# en amont



## lozérienne

Je comprends le sens de "en amont", qui se retrouve à plusieurs reprises dans un document que je traduis actuellement. Mais je ne comprends pas son emploi dans la phrase suivante:

"Après la méthode et les enjeux, le troisième niveau d'adaptation culturelle est encore plus _en amont_".

A l'aide, s'il vous plaît!

*Moderator note: several threads on the same topic were merged.
Note de la modération : plusieurs fils sur le même thème ont été fusionnés pour créer ce fil.*


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## crazyrock

Hi!
"en amont" ça veut dire "avant" 

en fait l'utilisation normale concerne un cours d'eau, tout ce qui est vers la mer est "en aval" et tout ce qui est vers la source est "en amont" 
donc après on peut l'utiliser dans d'autres contextes pour dire que quelque chose est avant  

je suis claire?


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## JeanDeSponde

lozérienne said:


> "Après la méthode et les enjeux, le troisième niveau d'adaptation culturelle est encore plus _en amont_".


Take _en amont_ here as _from the initial stages_ - then your English will probably be better than mine to improve  _the third level of cultural adjustment _[_adaptation_ ?] _lies in stages still more initial._
Looks ugly; but the meaning is there...


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## equilingual

_amont_ and _upstream_ have a figurative meaning in both languages.


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## wildan1

equilingual said:


> _amont_ and _upstream_ have a figurative meaning in both languages.


 
It's true that _upstream _provides the same figurative sense as _en amont_, but English doesn't really use it as frequently as French does in this figurative sense. It would be easy to overuse it.

_in advance, in anticipation, ahead of time, as a preliminary, upfront_ are more often used English equivalents for this


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## equilingual

wildan1 said:


> It's true that _upstream _provides the same figurative sense as _en amont_, but English doesn't really use it as frequently as French does in this figurative sense. It would be easy to overuse it.


 
I agree, but I've heard it used _not infrequently_ in business meetings on both sides of the border...


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## Michaelcollins

comment vous traduiriez : "recommendations à prendre en compte en amont"

"Recommandations to be considered upstream" ?


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## Floor

My try: Recommendations to be considered beforehand.


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## loulo

Hi, 
I need to translate the following title : "des partenaires en amont". It means that some people (the partners) do some job before others do the same. I'm not sure to be clear in my explanation... 
I think that 'upstream' won't fit in this case. Any ideas ? 
Thank you


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## gracelandmansion

hello loulo, 
I would say  "some partners beforehand"


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## floise

Hi Loulo,

What kind of job is it?

Does the job need re-doing because the first time the workers made mistakes?

I've thought of a few possible translations, but context would help.

'*phase one teammates*' (for some reason the item being manufactured needs to be re-worked in two phases?)
'*our first-draft counterparts*' (if it's paperwork that needs to be worked on more than once)


It's not easy to translate. Maybe others will have suggestions.

floise


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## loulo

Thank you floise. 
The sentence relates to the agricultural field. The products supplied by farmers (seeds, vegetables...) enable the group to sell processed products (ie: the farmer's beans will end up in cans). 
So, here the work of the partners (farmers) help the group because they already did one part of the job before ('en amont'). 
I'm not sure I'm clear enough. Let me know...


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## Suehil

You could use just 'our suppliers' or, more generally, 'our partners earlier in the chain'


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## floise

Suehill's suggestion 'our partners earlier in the chain' gets my vote!

floise


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## tamarisk

Hi,

I've read through the threads about "en amont" and still don't know how to translate it...

_"Pour contenir les risques de propagation de l'anomalie il faut:_
_- donner des réponses aux utilisateurs des matériels et aux fabricants en amont"_

Context is a training document for a company about dealing with problems/anomalies.

My try:_"provide answers for material users and manufacturers as soon as possible" _ 
or does this not get across the notion of "beforehand" that is given with "en amont" in French ?


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## Sencha

En amont suppose qu'on est en présence d'un phénomène qui se déroule à plusieurs niveaux. Par exemple, si on veut endiguer l'épidémie d'obésité infantile, on peut envoyer les enfants faire des cures d'amaigrissement, mais on peut aussi agir en amont, en faisant de l'information à l'école sur l'équilibre nutritionnel, etc, donc agir sur l'étape précédente. Ici, on pourrait attendre que les anomalies apparaissent et les gérer ensuite. Mais il vaut mieux prévenir leur apparition et intervenir en amont, au moment de la fabrication des machines.
On considère que le processus suit un chemin descendant du sommet, le départ, jusqu'à la mer, l'arrivée. Il faut agir plus tôt, pas forcément le plus tôt possible.
C'est plus clair pour toi ?


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## tamarisk

Donc cela suppose qu'il fallait prévenir les "utilisateurs" AVANT l'apparition de l'anomalie ???
Mais vu qu'on est en train de parler d'une anomalie qui s'est déjà produite ("comment contenir les risques de propagation"), je ne vois pas comment je peux intégrer cette idée dans la phrase.
Je comprends ce que tu veux dire de manière générale 
(peut être si cela avait été fait, il n'y aura pas besoin de ce manuel de formation!!!) mais est-ce que ça marche dans le cas présent ???

Et merci d'avoir pris le temps de me l'expliquer!


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## bh7

> _- donner des réponses aux utilisateurs des matériels et aux fabricants en amont"
> _ My try:_"provide answers for material users and manufacturers as soon as possible" _


...provide feedback to users of the materials and to manufacturers involved in prior stages of processing


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## wildan1

_provide replies *prior to / *__*in advance of*..._

NB: _upstream_ (or_ downstream_) are rarely used in English in this context


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## tamarisk

Wildan1 - "prior to" or "in advance of" would work if there was something else afterwards - but there isn't!

BH7 - your try sounds good - "feedback" fits better than answers

Thankyou all for your help

Tamarisk


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## cassys

on my mind and in this context, i will translate "en amont" by "previously"


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## wildan1

tamarisk said:


> Wildan1 - "prior to" or "in advance of" would work if there was something else afterwards - but there isn't!
> 
> BH7 - your try sounds good - "feedback" fits better than answers
> 
> Thankyou all for your help
> 
> Tamarisk


 
Based on your French text, I understood the "something else" to be the problem that they are trying to prevent happening.

How about _to anticipate possible anomolies/problems in advance of their developing_?


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## bh7

I think wildan1's suggestion would work if you translate "en amont" as "prior to subsequent/further processing".  The basic idea is rather simple: In a multi-stage production process, one would ideally wish to detect inefficiencies as early as possible at each production stage, so that these inefficiencies don't snowball through further processing in subsequent stages of production.  If inefficiencies (including material or semi-finished output of unacceptable quality) are only detected at final inspection, you'd lose the cost of material and processing at each production stage.  E.g., if you have three stages of production, detecting low-quality output at the end of stage 1 will avoid additional material and processing costs in stages 2 & 3.


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## alisonp

As I read it, I'd go for "upstream".  It's widely used in a manufacturing context, and applies e.g. to actions which take place further towards the start of the manufacturing process from the current position/point of view.  I read it as: the users and the manufacturers who, prior to them (currently) being used, actually manufactured whatever they are.


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## guesne_b

I was astonished not to find anywhere this very common usage of "en amont" in a hierarchical context. For exemple, how would you translate "Ces décisions sont prises en amont" (i.e. those decisions are taken by my hierarchy - e.g. my boss)

Hope it makes sense!


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## Padraig

A common expression in English is _higher up the line_. 

In informal speech _upstairs_ is sometimes used.


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## JohnDubov

Salut!
I would just like to know the meaning of this phrase:

_"La beauté masculine n'est tolérable qu'en amont chez l'enfant"_
Am i right in thinking that it means:
_"Masculine beauty is only accepted amongst children"?_

I have just looked at the rest of the sentence and I think it adds something on to the meaning, using some sort of metaphor for the general idea. 
Here is the complete sentence:
_"La beauté masculine n'est tolérable qu'en amont chez l'enfant, où elle se trouve parée de tous les traits de l'innocence, et en aval chez le vieillard où elle semble le complément naturel de la sagesse"_
I know that "en amont" means "upstream" and "en aval" means "downstream" so what is the significance of these words in the context?
Any help would be really helpful!
Thank you in advance!!
JD


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## Keith Bradford

_En amont_ and _en aval_ are common, especially in business French, to mean "at an earlier/later stage".  "En amont chez le fournisseur... en aval chez le client."

So Outsider's idea "earlier in life" and of course the corollary "later in life" would be fine.


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## David Latapie

In French worflow jargon, amont/aval are used a lot. Is it the case in English too for upstrzam/downstream? Wildan1 and alisonp seem to have contradictory answers.


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## wildan1

Outside of "workflow" (IT language?--I'm not familiar with it) _up/downstream_ are words describing rivers--in the literal sense. Not much used outside of that context on a general register.


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## David Latapie

Workflow: yes, IT language, I thought it was more common. Workflow is, well, your work processing (step A, step B…)

Thank you. So it seems French and English work the same here: the general meaning is hydrographic and a segment of the population use it as a metaphor in the chain of events. This said segment is the same in French- and English- speaking countries. So if you're in a profession in France where the words “upstream”/“downstream” are understood, they will also be in the same profession in the UK. And vice-versa.

Bottom line: *amont/aval = upstream/downstream*. But the reader may not understand that correctly, because there are technical terms.


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## alisonp

David Latapie said:


> In French worflow jargon, amont/aval are used a lot. Is it the case in English too for upstrzam/downstream?


 
Yes - they can be used in the description of any type of, say, industrial process, so a unit can be upstream or downstream of another unit, for example.


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## DhanapalV

Hi,

I would like to know the meaning of 'fiable en amont' in English. Is it 'source reliable'?

"Les données à jour et fiables en amont doivent être disponibles du lundi au vendredi de 7h à 21h"

Thanking you in advance.


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## doodlebugger

_fiable = reliable_
_en amont = upstream_

_Up-to-date and reliable upstream data must be available..._


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## takemethere

Can anyone translate this for me? I'm really struggling with it.

The context is: Cette authorité en amont passe par la parole «range ta chambre», «attends ton tour pour parler»...


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## FXG

Hello,

The idea is that you have to establish your authority [as parent] in a long run, before (en amont) the serious clash calling for a quick reaction.
You have to establish ground rules like "tidy your room", "do not interrupt to say something", etc. beforehand.
Stricto sensu "en amont" means "upstream, upriver" but it has a figurative sens in a lot of domains.

Best regards

FXG


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## Catalinata

Hi, I'm not sure if the expression _pousser en amont_ can have a railway connotation, but if so, then I am looking for a similar expression in English. The text I'm translating has a number of allusions to rail and trains so I'd like to keep them intact. For now, my translation of _pousser en amont_ is quite simply, _push forward_. Thanks for sharing any suggestions. Here's an extract:

XXX s’ouvre à d’autres secteurs et pousse en amont la réflexion et l’innovation.


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## max_france

Catalinata bella,
"Push forward" me paraît très bien.


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## Paulietre

Can anyone tell me what "en amont les" means in this sentence "je cree en amont les conditions.." ?  "Upstream" seems to be the most popular meaning but doesn't fit in this context.  All suggestions greatly appreciated!!


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## joaopaolo

Before, prior to...(nothing to do with upstream).
The rest of the sentence would help to find the best translation.


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## bh7

The literal meaning of "en amont" is "upstream", "higher up on the river".  When employed figuratively, it refers to sth. that is logically, physically, organisationally etc. prior to / ahead of / a prerequisite of sth. else.  The wording of the translation in these cases has to be adapted to the specific context, you can't just look it up in a dictionary.


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