# Relative Pronoun Genitive Feminine in Koine Greek (ἧς)



## dudujr

Hi there! I would like to know if in _koine_ greek the relative pronoun genitive feminine ἧς ALWAYS refers to a feminine subject. For instance:

᾿Ιακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν ᾿Ιωσὴφ τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας, ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη ᾿Ιησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός.
 (Mat. 1:16)

In this reading ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη ᾿Ιησοῦς the main verb εγεννήθη is passive and ᾿Ιησοῦς being the subject of it. The preposition εξ denotes "origin", something like "out of". I heard some christians apologists claiming that ἧς refers to Mary in this sentence because it is a relative feminine pronoun. Nevertheless, I consider it to be very doubtful. Since the beginning of the chapter 1 of Matthew all men are described to beget someone, so it would make more sense to me if the verse 16 would follow the ideology and attribute the "begetness" of Jesus to Joseph and not Mary.

I don't want to get into Theology here, of course, but before someone mentions it, men are normally described begetting sons and daughters because male were considered the head, the chief in the family in biblical times.

I deem τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας to be a later interpolation where the original reading would be ᾿Ιακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν ᾿*Ιωση**̀**φ* [...] *ε**̓**ξ* *ἧ**ς* *ε**̓**γεννη**́**θη* ᾿Ιησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός because the genealogy serves to prove the Jesus is decedent of David through his father, Joseph.

So, if there is any native-greek-speaker who could help me out I’d be deeply thankful.

Thanks in advance!


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## Diadem

dudujr said:


> Hi there! I would like to know if in _koine_ greek the relative pronoun genitive feminine ἧς ALWAYS refers to a feminine subject. For instance:
> 
> ᾿Ιακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν ᾿Ιωσὴφ τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας, ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη ᾿Ιησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός.
> (Mat. 1:16)
> 
> In this reading ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη ᾿Ιησοῦς the main verb εγεννήθη is passive and ᾿Ιησοῦς being the subject of it. The preposition εξ denotes "origin", something like "out of". I heard some christians apologists claiming that ἧς refers to Mary in this sentence because it is a relative feminine pronoun. *Nevertheless, I consider it to be very doubtful*. Since the beginning of the chapter 1 of Matthew all men are described to beget someone, so it would make more sense to me if the verse 16 would follow the ideology and attribute the "begetness" of Jesus to Joseph and not Mary.



Considering the context, it doesn't appear doubtful. Matt. 1:18: πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν αὐτοὺς, εὑρέθη ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ Πνεύματος ἁγίου; Matt. 1:23: Ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἕξει, καὶ τέξεται υἱὸν. Clearly the woman is a virgin, already pregnant before consummating a marriage with Joseph to whom she is espoused, and without any implication of pre-marital sex. No other human (according to the account) could have parented the child but the woman. To insist that it is Joseph who parented Jesus, you must willfully ignore all those details the author provided.  



dudujr said:


> I don't want to get into Theology here, of course, but before someone mentions it, *men are normally described begetting* sons and daughters because male were considered the head, the chief in the family in biblical times.



English words are of no concern; we need only be concerned with what those saw who read it in Greek. The NT was written in Greek, and your question concerns Greek. The word translated as "was begotten" is ἐγεννήθη, a conjugation of the verb γεννάω. This Greek verb is used of men parenting children (cp. Matt. 1:2: Ἀβραὰμ *ἐγέννησεν* τὸν Ἰσαάκ) as well as women parenting children (Luke 1:57: Τῇ δὲ Ἐλισάβετ ἐπλήσθη ὁ χρόνος τοῦ τεκεῖν αὐτήν καὶ *ἐγέννησεν* υἱόν). You may certainly scrutinize English translations, but the context of both are humans parenting children. Therefore, there's no reason to believe the verb has a different meaning in each verse. Rather, a Greek reader would have only seen ἐγέννησεν and understood the same meaning in each. Parentage.



dudujr said:


> I deem τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας to be a later interpolation where the original reading would be ᾿Ιακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν ᾿*Ιωση**̀**φ* [...] *ε**̓**ξ* *ἧ**ς* *ε**̓**γεννη**́**θη* ᾿Ιησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός



It's ungrammatical. *ἧς* is feminine gendered and must agree in gender with its antecedent, whether grammatical gender or natural gender (if the author wishes to use a constructio ad sensum). However, there's nothing of the sort in that verse; Μαρίας is clearly the only female, grammatically and naturally.

Not a native Greek speaker, but modern Greek is different from Koine anyway. I know enough of Koine to answer, but you may take what you wish.


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## sotos

In Math.1.16 the  ἧς certainly refers to a woman. If it was man is should be ός.   Although the Lidell-Scott says that "γεννάω (-ώ)" _mostly _refers to men, 
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*g%3Aentry+group%3D11%3Aentry%3Dgenna%2Fw
it seems that in hellenistic and late antiquity Greek, the v. γεννώ was also referring to mothers, as it does in modern Greek. An example is given above (Luke 1.57) by user Diadem. 
Alternatively, you may interpret the ἐξ ἧς as the physical part of the "begetness":  "_she was begotten (to Joseph) *through* Mary ._..".


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## Apollodoros

Diadem said:


> Not a native Greek speaker, but modern Greek is different from Koine anyway. I know enough of Koine to answer, but you may take what you wish.



I think it's worth to mention that the author himself was probably not a native speaker of Koine either.


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## joeydim

Ιακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν ᾿Ιωσὴφ τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας, ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη ᾿Ιησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός

Matthew here shows us the birth of Jesus in human, only from  Mary, without the participation of Joseph,
 and he says : "Ματθ. 1,18 Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἡ γέννησις οὕτως ἦν. μνηστευθείσης γὰρ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ Μαρίας τῷ Ἰωσήφ, πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν αὐτοὺς εὑρέθη ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου." He uses the verb ἐγεννήθη to show the paradox way Jesus was born which was also mentioned in genesis 3,15* καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.*  In the book of Genesis the woman does not "γεννα"  she τίκτει
for example: Γεν. 4,1 καὶ συλλαβοῦσα ἔτεκε τὸν Κάϊν
Γεν. 22,23 Βαθουὴλ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὴν Ῥεβέκκαν. ὀκτὼ οὗτοι υἱοί, οὓς ἔτεκε Μελχὰ τῷ Ναχὼρ τῷ ἀδελφῷ Ἁβραάμ. So *ε**̓**γεννη**́**θη *is only used in the case of Mary.


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## Αγγελος

Grammatically, ἧς can ONLY refer to a woman (or, more generally, a feminine noun). There is absolutely no difficulty with the text as it stands. 
One may reasonably wonder why Joseph's genealogy and his descent from David should be of interest to the evangelist or to his intended readers if Joseph wasn't the father of Jesus, but the original text leaves no room for a different interpretation.


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## dudujr

Hi there!



> Considering the context, it doesn't appear doubtful. Matt. 1:18: πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν αὐτοὺς, εὑρέθη ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ Πνεύματος ἁγίου; Matt. 1:23: Ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἕξει, καὶ τέξεται υἱὸν. Clearly the woman is a virgin, already pregnant before consummating a marriage with Joseph to whom she is espoused, and without any implication of pre-marital sex. No other human (according to the account) could have parented the child but the woman. To insist that it is Joseph who parented Jesus, you must willfully ignore all those details the author provided.




The word παρθένος used *after* in the text is not connected to the genealogy, that's why I didn't take it as worth mentioning.




> It's ungrammatical. ἧς is feminine gendered and must agree in gender with its antecedent, whether grammatical gender or natural gender (if the author wishes to use a constructio ad sensum). However, there's nothing of the sort in that verse; Μαρίας is clearly the only female, grammatically and naturally.




I knew that about the greek grammar but I decided to ask it because ἧς is used in some verses related to masculine nouns in my native language, like "tempo" [time] which in Portuguese is not feminine and lots of other examples. But I also realized that in greek all these masculine nouns in port. are actually feminine in greek.


I'm writing a book about the virgin birth. I just wanted to add this to the amount of arguments, but it was the only one I wasn't sure about. There are thousands of reasons why I deem the virgin-birth a myth.


Joedym




> He uses the verb ἐγεννήθη to show the paradox way Jesus was born which was also mentioned in genesis 3,15 καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν. In the book of Genesis the woman does not "γεννα" she τίκτει
> for example: Γεν. 4,1 καὶ συλλαβοῦσα ἔτεκε τὸν Κάϊν
> Γεν. 22,23 Βαθουὴλ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὴν Ῥεβέκκαν. ὀκτὼ οὗτοι υἱοί, οὓς ἔτεκε Μελχὰ τῷ Ναχὼρ τῷ ἀδελφῷ Ἁβραάμ. So ἐγεννήθη is only used in the case of Mary.




Although I was aware that ἧς refers to Mary, there is something in this phraseology that makes me think otherwise. 


1. As you said, it is not the common word used "to give birth" as seen in LXX reading.
2. The passive verb εγεννήθη is used since the beginning of the matthean chapter to refer to men begetting only.
3. As SOTOS said, Lidell-Scott says that εγεννήθη is used MOSTLY of men.
4. As Anggelos said: "One may reasonably wonder why Joseph's genealogy and his descent from David should be of interest to the evangelist or to his intended readers if Joseph wasn't the father of Jesus." Verse 16 mentions Mary out of the blue, which sounds strange to me.
5. Syriac New Testament uses a different phraseology saying that Joseph "betgot Jesus".
6. Other mss. show interpolations in this 16th matthean verse with the word παρθένος connected to Mary, which suggests to me that this verse, particularly, was manipulated somehow.

It's not a matter of greek only. In Luke, what would a reader understand by this: ὁ υἱός ᾿Ιωσὴφ? Clearly, Lk. 4:22 is talking about Jesus. So, if greek is all that matters, Jesus was son of Joseph, case closed. But, of course, lots and lots of things must be taken into consideration, it is not that easy.

I'd like to thank all for the answers!


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## Αγγελος

dudujr said:


> ... like "tempo" [time] which in Portuguese is not feminine and lots of other examples. But I also realized that in greek all these masculine nouns in port. are actually feminine in greek.



Actually, the Greek word for time, χρόνος, is masculine. You are probably thinking of the word for day, ἡμέρα, which is indeed feminine.

It should also be mentioned that although γεννῶ meant "to beget, to father, to sire" in _classical _Greek, in _modern _Greek it means "to give birth to" and is normally used of women (τίκτω is obsolete). Not being a specialist, I don't know when the meaning began to shift, but it is not impossible that at least in popular parlance (Matthew, unlike Luke, is not a purist) ἐγεννήθη already meant "was born" in 60 A.D., as it does today. "Χριστός γεννᾶται" is a standard expression in church hymns. And the derived noun γέννησις has always meant 'birth', NOT 'conception' or anything in which the father wouldt be involved.



dudujr said:


> In Luke, what would a reader understand by this: ὁ υἱός ᾿Ιωσὴφ? Clearly, Lk. 4:22 is talking about Jesus.



Of course ὁ υἱός ᾿Ιωσὴφ means "Joseph's son"-- but in the context of Lk. 4:22 it is the people who are saying "How odd, isn't that lad Joseph's son?"-- which is, of course, what everybody thought, since Joseph had married Mary and raised Jesus as his own child.


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## Diadem

Αγγελος said:


> Actually, the Greek word for time, χρόνος, is masculine. You are probably thinking of the word for day, ἡμέρα, which is indeed feminine.
> 
> It should also be mentioned that although γεννῶ meant "to beget, to father, to sire" in _classical _Greek, in _modern _Greek it means "to give birth to" and is normally used of women (τίκτω is obsolete). Not being a specialist, I don't know when the meaning began to shift, but it is not impossible that at least in popular parlance (Matthew, unlike Luke, is not a purist) ἐγεννήθη already meant "was born" in 60 A.D., as it does today. "Χριστός γεννᾶται" is a standard expression in church hymns. And the derived noun γέννησις has always meant 'birth', NOT 'conception' or anything in which the father wouldt be involved.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course ὁ υἱός ᾿Ιωσὴφ means "Joseph's son"-- but in the context of Lk. 4:22 it is the people who are saying "How odd, isn't that lad Joseph's son?"-- which is, of course, what everybody thought, since Joseph had married Mary and raised Jesus as his own child.



To add, if Jesus was adopted by Joseph (which is the orthodox view of the Church), there's no difficulty in him being called Joseph's son --- not in Greek, Roman, or Jewish culture.


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