of many. see what i mean? actually, merlin is right, "xerox" is a photocopier and not a synonym of photocopy.


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## meili

timebomb said:
			
		

> Yes, sometimes, when we're in a hurry. For instance, hurriedly, we would say, "Here's your photostat, Meili". If we have time, it would be "Here's your photostat copy, Meili".


Oh, ok.. Just like in the Philippines: "Here's your xerox" or "Here's your xerox copy". 
Its just that when I had worked in a University before as an HR Officer, our HR Director scolded one of our student assistants for using 'xerox', she said to use 'photocopy' instead.
Oh well. Thanks!


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## timebomb

$orceress said:
			
		

> when someone asks if we have "colgate" available and then we present him the product, he would then say "no, i want a close-up, please". what the customer was actually refereing to was a toothpaste.



Many Singaporeans call toothpaste "colgate" too in the old days.  But now there are many more brands so it doesn't happen that often anymore.  There are certain brands though that have such a monopoly, the brand names take over the correct words.  For instance, Kiwi is a well-known brand of boot polish here.  In fact, it's so well-known I can't think of another.  When I was in the army, the sergeant would say, "Recruits, you better kiwi your boots tonight.  We're going to have a master parade tomorrow morning, okay?"


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## meili

$orceress said:
			
		

> personally, at home, school or work, i often hear xerox because it has been the name that most filipinos got used to. it's just like when i was working before at a convenience store, when someone asks if we have "colgate" available and then we present him the product, he would then say "no, i want a close-up, please". what the customer was actually refereing to was a toothpaste. it's what's stored in the mind coz it's what's been used throughout time..and mind you, this is just a few of many. see what i mean? actually, merlin is right, "xerox" is a photocopier and not a synonym of photocopy.


 
And since you said that that is what is stored in the consumer's mind, then thus the question: is xerox the end product the same as photocopy?
 And I already got the answer I wanted.
Thanks for sharing Gail!


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## $orceress

no problem mae!
i'm glad to be of service!


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## daviesri

Most of the time in our office we just use the word 'copy'.  

Could you please make me a copy.
Make a copy on the copy machine.

I guess with todays technology the only way most copies are made is using a photocopier unless you print multiple copies from your printer.


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## JennR

Actually, we can send a document right to our networked copymachine. It's much more efficient than sending it to a printer.

We pretty much say copier and copy in the office. Our copiers are Canons instead of Xerox™.

Wow...photostat, now there's a term I haven't heard in a looooooooooooong time. 

J


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## panjandrum

JennR said:
			
		

> Wow...photostat, now there's a term I haven't heard in a looooooooooooong time.


Me too. That is the delight of Singaporean English, it seems. 
But for sure I have used photostat exactly as timebomb describes, and have used it as a noun - this is only a photostat.

Kiwi, know it well - I have some in the bootbox, use it regularly.  I haven't come across it as a generic - like hoover.  
Cherry Blossom has too big a market share here for that to have happened


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## foxfirebrand

How about _mimeograph?_  In workshop classes where students' own writing was part of the text for the course, we ingratiated ourselves to Departmental secretarial staff by typing our own mimeo stencils.

They were made of a blue waxy stuff, and you removed your typewriter ribbon so that the keys cut orthographic shapes into the material.  There was a film of gauzework on the back of the sheet, permeable to ink.  The stencil was strapped to a drum which you turned by hand-- the ink sloshed around inside, and it seeped through the letter-shaped holes your keys had cut in the blue wax.  As the stroke of the drum bottomed out, it squeezed past a spring-loaded platform where the paper was stacked, pressure adjusted so that one sheet peeled off at a time.  All strictly mechanical, I'm not sure electricity was involved though I'm sure there must've been newer versions with electric motors rather than cranks.

You had to develop a touch, a rhythm, and keep your eyes open for pages that didn't peel off the stack, or that dragged a sheet or two halfway along.  Not everyone had typewriters, and most who did had manuals, so that the font was regular or boldface depending on how hard you struck the keys.

I hate all this modern crap that comes out "perfect," and you have no control over the variables.  What if I _want_ to emphasize one or two words so much that I hit the keys hard enough to rip through the gauze backing, and they "bleed" all down the page?  Good for fiction that ran to the _grand-guignol._ 

Mimeo machines.  The "inkhorn" was never quite extinct as long as you could crank that drum and hear the ink sloshing around, and the pages peeling slickly out one end, where an assistant had to remove them and set them in rows to dry.  Poets were more like painters then, at least in the matter of walking around with hands all spotted with pigment.


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## daviesri

Mimeographs take me back to my childhood.  Nothing beat the smell of a freshly mimeographed test paper.  Everyone would be inhaling them the minute the teacher passed them out.  Of course, that would explain my occasional problems with short term memory loss.

Mimeographs take me back to my childhood.  Nothing beat the smell of a freshly mimeographed test paper.  Everyone would be inhaling them the minute the teacher passed them out.  Of course, that would explain my occasional problems with short term memory loss.


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## cuchuflete

Second the motion, Daviesri.  I'm surprised it took 18 posts to get this out.  
For me, 'copy' and 'Xerox' are the most common terms.  I have hardly ever heard the more formal, descriptive 'photocopy'.  

For the machine, I say 'copier'.  





			
				daviesri said:
			
		

> Most of the time in our office we just use the word 'copy'.
> 
> Could you please make me a copy.
> Make a copy on the copy machine.
> 
> I guess with today*'*s technology the only way most copies are made is using a photocopier unless you print multiple copies from your printer.


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## Merlin

meili said:
			
		

> Oh, ok.. Just like in the Philippines: "Here's your xerox" or "Here's your xerox copy".
> Its just that when I had worked in a University before as an HR Officer, our HR Director scolded one of our student assistants for using 'xerox', she said to use 'photocopy' instead.
> Oh well. Thanks!


You got that right meili  Here in the Philippines, we usually intechange the brand name with the product. Here are some examples.

Toothpaste: Colgate
Coffee:        Nescafe'
Mouthwash:  Listerine
Shampoo:     Crimsillk
Softdrink:     Coke/Pepsi

Those are the things I can remember right now.


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## panjandrum

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> For me, 'copy' and 'Xerox' are the most common terms. I have hardly ever heard the more formal, descriptive 'photocopy'. For the machine, I say 'copier'.


Well maybe it's because we are a more formal, descriptive people - but photocopy is the bog-standard word in routine use here 
And we still talk about the photocopier, even though it is also a fax machine and network printer.
Xerox as a substitute never really caught on here. 
We had trouble getting our tongues around the pronunciation (exerox) 

Since I'm here -  chuckle for Daviesri - loved it, took a while though


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## ericaustin1305

timebomb said:
			
		

> Many Singaporeans call toothpaste "colgate" too in the old days. But now there are many more brands so it doesn't happen that often anymore.


 


			
				Merlin said:
			
		

> Here are some examples.
> 
> Toothpaste: Colgate
> Coffee: Nescafe'
> Mouthwash: Listerine
> Shampoo: Crimsillk
> Softdrink: Coke/Pepsi


 
In Hong Kong, we did not say "Coke" or " Coka-cola", we said "soft drink" when we bought food in fast food restaurant. Since there are more brands now, the cashiers in big fast food restaurants like McDonald's will start asking "do you mean Coke?" when the customer said he / she wants a "soft drink". Up till now, in some small fast food restaurant, when you say you want "soft drink" for your set lunch, he will give you Coke, unless you say "Spite" or "Fanta".


By the way, I never hear people say "Xerox" or "Photostat", we simply use "photocopy", "photocopier" and "copy/ies" for end products.


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## meili

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Xerox as a substitute never really caught on here.
> We had trouble getting our tongues around the pronunciation (exerox).


 
I see.  We pronounce it 'se-roks' around here (for the mass media).


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## Miguelillo 87

Another question, I know I can say Xerox and all people it's going to understand that I'm refering to Photocopy something. 

But Everybody actually understand it?

Should I satrt to use this verb?

Where xEROX IT'S USED AND wHERE PHOTOCOPY?

I know there're too much questions in one thread, but I hope you can help me to solve my doubt. 
Thank you!!!


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## timpeac

I never say xerox, and don't hear it said around me either - only photocopy. I would understand it though. I suppose I would assume it is AE.


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## Miguelillo 87

timpeac said:


> I never say xerox, and don't hear it said around me either - only photocopy. I would understand it though. I suppose I would assume it is AE.


Yes it is. So in UK i will nwvwe use xerox, so maybe that's why I have this question 'cause I lernes British English and when some weir AE concepts appeared I get in shock.
Thank you for the answer, but so, in US it's used?


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## Hakro

I'm afraid that at least Finns, maybe other Europeans, too, may have problems understanding xerox, even if they speak English quite well. Of course they could guess it in the context as Xerox machines are known here, too.


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## GenJen54

Xerox is an example where the actual name brand of the product took over the actual word for the process.

Xerox machines were used to make photocopies.  Somewhere along the way, people started calling these "Xerox" copies.  At some point later, the verb Xerox took the place of the verb "photocopy."

Google is another example of this.  Instead of saying "I'm going to perform an internet search," many people now say "I'm going to Google that..."

To be honest, and keep things simple, I would avoid the verb altogether.  It is not at all offensive, but since "photocopy" and "copy" are perfectly acceptable in both AE and BE (presumably also in Canada and/or Australia), then this is the easiest way to go.


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## Kelly B

Companies discourage the use of their trademarked names as verbs, because they risk losing the trademark status if the name becomes a "regular" word. See here. 

I think you should simply say "copy" or "make copies." It is good that you understand it when others use "xerox" that way, though.


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## mjscott

I agree that _to photocopy_ is the verb that should be used. If you want to know how widespread _to Xerox_ is used, however, as an informal vote of one, I have probably heard _to Xerox_ more often than _to photocopy._


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## Joelline

In the US, I think it's a matter of corporate culture.  In my university, almost everyone (certainly all of the secretaries) use "Xerox."  In a social service agency (in the same small city) where I do volunteer work, no one uses it; the use copy or photocopy.  

But Miguelillo87 is really asking if "xerox" is universal, and the answer to that question is NO, it's not, but "photocopy" is or appears to be.  My advice would be to stick to photocopy UNLESS he hears someone with whom he is dealing use Xerox (then he can switch over if he wants).

Hope this helps,
Joelline


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## Hockey13

Another great example of where the name of a company has turned into a verb is "TiVo." Many people now say "I'm going to tivo the game/show" as a replacement for "I'm going to digitally record the show" because I believe TiVo was the first company to really make this sort of device.


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## Joelline

To go back a few more years in the US, there's also Frigidaire and Kleenex!


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## JamesM

Also "escalator", "aspirin", "cellophane" and "mimeograph" - all originally trademarked names.


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## Hockey13

By the way, most of these are AmE examples, to the best of my knowledge!


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## Miguelillo 87

Joelline said:


> In the US, I think it's a matter of corporate culture. In my university, almost everyone (certainly all of the secretaries) use "Xerox." In a social service agency (in the same small city) where I do volunteer work, no one uses it; the use copy or photocopy.
> 
> But Miguelillo87 is really asking if "xerox" is universal, and the answer to that question is NO, it's not, but "photocopy" is or appears to be. My advice would be to stick to photocopy UNLESS he hears someone with whom he is dealing use Xerox (then he can switch over if he wants).
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Joelline


Thank Joellione, it'a avery goos advice, and thank you all for your answers. I think the better I can do it's to use always phocopy unless that in the group I were, people uses Xerox instead of ohotocopy.
Thank you again


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## ChrissyH

A British English example : to hoover  / a hoover - the vacuum cleaner.  I didn't understand the Tivo example at all - different cultures I guess.  When I first moved to France, friends asked if I had any scotch - I reached for the glasses and ice cubes, not realising that they were asking for some "sellotape" (adhesive plastic tape)


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## Miguelillo 87

Hoover it'a a really good example as a matter of fact I think Hoover it's aldo used in United States, Am I right?


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## Claire Steiner

I always say "copy", both as a substantive and a verb. It's true that in the US product names often become metonyms for more generic phenomena. I would venture to guess that the public discouragement of this substitution by the producers is wholly dishonest. Of course the manufacturers want their product names to be integrated into common usage! It's free advertising. There are actually laws that put (very limited) restrictions on this situation in the US, but these usually end up helping the companies in the long run, not the consumers. For example, If you order "Coke" (Coca-Cola) in a restaurant that uses Pepsi, the wait staff are required to ask you whether "Pepsi is alright?"

The word "Xerox" is a Greek word that means "powder", which is a reference to the means of photocopying where the printing cartrages, called "toners", are filled with powdered ink that becomes liquid with the heat of the machine.


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## JamesM

> I would venture to guess that the public discouragement of this substitution by the producers is wholly dishonest. Of course the manufacturers want their product names to be integrated into common usage! It's free advertising.


 
Actually, I don't think this is true.  The loss of control over a trademark can be a very costly thing for a corporation.  There is a definite investment in the intellectual property known as a trademark.


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## Joelline

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Hoover it'a a really good example as a matter of fact I think Hoover it's aldo used in United States, Am I right?


 
Miguelillo87,

The word "Hoover" in the US is merely a brand name of one kind of vacuum cleaner.  As far as I know, In Great Britain, it is also used as a verb:  "I have to hoover today."  No one that I know in the US would use it this way.  

Joelline


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## Hockey13

Joelline said:


> Miguelillo87,
> 
> The word "Hoover" in the US is merely a brand name of one kind of vacuum cleaner. As far as I know, In Great Britain, it is also used as a verb: "I have to hoover today." No one that I know in the US would use it this way.
> 
> Joelline


 
I agree. We would say, "to vacuum."


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## Miguelillo 87

Joelline said:


> Miguelillo87,
> 
> The word "Hoover" in the US is merely a brand name of one kind of vacuum cleaner. As far as I know, In Great Britain, it is also used as a verb: "I have to hoover today." No one that I know in the US would use it this way.
> 
> Joelline


Thank oyu very much aslo yo you Hockey13, I'm closer to US so I prefer to know this terms than the ones used in UK.


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## twinklestar

> Xerox noun [C] TRADEMARK
> 
> a copy of a document or other piece of paper with writing or printing on it, made by a machine that uses a photographic process, or the machine itself:
> 
> a Xerox of the letter
> a Xerox machine


 
Source: Cambridge Dictionary

Does "a Xerox of the letter" refer to the letter was made by a copy machine branded Xerox? Or just a copy of letter made by a copying machine with any brand?

Thanks!


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## Terry Morti

It just means a copy, not necessarily made on a Xerox-brand machine.


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## JamesM

This is a point of contention, actually.  "Xerox" is a brand name and they have worked doggedly to protect it.  They are attempting to prevent it from going the way of aspirin and elevator and many other brand names which have become the generic word for the item.  

The true generic word is "photocopy".  That said, I cannot count the number of times I hear "Xerox" used to mean "photocopy" on a daily basis.  I use it all the time, just as I use "Kleenex" to mean "facial tissue."


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## Terry Morti

It is used widely as a verb too, 'would you go and Xerox this document please?'


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## twinklestar

Hi guys, thank you for your help. I got it.


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## Brioche

JamesM said:


> This is a point of contention, actually.  "Xerox" is a brand name and they have worked doggedly to protect it.  They are attempting to prevent it from going the way of aspirin and elevator and many other brand names which have become the generic word for the item.



It's _*E**scalator*_, not elevator, that started life as a brand name.


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## katie_here

I've never heard anyone ask for a xerox of a document, always a photocopy.  Even the machines are called photocopy  machines.    I think the word "xerox" for photocopying hasn't caught on in England yet and I hope it never does. 

I also refuse to "hoover" my carpets, I have a vacuum cleaner and it's made by another company. I vacuum my carpets.  I don't like the way that trade name has become the norm for vacuuming.


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## Terry Morti

It is used in England quite widely.


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## katie_here

Terry Morti said:


> It is used in England quite widely.


 
Is it?  I've never heard it.   Well, there you go.  My one woman campaign didn't work!!! .


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## ewie

Terry Morti said:


> It is used in England quite widely.


Maybe so, Terry, but I believe Katie is right in saying that _photocopy_ is by far the commoner term.  When was the last time you saw a photocopying machine that said _Xeroxes done here ~ 10p each_ on it?

That said, I must say I *love* the word _xerox_


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## katie_here

ewie said:


> Maybe so, Terry, but I believe Katie is right in saying that _photocopy_ is by far the commoner term. When was the last time you saw a photocopying machine that said _Xeroxes done here ~ 10p each_ on it?
> 
> That said, I must say I *love* the word _xerox_


 
I've done a poll on my website to see how wide spread the word is!! 

Why can't they spell it Zerocks?


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## ewie

katie_here said:


> Why can't they spell it Zerocks?


It would lose much of its unique charm, Kat
How many _other_ English words start and end in _x_?


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## Terry Morti

This Business Week article states 





> When “to xerox” came to mean “to photocopy,” Xerox Corp was sitting on top of the information world. Now plenty of people “xerox” their documents on Canon or HP machines."


Now that xerox is no longer ubiquitous and most desks have their own printer/scanner/copier on them photocopiers are really on used for long runs, and the Xeroxing has become plain copying.

Although in 1983 in my first office job photocopies were called photostats or just stats.


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## katie_here

Terry Morti said:


> This Business Week article states
> Now that xerox is no longer ubiquitous and most desks have their own printer/scanner/copier on them photocopiers are really on used for long runs, and the Xeroxing has become plain copying.
> 
> Although in 1983 in my first office job photocopies were called photostats or just stats.


 
That's another word I've never used nor heard used.


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## Terry Morti

When I was at school the staff made purple copies (which smelt funny) using a Roneo machine. The copies were called Roneos.


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## katie_here

Terry Morti said:


> When I was at school the staff made purple copies (which smelt funny) using a Roneo machine. The copies were called Roneos.


 
Gestetner in my day (which incidently is only a couple of years before yours!).


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## Sepia

One point you are missing: The printing process in copying machines using toner was was brought on the market and probably also patented by the company Xerox. The technical term of this printing process is "xerography", but the process itself has become so commonplace that nobody seems to need a word for it. Since there was other ways of copying things that were less sophisticated people did not have many other options than to use the name "Xerox" as a verb. Later, when other machines of other brands entered the market, I cannot believe that anyone really cared if it was a Xerox or a Canon, when they told somebody to go xerox something.

Of course you also have the word "photocopy" but that word is twice as long - reason enough for "xerox" as a verb to survive for a long time.


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## Brioche

katie_here said:


> Gestetner in my day (which incidently is only a couple of years before yours!).



A Gestetner - named after the inventor David Gestetner - was _stencil duplicator_. The stencil was placed on a rotating, inked roller.

It could make almost unlimited copies - and if you weren't careful with the inky stencils, you could make an awful mess.

However, the machine which had that funny smell, and made purple copies was a _spirit duplicator_.

The spirit duplicator used an alcohol mix to transfer pigment from the master. That gave the copies their characteristic smell. In time, all the pigment was used up, so the number of copies was limited. The copies also faded in the light.

Roneo made both spirit and stencil duplicators.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

katie_here said:


> I also refuse to "hoover" my carpets, I have a vacuum cleaner and it's made by another company. I vacuum my carpets. I don't like the way that trade name has become the norm for vacuuming.


It should be noted that this is only a BE usage. Americans never speak of "hoovering" their carpets (we "vacuum" them), and a good many would have no idea what the verb was supposed to mean.


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## panjandrum

<<<.....>>>

Today's thread has been merged with the previous thread on exactly this topic.

Grumpily,
panj


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## timpeac

katie_here said:


> Is it?  I've never heard it. Well, there you go. My one woman campaign didn't work!!! .


 I'm with Katie on this one - apparently I posted this a couple of years ago in this thread, although I don't have a memory of it -



> I never say xerox, and don't hear it said around me either - only photocopy. I would understand it though. I suppose I would assume it is AE.


 
Perhaps  I should have xeroxed the post!


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## Terry Morti

Perhaps it depends what industry sector you have worked in? I've always worked in advertising and marketing, so maybe we were Americanised a bit by working on global brands. Or perhaps it was a technology thing, for a creative industry, like the Mac computer?


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## panjandrum

I love this thread.
Apart from anything else, it includes the first time my sense of humour created confusion in the forum (see post #25).

Terry M has a good point.  I worked in the IT world and we understood Xerox=copy from long, long ago because it was the term used by many of our contacts who worked in US-parent companies.


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## Porteño

I'd almost forgotten photostat, it being such a long time since I last heard it. Personally, I have often used 'xerox' as a verb and a noun - '_I'm going to xerox this_' '_I'm going to have a xerox made of this._' There are quite a number of brand names that are used as nouns or verbs in the English language, like 'hoover' as was mentioned earlier. Another one that springs to mind is 'fridge' which I believe has its origin in the brand name 'Frigidaire' rather than being a kind of abbreviation from 'refrigerator' as some people seem to think.


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## katie_here

Porteño said:


> I'd almost forgotten photostat, it being such a long time since I last heard it. Personally, I have often used 'xerox' as a verb and a noun - '_I'm going to xerox this_' '_I'm going to have a xerox made of this._' There are quite a number of brand names that are used as nouns or verbs in the English language, like 'hoover' as was mentioned earlier. Another one that springs to mind is 'fridge' which I believe has its origin in the brand name 'Frigidaire' rather than being a kind of abbreviation from 'refrigerator' as some people seem to think.


 

I actually thought that the word Frigidaire came from Refridgerator.  You learn something new every day!.


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## ewie

ericaustin1305 said:


> Up till now, in some small fast food restaurant, when you say you want "soft drink" for your set lunch, he will give you Coke, unless you say "Spite" or "Fanta".


I've been drinking quite a lot of that recently


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