# 在一起 / 一起



## anialuo

Hi, I got confused about the pair在一起 and 一起, do they both mean "together", as in the sentences: 
我和父母在一起居住 and 我和父母一起居住？
Btw, 在一起 and 一起can be also put at the end of the sentences above, can't they?
thanks in advance!


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## fyl

我和父母在一起居住
我和父母一起居住
我和父母居住在一起
我和父母居住一起
The three correct ones are roughly the same: I live together with my parents.

Edit: Another correct sentence is 我和父母住一起.


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## Sun14

^As regards all of the sentence, "我和父母居住在一起" sounds most natural to me.


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## SuperXW

在 is a preposition similar to "at". It can also function as a verb to mean "be at...situation". 在一起 is a common expression to describe the situation of "being together".
一起 is an adverb means "together". In Chinese, an adverb should be put before the verb (一起居住). Otherwise, it usually needs an auxiliary to be put behind (居住在一起).
Therefore, 居住一起 is wrong. 一起居住,在一起居住, 居住在一起 are all correct.
But colloquially we can say 住一起. Since it's informal spoken language, 住 is used instead of 居住, and 在 can be omitted.


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## Sun14

I come across a more concise and cogent one: “我和父母住”.

In Chinese, we often take "住" as a substitute for "居住" and there is no need to highlight “一起”.


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## anialuo

Thank you all for the replies, they are very useful to me.



Sun14 said:


> I come across a more concise and cogent one: “我和父母住”.
> 
> In Chinese, we often take "住" as a substitute for "居住" and there is no need to highlight “一起”.



Wow, “我和父母住” I have never seen such sentence and if I was asked if it's correct, I'd say it lacks something,like 在一起 As it can be seen in the example, language is very flexible


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## Sun14

^In China, educated people tend to use Chengyu. See the definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengyu. And they try to say something in a poetic way which in every language would be featured as clear, concise and cogent. Chengyu is a good example. It is characterized by four-letter phrases which contain some philosophy or ways of doing something. Trust me. Trying to say things in a clear way in Chinese always means avoiding using more words.


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## Skatinginbc

anialuo said:


> Wow, “我和父母住” I have never seen such sentence and if I was asked if it's correct, I'd say it lacks something,like 在一起


It does not sound very "natural" to me, either, although I would not go so far as claiming it to be incorrect.  Normally, I would have said 我跟父母住 "I live _with _my parents" (a prepositional phrase).  According to 漢典, 用作介词时，口语中常用“跟”，用作连词时，一般倾向于用“和”，较少用“跟”.  In other words, people tend to intuitively interpret 跟 as "_with_" and 和 as "_and_" in conversation.  我和父母住 thus sounds like "My parents _and_ I live", which seems to "lack something" or, to be specific, miss the word "together" 在一起 (as in "My parents and I live _together_").


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## Sun14

^I believe people would find nothing wrong with the sentence like: 我没住学校宿舍，我和父母住. They are natural expressions in China. People don't need to add something that is almost contained in the original sentence. I believe the verb is China is more expressive than English, thus the adverbial phrase is not always necessary.


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## SuperXW

I also find 我和父母住 very natural and idiomatic. Although it lacks a context, we can easily imagine situations such as 我没住学校宿舍，我和父母住 or 你和谁住？我和父母住 or 我和父母住，不方便叫你来玩儿。


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## Messquito

在一起＝be together *at the same place*  (Verb+adj.) ("in the same place", or figuratively, being "in a relationship")
一起＝together (adv.) (could mean "*at the same place*","*at the same time*" or "*in agreement/accordance*"...)

在一起 focuses on the fact of "*being in the same space*", whereas 
一起 focuses on "*doing the same thing*", which provides more meanings:

我們在一起住/我們住在一起 We are together living at the same place.=We live together in the same house.
我們一起住 We live together. = We live together in company with each other. (We have to learn to get along with each other, and all that)
(我們住一起 sounds kind of Westernized, a little like how some people would say "你走先", "他們睡一起", in my country, Taiwan, I seldom hear this kind of sentences.)

他們在一起下棋 They are/were together playing chess.
他們一起下棋 They play chess together.

他們在一起唱歌 They sang together. = They sang at the same place.
他們一起(=一齊)唱歌 They sang together. = They sang in accordance. = They sang at the same time.

他們在一起說話 They are/were together, talking(with each other)
他們一起說話 They spoke together. = They spoke at the same time

他們在一起放屁 They are together, farting. = They are farting at the same place.
他們一起放屁 They farted at the same time, in accordance with each other.

他們一起登上那座山 They climbed up the mountain together.
他們在一起登上那座山 登上 is a verb that you cannot give it a place.

他們在一起旅遊 They are/were together, traveling.
他們一起旅遊 They travel together.

我們一起*去*看電影 Let's go watch a movie together.
我們在一起去看電影 The verb 去(go) is not an action that actually happens in a place.


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## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> Although it lacks a context...


But context is important in this case.  It provides further grammatical clues and thus eliminates the structural ambiguity that results in the sense of "oddness".  For instance,
我和父母住, 不方便叫你来玩儿 = 我和父母住 + 我不方便叫你来玩儿 ==> The subject is 我, not 我和父母.  And therefore 和父母 is interpreted as a prepositional phrase.
我和父母住在一個大農場, 養了許多豬 ==> I would naturally interpret it as 我和父母住在一個大農場 + 我們養了許多豬.  The subject is 我和父母.


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> But context is important in this case...


At least I won't feel 我和父母住 "odd" or "unnatural". I agree with you on the tendency of using 和 and 跟, but I don't feel it matters that much on this case.
I believe in Mainland China, without sufficient context, people would naturally understand 我和父母住 as 我跟父母住, without a problem.
How about the question "你和谁住？" Do you feel it natural? Or do you need a context?



Skatinginbc said:


> 我和父母住, 不方便叫你来玩儿 = 我和父母住 + 我不方便叫你来玩儿 ==> The subject is 我, not 我和父母.  And therefore 和父母 is interpreted as a coordination.
> 我和父母住在一個大農場, 養了許多豬 ==> I would naturally interpret it as 我和父母住在一個大農場 + 我們養了許多豬.  The subject is 我和父母.


Yes, they are interpreted differently, as they should be. But I still don't see any real problem here. 和 can be used in either way. 
跟 can also be used in either way. It does not affect understanding your examples.
Talking about ambiguity, 跟 has another connotation which is "follow". It also creates some ambiguity, doesn't it?


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## Skatinginbc

你和谁住 has a clear structural context for 和 due to the existence of 谁 "whom".
My parents and I own a farm (coordination) ==> With whom 谁 do you own a farm?  Because of 谁, we know easily that 和 in 你和谁住 is a preposition.


SuperXW said:


> without sufficient context, people would naturally understand 我和父母住 as 我跟父母住, without a problem.


I didn't say it would cause unintelligibility.  What I was trying to say is: When I hear 我和父母住, I expect something more to come because my intuitive interpretation for 和 is "and".  If the sentence _abruptly_ stops there, I would be able to go back and change my interpretation to "with", but that "abruptness" translates into an "odd" feeling.


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## SuperXW

可能有点扯远了。我的意思很简单，在内地，“我和父母住”作为楼主“我和父母在一起居住”的简略说法，是自然的，不会造成理解障碍。当然，可能在其他地方用法习惯不同。


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## Sun14

^I agree with you. I consider the naturalness and conciseness is the essential elements in speaking and writing. Over-analysis would only makes the sentence clumsy and make the reader don't know what they are talking about. I believe the the evolvement of language should be more and more clear and easy to follow.



Skatinginbc said:


> 你和谁住 has a clear structural context for 和 due to the existence of 谁 "whom".
> My parents and I own a farm (coordination) ==> With whom 谁 do you own a farm?  Because of 谁, we know easily that 和 in 你和谁住 is a preposition.
> 
> I didn't say it would cause unintelligibility.  What I was trying to say is: When I hear 我和父母住, I expect something more to come because my intuitive interpretation for 和 is "and".  If the sentence _abruptly_ stops there, I would be able to go back and change my interpretation to "with", but that "abruptness" translates into an "odd" feeling.



You could provide more context for us to compare 我和父母住 and 我和父母一起住, but all you provide is quite a different case, which won't be helpful in distinguishing the uses between what the OP want.


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## Skatinginbc

我的意思很简单，對我而言, 「我和父母住」在無上下文的情況下作為楼主「我和父母在一起居住」的简略说法，是不自然的，就好樣「我與父母同住」 (同住 = 一起居住)是自然的, 「我與父母住」作為一個獨立句子, 就聽起來不很自然.


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## Sun14

但是沒有語境的話，討論這個問題就沒任何意義。大家學語言的心裡明白，語境是判斷一切用語的基礎必備。


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## Skatinginbc

正因如此, 所以我解釋為什麼「我和父母住, 不方便叫你来玩儿」是自然的, 然而沒前沒後的「我和父母住」, 是不自然的.  我又解釋為什麼沒前沒後的「你和谁住」是可以成立的--因為它是麻雀雖小, 五臟俱全. 我強調的就是語境.


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## Sun14

其實過多的解釋反而不利於學漢語的朋友，既然強調語境，那麼沒有語境的假設不是空穴來風嗎？


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 正因如此, 所以我解釋為什麼「我和父母住, 不方便叫你来玩儿」是自然的, 然而沒前沒後的「我和父母住」, 是不自然的.  我又解釋為什麼沒前沒後的「你和谁住」是可以成立的--因為它是麻雀雖小, 五臟俱全. 我強調的就是語境.


你的英语解释比较专业。英文不好的我努力研究之后，还是没太看懂。
反正闲着，继续跟你纠结一下……
不明白为啥“你*和谁*住”的结构完整，而“我*和父母*住”结构不完整……？在我看来，*正因为没有了下文，我们便可自然排除其他可能，正确理解句意。*
不明白为啥“我和父母*一起住*”不再需要语境，而“我和父母住”需要……？*我们同样不会没前没后地说“我和父母一起住”啊*？
不明白为啥“我*跟*父母住”自然，而“我*和*父母住”不自然……？汉典既然说了“跟”“和”用法的“一般倾向”，就代表实际上两种都可以用。我认为*此处用“和”尤其可被接受，原因：*
“跟父母”可能造成一种“跟从父母”的理解，*“和”字前后关系更平等*，很多人下意识地避免用“跟”。这也解释了为什么在正式书面语中，“和”更常被用作介词。就因为“跟”可能被理解成一种从属关系吧？


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## stephenlearner

Skatinginbc said:


> 正因如此, 所以我解釋為什麼「我和父母住, 不方便叫你来玩儿」是自然的, 然而沒前沒後的「我和父母住」, 是不自然的.  我又解釋為什麼沒前沒後的「你和谁住」是可以成立的--因為它是麻雀雖小, 五臟俱全. 我強調的就是語境.




你和谁住？
我和父母住。

你和谁住？
我和父母住在一起。

我现在跟人合租，几个人住在一起。你呢？
我和父母住。
我和父母住在一起。

我现在和同事住。你呢？
我和父母住。

我现在和同事*住在一起*。你呢？
我和父母住。
我和父母住在一起。

注： 不表示不能这样说，也不表示没有人这样说，只是我觉得别扭。


There are some differences between 在一起 and 一起。
I think 在一起 emphasizes that you stay with somebody, you are with somebody, but 一起 stresses that you do something together with somebody.

For instance, We can 在一起，without 一起做事。
Dad and Mom 在一起, in the living room, but they don't 一起做事. Dad is surfing on the Internet, and Mom is reading a book.

we can 一起做事 without 在一起。
You are in Poland, and I am in China. we can 一起 discuss an issue, or chat on the Internet, by the Skype, but we are not 在一起。


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## brofeelgood

stephenlearner said:


> There are some differences between 在一起 and 一起。
> I think 在一起 emphasizes that you stay with somebody, you are with somebody, but 一起 stresses that you do something together with somebody.
> 
> For instance, We can 在一起，without 一起做事。
> Dad and Mom 在一起, in the living room, but they don't 一起做事. Dad is surfing on the Internet, and Mom is reading a book.
> 
> we can 一起做事 without 在一起。
> You are in Poland, and I am in China. we can 一起 discuss an issue, or chat on the Internet, by the Skype, but we are not 在一起。



Makes sense.

在一起 = physically together = together at the same place
当我们同*在一起* = When we are *together at the same place*

一起 = together with
跟谁*一起*居住 = live *together with* somebody
跟他*一起*做事 = work *together with* him


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## Sun14

stephenlearner said:


> 我现在和同事住。你呢？
> 我和父母住。
> 
> 我现在和同事*住在一起*。你呢？
> 我和父母住。
> 我和父母住在一起。



I believe these two sentences are perfectly correct and idiomatic in Chinese. I would understand them without any hesitation.


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## SuperXW

^显然我的经验也是这样。

尤其是下面这两种回答，在我听来，第二种才不自然。
我现在和同事*住在一起*。你呢？
我和父母住。
我和父母住在一起。
也没有不自然啦，有点罗嗦。


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## stephenlearner

SuperXW said:


> 尤其是下面这两种回答，在我听来，第二种才不自然。
> 我现在和同事*住在一起*。你呢？
> 我和父母住。
> 我和父母住在一起。
> 也没有不自然啦，有点罗嗦。


我把“住在一起”标为粗体，是表示说话的时候语气放在“住在一起”。
你以这样的语气反复读一下“我现在和同事*住在一起*”，然后再看回答者说“我和父母住”是否自然。


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## seanhu

^你有点太钻牛角尖了，实际上一般生活中，没有人会注意到这两种说法的区别的。
我比较同意SuperXW的说法，*我和父母住在一起*，太过书面化，反而有点不自然，日常生活中，尤其是口语，我们更偏向于*我和父母住*。


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## Sun14

我和父母住 我同父母住

都是很簡單，很精鍊的表達方式，這是語言演變的方向。


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