# Irritating French



## agoodeno

When a native French speaker hears someone who's learning French (such as myself) speak, what are some of the commonly-heard aspects of his/her speech that are unpleasant, irritating or jarring to the French ear?

Examples would be: 

Just plain old misunderstanding or not having a clue to what the speaker just said.
Bizarre inflection or stress.
Getting the gender of nouns wrong.
Wrong verb conjugation.
Too slow.
Overpronunciation.
Mispronunciation.
Strange (not wrong, just unusual) word choice.
Bad grammar in general.
Mumbling.
The accent that all speakers of that language share.
Too much or incorrect gesturing.
Incomplete sentences (like this one).

I'm asking so that I can watch out for these pitfalls when I speak, and try to minimize them.

Alan


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## polgara

i personnally find the little mistakes that foreign people make when speaking french very charming (especially wrong gender and accent).
what is 'irritating' is that people who learn french are better than we are in grammar because they know all the rules


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## Agnès E.

I do concur.

I would never imagine thinking that someone who makes the effort of learning such a difficult language as French to be irritating, unpleasant or jarring! 
I am just admiring the effort... really, I would never be able to make the same to learn another very difficult language, I'm afraid.


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## Damz

I think what english people have the most difficulty with when speaking french is the pronounciation of the french "R" and  of course the gender. And then there's the verb tense, but that's a difficulty for everybody


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## french4beth

In my opinion, after living for 6 years in Canada (Quebec province), the French were very appreciative of any attempts at speaking in French, no matter how rusty or limited one's French is.  

I think what many French found 'jarring' was the fact that many American tourists automatically expected all Quebecois to speak English; I do my best to educate my fellow American citizens, however, and explain that the French people have been in Canada for 500+ years, and have always spoken this language!

And of course, it helps to have a good sense of humor when learning a new language (such as when I asked for a 'cendrillon' instead of a 'cendrier' ).

As a former Russian language student, and a current Japanese student, French ain't got nothing on non-Romance languages!


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## Damz

"French ain't got nothing on non-Romance languages!"

Does it mean "there's no link between French and non-latin languages" ?

If so, then yes I guess going from english to french to russian to japanese is not the easiest route  

I don't know anything about japanese, but however russian seems simpler than french. Am I right ?


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## french4beth

Sorry, damz, what I meant was that it is much easier (for me, any way) to learn a Romance language (French, Spanish, etc.) than a Cyrillic language (Russian - many more verb tenses & noun declensions) or an Asian language (Japanese - no plurals, words are stressed equally, etc.).  

Luckily, I started studying Russian when I was 11 years old, so I already had a few years of French (started at 8 years old). In the 1700's & 1800's, French was spoken (almost exclusively) in Russian high society, so surprisingly enough, many Russian & French words are very similar.  But no, I found Russian to be much harder than French, plus it's a mix of Cyrillic & Roman languages!  Oh, I also took an adult ed course in Spanish a few years back!  I found Spanish the easiest of all to learn (as far as pronunciation), but the grammar can be brutal...


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## Damz

Oh, thanks for the explanation ! I'm not very familiair with "ain't got nothing", they don't teach it at school 

I do agree about spanish (especially when you've studied french before) being easy to learn. Quite often you'll find yourself taking a french word  and simply pronouncing it à la spanish.


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## french4beth

FYI- ain't got nothing = there's no comparison 

They never seem to teach the interesting stuff at school! Like how to order a beer, how to curse, etc.! Of cou rse, in Quebec, "Un bud" or "Un bleu" is all you need to know to get a beer! Then, there's the question of size (un gros, etc.)... oh well! I found it best to stay away from "les grosses bières (32 oz/I dunno in metric!).

En parlant de la bière  :
 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cielmonsite/biere/breves.htm


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## geve

Bière, vous avez dit bière ?? Me voilà !  (Beth, ces points d'exclamation sont très exagérés à mon avis)

Of course we do not get irritated, we appreciate the effort and might even find your mistakes charming, as Polgara said. 

Isn't it the same when you hear a French struggling to speak English ? 
Please tell us it is !!!


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## french4beth

Personally, I find French accents to be very charming (to the point of previously being married to a Quebecker  'pur laine' 'de souche'  - l'amour est aveugle, n'est pas? Je ne ferai plus jamais de 'blind dates'!).

I am always intrigued by foreign accents, French or otherwise - I'm constantly trying to figure out where the person is from, etc. (but I am a fanatic about American animated movies - I'm always trying to figure out who the voice-over actor is!).  

I, too, greatly appreciate any and all efforts made by non-native speakers; I used to be an English as a Second Language instructor and I know how difficult it can be to learn English!  Especially verb tenses, prepositions, and idiomatic expressions (same goes for me in French!).


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## Kelly B

geve said:
			
		

> Isn't it the same when you hear a French struggling to speak English ?
> Please tell us it is !!!


Mais bien sûr, sans aucun doute. Surtout lorsqu'elle "mache" ses lettres r, à l'américaine, ama. Laisser tomber ses h ('allo, 'ow arrrre you?) est également charmant, sans ajouter aucune difficulté de compréhension.


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## Damz

french4beth said:
			
		

> FYI- ain't got nothing = there's no comparison
> 
> They never seem to teach the interesting stuff at school! Like how to order a beer, how to curse, etc.! Of cou rse, in Quebec, "Un bud" or "Un bleu" is all you need to know to get a beer! Then, there's the question of size (un gros, etc.)... oh well! I found it best to stay away from "les grosses bières (32 oz/I dunno in metric!).
> 
> En parlant de la bière  :
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cielmonsite/biere/breves.htm



They teach you how to write, but not how to speak, and not how to write spoken language. So you're like "hell yeah, English and I have no secrets", and then you go out in the street and realize you know nothing :/

32 oz is about 1 liter, 1 oz = 30 mL (or 29,57353 more precisely)

So you moved to Quebec when you were 18 am I right ? 

By the way, this one was good : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cielmonsite/biere/breves.htm#d1


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## foucrazyfoucrazy

I don't know if others (french people) actually notice it themselves, but when I'm talking french to someone who IS french, or just KNOWS french really well, I feel like I'm no good at french AT ALL, and, sometimes, I can't even speak properly. i stumble over my words.  But that's mostly onyl when I'm talking to my french teachers.. they look at me so angrily/exasperatedly when listening to my attempts to speak the language that drives me insane because of all it's impossible ways of saying things, and the way you have to pay soo much attention to every crazy little detail.  For instance: plurals, verbes, feminin/masculin... to name a few... a very few..


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## Cath.S.

I agree with what's been said so far, I never get irritated when a foreigner tries to speak French even when his grammar/accent/vocabulary are awful. I think it is charming and I always try and help him.

I do get _very_ irritated, on the other hand,  at English-speaking people who come to France and expect us to speak and understand English and don't make any effort.


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## Kelly B

Maintenant que j'ai déjà écrit mon petit mot, je crains que l'on ne s'emmele dans le tchat....


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## geve

ok, je note : "dorénavant, penser à oublier de dire les H en anglais"  

I too teach Français Langue Etrangère as a volunteer, and it surely reminds me how difficult the language is (and also, how difficult it is sometimes, to explain things you don't even remember learning... It happened more than once that I had to check a French grammar rule before explaining it to the class  )
So really, I cannot blame any foreigner to have troubles with conjugaisons, or struggling with the U sound, or any other tricky points most (all?) languages are full of !


edit: euh, oui, c'est peut-être pas faux, Kelly...  mais les gens ont besoin d'être rassurés sur leurs efforts en français !! ...


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## Damz

foucrazy I know what you mean, the same happens to me in english. When talkin to someone who's english is worse than mine, I'm quite comfortable and fluid, but if It's his mother tongue I'll "choke" :S

Makes me angry.


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## foucrazyfoucrazy

I'm glad I'm not the ONLY one!


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## Hakro

geve said:
			
		

> Isn't it the same when you hear a French struggling to speak English ?
> Please tell us it is !!!


 I have once before on these forums mentioned that when I pronounced badly foreign languages, there has been only one country where some people disliked my lousy pronuciation so much that they turned their back to me. It was France. This didn't happen many times but more than once. It has never happened when I'm speaking English although I pronounce English even more lousily than French. 

I still love France and French people.

Our French teacher in Paris often said: "Ne jeujeutez pas!" meaning "Pronounce clearly!" We of course tried to hide our mistakes in a mumbling pronunciation. 

So I believe that the bad pronuciation is the most irritating feature for the French. Instead, the English (including Americans) have more patience and understanding for pronuciation difficulties.


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## bernik

I like to hear French spoken with an American or English accent, but I think it is more difficult to understand than someone speaking with a German or Spanish accent.
I think the American/English accent is more noticeable.


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## geve

I don't know, then, Hakro. Maybe there are some accents more charming than others... or, maybe there are French people who get more easily irritated.

It has happened before that I got irritated at someone's bad accent_ in English_ - because I couldn't get a word of what he was saying, which was quite disturbing for the efficiency of our business call.


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## Hakro

geve said:
			
		

> I don't know, then, Hakro. Maybe there are some accents more charming than others... or, maybe there are French people who get more easily irritated.
> 
> It has happened before that I got irritated at someone's bad accent_ in English_ - because I couldn't get a word of what he was saying, which was quite disturbing for the efficiency of our business call.


I have a French tenant, a young French man who speaks fluent English with a French accent. Usually we speak English (it's easier for me) but sometimes I have to ask him to say it in French to be sure to understand it right. His accent can be difficult to understand. I'm never irritated but I want to be sure what he means. On the other hand, I'm embarrassed that my French isn't fluent enough.


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## Anna banana

geve said:
			
		

> Of course we do not get irritated, we appreciate the effort and might even find your mistakes charming, as Polgara said.


 
I am really glad to hear this. My French teacher is always working with us on pronunciation... She says that the French think American accents sound "stupid" and "foolish." I didn't really think it was true but I was a little worried because I'm travelling to France in a month. Now I'm less nervous  



> Isn't it the same when you hear a French struggling to speak English ?
> Please tell us it is !!!


 
Yes, definately, especially in America. A lot of American girls think accents (French, German, etc) are sexy


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## agoodeno

Interesting. When I started this thread, I was expecting rants. Instead the general attitudes seem to be bemusement and admiration (except when the listener is a French teacher).

Oh, and one vote each for poor French Rs and mispronunciation.

Alan


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## Tabac

french4beth said:
			
		

> Personally, I find French accents to be very charming


I especially like hearing a native French person speaking English with the British accent they learned.  It's truly beautiful!


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## xav

The only thing which can irritate me is an evident lack of efforts to understand and/or to be understood. Learning a foreign language is such a big deal that I'm always grateful to foreigners who try to speak French, whatever accent or difficults they may have.


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## agoodeno

french4beth said:
			
		

> Personally, I find French accents to be very charming (to the point of previously being married to a Quebecker  'pur laine' 'de souche'  - l'amour est aveugle, n'est pas? Je ne ferai plus jamais de 'blind dates'!).



Beth,

What does "pur laine de souche" mean? Of pure wool stock? Was he a sheep?

Alan


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## romenk

french4beth said:
			
		

> As a former Russian language student, and a current Japanese student, French ain't got nothing on non-Romance languages!


 

You got that right.


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## french4beth

agoodeno said:
			
		

> What does "pur laine de souche" mean? Of pure wool stock? Was he a sheep?


 
quebecois 'de souche' - heard in Quebec, referring to a French person who is a descendant of an original French settlers (compared to more recent immigrants); from multidico: 'origine d'une famille'

quebecois 'pur laine' - same as above

(p.s. I wouldn't insult a sheep by comparing it to my ex-husband  )

here's another link to 'joual' expressions (see bottom of page):
http://www.eurotexte.fr/traduction/tips_quebec_intro.shtml


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## geve

"pure laine" and "de souche" are heard in France too  

My guess is that "pure laine" comes from labels on wool sweaters
_=> "XX pure laine" = 100% XX_

"de souche" : "la souche" is the part of the tree that is in the ground 
_=> "XX de souche" = XX d'origine, par ses racines, depuis toujours_


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## Lucien

agoodeno said:


> When a native French speaker hears someone who's learning French (such as myself) speak, what are some of the commonly-heard aspects of his/her speech that are unpleasant, irritating or jarring to the French ear?
> 
> Examples would be:
> 
> Just plain old misunderstanding or not having a clue to what the speaker just said.
> Bizarre inflection or stress.
> Getting the gender of nouns wrong.
> Wrong verb conjugation.
> Too slow.
> Overpronunciation.
> Mispronunciation.
> 
> 
> Strange (not wrong, just unusual) word choice.
> Bad grammar in general.
> Mumbling.
> The accent that all speakers of that language share.
> Too much or incorrect gesturing.
> Incomplete sentences (like this one).
> 
> I'm asking so that I can watch out for these pitfalls when I speak, and try to minimize them.
> 
> Alan


 
Hi agoodeno,
Can I thank you for starting, and those who have contributed to, a most interesting 'thread'. I have only now come across it but I will print all that is available to date so that in my next period of depression and despair,which sometimes follow my attemps at oral french, I can take heart by knowing I am not alone.

Thanks again.
Regards,
lucien


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## Yul

french4beth, 

Here is a likeable "commonly-heard aspect" : il faut commander "une Bud", "une Blue" (on dit une bleue), "une Ex" etc.

Une petite ou une grosse? Tablette?
Yul


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## OlivierG

Hi, all 

The original request having been fully addressed, it is now time to close this thread.
If you need more explanation about a term or an expression from this thread, please feel free to open a new thread. You can link to this one or quote some parts in order to provide the required context.

Thanks for your comprehension,
Olivier
Moderator


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