# Hindi: ९० and ९१



## James Bates

How is ९० pronounced? I've seen it written नब्बे but only heard it pronounced navvay. I've seen ९१ written both इक्यानवे and इक्यानबे but only heard it pronounced ikyaanvay.


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## littlepond

I have always heard it "nabbe" (नब्बे), never "navvay"! As for 90+, both variants exist: I pronounce them as "ikyaanve", "baanve", and so on till "ninyaanve". 95 has again many variants, btw.


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## James Bates

Well, I'll be!


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## mundiya

Both "nabbe" and "navve" (not "nabbay" or "navvay") are used in speech and writing.  There is a -be/-ve variation for all numbers in the 90-99 range.


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## James Bates

I've never seen navve written before.


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## mundiya

"nabbe" is far more common, why is why I'm surprised you've only seen it in writing and not heard it in speech.


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## James Bates

I see


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## marrish

James Bates said:


> How is ९० pronounced? I've seen it written नब्बे but only heard it pronounced navvay. I've seen ९१ written both इक्यानवे and इक्यानबे but only heard it pronounced ikyaanvay.


A thread for reference, http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/hindi-ninety.2458090/ titled Hindi: ninety. Some say nabbe is very widespread others that it's occurence is limited; the matter of writing it in Hindi though is thought to be a matter of being true to KhaRi bolii and write so. In Urdu it is written and spoken nawwe/navve but it is mentioned that the variant with "b" is also there in Urdu. So basically it should be written _navve_ in Hindi but as the difference between pronouncing "v" or "b" is normal then why not represent it in script. There are many words that alternate these vowels. I have the feeling though that _nabbe_ is more common among the Hindi speaking population, so it should be OK to write it so. Poets have written both ek and ik, both do and du, tiin and tir/tar, chaar/chatur/chahaar, paNch and paaNch and so on, so there is no obstacle to write it as one is used to speak it. If it comes to Hindi print, many words have randomly v or b, which is due to confusion in the printing press but also while typing or writing I suppose. You can find bakt and vakt/vaqt but it doesn't mean that the one who types it does pronounce it with "b", I think, so it is rather due to sloppiness and the graphical similarity of the two letters, which are only different from each other by a small line inside "v".


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## Englishmypassion

I hear, pronounce and write them as nabbe, ikyanbe, etc. Yes, sometimes I also hear ikyanve, banve, etc.


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## mundiya

marrish said:


> So basically it should be written _navve_ in Hindi



There doesn't seem to be a consensus on "nabbe" vs. "navve" as far as dictionaries are concerned.  Some prefer "nabbe", while others prefer "navve".  Therefore, it's best to look at popular and literary usage, where "nabbe" is the norm.


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## marrish

^ I agree, I said that if the popular usage, which I thought to be more than the 50% for "_nabbe_" means it should be written like this. If you add that it is also the norm in literary usage, then I don't see a reason why _nabbe_ would be wrong.


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## hindiurdu

Nabbe is more common among younger people than older ones but I hear navve from plenty of younger people too, and hear nabbe from some older folks too. Note that the suffix is -aanve and not -aanbe (which would be considered wrong by everyone). So, navve > nabbe seems like a recent shift.


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## marrish

It's good news for me that navve is spoken by young and older folks as well. The recent shift may be influenced by the re-emergence of "local Hindis" in numbers. But I have no objection to adapting the script or writing convention and write nabbe and navve by whoever speaks that way. The majority of those local Hindis democratically have the right to follow their Hindi, not the KhB standard.


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## mundiya

hindiurdu said:


> Nabbe is more common among younger people than older ones but I hear navve from plenty of younger people too, and hear nabbe from some older folks too. Note that the suffix is -aanve and not -aanbe (which would be considered wrong by everyone). So, navve > nabbe seems like a recent shift.



I disagree with this assessment.  "nabbe" is more common among all generations of Hindi speakers in my experience.  Platts has entries for both "nabbe" and "navve".  So, I don't think it is a "recent shift", but likely a variation from early times.  The -aanbe form is used commonly too, both in literature and dictionaries. Thus, I don't see how it would be "considered wrong by everyone".


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## Englishmypassion

mundiya said:


> I disagree with this assessment.  "nabbe" is more common among all generations of Hindi speakers in my experience.




That's my experience, too.


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## hindiurdu

mundiya said:


> I disagree with this assessment.  "nabbe" is more common among all generations of Hindi speakers in my experience.  Platts has entries for both "nabbe" and "navve".  So, I don't think it is a "recent shift", but likely a variation from early times.  The -aanbe form is used commonly too, both in literature and dictionaries. Thus, I don't see how it would be "considered wrong by everyone".



Baanbe for 92? I've personally never heard it. As a crude test, I entered बानवे and बानबे into Google book search. The first had 505 hits and the other 31, of which some seemed to be Nepali. Same for पचानवे (161 book hits) and पचानबे (18 book hits). By no means is this authoritative and can only be regarded as an anecdotal data point. I suspect nabbe and, thereforce, -aanbe is Eastern in origin. v > b shift is an indicator to me at least. I checked several dictionaries - Rajpal, Thompson, Lazarus, Hinkhoj, Shabdkosh - and they all said pachaanve. Given the Google book hits, I am sure some references could be found for pachaanbe, but this is at variance from my experience. Yours might vary.


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## mundiya

hindiurdu said:


> Baanbe for 92? I've personally never heard it. As a crude test, I entered बानवे and बानबे into Google book search. The first had 505 hits and the other 31, of which some seemed to be Nepali. Same for पचानवे (161 book hits) and पचानबे (18 book hits). By no means is this authoritative and can only be regarded as an anecdotal data point. I suspect nabbe and, thereforce, -aanbe is Eastern in origin. v > b shift is an indicator to me at least. I checked several dictionaries - Rajpal, Thompson, Lazarus, Hinkhoj, Shabdkosh - and they all said pachaanve. Given the Google book hits, I am sure some references could be found for pachaanbe, but this is at variance from my experience. Yours might vary.



There is a significant difference between saying a particular form is less common and saying that it's wrong.  Though both are fairly common in my experience, I would agree that -aanbe is less common than -aanve but neither is wrong.  If -aanbe were wrong, then dictionaries such as Bahri's (e.g. बानबे and तिरानबे) and Hindi Shabd Saagar wouldn't have -aanbe entries.  The latter dictionary, in fact, only has -aanbe entries, none for -aanve (e.g पंचानबे). The same is true for Subodh Hindi Grammar & Composition (only -aanbe).  In Google books, many of the results for -aanve are false positives because they turn out as -aanbe upon clicking the links. For example, in the top 10 results for तिरानवे in Google books, 3 are तिरानबे and one has both तिरानवे and तिरानबे.


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## marrish

Remember that b and v is often random in Hindi print.


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## Wolverine9

marrish said:


> Remember that b and v is often random in Hindi print.



The examples mundiya provided from Bahri's dictionary show the Romanization and indicate the acceptability of the v and b versions.


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## marrish

As far as the dictionary is concerned it is indeed clear-cut that nabbe exists, other numbers like 92 and 93 are both there with -ve and -be, one time listed first with -be then with -ve. I have been repeating my stance that nabbe should be written because it is correct (others said it too) but the matter is that randomness or sloppiness of Hindi print (more so for off-set books and other publications) with regard to b and v is a factor in the attempts at looking at some results from the internet. It influences it by being a grey share of the results in which it is not certain if b or v was meant to be typed (or written).


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## urdustan

Which variant would Hindi learners be recommended to use for numbers between 90 and 99?


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## mundiya

urdustan said:


> Which variant would Hindi learners be recommended to use for numbers between 90 and 99?



I recommend the following because they are the most common…

nabbe, ikyaanve, baanve, tiraanve, chauraanve, pachaanve, chhiyaanve, sattaanve, aTThaanve, ninyaanve.


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## littlepond

I also agree with mundiya jii's list.


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## bakshink

some people in Punjabi too speak "Navvay", my father used to


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## mundiya

^ I've never heard "navvay" in Indian Punjabi, nor have I seen it written that way in Gurmukhi. If you mean "navve", then yes, some do use it.  But the norm is "nabbe". I'm curious what the norm is in Pakistani Punjabi.


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## bakshink

mundiya said:


> ^ I've never heard "navvay" in Indian Punjabi, nor have I seen it written that way in Gurmukhi. If you mean "navve", then yes, some do use it. But the norm is "nabbe". I'm curious what the norm is in Pakistani Punjabi.



I meant navve Mundiya- Thanks


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