# in dieser Republik sei das Scheitern von Anfang an angelegt gewesen



## Stibanez

Hello,

I am seeking the best translation for the underlined portion of this passage from a history of the Weimar Republic:

Die hier [in Weimar] produzierte Verfassung sei am bösen Ende schuld und in dieser Republik sei das Scheitern von Anfang an angelegt gewesen.

My translation: The Constitution produced here [in Weimar] is said to be responsible for the bad ending [of the Weimar Republic] and the failure of this Republic was ordained from the beginning.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions for improving my translation!


----------



## Schlabberlatz

> 5. (entwerfen) design; (Garten, Straße etc) lay out; (Roman etc) structure; (Kanal) cut, dig; (errichten) (Lager) pitch, make;
> eine breit angelegte Kampagne a broad (oder widely-pitched) campaign,
> anlegen - Wörterbuch Deutsch-Englisch - WordReference.com


I think you could say that the failure was a consequence of the design (or the layout?) of the republic / the constitution. I can't think of a word by word translation, but maybe you as a native speaker of English have a good idea  Normally, it's not necessary to have a word by word translation.


----------



## Stibanez

Thanks for your input, Schlabberlatz.  In that light, perhaps this is my best translation: "failure was designed into this Republic from the outset." Comments anyone?


----------



## Demiurg

Hmmm, "designed into" sounds like intention to me. The design was faulty, but not intentional.


----------



## Frieder

Maybe you could say _failure was in the genes of this republic_.


----------



## JClaudeK

I would say

"failure was *inherent* to this Republic from the outset."

Gekreuzt mit Frieder


----------



## Demiurg

JClaudeK said:


> I would say
> 
> "failure was *inherent* to this Republic from the outset."


----------



## elroy

I don't think "inherent" works here.

Maybe "was doomed to fail"?


----------



## Kajjo

Suggestion:

_Das Scheitern war von Anfang an angelegt gewesen.
From begin on, the failure was embodied in the consitution._


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> Maybe "was doomed to fail"?


That doesn't convey the central statement that its failure was rooted in the fabric of the republic itself.


----------



## elroy

What does that _mean_, though?  It's obviously a metaphor, and I figured "doomed to fail" (or something similar) was the intended meaning.


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> What does that _mean_, though?  It's obviously a metaphor, and I figured "doomed to fail" (or something similar) was the intended meaning.


One can be "doomed" for internal or external reasons. The core statement of the sentence is that failure of the Weimar Republic was rooted in original design flaws in the republic and its institutions itself rather than being caused by external reasons. This is not expressed by your suggestion.


----------



## elroy

I think in the absence of competing contextual information that's how "doomed to fail" would be understood.  But for extra clarity you could add something like "due to its very nature."


----------



## JClaudeK

elroy said:


> I don't think "inherent" works here.


Please, could you explain why?

According to this definition of _inherent = 'existing as a natural or basic part of s.t.', _I thought it could fit.

"das Scheitern war von Anfang an in dieser Republik angelegt" = als Anlage vorhanden

_
_


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> I think in the absence of competing contextual information that's how "doomed to fail" would be understood.  But for extra clarity you could add something like "due to its very nature."


I am not a big fan of relying how things "would be understood". Well, I think we had this discussion before. With the addition it would be clear.

But I still don't like it as a metaphor because it has the connotation of a God or other outside authority that "dooms" it. _Is doomed to fail_ translates _ist zum Scheitern verurteilt_. But _ist das Scheitern von Anfang an angelegt gewesen_ is a different metaphor. I would never consider it interchangeable with _ist von Anfang an zum Scheitern verurteilt gewesen_.


----------



## elroy

JClaudeK said:


> Please, could you explain why?


 Failure is an outcome, not a characteristic.  I would use "inherent" with characteristics. 





berndf said:


> I am not a big fan of relying how things "would be understood".


 I meant that this would be the default meaning and that any other reading would need to be justified by context. 





> But I still don't like it as a metaphor because it has the connotation of a God or other outside authority that "dooms" it.


 I wouldn't say that's the case.  "Doomed" as a past participle is used very broadly and loosely in English, typically with no implication of an outside power or authority causing the dooming.

Perhaps something closer to the original metaphor would be "right from the outset failure was *woven into* the republic's very *fabric*," but I'm not entirely satisfied with this because again, failure is an outcome not a characteristic.


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> but I'm not entirely satisfied with this because again, failure is an outcome not a characteristic.


Since this is a metaphoric use, I think it is alright. But anyhow, since this objection can be applied to the original German sentence as well, we are on the safe side.


----------



## bearded

elroy said:


> I don't think "inherent" works here.


What about ''intrinsic''?
_Failure was intrinsic to this republic from the very start._


----------



## elroy

I have the same issues with that as I have with "inherent."


----------



## Perseas

Maybe, "sei das Scheitern von Anfang an angelegt gewesen" can be rendered by "stillborn"/"failing from the start".


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> I have the same issues with that as I have with "inherent."


Yet the topic here is to translate the German sentence and not to contradict it. The point of contention is this:


elroy said:


> Failure is an outcome, not a characteristic.


The German sentence does indeed describe it as a characteristic.


----------



## Thersites

The expression that comes to mind is: "doomed from the start".


----------



## deltron

If I didn't have to literally translate it, here are some possibilities:

Die hier [in Weimar] produzierte Verfassung sei am bösen Ende schuld und in dieser Republik sei das Scheitern von Anfang an angelegt gewesen. 

The republic was destined to fail (from its very inception)
The republic was predestined to fail
The republic never had the possibility to succeed 
The constitution made it impossible for the republic to succeed from the very onset

@Perseas , the stillborn version doesn't really work for me

@Thomas(CH) , I also agree with that rendering, and that was discussed towards the top of the thread (you have to scroll back to 2016   )


----------



## Schlabberlatz

"Its failure was built-in" 
"It was doomed to fail due to its inherent flaws"  (A kind of combination of elroy's and JCK's suggestions.)


----------



## Thersites

deltron said:


> @Thomas(CH) , I also agree with that rendering, and that was discussed towards the top of the thread (you have to scroll back to 2016   )


Oh wow. The OP must have retired by now


----------

