# Macedonian: dialects



## lauralaurica

Zdravo!!
I'm a student of Slavistics in the University of Barcelona. I'm doing a comparation work about Slavic dialects. 
Now i'm working with dialects from Macedonia, but there's a lack of information, so I need your help...
I saw that there's a lot of dialects in Macedonia, not just north, west and east-south, but lower Polog, Kumanovo, Kicevo-Porece.. that is driving me mad. 
I have a list of words that I would like to use in my study, and if you know how they are said in the different dialects (they are listed on Wikipedia, but i can't link to them!), or as much as possible, you will help me a lot!! Those are the words: (in standard macedonian)

рака
што
еден
пет
свет
крв
глава
јазик
нога
река

For example, I read that on west dialects, /glava/ is pronunced /gla/; etc.

Thank you very much!!


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## iobyo

The classification of the dialects is as you've seen on Wikipedia. There are three main groups termed _наречја _(sing. _наречје_): northern, western and southeastern. They are divided based on certain isoglosses, the main one being the reflex of the Proto-Slavic _*ǫ_. The northern group has /u/, the western group mostly has /a/ and the southeastern group has /a/, /ə/ or a type of nasal vowel realized [ə̃] ~ [ə̃n] ~ [ə̃m] / [õ] ~ [õn] ~ [õm] depending on dialect.

Each group is further subdivided as follows:



 Northern group
Eastern subgroup
Kumanovo, Kratovo, Kriva Palanka and Ovče Pole
 
Western subgroup
Skopska Crna Gora, Lower Polog, Gora
 
 


Western group
Central subgroup
Prilep-Bitola, Kičevo-Poreče, Skopje-Veles
 
Peripheral subgroup
Upper Polog, Debar, Drimlkol-Golo Brdo, Galičnik, Reka, Vevčani-Radožda, Struga, Ohrid, Upper Prespa, Lower Prespa
 
 


Southeastern group
Eastern subgroup
Štip-Kočani, Strumica, Tikveš-Mariovo, Maleševo-Pirin
 
Southeastern subgroup
Solun-Voden, Ser-Drama-Lagadin-Nevrokop
 
Southwestern subgroup
Nestram-Kostenar, Kostur, Korča
 
 

All in all there are 29 dialects (_дијалекти_). 

Very rarely one might encounter a reference to a variety below that of dialect. The Prilep-Bitola dialect is quite large in that it includes the cities of Prilep, Bitola, Florina, Kruševo and Demir Hisar (and their villages). This book, for example, is about the variety spoken in the village Dihovo in the Bitola region.

EDIT: It might be worth mentioning that the furthest dialects (Maleševo-Pirin and Ser-Drama-Lagadin-Nevrokop) are transitional to the neighboring Bulgarian dialects, just as the Gora dialect is transitional to the neighboring Serbian dialect (Serbian linguists classify the eastern subgroup of northern dialects with adjacent Serbian and Bulgarian dialects as 'Torlakian').


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## iobyo

As for your word list, only a few can be applied (and based on their etymology).

I explained this in my previous post: _рака _(from Proto-Slavic _*rǫka_) is pronounced /ruka/ in all dialects of the northern group, most dialects of the western group have /raka/ except for a few (such as the Debar dialect) which has /roka/ and there is a fair bit of variation in the southeastern group: [rõŋka] in the Kostur dialect, /rəka/ or /raka/ in others and so forth.

_Еден _(from Proto-Slavic _*edinъ_) is pronounced uniformly across almost all dialects. Some dialects developed a prothetic /j/ but I do not know much about it.

The syllabic /r/ varies somewhat as well. So for _крв_ most dialects have [kr̩f] while others (ex. Debar dialect) have [korf]. The situation is similar with the syllabic /l/ (Standard Macedonian has the western reflex /ol/). 

_Глава _is also pronounced the same across most dialects. The elision you mentioned ([gɫaː]) is indeed characteristic of the western group where elision of this type (intervocalic consonants) is most prominent, but is present to some degree in all dialects (except some northern dialects which have "expansion", i.e. adding consonants between vowels). The earliest written examples of this type of elision are also of the western dialects.

Initial _*ję _in Late Proto-Slavic yielded [ja] in most dialects while others have [ezik] (Kumanovo dialect), [jezik] (Gora dialect) and [jẽnzik].


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## DenisBiH

iobyo said:


> _Глава _is also pronounced the same across most dialects. The elision you mentioned ([gɫaː]) is indeed characteristic of the western group where elision of this type (intervocalic consonants) is most prominent, but is present to some degree in all dialects. The earliest written examples of this type of elision are also of the western dialects.




Do you have more information about this? The elision of intervocalic consonants is present here as well; in fact I could conceive of saying glá'a colloquially.


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## iobyo

DenisBiH said:


> Do you have more information about this? The elision of intervocalic consonants is present here as well; in fact I could conceive of saying glá'a colloquially.



This post is quite interesting. Misirkov and Cepenkov also consistently avoided the intervocalic /v/.

The Prilep-Bitola dialect (especially from Bitola downward to Florina) has intense elision, so not only do we say [t͡ʃo.ek] for _човек_ but [co(a̯)m] for _ќе одам_.

There's also a joke where a person says _ќе одам на дрва_ but is misinterpreted as _ќе ја надрва_ ("I'll bone her").  

Another thing I find interesting is that _што правиш? _is always [ʃoprajʃ] when used as a greeting while [ʃto praviʃ] will only be understood literally as "what are you are doing?" almost with a challenging tone.


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## TriglavNationalPark

The discussion of intervocalic consonants in Bosnian has been moved HERE.


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## Bog Svarog

I'm from Skopje, and am a proud speaker of Skopian. I speak such a heavy Skopian dialect, that even people from Skopje tend to cry in outrage at my pronunciation of certain words. When Bulgarians hear me speak, they think that I'm from Serbia. 

рака = рука Note: plural becomes ruki
што = шо
еден = еен
пет = пет
свет = свет
крв = крв
глава = глаа
јазик = јазик
нога = ноа (unless it can be confused with нова, but this seems unlikely)
река = река

Other words:
велоципед (I've NEVER seen anybody use this, although this is the only word for bicycle that you will see in the dictionary) = точак
галаб = гулуб
полжав = пужав
газ = гз
сé = све
маж = муж
ќе = ке
јас = ја
затоа што = пошто
сега = сеа
постојан = стално
ова = оа
кажеш = каеш
зошто = зашо
веднаш = одма
долго = дугачко
педер = пеер This is an interesting one: it stems from "pederast", but the pedophilic connotation disappeared over time, rendering it "peder", which could be understood as "faggot". However, in the past decade, the slang "peer" has become an almost core word of Skopian. I recall a neighbour of mine saying it 7 times in one normal sentence, which wasn't even found funny by any of the bystanders, except me. Peer has a sort of "dude" meaning to it, but can be used just at random through sentences. Compare to "youknowwhatimsaying". The meaning of it has dilluted so much even, that it's common for girls to call eachother "peer"; telling Bulgarians how Macedonian girls call eachother pederasts is one of my favourite anecdotal staples (it always gets them staring in disbelief).

Note that in Skopian, a lot of the time, the "e" is pronounced as the "i" in English "in". When this occurs, it tends to be stretched out a bit. I would say that this is the biggest shibboleth of Skopian.


You'll have people saying that this isn't "real" Skopian, but merely a mix of Skopian with Serbian loanwords, but fact of the matter is that this is the "street language" of Skopje today, regardless of how it was 120 years ago.



iobyo said:


> Another thing I find interesting is that _што правиш? _is  always [ʃoprajʃ] when used as a greeting while [ʃto praviʃ] will only  be understood literally as "what are you are doing?" almost with a  challenging tone.


Very interesting point....now that I read this, I suddenly realize that this is the case.
Now my mission is to go out in town and say [ʃto praviʃ] to people; the looks on their faces will be memorable.


PS: I guess the same applies to Bulgarian "какво правиш" and "кво прайш".


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## DenisBiH

Bog Svarog said:


> што = шо
> кажеш = каеш



So, Sarajevan _"Ša kaeš?"_ translates to Skopian _"Шо каеш?"_? Nice, nice!


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## iobyo

Bog Svarog said:
			
		

> ќе = ке



Really?



			
				Bog Svarog said:
			
		

> сега = сеа



Во Битола сме бетер, велиме „са“. 



			
				Bog Svarog said:
			
		

> Note that in Skopian, a lot of the time, the "e" is pronounced as the "i" in English "in". When this occurs, it tends to be stretched out a bit. I would say that this is the biggest shibboleth of Skopian.



Ugh.

The /o/ is also very high.



DenisBiH said:


> So, Sarajevan _"Ša kaeš?"_ translates to Skopian _"Шо каеш?"_? Nice, nice!



We'd rather say _ш(т)о велиш_. 'Skopian' would be _ш(т)о викаш_.


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## Bog Svarog

iobyo said:


> Really?


Usually it's pronounced ќе in constructions like "ќојме", although this often gets slurred into "чојме".



> The /o/ is also very high.


I'll have to listen more carefully; I only pay attention to the "e" when I hear people talk. 




> 'Skopian' would be _ш(т)о викаш_.


Which usually sounds like "шоикъш".


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## cr00mz

I have a question about dialects, I found 2 pictures on Wikipedia, of the different pronounciations of the letters

ѓ and ќ

i can't post URLs so I cant show you the pictures, but those 2 pictures show that the above letters, depending on where in Macedonia you are, have different pronounciations.

Since this is Wikipedia i don't know for sure how correct it is, but does this mean that a word like "garbage" and "recall"(or maybe it's "remember", i'm not sure) in Skopje could be pronounced like 

ѓубре or ђубре

and

се сеќа or се сећа


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## iobyo

cr00mz said:
			
		

> depending on where in Macedonia you are, have different pronounciations.


 
The English concept of accent fits well in this situation, as speakers of the same dialect may realize them differently. Some dialects even have /ʃt/ or /ʃt͡ʃ/ for the etymological _*tj_ (as in OCS).




			
				cr00mz said:
			
		

> ѓубре or ђубре
> 
> and
> 
> се сеќа or се сећа


 
The northern dialects typically have some type of affricate. These words would be pronounced there much like they are in Serbian. 

The city Skopje is an exception. Most residents trace their ancestry to other parts of Macedonia, so the authentic dialect of Skopje is only spoken by the very elderly and those in the surrounding rural areas (which, from what I've read, is a little different still). So in Skopje you'll hear palatal plosives.

I don't know if a YouTube link will be allowed by the moderators, [It won't. Sorry. If there is ever any doubt, please contact us first.]


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## cr00mz

is is possible to switch every ѓ with ђ and ќ with ћ ? or are there words that are just not possible to do that with?


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## Bog Svarog

iobyo said:


> I don't know if a YouTube link will be allowed by the moderators, [...].


He said "rukite"...he's my hero! 


Also interesting: "mie" instead of "nie".


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## iobyo

Bog Svarog said:


> He said "rukite"...he's my hero!
> 
> 
> Also interesting: "mie" instead of "nie".



Also note the _л_-form for past tense verbs, accentuation (mostly standard antepenultimate but _игра́чи, прв__а́ци_), affricates such as in _ноќе_, and words like _у, тамо, он, они, делуе, фата, трава, тија, али, __почиња_,_ -н-_ suffix root for adjectives (_признаен_)_, _and the sometimes irregular use of the definite article.


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## Bog Svarog

iobyo said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> он, они,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _What's so special about on/oni?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> тија
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Same here...I wouldn't know how to say it otherwise?
> На тија нема што да речам. Just an accusative pronoun?
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> почиња
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> ,
> 
> 
> 
> I just looked at my dictionary, and it isn't in there, haha!
Click to expand...


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## iobyo

Bog Svarog said:
			
		

> Same here...I wouldn't know how to say it otherwise?



In the north it's a demonstrative pronoun (distinguished from the personal pronoun _они_). In some non-northern dialects it's both (where we'd use _тие_ in the standard).


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