# Urdu, Hindi: To talk back



## Cilquiestsuens

Hi,   I was asking someone today how do you say : to talk back (as in children arguing with you while they shouldn't).    The reply I got was: aage se bolnaa.    Ex:  voh laRkaa har vaqt aage se boltaa hai.    This one sounded a tad weird to me. I thought there was another expression. Just can't remember it....


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## Qureshpor

The usual one I would say is "javaab denaa" (to answer back) but I am sure there must be an even more idiomatic verb for this purpose.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Thank you Qureshpor Sahab for... answering back so promptly. Well, javaab denaa was what I said to someone talking about a child and that person apparently didn't understand what I meant, although the context was clear. Hence my query... You didn't express any opinion about aage se bolnaa, doesn't it sound halaal enough to your ears???


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## Qureshpor

^ No it does n't sound kosher to me! Let's see what other friends say about this query.


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## Alfaaz

Cilquiestsuens said:
			
		

> Hi, I was asking someone today how do you say : to talk back (as in children arguing with you while they shouldn't).



For situations and scenes like these, you'll often hear dialogues like the following in Urdu dramas: 

!بےباک، ناخلف، بدتمیز! سر اٹھا کر / نظر ملا کر (آگے سے) جواب دیتا / دیتی ... زبان لڑاتا / لڑاتی ... چلاتا / چلاتی ... (فضول) بحث مباحثہ کرتا / کتری ... ہے
_
be-baak, naa-xalf, bad-tameez! sar uThaa kar/nazar milaa kar (aage se) jawaab detaa/deti ... zabaan laRaataa/laRaati ... chalaataa/chalaati ... (fuzuul) baHth mubaHathah kartaa/karti ...hai!_


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## marrish

[Urdu] زبان درازی کرنا _zabaan-daraazii karnaa_.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Alfaaz said:


> For situations and scenes like these, you'll often hear dialogues like the following in Urdu dramas:
> 
> !بےباک، ناخلف، بدتمیز! سر اٹھا کر / نظر ملا کر (آگے سے) جواب دیتا / دیتی ... زبان لڑاتا / لڑاتی ... چلاتا / چلاتی ... (فضول) بحث مباحثہ کرتا / کتری ... ہے
> _
> be-baak, naa-xalf, bad-tameez! sar uThaa kar/nazar milaa kar (aage se) jawaab detaa/deti ... zabaan laRaataa/laRaati ... chalaataa/chalaati ... (fuzuul) baHth mubaHathah kartaa/karti ...hai!_



Thanks Alfaaz Saahab. I love the language of Urdu dramas. It is a pity that most people don't speak like this anymore. I really think they should!!!

Moreover, with the new craze in PK of Turkish dramas, Urdu dramas seem to be endangered now! What people seem to like in these Turkish dramas is the real-life feel to it, including the much less elegant (dubbed) Urdu used in them... sigh.......



marrish said:


> [Urdu] زبان درازی کرنا _zabaan-daraazii karnaa_.



Another expression I hear a lot here is *mu.nh-maarii karnaa* *منہ ماری کرنا* . Would you classify this as good Urdu or Gulaabi one???


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## marrish

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Another expression I hear a lot here is *mu.nh-maarii karnaa* *منہ ماری کرنا* . Would you classify this as good Urdu or Gulaabi one???


It's Urdu but of a slangish kind and it does not mean ''to talk/answer back'' but to quarrel or argue. I would never use it for children.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Thanks marrish Sb. for the input!

I was just wondering, could you use jawaab denaa in a sentence showing how it should mean: 'to talk back'?

When I used it that day, the person thought that I said that the said kid was '_*answering questions*_', which sounded like a good point for him, while I meant: '_*he talks back*_'. 

In Punjabi, I have just learnt, they say: ''_*agge to.n bolda ai*_'' hence the first suggestion I was given in Urdu was a _*gulaabii*_ one:

_*aage se boltaa hai*_*, or a literal translation from Punjabi. 

Can we say in Urdu : *Yeh bachchah aage se javaab detaa hai...*

Is there any way to disambiguate it?


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## Wolverine9

There's also _baḥs̤ karnā_ "to argue."


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## Cilquiestsuens

Thanks Wolverine Sb. baHath karna sounds like a good addition to my list.


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## marrish

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Thanks marrish Sb. for the input!
> 
> I was just wondering, could you use jawaab denaa in a sentence showing how it should mean: 'to talk back'?
> 
> When I used it that day, the person thought that I said that the said kid was '_*answering questions*_', which sounded like a good point for him, while I meant: '_*he talks back*_'.
> 
> In Punjabi, I have just learnt, they say: ''_*agge to.n bolda ai*_'' hence the first suggestion I was given in Urdu was a _*gulaabii*_ one:
> 
> _*aage se boltaa hai*_*, or a literal translation from Punjabi.
> 
> Can we say in Urdu : *Yeh bachchah aage se javaab detaa hai...*
> 
> Is there any way to disambiguate it?


Thanks for the feedback on '_aage se bolnaa_'. Now it seems that you are attempting at a fusion between it and _jawaab denaa_. Since QP SaaHib has been the proponent of _jawaab denaa_, it is perhaps the wisest to let him answer this question; for me _zabaan–daraazii karnaa_ or as Alf. SaaHib has suggested, _zabaan chalaanaa_ are the words that are equivalent.

In Urdu I would understand _aage se_ as 'in the future' or 'in advance', besides a trasposition on English idioms.


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## Alfaaz

Cilquiestsuens said:
			
		

> Thanks Alfaaz Saahab.


 You're welcome Cilquiestsuens SaaHib. Just realized that there is a typo _xalf _→ _xalaf_.



			
				Cilquiestsuens said:
			
		

> In Punjabi, I have just learnt, they say: ''_*agge to.n bolda ai*_'' hence the first suggestion I was given in Urdu was a _*gulaabii*_ one:
> 
> _*aage se boltaa hai*_*, or a literal translation from Punjabi.
> 
> Can we say in Urdu : *Yeh bachchah aage se javaab detaa hai...
> *
> Is there any way to disambiguate it?


Others (like Faylasoof SaaHib) can hopefully verify whether the usage is correct or not, but there doesn't appear to be any _pink_ or_ rosewater _in this expression!*  

You could probably say: _yeh bachchah aage se *mujhe hi* jawaab de raha hai/baateN sunaa rahaa hai...apne baap/apni maaN ko...Hadd hi ho ga'ii!
_
In Punjabi, one seems to hear _aggeoN/aggoN boldaa (or phoNkdaa) ae/zabaan chalanda ae/maiN nu hi jawaab peyaa denda ae_. _agge toN bolda ae_ sounds a bit odd (like a translation from Urdu), since _agge toN_ is usually used for آئندہ_ aa'indah_. Example: _agge toN maiN ko'ii shikaayat (or shakait) na sunaaN_. Qureshpor SaaHib and others will hopefully shed light on whether _agge toN _would be correct.


			
				marrish said:
			
		

> In Urdu I would understand _aage se_ as 'in the future' or 'in advance', besides a trasposition on English idioms.


That is really interesting marrish SaaHib. We always prefer using آئندہ، اگلی مرتبہ، دوبارہ، وغیرہ - _aa'indah_, _agli martabah_, _dobarah, waghairah_ for _"in the future, etc."_, while_ aage se_ is usually used for directions.* Then again, we do use expressions like_ "aage chal kar..."_.

*Note: It seems what may be _correct _for some might be _gulaabi_ for others! The opinions presented above are merely based on observation, which would obviously be different for every individual.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> [...]
> In Urdu I would understand _aage se_ as 'in the future' or 'in advance', besides a trasposition on English idioms.





Alfaaz said:


> [...]That is really interesting marrish SaaHib. We always prefer using آئندہ، اگلی مرتبہ، دوبارہ، وغیرہ - _aa'indah_, _agli martabah_, _dobarah, waghairah_ for _"in the future, etc."_, while_ aage se_ is usually used for directions.* Then again, we do use expressions like_ "aage chal kar..."_.[...]



آگے آتی تھی حال دل پہ ہنسی
اب کسی بات پر نہیں آتی

غالب

Here Ghalib is using "aage" for past.

ابتدائے عشق ہے روتا ہے کیوں
آگے آگے دیکھئے ہوتا ہے کیا

میر

Miir is using "aage" for future.


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Hi,   I was asking someone today how do you say : to talk back (as in children arguing with you while they shouldn't).    The reply I got was: aage se bolnaa.    Ex:  voh laRkaa har vaqt aage se boltaa hai.    This one sounded a tad weird to me. I thought there was another expression. Just can't remember it....


 I'm afraid this is completely unidiomatic if not incorrect! We would actually consider it quite incorrect.

The above suggestions by our colleagues here, such as _*zabaan daraazi*_ (marrish SaaHib), _*bebaak *_ [or *bebaakii - *depending how one uses these], etc. (Alfaaz SaaHib), are the ones we use often, esp. the former (*zabaan daraazii karnaa*). Also, _*jawaab denaa*_ (QP SaaHib) is also used but _zabaan daraazii _is something we go for to make it emphatic.

Another would be *sarkashii karnaa / sarkash honaa. 

woh laRKaa zabaan daraazii / sarkashii / be-baakii kar rahaa hae 
*
If this behaviour persists then we can also say: _*woh laRKaa jhig-jhig kar rahaa hae *_


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## Alfaaz

Qureshpor SaaHib, you seem to have misattributed a quote (the first one was by marrish not Alfaaz). Perhaps, one of us is misunderstanding the other. Would you consider the following correct:_ "khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _? It could be that I misunderstood what marrish SaaHib was originally saying!


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Qureshpor SaaHib, you seem to have misattributed a quote (the first one was by marrish not Alfaaz). Perhaps, one of us is misunderstanding the other. Would you consider the following correct:_ "khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _? It could be that I misunderstood what marrish SaaHib was originally saying!


Alfaaz SaaHib, I don't know how this error has occurred but I have fixed the quote. I have n't had the need to quote for some time now and I've almost forgotten how this is done!

Well, if "aage" can mean "in the future", then I can't see why "aage se" can't imply "From a point in the future". One can compare this with "pahle" and "pahle se".


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## Faylasoof

> .....Would you consider the following correct:_ "khabardaar! *aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii *to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _? It could be that I misunderstood what marrish SaaHib was originally saying!


  A good example of bad Urdu! 

_*aage se kuchh karnaa *_is typical of what I heard from non-native Urdu speakers when growing up. Using such expressions was explained to me as poor Urdu to mean going something in the future. The argument is this. To do something _*aage se *_would imply the opposite of doing something _*piichhe se - *_which would be equally bad Urdu in the present context that we are discussing unless of course one is talking of activities which are naturally performed from that end or other meanings such as coming / attacking from behind = *piichhe se Hamlah karnaa , *or _*aage se Hamlah karnaa*_ = to attack from the front etc. Examples such as these are of course Urdu proper.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof Sb., for reasons unknown to me, while reading your post I thought of expressions that might be obsolete and that i am not sure how to use exactly: *mun.h aanaa.*.. wouldn't that be pretty much synonymous with *zabaan chalaanaa*...?

Could you use this *mun.h aanaa*  in a sentence?


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Faylasoof Sb., for reasons unknown to me, while reading your post I thought of expressions that might be obsolete and that i am not sure how to use exactly: *mun.h aanaa.*.. wouldn't that be pretty much synonymous with *zabaan chalaanaa*...?
> 
> Could you use this *mun.h aanaa*  in a sentence?


 Cilquiestsuens Sb, the expressions you mention are not at all obsolete, esp. _*zabaan chalaanaa *_is used quite a lot and can mean _talk back _but also _argue generally_ but in a rude manner. In fact,_* zabaan chalaanaa *_and _*zabaan daraazii karnaa *_are synonymous while _*sarkashii karnaa *_can mean the same but also means _to rebel_  in a political sense.  

_*muuNh aanaa*_ is also still used by us at least and that too means _to talk rudely_  , but generally you are correct that you may not hear it that often, certainly less so than zabaan chaalaanaa / daraazii karnaa but can be used instead of these. However, it also means to talk insolently and may or may not be a result of someone talking back: 

_guftuguu ke dauraan woh to muuNh aa gayaa_ = he became rude (insolent)  / talked rudely (insolently) during the discussion --- this could mean talking back.
_woh to shuruu3 hii se muuNh aa gayaa _ = from the very start he became rude --- i.e. he started being rude and insolent with no rhyme or reason and not necessarily an example of talking back. Most often this distinction would not be made since to talk back means to be insolent anyway.

BTW, there is another meaning for *muuNh aanaa *= _*muuNh aa jaanaa *_= _to have the thrush _!


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## Cilquiestsuens

Thank you very much for clarifying this point.


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## Faylasoof

Most welcome!


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> A good example of bad Urdu!
> 
> _*aage se kuchh karnaa *_is typical of what I heard from non-native Urdu speakers when growing up. Using such expressions was explained to me as poor Urdu to mean going something in the future. The argument is this. To do something _*aage se *_would imply the opposite of doing something _*piichhe se - *_which would be equally bad Urdu in the present context that we are discussing unless of course one is talking of activities which are naturally performed from that end or other meanings such as coming / attacking from behind = *piichhe se Hamlah karnaa , *or _*aage se Hamlah karnaa*_ = to attack from the front etc. Examples such as these are of course Urdu proper.


We know that "aage" is used for the past as well as the future by Urdu speakers. In addition the post-position, be it spacial or temporal, is usually understood and therefore there is no need to include it with "aage". In fact one could say that that the "-e" inflection changes the noun "aagaa" to the adverb "aage". 

LuGhatu_nnisaa' compiled by Maulavii Sayyid Ahmad SaaHib Dehlavii and published in 1917 is a book that describes the language of "دہلی کی بیگموں، قلعہ معلیٰ کی شہزادیوں، عام شریف خاتونوں ، متوسط الناس مستورات ، ہندو لیڈیوں۔۔۔۔۔"

For "aage" eight separate meanings are provided. No 5 and 6 are given as follows.

5) آئندہ، بعد ازیں، اِس کے بعد، اب، اِس کے پیچھے، اِس وقت سے، بعد اِس کے،  جیسے

آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے

آگے تمھاری سمجھ رہی

6) پھر، دوبارہ ،۔۔۔ جیسے۔۔۔

آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا

Clearly, in this example, one could say that in reality 6) is an extension of 5) because the sentence quoted means nothing short of  aa'indah (se) aisii baat nah karnaa..or

aage (se) aisii baat nah karnaa


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> We know that "aage" is used for the past as well as the future by Urdu speakers. In addition the post-position, be it spacial or temporal, is usually understood and therefore there is no need to include it with "aage". In fact one could say that that the "-e" inflection changes the noun "aagaa" to the adverb "aage".
> 
> LuGhatu_nnisaa' compiled by Maulavii Sayyid Ahmad SaaHib Dehlavii and published in 1917 is a book that describes the language of "دہلی کی بیگموں، قلعہ معلیٰ کی شہزادیوں، عام شریف خاتونوں ، متوسط الناس مستورات ، ہندو لیڈیوں۔۔۔۔۔"
> 
> For "aage" eight separate meanings are provided. No 5 and 6 are given as follows.
> 
> 5) آئندہ، بعد ازیں، اِس کے بعد، اب، اِس کے پیچھے، اِس وقت سے، بعد اِس کے،  جیسے
> 
> آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے
> 
> آگے تمھاری سمجھ رہی
> 
> 6) پھر، دوبارہ ،۔۔۔ جیسے۔۔۔
> 
> آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا
> 
> Clearly, in this example, one could say that in reality 6) is an extension of 5) because the sentence quoted means nothing short of  aa'indah (se) aisii baat nah karnaa..or
> 
> aage (se) aisii baat nah karnaa


 I am well aware of the different uses of aage -and for that matter piichhe! It all depends on how one uses aage! In the sentence we have been discussing it is not considered proper Urdu. In the sentence you present " آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے aage tumheN ixtiyaar hae" it is fine as it really means "aage chal ke tumheN ixtiyar hae" so yes we can use aage and we too use it like this but in the " good example of bad Urdu" I point above we wouldn't use it, preferring instead words such as aa'indah / aa'indah se / aglii baar / aglii dafa3  etc.

BTW, the thread title is "talk back" not "aage" !


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> I am well aware of the different uses of aage -and for that matter piichhe! It all depends on how one uses aage! In the sentence we have been discussing it is not considered proper Urdu. In the sentence you present " آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے aage tumheN ixtiyaar hae" it is fine as it really means "aage chal ke tumheN ixtiyar hae" so yes we can use aage and we too use it like this but in the " good example of bad Urdu" I point above we wouldn't use it, preferring instead words such as aa'indah / aa'indah se / aglii baar / aglii dafa3  etc.
> 
> BTW, the thread title is "talk back" not "aage" !


Yes, true we are not talking about "aage" but just one final point. Alfaaz SaaHib's sentence "_"khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _is identical to example 6)

آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا

and therefore there is nothing wrong whatsoever with using such a sentence.


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> Faylasoof said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am well aware of the different uses of aage -and for that matter piichhe! It all depends on how one uses aage! In the sentence we have been discussing it is not considered proper Urdu. In the sentence you present " آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے aage tumheN ixtiyaar hae" it is fine as it really means "aage chal ke tumheN ixtiyar hae" so yes we can use aage and we too use it like this but in the " good example of bad Urdu" I point above we wouldn't use it, preferring instead words such as aa'indah / aa'indah se / aglii baar / aglii dafa3 etc.
> 
> BTW, the thread title is "talk back" not "aage" !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, true we are not talking about "aage" but just one final point. Alfaaz SaaHib's sentence "_"khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _is identical to example 6)
> 
> آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا
> 
> and therefore there is nothing wrong whatsoever with using such a sentence.
Click to expand...

  I think you missed the point I was getting at. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough. As I said there are different uses of _aage_ (or for that matter_ piichhe_)  and it depends how it fits in a sentence. In the sentence under discussion (_khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to ..._) _aage_ sounds rather ridiculous since a certain activity is being considered that opposite of which would imply that it is permissible to eat the cookie _piichhe se_! We all know what that means!  Rather_ bhonDii urduu_ !


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## Wolverine9

Could the "aage se..." example be a case of a difference in usage between Lakhnavi Urdu vs. the Urdu and Hindi of other regions?


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## marrish

^ I don't think so. The Urdu of Lucknow is (was) the same standard Urdu as the one of Delhi or other places and the one we speak till this day. Of course for a language that is spread oves such a vast territory and has hundreds of millions speakers, I would be ashamed if it was same everywhere. I have no idea about Hindi but it is inevitable it has its uses of aage or aage se, so it would be nice if you could contribute some examples for comparison, with transliteration if possible. Thanks.


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## marrish

marrish said:


> (to Cilquiestsuens SaaHibThanks for the feedback on '_aage se bolnaa_'. Now it seems that you are attempting at a fusion between it and _jawaab denaa_.[...]In Urdu I would understand _aage se_ as 'in the future' or 'in advance', besides a transposition on English idioms.





Alfaaz said:


> [...]That is really interesting marrish SaaHib. We always prefer using آئندہ، اگلی مرتبہ، دوبارہ، وغیرہ - _aa'indah_, _agli martabah_, _dobarah, waghairah_ for _"in the future, etc."_, while_ aage se_ is usually used for directions.* Then again, we do use expressions like_ "aage chal kar..."_.
> 
> *Note: It seems what may be _correct _for some might be _gulaabi_ for others! The opinions presented above are merely based on observation, which would obviously be different for every individual.





Qureshpor said:


> آگے آتی تھی حال دل پہ ہنسی
> اب کسی بات پر نہیں آتی
> غالب
> Here Ghalib is using "aage" for past.
> 
> ابتدائے عشق ہے روتا ہے کیوں
> آگے آگے دیکھئے ہوتا ہے کیا
> میر
> Miir is using "aage" for future.





Qureshpor said:


> We know that "aage" is used for the past as well as the future by Urdu speakers. In addition the post-position, be it spacial or temporal, is usually understood and therefore there is no need to include it with "aage". In fact one could say that that the "-e" inflection changes the noun "aagaa" to the adverb "aage".
> 
> LuGhatu_nnisaa' compiled by Maulavii Sayyid Ahmad SaaHib Dehlavii and published in 1917 is a book that describes the language of "دہلی کی بیگموں، قلعہ معلیٰ کی شہزادیوں، عام شریف خاتونوں ، متوسط الناس مستورات ، ہندو لیڈیوں۔۔۔۔۔"
> 
> For "aage" eight separate meanings are provided. No 5 and 6 are given as follows.
> 
> 5) آئندہ، بعد ازیں، اِس کے بعد، اب، اِس کے پیچھے، اِس وقت سے، بعد اِس کے،  جیسے
> 
> آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے
> 
> آگے تمھاری سمجھ رہی
> 
> 6) پھر، دوبارہ ،۔۔۔ جیسے۔۔۔
> 
> آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا
> 
> Clearly, in this example, one could say that in reality 6) is an extension of 5) because the sentence quoted means nothing short of  aa'indah (se) aisii baat nah karnaa..or
> 
> aage (se) aisii baat nah karnaa





Faylasoof said:


> I am well aware of the different uses of aage -and for that matter piichhe! It all depends on how one uses aage! *In the sentence we have been discussing it is not considered proper Urdu.* In the sentence you present " آگے تمھیں اختیار ہے aage tumheN ixtiyaar hae" it is fine as it really means "aage chal ke tumheN ixtiyar hae" so yes we can use aage and we too use it like this but in the " good example of bad Urdu" I point above we wouldn't use it, preferring instead words such as aa'indah / aa'indah se / aglii baar / aglii dafa3  etc.
> 
> BTW, the thread title is "talk back" not "aage" !





Qureshpor said:


> Yes, true we are not talking about "aage" but just one final point. Alfaaz SaaHib's sentence "_"khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to phir raat ko dessert ke liye mazeed kuchh bhi naheeN milegaa!" _is identical to example 6)
> 
> آگے ایسی بات نہ کرنا
> 
> and therefore there is nothing wrong whatsoever with using such a sentence.





Faylasoof said:


> I think you missed the point I was getting at. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough. As I said there are different uses of _aage_ (or for that matter_ piichhe_)  and it depends how it fits in a sentence. In the sentence under discussion (_khabardaar! aage se tum ne baghair ijaazat cookie khaa'ii to ..._) _aage_ sounds rather ridiculous since a certain activity is being considered that opposite of which would imply that it is permissible to eat the cookie _piichhe se_! We all know what that means!  Rather_ bhonDii urduu_ !


The discussion has evolved in the direction of a tangent (aage se) and I hope I am not the culprit. Three gentlemen, Alfaaz, Qureshpor and Faylasoof ended up discussing Alfaaz's sentence (a good example of bad Urdu as per F. SaaHib) but it started closely to the topic. aage se bolnaa was put forth for criticism by the OP and as a Urdu speaker, forgetting my Punjabi for a while I said I would understand aage se bolnaa as talking in the future, from a certain point further on. Alfaaz jii said it was interesting and gave other ways of expressing this idea, which later got their confirmation from F. SaaHib – this is a point of no contention for anyone. Yes, these ways of defining some action from now on further are certainly OK with me. F. SaaHib has a point in deeming the cookie sentence weird or liable to misunderstandings but let it be so, the topic was 'aage se bolnaa' for to talk back so I won't indulge in cookie eating but ask the participants for their opinion about aage se bolnaa. How would you understand it? aage se mere saath aise nah bolo. What does it mean? 

I appreciate F. SaaHib's notions of idiom. Perhaps different people have different idiom but I can't imagine F. SaaHib's not understanding the expression, which is wrong if it was meant be the same as English to talk back, in the way I understood it. Mind you, I didn't say how I would say ''don't talk like this from now on'' but I told how I would understand 'aage se bolnaa'. 

Whatever be F. SaaHib's assertions or mine, no one is compelled to agree with them. There is however QP's input which is backed by the most authoritative sources of the Urdu idiom, that is the language of the Moghul ladies. Not for no reason one says mother tongue. In the context of aage se bolnaa these sources confirm to my contention that I got it right, that is to say aage se bolnaa is wrong for ''to talk back'' and can only mean ''to talk from now on''. I don't sincerely understand why this discussion had to take to expressions like ''bhonDii Urduu'', which may be right but I know a lot of other expressions to say I don't accept some usage. Well, to be frank, I share F. SaaHib's extrapolation to piichhe se and it was the reason I mentioned the possibility of transposition of a certain English idiom, NOT regarding aage se khaanaa but aage se bolnaa. Now it appears I have no other option than to be explicit. I had the same reverse thinking as F. SaaHib had when he expressed his worthy views of ''aage se khaanaa'' – 'aage se bolnaa'' is the opposite of talking out of one's arse. I had chosen to give a hint and say what I would understand of it on grounds of Urdu, that is something in the future ,but this twist of the discussion has made me exceed my limits. By the same, I refuse to say if it is proper Urdu what Alf. SaaHib proposed. The wiser have had already their say.


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## Faylasoof

_dostaan-e-3aziiz_,

In a nutshell, the word _aage_ can have both _temporal and spatial _usage, depending on how it is used. But _aage *se*_ is _spatial and not temporal_ in good, decent Urdu. Hence my extrapolation to the expression _piichhe *se* _(= *from* the back / from behind !) as opposed to _aage *se*_  (= *from* the front - _not_ in the future).

_*aage chal ke (aagee) *maiN yeh qaT3an nahiiN karuuN gaa_ = _In_ _*future*_ _I shall never do this _ --- temporal.
_is ko *aage* karnaa behtar ho gaa_ = _It'll be better to put it / move it forward_   --- spatial


_*aage se* maiN yeh nahiiN karuuN gaa_ = _I shall not do this *from the front*_ --- spatial
_is ko *aage se* karnaa behtar ho gaa_ = _It'll be better to do it_ _*from the front*_--- spatial 




BUT
_is ko *pahle / pahle se* karnaa behtar ho gaa_ = It'll be better to do this first ---- temporal 
_*aa'indah / aai'ndah se*_ _maiN yeh nahiiN karuuN gaa_ = _I shall not do it in future / From next time I shall not do it_ --- temporal
etc., etc.

... and we all know that both آگے _aage_ and اگلے _agle_ can refer to the past. QP SaaHib has already given the example of the former above and here is one for the latter:


ریختے کے تمہیں استاد نہیں ہو غالبؔ
کہتے ہیں* اگلے زمانے* میں کوئی میر بھی تھا
غالبؔ

We are indeed _not _talking of regional (dilli Urdu vs. lakhnawii Urdu) differences in the way we use aage vs. aage se !


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