# Goal, goalkeeper, to score (to mark?) a goal



## ThomasK

I am just wondering what words you use to refer to those three - and some background on the origin and other uses of the word are welcome. 

My starting point was Italian (and Spanish): a goalkeeper is a portiro, I believe, Seems so funny: goalkeepers are not supposed to open their "gate"/ door at any time, I think. But OK; 

Dutch: 
(a) Waar is *het doel*? (Where is the goal? - _ also the word for _objective, target, purpose_)_
(b) *De doelman, - vrouw/ keeper* (the goal man/ woman)
(c)  Ik heb  *een doelpunt gescoord *(I have scored a goal/ ...)


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## symposium

In Italian the goal in a football game is called "porta", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "portiere", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "segnare un goal (to score a goal)".


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## apmoy70

In Greek one's _objective, target, purpose in life_ is *«σκοπός»* [skɔˈpɔs] (masc.) < Classical deverbative masc. noun *«σκοπός» skŏpós* --> _spy, guard, scout, goal, purpose_, o-grade of deponent v. *«σκέπτομαι» sképtŏmai̯* --> _to look around, look back, spy, contemplate, consider, survey_ (PIE *speḱ- _to see sharply, spy_ cf Skt. पश्यति (paśyati), _to examine, view_, Lat. specere, Av. spasiieiti, _to see_).

The _goal_ in football is usually *«τέρμα»* [ˈter.ma] (neut.) < CLassical neut. noun *«τέρμα» térmă* --> _finish (of a race-course), end, highest point_ (PIE *terh₂- _to cross_ cf Skt. तर्मन् (tarman), _top of sacrificial post_, Lat. terminus). Often the transliterations of Eng. _goal_ *«γκολ»* [ˈgɔl], or _goalpost_ *«γκολπόστ»* [gɔlˈpɔst] (neut. nom. pl. indecl.), are used instead.

The _goalkeeper_ is *«τερματοφύλακας»* [ter.ma.tɔˈfi.la.kas] (masc. & fem.) = compound, oblique *«τερματο-»* [ter.ma.tɔ-] as first part in compounds, of neut. noun *«τέρμα»* [ˈter.ma] (see above) + masc./fem. *«φύλακας»* [ˈfi.la.kas] --> _guard, attendant, warden, custodian_ < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun *«φύλαξ/φύλακος» pʰúlăks* (nom. sing.)/*pʰúlăkŏs* (gen. sing.) --> _watcher, guard, sentry, protector_ (of unknown etymology, Beekes considers it Pre-Greek).

To score a goal: *«Σκοράρω γκολ»* [skɔˈɾa.ɾɔ ˈgɔl] or *«σημειώνω τέρμα»* [si.miˈɔ.nɔ ˈter.ma] --> _to achieve a goal_.
The former is colloquial, the latter is more formal. «Σκοράρω» is from the Eng. v. _to score_. The v. «σημειώνω» [si.miˈɔ.nɔ] --> _to put a mark, write a note, pay attention, achieve (an outcome)_ is denominative < Classsical neut. noun *«σημεῖον» sēmeî̯ŏn* --> _mark, sign, toke, omen, standard/flag_ (of unknown etymology).


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## marrish

ThomasK said:


> (c) Ik heb *een doelpunt gescoord *(I have scored a goal/ ...)


It seems it's a calque from English – could you perhaps indicate some earlier or synonymous Dutch verbs?


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## ThomasK

Een doelpunt maken (to make)...


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## ThomasK

symposium said:


> In Italian the goal in a football game is called "*porta*", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "*portiere*", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "*segnare *un goal (to score a goal)".


 I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.

I am beginning to think that scoring_, *marquer un but *_in French_, *segnare, σημειώνω,*_ all refer to marking ( sign) on a board. Could that be true?



apmoy70 said:


> In Greek one's _objective, target, purpose in life_ is *«»* [skɔˈpɔs] (masc.) < Classical deverbative masc. noun *«σκοπός» skŏpós* --> _spy, guard, scout, goal, purpose_, o-grade of deponent v. *«σκέπτομαι» sképtŏmai̯* --> _to look around, look back, spy, contemplate, consider, survey_ (PIE *speḱ- _to see sharply, spy_ cf Skt. पश्यति (paśyati), _to examine, view_, Lat. specere, Av. spasiieiti, _to see_).
> 
> The _goal_ in football is usually *«»* [ˈter.ma] (neut.) < CLassical neut. noun *«τέρμα» térmă* --> _finish (of a race-course), end, highest point_ (PIE *terh₂- _to cross_ cf Skt. तर्मन् (tarman), _top of sacrificial post_, Lat. terminus). Often the transliterations of Eng. _goal_ *«γκολ»* [ˈgɔl], or _goalpost_ *«γκολπόστ»* [gɔlˈpɔst] (neut. nom. pl. indecl.), are used instead.


 That reminds me, @apmoy70 :
*- τερματοφύλακας r*eminds me of a_ Torwart _in German,_ doelwachter,_ an older word in Dutch, all meaning "goal guard" or "goal keeper"
- can a *σκοπός* not be called* a τέρμα : *a target as some kind of end?


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## sound shift

The "door" imagery is present in pronounced form in the Turkish word for the goal: _kale_, which means "castle"_. _The goalkeeper is the _kaleici_: the keeper of the castle, which he must of course defend.


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## ThomasK

Wow, very, very interesting! After goalkeepers as porters, now goalies as keepers of the castle! Thanks!


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## Welsh_Sion

Plenty of *Welsh* words for *'goal' *in the sense of *'objective'.*

So let's stick to football/soccer.

*gôl* - a goal (from English)
*gôl geidwad* - goalkeeper (Lit. 'goal guardian')
*golwr* - goalkeeper (Lit. 'goal' + Wel. 'man'. Sorry, females)

*sgorio gôl *- to score a goal (from English)
*sgoriwr (gôl) *- a goal scorer (from English + Wel. 'man')

You know, I presume, @ThomasK, that English* 'to score' *is actually to make a hick (usually in wood) in order to render a count (*'to make a score'/'scoring'*.) See Cambridge Dictionary: 'To score'  to make a mark or cut on the surface of something hard with a pointed tool, or to draw a line through writing:

Subsequently, in older English, but still current in some expressions,* score = 20* (cf. 'three score years and ten is the life of Man in the Bible, i.e. 70 years.)

This could go back to a Celtic substrate, as the traditional way of counting in Welsh is vigesimal - i.e. base 20. (That's probably a thread in itself).

_____________________

I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.

Colloquial* English*: A goal ('the object that is defended' NOT 'the point earned') = 'the onion basket'


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## Stoggler

Welsh_Sion said:


> *golwr* - goalkeeper (Lit. 'goal' + Wel. 'man'. Sorry, females)



Golwraig, perhaps?


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## Welsh_Sion

My apologies to all females and @Stoggler.

GyrA (*'y Brws'*) does indeed refer to* 'golwraig' *as a feminine form for a 'female goalkeeper'. Here's me thinking something like that had to be invented. Cf Bruce's comments on* -wr *and *-wraig* nouns:

"Nouns ending in -wr/ydd in Welsh, corresponding generally to nouns in *-or/-er *in English, are always masculine, even when referring to women; likewise nouns such as meddyg, *doctor, *plentyn, *child *and so on. However, nouns in -ydd may have a corresponding feminine form in -yddes, plural -yddesau. Likewise for every noun ending in -wr there may be a corresponding feminine form in -wraig, plural -wragedd. While some are very commonly used, others are much less so, and some exist only in principle. They have been listed where considered to be in use."

Personally, I think a form like *gyrwraig* ('female driver') can 'exist only in principle'. But, if others use it, and are happy to use it in contradistinction to *gyrrwr* ('male/generic driver'), then so be it.

Cyfarwyddiadau’r geiriadur print | Geiriadur yr Academi (geiriaduracademi.org)


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> That reminds me, @apmoy70 :
> *- τερματοφύλακας r*eminds me of a_ Torwart _in German,_ doelwachter,_ an older word in Dutch, all meaning "goal guard" or "goal keeper"
> - can a *σκοπός* not be called* a τέρμα : *a target as some kind of end?


Yes it can, not a word related to footbal though, not used at all


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## Awwal12

Russian:
goal (football) - гол (gol)
goalkeeper - вратарь (vratár', lit. "gater")
to score a goal - забить гол (zabít' gól, lit. ~~"to beat a goal in").


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## Circunflejo

Spanish:

Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: gol, tanto, diana... and the goal itself: portería, puerta, meta, arco...
Goalkeeper: portero (the one in charge of the portería), guardameta (literally the guard of the goal), cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus), arquero (the one in charge of the arco). 
Score a goal: marcar un gol/tanto/diana...


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## Olaszinhok

symposium said:


> The actual score in a football game is called "goal"


I would also say* rete, *which is quite common in Italian. _Segnare una rete_/ to score a goal. _Rete_ is also the "goal net", hence rete/goal.


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## ThomasK

Welsh_Sion said:


> Plenty of *Welsh* words for *'goal' *in the sense of *'objective'.*


 But when I was younger, I started a thread on that here... Topic: goal = end?



Circunflejo said:


> Spanish:
> 
> Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: _gol, tanto, dia_na... and the goal itself: p_ortería, puerta, meta, arco_...
> Goalkeeper: _portero_ (the one in charge of the portería), _guardameta_ (literally the guard of the goal), cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus), _arquero _(the one in charge of the arco).
> Score a goal: _marcar un gol/tanto/dian_a...


Some questions on some words, if I may:
- porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?
- arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?
- meta: the finish?
- tanto: something like marker?
- diana: the bull's eye?



Awwal12 said:


> to score a goal - забить гол (zabít' gól, lit. ~~"to beat a goal in").


 Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)


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## ThomasK

Welsh_Sion said:


> You know, I presume, @ThomasK, that English* 'to score' *is actually to make a hick (usually in wood) in order to render a count (*'to make a score'/'scoring'*.) See Cambridge Dictionary: 'To score'  to make a mark or cut on the surface of something hard with a pointed tool, or to draw a line through writing:
> 
> Subsequently, in older English, but still current in some expressions,* score = 20* (cf. 'three score years and ten is the life of Man in the Bible, i.e. 70 years.) This could go back to a Celtic substrate, as the traditional way of counting in Welsh is vigesimal - i.e. base 20. (That's probably a thread in itself).
> 
> _____________________
> 
> I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.
> 
> Colloquial* English*: A goal ('the object that is defended' NOT 'the point earned') = 'the onion basket'


 _The hick_: something like these? 

_To score_: I suppose the first meaning will be something like to carve (...), but then the sheep may have been counted by (...) 20? (etymonline.com). No trace of that in Germanic languages, I guess... 

After gates and castle gates we now also have an onion basket! Great!)


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)


Actually, English 'beat' doesn't necessarily imply using hands only at all. Of course, there are some semantic and aspectual nuances, but the main thing is that the Russian counterpart of 'kick' is being used much less eagerly - more generalized verbs are usually preferred.


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## apmoy70

Circunflejo said:


> Spanish:
> 
> Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: gol, tanto, diana... and the goal itself: portería, puerta, meta, arco...
> Goalkeeper: portero (the one in charge of the portería), guardameta (literally the guard of the goal), *cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus)*, arquero (the one in charge of the arco).
> Score a goal: marcar un gol/tanto/diana...


Often sport-section newspaper titles, used in the past this kind of poetic, grandiloquence language:
"So-and-so was like Cerberus guarding his hearth".
The word for _goal_ then, was *«ἑστία»* [eˈsti.a] (fem.) --> _hearth_; in Ancient Greek culture, the central altar in the middle of the house was the *«ἑστία» hĕstíā* (fem.), the focal point of the house, where a fire was always kept alive as an offering to the goddess *«Ἑστία» Hĕstíā* (Lat. Vesta), protectress of the household.


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## Circunflejo

ThomasK said:


> porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?


 Portería is the place in which is located the portero and the portero could be understood as the guy in carge of the puerta; i.e.: the guy who says who/what passes through the door and who/what doesn't (the best example would be the one at the entry of a discoteque). Due to the shape of soccer goals, it makes more sense to translate puerta to English like gate instead of the usual door.


ThomasK said:


> arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?


 Most likely but it's a term used in the Americas and I'm not too familiar with it.


ThomasK said:


> meta: the finish?


 Most likely because it makes more sense that to understand it as goal, objective.


ThomasK said:


> tanto: something like marker?


 I'm not sure. It could come from the locution: apuntarse un tanto=to have a/one success in relation with something. Or maybe the locution is due to the fact that _tanto _is used as a unit of measure (to count) in some games. I don't know. Sorry.


ThomasK said:


> diana: the bull's eye?


The shooting target. The bull's eye would be the blanco.


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## Welsh_Sion

Apologies, my memory mis-served me. Scrub "Onion Basket" and read "Onion Bag". See this now discontinued Soccer magazine based on that idea for a goal:

Onion Bag 1994 (soccerbilia.co.uk)


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## ThomasK

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting information or additions! (But more remains welcome!)

Linking the goal with Estia reminded of SoundShift's gatekeeper of the castle in #7...


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## Kaoss

symposium said:


> In Italian the goal in a football game is called "porta", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "portiere", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "segnare un goal (to score a goal)".


Same thing in Spanish. Portero means "goalkeeper" or "concierge", depending on the context.


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## Kaoss

ThomasK said:


> But when I was younger, I started a thread on that here... Topic: goal = end?
> 
> Some questions on some words, if I may:
> - porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?
> - arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?
> - meta: the finish?
> - tanto: something like marker?
> - diana: the bull's eye?
> 
> Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)


- Arco: Arc. Not used in spain but in argentina and other american countries. Also the goalkeeper would the an "arquero" or archer/bowman.
- Portería: Is the entrance hall of a building.
- Meta: Goal. In sports is the finish line. Because the goal of a race is to reach the "meta". ;-)
- Tanto: scoring point. Used in cardgames, for exmple.


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## apmoy70

Kaoss said:


> Same thing in Spanish. Portero means "goalkeeper" or "concierge", depending on the context.


Thank you for reminding me that sometimes Greek sport-casters use instead of «τερματοφύλακας» the bad Italian *«πορτιέρο»* [portˈçe.ɾɔ] (masc.) for _goalkeeper_, while the concierge is *«πορτιέρης»* [portˈçe.ɾis] (masc.) which is the hellenized form of the Italian _portiere_


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