# 52.5% der Wähler (pronunciation)



## dimhollow

*How would you say this decimal here in daily speech, perhaps zweiundfünfzig komma fünf Prozent? Or should it be komma halb Prozent?

Thanks in advance,
DIMHOLLOW.*


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## Kajjo

_/zweiundfünzig-komma-fünf/ Prozent der Wähler...

/zweiundfünzig-ein-halb/ Prozent der Wähler...
_
Both spoken forms are valid and equivalent!

EDIT: With regards to the following weird discussion, please see resolution in #22. Both forms are valid and equivalent.


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## Schimmelreiter

@dimhollow
_52.5  _(Das hast Du geschrieben): _52 mal 5
52,5_: _52 Komma 5

_


Kajjo said:


> /zweiundfünzig-ein-halb/ Prozent der Wähler...


ist keine Dezimalzahl, sondern die Aussprache eines gemischten Bruchs (52 ½) und kommt daher hier nicht in Betracht.
_

_


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## Sepia

Schimmelreiter said:


> @dimhollow
> _52.5  _(Das hast Du geschrieben): _52 mal 5
> 52,5_: _52 Komma 5
> 
> _
> ist keine Dezimalzahl, sondern die Aussprache eines gemischten Bruchs (52 ½) und kommt daher hier nicht in Betracht.
> _
> _



Bingo! So ein Fehler hat mal eine Ariane Rakete gekostet. Wenn von Englisch ins Deutsche und in viele andere Sprachen übersetzt wird, müssen auch die Dezimalpunkte in Kommata geändert werden.

Und die Trennzeichen auch bei vier- und mehr als vier-stellige Zahlen auch: Eintausend = 1.000. One Thousand = 1,000


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## Schimmelreiter

Ich dachte, Tausenderpunkte und Millionenkommata wären veraltet. Ich mach' sie natürlich: _1,600.000_


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## ablativ

Schimmelreiter said:


> @dimhollow[/USER
> 
> ist keine Dezimalzahl, sondern die Aussprache eines gemischten Bruchs (52 ½) und kommt daher hier nicht in Betracht.
> [I]
> [/I]



Warum eigentlich nicht? Man sagt doch auch [I]anderthalb, dreieinhalb Prozent [/I]usw[I].
[/I]
Gerade habe ich noch gelesen: [I]Die AfD ist wieder auf zehneinhalb Prozent zurückgefallen.
[/I]
Sind die oben genannten Prozentsätze richtig und nur fünfzigeinhalb falsch oder alle?

PS: Woher die blaue, unterstrichene Darstellung kommt, weiß ich nicht. Sorry!


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## Kajjo

Schimmelreiter said:


> ist keine Dezimalzahl, sondern die Aussprache eines gemischten Bruchs (52 ½) und kommt daher hier nicht in Betracht.


Formal hast du natürlich recht, wenn man GENAU DAS aussprechen will, was dasteht.

Aber in der Alltagssprache ist es absolut üblich und meines Erachtens auch richtig, "52.5" als "zweiundfünfzig-einhalb" auszusprechen.

Gerade bei 1.5% würde fast JEDER wohl automatisch im Alltag (außerhalb von Finanzen, Mathematik, Technik, Naturwissenschaft) "eineinhalb Prozent" lesen.


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## dimhollow

Kajjo said:


> Formal hast du natürlich recht, wenn man GENAU DAS aussprechen will, was dasteht.
> 
> Aber in der Alltagssprache ist es absolut üblich und meines Erachtens auch richtig, "52.5" als "zweiundfünfzig-einhalb" auszusprechen.
> 
> Gerade bei 1.5% würde fast JEDER wohl automatisch im Alltag (außerhalb von Finanzen, Mathematik, Technik, Naturwissenschaft) "eineinhalb Prozent" lesen.



So, if I understand you right, it's really more common to say: "Zweiundfünfzig komma einhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien."?


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## Hutschi

It's really  common to say: "Zweiundfünfzigeinhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien."  (without "Komma")

I fully agree with Kajjo here on usage.

There is a border for this usage when you have larger numbers.
I would not say "Hunderteinhalb" or "Tausendeinhalb".

Es gibt einen kleinen Unterschied:

Zweiundfünfzigkommafünf Prozent suggeriert sehr große Genauigkeit.
Zweiundfünfzigeinhalb Prozent hat einen etwas größeren Unschärfebereich, könnte also auch 52,4 und 53,6 mit einer gewissen Wahrscheinlichkeit mit erfassen.

Wenn das von Bedeutung ist, muss man die entsprechende Form wählen.


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## dimhollow

Hutschi said:


> It's really  common to say: "Zweiundfünfzigeinhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien."  (without "Komma")
> 
> I fully agree with Kajjo here on usage.



Without Komma then; thank you all very much!


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## berndf

dimhollow said:


> So, if I understand you right, it's really more common to say


No. It is not _more _common, it is _also _common. (Of course without "Komma" as Hutschi said.)


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## Schimmelreiter

Hutschi said:


> It's really common to say: "Zweiundfünfzigeinhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien."


It's very common but it's not written as _52,5_. It's written as _52 ½.
apple _is very common but it's not written as _orange._


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## dimhollow

Schimmelreiter said:


> It's very common but it's not written as _52,5_.
> 
> _apple _is very common but it's not written as _orange._




So let's sum it all up: 

Zweiundfünfzigeinhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien
or:
Zweiundfünfzig komma fünf Prozent...


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## Kajjo

dimhollow said:


> So, if I understand you right, it's really more common to say : "Zweiundfünfzig komma einhalb Prozent der Wähler stimmten für die Regierungsparteien."?


No, I agree with Berndf, it's not _more_ common, but it is _also _common. Further, when reciting election results this might be seen as quite mathematical, statistical issue and thus, "zweiundfünfzig-komma-fünf" could be more appropriate, as it conveys more accuracy.

However, in everyday spoken language I believe, e.g. "2,5" would be spoken as "zweieinhalb" in most cases. This is really much more common than "zwei-komma-fünf", e.g. "zweieinhalb Liter Saft", "zweieinhalb Äpfel" or something like that. Note the difference between election statistics and household context.


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## Kajjo

Schimmelreiter said:


> It's very common but it's not written as _52,5_. It's written as 5_2 ½._


You are formally right, but nowadays I _very _rarely see anyone writing "2_½"_, but they still speak "zweieinhalb". This might be inconsistent, but it's reality.

In the real world, people speak "2.5" as "zweieinhalb" quite frequently.


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## Schimmelreiter

Kajjo said:


> 2.5


is no decimal number. _2,5 _is.


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## Kajjo

Schimmelreiter said:


> is no decimal number. _2,5 _is.


Again, you are formally right, but using a point instaed of comma is absolutely accepted and in scientific context even preferred. We should clearly distinguish between handwriting (every German always uses comma), typesetting for books, science and so on.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> It's very common but it's not written as _52,5_. It's written as _52 ½.
> apple _is very common but it's not written as _orange._





Schimmelreiter said:


> is no decimal number. _2,5 _is.


In my understanding this has never been the point. The question was how you would pronounce the *value *52.5%, not how you would read the written representation "52,5%" aloud.


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## Hutschi

It may be that there is a drift now.
We have newer electronic weighing scales.
Here we always read the decimals.
In earlier times we had to move a weight at the balance.
(Wir mussten ein Gewicht an der Waage bewegen oder auf die Waage stellen.) Here we saw directly _½_ at the weight or longer lines at _½=0,5 _.


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## Schimmelreiter

The thread title is _52.5 % [sic] der Wähler_, probably from a newspaper article. I, for one, intuitively read this as _52 Komma 5._


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## Kajjo

Schimmelreiter said:


> he thread title is _52.5 % [sic] der Wähler_, probably from a newspaper article. I, for one, intuitively read this as _52 Komma 5_


So do I. See #2. Everything said.


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## berndf

Schimmelreiter said:


> The thread title is _52.5 % [sic] der Wähler_, probably from a newspaper article. I, for one, intuitively read this as _52 Komma 5._


Yes, of the *value *52.5.

But I see where you are coming from. I have often noticed a different approach in Austria and Germany concerning the representation of values (numbers, dates or times). If I said _Bitte schreibe: "Ich komme um halb acht"_ to an Austrian he would probably write down _Ich komme um ½ 8._ To most Germans this would look weird. They would write_ Ich komme um 19:30_. While in Austria the way you pronounce a value and the way you spell it are still mentally connected, this is not the case any more for most Germans: _19:30_ is the written representation of that time of the day and _halb acht_ is the spoken representation. The same here. You would write either_ 52,5%_ or _52.5%_, depending on your professional background but you would say _zweiundfünfzig Komma fünf_ or _zweiundfünfzig einhalb_ without relating the two in any way other than that they represent the same actual value.


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## Hutschi

Hi, we have some small computers showing the English form, even here, we say "komma" in this context.

There are numbers especially confusing:

9.000 (computer) =9,000=9

In large numbers usually we use spaces for formatting:

9 000 000,50

Sometimes also following form is used.

9.000.000,50 - this may cause errors in German for smaller numbers like 9.000=9000 or =9 ?

For the decimal separator we always say "komma", even if there is "." (punkt).

I am not sure if we spell the "." separator in 9.000.000,50


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## Hutschi

berndf said:


> Yes, of the *value *52.5.
> 
> But I see where you are coming from. I have often noticed a different approach in Austria and Germany concerning the representation of values (numbers, dates or times). If I said _Bitte schreibe: "Ich komme um halb acht"_ to an Austrian he would probably write down _Ich komme um ½ 8._ To most Germans this would look weird. He would write_ Ich komme um 19:30_. While in Austria the way you pronounce a value and the way you spell it are still mentally connected, this is not the case any more for most Germans: _19:30_ is the written representation of that time of the day and _halb acht_ is the spoken representation ...



In case of 8:15 or 8:45 it is even more confusing. It has regionally very different pronunciations.  It is often discussed, so I show the link  Uhrzeit (Sprechweise)


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## Schimmelreiter

berndf said:


> But I see where you are coming from. I have often noticed a different approach in Austria and Germany concerning the representation of values (numbers, dates or times). If I said _Bitte schreibe: "Ich komme um halb acht"_ to an Austrian he would probably write down _Ich komme um ½ 8._ To most Germans this would look weird. They would write_ Ich komme um 19:30_. While in Austria the way you pronounce a value and the way you spell it are still mentally connected, this is not the case any more for most Germans: _19:30_ is the written representation of that time of the day and _halb acht_ is the spoken representation. The same here. You would write either_ 52,5%_ or _52.5%_, depending on your professional background but you would say _zweiundfünfzig Komma fünf_ or _zweiundfünfzig einhalb_ without relating the two in any way other than that they represent the same actual value.


Thank you very much. I wasn't aware this was a regional thing.


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## Kajjo

berndf said:


> this is not the case any more for most Germans: _19:30_ is the written representation of that time of the day and _halb acht_ is the spoken representation.


 Exactly. Very well phrased. 



berndf said:


> You would write either_ 52,5%_ or _52.5%_, depending on your professional background but you would say _zweiundfünfzig Komma fünf_ or _zweiundfünfzig einhalb_ without relating the two in any way other than that they represent the same actual value.


 Again, perfect content and well phrased. 

I am glad, Schimmelreiter accepted your reasoning since I ran out of arguments. The issue of "value" was so self-explaining to me in itself and I did not know that Austrians might have a different perspective -- nor did I know that Schimmelreiter was Austrian.

Thanks for this clarification!


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## Kajjo

One more thread in which #2 would have been sufficient -- and much less irritating.


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## Schimmelreiter

Bernd having clarified the regional aspect, I find the discussion instructive. I also find your comment valuable that


Kajjo said:


> using a point instaed of comma is absolutely accepted and in scientific context even preferred


although you haven't convinced me. At Austrian schools, it's certainly marked wrong. I know because I'm the single parent of two boys aged 17 & 14, respectively. Is this regional, too?


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## berndf

I can't remember from my own school days. I can't remember it had ever been raised as a topic. I can ask my daughter. She attends a German school teaching the German curriculum. But as it is an German school in a foreign country, they may be more relaxed.


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## Kajjo

In handwriting we all use comma as decimal separator, I believe. Here theory and practice fit together. I agree with Berndf, that comma/point has never been an issue in school. I cannot really imagine that it would be marked wrong to use a point.

In typesetting most scientists nowadays use the decimal point (one example).


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## ablativ

I'm in the USA right now. When I do online banking here, the transactions won't go through by using a komma. In Germany it's the other way round. Transactions with a point won't be accepted.


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