# vous m'en lirez tant



## Icetrance

Hello,

This is the title of a radio program on Radio Canada. It discusses contemporary writing and publishing.

I think I understand what "Vous m'en direz tant" means. I think it means that the person talking already knows what the other person is going to say. It seems to be used sarcastically. I'd translate it as: "Really?"  (What is going to be said is already known, so that's why the French literally says "You'll be telling me so much about it!") . Maybe I am wrong.

But, I don't know how to translate "Vous m'en lirez tant."  I doubt it is intended to be used sarcastically. 

Literally it means: "You'll be reading so much to me about it."
Here, I might translate it as: "You'll just have to read it to me" (implying that I don't know much about it. If you read it to me, I will be much more informed). 

I'd appreciate any input/suggestions. 

http://www.radio-canada.ca/radio/emissions/emission.asp?numero=1658


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## bergil

bonjour Icetrans

I think that during that program they like to play with the words ..
and I have the feeling that they just did the same with the tittle of the "émission", replacing "direz" by "lirez"


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## archijacq

Icetrance said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> _I think I understand what "Vous m'en direz tant" means. I think it means that the person talking already knows what the other person is going to say. It seems to be used sarcastically. I'd translate it as: "Really?" (What is going to be said is already known, so that's why the French literally says "You'll be telling me so much about it!") . Maybe I am wrong._
> 
> _But, I don't know how to translate "Vous m'en lirez tant." I doubt it is intended to be used sarcastically. _
> 
> _Literally it means: "You'll be reading so much to me about it."_
> _Here, I might translate it as: "You'll just have to read it to me" (implying that I don't know much about it. If you read it to me, I will be much more informed). _




(Expression historique attribuée à Anne d'Autriche):
Cette expression signifie que l'interlocuteur a fait un "understatement" et qu'il a présenté les choses de manière "voilée", et que justement s'il en dit un peu plus cela change la façon de voir les choses.

Je ne connais pas d'expression en anglais, mais cela correspondrait en gros à "so much better for saying all that", "well now, if you tell me all that" - c'est donc le contraire de "it goes without telling".

On pourrait peut-être faire qq. chose du genre "it goes with some telling"


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## Icetrance

Hello,

Thank you both for your input. 

I think I understand it's meaning, but it seems to a play on words, taken from "vous m'en direz tant."

vous m'en direz tant = You will be telling me so much of it (literally)

In other words, the person already knows what will be said, so he says "you wil be telling me so much about it" to be sarcastic

I think in English we just say "Really?" (sarcastic)

I always thought that "vous m'en direz tant" is used to be sarcastic. No?

In this case, "direz" is replaced by "lirez" and would have the same meaning but applied to the written word instead of the spoken word.


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## Icetrance

Do you think I understand the meaning of "Tu m'en diras tant" as explained in my previous posts?


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## archijacq

dans ce contexte d'un programme radio, il me semble que cette expression est un jeu de mots plaisant mais sans connotation sarcastique. "Vous m'en direz tant" signifie "expounding an understatement" et - pour ne pas copier la célèbre émission "Ex-libris" - je m'orienterais en anglais vers "under cover" pour garder l'idée de livres.


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## Icetrance

Thanks, archijacq!

I think I do understand "Vous m'en lirez tant"

It literally means "You will read so much to me about it."

"Let's read up on it", perhaps which stresses that there is so much to be known by reading books, or whatever.


Second question:

Is "Tu m'en diras tant" generally used in a sarcastic sense?

It seems to means "Really?" (as if what one is going to be told is old news)
Ce qu'on va apprendre est une vielle nouvelle  (on le sait déjà)


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## DearPrudence

I can't think of any good example but in general I guess it's sarcastic indeed:
*"Vous êtes allés en Italie en juillet et il a fait très beau : tu m'en diras tant"* (what a rubbish example!!   )
I suppose it can be a sarcastic answer to something obvious and that kind of annoys you (oh, please shut up. But let's pretend I care  ).
I guess in some contexts, it could be taken "literally" and not be used sarcastically as "really" I suppose (here, I imagine old ladies gossipping  )

As for the title "*vous m'en lirez tant*", I immediately think of "vous m'en direz tant" and I guess it's used mainly because of the pun on that well-known expression, it's the only _raison d'être_ of this title as I see it. I had never thought of it as meaning something literally if you see what I mean ... But your translation is correct, though for me it's strange to translate it, as if I had to realize that the expression "avoir du bol" (to be lucky) actually means literally: "to have bowl" which doesn't mean anything ...
I am sorry because I know it doesn't answer your questions at all but it was just to say that I had not even thought of it as having a literal meaning (I know, that's not good  )


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## archijacq

In some ways, James Lipton's "Actor's studio" could be termed "vous m'en jouerez tant"...

"Vous m'en direz tant" can be sarcastic (savvy).


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## Lostinoz

How about, "You don't say!"

This would cover the _double entendre _aspect of the orginal.

[On edit].....but not the lire/dire twist.


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## Cath.S.

Tiré par les cheveux...

_That's ink-readable!_


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## Nicomon

egueule said:


> Tiré par les cheveux...
> 
> _That's ink-readable!_


 
Salut  

J'aime beaucoup l'idée, sauf qu'à la radio, le jeu de mots est peut-être moins évident. 

Mon faible effort : 
_Read me about it_ (sur le modèle de _tell me about it_)


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## emma42

L'expression anglaise est "It goes without *saying*" (pas "telling").

Je ne sais pas si cela convient à "vous m'en direz tant", mais j'ai voulu corriger  ce "telling".


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## Nicomon

emma42 said:


> L'expression anglaise est "It goes without *saying*" (pas "telling").


 
J'imagine que tu fais référence au post #3 emma? Ce que j'ai écrit plus haut (#12) c'est "tell me about it". Ça se dit ça, non?


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## archijacq

Est-ce qu'on pourrait dire en anglais: "Telltale reading" - pour essayer de conserver les termes d'origine


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## pheelineerie

Nicomon said:


> J'imagine que tu fais référence au post #3 emma? Ce que j'ai écrit plus haut (#12) c'est "tell me about it". Ça se dit ça, non?


 
Yes, but it's different than vous m'en direz tant - it's just a way of agreeing emphatically.

"I am so sick of this rainy French weather."
"Yeah, tell me about it." (=me too)

(Just kidding, it's actually kind of nice out today)


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## Nicomon

pheelineerie said:


> Yes, but it's different than vous m'en direz tant - it's just a way of agreeing emphatically.


 
Thanks pheeli. I knew it didn't mean the same thing.  I was just trying to find a common phrase for that title. 

I like archijacq's _telltale reading  _


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## emma42

Nicomon said:


> J'imagine que tu fais référence au post #3 emma? Ce que j'ai écrit plus haut (#12) c'est "tell me about it". Ça se dit ça, non?



Oui, oui, Nicomon, post #3.  Tu as raison -  "Tell me about it" va bien.


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## Icetrance

Comme traduction de "Vous m'en lirez tant", on pourrait peut-être dire:That's _read_iculous!_ (_En d'autres mots, impossible d'imaginer toutes les bonnes choses à lire à être présentées et discutées sur l'émission._)_


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## Icetrance

Perhaps the title of the radio show could be_:_ "*Read*iculous Reading", or even_ "_On Your Mark, Get Set, - *Read*"
You can't do the exact play on words here - impossible. And I highly doubt there is an idea of irony here in this play on words. But what you can do, is take the general literal meaning "You will be reading so much of it to me" to give the impression that you this show will be about reading away and away and away (so many things to be read). Isn't that sort of the point here (minus the play on words)?


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## CarlosRapido

Et pourquoi pas tout simplement;

Vous m'en direz tant - Tell me about it

Vous m'en lirez tant - Read me about it?


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## Icetrance

CarlosRapido said:


> Et pourquoi pas tout simplement;
> 
> Vous m'en direz tant - Tell me about it
> 
> Vous m'en lirez tant - Read me about it?



Hello.

"_Read me about it_" sounds really silly and senseless in English as a title. It just wouldn't work, I'm afraid. You cannot do the play on words in English here from "_Tell me about it_".


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## CarlosRapido

Make no more or less sense than the French...

The idiomatic translation of_ Vous m'en direz tant!_ is *You don't say!* or, in a different register, *No shit, Sherlock!*. Maybe someone can think of a word play on those.


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## Icetrance

CarlosRapido said:


> Make no more or less sense than the French...
> 
> The idiomatic translation of_ Vous m'en direz tant!_ is *You don't say!* or, in a different register, *No shit, Sherlock!*. Maybe someone can think of a word play on those.



Yeah, but the French is a play on words with "_Vous m'en direz tant_". In English, we wouldn't have anything to go on like that, so....


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## Nicomon

Icetrance said:


> "_Read me about it_" sounds really silly and senseless in English as a title. It just wouldn't work, I'm afraid. You cannot do the play on words in English here from "_Tell me about it_".


 I tried that pun way back when in 2007 (post #12). Any francophone will understand that the French title « _Vous m'en *lirez* tant _» is just a play on words with the common saying _« Vous m'en *direz* tant »_. 

So, changing "*tell*" into "*read*" seemed like the same pattern, as changing « *dire *» into «* lire *». I assumed anglophones would "get it", since the program is about writing/publishing.

It may not be the best solution but, no offense, your _You Got to be Readiculous_ sounds far more silly and senseless to me. Besides, you'd have to listen carefully to hear the tentative pun on a radio show. 

Mais bon, des goûts et des couleurs...


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## Icetrance

Nicomon said:


> I tried that pun way back when in 2007 (post #12). Any francophone will understand that the French title « _Vous m'en *lirez* tant _» is just a play on words with the common saying _« Vous m'en *direz* tant »_.
> 
> So, changing "*tell*" into "*read*" seemed like the same pattern, as changing « *dire *» into «* lire *». I assumed anglophones would "get it", since the program is about writing/publishing.
> 
> It may not be the best solution but, no offense, your _You Got to be Readiculous_ sounds far more silly and senseless to me. Besides, you'd have to listen carefully to hear the tentative pun on a radio show.
> 
> Mais bon, des goûts et des couleurs...



Oui bien sûr ma chère Nicomon, mais...

"_Read_iculous" (I prefer it without "You Got to Be") is not silly, Nicomon. There is a positive/neutral meaning in "ridiculous" that you're not seeing. It means "a lot", "great" or that "I cannot believe that". And so, it would not have any negative connotation whatsoever in certain contexts - quite the contrary at times.  

*That's ridiculous* (in some contexts) = That's great/awesome/a lot/Wow...I can't believe that!

Perhaps "That's _Read_iculous", or "On Your Mark, Get Set, ...Read"

I am a native English speaker, and I can tell you that "Read me about it" would make zero sense in English. No one would ever think you're basing it upon "Tell me about it" It just doesn't work - period.


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## Nicomon

Well then, I'd go with Cath's _That's_ _ink-readable_ or archijaq's : _Telltale reading.

_I'm sorry but _Read_iculous doesn't cut it for me. And for the record... I knew the different meanings of the word "ridiculous".

As a native French speaker, I can tell you that « _Vous m'en *li*rez tant _» isn't a common saying either. Just a pun that everybody understands, since the radio show is about writing and publishing (magazine littéraire). 

Now if you're telling me that anglophones listening to a radio program about *books* wouldn't make the connection between "_*Read* me about it"_ and "_Tell me about it_" well... I don't know what to say. 

So, let's agree to disagree on that one.

*Edit :* I just noticed that Icitrance edited (or rather, re-wrote) post #20. I didn't just invent that "_You Got to be Readiculous_" which is quoted above. 
It was there before.


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## Icetrance

Bonjour! J'ai révisé mon post # 20 avant d'avoir lu le vôtre dans lequel vous mentionnez le "You Got to Be_ Read_iculous" (pas besoin de révulser les yeux LOL...d'ailleurs j'ai le droit de réviser mes posts sans passer d'abord par vous, Madame..ahhh les belles manières de la Toile): 

"That's ink-readable" est hyper maladroit et loufoque, et pour ce qui est de "Telltale Reading", ça voudrait dire quoi??

Quant à "Read me about" (je tapais sur le clavier à minuit l'autre nuit)... Mais si, c'est très logique, mais l'éventuelle ironie humoristique dans "vous m'en lirez tant"
se fera-t-elle sentir dans la traduction (s'il y en est dans le français original d'ailleurs, ce qui est possible pour faire rire). En anglais "Tell me about it" n'est pas autant associé à l'ironie humoristique comme c'est le cas avec "vous m'en direz tant" : on a très littéralement en anglais "Tell me about it". Donc peu d'espoir là pour avoir de l'ironie dans "Read me about it" (aussi peu créateur et maladroit pour un titre en anglais)

Je suis désolé de ne pas avoir été clair avec vous. C'est tout ce que j'essayais de dire.

"That's _Read_iculous" semble par ailleurs envelopper toutes ces possibilités tout en étant assez accrocheur comme titre en anglais naturel. Mais là je resterai humble car je ne suis pas un monsieur "je-sais-tout". 

Ça ferait du bien d'avoir des suggestions/avis des locuteurs natifs anglais.

 Je doute qu'il y ait une touche d'ironie ici (j'avais dit ça dans mon premier post de ce fil).


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## Nicomon

Icetrance said:


> Bonjour! J'ai révisé mon post # 20 avant d'avoir lu le vôtre dans lequel vous mentionnez le "You Got to Be_ Read_iculous" ([...]d'ailleurs j'ai le droit de réviser mes posts sans passer d'abord par vous, Madame..ahhh les belles manières de la Toile.


 Sûr que t'as le droit de changer tes posts sans passer par moi. Mais comme tu m'as citée avant que je me rende compte de ta révision... je ne peux plus modifier le mien, de post.

C'est la raison pour laquelle j'ai cru bon de préciser que je ne l'avais pas inventé. Sinon, il n'y a pas de suite logique. 
*
Edit : *Et si tu prends la peine de relire les posts précédents (pas seulement les miens), tu verras qu'il n'y a* PAS *d'ironie dans le titre français. 
Rien d'autre qu'un jeu de mots.

Je cède la parole aux anglophones, et je passe à un autre fil.


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