# Studere, studere, post mortem quid valere?



## simpic

Hello, please can you tell me what does the following phrase mean?

"Studere, studere, post mortem quid valere? Et ante mortem, quod manducare?"

Thanks.


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## Cagey

"Studying, studying, after death, what is it worth?  And before death, to eat what?"

(I am not confident of the second part.)  As I understand it, it means that studying isn't worth anything after death, and before death it doesn't put food on the table.


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## Pinairun

Working, studying, what's it for after death and, eating, what's it for before death?

I think the proverb means more or less that if we don't want to work thinking about death, because we'll die, why do we take the trouble to eat while we are alive.


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## Cagey

simpic said:


> Hello, please can you tell me what does the following phrase mean?
> 
> "Studere, studere, post mortem quid valere? Et ante mortem, quod manducare?"
> 
> Thanks.


Would you please tell us something about where you found this?  It would help us decide whether a translation makes sense.


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## Starfrown

simpic said:


> Hello, please can you tell me what does the following phrase mean?
> 
> "Studere, studere, post mortem quid valere? Et ante mortem, quid manducare?"
> 
> Thanks.


 
This seems very odd. The lines could perhaps be rendered literally as:

"To study, to study, after death, what to be able? And before death, what to eat?"

I just can't make grammatical sense of this, and I can't come up with anything to fill in the blanks.

Strangely, I have found several different versions of this on the internet--all of them on Italian sites. One version contained the word "magnere," about which I could find no information. I am beginning to wonder whether it is true Latin. Could it possibly be some sort of Italian word-play using pseudo-Latin?

That said, I think Cagey is on the right track because on one site, I found an additional line, which is much easier to translate:

"Melius asinus manere et vitam gaudere" (It is better to remain a fool and rejoice in life.)

Some context here would be great.


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## simpic

Cagey said:


> Would you please tell us something about where you found this?  It would help us decide whether a translation makes sense.



A signature in an italian forum...


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## brian

I think Cagey got it right. That's at least how the Italians interpret it--as far as a quick Google research could tell me. And if it was made up by Italians (highly likely), then that's the interpretation that matters, I suppose. 

simpic, letteralmente vuol dire, "Studiare, studiare, dopo la morte che vale (a che cosa serve)? E cosa mangiare?" L'idea è che studiare non serve a nulla dopo la morte (ovviamente, perché sei morto), e in vita non ti fa nulla perché non ti dà da mangiare.

Wiktionary riporta "manducare" come verbo _italiano_ obsoleto che significa "mangiare."


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## Fred_C

brian8733 said:


> Wiktionary riporta "manducare" come verbo _italiano_ obsoleto che significa "mangiare."


Yes. The latin verb "manducare" exists also, but it means "to chew", I think, not to eat, although it is the origin or the Italian "mangiare" and the French "manger".


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## simpic

Thanks to all for your replies!

...e grazie a te, brian8733


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## Paolo Yogurt

Fred_C said:


> Yes. The latin verb "manducare" exists also, but it means "to chew", I think, not to eat, although it is the origin or the Italian "mangiare" and the French "manger".


_Mangiare_ in Italian is a borrowing from French. The original Italian word was _manicare_/_manucare_, which also stems directly from the Latin word MANDUCARE.


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## Tao

Hmmmm. What about something along the lines of: _*To have zeal, to be eager, [but,] after death what[!] [are you] being strong [or healthy]? And after death, what[!] to gnaw [on] [or devour] [or eat]?*
_
It seems to concern an existential matter. It concerns (a part of) the so-called _human predicament_.

Basically, one is strong or healthy in life, eager to live, living for pleasure and the self and so forth, eating, drinking, and so on. One busies oneself with many things (as though "gnawing" on his own soul, even others and things in a sense if applicable), anxious to achieve things (possibly due to greed or social pressure or whatnot) and to have the good life.

Then, your biological life will end. Then what? All you gained and all you achieved cannot be taken with you. You are at that moment dead. You are then not strong anymore nor are you having anything to "gnaw on" or to take or to do or to live for, not being eager for anything anymore. It is as though your life was ultimately and objectively meaningless, for like all other animated beings, such as beasts in the wild, you have died and your efforts are ultimately in vain.

Even if you think that you might pass on your wealth or whatnot to some next generation or your child, that generation will also perish sometime. In fact, the problem or predicament goes beyond that and much further, because what scientists call the _heat death_---that particular moment when the universe will not allow any biological life to exist, if given sufficient time---might occur and even those human generations will die out and stop existing. All human life at some point will end and will not exist at all.

What, then, is the point of it all? What, then, is the point of human existence? What, then, were you so busy with pointless things, given that there is no ultimate hope? Hope? What hope? What meaning? What is the point? Is not all life and all existence absurd?


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## whir77

Fred_C said:


> Yes. The latin verb "manducare" exists also, but it means "to chew", I think, not to eat, although it is the origin or the Italian "mangiare" and the French "manger".


Actually, it does mean to eat. A famous example is the bible:
Mattheus 35 esurivi enim et dedistis mihi *manducare* sitivi et dedistis mihi bibere hospes eram et collexistis me

For I hungered and ye gave to me something to eat- I thirsted and ye gave me something to drink- I was a guest and ye collected me.


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## Paolo Yogurt

whir77 said:


> Actually, it does mean to eat. A famous example is the bible:
> Mattheus 35 esurivi enim et dedistis mihi *manducare* sitivi et dedistis mihi bibere hospes eram et collexistis me
> 
> For I hungered and ye gave to me something to eat- I thirsted and ye gave me something to drink- I was a guest and ye collected me.


It does mean "to eat" indeed, but only in Late Latin and Vulgar Latin. The Vulgate was a late IV century translation and was written in a plainer, simpler way by Saint Jerome, who was adept at Classical Latin. Up to the II-III century, MANDUCARE meant "to chew, or to eat by chewing".


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## Sardokan1.0

whir77 said:


> Actually, it does mean to eat. A famous example is the bible:
> Mattheus 35 esurivi enim et dedistis mihi *manducare* sitivi et dedistis mihi bibere hospes eram et collexistis me
> 
> For I hungered and ye gave to me something to eat- I thirsted and ye gave me something to drink- I was a guest and ye collected me.




The same verb it's still used in Sardinian meaning "to eat"  = mandigare, mandicare, manigare, manicare (only in central-northern Sardinian), while southern Sardinian uses another Latin verb : "pappare or pappài" (in origin "pappari")


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