# gli zuccheri si sono svolti lentamente e regolarmente



## anglomania1

Hi there, 
I have seen that "svolgersi" means to "unfold" - but referring to events.
My context is winemaking and it refers to the sugars during fermentation!!
The sentence:
La vinificazione è durata 33 giorni e gli zuccheri *si sono svolti* lentamente e regolarmente, ho svinato un vino che reputo nella migliore tradizione X e gli amici professori che hanno seguito la vinificazione giorno per giorno, mi confermano con tutte le analisi, gli studi e le sperimentazioni fatte che questa mia sensazione è da loro condivisa.

Usually the sugars turn into alcohol, so can I say that "the sugars *developed/evolved* slowly"?? Boh!
I'm not too sure what the author means, here.
Any suggestions?
Thanks, 
Anglo


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## london calling

Might it be something to do with the fact that the sugars break down and become yeast (fermentation)?


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## anglomania1

london calling said:


> Might it be something to do with the fact that the sugars break down and become yeast (fermentation)?



Hi Jo, 
yes probably, I mean, that's what sugars during fermentation, yeast breaks them down and turn thems into alcohol. It was just that "si sono svolti" seemed a strange choice of verb!!
Maybe I'm making a mountain of a molehill!
Thanks, 
Anglo


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## london calling

Why not use _break down_ then?  _The sugars broke down slowly and surely.._ (or something like that!).


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## WordsWordWords

Hi anglo,

Is it possible that in the Italian text there is a typo and they really meant "_sciolti_"?? Because then the Italian would make more sense:

La vinificazione è durata 33 giorni e gli zuccheri *si sono sciolti lentamente e regolarmente...

*
So that the English would be:

"Vinification took 33 days, during which the sugars _*dissolved*_ slowly and consistently..."

Could that work?


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## Benzene

Hi!

Try with "_the sugars are converted slowly and properly..._".

Bye,

Benzene


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## london calling

Benzie, quindi sei d'accordo anche tu che ha a che fare con la fermentazione (gli zuccheri che diventano lievito)? Se sì , ripropongo il mio suggerimento: _break down_. Oppure forse _break down and ferment._


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## King Crimson

WordsWordWords said:


> Hi anglo,
> 
> Is it possible that in the Italian text there is a typo [That is more than likely, in my opinion]
> and they really meant "_sciolti_"?? Because then the Italian would make more sense:
> 
> La vinificazione è durata 33 giorni e gli zuccheri *si sono sciolti lentamente e regolarmente...
> 
> *So that the English would be:
> 
> "Vinification took 33 days, during which the sugars _*dissolved*_ slowly and consistently..."
> 
> Could that work?


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## WordsWordWords

Benzene said:


> Hi!
> 
> Try with "_the sugars are *converted*__ slowly and properly..._".
> 
> Benzene



Yes, that might work even better, though I don't know if "properly" is the right term here. My instinct would be to use the word "_completely_" but it is not a direct translation form the original.

Anyway, there's this:

http://www.morethanorganic.com/fermentation

and this (third paragraph under "Fermentation"):

http://www.morethanorganic.com/fermentation


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## Crix

Ciao a tutti, ogni tanto mi riaffaccio con piacere da queste parti 

Per anglomania1, a quanto pare lo "svolgimento degli zuccheri" appartiene alla terminologia specifica dei vinificatori e non un typo, e vuol dire "trasformazione in alcool":

"La fermentazione spontanea è affidata ai soli lieviti indigeni e i  vini, non filtrati né chiarificati, sono svinati una volta che tutto *lo  zucchero è svolto in alcol *e lasciati stabilizzare naturalmente in  botte". Da: http://www.sarfati.it/v-Cascina_tavijin (non so se sono autorizzata a postare links e se del caso me ne scuso, il mio intento è quello di fornire la fonte).


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## anglomania1

Thanks everyone!
@ Crix, that's very useful to know - I'm pretty expert on wine terms and I've had to translate some pretty outrageous stuff in the past 20 years (as many foreros here will bear witness to!!), but there's always something new to learn!
Thanks, 
Anglo


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## King Crimson

Grazie per il chiarimento Crix, ho ampliato il mio vocabolario (anche se non credo mi capiterà mai di utilizzare "svolgimento degli zuccheri"). Non si finisce mai di imparare...


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## WordsWordWords

Giusto Crix -- scusate per il mio suggerimento nel post #5 che ci fosse errore tipografico... 

(Silly error on my part; sorry guys....  )


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## King Crimson

WordsWordWords said:


> Giusto Crix -- scusate per il mio suggerimento nel post #5 che ci fosse errore tipografico...
> 
> (Silly error on my part; sorry guys....  )



Shame on me too, then.
No invece, credo che a meno che uno non fosse un esperto del settore era possibilissimo pensare a un errore, ci ho pensato anch'io che sono un madrelingua...


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## Crix

You're most welcome all.

To tell the truth, at first glance I also thought it was a typo, but there was a little voice in the back of my head (very faint and very distant ) telling me that one of the archaic meanings of "svolgersi" or "svolgere" was "to turn into" - "to become" via a series of events or processes, so I had to double-check this one.


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## london calling

So it does mean _break down and ferment (slowly and surely)_.

Thanks, crix. Another new word!


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## anglomania1

Hi there, 
just a comment, I think the confusion comes from the original sentence, because if "svolgersi" means become/turn into, you would expect them to say WHAT the sugars turn into!!!
In English we can put "the sugars slowly and steadily turn into alcohol", but the original Italian sentence this is missing. 
That's why LC's last suggestion (break down and ferment) is a good option.
Anglo


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## Crix

I agree - unless it exists in English an equally technical word or idiom to describe this process apart from "break down and ferment", which I'm certainly not aware of. In any case I didn't meant to suggest "become/turn into" without a direct object as a translation, just wanted to bring up the existence of a "svolgimento degli zuccheri" and its meaning (and leave the difficult part to the native speakers ).


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## WordsWordWords

Hi anglo,

Have you seen this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winemaking

"...the yeast *converts* most of the sugars in the grape juice into alcohol..."   

I contacted a winemaker friend near Alba who is completely bilingual (attended graduate school in the US) and he had this to say: The term "convert" is preferable to "break down" in this situation because that is indeed what takes place. The word "_svolgere_" is not strange in the Italian text and it _implies_ the conversion of the sugars into _alcohol_, hence it is fine with no object. To help further, he gave this example: This term is also used in describing Moscato, in which half of the sugars are converted into alcohol and are actually called "_zuccheri svolti_", while the other half remain sugar.

I hope this is useful.


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## Benzene

Hi *WWW!*

I agree with your winemaker friend.

Bye,

Benzene


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## Crix

Hey, this is a great team work! Thanks WWW.:thumbsup:


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## anglomania1

WordsWordWords said:


> Hi anglo,
> 
> Have you seen this?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winemaking
> 
> "...the yeast *converts* most of the sugars in the grape juice into alcohol..."
> 
> I contacted a winemaker friend near Alba who is completely bilingual (attended graduate school in the US) and he had this to say: The term "convert" is preferable to "break down" in this situation because that is indeed what takes place. The word "_svolgere_" is not strange in the Italian text and it _implies_ the conversion of the sugars into _alcohol_, hence it is fine with no object. To help further, he gave this example: This term is also used in describing Moscato, in which half of the sugars are converted into alcohol and are actually called "_zuccheri svolti_", while the other half remain sugar.
> 
> I hope this is useful.



Hi there, 
that's great, and very useful - It is a Moscato, in fact!
You say the verb is ok without an object, but I assume you are only referring to the Italian verb and not the English one. I mean, we can't just say "the sugars convert", without an object, or can we?
Thanks, 
Anglo


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## Crix

If I'm correct, the verb "_convert_" without an object means "convertirsi" in the religious sense (from Hinduism to Buddhism, e.g.) so I suppose that if you say "the sugars convert" it sounds like they have adopted a new religion ... anyhow, in Italian the verb is OK without any object, as explained by WWW's friend.


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## WordsWordWords

Hi anglo,

Glad I could help (and what a nice coincidence that you are talking about Moscato)!

Italian _svolgere_ object not necessary (as Crix says);
English _convert_ takes the object ---> think of it as a "_from_ xxx _to_ xxx" -- the before and after are both are needed.

So, referring back to my post #5 (for the sentence construction, and _not_ my erroneous interpretation of "svolti" )  I think you can say:

"Vinification took 33 days, during which the sugars _*were* slowly *converted* into alcohol."


_PS I neglected to say in my post #19 that my friend also said he would omit translating "regolarmente" in the English version because it's one of those Italian excesses...


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## Crix

I agree with WWW on "regolarmente", which is generally a quite redundant and mostly vague adverb belonging to the category "verbose Italian" . In this particular case though, it seems to me that it means that the process of sugar conversion into alcohol ran "as planned", or "smoothly", and perhaps it is worth keeping it in the translation. What do you think?


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## WordsWordWords

Hi Crix,

I see your point. My friend the winemaker said he would not use it, as it is (as you yourself noted) "verbose Italian". My take on it is if the conversion had not been carried out "as planned", the wine would have been most likely ruined or affected negatively and anglo's translation would not have come into being... 

However if anglo needs/wants to keep two adjectives, I would use "accurately":

"Vinification took 33 days, during which the sugars _were__ slowly and *accurately* __converted__ into alcohol."
_
But I still prefer the sentence without adding a second adjective...


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## Crix

Hi WWW,

ok, we are getting into splitting hairs  - basically I feel you are right, but as I have no idea of winemaking, I still wonder whether the sugars can be converted "smoothly" or not and what is the outcome if they just... er, "jerk" during the process.  - anyhow for some reason I think that anglo eventually found out the right translation. 

Thanks to all for the brilliant posts and exchanges - very helpful.


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## WordsWordWords

Hi Crix,

You're right, a bit of hair-splitting, but in the world of wine and winemaking....  Though a seemingly "natural" process, from what I understand about fermentation, it can be delicate! 

Yes, anglo probably did get what was "just right" for the English version -- good contributions from everyone! It's so nice to be part of getting to the bottom of these linguistic puzzles. 

Here's one other possibility that I thought of just now: "gradually" in place of "slowly". (More hair-splitting )


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## Crix

Oh yes, I hair-splittinlgly  go for "gradually" - and I agree, it is very pleasant to be part of such interesting threads with such a bunch of interesting contributors.


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## london calling

WordsWordWords said:


> n
> "Vinification took 33 days, during which the sugars _were__ slowly and *accurately* __converted__ into alcohol."_


I prefer Anglo's _slowly and steadily (_or _my slowly and surely, _not that I wish to blow my own trumpet or anything) because both expressions exist in 'proper' English (or at least they do in BE)....


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