# moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai



## LMTL

Can anyone help me separate and understand this phrase

moshikashitar, watashiha anattawo sukininatteshimaukamoshirenai....

I am having a hard time seperating words...


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## karuna

LMTL said:


> Can anyone help me separate and understand this phrase
> 
> moshikashitar, watashiha anattawo sukininatteshimaukamoshirenai....
> 
> I am having a hard time seperating words...


 
moshi kashitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai...

My Japanese is not strong enough but something along the lines
if ???, perhaps I would stop liking you.


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## SpiceMan

LMTL said:


> Can anyone help me separate and understand this phrase
> 
> moshikashitar, watashiha anattawo sukininatteshimaukamoshirenai....
> 
> I am having a hard time seperating words...


Perhaps, I may end up loving you 
or 
Perhaps, I may become fond of you

depends on context.


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## Anatoli

It could be "moshi *kashitara* watashi-wa anatta-*ga* suki-ni natte shimau kamo shirenai" ... もし貸したら私はあなたが好きになってしまうかもしれない

If you lend me (object is not mentioned), maybe I will like/love you (start liking you) (= fall in love with you)

moshi ... tara - "if" construct 
kasu -> kasimasu -> kasi-tara - to lend
watashi-wa - I (subject) - letter は (ha) is pronounced as wa in this case
anatta-ga - you (object of liking)
suki-ni natte shimau - start liking
       watashi-_wa_ anata-_ga_ suki desu- I like/love you
   IMHO, it should be "ga", not "o" particle.
       suki-ni naru - start liking
       shimau - here it means the completion of action, doesn't need
                   to be translated
kamo shirenai - maybe


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## sneeka2

Anatoli said:


> moshi ... tara - "if" construct
> kasu -> kasimasu -> kasi-tara - to lend



I beg to differ. This doesn't have anything to do with lending. 若しかしたら (もしかしたら/moshikashitara) is a set phrase meaning "perhaps; maybe; by some chance".

I also think あなた*を* (anata *o*) is perfectly fine. It doesn't need the added emphisys of が (ga). It might actually be wrong to use が, but I'm not sure, I always get confused by particles...


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## Anatoli

Yes, you're right. Agree with the first - moshikashitara (in combination with kamoshirenai), although it can also mean if you lend in a context.

As for - "suki da/desu" it requires a -ga particle. Grammatically "suki-na" is an adjective (suki-na kudamono - favourite fruit), same with kirai (dislike), jouzu (good at), heta (bad at), etc. kare-wa nihongo-ga heta da - he is bad at Japanese.

watashi-wa aisukuriimu-ga suki desu.
as for me (-wa) (it is icecream - ga) icecream, which is favourite (=suki desu). "suki" doesn't take an object particle (-o)


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## SpiceMan

Suki doesn't always require ga as particle. And suki ni naru with wo is a rather common construction, even more than "ga suki ni naru".

You can check this with google: 
ga suki ni naru (557,000 hits)
wo suki ni naru (1,190,000 hits)

I think the tendency is to use "ga" when talking about something in general: onna ga suki ni natta, doubutsuen de doubutsu ga suki ni natta, and "wo" when talking about something that is one of a kind, as for example, a particular human being: [someone] wo suki ni natta, jibun wo suki ni narimashou!. 

However that is not to say that these previous sentences *are* to be said with wo, and that is not possible to say them with ga (nor the ga ones with wo). As I said, this is some kind of tendency I noticed from japanese speakers. Also I cannot grasp the nuance difference (if there's one at all).

Cannot back this up with grammar, I leave that part to Modereetaa Flaminus and his ilk 



Anatoli said:


> It could be "moshi *kashitara* watashi-wa anatta-*ga* suki-ni natte shimau kamo shirenai" ... もし貸したら私はあなたが好きになってしまうかもしれない


No, thats moshika suru. 

What you say is not an impossible sentence structure, but I think in that kind of situations it would turn out into something like "kashite kuretara".


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## sneeka2

SpiceMan said:


> Also I cannot grasp the nuance difference (if there's one at all).



が really simply adds emphasis.

あなた*を*好きです。 - I like you.
あなた*が*好きです。 - I like *you*. (You, and not that other person.)

Sometimes it makes a big difference, sometimes it doesn't.


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## LMTL

THANKS EVERYONE...I see it is not always easy for anyone!!!


THANKS AGAIN


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## Anatoli

Thanks all, you got me there


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## Aoyama

*moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai : *it may well be that I'll end up loving you [who knows ?].
 Sneeka2 is right, nothing to do, here, whatsoever, with *kasu* (to lend).
*moshika shitara* (sometimes followed by *kamoshirenai *at the end of the phrase for more emphasis) =_ it may well be, it could be, it may happen that ..._


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## gaer

Aoyama said:


> *moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai : *it may well be that I'll end up loving you [who knows ?].
> Sneeka2 is right, nothing to do, here, whatsoever, with *kasu* (to lend).
> *moshika shitara* (sometimes followed by *kamoshirenai *at the end of the phrase for more emphasis) =_ it may well be, it could be, it may happen that ..._


Is this correct?

若しかしたら、私はあなたを好きになってしまうかも知れない。

I have two questions:

1) しまう、what does that mean or add in this sentence? I think I know, but I may be wrong.

2) かも、are these two particles following each other? How do they work together? Is this mostly for emphasis?

Gaer


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## SpiceMan

0) 若しかしたら　is usually written in kana. 
1) to end up, to finish up, to do something completely. 食べてしまった！　I ended up eating it! (kinda like "oops! I ate it all!"). It's too dangerous! You'll end up dying! 危険すぎ！死んでしまうよ！

しまう in past tense (しまった！) is also used kinda like "f**k!" / "I screwed up!", eg: when noticing that you forgot your passport just after hearing the last boarding call. (of course, there's no cursing nuance in this)

2) かも is usually followed by しれない/しれません.

箕面の滝に行ったら、サルが見えるかもしれない
if you go to the fall of minoo, you might see monkeys (monkeys are usually  around the minoo park, but you can't be 100% positive that the person you're talking to WILL see one).

I'm not sure, but I'll tell you the "logic" I used to think this kind of expressions when I was studying japanese.
for instance, you can say "I don't know if he'll come" like this:
かれが来るかわからない
however, by saying so, you're eliding the topic marker wa
the complete sentence would be:
かれが来るか*は*わからない

you turn the previous concept(s) into one block with ka and make it the topic with wa. かも知れない is just the same kind of construction, in my opinion. 

It's worth noting that the kamo binding particles combination is so linked to shirenai that in a casual chat you would just say kamo, leaving shirenai implicit.

明日雨がふらないかも maybe it won't rain tomorrow.


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## Aoyama

*moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai : *it may well be that I'll end up loving/liking you [who knows ?].
Like may be better...


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## Aoyama

*It's worth noting that the kamo binding particles combination is so linked to shirenai that in a casual chat you would just say kamo, leaving shirenai implicit*.
  Very true.
   You may also have *so kamo (shirenai)* = could be, might be that, it's likely .


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## s_a_n_t_i

Let's remember that しまう can also mean something that caused us problems, and it implies a very strong meaning of disillusionment（不本意）.


Santi.


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## Flaminius

Santi, しまう can oftentimes be used in sense of unwillingness and connotes disillusionment or disapproval when denoting something which as been already happened (てしまった).  Here, I would suggest 好きになってしまう implies involuntariness (非随意), which, though similar to unwillingness, does not necessarily mean that the speaker is against the way things (here, his own emotion) are unfolding.

Flam,
who is glad to see you again.


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## s_a_n_t_i

Oh I got it. She/He is not against that, but maybe is afraid to become attracted, or doesn't really want to, but his/her emotions are stronger than his self restraint... Sort of. （笑）
By the way, is 非随意 the same as 不随意？

Santi,
Whose PC's screen broke down and was off for 2 days 
ただいまぁ♪


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## Flaminius

Well, not sort of.  I think you hit the nail on the head.

By the way, 不随意 and 非随意 are both involuntary but according to a Google search;
不随意 vs. 非随意 = 466,000 : 28,000.


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## gaer

SpiceMan said:


> 0) 若しかしたら　is usually written in kana.


I see that is is sometimes written with kanji, but only a small percentage of the time. Thank you for letting me know.


> 1) to end up, to finish up, to do something completely. 食べてしまった！　I ended up eating it! (kinda like "oops! I ate it all!"). It's too dangerous! You'll end up dying! 危険すぎ！死んでしまうよ！


I understand 危険. Danger. It is dangerous. きけん。With すぎ on the end, does that mean "too dangerous"? Is this something that can be added to many words? I found several words that mean things like "important" that often have the form: ___すぐだね。

This I understand now: 死んでしまうよ！


> しまう in past tense (しまった！) is also used kinda like "f**k!" / "I screwed up!", eg: when noticing that you forgot your passport just after hearing the last boarding call. (of course, there's no cursing nuance in this)


I understand. 


> 2) かも is usually followed by しれない/しれません.


I did not know this, but now I do. In fact, if you do a search for かもし、かもしれない seems to come up most frequently.


> 箕面の滝に行ったら、サルが見えるかもしれない
> if you go to the fall of minoo, you might see monkeys (monkeys are usually around the minoo park, but you can't be 100% positive that the person you're talking to WILL see one).


I understand.


> It's worth noting that the kamo binding particles combination is so linked to shirenai that in a casual chat you would just say kamo, leaving shirenai implicit.
> 
> 明日雨がふらないかも maybe it won't rain tomorrow.


Excellent. All these explanations were very helpful. Many thanks!

Gaer


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## SpiceMan

gaer said:


> I understand 危険. Danger. It is dangerous. きけん。With すぎ on the end, does that mean "too dangerous"? Is this something that can be added to many words? I found several words that mean things like "important" that often have the form: ___すぐだね。


sugi is the stem of 過ぎる (beyond, to exceed, way too [something])

Some examples:
-　飲みすぎじゃないですか！　帰りましょうか (you drank too much, haven't you? let's go back home)
- 寝すぎた　(I overslept)
- 相手は強すぎ！　ぜったい負ける！　(his rival is too strong! he'll lose for sure!)


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