# BCMS: c(ij)elo vr(ij)eme



## EdnoMomche

This thread was actual before few months in Serbian media because some singer on TV all the time spoke cijelo vrijeme, and they said that it is not  grammatically correct. 

But in Croatia and Bosnia you can really often hear: cijelo vrijeme and it is correct.

So in Serbian there is only svo/sve vrijeme or what?


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## jakowo

A basic distinction among the Serbocroatian dialects is in the reflex of the long Common Slavic vowel jat (ѣ), usually transcribed as *ě. 
Depending on the reflex, the dialects are divided into Ikavian, Ekavian, and Ijekavian, with the reflects of jat being /i/, /e/, and /ije/ or /je/ respectively. 
The long and short jat is reflected as long or short */i/ and /e/ in Ikavian and Ekavian, but Ijekavian dialects introduce a ije/je alternation 
to retain a distinction.

Standard Croatian and Bosnian are based on Ijekavian, whereas Serbian uses both Ekavian and Ijekavian forms (Ijekavian for Bosnian Serbs, 
Ekavian for most of  Serbia). Influence of standard language through state media and education has caused non-standard varieties 
to lose ground to the literary forms.

                            ---------Ekavian          Ikavian         Ijekavian
*vrěme      vreme               vrime                 vrijeme.


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## itreius

OP is not talking about the Yat reflex.

He's talking about the collocation _cijelo vrijeme_ which is (at least to me) the normal way to say _all the time_. But some googling shows that the prescribed norm in Serbian is _sve vreme_, which I didn't know about before and which sounds ungrammatical to me (but apparently isn't in Serbian).


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## jakowo

@itreus
"He's talking about the collocation _cijelo vrijeme_ which is (at least to me) the normal way to say _all the time_. But some googling shows that the prescribed norm in Serbian is _sve vreme_, which I didn't know about before and which sounds ungrammatical to me (but apparently isn't in Serbian)"


Another question: How would you say that in Kajkavian: celo vreme or celi cajt?
(Not kidding, I really heard the word 'cajt' in Zagreb).


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## itreius

Yes, 'cajt' is used a lot, however, in my own idiolect it's limited to expressions like for example _imaš cajta?_ (_do you have time?_).

For OP's expression, I'd most likely use _ciele vrieme_ when speaking Kajkavian (the _ie_ being a close-mid front unrounded vowel). My usage of that construction in Kajkavian is probably due the influence of standard language. I've heard some Kajkavians say _sef cajt_ (but you wouldn't find that in an urban speech) and _sef/ves čas_.


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## jakowo

itreius said:


> I'd most likely use _ciele vrieme_ when speaking Kajkavian (the _ie_ being a close-mid front unrounded vowel). My usage of that construction in Kajkavian is probably due the influence of standard language.




Doubtlessly.
I'm quite often there, and my Zagrabian friends pronounce the jat (ѣ) basically ekavian, e.g. lepe (lijepo), dete, reč, čovek, razmeti, mesto, etc.
There is a small admixture of ijekavian forms, e.g. sjeme, sijati, prije, though some of them would say seme, sejati, pre.
Zdravobóg.


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## Милан

In Serbian both c[ij]elo vr[ij]eme and sve vreme are standard, correct forms. Svo vreme is wrong, cause svo as a word does not exist in standard Serbian. Most people in Serbia *believe* that c[ij]elo vr[ij]eme is wrong cause, they say, doesn't make any sense. Of course, Pravopis Matice srpske allows both forms but prefers sve vreme.



> цело време, боље све време


celo vreme, bolje sve vreme


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## thegreathoo

Cijelo Vrijeme  is correct, i svo vrijeme is correct.  Sve vreme is incorrect.  Sv(e) is reserved for plural feminine form and vreme is not of feminine form nor plural, at least in South Slavic.  Sve vreme maybe OK in Bulgarian or Macedonian.  (In South Slavic there is only "Onaj" - musculine, "Ono"-undetermined, i "Ona"-feminine for singular form.  In plural form, it is "Oni" - musculine, "Ona" for undetermined, and "One for feminine.)


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## itreius

thegreathoo said:


> Sv(e) is reserved for plural feminine form



_*Sve*_ is also the prescribed _sg. neuter_ form. (sav/sva/sve)


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## thegreathoo

itreius said:


> _*Sve*_ is also the prescribed _sg. neuter_ form. (sav/sva/sve)


In plural form.  Vrijeme is not in plural form.  Maybe in Kajkavian, but not in BCS proper.  I do not dispute that "sve vrijeme" is in use in some places.  It is simply not a proper way of saying it.  BTW Kajkavian is not a measure of BCS language because it is mudded up from Slovenian influence, same goes for Pirotski Sprski dialaect and others.


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## itreius

thegreathoo said:


> In plural form.  Vrijeme is not in plural form.  Maybe in Kajkavian, but not in BCS proper.  I do not dispute that "sve vrijeme" is in use in some places.  It is simply not a proper way of saying it.  BTW Kajkavian is not a measure of BCS language because it is mudded up from Slovenian influence, same goes for Pirotski Sprski dialaect and others.



Uh, I'm not going from the PoV of Kajkavian. Kajkavian would use _so_, _vso_, etc.

_*Sve*_ is literally the prescribed _singular neuter form_ in standard Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian (although where I come from _svo_ is more dominant).

Look up a grammar book.



> because it is mudded up from Slovenian influence



I'm not sure what you mean by mudded up by influence. Common Kajkavian and Slovenian features are mostly a result of retention (archaisms), rather than influence of one on the other.


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## Милан

thegreathoo said:


> Cijelo Vrijeme  is correct, i svo vrijeme is correct.  Sve vreme is incorrect.



Well maybe in your language, but in Serbian cijelo vrijeme and sve vreme are both correct. As I said, I have Pravopis Matice srpske and simply *svo is not a word* in standard language.


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