# Cases



## ><FISH'>

I have been learning Polish for a few months now, and no matter how much I read about them, I just can't understand the various cases in Polish. As a native Anglophone, I can barely grasp the gender usages, let alone the seven different word cases. Does anyone have any simplistic resources/tips/explanations about this?

Some background information: I have very basic knowledge of Polish, small vocabulary, no concept of grammar (I usually just guess and hope it's comprehensible). I've been learning for quite a while now, but the lack of resources and guidance is somewhat obstructive.

Note: I have checked the resources and tips thread here already.


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## winnux8

Hello.
Try this: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/Noun_cases

I hope it will help


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## NotNow

It may help to first memorize phrases and short sentences.  The grammar, including gender, declension, and conjugation, can come later.  If you know phrases and simple sentence, grammar will not be so abstract.  You will be able to associate it with what you already know.  This is how children learn language.


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## ><FISH'>

winnux8 said:


> Hello.
> Try this: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/Noun_cases
> 
> I hope it will help


Thanks. I have searched Wikipedia for such pages before, but it always redirected me to the cases for general languages. I had no idea such a page was hidden somewhere.



NotNow said:


> It may help to first memorize phrases and short sentences. The grammar, including gender, declension, and conjugation, can come later. If you know phrases and simple sentence, grammar will not be so abstract. You will be able to associate it with what you already know. This is how children learn language.


Hm, I do already know dozens of phrases and sentences, and hundreds of words (the problem being that I can't string a coherent sentence with all these words I know), but it may help to learn more.


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## winnux8

Here you can find more about learning Polish: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish


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## Thomas1

><FISH'> said:


> [...]Hm, I do already know dozens of phrases and sentences, and hundreds of words (the problem being that I can't string a coherent sentence with all these words I know), but it may help to learn more.


I can't tell about Polish, but learning other languages, I may offer what I do:
--buy yourself a good dictionary, which gives the government. There is one, for Polish native speakers, I'm posting here a sample entry (the first definition) for a randomly chosen verb:robić ndk VIa, robię, rób 1. wykonywać, wytwarzać   ktoś robi coś   (z czegoś)   (dla kogoś a. komuś)   (czymś a. na czymś): Babcia robiła nam a. dla nas konfitury z wiśni. Robiła sweterki na drutach i serwetki szydełkiem (nie: na szydełku).
Nowy słownik poprawnej polszczyzny PWN © Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN SA​--first, learn some general guidelines and apply them each time you're sure they come into quesion, otherwise, consult the dictionary/your teacher/WR forum  ;--  to do so you may buy yourself a grammar manual with the theoretical part and exercises (best with answers);
​--if possible first practise using cases orally, then do some exercises in written form and have someone check and correct them;-- sometimes you will have to do some exercises several times, in intervals, in order to grasp the feel of the nuances;
-- analyse the corrections;​--after you get more familiar with the usage of cases, you may try writing longer pieces of text, this is a challange because you have to apply all the rules you have learnt so far and because all parts of speech come into play, but after a while you'll become more fluent; 
-- and of course, as the Polish saying goes: praktyka czyni mistrza; --use Polish as often as possible, there will be mistakes at the beginning, this is no reason to worry, soon you will see there will be fewer and fewer of them.​


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## Sensuous linguist

Basic Polish - a grammar workbook is a good resource for learning the cases.  Routledge publishes it in the UK.  Diana Bielec is the author.  This book takes the reader step by step through the cases by exercises.  The text uses a base of words and shows their declensions one after another.  Then, the book includes more words for practice. Pozdrawiam.


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## Szkot

I recommend 'Polish verbs and essentials of grammar' by Oscar Swan - a snip at £7.99!  Generally I find it well-written with an understanding of the problems of the English-speaking learner.  (Sorry this sounds like an ad, but I genuinely like the book)

It has 6 pages on the use of the cases, one-by-one, then 2 pages on 'The main kinds of noun phrases and the cases they usually take', with lots of examples.


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## cpuzey1

It can be tricky and very daunting if you don't have any knowledge of any other inflected languages, such as German, Russian, other Slavonic languages, etc. The book that Szkot mentions above by Oscar Swan is gold dust and superb value for money - even for advanced learners. Thoroughly recommended. Have you thought about an intensive course in Poland? This helped me to grasp the basics at the beginning. Just a thought. Powodzenia!! By the way, spare a thought for learners of Hungarian, which has about 22 cases I am told. Polish just has 7 and one of them (the vocative) is very rarely used nowadays.


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## bg1

You need only 2 rules to make your Polish better ;-)
-Love it and
-Live with it.
The first one doesn't need explaination. The second one means you take it to your life. Don't watch Polish TV because you want to learn the language. Watch it because you want to follow the social and political situations. Don't read Polish books because you want to learn the language. Read the books that you are interested in. You won't realize when it comes to you ;-) Good luck!


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## bg1

For closer explaination, I think you have difficulties with cases not because you don't know them (you explained that you have checked the resources). The problem is that you are not familiar with the Polish language logic. But don't worry! It comes with the time!


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## cpuzey1

bg1,

czyli, mamy kochać go tak, jak kobietę?


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## bg1

Mniej więcej tak, z "małą" różnicą, że możesz kochać tyle języków*, ile chcesz ;-)

(*) no i z tymi wszystkimi żyć ;-)


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## Ben Jamin

><FISH'> said:


> I have been learning Polish for a few months now, and no matter how much I read about them, I just can't understand the various cases in Polish. As a native Anglophone, I can barely grasp the gender usages, let alone the seven different word cases. Does anyone have any simplistic resources/tips/explanations about this?
> 
> Some background information: I have very basic knowledge of Polish, small vocabulary, no concept of grammar (I usually just guess and hope it's comprehensible). I've been learning for quite a while now, but the lack of resources and guidance is somewhat obstructive.
> 
> Note: I have checked the resources and tips thread here already.


 
If you can not understand the very principle of cases, then, maybe, this explanation can help you:

In the English sentence "The man sees a dog" the roles are given by the order of the words in the sentence. If you change the order and get "The dog sees a man", the roles change.

In the corresponding Polish sentence "Człowiek widzi psa.", the roles are given not by the order in th esentence, but by the case.
The sentence "Psa widzi człowiek" the meaning is exactly the same, even if the order is changed. The roles are still marked by the case, not order. 
A case is a label, that signals the role in the sentence. The word order in a Polish sentence is much more free, and can express different shades of emphasis and meaning, than in an English sentence, but is not completely free. 
 
If you understand the principle, but have a problem with memorizing the rules of use (and exceptions) the only way to learn is using time and memorizing complete sentences, together with their translations. There is no easy way, sorry. After you have learned one inflected language, the next ones will be easier.


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## ><FISH'>

I have taken on board all of the replies, and have gained a bit more understanding on the cases and how they function. However, now I am confused about how to recognise and form these cases. I cannot see any pattern in how they are used practically, they all still seem to have random word endings as far as I can see.


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## Thomas1

Somoene will surely correct me if what I'm going to say in a moment is too absolute, but practically you only ever don't decline nouns (pronouns and adjectives too for that matter) when they function as the subject of a sentence. In all other cases you have to decline them. I'm afraid that learning all the endings by heart is the only way to master it. When to use which case may seem complicated at the beginning, but you can discern some patterns after a while if you recognise their function (e.g. if it is a direct or indirect complement of a verb, and so on). For instance lots of verbs require the direct object in the accusative and the indirect in the dative:
Pożyczyłem mu książkę.
mu is in the dative
książkę is in the accusative
I am sure there are more such patterns, Polish students will know them much better than I do.


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## majlo

^^ And they say English is difficult.


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## Ben Jamin

majlo said:


> ^^ And they say English is difficult.


 
Yes, English is difficult! But the difficulty is not the cases. For everyone the difficulty consists in learning the peculiar ways of expression in English, the idioms, the construction of the sentence. In addition there are difficulties specific for the speakers of different mother tongues. For the Slavic speakers the use of the definite articles is extremely difficult, but also for users of the languages that use the definite articles it is not easy, as the way there are used varies from language to language. 
And least, but not last, for the English themselves. How many can really express themselves in really good English? Try to read the texts published on the Web.


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