# Does drug have a Persian origin?



## Alijsh

I had read somewhere that *drug* has a Persian origin. Recently, I found its etymology in a book and decided to pose it here and see what you say.



> Latin *droga* is from Old Iranian *dârawaka*, which is a compound from word *dârav* and suffix *aka*. *dârav* meant *trunk* and since drugs have had a herbal source, they coined *dârawaka*. *dârawaka* has become *dârug* in Middle Persian and *dâru* in New Persian.


I must add that *dârav* has become *dâr* and is the word for "tree" in many dialects of Persian as well as other Iranian languages (e.g. Mazandarani, Gilaki).

What do you think? Has Latin the word *droga* at all? And if so, do you think it's a borrowing or it's a cognate? I'm sure about the etymology of New Persian word dâru but I can't say anything about Latin. Please enlighten me.


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## mkh

Hi,
*drug *in etymonline.com : "... or because medicines mostly consisted of *dried herbs.* "
دارو (daru in Per. means medicine) come from داروک (*darug* in M.Per. means "made from tree" and medicine) from Avestan *draonô* means in avesta.org "food (Herb.), food offering, sacred cake". from Av. *dûraosha* means in avesta.org "removing pain, killer of pain".
So drug maybe cognate to داروک (darug) in M.Per or dûraosha in Avesta.
Drug means *opium *or* افیون* (afiun in Per.) too. words that maybe cognate to drug is تریاک or تریاق (teriac or teriagh in Per. means antidote from mibosearch.com).

Thanks,
Mahdi.


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## Frank06

Hi,



> Latin *droga* is from Old Iranian *dârawaka*, which is a compound from word *dârav* and suffix *aka*. *dârav* meant *trunk* and since drugs have had a herbal source, they coined *dârawaka*. *dârawaka* has become *dârug* in Middle Persian and *dâru* in New Persian.


Alijsh, it's an interesting quote, but where did you find it?



mkh said:


> *drug *in etymonline.com : "... or because medicines mostly consisted of *dried herbs.* "


I don't understand why you give this very selective quote from the etymonline webiste. Why did you leave out the part which says "1327, from O.Fr. _drouge,_ perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. _droge-vate_ "dry barrels"? Which, according to Rey (in Dictionnaire historique de la langue française) is still a good candidate.

What I found in an older Dutch etymological dictionary is a reference to Arabic _durawa_, smaller pieces almost worth anything, the pieces which fall through a sieve, a meaning "which fits the first mentioning of 1327". But this explanation is not widely accepted.

I have no idea about the etymology, but I think it wouldn't be a bad idea that, before we start looking for possible etymologies which concentrate upon the meaning of drugs, medication, sacred cakes etc., we find the meaning of that 1327 attestation (or oldest attestations in English, French, Dutch, Italian, ...). It could help us.

Anyway, most etymological dictionaries are clear about one thing: there have been given many explanations already and all of them are disputed. That's why I am surprised by the rather firm statement quoted by Alisjh (no trace of doubt in that quote) and the explanation by mkh.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## shannenms

Alijsh said:


> I had read somewhere that *drug* has a Persian origin. Recently, I found its etymology in a book and decided to pose it here and see what you say.
> 
> I must add that *dârav* has become *dâr* and is the word for "tree" in many dialects of Persian as well as other Iranian languages (e.g. Mazandarani, Gilaki).
> 
> What do you think? Has Latin the word *droga* at all? And if so, do you think it's a borrowing or it's a cognate? I'm sure about the etymology of New Persian word dâru but I can't say anything about Latin. Please enlighten me.


 
I couldn't find droga in all my Latin or Greek dictionaries, and I have not seen in Latin literature, as far as I am familiar ith, such a word is used (they used venenum).
Bu the way,where did you read this?
Thanks


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## Alijsh

Frank06 said:


> Anyway, most etymological dictionaries are clear about one thing: there have been given many explanations already and all of them are disputed. That's why I am surprised by the rather firm statement quoted by Alisjh (no trace of doubt in that quote) and the explanation by mkh.


I meant the etymology presented for the Persian word. Yes, this etymology is certainly correct. As I said, we still have *dâr* in many dialects of Persian and even in so-called Standard Persian (fârsi-ye me'yâr) we have *dârkub* (woodpecker): *dâr*: tree; *kub*: present stem of *kuftan*, *kubidan*: to pound, bray; to knock.

I don't claim any certainty about the Latin word. That's why I pose it here. In my opinion (it came into my mind after my first post), this Latin word can be, if ever exists, a borrowing from Middle Persian dârug. Because at that time Gundeshapur was the center of medicine and people of different nations came there.

@shannenms : Yes. I also didn't find it in my Latin dictionary and also in an online one. 

@Frank06 and @shannenms: The book is: *rišešenâsi (etymology) by Dr. Mohsen Abolqâsemi*.


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## wonderment

@Alish and @shannenms: I also searched for ‘droga’ in the Latin dictionaries at the Perseus site and found nothing. This means is that the word is not attested in extant Latin texts, not necessarily that it doesn’t exist. 

In Latin, the attested words for ‘drug’:
‘medicamen’ : a healing substance/remedy/medicine or a poisonous drug 
‘medicamentum’ : a drug or remedy, medicine
‘venenum’: poisonous drug

So these words won’t help us with the etymology of  ‘drug.’ The standard etymology given is usually: "1300–50; ME drogges (pl.) < OF drogue, of obscure orig." We can still trace the derivation from Middle English < Old French to Latin because French is a Romance Language derived from Latin. Our problem is that ‘droga’ is not attested in extant Latin texts. But I think Dr. Mohsen Abolqâsemi has good reasons for claiming such a word exists, if you look at the word for 'drug' in the Roman Languages. They are separated into two categories: medicine and narcotic. 

For medicine:
Italian: medicinale
Spanish: medicamento
French: medicament
Portuguese: droga
Romanian: medicament

For drug:
Italian: droga
Spanish: droga
French:drogue
Portuguese: droga
Romanian: drog 

It seems clear that medicine is derived from Latin ‘medicamentum’. As for the other drug, even though we don’t have a word attested in Latin, it’s not unreasonable, in my view, to speculate that it might be ‘droga’. And it’s probably a late borrowing, before the 9th century because by then late Latin had developed into the Romance Languages. 

Probably completely unrelated, but I came across this word when I was looking for the etymology of ‘drug’: Drug, the cosmic principle of disorder and falsehood in Zoroastrianism. [Origin: < Avestan drauga] 

I found all my info here (check it out, it’s a really useful reference tool, not just for word definitions): 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drug

Hope this helps...


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## wonderment

I had a look at the Italian etymology for ‘droga’, figuring if any language could trace its root back to Latin, Italian would be it, but that turned out not to be the case with this word.

The Italian etymological dictionary derives ‘droga’ from the Dutch DROOG, Anglo-Saxon DRYG, English DRY, Old High German TROCK-AN and TRUCCH-AN: arid, dry, because dried plants were used in medicine and in cooking, and the term was diffused in Europe at the end of the 16th century when Dutch merchants purveyed their goods from Asia and Oceana in the markets of Europe. 

This derivation meshes with what is found at etymonline: “1327, from O.Fr. drouge, perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. droge-vate 'dry barrels', with first element mistaken as word for the contents, or because medicines mostly consisted of dried herbs. Application to 'narcotics and opiates' is 1883, though association with 'poisons' is 1500s.” 

So in terms of semantic, its seems initially the term denoted some sort of dry plants or herbs used in medicine or cooking. The negative connotation associated with narcotics came much later. As for the derivation, I’m still at a loss.


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## shannenms

wonderment said:


> I had a look at the Italian etymology for ‘droga’, figuring if any language could trace its root back to Latin, Italian would be it, but that turned out not to be the case with this word.
> 
> The Italian etymological dictionary derives ‘droga’ from the Dutch DROOG, Anglo-Saxon DRYG, English DRY, Old High German TROCK-AN and TRUCCH-AN: arid, dry, because dried plants were used in medicine and in cooking, and the term was diffused in Europe at the end of the 16th century when Dutch merchants purveyed their goods from Asia and Oceana in the markets of Europe.
> 
> This derivation meshes with what is found at etymonline: “1327, from O.Fr. drouge, perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. droge-vate 'dry barrels', with first element mistaken as word for the contents, or because medicines mostly consisted of dried herbs. Application to 'narcotics and opiates' is 1883, though association with 'poisons' is 1500s.”
> 
> So in terms of semantic, its seems initially the term denoted some sort of dry plants or herbs used in medicine or cooking. The negative connotation associated with narcotics came much later. As for the derivation, I’m still at a loss.


 
I saw the same thing too in the Skeat Dictionary.


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## Asgaard

Alijsh said:


> I had read somewhere that *drug* has a Persian origin. Recently, I found its etymology in a book and decided to pose it here and see what you say.
> 
> I must add that *dârav* has become *dâr* and is the word for "tree" in many dialects of Persian as well as other Iranian languages (e.g. Mazandarani, Gilaki).
> 
> What do you think? Has Latin the word *droga* at all? And if so, do you think it's a borrowing or it's a cognate? I'm sure about the etymology of New Persian word dâru but I can't say anything about Latin. Please enlighten me.



It's PIE root - no doubt

*Trough* O.E. trog, from P.Gmc. *trugoz (cf. O.Fris., O.S., O.N. trog, M.Du. troch, Du. trog, O.H.G. troc, Ger. trog), perhaps ultimately from PIE *drukos, from base *dru- "wood, tree". Originally pronounced in Eng. with a hard -gh- (as in Scottish loch); pronunciation shifted to -f-, but spelling remained. ( see tree also)
and*
Proto-IE:* *trūk- *Meaning:* a k. of vessel

In Romanian I have found the expression :

*" In_drug(i) verzi si uscate " 

*Meaning - talking nonsense,(not a interesting talk? , pointless? )
But when you translate word by word :
in - in
_ drug - a wooden bowl? a tree, a trough?_
verzi - greens (green leafs, green branches? )
si - and
uscate - dry ( dry leafs, dry branches ? - unspecified )
literal translation - In (tree , in trough? ) green and dry ( leafs, branches?)

indrug - see DEX 


Happy Winter Solstice
Asgaard


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## Frank06

*Hi,*

*May I urge everybody to stick to the topic of this thread, viz. the etymology of drug and a possible relation to Persian.*

*This, however, does not include every single word in whatever language which contains the letters 'd' and 'r', or 't' and 'r'. *


*If somebody really wants to come up with a novel explanation, then it is not sufficient to post a series of quotes from etymological databases or a list of words which have a few letters in common with the word we are discussing. Further explanation is needed.*
*Groetjes,*

*Frank*
*Moderator EHL*


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## OldAvatar

Asgaard said:


> In Romanian I have found the expression :
> 
> *" In_drug(i) verzi si uscate "
> 
> *Meaning - talking nonsense,(not a interesting talk? , pointless? )
> But when you translate word by word :
> in - in
> _ drug - a wooden bowl? a tree, a trough?_
> verzi - greens (green leafs, green branches? )
> si - and
> uscate - dry ( dry leafs, dry branches ? - unspecified )
> literal translation - In (tree , in trough? ) green and dry ( leafs, branches?)
> 
> indrug - see DEX



The verb _a îndruga_, _îndrugare_, from the Romanian expression "_îndrugi verzi şi uscate_" is of pure Slavic/Serbian origin (*în* + *drugă*). „_Druga_” is a tool made of wood and it is used for manufacturing fibres for sacks, textile bags (a sort of a linchpin, but bigger). The making and the using of this tool are called _îndrugare _and the tool is supposed to be made of dry wood and never of green wood. Therefore, the expression means that the person is talking nonsense, not having the slightest idea of what's going on and putting together both dry and green wood, without sorting the proper wood. Also, for the process of manufacturing such fibres, you need to have a particular type of fibre, you can not mix together dry and green fibres...

You've mentioned Romanian several times, trying to explain doubtful etymology and you connected the language with precarious concepts, so, I guess I can politely suggest you to start asking questions on Romanian forum before posting unreal ideas here.

Best regards!


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## skarphéðinn

Alijsh said:


> What do you think? Has Latin the word *droga* at all? And if so, do you think it's a borrowing or it's a cognate? I'm sure about the etymology of New Persian word dâru but I can't say anything about Latin. Please enlighten me.



You know, that is a really interesting question, I am working on a Spanish dictionary and had the Diccionario de la Real Academia Española (DRAE) open that has etymologies, and here is what it says for the Spanish word for drug, 'droga': (Del ár. hisp. *ḥaṭrúka; literalmente, 'charlatanería'). 

So it's ultimately from Arabic, via Hispano-Arabic (the Andalusian dialect of Arabic), so it doesn't sound too far-fetched that that middle syllable is some sort of reduction from daraw > d<a>raw > draw> tru (ok, handwaving on the evolution of that cluster, given I know nothing about Arabic or Persian), but contact between the two languages and borrowing seems plausible. [Sorry, I hadn't seen that the term of comparison is actually taruk, even closer to the Hispano-Arabic term, possibly by metathesis ta>at , then?]

Now the problem is the semantics, because the Hispano-Arabic word has little to do with tree or herb, but seems to mean trick, swindle, although I have to say that that is a derived meaning from an original -I can't think of the word- but whatever a shaman or a witch doctor (original meaning of _charlatan_) does to cure patients... so maybe herbs do come into the picture after all.

skph


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## Asgaard

Hi,



OldAvatar said:


> The verb _a îndruga_, _îndrugare_, from the Romanian expression "_îndrugi verzi şi uscate_" _*is of pure Slavic/Serbian origin*_ (*în* + *drugă*).!



How can you be so certain?? ( "_pure Slavic/Serbian origin" _)

*Proto-IE:* *derw-, *drēw- ....  _Listed as a long range etymology_ ('Borean').(see more on Babel...)
*Old Indian:* dāru, gen. droh, drunah in. drunā, loc. dāruni `wood, timber'; dru- n., m. `wood or* any wooden implement*', (_this includes "slavic" drug_) m. `tree, branch'; darvi-, darvī- f. `(wooden) ladle'; drona- n. `wooden vessel, trough, bucket';  drunī- f.  `watertrough';  druma- m. `tree'



Happy Holidays
Asgaard


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## OldAvatar

What can I say? Perhaps that Romanians didn't get the word „*drug” *from some sort of Vedic disciples. They've got it from Slavs and Slavic is Indo-European, after all...
However, I can't see the link between the meaning of Slavic or Old Indian, as you mentioned, word *drug *and nowadays English _*drug*_.

Best regards!


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## faranji

skarphéðinn said:


> Now the problem is the semantics, because the Hispano-Arabic word has little to do with tree or herb, but seems to mean trick, swindle, although I have to say that that is a derived meaning from an original -I can't think of the word- but whatever a shaman or a witch doctor (original meaning of _charlatan_) does to cure patients... so maybe herbs do come into the picture after all.
> 
> skph


 
This makes sense. One of the oldest meanings of the Spanish _*droga*_ was a lie, a sham.

Also, I wonder whether *mujadirat* (Spanish pronunciation; make that _j _a _kh_), modern Arabic for drugs, has any relation to your _hatruka_. I can see the root seems to be different (kh-d-r) but then again my knowledge of Arabic is virtually non-existent.


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## Lugubert

faranji said:


> Also, I wonder whether *mujadirat* (Spanish pronunciation; make that _j _a _kh_), modern Arabic for drugs, has any relation to your _hatruka_. I can see the root seems to be different (kh-d-r) but then again my knowledge of Arabic is virtually non-existent.


You're quite correct about the Arabic root is Kh-D-R. The m is a common prefix for making participes and such, and the -t looks like a feminine ending. The Arabic word is, however, masculine _mukhaddir_.

The root Kh-D-R carries meanings like
be numb, to be or become limp, benumbed, paralyzed.

_Hatruka_ has too many consonants to look like an Arabic word.


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## CuriousGeorgious

New to this forum, but thought I should add something I just came across in an academic text by John Renard, "Fighting words : religion, violence, and the interpretation of sacred texts" (2012, University of California Press), in which professor Jamsheed K. Choksy writes (p. 159): 

"Zoroastrian scripture postulates a universal battle at both the spiritual and the corporeal levels between two eternal principles: _asha_ (Avestan) or order (Old Persian: _arta...,)_ which is equated to righteousness, truth,  good, right, and holy; and _drug _(Avestan) or confusion (Old Persian: _drauga_, Middle Persian: _dro, druj_, New Persian: _doruq_, Gujarati: _drug_), which is equated to evil, lying, bad, wrong, and the profane."


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