# Imaginary relatives in language



## emma42

In British English we have a couple of expressions which include references to imaginary relatives, such as:

*Bob's your uncle!*

Meanings:  And there it is/Everything will be alright/Everything will go smoothly.

Examples:  

*If you want to make good pastry, just make sure all the ingredients are cold, and Bob's your uncle!

The plug on my TV won't work.
Just change the fuse, and Bob's your uncle!

*We also have, "*My Aunt Fanny!*"

Meaning:  an expression of disbelief or suspicion

Examples:

*I'm sure your teenagers will help with the housework if you ask them nicely.
My Aunt Fanny!

These sandwiches were made fresh this morning.
Fresh, my Aunt Fanny!  They're stale.

*Are there any imaginary relatives in your language?


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## alexacohen

Hello Emma,

I am not quite sure of how widely they are used in Spain, but in my area there are some imaginary cousins.

There is always an imaginary female cousin when we want to criticize someone near us (and who would undoubtedly hear our nasty comments).

- ¿Has visto el horrible vestido que lleva hoy my prima? 

- Have you seen the outrageous dress my cousin is wearing today? 

Tha "prima" does not exist, of course. The woman with the outrageous dress is walking just in front of us.

Then there is an imaginary cousin, el primo de Z---sol, a real hulk of a man. If we are trying to lift something which is obviously too heavy, there will be an onlooker who says:

- ¿Te llamo al primo de Z---sol?

- Shal I call the cousin from Z---sol?

El primo de Z---sol is "the" cousin, by the way.


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## emma42

Thanks, Alexa - I love that!  Is "Z---sol" what you actually say, or is there something missing?


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## cuchuflete

Could this British/Galego custom have roots in _The Importance of being Earnest_?
In other words, is it limited to relatives, or are imaginary friends like the ailing Bunbury
included in the traditions?


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## emma42

Ooh, yes, include friends as well.  I'll warrant that the tradition pre-dates Mr Wilde's masterpiece.


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## emma42

*Bob's your uncle*:

Apparently, the most popular theory as to the origin of this expression is that it comes from the propensity of one Robert Cecil (aka Lord Salisbury, a Victorian Prime Minister of Britain) to appoint his nephew to various posts.  "Bob" is a familiar variant of "Robert".


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## ewie

Let's not forget _the friends of Dorothy_, Em.
Oh and _the cat's aunt_.


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## alexacohen

emma42 said:


> Thanks, Alexa - I love that! Is "Z---sol" what you actually say, or is there something missing?


 
Actually there is something missing. 

A couple of years ago, a very well known brand of bottled fruit juice was advertised like this:

- Young boy has a fight at school.
- He loses and tells the other boys that when his cousin arrives, they'll see.
- His schoolmates believe the young boy is boasting about an imaginary cousin.
- The young boy replies that his cousin is real, and strong, because he always drinks fruit juice brand X.
- The cousin appears, juice bottle in hand, and he is a hulk of a man.

The phrase stuck; a hulk of a man, whether real or imaginary, is now "the cousin from Zumosol".


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## ewie

Oh I see ~ Zumosol. *Other soft-drink brands are available*


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## emma42

Oh, yes!  The friends of Dorothy - I've always loved that one.  You'll have to explain it for the uninitiated, Master Ewie.

Yes, "the cat's aunt".  I am more used to "The cat's mother", normally used as a remonstrance when one refers to "she", rather than using a person's name.

*She didn't do it properly.*
Who's "She"?  The cat's mother? [ie "You have been impolite.  You should use the person's name, not refer to her as "She"].

Edit:  thank you, Alexa.  So, do you actually say "el primo de Z---sol" or "el primo de Zumosol"?


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## alexacohen

ewie said:


> Oh I see ~ Zumosol. *Other soft-drink brands are available*


 
I'm sorry, everyone. I didn't realize name brands could be posted. It is "el primo de Zumosol", of course, Emma.


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## romarsan

Hola

El primo de Zumosol es un clásico de España, pero no para críticas, sino para presumir y sentirse protegido, ha venido a ser el sustituto del "mi papá es policia" de mis tiempos.

Para emitir una critica recurrimos a la figura de algún pariente como mi primo/a, mi tio/a o, cuando lo que se critica se considera realmente deleznable, se toma distancia diciendo "mira mi vecino/a..."

El trasfondo siempre es que el pobre criticado se de perfecta cuenta de que se le está criticando pero sin darle pie a defenderse.

Saludos


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## emma42

Gracias, romarsan y Alexa.  !Voy utilizar esta expresion cuanto antes!


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## alexacohen

cuchuflete said:


> Could this British/Galego custom have roots in _The Importance of being Earnest_?
> In other words, is it limited to relatives, or are imaginary friends like the ailing Bunbury included in the traditions?


Hm. We don't do a lot of bunburying around here. 

Maybe it is because Algernon eventually killed his friend when he decided to marry Cecily... wrong decision, as a married man needs a Bunbury in his life.

Imaginary friends are not usually mentioned in Galicia. It's just imaginary cousins all over the place (we are a nation who loves gossip).


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## Nunty

I don't know if this is still popular, but when I was growing up in Jerusalem, if someone seemed to sit around waiting for other people to give him money or presents, he was usually  accused of thinking the "uncle from America" would give it to him. I don't think this is Uncle Sam. It probably relates to the fact that in the 1950s Israel was very poor country and people who had relatives in wealthier places, particularly the US, often recieved gifts of clothing and so on.


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## alexacohen

ewie said:


> Let's not forget _the friends of Dorothy_,


 Ewie?

What does it mean, please?


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## danielfranco

Well, in Mexican Spanish we use the long-suffering grandmother of the Cape Crusader to express an "Of course!" very emphatically, thus:

—Guadalberto, ¿trajiste dinero? ("Guadalberto, did you bring some money?")

—¡Aaaaaa-buelita de Batman! (You have to prolong the "A" in "abuelita" [granny], for it to mean "Bet your ass I did!")

I've just remembered that, in English, there's also de pseudo-profanity "Oh, my giddy aunt!" Not very appropriate to use that phrase in my family, unfortunately, as some of my aunts could be rather tentative in remaining upright after a sherry or two…

D


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## ewie

Oops, sorry Ale, I forgot to explain. _Friends of Dorothy_ are those types of male homosexual (i.e. _all_ male homosexuals) who worship at the shrine of St.Judy ~ aka Judy Garland, who of course played Dorothy in _The Wizard of Oz_.


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## EmilyD

My father grew up in Palestine (1933-50?)used to say a Hebrew phrase that was used during a sneeze.

I cannot type in Hebrew..
*
"Epshtein ba bayit"*
*
"Epstein's in the house!"*

Please correct this, anyone...

Lovely topic, this!

NMI


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## ewie

Something just reminded me of
_Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!_ = Gosh, I am thoroughly astonished.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the Anti-Darwinian Backlash, said Ewie, trying to be serious for a moment.


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## cuchuflete

And, who can ever forget E.E. Cummings's famous Uncle Sol, from
_
Nobody loses all the time_ ?


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## Montesacro

Suppose you have taken a long winding irrational road to go from point A to point B (B being usually very close to A): you've just followed Peppe's route (_hai appena fatto il giro di Peppe_).

Peppe is not a relative but is certainly an imaginary guy who has a problem with orientating himself...


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## emma42

Grazie, montesacro.

This reminds me of "Shanks's pony".  I don't know who "Shanks" is, but if you take "Shanks's pony" to go somewhere, this means you are walking there.


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## ajo fresco

I don't know if this is common everywhere, but in my part of the world, women have a monthly visit from their "Aunt Flo."  

One of my friends in Germany called it "my aunt from Moscow."


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## emma42

Oh, yes!  I heard that when I was in America.  I don't hear it in England, though.

In England I have heard a woman's private place referred to as her "Aunty Mary", but I don't know how common that is.


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## alexacohen

We have a mother in Spain that is not really a relative of ours, but rather the mother of all questions.

That would be "la madre del cordero", the mother of the lamb. 

It means the ultimate source of something, the "that is the question". 

When our temperamental car, also known as "the German bitch" refuses to start, my dear husband usually throws open the boot and starts touching this and that.

When I ask, "what is the problem"? the answer is: "baby, that's the mother of the lamb".

Don't ask me why. I have no idea why it is so.


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## emma42

Interesting.  "the Lamb" (capital L) is, of course, Jesus Christ, the "Lamb of God".  I wonder if that has anything to do with it?


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## alexacohen

emma42 said:


> Interesting.  "the Lamb" (capital L) is, of course, Jesus Christ, the "Lamb of God".  I wonder if that has anything to do with it?


I hope not. I never saw it written with a capital "L".


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## emma42

No, it wouldn't be written with a capital L in "la madre del cordero".  I was wondering if the origin of the phrase was in  the "Lamb of God", bearing in mind that Spain has traditionally been a very religious country.  Of course, it might very well have nothing to do with it.  Maybe the origin is agricultural.


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## Camilo1964

Hola!

Aquí en Venezuela es popular la "Mamá de Tarzán", a quien se invoca cuando la gente está fastidiada de ser víctima de alguna broma, como por ejemplo: 

"_¿Por que no vas a seguirle preguntando la misma tontería a la mamá de Tarzán?"._

Cuando se quiere hablar de alguien (varón) que está presente, pero sin nombrarlo y que él se de cuenta de que hablan de él, se invoca al señor "Esteban de Jesús", como por ejemplo esposa y mejor amiga conversando enfrente de la víctima: 

_"-¿Y no sabes quien llegó anoche a casa tardísimo y con una borrachera terrible? 
-No, no tengo idea 
- Esteban de Jesús 
- No te creo!"._ 

Para el mismo caso, pero si la aludida es mujer, algunos utilizan el nombre de una cantante venezolana: "Estelita del Llano". La idea es jugar con los demostrativos "este" y "esta".

Saludos,

Camilo


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## cuchuflete

AE speakers sometimes turn themselves into relatives of an imaginary creature, who, as circumstances would have it, is a mythical monkey.

_Ewie: _When I grow up I'm going to be a painter and the moderator of a serious language forum.
_Cuchu: _Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!  Serious, you say?  Hmmmm.


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## alexacohen

cuchuflete said:


> _Ewie: _When I grow up I'm going to be a painter and the moderator of a serious language forum.
> _Cuchu: _Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!  Serious, you say?  Hmmmm.



We do that, to. But we turn into imaginary creatures ourselves.

_Alexacohen:_ Voy a ser una forera seria y no chatear jamás de los jamases.
................   I'm going to be a serious forera and I will never chat again.

_Spanish Mod (fem.):_ Sí, mujer, sí. Cuando yo sea la viudita del Conde Laurel.
.......................     Yeah, sure, when I become the little widow of Count Laurel.

(Now, that was chat, wasn't it)


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## emma42

I've thought of another BE one.

*A Dutch uncle

*Someone who criticises or speaks harshly in order to admonish or educate.

According to Wikipedia, the origin is probably in the 17th century empire-building rivalry between Britain and The Netherlands.  Both country's languages had expressions derogatory to the other country.  Apparently, "Dutch uncle" was much more disparaging originally than it is today.

I don't know whether it's used in other English-speaking countries.


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## Trisia

Well, we do have that "big brother" who's going to beat you and poke your eyes out if you mistreat his siblings.

And there's "mătuşa din Italia" - _the aunt from Italy_, who's always there to solve your problems (_deus ex machina_-style). Actually this is very close to Alexa's "cousin." We had a series of TV ads about a housewife and her troubles associated with washing clothes: the aunt living in Italy would come visit and bring A*e with her -- some laundry bleach thing, that magically solved everything (or _dissolved_, depends how you look at it).


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## emma42

Great!

You have reminded me of Big Brother, from George Orwell's novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Big Brother is watching you!  (reference to over-controlling government or similar, governments who hold a lot of information on citizens etc).

The novel is an indictment of totalitarianism.


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## Benvindo

In Portuguese (Brazilian) we say “casa da Mãe Joana” (Mother Joana’s house), referring to a very messy or unruly thing or situation, a thing in complete disorder: “esta biblioteca está uma casa da Mãe Joana, os livros estão todos em completa desordem” (this library is a casa da Mãe Joana, the books are all in complete disorder”. “Mãe Joana” is supposed to be a whore or to run a brothel or cabaret or something alike, I think.


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## emma42

Obrigada, Benvindo!  Eu gosto essa expressao (I'm sorry I can't find  the accent for "a").


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## Benvindo

emma42 said:


> Obrigada, Benvindo!  Eu gosto essa expressao (I'm sorry I can't find  the accent for "a").



- - -
Thanks Emma for the reply. I like it too. I'll write in English so if I make any mistakes, please feel free to correct me!  There is one more meaning to that expression. I forgot to tell that "casa da Mãe Joana" can of course be used to name a "disreputable place", as posted in the thread "Mother Joan's house" of the English-only forum.


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## mithrellas

emma42 said:


> We also have, "*My Aunt Fanny!*"
> 
> Meaning: an expression of disbelief or suspicion
> 
> Examples:
> 
> *I'm sure your teenagers will help with the housework if you ask them nicely.*
> *My Aunt Fanny!*
> 
> *These sandwiches were made fresh this morning.*
> *Fresh, my Aunt Fanny! They're stale.*
> 
> Are there any imaginary relatives in your language?


 
Para los ejemplos que has puesto en España diríamos "Tu tía" (tenga o no tenga tía la otra persona)

Se me ocurre otra expresión. Cuando estás enfadado con alguien y no quieres responderle a una pregunta le puedes decir "pregúntale a Rita" o "que te lo diga Rita" (siendo Rita alguien imaginario).

...and imaginary relatives: "Esto es como tener un tío en Alcalá" used when something is useless.


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## emma42

There is definitely something about aunts....

I love, "Ask Rita"!


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## ulala_eu

In Galician:
* _Ese ten un tío na Habana/Cuba_ (He's got an uncle in La Habana, Cuba...). It means that someone's rich because he's got a relative who is reach. We say that because a lot of people form Galicia has a relative who emigrated to South America and many of them became rich.

In Spanish:
*_Éramos pocos y parió la abuela_ (We were not too much and then grandma gave birth). We use it when something unexpected and bad happens or when someone unexpected arrives.
*_No hay tu tía (your aunt is not there)_. It means "no way".

And many more. But I an only think of those right now


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## federicoft

In Italian you can say _"*tua sorella!*" _(your sister!), which has exactly the same meaning as "my Aunt Fanny!" in BE. Or possibly, even a broader one since you can use it as a generic (mild) insult.


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## emma42

I thought that expletives like "tu madre", "your mama", and now, "tua sorella" were extremely offensive, being short for "Go and f**k your mother/sister".  This obviously isn't the case with "tua sorella".

But perhaps we are going off the subject of _imaginary_ relatives.


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## Nanon

French: _"chez ma tante"_ (at my aunt's) is colloquial for the pawn shop.
There is a saying about someone who is very happy or very proud: _"le roi n'était pas son cousin"_ (litterally: the king was not his cousin, i.e. had he belonged to the royal family, he would not have been happier!) 



ulala_eu said:


> *_No hay tu tía (your aunt is not there)_. It means "no way".



A related thread: no hay tutía. In this case the aunt is purely fictitious, if the expression actually comes from _tutía _or _atutía_, a sort of panacea.


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## Sepia

If you want to be disrespectful in German just adress any old person who is not your relative with Oma or Opa - Grandma, Grandpa.

More common is "Tante" - aunt - a generic expression describing a middleaged to older, often welldressed lady. The word in this meaning even became part of the name of a German dialect - Petutantendeutsch - more about this in the ethymololgy thread: German-Danish dialect continuum.

It woudl be logical if "Tante" would have a  male counterpart here, but it doesn't.


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## ulala_eu

Nanon said:


> A related thread: no hay tutía. In this case the aunt is purely fictitious, if the expression actually comes from _tutía _or _atutía_, a sort of panacea.




Wow! That´s really interesting. I didn't know it! Thank you for the very interesting information, Nanon.


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## Wilma_Sweden

In Swedish, we also have some expressions involving imaginary relatives:

fan och hans mormor (the devil and his grandmother)

This is a comic way of saying etc., every Tom, Dick and Harry, or similar expressions, about people or things. The connotation is negative. Possible context (I'll put them in English for simplicity's sake):

_All sorts of characters turned up at my party including the devil and his grandmother._

_In order to install Windows Vista, I had to upgrade my hard disk, RAM, graphics card and the devil and his grandmother._

Another one is Kalle Ankas moster (=Donald Duck's aunt), to represent something you find very unlikely or an outright lie:

_If you're a computer expert, I'm Donald Duck's aunt._ (I don't believe for a second that you're a computer expert).

/Wilma


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## Dom Casmurro

Benvindo said:


> In Portuguese (Brazilian) we say “casa da Mãe Joana” (Mother Joana’s house), referring to a very messy or unruly thing or situation, a thing in complete disorder: “esta biblioteca está uma casa da Mãe Joana, os livros estão todos em completa desordem” (this library is a casa da Mãe Joana, the books are all in complete disorder”. “Mãe Joana” is supposed to be a whore or to run a brothel or cabaret or something alike, I think.


Another one from Brazil: "casa da sogra" ("mother-in-law's house"), bearing about the same meaning as the above, save for the brothel/cabaret presumable root. The meaning is: at the "casa da sogra", a remarkable lack of discipline prevails, as the mother-in-law is easy-going when it comes to setting limits on behaviour. Everything in her house is allowed, as opposed to _this_ house, where rules are there to be followed.

Ex.: Está pensando que aqui é a casa da sogra? (Do you think this is mother-in-law's house?)


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## effeundici

Oh, and how to forget the funny italian ones:

_Tua nonna in carriola / Your grandmother in a wheelbarrow_

used as an answer for making fun of someone asking for something impossible or very annoying or embarassing

_Se mio nonno avesse 5 palle sarebbe un flipper / If my grandpa had 5 testicles he would be a pinball_

used to make fun of people who use to say "If I had been luckier, now I would be a great..." or something like that

ciao


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## SpiceMan

ulala_eu said:


> In Spanish:
> *Éramos pocos y parió la abuela (We were not too much and then grandma gave birth). We use it when something unexpected and bad happens or when someone unexpected arrives.


We were _few_ and granma gave birth.

The "few" part is ironic, as if we were a family with 15 members struggling to survive, and then the granny has a baby posing even more problems.

By analogy, it's used when there are several problems and a new problem -unexpected, as a granny having a baby- arrives.
Or when there's only food for four people and suddenly three more people arrive.

Or just when a friend arrives, as if saying "on top of all my problems I have to deal with you!". Jokingly, of course.


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## olivinha

In *Brazil*, we used to use our _grannies _too!
In Brazilian Portuguese, there is the childish (and rather outdated) expression _É a vovozinha_ as an answer to an insult.
_Seu grosso!_ 
_Grosso é a vovozinha!_
_You creep!_
_That's your granny!_


In *Spain* it is really common to hear: _La madre que le* parió_ (*the pronoun may vary, I think).
I wanted to know if this expression is also common in other Spanish-speaking countries. Thanks.


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## Benvindo

One from Portuguese (Brazil, Portugal and other PT-speaking countries):

"Pai dos burros" (lit. father of the donkeys, i.e., the stupid, the dumb): THE DICTIONARY 

Ir ao pai dos burros: to look up something on the dictionary.


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## Stumpy457

ewie said:


> _Friends of Dorothy_...who worship at the shrine of St.Judy.



May I say, as a straight man, you don't have to be gay to adore that wonderful artist! XDDD

Oh, and fake relative wise...there's the classic 'YOUR MOM!', who usually _does _exist, just not as stated. It's usually a crude sexual joke used among middle schoolers...and some of my friends. XD

For instance...

"What are you doing right now?"
"YOUR MOM!"

"What movie did you watch last night?"
"The one your MOM and I made!" [Implying pornography]


...yes.


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## Nanon

Apart from not being imaginary (!!) the good (?) thing about "your mom" is that she exists (so to say) in several languages, too.
French has a variant where the "imaginary" part is not poor dear old mum but how she dresses, assuming she will look ridiculous: _"Ta mère en bikini !"_ or _"Ta mère en tongs !" _(tongs = flip-flops)
Sometimes even more, ahem... context is provided: _"Ta mère en tongs aux pieds de la Tour Eiffel_ (your mum in flip-flops at the feet of the Eiffel Tower)!" 

PS - Please don't misread me - I am very fond of my mum. And I mean it


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