# We’ll destroy you as a man!



## seitt

Greetings

While in Greece many years ago, I was told that the junta made this hideous threat to Αλέξανδρος Παναγούλης.

This is how I remember the original Greek:
Θα σε καταστρέψουμε σαν άντρα.

Please, is the Greek correct?

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


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## Perseas

I understand the Greek phrase in two ways: 
a. they 'll destroy him as human existence or
b. they 'll destroy his masculinity.


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## Eltheza

@Perseas -

Would _ως_ be better than _σαν_?


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## Perseas

Hello Eltheza 

Hmmm, in some cases _σαν_ and _ως_ are interchangeable, and this is such a case, in my opinion. There have been discussions among philologists about this subject. 

In this example_ ως / σαν_ denotes somewhat emphatically that a person possesses a quality, here the masculine (or human) quality, and they would deprive him of this quality.


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## Eltheza

Thanks Perseas!

I have a book* by Ιωάννα Παπαζαφείρη - ΄Λάθη στη Χρήση της Γλώσσας μας' (Εκτη έκδωση - ΣΜΙΛH) and she discusses the ως/σαν issue at length!

(I believe she used to write articles about language usage for Καθημερινή.)

*In fact, I've got two copies of it!


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## Ancolie

Eltheza said:


> Thanks Perseas!
> 
> I have a book* by Ιωάννα Παπαζαφείρη - ΄Λάθη στη Χρήση της Γλώσσας μας' (Εκτη έκδωση - ΣΜΙΛH) and she discusses the ως/σαν issue at length!
> 
> (I believe she used to write articles about language usage for Καθημερινή.)
> 
> *In fact, I've got two copies of it!



Would you sell me one of the two, if you think it's useful ?


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## Eltheza

Bonjour and Καλημέρα, Ancolie!

Λοιπόν, the one copy has my annotations scribbled all over every page and the other copy, which is in pristine condition, was dedicated to me by a close Greek friend who is familiar with my linguistic obsessions!

It's interesting if you ever come across it. It was first published in the 1980s, I think. Ιωάννα Παπαζαφείρη was a passionate champion of Δημοτική as opposed to Καθαρεύουσα.

Χάρηκα πολύ!


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## Ancolie

Eltheza said:


> Bonjour and Καλημέρα, Ancolie!
> 
> Λοιπόν, the one copy has my annotations scribbled all over every page and the other copy, which is in pristine condition, was dedicated to me by a close Greek friend who is familiar with my linguistic obsessions!
> 
> It's interesting if you ever come across it. It was first published in the 1980s, I think. Ιωάννα Παπαζαφείρη was a passionate champion of Δημοτική as opposed to Καθαρεύουσα.
> 
> Χάρηκα πολύ!



Ευχαριστώ, Ελθεζα, τουλάχιστον έχω τώρα το όνομα το βιβλίου ! Το επόμενο ταξίδι μου στην Ελλάδα...


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## seitt

Many thanks - is there a way to threaten unambiguously to destroy his masculinity? That's how I understood it.


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## Perseas

Mostly this is the meaning (masculinity). Actually I didn't know the case and I assumed that by this phrase they threatened his personality in general.


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## seitt

Thanks - ah, how about Θα σou καταστρέψουμε την αντρειά./Θα καταστρέψουμε την αντρειά σou.? That would be a specific threat against his ability to function sexually as a man, wouldn't it?


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## Perseas

seitt said:


> [...]Θα σou καταστρέψουμε την αντρειά./Θα καταστρέψουμε την αντρειά σou.[...]?


τον ανδρισμό

Or perhaps «θα σε κάνουμε άχρηστο ως άντρα».


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## shawnee

I have an irrepressible urge to add an ς in all instances of the use of άντρα here. Please put me out of my misery.


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## bearded

Shawnee:  in my understanding, it is accusative case in all those instances. Therefore 'andra' is correct.

Perseas: if it meant 'as a human being', souldn't it be ''san/os anthropo(n)''?


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## Perseas

bearded man said:


> Perseas: if it meant 'as a human being', souldn't it be ''san/os anthropo(n)''?


Yes, the meaning would be crystal clear then. This interpreation crossed my mind just because I didn't know the case and had some doubts, as I wrote above in post #10.


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## shawnee

bearded man said:


> Shawnee:  in my understanding, it is accusative case in all those instances. Therefore 'andra' is correct.


Thank you bearded man. I thought it was correct, but I wondered if in usage it was not often misused with an s ending - often enough I guess, to render it passable.


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