# نفس



## Interprete

Hello,

I am wondering what the exact meaning of NAFS is in the following passage:



اجعل الأجرة بالمروءة فكل من يقدر على شيءٍ سمحت به نفسه 

    يعطيه فنأخذ من كل إنسان على قدر حاله فإن الأمر إذا كان كذلك تأتي إلينا 

    الخلائق والذي يكون غنياً يعطي على قدر مقامه والذي يكون فقيراً يعطي على 
    قدر ما تسمح به نفسه فإذا كان الأمر كذلك يدور الحمام ويبقى له شأن عظيم 
    وأما الألف دينار فإنها عطية الملك ولا يقدر عليها كل أحد فصدق عليه أكابر
    الدولة وقالوا له: هذا هو الحق يا ملك الزمان أتحسب أن الناس كلهم مثلك 
    أيها الملك العزيز قال الملك: إن كلامكم صحيحٌ ولكن هذا الرجل غريب فقيراً 
        وإكرامه واجبٌ علينا فإنه عمل في مدينتنا هذا الحمام الذي عمرنا ما رأينا 
    مثله ولا تزينت مدينتنا وصار لها شأن إلا به فإذا أكرمناه بزيادة الأجرة ما 
        هو كثير.
فقالوا له: إذا كنت تكرمه فأكرمه من مالك وإكرام الفقير من الملك بقلة أجرة الحمام لأجل أن يدعو لك الرعية وأما الألف دينار فنحن أكابر دولتك ولا تسمح     أنفسنا بعطائها فكيف تسمح بذلك نفوس الفقراء؟

Thank you


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## Hagar || هاجر

I think they mean himself and ourselves. 
نفس، ذات = self.


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## Interprete

Thanks, but are you sure? I think nafs can have many meanings, and here it doesn't really match... maybe it is a set phrase?
And notice how for the rich is invited to give "3ala qadri maqamih" whereas the poor is invited to give "3ala qadr ma tasma7 bihi nafsuh"... why this difference in phrasing?


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## Hagar || هاجر

Well, I am not sure how to explain it. The writer wrote "maqamih," with rich people because rich people can be so very rich, very rich or rich. So "maqam," means the status of richness or something like that. 

When I say I am talking about myself = أنا أتحدث عن نفسي
He is talking about himself = هو يحدث عن نفسه
We are talking about ourselves = نحن نتحدث عن أنفسنا 
and so on.

I hope you understand it better now.


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## Interprete

Thanks for having a go at it 
I understand your point, but your examples are different from the way nafs is used here, hence my doubts...
But thanks anyway!


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## PlanC

Interprete said:


> And notice how for the rich is invited to give "*3ala qadri maqamih*" whereas the poor is invited to give "*3ala qadr ma tasma7 bihi nafsuh*"... why this difference in phrasing?


Good question!
*3ala qadri maqamih : *to incite the rich people to be generous referring to their social and economic statue.
*3ala qadr ma tasma7 bihi nafsuh */or* 3ala qadri el moustata3:  *It said this way to avoid embarassing the needy people when they donate*.* 
Another example in which this type of kindness in speech is substantially observed and which respects the donor circumstances appears in the Quran: 
لينفق *ذو سعة من سعته* و*من قدر عليه رزقه* فلينفق *مما آتاه الله لا* يكلف الله نفسا إلا ما آتاها


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## Interprete

Thank you PlanC!
But then when you say ma tasma7 bihi nafsuh, what kind of connotation does nafs have? Does it refer to someone's generosity, or something else? what my 'nafs' allows me = my generosity? my condition? my reason?

Thanks


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## PlanC

The connotation varies according to the financial and social position of the doer, 





> what my 'nafs' allows me = my generosity? my condition? my reason?


my capability and aptness - _selon mes ressources /selon mes moyens ou selon le capital dont je dispose / ma bourse...etc_


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## Hagar || هاجر

Ok, I will try to explain it in another way.

Example,
A (female): please sir, give me some money.
B (male): how much money do you want?
A: give me " ma tasma7 bihi nafsuk."

In this example A wants B to give her the amount of money that he could afford. Because if A asked B to give her 50$, maybe B wouldn't be able to give her that money, so she tells B that he can let نفسه(himself) think about the amount of money that he can give to her and she will accept it.

I hope this helps.


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## Interprete

Thank you both! So 'ma tsma7 bihi nafsuk' is simply a set phrase that means, 'whatever you can afford'? And I should just memorise it as such?


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## PlanC

Hagar || هاجر said:


> Ok, I will try to explain it in another way.
> 
> Example,
> A (female): please sir, give me some money.
> B (male): how much money do you want?
> A: give me " ma tasma7 bihi nafsuk."
> 
> In this example A wants B to give her the amount of money that he could afford. Because if A asked B to give her 50$, maybe B wouldn't be able to give her that money, so she tells B that he can let نفسه(himself) think about the amount of money that he can give to her and she will accept it.
> 
> I hope this helps.


Yes it's a fine explanation, however when it is about الزكــاة for example, collecting the funds becomes neutral (it is not personal anymore, and this is what *Interprete* connotes in the 7th post) , thus the amount has to be calculated then, standardized according an "Average" to suit every family, However the act of donation, Always remains subjective and depends on how greedy or generous the person giving the money is.


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## Hagar || هاجر

@Interprete, If you are talking about giving money, then yes. However, you can use this expression in many cases:


كيف سمحت لك نفسك بالكذب عليّ؟ How did yourself allowed you to lie to me?
هو شخص جيد لذلك لن يسمح لنفسه بأخذ الرشوة, He is a good person, so he won't let himself take the bribe.
and so on

@PlanC, Yes, I agree.


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## Interprete

Thank you!
One last question if you don't mind, in your last example:


> هو شخص جيد لذلك لن يسمح لنفسه بأخذ الرشوة, He is a good person, so he won't let himself take the bribe.


To be closer to the original example, would it be possible to say : 
? هو شخص جيد لذلك لن تسمح له نفسه بأخذ الرشوة

Then that would be exactly the way it is used in the text I first posted.

Thanks!


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## Hagar || هاجر

Yes, it would be perfect, and very smart.


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## Bakr

Hagar || هاجر said:


> I think they mean himself and ourselves.
> نفس، ذات = self.


أتفق مع هذه الفكرة
Moi-même, Toi-Même..etc


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## Arabic_Police_999

Interprete said:


> Thanks, but are you sure? *I think nafs can have many meanings, and here it doesn't really match... maybe it is a set phrase?*
> And notice how for the rich is invited to give "3ala qadri maqamih" whereas the poor is invited to give "3ala qadr ma tasma7 bihi nafsuh"... why this difference in phrasing?



no I think they do match
 فكل من يقدر على شيءٍ سمحت به نفسه 
so anyone whose  self permits him to do something he can

يعطي على قدر ما تسمح به نفسه
giving as much as his own self permits

 ولا تسمح أنفسنا
our own selves can't let us do that, ourselves doesn't permit to

the sentence نفسي لا تسمح used more like in the one in this meaning
A:do that
B: I will do it, but *the-self-of-me/my sentiment* doesn't permit me; tells me not to do it


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## Interprete

So then it would mean 'conscience' rather than just self?


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## Arabic_Police_999

Interprete said:


> So then it would mean 'conscience' rather than just self?



conscience & sentiment is closer to ضمير in term of meaning
نفس, in Arabic is the inner you, the thing inside you that gives you the ability to do things, 
generally each نفس is concerned about what's good for its being
like if you are poor and someone gives you money but you refused because you don't want to feel humilated, people would say
*نفسه عزيزة*, literally,*his self is noble/preciouse,* indicating that his self didn't allow(permit) him to do that (a rich person wouldn't beg in the street)
and you would say نفسي عزيزة or *نفسي لا تسمح بذلك*: *my self did not allow(permit) me to do that*
I hope that helps you to get the meaning


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## Interprete

Thank you
yes very useful explanation
I don't know in English but in French it would then be 'conscience', that's exactly what you described in your examples at least.
But then this leads me to another question (the exact difference between nafs and dameer, since I think we only have one word in French for both ideas).


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## Arabic_Police_999

each one of us had ضمير dameer, the thing that tells us what's right and wrong
but we tend to listen to نفس which tells us to do the good things mostly,or to do what's better for our beings
it could be used in a good way like the example I gave
or it could mean all what I care about is *my self*(not *myself *as the difference between *his self *and *himself*)
like when you are with friends and someone did something very bad &  police come and stuff get really serious
you might say to your freind, آسف والله بس نفسي, I'm really sorry but my self( I'm going to listen to my نفس, I'm not with you guys, "نفس is concerned about what's good for its being")
I hope that helps


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## PlanC

النفس Est plus relative à notre psychisme, notre ego, الأنا donc toutes nos décisions qui suscitent une réflexion subjective, sont soumises a cette entité, à cet ensemble de facteurs conscients ou/et inconscients, cela dit, le fait de donner à l'autre en considérant cet élément influençant est toujours mitigé: un exemple qui me vient a l'esprit :  فطوعت (سولت) له نفسه قتل أخيه    
Donc النفس est le plus souvent, reliée a cette notion péjorative, malgré ses autres nuances qui ne sont pas purement sémantique et qui peuvent etre différentes selon le contexte, et en poussant plus loin la définition, le Coran défini trois types de _'nefs'_: النفس المطمئنة والنفس اللوامة والنفس الأمارة بالسوء
En reprenant votre texte:
اجعل الأجرة بالمروءة فكل من يقدر على شيءٍ سمحت به نفسه
تعني الملكية  التامة للشيء

والذي يكون فقيراً يعطي على
قدر ما تسمح به نفسه (قدر حاله

فنحن أكابر دولتك ولا تسمح أنفسنا بعطائها فكيف تسمح 
(un mélange d'arrogance et de possessivité) ....comment oseront-t'ils (ceux qui sont plus démunis)...

Alors que la conscience الضمير est un ensemble de concepts plus constructives est évolués sur le plan morale et éthique الضمير en arabe implique l'application d'une auto projection sur ce qui est bon et juste.


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