# iflas edince + Oink oink (how do pigs sound?)



## rupertbrooke

In this cartoon by Izğit Özgür ( http://www.karikaturbul.com/664) what does iflas edince mean? In its context it must mean 'when you become bankrupt, I was an ordinary person.....' but isn't this an abrupt & ungrammatical change of subject? What does -ce, -ca mean in combination with verbs? My grammars don't seem to offer any help.


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## Rallino

Hello Rupert,
Which part have you translated as _I was an ordinary person_?

_İflas edince herkes gibi sıradan biri oldun_.
When you went bankrupt, you've become an ordinary person like everyone (else).

_----

_That said, I should mention that a change of grammatical subject is not impossible even if you have -ce:
_Rupert gelince, gidebilirsiniz. _(You can go when Rupert comes)

Just to give you a heads-up for future reference.


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## rupertbrooke

Thanks so much, Rallino. I had mistakenly read 'oldun' as 'oldum'. Can you explain this use of -ce/-ca? It is common but in none of my grammars. I love Izğit Özgür's cartoons!


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## Rallino

Sure. The suffix _-ince_ can be translated as _once_ or _when_. It's invariable, i.e., you don't conjugate it. But if you need to specify the subject, just put it before -ince:
_Ben gelince (when I've come, once I'm there etc._)
_Sen gelince
Siz gelince
etc.

_By the way, when you see _olmak_ in past tense, it's most probably not used in the meaning of _was/were_, but rather _became/have become:
_Zengindi = He was rich
Zengin oldu = He became / He's become rich

Does that help?

P.S.: It's **Yi*ğit Özgür.


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## rupertbrooke

Thanks, Rallino. If I were being dishonest. I would say that Izğit was a typo; I knew it was wrong but I had forgotten the correct spelling. Of course, Izğit ıs impossible as a spelling. Thanks for the grammatical information. Very helpful. 
I found ancalimon's mention of the taboo on being unable to write the sound the pig makes as fascinating but sorry for the long excursus. I'm not sure I still completely understand what he means!


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## Rallino

I think taboo is a strong word. It's just people usually go "ewww pork" when they see it served as a dish. It's not like they don't talk about it, which is what taboo is, right? When people avoid talking about it. It's not the case.

About writing the sound the pig makes... Well... the thing is, there is no established sound for it like there is for a cat's meowing _(miyav).

_It's as if I asked you to spell out in English the sound a whale or a giraffe makes. We just don't have a word for that sound. And in all honesty, I don't think "oink" is an accurate way to represent the sound the pig makes at all. 

But we're going a bit off-topic here.


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## rupertbrooke

Just for completion's sake (before you either transfer it to Pigs & Sucks?? or delete it entirely), here is a complete pig list:-

In Britain, Spain, and Italy, pigs are thought to say 'oink, oink'.
Portuguese pigs go 'ronc'. 
Japan, they go 'buu, buu'. 
French pigs go 'groin, groin'. In fact, one of the French pig organisations is called Groin Groin.
German pigs, in contrast, go 'grunz'. 
Mandarin Chinese pigs say 'Zhu' and in Cantonese, 'Jul' 
South Africa, Africaans pigs say 'snork'. 
Polish pigs go 'chrum, chrum'.
The largest pork exporter, Denmark, has pigs that go 'øf-øf'. 
The Netherlands' pigs go 'knor, knor' (NL is the second largest pork exporter). 
Finnish and Swedish pigs say 'nöff, nöff'. 
Russian Pigs go 'hrgu, hrgu'. 
In Lithuania say 'kriu-kriu'. 
Turkish pigs don't say 'hoink, hoink'. They much more persuasively say *öğrn, öğrn/hörnk hörnk.* Türk bir domuz homurdanır veya ara sıra ciyak ciyak dersi!!? 
Jogoslav/Serbo Croat pigs just say 'Hrrrrrr'. 
So, which is the nearest? The French typically reckon they are the best. Their pronunciation in the IPA is : /ɡʁwɛ̃/. I will work on the giraffe & the whale....


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## Rallino

Oops, sorry for the late reply.

The Turkish suggestion _öğrn_ _öğrn..._ hmm... Well, I guess that would do the trick, but without context, it would never make me think of pigs. It's actually also usable as an onomatopoeic word for vomitting, methinks.

I have to say, I liked the South African *snork snork*. I think I'm going to use that one from now on.


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