# λαλάγγια



## modus.irrealis

Hi,

Around holidays, a traditional food for my family is this here. We call them λαλάγγια and I know some people who call them λαλαγγίδες. The other day, I used the word with some people and nobody seemed to have any idea what I was talking about, and this time when I looked it up in the dictionary the words weren't there. I did find λαλαγγίτες, but the dictionary says that thes are τηγανίτες, and these, going by what google tells me, seem to be something quite different from my λαλάγγια. So my question is basically what would the most common word be for these things? Now I realize it's possible that the food itself is a local thing and there's no standard word for it, but that would be good to know as well.


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## anthodocheio

Hello friend!

Βλέποντας τη φωτογραφία συμπέρανα αυτό που λέει και εδώ. Είναι τηγανίτες. Απλά, προφανώς, είναι κάποιο τοπικό είδος τηγανίτας με το δικό του τοπικό όνομα.

Εγώ δεν έχω πάει προς τη Μάνη και δεν το έχω ακούσει (ούτε το έχω φάει ).


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## modus.irrealis

Ναι, φαίνεται πως το "τηγανίτα" θα είναι η γενική λέξη, αλλά με τοπική σημασία. Μου είπαν οι γιαγιάδες εδώ ότι τα λαλάγγια κι οι τηγανίτες φτιάχνονται με το ίδιο ζυμάρι αλλά οι τηγανίτες είναι λεπτές και στρογγυλές κι όχι έτσι μακριά όπως τα λαλάγγια. Κι αυτό που το λέει τηγανίτα το λεξικό (π.χ. του Τριανταφυλλίδη λέει "γλυκό ή αλμυρό πρόχειρο φαγώσιμο από χυλό, που το ρίχνουν κουταλιά κουταλιά σε καυτό λάδι και το τηγανίζουν") είναι πιο αραιό και λέγεται "κουταλίδα", αλλά βρήκα μερικά site που λένε ότι και τούτα τα λένε "τηγανίτες", κι έτσι λοιπόν φαίνεται ότι αυτή η λέξη χρησιμοποιείται για όλα.


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## Spectre scolaire

I am a bit puzzled by this dish. I never had anything called λαλάγγια in Greece, but I may have eaten τηγανίτες in a small village in central Peloponnisos – only I can’t remember whether this was what they called it. The photo provided in the two previous posts looks familiar. So many years ago, I may have associated τηγανίτες with the pan itself and not thought too much about it. But the word λαλάγγια would have caught my curiosity. 

The reason why I am now “intervening” is that λαλάγγια strangely reminds me of the Turkish word _lal__ânga_ – only it doesn’t mean exactly the same as Greek λαλάγγια. I have eaten _lalanga_ - it is written _with_ or _without_ the accent - in a Turkish village, and it was a kind of small pancake. This site http://dilekce.blogspot.com/2005/02/lalanga.html gives an idea of the dish. _This word is generally not known in today’s Turkish._

The Turkish word – it reminds me of Lakota tχatχánga, “a bison”; remember the film “Dance with Wolves” ?  – comes from Persian, but I haven’t found out its original meaning. It is interesting, however, that if Turkish lalânga is derived from Persian, the etymology referred to in Λεξικό της Κοινής Νεοελληνικής, i.e. a Greek etymology, must be wrong - unless we have a _Rückwanderer_.

But first, we should probably make it clear whether we are really faced with the same dish – or a possible variant of it. 
 ​


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## anthodocheio

modus.irrealis said:


> Ναι, φαίνεται πως το "τηγανίτα" θα είναι η γενική λέξη, αλλά με τοπική σημασία. Μου είπαν οι γιαγιάδες εδώ ότι τα λαλάγγια κι οι τηγανίτες φτιάχνονται με το ίδιο ζυμάρι αλλά οι τηγανίτες είναι λεπτές και στρογγυλές κι όχι έτσι μακριά όπως τα λαλάγγια. Κι αυτό που το λέει τηγανίτα το λεξικό (π.χ. του Τριανταφυλλίδη λέει "γλυκό ή αλμυρό πρόχειρο φαγώσιμο από χυλό, που το ρίχνουν κουταλιά κουταλιά σε καυτό λάδι και το τηγανίζουν") είναι πιο αραιό και λέγεται "κουταλίδα", αλλά βρήκα μερικά site που λένε ότι και τούτα τα λένε "τηγανίτες", κι έτσι λοιπόν φαίνεται ότι αυτή η λέξη χρησιμοποιείται για όλα.


 
Ναι modus, αυτό ήθελα να πω. Η λέξη "τηγανίτα" είναι γενική και περιλαμβάνει πολλά πράγματα. Αυτό που λέει το λεξικό είναι η πιο απλή μορφή. Εδώ βρήκα και μια άλλη, και σκέφτομαι ότι ακόμη και οι δίπλες θα μπορούσαμε να πούμε ότι είναι.

Τι λέτε εσείς οι άλλοι; Τελικά έχω δίκιο;


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## Spectre scolaire

As a *PS* to my previous post, I talked to some Turkish friends about lalânga. Some had never heard the word, some others said they usually call it lalengi[!] or bişi, and those who did recognize the kind of _pastry_ or _pancake_ we are talking about, all claim it is only found along the western coast of Turkey. (If I remember correctly, my knowledge about lalânga comes from the Antalya region). A person from Trabzon had never heard about it.

So much for the “Turkish connection”... 
 ​


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## pulcinella

Spectre scolaire said:


> As a *PS* to my previous post, I talked to some Turkish friends about lalânga. Some had never heard the word, some others said they usually call it lalengi[!] or bişi, and those who did recognize the kind of _pastry_ or _pancake_ we are talking about, all claim it is only found along the western coast of Turkey. (If I remember correctly, my knowledge about lalânga comes from the Antalya region). A person from Trabzon had never heard about it.
> 
> So much for the “Turkish connection”...
> 
> ​


Well, yes, the western coast of Turkey, the Asia Minor, and Greece have a lot of things in common, especially food. Until the first decades of the 20th century in that area lived plenty of Greeks that after the war of 1912-1922 had to immigrate to Greece. But still a lot of dishes and sweets are common, eg mpaklavas (an excellent sweet), kataifi (another sweet), dolmades (a dish), to mention only a few. There are still people living there who understand or speak Greek (although I think few now). Two summers ago I drove through all the western coast of Turkey and I did enjoy the food which is very close to the Greek cuisine. And I also loved the people who are very friendly and open-hearted.

There's a film on the argument of the food and other common things of the 2 communities, Πολίτικη Κουζίνα (A Touch of Spice).


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## modus.irrealis

Spectre scolaire said:


> The reason why I am now “intervening” is that λαλάγγια strangely reminds me of the Turkish word _lal__ânga_ – only it doesn’t mean exactly the same as Greek λαλάγγια. I have eaten _lalanga_ - it is written _with_ or _without_ the accent - in a Turkish village, and it was a kind of small pancake. This site http://dilekce.blogspot.com/2005/02/lalanga.html gives an idea of the dish. _This word is generally not known in today’s Turkish._


That dish seems to be more pancake-like than bread-like. The λαλάγγια I'm familiar with are, like the recipe anthodocheio linked to says, made with yeast -- and it seems the lalanga aren't. I did some digging up and found λαλάγγιον in Liddell and Scott in the entry for λαλάγγη, which means the same as λάγανον (a thin broad cake, of meal and oil), so a ancient Greek etymology seems probable.


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## Spectre scolaire

pulcinella said:
			
		

> There are still people living there [along the western coast of Turkey] who understand or speak Greek (although I think few now).


 Those who speak Greek in that area today would exclusively be descendants of Muslim Cretans who came with the Population Exchange. 



			
				modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> I did some digging up and found λαλάγγιον in Liddell and Scott in the entry for λαλάγγη, which means the same as λάγανον (a thin broad cake, of meal and oil), so a ancient Greek etymology seems probable.


 Thanks for this information – my L.-S. is not next to me where I live for the time being. Is this word a _hapax legomenon_? 

If somebody could look up _l__âleng_ (or something like that) in Deχuda, the huge Persian monolingual dictionary, we might get a hint at a possible Classical Greek loanword from Persian.
 ​


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## anthodocheio

So we are putting also λαγάνα into discussion, which is definitely a bread. Here is a foto.


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## sasakis

Λαλαγγίδες I have absolutely no idea what it means, but λαλάγγια is a kind of pancake (done in pan) made solely in this moment in Lakonia and especially Mani (where I come from). In recent years during the immigration of Maniates in Kalamata, there are done there two. There are ancien greek kind of food, it's not pastry and is too cheap (meaning for the poor) to be ever done in Asia Minor.


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## modus.irrealis

Spectre scolaire said:


> Thanks for this information – my L.-S. is not next to me where I live for the time being. Is this word a _hapax legomenon_?



An _oktakis legomenon_. At least, I checked through my library's account with Thesaurus Linguae Graecae online and it only found eight occurences (and that includes forms of λαλάγγη and λαλάγκιον). But I have to revise my "ancient" in Ancient Greek and say Medieval, since the occurences are all in late works and half are simply glosses of ancient words.



sasakis said:


> Λαλαγγίδες I have absolutely no idea what it means, but λαλάγγια is a kind of pancake (done in pan)


Are your λαλάγγια different from the ones seen in the picture I linked to in my original post? I ask because I wouldn't call those pancake-like.



> made solely in this moment in Lakonia and especially Mani (where I come from).


And in the diaspora too .


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## superturkey

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about because I can't read that funky text but, the word Lalengi is not very well known in Turkey. My 85 year old grandpa fed me this for years till I moved to Toronto. It was my favorite breakfast. He'd surprise me in the mornings when I woke up. My family eats it with feta cheese, olives and such. It's a deep fried bread. There's no yeast involved. Here's the recipe my grandpa gave me last year. I cook it but the ingredients are not the same here as they are in the beloved Aegean region.
1 egg, 1.5 table spoons of natural yogurt, 1 table spoon of real butter, Half a table spoon of sunflower oil Mix that with as much white flour as you can till it becomes as soft as your ear lobe (My grandpas measurement methods) Chop the doh intosmall balls and flatten them. Than fry it in half an inch of sunflower oil in a pan. The trick is to get the egg, yougurt, butter mixture right so it rises. You can add a pinch of baking powder if you like but don't over do it. You can also let it sit for 10-20 minutes to make it rise more but than it become a pain in the butt to flip it over.


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