# Мы учимся vs Мы учим



## Konstantinos

What is the difference between "Мы учимся" and "Мы учим"?


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## Drink

It's easiest to explain this with examples:

Мы учимся. = We are learning.
Мы учимся плавать. = We are learning to swim.
Мы учимся в школе. = We are learning/studying in school. (Or in more usual English: We go to school.)
Мы учим. = We teach.
Мы учим в школе. = We teach at a/the school.
Мы учим детей. = We teach children.
Мы учим химию. = We teach chemistry. OR We are learning chemistry.
Мы учим песню. = We are learning a/the song. OR We are teaching a/the song.


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## Maroseika

Мы учимся (+ Dative or + Infinitive) is usually more general than мы учим (+ Accusative):

Мы учимся хорошим манерам.
Я учусь водить машину.

Я учу математику (i.e. study exact topic).
Я учу (изучаю) устройство двигателя.


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## Konstantinos

Thank you both.


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## Saluton

Drink said:


> Мы учим. = We teach.
> Мы учим химию. = We teach chemistry. OR We are learning chemistry.
> Мы учим песню. = We are learning a/the song. OR We are teaching a/the song.


Мы учим can also mean *We are learning.* or *We are studying.*
Учить + accusative refers to _who _is taught: Мы учим детей = We teach children, but the case is dative for _what_ is taught: We teach chemistry = *Мы учим химии.* (rather informal though) Or: *Мы преподаём химию.* (the preferred option)
'We are teaching a/the song'? I'm not sure what it means.


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## ahvalj

Saluton said:


> Мы учим can also mean *We are learning.* or *We are studying.*
> Учить + accusative refers to _who _is taught: Мы учим детей = We teach children, but the case is dative for _what_ is taught: We teach chemistry = *Мы учим химии*.


As was discussed above, there are two homonymous verbs. The first is the one you are describing, it has the meaning "to teach". The other one has the meaning "to learn", _мы учим химию, _and is more or less synonymous with _учиться_, _мы учимся химии_.


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## djwebb1969

Ahvalj, this is a very useful thread. Do you mean

мы учим химию = we're studying chemistry
мы учим химии = we're teaching chemistry

??

So the difference is all in the case?

How about "we're teaching the children chemistry"? with two objects (or what would be two objects in English, one direct and the other indirect). мы учим детей химии?


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## Saluton

djwebb1969 said:


> Ahvalj, this is a very useful thread. Do you mean
> 
> мы учим химию = we're studying chemistry
> мы учим химии = we're teaching chemistry
> 
> ??
> 
> So the difference is all in the case?


Correct.



djwebb1969 said:


> How about "we're teaching the children chemistry"? with two objects (or what would be two objects in English, one direct and the other indirect). мы учим детей химии?


Correct too. Or: Мы обучаем детей химии. Or: Мы преподаём детям химию. (note that with преподавать, the direct and the indirect object are swapped)


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## ahvalj

_мы учим химию
мы учим (детей) химии_


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## Drink

Saluton said:


> 'We are teaching a/the song'? I'm not sure what it means.



It means we are learning (or teaching someone) to sing a particular song.


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## ahvalj

Drink said:


> It means we are learning (or teaching someone) to sing a particular song.


There is even a special verb _разучивать (песню) _for this case.


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## Drink

ahvalj said:


> There is even a special verb _разучивать (песню) _for this case.



Yes, but you don't always need it.


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## Konstantinos

djwebb1969 said:


> мы учим химию = we're studying chemistry
> мы учим химии = we're teaching chemistry



Can the first case be translated as the passive voice of English?

мы учим химию = we're being taught chemistry
мы учим химии = we're teaching chemistry

Or not?


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## djwebb1969

No - the passive voice in English has nothing to do with it. 

мы учим химию doesn't mean "we're being taught chemistry", but "we're studying chemistry."

We're being taught chemistry - possibly нас учат химии?

I'd be interested to see what the Russian experts come up with for that - because it is always a difficulty knowing what to do with the English passive.


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## Drink

Technically, the passive would be something like "Мы учены химии", but this kind of construction is (almost?) never used in Russian at all, especially with this verb.
"Нас учат химии" is the best translation of the English passive "We are being taught chemistry".

But djwebb1969 is correct that the distinction between learning and teaching has nothing to do with the passive voice, but with two different meanings of the verb. This can be compared to the colloquial English (and highly stigmatized) "I learned him to read."

Also, despite what Saluton said, "мы учим химию" (with the accusative case) _can_ also mean "We are teaching chemistry."


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## ahvalj

Drink said:


> Technically, the passive would be something like "Мы учены химии", but this kind of construction is (almost?) never used in Russian at all, especially with this verb.


The exact correspondence will be _мы обучаемы химии_. This construction existed in the past but was marginalized in the course of the 19th century. There are some cases when it is still possible to use it, but not many, which is a pity.


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## djwebb1969

Is there any difference in meaning/usage between the perfective forms выучиться and научиться?


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## ahvalj

djwebb1969 said:


> Is there any difference in meaning/usage between the perfective forms выучиться and научиться?


_Научиться_ is absolutely neutral and serves as a perfective of _учиться_ "to learn"; _выучиться_ is rather energetic/colloquial and means mastering some (typically practical) discipline: _выучился морскому делу, выучился арабскому_ (to speak, not as a scholar).


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## djwebb1969

Thanks for that!


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## Drink

djwebb1969 said:


> Is there any difference in meaning/usage between the perfective forms выучиться and научиться?



I'd also add that научить(ся) is more commonly used with actions, while выучить(ся) is more commonly used with material. For example:

Я научился плавать брассом. = I learned to swim breaststroke.
Я выучил все соединения углерода с кислородом. = I learned all the compounds of carbon and oxygen.


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## ahvalj

Drink said:


> I'd also add that научить(ся) is more commonly used with actions, while выучить(ся) is more commonly used with material. For example:
> 
> Я научился плавать брассом. = I learned to swim breaststroke.
> Я выучил все соединения углерода с кислородом. = I learned all the compounds of carbon and oxygen.


The question was about the reflexive verb, _выучиться_.


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