# fig sign



## Encolpius

Hello, there isn't even a word for that in English, but it is a gesture made by fingers. I was really surprised when I found it existed in *Portuguese *as well as *Hungarian*. 

1) Do you use this gesture? What does it mean?
2) What do you call it? What verbal collocations do you use? 

Thanks. 

*Hungarian*: 
1) We use it and it means something offensive, something like nothing, shit. 
2) We call it *füge *(literally fig) or its derivative, more common *fityisz*. We use it with verbs kap [to get (nothing, shit)] and mutat (to show).


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## ilocas2

No, in the Czech republic we don't use it. At least I don't know about it.


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## phosphore

Here that gesture means "I'm not giving you anything" or "There's nothing here for you". It is called "šipak" which otherwise means "dog rose". This name is used in speech too without a reference to the gesture itself.

Pokazao mi je šipak=He showed me "šipak"=He told me he had nothing for me (he probably didn't really make the gesture)

Kad ja tamo, a ono šipak!=I realised that wasn't what I expected as soon as I got there (no gesture at all)


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## enoo

To my knowledge, it does not exist in France. 

(In the best case, it looks like the position of the hand on the "hey look, I stole your nose!" joke that adults do to little kids  - the bit of thumb being the 'stolen nose')


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## apmoy70

We do not use this gesture in Greece. We have our own "fig sign", which is this (and is considered offensive):
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6582/singlemoutza.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/262/doublemoutza.jpg
We call it «μούτζα» ('mutza, _f._) or «μούντζα» ('muntza, _f._). The origin of the gesture can be traced back to the penal code of Byzantium, whereby a chained criminal was paraded around town sitting, facing backwards, on a donkey and with their face smeared with cinder to enhance their ridicule. Cinder in medieval Greek was called «μοῦτζος» ('mutzos, _m._), «μοῦζος» ('muzos, _m._), or «μοῦντζος» ('muntzos, _m._), of unknown etymology (some philologists suggest that it might be a Persian loanword: _muzh_). And, because cinder was wiped on the person's face first by collecting it in the palm and then by extending open the fingers, the gesture itself became insulting, to be known as «μούτζα», after the name of the material applied


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## Rallino

We *DO* use this gesture really often hahaha 

It means like: _F..k off! you're not getting anything! _

The gesture is called: *NAH !

*To show that gesture is: _nah çekmek_.


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## Encolpius

Since you are closer to Greece, just to be sure, do you use the Hungarian fig sign or the Greek one?


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## Rallino

Oh I hadn't noticed the Greek one. No. We use the very Hungarian one


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## Encolpius

Amazing! Thanks.


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## jazyk

apmoy70 said:


> We do not use this gesture in Greece. We have our own "fig sign", which is this (and is considered offensive):
> http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6582/singlemoutza.jpg
> http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/262/doublemoutza.jpg


This looks dangerous. It is how I would express five items anywhere in the world. Good to know I shouldn't use it in Greek.


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## The Machine of Zhu

It's not very common in Flanders, I'd say, but it does exist and it has the same meaning as "šipak" in Serbian. It can also mean "fuck off." 

But as far as I know, it's not widely used today, if it's used at all.


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## werrr

ilocas2 said:


> No, in the Czech Republic we don't use it.


But in the Czech Kingdom it used to be a well-known sign of derision. Old Czech chronicles are full of references to it (see fík, cíbek, pipek). Any student of Czech history or any reader of Czech historical noveles (Jirásek, Winter, Třebízský, Čech…) should be familar with it.


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## Frank78

enoo said:


> To my knowledge, it does not exist in France.
> 
> (In the best case, it looks like the position of the hand on the "hey look, I stole your nose!" joke that adults do to little kids  - the bit of thumb being the 'stolen nose')



Same in Germany. My grandpa always did that with me when I was a little child.


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## bibax

Sometimes my friends use that gesture, it means the same as in Hungary (I'll give you nothing). We call it hundsdrek or kuťogumi.


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## rusita preciosa

phosphore said:


> Here that gesture means "I'm not giving you anything" or "There's nothing here for you".


Exactly the same in Russia. It is not rude or obsene, kids use it. Like in Hungarian, it is called *фиг* /fig/, same as figue the fruit. Both the gesture and the word are used widely.


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## Encolpius

Thank you all, it's getting more and more interesting.


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## ilocas2

bibax said:


> Sometimes my friends use that gesture, it means the same as in Hungary (I'll give you nothing). We call it hundsdrek or kuťogumi.


 
It's suspicious. Google gives no hits for "hundsdrek" or "kuťogumi" in Czech.


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## Encolpius

I found it suspicious, too. There must be great Hungarian influence. Kuťogumi is of the Hungarian kutyagumi [dog+rubber].


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## apmoy70

jazyk said:


> This looks dangerous. It is how I would express  five items anywhere in the world. Good to know I shouldn't use it in  Greek.


Well, it is an offensive gesture after all, don't do  it when visit here or you'll be in trouble (just kidding); we show Nr five like  the rest of the world does, with the difference that _our_ _palm is  facing_ _toward us_


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## Encolpius

Very interesting, (off-topic) although I am a little bit perplexed but I think you can show your palm facing and not facing in Hungary when you want to show the number five. I would, anyway.


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## apmoy70

Sorry, I meant _our inner  hand palm_ is turned toward us, is facing us


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## Outsider

Encolpius said:


> 1) Do you use this gesture? What does it mean?
> 2) What do you call it? What verbal collocations do you use?


Although the gesture exists in the Portuguese-speaking world, the meaning is quite different, at least in Portugal. It's somewhat like knocking on wood, a way to ward off bad luck.

One way to say "I'm rooting for you" is _Estou a fazer figas por ti_.


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## itreius

Croatian

_držim ti *fige*_ - (I'm holding/doing the fig sign for you) ~ "I wish you luck" or (just as Outsider said for Portuguese) "I'm rooting for you".

By slightly changing the context, its meaning can become one of doubt or just a negative opinion of something.


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## Outsider

itreius said:


> By slightly changing the context, its meaning can become one of doubt or just a negative opinion of something.


Yes, in Portuguese too! _____ de uma figa_ is generally negative. 



apmoy70 said:


> We do not use this gesture in Greece. We have our own "fig sign", which is this (and is considered offensive):
> http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6582/singlemoutza.jpg
> http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/262/doublemoutza.jpg


I'm guessing that the gesture must appear to be directed at someone's face (as though you were about to throw an imaginary pie in their face), in order to be understood as offensive. Am I right?


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## apmoy70

Yes, you're right. It's the most common gesture between angry drivers


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## Thomas1

Encolpius said:


> 1) Do you use this gesture? What does it mean?
> 2) What do you call it? What verbal collocations do you use?


1) Yes, we use it, but it's not very common in  my experience, (I guess because it's rude). It means no way, nothing.
2) We call it: figa (fig), figa z makiem (fig with poppy seed), figa z makiem z pasternakiem (fig with poppy seed with parsnip). The second one is what I come across the most often.too
We use it as a stand alone reaction to something the most frequently. I know you can use it with 'być (to be): figa z tego była -- nic z tego nie było -- there was nothing (out) of it. There is also 'pokazać figę' (to show a fig), which is quite rare (to me) and has a slightly different meanig: to give nothing, approximately to stand someone up, there's nothing here for you.

EDIT: A much more common gesture is this. It is attendant with the following wording "takiego wała" ('up yours', PWN), very often the phrase is used alone. Its meanig is very similar to 'pokazać figę' and it is very rude, but more frequent. It is used more often, I guess, because it has its history: Władysław Kozakiewicz, Polish pole-vaulter, showed it at the Summer Olympics in Moscow in the early 80's, times of communism in Poland and Russia, to the Russian spectators who were booing and whistling at him right after he'd won the gold. It is sometimes called 'gest Kozakiewicza' (Kozakiewicz's gesture). Here is more on Polish gestures for those knowing Polish.


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## ThomasK

Unknown to me in Belgium. But I suddenly wonder: could there be a link with the _f..._ word ? Nowadays the gesture would be showing the middlefinger, I guess...


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## Rallino

Well in Turkish it's certainly a reference to one's penis between two legs. The meaning is sort of: _You're not getting anything; you can rather take my cock._ Or something of that nature.

_P.S.  Girls  use it too  _


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> Unknown to me in Belgium. But I suddenly wonder: could there be a link with the _f..._ word ? Nowadays the gesture would be showing the middlefinger, I guess...



I am nout sure what people who use things like that use nowadays, but the American F-gesture was not popular before and yes, the fig sign also could means something like that in Hungarian. The origin, if I am not mistaken, of the fig is the Italian fica which means cunt.  Too bad we haven't had any Italian comments here.


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## ElFrikiChino

I havent' read all the replies, but I haven't seen any poster whose language is Italian either.
In Italy you can see this gesture only when parents/adults are playing with children. When I was a child practically every adult I knew did that trick to me. Basically an adult says to a child: "I'm gonna steal your nose" (or "If you keep beaving badly, I'l lsteal your nose"), then touches the child's nose and then does that gesture. The thumb, hidden among the other fingers, represents the stolen nose. After a while when the kid cried a bit, acted worried because he actually thinks his nose has been stolen (or if it was a threat, after the kid came back to normal behavior), the adult gives the nose back to the child who is now relaxed and happy


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## Encolpius

Very very interesting some nations use the "fig sign" for the stolen nose. I wonder what we use(d) for that.


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## Rallino

We also have that _nose-stealing joke_. The only difference is that the adult doesn't place his thumb between his index and middle finger. ^^


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## sokol

Nothing like that is used in Austria, but those who travel to Mediterranean countries might know and understand it.

I didn't know that it is also used in Hungarian - and I'm curious what exactly the fig sign does mean in Hungarian. (You haven't mentioned that, or have you, Encolp? ;-)


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## phosphore

itreius said:


> Croatian
> 
> _držim ti *fige*_ - (I'm holding/doing the fig sign for you) ~ "I wish you luck" or (just as Outsider said for Portuguese) "I'm rooting for you".
> 
> By slightly changing the context, its meaning can become one of doubt or just a negative opinion of something.


 
But it's not exactly the same sign, is it? The one you are talking about is made with both hands as far as I know.


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## Angel.Aura

Hi all,
I was about to answer that no, in Italy that gesture is not common at all.
But I didn't think about this:


ElFrikiChino said:


> In Italy you can see this gesture only when parents/adults are playing with children. When I was a child practically every adult I knew did that trick to me. Basically an adult says to a child: "I'm gonna steal your nose" (or "If you keep beaving badly, I'l lsteal your nose"), then touches the child's nose and then does that gesture. The thumb, hidden among the other fingers, represents the stolen nose.


EFC said it all!


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## Encolpius

sokol said:


> ... I didn't know that it is also used in Hungarian - and I'm curious what exactly the fig sign does mean in Hungarian. (You haven't mentioned that, or have you, Encolp? ;-)



And I was quite surprised you neighbours do not know it. I mentioned it meant: nothing. I checked the Duden and found: nicht die Bohne, but of course it is the word only, not the gesture.


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## ThomasK

EFC pointed out something I suddenly remember as well, that kind of practical nose-stealing joke. Thanks, I feel younger again...


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## bibax

I had that gesture always associated with the Hungarian word kutyagumi which means Hundsdreck (or Hundedreck?), dog muck - a synonymum for "nothing" (like Katzendreck).


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## Encolpius

Well, *figa z makiem* is used in Poland, and *figa borová* in Slovakia. I wonder where to find the frontier (Bohemia-Moravia?) where the gesture ends. It is used in Russia, too. Or maybe there is some Slovak influence among some Czech users. I'll soon ask my colleagues from Prague.


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## rusita preciosa

Encolpius said:


> *figa z makiem* is used in Poland


That made me remember that in Russian we sometimes say 
*фиг *(or *фига*) *c маслом */fig (figa) s maslom/ - fig with butter (a fig even more "fig-ish" than the simple fig) .
 
Does *makiem* in Polish mean butter?


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## Encolpius

Wow, amazing

Slovak: figu borovú / drevenú (more common in accusative; "pine/wood fig")
Polish: figa z makiem ("fig with poppy seed)
Russian: фиг / фига c маслом
Ukrainian: ????

According to the dictionary in Slovak also: šušku borovú (ie.: nothing)
And how about the Russian: кукиш?


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## rusita preciosa

Encolpius said:


> And how about the Russian: кукиш /kukish/?


Yes, I forgot about that one! I think is a bit old-fashioned compared to *fig*, but still used (including "with butter")


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## Selyd

Вітаю!
Russian: фиг / фига c маслом
*Ukrainian*: ????
Ми кажемо - Дулю з маком!
Слово *хвига* занято (фига) -
по-русски инжир.


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## Encolpius

Welcome here, really very interesting comment. I checked дуля to find what it means in general and found some kind of *pear*. Is that usage obsolete already? What do you say дуля (pear) in Russian or English? Thanks.
PS: Feel free to participate in other topics of mine in All languages.


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## Selyd

In Ukrainian have:
1. sweet pear
2. фига (кукиш)
3. bread on wedding


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## miguel89

ElFrikiChino said:


> In Italy you can see this gesture only when parents/adults are playing with children. When I was a child practically every adult I knew did that trick to me. Basically an adult says to a child: "I'm gonna steal your nose" (or "If you keep beaving badly, I'l lsteal your nose"), then touches the child's nose and then does that gesture.


This is its main use in Argentina as well.

I've also seen its used meaning "fuck off". There's a variant of this that is harsher, in which you pretend to bite your thumb before showing the fist to the other person. It has no specific name that I know of.


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