# aspiring



## 82riceballs

Is there a term for "aspiring" in Chinese? We usually use it to describe people who dream to do something: "aspiring writer/actress/entrepreneur" = someone whose dream/goal is to become a writer/actress/entrepreneur. 

From a post that criticizes this kind of wording:
"I'm an Actor. Professionally. I even did extra & got the degree & everything. So please Fam/Friends, don't call me an 'aspiring actress'. This career isn't only legitimised by fame. After you pass the bar, I call you a lawyer. You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner."

Is there a similar expression in Chinese?


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## SimonTsai

'aspiring' may be close to 'ambitious'.

aspiring writer: 有野心的作家, 野心勃勃的文字創作者, or 以登上文壇巔峰為志者.

By the way, is it real that describing someone as 'aspiring' would cause offence?


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## Ghabi

82riceballs said:


> Is there a term for "aspiring" in Chinese?


One of those troublesome words. You have to rephrase it somehow, 別說我"夢想當上演員", 別說我"一心成為演員" etc.


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## raymondaliasapollyon

SimonTsai said:


> 'aspiring' may be close to 'ambitious'.
> 
> aspiring writer: 有野心的作家, 野心勃勃的文字創作者, or 以登上文壇巔峰為志者.


I'd think "以登上文壇巔峰為志者" is an overtranslation. An aspiring writer is simply a person who wants to start a career in writing, perhaps by having a novel published. He or she does not necessarily want to reach the top in the said field.

Btw, 82riceballs is saying "aspiring actor" is not an appropriate designation for someone who is already an actor; it is used to describe someone who is not an actor yet but wants to become one.


82riceballs said:


> Is there a term for "aspiring" in Chinese? We usually use it to describe people who dream to do something: "aspiring writer/actress/entrepreneur" = someone whose dream/goal is to become a writer/actress/entrepreneur


Try 有志成為 X 者, where X could stand for 作家, 演員, etc.

Alternatively, you could use 有志X者,  where X stands for a verb phrase such as 從商.
A note is in order, though.  ......者 may sound a bit stilted. You could use ......的人 instead. E.g. 有志從商的人.


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## SimonTsai

raymondaliasapollyon said:


> I'd think "以登上文壇巔峰為志者" is an over-translation.


I agree, and I am sorry for that.


raymondaliasapollyon said:


> An aspiring writer is simply a person who wants to start a career in writing.


I would doubt. To me, if you are an aspiring writer, you are an inconspicuous writer whose ambition is to achieve heights. (definition)


Ghabi said:


> You have to rephrase it somehow, 別說我"夢想當上演員".


This suggestion may be the most helpful.

Below is my try:
_I'm an Actor. Professionally._
我是一位專業的演員。
_I even did extra & got the degree & everything._
我做了額外的付出，取得資歷；我盡了一切的努力。
_So please Fam/Friends, don't call me an 'aspiring actress'._
所以，我的家人，或者朋友，請你們不要說我是一位夢想在演藝圈有成就、受人矚目的演員。
_This career isn't only legitimised by fame._
這行不是單靠名氣。
_After you pass the bar, I call you a lawyer._
你若是通過司法考試，我便稱你為律師。
_You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner._
在成為合夥人前，你不會只是夢想。​


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## raymondaliasapollyon

SimonTsai said:


> I would doubt. To me, if you are an aspiring writer, you are an inconspicuous writer whose ambition is to achieve heights. (definition)



Being a successful writer is still a long way off reaching the top in the field.


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## Ghabi

SimonTsai said:


> _I even did extra & got the degree & everything._
> 我做了額外的付出，取得資歷；我盡了一切的努力。


extra是跑龍套的意思。


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## raymondaliasapollyon

"以登上文壇巔峰為志者" means, literally, person(s) who aspire to reach the top in the writing business.
But the English word _aspiring _does not convey such a strong meaning. Even the Longman Dictionary, which, while incorporating the words " hoping to be successful," does not equate being successful with being the top in the field.

Consider Merriam-Webster's definition:

an _aspiring_ actor [=a person who wants to be an actor]

Aspire - Definition for English-Language Learners from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary


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## 82riceballs

To clear up some confusion, the reason why some actors/writers don't like the term "aspiring" is because it is unfairly used against them to mean "not yet famous". When we say "aspiring actors/writers", we're basically indirectly saying that they're "actors/writers who aren't yet famous", when fame may or may not be the goal and many of them already act/write professionally.

The other confusing aspect of the word "aspiring" is that it means "trying to be". E.g. someone who "aspires" to be a doctor wants to be a doctor; an "aspiring doctor" is not a doctor yet. This is why when we say "aspiring actor/writer", it also has the connotation that these people are not proper actors/writers yet.

So basically we're applying a double standard
----------------------------------------------------
Thanks for all your explanations and translations!!

I think depending on which connotation of "aspiring", a lot of your translations apply.

In this specific quote, I slightly modified SimonTsai's translation so it reflects both meanings in English:

don't call me an 'aspiring actress'.
請你們不要說我是一位 {夢想在演藝圈有成就、受人矚目的演員 | 夢想從事演藝工作的人}
This career isn't only legitimised by fame.
演員不等於明星，不是出名了才算演員。
After you pass the bar, I call you a lawyer.
你若是通過司法考試，我便稱你為律師。
You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner.
在成為合夥人前，你不會只是夢想。


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## SuperXW

82riceballs said:


> You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner.
> 在成為合夥人前，你不會只是夢想。


This one doesn't sound right.
I don't understand the Chinese translation at all, and I am also confused by the English one.


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## Skatinginbc

通過資格考試, 就是律師, 而不是僅僅“心懷抱負”直到成為事務所的合夥人.


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## SuperXW

82riceballs said:


> After you pass the bar, I call you a lawyer. You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner.


明白了，我的翻译：
只要你通過考試，我就會叫你律師，不會因為你還沒成為合夥人，就只叫你“準律師/未來的律師”。


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## hx1997

按 SuperXW 那样说好懂些。


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## raymondaliasapollyon

SuperXW said:


> 明白了，我的翻译：
> 只要你通過考試，我就會叫你律師，不會因為你還沒成為合夥人，就只叫你“準律師/未來的律師”。


要正确理解那句英文就得在正确的位置断句：

You're not [just 'aspiring' until you become partner].
= It is not the case [that you are just an aspiring lawyer until you become a partner of a law firm].
并不是说在成为律师事务所的合伙人之前，你只是个有志从事律师业的人。

大部分的人看到 until 就习惯在中间断句，所以看不懂原句。


82riceballs said:


> don't call me an 'aspiring actress'.
> 請你們不要說我是一位 {夢想在演藝圈有成就、受人矚目的演員 | 夢想從事演藝工作的人}



夢想從事演藝工作的人 does not mean an aspiring actor/actress. It could refer to an aspiring singer.

The expression 夢想從事演藝工作的人, i.e. someone who aspires to a career in showbiz,  has broad reference.


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## SimonTsai

82riceballs said:


> To clear up some confusion, the reason why some actors/writers don't like the term "aspiring" is because it is unfairly used against them to mean "not yet famous". When we say "aspiring actors/writers", we're basically indirectly saying that they're "actors/writers who aren't yet famous", when *[1]* fame may or may not be the goal and *[2]* many of them already act/write professionally.
> 
> The other confusing aspect of the word "aspiring" is that it means "trying to be". E.g. someone who "aspires" to be a doctor wants to be a doctor; an "aspiring doctor" is not a doctor yet. This is why when we say "aspiring actor/writer", it also has the connotation that these people are not proper actors/writers yet.
> 
> So basically we're applying a double standard


Thank you for the clarification.


Ghabi said:


> extra是跑龍套的意思。


Thank you. I failed to think of that.


82riceballs said:


> This career isn't only legitimised by fame.
> 演員不等於明星，不是出名了才算演員。


This is far more accurate than my original.


82riceballs said:


> You're not just 'aspiring' until you become partner.
> 在成為合夥人前，你不會只是夢想。


While some natives find the translation odd, I still think that in this context, it is completely natural (albeit less colloquial).


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## Steven8

This career isn't only legitimised by fame.
演員不等於明星，不是出名了才算演員

这句话翻译的真好！


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> While some natives find the translation odd, I still think that in this context, it is completely natural (albeit less colloquial).


I bet many natives would have a hard time...
歧义太多了，中英文用法习惯毕竟不同：
a. 梦想后面没有宾语。到底梦想什么？通过考试？成为律师？还是成为合伙人？还是说“梦想”是个名词？
b. “在成为合伙人前”，包含了“通过司法考试前”的时间，也就是现在。现在"不会只是梦想"吗？
c. “废话，任何时候，我都不会只是梦想，我会去努力实践。”


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## brofeelgood

When you're an 'aspiring actor', only two conditions matter.
1) You want to be an actor.
2) You're not one yet, and you're most likely working your way to become one.

An aspiring actor = 一個立了志要成為演員、並且正在為此目標努力的人。


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## raymondaliasapollyon

SuperXW said:


> I bet many natives would have a hard time...
> 歧义太多了，中英文用法习惯毕竟不同：
> a. 梦想后面没有宾语。到底梦想什么？通过考试？成为律师？还是成为合伙人？还是说“梦想”是个名词？
> b. “在成为合伙人前”，包含了“通过司法考试前”的时间，也就是现在。现在"不会只是梦想"吗？
> c. “废话，任何时候，我都不会只是梦想，我会去努力实践。”



Longman 有以下例句，斷句的位置跟 "You are not just aspiring until you become partner" 一樣：

Eat the salmon because it won’t keep till tomorrow.
= Eat the salmon because it will not [keep till tomorrow].
= Eat the salmon because it is not the case that it will keep till tomorrow.

把魚吃了，因為不能放到明天。（今天就得吃完，不然會餿掉。）


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## brofeelgood

raymondaliasapollyon said:


> "You are not just aspiring until you become partner"


I disagree with that statement. There's no conflict between being a full-fledged lawyer and an aspiring partner. When you pass the bar exam, you transition from being an 'aspiring' lawyer to a full-fledged one. If you want to become a partner, you're an 'aspiring' partner until you get invited to become an actual one.


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## retrogradedwithwind

瀑布汗……我就是那个一直以为aspiring 是下面这个意思的人。。。

When we say "aspiring actors/writers", we're basically indirectly saying that they're "actors/writers who aren't yet famous", when fame may or may not be the goal and many of them already act/write professionally.

原来aspiring 还有另外一个意思……



aspiring actor
志在演戏的人，（非常）想当演员的人

某些语境下，我觉得把aspiring后面的词动词化，就可以很好的表达aspiring 的意思了。

I am an aspiring actor.
我非常想演戏。


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## brofeelgood

Erm... no.

'aspiring actors or writers' ≠ 'actors or writers who aren't famous yet'

Sure, being famous (and commercially successful) is the end goal for most, if not all, actors and writers, but let's not forget there're lots of accomplished actors and writers out there that have worked in their respective industries for ages and are still not widely known and commercially successful.

You can aspire to be (1) an actor, (2) a good actor or even (3) a famous actor. They're not exactly the same to me.


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## retrogradedwithwind

嗯嗯，我现在知道了。谢谢了。


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