# κιθαρα and כִּנּוֹר‎



## Flaminius

It just occurred to me that κιθαρα and כִּנּוֹר‎ may be remote cognates. Martin Bernal (_Black Athena_ vol. 3) cites an article by Colin Renfrew to count the former among words "which have strong Semitic or Semito-Egyptian etymologies," (608-7 n.27) but Renfrew actually produced a list of words of possible Mioan origin.

Still, the Greek and the Hebrew words look similar enough to find a possible relationship.  Is there a good argument out there?  For what it worth, a legendary king, Kinyrās is said to have invented musical instruments and have been a beloved of Apollo.  Chantraine in DELG seems to have doubted that κιθαρα has an oriental etymology.  Is this "oriental loan" a code word for Semitic origin?


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## Abaye

Kithara sounds similar to another biblical instrument, the gittith.

Kinnor's name is common to many Semitic languages, among them Akkadian, Ugaritic, Aramaic, possibly of Indian origin: 





> כינור, כלי מיתרים קדום. שמו משותף לרבות מן השפות השמיות, ובהן אכדית, אוגריתית וארמית, אך ייתכן שמקורו בהודו.


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## fdb

Beekes says that κιθαρα is "pre-Greek" and rejects previously posited  IE or Semitic parallels. Note that neither Bernal nor Renfrew is a professional linguist.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

PIE has no words for musical instruments. I think Proto-semitic does.


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## Abaye

This article may be relevant for kinnor (but not for kithara): Kinyras and Kinnaru


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## sotos

In a non properly referenced etymology I see the gr. κιθάρη etymologized from the doric κίθαρος = chest, thorax. But it could be the other way around.


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## Abaye

sotos said:


> ... I see the gr. κιθάρη etymologized from the doric κίθαρος = chest, thorax ...


This is interesting, it implies that the significant feature of kithara is the hollow body where sounds resonate (sorry if using inaccurate terminology). But for the biblical kinnor, kind of a harp, the strings are the main thing, it may have no body whatsoever. So from this point of view the two words and instruments are unlikely to be related... unless when borrowed, the original meaning was already forgotten.


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## sotos

Well, the Etymologicon Magnum has the same etymology, but "because the ribs resemble the strings." We have also the mount Κιθαιρών, according to Et. Magnum because Amphion was playing there his guitar: Κίθαρος 
All these may be "folk etymologies", which means they must be taken seriously.


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## Flaminius

I just stumbled upon great replies on the 10th of May, thanks.  I will post EM's more eye-friendly version for future reference: Κίθαρος


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## berndf

sotos said:


> All these may be "folk etymologies", which means they must be taken seriously.


I don't quite understand what you mean taking "folk etymology" "seriously" is prima facia a contradiction in terms.


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## Perseas

berndf said:


> I don't quite understand what you mean taking "folk etymology" "seriously" is prima facia a contradiction in terms.


He probably meant "must not be taken seriously".


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## berndf

Perseas said:


> He probably meant "must not be taken seriously".


Yes, probably.


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## sotos

berndf said:


> I don't quite understand what you mean taking "folk etymology" "seriously" is prima facia a contradiction in terms.


I believe that many words are formed by processes of "folk etymology" (at least in greek).


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## berndf

There is no such thing as a process of creation by folk etymology. The term "folk etymology" refers to an *erroneous* popular belief about the origin of a word or expression.


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## Abaye

> Folk etymology or reanalysis – sometimes called  popular etymology, analogical reformation, or etymological reinterpretation – is a change in a word or phrase resulting from the replacement of an unfamiliar form by a more familiar one.


Folk etymology - Wikipedia


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## berndf

I thought he was talking about the original creation of a word and not about twists caused by folk etymological misinterpretation. Have I misunstood him?


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