# Discussing wages



## blancalaw

Many people feel uncomfortable about talking about how much they get paid at their job.  Why is this?  Does this vary from country to country?


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## nichec

blancalaw said:
			
		

> Many people feel uncomfortable about talking about how much they get paid at their job. Why is this? Does this vary from country to country?


 
Hi, blancalaw:
I don't know how many questions I've answered you already  (don't worry, it's my pleasure)

I voted for family and significant others and close friends. It's not that I don't feel comfortable talking about my wage, it's because I'm the kind of person who values my privacy (and that of others too) a lot. So I don't usually tell people I don't know very well too much about myself, this can range from my opinion of someone to my wage...

I do think this vary from country to country. In my hometown, Taiwan, people don't really care much about telling/asking others this kind of stuff, but from what I know it's an impossible subject in Europe and USA.


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## blancalaw

Thank you for spending your time answering my posts.  I think about the oddest things during the day.

I selected my friends, family, and spouse.  Many people here do not share their wages for some strange reason, but to me it used to not bother me telling anyone when I made only 5 dollars an hour, but now that I make more, I usually keep that private.  It is kind of like telling someone the color of your underwear.

I definitely would not give that type of information on a public forum like this.  Who knows who reads these posts.


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## kevinleihuang

I selected Close friends, Spouse (though I am single now), and Family. I was often told that people in western countries are not likely to tell the others about their wage and that it is impolite to ask others about their income. I can understand this, because the wage thing is quite private. 

But in China, people feel free to talk about their income. They usually compare the level of their income with that of others. So they will be aware of the competency of their income level based on their job title and rank.


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## Zakalwe

I choose 'Anyone' because i really don't care about saying it to other people, surely because i have a very low salary for someone with a master in computer science (lower than the minimum salary in France) when my friends in France gain three times what i have.
So i tell everyone i know to protest.

But generally in France and in Spain, it is a taboo subject between collegues, and we never speak about it. On contrary, we used to say it between friends to compare it.


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## mnzrob

I chose spouse and family, and close friends. I would only tell VERY close friends though. In the US it's considered impolite to talk about it, but people talk about it more than they do here in Germany. In Germany, it seems that people judge you based on your salary, which is why I would never tell anyone that wasn't a close friend or family. It's ok if you make less than another person, but if you make more, they will get jealous, and sometimes make fun of you or even begin to dislike you. It's quite pathetic. It is also specifically expressed in my work contract, that I may NOT discuss my salary with colleagues. Besides that, it's really none of anyone's business.

Rob


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## GenJen54

blancalaw said:
			
		

> I selected my friends, family, and spouse. Many people here do not share their wages for some strange reason,



I selected Spouse/Significant Other.  I don't even know if my parents know what I make.  

In the US, generally-speaking, it is considered inpolite and inappropriate to discuss one's salary with another person.  It is considered downright rude to ask someone else what kind of money they make, or even how much something costs. 

Perhaps this is generational. Perhaps this is a matter of personal preference.  I've always been taught it is a social no-no. 

I was brought up with the understanding that one should never:

1. talk about one's own wages/income (except to family member, banker or tax atorney - anyone for whom such information is pertinent);
2. ask about another's wages/income;
3. ask another person how much something "cost" (their shoes, handbag, jewelry, etc.)

These general "rules" do not apply to discussion of car or house purchases, however.  

With cars, people always want to "brag" about how they thought they were able to "dupe" the car salesman, so like to talk about how much they thought they got a bargain (not!)  

Discussing housing prices is similar.  People are always very keen to watch the real estate market.  As such, talking about housing prices is a way of following that.  This knowledge is also available publicly through any county assessor's website, and records of home sales are also published in the local newspaper (land deed information), so it's not as big of a deal.   If you were to ask someone what their monthly mortgage was, however, that would be a bit different. 

Overall, it's just a matter of personal taste whether revealing this information is appropriate.


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## Chaska Ñawi

My husband has freqently observed that in his work environment (information technology), people will willingly tell you more than you ever wanted to know about their sex lives, psychotherapy, marriage counseling .... money is the only taboo subject.  He's actually far more comfortable talking about income than his co-workers' sex lives.  I fit into this category too, except that in my work environment we don't talk about any of these things.


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## Hakro

I can talk freely about my income to nearly anybody, but I can also lie.


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## anamadrid

I would probably said here, that nobody knows me, but I wouldn't talk about it with my friends, I dont feel confortable with this. I wouldn't mind to talk about it with my family, of course. 
It specially bothers me when somebody who is not very close to me, ask me about it. I thing that is private, to people who lives around.


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## tigger_uhuhu

A veces puede ser presuntuoso alardear de la cantidad que ganas, por eso es que mucha gente no habla de ello. 
En lo personal prefiero no comentarlo, no por no ser presuntuoso, sino porque me parece que es algo muy personal.
Así que cuando me preguntan ¿cuánto ganas? contesto "menos de lo que me gustaría" 
Saludos


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## blancalaw

> Así que cuando me preguntan ¿cuánto ganas? contesto "menos de lo que me gustaría"



Es cierto, creo que todo el mundo siempre te diría que no ganan lo que deben.


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## JazzByChas

In my opinion, my salary is no one's concern but my wife's...all others, including family need not know..


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## Fernando

I chose "No one". Since I have neither spouse nor "significant other" I do not know whether I would like to discuss it with my wife or not. I prefer to think I would have funnier things to speak about.


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## timpeac

I selected co-workers. I think the secrecy surrounding remuneration is partly propogated by companies. I always share salary information with my nearest contemporaries. It makes you much stronger as a whole. And twice in my life I've negotiated significant salary increases because of it.

I don't see the point in telling people who don't need to know, but don't really have a problem telling those who could benefit in some way from the knowledge. I know what many of my friends earn.

Perhaps this is an English phenomenon since I seem to be the only one so far easy with talking to a restricted number of people about what I earn. What say other Englanders?

Edit - actually, looking at the poll many other Brits seem to have gone for family.


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## Roi Marphille

In my case, nobody knows it but me, not even my family, because it's not their business. I don't want to depress them!   just kidding, my best friend is always trying to know it but he will not succeed  . 
I don't have wife but in case I had, I guess I wouldn't mind to share this info with her. 
I can't stand these kind of people who are inquiring all the time: how much did you pay for this or for that? how much do you pay for renting? how much....how much how much how much how much how much how much.......???


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## jinti

I wouldn't mind my spouse knowing -- in fact, I think spouses ought to share this information since it affects how the household is run.

But the only others who know how much I earn are my boss and the IRS (Internal Revenue Service, the US tax collection agency). And even my boss doesn't really know, since I moonlight (I have a second job).

I never really knew for sure how much my parents earned. They never really knew how much I earned. My close friends have an idea (and I have an idea about their salaries), but they have never asked me and I have never told them. The man I've been seeing for 2 years now doesn't know.

On the other hand, I was just talking yesterday with a friend (more of an acquaintance, really) who hates her job and is looking for another. She told me her salary while she was venting to me, maybe so I could keep an eye out for a similar position for her elsewhere.


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## Hakro

jinti said:
			
		

> But the only others who know how much I earn are my boss and the IRS (Internal Revenue Service, the US tax collection agency). And even my boss doesn't really know, since I *moonlight* (I have a second job).
> 
> I never really knew for sure how much my parents earned. They never really knew how much I earned. My close friends have an idea (and I have an idea about their salaries), but they have never asked me and I have never told them. The man I've been seeing for 2 years now doesn't know.


 I always thought that "*moonlighting*" was doing a job that wasn't told to the IRS. Am I totally wrong?
May mother never knew (exactly) how much my dad earned. And the woman I've been seeing for 20 years doesn't know my income. Well, she never asked.


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## timpeac

Hakro said:
			
		

> I always thought that "*moonlighting*" was doing a job that wasn't told to the IRS. Am I totally wrong?


 
Yes. Moonlighting is having a second job undeclared to your main boss.


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## Hakro

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes. Moonlighting is having a second job undeclared to your main boss.


So I was wrong because in Finnish we have a similar expression ('moonlight job') that means a job without taxes. Can you tell me the right term in English because I'd like to start a new thread about "grey economy".


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## timpeac

Hakro said:
			
		

> So I was wrong because in Finnish we have a similar expression ('moonlight job') that means a job without taxes. Can you tell me the right term in English because I'd like to start a new thread about "grey economy".


 
No - start a new thread and I'll answer there, and merge these messages in.


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## Like an Angel

I choose family and close friends (Although I have doubts about incluing the second ones), don't know why I don't like to share with people how much (many). I earn, in other thread in here I mention it because I'm part of the average, and I don't care saying it in here because you have no idea who I'm, so I'm LaA, not for _L_ike _a_n _A_ngel but for _L_ike _a_n _A_nonymous


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## Vanda

I don't mind revealing it. It depens on the subjcted I'm talking about and why.
Quoting Genjen: 


> Overall, it's just a matter of personal taste whether revealing this information is appropriate


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## awanzi

*Mod note:*
*This post was a starter of a new thread, now merged to this previous one .*
*Please, everyone, search the forum for existing threads before opening new ones to avoid repetitions.*


Hi! I'd like to know something from all of you!

They told me that asking to somebody to tell you his/her monthly incom is a very impolite question. 
In my country there is not such a taboo, so we're used to ask it a lot.

And you?


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## Poetic Device

It depends on who you are talking to.  If it is your best friend then there is not that much that is off-limits.  If it's anyone else I would say that yes, that is a rather impolite think to ask.


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## Kajjo

In Germany this question breaks taboos, yes. I am not sure it is _impolite_, though. It is just not adequate.

Kajjo


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## Etcetera

I chose close friends and family. The main reason why I didn't choose 'spouse' was that I'm not married.
But in a whole, I don't like discussing anything that important with strangers and acuiantances.


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## Poetic Device

Now, see, I didn't choose spouse because when I told my ex it lead to nothing but trouble...  (let's not go there).  It is just better off if you have your own seperate accounts and then *maybe *a joint one, IMHO.


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## Etcetera

Poetic Device said:


> Now, see, I didn't choose spouse because when I told my ex it lead to nothing but trouble...  (let's not go there).  It is just better off if you have your own seperate accounts and then *maybe *a joint one, IMHO.


The mods won't like my posting this in the thread, but still... My Mum and me agree wih you on this matter!


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## ouroboros

En este momento trabajo en los Estados Unidos y he visto que en algunos lugares no sólo es poco amable el discutir, revelar o preguntar acerca del salario propio y el de los compañeros de trabajo, sino que la misma empresa solicita a los empleados no discutirlo, argumentando que esto causaría un sentimiento de inquietud y estres en el lugar de trabajo. 

No se hasta donde puede una empresa reforzar esta petición, a final de cuentas depende si uno quiere preguntar y la otra persona quiere responder, el hecho es que existen lineamientos respecto a este tipo de conversaciones en algunas empresas.


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## Poetic Device

¡Ululación, usted está correcto! ¡Me olvidé sobre ése!


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## Kajjo

Poetic Device said:


> Now, see, I didn't choose spouse because when I told my ex it lead to nothing but trouble...  (let's not go there).  It is just better off if you have your own seperate accounts and then *maybe *a joint one, IMHO.


That does not sound like an environment of trust, love and partnership, does it? I believe that if you cannot share such basics with your partner, you have the wrong one in the first place. I cannot imagine founding a family without that much trust, cooperation and reliablity.

Kajjo


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## ouroboros

Yo se de varias parejas que estuvieron muy enamoradas durante mucho tiempo y aunque la cuestión del dinero no fue el único factor para que terminaran si jugó un papel importante. Creo que tanto Poetic Device como Kajjo tienen razón.

Bien reza el dicho: Cuentas claras, amistades largas.


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## Wendy123

I choose Spouse and Family, although my parents don’t know the exact figure. I think it is privacy. I won’t to tell any other people, even close friend. That may bring trouble. If your salary is higher than her, she may be jealous of you. Then your friendships will end up by then. That’s not my wish.


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## awanzi

I'm one of the four "anyone"!! 
So I wouldn't have problem discussing my wages with you all... But I guess you don't care! (I mean that if you don't like to say it you probably  don't like to hear about it)


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

blancalaw said:


> Many people feel uncomfortable about talking about how much they get paid at their job.


 I'm one of those.





> Why is this?


Because I believe it is a very personal issue. 




> Originally Posted by *jinti*
> I wouldn't mind my spouse knowing -- in fact, I think spouses ought to share this information since it affects how the household is run


I agree sooo very much with that. 


> (...) I never really knew for sure how much my parents earned. They never really knew how much I earned.


Same here. Somebody above compared it to telling others what color your underwear is, and I fully agree!

Ow...! Now that I think about it... maybe that's why I only discuss my incomes with my fiancé...  


> Does this vary from country to country?


I guess that has already been cleared out. Down here, it's a matter of personal choice, I guess. Some people like to brag about their 'superior' incomes, some others like to complain about their 'inferior' salary, some others don't give a dang, whatever their wages are... But in general lines, people would 'thread softly' on the topic...


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## Poetic Device

Kajjo said:


> That does not sound like an environment of trust, love and partnership, does it? I believe that if you cannot share such basics with your partner, you have the wrong one in the first place. I cannot imagine founding a family without that much trust, cooperation and reliablity.
> 
> Kajjo


 
I see what you are saying, however, like I said, it was nothing but trouble for me and my ex-husband.  When we found out who made more money than whom, it turned into a fight over who should pay for more, be it the dish soap or a new television.  Then there was the "anything you can do I can do better" phase, then there were pleanty of other fights...

Like I said, Nothing but trouble.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Poetic Device said:


> Like I said, Nothing but trouble.


I understand. This is a very competitive world, therefore that kind of fights is very common. My brother used to be exactly the same way with his girlfriend/wife-in-practice. It was terrible for the girl, until she finally decided to take no more...

However, I agree with jinti:


> Originally Posted by *jinti:*
> I wouldn't mind my spouse knowing -- in fact, I think spouses ought to share this information since it affects how the household is run.


I can't imagine a budget without having an idea of how much money I can count on.  

I know how much my future husband makes, he knows how much I make, and we keep both separete accounts and a shared one (we're building our house together, using that account). So far, we haven't had trouble because of money. Let's wait for the after-the wedding time, however, and see what happens...


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## Lugubert

In the current absence of a SO, I voted No one. Especially not authorities of any kind.


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## Poetic Device

The one thing that I hate the most when it comes to this type of thing is when the person that you are seeking current/future employment from asks you how much you are/were making at your current/previous job.


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## clipper

Its interesting to see that so few people are prepared to talk to colleagues about wages.

Living in a country where wages are so low compared to the cost of living, perhaps if we were all aware of what our colleagues earn we would be more prepared to push for a fair wage ????


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## Kajjo

clipper said:


> Its interesting to see that so few people are prepared to talk to colleagues about wages.


I do not know how it is in other countries, but in Germany most employment contracts prohibit disclosing your salary. Personally, I have never had a contract allowing me to discuss my salary with other employees (with the exception of one governmental job).

Anyway, since freely negotiated salaries are rarely equal, it appears not to be very wise to discuss wages with colleagues. Wages are supposed to reflect e.g. capabilities, enthusiam and loyalty and a variety of wages for the -- only theoretically -- same job seems appropriate to me in many cases.

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

Poetic Device said:


> The one thing that I hate the most when it comes to this type of thing is when the person that you are seeking current/future employment from asks you how much you are/were making at your current/previous job.


At least you need to say what you want to earn with your new employer, don't you? I was never asked about the history of salaries, only about my desires for the job to come. I think that's the right way to do it. Again, as mentioned beforehand, this question can be a trick to see how loyal you behave towards your current boss. Talking about salaries is usually prohibited by contracts in Germany and I guess in many other countries and contracts, too.

Kajjo


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Kajjo said:


> Again, as mentioned beforehand, this question can be a trick to see how loyal you behave towards your current boss. Talking about salaries is usually prohibited in Germany and I guess in many other countries and contracts, too.


It's not prohibited in Venezuela. In fact, one of the first questions that your boss-in-perspective would ask in a job interview is "what is (was) your (latest) salary?". I've always hated it, too, as it says very little to the person who is asking.

I agree: the right question could perhaps be "how much do you expect to earn with us?" (but probably I'd still dislike it  )


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## Kajjo

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> I agree: the right question could perhaps be "how much do you expect to earn with us?" (but probably I'd still dislike it)


You still dislike it? I think that part of an interview is the most interesting. Usually you are through with the tough part and whatever enthusiam might play a role: Eventually the salary is the reason you are there in the first place, aren't you? And as boss it is very important, too. Is the applicant affordable for me? Does he has a realistic picture?

Kajjo


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