# FR: on, nous, vous / one, you - sens impersonnel



## ilvadesoi

This failure dominates your life. It's always in the back of your mind, slowly *tearing you apart*, ready to pounce when you're most vulnerable and *break you.*

My attempt:

Cet échec domine sa vie. C'est toujours dans le dos de son esprit, *vous en se déchirant lentement*, prêt à bondir quand on est les plus vulnérables et *vous briser.*

My problem:

To translate 'you' into French, in this context, I've been using 'on', and therefore 'sa' and 'son' to mean 'your'.. but if I wanted to say "slowly tearing you apart" or "break you" would I use the word 'vous' or is it 'on'?


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## Oddmania

Hi,

You can't use _son/sa/ses_ with _on_. Use the first person plural 

_*On *a fait *nos *devoirs_ (here, _on _means _we _so it's logical).
_Le matin, *on *se lève et *on *se demande ce qui *nous *attend _(here, it's impersonal).

Anyway, I suggest you use _vous _ Regarding the bold part, it seems like there's a problem with _tearing you apart_. _En _and _se_ are unnecessary. 

_Se_ is only use with pronominal verbs. With these verbs, the subject does the action to themselves, so you can't use an object, such as _vous_, with it.

_Il se déchire_ would be _He is tearing himself apart.

..., vous déchirant lentement,... 
_


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## ilvadesoi

You can't?! My teacher's been lying to me. D: man that's annoying..

"vous déchire lentement" ?

Edit: sorry Mr Oakley, you most certainly haven't been lying to me, just a misunderstanding!


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## Oddmania

Note that we still say _On *se *demande (we wonder)_, using the third-person singular, and not _On nous demande_ (that would mean _We're being asked_).

I'd go with _..., ça vous déchire lentement,..._


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## ilvadesoi

Cet échec domine votre vie. C'est toujours dans le dos de votre esprit, vous déchirant lentement, prêt à bondir quand on est les plus vulnérables et vous briser.

?

Also, I was told to use 'son' or 'sa' with 'on', to mean 'one's', is that completely wrong?


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## Oddmania

No, actually, it's correct, it seems I mixed up a few things... 

You can say _*On* fait *nos *devoirs_ if _on _means _we_, but you can of course say _On fait *ses *devoirs_ (_On vit *sa *vie, puis on meurt, etc..._ ) if it's impersonnal.

But in your case, you can't say _Cet échec domine sa vie_. This would mean _its life_ (_the life of the failure_).

It's tricky, maybe someone will come up with a rule, sorry about that!


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## ilvadesoi

Yeah, I've been using 'on' as 'one', which is generally translated as 'you' in English as it makes it sound less formal:

This failure dominates *one's* life --> this failure dominates *your* life.
So I just keep using 'sa' and 'son' throughout, but use 'vous' in cases such as 'vous briser'? You can't say 'on briser' can you?


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## lamy08

_Cet échec envahit votre vie. Ça vous poursuit, ça vous ronge lentement, et c'est prêt à se jeter sur vous au moment où vous êtes le plus vulnérable et à vous casser._


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## ilvadesoi

If I've been using 'sa', 'son' and 'ses' throughout to mean "one's" would I still use 'votre' here, or rather 'son'?

Cet échec envahit *votre* vie. Ça vous poursuit, ça vous ronge lentement, et c'est prêt à se jeter sur vous au moment où vous êtes le plus vulnérable et à vous casser.

Thank you very much by the way.


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## Maître Capello

Since in French there is no personal or possessive pronoun corresponding to the impersonal _on_ (except _se/soi_ in some cases), we usually use either _nous/notre_ or _vous/votre_ along with _on_:

_Cet échec envahit *notre/votre* vie. Ça *nous/vous* poursuit, ça *nous/vous* ronge  lentement, et c'est prêt à se jeter sur *soi/nous/vous* au moment où *on/nous/vous* est/sommes/êtes le  plus vulnérable(s) et à *nous/vous *casser._

That being said, since _vous_ can have the same impersonal meaning in French as in English and since using _on_ leads to some limitations (grammatically speaking), I'd definitely go with _vous/votre_ in all places, both to be consistent and to more accurately translate the English.

_Cet échec envahit *votre* vie. Ça *vous* poursuit, ça *vous* ronge  lentement, et c'est prêt à se jeter sur *vous* au moment où *vous* êtes le  plus vulnérable et à *vous *casser._


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## ilvadesoi

Well, the English was written by me, but I get your point - changing 'on' to 'vous' would make things easier, as well as make it look a bit better because a mix between 'on' and 'vous' probably looks inconsistant and badly written.. as long as 'vous' gets the point across that I'm referring to people in general, then that's fantastic, merci beaucoup pour votre aide. :]


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## zappo

In the French translation of the following utterance, how can the "you" - "you" - "you" - "your" be expressed as impersonals?

"Everyone knows that when someone gives you something, you should say 'thank you': that way, you fulfill your obligation."


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## carocome

Le "you" peut être remplacé ici chaque fois par "vous" :

"Chacun sait que quand quelqu'un vous donne quelque chose, vous devez dire "merci" : ainsi vous remplissez vos obligations".


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## iz92

Bonjour, est-ce que c'est plus formel de traduire "you" comme "vous", au lieu de "on" ?
Les deux sont-ils utilisés dans le langage soutenu ?

Merci


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## Graine de Moutarde

Hello all!

  I'm also having a bit of trouble using impersonal you's. So, "on" works for subjects and "soi" works for indirect objects, but you can't use "sa/son/ses" for the possessive pronouns? Also, how do you determine whether to use "vous" or "nous"?

For example, I'm trying to translate "you do your best but where does that get you? In the end, nobody cares" where a person is lamenting having tried their best to fit into a click but was still ostracized by their so-called friends.

So, if I've understood the above posts correctly, I can't say "on fait de *son* mieux"? I have to say "on fait de *votre/notre* mieux" and would I say "mais ça *vous* or *nous* amène où?" But should it be *nous* or *vous*? *notre* or *votre*?

Any explanation would be helpful. 

Thank you!

~~~Graine de Moutarde


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## Maître Capello

Graine de Moutarde said:


> So, "on" works for subjects and "soi" works for indirect objects, but you can't use "sa/son/ses" for the possessive pronouns?


No, 3rd-person possessives are fine, e.g.:

_Quand *on* risque *sa* vie, *on* pense à *ses* enfants_. ​
See also FR: on + notre, nos / son, sa, ses.



Graine de Moutarde said:


> Also, how do you determine whether to use "vous" or "nous"?


The choice between _on_, _nous_ and _vous_ depends on context. It is often a matter of style. The 1st person includes the speaker whereas the 2nd person doesn't. The 2nd person is therefore typically more “impersonal” than the 1st. It is equivalent to the impersonal _you_ in English.



Graine de Moutarde said:


> I'm trying to translate "you do your best but where does that get you? […]"


If the sentence were just _You do your best_, you would have the choice between the following:

_*On* fait de *son* mieux._​_*Nous* faisons de *notre* mieux._​_*Vous* faites de *votre* mieux._​
However, to translate the full sentence, _on_ should be avoided as you would have to use _nous_ as direct object. There is indeed no direct object equivalent to _on_ in French; we typically use _nous_ instead.

_*On* fait de *son* mieux, mais où cela *nous* mène-t-il ?_ () (a bit clumsy because of the _on/nous_ mix)​_*Nous* faisons de *notre* mieux, mais où cela *nous* mène-t-il ?_ ​_*Vous* faites de *votre* mieux, mais où cela *vous* mène-t-il ?_ ​


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## Graine de Moutarde

Thank you so much, Maître Capello! In that case, I think I'll go with your third suggestion and use "vous" all around.


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