# しまった！



## lammn

I was used to write しまった！when I meant "oops! I made a mistake" sort of things. Is しまった only usable to people I am familiar with?

Should I rephrase it if I am speaking to someone I am unfamiliar with?  I think しまりました does not work in this case...


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## Ocham

No way! We never utter しまりました in this situation.
There is no polite form of しまった. So if the people 
you are not familiar with are around, or your superiors 
are around, try not to say しまった.


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## lammn

I see. Many thanks!  But then, what should I say in such cases?

In particular, how should I say the following in Japanese (politely)?
1. Oops, I've made a mistake!
2. Oops, I've said something stupid!
3. Oops, I've lost my purse in the train!


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## Ocham

1. Oops, I've made a mistake!
2. Oops, I've said something stupid!
3. Oops, I've lost my purse in the train!

We don't say anything in such cases in place of Oops. Your question sounds like how we say "Shit!" politely.


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## indivisibility

lammn said:


> Should I rephrase it if I am speaking to someone I am unfamiliar with?  I think しまりました does not work in this case...





Ocham said:


> No way! We never utter しまりました in this situation.



I thought しまった was short for しまいました?

By the way, is ヤバイused in the same way as しまった?


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## Aoyama

> is ヤバイused in the same way as しまった?


In a way YES, but I would personally avoid using ヤバイ as a synonym for しまった.
One of the reasons being that ヤバイ is more slang than しまった .


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## Ocham

しまった（polite:しまいました) is a past form of しまう（several ways to write in Chinese character:仕舞う、終う、了う）, any of which originally means "to finish, to close (a shop), to put an end to". 

This しまったis often used in present perfect tense:
彼は行ってしまった。He has already gone.
その本はすっかり読んでしまった。I have read the book through.


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## Aoyama

> しまった（polite:しまいました) is a past form of しまう（several ways to write in Chinese character:仕舞う、終う、了う）, any of which originally means "to finish, to close (a shop), to put an end to".
> 
> This しまったis often used in present perfect tense:
> 彼は行ってしまった。He has already gone.
> その本はすっかり読んでしまった。I have read the book through.


Very true though the use and the meaning seem to have evolved.
The 広辞苑 says : しまった（仕舞った）*失敗した時いう語*。「しまった、財布を忘れた」.
In that sense, it could be in English (_mutatis mutandis)_ "damn it/tough luck/poor me I forgot my purse"...


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## pdmx

lammn said:


> In particular, how should I say the following in Japanese (politely)?
> 1. Oops, I've made a mistake!
> 2. Oops, I've said something stupid!
> 3. Oops, I've lost my purse in the train!


 
What about:
1. *あら/あらっま*、間違ってしまいました｡ 
2. *ちょっと*、いけないことを言ってしまいました/しまった｡
3. *いけない/いけません*、財布を電車の中で置きっぱなしにしてしまった｡

2 remarks:
- All these may sound feminine... but now I am a woman so no wonder really!
- even in a formal situation, because you're talking about yourself in the 3 examples, you may use しまった (you are the subject of this verb, you should use humble form or 謙遜). 

What makes it more formal is to use しまった as a proper verb and not as an interjection (I think )


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## lammn

indivisibility said:


> I thought しまった was short for しまいました?


 


Ocham said:


> しまった（polite:しまいました) is a past form of しまう（several ways to write in Chinese character:仕舞う、終う、了う）, any of which originally means "to finish, to close (a shop), to put an end to".


 
Oops! I have always thought that しまった derives from しまる.
Thanks for the info!



Aoyama said:


> The 広辞苑 says : しまった（仕舞った）*失敗した時いう語*。「しまった、財布を忘れた」.
> In that sense, it could be in English (_mutatis mutandis)_ "damn it/tough luck/poor me I forgot my purse"...


Yeah, actually I want to know the interjection to be used during 失敗した時.



pdmx said:


> What about:
> 1. *あら/あらっま*、間違ってしまいました｡
> 2. *ちょっと*、いけないことを言ってしまいました/しまった｡
> 3. *いけない/いけません*、財布を電車の中で置きっぱなしにしてしまった｡


 
Thank you! Those are some of the "alternatives" I'm looking for.


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## Aoyama

> actually I want to know the interjection to be used during 失敗した時.


It could be *しまった！*among other (numerous) possibilities like :
- まいた !
- ちくしょう　（畜生） a euphemism for 糞　（くそ） also possible


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## lammn

Aoyama said:


> - まいた !
> - ちくしょう　（畜生） a euphemism for 糞　（くそ） also possible


 
Could you please tell me the meaning of まいた? Does it derive from 負く? 

畜生 is a good alternative, though it maynot be good for a lady to speak in such a way... Thanks anyway!


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## Aoyama

> Could you please tell me the meaning of まいた? Does it derive from 負く?


Well, I don't know , could be. It may also be written まいった...
Meaning would be something like : bad/tough luck, said when an unexpected trouble happens.


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## Flaminius

pdmx said:


> What about:
> 1. *あら/あらっま*、間違ってしまいました｡
> 
> The latter should be あらまぁ~あらまー~あらまっ.  The notation らっ suggests that the accent is on this syllable but it is on the first syllable.  I may belong to a minority but I find っ impossible before a nasal consonant.
> 
> 2. *ちょっと*、いけないことを言ってしまいました/しまった｡
> 3. *いけない/いけません*、財布を電車の中で置きっぱなしにしてしまった｡
> 
> If you choose いけません, it is advisable to maintain the polite style throughout the sentence.  Thus しまいました is preferred to しまった.
> 
> 2 remarks:
> - All these may sound feminine... but now I am a woman so no wonder really!
> 
> I have no problem using 2 and 3 myself even if I am a man.  I regard them part of politer vocabulary.  あら and so on are more feminine but if they are uttered with a flatter intonation, I don't find it terribly strange coming from a man.
> 
> - even in a formal situation, because you're talking about yourself in the 3 examples, you may use しまった (you are the subject of this verb, you should use humble form or 謙遜).
> 
> What makes it more formal is to use しまった as a proper verb and not as an interjection (I think )


I personally believe しまった poses no problem in formal situations as well.  It is understandable, however, that the presence of an important figure inhibits being effusive and that inhibition may partly be incorporated in the social norms.  If you really feel an interjection is necessary in the most formal situation, a short あっ can be used.  



Aoyama said:


> It could be *しまった！*among other (numerous) possibilities like :
> - まいた ! まいった!
> - ちくしょう　（畜生） a euphemism for 糞　（くそ） also possible


ちくしょう is not a euphemism for 糞.  They are just different curses.



lammn said:


> Could you please tell me the meaning of まいた? Does it derive from 負く?


まいった is from まいる in sense of fatigued, overwhelmed or vanquished.  Despite the semantic similarity with 負ける (< older Japanese 負く), the two verbs are not related.


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## lammn

Flaminius said:


> まいった is from まいる in sense of fatigued, overwhelmed or vanquished. Despite the semantic similarity with 負ける (< older Japanese 負く), the two verbs are not related.


 
Thanks for clearing things up. 
So the kanji for まいる should be 参る, right?


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## Aoyama

> So the kanji for まいる should be 参る, right ?


Right.
参った, and my mistake for maita.
This 参った apparently comes from_ judo _, used when someone is defeated.


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## kaori

Hi everyone,
I agree with Flaminius. I'd say しまった in front of everybody except in a super formal situation. あっ is very natural and OK for any situation,I think.




> I personally believe しまった poses no problem in formal situations as well. It is understandable, however, that the presence of an important figure inhibits being effusive and that inhibition may partly be incorporated in the social norms. If you really feel an interjection is necessary in the most formal situation, a short あっ can be used.


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