# Shit and bugger!



## Rotty

Ciao a tutti, 

mi scuso per l'espressione poco gentile, ma capita di dover tradurre anche queste. Il contesto è una telefonata tra sorelle. La prima dice alla seconda che nel weekend avrà molto da lavorare. La seconda le ricorda che sarebbero dovute andare a trovare i loro genitori. La prima, essendosene dimenticata, esclama "Shit and bugger!". Secondo voi, posso semplicemente tradurlo con "Cazzo!" oppure "Merda!"? 

Grazie!


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## Anja.Ann

Ciao, Rotty  

Non puoi evitare una traduzione quasi letterale, presumo?   Un semplice  "Vaff! Me n'ero scordata!" potrebbe andare bene?


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## london calling

Io in italiano direi proprio o _cazzo!_ oppure _merda_!|per rendere _shit and bugger_!. Sì, lo so, non sono una signora!

Ma in effetti andrebbe bene qualsiasi espressione del genere.... Rotty, tu che cosa diresti in italiano in una situazione del genere? Quale sarebbe la tua "reazione" verbale?


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## Holymaloney

Ciao !
Io andrei con un semplice '..._*merda! Me ne ero scordata*_...'
@Rotty, devi mettere i warning signs nel tuo post 
@Ciao AA ...e buona settimana!   

EDIT: yooo hoooo LC luv! Hugs


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## Rotty

Vicendo a Siena direi "Maremma maiala!" ma è troppo regionale, perciò anche io sarei orientata a "Cazzo!" dato che il testo che sto traducendo è pieno di queste espressioni gergali e volgari. Grazie di nuovo a tutti per il confronto sempre utilissimo!


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## Rotty

Oddio, scusate! Tra tutte le regole del forum me sono dimenticata! Mi scuso ancora...


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## Anja.Ann

Ciao, Holy!   

Mi è venuto in mente un innocente "porca trottola!"  ... ma temo che non regga l'immediatezza dell'espressione originale!

Una buona e bella settimana anche a te!


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## You little ripper!

Anja.Ann said:


> Mi è venuto in mente un innocente "porca trottola!"


I like the sound of that one, Annie; I can't wait for the opportunity to use it!


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## Anja.Ann

Charles Costante said:


> I like the sound of that one, Annie; I can't wait for the opportunity to use it!



 Charlie, dear, ciao!  Oh, you have to be in the right mood to use it!  

Oh, be patient with me!  ...  Have a great day!


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## Tegs

Anja.Ann said:


> Mi è venuto in mente un innocente "porca trottola!"



Bello! Comunque, shit and bugger non sono *per niente* innocenti  Allora meglio cazzo, minchia o qualcos'altro che non sia innocente


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## ginestre

I don't think you can use only one word in the Italian: the original expression chains two separate expletives together, as if to underline her deliberate choice to swear. It's not just a casual '_Ah, shit_!' that slipped out unthinkingly, so I don't  think _'Cazzo!_' alone does it justice. 
I also feel that the use of _'bugger' _as an expletive ejaculation is a particularly regional English (ie, not even British) usage- am I right, fellow natives from other shores?


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## london calling

ginestre said:


> II also feel that the use of _'bugger' _as an expletive ejaculation is a particularly regional English (ie, not even British) usage- am I right, fellow natives from other shores?


Is it? I'm from London - it's very common there as an expletive ejaculation and two very good friends of mine (one's Irish and the other's Scottish) use it all the time, as did my my paternal grandfather, who was born in Burnley.. Where are you from, Ginestre?

NB. North Americans don't use it, I know that. The Australians do, if I remember rightly. I've never heard it in Africa (but to be honest I never really took that much notice, so I'd better shut up!)


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## ginestre

london calling said:


> Is it? I'm from London - it's very common there as an expletive ejaculation and two very good friends of mine (one's Irish and the other's Scottish) use it all the time, as did my my paternal grandfather, who was born in Burnley.. Where are you from, Ginestre?
> 
> NB. North Americans don't use it, I know that. The Australians do, if I remember rightly. I've never heard it in Africa (but to be honest I never really took that much notice, so I'd better shut up!)



I'm grew up in London and 'did' uni in Yorkshire: it was common in both places- as it is in Australia. But Southern Irish friends of mine use it _very_ self-consciously, and I know that Americans find it offensive. 

The point of my observation about geographical usage was that coupling some colourful Italian regionalism with _cazzo_ might do the trick.


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## london calling

ginestre said:


> The point of my observation about geographical usage was that coupling some colourful Italian regionalism with _cazzo_ might do the trick.


They have some wonderful ones in the Neapolitan and Sicilian dialects, haven't they, but I don't think they'd be acceptable.


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## giginho

Well, Fellas, I would say:

"Ohhh cazzo! (m'ero dimenticato)" with enphasis on the "c" of cazzo, dragging the "ooooohhhh".

It works with "ohhhh mmmmerda!" as well, dragging the "m"

I love forbidden expressions!!!!!! Very usefull stuffs!


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## london calling

giginho said:


> "Ohhh cazzo! (m'ero dimenticato)" with enphasis on the "c" of cazzo, dragging the "ooooohhhh".
> 
> It works with "ohhhh mmmmerda!" as well, dragging the "m".



Anch'io, perciò mi sono trovata d'accordo con Rotty.


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## Bella63

Tegs said:


> Bello! Comunque, shit and bugger non sono *per niente* innocenti  Allora meglio cazzo, minchia o qualcos'altro che non sia innocente


Concordo
Bella


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## curiosone

london calling said:


> Is it? I'm from London - it's very common there as an expletive ejaculation and two very good friends of mine (one's Irish and the other's Scottish) use it all the time, as did my my paternal grandfather, who was born in Burnley.. Where are you from, Ginestre?
> 
> NB. North Americans don't use it, I know that. The Australians do, if I remember rightly. I've never heard it in Africa (but to be honest I never really took that much notice, so I'd better shut up!)



Who says North Americans don't use it?  It's considered vulgar and gross, but I remember it going the rounds of my elementary school class (too stupid for high school, I guess).  We even had expressions like "bugger balls", and "You bugger!".  Of course it's up to the Italians to decide how they prefer to translate it, but a more literal translation like  "Cacche e Caccoli!" might be most amusing, too.


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## london calling

curiosone said:


> Who says North Americans don't use it? It's considered vulgar and gross, but I remember it going the rounds of my elementary school class (too stupid for high school, I guess).


Sorry, I meant you don't use it as an expletive ejaculation like we do:

_Oh, bugger! warn:Bugger me sideways, bugger me backwards_ ).


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## Bella63

london calling said:


> Sorry, I meant you don't use it as an expletive ejaculation like we do:
> 
> _Oh, bugger! warn:Bugger me sideways, bugger me backwards_ ).


Hi LC
I quite agree,
(sadly) I used the word way before I knew what it actually meant 
Bella


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## london calling

Bella63 said:


> (sadly) I used the word way before I knew what it actually meant


My mother doesn't know what it means either (or so she claims: but she won't use it anyway).

Giginho: _to bugger = inculare. A bugger = uno che pratica la sodomia_.


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## Bella63

london calling said:


> My mother doesn't know what it means either (or so she claims: but she won't use it anyway).
> 
> Giginho: _to bugger = inculare. A bugger = uno che pratica la sodomia_.


well I won't tell you how I felt when I found out "what" it meant Hahahahahaha (maybe I was 5!!)
Bella


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## curiosone

london calling said:


> Sorry, I meant you don't use it as an expletive ejaculation like we do:
> 
> _Oh, bugger! warn:Bugger me sideways, bugger me backwards_ ).



I think basically in AE "bugger" is used for "caccola" (without all the seriously dirty BE connotations).  In AE we prefer our numerous expressions employing the word "Shit" (...-head, You're ...ing me!, Don't give me that ..., You're full of ..., Up ... creek without a paddle, etc, etc), or the "f" word.


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## beacher

Ciao guys, 

I don't know what the Rotty's book talks about, but if it owed some colourful languarge inside, she might use "porca puttana". Many time I found it reading some interesting books

What do you think about? Is it too much vulgar?


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## giginho

beacher said:


> Ciao guys,
> 
> I don't know what the Rotty's book talks about, but if it owed some colourful languarge inside, she might use "porca puttana". Many time I found it reading some interesting books
> 
> What do you think about? Is it too much vulgar?



It's not about the vulgarity I'm having trouble imaging "porca puttana" in this context but about its lengh. Maybe you can use the shorter way for it, saying "*porca troia*". Another funny way that boys use in this case (at least in the generation having to serve in the army) was "puttana la naja".


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## Odysseus54

curiosone said:


> I think basically in AE "bugger" is used for "caccola"



Ain't that a 'booger' ?


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## curiosone

Odysseus54 said:


> Ain't that a 'booger' ?



I checked both "bugger" and "booger" in the dictionary.  The first gives "caccola" as a secondary meaning.  The second is perhaps more specific - so perhaps you're right (associated also with the term "bogie").  Since this is a word I've mostly heard orally (and in elementary school), I wasn't sure about the spelling.  However they strike me as alternate spellings of the same word - except that the BE and AE connotations seem to change quite a lot.

I have another use of "bug" or "bugging" (no  because it isn't DIRTY).  My father used to order us to "Stop bugging!" which we interpreted as "rough-housing," as somebody inevitably got hurt (if we didn't stop).  It took us years to realize that what he really meant was "Stop bugging (ME)!"  (i.e. "Non (mi) scocciare!")


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## cercolumi

Visto che il parere di un madrelingua è richiesto, mi faccio avanti, anche non sono uno studioso di grammatica e magari verrò corretto a mia volta. 
Secondo me:
Mi sa che il traduttore non è mai stato in Italia.
Credo/Penso/Ritengo che il traduttore non sia mai stato in Italia.

"Mi sa", al mio orecchio, non richiede il congiuntivo. 

PS: giusto per tornare leggermente in topic, proporrei un merda, merda, merda! (sembra di no ma è solo due lettere più lungo)


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## Odysseus54

cercolumi said:


> Visto che il parere di un madrelingua è richiesto, mi faccio avanti, anche non sono uno studioso di grammatica e magari verrò corretto a mia volta.
> Secondo me:
> Mi sa che il traduttore non è mai stato in Italia.
> Credo/Penso/Ritengo che il traduttore non sia mai stato in Italia.
> 
> "Mi sa", al mio orecchio, non richiede il congiuntivo.



Concordo.


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## london calling

curiosone said:


> I checked both "bugger" and "booger" in the dictionary. The first gives "caccola" as a secondary meaning. The second is perhaps more specific - so perhaps you're right (associated also with the term "bogie" That's what we say in BE for "caccola".). Since this is a word I've mostly heard orally (and in elementary school), I wasn't sure about the spelling. However they strike me as alternate spellings of the same word - except that the BE and AE connotations seem to change quite a lot. Bugger and bogie are completely different words to me.
> 
> It took us years to realize that what he really meant was "Stop bugging (ME)!" (i.e. "Non (mi) scocciare!") We say that too, but it has nothing to do with "bugger".


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## Tegs

I agree with london calling - bogie and booger (I've heard both) are caccola and bugger is a different word which has a totally different (and much ruder) meaning 

PS. Grazie a tutti per la spiegazione della mancanza di congiuntivo con 'mi sa'


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