# vergüenza ajena



## pepita perez

Sospecho que debe ser una expresión intraductible, ¿pero alguien podría sugerir alguna traducción para "vergüenza ajena"?


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## diegodbs

En el diccionario de WR:

*



sentir vergüenza ajena, to feel embarrassed for sb
		
Click to expand...

*


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## joseluisblanco

Is there anyone who can translate this phrase??
Thank you!


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## lory_k75

Jose Luis mira aquí:
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=ajena


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## nushh

Curiosamente, además de decir "feel embarrassed for someone", tiene nombre: "*Spanish shame*" [see comments].

Había oído hablar de la "Spanish shame" hace tiempo, si bien nunca lo he usado y estoy viendo que en google no salen muchas fuentes.


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## loladamore

Interesante vínculo, nushh (el que acabas de quitar!!!). Me llamó la atención esta oración:


> It seems clear that Spanish people believe that English-speaking psychologists use the term 'Spanish shame'


Yo tampoco pude encontrar más referencias de este supuesto término en inglés. Tal vez me lo llevo a _English Only_, ¡a ver que sale!


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## joseluisblanco

Seems that beyond Wordreference's translation (quite good for me), english (or English?) language doesn't have the concept, the real one. Even though the _igry_ proposed at the upper link (post by nushh) does not get close to _vergüenza ajena_ because "Oh, my god, did you see that igry thing he just did?" se refiere a que eso es algo que da vergüenza ajena, pero el punto no es si algo provoca vergüenza ajena sino que uno mismo es el que siente vergüenza ajena ¿se entiende la diferencia? Am I clear? 

Besides, "feel embarrassed for someone" es sentir vergüenza por otro, sentir vergüenza por alguien, (do not forget that it is essential that the person who causes embarrassmant in the other/s does not notice the fact, like a buffoon without self-consciousness), decía, sentir vergüenza por alguien refiere a la acción-de-sentir-vergüenza-ajena y no a la vergüenza ajena en sí. De hecho es más común en español decir "esto me da vergüenza ajena" y no "estoy sintiendo vergüenza ajena". 

I think that it would be great if it existed in english (or English?) something like *this makes me (vergüenza ajena's concept)*. It could be igry, but following this idea it would be wrong to say "did you see that igry thing he just did?", because it is not an igry thing, but it *makes* sb. igry.

... sólo espero que lo anterior no haya sido muy confuso.
... I hope I was clear enough.


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## Namakemono

Creo que "cringe" es la traducción más directa.


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## joseluisblanco

Suena interesante...


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## SmallJosie

"Cringe" es muy buena palabra pero para mí no implica necesariamente vergüenza ajena. Vergüenza sí!


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## JB

1.  The word "igry" has not caught on  If you use, no one will know what you mean.

2.  Sorry, I am lost.  
Maybe somebody else can explain it.  If I am at a party with you, and you behave "maleducado" I may be embarrassed, debido a lo que tú hiciste.  Tu comportamiento es la causa de mi vergüenza, porque los otros saben que soy yo él que te traje a la fiesta, o que somos pareja, o algo así.   

3.   Si no te conozco, pero tú haces algo que te causa vergüenza a ti, yo como persona buena y cristiana, puedo tenerte compasión, pero no siento nada de vertgüenza yo.

¿Uno de estos ejemplos tiene algo que ver con el tema?


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## loladamore

Namakemono said:


> Creo que "cringe" es la traducción más directa.


 
That's probably about the closest we're going to get! But it's only _*vergüenza ajena*_ when someone else makes you *cringe*. You can make yourself cringe and things can, too.

No. 2 jbruce.

¡Saludos!


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## joseluisblanco

jbruce, as loladamore said, it is No. 2. But let me try to explain a little more about this. You said "Tu comportamiento es la causa de mi vergüenza, porque los otros saben que soy yo él que te traje a la fiesta"; el punto es que no hace falta estar involucrado con el otro para que te dé vergüenza ajena, puedes ser un desconocido y pasar vergüenza ajena; es por eso que se llama así, ajena. Hay ciertas situaciones sociales en las que ciertas conductas patéticas/ avergonzantes/ miserables/ ridículas de otros nos involucran a nosotros porque, tal vez el detalle clave, ellos no se dan cuenta o parece que _no quieren_ darse cuenta; luego, ante el vacío del "hacerse cargo" del otro, nos sentimos incómodos y vagamente amenazados de tener que hacernos cargo nosotros (tal es la condición humana) de la necedad del otro.


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## Limeade

Hola!

   I have a very basic understanding of Spanish-- but if I am understanding this the word that we use in English is embarassed.  You have to clarify yourself with a sentence--

   " He was so drunk and made such a fool of himself by coming on to that young woman in front of his wife. I felt  so embarassed for his wife.....She must have been so humilated in front of everybody. I don't know how she puts up with him" 

   Is this the concept of verguenza ajena.

   Saludos


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## nushh

Limeade said:


> " He was so drunk and made such a fool of himself by coming on to that young woman in front of his wife. I felt  so embarassed for his wife.....She must have been so humilated in front of everybody. I don't know how she puts up with him"
> 
> Is this the concept of verguenza ajena.



Not quite: if you felt "vergüenza ajena" you'd be feeling embarrassed for the *guy*, not his wife . You feel the shame the person who's making a fool of himself _should _be feeling - if he were only aware of what he was doing.

Hope this helps a bit...


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## joseluisblanco

Estoy de acuerdo, nushh.
I agree with you, nushh.

You feel the shame the person who's making a fool of himself _should _be feeling - if he were only aware of what he was doing
I think this is the point.


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## carpe

What's the translation into English??


thankssss


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## Slyder

other people's shame

I think so ( espera por otros comentarios)  


*Slyder*


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## Filis Cañí

To feel embarrased for somebody.


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## jalibusa

Esta es una buena! :"ajeno/a" es una hermosa palabra del castellano para la que no he hallado una en inglés que ni siquiera se le arrime.


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## jalibusa

I believe I've seen *"vicarious embarrassment"* used with the same meaning; I don't think it was colloquial language.


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## ciberlingua

I think so ( espera por otros comentarios)  

Al hablar en castellano conviene no calcar estructuras del inglés.

saludos


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## serpentoso

Hi.
Britons address the concept of "verguenza ajena" with the wort: cringe. It's a fact.
Es la palabra que mas se usa en inglaterra para ese concepto. Así tambien se puede hablar de algo que es cringy (que no es una palabra del ingles oficial) para denotar un evento que provoca verguenza ajena. "Her show was cringy"


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## loladamore

It is also sometimes known as "second-hand embarrassment" (I didn't think of that 3 years ago). Jalibusa is right about "vicarious embarrassment", although that's not really an everyday term. You can also speak of "empathetic embarrassment".
Still, I think the most common way of expressing the idea is saying something like "I was/felt embarrassed for him/her".

Saludos.

EDIT: There's a new thread on the same topic here.


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## ORL

> Jalibusa is right about "vicarious embarrassment", although that's not really an everyday term.



En mi experiencia, es totalmente lo contrario. "Vicariously embarrassed", "vicariously ashamed", etc. eran de uso cotidiano tanto en Irlanda como con colegas de otros países anglófonos.
Incluso se ha trasladado al castellano, sobre todo en terminología psicológica, hablando de "avergonzarse _vicariamente_", o "vivenciar _vicariamente_" (una verdadera contradicción, que a pesar de serlo, se usa). Tan de los pelos no es, sin embargo, el uso de "vicariamente", aunque no me parece recomendable usarlo de ese modo:
*vicario**, ria**.* (Del lat. _vicarĭus_).
* 1.     * adj. Que tiene las veces, poder y facultades de otra persona o la sustituye. U. t. c. s.


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## loladamore

Tus colegas han de haber sido personas cultas y/o psicólogos, ORL. No es un término que me ha tocado ni oír ni leer mucho, a pesar de que el concepto (o la experiencia) es bastante común.
Encontré el siguente comentario: "English doesn't have a good standard expression for this emotion" aquí. Estoy de acuerdo. Voy a aprovechar la coyuntura para incorporar la expresión "vicarious embarrassment" a mi vocabulario activo, para verme más culta.


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## ORL

Vivir más de un año en Dublín y hablar con toda clase de gente no me parece precisamente haberme codeado exclusivamente con gente culta o psicólogos. En cuanto a mis colegas, los había de EEUU, Canadá, Inglaterra, Gales, Australia y Sudáfrica. Todos conocían el término. Que por otra parte, aparece en los medios. Eso, en mi experiencia, repito.
En cuanto a los psicólogos, hay mucho de su lenguaje incorporado al de las capas medias de la población, especialmente en Buenos Aires. Las traducciones de libros de psicología al castellano son malísimas, y muchos de estos términos vienen impresos en esos libros y terminan siendo parte de la jerga profesional, que luego se extiende al habla de quienes se/nos analiz/an/amos.
Si te parece que te puede hacer verte más culta, adelante. No tengo objeciones.
Saludos


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## joseluisblanco

Hola a todos:
It seems to me that _vergüenza ajena_ is a concept quite known in spanish language, and almost everybody will understand its meaning.
Upon trying to translate this phrase into english (English?), many of us become confused because there is not (as long as we learned) a direct and simple, an over all, common translation.
I think that _vergüenza ajena_, as long as it is used by spanish speaking people, may be considered a rather plain and simple concept which may be translated as _feel embarrasment for somebody_. This thread explains what _this is_ and what _this is not_.

I don't know if there are further subtleties about this phrase, which might be considered within psichological theories or conceptions.
Other attempts like empathetic embarrassment, vicarious embarrasment, spanish shame, cringe, don't seem to be very known in english, so they might not be very useful.

Since I am not a psychologist or a philosopher I resign myself to accept _feel embarrasment for somebody_ as an approximate version, until someone contributes a better idea


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## Pauleo10

Me das vergüenza ajena = I am embarrassed for you. verdad???


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## SydLexia

I'm thinking of a concert. The singer is in his sixties now and his voice is gone, he has a guy whose name you don't know singing with him whose job is to run the show and sing the high notes....then.....he sings the wrong chorus on his most famous hit, and corrects himself...

It made me want to cry.
I felt embarrassed for him.
It made me feel terrible. I just couldn't watch.
I (just) had to go. I (just) couldn't bring myself to watch any more.
It made me squirm with embarrassment.
It was cringe-worthy.
It was a cringe-worthy performance.
It had me squirming (in my seat) (with embarrassment).
It was embarrassing (in the extreme).

I like 'squirm,' myself.

syd


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## gonzalobermejo

How would you translate the Spanish expression "vergüenza ajena" into English?

thx


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## kaoruca

A mí me sale "Sentir vergüenza ajena": To feel [so] embarrased for .... (him/ her/ them).


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## gonzalobermejo

kaoruca said:


> A mí me sale "Sentir vergüenza ajena": To feel [so] embarrased for .... (him/ her/ them).


 

Gracias,yo buscaba algo más compacto, menos perifrásico.


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## dexterciyo

_Second-hand embarrassment_, aunque creo que no es tan común como la expresión en español.


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## gonzalobermejo

dexterciyo said:


> _Second-hand embarrassment_, aunque creo que no es tan común como la expresión en español.


 

¡Esta me mola, gracias!


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## joseluisblanco

SydLexia: creo que tu relato es adecuado a la bendita _vergüenza ajena_.


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## neveryo

Significa vergüenza ajena vicarious shame? o vicarious humilliation? o cómo se dice en inglés 'vergüenza ajena'


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## inib

Echa un vistazo a estos hilos:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2509102
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1575245


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## Isabellaplatz

La frase en inglés sería "second-hand embarrassment" o "vicarious embarrassment" (significan lo mismo, pero secondhand embarrassment es más común


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## Mostachón

vergüenza ajena

1. f. vergüenza que se siente por lo
que hacen o dicen otros.

He encontrado una expresión en "Urban Dictionary" por azar que creo que traduce bien idiomáticamente la locución que propongo:

Second-hand embarrasment

Ahora bien,  preguntando he dado conque se conoce en US pero al parecer no en UK. Me gustaría me confirmasen esto. Es decir, ¿se usa en US y es bien conocida?, ¿se usa en UK?

(fenixpollo edit: this question was merged into a previous thread on the same subject.)


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## Bevj

Yo (BrE) no conozco esta frase 'second-hand embarrassment.


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## gengo

I have never heard that term here in the US.  I express the idea by using "for someone."

Ex.
Listening to Trump's speeches, I feel embarrassed for him.

This means that I put myself in his shoes and feel the embarrassment as if I were he.  However, if "vergüenza que se siente por lo 
que hacen o dicen otros" means that the words or actions of someone embarrass me, that would be different in English.

Ex.
I am ashamed/embarrassed listening to Trump's speeches.

This means that I myself am embarrassed (as an American, etc.), and not that I am putting myself in his shoes.


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## iribela

I think this is a very unique expression. The first example provided by gengo is what I might use, 'I feel embarrassed for him,' or 'I felt bad for him,' depending on the circumstance. Feeling as embarrassed as somebody else might feel in a particular situation is _vergüenza ajena_, but we also feel _vergüenza ajena_ when the situation involves someone who _doesn't _feel embarrassed when they should, as in, well, "Listening to Trump's speeches..."


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## franzjekill

gengo said:


> However, if "vergüenza que se siente por lo
> que hacen o dicen otros" means that the words or actions of someone embarrass me, that would be different in English.


That would be a misuse of the word, gengo. As you have said, it is the shame that I feel when someone else is doing something that is embarrassing for him or her (or "should be" embarrassing, as *iribela* says). I'm not German, but I felt "vergüenza ajena" for Joachim Löw (he was caught on TV sticking one of his fingers up his nose and then putting it in his mouth). A good example, I guess.


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## Mirlo

gonzalobermejo said:


> How would you translate the Spanish expression "vergüenza ajena" into English?
> 
> thx


Second hand embarrassment is the term for it.
But, if you say something like "his actions makes me cringe" I think it would convey the message.


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## Galván

JB said:


> 1.  The word "igry" has not caught on  If you use, no one will know what you mean.
> 
> 2.  Sorry, I am lost.
> Maybe somebody else can explain it.  If I am at a party with you, and you behave "maleducado" I may be embarrassed, debido a lo que tú hiciste.  Tu comportamiento es la causa de mi vergüenza, porque los otros saben que soy yo él que te traje a la fiesta, o que somos pareja, o algo así.
> 
> 3.   Si no te conozco, pero tú haces algo que te causa vergüenza a ti, yo como persona buena y cristiana, puedo tenerte compasión, pero no siento nada de vertgüenza yo.
> 
> ¿Uno de estos ejemplos tiene algo que ver con el tema?


You don't need to know the person to feel "verguenza ajena". You may feel verguenza ajena for anyone who does something embarrasing that you wouldn't do.

For example, you are walking down the street and see a guy riding his bike in underwear, not worried a bit about what people think, and you may be horrified or shocked and say: "Me da verguenza ajena este tipo".


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## gengo

Mirlo said:


> Second*-*hand embarrassment is the term for it.



I have never heard that, and if I did, I'm not sure I would understand it (assuming I hadn't read this thread).  Also, I can't imagine which verb would be used with that noun phrase.



Galván said:


> For example, you are walking down the street and see a guy riding his bike in underwear, not worried a bit about what people think, and you may be horrified or shocked and say: "Me da verguenza ajena este tipo".



In that situation, I might say:

That guy is just embarrassing.
I feel embarrassed for that guy.


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## OtroLencho

Mirlo said:


> Second hand embarrassment is the term for it.



I'm surprised to see several people bring up that phrase; as Gengo mentioned, I've never heard it, likely wouldn't understand it, and certainly wouldn't use it.  Maybe it's regional or cultural.

If I *had* to come up with a noun form, "vicarious embarrassment" would be a more likely possibility, but as others have mentioned, the more intuitive alternative would be a different structure entirely, along the (already-mentioned)  line of "...I felt embarrassed for the guy."


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## OtroLencho

Dilan_ML said:


> I've heard people say "second hand embarrassment".



Where did you hear that?


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