# Miss is missing



## Ramisadeh

Hi, I know and use a lot of addressing words like Beyefendi for men, Hanımefendi for ladies, abi when addressing men in informal settings, arkadaş for guys younger than I am with a pinch of friendliness. But I used to say Abla for all young ladies whether they were my age or a bit older or younger than I am until my friend pointed out to me that it is rude to address girls who are younger than me with Abla, cause that would imply that I see them as older than myself, is this true? And if so what should I use in this case?


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## Rallino

Your friend is probably right. I suggest you just use Hanımefendi for all women, no matter their age. It's usually pronounced *H*_*an'fendi*_.


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## themadprogramer

Uh... okay Turkish honorifics (I will call them as such because these are fare more similar to the honorifics we see in Far Eastern languages more so than adressing words) are incredibly diverse.

But as you can see abla (elder sister) can be used to refer to a younger person and also someone of a close age.
This is funny because we have another, albeit far more uncommon of a word because as far as I know it has been overused by various groups in their propaganda, _bacı _which semantically means a younger sister. Though here's the thing,  just like abla _bacı_ can be used to refer to an older lady. 

In the case of both you ought to be close to said person (If you are a male). Because frankly if you were a girl you could call whoever so you pleased as such but you'd get eye'd by you parents were you to call a boy you "just met" an _abi_ Calling someone your relative requires that you be somewhat cordial. You can even call your classmates as such without much haphazard.

Or if you want to be on the safe side, say the person's and follow it up with
abi/abla/(if you want to impress someone with you knowledge of obscure but formally common words) bacı .

This is more of a indicator of a mid-range proximity. (Even so my younger sister likes calling me like this and people laugh "why doesn't she doesn't she just call you by your name or BRO?")


Oh and for the record, it's not always rude to use abi/abla when you don't know a person. In fact if you've met someone for the first time "Abla bakıvercen mi?" (*Sister* (Darling) would you mind* taking a look* (helping me over here; literally: giving a look   ? )  Though people might get offended that you called them as such despite being a foreigner, so like Rallino said you might want to stick to Hanımefendi in this case.


P.S. You can use kardeşim and abim/abicim (abiciğim) just like you use arkadaş.


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## Gemmenita

Hi Ramisadeh,


Ramisadeh said:


> But I used to say Abla for all young ladies whether they were my age or a bit older or younger ...


'Abla' is used only for ladies _much_ older than you and even _not_ _a bit_ older! So for youngers NEVER!


Ramisadeh said:


> ...my friend pointed out to me that it is rude to address girls who are younger than me with Abla, cause that would imply that I see them as older than myself, is this true?


Exactly!


I would like just to add that, on the other hand, if you say 'abla' to a lady with an _obvious_ difference of age with you (much older than you), it would be very _nice_ and even _respectful_ to call her 'abla' and she will be happy!


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## Ramisadeh

Thanks for your input but the Miss is still missing, if I wanted to refer to a miss, or to call her miss, what should I say? 
For example in english they say miss
In french they say demoiselle
In spanish señorita
In arabic آنسة Aanisah
What should I use in turkish, not just for addressing unmarried women but also to refer to them.


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## Rallino

You can use Hanımefendi both when addressing to women and when referring to them. There is no distinction between married and unmarried women.


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## Gemmenita

Ramisadeh said:


> (...) if I wanted to refer to a miss, or to call her miss, what should I say?
> For example in english they say miss
> In french they say *ma*demoiselle
> In spanish señorita
> In arabic آنسة Aanisah
> What should I use in turkish, not just for addressing unmarried women but also to refer to them.


Ok! Now with your examples, your context for 'Miss' is more clear: a rather formal situation!
Therefore I advise against using 'bacı' and 'abla' for formal situations.

>>> In formal situations, no matter she is _Miss_ or _Mrs or _she is _older _or_ younger _than you_, _there are 2 structures:

-For saying Miss/Mrs + name : name + hanım
examples: Dilay hanım, Ayşe hanım, Ceren hanım,...

-For saying only Miss or only Mrs: Hanımefendi.


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## Ramisadeh

O.k now I get it, thank you all


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