# Thank you in Belgium



## Istriano

Hi, I would like to know if this is correct,
How to say_ Thank you _in Belgium:


_Dank je _ (formal)
_Dank u _ (informal)


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## iKevin

Dankjewel/Dank je wel/Dankje <-- informal
Dankuwel/Dank u wel/Dank u <-- formal

or just ''danke''/''bedankt'' ;D

Edit: ''Belgium'' isn't a language, it should be ''Dutch'', or ''Belgian Dutch''/''Flemish''.


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## Peterdg

En teoría, iKevin lleva razón y así es en Holanda. En Flandes, sin embargo, casi sólo oirás "Dank U", formalmente o informalmente.

Lo que pasa es que en el flamenco (la variante del neerlandés que se habla en Flandes) tenemos una forma diferente de la segunda persona del singular ("ge"/"gij"). Lo puedes comparar más o menos con el voseo en AL. Para las formas del acusativo y del dativo de la segunda persona (singular o plural), siempre utilizamos la forma formal "u/U" mientras que en Holanda utilizarán "je/jou/jullie" para la variante informal. Los habrá que lo llamarán "tussentaal" (lengua intermedia), pero la verdad, me importa un pito.

No obstante, tengo que decir que está cambiando y se oye más y más "je" (pero casi no "jou") en Flandes también (pero a mí, me suena afectado en mi idiolecto; pero sí, lo sé, ya soy viejo yo)

Geen paniek medeforumgangers: ik ken Istriano van het forum Spaans.


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## Frank06

Hi,

One other possibility: bedankt!

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Joannes

Peterdg said:


> En teoría, iKevin lleva razón y así es en Holanda. En Flandes, sin embargo, casi sólo oirás "Dank U", formalmente o informalmente.


Eso, de hecho en sentido restricto tenías más razón que iKevin: aunque *je* sea la forma informal en la lengua estandard, ya que es estandard, se considera un poco más formal que *u* (cuando funciona como la forma objectiva de *gij*).

En muchos dialectos flamencos --entonces de manera informal-- también se dice mucho *merci*.


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## Istriano

Thank you, I think _jij _is like _tú _in Argentina or Costa Rica, which is a bit tricky.

1. In theory, _jij _should be used in the standard language
2. But, in reality, all languages tend to use formal forms in the standard language,
    informally we can use forms which we like no matter how nonstandard they might be

So, if Belgians use U for formal addressing, and gij for informal (between friends, in family), it is okay.  Otherwise there will be a situation like in ElSalvador where _tú _(jij)
is forced not only instead of informal _vos _(gij), but also as a substitute for the formal _Usted _(U). 

Linguistic survey has shown, that _gij _is still preferred in informal Belgian speech, except for
Western Flanders: http://www.cnts.ua.ac.be/papers/2005/ml05.pdf


Why did people in Western Flanders give up on _gij _and opted for _jij_?

I think it's because the difference between the dialect and the standard
is the greatest there, so they learned the standard language as if it were a foreign language (similar thing happened in the Northern Germany: local dialects in Hanover
and Hamburg are distant from _Hochdeutsch _so they accepted the standard forms much better than in the South here local dialects easily mix with _Hochdeutsch_).

I really don't know which variant Regi and Linda from Milk inc use in interviews, is it standard Belgian Dutch or a dialect?
All Flemish sound the same to me, but all of them sound pleasant.

PS
If _jij _continues spreading from West Flanders toward Limburg, we will have the situation similar to Colombian Spanish, where they use
forms of  tú (_jij_), vos (_gij_), Usted (_U_) just at random. 

I can understand how it feels when there are 3 forms, of example in Rio they use
_tu _(gij) [almost never written], _você _(jij) [the standard], and_ o senhor _(U).

In my dialect (Soteropolitano/Baiano)  _tu _(gij) is never used, we use _você _which would be something like _jij_,
but for the object form we use _te _(which is the object of _tu_, and not _você_) haha 

(and  _tu (gij) ~ tum (jij) ~ ap (U) _in Hindi is similar)


I guess, it's because our languages have too many pronouns 
In French they have only 2 you's and in English only 1. So they can't mix anything.


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## George French

Istriano said:


> I guess, it's because our languages have too many pronouns
> In French they have only 2 you's and in English only 1. So they can't mix anything.


 
*Thou* is still lurking arround.

"The word _*thou*_ (pronounced /ðaʊ/ in most dialects) is a second person singular pronoun in English. It is now largely archaic, having been replaced in almost all contexts by _you_. It is still used in parts of Northern England and Scots"

The Internet has many a "Thou art".

GF..


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## Joannes

Istriano said:


> Why did people in Western Flanders give up on _gij _and opted for _jij_?
> 
> I think it's because the difference between the dialect and the standard
> is the greatest there, so they learned the standard language as if it were a foreign language (similar thing happened in the Northern Germany: local dialects in Hanover
> and Hamburg are distant from _Hochdeutsch _so they accepted the standard forms much better than in the South here local dialects easily mix with _Hochdeutsch_).


Maybe. Also note that in West Flemish dialects *gij *is pronounced *ghi* (with the <gh> sounding rather like English h) and the atonic form is *je* and not *ge*; there is no *u(w)* but *joen* is used as the possessive and objective form. All that might have been of influence also, together with the standardization proces.


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## Dan2

iKevin said:


> 'Belgium'' isn't a language, it should be ''Dutch'', or ''Belgian Dutch''/''Flemish''.


But it _is_ a country.  I don't see anything wrong with "How do you say X in Belgium?", tho "in Dutch-speaking Belgium" would've been more specific (but it was clear from the text which language Istriano was talking about).


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## Peterdg

Istriano said:


> Linguistic survey has shown, that _gij _is still preferred in informal Belgian speech, except for
> Western Flanders: http://www.cnts.ua.ac.be/papers/2005/ml05.pdf


Thanks Istriano: this is a very interesting article.


> Why did people in Western Flanders give up on _gij _and opted for _jij_?
> 
> I think it's because the difference between the dialect and the standard
> is the greatest there, so they learned the standard language as if it were a foreign language


I don't think so. As the article already suggests, the "je" form might be endogenous in West Flanders (the "jou" form isn't very popular either) and that has probably nothing to do with the Netherlandic Dutch "je" but is rather due to the typical sound shifts in the West Flanders dialect (as also suggested by the article).


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## Istriano

Thanks for your help, I would like to know how to use plural forms,
when I listen to Milk inc shows they seem to address the crowd with
_jullie_, but they say _dank u _to them. _U _is also accusative/dative of _jullie_?

PS 
There is an interesting book: _Germanic Language Histories_ 'from _Below_' (1700-2000)
The authors have found that Flemish school kids to use_ jij/je _among themselves,
but only in negative contexts (distance, exclusion and showing superiority); while _gij/ge _is
used in positive contexts (friendship, acceptance, membership).


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## Joannes

Istriano said:


> Thanks for your help, I would like to know how to use plural forms,
> when I listen to Milk inc shows they seem to address the crowd with
> _jullie_, but they say _dank u _to them. _U _is also accusative/dative of _jullie_?


Although *jullie* is used quite often in Belgium (in _tussentaal_ as well), in most true dialects *gij*, *gulle*, *gijlie*, *gieder*, etc; are used. The objective forms can be *u*, *ulle*, *ulder*, *junder*,.. 

That said, even in Standard Dutch *dank jullie* doesn't really work. For some reason I don't know, *dank jullie wel* does work, but often people would just thank in a singular form.



Istriano said:


> PS
> There is an interesting book: _Germanic Language Histories_ 'from _Below_' (1700-2000)
> The authors have found that Flemish school kids to use_ jij/je _among themselves,
> but only in negative contexts (distance, exclusion and showing superiority); while _gij/ge _is
> used in positive contexts (friendship, acceptance, membership).


I happen to know that Reinhilde Vandekerckhove (the author in your previous link) has done research with chatspeak and came to a similar conclusion for the use of *jij* in Flanders. (Maybe this is in fact the study that underlies the statement..)

EDIT: I see you're interested, you might want to have a look at this thread on the origin of the Dutch 2nd person pronouns: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=963607


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## Aoyama

I guess, as Joannes righly said in #5, you can say "merci", "merci beaucoup", "merci à vous", "merci bien", "je vous remercie" ...


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## Peterdg

Aoyama said:


> I guess, as Joannes righly said in #5, you can say "merci", "merci beaucoup", "merci à vous", "merci bien", "je vous remercie" ...


Yes, but that would be in French, not in Dutch .


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## Aoyama

But who speaks about Dutch, the question is "thank you in Belgium".
And then, I'm sure you say merci and the rest in Dutch/Flemish, as well as we French say "thank you".


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## Peterdg

Aoyama said:


> But who speaks about Dutch, the question is "thank you in Belgium".
> And then, I'm sure you say merci and the rest in Dutch/Flemish, as well as we French say "thank you".


Because we are in the forum of *Dutch*. As Joannes said, we, Dutch speaking, do say "merci" every now and then (as often as the French speaking propulation would say "thank you"), but all the other options you mentioned exclusively belong to the French speaking community.


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## Aoyama

> Because we are in the forum of *Dutch*


Come to think of it, you are absolutely right. Let's say that "merci" can also belong to Dutch then ...


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## Istriano

I think I am going to use _Dank u _and _merci_.


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## NewtonCircus

Istriano said:


> I think I am going to use _Dank u _and _merci_.


I was reading through these older threads and this in kind of funny. Some Flemish literally say_ Dank u en merci_ when they leave a shop .

Cheers Herman.


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## LeRenardReynaerde

My all-time favourite Belgian 'thank you': _Mercikes!_


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