# zorro



## esl student

In Spanish there is a word to refer to those men who are always staring at woman with lust, the word is "zorro", we would say "Pedro es bien zorro". My question is : Is there a word in English to refer to this kind of guys?.

Thank you.


----------



## gengo

I have never heard zorro used that way, and have only heard it used to mean taimado.  When it is used in your way, does it only mean that the man stares at women, or does it mean that he talks to them and tries to seduce them as well?  The English will depend on the answer.*
*


----------



## esl student

gengo said:


> I have never heard zorro used that way, and have only heard it used to mean taimado. When it is used in your way, does it only mean that the man stares at women, or does it mean that he talks to them and tries to seduce them as well? The English will depend on the answer.


 He just stares at them, specially stares at breast, buttocks, etc...in a very sexual way. He doesn`t try to seduce them.


----------



## gengo

I can't think of a noun, but the verb "to leer" will serve you well.  "A leering man," etc.  With context I could give a more complete suggestion.


----------



## dudewallaby

Man! I´ve always heard the word "zorro" being used as a synonim for "clever" or "astute" in spanish.

Dude


----------



## twen

I've heard "wolf" like the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood (Capurecita Roja)


twen


----------



## esl student

dudewallaby said:


> Man! I´ve always heard the word "zorro" being used as a synonim for "clever" or "astute" in spanish.
> 
> Dude


Well, that`s how languages are. In Mexico "zorro" means fox and also a leering man.


----------



## twen

. . .but I prefer "perv" (pervert)

twen


----------



## esl student

I think "leering man" is good enough.

Thank you very much.


----------



## gengo

twen said:


> I've heard "wolf" like the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood (Capurecita Roja)



That's a good suggestion, which hadn't occurred to me.  The dictionary defines wolf as "A man given to paying unwanted sexual attention to women."  And a "wolf call" is the familiar two-note whistle that construction workers and the like love to send out to beautiful women passing by.  But the context would dictate whether wolf would work or not.


----------



## MEXpatriate

In México, women who are sexually adventurous are called "zorras", but it doesn't really apply to males. If the term 'zorro' is used on a male , it means he's 'abusado' - smart, street-wise. 
As for colloquial English, I've heard 'horn-dog' used under a similar description.


----------



## JDWright

If there is a negative connotation attached I would recommend "creep" or "creeper".

"That guy keeps staring at us, what a creep(er)."


----------



## stretch

"Leering man" may capture the meaning, but it is in no way a common usage. I recommend "perv" as TWEN has said, or for something more idiomatic, "horn-dog" like MEXpatriate says.  Both of these are common and idiomatic.


----------



## gengo

JDWright said:


> If there is a negative connotation attached I would recommend "creep" or "creeper".
> 
> "That guy keeps staring at us, what a creep(er)."



But creep alone does not imply that, and merely means someone who is eerily unpleasant.  And the only creepers I have heard of are rollers used to repair cars and types of vines.



stretch said:


> "Leering man" may capture the meaning, but it is in no way a common usage. I recommend "perv" as TWEN has said,



Nor does "perv(ert)" mean only that a man leers at women, and instead means that a person has abnormal sexual desires or behavior.  And I never implied that "leering man" should be used alone, and just gave it as a grammatical example of the verb's usage.  A natural sentence would be "Look at that guy in the corner over there; he keeps leering at all the women who come in."

Of course, in context, any of the suggested terms might be used, which is why we always ask for context.


----------



## stretch

gengo said:


> But creep alone does not imply that, and merely means someone who is eerily unpleasant. And the only creepers I have heard of are rollers used to repair cars and types of vines.
> 
> 
> 
> Nor does "perv(ert)" mean only that a man leers at women, and instead means that a person has abnormal sexual desires or behavior. And I never implied that "leering man" should be used alone, and just gave it as a grammatical example of the verb's usage. A natural sentence would be "Look at that guy in the corner over there; he keeps leering at all the women who come in."
> 
> Of course, in context, any of the suggested terms might be used, which is why we always ask for context.


 
Sure, we have to see context, but your example of "leering man" is a noun, as the original question for. If you change it to a verb, that sounds fine and retains some meaning, but isn't precisely what esl was asking for. I never implied that "perv" should be used alone, just as you 'never implied that "leering man" should be used alone,' and within the context it fits very well and not only conveys the meaning (when properly used within the given context), but also maintains the tone appropriate to an idiom such as "zorro," whereas "leering" not only indicates a higher language register, but also lacks the tone of an idiom. Just some thoughts.


----------



## JDWright

I was just offering creep as a suggestion as it is what I and many other I know would use in this context.  

I've liked all the suggestions so far, besides "leering man" sounding a bit unnatural.


----------



## jaxavi

I would NOT use "leering man". It sounds unnatural and is not a commonly used phrase.

I like the suggestion "perv".


----------



## la_machy

esl student said:


> In Spanish there is a word to refer to those men who are always staring at woman with lust, the word is "zorro", we would say "Pedro es bien zorro". My question is : Is there a word in English to refer to this kind of guys?.
> 
> Thank you.


 
The word ''lustful'' isn't good enough for that?


Saludos


----------



## stretch

la_machy said:


> The word ''lustful'' isn't good enough for that?
> 
> 
> Saludos


 
Again, "lustful" accurately describes the man, but is a higher register word than "perv," or "horn-dog," therefore rendering it a less-desirable option.


----------



## gengo

jaxavi said:


> I would NOT use "leering man". It sounds unnatural and is not a commonly used phrase.



OK, one more time (since this is the third person to mention it):  I was NOT suggesting that we call anybody a leering man (although in certain contexts it would work).  I was showing how a verb can be used to make a noun form, and nothing more.  The original poster has declined to give us the exact context, so we can't really say with any certainty what the best translation would be.  But s/he did say that the term should be one that refers ONLY to leering at women, and not to more active behavior.

I still think that wolf is the closest match so far, but again, without context, no one can say what the best translation would be (since wolf wouldn't work in every case).


----------



## Cubanboy

esl student said:


> In Spanish there is a word to refer to those men who are always staring at woman with lust, the word is "zorro", we would say "Pedro es bien zorro". My question is : Is there a word in English to refer to this kind of guys?.
> 
> Thank you.



*Here in Cuba we do use the term ''zorro'' exactly as you mentioned it in your context, and I think that the version given by gengo ''A leering man'' really conveys the meaning of the Spanish expression.

look suggestively or obliquely; look or gaze with a sly, immodest, or malign expression; "The men leered at the young women on the beach" 
a suggestive or sneering look or grin 
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A sly or lecherous look; To look sideways or obliquely; now especially with sexual desire or malicious intent
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leer
*


----------



## stretch

Cubanboy said:


> *Here in Cuba we do use the term ''zorro'' exactly as you mentioned it in your context, and I think that the version given by gengo ''A leering man'' really conveys the meaning of the Spanish expression.*
> 
> *look suggestively or obliquely; look or gaze with a sly, immodest, or malign expression; "The men leered at the young women on the beach" *
> *a suggestive or sneering look or grin *
> *wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn*
> 
> *A sly or lecherous look; To look sideways or obliquely; now especially with sexual desire or malicious intent*
> *en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leer*


 
Cuban, "leering man," even by gengo's own admission, isn't the term of choice here. It isn't an idiomatic equivalent, and conveys a higher register of language than some of the other options. Let me give you an example. What if someone says, "Hijo de la chingada"...should I translate this "son of a gun"? Absolutely not! "son of a gun" is a euphemism and certainly doesn't carry with it the same impact as "son of a bitch." The same is true with this case, although it is more subtle. "Leering man" or any variation of it, doesn't render the full meaning, tone, or intention as the original seems to have.  That's why some of the other options would be a better equivalent.


----------



## stretch

gengo said:


> OK, one more time (since this is the third person to mention it): I was NOT suggesting that we call anybody a leering man (although in certain contexts it would work). I was showing how a verb can be used to make a noun form, and nothing more. The original poster has declined to give us the exact context, so we can't really say with any certainty what the best translation would be. But s/he did say that the term should be one that refers ONLY to leering at women, and not to more active behavior.
> 
> I still think that wolf is the closest match so far, but again, without context, no one can say what the best translation would be (since wolf wouldn't work in every case).


 
The context is clear and simple.  A man is looking a women's breasts and butts in a lustful, sexual way, yet without trying to seduce them.  What more could we need to render a good translation?


----------



## gengo

stretch said:


> The context is clear and simple.  A man is looking a women's breasts and butts in a lustful, sexual way, yet without trying to seduce them.  What more could we need to render a good translation?



Um, a full sentence?

As I said, pervert is not defined as a zorro, although it _could_ be used if the context made the meaning clear.  To put this another way:

He is a pervert = Es un zorro

The above is not a true equation, without substantiating context, *which we do not have*.


----------



## stretch

gengo said:


> Um, a full sentence?
> 
> As I said, pervert is not defined as a zorro, although it _could_ be used if the context made the meaning clear. To put this another way:
> 
> He is a pervert = Es un zorro
> 
> The above is not a true equation, without substantiating context, *which we do not have*.


 
I agree that the above is not a true equation, which I stated previously when I said that it should not be used alone, which you also mentioned about your example. Great, we're on the same page there! So, when mentioned within the *context given* (which is, that the man is staring lustfully at women's bodies), any variation of "leer" is a higher register than "perv," "horn dog," or "wolf" (which isn't too bad). This isn't a matter of extracting these possible translations from their given context and making them into equivalents for a glossary. This is a matter of answering a simple question about the existence of an equivalent of the word "zorro," which we understand to mean a man who looks lustfully at women's bodies. In order for it to be an equivalent, it should be as close to the meaning, tone, and intent of the original. "Leer" isn't.


----------



## picopico

On the west coast in the US "_Creeper_" is commonly used to refer to guys that give girls the creeps. A guy *could *be a creeper by simply staring but they can also be a creeper by talking, hitting on, hanging around too closely, or any of that. So creeper can work in certain contexts. It can be borderline pervert sometimes, or in another cases, over-drunkeness or anyone who ruins a good vibe.

As far as dudes that go to bars to look at chicks but can't get up the gall to actually talk to one, or try to score with them we call them "losers" under varying circumstances.

For example, if the dude has a headache and is drinking beer with his buddies and just hanging out "enjoying the view", this guy is trying to enjoy himself. If all he is doing is staring at girls asses and tits and doing nothing else he might fall into "creeper" category. 

Also, I suppose it might depend at what kind of bar we're at, like a pub vs. a dance club.

Here in Argentina, being a yanki boludo, it seems normal for guys to grab/stare/kiss good-looking girls whom they don't know _en los boliches_, which could easily be "creeper" status in the United States, at least on the West Coast from my own experience. But yet again, sometimes it works, so maybe we could ask women:

Is *creeper* always meant in a negative way?Cuz if the dude just staring without trying to seduce them seduces them, well shit, tell me his secret. 

Is _zorro _meant to have negative connotations from a woman's perspective? How about from a man's perspective?

Furthermore, _leer _and _horn dog _would work for me, leering being the physical act of "hovering" or staying in the proximity of a woman, perhaps looking at her, and _horn dog _being someone with sex on their mind.


----------



## gengo

stretch said:


> Great, we're on the same page there!



And maybe in the same paragraph!

I agree with all that you have said, but esl student asked for how to say zorro, and I assume that s/he wants to use what we suggest, and I have merely been warning that using perv and some of the other suggestions without sufficient context will not convey the concept of zorro.  You obviously understand that already, but we can't be sure that esl does, and that's why I was trying to be more precise in what I suggested.  While register is very important (I've been translating full-time for 20 years, so I know), I would rather have esl use "leer" in the correct sense but wrong register, than use "perv" in the right register but wrong sense.

I hope you can appreciate what I mean.


----------



## stretch

gengo said:


> And maybe in the same paragraph!
> 
> I agree with all that you have said, but esl student asked for how to say zorro, and I assume that s/he wants to use what we suggest, and I have merely been warning that using perv and some of the other suggestions without sufficient context will not convey the concept of zorro. You obviously understand that already, but we can't be sure that esl does, and that's why I was trying to be more precise in what I suggested. While register is very important (I've been translating full-time for 20 years, so I know), I would rather have esl use "leer" in the correct sense but wrong register, than use "perv" in the right register but wrong sense.
> 
> I hope you can appreciate what I mean.


 
I understand, and I do appreciate your meaning and desire for esl to get the meaning across accurately.  I guess that since I've heard "perv" and have used it and would use it in the sense of referring to a guy who's staring lewdly at women, it seemed the most idiomatic, tonally equivalent term, but only within this context, as already agreed.  It obviously has other meanings for other contexts, but I really feel the context given explains enough for us to find a proper translation without stretching the register.  
Cheers!


----------



## gengo

stretch said:


> ...I really feel the context given explains enough for us to find a proper translation without *stretching* the register.



Ah, so that's where your user name comes from! 

One last comment about this, while on the topic of register.  There is also the matter of cultural register.  That is, as has been mentioned, it would not be surprising (to me) if calling someone a zorro in Spanish were far less insulting than calling someone a perv(ert).  And if that is the case, then it affects the register.

- Hombre, ¡mira esa guapa!  ¡Nálgame Diós!
- Uf, ¡qué zorro eres!

I'm just making up the above dialog, but in such a context I wonder if "perv" would be appropriate.  I don't know!


----------



## esl student

Ok ! What a thread!! 
Thank you all.  Let me give you a better context. Imagine a guy who works in an office where there are women wearing short skirts and escotes. This guy is usually staring at them, obviously trying not to be noticed but still once in a while women catch him staring at them. So in a conversation they say:"Peter is a *wolf/leering man/horn dog/perv* he is always staring at my breast or my butt".
Or a woman might say "My husband is a *wolf/leering man/horn dog/perv* , he is always staring at other women with saliva coming out of his mouth or his tongue pulled out"


----------



## la_machy

> - Hombre, ¡mira esa guapa! ¡Nálgame Diós!
> - Uf, ¡qué zorro eres! ( yo diría ...-Uf, ¡qué _*libidinoso* _eres!) me parece que esta palabra encierra un mejor sentido de alguien que te mira el trasero y es capaz de decirte  ''¡Nálgame Dios!''.
> En el dicionario de WR se traduce *libinidoso* como *''lustful'',* por eso pregunté que si no era la palabra que se busca).


 

Saludos


----------



## gengo

_Peter is such a sleeze/horn dog/wolf.  He's always staring/leering at my breasts or my butt.

My husband is a dog; he's always staring at other women, drooling at them with his tongue hanging out.
_
I don't think there is a single word that will work in all instances.  And to me, perv implies deviation, as opposed to normal (if unappreciated) male attraction to females.


----------



## Dario de Kansas

I think "pervert" or "perv" is the best we can do.


----------



## gengo

la_machy said:


> - Hombre, ¡mira esa guapa! ¡Nálgame Diós!
> - Uf, ¡qué zorro eres! ( yo diría ...-Uf, ¡qué _*libidinoso* _eres!) me parece que esta palabra encierra un mejor sentido de alguien que te mira el trasero y es capaz de decirte ''¡Nálgame Dios!''.



Interesting.  Judging from that, I would guess that zorro is not especially perjorative.


----------



## stretch

esl student said:


> Ok ! What a thread!!
> Thank you all. Let me give you a better context. Imagine a guy who works in an office where there are women wearing short skirts and escotes. This guy is usually staring at them, obviously trying not to be noticed but still once in a while women catch him staring at them. So in a conversation they say:"Peter is a *wolf/leering man/horn dog/perv* he is always staring at my breast or my butt".
> Or a woman might say "My husband is a *wolf/leering man/horn dog/perv* , he is always staring at other women with saliva coming out of his mouth or his tongue pulled out"


 
According to this broader context, gengo, it does in fact sound pejorative (which I believe was the word you intended to use ).  

Machy, you pose an interesting alternative, but the question isn't about the Spanish word, but rather the English equivalent.  

It seems to me that typically, women *don't like* for just any man to be gazing lustfully at their low necklines or short skirts.  I could be wrong, or maybe some women really do while others don't.  But, if they don't like it, then "wolf" even sounds (within the new, broader context given by esl) a bit too much of a compliment, similar to calling a guy "an animal" when referring to sex.  If they don't like this type of behavior, then "perv" fits fine.  "Horn-dog" even works well also, because it can be derogatory in this context.


----------



## gotitadeleche

Another suggestion is the word lech. "That lech is always staring down my blouse!"


----------



## mirx

esl student said:


> Well, that`s how languages are. In Mexico "zorro" means fox and also a leering man.



I grew up in México and zorro was indeed a very common word, but it was used to refer to people who stared at other people in a judging way; it was specially common among teenage girls who gossip and bad mouth other people.

I never heard that it was used to imply a sexual meaning, most definitely that wasn't the case in my surroundings.


----------



## gengo

stretch said:


> According to this broader context, gengo, it does in fact sound pejorative (which I believe was the word you intended to use ).



Yep, I always seem to add that extra R in there.  Old muscle memory is hard to erase.

But my comment was based on Machy's (_yo diría ...-Uf, ¡qué libidino eres!; me parece que esta palabra encierra un mejor sentido de alguien que te mira el trasero y es capaz de decirte ''¡Nálgame Dios!''_).  That is, she seems to be saying that someone who is base enough to say '¡Nálgame Dios!'' would probably be called libidinoso, rather than a zorro, which to me means that a zorro is not considered quite as crude.  Of course, the moral value of a word varies from person to person, so this is just one data point.


----------



## stretch

Good point, gengo.


----------



## elirlandes

jaxavi said:


> I would NOT use "leering man". It sounds unnatural and is not a commonly used phrase.
> 
> I like the suggestion "perv".[/QUOTE.
> If you are looking for a less familiar term than perv, "lech" is much more natural sounding than a "leering man"... someone who leers is a lech,


----------

