# While I was conducting...



## Taniaa

E' corretta questa mia frase? Fra parentesi ho messo alcuni dubbi alcuni dubbi 

While I was conducting (or, While conducting) my research I had lived (or, had been living) in Italia, and I still regularly conduct reserach there.


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## You little ripper!

Taniaa said:
			
		

> E' corretta questa mia frase? Fra parentesi ho messo alcuni dubbi alcuni dubbi
> 
> While I was conducting (or, While conducting) my research I had lived (or, had been living) in Italia, and I still regularly conduct reserach there.


Hi Taniaa,

_While conducting my research I was living in Italy; I still regularly conduct research there,_ flows better to me.


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## Taniaa

Thanks a lot.

Permettimi però di farti alcune domande 

- La mia frase è incorretta (o semplicemente it flows worse)? 

- Nella mia ipotesi, grammaticalmente avrei dovuto usare Had Lived or Had Been Living ?

- Also,what about?
While conduction my research I lived in Italy....


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## shamblesuk

Scusami, ma Charles ha ragione.  

'While I was conducting my research (imperfetto), I was living (imperfetto)'. 

Anche puoi dire 'I conducted my research (passato) when/while I was living in Italy (imperfetto)'



			
				Taniaa said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Permettimi però di farti alcune domande
> 
> - La mia frase è incorretta (o semplicemente it flows worse)? *E'* *incoretta*
> 
> - Nella mia ipotesi, grammaticalmente avrei dovuto usare Had Lived  or Had Been Living  ?
> 
> - Also,what about?
> While conduction my research I lived in Italy  ....


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## You little ripper!

Taniaa said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Permettimi però di farti alcune domande
> 
> - La mia frase è incorretta (o semplicemente it flows worse)?
> 
> - Nella mia ipotesi, grammaticalmente avrei dovuto usare Had Lived or Had Been Living ?
> 
> - Also,what about?
> While conduction my research I lived in Italy....


I'm not very good with grammar rules taniaa; I just go by sound but _While conducting my research I had been living in Italia, and I still regularly conduct research there _sounds grammatically correct to me.
_While conduction my research_ is incorrect. You could say _In the conduction of my research....._

Edit_:_ Thanks Shambles for explaining that. I knew that the tenses had to agree but couldn't remember which one it was.


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## Alfry

Tieni presente che il while in while I conducted esprime un concetto al passato mentre si svolge per cui hai bisogno del past continuos dopo, I was living


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## Taniaa

Alfry e Charles Grazie.

Quindi ricapitolando se:

1- uso While I conducted
simple past + past continous

While I conducted my research I had been living...

2- uso While I was conductiong

seguo consigli di Shambles


giusto Alfry?


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## ElaineG

> While I conducted my research I had been living...


 
Non sono d'accordo.  Dovrebbe essere:  While I conducted my research, I _lived_ in Italy o

While I was conducting my research, I _was living_ in Italy.

I can see no reason not to have parallel tenses for these parallel actioins.

While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italy is wrong. 

You use the past perfect to indicate an action that was going on _earlier_ in the past when another past action occurred:

I had been living in Italy for two years when I decided to conduct some research.


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## Taniaa

... Elaine, grazie per il contributo.

il mio testo di grammatica insegna che 
il past perfect continuos si deve usare quando una azione (passata) si ripete in diverse situazioni o in maniera continuativi. In questo caso il vivere in un luogo corrisponde a ciò.

In accordo con quanto scrivi, devo sempre utilizzare il past perfect continous prima del simple past... tuttavia, sono abbastanza sicura di aver letto diverse volte frasi con past perfect continous usato non 'prima' di un'altra azione accaduta nel passato, ma semplicemente in 'contrasto' con essa...

Spero di non aver complicato nuovamente il tutto...


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## You little ripper!

> While I conducted my research I had been living...


 


			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Non sono d'accordo. Dovrebbe essere: While I conducted my research, I _lived_ in Italy o
> 
> While I was conducting my research, I _was living_ in Italy.
> 
> I can see no reason not to have parallel tenses for these parallel actioins.
> 
> While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italy is wrong.
> 
> You use the past perfect to indicate an action that was going on _earlier_ in the past when another past action occurred:
> 
> I had been living in Italy for two years when I decided to conduct some research.


As I said, I don't know what the grammar rules are; I just go by ear, and that sounds perfectly O.K. to me.


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## ElaineG

> ma semplicemente in 'contrasto' con essa...


 
Può essere, non posso essere sicura che vuol dire "in contrasto" senza esempi.

Ma, qui, non c'è un "contrasto" tra "while I was conducting my research" e "had been living in Italy."

A contrast would be:

"While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italy, but then when I stopped researching, I moved to France."

But I can promise you that (standing alone):

"While I conducted my research, I had been living in Italy" is grammatically incorrect.


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## Taniaa

Cara ElaineG...is this one correct then?

"While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italy, but then when I stopped researching, I moved to France."

(Thanks for using 'stopped researching', now I really can understand that rule!  Mille grazie!)


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## ElaineG

> Cara ElaineG...is this one correct then?
> 
> "While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italy, but then when I stopped researching, I moved to France."


 
Yes, and I'm _guessing_ that's what your book means by a "contrast."


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## Taniaa

Elaine,


1) se tale frase è corretta, anche la mia frase iniziale lo è... sbaglio?

cfr.
While I was conducting my research I had been living in Italia, and I still regularly conduct reserach there.

2) My Oxford A-Z of Grammar and Punctuaction, about the use of the Past Perfect Continuous, says:

* to refer to a continuing action in the past contrasted with a single completed action in the past.

I was wondering if I can say
"He had been working in NY when he met his girlfriend"
Can I also say "He met his girlfriend when He has been working in NY"?


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## ElaineG

> While I was conducting my research, I had been living in Italia, and I still regularly conduct research there.


 
No: "While I was conducting my research, I lived/was living in Italy, and ...." In the other sentence, "stopped" provides a cut off, so the "had been living" is the time anterior to that.



> He had been working in NY for two years when he met his girlfriend OR
> 
> He was working in NY when he met his girlfriend.
> 
> Can I also say "He met his girlfriend when he wasworking in NY"?


 
Without a time duration, the past continuous is better than the past perfect continuous in this situation (to show an action that was going on prior to another action).

The past perfect continuous should always be used with a length of time -- either implied (until I stopped researching) or explicit (for 2 years, 5 minutes) etc.  

Otherwise, use the past continuous.


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## Taniaa

Without a time duration, the past continuous is better than the past perfect continuous in this situation (to show an action that was going on prior to another action).
The past perfect continuous should always be used with a length of time -- either implied (until I stopped researching) or explicit (for 2 years, 5 minutes) etc. 
Otherwise, use the past continuous.

Si..credo di aver capito (speriamo di saper applicare la regola quando servirà! ) questo tuo ultimo post mi è davvero prezioso! Grazie mille a tutti!


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## You little ripper!

So what tense is _had been living_?


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## Taniaa

had been living > past perfect continuous
had lived > past perfect


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## You little ripper!

Taniaa said:
			
		

> had been living > past perfect continuous
> had lived > past perfect


Thanks taniaa. What do you call those in Italian?


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## carrickp

I think you all are messing up by trying to string two progressive tenses together. I think it's "While I was conducting my research, I lived in Italy."


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## ElaineG

Well, I did offer that as possibility in post #15.

I don't see much difference between "lived" and "was living"; all I know is that "had been living" is wrong.


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## You little ripper!

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Well, I did offer that as possibility in post #15.
> 
> I don't see much difference between "lived" and "was living"; all I know is that "had been living" is wrong.


Grammar.com doesn't agree. When I put that phrase in for checking, this is what came up:

*Your Input*:
*While I conducted my research, I had been living..*

*No Suggestions*.... 
*While I conducted my research, I had been living..*

Link


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## ElaineG

What can I say? Automated grammar checkers are even worse than automatic translators if that's possible.

The sentence is wrong.

I know it can be confusing if you are not familiar with English grammar rules.  Just read up on the use of the Continuous Past Perfect (also known as the Past Perfect Progressive) and you'll start to understand.

Here's a simple formulation that should help you understand:




> What if you want to know how long that first activity happened?  If you want to know how long the activity happened, or if you want to express the duration of the activity, you can use the *past perfect progressive*.
> Before Jackie got home, it had been raining for 3 hours..


 

http://www.myenglishteacher.net/past_perfect_progressive.html


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## You little ripper!

ElaineG said:
			
		

> What can I say? Automated grammar checkers are even worse than automatic translators if that's possible.
> 
> The sentence is wrong.
> 
> Just read up on the use of the Continuous Past Perfect and you'll start to understand.


I have read up on it but as with everything I think you need to be flexible and use common sense.  That sentence makes sense to me. Grammar rules are just guidelines and should be treated as such in my opinion.


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## ElaineG

Yeah, O.K.  Well, it's still wrong; plenty of ungrammatical sentences make sense.

I could write butchered Italian and it would make sense to someone, but it wouldn't be helpful if the Italians didn't correct me.


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## elroy

Charles, I don't know what Grammar.com is supposed to be, but I agree with Elaine.

"I had been living" is used to describe a continuous state in the past that preceded some other past state or action.

_I had been living in Italy for six years_ *when I began* to learn Italian.
*When I spoke* to you, _I had been living in Italy for a while._

In this case, however, we do not have _chronology _(i.e. one state that began before another) but rather _simultaneousness_.  

"While I was conducting my research" is not an isolated action the background to which a past perfect continuous verb could provide.  Rather, it is itself a continuous state that occurred _at the same time_ as the living in Italy.  Thus there is no reason to use the past perfect.

a. _While I was conducting my research, I lived in Italy._
b. _While I was conducting my research, I was living in Italy._
(concurrence of two states)

c. _I had been living in Italy when I started conducting my research._
(no concurrence for some time; concurrence at a later time)

Notice that the subordinate clause with "had been living" tends to start with "when" and not "while," because that indicates the change from one state to another _(namely, living in Italy but not researching -> living in Italy and researching)_.

Basically, sentences a. and b. do not tell us when I started living in Italy, as related to the time I spent researching.  We do not know if I lived in Italy before that or after that, only that I lived there _during_ that time.  Sentence c. tells us that I lived in Italy _for some time *before*_ that time, and also during.


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## You little ripper!

elroy said:
			
		

> Charles, I don't know what Grammar.com is supposed to be, but I agree with Elaine.
> 
> "I had been living" is used to describe a continuous state in the past that preceded some other past state or action.
> 
> _I had been living in Italy for six years_ *when I began* to learn Italian.
> *When I spoke* to you, _I had been living in Italy for a while._
> 
> In this case, however, we do not have _chronology _(i.e. one state that began before another) but rather _simultaneousness_.
> 
> "While I was conducting my research" is not an isolated action the background to which a past perfect continuous verb could provide. Rather, it is itself a continuous state that occurred _at the same time_ as the living in Italy. Thus there is no reason to use the past perfect.
> 
> a. _While I was conducting my research, I lived in Italy._
> b. _While I was conducting my research, I was living in Italy._
> (concurrence of two states)
> 
> c. _I had been living in Italy when I started conducting my research._
> (no concurrence for some time; concurrence at a later time)
> 
> Notice that the subordinate clause with "had been living" tends to start with "when" and not "while," because that indicates the change from one state to another _(namely, living in Italy but not researching -> living in Italy and researching)_.
> 
> Basically, sentences a. and b. do not tell us when I started living in Italy, as related to the time I spent researching. We do not know if I lived in Italy before that or after that, only that I lived there _during_ that time. Sentence c. tells us that I lived in Italy _for some time *before*_ that time, and also during.


As I said earlier, no matter what the rules are, the grammar has to make sense. The reversal of that sentence to _I had been living there while I conducted my research_ makes perfect sense to me also. I'm not saying that the other sentences suggested are not correct. In fact I would probably use those in preference to this one, but I can't see anything wrong with this one.


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## elroy

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> As I said earlier, no matter what the rules are, the grammar has to make sense. The reversal of that sentence to _I had been living there while I conducted my research_ makes perfect sense to me also. I'm not saying that the other sentences suggested are not correct. In fact I would probably use those in preference to this one, but I can't see anything wrong with this one.


 
Of course the grammar has to make sense. What about my grammatical explanation does not make sense to you? 

As for your sentence - on its own, it does not work at all, let alone as a substitute for the others (which you seem to suggest it could be when you say that you would "prefer" the other ones). 

The past perfect begs further clarification. "I had been living there while I conducted my research"...and then what? I can't come to terms with that sentence as a complete thought. 

I can, however, imagine the following:

_I can understand why you were confused about where I was living last September. I moved to France in January, but in September, *I had been living in Italy* for a month *while I conducted my research* (the demands of my research necessitated that I move there in August), but I was certainly planning to move back to France in October after I was done researching._

I repeat: On its own, it does not make any sense - no matter how you look at it, grammatically or otherwise.


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## You little ripper!

elroy said:
			
		

> As for your sentence - on its own, it does not work at all, let alone as a substitute for the others (which you seem to suggest it could be when you say that you would "prefer" the other ones).
> 
> The past perfect begs further clarification. "I had been living there while I conducted my research"...and then what? I can't come to terms with that sentence as a complete thought.
> 
> I can, however, imagine the following:
> 
> _I can understand why you were confused about where I was living last September. I moved to France in January, but in September, *I had been living in Italy* for a month *while I conducted my research* (the demands of my research necessitated that I move there in August), but I was certainly planning to move back to France in October after I was done researching._
> 
> I repeat: On its own, it does not make any sense - no matter how you look at it, grammatically or otherwise.


Elroy, very little by itself makes sense. You need context. Conversation that goes on before a statement can add to what is an incomplete statement by itself and can complete it.
Thank you for the time and energy you've put into this. I really appreciate it.


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## moodywop

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Thanks taniaa. What do you call those in Italian?


 
Past perfect simple = trapassato

Past perfect continuous = trapassato progressivo

This usage issue reminds me of Elroy's tense query (_non immaginavo/avrei immaginato che volessi/avresti voluto..) _which also received contrasting answers from native speakers.

It would be extremely interesting to find out how Italian members would translate the example sentences. I must admit I've been saying possible translations aloud for a while and I'm stumped. I'm not sure whether the present perfect or the imperfect sounds better in some cases. I would probably _tagliare la testa al toro _and opt for a simpler sentence structure:

_Ho trascorso due mesi in Italia durante lo svolgimento della mia ricerca_

Of course it all depends on whether the research was conducted entirely in Italy or involved a temporary move to Italy for some field work.


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## You little ripper!

moodywop said:
			
		

> Past perfect simple = trapassato
> 
> Past perfect continuous = trapassato progressivo


Thanks Carlo.


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