# A small fry vs small fries [food]



## HSS

A: How are you?
B: I'm fine, how are you?
A: Good, can I get *a small fry*?

You usually refer to an order of fries as fries because you'll get a bag of fries, but is it more customary to say 'a small fry' instead of 'small fries' when ordering?


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## cidertree

No, a small fry is something completely different to fried potatoes.

Edit: Link corrected.


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## HSS

Hi Cidertree.

What is it then? I'm curious. I thought it was a small order of French fries.
(Your link doesn't work - It now works, thanks!)


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## Loob

Here's *small fry* in the WR dictionary, Hiro: small-fry - WordReference.com Dictionary of English.

There's also a previous thread small fry: a mass noun or a count noun or an adjective?


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## User With No Name

HSS said:


> but is it more customary to say 'a small fry' instead of 'small fries' when ordering


I imagine "small fries" or "small order of fries" is more common, but I'm pretty sure that in the abbreviated language of fast-food employees, "small fry" is also common.


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## HSS

Aw, Loob, I know that expression. I'm looking at chips in BE.


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## HSS

User With No Name said:


> I imagine "small fries" or "small order of fries" is more common, but I'm pretty sure that in the abbreviated language of fast-food employees, "small fry" is also common.


Hi User With No Name.

Okay, but someone went on saying 'a small fry' at an eatery, and I caught her saying it. *A* small fry? Anything goes, right?


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## heypresto

HSS said:


> Okay, but someone went on saying 'a small fry' at an eatery, and I caught her saying it. *A* small fry? Anything goes, right?


In what context/complete sentence does she say it? If she's talking about a small portion/bag of fries, then no, anything _doesn't_ go.


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## Edinburgher

A small fry is as incorrect as a large fry.  You should always use the plural here, even after "a", because the missing words "portion of" are understood.  "I'd like a large chips" means the same as "I'd like a large *portion of* chips".  A large or small chip would be one actual chip, a single piece of potato.

At the chip shop there will be a price list on the wall, and it will say "Large chips -- £1.20; Small chips -- 80p" or something like that.  We simply say "I'd like a <name of menu item>", so "I'd like a small chips" is OK.

Actually, "I'd like two large chips" is also OK in a chip shop context, and doesn't mean two single chips but two large portions.


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## Loob

HSS said:


> Aw, Loob, I know that expression. I'm looking at chips in BE.


Yes, I know.

I would find "a small fry" decidedly odd in your context:
(a) it would make me think of the 'real' meaning of _small fry_
(b) there would be a conflict between the singular article and the plural meaning of the 'real' _small fry_
(c) you have the usual phrase "[a] small fries"; why vary it?


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## HSS

Hi Heypresto.

She sounded like she is from Seattle, and a customer, ordering a small order of French fries.


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## Chasint

HSS said:


> Hi User With No Name.
> 
> Okay, but someone went on saying 'a small fry' at an eatery, and I caught her saying it. *A* small fry? Anything goes, right?


No. However a customer might say "a small fries". This sounds ungrammatical but it's understood as an abbreviation of "a portion of small fries" or similar.

Example

(Reading from the menu_) I'll have a diet coke and a small fries._


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## HSS

Edinburgher said:


> A small fry is as incorrect as a large fry.  You should always use the plural here, even after "a", because the missing words "portion of" are understood.  "I'd like a large chips" means the same as "I'd like a large *portion of* chips".  A large or small chip would be one actual chip, a single piece of potato.
> 
> At the chip shop there will be a price list on the wall, and it will say "Large chips -- £1.20; Small chips -- 80p" or something like that.  We simply say "I'd like a <name of menu item>", so "I'd like a small chips" is OK.
> 
> Actually, "I'd like two large chips" is also OK in a chip shop context, and doesn't mean two single chips but two large portions.





Loob said:


> Yes, I know.
> 
> I would find "a small fry" decidedly odd in your context:
> (a) it would make me think of the 'real' meaning of _small fry_
> (b) there would be a conflict between the singular article and the plural meaning of the 'real' _small fry_
> (c) you have the usual phrase "[a] small fries"; why vary it?


You could say 'a small chips,' 'a small fries,' without making it sound like they are clashed in number agreement? Wow!


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## Edinburgher

HSS said:


> She sounded like she is from Seattle, and a customer, ordering a small order of French fries.


Well, you know what they say.  The customer is always right, even when they're wrong.
Either you misheard her (her 's' at the end may have been difficult to hear), or she was trying to make a stupid joke, or she was simply wrong.


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## heypresto

HSS said:


> She sounded like she is from Seattle, and a customer, ordering a small order of French fries.


I don't think I could tell if someone sounded like they were from Seattle. Maybe one of our American friends can tell us if someone from there is typically or stereotypically more likely to say 'fry' rather than 'fries' in this context.


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## User With No Name

Chasint said:


> However a customer might say "a small fries".


I'm not claiming that it's "correct," but I really think it is entirely possible to hear things like "a double cheeseburger and a small fry" or "a double cheeseburger and a large fry" at McDonald's in the U.S.

And such phrases give numerous hits in Google, at least some of which appear to be authentic.

EDIT: I'm not aware of this usage being regional within the U.S. And again, I'm not saying it's the most common option. Just that it's entirely possible, and so I think the OP may very well have overheard the conversation correctly.


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## HSS

And thanks, Chasint


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## HSS

heypresto said:


> I don't think I could tell if someone sounded like they were from Seattle. Maybe one of our American friends can tell us if someone from there is typically or stereotypically more likely to say 'fry' rather than 'fries' in this context.


 Well, I had a little casual chat with her, and she sounded like she comes from there.


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## heypresto

User With No Name said:


> I'm not claiming that it's "correct," but I really think it is entirely possible to hear things like "a double cheeseburger and a small fry" or "a double cheeseburger and a large fry" at McDonald's in the U.S.
> 
> And such phrases give numerous hits in Google, at least some of which appear to be authentic.


I wonder if it's some sort of hypercorrection?


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## User With No Name

heypresto said:


> I wonder if it's some sort of hypercorrection?


That would be my guess:

"A small order of fries" got shortened in casual speech to "a small fries," which sounds odd because of "a" + plural noun. So it further evolved to "a small fry" for some speakers. Language just sort of fell apart, basically.


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## Loob

Interesting, User With No Name.


(I've been trying to picture myself going into a chip shop and asking for "a small chip"...)


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## HSS

More account of the act there ... the lady waiting on her didn't have a hard time understanding her one bit. She said 'yup, yup, yup,' hearing other items. She said (to me) she is a big fan of their fries. This time 'fries.' I presume without a size in front, and in a complete sentence, it would sound so odd - their fry - so now it's in plural.


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## Loob

Well, it would have been pretty rude of the lady waiting on her to say "Fry? _Fry_? What do you mean 'Fry'?"


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## User With No Name

Loob said:


> Well, it would have been pretty rude of the lady waiting on her to say "Fry? _Fry_? What do you mean 'Fry'?"


Exactly.

Also, while I've had fun participating in this conversation, it's worth remembering that trying to analyze minor details of very casual, hurried, spoken language can be a pretty futile exercise. It is tempting to try to find a degree of logic and precision that just isn't there.


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## HSS

User With No Name said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Also, while I've had fun participating in this conversation, it's worth remembering that trying to analyze minor details of very casual, hurried, spoken language can be a pretty futile exercise. It is tempting to try to find a degree of logic and precision that just isn't there.


Yes, User With No Name. I'm a linguist and the nature of the profession sometimes pushes me all the way to fine points.


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## glamorgan

I would like add something to the pan: specifically bacon, eggs, sausages, black pudding and potato bread with soda bread served on a side plate. This is an "Ulster Fry". It is popular in the Irish region of Ulster. The concept of a "small Ulster Fry" does exist and will be understood, as will a request for a "small [Ulster] Fry".


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## Loob

There's also "a full fry", of course - meaning a fried breakfast with all the bits included.  So I suppose you could say "a small full fry" - though I don't think I've ever heard it.


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## heypresto

Loob said:


> a fried breakfast with all the bits included



I only know that as a 'fry-up'. And if you're going to have one, a small one just wouldn't cut it.


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## glamorgan

Loob said:


> There's also "a full fry", of course - meaning a fried breakfast with all the normal bits included.  So I suppose you could say "a small full fry" - though I don't think I've ever heard it.


There is, but I don't think I've ever seen the term used. In England the establishments I frequent offer a "full English", in Ireland, a "full Irish", and in the North East of Ireland an "Ulster Fry". I must look out for some counter-examples.


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## heypresto

I've just discovered that with the addition of laverbread cakes and cockles, a typical Full English (breakfast) becomes a Full Welsh. 

https://www.welshproduce.com/create_the_perfect_full_welsh_breakfast/


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## kentix

A (or "one") small fry is completely unremarkable in an American fast food context.

"I'll have one small fry, one large fry, two hamburgers, a medium Coke and a large Coke. Thanks."

"Let's call it the Tour de Fry."

I picked up Julia and Cami from school for an adventure. The goal: determine the very best french fries by conducting a Tour de Fry.​...​At each place I'd order at the counter, "Can I have one small fry please?" and Cami would start the timer.​
(No one would ever say "portion". If they did say something along those lines it would be "order")


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## HSS

Hi kentix,

Okay, thanks. What if there was only one size, would you just say, "I'll have a fry, please"?


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## kentix

Probably not. 

I'll have a hamburger, fries and a Coke.


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## Loob

kentix said:


> (No one would ever say "portion". If they did say something along those lines it would be "order")


Would it be "one small order of fry"?


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## kentix

No, it would be something like a small order of fries.


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## HSS

kentix said:


> Probably not.
> 
> I'll have a hamburger, fries and a Coke.


So the singular 'fry' happens with a mention of its size.


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## kentix

Yes


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## HSS

I'm about to hit the sack, but before I go, kentix, would you rather say '*a* small *fry*' or '*a* small *fries*'? Which would you say more often?


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## JulianStuart

I've had (maybe more than) my share of fast food in all sorts of locations in the US and have never once heard "a small fry" in the context of ordering "a burger and (small) X" - X has always been fries.  The only context where I've heard  "a small fry" is where my wife picks the small fries off my plate and leaves the big ones for me to eat


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## kentix

I'd probably say "a small fries".

But in the example I gave above, I might very well say it directly as written. It just depends on what pops out of my mouth.

"I'll have one small fry, one large fry, two hamburgers, a medium Coke and a large Coke. Thanks."

Here are some search results for large fry, which is easier to search for (small fry gets mixed results from the alternate meaning of "small child/unimportant person"):

- This was a large fry! Their large fries are about the size of everyone else's small to medium size.

- Check the pricing for a large fry at McDonald's in Oklahoma.

-  this also means a serving contains a lot more calories than McDonald's, where a large fry contains "only" 510 calories.

- So, you decide to buy a Big Mac, a Large Fry, and a Large Drink.


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## pob14

Just chiming in to agree with kentix, although I think I say “fry” much more often than “fries” in this context.

As to the “real” meaning of “small fry,” I don’t think I’ve heard that in the last 40 years or so.


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## HSS

Extrapolating it a bit, what about 'two large fries'? This sounds so plausible. In real context, as right at a fast food counter, you would very much likely economize your utterance by dropping 'order,' 'portion,' or 'bag,' and just say 'two large fries.' But then this is going as an aside, so maybe I should forget to touch upon it.


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## kentix

No, you definitely might will hear that. Just stand by the counter and you'll likely hear it sooner rather than later.


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## HSS

By plausible, I meant likely. So thanks for your agreement.  Yes, I've heard it said a hundred times, if not a thousand times.


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## HSS

Just crossed my mind. Which would you use, *is* or *are*? I'd use *is*.

*A* large *fries* *is*/*are* going to be given for free to a customer who orders the extra large hamburger.


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## Loob

HSS said:


> Just crossed my mind. Which would you use, *is* or *are*? I'd use *is*.
> 
> *A* large *fries* *is*/*are* going to be given for free to a customer who orders the extra large hamburger.


Is😄


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## HSS

Like I thought!


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## RM1(SS)

User With No Name said:


> I'm not claiming that it's "correct," but I really think it is entirely possible to hear things like "a double cheeseburger and a small fry" or "a double cheeseburger and a large fry" at McDonald's in the U.S.


Go to McGrub's with me and you'll hear it!


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