# Neither ; nor



## Wunny

Hey.
I didn't find that on the Internet, or it is bad explained, so I ask you that:
How say Neither - Nor in Hebrew?
Exemple of sentence with that: 

"I speak neither Japanese nor Turkish".
Thank to answer me... ;-)


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## amikama

לא... ולא...

"I speak neither Japanese nor Turkish" = אני לא מדבר לא יפנית ולא טורקית


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## hadronic

With three לא  in total ?


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## hadronic

What about :  ? אני לא מדבר יפנית וגם לא טורקית


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## amikama

hadronic said:


> With three לא  in total ?


Yes.



hadronic said:


> What about :  ? אני לא מדבר יפנית וגם לא טורקית


Yes, that's good too.


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## Wunny

amikama said:


> לא... ולא...
> 
> "I speak neither Japanese nor Turkish" = אני לא מדבר לא יפנית ולא טורקית



Thank you. It's very easy, unlike French or English.
So, is this correct:

"I eat neither an apple nor an lemon" = אני לא אוכל לא תפוח ולא לימון

?


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## hadronic

I don't think French is fondamentaly different 
Je ne parle ni japonais ni turc.  
We also have three "n-" words...

English sounds more logical.


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## Wunny

hadronic said:


> I don't think French is fondamentaly different
> Je ne parle ni japonais ni turc.
> We also have three "n-" words...
> 
> English sounds more logical.



Je ne sais pas si on peut répondre par une langue autre que l'Anglais, mais je pense quand même, entre nous, que la formation de ce genre de phrase en Français est très logique.
ne = marque la négation
ni = même racine que "ne" "non" ect.


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## hadronic

You said Hebrew was easier than English or French. I was just saying, I find that Hebrew and French stand on one side (with double negations), and English on the other side (with single negations).
Hence my two statements :
- Hebrew is not easier than French : both use double negations.
- English is more logical : double-negations should equate affirmation, which is not what is being meant here, so single negation is more logical.


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> - Hebrew is not easier than French : both use double negations.



The way I understood it was that in this case Hebrew uses the same word "לא", while in French, you would need both "ne" and "ni", and in English, both "neither" and "nor".


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## hadronic

Correct, but from my point of view it makes Hebrew even more illogical / difficult since the double-usage of the exact same negator should really be equal to positive. At least in French, you could say that "ni" outside of a preceding "ne" doesn't mean anything per se. 
For instance, sentences like זה לא נשמע לי לא ברור, should equate זה נשמע ברור., but under the light of this thread, it could also mean : it sounds neither clear (nor... sth else), which is the exact opposite.


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## DieHigh

hadronic said:


> Correct, but from my point of view it makes Hebrew even more illogical / difficult since the double-usage of the exact same negator should really be equal to positive. At least in French, you could say that "ni" outside of a preceding "ne" doesn't mean anything per se.
> For instance, sentences like זה לא נשמע לי לא ברור, should equate זה נשמע ברור., but under the light of this thread, it could also mean : it sounds neither clear (nor... sth else), which is the exact opposite.



זה לא נשמע לי לא ברור does mean זה נשמע לי ברור.


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## hadronic

Yes, but according to this thread, a sentence like : זה לא נשמע לי לא ברור ולא נכון would mean something like "it sounds neither clear nor correct to me", but potentially also  : "it doesn't sound unclear and uncorrect to me", which is the exacrt opposite.


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## arielipi

There's a missing explanation here; when we use this double negation the first לא acts as a wrapper: I don't like (the following things not apples and not oranges.
both not are also emphasized, like one would say I do not like him, to emphasize the not.
To put it simply, it's like counting, not that, not that.


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## hadronic

I got this, but now how do you make the difference between the two readings I mentioned above ?


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## arielipi

Like Meryl Streep said: I listen.
Its about the emphasis. if the not and not are its the negative wrapper; if the first not is, its the positive meaning.
זה לא נשמע לי לא ברור ולא נכון it doesnt sound incorrect and unclear to me.
זה לא נשמע לי, לא ברור ולא נכון it sounds neither clear nor correct to me.


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