# Usted / Tú (Formal/informal)



## SharonF

Hello again,

Well you've all been so helpful I can't resist asking all my burning questions.  

I'm confused about when it is appropriate to choose tu over usted and visa versa.  The Spanish language learning tools I've been studying are emphasising more everyday informal conversation.  So mostly the tu form for verbs with occasional references to 'if you want to be more formal then say...'

The "simple rule" that has been stated is if one is on a first name basis with someone then tu is appropriate.  Otherwise use usted.  

I wonder if there is more to it than that?  

Here is an example.  There is a (divorced) man where I work who is a native spanish speaker.  I know him only by his first name.  I am a happily married woman seeking only to improve my spanish!!  So I ask a lot of language related questions, how do I say this or that or do I have this right kinds of things.  I worry that by using the 'familiar' forms with him that, well, he might get the wrong idea.   

Can someone set me straight on this??  Thanks in advance again!

Sharon


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## funnydeal

There are some threads that I am sure will be helpful


http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=3607


http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=3650


http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=3843


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## jacinta

Hi Sharon,

I will tell you that it is my experience that you can never go wrong in using the usted form with people you don't know well, especialy if they are older.  In fact, I have in the past "tuteado" people who have used "usted" with me in return.  I now use only the usted form until I feel comfortable enough to ask if they mind that I "tutearte".  This is coming from a "gringa" and I'm sure you'll get more advice from the natives.


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## lauranazario

jacinta said:
			
		

> Hi Sharon,
> 
> I will tell you that it is my experience that you can never go wrong in using the usted form with people you don't know well...




I agree 100% with Jacinta. In most Latin (Spanish-speaking cultures) it is considered very improper to address people in the "tú" mode right off the bat, especially among adults and regardless of their age. It is not polite to address a stranger or a coworker or a casual acquaintance with the informal "tú"... until the person has told you it's okay to engage in "tuteo".

-Sra. Rodríguez aquí están los documentos que usted me pidió (Mrs. Rodríguez, here are the documents you asked for.)
- Ay Juan déjate de cosas... cuando me dices "usted" me haces sentir vieja. De ahora en adelante, me dices "tú". (Oh Juan, come on.... you calling me "usted" makes me feel old! From now on it's "tú".)
- Oh, está bien. Gracias María. (Oh, okay. Thanks María.)

You don't have to engage in the "tú" right then and there, but you have been advised that it's okay to address the person informally from now on.

Furthermore, evein in particular Spanish-speaking cultures, there are certain instances where people NEVER seem to adopt the informal "tú". For example, Colombians always address each other in the "usted" mode... well at least that's been my experience with the very few Colombians I know.  PLUS... in Colombian soap operas you always see people of all ages addressing themselves as "usted"!!! 

Yeah, yeah... there are a lot of Colombian soaps being broadcast here... 

Saludos,
L.


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## Maeron

I think that when to use _tú_ or _usted_ is something I would have had to be born into the culture or enter into it as a child to understand. We who come from a language that doesn't distinguish between different levels of formality in the same systematized way can't hope to learn the rules, especially considering that the "rules" are different in different countries and social milieus. 

I take my cue from other people. Unless the other person is a child or a teenager, (I'm the same age as you, Sharon, BTW), I start with _usted_, and don't switch to _tú_ unless the other person does so first. The only exception would be a person much older than me (a generation difference or more), whom I keep on calling _usted_ even when they call me _tú_. My parents-in-law and my husband's aunts and uncles, for example.

I figure that you could offend someone or give them the wrong idea by using _tú_, but _usted _will never offend. We English-speakers may have the idea that _usted_, because it is more respectful, is more distant and cold and less intimate, but it is not so, really. The idea that _tú_ in Spanish equates to first-name basis in our culture is only a rough, very rough approximation, and at a certain point in our penetration into Spanish-speaking cultures, we have to let go of that idea, because it is not entirely accurate.


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## David

Sharon,

If the gent is much younger than you, he would neither be surprised nor offended by your calling him tú, even if he addresses you as Vd. If, on the other hand, you address him as Ud. and he addresses you as tú, then you would have to add that clue to many others about whether he is getting overly familiar. If he is an older person, closer to your age, and a polite one, he would be unlikely to address you as tú for a long time. If he does, it could mean one of two things: he is the son of immigrants to the US who grew up speaking Spanish at home and English everywhere else, not really understanding the subtleties of his "own" language; or he figures as a beginner you find it easier to understand sentences using the familiar forms.

It´s not so much familiarity...a young man I practically raised, who lived in my house for years, whose best man I was, and who is my compadre, would never dream of calling of me tú...even though as man to man and friend to friend, we are very close, simply because of the generational divide.

Rather than looking for a rule, think of the circumstances. Is he the kind of guy who would say, "Hey, Shar, you got a copy of that report on widgets?" Or is the kind of guy who would say, "Excuse me Sharon, would you mind lending me a copy of the widget report?" Either style would be OK, depending on circumstances, in an informal American office. Which style would you use with him in English? You can choose between tú and Vd., and evaluate what his use of tú might mean,  on more or less the same basis. If he is a "Hey, Shar" kind of guy, using tú is not necessarily offensive, and if you are a "Hey, Carlos, don´t bug me till I finish this report!" kind of colleague, he won´t misinterpret the tú.

He dicho. Perdónen...


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## Tormenta

SharonF said:
			
		

> Hello again,
> 
> Well you've all been so helpful I can't resist asking all my burning questions.
> 
> I'm confused about when it is appropriate to choose tu over usted and visa versa.  The Spanish language learning tools I've been studying are emphasising more everyday informal conversation.  So mostly the tu form for verbs with occasional references to 'if you want to be more formal then say...'
> 
> *The "simple rule" that has been stated is if one is on a first name basis with someone then tu is appropriate.  Otherwise use usted.
> *
> I wonder if there is more to it than that?
> 
> Here is an example.  There is a (divorced) man where I work who is a native spanish speaker.  I know him only by his first name.  I am a happily married woman seeking only to improve my spanish!!  So I ask a lot of language related questions, how do I say this or that or do I have this right kinds of things.  I worry that by using the 'familiar' forms with him that, well, he might get the wrong idea.
> 
> Can someone set me straight on this??  Thanks in advance again!
> 
> Sharon




Hi Sharon,

One more comment.  In Argentina and in most Latin American countries being on a first name basis with somebody does not mean that it is appropriate to say  " tú" .  This is the case of parents-in-law, usually people will use  "usted" when addressing parents-in-law, but they will be on a first name basis.

There are many, many times when you can be on a first name basis with people and yet the use of "tú" would not be appropriate.

I am on a fist name basis with the parents of all my friends in Argentina, this people, of course, are old enough to be my parents.  I do not call them " Mr. and Mrs.  García" , I call them " Claudia and Marco" but using the "usted" form.

To be on the safe side, if I am not sure how to address somebody, I would say "usted".


Tormenta


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## Artrella

If you want to keep certain distance with that colleague of yours, say "Usted" to him, no matter you know him only by his first name, or if he is married/divorced young or old.

The "Usted" conveys this idea of distance and certain "coldness".



Hope it helps; Art


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## lauranazario

Artrella said:
			
		

> The "Usted" conveys this idea of distance and certain "coldness".



Well, not really "coldness" (that is conveyed by the tone of voice you may choose to use)... but _usted_ definitey denotes respect.... and even a degree of "distance" when dealing with coworkers, especially your superiors.


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## cristóbal

I'm just going to throw out a question that's in relation to this subject.... a lo mejor ya se ha tratado en otro sitio... pero siendo perezoso, no lo busco, siento mucho.

So, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed it, but at least among Americans, it's VERY common in my opinion for beginners (and up to the intermediate level, I would say, sometimes further) to always use the "tú" form when speaking to anyone.  I'm wondering why this is the case...  Should maybe Spanish teachers in the states stress the conjugations of Usted?   It's interesting, because one would imagine that it would be easier to think in Usted first, given that it is conjugated the same as 3rd person... But even I am guilty of this, and very often it's difficult to catch myself and use Usted when I should.  Any theories?
Sometimes it makes me cringe when my American companions (who are all about 20 years old) refer to a 40 or 50 year old Spaniard, whom they have never met, using tú.  I just hope that the Spaniard assumes that since they are foreign that they haven't mastered the fact that that's impolite (or perhaps a bit more than impolite... offensive maybe?)

To add a bit to the subject also, in my architecture classes here in Madrid we have two professors in one studio, all the students always refer to the Catedrático using Usted, whereas the younger "assistant" professor gets a mixture of usted and tú... I stay on the safe side with usted for both of them.
Whereas in another class I have a profesora who is probably in her late twenties, and I have this burning desire to tutear her... I tend to use age difference as my key for using tú or usted.


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## Artrella

cristóbal said:
			
		

> I'm just going to throw out a question that's in relation to this subject.... a lo mejor ya se ha tratado en otro sitio... pero siendo perezoso, no lo busco, siento mucho.
> 
> So, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed it, but at least among Americans, it's VERY common in my opinion for beginners (and up to the intermediate level, I would say, sometimes further) to always use the "tú" form when speaking to anyone.  I'm wondering why this is the case...  Should maybe Spanish teachers in the states stress the conjugations of Usted?   It's interesting, because one would imagine that it would be easier to think in Usted first, given that it is conjugated the same as 3rd person... But even I am guilty of this, and very often it's difficult to catch myself and use Usted when I should.  Any theories?
> Sometimes it makes me cringe when my American companions (who are all about 20 years old) refer to a 40 or 50 year old Spaniard, whom they have never met, using tú.  I just hope that the Spaniard assumes that since they are foreign that they haven't mastered the fact that that's impolite (or perhaps a bit more than impolite... offensive maybe?)
> 
> To add a bit to the subject also, in my architecture classes here in Madrid we have two professors in one studio, all the students always refer to the Catedrático using Usted, whereas the younger "assistant" professor gets a mixture of usted and tú... I stay on the safe side with usted for both of them.
> Whereas in another class I have a profesora who is probably in her late twenties, and I have this burning desire to tutear her... I tend to use age difference as my key for using tú or usted.






Well, I agree with you in the age matter.  We tend here, in Argentina, to "tutear" (vosear, in our case) young teachers, but in the case there is an important age gap, we use Usted.  
But sometimes, they overuse  "vos/tú" and that really annoys me!!

I think in the case of your young teacher (unless she doesn't want to be "tuteada") it would be nicer to address her by "tú" than "Usted".  Sometimes when people say "usted" to me, I feel OLD!!!  So I say "tratame de vos".....


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## cristóbal

Artrella said:
			
		

> Well, I agree with you in the age matter.  We tend here, in Argentina, to "tutear" (vosear, in our case) young teachers, but in the case there is an important age gap, we use Usted.
> But sometimes, they overuse  "vos/tú" and that really annoys me!!
> 
> I think in the case of your young teacher (unless she doesn't want to be "tuteada") it would be nicer to address her by "tú" than "Usted".  Sometimes when people say "usted" to me, I feel OLD!!!  So I say "tratame de vos".....



Should I ask?  I would feel very strange asking that question... it's one of those questions that is hard to ask and hard to answer.


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## SharonF

cristóbal said:
			
		

> So, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed it, but at least among Americans, it's VERY common in my opinion for beginners (and up to the intermediate level, I would say, sometimes further) to always use the "tú" form when speaking to anyone.  I'm wondering why this is the case...  Should maybe Spanish teachers in the states stress the conjugations of Usted?   It's interesting, because one would imagine that it would be easier to think in Usted first, given that it is conjugated the same as 3rd person... But even I am guilty of this, and very often it's difficult to catch myself and use Usted when I should.  Any theories?



Hi,
Thanks to everyone for their input.  I really appreciate it.   

On the matter of why beginners seem to use 'tu' and not 'usted' I will give you my beginner experience.  First, I'm an adult choosing to learn Spanish for personal enjoyment and enrichment.  I'm learning on my own via online resources, cds, and computer based training.  I have a few native Spanish speakers I encounter in my day to days (some who have English that is worse that my Spanish!) with whom I can 'converse' <the word used rather loosely!!LOL> to give me some real world experience.  

The Spanish language courses to which I have been exposed suggest that 'real' natives use 'tu' amongst themselves.  They mention if you want to be more formal or are speaking to someone you would otherwise address by a title then you would use usted.  However it is almost a sidebar.  They emphasize tu because (they say) that is how people talk to each other in reality.  

What isn't said is that one must be invited to use 'tu'.  I did read that tidbit somewhere along the line which is how I am now so confused.  The bulk of my lesson exposure emphasises tu yet I'm hearing that I ought not use it.  And worse I have to make some sort of culturally educated choice!! ACK.  Too much pressure!!!    It almost makes me not want to talk for fear of making a terrible faux pas! 

In any case, I am going to pay closer attention to usted and stick with that until told to do otherwise.  I do like that the conjugations are easier!! (same as he/she/it)

Thanks to all!!!

Sharon


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## bgmassot

Hi,

just one more thing about this subject: take into account that this changes a lot between countries. I think that in Spain the use of 'tú' is more extended than in Latin America, it seems that they use 'usted' much more than we do in Spain. Maybe we are a bit strange here in Barcelona, as we usually mix Spanish and Catalan, but the normal way to address a professor in University, unless he/she is an important person or something like that, is using 'tú'. I would also use 'tú' with anybody with whom I see quite often at work, at uni or in any other place, unless they are on their sixties or above. I know too that many people would use 'usted' with people like their grandparents or their parents, but for me and most of my acquaintances it is normal to use 'tú'.

In any case, this is changing quite a lot: probably someone a bit older than me would use 'tú' and 'usted' in a different way. But I guess that most of the people you can speak to in Spanish in the USA come from Latin American countries, so you'd better stick to what other people said about it


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## mjscott

It is _very_ hard to stay away from tuteando! However, proper formality is never out of fashion! I think that Cristóbal has a point. Not only are Spanish as a second language students in America taught to tutear before learning the ropes of Spanish, they are also not warned of offending people of other cultures by assuming too much! It's like the doctor who thinks it's okay to call you by your first name--just because he's younger than you! 

Most regions have particular rules about addressing older people, addressing peers and addressing God. An interesting point I noticed when visiting a particular place in Costa Rica--They used Vd. for all people in their family, and tú when addressing God in prayer. When I asked about it, they said, "Oh, no! I would _never_ consider using tú with my family! (not even children!) Tú is reserved for my most intimate of relationships--and my most intimate relationship is with my God!"

"When in Rome, do as the Romans!"


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## Artrella

cristóbal said:
			
		

> Should I ask?  I would feel very strange asking that question... it's one of those questions that is hard to ask and hard to answer.





Cristóbal...I do not understand?? What are you asking?    Art


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## cristóbal

Artrella said:
			
		

> Cristóbal...I do not understand?? What are you asking?    Art



It was more of a rhetorical question, I was wondering if I should ask her if she would mind if I used tú with her.


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## Artrella

cristóbal said:
			
		

> It was more of a rhetorical question, I was wondering if I should ask her if she would mind if I used tú with her.





Yes, I think it would be nice.  I don't mind when people ask me that. Your question is respectful because you are asking her before "tutearla" which it'd be, to my point of view, impolite.  So if you ask her, I think she will agree.

Good luck!!! Art


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## Tormenta

mjscott said:
			
		

> It is _very_ hard to stay away from tuteando! However, proper formality is never out of fashion! *I think that Cristóbal has a point. Not only are Spanish as a second language students in America taught to tutear before learning the ropes of Spanish, they are also not warned of offending people of other cultures by assuming too much!* It's like the doctor who thinks it's okay to call you by your first name--just because he's younger than you!
> 
> Most regions have particular rules about addressing older people, addressing peers and addressing God. An interesting point I noticed when visiting a particular place in Costa Rica--They used Vd. for all people in their family, and tú when addressing God in prayer. When I asked about it, they said, "Oh, no! I would _never_ consider using tú with my family! (not even children!) Tú is reserved for my most intimate of relationships--and my most intimate relationship is with my God!"
> 
> "When in Rome, do as the Romans!"





I totally agree with you, mjscott.  During many years, I worked in central America; about 50% of my co-workers were volunteers from the USA who had  learnt English at home. Almost each one of them used "tú" to matter whom they were addressing.  They had a hard time to understand that it is not a matter of choice, you can't just use "tú" or  "usted" as you please. Using "tú" with the wrong person can be consider totally our of order.  I am a native Spanish speaker but whenever I am not sure how to address somebody, I  use  "usted".

Tormenta


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## juanma

Allow me rule of thumb for a joke:

Do you think the people you are talking to consider themselves smarter, richer or older than yourself and they want to make a point about it? Use "usted"


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## Edwin

Artrella said:
			
		

> Yes, I think it would be nice.  I don't mind when people ask me that. Your question is respectful because you are asking her before "tutearla" which it'd be, to my point of view, impolite.  So if you ask her, I think she will agree.



Suppose she doesn't agree. That would make it awkward for her.  I would think that it would be more graceful to use usted and wait for her to invite you to tutearla?


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## cristóbal

Edwin said:
			
		

> Suppose she doesn't agree. That would make it awkward for her.  I would think that it would be more graceful to use usted and wait for her to invite you to tutearla?



See, that's what I was thinking... but for some reason I get the idea this is an "American" attitude, about putting her in an awkward situation... as there are a lot of things that just aren't done "that way" in the Hispanic world... there are a lot of things that we would never do, or would definitely think twice before doing, that they do naturally or see no problem in doing. (e.g. see the "que me cago en la..." thread)


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## cristóbal

juanma said:
			
		

> Allow me rule of thumb for a joke:
> 
> Do you think the people you are talking to consider themselves smarter, richer or older than yourself and they want to make a point about it? Use "usted"



I don't think you mean to use "rule of thumb" in this case... I would just say "Allow me room to throw in a joke"  Although what you are suggesting could be considered a "rule of thumb" it sounds like you're asking someone for "rule of thumb" which makes no sense.
You might already know this, but... for clarity's sake and for anyone who doesn't:
a rule of thumb is some sort of "norm" that is very often true, but not always the case.  For example, it's a rule of thumb in the world of architecture (in the US...) that a normal door in a public building is 3 feet wide, but this is NOT necessarily ALWAYS the case, therefore, it's a rule of thumb, or a trick of the trade.

Hope that helps


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## juanma

That was only for a joke. My pretended "rule of thumb" was only meant to be a joke. It wasn´t a REAL rule of thumb (I know what a rule of thumb is) so to me (I might be mistaken) the sentence makes all the sense (in British English, that is)


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## avalon2004

Just a random comment--> As it has already been said, _tú _is definitely used more than _usted_ in Spain. Whenever I have been around the country I have been spoken to with the _tú_ form (though I am only 16!) and most of the billboards seem to use it too. Also, I always address my Spanish teachers at school using 'tú' and it is perfectly accepted--I kind of get the feeling that _usted_ in Spain is only really used in extreme circumstances (e.g. in court or with people of a much greater social status than oneself). But then again, I'm not a native speaker- I'm just going on what I've heard!


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## Artrella

cristóbal said:
			
		

> See, that's what I was thinking... but for some reason I get the idea this is an "American" attitude, about putting her in an awkward situation... as there are a lot of things that just aren't done "that way" in the Hispanic world... there are a lot of things that we would never do, or would definitely think twice before doing, that they do naturally or see no problem in doing. (e.g. see the "que me cago en la..." thread)




Why do you think she would be in an awkward situation??? You want to address her by "tú", you are not proposing her something strange or with another kind of connotation.
You, English speakers, don't have that problem because you use "you" only.
But I think you are turning this subject into a moral problem.  We don't see this as an inmorality.  We see this as what it is, simply a way of addressing sb and *nothing else*.  You think a lot!!!  


Art


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## mjscott

Youse guys all think alot!
When threads start saying, "you" and "they," I look back to see what country someone is from and where they are at the time. It is interesting that both fellows in the conversation were Americans, one living in Spain, one living in Florida. Who assumes what all too soon? I'm not sure if it was the Americans, assuming that the lady would be offended, or if it was the Spaniards who naturally use tú, or if it was the Americans that are assuming the Spaniards aren't being offended by them using tú....
....you know what they say about whenever you "assume...."
--it makes an _ass_ out of _U_ and _me_ !

Pun intended--offense, not intended.


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## Artrella

mjscott said:
			
		

> Youse guys all think alot!
> When threads start saying, "you" and "they," I look back to see what country someone is from and where they are at the time. It is interesting that both fellows in the conversation were Americans, one living in Spain, one living in Florida. Who assumes what all too soon? I'm not sure if it was the Americans, assuming that the lady would be offended, or if it was the Spaniards who naturally use tú, or if it was the Americans that are assuming the Spaniards aren't being offended by them using tú....
> ....you know what they say about whenever you "assume...."
> --it makes an _ass_ out of _U_ and _me_ !
> 
> Pun intended--offense, not intended.





Ay! mj!  cannot understand, sorry! Besides I don't know if this is for me, if not, sorry to bother.  You don't need to answer then.

Art


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## mjscott

I was responding to Cristóbal responding to Edwin. (at 1:33 p.m. today).
Sorry if I accidentally bumped your nose metiendose la pata!


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## Edwin

Artrella said:
			
		

> Why do you think she would be in an awkward situation??? You want to address her by "tú", you are not proposing her something strange or with another kind of connotation.
> You, English speakers, don't have that problem because you use "you" only.
> But I think you are turning this subject into a moral problem.  We don't see this as an inmorality.  We see this as what it is, simply a way of addressing sb and *nothing else*.  You think a lot!!!



I am struggling to figure it out.  I guess some of us (me, for example) tend erroneously to confuse use of tu (by a man to a women especially) as a form of intimacy.  

Here's an incident from the program ''Destinos'' (a soap opera made for teaching Spanish to English speakers) that gave me this idea:

Raquel is a Mexican American lawyer living in Los Angles and traveling all over the Spanish speaking world. While in Puerto Rico Raquel meets Ángela, a young lady.  Raquel uses usted when speaking with Ángela. Then Ángela asks Raquel to please use tu with her. But later when Raquel is introduced to Ángela's fiancé (a young professor), she is offended when he uses tu when talking to her (perhaps also due to the tone of his voice. Actually he is flirting with her after Ángela left them together briefly.) This is the first clue that he is a mujeriego--which turns out to be the case.

If you don't know the story, earlier on a visit to Argentina Raquel has a romance with an Argentino. Eventually he uses vos with her and she uses tu with him.

I had a woman teacher from Argentina. She told me that when she moved to Venzuela and taught geography in a university there she was very startled when students used tu to her and called her by her first name. That was a number of years ago. She said that wouldn't have happened in Argentina.


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## cristóbal

Artrella said:
			
		

> Why do you think she would be in an awkward situation??? You want to address her by "tú", you are not proposing her something strange or with another kind of connotation.
> You, English speakers, don't have that problem because you use "you" only.
> But I think you are turning this subject into a moral problem.  We don't see this as an inmorality.  We see this as what it is, simply a way of addressing sb and *nothing else*.  You think a lot!!!
> 
> 
> Art



Which is the reason why I said what I said.


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## cristóbal

mjscott said:
			
		

> I was responding to Cristóbal responding to Edwin. (at 1:33 p.m. today).
> Sorry if I accidentally bumped your nose metiendose la pata!



haha, de acuerdo, mj... I understood it. 

Y'all come back now, ya hear?


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## cristóbal

juanma said:
			
		

> That was only for a joke. My pretended "rule of thumb" was only meant to be a joke. It wasn´t a REAL rule of thumb (I know what a rule of thumb is) so to me (I might be mistaken) the sentence makes all the sense (in British English, that is)



I think you misunderstood me, I was pretty sure you knew what a rule of thumb was, but I'm confused as to how that sentence makes sense (or "all the sense")... maybe a kind British person would explain this to me if that is the case?


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## alc112

hi Sharon
I tell ir in a simple way:
"TU" is used for example when you are with friends and known people in infromal relationships. you can use dirty words (but donn't use it with kids)
"USTED" is use for example to speak with very importan people, unknown people and in old people. It's to be more polite. And i think polite people are more accept than people who use dirty words and things like that. it's use in formal situations and relationship
i hope this can be understood for you
electronic kisses and greetings


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## Edwin

cristóbal said:
			
		

> Whereas in another class I have a profesora who is probably in her late twenties, and I have this burning desire to tutear her... I tend to use age difference as my key for using tú or usted.



Che!  Christóbal,  porque no tratas de tutearla y dinos lo que pasa.  --Si ella te da una palmada en la cara o no.


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## cristóbal

Edwin said:
			
		

> Che!  Christóbal,  porque no tratas de tutearla y dinos lo que pasa.  --Si ella te da una palmada en la cara o no.



Pues, hombre (o che, si te apetece  ), no me va a dar una bofetada... porque creo que se dirá a sí misma "mira este chaval americano, tan maleducado como el resto" o "pues, no le hagas caso, seguro que él no sabe que te estás ofendiendo"

Por lo tanto, y lo que me temo, es que no diga nada...  Pero bueno, vamos a ver.


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## Edwin

cristóbal said:
			
		

> Pues, hombre (o che, si te apetece  ), no me va a dar una bofetada... porque creo que se dirá a sí misma "mira este chaval americano, tan maleducado como el resto" o "pues, no le hagas caso, seguro que él no sabe que te estás ofendiendo"
> 
> Por lo tanto, y lo que me temo, es que no diga nada...  Pero bueno, vamos a ver.



Pues, ¡ buena suerte !


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## ufotofu9

Hi, this is an old thread but I have been interested in this topic lately. 

I have lived in Spain for many years, and what AVALON2004 said is correct. In Spain tú is almost always used, and usted is only used in extremely formal sitiations like in court, a debate between presidents or Members of Parliment, etc.

I know enough about the culture here, and I have worked here, and even in job interviews or when refering to your boss you use tú.

In fact, in my mind, using usted is often a way of talking down to somebody here. 

In Spain, when in doubt, use tú.


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## Holacomoesta

Maeron said:


> I think that when to use _tú_ or _usted_ is something I would have had to be born into the culture or enter into it as a child to understand. We who come from a language that doesn't distinguish between different levels of formality in the same systematized way can't hope to learn the rules, especially considering that the "rules" are different in different countries and social milieus.
> 
> I take my cue from other people. Unless the other person is a child or a teenager, (I'm the same age as you, Sharon, BTW), I start with _usted_, and don't switch to _tú_ unless the other person does so first. The only exception would be a person much older than me (a generation difference or more), whom I keep on calling _usted_ even when they call me _tú_. My parents-in-law and my husband's aunts and uncles, for example.
> 
> I figure that you could offend someone or give them the wrong idea by using _tú_, but _usted _will never offend. *We English-speakers may have the idea that usted, because it is more respectful, is more distant and cold and less intimate*, but it is not so, really. The idea that _tú_ in Spanish equates to first-name basis in our culture is only a rough, very rough approximation, and at a certain point in our penetration into Spanish-speaking cultures, we have to let go of that idea, because it is not entirely accurate.


 
Ugh, you hit the nail on the head. This is why when a customer comes into our store and they need someone who speaks Spanish (I would be the only person, by the way) I have always used "tu" immediately because I want to be friendly and make them feel welcomed and I have yet to have one person get offended or ask that I tutear. Hmm...is it possible that maybe Hispanohablantes in the United States have let go of the need to be addressed "usted" or have I gotten really, REALLY lucky? Thoughts?


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## Bandama

cristóbal said:


> Whereas in another class I have a profesora who is probably in her late twenties, and I have this burning desire to tutear her... I tend to use age difference as my key for using tú or usted.



Hi Cris ,

You can be 100% sure that the one and only context in which that young proffesor is addressed with "usted" in her life is that classroom (by some studends like you). In Spain, nobody uses "usted" with a 28 year-old woman outside that very especific context in which a person takes an administrative role, and even in this case, the tendency is to se "tú" unless the contex is VERY administrative (such as someone working in a ministry). So she must be most amused to hear those two or three students use "usted" with her (I, being _significantly_  older than her, am never addressed with "usted", simply because the roles I perform in life are far from being _administrative_).

However, If your intentions are _dishonest_ , I would definitively keep that "usted" (while being at the same time informal in manner, warm, helpful and attentive). She will think of you as some kind of old-fashion gentleman, and this will clearly puzzle her and arise her interest. This is something you can only try and afford, of course, if you are a foreigner and a young-looking man. Otherwise (If you are a Spaniard or look a bit out of fashion), she will only thing that you are a young-fogey.

I hope that what I've said, besides the funny part, has been of linguistic interest to you and to other people wondering how "tú" and "usted" are used in Spain (this doesn't necessarily apply to other countries) among people under 45 at least.


As for *Sharon's* doubt, given the fact that you want to avoid any kind of misunderstanding, I would definitely use "usted". This will create a respectful atmosfere between you and him that will probably prevent him from taking undesired steps.


*What I in fact have intended to say* with these two pieces of advice (which seem to have been given by a one of those love doctors from the fifties) *is that our relationship with language changes if the person we're talking to is a foreigner*. In this case, we tend to consider as gentle or "cute" what we might think as innappropriate in other circumstances. It is obvious that most native Spanish speakers would use "tú" with a colleague at work and even more a with 28 year-old woman (especially if you're approximately the same age) , but being a non-native speaker can give you the advantage of not falling into pre-established categories .

Saludos.


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## Eltraductor

Just to add to this discussion:

* In terms of reading a book when the author uses the imperative, which is more commonly used in Spanish novels? Tú or usted?

I would appreciate any help in terms of further understanding the imperative.


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