# Rocambolesco



## shamblesuk

E così ci racconta gli inizi _rocamboleschi_ della sua carriera imprenditoriale.

And so he told us about the early _xxx_ of his entepreneurial carrier.

Non la trovo sul dizionario.


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## Saoul

Have a good look, here, Lee! This will help, I hope.


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## Alberto77

Rocambolesco means something really lively, full of hazards, moves and similar things, also some risk...
hope to be helpful,
ciao
alb


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## shamblesuk

Dunque che sia _adventures/scrapes?_


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## Saoul

This is the idea. I'm pretti sure you can find somthing better that "incredible".

And so he told us about the incredible initial stages of his entepreneurial carrier.


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## primo_cerchio

Rocambolesco comes from french rocambolesque so you can find this interesting


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## TalcoTalquez

I think I read somewhere of a "high-octane chase" for "fuga rocambolesca", so maybe "high-octane" might be a suitable way to render "rocambolesco" too. But let's here a native first.


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## gabus

Alberto77 said:


> Rocambolesco means something really lively, full of hazards, moves and similar things, also some risk...
> hope to be helpful,
> ciao
> alb


how about  " real crazy! or just crazy


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## Odysseus54

Here I think 'swashbuckling beginnings' might work.


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## gabus

Odysseus54 said:


> Here I think 'swashbuckling beginnings' might work.



good heavens, no! swashbuckling has to do with pirates, and beginnings  has absolutely nothing to do with it! you are taking the mickey!??


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## Odysseus54

No, I am not kidding - and I will stick to my guns for now.

From the Cambridge on line : 

Swashbuckling : behaving* in a *brave* and *exciting* way, *especially* like a *fighter* in the past.


Try also googling "swashbuckling start" - not all pirates.  Lots of sports teams and some corporations.*


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## gabus

Odysseus54 said:


> No, I am not kidding - and I will stick to my guns for now.
> 
> From the Cambridge on line :
> 
> Swashbuckling : behaving* in a *brave* and *exciting* way, *especially* like a *fighter* in the past.
> 
> 
> Try also googling "swashbuckling start" - not all pirates. Lots of sports teams and some corporations.*



Yes, of course you have every right to stick to your convictions. *H*owever this is a forum and we can suggest what we think can be an improvement. *A*nd I honestly think your version can be improved. *H*ow objective can you be?


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## GavinW

Gabus, I have to say that I feel you are adopting a somewhat argumentative tone in your response(s) in this thread (when you ask, pointedly, "How objective can you be?"). This style of discussion is not encouraged here at WR. We all work on the assumption that everyone here is trying to help everyone else to arrive at translation solutions that work. In view of this, nobody (including Odysseus) ever claims that any suggestion is definitively the best or only possibility. All suggestions are made in good faith. We're all here to learn, and to get better. You are right to say you think his version "can be improved" (regardless of whether it, or any other suggestion, can actually be improved or not; it's your opinion that counts, your contribution). I suggest you go ahead and try to improve it, instead of stopping, and questioning his motives for making it.
If you feel my post is out of order, feel free to tell me (but probably in a PM-private message). If you also feel I have offended you for any reason, then I could even delete this post. But I don't think I'm going over the top on this occasion! ;-)


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## Einstein

I seem to remember seeing "rocambolesco" as a translation of "daring", as in a "daring escape from prison". Maybe also "daredevil". Not sure, though...


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## GavinW

Einstein said:


> I seem to remember seeing "rocambolesco" as a translation of "daring", as in a "daring escape from prison". Maybe also "daredevil". Not sure, though...



These are both helpful and interesting suggestions. Probably more actual context(s) would help us be more certain.


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## Pietruzzo

Maybe "swashbuckling" doesn't make sense, in this case, to English speakers but is the closest word to the italian "rocambolesco". In fact, we use "corsaro"(pirate) to call a bold and somewhat unscrupolous entrepreneur.(Rocambole was a foolhardy thief, by the way). Anyway, in my opinion, the word we need should be something along the lines of  "venturesome" . "reckless"...


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## King Crimson

Yes, translating "rocambolesco" is really a challenging task: probably there is no universal solution and the right translation will depend on the context (but certainly translating it as _incredible _or _fantastic _won't work).
However, since the term originates from French (as it was pointed out in post 8) I also looked up the FE forum and found this thread discussing the translation of "rocambolesque" (most of the discussion is in English for those not familiar with the beatiful language of our "cousins" from across the Alps). Much to my surprise (and dismay), they too were not able to come up with an accepted translation (which, I thought, could have worked also for us) but that thread, however, made for an interesting read, as it helped pin down additional elements that should be included in a prospective translation of "rocambolesco".
Einstein suggested "daring" (audace) which, in my opinion, would be almost perfect for the context he suggested (a "fuga rocambolesca" is almost a collocation in Italian) but wouldn't work for the OP. On the other hand, Ody's suggestion (swashbuckling) has a consistent (and apparently reliable) number of Google hits when paired both to "escape" (here) and "start" (here). I feel this translation works better for "escape" than "start" but I'll leave it to natives to comment on that.
In conclusion of this lenghty (and possibly boring) ramble I would only add that anyway, regardless of the context, I see "rocambolesco" as the story of something exciting, full of twists and turns, "all thrills and spills", as the last post of the thread in the FE forum mentions.


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## GavinW

So, if some kind of bold feat is involved, eg a "fuga rocambolesca" (eg prisoner from prison, using blankets, jumping over walls, crossing rooves, flying off in a helicopter etc) => "bold escape" (or "daring escape").
If it's just an exciting sequence of "stunts" (eg the classic movie car chase scene, like in Steve McQueen's "Bullitt", or say the opening sequence in the James Bond "Casino Royale" remake with Daniel Craig), in other words una "scena/sequenza/caccia rocambolesca", maybe => "nail-biting (scene/sequence/chase)". Maybe also "fast-moving", or "edge-of-your-seat (stuff)". Although this is straying into the domain of "mozzafiato".
Any good? Any other examples? There's bound to be more good ideas out there...


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## Einstein

Ah, so now I can confess that I was the translator of "daring" to "rocambolesco"!


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## King Crimson

GavinW said:


> So, if some kind of bold feat is involved, eg a "fuga rocambolesca" (eg prisoner from prison, using blankets, jumping over walls, crossing rooves, flying off in a helicopter etc) => "bold escape" (or "daring escape").
> If it's just an exciting sequence of "stunts" (eg the classic movie car chase scene, like in Steve McQueen's "Bullitt", or say the opening sequence in the James Bond "Casino Royale" remake with Daniel Craig), in other words una "scena/sequenza/caccia rocambolesca", maybe => "nail-biting (scene/sequence/chase)". Maybe also "fast-moving", or "edge-of-your-seat (stuff)". Although this is straying into the domain of "mozzafiato".
> Any good? Any other examples? There's bound to be more good ideas out there...



In all the contexts you are describing (action movies and the like) I think we can find a decent translation to "rocambolesco" and, in my opinion, "daring" (or "bold") is the closest, as it stresses one of the key elements implied in the concept of "rocambolesco". Other key elements for an action that deserves to be called "rocambolesca" are: it has to be (i) spectacular and (ii) characterized by an uncertain outcome (as I tried to point out in my previous post, with twist and turns and all that). Again, I think such concepts are, to some extent, embedded in "daring" or "bold".
However, if we move away from such familiar contexts (which use the recognized meaning of "rocambolesco", so to speak), the matter becomes blurry: for example, in the context of the OP, I would say that only the element of uncertainty is retained, I understand it as a story where this guy is successful now, but he experienced many ups and downs early in his career. "Rocambolesco" here isn't necessarily implying boldness and/or spectacularity (it may or may not be there).
However, that's my 2c, others may view an _inizio rocambolesco _as encompassing those other key elements as well.


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## Odysseus54

In 'rocambolesco' there is an element of exaggerated, 'larger-than-life' drama.  Not only subjective daring, but also surrounding events that are weird and out of the ordinary.

"Daring escape" is almost a fixed expression, but it does work fairly well.

But the OP was about the 'inizi rocamboleschi' of a business enterprise.  I don't think that daring would work there.

Perhaps "wildly adventurous beginnings" , or maybe "weird and dramatic beginnings".


On 'swashbuckling', I would greatly appreciate a well-argumented critique.  I am afraid that comments like "Are you taking the Mickey ??" do not provide a lot of useful content and are not the best introduction for a 16-post member.

I can start by saying that my college educated American wife does not even know what 'swashbuckling' means. Which is not a great start.  On the other hand, I can point to my google hits.

Someone shoot me down, please.


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## GavinW

Odysseus54 said:


> Someone shoot me down, please.



Since you ask, I'm only too happy to oblige! ;-)
Swashbuckling refers to the style in which you do something. Accordingly, it refers to an intention to do something in a certain way (ie a spectacular, exaggerated way, with huge self-confidence, in an attempt to achieve some kind of glory or reputation for bravery or even heroism, a devil-may-care attitude - just to give a short and incomplete definition). However, as we immediately see, there is a natural limit to the range of things that you can do in a "swashbuckling" way.

By contrast, the OP's context refers to a situation -- not someone's approach to a given situation (a crucial distinction) -- that is inherently difficult, and in which there are many ups and downs (as mentioned earlier). In other words, the "beginnings" were "oggettivamente difficili", with an element of chance, and uncertainty over the outcome. 

All these considerations mean "swashbuckling" is entirely inappropriate as a translation for the OP's context (sorry, Ody). I think we're beginning to understand just how much the meaning (or the translation, at least) of this adjective can vary, depending on the connotations of the context. For the OP's usage, I might suggest something like "hairy" (but that's informal, and probably BrE) or "dicey", "wobbly" etc (registro permettendo).

Invece, per l'uso più "classico" dell'aggettivo (an individual event, rather than a process that took place over a period of time, eg a prison escape, car chase etc), I now think "dramatic" might be even better than a few other suggestions made earlier. Which is interesting, because it's so simple and apparently so obvious. What's even more interesting is that if we had an English sentence with "dramatic car chase" or "a dramatic escape from jail", we probably wouldn't say "drammatico" (showing just how much of a false friend this adjective is). We would probably say "spettacolare" or, yes, "rocambolesco", surely.


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## Odysseus54

Very clear, Gavin. Thanks.


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## chipulukusu

I wonder if _rollercoasting_ could be somehow used for _rocambolesco..._ I sometimes distractely listen to people talking about _rollercoaster movies_ but I still have to understand if these are movies full of action and suspence or stricltly movies about a rollercoaster, like the famous _Rollercoaster_​ movie of the seventies.


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## JD75

I know it's been a long time since this thread was opened, but I am also dealing with translating the word "*rocambolesco*" at the moment. I've read through this thread and the one to the French-English forum discussion of the French equivalent posted as a link above. I have no perfect solution but, for posterity, I wanted to suggest the adjective I've decided upon, which is "*madcap*". My dictionary defines "*madcap*" as: 1) *amusingly eccentric *(e.g. a surreal, madcap novel) or 2) *done or thought up without considering the consequences; crazy or reckless *(e.g. some madcap money-making scheme). I think that, for some instances of "rocambolesco", that translation could do quite nicely! Just saying... Cheers!


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## johngiovanni

This is an interesting discussion.  As I read it, from "ups and downs" in an earlier post, I was thinking "rollercoaster", only to find that chipulusku came up with that in post 26.  I would be tempted to combine "madcap" in JD75's post with "rollercoaster ride" - "madcap rollercoaster ride".  (Not original - as you will see if you do a search).


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## King Crimson

And apparently this not-so-common term still draws the attention of non-native speakers (here at #2).


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## sorry66

I think 'madcap', 'dramatic', 'extraordinary' and 'amazing' would work for the OP and also for the idea of 'escape'.
'Fantastic' and 'fabulous' could be misconstrued because of modern nuances.

'Swashbuckling' is  probably strictly the closest to 'rocambolesco' but is only used in a limited context  - one with sword-wielding action heroes like in 'a tale of derring-do!'

And,  in fact, you could just say 'rocambolesque'!

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rocambolesque


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## Einstein

sorry66 said:


> And,  in fact, you could just say 'rocambolesque'!
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rocambolesque


You could, but I wouldn't! Interesting to see that it exists, but I wonder how many people have ever seen this word in English. I certainly haven't.
OK, I think your suggestion wasn't really serious...


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## Paulfromitaly

I think we need to focus on the meaning of rocambolesco



> *rocambolésco* agg. (pl. m. -_chi_). – Di Rocambole ‹_rokãbòl_›, proprio o degno di Rocambole,* l’audace e spregiudicato* protagonista dei romanzi d’appendice avventurosi dello scrittore francese P.-A. Ponson du Terrail (sec. 19°): _avventure_, _imprese_, _gesta r_.; _una fuga_, _un’evasione rocambolesca_. Il nome del personaggio è prob. tratto dal sost. _rocambole_ (v. la voce prec.), con riferimento al carattere piccante delle sue avventure.




Any translation that is different from daring, adventurous, incredible or reckless would make sense only if in the source text the word rocambolesco is incorrectly used and therefore we translate the sense of the whole sentence rather than of the single word.


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## sorry66

I don't think 'reckless' is the right word - daring, adventurous, incredible, yes. Maybe you could also say 'rip-roaring'!

Although the word *spregiudicato *seems to change the game a little. 'Devil-may-care'?

@Einstein Yes, I wasn't seriously suggesting that you use it unless you want to be seriously pretentious.


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