# Urdu/Hindi: Use of "kar" after names



## Qureshpor

*Have Urdu/Hindi speakers come across this use of 'kar"?

mujhe Kalluu-kar pukaarte haiN.

ghar hamaaraa Khaanah-i-Khudaa-kar mashuur thaa.
*


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## Qureshpor

QURESHPOR said:


> *Have Urdu/Hindi speakers come across this use of 'kar"?
> 
> mujhe Kalluu-kar pukaarte haiN.
> 
> ghar hamaaraa Khaanah-i-Khudaa-kar mashuur thaa.
> *



*Is this usage old and now completely obsolete?*


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## Illuminatus

I've heard it quite a few times, but I've heard it in the form "kar ke"


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> Originally Posted by *QURESHPOR*
> 
> *Have Urdu/Hindi speakers come across this use of 'kar"?
> 
> mujhe Kalluu-kar pukaarte haiN.
> 
> ghar hamaaraa Khaanah-i-Khudaa-kar mashuur thaa.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is this usage old and now completely obsolete?*
Click to expand...

 Yes this is obsolete and I'd agree with Illuminatus that if we were to use this kind of expression it would be with 'kar ke':

_ghar hamaaraa xaanah-e-xudaa kar ke mashuur thaa_

OR

_hamaare __ghar kaa naam x__aanah-e-xudaa kar ke liyaa jaataa thaa_


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## nineth

I've never come across those kind of sentences and I would consider them incomplete/missing something. As _Illuminatus_ says, "kar ke" is common in spoken/informal Hindi. "_mujhe nineth kar ke bulaatey hain". _


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## greatbear

QURESHPOR said:


> *Have Urdu/Hindi speakers come across this use of 'kar"?
> 
> mujhe Kalluu-kar pukaarte haiN.
> 
> ghar hamaaraa Khaanah-i-Khudaa-kar mashuur thaa.
> *



I've come across it rarely, though "kar ke" is much more common. However, there are a few people who do use it; personally, I prefer it over the "kar ke" form and I also use it sometimes (if I think the other person would understand this usage).


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## greatbear

I think "kar" is also used instead of "kar ke" in some other kinds of sentences; at least I've heard them, though rarely once again. For example, "woh mehnat kar (aage) badha hai" instead of "woh mehnat kar ke (aage) badha hai". Have others encountered such constructions with only "kar"?


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## nineth

greatbear said:


> I think "kar" is also used instead of "kar ke" in some other kinds of sentences; at least I've heard them, though rarely once again. For example, "woh mehnat kar (aage) badha hai" instead of "woh mehnat kar ke (aage) badha hai". Have others encountered such constructions with only "kar"?



This one sounds fine, but note that its usage and function here is not the same as in the original post.


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## Qureshpor

Thank you all for your contributions. Many years back I remember coming across this "-kar" construction in "A grammar of the Hindustani or Urdu language" by John Thompson Platts. The sentences I have quoted in my initial post are taken from there and there was no "ke" after the "kar". I wonder if "kah" is understood in this construction.


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## greatbear

I don't think so; "kah" would always be followed by "ke".


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> I don't think so; "kah" would always be followed by "ke".



"kah kar" is perfectly acceptable and common. Here is a quote from a man originating in "Malihabad" which I hope is 
nowhere near Bihar!

SaaGhar kaa naam sunte hii vuh uchhal paRe, dauR kar meraa haat pakaR liyaa. kahne lage maiN aap ko aise munaafiq ke paas jaane kii ijaazat hargiz nahiiN duuN gaa jis ko aap ne PaNDiit jii se *kah kar* reDiyo meN naukar rakhvaayaa thaa awr is kaa badlah us ne yih diyaa hai kih jab se aap Pakistan chale gae haiN vuh aap ke KHilaaf zahr ugaltaa phirtaa hai. 

(Josh Malihabadi- "merii yaadoN ke chiraaGh")


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## marrish

As far as I can recollect, kar ke was commonly used by some friends from Gujarati background. But not only! It gives a lightness to the speech! It is definitely not _kah kar_; I might attempt to interpret it as follows (take with a big pinch of salt):
 wuh use Pinky kar ke pukaarte haiN "they call her *as* Pinky, *doing* Pinky *making a sound of* Pinky.
Us kaa bhalaa naam kyaa thaa? Wuh waalii? Pinky kar ke shaayad? "What was her name? That one's? *Something like *Pinky maybe?"


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## nineth

There is nothing wrong with "kah kar"; in fact, I consider _kahke_ as a short-cut for it. I wouldn't consider _kah_ to be understood in this context.


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## greatbear

Of course, "kah kar" and "kah ke" are perfectly fine, though the first one is a bit "heavier"!


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## Qureshpor

ghar hamaaraa xaanah-i-Allah *kar* mashuur thaa
sau butoN ke 3ishq meN ab vuh bhii but-xaanah hu'aa

Asif-ud-daula

In today's language, one would say...ghar hamaaraa xaanah-i-Allah *se* mashuur thaa.


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## Jashn

I wonder if this thread didn't end up discussing two separate subjects accidentally?

Regarding names, I wonder if it was a pan-North Indian practice at some point? I didn't know this was done in Urdu and Hindi, but I'm aware of Marathis having a similar practice where it indicates where the family originally resided. For example, Lata Mangeshkar's family originally came from a village called Mangeshi.

The question of the usage of 'kar'/'kar ke' also arises. In khaDi boli, you would not use 'kar ke' in certain registers, and I've read books where it was avoided. So a sentence might read something like, 'vo apana kaam kar yahaan aaya' in lieu of what I think is the more common 'vo apana kam kar ke yahaan aaya'. My understanding from what I was taught in university is that this is more common in literary Hindi than spoken Hindi, and non-existent in Urdu.


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## Qureshpor

Jashn said:


> I wonder if this thread didn't end up discussing two separate subjects accidentally?
> 
> Regarding names, I wonder if it was a pan-North Indian practice at some point? I didn't know this was done in Urdu and Hindi, but I'm aware of Marathis having a similar practice where it indicates where the family originally resided. For example, Lata Mangeshkar's family originally came from a village called Mangeshi.
> 
> The question of the usage of 'kar'/'kar ke' also arises. In khaDi boli, you would not use 'kar ke' in certain registers, and I've read books where it was avoided. So a sentence might read something like, 'vo apana kaam kar yahaan aaya' in lieu of what I think is the more common 'vo apana kam kar ke yahaan aaya'. My understanding from what I was taught in university is that this is more common in literary Hindi than spoken Hindi, and non-existent in Urdu.


I agree. The Hindi speakers appear to be talking about the conjunctive participle "kar ke"/"kar" (the latter for Hindi only) while I had a different concept in mind which the Hindi speakers did not appear to be aware of.


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