# Use of the article



## mrt_265

Geia!I try to learn greek myself and I couldn't understand something about genders.My greek friend said that we don't put enas,mia or ena when noun is used with an adjective.Are there any other conditions we don't put them before noun or it's special for 'nouns used with adjectives'.Thanks from now


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## anthodocheio

Could you give us an example about what your greek friend says?


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## mrt_265

anthodocheio said:


> Could you give us an example about what your greek friend says?



ενά σπίτι---->καλό σπίτι ,he said that we didn't have to put ''ena'' before ''kalo''.Is it an exception?


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## anthodocheio

"Ένα καλό σπίτι" is OK. It is correct to say it. 
I don't know if it depends on the context.. I can't think right now.. 
What would be the rest of the sentence, mrt 265?


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## mrt_265

anthodocheio said:


> What would be the rest of the sentence, mrt 265?


συγγνώμη He didn't say it in a sentence.He just gave an example and said ''If there is an adjective,the noun doesn't take gender word''.


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## anthodocheio

mrt_265 said:


> συγγνώμη He didn't say it in a sentence.He just gave an example and said ''If there is an adjective,the noun doesn't take gender word''.


 
Hey! Don't worry! I just believe it's fine.

Next time ask him what he meant and... let us know please!


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## mrt_265

ενταξειευχαριστώ


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## Vagabond

I think your friend probably meant that it is not always necessary to use articles before nouns. Of course in some cases you should, for example if you want to add emphasis, but it's not like in English, where you absolutely need to have the/a/an before a noun. For example:

Είναι ωραία γυναίκα = she is a beautiful woman - no article there in Greek; in direct translation it would be "she is beautiful woman"

BUT:

Είδα μία ωραία γυναίκα = I saw a beautiful woman - you use μία/μια then.

I seriously hope some non native Greek speaker sees this and hopefully knows the rule (don't laugh - learners usually know rules better than natives, because natives just know when to use what instictively and there are so many rules they can't put their finger on).

In either case though, even if you use the article where a native speaker wouldn't, it is not really a big deal - the message gets accross just fine (I mean, it won't be confusing for someone who hears you). They just might think you are not a native Greek - no big deal. I will try to see if I can find a rule about that though, and I'll let you know if I do.


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## mrt_265

thanks VegabondI hope you will find something and let me know it


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## Vagabond

OK, back again, here's what I found on the absence of articles:

• In subject and object positions, noun phrases with a generic meaning are used without an article.
--example: _Τρώει ψάρι αλλά όχι χόρτα _

• In collocations with verbs like έχω, κάνω, παίζω, παίρνω the object noun usually appears without any article.
--example: 
_Έχω δίκιο και έχεις άδικο!_
_Παίζει χαρτιά κάθε Πρωτοχρονιά_
_Παίζει κιθάρα_

• The nouns which attribute a property to the subject or the object of the sentence are used without any article.
--example: _Αυτός είναι εξωγήινος (I imagine "αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι" would fit in this category)_

• In complex noun phrases consisting of two nouns, the second noun, which denotes the content, is always used without an article. The same applies for complex noun phrases expressing size, height, depth etc.
--example: 
_Μια παρέα *παιδιά* κάνουν βόλτα στην παραλία_
_Έχουν μαζί τους δύο λίτρα *νερό*, ένα πακέτο *μπισκότα* και ένα κουτί *τσίχλες*_

•No article is used in shop or company signs, names of streets, business cards, postal addresses etc. (even though we are dealing with proper nouns).
--example: _Έκθεση επίπλων_

•When the place of the article is occupied by a pronoun (ποιος, όποιος, τόσος, όσος), then no article is used.
--example: _Πόσα χρόνια θα ζήσουμε;_

I don't know if it helps... as a native Greek speaker, I feel that these rules don't really encompass all possibilities or cases, but then again I suppose it is a starting point, and colloquialisms will come in time.


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## mrt_265

Vagabond said:


> OK, back again, here's what I found on the absence of articles:
> 
> • In subject and object positions, noun phrases with a generic meaning are used without an article.
> --example: _Τρώει ψάρι αλλά όχι χόρτα _
> 
> • In collocations with verbs like έχω, κάνω, παίζω, παίρνω the object noun usually appears without any article.
> --example:
> _Έχω δίκιο και έχεις άδικο!_
> _Παίζει χαρτιά κάθε Πρωτοχρονιά_
> _Παίζει κιθάρα_
> 
> • The nouns which attribute a property to the subject or the object of the sentence are used without any article.
> --example: _Αυτός είναι εξωγήινος (I imagine "αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι" would fit in this category)_
> 
> • In complex noun phrases consisting of two nouns, the second noun, which denotes the content, is always used without an article. The same applies for complex noun phrases expressing size, height, depth etc.
> --example:
> _Μια παρέα *παιδιά* κάνουν βόλτα στην παραλία_
> _Έχουν μαζί τους δύο λίτρα *νερό*, ένα πακέτο *μπισκότα* και ένα κουτί *τσίχλες*_
> 
> •No article is used in shop or company signs, names of streets, business cards, postal addresses etc. (even though we are dealing with proper nouns).
> --example: _Έκθεση επίπλων_
> 
> •When the place of the article is occupied by a pronoun (ποιος, όποιος, τόσος, όσος), then no article is used.
> --example: _Πόσα χρόνια θα ζήσουμε;_
> 
> I don't know if it helps... as a native Greek speaker, I feel that these rules don't really encompass all possibilities or cases, but then again I suppose it is a starting point, and colloquialisms will come in time.


Yes,it is really useful I didn't know them except éxwthanks a lot


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## anthodocheio

Vagabond said:


> • The nouns which attribute a property to the subject or the object of the sentence are used without any article.
> --example: _Αυτός είναι εξωγήινος (I imagine "αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι" would fit in this category)_


 
I go for: "Αυτό είναι ένα καλό σπίτι" or, otherwise, "Αυτό το σπίτι είναι καλό". "Αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι" sounds like.. like you are not native or like "baby talk". "Είναι καλό αυτό το σπίτι" is OK.

"Αυτός είναι γιατρός" is OK. But it's also OK "Αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός". "Ο Γιάννης είναι γιατρός" definately goes without an article. 
"Είναι καλός γιατρός" is as correct as "Είναι ένας καλός γιατρός".

I'm afraid that I'm confusing you more...


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## mrt_265

den katalavainwWhich one is correct?I am really confused.I should say ''Αυτό είναι ένα καλό σπίτι'' or ''Αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι''?Or I can use both??


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## Vagabond

anthodocheio said:


> I go for: "Αυτό είναι ένα καλό σπίτι" or, otherwise, "Αυτό το σπίτι είναι καλό". "Αυτό είναι καλό σπίτι" sounds like.. like you are not native or like "baby talk". "Είναι καλό αυτό το σπίτι" is OK.
> 
> "Αυτός είναι γιατρός" is OK. But it's also OK "Αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός". "Ο Γιάννης είναι γιατρός" definately goes without an article.
> "Είναι καλός γιατρός" is as correct as "Είναι ένας καλός γιατρός".
> 
> I'm afraid that I'm confusing you more...


Well, seeing that I am indeed a native speaker, and too old for baby talk, I beg to differ. I suppose it would depend on the register or where the emphasis is. Replace καλό with ωραίο (because that would be a more likely adjective to use with "house", I only used καλό because that's what mrt_265's friend gave him), and I think you'll see what I mean.
(similar examples: αυτή είναι ωραία γυναίκα, αυτό είναι νόστιμο φαϊ, αυτοί είναι κακοί τρόποι κλπ.) Not saying that the article is in all cases weird to use, but as I said before, it would depend on the case.

As for the rest of your examples:
Αυτός είναι γιατρός is of course correct, because we have the phenomenon where a noun is being adjectified (used as an adjective), therefore no article is needed. Same with ο Γιάννης είναι γιατρός.

Αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός sounds weird to me, though grammatically correct. I can't think of an instance in real life dialogue where you'd actually say that; for example, if someone asked τί δουλειά κάνει αυτός (what his profession is), would you ever reply using the article ένας - αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός - ? 

I have the same problem with your last example - είναι ένας καλός γιατρός. Unless you mean "there is a good doctor", in the sense of υπάρχει ένας καλός γιατρός, I can not even imagine commenting on a specific doctor and saying "είναι ένας καλός γιατρός" and not sounding non-native... perhaps in an idiomatic emphatic expression, like είναι ένας καλός γιατρός αυτός...! - though in that case, you would usually get είναι ένας γιατρός αυτός...! (implying he is a super duper wow doctor, sort of).


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## anthodocheio

Vagabond said:


> I suppose it would depend on the register or where the emphasis is. Replace καλό with ωραίο (because that would be a more likely adjective to use with "house", I only used καλό because that's what mrt_265's friend gave him), and I think you'll see what I mean.
> (similar examples: αυτή είναι ωραία γυναίκα, αυτό είναι νόστιμο φαϊ, αυτοί είναι κακοί τρόποι κλπ.) Not saying that the article is in all cases weird to use, but as I said before, it would depend on the case.


I totally agree with you here.



> Αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός sounds weird to me, though grammatically correct. I can't think of an instance in real life dialogue where you'd actually say that; for example, if someone asked τί δουλειά κάνει αυτός (what his profession is), would you ever reply using the article ένας - αυτός είναι ένας γιατρός - ?


OK. Εδώ πάει ο εξωγήινος. "Τι είναι αυτό μαμά;" "Αυτός είναι ένας εξωγήινος παιδί μου..".



> I have the same problem with your last example - είναι ένας καλός γιατρός. Unless you mean "there is a good doctor", in the sense of υπάρχει ένας καλός γιατρός,


 No it's not that. It sounds OK to me "Ο Γιάννης είναι ένας καλός γιατρός". Am I the only one who thinks so?



> I can not even imagine commenting on a specific doctor and saying "είναι ένας καλός γιατρός" and not sounding non-native... perhaps in an idiomatic emphatic expression, like είναι ένας καλός γιατρός αυτός...! - though in that case, you would usually get είναι ένας γιατρός αυτός...! (implying he is a super duper wow doctor, sort of).


 I don't know...


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## ireney

Oh boy! We are going to confuse mrt_265 no end ! 

However it's not only our fault is it?  mrt_265 can you be a bit more specific in your request?

In general, and when the noun is preceded by an adjective the rules are as follows (some are the same whether there is or isn't an adjective before the noun) :

As a predicate (please note that the following are not set in stone; sometimes the way that they are used may vary):

No article = you describe a characteristic of the person

Ο Γιώργος είναι καλός γιατρός
George is a good doctor.
It works the same without and adj too and it just means that George is a good doctor.

Definite article = The characteristic is "singular"
Ο Γιώργος είναι ο καλός γιατρός
George is the good doctor
That means that the other doctors suck . Without an adjective it would mean that only George is a doctor and the rest of the company are doing something else

Indefinite article = More or less the same as with the absence of article. However there's a difference in emphasis.
Ο Γιώργος είναι ένας καλός γιατρός
George is a good doctor.
In this case the emphasis is not on what George is but in the adjective that goes with it.

So, for example:
A: So, I hear that George is a doctor? Any good?
B: Ναι, ο Γιώργος είναι καλός γιατρός.

A: I need to see a doctor but I can't choose whom to go to
Β: Ο Γιώργος είναι ο καλός γιατρός, πήγαινε σ' αυτόν (go to him)

A: I need to see a doctor but I can't choose whome to go to
B: Ο Γιώργος είναι ένας καλός γιατρός αλλά και ο Γιάννης είναι καλός.

So, up to now we have:
a) when giving the characteristic of something NOT caring about the rest of the group no article.
Αυτό είναι ωραίο σπίτι. This house is nice. I don't care if there are other nice houses, if it's nicer or uglier than others. This house is nice

b) when actually comparing a house and find that it is more/less of something than the rest of its category, definite article.
Αυτό είναι το ωραίο σπίτι. This is the nice house. Not the one on its left nor the one on its right.

c) when describing the characteristic of a place having in the back of your mind that there are others that share the same attribute, you use the indefinite article.
Αυτό είναι ένα ωραίο σπίτι. This is a nice house. I single it out from the rest of the houses which are not nice but I am aware that there are other nice houses too..

Let's take the extraterrestrial example:

Αυτός είναι εξωγήινος.
Just a characteristic. He is an alien.
Αυτός είναι ο εξωγήινος.
The only one that made it to earth probably
Αυτός είναι ένας εξωγήινος.
Just a characteristic, shared by the rest of the bunch giving our nasty neighbour an anal probing as we speak.

It work the same without an article though
Αυτός είναι σκύλος
This is a dog.
Not a cat, a dog.
Αυτός είναι ο σκύλος.
This is the dog, and there's the cat and that little one over there no, NO it's not a monkey it's my child you rude person NO, it doesn't want a banana
Αυτός είναι ένας σκύλος.
This is a dog belonging to the same category as Nora the dog with too much energy and friendliness that resides in my place. Let's hope if I smile at it it won't jump on me.


For anything else you might want to give us more details


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## anthodocheio

Αχ βρε Ειρήνη! Με έκανες και γέλασα!!!


> NO it's not a monkey it's my child you rude person NO, it doesn't want a banana


 
Δεν ξέρω, για έναν ανεξήγητο λόγο η έλλειψη άρθρου στο παράδειγμα με το σπίτι (και μόνο), μου κάνει σε "Α***** τουρίστα αυγό να φάει τέλει". Ήθελα να το πω και χθες αλλά ντράπηκα..

Εγώ ΔΕΝ θα έλεγα "Αυτό είναι ωραίο σπίτι". "Είναι ωραίο σπίτι", ναι,   χωρίς το "αυτό".


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## jaxlarus

anthodocheio said:


> Εγώ ΔΕΝ θα έλεγα "Αυτό είναι ωραίο σπίτι". "Είναι ωραίο σπίτι", ναι,   χωρίς το "αυτό".



...Εχτός κι αν η έμφαση ήταν στο *αυτό*: 
*Αυτό *είναι ωραίο σπίτι, μάλιστα! Όχι  η τρώγλη που μου αγόρασες, αχαΐρευτε!

Μrt, my opinion is that you should think Turkish, at least through your early stages in learning Greek. The use of the indefinite article (*ένας, μία, ένα*) is rather the same as with *bir*:

Bu ev güzel(dir)
Denizin karşısında güzel *bir *evleri var

Whenever you use *-i hali* in Turkish, use the definite article (*ο, η, το*). If the word is *yalın hal*, omit it: 

Balık sevmem
Balığın*ı* neden yemiyorsun?
Çok kitap okudu
Verdiğim kitab*ı* okumadı
Evimizin yanında okul var

*Mod note*: Mrt's question doesn't really concern *genders*. It's rather about the (*indefinite*)* articles*.


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## mrt_265

ενταξει ευχαριστώLuckily there is a special forum for greek learners.It really helps meI hope I'll improve my Greek...δεν ξέρω if it will happen


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