# run small/fit smaller to size



## Gabriel Malheiros

Hi, there

What's the difference between saying a piece of clothing "runs small" and "fits smaller to size"?

Thank you


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## dermott

They mean the same thing. Smaller than the same size in another brand or label.


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## Gabriel Malheiros

dermott said:


> They mean the same thing. Smaller than the same size in another brand or label.


So if i weat a L, should i buy a XL?

and "fit one size larger", is it the opposite?


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## dermott

Yes, if you are looking to buy a brand known to run small. The L size would be smaller, you would buy an XL.

I assume the opposite terminology applies, I don't know.


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## Egmont

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> ... What's the difference between saying a piece of clothing "runs small" and "fits smaller to size"? ...


In American English, the difference is that (of these two) we would only say "runs small." "Fits smaller to size," in AE, is meaningless.


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## Packard

I usually see three options:  runs true to size; runs small; runs big as an addendum.

Within the description you might see:  "runs true to size", "generous fit" or "order one size larger than normal".


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## london calling

Egmont said:


> In American English, the difference is that (of these two) we would only say "runs small." "Fits smaller to size," in AE, is meaningless.


_Fits smaller to size_ is meaningless to me too.


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## Gabriel Malheiros

Egmont said:


> In American English, the difference is that (of these two) we would only say "runs small." "Fits smaller to size," in AE, is meaningless.





Packard said:


> I usually see three options:  runs true to size; runs small; runs big as an addendum.
> 
> Within the description you might see:  "runs true to size", "generous fit" or "order one size larger than normal".





london calling said:


> _Fits smaller to size_ is meaningless to me too.



What about "runs one size smaller/larger"?


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## Packard

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> What about "runs one size smaller/larger"?


 You would probably see, "Order one size larger than usual".


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## Gabriel Malheiros

Packard said:


> You would probably see, "Order one size larger than usual".


But don't you say "run one size smaller/larger"? Like "run small/large"?


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## london calling

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> What about "runs one size smaller/larger"?


That to me is incomprehensible.


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## PaulQ

I'm with london calling: 


Gabriel Malheiros said:


> What's the difference between saying a piece of clothing "runs small" and "fits smaller to size"?


Iin BE, neither of these is (a) meaningful or (ii) idiomatic.


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## Gabriel Malheiros

london calling said:


> That to me is incomprehensible.





PaulQ said:


> I'm with london calling:
> 
> Iin BE, neither of these is (a) meaningful or (ii) idiomatic.


What would you say then? "Fit one size larger/smaller"? "


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## london calling

I don't know, Gab. I don't know what you mean, so I can't tell you how I would say it.


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## PaulQ

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> What would you say then? "Fit one size larger/smaller"? "


"This dress is a size 14 but will fit [someone/a woman] one/a size smaller."
"This dress is a *small* [size] 14 *and* will fit a 12." (Women's sizes go in twos.)


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## Gabriel Malheiros

london calling said:


> I don't know, Gab. I don't know what you mean, so I can't tell you how I would say it.





PaulQ said:


> "This dress is a size 14 but will fit [someone/a woman] one/a size smaller."
> "This dress is a *small* [size] 14 *and* will fit a 12." (Women's sizes go in twos.)




I meant that : What does it mean when jean sizes 'run small'?
What does "fits one size small" mean?

So you would say "fit someone one(two,three) size(s) smaller/larger"??? Is that right or not?

Thank you, Paul and London Calling


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## PaulQ

"fit someone one(two,three) size(s) smaller/larger"


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## Packard

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> But don't you say "run one size smaller/larger"? Like "run small/large"?



Note:  These descriptors only became necessary with the boon on mail order purchases.  In the olden days we used to try things on to see if they fit. 

I am going from memory only.  I have no easy way to find an example, but a few minutes on the Internet shows these:

Here is a British example:  Size Guide – Sirenlondon
_
Whenever we determine that a garment "runs large, please size down", or "runs small, please size up", we have taken into consideration each specific measurement across all sizes. What that means is that if an item is labeled "runs large," that means it can fit up one equivalent size (for example, a 12 fits up to a 14).

_
And this from a USA based NIKE store:  The Converse Chuck Taylor All Star High Top Unisex Shoe.

_Runs a half size large_


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## Gabriel Malheiros

Packard said:


> Note:  These descriptors only became necessary with the boon on mail order purchases.  In the olden days we used to try things on to see if they fit.
> 
> I am going from memory only.  I have no easy way to find an example, but a few minutes on the Internet shows these:
> 
> Here is a British example:  Size Guide – Sirenlondon
> _
> Whenever we determine that a garment "runs large, please size down", or "runs small, please size up", we have taken into consideration each specific measurement across all sizes. What that means is that if an item is labeled "runs large," that means it can fit up one equivalent size (for example, a 12 fits up to a 14).
> 
> _
> And this from a USA based NIKE store:  The Converse Chuck Taylor All Star High Top Unisex Shoe.
> 
> _Runs a half size large_


Thank you, Packward. So do you say "run a size .." in the US? But do you say small or smaller? "Large/Big or larger/bigger"? "Run two sizes small/large"?

Thank you for all, Packward


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## Packard

Gabriel Malheiros said:


> Thank you, Packward. So do you say "run a size .." in the US? But do you say small or smaller? "Large/Big or larger/bigger"? "Run two sizes small/large"?
> 
> Thank you for all, Packward



I think this is a stylistic choice that you are allowed to make on your own.  There does not seem to be any rule on this as long as the meaning is clear.


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## Ashraful Haque

dermott said:


> They mean the same thing. Smaller than the same size in another brand or label.


So it would be incorrect to say "I'd like to return this, it runs small" if I buy an medium sized shirt instead of a large one by mistake. Since it wasn't manufactured small, it was rather my mistake. 
If so, what do I say? I took a smaller size by mistake?


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## suzi br

I would understand both of your originals in the context of internet shopping reviews. It’s a new field and the terminology is emerging, there isn’t necessarily a “set” way of expressing these ideas.
As Packard says we used to try things on. 

I assume the people finding it all incomprehensible simply don’t use the context in which this need arises and these phrases are commonly used.


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## Packard

Ashraful Haque said:


> So it would be incorrect to say "I'd like to return this, it runs small" if I buy an medium sized shirt instead of a large one by mistake. Since it wasn't manufactured small, it was rather my mistake.
> If so, what do I say? I took a smaller size by mistake?


People are reluctant to admit their own error. They will either opt for a term that blames the vendor or is blame-neutral. 

You could write, “Correct fit is guaranteed. If it does not fit you may exchange for correct fit or return for a refund”.


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## Ashraful Haque

suzi br said:


> I would understand both of your originals in the context of internet shopping reviews. It’s a new field and the terminology is emerging, there isn’t necessarily a “set” way of expressing these ideas.
> As Packard says we used to try things on.
> 
> I assume the people finding it all incomprehensible simply don’t use the context in which this need arises and these phrases are commonly used.


Say I tried out a shirt and it's a bit small. After coming out of the changing room can I say "I need a bigger size, it runs a bit small?"


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## london calling

Ashraful Haque said:


> Say I tried out a shirt and it's a bit small. After coming out of the changing room can I say "I need a bigger size, it runs a bit small  ?"


It* is* a bit small.


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## Roxxxannne

I agree with london calling.  For one shirt, I'd say "It is a bit small."
I would only use "It runs a bit small" if I were referring to the brand's idea of sizing for all their shirts.
Say I normally wear a medium-sized T shirt, in several different brands.  I go into a store, or I order a medium shirt online, and when I try it on, it's too small.  Then I might ask the salesperson (if I'm in the store) "Does this brand run small?  I usually wear a medium but this medium doesn't fit."
In that case, though, I might just say "This is a bit small." Then the salesperson might say "Yes, those do seem to run small."

(EDITED) I'd be more likely to use 'runs a bit small' on an online review of a purchase, where one offers advice to other buyers.  "I normally wear a medium, but these Roxxxy Tshirts didn't fit me well.  This brand seems to run a bit small."


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## london calling

It's worth noting that 'runs a bit small' is never said in BE.


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## suzi br

london calling said:


> It's worth noting that 'runs a bit small' is never said in BE.



It’s worth noting I don’t agree with this. 

It sounds very ordinary to me.

Maybe you don’t shop much at all, on-line or otherwise.


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## london calling

I shop a lot, on-line and not. I've never heard it in my life.


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## Packard

If I came out of the dressing room and the sales clerk asked, "Do you like it?"  I would reply, "It was too small." At which time I would expect the sales clerk to look at the garment and say, "This is a medium.  Would you like to try on a large?".

I would not find it necessary to say "it runs small".  I would simply state that it was too small (on me).  The "whys" of the "too small" are irrelevant.  Only how to resolve the size issue is relevant.


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## Roxxxannne

It's probably in part a body-image thing that women have to cope with.


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## Packard

Roxxxannne said:


> It's probably in part a body-image thing that women have to cope with.


Men don't have to cope with body image, eh Ms. Manners?


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## Roxxxannne

Packard said:


> Men don't have to cope with body image, eh Ms. Manners?


I didn't say 'only women.'


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## Packard

Roxxxannne said:


> I didn't say 'only women.'


Ah, hiding behind the cloak of ambiguity.  Nicely done.


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## Roxxxannne

Packard said:


> Ah, hiding behind the cloak of ambiguity.  Nicely done.


My purveyor of cloaks of ambiguity has been shipping styles that run a bit small these days, I'm afraid.


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## kentix

Two situations:

1. You are trying on one single garment and commenting on it.

_This shirt *is* a bit small (for me). _

It doesn't fit your body. You need a bigger size.

2. The salesperson is referring to an entire set of clothing from a specific company. They are not referring to a single, specific garment.

_These shirts *run* small._

"Run" indicates a general condition. It's a general condition of these shirts from this company that if you compare them to similar shirts from other companies that are marked with the identical size these shirts are smaller.

One shirt can't "run smaller". Only any entire line of shirts can run smaller than another line because run is referring to an average and only multiple shirts have an average that can be compared.

In situation 1 you need a bigger shirt, no matter what the label says.

But situation 2 can be an explanation for situation 1.

If you normally wear a shirt labeled "medium" and therefore you picked out a medium to try on and, surprisingly, it didn't fit the salesperson could explain why.

"Those shirts (from that company) run small."

Every shirt labeled "Medium" made by that company would match (or be closer to) the size labeled "Small" by other companies. It's not just one shirt that got mislabeled, it's that their labeling system is different and all their shirts are like that. You need to buy a "Large" from that company to get a shirt the same size as a "Medium" from another company.


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## Ashraful Haque

kentix said:


> Two situations:
> 
> 1. You are trying on one single garment and commenting on it.
> 
> _This shirt *is* a bit small (for me). _
> 
> It doesn't fit your body. You need a bigger size.
> 
> 2. The salesperson is referring to an entire set of clothing from a specific company. They are not referring to a single, specific garment.
> 
> _These shirts *run* small._
> 
> "Run" indicates a general condition. It's a general condition of these shirts from this company that if you compare them to similar shirts from other companies that are marked with the identical size these shirts are smaller.
> 
> One shirt can't "run smaller". Only any entire line of shirts can run smaller than another line because run is referring to an average and only multiple shirts have an average that can be compared.
> 
> In situation 1 you need a bigger shirt, no matter what the label says.
> 
> But situation 2 can be an explanation for situation 1.
> 
> If you normally wear a shirt labeled "medium" and therefore you picked out a medium to try on and, surprisingly, it didn't fit the salesperson could explain why.
> 
> "Those shirts (from that company) run small."
> 
> Every shirt labeled "Medium" made by that company would match (or be closer to) the size labeled "Small" by other companies. It's not just one shirt that got mislabeled, it's that their labeling system is different and all their shirts are like that. You need to buy a "Large" from that company to get a shirt the same size as a "Medium" from another company.


Thank you for this amazing explanation. I have one question. Do we say a bigger size or a larger size?


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## kentix

Either one is possible.


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## Ashraful Haque

Packard said:


> If I came out of the dressing room and the sales clerk asked, "Do you like it?"  I would reply, "It was too small." At which time I would expect the sales clerk to look at the garment and say, "This is a medium.  Would you like to try on a large?".
> 
> I would not find it necessary to say "it runs small".  I would simply state that it was too small (on me).  The "whys" of the "too small" are irrelevant.  Only how to resolve the size issue is relevant.


Do we say *'a'* medium and also without saying 'size' at the end? For example:
"I wear a medium/large/small." Instead of "I wear medium size?"


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## Ashraful Haque

kentix said:


> Either one is possible.


I also heard this from a Canadian teacher- "I need this in a bigger size."


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## kentix

Yes, "I (usually) wear a medium" is normal. "I wear medium size" is unusual.

If the salesperson asks you, "What size do you take?" that means "What size do you generally wear?" (But you should try it on in case it runs small. )


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