# Keyboards



## BlueWolf

What do you think about your national keyboard?

I've always thought Italian keyboard is horrible. It has not any special character needed in other languages (such accents, ñ, etc.) but ç, and even the spacial characters needed in Italian (à, è, é, ì, ò, ù) can't be typed in the capital form (so we have often to write E', or something like that).

On the other hand, I find some other keyboard fantastic, for example the Spanish one, which I use to write in Italian too!


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## Victoria32

BlueWolf said:


> What do you think about your national keyboard?
> 
> I've always thought Italian keyboard is horrible. It has not any special character needed in other languages (such accents, ñ, etc.) but ç, and even the spacial characters needed in Italian (à, è, é, ì, ò, ù) can't be typed in the capital form (so we have often to write E', or something like that).
> 
> On the other hand, I find some other keyboard fantastic, for example the Spanish one, which I use to write in Italian too!


Dreadful! I need the character map for accents and so I lazily tend not to use them except when strictly necessary - which has led to misunderstanding! 

I have an electronic typewriter which allows accents, which is ironic, as I hardly ever use it now!

VL


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## la reine victoria

My English one is fine for English but there are no keys with foreign accents.  Like Victoria, I have to use a chart for accents, but I'm always losing it so sometimes I don't bother with them.  




LRV


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## Miguelillo 87

The ones which are selled in Mexico, normally they have the Ñ (obviosly) and the form in order to make á, é, í, ó, ú and ü.

Some other you van do the cedille, and the circonflexe accent so the grave.
But in this one I cannot do any of this signs


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## emma42

As one would expect in a keyboard destined for the English market - no accents at all!  Thank goodness for the "Alt" key.


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## nhafedh

Hello,

I think that there will be more and more online virtual keyboard.

for example I like this one  annawwar.com quite simple to use to write arabic text without installaing any thing.

Hafedh,


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## emma42

Welcome to the Forum, nhafedh.

I will have a look at that, thanks.


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## Anatoli

The Russian standard keyboard is OK if you have stickers or you have in-bult Cyrillic letters next to Roman (in a different colour). It is a problem if you don't use this kind of  a keyboard, so I have to download a russifier that makes the keyboard layout phonetical, except for a small number of letters (easy to memorise the position of a few, rather than the bulk).

I find it is the same problem with Arabic and Korean native keyboards. The letters don't match the English letters, so you either have to have a  visual keyboard map in front of you (see below). I also use SC Unipad (also below).

For me it's easier to type in Chinese and Japanese than in Arabic because most common Chinese and Japanese inputs are phonetical and are based on roman letters.

Microsoft's Visual Keyboard:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...BA-E9F6-41DB-86EB-2ADFE407E620&displaylang=EN

SC Unipad - a nice program with a big variety of keyboards and input methods (you can create you're own):
www.sharmahd.com
You can try both for a variety of European and Asian languages (except for Chinese and Japanese - not enough keys).


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## Layzie

I have adapted my keyboard for 2 languages I want to learn. I have fun typing in cyrillic characters and arabic characters. 

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4267/image422vl9.jpg


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## Riccardino

American keyboards are the worst. I only have quick command of the Italian and French accents because I've typed them so many times with the ALT key plus the various 4 digit codes.


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## Nunty

My only complaint about the Hebrew keyboard is that semicolon is way up out of reach in the top left-hand corner. There is a just slim possibility, however, that most people don't use as many semicolons as I do.

On the other hand, I have a major problem with the French keyboard, which does not let me type accented capitals.


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## Etcetera

I like the Russian keyboard, it's really handy - when you type in English or in Russian. When it comes to typing in Finnish or Polish or Piedmontese, though, it's a nightmare. My keyboard allows me to type the special Finnish letters with diacritics, but the problem is that I just have to remember what key I should press to type this or that letter. 
I sometimes simply use a chart of accents. OpeOffice Writer has a very nice one.


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## Lemminkäinen

I _love_ our keyboard! 

We have our special letter æ, ø and å to the right, next to the p and l. To the right of them, there are two keys with only accents. One of them gives \ ` and ´ - the other ¨ ^ and ~. 

Also, there's one button for commas (semicolons if you press shift) and one for periods (colons if you press shift). Much better than the French or Russian, where you have to press shift + the key for period to get a comma


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## Fernando

With open exclamation mark (¡) at the right end on the keyboard and closing exclamation mak at the other end (shift+1), you will easily understand why Spanish speakers use so scarcy the ¡. 

Meanwhile apostrophe ('), which is almost useless in Spanish is easily reachable, closing question mark (?) is showed if you press shift+'.

Also easy is ç (useless, unless you speak Catalan).

Moreover, English speakers torture us to death with stroke (\), as AltGr+º or @ (AltGr+2). 

Inverted accent (à, not used in Spanish) is so easy as the á.

Greek, cyrilic alphabet, Nordic and Slavic letters can be displayed only using Alt+Num.


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## Hakro

Lemminkäinen said:


> I _love_ our keyboard!
> 
> We have our special letter æ, ø and å to the right, next to the p and l. To the right of them, there are two keys with only accents. One of them gives \ ` and ´ - the other ¨ ^ and ~.
> 
> Also, there's one button for commas (semicolons if you press shift) and one for periods (colons if you press shift). Much better than the French or Russian, where you have to press shift + the key for period to get a comma


Our keyboard is similar, except that we have ä and ö instead of æ and ø. 

The only problem is _cédille_ when writing French but I have learned to do it quickly by Alt+135 = ç and Alt+128 = Ç. I need no map.


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## RAPHUS CUCULLATUS

What are the cultural aspects of all these keyboards?

How do they reflect the basic values of your societies?

Do governments make rules about what is allowed to be on a keyboard?

Do people in your country take their keyboards for walks on leashes?

What should I consider when deciding which keyboard to study?

Can keyboard fluency be accomplished at home, or do I need to take a class?


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## Lemminkäinen

Hakro said:


> The only problem is _cédille_ when writing French but I have learned to do it quickly by Alt+135 = ç and Alt+128 = Ç. I need no map.



Yes, I forgot to mention that, but it's a problem, you're right about that. I just do a google search for "c cedille" and copy and paste what comes up


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## Hakro

RAPHUS CUCULLATUS said:


> What are the cultural aspects of all these keyboards? Different keyboards give different possibilities to communicate with other cultures.
> 
> How do they reflect the basic values of your societies? The basic right to express oneself is easy with a good keyboard.
> 
> Do governments make rules about what is allowed to be on a keyboard? Of course! For example a glass of smuggled booze on a keyboard is absolutely illegal.
> 
> Do people in your country take their keyboards for walks on leashes? Some people do; I take only my mouse for walks.
> 
> What should I consider when deciding which keyboard to study? You should first define your target and then choose a keyboard to fit.
> 
> Can keyboard fluency be accomplished at home, or do I need to take a class? You can do it at home if you work hard.


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## emma42

RAPHUS CUCULLATUS said:


> What are the cultural aspects of all these keyboards?The British keyboard plays Rule Brittania if given a piece of cheese.
> 
> How do they reflect the basic values of your societies?  The British keyboard says it cares about pensioners, but will not work properly if they try to use it.
> 
> Do governments make rules about what is allowed to be on a keyboard? Yes.  Some keyboards in this country do not have the letters t r o t s k y.
> 
> Do people in your country take their keyboards for walks on leashes? No.  we are too busy eating steak and kidney pies.
> 
> What should I consider when deciding which keyboard to study? Does it go with your new dress?
> 
> Can keyboard fluency be accomplished at home, or do I need to take a class?


 You need to take a class, which I can offer at the very reasonable rate of $516 per hour.


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## RAPHUS CUCULLATUS

> Different keyboards give different possibilities to communicate with other cultures.



Can't all keyboards type most alphabets and accents, if configured with software?  


Can a mouse be configured to type accents while on a leash?


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## Hakro

RAPHUS CUCULLATUS said:


> Can't all keyboards type most alphabets and accents, if configured with software?
> 
> Can a mouse be configured to type accents while on a leash?


As you have seen, it's easy with some keyboards and difficult with others.

I have never tried to configure a mouse for working on its spare time; in  Finland it's considered as cruelty to animals.


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## Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!

_Can't all keyboards type most alphabets and accents, if configured with software?
_Of course. I believe we're talking about the specific standard configurations in different countries.

Anyway, the standard Czech keyboard is a pretty extensive modification of the US standard, since we need quite a lot of "special" characters (the proliferation of the Latin alphabet was one of the biggest disservices Christianity has done to the world, and only in light of the modern globalized age can it be seen as something positive). It's naturally based on the standard typewriter layout, although typewriters somehow never implemented the magic AltGr key.

Here's what it looks like (on the layout with the reverse-L-shaped Enter key and the "short" Backspace, you know what I mean):

With Shift (NOT Caps Lock) on:
°1234567890%ˇ'
QWERTZUIOP/(
ASDFGHJKL"!
YXCVBNM?:_

With Caps Lock on:
;+ĚŠČŘŽÝÁÍÉ=´¨
QWERTZUIOPÚ)
ASDFGHJKLŮ§
YXCVBNM,.-

Without Shift on:
;+ěščřžýáíé=´¨
qwertzuiopú)
asdfghjklů§
yxcvbnm,.-

With AltGr (or Ctrl+Alt) on:
~ˇ^˘°˛`˙´˝¨¸¤
\|€-------÷×
-đĐ[]--łŁ$ß
-#&@{}-<>*
(the -'s mean nothing happens)

Now, as you can see:
* compared to the US keyboard, Y and Z are switched. This is the case in much of Central Europe; it's a German influence, I think.
* the numbers row is occupied by special characters in the lower case, as are some of the punctuation keys. There's no way to type them in uppercase directly; you either have to turn on Caps Lock or use the ´, ˇ, and ° keys (=, +, and ~ on the standard US keyboard) and then press the basic letter. This is also the only way to type less common accented letters, such as ó, ň or ť, as well as Slovak letters like ľ, ŕ, or letters with umlauts/diaeresis.
* there's no way to type things like <>, [], &, $, # or @ directly, you have to use the AltGr mode. This is the main flaw of the keyboard, which led to the development of a hybrid standard known as Česká programátorská [klávesnice] (the Czech Programmer's [keyboard]).
* the AltGr mode also provides diacritical marks and letters for a number of other European languages - mostly those that use Central European charsets, but with Unicode support installed in the operating system, languages such as French or Portuguese are possible too.

The keys usually have both their US layout values and the Czech values printed on them.


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## avalon2004

Greek keyboards are available and they generally correspond with the English letters, which makes them much easier to use than the Russian one!

I have noticed, however, that many places in Greece do not have these keyboards and thus you simply have to work out how to type each letter using the English (or German etc..) keyboard if they don't have stickers on them.


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## roxcyn

RAPHUS CUCULLATUS said:


> Can't all keyboards type most alphabets and accents, if configured with software?



Yes, Microsoft and Macintosh provide configuration in their software to "change the keyboard," but as you know, when you change the keyboard, the layout is different, so if you use more than one language you have to switch the keyboard or use the same keyboard for more than one language.


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## roxcyn

BlueWolf said:


> What do you think about your national keyboard?
> 
> I've always thought Italian keyboard is horrible. It has not any special character needed in other languages (such accents, ñ, etc.) but ç, and even the spacial characters needed in Italian (à, è, é, ì, ò, ù) can't be typed in the capital form (so we have often to write E', or something like that).
> 
> On the other hand, I find some other keyboard fantastic, for example the Spanish one, which I use to write in Italian too!



Ciao, hai ragione .  I use the Spanish keyboard for both Spanish and Italian because the Italian keyboard doesn't have the keys to type the letters like you were saying.


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## BlueWolf

roxcyn said:


> Ciao, hai ragione .  I use the Spanish keyboard for both Spanish and Italian because the Italian keyboard doesn't have the keys to type the letters like you were saying.



Yeah, I think Italian keyboard is really bad done! An other reason is this: since accented letters are quite rare, I never learnt by heart their position on the keyboard. So every time, I had to stop typing and look the keyboard in order to find the accented letter. With Spanish one, on the other hand, you've only to remember the position of the accents (so two position). 



Fernando said:


> With open exclamation mark (¡) at the right end on the keyboard and closing exclamation mak at the other end (shift+1), you will easily understand why Spanish speakers use so scarcy the ¡.
> 
> Meanwhile apostrophe ('), which is almost useless in Spanish is easily reachable, closing question mark (?) is showed if you press shift+'.
> 
> Also easy is ç (useless, unless you speak Catalan).
> 
> Moreover, English speakers torture us to death with stroke (\), as AltGr+º or @ (AltGr+2).
> 
> Inverted accent (à, not used in Spanish) is so easy as the á.
> 
> Greek, cyrilic alphabet, Nordic and Slavic letters can be displayed only using Alt+Num.



I think a big problem about the keyboards is that they all are too similar to the English one. Different languages should have a different layout, refletting the requirements of those languages. But they usually prefer to preserve the English layout, surrounding it with the extra letters.


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## ert

The only real difference between all these "different" keyboards is the built-in key map and the actual characters written on the keys. A keyboard is just a keyboard! If you use a public computer then I can understand how using one with a certain layout could cause problems, but if it's your home computer then it's really easy to set it up so that pressing any key will produce any character, or string of characters, that you like. You could even scratch off the paint on the keys and put your own new characters on them if you really wanted to.


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## Trina

I don't have any problems with writing accents etc if I am using a WORD document. My keyboard has the map but allows you to program shortcuts using the shift & control keys which I find much easier than switching from English to French keyboard layout. (For this reason I haven't bothered installing any other keyboard layouts.)
However, I cannot type accents at all in the Forums and have to cut and paste which is time consuming. Is this the same for everyone?


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## roxcyn

Trina, I use the Language Bar in Microsoft to change the keyboard layout to type the accents.


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