# He visto/vi esa película



## ChocolateLover

Hola a todos:

En partes de Latinoamérica y España se dice "he visto esa película" y en el resto de Latinoamérica se dice "vi esa película" ¿no?

El contexto:

¿Has visto esa película?/¿Viste esa película?

Gracias


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## Perrito

Yes, that's right!  In Latin America, vi esa película is most common, but in Spain, he visto esa película.  He visto is used for things that happened recently.  

Hoy, me he levantado y he ido al parque.  (Spain)
Hoy, me levanté y fui al parque.  (L.A.)

In parts of Andalucia the present perfect is not used in that way, and León.  I'm sure there are other areas, but this is the basic idea of it all.  

Greg


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## ChocolateLover

Thank you very much

If you do not say the time period, in Latin Amerca could you say "he visto la película"?

¿En partes de Latinoamérica se dice "hoy he visto la película"?

Gracias


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## elianecanspeak

In northern Spain, and I think by  RA rules, you use the *pretérito perfecto* (the conjugated form of "haber" with the past participle) when speaking of an event that took place :

1.  In the "recent past", ie, within the past 24 hours or within any time frame modified by "este" (esta semana, esta siglo, esta década, esta época, este año, este mes) which locates the action within a current period, or that is specifically located in the present period by any other device (I am sure there must be other ways, like a response to a question menioning the period, etc) 

2.  For things that happewned in an unspecified period (He visto esta pelicula, Ella ha pilotado el avión de su papá muchas veces)

3. With "nunca" when referring to an unspecified period (Nunca he visto nado como eso)


I think 3 could be part of 2, but use with "nunca" is so common that I thought it deserved its own number.


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## iskndarbey

Rarely is the present perfect grammatically required, but it's often preferred according to a speaker's dialect. I've seen studies showing that the highest density of present perfect usage in Spanish conversation is Madrid, where it's used in about 70% of instances where it would make grammatical sense, and the lowest usage rate is Buenos Aires where it's used in about 20% of such cases. Something similar happens in English, although I don't think the differences are so great.

(It's definitely wrong to say that you can _never_ say "He visto esa película" in Latin America, though.)


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## elianecanspeak

iskndarbey said:


> I've seen studies showing that the highest density of present perfect usage in Spanish conversation is Madrid, where it's used in about 70% of instances where it would make grammatical sense, and the lowest usage rate is Buenos Aires where it's used in about 20% of such cases.



Do you have a citation for the study?  (I'm not doubting you, I just would like to read the article-- I'm not current in the field any more)


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## willikvrvf

The perfect tense is used to talk about two periods of time, the past and the present, about something that begins in the past and ends in the present. But in many parts of Latinamerica it would sound very rare to talk about the past using the word "today". 

Instead, with negations and in questions it is very common:  "No he visto esa película (todavía)", "Nunca he comido cheviche", "¿Has visto la película?", "¿Has comido ceviche? etc etc.

However, "he visto esa película más de 10 veces" would be said by any Spanish speaking person.


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## caniho

elianecanspeak said:


> In northern Spain, and I think by  RA rules, you use the *pretérito perfecto* (the conjugated form of "haber" with the past participle) when speaking of an event that took place :
> 
> 1.  In the "recent past", ie, within the past 24 hours or within any time frame modified by "este" (esta semana, esta siglo, esta década, esta época, este año, este mes) which locates the action within a current period, or that is specifically located in the present period by any other device (I am sure there must be other ways, like a response to a question menioning the period, etc)
> 
> 2.  For things that happewned in an unspecified period (He visto esta pelicula, Ella ha pilotado el avión de su papá muchas veces)
> 
> 3. With "nunca" when referring to an unspecified period (Nunca he visto nado como eso)
> 
> 
> I think 3 could be part of 2, but use with "nunca" is so common that I thought it deserved its own number.



You're absolutely right about the usage, but it's actually the other way round regarding location. It is precisely in some parts of Northern Spain that they don't use the perfect tense. I'm talking of the Northwest  corner of the Iberian Peninsula, and the same happens in the Canary Isles.

Cheers.


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## caniho

Perrito said:


> Yes, that's right!  In Latin America, vi esa película is most common, but in Spain, he visto esa película.  He visto is used for things that happened recently.
> 
> Hoy, me he levantado y he ido al parque.  (Spain)
> Hoy, me levanté y fui al parque.  (L.A.)
> 
> In parts of Andalucia the present perfect is not used in that way, and León.  I'm sure there are other areas, but this is the basic idea of it all.
> 
> Greg



Regards.


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## elianecanspeak

caniho said:


> You're absolutely right about the usage, but it's actually the other way round regarding location. It is precisely in some parts of Northern Spain that they don't use the perfect tense. I'm talking of the Northwest  corner of the Iberian Peninsula, and the same happens in the Canary Isles



Ah! I lived in the north-east corner.  So if it is not used in Galicia and the Canaries, is it because of the influence of Gallego and Portuguese?


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## ChocolateLover

Muchas gracias a todos



> However, "he visto esa película más de 10 veces" would be said by any Spanish speaking person.


Some people still prefer "vi esa película más de 10 veces," right? In Chile, are both common?

¿Alguien sabe si en Latinoamérica sería común en cierto país decir "hoy he visto esa película"? ¿El tiempo es el "presente perfecto"?

¿En Latinoamérica y España es común decir "recientemente hemos estado estudiando mucho"/hemos estado estudiando inglés durante 3 años?

Thank you


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## Perrito

¿Alguien sabe si en Latinoamérica sería común en cierto país decir "hoy  he visto esa película"? ¿El tiempo es el "presente perfecto"?

I _think _it's only in Spain...nowhere in Latin America.


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## i heart queso

I agree with Perrito... I think only in Spain would they say "hoy he  visto". But, that's just an idea of mine.



ChocolateLover said:


> ¿En Latinoamérica y España es común decir "recientemente hemos estado estudiando mucho"/hemos estado estudiando inglés durante 3 años?
> 
> Thank you



The first sentence sounds fine to me, although I would change "recientemente" to "últimamente".

The second sentence is a bit weirder, I would probably just say "llevamos tres años estudiando inglés". 

Native speakers...?!


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## elianecanspeak

Perrito said:


> ¿El tiempo es el "presente perfecto"?



No, es el *pretérito* perfecto, porque no es en el presente, es en el pasado.


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## Perrito

Your right, although depending on what grammar book you read, some will call it the present perfect and others the pretérito perfecto.  That's how WR classifies it in its conjugation tool.  The other tense is: Había visto, which is confusing becuase some people call that the pluscuamperfecto and others call it the past perfect.  Ha ha!  Qué lío!


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## elianecanspeak

Perrito said:


> . . .  depending on what grammar book you read, some will call it the present perfect and others the pretérito perfecto.  That's how WR classifies it in its conjugation tool. . .  Que lio!



My Spanish grammars use "_*pretérito perfecto*_". Barron's Spanish Verbs is the only English book I have, and it uses _"*perfecto de indicativo*"_.  Because in French (j'*ai mangé*)  and Italian (*ho mangiato*) this tense is used to describe a completed action,  the way the _*pretérito indefinido*_ is used in Spanish, it makes more sense to see why it is called "perfecto", theoretically indicating a completed action.

I also noticed this in a grammar published in Spain for second language learners:  "*Atención:* El uso del pretérito perfecto es casi inexistente en algunas regiones del norte de España y en gran parte de América Latina", 
-- which is exactly what our cosmopolitan foreros have been telling us.

Also: see this site : http://culturitalia.uibk.ac.at/hisp...o indicativo- indefinido España y América.htm


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## iskndarbey

I take issue with the "casi inexistente". Unfortunately I can't find the data I mentioned at the moment but my experience, from living in Madrid, Buenos Aires and Peru, is that while there are large differences in rate of use, virtually every native Spanish speaker uses this tense many times a day. If you self-consciously avoid using this tense 100% of the time, your speech will sound very unnatural even in areas where it's supposedly "casi inexistente".

This comes up on the English forums as well -- people will ask "In the UK I say 'I have seen a movie' and in the US I say 'I saw a movie', right?" while in reality perfect tense is significantly more common in the UK but still used dozens of times a day by every American.

(For the record, I took a CELTA course and learned that the use of the present perfect is virtually nonexistent in New York City and Boston, which is errant nonsense.)


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## caniho

elianecanspeak said:


> My Spanish grammars use "_*pretérito perfecto*_". Barron's Spanish Verbs is the only English book I have, and it uses _"*perfecto de indicativo*"_.  Because in French (j'*ai mangé*)  and Italian (*ho mangiato*) this tense is used to describe a completed action,  the way the _*pretérito indefinido*_ is used in Spanish, it makes more sense to see why it is called "perfecto", theoretically indicating a completed action.



I have no idea what are you talking about. I don't know about French or Italian, but in Spanish both _cantaste_ and _has cantado_ are perfect tenses that are used to describe completed actions. Actually, I remember I learnt them at school as 'pretérito perfecto simple de indicativo' and 'pretérito perfecto compuesto de indicativo' respectively, but regardless of the names the important thing to notice is that _has cantado_ is opposed to _cantas_, whereas _habías cantado/cantaste_ is the other pair. _Cantaste_ and _has cantado_ are no directly opposed, it's only trough the present _cantas_ that they are so.

Let me explain myself. When you say _cantaste_, you're implying that the moment you sang belongs to the past, as opposed to cantas (=estás cantando). _Hoy_ is not a time frame that belongs to the past, that's the reason why a sentence like '_hoy por fin vi la película_' sounds impossible for most Spaniards. On the other hand, if you say _has cantado_, that means that the act of singing is prior to what it was if I'd said _cantas_, but in both cases it belongs to the same time frime, one that includes the moment of speech.


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## caniho

iskndarbey said:


> I take issue with the "casi inexistente". Unfortunately I can't find the data I mentioned at the moment but my experience, from living in Madrid, Buenos Aires and Peru, is that while there are large differences in rate of use, virtually every native Spanish speaker uses this tense many times a day. If you self-consciously avoid using this tense 100% of the time, your speech will sound very unnatural even in areas where it's supposedly "casi inexistente".
> 
> This comes up on the English forums as well -- people will ask "In the UK I say 'I have seen a movie' and in the US I say 'I saw a movie', right?" while in reality perfect tense is significantly more common in the UK but still used dozens of times a day by every American.
> 
> (For the record, I took a CELTA course and learned that the use of the present perfect is virtually nonexistent in New York City and Boston, which is errant nonsense.)



That makes a lot of sense. It is really easy to spot an usage that's different from what you'd say, but similar usages go unnoticed. In my case a sentence like 'todavía no vino' really stands out, but if someone from LA say 'todavía no ha venido', I won't notice. I've even read sometimes that Spaniards don't use the simple past too must, which is something that borders on the absurd.


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## OrCuS

It depends on the dialect, just like in English, some would say "I haven't seen that movie" (UK mostly) and others would go with "I didn't see that movie" (USA). Correct me if i'm wrong.


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## Spug

Hello orcus,



OrCuS said:


> It depends on the dialect, just like in English, some would say "I haven't seen that movie" (UK mostly) and others would go with "I didn't see that movie" (USA). Correct me if i'm wrong.



You're not necessarily wrong, but I think it's a bit more involved, at least in AE.

I really don't perceive much, if any, difference between the way we use the past tense (did you see) and the present perfect tense (have you seen) in AE and the way Latin Americans use _viste _and _has visto_, respectively. I hear a subtle difference in meaning between the two tenses that is parallel in both languages.

In AE, if you ask me, "Have you seen that movie?," my sense is that the movie is still in the theaters, and I could go see it today. On the other hand, if you ask me, "Did you see that movie?," I think of a movie that is no longer in the theaters, so I no longer have a chance to see it. I hear the same distinction in meaning among my Latin American colleagues when they use the corresponding tenses in Spanish. In the present perfect, there is the sense that the action being spoken about could still take place. In the past tense, on the other hand, there is the sense that the action either took place or did not, but that it's unlikely to take place now or in the future.

In other words, the use of these tenses in AE and Latin American Spanish is, in my experience, very nearly parallel. It's definitely not something that I think about much when I'm speaking Spanish - I just use the corresponding tense from AE.

Saludos...


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## OrCuS

You are right Spug: American Spanish and English speakers user those tenses the same way, and so do we here in Europe (in Spain and UK/Ireland).


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## ChocolateLover

Thank you very much 



> That makes a lot of sense. It is really easy to spot an usage that's different from what you'd say, but similar usages go unnoticed. In my case a sentence like *'todavía no vin*o' really stands out, but if someone from LA say *'todavía no ha ven*ido', I won't notice. I've even read sometimes that Spaniards don't use the simple past too must, which is something that borders on the absurd




For you, is "todavía no vino" correct? Also, I have seen "el presente perfecto" and "el preterito perfecto." Are both of these correct?

Thanks


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## elianecanspeak

[First paragraph edited out because it duplicated almost exactly what Spug said in post#21.  I even used the word subtle.  It must have been one of those cases of unconscious plagiarism.]

On the other hand, if someone says  (accusingly or not) "Have you seen my Indonesian dictionary?" I would answer "I _*haven't seen*_ it" , and *not* "I didn't see it", which would make no sense in this context.  I might, however, answer "I _*didn't tak*e_ it".


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## aommoa

ChocolateLover said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> 
> 
> For you, is "todavía no vino" correct? Also, I have seen "el presente perfecto" and "el preterito perfecto." Are both of these correct?
> 
> Thanks



todavía noo vino you are waiting that he came, but you are sure he have to come

todavía  no ha venido, you are waitnig theat he came but you are  not sure if he will come


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## OrCuS

aommoa said:


> todavía noo vino you are waiting that he came, but you are sure he have to come
> 
> todavía  no ha venido, you are waitnig theat he came but you are  not sure if he will come



I don't think this is right for most Spain, you must be from one of the few dialects in Spain that tend to use past simple. I have never heard any Spaniard say "todavía no vino" and it sounds awkward to me. It would sound fine if someone from the other side of the Atlantic said it, but surely it would sound weird on someone with a Spanish accent.

Again, I think *in general* Americans (both languages) would say "Todavía no vino\He didn't come yet" and Europeans "Todavía no ha venido\He hasn't come yet". But of course there are exceptions...


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## aommoa

i don´t use the past by the way, but to me it have this sense


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## Spug

OrCuS said:


> ...I think *in general* Americans (both languages) would say "Todavía no vino\He didn't come yet"...



In AE we're far more likely to say "He hasn't come yet." The adverb _yet_ typically calls for the present perfect tense. If we say, "He didn't come", we typically mean he did not come and he will not be coming.

I'll leave it to the native Latin American speakers to comment about this use in Spanish. 

Saludos...


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## OrCuS

Spug said:


> In AE we're far more likely to say "He hasn't come yet." The adverb _yet_ typically calls for the present perfect tense. If we say, "He didn't come", we typically mean he did not come and he will not be coming.
> 
> I'll leave it to the native Latin American speakers to comment about this use in Spanish.
> 
> Saludos...



I was wrong then, thank you for telling.


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## elianecanspeak

Spug said:


> In AE we're far more likely to say "He hasn't come yet." The adverb _yet_ typically calls for the present perfect tense. If we say, "He didn't come", we typically mean he did not come and he will not be coming.\



I concur with Spug again.


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## i heart queso

aommoa said:


> todavía noo vino you are waiting that he came* for him to come*, but you are sure he have to *will *come
> 
> todavía  no ha venido, you are waitnig theat he came *waiting for him to come *but you are  not sure if he will come


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## ChocolateLover

Thank you very much

Regards


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## elianecanspeak

OrCuS said:


> Again, I think *in general* Americans (both languages) would say "Todavía no vino\*He didn't come yet*" and Europeans "Todavía no ha venido\He hasn't come yet". But of course there are exceptions...



I was just re-reading this thread and noticed this.

"He hasn't  come yet" is fine, because it implies the possibility that he still might come.  THE PERSENT PERFECT  IN english can be used with unspecific expressions of time
(see: http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html)

The "yet" cannot be appended to "He did not come" because the "did" (simple past) places the event in the past and closes it off from future consideration, just as we cannot say "he did not come tomorrow", since tomorrow has not yet occurred.


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## OrCuS

elianecanspeak said:


> I was just re-reading this thread and noticed this.
> 
> "He hasn't  come yet" is fine, because it implies the possibility that he still might come.  THE PERSENT PERFECT  IN english can be used with unspecific expressions of time
> (see: http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html)
> 
> The "yet" cannot be appended to "He did not come" because the "did" (simple past) places the event in the past and closes it off from future consideration, just as we cannot say "he did not come tomorrow", since tomorrow has not yet occurred.



Of course. But those rules are all the same in Spanish with "todavía" and in many dialects (mostly in America), they say "Todavía no vino" anyway, which sounds horrible to me.


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## Mari Mari

Perrito said:


> ¿Alguien sabe si en Latinoamérica sería común en cierto país decir "hoy he visto esa película"? ¿El tiempo es el "presente perfecto"?
> 
> I _think _it's only in Spain...nowhere in Latin America.


 


HE VISTO - El tiempo es preterito perfecto de indicativo. Se forma del verbo haber (he, has, ha, hemos, habeís,han) y participio pasado (en este caso - visto, es un participio pasado irregular del verbo ver). 
Creo que el preterito perfecto se usa en Espana y si se puede decir hoy he visto una pelicula. (En America Latina no se usa. Pero como siempre puedes encontrar una excepción mejor decir no es comun  )En unos partes de espana he visto = vi, pero segun las reglas de la gramatica de la lengua castellana hay diferencia entre esas dos formas. HE VISTO se usa para decir que has visto una pelicula en el pasado muy reciente o en un tiempo que se prolonga hasta el presente (hoy, esta semana, este dia,...). VÍ (preterito indefinido) se usa para decir que viste una pelicula en un momento que esta situado en el pasado y no es relacionado con el presente. El preterito indefinido describe una accion empezada y terminada en el pasado.

salu2


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## iskndarbey

I've been listening for this recently because of this thread and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt the use of this tense is not remotely rare in Peru. For the past week I've probably come across it 100 times a day, in casual conversation, university lectures, newspapers, IM chats, etc. It may be more common in Spain, but to say it's not used in Latin America is as absurd as saying Latin Americans all eat tacos and burritos.


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## OhPorDios

Hi, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread with complicated definitions.

Here in Argentina we say:
 Ya ví esa película. - Hoy ví esa película. - Nunca la ví. - La ví varias veces. - Todavía no la ví. (a la película)

Saying "Ya la he visto" o "Hoy he visto esa película" sounds foreign here. But other LA countries do use "he visto".

Sorry, I'm not familiar with tenses names.


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## Mari Mari

iskndarbey said:


> I've been listening for this recently because of this thread and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt the use of this tense is not remotely rare in Peru. For the past week I've probably come across it 100 times a day, in casual conversation, university lectures, newspapers, IM chats, etc. It may be more common in Spain, but to say it's not used in Latin America is as absurd as saying Latin Americans all eat tacos and burritos.


 
Lo siento si no estas de acuerdo, pero sigo pensando lo que he dicho. Además cada uno tiene derecho a su opinión, no veo ningún problema aquí...


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## elianecanspeak

Mari Mari said:


> Lo siento si no estas de acuerdo, pero sigo pensando lo que he dicho. Además cada uno tiene derecho a su opinión, no veo ningún problema aquí...



  Nadie dice que se usa tanto en América Latina como en España, sino solamente que se usa allá.  He visto mapas de distribución del uso, pero no tengo mis libros conmigo y no puedo citar fuentes para tí.


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## Mari Mari

elianecanspeak said:


> Nadie dice que se usa tanto en América Latina como en España, sino solamente que se usa allá. He visto mapas de distribución del uso, pero no tengo mis libros conmigo y no puedo citar fuentes para tí.


 
Vale, perdon si te ha molestado mi comentario. 
Yo también he dicho que siempre hay excepciones...
Lo que es importante es si un estranjero dice "he visto una pelicula" la gente allí le van a comprender eso si.


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## swift

Buenos días:

No sé cuántas veces se puede preguntar lo mismo. Una frase aislada no es suficiente contexto para determinar nada. La frase "he visto esa película" es tan posible en América como lo es en España.

Una conversación como la siguiente es perfectamente imaginable y usual en América:

- ¿Quieres ver Titanic conmigo?
- No, gracias. He visto esa película 7 veces.

Otro caso usual:

- Me da la impresión de que ya he visto esa película.


Sinceramente, multiplicar las consultas no va a ser de ayuda alguna en la comprensión del solapamiento de esas dos formas del pasado. 

Un saludo,


swift


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## Mari Mari

swift said:


> Buenos días:
> 
> No sé cuántas veces se puede preguntar lo mismo. Una frase aislada no es suficiente contexto para determinar nada. La frase "he visto esa película" es tan posible en América como lo es en España.
> 
> Una conversación como la siguiente es perfectamente imaginable y usual en América:
> 
> - ¿Quieres ver Titanic conmigo?
> - No, gracias. He visto esa película 7 veces.
> 
> Otro caso usual:
> 
> - Me da la impresión de que ya he visto esa película.
> 
> 
> Sinceramente, multiplicar las consultas no va a ser de ayuda alguna en la comprensión del solapamiento de esas dos formas del pasado.
> 
> Un saludo,
> 
> 
> swift


 

Hola! 

Yo con HOY usaria HE VISTO
Y con 7 VECES usaria VÍ
y lo puedo explicar. 
HOY es un periodo del tiempo que todavia dura, quiero decir esta conectado con el presente. Por eso usaria el preterito perfecto.
El otro exemplo con 7 VECES significa que ya has visto esa pelicula 7 veces y que esa accion ha empezado y se ha terminado en el pasado, aparte de eso no tiene consecuencias en el presente por eso en este caso usaria el indifinido y diria ví la pelicula 7 veces.
Es que en algunos ejemplos como estos esta muy claro que tiempo hay que usar y mas si tienes un marcador como HOY. 
No digo que alguien no puede decir otra cosa pero segun la gramatica eso esta muy clarito.

salu2


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## iskndarbey

Mari Mari said:


> Vale, perdon si te ha molestado mi comentario.
> Yo también he dicho que siempre hay excepciones...
> Lo que es importante es si un estranjero dice "he visto una pelicula" la gente allí le van a comprender eso si.



Como he dicho, todos los nativos, por lo menos aquí en Perú, usan este tiempo verbal múltiples veces a diario. No es una "excepción" sino una parte normal de la lengua, tanto aquí como en España.


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## Mari Mari

iskndarbey said:


> Como he dicho, todos los nativos, por lo menos aquí en Perú, usan este tiempo verbal múltiples veces a diario. No es una "excepción" sino una parte normal de la lengua, tanto aquí como en España.


 
"todos los nativos"? estas seguro? la verdad que no los conozco muchos pero los que conozco no hablan asi. ademas esa conversacion ha perdido sentido. tu tienes tu opinion y yo la mia, no vamos a pelearse por eso eh?


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## iskndarbey

Mari Mari said:


> "todos los nativos"? estas seguro? la verdad que no los conozco muchos pero los que conozco no hablan asi. ademas esa conversacion ha perdido sentido. tu tienes tu opinion y yo la mia, no vamos a pelearse por eso eh?



¿Alguna vez has ido a Perú? Solo describo la realidad lingüística acá: si vienes, oirás "he hecho", etc., cien veces por día. No se puede discutir.


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## Peterdg

@Mari Mari
Empleas una definición muy clásica sobre el uso del pasado compuesto (una que me enseñaron ya hace 20 años). La realidad es más matizada y mucho más compleja, como puedes comprobar en la "Nueva gramática de la lengua española", editida por la RAE.

La regla que utilizas en tus argumentos, describe el uso del perfecto compuesto sólo de parte de España (y también en ciertas partes de AL).

Sin embargo, en diferentes regiones, el perfecto compuesto tiene otros matices que en otras regiones, pero se utiliza. Hay muy pocos lugares en el mundo hispanohablante en que no se utilice de todo.


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## loreG

OhPorDios said:


> Hi, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread with complicated definitions.
> 
> Here in Argentina we say:
> Ya ví esa película. - Hoy ví esa película. - Nunca la ví. - La ví varias veces. - Todavía no la ví. (a la película)
> 
> Saying "Ya la he visto" o "Hoy he visto esa película" sounds foreign here. But other LA countries do use "he visto".
> 
> Sorry, I'm not familiar with tenses names.


 
 Hi everybody!
It is a very interesting discussion! 
You are talking about Buenos Aires (the Capital City) because it is very common to use the present perfect in the rest of our country. Well, I have to say that in Patagonia Argentina it is not so common. The reason of this is that most of the people living there now are "porteños" (they born in Buenos Aires)


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## crazybrava

Mari Mari said:


> Hola!
> 
> Yo con HOY usaria HE VISTO
> Y con 7 VECES usaria VÍ
> y lo puedo explicar.
> HOY es un periodo del tiempo que todavia dura, quiero decir esta conectado con el presente. Por eso usaria el preterito perfecto.
> El otro exemplo con 7 VECES significa que ya has visto esa pelicula 7 veces y que esa accion ha empezado y se ha terminado en el pasado, aparte de eso no tiene consecuencias en el presente por eso en este caso usaria el indifinido y diria ví la pelicula 7 veces.
> Es que en algunos ejemplos como estos esta muy claro que tiempo hay que usar y mas si tienes un marcador como HOY.
> No digo que alguien no puede decir otra cosa pero segun la gramatica eso esta muy clarito.
> 
> salu2



Hola Mari Mari - no entiendo porque insistes en
"7 veces la vi"
pero dices
"significa que ya has visto esa pelicula 7 veces"

Me puede explicar cual es la diferencia en el uso entre "tu" y "yo" en este caso? 

Gracias!


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## Mari Mari

eso de he visto esa pelicula 7 veces ....he hecho un error y por eso no he escrito vi. vale? 
y no insisto...es que no me gusta si alguien no me deja tener mi opinion. 

y nada mas voy a explicar porque si este tema no hubiese perdido ya el sentido,lo perderia ahora...

saludos


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## ChocolateLover

Muchas gracias

Un saludo


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## OhPorDios

loreG said:


> You are talking about Buenos Aires (the Capital City) because it is very common to use the present perfect in the rest of our country. Well, I have to say that in Patagonia Argentina it is not so common. The reason of this is that most of the people living there now are "porteños" (they born in Buenos Aires)



Good point


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## elianecanspeak

[QUOTE no me gusta si alguien no me deja tener mi opinion. [/QUOTE]

Eso me interesa.  Porque el uso es un hecho, o mejor, una  agregation de varios hechos propios de lugares (o clases tal vez) específicos. Para aclarar nuestra confusión necesitamos buscar investigaciones sistemáticas de esta cuestión.  Supongo que la opinión de Mari Mari se base en sus observaciones y  las reflejan. Pero es importante entender que dos observaciones opuestas pueden ser correctas, porque fueron realizadas en comunidades distintas.

Voy a consultar mis fuentes académicas y os escribiré  la semana que  viene.


_Por favor • no dudes en corregir mis errores : El perfeccionismo no es malo si no es obsesión _


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## Fer BA

ChocolateLover said:


> ¿El tiempo es el "presente perfecto"?


 
Choc:
Just to be very clear , there's nothing like "presente perfecto" into Spanish.

Regarding field studies, I've seen some too, specially focusing in the BA area where the perfect tense is _almost_ inexistent. You can see tons of threads about this topic into the _Only Spanish_ forum.

If any of you have any diacronic study regarding the usage into the BA area (after/before the massive immigration from Galicia between 1870/1910) I'd be very grateful if you share it.


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## iskndarbey

Fer BA said:


> Choc:
> Just to be very clear , there's nothing like "presente perfecto" into Spanish.
> 
> Regarding field studies, I've seen some too, specially focusing in the BA area where the perfect tense is _almost_ inexistent. You can see tons of threads about this topic into the _Only Spanish_ forum.
> 
> If any of you have any diacronic study regarding the usage into the BA area (after/before the massive immigration from Galicia between 1870/1910) I'd be very grateful if you share it.



Insisto que no me gusta lo de "casi inexistente". ¡Ya ves que vos mismo sos de Buenos Aires y lo has usado en tu información de ubicación!


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## Fer BA

Is....

Perdón....¿en dónde la usé? ¿en la letra del tango? creo que no aplica...

Por otro lado, por cuestiones de otros hilos, busqué lo que escribí en ellos y el uso del tiempo compuesto es casi inexistente en lo que escribo, ya ni que hablar en lo que digo....

Se que en Perú, al igual que en casi toda el área andina que conozco, se usa mucho la forma compuesta, pero por aquí es casi inexistente. Lamento que no te guste, pero es la verdad (y no tiene remedio).


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## elianecanspeak

This is the most accessible article that I found online : http://www.lingref.com/cpp/wss/4/paper1760.pdf

It discusses the movement of the use of the present perfect  from the "hodiernal" past tense (the recent past) to a function more equivalent to the pretérito perfecto (eg "ví"), (which I was referring to in my comparison with French and Italian in post #16) comparing usage in Cuzco, Lima, and Madrid 

This article is an example of linguists' empirically based assertion that the present perfect is used in Latin America, albeit in some cases with different meaning.


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## ChocolateLover

Muchas gracias a todos

Regards


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## FromPA

OrCuS said:


> It depends on the dialect, just like in English, some would say "I haven't seen that movie" (UK mostly) and others would go with "I didn't see that movie" (USA). Correct me if i'm wrong.


 
For me, "I didn't see that movie" refers to a specific act (or lact of action) in the past and the sentence is incomplete unless the time is specified, either directly or through context. On the other hand, "I haven't seen that movie" does not imply a completed action - I haven't seen it yet, but it's still possible I may see it in the future.


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## Antonildn

Hi and well done for the translation, but please let me amend something.
In Andalucia they also use the form " he visto" in spain we don't use this form only in the north west "galicia" and "asturias" the reason why they also use this form in Leon it's because they are very close to galicia and they also have kind of the same culture. [
In Latin America, I'm not sure, but I also think in some countries they use "he visto" one think I'm sure is that in Argentina they don't so they say "viste la pelicula"Q

They correct way to say would be more "he visto" coz is an action that just happened a while ago.U
And also, in castellano, which is the tipical spanish spoken in spain, if we give an exact date we use the past form, for example " he visto la pelicula" "ayer vi la pelicula" " en 1999 vi la pelicula. That means we can't say in spanish " el viernes he visto la pelicula" " en 1999 he visto la pelicula"
Voila 

OTE=Perrito;9143888]Yes, that's right!  In Latin America, vi esa película is most common, but in Spain, he visto esa película.  He visto is used for things that happened recently.  

Hoy, me he levantado y he ido al parque.  (Spain)
Hoy, me levanté y fui al parque.  (L.A.)

In parts of Andalucia the present perfect is not used in that way, and León.  I'm sure there are other areas, but this is the basic idea of it all.  

Greg[/QUOTE]


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