# Invitation for you



## indranii

Hello:

I do not want to be wrong with this translation. In Latin culture, when a man invites a lady, that means tha he would pay for everything. But now I am trying to translate about an invitation and this is the context: An American man wants to meet a Latin lady and he told her that he had an invitation for her and that he was excited. Then, in his next email he said that "I will split the cost of you flying to the USA". If he meant that she had to pay part of the trip, this is not an invitation. Is that polite for an American man? Could you help me with the right interpretation, culturally speaking? 

Thanks for your comments.


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## Paulfromitaly

It seems like he's willing to pay just the half of your flight fare..


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Hey, vecina!

What you are talking about is, perhaps, one of the most common cultural differences I have stumbled with.

Here, as you know (and you mention in your post), when you get an invitation, you don't pay. Period. But in other cultures, an invitation just means you are being asked to do something or go somewhere with the one who's inviting you. That means you are supposed to cover your own expenses.

Here in Venezuela, we have the expression: "Vamos a tal parte (o a comer, or whatever), pero _*a la Americana*_" (literally, in the American way), that is, "cada uno paga lo suyo".

There are exceptions, as for example, "Let's go to xxx restaurant. This one's on me". Or when a teenager asks a girl out, say, to the movies. If he is polite, he will offer to pay for the tickets/popcorns/both.

This doesn't only happen in the US... I remember a friend who had a quite embarrassing situation on her birthday abroad, since she wasn't aware of who should get the check (if you're hungry for details, let me know  ). And I found myself in an uncomfortable situation with a French family once, for the same reason.

So I guess it just depends on the guy, on the circumstances, and on the amount in the check/bill 

Hope it helps!


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## indranii

Thanis,Venezuelan Sweetie: And yes! I am hungry for details.


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## danielfranco

Oh, there are so many unspoken rules about who gets the check!
With colleagues, unless someone specifies we're all splitting the bill, then when the bill arrives we all make a big show of trying to lay a hand on it. But of course the most junior of all colleagues "wins" this grab-assing and it is his privilege and pleasure to pay for all of us.
And when dating more seriously than, say, high-school level, the guy is most certainly expected to pay for it all, unless the lady specifically says "it's my treat". [If she says so, then you know it's on!]
So all this splitting the bill seems to me an attempt at slowing things down and seeing how it goes first before doing any sudden movements. Kind of like sticking your toes in the water to test how cold it is before actually jumping in, you know?
Anyway, consider that my "dating" experience and anything related to "who pays the bill and what the heck does it mean, anyway?" is fifteen years out of date:
Ever since I got married there is no question who pays for _everything_, even when I'm the one being invited out.





She does.


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## indranii

Thanks Daniel, I got your interpretation. I would like to read also the comments of American men. We are learning everyday!


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## Nunty

From the original post, I wonder if this isn't the official "invitation" needed from an American citizen to bring a foreign national to live there, rather than a invitation like on a date.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

indranii said:


> Thanis,Venezuelan Sweetie: And yes! I am hungry for details.


 
Alrighty, then! My friend (a girl from the US) was somewhere in Europe (I think it was France or Italy, I can't remember now). She happened to be on her birthday one night and she, alone as she was, went out to have a drink or something. 

While she was having her drink, she met some guys she had seen a time or two, and said she was on her birthday. One of them (I'm almost sure he was French  ) said out loud, almost shouting: "Then it's time to celebrate!!", and they all started drinking together, cherishing "her moment".

She was pleasantly surprised by that sudden "cheerness", acceptation and attention from those guys, being barely more than strangers, and well... you know, she was American, they were European... I think you get what I mean.

The real surprise came, of course, when the check was brought... Yes, as you might have guessed by now, SHE was expected to get the drinks, since the celebration was about HER...  What a contrast, eh indranii? I mean, for us Latin Americans...  



danielfranco said:


> Oh, there are so many unspoken rules about who gets the check!


 
Well, that's so true!



> So all this splitting the bill seems to me an attempt at slowing things down and seeing how it goes first before doing any sudden movements. Kind of like sticking your toes in the water to test how cold it is before actually jumping in, you know?


 
Right. I'm engaged, and my fiance and I have been friends for years. Back to the days when we were "just friends", we would always split the bill. 

By the time we started dating, we used to have silly fights over who would pay, both insisting "let ME pay", "no no no, let ME pay!"

Now we're about to get married, he is constantly paying for everything -which he does as a 'treat' or compliment, but I hate it.

However, there's this little voice ringing in my ear, saying one of these days, I'll probably end up relating to Daniel's wife.


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## indranii

Good comments. One thing is to be friends and the other is to be dating! Cultural differences. For Latin people, gender makes the difference. Men always pay when dating!


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## Paulfromitaly

indranii said:


> Good comments. One thing is to be friends and the other is to be dating! Cultural differences. For Latin people, gender makes the difference. Men always pay when dating!



It's funny though: women want the right to equality with men (and that's more than right and well-deserved) unless when it's about splitting the bills..


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## indranii

Splitting the bills as husband and wife is completely different. It is a matter of home budget. But when dating, it is a matter of courtesy and gentleman-lady.


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## Mei

Hi all there,

It's a little bit confusing because in spanish is not the same "invitar" that "convidar" and we don't use it correctly, we always use "invitar" and we leave the "convidar" for a wedding.

"Invitar" (invite) means that I want you to come with me but I just will pay what I take and "convidar" means that I will pay your part too. So when you go to a wedding the bride and groom "convidan" to all the family and friends they don't "invitan" you.

This doesn't happen when you talk in English, right? Do you use "invite"  in both cases?

Cheers

Mei


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## Siberia

I'm afraid to upset your way of thinking but in the UK when one is asked out it's not so uncommon to hear: "Great! Who's paying?" Unfortunately people can get so drunk that ".......knows" who is paying!!!
On a brighter note if my friends invited me to their houses in the US or Australia it would be obvious for me that I would be paying my own flight over. If it were someone I had met on a chat line more rightly so, why should I expect him/her to pay for my flight when I'm already being offered hospitality? The fact that someone pays might seem a bit ambiguous - what is he/she after, at least it is in my part of the world.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Paulfromitaly said:


> It's funny though: women want the right to equality with men (and that's more than right and well-deserved) unless when it's about splitting the bills..


 
Good point, Pablito!  You know, I feel quite uncomfortable when a man is always paying the bill. Maybe it is due to that saying: "there is no such thing as a free lunch"...  

Indranii, you are so right about the cultural differences. However, we should also take into account the _personality_ differences. I remember this French guy, inviting me to go give it a try to his country, a while back. He was to pay for the air fare, the "shelter", the meals... everything! 

I, being the restless and tough-headed goat I am, didn't take it and said, plain and simple, that I would go, only if my expenses would be MY expenses. I know, not quite typical from a Latin American female, but I just couldn't go around, economically clinging to the guy!

So, according to what I have seen, heard and experienced, and considering whatever cultural prejudices, seems like both of us (the hospitable Frenchie & me) were "going against the current" (or would you rather say, "swimming upstream"?  )

Then, there are other things to consider, besides cultural differences...


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## Mei

Siberia said:


> I'm afraid to upset your way of thinking but in the UK when one is asked out it's not so uncommon to hear: "Great! Who's paying?" Unfortunately people can get so drunk that ".......knows" who is paying!!!
> On a brighter note if my friends invited me to their houses in the US or Australia it would be obvious for me that I would be paying my own flight over. If it were someone I had met on a chat line more rightly so, why should I expect him/her to pay for my flight when I'm already being offered hospitality? The fact that someone pays might seem a bit ambiguous - what is he/she after, at least it is in my part of the world.



Hi,

I agree with you, why should they (friends of US or where else) pay you the ticket? 

Mei


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## Paulfromitaly

Siberia said:


> The fact that someone pays might seem a bit ambiguous - what is he/she after, at least it is in my part of the world.



I'd say more than abiguous..
I really advice that "latin lady" to make things clear before jumping on a flight to US.


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## AngelEyes

Well, if it were MY birthday and they spent the evening "helping" me celebrate, and then they expected ME to pay for it, I'd be angry. I'd certainly pay for it, if it had been THEIRS.

I hate cheap men who pick over every little detail and add up all the columns. Besides, I like being generous and it comes naturally to me. I want to be getting that right back at me. I hate keeping tabs and scores. It leaves me cold.

As my hero, Blanche Devereaux, once said:
"I don't want to be treated like a man...I want to be treated *better* than a man."

You can spend as much money on me as you want, and hold the door open for me, and help me on with my coat. You won't get any complaints from me.

I don't believe that attitude is unique to any one country. I think it's a personal thing for each individual.

AngelEyes


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## ElaineG

> Well, if it were MY birthday and they spent the evening "helping" me celebrate, and then they expected ME to pay for it, I'd be angry. I'd certainly pay for it, if it had been THEIRS.


 
Well, except that in Italy, at least Sicily where I lived, the cultural custom is that the birthday person treats their friends to dinner/drinks/gelato whatever it is.  It took some getting used to for me as the custom here is to organize a get-together and have everyone split the costs _except_ the birthday person.  There it's the exact opposite.

No use getting angry -- it's just a cultural difference.



> With colleagues, unless someone specifies we're all splitting the bill, then when the bill arrives we all make a big show of trying to lay a hand on it. But of course the most junior of all colleagues "wins" this grab-assing and it is his privilege and pleasure to pay for all of us.


 
That's interesting.  Among professionals in New York City, the most senior colleague pays. Always.  There would be something uncouth about an underling treating a superior.

As for dating, I'm sure I've expressed this in other threads -- but there are as many arrangements are there are people, these days.  But a good rule of thumb for anyone (female or male) is do not expect to get a lot of things paid for without giving something in return.  Therefore, if you have yet to make up your mind how you feel about someone, it is often a good idea to insist on splitting the check.


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## AngelEyes

Elaine,

Thanks for the heads up...I didn't know that! They should take a lesson from the Americans. When I take my girlfriends out on their birthday, I always pick up the check and also buy them a present. Plus, I take them wherever it is THEY wish to go.

But they can open their own door.  

Everyone's different, aren't they?

AngelEyes


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## cute angel

thanks
for the nice subject


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

ElaineG said:


> Well, except that in Italy, at least Sicily where I lived, the cultural custom is that the birthday person treats their friends to dinner/drinks/gelato whatever it is. It took some getting used to for me as the custom here is to organize a get-together and have everyone split the costs _except_ the birthday person. There it's the exact opposite.
> 
> No use getting angry -- it's just a cultural difference.


 
Oh, so then my friend was in Italy!  Thanks, Elaine, I had forgotten that...




> That's interesting. Among professionals in New York City, the most senior colleague pays. Always. There would be something uncouth about an underling treating a superior.


 
Yeah, it's the same in here: the "boss" pays.  He/she is supposed to be better paid, anyway... 



> As for dating, I'm sure I've expressed this in other threads -- but there are as many arrangements are there are people, these days. But a good rule of thumb for anyone (female or male) is do not expect to get a lot of things paid for without giving something in return. Therefore, if you have yet to make up your mind how you feel about someone, it is often a good idea to insist on splitting the check


 
I couldn't agree more...

In other words, indranii, careful what your latin female friend (  ) expects from her friend from the US, but most importantly, what her friend from the US is expecting.

Saludos, vecina!


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## ireney

ElaineG said:


> Well, except that in Italy, at least Sicily where I lived, the cultural custom is that the birthday person treats their friends to dinner/drinks/gelato whatever it is.  It took some getting used to for me as the custom here is to organize a get-together and have everyone split the costs _except_ the birthday person.  There it's the exact opposite.
> 
> No use getting angry -- it's just a cultural difference.



Same here too with the distinct difference that this applies only when the person is inviting the others. If the others decide to have a celebration then it's them that pay (a sort of impromptu "gift").

When inviting someone for drinks, coffee, dinner, the one that issues the invite is supposed to pay (up to a point) unless we're talking about friends aranging to go out obviously.

When inviting friends to come and visit they foot the bill for travelling and you for pretty much everything else


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## jinti

Well, if I were expected to pay the travelling expenses of anybody I invited to New York, I'd never be able to invite anyone at all.

I'm happy to provide a place to sleep, meals, advice on getting good deals, and some local transportation, but picking up the tab for their airfare, too? And geez, what if they were a family of 4?

Actually, I think the guy was being nice by offering to split the airfare. His pockets might not be so deep either, you know, yet he is willing to pay half her ticket. And she's not so "indebted" (wink, wink) to him this way. 

He also might want a little protection for himself, that he's not just being taken advantage of for a free vacation abroad.


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## fiorilù

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Hey, vecina!
> 
> What you are talking about is, perhaps, one of the most common cultural differences I have stumbled with.
> 
> Here, as you know (and you mention in your post), when you get an invitation, you don't pay. Period. But in other cultures, an invitation just means you are being asked to do something or go somewhere with the one who's inviting you. That means you are supposed to cover your own expenses.
> 
> Here in Venezuela, we have the expression: "Vamos a tal parte (o a comer, or whatever), pero _*a la Americana*_" (literally, in the American way), that is, "cada uno paga lo suyo".
> 
> There are exceptions, as for example, "Let's go to xxx restaurant. This one's on me". Or when a teenager asks a girl out, say, to the movies. If he is polite, he will offer to pay for the tickets/popcorns/both.
> 
> This doesn't only happen in the US... I remember a friend who had a quite embarrassing situation on her birthday abroad, since she wasn't aware of who should get the check (if you're hungry for details, let me know  ). And I found myself in an uncomfortable situation with a French family once, for the same reason.
> 
> So I guess it just depends on the guy, on the circumstances, and on the amount in the check/bill
> 
> Hope it helps!


 

By the way in Italy we say "fare alla Romana" (you say all'Americana in your country!) cada uno paga los suyo...


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## dificilima

AngelEyes said:


> Well, if it were MY birthday and they spent the evening "helping" me celebrate, and then they expected ME to pay for it, I'd be angry. I'd certainly pay for it, if it had been THEIRS.
> AngelEyes



Yes, but, depending on the country/culture you're in, this will place you somewhere in the spectrum between totally normal and unusually selfish. 

My Dutch friends tell me that in the Netherlands, it is normal for the person having the birthday to pay for the expenses.  In the US, your friends will usually cover your part of the bill if it's your birthday.  At other times, it depends totally on who you are with and your relationship to them.  Traditions are changing rapidly and vary widely from group to group. Americans do tend to pay for things themselves more.  I rarely see people buying rounds of drinks as commonly as they do in Europe.  When I was younger (20 year ago?) I remember that there was much talk about the importance for women to ask to to "go Dutch" (not sure why they call it that since the Dutch don't really practice it any more than anyone else), meaning that they would pay their own way on a date.  The idea was that it would put them on a more even ground and not give the man the idea that he was entitled to anything to which she did not agree.  Usually if one person takes the bill and pays for it, it will be a more senior/better off person, but there are many exceptions.  It's complicated even for Americans.  I've even seen  discussions about whether to split a bill evenly between all the parties or to have each person pay only for what they consumed.


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## Paulfromitaly

I'm Italian and over here guys usually pay for the bill at the first (and often at the second, third, fourth...) date, but I don't think it normally implies that the lady is then supposed to give something in return..
I'd find it really sad and somehow humiliating for both the man and the woman, although I'm sure it happens in many other countries and sometimes in Italy too.


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## AngelEyes

Dificilima,

Yes, thanks to ElaineG, I now know that it's a culture thing to pick up the tab when it's your own birthday in certain sections of the world.

But I would never think of letting a birthday person buy their own drinks or dinner if I were at the table and I knew them well.

I think the distinction that stands out in the original story is that the young lady didn't really know these guys, except superficially. That would have created a different outcome, in my mind, had that been me. 

I don't know if I would have stayed beyond maybe just one drink with a group of males I didn't know that well. And I also wouldn't make a judgment on French men in general (I'm not saying anyone was; I'm saying I wouldn't)based on those few either. Maybe they were jerks to begin with and were looking for a free night of partying...who knows?

Every situation is unique and calls for a singular answer or reaction.


AngelEyes


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## panjabigator

I just thought I'd throw in this thread because it is kind of related:  Going dutch.


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## mirx

Creo que lo que nuestra amiga quería saber era simplemente si "invitar" significa "yo pago".

En México o al menos en el norte invitar significa únicamente pedirle a alguien que te acompañe a algún lado y *no* tiene nada que ver con gastos.

La gente del sur a veces dice "te invito un helado", refiriénose a que ellos pagan, pero eso sólo lo he oido en el sur.

En inglés "invite" quiere decir al menos lo mismo que en el español de mi parte, pedir a alquien algo.

Así que es mejor que juntes tu dinero del avión. Aparte se me hace extremadamente raro que alguién le pague a otra persona un boleto de avión y mucho menos si es desde Bolivia.


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## dificilima

Paulfromitaly said:


> I'm Italian and over here guys usually pay for the bill at the first (and often at the second, third, fourth...) date, but I don't think it normally implies that the lady is then supposed to give something in return..
> I'd find it really sad and somehow humiliating for both the man and the woman, although I'm sure it happens in many other countries and sometimes in Italy too.



That's not the norm in the US either, but it occurs enough to make some women choose to pay their own way.  I don't know about Italy, but in the US violence against women (physical assault, rape and murder) is most often perpetrated by their male acquaintances.


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## Paulfromitaly

dificilima said:


> I don't know about Italy, but in the US violence against women (physical assault, rape and murder) is most often perpetrated by their male acquaintances.



I'm sorry, but I can't see any connection between who picks up the tab and violence against women..


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## dificilima

Paulfromitaly said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't see any connection between who picks up the tab and violence against women..



Women, particularly young and inexperienced women, who unthinkingly allow men to pick up the tab may sometimes end up in uncomfortable situations where the man feels entitled to more of the woman's attention/time than she is willing to give.  Sometimes that leads to violence in a society where cultural norms and behavior patterns are constantly in flux.   
When I was a teenager growing up in South America with a more rigid social/moral code, this was rarely a problem.  Girls were either good girls or bad girls and anyone who tried something on a good girl was usually pretty deviant, regardless of who had paid for what.  On the other hand, if you were labeled as a bad girl, you were often considered free game for any male regardless of what you had or had not done.   Here in the US, things are different.  For better or worse, behaviors and values are much less normalized and there's often more room for different interpretations or misinterpretations.  This is not a condemnation of men or any particular nationality, just a description of how I perceive the situation.  If I had a daughter in her teens or twenties living in the US, I would advise her to be cautious about allowing a man to pick up her tab, particularly if it involves transcontinental airfare.


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