# comida industrial



## Laia Bcn

Hi everyone,

When talking about industrial food (manufactured, prepared food, made at a factory) such as "tomate frito industrial", would you say:

- *Prepared tomato sauce
*or
- *Industrial tomato sauce
*
Or none of these? 

Thanks in advance


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## chinesca

Tomate frito is different from salsa de tomate.  I would just say Fried tomatoes.


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## Laia Bcn

I am talking about *salsa de tomate industrial*, and this is *tomato sauce*. 

Now, is it *industrial or prepared*? 
Thanks


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## chinesca

I would say that unless you specify "home made", all tomato sauces are industrially processed/produced.


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## catrina

Hola,
¿Es para una receta o para qué?


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## Txiri

This is the first time I think I've ever heard anyone refer to "industrial food."  

Most generically, here in the USA, we would call what you are talking about "canned tomato sauce."  From a somewhat more modern perspective, we speak about "processed foods":  they might come in glass containers as well as cans, or possibly frozen, in plastic bags ...  Processed foods are manufactured with additives like preservatives or chemicals or dyes.  Artificial ingredients.


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## Laia Bcn

Thanks a lot. Then it is PREPARED the word I need.


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## JennyTW

Why do you say "prepared"? Txiri doesn't mention that and I think the options of "canned" (or to a lesser extent "processed" are much better). 
Neither "industrial" nor "prepared" would be normal in English. 

I agree however on "Tomato sauce" ("fried tomatoes" would give completely the wrong impression).


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## inib

To me "tomato sauce" is the same as ketchup. For "tomate frito", I'd use "tomato puré".


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## JennyTW

inib said:


> To me "tomato sauce" is the same as ketchup. For "tomate frito", I'd use "tomato puré".



"Tomato puré" is something different again. It's much more concentrated; in The UK it comes in a tube, like toothpaste and in Spain it comes in a tiny tin. 

It's true that we often say "tomato sauce" for "ketchup" but if we say "spaghetti with tomato sauce" we certainly wouldn't mean "ketchup" so I think it is quite adaptable. I think "canned tomato sauce" would get around the problem and not imply "ketchup".


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## Laia Bcn

JennyTW said:


> Why do you say "prepared"? Txiri doesn't mention that and I think the options of "canned" (or to a lesser extent "processed" are much better).
> Neither "industrial" nor "prepared" would be normal in English.
> 
> I agree however on "Tomato sauce" ("fried tomatoes" would give completely the wrong impression).



I meant PROCESSED


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## JennyTW

Laia Bcn said:


> I meant PROCESSED



Ah OK then. 

And why don't you like "canned"? Is it because this "tomate frito" isn't actually in a can? It's just that "processed" has fairly negative associations. I immediately think of "processed cheese" which has little to do with "real" cheese.


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## Laia Bcn

In Spain processed tomato sauce is sold not only in cans but also in glass jars or tetra bricks. 

Furthermore, in the context I am translating the most important thing is the fact that the product comes from a factory (it is not home made), not the way it is presented (package). 

This is why the best translation for the composition "salsa de tomate industrial" when talking about non home made tomato sauces is "processed tomato sauce"


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## JennyTW

Laia Bcn said:


> In Spain processed tomato sauce is sold not only in cans but also in glass jars or tetra bricks.
> 
> Furthermore, in the context I am translating the most important thing is the fact that the product comes from a factory (it is not home made), not the way it is presented (package).
> 
> This is why the best translation for the composition "salsa de tomate industrial" when talking about non home made tomato sauces is "processed tomato sauce"



As you wish, but I certainly wouldn't buy it!


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## aloofsocialite

"Processed tomate sauce" would be understood, but as others have pointed out, it might not be the first choice of a native English-speaker.  Canned/tinned/jarred/a box of tomato sauce would be the most common.  But, "processed" is fine, just less usual and less appetizing (in my estimation).


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## Laia Bcn

JennyTW said:


> As you wish, but I certainly wouldn't buy it!



Is there any other word to refer processed tomato sauces without using the word canned (which refers to one certain package)?


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## aloofsocialite

Tomato sauce is very often of the "processed" variety around here, it's much less common for the average family to make it from fresh tomatoes, so most folks would automatically assume it was "processed" unless you said it was homemade.


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## JennyTW

It's quite difficult. Maybe "commercial"? No, perhaps not.

I do tend to agree with Aloof, but then we have the possible confusion with ketchup.

I would say that if from the context it's clear that it isn't ketchup, then just go with the plain "tomato sauce". As Aloof says US/UK people are possibly less likely to make it themselves and therefore


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## Laia Bcn

What about manufactured?


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## aloofsocialite

No, I would say "manufactured" is the least appetizing sounding of all of the options so far.

We generally manufacture machines, cars, equipment, but it sounds unappealing applied to foods.


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## Laia Bcn

Ok then, I'll use *processed *although it is not the first option an English native speaker would use...


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## JennyTW

Or what about "shop-bought tomato sauce"?


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## aloofsocialite

"Shop-bought tomato sauce" 

("Store-bought tomato sauce" in US Eng).

Seems like a good option to me too.


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## Laia Bcn

OK, "Shop-bought tomato sauce" is ok.

I don't like it very much but it sounds more natural to native speakers I see... 

Thanks for your help


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## inib

This(http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=868810 ) might be slightly off-topic as it doesn't specifically cover the tomato issue, but I hope it will be helpful to show how difficult it is to translate, (to everyone's satisfaction), the concept of "industrial" in "_bollería/comida/tomate industrial_".


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## Laia Bcn

inib said:


> This(http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=868810 ) might be slightly off-topic as it doesn't specifically cover the tomato issue, but I hope it will be helpful to show how difficult it is to translate, (to everyone's satisfaction), the concept of "industrial" in "_bollería/comida/tomate industrial_".



Thanks for you help!! I see he word PROCESSED again...i


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## aloofsocialite

Ha. There's nothing wrong with processed. 

When I think of processed foods, I think of products that have undergone an extensive metamorphosis to become what's being marketed, for example: packaged pastries, just about anything in the frozen foods aisle of the grocery store, but in reality, unless it's in it's most raw form (the things found in the fruits and vegetable section) most things in our markets here are highly processed, so I don't see anything wrong with using it.  If you were using it to sell food and to make it sound appealing, I don't think it will work, but as a simple descriptor, it's absolutely accurate and understandable.


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## inib

Yes, Aloof, I also think "processed" is the closest (and truest) word we'll ever get, if we're just stating a fact. On the other hand, if we're talking about an an advertising campaign, the mere word "processed" would put a lot of people off.


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## JennyTW

inib said:


> Yes, Aloof, I also think "processed" is the closest (and truest) word we'll ever get, if we're just stating a fact. On the other hand, if we're talking about an an advertising campaign, the mere word "processed" would put a lot of people off.


Yes, that's what I feel too.


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## Txiri

Sorry to pop back in again, especially after you all have come to a good solution.  One other possibility, borrowing from liquor stores, is "packaged."  Packaged tomato sauce.  We would understand that as "store-bought."  

It's funny how many variants we have of this and related products.  Jenny, what you describe as sold in a tube, can also be bought here in the USA in a tube, or in a small 6 oz or so size can, as "tomato paste."  It's concentrated.  We also sell in cans stewed tomatoes, diced tomatoes, tomato juice ... and none of these are sauce per se, but used to make sauce.  Tomato pure I would expect to be a thick-ish tomato juice-type product.


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## aloofsocialite

I absolutely agree with everything being said.


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## Laia Bcn

Well, finally I decided to use the word *PROCESSED* when talking about the fact that this tomato sauce IS NOT HOMEMADE.

_Processed tomato sauces vs. home made tomato sauces_

But then I decided to use *PACKAGED* when refering to those sauces which are already prepared, which one buys in a shop.


_Packaged tomato sauces bought at the supermarket vs. home made tomato sauces _(which are not bottled because I do them at home)  

What do you think about it??


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## inib

Laia Bcn said:


> Well, finally I decided to use the word *PROCESSED* when talking about the fact that this tomato sauce IS NOT HOMEMADE.
> 
> _Processed tomato sauces vs. home made tomato sauces_
> 
> But then I decided to use *PACKAGED* when refering to those sauces which are already prepared, which one buys in a shop.
> 
> 
> _Packaged tomato sauces bought at the supermarket vs. home made tomato sauces _(which are not bottled because I do them at home)
> 
> What do you think about it??



Well to be honest, I really can't see the difference. You seem to be using both terms as an antonym of "home-made". As there isn't a great tradition in the UK (are you talking about the UK?) of preparing and bottling this product, "tomato sauce/puré etc" would probably be automatically/by default be understood to be "_industrial_". Only if you make the stuff that I do (thanks to the tradition of my Spanish mother-in-law) would it be necessary to point out that it is "home-made".


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## Laia Bcn

inib said:


> Well to be honest, I really can't see the difference. You seem to be using both terms as an antonym of "home-made". As there isn't a great tradition in the UK (are you talking about the UK?) of preparing and bottling this product, "tomato sauce/puré etc" would probably be automatically/by default be understood to be "_industrial_". Only if you make the stuff that I do (thanks to the tradition of my Spanish mother-in-law) would it be necessary to point out that it is "home-made".



In fact I am talking about the Spanish tradition of doing it at home, yes. But you're right when you say both PROCESSED and PACKAGED are the same in this context. 

Yes, I could really just use PACKAGED, it's the best option. 


Thanks again to all of you who helped me a lot in this thread.


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## SydLexia

I quite like Jenny's suggestion in post #18: "commercial tomato sauce".

Some more possibilities:

"commercially produced tomato sauce",

"pre-packaged tomato sauce",

"ready-made tomato sauce".

syd


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## JennyTW

SydLexia said:


> I quite like Jenny's suggestion in post #18: "commercial tomato sauce".
> 
> Some more possibilities:
> 
> "commercially produced tomato sauce",
> 
> "pre-packaged tomato sauce",
> 
> "ready-made tomato sauce".
> 
> syd



Ready-made - excellent idea!

Though thinking about it, if you're in a country where that's the norm, as others have said, it sounds a bit strange to say it (or anything). I guess we would use "ready-made" for things that (possibly) would normally be made fresh. In our pre-packaged culture God knows what these might be, but possibly - pastry, custard, ummm.....


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## Laia Bcn

Oh NO! Now you say PRE-PACKAGED?? 
Is PACKAGED still valid??
Thanks!


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## SydLexia

Sorry about the 'pre', but it sounds more natural to me. 

I'm not clear about your context. Are you trying to make it sound (minimally) appetising? Are you basically selling/recommending it, or the home-made stuff?

I'd say "commercially-produced" is the most 'neutral'.

syd


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## inib

Laia Bcn said:


> Oh NO! Now you say PRE-PACKAGED??
> Is PACKAGED still valid??
> Thanks!


They mean the same thing , Laia. One might emphasise the factory process more than the other, but  they're never going to be close to the home-made stuff.


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## Laia Bcn

I don't want to sell, I'm just describing the difference between the _home-made _sauce and the_ "processed / industrial / prepared"_ sauce that is sold in a package (can, jar, glass, bottle). 
It doesn't need to be appetising at all, it must just describe a reality. 

On the other hand, I find the option "commercially-produced" too long... 

What do other native speakers think about the PRE-PACKAGED and the PACKAGED options?

Thank you!!


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## Laia Bcn

inib said:


> They mean the same thing , Laia. One might emphasise the factory process more than the other, but  they're never going to be close to the home-made stuff.



OK, fantastic then!!!!
Thanks inib.
I¡ll keep PACKAGED then!! Finally!!!!


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## Laia Bcn

inib said:


> They mean the same thing , Laia. One might emphasise the factory process more than the other, but  they're never going to be close to the home-made stuff.




OK, fantastic then!!!!
 Thanks inib.
 I'll keep PACKAGED then!! Finally!!!!


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## JennyTW

Laia, I feel really bad about this and sorry for you but honestly"(pre-)packaged tomato sauce" sounds dreadful!


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## aloofsocialite

I don't think it sounds "dreadful", but it definitely doesn't sound ideal.  What was the problem with "shop-bought"/"store-bought" tomato sauce?


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## Txiri

JennyTW said:


> Laia, I feel really bad about this and sorry for you but honestly"(pre-)packaged tomato sauce" sounds dreadful!



I wouldn't call it dreadful, but certainly redundant.  If it's packaged, it's obviously pre-packaged (at least to an American ear ...)  

Home-made sauce vs. ready-made sauce (both with hyphens.)
ready-made sauce = store-bought sauce (or shop-bought sauce) (informal)
I think "commercial" sauce is the descriptor we would use for what you were describing as "industrial", word which I don't think is used on either side of the Pond.

Note: I agree with AloofSocialite, above.  "Packaged" still works, too.  Laia, you can call us many things, but you cannot say we are not thorough.  lol.


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## JennyTW

Laia, the thing is that initially you didn't give us any context so we didn't know if you were only mentioning "tomate frito industrial" or whether you were trying to sell it or criticise it or what. Now that we know you are comparing the two types it makes the translation quite a lot easier. In that context I wouldn't have any problem with:
 "home-made versus processed tomato sauce"
because you are saying it's worse for you etc. As I said before, it would NOT be a good translation if you wanted people to actually buy it. 
Really, in THIS situation virtually any of the suggestions would be fine and perfectly clear;
"home-made versus processed/shop-bought/ready-made tomato sauce (I still don't like "packaged" -it makes me think of someone packing or wrapping something up, or something dry that comes in a packet like cereals etc). 

So just take your pick. But next time, please give us all your context first!


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