# I ain't idea [=have no idea?]



## Konstantinos

Instead of "I have no idea", can I say "I ain't idea"? I know that ain't can mean "haven't" but can it mean "have no"?

Thanks in advance.


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## suzi br

Absolutely not. 

Your options are: 
I ain’t got any idea
Or even 
I ain’t got no idea.


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## dojibear

Konstantinos said:


> Instead of "I have no idea", can I say "I ain't idea"? I know that ain't can mean "haven't" but can it mean "have no"?



"Ain't" is a nonstandard contraction for "are not, is not, has not, do not, does not, did not,* have not*".

But "have" is used two different ways:
- as a helper verb before another verb (I have not been eating)
- as a normal verb meaning "own, possess" (I have an idea. I have no idea.)

"Ain't" is only a contraction of the helper verb "have not". "Ain't" is never a contraction of the normal verb "have".


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## Konstantinos

Thanks both. And if I want to use "ain't" for any negative expression, how to do so? For example, if I am in a restaurant and I don't wanna eat meat, can I say: I ain't got to eat meat.?


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## heypresto

Konstantinos said:


> For example, if I am in a restaurant and I don't wanna *want to* eat meat, can I say: I ain't got to eat meat.?



No. Say 'I don't want to eat any meat', or, if you are a vegetarian, and never eat meat, say 'I don't eat meat.'


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## Konstantinos

Yes, but something more folk - slang?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Konstantinos said:


> Yes, but something more folk - slang?



"No meat for me (,thanks)!"


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## suzi br

Konstantinos said:


> Yes, but something more folk - slang?



It's not really a context for slang expression, so you'll struggle to find anything that really fits any better than just politely saying "I don't eat meat".  



Konstantinos said:


> ... can I say: I ain't got to eat meat.?


No. It does not mean you are a vegetarian, choosing not to eat meat. This means you do not have any obligation to eat meat,  I suppose you could use this phrase if you have been advised not to eat meat, by a dietician or doctor.


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## Barque

Konstantinos said:


> And if I want to use "ain't" for any negative expression, how to do so?





Konstantinos said:


> and I don't wanna eat meat,


I'd suggest that words like "ain't" and "wanna" are used (if they have to be used at all) by learners only after they are comfortable enough with the language to know how to use them without having to ask. If not, they're likely to sound very odd.


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## Konstantinos

About wanna (instead of want to), I think it can be used very early, maybe in the first day of learning English. It is not so complicated like ain't. But even ain't, it can be used the first month of learning English.


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## sdgraham

Konstantinos said:


> About wanna (instead of want to), I think it can be used very early, maybe in the first day of learning English. It is not so complicated like ain't. But even ain't, it can be used the first month of learning English.


We have an aphorism, "It's your funeral."


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## Konstantinos

I had a problem with my speech because I pronounced "of" very strongly. OFFFFFF. A native speaker suggested me, just to say a, for example to pronounce kind of, as kinda, not kind OFFFFF. Someone should have told me it in my first English speaking day.


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## much_rice

dojibear said:


> "Ain't" is a nonstandard contraction for "are not, is not, has not, do not, does not, did not,* have not*".



And perhaps *am not*? There's an old Civil War cartoon* lampooning draft dodgers who could legally hire a substitute to take their place. In the first panel, we see a poor man saying "I'M DRAFTED," and in the second a rich one saying, "I AIN'T." Granted, words change meaning over time and so perhaps it's not used that way anymore.

Sojourner Truth's famous "Ain't I a woman?" is presumably "aren't I," rather than "am I not."


*Can't find the image via Google, but it shows up in an episode of Ken Burns' _The Civil War_


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## Konstantinos

And I can find 10 movies in which they use ain't as don't or doesn't. For example:

A: That doesn't sound anything like me.
B: It ain't.


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## much_rice

Konstantinos said:


> A: That doesn't sound anything like me.
> B: It ain't.



Hmm. Without the context, I would interpret this as "It ain't [isn't] you." Either it's not a real quote from speaker A, or it doesn't reflect A's real personality.


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## Konstantinos

Yes much_rice, this I mean. I mean, maybe, in any negative case you can use ain't? For example:

A: Do you swim in beach?
B: No, it ain't.

B means: No, it is not happening me to swim in beach. 

Or

No, it isn't anything like me to swim in beach.


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## much_rice

Konstantinos said:


> A: Do you swim in beach?
> B: No, it ain't.
> 
> B means: No, it is not happening me to swim in beach.



None of this is good English, sorry to say  .

Here's one that uses ain't for *did not*:
A. Did it occur to you to swim while at the beach?
B. It ain't occurred to me because I was too drunk.

Some dialects (especially African-American Vernacular English, or Black English) will use *ain't* for many negatives and *don't* for "doesn't" but this is probably because that dialect doesn't inflect verbs nearly as much as General American.
A. Do your old car still run? (=Does your old car still run?)
B. It don't. (=It doesn't.)


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## dojibear

Konstantinos said:


> Thanks both. And if I want to use "ain't" for any negative expression, how to do so? For example, if I am in a restaurant and I don't wanna eat meat, can I say: I ain't got to eat meat.?



*Ain't* is *only *a contraction for the words I listed, so you can only use it in a sentence where those words would be used:



dojibear said:


> "Ain't" is a nonstandard contraction for "are not, is not, has not, do not, does not, did not,* have not*".


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## Konstantinos

do not, does not and did not? All native speakers agree?


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## london calling

sdgraham said:


> We have an aphorism, "It's your funeral."


. I don't use either expression (ain't - wanna) when I speak and would advise anybody learning English to avoid them like the plague.



Konstantinos said:


> do not, does not and did not? All native speakers agree?



No. See DB's post:



dojibear said:


> "Ain't" is a nonstandard contraction for "are not, is not, has not, do not, does not, did not,* have not*".


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

"Ain't no" (non-standard) can also be used for "There isn't any", as in "Ain't no way I'm gonna  eat that thing." and "There aren't any," as in "Ain't no fiies on ol' Festus."

EDITED for clarification.


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## Konstantinos

I felt it... There is no chance to get in the peak of mountain under these circumstances: Ain't no chance to get in the peak of mountain under these circumstances. ????


But don't, doesn't and didn't still confuse me. Some native speakers say that ain't can be used in those cases, but some others say no.


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## PaulQ

Konstantinos said:


> For example, if I am in a restaurant and I don't want to eat meat, can I say: I ain't going to to eat meat.?


No, that would mean "I refuse to eat meat."


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## much_rice

dojibear said:


> *Ain't* is *only *a contraction for the words I listed, so you can only use it in a sentence where those words would be used:



But see #13 

I'm fighting for the inclusion of *am not *on your list.

Examples:
A. You're a doofus.
B. No I ain't!

A. Are you going to George's party?
B. No, I ain't going.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

much_rice said:


> But see #13
> 
> I'm fighting for the inclusion of *am not *on your list.
> 
> Examples:
> A. You're a doofus.
> B. No I ain't!
> 
> A. Are you going to George's party?
> B. No, I ain't going.



I'm sure doji's not including  "am not" was ony an oversight.


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## Keith Bradford

Konstantinos said:


> About wanna (instead of want to), I think it can be used very early, maybe in the first day of learning English. It is not so complicated like ain't. But even ain't, it can be used the first month of learning English.


You may think this, but you're wrong.  You should *never ever* use expressions like _ain't, gotta, wanna, gonna_ unless you're prepared to run the risk of giving native speakers the idea that you're ignorant.


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## velisarius

To get back to the original question, "I have no idea" is standard "educated" English. More casually, "I've no idea". I doubt it can be expressed at all using "ain't" without sounding very odd indeed. "I ain't got no idea" - theoretically possible, but I doubt anybody would actually say this.

If you want to sound more like your average schmuck on the street, you would do better to choose  "Dunno", accompanied by a shrug.


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## dojibear

much_rice said:


> I'm fighting for the inclusion of *am not *on your list.



It's not my list - it is the WordReference dictionary's definition of *ain't*.

But you are correct -- the unabridged dictionary list includes *am not* and  *have not*. I just copied the first list. My mistake!


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## Packard

The question is moot for me.  

I think it is pretty much standard vernacular to say, "I've no idea."  (I have no idea.)  

Or 

"I've got no idea."  

"Ain't" does not show up for this party (in my opinion).


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## dojibear

I agree with #30. Someone who speaks poorly may drop the 'v' sound and say "I got no idea".


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## Packard

dojibear said:


> I agree with #30. Someone who speaks poorly may drop the 'v' sound and say "I got no idea".



I would agree with that for spoken conversation.  In writing I would add the contraction.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

So natives (including myself) are unanimous: "I ain't idea." is not English; "No idea." is perfectly acceptable. ("I have no idea." is probably more common than "I've no idea." in AE, In My Opinion.)


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## Forero

dojibear said:


> It's not my list - it is the WordReference dictionary's definition of *ain't*.
> 
> But you are correct -- the unabridged dictionary list includes *am not* and  *have not*. I just copied the first list. My mistake!


We also need to add *has not* and to specify that it does not work for the infinitive (e.g. "I would have not done it at all", "I would ain't done it at all.).


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## Packard

My seventh grade English teacher had little patience and a short temper. We all took delight in making him explode, at which time he would invariably yell out, “I ain’t got none time to quibble now!”

While it was always clear what he wanted, the sentence never made much sense to us.

So I posit that the only rule that applies to “ain’t” is that there is no rule that applies.


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## elroy

suzi br said:


> [I ain't got to eat meat] means you do not have any obligation to eat meat, I suppose you could use this phrase if you have been advised not to eat meat, by a dietician or doctor.


 I agree with the first part, but not the second.  If I've been advised not to eat meat, I would say "I'm not supposed to eat meat" or even "I can't eat meat" -- but not "I don't have to eat meat" (which is the only thing "I ain't got to eat meat" can mean).  "I have no obligation to" ≠ "I have an obligation not to" 





much_rice said:


> It ain't occurred to me because I was too drunk.


 Are you sure this is possible?  "Ain't" + past tense doesn't sound right to me (and I don't mean this in a prescriptive way).


Keith Bradford said:


> You should *never ever* use expressions like _ain't, gotta, wanna, gonna_ unless you're prepared to run the risk of giving native speakers the idea that you're ignorant.


 "Ain't" is not common among educated native speakers, and it's likely to sound cringey coming from a non-native speaker, but the other three are very commonly used by educated native speakers (in American English) and would sound completely normal coming from a fluent non-native speaker.


Packard said:


> So I posit that the only rule that applies to “ain’t” is that there is no rule that applies.


 I disagree.  It is clearly rule-governed, as manifestly evidenced by this very thread, in which native speakers have unanimously rejected "I ain't idea" as impossible.


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## Packard

elroy said:


> I disagree.  It is clearly rule-governed, as manifestly evidenced by this very thread, in which native speakers have unanimously rejected "I ain't idea" as impossible.



I think the same group would say that, “I ain’t got none time to quibble” was impossible too.  And yet I heard it said dozens of time from the mouth of that same school teacher.

_You got an idea on this? ‘Cause I ain’t.  Can’t not even think of no idea on this.

I ain’t an idea either.  Mebbe Hank got an idea.  You got an idea on this Hank?

Nope.  I ain’t an idea on this neither._


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## elroy

Packard said:


> _I ain’t an idea either. Mebbe Hank got an idea. You got an idea on this Hank?
> 
> Nope. I ain’t an idea on this neither._


 Are you saying you think "I ain't an idea" (meaning "I have no idea") is possible?


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## velisarius

elroy said:


> "Ain't" is not common among educated native speakers, and it's likely to sound cringey coming from a non-native speaker, but the other three are very commonly used by educated native speakers (in American English) and would sound completely normal coming from a fluent non-native speaker.



The other three (_gotta, wanna, gonna_) are simply the written representations of a pronunciation that just about everyone uses. The spelling is meant to indicate a casual>sloppy way of speaking.

"Ain't" is different, as it can _sound_ uneducated, and often does. In BE it's on a level with dropping one's aitches, and is a strong class marker.  It isn't a very good idea to use it unless you're around others who habitually and naturally use it, and even then they might think you are taking the piss.

I use it occasionally in set phrases or for humorous effect.


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## london calling

velisarius said:


> "Ain't" is different, as it can _sound_ uneducated, and often does. In BE it's on a level with dropping one's aitches, and is a strong class marker.  It isn't a very good idea to use it unless you're around others who habitually and naturally use it, and even then they might think you are taking the piss.
> 
> I use it occasionally in set phrases or for humorous effect.


Agreed. Definitely a no-no in BE. I only ever use 'ain't' when imitating Cockney specch (my hometown dialect) or in set phrases, as you say.


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## DonnyB

Going back to the original question, which was:


Konstantinos said:


> Instead of "I have no idea", can I say "I ain't idea"? I know that ain't can mean "haven't" but can it mean "have no"?


I think the answer to that is a definite no.

You can't say "I ain't idea" any more than you can say "I haven't idea" because the "-t" is a contraction of "not" after which you need a determiner of some sort with the singular noun following it.

You can (if you want ) say "I ain't got a clue" but that's a different construction grammatically because it uses "ain't" as an auxiliary verb.


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## PaulQ

much_rice said:


> B. It ain't occurred to me because I was too drunk.





elroy said:


> Are you sure this is possible? "Ain't" + past tense doesn't sound right to me (and I don't mean this in a prescriptive way).


The problem seems to be "B. It ain't occurred to me because I was *am* too drunk."

Cf: "What're you arresting me for? I ain't done anything." sounds OK.


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## Forero

PaulQ said:


> The problem seems to be "B. It ain't occurred to me because I was *am* too drunk."
> 
> Cf: "What're you arresting me for? I ain't done anything." sounds OK.


I think the question was whether "(h)ain't" can ever mean "hadn't".

I think it's possible, but unusual.


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## morior_invictus

DonnyB said:


> You can (if you want ) say "I ain't got a clue" but that's a different construction grammatically because it uses "ain't" as an auxiliary verb.


One might even hear: I ain't got *no* clue.


> *ain’t* v1
> Usu |e(ɪ)nt|, occas |ɛnt, int|
> Also sp ain’, aint, a’n’t, an’t, ant, een’t, ent
> [Contr of am not, are not (OED 1778   → “dial.”); used also for is not, have not, has not, and among Blacks also for do not, does not]
> 1 Am not, are not, is not.
> 2 Has not, have not.
> 3 Do not, does not, did not. *among Black speakers*
> 5 following a modal aux: Not be. *among Black speakers* See also ain’t must
> 6 in phr ain’t no (or nothing): There is not any(thing).


Source: Dictionary of American Regional English


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## london calling

morior_invictus said:


> One might even hear: I ain't got *no* clue.
> 
> Source: Dictionary of American Regional English


You'll hear (for example) "I ain't got no money" in London as well.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

For instance: song title "I Ain't Got Nobody".


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## velisarius

I would expect to hear "I ain't got no/any money" and "I ain't got a clue".


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## Packard

elroy said:


> Are you saying you think "I ain't an idea" (meaning "I have no idea") is possible?



I am saying that once you delve into substandard English anything is possible.  

The problem with the word as being used here is that it is sub-standard English in an entire discussion in standard English.  It is like a lone eidelweiss flower found on an otherwise barren mountainside.  It seems so out of place that it strikes a discordant note.  

The inverse would sound just as discordant. 



_You got an idea on this? ‘Cause I ain’t. Can’t not even think of no idea on this.

I ain’t an idea either. Mebbe Hank got an idea. You got an idea on this Hank?

Nope. I ain’t an idea on this neither._
_
Mebbe Willie-boy got an idea on this.  Hey Willie-boy, you got an idea on this?

He ain't an idea.  He dunno no idea on this stuff or stuff like this stuff.

Well, to tell the truth, this is really outside my realm of expertise.  I would decline a venture a guess on what this all means.

See!  I tole you he ain't an idea on this!_


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## heypresto

All of which reminds me of Ian Dury's classic song Clever Trevor - which starts with:

_Just cos I ain't never 'ad, no, nothing worth having
never ever, never ever
you ain't got no call not to think I wouldn't fall
into thinking that I ain't too clever_


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## elroy

Packard said:


> I am saying that once you delve into substandard English anything is possible.


 I'm sorry, but this is completely false and has no basis in linguistic fact.

Again, this very thread demonstrates that not everything goes when it comes to "ain't."


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## Packard

elroy said:


> I'm sorry, but this is completely false and has no basis in linguistic fact.
> 
> Again, this very thread demonstrates that not everything goes when it comes to "ain't."



Equally sorry, but this forum is not peopled by those that use substandard English.  I don't think we are in a position to make these judgments.  

I've had a long time passion of listening to dialog.  And even among people who write well, and speak well, unless they are experienced public speakers, the English is not up to high school levels.   

Normal conversation is filled with incomplete sentences, repeated phrases, wrong words, etc.  These are errors we would not make in writing.  It is why I find much of the dialog in movies and TV laughable.  

Among the under educated, these errors would be far greater, to the extent that comprehension is jeopardized.  So we clean things up in writing and script writing and hope to convey the essence of spoken language.  

But few rules govern spoken language and none govern substandard spoken language.


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## elroy

Packard said:


> none govern substandard spoken language.


 You continue to make this inaccurate and unfounded claim without backing it up.  In descriptive linguistics, which any modern linguist worth his salt subscribes to, all language varieties — whether standard or not — are equally legitimate and equally rule-governed.  You may be trying to say that in non-standard varieties, there are no rule books stating how people “should” speak, so the natural development of the language is not restricted by prescriptive rules — if so, I agree.  This, however, does not mean that there are no inherent — but as yet not codified — rules already governing non-standard speech.  In fact, there are.  You may not be aware of them, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

We do not need to have “ain’t” as a regular part of our dialects/idiolects to be able to judge whether the title sentence is valid or not.  All native speakers, with the exception of yourself, have agreed that it is not.  Your claim is not based on actual linguistic evidence, but on your inaccurate view that there are no rules so it must be okay.  If you have actual evidence showing that this is a valid construction, please show it.


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## Packard

So if the rules vary from location to location and there are thousands of locations, then how are these "rules" of any use in describing the language?  Can you say with any degree of credibility that there does not exist a place on earth where this collocation is not the norm or at least accepted usage?


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## irinet

_Hi,

You ain't / haven't seen anything yet_ sounds very different to me, much stronger, I don't know why.

I've read your lines and a bit more because I really like this tiny contraction, which I found in literature first, when reading _Huck Finn _or_ Tom Sawyer. _At that time, I didn't know that it's substandard, but I kind have guessed.

Though nonstandard, it looks that this very old contraction carries more than  a label that _ain't was tagged with._ It wanted more (am not, do not, have not), but got nothing. It's still rejected by standards after more than 2 centuries.

As a non-native speaker, if I may share my opinion here with you, I really find it _cute,_ though I do not use it because I know it's incorrect.

Now I've read that even educated people use it in set phrases or for adding humour and spice to their conversation sometimes.

I wonder to this context which are those set phrases?


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## velisarius

Hi Irinet,

Some of the set phrases come from well-known and well-loved song lyrics. I hope we _Ain't Misbehavin'_ by drifting somewhat from the main thread topic - now _Ain't That a Shame_?

I suggest you check out the Wikipedia article on "Ain't" for more information.


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## irinet

Thank you, Velisarius!

Now I know why I like it: it's because of the _assonance_.


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