# Hindi-Urdu: dedicate



## amiramir

Hi,

What word do people commonly use for 'to dedicate' as in 'I am dedicating this song to my grandmother.' Or 'This book is dedicated to my children,?'

I looked it up in the dictionary, but there were a lot of words with no notes on context.

I have only heard dedicate karna...

Thanks,
aa


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## Maharaj

"Samarpit Karna" : to dedicate
However this is very formal, just simply say "Main ye song apni nani/dadi ko dedicate kar raha hoon"


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## Fk313

In urdu we would say "Main yeh gazal/sher/kitab mere chahne waalo ko *nazar *karna chahta hu.
Dedicate = Nazar


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## Alfaaz

Fk313 said:
			
		

> In urdu we would say "Main yeh gazal/sher/kitab mere chahne waalo ko *nazar *karna chahta hu.
> Dedicate = Nazar


Corrections:

The correct pronunciation is نذر - _nazr_, but many speakers do pronounce it with two syllables. 

Note: For those who cannot read Urdu script and might wonder, this is a separate word/has a spelling different from نظر - _nazar _meaning _vision, etc._
It should be _maiN apne chaahne waaloN ko_ instead of _maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko_.


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## Fk313

@Alfaz this can be said either ways.
Does not matter whether it's
_maiN apne chaahne waaloN _ *or *_maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko. _
_It does not realy make any difference.
Nusrat Fateh Ali khan and Aziz Mian both have said numerous times in their live shows "Main mere chahne waalon ko yeh sher nazar karta hu. 

Nazar is an urdu word and  there is no specific spelling for it in English. It can be said either ways but I agree on what you said it can be eaiser for non-native speakers to discriminate.

Dedicate  | Urdu Meaning of Dedicate
http://hamariweb.com/dictionaries/dedicated_urdu-meanings.aspx
Meaning of nazr | Rekhta_


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## Alfaaz

Fk313 said:
			
		

> @Alfaz this can be said either ways.
> Does not matter whether it's
> _maiN apne chaahne waaloN _*or *_maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko.
> It does not realy make any difference._


 This usage is considered grammatically incorrect in both Urdu and Hindi. The following is a relevant thread, which I made after observing a few speakers using such odd constructs: Urdu/Hindi: mujhe/mein mere.


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## aevynn

The use of मेरे _mere_ instead of अपने _apne_ in this situation does sound kind of grating to my ear too, but if there are native speakers who are using these kinds of constructions, it could just be that this is just an aspect of Hindi-Urdu grammar that's in flux. A possible explanation for this grammatical shift could be increasing influence of English, since English doesn't really have a direct analog to the reflexive possessive अपना _apnaa_. The closest thing I can think of is phrases like "my own," but these are overly emphatic — saying "I want to dedicate this to my own friends" is awkward because it sounds like the friends to whom you're dedicating are only your friends and no one else's friends, or something awkward like that. A similar emphatic effect can usually be achieved in Hindi using a double possessive like मेरा अपना _meraa apnaa_. For example, a reasonable translation of "I wish I had a house of my own" could be काश कि मेरा अपना घर होता _kaash ki meraa apnaa ghar hotaa_. Usually, in situations where Hindi-Urdu would use the reflexive possessive अपना _apnaa_, English would just use a regular possessive like "my" or "her." So if this aspect of English grammar has started influencing Hindi-Urdu grammar, one might expect usages like मैं मेरे चाहने वालों को… _maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko _to be on the rise.

Anyway! Returning to the topic at hand... I've seen समर्पित करना _samarpit karnaa_ in dedications in the beginnings of books, but I also often just see names followed by के लिए _ke liye _(or sometimes को _ko_) in this context (not unlike saying "to my children" or "for my children" on the dedication page)


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## desi4life

^ This reminds me of the grammatical confusion English speakers (including native ones) have with "you and I" vs. "you and me", "would have" vs. "would of" (latter is never correct), "who" vs. "whom", "if I were" vs. "if I was", "they're" vs. "their" vs. "there", etc. I often notice these types of mistakes in daily conversations, TV shows, and movies.


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## Fk313

Alfaaz said:


> This usage is considered grammatically incorrect in both Urdu and Hindi. The following is a relevant thread, which I made after observing a few speakers using such odd constructs: Urdu/Hindi: mujhe/mein mere.


Ohh! Common Alfaaz you are saying "Main mere chahne waalo" you mean "main mere" is grammatically incorrect.
"Mere" hamesha khudki cheez ya Milkiyat ko kaha jaata hai. 
"Apne" zaroori nahi apni khudki milkiyat main aatey ho kissi aur ki bhi aasakte hai.
1) Apne log hi apne kaam aatey hai. 
Yaha *apne* dono bolne aur sunney wale ke ek hi  ho sakte hai. Agar main kahu ki *mere hi log mere kaam aatey hai *_toh fir yeh hoga ki sunney wale ke aur bolne waale ke log alag hai._
2) Hume toh apno ne luta hai
Yaha pe shayar keh raha hai mere apno ne luta hai mujhe.
3) Main mere chahne waalo ka.......
Chahne waale mere apne hai, mujhe khaas kar chahte hai... Toh apne kaho ya mere kaho koi baat nahi.
*This usage is quite quite common in Urdu and Hindi. *
I don't wish to say anything further.

Thankyou.


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## littlepond

"samarpit karnaa" is not all that obsolete: it is in fact used quite a lot. Much more than the very weird-sounding "dedicate karnaa" (i.e., weird-sounding to even this speaker who otherwise mixes English a lot in his Hindi).

"Mujhe mere" ... thankfully, I haven't heard it before! That is quite horrible. The use of "apnaa" is a beauty of Hindi language.


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## Fk313

littlepond said:


> "samarpit karnaa" is not all that obsolete: it is in fact used quite a lot. Much more than the very weird-sounding "dedicate karnaa" (i.e., weird-sounding to even this speaker who otherwise mixes English a lot in his Hindi).
> 
> "Mujhe mere" ... thankfully, I haven't heard it before! That is quite horrible. The use of "apnaa" is a beauty of Hindi language.



If you just do normal search on internet you will find numerous Hindi songs, poems, Qawwali and Gazal which say or use "Mujhe mere" in reference to " Mujhe mere Rab se, Mujhe mere yaar/pyaar etc.
Main mere Rabb se, Mere mere khuda se, etc.

I am surprised you haven't heard this usage before.


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## Aryaved

Maharaj said:


> "Samarpit Karna" : to dedicate
> However this is very formal, just simply say "Main ye song apni nani/dadi ko dedicate kar raha hoon"



Just because the Sanskritized Hindi word is used, it is formal? Or is it formal for people that don't know the proper word in Hindi? Lol, this word is not formal. I hear it and read all the time!


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## Sheikh_14

In


Fk313 said:


> If you just do normal search on internet you will find numerous Hindi songs, poems, Qawwali and Gazal which say or use "Mujhe mere" in reference to " Mujhe mere Rab se, Mujhe mere yaar/pyaar etc.
> Main mere Rabb se, Mere mere khuda se, etc.
> 
> I am surprised you haven't heard this usage before.


In poetry and speech idiosyncratic and vernacular forms of language can be used. That being said from what I've gathered they aren't objecting to constructs like mujhe mere or mujhe apne but rather maiN mere, which just sounds a tad odd since you are repeating the same thing twice which may occur in particular vernaculars, but is not the standard way of speech. If it's common in your dialect than so be it and feel free to provide instances in poetry in which such a construct is used for context, but I too have not come across it. It is possible that it has caught on amongst people in the qawwaalii fraternity, who knows. Mujhe apne would sound better. Moving on to the primary subject matter.

Nazr karnaa is indeed the most common form of to dedicate. Intisaab is the Urdu term for dedication which derives from descend so in a way one passes or bequeaths a dedication down to you . Can you say intisaab karnaa chaahtaa hooN? Can a dedicational song be an intisaabii gaanaa?  Lastly how about waqf karnaa and would a dedicational poem, song or piece of work be nazrii/waqfii ghazal, gaanaa, shehr and so on and so forth?


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## Qureshpor

Fk313 said:


> Ohh! Common Alfaaz you are saying "Main mere chahne waalo" you mean "main mere" is grammatically incorrect.
> "Mere" hamesha khudki cheez ya Milkiyat ko kaha jaata hai.
> "Apne" zaroori nahi apni khudki milkiyat main aatey ho kissi aur ki bhi aasakte hai.
> 1) Apne log hi apne kaam aatey hai.
> Yaha *apne* dono bolne aur sunney wale ke ek hi  ho sakte hai. Agar main kahu ki *mere hi log mere kaam aatey hai *_toh fir yeh hoga ki sunney wale ke aur bolne waale ke log alag hai._
> 2) Hume toh apno ne luta hai
> Yaha pe shayar keh raha hai mere apno ne luta hai mujhe.
> 3) Main mere chahne waalo ka.......
> Chahne waale mere apne hai, mujhe khaas kar chahte hai... Toh apne kaho ya mere kaho koi baat nahi.
> *This usage is quite quite common in Urdu and Hindi. *
> I don't wish to say anything further.
> 
> Thankyou.


No, it is not common in Urdu at all. In fact I would go as far as to say that this is exclusively a Hindi phenomenon.


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> The use of मेरे _mere_ instead of अपने _apne_ in this situation does sound kind of grating to my ear too, but if there are native speakers who are using these kinds of constructions, it could just be that this is just an aspect of Hindi-Urdu grammar that's in flux.


I believe it is Hindi grammar that is "in flux" and not Urdu on this issue.


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## Qureshpor

Fk313 said:


> @Alfaz this can be said either ways.
> Does not matter whether it's
> _maiN apne chaahne waaloN _ *or *_maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko.
> It does not realy make any difference.
> Nusrat Fateh Ali khan and Aziz Mian both have said numerous times in their live shows "Main mere chahne waalon ko yeh sher nazar karta hu.
> 
> Nazar is an urdu word and  there is no specific spelling for it in English. It can be said either ways but I agree on what you said it can be eaiser for non-native speakers to discriminate.
> 
> Dedicate  | Urdu Meaning of Dedicate
> http://hamariweb.com/dictionaries/dedicated_urdu-meanings.aspx
> Meaning of nazr | Rekhta_


If Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Aziz Mian have used "maiN mere chaahne waaloN ko", then this does not make this grammatically correct. To Urdu speakers it does make a difference. One is wrong and the other is right.

The correct word, as Alfaaz SaaHib has indicated, is "nazr" even though some people may pronounce it as "nazar". In correct Urdu, there is a distinction between نظر and نذر. 

An analagous example is the word "dharm" which some people may pronounce as "dharam". But strictly speaking the correct word is "dharm". Having said this, no one is stopping you from writing or speaking in a manner you feel fit.


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## Qureshpor

Fk313 said:


> In urdu we would say "Main yeh gazal/sher/kitab mere chahne waalo ko *nazar *karna chahta hu.
> Dedicate = Nazar


In Urdu we don't use the postposition "ko" but "kii" and we Urdu speakers would say..

maiN yih Ghazal/shi3r/kitaab apne chaahne vaaloN kii nazr karnaa chaahtaa huuN.

Other ways of saying "dedicate" in Urdu are:-

vaqf karnaa

naam karnaa

mansuub karnaa 

A nazm of Faiz Ahmed Faiz entitled "intisaab" (Dedication) begins with the lines..

aaj ke naam
aur aaj ke Gham ke naam


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> I believe it is Hindi grammar that is "in flux" and not Urdu on this issue.



Given that some of both Hindi and Urdu speakers are equally likely to exhibit this change, one would say that both Hindi and Urdu grammars are in flux on this. Of course, neither Hindi nor Urdu grammar textbooks as of today would recommend it.


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> Given that some of both Hindi and Urdu speakers are equally likely to exhibit this change, one would say that both Hindi and Urdu grammars are in flux on this. Of course, neither Hindi nor Urdu grammar textbooks as of today would recommend it.


I haven't come across this usage by Urdu speakers. Perhaps if either of you (you and @desi4life) could provide me examples of Urdu speakers employing this usage, I would be most grateful to you.


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## desi4life

^ Well, @Fk313 jii is an Urdu speaker who seems to employ this usage and he/she provided examples of the Urdu-speaking Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Aziz Mian using it too.


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## aevynn

It's hard to find examples of this usage searching in both the Urdu script and in Devanagari, and on Rekhta and on Gadyakosh/Kavitakosh, so I don't think this is by any means a _common_ construction on either side of the Hindi-Urdu "divide." I did however find this ghazal on Rekhta written by a young Urdu poet named Amaan Abbas, containing the following line:

ik raaz thaa maiN mere 3ayaaN hone se pahle​
I think this qualifies as a usage of the relevant type of construction since the _mere_ is part of a clause whose matrix subject is _maiN_. A neutral prose-y form of the above line might be _maiN mere 3ayaaN hone se pahle ik raaz thaa_, whereas I expect most people would rather just say _maiN (apne?) 3ayaaN hone se pahle ik raaz thaa_. 

Anyway, as I said, I found it hard to find examples of this in either script (and in "either" language), so maybe it's not worth dwelling on unless/until it becomes more than the somewhat fringe phenomenon that it is now


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> ^ Well, @Fk313 jii is an Urdu speaker who seems to employ this usage and he/she provided examples of the Urdu-speaking Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Aziz Mian using it too.


Well, he has mentioned these two names but has not provided any audio/video examples and I don't dispute he is an Urdu speaker. With due respect to you and to Fk313, I am afraid, Urdu speakers do not use "fir" for "phir", "wargish" for "w/varzish" and masculine gender for 3ainak (search under "aynak"). This may be due to Hindi influence, I don't know. In another thread, Gope SaaHib gave a piece of Urdu prose and asked a question about a particular word. Fk313 said, "Please help me with the name of the gazal/poem." An Urdu speaker would be able to differentiate a piece of prose from a "gazal" (Ghazal).


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> It's hard to find examples of this usage searching in both the Urdu script and in Devanagari, and on Rekhta and on Gadyakosh/Kavitakosh, so I don't think this is by any means a _common_ construction on either side of the Hindi-Urdu "divide." I did however find this ghazal on Rekhta written by a young Urdu poet named Amaan Abbas, containing the following line:
> 
> ik raaz thaa maiN mere 3ayaaN hone se pahle​
> I think this qualifies as a usage of the relevant type of construction since the _mere_ is part of a clause whose matrix subject is _maiN_. A neutral prose-y form of the above line might be _maiN mere 3ayaaN hone se pahle ik raaz thaa_, whereas I expect most people would rather just say _maiN (apne?) 3ayaaN hone se pahle ik raaz thaa_.
> 
> Anyway, as I said, I found it hard to find examples of this in either script (and in "either" language), so maybe it's not worth dwelling on unless/until it becomes more than the somewhat fringe phenomenon that it is now


Thank you for making an effort, at least, aevynn SaaHib. I have frequently heard on Indian TV programmes, use of "mere" where grammatically correct format would be "apne" but I have not come across this usage in Pakistani media.

ik raaz thaa maiN, mere 3ayaaN hone se pahle

is grammatically correct and "apne" would not fit here.

"mere 3ayaaN hone.." is the declined form of "meraa 3ayaaN honaa"

This is like saying...

mere biimaar hone se pahle maiN siHHat-yaab thaa.


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> I don't dispute he is an Urdu speaker.


If you do not dispute he is an Urdu speaker, isn't the matter closed? There are _some_, or at least one, Urdu speaker(s) who do use this construction.



Qureshpor said:


> I am afraid, Urdu speakers do not use "fir" for "phir", "wargish" for "w/varzish" and masculine gender for 3ainak (search under "aynak"). ... An Urdu speaker would be able to differentiate a piece of prose from a "gazal" (Ghazal).



Those are tall, sweeping statements, as if you have met every single Urdu speaker of this world. I am assuming you have not, and hence you cannot claim that. (In case you have, please feel free to correct me.) I personally have met many Urdu speakers who commit all the above "sins." Whether it is due to influence from Hindi speakers or not is immaterial: they are and self-identify as Urdu speakers.


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## Qureshpor

^ Let's see what @desi4life has to say about my comments. You are a Hindi speaker and he is an English speaker (it seems) and we are talking about Urdu. Perhaps his non-aligned views may make some sense.


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## Pokeflute

aevynn said:


> It's hard to find examples of this usage searching in both the Urdu script and in Devanagari, and on Rekhta and on Gadyakosh/Kavitakosh, so I don't think this is by any means a _common_ construction on either side of the Hindi-Urdu "divide."



I'm assuming by "this usage" you mean "maiN mere" (instead of "maiN apne")?

I can attest that I have encountered several Hindi speakers who do this (informally - in formal situations they use "maiN apnaa"). FWIW one also does not speak English.

Sorry to distract from the larger discussion - just wanted to affirm this phenomenon does exist, at least in my experience.

EDIT: As an actual example, I just remembered, in 3 idiots, when they go to Shimla, Raju tells Fahran "(mujhe) teraa baTuvaa de" (when the expected construction would be "(mujhe) apnaa baTuvaa de". Here is a link - it is on page 154 of the screenplay.


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## aevynn

Pokeflute said:


> As an actual example, I just remembered, in 3 idiots, when they go to Shimla, Raju tells Fahran "(mujhe) teraa baTuvaa de" (when the expected construction would be "(mujhe) apnaa baTuvaa de". Here is a link - it is on page 154 of the screenplay.


Thanks for this, this is a nice example  I've probably seen this movie several dozen times and never thought twice about this line, so I'm sure I've also just missed this construction being used around me many many times!


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## littlepond

Pokeflute said:


> As an actual example, I just remembered, in 3 idiots, when they go to Shimla, Raju tells Fahran "(mujhe) teraa baTuvaa de" (when the expected construction would be "(mujhe) apnaa baTuvaa de". Here is a link - it is on page 154 of the screenplay.





aevynn said:


> Thanks for this, this is a nice example  I've probably seen this movie several dozen times and never thought twice about this line, so I'm sure I've also just missed this construction being used around me many many times!



I concur with @aevynn jii: @Pokeflute jii's example from _3 Idiots _is excellent! I, too, have seen the movie numerous times, and I didn't even think about it, I didn't even find it odd! The phenomenon is more entrenched among Hindi-Urdu speakers (at least, those of India) than what I was thinking!


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