# pridie kalendas ianuarias anno Domini MMXX



## voltape

I have a diploma in latin with the date: _“pridie kalendas ianuarias anno Domini MMXX”  -  It is  December 31, 2019.  Will you please confirm it is so?    Thank you very much_


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## Cagey

A literal translation: The day before the first day of January, the year of the Lord [traditionally, 'the year of our Lord'] 2020.

It's _2020_ because this tells you the date of the first day of January that December 31, 2019 precedes. 
In classical Latin, dates are generally given in terms that count back from an important point in the calendar.  For instance
_Kalendae_ is the first day of a month, and _Ides_ is approximately the middle of the month.

'Kalend*as*' is the form used to designate a day. 
'_Ianuarias_ is an adjective and has an ending to agree with _Kalendas. _

I think they should have capitalized Kalendas and Ianuarias: _pridie Kalendas Ianuarias anno Domini MMXX” _


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## fdb

Your diploma combines the classical dating (pridie kalendas ianuarias) with the mediaeval dating to years of the Christian era (anno domini MMXX). If both formulas refer to the same event, then they ought to mean "on the 31 of December in the year 2020".


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## voltape

Thank you very much -  then I'll write 31st December 2020 -  So it was a combination of classical dates with the Christian era.


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## Agró

voltape said:


> Thank you very much -  then I'll write 31th *31st* December 2020 *2019*-.


Es el día anterior al primero de enero del 2020; por tanto, es el 31 de diciembre del *2019*.


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## voltape

Me parecía 2019.  Es un diploma de la Universidad de Rhode Island - y han anexado la traducción al inglés. en la que dice December 31, 2020 - además, por los certificados de estudio que ha presentado, se colige que es 2020 -  parece que es como dice Cagey, forma que yo no conocía, o como dice Fdb, que  han hecho una mezcla de clásico con medieval  del latín.   Gracias por la corrección del 31st - primera vez  que pongo algo así - saludos.   Maybe there will be more replies, to help clarify this matter.


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## Scholiast

saluete omnes!

For the reasons fdb has given, there is clearly an ambiguity here. But voltape must surely know the year his diploma was awarded, and can therefore decide for himself?

Σ


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## Sobakus

I don't understand how "the day before the first day of year X" can be interpreted to mean "the last day of that same year X", or what the calendar used has to do with it. Surely we aren't stuck in the looping 2020 forever? 

Here's what I've just found in a Google search, in a chronicle:






From this it's evident that the p.K.J.a.1688 in the old style corresponds to 31 December 1687 in the new style. Of course this doesn't exclude the possibility that the editors of the diploma confused the two usages.


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## fdb

Sobakus said:


> I don't understand how "the day before the first day of year X" can be interpreted to mean "the last day of that same year X", or what the calendar used has to do with it. Surely we aren't stuck in the looping 2020 forever?
> 
> Here's what I've just found in a Google search, in a chronicle:
> 
> View attachment 58663
> 
> From this it's evident that the p.K.J.a.1688 in the old style corresponds to 31 December 1687 in the new style. Of course this doesn't exclude the possibility that the editors of the diploma confused the two usages.


This is a different issue. The marginal note says that the date of this event is 31 Dec. (16)87 OLD STYLE (styli vet.), while the body of the text says it was pridie kal. ian. 1688. Both are the same date, so it is obvious that both are Old Style (Julian).


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## Sobakus

fdb said:


> This is a different issue. The marginal note says that the date of this event is 31 Dec. (16)87 OLD STYLE (styli vet.), while the body of the text says it was pridie kal. ian. 1688. Both are the same date, so it is obvious that both are Old Style (Julian).


31. Dec. 87 is the new, modern _style of writing the date_; pridie kal. ian. 1688 is the old _style of writing the same date_. The old style counts backwards from the next month, which is in the next year. This appears to be independent from the calendar used (Julian, Gregorian).


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## fdb

Sobakus said:


> 31. Dec. 87 is the new, modern _style of writing the date_;


It does say very clearly "31 Dec. 87 styli vet."

But, to return to the original question: usage triumphs over logic. "pridie kalendas ianuarias anno Domini MMXX” means December 31, 2019. I retract what I wrote in no. 3.


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## voltape

Actually, the diploma is not mine, and the graduate insisted that the year was 2020. So I just wrote 2020 - The annexed university translation says:


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## Sobakus

voltape said:


> Actually, the diploma is not mine, and the graduate insisted that the year was 2020. So I just wrote 2020 - The annexed university translation says:
> View attachment 58818


Somebody stop my intuition   


Sobakus said:


> Of course this doesn't exclude the possibility that the editors of the diploma confused the two usages.


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