# Hindi&Sanskrit: Siddhanta



## Lotfi MA

Helo everybody!

"Siddhanta" is an Indian phrase - possibly Hindi, or else.
Could someone please tell me its meaning, and the language to which it belongs.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## panjabigator

It looks Sanskritic in origin.  I'll do my best to figure it out.


----------



## linguist786

"Surya Sidhaanta" is a name of some Hindu astronomical work/book.. if that helps.
I haven't a clue what it actually means though. Like panjabigator said, it sounds very Sanskritic to me too.


----------



## choppy seas

Lotfi MA said:


> Helo everybody!
> 
> "Siddhanta" is an Indian phrase - possibly Hindi, or else.
> Could someone please tell me its meaning, and the language to which it belongs.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The term is from Sanskrit.It is also used in Hindi where the a is silent. The literal meaning, as used by the ancient Hindus, were the principles whereby life was led.It is one of those distinctively cultural terms in languages,which one can really appreciate only if one is of that culture 
   Another example is the word dharma.


----------



## linguist786

choppy seas said:


> The term is from Sanskrit.It is also used in Hindi where the a is silent. The literal meaning, as used by the ancient Hindus, were the principles whereby life was led.It is one of those distinctively cultural terms in languages,which one can really appreciate only if one is of that culture
> Another example is the word dharma.


Do you know how it would be spelt in Hindi?


----------



## panjabigator

siddhaant

I dont have a typing program on this comp, but that's what it would look like.  Half "d" and full "dh."


----------



## linguist786

Ah gotcha. You mean: सिद्धांत


----------



## Lotfi MA

Panjabigator,
Thanks indeed for any endeavour you might make.

Linguist786,
Though I knew already that it was a name of an astronomical book, your addition “Surya” and correction “Sidhaanta” are really great.  Deep appreciation.

Choppy seas
Your explanation is really valuable; thanks a lot for that.

Gentlement:
I would still be waiting for your or any one else’s specific answer to the meaning of “Surya Sidhaanta”.  Please keep in mind that I am completely illiterate of all Indian nationals’ languages.


----------



## choppy seas

Lotfi MA said:


> Panjabigator,
> Thanks indeed for any endeavour you might make.
> 
> Linguist786,
> Though I knew already that it was a name of an astronomical book, your addition “Surya” and correction “Sidhaanta” are really great. Deep appreciation.
> 
> Choppy seas
> Your explanation is really valuable; thanks a lot for that.
> 
> Gentlement:
> I would still be waiting for your or any one else’s specific answer to the meaning of “Surya Sidhaanta”. Please keep in mind that I am completely illiterate of all Indian nationals’ languages.


 From what I know Surya Siddhanta is an ancient Hindu religious text for the worship of the Sun.However I am not hundred percent certain on that. Surya in any case means sun! As with Zorastrianism, the Sun has something of a religious significance in Hinduism. I would advice you to read about the pre-Islamic religions of Arabia as from what little I know many of their practices were carried on into Hinduism.


----------



## Lotfi MA

“many of their practices were carried on into Hinduism“.. Wonderful information, Chopper Seas, since it symmetrizes with the fact that sea trade had been found centuries before Islam between Arabia and Indian subcontent!

Generally, What makes me ask for the meaning of that name is a research I have almost finished that touches on an astronomical (NOT RELIGIOUS NOR MATH) Indian book which had been translated into Arabic circa 773AD.
That book is said to have been brought to Baghdad by some Indian guy called Kankah (or so), and some contemporary sources say that that book was “Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta”, written by Brahmagupta.

Furthermore, it is said that Brahmagupta had written TWO BOOKS: this one on mathematics, and another one titled: Khandakhadyaka on astronomy.

Knowing that Arabs never used to translate names, so they gave the meant book the transliterated title “Sind Hind”.  So I want to make sure which one of them, if any, through both meanings: Khandakhadyaka, and Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta.


----------



## karuna

_Siddhānta _really means "perfect or ultimate principles, philosophy or teaching". It has little to do with the principles of life which is called _dharma_. You could divide this word into _siddha — _perfection, speciality or achievement; and _anta — _end_. _In other words _siddhānta _the is end of teachings or ultimate teachings.


----------



## choppy seas

karuna said:


> _Siddhānta _really means "perfect or ultimate principles, philosophy or teaching". It has little to do with the principles of life which is called _dharma_. You could divide this word into _siddha — _perfection, speciality or achievement; and _anta — _end_. _In other words _siddhānta _the is end of teachings or ultimate teachings.


Karuna you are wrong! Dharma refers to the difference between right and wrong and was an unwritten code by which the ancient Hindus lived.It also refers to a whole way of life.There is thus a subtle difference with Siddhanta,which refers to principles. The present term in Hindi has the same meaning!
 I am well-versed in the culture of my fore-fathers....


----------



## karuna

I don't know Hindi but in Sanskrit both words have very specific meanings that you can confirm in the dictionary. _Dharma _also has a meaning of _sva-bhāva – _one's own inherent nature, or more figuratively, the duty one has to perform. I don't think that there was a single ancient Hindu culture. The philosophical and religious schools in India are numerous and diverse with very different ideologies despite sharing the same principal concepts.


----------



## choppy seas

karuna said:


> I don't know Hindi but in Sanskrit both words have very specific meanings that you can confirm in the dictionary. _Dharma _also has a meaning of _sva-bhāva – _one's own inherent nature, or more figuratively, the duty one has to perform. I don't think that there was a single ancient Hindu culture. The philosophical and religious schools in India are numerous and diverse with very different ideologies despite sharing the same principal concepts.


I am not interested in your rigid dictionary definitions,a lot depends on what dictionary you are referring to. Not all are reliable,particularly as we are dealing with a virtually dead language,that is Sanskrit. Anyone with any idea of what I am talking about, will also know that most Indian languages, including Hindi, are derived from Sanskrit. Therefore to discuss Sanskrit in isolation is meaningless as it is, I repeat dead!
  As to your perspective on Hindu culture, each one is entitled to his perspective.It is by and large, now recognized in India, that there was an unified Hindu culture. There have been a variety of philosophical and religious schools undoubtedly,and many reform movements also. However there has been at the same time, an unified Hindu culture and tradition. It is well to note that Hinduism is not a strict codified religion, as Christianity or Islam,and the prevalence of a variety of streams has been an integral characteristic. You have the same characteristic in Judaism.
  To state otherwise would be something like my saying that the Latvians and other Baltic republics, have by and large been under  Mother Russia, and they have no real identities or consciousness of their own.


----------



## choppy seas

Lotfi MA said:


> “many of their practices were carried on into Hinduism“.. Wonderful information, Chopper Seas, since it symmetrizes with the fact that sea trade had been found centuries before Islam between Arabia and Indian subcontent!
> 
> Generally, What makes me ask for the meaning of that name is a research I have almost finished that touches on an astronomical (NOT RELIGIOUS NOR MATH) Indian book which had been translated into Arabic circa 773AD.
> That book is said to have been brought to Baghdad by some Indian guy called Kankah (or so), and some contemporary sources say that that book was “Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta”, written by Brahmagupta.
> 
> Furthermore, it is said that Brahmagupta had written TWO BOOKS: this one on mathematics, and another one titled: Khandakhadyaka on astronomy.
> 
> Knowing that Arabs never used to translate names, so they gave the meant book the transliterated title “Sind Hind”. So I want to make sure which one of them, if any, through both meanings: Khandakhadyaka, and Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta.


Very interesting. I am currently reading  the Koran!


----------



## karuna

choppy seas said:


> Not all are reliable,particularly as we are dealing with a virtually dead language,that is Sanskrit. Anyone with any idea of what I am talking about, will also know that most Indian languages, including Hindi, are derived from Sanskrit. Therefore to discuss Sanskrit in isolation is meaningless as it is, I repeat dead!



_Sūrya-siddhānta _was written in Sanskrit around 400 AD. I don't see how the present day Hindi usage (in case the meaning has changed) could have any influence to the title of the work. 

Also it is interesting that most South Indian languages belong to the Dravidian language family that has no relation with Sanskrit.


----------



## karuna

choppy seas said:


> It is well to note that Hinduism is not a strict codified religion, as Christianity or Islam,and the prevalence of a variety of streams has been an integral characteristic.



I didn't mean to say that there is no unified Indian (Hindu) culture. I just don't think that it is valid to compare Hinduism with Christianity or Islam as single religions. For example, _advaita _and _vaishnava _schools within Hinduism is much further apart in their practices and philosophy than Islam is from Christianity. To say that Surya worship is important to Hinduists is equal to the overgeneralized statement that the worship of Virgin Mary is important to Westerners. In the same way, to establish the proper meaning of a Sanskrit term we have to dig deeper into the exact context rather than generalize whole Hindu culture.


----------



## choppy seas

karuna said:


> I didn't mean to say that there is no unified Indian (Hindu) culture. I just don't think that it is valid to compare Hinduism with Christianity or Islam as single religions. For example, _advaita _and _vaishnava _schools within Hinduism is much further apart in their practices and philosophy than Islam is from Christianity. To say that Surya worship is important to Hinduists is equal to the overgeneralized statement that the worship of Virgin Mary is important to Westerners. In the same way, to establish the proper meaning of a Sanskrit term we have to dig deeper into the exact context rather than generalize whole Hindu culture.[/quote
> As I mentioned before Hinduism is a recognized world religion, whether you accept it as such or not. It is however not a religion in the sense in which you would understand Christianity and Islam.That was the whole point of the last thread I sent you. Generalisations about Hindu culture are being made by you,to which I have responded with my own perspective.I am not a specialist in  either Sanskrit or Hindi,but there are certain erronous misconceptions on your part, which I disagreed with and on which I have commented upon.
> Your ignorance of Indian languages is borne out by the assumption that you attribute most of them as being of the Dravidian family! This is wrong on two counts-
> 1. The Dravidian languages refer only to the Southern branch of languages, including my mother-tongue Malayalam. All these languages have inter-linkages with Sanskrit.My own language is eighty-percent Sanskrit.
> 2.Apart form this there is the Indo-European group of languages and the Indo-Tibetan group.
> Greek has for example had a very strong influence on Sanskrit.Similarly the name of the country is itself derived from the Greek term -Indica. The basic point I am making, is that it is erronous to consider languages in terms of water-tight compartments.Again I do not claim to be a specialist!


----------



## Lotfi MA

Dear Karuna,
My deep appreciation for your endeavor to help. Generally your and Chopper seas debate has widened a bit my knowlege of the matter.


----------

