# She sat drinking (gerund: simultaneus or subsequent action)



## Milton Sand

Hello there,
I dared to translate this example in the WR Community Translation project, "She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine." This was my attempt, "Ella se sentó a la barra a tomarse una copa de vino blanco."

If we used the Spanish _gerundio_, we would indicate simultaneous actions.

In my translation, the actions are subsequent: she sat then she drinked, but I have an usual doubt that makes me hesitate: In the original sentence, did she first sit so she could drink or was she drinking as she was taking a seat? 

Thanks in advance, my friends!


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## Chevere33

Milton Sand said:


> Hello there,
> I dared to translate this example in the WR Community Translation project, "She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine." This was my attempt, "Ella se sentó a la barra a tomarse una copa de vino blanco."
> 
> If we used the Spanish _gerundio_, we would indicate simultaneous actions.
> 
> In my translation, the actions are subsequent: she sat, then she drinked drank ... did she first sit so she could drink or was she drinking as she was taking a seat?
> 
> Thanks in advance, my friends!



Hello, Milton. Lo que escribiste es "She sat at the bar _in order to _drink . . ."

La oración original significa que mientras estaba en la barra, estaba tomando.


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## Milton Sand

Thanks for the "drank" and the comma (it's logical ). OK, as she was at the bar she was drinking; that's clear. My doubt is about the moment she sat. So, with "sat", do you mean she had already taken a seat when drinking? Is that "drinking" a gerund (noun) or a present participle (adjective)?


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## weeshus

Milton Sand said:


> Thanks for the "drank" and the comma (it's logical ). OK, as she was at the bar she was drinking; that's clear. My doubt is about the moment she sat. So, with "sat", do you mean she had already taken a seat when drinking? Is that "drinking" a gerund (noun) or a present participle (adjective)?



OK but my problem is that I am of the opinion that the original English sentence is gramatically incorrect! 

She was sitting at the bar drinking wine.

She sat at the bar and drank wine

She sat at the bar drinking wine

Hope this helps in solving the paradox of timing.

as an afterthought:

She was drinking wine when she sat at the bar

saludos
weeshus


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## Milton Sand

Oh, I see. Thanks, weeshus. That's the reason why it sounded to me like a Spanish sentence with English words (_se sentó bebiendo = when she sat, she was drinking_).

I'd like to know if somebody else agrees with you so I'll be able to report the mistake.


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## Chevere33

Milton Sand said:


> "She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine."



It might sound funny over there in England, but to American English speakers, this makes perfect sense. The only thing it lacks is a comma: "She sat at the bar, drinking a glass of white wine." En español, yo diria, "Ella estaba sentada a la barra, tomándose un vaso de vino blanco."

Milton, if I understood your concern correctly, I don't think it matters whether she had the wine glass in her hand as she sat down (meaning, she may have carried it over from a table), or if she ordered it after she sat down. The sentence doesn't really tell us. The only thing it says is that _*at that moment*_, she was at the bar, drinking wine. _O sea que en este momento se encontró tomando un vinito!_ 

ALSO, _*drinking* _is a verb here, NOT a gerund, since a gerund acts as a verb. If you said, "Her constant drinking was a source of irritation . . .", then you'd have a gerund.

Moreover, Weeshus's suggestion ("She was drinking wine when she sat at the bar") _does _leave one with questions of timing, as you suggested (Es que dices que ya estaba tomando algo al sentarse, o estás diciendo que cuando la vimos, allí estaba ella, tomando? En esta oración, es cierto que uno no sabe.)

If this does not answer your specific concerns, just reply! (By the time we all get on the same page, we might need a glass of aguardiente!!!!)


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## slazenger14

Todos los ejemplos (al menos en inglés) que puse abajo me suenan bien: 

-Ella estaba sentada a la barra a tomarse una copa de vino blanco = She was seated at the bar to drink a glass of white wine. 

-Ella se sentó a la barra a tomarse una copa de vino blanco = She sat at the bar to drink a glass of white wine. 

-Ella estaba sentada a la barra tomándose una copa de vino blanco = She was seated at the bar, drinking a glass of white wine.  

-Ella se sentó a la barra tomándose una copa de vino blanco = She sat at the bar, drinking a glass of white wine.


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## alexzzzz

_"She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine"_ to me sounds like _"She saw a bird flying in the sky" ― "When she sat at the bar, it (the bar) was drinking a glass of white wine"._

"Llevando una copa de vino blanco ella se sentó a la barra".

Creo que sin contexto podemos hacer conjeturas infinitamente.


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## kw10

Como dice Chevere, en los EE.UU. suena perfectamente bien decir "She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine."  Y yo no creo que hace falta una coma.


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## horsewishr

weeshus said:


> OK but my problem is that I am of the opinion that the original English sentence is gramatically incorrect!
> 
> She was sitting at the bar drinking wine.
> 
> She sat at the bar and drank wine
> 
> She sat at the bar drinking wine
> 
> Hope this helps in solving the paradox of timing.
> 
> as an afterthought:
> 
> She was drinking wine when she sat at the bar
> 
> saludos
> weeshus



I have to disagree with this, completely.  To me it's perfectly clear to say "She sat at the bar, drinking a glass of white wine."  It's nothing more than a simple description of the scene (not a series of actions).  The comma is required, though. 

You could expect the next sentence to be something like "Meanwhile, her blind date watched her from the other side of the room."


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## Milton Sand

I see now. Thank you guys! It makes sense to put the comma so that "drinking" is used as a verb and not as an adjective (_I know a bar drinking wine_) just as alexxx said. In Spanish, no comma is needed since the _gerundio_ works as an adverb.

Thank you again!

Regards!


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## Forero

Consider this sentence:
_
She sat there with nothing to do.

_It normally means that she was sitting there (estaba sentada ahí) with nothing to do.

A comma would make quite a difference:

_She sat there, with nothing to do._

It would put emphasis on "with nothing to do", making it independent of her sitting. Now change "with nothing to do" to "drinking wine":

_She sat there drinking a glass of wine.

_This has two possible interpretations:

_She seated herself there drinking a glass of wine.
_(Se sentó ahí bebiendo un vaso de vino.)
_
She was sitting there drinking a glass of wine.
_(Estaba sentada ahí bebiendo un vaso de vino.)

You could include a comma in any of these sentences, in Spanish or English, but I don't think it is required. And I don't believe changing "there" to "at the bar" makes much difference:
_
She sat at the bar drinking a glass of wine.
__She sat at the bar, drinking a glass of wine.
_
To me, this comma still serves to separate and emphasize what she was doing. But the comma certainly serves a different purpose with "by a man":

_She sat by a man drinking a glass of wine.
She sat by a man, drinking a glass of wine.

_There are of course other ways to remove ambiguity:

_She sat by a man who was drinking a glass of wine.
Drinking a glass of wine, she sat by a man._


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## inib

Some people use "sat" in the same sense as "was sitting", so I understand that "(ya) estaba sentada" while she drank the wine. So we are expressing simultaneous actions.
If we wanted to express subsequent actions, I think we would have to add "down".
"She sat down and (then) drank her wine".
I know I've avoided the issue of the gerund/participle. I just wanted to point out the difference between "sat" and "sat down". I hope it helps.


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## weeshus

I am sorry now that I was away for the evening – however duty calls and I feel I should explain myself!

The original sentence to be translated by Milton Sand was _She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine._

One of the reasons (I think) we care about grammar is to maintain a high level of communication, which is unambiguous, is clear and is easily understood. My difficulty with the English sentence given to Milton Sands was that it did not accord with those three principles. It _could_ have been misunderstood. Does it need a comma? Is the bar drinking wine?

Also whilst my Spanish is poor (in comparison I think with most if not all the subscribers to this thread) one thing I have grasped is that _literal translation _is not a good idea. BUT if, as an academic task,  we are going to give an example sentence or passage to translate from one language to another then should we not ensure that at least that sentence or passage is clear and unambiguous?

To get to the grammar side, I am far happier with the use of the past continuous tense to clearly express _She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white wine._ Maybe it is a matter of style for me The past continuous is formed by the past tense of the verb *to be* + the present participle. (The gerund, by the way takes exactly the same form as the present participle). The main use of the present continuous tense is for past actions which continued for some time but whose exact limits are not known and are not important. 

Used without a time expression it can indicate gradual development _the wind was rising_.  Used with a point in time it expresses an action that began before that time and would probably continue after that time.  We use the continuous past in description. In the example below note the combination of description (past continuous) and narrative (simple past)

_A wood fire was burning in the hearth and a cat was sleeping in front of it. A girl was playing the  piano and (was) singing softly to herself. Suddenly there was a knock on the door. The girl stopped playing. The cat woke up._

I felt and still feel that this type of usage applied to the original sentence is clearer, grammatically correct and in fact generally better! _She was sitting at the bar drinking a glass of white wine…._

We can also use a present participle phrase to replace a main clause, where two actions by the same subject occur simultaneously. _He rode away. He whistled as he went_ =  _He rode away whistling. _The riding and whistling were simultaneous!  (In our case I imagine that she must have been actually drinking the wine as she sat down.)

For one action immediately followed by the other, the *first* action can be expressed by a present participle. The participle must be placed first._ He opened the drawer and took out a revolver = Opening the drawer he took out a revolver. _In our case _"sitting down at the bar she drank a glass of white_ wine." (which personally I don't  like from a style point of view)

So, I am not sure whether this helps our discussion or merely muddies the water – but last night whilst I _was sitting at the bar drinking a glass of white wine_ I kept thinking about the matter!

regards
weeshus
​


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## MarieSuzanne

MIlton, según mi experiencia en traducciones del inglés norteamericano, _sat_ puede ser tanto "se sentó" como "estaba sentada", según el contexto, y en este caso es evidente que corresponde "estaba sentada", dado que nadie bebe en el momento en que realiza la acción de sentarse.


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## roanheads

Chevere --#6
ALSO, _*drinking* _is a verb here, NOT a gerund, since a gerund acts as a verb. If you said, "Her constant drinking was a source of irritation . . .", then you'd have a gerund.

But in this context " drinking " is a noun,with " constant " an adjective.
Saludos.


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## horsewishr

Chevere33 said:


> ALSO, _*drinking* _is a verb here, NOT a gerund, since a gerund acts as a verb. If you said, "Her constant drinking was a source of irritation . . .", then you'd have a gerund.



I think Chevere misspoke here (I'm sure it was just a typographical error).  Yes, _drinking_ is a verb, not a gerund here.  Because a gerund acts and a *NOUN*.


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## Chevere33

roanheads said:


> Chevere --#6
> ALSO, _*drinking* _is a verb here, NOT a gerund, since a gerund acts as a verb. If you said, "Her constant drinking was a source of irritation . . .", then you'd have a gerund.
> 
> But in this context " drinking " is a noun,with " constant " an adjective.
> Saludos.



Roanheads, I agree --- a gerund *IS* a noun! (That's what makes it a gerund!)

Horsewisher, when I said, "_*drinking*_ is a verb here", I was referring to the original sentence, which Roanheads didn't quote: "She sat at the bar drinking a glass of white  wine." There, it is a verb. A quoted above (her constant drinking), it is a gerund, which is a noun. I think Roanheads didn't understand something.

(maybe an aguardiente AND a glass of wine, now!)


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## horsewishr

Chevere, my correction was because you typed "a gerund acts as a *verb*."  As your example demonstrates, a gerund acts as a *noun*.  

I've got an unopened bottle of aguardiente in my cupboard, if you care to partake, hehe!


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## Forero

In the original sentence, _drinking _(_a glass of wine_) is a modifier, like _with a drink in her hand_.

Come to think of it, _was sitting_ is as ambiguous as _sat_, but modified by _at the bar_, it seems less so because _sitting_ can then become an adjective (participle). I don't think we have an unambiguous choice here:
_
She sat_ = _estaba sentada_, _se sentaba_, _se sentó_, etc.
_She was sitting_ = _estaba sentada_, _estaba sentándose_, _estuvo sentada_, etc.
_She was seated_ = _estaba sentada_,_ fue sentada_, etc.

"She was sitting down at the bar" is ambiguous because _down_ could be descriptive of where the bar is (in which case a comma would be helpful) or part of _sitting down_, which is ambiguous too:

_She was sitting, __down at the bar.
_Estaba sentada (o estaba sentándose) abajo en el bar.
_
She was sitting down, at the bar.
_Estaba sentada (o se estaba sentando) frente al bar.


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## roanheads

Hi Chevere,
Well, a gerund is a form of  *verb* which can *act* as a noun, depending on context.


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## housefull

weeshus said:


> OK but my problem is that I am of the opinion that the original English sentence is gramatically incorrect!
> 
> She was sitting at the bar drinking wine.
> 
> She sat at the bar and drank wine
> 
> She sat at the bar drinking wine
> 
> Hope this helps in solving the paradox of timing.
> 
> as an afterthought:
> 
> She was drinking wine when she sat at the bar
> 
> saludos
> weeshus


Oh, I see. Thanks, weeshus. That's the reason why it sounded to me like a Spanish sentence with English words (_se sentó bebiendo = when she sat, she was drinking_).

I'd like to know if somebody else agrees with you so I'll be able to report the mistake.


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## Milton Sand

I love these forums. I've learned a lot in this single thread. Another doubt comes now. Can we replace the "-ing" form for an infinitive there? Do these sentences mean the same?:
She sat at the bar *drinking* a glass of white wine. 
She sat at the bar *to drink* a glass of white wine.


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## MarieSuzanne

Milton Sand said:


> I love these forums. I've learned a lot in this single thread. Another doubt comes now. Can we replace the "-ing" form for an infinitive there? Do these sentences mean the same?:
> She sat at the bar *drinking* a glass of white wine.
> She sat at the bar *to drink* a glass of white wine.



Para mí, la primera es: _Estaba sentada bebiendo...
_La segunda, _Se sentó para beber..._


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## Forero

_She sat at the bar to drink a glass of white wine._
= _She sat at the bar in order to drink a glass of white wine.
_= _She sat at the bar for the purpose of drinking a glass of white wine._
= (Ella) se sentó a tomarse un vaso de vino blanco.
o Estaba sentada para tomarse un vaso de vino blanco.

The infinitive as modifier usually indicates purpose.


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## Milton Sand

¡Excelente! ¡Gracias, chicos!


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