# Different styles of learning for languages



## gaer

This may not belong here, and if a moderator thinks it belongs elsewhere, please feel free to move it.

But the subject, although it is about learning foreign languages, has to do with how people learn ANY foreign language. And since a I believe the majority of people who come here are either trying to learn a language other than English or are trying to learn English itself as a second language, perhaps it does belong here.

Let me state some obvious things first. We know that adults do not learn language the same way the children do, so age is a huge factor.

Different people have different priorities. Some people, for instance, are mostly interested in being able to speak a language. My interest in foreign languages is almost entirely linked to being able to read them.

Finally, I think some people are enormously talented at mimicking what they hear, enabling them to pick up a new language relatively easily without worrying too much about the rules.

Other people are very good at spotting patterns but have poor memories. I call them "code-breakers". I'm a code-breaker.

It seems to me that a person who is a natural code-breaker AND an excellent mimic will have the most success at learning new languages quickly.

Thoughts? 

For instance, it seem to me that when a teacher is especially good at mimicking, but the students he or she is teaching do not have the same talent, the result is usually disaster. This is what caused me to flunk three years of "listen and repeat" Spanish. At the end of three years, I not only knew no Spanish but felt I was an idiot and could never learn another language.

Gaer


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## te gato

Hi gaer;
I am the opposite of you..

I find it easier to understand the language when I have it spoken to me....polly wanna cracker.!! 

When I was in Mexico..and all my friends were teaching me Mexican Spanish..I found that I could catch on faster when they spoke than when they wrote...
Sure there were times that I had no clue what they were saying...they talk so fast. 
.but when they would slow down their speech..for me..I got the gist of the conversation...I might not have understood every single word..but the idea..yes..
Even to this day..when I speak to them on the phone..I can understand them...I might have to ask them to repeat it one more time...
Yet when it come to writing it...I'm lost...In my case I find that I think too much about reversing the words...blending the words...what goes here...is it male..is it female...yadda, yadda....And I end up being more confused than when I started....
I'm just lucky that my friends there are so sweet..and help me....awwww

te gato


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## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> Hi gaer;
> I am the opposite of you..
> 
> I find it easier to understand the language when I have it spoken to me....polly wanna cracker.!!
> 
> When I was in Mexico..and all my friends were teaching me Mexican Spanish..I found that I could catch on faster when they spoke than when they wrote...
> Sure there were times that I had no clue what they were saying...they talk so fast.
> .but when they would slow down their speech..for me..I got the gist of the conversation...I might not have understood every single word..but the idea..yes..
> Even to this day..when I speak to them on the phone..I can understand them...I might have to ask them to repeat it one more time...
> Yet when it come to writing it...I'm lost...In my case I find that I think too much about reversing the words...blending the words...what goes here...is it male..is it female...yadda, yadda....And I end up being more confused than when I started....
> I'm just lucky that my friends there are so sweet..and help me....awwww
> 
> te gato


Okay. This is JUST what I wanted to know. I think you are a mimic. I think you can hear things and repeat them. I can't. I can't even remember what I hear in English. I remember the sense, the meaning, but if I have to explain what someone has told me, I have to rephrase it in my own words.

You are probably like some of the kids in my Spanish class. They just picked things up, and I envied them.

Are you very strong at math? Are you good at puzzles?

Gaer


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## te gato

gaer said:
			
		

> Okay. This is JUST what I wanted to know. I think you are a mimic. I think you can hear things and repeat them. I can't. I can't even remember what I hear in English. I remember the sense, the meaning, but if I have to explain what someone has told me, I have to rephrase it in my own words.
> 
> You are probably like some of the kids in my Spanish class. They just picked things up, and I envied them.
> 
> Are you very strong at math? Are you good at puzzles?
> 
> Gaer


gaer;
Like I said..Polly wanna' cracker.. 
For me to learn the writing part I really have to concentrate..it is that brain to finger problem and then I find that I think about it too much..and get very confused...
Math..  terrible...
Puzzles..love them..can put one together in no time...

te gato


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## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> gaer;
> Like I said..Polly wanna' cracker..
> For me to learn the writing part I really have to concentrate..it is that brain to finger problem and then I find that I think about it too much..and get very confused...
> Math.. terrible...
> Puzzles..love them..can put one together in no time...
> 
> te gato


NO memory for words, spoken. Can't tell jokes. Can't remember punchlines. Can't remember the words to any songs.

But: I retain symphonies in my head and can play them back like CDs. Strong in math. See patterns EVERYWHERE. What I can do (and some of what I can't) is very typical for pianists. 

Gaer


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## JennR

I think I am a hybrid.  

I can mimic sounds quite easily. 

I was much better at dictation during the 3 years I was learning French in high school. I really wish I'd paid more attention. I never thought that I would have a reason to know a language other than my own. It was very shortsighted, but I was a teenager. If I only knew then, what I know now...

At the moment, I am more interested in being able to read the various languages. I do retain small phrases that I can say, but probably couldn't write them if my life depended on it.

So here I am, attempting to pick up understanding in: Portuguese, French, and Italian...simulataneously.  Mostly for Historical Research purposes. I am most grateful to find this forum and all the wonderful people on it.


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## Artrella

I can mimic and I can think in the language I'm speaking in that moment.
I go to German classes and I think in German, is an automatic click in my brain.  I go out of my German class and go immediately to Italian, and I forget about German and begin thinking in Italian.  Same happens with English and Spanish .
Once a teacher (English) said : "you have the ability of having a bilingual brain" and this is extremely useful when you learn a foreign language!
This teacher is an Irish woman who in fact is a neighbour of mine, and whenever I meet her I cannot help speaking in English when talking to her.  I don't know why!  It's something that happens automatically.  I never translate German or Italian or English into Spanish in order to learn them, but my brain is  at that moment German or Italian or English.  It just happens!


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## cuchuflete

gaer said:
			
		

> NO memory for words, spoken. Can't tell jokes. Can't remember punchlines. Can't remember the words to any songs.
> 
> But: I retain symphonies in my head and can play them back like CDs. Strong in math. See patterns EVERYWHERE. What I can do (and some of what I can't) is very typical for pianists.
> 
> Gaer



Hi Gaer,

Maybe you can classify me, because I cannot.  I am good at hearing and imitating accents and words, but not necessarily sentences.  As a musician, I have difficulty memorizing entire works, but can remember and play phrases I heard in jazz clubs 30 years ago, and can sing along with recordings of music I haven't heard or played in decades.

I love pattern recognition, and use it in such areas as literary analysis and business planning.

A related aside:  Most people I know who are 'good at' language learning are also good at math [another "language"?] and music.

ciao,
Cuchu


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## Outsider

I think I'm a hybrid, too.   
I've always felt I could mimick other languages well, even languages I never learned, not just in terms of phonetics, but also in terms of absorbing their idioms, inflections and so on. But I've always had an interest in the rules behind the languages, too.

Still, this information may be outdated. All foreign languages I speak I started learning as an adolescent. I haven't learned a new language in many years, and I'm not sure how good I would be at it now. 

The saddest part is forgetting the languages I have learned. Since I don't have the chance to practice, my French has become hesitant and clunky.


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## CBFelix

3 years ago when we first arrived to Rio I didn’t know a world of Portuguese.  I didn’t follow any courses neither. I listened , I had my dictionary and from the first day I jumped into the Carioca Portuguese . No reading, no watching television, only listening , I watched and listened  how they speak, how they pronounce. Their mimic and jest I followed.   Now after 3 years, I can easily speak, tell what I want to tell, but one thing I can’t do; go into big and complicated conversations or write a text. But my Portuguese is enough for me, even it is not perfect in grammatically or in pronunciation. I never worried about grammar, my aim was be able to talk. If I were somewhere else and follow courses I could write, read but not speak like I do now. 
The point is one should jump into language where the language is. This year we will move out again, we don’t know yet where but I hope it will be a country Francophone so that I can improve my French. 

But, what I found most strange is, when I don’t understand what someone says, he / she first repeat sentences couple of times nervously by each time getting louder and louder as if I am a deaf .. Of course, when this is not working they start to write it down !!!  For got sake…   But cleaver ones always try to explain by using other words and try to simplify the sentence, getting nervous instead. 
Or sometimes you have to pronounce the word exactly how they pronounce. Even little accent in your tong can cause not to be understood.   People who never travel or never meet with foreigners are intent to not understand some people speaks different.   Like my grandma, when she visited me in Pakistan, she was used to speak Turkish with everybody like that, and so surprised when nobody understand her. !!   

For me, the most important element of learning other language is, knowing words as many as possible. If you don’t know enough words how grammar can help you. I think, in schools or language courses, it should be given more importance to teach more words. I know, they expect from students to learn but in every language there is a list of first 1000 - 3000 or 5000 most frequently used words. At least they can supply that list for students. 

( It was a little long answer and maybe badly written.   Sorry for that)


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## gaer

I've found the answers here extraordinarily interesting. I had a reason for starting this thread. Let me explain.

I appear to have a rather strange learning disability. As I may have mentioned before, if I think of a favorite song, I can only remember perhaps one out of 20 words. I have never been able to recite a poem, a speech, even a couple of famous lines, a famous quote.

I am only able to remember words in "packets" of about three or four words, seldom more, and I remember fewer words with more difficulty. This includes English. I also can only retain at most 3 or 4 digits in my brain when they are given to me. For instance, if someone calls out a telephone number and I try to write it down, if I get more than 4 numbers, they all go out of my head.

This particular loss of memory took place somewhere between the age of 5 and about 15, and I don't understand why it happened. I can recite adds, jingles, all sorts of weird things from when I was very young only.

This inability to remember more than very small amounts of information caused me to develop some very unusual techniques when I began to learn German, as an adult. Yet I learned it on my own, which I'm told is very unusual. When I read, I think in German. This suggests to me that radically different ways of approaching a language may lead to the same result.

I have more thoughts, but I'd like to get more stories from other people. Please keep them coming. Those of us who have successfully learned a second language, especially as adults, may incorrectly assume that the same methods have worked for all of us. It seems this may be VERY wrong!

Gaer


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## Agnès E.

Hello Gaer, 
I think I am a mix between Artrella and CBFelix : I mean, I just dare talking, don't care about making mistakes, and I use to absorbing the words, the phrases, the accents as fast as I get them. What I want is communicating, not being the best in language !
As for French, it is different. Then, I want perfection because it is my mother language, so I am very strict about it in the way that I don't like trendy words, "young" language, colloquial language, and so on.
I'm also very good with imitating accents (I remember having had much fun with Russian customers when I used to work in an export company) and imitating styles : I immediately adapt to the people I am talking to and I adopt their style, in order to match with their way of talking and to better communicate with them.
And I have a very good "oreille musicale", too.


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## sperdomo

Hi, 

I am mostly a code breaker.  I am working on a degree in linguistics. I have studied at lot of languages that I can't speak at all, but I know the codes (syntax, phonology, morphology) very well! I have studied Zulu, Ayutla Mixtec, Trique, and Slave (an athapaskan language spoken in NW Canada). My problem comes when I try to apply what I know in the moment. Even thought I know the rules, I can't seem to apply them when I need to speak quickly. I have to either focus on structure or communication. I can't seem to do both. Thus, my spoken Spanish is terrible even though I can pass advanced Spanish grammar tests and read novels etc...But I am absolutely committed to learning and overcoming my intellectual flaws. Even though I don't have a real ability with languages like Artella, I am so stubborn  that I am hopeful that I will eventually learn anyway. 
Susan


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## JennR

I guess that's what they'd call the difference between "classroom" and field.  

Jenn


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## Outsider

gaer said:
			
		

> I've found the answers here extraordinarily interesting. I had a reason for starting this thread. Let me explain.
> 
> I appear to have a rather strange learning disability. As I may have mentioned before, if I think of a favorite song, I can only remember perhaps one out of 20 words. I have never been able to recite a poem, a speech, even a couple of famous lines, a famous quote.


Well, I think I'm like that, too. Normally, what draws me to a song is the melody. I can't make out much of the lyrics, especially if they're in English. Only sometimes, when the lyrics are sung clearly, do I to make the effort to understand all of them.



			
				gaer said:
			
		

> I am only able to remember words in "packets" of about three or four words, seldom more, and I remember fewer words with more difficulty.


I was taught foreign languages by sentences: "What's your name? / My name is...?", "How old are you? / I'm ... years old", "Where do you live? / I live in ...", and so on. I think this is how it's normally done, at least when you're just starting to learn a language. Grammar and even pronunciation came later.


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## Monkling

I have found this thread extremely interesting since I have been pondering this question myself as I struggle to learn Italian. I am the oddball of the family because my husband and both kids seem to pick up language rather easily. They are also gifted in both music and math so I suspect there is some real connection between those fields and the ability to learn a language.

I have problems with anything that requires strict memorization. I believe part of the problem is that I am a visual learner. I can remember quite a bit of American Sign Language but barely anything of high school Italian.   

   My biggest question is this: How do those of us who learn differently master learning another language? For those of you who have learned a secondary language, are there any tips or techniques you used that helped?


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## Outsider

Monkling said:
			
		

> I have problems with anything that requires strict memorization. I believe part of the problem is that I am a visual learner. I can remember quite a bit of American Sign Language but barely anything of high school Italian.


Perhaps it would be a good idea to give writing a special focus. I'm not saying "Just learn to write"; you need to learn to speak as well, but maybe you should start your path to Italian with the writing (Italian spelling is very, very simple!), and always associate each spoken sentence very closely to its written counterpart. Does this make any sense?  

I also suggest you consider the ideas in this thread. It's about learning German, but I think the techniques suggested there are universal.


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## Antartic

Hi Gaer. Very interesting subject.
 I think I don't have the ability to learn languages, I don't have a good memory either, I don't have a good ear, but I'd love to learn as many languages as I can. I hadn't realized this thing until I 'tried' to learn French, German and Italian, it was a very frustrating experience because I tried to understand in a very easy way, considering my incapabilities, with a proper method, BUT the methods of teaching vary much from one to the other, and I guess all of them are slow and complicated, for me this is the cornerstone of this issue. I've been looking for all over the internet and nobody has a real answer, neither the teachers nor the linguistics. The flaw that I can see is that the teachers intend the students to learn as fast as possible, for me this is very wrong, because only the most capable brains can absorb this amount of information in a short period of time. The brain of the normal people just entrangle with these exercises: a bit of grammar, questions, answers, a bit of songs, games, a bit of tales, orders, cultural issues, all at the same time!
 My personal point of view is that a language is like starting to learn to drive, you should learn just one thing at the time, once you have learned that topic, pass to the other, cause nobody should go out to the streets, having in mind that he/she must be aware of several things at the same time.
 My technique is try to learn a grammatical pattern from a couple of examples of a key word (for ex.: what, house, get), so this allow me to repeat it to another noun, adjective, verb, etc. it's not a hard work and you save a lot of time. The problem is that a language doesn't follow a pattern all the time, it's not like maths, therefore in these circumstances only the memory is useful.


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## Agnès E.

Bonjour Monkling !
My techniques are :
- Never translate in your mind, but just dive into the foreign language and then try and speak, even if you make mistakes
- Keep your ears open and try and catch easy words and phrases (daily ones)
- If you are a visual learner : read, read, read !!  and find (if you can...) foreign films in original version.


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## Outsider

I made a hasty post about the usefulness of subtitled films, but then I deleted it (sorry about that!  ), because, upon reflection, I think subtitles are a two-edged sword: they can help you to increase your vocabulary, almost subconsciously, when you're just starting to learn a language, provided you have many hours of exposure to subtitled films. But I agree that they can also become a crutch after some time.  

On the other hand, if you could find films subtitled in their original language, they might be helpful...

With respect to *learning Italian*, I once browsed through this book, and it seemed very good to me. However, I have not used it myself.


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## Philippa

What an interesting thread! Let me try to join in the psycho-self-analysis of my language learning.


I think I'm a rubbish mimic. I can't copy accents at all and for all the Spanish tapes I listen to (loads and loads) very few phrases pop into my mind for me to say.
I think I'm pretty poor at being brave and willing to have a go and speak, although really I do want to communicate and it does give me a buzz if it goes well.

I think I must be a fairly good 'code-breaker' of grammar (I'm good at Maths - but poor at arithmetic a bit like spelling is a pain for me, rubbish at music, rubbish at logic puzzles and cryptic crosswords in English and very average at IQ tests). I'm happy to keep on asking until I understand something (poor lizy!!) because I'm not afraid to be seen as stupid/not getting it as I've had academic success (in the past anyway!!).

I think I must have a fairly good memory. I seem to know lots of Spanish vocab (especially passively) and I haven't made that much effort to learn it all.

I'm addicted to learning Spanish at the moment (it's been nearly a year now - it's not just these forums!) and this means I'm reading a lot in Spanish and I want to listen to it all the time in my car. So I guess this strange enthusiasm is helping me too!

I wonder how thinking all this through is going to help me (or anyone else!)?
I really hope all the forum regulars post their self-analyses here!!
Saludos a todos
Philippa


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## Monkling

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> - If you are a visual learner : read, read, read !!


Ah, time to go find some Italian children's books. Those would probably be about my speed & I can gradually work my way up to a third grade readling level.  

I'm glad I was brave enough to post here because you've given some excellent suggestions. Thanks.

Joanne (or Monkling - I answer to both)


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## Monkling

Outsider said:
			
		

> With respect to *learning Italian*, I once browsed through this book, and it seemed very good to me.


I have that along with about 4 others, some CDs and computer software. And it's still slow going. Did I mention I'm a slow learner? I've also been listening a lot to Andrea Bocelli & Josh Groban and (when I remember) watching the Italian news. I am finding that I'm able to pick up more of the lyrics each time I listen to the songs so I guess that's a start.

We plan on going to Italy for our 25th anniversary and there's also a chance my son may be sent to study in Rome in a couple of years so I have a bit over 3 years to learn to speak & understand at least simple sentences. When we were in Rome 5 years ago, I found it frustrating to know so little of the language.

Joanne


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## Outsider

Have you tried reading the Italian media? You should be able to access a lot of it through the Internet.
And do you like European cinema? Some of the best European film directors were Italian.


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## te gato

I also agree with others..on the aspect of listening...
I listen to Spanish music all the time...at home...in my car...at my mothers..yadda,yadda.. and in doing so I found that I can pick out words and phrases...and understand them....

Yet if you are not a ' visual ' learner..it is very hard and at time frustrating..to read books in your targeted language...and understand them...
I find myself going over..and over..the same phrase...and not getting it for a while...
In a way I find that the forum helps..and also gets me more frustrated !!...by the time I understand what has been written...70 people have replied..
But I will not give up...
Maybe I just need a personal teacher ..

te gato


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## JennR

I am a mimic, and I am a visual learner as well, and when I say that, I don't mean from a reading stand point, but rather being shown how to do something. I don't really equate it with "book learning".  One can read a book and still gain no understanding.

I think it was Agnes that said just jump in. I think that is the way to go. That's how I learned how many things. Just jump in, make mistakes, and fix them with occasional guidance.

Also, getting over ones fears about making mistakes. This was a major hang-up of mine when I was trying to learn French in high school. I didn't want to make a mistake in front of my classmates for fear of being laughed at. Well, I'm the one that ended up missing out. Now I wish that I had been more fearless.

However, I can learn to read a language, though it's probably not a good idea to try to pick up 3 at a one time, but that's the trick with medieval documents, sometimes they are written in several different languages all in the same paragraph/document so you have to work with what you have. It has been a terrific learning experience. I pick up similar words: sella, sela, selle, sattel, saddle, zadel. (this is a mix of romance and germanic languages for the same word)

For learning purposes, I have tried putting stickies on objects in my kitchen. The sticky describes the container and the contents with a phonetic pronounciation key. Good for learning vocaulary but not sentence structure.

I love this board and find it and the people on it, a wonderful resource.


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## celiaglam

Hello Gaer!

When I was in college, I took a class on Second Language acquisition/learning and we used this really good book: _Second Language Learning and Language Teaching_. It is published by Arnold. It has a whole chapter on "Learners as Individuals" and models of second language learning. Very interesting!
peace,
celiaglam


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## JLanguage

I myself am having trouble furthering my Hebrew learning. I posted some questions in a Hebrew language forum and I am having a tough time understanding the responses even with Babylon Pro as an aid. I just wish I had been more motivated when I had had Hebrew class every day. 

I suppose that if I truly wanted to improve my colloquial Hebrew I could speak it with the members of my family who know it, but it is very difficult for me to do this because I am so used to speaking in English.

Additionally, I am now disenchanted with my decision to take Latin in lieu of Spanish or French. If I was taking either of those two languages I could have the pleasure? of speaking a new language, which is largely absent from my Latin class.

Maybe I could I sign up for Spanish as an additional course if I manage to become organised enough to handle the additional work. 

As to the subject of learning styles, I find myself benefiting from a mixture of visual and auditory approaches. If I only read Hebrew and learn Grammar than my conversational ability stagnates, but if I converse in Hebrew and listen to spoken Hebrew as well as learn vocab and write Hebrew compositions, than my Hebrew improves in all areas. I still difficult understanding high-level spoken Hebrew as well as written Hebrew above an elementary level.

I have often what wondered my language skills would be like if I had grown up in a bilingual or even trilingual environment. Unfortunately, here in the states, aside from immigrant families, a monolingual English background is the norm. I wish to mention that I have not yet met anyone with a bilingual background of Hebrew and English who has equal capacity in both languages. 

What I wish to know is this: 
What is the maximum number of languages that one can learn as a small child and be able to use naturally and fluently all learnt languages. What I mean by this is: 

Could I have learnt Hebrew, English, Spanish, French as a child and now use them naturally, or is there a limit to a child's innate capacity to assimilate language?

That's my overly long $0.02
Cheers,
-Jonathan.


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## garryknight

I started to put together a short article in reply to this thread but, like Topsy, it just grew and grew. And grew. And then it grew some more. So I thought it best to put it on my website. So I'll quickly answer a few points here, then give you the URL and you can browse it at your leisure and, if you would be so kind, give me some feedback on it here.

Like some of the others that have posted, I'm a pattern detector. Whatever it is I'm learning, either I quickly start to spot patterns, in which case I get on well, learn quite quickly, and retain an interest in what I'm learning; or I don't find it easy to find patterns, in which case I do badly, don't learn as much, and find the whole process boring. But unlike the other pattern detectors who have posted, I was only OK at math (or maths, as we Brits call it). However, I had a flair for learning languages at school (Latin, French, Russian - lots of lovely patterns) despite hardly doing a stroke of work from age 11 to age 18. In fact, thanks to my ability to detect patterns, I was 2nd in my class in Latin, and in the top 10 in French and Russian, and got good marks in both written and oral exams. However, that was a long time ago and I've forgotten almost all of the Latin and Russian and retained little of the French. However, the Latin made it really easy to learn Spanish, which is almost all an evolved form of Vulgar Latin with a few Gothic and French words mixed in.

Like other pattern detectors I have an ear for music (which may be at least partly hereditary - my father was a pianist in a jazz band during the time of the 2nd world war). My uncle brought a guitar round to our house when I was about 12. I picked it up and started picking out tunes on it. Very quickly I learnt how to make chords and play some of the pop songs that were around. Later I learnt the names of the chords. Then I taught myself how to finger-pick. These days, I haven't picked up the guitar for quite a few years now. But I've kept my sense of pitch and interval. I'd take up air guitar but it would probably sound pretty old-fashioned these days... 

I'm also one of those increasingly common creatures known as a 'synaesthete' (spelling varies by country). That is, all numbers are different colours for me: 1 is sort of a mixture of light-brown and white, 2 is blue with a hint of cyan, 3 is orange, 4 is a maroony purple, 5 is grey, and so on. And not only numbers, but days of the week, months, letters of the alphabet, and all other words also have their own colour. And many of them have textures as well. I seriously doubt that this has any bearing on language learning. I just threw it in because I was interested to know whether any of you are synaesthetes and whether any of you do think it has a bearing on language learning.

*gaer*: you mentioned some kind of 'loss of memory' some time before you were 14. I don't know if you're aware of it but at about that age a person's brain goes through a kind of rewiring process where very many existing connections between neurons are lost and others are formed. It partly explains why people go through some degree of personality change around that time (although massive hormone release tells most of that particular story), but I've never heard of, or read any reports of, anyone having serious memory loss other than through some kind of trauma (e.g. brain damage or shock).

You also said that while you may know the structure of a language fully, you're not so hot on actually speaking it. I can relate to that; I'm starting to be reasonably OK with writing Spanish (as long as I've got my dictionary right here) but I know I'd be slow at using it in a live one-to-one situation. But then I've had no practice except exchanging a few words with a waitress at one of my favourite cafes. I think the answer is to keep practising. If you're slow at first, so what? People won't be impatient with you if they know you're learning their language. And if they are impatient, they're not the kind of people you'd want to talk to anyway. As you know the structure, you'll put sentences together and be understood, and you'll get positive feedback that lets you know you were understood, and next time it will be a little easier, and the time after that, and pretty soon you won't have to think so much about the structure.

Anyway, I've done some thinking about language learning and put together some of my own thoughts together with what I've learnt from others, plus what I'm already using, and I've written an article which you'll find here.


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## El Hondureño

As for me, in any foreign language, I have to see it written, then hear, then hear lol.
I'd say it terrible then I'd have to say it at home. So I guess I'm slow lol


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## Monkling

sperdomo said:
			
		

> Even though I don't have a real ability with languages like Artella, I am so stubborn that I am hopeful that I will eventually learn anyway.


I'm counting on that stubborn gene as well.


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## gaer

Garry said:
			
		

> *gear*: you mentioned some kind of 'loss of memory' some time before you were 14. I don't know if you're aware of it but at about that age a person's brain goes through a kind of rewiring process where very many existing connections between neurons are lost and others are formed. It partly explains why people go through some degree of personality change around that time (although massive hormone release tells most of that particular story), but I've never heard of, or read any reports of, anyone having serious memory loss other than through some kind of trauma (e.g. brain damage or shock).


I'm very well aware of the link between puberty and the way the adult brain works. My point is that the loss I experienced was unusually big, not that it was the result of any kind of trauma. The peculiar "problem" I have has never stopped me from learning except when other people give me advice on how to learn, and I attempt to follow their advice (something I stopped doing long ago). 

Furthermore, I have never been particularly interested in speaking another language, but I think you misinterpreted my point. I spent two week in Berlin, and during that time I not only spoke to people there, I acted as an interpreter for a young student staying with a family, because the host "mother" could not speak English, and he could not speak German. I was not fast, and it gave me headaches, but I can speak German, if I need to.

People assume that I have special problems using a new language. I don't think I do. I don't have Art's talent, but she is a special case. And considering the fact that I taught myself German, whatever strange quirks my brain has did not prevent me from learning. It merely meant that I had to tailor my self-education to the way my brain works, and not to the way that others work. 

But I will be very interested to read the article you have written. 

Gaer


----------



## gaer

celiaglam said:
			
		

> Hello Gaer!
> 
> When I was in college, I took a class on Second Language acquisition/learning and we used this really good book: _Second Language Learning and Language Teaching_. It is published by Arnold. It has a whole chapter on "Learners as Individuals" and models of second language learning. Very interesting!
> peace,
> celiaglam


It sounds like a fascinating book. I think it probably just says what we all know: different people learn in a different way, and if you use a method for yourself (or teach another person) that is wrong, it simply won't work.

Gaer


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## gaer

outsider said:
			
		

> I was taught foreign languages by sentences: "What's your name? / My name is...?", "How old are you? / I'm ... years old", "Where do you live? / I live in ...", and so on. I think this is how it's normally done, at least when you're just starting to learn a language. Grammar and even pronunciation came later.


I see your point, but that was not what I was talking about when mentioning short packets of words.

I was thinking of things like this:

"Wie dem auch sei…" (Be that as it may…)
"Ich wünschte, ich hätte…" (I wish I had…)
"Ich hätte es besser wissen sollen…" (I should have know better…)

Not only do I know hundreds or perhaps thousands such "packets", I'm not aware of trying to learn them. It just happens. Simply by reading, I absorbed them. Once I could read them, I could use them with just a little bit of thinking. Once I used them, they stuck.

I'm not sure what your conclusion will be from this, because I'm not sure I know myself what it means, but don't little children also begin saying short phrases? Granted, they are not going to be sophisticated (be that as it may), but how different is that from "Look at the pretty kitty." 

Gaer


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## gaer

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Bonjour Monkling !
> My techniques are :
> - Never translate in your mind, but just dive into the foreign language and then try and speak, even if you make mistakes
> - Keep your ears open and try and catch easy words and phrases (daily ones)
> - If you are a visual learner : read, read, read !!  and find (if you can...) foreign films in original version.


Point, Agnes:

The advice "never translate in your mind" was the single most damaging thing I was ever told. In other words, it doesn't work for those people who do not learn as you do. That was my biggest reason for starting this thread. This idea about how to learn a language caused me to flunk Spanish in high school and convinced me that I was too stupid to learn a language.

Diving into a language, for me, is like a person who can't swim diving into deep water. In other words, I drown! 

But the other point you made, read, read, read, THAT is perfect for me and is always what works. If you have read other posts, you will see that I'm not alone. Other people start reading first, move to sound later.

It is a complicated subject, isn't it?
====
To everyone else who wrote: I can't reply to each person who addressed a post to me, because I would end up answering about 15 messages, and that would be no good for this discussion. Please keep going though!

I think that seeing how other people learn is very good for all of us, because we see that there is no right or wrong way to learn a language, merely ways that work or do not work for individuals!

Gaer


----------



## Outsider

gaer said:
			
		

> I see your point, but that was not what I was talking about when mentioning short packets of words.
> 
> I was thinking of things like this:
> 
> "Wie dem auch sei…" (Be that as it may…)
> "Ich wünschte, ich hätte…" (I wish I had…)
> "Ich hätte es besser wissen sollen…" (I should have know better…)
> 
> Not only do I know hundreds or perhaps thousands such "packets", I'm not aware of trying to learn them. It just happens. Simply by reading, I absorbed them. Once I could read them, I could use them with just a little bit of thinking. Once I used them, they stuck.
> 
> I'm not sure what your conclusion will be from this, because I'm not sure I know myself what it means, but don't little children also begin saying short phrases? Granted, they are not going to be sophisticated (be that as it may), but how different is that from "Look at the pretty kitty."
> 
> Gaer


I'm like that, too. I suspect that most people learn by sentences _and phrases_, not word by word.


----------



## Outsider

garryknight said:
			
		

> I started to put together a short article in reply to this thread but, like Topsy, it just grew and grew. And grew. And then it grew some more. So I thought it best to put it on my website. So I'll quickly answer a few points here, then give you the URL and you can browse it at your leisure and, if you would be so kind, give me some feedback on it here.


I liked it.  
You misspelled _habláis_.


----------



## Artrella

Outsider said:
			
		

> I liked it.
> You misspelled _habláis_.




And you mispelled M-I-*S*-P-E-L-L-E-D  !!!! HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!


----------



## Outsider

Not according to dictionary.com!


----------



## Artrella

Artrella said:
			
		

> And you mispelled M-I-*S*-P-E-L-L-E-D  !!!! HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!



      
UUUHHHH SOOORRRYYY BUT IN THE END I LEARNT MYSELF!!!! 

Definition
*misspell   * verb [T] misspelled or UK misspelt, misspelled or UK misspelt 
to fail to spell a word correctly

misspelling   [Show phonetics]
noun [C or U]
This essay is full of misspellings.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)


Artrellllaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!


----------



## CBFelix

JLanguage said:
			
		

> What I wish to know is this:
> What is the maximum number of languages that one can learn as a small child and be able to use naturally and fluently all learnt languages. What I mean by this is:
> 
> Could I have learnt Hebrew, English, Spanish, French as a child and now use them naturally, or is there a limit to a child's innate capacity to assimilate language?
> 
> -Jonathan.



here is the answer, from my kid. There is absolutely no limit.. 

My daughter, Jasmien, 5 years old.. I talk with her Turkish, her father talks Flemish (Dutch), at home common language between my husband and me is English, plus cartoons talk English too. We live in Rio de Janeiro so she speaks Portuguese and she goes French School. She is only 5 years old and speaks 4 languages fluently – Dutch, Turkish, English and Portuguese, French, she is learning .. 
And..  her first word was in Urdu ! (we were in Pakistan then)

From the beginning we kept our line straight. I always and always talk Turkish with her and father does the same with Dutch. For her , it is so natural that everybody speaks different. Imagine, what an impact this will have in her life. 

Last weekend we were somewhere full of Argentineans. After a while she started to talk Spanish with them. She was repeating and imitating other kids.!!  

Children can learn like that, very easily …


----------



## garryknight

Outsider said:
			
		

> I liked it.
> You misspelled _habláis_.



Thanks, and thanks.


----------



## gaer

Outsider said:
			
		

> I'm like that, too. I suspect that most people learn by sentences _and phrases_, not word by word.


It's logical, because if this is the way children learn, why shouldn't we all?

The fact is that we do a lot of right things for children that we don't do for anyone else. Just think how we teach toddlers. We start out with one word. We repeat it over and over. Then we add words. We repeat short phrases over and over. We speak clearly. We point to what we are talking about. We start out with things, not concepts. 

Gaer


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## gaer

CBFelix said:
			
		

> here is the answer, from my kid. There is absolutely no limit..
> 
> My daughter, Jasmien, 5 years old.. I talk with her Turkish, her father talks Flemish (Dutch), at home common language between my husband and me is English, plus cartoons talk English too. We live in Rio de Janeiro so she speaks Portuguese and she goes French School. She is only 5 years old and speaks 4 languages fluently – Dutch, Turkish, English and Portuguese, French, she is learning ..
> And.. her first word was in Urdu ! (we were in Pakistan then)
> 
> From the beginning we kept our line straight. I always and always talk Turkish with her and father does the same with Dutch. For her , it is so natural that everybody speaks different. Imagine, what an impact this will have in her life.
> 
> Last weekend we were somewhere full of Argentineans. After a while she started to talk Spanish with them. She was repeating and imitating other kids.!!
> 
> Children can learn like that, very easily …


The most amazing thing is that children keep the languages straight too. They don't mix them up!

Gaer


----------



## lsp

Artrella said:
			
		

> UUUHHHH SOOORRRYYY BUT IN THE END I LEARNT MYSELF!!!!


Easy way to remember... The prefix and the word when combined  do not eliminate a double consonant that may be formed as the result. 
Example:
mis + spell = misspell
ir + regular = irregular

 Lsp


----------



## JLanguage

CBFelix said:
			
		

> here is the answer, from my kid. There is absolutely no limit..
> 
> My daughter, Jasmien, 5 years old.. I talk with her Turkish, her father talks Flemish (Dutch), at home common language between my husband and me is English, plus cartoons talk English too. We live in Rio de Janeiro so she speaks Portuguese and she goes French School. She is only 5 years old and speaks 4 languages fluently – Dutch, Turkish, English and Portuguese, French, she is learning ..
> And.. her first word was in Urdu ! (we were in Pakistan then)
> 
> From the beginning we kept our line straight. I always and always talk Turkish with her and father does the same with Dutch. For her , it is so natural that everybody speaks different. Imagine, what an impact this will have in her life.
> 
> Last weekend we were somewhere full of Argentineans. After a while she started to talk Spanish with them. She was repeating and imitating other kids.!!
> 
> Children can learn like that, very easily …


 
I sincerely envy your daughter, having grown up in an almost completely monolingual environment, I feel like I am at a severe disadvantage only having one natural language.


----------



## gaer

JLanguage said:
			
		

> I sincerely envy your daughter, having grown up in an almost completely monolingual environment, I feel like I am at a severe disadvantage only having one natural language.


This is a point I keep making. We in the US who wish to learn more languages are at a terrible disadvantage. 

Gaer


----------



## Benjy

mm.. interesting thread. i see language as a sysyem with rules. just liek a linear set of simultaneous equations.. its solvavable you just have to know the rules. same with computing languages. you just have to follow the rules. the only problem is whilst in maths things always follow the rules languages being human constructs tend to be rather imperfect in that respect. i think a successful second language learner is going to draw on many different techniques if he wants to succede. practice is essential.. i *knew* french grammar a long time before i could apply it fully. many people *know* how to drive a car.. it doesn't mean that they don't ever stall it  you can also get ahead of the child by learning the rules of the system other than by listening. i managed to "crack" french as it were in about a year of practice (everyday) and reading the dictionary and a grammar book. i wan tto try the same thing with german but life seems to be getting in the way :s


----------



## Agnès E.

Well, i'm not so sure that the differences between adult leaners are not set from the beginning of life. I mean, I know several examples of bi-lingual families in which both cases have been seen : some children learnt very easily, as if their brains were sponges, natural language absorbing utilities... and some others were like blocked, they could not say a word before the age of 3 or even 4, although they understood every word in both languages. The psys all said that these children "did not want to choose between both languages, between mother and father", well, they felt being forced to choose in some way between both parents...  Strange, isn't it ?
After that age, they "chose" one language and spoke only this one, although they understood each word of the other one, but they replied in the language they "had chosen". And they remained very bad in learning foreign languages. Then : is this ability/unability only functional or also psychological ?


----------



## gaer

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Well, i'm not so sure that the differences between adult leaners are not set from the beginning of life. I mean, I know several examples of bi-lingual families in which both cases have been seen : some children learnt very easily, as if their brains were sponges, natural language absorbing utilities... and some others were like blocked, they could not say a word before the age of 3 or even 4, although they understood every word in both languages. The psys all said that these children "did not want to choose between both languages, between mother and father", well, they felt being forced to choose in some way between both parents...  Strange, isn't it ?
> After that age, they "chose" one language and spoke only this one, although they understood each word of the other one, but they replied in the language they "had chosen". And they remained very bad in learning foreign languages. Then : is this ability/unability only functional or also psychological ?


Agnes, I had not heard about that, but doesn't this show how different people are, even as infants?

I think we generalize too much about human beings, even children.

G


----------



## gaer

Benjy said:
			
		

> mm.. interesting thread. i see language as a sysyem with rules. just liek a linear set of simultaneous equations.. its solvavable you just have to know the rules. same with computing languages. you just have to follow the rules. the only problem is whilst in maths things always follow the rules languages being human constructs tend to be rather imperfect in that respect. i think a successful second language learner is going to draw on many different techniques if he wants to succede. practice is essential.. i *knew* french grammar a long time before i could apply it fully. many people *know* how to drive a car.. it doesn't mean that they don't ever stall it  you can also get ahead of the child by learning the rules of the system other than by listening. i managed to "crack" french as it were in about a year of practice (everyday) and reading the dictionary and a grammar book. i wan tto try the same thing with german but life seems to be getting in the way :s


Benjy, I suspect you learn in a way that is very similiar to my own way, which is probably why your explanations of why things in French work as they do "click" for me.

Gaer


----------



## mjscott

The school where I teach is 88% Hispanic. That means, that even in my ENGLISH classroom, most of the kids speak Spanish at home. In my SET classroom, I use Sheltered English Techniques--which is to supplement speaking with both a picture-rich environment (for visual learners) and a literature-rich environment on subjects at all levels (for readers). Our newest training is in GLAD--which is Guided Language Acquisition Design. Not only do you make things picture-rich and word-rich, you create poems and picture books together (yes, even in middle school). Another strategy used by teachers to transition students from Spanish to English is TPR--Total Physical Response.

I wasn't sure this poem thingamabobber was going to fly with middle-schoolers, but I remembered the songs I had learned the words for (I believe as Cuchuflete that usually language comes easier for someone who is musical--or maybe audial input influences audial learners more) in Spanish and how I would turn the phrasing over in my mind to make it make sense--analyzing its structure.

Surprisingly, the more of your senses you can get involved in the process of learning a language, the better it "sticks" in your mind. I shook my head at some of the poems my kids recited in math class under different circumstances, and how they could then apply math principles that in years past had gone in one ear and out the other. Same with science.


----------



## Agnès E.

gaer said:
			
		

> Agnes, I had not heard about that, but doesn't this show how different people are, even as infants?
> 
> I think we generalize too much about human beings, even children.
> 
> G



Yes, this is exactly what I meant. Children are like adults, some learn a way, some another way. Some are good in some topics, some are better in other topics. I'm not convinced that it is just a question of "living in a multilanguage environment". Sorry, I did not express my thought very clearly...


----------



## Outsider

We probably should distinguish between multilingual _environment_ and multilingual education. For instance, I listen to a lot of English, because in my country foreign TV shows (which are mostly in English, nowadays) are subtitled rather than dubbed. I believe that this helps me to keep my knowledge of the English language alive. However, I was only taught one language as a child, so I was not brought up as bilingual.


----------



## Like an Angel

Hey Gaer! so you have shared your theory here, Great!!

I didn't know about this thread till now, well as I told you I'm a mimic -I think- but learning a new language is not difficult for me. What I always do is _translate in my mind_, so I don't know why teachers say that we shouldn't do it, it is easier for me to learn a word -or a sentence- if I can understand it very well, interpreting it in my mind... what I think I can't do is thinking in each language as Artis does, I go to my Portuguese class and try to speak in that language but I'm always thinking in Spanish, when I left that class I go to my French class and do the same, thank God I take Japanese and Italian class in different days , but the same happens with those languages too. What it helps me too much to learn language is my memory, but I'm always trying to_ link_ the language that I learn with mine, don't know which way my brain works but I get on well with it


----------



## PSIONMAN

I've enjoyed reading this and on e point that comes over is the love that so many people have for languages. I'm relatively new to this. I too have a mathematical/musical/pattern recognition type mind. But I was terrible at languages at school (French/Welsh/Latin) and failed all exams. 40 years later, I faced the demon and now I love doing Spanish and I'm off to French next.

My question is, (and it might be off topic) when can we say that can 'speak' (i.e. speak/read/write/understand) another language? This is not as trivial as it sounds. Until I started to learn Spanish, if someone said they could speak Spanish I took it at face value. Now I'm not so sure. I have enough to read more or less anything, to follow the gist of most conversations or radio programs and I can write slowly with a dictionary. I can talk enough to get by (order a meal and argue with the waiter over the bill) but I look longingly at those other learners who just open their mouths and out comes a stream of words even though it might not be perfect. But I still seem to clunk and part way through a sentence I realise that my 10 year old's vocabulary and grammar is no match for the ideas I want to express. Because of this I cannot bring myself to say I speak Spanish even though all my family and friends are in little doubt that I do. Does anyone empathise with my experience?


----------



## Outsider

I think it's difficult to ever master a second language completely. If you think about it, some people aren't entirely comfortable in their own native language, either. I often feel that I write Portuguese in a stiff and clichéd way. I admire the people who come up with the most creative words and figures of speech almost effortlessly.
It seems to be an innate talent, but you can at least improve your style, with a little effort. Reading always makes my command of foreign languages better.


----------



## Artrella

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> My question is, (and it might be off topic) when can we say that can 'speak' (i.e. speak/read/write/understand) another language? This is not as trivial as it sounds. Until I started to learn Spanish, if someone said they could speak Spanish I took it at face value. Now I'm not so sure. I have enough to read more or less anything, to follow the gist of most conversations or radio programs and I can write slowly with a dictionary. I can talk enough to get by (order a meal and argue with the waiter over the bill) but I look longingly at those other learners who just open their mouths and out comes a stream of words even though it might not be perfect. But I still seem to clunk and part way through a sentence I realise that my 10 year old's vocabulary and grammar is no match for the ideas I want to express. Because of this I cannot bring myself to say I speak Spanish even though all my family and friends are in little doubt that I do. Does anyone empathise with my experience?




Sure psionman!!  Speaking is the worst part of the process of learning a language!! But this happens with your own language... Producing words that reflect our thoughts is a very difficult activity... If not, pay attention to how many people say this "I cannot put in words my feelings..." this is not mere coincidence, this is what really happens.  It happens to me all the time... I've been studying English since I was 12 - WOW!!- and sometimes when I talk to my friends, my tongue is tied... and I cannot say what I really am thinking at that moment... but I am not disappointed because this is natural to happen, this is the way our brain works.  Of course, there are people with a "quicker tongue" but all the same it is more difficult for them to speak than to read or write....


----------



## danzomicrobo

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> I've enjoyed reading this and on e point that comes over is the love that so many people have for languages. I'm relatively new to this. I too have a mathematical/musical/pattern recognition type mind. But I was terrible at languages at school (French/Welsh/Latin) and failed all exams. 40 years later, I faced the demon and now I love doing Spanish and I'm off to French next.
> 
> My question is, (and it might be off topic) when can we say that can 'speak' (i.e. speak/read/write/understand) another language? This is not as trivial as it sounds. Until I started to learn Spanish, if someone said they could speak Spanish I took it at face value. Now I'm not so sure. I have enough to read more or less anything, to follow the gist of most conversations or radio programs and I can write slowly with a dictionary. I can talk enough to get by (order a meal and argue with the waiter over the bill) but I look longingly at those other learners who just open their mouths and out comes a stream of words even though it might not be perfect. But I still seem to clunk and part way through a sentence I realise that my 10 year old's vocabulary and grammar is no match for the ideas I want to express. Because of this I cannot bring myself to say I speak Spanish even though all my family and friends are in little doubt that I do. Does anyone empathise with my experience?


 
As I go through the process of learning a foreign language, I realize that I am still learning my native language, so I think that your situation is natural.

I think that our proficiencies are directly related to how much time we spend engaging in activities in the language we are trying to learn.

While I have never felt at a loss of words in English, the quality of my writing in English improved tremendously as the quality of what I was reading improved.  I can only assume that the same is true with a foreign language that one is trying to learn.


----------



## Kelly B

Now that my children have turned my brain to gelatin, I am not nearly so eloquent, even in English, as I was when I had more frequent conversations with intelligent adults about more varied topics. This is particularly true in speech, when I frequently search for the perfect word. And because I have, or had, a large vocabulary, I just KNOW that there is a better word than the one I am finally forced to use. That is intensely frustrating. This, in my native tongue. Argh. It is dramatically worse, of course, in French! I can read well, and write adequately; but conversing has become pretty difficult.

I do not remember words well if I only hear them. I prefer to learn visually, from books. After learning the words, then I am a good mimic (with a good sense of musical pitch; I think this is a common combination). At my best, French people could clearly tell that I was not a native speaker, but didn't guess that I was American.


----------



## Merlin

Well on my part, I can learn a language faster by hearing it first. Listening on how the words are used and finally how to write them. Honestly, The hardest part for me is the writing and reading. It's easier for me to say or use it rather than reading or writing.


----------



## Philippa

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> My question is, (and it might be off topic) when can we say that can 'speak' (i.e. speak/read/write/understand) another language? This is not as trivial as it sounds. Until I started to learn Spanish, if someone said they could speak Spanish I took it at face value. Now I'm not so sure. I have enough to read more or less anything, to follow the gist of most conversations or radio programs and I can write slowly with a dictionary. I can talk enough to get by (order a meal and argue with the waiter over the bill) but I look longingly at those other learners who just open their mouths and out comes a stream of words even though it might not be perfect. But I still seem to clunk and part way through a sentence I realise that my 10 year old's vocabulary and grammar is no match for the ideas I want to express. Because of this I cannot bring myself to say I speak Spanish even though all my family and friends are in little doubt that I do. Does anyone empathise with my experience?


Hello Psionman!
Oh yes, I empathise all right!! I've just come back from Spain and although maybe I'd have thought my Spanish was at a similar level to yours, I'm not so sure now. Someone (a stranger) did ask me a month ago, did I speak Spanish? (I was reading a Spanish book at the time) and I said yes (well actually, sí!!  ). It was the first (and now probably the only!!) time I've answered a straight yes to that question. Like you, my husband thinks I’m fluent (Ha ha!!) because I can appear to have a normal conversation in Spanish (he can’t tell that the Spanish person is understanding me but politely ignoring my mistakes!!). I don’t think I can necessarily follow the gist of any conversation or TV program. Only if I have an idea already about the topic, do I understand much. A couple of my Spanish friend’s family/friends said to her (once they’d tried talking to me) ‘But you said she could speak Spanish!’. She explained to them that if they used lots of colloquial language, spoke really fast and swallowed bits of words, I couldn’t understand. I used to think I could understand spoken Spanish quite well and it was speaking I was poor at, but now I think both are near impossible in reality. I watched almost the entire episode of Operación Triunfo on Thursday night (well, it _is_ a topic in my Spanish text book!!) and I understood much, much less than half of what was said. I empathise with the ‘clunking’ too. I also wish that I were more willing to have a go at speaking rather than worry about mistakes.

¡Anímate, Psionman! Todavía es divertido aprender y es útil hablar un poco de castellano!!  
Un saludo desde Reading
Philippa


----------



## la americana estudiante

maybe someone could give me a little help.  im not sure what my style is but im sure i need to improve it.  i moved to florida a yr ago and ended up in a neighborhood where i was the only american.  everyone was mexican so i quickly decided to try and learn spanish.  i bought a dictionary and a self teaching book and hopped on the wagon. my spanish is not great and my vocabulary is lacking but i get my point across.  for example:  instead of saying,"pass the peas please", i would say, "give me those green things please".  is this a bad sign?  i learned how to put together sentences and then let ppl correct me.  this is where my problem comes in.  im no longer around any of those ppl and im way past spanish 1.  i dont know how to pick up where i left off.  any suggestions?


----------



## phlegyas

I learn a language more effectively(English is my second language, or third if you will <because I am a native speaker of Kapampangan, and Filipino may very well be my second language.>) through reading works written in that language, and by watching movies and tv programs in that language. 

I learn more of the English language even as I watch non-American movies. Unlike other people, I don't have problems watching and understanding a movie filled with subtitles. As a matter of fact, I feel very comfortable watching foreign movies with subtitles because these movies make me feel like I understand the movie better compared when I just listen, and of course, watch. However, there is an easy problem that arises in this situation. When I try to focus on the caption, I find myself looking less on the action going on the screen, and thus depriving myself of one important aspect of film viewing.


----------



## Merlin

la americana estudiante said:
			
		

> maybe someone could give me a little help. im not sure what my style is but im sure i need to improve it. i moved to florida a yr ago and ended up in a neighborhood where i was the only american. everyone was mexican so i quickly decided to try and learn spanish. i bought a dictionary and a self teaching book and hopped on the wagon. my spanish is not great and my vocabulary is lacking but i get my point across. for example: instead of saying,"pass the peas please", i would say, "give me those green things please". is this a bad sign? i learned how to put together sentences and then let ppl correct me. this is where my problem comes in. im no longer around any of those ppl and im way past spanish 1. i dont know how to pick up where i left off. any suggestions?


Well you can start by posting your concerns in the Spanich only forum. I'm sure thay can help you learn spanish. It's just a suggestion. Wait for the others. I'm sure they have a better idea. And before I forget, Welcome to the forum!!!


----------



## la americana estudiante

yes  i have been posting in the spanish forums too and i just like to  get different views on everything.  thanks!!


me


----------



## cmc76

Hi there! When I met my husband I couldn't speak english at all and he wasn't able to speak italian. Well I've learn to speak and I understand english very well now. The difficult part is to write it down. I'm trying to learn...hopelly soon.


----------



## cmc76

Sorry, I mean hopefully.


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## Skaioo

every single way to learn that you've mentioned has a theory....


I study english pedagogy and I know many of'em... right now I don't feel like explaining but they apply to all what you've said. 

It's interesting how you may learn according to what a certain author said.. so find about it


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## mayale

I have no musical ear, I am not a good mimic, I certainly have not a good memory and I am lazy. Nevertheless I speak, or shall we say, I can communicate in 5 languages (I even write pretty well in 3 of them too). The first three were learned during childhood, by osmosis. I can guess but I am not sure which was my mother tongue. The fourth one was learned, I suppose by the sheer stubborness of my teacher, followed by living in the corresponding country. Whereas the 5th one was done by immersion in the language/culture with a bit of scholarly support. That is, a bit of grammar here and there, without choking the life out of the language student! As a result I believe that I have learned them only because I needed them. Whether one can generalise from that, I don't know.


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## jolynnn

for me, whenever people say something in spanish, i'll look for it in the spanish-english dictionary. and then i'll find patterns (like if it's male or female and stuff like that). after that, whenever i learn a word, i'll remember it and keep thinking about it for a week or so to make sure that i can remember. so yeahh.


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