# entre-soi



## njcaviet

Qu'est ce le mot "entre-soi" veut dire? Je vous donne une phrase pour vous donner le contexte:

"Tel est l'enseignement de cette enquête au cœur du " ghetto français ", qui révèle une société marquée par la défiance et la recherche de *l'entre-soi,* et découvre en chacun de nous un complice plus ou moins actif de la ségrégation urbaine."


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## Punky Zoé

Something like between themselves. Not mixed with others.


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## la_cavalière

I understand it to be identifying yourself as part of a group -- a feeling of cultural, social or national identity.


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## njcaviet

Un espece de communautarisme donc?


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## Punky Zoé

Yes you could say it.


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## njcaviet

Hello again, I am now wondering what the exact word in English would be for 'entre-soi'? Do you think "community-building" is right?


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## FAC13

"Entre-soi" expresses the idea of being with one's own kind. I suggest you aren't going to get a one or two word English equivalent.

You are right, it is about "community building" but you need to make it clear it is about building socially homogenous communities.

I suggest "the desire to live with one's own socio-economic group"


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## njcaviet

Thanks very much FAC13, excellent idea.  I need to work with this word a lot so i had to be sure i was 100% clear on how to use it.


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## njcaviet

Sorry to return to this theme AGAIN! It seems i really have a problem with this word!

Is the following correct? :
"Il s'agit d'un entre soi dit de classe" 
(I mean that the community grouping in my context is supposedly based on what class you're from)

Or: 
"C'est un entre soi de classe mais aussi culturel"

Do i need to rephrase to:
"C'est un entre soi _base sur_ la classe..."?


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## mattd

I think you may be able to use the term 'self-segregation' if entre-soi is about community building within a homogenous group.

Par exemple:

<< l'engrenage du chômage et de la ségrégation ethnique favouriseraint le goût pour *l'entre-soi* communautaire... >>

donc, en anglais, je pense que la traduction peut-être:

'the cycle of unemployment and ethnic segregation will favour the taste [I'm thinking there must be a better translation for <<le goût>> here] for self-segregation of communities...'

vous êtes d'accord?

Whoops, very old thread! Not a great start for this newbie!


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## Choq

Est-ce que on peut traduire " entre-soi" par their own community??


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## Phil512

Hi Choq,
I would rather go for "in or within their own community"
An example from the Cambridge dictionary : He's very highly regarded within his profession.
within définition dans le dictionnaire Anglais de Cambridge
Referring to the very first question above (top of the page), I would go for : "trying to remain (with)in one's own community" or similar. But this is just a humble personal attempt.


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## Nicomon

Moi ce que je me demande, c'est si « _l'entre-so_i » utilisé comme substantif est courant en français.  À mon avis, il n'y a pas de traduction "one fits all".

La définition générale est la suivante : 





> Fait de ne fréquenter que ses semblables, des personnes du même milieu que soi. _Se ghettoïser en cultivant un *entre-soi *ethnique_.


  J'ai aimé cette discussion dans laquelle il est notamment question de "_togetherness_" (s'il faut un seul mot).

Et ce qui suit est extrait de cette page (vers la fin) : 





> l'entre-soi
> *privileged segregation / exclusive segregation
> 
> Explanation:*
> First of all, the term is l'entre-soi and not entre-soi.
> *social enclaves* is a good translation in some contexts, and *gated communities* is one such case.
> 
> However, a broader understanding of the term, I believe, is *segregation* or *exclusiveness*, especially that of a privileged group
> (or one that regards itself as superior) vs. the rest of society.


 Sinon le _(désir de)_ _rester entre soi_ peut se traduire (on me corrigera si je me trompe) par :_ 
- (desire to) stay among one's peers / keep to themselves / stick together as a group._


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## Itisi

Oui, ou 'stick to your own kind'.


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## Ningxiabird

Amongst ourselves / amongst themselves.


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## lorenzogranada

entre-soi has a negative connotation, nothing to do with "community building"! Depending on the context, it can be expressed in English as "living in an ivory tower", "living in their own little world/cocoon" or even "setting themselves apart". 

A recent article in Nice-Matin criticizes the pseudo-scientific jargon being promoted by the Education Ministry, with "élève" becoming "apprenant" and "water" (in the school pool) "milieu acquatique", pen or stylo becoming "outil scripteur" and even rugby ball as "referentiel bondissant à la trajectoire aléatoire"! 

It's apparently serious - the article, written by an angry teacher of French in Cannes, is entitled "Ceux qui parlent comme ça, sont dans l'entre-soi". In this case, the expression refers to a form of bureaucratic elitism which is already rife in French schools,  thanks to the "politically correct" mania.


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## midatlantic

Let me loudly second lorenzogranada's commonsensical remarks. The bureaucrats and political correctors echo Molière's precious ladies who referred to chairs as  faciltators of conversation--except that their inventions (or his) were worth laughing at, whereas bureaucratese is laughable but certainly not funny.


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## upgotheheads

*Confinement, un an après : « Nous sommes des êtres sociaux qui avons besoin d’aller au delà de l’entre soi »*

I found this reference in Le Monde today. In this context I take 'entre soi' to mean inside/within oneself.  'We are social beings and need to go (or be taken)  beyond/outside of ourselves.


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## joelooc

La devise actualisée devrait donc être "pas de communautarisme, sauf le nôtre". Ça sent bon ou ça pue la sécession/guerre civile selon où vos intérêts se situent.


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## Locape

I would understand 'entre-soi' in your context as the one(s) you live with, so it can be yourself if you live alone, or your (nuclear) family. We are social beings and we need to have a social life and meet people besides the ones we live with (i.e. friends, relatives, colleagues, strangers, etc.)


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## BlancheJ

Not applicable to every context, but I have found "echo chamber" to be useful when translating the concept of "entre-soi" (in my case regarding online communities and information diversity.) 
Hope it helps someone at some point


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## idfx

lorenzogranada said:


> entre-soi has a negative connotation, nothing to do with "community building"! Depending on the context, it can be expressed in English as "living in an ivory tower", "living in their own little world/cocoon" or even "setting themselves apart". A recent article in Nice-Matin criticizes the pseudo-scientific jargon being promoted by the Education Ministry, with "élève" becoming "apprenant" and "water" (in the school pool) "milieu acquatique", pen or stylo becoming "outil scripteur" and even rugby ball as "referentiel bondissant à la trajectoire aléatoire"!
> It's apparently serious - the article, written by an angry teacher of French in Cannes, is entitled "Ceux qui parlent comme ça, sont dans l'entre-soi". In this case, the expression refers to a form of bureaucratic elitism which is already rife in French schools,  thanks to the "politically correct" mania.


"apprenant" = "learner", someone who is actively engaged in the activity of learning, whereas an "élève" (pupil) is caught in a top-down relationship with a the teacher. "Scripteur" is any tool used for writing, which may be a pen or a pencil or a crayon or a biro or a paintbrush or whatever, so even though bureaucratese is a reality and often an irritating one, this all makes perfect sense. 
Thanks for the suggestions though. My two cents: *self-segregation*.


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## wildan1

njcaviet said:


> et la recherche de *l'entre-soi*


_sticking to one's own kind._



upgotheheads said:


> Confinement, un an après : « Nous sommes des êtres sociaux qui avons besoin d’aller au delà de l’entre soi »
> need to go (or be taken) beyond/outside of ourselves.


In that specific context, _break out of our bubble._


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## ericc

Here is a line from Laurent Fignon’s memoir, “Nous étions jeunes et insouciants”: “Ce texte naît donc un entre-soi.”  And earlier: “Ce livre est né d’un entre-soi, d’un outre-là aussi, d’un monde perdu…” I’m having trouble making sense of it. “This text was born of a self-contained community”? “This text was born in a bubble”? Help! (Interesting  memoir btw!)


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## Topsie

Hello @ericc and welcome to the forum  
Laurent Fignon's autobiography in English is called "We Were Young and Carefree" - if you can get hold of a copy, you can let us know how it was translated!


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## ericc

OK, I looked it up, and this part: 
“Ce livre est né d’un entre-soi, d’un outre-là aussi, d’un monde perdu…” 
seems to be translated: 
"What follows is my personal story, but it also describes a wider world, a lost world..."
So... idk...


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## Topsie

Perhaps (who knows?) he means something along the lines of "this story is an introspection..." 
I don't think it has anything to do with the *entre-soi* of the OP.


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## Locape

ericc said:


> Here is a line from Laurent Fignon’s memoir, “Nous étions jeunes et insouciants”: “Ce texte naît donc un entre-soi.”  And earlier: “Ce livre est né d’un entre-soi, d’un outre-là aussi, d’un monde perdu…”


Are you sure the first sentence you quote isn’t _Ce livre naît donc *d'*un entre-soi _since _*d'*un entre-soi, *d'*un outre-là, *d'*un monde perdu _is said earlier? It seems he's using a styling effect with all these images, even if I'm not sure what _d'un outre-là _truly means. _ D'un entre-soi _is like a reversed image of _d'un outre-là _(and rhyming), literaly _"from inside here, from beyond out there"_, but it's hard to translate these expressions.

Edit: I've just read your post, the English translator choosed a much more simpler and understandable wording. It's definitively not the usual, and I would say, the correct usage of _entre-soi_.


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## Aristide

Topsie said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with the *entre-soi* of the OP.


Un peu quand même. Ce sont des sociologues, dans leur petit microcosme universitaire, qui ont lancé dans les années 1970 la mode de parler de "l'entre-soi" à propos des bourges qui restent entre eux. Avant, on pouvait rester entre soi, mais on ne pouvait pas "rester dans l'entre-soi", car on n'utilisait pas "entre-soi" comme un nom. Quand Laurent Fignon parle "d'un entre-soi", il montre qu'il s'est laissé influencer sur le plan stylistique. Par contre, il n'y met peut-être pas de connotation négative. Il faudrait d'abord lire son livre et voir ensuite si on comprend mieux sa phrase !


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