# Ball, bulb, and other spherical objects



## ThomasK

In Dutch we use the same root to refer to spherical objects such as balls and bulbs (_ballen, bollen_). We even use _bol _as an adjective, for 'convex' things' (a convex mirror, for example), and bolvormig for ball-shaped things. 

What is your word for 'ball' and can you link other words referring to spherical objects with it, or see some semantic evolution starting from that word (_bol _has come to refer to a _kaasbol_, 'cheese ball')?


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## ThomasK

I am aware of a thread on this word/ topic, and I have selected a major part of the answers below. The main thing is: *what is the word for 'ball' (in all shapes) and 'bulb'?* And do you see other words related with them ? _(I do admit that I am interested in words linked to that 'ball' root (etymologically) and in linguistic links between spherical objects in your language, but that is less important) _

 Some answers regarding _ball _copied from that thread: feel free to comment on those !


> Turkish - T*op, Erkan*
> Spanish - *Pelota, bola
> *French - *balle, ballon, *but I imagine _*boule *_is also related...
> Russian - *Мяч / Myach
> *Czech: *míč*
> Romanian- *minge *(the Slavic root ?)
> Slovak: *lopta* (from Hungarian)
> Hungarian: *labda*  --- or is  *Gömb *?
> In Irish :  *liathróid*
> Hebrew: *כדור* (_kadur_)
> Cantonese > Hindi/Urdu/Gujarati too (> Portuguese) - *Cha/ Tchai *(?)


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## Radioh

ThomasK said:


> ...The main thing is: *what is the word for 'ball' (in all shapes) and 'bulb'?* And do you see other words related with them ? _(I do admit that I am interested in words linked to that 'ball' root (etymologically) and in linguistic links between spherical objects in your language, but that is less important) _...


Ball = bóng; bulb = bóng đèn (can be used for every kind of light, not necessarily ball-shaped ones.)


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## ThomasK

And any verbs or anything, R? (If there are verbs in Vietnamese)


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## Radioh

Sorry to have kept you waiting, Mr Thomas. After reading your posts once again, I think I have not understood your questions completely. You want words/verbs related to ball and bulb but do not have the ball root ?


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## ThomasK

Well, thanks a lot, Radioh, and don't worry. You might just have the same problem as a lot of others, as I am getting no replies. (I generally want too much, I am afraid.)

But these were my questions: 
(1) do you have *other words with the same root as 'ball' *in your language? (Like in your case: other_ b-ng _words referring to other spherical objects - like _boule _and _ball, ballon _in French,  _bullet _in English - or perhaps verbs, such as _rollebollen _in Dutch, i.e., 'roll like a ball')
(2) *what other words refer to spherical objects*? And: as for those words, do you see some linguistic link between them? (Like _globe _in Dutch/ English,,  ...)

Any answers welcome, as partial as they may be ! Thanks in advance...


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## Radioh

Thanks, Mr Thomas. Everything's clear now 


ThomasK said:


> ...But these were my questions:
> (1) do you have *other words with the same root as 'ball' *in your language? (Like in your case: other_ b-ng _words referring to other spherical objects - like _boule _and _ball, ballon _in French,  _bullet _in English - or perhaps verbs, such as _rollebollen _in Dutch, i.e., 'roll like a ball')


Yes, we have, but few. Right now I can think of only one word, that is, bong bóng(balloon).
(bóng also means 'shadow' in English) 


> (2) *what other words refer to spherical objects*? And: as for those words, do you see some linguistic link between them? (Like _globe _in Dutch/ English,,  ...)


'cầu' is also used to refer to spherical things. I'm no linguist, so that's all I can help. 
R.


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## Maroseika

Russian word for ball is *мяч  *[mʲæʨ] < cмятый (rumpled) < мягкий (soft), i.e. originally something like a clot of rumpled rag. Association with the regular round shape is probably very late, since 18 century.
Another Russian word is *шар *[ʂar] - globe. Its origin is obscure, probably loaned from Turcic.

Мяч is not productive in the word-formative sense, but we have adjectives formed from шар: шаровой, шариковый, like in шариковая ручка - ballpoint pen.

Besides, there is *бульба *[bul'ba] - potato, but this is late loan from German _Bolle _thru Polish. In the original sense of potato this word is used rarely, but it is often used in the figuratibe meaning of a ball-shaped outgrowth or knop on the body.


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## vianie

> Romanian - minge (the Slavic root ?)


Yes, see Wiktionary.


> Slovak: lopta (from Hungarian)
> 
> Hungarian: labda --- or is Gömb ?


The Hungarian _labda_ meaning "ball" has its origin in the Proto-Slavic _lopъta,_ see Wiktionary.

I could not find the origin of g_ömb _for now, but Slovak _gombík_ meaning "knob" has apparently the same etymology. And if the hypotesis of the extinct Old English _cobs_ meaning "knob" is right, then the word has apparently IE roots.


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## Maroseika

vianie said:


> The Hungarian _labda_ meaning "ball" has its origin in the Proto-Slavic _lopъta,_ see Wiktionary.



Interestingly, this Proto-Slavic *_lopъta_ meant something opposite to the notion of  sphericity - a spade, cognate of lapa - a paw or palm. How this might happen?


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## vianie

In terms of mathematics, ball is called _guľa_ in Slovak, _koule_ in Czech, _kula_ in Polish, _куля_ in Ukrainian and Belarusian, _kuula_ in Finnish. Russian _птица_ seems to have slightly different meaning. But they all should come from Proto-Slavic _golva_.





Maroseika said:


> Besides, there is бульба [bul'ba] - potato, but this is late loan from German _Bolle _thru Polish. In the original sense of potato this word is used rarely, but it is often used in the figuratibe meaning of a ball-shaped outgrowth or knop on the body.


They are called _bulva_ in Czech or _buľva_ in Slovak, but they seem to be linked rather with the Latin _bulbus_.


Maroseika said:


> Interestingly, this Proto-Slavic *_lopъta_ meant something opposite to the notion of  sphericity - a spade, cognate of lapa - a paw or palm. How this might happen?


You have surely mixed that up with _lopata_. No wonder, they are too similar.


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## Maroseika

vianie said:


> Russian _птица_ seems to have slightly different meaning. But they all should come from Proto-Slavic _golva_.


I think you meant Russian *гуля *- bulb. Гуля also means pigeon (Russian голубь), but this is another word of the onomatopoetic origin (from calling a pigeon гуль-гуль).



> They are called _bulva_ in Czech or _buľva_ in Slovak, but they seem to be linked rather with the Latin _bulbus_.


Version of originating Slavic words from German is Max Vasmer's. More contemporary Ukranian Etymological Dictionary mentiones Latin version first and German - third, with the Greek one in between, from βολβός - leek.
In this case it is also a cognate of Lat. vulva.
By the way there are some more cognates of *bulb *in Russian:
*булава *- mace with a bulb on one end;
*булавка *(dim. from булава) - pin;
*булдырь *- bump, limp;
*булыга, булыжник* - cobble-stone;
*булка *- loaf (originally - boulder).



> You have surely mixed that up with _lopata_. No wonder, they are too similar.



I based on the Vasmer's dictionary, where* lopata *is deduced from the same Proto-Slavic *lopъta, as Serbian lopta. However contemporary Etymological Dictionary of Slavic Languages  disregards this version. As for the Proto-Slavic *lopъta, there is at least one derivate in Russian:
*лапта *- a ball game (originally - name of the ball for this game).


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## vianie

Maroseika said:


> I think you meant Russian *гуля *- bulb. Гуля also means pigeon (Russian голубь), but this is another word of the onomatopoetic origin (from calling a pigeon гуль-гуль).


 Sure I meant that, I knew about *гуля*, I just didn't keep line with it and finished up with those girls.


> Ukranian Etymological Dictionary
> 
> Etymological Dictionary of Slavic Languages


Thanks for the links, but the second one doesn't work for me.


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## Maroseika

vianie said:


> Sure I meant that, I knew about *гуля*, I just didn't keep line with it and finished up with those girls.


By the way, those girls are there because their hairdo is also called гуля, гулька - that thick knot or wisp of hair.



> Thanks for the links, but the second one doesn't work for me.


That's strange, because for me it still works. However you can open initial page of the dictionary. Its navigation is not very convinient, so you may go directly to p. 42 of vol. 16 (choose volume number from the lower row).


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

top: ball
top: cannon
topak: lump, chunk
toparlak: round, sphere
topuk: heel
topal: cripple, lame
toplamak: to sum up, to tidy, to gather, etc...
toplam: sum
toplama: addition
toparlamak: to tidy
toplanmak: to gather together
toplu: collective, tidied up
topaç: spintop
toplum: community, society
...and lots of more...
*top : all, completely; complex, collection
*top: round thing
*Top-: to go through, to pierce
*topra-k (also torpak): earth, soil

words that are semantically related with "top" (related with community, collective, gathering, being looked after (tidiness), etc) and are also similar the word "ball".

*balıq : city, settlement, place
*bialɨk : city, fortress
*bālɨk : fish
*bol : abundant, full

word that is semantically related with the word "ball" and is also similar.
*boĺ : empty, free

(I have listed the last 5 words just for fun. I can not know if they are related with the word "ball" and "polis" or not.


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## ThomasK

Radioh said:


> Yes, we have, but few. Right now I can think of only one word, that is, bong bóng(balloon).
> (bóng also means 'shadow' in English)
> 
> 'cầu' is also used to refer to spherical things. I'm no linguist, so that's all I can help.
> R.



Would you think there is a link with shadow, Radioh, or is reduplication a word-formation mechanism in Vietnamese? (_bong bóng _seems to consist of the word _bong _repeated, but I might be mistaken)

'cầu' : thanks for the hint, but can you just give me words based on that root?


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## arielipi

Hebrew:
ball is כדור kadur, and though people will understand you mean bulb if you use ball, its not inherent in hebrew; people would understand that because in english its used that way.
bulb - מנורה menora, נורה nura, נורית nurit.
we use כדור and its variants to describe ball-shaped objects, but we have other words for curved planes.


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## Gavril

Old English:

*þoþor* "sphere", unknown origin

*clufu* meant "bulb/tuber of a plant", but I don't know if it could refer to any bulb-shaped object. 
_clufu_ is related to the verb _cleofian_ "cleave", and is the ancestor of the word *clove *as in "clove of garlic" (the name of the spice called "clove" is unrelated, and comes from French _clou _"nail").


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## ThomasK

arielipi said:


> Hebrew:
> ball is כדור kadur, and though people will understand you mean bulb if you use ball, its not inherent in hebrew; people would understand that because in english its used that way.
> bulb - מנורה menora, נורה nura, נורית nurit.
> we use כדור and its variants to describe ball-shaped objects, but we have other words for curved planes.


_*Menora*_: am I mistaken if I think it also refers to a seven-armed candelabra? Is there a link ? 

_*Clufu*_: I thought for a second that it might perhaps be related with 'kloot', and that both would have to do with 'cleave', but my etymo-dictionary does not confirm that guess. 

The Turkish *top *is quite interesting to me: the link between roundness and completeness is a little surprising to me, but I could find links between the two in Dutch (though not that much).


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## arielipi

ThomasK said:


> _*Menora*_: am I mistaken if I think it also refers to a seven-armed candelabra? Is there a link ?


I checked it now in wikimilon, menora is one of two things: 1. light fixture. 2. a tool with several places [positions] for candles or other lighting/burning material, and its shape is that of a candelabra.
it is also used as one would use lamp.


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## ThomasK

Could it be because lamps used to be pearshaped (almost round) ???


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Could it be because lamps used to be pearshaped (almost round) ???



menorah (n.) 1886, from Hebrew menorah "candlestick," from Semitic stem n-w-r "to give light, shine" (compare Arabic nar "fire," manarah "candlestick, lighthouse, tower of a mosque," see minaret).


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> ...What is your word for 'ball' and can you link other words referring to spherical objects with it, or see some semantic evolution starting from that word (_bol _has come to refer to a _kaasbol_, 'cheese ball')?



Hungarian 
golyó [1629] small and hard >  Italian coglione (testicles) ??
labda [1405] - big and soft > Slavic
balls - only golyók (small and hard)  not labdák
galacsin [1560] small soft and kneaded  >??? 
teke [1566] - big, hard and you roll it.


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## ThomasK

Very interesting information, Maroseika, thanks. But then the link with a 'ball' is not lear at all, isn't it? 

Encolpius: are Hungarians that ball-minded? (But none of those gives rise to other kinds of words based on one of those roots, or ... ? Thanks !)


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## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> .. Encolpius: are Hungarians that ball-minded? (But none of those gives rise to other kinds of words based on one of those roots, or ... ? Thanks !)



We might be... 
I have forgotten 
gömb [1476] - small or big, hard and hollow > ety ? 
I can remember derivates only from that - gomb (button), gombolyag [small, made up of fibres], gümő (tubercle), gombóc (dumbling), gömbölyű (round)


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Some answers regarding _ball _copied from that thread: feel free to comment on those !


I must point out that in Russian the word *мяч* refers excusively to a ball that is used in games like football, tennis, baseball etc. Otherwise it's *шар* "shar".


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## ThomasK

I suppose that confirms what Maroseika wrote here: 





Maroseika said:


> Russian word for ball is *мяч  *[mʲæʨ] < cмятый (rumpled) < мягкий (soft), i.e. originally something like a clot of rumpled rag. *Association with the regular round shape is probably very late, since 18 century.  --- *Another Russian word is *шар *[ʂar] - globe. Its origin is obscure, probably loaned from Turcic.
> 
> Мяч is not productive in the word-formative sense, but we have adjectives formed from шар: шаровой, шариковый, like in шариковая ручка - ballpoint pen.


 I would like to know though what these adjectives mean and what one associates with the globe word *шар.* The earth, I suppose, but more ? in what compounds can you use them?


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> I suppose that confirms what Maroseika wrote here:  I would like to know though what these adjectives mean and what one associates with the globe word *шар.* The earth, I suppose, but more ? in what compounds can you use them?


Russian isn't as rich in _compound words_ as Germanic languages. There are, however, phrases like "шаровая молния" (ball (adj. f) lightning), "бильярдный шар" (billard/pool (adj.) ball), "шариковый подшипник" (little-ball (adj. m.) bearing - "a ball bearing"), земной шар (earthly ball - "the terrestrial globe") etc.
Шар is also a correct geometrical term for a spheroid (not to be mixed with a sphere, сфера).


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## ThomasK

Interesting notes, thanks. But could you also explain the adjectives mentioned above by Maroseika?


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## arielipi

What do you mean by lear thomas?


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Very interesting information, Maroseika, thanks. But then the link with a 'ball' is not lear at all, isn't it?


I'm afraid your question is not clear for me.


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Interesting notes, thanks. But could you also explain the adjectives mentioned above by Maroseika?


Шаровый/шаровой is a relative adjective referring to "balls/globes", шариковый - to "little balls/globes" (sg. шарик). Also there is "шарообразный" ("ball/globe-shaped").


Maroseika said:


> Another Russian word is *шар *[ʂar] - globe. Its origin is obscure, probably loaned from Turcic.


Hardly. Is there something even remotely close in any Turkic language?
I met two hypotheses: from Old Russian/Church Slavonic "шаръ" (colour) through "coloured spot" (mentioned by Vasmer, who a.f.a.i.r. found it unlikely), and from the same source through coloured billard balls (seems even less likely, considering that "shar" meaning "sphere" can be found by early 1700s already).
Strange that no one mentions Moksha "shary" (wheel; rolling; adj. wheel-like), "sharks" (turnabout, bend) and other words with the same root, ultimately of Iranian (Sarmathian or similar) origin.


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## ancalimon

Awwal12 said:


> Hardly. Is there something even remotely close in any Turkic language?
> I met two hypotheses: from Old Russian/Church Slavonic "шаръ" (colour) through "coloured spot" (mentioned by Vasmer, who a.f.a.i.r. found it unlikely), and from the same source through coloured billard balls (seems even less likely, considering that "shar" meaning "sphere" can be found by early 1700s already).
> Strange that no one mentions Moksha "shary" (wheel; rolling; adj. wheel-like), "sharks" (turnabout, bend) and other words with the same root, ultimately of Iranian (Sarmathian or similar) origin.



In my opinion, ProtoTurkic *čar meaning whetstone is Turkic in origin and probably a cognate was loaned into Sanskrit in the form of *čarɨk, čarx* meaning "cogwheel".

It's clearly also related with teker (wheel... tekre in Sanskrit), çark (cogwheel, figuratively "mind, consciousness"), Tengri-Tenri-Tanrı (The God ~ the singularity that contains universe, surrounding), teğet (touch,tangent...  from Latin Tangere from PIE *tag.. the relation is that if a point on the wheel pass though the same point again while its turning, it's called "teğet" in Turkic. "*teg" means to touch), çevir (to turn, to twist), çevre (surrounding, nature), çırp (to stir), çorba (soup, stirred up) and many other words. The problem is that I do not know the ultimate primordial word out of which all of these meanings came from. We probably would need to do a research on tamgas (~pictograms) and old runes to have an idea.

Maybe a root similar to "çæ" or "dæ"  (which could also be related with "dön" meaning "to spin, to turn" and also "dür" meaning "to roll" and also "sür" meaning "to drive")


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## arielipi

In hebrew ball is also used as globe.


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## apmoy70

In Greek ball is *«σφαίρα»* ['sfera] (fem.) --> _sphere, ball, globe, bullet (firearm projectile)_ < Classical fem. noun *«σφαῖρα» spʰaîra* --> _sphere, ball, globe, pill_ with possible relation to the Classical v. *«σπαίρω» spaírō* --> _to sprawl, flounder, gasp, pant, quiver_ (PIE *TsperH-, _to kick with the heel_ cf Skt. स्फुरति (sphurati), _to palpilate, push with the foot, rebound_; Hitt. išparr-, _to trample_; Lat. spernere, _to despise, reject, separate_).
In the vernacular though we prefer the Italian loanword *«μπάλα» *['bala] (fem.) < It. _balla_ (used excusively to describe the spherical/ovoid object in sports).


The light bulb in the vernacular is *«γλόμπος» *['ɣlombos] (masc.) < It. _globo_. Its formal name is *«λυχνία»* [li'xni.a] (fem.) < Koine fem. noun *«λυχνίᾱ/λυχνέᾱ/λυχνείᾱ lŭkʰníā/lŭkʰnéā/lŭkʰneíā* --> _lamp_ < Classical masc. noun *«λύχνος» lúkʰnŏs* --> _(portable) light lamp_ (PIE *leuk-sn-eh₂-, _moon, stars_ cf Lat. luna > It./Sp. luna, Fr. lune, Por. lua, Rom. lună, Ger. Laune; Proto-Slavic *luna > OCS лоуна, Rus./Ukr./Blr./Blg. луна, Cz./Slk./Slo. luna, Pol. łuna).


The spherical glass/steel/plastic toy played by kids (marble/marbles) is *«βώλος/βώλοι»* ['volos] (masc. nom. sing.)/['voli] (masc. nom. pl.) < Classical masc. noun *«βῶλος» bôlŏs* --> _lump, clod_ (with obscure etymology).


*«Βoλβός»* [vol'vos] (masc.) is the _geophyte_ (e.g onion, Muscari comosum, tulip, amaryllis etc.). The word is Attic -*«βολβός» bŏlbós* (masc.)- and onomatopoeic: it's expressive, sound-symbolic, reminiscent of words for round, globular objects, like Lat. bulla, Lith. burbulas, Gr. «μπουρμπουλήθρα» [burbu'liθra], _water bubble_.


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