# da vendere



## Cricris

Hallo everybody.
A query, how would you translate "hanno ragione da vendere" into English?
Thank you for your suggestions.
Cris


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## You little ripper!

Hi Cris,

Welcome to the forum.  

I think you can translate that as, _They have (good) reason to sell,_ if I have understood the meaning correctly in Italian.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Can you say: "They are damn right"  ???



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Hi Cris,
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I think you can translate that as, _They have (good) reason to sell,_ if I have understood the meaning correctly in Italian.


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## combustion

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Can you say: "They are damn right" ???


 
I think that your expression is a bit too strong, don't you think so?
bye,comb...


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## DAH

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Can you say: "They are damn right" ???


Non penso che abbia ragione di dirla. É un po' forte per la quella frase. Direi "They have reason for selling."


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I have a suspect that our friends are not getting what we mean in Italian.

It's not like "Another perfectly valid *reason to sell* is when ...".

Here, "da vendere" means "*a lot*" .... (nothing to do with actual selling)


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## combustion

what about:
They have really reason!

bye, comb...


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## DAH

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> troppo De Niro, ... e non mi viene in mente niente (tra le 4 parole che conosco) che renda l'italiano. Tu che suggerisci?


Come va con le queste:
They have good cause to get out!
They are smart to bale out! The are right to bale out!


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## la reine victoria

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I have a suspect that our friends are not getting what we mean in Italian.
> 
> It's not like "Another perfectly valid *reason to sell* is when ...".
> 
> Here, "da vendere" means "*a lot*" ....


 

So is it 'They have a lot of reason'?

Thank you.

La Reine V


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## combustion

A literally translation may be:

"they have such reason so they can sell it!"

but in italian sounds good, in English not the same...
comb...


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## You little ripper!

combustion said:
			
		

> what about:
> They have really reason!
> 
> bye, comb...


It would be better to say,_ They really do have reason.._



> A literally translation may be:
> 
> "they have such reason so they can sell it!"
> 
> but in italian sounds good, in English not the same...
> comb...


Possibly, _They do have reason to sell it _or _a lot of reason to sell it_ as Her Majesty suggested.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Yes, Your Majesty!

... Don't you have also something more idiomatic?



Other similar expressions:

"Hanno veramente ragione"
"Hanno proprio ragione"
"Hanno davvero ragione"





			
				la reine victoria said:
			
		

> So is it 'They have a lot of reason'?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> La Reine V


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## combustion

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Possibly, _They do have reason to sell it._


 
I think it is perfect!!!!!!!
bye,comb...


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## la reine victoria

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Yes, Your Majesty!
> 
> ... Don't you have also something more idiomatic?
> 
> 
> 
> Other similar expressions:
> 
> "Hanno veramente ragione"
> "Hanno proprio ragione"
> "Hanno davvero ragione"


 
Yes Tommaso,

We say 'they have good reason' (having weighed up all the relevant facts and reached a conclusion).

'Dissatisfied, as they are, with their lifestyle in England, they have good reason to move to Italy.'  

La Reine V


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## la reine victoria

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> It would be better to say,_ They really do have reason.._
> 
> Possibly, _They do have reason to sell it _or _a lot of reason *to sell it*_ as Her Majesty suggested.


 
Sorry Charles,

I didn't mention selling since Tommaso said it had nothing to do with that. I took it to mean 'a lot of reason'.

LRV


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## ElaineG

What about "they have more than enough reason(s) to...."? (I take it that "da vendere" expresses a kind of excess of reason here - they are so right that they have excess reason left over to sell!).


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## moodywop

My Italian friends deserve a gentle kick up the backside for not making it clear that 1) "da vendere" is used figuratively to mean "in excess" here. There is no selling going on here  2) "aver ragione" means "be right" here.

Dictionaries translate "aver ragione da vendere" as "be dead right".

So kudos to Elaine and LRV for getting it right despite the lack of any context or clarification 

"Aver.....da vendere" and "averne da vendere" mean "have plenty of...". It's probably most often used with "ragione" but also with words like "coraggio", "esperienza" etc. The noun is often placed at the beginning for emphasis(_pace _Uinni ):

_Di coraggio ne ha da vendere = he's extremely brave_


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## You little ripper!

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Sorry Charles,
> 
> I didn't mention selling since Tommaso said it had nothing to do with that. I took it to mean 'a lot of reason'.
> 
> LRV


Her Majesty, it was just the _a lot of reason to _that I was attributing to you not the _to sell_ part. That just became part of the sentence because I misunderstood the idiom.



> My Italian friends deserve a gentle kick up the backside for not making it clear that 1) "da vendere" is used figuratively to mean "in excess" here. There is no selling going on here  2) "aver ragione" means "be right" here.


 
 Carlo, the reason I misunderstood it had nothing to do with the fact that it wasn't explained properly. Tommaso explained it perfectly. I just didn't read his post properly.


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## ElaineG

> "Aver.....da vendere" and "averne da vendere" mean "have plenty of...". It's probably most often used with "ragione" but also with words like "coraggio", "esperienza" etc. The noun is often placed at the beginning for emphasis(_pace _Uinni ):


 
In addition to "more than enough", I think "to spare" can fit the Italian idiom.  He's got courage to spare....


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I think this one is quite close, as to the underlying idea. 

Funny that they want to *spare* what (the exceeding part of reason!) we, instead, *sell !  *




			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> In addition to "more than enough", I think "to spare" can fit the Italian idiom. He's got courage to spare....


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## la reine victoria

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I think this one is quite close, as to the underlying idea.
> 
> Funny that they want to *spare* what we, instead, *sell !  *


 

But Moodywop has already said the phrase has nothing to do with selling, Tommaso.


La Reine V


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## You little ripper!

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> But Moodywop has already said the phrase has nothing to do with selling, Tommaso.
> 
> 
> La Reine V


Her Majesty,
I think Tommaso is joking here. He's not speaking literally, but figuratively.


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## la reine victoria

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Her Majesty,
> I think Tommaso is joking here. He's not speaking literally, but figuratively.


 

Thank you Charles.  

I don't think we should be joking here.  (23 posts and still no conclusive answer).


La Reine V


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## carrickp

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Thank you Charles.
> 
> I don't think we should be joking here.  (23 posts and still no conclusive answer).
> 
> 
> La Reine V



Well, what's going on here is we are trying to do a translation with inadequate context. The truth is that the phrase we are asked to translate could mean 23 (or more) different things. What we should have done is asked for more context in the first place. But fooling around with the different things languages can mean is so much _fun_ . . .


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## ElaineG

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> Thank you Charles.
> 
> I don't think we should be joking here. (23 posts and still no conclusive answer).
> 
> 
> La Reine V


 
Well, I don't think you ever get a _conclusive_ answer in translating.  But I think we now all understand the Italian idiom, and we've come up with several excellent English alternatives.

What Tommaso was pointing out was an interesting quirk of the idioms, when an Italian has a _very large amount _of courage, reason to do what he's doing, etc., they say he has so much he has some "da vendere" -- to _sell_.  The concept of _selling_ the "extra" of the quality in question doesn't come into the English idioms: "extremely brave", "he has more than enough courage", "he has reason to spare."  That's what Tommaso was pointing out-- one of the ways in which language may (or may not) reflect other aspects of the culture.


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## la reine victoria

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Well, I don't think you ever get a _conclusive_ answer in translating. But I think we now all understand the Italian idiom, and we've come up with several excellent English alternatives.
> 
> What Tommaso was pointing out was an interesting quirk of the idioms, when an Italian has a _very large amount _of courage, reason to do what he's doing, etc., they say he has so much he has some "da vendere" -- to _sell_. The concept of _selling_ the "extra" of the quality in question doesn't come into the English idioms: "extremely brave", "he has more than enough courage", "he has reason to spare." That's what Tommaso was pointing out-- one of the ways in which language may (or may not) reflect other aspects of the culture.


 
Thank you Carrick P and Elaine.

I understand what you are saying now.  Perhaps I'm 'troppa seria oggi'.  Is that correct Italian?


La Reine V


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## Alice_in_Wonderland

-To have plenty of...

To my ears, this expression suggested by moodywop conveys a sense of being well 'replenished with' something that might perhaps sound good, here. What do you think?

 Marta


PS [EDIT]:

I think that ‘avere qualche cosa da vendere’ is a common Italian slang expression.

-Hai pazienza da vendere!

From what I heard, it means that someone has so much of something (specifically a quality of character or a trait of personality, I think) that (s)he could even ‘sell’ (i.e.give away) some of it and still have enough of that quality!

-To have plenty of something?


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Actually "*hanno ragione da vendere*" does not lend itself to many interpretations, in Italian. Right now, I can see only a (or one? ) possible one.

Here it is crucial the preposition "*da*". It identifies uniquely the idiom:

-hanno ragione *da* vendere = They have got reason to spare (according to Elaine's suggestion) ...

-hanno ragione *a/di/per* vendere = They have reason to sell (or for selling? )...

examples:
-"In questo caso, Microsoft ha ragione *a* vendere carissimo un prodotto ..."
-"Nessuno nell’ambito dell’economia partecipativa ha ragione *di *vendere allo scopo cercare di conquistare mercati ..."
-"Anche se sei in ristrettezze non è può essere questa una ragione *per* vendere i beni di famiglia..."


Now try to translate these tricky sentences:  

Hai *ragione da vendere* a voler vendere tutte le vecchie cose , ma hai altrettanta *ragione da vendere* a non vendere quelle che rappresentano cari ricordi dell'infanzia.

Avresti *ragione da vendere* a vendere la tua società se andasse male, se non fosse per il fatto che avresti forse torto a vendere quella che ormai è la ragione stessa della tua vita.


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## You little ripper!

Alice_in_Wonderland said:
			
		

> I think that ‘avere qualche cosa da vendere’ is a common Italian slang expression.
> 
> -Hai pazienza da vendere!
> 
> From what I heard, it means that someone has so much of something (specifically a quality of character or a trait or personality, I think) that (s)he could even ‘sell’ (i.e.give away) some of it and still have enough of that quality!
> 
> -To have plenty of something?


That has made the expression perfectly clear for me.  How about _an overabundance of _or _more than enough?_


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## ElaineG

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> That has made the expression perfectly clear for me. How about _an overabundance of _or _more than enough?_


 
Obviously, I agree with you. (See my post #16  ).  

*tommaso, *le tue frase non presentano troppo difficoltà, ma come sempre, suggerirei che ci provi tu per primo


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I accept the challenge  . Please correct and make variants !



_Hai ragione da vendere a voler vendere tutte le vecchie cose , ma hai altrettanta ragione da vendere a non vendere quelle che rappresentano cari ricordi dell'infanzia._

You have reason to spare to be willing to sell all the old things, but you are also right not to sell the things which represent dear memories of your childhood.

_Avresti ragione da vendere a vendere la tua società se andasse male, se non fosse per il fatto che avresti forse torto a vendere quella che ormai è la ragione stessa della tua vita._

You would have reason to spare to sell your company, whenever it wouldn't do well, if it weren't that you would do wrong selling what has now become the only reason of your life.







			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Obviously, I agree with you. (See my post #16  ).
> 
> *tommaso, *le tue frase non presentano troppo diffocoltà, ma come sempre, suggerirei che ci provi tu per prima


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## ElaineG

> _Hai ragione da vendere a voler vendere tutte le vecchie cose , ma hai altrettanta ragione da vendere a non vendere quelle che rappresentano cari ricordi dell'infanzia.
> 
> _You have more than enough reasons to want to sell all [your? those?] old things, but you are also right not to sell the things which represent dear memories of your childhood.
> 
> _Avresti ragione da vendere a vendere la tua società se andasse male, se non fosse per il fatto che avresti forse torto a vendere quella che ormai è la ragione stessa della tua vita._
> 
> You would have more than enough reasons to sell your company, if it went badly, if it weren't that you would perhaps be wrong to sell what has now become your reason for living.


 
In these sentences, I think you have to use "more than enough reasons" rather that "reason to spare"--just the way it sounds works better for me.

Comunque, bravo.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I suspected that, but wanted to try with the one you suggested, which somehow seems closer to the Italian idiom, infact "more than enough reasons" is the natural translation of "*avere ragioni più che a sufficienza*" ... 

eg.

"Ci sono ragioni più che sufficienti per licenziarla ..."



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> In these sentences, I think you have to use "more than enough reasons" rather that "reason to spare"--just the way it sounds works better for me.
> ...quote]


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## ElaineG

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I suspected that, but wanted to try with the one you suggested, which somehow seems closer to the Italian idiom, infact "more than enough reasons" is the natural translation of "*avere ragioni più che a sufficienza*" ...
> 
> eg.
> 
> "Ci sono ragioni più che sufficienti per licenziarla ..."


 
I agree that "x to spare" is the closest to "x da vendere" but it works much better with courage than with reason.

Here's a question for you: "la ragione stessa della tua vita" -- as you see, I translated it as "your reason for living", would "your sole reason for living" be too strong for the Italian original or not?  Non potevo decidere.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

I translated "_quella che ormai è la ragione stessa della tua vita_."
with "what has now become the only reason of your life."

Actually this is not accurate. It should be:
"what has now become the reason itself of your life." (is English ok  )

The sentence:

*"your sole reason for living"*

would not be too strong, in my opinion, as "being the reason itself" is probably even stronger than that. What do you think?








			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> I agree that "x to spare" is the closest to "x da vendere" but it works much better with courage than with reason.
> 
> Here's a question for you: "la ragione stessa della tua vita" -- as you see, I translated it as "your reason for living", would "your sole reason for living" be too strong for the Italian original or not? Non potevo decidere.


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## ElaineG

> what has now become the reason itself of your life."


 
Funnily enough, that sounds very awkward in English, although you could use the French phrase "raison d'etre" (but risk sounding a bit twee  ).

That's why I changed it to the more idiomatic "reason for living", which, secondo te, should be "sole reason for living."


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## carrickp

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> I accept the challenge  . Please correct and make variants !
> 
> You have reason to spare to be willing to sell all the old things, but you are also right not to sell the things which represent dear memories of your childhood.
> 
> _Avresti ragione da vendere a vendere la tua società se andasse male, se non fosse per il fatto che avresti forse torto a vendere quella che ormai è la ragione stessa della tua vita._
> 
> You would have reason to spare to sell your company, whenever it wouldn't do well, if it weren't that you would do wrong selling what has now become the only reason of your life.


My attempt:
"You have plenty of reasons to sell all those old things; but you're also right not to get rid of the things that represent cherished childhood memories."

"If you company's not doing well, that's a great reason to sell it -- if it weren't for the fact that it would be a mistake to sell the thing that is your main reason for living."


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## Cricris

Mamma mia!! 
This was my first post and I'm very impressed by the number of replies within 24 hours!
What could I add?! Thanks to all of you for your challenging and helpful suggestions. However, don't go round kicking anybody's butts and don't be "troppo seri." Playing with words is good fun, we love it, otherwise we wouldn't be here reading and writing and enjoying words!


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