# Difficult english words to pronounce...



## Frenchnoob

Just a little point of humour...

A french guy at work told me he completely avoids english words he finds really difficult to pronounce properly like the word "focus" ... (just think how would this be pronounced with a heavy french accent ).
He used this in a very serious/boring business presentation to top executives &, as you could guess, the class erupted in laughter.

I think the line he used went something like "You need to focus hard on this issue".

Naturally he didn't make that mistake twice. 

What are some other words that French people try to avoid?


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## quentin75

"month "...By the way is there a real difference between MONTH and MONTHS as far as pronounciation is concerned?


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## CrazyDaisy

yes, it is very different because actually the 'ths' is quite a long sound.

Months is almost like saying month-eu-s (but quickly at the end) 
for me anyway, this is the closest I can explain!

(by 'eu' I mean the french sound 'eu' as in 'j'ai eu' ("I have had")

I can see how it would be tricky to say this


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## frodon

I used  to avoid words like:

"beach"

"Sheet"


they are classic.


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## doodlebugger

I remember having trouble with _slot_.
A girl at the office took offense at the way I pronounced it.
A famous story I was told involved a Frenchman who could not properly pronounce _taking into account_.
It sounded like _talking into a c*nt_.


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## panzemeyer

I can remember having huge trouble proncounciating "work". People around me would understand "walk".


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## frodon

I still have difficulties to pronounce : "ate" and "hate"


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## doodlebugger

My biggest achievement in English was to properly pronounce _were_ and _where_.
It took me a while just to hear the difference!


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## Frenchnoob

Hehe, great to hear the funny stories!
Actually were & where gets everyone (ie all non english speakers), not just the french, as well as walk & work.

My favourite french word is "la fac" for university ... so just like in l'auberg espagniole, I love saying "I'm going to fac" =).


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## delphine1

The first time i went to england, I did not understand how to pronounce "cheat"... you could imagine what it sounds like !!


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## pieanne

About the thread title...
I would say "English words difficult to pronounce".


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## clairet

pieanne said:


> About the thread title...
> I would say "English words difficult to pronounce".


 
I'm afraid that doesn't sound very natural to an English (or presumably an australian) ear.


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## Frenchnoob

English was never my strongest subject at school. I'll have to protest & say that what I wrote still makes sense even though yours sounds so much better.

"Beach", "sheet", "slot", "taking into account" ... they really are classics!


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## pieanne

I didn't want to sound like your English teacher!   I just typed a thought that was going through my head. Please excuse me if I was blunt...


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## konungursvia

Reminds me of Churchill's apparent speech to the French National Assembly after the war: "Quand je regarde mon derrière, je vois qu'il est divisé en deux parties".  As for the French friend who can't say focus, I'd suggest he simply say "faux" + "que" + "ce" with the "e caduc" on "ce" dropped off to near nothingness.


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## Frenchnoob

No not at all pieanne, no offence taken whatsoever, the thought didn't even cross my mind. I was speaking in jest. I was thinking maybe I should've added some smilies to my comments. You have to do quite a lot to offend an Aussie =). Btw, all my friends hated english at school, shakespear, essays, eekh!


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## pieanne

Thank you!


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## viera

Many French people, even fairly good English speakers, can't seem to get 'development' right. 
I invariably hear devel'*op*ment and to devel'*op *instead of de*ve*lopment and de*ve*lop.


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## pieanne

... and that's why it doesn't take 2 Ps in the -ing or -ed form, right?


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## doodlebugger

After years of trying to improve my spoken English, I came to realize that the real issue is not _pronunciation_ but _accentuation_.
You can pronounce a word or a sentence perfectly, you will always sound like a foreigner if you stress the wrong syllable.


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## Frenchnoob

Personally, I would always discourage a french person from trying to lose their french accent because it sounds so lovely.
You could be the ugliest person on the planet & yet people will gather just to hear you speak in a french accent.
DON'T LOSE YOUR FRENCH ACCENT, WHATEVER YOU DO, PLEASE!
Unless of course, you're very particular & have a need to get it right or parfait.


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## doodlebugger

Frenchnoob, the attractiveness of the French accent wanes pretty fast in a business environment!


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## pieanne

I would like to have my English accent as parfait as possible! But on the other hand, I know I'll always have that -more or less- slight hint of a lovely French accent. Which is quite fine by me!


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## pieanne

doodlebugger said:


> Frenchnoob, the attractiveness of the French accent wanes pretty fast in a business environment!


 
Maybe not if the person is perfectly fluent?


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## Frenchnoob

doodlebugger said:


> Frenchnoob, the attractiveness of the French accent wanes pretty fast in a business environment!



Yeah, but nobody will complain if its not perfect.
If you speak fluent or very close but just with an accent, there should be no problem unless the accent is too strong that it causes confusion.

Not to have a go at the Scottish, but just as an example, when they speak, I am completely baffled, and yet they have just spoken english to me. Quoi????

Juliette Binoche really speaks with a perfect british "royal" accent in movies such as Damage & the English Patient. And I know I waffle on about the gorgeous french accent a little too much on these forums but I don't see why it needs to be perfect for business.
As long as its clear, then that should be fine.


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## Iznogoud

In my experience, the difficulty lies in large part in the inconsistent pronunciation of similarly spelled words or, even worse, in the different pronunciation depending on the context of words that are spelled identically. I remember reading poems on the subject while learning English and I found a few of them on the web at the following address: 

http://home.planet.nl/~blade068/languagefun/pronunciation.htm

Here are a few excerpts from that page:

_The bandage was wound round the wound 
The farm was used to produce produce
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse
We must polish the Polish furniture
He could lead if he would get the lead out
..._

_Dearest creature in Creation, 
Studying English pronunciation, 
I will teach you in my verse 
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse. 
It will keep you, Susy, busy, 
Make your head with heat grow dizzy; 
Tear in eye your dress you'll tear, 
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer, 
Pray, console your loving poet, 
Make my coat look new, dear, sew 
it! Just compare heart, beard and heard, 
Dies and diet, Lord and word, 
Sword and sward, retain and Britain, 
(Mind the latter, how it's written); 
Made has not the sound of bade; 
Say - said, pay - paid, laid, but plaid. 
Now I surely will not plague you 
With such words as vague and ague, 
But be careful how you speak, 
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak, 
..._
_ 
_


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## Frenchnoob

Oh yes, so true, its the ugly side of the english language.
Does this duel or multiple pronunciation of the same word exist in french?


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## Old Novice

Re the poems: Wow! It's a very good thing for me that I was born to English and am learning French, instead of the other way around. I had no idea there were so many such problems.

But to get back on-topic, one of the problems I've had is that some French vowel sounds don't seem to exist in (my version of) English. The "u" in "tu", the "o" in téléphone, etc. Are there vowels sounds in English that don't exist in French that contribute to these pronunciation problems?


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## pieanne

Yes...
The [Ow] sound of "go" is the first I can think of.


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## Frenchnoob

The same [ow] as in "focus" =)


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## pieanne

The French are not always very discriminative in the way they pronounce some sounds. For example, to them, "je viendr*ai*" and "je viendr*ais*" sound the same, which it normally doesn't. 
On the other hand, the Belgians make the difference: "je viendrai" = [é], "je viendrais" = [è].
Belgium is north of France, and the more you go to the north, the more people you find who can adapt their tongue (if I may say that) to foreign sounds.
Scientists say their "pronounciation basis" is "impure", but in fact they are more prepared to acquire and produce foreign sounds.


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## pieanne

Frenchnoob said:


> The same [ow] as in "focus" =)


 
'Xactly!

and the sound of the "u" in "sun", "focus", ...


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## Iznogoud

Old Novice said:


> Re the poems: Wow! It's a very good thing for me that I was born to English and am learning French, instead of the other way around. I had no idea there were so many such problems.
> 
> But to get back on-topic, one of the problems I've had is that some French vowel sounds don't seem to exist in (my version of) English. The "u" in "tu", the "o" in téléphone, etc. Are there vowels sounds in English that don't exist in French that contribute to these pronunciation problems?


 
We have that problem with some English consonants, especially _th_ (as in _the_ or _three_) and the "r" sound. All the English vowels, however, exist in French but many are modulated differently (_focus_ is a good example). It is when you don't modulate them properly that you produce the typical French accent.


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## Old Novice

pieanne said:


> Yes...
> The [Ow] sound of "go" is the first I can think of.


 
I pronounce "go" to rhyme with "l'eau".  Am I perhaps mispronouncing "l'eau"?


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## pieanne

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Iznogood... 
I always have a hard time trying to teach students how to make the difference between, say, "bought", and "boat", "row" and "row", "slob" and "focus", "bomb" and "comb"...


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## pieanne

Old Novice said:


> I pronounce "go" to rhyme with "l'eau". Am I perhaps mispronouncing "l'eau"?


 
Well, "eau" is a straight [ô]
"Go" is more [*O*w]


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## Old Novice

Iznogoud said:


> We have that problem with some English consonants, especially _th_ (as in _the_ or _three_) and the "r" sound. All the English vowels, however, exist in French but many are modulated differently (_focus_ is a good example). It is when you don't modulate them properly that you produce the typical French accent.


 
I've been told that there are actually two "th" sounds in English, which you can hear by saying "The [pronounced "thee"] theater" [theatre for our BE colleagues]. The tongue moves differently, touching the teeth for the "the" but not for the "theater", which is more breathy. Anglophones tend to be unaware of the difference, akin to the difficulty in hearing the distinction between the English "r" and "l" if you're raised speaking Chinese. So perhaps English teachers may not focus on it enough for their francophone students, contributing to your difficulties with "th" words.


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## pieanne

Yes, there's a difference between "the" and "thick"
The [th] sound in "the" is breezing, the one in "thick", well, is thicker!
Same as in "moth" & "theatre"


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## Old Novice

pieanne said:


> Well, "eau" is a straight [ô]
> "Go" is more [*O*w]


 
Sorry, I don't know the phonetic symbols. Go, row, sew, so, show, flow, owe, toe, and chateau all end in the same "long o" sound, to my ear. Is this another thing like the "th" difference that I just mentioned in another post? Is there a difference in the long o sound that anglophones have trouble hearing (or at least that AE anglophones do)?

Edit: Oops! Did you mean ô as in bientôt?    I've been pronouncing that the same way, too.


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## Iznogoud

pieanne said:


> I'm afraid I have to disagree, Iznogood...
> I always have a hard time trying to teach students how to make the difference between, say, "bought", and "boat", "row" and "row", "slob" and "focus", "bomb" and "comb"...


 
Yes, I completely agree with you and it is one of the most difficult aspects of English pronunciation (see my earlier post with the poems), but at least those vowel sounds exist in French and are easy for French speakers to reproduce. The difficulty lies in choosing which sound to use depending on the word and the context.

By contrast, the _th_ sound does not exist in French, which is why many beginners say it as a _z _or an _s. _The same thing happens with the _u _sound for English speakers, who often say it _as ou._


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## jb0284

pieanne said:


> Yes, there's a difference between "the" and "thick"
> The [th] sound in "the" is breezing, the one in "thick", well, is thicker!
> Same as in "moth" & "theatre"


 
The 'th' sound in moth and theatre is the same - they are both harder 'th' sounds than previously mentioned 'the' or 'there'...


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## Frenchnoob

When you say chinese, there are actually a lot of different dialects.
People may or may not know this but the mainland chinese speak mandarin (the official language) and their dialect is noticeably heavy on the R and SH pronunciations. So for them it should be easier to pick the english curled R pronunciation. Its the cantonese speakers from Hong Kong & the rest of most of Asia that don't have the curled R pronunciation. So for them its really hard to make the curled R sound & they try to make up for it by using a flapped R sound which sounds like a soft L (ie when you hit the palate with your tongue very quickly). Of course some just find making an obvious L sound much much easier & just end up using the usual L pronunciation instead. Its also less confusing, whether they do it consciously or not.
You must be very careful when saying Chinese because of the many different dialects.


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## pieanne

Iznogoud, You would help me tremendously if you provided the French words with the sounds corresponding to all the words in my previous post... 
Would you, please?


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## pieanne

jb0284 said:


> The 'th' sound in moth and theatre is the same - they are both harder 'th' sounds than previously mentioned 'the' or 'there'...


You're quite right, sorry, a very poor choice of examples...
But, nevertheless, there are 2 [th] sounds!


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## Old Novice

Frenchnoob said:


> When you say chinese, there are actually a lot of different dialects.
> People may or may not know this but the mainland chinese speak mandarin (the official language) and their dialect is noticeably heavy on the R and SH pronunciations. So for them it should be easier to pick the english curled R pronunciation. Its the cantonese speakers from Hong Kong & the rest of most of Asia that don't have the curled R pronunciation. So for them its really hard to make the curled R sound & they try to make up for it by using a flapped R sound which sounds like a soft L (ie when you hit the palate with your tongue very quickly). Of course some just find making an obvious L sound much much easier & just end up using the usual L pronunciation instead. Its also less confusing, whether they do it consciously or not.
> You must be very careful when saying Chinese because of the many different dialects.


 
Point taken, and I hope I gave no offense. The explanation I gave was one given me by a colleague born and raised in China, which is how I first learned of the "th" distinction in English. It would have been more accurate for me to have made reference to the possibility that the r-l issue might not arise in all dialects.


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## Frenchnoob

Actually pieanne is right on a technical basis.
But its very hard for english speakers to pick this up & is not really if at all emphasised at school.
Our teacher happened to use the example of "cloth" and "clothes" or "breath" and "breathe". Like pieanne said, you basically breathe more air out as you say the 2nd examples. But its very technical in my opinion & most english speakers wouldn't even know there was a difference.


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## Frenchnoob

Old Novice said:


> Point taken, and I hope I gave no offense. The explanation I gave was one given me by a colleague born and raised in China, which is how I first learned of the "th" distinction in English. It would have been more accurate for me to have made reference to the possibility that the r-l issue might not arise in all dialects.



Not at all, no offense whatsoever. But I merely wanted to point out that it wasn't so much that they couldn't hear the difference but rather that they find it hard to make the sound because they're not used to producing that curled R pronunciation.

I have to admit, I find it hard to make the french R sound comfortably.
It just doesn't roll off my tongue very well. I'm generally okay except in words like "grand". I tend to break the 2 apart and pronounce G and R distinctly whereas the french make a very clean single GR sound.


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## Frenchnoob

Btw, Old Novice, this site might help with french pronunciations...
http://demo.acapela-group.com/

Its not perfect but very helpful.


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## doodlebugger

The biggest pronunciation challenge for us frogs: *h* !!!


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## Old Novice

Frenchnoob said:


> Not at all, no offense whatsoever. But I merely wanted to point out that it wasn't so much that they couldn't hear the difference but rather that they find it hard to make the sound because they're not used to producing that curled R pronunciation.


 
Well, I'm afraid that that's not the way it was explained to me,   but I have no personal knowledge one way or the other.  The explanation I received was that the anglophone's difficulty in distinguishing the two sounds of "th" was the same issue.  Maybe this was intended just as a methaphor, however, or maybe I simply misunderstood.  Again, if my earlier statement was inaccurate, I apologize.


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## Frenchnoob

"The biggest pronunciation challenge for us frogs: *h* !!!"
Really? Interesting.


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## Old Novice

Frenchnoob said:


> Btw, Old Novice, this site might help with french pronunciations...
> http://demo.acapela-group.com/
> 
> Its not perfect but very helpful.


 
Thanks very much, Frenchnoob! Another site that offers such a service for English, French and other languages was posted by geostan a few days ago in another thread. It's here. Maybe it will be useful for some of the specific words discussed earlier in the thread.


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