# この胸



## Seikun

Hi.
Songs in japanese tend to have phrases like this: kono ude, kono mune, sono mune, etc. My question is, is this a way to express possession?

So if the singer says この it means "my" and when they say その it means "your" or any other possessive.

When singers say, for example この胸 are they saying "my chest"?

Lyrics:
この腕は夢を掴み取る為に
あるのだから　忘れないで

Is here the singer saying "my arms"?

Thanks in advance.


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## lammn

Seikun said:


> Hi.
> Songs in japanese tend to have phrases like this: kono ude, kono mune, sono mune, etc. My question is, is this a way to express possession?



Yes, it is possessive. Why not? 



Seikun said:


> When singers say, for example この胸 are they saying "my chest"?



You are correct about この means "my".

As for 胸, it can mean both "chest" or "heart".
After translating over hundred of Japanese song lyrics (most of them being love songs), I can tell you that in most cases この胸 means "my heart", but there might be a few cases where it means "my chest" as well.


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## uchi.m

It's some sort of _metaphor _in that no one's heart can embrace dreams like one's arms can.

Now, how can you translate that? If you translate _kono mune_ as_ my heart_, you keep the original poetry intact, I think, even though _my arms_ looks tempting, too.


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## Seikun

It is very common to find these expressions in japanese songs and always had this question going on in my head.

Thanks for the answers lammn and uchi.m.


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## The Mad King

On a related note, I vaguely remember seeing some animation where one of the bad guys referred to himself as この[character's name]. I imagine this is quite rare. I could very well be mistaken, but it sounds sorta like samurai-speak to me.


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## kenjoluma

Let's remind ourselves of the definition of この or これ.
They indicate something _near_ to speaker.

(eg. その, それ = something near to listener)

Unless you cut off somebody else's arms in your hand, of course, it means 'my arm'.


It's rather tempting to say この in lyrics or poetry, because otherwise, it becomes too long in Japanese. (ボクノ, オレノ, ワタシノ, even ワタクシノ... longer than two syllables)


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## lammn

uchi.m said:


> It's some sort of _metaphor _in that no one's heart can embrace dreams like one's arms can.



Even in English language, "heart" does not necessarily mean the physical heart.
According to this dictionary, "heart" can mean:



> 4. the center of emotion, especailly as contrasted to the head as the center of intellect.



This particular meaning of "heart" is the one I am refering to when I translate この胸.



kenjoluma said:


> It's rather tempting to say この in lyrics or poetry, because otherwise, it becomes too long in Japanese. (ボクノ, オレノ, ワタシノ, even ワタクシノ... longer than two syllables)



Great insight! I have never thought about this.


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## Seikun

The first time I heard such expressions was in a song called Namida Wa Shitte Iru which is part of the soundtrack of Rurouni Kenshin (anime series): _~Tsubasa ni kawaru no sa sono mune de~_

Then it became common to hear この胸, その胸, and other bodyparts with この and その.

Songs and poetry in Spanish also use demostratives pronouns to express the possessive, but is much less common than in Japanese (judging from music).

As for その, I guess dependind on context it may mean your, his, her, etc. Correct?

Thanks Kenjoluma and all the users^^


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## kenjoluma

Forgot to mention that: 'sono' (sorry, I can't type Japanese at the moment) indicates not only 'something close to listener', but also 'something speaker and listener know about'. Some people boldly translate 'sono' into 'the' in English. I can't help agreeing with them since definite articles imply something speakers agreed with listeners to talk about. (e.g. A man vs. The man)In short, 'sono mune' may not be 'your heart'. It can just mean 'the heart'. Please don't be fooled by someone's overgeneralized explanation. This(*) 'someone' is not even a native. (*) Look what I did, haha. I deliberately used 'this' to say 'I'.


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## lammn

kenjoluma said:


> In short, 'sono mune' may not be 'your heart'. It can just mean 'the heart'.



I think context is important to determine whether その胸 means "your heart", "his heart", "her heart", "their hearts" or "the heart (of somebody)".


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## uchi.m

Let's wait for Seikun to clear all doubts up.


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## Seikun

From all the posts I see その could be interpreted as your, his, etc. Just in case I found the lyrics to the song and will post an extract. If it helps to find context you can click the link below for the full lyrics.

信じていいよ 夢はやって来る 
君のためだけに 
泣いてもいいよ どんな哀しみも 
翼に変わるのさ その胸で


http://www.kasi-time.com/item-15605.html


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