# Vocabulary question



## shiaben

In Eastern Turkey, I was wondering, for any of you Turks that have talked to Turks all over Turkey, especially the East. I was wondering is the word "cenk" still used in Turkey in a few cities???

Cenk is the Ottoman Turkish equivalent for "jang" (war.) Or does cenk mean something else in Turkish??

Also is savaş, suppose to mean battle, and muharebe suppose to mean war??

Also is the word "cuda" Turkish equivalent for "joda" still used?? instead of Ayrı??

Also I was wondering, is "c" (pronounced as "j") the most common starting letter in Turkish?? I notice the majority of the Persian, Arab loan words into Turkish, involve the letter "c" with its j pronunciation.


----------



## shiningstar

shiaben said:


> In Eastern Turkey, I was wondering, for any of you Turks that have talked to Turks all over Turkey, especially the East. I was wondering is the word "cenk" still used in Turkey in a few cities???
> 
> Cenk is the Ottoman Turkish equivalent for "jang" (war.) Or does cenk mean something else in Turkish??
> 
> Also is savaş, suppose to mean battle, and muharebe suppose to mean war??
> 
> Also is the word "cuda" Turkish equivalent for "joda" still used?? instead of Ayrı??
> 
> Also I was wondering, is "c" (pronounced as "j") the most common starting letter in Turkish?? I notice the majority of the Persian, Arab loan words into Turkish, involve the letter "c" with its j pronunciation.


 

I didn't quite understand your first sentence. As for Cenk, it's not commonly used these days except for private names and yes it does mean savaş. 

First of all, what exactly is "joda"? If you meant "cüda" by saying cuda then it refers to a homesick person or an expatriate. 

Turkish does have loan words from Persian and Arabic but I don't see any relevancy with "c". Actually the situation is quite opposite than you think and "c" is one of least common starting letters. 

Muharebe is more like combat and savaş does mean the either one, war or battle.


----------



## Sebnem

We are not using "cenk" that means "war" frequently. Except that it's common male name. But 99.9 percent of Turkish people know what does it mean. In daily Turkish we often use idioms or figurative speech. This word is such kind a word that's living in figurative speech. For example if we see somebody in hurry running to the her/his boss  we may say "cenge mi gidiyorsun?" "are you going to war?"

Savaş is totally identical with muharebe two of them means war in daily usage. But you are right there is a differance, just opposite way of your writing. Savaş means war, muharebe means battle. And there is another differance  I using savaş, my grandfather using muharebe. I guess muharebe is arabic, till 50's it's possible that everbody used muharebe. Nowadays we all forgot the Ottoman language which is loaned so many words from Arab and Persian. We always say savaş even the time we talk about battle. So little amount of people know the differance. 

About your eastern Turkey question, maybe you know most of the people who lives eastern has another native language, Kurdish. This language share it's roots with Persian. I think they can use cenk frequently than western people but it's not because of Turkish they are talking their language. 

We don't use cuda. I don't know the meaning of cuda nor juda

I don't think that most common starting letter is "c". I'll check it.


----------



## shafaq

As you may realized, "cüda" is totally forgotten. As you indicated, it means "ayrı" but completely forgotten in today's both written and spoken Turkish. Yes! As it can be seen, we modern Turks are in a deep ignorance which covers our  National Anthem too.


----------



## shiaben

Cevaplarınız için Tesekkür ederiz.

Ok I understand what you mean by Kurds using Iranic words more in the East, that could be a possibility.

I apologize to you guys for mentioning cüda. That was a grave mistake. I realized that word is in Azerbaijani Turkish (Safavid times) and Farsi, not in Turkish nor in Ottoman Turkish. For some reason I thought it would be in old or Ottoman Turkish, but I made a mistake.

I like the whole idiom speech, I forgot all about that. Thanks for informing me about that.


----------



## shiaben

No you guys are not in deep ignorance. Ataturk, a few Crimean Tatars, and some other Turkish organizations, changed the standards, so don't call yourselves ignorant, it is not your fault. They want less Arabic and Farsi, and more older Turkic words. To purify the Turkish language. However, I think Turkish languages with a balance of Farsi, Arabic, Latin, and a smaller amount of Greek, make it very beautiful and add value to the language. Especially poetry or songs.


----------



## shafaq

shiaben said:


> I apologize to you guys for mentioning cüda. That was a grave mistake. I realized that word is in Azerbaijani Turkish (Safavid times) and Farsi, not in Turkish nor in Ottoman Turkish. For some reason I thought it would be in old or Ottoman Turkish, but I made a mistake.


Cüda already used in Ottoman Turkish. In Turkish National Anthem said:
"Canı, cananı, bütün varımı alsın da hüda, 
Etmesin tek vatanımdan beni dünyada *cüda*."


----------



## shafaq

shiaben said:


> No you guys are not in deep ignorance. Ataturk, a few Crimean Tatars, and some other Turkish organizations, changed the standards, so don't call yourselves ignorant, it is not your fault. They want less Arabic and Farsi, and more older Turkic words. To purify the Turkish language. However, I think Turkish languages with a balance of Farsi, Arabic, Latin, and a smaller amount of Greek, make it very beautiful and add value to the language. Especially poetry or songs.


"To purify languages" evokes in my mind the efforts "to purify races" done by someones in the past. Imagine an English purified from Latin, Greek, Persian, German, Arabic and many other foreigner words .... What a silly! Like an apple candy consisted of just a stick barely.... In addition on all, cultural gap created by this "purifying" is a big disaster.


----------



## shiningstar

shafaq said:


> As you may realized, "cüda" is totally forgotten. As you indicated, it means "ayrı" but completely forgotten in today's both written and spoken Turkish. Yes! As it can be seen, we modern Turks are in a deep ignorance which covers our National Anthem too.


 
I don't think our nation is ignorant. The young ones, say their ages between 20 and 30 might not remember or even know that but for some thirty-thirty five years ago the term "cüda" had been taught as "angel Gabriel" and no it's not a joke nor was the teacher's fault. It was written on the textbook and if my memory is right, it was "cûda" not "cüda". I'm almost confident about it. 

Let's be careful before accusing the people about being ignorant.


----------



## shafaq

shiningstar said:


> I don't think our nation is ignorant. The young ones, say their ages between 20 and 30 might not remember or even know that but for some thirty-thirty five years ago the term "cüda" had been taught as "angel Gabriel" and no it's not a joke nor was the teacher's fault. It was written on the textbook and if my memory is right, it was "cûda" not "cüda". I'm almost confident about it.
> 
> Let's be careful before accusing the people about being ignorant.




*Cüda*:Yurt, baba ocağı gibi çok sevilen şeylerden ayrılmış olan, uzak kalmış olan.


----------



## shiningstar

Cüda'nın tanımı post 2'de verilmişti (İngilizce olarak). Ben sözleriniz üzerine İstiklâl Marşımızda yazan Hüda ile Cüda'nın ilki Allah S.A.V. ikincisi Cebrail A.S. olmak üzere öğretildiğini ve o sıralar Cüda değil Cûda olarak geçtiğini ileri sürdüm. Şaşılacak bir şey yok.


----------



## shafaq

Durum şimdi aydınlandı. Benim şaşkınlığımı da mazur görün, çünki Cebrail A.S. ın bahsettiğiniz her iki kelimeden biri ile bilinir olduğu bilgisi tamamen bir yanlış anlaşılmadan kaynaklanmış olmalı. Hiç duyulmamış birşey naklettiğiniz için gerçekten şaşırmıştım.
  Ayrıca, "ignorance"tan hemen kendinize de bir pay çıkarma gayretinize de şaşırdım doğrusu ... Halbuki ben size buradan bir pay öngörmemiştim bunu yazarken. Hem; her kaidenin pek çok istisnası vardır. Sizin payınızı da bu istisnaların arasına katmıştım kendiminki ile beraber... Siz hakkınız olmayan paya el atmışsınız.


----------

