# Aramaic: Love



## Phileo

And more particularly, in the modern Aramaic script, the one that looks a lot like the Hebrew script. 

Maybe how to properly pronounce it, too? 

Thank you

*** Also, I want to learn Aramaic, for praying and that sort of thing, but I know there are presently many versions of Aramaic, so I want to know which variety I should focus on. Anything remotely close to what Jesus spoke is what I'm looking for, or just the most widely used, I suppose. 

Thanks again


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## berndf

Strictly speaking, it is the other way round: Hebrew is written with a variant of the "Imperial Aramaic" (=Babylonian-Aramaic) script. The word is /ħubbɑ/ in both Judaeo-Aramaic and Syriac. Judaeo-Aramaic (the language spoken by Jews in the days of Jesus, together with Hebrew) is at the verge of extinction. Most Neo-Aramaic speakers are Christian Syriac speakers (not a very large group either, 0.5M people at most).

Spellings:
חובא (Judeo-Aramaic)
ܚܘܒܐ (Syriac)
The difference is in letter shape only. ܚ-ח, ܘ-ו, ܒ-ב, ܐ-א correspond 1:1.


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## fdb

At least since the work of Kutscher in the 1960s and of his pupil Sokoloff, the terms “Jewish Aramaic” or “Jud(a)eo-Aramaic” are no longer used by Semitists. Instead, they distinguish between Biblical Aramaic, Jewish Palestinian (Western) Aramaic, Jewish Babylonian (Eastern) Aramaic, and Jewish (Eastern) Neo-Aramaic.

Syriac is the Church language of several Eastern Churches. The Aramaic dialects spoken today by Christians in the Near East include several dialects of Modern Western Aramaic (in Syria) and of Modern Eastern Aramaic (formerly called “Neo-Syriac”) in Iraq.

The most common word for “love” – and especially in its Biblical/Christian sense – in Syriac is _re__ḥ__m__ϑā_, in Syriac script:

ܪܚܡܬܐ

corresponding to JBA רחמתא.


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## berndf

Depends of the level of detail you want to get into. The term is at list still popularly known.


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## fdb

*The difference between Western Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Palestinian Talmud) and Eastern Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Babylonian Talmud, Syriac, Mandaic, modern Jewish and Christian Eastern Aramaic) is as fundamental as the difference between High German and Low German. Nobody would think of grouping the dialects spoken by Catholics in the Rhineland together with those spoken in Bavaria as “Catholic German”. That is why “Jewish Aramaic” is also wrong. This is not a question of detail but of linguistic sense versus linguistic nonsense.*


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## fdb

Phileo said:


> Also, I want to learn Aramaic, for praying and that sort of thing, but I know there are presently many versions of Aramaic, so I want to know which variety I should focus on. Anything remotely close to what Jesus spoke is what I'm looking for, or just the most widely used, I suppose.



If you want to learn Aramaic from a Christian perspective you should learn classical Syriac. It is not exactly the form of Aramaic spoken by Jesus, but it is the language in which the Aramaic-speaking Christians read the Bible and conduct their services.


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## berndf

fdb said:


> The difference between Western Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Palestinian Talmud) and Eastern Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Babylonian Talmud, Syriac, Mandaic, modern Jewish and Christian Eastern Aramaic) is as fundamental as the difference between High German and Low German. Nobody would think of grouping the dialects spoken by Catholics in the Rhineland together with those spoken in Bavaria as “Catholic German”. That is why “Jewish Aramaic” is also wrong. This is not a question of detail but of linguistic sense versus linguistic nonsense.


Whatever. If you insist, the variety the OP is after ("Anything remotely close to what Jesus spoke") is called "Judean Aramaic" by Sokoloff, i.e. what was spoken and written by Jews in Judea between the Maccabean and the Bar-Kokhbar revolts which includes the second temple period when Jesus lived. The languages of the eastern and Western Talmud existed later and Biblical Aramaic earlier.


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## origumi

fdb said:


> ܪܚܡܬܐ
> 
> corresponding to JBA רחמתא.


Root ר-ח-מ is also the one used many times in the Unqelos translation for Hebrew א-ה-ב = love.


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## fdb

origumi said:


> Root ר-ח-מ is also the one used many times in the Unqelos translation for Hebrew א-ה-ב = love.



In the Syriac versions of the New Testament forms from the root r-ḥ-m are generally used for φιλία, φιλέω etc., and forms from ḥ-b-b for ἀγάπη, ἀγαπάω etc., but there are exceptions.


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## L'irlandais

fdb said:


> _The difference between Western Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Palestinian Talmud) and Eastern Aramaic (e.g. the language of the Babylonian Talmud, Syriac, Mandaic, modern Jewish and Christian Eastern Aramaic) is as fundamental as the difference between High German and Low German. Nobody would think of grouping the dialects spoken by Catholics in the Rhineland together with those spoken in Bavaria as “Catholic German”. That is why “Jewish Aramaic” is also wrong. This is not a question of detail but of linguistic sense *versus linguistic nonsense*_.


You make me smile fbd,
That sounds more like something taken from a clip of Monty Python :


> BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front?
> REG: F*@# off!
> BRIAN: What?
> REG: Judean People's Front! We're the People's Front of Judea!


*Do you know the difference between Milhüsa (Elsàss)-*ditsch* and Basler (Schwyzer)-*tütsch*?

Phileo,  If you wish to pray as Jesus taught us to pray, then try praying in your mother tongue.
That's what Jesus was doing when he spoke Aramaic, surely?


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## origumi

L'irlandais said:


> Phileo,  If you wish to pray as Jesus taught us to pray, then try praying in your mother tongue.
> That's what Jesus was doing when he spoke Aramaic, surely?


I guess Jesus prayed in Hebrew, although he may have spoken Aramaic as mother language.


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## GiovanniL

berndf said:


> Strictly speaking, it is the other way round: Hebrew is written with a variant of the "Imperial Aramaic" (=Babylonian-Aramaic) script. The word is /ħubbɑ/ in both Judaeo-Aramaic and Syriac. Judaeo-Aramaic (the language spoken by Jews in the days of Jesus, together with Hebrew) is at the verge of extinction. Most Neo-Aramaic speakers are Christian Syriac speakers (not a very large group either, 0.5M people at most).
> 
> Spellings:
> חובא (Judeo-Aramaic)
> ܚܘܒܐ (Syriac)
> The difference is in letter shape only. ܚ-ח, ܘ-ו, ܒ-ב, ܐ-א correspond 1:1.


From wich texts do you assume that חובא means "love" in Judeo-Aramaic? This is very interesting. Usually, it means "debt".


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## berndf

GiovanniL said:


> Usually, it means "debt".


That is _ḥawba'_. _Love_ is _ḥubba'_. Those are different words from different root that just happen to be spelled the same.


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## GiovanniL

berndf said:


> That is _ḥawba'_. _Love_ is _ḥubba'_. Those are different words from different root that just happen to be spelled the same.


I know. But you said that חובא is "love" in Judeo-Aramaic. Can you give me an example? This is really interesting.


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## berndf

Ah, you acknowledge both words in classical Syriac just not Judeo-Aramaic. I am also only aware of attestations for the meaning _love_ in Syriac (e.g. Corinthians 13:13).


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## GiovanniL

berndf said:


> Ah, you acknowledge both words in classical Syriac just not Judeo-Aramaic. I am also only aware of attestations for the meaning _love_ in Syriac (e.g. Corinthians 13:13).


Thank you. If you will find it in Judeo-Aramaic tell me.


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