# Spanish teachers in particular, how do you deal with . . .



## KateNicole

students that are convinced that the text book is inherently wrong and "that's not how they really say it."  I always have a handful of students who think that there is an overwhelming difference between "street" Spanish and that which is taught from the textbook and fear ever encountering a native speaker.  I try to explain to my high school students that if they are unable to immediately express themselves/have a conversation in Spanish/understand a television show in Spanish, it is most likely because they still have not learned enough vocabulary, not because the vocabulary they did learn is incorrect.  It frustrates me when native speakers (usually teenagers who normally don't even mean any harm) make other people think that there is an enormous difference between casual Spanish and what is generally taught in the classroom.  Does anyone else encounter this or have suggestions?


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## Antartic

Don't we have the same problems with 'book English' and street English? I think so. And what you say it's correct, but I dare to say that the cornerstone of all this is vocabulary and slang and idioms, that's the way we speak with friends, we change mostly one word for another but we don't change the structure or word order of the Spanish language. So when your students leave the school they will have in their minds the proper or formal way of speaking but a lack of enough slang words to understand everything for ex. in movies or casual contexts.


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## Reili

Kate, tell your students that  standard and formal Spanish taught at schools will be  useful to communicate with each Spanish speaker they meet in street, school, office, hotel, ariplain, bus... any place... and lately they'll learn some more specific kind of Spanish depending the area they live.


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## cirrus

I used to teach English in Colombia and would come up against a similar situation.  I was occasionally told my English didn't apply, what they spoke was American.  My favourite example:  a student insisted point blank that the sentence "My sister is nurse" (pronounced to rhyme with jersei) was 100% correct in American English.


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## fenixpollo

For me, this is not an issue of defining "correct" Spanish or convincing the students that your version is better than the "street" version. It's an issue of convincing students that their slangy, informal speech is not appropriate in all situations. You run into the same issue when teaching English to native speakers of English. Many students don't see the usefulness of learning a different way of speaking than the way they speak with their friends.

My approach to this issue was always to explain that, in many situations, the "street" way of talking won't get them very far, so I recommend that they learn another way of expressing themselves. If they want a job, a scholarship, or to meet their girlfriend's parents, they should learn to talk in a way that avoids swearing and popular jargon. If they want to open themselves to other possiblities than the ones they are in right now, they'll learn. 

The problem is, if you're talking about teenagers, it's hard for many of them to realize this, since they can't see 5 minutes into the future. Everything that counts is right now. The only thing that matters is the social reward they get from their peers from using the appropriate slang. 

Not to mention the native speakers who get other social rewards from sounding like they know more or 'know better' than the teacher. They may even recognize that their Spanish and your Spanish are both valid, but they score points by looking more like an expert than you, so they'll challenge your Spanish. With these kids, I try to involve them and let them teach their words/ideas as an alternative to the ones I'm presenting. This lets them be the expert, but my words ideas always win since they're the ones on the test.


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## suzzzenn

How about taking 10-15 minutes a week to teach a little "street Spanish"? I have a little book that has slang expressions that is really funny. It is called "Hide this Spanish book". It has a lot of expressions around dating, body functions, music, and other things that teenagers generally find interesting. It also points out country by country differences. A little bit might go a long way. The book has a lot of sexual terms, so you would need to be selective. Parents might not appreciate it as much as your students would!


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## Fbiana_angel

cirrus said:
			
		

> I used to teach English in Colombia and would come up against a similar situation. I was occasionally told my English didn't apply, what they spoke was American. My favourite example: a student insisted point blank that the sentence "My sister is nurse" (pronounced to rhyme with jersei) was 100% correct in American English.


 
Hi cirrus, I want to Know if you can say   My sister is nurse"   because I learned that you have to say "my sister is a nurse"  is there any difference in those sentences? Thanks.


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## Cathurian

You're right Fbiana, you say "My sister is a nurse". You would NEVER say "my sister is nurse".


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## cuchuflete

Cathurian said:
			
		

> You're right Fbiana, you say "My sister is a nurse". You would NEVER say "my sister is nurse".



Before we get too emphatic, perhaps we should ask Cirrus for some context, and the intended meaning of the sentence.



> a student insisted point blank that the sentence "My sister is nurse" (pronounced to rhyme with jersei) was 100% correct in American English.


  If 'nurse' is pronounced to rhyme with jersei, it just might be an attempt to say, "My sister is nursing."


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## QUIJOTE

I just want to say to KateNicole not to get discouraged with students who think the spanish in the streets is not what she teaches in the classroom, an educator not only has to deal with teaching issues but also has to be coach, counselor, psychologist, friend, mother or father sometimes, students all they have for them is to be students many don't even get that right, spanish is spanish as english is english there are foundations to the language no matter how much the words get twisted to mean something else the meaning remains the same.


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## jess oh seven

it's true to an extent though. some of the "standard" things i was taught at school became totally redundant when i went to live in Spain. 

_- i got laughed at when i said "estampilla" instead of "sello"_
_- i got laughed at when i said "estoy constipada" instead of "estoy resfriada"_
_- barely anyone says "¿cómo estás?" - the closest you're going to get is "¿qué tal estás?"_

coincidentally, all of these things were taught to me in school!! ingrained in my head!

ok so the people who laughed at me weren't being mean about it, it's just because it sounded funny and *antiquated* to them.

BUT, the majority of things you're going to learn in school provide stepping stones for being able to carry out an understandable conversation, and the gaps (whether they be related to vocabulary, grammar, or colloquiality) will eventually be filled in when you're immersed in the language.

i taught English in a secondary school in Spain, and part of the reason for me being there was to help the students (and teachers) recognise and be able to use more colloquial English, and not rely on only what's in the textbooks. for example, all of my students used to say "hello" to me, but when i started replying with "hi", they began saying that. nobody goes around saying "hello" all the time to everyone they know! 

also, when i'd ask students "how are you doing?" they'd get immensely confused. the only way they know of asking this question is "how are you?" - otherwise they're just lost. you see?


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## jacinta

I see this problem differently.  I do agree that it can be a problem, though.  The first thing I would say is that there is a difference between "slang" and colloquial speech.  I do not teach slang in the classroom.  The reason for this is that I don´t believe that a person can use slang in a foreign language without knowing the language *very* well.  I explain to my students that the words I teach them are the words I know and use but they may not be the words someone else may use to say the same thing.  

Because there are so many Spanish speaking countries in the world, it would be impossible for a teacher to give her students the "correct" way to say something because it may not be correct somewhere else.  We can only teach what we know.  As long as we are teaching the "basic" Spanish, we can be certain that our students will be understood and will be able to communicate in Spanish.  This is the most important factor in teaching foreign languages, in my opinion.  Yes, there always is that one student who will pipe up with, "That's not how you say it!"  My answer to that person is, "Teach us how you say it.  I love learning new ways!" Or, I will explain where I learned the word and that in other countries they may use a different word.
As far as the "Cómo estás?" comment goes, I agree.  Even though the speaker will be understood, I like to teach the more common phrases, and they aren't included in textbooks.

I could go on and on, but I won't.  This is the gist of what I want to say, anyway.


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## asm

Read this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(linguistics)

I do not know how to approach to this with all students; the very same question means something different, according to the student who asks it and to the mood he-she uses.

I think the majority of students will be OK if you just tell them:

 I am not teaching the way ALL people use, but the fundations of Spanish. The Spanish I am teaching will be useful to learn that other language (register, slang, dialects) you are interested in. 

However,  if I teach you that language, you will not be able to construct from there anything. 
You cannot learn slang in a second language if you do not know the basis of that same language (what happens to be what we teach here).



			
				KateNicole said:
			
		

> students that are convinced that the text book is inherently wrong and "that's not how they really say it." I always have a handful of students who think that there is an overwhelming difference between "street" Spanish and that which is taught from the textbook and fear ever encountering a native speaker. I try to explain to my high school students that if they are unable to immediately express themselves/have a conversation in Spanish/understand a television show in Spanish, it is most likely because they still have not learned enough vocabulary, not because the vocabulary they did learn is incorrect. It frustrates me when native speakers (usually teenagers who normally don't even mean any harm) make other people think that there is an enormous difference between casual Spanish and what is generally taught in the classroom. Does anyone else encounter this or have suggestions?


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## Tabac

KateNicole said:
			
		

> students that are convinced that the text book is inherently wrong and "that's not how they really say it." I always have a handful of students who think that there is an overwhelming difference between "street" Spanish and that which is taught from the textbook and fear ever encountering a native speaker. I try to explain to my high school students that if they are unable to immediately express themselves/have a conversation in Spanish/understand a television show in Spanish, it is most likely because they still have not learned enough vocabulary, not because the vocabulary they did learn is incorrect. It frustrates me when native speakers (usually teenagers who normally don't even mean any harm) make other people think that there is an enormous difference between casual Spanish and what is generally taught in the classroom. Does anyone else encounter this or have suggestions?


I can identify with all the responses so far. I would encourage you to have native speakers in your classes prepare little lessons of their own, showing differences in what they say '_en casa_' as opposed to book Spanish; include also slang expressions that they can identify (be careful they don't come up with things like _pendejo_ and other crude terms).​


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## riquezada

As a native bilingual (English & Texas-Norteno)person and a prior high school Spanish teacher I have a bit of input.  Spanish is Spanish, but then it isn't. I tried to teach using the "book" and most of the time the stuff made sense, but did sound quite odd. I would say at the level of most students that the "book Spanish" would be the way to go. Then when they got into college it would pretty much be the same. I think they only wanted to learn "street" Spanish for the dirty words.


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## JLanguage

Cathurian said:
			
		

> You're right Fbiana, you say "My sister is a nurse". You would NEVER say "my sister is nurse".


 
Unless you were imitating a foreign speaker,  .


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## Don Borinqueno

I agree with what the majority of the people are saying here. People must realize that if you are not native of the language you must learn the correct way with no slang (jerga). Much of the "casual" Spanish that you were referring to earlier is filled of slang spanish. I believe that this is one of the reasons why some native teenagers say that Spanish teacher should be teaching Spanish a different way then they are now.


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## susantash

jacinta said:


> I see this problem differently. I do agree that it can be a problem, though. The first thing I would say is that there is a difference between "slang" and colloquial speech. I do not teach slang in the classroom. The reason for this is that I don´t believe that a person can use slang in a foreign language without knowing the language *very* well. I explain to my students that the words I teach them are the words I know and use but they may not be the words someone else may use to say the same thing.
> 
> *Because there are so many Spanish speaking countries in the world, it would be impossible for a teacher to give her students the "correct" way to say something because it may not be correct somewhere else.* We can only teach what we know. As long as we are teaching the "basic" Spanish, we can be certain that our students will be understood and will be able to communicate in Spanish. This is the most important factor in teaching foreign languages, in my opinion. Yes, there always is that one student who will pipe up with, "That's not how you say it!" My answer to that person is, "Teach us how you say it. I love learning new ways!" Or, I will explain where I learned the word and that in other countries they may use a different word.
> As far as the "Cómo estás?" comment goes, I agree. Even though the speaker will be understood, I like to teach the more common phrases, and they aren't included in textbooks.
> 
> I could go on and on, but I won't. This is the gist of what I want to say, anyway.


 
Exactly! I couldn't agree more. The problem is, What do you teach? Is there any Spanish equivalent of, for example, BBC English?. I think it's pretty difficult to know what kind of things you leave out and what things you include. A "Standard variety" is such an ample concept that any attempt to set boundaries as to what is included and what is left out would leave us with something different from the original language.


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## SaritaSarang

My spanish teacher tends to teach "spain" spanish, ( she isnt hispanic) and that causes problems because living in America the most common spoken spanish is mexican spanish. Its kinda confusing sometimes because then when you take what shes taught you and speak to locals, they say no one talks like that here, or thats not how you say it.  The one that really gets her going is when I say " carro" en vez de " coche".


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## Blehh.

^My teacher (who _is_ a Spaniard) teaches standard Spanish from our textbooks, but speaks Spanish to us in a European Spanish accent and teaches us the Spain equivalent for many words. The only problem with this is that now I have a hard time understanding American Spanish accents, which completely stinks since I live in an area with an extremely large Mexican population. 

I think including different colloquialisms from different countries in textbooks would help as well if you're teaching Spanish. (My textbook does this.) If textbooks can't do this, having the teacher teach them can help as well.


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## mirx

The book Spanish will let them be understood by mostly everyone, while the slang-ish Spanish will only be understood by those who speak it.

Stick with the book, and if you live in a community where a "kind of Spanish" is mainly used, then try to include some phrases but be firm that they learn the Spanish in the book.

PS. If bad words is what moves them, then let them make their own sentences using the bad word and the Spanish from the book, that is, a well structured sentenced and the insult where it is supposed to be.

Saludos.


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## chics

I find interesting to teach only Spanish from Spain in UK, and only American Spanish in USA. In California, for example, you should teach the Spanish spoken there and no other.

You can do a single class in a year with the slang vocabulary most used is everyday life. It will be enough and students will be happy, but remember that this vocabulary is very local (choose where! Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Buenos Aires, Mexico...) and change very quickly, so they'll become oldfashioned in few years.

Teenagers are always interested in dirty words. Teach them! It will take fifteen minutes in a year to give them a list, and it's also vocabulary. You'll have all the other classes to teach them other vocabulary, grammar, etc. Everything must be in their exam.


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## Blehh.

^I don't know how the parents would react to that, though. Kids would like it, but parents and other school officials would definetely object.


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## fenixpollo

chics said:


> Teenagers are always interested in dirty words. Teach them! It will take fifteen minutes in a year to give them a list, and it's also vocabulary. You'll have all the other classes to teach them other vocabulary, grammar, etc. Everything must be in their exam.


 This violates most schools' policies, and some states' laws. It would be culturally unacceptable and it would challenge the values of a huge number of parents, teachers, school officials, school board members, politicians....

Most people who take high-school Spanish do not practice it and they lose most of what they learned -- except one or two words or phrases. If they only remember two phrases from high school, I'd rather them be _dónde está el baño_ and _me llamo Miguel_, instead of _vete a la ****_ and _**** tu madre_.


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## chics

I see you didn't understand me, I said you could dedicate a single hour (or less) in a year to this, and all the other hours (twenty? forty? ninety? more?) to other vocabulary.

They will learn _¿dónde está el lavabo?_ as well, and lots of other things. 

And they will be more interested since they are persuaded that they learn is useful to them. And, you know, they will learn dirty words as well, just looking in dictionaries (I did it!!!), in the net, in films... they may learn very strong things thinking that they aren't so strong, girls will say only-men expresions when they didn't wanted lo be males chauvinistes, etc. so better to focus it, don't you think?

My friends and I "teach" some expressions to _guiris_, just for laugh, things like "A bier, please" = "Jódete, hijoputa!". If any of these words rang a bell of them... they wouldn't say it! And they wouldn't repeated it after when they're with their Spanish mates, their boss, some children...

Finally, I didn't know that this was unacceptable in your country. It isn't in Spain and in fact it's typical to do a class (or some, depending on the age, the course, the objective, etc.) of slang, usually the last day before holidays, for example. In all languages.

And I must say I don't know any teenager -and of course I cann't imagine it from an adult- who says taht English, French, Italian... are not useful or so different of what they'll need. They can say it's difficult, that they have too much homework, that they'd prefer to talk more in smaller groups... but never your problems.


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## Ynez

jess oh seven said:


> it's true to an extent though. some of the "standard" things i was taught at school became totally redundant when i went to live in Spain.
> 
> _- i got laughed at when i said "estampilla" instead of "sello"_
> _- i got laughed at when i said "estoy constipada" instead of "estoy resfriada"_
> _- barely anyone says "¿cómo estás?" - the closest you're going to get is "¿qué tal estás?"_



Let's clarify something. You said Spain and as a Spaniard I reply:

stamp = sello
"estoy constipada" is perfect, I personally always use that one and never say "estoy resfriada" but that option is perfect as well. I just can think that people laughed because you pronounced "constipada" very properly. I would say nobody pronounce the n there "coNstipada". I for instance say "costipá". But that kind of laugh is not a bad one, it is just people find it funny when foreigners say things better than themselves.

But it's good you learn "co(n)stipada. If you finally come to live here for a long time you would adapt to our accent and decide if you want to use it or not.

"¿Cómo estás?" is perfect. I agree it is interesting to learn some other possible questions like "¿Qué tal (estás)?", "¿Cómo te va?", but saying "¿Cómo estás?" is not normal is like saying "¿How are you?" is not normal and English teachers should only teach "What's up?", for instance.


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## roxcyn

You said your students say that the textbook is wrong.  You would like to know suggestions on how to handle how they say things.  

First, I believe you have to ask yourself:  What is the purpose of learning another language?  Why should people learn another language?  

You may answer: to communicate with other people, to understand a worldly view of the world, etc.  

Then you have Spanish, there are 20 plus countries that speak it.  Therefore each country is going to have its own "words" for items.  It's that way with English, there are many different dialects as well.

If your students are saying the book is wrong you may want to introduce examples with the different dialects in English.  In Caribbean English they say "I sat an exam", in American English they say "I took an exam", etc.  In British English they say "pavement" in American English they say "Sidewalk". Therefore it totally depends on where you are in the world.  

You may want to look into Spanish Slang books and teach them various slangs (without swear words and sexual stuff).  You could teach them some phrases if the class does well on/with an exam/portfolio/attendance/behavior.  Encourage them to talk to people in Spanish and they will learn new phrases.  They will find that various people say things different ways.  That is how it is in English.  People say things in different ways.

You may want to use other sources besides the book such as newspapers, magazines, BBC in Spanish, etc.  The book is not the only source for Spanish.  

Have a nice day.

Pablo


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## elizabeth_b

roxcyn said:


> You said your students say that the textbook is wrong. You would like to know suggestions on how to handle how they say things.
> 
> First, I believe you have to ask yourself: What is the purpose of learning another language? Why should people learn another language?
> 
> You may answer: to communicate with other people, to understand a worldly view of the world, etc.
> 
> Then you have Spanish, there are 20 plus countries that speak it. Therefore each country is going to have its own "words" for items. It's that way with English, there are many different dialects as well.
> 
> If your students are saying the book is wrong you may want to introduce examples with the different dialects in English. In Caribbean English they say "I sat an exam", in American English they say "I took an exam", etc. In British English they say "pavement" in American English they say "Sidewalk". Therefore it totally depends on where you are in the world.
> 
> You may want to look into Spanish Slang books and teach them various slangs (without swear words and sexual stuff). You could teach them some phrases if the class does well on/with an exam/portfolio/attendance/behavior. Encourage them to talk to people in Spanish and they will learn new phrases. They will find that various people say things different ways. That is how it is in English. People say things in different ways.
> 
> You may want to use other sources besides the book such as newspapers, magazines, BBC in Spanish, etc. The book is not the only source for Spanish.
> 
> Have a nice day.
> 
> Pablo


 
I strongly agree with this statement.  What people needs to learn in class is the "language structure".  We're learning the grammar compounds and vocabulary when you get to a certain level of knowledge, meaning you handle the basics, then you can start knowing  how to distinguish slangs, accents, etc... 

This last ones you can teach them a few but most of them they will learn  talking with spanish speakers.  Let them work!!!  They can participate by bringing their new linguitic discoveries!  

Just point out that they won't really speak the language if they don't handle it's structure.  Because you can't really say you "know" a language just by talking slang...


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## Lusitania

I've had the luck to have Spanish teachers from Spain and South America. They also teach us all the variants from other Spanish Speaking Countries and they teach us "street spanish". The books also approach it.

We had lots of fun because some words exist in Portuguese but have a completly different meaning.


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## ColdomadeusX

When I was learning French from my French teacher generally, everyone was under the impression that he was a complete phony, his lessons were crap and that he couldn't speak French at all. We also thought that we were just learning text book type stuff and we sounded like robots. What surprised most of the class ( and the year as well) was when someone who could speak French fluently actually told us that there was nothing wrong with the French we were learning and that the teacher indeed spoke fluent French.
I think in order for you to get across the message that the Spanish that you are teaching your students is the building blocks for better conversations in the future, you need to somehow get a fluent Spanish speaker to tell your students that there's nothing wrong with their Spanish and that their language skills are not "anitiquited" (can't spell that).

I know that it helped my class realise and want to study harder; perhaps it will help you too.

p.s. it helps if the person who speaks fluent spanish is someone that the students know or even someone with a Spanish accent (don't know why but it's kind of instinctive that people trust other people with accents when told by them that their linquistic skills are perfectly fine).


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## karuna

I have a bad experience with my language teachers. I personally don't understand why they teach so much from the textbooks during the class. I don't deny that grammar rules are necessary but I am perfectly capable to read them myself at home as a homework. Also don't give me all these boring grammar drills. I have found them useless as they don't improve my language at all. 

What I really expect from teachers is to show me how all the language structures, grammar and vocabulary work in practice. And practicing street conversations is one of the most motivating things for students. If you don't want to include them, you surely make your work much harder by facing unmotivated learners, especially if they are teenagers. You don't have to do it all the time but trying it now and then would help immensely. 

Sorry for my negative attitude but the reason is that currently I am learning Spanish from a native speaker teacher and don't like it at all. It was supposed to be conversational classes and the language school examined me and agreed that I indeed know enough theory. Yet, the teacher simply takes out their standard textbooks and is reading them to us. What a waste of my time and money!


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## roxcyn

I was going through some of my slang dictionaries.  You could teach some phrases from Street Spanish I, and II.  Their third volume is where you probably shouldn't go.  However if they are doing good on a test, why not teach them how to say things like "guy", "dude", "Just chilling", "Nothing much," "old lady", etc.  They aren't words that are bad, and they are some slangs that are cool for them to use.  

Pablo


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## LaLoquita

My extremely talented and insightful high school Spanish teacher (back in the 80s) taught standard Spanish and we did grammar drills almost daily. That constant practice is what gave me the solid foundation in the language, which in turn helped me gain my fluency and near-native accent in a very short period of time (by the time I went to Mexico for a semester during my junior year in college, I was able to effectively fool Mexicans into thinking I was a native speaker).

Grammar drills are dreadfully boring, but certainly effective when used properly.

Now, 20 years later, I work in a warehouse in a small midwest town with a very large Hispanic population. In fact, when I started working here a year ago, our employee population was 90% Hispanic. One of my main job duties is to provide translation/interpretation of documents, policies, handouts, and employee meetings, and one thing I run into constantly is that some of our native-Spanish-speaking supervisors tell me that the floor associates won't understand my "textbook" Spanish, because "nobody talks that way."  Many of our workers have come from Mexico with very little formal education, and much of their work vocabulary is Spanglish, or English with a Spanish accent (el tíket, for example). It's difficult because I want to use correct Spanish, yet when we're talking safety rules, it is paramount that I be understood! So I have begun to "compromise" and use textbook Spanish for written documents and for formal occasions like new hire orientation, and for informal interpreting I use "street" Spanish.

I also am a former Spanish teacher, so I see the situation from all three perspectives--former student (wondering, "Do they _really_ say that?"), former teacher (teaching the basics of grammar and the standard way of speaking) and translator, using the best of both worlds. 

When I started learning Spanish as a high school sophomore, I had no idea that I would end up using it to earn a living. I am very thankful for my strong grammar education, and wouldn't trade my experiences in Mexico learning slang and "the way they really talk" for anything in the world.


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## divisortheory

I have to agree with "the students" on this one.  I don't know anything about spanish, but in all the foreign languages I've ever tried to learn, it's very obvious to a native speaker when you're speaking Textbookese.  Too many textbooks mention the formal rules as the main point of a lesson, and will sometimes, if you're lucky, include more casual street versions in a little footnote.  It should be the other way around.  

Much of the grammatical structures and vocabulary I've learned from textbooks for multiple foreign languages include so many things that either people just flat out do not use at all, or are used only in literary contexts and publications.  It is ridiculous to teach these constructs and vocabulary as standard speech.  When you learn a foreign language, you are almost with 100% certainty going to be using it first to speak with friends, acquaintances, people on the street when asking for directions, at a restaurant, etc.  People need to know normal speech first, and pick up office/formal speech second.


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## palomnik

I see a lot of comments here from students of languages complaining about teachers that teach "text book stuff", along with boring drills.

Let me put the question: what's wrong with textbook stuff?

My answer is: nothing. My feeling is that wanting to learn "what people really say" is really just an excuse for the fact that you don't want to sound like a foreigner. 

But you _are _a foreigner, aren't you?

There is a lurking danger in learning too much colloquialism in the classroom, because colloquialisms have a lot of emotional baggage associated with them, and the student is not apt to understand all the nuances behind the way he may say something. As a result, s/he runs the risk of sounding foolish instead of "normal."  And it's better to be bookish than foolish.

Attempting to use forms of the language that are too colloquial can quickly run you into a conversation where you are hopelessly out of your depth. It is better to learn these usages while hearing them on the street, in films, or on TV, where you can better comprehend the context.

If you know the "correct" way to say it, you'll almost always be understood. And that's the first goal of learning a language.


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## Javier Criguel

for jess oh seven, who got laughed at saying "estampillas" instead of "sellos" I would have to say that that is a thing of Spain.  When I went to Argentina, I heard "estampillas".  And the movie "Nine Queens" or "Nueve Reinas" can be my witness to "estampilla" not being antiquated in all parts of the Spanish-speaking world


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## Lusitania

palomnik said:


> I see a lot of comments here from students of languages complaining about teachers that teach "text book stuff", along with boring drills.
> 
> Let me put the question: what's wrong with textbook stuff?


 
I think that should be a balance, my teachers bring music and texts from their countries and newspaper articles and we get to discuss about the situation and this is not only very helpful for improving oral expression as well as for knowing other cultures.

I quit French because my teacher was always going by the book and it became very boring.

I enjoy more interactivity in classes, when we asked him for it he said that he should stick for the book and programme and we should listen to French radios and watch french tv.

The Spanish learning here is very interesting we get to discuss a lot about history and ways of living, I'm there more for what I can learn from Spain than from the Language itself as I could learn it on my own from now on.


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## palomnik

Lusitania said:


> I think that should be a balance, my teachers bring music and texts from their countries and newspaper articles and we get to discuss about the situation and this is not only very helpful for improving oral expression as well as for knowing other cultures.
> 
> I quit French because my teacher was always going by the book and it became very boring.
> 
> I enjoy more interactivity in classes, when we asked him for it he said that he should stick for the book and programme and we should listen to French radios and watch french tv.
> 
> The Spanish learning here is very interesting we get to discuss a lot about history and ways of living, I'm there more for what I can learn from Spain than from the Language itself as I could learn it on my own from now on.


 
I'm all for discussing history and ways of living.  However, that is not necessarily outside of the text, although, granted, it depends on the text.  The best texts I've found for learning languages incorporate that sort of material into their structure.

My objection is to disregarding material because it is perceived as being not colloquial enough for students' taste.


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## Lusitania

palomnik said:


> I'm all for discussing history and ways of living. However, that is not necessarily outside of the text, although, granted, it depends on the text. The best texts I've found for learning languages incorporate that sort of material into their structure.
> 
> My objection is to disregarding material because it is perceived as being not colloquial enough for students' taste.


 

Yes, I know what you mean, but what I found in books it's that some exercises are really silly, especially when it involves culture and it's like Spanish dancing all night long sevillanas and toreros and stuff like that. There are more interesting texts on daily newspapers that we can use to practise the language.


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## ayupshiplad

palomnik said:


> I see a lot of comments here from students of languages complaining about teachers that teach "text book stuff", along with boring drills.
> 
> Let me put the question: what's wrong with textbook stuff?
> 
> My answer is: nothing. My feeling is that wanting to learn "what people really say" is really just an excuse for the fact that you don't want to sound like a foreigner.
> 
> But you _are _a foreigner, aren't you?
> 
> There is a lurking danger in learning too much colloquialism in the classroom, because colloquialisms have a lot of emotional baggage associated with them, and the student is not apt to understand all the nuances behind the way he may say something. As a result, s/he runs the risk of sounding foolish instead of "normal." And it's better to be bookish than foolish.
> 
> Attempting to use forms of the language that are too colloquial can quickly run you into a conversation where you are hopelessly out of your depth. It is better to learn these usages while hearing them on the street, in films, or on TV, where you can better comprehend the context.
> 
> If you know the "correct" way to say it, you'll almost always be understood. And that's the first goal of learning a language.


 

I completely agree! I'm going to take a stand for teenagers learning languages here...! Yes, I have slang dictionaries but I only use slang that I know _how_ to use because otherwise I'll just end up sounding like I'm trying too hard to be 'cool'. Moreover, it's really hard to tell if a word is 'chavvy' or not...and I like to sound educated, thank you very much!


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## divisortheory

I think my comment above was misunderstood.  I'm not talking about street slang akin to English "yo" or "sup" or "just chillin".  I'm talking about normal, everyday speech that adults, kids, and old people use.  Most textbooks teach you formal speech, as opposed to casual speech.  Textbook speech makes you sound like you're a flight attendant on an airplane speaking to the passengers before take off.  It's too polite, too formal, and it sounds awkward.

There is nothing "incorrect" about using casual speech.  Casual speech is a legitimate part of any language.


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## ayupshiplad

divisortheory said:


> I think my comment above was misunderstood. I'm not talking about street slang akin to English "yo" or "sup" or "just chillin". I'm talking about normal, everyday speech that adults, kids, and old people use. Most textbooks teach you formal speech, as opposed to casual speech. Textbook speech makes you sound like you're a flight attendant on an airplane speaking to the passengers before take off. It's too polite, too formal, and it sounds awkward.
> 
> There is nothing "incorrect" about using casual speech. Casual speech is a legitimate part of any language.


 
Hahaha, I think that if someone said to me 'yo', 'sup' or 'just chillin' I would just think 'what an utter w****r!' The thing is though, I don't know about other countries, or in fact other schools in the UK, but we don't really use textbooks at our school. I mean, we have them but we barely use them. It's more teaching materials which the school's heads of departments make up themselves, so are usually up to date and sound 'normal' rather than too polite. Maybe I'm just lucky!


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## palomnik

I think, maybe that in the final analysis this situation is akin to one that you sometimes find in educated adults learning a foreign language. In teaching English to foreigners, which is my "night" job, I not infrequently run across the phenomenon of the highly educated, urbane person who is reluctant to speak in class. The reason is not hard to find; people like this take pride in their ability to be articulate, and rather than run the risk of sounding uneducated in English (or God forbid, making a "silly" mistake!), they simply prefer not to say anything at all.

In a like manner, for a group that is preoccupied with self image (like high school students), the idea of sounding plain vanilla in a foreign language is unpalatable. The problem is, of course, that it takes a lot of hard work to be proficient in a foreign language, and the returns frequently are not immediate.


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## ayupshiplad

palomnik said:


> ...I not infrequently run across the phenomenon of the highly educated, urbane person who is reluctant to speak in class. The reason is not hard to find; people like this take pride in their ability to be articulate, and rather than run the risk of sounding uneducated in English (or God forbid, making a "silly" mistake!), they simply prefer not to say anything at all.
> 
> In a like manner, for a group that is preoccupied with self image (like high school students), the idea of sounding plain vanilla in a foreign language is unpalatable. The problem is, of course, that it takes a lot of hard work to be proficient in a foreign language, and the returns frequently are not immediate.


 
May I also offer another option. People who are interested in language not only want to sound educated but find that even the thought of making a mistake, especially in a language they are 'good' at, is highly embarrassing. I know that I certainly fall into that category of people. I will only ever speak my non-native languages with people I know really well, because they know the amount of effort I put in, how much it means to me, and how hard I try to get everything right. Futhermore, they know I'm not stupid. I'm not too fond of carrying the risk of speaking to strangers in their language, becoming too nervous and completely screwing the whole thing up and leaving an impression that I am an eejit. 

I quite honestly have no idea what 'plain vanilla' means, but I'm guessing it means 'uncool'. Please do not be patronising. It depends on interest in language, _not age_, whether someone realises the amount of work that goes into being proficient in a language.


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## divisortheory

"plain vanilla" just means plain, or normal.


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## palomnik

ayupshiplad said:


> May I also offer another option. People who are interested in language not only want to sound educated but find that even the thought of making a mistake, especially in a language they are 'good' at, is highly embarrassing. I know that I certainly fall into that category of people. I will only ever speak my non-native languages with people I know really well, because they know the amount of effort I put in, how much it means to me, and how hard I try to get everything right. Futhermore, they know I'm not stupid. I'm not too fond of carrying the risk of speaking to strangers in their language, becoming too nervous and completely screwing the whole thing up and leaving an impression that I am an eejit.
> 
> I quite honestly have no idea what 'plain vanilla' means, but I'm guessing it means 'uncool'. Please do not be patronising. It depends on interest in language, _not age_, whether someone realises the amount of work that goes into being proficient in a language.


 
Ayup, I had no idea that I was coming across as being patronizing, and I apologize.  As Divisor says, "plain vanilla" means being normal, no frills, just the basic package.

I also mean no offense at people who have a hard time bringing themselves to speak in another language.  There are a lot of people I've met that fall in that category, and quite a few of them are highly educated.

Your statement raises a question that intrigues me, namely, the extent that people in other cultures will correct you when you speak their language.  Maybe this has been dealt with previously, but I'll check and if not I'll start a thread.


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## LaLoquita

Your statement raises a question that intrigues me, namely, the extent that people in other cultures will correct you when you speak their language. Maybe this has been dealt with previously, but I'll check and if not I'll start a thread.

My experiences have been that the native Spanish-speakers I've encountered (in the US or in Mexico) have just been thrilled that I even try to communicate in their language. There have been times that I've struggled with words or phrases and the person(s) I'm talking to is/are very eager to help me express myself, offering suggestions if they have the idea of what I'm trying to say.  I've never been corrected in a manner that made me feel offended. I've spent time in the large cities as well as in mountain villages in Mexico, and the helpful, gracious attitude seems to be the same everywhere. I've never felt "looked down upon" because of any language errores.


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## galcosta

Creo que es igual de importante enseñar lo que está en los libros y lo que se habla en la calle, en casa, en el día a día. Estamos discutiendo sobre enseñar un idioma, no matemáticas, sino algo que está en permanente cambio, difiere según los ambientes (académico, no académico), según la región, según la clase social. Creo fervientemente que todo "está bien" por lo tanto hay que enseñar todo lo que sea posible, indicando siempre, en que contexto se dice, si es lenguaje coloquial o no, en donde es más utilizado, en que contextos, etc. etc. y etc. no tiene mucho sentido transmitir exclusivamente lo que dicen los libros, que en general están desactualizados, y la información es muy, es demasiado acotada.


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