# he finally reveled when he opened the door...



## Zdan

Are all tense past tenses proper to use in this sentence?_ <-----Question form original thread title added to post by moderator (Florentia52)----->_

In this sentence that I wrote:       
_- To change your weapons! - Zorbak finally* reveled* when he *opened* the door (to the next barn) and *showed* (to her) that it was essentially a large smith._
I will omit the words in the brackets - this means that in the end version of the sentence the words in the brackets will not exist. I write the words in the brackets only to explain the helpers here.


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## JulianStuart

Kgnot said:


> Are all tense past tenses proper to use in this sentence?_ <-----Question form original thread title added to post by moderator (Florentia52)----->_
> 
> In this sentence:
> _- To change your weapons! - Zorbak finally* reveled* when he *opened* the door (to the next barn) and *showed* (to her) that it was essentially a large smith._
> I omit the words in the brackets


I'm confused. Who wrote this? What does "I omit the words in the brackets" mean?
Do you perhaps mean revealed?


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## london calling

And what's the context? I don't understand what this means at all. A smith? Reveled?


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## Zdan

I edited my post to explain more. Is the sentence grammatically correct and the past tense correctly used in all 3 cases?


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## london calling

It looks the same to me. Incomprehensible and you haven't provided any context.


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## Zdan

The context is that Zorbak is revealing her weapons will be recrafted once he opened the door to another barn...Is it not self explanatory? What do you need to know more to answer my question?


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## london calling

Did you write this yourself?  Are you attempting to describe a videogame or something? What do 'reveled' (revealed?) and 'smith' ( a smith is a person, do you mean 'smithy') mean? What does 'I omit the words in brackets' mean, given that you haven't omitted the words in brackets?


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## Zdan

. I am attempting to describe a scifi situation. Zorbak reveals what will happen after he opens the door to a smith which according to a dictionary is a synonym for a blacksmith :

*noun*. *noun*. /smɪθ/ = blacksmith see goldsmith, gunsmith, locksmith, silversmith.
*smith noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage ...*
www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com › american_english



_Here is the final version :

- To change your weapons! - Zorbak finally* revealed* when he *opened* the door and *showed* that it was essentially a large smith._


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## Edinburgher

london calling said:


> What does 'I omit the words in brackets' mean, given that you haven't omitted the words in brackets?


The faulty present tense "I omit" is a source of confusion.  The OP has meanwhile explained that the words in brackets are explanatory for our benefit only, and will not form part of the final version (i.e. they *will be* omitted).

The opening "To change your weapons!" is bizarre.  What is the purpose of this "to"?  Is this an answer to something?  What comes *before* this?


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## london calling

The OP hasn't answered our questions and he also has to explain what all these mean:


reveled
smith
To change your weapons!


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## Zdan

Edinburgher said:


> The faulty present tense "I omit" is a source of confusion.  The OP has meanwhile explained that the words in brackets are explanatory for our benefit only, and will not form part of the final version (i.e. they *will be* omitted).
> 
> The opening "To change your weapons!" is bizarre.  What is the purpose of this "to"?  Is this an answer to something?  What comes *before* this?


Thank you!
And yes, the "To To change your weapons" is a response to a question :
- Where are we going?


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## Zdan

I posted a response but it is not approved yet. i repost it without links:

 (This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors.)
. I am attempting to describe a scifi situation. Zorbak reveals what will happen after he opens the door to a smith which according to a dictionary is a synonym for a blacksmith :

*noun*. *noun*. /smɪθ/ = blacksmith see goldsmith, gunsmith, locksmith, silversmith.


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## JulianStuart

A smith is a person - the prefix indicates what he works with/on.


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## Zdan

Hm I think you are right and I overlooked it.  I always though a blacksmith is a place where you forge weapons since in games over the forgeries it says blacksmith. But it is apparently the profession. So I will replace it with a smithy then?


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## cidertree

Replacing "smith" with "smithy" would be correct, but it would still be difficult to understand the sentence.

Does "revealed" refer to the answer ("to change your weapons")?


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## Zdan

Yes Zorbak reveals that they will change her weapons when he opens the door to the barn. Do you want to know also that they are at a farm and that is why it is so surprising the large barn was turned into "essentially a large smithy"?
So it all looks good now?:


_- To change your weapons! - Zorbak finally* revealed* when he *opened* the door and *showed* that it was essentially a large smithy._


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## cidertree

No, there are some punctuation problems. Have a look at How to structure and punctuate direct speech in fiction.

To answer your original question, yes, the past tense is fine.


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## Myridon

Is "reveled" meant to be "revealed" (showed) or "revelled" (celebrated)? Revealed needs an object but it's redundant with showed.


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## cidertree

Myridon said:


> Is "reveled" meant to be "revealed" (showed) or "revelled" (celebrated)? Revealed needs an object but it's redundant with showed.


It's "revealed" (made known).


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## Zdan

I meant to type "revealed" and autocorrect misspelled it. So should I replace "showed" with some synonym?


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## Edinburgher

Is there any particular reason you are using dashes instead of quotation marks around "To change your weapons!"?
You have still not corrected the spelling of "reveled" to "revealed".


Myridon said:


> Revealed needs an object


If I understand it correctly, we can think of his answer "To change our weapons" as being that required object.
Think of it like this:  "To change your weapons!", he said, as he opened...
It's OK to change "said" to "revealed" when the meaning is that by saying this he revealed what had previously been a secret.


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## Myridon

Redundant means you already have 2 words that mean showed when you only need one.


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## Zdan

I always use dash to mark speech ever since highschool. Different teachings I guess but this does not seem to bother people who read any reports I sent at work.
I definitely dig  "he said, as he opened " but I want to also underline he has been keeping the other person he talks to - a heroine in the dark as he pushes her through the abandoned farm.  SO i want to use something like reveal to show there was a waiting built up moment up until this point.
Can I use:
" He said finally as he opened the door" ?


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## Edinburgher

If you use "said", then you can use "revealed" instead of "showed".   
But dashes instead of quotes are definitely not a good idea.


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## cidertree

"Reveal" isn't the problem, it's the punctuation that's confusing.

crossposted.


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## Zdan

I type like this since I am seven it will impossible to change at this point.


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## Myridon

There's dialogue in the reports you send at work? 
"To change your weapons " is not the thing being revealed so I don't think that works well as a replacement for "he said".


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## Zdan

Thats a good point I usually I reinterpret the dialogue now that I think about it but there are cases where I quote something the electritian for example said:
John said we need:
- 10 T brackets, 2 trunks, etc


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## JulianStuart

Kgnot said:


> I type like this since I am seven it will impossible to change at this point.


Then you will likely continue to confuse people like me, who expect, well, quotation marks for quotations.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

So here is what I understand:

Zorbak is leading a woman somewhere but doesn't want to tell her where they are going until they reach their destination. The woman's weapons have been damaged or lost and need to be repaired or replaced. Only when they get to where he is leading her (the last in a series of buildings) does he finally tell her, as he opens the door, that they are in a smithy (where this can be done), as she can see as the opens he door to it.

Is this what you're trying to say, Kgnot? (We can't rewrite the sentences for you, I'm afraid.)


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## Zdan

Yes this is exactly it. I did not realize you needed me to be so descriptive nor I can describe it better in fewer words!


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## Zdan

JulianStuart said:


> Then you will likely continue to confuse people like me, who expect, well, quotation marks for quotations.



But this is a direct representation of speech pattern not a quotation.

_(or ")- To change your weapons! - (or") Zorbak finally said as he opened the door and showed that it was essentially a large smithy._ - will that be alright?


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## Edinburgher

No, it won't.  We use dashes for other purposes, not for quoting.
Actually, I know you aren't quoting in the sense of one speaker quoting what another has said.
We use quotation marks as speech marks within a narration.


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## Zdan

But this is not quoting....I feel like we digress though


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## Edinburgher

Sorry, I was editing #32 while you wrote #33.


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## JulianStuart

Kgnot said:


> But this is a direct representation of speech pattern not a quotation.
> 
> _(or ")- To change your weapons! - (or") Zorbak finally *said* as he opened the door and showed that it was essentially a large smithy._ - will that be alright?


It may help to realize that you, as writer, are considered to be quoting what Zorbak said, so we use the term “quotation mark”.


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## Chasint

If I learn Bulgarian I will learn Bulgarian punctuation. If you want native speakers of English to understand, please learn our punctuation.  The fact that so many people misunderstood what you were trying to say should be an indication that you and everyone else would save a lot of typing if you simply adopted our customs.

"Where are we going?", she asked.

"To change your weapons!",  Zorbak finally revealed,  opening the door and showing what was essentially a large blacksmith's forge.


__________________________________

Note: "he opened the door and showed that it was essentially a large smithy" is nonsense. It means that the door is a smithy.


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## Zdan

After some extensive research I discovered you are mainly right except for some popular writers who decided to use dashes like Shakespeare and James Joyce. I quote (a real quote):
" More nuanced answer: I think it would be wrong, but, in fiction, a genius like Shakespeare or James Joyce could probably make it work if he wanted to. Maybe, if you are also a genius, you can too. " - from the internet. That being said perhaps I should consider the punctuation if it is that big of a deal . I did not even know there is different punctuations representing speech patterns. My bible was even with dashes. 
Also I recall a major issue with using quotation marks to mark speech - there is no way to differentiate between quoting someone in the story and representing their speech sentence in real time. For example He told us "Using weapons here is forbidden" as to 
- Don't use weapons!
Anyway so thanks for the last suggestion. i am not sure I like using too much gerundive but if it is sounding grammatically correct I will use it. Can I just add while to explain he is doing it while opening the door?:

"_Zorbak finally revealed while opening the door and showing what was essentially a large smithy. _"


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## Edinburgher

Chasint said:


> If I learn Bulgarian I will learn Bulgarian punctuation.


  A cursory look at  this wikipedia page  initially suggests (in the summary table) that Bulgarian uses the same kind of quotation marks as we do (albeit with the opening double-quote at the bottom, as it is in German), but on closer inspection it transpires that they distinguish between quotations of the kind where one speaker quotes another (for which they use the above marks) and direct speech in prose, for which they use dashes. It doesn't mention this is the table, but it does in the first paragraph below the table, in the first subsection of the section "Specific language features".


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## Zdan

Yes that is correct. Why  you do not use different markings for that?


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## JulianStuart

Kgnot said:


> Yes that is correct. Why  you do not use different markings for that?


See #35 above. If someone quotes someone else in their speech, we use single ‘ or double “ quotation marks depending on what was used for the direct speech.


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## Zdan

You say that while I am sure you did not read what we discussed earlier about citation of direct speech.
Anyway final is:

_Zorbak finally revealed while opening the door and showing what was essentially a large smithy._


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## cidertree

At the risk of being repetitive, without correct punctuation it doesn't make sense.


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## Myridon

Opening the door of the barn, Zorbak revealed what was essentially a large smithy.


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## Zdan

I want to mention that he "finally" does that


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