# sonzai suru/jitsuzai suru



## JapanForever

Hi there, 
I would like to know. Is there any difference between these words "sonzai suru" and "jitsuzai suru"? I know they mean both "to exist" but it seems having a difference. Is there any difference if I use one of them to translate for example "He still exists in this world". 
Thanks for your answer


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## noriaki

The opposit word of 実在(jitsuzai)is 架空(kakuu).
架空 means fictitious.
If you want to discuss whether something is real or fictional, you can use 実在.

The opposit word of 存在(sonzai)is 消滅(syoumetsu).
消滅 means extinction.
I think 存在 is more general. But for example,
you can use 存在 when a topic is whether something exists in the particular time frame or not.
For the sentence "He still exists in this world",  存在 is better.


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## JapanForever

Because one time I saw this sentence : 彼女は, まだこの世に実在する...(a character (she) just came to die before this sentence)
What does it mean?


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## noriaki

That means "She still exists in this world."
I emphasize a difference, but we use both at the same situation.

Or a writer want to express folloing things. (Not definitly)
- After she died, she exists only in someone's mind. (She became a ideal existence)


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## JapanForever

What do you mean? She is still alive? SO it isn't sonzai?


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## noriaki

I'm sorry for my bad explanation.

She is still alive, and you can use both.


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## JapanForever

Actually that's part of moments of my other topic 僕と、あ話をようよ. Character became crazy after the death of the girl and seeing some shadows looking like her, he thought it was her. Is it change anything?


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## noriaki

Sorry, what is the question? You are asking about how the character's mind changed?


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## JapanForever

No I wanted to mean if in this more developed context, it changes anything to 実在する? If that meant alive or real...sorry didn't understand much


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## noriaki

I apologise for my bad expresson. It confused you a lot.

1. The difference I described is just basic meanings. Not for this case.
2. The best way to express that someone is alive, is 生きている. Not 存在 and 実在. It's a special case.
   (A kind of literary expression)
3. In this case, you can use both of them grammatically, and the reason why a writer used 実在 is only in his mind.
   (I don't know.)
    - I guessed a writer's mind but I'm not sure.

Thanks.


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## JapanForever

Is it help you if I told you that the following sentence is ただ妹てあるXが存在する幸せを、 彼は心の底から噛み締めていく.?


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## noriaki

Hello again, followings are just my guess.
"彼女は, まだこの世に実在する..." describes a character's(彼) mind after a gird died?

(1)-(3) are timeline.

(1) A girl is alive.
(2) The girl died.
(3) Actually the girl isn't alive, but the character(彼) feels like that the gird is still alive.

The writer may want to express (3) and used 実在する.

Thanks.


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## JapanForever

So that's correct to use 実在する in this case?


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## noriaki

Yes.

But actually, you can use 実在する not only in this case but also in a case that someone is alive (not the best, literally expression or some special cases).


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## JapanForever

Hm. Okay even if the better word is 生きている? What is difference between these two terms?


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## noriaki

We understand someone is alive only with a expression "生きている"
But meaning of "実在する" is just "exist", and we need the other words or sentences to express that someone is alive.


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## JapanForever

So it in't real in this case?


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## noriaki

"彼女は, まだこの世に実在する..." describes a character's(彼) mind after a gird died?

If so, 実在する can be "real" or "alive", or can include both meanings.


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## JapanForever

Yes somehow the girl was tortured before this character and killed in a cruel manner in the visual novel and he became mad afterward? And there is this sentence.


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## noriaki

Okay, It can be.

By the way, are you asking something else? Because there is a "?" after the word "afterward".


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## JapanForever

Oups. I badly wrote sentence. Sorry^^By the way a last question: does it mean real in the sense material or antyhing else?


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## noriaki

Because it is not described in the sentences, followings are just my guess.

I think it's not material but a feeling.
He feels like, the girl is still besides him.


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## JapanForever

Other thing I didn't mention is the girl is actually a kind of ghost in the story and before to die the protagonist fell under the illusion she was materialized (with a real body). Hope it helped you


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## noriaki

Sorry, it is difficult to understand without the whole story.

Is the story like this?
(1) Actually a girl was alive.
(2) She was materialized with her real body just before her death.
(3) Actually she is a kind of ghost, but she has a real body.


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## JapanForever

The two one. But it was just an illusion for the hero


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## noriaki

The story is like that? (1)-(4) are timeline, not options.

(1) The girl was tortured. (Actually she was alive.)
(2) And then, she was going to die.
 (3) Just before her death, the hero fell under the illusion she was materialized (with a real body).
-- Then, he felt like that she wasn't going to die.
(4) Actually she died. (She killed in a cruel manner.)

If it is different, could you fix them?

If they are correct or similar, the sentences you are asking is at (3) ?


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## JapanForever

That's actually more in this order:
1) The girl is a kind of ghost (a immaterial entity)
2) Just before she is tortured, the hero fell under the illusion to see her materialized (material)
3)  she is then tortured and killed
4) The hero became insane and imagined she was still alive (he thinks seeing her appears around him under shadows forms)
Is it change anything for the context of the word?


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## noriaki

Thank you for the detail. I see.

So the sentences you are asking is at 2) ?
If so, 実在する in the context means "she is a real one. (she exists materially in the world)"


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## JapanForever

No actually that's toward the end (the hero became insane and imagine she was still here/alive. For a gory context, the girl has been slaughtered brutally and the piece of her body moved and she appeared under this form)


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## noriaki

Thank you for the reply.

彼女は, まだこの世に実在する...
ただ妹であるXが存在する幸せを、 彼は心の底から噛み締めていく.

"僕と、話をしようよ"
彼女が幸せならば, それでいいと. 
そんな彼の想いを今もなお強めている. 

I think you told that, these were the sentences related to this topic.

I feel, it doesn't matter for a writer that 実在する includes the sense material or not.
The writer wanted to express just the fact that, "He feels like, the girl is still *really* beside him."


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## JapanForever

Even if she is material? Or the hero thinks she is still material while he's insane?


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## noriaki

> Even if she is material?
I'm confusing. 
"the shadows forms" is material?

> Or the hero thinks she is still material while he's insane?
I can't answer this question. I guess even if you show us the whole sentences, it doesn't expressed directly.


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