# Use of thee, thou and thy (Quaker speech/Yorkshire dialect)



## AmoL'italiano

Also, "thy" is the formal form of "your" and "thine" is the formal one.

Oh! Thine eyes are beauteous!

Ah... thy kingdom is grand indeed.


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## lsp

AmoL'italiano said:
			
		

> Also, "thy" is the formal form of "your" and "thine" is the formal one.
> 
> Oh! Thine eyes are beauteous!
> 
> Ah... thy kingdom is grand indeed.


I think you should have specified how very limited these forms are, i.e., used seldom other than in the Bible, for example. (Also, did you notice that this thread is 15 months old?)


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## AmoL'italiano

Sry, I answered it because I searched for "thou" in the Wordreference dictionary and I saw this thread. I thought there was an Italian archaiac/poetic form for it.


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## disegno

lsp said:
			
		

> I think you should have specified how very limited these forms are, i.e., used seldom other than in the Bible, for example. (Also, did you notice that this thread is 15 months old?)



Not so very limited. Very much alive and kicking in Quaker circles. My parents have used thee and thou and thy all their lives. 

"You" was the formal way of addressing the King, back in the days in England, but the Quakers who believed in addressing everyone equally, continued using "thee and thou". But, as time went by "you" was adopted into everyday speech and it was the "thee and thous" that started to sound formal and foreign. As such, ironically and in keeping with Quaker tradition, my parents didn't teach us to use thee and thou because it would have made us stick out...


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## DiFossa

In some circles, the third person formal you has been replaced with the pronoun "one."  You can write a letter to the Director of Human Relations.  One may write a letter...

It is rather interesting.  As someone previously noted, you also changed in Spanish.... many latinos now simply use ustedes...  

I ask you...Do we really need a distinction between you informal, you formal, you plural?


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## petereid

Hi 
These antique personal pronouns still exist in prayers but also in quite modern (20thcentury)  song lyrics and in poetry. Most of the population would use the impersonal You In the form of "You can see London from here"

The continued usage in the USA  of "thee thou ye" etc is the result of the language of the colonists becoming isolated from the  language of Britain which has simplified more.  I expect that some of the usage in the US is to retain the identities of various populations like the Amish people.


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## lsp

disegno said:
			
		

> Not so very limited. Very much alive and kicking in Quaker circles. My parents have used thee and thou and thy all their lives.


Yes, and I'd still call that _very_ limited!  Especially in a language forum. Wouldn't want to hear someone say thou while buying a train ticket in Grand Central Terminal, for example, followed by, "but I read it in a language forum online!"


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## Chaska Ñawi

disegno said:
			
		

> Not so very limited. Very much alive and kicking in Quaker circles. My parents have used thee and thou and thy all their lives.



I hadn't realized that there were holdouts!  The last Friends I heard using these pronouns died in the seventies, so this is really interesting.

Yorkshire and the surrounding areas still have many residents who use a variant on "thee", which is "tha".  You hear "tha knows", "Does tha want...?", etc.


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## petereid

Eh lad! Th're right.
I'd forgotten about my adoptive county. 
Yes, "Mind'st thee" and "wi'thee"
"si'thee" are still heard here in the vale of York, and not only amongst the older population.
It's even more prevalent in the Dales.


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## Panpan

petereid said:
			
		

> Eh lad! Tha's right.
> I'd forgotten about my adoptive county.
> Yes, "Mind'st thee" and "wi'thee"
> "si'thee" are still heard here in the vale of York, and not only amongst the older population.
> It's even more prevalent in the Dales.


Hope you don't mind me correcting your tyke dialect 

(Tha's = Thou is = You are)

Panpan


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## disegno

lsp said:
			
		

> Yes, and I'd still call that _very_ limited!  Especially in a language forum. Wouldn't want to hear someone say thou while buying a train ticket in Grand Central Terminal, for example, followed by, "but I read it in a language forum online!"



Yes that is true. My parents use these terms only amongst themselves and to relatives and not to the general public. If they had, that would have made them stand out, and quite the opposite, as I mentioned earlier, as to why Friends they use the terms in the first place. My father, for instance, who was a college professor, would never have used them with his students.


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## Chaska Ñawi

That makes sense.  I do ocasionally use these pronouns (for those not in the loop, this is known to Quakers as plain speech) with my children, but more in the sense of a linguistic re-enactment, if there is such a phrase.  It certainly isn't part of our normal conversation, however, the way it seems to be with your parents.

In fact, all we've really retained of plain speech is the use of "First Day" instead of Sunday, at least in Canadian circles.


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## Brioche

AmoL'italiano said:
			
		

> Also, "thy" is the formal form of "your" and "thine" is the formal one.
> 
> Oh! Thine eyes are beauteous!
> 
> Ah... thy kingdom is grand indeed.


 
In former times _thou_ was the singular second-person subject form, and _thee_ was the singluar object form. The possessive was _thine._

_Ye _was the plural second-person subject form, _you_ was the plural second-person object form. This distinction is observed in the King James translation of the Bible.

e.g. 
Blessed are* ye*, when men shall revile *you.*
We have piped unto *you*, and* ye* have not danced.

Later _ye_/_you_ was used as the respectful form (cf. tu/vous in French)
In Shakespeare's Twelfth Night the usage of thee and you is important in understanding the relationship between Malvolio and Olivia.

The distinction between *you* and *ye* was lost - Shakespeare does not observe it. Eventually, *you* was used for everybody.

Quakers used _thee_ both as subject and object.

The possessive forms were *thine *and* thy,* similar to* mine *and* my.*
*Thine* was generally used before vowels.


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## COLsass

Panpan said:
			
		

> Hope you don't mind me correcting your tyke dialect
> 
> (Tha's = Thou is = You are)
> 
> Panpan


 
Wasn't it thou art?


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## Brioche

Panpam said:
			
		

> _Hope you don't mind me correcting your tyke dialect _
> 
> _(Tha's = Thou is = You are)_
> 
> _Panpan _


 


			
				COLsass said:
			
		

> Wasn't it thou art?


 
You're confusing current northern dialects of English with former versions of Standard English.


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## Panpan

Brioche said:
			
		

> You're confusing current northern dialects of English with former versions of Standard English.


Your right, we don't really have dialects in England, just heavily accented local vernacular.  The only 'real' dialect of English that I know of is the 'Pidgin' spoken in parts of Malaysia and Indonesia, consisting of mainly English words, and corruptions and adaptions of English words, cast in Chinese sentance order.

Panpan


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## Thomas1

"Friend, John Brown, thee must n't take it unkindly, but thee must n't eat any more now. Thou can'st have some more in the day-time if thou like; but thou wilt make thyself ill, if thou take more now."
http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/jbrown/jbrown.html

  This is an utterance by a Quaker, made in the 19th century in the US. 
  I read a few books from this period, mainly British literature, and I don’t remember coming across such forms. Though I don’t rule them out in other English speakers I think they may have been particular to the Quakers.

  I have read a few threads on _thou _but didn't really find the answer. I also read on Wikipedia that _thou _petered out of use in the seventeenth century but it prevailed in some English and Scottish dialects as well as in Quakers.

  What I would like to know is:
  Is there any reason for which Quakers spoke like that?

  My conjecture is that it may have to do with their attitude towards egalitarianism. Since they treated all people as equals, e.g.: no hats off nor bowing to anyone, no using honorific terms (Sir, Madam, etc.), and since thou used to be the standard form for the second person plural this might be the reason for their having preserved it whereas you was at that time used for the second person singular as a formal counterpart of thou. Does that hold water?

  My second question is: do the Quakers, or any other groups, still use these forms  (_thou _and its derivatives and appropriated verb endings.)?

  Input appreciated. 

  Thanks,
  Tom


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## Brioche

_thou_ was the second person singular_ subject_ form.  
_thee_ was the second person singular _object_ form.

_And I say unto *thee*, that *thou* art Peter _[Matthew 16:18]

_ye_ was the second person plural _subject_ form.
_you_ was the second person plural_ object_ form.

_Blessed are *ye* when men shall hate *you*._ [Luke, 6:22]

These niceties were observed in the 1611 King James translation of the Bible. 
However, the KJV was old-fashioned when it was published.

Most of what you want to know can be found in the Wiki entry on thou


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## Matching Mole

There is an old post (1996!) discussing this subject in depth here. It seems to confirm that the Quakers used the singular for egalitarian reasons and that they considered "you" used as singular to be "vain". It also notes that the use of thee and thou was often inconsistent (e.g. using thee in the nominative case).

It also discusses and compares the Quaker usage with other surviving uses of the second person singular, for example in the north of England (which, incidentally, I used a boy).


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## Cagey

The discussion in Matching Mole's link mentions the following book, which takes  Quaker practice as a particular example of the power of language and its significance in social interaction.  I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this aspect of language:
Richard Bauman, _Let your words be few: symbolism of speaking and silence among seventeenth century Quakers_. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1983.​


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## girl from rio de janeiro

_America, America, God shed His grace on thee, and crown thy good with brotherhood (America the Beautiful)._
_Thou shalt has no other gods before me (Exodus)._
What's the difference between thou and thee? I know that they're both archaic forms, do they both correspond to "you"? Thank you very much in advance.


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## Elwintee

girl from rio de janeiro said:


> _America, America, God shed His grace on thee, and crown thy good with brotherhood (America the Beautiful)._
> _Thou shalt has *[have]* no other gods before me (Exodus)._
> What's the difference between thou and thee? I know that they're both archaic forms, do they both correspond to "you"? Thank you very much in advance.



Yes.  People are welcome to correct me, but I believe the answer is:

thou = nominative (subject of the sentence)
thee = accusative (object of the sentence)
thy/thine = genitive (indication of possession)

*Thou *art {= you are] God.
I see *thee *[you].
Hallowed be *thy *[your]name.  *Thine *[yours]is the glory.


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## pismo

They correspond (as Elwintee explained) to the informal form of "you,"  which is no longer used in modern English.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Thou/thee/thy/thine are the second person singular pronoun in English.  They correspond to the Latin/French/Spanish _tu_, and the German _du_.


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## Redshade

Elwintee said:


> Yes. People are welcome to correct me, but I believe the answer is:
> 
> thou = nominative (subject of the sentence)
> thee = accusative (object of the sentence)
> thy/thine = genitive (indication of possession)
> 
> *Thou *art {= you are] God.
> I see *thee *[you].
> Hallowed be *thy *[your]name. *Thine *[yours]is the glory.


 
The forms are still actually in use by working class people here in the West Riding although with a Yorkshire accent .

"Tha can't be serious".
"I'll see thi tomorrow".
"Is this thar pint?".


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## Sprache

The difference between _thou/thee_ is the same as the difference between _he/him_ or _I/me_.
*
Thou seest him. He sees thee.*


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## Chris1

Yes: thee/thou/thy is alive and kicking in the West Riding- much more widespread amongst the over 65s though


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## Kevin Beach

Am I not right in thinking that the Yorkshire usage is not quite grammatical? 

I think I've heard _tha's_ (thou is), but not _th'art_ (thou art).

I think the usage is (or was in living memory) common in rural Cumbria too.


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## Redshade

Kevin Beach said:


> Am I not right in thinking that the Yorkshire usage is not quite grammatical?
> 
> I think I've heard _tha's_ (thou is), but not _th'art_ (thou art).
> 
> I think the usage is (or was in living memory) common in rural Cumbria too.


 
Good heavens.
You used the words "grammatical" and "Yorkshire" in the same sentence for which heinous crime you will be incarcerated in a stuck lift for 24 hours with Geoffrey Boycott, Brian Close, Frederick Trueman and Raymond Illingworth"

You are quite right of course. Note that I did not include an example for "thine" ( which one never hears these days) as I wanted to keep things simple.
We would use a bastard construction,ie we would say "thys" ( with a Yorkshire pronunciation)as in "Is this pint thars".

And thus does the language evolve.


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## girl from rio de janeiro

What do "tha" and "thys" mean?


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## JulianStuart

"What do "tha" and "thys" mean?"

Are you sure you want to specialize in old dialects of Yorkshire?  You'll have to learn to play cricket, too!


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## girl from rio de janeiro

Actually I love English, so I wish to know also these old pronouns!


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## Chris1

As a native of Yorkshire, I hear 'tha' being used as a dialect form of 'thee' "What's *tha* doing?' =What's thee doing?/ What are you doing? (in contemporary SE). Ditto 'thi' I see *thi= *'I see thee/you'. My grandparents use it a great deal- they might say '*Thys *been had' as 'You've been had' 

They would also only use it wth family and friends, so it has kept its use as the informal address. 

Without a Northern accent, this usage all sounds distinctly biblical. 'Thou shalt not steal/kill etc...' 

Chris


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## Broca

Hi, just a question! When you use words like "thou, thee..." don't you want to underline something? Why would you use such forms?
Thanks a lot!


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## panjandrum

I would only use these forms in jest - never with any serious intention.

I would of course use them if they appeared in something I was reading or singing - but that isn't me using them, it is the writer of the book or song.


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## Nunty

I never use these forms except, as panj suggested, when reading aloud or singing. Some people use them to refer to the deity when praying aloud, however.


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## Broca

Thanks. 
So they could be used for expressing irony?


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## JamesM

Broca said:


> Thanks.
> So they could be used for expressing irony?


 
I would use them with great caution.  Many people would imagine that you were imitating Shakespeare since that is the primary source of exposure to "thee" and "thou" for the average person.

If you use them poorly it might simply sound awkward.


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## Broca

Thanks, but what do you mean by "if you use them poorly..."?


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## JamesM

Broca said:


> Thanks, but what do you mean by "if you use them poorly..."?


 
I meant "if you misuse them..."

For example:


"Thy art very beautiful, mine lovely!"

This has two mistakes in it.  "Thy" should be "thou" and "mine" is used before words starting in vowels, not consonants.

You can hear dozens of bad examples in one short visit to a California Renaissance Faire.


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## Broca

Oh, ok! I thought you meant "if you use them rarely..."! 
Anyway, I'm not going to use them! I've just found them in some books and since they do not belong to Modern English, they sounded a little weird to me, that's all! 
Thanks a lot for your help.


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## girl from rio de janeiro

Why in the sentences "what's tha doing", "what's thee doing" the verb is "is" and not "are" as in "what are you doing"? 
So "thi" is the phonetic transcription for "thee"? 
What's the meaning of "thys"? I don't understand it.
Is it right to say that "thine" is the plural form of "thy"? And that they respectevely mean "yours" and "your"?
In this phrase, "is this thar pint?" what's the meaning of "thar"? 
Last question, in phrases like "thou seest him" or "thou knowest me", how to pronounce "seest" and "knowest"? How can you know these old verbs? I can't find them anywhere, do you have any sources? 
I do know that they're a lot of question, but I REALLY appreciate your help. Thank you so much!


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## Fred_C

Chris1 said:


> "What's *tha* doing?' =What's thee _*art*_ _*thou*_ doing?/ What are you doing? .


According to what was said previously....


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## Cagey

Fred_C said:


> According to what was said previously....


I think not.  Chris1 was reporting a present day use, in which the old-fashioned pronouns are used with contractions of the current verb form, _is_.


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## mplsray

girl from rio de janeiro said:


> So "thi" is the phonetic transcription for "thee"?


 
In IPA, that would be /ðiː/. Another pronunciation is /ðɪ/. I presume that the situation is similar to the /ðiː/ and /ðɪ/ pronunciations of the word _the_.

I just looked up the word _thee_ in several online dictionaries and the only one which has the additional pronunciation /ðɪ/ is the Oxford English Dictionary. Under the circumstances, I withdraw my speculation about the different uses of the two pronunciations.



> What's the meaning of "thys"? I don't understand it.


 
I have not seen that spelling used in this thread, and know of no association with _thee, thy,_ or _thine_ of a word spelled _thys._



> Is it right to say that "thine" is the plural form of "thy"? And that they respectevely mean "yours" and "your"?


 
_Thine_ is not a plural form of _thy,_ no. Long ago, only _thine_ existed. It was later reduced to _thy_ in front of a consonant other than _h,_ according to the Oxford English Dictionary, so that one would say _thine eyes_ but _thy cow._ Later, uses such as _thine eyes, thine ear_ were replaced by _thy eyes, thy ear._


_Thine_ is otherwise used as a possessive pronoun, whose modern equivalent is _yours_.



> Last question, in phrases like "thou seest him" or "thou knowest me", how to pronounce "seest" and "knowest"? How can you know these old verbs? I can't find them anywhere, do you have any sources?


 
_Seest_ and _knowest_ are pronounced like _see_ and _know_ plus -_est,_ pronounced like the end of _best_ or _wrist._ I know this from having been exposed to these verb forms as a boy when the King James (Authorized) Version of the Bible was the preferred one. There should be some sources on the Internet which discuss the pronunciation, but I could not find any just now.


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## girl from rio de janeiro

Chris1 said:


> As a native of Yorkshire, I hear 'tha' being used as a dialect form of 'thee' "What's *tha* doing?' =What's thee doing?/ What are you doing? (in contemporary SE). Ditto 'thi' I see *thi= *'I see thee/you'. My grandparents use it a great deal- they might say '*Thys *been had' as 'You've been had'
> 
> They would also only use it wth family and friends, so it has kept its use as the informal address.
> 
> Without a Northern accent, this usage all sounds distinctly biblical. 'Thou shalt not steal/kill etc...'
> 
> Chris


 
Here is where I read "thys". I really appreciate your help! Do you know what's the meaning of "thar"?


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## Redshade

Hi Girl from Rio.

_Thar_ is the Yorkshire pronunciation of _thy._

My use of thys would be different to Chris1's (I suspect that he is mis-hearing  a thas ).

Thys (pronounced thars) is a hybrid form and means yours.

But beware of foreign dialects. My Victorian grandfathers were born just 3 or 4 miles apart but used many different words and pronunciations from each other.

These things change over time and distance.


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## Scalloper

"Thys" as quoted is "Thou's", a shortening of "Thou has". It would be more likely pronounced "Tha's" - [ðaz] than however it is that we imagine "thys" pronounced


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## Whizbang

girl from rio de janeiro said:


> Do you know what's the meaning of "thar"?


 
I'm from Texas. "Thar" ain't "here" and it certainly ain't "over yonder."

I'm enjoying these forums! It's nice to see usage in other dialects.


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## mplsray

Redshade said:


> Hi Girl from Rio.
> 
> _Thar_ is the Yorkshire pronunciation of _thy._
> 
> My use of thys would be different to Chris1's (I suspect that he is mis-hearing a thas ).
> 
> Thys (pronounced thars) is a hybrid form and means yours.
> 
> But beware of foreign dialects. My Victorian grandfathers were born just 3 or 4 miles apart but used many different words and pronunciations from each other.
> 
> These things change over time and distance.


 

Would _thi_ as shown in your previous example be pronounced /ðiː/ or /ðɪ/? (_Thee _or _thih_ is how I would represent those sounds when using ordinary letters.)


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## Redshade

mplsray said:


> Would _thi_ as shown in your previous example be pronounced /ðiː/ or /ðɪ/? (_Thee _or _thih_ is how I would represent those sounds when using ordinary letters.)


 
I am not really familiar with  IPA? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Push the tongue to front roof of the mouth/behind the upper teeth and sound thi as short or as explosively as you can .


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## Matching Mole

I have to say I'm as confused as anyone, and I spoke Yorkshire dialect (including second person singular) up to the age of about 12.

I think it's worth reiterating what Redshade said about variations. There are numerous variations of Yorkshire dialect and pronunciation, some of which are quite marked, and one need only move 10 or 20 miles to observe them (this is not unique to Yorkshire; in fact I think Lancashire dialects can change even more dramatically). For this reason there may be a certain amount discussion at cross-purposes.

Thee can be pronouced in several ways, even in the same dialect variation, depending on emphasis, position in a sentence and grammatical use. For example tha (like _that_ with out the t), thi (like _this_ without the s) and thee (_these_ without the s). To give some example sentences:

"Give over, thee!" [Stop it, you!]
In this sentence thee is vocative and I would have given it its full value [/ðiː/]
"Where's thi [or tha] bin?" [Where have you been?]
In this case thi is short: /ðɪ/

"Your" in my dialect would be thi (as above):
"Can I borrow thi ruler?" [Can I borrow your ruler?]

We might ofen slip into standard English for "yours". "Thahs" sounds a bit unnatural for me, but "thine" (which might sound a bit like "thaan") would certainly be used by some, and is typical in some variations of the dialect.

Also, the reflexive (yourself) would be "thissen":
"Do it thissen" [Do it yourself]
and:
"I'll do it missen" [I'll do it myself]


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## rodibach

Chris1 said:


> Yes: thee/thou/thy is alive and kicking in the West Riding- much more widespread amongst the over 65s though



I can confirm that thee, thou, thy and thine and the various variations in pronunciation are alive and kicking and used by the under 65s in Yorkshire (at least in the North Riding) and are not used in any religious sense (discussion about the Quakers), although my home is near to a Quaker-built village (Earswick). It is natural for me to use these forms and well as "ye", but outside (of) the area people mock me for this usage as it appears archaic and pretentious to them. With the merging of farms into larger units and the consequent drift away from the land, the influx of immigrants (commuters to York, Leeds and beyond), the social structure of rural life has changed in the last 20 years and the new generation of villagers is beginning to use the southern English "you".
On a similar note, there is also the use of yon meaning that (at a distance), which would give  this, that and yon as demonstrative adjectives corresponding to the archaic (Tuscan) use in Italian "questo, codesto and quello)
Sithee


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## TonyP

Forgive me for resurrecting an oldish thread. I found this Forum and thread when searching for the meaning of a quotation that was on the front of the order of service for a family funeral a few days ago. Very much a traditional Yorkshire, West Riding family.

The quotation was

_Doan't thee tha me. Thee  tha them as tha's thee, an see how tha lahkes it._

The best interpretation I've been able to get is something like

_ Don't say thee to me. Say thee to yourself and see how you like it._

This suggests that the word thee, as in earlier posts about Quaker usage, shouldn't be used as it was too personal.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong. 

Anyway, if someone can interpret it I'd appreciate it.


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## Cagey

Welcome, TonyP,  

The first part I see as you do.  I see the second half as:Say _thee_ to those who say _thou_ to _thee_ [you], and see how thou [you] like it.  
(I first thought of: "and see how _they_ like it", but I don't know whether _tha_ can serve for _they_.  Whether this makes more or less sense depends on who "they" are.)​Yes, the Quakers' refusal to use the more formal "you" when addressing their betters got them into trouble.


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## mplsray

TonyP said:


> Forgive me for resurrecting an oldish thread. I found this Forum and thread when searching for the meaning of a quotation that was on the front of the order of service for a family funeral a few days ago. Very much a traditional Yorkshire, West Riding family.
> 
> The quotation was
> 
> _Doan't thee tha me. Thee  tha them as tha's thee, an see how tha lahkes it._
> 
> The best interpretation I've been able to get is something like
> 
> _ Don't say thee to me. Say thee to yourself and see how you like it._
> 
> This suggests that the word thee, as in earlier posts about Quaker usage, shouldn't be used as it was too personal.
> 
> Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
> 
> Anyway, if someone can interpret it I'd appreciate it.



Here is an entry from _A Dictionary of Catch Phrases: British and American, from the Sixteenth Century to the Present Day,_ 2nd ed., 1986, by Eric Partridge and Paul Beale, presumably a version of the same expression: 



> *doan't tha thee-tha me! Thee-tha thasen an' see 'ow tha likes it!* A 'jocular assumption of dignity from one Yorkshireman to another; protesting need of the dignified distance and respect of "you"' (L.A., 1974): mostly Yorkshire since the 1920s.



Addition: It turns out that _thasen_ means _thyself!_ which makes me wonder if this version is a parody form of an earlier version which was more serious.


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## ewie

TonyP said:


> _Doan't thee tha me. Thee  tha them as tha's thee, an see how tha lahkes it._


Don't address me as _tha_.  You only address as _tha_ people who address you as _tha_, and see how you like it

EDIT: oops, I've more or less parroted what Cagey said ... sorry

Welcome to the forum, Tony


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## TonyP

This is absolutely fantastic, I'm really grateful. I can now go back to one of my elderly relatives, also West Riding, and tell him the meaning. He admitted he didn't know it, hence my search which resulted in finding this Forum.


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## Beery

Panpan said:


> Hope you don't mind me correcting your tyke dialect
> 
> (Tha's = Thou is = You are)
> 
> Panpan



I had to chip in on this - just saw it, so I'm sorry if it's an older thread but I couldn't resist.

In Yorkshire dialect, "tha's" also equates to "thou hast" - i.e. "Tha's had enough beer tonight". "You are" is usually '"thart" (thou art). Yorkshire dialect is actually always grammatically correct when spoken properly by someone who knows the grammar intuitively - especially when used by those over 40. The younger folk, it seems, tend to be losing the correct forms.

I was born and brought up in Sheffield in the early '60s in a family that still used the proper old style pronunciation, so although I don't know the fancy words for grammar (personal pronoun, nominative etc.) I know what sounds right and what sounds wrong, and "thou is" definitely seems wrong to me.

Perhaps these days folks say "is tha going..." instead of "art tha going...". Either way, one's grammatically correct and the other is a load of bollocks that sounds like a Southerner or an American Quaker (they tend to use "thee" for everything) messing it up.

In Sheffield the old timers also use "you" when addressing more than one person, but it sounds more like "yor" - i.e. "What are yor pair up to nah?" (What are you two doing now?}


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