# verdad (pronunciación, d)



## papillon

Hola!
My new Spanish teacher is from Madrid and she pronounces "d" in some Spanish words as the English sound "th", so that _verdad_ sounds like "verdath". I would like to know if this is true for all of Spain or just Madrid. Also, are the two d's in verdad pronounced in a different way?
Gracias


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## mhp

Yes it is peculiarity of Madrid. The final d is pronounced like th in (thought). The middle d is pronounced like th in (this). Not every person from Madrid pronounces the final d that way, but a lot of them do. Most people not from Madrid pronounce both d's like th in (this).


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## elprincipeoigres

papillon said:


> Hola!
> My new Spanish teacher is from Madrid and she pronounces "d" in some Spanish words as the English sound "th", so that _verdad_ sounds like "verdath". I would like to know if this is true for all of Spain or just Madrid. Also, are the two d's in verdad pronounced in a different way?
> Gracias


 
Absolutely!

I say: 

Madrith (Madridz---> In spanish)
Verdath (Verdadz---> In spanish)

Well, it's very dificult to say if all the spanish citizen pronounces ''th'', I think even in Madrid I don't know if all of us pronounces it.


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## Ana_Fi

Also, we pronounce the 'd' depending on the letters surrounding it.
For example, the word 'dado' (dice): /daðo/ The first 'd' is strong, like in English, and the second is soft, like 'th' in 'this'.
We don't even notice it, but we change the pronunciation


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## papillon

Gracias a todos!



Ana_Fi said:


> For example, the word 'dado' (dice): /daðo/ The first 'd' is strong, like in English, and the second is soft, like 'th' in 'this'.


Tengo una duda:
in Madrid, what about *además, *is the _d_ prononced as"th" in "this"? What abut *cadena*?
Gracias


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## Jellby

Usually, all intervocalic "d"s are ð, including those between words:

aðemás
caðena
la ðe arriba
dame ðos


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## jmx

mhp said:


> Yes it is peculiarity of Madrid. The final d is pronounced like th in (thought). The middle d is pronounced like th in (this). Not every person from Madrid pronounces the final d that way, but a lot of them do. Most people not from Madrid pronounce both d's like th in (this).


Very wrong ! The final 'd' is silent for most Spanish dialects, though there might be an exception in the Basque country and around, something I only know since I read this thread :

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=194751

So, the most common pronunciation for 'verdad', is [berðá], and it is even considered "correct" by those stupid normativists !

As for Madrid, I think that the pronunciation [berðáθ] is not how people speak at home, but rather how they speak in formal occasions. Funnily, the normativists reject that pronunciation, but madrilenians don't know, they're too busy trying to pronounce every word "exactly as it is written" !


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## mhp

jmartins said:


> Very wrong ! The final 'd' is silent for most Spanish dialects, though there might be an exception in the Basque country and around, something I only know since I read this thread :
> 
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=194751
> 
> So, the most common pronunciation for 'verdad', is [berðá], and it is even considered "correct" by those stupid normativists !
> 
> As for Madrid, I think that the pronunciation [berðáθ] is not how people speak at home, but rather how they speak in formal occasions. Funnily, the normativists reject that pronunciation, but madrilenians don't know, they're too busy trying to pronounce every word "exactly as it is written" !



 Thank you. If you notice I was really talking about the word "Madrid". I never mentioned the word "verdad" and I’m sorry if that was not clear in my post. Do you think that the most common pronunciation of the word Madrid is with a silent d at the end?


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## jmx

mhp said:


> Do you think that the most common pronunciation of the word Madrid is with a silent d at the end?


Absolutely !


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## mhp

jmartins said:


> Absolutely !


 Thank you, it’s good to know that I’m so wrong about it. Perhaps I need a new pair of ears.


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## jmx

mhp said:


> Thank you, it’s good to know that I’m so wrong about it. Perhaps I need a new pair of ears.


Perhaps people don't speak to you as they speak between themselves. Try a third source of information, for example the "Atlas lingüístico de la Península Ibérica" (ALPI).


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## elpoderoso

on a related matter would it matter much to native speakers if i cant pronounce the d very well or even the v which is more like a b, for example if can understand a (very stereotypical) german when they pronounce ''w'' like ''v''
e.g
'' ve vill go ven ve can''
''we will go when we can''


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## María Madrid

mhp said:


> Thank you. If you notice I was really talking about the word "Madrid". I never mentioned the word "verdad" and I’m sorry if that was not clear in my post. Do you think that the most common pronunciation of the word Madrid is with a silent d at the end?


 
I wouldn't say so. Our final d is so mild that it might be hard to hear for others, it's almost like a sharp interruption of the /i/ sound. It depends on the listener. For instance, final d in Catalonian sounds so hard for us, that it sounds like a T... for us, they just hear their "normal" d. 

In any case, pronouncing /θ/ (like in thanks) instead of d (our mild Spanish d) at the end of a word, is considered uneducated, low class... anything but appropriate. Saludos,


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## San

jmartins said:


> Very wrong ! The final 'd' is silent for most Spanish dialects, though there might be an exception in the Basque country and around, something I only know since I read this thread :
> 
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=194751
> 
> So, the most common pronunciation for 'verdad', is [berðá], and it is even considered "correct" by those stupid normativists !
> 
> As for Madrid, I think that the pronunciation [berðáθ] is not how people speak at home, but rather how they speak in formal occasions. Funnily, the normativists reject that pronunciation, but madrilenians don't know, they're too busy trying to pronounce every word "exactly as it is written" !



That's curious, I would say that the only people in Sapin I hear pronouncing the final "d" clearly are from Catalonia. Am I right?


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## María Madrid

elpoderoso said:


> on a related matter would it matter much to native speakers if i cant pronounce the d very well or even the v which is more like a b, for example if can understand a (very stereotypical) german when they pronounce ''w'' like ''v''
> e.g
> '' ve vill go ven ve can''
> ''we will go when we can''


As long as your vocal sounds are very clear, I'm sure you'll make yourself understood. And just try to pronounce the mildest d you can produce... Saludos,


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## elpoderoso

muchas gracias


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## jmx

San said:


> That's curious, I would say that the only people in Sapin I hear pronouncing the final "d" clearly are from Catalonia. Am I right?


You mean people whose native language is Catalan. I don't deal with them, because Spanish is for them a *second* language. Certainly there are a number of catalans that can be considered as true bilinguals, and this number tends to grow over time. But the more bilingual a catalan is, the less likely that he/she says something like "la verdat" and the more likely that he/she says "la verdá".


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## mhp

María Madrid said:


> I wouldn't say so. Our final d is so mild that it might be hard to hear for others, it's almost like a sharp interruption of the /i/ sound. It depends on the listener. For instance, final d in Catalonian sounds so hard for us, that it sounds like a T... for us, they just hear their "normal" t.
> 
> In any case, pronouncing /θ/ (like in thanks) instead of d (our mild Spanish d) at the end of a word, is considered uneducated, low class... anything but appropriate. Saludos,


  I agree, but it seems that jmartins is quite unequivocal in his opinion that it is completely silent for majority of the speakers. But my ears tell me what you have said (not only for the word Madrid, but also for any other word ending in d).  Admittedly, sometimes it is pronounced softer than other times. Compare: "Madrid tiene duende" y "Madrid es una ciudad grande ".


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## Outsider

elpoderoso said:


> on a related matter would it matter much to native speakers if i cant pronounce the d very well or even the v which is more like a b, for example if can understand a (very stereotypical) german when they pronounce ''w'' like ''v''
> e.g
> '' ve vill go ven ve can''
> ''we will go when we can''


I don't think you will risk any misunderstanding if you just pronounce

d = [d] (always)
b = v = *

...and so on.*


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## María Madrid

mhp said:


> I agree, but it seems that jmartins is quite unequivocal in his opinion that it is completely silent for majority of the speakers. But my ears tell me what you have said (not only for the word Madrid, but also for any other word ending in d). Admittedly, sometimes it is pronounced softer than other times. Compare: "Madrid tiene duende" y "Madrid es una ciudad grande ".


 
Exactly, no educated people would pronounce /Madrí e su na/ (Madrid es una) but /Madri de su na/. Of course I mean people from Madrid, not from Andalusia, for instance. They tend to produce even milder consonants. As for final d (or d before consontant) I can tell I've pronounced it "my way" to non-spanish speakers and they just couldn't hear it. 

I remember one suede tellling me once that his neigbours in Málaga said Playa Biar instead of Playa Biarritz. In fact they said Playa Biarrih.... but he just "couldn't hear" beyond the strong r sound. It's the same for d. A Spanish d is NOT like an English d, it's rather as mild as /th/ in there, than d in dare. Saludos,


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## Soy Yo

Has anyone pointed out that "th" has two pronunciations in English....the "th" in think is different from the "th" in they.

th (think) approximates the sound for "z" y "'c' before 'e' and 'i'.
th (they) approximates the sound for intervocalic "d".

Now what I think i hear (have heard) madrileños say is "Madrith" with "th" of "think"...in other words "Madriz".

On the other hand, I have not noticed a pronunciation such as "verdaz" ("th" in think).


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## mhp

Soy Yo said:


> Has anyone pointed out that "th" has two pronunciations in English....



Yup, that was post #2 in this thread


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## María Madrid

Yes, we have. That's why we've included examples (th as in there or as in think).

Regarding Madriz, verdaz, etc, you'll also find it's been discussed. Not all madrileños say that, only uneducated ones (or even non-madrileños), those who also say things like tasis for taxi or cocreta for croqueta. Saludos,


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## mhp

María Madrid said:


> Yes, we have. That's why we've included examples (th as in there or as in think).
> 
> Regarding Madriz, verdaz, etc, you'll also find it's been discussed. Not all madrileños say that, only uneducated ones (or even non-madrileños), those who also say things like tasis for taxi or cocreta for croqueta. Saludos,



 I don’t know María, the word “uneducated” is a bit strong. I do have well educated friends from Madrid that that say Madriz y verdaz. They are quite aware of other pronunciations, but it is just their regional accent. It is like asking an Argentinean to pronounce “bu*s*ón” as “bu*z*ón”. It ain’t gonna happen.


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## Soy Yo

mhp said:


> Yup, that was post #2 in this thread


 
Oops, I should have known better than to doubt MHP and María Madriz.


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## María Madrid

mhp said:


> I don’t know María, the word “uneducated” is a bit strong. I do have well educated friends from Madrid that that say Madriz y verdaz. They are quite aware of other pronunciations, but it is just their regional accent. It is like asking an Argentinean to pronounce “bu*s*ón” as “bu*z*ón”. It ain’t gonna happen.


 
I just meant pronunciation of people from Madrid, not from other areas. For instance, in Andalusia they might just "aspire" the final consonant. 

In any case it's not quite the same as Argentinians pronuncing /s/ instead of /θ/. I'm sorry to disagree but saying Madriz instead of Madrid is just not right. I'm afraid this kind of pronunciation is not just a colourful regional variety, but rather vulgar, even if quite common. Saludos,


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