# I'd rather he had...



## yarka

Hello,

If I want to talk about some preferences in the past, for instance, could I say the following sentence?

"*I'd rather he had gone by air.*"

Is it correct?

Thanks!!


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## Magnalp

Yes, why would it not be correct?

"_I'd rather he had gone by air._" (= he did not go by air, but I would have preferred that he had done so).


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## andyj1019

The sentence is correct but "by air" sounds funny to me--perhaps "by airplane" (or whatever means of transportation you're referring to) would be better?


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## Wandering JJ

The sentence is correct. 'I'd rather he had flown' sounds more natural in BrE.


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## gringuitoloco

It is correct. It just means "by aerial means, such as plane, jet, helicopter, or what-have-you, as opposed to ground, sea, or space transportation."


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## Yluvatar

Hello,

What about these two sentences?
_I would rather he had gone by plane.
__I had rather he had gone by plane.
I would have rahter he had gone by plane.


_Are they correct? What would be the difference?

Thanks for helping.


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## Chris K

Yluvatar said:


> Hello,
> 
> What about these two sentences?
> _I'd rather he had gone by air.
> __I'd have rather he had gone by air.
> 
> 
> _What would be the difference?
> 
> Thanks for helping.



I don't think I've ever heard "I'd have rather he had gone by air" and it doesn't strike me as correct.


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## Archilochus

Chris K said:


> I don't think I've ever heard "I'd have rather he had gone by air" and it doesn't strike me as correct.



Nor me. But this is possible (if pretty highfalutin): I'd have rathered he had gone by air.


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## Agró

Archilochus said:


> Nor me. But this is possible (if pretty highfalutin): I'd have rathered he had gone by air.



So "rather" has become a verb.

What will be next?


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## sound shift

I've never heard or read "I'd have rather*ed* ..."


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## Chasint

Archilochus said:


> Nor me. But this is possible (if pretty highfalutin): I'd have rathered he had gone by air.


Sorry but rather is an adverb not a verb.

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
*rather*/ˈrɑːðə(r)/﻿ 
▶_adverb_

1 (*would rather*) indicating one's preference in a particular matter.


2 to a certain or significant extent or degree.


3 on the contrary.


4 more precisely.


5 instead of; as opposed to.

​http://www.wordreference.com/definition/rather


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## Archilochus

sound shift said:


> I've never heard or read "I'd have rather*ed* ..."



"would have rathered"

Google About 688,000 results


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## Chris K

There's an earlier thread on this issue, including a discussion of the Google evidence (such as it is) for "rathered":

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1550484


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## Gabriel

For what it's worth:



> Verb
> rather (third-person singular simple present rathers, present participle rathering, simple past and past participle rathered)
> (nonstandard or dialectal) To prefer; to prefer to.  [quotations ▲]
> 1984, Bruce Brooks, The Moves Make the Man:
> Until just before the pie was popped into the heat. A few of them suddenly realized who put that gorgeous hunk of crackers together, and gaped. We grinned back, but very cool. The ones who knew said nothing, rathering to die than let on they had been hustled by two negative dudes.
> 2002, Sarah Waters, Fingersmith:
> It was a plain brown dress, more or less the colour of my hair; and the walls of our kitchen being also brown, when I came downstairs again I could hardly be seen. I should have rathered a blue gown, or a violet one […]
> 2002, Elizabeth Bowen, The Heat of the Day:
> So you must excuse my saying anything I did: all it was, that up to the very last I had understood us all to be friendly — apart, that is, from his rathering me not there. How was I to know he would flash out so wicked?
> 2007, Mikel Schaefer, Lost in Katrina, page 323:
> "That was a killer," said Chris. "I'd rathered die in St. Bernard than spent one minute over there. I would have rathered the storm, shaking with the wind and rain hitting in the boat for an eternity than spending any time there.



http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rather


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## Archilochus

Agró said:


> So "rather" has become a verb.
> 
> What will be next?



  Well, I'm from the school that holds that legitimacy is conferred by usage -- it's not given from on high. Someone cited the Oxford English Dictionary. As much as I love that book, I am reminded of something I once heard Willard Quine, the great American philosopher of language, say: "What is the difference between an encyclopedia and a dictionary? In the encyclopedia the entries are longer."


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## Chris K

Archilochus said:


> Well, I'm from the school that holds that legitimacy is conferred by usage -- it's not given from on high. [...]



I agree in principle, but on the other hand there's a certain bar that has to be reached before something that gets classified as "an error" becomes accepted as a shift in the language. I personally have never heard "rather" used as a verb; most of Gabriel's examples sound jarring to me, although the Bowen ("So you must excuse my saying anything I did: all it was, that up to the  very last I had understood us all to be friendly — apart, that is, from  his rathering me not there") doesn't seem out of character with that kind of writing. At this point I'd probably classify it as "occasional, mostly British (?), non-standard." It's easy to see, however, how "I'd rather you wouldn't" could become "I rather you wouldn't," and "rather" would be taken as a synonym for "prefer." The rest would then follow logically. But I'm not there yet.


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## Chasint

Chris K said:


> ...At this point I'd probably classify it as "occasional, mostly British (?), non-standard."...


I would hate to think of the use of 'rather' as a verb as being British. I assumed it was Amercian!


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## Agró

Biffo said:


> I would hate to think of the use of 'rather' as a verb as being British. I assumed it was Amercian!


Praise the Lord. I knew it couldn't be British or American.

Now where is Amercian spoken? Amercland?


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## Gabriel

Chris K said:


> most of Gabriel's examples sound jarring


Thanks for that 

No wonder why "I" labelled "my examples" as "nonstandard or dialectal".


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## Chris K

Gabriel said:


> Thanks for that
> 
> No wonder why "I" labelled "my examples" as "nonstandard or dialectal".



Better: "most of the examples Gabriel cited..."


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## giuggiola91

is it correct to say "I wish he had gone"? do the two sentences carry the same meaning in this case?


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## sound shift

Yes, you can say "I wish he'd gone". It's the same as "I'd rather he'd gone".


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## giuggiola91

sound shift said:


> Yes, you can say "I wish he'd gone". It's the same as "I'd rather he'd gone".


thank you


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## FromPA

Archilochus said:


> "would have rathered"
> 
> Google About 688,000 results




"ain't got none"  - 1,150,000 google hits


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## aztlaniano

Agró said:


> So "rather" has become a verb.
> 
> What will be next?


The noun form is irregular: druther
Usually in the plural: If I had my druthers I would travel by train.


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## gringuitoloco

I don't understand the problem with "rather" being a verb.
No one had a problem with "I would rather..." which makes rather a verb. You can't put an adverb in the conditional.


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## levmac

gringuitoloco said:


> I don't understand the problem with "rather" being a verb.
> No one had a problem with "I would rather..." which makes rather a verb. You can't put an adverb in the conditional.



I never thought about this, but I guess "would" here is in the archaic sense, as a main verb expressing desire or regret. Rather is then added as an adverb.

I *would *you had not done that. -> I *would rather *you had not done that.


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## gringuitoloco

I've always distinguished between the two ways to use rather: as an adverb and as a verb.
In this sense, I've always considered it a verb meaning "to prefer."
"He didn't go to the store. Rather, he went to the beach." or "I would rather go to the store." Here, I see it as an adverb meaning something like "instead," or in the second case, "preferably."


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