# All dialects: Dune



## Rainbowlight

Hello everyone,

I have used an online translator to find the translation of the English word _*dune*_. There results it yielded were الكثبان الرملية and كثيب. I would like to know a bit more about the proper translations of both terms into English, their etymology and other names they might have in other Arabian dialects.

Thank you so much! : )


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## barkoosh

كَثِيب (_kathiib_) is "dune". كُثْبَان (_kuthbaan_) is the plural, "dunes". The adjective رَمْلِيّ (sandy; of sand) is sometimes added to كثيب/كثبان redundantly, maybe as a way to explain the Arabic word. The word كثيب is from the root ك ث ب which denotes closeness and aggregation (since the components would then be close to each other).

The word كثيب is not common in my country. People in general won't understand it. We use instead تَلّة رَمْل (sand hill) and تْلال رَمْل (sand hills).


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## akhooha

Also very uncommon are the words غُرد (plural  غرود) and  نَجف (plural نِجاف)


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## Rainbowlight

barkoosh said:


> كَثِيب (_kathiib_) is "dune". كُثْبَان (_kuthbaan_) is the plural, "dunes". The adjective رَمْلِيّ (sandy; of sand) is sometimes added to كثيب/كثبان redundantly, maybe as a way to explain the Arabic word. The word كثيب is from the root ك ث ب which denotes closeness and aggregation (since the components would then be close to each other).
> 
> The word كثيب is not common in my country. People in general won't understand it. We use instead تَلّة رَمْل (sand hill) and تْلال رَمْل (sand hills).


Thank you very much.


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## Rainbowlight

akhooha said:


> Also very uncommon are the words غُرد (plural  غرود) and  نَجف (plural نِجاف)


Thank you very much. Do you know if these words have a known etymology?


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## akhooha

The root of  غُرد is غَرِد which means to sing or twitter like a bird --- possibly due to the notion of "singing dunes"

As for نَجف, Steingass gives نَجَفَ as the root with a meaning of "to shave or polish an arrow, to milk a sheep well".  I do not know how accurate that is.


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## djara

The word used by people in the Sahara Desert is 'irg (عرق). The word has made its way into a number of European languages where it is used in geomorphology (erg in English)


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## Hemza

djara said:


> The word used by people in the Sahara Desert is 'irg (عرق). The word has made its way into a number of European languages where it is used in geomorphology (erg in English)


This is the one I know.


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## raamez

There is no word for dune in my dialect. The Syrian desert is actually for the most part a stony plateau. In standard Arabic we use kuthbaan as Barkoosh said.


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## Rainbowlight

raamez said:


> There is no word for dune in my dialect. The Syrian desert is actually for the most part a stony plateau. In standard Arabic we use kuthbaan as Barkoosh said.


Thank you very much.


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## Rainbowlight

djara said:


> The word used by people in the Sahara Desert is 'irg (عرق). The word has made its way into a number of European languages where it is used in geomorphology (erg in English)


Thank you very much.


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## Rainbowlight

akhooha said:


> The root of  غُرد is غَرِد which means to sing or twitter like a bird --- possibly due to the notion of "singing dunes"
> 
> As for نَجف, Steingass gives نَجَفَ as the root with a meaning of "to shave or polish an arrow, to milk a sheep well".  I do not know how accurate that is.


Thank you very much.


djara said:


> The word used by people in the Sahara Desert is 'irg (عرق). The word has made its way into a number of European languages where it is used in geomorphology (erg in English)


Thanks for your information. However, I do not understand that whenever I type عرق and search for words or images through Google all I get are words like "sweat" or "perspiration"... or images of a popular drink in the Levant. 

On another note, I cannot fail to notice the similarity between the term _*'irg*_ and the name of a sandy planet called Arrakis or Dune that was prominently featured in a recent sci-fi film. Do you think that  عرق and Arrakis might have something in common?

As for the root of غُرد, I interpret it not as a bird's sing or its tweet. I find that the notions of *modulation*, *fluctation* and *gradation*, which are indeed closely related to singing, might be more likely candidates. As some dunes have a changing and shifting nature, I think those words (specially *flux*) are more accurate when it comes to describe the nature of shifting dunes.  

I've also read that one the Arabic words for dune means indeed _*gradual*_ or *grade*.

Thanks for your comments.


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## raamez

Rainbowlight said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> Thanks for your information. However, I do not understand that whenever I type عرق and search for words or images through Google all I get are words like "sweat" or "perspiration"... or images of a popular drink in the Levant.
> 
> On another note, I cannot fail to notice the similarity between the term _*'irg*_ and the name of a sandy planet called Arrakis or Dune that was prominently featured in a recent sci-fi film. Do you think that  عرق and Arrakis might have something in common?
> 
> As for the root of غُرد, I interpret it not as a bird's sing or its tweet. I find that the notions of *modulation*, *fluctation* and *gradation*, which are indeed closely related to singing, might be more likely candidates. As some dunes have a changing and shifting nature, I think those words (specially *flux*) are more accurate when it comes to describe the nature of shifting dunes.
> 
> I've also read that one the Arabic words for dune means indeed _*gradual*_ or *grade*.
> 
> Thanks for your comments.


عرق is a very complex root in the Arabic language
'irq (pl: 'iruuq) is a blood vessel (exception is عرق النسا sciatic nerve) but also roots, hence عريق [adj] 'areeq for deep-rooted
'irq (pl: 'a'raaq) is race as in human race
'ariqa [v] means to sweat but the original meaning is to transpire,to exude etc.
Thus 'araq [n] can mean sweat for humans but also alcoholic drink made by distillation of fruits for example.


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## WadiH

This is (as you would expect) a massive topic in Arabic.

The common word in literary Arabic is كثيب, which has to do with aggregation as others mentioned.

In Saudi Arabia the most common word is طعس (descended from Classical دعص).  The root seems to do with softness or weakness.

Other words in both Classical and bedouin dialects include:

نقا (Classical: naqaa, Bedouin: nigaa): a big sand dune

عرق (Classical: ‘irq, Bedouin: ‘irg): usually refers to a large area of sand dunes (probably related to the word for ‘vein’ — think of a stretch of sandy desert like a vein of fat in a piece of meat). If you zoom into east-central Saudi Arabia on Google maps you’ll see many such deserts. They look like red strips or tongues portuding into the white and black rocky areas.

نفود nufud: modern vernacular word that is the generic term for a sandy area or a sandy desert.  It’s a plural word so you also hear the singular form نفد nifd.

ضاحي (DHaaHii): old Najdi vernacular synonym for nufud, from the root for whiteness or brightness (not much used anymore but occurs in poetry).

لوى (liwaa), دارة (daarah), حقف (Hiqf): all Classical words that have to do with the circular or curved shape that dunes often take. لوى is still used in bedouin dialects.

حبل (Habl): literally means ‘rope’, and describes longitudinal sand dunes.

There are many, many others that come up when you search for رمل (sand) in Classical lexicons (words for large dunes, for long dunes, for circular dunes, for sandy deserts, for dunes with shrubs in them, etc.), not to mention all the bedouin words that you won’t find in dictionaries.


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## Hemza

Rainbowlight said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> Thanks for your information. However, I do not understand that whenever I type عرق and search for words or images through Google all I get are words like "sweat" or "perspiration"... or images of a popular drink in the Levant.


You may look for عرق صحراء to allow Google to be more accurate since as said, عرق encompasses a lot of meanings. In the Maghreb it is said "3irg" while "3arq/3arg" bears other mearings (vein/race (I think) sweating, or عرقسوس, licorice stick amongst others). All I think are related to "vein" or some kind of trail.


Rainbowlight said:


> On another note, I cannot fail to notice the similarity between the term _*'irg*_ and the name of a sandy planet called Arrakis or Dune that was prominently featured in a recent sci-fi film. Do you think that  عرق and Arrakis might have something in common?


The name of the planet (I like the universe of Dune ) comes from الراقص which means the dancer which is according to my search (I too have been intrigued by the name of the planet) is the name of a real star called mu (the Greek letter) Draconis.


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## Rainbowlight

raamez said:


> عرق is a very complex root in the Arabic language
> 'irq (pl: 'iruuq) is a blood vessel (exception is عرق النسا sciatic nerve) but also roots, hence عريق [adj] 'areeq for deep-rooted
> 'irq (pl: 'a'raaq) is race as in human race
> 'ariqa [v] means to sweat but the original meaning is to transpire,to exude etc.
> Thus 'araq [n] can mean sweat for humans but also alcoholic drink made by distillation of fruits for example.


Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.


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## Rainbowlight

Wadi Hanifa said:


> This is (as you would expect) a massive topic in Arabic.
> 
> The common word in literary Arabic is كثيب, which has to do with aggregation as others mentioned.
> 
> In Saudi Arabia the most common word is طعس (descended from Classical دعص).  The root seems to do with softness or weakness.
> 
> Other words in both Classical and bedouin dialects include:
> 
> نقا (Classical: naqaa, Bedouin: nigaa): a big sand dune
> 
> عرق (Classical: ‘irq, Bedouin: ‘irg): usually refers to a large area of sand dunes (probably related to the word for ‘vein’ — think of a stretch of sandy desert like a vein of fat in a piece of meat). If you zoom into east-central Saudi Arabia on Google maps you’ll see many such deserts. They look like red strips or tongues portuding into the white and block rocky areas.
> 
> نفود nufud: modern vernacular word that is the generic term for a sandy area or a sandy desert.
> 
> لوى (liwaa), دارة (daarah), حقف (Hiqf): all have to do with the circular or curved shape that dunes often take.
> 
> حبل (Habl): literally means ‘rope’, and describes longitudinal sand dunes.
> 
> There are many, many others that come up when you search for رمل (sand) in Classical lexicons (words for large dunes, for long dunes, for circular dunes, for sandy deserts, for dunes with shrubs in them, etc.), not to mention all the bedouin words that you won’t find in dictionaries.


Fascinating stuff. Thanks for all your help.


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## Rainbowlight

Hemza said:


> You may look for عرق صحراء to allow Google to be more accurate since as said, عرق encompasses a lot of meanings. In the Maghreb it is said "3irg" while "3arq/3arg" bears other mearings (vein/race (I think) sweating, or عرقسوس, licorice stick amongst others).
> 
> The name of the planet (I like the univers of Dune ) comes from الراقص which means the dancer which is according to my search (I too have been intrigued by the name of the planet) is the name of a star called mu (the Greek letter) Draconis.


Thank you very much.


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## WadiH

Rainbowlight said:


> Fascinating stuff. Thanks for all your help.



Thanks, I added a couple more words.


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## djara

Rainbowlight said:


> However, I do not understand that whenever I type عرق and search for words or images through Google all I get are words like "sweat" or "perspiration"... or images of a popular drink in the Levant.


Try searching for عرق رملي
Please note that, although the word 'irg is most probably of Arabic origin, it is not a word used in standard Arabic. It is a local word whose usage doesn't seem to extend beyond the North African desert region.


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## Rainbowlight

djara said:


> Try searching for عرق رملي
> Please note that, although the word 'irg is most probably of Arabic origin, it is not a word used in standard Arabic. It is a local word whose usage doesn't seem to extend beyond the North African desert region.


Thank you!


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## Hemza

djara said:


> Try searching for عرق رملي
> Please note that, although the word 'irg is most probably of Arabic origin, it is not a word used in standard Arabic. It is a local word whose usage doesn't seem to extend beyond the North African desert region.


محمية عروق بني معارض - ويكيبيديا

Look at this. If the word is present in the Maghreb (and I'm pretty sure it is also used in some parts of Egypt given the proximity of some dialects there with the Maghrebi ones) it is certainly used in Arabia. The pronunciation of it (3uruug) even shows that it isn't taken from Standard Arabic and it is probably used in the local dialects at least.

By the way on the article كثيب - ويكيبيديا
There is a mistake: the first picture is probably from Morocco but the description says it is
عروق الشيبة في المغرب
While this place is located in Saudi Arabia and doesn't look like what is displayed on the picture. Can someone correct it? I can't it doesn't let me.


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## WadiH

djara said:


> Try searching for عرق رملي
> Please note that, although the word 'irg is most probably of Arabic origin, it is not a word used in standard Arabic. It is a local word whose usage doesn't seem to extend beyond the North African desert region.



'irg is a very common vernacular word for sand dunes in the Arabian Peninsula (see my post above and Hamza's).  It is attested in FuSHa as well.  From _Al-Qamuus_:

*عِرْقُ*: للشجرِ والبَدَنِ: معروف، ج: *عُروقٌ* *وأعراقٌ* *وعِراقٌ*، وأصْلُ كلِّ شيءٍ، والأرضُ المِلْحُ لا تُنْبِتُ، والجَبَلُ الغليظُ المُنْقادُ لا يُرْتَقَى لصُعوبَتِهِ، والجَبَلُ الصغيرُ، ضدٌّ، والجَسَدُ، وموضع، واللَّبَنُ، والنِتاجُ الكثيرُ، ولَقَبُ الحُسينِ بنِ عبدِ الجَّبَّارِ، والسَّبَخَةُ تُنْبِتُ الطَّرْفاءَ، والحَبْلُ الرَّقيقُ من الرَّمْلِ المُسْتَطيلِ مع الأرضِ، أو المكانُ المُرْتَفِعُ، ج: *عُروقٌ*.


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