# هُم / هِم



## Jamal31

Hello,

In several Arabic books now I've seen about the word/suffix هم that it can be written as هُم and هِم, but with no further detail. I was wondering what exactly the difference would be in their use?

Also, can the هِم version only be applied when a suffix (e.g. كلابهِم / كلابهُم "Their dogs"), or can it also be used as a standalone word (e.g. هِم كلاب / هُم كلاب "They're dogs")?


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> In several Arabic books now I've seen about the word/suffix هم that it can be written as هُم and هِم, but with no further detail. I was wondering what exactly the difference would be in their use?



There is no difference in meaning. The difference is in how the pronoun is pronounced depending upon what precedes it. The pronouns ـهُ ـهُمَا ـهُمْ ـهُنَّ, when the letter that precedes them has a kasra on it or is a ي letter without a vowel, they will become ـهِ ـهِمَا ـهِمْ ـهِنَّ.
So taking your example, the word كتابه in the three cases would look like كتابُهُ كتابَهُ كتابِهِ. In the genitive example, the ـهُ is preceded by a letter that has a kasra on it, so the ـهُ becomes a ـهِ.


Jamal31 said:


> Also, can the هِم version only be applied when a suffix (e.g. كلابهِم / كلابهُم "Their dogs"), or can it also be used as a standalone word (e.g. هِم كلاب / هُم كلاب "They're dogs")?



No; the subject pronouns هُوَ هُمَا هُمْ هُنَّ will never have their dhammas change to kasras. This only applies to the suffix pronouns. So there will never been an instance where you'll say هِمْ كلاب.


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## figgles

Just to add my two cents:
If you focus on the sound and not the orthography, what you hear is basically "vowel harmony". It takes more movement to say "bihum" than to say "bihim". This is because /u/ is a back vowel and /i/ is a front vowel -- switching between the two takes more effort. If you think of it as simply vowel harmony, it doesn't seem as arbitrary.

It also shows up (for example) in the Egyptian dialect for some verbs like "y*u*khrug" (he leaves/goes out) instead of "y*i*khrug" (MSA: yakhruju). I suspect that "mish" and "mush" are much the same way (seems to vary by region and context?)


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## Jamal31

That clears it up, thanks. Just to be clear, there is never a circumstance in which هم would be written as هَم with a Fathah, correct?


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## figgles

Correct, only kasra and dhamma, and only kasra in the circumstances that Matat mentioned.


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## Jamal31

Ok thanks!


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## Jamal31

Matat said:


> The pronouns ـهُ ـهُمَا ـهُمْ ـهُنَّ



Pardon the bump of this thread, but regarding the suffix of ـه, will it always have a Dhammah on it if there is a Fathah or Dhammah preceding it, or does it take a Fathah if there is a Fathah preceding it and a Dhammah if that precedes it?

Also, the suffix of ـهَا never changes correct?


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## Matat

Jamal31 said:


> Pardon the bump of this thread, but regarding the suffix of ـه, will it always have a Dhammah on it if there is a Fathah or Dhammah preceding it,



Yes. I gave the examples كتابُهُ and كتابَهُ above.


Jamal31 said:


> or does it take a Fathah if there is a Fathah preceding it and a Dhammah if that precedes it?



No.


Jamal31 said:


> Also, the suffix of ـهَا never changes correct?



Yes. It never changes.


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## Jamal31

Ok, thanks for the clarification.


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## Jamal31

[Mod note: Merged with the previous thread about the same topic. Cherine]
Hello,
http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/هُم-هِم.3141694/
I was wondering when the word or suffix هم / ـهم would have a Dhammah added to the end of it.

Some examples from the Quran:

2:12
أَلَآ إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْسِدُونَ

2:61
وَضُرِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلذِّلَّةُ وَٱلْمَسْكَنَةُ وَبَآءُو

2:121
ٱلَّذِينَ ءَاتَيْنَٰهُمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ يَتْلُونَهُۥ حَقَّ

Also, is it possible to take any other Harakat e.g. هُمَ هُمِ هِمِ هُمِ, or only a final Dhammah?

Note that I am strictly talking about Fusha and not MSA.


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## analeeh

I think only a final dhamma. This is a vowel inserted to allow for the 'liaison' across word boundaries. al- and a few other words begin with a hamzat waSl which means that their initial hamza-vowel sequence (in this case 2a) exists only at the beginning of an utterance or after a pause to avoid an initial consonant cluster. Following other words it is dropped and the final vowel of the preceding word stands in for it: يقول البعض yaquul-ulba3Du. Practically all words end with a vowel, but some - like hum - do not and require an additional short vowel. The choice of vowel is determined I think by the vowel of the word itself - hum-u but min-a.


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## Jamal31

So basically it appears as liaison before the prefix Al-, correct?

Also, could you clarify what you mean by "hum-u but min-a?


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## Matat

Whenever a letter that ends with sukoon is followed by a word that starts with همزة الوصل "the elidable hamza" (i.e. ٱ ), a helping vowel must be added. Depending on what the noun, verb, or particle is will determine the acceptable helping vowel. It's not just in cases of الـ, but anytime there is a همزة الوصل. For همْ, whenever it is followed by an elidable hamza, the helping vowel to use is a dhamma. This applies to both the subject pronoun هُمْ and the possessive pronoun ـهُمْ. This also applies to the subject pronoun أَنْتُمْ and the possessive pronoun ـكُمْ.

From a more Classical standpoint, I feel like I remember reading one time that there were Arab tribes who used to always say ـهُمُ, regardless whether the next word started with the elidable hamza or not. Today, the helping vowel is only employed when necessary.


Jamal31 said:


> Also, is it possible to take any other Harakat e.g. هُمَ هُمِ هِمِ هُمِ, or only a final Dhammah?



Whenever the possessive pronoun ـهُمْ has a kasra which precedes it, it can become ـهِمْ. In this case, there are two helping vowel options. You can add a dhamma ـهِمُ or a kasra ـهِمِ; it's the author's choice which one he wants to use. Once again, this may have to do with how different Arab tribes spoke. I don't believe that هُمَ or هُمِ are possible options.


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## analeeh

Not just al-, anything with a hamzat waSl. So certain maSdars (انقطاع استطاع اضطراب احمرار for example), and a handful of nouns (ابن اسم for example). Though in MSA many of these forms are increasingly spelt with hamzat qaT3.

من min is another one of these words that ends with a consonant, but it is followed by an -a in these contexts. Another is the feminine suffix -at which becomes -ati.


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## Jamal31

That makes sense. Is there any way to know which Harakat to use for the various words that end in consonant? For example how to to that مِنْ becomes مِنَ and not مِنِ , مِنُ, etc.


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## Matat

It's mostly with experience that you'll come to know them. There is no intuitive way to know them. In some cases, there is more than one correct option.

As for مِنْ, it's kind of unusual. Because with مِنْ, if the next word starts with the definite article الـ, you use a FatHa;
مِنَ الْبَيْتِ
However, if it starts with anything else, you use a kasra:
مِنِ اسْتِئْنَافِ الْأَمْرِ


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## Jamal31

Ok, thanks for the clarification guys.


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