# fed up with/of (?)



## Arrius

All my life I have said *fed up with,* and considered *fed up of* a mistake which I attempted (in vain) to correct in my children when they were little. Possibly, the idiom with_ of_ is, or was originally, an americanism or has come from the English Midlands like _different to_ which seems to have ousted my _different from,_ and is now in its turn also encroached on, even on the BBC, by the American _different than._ These days, however, I hear _fed up of_ all the time and cannot remember the last time I heard_ fed up with_.
Admittedly,_ I_ _am fed up with_ as a colloquialism for _I am tired of (something)_ is, as such, more liable to change than a more formal phrase, but *I wonder what other foreros think about this usage*: is it a matter of age which one uses, or is my version now virtually extinct.
PS If the _of-_version is a mistake, googling a majority of hits in which it appears may only indicate that it is a very common mistake. Of course, I realise, and have said before, that in English possibly more than any other language, today's mistakes are often almost literally tomorrow's standard usage. Unfortunately so, in my view.


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## Lexiphile

Hi Arrius,
This sounds to me like another case of muddled thinking creaping into the language and becoming accepted.  As it happens, I have never heard anyone say "fed up of," but then I don't live in an English-speaking country and I don't watch English or American television.
I could, however, give you a long, long list of other usages -- also indicative of muddled thinking -- that have crept in over the years.  There is, unfortunately, no point in resisting them.  This thing is bigger than both of us, if you'll pardon the melodrama.  
A causual perusal of the OED will convince you that, sooner or later, either the "bad" usage will be dropped or the words will subtly change in meaning, so that the usage makes sense after all.


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## joyeuse

Hi Arrius,

An AE speaker here...I've never heard "fed up of!"  I've always used "fed up with," like you.  I would have considered it a mistake, but I also agree that the English language seems to be evolving rapidly, and what were once considered "mistakes" are now accepted as common usage.  

At first I was disappointed at this development as well, but then it was pointed out to me that language is a living thing, it evolves and changes as all living things do. I guess we could say that language does not exist without the people who use it.  This makes good sense to me, although I still may prefer to say "fed up with" for the rest of my days!  

Have a great day,

joyeuse


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## Thomas Tompion

I am sympathetic, Arrius, and, like Lexiphile, have never heard the deviant of version, but, like him too, I no longer live in the UK.

If it's any comfort fed up with gets 2,060,000 hits, to 815,000 for of, but 815,000 is an alarming total.

I wonder if the Americans will confirm your hunch, or disown the phrase.


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## Meridon

I say fed up *with.* I think fed up *of* is bad grammar- but becoming increasingly frequent - as others have noted. 

( likewise one of my pet hates- 'was sat' instead of 'was sitting' or 'sat'!!)


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## Trisia

This Romglish speaker likes "fed up _with_" too. I've never heard "fed up of" either.
If I did, I would probably think the speaker is confusing "fed up with" with "tired/sick of."

But then again, non-native speakers do tend to hold on to textbooks and "rules" a bit more than you do (I would do it too, except I've forgotten most of what they taught us in high-school).


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## Arrius

I think you will notice it now I've pointed it out*, **T T*, that is if you listen to the BBC or converse with youngish Brits. The deviant usage does not seem to depend on education or social class.
My apologies to the two American foreros for thinking it might an americanism, though I have never heard an American use it. It is far more likely to be a mistake that has occurred by analogy with the synonym_ to_ _be tired of,_ and sloppily perpetuated, despite the other synonymous idioms _browned of with_ and _cheesed off with _which I have not yet heard used with *of.* Some people who really know better seem to copy these variants deliberately to sound modern and "with it". As for it being useless to resist these rapid changes, I think that we can at least try to set a good example whether in AE or BE including here on the forums. Ideally, a language should remain intelligible for a long period of time as well throughout the geographical area it covers, especially when it bids fair to become _the _universal language like English. My watchword shall remain, within reason, "no pasarán!" (they shall not pass), however futile that may be.


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## floise

Arrius,

Like Joyeuse, I've never heard 'I'm fed up of'. 

I once heard an explanation for language evolution: that language tends to move towards the more easily spoken form; the rationale behind the overuse of the simple past where the present perfect would be correct. Maybe saving two letters ('of' instead of 'with') is one reason for the preference for 'fed up of'. But your explanation sounds good: its similarity to the synonymous 'tired of'. 

Floise


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## Lexiphile

Yes, Arrius, there was a time when the BBC could be counted upon to support your point of view -- the announcers spoke RP (nor Arpee, as in the Book of Dave!) and it was a standard to which educated people adhered.
Then, no too long ago, a conscious decision was apparently taken to make the BBC more "inclusive," which meant introducing regional accents, even into the national news broadcasts.  The result is that there is no longer a widely heard standard, and everyone speaks as he wishes (influenced of course by American television, but we can't lay all the blame there).  
The mere existence of this forum is a powerful influence toward maintaining a certain standard, but history shows that the effect can only be to slow the "deterioration." 
The fact that English covers a wide geographical area only makes the problem more difficult, since each region develops its own version.  That, really, is how dialects and creoles develop, and I suspect that English would not be the rich language it has become if that were not the case.


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## Arrius

Agreed, *Lexiphile*, the Tower of Babel Effect occurs also without divine intervention especially over a wide area, but when Arabs do business with Japanese in English both are careful to be well understood, so that the prospect of such international encounters which will become increasingly frequent, may be one of the main factors in holding the language together. 
The introduction of regional accents on the BBC is most welcome, as long as they are intelligible to the majority at least of British people, but you don't really get dialects except for the occasional 'phone-in speaker, whom sometimes even I don't entirely understand.


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## Robert_Hope

Hi all

Since birth, I have always heard and used the preposition "of" with the expression "fed up XX" + noun.

Recently, as I'm actually teaching English abroad, I've discovered that the "correct" prep. is in fact "with".

Does anyone know where if "of" is coll. or just wrong or....? I grew up in the North West Midlands....

Any suggestions welcome, I'm curious!

Bob


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## nzfauna

I've only ever used and heard "with".


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## maria_bach

I agree with nzfauna. I 've never heard the verb with "of" preposition.


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## Blootix

"Fed up with" is the correct term in AmE.


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## jamesjiao

nzfauna said:


> I've only ever used and heard "with".



I ditto nzfauna.


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## Robert_Hope

Ok, I quick google search has shown me that there are others that use "of", although a lot of them have .co.uk web addresses. Despite this, "fed up with" is still listed as the only way it's said in my dictionary (despite it having lot's of other "frowned upon" uses of words listed and discussed.)

Even a newspaper from the UK used it in the title (although not The Times or the Telegraph)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482164&in_page_id=1770


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## panjandrum

Fed up of is a common "alternative" expression - see fed up with/tired of.

Today's thread has just been added to a previous thread on the same topic.


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## Loob

Hi Bob

I nearly always use "with", but I think I do substitute "of" occasionally, especially with a gerund: _fed up of X-ing. _

I'm sure "with" is the best form to teach, but you could always explain that students might hear/see "of" - just so they don't get worried when they read the Daily Mail


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## Arrius

These days I seldom hear English spoken except on the BBC and BFBS (British Forces Broadcasting Service) from nearby Gibraltar, and since I posted this thread I have heard only "fed up of".
My children, now grown-up and living elsewhere, also use only this form, despite, or possibly because of, past attempts on my part to point out the disparity.


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## LV4-26

It's been said that the deviant  form with 'of' could come from _tired/sick of._
I wonder whether it could (also) come from "_have enough of"_, which is at least as common as the other two and closer in meaning (metaphorical *and* literal).


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## Loob

Having now read the earlier part of the merged thread, I have to say that I don't think "fed up of" is particularly 'modern' (_post 7_) or that it's 'creeping into the language' (_post 2_).

Here's an Australian major using it in 1917



_So my occasional use is "deviant", eh?  I'm thrilled!_


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## cuchuflete

Thomas Tompion said:


> I am sympathetic, Arrius, and, like Lexiphile, have never heard the deviant of version, but, like him too, I no longer live in the UK.
> 
> If it's any comfort fed up with gets 2,060,000 hits, to 815,000 for of, but 815,000 is an alarming total.
> 
> I wonder if the Americans will confirm your hunch, or disown the phrase.



It is not an Americanism.  I've never heard it or seen it before reading the first post in this thread.


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## Lora44

Robert_Hope said:


> Hi all
> 
> Since birth, I have always heard and used the preposition "of" with the expression "fed up XX" + noun.
> 
> Recently, as I'm actually teaching English abroad, I've discovered that the "correct" prep. is in fact "with".
> 
> Does anyone know where if "of" is coll. or just wrong or....? I grew up in the North West Midlands....
> 
> Any suggestions welcome, I'm curious!
> 
> Bob


 
I'm a fellow Midlander and a fellow user of 'fed up of'.

I've always, to my knowledge, been aware of both 'of' and 'with' but generally use 'of'.

It's strange how you learn something and it seems right, it's only on reading this thread that it has struck me that something I've said for nearly 20 years might be incorrect. Weird.


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## Wobby

I'm another Midlander that has heard of both, and would agree with *Loob* about being more inclined to use it with the gerund. That said, I can't remember the last time I personally ever said 'I'm fed up...' at all!


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## GreenWhiteBlue

I have never heard "fed up of" said by any speaker of AmE (indeed, I was unaware that anyone said it anywhere until today), and I would think it bizarre if anyone did use it. I hope this one doesn't cross the pond.


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## Elwintee

LV4-26 said:


> It's been said that the deviant  form with 'of' could come from _tired/sick of._
> I wonder whether it could (also) come from "_have enough of"_, which is at least as common as the other two and closer in meaning (metaphorical *and* literal).



I belong to the '*with*' party.  It seems logical to me, in that I think of '_fed up_' as meaning '_satiated_', and we feed/stuff someone, or get fed, *with* bananas, not *of* them.  Does anyone else see it this way?


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## thieuma

You may appreciate to know that in France, only the "fed up with" form is taught !


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## Loob

Lora44 said:


> it's only on reading this thread that it has struck me that something I've said for nearly 20 years might be incorrect. Weird.


Actually, I'd say that's rather the point. It *isn't* incorrect for you or Robert_Hope or Arrius' children... or, come to that, for me. 


Robert_Hope said:


> I’m wondering now if “fed up of” has made it out of the Midlands (UK)


Well, I'm not a Midlander. And - see post 21 - it had clearly made it to Australia by 1917


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## cuchuflete

Elwintee said:


> I belong to the '*with*' party.  It seems logical to me, in that I think of '_fed up_' as meaning '_satiated_', and we feed/stuff someone, or get fed, *with* bananas, not *of* them.  Does anyone else see it this way?



That sounds plausible.  So does "fed up *to* the gills", or this from Online Etymology Dictionary:

Fed up "surfeited, disgusted, bored," is British slang first recorded 1900, extended to U.S. by World War I; probably from earlier phrases like fed up to the back teeth.
​Fed up to the xxxxxx  seems to call for _with_, but regional habits often give language special flavor.


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## panjandrum

The British National Corpus includes one example of fed up of.





> Praps they were just getting a little *fed * *up * *of * Wilko selling players for nothing when he decided he did nt want them any more?


Leeds United Football e-mail, 11 November 1993.

There are 4 examples of *fed up with*.


The Time American Corpus includes one example of fed up of:
Gangling Sophomore Richard Ingledue, 15, son of a truck driver, picked up his pencil, frowned a bit and began.





> " This book, " he wrote, " does not have a title but is a story of a boy who was *fed* *up* *of* living. His name? That doesn't matter. It's what he will do that will shock you.


Time 27 January 1958
There are 592 examples of *fed up with*.


How very curious!
Clearly being fed up is much more prevalent in the US than the UK


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## brian

Elwintee said:


> I belong to the '*with*' party.  It seems logical to me, in that I think of '_fed up_' as meaning '_satiated_', and we feed/stuff someone, or get fed, *with* bananas, not *of* them.  Does anyone else see it this way?





cuchuflete said:


> That sounds plausible.  So does "fed up *to* the gills"...
> 
> Fed up to the xxxxxx  seems to call for _with_, but regional habits often give language special flavor.



I'm not so sure. I belong to the "with party" only insofar as that's what I've always said and heard.

But as far as logic, plausibility, grammar, etc. etc. goes, while indeed sometimes there is a little method to the madness, quite often things are just random and senseless in language, including preposition choice. And using parallelisms and comparing structures (like saying that "fed up" is like "satiated") can only get you so far. Compare "full" and "filled" (which are very similar in meaning):

One can be _full *of* something_, yet _filled *with* something_.

The only reason why "fed up *with*" sounds more "correct" to me is that that's what I'm used to. Grammar doesn't really enter the picture for me.


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## Scieur

"Fed up of" makes me feel a bit queasy. I would only expect to hear it come out of a native English speaker's mouth if he or she spoke a dialect that I had never heard before.


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## Arrius

Surely, fed up _*to* the gills/ *to *the back teeth_ indicates the *extent* *to which* one is fed up, whereas in _I am fed up (also annoyed, exasperated, furious) *with* your bad behaviour,distasteful jokes, lack of cooperation_, the *with* =  _when I am confronted with/in view of ..your bad behaviour etc._  I don't think we'll get far by stressing the literal idea of feeding someone. Nobody thinks of nourishment when they say "fed up" in this figurative way.  Compare _I'm happy *with *my new car, I'm delighted *with *my exam results._


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## Elwintee

Arrius said:


> Surely, fed up _*to* the gills/ *to *the back teeth_ indicates the *extent* *to which* one is fed up, whereas in _I am fed up (also annoyed, exasperated, furious) *with* your bad behaviour,distasteful jokes, lack of cooperation_, the *with* =  _when I am confronted with/in view of ..your bad behaviour etc._  I don't think we'll get far by stressing the literal idea of feeding someone. Nobody thinks of nourishment when they say "fed up" in this figurative way.  Compare _I'm happy *with *my new car, I'm delighted *with *my exam results._



*Nobody thinks of nourishment when they say "fed up" in this figurative way.  

*That is a bit of an exaggeration, Arrius.  As I said in my earlier post, this body does.  And surely the idea of over-feeding lies at the root of the phrase? However I agree that it is more usual to use the words unheedingly for their current meaning.  Perhaps pirates exclaimed "shiver me timbers!" without thinking what exactly that phrase means, but it doesn't detract from its interesting original meaning.


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## Robert_Hope

Scieur said:


> "Fed up of" makes me feel a bit queasy. I would only expect to hear it come out of a native English speaker's mouth if he or she spoke a dialect that I had never heard before.


 
Do you have a strange fear _with_ the preposition that makes you feel ill?

The idea that people can be so affected by language strikes me as really odd. There are loads of different varieties of English, some of which I admit are difficult for me to understand, but words never make me feel ill. Everytime I hear "Did I do good?" I think it odd, but accept that language is an ever changing thing. Some languages don't have adverbs, for example. Maybe one time they did.

It's really interesting that it's, so far, only been noted in the Midlands in the UK (If I've read everything correctly). Even more interesting for me, as I'm from the north-west of the Midlands and speak with no noticeable accent or dialect (i.e. I'm not a Brummy or from the Black Country). Wasn't East Midlands English "standard" when printing of things in English began? 

Anybody from the South (UK) used or heard "fed up of"

The "to be fed with food" was a good idea..... very logical


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## Loob

If you google, you'll find examples from Teesside, Slough, Cornwall...

And I keep mentioning Australia


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## Robert_Hope

Loob said:


> If you google, you'll find examples from Teesside, Slough, Cornwall...
> 
> And I keep mentioning Australia


 

Ooops, Yes. I've re-read everything and I can see Australia mentioned! Thanks! It's fantastic that it's not just Midlanders being *of* a weird upbringing. ;-)


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## KHS

I checked the BYU (Brigham Young University) Corpus of American English (360+ million words). There were 955 instances of _fed up with_ and 7 instances of _fed up of_
That seems about the right distribution to me.

Info on the BYU Corpus: 
http://www.americancorpus.org/

*The BYU Corpus of American English* is the first large corpus of American English, and it is freely available online. It contains more than *360 million words* of text, including *20 million words each year from 1990-2007*, and it is equally divided among spoken, fiction, popular magazines, newspapers, and academic texts. The corpus will also be *updated* at least twice *each year* from this point on, and will therefore serve as a unique record of linguistic changes in American English.


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## ribran

I believe I have heard "fed up of" a few times.


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## Nutta100

I agree entirely. I looked up "fed up WITH/fed up OF because I'm fed up with people using "of" so annoyingly. I ended up here and now I'm armed with an official statement that OF is wrong. 
Unfortunately, I fear that you're right when you say that today's mistakes are tomorrows standard usage. I'm going to beat my had against a wall until I'm fed up with it or should I say fed up OF it for the benefit of people who's only job in life is to talk to us on television and can't seem to get things right!
Grrrrrrrrrrr


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## woodstock1708

I agree - I'm from the U.S. (living in Ireland now) and I'd never heard of "fed up of" until coming across it in Spotlight on CAE chapter 6 (Heinle). My entire life (38 years) I've heard "fed up with" and nothing else.

At first I thought it was a printing error, but upon seeing it in other parts of the unit, I thought I'd check it out on this forum. I guess I'll just roll with it, but it seems odd to me. 



Lexiphile said:


> Hi Arrius,
> This sounds to me like another case of muddled thinking creaping into the language and becoming accepted.  As it happens, I have never heard anyone say "fed up of," but then I don't live in an English-speaking country and I don't watch English or American television.
> I could, however, give you a long, long list of other usages -- also indicative of muddled thinking -- that have crept in over the years.  There is, unfortunately, no point in resisting them.  This thing is bigger than both of us, if you'll pardon the melodrama.
> A causual perusal of the OED will convince you that, sooner or later, either the "bad" usage will be dropped or the words will subtly change in meaning, so that the usage makes sense after all.


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## TeacherC

British English (Northern English) native speaker and English teacher here. In my 30+ years on this planet, I'd say I've heard "fed up with" and "fed up of" in about *equal measure* (as much as I can recall). Moreover, I've perhaps used both in somewhat equal measure too. However, we should look at the technical/grammatical side, not just anecdotal...

We know that "fed up with/of" is of course a *Type 4 phrasal verb*. Now, phrasal verbs are sometimes, but not always, based on grammatical meaning. For example, with the *Type 2 phrasal verbs* "do up" (up = make better) and "tear down" (down = make worse), we see a clear meaning-based construction - up is positive, down is negative. However, now let's compare "fed up with/of" and "sick of" (or "tired of" / "bored of"), which have the same meaning, namely that someone is no longer satisfied (fed up, sick, tired, bored) in connection (of/with) a person/place/thing. Why would *with* be 'correct' and *of* 'incorrect'? _Is it a grammatical mistake regarding the particle, or is it just that we haven't heard it before, therefore we feel it must be wrong?_ The verb parts (sick / fed up), essentially have the same meaning, so why is 'sick of' OK, yet 'fed up of' is not? Rather than having a strong meaning-based construction as with up/down, here it is perhaps more about *which collocation has persisted over time*. Having said that, while it can be argued that 'with' carries a stronger meaning of 'affected by' than 'of', if anything this serves only to *strengthen* the argument that if 'sick of' and 'bored of' are OK, then 'fed up of' should. We should now also point out that these phrasal verbs are in an *adjectival form* (or *passive voice*, if looked at in a different way) - ie. adjectives sick/bored/fed-up - and as such must in fact appear with 'be', 'become', or even 'get': _*be/get* sick of, *be/get* bored of, *be/get* fed up_.

Anyway, let's not fall into the trap of setting AmE or BrE against each other, nor assuming a position of having the 'right' English. It looks or sounds like in AmE 'fed up with' is used, and in BrE the _alternative_, as it were, 'fed up of' is *also used*, in varying frequency; however, the latter is apparently commonly acknowledged to be more informal, perhaps used more in speech than writing.


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## Bandediron

I see that the Telegraph is now reporting that "Prince George is fed up of going to school".  I have travelled the world, am in my 60s, and this was my first experience of this "fed up of".  Must have led a sheltered life!  I actually Googled it, and came to this website.  I don't know whether this particular example is ascribable to the child, a parent, or the reporter.  Certainly not the editor - such creatures have gone the way of the dinosaur.  As has been pointed out, language is dynamic, but there is no need to follow the general trend.  One particular, which sends me almost apoplectic is the use of "my husband/partner/whoever and I", whether the subject or the object, and this is used by the general public, newsreaders, presenters, in films, on television, almost to the complete exclusion of "my husband/partner/whoever and me".  It might be in general use, but never by me.


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