# these two red cars



## Nino83

Hello everybody. 

Are correct these two sentences? 

These two red cars. 
この赤い二台の車
この赤い車二台  

Thank you


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## karlalou

Yes, I guess, as a clause they can exist, though people will ask "What about these cars?", you know.


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## tagoot

“these two red cars” is normally translated into Japanese as “これら２台の赤い車（or自動車）”. 
”これらの赤い二台の車”would be fine too although it does not follow the word order, though. 
“これらの赤い車二台” is used when you want to emphasize the exact number of the cars.


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## Nino83

Thank you, so the order is demonstrative + number/counter + adjective + noun or demonstrative + adjective + noun + number/counter.


tagoot said:


> これら２台の赤い車
> これらの赤い車二台


Hi, tagoot.
Why do you use これら? I knew the demonstrative *adjective* was この, while これ is a *pronoun*, isn't it?
It sounds like "two red car of these".


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## frequency

Except the demonstrative pronoun, they're correct, and the second one is more compact. Good. I wonder how you've got it!
The first one may be too formal, so it would be bothersome to say. But don't forget it's correct.


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## Nino83

Now I'm a bit confused.
In the first sentence, that with 二台の車, the adjective 赤い is placed between the number/counter and the noun or before the number/counter? 
赤い二台の車 or 二台の赤い車?


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## frequency

Oof good. I haven't ever compared it. Both are really okay. Well, I feel that number should be joined nearer to the noun, so the first one may _slightly_ be better, but it depends.

Does anybody know?


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## tagoot

1. #6 word order
I would prefer “二台の赤い車”. “赤い二台の車”, however, is also acceptable. Japanese language does not care about word order very much.



tagoot said:


> ”これらの赤い二台の車”would be fine too although it does not follow the word order, though.


 I meant ”これらの赤い二台の車” does not follow the word order of the original phrase, namely “These two red cars”, rather than general rule of word order.

2. #4これ&これら

これ is pronoun, and its plural form is これら.
この is demonstrativeadjective of これ, and its plural form is これらの.

Therefore,これらの２台の赤い車 is grammatically correct. We also say, however, これら２台の赤い車, probably because we want to avoid the repetition of “の”. As a matter of fact while we sayこれらの赤い車二台, we don’t sayこれら赤い車二台.

The above being said, Japanese language does not care about the distinction of single and plural numbers so seriously. We casually say この２台の赤い車 or この赤い２台の車. I hope I haven’t confused you very much.


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## Nino83

tagoot said:


> Therefore,これらの２台の赤い車 is grammatically correct. We also say, however, これら２台の赤い車, probably because we want to avoid the repetition of “の”. As a matter of fact while we sayこれらの赤い車二台, we don’t sayこれら赤い車二台.
> The above being said, Japanese language does not care about the distinction of single and plural numbers so seriously. We casually say この２台の赤い車 or この赤い２台の車. I hope I haven’t confused you very much.


No, no, it's all clear.
Thank you, tagoot!


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## karlalou

Nino83 said:


> These two red cars.
> この赤い二台の車
> この赤い車二台


It's just usually the main idea comes at the end.
Indicative adjective usually comes first.
The rest, I think there's no rule but maybe preferences.
It's no problem to use この for plural nouns, it's the way and just so natural for Japanese. Japanese is a language doesn't concern on single or plural. It seems that これらの is more and more commonly used but to me it still sounds very much like influence from English.


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