# çocuklarla beraber olan kadın Deniz - [Grammar]



## Arabus

Hello,

What happens if I say "çocuklarla beraber kadın Deniz?" Is "olan" obligatory?

Thanks,


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## macrotis

Yes. You need to put a verb to complete the phrase Other examples:

_Çocuklarla *beraber* *gelen* kadın
Çocuklarla *beraber* *oturan* kadın
Çocuklarla *beraber*__ *oynayan* kadın_
_Çocuklarla *beraber* dünyanın en lezzetli meyvelerinin yetiştiği bahçeyi *gezen* kadın_


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## Rallino

Your sentence: "Çocuklarla beraber olan kadın" means _the woman who has sex with children_.

Because, "beraber olmak" = to have sex with

I doubt that's what you mean. What is the English sentence?


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## Eline0909

beraber= together, together with
beraber olmak= to be together with
olmak= to be
beraberinde= beraber= together, together with

kadın çocuklarla beraber = the woman is together with children

kadınla beraber olan çocuklar= the children who are together with the woman (actually in the company of) 

çocuklarla beraber olan kadın= 1. the woman who is together with children (in the company of children) 2. the woman who is having sexual relationship with children

So it is a tricky sentence but most people will understand from the context what you are saying. If you do not want to be misunderstood, you just say 

1. çocukların beraberinde olan kadın

or

2. çocukların yanında (lit. beside) olan kadın


One more exemple: 

Mustafa ile Fatma 3 senedir beraberler= Mustafa and Fatma have been together for 3 years (they are a couple)


P.S. beraber olmak has two meanings 1= to be together with (in the company of) 2= to have sexual intercourse with


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## Arabus

No pedophilic sex. I meant to be with.

So it looks to me that "olan" here functions like the relative pronoun -ki. Can I use -ki? Where do I put it?

_çocuklarla beraberki kadın Deniz_...?


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## Rallino

Arabus said:


> No pedophilic sex. I meant to be with.
> 
> So it looks to me that "olan" here functions like the relative pronoun -ki. Can I use -ki? Where do I put it?
> 
> _çocuklarla beraberki kadın Deniz_...?



No, that doesn't work. It is going to be a lot easier if you use "yanında" instead of _beraber_.

Çocukların yanında olan kadın
Çocukların yanındaki kadın

They mean exactly the same thing _(The women who is with the kids)_, without any misunderstanding.


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## Arabus

What about:

_çocukların beraberindeki kadın __Deniz__(dir)...?

_I am not concerned much with meaning. My main concern is the grammar.


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## Rallino

Arabus said:


> What about:
> 
> _çocukların beraberindeki kadın __Deniz__(dir)...?
> 
> _I am not concerned much with meaning. My main concern is the grammar.



Oh that's a perfect sentence! Totally flawless!  I hadn't thought of it, bravo!


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## Eline0909

_çocuklarla beraberki kadın Deniz= çocukların beraberindeki kadın Deniz= çocuklarla birlikteki kadın Deniz  _

_They all mean the same thing._


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## macrotis

> _çocuklarla beraberki kadın Deniz_


This isn't correct.


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## Rallino

Eline0909 said:


> _...çocuklarla birlikteki kadın Deniz  _



That one sounds weird. I have never heard it used.


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## Arabus

So it looks like -ki can only be used after -de?


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## Black4blue

Arabus said:


> So it looks like -ki can only be used after -de?


 
Yes, I guess. Cause I tried with suffixes other than "-de" and non of them made sense.


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## Rallino

Arabus said:


> So it looks like -ki can only be used after -de?



With the directions, yes. Like: Soldaki (the one on the left), Alttaki (the one that is below...) and so on.

There are however uses of "ki" without the stative "de". The best example would be "possessive pronouns".

Bu senin araban; şu *benimki*.
(This is your car, that one is *mine*.)

Bu kimlik İrem'in; *Berk'inki* şu.
(This ID card is İrem's, that one is *Berk's*.)


Other than possessives, some time-indicating nouns also receive it:

Bu ay yaptığımız masraflar geçen *ayki*nden daha fazla.
(The expenses that we paid this month are higher than *the ones of the last month*.)

Note that "ki" is invariable. You don't apply vocal harmony, except for two words. We say: *bugünkü *(today's) and *dünkü* (yesterday's).


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## Eline0909

Rallino said:


> That one sounds weird. I have never heard it used.


 
I agree that beraberki is wrong. (It was just too early in the morning when I wrote this) but birlikteki is OK I think, even if it is not very common, but some other people might have some other ideas. In thet case it would be interesting to hear.


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