# A helping hand and loneliness



## Porteño

Hi one and all,

Having been a regular contributor to these forums for about six months, I have come to the conclusion that the reasons why people consult them are as varied as the number of foreros. It is apparent that an interest in, or a need to use a language is common to all, but there is also another factor which I think might be as important as any, and that is the idea of a 'helping hand'.

This comes in two forms; those who give it and those who seek it. There are almost as many of one as the other and incredibly from all corners of the Earth. The encouraging fact is that the helpers exist at all and furthermore, are apparently willing to altruistically give their time and energy to help the seekers. And this for no other reward than the inner satisfaction of having helped some 'unknown' person who they will, in all probability, never set eyes on, from the other side of the planet (or even perhaps, next door) to solve their language problems.

It occurs to me however, that there might be another factor involved in all of this, and that is a degree of loneliness and a need to communicate with others which may be denied them in other forms for some reason or other. I know that the rules insist that 'threaders' should consult dictionaries and other sources of reference before posting a question but I wonder perhaps, that those who simply ask a question without apparently having made any attempt to find the answer themselves are not just bone lazy but need a 'helping hand'. They may or may not be lonely, although I think this may be an important factor, but they really need a personal contact for their query rather than the impersonal consulting of dictionaries and the web. I know that on many occasions I have replied with a curt reference to the rules, or simply a website, but on others I have had a feeling that the inquirer needed a little more than a simple answer to their question and, who knows, one's answer may have solved more problems than that posed by the question?

As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.         

Do others agree with my thoughts. I should be most interested to hear your views.


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## Victoria32

Porteño said:


> ....a need to communicate with others which may be denied them in other forms for some reason or other. I know that the rules insist that 'threaders' should consult dictionaries and
> 
> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.
> 
> Do others agree with my thoughts. I should be most interested to hear your views.


As an asker, I feel the need to communicate rather than just consult the dictionary, (although I will do that first) because sometimes the phrase I am reading is idiomatic, and what I get from the dictionary, sometimes does not make sense. 

As a helper, part of it is altruism, part is that I trained as an ESOL teacher and as "the bottom has dropped out of the market" (so our newspapers say) I want to teach - and this is a chance. 

Also, there is a feeling of isolation that is overcome by being on here... 

Vicky


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## danielfranco

And of course, there's a few of us (or maybe just me) that can't possibly shut up for a minute, and have to find outlets of expression. I think in some cases (certainly in mine), the helping hand thing is just a rationalization of the benefit or usefulness of all the hours of my life I've spent glued to the monitor reading and writing about myself and my thoughts on this site.
The loneliness issue, I think, is a paradox in a forum like this: like it has been discussed before, some of us assume a different persona in these forums. We do not share personal information (for fear of cyber ID theft and other security concerns). We are in fact isolated from each other by very sizable obstacles. And, at the same time, there's the fact of the apparent disconnect with the people who might actually be in our vicinity, in order to better concentrate on not making typos or twisting the words sufficiently to avoid showing out true colors, sometimes.

But, for all the people in the forums that actually come here in an altruistic spirit, I thank you, because you compensate for all the selfishness that people like me bring here.


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## .   1

Porteño said:


> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.


I enjoy altruism, it feels much better on both sides than being a bitch and it generally takes more effort to be bitchy.
My bog Irish grandfather convinced me that every time fortune favours me I must give a little of it away to a stranger or fortune would never even look at me again.  It had to be a stranger to make sure that nothing of that gift flowed back.
I have been fortunate in a number of areas and one of them is the English language as it is spoken plus a vast amount of trivial information crammed into my skull that is otherwise useless.
There is not as much actual anonymity in this place.  To be sure, actual I.D. is guarded but personality and emotions are soon revealed and it is fascinating to be in a place with such a disparate group of people and be virtually safe even though the members of this forum run the gamut from almost saint to virtual sociopath but the end result is still just pixels on a screen.
The people here are the most fascinating game in town and I am enjoying participating but I am deriving much more pleasure from observing.

.,,


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## gaer

Porteño said:


> Hi one and all,
> 
> Having been a regular contributor to these forums for about six months, I have come to the conclusion that the reasons why people consult them are as varied as the number of foreros. It is apparent that an interest in, or a need to use a language is common to all, but there is also another factor which I think might be as important as any, and that is the idea of a 'helping hand'.
> 
> This comes in two forms; those who give it and those who seek it.


What about those of us who are both seeking help AND giving it? 

I would say that those of us who are fascinated with written language are unlikely to find any other place that is as likely to give us a chance to meet others with the same interest.

I see the discussion of countless things here as a unique opportunity to talk to people in places I will probably never have a chance to visit.

I have to talk all day. It's my job. I have to explain to people how to do things. I have to remain patient, and it is my job to "be the giver". It's also a very "verbal" job.

Coming here is a total change of pace. Silence! No music, not talking, and no chance of having to listen to people talk who are not really listening. 

Gaer


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## xarruc

There's also the challenge. You have a go and see if someone corrects you. Thats true of all the forums, including the cultural one.


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## agliagli

Porteño said:


> Hi one and all,
> Do others agree with my thoughts. I should be most interested to hear your views.


Hello Porteño!
I think you are right in the sense that internet in general makes think that the world is at your door, and sometimes prevent you from asking your "teaching BODY" or student fellows. I would say this is the negative aspect of it. The positive aspect is that asking a question on a www forum, you have the possibility to add more expressions and THEN discuss it with your teachers, your friends, etc. 

As for loneliness, I think the factor exists. But I doubt that any forum can solve it... since our presence here is just made of "little posts" frangmented here and there... Moreover, we cannot hear the person who address us, and might be induced in useless long explanations to say that we were intended no harm...

As a helper, I always ask myself the question if I am the right person to answer. Otherwise, I just go and hope other contributors will come and I become unwittingly a help seeker too!  I mean, I have learnt something about my own mothertongue... As a help seeker, I feel always grateful to the helpers wherever there are, whoever they are...


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## Super Wombat

Technically I was looking for something like this for years and years... it would have made me a much better translator, no doubt, and much quicker... 

On the receiving side, what I enjoy is the spirit, the fun, the wit. I love reading so many different ways of expression. Some so elegant and refined, others so culturally knowledgable, and many other shades of expression... I think its also a way of diving into a world which is so full of life... an being able to share a similar passion in some ways... we must be crazy! A passion for Words!!!

To help out is either something spontaneous or it is contrived for a thousand reasons... and not just for loneliness. 
A French sage, Dr Serge Raynaud de la Férrière, once wrote that everything we do is motivated by "interest"... for what we can get out of it.

My guess is everybody is getting something different!


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## RIU

Hola, 

El tema es interesante, 

En cuanto a la soledad, coincido con Agliagli, dudo que este o cualquier otro forum sea la solución. Más bien sea causa -o solución- de aparentar ser alguien quien no eres, pero esto se escapa de mis conocimientos con lo que lo dejo aquí.

Personalmente, por cuestion de trabajo hago muchas consultas en WR, aprovechándome del esfuerzo y conocimiento de los demás, así que creo que es de recibo colaborar -en mi medida- a la solución de consultas. No lo considero en mi caso altruista sino un intercambio justo. Es decir, mi ego al igual que el de la mayoría estoy seguro, no necesita -gracias a Dios- reconocimiento alguno. 

El problema está... en que te enganchas. A ver, no es un vicio, pero cuesta no dar la repasada por ahí. A veces ves alguno que te pica la curiosidad, y ya estás hasta las cejas!


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## liulia

I only discovered this site recently, and I only came upon this particular discussion today! 

I hadn't thought about my reasons for joining - maybe at first it was simply curiosity.

But reading other people's responses, I realised that all of the reasons mentioned by others are probably true for me, to some degree. As a freelance translator I spend many hours a day alone, at my desk; if a particular document is both long and urgent, I can be stuck here for hours a day, day after day... and  a time comes when solitude ceases to be "the balm of lonelyness."

_Ceci dit,_ I enjoy the challenge of trying to answer some of the questions I find in the threads.  I don't always have time to give much thought to my answers, so I've only tried to tackle a few so far. But it's a bit like finding a piece in somone else's jigsaw puzzle as i walk by - it's a good feeling!
It's also good to know that if i happen to make a mistake, there will probably be someone else to notice, so I'm getting more confident about giving  advice - I tend to worry about that!

When it comes to asking - the main motivation, for me, is a feeling that if only I could talk this over with another linguist, I would find the answer! The mere fact of asking, trying to explain what exactly I'm looking for, what directions I'm exploring, all of that helps me find the right word. Of course, so do people's suggestions!

Finally - and this may sound corny - above all, what I like is the feeling of solidarity - people all over the world  trying to solve each other's little problems! There is a great deal of totally gratuitous generosity out there, as I've already seen in the few weeks since I joined, and it is a comforting feeling!

liulia


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## Mate

RIU said:


> "...Más bien sea causa -o solución- de aparentar ser alguien quien no eres, pero esto se escapa de mis conocimientos con lo que lo dejo aquí..."
> 
> "...El problema está... en que te enganchas. A ver, no es un vicio, pero cuesta no dar la repasada por ahí. A veces ves alguno que te pica la curiosidad, y ya estás hasta las cejas!..."


 
Puedo hacer mías las dos aseveraciones arriba planteadas. 

A veces siento que estoy liberándome aquí de un poquito de mi esquizofrenia, pero jugando: no trato de hacer creer a nadie que soy otra persona distinta de la persona que soy en la vida real.

_I can refer to both the above mentioned statements. _

_Sometimes I feel that the Forums allow me to get rid of a little bit of my schizophrenic aspect, but it's only a game: I try not to lead anybody to believe that I'm a person different from that that I really am._ 

Mateamargo


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## ireney

Well when it comes to loneliness, I admit that since I work from home on my PC these days and live alone participating in a forum helps with being bored when I have nothing to do or when I get fed up with reading bad English/Greek from people who are supposed to be extremely good at both.
It doesn't make me feel more or less lonely though, internet seldom has done so but then going out with my friends, going over my parents house or reading a book hasn't done so either. (Amazingly inane quasi-philosophical statement follows) Loneliness is up to a point a state of mind after all.

Why do I like to help? I suppose it has to do with my being first and foremost a teacher, with liking to help and explain things, with the process of learning yourself while you help someone else and with the general feeling this forum gives.

I don't ask for help much since I am a consummate lurker in the languages I don't know well enough and by searching I can find answers to most if not all of my questions and by random reading learn a lot I haven't even thought to ask.
In English however I have asked questions which no dictionary and very few Greeks could answer. Idiomatic use of the language, badly constructed sentences or a word that has no direct equivalent in Greek. To translate any of the above you need to understand the meaning and the feel of these in a non superficial level. That needs interaction with native speakers. And believe me, I have yet to find another place when you ask people a question like this one (nevermind the others!) and they do their utmost to help


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## liulia

I looked up that link, Ireney - it is truly amazing! 
I think I'm getting hooked to this site!!! 
I'm nowhere as learned or clever as most of those contributors (despite all my years as an interpreter and translator), but I do enjoy "listening" in!


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## TRG

Porteño said:


> Hi one and all,
> 
> Having been a regular contributor to these forums for about six months, I have come to the conclusion that the reasons why people consult them are as varied as the number of foreros. It is apparent that an interest in, or a need to use a language is common to all, but there is also another factor which I think might be as important as any, and that is the idea of a 'helping hand'.
> 
> This comes in two forms; those who give it and those who seek it. There are almost as many of one as the other and incredibly from all corners of the Earth. The encouraging fact is that the helpers exist at all and furthermore, are apparently willing to altruistically give their time and energy to help the seekers. And this for no other reward than the inner satisfaction of having helped some 'unknown' person who they will, in all probability, never set eyes on, from the other side of the planet (or even perhaps, next door) to solve their language problems.
> 
> It occurs to me however, that there might be another factor involved in all of this, and that is a degree of loneliness and a need to communicate with others which may be denied them in other forms for some reason or other. I know that the rules insist that 'threaders' should consult dictionaries and other sources of reference before posting a question but I wonder perhaps, that those who simply ask a question without apparently having made any attempt to find the answer themselves are not just bone lazy but need a 'helping hand'. They may or may not be lonely, although I think this may be an important factor, but they really need a personal contact for their query rather than the impersonal consulting of dictionaries and the web. I know that on many occasions I have replied with a curt reference to the rules, or simply a website, but on others I have had a feeling that the inquirer needed a little more than a simple answer to their question and, who knows, one's answer may have solved more problems than that posed by the question?
> 
> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.
> 
> Do others agree with my thoughts. I should be most interested to hear your views.


 
This is no small thing. The enjoyment and satisfaction that people get from helping others, even anonomously, is an essential part of being human. But, if we are doing it anonomously, it can only mean that we are doing it for ourselves. If I help you, it helps me directly psychically and indirectly by making the world a better place (one hopes).


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## Super Wombat

Porteño said:


> Hi one and all,
> 
> "...I know that the rules insist that 'threaders' should consult dictionaries and other sources of reference before posting a question but I wonder perhaps, that those who simply ask a question without apparently having made any attempt to find the answer themselves are not just bone lazy but need a 'helping hand'. ...
> 
> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it. "
> 
> 
> I think there might also be a technical consideration for some 'threaders' as to the difficulty of navigating WR at the beginning in order to get the best out of it...
> I can understand why a person would just ask a question without seeking a more in-depth answer for themselves
> I don't know whether the dictionary is renewed as new words come in... but it seems to me that, either I haven't figured out how to use the Dictionary correctly, or that it is somewhat limited... whereas the Forums work... and exceedingly well.
> 
> e tra parentesi...(I think the actual structure of the web site is terrible and could really do with an overhaul!)
> 
> On the philosophical side of things, I'm sure that the simple search for a human contact, rather than tapping in with a dictionary, is definitely fulfilled by a Forum: the interaction and discussion that occurs creates an incredible surge of sharing and generosity and the outcome is not just learning or receiving an answer, but the enthusiasm, which is infectious... contagious and actually extremely powerful...
> The positivity so often "generated" in the forums is not something that everybody comes across during everyday life...


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## Super Wombat

. said:


> I enjoy altruism, it feels much better on both sides than being a bitch and it generally takes more effort to be bitchy.
> My bog Irish grandfather convinced me that every time fortune favours me I must give a little of it away to a stranger or fortune would never even look at me again. It had to be a stranger to make sure that nothing of that gift flowed back.
> I have been fortunate in a number of areas and one of them is the English language as it is spoken plus a vast amount of trivial information crammed into my skull that is otherwise useless.
> There is not as much actual anonymity in this place. To be sure, actual I.D. is guarded but personality and emotions are soon revealed and it is fascinating to be in a place with such a disparate group of people and be virtually safe even though the members of this forum run the gamut from almost saint to virtual sociopath but the end result is still just pixels on a screen.
> The people here are the most fascinating game in town and I am enjoying participating but I am deriving much more pleasure from observing.
> 
> .,,


 

God bless bog Irish grandfathers!!!
I know I'm Australian and I should know what it means... but what is "bog???"


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## emma42

A dear friend taught me that one is giving a gift to someone if one asks that someone for help, because it then allows them the opportunity to be altruistic and thus feel good.  So, helping or asking - it can all be good.


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## .   1

JustMarriedinVenice said:


> I know I'm Australian and I should know what it means... but what is "bog???"


My grandfather was first generation Irish Australian. He was born in Australia but his dad was born in the bog land of Ireland and my grandfather, dah, was more Irish than an Irish peat cutter. He constantly told tales of the old country and swore that he had his own leprechaun. I think that he really did believe in the little people (and if any of 'em are reading this I agree with him).
I have always understood bog Irish to refer to rural Irish rather than urban Irish people.

.,,


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## Mate

JustMarriedinVenice said:


> God bless bog Irish grandfathers!!!
> I know I'm Australian and I should know what it means... but what is "bog???"


 
May be an Argentine bloke can help you out.

*Bog Irish: *a person of common or low class Irish ancestry.[19][20] 
From: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...define+:+"bog+Irish"&hl=es&gl=ar&ct=clnk&cd=2

Cheers! - Mate


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## panjandrum

What hooked me first was how very kind people were when I asked a question. I've been in other forums where a newbie can expect to be smacked about a bit.

Then I found three strange things in these forums that I didn't really know before. 
There are people all around the world who still care about "good" English and enjoy talking about it. It's like a place of refuge for a word-lover.
There are students of English (native and non-native) from around the world whose knowledge of the technicalities of my language continues to amaze me. I have learnt more grammar since arriving here than ever before.
And most of all, the morass of apparently random stuff that has accumulated in my head over decades of reading, writing and speaking English seems to include things that other people find helpful.

So altogether, I can happily sit here for hours, not quite being anti-social in the other world, pottering around the threads. Occasional threads send me off on a mad hunt for some almost-forgotten idea. Others make me question deeply the way I've been using the language and search for logic behind habit. 

And of course, although no one ever chats here, there is a great deal of communication going on  

Never a dull moment


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## .   1

I agree whole heartedly with the forest man.  It is a pleasure to meet like minded people.

.,,


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Thanks for such an interesting thread, Porteño!

Something that never ceases to amaze me is how we, foreros, are constantly trying to 'unfold' the philosophical and psychological mysteries that keep these forums alive and beating strong... (Note threads like this, and this, for example) Now, to your statements... 


Victoria32 said:


> As an asker, I feel the need to communicate rather than just consult the dictionary, (although I will do that first) because *sometimes the phrase I am reading is idiomatic, and what I get from the dictionary, sometimes does not make sense*.


My case -as an asker- is somewhat similar. I mean, just check the threads I've started to the present: they can't be much more than 30, and they're mostly related to legal/financial terms translations (part of what I do for a living). Those translations must be PERFECT, and sometimes on-line dictionaries don't give me EXACTLY what I'm looking for. So, I truly needed personal contact and different opinions in, say, a 95% of my threads. 

A few other threads I've started (a handful, really) are either idiomatic questions, or congratulations to some fellow foreros (who have been like angels sent to help in one moment or another. God bless you all!). 


danielfranco said:


> And of course, there's a few of us (or maybe just me) that can't possibly shut up for a minute, and have to find outlets of expression.


 That possibly explains the rest of my posts...  Mainly, those are replies to cultural discussions, or to strangers in distress (waow, what a descriptive word for not finding the right word to express yourself). Now I think about it, it's a little bit... ehem... is there a milder word for insane? I mean, geez! 30 questions and 1,500+ replies? I really *can't* shut up! Daniel, seems to me that you're not alone... 


liulia said:


> I enjoy the challenge of trying to answer some of the questions I find in the threads. (...) it's a bit like finding a piece in somone else's jigsaw puzzle as i walk by - it's a good feeling!


That's so descriptive!  I think I concur...





. said:


> There is not as much actual anonymity in this place. To be sure, actual I.D. is guarded but personality and emotions are soon revealed and it is fascinating to be in a place with such a disparate group of people and be virtually safe even though the members of this forum run the gamut from almost saint to virtual sociopath but the end result is still just pixels on a screen.





. said:


> It is a pleasure to meet like minded people


(Just to be sure, Robert; do you mean almost saint, virtual sociopath, or right in between?)  


ireney said:


> Why do I like to help? I suppose it has to do with my being first and foremost a teacher, with liking to help and explain things, with the process of learning yourself while you help someone else and with the general feeling this forum gives.





gaer said:


> I see the discussion of countless things here as a unique opportunity to talk to people in places I will probably never have a chance to visit.





JustMarriedinVenice said:


> On the receiving side, what I enjoy is the spirit, the fun, the wit. I love reading so many different ways of expression. Some so elegant and refined, others so culturally knowledgable, and many other shades of expression... (.....)
> (...) The positivity so often "generated" in the forums is not something that everybody comes across during everyday life...


Oh, yeah...  


RIU said:


> En cuanto a la soledad, coincido con Agliagli, dudo que este o cualquier otro forum sea la solución. (...) El problema está... en que te enganchas. A ver, no es un vicio, pero cuesta no dar la repasada por ahí. A veces ves alguno que te pica la curiosidad, y ya estás hasta las cejas!


Yeah, I agree so much with both statements. I don't think loneliness is a determining factor in here. Perhaps, just in a way, assuming that you're crazy in love with words, languages, etc. It's great to be in a place where you can meet unbelievable amounts of people, from virtually everywhere, who actually share your rare fascination... 

Aaaand, this is definitely addictive! One could spend hours and hours in front of the screen, wondering why the heck I used to say that expression in this specific way, when it should be said that way, or repondering my opinions in whatever international issue, or finally understanding the basis for whatever reasoning that is opposites to mine... One just can't let it go!





JustMarriedinVenice said:


> My guess is everybody is getting something different


My guess is you're right...


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## fabianax

Porteño, I couldn´t agree more... in my case I don´t know which came first, if the will of sharing knowledge or the need to vanish loneliness...


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## agliagli

panjandrum said:


> What hooked me first was how very kind people were when I asked a question. I've been in other forums where a newbie can expect to be smacked about a bit.


And even if it happens that some thrust of artistic behaviour lead some people to _paint the lily_ , people here are too nice to forget about it...  and still keep helping.  This is truely a pleasure to help and be helped in the realm of words.


panjandrum said:


> So altogether, I can happily sit here for hours, not quite being anti-social in the other world, pottering around the threads. Occasional threads send me off on a mad hunt for some almost-forgotten idea. Others make me question deeply the way I've been using the language and search for logic behind habit.


Pour le côté "antisocial"... cela reste à vérifier.  J'adore votre compagnie car nous partageons la même passion, même s'il m'arrive de couper les cheveux en quatre ou de coiffer la giraffe (merci au fil de discussion français!  je connaissais pas l'expression moi-même...) et qui plus est,  de  "chinoiser" , je sais qu'il y a des gens très compréhensifs qui se réunissent pour défier les problèmes linguistiques. C'est une force non négligible qui peut porter les traducteurs et les étudiants à ne pas se sentir "isolés" lors de passages "difficiles" causés pas une surcharge de travail ou un surmenage. C'est en effet, une petite fenêtre sur le monde qui encourage à persévérer...


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## Etcetera

Porteño said:


> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.


I really enjoy helping people, no matter in what way. 
Loneliness? No, perhaps. I know other ways to communicate with people (although the pleasure of communicating with such witty and knowing people as the forer@s is undoubtedly one of the reasons why I like WR so much). When I am able to give an answer to a question asked by someone, be it a student of Russian here or a tourist in Peterhof, I can't help being pleased at my own knowledge and even proud of it. Call me egoistic, if you like, you won't be too far from the truth.


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## .   1

Etcetera said:


> Call me egoistic, if you like, you won't be too far from the truth.


G'day egoistic,
pleased to make your aquaintance. 

I think that you are being a bit hard to call yourself egoistic because you derive pleasure from helping people.  I like altruismer or altruista or altrula or maybe alltruther .

.,,


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## emma42

Etcetera, from what I glean of your character on these Forums, you are far from an egoist.

Oui, Karine98, je suis d'accord.


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## Chaska Ñawi

. said:


> I think that you are being a bit hard to call yourself egoistic because you derive pleasure from helping people.  I like altruismer or altruista or altrula or maybe alltruther .
> 
> .,,



At risk of being deleted by a fellow mod for chat, I like the word altrugether.


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## .   1

Chaska Ñawi said:


> At risk of being deleted by a fellow mod for chat, I like the word altrugether.


I quite like that.  Do altrugethers gather truth together?

.,,


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## emma42

Only if they're all called "Al".


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator toque firmly over ears:  back on track, please, folks.


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## gaer

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> _*Now I think about it*_, it's a little bit... ehem... is there a milder word for insane? I mean, geez! 30 questions and 1,500+ replies? I really *can't* shut up! Daniel, seems to me that you're not alone... That's so descriptive!  I think I concur...


Look at what I underlined. This is a perfect example of a potential topic, one that I have never seen. Are you aware that the omission of "that" in such an introductory phrase seems to be impossible in AE? I try to listen to as many books as possible, to pick up accents, inflections, and not long ago I realized that this little "that" is left out after "now" in BE but not in AE.

What does that have to do with loneliness? Well, I think we all can be lonely in different ways. If we have a passion for languages and what makes them work, doesn't it make us lonely to be deprived of the joy of discussing them with other people?

Perhaps some of our members have had the good fortune to have met many people with whom they can discuss such things, but I've had zero luck. The people I know in "real life" are not even AWARE that the kind of potential problems we discuss even exist. 

Gaer


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## mytwolangs

I tend to ask questions more than anything. 
About French, my learning langue.
I don't know what he means by loneliness really. Usually if I have French questions i will ask one of my French chat buddies, but if they are not about and I need to know something fast, i come in here.


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## emma42

Well, mytwolangs, I think there might be a different attitude towards the internet and Forums and chatrooms, depending on one's generation.

For those who have grown up with computers and the internet, they seem "natural", "obvious", they have always been there.  For those who have not, they can seem like a real gift, something unimaginable twenty,thirty or forty years ago.

For people who are housebound for various reasons (physical problems; psychological or psychiatric problems - agoraphobia, depression, anxiety) or people who, for whatever reason, are socially isolated, or are isolated from like-minded people, a Forum like this can help to assuage feelings of lonliness or isolation.


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## maxiogee

The word *bog* in English comes from the Irish word _bog_ (pronounced 'bug') meaning 'soft'. A bog is a wetland area with acidic peaty soil, which derives from millennia of fallen trees which have been semi-preserved. The process is akin to coal and petro-chemical deposition, but wetter.


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## Porteño

maxiogee said:


> The word *bog* in English comes from the Irish word _bog_ (pronounced 'bug') meaning 'soft'. A bog is a wetland area with acidic peaty soil, which derives from millennia of fallen trees which have been semi-preserved. The process is akin to coal and petro-chemical deposition, but wetter.


 
I guess this was a mailing error, or am I missing something?


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## maxiogee

Porteño said:


> I guess this was a mailing error, or am I missing something?



Yes.


JustMarriedinVenice said:


> God bless bog Irish grandfathers!!!
> I know I'm Australian and I should know what it means... but what is "bog???"


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## Trina

emma42 said:


> [...]
> For those who have grown up with computers and the internet, they seem "natural", "obvious", they have always been there.  For those who have not, they can seem like a real gift, something unimaginable twenty,thirty or forty years ago.[...]


Oh, how true! I have had access to the internet now for two years and I am constantly amazed at the wonder of it all.
I type in a question, press a button... and hey, presto!...within a few minutes, I am receiving answers from all around the world.
For those of us studying / brushing up on languages without the aid of a teacher, this does indeed seem like a real gift ... and I can confirm I never imagined this possibility even ten years ago!

JustMarriedInVenice (Congratulations!  ) suggested: 





> As for the 'helpers', loneliness might also be a factor in their need to share their knowledge with anonymity, I am not quite sure. Or maybe they are really altruistic and have no motives other than they enjoy giving a 'helping hand' to those who seek it.


 For me, it was guilt. It seemed to me that I was doing all the taking (asking) and not doing any giving. So, I started looking for a Forum where I could give something back (English only) and like Panjandrum said earlier, I found that "I have learnt more grammar since arriving here than ever before."



> Quoted from Gaer: The people I know in "real life" are not even AWARE that the kind of potential problems we discuss even exist.


I can't decide if this statement is funny or sad...
I mean, I feel sorry for these people.    They don't know what they are missing! 

As to the question of loneliness...
If this tool can give comfort to people who may be experiencing some degree of loneliness in their lives, whether it be short or long-term, then how marvelous is that!


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## geve

gaer said:


> Perhaps some of our members have had the good fortune to have met many people with whom they can discuss such things, but I've had zero luck. The people I know in "real life" are not even AWARE that the kind of potential problems we discuss even exist.


I agree with that! When I mention something about "this language forum I participate in", people usually say "oh, and what do you do on a language forum?" "Why, but discuss around language of course". Which gets me a puzzled look, most of the times. 

Also, helping others is of great help to me, too, for it provides me with a good opportunity to practice English, which I don't get to do that often lately. Languages are living - dictionary and books don't suffice. One needs to see how people use the language naturally. When I read a thread I don't learn only about the thread topic; I acquire common turns of speech and a general feel of the language. The helper gets helped too. Talk about a win-win situation!


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## emma42

Also, it's marvellous to read two or more native speakers (of a language foreign to oneself) debating and discussing the finer points of that language.  An invaluable insight.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Oui Emma24, je suis encore d'accord !
Oops!
Yes indeed Emma42, I concur again! 
As I said earlier, what a great support for language disabled like me to have the opportunity to read from natives and (too rarely?  ) write the language you are learning.
It is symmetric for my own language (French, if you haven't noticed yet!  ): I  love trying to make understand the wealth of my language to learners and trying to understand its tricky stuff myself.


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## Amityville

emma42 said:


> Also, it's marvellous to read two or more native speakers (of a language foreign to oneself) debating and discussing the finer points of that language. An invaluable insight.


 
Heartily agree, most valuable - and invaluable. And when it verges on 'chat' (good intelligent linguistic chat I mean) ..... In real life, there often just isn't time to register the turns of phrase at the same time as pursuing the conversation., bit like when you're learning to drive, having to change gear, press pedals and turn the wheel, and be aware of other traffic, all too much at once sometimes. But here you can take your time, re-winding and pausing, enjoying all the little gems that fall from the mouths of gifted natives having fun, smoothly manoeuvring around obstacles and out of tight spaces.  Am I getting carried away ?


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## Etcetera

emma42 said:


> Also, it's marvellous to read two or more native speakers (of a language foreign to oneself) debating and discussing the finer points of that language.  An invaluable insight.


Yes, indeed. 
I really like such discussions. I'm afraid it can be rather confusing for learners of the language, but natives seem to take pleasure in it!


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

geve said:


> I agree with that! When I mention something about "this language forum I participate in", people usually say "oh, and what do you do on a language forum?" "Why, but discuss around language of course". Which gets me a puzzled look, most of the times.


That sounds very familiar...  My fiancé is constantly saying to me: "So, again, you do *what* on that forum...?" 

It is a relief to know there are so many foreros who actually understand this "obsession" of mine with languages, discussions, and language discussions...  How amazing it is, knowing one belongs to this sort of community, where one can learn and teach, correct and be corrected, express oneself and listen to people, show a little dusty piece of one's culture to others and learn about theirs, savo(u)r -- different styles of writing, thinking, and even living... Boy, I could go on forever!





> When I read a thread I don't learn only about the thread topic; I acquire common turns of speech and a general feel of the language. The helper gets helped too. Talk about a win-win situation!


I might be wrong, but I think that's the main reason why there is a Cultural Forum in here. I mean, yes, there are other reasons, but if this is a language site, the idea is to exercize whatever language we are learning (or, we're in love with  ).





Amityville said:


> In real life, there often just isn't time to register the turns of phrase at the same time as pursuing the conversation., bit like when you're learning to drive, having to change gear, press pedals and turn the wheel, and be aware of other traffic, all too much at once sometimes. But here you can take your time, re-winding and pausing, enjoying all the little gems that fall from the mouths of gifted natives having fun, smoothly manoeuvring around obstacles and out of tight spaces. Am I getting carried away ?


Yes indeed, you are...  Don't we all get carried away whenever we hit a thread on this topic? 

Amityvillle, what a gorgeous post! Very graphic...  That's precisely what I'm talking about!


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## Cache

I am totally an asker and sometimes do not feel good when others do not have in mind I still learning and need help. Although native's reactions to learners who need explanations are sometimes aggressive, I ask questions since I am willing to learn and not to bother the others. I do not want to post how a native english speaker reacted the last week when I enquired about an assumption I had regarding one of her explanations (finally, I was right,she had made a mistake).

Nobody is perfect, neither learners nor natives


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## emma42

That is true, cache.  I am so sorry you had a bad experience with another forer@.  I hope it does not put you off continuing to ask questions.  You should visit French/English.  It's really friendly there!


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## Cache

I would visit French/English forum if I knew how to speak the former language hehe

There are many learners who do not understand at first, that's what happens to me. I need someone who feels like explaining why the things are as they are otherwise I seldom understand the topic totally. 

Personally, I am fond of this forum since it lets me talk and communicate with people from all around the world and see the differences between them, this is so-called multiculturalism.


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## winklepicker

Because of a health problem I have been unable to work for a year - or indeed to do anything much that is useful. In these circumstances, it's easy to think that one's life is pointless, and of no help to anyone. This forum has allowed me to feel that I am contributing something to somebody, and justifying to some small extent the space I take up on this beautiful planet of ours. I expect there may be others in a like situation.

Sadly, the health issue also means that I have sometimes expressed myself with more vehemence than is seemly, and been betrayed into childish anger. I apologise to any foreros I have upset, and to the mods who have had to delete my more intemperate posts.


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## emma42

Yes, many of us can be intemperate at times on the Forum.  We are only human, after all.

Winklepicker, I haven't seen any intemperate posts from you, but I have seen a lot of humour and intelligence and have benefitted from that.  So you _are_ justifying your small space.


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## Cache

You made me remember Emma: I know we are here to learn but Wouldn't some humour be better for the forum?  I do not know if some people here pretend to be serious or what, but some humour would not be bad, in my opinion.


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## emma42

Cache, I think there is loads of humour on the forum.  The trick is not to let things descend to "chat".  I think the right balance is to keep on-topic, but let a little humour in every now and then.  I should take my own advice.  I become far too chatty sometimes, but I do try to control myself most of the time!

The mods have a very difficult job.  Of course a little humour is good (and often edifying), but this is, first and foremost, a language discussion forum, not a humour-room.  I am addressing these remarks to myself as much as anyone else.


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## .   1

emma42 said:


> Winklepicker, I haven't seen any intemperate posts from you, but I have seen a lot of humour and intelligence and have benefitted from that. So you _are_ justifying your small space.


I agree most whole heartedly here.  I judge Winklepicker to be justified and commend he and his wit to wander the halls of WR for the foreseeable future.



Cache said:


> You made me remember Emma: I know we are here to learn but Wouldn't some humour be better for the forum? I do not know if some people here pretend to be serious or what, but some humour would not be bad, in my opinion.


Were there no humour here I would not be here.  I am often quite pleased that I do not eat or drink when I at WR because I would need a disposable keyboard.  I rather enjoy the slightly restrained atmosphere but that just means that you can't get away with prat falls and fart jokes but pretty much anything else is encouraged as long as you make a contribution to the topic at hand with your joke.  It's not necessarily easy but isn't that more fun?

.,,


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## emma42

. said:


> Well put, dotcommacomma.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Cache said:


> You made me remember Emma: I know we are here to learn but Wouldn't some humour be better for the forum? I do not know if some people here pretend to be serious or what, but some humour would not be bad, in my opinion.


Oh no, Cache. We don't _pretend_ to be serious... we _*are*_ serious!

How else do you explain threads like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and... (well, I think you get it) ? And, of course, this forum!

See, sometimes we're caught up in a bad mood, that's all. Doesn't that happen everywhere else?  Aaaaaand, some people are a real pain in the neck. Don't we find that kind of people elsewhere, too? 

My advice: don't worry, be happy. Give what you can, take what you need, and forget about the rest.

PS: My dear mods, this post is not off-topic. It is here to prove that some of us come to WR seeking for much more than "help with translation, please..."


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator Note:  Time to return to the topic, folks - otherwise it will be assumed that this thread has run its course.


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## Cache

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Oh no, Cache. We don't _pretend_ to be serious... we _*are*_ serious!
> 
> How else do you explain threads like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and... (well, I think you get it) ? And, of course, this forum!
> 
> See, sometimes we're caught up in a bad mood, that's all. Doesn't that happen everywhere else?  Aaaaaand, some people are a real pain in the neck. Don't we find that kind of people elsewhere, too?
> 
> My advice: don't worry, be happy. Give what you can, take what you need, and forget about the rest.
> 
> PS: My dear mods, this post is not off-topic. It is here to prove that some of us come to WR seeking for much more than "help with translation, please..."



Thanks for your words 

Returning to the topic, Have you ever thought that some people is lonely and find this forum as a place to forget the "outside" world?

It happens.

Languages appeal to most of us and that's the ground why we are here. This is the best place I know to learn language since we have turned this forum into the biggest community in Internet (about tongues). Not only do you learn English, Spanish or whatever, but also you exchange opinions and experiences 

My advice for those who feel disheartened is that they should not give up, go on, do not let anything stop you .


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## Super Wombat

winklepicker said:


> Because of a health problem I have been unable to work for a year - or indeed to do anything much that is useful. In these circumstances, it's easy to think that one's life is pointless, and of no help to anyone. This forum has allowed me to feel that I am contributing something to somebody, and justifying to some small extent the space I take up on this beautiful planet of ours. I expect there may be others in a like situation.
> 
> Sadly, the health issue also means that I have sometimes expressed myself with more vehemence than is seemly, and been betrayed into childish anger. I apologise to any foreros I have upset, and to the mods who have had to delete my more intemperate posts.


 
Dearest Winklepicker, 

I found your thread extremely touching and it clearly shows one of the reasons why we are here on this earth to help each other out and not just to think egoistically about our own selves.

Your contribution to this forum was for me an opportunity of a deeper reflection on life,
Many thanks, and _courage!_


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## panjandrum

Like winklepicker, and I am sure many others, I have found the companionship of WordReference to be a real gift in very difficult circumstances. Here are real people wanting and willing to communicate at any time of day and through the darkest hours of the night. No probing questions about "how are you feeling." No undercurrents of the anxieties shared but unspoken. No brittle light-hearted chatter. Powerful medicine.



			
				Cache said:
			
		

> I know we are here to learn but wouldn't some humour be better for the forum? I do not know if some people here pretend to be serious or what, but some humour would not be bad, in my opinion.


As for humour, I find the best humour around the edges of the more serious business of the forum. And I find that some of the most light-hearted comments are carried in language that is apparently deeply serious.

It's also worth pointing out that humour is very easily misunderstood - and embarrassingly difficult to explain. You can imagine the kind of explanation ... "When I said that .,, was a mindless idiot I was referring back to an amusing exchange we had on another topic last Thursday and although it might seem to be offensive, my comment was neither intended to be insulting nor taken as offensive ........."
(Fingers crossed  )


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## .   1

panjandrum said:


> It's also worth pointing out that humour is very easily misunderstood - and embarrassingly difficult to explain. You can imagine the kind of explanation ... "When I said that .,, was a mindless idiot I was referring back to an amusing exchange we had on another topic last Thursday and although it might seem to be offensive, my comment was neither intended to be insulting nor taken as offensive ........." )


How dare you call me a mindless idiot you cross eyed moron!

.,,


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## emma42

Panjandrum has put it really well.  I wholeheartedly agree with everything he has said.  Powerful medicine, indeed.  Even if he is a malodorous, nauseating eejit.


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## panjandrum

. said:


> ... you cross eyed moron!
> .,,





emma42 said:


> Panjandrum ... is a malodorous, nauseating eejit.


Precisely the kind of thing I had in mind.  Though at least .,, had the grace to apologise by PM for calling me cross-eyed.


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## cuchuflete

panjandrum said:


> Precisely the kind of thing I had in mind.  Though at least .,, had the grace to apologise by PM for calling me cross-eyed.


And your other interlocutor is still awaiting your abject thanks for a most precise compliment?  How thoroughly participial!

The quality of banter here does add depth to the language learning, and somehow makes it a more personal sharing than just words on a screen.


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## .   1

emma42 said:


> Even if he is a malodorous, nauseating eejit.


I'm sorry.  It's the accent.  Eejit is such a glorious word it is nothing but a term of endearment down here in the antipodean areas so if you are attempting to rattle the monkey man's cage with odium you should try for more odeous terms of reference.

.,,


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## emma42

Of course, I'm not trying to rattle his cage.  I consider him an excellent fellow, and, so this is on-topic, a most helpful "helping hand".


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## geve

Pourquoi toutes ces gentillesses dans les posts précédents ? Pourquoi pas, après tout : ça nous change des corps-à-corps linguistiques jusqu'au sang, qui sont notre quotidien et que nous aimons tant. 
Why all these posts of kindness? Well, why not: it's a pleasant change from the linguistic hand-to-hand fights that we fight, day after day, till blood parts us - and that we relish so much.
A helping hand? Nah! A providential offer to quarrel. A gauntlet thrown down that we gratefully take up.


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## emma42

Tous les deux, non, geve?


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## Chaska Ñawi

Has anybody noticed the original topic lately?  It appears to have been lost, stolen or strayed.


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## Marga H

Hi,I'm coming back to original topic.
The question was: why are we addicted to WR Forum?

-It doesn't often happen that someone on the Forum asks about Polish language so all the greater  is my pleasure if I can help these people.

-I have also asked a question only few times so far,  but each time I have received a prompt and helpful reply, not easy to find in a different way.

-Apart from asking and answering there is possible the third kind of  activity: I spend a lot of my free time just reading new topics and discussions. I often can learn more in this way than from books and the language is closer to real life.

-I can't say that my family and friends don't understand my longlasting love for foreign languages ( and also the native one ). They appreciate it as a nice and harmless excentrity. But it was wonderful to find out that there are so many people with far greater linguistic passion.

- Also I'm a representative of the generation for which the adventure with internet is still something new and exciting.

-I'm not feeling lonely in every day life, even I sometimes can't wait to be left alone and join the forum.

-Some years ago I used to travel and try to make conversation in different languages, sometimes not really known.Nowadays because of health problems I have to stay at home . Surfing on the WR Forum is for me a substitute of travelling and meeting people from over the world.

-To sum up: there are many reasons ( even for one person ) to be addicted to linguistic forum.
Maybe in a few years scientists will discover the gene of linguistic passion
or the responsible brain area .

Kind regards for you all!
Marga.


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