# to try



## divisortheory

Hi all,

I'm a little uncertain about the meaning of ～てみる。  Every book or grammar explanation always translates it as "to try".  But in my gut, I feel like this doesn't really capture the full meaning of the word "try" in English.  

Whenever I have seen this expression in Japanese, it doesn't seem like the thing being "tried" is very difficult or taxing on the person.  I almost have come to think of it more like "give it a try" rather than "try".  it makes it sound like it's not going to be extremely difficult, or the consequences of failing are not dire, perhaps.  Also, it means you can't use it with actions in progress.

Maybe an example of where I think ～てみる would *not* be appropriate would help.  

I am _trying_ to quit smoking.
I have _tried_ 3 times to pass the exam, and failed every time.    But I will _try_ harder next time.
I have been _trying_ to hack into the government's network for many months.

Am I correct that ～てみる would not be appropriate in these cases?  What could I use instead?  When I asked my teacher about the first sentence, she said I could say タバコを止めようと思ってる, but to me that sounds like I haven't even started "trying" yet.  I asked about if I can use しようとしてる (for example, タバコを止めるのをしようとしてる） but she said she feels like that is more appropriate if you are talking about a 3rd person.  For example, "*He* is trying to quit smoking" rather than yourself.

Anyone have any thoughts about this situation?


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## Juuuergen

ーてみる is not appropriate in these cases. As you thought, てみる is used more like "to try something to see what it's like" or "to try something to see what will happen." 

You are looking to express an attempt. For that, you would use the とする form. You take the plain volitional form of a verb and add とする to it. 

Example:

ドアを開けようとしたけど、かぎがかかっていた。 I tried to open the door but it was locked.
ドアを開けてみた。　I tried opening the door (to see what would happen). 

Hope this helps you


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## divisortheory

It more or less confirms what I thought, but I wonder then why my teacher said she thought [V-vol] + とする seemed less appropriate when talking about oneself.


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## almostfreebird

しようとしてる or　やめようとしてる　or　行こうとしてる　etc., etc.
These are, for lack of a better word, observational expression or descriptive expression.
That's why "彼はタバコをやめようとしてる"　sounds natural, 
and "わたしはタバコをやめようとしてる"　sounds weird(in conversation); if you are writing a novel, there's no problem with the sentence.


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## q_006

almostfreebird said:


> しようとしてる or　やめようとしてる　or　行こうとしてる　etc., etc.
> These are, for lack of a better word, observational expression or descriptive expression.
> That's why "彼はタバコをやめようとしてる"　sounds natural,
> and *"わたしはタバコをやめようとしてる"　sounds weird(in conversation); if you are writing a novel, there's no problem with the sentence.*


What would be natural, conversational way to say this sentence?


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## almostfreebird

q_006 said:


> What would be natural, conversational way to say this sentence?



（わたしは）タバコをやめようと思います。 or
（わたしは）タバコをやめるつもりです。


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## divisortheory

almostfreebird said:


> （わたしは）タバコをやめようと思います。 or
> （わたしは）タバコをやめるつもりです。



Wouldn't this imply that one has not yet started the process of quitting smoking?  It sounds to me like this just says "I plan to quit smoking".


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## almostfreebird

divisortheory said:


> Wouldn't this imply that one has not yet started the process of quitting smoking?  It sounds to me like this just says "I plan to quit smoking".



well, yes, you're right, though they are commonly used expression.

Then how about this;　when somebody asks you "Did you quit smoking?"

Your answer: 今、禁煙中(kin-en chû)なんです。
　         or　今、禁煙してるところなんです。
They both mean "I'm trying to quit smoking".


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## q_006

今、禁煙してるところなんです。
Is that: 


Ima, kinenshiteru tokorona n desu.
or
Ima, kinenshiteru tokoro nan desu.
?

If it's 1, why the "na n desu"? If it's 2, why the "nan desu"?


*I assume nan = nani

Is: 私は車を言ってしようとしている。 a good translation of: I am trying to say car.

*As in the word, "car". For context, you are trying to remember the word for "car" in Japanese.


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## almostfreebird

q_006 said:


> Is: 私は車を言ってしようとしている。 a good translation of: I am trying to say car.
> 
> *As in the word, "car". For context, you are trying to remember the word for "car" in Japanese.



日本語で車のこと　何て(nánte)言うか　思い出そうとしてるところです。
I'm trying to remember how you say car in Japanese.



q_006 said:


> 今、禁煙してるところなんです。
> Is that:
> 
> 
> Ima, kinenshiteru tokorona n desu.
> or
> Ima, kinenshiteru tokoro nan desu.
> ?
> 
> If it's 1, why the "na n desu"? If it's 2, why the "nan desu"?
> 
> 
> *I assume nan = nani



なん is a contraction of なの, and its function is to assert mildly.

Formal:
彼は学生です。(He is a student.)
彼は学生なんです。(He is a student, you know.)

Informal:
彼は学生なの。(female language)
彼は学生なんだ。(male language)


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## Aoyama

Here, we are in the realm of what I will call "idiosyncratical Japanese".
 （わたしは）タバコをやめようと思います。= I am thinking about quiting/I would like to quit/ smoking
（わたしは）タバコをやめるつもりです = I am willing/I have the intention/ to quit smoking (this one stronger than above)
禁煙してるところ*[なん]です = I'm in the process of quiting smoking (なん is colloquial)
* or 禁煙中,中 = in the process of


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## almostfreebird

My idea is that 禁煙(to quit smoking) is not an easy thing, it requires effort;
so those examples naturally suggest "to be trying; to be making efforts".

PS. off-topic: I wonder why you have to quit smoking. In the future, smoking might be proved to be a nice thing.


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## divisortheory

I noticed in the suggested translation for "I'm trying to remember how to say car" that [volitional] + とする form was used.

日本語で車のこと　何て(nánte)言うか　思い出そうとしてるところです。

In this example, does it not sound "observational" (i.e. about a 3rd person?)  Does it sound in this case like the speaker is talking about himself?


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## almostfreebird

divisortheory said:


> I noticed in the suggested translation for "I'm trying to remember how to say car" that [volitional] + とする form was used.
> 
> 日本語で車のこと　何て(nánte)言うか　思い出そうとしてるところです。
> 
> In this example, does it not sound "observational" (i.e. about a 3rd person?)  Does it sound in this case like the speaker is talking about himself?



(A) 日本語で車のこと　何て(nánte)言うか　思い出そうとしてるところです。
　　　　I'm in the process of remembering how you say car in Japanese.


(B) わたしは or　あなたは 日本語で車のことを　何と(nánto)言うか　思い出そうとしています。
     I am trying to remember how you say car in Japanese.
     or
     You are trying to remember how you say car in Japanese.


I recommend you to use A in conversation, 
and I recommend you to use B when you hypnotize yourself.




divisortheory said:


> In this example, does it not sound "observational" (i.e. about a 3rd person?) Does it sound in this case like the speaker is talking about himself?



Of course you can say both "彼は日本語で車のこと　何て言うか　思い出そうとしてるところです"
and "彼は日本語で車のこと　何て言うか　思い出そうとしています".
They both sound natural.


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## almostfreebird

Reference:  -tokoro desu  http://homepage3.nifty.com/i-yasu/Lesson-e36.htm

http://homepage3.nifty.com/i-yasu/Lesson-e11.htm

http://homepage3.nifty.com/park/aspect.htm#top


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