# About description of a town in geographical dictionary



## Arpin

Hello everyone, I would like you to help me translate a small text in Latin. If it is possible to translate it into Spanish I would appreciate it even more but if it is in another language I do not care.
The original text is in print, about 1650, and as usual the letter S is similar to the letter F, so I put the possible word in parentheses.
Thank you very much in advance.


"Id. Maji quinque milliarium viâ admodum amoenâ per Miajadas municipium haud vile ad ventam feu (seu) diverforium (diversorium) ducebantur. In viâ viginti magnae pecudes erant. Oves Madrito huc aguntur, & pro fingulis (singulis) duo reales folvuntur (solvuntur)."


----------



## jazyk

Sería más o menos esto:

El quince de mayo cinco inmuebles bastante amenos fueron puestos a la venta o convertidos en alojamiento en el municipio de Miajadas por un precio nada malo. Había veinte bestias grandes en la calle. Las ovejas son traídas aquí a Madrid y por cada una se pagan dos reales.

Me parece que usaron el término amovia para referirse a un inmueble, con el prefijo a que indica negación, o sea, aquello que no se mueve.


----------



## Arpin

Muchísimas gracias, jazyk. Al poner la nota sobre amovia, me he dado cuenta que estaba mal. He corregido el texto y donde ponía amovia es milliarium viâ. Supongo que esto cambia la traducción, Muchas gracias de antemano.


----------



## jazyk

Ahora no lo entiendo. Si fuera quinque milliaria, en plural, o sea, cinco mijeros, lo entendería.

Does anybody understand the first sentence of the Latin text?


----------



## Arpin

jazyk said:


> Ahora no lo entiendo. Si fuera quinque milliaria, en plural, o sea, cinco mijeros, lo entendería.
> 
> Does anybody understand the first sentence of the Latin text?


 The original text is in this link
Hispaniae et lusitaniae itinerarium...


----------



## magosil79

Ok, here's the whole trascription, if anybody wants to tackle it:

Id. Maji quinque milliarium viâ admodum amoenâ per Miajadas municipium haud vile ad ventam seu diversorium ducebantur.
In via viginti magnae pecudes erant.
Oves Madrito huc aguntur, & pro singulis duo reales solvuntur.

First I tackle lines two and three because they seem easier:

_In via      viginti magnae pecudes erant_
On the road    twenty    large            flocks          there were:   
On the road there were twenty large flocks. (I say 'flocks' because _oves _is mentioned in the following sentence).

Oves       Madrito     huc                aguntur,    &    pro singulis     duo reales         solvuntur.
The sheep      from Madrid      to this place (here)   are led              and    for    each of them    two    reals (currency)   are paid
The sheep are led here from Madrid and for each one of them two reals are paid. 

I find the first line hard to understand. I will try to give as much information as I can, but there are a few things that I find difficult: 

Id. Maji quinque milliarium viâ           admodum amoenâ per     Miajadas municipium haud vile 
 along a road     very                delightful     through  Miajadas        a town                not        worthless
 
ad ventam seu diversorium ducebantur.
to    a market       or   to an inn              are led   

...they were led along a very delightful road through Miajadas, a town not worthless, to a market or to an inn.

I think that _venta_ is a word of medieval Latin. _Venta _and _diversorium _are separated by _seu. _It gives an alternative for something similar, a building or a place. I have found _venta_ here Logeion meaning 'locus, ubi merces venum exponuntur' hence my translation as 'market'. 
As for _milliarium _it could mean a 'milestone', a stone placed on the road every miles to mark the distance. It could mean that that day the writer  had travelled five miles, but on this point I am not sure. I await for somebody more knowledgeable. Moreover I don't understand who is the subject of _ducebantur_, the travellers?

I hope this helps.


----------



## Arpin

Thank you very much, magosil79. "Venta" is a Spanish word from centuries ago and is the place or building where travelers or transporters rested or stopped. It would be like a current hostel or hotel. In the "ventas" the traveller could sleep, eat, drink, take care of the horses, etc.
"Diversorium" in Spanish would be "taberna" (inn in English) that is similar to "venta" with the difference that in the "taberna" or inn you can not sleep or cater to horses.
About "milliarium" in Spanish there is a similar word "miliario" and it is a stone that was placed on the roads to know the distances. It would be a "milestone" in English. Formerly distances were measured in times, so one "legua" was the road or distance that is traveled in 1 hour. Taking into account that the previous population in the text ("Campo") it is possible that it refers to 5 "leguas" away. The distance between Miajadas and Campo is surely 5 "leguas".

I have seen that "haud vile" I see it translated in other places like "no cheap" or "expensive"

Thanks.


----------



## Arpin

This is my composition or translation, could you help me or correct it?

Five leagues(hours) along a pleasant road we were directed to a lodging house(hostel) or expensive tavern/inn in Miajadas. On the way there was a flock of 20 sheep that were brought from Madrid and that were paid at 2 reales for each one.
In Spanish:
A 5 leguas(horas) por un camino agradable fuimos dirigidos a una venta o taberna cara en Miajadas. Por el camino iba un rebaño de 20 ovejas que eran traídas de Madrid y que se pagaban a 2 reales por cada una.
Thanks a lot of.


----------



## magosil79

Well I tried my best, but there might be mistakes in my translation. I just want to point out a couple of things:
- _vile _is neuter, so I thought it refered to _municipium, _that is why I translated it as _a town not worthless_. You could say _una non vil ciudad_, if that makes any sense.
- _viginti pecudes. _I thought it meant 20 flocks, but ok it could also mean 20 animals. But why does it call it _magnae: _were they big sheep(s) or big flocks? 'habian veinte ovejas grandes' or 'habian veinte grandes rebaños'?


----------



## Arpin

It's hard to interpret for me too and I greatly appreciate your effort. 
I think that 20 flocks are many flocks considering that each flock contained thousands of sheep. Although it is possible because in Spain at that time was practiced the "trashumancia", which were migratory movements of cattle from the north to the south in the winter season.
On the other hand I think that a flock of only 20 sheep is something ridiculous or despicable and that it would not be worth commenting on. It is possible that there were 20 herds.
About "haud vile"is the problem of the denial of the denial of something. I think "haud" is "no" and "vile" is "cheap" in English or "barato" in Spanish.
"No cheap" is "expensive", isn't?
On the other hand, I do not know if "haud vile" is qualifying to "municipium" or "ventam". By logic I think that "haud vile" qualifies "ventam" or "diversorium".
Forgive me but I have no idea of Latin. Thanks.


----------



## Scholiast

Greetings

In the hopes of being able to shed a little light, here are my 5 cents' worth:

'On the Ides of May [the 15th, that is], they were brought by a pleasant enough route of 5 hours through the not negligible town of Miajadas, and settled in a hostel or wayside tavern. On the road there were twenty large cattle. Sheep are herded here en route for Madrid, and they are then traded for two reals per head.'

_vile_ can indeed mean 'cheap', but in a moral sense as well as a financial.

Σ


----------



## Arpin

Thanks Scholiast.


----------

