# declarara al centro histórico patrimonio de la humanidad



## gotitadeleche

Please help me with the following statement, especially the underlined part. I have attempted to translate it below, but it sounds awkward to me. Does anyone have a better solution?

En 1991, el Patronato de Lima, una organización no gubernamental, logró que la UNESCO declarara al centro histórico patrimonio de la humanidad, por la gran concentración de tesoros históricos y artísticos.

In 1991, the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, got UNESCO to declare the historic downtown district a heritage for humanity, because of its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.

Thank you!!!


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## Javomtz

creo que lo hiciste muy bien!!! yo no le cambiaria nada!!!!!


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## gotitadeleche

Javomtz said:
			
		

> creo que lo hiciste muy bien!!! yo no le cambiaria nada!!!!!



Thank you  .


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## lapachis8

A ver si te late...

"In 1999 world heritage site the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, achieved world heritage status for Lima´s historic downtown district due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures."


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## Misao

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> Please help me with the following statement, especially the underlined part. I have attempted to translate it below, but it sounds awkward to me. Does anyone have a better solution?
> 
> En 1991, el Patronato de Lima, una organización no gubernamental, logró que la UNESCO declarara al centro histórico patrimonio de la humanidad, por la gran concentración de tesoros históricos y artísticos.
> 
> In 1991, the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, got UNESCO to declare the historic downtown district a heritage for humanity, because of its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.
> 
> Thank you!!!


 
It sounds good to me too...I have been trying to make another version, but I think yours is perfect. By the way, Patronato de Lima, may be translated as Lima Patronage, I think...and you can change "got" by "achieved" ... or "because of" by "due to"...

In 1991 the Lima Patronage, a nongovernamental organitation, achieved the UNESCO to declare te historic downtown district a heritage for humanity due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.

Cheers!


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## lapachis8

Perdçon, perdón:

In 1999, the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, achieved the world heritage status for Lima´s historic downtown district due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures."


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## lapachis8

non governmental organization / cuidado


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## lafert

el Patronato de Lima 
is an organization that cares for heritage sites, like Historic Downtown Lima


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## lapachis8

non-governmental-organization
se em olvidaron los hyphens, perdón de nuevo.


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## lafert

En 1991, el Patronato de Lima, una organización no gubernamental, logró que la UNESCO declarara al centro histórico patrimonio de la humanidad, por la gran concentración de tesoros históricos y artísticos.

In 1991, the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, got UNESCO to declare the historic downtown district a heritage for humanity, because of its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.

In ... Lima´s Board of Protection(?) a non ... governamental organization, helped through the UNESCO to declare the Historic Downtown District Heritage of the World...


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## gotitadeleche

Misao said:
			
		

> It sounds good to me too...I have been trying to make another version, but I think yours is perfect. By the way, Patronato de Lima, may be translated as Lima Patronage, I think...and you can change "got" by "achieved" ... or "because of" by "due to"...
> 
> In 1991 the Lima Patronage, a nongovernamental organitation, achieved the UNESCO to declare te historic downtown district a heritage for humanity due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.
> 
> Cheers!



You can´t use achieved in this way, you can´t achieve someone/something (la UNESCO) to do something. That was part of my difficulty. I would prefer not to use the word "got", but you can´t achieve someone/something to do something. Hmmm...let me think...maybe "achieved having UNESCO declare the historic downtown district a heritage..." I´m still not really satisfied. 

Thank you for your help!!


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## gotitadeleche

lapachis8 said:
			
		

> Perdçon, perdón:
> 
> In 1999, the Patronato de Lima (patronage association of Lima?), a nongovernamental organization, achieved the world heritage status for Lima´s historic downtown district due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures."



This sounds good, but it leaves out the part that UNESCO played. I like world heritage better than heritage for humanity.

Thanks for your help!!


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## gotitadeleche

lapachis8 said:
			
		

> non governmental organization / cuidado



Thanks for catching my spelling boo-boo!!!


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## gotitadeleche

lapachis8 said:
			
		

> non-governmental-organization
> se em olvidaron los hyphens, perdón de nuevo.



Lapachis8, I don´t think it requires hyphens. According to my dictionary, the prefix "non" becomes part of the word and is not hyphenated. Governmental and organization I think would only have to be hyphenated if used as an adjective.


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## gotitadeleche

lafert said:
			
		

> el Patronato de Lima
> is an organization that cares for heritage sites, like Historic Downtown Lima



Perhaps then I should say "the Lima Patronage Society" or "the Patronage Society of Lima"? Like we have here in my city the Historical Society... Would I be getting too far away from the meaning to call it the Lima Historical Society??


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## lafert

Wait.  You have an Historical Society and the Patronato, also?  Or there are one and the same?


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## gotitadeleche

lafert said:
			
		

> Wait.  You have an Historical Society and the Patronato, also?  Or there are one and the same?



In my city we just have a Historical Society that seems to serve the same function as the Patronato de Lima. That´s why I was wondering if I could translate it as Historical Society of Lima, but I know patronato doesn´t equal historical, so I wonder if it is too big of a leap to make.


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## lafert

OK. The problem I see is that the Patronato might get offended by calling them the same way.

What about the Protection Society? and in parenthesis the name in spanish?


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## lapachis8

"Lapachis8, I don´t think it requires hyphens. According to my dictionary, the prefix "non" becomes part of the word and is not hyphenated. Governmental and organization I think would only have to be hyphenated *if used as an adjective*."
 
*(thanks!!!!)*
 
This sounds good, but it leaves out the part that UNESCO played. I like world heritage better than heritage for humanity. 
*(Try the UNESCO website, they use the term “world heritage site” in English for “patrimonio de la humanidad”)
*


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## apalacios

hola creo que se escucharia mejor asi

"...logro que UNESCO declarara el distrito central historico como un patrimonio de la humanidad..."

esta diciendo que el distrito es asi


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## lafert

Lapachis8 and gotita

site es sitio, like Downtown Lima District, las Pirámides de Egipto, etc.
but the Patonato?
How can it be translated? that is not Historical Society, because there exists one already?


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## lafert

Could it be "Patronato de Lima" and in parenthesis a protection society, or something of the sort that defines its functions?
Protection Board? Association?
different than Historical Society, which protects, also, the Heritage.


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## Misao

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> You can´t use achieved in this way, you can´t achieve someone/something (la UNESCO) to do something. That was part of my difficulty. I would prefer not to use the word "got", but you can´t achieve someone/something to do something. Hmmm...let me think...maybe "achieved having UNESCO declare the historic downtown district a heritage..." I´m still not really satisfied.
> 
> Thank you for your help!!


 
Yes I thought of it afterwards, during my dinner...so finally I would say:

The Patronage of LIme achieved in 1991 that UNESCO declared the historic downtown district a...

What do you think?


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## Misao

¿Y qué te parece así?

Due to the Patronage of Lime, a nongovernmental organization, in 1991 UNESCO declared the historical downtown as world Heritage, for here concentrates a great ammount of historical and artistic treasures.

O:

Thanks to the Patronage of Lime, a nongovernmental organization, in 1991 the historical downtown was declared World Heritage by UNESCO, due to its large historical and artistic treasures.


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## lafert

_Thanks to the Patronage of Lime, a nongovernmental organization, in 1991 the historical downtown was declared World Heritage by UNESCO, due to its large historical and artistic treasures._ 

Your last one sounds better to me, or:

In 1991 ...a nongovernmamental organization, helped through the UNESCO to declare the Historic Downtown District Heritage of the World...


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## Soy Yo

lapachis8 said:
			
		

> "Lapachis8, I don´t think it requires hyphens. According to my dictionary, the prefix "non" becomes part of the word and is not hyphenated. Governmental and organization I think would only have to be hyphenated *if used as an adjective*."
> 
> *(thanks!!!!)*
> 
> This sounds good, but it leaves out the part that UNESCO played. I like world heritage better than heritage for humanity.
> *(Try the UNESCO website, they use the term “world heritage site” in English for “patrimonio de la humanidad”)*


 
Yep...this is the English term for UNESCO's designation "World Heritage Site"...


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## gotitadeleche

OK, how about this?

In 1991, at the instigation of the Patronato de Lima, a nongovernmental organization that supports historical preservation, UNESCO declared the historic downtown district to be a world heritage site, due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.


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## flightgoddess

same as the post below, but it is capitalized "World Heratige Site".


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## Misao

"Instigation" me suena a "agobiar"...Me da la sensación de que la UNESCO declaró el sitio patrimonio de la humanidad porque el Patronato de Lima era un pesado...

He aquí solo mi humilde opinión...


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## Soy Yo

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> OK, how about this?
> 
> In 1991, at the instigation of the Patronato de Lima, a nongovernmental organization that supports historical preservation, UNESCO declared the historic downtown district to be a world heritage site, due to its large concentration of historic and artistic treasures.


 
Thanks, Gotita....I'm suggesting one teeny-tiny change.  I was getting worried about the Patronage of Lime. ("to be" seems unnecessary to me)


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## Soy Yo

Misao said:
			
		

> "Instigation" me suena a "agobiar"...Me da la sensación de que la UNESCO declaró el sitio patrimonio de la humanidad porque el Patronato de Lima era un pesado...
> 
> He aquí solo mi humilde opinión...


 
Yes..instigation does sound a bit sinister, come to think of it.

How about "due to the efforts of" or "at the request of"


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## gotitadeleche

Hummm...I don't see instigate as necessarily being sinister. I am using it in this sense (from WordReference): 

 prompt, inspire,  
  serve as the inciting cause of; "She prompted me to call my relatives"

Perhaps "at the prompting of the Patronato de Lima..."


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## Misao

Ok, my last attempt, following the suggesitons of Soy yo:

At the  request of the Patronage of Lime, a nongovernmental organization, the historical downtown was declared World Heritage Site in 1991 by UNESCO, since a large historical and artistic treasures concentrate there.


Cheers!


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## gotitadeleche

Soy Yo said:
			
		

> Thanks, Jacinta... I'm suggesting one teeny-tiny change.  I was getting worried about the Patronage of Lime.  ("to be" seems unnecessary to me)



Thanks Soy Yo, I agree.


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## gotitadeleche

Misao said:
			
		

> Ok, my last attempt, following the suggesitons of Soy yo:
> 
> At the  request of the Patronage of Lime, a nongovernmental organization, the historical downtown was declared World Heritage Site in 1991 by UNESCO, since a large historical and artistic treasures concentrate there.
> 
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks Misao!!!


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## gotitadeleche

lafert said:
			
		

> Lapachis8 and gotita
> 
> site es sitio, like Downtown Lima District, las Pirámides de Egipto, etc.
> but the Patonato?
> How can it be translated? that is not Historical Society, because there exists one already?



lafert, I don't understand your message.  Are you saying that a Historical Society already exists in Lima in addition to the Patronato?


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## Soy Yo

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> Hummm...I don't see instigate as necessarily being sinister. I am using it in this sense (from WordReference):
> 
> prompt, inspire,
> serve as the inciting cause of; "She prompted me to call my relatives"
> 
> Perhaps "at the prompting of the Patronato de Lima..."


 
Webster's doesn't make it sound sinister either (except that it means "incite" as well as goad, urge, provoke). For some reason though, I think of some kind of plot when I hear someone is instigating something...or that there is an "ulterior motive."


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## lafert

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> lafert, I don't understand your message. Are you saying that a Historical Society already exists in Lima in addition to the Patronato?


 
Gotita, yes, that´s what i understood from your messages
de ahí el problema de encontrarle traducción a Patronato, que entiendo es una sociedad que protege la Historia, porque ya hay en Lima una Sociedad Histórica. 
O no es así?
De no serlo, mejor.  Puedes entonces traducir Patronato como Historical Society. Pero si ya hay una Sociedad Histórica, entonces no es buena idea traducir Patronato, con el mismo nombre.
Se entiende?


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## lafert

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> Perhaps then I should say "the Lima Patronage Society" or "the Patronage Society of Lima"? Like we have here in my city the Historical Society... Would I be getting too far away from the meaning to call it the Lima Historical Society??


 
This message I mean.
I still have problems understanding.
Hay un Patronato, right?
y pregunto, también hay una Sociedad Histórica?

Si no hubiera, you can translate Patronato ta ta, como Historical Protection Society of Lima.  Because that´s what it does, right?
To tell you the truth, I never heard something like _Patronage Society_ in English.


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## Mr. Chaz

How about "Heritage Society of Lima"?...it sounds all right but may not imply what you want it to. It also steers you away from 'Historical."

Here is the webpage description of the Strasburg (Pennsylvania) Heritage Society's mission:

The Strasburg Heritage Society utilizes membership dues and monetary donations to meet the demands of our mission. We are actively seeking corporate donations, government grants, and funding for our restoration projects.


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## gotitadeleche

lafert said:
			
		

> Gotita, yes, that´s what i understood from your messages
> de ahí el problema de encontrarle traducción a Patronato, que entiendo es una sociedad que protege la Historia, porque ya hay en Lima una Sociedad Histórica.
> O no es así?
> De no serlo, mejor.  Puedes entonces traducir Patronato como Historical Society. Pero si ya hay una Sociedad Histórica, entonces no es buena idea traducir Patronato, con el mismo nombre.
> Se entiende?






> This message I mean.
> I still have problems understanding.
> Hay un Patronato, right?
> y pregunto, también hay una Sociedad Histórica?
> 
> Si no hubiera, you can translate Patronato ta ta, como Historical Protection Society of Lima. Because that´s what it does, right?
> To tell you the truth, I never heard something like Patronage Society in English.



Sorry lafert, I had you totally confused. I don´t know if Lima, Peru has an organization called Historical Society or not. The article I am trying to translate, that the sentence comes from, refers to the Patronato de Lima. The city I live in in Texas has a Historical Society that has the same function that the Patronato in Lima has. Like you said, Patronage Society in English sounds odd and I wasn´t sure that it would be understood if I translated it as Patronage Society of Lima. That is why I wondered if I could say Historical Society of Lima, which would be understood better here in the States. I like your option of Historical Protection Society. Thanks for your help.


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## gotitadeleche

Mr. Chaz said:
			
		

> How about "Heritage Society of Lima"?...it sounds all right but may not imply what you want it to. It also steers you away from 'Historical."
> 
> Here is the webpage description of the Strasburg (Pennsylvania) Heritage Society's mission:
> 
> The Strasburg Heritage Society utilizes membership dues and monetary donations to meet the demands of our mission. We are actively seeking corporate donations, government grants, and funding for our restoration projects.



Chaz, I like your option of Heritage Society. It is much closer to the meaning of Patronato. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Misao

gotita, I finally decided to google the web and I found some parallel texts, you may find helpful to get the final translation for "Patronato de Lima".

Center for Latinamerican Studies
STREET VENDORS IN THE HISTORIC CENTRE OF LIMA:
Diary

I just found two pages where "Patronato de Lima" was translated as "Patronage of Lima". 
In my opinion, I wouldn't translate the name, since it belongs to an organization. Just an example: I wouldn't translate "Greenpeace" by "paz verde"; it is Greenpeace, a NGO, as the  Patronato of  Lima.

Cheers!


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## gotitadeleche

Misao said:
			
		

> gotita, I finally decided to google the web and I found some parallel texts, you may find helpful to get the final translation for "Patronato de Lima".
> 
> Center for Latinamerican Studies
> STREET VENDORS IN THE HISTORIC CENTRE OF LIMA:
> Diary
> 
> I just found two pages where "Patronato de Lima" was translated as "Patronage of Lima".
> In my opinion, I wouldn't translate the name, since it belongs to an organization. Just an example: I wouldn't translate "Greenpeace" by "paz verde"; it is Greenpeace, a NGO, as the  Patronato of  Lima.
> 
> 
> Cheers!



Thank you Misao, the articles are a big help.


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## Papalote

Hola,

Generalmente, los nombres propios de instituciones, institutos,  o universidades, etc. no se traducen, sólo cuando ya se les conoce con el nombre traducido.

Por mi parte, y visto la problematica que ha causado traducir Patronato de Lima, lo dejarìa tal cual. 

Muchas veces, los traductores tratamos de dar demasiadas explicaciones a nuestros lectores, pensando que si no les explicamos todo, si no compartimos toda la informaciòn que nosotros mismos hemos descubierto durante nuestra búsqueda terminológica, entonces el pobre lector no comprenderá. Pero la realidad es que nuestro lector es suficientemente inteligente para leer ¨entre líneas¨ y no necesitamos dar tanta explicación . 

Hasta *

P


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## gotitadeleche

Thank you Papalote for your suggestion. I think I will leave it as Patronato de Lima as you suggest.


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## jugen

Here is a UNESCO site. I propose "a World Heritage Site" for "un patrimonio de la humanidad".
Salu2,
jugen


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