# Turn it [the Torah] and turn it again, for everything is in it



## RockNote

What is the word for "turn" in the original Hebrew, I wonder? 

Here is a point of reference for the English translation: 
Michael Chernick, “Turn it and turn it again: Culture and Talmud Interpretation” in _Turn It Again: Jewish Medieval Studies and Literary Theory_, p. 59. 
Turn It Again


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## origumi

*הֲפָךְ* בָּהּ וַהֲפָךְ בָּהּ, דְּכֹלָּא בָהּ

משנה אבות ה כב – ויקיטקסט


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## RockNote

Thanks very much, Origumi!

Having now studied it more closely (having just a basic knowledge of Biblical Hebrew), I must admit that I don't understand the Dalet in דְּכֹלָּא, i.e. what translates as "for."


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## aavichai

the Dalet means "which", "that" but this is Aramic and in this case "for"
it says "turn it and turn it for everything is in it

Turn it and turn it means - study it (the Tora) again and again

and you can use it even for secular things
in the meaning: as much as you study more and repeat it again and again, you will learn new things each and every time you study.


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## RockNote

Thanks very much for your comments, Aavichai! I feel quite at home in terms of its meaning, whereas the original language to me is a real challenge. But with dictionaries and online access I have now managed to undertand it, I feel. What you have added in terms of the Aramaic use of Dalet as - in this case - the conjunction "for" I was unable to clear up myself. So many thanks for that!


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## Drink

The Hebrew of that time tended to mix in a lot of Aramaic (and the Jewish Aramaic of the time tended to mix in a lot of Hebrew). דְּכֹלָּא is the exact equivalent of Hebrew שֶׁהַכֹּל; both Aramaic ד and Hebrew ש usually mean "that" but can sometimes mean "because", especially in the language of that period (and "for" in English in this case is just a fancier word for "because").


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## hadronic

origumi said:


> *הֲפָךְ* בָּהּ וַהֲפָךְ בָּהּ, דְּכֹלָּא בָהּ
> 
> משנה אבות ה כב – ויקיטקסט



Isn't imperative of הפך rather הפוך? 
לכתוב, יכתוב, כתוב with o/o/o
ללמוד, ילמד, למד with o/a/a
לשכב, ישכב, שכב with a/a/a
לברוח, יברח, ברח with o/a/a (because of guttural) 

Then :
להפוך, יהפוך, הפוך, on the model of כתב. 

Thx


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> Isn't imperative of הפך rather הפוך?
> לכתוב, יכתוב, כתוב with o/o/o
> ללמוד, ילמד, למד with o/a/a
> לשכב, ישכב, שכב with a/a/a
> לברוח, יברח, ברח with o/a/a (because of guttural)
> 
> Then :
> להפוך, יהפוך, הפוך, on the model of כתב.
> 
> Thx



I think it's הֲפָךְ־בָּהּ with a qamatz qatan (i.e. the word is one prosodic unit with בה, and so the vowel is shortened since it is in an unstressed closed syllable).


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## origumi

See also the Biblical אֱכָל בְּנִי דְבַשׁ כִּי טוֹב (Proverbs 24:13), or וַיֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ אֱמָר נָא שִׁבֹּלֶת (Judges 12:6).


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## hadronic

I see.. Thank you!


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## bazq

I may be saying nonesense, but I remember something about alternations of qamatz and holam male being common place in the Bible, and them not representing any phonetic difference (historically, maybe certain reading tranditions exhibit variance). How wrong am I?


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## Drink

bazq said:


> I may be saying nonesense, but I remember something about alternations of qamatz and holam male being common place in the Bible, and them not representing any phonetic difference (historically, maybe certain reading tranditions exhibit variance). How wrong am I?



In this case it's holam haser and qamatz qatan (since pa'al future/imperative is actually a holam haser). If that's what you meant, then you are right about the alternations, but there was a phonetic difference between them, and still is in pronunciations that distinguish holam from qamatz qatan (Ashkenazi and Yemenite, for example).


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## RockNote

I don't have any opinion about the grammer. I just wish to say that Origami quoted the phrase correctly from the web page to which he made reference. I have now ordered the book (_Mishnah_, ed. Chanoch Albeck) which the article I made reference to in my original post ("Turn it and turn it again") lists as a footnote.


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## RockNote

It's an old thread by now, but I wanted to let you know that I have now, at long last, acquired a book to quote from. It has:  הפוך בה והפך בה דכולה בה. It is this one:

Taylor, Charles (ed.). 1969 [1897]. _Sayings of the Jewish Fathers: Comprising Pirqe Aboth in Hebrew and English with Notes and Excursuses_. 2nd ed. New York: Ktav Publishing House, Inc.

This book gives the quote at 5:32. But other editions vary greatly in terms of the "verse" (i.e. what is here 32).


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