# Old English (pronunciation): Aelfgyva



## absfabs

How do you pronounce the word? I guess nobody knows exactly, since it's from an unfinished sentence "Where a clerk and Aelfgyva" from Bayeux Tapestry, and nobody knows what that means except maybe it's the name of the woman in the scene. I just want to know how most likely it is pronounced, maybe by some inference to other similar words.


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## Copyright

_*Elf-*guh-vah. _Hard G, accent on the Elf. At least that's what I would be saying in the privacy of my own mind -- there's every chance it is pronounced completely differently by someone who speaks a dialect of English that I don't know.
_
*Edit:* See post 6 for something more factual._


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## Parla

This doesn't appear to be a question about the English language.


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## absfabs

Isn't it about English pronunciation? I thought the name is an Old English name.


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## owlman5

It _is_ an Old English name, Absfabs.  As you probably know already, the Bayeux tapestry records William the Conqueror's victory at the Battle of Hastings in 1066.  Aelfgyva is very similar to other names from the tenth and eleventh centuries.  Aelfgifu was the name of several important women who lived during this period.  I'm not sure, but I think "Aelfgifu" would mean something like "Elves' Gift" or "Gift from the Elves".  They're Anglo-Saxon names, rather than Celtic ones.

By the way, Copyright's guess about how to pronounce that name sounds good to me.


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## grubble

This website claims to know the correct pronunciation http://craftvic.org.au/resources/craft-culture/2006/a-stitch-in-time

_Eminently Anglo-saxon, Melbourne playwright and director Jane Woollard is strikingly aware of these sensitivities and complications. They have not stopped her pushing ahead with her desire to tell the story of one of the few women depicted in the Bayeux Tapsetry. The enigmatic Aelfgyva (pronounced Alfgeeva ) is one of three women in the Bayeux tapestry, a seventy metre long, embroidered wall hanging made in 1070._


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## owlman5

grubble said:


> This website claims to know the correct pronunciation http://craftvic.org.au/resources/craft-culture/2006/a-stitch-in-time
> 
> _Eminently Anglo-saxon, Melbourne playwright and director Jane Woollard is strikingly aware of these sensitivities and complications. They have not stopped her pushing ahead with her desire to tell the story of one of the few women depicted in the Bayeux Tapsetry. The enigmatic Aelfgyva (pronounced Alfgeeva ) is one of three women in the Bayeux tapestry, a seventy metre long, embroidered wall hanging made in 1070._


Thanks for the link, Grubble.  That version sounds even more interesting and exotic. 

PS. Although I couldn't find a definition for "gyva", this dictionary of Old English offered these two definitions for "aelf" and "giefu" (an alternative spelling for "gifu"): http://home.comcast.net/~modean52/oeme_dictionaries.htm

ælf [] _m_ (-es/ielfe, ylfe), _f_ (-e/ielfe, ylfe) elf, sprite, fairy, goblin, incubus  

 
giefu [] _f_ (-e/-a) giving, gift; 



I find it comforting that the definition for "aelf" offers us something eerier than the elves I associate with Keebler's cookies.


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## entangledbank

In 1066 in the South of England it would have been ['ælvjivə], I think. The letter f was voiced between voiced sounds, thus [ælv] (as in _Calvin_). The letter g before front vowels was [j] as in _yes, yield_. The modern pronunciations of _give, gift_ with [g] come from Norse-influenced Northern varieties of English, and replaced the [j] versions in the South long after 1066. The Late Old English of 1066 would already have shown many of the vowel reductions of Middle English: so the second vowel would have become _ (as in either give or yield - I'm not sure that there's enough evidence to determine which), and the final vowels would have become neutral [ə].

The spelling y for the  vowel probably indicates it's from a dialect in which original Old English [y] had become , so the two letters represented the same sound; but possibly it's from a dialect which retained [y] (there were some in the South then), and y actually represented [y]. This is getting out of my depth._


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## owlman5

entangledbank said:


> In 1066 in the South of England it would have been ['ælvjivə], I think. The letter f was voiced between voiced sounds, thus [ælv] (as in _Calvin_). The letter g before front vowels was [j] as in _yes, yield_. The modern pronunciations of _give, gift_ with [g] come from Norse-influenced Northern varieties of English, and replaced the [j] versions in the South long after 1066. The Late Old English of 1066 would already have shown many of the vowel reductions of Middle English: so the second vowel would have become _ (as in either give or yield - I'm not sure that there's enough evidence to determine which), and the final vowels would have become neutral [ə].
> 
> The spelling y for the  vowel probably indicates it's from a dialect in which original Old English [y] had become , so the two letters represented the same sound; but possibly it's from a dialect which retained [y] (there were some in the South then), and y actually represented [y]. This is getting out of my depth._


_
Wow, EB.  This sounds convincing.  You've probably come closer to the actual pronunciation than anyone so far._


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## Copyright

owlman5 said:


> Wow, EB.  This sounds convincing.  You've probably come closer to the actual pronunciation than anyone so far.



I agree. Note to self: Stay out of pronunciation threads.


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## Aardvark01

owlman5 said:


> ...I couldn't find a definition for "gyva
> 
> ...giefu [] _f_ (-e/-a) giving, gift; ...


The word appears in The Wanderer in the line after "Where is the horse? Where the (young) rider?"

Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?

Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa?

The translation of the last word is *mathom* (gift) + *gyfa* (giver). I understand the pronunciation to be comparable to its modern English counterpart with a hard 'g' rather than the /j/ sound which the letter has in the middle and end of OE words which are *not composites*. There are a number of OE words which start with 'g' and have the hard sound in modern English and related languages:
 
*Gan /* *G*ewat= to go / *g*oeth / *g*one
middan*g*eard (middle-earth) = Danish/Swedish/Norwegian Mid*g*ård/Mid*g*aard


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## owlman5

Aardvark01 said:


> The word appears in The Wanderer in the line after "Where is the horse? Where the (young) rider?"
> 
> Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
> 
> Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa?
> 
> The translation of the last word is *mathom* (gift) + *gyfa* (giver). I understand the pronunciation to be comparable to its modern English counterpart with a hard 'g' rather than the /j/ sound which the letter has in the middle and end of OE words which are *not composites*. There are a number of OE words which start with 'g' and have the hard sound in modern English and related languages:
> 
> *Gan /* *G*ewat= to go / *g*oeth / *g*one
> middan*g*eard (middle-earth) = Danish/Swedish/Norwegian Mid*g*ård/Mid*g*aard


This is great information, Aardvark. Thank you.  I'm beginning to wonder if this combination of "elf" and "gift" or "giver" might have meant something like "changeling".  Perhaps unexpected or unwanted children were attributed to elves.  Does that sound plausible to you?


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## ewie

*Moderator note:* Hello folks ~ as this particular Anglo-Saxon name _hasn't _survived into Modern English*, I'm going to move this thread to *Other Languages: Old English*, standard procedure for threads about Old or Middle English. 


*Please don't someone say _Hold on, Ewie ~ my _mother_'s name was Ælfgyva!_


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## entangledbank

But Old English _geard_ corresponds to Modern _yard_. Some vowel changes in Old English that resulted in front vowels caused palatalization of /g/; others did not. So the 'breaking' of /a/ to /ea/ did, whereas the umlaut of /u/ to /y/ (in Modern _gild_ from _gyld-_ related by umlaut to _gold_) did not. (I think this is evidence that breaking preceding umlaut, but I don't have my books by me.)

The process didn't created minimal pairs in (earlier, at least) Old English, so in poetry front and back allophones alliterated. So we don't have obvious poetic evidence to tell us what sound was used: it's done rather by tracing descendants.


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## ArchenaTN

owlman5 said:


> This is great information, Aardvark. Thank you.  I'm beginning to wonder if this combination of "elf" and "gift" or "giver" might have meant something like "changeling".  Perhaps unexpected or unwanted children were attributed to elves.  Does that sound plausible to you?


If so, the name would have had a fairly negative connotation, wouldn't it? The changeling was often substituted for a healthy human child and in some (varies in folklore) cases one that quickly sickened and died. 

Mind you, I'm clueless as to what it might have actually meant - I don't know enough to make a case for a positively connotated meaning (like gift from the elves/fairies). Most of what (little) I've read of fairy/elf folklore is not exactly Dr Seuss - although the brothers Grimm would have been right at home.

Anyway, thanks for some great info, guys! I just wanted to learn how to pronounce it.

It /it/ (there's always someone... )


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## Stoggler

entangledbank said:


> In 1066 in the South of England it would have been ['ælvjivə], I think. The letter f was voiced between voiced sounds, thus [ælv] (as in _Calvin_). The letter g before front vowels was [j] as in _yes, yield_. The modern pronunciations of _give, gift_ with [g] come from Norse-influenced Northern varieties of English, and replaced the [j] versions in the South long after 1066. The Late Old English of 1066 would already have shown many of the vowel reductions of Middle English: so the second vowel would have become _ (as in either give or yield - I'm not sure that there's enough evidence to determine which), and the final vowels would have become neutral [ə].
> 
> The spelling y for the  vowel probably indicates it's from a dialect in which original Old English [y] had become , so the two letters represented the same sound; but possibly it's from a dialect which retained [y] (there were some in the South then), and y actually represented [y]. This is getting out of my depth._


_

I concur with entangledbank's description of how the name was pronounced. The letter g was indeed pronounced as [y] before front vowels, as explained. 

The word giefu (or gifu/gyvu/gyva) meaning gift is also seen in the name of Lady Godiva, which was Godgifu in Old English; the spelling Godiva is a Latinised version but gives some indication that there was no hard [g] sound in the middle of the name.

Incidentally, the ælf element of the name was a common first part of individual's names in the Anglo-Saxon period, and can be found in names like Alfred (Ælfred in OE) and Ælfric and Ælfwine._


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## ArchenaTN

(My apologies in advance, Mods, if this is too far afield - I'm still getting acquainted with your forum.)



Stoggler said:


> ...
> 
> Incidentally, the ælf element of the name was a common first part of individual's names in the Anglo-Saxon period, and can be found in names like Alfred (Ælfred in OE) and Ælfric and Ælfwine.



Thanks, that's helpful. How would you pronounce Ælfwine? I had the impression OE w was pronounced like the modern German, but that would put a v sound next to another so is it like a modern English w or something else entirely?

Thanks!


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## berndf

ArchenaTN said:


> I had the impression OE w was pronounced like the modern German, but that would put a v sound next to another so is it like a modern English w or something else entirely?


It is true that the OE and OHG /w/s were pronounced the same. But you got it the wrong way round: It was German which changed from /w/>/v/, the English /w/ was always like it is today.


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## ArchenaTN

Ah, okay. Thanks!


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