# Osmanlıca metin yardımı



## Cahittinsan

Merhabâ arkadaşlar, fotoğraflar pek okunaklı değil lâkin birisi Türkçeye yâhut Latin alfabesine çevirebilir mi lütfen? .




View attachment 39656


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## Torontal

Cahittinsan said:


> Merhabâ arkadaşlar, fotoğraflar pek okunaklı değil lâkin birisi Türkçeye yâhut Latin alfabesine çevirebilir mi lütfen? .



Merhabalar Cahittinsan


Bir Vesîka
----
Ermenistân kûmîseri tâşnâklara virdiği cevâbda katl idilen Müslümânları Kızıl Ordu unutmadı demekdedi _[veya -dir?]_
-*-
Teflîs’de intişâr iden « Prâvdâ » gazetesinin 4 Teşr_[î]_N L. 37 târîhli _[?]_ nüsh_[â]_sında verdiği malûmâta naz_[ar]_an İrân’da teşekkül iden tâşnâk komitesi 1 Eylül 37’de (Ru_?_n Perusyân) imz_[â]_sıyla Ermenistân kûmîserliğine gönderdiği bir mektûbda « _[?]_âşnâkların katl-i âmına tekrâr meydan virecek olursanız mukâbil katl-i âmlar _[...]_lacağından emîn olunuz. » tarzında id_[â]_re-i kelâm itmişdir. Tâşn_[â]_k k_[o]_mitesinin bu _[m]_ektûbuna _[E]_rmenistâ_[n]_ _[k]_ûmîseri tarafından şâ_[y veya b?]_ân-ı dikkat bir vesîka teşkîl iden âtîdeki cevâb gönderilmişdir:
« Bû ce_[çe, he?]_ikler, tâş_[n]_âklar gibi fecî h_[veya c?]_inâyât ve sû-i kasdlar tertîbi_[n]_e tenezzül itmezler. Ber lîn ve İstanbul’daki tâşnâklar bizimle dostâne çalışmak içün mukâvele akdine sarf-ı mesâî idiyorlar. Tâşnâkların mahv itdikleri Müslümân ve Mâlâkân köy ve şehirleri ve öldirdikl_[er]_i binler ce Türk, Tâtâr ve Müsl_[üm]_ânları Kızıl Ordu unutmadı .» ( Â . Â )


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## marrish

I don't speak Turkish so I'm asking just out of curiosity: what does قزیل اردو mean? Red Army?


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## Torontal

marrish said:


> I don't speak Turkish so I'm asking just out of curiosity: what does قزيل اردو mean? Red Army?



yes
 قيزيل اردو (Kızıl Ordu) is Red Army.
kızıl ( قزيل or قيزيل ) means red, ordu ( اردو or اوردو ) is 1. army, army corps 2. camp


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## marrish

Perfect explanation, thank you very much. The transcription seems great too and I think I could try to learn some Turkish, look up the Turkic part of the vocabulary and learn some grammar, because this excerpt appears really very easy to me!


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## marrish

Torontal said:


> tarafından şâ_[y veya b?]_ân-ı dikkat


شاملِ دقت؟ Does it make sense?



Torontal said:


> kızıl ( قزيل or قيزيل ) means red,


Is this the same colour as قرمزی ? [qirmizii]


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## Torontal

marrish said:


> Perfect explanation, thank you very much. The transcription seems great too and I think I could try to learn some Turkish, look up the Turkic part of the vocabulary and learn some grammar, because this excerpt appears really very easy to me!



I'm absolutely sure with your Urdu language background Ottoman-Turkish would be easy for you. This is I think an early Republican era text (before the transition to the Latin alphabet and much of the language reform affecting the vocabulary), you would probably find a Classical era Ottoman text even more easier. There depending on the "eloquency" level of the text, in more extreme cases only the most basic auxiliary verbs were in Turkish, the rest were written with Perso-Arabic vocabulary, which is already familiar to you from Urdu.  From contemporary Turkish a big part of these are lost, but in Urdu they are still well alive as I could see.


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## Torontal

marrish said:


> شاملِ دقت؟ Does it make sense?



Maybe you are right, I'm not sure, it can be some set phrase about attention which I'm not familiar with. But the overall meaning of the sentence is
"To this letter of the Tashnak comittee, the following answer - which is an interesting document/a document worthy of _attention -_ was sent by the comissar of Armenia :"



> Is this the same colour as قرمزی ? [qirmizii]



Yes, kızıl and kırmızı refer to the same red colour, but there are contexts where you can use this and where you can use that word, so they are not interchangable. Generally _kızıl_ is used more in a metaphorical, abstract sense (for example the Central Asian Kızılkum (=red sand) Desert) , while a red coloured car, dress or a red apple is _kırmızı_. I'm not sure if it is totally clear, it is hard to describe the difference )


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## marrish

Thanks for all the answers, stay assured that you've explained it very well and I can understand the difference you're hinting at quite clearly, by analogies.

Another thing: there's what to me looks like the letter nuun in the final position without its upper dot, eg. in ارمنستاں. Have you (anyone?) noticed such a practice in Ottoman texts?


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## Torontal

marrish said:


> Thanks for all the answers, stay assured that you've explained it very well and I can understand the difference you're hinting at quite clearly, by analogies.
> 
> Another thing: there's what to me looks like the letter nuun in the final position without its upper dot, eg. in ارمنستاں. Have you (anyone?) noticed such a practice in Ottoman texts?



Here I think it is only a printing error that some dots are missing/no longer visible, because there are other places where the final nûn has dot. But there were certain type of bureaucratic texts where they regularly left out dots all the time, not only for nûn, which is very annoying for an amateur as me with little vocabulary.
I think in rıka رقعة script, which was also widely used by the Ottomans (and which I can't really read, only with great difficulty  ), the dot was usually not put on word-final and unconnected ن , only reduced to this



(just my guess, this might be the origin of the Urdu dotless nûn too?)


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## shafaq

Torontal said:


> Merhabalar Cahittinsan
> 
> 
> Bir Vesîka
> ----
> Ermenistân kûmîseri tâşnâklara virdiği cevâbda katl idilen Müslümânları Kızıl Ordu unutmadı demekdedi _[veya -dir?]_
> -*-
> Teflîs’de intişâr iden « Prâvdâ » gazetesinin 4 Teşr_[î]_N evvel 37 târîhli _[?]_ nüsh_[â]_sında verdiği malûmâta naz_[ar]_an İrân’da teşekkül iden tâşnâk komitesi 1 Eylül 37’de (Ru_?_n Perusyân) imz_[â]_sıyla Ermenistân kûmîserliğine gönderdiği bir mektûbda « _[d]_âşnâkların katl-i âmına tekrâr meydan virecek olursanız mukâbil katl-i âmlar _[...]_lacağından emîn olunuz. » tarzında id_[â]_re-i kelâm itmişdir. Tâşn_[â]_k k_[o]_mitesinin bu _[m]_ektûbuna _[E]_rmenistâ_[n]_ _[k]_ûmîseri tarafından şâ_[y ]_ân-ı dikkat bir vesîka teşkîl iden âtîdeki cevâb gönderilmişdir:
> « Bolşevikler, tâş_[n]_âklar gibi fecî cinâyât ve sû-i kasdlar tertîbi_[n]_e tenezzül itmezler. Ber lîn ve İstanbul’daki tâşnâklar bizimle dostâne çalışmak içün mukâvele akdine sarf-ı mesâî idiyorlar. Tâşnâkların mahv itdikleri Müslümân ve Mâlâkân köy ve şehirleri ve öldirdikl_[er]_i binler ce Türk, Tâtâr ve Müsl_[üm]_ânları Kızıl Ordu unutmadı .» ( Â . Â )


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## Cahittinsan

marrish said:


> شاملِ دقت؟ Does it make sense?
> 
> Is this the same colour as قرمزی ? [qirmizii]


Merhabâ, evet neredeyse aynıdır lâkin çok ufak 1 fark vardır. . 
Kızıl, kırmızının parlak tonudur. .


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## blueeye

Cahittinsan said:


> Merhabâ, evet neredeyse aynıdır lâkin çok ufak 1 fark vardır. .
> Kızıl, kırmızının parlak tonudur. .


Yes right Cahittinsan. Also "kırmızı" came to our language from Arabic language.


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