# Msza/Mass - problem z "a", "the", kiedy jest a kiedy nie ma?



## Strzykafka

Witajcie,

Nie rozumiem jak zasada a/an/the przed rzeczownikami ma sie do slowa "Mass", w znaczneniu "Msza". To jest rzeczownik, wiec czemu sie nie uzywa a/the w wiekszosci przypadkow? Uzywa sie np. w zdaniu "The Mass for the Wedding", ale juz nie "I was at Mass", albo "let's meet after Mass". Jezeli rozmawiaja dwie osoby i kazda z nich wie o jakiej mszy jest mowa, w jakim kosciele to bedzie, dlaczego bedzie zdanie "...after Mass", zamiast "...after the Mass".

Ma ktos jakis solidny link albo tytul ksiazki? Cos co by pomoglo mi zwalczyc niemoc w tym temacie?
Wszystkie zrodla wziete z google nie za wiele pomagaja w codziennym uzywaniu jezyka. Sa bardzo ogolne.

Dziekuje z gory, pozdrawiam


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## LilianaB

The rules here are the same as the rules about definite article usage, including the omission of the definite articles in   certain constructions related to places. A similar construction will be the one with school. _I was in school_, for example. The construction without the article is an idiomatic expression. _I was in hospital_, etc.(meaning I was a patient in a hospital)

You just have to read a chapter about definite and indefinite articles from a reliable grammar book.


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## majlo

Well, as much as I agree with you, Liliana, I don't think there exists a grammar book which fully covers the subject.


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## Stardusd

Hi! Strzykafka

We use "the" before the substantive when we refer in particular. Ex: The mass we talked about. The man who killed the dog. And in some cases when we don't do it frequently, for instance> I am going to the church, I am going to the hospital my mother works at. 

We don't use "the" when we refer in general, or we do frequently.
For instance: Gold is expensive, Iron is cheap.
And in movement> I go to school everyday, sometimes we drop "to" too, ex: I go school everyday.
I think this isn't a difficult matter. Any english book will explain this.
Note- I am not an english speaker but I hope I've helped you.

My reply is to....Strzykafka #1


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## NotNow

A native speaker would never say _I go school everyday_. The word _to _is dropped only when it's used with an indirect object ("I gave the book to him. I gave him the book.")


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## arturolczykowski

> The word _to is dropped only when it's used with an indirect object_



I think there is an exception in "movement sentences". You don't use "to" with "home" - "I go home".


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## NotNow

_I go home_ doesn''t sound too hot either, but _I'm going home _and _I went home_ are fine. Are there are any rules concerning this construction?


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## arturolczykowski

> _I go home doesn''t sound too hot either_


_

It all depends on context. I can imagine a conversation that would go like this: 'What do you usually do after work?' 'I go home, have dinner and play computer games'. But you're right, 'I go home' on its own doesn't sound good...._


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## Denis555

Good! *A Short Article on Articles*​


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## Szkot

Going back to the question, 'the' is certainly omitted in phrases like 'going to mass', but is sometimes used in reference to the ritual itself, or a particular version (the Catholic mass), or a particular musical setting.  I would say that it is more common to leave it out, but that there is no firm rule.


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## Strzykafka

Thanks guys for your input

@Denis555 - thanks for the article, I will read it today.



Szkot said:


> Going back to the question, 'the' is certainly omitted in phrases like 'going to mass', but is sometimes used in reference to the ritual itself, or a particular version (the Catholic mass), or a particular musical setting.  I would say that it is more common to leave it out, but that there is no firm rule.



So, words like, school, mass, gym, hospital, church, have dropped the/a, when we mean more the action/act/ritual which is connected with these "places"?

For example, short conversation:
A: Where have you been yesterday when I tried to call you?
B: I was at *the* gym/school...

I am not sure if there will be "at the hospital"? Sounds weird.

Anyway, the conversations suggests: these people are friends, probably person A knows what gym or church person B attends. So there is "*the*" article. It is connected with a place, "I was at...", _I was there, I was at the particular place at the particular time when you wanted to reach me on my cell phone, but I couldn't pick it up._





But, when I am talking not about the specific place, but more about the situation and action which is connected with a place, I would drop "*the*"?
In example, like arturolczykowski's example:
A: What did you do after work?  (<--- not "_Where have you been_", and not "_the work_" - work, as an action, certain job which requires "_doing_")
B: I was at gym/school/church/mass.

So person B doesn't put attention on the place, but on what was doing. I was at gym. I was working out/I was at school to gain some knowledge...

Is my thinking going in good direction? I know I am analyzing too much, but I need to understand that to use it properly.



What about the last example, but:
*I was at church at the mass* or _*I was at church at mass*
_
I know nobody would say that, but how it would be correct gramaticaly?


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## LilianaB

I don't think any precise, all-incuding rules exist here. It is better to learn this idomatic usage one phrase at a time. If you drop the definite article, the phrase may mean something else, as in the _hospital_ example.


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