# I don't think I would have done it even if I could.



## Neutrino

"I don't think I would have done it even if I could."

"Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se avevo potuto."

This is my best effort 
Please make comments!


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## whitewitch

Neutrino said:


> "I don't think I would have done it even if I could."
> Ciao Neutrino,
> "avevo" è sbagliato. "avessi" è giusto.
> "Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se avevo avessi potuto."
> 
> 
> W.W.


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## Neutrino

Thank you!
But I don't understand why you can't use "avevo".
Does the form "avessi" have something to do with the "credo che" ?


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## Snowman75

Neutrino said:


> Thank you!
> But I don't understand why you can't use "avevo".
> Does the form "avessi" have something to do with the "credo che" ?


"avessi potuto" is a subjunctive form. It's used in this case because of the "if" clause, talking about a hypothetical situation, "if I could"


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## whitewitch

Neutrino said:


> Thank you!
> But I don't understand why you can't use "avevo".
> Does the form "avessi" have something to do with the "credo che" ?


 
Sorry Neutrino,
I am not able to explain grammar rules: I forgot them.
Maybe someone cleverer than me can give you an answer.
W.W.


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## JasonNPato

whitewitch said:


> Neutrino said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I don't think I would have done it even if I could."
> Ciao Neutrino,
> "avevo" è sbagliato. "avessi" è giusto.
> "Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se avevo avessi potuto."
> 
> 
> W.W.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was taught (by a native italian teacher who does not speak English) that you do not need the subjunctive after "anche se".
> After benche`, etc. yes, but not after anche se.
> 
> Was I taught wrong?
Click to expand...


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## Snowman75

JasonNPato said:


> whitewitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was taught (by a native italian teacher who does not speak English) that you do not need the subjunctive after "anche se".
> After benche`, etc. yes, but not after anche se.
> 
> Was I taught wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert, but I'll have a go at an explanation and the natives can confirm or deny:
> 
> It depends on the context. I'll use "se" to demonstrate, because I think it works exactly the same as "anche se". If you're talking about a strictly hypothetical situation, you use the subjunctive:
> 
> *"If I opened my eyes I would see"*
> *"se io aprissi gli occhi vedrei"*
> 
> If you're talking about something that is actually likely to happen, you use the indicative:
> 
> *"If I open my eyes I will see"*
> *"se apro gli occhi vedrò"*
> 
> Note that for this sort of sentence, English uses the subjunctive exactly the same way Italian does - the only problem is you don't notice because the subjunctive is (almost) always identical to one of the other tenses. In this case the past tense ("I opened").
Click to expand...


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## Alxmrphi

Well, I thought, here, the subjunctive was used because of "credo che".. because the conditional "overrides" the subjunctive, so it is used in the next verb..

Is it true that you don't use the subjunctive after "anche se", I'd like to know too.


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## Snowman75

Alex_Murphy said:


> Well, I thought, here, the subjunctive was used because of "credo che".. because the conditional "overrides" the subjunctive, so it is used in the next verb..
> 
> Is it true that you don't use the subjunctive after "anche se", I'd like to know too.


Even without the "credo che", you would still use the subjunctive:

*"Non lo avrei fatto anche se avessi potuto"*

Edit: Compare: *"Non lo farò anche se posso"*


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## Paulfromitaly

Snowman75 said:


> JasonNPato said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert, but I'll have a go at an explanation and the natives can confirm or deny:
> 
> It depends on the context. I'll use "se" to demonstrate, because I think it works exactly the same as "anche se". If you're talking about a strictly hypothetical situation, you use the subjunctive:
> 
> *"If I opened my eyes I would see"*
> *"se io aprissi gli occhi vedrei"*
> 
> If you're talking about something that is actually likely to happen, you use the indicative:
> 
> *"If I open my eyes I will see"*
> *"se apro gli occhi vedrò"*
> 
> Note that for this sort of sentence, English uses the subjunctive exactly the same way Italian does - the only problem is you don't notice because the subjunctive is (almost) always identical to one of the other tenses. In this case the past tense ("I opened").
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.
> 
> _Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se *avessi* avevo potuto_, always...
> 
> It's not true , however , that you always have to use the subjunctive with *se*: you  can use *se* with the  conditional like in this example:
> 
> Ho visto Carla passare e non l'ho salutata, anche se *avrei *pututo farlo.
Click to expand...


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## Snowman75

Paulfromitaly said:


> Snowman75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.
> 
> _Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se *avessi* avevo potuto_, always...
> 
> It's not true , however , that you always have to use the subjunctive with *se*: you can use *se* with the conditional like in this example:
> 
> Ho visto Carla passare e non l'ho salutata, anche se *avrei *pututo farlo.
> 
> 
> 
> Or even:
> 
> *"Non credo che tu lo abbia fatto anche se avevi potuto"*
> *"I don't think you did it, even though you were able"*
Click to expand...


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## Paulfromitaly

Snowman75 said:


> Paulfromitaly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or even:
> 
> *"Non credo che tu lo abbia fatto anche se avevi avresti potuto"*
> *"I don't think you did it, even though you were able"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You used the past subjunctive in English (were), but you need to use the conditional in Italian .
Click to expand...


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## Isapaola

Neutrino, I think I got lost in so many different rules and suggestions, all made to help you but sometimes it's better to have just a few reliable rules.
Your Italian teacher was right in a sense to tell you that you are not obliged to use the subjunctive after _anche se_.
I'll try to explain: 
The subjunctive mode is the mode of the unreal. Moreover, there are two English forms (or ever more) to translate _anche se_: 
_even if_ (which suggests an unreal situation) and is followed by the subjunctive.
I am a woman and I can say:_ Even if I were a man_,(which I am not)_ I_ _wouldn't behave like that_. _Anche se fossi un uomo_, non mi comporterei così.
_even though/_ or often also _even if_  (when it covers a real situation) and is followed by the indicative (the mode of the real)
_Even though I am a woman,_ I am strong enough to do that.
_Anche se sono_ una donna, sono abbastanza forte per farlo.

So I would have translated your even if I could (in my opinion better even though I could) with anche se potevo.
Otherwise the sentence should have been _even if I could have done it_/ _evn if I had been able to_ and the translation would be: _anche se avrei potuto_
I hope it helps.


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## Nate in California

> sometimes it's better to have just a few reliable rules.


 
I agree with this and therefore...



> I would have translated your even if I could (in my opinion better even though I could) with anche se potevo.



This is colloquial (spoken Italian) usage and, unless there's something I'm missing, it's technically incorrect. The subjunctive should be used (anche se avessi potuto).


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## Paulfromitaly

Isapaola said:


> Neutrino, I think I got lost in so many different rules and suggestions, all made to help you but sometimes it's better to have just a few reliable rules.
> Your Italian teacher was right in a sense to tell you that you are not obliged to use the subjunctive after _anche se_.
> I'll try to explain:
> The subjunctive mode is the mode of the unreal. Moreover, there are two English forms (or ever more) to translate _anche se_:
> _even if_ (which suggests an unreal situation) and is followed by the subjunctive.
> I am a woman and I can say:_ Even if I were a man_,(which I am not)_ I_ _wouldn't behave like that_. _Anche se fossi un uomo_, non mi comporterei così.
> _even though/_ or often also _even if_  (when it covers a real situation) and is followed by the indicative (the mode of the real)
> _Even though I am a woman,_ I am strong enough to do that.
> _Anche se sono_ una donna, sono abbastanza forte per farlo.
> 
> So I would have translated your even if I could (in my opinion better even though I could) with anche se potevo.
> Otherwise the sentence should have been _even if I could have done it_/ _evn if I had been able to_ and the translation would be: _anche se avrei potuto_
> I hope it helps.



La tua teoria mi sembra corretta, ma non concordo con la tua traduzione:
Non è semplicemente "even if I could", ma " I dont think I would have done it even if I could.", quindi se traduci "non penso che l'avrei fatto", l'unica frase che si lega correttamente è "anche se avessi potuto".
Il problema è che forse lei (lui) non ha tradotto al meglio quello che ha pensato dallo Svedese all'Inglese, quindi la sua frase in Inglese è un po' ambigua.


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## Isapaola

Paulfromitaly, avevo postato una risposta che non è comparsa, forse per un mio errore di invio. Cerco di ricostruirla.
Hai ragione quando dici che che _anche se avessi potuto_ è l'unica frase che lega correttamente. Però è proprio _anche se_ che può condurre a sue interpretazioni.
Potrei aiutarlo, ma non faccio I could help him, but I don't do that
Avrei potuto aiutarlo, ma non l'ho fatto.
Non lo avrei fatto_ anche se avrei potuto farlo_ è diverso da _anche se_ _avessi potuto farlo_, proprio per quella interpretazione diversa di *anche se.*
Lo so che questo può sembrare un divertissment per italiani, e può risultare addirittura pericoloso per gli stranieri a cui ripetiamo che dopo *se* ci vuole il congiuntivo e non il condizionale, ma che ne facciamo dell'_anche_ _se _concessivo?
Anche se sarei più felice là, me ne sto qui. *Non è* _anche se fossi più felice_ _là,_ o no?
Beh, lo sai che mi piace scatenare i brainstorming, forse è solo una scusa per dissertare un po'....
Comunque a me  quella frase con un could sospeso, non piace per niente. Accettando la tua tesi (ma mi diverte polemizzare in modo stimolante) could è un condizionale semplice (o imperfetto congiuntivo o indicativo) e quindi come possiamo tradurlo con avessi potuto?
Ora devo andare purtroppo: spero di continuare domani!


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## Paulfromitaly

Hai ragione che quel _could_ suona male..come ho detto prima, il peccato originale è la cattiva traduzione in Inglese..


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## Snowman75

This thread is getting really interesting.

In English, there is a difference between "even if" and "even though" - strictly speaking you can never substitute one for the other without changing the meaning.

Here's an example that demonstrates the difference:

1. *"I couldn't lift it even though I tried."*
2. *"I couldn't lift it even if I tried."*

In (1) you are saying that you *did try* but you were not able to lift it.
In (2) you are saying that you *have not tried*, but *if* you did try then
you would still not be able to lift it.

In Italian this difference is expressed using different tenses. I'll
do my best to translate the above into Italian but I'm sure it will
need corrections:

1. *"Non ho riuscito ad alzarlo anche se l'ho provato."*
2. *"Non riuscirei ad alzarlo anche se lo provassi."*

Edit: Paulfromitaly, the original sentence is not ambiguous. It means *"I don't think I would have done it even if I were able."*


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## uinni

Ciao.


Snowman75 said:


> In English, there is a difference between "even if" and "even though" - strictly speaking you can never substitute one for the other without changing the meaning.
> 
> Here's an example that demonstrates the difference:
> 
> 1. *"I couldn't lift it even though I tried."*
> 2. *"I couldn't lift it even if I tried."*
> 
> In (1) you are saying that you *did try* but you were not able to lift it.
> In (2) you are saying that you *have not tried*, but *if* you did try then
> you would still not be able to lift it.
> 
> In Italian this difference is expressed using different tenses. I'll
> do my best to translate the above into Italian but I'm sure it will
> need corrections:
> 
> 1. *"Non sono riuscito ad alzarlo {anche se/sebbene} ci ho/abbia provato". *[abbia has to be used with "sebbene"]
> 2. *"Non riuscirei ad alzarlo anche se ci provassi".*


 
But also English uses two different tenses!
The fact is that they "coincide" (apart from the verb "to be"...)

1. *"I couldn't lift it even though I was strong."*
2. *"I couldn't lift it even if I were strong."*

It is easier if you translate 
even though = sebbene/nonostante/quantunque/benché/...
even if = anche se


Uinni


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## Paulfromitaly

Snowman75 said:


> This thread is getting really interesting.
> 
> In English, there is a difference between "even if" and "even though" - strictly speaking you can never substitute one for the other without changing the meaning.
> 
> Here's an example that demonstrates the difference:
> 
> 1. *"I couldn't lift it even though I tried."*
> 2. *"I couldn't lift it even if I tried."*
> 
> In (1) you are saying that you *did try* but you were not able to lift it.
> In (2) you are saying that you *have not tried*, but *if* you did try then
> you would still not be able to lift it.
> 
> In Italian this difference is expressed using different tenses. I'll
> do my best to translate the above into Italian but I'm sure it will
> need corrections:
> 
> 1. *"Non ho sono riuscito ad alzarlo anche se l'ho provato."*
> 2. *"Non riuscirei ad alzarlo anche se lo provassi."*
> 
> Edit: Paulfromitaly, the original sentence is not ambiguous. It means *"I don't think I would have done it even if I were able."*



You can translate "even though" with *sebbene* and therefore avoiding any misunderstanding:

*Non sono riuscito ad alzarlo sebbene io abbia provato.*


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## Snowman75

uinni said:


> Ciao.
> 
> 
> But also English uses two different tenses!
> The fact is that they "coincide" (apart from the verb "to be"...)


Yes, I know. That's why I chose this particular example - so that the only difference in the sentence was the single word "if/though". Actually both verbs are in different tenses in both English and Italian:

1. *"I was not able to lift it even though I was strong."*
2. *"I would not be able to lift it even if I were strong."*

Is there a reason why you changed "l'ho" to "ci ho" in the first sentence, but left "lo provassi" in the second? Or did you just miss it?


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## uinni

Snowman75 said:


> Yes, I know. That's why I chose this particular example - so that the only difference in the sentence was the single word "if/though". Actually both verbs are in different tenses in both English and Italian:
> 
> 1. *"I was not able to lift it even though I was strong."*
> 2. *"I would not be able to lift it even if I were strong."*
> 
> Is there a reason why you changed "l'ho" to "ci ho" in the first sentence, but left "lo provassi" in the second? Or did you just miss it?


 
Just too heedless!  

Sorry I have carefully amended my post now (even corrected the usage of dots!   )

Uinni


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## giacinta

I would translate it " Non credo che lo avrei fatto, anche se avessi potuto farlo" but now I am worried!
If the subject is the same after ' non credo ..." don't you use the infinitive  --??
Non credo di averlo fatto--although the meaning is different.  

Or is there an exception to this rule??  Wiley's Italian-a self-teaching guide states:
"if the subject of the verb in the main clause and the subject of the verb in the dependent clause are the same, the infinitive is used instead of the subjunctive.  One example given is :
 Lei crede di avere visto Marco. She believes she saw Marco.

Giacinta


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## lsp

Giacinta , it is the infinitive in the first case, but not with the conditional in the second case:

Non credo di averlo fatto
I don't think I did it

Non credo che lo avrei fatto
I don't think I would have done it


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## brian

Ciao,

Here's a question that may or may not appeal to strict grammatical correctness.  I read the English in two ways, both of which make sense to me (though one may be more standard, especially in writing, than the other).  The problem is that the "even if I could" brings on an ellipsis that can be filled in in the following two ways:

1) _I don't think I would have done it even if I could (have done it). = ...even if I *were able* to have done it.
_
2)_ I don't think I would have done it even if I could (do it). = even if I *were able *to do it._

Notice that both use the subjunctive in English.  Number 1 seems to be the more standard conception of the ellipsis (in my opinion), though number two is quite possible as well.  Now here is the way that I would have written the English, which I believe is the most correct way, but which is an interpretation that I don't think the original English allows for:

3) _I don't think I would have done it even if I *had been able* to do it._

This preserves the traditional _had...would have_ standardization of English conditional clauses.

So now my question.  It seems the _...avessi potuto_ Italian translation follows the (in my opinion more correct) number 3 English version.  So that's a good thing, grammatically speaking.  But would it be possible to translate it into Italian as:

_Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se *potessi*.

_If indeed this is possible, would the construction also have the two similar interpretations of _potessi averlo fatto_ and _potessi farlo_?  If it is not possible, could one add _averlo fatto_ or _farlo_ so that it would make sense?

Again, by "possible" I do not mean adhering strictly to grammatical correctness but rather to what one might hear in conversation.

One more note: I think number 2 is a perfectly grammatically acceptable sentence in English, but I think the intention was number 3; if, however, the intention was number 2, then I don't think _avessi potuto_ works.

Ok that is all. 


b...


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## giacinta

lsp said:


> Giacinta , it is the infinitive in the first case, but not with the conditional in the second case:
> 
> Non credo di averlo fatto
> I don't think I did it
> 
> Non credo che lo avrei fatto
> I don't think I would have done it




 I understand this.  I am wondering about THE RULE.  Is there an exception to the rule when one is talking about the conditional past?  I can't find it in any of my grammar books which all state the rule as I  have quoted from Wileys.   I know the meaning is different.  I just wondered if there were another way to use the infinitive (to comply with the rule) and to express the same meaning or can you only convey the same meaning by using the past conditional.

Giacinta


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## Emily B

for *Nate in California* (and Isapaola): yes "anche se potevo" is colloquial (spoken Italian) usage, and yes, it's technically incorrect.

for *Neutrino*: the translation dipends on the meaning:

-if you want to say:

I don't think I would have done it even though (if) I could have done it

the translation will be:

Non penso che l'avrei fatto* anche se avrei potuto*.

-if you want to say:

I don't think I would have done it even if I had been able to do it

the translation will be:

Non penso che l'avrei fatto *anche se avessi potuto*


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## moodywop

Wow, this is one of those cases where native/non-native cooperation is essential. It's also one of those usage issues that learners don't find covered in textbooks and natives like me, who usually sort it out by saying aloud the various options and matching them to different contexts, end up with a massive headache 

A few points:

1. Like Paul, I find the original sentence a bit odd. I would have expected a "could have" at the end, esp. in BE. But Brian tells us the "could" is fine on its own.

2. Brian, I'm a bit confused. First you say that:



> Now here is the way that I would have written the English, which I believe is the most correct way, but which is an interpretation that I don't think the original English allows for:
> 
> 3) _I don't think I would have done it even if I *had been able* to do it._


This is why I expected to see "could have", not just "could".

But then you say:



> I think the intention was number 3


By the way:



> But would it be possible to translate it into Italian as:
> 
> _Non credo che lo avrei fatto anche se *potessi*. _
> 
> If indeed this is possible, would the construction also have the two similar interpretations of _potessi averlo fatto _and _potessi farlo_? If it is not possible, could one add _averlo fatto _or _farlo _so that it would make sense?


To me the first two sound odd and unacceptable. I didn't tick the third one (potessi) because it's theoretically possible but sounds odd to me. I would say "anche se fossi in grado di farlo" instead. This introduces a nuance.
Using "fossi" instead of "fossi stato" emphasizes you are referring to a general ability of yours that you possessed at that time and still possess now - e.g. your proficiency in a foreign language, which is unlikely to have changed since you were in that situation, not unless you developed Alzheimer's.
Compare:

*If I spoke good German I would have been able to apply for that job. I'll enroll for a German course tomorrow!*

*Se parlassi bene il tedesco avrei potuto fare domanda per quel lavoro. Mi iscrivo/iscriverò a un corso di tedesco domani stesso!*

Here "spoke" refers to an ability that takes years to develop. You couldn't speak German back then nor can you now.

But:

*If I had spoken to him in German the others might have thought I didn't want them to understand what I was saying (so I didn't)*

*Se gli avessi parlato in tedesco gli altri avrebbero potuto pensare che non volessi che capissero quello che stavo dicendo*

Here I'm referring to something I didn't do - not to an ability I possessed and still possess, so the past perfect is required in both languages.

This hairsplitting is all very interesting but at the end of the day the best thing is always to list the various sentences I would use in real life and the corresponding nuances.

Context: he wanted me to "raccomandare" (see "thread" on "la bella figura" and string-pulling in Italy ) him. (I have good connections, but not powerful enough to get him the job as EU translator - maybe I could get him a job as subtitle translator at RAI at the most):

*Non penso che l'avrei aiutato nemmeno se avessi potuto/mi fosse stato possibile/ne fossi stato in grado*

*I don't think I would have helped him even if I had been able to*

"Anche se" would be fine but I prefer "nemmeno" here - it's stronger.

Technically, since my political connections are still there today, I could use "se ne fossi in grado" but my native ear is not keen on it: it makes sense logically but my native ear and logic don't see eye to eye here.

With "nemmeno" the meaning is sort of "even in the unlikely event that my connections had been good enough". 

Using the past condinditional with "anche se" changes the meaning to "although I could indeed have done so " [this "so" is BE, right?]. I had the political power but my conscience stopped me from helping an inept candidate from getting the job instead of a better candidate [sadly, this kind of conscience is almost inexistent in Italy - again, please take a look at Severgnini's remark on the flawed ethical sense of many Italians in the "bella figura thread at CD (language and culture in the anthropological sense often go hand in hand)].

This is all I can manage at this early hour. I'm sure Brian will have more questions and - as always - I welcome and cherish them. I wish more English learners were happy to delve into the intricacies of advanced usage. I see we have a great new contributor - snowman75. Welcome, snowman! We need more like you - or at least I do.


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## brian

Carlo,

Thanks for the response.  I agree that the nuanced difference between the two tenses (in both languages) deals primarily with a generalized or a specific ability--that is, whether it (as you say), "emphasizes [that] you are referring to a general ability of yours that you possessed at that time and still possess now," or even a lack of ability of course.

The confusion in the English was a result of our synonymical uses of _can_ and _be able_ and their various forms.  I wasn't thinking that _...even if I could have done it = ...even if I *had been* able to do it.  _The problem is that as a native English speaker I've never properly learned how to transform between _can/could_ and _am able/were able/would be able/etc._  Here's what I was thinking:

_If I *could* do it, I would. = If I *were* able to do it, I would._

 _If I *could *have done it, I would have. = If I *were* able to have done it, I would have._

The problem here (the latter sentence) is that _were able_ refers to a present ability, while _to have done it_ refers to a past action.  How can one have a present ability to do a past action?  This of course necessitates either a present action (_If I were able to do it, I would_) or a past ability (_If I had been able to have done it, I would_).  However, the former loses all past tense and is the equivalent of _could do it_, hence not _could have done it_; and the latter (_had been able to have done it_) violates English idiom since we put the infinitive into the present tense to imply that it occurs in the same (past) tense as _had been able_.

Basically it seems as though the past-tense _could_ remains the same and takes either the present _do it_ or the past _have done it_, depending on the context; while _[to be] able _changes depending on context and takes the same present infinitive in both cases.

I know these minor issues have much more to do with English than with Italian, even though the thread deals with the Italian translation; but I hope these issues provoke some thought in both our English as well as Italian forer@s here.

As a last comment, it seems fortunately that Italian and English both work the same with regard both to the general ways of constructing conditional clauses and to the nuances cited by Carlo above.  Very fortunate. 


b.


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## Snowman75

brian8733 said:


> _If I *could* do it, I would. = If I *were* able to do it, I would._
> 
> _If I *could *have done it, I would have. = If I *were* able to have done it, I would have._


I agree with this. And I also agree that the second formulation sounds wrong and does not seem logical. It's like you're suggesting that if you had a time machine and were able to go back and change what happened, you would.

I think the problem is that people are so used to using "can/could" (rather than "be able") that they'll often force it into a sentence such as this where it doesn't really make sense. For now it still "sounds wrong" to a lot of speakers, but I suppose it could eventually become standard in the way that you've suggested.

For me it didn't really sound wrong until you added the missing "have done it".

*"I would have done it if I could"* sounds (marginally) ok
*"I would have done it if I could have"* sounds wrong

Actually I think with the first option there is kind of a battle going on in my head. One part of me recognises it as a grammatically correct sentence meaning "I would have done it if I could do it", and another part of me is trying to interpret it semantically as "I would have done it had I been able to do it". The result is that it just feels like there's something slightly off.


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## Paulfromitaly

Snowman75 said:


> I agree with this. And I also agree that the second formulation sounds wrong and does not seem logical. It's like you're suggesting that if you had a time machine and were able to go back and change what happened, you would.
> 
> I think the problem is that people are so used to using "can/could" (rather than "be able") that they'll often force it into a sentence such as this where it doesn't really make sense. For now it still "sounds wrong" to a lot of speakers, but I suppose it could eventually become standard in the way that you've suggested.
> 
> For me it didn't really sound wrong until you added the missing "have done it".
> 
> *"I would have done it if I could"* sounds (marginally) ok
> *"I would have done it if I could have"* sounds wrong
> 
> Actually I think with the first option there is kind of a battle going on in my head. One part of me recognises it as a grammatically correct sentence meaning "I would have done it if I could do it", and another part of me is trying to interpret it semantically as "I would have done it had I been able to do it". The result is that it just feels like there's something slightly off.




Actually I think that the sentence: _I don't think I would have done it even if I could_ without any further clarification is misleading, although grammatically correct and that's why it's been so hard finding a univocal way to translate it in Italian.


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## Snowman75

Paulfromitaly said:


> Actually I think that the sentence: _I don't think I would have done it even if I could_ without any further clarification is misleading, although grammatically correct and that's why it's been so hard finding a univocal way to translate it in Italian.


Yes, I agree. While there is only one _correct_ way of interpreting the sentence it is likely that the intended meaning is different from this interpretation (credit of course is due to brian8733 for making this clear in his excellent analysis).


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## brian

Paulfromitaly said:


> Actually I think that the sentence: _I don't think I would have done it even if I could_ without any further clarification is misleading, although grammatically correct and that's why it's been so hard finding a univocal way to translate it in Italian.


I agree that it is indeed misleading, but I think we've covered all the various ways of rendering it into Italian, right?  Apologies for complicating things, but that's what I do best. 



Snowman75 said:


> I agree with this. And I also agree that the second formulation sounds wrong and does not seem logical. It's like you're suggesting that if you had a time machine and were able to go back and change what happened, you would.


That's exactly how my brain was processing the sentence. 

Again, grammar issues aside (that is, whether the variations are grammatically sound or not), in English we do hear these "slightly off" sentences quite often, in which the ellipses (at the end of the sentence in this case) are hard to fill in and can mean a number of things.  I think it's important to keep all the variations in mind.  I was also curious whether Italian could work similarly.  Thanks for everyone's input.


b.


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## Paulfromitaly

brian8733 said:


> I agree that it is indeed misleading, but I think we've covered all the various ways of rendering it into Italian, right?
> 
> b.



We did cover all the various ways of rendering it ...but let's think about a simultaneous translator working at ONU: no time but a couple of seconds to decide how to put that jinxed sentence (it could indeed have been uttered by G. Bush.. ) into Italian..panic...shakes....how the hell am I gonna translate it without the risk of being sacked??


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