# Many happy returns



## Eraser2

Hi!
What does it mean "*many happy returns*"? 
I know that these are some kind of wishes, but why _returns_? _Returns_ of what?


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## Kelly B

Many happy returns... of the day.
May you have many of these occasions (birthdays, anniversaries), implying a long life.


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## panjandrum

Today is your birthday.
One return of today is one more birthday.
Two returns of today is two more birthdays.
Many returns of today is many more birthdays.
Many happy returns of today is many more birthdays when you are happy.

It seems like a cliché, but it has a very simple meaning.

I expect that most people who say this have no idea what it means and have never thought about it.


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## Eraser2

Thank you Kelly B and panjandrum!


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## mimi2

Hi,
"If you feel in the mood of celebrating, will you let me take you to dinner and movies, as a sort of birthday treat! And in the meantime, many happy returns!"
1.I would like to know if using "in the mood of celebrating' is correct?
2. What does it mean "many happy returns"?
Thank you very much.


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## Trisia

1. I'd choose between:
If you're in the mood for celebrating,
If you're in a celebrating mood
If you feel like celebrating​2. The expression (as I know it) is "many happy returns of the day" (I wish you many more anniversaries to come)


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## dn88

2. Yes, but it also works without "of the day".


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## Trisia

dn88 said:


> 2. Yes, but it also works without "of the day".



True, I should have mentioned that. 
Mimi, that's the original expression, but dn88 is right


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## Sane

What the word "returns" means in "I wish you many happy returns of the day"?


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## JamesM

It is looking at a year as a cycle rather than a line. Each time the year swings around again to that person's birthday/anniversary you are wishing that the person will have another happy birthday/anniversary again.


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## entangledbank

Good question. It doesn't seem to have any of its common meanings here. But I have always presumed, after puzzling over this, that it must mean "may this day return again many times". So it's not the meaning of the word that's unique to this expression, but the idiom it's in. It always feels strange, orphaned, to me.


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## Copyright

From The Phrase Finder for *many happy returns* (*of the day *is a variation, I believe).

_Meaning_
Have  many more happy days, especially birthdays.

_Origin_
Since  the 18th century this has been used  as a salutation to offer the  hope that a happy day being marked would recur many more times. It is  now primarily used on birthdays; prior to the mid 19th century it was  used  more generally, at any celebratory or festive event.

The first record I can find of it in print is  in a letter written by Lady Newdigate in 1789 (published in  _Newdigate-Newdegate  Cheverels_ in 1898): "Many happy returns of ye day to us my Dr  Love."


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## arueng

Many happy returns of the day!


Hi,

I think the above is similar to "Happy Birthday," but what does it really mean? I suppose "the day" refers to "the birthday," but how can we conclude that the birthday star will be happy on that day? Thanks.


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## Myridon

"Returns" refers to the birthday (the date) returning in future years.  In other words: May you have many more happy birthdays.


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## arueng

Thanks, Myridon, for the clear explanation.

But the premise is that the birthday star must be happy on this birthday, right?


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## panjandrum

A "return of the day" is another birthday.
May you have many more birthdays, and may each of them be happy.

That wonderful, but frequently ignored, resource - the WordReference "Dictionary and thread title search" would have told you more.
I added today's question to the previous thread(s) on this topic.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=576439


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## Cagey

arueng said:


> Many happy returns of the day!
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think the above is similar to "Happy Birthday," but what does it really mean? I suppose "the day" refers to "the birthday," but how can we conclude that the birthday star will be happy on that day? Thanks.


Generally, we don't say this _instead_ of "Happy birthday". First we say "Happy birthday", which is a wish that the day be happy.  Then we say, "and many happy returns of the day", which has the meaning explained above.   

When you hear "Many happy returns of the day!" by itself, that usually means that the person saying it assumes that the wish will be understood even if it is not said.


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## arueng

panjandrum said:


> A "return of the day" is another birthday.
> May you have many more birthdays, and may each of them be happy.
> 
> That wonderful, but frequently ignored, resource - the WordReference "Dictionary and thread title search" would have told you more.
> I added today's question to the previous thread(s) on this topic.


Thanks, Pan, for the reply and help.



Cagey said:


> *Generally, we don't say this instead of "Happy birthday". First we say "Happy birthday", which is a wish that the day be happy. Then we say, "and many happy returns of the day", which has the meaning explained above. *
> 
> When you hear "Many happy returns of the day!" by itself, that usually means that the person saying it assumes that the wish will be understood even if it is not said.


 
Thanks, Cagey, for the explanation.

Got it!


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## panjandrum

I had heard this expression for many years, and even perhaps used it, before I thought of wondering what it meant.  Indeed, I suspect that the first time I thought seriously about it was in 2006 when the question arose here.

I said "... and perhaps even used it".
On reflection, though I have often read this on birthday cards, I don't believe I have ever said it to anyone.
Is this just another example of me being odd - or do others use this expression naturally and as a matter of routine?


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## HSS

Kelly B said:


> Many happy returns... of the day.
> May you have many of these occasions (birthdays, anniversaries), implying a long life.


I've never seen or heard it written or said, respectively, for someone having an occasion other than his birthday. Could this expression be used on some other occasion without being felt unnatural or weird?

'Merry Christmas, and many happy returns!'
--- Nehhh, this sounds not right, doesn't it?


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## Myridon

HSS said:


> I've never seen or heard it written or said, respectively, for someone having an occasion other than his birthday. Could this expression be used on some other occasion without being felt unnatural or weird?
> 
> 'Merry Christmas, and many happy returns!'
> --- Nehhh, this sounds not right, doesn't it?


No, it is only used for personal anniversaries (birthdays and wedding anniversaries).  Christmas will return whether you are alive or not so this doesn't wish you a long life (or a long marriage).


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## HajiSahib

Hi!
I've a question!

*Many happy returns of the day.*

Can we use the singular "return", i.e., _Happy *return* of the day_? I think we can, because the meaning will still be the same.

Please give your thoughts.

Thanks.


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## sound shift

No. "Many happy return*s*" is a fixed expression. It can't be modified.


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## heypresto

After your 'Happy returning' thread, it now feels as if you are trying hard to find a context in which we might say 'Happy return'.


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## HajiSahib

heypresto said:


> After your 'Happy returning' thread, it now feels as if you are trying hard to find a context in which we might say 'Happy return'.


You badly misunderstood me, HP.
Here my question is totally different. Here I am asking about whether I can use the singular "return" in a *birthday wish.*

I've put the thread "Happy returning!" in the rest.


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## sound shift

Just to be clear (I hope!): "Happy return" cannot be used in a birthday wish.


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## heypresto

OK. Well, no, I'm afraid you can't.



(I've put the thread "Happy returning!" in the rest to bed)


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## HajiSahib

sound shift said:


> Just to be clear (I hope!): "Happy return" cannot be used in a birthday wish.


I think I again have been misunderstood.

I am asking about "Happy return of the day" (a birthday wish), not just "Happy return". And I am referring to the same meaning of "return" in "Happy return of the day" as in "Happy return*s* of the day".


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## heypresto

The answer is still _no_.

"Happy return of the day" 
"Happy are return of the day"


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## Andygc

HajiSahib said:


> Here I am asking about whether I can use the singular "return" in a *birthday wish*


*Many *happy *returns *= may your birthday *return many times* as a happy event = may you live for many years and have many happy birthdays.

Happy return - Perhaps we expect your funeral less than one year after your next birthday.


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## HajiSahib

Andygc said:


> Perhaps we expect your funeral less than one year after your next birthday.


How does "Happy return" imply this?

I don't understand what you want to say.


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## Kelly B

Return, as you've typed it, is *singular*. Wishing a person only *one *return sounds odd. Returning also sounds odd, because we're talking about a set or fixed expression.


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## heypresto

Many happy return*s* = _many_ more birthdays.
Happy return = _one_ more birthday.

Forget 'Happy return'.


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## AnythingGoes

I'd never thought about the original meaning of _many happy returns of the day_ until I read this thread. But understanding it or not, it would be odd to wish someone only a single return when everyone else wishes them many. It would be akin to telling someone _Enjoy the party a little!_


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## HajiSahib

heypresto said:


> Happy return = _one_ more birthday.


Wishing someone only one happy return implies that you don't want to see them after their next birthday? You want them to die?


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## AnythingGoes

HajiSahib said:


> Wishing someone only one happy return implies that you don't want to see them after their next birthday? You want them to die?


I would not have understood it that way because I'd never thought of what _return_ means in the expression. But it would be a really odd thing to do, given that the usual wish is for many of them.


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## heypresto

It was meant light-heartedly. 

We _*never* _say 'Happy return'. Nobody has ever thought of saying it, or what it might mean if we were to say it - until today.


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## velisarius

"Many happy returns" is the equivalent of "I wish you a  *long life".*

I was told here that "Many happy returns" is an outdated expression in BE. Is this so?


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## HajiSahib

velisarius said:


> Is this so?


Don't you know this? You _are_ a BE speaker!


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## velisarius

One can get out of touch, you know.

People say "Happy birthday" to me, but I've no idea whether it's common nowadays to say "Many happy returns of the day", as many people used to do when I was much younger. I suspect that young people hardly use it at all. Much of what they say is impenetrable to me, anyway.


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## heypresto

It's certainly not as common as the simple 'Happy birthday', but I wouldn't say it's wholly outdated. A little formal perhaps?

The question was "Can we use the singular "return", i.e., Happy return of the day?", to which we have all said 'no'. We've said you _can_ say 'Many happy return*s*', but that's not to say that it's common, or that we would say it in preference to 'Happy Birthday'.


Cross-posted.


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## Edinburgher

heypresto said:


> We _*never* _say 'Happy return'.


We might say it after Brexit.


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## heypresto




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## Andygc

HajiSahib said:


> Wishing someone only one happy return implies that you don't want to see them after their next birthday? You want them to die?


No, I don't want somebody to die, but I don't say "Happy return". Saying "Happy return"* in the context of a birthday greeting* is, quite simply, not only not idiomatic, but ridiculous. I told you what "Many happy returns" actually means. What do you think "Happy return" could possibly mean?  Perhaps "I wish you one more birthday"    It is completely meaningless to me.


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## JamesM

I fully endorse Andygc's response.

Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of "many happy returns".  We are not talking about the present.  We are talking about the future.  We hope that this celebration (your birthday) returns many more times for you in your life.  It's similar to "May you live a long and happy life".


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