# سَمَنُ /  ثَمَنُ [pronunciation of ث]



## rarabara

hello,
how do arabic people differentiate these two words in pronunciation?
this is only one sample.  (one of them means "fat" and another one means "cost" in this sample, but similarly or samely being pronunciated)
I think we (should) pronunciate one of them ( ثَمَنُ )a bit thicker but not sure.


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## تلميذ

hello,
*ث *in *ثمن *sounds like *th *in *think
س *in *سمن *sounds like *s *in *same*
did I get your question correctly?


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## rarabara

تلميذ said:


> hello,
> *ث *in *ثمن *sounds like *th *in *think
> س *in *سمن *sounds like *s *in *same*
> did I get your question correctly?


this is incorrect, because I am native kurdish and I am sure that the pronunciation of  *ث *is not in such  a way. sure. 
you will evetually/have to use "s" or the equivalent letter in somewehere "c" in english.


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## Mahaodeh

Just to point out سَمَن with a fatha  on the meem does not mean "fat", it is the maSdar of the verb سَمَنَ يَسْمُنُ meaning "to add fat to the food".

Fat is سَمْن and سَمْنة.


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## Mahaodeh

rarabara said:


> this is incorrect, because I am native kurdish and I am sure that the pronunciation of *ث *is not in such a way. sure.


It is in Arabic, maybe the letter is pronounced differently in Kurdish.


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## rarabara

Mahaodeh said:


> It is in Arabic, maybe the letter is pronounced differently in Kurdish.



so, do you agree to the initial comment?
if yes,I am not sure whether you are claiming that implication for عربية فصح


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## rarabara

Mahaodeh said:


> It is in Arabic, maybe the letter is pronounced differently in Kurdish.


I am sure that the initial comment is wrong for at least one dialect of arabic (preferably/presumably for  عربية فصح ) .
someone from saudi arabia whose english is also good,would be good here


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## Mahaodeh

rarabara said:


> so, do you agree to the initial comment?


Post #2, yes.

I understand that some dialects (most notably Egyptian and some Levantine (not all) dialects) many not distinguish clearly in pronunciation sometimes, but in Standard Arabic they are clearly distinguished.

By the way, at least in Palestinian Arabic the ث may be pronounced as th (as in think), t and s - and that's not dialect or region differences, it depends on the word.


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## elroy

I agree with Maha’s post, except for one thing: 





Mahaodeh said:


> that's not dialect or region differences, it depends on the word.


 Sometimes it is a dialectal/regional thing. For example, in some regions it’s “th” consistently.


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## rarabara

I shall expect someone who are from saudi arabia (or her/his native language is SA) and her/his english is perfect at the same time here.
  because,to be honest,I still suspect with great confidence (unfortunately)


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## elroy

ث is “th” in MSA.  Some Arabs pronounce it differently in MSA _due to dialectal influence_.  That’s all there is to it.


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## rarabara

elroy said:


> ث is “th” in MSA.  Some Arabs pronounce it differently in MSA _due to dialectal influence_.  That’s all there is to it.



if this explanation means that ث is being pronunciated  as a thicker form of س ,then everything is done and well.
I know that there is already one letter  ص which is thicker than  س  but the thing that I try to tell you is that
ث is way similar to س  and  ص in words,but again different.
and yes,now I accept that there is a detail which also includes "th" in "think" as in  english word, but I am also sure that it is not completely starting with "th" because "th" is containing "t" at the beginning and an understandable amount of realization it is more crude.

as in more succint version of telling method if you are expressing that the reading of this letter here is most like "th" but as in reading "t(s)he"
(one hidden "s" between "t" and "h" letters ,then ok.)


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## elroy

Again, the non-dialectal pronunciation is "th" -- just like the "th" in the English word "thick."
Dialect-influenced pronunciations include "s" and "t."


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## Abbe

ث is pronounced with the tip of the tounge between the upper and the lower front teeths 

Tip of the tongue (Part 4)

The 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





frequently is pronounced as a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 by mistake. This mistake can occur with both Arabs and non-Arabs. The same reason as discussed above is the cause for this: using the wrong articulation point.


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## elroy

If an Arab pronounces it "s" in MSA, it's not a "mistake": it's a dialectal influence.


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## Abbe

The article is about tajweed and its considered a mistake in that context


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## elroy

Well, obviously.


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## akhooha

It might be helpful to you to refer to
Uluslararası Fonetik Alfabe - Vikipedi

In MSA ث is pronounced as [θ]
In dialects ث can be either [t] or [s].


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## elroy

As mentioned above, it can also be [θ] in dialects. 


Mahaodeh said:


> at least in Palestinian Arabic the ث may be pronounced as th (as in think), t and s - [...] it depends on the word.


 To give examples from my own speech, I pronounce
تمثال، ثقة، مثلث، مثلاً، مثال، مَثَل، ثبت، بث، ثالوث، ثابر، ثورة، مَثَّل، مُمَثِّل with a [θ]
ثلاثة، بعث، كثير، ثور، مِثِل with a [t]
(I can't think of any where I say [s]; I'm sure there's at least one or two.)

The pronunciation can even change the meaning: I say "miθli" for "gay" and "mitli" for "like me."


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## تلميذ

rarabara said:


> this is incorrect, because I am native kurdish and I am sure that the pronunciation of  *ث *is not in such  a way. sure.
> you will evetually/have to use "s" or the equivalent letter in somewehere "c" in english.


I personally pronounce them the way I showed you,  other dialects or regions may have different variations.


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