# Maslavi/Mosul



## koukeye

Hi,

I wonder if the origin of the word Maslavi which refers now to a city in Iran is Slav = Slave. And if there is any relation, at the linguistic level between Maslavi and Mosul. I am conducting a research on the etymology of the word "Prayer in Arabic = صلاة" and how it has developed in the Arabic language and both Maslavi مصلاوي and Mosul موصل can share the same root but with different meanings.

Thanks in advance for your help and valuable information. I really appreciate.


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## origumi

Root צלא صلا in Hebrew, borrowed from Aramaic some 2500 years ago, means to pray.
The etymology of Mosul is said to be from موصول = connected (by bridge and ford over river Tigris).


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## fdb

origumi said:


> موصول



   "place of connection" موصل


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## koukeye

origumi said:


> Root צלא صلا in Hebrew, borrowed from Aramaic some 2500 years ago, means to pray.
> The etymology of Mosul is said to be from موصول = connected (by bridge and ford over river Tigris).


thanks a lot


fdb said:


> "place of connection" موصل



thanks a lot and i know that but i am treating each root aside. so my question is "what is the origin of the name Maslavi?" Hope my question is clearer now. And are there any derivatives?

Thanks in advance


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## fdb

Maslavi مصلاوى is a small village in Khuzistan. I assume you are asking about this name. It can hardly be connected with Mosul الموصل , nor with the Slavs صقالبة . It could conceivably be from مصلى“place of prayer”.


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## CyrusSH

There is also اسلاوي‎‎ village near Neyriz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eslavi


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## koukeye

fdb said:


> Maslavi مصلاوى is a small village in Khuzistan. I assume you are asking about this name. It can hardly be connected with Mosul الموصل , nor with the Slavs صقالبة . It could conceivably be from مصلى“place of prayer”.


thanks a lot. So you think maslavi is related to prayer. But Mosul no. Let's see the adjective of Mosul. It is مصلاوي in Arabic and Maslavi is also مصلاوي in Arabic. Here we came back for the same word مصلاوي. Then مصلاوي could derive both from prayer and from Mosul. I have to eliminate the wrong options to focus on "prayer".

Thanks a lot for your clarification. It is a little bit confusing for me. Maybe I should have asked from the beginning about مصلاوي. What do you think?



CyrusSH said:


> There is also اسلاوي‎‎ village near Neyriz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eslavi


Do you think eslavi is related to maslavi and the word changed over time? I think maslavi is nearer to prayer (if we eliminate the option of slav) because it has the same root. But maybe the ص changed into س with time or vice versa.


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## CyrusSH

koukeye, why did you mention "Slav" in your first post? Does it relate to the story about the invasion of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Babylonian Empire, to the west of modern Iran? -> http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-23735/page-2444


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## Treaty

koukeye said:


> Do you think eslavi is related to maslavi and the word changed over time? I think maslavi is nearer to prayer (if we eliminate the option of slav) because it has the same root. But maybe the ص changed into س with time or vice versa.



We should be careful that the term "village" is simply a technical term for a certain size of settlement. It can be just a house someone decided to build in the middle of nowhere, a few years ago. Similarly, the naming of a village is not necessarily related to the features village itself. It can be the name it founder or just some famous guy there. So, in case of unclear etymologies, we'd better not jump to any conclusion before knowing when the "village" was built and who built it. Even if it is an old village, we should mind that central Iran is home to numerous Iranian dialects who have created untraceable toponyms over time. 

By the way, مَصلاء _maṣlā'_ seems to mean "slender-armed woman" in Arabic. On the other hand, Arabic اسلاء _islā_' (cognate of تسلية and تسلّ) means "to make forget, to comfort mind".


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## koukeye

CyrusSH said:


> koukeye, why did you mention "Slav" in your first post? Does it relate to the story about the invasion of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Babylonian Empire, to the west of modern Iran? -> http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-23735/page-2444


Yes dear it is one of the reasons. But, honestly I am not focusing on the historical and geographical context as much as I am interested in the language. I know that the language reflects a culture, thus an history and a geography. To be clear, the first thing I did with maslavi is to cut it into syllabes and I got slav.



Treaty said:


> We should be careful that the term "village" is simply a technical term for a certain size of settlement. It can be just a house someone decided to build in the middle of nowhere, a few years ago. Similarly, the naming of a village is not necessarily related to the features village itself. It can be the name it founder or just some famous guy there. So, in case of unclear etymologies, we'd better not jump to any conclusion before knowing when the "village" was built and who built it. Even if it is an old village, we should mind that central Iran is home to numerous Iranian dialects who have created untraceable toponyms over time.
> 
> By the way, مَصلاء _maṣlā'_ seems to mean "slender-armed woman" in Arabic. On the other hand, Arabic اسلاء _islā_' (cognate of تسلية and تسلّ) means "to make forget, to comfort mind".


  Then it might have come from the verb asla أصلى Which means (enter into fire) and it can apply on both (war context - or relief ). Then it wouldn't be related to salla (pray)  unless it means pray not to enter fire and to feel comfort.

So let us get back to the first obstacle I faced: I have Maslavi مصلاوي and the same word مصلاوي to refer to something or someone belonging to Mosul. I wish you help discover the etymology of each aside because it is really confusing. I have many options and I can share them with you if this might help. Thanks again



koukeye said:


> Then it might have come from the verb asla أصلى Which means (enter into fire) and it can apply on both (war context - or relief ). Then it wouldn't be related to salla (pray)  unless it means pray not to enter fire and to feel comfort.


I totally agree with what you said about "village"


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## fdb

koukeye said:


> Let's see the adjective of Mosul. It is مصلاوي in Arabic



I am aware only of موصلى as the nisba of الموصل .


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## koukeye

fdb said:


> I am aware only of موصلى as the nisba of الموصل .


It is mousali موصلي and maslawi مصلاوي. The latter is more common and their dialect is مصلاوي. They speak مصلاوي and I think it is a mix of Arabic and Hebrew since the Jewish have been there. It is also affected by Pesrian and Turkish since the two countries are in the neighborhood


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## origumi

fdb said:


> I am aware only of موصلى as the nisba of الموصل .


Many Jews who came from Mosul have the last name Matslawi or Maslawi.
(ص is pronounced "ts" or "s" in modern Hebrew)


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## CyrusSH

If the original name was Masli then someone from this city could be called Maslawi. But isn't Maslawi the name of Christians?


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## koukeye

CyrusSH said:


> If the original name was Masli then someone from this city could be called Maslawi. But isn't Maslawi the name of Christians?


If the city was originally called Masli then why it has now the name Maslavi? I am searching the link with prayer but you are pinpointing that it has some relation with christians, something I do not know as I am just a linguistic not an historian. All what I know is that the citizens of Mosul (the Maslawis) were mainly Jewish and Christian families.


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## koukeye

koukeye said:


> If the city was originally called Masli then why it has now the name Maslavi? I am searching the link with prayer but you are pinpointing that it has some relation with christians, something I do not know as I am just a linguistic not an historian. All what I know is that the citizens of Mosul (the Maslawis) were mainly Jewish and Christian families.


Do you mean "Nasrawi" or "nasiri" (Nazareth)? This means christian


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## CyrusSH

No, I meant مصلوی (Maslawi), Followers of the Cross.


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## koukeye

CyrusSH said:


> No, I meant مصلوی (Maslawi), Followers of the Cross.


well, I never heard of that. Could you please provide me with some proof? Thanks in advance


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## Ihsiin

'Cross' is صليب in Arabic - I think you're getting confused.
صليبي means 'crusader'. I'm not aware of any Arabic word for 'Christian' which means 'follower of the Cross'.


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## koukeye

Ihsiin said:


> 'Cross' is صليب in Arabic - I think you're getting confused.
> صليبي means 'crusader'. I'm not aware of any Arabic word for 'Christian' which means 'follower of the Cross'.



Neither do I. That's why I am asking CyrusSH for a proof that Maslawi مصلوي means a follower of the cross.

Anyway, my question is about the origin of Maslavi because in Arabic it is maslawi مصلاوي exactly that of the citizen of Mosul. I believe one of them is related to prayer and religion. The other no.


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## CyrusSH

That is probably just a Persian form of مصلوبی (Maslubi).


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## Ihsiin

Yes, sorry, I was addressing Cyrus, I should have edited my post to make it clear.

Anyway, in summary:

The word مصلاوي denotes a citizen of موصل, following a pattern common in modern Arabic (c.f. بصراوي، ناصراوي، كاظماوي, etc.). The etymology of موصل is fairly straightforward and uncomplicated and needn't bother us too much.
مصلاوي is also the name of a village. It is not clear if this is related to Mosul or not. It is conceivable that the village first had some connection to Mosul and thus was dubbed مصلاوي, 'of Mosul'. There will be need for some evidence to support this idea, however, of which I have none. On the other hand, it may have an alternative etymology, in which case the city of Mosul would be a red herring.


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## Ihsiin

مصلوبي means 'of the crucified one' in Arabic. I've never heard this term used to refer to Christians in Arabic. Is it used in Persian?


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## koukeye

Ihsiin said:


> Yes, sorry, I was addressing Cyrus, I should have edited my post to make it clear.
> 
> Anyway, in summary:
> 
> The word مصلاوي denotes a citizen of موصل, following a pattern common in modern Arabic (c.f. بصراوي، ناصراوي، كاظماوي, etc.). The etymology of موصل is fairly straightforward and uncomplicated and needn't bother us too much.
> مصلاوي is also the name of a village. It is not clear if this is related to Mosul or not. It is conceivable that the village first had some connection to Mosul and thus was dubbed مصلاوي, 'of Mosul'. There will be need for some evidence to support this idea, however, of which I have none. On the other hand, it may have an alternative etymology, in which case the city of Mosul would be a red herring.


Exactly! This is what I am saying.  Now I have many questions:
1- Is there any relation between Mosul and Maslavi (so they have the same root)?
2- Now
that we know what is مصلاوي refers to, what could be their origin?

Treaty and CyrusSH, can you help me please with the origin of Maslavi whatever it is city, village....Where did this word come from? Was there any language they used to speak there before the Farsi? Which population was there? Maybe we can start from this point and do the same for Mosul. Once the problem of Maslawi is fixed it will be much easier.

Thanks in advance



koukeye said:


> Exactly! This is what I am saying.  Now I have many questions:
> 1- Is there any relation between Mosul and Maslavi (so they have the same root)?
> 2- Now we know to what each مصلاوي refers. What is their origin?


Ihsin, do you think that مصلاوي refers to Maslavi in Iran or to Mosul. It is exactly the same and I need to find out which is, let's say, the original word and the "fake" word. Apparently and at the linguistic level مصلاوي should refer to Maslavi in Iran because the citizen of Mosul should be called موصلي. However, since words change over time , and since historically مصلاوي is more related to Mosul, I have to get more opinions on this issue.

Origumi


origumi said:


> Root צלא صلا in Hebrew, borrowed from Aramaic some 2500 years ago, means to pray.
> The etymology of Mosul is said to be from موصول = connected (by bridge and ford over river Tigris).


Origumi, does the word "Maslawi" مصلاوي exist nowadays in Hebrew? If yes, what does it mean?


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## origumi

koukeye said:


> Does the word "Maslawi" مصلاوي exist nowadays in Hebrew? If yes, what does it mean?


Only as a name of people whose family come from Mosul. This is clearly an Arabic word, the Hebrew nisba would be "Mosuli" or alike.


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## koukeye

origumi said:


> Only as a name of people whose family come from Mosul. This is clearly an Arabic word, the Hebrew nisba would be "Mosuli" or alike.


Thanks a lot Origumi. Well I am not sure anymore it is an Arabic word. It might be Farsi. Let's see where we will get.


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## Ihsiin

No, the word مصلاوي meaning someone who comes from Mosul is definitely Arabic.

Let us make things clear - there are two words here, which happen to have the same sound. That doesn't make them the same word.

One means someone who comes from Mosul. The etymology of this word is obvious and needn't be discussed further.

The other means a town in Khuzestan, the etymology of which is, of yet, unclear. This _may_ be related to the first word, or it might not be. Either way, it won't have any influence on the meaning or etymology of the first word.


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## CyrusSH

koukeye said:


> Treaty and CyrusSH, can you help me please with the origin of Maslavi whatever it is city, village....Where did this word come from? Was there any language they used to speak there before the Farsi? Which population was there? Maybe we can start from this point and do the same for Mosul. Once the problem of Maslawi is fixed it will be much easier.
> 
> Thanks in advance



I think ص in مصلاوی shows that this word has an Arabic origin, other than it مصلاوی is in a region where the majority speak Arabic.


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## Treaty

koukeye said:


> Treaty and CyrusSH, can you help me please with the origin of Maslavi whatever it is city, village....Where did this word come from? Was there any language they used to speak there before the Farsi? Which population was there? Maybe we can start from this point and do the same for Mosul. Once the problem of Maslawi is fixed it will be much easier.
> Thanks in advance



I think I said as long as we don't know when and how and by who the village was founded we cannot reach to a definite conclusion about the etymology. The village Maslawi is older than three generations. Some villages were simply created to forcefully settle Arab tribesmen. If we are not lucky to find a firsthand written source about its foundation, then we can't definitely pinpoint its etymology.

We can be almost sure that the term is Arabic because of the extensive Arabian background of the place for hundreds of years. But whether it is related to مصلاء or موصل or even مصلی (if there is a dialectal suffixation to مصلاوی) remains a guesswork. In terms of probabilities, it is more likely that a person with a background in موصل had contributed to the settlement and so it was name after him. But this is pure guesswork. However, it will be a bad idea to compare it with موصل or seek for who has historically lived there because you imply you non-evidentially assume مصلاوی is comparably old.


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## koukeye

Thanks everybody for your valuable information. If we take the word Maslawi, one of the probabilities is that it is named after someone from Mosul (as Treaty said). In YOUR opinion, what could be the other options. I know it is just a guesswork (again as Treaty said) and I believe so but maybe these probabilities can lead me to some written documents.

Thanks a lot guys


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