# Bitch/bitchy



## moodywop

systema encephale said:
			
		

> Well, I guess _bitch_ may mean _stronza_ when you refer to some girl you hate. But it also means a girl "renting" her body to "entertain" men for money, right?


 
According to the _Cassell Dict of Slang _the "prostitute" sense was only current until the mid-19th c.: _the original use implied disapproval of the woman's sexuality... today's use focuses on her personality. _

I think  _stronza _is a bit too generic. A  _bitch _is supposed to be "acida" and "maligna". I've always found the use of this word to be rather unfair, since a guy can be just as much of a  bitch as a woman.

My question is - can a man be called "bitchy"?(my British friends say it can't be used to describe men). After all, a "bitchy remark" is gender-neutral


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## You little ripper!

moodywop said:
			
		

> According to the _Cassell Dict of Slang _the "prostitute" sense was only current until the mid-19th c.: _the original use implied disapproval of the woman's sexuality... today's use focuses on her personality. _
> 
> I think  _stronza _is a bit too generic. A  _bitch _is supposed to be "acida" and "maligna". I've always found the use of this word to be rather unfair, since a guy can be just as much of a  bitch as a woman.
> 
> My question is - can a man be called "bitchy"?(my British friends say it can't be used to describe men). After all, a "bitchy remark" is gender-neutral


In Australia the only men who are refered to as _bitchy_ are _gay_. Straight men may make_ bitchy remarks_ but are not actually called _bitchy._ That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.

Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a _bitch_. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.


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## GaryD

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> In Australia the only men who are refered to as _bitchy_ are _gay_. Straight men may make_ bitchy remarks_ but are not actually called _bitchy._ That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.
> 
> Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a _bitch_. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.


 I have heard non-gay men/comments made by them called _bitchy_ but it was definitely in an ironic sense as if implying that the comments/actions were more suited to a (_bitchy_) woman (not that I'd ever be that sexist of course! )
GaryD


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## moodywop

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> In Australia the only men who are refered to as _bitchy_ are _gay_. Straight men may make_ bitchy remarks_ but are not actually called _bitchy._ That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.
> 
> Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a _bitch_. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.


 
Thanks, Charles. You confirmed what my British friends told me.

Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?


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## You little ripper!

moodywop said:
			
		

> Thanks, Charles. You confirmed what my British friends told me.
> 
> Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?


I think _closet queen_ ranks high in the list. 
_ Son of a bitch_ would be in that list. Otherwise _asshole, dickhead, mongrel, mother fucker, prick, _or_ shit.  _


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## GaryD

moodywop said:
			
		

> Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?


Friendless?


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## systema encephale

What's _"closet queen"_? I got the meaning reading other synonyms proposed, but do we have an equivalent in Italian?


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## You little ripper!

systema encephale said:
			
		

> What's _"closet queen"_? I got the meaning reading other synonyms proposed, but do we have an equivalent in Italian?


It's someone who chooses not to reveal his homosexuality. I couldn't find any Italian word for it. Oxford Paravia translates someone in the closet as uno_ che nasconde le proprie tendenze_ in this case their homosexuality_._ Garzanti translates someone who has come out of the closet as _dichiararsi._


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## moodywop

Actually that could be the subject of a separate thread. This sense of "closet" has been extended to all kinds of contexts:

_a closet liberal_
_a closet foodie_
_a closet racist_
_a closet snob_
_a closet pedant_
_a closet  tart_

and lots more - as you can find out by googling "closet" + practically any word.

In some cases "sotto mentite spoglie" might work: _un razzista sotto mentite spoglie._ But we don't have anything as colloquial or as widely (maybe excessively) used.


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## TimLA

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> In Australia the only men who are refered to as _bitchy_ are _gay_. Straight men may make_ bitchy remarks_ but are not actually called _bitchy._ That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.
> 
> Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a _bitch_. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.


 
For the less experienced Italians, a "bitch" is a female dog, and if you go to dog shows, the word is used VERY often. I was uncomfortable saying it at first.

In Los Angeles (different country, different language) it is possible to use the verb to describe a man's actions just like Charles said -"stop bitching at me!" - stop nagging me. But most of the time it refers to women, and is used in the gay community (as stated by many others here).


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## carrickp

In addition, in modern AE slang a man may call another man "bitch" as an insult. I believe this comes from prison slang, where a "bitch" is a dominant prisoner's involuntary homosexual partner.

"To bitch" is to complain a lot. "He's always bitching when they try to get him to work overtime then bitching because he misses out on the extra money."


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## moodywop

In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.


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## ElaineG

Dunque la parola "acidona" che ho sentito qualche volta può essere un'altra possibilità per "bitch"?

Non ho mai sentito "acidono"; si usa questa parola per gli uomini o no?


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## TimLA

moodywop said:
			
		

> In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.


 
Inizio Io:

(alcune in ripetizione)

strega, vecchia strega, befana, bruta, dispettosa, schifosa, acido - acidulo, acerbo, malevolo, duro, forte, asciutto, selvaggio, selvatico, ostile

aver buco, aver culo

brontolare
lamentarsi
la regina nelle carte e negli scacchi


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## systema encephale

To me _bitch_  to a girl sounds like _troietta_  or _stronza_


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## moodywop

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Dunque la parola "acidona" che ho sentito qualche volta può essere un'altra possibilità per "bitch"?
> 
> Non ho mai sentito "acidono"; si usa questa parola per gli uomini o no?


 
Un uomo acido è "un acidone". Secondo me "acido" va benissimo per "bitchy":

1b agg., fig., astioso e malevolo: _un carattere a._, _una risposta, una persona acida_ (De Mauro)

Per quanto riguarda  "bitch" continuo a non essere d'accordo su  "stronza". Quest'ultimo può andar bene quando la parola inglese viene usata genericamente come termine offensivo per descrivere una persona antipatica, ma non quando ha il senso preciso di "astioso e malevolo"


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## GaryD

moodywop said:
			
		

> In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.


And one with a BE equivalent - acid tounge (no, not a complaint needing medical attention) or acid remark could be ascribed to a bitchy comment
GaryD


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## Silvia

Secondo me descrivere una donna come acida ha un significato, descriverla come stronza ha tutt'altro significato.

Anche in italiano bitch può essere tradotto come "cagna", con significato di cane femmina (non volgare, anche se di solito preferiamo usare cagnetta, a meno che pesi 120 kg! ), o con significato spregiativo riferito a una donna.

Ad ogni modo il significato più usato credo sia quello già menzionato, ovvero "stronza"

L'equivalente maschile in significato, in termini comportamentali, ho sempre pensato fosse "jerk".


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## Elisa68

Da quanto ho letto qui _bitch_ implica anche una certa cattiveria, connotazione che _acida/_o invece non ha, checché ne dica il De Mauro che definisce acido come malevolo; vorrei sentire però anche l'opinione degli altri su questo .

Secondo me una persona _acida_ è una persona ostile, forse anche odiosa, ma non necessariamente cattiva.

Credo che la traduzione migliore possa essere _troia_  parola usata ormai non solo per indicare una _whore_, ma anche per indicare una persona cattiva. Certo è solo al femminile.


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## Silvia

Una persona si definisce acida quando risponde in modo brusco, secco, scontroso (that is grumpy and surly) e via dicendo. Così intendo di solito l'uso del termine. Perciò sì, Elisa, traspare una certa ostilità, ma può essere una cosa passeggera, relativa ad una giornata particolare per esempio... "Come sei acida oggi!". 

Non sono d'accordo sull'altro traducente da te suggerito, molto forte, pesante, e che io non ho mai sentito usare nel senso che tu hai indicato (credo che tu lo intenda per stronza).


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## Alfry

Io considero acida una donna quando ad ogni domanda risponde in modo un po' troppo prevenuto e velenoso anche se la domanda era innoqua;
la considero stronza se non si limita a risposte acide e velenose ma passa anche ai fatti.

Esempio:

A: Ciao Elisa, come stai?
E: Non sono cavolacci tuoi
A: Siamo acide oggi?

A: Ciao Elisa, come stai?
E: Non sono cavolacci tuoi, anzi adesso vado dal capo e gli dico che mi hai dato un pizzicotto al sedere
A: Oltre che acide siamo anche  stronzette forti oggi?


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## Silvia

Concordo pienamente, Alfry


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## systema encephale

Alfry said:
			
		

> ... anche se la domanda era inno*c*ua


correzione 

Sono d'accordo anch'io con Alfry. Ma riguardo la traduzione? _Bitch_ mi sembra più forte di un semplice _acida_.


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## Silvia

Che ne dici della parolina che inizia per s?


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## ElaineG

systema encephale said:
			
		

> correzione
> 
> Sono d'accordo anch'io con Alfry. Ma riguardo la traduzione? _Bitch_ mi sembra più forte di un semplice _acida_.


 
Well, we should distinguish between "bitch" used as an epithet ("troia" probably comes closest in my experience of how it's used by people in daily life, although "troia" has the implication of being a slut, which "bitch" doesn't have") and "bitch" used as a descriptive term.

Thus, furious drunk husband screaming at his wife: "Fuck off, you stupid bitch!"    Here, bitch is just a nasty epithet to be insulting and make her feel bad -- no specific content. Living in a small street in Sicily where you could hear everyone's business, I did hear "troia" being used this way, more than I care to remember! Maybe "stronza" too, but I don't remember hearing that as much.

"Be careful of the women who is Head of Human Resources. She can be a real bitch when she wants to be." Here, you're describing a specific character trait -- usually meaning that she is _nasty and cutting_ when she wants to be. This is where I think acida and acidona come into play. 

See also:

Elaine: I thought we required standard language forms on this forum, but it seems, Alfry, that maybe hippos are too stupid and slow to grasp that.

Alfry: I'm trying my best, Elaine, you don't have to _be a bitch _about it.

There, bitch is describing a specific behavior.


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## Alfry

systema encephale said:
			
		

> correzione
> 
> Sono d'accordo anch'io con Alfry. Ma riguardo la traduzione? _Bitch_ mi sembra più forte di un semplice _acida_.


 
Si son d'accordo anche io, grazie della correzione,
erroraccio da bacchettata sulle dita


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## Silvia

ElaineG said:
			
		

> although "troia"   has the implication of being a slut, which "bitch" doesn't have")


Indeed.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Thus, furious drunk husband screaming at his wife: "Fuck off, you stupid bitch!"    Here, bitch is just a nasty epithet to be insulting and make her feel bad -- no specific content. Living in a small street in Sicily where you could hear everyone's business, I did hear "troia" being used this way, more than I care to remember! Maybe "stronza" too, but I don't remember hearing that as much.


 That might be a matter of place (North/South)



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> "Be careful of the women who is Head of Human Resources. She can be a real bitch when she wants to be." Here, you're describing a specific character trait -- usually meaning that she is _nasty and cutting_ when she wants to be. This is where I think acida and acidona come into play.


No, I don't think so. Stronza  is the word.



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> I'm trying my best, Elaine, you don't have to _be a bitch _about it.


 Ce la metto tutta, Elaine, non devi... (e qui tutto dipende dal grado di volgarità che si vuole adottare, I would start from this) rompere le palle.


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## raffavita

Mi sono appena imbattuta in "bitchy" anche io.
Nel contesto che ho, sembra proprio che "stronza" sia la soluzione più adatta.
Vorrei sapere se siete d'accordo.
Ecco il contesto:
"Bitchy" is the word used by a woman to define another woman who cheats on a man and puts the blame on him for her actions.

"I found her behaviour bitchy and cheap."

"Trovo che si sia comportata da stronza e in modo meschino."
But what could I say if I needed to used "bitchy" as referred to the behaviour itself?"
"Il suo comportamento è ? e meschino."

I'm asking this because I have many sentences with "bitchy."

Thank you very much.
Raffa


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## niklavjus

"Ignobile"? "Maligno"? "Stronzo"??


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## raffavita

Hi Niklavjus,
"ignobile" sounds perfect.
I thought of "crudele".

"The things she did were bitchy and cheap."
"Quello che ha fatto è crudele/ignobile e meschino."

Che ne dici?
Grazie mille.


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## niklavjus

raffavita said:


> I thought of "crudele".
> 
> "The things she did were bitchy and cheap."
> "Quello che ha fatto è crudele/ignobile e meschino."
> 
> Che ne dici?


Forse non sono il più adatto per dare pareri dal momento che conosco quel termine solo da ieri, ma se va bene "malvagio" perché no? Mi erano passati per la mente anche "perfido" (l'ingannatrice citata più sopra lo è di sicuro) e "perverso". E se, come dici, il termine è frequente forse dovresti valutare l'idea di arrichire le sfumature del testo concedendoti qualche libertà espressiva. 
Altre definizioni  per "bitchy", oltre quelle già viste nel thread: "odioso", "arrogante", "dispettoso", "malizioso" etc. 
Forse per "bitch" in qualche caso si potrebbe usare "vipera".

Anche "cheap" è una parolina densa di significati. Vuol anche dire "a buon mercato", no? 

"Le cose che faceva erano crudeli e gratuite" (?) 

La scelta dell'imperfetto non è significativa, e non so nemmeno se è corretta, non farci caso.


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## Musical Chairs

If a guy does something mean, a younger person may say, "ugh, he's such a bitch" but it's meant to be a little funny because a bitch is normally a woman. But people my age say it often enough.

Though, guys and girls alike can be called "assholes" and "dicks" too.


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## TheAmzngTwinWndr

so *I'*m 19 and in *A*merica (in my age group at least) bitch is used to refer to either sex. *I*t can be used in a deragatory manner or as a joke among friends.


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## raffavita

Ciao a tutti,
ciao Niklavjus.
"Maligno" non mi convince nel contesto che ho.
La ragazza che parla del comportamento della donna che ha tradito, non avrebbe usato "maligno".
Preferisco di gran lunga il "perfido" che suggerivi tu.
Non so, ho seguito i dialoghi tra i due e sono convinta che la ragazza non userebbe "maligno". Sta dicendo che la donna è in cattiva fede, che è meschina e cattiva, ma maligna mi suona troppo fairy tales, non ci posso fare niente.
Grazie mille per la collaborazione e per il consiglio ("perfido" sounds perfect).
Grazie a tutti.
Raffa


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## niklavjus

raffavita said:


> "Maligno" non mi convince nel contesto che ho.


Scusami, non mi sono ben spiegato. Volevo semplicemente risponderti in merito all'uso di "crudele".
"Maligno", così come gli altri possibili sinonimi che ho citato, sono riportati da diverse fonti (vedi i link). 
La scelta dei termini dipende dal contesto, e dalla tua sensibilità, naturalmente.


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## raffavita

Grazie Niklavjus.
La cosa più assurda è che tu "maligno" non l'avevi neanche detto.
In effetti, si presta a mille interpretazioni.
Sono due giorni che ci penso
Grazie mille per il tuo aiuto e scusami tu se non ho capito.
Rafs


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## Tiger_Rose_13

moodywop said:


> In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.



I'd use "maliziosa."  The book _Hide this Italian Book_ from Berlitz gives that as the translation of "bitchy" on page 70.


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## london calling

Tiger_Rose_13 said:


> I'd use "maliziosa." The book _Hide this Italian Book_ from Berlitz gives that as the translation of "bitchy" on page 70.


I disagree totally with that book! I wouldn't translate it like that, in any context, unless I were wishing to "clean up" the original language (which I know some translators do). Have a look at this.


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## shakalaka

L'altro giorno in una puntata Big Bang Theory, Penny è stata apostrofata da un'altra ragazza con "stronza", ma sulle labbra si è letto chiaramente il "bitch"


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## Nico2

In colloquial speech: 

The bartender was really bitchy. 


What would be a commonly translation for "bitchy" in Italian? I see options here in WR for bitchy (maligno, malevolo, dispettoso) but it is not clear what is colloquially used or how. Thanks.


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## horace.mik

I guess it could be translated as "cazzone".


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## Paulfromitaly

horace.mik said:


> I guess it could be translated as "cazzone".



Non si traducono gli aggettivi con i sostantivi


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## Odysseus54

In that context, I'd say 'scorbutico'.


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## Nico2

I like cazzone, considering how often i hear variants of cazzo everywhere. It seems OK to me as a noun. 
Sono cazzone/i. They are bitchy people


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## Teerex51

Nah, _cazzone _is off on more levels than one.

Lacking more context, I'd go with _scorbutico, scostante, lunatico_ etc.


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## horace.mik

I can't see why "cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".


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## Paulfromitaly

horace.mik said:


> I can't see why "cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".



You can't see it? Because it is a NOUN while bitchy is an ADJECTIVE.


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## horace.mik

This is more than clear to me, and I agree with you, but I've translated by following the sense of what Nico2 had required.


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## london calling

horace.mik said:


> This is more than clear to me, and I agree with you, but I've translated by following the sense of what Nico2 had required.


Aldilà del fatto che _cazzone_ è un sostantivo, per me in ogni caso non traduce il senso di 'bitchy'. Se dico che qualcuno è _bitchy_ non intendo certamente dire che è un cazzone. Parlando di un barista, io l''intendo come gli altri, sgorbutico, maleducato, perfino acido.


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## Odysseus54

horace.mik said:


> I can't see why "cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".



The reason why I would not use your translation ( ricordati i , che servono ai non-italiani ) , is because it is generic ( idiot, asshole, etc. ) , and because it is stronger than the English 'bitchy'.

Having said which, the fact remains that 'bitchy' is used more often than we would use 'scorbutico' and 'scostante' , and that the register is different.

Another one that I think is pretty close in register could be 'antipatico', but not always.  

Right now I can't think of anything better..


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## Odysseus54

NOTA DI MODERAZIONE


Ragazzi e ragazze, ricordiamoci i  prima di parolacce, parole zozze, bestemmie ecc ecc.  Non e' per mettere le mutande alle statue greche, ma per aiutare gli studenti di italiano a capire come si parla ai genitori della fidanzata, o in un colloquio di lavoro.


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## Nico2

Cazzone probably does not specify the attitude that the English "bitchy" would, but it seems to capture a common colloquial way to describe an unpleasant person and I would be likely to use this in this context.

As a separate matter and only as a matter of opinion, I think the adjective "bitchy" ought to be treated separately from the noun "bitch" because there are very many differences in use, meaning, register, level of offensiveness, etc. and that is why I originally started a new thread. (A person can very easily be bitchy or act in a bitchy way without necessarily being considered a bitch.)


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## london calling

Nico2 said:


> Cazzone probably does not specify the attitude that the English "bitchy" would, but it seems to capture a common colloquial way to describe an unpleasant person and I would be likely to use this in this context.


I would be very unlikely to use it in this context. It means _dickhead_, generally speaking. Not the same as 'bitchy' at all.


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## Odysseus54

Nico2 said:


> Cazzone probably does not specify the attitude that the English "bitchy" would, but it seems to capture a common colloquial way to describe an unpleasant person and I would be likely to use this in this context.



One of the differences is that if you call someone 'bitchy' it's not gonna be a big deal.  You call someone a 'cazzone' to his face, you better be ready for a Glasgow kiss.


Remember the , sir - next time you omit it, I'll delete your post.


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## theycallmethewanderer

Both "bitch" and "bitchy" can be used as adjectives, but "bitchy" can not be used as a noun.

The words have different meanings depending on what you attach them to. In general, if you applied the word "bitch" to a woman, it would be linked to certain qualities deemed grating in a woman, such as doggedness, and aggression, whereas in a man- in whom these qualities are not so grating- the meaning would be linked instead to weak, traditionally "womanlike" qualities. Really though, intent is key in the use of this word.


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