# Urdu: sarkaari karamchaaree



## mominh9900

What does this word mean?
سرکاری کرمچاری


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## marrish

_*sarkaarii*_ means 'of or related to a government',
and _*karam-ćārī*_, s.m. An inferior officer to collect the revenue from a certain division of a village, a village accountant (Platts).


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## mominh9900

I was guessing "civil servant" but it seems I was wrong. So what do you call a civil servant then?


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## marrish

سرکاری ملازم sarkaarii mulaazim


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## Jashn

In Hindi, 'sarkaari karamchaari'/सरकारी कर्मचारी would be used to refer to a civil servant.

Platts is a good dictionary, though dated. I would assume the meaning has changed since the time Platts was published. I have confirmed the meaning of 'karamchaarii' in the Oxford Hindi-English dictionary, so the meaning I'm giving is assured. It does seem less common than sarkari naukar or sarkari mulaazim, though perhaps it's preferred by those who wish to use a 'shuddh' hindi.


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## mundiya

^ There's nothing 'shuddh' about the word "kar(a)mchaarii". It's the most common word I can think of in Hindi for an employee/worker.

Question for the OP: Can you specify where you heard the phrase?


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## mominh9900

mundiya said:


> ^ There's nothing 'shuddh' about the word "kar(a)mchaarii". It's the most common word I can think of in Hindi for an employee/worker.
> 
> Question for the OP: Can you specify where you heard the phrase?



Hindi news broadcast.


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## mominh9900

I know that sarkaari means "government-related". What does کرمچاری karamchaaree mean by itself?


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## mundiya

mominh9900 said:


> I know that sarkaari means "government-related". What does کرمچاری karamchaaree mean by itself?



Employee, worker, or staff.


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## mominh9900

mundiya said:


> Employee, worker, or staff.



Isn't mulaazim used for empoyee, worker, etc. in Hindi? I mean, aren't they both used: karamchaari and mulaazim?


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## Sheikh_14

Isn't the correct term so far as Urdu is concerned mulaazam not mulaazim for that would be an employer? Not that many people take note of this distinction but I would assume that is the case here as is in several other cases like mulzim/am whereby mulzim is actually the accuser and mulzam the accused.


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## marrish

Sheikh_14 said:


> Isn't the correct term so far as Urdu is concerned mulaazam not mulaazim for that would be an employer? Not that many people take note of this distinction but I would assume that is the case here as is in several other cases like mulzim/am whereby mulzim is actually the accuser and mulzam the accused.


mulaazim is correct, because it means literally the one who serves - servant (act. part.). mulzam is indeed the accused but Arabic _mulzim_ hasn't been used in Urdu although I can't back it with a proof for now. The fact that the majority of mother-tongue and other Urdu speaking population says _mulzim_ is just a phonetic change and is not related to the Arabic word, of course given _mulzim_ hasn't been used. In this way it is Ghalatu_l-3aam and if there happens to emerge a couter-evidence to my thesis, i.e. the word mulzim has ever been used in Urdu in its Arabic sense of the active participle, then at worst it's a Ghalatu_l-3awaam but I think it might be more likely Ghalat_u-l3aam faSiiH .


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## marrish

mundiya said:


> ^ There's nothing 'shuddh' about the word "kar(a)mchaarii". It's the most common word I can think of in Hindi for an employee/worker.


I second what you said, and neither it was in the first half of the 20th century. Well it's normal that words take on new meanings according to the needs of the population if there are changes in the spheres of life where a given word belongs to. You can certainly say sarkaarii karamchaarii to mean a civil servant. I can think of others, might be wrong, ko'ii chhoTaa moTaa karamchaarii, baRaa karamchaarii etc. can mean an activist, a volunteer, propagandist, an operative, a temple servant (?), a party member etc etc. traditionally ending on sweepers, peons, cleaners and other vital service-providers.

As I'm concerned, the कर्म spelling only can be considered to have been made mainstream spelling in Modern Standard Hindi. Pronunciations might vary, isn't it?


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## littlepond

mominh9900 said:


> Isn't mulaazim used for empoyee, worker, etc. in Hindi?



It is, but far less common in Hindi than "kar(a)mchaarii".


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## mominh9900

I believe that it should be कर्मचारी (rather than करमचारी), since there is no such thing as करम in Hindi.
कर्म , on the other hand, is a purely Hindi word meaning "work", synonymous with काम .


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## Jashn

mundiya said:


> ^ There's nothing 'shuddh' about the word "kar(a)mchaarii". It's the most common word I can think of in Hindi for an employee/worker.



I meant only that someone who cares about trying to be 'shuddh' would probably prefer karamchari to mulazim.


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## mundiya

marrish said:


> As I'm concerned, the कर्म spelling only can be considered to have been made mainstream spelling in Modern Standard Hindi. Pronunciations might vary, isn't it?



Both कर्म and करम (and other similar pairs) are used in old poetry, e.g. Surdas. Modern pronunciation also varies depending on the speaker; hence, I wrote "kar(a)mchaarii".


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## mundiya

mominh9900 said:


> I believe that it should be कर्मचारी (rather than करमचारी), since there is no such thing as करम in Hindi.
> कर्म , on the other hand, is a purely Hindi word meaning "work", synonymous with काम .



कर्मचारी  is the more typical spelling, but both कर्म and करम exist in Hindi.

कर्म has a multitude of meanings, including philosophical ones, and is not completely synonymous with काम.


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## mundiya

Jashn said:


> I meant only that someone who cares about trying to be 'shuddh' would probably prefer karamchari to mulazim.



As stated above, "mulaazim" is not a commonly used word in Hindi. The word a Hindi speaker would naturally use is "kar(a)mchaarii". A person interested in a 'pure' form of language wouldn't use the word "sarkaarii" either, so purity is a moot point given that the phrase being discussed is "sarkaarii kar(a)mchaarii".


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## mominh9900

mundiya said:


> As stated above, "mulaazim" is not a commonly used word in Hindi. The word a Hindi speaker would naturally use is "kar(a)mchaarii". A person interested in a 'pure' form of language wouldn't use the word "sarkaarii" either, so purity is a moot point given that the phrase being discussed is "sarkaarii kar(a)mchaarii".



Why? What is the "shuddh" equivalent for "sarkaari"?


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## littlepond

mominh9900 said:


> I believe that it should be कर्मचारी (rather than करमचारी), since there is no such thing as करम in Hindi.



"karam" is an often-used pronunciation for "karm" in Hindi, especially in words with additional baggage, such as "kar(a)mchaarii".


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## littlepond

mundiya said:


> As stated above, "mulaazim" is not a commonly used word in Hindi. The word a Hindi speaker would naturally use is "kar(a)mchaarii".



Completely agree.


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## mundiya

mominh9900 said:


> Why? What is the "shuddh" equivalent for "sarkaari"?



I don't subscribe to labeling words 'shuddh'. Synonyms of sarkaar/sarkaarii have been discussed elsewhere on the forum.


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