# Who is LatinAmerica for you ?



## Miguelillo 87

Hi everybody, I had been arguing  in this forum of the name Latin-American, about which countries compound the term , and now I was wondering ,  people according to you Which countries compound Latin America? 
For me LATINAMERICA is compound of, Mexico, all Centro American countries, Venezuela, Colombia, Guyana and French Guyana, Suriname, Brazil, Argentina ,Chile, Peru, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador and Bolivia, Some persons said that Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and all the islands of the Caribbean are Latin America too for me this is the Caribbean  not Latin America. And for my surprise some say that Canada specially Quebec are Latin-Americans TOO!!!!! So Which countries are Latin America for you?
I would like to know the opinion of all the persons of the worlds Russia, Japan, China, England, Italy ,Egypt… 
Thank you very much


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## french4beth

Good question - I would say: Mexico, Central America, most of South America, and predominantly Spanish-speaking areas of the Caribbean.


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## Insider

I suppose it's the countries of Central America, South America, Spanish-speaking islands and Mexico.


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## tigger_uhuhu

Hey. Miguelillo!
Here, here or here.
Creo que se ha hablado mucho de quién, cómo, dónde y qué es América sin llegar a nada concreto


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## Miguelillo 87

tigger_uhuhu said:
			
		

> Hey. Miguelillo!
> Here, here or here.
> Creo que se ha hablado mucho de quién, cómo, dónde y qué es América sin llegar a nada concreto


Tigger as a metter of fact I don't want anithyng concreto, I WOULDLIKE THE OPINION OF EVERYBODY. I just wantto realize how different id the view of diferent countries about what we called Latin America


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## Miguelillo 87

french4beth said:
			
		

> Good question - I would say: Mexico, Central America, *most* of South America, and predominantly Spanish-speaking areas of the Caribbean.


Who is most?
So the islands where soanish is not spoken you divides as Caribbean or as what?


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## rocioteag

Creo que el témino Latinoamérica tiene mas que ver con el origen de la lengua que con otra cosa, por lo que los paises que hablen lenguas romances (derivadas del latin, como francés, portugués, español e italiano), que se encuentren en América, son Latinoamericanas.

El caso de Quebec es excepcional, pero Quebec es una region (¿o estado? ) de Canadá, y Canadá es un País preponderantemente de habla Inglesa. Belice tambien es una excepción, lo mismo que Surinam.

En cuanto a Puerto Rico, creo que no es un país, sino un estado independiente de los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica, lo cual lo equipara un poco a Quebec.

En fin, tan solo una opinión.


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## Miguelillo 87

Rocio, Quebec it'a a region of Canada which is consideret it as Francophone, About Puerto Ricoalthougt it's a part of EE.UU but they have Latin Blood. Well I think so.


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## rocioteag

Miguelillo, you are right (I have some doubts, thanks for correct me).

But the point is that those regions are part of a Country, not a country by themselves, that is why they are not considered part of Latin America.


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## vince

nadie diría que quebec es latino-americano pero esto se debe al hecho de que
 está tan lejos del resto del mundo latin-americano.

no sé que decir acerca de lo de las ex-colonias del Reino Unido y las de los Paises Bajos.

sin embargo diría que Puerto Rico sí es latinoamericano.


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## Miguelillo 87

vince said:
			
		

> nadie diría que quebec es latino-americano pero esto se debe al hecho de que
> está tan lejos del resto del mundo latin-americano.
> 
> no sé que decir acerca de lo de las ex-colonias del Reino Unido y las de los Paises Bajos.
> 
> sin embargo diría que Puerto Rico sí es latinoamericano.


Al fin un ¡¡¡¡¡¡canadiense!!!!!! Lo que pasa es que he estadodiscutienod horrores de que Canadá no es Latino(americano) por las mismas razones que tú has señalado,al igual porque su cultura,raices etc son muy diferentes a los llamados países latinoamericanos, Pero quería saber que opinaba su gente, entonces Uds canadienses no se sienten Latinoaméricanos ¿O SÍ ?


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## Etcetera

Miguelillo 87 said:
			
		

> For me LATINAMERICA is compound of, Mexico, all Centro American countries, Venezuela, Colombia, Guyana and French Guyana, Suriname, Brazil, Argentina ,Chile, Peru, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador and Bolivia.


Same for me. 



> Some persons said that Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and all the islands of the Caribbean are Latin America too for me this is the Caribbean  not Latin America.


Frankly, I didn't think about whether or not we can call Jamaica and Haiti Latin America or not, but in recent months, as I've grown more and more interested in the Caribbean (guess why?), I clearly distinguish this region from Latin America as such. 



> And for my surprise some say that Canada specially Quebec are Latin-Americans TOO!!!!!


Now, that's really nice.


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## Miguelillo 87

Thank you etcetera 4 your answer. And I'm glad to see that we have almost the same opinion


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## vince

Miguelillo 87 said:
			
		

> Al fin un ¡¡¡¡¡¡canadiense!!!!!! Lo que pasa es que he estadodiscutienod horrores de que Canadá no es Latino(americano) por las mismas razones que tú has señalado,al igual porque su cultura,raices etc son muy diferentes a los llamados países latinoamericanos, Pero quería saber que opinaba su gente, entonces Uds canadienses no se sienten Latinoaméricanos ¿O SÍ ?



Tienes que entender que Quebec (y una parte de Nuevo Brunswick) son las únicas regiones en nuestro país que tienen raices latinas. Vivo en Ontario, y aquí, nuestra cultura es la misma que la de EEUU.

Si uno pregunta a los Québécois, te dirían que se sienten más "europeos" que "latinoamericanos". Para la mayoría de la gente en América del Norte, latinoamericano les hace pensar a las playas y lugares tropicales. (Aunque según este definición, la Patagonia y la Tierra del Fuego no son latinoamericanas jeje)


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## justjukka

When my mind's eye glances at Latin America, it sees an area ranging from Mexico to the latitude of Ecuador, though for me it still includes Chile.  When I have to actually look at the geographic classification, then it's detailed.


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## Miguelillo 87

Vince, Muchas gracias por esa aclaración , quería saber cual era el punto de vista de Uds., y quién mejor para decírmelo que alguien que está tan cerca de ellos. 
 
Also I have to say That almost ll the world has the image of beauty beaches and hot people when you speak about Latin America, so I think this stereotype doesn’t fit for Canada.


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## ampurdan

This stereotype doesn't fit either for Chile, most part of Peru, Bolivia and Argentina I guess (and maybe other countries)...

If you want my opinion, I've always counted Cuba and Santo Domingo as Latin America. I'm surprised to read now that some people may think they are not part of it. As a matter of fact, I would count also Puerto Rico. Maybe Florida and California could be counted, but certainly not New York, no matter how many so-called "latinos" live there. Florida and California were once under the power of the Spanish Monarchs and preserve some toponymy and New York does not.

The expression "Latin America" was first used by the French after the Independency wars in order to claim cultural (and political) ascendency above the countries to which this expression applied and against any anglo-saxon claim. Althought Quebec had been once under the scope of French interests, by that time, Quebec was clearly a part of the British Impire to which France had completely renounced. Nobody used "Latin America" referring to Quebec.


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## polaco

ampurdan said:
			
		

> This stereotype doesn't fit either for Chile, most part of Peru, Bolivia and Argentina I guess (and maybe other countries)...
> 
> If you want my opinion, I've always counted Cuba and Santo Domingo as Latin America. I'm surprised to read now that some people may think they are not part of it. As a matter of fact, I would count also Puerto Rico. Maybe Florida and California could be counted, but certainly not New York, no matter how many so-called "latinos" live there. Florida and California were once under the power of the Spanish Monarchs and preserve some toponymy and New York does not.
> 
> The expression "Latin America" was first used by the French after the Independency wars in order to claim cultural (and political) ascendency above the countries to which this expression applied and against any anglo-saxon claim. Althought Quebec had been once under the scope of French interests, by that time, Quebec was clearly a part of the British Impire to which France had completely renounced. Nobody used "Latin America" referring to Quebec.


 

Hi,
As for me all countries in America where spanish and portuguese is spoken form America Latina. That inculdes parts of Carribbean too.
Saludos


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## Miguelillo 87

ampurdan said:
			
		

> . Nobody used "Latin America" referring to Quebec.


You will be surprised how many people claim that Quebec it’s Latin-American , and this people is form Spain too!!!!! Different point of view from the same country, ,mhh interesting ,isn’t it?


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## ampurdan

Nobody used to.


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## danielfranco

I'd think that Latin America is every country except the USA, Canada, and the Virgin Islands. I mean, if you guys want to include Quebec because they speak French, then you might as well throw in there New Orleans, some parts of Arizona, some parts of Texas, some parts of...


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## Miguelillo 87

Wel Daniel franco that’s my point we ‘re speaking about Latin American Countries not regions


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## mora

Hello

Although French is spoken by a majority of people in Quebec, French is an official language in ALL of Canada, and French is spoken in ALL parts of the country, so it is incorrect to characterize Canada as an English speaking country outside of Quebec. 

In my opinion neither Canada not the USA are part of Latin America, despite 40 million Spanish-speaking people in the US. I consider 'Latin America' to be the countries formerly colonized by Spain, France and Portugal, *excluding* Canada and the United States. So I include the French and Spanish  colonies of the Carribean, but exclude all British and Dutch colonies. For me, Latin America is a historic, cultural and political entity, not a linguistic one. In Latin America there are also many indigenous languages still used. 

Mora


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## vince

mora said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> Although French is spoken by a majority of people in Quebec, French is an official language in ALL of Canada, and French is spoken in ALL parts of the country, so it is incorrect to characterize Canada as an English speaking country outside of Quebec.


_de juro_, Canada is bilingual throughout the whole country. But this is only the federal government (i.e. the government based in Ottawa). The only province bilingual at the provincial level is New Brunswick. Outside of Quebec, parts of New Brunswick, northern Ontario, and isolated pockets near Windsor and Winnipeg, it is impossible to communicate with the general population in French.

"French is spoken in ALL parts of the country"

So is Cantonese, Italian, and Spanish. In fact, if you take away the regions mentioned above, these three languages would each have more speakers than French. But I wouldn't say Canada is a Cantonese-speaking country. A more accurate way to say it is that Canada is French-speaking in Quebec, English speaking outside of Quebec, and bilingual in New Brunswick.


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## natasha2000

For me, the term LATINO is related to Iberic Peninsula, and not to all Romance languages. Considering that Spanish and Portugese are languages spoken on Iberic Peninsula, they are the only LATINO languages that exist. So, Latin America would be all countries where LATINO languages, therefore Spanish and Portugese are official languages.

Hi, Ampurdan. Long time no see. Nice to read you again.


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## Chaska Ñawi

I agree with Natasha here.  The French language has never been considered a Latino language.  Like English, Italian, Romanian and the Iberic languages, it _is _a Romance language ... but that's a different story.

Demographically, it's predicted that in another fifty years more than half the population of the U.S.A. will be of Latin American ancestry.  A more interesting question, for me, is whether we would then consider it to be part of Latin America.


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## natasha2000

Excuse me Chaska, for being off-topic...
But as far as I know, English is not Romance language....


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## Chaska Ñawi

Any language with Latin roots is a romance language.  We fall into that category because of the French invasion of England, although we're more cousins than siblings. 

And returning to the topic, my Latin America at this demographic moment starts at the Mexican border and encompasses any Spanish or Portuguese-speaking country (not region, as has already been mentioned) in the Americas.


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## natasha2000

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> Any language with Latin roots is a romance language. We fall into that category because of the French invasion of England, although we're more cousins than siblings.


 
English language

See the table - Language family


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## Samuel Hain

I rather use therm Ibérica than Latína
For me it is all the countries southwards from US/mexician border, 
Brasil included.


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## Outsider

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> I agree with Natasha here.  The French language has never been considered a Latino language.  Like English, Italian, Romanian and the Iberic languages, it _is _a Romance language ... but that's a different story.


Perhaps not a "Latino" language. However, the phrases "Latin America", "Latin American" and "Latin" (as a modern ethnic term) were coined by Napoleonic France, when it was trying to annex Mexico in the nineteenth century. Supposedly, since the French and the Mexicans had some intangible cultural background in common, the Mexicans should be O.K. with being ruled by France.

The attempt failed, but the phrase remained useful, with a slight twist of meaning.


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## Cereth

mora said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> Although French is spoken by a majority of people in Quebec, French is an official language in ALL of Canada, and French is spoken in ALL parts of the country, so it is incorrect to characterize Canada as an English speaking country outside of Quebec.
> 
> In my opinion neither Canada not the USA are part of Latin America, despite 40 million Spanish-speaking people in the US. I consider 'Latin America' to be the countries formerly colonized by Spain, France and Portugal, *excluding* Canada and the United States. So I include the French and Spanish colonies of the Carribean, but exclude all British and Dutch colonies. For me, Latin America is a historic, cultural and political entity, not a linguistic one. In Latin America there are also many indigenous languages still used.
> 
> Mora


 
This fits into my concept of latinamerica...
Miguelillo i´m surprised, why you don´t consider cuba as Latinamerica...???


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## natasha2000

Miguelillo, if I am not wrong, counted Cuba in Carribean America.
But I think he mixed up geographical and linguistic terms.

I would say that term Latin is used for linguistic division and Caribean is a part of geografic division. Therefore, according to georgaphic division, America can be divided into North, Central, South and Caribian America. But lingistically speaking, Latin America would be Mexico from north America, Central, South and Carribean America.


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## natasha2000

A little bit off topic...

Can anyone of mods correct the title and put "*WHAT* is Latin America a for you?


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## Miguelillo 87

I’ll have to apologize with the Cubans , As you said Latin America it’s not a linguistic division it’s a cultural division and as I think that I have to say That Cuba it’s Latino too. I made the division ‘cause I think maybe Caribbean countries has more in common with their brothers islands as Jamaica, Haiti, Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico etc
But yes now I believe Caribbean it’s latino too.


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## Miguelillo 87

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> A little bit off topic...
> 
> Can anyone of mods correct the title and put "*WHAT* is Latin America a for you?


If I put the name as Who it was for be more empathic in the way of say Who? Who countries I know it’s grammatical incorrect but it was just to give the sense I wanted . Sorry if my “word game” disturb anyone


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## natasha2000

Miguelillo 87 said:
			
		

> If I put the name as Who it was for be more empathic in the way of say Who? Who countries I know it’s grammatical incorrect but it was just to give the sense I wanted . Sorry if my “word game” disturb anyone


 
You can say "Who are Latin Americans for you?, but when referring to continent, you must use what. Natives, please, correct me if I am wrong.

And not, it didn't disturb anyone. Maybe I am a perfectionist, but considering that this is a language forum, I thought it was ok to correct.


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## MarX

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Hi everybody, I had been arguing in this forum of the name Latin-American, about which countries compound the term , and now I was wondering , people according to you Which countries compound Latin America?
> For me LATINAMERICA is compound of, Mexico, all Centro American countries, Venezuela, Colombia, Guyana and French Guyana, Suriname, Brazil, Argentina ,Chile, Peru, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador and Bolivia, Some persons said that Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and all the islands of the Caribbean are Latin America too for me this is the Caribbean not Latin America. And for my surprise some say that Canada specially Quebec are Latin-Americans TOO!!!!! So Which countries are Latin America for you?
> I would like to know the opinion of all the persons of the worlds Russia, Japan, China, England, Italy ,Egypt…
> Thank you very much


Hola Miguelillo!

I'm Indonesian and for me, *Amerika Latin* includes all countries in the Americas, from *Meksiko* on southwards.

Salam,


MarK


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## chics

What about French Guiana (la Guyana francesa)? It's in South America, but they speak Fench... And it's a region of FRANCE, by the way.

For me, as for Ampurdan, latinoamérica includes Puerto Rico and Miami, for example. But definitely not New York or any Newyorker. Also the Caribe, why not? It's America, sunny wonderful beaches, hot, they speak Latin languages...

And, well, first question was "who" is in latinamerica, not "which countries", so I'm interested also in areas, as Puerto Rico, Quebec, etc.


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## chaquito

Miguelillo 87 said:


> ... Pero quería saber que opinaba su gente, entonces Uds canadienses no se sienten Latinoaméricanos ¿O SÍ ?




I don't think that Canadians (in general) will feel that they are Latin Americans at all. Most do not even think that they are Americans!


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## Dom Casmurro

Chaska Ñawi said:


> I agree with Natasha here. The French language has never been considered a Latino language. Like English, Italian, Romanian and the Iberic languages, it _is _a Romance language ... but that's a different story.


I am lost here, and, to be frank, slightly amazed by the amount of new information contained in the two lines above. 

- First things first: what is a _Latino_ language? Is it different from a Latin language? Is Latino a geographic and demographic notion, as opposed to Latin, which is totally linguistic? 

- I assume you agree with me that Romance and Latin are synonyms. If you don't, can you please elaborate?

- (In case you consider Romance and Latin to be synonyms: ) By saying that English is a Romance language, you are necessarily implying that English is a Latin English. Is this opinion shared by linguistic authorities? If so, who?

Cheers.


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## Bonjules

chics said:


> What about French Guiana.....
> 
> For me, as for Ampurdan, latinoamérica includes Puerto Rico and Miami, for example. But definitely not New York or any Newyorker. Also the Caribe, why not? It's America, sunny wonderful beaches, hot, they speak Latin languages...
> 
> And, well, first question was "who" is in latinamerica, not "which countries", so I'm interested also in areas, as Puerto Rico, Quebec, etc.


 
I can only speak for what I see in Puerto Rico. The notion of it being a Latin American country is challenged by some, and not so much because it legally is a 'possession' of th US.
Although most folks still speak 'sort of' Spanish, this is increasingly penetrated by English terms, even literally translated idioms('Spanglish). Even for simple, practical words that have readily available Spanish equivalents.
The influence of commerce, popular culture is very strong, Puerto Ricans
being avid shoppers.
Moreover, a number of Puerto Rican writers and intellectuals already
write mostly - some exclusively - in English. This leads to some discomfort
in colleagues from Latinamerica; there were instances where writere were
not invited to literary congresses etc. From what I see, the reporting and reviewing of literature and new ideas (from L.A.) in the papers here is very sparse, limited to the few 'big hitters'.
There is also, in my view a big socio-cultural gap opening between those who stay on the island and the 'diaspora' most of which never come back to stay.


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## The scientist

Bonjules said:


> it legally is a 'possession' of th US.
> quote]
> 
> VERY SAD THING....


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## ter_

The scientist said:


> Bonjules said:
> 
> 
> 
> it legally is a 'possession' of th US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VERY SAD THING....
Click to expand...

Why? Is it also a 'very sad thing' that Sardinia and Sicily are legally 'possesions' of Italy?

Back to the original question: "Who is Latin America for you?"

For me, it is from Mexico southwards, including the Carribean islands where Spanish is spoken. I think that would probably be the standard usage of the term in English. If you're going to include Quebec then I can see no reason why you shouldn't include California and various other places in the United States.

Also, how about the places in the Americas where the indigenous peoples are still the majority and Spanish is not even the first language? Could you really call those places "Latin"? Surely New York would be more "Latin" than a village in the Andes where the completely indigenous population speaks Quechua.


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## tvdxer

Latin America is:


Mexico
Honduras
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Costa Rica
Guatemala
Panama
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Puerto Rico
Venezuela
Colombia
Peru
Ecuador
Bolivia
Paraguay
Argentina
Chile
And possibly Brazil.


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## Mirko_87

I think Brazil belongs to América Latina too


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## Dom Casmurro

tvdxer said:


> Latin America is:
> 
> Mexico
> Honduras
> Nicaragua
> El Salvador
> Costa Rica
> Guatemala
> Panama
> Cuba
> Dominican Republic
> Puerto Rico
> Venezuela
> Colombia
> Peru
> Ecuador
> Bolivia
> Paraguay
> Argentina
> Chile
> And possibly Brazil.


"Possibly"?  That's funny. I could never imagine that our belonging to Latin America would raise doubts among our neighbours. Unlike the Canadian Quebecois, who are Latin and are Americans but don't regard themselves as "Latin Americans", we Brazilians never challenged that linguistic and geographic reality. On the contrary, we are perfectly comfortable about that, and I just hope our neighbours feel as comfortable with our company.


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## Mate

Dom Casmurro said:


> ...and I just hope our neighbours feel as comfortable with our company.


Whe do .


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## twen

To me, Latin America is not defined by today's _political divisions_ but by the _original claims _made by Columbus-Cortéz-Balboa-Pizarro-et cetera in the name of the royalty of the Iberian Peninsula (today's Spain and Portugal) and the subsequent, _permanent _imposition of language, government, and infrastructure of the Iberian Peninsula coupled with tax payments to the royalty of same--that is to say, _control_.  Later political divisions created via war, treaties, or peaceful transfer don't change the origin.  Defining Latin America as two distinct regions--"continental" and "Caribbean"--can work too.  

Puerto Rico was originally claimed for Spain and was probably destined for autonomy, had not some war and treaty interceded.  

(Dom, love the list but miss Uruguay!  I'd add Brazil too.)

Interesting topic.  I look forward to reading more posts.

twen


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## MarX

Dom Casmurro said:


> "Possibly"?  That's funny. I could never imagine that our belonging to Latin America would raise doubts among our neighbours. Unlike the Canadian Quebecois, who are Latin and are Americans but don't regard themselves as "Latin Americans", we Brazilians never challenged that linguistic and geographic reality. On the contrary, we are perfectly comfortable about that, and I just hope our neighbours feel as comfortable with our company.


I personally also see *Brazil* as part of *Latin America*, but I also understand that there is a widespread notion that *Latin America = Spanish speaking America*, and *Brazil* is not *Spanish speaking*, as we all know, even if the many Brazilians understand Spanish. 
The other extreme is including the *francophone* part of *Canada* into *Latin America*.
That's why such a thread like this is wonderful because you can see the different opinions of different persons.

Cheers!


MarK


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## cuchuflete

If Brasil is not part of Latin America, then I suppose it's in the good company of
Guaraní-speaking Paraguay, where Spanish is widely known, but as a second language.


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## MarX

cuchuflete said:


> If Brasil is not part of Latin America, then I suppose it's in the good company of
> Guaraní-speaking Paraguay, where Spanish is widely known, but as a second language.


Paraguay cannot really be compared to Brazil because:
1. Guarani is not Latin(-descendant), Portugues is Romance.
2. The official language of Paraguay is still Spanish, Brazil's is not.

As most of us know, there are many other areas in hispanic countries in America where Spanish is practically only a second language. E.g. areas where Kicua is spoken as the first language.

I personally think Brazil, and Paraguay for that matter, belong to Latin America. But the thread starter posed exactly the question "Who (I assume s/he meant which countries) is Latin America for you?" and it's normal that there are different opinions. If you think Paraguay doesn't belong to Latin America, no one is blaming you. You must have your reasons. 

Cheers!


MarK


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## Dom Casmurro

Brazil is part of Latin America, for God's sake. This is a fact of life as well as an official fact that stems from Brazil's being an active member - and sometimes a leader - of all the major diplomatic initiatives that take place in Latin America, such as the Grupo do Rio (Rio Group), the Amazonian Pact (Pacto Amazónico) and Mercosur, to name just a few. 

I am totally surprised to learn that there are people out there who volunteer "*personal*"  opinions on that, as if personal opinions, no matter how intelectually sophisticated they appear to be, could challenge a geographic, political, cultural, linguistic, historical, anthropological, ethnic, psychological and sociological reality. I say, people who have such personal opinions need to be really out of touch with what Latin America is all about.

I think everybody here has no difficulty in accepting that France is part of Europe, and that it would be a little extravagant, to put it mildly, to utter a "personal" opinion implying otherwise. The same applies to Brazil as regards Latin America.

Of course we are Latin Americans. We are deeply rooted here. What do you take us for? A bunch of nomads who accidentally wandered into the region and will be out of here in a year or two?


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## cuchuflete

Dom Casmurro has summed it up nicely.  Of course both Brasil and Paraguay are
part of what most thinking people consider Latin America.  It's about both geography and culture, and not just a single language.  While there is broad diversity among Latin American nations, there are also strong cultural similarities.  Some Beliceños don't speak Spanish—or Portuguese— either.  Should they therefore be excluded?  Of course not.


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## MarX

Dom Casmurro said:


> Brazil is part of Latin America, for God's sake. This is a fact of life as well as an official fact that stems from Brazil's being an active member - and sometimes a leader - of all the major diplomatic initiatives that take place in Latin America, such as the Grupo do Rio (Rio Group), the Amazonian Pact (Pacto Amazónico) and Mercosur, to name just a few.
> 
> I am totally surprised to learn that there are people out there who volunteer "*personal*"  opinions on that, as if personal opinions, no matter how intelectually sophisticated they appear to be, could challenge a geographic, political, cultural, linguistic, historical, anthropological, ethnic, psychological and sociological reality. I say, people who have such personal opinions need to be really out of touch with what Latin America is all about.
> 
> I think everybody here has no difficulty in accepting that France is part of Europe, and that it would be a little extravagant, to put it mildly, to utter a "personal" opinion implying otherwise. The same applies to Brazil as regards Latin America.
> 
> Of course we are Latin Americans. We are deeply rooted here. What do you take us for? A bunch of nomads who accidentally wandered into the region and will be out of here in a year or two?


Guys, don't start stoning me here. 

As I said, I've always think Brazil and Paraguay are part of Latin America.
But when I found out that there were people who exclude Brazil, I tried not to approach them with the attitude of:
"They are so dumb and ignorant while I know better. _Everybody_ knows that Brazil is a part of Latin America. How can someone be so stupid to think it's not!?"
Instead I try to find out the reason why they thought this way. And if I get into a conversation with them, I'd try to explain to them why Brazil generally is included in Latin America.
Such a wiseacre attitude is not constructive, IMO. If some of you think otherwise. Alright. I won't start stoning you. 

Cheers!


MarK


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## Sepia

This thread has given me more than enough good reasons not to use the expression "Latin America" - which I rarely did in the first place. 

As what should I consider Trinidad-Tobago ... anglophone, part South American continent part island? I really prefer people to understand what I am talking about, when I say something.


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## CarolMamkny

Dom Casmurro said:


> Brazil is part of Latin America, for God's sake.


 
Don Casmurro.... En mi opinión (Y no me considero una persona más o menos educada que el resto de mis adorados foreros) hay que tener en cuenta la poca educación que reciben nuestros amigos en los Estados Unidos sobre la geografía, historia y cultura del resto de América. Recuerdo mi primer semestre de universidad en NY, un chico me pregunto ¿de dónde eres?, le respondí "De Colombia"... Me miró y me dijo ...Y ¿En qué parte de Mexico queda Colombia? 

Entonces... no es sorprendente que algunos piensen que Brasil no hace parte de Latinoamérica.


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## EmilyD

Let's include *Haitians!
*_Nomi_


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## Bonjules

The scientist said:


> Bonjules said:
> 
> 
> 
> it legally is a 'possession' of th US.
> quote]
> 
> VERY SAD THING....
> 
> 
> 
> (we are talking about Puerto Rico)
> 
> 
> Hola,
> I think people should be reminded that this situation exists
> in accordance with the wishes of the majority of the population.
> 
> To take the historical approach to ‘cultural identity’ is one approach;
> in the case of  Puerto Rico this obviously doesn’t work too well.
> How does this society see itself (today)?
> The more one scratches the surface, the deeper a cultural confusion
> emerges.
> Some psychiatrists feel this confusion is so severe that it accounts for
> some of the very high incidence of mental illness/dysfunctional behavior/
> violence on the island.
> I forgot to mention: The mayor of San Juan (capital) just decided that the
> police will now be called “San Juan City Police Department”.
Click to expand...


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## Dom Casmurro

MarX said:


> Guys, don't start stoning me here.


Don't worry, I'm not a stone-throwing kind of guy.  The thing is, I was really surprised when I found people wondering about which countries should be part of _my_ region and which ones should be put aside. A _Scramble for Latin America_, as opposed to the _Scramble for Africa_, came to mind...  As a native of this region, I felt as if I was witnessing a second edition of the Berlin Congress of 1878, if you know what I mean.


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## ter_

Dom Casmurro said:


> I am totally surprised to learn that there are people out there who volunteer "*personal*"  opinions on that, as if personal opinions, no matter how intelectually sophisticated they appear to be, could challenge a geographic, political, cultural, linguistic, historical, anthropological, ethnic, psychological and sociological reality. I say, people who have such personal opinions need to be really out of touch with what Latin America is all about.


Well, the thread was started by someone asking precisely for *personal *opinions on what Latin America was for them, so don't get your knickers in a twist when those opinions don't necessarily coincide with what *you *consider to be a geographic, political, cultural, linguistic, historical, anthropological, ethnic, psychological and sociological reality. Some people have suggested that Quebec should be considered part of Latin America, others have said it shouldn't. A few different cities/states in the USA have also been mentioned. On the basis that those places (note: not entire countries) are Latin American, it seems reasonable to suggest that other places where the population is "indigenous" and a Latin-based language is not the majority one, are not very "Latin" at all. 

I knew it wouldn't be long before the old chestnut of "ignorant yankees don't know anything geography, etc" came up . But the fact that someone said that Brazil was only "maybe" in Latin America is probably due to how the word Latin is commonly used in the USA, and not much to do with geographical knowledge.

At the end of the day, there is obviously no legal definition of what Latin America is, so the term is open to interpretation, as has been well demonstrated in this discussion.


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## Dom Casmurro

ter_ said:


> Well, the thread was started by someone asking precisely for *personal *opinions on what Latin America was for them, so don't get your knickers in a twist when those opinions don't necessarily coincide with what *you *consider to be a geographic, political, cultural, linguistic, historical, anthropological, ethnic, psychological and sociological reality. Some people have suggested that Quebec should be considered part of Latin America, others have said it shouldn't. A few different cities/states in the USA have also been mentioned. On the basis that those places (note: not entire countries) are Latin American, it seems reasonable to suggest that other places where the population is "indigenous" and a Latin-based language is not the majority one, are not very "Latin" at all.
> 
> I knew it wouldn't be long before the old chestnut of "ignorant yankees don't know anything geography, etc" came up . But the fact that someone said that Brazil was only "maybe" in Latin America is probably due to how the word Latin is commonly used in the USA, and not much to do with geographical knowledge.
> 
> At the end of the day, there is obviously no legal definition of what Latin America is, so the term is open to interpretation, as has been well demonstrated in this discussion.


Sorry for sounding upset, and thanks for sharing your personal opinion, which was enriching to me.


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## MarX

CarolMamkny said:


> Don Casmurro.... En mi opinión (Y no me considero una persona más o menos educada que el resto de mis adorados foreros) hay que tener en cuenta la poca educación que reciben nuestros amigos en los Estados Unidos sobre la geografía, historia y cultura del resto de América. Recuerdo mi primer semestre de universidad en NY, un chico me pregunto ¿de dónde eres?, le respondí "De Colombia"... Me miró y me dijo ...Y ¿En qué parte de Mexico queda Colombia?
> 
> Entonces... no es sorprendente que algunos piensen que Brasil no hace parte de Latinoamérica.


This doesn't have much to do with education. The reality is that the term "Latin" has many different connotations (not necessarily negative) in the US.

The fact that Colombia is an independent country and not an area located in Mexico cannot be compared to something such as "Latin America", a fluent term which has different interpretations, depending from which angle you look at it from and/or which aspects you take into consideration.


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## ampurdan

I think this is a geopolitical term, the linguistic reference in the name ("Latin") should not be readen so strictly as to include regions with no connection with the area ("Québec") or as to exclude regions in these countries were no Latin language is speaken. So, I guess it's normal that New Mexico and Louisiana are excluded too and that Suriname, Belize and Guyana are included. I guess Jamaica, The Antilles and French Guyana (even it's part of France) should be included too if we are talking about the area.

It depends on where are we interested to draw the line. What are we defining? Common socioeconomical reality in the area, a common culture?


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## Dom Casmurro

This discussion of ours kind of reminds me of a situation I went through about 20 years ago, at some immigration office in the US. I was trying to fill a form on which, among other personal data, I was requested to define my race, or "ethnic group". Five or maybe six options were offered, each of them corresponding to a little check box to be filled accordingly. If my recollection is correct, the options were: Caucasian, African descendant, Hispanic, Asian and Arab. 

I had already filled the "nationality" field: Brazilian. The next step was to choose which ethnic group fit me better. I was confused with that blend of concepts that sprang up from at least four different scientific sources: anthropology (caucasian), geography (caucasian again, African descendant, Asian), linguistics (Hispanic and Arab) and, to some extent, biology (African descendant). As a white person, I felt that the caucasian option would be it, but something made me suspect that maybe that one was meant for real Europeans, not Latin Americans of European descent. I checked on that with the person that was attending me, and she said: "Brazilian? Tick here, please." Her finger took me to the Hispanic option. 

I tried to explain that I would love to, but since I did not belong in the Spanish speaking community, I would feel it inappropriate to. She then returned a confusing and dismayed face to me, as if fearing that I was about to add up to her daily quota of freaks with whom she coped every now and then. She looked around, maybe for help from the manager or a more experienced co-worker. I looked around too, and noticed that about ten people were waiting to be attended, some of them looking impatient. 

Then I looked down at the form again, and made a decision based on the fact that a form like that, with a question like, should not be taken as seriously as I was taking it. And that was how, by ticking the check box that was made available for my linguistic transformation act, I became a Hispanic for all official purposes, as long as I lived in the US.


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