# Hindi/Urdu: xud ko maayus aur akela mahsus kareN



## tonyspeed

Having a hard time understanding why "xud ko" is in the following sentence:

aise meN donoN shaayad xud ko maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> Having a hard time understanding why "xud ko" is in the following sentence:
> 
> aise meN donoN shaayad xud ko maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN.



xud ko, here implies apne aap ko.

In this situation both might find themselves (or feel that they are) disappointed and lonely.


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> xud ko, here implies apne aap ko.
> 
> In this situation both might find themselves (or feel that they are) disappointed and lonely.



_meraa matlab yahii hai kih_ Why are we using _xud ko_? What's the added benefit or purpose?

I could have simply said "_aise meN donoN shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN_," meaning "In such a situation both may feel disappointed or lonely".

Then we throw in what seems to be a random _xud ko_ that has no relation to the verb involved. Why the need for _xud_ ? Without it, the sentence make sense. But xud must add some further nuance I am not getting.

And we are not doing anything to_ xud_ are we, so why the need for _ko_? Normally, we only use _ko_ when the noun is a direct object or we are using an indirect verb construction like _"mujhe pasand hai_", but _mahsuus karnaa_ is not a verb where this is necessary. Furthermore, we already have a logical subject in _donoN_. (Unless the logical subject is really _donoN xud_?)

So this seems to me to be some other kind of adverbial form I have never seen before.

I've found another example in "खुद को भारतीय नागरिक महसूस करती हूं : सूची" (xud ko bhaaratiiya naagrik mahsuus kartii huuN: Suchi) which seems to mean i, myself, feel like a indian citizen.

Could we therefore translate the "xud ko" as "myself" or "themselves"? 

"In such a situation, both may themselves feel lonely". Still having a hard time describing the use of "myself" and why it is used as
opposed to just saying "I feel like an Indian citizen." What it adds to the meaning is hard to describe.


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## Qureshpor

If the sentence was..

_"aise meN donoN shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN"

_It does not provide the object. donoN kis ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kareN? ho saktaa hai "donoN (maaN aur baap) apnii beTii ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kareN". So "xud ko" emphasises that the subject and the object are the same.


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## marrish

^In the above sentence _xud ko (khud ko)_ is essential because it has the function of reflexive pronoun, otherwise the sentence would be 
_
bhaaratiiy naagarik mahsuus kartii huuN
_
... and it would have a different meaning.


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## greatbear

Your point is pretty much valid, tonyspeed: in fact, one does also say "aise meiN shaayad ..." without the 'khud ko', and the meaning would remain the same. 'khud ko' might bring in extra precision (see QP's post, no. 6), though this extra precision is kind of useless here: without the 'khud ko', the sentence would naturally lead one to think that one is talking of oneself, not beTii or beTaa.

As for the bhaartiye naagrik, the same applies: "maiN ek bhaartiye naagrik maihsoos kartii hooN" is same as "maiN apne aap ko/khud ko ek bhaartiye naagrik maihsoos kartii hooN".


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> If the sentence was..
> 
> _"aise meN donoN shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN"
> 
> _It does not provide the object. donoN kis ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kareN? ho saktaa hai "donoN (maaN aur baap) apnii beTii ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kareN". So "xud ko" emphasises that the subject and the object are the same.



I always assumed mahsuus karnaa was the equivalent of "to feel" in English, not requiring an object. It seems you are telling me it means or can also mean "to cause to feel". In this case, you are causing youself to feel. Am I understanding you correctly?


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## omlick

This can be a reflexive sort of thing.   I think that the by using ko, the translation might be I feel myself to be a citizen of India.


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## Qureshpor

A, A ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kartaa hai 

B, B ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kartaa hai 

A aur B, A aur B ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus karte haiN 

A, xud ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kartaa hai 

B, xud ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus kartaa hai 

A aur B (donoN) xud ko maayuus aur akelaa maHsuus karte haiN 

The sentences..

aise meN donoN shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN

maiN ek bhaartiye naagrik maihsoos kartii hooN

... do not answer the question "kis ko?"


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## marrish

omlick said:


> This can be a reflexive sort of thing.   I think that the by using ko, the translation might be I feel myself to be a citizen of India.


Yes, it is what I said in post #5. The translation would sound better, reflecting the Urdu/Hindi grammar 'I perceive myself lonely and desperate; I perceive myself (to be) an Indian citizen'.


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## omlick

Yep, I agree with that, I guess I was looking for the English translation.  Thanks for the discussion on this, it was very dilcasp.


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> aise meN donoN shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN
> 
> maiN ek bhaartiye naagrik maihsoos kartii hooN
> 
> ... do not answer the question "kis ko?"



But QP, In Hindi I see sentences like this all the time. A few examples from websearch:

अकेला महसूस करता हूं : शाहरुख 
मैं बुरा क्यों महसूस करता हूँ?
वह शीर्ष पर पहुंचकर बहुत अकेला महसूस कर रहे हैं
जयसूर्या ने कहा कि वे पाकिस्तान में सुरक्षित महसूस कर रहे हैं
मुंबई में महफूज महसूस करता हूं: अमिताभ
इसलिए मैं इस शहर के लोगों के गुस्से व उनके दर्द को महसूस कर सकता हूं

So, obviously, in Hindi, the question "kis ko?" does not need to be answered.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> But QP, In Hindi I see sentences like this all the time. A few examples from websearch:
> 
> अकेला महसूस करता हूं : शाहरुख
> मैं बुरा क्यों महसूस करता हूँ?
> वह शीर्ष पर पहुंचकर बहुत अकेला महसूस कर रहे हैं
> जयसूर्या ने कहा कि वे पाकिस्तान में सुरक्षित महसूस कर रहे हैं
> मुंबई में महफूज महसूस करता हूं: अमिताभ
> इसलिए मैं इस शहर के लोगों के गुस्से व उनके दर्द को महसूस कर सकता हूं
> 
> So, obviously, in Hindi, the question "kis ko?" does not need to be answered.



अकेला महसूस करता हूं : शाहरुख

मुंबई में महफूज महसूस करता हूं: अमिताभ

These are no doubt newspaper headlines. Full sentences would have “xud ko”.

मैं बुरा क्यों महसूस करता हूँ?

वह शीर्ष पर पहुंचकर बहुत अकेला महसूस कर रहे हैं

जयसूर्या ने कहा कि वे पाकिस्तान में सुरक्षित महसूस कर रहे हैं

In the above sentences there is enough context for “xud ko” to be left out.

इसलिए मैं इस शहर के लोगों के गुस्से व उनके दर्द को महसूस कर सकता हूं

This sentence need not have been included in your list because we have "logoN ke Ghusse aur un ke dard ko)

If you take out "xud ko" in your original sentence, there are at least 10 possibilities that can be applied to the sentence. 

aise meN donoN *---* shaayad maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN

mujhe/hameN/tujhe/tumheN/aap ko/use/unheN/xud ko/kisii ko/sab ko

That's fine tonyspeed SaaHib, if you feel that in Hindi "kis ko" does not need to be answered.. You have asked a question and I have answered it to the best of my ability. Where did your original sentence come from? Was it from some Urdu source?


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> इसलिए मैं इस शहर के लोगों के गुस्से व उनके दर्द को महसूस कर सकता हूं
> 
> This sentence need not have been included in your list because we have "logoN ke Ghusse aur un ke dard ko)


Here they are feeling the anger and pain of others.

In the original sentence (aise meN donoN shaayad xud ko maayuus aur akelaa mahsuus kareN.) they are feeling lonely and disapppointed.

The difference I see between the two is that in one they are feeling a noun (anger and pain).
In the original sentence they are feeling adjectives (disapointed and lonely).

So is the key here that the object of mahsus karnaa has to be a noun? That would make a little bit more sense I guess.
I never thought about that aspect. 

So If I said "aise meN donoN shaayad *apni maayuusi aur akelaapan ko* mahsuus kareN." This would be correct without the use of khud ko.


So a more literal translation would be "Both are feelinging/perceiving themselves to be lonely and dissapointed." 

I beleive this is a substantial difference from English "to feel" because English "to feel" preferably operates on adjectives. i.e. "I feel angry." "I feel lonely." "I feel disappointed." but never "I feel loneliness", "I feel disappoinment" or "I feel anger" without the use of some additional participle like "I feel loneliness setting in" or "I feel anger ensuing".


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## greatbear

tonyspeed said:


> So If I said "aise meN donoN shaayad *apni maayuusi aur akelaapan ko* mahsuus kareN." This would be correct without the use of khud ko.



You don't even need "apnii" in the sentence above: it's understood that it's their own loneliness. If you want to specify someone else's, then you may need to include that person's pronoun. Similarly, in your original sentence, the sentence would mean the same even without "khud ko": of course, "khud ko" brings in extra precision, but many people omit it at many times (and include it other times).

Meanwhile, I and many others would say "akelepan" - though "akelaapan" is fine (and maybe recommended/correct?). Also, if I were to use "apnii", I would also use "apne" before "akelepan".


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## tonyspeed

greatbear said:


> You don't even need "apnii" in the sentence above: it's understood that it's their own loneliness. If you want to specify someone else's, then you may need to include that person's pronoun. Similarly, in your original sentence, the sentence would mean the same even without "khud ko": of course, "khud ko" brings in extra precision, but many people omit it at many times (and include it other times).
> 
> Meanwhile, I and many others would say "akelepan" - though "akelaapan" is fine (and maybe recommended/correct?). Also, if I were to use "apnii", I would also use "apne" before "akelepan".



bahut shukriya


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