# 又...又...(极了)



## xiaolijie

Hi,

This sentence is perfectly understandable to me:

小猫*又*淘气*又*可爱极了.

But I also know that native speakers probably won't say it this way (perhaps because of the addition of 极了). Can experienced speakers please share with me: why does the addition of 极了 seems to spoil the sentence? Can the sentence be corrected but still keep the original meaning?
(This is my version: 小猫很淘气,也很可爱 but then, it is not of the original 又...又... construction!)

Thanks,


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## Lamb67

极了 seems to spoil the balance of the sentence.又...又... simply means two things at the same level.


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## xiaolijie

Lamb67 said:


> 极了 seems to spoil the balance of the sentence.又...又... simply means two things at the same level.


Thanks Lamb67. That is one of the things I suspected but it doesn't seem to be the only, because the following has got the balance but does NOT seem to be ok:

小猫*又很*淘气*又很*可爱.
Anyone think this sentence is ok?
(Or: 她又非常漂亮又非常聪明。  )


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## alfred5000

她又非常漂亮又非常聪明。
It seems quit unnatural. You can say "她即漂亮又聪明".


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## Kyle_Chan

You can say "小貓又淘氣又可愛" and "她又漂亮又聰明"


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## xiaolijie

alfred5000 said:


> You can say "她*即*漂亮又聪明".


Is this correct? Shouldn't it be 她*既*漂亮又聪明?


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## smile angel

Hi,

淘气 is some kind of expression, how to say, like an irony. For example, a girl may say: 你真坏 to his boyfriend. You can't understand her meaning like her boy friend is bad. It just an act like a spoiled brat, very lovely. 

淘气 is this kind of word. It is always used in this way: 你太淘气了 or  你怎么这么淘气呀！。 A kind of affection and love is expressed, but literally a kind of criticism. 

Literally, 淘气 is a derogatory term, actually, has a good connotation, express a kind of love. However, 可爱 is not this kind of phrase. it is a epithet one, simply means lovely.
So, they 're not the same kind of phrases, but 又...又 is a construction to express two kind of similar characters. Like, 她又漂亮又善良, or 这菜又贵又难吃。 

So, I don't think 又...又... is a good construction to express your meaning. You can use 虽然...但是（却）... . like this, 小猫虽然很淘气，却（但是）可爱极了。Or you can simply say: 小猫真淘气，太可爱了。

You know, native speakers don't alwys say 极了 in spoken Chinese. It is a written phrase to highlight the degree. In oral Chinese, you can use 太，真，特别，相当....with a tone of emphasis.

它特（别）可爱!
那菜相当好吃!
太漂亮了!
all mean 极了。

Just my own opinion. Hope can help you to some certain degree.


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## BODYholic

smile angel said:


> 她又漂亮又善良, or 这菜又贵又难吃。



Granted that the last few contributions have their merits, you guys (or gals) are not answering the thread-starter question to the point.

Take those examples cited by you, do we native speakers say "她又*很*漂亮又*很*善良" or "这菜又*非常*贵又*非常*难吃"? If we don't, why not? Are they grammatically incorrect or otherwise.

I can't say for the rest, I'm quite certain that I won't utter those. It just sounds so strange, but I can't really tell why.


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## alfred5000

xiaolijie said:


> Is this correct? Shouldn't it be 她*既*漂亮又聪明?


 
It's absolutely correct that we use "即.... 又...". And in fact "即... 又..." is much more wildly used than "又...又".

 "又...又..." is Mostly ued in short phrase, especially for one character adjectives .
For example:
又大又红 又大又甜 又好又快 又矮又胖 又惊又喜
one of the two adjectives contains two characters is also OK. 
又好又便宜  

For the adjectives contain more than one character, we usually use 即...又...
这小孩即听话又懂事
这衣服即好看又便宜


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## xiaolijie

@Alfred, before you try again to teach others all the wrong things, could you please go home and learn the difference between *即* and *既:* 
"即"和"既(ｊì)"的形、音、义都不同。是 "既.... 又..." 而不是 "即.... 又..."
既能文又能武.


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## Ghabi

xiaolijie said:


> 她又非常漂亮又非常聪明。


I don't know, but can you say "she is both very pretty and very clever" in English?


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## BODYholic

alfred5000 said:


> It's absolutely correct that *we* use "即.... 又...". And in fact "即... 又..." is much more wildly used than "又...又"


And who are 'we'? 

Both words have different tone and, in fact, their meanings are not even marginally related.


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## xiaolijie

Ghabi said:


> I don't know, but can you say "she is both very pretty and very clever" in English?


Yes, you can, and that is the reason I asked 

And from my observation of Chinese, it seems the "又...又..." construction doesn't permit "modifications of degree" type (such as very, relatively,...). On the otherhand, the question of balance as mentioned by Lamb in one of the posts above doesn't appear to be a real issue. For example:
必须又能干又富于怜悯之心。


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## Jerry Chan

xiaolijie said:


> Yes, you can, and that is the reason I asked
> 
> And from my observation of Chinese, it seems the "又...又..." construction doesn't permit "modifications of degree" type (such as very, relatively,...). On the otherhand, the question of balance as mentioned by Lamb in one of the posts above doesn't appear to be a real issue. For example:
> 必须又能干又富于怜悯之心。



While it's not an issue, balance is considered a beauty in Chinese.
So, we usually like to make it a balanced one:
又能幹又善良
不但聰明能幹，而且宅心仁厚


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## Jerry Chan

xiaolijie said:


> @Alfred, before you try again to teach others all the wrong things, could you please go home and learn the difference between *即* and *既:*
> "即"和"既(ｊì)"的形、音、义都不同。是 "既.... 又..." 而不是 "即.... 又..."
> 既能文又能武.



Maybe he did mean 'wildly used'!


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## Ghabi

xiaolijie said:


> And from my observation of Chinese, it seems the "又...又..." construction doesn't permit "modifications of degree" type (such as very, relatively,...).


I think you're right. And it's the same in Cantonese.

For example, a girl may tell me, "你又窮又樣衰(=ugly)又乞人憎(=off-putting),我點會鍾意(=like)你呀", and she won't add the word 好(=very) before the adjectives, no matter how poor/ugly/off-putting I am.

I'd like to know whether this also holds true in other dialects.


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## xiaolijie

Ghabi said:


> "你又窮又樣衰(=ugly)又乞人憎(=off-putting),我點會鍾意(=like)你呀", and she won't add the word 好(=very) before the adjectives, no matter how poor/ugly/off-putting I am.


You're the lucky guy then. Congratulations!  

By the way, your sentence "你又窮又樣衰又乞人憎" illustrates well my point about balance in this construction: it's a desirable feature but the sentence is not unacceptable without it.


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