# Dative Pronoun/Noun + Preposition



## Kos

Cześć Wszystkim 

I have a question about the use of the dative case accompanying prepositions in constructions like: verb+indirect pronoun/noun+preposition.
Maybe this model is a bit confusing, so I'll show what I'm talking about with some examples I've found:

Kot usiadł mi na kolanach.
Ona patrzyła mu w oczy.
Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów.

My question is, what is the significance between using the dative case then a prepostion, instead of just a preposition? For example:

"Kot usiadł mi na kolanach." vs. "Kot usiadł na moich kolanach." 
"Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów." vs. "Łzy napłynęły do jej/jego oczów."

My guess is that the dative is making the sentence "more personal" (if that makes any sense ), as in showing that the action directly affected that person. Also, I know that in certain contructions like "Ona patrzyła mu w oczy", using the dative adds specificness - "looking at _something on someone_ etc."

I'm sorry if this post seems confusing. I hope all my writing won't bore you guys. 
I always have faith that you can help me.
Z góry dziękuję
-Kos


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## BezierCurve

> My guess is that the dative is making the sentence "more personal" (if that makes any sense ), as in showing that the action directly affected that person.


 
You've clearly got the hang of it, Kos


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## Thomas1

Kos said:


> Cześć Wszystkim
> 
> I have a question about the use of the dative case accompanying prepositions in constructions like: verb+indirect pronoun/noun+preposition.
> Maybe this model is a bit confusing, so I'll show what I'm talking about with some examples I've found:
> 
> Kot usiadł mi na kolanach.
> Ona patrzyła mu w oczy.
> Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów.
> 
> My question is, what is the significance between using the dative case then a prepostion, instead of just a preposition? For example:
> 
> "Kot usiadł mi na kolanach." vs. "Kot usiadł na moich kolanach."
> "Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów." vs. "Łzy napłynęły do jej/jego oczów."
> The first sentence in each pair sounds better to my ears. The second sentence, though grammatically OK, sounds less natural. We don't normally use possessive adjectives with parts of the body in the same way they are used in English (cf. The cat sat on my lap. Tears came up in her/his eyes. vs. The cat sat to him on the lap. Tears came up in the eyes to her/him.)
> It could be fine if you were comparing: Kot usiadł na moich kolanach a nie na jego.
> I think that the second sentence needs some context to work seamlessly, i.e. so that no one should stop at it while reading in order to find a situation in which it is fine. So, for instance in a comparison you won't bat an eye at it. This may be a personal observation.
> 
> My guess is that the dative is making the sentence "more personal" (if that makes any sense ), as in showing that the action directly affected that person. Also, I know that in certain contructions like "Ona patrzyła mu w oczy", using the dative adds specificness - "looking at _something on someone_ etc."
> 
> I'm sorry if this post seems confusing. I hope all my writing won't bore you guys.
> I always have faith that you can help me.
> Z góry dziękuję
> -Kos


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## Ben Jamin

Kos said:


> Cześć Wszystkim
> 
> I have a question about the use of the dative case accompanying prepositions in constructions like: verb+indirect pronoun/noun+preposition.
> Maybe this model is a bit confusing, so I'll show what I'm talking about with some examples I've found:
> 
> Kot usiadł mi na kolanach.
> Ona patrzyła mu w oczy.
> Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów.
> 
> My question is, what is the significance between using the dative case then a prepostion, instead of just a preposition? For example:
> 
> "Kot usiadł mi na kolanach." vs. "Kot usiadł na moich kolanach."
> "Łzy napłynęły jej/mu do oczów." vs. "Łzy napłynęły do jej/jego oczów."


 First, a little correction: "oczów" is not a grammatical error, but 99% of people would say "do oczu". "Oczu" is an old form of dualis, used when speaking about somebody's eyes, but "oczów" was paradoxically more often used in old times.
And then, your question: Both types of sentences are perfectly grammaticallt correct, and they have the same meaning, but we just do not usually say so. It's a kind of stylistically or phraseologically preferred form. The alternative form (... na moich kolanach...) sounds however a bit more formal. I think I can guess why you ask that question. The dative form is one of Polish peculiarities, not often found in other languages, at least not in Slavic languages. Compare such also such  expressions as: "dziecko mi choruje", "ojciec mi umarł". 
"Łzy napłynęły do jej/jego oczów." is a rather unlikely to be used.


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## Kos

Thank you all very much!  I'm glad you were all able to clear this up for me.


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## Sobakus

Ben Jamin said:


> The dative form is one of Polish peculiarities, not often found in other languages, at least not in Slavic languages.



It surely isn't, it's the natural way of saying of at least the first two examples in Russian(and the other two East Slavic languages, I would guess), although if used in the third one it would probably suggest that the tears came to him and filled his eyes with something


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## Ben Jamin

Sobakus said:


> It surely isn't, it's the natural way of saying of at least the first two examples in Russian(and the other two East Slavic languages, I would guess), although if used in the third one it would probably suggest that the tears came to him and filled his eyes with something


 I just mean the same as you. It was a slip of tongue (keyboard), I meant: 

"... not often found in other languages, except Slavic languages".
I am aware that this dative construction occurs in many Slavic languages, though I havn`t got  not a full picture in which ones.


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## Orlin

Ben Jamin said:


> I just mean the same as you. It was a slip of tongue (keyboard), I meant:
> 
> "... not often found in other languages, except Slavic languages".
> I am aware that this dative construction occurs in many Slavic languages, though I havn`t got not a full picture in which ones.


 
For the use of possessive dative in Slavic languages, see this thread:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1734440


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