# cat -- gender



## Silvertongue

Hi.
I was listening to a lecture at university and our teacher said that "cat", in english, means always a female one, if not specified otherwise. 
Is it true? Every time I read or heard the word "cat", have I to assume that it is female, in conteporary english?
Sometimes the cat gender matters, in a poem or as the animal-mate of a character, so I wish to understand better.
Thanks for any reply.


----------



## suzi br

That sounds like nonsense to me! I never think the word cat applies to only female cats, though we *can* mark out the male by calling them Tom Cats.


----------



## Adimine

I agree with Suzi br.  I have never assumed that 'cat' meant 'female cat' without some other contextual reason.

Out of interest, the online Oxford English Dictionary records these sex-specific names:

Males: 'he-cat', 'boar-cat' (outdated), 'ram-cat' (outdated), 'gib-cat' (North England and Scotland).

Females: 'she-cat', 'doe-cat' (outdated)


----------



## Nunty

Welcome to the forum, Silvertongue. 

I agree with everyone else. English does not have grammatical gender, of course, and "cat" does not mean "female cat" any more than "bird" means female bird".


----------



## Packard

Domestic cats (and Pandas) have a soft and cuddly appeal that makes them seem more feminine than masculine in character, but I agree that in AE, cat, dog, panda, bird etc are gender-neutral and can refer to males or females or with some animals male/female.


----------



## Bevj

I think the 'official' word for a female cat is a 'queen', and as suzi stated, a male is often called a 'tom'.


----------



## Nunty

Bevj said:


> I think the 'official' word for a female cat is a 'queen', and as suzi stated, a male is often called a 'tom'.



This would serve to reinforce the idea that the word _cat _is gender neutral.


----------



## Silvertongue

Thanks to everybody!
I was puzzled because it sounded strange to me also, so I asked ^_^

Thank you for the welcome, Nunty ^_^ 

Tom Cat sounds funny, I like it!


----------



## Billf

Out of interest, and loosely connected to the subject in question.  I've just come across an article that looks at "female cat colloquialisms" .   Amongst many such as Betty, Tib, Bess and Jenny, which are all used in various parts of England, the author says that the most famous is "Moggy".  Moggy, so far as I am aware, is widely used in the UK to describe any domestic cat, irrespective of gender.  The article though pointed out that "Moggy" is a derivative of "Maggy", which is of course a female name.

Meanwhile, I entirely agree with the previous contributors to this thread, that "cat" is not a feminine term, but used when referring to pretty much any feline.


----------



## panjandrum

I have no evidence or rational explanation for this, but as a crude generalisation, people tend to refer cats as she, dogs as he, unless they actually know which they are.  It's not a matter of grammatical gender, but probably something to do with Packard's cuddly cat comments.


----------



## Silvertongue

panjandrum said:


> but probably something to do with Packard's cuddly cat comments.


 
Packard's cuddly cat comments?
What are they?


Thanks for the article, it's very interesting. Nice names for female cats, I can hardly find something similar in my language, except some old-fashioned and childish ones.


----------



## Loob

Silvertongue said:


> Packard's cuddly cat comments?
> What are they?


Panj was referring to Packard's comments in post 5 of the thread


----------



## Silvertongue

Oh ah, ops! Sorry, I didn't recognize the name.


----------



## mplsray

I believe that this identifying a cat as a female unless otherwise specified is a dated usage. An example is from this famous quote by Mark Twain:



> We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it--and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again--and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.



Modern speakers attempting to remember this quote will often replace "she" with "he" or "it," because the tendency to think of a cat whose sex has not been specifically identified as a female is much weaker than it used to be. (It seems quite foreign to me, even after having read most of Twain's works.)


----------



## Loob

mplsray said:


> the tendency to think of a cat whose sex has not been specifically identified as a female is much weaker than it used to be. (It seems quite foreign to me, even after having read most of Twain's works.)


Interesting, Ray. It seems quite foreign to me, too: I don't think I'd come across it before panj's post.  

No doubt something to do with the fact I grew up with a ginger tom-cat.


----------



## Silvertongue

Curious...I should retain this quote. 
It sounds like a proverb of my own culture (italian). And it makes the question come to my mind: in proverbs, does you use "it", or "she", or something else, where you refer to cats? Or is it the same than in spoken english? I know a few of them but none with pronouns, to check out the occurance.


----------



## Prower

What about Pussy-cat? No one has mentioned it. Is it out of use or does it have a bit intimite connotation?


----------



## sdgraham

Please see: Pussycat: Is it a vulgar meaning?


----------



## duvija

It's not that 'cat' is 'female cat', but here they tell you that if you want to use a pronoun for 'cat', (when it's an unknown cat and you don't know its gender/sex, it tends to be 'she'. (Meaning, I should have said '...and you don't know her gender...)


----------



## se16teddy

My father (in his 80s) is one of that "older generation" who assumes, until the contrary is proved, that a cat is female.  With dogs, it is male until the contrary is proved.


----------



## duvija

se16teddy said:


> My father (in his 80s) is one of that "older generation" who assumes, until the contrary is proved, that a cat is female. With dogs, it is male until the contrary is proved.



Really? I thought it was just the choice of the feminine article/possessive when referring to an unknown cat. Same with boats and cars (and presumably, there is no sex difference it these).


----------



## Packard

Just an open question: If I refer to a panther, tiger, leopard, or lion, do you think male or female?

If I refer to a Rottweiler, Doberman Pincher, German Shepherd (Alsatian), or Pit Bull Terrier, do you think male or female?

If the animal is scary is it male or female? If it is cuddly is it male or female.

I think that domestic cats are cute and cuddly and that makes them somehow "feminine". (My personal experiences notwithstanding.)


----------



## Andygc

duvija said:


> but here they tell you that if you want to use a pronoun for 'cat',


Not here in my house, a cat is most definitely "it".

(as for dogs, if you can't tell a dog from a bitch at 50 yards you need new glasses)


----------



## Loob

Andygc said:


> (as for dogs, if you can't tell a dog from a bitch at 50 yards you need new glasses)


----------



## panjandrum

Andygc said:


> Not here in my house, a cat is most definitely "it".
> 
> (as for dogs, if you can't tell a dog from a bitch at 50 yards you need new glasses)


That all depends on the point of view and the angle of dangle.
Generally speaking, when a dog appears misbehaving in my garden I don't take the time to inspect its genitals.  And I assume he's male.
And cats are still she.


----------



## duvija

Yes, cats are 'she'. Dogs, nope. And here you don't know what they are, because they are all fixed. They all look alike.
I wonder (really) about rabbits. Tiny ones. I would say 'she', but I'm not a native...


----------



## Packard

panjandrum said:


> That all depends on the point of view and the angle of dangle.
> Generally speaking, when a dog appears misbehaving in my garden I don't take the time to inspect its genitals.  And I assume he's male.
> And cats are still she.


And when asked if my dog is a male, I invariably reply, "Almost." (Neutered--no glasses required.)


----------



## Kayta

Packard said:


> Just an open question: If I refer to a panther, tiger, leopard, or lion, do you think male or female?



To me cats are generally she. Same with panther, tiger, leopard. But to my ear, lion implies male otherwise I'd expect to hear lioness.


----------



## stormwreath

The thing is, a lion and a lioness look completely different even to a casual glance, so distinguishing between male and female pronouns makes sense. For most other animals, you can't really tell their sex at a casual glance unless you go peering underneath them at their genitals, which personally speaking, isn't a habit of mine.  So I use 'it' for most animals unless I actually know their sex.


----------



## Uncle Bob

se16teddy said:


> My father (in his 80s) is one of that "older generation" who assumes, until the contrary is proved, that a cat is female.  With dogs, it is male until the contrary is proved.



That would seem logical because if the cat were male one would tend to say "the ginger tom from next door" and if the dog were female one would say "the neighbours' bitch" without being pedantic or "scientific".


----------



## Thomas Tompion

I take Stormwreath's line on this.  Very sound post.  It's not a habit of mine either.


----------



## suzi br

Packard said:


> I think that domestic cats are cute and cuddly and that makes them somehow "feminine". (My personal experiences notwithstanding.)



Indeed I could introduce you to some not very cute or cuddly females, myself included at times!


----------



## se16teddy

Packard said:


> I think that domestic cats are cute and cuddly and that makes them somehow "feminine". (My personal experiences notwithstanding.)


I thought it was more that cats move more smoothly or gracefully than dogs, and that this kind of movement is associated with a certain stereotype of womanhood, not masculinity.  Then both "catty" and "bitchy" are words that I associate with a certain kind of stereotypically female passive aggression; but bitches are female dogs but cats are the species as a whole.


----------



## polgy70

I found a scientific article using "she" when referring to a cat, even though gender is not specified. This happened in several parts, e.g.

"Abstract - how does a falling cat change _her_ orientation..."

"Introduction - It is well know that a cat, when released from an upside is able to land on _her _feet..."

Near-Optimal Nonholonomic Motion Planning for a System of Coupled Rigid Bodies. 
IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON AUTOMATIC CONTROL, VOL. 39, NO. 3, MARCH 1994


----------



## velisarius

The authors of that article (judging by their names)  don't seem to be native speakers, so their insistence on the female gender of cats proves nothing.

In some languages, cats are generally female and dogs are male - unless they aren't and it matters.


----------



## duvija

OK. in English (at least in Am. Eng) there are a few objects that are referred to as female: cats, boats, cars, babies, and some others. There is no explanation, it's just is. I would like to know if in Br. Eng is the same.


----------



## dojibear

In some languages, words use male or female articles and adjectives. English has a little of that: traditionally boats and cars are "she/her". Babies are not, and I don't think cats are either.


----------



## kentix

I agree. Boats are shes and not much else.


----------



## duvija

Ships, cars, and yes, cats. At least in Chicago. I had to learn that by punching myself in/on the head.
Any Midwesterners, please ...


----------



## Andygc

polgy70 said:


> "Introduction - It is well know that a cat, *when released from an upside* is able to land on _her _feet..."


Clearly not written by native English speakers.


duvija said:


> there are a few objects that are referred to as female: cats, boats, cars, babies,


Babies!!! Where on Earth did you get that idea? 
DOL "Oh, isn't she cute!" 
OM "*He* is called John, thank you!"
I doubt that any English speaker would have used "she" in a paper about cats landing on their feet.

DOL = daft old lady
OM = offended mum


----------



## duvija

Uhmmm, I studied it in a linguistics class, on 'morphosyntax', shortened to 'morphotax'... And yes, the professor was a native Eng. speaker, of course. We had tons of examples. Do I remember them? of course not.


----------



## suzi br

Gosh. This is a blast from the past. I read it all again! 

This single paper using “she” for generic cats proves nothing. My first thought would be that the author is doing what I sometimes do: choosing not to use a male-specific pronoun for a general example. However, I would certainly use “it” for animals in that context.

As for the side-issue of babies, I think it’s something we have discussed elsewhere. It’s a touchy issue. Parents do not like bystanders to use “it” and picking the wrong gender can also upset the parents.

However, I don’t accept that “she” is the default pronoun. That’s counter to every other bit of the English language where the masculine form usually dominates. Look, in reality it’s a fleeting  moment  in the baby’s life when its gender is unknown to you. You negotiate it delicately. One way is to say this to the baby:
What are you called?
The parents answer for the mute one and, even if they’ve chosen some gender-unspecific name they’ll usually stick a pronoun in:
He’s called Texas.


----------



## duvija

Don't forget 'countries'. (Mother Russia, etc.)


----------



## polgy70

suzi br said:


> Gosh. This is a blast from the past. I read it all again!
> 
> This single paper using “she” for generic cats proves nothing. My first thought would be that the author is doing what I sometimes do: choosing not to use a male-specific pronoun for a general example. However, I would certainly use “it” for animals in that context.
> 
> As for the side-issue of babies, I think it’s something we have discussed elsewhere. It’s a touchy issue. Parents do not like bystanders to use “it” and picking the wrong gender can also upset the parents.
> 
> However, I don’t accept that “she” is the default pronoun. That’s counter to every other bit of the English language where the masculine form usually dominates. Look, in reality it’s a fleeting  moment  in the baby’s life when its gender is unknown to you. You negotiate it delicately. One way is to say this to the baby:
> What are you called?
> The parents answer for the mute one and, even if they’ve chosen some gender-unspecific name they’ll usually stick a pronoun in:
> He’s called Texas.



... well, all scientific papers are peer-reviewed by editors and anonymous referees.. it is highly unlikely that none of these people is a mother tongue. Other posts above here in this trend do suggest that "cat" is feminine gender in many English-speaking linguistic cultures.


----------



## polgy70

... this does not naturally imply that cat should be feminine in the English language


----------



## Thomas Tompion

These behavioural scientists who are turning cats upside-down before dropping them, cruelly to see how long it takes them to turn round in the air, are not a breed to take gender lightly.  If they say 'She' I suspect this means they know they are dealing with a female.

I went to dinner with my brother last night and the neighbour's male cat, Parker, came out as usual to say Good Evening, being a fine cat with impeccable manners.

Because tom-cats have inconvenient habits, like 'spraying', and impregnating most of the females in the parish, the English are quick to remove their gonads, which can make sexual identification tricky.  I suspect that Parker has been adapted in this way.  I haven't asked him, and I always refer to him as 'He'.  I tell him he's a fine cat and eschew anthropomorphising and patronising expressions like 'Good boy'.  I would correct, gently, someone who talked of Parker as 'She' on grounds of plain inaccuracy.

My experience is that people who don't know about or are not fond of cats either duck the question of gender, calling a cat 'It', but that people who like cats discover the gender, by one means or another, and then use the gender-specific pronoun or adjective.  If the cat lives in the family, then surely calling the cat 'him' or 'her' quickly becomes normal and polite.

I don't want much to do with people who assume all cats are female.


----------



## Andygc

polgy70 said:


> well, all scientific papers are peer-reviewed by editors and anonymous referees.. it is highly unlikely that none of these people is a mother tongue.


You are making unwarranted assumptions.


polgy70 said:


> It is well know that a cat, *when released from an upside* is


That is, as I already pointed out, not English. 

By the way, editors don't peer review as they are rarely subject matter experts - they aren't peers. The peer part of the review process is done by reviewers. Editors are responsible for editing, and the editor or sub-editor here has not done a good job. (I was a reviewer before I retired.)


----------



## suzi br

polgy70 said:


> ... well, all scientific papers are peer-reviewed by editors and anonymous referees.. it is highly unlikely that none of these people is a mother tongue. Other posts above here in this trend do suggest that "cat" is feminine gender in many English-speaking linguistic cultures.



We must be reading different things.
We certainly don’t share the same ideas about what one flimsy bit of evidence reveals.

I think Thomas could be right, the scientists maybe know the gender of the poor feline they are throwing around. That would account for the use of « she »


----------



## Barque

I don't know if I'm right but I've always had the impression that there are generally more female cats than male, and that's why many people refers to cats as "she" by default. I mean - I thought cats deliver more female than male kittens in any given litter.

I don't have any basis for this statement - just an impression I've got over the years as a result of meeting many more female cats than male ones.


----------



## Myridon

Barque said:


> I don't know if I'm right but I've always had the impression that there are generally more female cats than male, and that's why many people refers to cats as "she" by default. I mean - I thought cats deliver more female than male kittens in any given litter.
> 
> I don't have any basis for this statement - just an impression I've got over the years as a result of meeting many more female cats than male ones.


From a quick Google, I found studies in which about 49% of kittens were male.  According to one study, there were 99.3 males per 100 females.  I don' think you'd notice that difference.


----------



## duvija

OK, then the usage is regional. And no, nobody assumes the cat in question is really a female. It's just the pronoun generally used is 'she'. (I just checked with some old professors at the University of Chicago, my Linguistics alma mater). Just to be clear: gender is grammatical, sex is physical (unless some cats are trans, but we are not here to criticize anybody). Lately, people are using 'gender' for everything - as in 'Gender studies' but that's for avoiding the word 'sex' with other connotations besides just a marker. It's more complicated in Spanish, where 'género' used to be just 'fabric'.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

Barque said:


> I don't know if I'm right but I've always had the impression that there are generally more female cats than male, and that's why many people refers to cats as "she" by default. I mean - I thought cats deliver more female than male kittens in any given litter.
> 
> I don't have any basis for this statement - just an impression I've got over the years as a result of meeting many more female cats than male ones.


I suspect the percentage is about the same as in humans, 107 females to 100 males.  People kill male kittens more than females, because tom-cats cause problems for the vicinity as well as for the owners.


----------



## Chasint

velisarius said:


> The authors of that article (judging by their names)  don't seem to be native speakers, so their insistence on the female gender of cats proves nothing.
> 
> In some languages, cats are generally female and dogs are male - unless they aren't and it matters.


A someone who has owned cats and dogs, I know that other pet owners will almost always ask "Is it a he or a she?" or some similar question - they know it's only polite. People who don't like animals will almost invariably use "it".

However, people who neither hate nor love animals will often call a cat 'she' and a dog 'he'. This is not because they think all cats are female or all dogs are male. They simply assume the gender  without thought because to them, a cat looks stereotypically female and a dog stereotypically male.

I've observed this many times. It's not official. It's not an accepted usage. It's not a grammatical requirement. It just happens a lot.


----------



## Loob

Chasint said:


> It just happens a lot


I believe you, Chasint, and I see that panj - way back in the thread - had the same experience.
It really isn't *my* experience, however


----------



## Chasint

Loob said:


> I believe you, Chasint, and I see that panj - way back in the thread - had the same experience.
> It really isn't *my* experience, however


And do you have cats and/or dogs?


----------



## Loob

I grew up with a (male) cat, and more recently I've had dogs (one female, one male).

Maybe the assumption that cats are "she" and dogs are "he" is a regional thing?


----------



## velisarius

There is a belief, which may just be an old wives' tale, that female cats are better mousers than males, and cats have always been kept mainly for the purpose of catching mice and rats. Nowadays many people keep them just as pets, so the association of "female cat" with "particularly useful cat" has perhaps been lost.


----------



## Chasint

Loob said:


> I grew up with a (male) cat, and more recently I've had dogs (one female, one male).
> 
> Maybe the assumption that cats are "she" and dogs are "he" is a regional thing?


Maybe.

It occurs to me that this often happens when a young child points to the animal in question and says, "Look Mummy, dog/cat" and the mother replies, "Yes, isn't he/she lovely" The owner isn't involved in the conversation.


----------



## lingobingo

suzi br said:


> This single paper using “she” for generic cats proves nothing. My first thought would be that the author is doing what I sometimes do: choosing not to use a male-specific pronoun for a general example. However, I would certainly use “it” for animals in that context.


Exactly what I was thinking. The first time I saw an academic paper using she simply to avoid he or they, I found it really distracting (and stupid!).


----------



## Englishmypassion

In Hindi, the word for "cat" is a feminine noun (though there _is_ a masculine noun referring to male cats, it's very rarely used: only when you are being very specific about the masculine gender), so most Indians will naturally think of "cat" as referring to females and use "she" for the animal while writing in English (and feminine inflection with verbs in Hindi).


By the way, in Hindi two near-perfect synonyms of the same word can have different (grammatical) genders. For example, one of the two most common Hindi words for "bird" takes a masculine verb while the other takes a feminine verb!


----------



## duvija

In Spanish 'gato' is masculine. I had to learn that in English people refer to cats as 'she' (I can see not everybody, and not everywhere). It has nothing to do with 'the way it looks'. I don't believe Eng. speaking people who use 'she' think cats look female, but males in Spanish. Gender doesn't go by looks.


----------

