# Memory



## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree too. Actually, I didn't know anyone said "thirty-one hundred" etc. If someone said to me "there were fifty-four hundred people there" I would have to stop and think about it for a moment before working out the number. I am very slow in hearing numbers though, I must admit, in any language.


You are slow at hearing numbers? That's weird. I have the same problem, but I'm strong in math. Hmm. If someone gives me a telephone number, it has to be "delivered to me" in groups that I expect (xxx) xxx-xxxx. Area code, three digits, then four.

As always, it's tough not to over-think these things, but I believe I would say "three thousand five hundred dollars" or "three and a half thousand dollars". When not talking about money, I think I'd just say three thousand five hundred.

I THINK!  

Gaer


----------



## panjandrum

gaer said:
			
		

> If someone gives me a telephone number, it has to be "delivered to me" in groups that I expect (xxx) xxx-xxxx. Area code, three digits, then four.


_Big chuckle!_
I have the same problem - UK phone numbers have to be three, four, four if I am to have any chance of remembering quickly. It is a pity that no one reads them to me this way


----------



## gaer

panjandrum said:
			
		

> _Big chuckle!_
> I have the same problem - UK phone numbers have to be three, four, four if I am to have any chance of remembering quickly. It is a pity that no one reads them to me this way


It would be an interesting subject, how our minds take in data and why some of us need it in smaller "chunks", but I won't say more here, since it will cause huge topic drift.  

Gaer


----------



## timpeac

gaer said:
			
		

> You are slow at hearing numbers? That's weird. I have the same problem, but I'm strong in math. Hmm. If someone gives me a telephone number, it has to be "delivered to me" in groups that I expect (xxx) xxx-xxxx. Area code, three digits, then four.
> 
> As always, it's tough not to over-think these things, but I believe I would say "three thousand five hundred dollars" or "three and a half thousand dollars". When not talking about money, I think I'd just say three thousand five hundred.
> 
> I THINK!
> 
> Gaer


 
Yes - and I like to think I'm not too bad at maths too. In any language (including English and particularly in French) when someone starts telling me a number I usually have to ask them to stop and repreat. I think it's a conditioned response now!!


----------



## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes - and I like to think I'm not too bad at maths too. In any language (including English and particularly in French) when someone starts telling me a number I usually have to ask them to stop and repreat. I think it's a conditioned response now!!


Tim, perhaps we should start a new thread, because this is off topic. But I have a rather strange problem that would make it seem as if I would be very bad at any language, including my own. I'm unable to remember anything that is not very short. For instance, in text, I can remember three, four, five words. That's it. As you might guess, I'm unable to "recite" anything. If anyone else has this problem, I'd love to discuss it in a new thread.

Gaer


----------



## timpeac

Yes I'll PM a mod and ask them to do so - I make it messages 10 12 and 16 forward. Whilst waiting I'll continue answering you -

Although numbers are my bug bear , my memory for words (no matter what their length) is, if you'll forgive the big-headedness, excellent. However, this is strictly only in the short-term. When I was at university for my exams the night before the relevant paper I would learn my best 3 essays off by heart so that I could happily start writing verbatim from them at any single point. These essays were at least 10 pages A4 long, often alot more, and so that's a lot to stuff into the short-term memory. By the day after it would all be completely gone (and moreover I would probably be learning the next essays for the next day!!)

Actually, thinking about it a little further, this is only short-term when there is so much to learn that there is no room for long-term memory, such as 3 essays a day for 2 weeks. At school we studied and had an oral exam on the French play "Eurydice". I could still talk in French without deviation, hesitation or repitition on that book for a good 15 minutes I'd say because I learnt the answers to many probable questions off by heart. Not sure I could tell you much about it in English though, without having to run through the French in my head and simultaneously translate...which goes to show, I suppose, that it is just "words" I have learnt and not their meaning as a whole.

If it's any consolation I do have an absolutely terrible memory for, and sense, of time however. I just find periods of time really difficult to process. If something happened more than a year ago I find it very difficult to say if it was 1,2,5 or sometimes 10 years ago (depending on how important the event was). For example, I know the countries I've been on holiday to, but if you said to me where did you go on holiday 2 years ago, I wouldn't be able to tell you - at least not without having to think about it for a very long time.

And Gary, as a muscian, your memory for melody must be excellent. I was a very bad muscian for a time playing the flute and the piano, and in the end I gave up because I got too nervous in exams (although in all other types of exam I am a very confident person (often overly )) and so would stutter over notes and go wrong, and find it impossible just to launch back in where I had gone wrong. I never had the confidence, say at the piano, that my fingers would find the right notes by themselves without me watching closely. This would seem to me to be a similar kind of "memory" problem, since we are talking about learning stuff by heart and being able to recall it without problem. Well my fingers never had any immediate plans to recall what I had learnt without problem!!


----------



## gaer

Tim,

I would very much like to answer this at length, and I'll try to do it later. But first lets see if we can get a mod to split it. I know in the German forum it's a huge problem for us when a thread drifts into something else, although we all start doing it sometimes. 

Do you have a thread title if we could get this done?

Gaer


----------



## gaer

Tim,

Now that we are in the right place. 


> Although numbers are my bug bear, my memory for words (no matter what their length) is, if you'll forgive the big-headedness, excellent. However, this is strictly only in the short-term. When I was at university for my exams the night before the relevant paper I would learn my best 3 essays off by heart so that I could happily start writing verbatim from them at any single point. These essays were at least 10 pages A4 long, often alot more, and so that's a lot to stuff into the short-term memory. By the day after it would all be completely gone (and moreover I would probably be learning the next essays for the next day!!)


This astounds me, because I have never, ever learned anything more than something ridiculously simply to pass a test. You will probably think I'm lying, but I'm not. First of all, it doesn't work for me. And I don't know why. Perhaps the difference lies in the fact that short-term memory tricks are totally useless for music. In music, you don't learn things and then discard them. But in other areas, I simply couldn't do it. Since Spanish, in high school, was oriented around memorized "dialogues", I learned nothing. Nothing would stay in my head. Tests for names and dates? No way. Memorized text? Nothing. I can't quote anyone.


> Actually, thinking about it a little further, this is only short-term when there is so much to learn that there is no room for long-term memory, such as 3 essays a day for 2 weeks. At school we studied and had an oral exam on the French play "Eurydice". I could still talk in French without deviation, hesitation or repitition on that book for a good 15 minutes I'd say because I learnt the answers to many probable questions off by heart. Not sure I could tell you much about it in English though, without having to run through the French in my head and simultaneously translate...which goes to show, I suppose, that it is just "words" I have learnt and not their meaning as a whole.


And I could never do that. I learn in "packets", three, four or five words. I have to understand them to remember them. Then I assemble these "packets" into larger ideas. I suspect that's how I learned English too.


> If it's any consolation I do have an absolutely terrible memory for, and sense, of time however. I just find periods of time really difficult to process. If something happened more than a year ago I find it very difficult to say if it was 1,2,5 or sometimes 10 years ago (depending on how important the event was). For example, I know the countries I've been on holiday to, but if you said to me where did you go on holiday 2 years ago, I wouldn't be able to tell you - at least not without having to think about it for a very long time.


I don't know if I'm bad at this because I can't remember or because I really don't care. I know when I finished high school and college. I'm pretty good at remembering birthdays. But I remember strange numbers, decimal equivalents of fractions, metric to English standard conversions, things like that. I know that there are 1609 and 1/3 meters in a mile, approximately.

About music: yes, you guessed it. I have "CD-memory". I can click on symphonies in my head and index to any point, sort of the musicians equivalent of photographic memory. I don't see the music, but I hear it, and I also played brass parts. I still remember parts from 9th grade. If I go to a movie and it has a great theme, I can play it when I come home.

Man, memory is just WEIRD! But for most people, the main problem is that they are required to play from memory, which has nothing to do with knowing the music. Think of the difference, for instance, between reading part of a play, very well, with complete understanding and with a good interpretation. Now, if you take the script away and you can't remember everything, does this mean you don't really understand it? No. And the main mistake musicians (learning) make is that they do not learn in sections, so if anything goes wrong between the beginning and the end of a piece, it is a "train wreck". 

Gaer


----------



## Vanda

People this is very interesting. I have my own theory about numbers memory   that is : I don´t have it. In that place in our brain I was given words memory twice (I mean in the place where it was supposed to have numbers ). 
So, please, whenever trying to give me numbers, *translate* them to words...and unlike most of you, I have never been good at Math, and  for my ego   I explain that with the theory above.  hehehehehehe


----------



## panjandrum

It's strange about music.  I can remember the music for different parts of many pieces (choral), but I have serious difficulty in remembering the words!  But even taking that into account, I am totally amazed that a pianist, for example, can play a huge long piece entirely from memory.  All those fingers, all those notes to choose from...
One of my close colleagues remembers words well,  I remember concepts.  When we try to recall what happened at a meeting we both attended, she can quote who said what... I can remember how the discussion developed and what was the outcome.


----------



## meili

Jeje... Memory.. I find it difficult to memorize words and long essays nowadays but I remember when I was still in grade school I can memorize scripts, speeches, etc. approximately 4 to 5 pages.  (Some I still know by heart until this time!  ).  But make me memorize them now, huhu, maybe I can remember the first 2 paragraphs but not the whole 5 pages anymore.

Back in the college, some of our booskish Professors prefers having long examinations - essay, at that - verbatim, word by word.  I really do not like those days.  My ways of memorizing: I read and reread and trying my guts out to understand the passage and then try double to remember every word.  This is the problem with memorizing verbatimly (is there a word?), you forget one word and you forget the whole sentence altogether.  On the other hand, since you came to understand the to-memorize paragraph, problems are lesser, jeje.

Another thing I find difficult to memorize - mathematical equations and/or formulas.  

I do not play any musical instruments or doesn't have any formal lessons, but I find it easy to memorize melody and can hit one or two keys in the piano and get the right sound - all from memory.  I, on the other hand, can not memorize song lyrics unless I really like the melody of the new song.


----------



## odelotj

I'm good with some numbers. I'm good with mathematical formulas, and I can easily quote to you things that people said.  My ex-boyfriends REALLY hated this quality.  Because I used it in arguents, "Remember, you told me you were going to fix it?"  "No I didn't"  "Yes you did, right after you told me that your brother used to have one and that's how you learned to do it"  Prompting people's memories with an entire thread of corversation, doesn't matter how far back I have to go.  Teachers hated it too, because I could talk to my friends in class and have 1 ear on what they were saying, so when they would say, "You're not listening!"  I'd say, yes I was, you said that the root of x was 7.  You divide the numerator, by blah blah blah.  I could repeat the whole lesson if I had to.  Phone numbers though, things like that, I'm not so good.

However, MOST of the time, regarless if it's numbers, words, ideas, concepts, etc, as long as I write them out on paper, I can memorize most things easily.  But I have to write them, look at the paper while I write, and take it in that way.  I passed many exams that way, studying that way.  

My long term memory is poor though, I dont remember many many things from my childhood.  I find sometimes I sort of invent a story around an old photograph, because it seems the most likely explanation for how the picture was taken.


----------



## panjandrum

odelotj said:
			
		

> [...]I sort of invent a story around an old photograph, because it seems the most likely explanation for how the picture was taken.


Very interesting.
I have a memory of sitting on my Father's shoulders looking over a fence at a lot of hens.
I know that what I am remembering is that some time ago I remembered remembering this scene.
I have been around this loop so often that I am remembering remembering remembering..........
But somewhere, deep in my mind, there is a genuine memory of a scene like this........
I would have been no more than two years old at the time.


----------



## gaer

Perhaps part of my problem with the memorization of words is that I secretly think it is pointless, unless you are an actor.

During my whole life, the idea of memorizing and "reciting" anything has made me furious, and I refused to do it. I never had higher than a B average in school because I simply refused to do anything that I thought was not in my interest. If I had to read a book that I didn't like, after reading a couple chapters, that was it. Bye bye book. 

And I not only nearly flunked three years of Spanish, I manage to learn nothing I could use. Why? Because the instruction was based on memorizing dialogues. I think that is insane for most people, and it certainly was for me.

My piano students either love or hate the way I teach. The ones who hate my way like to play in recitals, from memory, in front of people, under pressure. They usually play a couple pieces well but could not learn more to save their lives without having them spoon-fed to them.

I won't even ALLOW people to play from memory until they have learned to play well with music (because it stops reading), and I loathe "recitals", which I call "rectals". Amazing what one little letter can do.  

My whole life I've wanted to understand things. I never once studied for a final exam except perhaps to review something I already knew, because it seemed pointless. First, I was terrible at cramming—it doesn't work for me, never did. Second, the idea of DOING it seemed to me on the verge of something immoral. 

(By exam time, I was either prepared—or it was too late…)

If you love to learn, what could possibly waste more time than cramming crap into your head so that you can fulfill the requirements of some idiotic school system? I just don't get it. Never did.

I guess you all know why I work for myself. 

Gaer


----------



## odelotj

I did it because I had to, because I was too lazy to learn it *earlier *when I was supposed to. And because I couldn't bare to disppoint my parents who paid and outrageous amount of money they couldn't really afford for my education (I wish they handn't, and I helped pay a lot of it myself, my student loans attest to that, but I appreciated that they wanted the best opportunity for me). I think that musical minds work a little differently than the conventional school methods tend to nurture. I always have said that college is not for everyone, you have to find your own path. Glad to hear you have Gaer, congrats to you. I wish schools integrated different learning styles more myself. I may have been more musical then.... ;-)


----------



## meili

There are just so many mysteries with the power of memory.

If I hear a particular piece of melody, and I fell inlove with the music, I can play the tune and hum it out of memory.  Also, people can always usually say what song I have heard last - I will sing it again and again until I hear another new song - _last song syndrome? _- I think I am not the only one. 

I can also memorize people's faces:  Even if we met only once, 5 or more years will pass, I would still remember you - where, when, why and how.  Problem is, I will not remember your name.  But you sure is going to receive a smile - and a Hi.


----------



## modgirl

panjandrum said:
			
		

> UK phone numbers have to be three, four, four if I am to have any chance of remembering quickly. It is a pity that no one reads them to me this way


 
That's exactly how I think!  However, most people I've encountered in the UK don't read them that way at all, so I share your concern.  It's usually 02012.345678.  I dislike that because it's easier to see if all the numbers are there if the city (or area) code is by itself first:  020.1234.5678.  The latter is how I prefer numbers to be written and read.  And when dialing internationally, it becomes even more important.  It's easy to not only see that all the numbers are there, but it's just easier to isolate the are code of the number.


----------



## gaer

odelotj said:
			
		

> I did it because I had to, because I was too lazy to learn it *earlier *when I was supposed to. And because I couldn't bare to disppoint my parents who paid and outrageous amount of money they couldn't really afford for my education (I wish they handn't, and I helped pay a lot of it myself, my student loans attest to that, but I appreciated that they wanted the best opportunity for me). I think that musical minds work a little differently than the conventional school methods tend to nurture. I always have said that college is not for everyone, you have to find your own path. Glad to hear you have Gaer, congrats to you. I wish schools integrated different learning styles more myself. I may have been more musical then.... ;-)


Oh, I went to college. I got scholarships, and I was immediately accepted as a performance major. But you are quite right. Music is SO different. First of all, there are NO basic studies that must be required BEFORE you being your major. When you get in the school, you are IN it. The practicing never stops, the performing never stops. And believe me, when you perform in from of hundreds of people (or more), you don't prepare by cramming. You plan way in adance, building carefully and logically, because when you go out and make it seem as if you are in the world of "emotion and expression", a large part of your brain has to be focused on mechanics. It's a bit schizoid. 

But the point is that cramming doesn't work in music. Those who try it have a "train-wreck" in public. Not only are they humiliated, they flunk out. My grades in performance and all classes involving music were tops, but even there, when I was forced to take a class in music that I hated, I didn't pay attention. For instance, in order to finish, you have to study what is called "atonal music", which began roughly in the mid 1900s, perhaps a bit earlier. I loathe this music. I knew I never wanted to play it, never wanted to listen to it, would never teach it or study it. The logic behind it made sense, but the result, the actual sound, made me feel ill, and still does.

Try listening to something by Arnold Schönberg, for instance. People who are not trained not only usually reject the music as unlistenable, they believe that it is all BS, the emperor has no clothes, a joke, when in fact Schönberg was a talented man who could also write much more conventional music.

So that's the deal. Imagine trying to "cram" for painting a picture, for writing a book, for making any beautiful. It just doesn't work in art, in my opinion. 

But if I had been forced to go into a more conventional field and I HAD the ability to cram, you can bet your life I would have done it. After all, if someone asks you to learn something useless so that you can pass a test that will allow you to do what you want to do, it makes sense—but only because our concept of what education is happens to be so insane. 

Gaer


----------



## rob.returns

In my part, one of the stimulus that brings those cherish memories back is music. When I hear those 80's music now(all by myself), I am reverted back to those days, when chocolates and junks were heaven and cartoons were gods.

ONe memory that would remain was when we were practicing dancing for a party. My aunt use to teach those nerdy and crazy dances during those time. Those fit pants, crazy hair sprays. 
Another, would be when I was just sitting at our porch, watching my friends playing while I prepare our junk foods and drinks. Also, we did have this Tree where we use to hang out..It was a big one. We got our own territories there and we have our own places, sometime we just stay for 5 hours or more, chatting away the time, doing our childhood antics.

But when you would ask me about memory stories during college. I would say that I have a fair one. But I do have friend who could drink beer the whole time and study with no sleep at all, and still get higher grades than the rest who would do their efforts the smooth way.

In my own conclusion, I think genetics would be a factor mix with brain exercises. These would boost your memory power.


----------



## mari.kit

i must admit that my memory is not that good.. but back in school, if i have some piece to memorize, i have to understand it first and be able to explain in my own words, from there i can memorize the whole piece already...

with numbers, nowadays, its kinda difficult for me, mobile phone has ten, landline phones has eleven and all other important numbers...

but with music, if i really like the song, i can memorize the lyrics by heart.. so just to sing it everyday...;D 

for memories and events.. the very important ones are retained in my memory and remember it once in a while.. so with the happiest, saddest, scariest...and so on..
but there are memories that you wish to forget but is still there...can't avoid remembering it..


----------



## Amityville

Yes, that's interesting mari.kit - erasing bad memories. If you memorize something wrongly and then try to correct the wrong bit in situ in your memory - it's a difficult surgical procedure !
As for erasing other kinds of bad memories, sometimes they just won't go away and hog the available space to the detriment of smaller good memories.


----------



## julienne

i never can memorize anything, unless i say it aloud over and over again...that was the bane of my school life, i could never get the verbatim parts right, but i understand the meanings and logics of the subject...

also i tend to associate music or a particular song with an event... i may hate or love that song depending on what happened the time i heared it. this is one reason why i am not fond of photographs.   sometimes i forget how when and why an old picture was taken, but if i hear a particular song, i remember an event, and what mood i was back then... 


bad memories? i tried putting them in a heavy lead box and dropping them off the Marianas Trench heheheh    that worked for me back when something really bad happened to me...    though still there, they're not bad anymore, they're now just memories


----------



## tey2

Interesting topic. I have a lot of problems when it comes to memory. I'm bad with numbers and just like meili, I can't seem to memorize math formulas so when it comes to exams oh well, I can expect to have low grades. I also have a problem in memorizing dates, that up until now I haven't memorized my best friends birthday which becomes embarassing because every year I have to ask her how many times when's her birthday. I also hate it when during our school days our teachers requires us to memorize poems, I'm terrible at it.

On the bright side, I love singing along to songs and it's easy for me to memorize the lyrics of the songs. 

About bad memories, there are pros and cons. Personally I have a lot of bad experiences. Having bad memories are painful that's why we'd like to shut it out or forget about it, but we really can't. We really have to deal with it that's the only way we can move on. It's advantage is when someone who had experienced the same way you did and you already dealt with the pain and moved on, then you can share it to the person what you've experienced, how you've overcome the pain and learn from it because it's more likely that that person will listen to you because you experienced it not just babbling about the problem. Well, just speaking what's on my mind.


----------



## LanceKitty

odelotj said:
			
		

> However, MOST of the time, regarless if it's numbers, words, ideas, concepts, etc, as long as I write them out on paper, I can memorize most things easily. But I have to write them, look at the paper while I write, and take it in that way.


 
This is how I remember what to buy when grocery time comes around. I carefully make a list going around the kitchen and toilet checking on items that need replacements. Alas, when I'm out of the door... the list gets left behind... forgotten... right there in plain view on the kitchen table.  But because I wrote down what I needed and had a good look at the list, all items are purchased.  

Basically, I have a good memory when I understand things. I have a passion for Math and Logic so I'm good with numbers and formulas and I can find a way to memorize them. Words, too. Dates, yes... but usually I'm unaware of what day it is and so I get accused of _forgetting_ a certain event. 

Childhood memories. I won't bet on any of it... some of them may be true and some of them may be a product of my wild imagination... worse, a childhood dream that I believed to be true.


----------

