# ommel / sauma



## Gavril

_ommel_ is translated "stitch" / "suture" by my dictionary, and _sauma_ as "seam". Are _ommel_ and _sauma_ correctly used in these sentences?


_Ihmisen pääkallolla on useat ompelet, jotka pitävät yhtä pääkallon luuta.

Säännölliset, etukäteen suunnitellut ompelet sanotaan saumoiksi.

Jos ommel kuuluu vaatekappaleen alkuperäiseen suunnitelmaan, ei sitä yleensä sanotaan "ompeleksi", vaan saumaksi.

Kun munuainen on siirretty potilaaseen, munuaiset suojaava iho suljetaan uudelleen ompelella / saumalla.

Ole hiljaa!! Kun puhut niin kovin äänin, revit viimeistä järkeäni koossa pitävää saumaa / ommelta!!_


Kiitos!


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## sammio

Gavril said:


> _Ihmisen pääkallossa on useita saumoja, jotka pitävät pääkallon luita yhdessä.
> 
> Säännöllisiä, etukäteen suunniteltuja ompeleita sanotaan saumoiksi. _(Quite a strange sentence, but I can't come up with any better alternative.)_
> 
> Jos ommel kuuluu vaatekappaleen alkuperäiseen kaavaan, ei sitä yleensä sanota "ompeleeksi", vaan saumaksi. _(Same thing as with the previous one.)_
> 
> Kun munuainen on siirretty potilaaseen, munuaisia suojaava iho suljetaan uudelleen ompeleella.
> 
> __Ole hiljaa!! Kun puhut niin kovaan ääneen, revit viimeistä järkeäni koossa pitävää saumaa / ommelta!!_ (This is apparently some idiom that we definately doesn't have in Finnish.)



A thing that came to my mind from English classes: while the English language likes substantives, Finnish prefers verbs. So instead of saying for example "sulkea ompeleella" we'd say "ommella".


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## Gavril

sammio said:


> Originally Posted by Gavril
> Ihmisen pääkallossa on useita saumoja, jotka pitävät pääkallon luita yhdessä.



Just curious, why "useita" and not "useat"? As far as I know, the human skull always has 4 sutures (_saumat_), but wouldn't the partitive plural _useita_ indicate that we don't know the number of sutures?



> Jos ommel kuuluu vaatekappaleen alkuperäiseen kaavaan, ei sitä yleensä sanota "ompeleeksi", vaan saumaksi. (Same thing as with the previous one.)



What I meant to say was,

"If a stitch is part of the original design of a piece of clothing, it is usually called a 'seam' rather than a 'stitch'."

Would you say that the distinction made here between Eng. _stitch_ and _seam_ also holds for Finnish _ommel_ and _sauma_?



> _Ole hiljaa!! Kun puhut niin kovaan ääneen, revit viimeistä järkeäni koossa pitävää saumaa / ommelta!!_ (This is apparently some idiom that we definately doesn't have in Finnish.)



_Revit viimeistä järkeäni koossa pitävää saumaa_ = "You are tearing apart the last seams of my sanity". What would be a better way to say this in Finnish?


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## sammio

Gavril said:


> Just curious, why "useita" and not "useat"? As far as I know, the human skull always has 4 sutures (_saumat_), but wouldn't the partitive plural _useita_ indicate that we don't know the number of sutures?



The partitive in Finnish indicates tens of other things too than just the unknown amount of something. If a sentence has the verb _olla_ it is often a so called "eksistentiaalilause" or a predikative (something/somewhere is something/somewhere) and in these cases the partitive is used.





Gavril said:


> What I meant to say was,
> 
> "If a stitch is part of the original design of a piece of clothing, it is usually called a 'seam' rather than a 'stitch'."
> 
> Would you say that the distinction made here between Eng. _stitch_ and _seam_ also holds for Finnish _ommel_ and _sauma_?



_Ommel_ can be many other things too than just _sauma_, for example _tikkaus_ (and whatever other handwork terms there is.) Anything that is stitched is _ommeltu_ (as far as I know) while _sauma_ is just the stitching that holds parts together.





Gavril said:


> _Revit viimeistä järkeäni koossa pitävää saumaa_ = "You are tearing apart the last seams of my sanity". What would be a better way to say this in Finnish?



_Viet minulta viimeisenkin järjen hivenen_ could be one.


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## Gavril

sammio said:


> _Ommel_ can be many other things too than just _sauma_, for example _tikkaus_ (and whatever other handwork terms there is.) Anything that is stitched is _ommeltu_ (as far as I know) while _sauma_ is just the stitching that holds parts together.



What do you mean by "holds parts together"? For me, all stitching holds parts together in some way, so I can't tell if you agree with what I said or not.


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## sammio

Well, for example _koristetikkaus_ (click) doesn't hold any parts together nor when you stitch (or is it "sew" then, I don't know about these English terms) ends of the sleeves or legs or whatever to avoid them unravelling. Basically, _ommel_ is anything done with a sewing machine (or by hands with a needle and a string). It's obviously quite hard to explain since I don't know the correct terms in English, but I hope this made it a bit clearer to you.


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## Gavril

sammio said:


> Well, for example _koristetikkaus_ (click) doesn't hold any parts together nor when you stitch (or is it "sew" then, I don't know about these English terms) ends of the sleeves or legs or whatever to avoid them unravelling.



I think the verb "stitch" is preferred when you're repairing something. Then again, I'm not a knitter or a sewer so I'm not sure of the technical vocabulary.



> Basically, _ommel_ is anything done with a sewing machine (or by hands with a needle and a string). It's obviously quite hard to explain since I don't know the correct terms in English, but I hope this made it a bit clearer to you.



We're almost there, I think.  Tell me if this understanding is correct:

- Every _sauma_ is an _ommel_, but not every _ommel_ is a _sauma_.

- If an _ommel_ holds two originally separate parts together (e.g., if it connects a sleeve or a pocket to the main part of a shirt), then it is usually referred to as a _sauma_.

- When ripped clothing (or other fabric) is sewn back together, the stitch that holds it together is called an _ommel_ rather than a _sauma_.


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## sammio

Gavril said:


> Tell me if this understanding is correct:
> 
> - Every _sauma_ is an _ommel_, but not every _ommel_ is a _sauma_.
> 
> - If an _ommel_ holds two originally separate parts together (e.g., if it connects a sleeve or a pocket to the main part of a shirt) it is usually referred to as a _sauma_.
> 
> - When ripped clothing (or other fabric) is sewn back together, the stitch that holds it together is called an _ommel_ rather than a _sauma_.



Yes, these are all correct. I think you got it!


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## akana

> Well, for example koristetikkaus (click) doesn't hold any parts together nor when you stitch (or is it "sew" then, I don't know about these English terms) ends of the sleeves or legs or whatever to avoid them unravelling. Basically, ommel is anything done with a sewing machine (or by hands with a needle and a string). It's obviously quite hard to explain since I don't know the correct terms in English, but I hope this made it a bit clearer to you.



In case you're interested in the English terms, one possibility for koristetikkaus would be "embroidery" in English. The verb used for stitching the ends of sleeves would be "to hem," which is also a noun, though you can also "sew up" the ends of your sleeves. "To sew" is used mainly in a general sense. The word "stitch" means just a single stitch, but is often used when referring only to a few, or a set number, whereas "seam" is the entire row of stitches. So as Gavril mentions, "stitch" is more appropriate for small repairs.



> - Every sauma is an ommel, but not every ommel is a sauma.



My understanding is that "ommel" is only used for something involving thread, whereas "sauma" can also refer to things like tile grout, or to use Gavril's example, sutures in the skull. Is this understanding correct? When you say every sauma is an ommel, does that apply only to sewing vocabulary?


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## sammio

akana said:


> My understanding is that "ommel" is only used for something involving thread, whereas "sauma" can also refer to things like tile grout, or to use Gavril's example, sutures in the skull. Is this understanding correct? When you say every sauma is an ommel, does that apply only to sewing vocabulary?



Oh yes indeed, a good point. I don't know what Gavril meant but I was talking about the handwork vocabulary, _sauma_ obviously means other things too but when it comes to sewing then "every _sauma_ is _ommel_."


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