# Она была у себя целый день



## wonlon

This is a translation exercise.

 Questions: *She stayed at home for a whole day. (free translation from Chinese.)
*
 The reference answer: Она была у себя целый день.
 My answer: Она осталась дома целый день.

 Translations can be many, but I want to see if mine is okay (any strange sense or wrong grammar), too.

 Thanks for your help.


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## morzh

Either answer is good.

In your answer I would change "oсталась" for "оставалась", or "была".

Она была дома весь день / она оставалась дома целый день.

You can also use "осталась" but then it is better with "на":

Она осталась дома на целый день.

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The reference is also correct, but it is more colloquial, I think.

"У себя" means "at her place", but the thing is, it may mean "her office", "her house / home", "her room". So unless the context is provided, the "дома" is less ambiguous.


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## wonlon

morzh said:


> You can also use "осталась" but then it is better with "на":
> 
> Она осталась дома на целый день.



What would be the difference between imperfective and perfective here?
And why if perfective, use "на"?


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## wonlon

morzh said:


> "У себя" means "at her place", but the thing is, it may mean "her office", "her house / home", "her room". So unless the context is provided, the "дома" is less ambiguous.



I have wondered for a long time what this construction is about. "У себя, меня..., etc.", as I see from grammar books, means "at one's place." I asked "what is it???"
And at his (own) office may be rendered "у себя в кабинете", why isn't it "в его кабинете"?


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## morzh

Difference: In this context (Obviously the context is about "today"). "Оставалась" means "she was staying at home" (but she is not necessarily there). "Осталась" means "She stayed at home, and she is still there".
If it was in the past, then "оставалась дома" would imply repeated action, and "осталась" - single occasion.


Why "на"? Because I think "остаться" requires "на сколько времени", and  "оставаться" in this particular context requires "сколько времени".

Я остался у них на два дня.
Я оставался у них два дня.


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## morzh

wonlon said:


> "у себ*я* в кабинете", why isn't it "в его кабинете"?



if you understand the concept of "себя" - try to answer it first yourself.
Then I will give you my answer.


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## Rosett

wonlon said:


> What would be the difference between imperfective and perfective here?
> And why if perfective, use "на"?


Она оставалась дома на целый день - тоже правильно. Смысл может быть тот же или несколько иной: например, если она делала это несколько или много раз в течение какого-то времени.


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## wonlon

Rosett said:


> Она оставалась дома на целый день - тоже правильно. Смысл может быть тот же или несколько иной: например, если она делала это несколько или много раз в течение какого-то времени.


My Russian is still elementary.

I guess you mean
"the meaning can be the same or slightly different. For example, she did this a few or many times during the period."

But Morzh idea here seems sufficient:
 "Оставалась" means "she was staying at home" (but she is not  necessarily there). "Осталась" means "She stayed at home, and she is  still there".

since repeatly entering the house in one day is not quite sensible.

By the way, I still need to build up the sense of imperfective and perfective.


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## ARGON_24

A perfective verb in Russian is similar to perfect times in English - we are interested in result, the action is finished, and imperfective verb means some kind of a process.


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## morzh

ARGON_24 said:


> A perfective verb in Russian is similar to perfect times in English - we are interested in result, the action is finished, and imperfective verb means some kind of a process.



It's a bit more complex, considering the existence of formally separate continuous / simple present in English and the formal absence of such in Russian.
So imperfect verb may mean both a process (continuous - я сегодня остаюсь дома - I will be staying at home today), and a repeated action, which is not really a process (я остаюсь дома каждый вторник - I stay home every Tuesday).

So the same imperfect verb may stand for continuous and for simple present.


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## wonlon

morzh said:


> if you understand the concept of "себя" - try to answer it first yourself.
> Then I will give you my answer.



1. себя is a reflexive pronoun. When the object and the subject is the same, себя is used to represent the object.

2. As I read from a blog, Russians say "Я нёс свою ручку.", but not "Я нёс мою ручку." (otherwise it is not standard.)

3. It seems a habit of Russians to use two units "у себ*я"* and "в кабинете" to represent "his office". They like using "у..." (at his place) but it looks ambiguous, so adding "в кабинете".


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## ARGON_24

morzh said:


> It's a bit more complex, considering the existence of formally separate continuous / simple present in English and the formal absence of such in Russian.
> So imperfect verb may mean both a process (continuous - я сегодня остаюсь дома - I will be staying at home today), and a repeated action, which is not really a process (я остаюсь дома каждый вторник - I stay home every Tuesday).
> 
> So the same imperfect verb may stand for continuous and for simple present.



but not perfect, if i'm not mistaken


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## wonlon

ARGON_24 said:


> but not perfect, if i'm not mistaken



"I have stayed in the house." may be rendered in Russian in imperfective.
 Here this is present perfect in English, which refers to past experience up to now / past event related to now. The action can be continous or specific one-time action.

So I think it is diffcult to clearly define the full boundary about imperfective stand for what. The context is important.


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## ARGON_24

wonlon said:


> "I have stayed in the house." may be rendered in Russian in imperfective.
> Here this is present perfect in English, which refers to past experience up to now / past event related to now. The action can be continous or specific one-time action.
> 
> So I think it is diffcult to clearly define the full boundary about imperfective stand for what. The context is important.



My English is not excellent but "I have stayed in the house" i'd translate as Я остался дома( что сделал? )
Give me please your translation of this phrase with imperfectiveverb.


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## morzh

Perfect is usually perfect everywhere. (I have to think if there are exceptions).
Yes, there are some, but they are not simplistic, and relate to stable forms, that translate using other forms.

"Ну, я поехал" - "well, I am going to go". In this expression perfect form does not mean finalized action.


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## wonlon

ARGON_24 said:


> My English is not excellent but "I have stayed in the house" i'd translate as Я остался дома( что сделал? )
> Give me please your translation of this phrase with imperfectiveverb.



Just use the example from this thread:
она оставалась дома целый день.
Depending on the context, you can translate it into "She was staying at home for a whole day." or "She has stayed at home for a whole day."

It's only my opinion.


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## morzh

This is the reverse order - ARGON meant Russian perfect translated back to English.


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## ARGON_24

wonlon said:


> Just use the example from this thread:
> она оставалась дома целый день.
> Depending on the context, you can translate it into "She was staying at home for a whole day." or "She has stayed at home for a whole day."
> 
> It's only my opinion.



Morzh, как Вы думаете, можно перевести "She has stayed at home for a whole day" как "Она оставалась дома целый день"
Я бы все-таки предпочел перевод "Она осталась дома на целый день". Хотя... в итоге, разница не такая уж и большая...


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## morzh

ARGON_24 said:


> Morzh, как Вы думаете, можно перевести "She has stayed at home for a whole day" как "Она оставалась дома целый день"
> Я бы все-таки предпочел перевод "Она осталась дома на целый день". Хотя... в итоге, разница не такая уж и большая...



I would translate it so the "perfection" would be the same. 
So you're right, "она оставалась" is "she was staying" and "она осталась" is "she's stayed".

But: in this context (spoken of today events) informatively there's no difference.

Example:

- Что дочка сегодня делала?
- Она оставалась дома целый день.

-  Что дочка сегодня делала?
- Она осталась дома на целый день.

The meaning is the same. But, again, when translating, the perfection type is better to be observed.


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## Rosett

wonlon said:


> "the meaning can be the same or slightly different. For example, she did this a few or many times during the period."
> 
> But Morzh idea here seems sufficient:
> "Оставалась" means "she was staying at home" (but she is not necessarily there). "Осталась" means "She stayed at home, and she is still there".
> 
> since repeatly entering the house in one day is not quite sensible.
> 
> By the way, I still need to build up the sense of imperfective and perfective.


1. Она осталась дома на целый день 
2. Она оставалась дома целый день 
3. Она оставалась дома на целый день 

Все эти 3 конструкции правильны  и могут передавать одну и ту же мысль - она была дома на протяжении дня.

Конструкция:
4. Она осталась дома целый день 
неправильна.


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