# متعالٍ



## yusufadam

When you add الْ to متعالٍ, I have seen both المتعالِ and المتعالي. 

Are they both correct?


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## Drink

As far as I know, only المتعالي is correct. It might be that in Classical Arabic المتعالِ occurs in pausal position, but I'm not sure.


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## PlanC

Hi,


yusufadam said:


> When you add الْ to متعالٍ, I have seen both المتعالِ and المتعالي.
> 
> Are they both correct?



In quranic context

المتعالي for Allah, is the Most High (see for exemple Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) verse 255 for the word الْعَلِيُّ)  that also implies the meaning that He is the highest upon all thing, nothing could affect Him no matter how the decadence or the baseness of creature are willing to be, neither their illusionary feeling of power and being safe and unreachable.

المتعالِ the word  apears only once in the noble Quran Surah Ar-Ra'd (The Thunder) verse 9: it means He (الله) is the highest by essence, regardless the existance of what He created, and nothing could be possibly imaginable to reach His statue, so this super-adjective is exclusively proper to Him by supremacy.

Outside this clause as in trivial context you could perfectly use المتعالي as superlative to designate someone or something which is comparatively in a higher rank or position, for person it also has a connotation of being proud.


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## Drink

PlanC said:


> المتعالي for Allah, is the Most High (see for exemple Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) verse 255)  that also implies the meaning that He is the highest upon all thing, nothing could affect Him no matter how the decadence or the baseness of creature are willing to be, neither their illusionary feeling of power and being safe and unreachable.



The word I find there is الْعَلِيُّ, not المتعالي.



PlanC said:


> المتعالِ the word  apears only once in the noble Quran Surah Ar-Ra'd (The Thunder) verse 9: it means He (الله) is the highest by essence, regardless the existance of what He created, and nothing could be possibly imaginable to reach His statue, so this super-adjective is exclusively proper to Him by supremacy.



As I predicted, that's the last word of the verse, which is a pausal position.


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## PlanC

Drink said:


> The word I find there is الْعَلِيُّ, not المتعالي.


Yes indeed i corrected my post, thank you so much for spotting this!

المتعالي  is an active participle (اسم الفاعل) which belongs to intensive form صيغ المبالغة , and which is derived from الْعَلِيُّ which is on his turn derived from the root verb علا, But المتعالي is more eloquente than the basic meaning. Foremore the general process to magnifying the meaning of a word goes like:  علا يعلو فاعتلى فوق التعالي فهو متعالي
So in arabic each extention in the structure of a given word emphasizes also it meaning.
Althought and as resulte
المتعالي is for الْعَلِيُّ
like القهار for القاهر,
or
المتجبر* for الجبار 
[* حشى لله]



> As I predicted, that's the last word of the surah, which is a pausal position.


If by _pausal position_ for المتعالِ  you mean _ممنوع من التصريف الاعراب  _I willingly add forbidden from imitation.


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## Drink

PlanC said:


> If by _pausal position_ for المتعالِ  you mean _ممنوع من التصريف الاعراب  _I willingly add forbidden from imitation.



In Classical Arabic, a lot more changes happen in pausal position than only the loss if إعراب. I cannot remember all of the rules and would have to look them up in a grammar book, but I remember that some rules had to do with changes between long and short vowels.


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## PlanC

Drink said:


> In Classical Arabic, a lot more changes happen in pausal position than only the loss if إعراب. I cannot remember all of the rules and would have to look them up in a grammar book, but I remember that some rules had to do with changes between long and short vowels.



Ah okay, you mean probably الجزم it cannot be performed against nouns,  more less the definite nouns by الـ,  unless the word is a verb, please feel free to ask any question that  goes along this situation, even by PM if you would, it will also give me  an opportunity to revise my grammar


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## Drink

PlanC said:


> Ah okay, you mean probably الجزم it cannot be performed against nouns,  more less the definite nouns by الـ,  unless the word is a verb, please feel free to ask any question that  goes along this situation, even by PM if you would, it will also give me  an opportunity to revise my grammar



No that's not what I mean. "Pausal position" is right before a pause (وقف).


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## PlanC

Drink said:


> No that's not what I mean. "Pausal position" is right before a pause (وقف).



الوقف لغة:الحبس والمنع لا سيما في أحكام التجويد أو آداب البلاغة في الشعر 

Yes in this case, what you've hinted is absolutely correct as far as it's a technique, used only in refined and sustained spoken language.


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## fdb

ٱلۡمُتَعَالِ is an irregular form, used because of the rhyme in -aal.


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## Drink

fdb said:


> ٱلۡمُتَعَالِ is an irregular form, used because of the rhyme in -aal.



Rhyme with what? I don't see any other nearby -aal (unless you count the one in the middle of the word عَالِمُ).


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## fdb

-aal and –aar count as a rhyme in the Qur’an. One or the other occurs at the end of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc.


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## Drink

fdb said:


> -aal and –aar count as a rhyme in the Qur’an. One or the other occurs at the end of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc.



Oh, I didn't realize -aar counted. Thanks!


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## Arabic_Police_999

fdb said:


> -aal and –aar count as a rhyme in the Qur’an. One or the other occurs at the end of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc.



can you give examples, I went to the end of chapter 8 and 9, but I couldn't find anything



fdb said:


> ٱلۡمُتَعَالِ is an irregular form, used because of the rhyme in -aal.





> -aal and –aar count as a rhyme in the Qur’an. One or the other occurs at the end of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc.


I don't think it's a matter of aaX nor rhyming, but it's about the ي at the end
"والليل إذا يسر" yasre from yasree يسري (no aaX here)
"ربِّ نجني من القوم" rabbe from rabbee ربّي (it doesn't rhyme in this context)
"وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ" da'aane from da'aanee دعاني, and daa'e from daa'ee داعي
"الكبير المتعال" mota'aale from mota'aalee متعالي, 
I don't think that the ي(long vowel) was replaced by shorter vowel for the sake of rhyming,


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## akhooha

I believe fdb was referring to verses 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc. of Chapter 13  (سورة الرعد)


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## fdb

akhooha said:


> I believe fdb was referring to verses 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 etc. of Chapter 13  (سورة الرعد)



Yes, exactly, as mentioned in no. 4.



Arabic_Police_999 said:


> I don't think that the ي(long vowel) was replaced by shorter vowel for the sake of rhyming,



I agree. The issue here is the dropping of the final long vowel to create a rhyme with a حرف ساكن .


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## PlanC

Arabic_Police_999 said:


> I don't think that the ي(long vowel) was replaced by shorter vowel for the sake of rhyming,


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