# "To Westernize _____"



## MYRNIST

Я стараюсь писать статью о роли Французского языка в царской интеллигенции. Хочу писать фразу "Когда Петр Великий начал 'Westernize' Русскую културу...", но не могу найти такой глагол в словаре.


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## Dmitry_86

I suppose it is very easy to try to guess the meaning of the word just on the basis of its structure. "West" denotes a part of the world and the ending means that he did something so that it became similar to that in the West. The verb is "to Westernize", though it is not an original verb of the English language. In Russian we may translate it as "Вестернизировать", "Западнизировать", which is however does not correspond to literary style and sounds a bit odd to me. The better way to do it is to say "сделать подобным Западу".

The key idea underlying this verb is that Peter Great, as soon as he started ruling the country, began the gradual process of converting Russian culture into the Western one, thus the influence of Western traditions, customs, way of life was extremely great. For this reason, the verb "Westernize" is used.


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## Kolan

MYRNIST said:


> Я пытаюсь писать статью о роли французского языка для царской интеллигенции. Хочу написать фразу "Когда Петр Великий начал 'Westernize' русскую культуру...", но не могу найти такой глагол в словаре.


Occasionally, you may write *озападнивать*.

*Новозаветная любовь \ ХРИСТИАНСТВО В СОВРЕМЕННОМ КИТАЕ / Китайский ...*
Однако основавшие Школу французские иезуиты хотели все более *озападнивать *содержание учебных программ, тогда как Ма настаивал, что студенты должны *...*
www.orthedu.ru/ch_hist/hist/istor.pom.-/10kitajskaja--/654novozavetnaja-ljub-.htm - 101k -

It would be better, however, to put it between the quotes, like *"озападнивать"*, because it is far from being common.

*Белорусский архив, Союз Беларуси и России, нужен или нет?, QUOTE ...*
Лучшее в мире образование было у нас. пока его не стали *"озападнивать". *Теперь оно рухнуло. Высочайшие стандарты в производстве опять же были у нас в СССР. *...*
arhiv-belorusi.sexnarod.ru/topic177418_35.html - 79k


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## Ptak

> Я стараюсь написать статью о роли французского языка в царской интеллигенции (?). Хочу написать фразу "Когда Петр Великий начал 'westernize' русскую культуру...", но не могу найти такой глагол в словаре.


_Когда Перт Великий начал западнизацию русской культуры..._


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## bravo7

Если нет глагола, можно обойтись существительным:
"Когда Пётр Великий начал вестернизацию русской культуры, ..."


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## Druhie

I believe *озападнивать* (as it was assumed above) would be the best choice.


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## bravo7

Google search: 
озападнивать - 6
западнизировать - 198
вестернизировать - 739


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## Druhie

bravo7 said:


> Google search:
> озападнивать - 6
> западнизировать - 198
> вестернизировать - 739



They all sound equally odd to me and are far from being widespread, with the only difference that западнизировать and вестернизировать are nothing but a calque from the English verb 'to westernize'. Unlike them, озападнивать obeys to the rules of Russian word-formation and seems more appropriate in this context, in my opinion.
Anyways, they all would be correct. Вестернизировать would much better fit in a scientific text but I'd never say it in spoken Russian. Neither would I use it in literary style, I'd use "озападнивать" here instead. As for publicism, it doesn't make much difference to my ear.


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## Maroseika

MYRNIST said:


> Я стараюсь пытаюсь писать статью .


 
Вестернизация looks a kind of anachromism as applied to that epoch for being widely and mostly used to describe similar events of the 20th century.
Западнизация is nothing more than a funny occasionalism, generating in addition unnecessary allusions.
I agree there is no appropriate verb in Russian and the only way is to reformulate the phrase, something like that: ... начал прививать западную культуру...


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> I agree there is no appropriate verb in Russian and the only way is to reformulate the phrase, something like that: ... начал прививать западную культуру...



I second that.  All the verbs suggested above sound horrible in Russian.


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> ... начал *прививать* западную культуру...


Maybe, *насаждать*, depending on context.


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## Druhie

Q-cumber said:


> I second that.  All the verbs suggested above sound horrible in Russian.



Perhaps (and most likely ) it's just me but I disagree with this point. Depending on context, I guess each of them would do (maybe for the exception of западнизировать).
But restructuring the sentence is a good option indeed.


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## Kolan

Usually it was (and still is) required to underline the negative side of westernization, like подвергнуть тлетворному влиянию Запада. The regular terms mentioned above do not convey such a meaning.


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## libertario

Do you guys get insulted by me "westernising" my Russian? I'm quite unfamiliar with cyrillic keyboard layouts. 

I would though agree that all the verbs which have been mentioned simply sound odd and are in no way eloquent; "vyestyernizatsiya // vyestyernizirovat'" sounds simply awful and like something relating to Western movies. I'd recommend rephrasing to perhaps:

"Kogda Petr I náchal podvyergat' russkuyu kul'turu vliyaniyu zapada..."

literally: "When Peter the Great began making the Russian culture a subject of Western influence"

I'd though agree that it could have a slightly negative connotation.


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## Maroseika

libertario said:


> I would though agree that all the verbs which have been mentioned simply sound odd and are in no way eloquent; "vyestyernizatsiya // vyestyernizirovat'" sounds simply awful and like something relating to Western movies. .


 
Not at all. It sounds quite normal and is really widely used - but usually not with reference to the epoch of Peter I:

http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&efr=x&zar=x&ag=x&ab=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x&word=%E2%E5%F1%F2%E5%F0%ED%E8%E7%E0%F6%E8%FF

http://search.ruscorpora.ru/search....u&req=%E2%E5%F1%F2%E5%F0%ED%E8%E7%E0%F6%E8%FF+

http://search.ruscorpora.ru/search....u&req=%E2%E5%F1%F2%E5%F0%ED%E8%E7%E0%F6%E8%E8


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> Not at all. It sounds quite normal and is really widely used - but usually not with reference to the epoch of Peter I:
> ....



Oh those web search results!   Do you _personally_ like the word < ...provided you have "zero-knowledge of English">?


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## Maroseika

Q-cumber said:


> Oh those web search results!  Do you _personally_ like the word < ...provided you have "zero-knowledge of English">?


 Mean?...


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> Mean?...



Я имею в виду: что Вы лично думаете о таком глаголе, при условии (допущении), что вы абсолютно не владеете английским языком и значение слова "Western" для Вас покрыто мраком тайны?   Мне кажется, что знание "первоисточника" делает человека более лояльным к подобным нелогизмам. Поэтому я и добавил такое дополнительное условие в свой вопрос.


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