# Czech/Slovak/Polish: Differences



## Diaspora

So what are exactly the main differences between Czech, Slovak and Polish?


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## slavic_one

Huh... mainly grammer and lexic


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## slavic_one

Some examples:
- different endings for verbs
- Polish different perfekt (Polish is unique in that amongst other Slavic languages)
- where Czech and Slovak has "h" Polish (like almost all other Slavic languages) has "g" (ok not in all cases, but mainly - ethimologically, CZ and SK "h" is other's "g")
- Slovak has more words similar to Polish than Czech (to Polish), while Czech and Slovak are the most similar
- different conugation
- and so on....

More or less, same as if you ask between e.g. Czech, Croatian and Slovene or Polish, Ukrainian and Russian and so on...


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## winpoj

Slovak and Polish suffer from lacking "ř".


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## Azori

For comparison, the same text in Polish, Czech and Slovak:

*Polish*

_Zakupy_

_Gdy coś jest nam niezbędne albo gdy czegoś pragniemy i mamy pieniądze, to robimy zakupy. Na zakupy można pojechać samochodem albo autobusem czy też pociągiem, w przypadku gdy do sklepu mamy tylko kawałek drogi. Zakupy robimy w sklepie albo w centrum handlowym, bo tam jest więcej sklepów w jednym miejscu. Pieniądze to zwykle monety i banknoty. Jeżeli nie mamy pieniędzy, możemy spytać przyjaciela czy nam pożyczy. Jeżeli mamy więcej niż osiemnaście lat, to możemy sobie kupić polską wódkę i papierosy. Nie możemy sobie kupić marihuany, bo handel narkotykami jest w Polsce nielegalny._

*Czech*

Nakupování

  Pokud něco potřebujeme nebo po něčem toužíme a máme peníze, jdeme nakupovat. Na nákupy se dá jet autem, nebo autobusem, či vlakem, v případě že to máme daleko. Nakupujeme v obchodě, nebo v obchodním středisku, protože tam je více obchodů na jednom místě. Peníze jsou obvykle mince a bankovky. Když nemáme peníze, můžeme se zeptat kamaráda, jestli nám půjčí. Pokud máme více než osmnáct let, můžeme si koupit polskou vodku a cigarety. Ale nemůžeme si koupit marihuanu, protože obchod s drogami je v Polsku nelegální.

*Slovak*

Nakupovanie

Pokiaľ niečo potrebujeme alebo po niečom túžime a máme peniaze, ideme nakupovať. Na nákupy sa dá ísť autom, alebo autobusom, či vlakom, v prípade že to máme ďaleko. Nakupujeme v obchode, alebo v obchodnom stredisku, pretože tam je viac obchodov na jednom mieste. Peniaze sú obvykle mince a bankovky. Keď nemáme peniaze, môžeme sa spýtať kamaráta, či nám požičia. Pokiaľ máme viac než osemnásť rokov, môžeme si kúpiť poľskú vodku a cigarety. Ale nemôžeme si kúpiť marihuanu, pretože obchod s drogami je v Poľsku nelegálny.


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## sokol

winpoj said:


> Slovak and Polish suffer from lacking "ř".


While this in theory is true I'd see this rather as an advantage of Slovak and Polish over Czech.
(Only kidding of course, as supposedly even Czech children have troubles learning the correct pronunciation of "ř". )

Well, in all earnest:

- Slovak has a great many diphtongs, as has Polish and Croatian plus Slovene dialects;
- Slovak has a dark back vowel where Czech (and generally all Slavic languages) haven't: "som" for example, vs. CZ "jsem" and PL "jestem" (Slovene "sem", BCS "sam" etc.; this feature of Slovak sounds quite exceptional to me and I've wondered if it could be due to Hungarian influence;
- Polish phonology significantly differs from Czech and Slavic phonology; the latter are rather similar despite all those diphtongs and the dark vowels ("som") plus a few other differencies in phonology;
- I'd say lior neith's example shows quite well that Slovak and Czech are also rather close concerning grammar and idioms while Polish differs here significantly.

And so on.
Of course, all three - PL, CZ and SVK - really are quite close, especially if you compare at a dialectal level.
We've had that somewhere in this forum before, I can't quite remember where - that Eastern Slovak dialects supposedly have an accentuation which is somewhere in-between Standard Slovak and Polish accentuation.

(The question is a little pointless really because it's way too broad  - to compare at such a level, including all and everything, really would require an entire book; a thread won't do. )


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## Diaspora

Thanks, from the sample text, wow Polish is really different from Czech and Slovak, in fact trying to read Polish makes my head hurt.


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## Azori

The West Slavic languages are divided into 3 subgroups: Czech-Slovak, Lechitic and Sorbian, where Czech and Slovak fall under the Czech-Slovak group and Polish under the Lechitic one. Czechs and Slovaks can generally talk to each other and understand fully (most of the time) what the other is saying while a Czech or a Slovak speaking Czech/Slovak to a Pole can usually only make himself understood just to get along, rather than involve in meaningful conversations (especially when one doesn't speak any foreign language, otherwise, at least from personal experience, English is preferred).


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## slavic_one

winpoj said:


> Slovak and Polish suffer from lacking "ř".



Won't say that for Polish! Polish has same that sound (morphologicaly) - rz, just it's pronounced as ż or sz (ž / š).

Polish don't have ě, where in Slovak sometimes e is soft.

Cz and Slv don't have ł.

Slovak has ľ, ŕ, ä, ĺ, which other lngs don't have.. Polish writes č and š with two symbols - cz, sz; ž as ż; and has ś, ź, ć, dź which Czech and Slovak don't have (althou ć is often like CZ / SK ť).

In Czech and Slovak, (soft) i makes soft t, d, n while in Polish c, s, z, dz, n.

But really pretty pointless topic (please no offense, Diaspora)


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## Azori

Also, Czech, unlike Slovak, has ě, ř and ů but Slovak has ä, ľ, ĺ, ŕ, dz, dž and diphtongs ia, ie, iu, ô /u̯ɔ/.

Slovak has a more regular grammar than Czech.
Slovak uses palatalization more often.
Czech and Slovak have different declension and conjugation endings.
Czech, unlike Slovak, uses the vocative.
Slovak uses the passive voice formed like in English less than Czech.
There's a "rhythmical shortening rule" (rytmické krátenie) in Slovak according to which there cannot be 2 long syllables in a row in one word. Diphtongs are regarded as long syllables as well (for example SK -biely, CZ -bílý). There are some exceptions, though.

And phonetic differences of course, both languages have rather distinct pronunciation and intonation.


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## Diaspora

> Polish different perfekt (Polish is unique in that amongst other Slavic languages)


 
How is the Polish Perfect (aka Past) different from Czech and Slovak, I thought all Slavic languages use the Past Participle for the Perfect?


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## slavic_one

Diaspora said:


> How is the Polish Perfect (aka Past) different from Czech and Slovak, I thought all Slavic languages use the Past Participle for the Perfect?



As far as I know, all other Slavic lngs make perfect with auxiliary verb and main verb in past.
Polish goes only with sufix.

Czech: byl jsem / byla jsem; byl jsi / byla jsi; byl / byla; byli jsme; byli jste; byli
Slovak: bol som / bola som; bol si / bola si; bol / bola; boli sme; boli ste; boli 
Polish: byłem / byłam; byłeś / byłaś; był / była; byliśmy; byliście; byli


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## robin74

slavic_one said:


> As far as I know, all other Slavic lngs make perfect with auxiliary verb and main verb in past.
> Polish goes only with sufix.
> 
> Czech: byl jsem / byla jsem; byl jsi / byla jsi; byl / byla; byli jsme; byli jste; byli
> Slovak: bol som / bola som; bol si / bola si; bol / bola; boli sme; boli ste; boli
> Polish: byłem / byłam; byłeś / byłaś; był / była; byliśmy; byliście; byli



But that's just how historically it evolved. Historically it is really the same form:
Slovak: zrobil som; zrobil si; zrobil; zrobili sme; zrobili ste; zrobili
old Polish: zrobił jeśm; zrobił jeś; zrobił jest; zrobili jesmy; zrobili jeście; zrobili są
which got contracted in modern Polish to one word: zrobiłem; zrobiłeś; zrobił; zrobiliśmy; zrobiliście; zrobili

But the ending still remains removable, as if it actually were a separate word, attached to the participle. So you could say "ty to zrobiłeś" but also "tyś to zrobił" or "toś ty zrobił", with no differencing in meaning (though emphasis is put on the word to which -ś is actually attached).


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## slavic_one

robin74 said:


> But that's just how historically it evolved. Historically it is really the same form:
> Slovak: zrobil som; zrobil si; zrobil; zrobili sme; zrobili ste; zrobili
> old Polish: zrobił jeśm; zrobił jeś; zrobił jest; zrobili jesmy; zrobili jeście; zrobili są
> which got contracted in modern Polish to one word: zrobiłem; zrobiłeś; zrobił; zrobiliśmy; zrobiliście; zrobili
> 
> But the ending still remains removable, as if it actually were a separate word, attached to the participle. So you could say "ty to zrobiłeś" but also "tyś to zrobił" or "toś ty zrobił", with no differencing in meaning (though emphasis is put on the word to which -ś is actually attached).



Yes I know that, we were discussing that topin in thread I started some time ago:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1144770


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## sokol

slavic_one said:


> As far as I know, all other Slavic lngs make perfect with auxiliary verb and main verb in past.
> Polish goes only with sufix.
> ...
> Polish: byłem / byłam; byłeś / byłaś; był / była; byliśmy; byliście; byli


Well, Russian too, only personal pronoun + participle is used but no auxiliary - and I guess Belorussian and Ukrainian too.
And in Czech the auxiliary is not used in third person - see this previous discussion on Czech auxiliary.

That just for clarification; apart from that you're of course right, Polish still stands out among Western Slavic


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## slavic_one

sokol said:


> Well, Russian too, only personal pronoun + participle is used but no auxiliary - and I guess Belorussian and Ukrainian too.
> And in Czech the auxiliary is not used in third person - see this previous discussion on Czech auxiliary.
> 
> That just for clarification; apart from that you're of course right, Polish still stands out among Western Slavic



Correct, Russian also don't use auxiliary (for Ukrainian and Belorusian don't know) and Czech and Slovak (as I write in examples) don't have it in 3rd persons, but still all of them have main verb in past without any sufixes or anything.
But there's no need to discuss that as we know how it function in each of those languages.


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## Diaspora

Does Slovak drop the auxilliary in third person like Czech?


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## Azori

Diaspora said:


> Does Slovak drop the auxilliary in third person like Czech?


Yes, in both singular and plural.


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## slavic_one

Diaspora said:
			
		

> Does Slovak drop the auxilliary in third person like Czech?


As I give in an example and said above your post.


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## robin74

One other minor comment on the 3rd person auxiliary verb - while Polish merged the auxiliary verb with the participle to form one word, you can actually still see it explicitly in the old-fashioned, but still sometimes used and commonly understood past perfect tense - "zrobił był". Here past tense of "być" used as an auxiliary verb is still present in all persons.


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## vianie

slavic_one said:


> - where Czech and Slovak has "h" Polish (like almost all other Slavic languages) has "g"


 
    Needless to say, the biggest "personero" of Slavic languages, which one use in plenty "h" is Ukrainian. 



slavic_one said:


> - Slovak has more words similar to Polish than Czech (to Polish)


 
    Nice remark, though I would rather say from my nearer point of view, it is fifty-fifty in the aggregate.
    A matter of course, this is not determining for Polish understandableness.
    (To boot, excellent Czecho-Slovak mutual intelligibility may help both of them to "wider" to perceive Slavic languages pan-domain.)



winpoj said:


> Slovak and Polish suffer from lacking "ř".


 

    Indeed, "ř" is Czech folk patrimony all the more national pride. 




sokol said:


> - Slovak has a great many diphtongs, as has Polish and Croatian plus Slovene dialects;


 

    Hm, really so much? 



sokol said:


> - Slovak has a dark back vowel where Czech (and generally all Slavic languages) haven't: "som" for example, vs. CZ "jsem" and PL "jestem" (Slovene "sem", BCS "sam" etc.; this feature of Slovak sounds quite exceptional to me and I've wondered if it could be due to Hungarian influence;


 
 Comfortably, it could be.




slavic_one said:


> Polish don't have ě, where in Slovak sometimes e is soft.


 
    Sorry slavic_one, however I do not understand which soft "e" you kept in view.



lior neith said:


> There's a "rhythmical shortening rule" (rytmické krátenie) in Slovak according to which there cannot be 2 long syllables in a row in one word. Diphtongs are regarded as long syllables as well (for example SK -biely, CZ -bílý). There are some exceptions, though.


 

    In a matter of fact, the exceptions are not so unusual.
_Niečie skália riešia líščie dianie vtáčích básní súdiac býčie siatie vôní pávích piesní. _
  Naturally, Czech words with three long syllables in a row in one word _(doznívání_ _zůstává) _are  unavailable in Slovak language.


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## Azori

vianie said:


> In a matter of fact, the exceptions are not so unusual.
> _Niečie skália riešia líščie dianie vtáčích básní súdiac býčie siatie vôní pávích piesní. _


Speaking of unusual exceptions, this sentence is a gross nonsense, hence not the best example. The exceptions to this rule apply mostly to case endings, some compound words and some words with particular prefixes and suffixes.


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## sokol

vianie said:


> sokol said:
> 
> 
> 
> - Slovak has a great many diphtongs, as has Polish and Croatian plus Slovene dialects;
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, really so much?
Click to expand...

Compared to Czech and Slovene standard plus BCS standard languages, yes it has. 
Slovene dialects however have both "ie/ei" and "uo/ou" diphtongs, and this indeed reminds me of Slovak diphtongs (with "ie" and "ô").
And some Croatian dialects (from Kajkavian group) are similarily rich in diphtongs.


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## vianie

lior neith said:


> Speaking of unusual exceptions, this sentence is a gross nonsense, hence not the best example.


 The examples are the particular words.
 Mass of these words is used conventionally.
 The surrealistic banter indeed may brought a ballast in here. 




sokol said:


> Compared to Czech and Slovene standard plus BCS standard languages, yes it has.


 It has, however compared to Polish almost not.


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## Mishe

sokol said:


> Compared to Czech and Slovene standard plus BCS standard languages, yes it has.
> Slovene dialects however have both "ie/ei" and "uo/ou" diphtongs, and this indeed reminds me of Slovak diphtongs (with "ie" and "ô").
> And some Croatian dialects (from Kajkavian group) are similarily rich in diphtongs.




Slovenian doesn't have diphthongs only in dialects, but also in the standard language. They can usually be found where the "l" is pronounced like "u", for example the past participle of verbs: delal (worked), where the final "l" is pronounced like "u", but it is pronounced together with a like a diphthong, so you have the final diphthong "au". 

Some other examples of Slovenian words with diphthongs: polž (a snail), volk (wolf), čoln (boat), polh (dormouse), etc.


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## werrr

*Phonetic differences between Czech and Slovak*

First of all, this comparison doesn’t apply for loanwords, interjections and onomatopoeic words. Czech sounds and words are highlighted in blue, the Slovak sounds and words in red.

Czech and Slovak experienced similar sound shifts for consonants, but different sound shifts for vowels. Thus Czech and Slovak words mostly share the same consonants, but the vowels differ frequently:

  sůl – soľ (salt)
  vejce – vajce (egg)
  město – mesto (town)

*Vowels*

Czech has relatively small set of vowels. There are only five vowels, every with short and long variant (in fact, the ó sound is extinct in words of Czech origin):

  a-á, e-é (ě), i-í (y-ý), o-ó, u-ú (ů)

and only one diphthong:

  ou

All the Czech vowels exist in Slovak too, but there are some additional:

  ä (about to extinct and to be replaced with e)

and diphthongs:

  ia, ie, iu, ô

The correspondence of Czech and Slovak vowels is as follows:

  a-á → a-á, ä, ia, e
  e-é → e-é-ie, a-á, o-ô
  o-ó → o-ó, ô, a-á
  u-ú → u-ú
  ou → u-ú, ou
  letter ě → e-ie, a, ä
  letter i-í → i-í, e-ie, ia, o, u-ú-iu
  letter y-ý → y-ý, i-í (in loanwords only), e-ie
  letter ů → o-ô-ó, u, a, ia, -ov

*Consonants*

As for the consonats there are only minor differences.

In Czech:

1) there is no ľ sound (ľ → l)
2) vocals l and r have only short variants (ŕ → r; ĺ → lou)
3) original Slavic g sound is extinct (g → k, zg → z, zk), only exceptionally k is assimilated to g sound (e.g. kdo /gdo/)
4) there is the exclusively Czech ř sound (ř → r)
5) ť and ň sound is less frequent at the end of the words (ť - > t, ť, ň -> n, ň; vlast × vlasť, pramen × prameň) 
6) j sound is more frequently added at the beginning or end of the word (jaký × aký, jistý × istý, jsem × som, umyj × umy)
7) f sound is used only in words cognate to doufat and zoufat
8) the c and č sounds have no voiced counterpart, except of rare examples of assimilation (léčba /lédžba/, leckdy /ledzgdy/). Dž sound is rare (džbán), dz sound is extinct (dz -> z).
9) glottal stop is extensively used to separate two following vowels and to separate the words starting with vowel from preceding word
10) syllabic consonants are less frequent, but unlike in Slovak they could be at the end of the word and even m could be syllabic (švagr × švagor, vítr × vietor,  metr × meter, sedm × sedem)

In Slovak:

1) there applies the rhytmic law
2) the letter v is pronounced as /ʊ/ at the end of closed syllables

*Alternation*

Not considering the Slovak rhytmic law, Czech and Slovak vowels alternate in quantity to the similar extent and mostly, by far not always, in the same words.

Czech vowels alternate commonly in quality (stůl – stolu, vejce – vajec).

Slovak, unlike Czech, tends to use optional vowels in all inflected and derived forms (lev – lva × lev – leva; lev – lvice × lev – levice).

When forming words, Czech and Slovak consonants undergo practically identical alternation (noha → nožka × noha → nôžka), but the alternation because of inflection is less frequent in Slovak (ruka – ruce × ruka – ruky; deska – desce × doska – doske).

*Assimilation*

Slovak always tends to use the regressive assimilation. Czech mostly tends to the regressive assimilation, but for the sh cluster it uses the progressive assimilation (albeit regressive assimilation is acceptable as Moravian variant) and it tends to use no assimilation in front of sonors (jsme /sme/ × sme /zme/).


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## werrr

vianie said:
			
		

> slavic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slovak has more words similar to Polish than Czech (to Polish)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice remark, though I would rather say from my nearer point of view, it is fifty-fifty in the aggregate.
Click to expand...


I think slavic_one is right. Slovak shares practically all its vocabulary of Slavic origin with some of the other Slavic languages, but in Czech there is relatively big set of exclusively Czech (or Czech and Upper Sorbian) words of Slavic origin. This makes Czech less intelligible, in terms of vocabulary,  than Slovak. On the other hand, this set is small in comparison with the set of words exclusive for Czech and Slovak.


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## winpoj

It's an impressive overview that you have provided, werrr.
Just a small point: I've always thought that the Slovak word for "brother" is "brat". Is "brator" an archaic version or something?


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## werrr

winpoj said:


> It's an impressive overview that you have provided, werrr.
> Just a small point: I've always thought that the Slovak word for "brother" is "brat".


Yes, it is.



> Is "brator" an archaic version or something?


Yes, it’s archaic (used mostly in religious context) and incommon in modern Slovak except of some Czech-Slovak border dialects.

You are right, I should choose examples common in modern Slovak. I took that example from a source on historical sound shifts which operated with ancient forms. Is it better now?


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## Azori

werrr said:


> ä (about to extinct and to be replaced with e)


*ä *is already pronounced like "e"


werrr said:


> deska – desce × deska – deske doska – doske


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## werrr

lior neith said:


> *ä *is already pronounced like "e"


Extinct or about to extinct, what a difference! 

Only some of the oldest generation pronounce it differently. That sound is predestined to disappear. Now, for most of the Slovaks it is only source of orthographic confusion. I think the natural next step should be replacing the letter ä with e.



> deska – desce × deska – deske doska – doske


Of course.


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## Encolpius

Diaspora said:


> So what are exactly the main differences between Czech, Slovak and Polish?



The prosody. 
The most important, to hardest to learn it and get rid of it, the least discussed and fewest linguistic studies about it.


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## silmeth

Azori said:


> For comparison, the same text in Polish, Czech and Slovak:



OK, I think the texts could be a little bit changed (and still would be totally understandable and would sound natural) so that Polish looks more like Czech and Slovak versions. With such longer texts it always heavily depends on the way the speaker forms sentences.

*Polish*

Zakupy

  Gdy czegoś potrzebujemy albo czegoś pragniemy i mamy  pieniądze, idziemy na zakupy. Na zakupy można pojechać autem albo  autobusem, czy pociągiem, w przypadku gdy mamy daleko*. Zakupy robimy w sklepie albo w centrum handlowym, ponieważ tam  jest więcej sklepów w jednym miejscu. Pieniądze to zwykle monety i  banknoty. Kiedy nie mamy pieniędzy, możemy spytać (się)** przyjaciela czy nam  pożyczy. Jeśli mamy więcej niż osiemnaście lat, możemy sobie kupić  polską wódkę i papierosy. Ale nie możemy sobie kupić marihuany, ponieważ handel  narkotykami jest w Polsce nielegalny.

* In case it is far [to the shop]. Previous Polish text said _In case the shop is *really near*_ (lit. _we have only piece of road to the shop_). That is absolutely not what Czech and Slovak texts say.
** It is very common to say _spytać się_ in Polish, however it is *considered incorrect* (correct form is without _się_, just _spytać_). This is however standard way of saying _to ask_ in Czech and Slovak (_zeptat se_, _spýtať sa_)

*Czech*

Nakupování

  Pokud něco potřebujeme nebo po něčem toužíme a máme peníze, jdeme  nakupovat. Na nákupy se dá jet autem, nebo autobusem, či vlakem, v  případě že to máme daleko. Nakupujeme v obchodě, nebo v obchodním  středisku, protože tam je více obchodů na jednom místě. Peníze jsou  obvykle mince a bankovky. Když nemáme peníze, můžeme se zeptat kamaráda,  jestli nám půjčí. Jestli máme více než osmnáct let, můžeme si koupit  polskou vodku a cigarety. Ale nemůžeme si koupit marihuanu, protože  obchod s drogami je v Polsku nelegální.

*Slovak*

Nakupovanie

Pokiaľ niečo potrebujeme alebo po niečom túžime a máme peniaze, ideme  nakupovať. Na nákupy sa dá ísť autom, alebo autobusom, či vlakom, v  prípade že to máme ďaleko. Nakupujeme v obchode, alebo v obchodnom  stredisku, pretože tam je viac obchodov na jednom mieste. Peniaze sú  obvykle mince a bankovky. Keď nemáme peniaze, môžeme sa spýtať kamaráta,  či nám požičia. Pokiaľ máme viac než osemnásť rokov, môžeme si kúpiť  poľskú vodku a cigarety. Ale nemôžeme si kúpiť marihuanu, pretože obchod  s drogami je v Poľsku nelegálny.


Polish is still much more different from the other two languages than they are from each other. However I think Polish and Slovak texts are somehow mutualy intelligible and pretty similar.


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## bibax

> Zakupy
> 
> Gdy czegoś potrzebujemy albo czegoś pragniemy i mamy pieniądze, idziemy na zakupy. Na zakupy można pojechać autem albo autobusem, czy pociągiem, w przypadku gdy mamy daleko*. Zakupy robimy w sklepie albo w centrum handlowym, ponieważ tam jest więcej sklepów w jednym miejscu. Pieniądze to zwykle monety i banknoty. Kiedy nie mamy pieniędzy, możemy spytać (się)** przyjaciela czy nam pożyczy. Jeśli mamy więcej niż osiemnaście lat, możemy sobie kupić polską wódkę i papierosy. Ale nie możemy sobie kupić marihuany, ponieważ handel narkotykami jest w Polsce nielegalny.


Nákupy

Když čehos potřebujeme bo po čemsi prahneme a máme peníze, jdeme na nákupy. Na nákupy možno jechat autem bo autobusem, či vlakem (potah, FF) v případku, kdy to máme daleko. Nákupy robíme v obchodě (sklep, FF) bo v centru obchodním (handl = obchod i v češtině), poněvadž tam jest více sklepův v jednom místě. Peníze to (jsou) obvykle mince a bankovky. Když nemáme peníze, můžeme se zeptat přítele či nám požitčí (půjčiti < požitčiti). Jestli máme více než osmnáct let, můžeme sobě koupit polskou vodku i cigarety (papirosy). Ale nemůžeme sobě koupit marihuany, poněvadž obchod (handl) narkotiky jest v Polště nelegální.

The modified Polish text is nearly fully understandable for the Czechs. There are two notorious false friends (potah ~ vlak, sklep ~ obchod) in the text.


----------



## Encolpius

bibax said:


> Nákupy
> 
> Když čehos potřebujeme bo po čemsi prahneme a máme peníze, jdeme na nákupy. Na nákupy možno jechat autem bo autobusem, či vlakem (potah, FF) v případku, kdy to máme daleko. Nákupy robíme v obchodě (sklep, FF) bo v centru obchodním (handl = obchod i v češtině), poněvadž tam jest více sklepův v jednom místě. Peníze to (jsou) obvykle mince a bankovky. Když nemáme peníze, můžeme se zeptat přítele či nám požitčí (půjčiti < požitčiti). Jestli máme více než osmnáct let, můžeme sobě koupit polskou vodku i cigarety (papirosy). Ale nemůžeme sobě koupit marihuany, poněvadž obchod (handl) narkotiky jest v Polště nelegální.
> 
> The modified Polish text is nearly fully understandable for the Czechs. There are two notorious false friends (potah ~ vlak, sklep ~ obchod) in the text.



 What kind of Czech is that?


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## silmeth

Bibax, your text definitely doesn’t sound natural (those _čehos_, _čemsi_, _jest_, _bo_… not actually commonly used in Czech anymore as I believe). Of course it nicely shows that my version of Polish would be understandable for Czechs but it doesn’t show how similar or different these two languages are. My point when changing Polish text (and slightly Czech one) was to show natural sounding version, that would be similar and more comparable.

My idea is that you need texts in related languages written in similar manner, using similar words and constructions, if available in all compared languages and in common use and with similar meaning. Otherwise, if you write text in one of those languages in different style, you can show that this language is totally different, where it actually isn’t – one could, writing two texts with same meaning but using two different styles, prove that Polish and Polish are two totally different and not understandable languages. That was my point in changing the text.

Another thing is that, in my opinion, the most similar language to Polish is not even West Slavic. IMO the most understandable language without learning for Poles is… *Belorusian*. Although it is East Slavic, it has enormous amount of polonisms, in vocabulary, in grammar and phonology is quite similar to Polish.


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## bibax

> What kind of Czech is that?


It is a hypothetical text written by a Pole learning Czech (in fact I quickly edited the silmeth's Polish text). The text doesn't sound natural but it is grammatically correct and all words are used in Czech (frequency is another question). Even the word papirosa exists in Czech (however it is a special kind of the cigarettes, with a long embouchure, popular in the former USSR). Cosi, čehosi, čemusi, ... (cos, čehos, čemus) is common, robit and bo are used in the Ostrava region (and popularized in Nohavica's songs).


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## vianie

It is natural that Poles have the worst position in the ability of _mutual understanding_ amongst the West Slavs as Polish contains not a small number of features that occur only in Czech or only in Slovak. Not to mention the numbers of speakers.


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## kalwi

vianie said:


> slavic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> where Czech and Slovak has "h" Polish (like almost all other Slavic languages) has "g" (ok not in all cases, but mainly - ethimologically, CZ and SK "h" is other's "g")
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say, the biggest "personero" of Slavic languages, which one use in plenty "h" is Ukrainian.
Click to expand...


Little bit off topic: 'h' in Ukrainian (as well as 'g' in Russian) is used on ALL places where 'g' or 'h' is used in other languages. Unlike in Czech/Slovak, where these letters are strictly distinguished and can't be mutually interchangeable in both write or pronunciation (like it is for example in Russian spoken by Ukrainians, where 'g' is pronunciated as 'h', e.g. _Gagarin – Haharin_).

Very expressive example is the word _hygiene_, which though is not a Slavic word, but it demonstrates the differences well. Notice also _i/y_ in Czech/Slovak, where these letters have the same pronunciation but different grammar vs. Polish/Ukrainian/Russian:
Czech/Slovak: _hygiena_
Polish: _higiena_
Ukrainian: _hihiena
_Russian: _gigiena_



bibax said:


> Nákupy
> 
> Když čehos potřebujeme bo po čemsi prahneme a máme peníze, jdeme na nákupy. Na nákupy možno jechat autem bo autobusem, či vlakem (potah, FF) v případku, kdy to máme daleko. Nákupy robíme v obchodě (sklep, FF) bo v centru obchodním (handl = obchod i v češtině), poněvadž tam jest více sklepův v jednom místě. Peníze to (jsou) obvykle mince a bankovky. Když nemáme peníze, můžeme se zeptat přítele či nám požitčí (půjčiti < požitčiti). Jestli máme více než osmnáct let, můžeme sobě koupit polskou vodku i cigarety (papirosy). Ale nemůžeme sobě koupit marihuany, poněvadž obchod (handl) narkotiky jest v Polště nelegální.




My very subjective perception of Polish (as being Czech having only minimal knowledge of Polish) in comparison to Czech/Slovak is that written Polish looks quite anciently in a lot of aspects and it reminds old texts written in mid-age Czech:
- compounds (_rz, dz..._) and usage of 'w' instead 'v',
- words/word endings (_jest, -ie_...) and word order (as demonstrated in the example above of Polish text modified into Czech),
While pronunciation doesn't sound ancientally, it just uses "too much" of sibilants (_ć/cz, dź/dż, ś/sz, ź/ż – č, dž, š, ž_), so Polish sounds very brigh and "ringing".

There is also a lot of words which sound similar, but have opposite or completely different meaning in Polish vs Czech/Slovak, so some Polish sentences sound very funny for Czechs/Slovaks and vice versa. For example Remarque's novel _All Quiet on the Western Front_ (in Czech _Na západní frontě klid_) can be freely translated to Polish as _Na zachodzie nie ma nowin_, which means _There is no (news)paper in the toilet room_. But this is just a Czech joke which demonstrates this fact in its extremes, the correct and official Polish translation is _Na Zachodzie bez zmian_, which still means freely _No changes while being in the toilet room_  I also noticed a thread in some other Polish forum with funny translations of Czech sentences into Polish.


----------



## Ben Jamin

It seems that nobody has mentioned yet the major phonetic difference between Czech/Slovak and Polish: Czech and Slovak distinguish between long and short vowels while Polish does not. The stress in Polish is almost always at the penultimate syllable, unlike in Czech and Slovak.


----------



## elroy

Ben Jamin said:


> The stress in Polish is almost always at the penultimate syllable


 As far as I know.  

(That’s why “*dob*ra” + “noc” = “do*bra*noc” but “*dob*ry” + “wieczór” = “*dob*ry wieczór.”)

And in Czech stress is always on the *first* syllable — as far as I know.

I don’t know about Slovak.


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## jasio

elroy said:


> (That’s why “*dob*ra” + “noc” = “do*bra*noc” but “*dob*ry” + “wieczór” = “*dob*ry wieczór.”)


Actually:

“*dob*ry” + “*wie*czór” = “*dob*ry *wie*czór.”

But indeed, dobranoc is one word, while dobry wieczór are two, hence the difference.

Anyway, Ben Jamin was correct: the accent is on the penultimate syllable only most of the time, not always. Although more and more people use a regular accent rather than the correct one, so the rule may change in future, there are classes of words which are accented on the third or even the forth last syllable, like je*cha*liśmy or je*cha*libyśmy.


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## elroy

jasio said:


> dobranoc is one word, while dobry wieczór are two, hence the difference.


 Yes, that was my point! 


jasio said:


> “*dob*ry” + “*wie*czór” = “*dob*ry *wie*czór.”


 Yes.  I didn’t indicate the stress in “wieczór” because it wasn’t relevant to my point.


jasio said:


> there are classes of words which are accented on the third or even the forth last syllable, like je*cha*liśmy or je*cha*libyśmy.


 I was taught that stress was _always_ penultimate.  Looks like this is one of those oversimplified rules foreigners are taught!


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## jasio

elroy said:


> I was taught that stress was _always_ penultimate.  Looks like this is one of those oversimplified rules foreigners are taught!


Most of the cases it's true anyway. Besides, as I stated earlier, many people, especially in the younger generation, at least in some cases use a regular, penultimate accent instead of the correct accent on another syllable.

Among exceptions from regular accents are:

names of sciences, and a handful of other words loaned from Latin (mate*ma*tyka, *fi*zyka, cyber*ne*tyka, *pre*zydent, etc)
the words which had originally been compound words, like *czte*rysta (*czte*ry sta = four hundred), *o*siemset (*o*siem set = eight hundred)
past tense plural forms, *by*liśmy, *je*dliśmy, ro*bi*liśmy - actually, it's a variant of the above: the past tense in Polish used to be compound, very much like in modern Czech and Slovak: *je*dli jsme (CZ), *je*dli sme (SK), *je*dli (że)śmy (old PL), *jed*liśmy (modern PL) = _we ate_.
The second word in each pair is an auxiliary verb, a special inflected form of "to be", and the main verb is the plural past participle - though I'm not sure how its called in the respective grammars (for a reason, I've never seen this form being actually called "past participle" in the Polish grammar, neither in plural or in the singular, albeit this verb form is still used in several constructs, like compound future tense). The auxiliary verb could have been located as a post-position, pre-position, or somewhere else in the sentence - which later resulted in a concept of a "movable suffix", which was most often attached directly to the main verb, but which could occasionally be moved and attached to some other words for stylistic or emphatic reasons. I have an impression that this mobility decreases and nowadays is used less often that before. If this is really the case, perhaps this is what justifies also a shift of the accent from the correct form *jed*liśmy to a regular *jed*liś*my, because the inflected verbs are treated accent-wise as whole words rather than as loosely connected pieces.
conditional plural forms, *by*libyśmy, *jed*libyśmy, ro*bi*libyśmy - likewise, except that another particle "by" was used between the main verb and the auxiliary verb
conditional singular forms, *zro*biłbym, *je*chałbym - likewise.
acronyms - in some cases are accented on the last syllable (like ONZ - pronounced: o-en-*zet*)
some words loaned from French (foyer, _tournée, café_) still retained their original, oxitonic accent
one-syllable nouns with some prefixes, like arcy-, eks-, wice-, which do not have their own accents (like eks*mąż*) are accented on the last syllable
some combinations of one-syllable words are treated accent-wise as entities, "*dla* mnie", "*on* jest", thus a one-syllable word can occasionally receive an accent as well.


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## studencik

Sometimes there occur words in Slovak that are colser to Polish than to Czech. Comparison:

*SLK:* nie, robiť, teraz, do videnia, slivka, jeseň, pivnica, zemiak, bocian, kto, nebezpečenstvo, ktorý
*PL:* nie, robić, teraz, do widzenia, śliwka, jesień, piwnica, ziemniak, bocian, kto, niebezpieczeństwo, który
*CZ:* ne, dělat, teď , na shledanou, švestka, podzim, sklep, brambor, čáp, kdo, nebezpečí, který

As well as there are words in Czech that are closer to Polish than Slovak:

*CZ: *mluvit, slyšet, čtvrtek, zapomenout, želva, století, listopad, grzbiet, veverka
*PL: *mówić, słyszeć, czwartek, zapomnieć, żółw, stulecie, listopad, hřbet, wiewiórka
*SLK: *hovoriť, čuť, štvrtok , zabudnúť, korytnačka, storočí, november, hrebeň, veverička


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## Ben Jamin

studencik said:


> Sometimes there occur words in Slovak that are colser to Polish than to Czech. Comparison:
> 
> *SLK:* nie, robiť, teraz, do videnia, slivka, jeseň, pivnica, zemiak, bocian, kto, nebezpečenstvo, ktorý
> *PL:* nie, robić, teraz, do widzenia, śliwka, jesień, piwnica, ziemniak, bocian, kto, niebezpieczeństwo, który
> *CZ:* ne, dělat, teď , na shledanou, švestka, podzim, sklep, brambor, čáp, kdo, nebezpečí, který
> 
> As well as there are words in Czech that are closer to Polish than Slovak:
> 
> *CZ: *mluvit, slyšet, čtvrtek, zapomenout, želva, století, listopad, grzbiet, veverka
> *PL: *mówić, słyszeć, czwartek, zapomnieć, żółw, stulecie, listopad, hřbet, wiewiórka
> *SLK: *hovoriť, čuť, štvrtok , zabudnúť, korytnačka, storočí, november, hrebeň, veverička


I have met many Poles saying that Slovak is easier for them to understand than Czech. I have also the same impression, but I haven't analyzed if the reason of thise greater comprehension is phonetic, lexical, or grammatical.


----------



## Ben Jamin

jasio said:


> Most of the cases it's true anyway. Besides, as I stated earlier, many people, especially in the younger generation, at least in some cases use a regular, penultimate accent instead of the correct accent on another syllable.
> 
> Among exceptions from regular accents are:
> 
> names of sciences, and a handful of other words loaned from Latin (mate*ma*tyka, *fi*zyka, cyber*ne*tyka, *pre*zydent, etc)
> the words which had originally been compound words, like *czte*rysta (*czte*ry sta = four hundred), *o*siemset (*o*siem set = eight hundred)


I believe that this irregular stress on antepenultimate syllable in loaned words is going to disappear despite the efforts of proscriptive grammarians. I tend to pronounce these words "correctly" only if the word in question is in a stressed position in the sentence. Elsewhere I pronunce them "incorrectly". The Polish language changes continuously, and normalization of the stress is natural in a language with fixed stress as a norm.


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## studencik

Ben Jamin said:


> I have met many Poles saying that Slovak is easier for them to understand than Czech. I have also the same impression, but I haven't analyzed if the reason of thise greater comprehension is phonetic, lexical, or grammatical.



Mostly lexis and phonetics. Lexis because Slovak has more words familiar to Poles, and phonetics because Slovak pronunciation/accent is softer than Czech, thus much more pleasant to the Polish ears (Polish went through the process of palatalization). When it comes to grammar, I believe Czech seems more familiar.


----------



## Nikined

Are there similar words with opposite meanings in those languages, especially in Czech and Slovak? Like "zapomenout" in Czech (to forget) and "zapomnitj" in Russian (to remember)?


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## vianie

Nikined said:


> Are there similar words with opposite meanings in those languages, especially in Czech and Slovak? Like "zapomenout" in Czech (to forget) and "zapomnitj" in Russian (to remember)?


There aren't any between Czech and Slovak I would say. But Polish has got one I can think of. Search for "czerstwy" in the WR searching bar.


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## studencik

vianie said:


> There aren't any between Czech and Slovak I would say. But Polish has got one I can think of. Search for "czerstwy" in the WR searching bar.



Czech _pivnice_ ("brasserie") and Slovak _pivnica_ ("cellar" or "basement") is the only one that comes to mind.

Polish-Czech list of false friends, however, is huge:

*CZ:* _nápad_ ("idea") *PL:* _napad_ ("attack")
*CZ:* _čerstvý_ ("fresh") *PL:* _czerstwy_ ("stale")
*CZ:* _dívka_ ("girl") *PL:* _dziwka_ ("whore")
*CZ:* _jahoda_ ("strawberry") *PL:* _jagoda_ ("blueberry")
*CZ:* _záchod_ ("toilet") *PL:* _zachód_ ("West")
*CZ:* květen ("May") *PL:* _kwiecień _("April")
*CZ:* _sklep_ ("basement") *PL:* _sklep_ ("shop"/"store")
*CZ:* _pivnice_ ("brasserie") *PL:* _piwnica_ ("basement")
*CZ:* _zápach_ ("reek"/"odor") *PL:* _zapach_ ("smell")
*CZ:* _nepřítomný_ ("absent") *PL:* _nieprzytomny_ ("unconscious")
*CZ:* _obecný_ ("general"/"common") *PL:* _obecny_ ("present"/"current")
*CZ:* _šukat_ ("to fuck") *PL:* _szukać_ ("to look for")
*CZ:* _konečně_ ("finally") *PL:* _koniecznie_ ("necessarily")
*CZ:* _chudý_ ("poor") *PL:* _chudy_ ("thin")
*CZ:* _křeslo_ ("armchair") *PL:* _krzesło_ ("chair")
*CZ:* _postel_ ("bed") *PL:* _pościel_ ("bedding")
*CZ:* _milost_ ("grace") *PL:* _miłość_ ("love")
*CZ:* _láska_ ("love") *PL:* _łaska_ ("grace"), _laska_ ("stick"/"rod")
*CZ:* _ostatní_ ("other") *PL:* _ostatni_ ("last")
*CZ:* _palec_ ("thumb") *PL:* _palec_ ("finger")
*CZ:* _skutečný_ ("real") *PL:* _skuteczny_ ("effective")
*CZ:* _plyn_ ("gas") *PL:* _płyn_ ("liquid")
*CZ:* _divadlo_ ("theatre") *PL:* _dziwadło_ ("freak")
*CZ:* _náboženství_ ("religion") *PL:* _nabożeństwo_ ("church service")
*CZ:* _zákon_ ("law") *PL:* _zakon_ ("order"/"monastery")
*CZ:* _bezcenný_ ("worthless") *PL:* _bezcenny_ ("priceless")
*CZ:* _společný_ ("common") *PL:* _społeczny_ ("social")
*CZ:* _pevnost_ ("fortress") *PL:* _pewność_ ("confidence")
*CZ:* _nebeský_ ("heavenly") *PL:* _niebieski_ ("blue")
*CZ:* _platnost_ ("validity") *PL:* _płatność_ ("payment")
*CZ:* _nástroj_ ("instrument") *PL:* _nastrój_ ("mood")
*CZ:* _odbyt_ ("sales") *PL:* _odbyt_ ("anus")
*CZ:* _upřímný_ ("honest") *PL:* _uprzejmy_ ("polite"/"kind")
*CZ:* _příprava_ ("preparation") *PL:* _przyprawa_ ("spice")
*CZ:* _válka_ ("war") *PL:* _walka_ ("fight"/"battle")
*CZ:* _chyba_ ("mistake"/"error") *PL:* _chyba_ ("maybe"/"perhaps")
*CZ:* _dluhopis_ ("obligation") *PL:* _długopis_ ("pen")
*CZ:* _důstojník_ ("officer") *PL:* _dostojnik_ ("dignitary")
*CZ:* _panna_ ("virgin") *PL:* _panna_ ("unmarried woman"/"miss")
*CZ:* _zboží_ ("goods") *PL:* _zboże_ ("grain"/"cereal")
*CZ:* _žaloba_ ("complaint"/"lawsuit") *PL:* _żałoba_ ("mourning")
*CZ:* _ovád_ ("horsefly") *PL:* _owad_ ("insect")
*CZ:* _zastávka_ ("bus stop") *PL:* _zastawka_ ("valve")
*CZ:* _uniknout_ ("escape") *PL:* _uniknąć_ ("avoid")
*CZ:* _dřevo_ ("wood") *PL:* _drzewo_ ("tree")
*CZ:* _frajer_ ("cool guy") *PL:* _frajer_ ("sucker")

I'm really amazed and curious what caused such mix-up.


----------



## Ben Jamin

studencik said:


> I would like to comment on some of these lines:
> 
> *CZ:* květen ("May") *PL:* _kwiecień _("April")


Thes two actually are neighbouring months, so the disparity is not bi


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _obecný_ ("general"/"common") *PL:* _obecny_ ("present"/"current")


These two actually overlap in common/current area.


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _chudý_ ("poor") *PL:* _chudy_ ("thin")


Poor people were once usually thin of malnutrition


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _křeslo_ ("armchair") *PL:* _krzesło_ ("chair")





studencik said:


> *CZ:* _postel_ ("bed") *PL:* _pościel_ ("bedding")                                                            *CZ:* _milost_ ("grace") *PL:* _miłość_ ("love")


Not very far from each other


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _zákon_ ("law") *PL:* _zakon_ ("order"/"monastery")


There is a common root meaning. Moreover: zakon (organization) is not monastery (building).


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _nebeský_ ("heavenly") *PL:* _niebieski_ ("blue")


"Niebieski" can also mean "heavenly" in Polish (ciało niebieskie


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _válka_ ("war") *PL:* _walka_ ("fight"/"battle")


A very close meaning


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _dluhopis_ ("obligation") *PL:* _długopis_ ("pen")


_długopis_  is a specific kind of pen: ball pen


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _uniknout_ ("escape") *PL:* _uniknąć_ ("avoid")


The meaning overlap here.


studencik said:


> *CZ:* _dřevo_ ("wood") *PL:* _drzewo_ ("tree")


Drzewo is much used in Polish in the meaning "wood" (material).

So, you can see, the discrepancies are much lesser than the list would suggest.


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## Nikined

Ben Jamin said:


> Thes two actually are neighbouring months, so the disparity is not


effectively it's huge, because the date would be wrong regardless of whether the months are neighbouring or not


----------



## vianie

Nonetheless, if I'm counting correctly, we have two or three false friends whose current meanings are opposite (the ones that are literally antonyms) so far: czerstwy / čerstvý , zapach / zápach and (..?) frajer.


----------



## studencik

Some of Polish phrases in comparision to Czech and Slovak (correct me if I wrote something wrong):

*PL:* Wiem, że nic nie wiem.
*CZ:* Vím, že nic nevím.
*SLK:* Viem, že nič neviem.
(_I know that I know nothing._)

*PL:* A co się tyczy ciebie, Homerze, niczego się nie bój.
*CZ:* A co se týče tebe, Homere, ničeho se neboj.
*SLK: *A čo sa týka teba, Homer, ničoho sa neboj.
(_And as for you, Homer, don't be afraid._)

*PL: *Jak długo muszę jeszcze czekać?
*CZ: *Jak dlouho musím ještě čekat?
*SLK: *Ako dlho musím ešte čakať?
(_How long must I wait?_)

*PL:* Moje córki były takie małe.
*CZ:* Moje dcery byly tak malé.
*SLK: *Moje dcéry boli také malé.
(_My daughters were so small._)

*PL:* Jedliśmy biały chleb.
*CZ:* Jedli jsme bílý chléb.
*SLK: *Jedli sme biely chlieb.
(_We ate white bread._)

*PL:* Chcę ci podziękować.
*CZ: *Chci ti poděkovat.
*SLK: *Chcem sa ti poďakovať.
(_I want to thank you._)

*PL: *Będę tego potrzebował.
*CZ: *Budu to potřebovat.
*SLK: *Budem to potrebovať.
(_I will need it._)

*PL: *Czesi są najlepszymi hokeistami na świecie.
*CZ: *Češi jsou nejlepší hokejisté na světě.
*SLK: *Česi sú najlepší hokejisti na svete.
(_Czechs are the best hockey players in the world._)

*PL: *Witaj, sąsiedzie!
*CZ: *Vítej, sousede!
*SLK: *Vitaj, suseda!
(_Welcome, neighbour!_)

*PL:* Jak się masz, przyjacielu?
*CZ:* Jak se máš, příteli?
*SLK: *Ako sa máš, môj priateľ?
(_How are you, friend?_)

*PL:* Panie, naucz nas modlić się.
*CZ:* Pane, nauč nás modlit se.
*SLK: *Pane, nauč nás modliť sa.
(_Lord_, _teach us to pray._)

*PL:* Znam cię doskonale, lepiej niż ty sam siebie.
*CZ:* Znám tě dokonale, lépe než ty sám sebe.
*SLK: *Poznám ťa dokonale, lepšie ako sám seba.
(_I know you perfectly, better than you know yourself._)

*PL:* Cicho bądź!
*CZ:* Ticho buď!
*SLK: *Buď ticho!
(_Be quiet!_)

*PL:* Nigdy nie wracaj!
*CZ:* Nikdy se nevracej!
*SLK: *Nikdy sa nevracaj!
(_Never come back!_)

*PL:* Nie mam na to czasu.
*CZ:* Nemám na to čas.
*SLK: *Nemám na to čas.
(_I don't have time for this._)

*PL:* Na zdrowie!
*CZ:* Na zdraví!
*SLK: *Na zdravie!
(_Cheers!_)

*PL:* Boże, co się dzieje?
*CZ:* Bože, co se to děje?
*SLK: *Bože, čo sa to deje?
(_God, what's happening?_)

*PL:* Nie dotykaj tego! Myślę, że to niebezpieczne!
*CZ:* Nedotýkej se toho! Myslím, že je to nebezpečné!
*SLK:* Nedotýkaj sa toho! Myslím, že je to nebezpečné!
(_Don't touch this! I think it's dangerous!_)

*PL:* Chłopcze, przestań krzyczeć! Bolą mnie uszy!
*CZ:* Chlapče, přestaň křičet! Bolí mě uši!
*SLK:* Chlapče, prestaň kričať! Bolí ma uši!
(_Boy, stop yelling! My ears are hurting!_)

*PL:* To szaleństwo!
*CZ:* To je šílenství!
*SLK: *To je šialenstvo!
(_This is madness!_)

*PL:* Widzę, ale nie rozumiem.
*CZ:* Vidím, ale nerozumím.
*SLK:* Vidím, ale nerozumiem.
(_I see but I don't understand._)

*PL:* Boję się, że go stracę.
*CZ:* Bojím se, že ho ztratím.
*SLK:* Bojím sa, že ho stratím.
(_I'm afraid to lose him._)

*PL:* Na szczęście mam tylko jednego psa, ale szczeka dość często.
*CZ:* Naštěstí mám jen jednoho psa, ale ten štěká docela často.
*SLK:* Našťastie mám len jedného psa, ale ten šteká celkom často.
(_Fortunately, I have only one dog, but he barks quite often._)


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## vianie

studencik said:


> *PL:* Jak się masz, przyjacielu?
> *CZ:* Jak se máš, příteli?
> *SLK: *Ako sa máš, môj priateľ? *Also colloquially - Jak sa máš, priateľu / priateľko?*
> (_How are you, friend?_)





studencik said:


> *PL:* Chłopcze, przestań krzyczeć! Bolą mnie uszy!
> *CZ:* Chlapče, přestaň křičet! Bolí mě uši!
> *SLK:* Chlapče, prestaň kričať! *Bolí* ma uši! *3rd person pl. of bolieť is bolia*
> (_Boy, stop yelling! My ears are hurting!_)


----------



## Włoskipolak 72

​*Origin of Polish and Czech*

To better understand how Polish and Czech relate to each other, it is worth exploring the history of how they originated. These two Slavic languages come from the Proto-Indo-European language, an extinct language that existed many centuries BC in Central Europe and Central Asia. In fact, most European languages as we know them today originate from the Proto-Indo-European language.






However, as a result of tribe migrations, this language started to evolve and divide itself into various dialects and later into separate languages. This is how the Slavic language group came to be and divided into three subgroups: West Slavic, East Slavic, and South Slavic language.

Furthermore, the West Slavic languages divided into three subgroups: Czech-Slovak, Lechitic, and Sorbian. The Czech language belongs to the Czech-Slovak subgroup together with Slovak 

*How Polish and Czech influenced each other*

The Polish and Czech languages developed in parallel. It is said that the Czech language developed in speech from the 10th century, but its first scriptures date back to the 13th century. For Polish, the first scriptures date back to the 9th century. Although it may seem that the Polish language influenced the development of the Czech language, it was actually the other way around.

The similarities in the vocabulary of these two languages come mostly from historical events. To start with, Poland adopted Christianity through the Czech Republic in the year 966, when the first Polish King - Mieszko I - married a Czech woman called Dobrawa (Doubravka in Czech) from the Přemyslid dynasty.

Apart from Christianity, this international union also introduced new vocabulary into the Polish language. This is why many words in Polish originate from the Czech language, such as Polish “kościół”, which comes from the Czech “kostel” and means “a church”.

Later on, in the Middle Ages, the Czech language became very popular in Poland. Almost everyone who belonged to an intellectual circle spoke Czech. This created a fashion for the Czech language, which originated in many lexical changes in the Polish language.

For example, Polish words that contain the particle “ra” or “ła” between the consonants, such as “brama” (gate) or “błagać” (to beg), typically originate from the Czech language.

*Are Polish and Czech Mutually Intelligible?*

When two languages are mutually intelligible, it essentially means that the speakers of one language can easily understand the other language without the need to learn to speak it.

Although Polish and Czech belong to the same subgroup of Slavic languages and share many similarities, they are not mutually intelligible. Linguists claim Czech’s oral intelligibility with Polish is only 36% and written intelligibility 46%.

However, Poles and Czechs are able to learn to understand each other’s language exceptionally quickly based on how much exposure to that language they are experiencing.

This is why many Polish people who live close to the border with the Czech Republic can easily understand Czechs and vice versa.

Are Polish and Czech Similar or really Different?


----------



## Ben Jamin

Skąd pochodzą te teksty polskie z 9 wieku, i gdzie można je znaleźć? Dotychczas przyjmowano, że najstarsze zapisane zdanie po polsku to "daj ać ja pobruczę ...." z  13 wieku. Jakieś nowe znaleziska? To byłaby sensacja.


----------



## jasio

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> The similarities in the vocabulary of these two languages come mostly from historical events.


The first of which is that until some 12-13th century (according to some sources - even longer) both languages were mutually intelligible, if not virtually identical. 

BTW - The state, social structure, ethnic identity, etnolects, etc. of the period were completely different than today, so it's pretty risky to use the modern terms do describe them - and can be extremely misleading. Poland as a state is generally recognized since the Mieszko baptism, even though from political standpoint it had already existed 2-3 generations earlier - so the people from various Slavic tribes living under his rule - some of them conquered and being sold through Prague to Arabs as slaves, most of them still pagans for few generations more - turned to be Poles overnight? And started speaking Polish in place of their dialects? It does not make much sense.  



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> To start with, Poland adopted Christianity through the Czech Republic in the year 966,


Ehm... at the time the Czech Republic did not exist even in the millennial plans. Duchy of Poland - whatever we mean by the term, see above - adopted Christianity through the Duchy of Bohemia. 



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> when the first Polish King - Mieszko I


Duke. Mieszko was the ruler, but he has never been crowned as a king. Only his son, Bolesław, received the royal crown shortly before his death.  



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> married a Czech woman called Dobrawa (Doubravka in Czech) from the Přemyslid dynasty.


She was not a random woman. She was a daughter of the Duke Boleslaus I the Cruel of Bohemia. 



Włoskipolak 72 said:


> Later on, in the Middle Ages,


966 and around are also considered the Middle Ages. 

BTW - the Middle Ages is a very imprecise term, as it spans through more than a thousand years. At the beginning there was no trace of the Slavic people, at the end - we have a whole bunch of well established Slavic kingdoms and duchies - with the Germans (whatever we can understand by the term, see above) ruling quite a big area of the former Slavic and Baltic territories and populations, east of the Elbe river, through to the area of Tallinn, if I remember correctly.


----------



## studencik

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> For Polish, the first scriptures date back to the 9th century.


Source to that?



> Later on, in the Middle Ages, the Czech language became very popular in Poland. Almost everyone who belonged to an intellectual circle spoke Czech.


If Czech was that popular in Poland I'm surprised they drifted apart to the point of not being mutually intelligible anymore. Last time Czech was that popular was in 18th century, so only 300+ years?



> This created a fashion for the Czech language, which originated in many lexical changes in the Polish language.





> For example, Polish words that contain the particle “ra” or “ła” between the consonants, such as “brama” (gate) or “błagać” (to beg), typically originate from the Czech language.


Let me provide more examples of Czech infulunce of Polish:

*PL:*_ czerwony_ *Old PL:* _czerwiony_ ("red")
*PL: *_wesele _*Old PL: *_wiesiele_ ("wedding reception")
*PL: *_hańba_ *Old PL: *_gańba _("disgrace")
*PL: *_brama_ *Old PL:* _brona _("gate")
*PL:* _smutny_ *Old PL:* _smętny_ ("sad")
*PL:* _serce_ *Old PL:* _sierce_ ("heart")
*PL:* _obywatel_ *Old PL:* _obywaciel_ ("citizen")
*PL:* _własny_ *Old PL:* _włosny_ ("own")
*PL:* _jedyny_ *Old PL:* _jedziny_ ("the only")
*PL:* _rzetelny_ *Old PL:* _rzecielny_ ("reliable")
*PL:* _śmiertelny_ *Old PL:* _śmiercielny_ ("mortal"/lethal")
*PL:* _obecny_ *Old PL:* _obiecny_ ("present"/"current")
*PL:* _swoboda_ *Old PL:* _świeboda_ ("freedom"/"liberty")
*PL:* _Wacław_ *Old PL:* _Więcław_ (Wenceslaus)



> Although Polish and Czech belong to the same subgroup of Slavic languages and share many similarities, they are not mutually intelligible. Linguists claim Czech’s oral intelligibility with Polish is only 36% and written intelligibility 46%.


That's surprising. I'd thought that written intelligibility is even more higher. Btw, if a Pole and a Czech spoke in their languages using basic words and sentences, I'm pretty sure they could understand each other. Literary and colloquial language are two different things.

There are many Czech words/verbs/adjectives/sentences that sound archaic to Poles, but we can still recognize them (thanks to the old literature and scripts). Examples:

*CZ:* _říci_ *PL:* _rzec_ ("to say") - still in use in literary language. Nowadays we use _powiedzieć._
*CZ:* _jenom_ *PL:* _jeno_ ("only") - this word appears in one verse of our anthem (_Słuchaj jeno bo to nasi biją w tarabany_). Nowadays we use _tylko._
*CZ:* _protože_ *PL:* _przeto że_ - the word _przecież_ ("yet"/"though") is somewhat related to this word. Nowadays we use _dlatego_ or _ponieważ._
*CZ:* _jsem rad_ *PL:* _jestem rad_ ("I'm glad") - from _radość _("joy"). Nowadays we use _cieszę się._
*CZ:* _kazit_ *PL:* _kazić_ ("to spoil") - nowadays we use _psuć_/_zepsuć._
*CZ:* _odpustit_ *PL:* _odpuścić_ ("to forgive") - we still use _odpuścić _but nowadays it means more like "let it go". _Odpuścić _is still used in religious phrases (_odpuszczać grzechy _"forgive sins", _odpuść nam nasze winy _"forgive us our trespasses"). Nowadays, we simply use _wybaczyć._
*CZ:* _podle_ *PL:* _podle_/_podług_ ("according to"/"by") - nowadays we use _według._
*CZ:* _spolu_ *PL:* _społem_ ("together") - _wspólnie/zespół _are related to this, so it's not so alien to us, nowadays we use _razem._
*CZ:* _spojit_ *PL:* _spoić_ ("to unite") - nowadays we use _łączyć_/_jednoczyć._
*CZ:* _večeře_ *PL:* _wieczerza_ ("supper"/"dinner") - we refer _wieczerza_ only to Christmas Eve Supper, normally we use the Latin loan _kolacja._
*CZ:* _hudba_ *PL:* _gędźba_ ("music") - a very forgotten archaism. We use _muzyka _nowadays.
*CZ:* _počet_ *PL:* _poczet_ ("count"/number") - used more as a collection or set (_Poczet władców Polski _"List of Polish rulers"). Nowadays we use _ilość_/_liczba._
*CZ:* _poslední_ *PL:* _pośledni_ ("last one"/"final") - used still in Silesian dialect, I think, but overall we say _ostatni._
*CZ:* _zkoušet_ *PL:* _skusić_ ("to try") - from _pokusa_/_zakusa. _Nowadays we use _próbować _(a loan from Latin).
*CZ:* _hledat_ *PL:* _ględać_ ("to search") - nowadays we use _szukać_, which itself is a loan from German _suchen _(a cognate to English _seek_).
*CZ:* _konečně_ *PL:* _koniecznie _("finally"/"at last") - _koniecznie _means nowadays "necessarily" in Polish. Nowadays we use _nareszcie_/_wreszcie_/_w końcu._
*CZ:* _oběť_ *PL:* _obiata_ ("sacrifice"/"victim") - as much forgotten as _żertwa _(which means the same thing). Nowadays we use _ofiara _(which we borrowed from German O_pfer_, which itself comes from Latin _offero_). However, the word _obiad _("lunch"/"dinner") is related to this word.
*CZ:* _slíbit_/_slibovat_ *PL:* _ślubować _("to promise") - today it means "to vow"/"pledge"/"to dedicate". Nowadays, we use _obiecać._
*CZ:* _sever_ *PL:* _siewior_ ("North") - a very archaic word for a cardinal direction. Nowadays we just use _północ _for North (literally "half-night", it's also used for midnight).
*CZ:* _hnědý_ *PL:* _gniady_ ("brown") - used for brown colored horse mostly. Nowadays we use _brązowy_/_brąz _(another loanword).
*CZ:* _modrý_ *PL:* _modry_ ("blue") - still used in Silesia, but overall we use now _niebieski._
*CZ:* _jídlo_ *PL:* _jadło_ ("food") - an obsolete form of the word _jedzenie_, which we use nowadays.
*CZ:* _chuť_ *PL:* _chuć_/_chęć_ ("taste") - _chęć _today means "desire"/"wish". Nowadays we say _smak _(a loan from German _Geschmack_).
*CZ:* _strýc_ *PL:* _stryj_ ("uncle") - today it means paternal uncle, rather than just uncle but even so, the word is mostly unused and will probably be forgotten in a few generations. Nowadays we say _wuj_/_wujek_.
*CZ:* _milovat_ *PL:* _miłować_ ("to love") - used in old-fashioned, traditional and religious phrases mostly. Nowadays we use _kochać._
*CZ:* _ostrov_ *PL:* _ostrów_ ("island") - not quite forgotten word but it's rather used for a river island surrounded by watercourse arms (_Ostrów Tumski_). Nowadays we just say _wyspa_.
*CZ:* _zdroj_ *PL:* _zdrój_ ("source") - used for spa towns mostly (_Kudowa-Zdrój_, _Lądek-Zdrój_, etc.). Nowadays we use _źródło_.
*CZ:* _zrcadlo_ *PL:* _zwierciadło_ ("mirror") - nowadays more like a fairy-tale word for mirror, although we use _zwierciadło _for some optical instruments. Regardless, when it comes to a simple mirror we normally just say _lustro _(an Italian loan).
*CZ:* _polévka_ *PL:* _polewka_ ("soup") - _Czarna Polewka _("Black Soup") is at least a name of one of our traditional soups, but overall we simply refer to soup as _zupa _(from German _Suppe_).
*CZ:* _život_ *PL:* _żywot_ ("life") - a rather literary/obsolete form of the word _życie_, which we use nowadays.
*CZ:* _pouť_ *PL:* _pąć_ ("pilgrimage") - at least we occasionally refer to pilgrims as _pątnicy_, but overall we use the word _pielgrzymka _(from German _Pilgrim_, from Latin _peregrinus_).
*CZ:* _rychly_ *PL:* _rychły_ ("quick"/"fast") - not quite forgotten, but nowadays it sounds rather poetic and it means more like "sudden" or "early". Nowadays we say _szybki_.
*CZ:* _řit_ *PL:* _rzyć_ ("butt"/"ass"/"anus") - a very archaic and forgotten word for _tyłek_/_dupa_/_odbyt_, which we use nowadays.


----------



## jasio

studencik said:


> If Czech was that popular in Poland I'm surprised they drifted apart to the point of not being mutually intelligible anymore. Last time Czech was that popular was in 18th century, so only 300+ years?


I'm not, and I would attribute it to the history of both languages.

First, Wikipedia dates the Czech influence on Polish two centuries earlier, ie. until 16th century. Język czeski – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia - so not 300 years, but 400-500 years. Indeed, as the Czech language seized to be used by the educated Czechs, there was no more reason to learn it in the first place.

Secondly, the Czech elite was effectively germanised, and the modern Czech language was virtually created anew based on rural dialects. Similarly to many other languages (German, Hebrew) it is to an extent an artificial language, which since its creation began to develop more naturally.

Thirdly, the German influenced the Czech more strongly than Polish - not only the vocabulary, but also the syntax and even the way of expressing things. Please note that while for centuries only parts of Poland were directly influenced by the German language (originally primarily cities, after 18th century, the Western and to some extent the Southern part of the area), in case of Czech ALL of the country was under German influence. Also, we had a continued presence of our own intellectual and cultural elites, which secured a continuous use and development of the language - and contributed to the Latin and French influence to a much larger extent than in case of the the Czech language.

Finally, we have to remember that what we call "language" is actually a sociolect used primarily by the educated people and media, typically based on the dialects of the major intellectual centers. Local dialects of both languages along the border are mutually intelligible to a much greater extent than the literary languages. As far as I can recall, people speaking Silesian (leaving aside a discussion whether it's a dialect or a separate language; it's still a part of the language continuum; the experts' opinions vary, and probably both sides have more insults than they have valid arguments) can freely communicate with the people living on the other side of the border.

EDIT: a side note: a mere fact of being influenced by the same foreign language does not guarantee that the same loanwords or structures will be loaned if they develop independently. A prominent example are variants of Spanish used in various areas under influence of English (Northern Mexico, Southern US, Gibraltar, global US cultural influence, etc).


----------



## studencik

> the modern Czech language was virtually created anew based on rural dialects. Similarly to many other languages (German, Hebrew) it is to an extent an artificial language, which since its creation began to develop more naturally.



I need texts of Czech before its "recreation". How it looked like and how similar it was to Polish than today.


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## jasio

studencik said:


> I need texts of Czech before its "recreation". How it looked like and how similar it was to Polish than today.


Perhaps this could help:  oldest texts in czech language - Google Search


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## studencik

jasio said:


> Perhaps this could help:  oldest texts in czech language - Google Search


That's not very helpful, you know.


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## Włoskipolak 72

Ben Jamin said:


> Skąd pochodzą te teksty polskie z 9 wieku, i gdzie można je znaleźć? Dotychczas przyjmowano, że najstarsze zapisane zdanie po polsku to "daj ać ja pobruczę ...." z  13 wieku. Jakieś nowe znaleziska? To byłaby sensacja.


Proszę śmiało zapytać autorkę ! 

Are Polish and Czech Similar or really Different?


----------



## jasio

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> Proszę śmiało zapytać autorkę !
> 
> Are Polish and Czech Similar or really Different?


It's obviously incorrect, as it means years 801-900, long before Mieszko I was even baptized and recognized as a ruler. The only traces which come to my mind as plausible, are isolated names of locations or persons in Saxon, or perhaps Great Moravian, chronicles. Even though calling them "Polish" would be anachronistic.


----------



## Henares

studencik said:


> *CZ:* _jenom_ *PL:* _jeno_ ("only") - this word appears in one verse of our anthem (_Słuchaj jeno bo to nasi biją w tarabany_). Nowadays we use _tylko._


It’s „…Słuchaj jeno, *pono* nasi biją w tarabany”. In modern Polish it could be rephrased to: „Tylko posłuchaj, podobno nasi grają na wojennych bębnach”.


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## studencik

Henares said:


> It’s „…Słuchaj jeno, *pono* nasi biją w tarabany”. In modern Polish it could be rephrased to: „Tylko posłuchaj, podobno nasi grają na wojennych bębnach”.



Whoops! You're right! Sorry. :/


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## Ben Jamin

Włoskipolak 72 said:


> Proszę śmiało zapytać autorkę !
> 
> Are Polish and Czech Similar or really Different?


A niby jak mam to zrobić?  Jak się rozpowszechnia takie wiadomości to trzeba je umieć udokumentować.


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## Sprachmittler224

Polish has the most Latin-origin words of all the Slavic languages, although nowhere near as many as English. _Centrum _in the Polish text example illustrates this although it was the only one I spotted in a quick overview.


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## studencik

Sprachmittler224 said:


> Polish has the most Latin-origin words of all the Slavic languages



Blame szlachta for this. Our stupid nobility was so western-wannabe that they were ready to stop speaking Polish for the _mighty_ Latin.



> although nowhere near as many as English.



I've always been curious, which language has more Latin-origin words: Polish or German?


----------



## Lorenc

Sprachmittler224 said:


> Polish has the most Latin-origin words of all the Slavic languages, although nowhere near as many as English. _Centrum _in the Polish text example illustrates this although it was the only one I spotted in a quick overview.



Can you give a reference for this claim? Or, in other words, how do you know? It seems to me that Russian has at least as many Latin-origin words as Polish, if not more (including центр).


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## Sprachmittler224

This very subject came up on this forum in discussions on February 6-7, 2011. Raised by jazyk, a member of this forum. 
Despite some exceptions, Latin and Latin-derived languages had less linguistic impact on Orthodox Slavs than on Catholic ones, pre-eminently Poles. 
Latin was the official language of the Polish and Lithuanian Commonwealth until 1795, and Mickiewicz ridiculed the macaronic effect Latin could have on the Polish spoken by the _szlachta_. 
Zapożyczenia z łaciny używane na co dzień - Supertlumaczenia.pl
I have not found an actual chart comparing Latin loanwords in Polish or other Slavic languages, although I have read the assertion about Latin in Polish and find it credible. The contributors to the 2011 discussion seem to mostly take it for granted that the Latin influence on Polish is heavy.  I certainly do not believe Latin had the same impact on Russian.


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## studencik

Sprachmittler224 said:


> I certainly do not believe Latin had the same impact on Russian.



But Greek had.


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## Lorenc

Sprachmittler224 said:


> I have not found an actual chart comparing Latin loanwords in Polish or other Slavic languages, although I have read the assertion about Latin in Polish and find it credible. The contributors to the 2011 discussion seem to mostly take it for granted that the Latin influence on Polish is heavy.



Thanks. BTW I'm not claiming that Polish _definitely _has less Latin-origin words than Russian (I cannot comment about other slavic languages, apart perhaps Ukrainian). It very well may. But claims like that should be backed up by some robust research, not intuition or small lists of selected words. 
To get a foothold on the matter I suggest the following exercise: 
1. Select a text available in all the languages we want to compare. Eg it could be a piece of modern literature, an instruction manual, film subtitles, an extract from the universal declaration of human rights, a wikipedia articles (in the latter case the text wouldn't be the same, but it may be acceptable for some purposes).
2. Thoroughly analyse the give texts and compute relevant statistics.
At least this would be 1. reproducible 2. quantitative and 3. representative of how the language is used in actual practice (no wordlists).

As a proof of concept, I did this using a piece of literature I happened to have near at hand in Polish and Russian, translations of the book A Woman's Life by Maupassant. However, the fragment I considered is much to short to draw significant conclusions. And, besides, it might be argued that 19th century literature is not the best choice for this kind of work. 

To begin with, here is the passage in Russian.
Word of Slavic origin are in green.
Word of Latin origin are in blue.
Word of non-Latin and non-Slavic origin (often Germanic or Turkish) are in red.
Proper names are in black, as well as words whose etymology I'm unsure about.
I checked etymologies on Russian/Polish wikidictionaries.
NB There may be mistakes. I haven't checked the etymology of _every _single word.

Уложив чемоданы, Жанна подошла к окну; дождь не переставал.
Всю ночь стекла звенели и по крышам стучал ливень. Нависшее, отягченное водою небо словно прорвалось, изливаясь на землю, превращая ее в кашу, растворяя, как сахар. Порывы ветра дышали тяжким зноем. Рокот разлившихся ручьев наполнял пустынные улицы; дома, как губки, впитывали в себя сырость, проникавшую внутрь и проступавшую испариной на стенах, от подвалов до чердаков.
Выйдя накануне из монастыря и оставив его навсегда, Жанна жаждала наконец приобщиться ко всем радостям жизни, о которых так давно мечтала; она опасалась, что отец будет колебаться с отъездом, если погода не прояснится, и в сотый раз за это утро пытливо осматривала горизонт.
Затем она заметила, что забыла положить в дорожную сумку свой календарь. Она сняла со стены листок картона, разграфленный на месяцы, с золотою цифрою текущего 1819 года в виньетке. Она вычеркнула карандашом четыре первых столбца, заштриховывая все имена святых вплоть до 2 мая – дня своего выхода из монастыря.
Голос за дверью позвал:
– Жанетта!
Жанна ответила:
– Войди, папа.
И в комнату вошел ее отец.


чемодан (chemodan - suitcase) is a word of Persian origin, arrived into Russian though Tatar.
Жанна (Zhanna) is the Russian version of the French name Jeanne, which comes from Latin Johannes (John) but ultimately, being a Biblical name, is from Hebrew. I don't count it at all although one might perhaps count it as "Latin-origin"? How do we count words which were imported though Latin but were imports in Latin itself?
сахар (sakhar - sugar) Ultimately from Sanscrit, but this word arrived into Europe by mediation by Arabic, Greek and Latin (saccarum).
чердак (cherdak - attic) is from Crimean Tatar.
монастырь (monastyr' - monastery). I counted as Latin-origin (monastērĭum) although ultimately it comes from Greek  monakhós (monk, hermite. Note the "mono" root). Should it count as Latin-origin?
горизонт (gorizont - horizon). Again, it is Latin-origin but ultimately from Greek. Does it count?
сумка (sumka - bag) This word has a complicated and, perhaps, uncertain etymology but it should ultimately be from Greek (by way of Germanic languages and Polish).
календарь (kalendar' - calendar) This is the first bona fide Latin-origin word, ultimately from calendae 'first day of the month'. It seems Russian got this words though Polish, but surely it still counts?
картон (karton - carton) From Latin charta 'paper', but ultimately from Greek khártēs "papyrus". Does it count?
разграфленный (razgraflionnyj - rules, divided up by lines). The 'graf' part of the word is from Latin graphĭcus (graphic), but ultimately from Greek. Maybe I shouldn't have counted it.
цифра (tsyfra - digit/figure) From Arabic and, in turn, Sanscrit.
виньетка (vin'ietka - vignette) From French vignette, and in turn from Latin vinĕam 'vine' (the first page of a book was often decorated with drawings of vines). Should it count?
карандаш (karandash - pencil) From a Turkish language.
столбец (stol'biets - column). I couldn't find the etymology, it might be of Germaniorigin?
заштриховывая (zashtrikhovyvaya - stroking out). The 'shtrikh' part of the word, meaning stroke, is of Germanic origin.
май (may - the month of May). From the Latin name of the month, itself from the goddess Maia, mother of Mercury.
папа (papa - dad). I believe Russian took it from French or German, of onomatopoeic origin.
комната (komnata - room) From Latin "саmеrа camīnāta" "room with a fireplace", although Latin camīnum 'hearth' is of Greek origin.
I think this small exercise showed how difficult it is to identify property Latin (not Greek) words. In any case in this version of the analysis I count 8 words of (arguably) Latin origin.


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## Lorenc

Now Polish. Same colour-coding.

Janina skończyła pakować walizki i podeszła do okna — deszcz nie ustawał.
Nisko wiszące niebo zdawało się pękać od nadmiaru wody i wylewać swą zawartość na ziemię, robiąc z niej rzadką papkę, rozpuszczając ją jak cukier. Chwilami zrywał się gorący, duszny wiatr. Na pustych ulicach huczały przepełnione ścieki, domy jak gąbki nasiąkały wilgocią, która przenikała do ich wnętrz, osiadając kroplistym potem na ścianach, od piwnic aż po strychy.
Janina, wczoraj zaledwie opuściwszy klasztor, wreszcie wolna, żądna tych wszystkich radości życia, o których marzyła od dawna, lękała się teraz, czy ojciec zechce wyjechać, jeśli się nie rozpogodzi, i już chyba po raz setny od rana spoglądała w niebo.
Wtem spostrzegła, że zapomniała włożyć do torby podróżnej swój kalendarz. Zdjęła ze ściany karton, podzielony podług miesięcy i ozdobiony u góry rysunkiem, pośrodku którego widniała wydrukowana złotymi literami liczba 1819.
Następnie wykreśliła ołówkiem w pierwszych czterech kolumnach wszystkie imiona świętych aż do drugiego maja, dnia opuszczenia klasztoru.
Za drzwiami odezwał się głos:
— Janinko!
— Wejdź, tatusiu — odpowiedziała i w progu ukazał się jej ojciec.

Many of the words have already been covered. Very briefly: "pakować" (to pack), "chwila" (moment), strych (attic) and wydrukowana (printed) are of Germanic origin. "torba" (bag) is of Turkish origin.
"Walizka" (suitcase) is almost certainly from French but ultimately from Latin bilīcem (a kind of strong cloth).
"klasztor" (monastery) is of ultimate Latin origin, claustrum (cfr cloister). "Litera" (letter) is from Latin but ultimately Greek origin. "Kolumna" (column) is Latin.
I'm not sure about 'huczeć' (to roar). I think it's almost certainly Slavic but the initial 'h' suggest a Czech or perhaps Ukrainian origin?
So for Polish I count 7 words of arguably Latin origin (3 in common with Russian, if I counted correctly).

Conclusion: no definite conclusions can be drawn from such a short text. However this small analysis didn't reveal that Polish has many more Latin-origin words than Russian.


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## studencik

There's at least four words you omitted:

rysunek ("drawing"), from German _Reißung_
papka ("glop"/"mush"), a diminutive of _papa_, which was probably borrowed from Latin _papa_
wreszcie ("finally"), which literally means "in rest" and as we know, "rest" is a borrowing from German _Rest_, from Italian _resto_
wykreśliła/kreślić ("to draw"), from German _krisselen_


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## Sprachmittler224

Well, citing texts can tell everything and nothing. Although that is an impressive amount of etymological work you did there. 
The fact that someone like Mickiewicz could ridicule the tendency of the Polish upper class to sprinkle their Polish with Latin and frequently just speak Latin outright says quite a lot to me. I am unaware of any significant Russian literary figures complaining about Latin being over-used in Russia, although I am aware of complaints about the heavy upper class use of French. Even then it is often a lament that the French used is "terrible", according to a character in Lermontov's _Hero Of Our Time_.


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## studencik

I think the biggest problem between Polish and Czech/Slovak is the pronunciation, sentence order and syntax. This especially creates misunderstandings. Few posts above I gave examples of a few sentences. However, it doesn't mean that every sentence is near identical in these three languages.

Here's another sentence example. This time it differes by language:

_Everything will_ _be_ _okay_ _in the_ _end_. _If it's not okay_, _it's not_ _the_ _end_.

*PL: *Na końcu wszystko będzie dobrze, a jeśli nie jest to znaczy, że to jeszcze nie koniec.
*CZ: *Nakonec všechno dobře dopadne a pokud ne, tak to ještě není konec.
*SLK: *Nakoniec vždy všetko dobre dopadne. A ak to dobre nedopadlo, tak to ešte nie je koniec.

Now, a question to Czechs and Slovaks. Down below I changed this sentence a little to make it look more Polish-like. Do you find it odd and something you wouldn't say in such way in your language? Here it is:

*CZ: *Na konci všechno bude dobře, a jestli ne je to znači, že to ještě ne je konec.
*SLK: *Na konci všetko bude dobre, a ak nie je to znači, že to ešte nie je koniec.

How often do you use _značit _and how often _znamenat_?


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## vianie

studencik said:


> *CZ: *Na konci všechno bude dobře, a jestli ne je to znači, že to ještě ne je není konec. I'd rather say: _Nakonec bude všechno v pořádku, a jestli ne, znamená to, že to ještě není konec._





studencik said:


> *SLK: *Na konci všetko bude dobre, a ak nie je to znači, že to ešte nie je koniec. _Nakoniec bude všetko v poriadku, a ak nie, znamená to, že to ešte nie je koniec._





studencik said:


> How often do you use _značit _and how often _znamenat_?


We use both, but _značit_/_značiť_ usually means something else. See the translation from an online dictionary.


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