# Persian: "گرسنه" declension



## cim bom

Hello, 
As I hear in persian it is said "gorosname", not "gorosneam" ("I am hungry"). But in the second person single it is said "gorosnei", as the usal declension of any other adjective or noun. What is the complete declension of the adjectives or nouns those end with "ه" ("eh"). Especially in the first person singular ("I am ...") third person plural ("they are ..."). Is it "goorosnean(d)" or "gorosnan(d)e" in the third person plural?
Thank you in advance.


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## Jervoltage

Hi,

من گرسنمه
تو گرسنته
اون گرسنشه
ما گرسنمونه
شما گرسنتونه
اونا گرسنشونه​


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## cim bom

Thank you for your reply *Jervoltage*. As I see, it is declined like it would decline with possesive pronouns. I mean "gorosnete = your hungry", "gorosnemune - our hungry", etc. Why the auxiliary verb "hastan" is omitted? Is it possible to decline any adjective or noun in the similar way? I mean, can we say "oo khoshbakhtesh - he is lucky", "shoma khoshbakhtetun - you are lucky", "oonha khoshbakhteshun - they are lucky", etc. 
 I also have heard that it is used "gorosne-i?" to ask if someone is hungry, informally. Thank a lot to all in advance again, who will explain my confusion on this matter.


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## Aryamp

Hi

Gorosne / گرسنه = hungry 

گرسنه ام gorosne am = Gorosne hastam گرسنه هستم = I am hungry    -  and in colloqual pronunciation it becomes 'gorosnam'   this structure is very straight forward as it is just like the English equivalent "I am hungry"  I am + adjective.

So in fact "gorosneam / gorosnam" is used in Persian!  The 'e' gets omitted in colloquial speech due to the language's tendency to simplify pronunciation of adjacent vowels, just as  _"gorosne ast"_ becomes _"gorosnast" _


They are hungry = gorosne hastand = gorosne and = "gorosnand" 


Another structure we use quite often is "_gorosname"_ , this is in fact "gorosne am + hast"     the confusion is that "am" here is not the shortened form of the verb "to be"  but the possessive pronoun "my"! As you know in Persian "dustam" could mean either "my friend" or "I am friend" depending on context (and accent pattern)

This structure (adjective + possessive pronoun + hast) is used with many adjectives but not all. For example we cannot use it for "khoshbakht"  however we can use it for "sakht"  "Sakhtam ast" = it is hard for me . 

I cannot think of a rule as to when its permissible to use this structure, I guess one has to only memorize, some usages are archaic now for example _"khâbam hast" = I'm sleeping_ is used in a poem of Hafiz however nobody says it like that nowadays.

And note that the verb "hast" does not get omitted it is simply used in its short form in colloqual speech "e"  as in  _Khoob hast = khoob-e = it is good_


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## cim bom

Thank you very much *Aryamp *for you detailed and clear explanation. Actually, I know the shortened form of "hastan" declension in colloqual Persian, but I couldn't catch the point that "e" at the end of "gorosnam-e" was the colloqual version of 3. singular "hastan" declension. As I understand, it is possible for some adjectives or nouns to be said "*it is + my/your/his/our/their + noun/adjective*", "*adjective/noun + am/et/esh/emun/etun/eshun + hast (shortened to "e")*" like "khaabam-e" (shortened version of "khaabam hast" of classical persian, given as an example, even if it is not used like that anymore). But I think the normal version is used as "gorosnam", "gorosne-i", "gorosnast", "gorosne-im", "gorosne-in/d", "gorosnan(d)", no?


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## eskandar

Am I correct in thinking that in informal/colloquial speech, _gorosname _(et al) somehow become pronounced like _goshname_, _goshnate_, and so on?


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## Aryamp

cim bom said:


> ... But I think the normal version is used as "gorosnam", "gorosne-i", "gorosnast", "gorosne-im", "gorosne-in/d", "gorosnan(d)", no?



 You're welcome! and Yes you've got it right! 

 About _Gorosname _vs _Gorosneam _both are used quite often, though the former is more often found in colloquial speech.




eskandar said:


> Am I correct in thinking that in informal/colloquial speech, _gorosname _(et al) somehow become pronounced like _goshname_, _goshnate_, and so on?



_Gorosne _and _Goshne _are two separate words. You can say _Gorosne am_,  or_ Goshne am/  Gorosname _or_ Goshname_





 For a more detailed comparison of all these terms you can check out this thread after post # 10


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## eskandar

Aryamp said:


> Gorosne and Goshne are two separate words. You can say Gorosne am,  or Goshne am/  Gorosname or Goshname
> 
> For a more detailed comparison of all these terms you can check out this thread after post # 10


Thanks for the link, good to have this clarification. I'm not entirely convinced that we should think of _gorosne_ and _goshne_ as separate words, any more than _khaane_ and _khune_ are separate words; I would think of _goshne_ as a colloquial deformation of _gorosne_ and the two existing as variants of the same word that can be used according to register/taste/etc. But maybe I'm just splitting hairs!


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## Aryamp

eskandar said:


> Thanks for the link, good to have this clarification. I'm not entirely convinced that we should think of _gorosne_ and _goshne_ as separate words, any more than _khaane_ and _khune_ are separate words; I would think of _goshne_ as a colloquial deformation of _gorosne_ and the two existing as variants of the same word that can be used according to register/taste/etc. But maybe I'm just splitting hairs!



I should have clarfied that I wasn't talking from an etymological point of view. In the case of _Khane _and _khune_, that is indeed just a matter of pronunciation, however goshne and gorosne are independent words in that they have separate entries in most dictionaries, also there are slight differences in their usage.


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## Jervoltage

It is also worth noting that گسنه (gosne) is used instead of گرسنه (gorosne) in some dialects of Persian.


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## cim bom

Thank you all for the explanations and contributions. It is obvious that colloquial Persian requires additional endeavor, notwithstanding it brings in additional enjoyment.


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## eskandar

Aryamp said:


> goshne and gorosne are independent words in that they have separate entries in most dictionaries, also there are slight differences in their usage.


Interesting - what are the differences in usage? Is it just tone/formality or is there more to the difference?


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## Aryamp

eskandar said:


> Interesting - what are the differences in usage? Is it just tone/formality or is there more to the difference?




_Goshne _compared to _Gorosne _indicates a more temporary (less severe) type of hunger like when you skip a meal you are _goshne_ (or gorosne as they are totally interchangeable in this sense), however _Gorosne _sometimes indicates a more persistent/severe hunger as in the case of  _starvation_/_malnutrition_.

 For instance we talk about people being _'gorosne' _in a poor country, in this context _goshne _cannot be used. 

 Or we say_ gorghaye gorosne be gusfandha hamle kardand_ = ravenous wolves attacked the sheep 
Here _Goshne _would make it sound funny as if the wolves needed a snack or something.


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## eskandar

I see. That makes a lot of sense, actually - I wouldn't have thought to  explain it that way but it jives with the feel that I have for these  words. Thanks!


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## Treaty

There are two differences between _goshne _and _gorosne_: 

1- _Goshne _is rarely used in formal and literal language.

2- While both mean starving and hungry (and so malnourished), _gorosne_ also means craving and ravenous in some context.

They are (along with _gosne_) from a same root (that I suppose to be _gurshna_) but have separated long time ago.



Aryamp said:


> This structure (adjective + possessive pronoun + hast)  is used with many adjectives but not all. For example we cannot use it  for "khoshbakht"  however we can use it for "sakht"  "Sakhtam ast" = it  is hard for me .
> 
> I cannot think of a rule as to when its permissible to use this  structure, I guess one has to only memorize, some usages are archaic now  for example _"khâbam hast" = I'm sleeping_ is used in a poem of Hafiz however nobody says it like that nowadays.



For me it seems there are three different structures (or three different meaning of a structure):

1- _khaabam ast_  is a *noun*+pronoun + "to be" that seems to be a short form of_ kasi raa chizi budan_ (someone to have something) and is frequently found in classic literature (e.g., _khabaram hast_). 

2- _sakhtam ast_ (arch. _maraa sakht aayad/baashad_) seems to mean it is hard for me (_maraa _/ _-am_) that is the same structure with #1.

3- But _goshname_ is, as you said, *adjective*+pronoun  + "to be", that usually means "I feel ...". I have not seen this  structure in classic Persian. And, as far as I remember, there are only  four of them _sard_, _garm_, _goshne _(_gorosne_) and _teshne_ (and probably _haali_?).


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## eskandar

Treaty said:


> 1- _khaabam ast_  is a *noun*+pronoun + "to be" that seems to be a short form of_ kasi raa chizi budan_ (someone to have something) and is frequently found in classic literature (e.g., _khabaram hast_).


Would you analyze something like _che khabarete!?_ to be the same phenomenon? If so, then we also have a modern example.


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## Treaty

eskandar said:


> Would you analyze something like _che khabarete!?_ to be the same phenomenon? If so, then we also have a modern example.



It can be the same (_che khabar daari?_), but it can also be simply _khabarat chist_? . This applies to _chete?_ and _che margete?_.


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## Jervoltage

I always thought of گشنه simply as the colloquial گرسنه.


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