# 路外駐車場



## Pot-Bouille

Hi, 
I heard this phrase on the news the other day : 路外駐車場. 
How is it different from a 駐車場? 
Does it mean a parking lot belonging to a private building, such as a supermarket? Or does it mean an open-air parking lot, as opposed to a covered one?

Thank you!


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## Aoyama

Good question. For some reason 路外 doesn't seem to appear in the dictionaries I have, though it is a common expression.
I would go for : 





> open-air parking lot, as opposed to a covered one


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## Wishfull

edit)
路外駐車場とは・・・
道路の路面外に設置される，以下のような一般公共の用に供される（不特定多数の方が利用する）駐車場をいいます。
1. 時間貸し駐車場が該当します。 （半日貸し，一日貸しなどを含みます。
2. 商業施設などで，買物客のほかにも利用可能な駐車場が該当します。

駐車場　is not only 路外駐車場　but also, 路上駐車場（very rare in Japan), パーキングメーター, 個人の自宅の駐車場(これは通常は「車庫」と呼ばれる）, 買物客専用駐車場(買物客以外の駐車を禁じた駐車場）, etc.

I　wonder, 月極駐車場 are probably not included in 路外駐車場, because it is used by 特定の人.

BTW, 
屋外駐車場・屋内駐車場＝an open-air parking / a covered one

I think 路外駐車場　is traffic-rule-law's terminology, and I don't think it is a usual word.
I didn't know it at all until today. 


////////
Going back to your original question, 
I'm at a loss, whether a supermarket's parking space is regarded as 路外駐車場　or not.
I guess;
 if you can park it for free, it is not 路外駐車場.
If you must pay for your parking, it would be regarded as 路外駐車場.

Wishfull


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## lammn

英辞郎 has a definition for 路外駐車場:



> off-street parking facility
> off-street parking place


 
This site further explains the meaning of 路外駐車場.

According to that site, 路外駐車場 refers to off-street parking facility mainly for public use.
It includes pay-by-the-hour parking lots, and also parking lots attached to shops or hospitals.
However, pay-by-the-month parking facilities and staff-only parking lots are excluded from the definition of 路外駐車場.


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## Aoyama

My humble understanding here is that :
-路上駐車場 = "street parking" (most of the time _illegal_ in Japan, but sometimes possible, there are not many parking meters in Japan -but still, there are)
-路外駐車場 is in fact BOTH things mentioned by Pot-Bouille :


> a parking lot belonging to a private building, such as a supermarket and/ or an open-air parking lot or a covered one.


the difference between 路外 and 路上 is that no.1 is NOT on the street (public land) but on private land, whether covered or not, private land belonging to the shop, the supermarket, or rented for use by customers. It is generally _free_ if you shop (a certain amount) and get a receipt or a ticket , to use as a parking ticket.

Sometimes 路上駐車場 is linked to _*aozora*_駐車場 ...


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## almostfreebird

Actually I don't think I've ever heard or seen the word 路外駐車場,

there might have been in a text book for the paper test for a driver's license, I don't remember though.

It's a technical terminology.


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## Wishfull

Aoyama said:


> My humble understanding here is that :
> -路上駐車場 = "street parking" (most of the time _illegal_ in Japan, but sometimes possible, there are not many parking meters in Japan -but still, there are)
> -路外駐車場 is in fact BOTH things mentioned by Pot-Bouille :
> 
> the difference between 路外 and 路上 is that no.1 is NOT on the street (public land) but on private land, whether covered or not, private land belonging to the shop, the supermarket, or rented for use by customers. It is generally _free_ if you shop (a certain amount) and get a receipt or a ticket , to use as a parking ticket.
> 
> Sometimes 路上駐車場 is linked to _*aozora*_駐車場 ...



Hi, Aoyama, nice to see you,

I think you're confusing 路上駐車　and 路上駐車場.
The two words are completely different things.
What you're talking is 路上駐車 or 青空駐車. 

路上駐車場　is very very rare in Japan, only in a several cities.　It's a legal parking space.
http://www8.cao.go.jp/kisei-kaikaku/minutes/wg/2007/1012_03/item_07101203_01.pdf
You  can see the example of Hiroshima-city　in page 5.


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## almostfreebird

路外駐車場という　フレーズは　多くの日本人にとって　耳慣れない言葉だと思います。

そもそも 一般的に駐車場といえば　道路外にあるわけですから。　少なくとも日本では。

To a lot of Japanese, the phrase "路外駐車場" is an uncommon word,
because in the first place, when you say 駐車場(parking lot/parking area) it's generally located outside of road or street, at least in Japan.


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## rukiak

I also didn't know 路外駐車場.
According to some web sites, it is a law term, and used for administrative processes.

>a parking lot belonging to a private building, such as a supermarket? 
I don't understand the relation between private and supermarket.

According to those sites, 路外駐車場 means any kind of public parking lots except parking lots on the street.
A parking space at a supermarket or hostpital is one of them, and a parking space paid for by the month is not involved, because it is regarded as a private use.

In any case, we use in daily life only 駐車場、月極(の)駐車場、有料駐車場, 路上(の)駐車場 or コインパーキング to mean a parking lot.


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## Aoyama

> I think you're confusing 路上駐車　and 路上駐車場.
> The two words are completely different things.
> What you're talking is 路上駐車 or 青空駐車


You are right, but in my mind 路上駐車場 involves 路上駐車 because to have a "parking [space/lot] on the street" will result in "parking (action) on the street", whether legal (by paying a parking meter) or not legal (or "tolerated") because this parking _space_ is only available temporarily.


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## Wishfull

Hi, Aoyama, 
I understand your point.

Yet, it sounds unnatural and wired to say 路上駐車場　instead of 路上駐車.　It isn't idiomatic/natural expression in Japanese language.
If you say it, I can understand the meaning, yet I feel that it is non-native's Japanese.

路上駐車場　is very rare, which usual Japanese-natives don't know. There are only 4 in Japan. Very specific/brand-new term to my ear.

For example;
タクシー運転人　instead of タクシー運転手
3D映画活劇　instead of 3D映画
マクドナルド簡易飲食店　instead of マクドナルド
遠距離水泳　instead of 遠泳
郵便配達手　instead of 郵便配達人..... etc.
You can understand the meaning, yet it sounds strange/weird, isn't it?
路上駐車場　is as unnatural as マクドナルド簡易飲食店.
Do you agree with this logic?


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## Aoyama

> 路上駐車場　is as unnatural as マクドナルド簡易飲食店.
> And other examples ...


For Mc Do, I have never seen this "naming" (but it is almost funny). For 路上駐車場, it doesn't seem so strange, probably because apart from the actual thing, it can be understood (even if in reality this "on the street parking" is difficult to imagine).


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## Wishfull

Hi, Aoyama, nice to see you again. 
OK. My examples are too exaggerated, and not proper to convey the wired-ness.

On second thoughts, how about this explanation?
路上駐車　refers to the* act* of parking, which is* illegal.*
XX駐車場 refers to the* place*, not* act*, and it is* legal *parking place.
In our usual Japanese, when we refer to illegal parking, we talk about the illegal* act*, not place.
This is the reason why I prefer 路上駐車（act), to 路上駐車場（place).


////////
I tried to create an it-seems-to-be-natural usage of 路上駐車場.
また、家の前に車を止めやがって。いつも同じヤツが駐車している。
「おい、こら、お前！　ここはお前の路上駐車場(place)じゃないぞ」
In this context, 「路上駐車場」　is specially used with sarcasm. I myself never say in this way, but it might be possible to say.

We usually say;
「おい、こら、お前！　ここは路上駐車（act)は禁止だぞ」

In these context, 路上駐車　almost always include "illegal".

But XX駐車場　usually means "legal parking place".

So 路上駐車＋駐車場　seems very wired to our ears.
And we wonder what kind of parking space 路上駐車場　is.

Maybe you and I are talking the same thing.....
Wishfull


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## Aoyama

> 路上駐車　refers to the* act* of parking, which is* illegal.**
> XX駐車場 refers to the* place*, not* act*, and it is* legal *parking place*.**
> *


***that is what I was refering to, when I used "青空駐車".
*** *yes, of course, because of 場 ...


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