# Etymology/All languages: Ark



## Whodunit

Hello, 

Noah built an ark to save the animals from the Deluge. So far, so good. However, what does _Arche_ mean exactly? All etymological dictionaries I have consulted so far tell me that it comes from Latin _arca_ meaning _box_, _chest _etc.That's what the dictionary say, but is that true and possible? Why did Noah called his vessel a _chest_?

My Latin/Greek teacher is not sure abotu the etymology either, so he asked me whether I could search for the translations in other languages, especially in the Classical Semitic languages (Classical Hebrew, Ancient Aramaic, Ancient Greek - at best recorded and not reconstructed), but also in the modern languages.

He also hypothesized that the origin of the word ark lay in Ancient Greek _ἀρχή_ (= beginning). That's plausible and is backed it by the German Wikipedia entry about Ark: 



 Wikipedia said:


> (from Greek _beginning, origin_; Hebrew _tevah_ box, chest ...


 
My own hypothesis would be that it is derived from Ancient Greek _ἄρκος_ (= shelter; defense), but unfortunately I can't find any back-up for this possibility. Let's see what you say about it.

Okay, after this long introduction, let me come to my questions:

1) How do you call the _Ark_ in _Noah's Ark_ in your language?
2) What does it translate into English?
3) Is that the only way to call it or are there other (maybe archaic/classic) designations for the _Ark_ in your language?
4) What can you tell us about the etymology?

_optional:_
5) What do you think about my teacher's and my hypotheses as opposed to the etablished etymologies of reliable dictionaries by profound linguists/archaeologists/etymologists? 
6) Can you offer your own attempt at a plausible etymology?

Thanks for all your contributions and the time you took to read this through.


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## deine

Hi Whodunit,

In Lithuanian we called it NOJAUS ARKA (which means _Noah's Ark) _or NOJAUS LAIVAS (which means _Noah's ship)._
About the etymology I don't know...


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## Ander

The use of the word ark as meaning chest or box (from Latin arca) is very simple to explain, Noah's boat is called like that in the Hebrew Bible.

The word for ark is tevah which means box or chest. Tevat doar is the post-office box for example and of course Tevat Noa'h is Noah's Ark. 
(The "t" at the end of tevah corresponds to English "of")


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## Whodunit

Ander said:


> The origin of the word ark as meaning chest or box is very simple, it is called like that in the Hebrew Bible.


 
Correct, but who decided to translate it as _Ark_ < _arca_ then? Why don't we call it _Noah's Tevah_ instead of using the Latin name?


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## karuna

In Latvian it is called _Noasa šķirsts. _But I have no idea about its etymology. _Šķirsts _means a chest or coffin but nowadays it is used only in religious context.


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## Ander

Whodunit said:


> Why don't we call it _Noah's Tevah_ instead of using the Latin name?



Holy scriptures are supposed to be written in elegant, lofty language. Would you translate Tevat Noa'h as Noah's box?

It could be that in very ancient Hebrew a box were also a ship, which is nothing else than a large box, chest or coffin.

The first Latin Bibles were translated from the Greek Septuagint not from Hebrew.

Here is what the Septuagint Genesis 6:14 says:  	

"ποιησον ουν σεαυτω κιβωτον εκ ξυλων"

"Make then to yourself a kibôtos out of wood".

We have now to look for the meaning of kibôtos which I guess means box. We notice that the word is different in aspect than Latin arca, so arca does not derive from a Greek word.


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## Frank06

Hi,


Whodunit said:


> Noah built an ark to save the animals from the Deluge. So far, so good. However, what does _Arche_ mean exactly? All etymological dictionaries I have consulted so far tell me that it comes from Latin _arca_ meaning _box_, _chest _etc.That's what the dictionary say, but is that true and possible? Why did Noah called his vessel a _chest_?


 
First of all, since Noah is probably not a historical figure, he probably didn't say a lot, and certainly not in Latin, since the tower of Babel had yet to be constructed .
Secondly, maybe there is a good reason why all those peer-reviewed dictionaries, compiled by academically trained professionals and used, reviewed, commented, by many more other academically trained professionals give the same etymology (at least in this case).
Thirdly, if I am not wrong, the Bible mentions _two_ 'arks', Noah's boat and the Ark of the Covenant. The latter was a kind of box, so the etymology ark < Lat. arca (<arcere, to contain, to enclose) is beyond any reasonable doubt.

IMHO, the question should have been: why did the writer(s) or probably rather the translators of the biblical stories use one word (*ark*) to refer to two different objects. I think that requires a theological answer rather than a linguistic one.

In Dutch:
1. ark = ark
2. ark = ark
3. in the context of Noah's story it's always ark.
4. see above (Latin arca)
5. "my teacher's and my hypotheses" not very convincing
*[edit: My apologies, I misread, I thought you both referred to ἀρχή; ἄρκος is considered as a possible cognate of Latin arca]
*6. "Can you offer your own attempt at a plausible etymology?" I am not into folk etymology, sorry .

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Ander

Frank

You are right to mention the existence of two arks in the Old Testament. 

Both carry the same name in Hebrew because they are both wooden boxes or chests, except that one is much larger than the other.

God in Genesis says to Noah to build a (large) box on which he has to put a deck and cabins under it. He is actually teaching how to build a ship to someone who does not know what it is and does not have a name for it. So he describes it in a way Noah can understand.


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## karuna

Frank06 said:


> Thirdly, if I am not wrong, the Bible mentions _two_ 'arks', Noah's boat and the Ark of the Covenant. The latter was a kind of box, so the etymology ark < Lat. arca (<arcere, to contain, to enclose) is beyond any reasonable doubt.



What is the original word for the Ark of the Covenant? The wikipedia says it comes from Hebrew _aron habrit _which seems to be different from _tevah _in Noah's Ark. So, it is probably the translators who used the same word, but why? Did they lack synonyms for the word "chest"?


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## irene.acler

In *Italian*:

1)  _Noah's Ark_ = L'arca di Noè
2) Arca = ark
3) We call it only in this way. 
4) As far as the etimology, here it is. 
For those who don't speak Italian: the Italian word "arca" comes from the Latin word "arca". In addition it makes reference to the Greek words arkein, arkos, alkein, al-alkein, alkè, and to the Sanscrit word raksami.

Hope it helps.


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## Ander

karuna said:


> What is the original word for the Ark of the Covenant? The wikipedia says it comes from Hebrew _aron habrit _which seems to be different from _tevah _in Noah's Ark. So, it is probably the translators who used the same word, but why? Did they lack synonyms for the word "chest"?



I checked in the Hebrew Bible. You are right it is the word aron which is used, not tevah.

I don't know the meaning of that word.


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## Whodunit

Ander said:


> I don't know the meaning of that word.


 
How is it written? If it is _ארן_, it means _pine_, and if it's written with a waw (_ארון_), the meaning should be something like _cupboard_, but maybe in Classical Hebrewm it was a name for any wooden chest.


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## Ander

It is written with a waw so it must be what you say. I only have a pocket Hebrew dictionary. For the English cupboard I found aron kelim which means cupboard for plates and dishes.


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## ireney

For "kibôtos" the etymological dictionary of Prof Babiniotis says (my translation):

unkonwn etymon, possibly a loan of semetic origin (see syrian quābāthā) although some believe that the syrian word comes from the Greek one. The Septuagint used it in translating tēbáh (used mainly for Noah's Ark and means "box, chest" and 'arṓn [mainly used as part of the phrase 'arṓn habberit " Ark of the Covenant" {or as we call it kibotos/chest of the Testament"}]).


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## RivkaS

Hi All,
I was invited to this thread and have not seen it by myself - so much for "late-coming" - and now let's get to work...

*Ander:* You are of course right with your explanation of "teva" and even before reading your post to the end, I also thought of the example "tevat doar", now to your problems with "aron" since we are talking about biblical Hebrew I use "Gesenius - Handwörterbuch des Alten Testaments, nach der 17. Auflage von 1915" (This only for the references since for the letter Alef there is a new Gesenius around since 10 years but I don't have it.) 
For ארון it gives "*Kasten*, *Lade*, Sarg, Mumienkasten, heilige Lade im israel. Heiligt." Interesting for us are the first two which translate into English as "box" and "chest" from the other words you can see that is also used to describe a coffin or the "box" for a mummy or the looked for "holy ark" so *whodonit* is right in his assumption that the word "aron" was used for any "box" which is "קופסה" (_koufsa_) in modern Hebrew which has its source in the targum and talmudic literature. I did not find a clear indication that it is Aramaic, but it might be, at any rate it is a later version of Hebrew. 
I hope that this helps a bit.
R.


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## Forero

My Bible dictionary says the Greek word for both kinds of ark and the Hebrew for (Noah's) ark both mean box or chest but are of unknown origin.  The Hebrew for Ark (of the Covenant) also means box or chest (or coffin) and derives from a word meaning "to gather" (aleph-resh-he).

My guess is that many translations are based on the Vulgate (Latin version) rather than on the Greek or Hebrew originals, and are therefore forms of _arca_.  I am also guessing that the Vulgate is based more on the Greek than on the Hebrew (it includes passages found in the LXX but not in the Hebrew) and probably translates the single Greek word for both arks.


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## Vanda

In Portuguese we say Arca de Noé, straight from the Latin: arca.


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## se16teddy

Ander said:


> God in Genesis says to Noah to build a (large) box on which he has to put a deck and cabins under it. He is actually teaching how to build a ship to someone who does not know what it is and does not have a name for it. So he describes it in a way Noah can understand.


 
Exactly.  And I think _The Box _is a great name for a vessel that was built not for speed but as a kind of giant multi-storey life raft, and built by a guy who had never built, and may even never have seen, a boat before.


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## PinkertonMysticism

I was reading up on some gnosticism/kabbalah/Hebrew the other day and according the gnosticteachings.com the word "ark" does not appear in the Hebrew scriptures at all, it stems from Latin. The Bible refers to two major "arks", Noah's boat in which the word "tebah" תבת is used and The Ark of the Covenant in which the word aron ארון is used. The Hebrew word *Aron* ארון, spelled Aleph-Resh-Vav-Nun means a chest, a container, a sanctuary, something to hold something and stems from the ancient Hebrew word "arah" which means to gather or pluck, to accumulate and in the Bible is related to the sacrifice or offering that the children of Israel are to make. This is the source of the word Aron, which is the place to hold the sacrifice or offering, the place the offering is placed, and in return God is to appear. The Ark of the Covenant was placed within the holy of holies of the temple but taken symbolically refers to your heart in which you are to purify in order for God to enter your temple body.


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## origumi

Let me try and clarify the biblical Hebrew context of Ark.

Teva תבה (or the construct tevat תבת) as in Noah's Ark is _box_. This word is mentioned in two places: Noah's story and also the box in which baby Moses was sent to the Nile. Its etymology may be related to Egyptian t-b-t = box, coffin.

Aron ארוך as in the Ark of Covenant is _closet_, _cupboard_. It's mentioned mainly to describe the Ark of the Covenant with several variations such as the Ark of Testimonial, the Ark of God, the Ark of Sacredness. In two places at least the word describes a box used to collect money in the Temple. Etymologicaly it may be derived (as mentioned above) from root a-r-a = to collect, gather, especially bee's honey.

Both words have the same meaning in modern Hebrew.


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## mdmiller

Anyone ever seen a reconstruction of the Ark built using the specs laid out in the Bible? Of course there is some room for interpretation...but they all bear a striking similarity to something RATHER "box-ish"  

Here's a couple samples:

*newcreationperson.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/684442050_5038af9f57.jpg*

*answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articleImages/2006/06/ham-ark.jpg*

Pretty box-like, huh?


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## robbie_SWE

In Romanian it's *Arca lui Noe*, from Latin _arca. _

In Swedish it's pretty much the same *Noas ark*. 

 robbie


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## Maroseika

The Russian word is ковчег, literally also meaning "case, box". Loaned from the Turc languages.


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## Orlin

Bulgarian: Ноев ковчег, lit. Noah's coffin. The etymology of ковчег is probably like in Russian.


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## XiaoRoel

*Arca* es palabra antigua en latín para designar un cofre, una caja, especialmente para guardar dinero. En el latín cristiano para a traducir *κιβωτός* 'caja de madera, cofre pequeño, préstamo en griego (hay una teoría que lo hace derivar del sirio) que vendría con el objeto nuevo que designaba. En griego este préstamo se usó para designar las dos arcas, la de Noé y la de la Alianza. El latín eclesiástico traduce con *arca* los dos usos de la palabra griega en la Biblia.
*Arca* en latín es palabra emparentada con el verbo *arceo* ('contener', 'mantener alejado') y el substantivo _*arx*_ 'acrópolis', 'defensa elevada'. Entre las lenguas indoeuropeas, sólo el _griego_ tiene una raíz claramente emparentada (la de _ἀρκέω_) y quizá el _armenio_ _argel_ 'impedimento' y las _lenguas bálticas_ (lit. _rakinti_ 'encerrar', _raktas_ 'llave').
*Del latín pasa al germánico* (gót. _arka_) y _*de éste al eslavo*_. Es _*panrománico*_ (menos rumano). También en *céltico* irl. _arc_, brit. _arch_.
_*En latín, como en griego, es antiguo, autóctono y con una amplísima familia de palabras que confirma su antigua latinidad.*_ No parece palabra de préstamo, y menos semítico.


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## robbie_SWE

Not to get off topic here, but can there be a connection between *arca* ("ark") and *barca *("boat") (words present in Italian _barco_, Romanian _barcă_, Spanish _barca_ etc.)? It kind of makes me think of the word _*embark*_ as well. 

Could they all be related to the Latin _arca_? 

 robbie


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## Alxmrphi

robbie_SWE said:


> Not to get off topic here, but can there be a connection between *arca* ("ark") and *barca *("boat") (words present in Italian *barco*, Romanian _barcă_, Spanish _barca_ etc.)? It kind of makes me think of the word _*embark*_ as well.



It's even closer in Italian, *barca*.

Etymonline says:
_*Ark*: O.E. *earc*, mainly meaning Noah's, from L. *arca* "large box, chest"_.
It also says about "_bark_" coming from Middle French "*barque*", which came from Late Latin "*barca*", whether that is linked to *arca* it doesn't say (or at least I can't find it ).

Like you suspected as well, it's_ *en*+barque_ (that then becomes _*embark*_ in English) with that notable assimilation in place of articulation to _-em_.
I had never thought about *ark* and *barca* being related, I'm glad it was pointed out  (I feel a bit sad for saying that, but hey!)


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## Frank06

robbie_SWE said:


> Not to get off topic here, but can there be a connection between *arca* ("ark") and *barca *("boat") (words present in Italian _barco_, Romanian _barcă_, Spanish _barca_ etc.)? It kind of makes me think of the word _*embark*_ as well.


If "arca" also has a Coptic origin, as is suggested for "barca" (and related words, English bark, barge), then we might have a connection .
Barca/bark and (dis)embark are related.

Frank


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## swift

Pour le rapprochement étymologique entre _barca_ et _barge_, voir : http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/bargehttp://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/barge/1

Voir aussi, concernant le mot _barque_ : http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/barque

Les attestations qui y sont présentées sont parlantes.


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*: _Nooan arkki_, so there's nothing special.


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## Abu Rashid

In Arabic it is:

سفينة نوح (safeenat Nooh, the ship of Noah)


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## Mahaodeh

Abu Rashid said:


> In Arabic it is:
> 
> سفينة نوح (safeenat Nooh, the ship of Noah)



Yes, but the Quran never uses the word safeena; it uses fulk فُلك, which means ship. It's derived from the root f-l-k which means "to turn in circles"; the fulk (ship was called so because it "maneuvers/turns easily in water"

In the Quran, Noa's Arc is called الفُلك المشحون = al fulk al mashHoon = the filled/loaded ship.


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## XiaoRoel

*Barca* es un derivado de βἀρυς, y es palabra del latín tardío. No veo la relación con *arca*. Que dos palabras se parezcan fonéticamente no es razón suficiente para establecer una relación. En mi nobre, de estirpe latina, no hay relación con el chino. Ninguna, pese a la homofonía.


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## Alxmrphi

XiaoRoel said:


> *Barca* es un derivado de βἀρυς, y es palabra del latín tardío. No veo la relación con *arca*. Que dos palabras se parezcan fonéticamente no es razón suficiente para establecer una relación. En mi nobre, de estirpe latina, no hay relación con el chino. Ninguna, pese a la homofonía.



But it's not just two words that sound alike.
I agree it would be sufficient evidence to suggest a link between two words that just sound alike, but we're talking about _barca_ (boat), in the Romance languages and Noah's _Ark _(which was a boat).

So the relation between _ark / barca_ is _*not just *_one of phonetic similarity, also semantically (vessels that travel on water).


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## Forero

Since_ barca_ comes from a "Coptic" word _barys_, all it shares with _arca_ is the_ ar_ and the modern meaning.


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## seyif

Mahaodeh said:


> Yes, but the Quran never uses the word safeena; it uses fulk فُلك, which means ship. It's derived from the root f-l-k which means "to turn in circles"; the fulk (ship was called so because it "maneuvers/turns easily in water"
> 
> In the Quran, Noa's Arc is called الفُلك المشحون = al fulk al mashHoon = the filled/loaded ship.



On Nile river they still use "felluka"s.

In modern Turkish;
Nuh'un Gemisi 
ark:gemi


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## 5zama

Mahaodeh said:


> Yes, but the Quran never uses the word safeena; it uses fulk فُلك, which means ship. It's derived from the root f-l-k which means "to turn in circles"; the fulk (ship was called so because it "maneuvers/turns easily in water"
> In the Quran, Noa's Arc is called الفُلك المشحون = al fulk al mashHoon = the filled/loaded ship.


In fact the Quran uses the word safeena to Noah's  Ship but The most commonly used is the word Fulk . Also called it al-jareah = الجارية , which means fast-moving, running .

But that as an adjective not as a name .


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## ancalimon

In Turkish we simply call it Nuh'un Gemisi which translates as Noah's Ship.

For Ark Of Covenant, we use Lahit Sandığı (Chest (and tomb) that is sunk in the ground)

The closest word to "ark" I can see in Turkic languages is AR.

If used as: AR IK, it gains the meaning we are AR, I am AR, 

the sound AR: carries many meanings in many different Turkic dialects around the world.

AR: weight, heavy, luggage, load, to host and many others.  These are the ones that could have a relationship.

Today in Turkey we still use ("ağır" la mak) meaning: to host, to put somebody in a place, to accept people to your house, etc.

Or we say: (Ağır lığınca altın)  meaning: full load of gold.

PS: AĞIR is spelled just like "ARE" but with a little bit longer A sound

Also "bark" means a construction, structure, building.

We say: "evli barklı" meaning: (married with "home, car, children and food&drink (with enough support) etc")

"bark" is also a Turkic word used for buildings that are build on kurgans on hills (ancient Turkic graves) among Middle Asia.


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## Mahaodeh

5zama said:


> In fact the Quran uses the word safeena to Noah's  Ship but The most commonly used is the word Fulk . Also called it al-jareah = الجارية , which means fast-moving, running .
> 
> But that as an adjective not as a name .



Really? Do you think you can quote it?


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## Abu Rashid

Mahaodeh said:
			
		

> Really? Do you think you can quote it?



سورة العنكبوت 
وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَىٰ قَوْمِهِ فَلَبِثَ فِيهِمْ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ إِلَّا خَمْسِينَ عَامًا فَأَخَذَهُمُ الطُّوفَانُ وَهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ
فَأَنجَيْنَاهُ وَأَصْحَابَ السَّفِينَةِ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا آيَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ	
​
29:14 We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty: but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.	
29:15 But We saved him and the companions of the Ark, and We made the (Ark) a Sign for all peoples!


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## bûcheuse514

It's called _Nojeva barka_ in serbian (_barka_ meaning _ship_), but I believe it is a loan from Romance languages...


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## MRossi

Whodunit said:


> He also hypothesized that the origin of the word ark lay in Ancient Greek _ἀρχή_ (= beginning).


This is what i always heard,however your hypotesis could be possible,i found on my ancient greek dictionary _ἄρκ_*ι*_ος,_*α*,ον_ (from ἀρκέω),_which means to move away, to push away,ensure,or also  to go away from evil,danger , to move away from evil,danger, to leave from evil,danger; to walk away from evil,danger;


On latin arceo means : (meanings nr 2 and 3) to move away,to protect,to defend.The meaning nr 1 is to shut,to lock,to fence.On latin we know that arca is something locked , a box and so on.

It is possible that the word jumping on latin partially lost the original meanings.

However i 'm waiting mr. artion that will be more precise than me.


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## artion

Challenge accepted. It seems that we have two questions: What is the etymology of _arc_, and why the Gr.  _kivotos_ (box) of the 70 was translated as _arc_. 
Τhe word αρχή has the stem αρκ- which combined with the -s- of various  suffixes it usually appears as letter ξ (pronounced ks), e.g. αρξις  (arksis, beginning). But I don't see the semantic connection between  beginning and box. The 70 who tranlslated the hebrew bible were  hellenized hebrews, i.e. they knew well both languages and cultures. If  they said "box" they meaned "box" in both languages .
Why the latins translated the box to arc? 
There is a Gr. word έρκος (erkos) meaning "wall, safety, protective surrounding".
http://books.google.gr/books?id=ItY...&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
(Etymologicum Graecae Linguae Gudianum)
It has also metaphorical meanings, like the poetic "erkos odonton" (the  row of the teeth). Therefore sounds like a reasonable etymology of _arc_ and a proper metaphore for the box which *protected*  Noah and life, as well as the Testament. In the post-Christ literature  the two words had to be the same, as the Noah's Arc and the Arc of  Covenant are both considered a paradigm of the protection that God  offers to the people, the one literal the other metaphorical. 

For further exploration, one may consider the words  άρκω (Αrko) or αλκώ  (alkO) "to help" and αρκώ (arkΟ) "to suffice". Although the latter  sounds proper for the Arc of Noah and is assumed to be the origin of  arktos (the animal bear) (>arctic) it is unlikely as an origin of the  general word _arc_. 
I prefer the explanation of _erkos_ in the sense of _protective cover_.


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## artion

XiaoRoel said:


> *Barca* es un derivado de βἀρυς, y es palabra del latín tardío.



Possibly. I think the correct Greek is βάρις (ship). Then there is the plural βάρεις meaning not only ships but also walls (see my previous post on ερκος), tunnels, towers, large and concave stones etc. This establishes a possible connection between distant words like barca/barco and barrier. 
This helped me to understand better the famous episode of the Persian Wars: The Oracle said to the Athenians that  "The *wooden walls* will *protect* you". Some took it literally, were barricated in the wooden wall of Acropolis and were massacred by the Persians. Themistokles explained the wooden walls as *ships* and destroyed the Persians in the naval battle of Salamis. 
So, it seems that this subconscious connection between ship and protective cover existed already in 5th c. BC.


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## artion

Well, no etymology research is complete without references to Homer. I opened my dusty paper Homeric Dictionary and found this:

verb _αρκέω (arkEo)_: to defend, repel (a threat), protect, help (somebody). Frequent in Homer, e.g. Od. 80, 261 "oud' *erk*ese thorex" (the cuirass did not protect him). 
n. & adj. _άρκιος (Arkios)_: the one who/which can protect or help, who offers hope and confidence, safe, secure. Fore example, in Iliad, 70, 502 "ou oi *arkion* esseitai fygeein kynas" (it is not sure (he will not have hope) that he will escape the dogs). And Il. 2, 393 "misthos de _arkios_ estai" (your reward will be secure). 
In the same dictionary, _arktos_ (bear) is explained as diminutive of the _Arkos_ (bear). Od. 30, 611. Doesn't explain why the bear is called so. The previously mentioned online dict. explains it through the alternative  meaning of _arkeo_ as "suffice", because bears survive the winter with their own deposit of fat. 
The Homeric Dict. also has the word _Erkos_ as barrier, fence etc. with the metaph. meaning of "_whatever offers protection from something"_.

So, Arc means Protection.


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## berndf

artion said:


> verb _αρκέω (arkEo)_: to defend, repel (a threat), protect, help (somebody).
> ...
> So, Arc means Protection.


1) I suppose we are still talking about _ark _and not about _arc _which is a different word with a (potentially) different etymology.
2) To arrive at that conclusion, you still need to demonstrate why Homeric Greek _αρκέω _should be the etymon of Latin _arca_.


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## artion

berndf said:


> 1) I suppose we are still talking about _ark _and not about _arc _which is a different word with a (potentially) different etymology.
> 2) To arrive at that conclusion, you still need to demonstrate why Homeric Greek _αρκέω _should be the etymon of Latin _arca_.




1) _Ark_ and _arc_ are probably of the same origin. The first seems to retain the greek spelling while the latter is the latinized version. In byzantin and  medieval Greek texts we find the word Άρκα with the meaning of Arca, i.e. treasury, a safe for something valuable, or simply a box, chest. Also Αρκάριος (treasurer).
(DuCagne, Glossarium Mediae & Infimae Graecitatis, vol. 2).
The meaning of Arc as a curve, bow is metaphorical, coming from the shape of walls, protective covers etc. as I tried to explain earlier (e.g. the Homeric "ark of the teeth"). 
It seems that the traslators of the Bible prefered the historical spelling as the _arc_ would sound vulgar or irrelevant. In modern times Ark and arc are used interchangably by many. For example, search for Joan of Ark. 

2) That conclusion came to me as obvious but nobody has to accept it. If you are asking for an algebraic kind of demonstration, this is something very rare in etymology.


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## Frank06

artion said:


> 1) _Ark_ and _arc_ are probably of the same origin.


Probably not:

arc: from PIE base *arqu- "bowed, curved"
ark: from PIE *ark-

Unless you have a medieval and hence more thrustworthy source which says otherwise.

F


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## berndf

artion said:


> 1) _Ark_ and _arc_ are probably of the same origin.


 


Frank06 said:


> Probably not:
> 
> arc: from PIE base *arqu- "bowed, curved"
> ark: from PIE *ark-


 Exactly.
@artion: The to-be-expected Greek reflex of PIE *arkw- would be _*αρπ-_ (compare Latin _equus_, Classical Greek _ἵππος_ and Mycenaean Greek _iqo_). You know Greek better than I do; maybe you'll find a suitable candidate in Homeric Greek.

___________________________________________________________




artion said:


> 2) That conclusion came to me as obvious but nobody has to accept it. If you are asking for an algebraic kind of demonstration, this is something very rare in etymology.


Since Latin did not evolve out of Greek, there is nothing obvious whatsoever about it and needs to be demonstrated on a case-by-case basis. Even if we accept_ αρκέω_ and _arca _to be cognate, we still can’t automatically assume the Greek meaning to be the _more original_ one.


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## artion

Frank06 said:


> arc: from PIE base *arqu- "bowed, curved"
> 
> Unless you have a medieval and hence more thrustworthy source which says otherwise.


Can you expand on that and give a source? I looked in the Koeln sanskrit dict. for "arc, bow, arrow, curve" and found nothing similar to "arqu".  There is one Sansk. word _Arka_, supposedly related to "arc" which means various thinds like ray, lightning, song, singer, sun, number 12 etc. but nothing like "bowed, curved", unless we connect etymology with general relativity. 
Then in this glossary of Indogermanic roots,
http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/indogermanischeswoerterbuch/idgA.pdf
 "*arku-" is given as the root of words meaning almost exclusively bows and arrows, therefore it is questionable if it is a real "root" and not a variation of ark in the sense of "protective perimeter".  Here the author includes the Gr. αρκευθος in the derivatives, which is a kind of shrub and, by the thousands of αρκευθος I have stumbled upon, is absolutely irrelevant to bows and arrows as a shape and as material. 
Thus, unless you know another trustworthy sanskrit dictionary, I don't see any convincing "Indo" word related to arc as bow/curve, I'm sure there is not any in Greek either, and  I couldn't find any in an old Russian/Slavonic dictionary (but we need a Russian speaker's opinion).


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## berndf

artion said:


> "*arku-" is given as the root of words meaning almost exclusively bows and arrows, therefore it is questionable if it is a real "root" and not a variation of ark in the sense of "protective perimeter".


Again, _*arkw- _is neither the "real root" of _ark_ nor a variation but a completely different word.

It means indeed _bow_ and _arrow_ and is the origin of the English words _arc, arch_ and _arrow_ but not of the English word _ark_.

Pokorny lists the PIE roots
_*areq- = to lock, to guard, to protect.
*arqu- = arc, arch, something bent._
(click)


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## artion

Can someone find the sanskrit word from *arqu- that justifies the "Indo"?


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## Frank06

What does "justify[ing] the Indo" mean?


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## artion

I thought that a P. _Indo_ - European root has to have derivatives in european and Indian languages. No?


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## berndf

Not necessarily. PIE is the name of a hypothetical language from which Indo-Iranian and European languages are derived. This does not mean that each and every root has to be traceable in all languages of the group. Sometimes a root of a proto language dies out in one decedent language but survives in another.


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## Frank06

artion said:


> Can you expand on that and give a source? I looked in the Koeln sanskrit dict. for "arc, bow, arrow, curve" and found nothing similar to "arqu". There is one Sansk. word _Arka_, supposedly related to "arc" which means various thinds like ray, lightning, song, singer, sun, number 12 etc. but nothing like "bowed, curved", unless we connect etymology with general relativity.


My source: etymonline.com.


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## mgrds

Hi there - I'm a new member of these forums.
 I can confirm that the posters above are accurate in their identification of the relevant Hebrew, Greek and latin words in the Biblical source texts.

However the assumption that the work Ark was an normally unused import from Latin or Greek that the translators pushed into the English Bible  is a false one.

The word Ark was in secular useage in the English language  long before the Bible was first translated in to English its etymology  being something like  ; Middle English ark ( e ), erke, Old English arc, earc ( e ) -  Old Frisian  erke, arke,  
Latin  arca  chest, coffer, derivative of arcēre  to safeguard, cognate with Hittite h̬ark-  hold, possess.

The English useage of Ark for a box or Chest is now archaic and only remains in relation to the Bible stories which have "preserved" a previously more commonly used word.  
However I consider it  is possible the more common secular useage is elsewhere preserved in the family name Arkwright - which would be a chest maker or cabinet maker.

Mark


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## aruniyan

If its long "A" ,

then some Tamil words that may be related with,

Aaram - Garland thats circular shaped
Aaramar - Safely residing
Aarkkum/Aarppa - Fully Covered / Covering action (of that bees covering on flowers)
Aarpu - Circumference,Ring
Aaraainthu - To research, Trying to uncover.
Aarvam - Desire to know more.


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