# pauvre mec



## riri

*  Hi Everyone,   *

*Please help me... one of my French friends said that "pauvre mec" means the same as "f*ck off!" but i don't understand why.   *

*I literally thought it meant "poor guy" like if someone is working hard on their studies and you are sympathetic to them...*

*Help!!  *

*Riri*


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## kertek

It's not quite as strong as that, but yes, "pauvre mec" or "pauvre type" is used pejoratively to mean "bastard". If you want to say "poor guy!" you have to say "le pauvre!"


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## riri

Thank u so much ... ahhhh my poor French friend... So u say "le pauvre?"

Oula!  

Merci, 

Riri


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## pgf

In British English, "pauvre mec" might also be rendered as "poor bastard"; one can also say: "You poor bastard!" or simply "Poor Bastard!"


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## fpg

kertek said:
			
		

> It's not quite as strong as that, but yes, "pauvre mec" or "pauvre type" is used pejoratively to mean "bastard". If you want to say "poor guy!" you have to say "le pauvre!"


 
Hi kertek,

Just for clarity could you answer these few points:

Does the phrase "pauvre fille" exist? If so, is this as pejorative as "pauvre mec". Finally you mention that "le pauvre!" can mean "poor guy!" but how would one say "poor gal!". I will make a guess at this being perhaps "petite pauvre!".

Thanks.


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## Thomas1

kertek said:
			
		

> It's not quite as strong as that, but yes, "pauvre mec" or "pauvre type" is used pejoratively to mean "bastard". If you want to say "poor guy!" you have to say "le pauvre!"


Could the difference be in the article and/or in intonation, please?
un pauvre mec - a poor guy
for instance shouted: pauvre mec - (you) bastard

Thanks,
Thomas


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## carolineR

“c'est une pauvre fille” is very pejorative indeed. it means the girl in question has a good excuse for being so useless (she's handicapped, or comes from a terrible background which accounts for her being unable to cope


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## paulvial

carolineR said:
			
		

> “c'est une pauvre fille” is very pejorative indeed. it means the girl in question has a good excuse for being so useless (she's handicapped, or comes from a terrible background which accounts for her being unable to cope


hello Caroline 
I am not sure i agree with you, 
pauvre fille/ pauvre garçon/pauvre femme / pauvre homme  are not so much pejorative but either caring or perhaps sometimes condescending 
oh le pauvre homme, il n'arrive pas à joindre les 2 bouts ! 
this is not pejorative , the personne saying this is showing compassion 

ma pauvre dame, il vous fallait y penser avant de passer la commande ! 
in this case, and depending on the tone of voice it could be argued that it is a bit condescending , but it certainly is not inpolite, and said in a nice tone , could even be construed as friendly 

pauvre mec , par contre , especially uttered in a threatening tone , is taken as an insult , but i often pick up the meaning as being closer to "stupid, or moron "  so not quite as strong as f***k off  in my opinion 

hope it helps


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## ed800uk

Do you think that the usage of _pauvre _here is close to _pathetic _or _pitiful_?  Check meaning 2 of:
http://www.answers.com/pitiful&r=67


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## carolineR

as usual, it all depends on the tone or the context
personally I wouldn't like to be called "pauvre fille”
but paul is right, the person could be showing compassion (who likes to be pitied, though ?)
"ma pov dame" is condescending indeed, but also a different phrase from “pauvre fille”.


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## paulvial

carolineR said:
			
		

> as usual, it all depends on the tone or the context
> personally I wouldn't like to be called "pauvre fille”
> but paul is right, the person could be showing compassion (who likes to be pitied, though ?)
> "ma pov dame" is condescending indeed, but also a different phrase from “pauvre fille”.


désolé d'insister , mais je vois la même chose avec "pauvre fille " 
pauvre fille / pauvre gamine 

_*ma pauvre fille,*_ tu ne vas quand même pas sortir habillée comme ça ! 
could be the mother talking to her daughter, begging her daughter to make herself pretty to go out 

_*pauvre fille/ pauvre gamine *_, elle n'a même pas de quoi manger ! 
compassion again
bien sûr tout dépend non seulement du contexte, mais aussi du ton sur lequel ces expressions son proférées


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## carolineR

_désolé d'insister , mais je vois la même chose avec "pauvre fille " 
pauvre fille / pauvre gamine 

ma pauvre fille, tu ne vas quand même pas sortir habillée comme ça ! 
could be the mother talking to her daughter, begging her daughter to make herself pretty to go out 

pauvre fille/ pauvre gamine , elle n'a même pas de quoi manger ! 
compassion again
_
tout cela est vrai bien sûr mais tout dépend non seulement du contexte, mais aussi du ton sur lequel ces expressions son proférées, personnellement, je le ressens plus comme "on ne tire pas sur les ambulances”


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## paulvial

carolineR said:
			
		

> _désolé d'insister , mais je vois la même chose avec "pauvre fille "
> pauvre fille / pauvre gamine
> 
> ma pauvre fille, tu ne vas quand même pas sortir habillée comme ça !
> could be the mother talking to her daughter, begging her daughter to make herself pretty to go out
> 
> pauvre fille/ pauvre gamine , elle n'a même pas de quoi manger !
> compassion again
> _
> tout cela est vrai bien sûr mais tout dépend non seulement du contexte, mais aussi du ton sur lequel ces expressions son proférées, personnellement, je le ressens plus comme "on ne tire pas sur les ambulances”


  voilà une expression colorée   
je ne sais pas ce que vous voulez dire !   serait-ce l'équivalent de "don't shoot the messenger !   ??? 
si c'est le cas, je suis navré que vous le preniez ainsi , car mes commentaires ne sont pas une attaque sur quiconque , je voulais juste clarifier un point , et mon point de vue ne l'emporte pas necessairement sur le vôtre . J'ajoutais un commentaire au votre , et c'est au membre qui a posé la question de décider si on l'a aidé 
je continue d'apprécier vos commentaires et je vous prie de m'excuser si je vous ai offensé , ce qui était loin d'être mon intention


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## LV4-26

fpg said:
			
		

> but how would one say "poor gal!". I will make a guess at this being perhaps "petite pauvre!".


 Not far : it would be _pauvre petite !
_Likely to be said by a middle-aged or old adult about (or to) a girl, say, between 0 and 25.
However, it's got some kind of Southern sound to it. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it in Marseille or somewhere.. and with the appropriate accent of course.

Back to _pauvre mec_, I can't imagine it being shouted. I think it's kind of just dropped from between one's teeth. And  yes, I think it's close to _pitiful_ in the sense suggested by ed800uk.

I've made a list from the most to the least derogatory.

_Pauvre mec_ is definitely derogatory and meant to be insulting. I think _you pitiful idiot/bastard_ would be a close equivalent (provided it were somewhere near idiomatic in English??).


_Pauvre fille_ is ambiguous but leaning toward the pejorative meaning.
_Pauvre garçon_ remains a little ambiguous but leaning towards the "positive" meaning _(poor guy_)

_Pauvre gars_ (albeit its close relation with _garçon _above) almost certainly means _poor guy_
_Pauvre enfant_ and _pauvre petit(e)_ definitely mean _poor child/poor gal....

_Therefore, for many of them, only context and intonation make the difference.

EDIT : je vois que la discussion a avancé pendant que je rédigeais laborieusement mon message. Même s'il fait doublon avec d'autres, j'espère au moins que ce post pourra faire office de "bilan provisoire".


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## carolineR

pas offensée du tout, paul :
on ne tire pas sur les ambulances veut dire qu'il est inutile d'achever quelqu'un de déjà bien atteint / inutile d'en rajouter


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## LV4-26

Just a precision.
I said that _pauvre mec_ (unlike _pauvre gars_, e.g.) was definitely insulting. 
That doesn't mean that "_mec_" (by itself) is always pejorative, far from it.
_Un brave mec_ = _a nice/good bloke.

_In French, things are often more complicated than you think


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## KaRiNe_Fr

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Not far : it would be _pauvre petite !_
> Likely to be said by a middle-aged or old adult about (or to) a girl, say, between 0 and 25.
> However, it's got some kind of Southern sound to it. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it in Marseille or somewhere.. and with the appropriate accent of course. [...]


As I'm invited to react... 
Be careful "une petite" (without "pauvre") is also merely a nice looking girl between 15 and 25 here, especially when said with envy by an over-aged men. 
We can say "la pitchoune" in just an affectionate way. 
But, "quelle pauvre fille !" is really similar to "quel pauvre mec !". Nothing to do with "la pauvre petite !", full of affection.


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## LV4-26

Just a few examples from our rich national patrimony 

Pauvre gars
C'était un pauv' gars qui s'app'lait Armand
L'avait pas d'papa, l'avait pas d'maman

Pauvre mec
Mes parents chéris
Ont de galantes prises de bec
Ils se traitent en langage fleuri
De crème d'andouille et de pauvre mec

Pauvre fille 
C'était un gamin, un gosse de Paris,
Pour famille il n'avait qu' sa mère
Une pauvre fille aux grands yeux rougis,
Par les chagrins et la misère


Enjoy!


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## fpg

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Just a few examples from our rich national patrimony
> 
> Pauvre gars
> C'était un pauv' gars qui s'app'lait Armand
> L'avait pas d'papa, l'avait pas d'maman...


 
Ouah, excellente recherche LV4-26 et merci de votre réponse .


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## Mec Mortel

Depending on the way you are wanting to express poor man or poor dude.. I would have to further research if it has any derogatory meaning.


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## LARSAY

_Pauvre mec, _definitely an insult, translates in English by _jerk_


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## Mec Mortel

LARSAY
Merci beaucoup pour votre aide.  Tu es un bon Mec!!!!


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## MNB

Paulvial is absolutely right, the meaning of "pauvre mec" or "pauvre fille" depends on the context/tone of the conversation. It can be pejorative and means "poor/little bastard" but it can also be "poor dude" if you say "LE pauvre mec" or "LE pauvre gars/garcon". It's the same for "pauvre fille". Notice that "mec" is slang and "fille" can be very familiar in general. In fact with "pauvre type" you can't go wrong, it definitely means "bastard" (And depending on the tone it could even be as strong as "motherf***er"), I don't care how you say it, it's an insult. 
If you use "pauvre" with "homme/monsieur/garcon" or "femme/dame/fille", most of the time it's more condescending or empathizing.  In fact, I don't even think it's pejorative in those context, even if you sound pissed off.

Anyway, hope my two cents help at all...

PEACE!


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## fpg

Hi MNB,

It was on the 14th May 2006 when I responded to this particular thread and posed a further question myself which was:



> ...how would one say "poor gal!". I will make a guess at this being perhaps "petite pauvre!".


 
I _only_ had to wait for over two years  for a complete answer and happily it was a very good and thorough reply too. Thus your "_two cents_" were very welcome - sans doute.

Thanks.


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## MNB

fpg said:


> Hi MNB,
> 
> It was on the 14th May 2006 when I responded to this particular thread and posed a further question myself which was:
> 
> 
> 
> I _only_ had to wait for over two years  for a complete answer and happily it was a very good and thorough reply too. Thus your "_two cents_" were very welcome - sans doute.
> 
> Thanks.





Hahaha! You are very welcome. It's only now that I realize it was that long ago.


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## fpg

Hello,

I have just watched the 1963 Louis Malle film << Le Feu Follet >> based on the novel La Rochelle by Pierre Drieu (this film is widely considered to be the finest of Malle's early work). On several occasions throughout the film, the main character played by Maurice Ronet was referred to as _pauvre_. Following this thread it was very clear to me how to interpret when it was being used pejoratively and when it was being used affectionately; via his various encounters with the other characters.

So finally, for clarity of meaning, it is vital to understand the context and tone of the conversation.

With reference to the film - it's from a fabulous DVD box set of four early Louis Malle films which I cannot praise enough! I have supplied a link to Amazon for those of you who may wish to check it out.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Louis-Malle...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215755350&sr=1-2 The Louis Malle Collection - Vol. 1.

A masterpiece of french cinema.


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## jmlem1

he's a load


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## Bonjules

Hola,
I thought it was 'pauvre con' . Is one stronger than the other?


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## jmlem1

ûn pauvre mec peut être "riche" mais con ...


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