# Avestan "bawra" = beaver or otter?



## Treaty

Hi,

In Avestan (Aban yasht 30:129) for describing Anahiti, it says she wore a garment made of _bawra_ fur. This word appears in Menog-i-khrad (also as Pahl. water _baprak_) as a sacred animal killing of whom is a great sin. Originally meaning brown, _Bawra_ is a root-cognate of beaver, as it is translated as beaver in English and Persian Avestas.Two problems are here:

First, it seems beaver had never lived in (greater Iran). Its habitat is more in Northern steps. Therefore, such a command "not to kill it" is out f place.
Second, Iranians were familiar with beaver's castoreum, calling it in NPers _gond-e-bidester_. This indicates that they have probably seen the animal.

Considering the Zoroasterian zoology was not a big deal, can the original _bawra_ in Avesta mean "otter" (considering its "brown" skin is more valuable)? And later Iranian have confused it when seeing beavers (with its so-called medical castoreum)?


----------



## fdb

_baβra-_ (old transliteration _bawra-_) is assumed to mean  “beaver” mainly on the basis of the IE (specifically: Germanic)  etymology. The textual attestations do not really make it clear what  animal it is.



Treaty said:


> it seems beaver had never lived in (greater Iran). Its habitat is more in Northern steps. Therefore, such a command "not to kill it" is out f place.




We do not actually know when and where the Avestan texts where composed, but most scholars assume that it was very much to the north of “greater Iran”.


----------



## Treaty

I wondered about this, because I'd read a web article that used this debate (beaver's habitat, originally by Ghirshmann) for understanding Avestan geography.


----------



## Ben Jamin

Treaty said:


> First, it seems beaver had never lived in (greater Iran). Its habitat is more in Northern steps.



How can beavers live in the steppes when it needs plenty of flowing water, mostly in small rivers and streams? Aren't the steppes rather poorly equipped with running water?


----------



## Dhira Simha

I have so far drafted it in my dictionary as follows:


71бо́брbóbrbabhruबभ्रुbobrbeaverdeep-brown, reddish-brown, tawny; a reddish-brown animalA generally accepted common I.E. word.  Compare  AV bawri, bawra, O.H.G bibar, GER biber, SW bäver,  LAT fiver  (Vasmer, 1,180-181). It is unclear whether this name derives from its  red-brown colour, or the red-brown colour came to be called so after  this animal (see бур bur). In SA  the primarily meaning is ‘deep-brown,  reddish-brown, tawny’ while the meaning ‘a reddish-brown animal’ appears  secondary. Traditionally, it is also reconstructed as *bhe-bhru-   ‘brown’. Derksen (2008, 34) reluctantly supports this view but  Trubačev  (1974, 146), while admitting the antiquity of this word, prefers not to   derive it directly from the brown colour. Instead he cautiously  mentioned  an attempt to explain its semantics through SA bharv भर्व्  ‘to chew, devour, eat; to injure’ which is rather plausible.   However,  native grammarians tended to connect bharv भर्व् to the root  bhṛ भृ ‘to  bear, carry’.   Its  reduplicated derivative  babhri बभ्रि ‘bearing,  carrying’  is indeed stinkingly similar and appears  particularly  suitable to explain the Avestan bawri, bawra. It should also be kept in  mind that  beavers  are best known for their natural habit  to construct  huge nests and river dams. They spend most of their active life  carrying large quantities of wood. Therefore,  the meaning ‘brown‘ could   be a secondary derivative. Despite  the semantic  difficulties his word is a good example of the variation of vowels from  /o/ in RU and some other Slavonic languages to /a/ in SA and SRB, /e/  in LT and LV, /i/ in UA.  O.RU бебръ, бобръ; UA бiбр; бе́бер, BG бъ́бър,  бо́бър, бе́бер; SRB да̏бар; SLO bóbǝr, bébǝr, brébǝr; CZ bobr, PL  bóbr, U.LU bobr, bě́br; L.LU bober, bobεr; O.PR bebrus; LT bebras,  bebrùs; LV bebrs. GILF, 47, VAS; ILE; CHO 5


----------



## Treaty

Ben Jamin said:


> How can beavers live in the steppes when it needs plenty of flowing water, mostly in small rivers and streams? Aren't the steppes rather poorly equipped with running water?



Yes they need water and wood (and cool weather). But, in past much of current steppes in Kazakh-Russian border were more vegetated and taiga-like. So their habitat was much vaster than what we have now.


----------



## LilianaB

She could have bought the garment  -- why do you think the animal was endemic to the region (I mean traded it). It will be a beaver, not an otter -- both animals need a lot of water, and a colder climate. She could have just gotten it from somewhere else.  Otter comes from _wodr*_ in PIE. Was it a sacred animal in the Zoroastrian religion?

Added: I think dogs were sacred in Zoroastrianism, and any "gentle animal", so in this sense all animals of a more gentle nature were sacred. Killing with joy was also considered something forbidden. The animals did not even have to live in the region to be considered sacred -- maybe all fury animals were considered sacred, or even all animals. Animal sacrifice was forbidden.


----------



## Treaty

LilianaB said:


> She could have bought the garment  -- why do you think the animal was endemic to the region (I mean traded it). It will be a beaver, not an otter -- both animals need a lot of water, and a colder climate. She could have just gotten it from somewhere else.  Otter comes from _wodra*_ in PIE. Was it a sacred animal in the Zoroastrian religion?
> 
> Added: I think dogs were sacred in Zoroastrianism, and any "gentle animal", so in this sense all animals of a more gentle nature were sacred. Killing with joy was also considered something forbidden. The animals did not even have to live in the region to be considered sacred -- maybe all fury animals were considered sacred, or even all animals. Animal sacrifice was forbidden.



I cannot imagine the goddess of water buying the fur of an animal of her own territory. 
In Avesta all carnivorous mammals not belonging to cat and bear families were considered dogs (still in Persian we say "water-dog" for beaver). Therefore both otter and beaver were sacred. 
In Vendidad 14:1, it seems the word _udra_ (as you said PIE wodra) is translated as otter. 
Maybe because Anahita was a symbol of water (coldness) it was associated with beaver that is an aquatic animal from a cold habitat.


----------



## Treaty

Just another idea, can _bawra_ be related to _babr_ (and Pahlavi _bopar_ = tiger)? Its skin is also beautiful. Besides tigers were endemic to Iran (near Caspian sea).


----------



## LilianaB

Hi. I did not realize she was a goddess -- I thought she was a queen. They are both water animals -- and otter is definitely considered a dog in many languages, as well, or at least the male is called  a dog, even in English. Yes, _udra_ is the word (Lithunaian udra, Polish Wydra) Why were you concerned that a beaver should really be an otter to fit the myhtology -- they are both gentle water animals, and thus most likely considered sacred. If an otter can live in Iran, or could in the past, beaver could live there as well -- they require similar conditions, except beavers like trees -- to chew on. There are also sea otters, but their name would be also more similar to _udra_ (just modified). The word _water_ apparently comes wrom _otter_.

Going back to your tiger theory -- bars is a tiger in Tatar -- Aq bars is a snow leopard. I am not sure from which word these two are derived.


----------



## Treaty

Apologies: beaver is not carnivorous though it's considered a dog.


----------



## Skatinginbc

Hi, Liliana, Tatar _bars_ seems to derive from or at least be related to Old Turkic _jolbars_ < Proto-Turkic *_jolbars_ "panther, leopard, tiger".
Regarding Avestan bawra: Since Iranian and Indo-Aryan are closely related, why don't we assume that the meaning of Iranian bawra would be closer to Sanskrit बभ्रु bábru "mongoose; ichneumon"?


----------



## Wolverine9

Treaty said:


> Just another idea, can _bawra_ be related to _babr_ (and Pahlavi _bopar_ = tiger)? Its skin is also beautiful. Besides tigers were endemic to Iran (near Caspian sea).



I think Avestan _baβra- _is cognate to Sanskrit _babhru-_ and the English _brown_ and _beaver_.  So, it would be unrelated to _babr _in my opinion.  The latter might be a possible cognate to the Sanskrit _vyaaghra_- "tiger".  But this could be an outdated etymology.


----------



## Wolverine9

LilianaB said:


> The word _water_ apparently comes wrom _otter_.



No, they're actually cognates.  They're both derived from a PIE root that meant _water_.


----------



## LilianaB

Hi, yes -- that must have been what I meant. I think they come from *wodr.


----------



## fdb

Treaty said:


> In Vendidad 14:1, it seems the word _udra_ (as you said PIE wodra) is translated as otter.



You are right. Vendidad mentions both _baβra-_  and _udra-_ as two different animals, so presumably “beaver” and “otter”. And the latter does indeed belong to the same root as “water” etc.


----------



## LilianaB

The animals themselves don't belong to the same families although they both love water -- beavers are rodents (the biggest rodents, or some of the biggest) -- otters are not.  And, I think you meant the former, fdb, not the latter.


----------



## ancalimon

Is there a remote possibility that this bawra could be related with buğra which means "camel" and also "spirit horse" in Turkic?


----------



## Treaty

ancalimon said:


> Is there a remote possibility that this bawra could be related with buğra which means "camel" and also "spirit horse" in Turkic?


I don't even remotely think so. Apart from linguistic difference, Avestan _bawra _is related to water while camel and horse are not.

About tiger (_babr_), there are two interesting points: the only place where it lived in Iran was around Caspian sea. However, a word for it in Mazeruni dialect (south of Caspian) is "red lion" (_sorxe shir_). This suggests _babr _was probably first used to indicate the colour of its skin (it is more reddish and brown than any other big cats of Iran. _Bawr _and _boor _are still used in Persian for blonde and brown).

Another (third) point is that tiger is the only big cat (_shir_) that demonstrates its skill in water (although this point is not proven for the extinct Caspian tigers). However, this is unlikely to make confusion between beaver and tiger even for someone who has never seen a beaver.


----------



## Skatinginbc

Turkish word for beaver is Kunduz.  Kunduz River is a tributary of the Amu Darya.  Amu Darya (Oxus) Valley was a main hub of ancient Aryans.  The Eurasian beaver has been hunted to  near-extinction.  Are we sure that there was no beaver along the Oxus in ancient times?


----------



## Treaty

Skatinginbc said:


> Turkish word for beaver is Kunduz.  Kunduz River is a tributary of the Amu Darya.  Amu Darya (Oxus) Valley was a main hub of ancient Aryans.  The Eurasian beaver has been hunted to  near-extinction.  Are we sure that there was no beaver along the Oxus in ancient times?



The name of Kunduz river comes from the city/state of Kunduz in north Afghanistan which is of a Perisan origin (kuhan-dez = old city). The Turkish name of the city was qatakant which has the same meaning. 
Beavers need wood to build their dams. Of course, there had been forests around Oxus once, but they had probably all gone before becoming populated.


----------



## Wolverine9

There is an informative article in Encyclopedia Iranica about the beaver in Iranian sources.  It also discusses the otter.  See here.


----------



## Treaty

Thanks Wolverine!

It was really helpful. Well, sorry for taking your time! It seems beavers were living next to my hometown in late 1800s (we should hope Schlimmer knew exactly what animal he was seeing, because there are still large-tail otters in that region). 

Anyway, I'm still curious if _babr_ (tiger) was originally something like _bawre sher_ (red/brown lion).


----------



## Wolverine9

I was right about the etymology of _babr_.  See the Encyclopedia Iranica article on Armenia here.  The relevant excerpt is below. 

_vagr_ “tiger” (OInd. _vyāghra_-, Pahl. _b(w)pl_, i.e. _baβr_, NPers. _babr_),


----------



## Treaty

Wolverine9 said:


> _vagr_ “tiger” (OInd. _vyāghra_-, Pahl. _b(w)pl_, i.e. _baβr_, NPers. _babr_),



Thanks again.

My concern is that _vyāghra _had to undergo a tremendous change to turn into _b(w)pl_. We do not have any intermediate word except _vagr_ (on which the hypothesis is based). In contrast, in the other examples of Indian influence, the original words (_kapi_ and _sakar_) are not dramatically changed, that suggests there was short gap between their borrowings in the respective languages.

So, _vyaghra_ should have entered Iranian languages earlier than the formation of Pahlavi. But exactly when, in early Greco-Buddhic Bacteria or when Cyrus annexed Gandhara? 

That's why I'm suspicious towards different roots for Armenian _vagr_ and Pahlavi _bwpl_? Armenia also had tigers until 1800s, so _vagr_ can be an original Armenian word. Besides, _vayri_ in Armenian means wild. Can it be related (I'm not sure of its etymology)?


----------



## Wolverine9

Treaty said:


> in the other examples of Indian influence, the original words (_kapi_ and _sakar_)



The Niya Prakrit form is _śakara_ rather than _sakar_.



Treaty said:


> So, _vyaghra_ should have entered Iranian languages earlier than  the formation of Pahlavi. But exactly when, in early Greco-Buddhic  Bacteria or when Cyrus annexed Gandhara?
> 
> That's why I'm suspicious towards different roots for Armenian _vagr_ and Pahlavi _bwpl_? Armenia also had tigers until 1800s, so _vagr_ can be an original Armenian word. Besides, _vayri_ in Armenian means wild. Can it be related (I'm not sure of its etymology)?



Elsewhere in the article it lists the Niya Prakrit _vyagra_ as the exact source, a language that was spoken during Buddhist times in Gandhara.  The Pahlavi form is supposed to be pronounced _baβr, _with v>b a natural transition in Indo-Iranian languages.  The Armenian form is considered to be a  borrowing from an Iranian language, which points to an Iranian form similar to _vagr _as the predecessor to the Pahlavi _baβr_.  The existence of tigers in Armenia doesn't mean they couldn't borrow words pertaining to that animal.  A borrowed word can replace a native word.  There are also words for horse, buffalo, camel, elephant, leopard, panther, etc. that were borrowed from Iranian; some of these animals did exist in Armenia.


----------



## aruniyan

Wolverine9 said:


> The Niya Prakrit form is _śakara_ rather than _sakar_.
> 
> 
> 
> Elsewhere in the article it lists the Niya Prakrit _vyagra_ as the exact source, a language that was spoken during Buddhist times in Gandhara.  The Pahlavi form is supposed to be pronounced _baβr, _with v>b a natural transition in Indo-Iranian languages.  The Armenian form is considered to be a  borrowing from an Iranian language, which points to an Iranian form similar to _vagr _as the predecessor to the Pahlavi _baβr_.  The existence of tigers in Armenia doesn't mean they couldn't borrow words pertaining to that animal.  A borrowed word can replace a native word.  There are also words for horse, buffalo, camel, elephant, leopard, panther, etc. that were borrowed from Iranian; some of these animals did exist in Armenia.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civet

In south India these are called as *Verugu*, is there any link to the animal in discussion? *ver*u meaning similar to  brew, Fer, Fury etc...


----------



## Treaty

Wolverine9 said:


> Elsewhere in the article it lists the Niya Prakrit _vyagra_ as the exact source, a language that was spoken during Buddhist times in Gandhara.


Niya Prakrit is a Mid. Indian language. In you previous example from Iranica, it mentions OInd. (Old Indian). This means it is normally dated along with Parthian and Sassanid empires (2BC-7AD).
I assume mentioning Niya suggests the geographic connection not the chronological one, as _vyaghra_ was probably used in earlier Indian. (Otherwise, why should we accept it as a genuine Prakrit word if it has no earlier cognates?)


Wolverine9 said:


> The Pahlavi form is supposed to be pronounced _baβr, _with v>b a natural transition in Indo-Iranian languages.  The Armenian form is considered to be a  borrowing from an Iranian language, which points to an Iranian form similar to _vagr _as the predecessor to the Pahlavi _baβr_.



Of course, v-b interchange is very common (even now). But, what about g,gh>b,β? Actually the reverse (v>g) is more common.


----------



## Wolverine9

Treaty said:


> Niya Prakrit is a Mid. Indian language. In you previous example from Iranica, it mentions OInd. (Old Indian). This means it is normally dated along with Parthian and Sassanid empires (2BC-7AD).
> I assume mentioning Niya suggests the geographic connection not the chronological one, as _vyaghra_ was probably used in earlier Indian. (Otherwise, why should we accept it as a genuine Prakrit word if it has no earlier cognates?)



OInd. refers to Vedic and Classical Sanskrit.  Niya Prakit would've been roughly contemporary to Parthian and Middle Persian.  Niya Prakrit was apparently the source of the loan in Iranian, but the earliest form of the word is the Vedic _vyaaghra_-.  I didn't post the excerpt of the Niya Prakrit origin before.  Here it is:

That Parthian played the part of such an intermediary must be assumed  also in other instances.  Most obvious is the case of Indian or  Aramaic/Syriac words.  Of Indian provenance are e.g. Arm. _kapik _ “ape” (as Zor. Mid. Pers. _kabīg_, NPers. _kabī_ from OInd. _kapi_-, _šakʿar _ “sugar” (as Mid. Pers., NPers. _šakar_) from Niya Prakrit _śakara_, or _vagr _ “tiger” from Niya Prakrit _vyagra_.


----------



## Wolverine9

It is interesting, though, that the Avestan _baβra- _"beaver" and the Pahlavi _baβr _"tiger" are near homonyms.


----------



## CyrusSH

*Moderator note: Merged threads. *

This is an interesting word, we know beavers are native to North Europe and America, the Latin/Greek word for beaver is _castor/kastor_ that is a loanword from Sanskrit _Kasturi_ which means "musk", but from the same origin of the word beaver, there is Sanskrit _bábhru_ but with the meaning of "mongoose", this animal is native to southern Eurasia and Africa.

The more interesting thing is that in Persian _bawra/babra_ means "tiger" and it is probably a loanword from Semitic languages, like Akkadian _barbaru_, but what we read in Zoroastrian texts show that this word means "beaver":

Yt.  5.129: She is clothed with garments of Bawra, Ardvi Sura Anahita; with the skin of thirty Bawras of those that bear four young ones, that are the finest kind of Bawras; for the skin of the *Bawra that lives in water* is the finest-colored of all skins, and when worked at the right time it shines to the eye with full sheen of silver and gold.


----------



## apmoy70

CyrusSH said:


> This is an interesting word, we know beavers are native to North Europe and America, the Latin/Greek word for beaver is _castor/kastor_ that is a loanword from Sanskrit _Kasturi_ which means "musk"...


Actually Beekes mentions the opposite, that the Sanskrit word is borrowed from the Gr. «καστόρ(ε)ιον» (Etymological Dictionary of Greek pg. 656). The word «κάστωρ» («κάστορας» in MoGr) is probably an Anatolian loan because the animal is already extinct in Greece by the late archaic period (in fact Herodotus claims that the name «κάστωρ» is first mentioned in the northern Anatolian area by the Black Sea, known as Pontic Anatolia).


----------



## rusita preciosa

Vasmer indicates that the Russian/Slavic word for бобр / бобёр [bobr / bobior] is related an ancient Indian root *bhe-bhru- (brown) and may be a cognate with "bear", "brown" and the Greek "φρύ̄νη" (toad).


----------

