# ciki



## Zsuzsu

Hi there,

I opened a thread in the English only forums in which I tried to find a translation for Hungarian "ciki". I provided several situations in which I would use "ciki" in Hungarian, like:

1. I was talking about English lessons with a secondary school student and she said that the group is very passive and they don't answer their teacher's questions very willingly. I wanted to ask her: why? Is it ??? to do so? Is this because you don't want to seem eager-beavers in the eyes of the others?

2. This is my original context but I can imagine others as well: for instance, it is ??? for a lot of children or teenagers to appear somewhere with their parents (to be escorted to see the doctor, for example, or to go to the cinema with them), because the others would think that they are not "cool" and are the little boys/girls of their mothers. 
3.Or if you are 16 and wear something that your grandmother would, it is also ???.
4. Or speaking about adults, it is ??? to call your girlfriend in (not sure of the preposition, sorry) your ex-girlfriend's name.
5. Or it is ??? to fall down at the opera in your beautiful dress.
6. Or it is ??? to tell your colleagues that your boss is an idiot while he is standing behind you...

What I learnt from the natives is that there is no such word in English that would fit in all these sentences (like "ciki"), but I got some ideas like embarassing, un-cool etc. Embarassing seems to be the solution for almost all of the natives, but it does not have the same register as "ciki".

Any ideas?

Here you can find our previous discussion:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1240985


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## Orreaga

Hi Zsuzsu,

I read the suggestions in the other forum and can't come up with anything different, but was wondering if this expression in Hungarian is similar to the newer use of the word _*gáz*_?


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## Zsuzsu

Hi Orreaga,

Yes, *gáz* is also similar. Another word would be _*égő*_.
Which of the words recommended in the other thread do you find the best?


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## Zsanna

Hello Zsuzsu,

I think the major problem is that there is no equivalent feeling (at least expressed) that accompanies some of those situations in an English context. 
We like to make it clear how something is "really felt" even in a negative context meanwhile in English you tend to hide those negative feelings and experiences.

This is why I'd think that _ciki_ and _égő_ can be even more difficult to translate than gáz - because this latter is more just a "descriptive" term, may have a bit less emotional content than the previous two.


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## Orreaga

Zsuzsu said:


> Which of the words recommended in the other thread do you find the best?



For your original example concerning the students in class, I would use "nerdy" which is apparently more specific to the situation than "ciki."

In example 2: uncool
3: dorky
4-6: embarrassing

These are just the first things that come to mind, there are several choices for each situation but I can't think of a single term that can be used for all.


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## Zsuzsu

Thanks Zsanna and Oerraga!


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## MSZ

A more recent English (North American?) usage, that I think is a bit more "slangy": *lame*
Used often as a comment on the situations you described:
*That's so lame!

*Edit:
(I now see that this suggestion had already been made - some time ago - on the English forum ....  so never mind ... sigh)


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## aty777

Hello, Zsuzsu!
Tough question! Shall keep my eyes and ears open!...


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## BezierCurve

> *That's so lame!*



This seems to work fine in this context.


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## Zsanna

I have some doubts about lame because *ciki *_is _slang and at least a 25-year-old one and also because even if it may provide a good translation in a given situation (I don't know it in that sense so cannot tell) it stays different from *ciki *in that it may mean several other things, too. *Ciki* is a particular word for a particular (= _uncomfortable_) situation. 

A question to those who know *lame* used in this sense: doesn't it indicate somehow that a situation does not seem right to the speaker? In the sense going towards the meaning of _suspicious _or_ not as it should be_?


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## MSZ

Correct in that *lame* has at least one other meaning, and its use in these situations is probably derived from, or related to, that meaning. I'm not sure that the fact that *ciki*  has no other meanings is relevant to whether the translation is close enough: *lame*, used in this sense, _is _slang - in so far as one would not use it while speaking/writing in a serious ('adult' ) register.

As for the question: *lame* does not, to me, have any connotation of _suspicious_. It tends more toward (socially) _awkward_, and, yes, in that sense, _not as it should be_, in that the person described does not understand the conventions, or the action described does not conform to them (e.g. teenagers should never be accompanied by parents when going to the movies, etc.). 

But, picking up on your use of "uncomfortable": *lame*, as far as I can tell, does not directly connote discomfort on the part of the participant in a situation - I see it more as an expression of perception: "What they did was so lame": speaker's judgement on a situation, or: "I wouldn't do that; it's really lame": potential participant's anticipation of an assessment of the situation.

If *ciki* does involve a participant's point of view, then indeed, there is something missing in *lame*.

Two other observations:  
- in the situation mentioned above (parents going with teens to a movie), *lame* may be  used to describe either party's actions (parents for not understading the conventions, children for letting parents behave like that) as well as the situation itself - in which case there seems to be a connotation of sympathy for the kids
- *lame*, in this sense, is used primarily with an intensifier: "*so lame*", "*really lame*", etc. You are less likely to hear a simple: "That's lame."


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## Zsanna

Thank you MSZ for all the explanation above!  
I agree that _suspicious_ is no good there. (I'm sorry to have brought it up, it must have been a momentary impression.)

Just a few comments for the rest:



MSZ said:


> ...I'm not sure that the fact that *ciki* has no other meanings is relevant to whether the translation is close enough....


I'm afraid it is ... or rather it is that _lame_ has other meanings. (Together with the other aspects I mentioned above.) Although, admittedly, it may be just a "nuance" (e.g.) translators need to keep an eye on. (Like the difference between giving a translation or an equivalent for a word.)
Here's another example:
if _prestige_ were given as a translation (or - even worse - as an equivalent) for _bűvésztrükk_, it'd be right but it would still be wiser to look for another term (like e.g. _conjuring trick_) at least as a first approach because it may lead to misunderstanding (as a first equivalent): it may make you think of the respect or admiration somebody or something gets for having a good reputation about something. (In Hungarian: _presztizs._)
Meanwhile with _conjuring trick_ there is no place for misunderstanding.




MSZ said:


> ...But, picking up on your use of "uncomfortable": *lame*, as far as I can tell, does not directly connote discomfort on the part of the participant in a situation (...)
> If *ciki* does involve a participant's point of view, then indeed, there is something missing in *lame*..


This is exactly the point in *ciki* - the expression of the feeling of the speaker, at least in my opinion.
It is not a description of a situation that the speaker doesn't find right. True, there is always something "wrong" to start with (the situation may be dangerous, risky, difficult, etc.) but the point is the emotional "plus" it implies for the speaker and that he wishes to put through to you.
If you trip over and fall flat on your face, it is *unfortunate* but it is also *ciki *only if you do it in front your boss or a friend you'd like to impress with other qualities than clumsiness. 
On this basis, it may turn out that _clumsy_, _awkward_ were probably the closest adjectives one could find. (However, they lack the "modernish" and "slangish" aspect of *ciki*...)


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## hayamburuk

I think the equivalent of "lame" would be "béna"

for example: 

Q: "hogy ment a focimeccs?"
A: "Hű, nagyon ciki volt, eleggé bénán játszottak"


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## Zsanna

I agree. 
I can certainly support that "béna" would refer to the way of playing (all in all: badly) meanwhile "ciki" expresses the speaker's (or that of the group he belongs to) feelings in connection with it.
But, hayamburuk, that still doesn't solve the original question!  Do you have an idea how it could be in English in your example for instance?


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## hayamburuk

Well - embarrassing seems to be the most appropriate word, I would avoid using "slang" as in English it dates much quicker than in Hungarian, and there's nothing worse than trying to appear cool, unless it's something you hear every single day from all strata of society, over several years. 

And I have to say, sometimes there are words in Hungarian that just don't have an exact equivalent in English. I know exactly what Ciki means, but I just can't think of anything in English, and I'm pretty much bilingual with a degree in Hungarian!

I repeat: stick with Embarrassing and you won't go wrong, in the UK or the US. Anything else and not only do you risk looking like an "eager beaver", but as soon as your back is turned people will snigger and laugh about you, and you don't want that!

Imagine a foreigner in Budapest saying "ja, bazzeg, de ciki vót haver, gyé má"


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## Zsanna

Hayam..., _*ciki* _is not as much of a slang at all! 
What is the "gyé má"? (Mellesleg, it is more  "vazzeg" nowadays - and that is really on the vulgar side.)


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## hayamburuk

Haha, I know "ciki" is not really slang, but my elderly relatives would never use it. Kínos...

"Gyé má" is the way I hear "gyere már" as spoken by certain people. Like "Ződ" and "vót"


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## Zsanna

Not by many!  
*Ződ* and _*vót*_ are not slang... I don't really know what to call it but certainly closer to colloquial Hungarian than to anything else. 
_Gyere már_ in colloquial spoken Hungarian (again) would be more like _*gyere má'*_ or *gyere mán*. (As far as I can tell...)

P.S. Ciki is "not much of a slang" word to be ashamed of using in public. If elder people don't use it it's just because it is not a word their generation used "in their time". (Like my generation wouldn't use words like "jampec" anymore. It is dated "for us".)


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