# 分かることですけど



## Kenshiromusou

Yo, friends.
I bring another doubt.
Could you help me again?
I learned that Verb-dictionary form + ことだ= should/suggesions or advice.
However, reading this phrase, seems here it's exchangeable with *だろう*.
曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*ことです*けど、かならず裏からも光がそれを回り込む。
Isn't 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*ことです*けど the same as 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*だろう*けど?
Thank you very much.


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> Isn't 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*ことです*けど the same as 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*だろう*けど?


ことですけど is good when you're sure. But だろうけど shows your assumption/estimation. Again, they show your sureness levels.



> seems here it's exchangeable with *だろう*.


You can, if you want to decrease your sureness level by changing ことです to だろう. But the two indeed may be similar.



> Verb-dictionary form + ことだ= should/suggesions or advice.


This usage is different to that example. I'd say to you, _Kenshiro, 「北斗の拳　映画版」も観ることだね。_


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> ことですけど is good when you're sure. But だろうけど shows your assumption/estimation. Again, they show your sureness levels.
> 
> 
> You can, if you want to decrease your sureness level by changing ことです to だろう. But the two indeed may be similar.
> 
> 
> This usage is different to that example. I'd say to you, _Kenshiro, 「北斗の拳　映画版」も観ることだね。_


Oh, the obvious translation was "It's a well-known thing by the people/person who have done the drawing", but I thought this ことです was a polite variant of _ことだ, since he uses polite language. So, although a person uses ます形, he would use ことだ for _disambiguation? Or, is it a thing we should prospect from context?
友よ、どうもありがとうございました。


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> I thought this ことです was a polite variant of _ことだ, _


Yes, you're right!


> _a person uses ます形, he would use ことだ for _disambiguation?


The speaker has just chosen the politer way, です.

That けど is the conjunction けれども 接助２＆３. けど is the abbreviated/simplified version.
So, that will be,
[曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかることです][けど]、(The politer version, as you said.)
Also possible,
[曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかることだ][けど]、
I think you have read this style somewhere.

You can start talking about something using this one.
昨日の会議のことだけど、・・・
今日の夕飯のことだけど、・・・
That statement is these.



> It's a well-known thing


Yes. He says "It (there) is a/one thing..." So it's a bit different to advice cases.


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> Yes, you're right!
> 
> The speaker has just chosen the politer way, です.
> 
> That けど is the conjunction けれども 接助２＆３. けど is the abbreviated/simplified version.
> So, that will be,
> [曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかることです][けど]、(The politer version, as you said.)
> Also possible,
> [曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかることだ][けど]、
> I think you have read this style somewhere.
> 
> You can start talking about something using this one.
> 昨日の会議のことだけど、・・・
> 今日の夕飯のことだけど、・・・
> That statement is these.
> 
> 
> Yes. He says "It (there) is a/one thing..." So it's a bit different to advice cases.


But my problem is to discern when ことだ/ことです means "It's a thing" and when ことだ/ことです means "should" ( suggesions or advice). 
The same thing happens when I have to discern between ある (持つ) and ある (存在する).
"当時は小島剛夕先生のイラスト集*があった*ので、それを参考にしてあの刀なども取り入れました。"
I really don't know if he says that he had a book or there was [being published/sold] a book. I can't believe that even Japanese native speakers can't discern. This dubiousness level bothers me. Maybe such dubiousness just exists for people like me, studying by textbooks.
友よ、もう一度、ありがとうございました。


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> when ことだ/ことです means "should" ( suggesions or advice).


Something is omitted: "A good thing for you (is)" is omitted. _きみに良いのは、_「北斗の拳　映画版」を観ることだね。
In advice, you usually advise something good―that's what we know as common sense. Why this speech is understood as advice? A conversation flow can decide so.



> when ことだ/ことです means "It's a thing"


In your OP, to me, the fragment "わかること" suggests that _it (there) is a thing that is well-known/understood. _There is such a thing. Sorry, this is a less logical or customary thing. I'll add more information if I get.




> "当時は小島剛夕先生のイラスト集*があった*ので、"


This way can suggest that _WE_ had that illustration book. So this is a bit away from the meaning that Suda only/personally had that book.
If he especially wants to say that he had it, he can alternatively say 当時は小島剛夕先生のイラスト集を持っていたので、



> when I have to discern between ある (持つ) and ある (存在する).


Good. About this topic, I'll talk to you tomorrow. I'll come back to this thread.


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> This way can suggest that *WE had* that illustration book. So this is a bit away from the meaning that Suda only/personally had that book.
> If he especially wants to say that he had it, he can alternatively say 当時は小島剛夕先生のイラスト集を持っていたので、
> 
> Good. About this topic, I'll talk to you tomorrow. I'll come back to this thread.


We? There was the book? We, animators, *possess* the book? 
僕は単細胞ですまん。　友よ、お休み。


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## frequency

Okay, I've safely come back.



Kenshiromusou said:


> 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*ことです*けど、


This こと（です） is introducing the second clause: かならず裏からも光がそれを回り込む。
・・・・・わかることがありますが、（それというのは）かならず裏からも光がそれを回り込む。

かならず裏からも光がそれを回り込む。(= the main topic) and 曲面の物のデッサンをちゃんとやった人ならわかる*ことです*けど、(= the introductory topic with which you can start the discussion/statement.)


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> We? There was the book? We, animators, *possess* the book? 僕は単細胞ですまん。


"Single-celled organism". よく知ってるな！lol

That book was there, so it was accessible, available to us/people (= people in general) at that time. Many? Who? It's unspecified.



> I have to discern between ある (持つ) and ある (存在する).


いる・ある mean that something exists/is present on a habitual basis.
_For/to me, there is XX_. In other words, this is _I have XX_.

かばんがある。 For/to me*, there is a bag = I have a bag. (You're an owner.) Or, there is a bag here/somewhere. (If not for you.)
犬がいる。 For/to me*, there is a dog = I have a dog. Or, there is a dog here/somewhere. (If not for you.)

Furthermore, 持っている can work for 1) habitual action or 2) temporary action.
So when you say かばんを持っています。, 1) Owner 2) You're holding a bag in your hand now.


*Often omitted. （私には、）犬がいる。 Does this thread help?  新聞を持っています／新聞があります


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> "Single-celled organism". よく知ってるな！lol
> 
> *That book was there, so it was accessible, available to us/people (= people in general) at that time. Many? Who? It's unspecified.*
> 
> 
> いる・ある mean that something exists/is present on a habitual basis.
> _For/to me, there is XX_. In other words, this is _I have XX_.
> 
> かばんがある。 For/to me*, there is a bag = I have a bag. (You're an owner.) Or, there is a bag here/somewhere. (If not for you.)
> 犬がいる。 For/to me*, there is a dog = I have a dog. Or, there is a dog here/somewhere. (If not for you.)
> 
> Furthermore, 持っている can work for 1) habitual action or 2) temporary action.
> So when you say かばんを持っています。, 1) Owner 2) You're holding a bag in your hand now.View attachment 19728
> 
> *Often omitted. （私には、）犬がいる。 Does this thread help?  新聞を持っています／新聞があります


Thank you very much, great topic.
Thinking about this case, there's is a similar verb in Portuguese.
We have the verb "ter" (it means simultaneously 存在する and 持つ) — If someone talks "当時はイラスト集があった", we would infer: "There was [on the market] a book _at that time" and if was "当時、僕はイラスト集があった", we would infer: "At that time, I had a book". 
Apparently
In Portuguese, from 当時は小島剛夕先生のイラスト集*があった*ので we most likely would prospect:"There was [on the market] a book at that time", since he did not talked "スタジオに小島剛夕先生のイラスト集があったので". I feel Japanese speakers often omit parts that are necessary to full comprehension, as they did no care about if the listener will catch all details.　　But, Apparently, it`s the same with all languages. _
友よ、もう一度、どうもありがとうございました。


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> We have the verb "ter"
> "当時はイラスト集があった", we would infer: "There was [on the market] a book _at that time" and if was "当時、僕*に*はイラスト集があった", we would infer: "At that time, I had a book"._


You're welcome. I agree with you.

You have a bag. It is yours. You can say: かばんがある。
There's a bag one or two step behind you. You don't know whose bag it is. You can say, too: かばんがある。


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