# cioè (as filler word)



## dylanG3893

Ho bisogno d'assistenza da un nativo..

In quale caso si usa "C'è!" - come un'espressione?
Forse se c'è un dubbio, o qualcosa non è chiaro - e poi è spiegato, si direbbe "Ah c'è!" - corretto?

Mi puoi dare un esempio?

Grazie,
Dylan


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## minoski

As far as I'm aware of, "c'è" means only "there is". In the sense you gave, you could informally use "ah, ecco!", maybe, but not "c'è".

- Ieri non ti ho visto al lavoro, perchè?
- Non sono venuto, non stavo bene.
- Ah, ecco! (meaning: oh, I get it!)


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## MünchnerFax

Dylan,
What is the origin of your doubt? Have you heard or read something in particular?
To my knowledge, _c'è _can't stand alone as an interjection.


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## dylanG3893

MünchnerFax said:


> Dylan,
> What is the origin of your doubt? Have you heard or read something in particular?
> To my knowledge, _c'è _can't stand alone as an interjection.



I heard an italian couple talking yesterday, and she said, in just one sentence "si, c'è" - but I've heard this other times before. Strange that you guys say it can't be used like that.


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## MünchnerFax

Well, either it was the answer to a question which contained _c'è_ (e.g. "_C'è Luigi?_", "_Sì, c'è_"), or I think you didn't understand what she said. It could have been _"Sì, *certo*"_ pronounced with low voice.


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## giovannino

She says _sì...cioè no (yes...actually, no)_


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## MünchnerFax

It's _Sì, _*cioè...*.
That is: _Yes, well... _


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## dylanG3893

MünchnerFax said:


> It's _Sì, _*cioè...*.
> That is: _Yes, well... _



Wait, so is that what I've been hearing so often?

Is cioè a common interjection? When is it used if it is, in fact, an expression??
And is it pronounced just like c'è? Because Elisa said what sounded *identical* to c'è. No?


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## federicoft

Yes in spoken language it could sound identical to _c'è_, but just when used as an interjection.


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## dylanG3893

federicoft said:


> Yes in spoken language it could sound identical to _c'è_, but just when used as an interjection.



What could it be used as? "Well", "Actually" ??


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## fitter.happier

dylanG3893 said:


> What could it be used as? "Well", "Actually" ??



It's used the same way as "like". 

I mean... *like*... I didn't want to kill him, but I did.
*Cioè*... non volevo ammazzarlo, ma l'ho fatto.


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## dylanG3893

fitter.happier said:


> It's used the same way as "like".
> 
> I mean... *like*... I didn't want to kill him, but I did.
> *Cioè*... non volevo ammazzarlo, ma l'ho fatto.



No way!!
That's so cool!!! I always thought there was no equivalent.

So is it really extensive? Like, in any case that I would use 'like', I could use 'cioè' (like what I just said would be 'Cioè, in qualsiasi caso che userei.....')


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## fitter.happier

dylanG3893 said:


> No way!!
> That's so cool!!! I always thought there was no equivalent.
> 
> So is it really extensive? Like, in any case that I would use 'like', I could use 'cioè' (like what I just said would be 'Cioè, in qualsiasi caso che userei.....')



Yes, it's used extensively as a filler, especially when you're trying to explain something to someone and you're short of words.

I hear it all the time and it really gets annoying after a while 

Also, during conversations, "cioè" sounds very much like "c'è" and you can barely tell them apart.


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## Stynella

"Cioè" is used very often! Most of all among young people! (It became also the title of the most popular teen-magazine in Italy!!) 

"Cioè" doesn't have a particular meaning in the sentence, we say it everytime we can't explain ourselves.. or when we can't find a word, or when we are not sure of what we have said just before.. After "cioè" there could be a pause, cause the speaker is thinking. 
Ex.
Ieri si è rotta la radio, cioè... l'altroieri..
Volevo dirti che ci son rimasto male.. cioè, mi dispiace!



Teen-agers use it more often and is very difficult to explain the rules of its presence! (If not during an interrogation at school when you can't answer!! )
Ex.
Cioè, ma è possibile?!? 
Nooo, cioè, non ci credo!

(Gli esempi non sono il massimo ma è difficile! Cioè, provateci voi!! )


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## dylanG3893

Stynella said:


> "Cioè" is used very often! Most of all among young people! (It became also the title of the most popular teen-magazine in Italy!!)
> 
> "Cioè" doesn't have a particular meaning in the sentence, we say it everytime we can't explain ourselves.. or when we can't find a word, or when we are not sure of what we have said just before.. After "cioè" there could be a pause, cause the speaker is thinking.
> Ex.
> Ieri si è rotta la radio, cioè... l'altroieri..
> Volevo dirti che ci son rimasto male.. cioè, mi dispiace!
> 
> 
> 
> Teen-agers use it more often and is very difficult to explain the rules of its presence! (If not during an interrogation at school when you can't answer!! )
> Ex.
> Cioè, ma è possibile?!?
> Nooo, cioè, non ci credo!
> 
> (Gli esempi non sono il massimo ma è difficile! Cioè, provateci voi!! )



Ah!! Capisco!!
È PROPRIO come 'like' in inglese!
Anche in inglese i giovani dicono "like, like.." in ogni frase proprio come "cioè". Bravissimo!! Mi piace questa parola!!

Allora, un esempio:

A: Perché non sei stato a scuola ieri?
B: Sono andato a Nuovo York, e non potevo dormire fino a .. cioè 2 di mattina!!

Coretto?

Se io dire la parola come 'c'è', è sbagliato? Non c'è una differenza! lol Praticamente, perche non l'ho sentito mai come Ciò è
Ma, devo dire l'O nella parola veloce? O non lo devo dire mica?


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## Stynella

dylanG3893 said:


> Allora, un esempio:
> 
> A: Perché non sei stato a scuola ieri?
> B: Sono andato a New York, eh non ho potuto dormire fino a .. cioè 2 di mattina!!
> 
> Coretto?
> 
> Se io dico la parola come 'c'è', è sbagliato? Non c'è una differenza! lol Praticamente, perche non l'ho sentito mai come Ciò è
> Ma, devo dire l'O nella parola veloce? O non lo devo dire mica?


 
Il tuo esempio va benissimo! 
La O va detta sempre, anche se viene spesso coperta dalla E.. (a meno che il cioè non venga detto lentamente.. es. quando cerchi di spiegare qualcosa con calma... ).


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## dylanG3893

Stynella said:


> Il tuo esempio va benissimo!
> La O va detta sempre, anche se viene spesso coperta dalla E.. (a meno che il cioè non venga detto lentamente.. es. quando cerchi di spiegare qualcosa con calma... ).



Allora, è più sicuro dire "ciò-eh" sempre? Se io dicessi "cioè" come "c'è" in tutte le mie conversazioni, va bene? Suonerà strano?


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## RICCARDOS

Ah, yes - this was amarvelous conversation.

For myself, a beginner in learning Italian, this kind of exchange and information is priceless.  I hope you don't mind - I've copied the entire exchange to keep as a permanemt addition to my reference materials.  

This simply is just something you can't get (or find) in the usual reference materials.  Too bad there are not more exchanges like this on this forum.

Grazie mille a tutti.

One final question:  Is the correct pronunciation really exactly like "c'è" (which I think I can pronounce correctly) instead of "cho-è" (as I, as a beginner, would expect).  Or, is it just that it sounds like "c'è" when spokedn quickly by a native and heard by an untrained ear?

Again, grazie a tutti.

Riccardo


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## giovannino

RICCARDOS said:


> One final question: Is the correct pronunciation really exactly like "c'è" (which I think I can pronounce correctly) instead of "cho-è" (as I, as a beginner, would expect). Or, is it just that it sounds like "c'è" when spoken quickly by a native *and heard by* *an untrained ear*?


 
You put it very well. It's exactly what I wanted to say. When others wrote that it can sound identical to _c'è _I was concerned that learners might not even try to pronounce the _o, _which may be pronounced extremely quickly in fast speech but is definitely there, at least to my ears.

I'd like to make another important point. I think there is some confusion between what is a perfectly legitimate use of _cioè _and its overuse as an empty filler word.
The way it is used by Elisa in the video (_sì, cioè no_) and in Stynella's example:



> Ieri si è rotta la radio, cioè... l'altroieri..


 
is perfectly fine and mentioned in the Devoto Oli definition:

*cioè *ha funzione dichiarativa, esplicativa, *correttiva di parole o frasi precedenti*..._ti telefonerò, cioè, verrò io personalmente_

In this "correttivo" use it's quite similar to "actually".

Then the word started being used more and more also as an empty filler word in pauses, like "you know (what I mean)", "like" or "er"(BE):

*er *BrE a sound you make when you do not know exactly what to say next: _Well, er - I'm not really sure (Longman)_

There is nothing wrong with filler words when they are used sparingly. The trouble is that many kids use _cioè _in this way every few words. I've watched a few _esami di stato _and it was painful to hear those kids using _cioè _maybe a hundred times in the span of half an hour, not in casual speech, where it belongs, but while discussing literature or history or physics.


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## federicoft

giovannino said:


> You put it very well. It's exactly what I wanted to say. When others wrote that it can sound identical to _c'è _I was concerned that learners might not even try to pronounce the _o, _which may be pronounced extremely quickly in fast speech but is definitely there, at least to my ears.



In my opinion, in fast speech, it sounds _absolutely_ identical to c'è. 

I don't even know how to write it since as we know Italian phonology always matches the ortography, differently from English, and this word is actually a different word from cioè.

Something like:
_*Cè*, dai, non puoi essere stato lui!

_Of course there are various nuances. One could pronounce the whole word cioè,  pronounce the _o_ very quickly, or dropping it completely.
It depends on context and maybe regional differences as well.


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## Stynella

dylanG3893 said:


> Allora, è più sicuro dire "ciò-eh" sempre? Se io dicessi "cioè" come "c'è" in tutte le mie conversazioni, va bene? Suonerà strano?


 
Sicuramente, pronunciare la O facendola sentire non suonerà MAI strano (però deve essere sempre legata alla E.. non fare pausa dove hai messo il trattino!), in nessun tipo di conversazione. 
Al contrario, pronunciare "cioè" come "c'è" può andar bene SOLO se si sta parlando in modo veloce (io personalmente lo sconsiglio lo stesso...in una conversazione veloce la O si sentirà automaticamente di meno.. perché toglierla a priori?!!?). Oltretutto, secondo me, un nativo si accorge della differenza tra un "c'è" e un "cioè" veloce già quando a pronunciarli son dei madrelingua.. Un "cioè" detto senza O da uno straniero potrebbe suonare strano ancor più facilmente.


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## giovannino

federicoft said:


> In my opinion, in fast speech, it sounds _absolutely_ identical to c'è.
> 
> _*Cè*, dai, non puoi essere stato lui!_


 
Not even a _vague _trace of an _o_? Well, either it's a regional pronunciation I've never happened to hear (or notice) or my hearing is very good (or very bad!)


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## Stynella

I agree with those who said that this is a marvellous and very instructive thread!

Now that we have explained more or less the circumstances in which "cioè" is used and the frequency of its appearence in conversations, can I really use LIKE at the same way in english??


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## baldpate

For those who are interested, I am posting this link to YouTube (by kind permission of MünchnerFax ), which I hope you will find both amusing and instructive.

It shows a sketch by the two English comedians, Armstrong & Miller. In this sketch they play two 'stiff-upper-lip' Royal Air Force airmen from World War 2, who talk to one another in teenage argot, with frequent use of the filler word "like" and other meaningless teenage-talk ("whatever"/"isn't it" etc"). It's not only hilarious (at least I hope you find it so - the humour is very British) but, by exaggeration, well illustrates the meaningless use of "like".

Enjoy! 

baldpate


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## RICCARDOS

Grazie giovannino e federicroft.

You have answered my question perfectly.  This usage of "cioè" is a good term to know and I will try to use it and pronounce it correctly (and sparingly!).


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## ToscanoNYC

Se non erro, "cioè" raggiunse il massimo della popolarità negli anni '70, ed ora è un po' in declino.    O no?


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## minoski

ToscanoNYC said:


> Se non erro, "cioè" raggiunse il massimo della popolarità negli anni '70, ed ora è un po' in declino. O no?


 
Oh, no, purtroppo no! Non so ora, ma negli anni '90 spopolava!
c.


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## Stynella

baldpate said:


> For those who are interested, I am posting this link to YouTube (by kind permission of MünchnerFax ), which I hope you will find both amusing and instructive.
> 
> 
> baldpate


 


ToscanoNYC said:


> Se non erro, "cioè" raggiunse il massimo della popolarità negli anni '70, ed ora è un po' in declino. O no?


 

Risponderei ad entrambi i post con un filmato che starebbe a pennello, cercate su YouTube "un sacco bello figli dell'amore eterno" c'è la mitica scena di Verdone che da tipico figlio dei fiori anni '70 usa "cioè" in continuazione (e anche "no?") e dice parecchie volte anche "c'è"!! 

Un buon allenamento per le orecchie meno allenate!


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## albe_

I think that *"cioè"*, as a standalone interjection, can be compared to the english (especially AE) *"you know"*. Both expression don't add any information to the sentence and both are used mainly by young people just to take breath or to think what to say.


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## Odysseus54

A warning - "cioe' " , if used as a filler/breather/lubricant with the same frequency as "like" in AE Valley girl talk, is Italian Valley girl talk.  

Basically a bad habit.


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## Elizard

Per me dire cioè è come quando si dice in English "you know" intercalare tipico, ma privo di uno specifico significato come dice Albe.


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## jboone

When I first came to Italy after living in Mexico, I wondered what was the Italian equivalent of, '...o sea...', which is a common filler in Mexico. In this case 'sia' proved to be a false friend: cioè (though I've always heard it as c'è when a filler) is the expression I hear my friends using just like 'sea' in Spanish.


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## Fremdsprache_entusiasta

I believe my Italian teacher years ago told me that in some cases cioè roughly translates as, 'that is to say...'

Is this true?

Alex


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## TimLA

You can do a search of the forums for "fillers words" and see other examples.
When I see "cioè" here on the forum, or in formal texts, it most often corresponds to "that is to say" or "that is" as stated by FE.

But interestingly, I'm watching the Montalbano series now and he uses "cioè" in a slightly different way.
Someone will say something, he will say only the word "cioè?" then the person will expand on the original idea.
So I get the sense that it is "What do you mean?" "And so?" "Go on" "and therefore", etc.


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## Paulfromitaly

Fremdsprache_entusiasta said:


> I believe my Italian teacher years ago told me that in some cases cioè roughly translates as, 'that is to say...'
> 
> Is this true?
> 
> Alex


Cioè does mean "this is to say", but not when it's used as a filler word.



TimLA said:


> Someone will say something, he will say only the word "cioè?" then the person will expand on the original idea.
> So I get the sense that it is "What do you mean?" "And so?" "Go on" "and therefore", etc.



That's true:

Tom: < talking nonsense or saying something unclear/complicated>
Tim: *Cioè*? ( I don't understand, please elaborate)



baldpate said:


> For those who are interested, I am posting this link to YouTube (by kind permission of MünchnerFax ), which I hope you will find both amusing and instructive.


That is well bad, mate!


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## A.T.

I know this thread is very old, but I'd like to add that the contracted form "c'è" is commonly used in some parts of Northern Italy. I come from Trentino-Alto Adige, and I dare say that "c'è" is actually more frequent that "cioè".


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## King Crimson

A.T. said:


> I know this thread is very old, but I'd like to add that the contracted form "c'è" is commonly used in some parts of Northern Italy. I come from Trentino-Alto Adige, and I dare say that "c'è" is actually more frequent that "cioè".


 
I would never ever reccomend this usage to non-native speakers (and to native speakers too, for that matter).


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## A.T.

Of course, that's not what I said or meant.
Idioms are always an interesting aspect of a language though, and useful if you're planning on visiting the place where they're used.


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## Necsus

However I'd say it should be written "*cè*" because it is a way to simplify the pronounciation avoiding the succession of three vowels. There is no reason for the apostrophe.


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## A.T.

That's probably true.


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## Paulfromitaly

A.T. said:


> commonly used in some parts of Northern Italy. I come from Trentino-Alto Adige


Maybe it's not Northern Italy but just Alto Adige because I've never heard it before..


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## Fulvia.ser

"cè" invece di "cioè" ... francamente, anche io prima di leggerlo qui non l'avevo mai sentito.


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## A.T.

Probabilmente non è molto usato se non in un paio di regioni! Ad ogni modo specifico che è usato sicuramente in Trentino, e non (amento credo) in Alto Adige, che è più influenzato dal tedesco.


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## london calling

I can hear the 'o' when it's pronounced by Italians here in Campania (some pronounce it more clearly than others) , but not when it's pronounced by some (not all) northern Italians (es. il 'cè' dei figli di amici milanesi, dalle 'e' molto aperta e strascicata...) . I hate both _cioè_ and_ like_ as fillers, by the way (they both really wind me up: they make people sound illiterate even if they're not, in my opinion).


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## Necsus

È usato soprattutto dai ragazzi, se non ne frequentate o non avete figli adolescenti è comprensibile che non l'abbiate mai sentito. Come dicevo, in questo caso mi risulta che sia semplicemente un modo per semplificare e velocizzare la dizione, considerata la brevità della parola, più che abbreviare come succede per lo scritto nello stile chat/sms. Se ne parla QUI. 

PS: non avete mai sentito neanche "vé" al posto di "vero"?


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Per fortuna, no.

GS  (Ciao, Nec!)


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