# Ukrainian: Love, don't travel (by means of) that train



## mateo19

Good morning and hello!

I would like to know how to say, "Love, don't travel by means of that train".  This sounds horrible in English, but I wrote it in English because I think more people speak it than Slovak.

The original text is: "Láska, necestuj tým vlakom".

Thank you very much!

PS. A more natural translation might be "don't travel on that train" or even "don't get on that train".  I used "by means of" to ensure the use of the instrumental case.


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## sokol

If you want the Slovakian version translated into Ukrainian the best starting point ultimately would be the Slovak version; it should work out quite okay if you just replace the Slovak words with Ukrainian ones (in correct declension) as to my knowledge Ukrainian also knows the use of instrumental (with 'vlakom') like Slovak does.
(I don't speak Ukrainian. ;-)


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## mateo19

This is good advice, Sokol.
My try would be something like:

Коханню, не мандрувай цим поїздом!

The dictionary gave мандрувати and подорожувати for "to travel".  Neither of those verbs sounds like cestovať and I don't know the difference between them.  Наталю, де ти?


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## cyanista

Shall I give it a shot in the meantime?  I would suggest

"Коханко, не їдь тим поїздом!"

I believe you cannot use direct translations of "travel" here so you'd better  take "go" (їхати). Besides, кохання means the feeling of love, not the loved person. I used коханка but I'm pretty sure there is a better translation for it...


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## Natabka

Ahoj, here I am
Hi, everyone!
And - it becomes already a habit! - Cyanista, let me comment first on your version. It is good except one word "_коханка_" (it means "_lover_").

As for your variant, Mateo19, there are a few problems with declension-conjugation thing )) -

Коханн*ю*, не мандрув*ай* цим поїздом!
correct will be:
Коханн*я *(love), не мандру*й* цим (this) поїздом! 

But that doesn't sound Ukrainian, here Cyanista is completely right:


> I believe you cannot use direct translations of "travel" here so you'd better take "go" (їхати). Besides, *кохання* means the feeling of love, not the loved person.



So, the final version, I believe, sounds like this:

Кохана, не їдь тим (that) поїздом!

(кохана (f), коханий (m) -> loved person)

Hope that was of some help,
čau and take care! 

P.S. In this thread we tried once to discuss the difference between Ukrainian translations of "travel":
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1084115


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## mateo19

Thank you Cyanista and Наталю for your answers and explanations! 

Now I see that I did switch "this" and "that", (цим for тим) but I still have a question about the vocative.

If I were to directly address "love", be it the idea of love or someone I actually loved, it would still have to go into the vocative case, right?
For example, I can say "Кохання дуже красива" but "Коханню, будь добра з мною!"  Why wouldn't "кохана" change to "кохано" if you are addressing the person that you love?

It is true that we already discussed "travel" in Ukrainian and I even participated in that thread! :-s  To be a little fair, we did discuss the nouns and not the verbs.  Not that the vebs aren't derived from the nouns! LOL ;-)  Thanks for the heads up, Наталю!


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## Natabka

You're welcome, Mateo!



mateo19 said:


> If I were to directly address "love", be it the idea of love or someone I actually loved, it would still have to go into the vocative case, right?
> For example, I can say "Кохання дуже красива" but "Коханню, будь добра з мною!"  Why wouldn't "кохана" change to "кохано" if you are addressing the person that you love?



Ye-es  Sorry ) Actually, I wanted to put "кохана" in the vocative but thought that it is similar with nominative, like in masculine "коханий" ))

Addressing somebody as "love" is normal for English because it denotes both the notion and the person, right? (Like: Love, how are you feeling today?) In Ukrainian "кохання" (love) normally is not used in this case, better to say "кохана/коханий" (person that you love).
Now, the gender and declensions:

singular
Н. кохання (neutral!) - кохана (f) - коханий (m)
Р. кохання ----------- коханої ---- коханого
Д. коханню ---------- коханій ---- коханому
З. кохання ----------- кохану ----- коханого
О. коханням --------- коханою ---- коханим
М. коханні ----------- коханій ----- коханому
К. кохання! ---------- _кохано_! ---- коханий!

So, кохання and коханий have identical forms in nominative and vocative. I'm sure about that, but I have doubts about the feminine form. (To tell the truth, most of Ukrainians in everyday speech in the majority of cases never follow the rules and use vocative, so that's why I'm not one hundert per cent sure - I hear it very rarely!)  

Cheers and let's wait if anyone can clear our doubts!


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## mateo19

Natabka said:


> (To tell the truth, most of Ukrainians in everyday speech in the majority of cases never follow the rules and use vocative, so that's why I'm not one hundert per cent sure - I hear it very rarely!)



This is most interesting, Natalya.  So, what does this actually mean?  When I address you, should I say to say, "Наталя" or "Наталю"?  And when I address Marija, should I say, "Марія" or "Маріє"?  Am I Вітя! or Вітю! when someone is talking to me?  My Ukrainian book said that the nominative could also be used when addressing a person, but it said nothing about the vocative not being common. :-s  What do the rest of you out there think?


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## WannaBeMe

Serbian: Ljubavi (Dragá, Milá), ne putuj tim vozom (ili ne idi tim vozom).
Croatian: Ljubavi, ne putuj (ne idi) tim vlakom.
Serbian dialectical and Montenegrian: Ljubavi, ne putuj (ne idi) tijem vozom.


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## mateo19

That's cool to know.  Thank you, WannaBeMe!  I am always interesed in comparing the differences between Serbian and Croatian.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Slovenian: Ljubezen, ne potuj s tem vlakom! (Imperative sentences always end with an exclamation mark in Slovene.)


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## kusurija

In Czech:
Miláčku, nejezdi tím vlakem.


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## Natabka

mateo19 said:


> This is most interesting, Natalya.  So, what does this actually mean?  When I address you, should I say to say, "Наталя" or "Наталю"?  And when I address Marija, should I say, "Марія" or "Маріє"?  Am I Вітя! or Вітю! when someone is talking to me?  My Ukrainian book said that the nominative could also be used when addressing a person, but it said nothing about the vocative not being common. :-s  What do the rest of you out there think?



It means that you should say Наталю! Маріє! and Вітю!  But if you don't do so that wouldn't sound gross because, as I've already said, lots of people use proper names in nominative in speech (probably, they focus on grammar more when they write). The reason for this, I suppose, is that most people here are bilingual (Ukrainian and Russian) and Russian has no vocative (right, Russians?).
For examle, I always use vocative in formal writing (that is a mistake not to) as well as in informal, but in speech I can leave the name in nominative out of different - and often inexplicable )) - reasons. Like, it may seem too long or too difficult to change it into vocative.

P.S. When I said "I hear _it_ very rarely", I meant the word "кохана" used in vocative ;-))


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## Natabka

Natabka said:


> singular
> Н. кохання (neutral!) - кохана (f) - коханий (m)
> Р. кохання ----------- коханої ---- коханого
> Д. коханню ---------- коханій ---- коханому
> З. кохання ----------- кохану ----- коханого
> О. коханням --------- коханою ---- коханим
> М. коханні ----------- коханій ----- коханому
> К. кохання! ---------- коханa! ---- коханий!



I couldn't edit my previous post, so here's what I've found out 
There was no paradigm of "кохана" in my reference books, so I've done some asking around and everyone was absolutely sure that it sounds "Кохана!" in vocative. The only doubt is whether it is vocative  - as "кохана" is not a noun but a substantivized adjective, so it could have no vocative but could be used when addressing somebody in nominative.

Can anybody help with the problem?


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## heleona

Natabka said:


> I couldn't edit my previous post, so here's what I've found out
> There was no paradigm of "кохана" in my reference books, so I've done some asking around and everyone was absolutely sure that it sounds "Кохана!" in vocative. The only doubt is whether it is vocative  - as "кохана" is not a noun but a substantivized adjective, so it could have no vocative but could be used when addressing somebody in nominative.
> 
> Can anybody help with the problem?



I thought about that, too. I'd use 'моя кохан*а*', to me it sounds natural, but unfortunately I am not able to proof it with grammar. I only think it's the same case as 'моя мила', 'моя люба', and there you wouldn't use 'o' .


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## jazyk

It's simple. These words don't end in o because they are not nouns, they are adjectives, and adjectives have the same form in the vocative and nominative.


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## mateo19

Наталю, I think that you are absolutely right when you say we are dealing with substantivized adjectives.  It is like in Spanish (I can't use an English example because the morphology of my language is too impovrished) when one says, "¡(mi) querida!" instead of "¡amor mío!".  One is a true noun, amor, and the other is an adjective, querida, fulfilling the syntactical role of a noun.

Jazyk, I thank you for your simple and straightforward answer.  It is very clear. 

Heleona, if I even need to call someone "my love" in Ukrainian, I will say, "'моя коханa", do not worry.

Thank you to everyone else who contributed to this thread.  It was so interesting to read and I am appreciate for all the contributions.  Have a great day, everyone!
Majte sa pekne a prajem dobrý deň!


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