# 我<生病>了



## alexonline

[我生病了]
大家好：

Dictionaries say that 生 is :

1. 'to give birth to'
2. 'to breed','to grow (plants,etc)'

So,please,which one is that,'I have given birth to an illness' or 'I have grown an illness'?

谢谢。


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## Junshin

生病's “生” belongs to neither of them.

生病 = be / get ill / sick

我*生病*了 means I am ill / sick.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Does it mean that I have just fallen ill or I fell ill ?


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## M Mira

^The latter. It applies to the entire duration of sickness, not just the start.

Back on topic, I take 生病 as a fixed usage, and don't really think about what exact meaning 生 has here.


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## alexonline

M Mira said:


> ..., I take 生病 as a fixed usage, and don't really think about what exact meaning 生 has here.



I often hear that.That`s what natives normally do,because at the back of their mind they know.I do in my mother tongue,too,but have to spell out hard things to the students,as nowadays no-one wants to memorize things and then to extract them mechanically,like robots,people want to understand what they`re doing.And it`s much easier to memorize once you know exactly what you`re putting in that box of ours.I,for one,could never remember even one of the phrases,like  要不,可有可无 and others,because they were just a meaningless collection of characters to me,but after they were broken down to me,by some good people here at the forum,wake me up in the middle of the night and I`ll tell you what they mean.


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## SuperXW

^Then, you can try to understand that 生 in 生病 is coincident with both meanings you've listed.
The essential meaning of 生 describes the process from non-existence to existence (从无到有的过程). Therefore, it can mean both "to give birth" and "to breed, to grow", and "to produce", "to get/have", "to become".
It wouldn’t be hard to understand 生 in 生病 if you understand its essential meaning.


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## alexonline

Thank you.


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## Skatinginbc

生= 懷有 'bear, carry, hold' (e.g., 生心= 懷有異心, 生氣= 懷有怒火、不滿)


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## alexonline

^ Thanks,Skatinginbc. Wordreference.com`s dictionary gives a synonym for 生 as 患 ((=患) get ▼ 生病 shēngbìng get ill),so,I guess I`ll settle for that.


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## YangMuye

我生病 syntactically means "to me, disease happens", just like 你有病 "in you, disease is".
It may appear like a intransitive verb with a locative complement, but we native speakers treat it the same way as a transitive verb.


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## alexonline

YangMuye said:


> 我生病 syntactically means "to me, disease happens", just like 你有病 "in you, disease is".



So,你有病 literally is not 'you have  a disease',but 'in you, there is a disease'? It`s like 北京有梅花 = 在北京有梅花 ‘in Beijing grows 梅花’ .Did I get you right,YangMuye?  Should I consider the above sentences as {topic-comment/double-subjects} ('[in] you - there is a disease') or as regular {subj + verb}  ones ('You have a disease')?    



YangMuye said:


> It may appear like a intransitive verb with a locative complement, but we native speakers treat it the same way as a transitive verb.



Could you,please,elaborate on this a little as I didn`t quite understand it? It seems an interesting point I didn`t realize before.


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## YangMuye

Because there is no such syntactic marker in Chinese, we cannot say for sure that the 北京 in 北京有梅花 is the location rather than the subject. (In Japanese, there is a clear distinction between the nominative, objective and dative case. It is much easier to decide.)
Either way, we just treat 北京 as the subject and 梅花 as the object as if 有 is a transitive verb, although it logically should not.
Similarly, we say 树开花, 眼流泪 which logically should mean 花开在树上, 泪从眼流出


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## Skatinginbc

生 can be both transitive (e.g., 生起病來 like 唱起歌來, 賺起錢來, 燒起火來, 吃起藥來) and intransitive (e.g., 病生起來 like 歌唱起來, 錢賺起來, 火燒起來, 藥吃起來).  It is hard to decide whether it is transitive or intransitive from the surface structure alone (e.g., 他生了病 vs. 這裡死了人 ==> 死 is intransitive).

發生 'happen' ==> 發 (發疹 = 起疹, 出疹) is a near synonym of 生 (e.g., 生病 vs. 發病, 生悲 vs. 發悲), but they are not identical (e.g., 生情 vs. 發情). 發 emphasizes the symptoms (e.g., 發瘋, 發春, 發呆).  生 may not reveal any sign (e.g., 生悶氣).

Although 生病 is a synonym of 染病、得病 'catch disease', 抱病、懷病 'carry disease', and 罹病、害病、患病 'suffer from illness', 生 does not mean 'suffer' (罹、害、or 患), 'catch' (染、得), or 'carry' (抱、懷).  I think 生 is closest to 有 'have, be in existence' as in 染有、懷有、患有.  Because 得 can also mean 'have, possess' 具有, I think 得病 (like '_get_ sick') and 有病 (like '_have_ a cold') are the closest synonyms of 生病.


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## alexonline

Thanks,everyone for your contribution.

From what I`ve heard in this thread I can come to the conclusion that  the sentences we`re discussing here may be of two different categories in Chinese (correct me if I`m wrong).

1.Category 1: {subj + verb} or transitive verbs as YangMuye suggested: 我有一条狗 – ‘I have a dog’, 我 beyond question being the subject,not an adverbial modifier of place, 有 being pure possession, and 狗 being the object of possession. Or,not possession,but still a {subj + verb} structure:,ex. 我得病了 - ‘I got a disease’,我看书了 - 'I`ve read a book'.

2. Category 2: looks like we have the same phenomenon in Russian,where  we only for special purposes say  ‘I have a dog’,but normally it`s roughly 我这儿有一条狗 - ‘In my possession there is a dog’,which rules out the {subj + verb} structure,but in reality is one with an adverbial modifier of place. Where? In my posession.What is there? There`s a dog. I guess,this may be the case with the second category of sentences in Chinese,like 树开花  in reality being 在树上开花, 北京有梅花 in reality being 在北京有梅花，or intransitive verbs as YangMuye noted.

In this category are verbs meaning not possession,but instead presence (北京有梅花,我有病) and ‘从无到有的过程’,like ‘come into existence’, ‘appear’, ‘arise’,’show up’,’happen’ (我生病了).BTW,all these meanings are expressed by 生，发 and 发生. Both SuperXW and the dictionaries confirm that: "The essential meaning of 生 describes the process from non-existence to existence (从无到有的过程))".So, 我生病了means ‘In me came into existence/appeared, arose,showed up,happened a disease’,我 being an adverbial modifier of place, 病– the subject and 生– the verb,same as 树开花 = 在树上开花.

I think, YangMuye here speaks about the same things:



YangMuye said:


> 我生病 syntactically means "to me, disease happens", just like 你有病 "in you, disease is". It may appear like an intransitive verb with a locative complement, but we native speakers treat it the same way as a transitive verb.
> 
> Because there is no such syntactic marker in Chinese, we cannot say for sure that the 北京 in 北京有梅花 is the location rather than the subject. (In Japanese, there is a clear distinction between the nominative, objective and dative case. It is much easier to decide. Either way, we just treat 北京 as the subject and 梅花 as the object as if 有 is a transitive verb, although it logically should not. Similarly, we say 树开花, 眼流泪 which logically should mean 花开在树上, 泪从眼流出)



I think,because there`re no syntactic markers, it looks like native Chinese speakers treat sentences like 我生病 as being of the {subj + verb} structure (Category 1), but in reality they definitely feel unconsciously that they are of Category 2,although this feeling is sometimes hard to realize let alone explain.


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