# definite vs indefinite conjugation



## Franek le Vaillant

Sziastok,

Here is a sentence I found in the book I'm currently using to learn Hungarian:

-Kerekes Gabor vagyok. Önt hogy hívják?
-Engem Don Fernandeznek hívnak. Örülök, hogy találkozunk.

The first hívnik is at the definite conjugation, whereas the second is at the indefinite. I nonetheless have the impression that the structure is the same, so why this difference? Could someone explain it to me?

I think I might have a lead: the first complement that calls for the definite conjugation refers to a third person (önt). Is that the answer?

Köszönöm szépen,
Ferenc


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## Zsanna

Szia Ferenc!

You've arrived at a delicate point: the choice of the definite and indefinite conjugation is one of the trickiest, I would say. (Even for some of the natives you can hear on Hungarian telly! )

Obviously, one would say that it all depends on whether the object of the sentence is definite (and could be replaced by "azt/őt") or indefinite (in that case, could be replaced by "valamit/valakit"). 
However, it is not as simple as that... 
But for the time being, I'll try to sum it up like this: 
"Önt" is a definite object without any doubt: a 3rd person - _person_ (+ "t" of the accusative - little as it counts in these cases).
"Engem", however, - together with all the other first and second person _persons_ in this row (i.e. téged, minket, titeket) - is an indefinite object, so the definite conjugation is out:
E.g.  Engem hív (he calls me), téged hív (he calls you), őt hívja (he calls him/her), minket hív (he calls us), titeket hív (he calls you), őket hívja (he calls them).


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## bibax

I have found:

Szeretek titeket.
Szeretem titeket.
Szeretlek titeket.

Which is correct?


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## Abendstern

the third one


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## Orreaga

Franek le Vaillant said:


> Here is a sentence I found in the book I'm currently using to learn Hungarian:
> 
> -Kerekes Gabor vagyok. Önt hogy hívják?
> -Engem Don Fernandeznek hívnak. Örülök, hogy találkozunk.


This is chapter 18 of the Assimil book... de szeretem azt a könyvet!  My favorite Hungarian language textbook.  Good luck with your studies!


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## Zsanna

Bibax, you put your finger on a very special aspect of the whole problem: apart from the "t" as a suffix marking the accusative we have a "special" one (the "l" in szeret*l*ek) for marking the second person definite object (both singular and plural, of course: szeretlek _téged_ or _titeket_) when the subject is the 1st person singular.

This is the aspect I did not want to enter because it complicates the whole thing further: i.e. it is not enough to decide what is a definite object and what is not but you also have to place the whole thing within a bit complicated pattern of conjugation. (I have made a nice little table about it to sum it up that I can send to anybody who is interested.)

How strange... I even taught from Assimil (and its authors have taught me ) but I didn't recognize the bit! Orreaga, you're very clever!


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## Franek le Vaillant

Thank you Zsanna for this enlightenment!


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## hayamburuk

I once wrote a story which contained the indefinite and the definite conjugation, here's an excerpt.

Egyszer, hol volt, hol nem volt, élt egy kisfiú, Jancsi volt a neve. Mindekit szeretett, s mindenki szerette mert oly becsületes volt, hogy nem tudott hazudni...

Once upon a time there lived a little boy named Johnny. He loved everybody and everybody loved him as he was ever so honest and could never tell a lie...

As far as I remember it works like this

*3rd person / 2nd person / 1st person \ 2nd person \ 3rd person*

inwards (eg "you ate me") = Indefinite Conjugation: - megettél

outwards (eg "you ate him") = Definite Congugation: - megetted

apart from "I ate you" which would use -lek: - megettelek

the rest of the story (in English)

...which was a very good thing, as his parents were incredibly strict. One day he told them he was going mushroom-picking in the forest, when the truth was that he was going skinny-dipping in the fishing lake with one of the local easy girls. He got what was coming to him when he drowned in the lake that day. "That taught him", said his parents.


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## Zsanna

Hello hayamburuk,
When the object is 3rd person (singular or plural) there is _always_ a choice, no matter who the subject is. (In fact, the beginning of your story proves just that! -> Mindenkit + indefinite conjugation and o"t + definite conjugation both 3rd person sing. subjects and still there is a difference!)
It doesn't depend on the subject but on the object of the sentence - in theory. (In your example it is the "nature" of the words designing the objects: _mindenkit_ and _o"t_ that decides for the different conjugation.)
Of course, you may find little tricks that can help even if linguistically they are not right - the point is that you know how to use these little tricks! 
In any case, thank you for sharing them!


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