# FR: it was necessary that I tell her



## jenesuispasparisienne

I'm writing an essay about a surprise birthday party and need to say that I had to tell the person whose birthday it was and ruin the surprise because I needed to know the date she was free...
Could I say
"Il fallait que je l'aie dit pour que nous puissions organiser la date"
I think that's wrong...

Thanks in advance


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## Oddmania

After _Il fallait que_, you need the _Subjonctif Imparfait._ As it's not really used, you can use the _Subjonctif Présent _

_Il fallait que je lui dise pour que nous puissions organiser la date._


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## jenesuispasparisienne

Thanks! But in english we'd say "it was necessary that I told her" so are you sure you can't use past subj ? I'm sure you know because you're french but I have seen I'll fallait que + past subjunctive - is that wrong?


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## kme

Oddmania said:


> After _Il fallait que_, you need the _Subjonctif Imparfait._ As it's not really used, you can use the _Subjonctif Présent _
> 
> _Il fallait que je lui dise pour que nous puissions organiser la date._


 
I agree 100% with Oddmania... being a native, i would not say it differently. Indeed, subjonctif imparfait is almost never used anymore. In the case of your sentence, subjonctif present is the form to chose... but then if it's an assignment and you have a stuborn teaching who wants you to practice one of the only tense you will never have to use... you can check the table here


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## jenesuispasparisienne

^ No it's fine, I'm sure you're both right and I will use present.
Thanks!


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## Oddmania

As a French person, I've actually never learnt the grammar rules regarding the _Past/Imperfect subjunctive_, but here are links explaining the differences 

http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/pastsubjunctive.htm

http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/imperfectsubjunctive.htm

_The past subjunctive is used when the verb in the subordinate clause -  the verb that follows que - happened before the verb in the main  clause [...]
_


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## Chimel

This is quite true, but actually I think I would spontaneously say, in such a case: "J'ai dû le lui dire pour que..." instead of "il fallait que..." (or then, perhaps: "Il a bien fallu que je le lui dise...").


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## Lacuzon

Hi,

As proposed Chimel I would go for _Il fallait bien le lui dire pour pouvoir s'organiser._


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## Nicomon

Lacuzon said:


> As proposed Chimel I would go for _Il fallait bien le lui dire pour pouvoir s'organiser._


 But didn't Chimel write that he would not say « il fallait »? Or did I misread?

In any event, I personally would say : _il a fallu que je le lui dise, pour qu'on puisse s'organiser._


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## Maître Capello

Both the passé composé and the imparfait are possible but there is a slight difference between the two tenses. The imparfait is rather atemporal in the sense that the sentence can be said (or thought) even before the "event" [_que je le lui dise_] takes place. On the other hand, the passé composé necessarily indicates that the event has already occurred. Besides, it is somehow fatalistic…

_Il fallait (bien) que je le lui dise. / Je devais (bien) le lui dire.
Il a (bien) fallu que je le lui dise. / J'ai (bien) dû le lui dire._


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## Meille

Actually Jenesuispas, I would say "It was necessary that I _tell_ her.


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## Maître Capello

jenesuispasparisienne said:


> Thanks! But in english we'd say "it was necessary that I told her" so are you sure you can't use past subj ? I'm sure you know because you're french but I have seen I'll fallait que + past subjunctive - is that wrong?





meille said:


> Actually Jenesuispas, I would say "It was necessary that I _tell_ her.


You are correct, Meille, the original English sentence should be in the *present*  subjunctive. (The past subjunctive is used for hypotheses and volition, e.g., _I wish I told her_.)

As far as the *tenses* of the subjunctive are concerned, the main difference between the English and French usage is the following:


*English:* The tense of the subordinate clause in the subjunctive does not depend on the tense of the main clause (there is no sequence of tenses) but it depends on the hypothetical or volitional aspect of the sentence.
*French:* The tense of the subordinate clause in the subjunctive depends on  the tense of the main clause (sequence of tenses). However, in modern French, the imperfect and pluperfect subjunctive are now literary and we usually use the present or past subjunctive instead of those two.
At any rate, in both languages, the correct tense also depends on the time frame of the subordinate clause relative to the main clause (simultaneity or anteriority).
_
It *is* necessary that I *tell* her_. (now) / _It *was* necessary that I *tell* her_. (at the time)
_She *wishes* they *were* rich_. (now) / _She *wished* __they *were* rich._ (at the time)
_She *wishes* __they *had been* rich_. (before now) / _She *wished* __they *had been* rich._ (before that time)
_
Il *faut* que je le lui *dise*_. (now) / _Il *fallait* que je le lui *dise* _(or_ *disse*_, literary).  (at the time)
_Elle *regrette* qu'ils ne *soient* pas riches._ (now) / _Elle *regrettait* qu'ils ne *soient* pas_ _/ n'*aient *pas __*été* riches_ (or *fussent*, literary)_._ (at the time)
_Elle *regrette* qu'ils n'*aient* pas *été* riches._ (before now) / _Elle  *regrettait* qu'ils n'*aient *pas *été* riches_ (or *eussent été*,  literary)_._ (before that time)


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## L'Inconnu

"It was necessary that I tell her”
“Il fallait que je lui dise.” 

Americans might (may) say something like that, but it strikes me as being rather stylish. When the same subject is in both clauses, an infinitive is usually adopted. For example:

“It had been necessary to tell her”. 
“Il a faullu lui dire.”

Of course, you may have to use the subjunctive when you have different subjects in each clause, such as:

“J’ai/avais peur qu’il ne le fasse.”
“I am afraid that he will do it.”
“I was afraid that he would do it.”

“J’ai/avais peur qu’il ne l’aie fait.”
“I am/was afraid that he may have done it.”

Don’t worry about the ‘ne’. It’s just a customary style that has no negative meaning is this context.


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## Nicomon

L'Inconnu said:


> "
> “It had been necessary to tell her”.
> “Il a fallu lui dire.”


 I personally would translate "it had been necessary" as : « _il avait été nécessaire_ ».

To me, « Il a fallu lui dire » = "We/someone had to tell her" or "It was necessary to tell her".

As Maitre Capello explained in post #10, "it was necessary" can be rendered as _Il fallait /je devais_ or _Il a fallu/j'ai du_, context depending. 

Jenesuis wrote in the opening post "I had to tell her"... and in that case, I personally would use the _passé-composé,_ just like Chimel suggested.


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## L'Inconnu

Nicomon said:


> I personally would translate "it had been necessary" as : « _il avait été nécessaire_ ».
> 
> To me, « Il a fallu lui dire » = "We/someone had to tell her" or "It was necessary to tell her".
> 
> As Maitre Capello explained in post #10, "it was necessary" can be rendered as _Il fallait /je devais_ or _Il a fallu/j'ai du_, context depending.
> 
> Jenesuis wrote in the opening post "I had to tell her"... and in that case, I personally would use the _passé-composé,_ just like Chimel suggested.



I think that our simple past tense is more common usage, just as Jenesuispasuneparisienne wrote earlier. But, I’m wondering if our past perfect tense is really the correct usage. Our rule is basically the same as yours, the past perfect/pluperfect describes an event that happened prior to another past event. In this case, the condition of necessity was established _before_ the act of telling her. I see your point that it would be better to translate our pluperfect into your plus-que-parfait.

«J'avais dû lui dire»

or, in literary style we might write:

"Il eut fallu lui dire"


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