# Tíz perce várok



## ausermilar

Szervusztok!

Maybe it's obvious but, sorry,  I can't catch the reason:  in sentences like "Tíz perce várok" and "néhany perce ezelőtt", what's happened to the word "perc"? To me that "e" after "perc" looks like a simple possessive ("his/her minute") and, well, what's doing there?

Thanks for your help.


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## AndrasBP

ausermilar said:


> Maybe it's obvious but, sorry, I can't catch the reason:


It's OK, it is *not *obvious to native speakers either. I can't explain why in such expressions we use a form that happens to be the same as the possessive form, but that's how it works:

tíz *perce*
két *órája*
öt *napja*
három *hete*
húsz *éve*

However, the phrase "néhány perc*e* ezelőtt" is *not *correct, it should be "néhány perc*cel *ezelőtt", so the suffix "*-val/-vel*" is used:

két órá*val* ezelőtt
öt nap*pal* ezelőtt
három hét*tel *ezelőtt
húsz év*vel* ezelőtt

(I suppose you know about the assimilation of "v" when "-val/-vel" comes after a word ending in a consonant.)


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## francisgranada

I think that from the grammatical point of view, it is a true possessive ending. The "full" (or perhaps original) expression could be something like this: _ tíz perc*e* (van)  an*nak*, hogy itt várok._

The discussed construction is similar to_ an*nak* a ház*a*, János*nak* van feleség*e*, etc .... _


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## Zsanna

francisgranada said:


> The discussed construction is similar to_ an*nak* a ház*a*, János*nak* van feleség*e*, etc .... _


Francis is right to draw the attention to this (even though in this case there is no common meaning with the expression of "to have" in Hungarian) because it is always useful to see the "full" form of an expression. 
I would just add that this possessive form sometimes seems to be the same as a time expression with of _óta_ (as in 20 perc*e* várok or 20 perc *óta* várok) but, really, the difference can be like in the use of _since_ and _for_ in English, with a twist.
E.g.
- Két órája várok. (I have been waiting for two hours.) (->denoting a period of time the action lasted until the moment of speaking)
- Két óra óta várok. (a) I have been waiting since 2 p.m. -> denoting the beginning point of the activity or, like the previous, b) I have been waiting for two hours.->denoting a period of time the action lasted until the moment of speaking)



ausermilar said:


> ..."néhany perce ezelőtt", what's happened to the word "perc"?


What could have happened is that in some dialects (like in the Szeged one), we don't double the "*c*" and don't pronounce the final "l" when saying _per*cc*el_. The final "e" may sound as a normal "e"(only a bit longer) or one going towards an "é".


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## ausermilar

Zsanna said:


> Francis is right to draw the attention to this (even though in this case there is no common meaning with the expression of "to have" in Hungarian) because it is always useful to see the "full" form of an expression.
> I would just add that this possessive form sometimes seems to be the same as a time expression with of _óta_ (as in 20 perc*e* várok or 20 perc *óta* várok) but, really, the difference can be like in the use of _since_ and _for_ in English, with a twist.
> E.g.
> - Két órája várok. (I have been waiting for two hours.) (->denoting a period of time the action lasted until the moment of speaking)
> - Két óra óta várok. (a) I have been waiting since 2 p.m. -> denoting the beginning point of the activity or, like the previous, b) I have been waiting for two hours.->denoting a period of time the action lasted until the moment of speaking)
> 
> 
> What could have happened is that in some dialects (like in the Szeged one), we don't double the "*c*" and don't pronounce the final "l" when saying _per*cc*el_. The final "e" may sound as a normal "e"(only a bit longer) or one going towards an "é".



OK, understood! Thanks.


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## Lazar_Bgd

Zsanna said:


> - Két óra óta várok. (a) I have been waiting since 2 p.m. -> denoting the beginning point of the activity or, like the previous, b) I have been waiting for two hours.->denoting a period of time the action lasted until the moment of speaking)
> 
> Dear Zsanna,
> 
> So, it is possible to use 'óta' with periods of time like in your example (b) with the meaning 'for'...?
> 
> I am asking this because I was told that 'óta' should only be used with time points like '2018 óta', or 'május óta' in the meaning of 'since' and only with expressions like 'évek óta' and 'hetek óta' in the meaning of 'for'.
> 
> Thank you!


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## Zsanna

Yes, it is, LazarBgd. It is not surprising if there is no exact correspondance with the English from this point of view.


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## Lazar_Bgd

Thank you, Dear Zsanna,

Good to know!


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## AndrasBP

*a)* tíz perce, két órája, három hete
*b)* tíz perc óta, két óra óta, három hét óta

I feel I must add that even though both "a" and "b" are correct, the forms in "a" are _much _more common (at least in Budapest).


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## francisgranada

AndrasBP said:


> I feel I must add that even though both "a" and "b" are correct, the forms in "a" are _much _more common ....


I agree. For me _óta _still refers to a point in time, even if sometimes I hear expressions like in b).
.


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