# créatures de rêve



## astrantia

Hi all,

I'm wondering if you can help me understand what *créatures de rêve* means in the following context.

The expression appears in a strange, rather surreal short story (Le Canal, by Agota Kristof) that recounts the dream of a dying man. In the dream, he's brought by a child (his son) to a river where there are figures floating by, staring blindly at the stars:

   "L'enfant le conduit aux confins de la ville où coule une rivière aux reflets jaunes, éclairée par de puissants projecteurs. Des silhouettes couchées sur le dos se laissent porter par le courant, les yeux tournés vers le ciel étoilé.
   L'homme a un ricanement.
   - Des *créatures de rêves*? Des vieillards, oui. Je reconnais mon père et ma mère dans la rivière de l'éternelle jeunesse"

Apart from the literal translation 'dream creatures', which doesn't make too much sense to me in English, I'm wondering if there's another interpretation or if I'm missing some kind of mythical reference or allusion?

Any inspiration or insight would be much appreciated!


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## Garoubet

Yes the meaning is a a _dream-like creature_. It's just ironic here.


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## astrantia

Thank you Garoubet. I'm still not sure I fully understand - do you mean _dream-like_ in the sense that they are not real/illusory, ghostly even. Or is 'de rêve' meant here in the sense of _ideal_ (like in the expression _dream job/emploi de rêve_).
Thank you!


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## Keith Bradford

I think you have to use your imagination here.  When I organised a Mardi Gras Party with the theme *créatures de rêve*, people turned up dressed as fairies, angels, superheroes...


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## astrantia

Thanks Keith, that's really helpful. I think I get it now. So something like _mythical/fantastical creatures _is closer to the French? Though that loses the dream reference, which feels important here in the context of a story about a dream... 
Was also wondering if _heavenly creatures or celestial beings _might work, which would preserve the irony, because the 'creatures' in the river are dead people trapped in a town's waste pipes, so not at all heavenly/celestial...

Thanks again!


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## Keith Bradford

Well, given that my carnival invitation was to cross-dressers, I don't think _heavenly _or _celestial _does the trick!   Go for _dream creatures _or_ mythical/fantastical_.


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## astrantia

Thanks for clarifying Keith! 
Also wondering about _water nymphs._ Too specific perhaps?


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## Garoubet

astrantia said:


> Also wondering about _water nymphs._ Too specific perhaps?


Why not in this specific context?


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## astrantia

...or mermaids even!


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## Laurent2018

I beg to differ.

The dying man has a dream where he sees himself saying "créatures de rêves?", as if he was aware of him dreaming!
Beyond the surrealism, I think it means "créatures _dignes_ d'un rêve?" ou "créatures dignes de _mon_ rêve?" Réponse: non, il n'y a que des vieillards qui flottent (plutôt dignes d'un cauchemar).
It's very close to the first Garoubet's suggestion, i.e. not trying to imagine fantastic creatures...


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## astrantia

Thank you Laurent2018 for your help. So the meaning is perhaps more straightforward, literal even, and nothing to do with mermaids or nymphs!


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## Garoubet

I confirm, it has nothing to do with mermaids or nymphs. _Créature de rève_ is a set expression in French, meaning a very, very beautiful person, a person more beautiful than in the wildest dreams. 
But you might want to adapt the expression since it doesn't convey the same meaning in English. In France, if you organize a Mardy Gras Party with such theme, you'll get sex bombs, not fairies, angels or superheroes, unless it's your kid's party.


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## Laurent2018

astrantia said:


> literal even



Yes, i.e. "créatures de rêve?" (sarcasm) none, just "créatures de cauchemar!" instead (dead people floating in the sewage - not super sexy).


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## Locape

Garoubet said:


> _Créature de rêve_ is a set expression in French, meaning a very, very beautiful person, a person more beautiful than in the wildest dreams.
> In France, if you organize a Mardy Gras Party with such theme, you'll get sex bombs, not fairies, angels or superheroes, unless it's your kid's party.


Je pense que Keith a organisé cette fête en Bretagne, je ne me trompe pas ? Même si c'est une expression consacrée, si c'est le thème d'une fête/soirée, on s'autorise à l'interpréter dans un sens plus large (et tout le monde ne ressemble pas à des top-modèles...).


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## Garoubet

J'ai connu une soirée en France (il y a longtemps, au siècle dernier) dont c'était le thème, et tout le monde avait compris la même chose. Il n'y avait ni fées, no anges ni super heros. Bon les temps changent, il faut que je m'adapte.


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## Laurent2018

Le fait est que le lecteur devient témoin du rêve et de ce qui s'y passe; selon moi, "rêve" est le maître-mot et ne doit pas être escamoté...


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## astrantia

Merci infiniment à tout le monde pour votre aide!

I agree Laurent2018 that the dream aspect feels crucial. If I'm not mistaken, there is a wordplay or double meaning in _créatures de rêve_ - creatures that literally appear in the man's dream + creatures of unusual beauty, beyond one's wildest dreams.

Gabouret, I think you're right, that it does need adapting. We do have the set expression _the man/woman of my dream_s, meaning the perfect and most desirable man/woman. This also keeps the dream pun going, but in the English it becomes gender-specific, unlike the French term. _Person/people/creatures_ of my dreams doesn't quite have the same ring...

There's also _visions of beauty/loveliness_, which is a set expression describing someone of exceptional beauty + a vision is also a kind of dream. So it has a double meaning and would convey a similar sense of irony. A vision can also be a supernatural apparition which fits in the context of a dying man.

As regards mythological or fantasy creatures, it's perhaps a step too far, but nymphs and mermaids/sirens are used in literary contexts to refer to beautiful women. Plus they hang out in water which is apt... 

Thank you again to everyone for helping me unpick this expression. I understand it so much better now. Any further inspiration most welcome!


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## Laurent2018

Maybe you could say: "creatures worth a dream" or "creatures deserving a dream"...?


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## Keith Bradford

Garoubet said:


> .... In France, if you organize a Mardy *Mardi *Gras Party with such theme, you'll get sex bombs, not fairies, angels or superheroes...


I got all those, that's all I can say.  Perhaps my guests were more imaginative?


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## astrantia

Thanks for the visual Keith! 
Just had another thought - does the fact that these creatures are 'éclairée par de puissants projecteurs' also evoke the idea (ironically) of superstars or celebrities in the spotlight? What do you think?


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## ShivaChan

Garoubet said:


> I confirm, it has nothing to do with mermaids or nymphs. _Créature de rève_ is a set expression in French, meaning a very, very beautiful person, a person more beautiful than in the wildest dreams.


I agree with this. "Créature de rêve" literally means someone who's extremely attractive. But since this takes place in a dream, I agree that there's a double meaning.

I would use the word "dreamy" as it can also mean both.



astrantia said:


> Thanks for the visual Keith!
> Just had another thought - does the fact that these creatures are 'éclairée par de puissants projecteurs' also evoke the idea (ironically) of superstars or celebrities in the spotlight? What do you think?


I think so, yes, since celebrities are usually attractive.


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## astrantia

Thanks very much for your help ShivaChan. Yes, I like 'dreamy' too. Also wondering about 'dreamboat' which fits the watery context, but I think it's used mostly in reference to attractive men...


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## ShivaChan

Yeah, I think dreamboat only means attractive man as far as I know.


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## LARSAY

In French, "une créature de rêve" is a stunningly beautiful  woman ; in your text, it is used as a sarcasm


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## astrantia

Thanks very much for your help Larsay. Yes, I see that. My challenge now is finding an equivalent expression in English that captures the irony and wordplay of the original within the context of the story. And which doesn't sound forced. C'est pas évident!
Thanks again


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I doubt that the father meant that he thought his dead parents were knockouts, especially if they'd been trapped in a sewer pipe... I thought of "fantastic (which is also sort of ambiguous) creatures" ?


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## astrantia

Thank you for your help ain'ttranslationfun? Yes that's a viable option. Will add it to the list. I'm hoping the perfect expression will somehow emerge from my unconscious or perhaps it will appear in my dreams...!


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## tartopom

astrantia said:


> Though that loses the dream reference, which feels important here in the context of a story about a dream...


Even if the story's about a dream I'm not convinced there's a play on words 'des créatures de rêves' and 'dream and stuff'.
The man says ' Des créatures de rêve ?' He's expecting gorgeous girls floating on the river but he can only see old guys 'Des vieillards, oui'.


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## astrantia

Thank you tartopom. Yes, perhaps I'm over interpreting! It would certainly open up a whole range of other possibilities if I could abandon the dream idea. Do you think the 'créatures' are necessarily female?


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## tartopom

astrantia said:


> Do you think the 'créatures' are necessarily female?


'créatures' I don't think so.
 'créatures de rêve' sorry for being sexist but I do. Yes, I do.


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## Locape

You could use maybe 'créatures de rêve' for both men and women if you talk about a fashion show with models or a preview showing with actors, but it's not used in French for men only.


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## Freemagnolia

In French, "créature de rêve" definitely means something like 'gorgeous creature', 'very beautiful/handsome person'. In your text it is obviously irony, sarcasm. And in my opinion it has nothing to do with sthg dreamy or with fairies...


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## Locape

Bienvenue sur WR, *Freemagnolia* !


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## tartopom

Welcome to WR, Freemagnolia.


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## Freemagnolia

Merci, Locape ! Thanks, Tartopom!


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## astrantia

Thanks so much everyone for further clarification.

I'm ditching dreams and fairies for now and considering 'bathing beauties' - beautiful women in bathing suits/in a beauty contest (it came to me in my sleep!).  It's a different image but conveys the same irony and inherent sexism, without explicitly stating gender while strongly implying it. It's also a kind of set expression and feels particularly apt in the watery context. 
Thanks again everyone for your time and help. It's very much appreciated.


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## Laurent2018

Maybe I'm wrong, but you should refer to "Léthé" river, the waters of oblivion and eternal youth.
Could be a mythical reference, or at least symbolic, and so slightly remote from Acapulco or Miami Beach !
Perhaps consider "mythical/biblical creatures"...? If you make a mistake, it'll be less severe than a wrong usage of "pretty ladies in bathing suits" !


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## astrantia

Thanks for the red light Laurent2018! The allusion to Léthé sounds very plausible and makes bathing beauties sound rather ridiculous. Back to the drawing board...
Thanks for your patience and perseverance.


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## astrantia

...I think it's best to play it safe and go with 'fantastic' or 'fabulous' creatures. Either of these feel ambiguous (mythical and/or beautiful) in a similar way to the French expression.
Thanks again for all the help!


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