# Help with translation, please!



## amareadaeternum

Salvete, amici!

I'm Anna, and I'm from Portugal. I'm taking Latin at University and loving it, but it's a low level. I wrote a letter to my magistra because she really is amazing and she helped me a lot. Can you guys just take a look at it? I show the english text I prepared and then the translation made. If you can help me, I'll be thankful.
P.s: Can someone just tell me please if the correct form of treatment (well, because it's a teacher) in Latin is used as "tu" or "vos".


English:

  Dear Magistra,
  I have never thought that I’d be writing a letter to you, but with you I felt the need to. I have so much to thank you. I’m just really thankful and I feel an honor to have worked with you. I think you are an awesome/amazing person and a fabulous professional. I liked Latin since the beginning because it really meant something to me; it touched me deep down (even with all the grammar and the entire vocabulary list!). I also truly enjoy the way you teach, the way you convey emotions through Latin-reading and the way you connect with such grace/natural manners with the language [Note to reader: Somebody told me to allude Cicero in here because he loves the Triad, but how can I do it?]. As I want to be a teacher, I learnt a lot from you. And you thought I was crazy to choose your class timetable because it was too early, but it was totally worth it. It was a great year of Latin. “I came, I saw, I conquered.”. _I came _putting all my effort in Latin learning; _I saw_ by searching for more, latin websites, latin literature, books of latin proverbs and habits, studying hard to be good and participate in every class; and finally _I conquered_. I’ll miss Latin I and II, but it was such a great journey. I learnt that Latin is not dead, latin is such a romantic and vivid language, latin is eternal, latin lives in the word forever. May the words be ever with us and guide us.  _Penita sum ignis et fortuna audaces iuvat._​  Ana Raquel 

Latin:

Cara magistra, Nunquam hanc epistolam putabam vos scribere sed, gratulanter, constitui vos dicere quae dum viva sum, linguam latinam amabo. Gratias multas vobis ago, magistra. Gratissima sum et decus sentio per totum laborem cum vos haberi. Cogito tu es mira ut magistra et a persona. Amabat Latina ab principium quia tangerebat me et solliciterebat me. Vos es charisma et incitas me in meae futurum opum ut a magistra. Erat difficile sustinere sed erat annum dignum. Fiebas annum eximium.“Veni, Vidi, Vici.” _Veni,_ position meae omnes labore in Latinam. _Vidi_, pervestigatio enim plus fontes Latinae (libris Latinae, websites…) et noscebat et attendebat omnes mei classis cum alacritas et, tandem,_ vici._ Desiderabo Latinam I et II, sed erat bonum iternum. Doctus latinam non est mortuam sed est aeternuam et habitat in verba. Verbas inducebat
_Penita sum ignis et fortuna audaces iuvat._​ Tibi gratias ago,  Ana Raquel


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## XiaoRoel

Se você oferece a versão em português seria-me mais fácil ajuda-lo na correcção.


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## Scholiast

salve tu quoque, Anna!

How cheering it is to hear that a student feels such warm appreciation of his/her teacher, and of our beloved Latin language.

XiaoRoel would no doubt provide excellent advice and constructive criticism of the version you have penned, and I too would be glad to, but before I go to town on it, I have a couple of observations.

First, although late Latin and the Romance legacy languages adopt the formal plural (_vos_, _voi_, _vous_ &c.), _tu_ is fine in classical Latin, even to someone you would in everyday speech formally address as "Sir" or "Madam".

Secondly, although the Latin you have written needs some correction, would it not be a greater tribute to your teacher if you leave it - warts and all - as it stands? She will know, after all, what you can do, and what you cannot, and she will surely appreciate the effort you have made to thank her, much better than if it were in studiedly correct Ciceronian periods, which she - any good teacher - would instantly recognise as "not all my own work".

Cagey or another Moderator may regard this as verging on "chat", so by all means send a PM if you need further help.


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## Peano

Dear Raquel, courageous students like you will no doubt make Latin live forever. As Scholiast says, there's no need to make a perfect letter. Anyway, we may do some corrections:

1. Nunquam hanc epistolam putabam vos scribere > Nunquam hanc epistolam putabam *vobis* [or better *tibi*] scribere
Here you need the dative.

2. Cogito tu es mira ut magistra et a persona. > Mea sententia [_In my opinion_], tu es mira ut magistra et persona. / Cogito *te esse miram* ut magistra et persona.
Here you have two options, the latter being an indirect sentence.


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## amareadaeternum

Peano said:


> Dear Raquel, courageous students like you will no doubt make Latin live forever. As Scholiast says, there's no need to make a perfect letter. Anyway, we may do some corrections:
> 
> 1. Nunquam hanc epistolam putabam vos scribere > Nunquam hanc epistolam putabam *vobis* [or better *tibi*] scribere
> Here you need the dative.
> 
> 2. Cogito tu es mira ut magistra et a persona. > Mea sententia [_In my opinion_], tu es mira ut magistra et persona. / Cogito *te esse miram* ut magistra et persona.
> Here you have two options, the latter being an indirect sentence.



I have already message the other people for some specific help.
But thank you so much for, first, the kind words and second, for the corrections you made. 
I love latin, I'm not afraid to show it, it changed my life, really. And I totally agree with the need to not make a perfect letter. Well, I am who I am and there's a lot to learn about Latin.
The first correction makes sense for me: it's kinda obvious that it's a indirect object, my fault and my typical distractions. As for the second correction, thank you, it helped a lot. 

Vale,
Ana Raquel


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## Peano

Well, in the latter sentence all should be probably in the accusative: Cogito te esse mira*m* ut magistra*m* et persona*m*.


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## amareadaeternum

Peano said:


> Well, in the latter sentence all should be probably in the accusative: Cogito te esse mira*m* ut magistra*m* et persona*m*.



Hum, okay, it makes sense. Is it because we have an infinitive clause and "magistra", "persona" and the adjectif "mira" are all related so that in here all of them go to accusative?


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## Peano

Well, actually I'm not sure about it, I hope someone may confirm it. Anyway there's a safe alternative: *Cogito te esse miram magistram et personam.*


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## amareadaeternum

Peano said:


> Well, actually I'm not sure about it, I hope someone may confirm it. Anyway there's a safe alternative: *Cogito te esse miram magistram et personam.*



Maximas gratias tibi ago.


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## XiaoRoel

Um problema grave na tua redacção latina e a *ordem das palavras*. Em latim a ordem é muito rígida: *Primeira palavra da oração* (tirante os advérbios, léxicos, sintácticos ou sintagmáticos que afectem toda a oração; ou os apresentadores de paragrafo do tipo por tanto, em efeito, etc.) *é o sujeito* quando está presente na oração, depois aparecerão, os OD (ou CR) e os OI, sempre antes do verbo em bem próximos a ele. Os circunstanciais, que são elementos adverbiais, têm mais versatilidade na sua colocação. *A palavra final do sintagma verbal em latim é o verbo.* O "verbo" _*sum*_ das chamadas orações atributivas pode (e é frequente) não ser ele a última palavra, senão o atributo.
No tocante aos *satélites do núcleo nominal, o latim segue a mesma ordem do inglês* (o adjectivo adjacente do núcleo substantivo precede-o).
O latim é uma língua, como também o grego, *atuante (ou tuteante*, se quiseres), *só há tratamento de tu*, o tratamento de respeito, não afecta ao uso das pessoas verbais.

*Fórmula de início de carta* para alguém a quem se respeita e se tem como superior: nome de quem assina a carta em nominativo, as siglas S. D. (_*salutem dat*_) e o nome de aquele a quem vai dirigida a carta em dativo. *ANA RAQUEL S. D.* (e o nome da professora de latim em caso dativo, também em maiúsculas).

Por _mensagem privada_ vou-te mandar _várias possíveis redacções_ da tua missiva.

Saudações.


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