# Hindi, Urdu: लब्धि / لبدهہ



## MonsieurGonzalito

Friends,

In the sentence below, does labdhi have its participial_ value (=taken, obtained)_ or its nominal value _(=acquisition, gain)_?
It is also from the song "Bulleya", and the general idea is to follow the path of one's spiritual guide, et cetera.
(I am providing the second verse for just context)

_vah maiN taaN hūN pagDaNDii *labdhi *aae jo raah jannat kii 
tū muRe jahaaN maiN saath muṛ jaaūN_

My (weak) attempt:
_I am there, in that narrow path where comes* the acquisition* of the road (of) heaven
wherever side you turn, I shall turn_

Please help


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## marrish

The word is *láb_hdii*. In Urdu it is *miltii*.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Oh, ਲੱਭਣਾ / لبھّنڑا !
They put the random Punjabi word just to keep me on my toes 
Thanks, @marrish

... added to which, online translations/transliterations are pitiful ...


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> vah maiN taaN hūN pagDaNDii labdhi [labhdii]* aae* jo raah jannat kii


Are you sure that it is _*'aae'*_? Or is it '*ē*'?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> Are you sure that it is _*'aae'*_? Or is it '*ē*'?


paying attention to the singer it is *ē*
Thanks again!


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## marrish

You're welcome. Actually, I made a typo, what I meant is *æ*. See here*.* (because it's what fits the text).


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> You're welcome. Actually, I made a typo, what I meant is *æ*. See here*.* (because it's what fits the text).


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> vah maiN taaN hūN pagDaNDii *labdhi *aae jo raah jannat kii





MonsieurGonzalito said:


> ... added to which, online translations/transliterations are pitiful ...


Yes, of course they are, we've all been aware of this fact and encountered bogus words in many threads.
One hint towards the origin of such mistakes is the tendency of putting a similarly sounding, real or made up Sanskrit(-ic) word wherever the transcribers draw a blank, like the recent, 





MonsieurGonzalito said:


> ਰੱਖੀ ਸਾਬਕ ਸਿੱਧਕ ਅਮਾਲ


even if that doesn't fit the phonotactics of the source language.
.
I understand that it's difficult to get hold of proper texts and starting a thread with a lesser version can be inevitable. Here on the forum we're discussing 'online' as well, so perhaps once the words have been established, a correct online translation/transliteration/version can be put on the record?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> a correct online translation/transliteration/version can be put on the record?


Don't know if it is "correct", but gladly:

वह मैं तां हूँ पगडंडी लभ्भदी ऐ
जो राह जन्नत की
तू मुड़े जहाँ मैं साथ मुड़ जाऊँ

_I am there, where a narrow path
meets the road to heaven
wherever side you turn, I shall turn

("लभ्भदी ऐ" is the best I can come up with)_


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## marrish

My take for Nagari would be लब्भदी, the rest is really correct (one missing "moon" in the third word and the first word वह is Hindi, but I think there's a relaxed attitude towards those).
Re. Translation: I can't spot either 'there' or 'where' in the first and second part of the source text.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> one missing "moon"


Platts has it with bindu only (abridged for _tahaN_) , and neither Bahri nor Caturvedi reflect it, in either spelling.




marrish said:


> I can't spot either 'there' or 'where'


that is because I am assuming that *taaN* and the next *jo*  form a relative clause: 
_I am there/in that place ... where_


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## marrish

No, it's Punjabi, _láb_hdii_ alike. And the Urdu equivalent given in my initial response is not the only one possible, which on a closer look, lest it should mislead you_ , _should be ڈھونڈتی _DhuuNDtii._


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## MonsieurGonzalito

ਢੂੰਡਣਾ / ڈُھونڈنڑا / DhūNDNRaa ?
OK, I am thoroughly confused now.


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> ਢੂੰਡਣਾ / ڈُھونڈنڑا / DhūNDNRaa ?
> OK, I am thoroughly confused now.


I was talking about the Urdu equivalent or translation of the verbal form _láb_hdii_ referring to '_*miltii*_' (post 2). In Urdu.

Punjabi láb_hNRaa = U. milnaa, paanaa; DhuuNDnaa etc.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Oh, OK, sorry. We leave the "taaN" in peace, then  

_In a place where a narrow path *searches* the road to heaven_


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## marrish

*لبھدیاں ای لبھدا اے *_láb_hdiyaaN ii láb_hdaa æ!_
---
"to search" is indeed the verb I had in mind.

*wuh maiN taaN huN pagDaNDii láb_hdii æ jo raah jannat kii*

Could you try to re-write it in a most neutral word order as you think would be alright? Because, from:


MonsieurGonzalito said:


> *I *am there


you have arrived at "*in* a place", so we need to get the basics right in the first place. I assure you you'll appreciate the text.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Oh, sorry, I meant

_I am in that place where a narrow path searches the road to heaven._

My reasoning being:
_I am = maiN huN
in that place ... where = vah taaN ... jo
a narrow path = pagDaNDii
searches = [labhbhdī ai] in Punjabi
the road to heaven =  jannat kii raah_


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Oh, sorry, I meant


I mostly do follow what you mean 


MonsieurGonzalito said:


> My reasoning being:
> _I am = maiN hu*u*N
> in that place ... where = vah taaN ...jo
> a narrow path = pagDaNDii [*...jo..*.]
> searches = [lab*h*bhdī ai] in Punjabi
> the road to heaven =  jannat kii raah_*(actually the Paradise)*


_taaN_ is Punjabi. Just leave it out, remove it, for the time being (though it was already mentioned) and see where you are now.
{It seems you're still thinking about Pnj. _taaN_ as equal to U. _tahaaN_ which has fallen out of use, that's not the case, it's just a particle.}


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## MonsieurGonzalito

OK, so

_[ve] maiN [taaN] hūN pagDaNDii labhdii ai jō raah jannat kii
I am a narrow path which searches the road to Paradise._

If _*taaN*_ is Punjabi, then it means something like _that's why, so, therefore_
If _*ve*_ is Punjabi, then it can mean "Oh!" or "is".
I don't know how they fit in the sentence above.

I also hesitate with _*taaN*_ because a few verses before there is the "butterfly" verse (_maiN taaN gul sē lipTii titlii .._.), which does use _taaN_ adverbially as "tahaaN"


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## marrish

Yes, now you have the meaning right! But, Pnb. تاں _taaN _neither here, nor in the other verse stands for_ U. تہاں tahaaN _, because it simply doesn't carry this meaning in Pnb. and is hardly ever used in Urdu.


marrish said:


> it's just a particle


U. تو _to_. [EDIT:] It would be better to consider the meanings/usages of this Urdu AND Punjabi word if you don't want to be somewhat misguided by the definition from Patiala.

I never said there was "ve"!


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## marrish

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> *vah*


_vaah!_ I've fallen prey to confusion as well! Let me explain myself. As the primary source language in the title of the thread is Hindi, I thought the song to be in Hindi indeed. Look at the text in the OP, with 'vah', and 'labdhi' and you know, these words aren't Urdu words. I had answered your main question right away pointing to the Pnb. láb_hdii and giving a hint to its meaning and form by providing an analogous word in basic Urdu, knowing that at this register it shared its vocabulary with Hindi for easy understanding.

But in the course of our exchange the real source language became obvious to me.


MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Don't know if it is "correct", but gladly:
> 
> *वह *मैं तां हूँ पगडंडी लभ्भदी ऐ





marrish said:


> the first word *वह* is *Hindi*


This comment of mine, none different from others I make to show you, is meant to be a correction. Read: for वह vah is unquestionably Hindi 'he, she, it, that', and he didn't say that it's one of these Punjabi words, then the only reason he did point it out must've been that Hindi 'vah' sticks out like a sore thumb the same way Hindi _labdhi_ लब्धि does.


marrish said:


> *wuh *maiN taaN huN pagDaNDii láb_hdii æ jo raah jannat kii


Above, I wrote 'wuh' for it to  which is the transliteration of Urdu وہ - that is the form this personal pronoun has in Urdu in both numbers.


marrish said:


> I never said there was "ve"!


I haven't indeed. How could I have guessed that?
I hadn't paid attention to the fact that there's a song's name in the OP... I only realised what we were talking about when you mentioned "gul se lipTii"....

It's a written discussion, but it dawned upon me finally that this might be a mistaken word too, as is in case in so many other texts in your threads which exhibit clear evidence of a Sanskritization/Indianization process at play.

I began searching for the song.

----
As the song is *not* in *Hindi* but in *Punjabi-laced Urdu*, it is indeed

Pnb. *vē*!

It couldn't have been _*vah*_ anyway.

PS.
Why not provide factual and actual information in each thread? I enjoyed some of them.

the source language,
proper acknowledgments
*My tip for the proper (con)text: *First listen. Then write. Then look for texts. If not, *listen* with the text. Ears first, then eyes.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thank you, @marrish!

I indeed added to the confusion with "vah".
The singer clearly says "ve" (as in वे وے ਵੇ )

So, assuming that I got the main meaning right, then we can chalk "ve" as some Punjabi "Oh!", and the "taaN" as some Punjabi equivalent for an emphatic تو तो , and all clear!


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## marrish

Yes, finally we've got here. Let's not forget the fact that the script you have used has added to the confusion.

OK, so how do you see the meaning now, as read together with the second part of the verse, just to be sure?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

_Oh, I am indeed a narrow path that searches the road to Paradise
wherever side you turn, I shall turn_


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## marrish

It's always the problem with some 20 words and other basic building blocks of the language.

-----------------
وے میں تاں ہوں پگڈنڈی لبھدی اے جو راہ جنّت کی
Look, I'm like a/the path, which searches/attains the road to the Paradise.
تُو مڑے جہاں میں ساتھ مڑ جاؤں
I shall/would take a turn along with you at the point you might change your direction.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thanks, @marrish!
The Punjabi-lacing went a little out of hand on this one


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