# Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi: a meadow



## marrish

A ''meadow'' is a field which is covered mostly by grass and other small plants. How do you say ''meadow'' in Hindi? This thread is also open for Urdu where I believe there are several manners to refer to it.

The online lexicon shabdkosh.com returns unsatisfactory results: _chaaraagaah_ (for Urdu _charaa gaah_) which would be a pasture and _ghaas kaa maidaan_ which is rather descriptive and limits the vegetation to grass. None of these, as far as I believe, can be used in the following sample sentence:

Among the wild flowers which populated the mountain *meadow*, crocuses were the most beautiful.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> A ''meadow'' is a field which is covered mostly by grass and other small plants. How do you say ''meadow'' in Hindi? This thread is also open for Urdu where I believe there are several manners to refer to it.
> 
> The online lexicon shabdkosh.com returns unsatisfactory results: _chaaraagaah_ (for Urdu _charaa gaah_) which would be a pasture and _ghaas kaa maidaan_ which is rather descriptive and limits the vegetation to grass. None of these, as far as I believe, can be used in the following sample sentence:
> 
> Among the wild flowers which populated the mountain *meadow*, crocuses were the most beautiful.


 marrish SaaHib, while I agree with your point about _charaa gaah _above, it is one of the words that does get listed for a _meadow_ in at least some Urdu lexicons. However, you may prefer these: _sabzahzaar_ / _marGhzaar._


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## panjabigator

How about "kyārī?"

Never mind. Just checked Platts: 
کياريकियारी_kiyārī, or क्यारी kyārī, or केआरी keʼārī [Prk. कोअरिआ?; S. केदार+इका], s.f. Bed (of a garden or field); a border; a frame; a bed (of salt, e.g. non-kī kyārī);—a field or plot of ground under cultivation having a raised border, bank, or hedge round it; a garden with a fence or border round it._


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## Qureshpor

If you wish to include "Punjabi" in your thread title, then I can tell you that I used to take our buffalo to a "belaa" which I believe was a "meadow".


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> This thread is also open for Urdu where I believe there are several manners to refer to it.
> Among the wild flowers which populated the mountain *meadow*, crocuses were the most beautiful.


Attempt: راغ کو معمور کرنے والے خود رو/ جنگلی پھولوں کے مابین ، کرکم حسین ترین تھے
_raagh ko ma'moor karne waale khud ruu/jangli phooloN ke maa baen, kurkam Haseen tareen the_


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## Qureshpor

I don't know what JaiHind and nineth's views are for the word in Hindi, but Caturvedi's dictionary gives "baaNgar" बाँगरbā:gar (_nm) _


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Attempt: راغ کو معمور کرنے والے خود رو/ جنگلی پھولوں کے مابین ، کرکم حسین ترین تھے
> _raagh ko ma'moor karne waale khud ruu/jangli phooloN ke maa baen, kurkam Haseen tareen the_



My "chavanii"'s worth..

daaman-i-koh par ugne vaale jaNgalii phuuloN ke gulzaar meN se za3faraan sab se xuub-suurat the.


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## Qureshpor

QURESHPOR said:


> If you wish to include "Punjabi" in your thread title, then I can tell you that I used to take our buffalo to a "belaa" which I believe was a "meadow".



A Punjabi dictionary gives "balhii", "balrii", "balruu" and "taraa'ii" for "meadow".


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> A Punjabi dictionary gives "balhii", "balrii", "balruu" and "taraa'ii" for "meadow".


I have never heard any of these. Interesting that the dictionary doesn't give ''belaa''.


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Attempt: راغ کو معمور کرنے والے خود رو/ جنگلی پھولوں کے مابین ، کرکم حسین ترین تھے
> _raagh ko ma'moor karne waale khud ruu/jangli phooloN ke maa baen, kurkam Haseen tareen the_



Thank you for this bold attempt! I must confess that I didn't know raaGh. For the ones like me, this entry from Platts sheds clarity:

P 
راغ _rāg̠_, s.m. The lower part or skirt of a mountain on the side of a desert; a meadow; a desert.
This word would solve the whole of ''mountain meadow'' as it seems. Also, the use of *xud-ro* deserves distinction.

Thank you for this input!


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> My "chavanii"'s worth..
> 
> daaman-i-koh par ugne vaale jaNgalii phuuloN ke gulzaar meN se za3faraan sab se xuub-suurat the.


This sentence sounds great! It is nearly the same as I would say it, only that I thought of saying *chamanzaar*. Would this be good?

PS I've always believed it to be *za3fraan*!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> This sentence sounds great! It is nearly the same as I would say it, only that I thought of saying *chamanzaar*. Would this be good?
> 
> PS I've always believed it to be *za3fraan*!



An old Persian lady once told me that "chaman" is "lawn".

Freedom of expression and belief are two of the fundamental rights under the Human Rights Act 1998


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> An old Persian lady once told me that "chaman" is "lawn".



I have heard this from Iranians too. Fwiw the Kashmiri word is marg. In HU, Bangar has a specific meaning and is contrasted with Khadir. Khadir is an area in the Northern plains that borders rivers while Bangar is doab land that is further from rivers. Google it. It's different from meadow.


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## marrish

hindiurdu said:


> I have heard this from Iranians too. Fwiw the Kashmiri word is marg. In HU, Bangar has a specific meaning and is contrasted with Khadir. Khadir is an area in the Northern plains that borders rivers while Bangar is doab land that is further from rivers. Google it. It's different from meadow.


What an interesting course of our proceedings here! Thanks for sharing this info.

By the way, how is the word pronounced in Kashmiri, marg or marGh?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> An old Persian lady once told me that "chaman" is "lawn".
> 
> Freedom of expression and belief are two of the fundamental rights under the Human Rights Act 1998



Qureshpor SaaHib, No occasion is too much to remind ourselves of this Freedom, that is achieved and agreed upon by the humanity and making use of this privilege/birthright I felt no embarrassment in sharing what I wrongly thought to be right. 

The old Persian lady, God grant her health, was definitely right and I imagine my suggestion is right in this light or am I missing something (very likely!)


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## hindiurdu

marrish said:


> By the way, how is the word pronounced in Kashmiri, marg or marGh?



'marg', but then Kashmiris almost universally share the Gh → g deterioration common to Punjabis too. It might very well be an evolved form of راغ. Also, note that Kashmiri native speakers have a tendency to insert a half-vowel here. marg → mar(i)g. Can sound like mar(y)g with some people.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> 'marg', but then Kashmiris almost universally share the Gh → g deterioration common to Punjabis too. It might very well be an evolved form of راغ. Also, note that Kashmiri native speakers have a tendency to insert a half-vowel here. marg → mar(i)g. Can sound like mar(y)g with some people.



My experience of Punjabis on the Pakistani side is that even the totally illiterate pronounce the x and Gh accurately. In the Indian Punjab, things are different. And that goes for z >> j too.


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> My experience of Punjabis on the Pakistani side is that even the totally illiterate pronounce the x and Gh accurately. In the Indian Punjab, things are different. And that goes for z >> j too.



Ah okay. I stand corrected. However, if anything, Kashmiris have a (very strong) j >> z error. Maahaaraajaa >> Maahaaraazaa.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> 'marg', but then Kashmiris almost universally share the Gh → g deterioration common to Punjabis too. It might very well be an evolved form of راغ. Also, note that Kashmiri native speakers have a tendency to insert a half-vowel here. marg → mar(i)g. Can sound like mar(y)g with some people.



Probably from " مرغ ", a kind of grass, hence "مرغزار " a meadow.


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> Probably from " مرغ ", a kind of grass, hence "مرغزار " a meadow.



Certainly a possibility.


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## marrish

hindiurdu said:


> 'marg', but then Kashmiris almost universally share the Gh → g deterioration common to Punjabis too. It might very well be an evolved form of راغ. Also, note that Kashmiri native speakers have a tendency to insert a half-vowel here. marg → mar(i)g. Can sound like mar(y)g with some people.


How much one can learn by asking a simple question! Thank you for sharing the spirit of this forum.


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> An old Persian lady once told me that "chaman" is "lawn".
> 
> ....


 Apart from Persophones we too use _chaman_ to mean _lawn_!


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> Probably from " مرغ ", a kind of grass, hence "مرغزار " a meadow.



QP SaaHib, we most certainly use _marGhzaar_ (and _sabzahzaar_) in Urdu to mean a meadow, as I mentioned earlier:  


Faylasoof said:


> marrish SaaHib, while I agree with your point about _charaa gaah _above, it is one of the words that does get listed for a _meadow_ in at least some Urdu lexicons. However, you may prefer these: _sabzahzaar_ / _marGhzaar._


  Here is Iqbal:

وہ* مرغرار* كہ بیم خزاں نہیں جس میں
غمیں نہ ہو كہ ترے آشیاں سے دور نہیں
اقبال


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## Faylasoof

BTW, we also use these words for meadow / garden (_chaman; laalah-zaar; marGh-zaar_) in a figurative sense:

 پھولا شفق سے چرخ پہ جب *لالہ زارِ* صبح
گلزارِ  شب  خزاں ہوا ،  آئی  بہارِ صبح
كرنے لگا  فلك  زرِ انجم  نثارِ  صبح
سر گرمِ ذكرِ حق ہوئے طاعت گزارِ صبح
(انیس)


  ----------------

 نہاں  سحابِ  مشیت میں تھی  بہارِ  وجود
گواہ  صنعت ِ صانع  ہے  خار  خارِ  وجدو
۔۔۔۔
۔۔۔۔
عجیب و باعثِ حیرت *چمن* ہے ہستی كا
علامت ِ  ید ِ  قدرت  *چمن*  ہے  ہستی كا
(حُرّ)


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## marrish

Since my primary interest was Hindi, can somebody air their views how a meadow is in Hindi? Thank you.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Since my primary interest was Hindi, can somebody air their views how a meadow is in Hindi? Thank you.



I thought I had. "baaNgar". I don't know if Hindi speaking members on the forum can think of any other words or not.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> I thought I had. "baaNgar". I don't know if Hindi speaking members on the forum can think of any other words or not.


You certainly had but more explanation of this word came in post #13, from which we know that it is not ''a meadow'' exactly (please do correct me in case I understood #13 wrong). PG jii proposed kyaarii but autocorrected his suggestion.


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## greatbear

For this Hindi speaker, a meadow is a "chargaah".


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## marrish

Thank you very much indeed. Perhaps you would be so kind to type it in the Hindi script?


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Perhaps you would be so kind to type it in the Hindi script?



I would write it as चरगाह.


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> I would write it as चरगाह.



You don't mean चरागाह by any chance, do you?


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> You certainly had but more explanation of this word came in post #13, from which we know that it is not ''a meadow'' exactly (please do correct me in case I understood #13 wrong). PG jii proposed kyaarii but autocorrected his suggestion.



Point taken. Chaturvedi gives it as "meadow" for "baaNgar".


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> You don't mean चरागाह by any chance, do you?



I don't.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Point taken. Chaturvedi gives it as "meadow" for "baaNgar".


My dictionary defines _baaNgar_ as: _uuNchii zamiin, vah zamiin jo baaRh-meN na Duube; ek tarah kaa bail_.


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## panjabigator

I still think that "kyārī" might work. I do believe my mother has used it to mean meadow before. How would others define this word?


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I still think that "kyārī" might work. I do believe my mother has used it to mean meadow before. How would others define this word?



For me your suggestion means a "flower bed" or similar.


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## marrish

panjabigator said:


> I still think that "kyārī" might work. I do believe my mother has used it to mean meadow before. How would others define this word?


My Hindi dictionary says: _baaGh yaa khet-kii meNR*banaakar praaya: chaukor khaane kii shak(a)l meN kiyaa huaa vibhaag_. Another rustic form is given as _klaalii_!

*meNR*- khet kii hadbaNdii, siNchaa'ii aadike lie uske ird-gird banaayaa huaa miTTii kaa gheraa, DaaNRaa_*_.

_*Qureshpor SaaHib, please note that at this point an imperfection in the agreed transliteration rules has been detected. The word in Hindi is written *मेंड़*, (Urdu:_مینڈ_), with the final R. In this case, the capital N used for the nasal sound has to be followed by R, and we land up with NR, which in turn is used to depict the retroflex N. In my opinion we should discuss other possiblities to romanize the latter._


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## Qureshpor

^ I shall pay heed to your advice but do you think my eye sight is so poor that you had to type in huge letters?!

I think you might have misspelt the Urdu version or are my eyes playing up (yet again!)?

Please reduce the size, if it is not too much to ask.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> ^ I shall pay heed to your advice but do you think my eye sight is so poor that you had to type in huge letters?!
> 
> I think you might have misspelt the Urdu version or are my eyes playing up (yet again!)?
> 
> Please reduce the size, if it is not too much to ask.



I'm so sorry! Only the star was meant to be so big! Size reduced. The Urdu version is different because I have found only this in here, however I don't believe it can't be مینڑ, since this option would be considered as smoothier language.


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