# computer programmer



## dojibear

大家好

Using google translate (and my Wenlin PC dictionary) I find this for translation of "computer programmer": 计算机程序员

In the past I've used 电脑 for computer. I wonder if people also use 电脑程序员 for "computer programmer", and if there's a difference in usage between the two terms for computer: 计算机 and 电脑.

高理


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## SuperXW

Hi!
计算机 is the traditional and formal word for "computer", while 电脑 is more common for daily usage.
For "computer programmer", usually 程序员 is enough. Both 计算机程序员 and 电脑程序员 sound redundant.


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## hx1997

We normally just say 程序员 (as SuperXW said), as 程序 in this word refers specifically to computer programs.

In mainland, 计算机 is the technical term for computer, and 电脑 the colloquial one. So for example, the subject "Computer Science" is 计算机科学, never 电脑科学.

However, as far as I know, in Taiwan, 電腦 (电脑) can be used as a technical term, so you can see 電腦科學 (电脑科学).


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## brofeelgood

I think 「计算机」 means 'computer' only in Mainland China.

Elsewhere in Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and S.E.A., it's always been:
電腦: computer
計算機 (or 計算器): calculator


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## SimonTsai

In Taiwan, 計算機 could be either calculators or computers. But in everyday conversations, it usually refers to calculators.

計算器 is not wrong, but is something that I am unfamiliar with.

And rather than 程序員, I would say 程式工作者. (程式工作者 are not necessarily 程式設計師.)

EDIT:
Below is the case in Taiwan:

程式 ==> (computer) programme
程序 ==> process


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## philchinamusical

In my opinion, another formal title to address a Computer programmer is "软件工程师(Software Engineer)". My wife studied Software Engineering in unversity and when she joined a state-owned company after graduation, she's called "Assistant Software Engineer". Some of her colleagues were called "Network/Communication Engineer" as they are in charge of the Netowk (not the Internet) issues of the company.


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## humvee

In everyday speech, we tend to say “电脑” instead of "计算机"，the latter term sounds pedantic or academic.

Viewed from word formation, 电脑 literally means “electronic brain”， and “计算机“ means "calculating machine(or counting and calculating machine to be precise)".

By the way, we also use the loanword PC. It's used only when we talk to Mac users.


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## brofeelgood

philchinamusical said:


> formal title to address a Computer programmer is "软件工程师(Software Engineer)"


I've seen that title on name cards. It's definitely something people who write programs prefer to be known as, because it sounds heck of a lot more savvy than just 'programmer'. Personally, from the standpoint of an IT project manager, my team of programmers have always called themselves developers, and I'm equally happy to refer to them as such, e.g. 'The development pool is working on the double to resolve the issue.'.

(Software) Programmer: (程序) 編寫員
(Software) Developer: (程序/軟件) 開發者


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## humvee

That depends on context, in my circle, on a scale of high to low, software developer > software engineer > software programmer, the last one is sometimes akin to a coder(码农), which carries the negative meaning.


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## SimonTsai

碼農 sounds like a jargon, somewhat; I seldom hear it.

And I am having a hard time understanding what the negative connotation that it carries is. Could you tell me, @humvee, please? (For me, a coder is simply possibly not as professional as a programmer. And a programmer is a coder, literally.)

A developer is a programmer, whereas the reverse may not hold. Do you agree, @philchinamusical and @brofeelgood?

Finally, to stress the difference, I would translate the terms this way:

She is a coder: 她會寫程式。
She is a programmer: 她是程式工作者。
She is a developer: 她是位程式開發人員。

By the way, which level is a software engineer exactly at? (I am sorry for probably going off topic, but I am feeling curious.)


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> 碼農 sounds like a jargon, somewhat; I seldom hear it.


I think that's a Mainland slang word literally means 代码农民 ("coding farmer"), implying that although "coding" sounds like a highly-technical work, it is in fact as hard and petty as farming.


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## philchinamusical

@SimonTsai Not sure about if a programmer can be called a developer. But she/he is definitely a "Software Engineer". It was actually a fixed title in the state-owned system here in mainland. But my wife has long been away from that trade so no idea what they are calling it now.


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## brofeelgood

At the end of the day, whatever the job title is, they are still performing the whole or subset of the same tasks: evaluating functional requirements, creating technical specifications, coding and testing, documentation, post-implementation support etc. You might argue "Title A" is formally more senior than "Title B", but odds of this being valid is only likely to be at the company level and not industry wide. There really isn't a ubiquitous standard to sort and classify the lot. Designations like "Junior Developer" and "Senior Programmer' are all over the place, but would you pay closer attention to "junior vs senior" or "developer vs programmer"?


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## SimonTsai

Normally, I would not pay much attention to whether a person is a coder, a programmer, or a developer. But, if you are a developer and tell me that you are a developer, rather than a programmer, you do help me understand better what you do.


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## Broccolee

你好，高理：
    你的说法都正确并且非常自然。
    计算机程序员
    电脑程序员
    但是我相信更多人会倾向于选择“计算机程序员”。

Broccolee


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## samuel1004

Actually, 程序员 is seldom used in Mainland China. We use Software Engineer formally.


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## SuperXW

samuel1004 said:


> Actually, 程序员 is seldom used in Mainland China. We use Software Engineer formally.


What do you mean by "seldom used"? We got 18,300,000 results on Baidu.com. There's even a web jargon that mocking the word, "程序猿".


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## dojibear

SimonTsai said:


> Normally, I would not pay much attention to whether a person is a coder, a programmer, or a developer. But, if you are a developer and tell me that you are a developer, rather than a programmer, you do help me understand better what you do.



I don't know the difference (in English), and software was my career for 32 years. As far as I know "software engineer" is a fancy word, and "programmer" and "software developer" are other terms for the same thing.


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## SimonTsai

@SuperXW, 程序猿 is something really new to me and is chiefly used, methinks, to humour against oneself, or to tease or joke with coders or programmers. (The page in the link, for me, is hilarious.)

@dojibear, since information technology is not my forte, perhaps I am wrong to distinct the terms, and perhaps the differences are actually non-existent.


SimonTsai said:


> She is a coder: 她會寫程式。


This may not be perfectly accurate, but I fail to find a better one.


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> @SuperXW, 程序猿 is something really new to me and is chiefly used, methinks, to humour against oneself, or to tease or joke with coders or programmers. (The page in the link, for me, is hilarious.)


Exactly.


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## humvee

SuperXW said:


> Exactly.



You guys are right. Just finished a Silicon Valley episode and surprised to know the exact English equivalent "code monkey".


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