# I'm confused about verb groups



## lipe009

So i bought a book to learn hebrew called "hebrew with pleasure". It's a very good book. But I noticed something strange: it divides the verbs in hebrew in 7 groups:

1. characterized by having ו or י as the middle letter of the root. Examples: לבוא, לקום, לרוץ, etc
2. Verbs like ללכת, לעבוד, לאכול, etc
3. That has as the third letter of the root a ה, like לרצות, לשתות, etc
4. Verbs like לדבר, לטייל, לחפש, etc
5. Most of the verbs from this group are transitive, very active or activate others. Often followed by את. Example: להזמין, להתחיל, etc
6. That has a reflexive meaning, or reciprocative, like: להתלבש, להתכתב, להתחתן, etc
7. Verbs that is used to form the passive voice, example: להיכנס, להימצא, להישמע, etc

Thing is, I have always heard about פעל, נפעל, פיעל, פועל, התפעל, הפעיל הופעל. The book says nothing about this. I wonder which ones of the group of the book is which of these?

Help?


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## Drink

Your book is just using the infinitives, rather than the traditional 3rd-person singular past tense, to characterize the groups:

- 1, 2, and 3 are פעל (with different root characteristics)
- 4 is פיעל
- 5 is הפעיל
- 6 is התפעל
- 7 is נפעל

פועל and הופעל are omitted because they are just the passives of פיעל and הפעיל.

The problem with what your book does is that the different root characteristics in 1, 2, and 3 actually apply to all of the traditional verb groups.


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## lipe009

Drink said:


> Your book is just using the infinitives, rather than the traditional 3rd-person singular past tense, to characterize the groups:
> 
> - 1, 2, and 3 are פעל (with different root characteristics)
> - 4 is פיעל
> - 5 is הפעיל
> - 6 is התפעל
> - 7 is נפעל
> 
> פועל and הופעל are omitted because they are just the passives of פיעל and הפעיל.
> 
> The problem with what your book does is that the different root characteristics in 1, 2, and 3 actually apply to all of the traditional verb groups.



Ooh, i see...what a mess! So yeah, maybe the book is not that good as i thought.

Thank you!


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## Drink

lipe009 said:


> Ooh, i see...what a mess! So yeah, maybe the book is not that good as i thought.
> 
> Thank you!



Well it's not a big mess. I haven't seen the book, but it doesn't seem like it's that bad. On a beginner level, all books seem to break things down very differently, but once you get advanced enough, it becomes more uniform.


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## lipe009

Drink said:


> Well it's not a big mess. I haven't seen the book, but it doesn't seem like it's that bad. On a beginner level, all books seem to break things down very differently, but once you get advanced enough, it becomes more uniform.



Exactly, i'm finding it very difficult. There are so many groups and so many exceptions that I'm thinking in ignore all that and memorize each verb in all it's conjugations, instead of memorizing the rules of each group and which verb is in which group.


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## Drink

lipe009 said:


> Exactly, i'm finding it very difficult. There are so many groups and so many exceptions that I'm thinking in ignore all that and memorize each verb in all it's conjugations, instead of memorizing the rules of each group and which verb is in which group.



Yes, if you learn verbs individually without thinking about the overall rules, you will notice the patterns yourself and they will make more sense to you. But it helps to learn verbs from one group at a time until you are used to them, which is why these groups are still important, and which is also why your book breaks the פעל group into three separate groups.


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## lipe009

Drink said:


> Yes, if you learn verbs individually without thinking about the overall rules, you will notice the patterns yourself and they will make more sense to you. But it helps to learn verbs from one group at a time until you are used to them, which is why these groups are still important, and which is also why your book breaks the פעל group into three separate groups.



I'll try that! Thank you for your help!


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## hadronic

Mmmh, their group 2 doesn't make sense to me : לאכול, לעבוד, ללכת? 
I guess they mean verbs with "special" first root letter, but still, it's so heterogenous that it fails in helping anyone understand how the system works. 
Also, why does Qal has its own group for ל"ה verbs, and pi'el wouldn't? 

There are no shortcut: 5 binyanim × 10ish gizrot, and some irregular verbs.


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> Mmmh, their group 2 doesn't make sense to me : לאכול, לעבוד, ללכת?
> I guess they mean verbs with "special" first root letter, but still, it's so heterogenous that it fails in helping anyone understand how the system works.
> Also, why does Qal has its own group for ל"ה verbs, and pi'el wouldn't?
> 
> There are no shortcut: 5 binyanim × 10ish gizrot, and some irregular verbs.



I think group 2 is supposed to be regular פעל, and only coincidentally they have initial gutturals. If you look at only the present and past, ללכת is pretty regular (and it's common for beginners to first learn present, then past, then future).


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## hadronic

Oh right, I misread the first group, it only comprises of פ"י/ו verbs. But still ò_ó


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