# German toponyms of presumably Polabian origin ending -leben



## berndf

In historically Polabian speaking areas of Germany (comprising areas in the modern states of Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen-Anhalt and Lower Saxony) there are toponyms ending in _-leben_, like _Gorleben, Walsleben, Ruhleben_. I presume this ending is of Polabian origin. Do you have an idea from which Slavic word this could be derived? I am interested the Polabian/Sorbian word and possible cognates in other Slavic, in particular West-Slavic,  languages.

The only hint I found so far is in the German Wikipedia for the name _Gorleben_ which reads that _leben_ means Erde _(earth_). But there is no source.

Thank you.


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## Frank78

I read that these "-leben" are either of slavic origin and were renamed from "-slav", e.g. Pripsleben or were founded by Germanic people.

Another thesis is that these names are from the period of the migration and most of these towns are along the routes of from north to south. Between Haldensleben and Erfurt are over 100 places ending with "-leben". Kurt Linder wrote it in his history about the town of Eisleben. It could be true because all most of these "-lebens" are west of the Elbe. And "-leben" is said to mean "heritage" or "allodium".

By the way, a similar ending also exists in Scandinavia: -lev and -löv


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## LilianaB

Hi, Berndf. Could it possibly come from _left_ -- _lewy_ in Polish (the same root in many other Slavic languages). There is a Slovak town Leva, the name of which is thought to have come form the Left. In fact, the modern name of the town is Levice. (Old Slavic name -- Leva).

I also believe that the ending, _-leben_, can be related to the Slavic _-slav_. (Slawen in German). _Elbslawen_ were the _Polabian_ tribes. _Elba_ in many Slavic languages is _Labe_ -- if this word could be somehow related, as well.

In fact _Polaben_, has a _-laben_ stem and the prefix _-po_ which means next to. The people who live near the Elbe. 

I think _leben_ may also come from _Labe _ -- the Elbe River.


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## berndf

Thank you both for your comments.





Frank78 said:


> Between Haldensleben and Erfurt are over 100 places ending with "-leben". Kurt Linder wrote it in his history about the town of Eisleben. It could be true because all most of these "-lebens" are west of the Elbe. And "-leben" is said to mean "heritage" or "allodium".


This is exactly the line where the Limes Sorabicus ran in the 9th century, the time of the greatest westward expansion of the Slavs.


Frank78 said:


> By the way, a similar ending also exists in Scandinavia: -lev and -löv


Do you know the the etymology of those?


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## Frank78

I've found this for Danish:

"_*-LEV *_Meaning: property, inheritance.
Examples: Haderslev, Sejerslev, Branderslev.
Description: Derives from Old Danish '-lef', which again derives from Old Germanic 'liban'. The original meaning is 'the remainder' or 'what's left'. Nearly all of the prefixes derives from personal names; the name of the person who owned the village.Date: These settlements dates back to the 3rd - 6th century."

(http://mydanishroots.com/research-g...n-elements-in-danish-place-names.html?start=1)


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> I've found this for Danish:
> 
> "_*-LEV *_Meaning: property, inheritance.
> Examples: Haderslev, Sejerslev, Branderslev.
> Description: Derives from Old Danish '-lef', which again derives from Old Germanic 'liban'. The original meaning is 'the remainder' or 'what's left'. Nearly all of the prefixes derives from personal names; the name of the person who owned the village.Date: These settlements dates back to the 3rd - 6th century."
> 
> (http://mydanishroots.com/research-g...n-elements-in-danish-place-names.html?start=1)


Thanks. That was my suspicion too. That it would be related to _Leben _(_life_). In Low German we have the /b/>/f/ shift as well (e.g. HG _ich habe v_s. LG _ik hef_; HG _Leben _vs. LG _Leven_; HG _Lieben_ vs. LG _Leiven_). So for toponyms of Norse or LG origin we could see _-lev_ >_ -leben_ would be entirely possible as HG renditions of the LG versions of those names. Do we have those toponyms North of the Benrater Line and sufficiently West/North-West of the Limites Saxonicus/Sorabicus to exclude a Slavic origin?


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## LilianaB

Frank78 said:


> By the way, a similar ending also exists in Scandinavia: -lev and -löv



The Swedish -löv is said to have come from leaf, leaves, foliage.


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## Frank78

LilianaB said:


> The Swedish -löv is said to have come from leaf, leaves, foliage.



"To leave" would make much more sense. If you inherited something it has been "left" by someone. Just my two cents based on intuition.


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> "To leave" would make much more sense. If you inherited something it has been "left" by someone. Just my two cents based on intuition.


Swedish _löv _is indeed cognate to _leaf_; German _Laub_. It makes perfect sense in toponyms in the sense of _woods_.


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## Frank78

berndf said:


> Do we have those toponyms North of the Benrater Line and sufficiently West/North-West of the Limites Saxonicus/Sorabicus to exclude a Slavic origin?



If the limes sorabicus is drawn correctly here then quite a number of towns named "-leben" are west of it e.g. Oschersleben, Aschersleben, Ebeleben, Elxleben, etc. The Saale River is approxiately the limit.


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> If the limes sorabicus is drawn correctly here then quite a number of towns named "-leben" are west of it e.g. Oschersleben, Aschersleben, Ebeleben, Elxleben, etc. The Saale River is approxiately the limit.


The names Limes Saxonicus and Limes Sorabicus might be a bit misleading. They were never raizor sharp lines like to Germanic Limes in Roman times but rather several 10 km wide corridors of Germanic and Slavic settlements. If you look at towns like _Sandersleben, Siersleben, Eisleben_ which appear like pearls on a string you find unambiguously Slavic names within 15 km (as the crow flies). Your interpretation in #2 appeals to me that they could German names for isolated Slavic settlement on the German side of the line.


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## Fiserman

Hydronyms often preserve the most ancient form of words, as changing the name of the river that flows through different cities (or even nations) is not as easy as changing the name of a city or a mountain.

At the time of the Roman conquest, one of the most important Illyrian tribes were the *Labeateans*. They occupied the territory around the lake Skadar, today northern *Albania*, and southern Montenegro. Ancient writers call this lake *Labeatis*.

“*Lab*” was a common Illyrian particle, found in many place names. Wikipedia claims that it is a metathesis from “*Alb*” simply meaning “*white*”. However, the metathesis “*lab*” – “*alb*” is still interesting, as we will soon see.

Not far from the territory of the ancient *Labeateans*, there is a river *Lab*. It flows in the north-east of Kosovo. Kosovo was the central area of the first Serbian states, before the Ottoman invasion. As for the river’s name, Wikipedia claims the following:

"Derived from a pre-Slavic form *Alb* that underwent linguistic metathesis within Slavic, giving the final form as *Lab*".

Therefore, the ancient form was *ALB*, but with the (supposed) Slavic arrival on the Balkans in the 6th century, it became *LAB*?  Well, this could only be logical if we ignore the existence of the *Labateans*. But wait, why would *LAB* be a Slavic form?

Perhaps because a common Slavic word for swan is “*labud*” – white bird. It exists in all Slavic lands, therefore the Southern Slavs couldn’t have acquired it from some unknown indigenous population of the Balkans.

River *Elbe* is the major river in Central Europe. It flows through the Czech Republic and Germany, a region shared between the Slavic and Germanic nations. Scholars are still debating which of these nations came first. But what is certain is that the large part of modern Germany around the *Elbe* was once inhabited by the Slavic *Sorbs* (now a minority).

River *Laba* is an important river of Krasnodar and Adygea regions of Russia. It flows around the Sea of Azov and the Black sea. Interestingly, this is the same region of Sarmatia Asiatica, in which Ptolemy places a “Sarmatian” tribe of *Serboi* (Serbi). Moreover, the name of Caucasian Albania is just another inversion of the root “*Lab*”.

In short, we can draw the following conclusion. There are three important rivers, separated by a great distance, sharing the same root. And interestingly, these regions are always occupied by nations that declare as *Serbs*. In all three cases, the original root “*Lab*” is changed to “*alb*” or “*elb*”, and not vice versa. Modern historians would say that these rivers and nations should not be confused. But this is hardly a coincidence.

RIVER / NATION
LAB / SERBS
LABA (ELBE) / SORBS
LABA / SERBOI, SERBI

According to mainstream history, there was only one noteworthy movement of the Southern Slavs – from the north (Elbe) to south (Lab), in the 6th century AD. However, western historians also claim that Slavs arrived in the Elbe region around the same time, somewhere from the east. (not the Caucasus). That would simply mean that Slavs wandered aimlessly across the vast territory of Euro-Asia, which is a ridiculous theory. On the other hand, Slavic medieval texts were always explicit that Slavs occupied Balkans prior to the Roman invasion.

Anyhow, what is certain is that Labateans were present in the Balkans from the 4th century BC. But if we accept the connection between the terms “Illyrians” and “Ilion” (Troy), we can push this date back for another thousand years. This would bring us directly to the times of the bronze age migrations as well as the time when the notorious pirates known as sea peoples pillaged the Mediterranean region. This is a fact – Illyrians are the only candidates from the recorded history that could truly fit this shoe. Their Modus Operandi and notorious reputation were virtually identical to those of sea peoples.

Sea peoples reached the shores of northern Africa, slightly before the time when Jews started to compile their sacred scriptures. In this light, it is interesting that the Jews called the sea serpent Leviathan. The etymology of this name is not clear, but it appears in the earliest Jewish scriptures. It could be a coincidence, but this sea serpent looks very similar to the depictions of the Labiatan coins.

On their way there, one of the first stops would be the modern-day Lebanon. For its etymology Wikipedia states:

"The name of Mount *Lebanon* originates from the Phoenician root lbn meaning “*white*”.

*Lebane* is also a town in South Serbia, bordering Kosovo.


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## Apollodorus

Fiserman said:


> This is a fact – Illyrians are the only candidates from the recorded history that could truly fit this shoe. Their Modus Operandi and notorious reputation were virtually identical to those of sea peoples.



Interesting theory. I suppose a connection could be made between Slavs and Central European toponyms/hydronyms containing the particle “Leb” or “Lab/Alb”, depending on how much evidence can be found to support this.

But the claim that Illyrians are “the only candidates from recorded history” that could truly fit the description of the Sea Peoples, seems a bit overstretched.

The Egyptians were quite accurate when recording ethnonyms. For example, “People of Keftiu” mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions seems to refer to the biblical “Caphtorites” or “Caphtorim”, probably from Crete. In fact, Egyptian art (e.g., painting from the tomb of Rekhmire, 2nd register) clearly identifies them as Minoan Cretans.

Here is a better picture of the “People of Keftiu”:

Cretans Bringing Gifts, Tomb of Rekhmire - Wikimedia Commons

The Minoans are easily recognisable by their characteristic colourful loincloths, footwear, long hair and vessels of typical Cretan type.

The Sea Peoples seem to have been different ethnic groups, one of which is referred to as “Peleset”, probably identical with the biblical Philistines and originally from the Aegean. Another group, the “Lukka” seems to refer to Lycians, from the same region as the Peleset. There are a few others that could be Greeks: Denyen-Danaoi, Ekwesh-Achaeans, etc.

As far as I’m aware, none of these groups are referred to in Egyptian sources by terms resembling “Leb/Lab/Alb” or that would otherwise specifically connect the Sea Peoples with the Slavs.

You might be able to connect the Luwians of Asia Minor with Wilusa a.k.a. Troy, but linking them with Slavs or Illyrians from the Balkans, may prove more difficult.

And what if in some cases “Alb” doesn’t come from a word for “white” but from, say, PIE *_alb_ "hill” or some other word?

According to Wikipedia, in modern languages the term _alp_, _alm_, _albe_ or _alpe_ refers to grazing pastures, especially but not exclusively, in mountainous areas (German _Bergweide_). Although, as the Oxford English Dictionary puts it, it is “of uncertain and perhaps ultimately non-Indo-European origin”.


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## francisgranada

The IE_  al, ar, el, er, or, ol_ ... (= vowel +_* l, r*_)  in Slavic languages results in_ lo, ro, le, re, la, ra, oro, olo, ..._depending on the concrete Slavic language.

Thus we have: _m*olo*ko, m*le*ko, m*li*ko ._.. (germ. _m*il*k, m*el*ken_, lat. _m*ul*gere_), _g*olo*va, g*la*va, g*ló*va ..._(lat. c*al*va); _k*oro*tkij_, _k*ró*tki_, _k*rát*ky _(lat. c*ur*tus, english sh*or*t), _p*oro*s-_, _p*ro*sie, p*ra*sa _(lat. p*or*cus) ....

This could explain, for example, the names of the river *El*ba / *La*be. But in case of_ -leben_ I could not find any phonetically corresponding Slavic meaningful word, even if taking in consideration what I've written before ...

My personal impression is that "leben" in toponyms simply means a "place/village/comunity..." where people _live _or _dwell_. 

(Indepedently, in Hungary there are toponyms ending in _-lak_ which is etymologically connectable with the verb _lakni _= to dwell. Of course, etymologically it has nothing to do with the German _leben_)


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## Drakonica

I'm not sure, if -leben is a slavic suffix at all.

For example, german names of Polish cities with this word ending:

-leben
Ostoja - Schadeleben
Korytowo - Walsleben

These two are completely diffrent.


-eben

Ciążeń - Streben
Rybno - Rieben
Trzebień - Kittlitztreben

-ben
Grabina - Gräben
Gubin - Guben
Lubin - Lüben
Łubianka - Luben
Wierzbna - Würben
Sarbia - Zarben
Skibno - Schübben
Wierzbno - Werben
Skibno - Schübben


All of these garbled suffixes:
-eń
-no
-ień
-ina
-in
-ia
are equivalents of -berg, -city, -town, -vilage.


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Teoretically I can imagine former polish vilages:
Chlebeń, Chlebina, (...)  (Bread-town) -> Chleben / Kleben
Kolebeń, Kolebno, (...) (Rocking-town / Craldle-town) -> Koleben


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## berndf

Drakonica said:


> -leben
> Ostoja - Schadeleben
> Korytowo - Walsleben


The German equivalent of _Korytowo_ was _Kürtow_. The modern name of the _Ostoja_ seems not to continue the former German name of _Schadeleben_. There is certainly a story behind it but I can't find it.

Please bear in mind that we are talking about historically Polabian and not Polish speaking areas. The languages are related (both are West Slavic) but they are not the same. I am not an expert on Slavic languages but in my understanding, the now extinct Polabian language was more closely related to Sorbian than to Polish.

But your example _Schadeleben_ is interesting. There is a _Schadeleben_ further west, which can be traced back to _Scadenleve_, which is obviously Low-German (_the bequest of Skado_ - _leve_ related to English _leave_ as discussed earlier in this thread) and not Polabian. It is entirely possible that all of the German toponyms in -_leben _are of Old Saxon (the ancestor language of Low German) or Old North origin but I still suspect there is a conflation of two independent suffixes, a Germanic and a Slavic one.


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## Drakonica

berndf said:


> Please bear in mind that we are talking about historically Polabian and not Polish speaking areas.


You're right. And even Old Polish was a different language, so there could have existed words and suffixes nonexistent in modern Polish.

But as I see, German versions of slavic towns are usually strongly modiffied, and Slavs do the same, making slavic version of German cities:
Brandenburg - Brandenburgia
Dresden - Drezno
Genf - Genewa
Göttingen - Getynga
Kiel - Kilonia
Leipzig - Lipsk

Polskie odpowiedniki niemieckich nazw geograficznych – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

So, I don't think it's likely to save such long suffixes in city names when they are transferred between languages.


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## berndf

German though has some consistent place name endings on Slavic origin in formerly bilingual areas, notably_ -in_ (as in _Berlin_) and_ -ow_ (as in _Pankow_). Name for cities far away for the area where a language is spoken is probably a different matter.

Note that _Genf _is just the German name for a city where German is not spoken and never has been spoken. The Polish name represents quite well the pronunciation in the historical Geneva dialect of Francoprovencal, except that the first syllable is [d͜ðə]~[d͜zə]~[ðə] and not [gɛ]. The modern Arpitan spelling (though Arpitan is no longer spoken anywhere in the canton of Geneva) is _Genèva._


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