# All Slavic languages: Оклематься



## Maroseika

Russian *оклематься *means *to recover from illness.*
I failed to find any etymology of this word, and moreover, in Russian there is absolutely no any other word with this or even similar root.
I wonder, whether there is anything like this word in other Slavic languages.


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## Jana337

We say uzdravit se (you have something similar, right?). Оклематься doesn't remind me of anything at all. Could it be a new word? I can't find it in my (very detailed) Russian-Czech dictionary, and Google shows that people sometimes wrap it in quotation marks.

Jana


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## cyanista

On the contrary, it's a rather old word featured in V. Dal's "Толковый словарь живого великорусского языка". It's not very often used nowadays.

Sorry, Maroseika, I have no insights to offer. I don't know of a Belarusian word with a similar root (apart from клямка - щеколда) and the only thing I have found on the Net is that someone assumes a connection to "клюка", "клянчить" and "кляча", which doesn't sound very convincing to me.


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> We say uzdravit se (you have something similar, right?). Оклематься doesn't remind me of anything at all. Could it be a new word? I can't find it in my (very detailed) Russian-Czech dictionary, and Google shows that people sometimes wrap it in quotation marks.
> 
> Jana


uzdravit se - выздороветь, this word is quite clear, deriving from здоровье (health).
Оклематься is not a new word, in contrary, it's even a bit obsolete, fixed in all Russian dictionaries beginning with at least Vladimir Dahl. 
Though it sounds as colloquial, but still absolutely literary.

Usually a word with such "lonely" roots are loaned, but here I have absolutely no idea from what language it could be loaned, and which way. German words mostly come to Russian thru Polish, that's why I hoped to find anything like that there.
Other ideas - Latin root *calere - *to be hot, it's more or less close semantically to our word (to be hot > to get warm > to recover from flu > to recover from illness), but again - such an ancient root could not leave no trace in Russian and Slavic languages.
Turkish? Maybe.
Anyway, let's wait for the other Slavic natives ideas.


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## Maroseika

cyanista said:


> I don't know of a Belarusian word with a similar root (apart from клямка - щеколда) and the only thing I have found on the Net is that someone assumes a connection to "клюка", "клянчить" and "кляча", which doesn't sound very convincing to me.


Well, I also know some rather odd versions, like the following for example:
Оклематься = to get rid of the stigma (клеймо), meaning that an ill person is "marked with a stigma of ill".

But like you said such versions do not sound too much convincing, and, most important, are unprovable.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

In *Slovene*

we have to verbs:
*ozdravéti* = to recover from illness; to be restored to health
*okrévati* = to recover; to be oneself again; to be restored to health

The SSKJ dictionary explains the verb *okrevati* also like: to improve one's health; to gain strength after a serious illness

This dictionary knows three more words sharing the same root:
*okrevalíšče *= sanatorium
*okrévanec *= convalescent
*okrévanje *= convalescence; recovery


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## Maroseika

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> In *Slovene*
> 
> we have to verbs:
> *ozdravéti* = to recover from illness; to be restored to health
> *okrévati* = to recover; to be oneself again; to be restored to health
> 
> The SSKJ dictionary explains the verb *okrevati* also like: to improve one's health; to gain strength after a serious illness
> 
> This dictionary knows three more words sharing the same root:
> *okrevalíšče *= sanatorium
> *okrévanec *= convalescent
> *okrévanje *= convalescence; recovery


This is VERY inetersting information!
I feel we are somewhere near the clue.
What's about the root *krev*? Has it anything to do with blood? Or is connected with some othe rwords in Slovenian?
What's about other Slavic words: are there such constructions with the same root and sense?


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

I cannot explain the root as I have my dictionary at home.

But yes, there are words starting with _krev_:
http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=ge=krev*&hs=1
These words are related to a person who walks slowely, with a difficulty.


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## Maroseika

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> I cannot explain the root as I have my dictionary at home.
> 
> But yes, there are words starting with _krev_:
> http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=ge%3Dkrev*&hs=1
> These words are related to a person who walks slowely, with a difficulty.


Well, looks the root refers to кривой - crooked.
In this case *okrévati* means something like Russian выпрямиться - erect onself, become straight.
This is similar to Russian выпрямиться > выправиться > поправиться = выздороветь.
However in Russian кривой means only one-eyed (if we touch illnesses only).
To explain оклематься we should assume:
1. Phonetical transfer кр- > кл- (in fact we know only Polish krz- and Low-Luzhich ks-)
2. Transfer -в- > -м- (though *в *is the ancient Slavic suffix)
Too strong assumes...


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## cajzl

The Czech cognates of *okrevati*

okřáti = ожить, поправиться, воскреснуть, посвежеть
okřívati
pookřáti
pookřívati

As you can see the *-va-* is not a part of the root. It is merely the suffix of the repetitive (or frequentative?) verbs.


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## cyanista

> Originally Posted by *Tolovaj_Mataj*
> 
> *okrévati* = to recover; to be oneself again; to be restored to health





			
				cajzl said:
			
		

> okřáti = ожить, поправиться, воскреснуть, посвежеть


Belarusian has акрыяць with the same meaning. The connection is obvious, isn't it?


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## Maroseika

cajzl said:


> The Czech cognates of *okrevati*
> 
> okřáti = ожить, поправиться, воскреснуть, посвежеть
> okřívati
> pookřáti
> pookřívati
> 
> As you can see the *-va-* is not a part of the root. It is merely the infix of the repetitive (or frequentative?) verbs.


Yes, I guess *-v-* is suffix. Same root in Latvian gives:
krèiss - left
krails - bent, crooked
kreĩlis - a lefthander
kraitat - to stagger
In Greek: 
κυρτóν - crooked
and finally Preindoeuropaeus root is _*(s)ker._


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## Maroseika

cyanista said:


> Belarusian has акрыяць with the same meaning. The connection is obvious, isn't it?


Yes, it is! And this is really bad news.
Now what we need is to explain *кр>кл* and appearance of *-м-* on such a short disctance as Belorussian - Russian, i.e. inside East-Slavic.
I'm afraid this process could not be possible, no matter how tempting the idea would seem...
However, if there is no such a word in Ukrainian, than in Belorussian it's from Polish. This would explain its absense in Russian, but phonetical problems still remain.


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## Thomas1

In Polish we would say _wyzdrowieć_. When I saw it in your first post I didn't even associate it with any Polish word. After reading further one word occurred to me but I'm afraid it may not bring in anything new to your research since it's just my association with Czech. I thought I'd share it with you anyway; it's:
_okrzepnąć_ - get stronger, become firmly established, harden

Tom


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## Kriviq

There is the word клюм(в)ам, оклюмвам се = to droop, to wither, to hang one`s head in Bulgarian, also кимам = to nod.


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## cajzl

Czech: klímati, klimbati = to nod, to nap


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## Maroseika

Thomas1 said:


> In Polish we would say _wyzdrowieć_. When I saw it in your first post I didn't even associate it with any Polish word. After reading further one word occurred to me but I'm afraid it may not bring in anything new to your research since it's just my association with Czech. I thought I'd share it with you anyway; it's:
> _okrzepnąć_ - get stronger, become firmly established, harden
> 
> Tom


In Russian it's окрепнуть from крепкий - strong. Well, I feel it's too far from our word...


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## Maroseika

Kriviq said:


> There is the word клюм(в)ам, оклюмвам се = to droop, to wither, to hang one`s head in Bulgarian, also кимам = to nod.


Very, very interesting.
However оклематься has an opposite meaning than оклюмвам се (выздороветь - поникнуть).
Is it that in Bulgarian клюмвам and оклюмвам are different scales of one the same?
And what does mean this root клюм? In what other words it presents?


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## Maroseika

cajzl said:


> Czech: klímati, klimbati = to nod, to nap


And what would mean *oklimati* (at least "formally")?


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## cajzl

We do not use *oklímati se**.*

But the relation *klímati *(non-refl.)* - oklímati se *(reflexive) would be similar like:

třepati (махать) - otřepati se (отряхнуться)
klepati (стучать) - oklepati se (?)

*otřepati se, oklepati se* means also оправиться, прийти в себя 

N.B. these verbs are reflexive like *Оклематься.*


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## Kriviq

Maroseika said:


> Very, very interesting.
> However оклематься has an opposite meaning than оклюмвам се (выздороветь - поникнуть).
> Is it that in Bulgarian клюмвам and оклюмвам are different scales of one the same?
> And what does mean this root клюм? In what other words it presents?



Apparently, it is not uncommon for words with adverse meanings to have the same root. Here`s an example:* никна = to grow, to shoot - заник = sunset*.

I can`t think of other words with the same root except for *калимявка = the hat of an orthodox priest*, but this is hardly relevant.


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## Maroseika

Kriviq said:


> I can`t think of other words with the same root except for *калимявка = the hat of an orthodox priest*, but this is hardly relevant.


Very bright example of the consonants interchange inside a syllable  in Slavics - in Russian it's *камилавка! *


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## Maroseika

cajzl said:


> klepati (стучать) - oklepati se (?)
> *otřepati se, oklepati se* means also оправиться, прийти в себя
> N.B. these verbs are reflexive like *Оклематься.*


Finally something very close! Оклематься and oklepati se are so similar at sight and mean quite the same, that I just cannot believe this is only occasional coincidence.
Now we need two things:
1. To check whether in any other Slavic languages there is anything like oklepati se = to recover
2. To check whether it's possible that Western-Slavic klep- might shift to Eastern klem-.
Does anybody know any examples of this (п > м)?

By the way, in Russian we also have клепать - стучать (заклёпка - rivet), and in German as well, but this word is the imitative word, therefore nothing wonderful.
And one more important question: how do you think could develop oklepati se - to recover from klepati-стучать? To recover after a knock?


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## cajzl

> Finally something very close! Оклематься and oklepati se are so similar at sight and mean quite the same, that I just cannot believe this is only occasional coincidence.


Too quick conclusion!

*klepati* is a cognate or maybe a loanword from German: *klopfen*



> And one more important question: how do you think could develop oklepati se - to recover from klepati-стучать? To recover after a knock?


*otřepati se/oklepati se* (in the sense: _to recover_) is colloquial and very figurative:

primary meaning: *oklepati se (jako pes)* - sich (wie ein Hund) schütteln

hence the figurative meaning:
Po ráně (pádu) vstal a rychle *se oklepal*. After a knock (a fall) he rose up and recovered quickly.


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## cajzl

Serbian/Croatian:

*klimati* - kývat - качать 
*klimati se* - kývat se - качаться

So we have:

Bulgarian: клюмам, оклюмвам се
Czech: klímati
Serbian/Croatian: klimati (se)

Russian: oклематься ???


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## Maroseika

cajzl said:


> Too quick conclusion!
> *klepati* is a cognate or maybe a loanword from German: *klopfen*
> 
> 
> 
> It's really cognate and not only to German, but this is common Indoeuropean root of more or less same sense, just for being onomatopoetic word.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> otřepati se/oklepati se (in the sense: to recover) is colloquial and very figurative:
> primary meaning: oklepati se (jako pes) - sich (wie ein Hund) schütteln
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still it's very similar to Russian semantically: we also have a word встряхнуться (jaco pes), figuratively meaning to cheer up (very close to оклематься).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> hence the figurative meaning:
> Po ráně (pádu) vstal a rychle *se oklepal*. After a knock (a fall) he rose up and recovered quickly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Побывав в нескольких нокдаунах в первых раундах, Рокки быстро оклемался и в шестом раунде послал соперника в нокаут.
> 
> Therefore I keep supposing this version very likely semantically, but phonetical problem still waits for resloving.
Click to expand...


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## morrilla

In Ukrainian it's "*оклигати*". 
Some examples:
"Заслабла Ганна ще взимку і дотепер не може *оклигати*."
"Потрібно на деякий час взагалі звільнити театри від оподаткування, щоб дати їм можливість *оклигати*."


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## Maroseika

morrilla said:


> In Ukrainian it's "*оклигати*".
> Some examples:
> "Заслабла Ганна ще взимку і дотепер не може *оклигати*."
> "Потрібно на деякий час взагалі звільнити театри від оподаткування, щоб дати їм можливість *оклигати*."


Could you please explain thу root of this word - оклигати? Is there reflexive form?


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## morrilla

Maroseika said:


> Could you please explain thу root of this word - оклигати? Is there reflexive form?


 
Thе word "клигати" can be trsanslated into Russian as "плестись" meaning "идти". Dictionary explanation tells "тяжело, медленно идти"."клигати на роботу..."I found some examples with reflexive form "оклигатися" in the i-net. But Ukrainian Explanatory Dactionary doesn't give this form. There are also words "оклигнути", "відклигати" also meaning "оклематься".


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## morrilla

Только что нашла  :

Оклематься (вылечиться, выздороветь)- החלמה/ахлама – "выздоровление".


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## Maroseika

morrilla said:


> Только что нашла  :
> 
> Оклематься (вылечиться, выздороветь)- החלמה/ахлама – "выздоровление".


The root is חלמ? Could you please explain this root - etymology, etc.?


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## morrilla

According to the book "Русь изначальная и ее тайны" russian "оклематься" was derived from hebrew word החלמה (ахлама) - "выздоровление". From some articles I found out that words "ахлама" and "халом"- "сон" have one root. We should ask someone who know hebrew for more information.
Also "ахлама" is "аметист".


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## Maroseika

morrilla said:


> According to the book "Русь изначальная и ее тайны" russian "оклематься" was derived from hebrew word החלמה (ахлама) - "выздоровление". From some articles I found out that words "ахлама" and "халом"- "сон" have one root. We should ask someone who know hebrew for more information.
> Also "ахлама" is "аметист".


If you mean the book of Bershadskiy, this is 100% quackery a la Vashkevich/Fomenko.
Such loaning from Hebrew is unhistorical.


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## morrilla

Ok,  i just found this information on the i-net and posted. I guesed that it's something fishy because the other examples were just unbelievable.


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## morrilla

I also found this information:

"Слово и вправду странноватое, в РЯ соответствий найти не удаётся.
В англ. и романских есть производные от лат. clemens мягкость, терпимость - В англ. ещё есть to clem - страдать, умирать от голода
Нем.- klemmen - зажимать

Встречалось и такое соображение: Скорее всего, это "оправиться, распрямиться, разогнуться" -- ср. "клюка", "клянчить" ("просить на коленях"), "кляча"; у Даля для "оклематься" дана параллельная псковская форма "оклечетать"; там же "КЛЯМИТЬСЯ -- твер. трудиться, маяться, работать; перебиваться" -- видимо, что-то вроде нынешних "горбатиться" или "корячиться" в смысле "работать"."


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## Maroseika

morrilla said:


> I also found this information:
> 
> "Слово и вправду странноватое, в РЯ соответствий найти не удаётся.
> В англ. и романских есть производные от лат. clemens мягкость, терпимость - В англ. ещё есть to clem - страдать, умирать от голода
> Нем.- klemmen - зажимать
> 
> 
> 
> You have found it at Kuzdra?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Встречалось и такое соображение: Скорее всего, это "оправиться, распрямиться, разогнуться" -- ср. "клюка", "клянчить" ("просить на коленях"), "кляча"; у Даля для "оклематься" дана параллельная псковская форма "оклечетать"; там же "КЛЯМИТЬСЯ -- твер. трудиться, маяться, работать; перебиваться" -- видимо, что-то вроде нынешних "горбатиться" или "корячиться" в смысле "работать"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> It's rather odd semantically: prefix *o* usually "strengthens and completes" the action of the root verb: балдеть - обалдеть, студить - остудить, etc.
> How then *оклематься < оклямиться*  might mean something contrary to *клямиться*?
> We'd have rather waited something like *расклематься* < *расклямиться*...
Click to expand...


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## morrilla

No, I found it on one linguistic forum. 

What do you think about ukrainian "оклигати". Is there any connection with russian "оклематься"?


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## Maroseika

morrilla said:


> No, I found it on one linguistic forum.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I mean, name of that forum - Куздра?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think about ukrainian "оклигати". Is there any connection with russian "оклематься"?.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far it doesn't look as a word closest to оклематься - neither phonetically, nor semanically.
> Оклепаться seems to me much btter.
Click to expand...


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## morrilla

I don't remember the name of the forum but it deffinitely was not Kuzdra.


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