# FR: present perfect tense



## courtney w

Hi,
Could anyone help me with present perfect tense? I haven't learned it in French class, and would really like to know how to form it. For example,

"I have been working on this project for the past two hours."

How would the "I have been" part be translated in French?

Thanks so much,
Courtney


----------



## radagasty

> "I have been working on this project for the past two hours." 

_Je travaille sur ce projet depuis deux heures._

Note, though, that neither the French nor the English employs the perfect in this case.


----------



## J_P_BC

That's not the greatest example for learning the present perfect (called the _passé composé_ in French) for the first time, because the end of your sentence "...for the past two hours" would actually translate with the verb in the present in French.  It's a little strange - here's your example, translated:

"Je travaille sur ce projet depuis (les dernières) deux heures."

This is actually something you won't be learning about in a French class for a good while, as it doesn't follow the English rules at all.

*However.*  I can tell you how to form the perfect tense (passé composé).

 Subject + the verb _avoir_ or _être_ + past participle of main verb.

J'ai travaillé.  I have worked / I worked / I've been working
Tu as été.  You have been / You were
On a gagné.  One has (we have) won / We won
Nous avons perdu.  We have lost / We lost
Vous avez réussi...  You have succeeded...
Ils ont raté...  They have failed...

Note that some verbs (referred to as being in "la maison d'être"), which denote a change of state, etc., use the verb _être_ to form the passé composé.  This is a little bit more difficult, as the past participles all have to agree in number and gender with the subject - just like adjectives.

Je suis tombé(e).  I have fallen / I fell.
Tu es arrivé(e). You have fallen / You fell.
Il est allé. One has gone / One went.
Elle est allée.  He has gone / He went.
On est allé(e)(s). We have gone / We went.
Nous sommes venu(e)s.  We have come / We came.
Vous êtes allé(e)(s). You have gone / You went.
Ils sont tombés.  They have fallen / They fell.
Elles sont tombées.  They have fallen / They fell.

(I kind of reused a few verbs, didn't I?)

Notice all the *e's* and *s's* in parentheses.  An *e* is added when the subject is feminine (which is why there are no parentheses for Elle and Elles).  An *s* is added when the subject is plural.  If the subject "on" is used colloquially to mean "we," you will always add an *s.* 

Someone will probably provide a helpful little link, but there's my explanation for you.


----------



## courtney w

Yes, I'm quite familiar with passé composé, I learned it some time ago...this is what the present perfect is called in French? Really? If so I guess it's much simpler than I thought. 
It was thoughtful of you to go to all that work JP, I appreciate your effort!


----------



## J_P_BC

Were you asking, rather, how to say something in the _progressive_ case of the present perfect?  (Using the gerund, the "*...ing*" form of the verb?)  If that's the case, then... just know that there is not true equivalent of the progressive in French; it's considered fairly idiomatic in English.

I see your deletion message ; of what are you confused?  I'll do my best to explain.

The original example you provided, which translated in the French Present Tense, isn't quite as strange as it seems once it has been explained.  Would you like that I do so?  I'd like to help you with whatever it is about which you're confused.

And you're welcome; any time.  I like to know that I can still help people.

Jean Paolo


----------



## radagasty

Historically, the _passé composé_ was used with a perfective aspect, for the simple aspect was covered by the _passé simple_. This is still the case in literary language, but in speech, the _passé composé_ has more-or-les taken over the functions of the _passé simple_, and therefore expresses both the perfective and the simple aspect.


----------



## janpol

JP, tu as fait erreur dans l'un des messages qui précèdent : ils SONT tombés, elles SONT tombées (et non pas ONT). Attention, certains des verbes  qui exigent l'auxiliaire "être" se conjuguent  avec "avoir" s'ils ont un COD : il EST DESCENDU de son appartement, il A DESCENDU les escaliers quatre à quatre.
Je crois que l'on peut dire simplement 1°) que le passé composé remplace le passé simple dans la langue parlée (Il MARCHAIT depuis deux heures quand il A RESSENTI une douleur au pied gauche) et 2°) qu'il exprime l'antériorité par rapport au présent (je RELIS la lettre que j'AI ECRITE ce matin).


----------



## J_P_BC

Houp-là, il me faut corriger ces erreurs.  J'ai voulu écrire SONT, mais... ce n'était qu'une frappe, tous les deux fois.

Et vous présentez de bons points, janpol.  

Pardonnez-moi pendant que je corrige mes fautes.


----------



## jann

Hello Courtney W 

I'm sorry this is a long post, but if you stick with me to the end, I hope things will make a bit more sense!

Some tenses are used almost exactly the same way in French as they are in English.  Other tenses exist in both languages, but are used differently.  And some tenses that are used in one language simply don't exist in the other.  Obviously, the tenses that aren't used the same way in both languages tend to be confusing for students.

The English present perfect is an example of a tense that technically exists in both languages, but is really used very differently.  From a grammatical and historical perspective, the English "present perfect" has its equivalent in the French _passé composé.  _This is what several members described to you above.  But when it comes to meaning and everyday usage, the differences are so great that you may as well just consider them different tenses.  In fact, you can pretty much just tell yourself that the "present perfect" doesn't exist in French.  Focus instead on learning when to use the French tenses that do exist, such as the _passé composé _vs. the _imparfait_.


Ok, but now let me try to answer your question a bit more specifically.  I think you will find the part that is most interesting to you in the last example.  

In English, the present perfect is formed from the *present tense of "to have" + the past participle* of the verb.  We use the present perfect to express something that started in the past, may or may not have ended in the past, and most importantly, _is somehow still relevant to the speaker in the present at the moment he is speaking._  On the other hand, if the speaker was talking about something that started and ended in the past and is no longer relevant at the present moment, he would use the preterit (simple past) instead.  Compare the following sentences and think about the situations when you would use each:

present perfect / preterit
I have finished my homework. / I finished my homework.
She has gone to France 3 times. /  She went to France 3 times.
He has come to see you. / He came to see you.
I have lived here for 3 years. / I lived here for 3 years.

Now in French, there is a tense that, just like the present perfect, is formed from *the present tense of avoir ("to have") + the past participle* of the verb.  (For a few special cases, we use _être_="to be" instead of _avoir=_"to have" for the first part.)  This is called the _passé composé.  _But the similarities between French and English end there when we're talking about normal (non-literary) usage.  The _passé composé_ is used to express _punctual_ actions and events that _started in the past and ended in the past_.  In French, we don't care if the thing is somehow still relevant to the speaker.  But we do care very much about whether or not the thing was "punctual" - i.e., happened at a certain "point" in time and therefore lasted for a defined period of time, perhaps even just an instant - because if the thing is instead a description of some sort of condition that lasted for some indefinite while, we will need to use a different tense (the _imparfait_).  Notice how the punctual vs. indefinite distinction isn't important in English!

So let's look at those examples again:

Since finishing your homework happened in one instant (as soon as you put your pencil down after the last exercise, you were done), it is "punctual," and it requires _passé composé.  _You can't distinguish between "I have finished" and "I finished" in normal (non-literary) French.  You just have to use the _passé composé_ for both.  --> _J'ai terminé mes devoirs._

The exact same thing is true for "he has come" vs. "he came to see you."  Coming to see you was a punctual event that started and ended in the past, so it requires the _passé composé. _--> _Il est venu te voir_
"To come" is one of the special case verbs that use "to be" instead of "to have" for the first part of the _passé composé_.

"She has gone to France 3x" vs. "She went to France 3x" is much the same.  Going to France is an action that happened at a certain point in time.  Three separate points in time, to be precise.  Each of these trips was a "punctual" event that started and ended in the past, so you must use _passé composé_ to express both "has gone" and "went."   In English "she went..." just describes a fact.  But "she has gone..." sort of describes her as being a person who possesses in the present a certain characteristic - the characteristic of having been to France 3 times.  In informal speech, you could add some words in your French sentence to underline the difference between these two ideas.  If you just wanted to state a fact ("she went three times"), you would just say _Elle est allée 3 fois en France_.  But if you wanted to underline how this is relevant in the present, you could add another verb in the present:  _Ça fait 3 fois qu'elle est allée en France. ~ _"This makes three times that she went to France." ~ "She has been to France 3 times." Note that this sort of structure is more appropriate in speech than in writing. "To go" is another one of those special case verbs that use "to be" instead of "to have" for the first part of the _passé composé_.

Now for the last example.  

The present perfect is incredibly important in English when we are describing time.  "I have lived here for 3 years" means that you still live here.  "I lived here for 3 years" means that you have come back to the place that you don't live in any more, but that you occupied for 3 years at some point in the past.

In French, the past tense is reserved for things that are over.  "I have lived here for 3 yrs" started in the past (3 yrs ago) but it has not ended yet.  Therefore, you cannot use the _passé composé_ to talk about it.  You must use the present instead.
I have lived here for 3 yrs. (present perfect) -->_ J'habite ici depuis 3 ans. (présent)

_On the other hand, "I lived here for 3 years" is over.  Maybe you moved out yesterday, or maybe you're visiting the house where you lived as an infant, but your time there ended.  The event started in the past, ended in the past, and lasted for a defined duration of 3 yrs.  So you need the _passé composé.
_I lived here for 3 yrs. (preterit)  --> _J'ai habité ici pendant 3 ans. (__passé composé.__)

_Stick with me for one more variation on this example.  What if you just said "I lived here," but you never said how long?  Obviously, you don't live here any more, so this event started in the past and ended in the past.  Therefore we will be allowed to use a past tense in French.  But which one?  When you don't say how long your time here lasted, it's like saying "I used to live here" or even "I was living here [when X happened]." It's description of a condition (living here) that lasted for an indefinite length of time in the past.  That means we use the _imparfait_.  
When "I lived here" = I used to live here / I was living here... (preterit/imperfect aspect/past continuous) --> _J'habitais ici. (imparfait)
_On the other hand, there will be other times when because of what you want to say, you could not really replace "I lived here" by "I used to live here" or "I was living here"... and in these cases, the _passé composé _may well be a better choice.

For more examples of what tense to use in French when we have the present perfect + an expression of time in English, see here, or here, or here, etc.

So in the end, I would encourage you not to look for a "present perfect" tense in French, but rather to focus on 
(a) _passé composé vs. imparfait, _since we don't bother with this distinction in English 
(b) French verb tenses that go with particular _expressions of time_ such as "for," "since," "ago," "during," etc., since there tend to be differences between French and English regarding which tense to use

I hope that makes some sense, at least!


----------



## courtney w

Wow, Jann, thank you so much! What a perfect explanation, that's exactly what I was looking for, I just didn't know how to explain that! I really appreciate the time and effort it took you to type that out. 
It's very interesting that different things seem to matter when speaking French or English... I usually understand language concepts right away but I guess it's when you get into these finer points that it becomes confusing!
Once again, thank you so much! I'm sure I will be referring to this page in the future for a little refresher, so it's nice to know that it is all laid out here!
Courtney


----------



## GLàMTL

I find Jann's explanation very thorough and useful, but there is one subtle situation that I'm still curious about.

Sometimes I use the present perfect in a way so as to leave the time frame intentionally mysterious. For example:

I've been waiting for you (said in a sexy voice)
I've been watching you (said in a menacing voice)

I know that I could say something like:
Je t'attends depuis quelque temps

But if I want to make it sound more provocative, could I say:
Je t'attends ... (and just trail off)
or, Je t'attendais ...
or something else??


----------



## roymail

Avec *pendant*, c'est différent d'avec *depuis.*
Je t'attends pendant trois jours n'a pas de sens, sauf si c'est un présent historique ou narratif. _Toi, tu vas t'amuser et moi je t'attends pendant trois jours !
Je t'ai attendu *pendant *trois jours_ est normal, même si je ne suis pas sexy !

Mais _je t'attends *depuis *trois jours._


----------



## GLàMTL

Est-ce que vous répondez à moi, roymail?  Merci pour la réponse, mais je ne l'ai pas bien compris.  Peut-être ma question n'était pas très claire.  Je connais la difference entre depuis et pendant, mais je ne sais pas comment traduire le 'present perfect' sans préciser le 'time frame'.  (I don't know how to translate the present perfect while leaving the time frame purposely vague).

Par example, en anglais, on peut dire:

I've been waiting for 10 minutes
ou seulement
I've been waiting

Ma question est, est-ce qu'il y a une façon de dire
J'attends depuis 10 minutes

sans préciser _depuis 10 minutes_, afin d'être un peu énigmatic?


----------



## roymail

I've been waiting = j'ai attendu (I'm not waiting anymore)

I've been waiting for 10 minutes = j'attends depuis 10 minutes (It's the present in french, because i'm still waiting) OR j'ai attendu pendant 10 minutes.

I'm waiting = j'attends, je suis en train d'attendre

I wait = j'attends

I need more context to be sure I answer your question correctly.


----------



## GLàMTL

Hmm, I'm doing a very poor job of making my question clear

I'll give it just one last try.  Imagine a scene from a scary movie.  Person A walks into a dark room and is surprised to see person B already in the room.  Person B says 'I've been waiting for you' (and nothing else).  This is mysterious, we immediately wonder how long has B been waiting?  For what purpose?

How might one achieve a similar effect in French?

I hope my question is clear now, if not, I'll just have to let it go.  Thanks for bearing with me.


----------



## roymail

Dans ce cas, on dirait plutôt : ah ! te voilà ! Je t'attendais !


----------

