# Since the people of all nations are seeking peace,



## William Stein

The full sentence (which deserves the Nobel Prize for naivety!)  is "Since the people of all nations are seeking peace, all leaders must conquer the passion for power".

I'm not sure what the best translation of "people" is here but, assuming it's "populus" in the singular I came up with this:

"Populo omnium gentium pacem quaerendo, cupiditas potestates omnibus ducis superanda est"

Is that (grammatically) correct?


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## Scholiast

saluete omnes!

The grammar is not wholly wrong, and for the general sentiment the gerundive is splendid. But there are some possible refinements.

_gens_ is in this sense better than _populus_, for what in modern English we would term a "people". And _cupiditas _is a little clumsy.

Try then this (of course other contributors to the Forum may come up with better proposals):

_quaerentibus pacem gentibus, dominandi cupido vincenda._

Agreed, 'tis a rather naive thing in English, but such aphorisms always sound better, and more economical, in Latin.

Σ


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## William Stein

Scholiast said:


> saluete omnes!
> 
> The grammar is not wholly wrong, and for the general sentiment the gerundive is splendid. But there are some possible refinements.
> 
> _gens_ is in this sense better than _populus_, for what in modern English we would term a "people". And _cupiditas _is a little clumsy.
> 
> Try then this (of course other contributors to the Forum may come up with better proposals):
> 
> _quaerentibus pacem gentibus, dominandi cupido vincenda._
> 
> Agreed, 'tis a rather naive thing in English, but such aphorisms always sound better, and more economical, in Latin.
> 
> Σ



Salue Scholiaste!

Cafeina bibita, verba tua mihi comprehenda sunt.

I wasn't very happy with "populo". I was toying with several  possibilities but wasn't too crazy about any of them: 
"hominibus omnium gentium pacem quaerendis" 
"omnibus omnium civitatum ... 
I was also thinking about "natio", which I once heard originally meant "people". The problem is that I don't have a really good dictionary to explain all the nuances to me. 
I guess you are capitalizing on the broad semantic field of gens (both "people" and "nation") to condense "people of all countries" into one word, right?

Unfortunately, the last part is a bit too pithy for me to follow. Is "cupido" is the ablative of "cupidus" (greedy)? 'Dominandi" looks like it should mean "those to be dominated", but that doesn't make much sense: Those dominated by greed are to be defeated? "


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## Scholiast

Sorry for the tardy reply - I am usually notified by WRF of responses, but curiously on this occasion I heard nothing.

Now to answer your queries:

1. _gens_ is right for "peoples"/"nations". Certainly not _populus_;
2. _cupido_ is nominative, therefore subject of the main idea, and _dominandi_ a gerund - "*Desire* for ["of"] domination"...

I hope this helps.

Σ


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## William Stein

Scholiast said:


> Sorry for the tardy reply - I am usually notified by WRF of responses, but curiously on this occasion I heard nothing.
> 
> Now to answer your queries:
> 
> 1. _gens_ is right for "peoples"/"nations". Certainly not _populus_;
> 2. _cupido_ is nominative, therefore subject of the main idea, and _dominandi_ a gerund - "*Desire* for ["of"] domination"...
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Σ



Sorry to be so thick but I'm still not quite sure: 

I thought "quaerentibus pacem gentibus" was in the ablative as an independent clause, but now I think it might be in the dative as in "hostes *mihi *vicendi":

The desire for domination must be overcome by people desirous of peace???


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## dubitans

I think _petere_ is better than _quaerere_. 
Hence, as AcI, _petentibus pacem omnibus gentibus
_Then I wouldn't omit _all leaders.
_Hence, as main clause, _dominandi cupido vincenda__ omnibus ducibus_
Whole sentence:
_petentibus pacem omnibus gentibus __dominandi cupido vincenda omnibus ducibus_
When it comes to word order though, I suggest the following two-liner:

_omnibus gentibus pacem petentibus
omnibus ducibus dominandi cupido vincenda

_One might, however, wish to avoid that multitude of buses. 
So why not
_omnibus gentibus pacem petentibus
omnes duces dominandi cupidinem vincant


_Or even without AcI:
_omnes duces dominandi cupidinem vincant
__quia omnes gentes pacem petent


_And for the alliterates:
_populis pacem petentibus
pereat __potestatis __peradoratio __principum 
_


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## William Stein

Thanks for the excellent and very funny answer, Dubitans. My only remaining doubt concerns "vicenda". I don't see any feminine antecedent so I assume it is in the neuter plural (vicenda = things to be conquered?), but that doesn't make sense to me either because "dominandi cupido" (desire for domination) is in the masculine singular, right? Is this the idea: _omnibus ducibus dominandi cupido vincenda = desire of domination is something to be conquered? _


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## dubitans

cupido is as feminine as Miss Monroe singing Happy Birthday, Mr President.


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## William Stein

dubitans said:


> cupido is as feminine as Miss Monroe singing Happy Birthday, Mr President.



I don't mean to burst your bubble but Marylin sang that before (s)he got the sex change operation (just kidding).
It's all clear to me now thanks. The only definition of "cupido" I could find online was the son of Venus. I really need a good Latin dictionary (at least an online version).


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## dubitans

Bill, I thee charge with not reading my post in the first degree. Did I not write _omnes duces dominandi cupidinem vincant_? Was it not crystal clear thence that _cupido_ was a girl? Sex change is way easier than gender change, crede mihi Gulielme.

Re dictionarii propono http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dcupido


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## William Stein

Wow, that's the world's greatest dictionary, thanks.
I confess I didn't understand "cupidinem". I've only been studying Latin for about 6 weeks and I can't remember seeing any words that follow that pattern in my vast history of Latin studies.


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## dubitans

Omnes!
Mea maxima culpa!
In #6 I called an AcI what in fact is an _ablativus absolutus._
IVPITER, have mercy on me!


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