# Successful/Unsuccessful (financially and otherwise)



## RhoKappa

How does one say in Russian that somebody is financially successful?  My dictionary defines successful as успешный, but my friends tell me that that счастлив/несчастлив is more correct.  However, doesn't that literally translate to lucky?


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## estreets

финансово успешный is OK.
and счастлив/несчастлив is likely to be happy, lucky etc./unhappy, unlucky etc.


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## Saluton

I can't imagine a context where *successful* would be best translated as *счастливый*.


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## Selyd

Нормально - 
_финансово успешный_
_финансово неудачливый_
Не звучит -
_финансово счастливый_
_финансово несчастливый_
Может сойдет - 
_Счастлив в финансовых делах_
_Несчастлив в финансовых делах_


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## morzh

Financially successful - удачлив в деньгах.

Also, if it is about a person who is just well off (as different from a person who is successful in dealing with finances, which is not the same) - it is "обеспеченный".


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## RhoKappa

Saluton said:


> I can't imagine a context where *successful* would be best translated as *счастливый*.


Perhaps this is a Ukrainian expression for successful?  Here in America, a person who has no financial success is simply referred to as a "loser."  I asked a few people in Ukraine what the equivalent translation is and, after having fully explained what a loser was, the answer I received was simply несчастлив.  However, I have already understood that the word implies luck, but I suppose that such luck in that context is understood as financial success or failure.  Perhaps you guys know better?


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## oleksii

Loser is неудачник in russian. Or you can even say лузер and will be perfectly understood in both Ukraine and Russia. 

I fail to see why your ukrainian friends have suggested несчастлив, it has different meaningh


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## Deem-A

Extending I would add состоятельный  /( финансово) обеспеченный ,since for me the English expression financially successful can mean in a certain degree ''rich''.


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## Wertis

estreets said:


> финансово успешный is OK.
> and счастлив/несчастлив is likely to be happy, lucky etc./unhappy, unlucky etc.



I agree that "финансово успешный" is probably the best and the most accurate translation.


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## Wertis

RhoKappa said:


> Perhaps this is a Ukrainian expression for successful?  Here in America, a person who has no financial success is simply referred to as a "loser."



Much depends on what is financial success for you. If you earned 3,000$ per month would it be financial success? How about 1,000$, 6,000$, etc.? You need to define the sum of money and then make a classification because otherwise it won't make much sense. I also wanted to say that in Russian "loser" is a humiliating and offensive word. If you call someone "loser" seriously, this may result in a  quarrel or scuffle because no one wants to be "loser". Usually we say that people are "losers" when they failed to do what they were supposed to do and what many other people have successfully coped with. Not necessarily about earning money. When you can't solve a simple problem people can call you a loser. When you have been deceived by someone and other people knew about that and managed to avoid being deceived, they might call you a loser because you didn't manage to foresee that and lost something (money, documents, property, etc.). Very often we say this word as a joke and of course people won't get offended in this case. But don't abuse this word.



RhoKappa said:


> I asked a few people in Ukraine what the equivalent translation is and, after having fully explained what a loser was, the answer I received was simply несчастлив. However, I have already understood that the word implies luck, but I suppose that such luck in that context is understood as financial success or failure. Perhaps you guys know better?



I don't know how Ukranians use the word "loser", but in my country it doesn't mean "несчастлив". This meaning can follow from the meaning of "loser" but not the other way round. Your suggestion about luck is correct because losers are people who suffer from lack of luck.


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## RhoKappa

oleksii said:


> Loser is неудачник in Russian.


I suppose that неудачник is gender specific to male.  What about for a female?  Would she be неудачница?


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## Rosett

rhokappa said:


> i suppose that неудачник is gender specific to male. What about for a female? Would she be неудачница?


Неудачница.
Можно сказать неудачник о женщине - тоже.
Она по жизни неудачник.


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## morzh

"По жизни" даже для разговорного жанра - моветон. Не нужно учить иностранцев черт-те чему, пожалуйста.


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## Rosett

morzh said:


> "По жизни" даже для разговорного жанра - моветон. Не нужно учить иностранцев черт-те чему, пожалуйста.


Почему моветон?Так говорят.

Она неудачник.


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## Rosett

Wertis said:


> I agree that "финансово успешный" is probably the best and the most accurate translation.


Финансово состоявшийся?


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## Selyd

"Финансово успешный" - постоянно на уровне, постоянно удачлив.
"Финансово состоявшийся" - отмечаем выход на уровень, а там как повезет.
_В украинском:_
*Йому везе в ділах* - успешный
*loser - йому не везе в ділах*.
*"Iniciado por RhoKappa **

*
*I asked a few people in Ukraine what the equivalent translation is and, after having fully explained what a loser was, the answer I received was simply несчастлив"  Несчастлив - *это состояние далеко не финансовое и потому лучше, как приведено выше. *Невезучий *- в украинском звучит неблагозвучно и предпочтительно не используется.


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## morzh

rosett said:


> Почему моветон?Так говорят.
> 
> Она неудачник.




Обучение языку не заключается в том, чтобы показывать "как говорят". Показывают "как говорить правильно".
А уж потом, коли пристанет охота, можно показать и слэнг и прочее.

Если человек просил перевести слэнг, или передать плохой разговорный стиль - другое дело, но зачем же в качестве нормального перевода подсовывать то, "как говорят".


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## Wertis

RhoKappa said:


> I suppose that неудачник is gender specific to male.  What about for a female?  Would she be неудачница?



In one of the recent threads on a different topic I said that male gender words can be used to talk about women as well. That's quite common in formal situations and sometimes in conversational Russian. Female gender words seem to be more natural when speaking about women, but still they aren't always the best option. In your situation we can use either "неудачник" or "неудачница". This won't make any difference and the meaning will immeadiately become clear:

1) У нее опять полный провал в бизнесе. Наверное, она *неудачник* - She has suffered a complete failure in business again. Perhaps she is a loser

2) Она *неудачница* и всячески старается это скрыть - She is a loser and tries to conceal it in every possible way

I believe that both sentences are acceptable and #2 sounds a bit better to me. But it's the matter of personal preferences here rather than strict rules.

I think you understand that only "неудачник" can be used for men.


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## Wertis

Rosett said:


> Финансово состоявшийся?



I find this phrase acceptable as that with "успешный", but I suppose "успешный" is more vivid because "состоявшийся" can mean that a person has achieved what he has always been supposed to achieve or/and what other people occupying the same position usually achieve/have if they work hard and have talent. "Состоявшийся" may imply that he/she hasn't yet done anything really outstanding, but his business is stable and he doesn't experience any serious problems that could threaten his career. "Успешный" often tells us that the person has done something great which he can be proud of. "Успешный" makes us consider this person to be more talented, purposeful and persistent than many other people he works with. See an example:

1) Andres Iniesta won EURO-2008, FIFA World Cup 2010, the Champions League with Barcelona in 2009, two national championships, the World Club Championship in 2009 and many other valuable tropheys. In January he is very likely to be declared the best footballer in the world in 2010. Definitely he is "успешный". We can't use the word "состоявшийся" here because this is too weak a word and doesn't fully reflect all his dignities and skills.

2) Garry Kasparov is an "успешный" (successful) chressplayer for the same reasons. "Состоявшийся" is not the best word here.

3) An engineer or programmer can be "состоявшийся" if he knows his job very well, does all tasks on time, is responsible and attentive and wants to continue his career in this field. If he hasn't invented anything new or done something that might make people speak about him he is usually called "состоявшийся". "Успешный" isn't wrong but is unnecessarily strong.


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## carsten

morzh said:


> Обучение языку не заключается в том, чтобы показывать "как говорят". Показывают "как говорить правильно".
> А уж потом, коли пристанет охота, можно показать и слэнг и прочее.
> 
> Если человек просил перевести слэнг, или передать плохой разговорный стиль - другое дело, но зачем же в качестве нормального перевода подсовывать то, "как говорят".


Что не так с "по жизни"? С какой стати это сленг? Это старый оборот, встречающийся среди доброго количества классиков. Толстой, напр.: "Все мы плохи по жизни, слабы, но знаем, что хорошо, что дурно, и не лжем".
Пример того, как "правильно", вы уже показывали в примере с Паустовским. Видимо, правильно - это как говорит morzh.


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## WordOrder

carsten said:


> Что не так с "по жизни"?
> <...>
> Толстой, напр.: ...



Во времена Толстого, очевидно, эта фраза не носила такой мерзкий уголовно-гопнический оттенок, который она имеет сейчас.


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## morzh

wordorder said:


> Во времена Толстого, очевидно, эта фраза не носила такой мерзкий уголовно-гопнический оттенок, который она имеет сейчас.



Да, вот и я об этом. Когда-то и слово "дрочить" не имело сегодняшнего оттенка, что не значит, что "иди сюда, я тебя подрочу" будет воспринято так же, как и тогда.
Или фраза "ребенок дрочится" будет воспринята без ужаса.
А за фразу-пример из Даля "дрочить дитя по головке" можно и вовсе на учет педофилов попасть. :d


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## Wertis

It's really hard sometimes to distinguish between slang and non-slang. There are words that belong to only one group indisputably, but there are also many words that have borderline status. "Дрочить" isn't acceptable today - that's for sure. As regards "по жизни" I know that this word isn't used in public when you need to show how polite and educated you are. But also much depends on the context as usual:

"Да он по жизни пьет" - He always drinks. 

In this sentence "по жизни" is used as a slang expression and so this kind of phrase should be avoided unless you're with friends or close relatives who are nearly the same age as you (generally speaking, who're your peers)

"По жизни он добрый и порядочный человек" - In life he is a kind and honest person  

This phrase is much better and I see nothing bad in its usage. I see that there're better ways to say it in Russian, but the original sentence I've given contains no abusive or indecent words. We can improve sentence by a minor change:

"В обычной/повседневной жизни он добрый и порядочный человек" - In life he is a kind and honest person  

Now it's absolutely correct.

In one of my posts several days ago I wrote that there are no two words in English and Russian that mean absolutely the same and/or can be used in absolutely the same contexts. This rule works in all cases and doesn't have exceptions.  I also know that there is another rule, which is not so precise, but which undoubtedly works in Russian and probably in English. This rule has it that the same word or phrase can be used either positively or negatively. All depends on the context and very often on our intonation. Both rules seem obvious and clear, don't they? Yes, they do and they are so.  However if we remebered them more often than we really do there would be much fewer problems when deciding on whether some word or phrase is acceptable or not.


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## Wertis

carsten said:


> Что не так с "по жизни"? С какой стати это сленг? Это старый оборот, встречающийся среди доброго количества классиков. Толстой, напр.: "Все мы плохи по жизни, слабы, но знаем, что хорошо, что дурно, и не лжем".



Though I've already said about this issue in my previous post above, I want to add to this particular example that in "Все мы плохи по жизни, слабы, но знаем, что хорошо, что дурно, и не лжем" the expression "по жизни" is on the borderline between slang and normal words. I wouldn't probably put it here, but I can't say that it would be wrong if one chose it. This is all very subtle.


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