# Swedish: "Min lille son", adjectives in the definite form



## Hanq

Hi,

I'm trying to learn Swedish for a couple of months now, and was wondering about the phrase "min lille son" I heard recently.
I googled around and found out that adjectives in the definite form end with an "-e" (instead of "-a") when they are relating to a male person. My question is however whether this is commonly used.
Rosetta Stone used to teach me that saying "den gamla mannen" is OK (and as far as I remember they didn't use the "-e" endings there).
Is it more of a regional thing then? More formal maybe? Or is it also standard in everyday, casual conversations?


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## BlueSuede

I some parts of Sweden "den lilla mannen" is used, in other parts "den lille mannen". So yes, it is a regional thing.
This has been discussed here often which of the alternatives is Standard Swedish. Let's not burden this thread with this. In Sweden you can use both.


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## AutumnOwl

There was a discussion on this thread, http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2260660 , about whether to use adjectives ending with an -a or an -e when talking about a male person. There are dialects where it's more common to use the -e ending for adjectives even if not speaking about something male (sometimes even about females), for example the Gotland dialect, so there is no need to worry about the which to use.


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## Hanq

OK then, thank you.
I noticed the thread you posted a link to, but at this stage I still feel safer asking a question (and receving the answer) in English.

One last question though: which form would a native Stockholmer normally use?


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## Tjahzi

There is no consistency to be found regarding this issue. One of the few things that can be said with some certainty is that the _-e_ forms are more likely in spoken languages and among older people (the older, the more likely). That said, the answer to your last question is most likely _-a_ (then again, you should specify whether you mean spoken or written language), but most importantly: most people aren't aware of which form they use (and as such this is really a minor issue).


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## Hanq

I was thinking of informal conversations.


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## Tjahzi

Well, most people are more or less likely to use any of them. If you really want a clear answer, go with _-e _in spoken and _-a_ in written.


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## Hanq

Okay then.
Thanks for all the info. I appreciate it.


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## BlueSuede

I would say that "den lille pojken" (and "den lilla flickan") is Standard (written) Swedish. No reference I've seen contradicts this. Prove me wrong, and I will gladly change my view in this matter.

Curiosity: The famous song by Cacka Israelsson: "Gamle svarten" (kamrat på vida färden, den bäste här i världen, etc...) was written initially (1954) "Gaml*a* svarten". But because it was considered dialectal (spoken in the region where Israelsson lived) it was changed to "Gaml*e* svarten" as to be Standard Swedish.


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## zyzzy

Tjahzi said:


> Well, most people are more or less likely to use any of them. If you really want a clear answer, go with _-e _in spoken and _-a_ in written.


I would recommend the opposite, actually, using -e in written and -a or -e in spoken. If I read a book or newspaper article, for example, where the author wrote "den gamla mannen", I would conclude that the author did not grasp Swedish completely, and I would think less of him, for implicitly pretending that he did.

If you're learning Swedish, however, you can use the -a everywhere to make things simpler, and no one will care.


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## Ben Jamin

So there is no agreement among the Swedes? It reminds about the situation in Norway. But here we have at least Per Egil Hegge we can rely on as a correctness guru.


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## BlueSuede

"'Never discuss politics or religion' is a good advice to preserve a good spirit among people", it is commonly said. I'm inclined  to extend this saying to include language usage too. Especially when two language purists meet, then the discussion of matters can be infinite in length. Sometimes when one of them think that his dialect in particular is the correct one and shoud be considered being Standard Swedish.

Språkrådet is a good source to use when in dispute of these kind of matters. I searched for 'lille' in Språklådan. This is what språkrådet says in the matter: (http://www.sprakradet.se/1950)


> fråga
> Heter det lille vän eller lilla vän?
> svar
> Det beror på om vännen är av manligt eller kvinnligt kön.
> 
> Adjektiv på -a, som lilla, används för kvinnliga personer och personer av okänt kön. Om man inte vet vem den lilla vännen är, blir det alltså a-form, liksom om den är av kvinnligt kön.
> 
> Böjningen med -e används uteslutande för att syfta på personer av manligt kön: lille vän, lille gubben och Lille Skutt är alla av manligt kön.
> 
> I östra och norra Sverige används ofta a-formen också för personer av manligt kön, särskilt i talspråk och ledig stil. A-form för manliga individer är alltså en fråga om regionalt språkbruk och stil.


This answers directly the original question of this thread: Is it "den lilla mannen" or "den lille mannen"? 'Mannen' is definitely masculinum, no doubt about it, therefore in Standard Swedish it should be "den lille mannen". 'den lilla mannen is regional. Says SpråkRådet.

I hope this posting concludes the discussion.


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## Tjahzi

This discussion was conclude when we established that there is no coherence on the issue.


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