# Invent, uitvinden



## ThomasK

After that 'discovery' I thought of creating something new, as in* (a) invent things (lit.)*, or *(b) make up stories (fig. 'invent'...)* 

So: how do you translate _invent,_ lit. and fig ? Do you have non-Latin/non-Greek words? 

English: 
a - in-vent (in-come, I believe, lit.)
b - make up

Dutch: 
a - uit-vinden (out-find), 
b - verzinnen (in fiction : zin/ sense, use one's sense(s)/ mind [?] to 'find out' so to speak 

Just fun to see what kind of phrasal verbs or other metaphors you use...


----------



## Awwal12

*Russian:*
a) to invent

1. to invent = to create
изобретать /izobret*a*t'/; also "to devise", "to contrive"; contains the prefix "out-"; the root is rare and archaic, with unclear etymology.
"изобретать велосипед" - lit. "to invent a bicycle" (≈ Eng. "to re-invent the wheel").

2. to invent = to fabricate
1) выдумывать /vyd*u*myvat'/; also "to make up", "to fabricate"; literally - "to outthink".
2) сочинять /sochiny*a*t'/; also "to make up", "to write" (about a poet), "to compose" (about a composer); literally - "to withmake" (related with archaic Russian /chin*i*t'/ - to make).
3) измышлять /izmyshly*a*t'/; also "to contrive", "to fabricate" (some false statements); literal meaning is equal to /vyd*u*myvat'/, despite another root and prefix.

b) to make up - look at 2.1 and 2.2. This English verb has ~10 other meanings ("let's make it up", "these articles make up a whole book", etc.), but I suppose you aren't interested in them.


----------



## apmoy70

In Greek:
To Invent->the verb is εφευρίσκω (efe'vrisko) from the ancient ἐφευρίσκω (epʰeū'riskō).
Preposition ἐπί-, e'pi- (on, upon, at, by, near, over, on top of, toward, against, among) that becomes ἐφ-, epʰ- before an aspirated vowel + εὑρίσκω, eū'riskō (to find). 
Lit. "to over-find".
To make up (figurative _invent_)->the verb is επινοώ (epino'o) from the ancient ἐπινοέω (epino'eō) [uncontracted]/ἐπινοῶ (epinŏ'ō) [contracted].
Preposition ἐπί-, e'pi- (on, upon, at, by, near, over, on top of, toward, against, among) + νοῦς (mind, intellect).
Lit. "to contrive".
However, "εφευρίσκω" can be used for "to make something up" too (e.g we say "εφευρίσκω δικαιολογία-efe'vrisko ðiceolo'ʝia"->"to make up an excuse")

[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
[c] is a voiceless palatal plosive
[ʝ] is a voiced palatal fricative


----------



## rusita preciosa

Awwal12 said:


> изобретать /izobret*a*t'/; also "to devise", "to contrive"; contains the prefix "out-"; the root is rare and archaic, with unclear etymology.


That's why I deleted my post. I wasn't sure if *izobretat' *was: 

iz-obretat = *out-get*, where *iz-* means "out, "from within" and *-obretat'* means "to get", "to come into possession") 
or
izo-bretat' = *out-wander*, whete izo- means "out" and *-bretat'* has the same root as *-bresti* (roam, walk, wander)


----------



## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> After that 'discovery' I thought of creating something new, as in* (a) invent things (lit.)*, or *(b) make up stories (fig. 'invent'...)*



*Finnish*: a) keksiä, b) keksiä or sepittää

Etymologically speaking, _keksi_ is "a hook used in log driving". "Sepittää" may have been derived from _seppä _'blacksmith' -- but the probability of this is just under 50 % for me. I shouldn't even say things like that without being sure about them. 

But don't take the verbs too literally without consulting the following quotation:



> _You can't derive meanings of words from their etymology. They are born in practice. Etymology is a linguistic concept. You can't, for example, figure out the meaning of the Finnish words "tieto"* and "keksiä" by using "tie"** and picking things out from water (cf. noun "keksi"). They have become abstract from their concrete meanings._


(by nickname "Kyynikko" on 6.5.2004, http://www.vapaa-ajattelijat.fi/keskustelu/read.php?3,17276,page=2)

I love the era of the Internet -- you need not always think by yourself but may just quote the others .
____
* = knowledge, ** = road, way


----------



## ThomasK

Awwal12 said:


> *Russian:*
> 
> b) to make up - look at 2.1 and 2.2. This English verb has ~10 other meanings ("let's make it up", "these articles make up a whole book", etc.), but I suppose you aren't interested in them.


 
Mind you, Awwal, I am interested in too many things, but here, indeed, I wish to keep things under control ! ;-)

@Awwal/ Maroseika: is there somethinglike *'out-wander'* meaning _invent_ ? 

@Apmoy : the '*over*think' seems somewhat unuseful, or maybe it is like *'make up*' (we could perhaps say *'opdissen'* here in Dutch: bring on the table ['dis' being the old, formal word for 'table']; it could mean 'make up')

@Sakvaka: I suddenly remember *käännäkeksi*, I think, translation. Here we have this 'keksi' again, don't we ? But I agree: you always have to be careful with etymology, but in some cases it is quite clear - as in the above, I believe. (Certainly in my Dutch examples, where you discover metaphors, not 'real' etymology)


----------



## hui

> I suddenly remember *käännäkeksi*, I think, translation. Here we have this 'keksi' again, don't we ?


No, we don't. *Käännäkeksi* is nonsense at best. But since it is formed incorrectly, it is not even nonsense.


----------



## ThomasK

Good Lord, I am sorry! I thought I had remembered the word I had read for translation in Finnish. I have just checked and it should have been *käännöksesi,* so I read. . But *ksesi* is not **keksi*, I agree. Please bear with others interested in your language !


----------



## Maroseika

rusita preciosa said:


> That's why I deleted my post. I wasn't sure if *izobretat' *was:
> 
> iz-obretat = *out-get*, where *iz-* means "out, "from within" and *-obretat'* means "to get", "to come into possession")
> or
> izo-bretat' = *out-wander*, whete izo- means "out" and *-bretat'* has the same root as *-bresti* (roam, walk, wander)


Acc. to Vasmer the word is connected with 'obresti' - to find, to obtain. 
It is not connected with 'bresti', because the latter is from брод (ford).
Semantics, close to very different languages (cf. Dutch uit-vinden, Eng. in-vent, Fr. in-venter, etc.), may mean the Russian word is just a calque as well as in all these languages, originating from the  Lat. _in-ventus_. < in + venire.


----------



## ThomasK

Just one question, Maroseika. I notice you are using the word 'calque' very often when referring to Russian: did it happen, or has it happened very often in Russian ?


----------



## enoo

ThomasK said:


> After that 'discovery' I thought of creating something new, as in* (a) invent things (lit.)*, or *(b) make up stories (fig. 'invent'...)*



French is not very interesting here, as the verb "*inventer*" is used in both cases.
There's a special verb for "making up stories/lies", but not used often: *affabuler*, it comes from fable, so the meaning is more or less "making up a fable".


----------



## rusita preciosa

Maroseika said:


> Acc. to Vasmer the word is connected with 'obresti' - to find, to obtain.


I knew you wouldn't let us down!!


----------



## sakvaka

hui said:


> No, we don't. *Käännäkeksi* is nonsense at best. But since it is formed incorrectly, it is not even nonsense.



Well, not absolute nonsense: _"turn the bisquit" _

_Käännös _is the correct basic form, as ThomasK already noticed.


----------



## ThomasK

'Affabuler' is quite nice as a word. It reminds me of my 'verzinnen' in #1.


----------



## Outsider

enoo said:


> French is not very interesting here, as the verb "*inventer*" is used in both cases.
> There's a special verb for "making up stories/lies", but not used often: *affabuler*, it comes from fable, so the meaning is more or less "making up a fable".


Same in Portuguese:

_*inventar*_ for inventing,

_*efabular*_ for concocting a fable.


----------



## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Just one question, Maroseika. I notice you are using the word 'calque' very often when referring to Russian: did it happen, or has it happened very often in Russian ?


Yes, you are quite right, there is a great lot of calques in Russian. The ancient calques are of Greek origin, then German (mostly 18th cent.) and French (19th cent.); and these are not only the calques of the words but of the whole expressions. I'm not sure however this is not the due place to discuss this very interesting subject now and here.


----------



## ThomasK

No, no, don't ! ;-) I just wanted to know if there were so many. Maybe at some other place, in another thread...


----------



## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> @Apmoy : the '*over*think' seems somewhat unuseful, or maybe it is like *'make up*' (we could perhaps say *'opdissen'* here in Dutch: bring on the table ['dis' being the old, formal word for 'table']; it could mean 'make up')


Actually, εφευρίσκω->ἐπί-, e'pi- (on, upon, at, by, near, over, on top of, toward, against, among) + εὑρίσκω, eū'riskō (to find), can be lit. translated as "to find more" or "to find over"


----------



## ger4

ThomasK said:


> *(a) invent things (lit.), or
> (b) make up stories (fig. 'invent'...)
> 
> *Dutch:
> a - uit-vinden (out-find),
> b - verzinnen (in fiction : zin/ sense, use one's sense(s)/ mind [?] to 'find out' so to speak


German:
a. to invent (something) - (etwas) erfinden - lit.: 'to (er-~out-)*find (something)'
b. to make up (something) - sich (etwas) ausdenken - lit.: 'to out-think oneself (something)'
... another term for b, less frequently used: (etwas) fabulieren - lit.: ~  'making up a fable' 

* er- is one of those prefixes that are very hard to translate. It often expresses a change of state, a process leading to a finite state or (the beginning) of an action with a specific target. The reason why it can fulfil so many functions is perhaps the fact that it is derived from several different prefixes: Old High German ar-, er-, ir- and ur-. The last one, ur-, must have had a similar function as Latin ex-, Swedish ur-, modern German aus- and Dutch uit-...   


Awwal12 said:


> Russian: [...] 1) выдумывать /vyd*u*myvat'/; also "to make up", "to fabricate"; literally - "to outthink".[...]





enoo said:


> (French): [...] There's a special verb for "making up stories/lies", but not used often: affabuler, it comes from fable, so the meaning is more or less "making up a fable".


----------



## 810senior

ThomasK said:


> After that 'discovery' I thought of creating something new, as in* (a) invent things (lit.)*, or *(b) make up stories (fig. 'invent'...)*
> 
> So: how do you translate _invent,_ lit. and fig ? Do you have non-Latin/non-Greek words?
> 
> English:
> a - in-vent (in-come, I believe, lit.)
> b - make up
> 
> Dutch:
> a - uit-vinden (out-find),
> b - verzinnen (in fiction : zin/ sense, use one's sense(s)/ mind [?] to 'find out' so to speak
> 
> Just fun to see what kind of phrasal verbs or other metaphors you use...



In Japanese: (I think these examples are a bit distant from the west... we rarely use preposition like out or in for the element comprising of compound words)

as in (a) meaning:
発明する_hatsumei-suru_ = hatsu(to reveal), mei(light, glitter), suru(to do, to perform) lit.to reveal the light(c.f. come to light)
創案するsouan-suru =sou(to create), an(matter, view), suru(to do, to perform) lit.to create one's view[matter]
思いつくomoitsuku = omoi(inf. omou=to think, to envision), tsuku(to stick, to adhere) lit.think and stick(either stick to thinking, mind)

as in (b) meaning: (it is meaning of fabrication, forge, fake, isn't it?)
でっち上げるdecchiageru = ageru(to raise, to hold up) I don't know the etymology of left part _decchi_.
捏造するnetsuzousuru = netsu(to fabricate), zou(to create), suru(to do, to perform) lit.to fabricate and create (something)
*Each element of Japanese Chinese-characters compounds is sometimes related with the parallel. (I've heard the same one in German compounds as far as I'm aware)


There are more examples above but I can't somehow recall other verbs.


----------



## Encolpius

*Hungarian *

erfinden -- feltalál [fel - up + talál - find; that would be "auffinden in German ] 
sich ausdenken -- kitalál [ki- out + talál - find; the same as in German]


----------



## bibax

Czech:

a) vynalézati _impf._, vynalézti _perf._ (prefix vy- out, nalézati/nalézti = to find);
vynalezl kolo = he invented bicycle; he reinvented the wheel;

b) vymýšleti _impf._ (prefix vy- out, mysleti = think), (vy)bájiti (báj = fable, mythos), (vy)fabulovati;
vymýšlí (si) báchorky = he makes up tall (cock-and-bull) stories = he lies;

We often use perfective vymysleti for 'to invent' (vynalezl/vymyslel parní stroj = he invented steam engine).


----------



## bazq

Hebrew:
"Invent" lit. = המציא [himtsi].
the root is m-ts-' (revolves around finding and searching) in the causative verbal pattern hiXXiX (hif'il), which gives the meaning of "to make something be found".

"Invent" fig. can either be המציא, like the lit. meaning, or a different root b-d-h/y which denotes "fiction","fabrication".
used in the Qal verbal pattern: הוא בדה [hu bada] = "he made up".


----------

