# Kaffeeklatsches



## entrapta

I found in a book this word which I think is mispelled: *Kaffeeklatches*....it should be Kaffeeklatsche(n)??? (meant to be plural)    they should be some kind of coffe-break among upper-class ladies back which was popular centuries ago. (is it used nowadays?). Thank you


----------



## Frank78

There´s only one form "Kaffeeklatsch"

I think it´s still used for especially older women meeting, drinking coffee, eating cake and chatting.


----------



## entrapta

Well it's definitely wrong in the book... so the plural of Kaffeeklatsch is Kaffeeklatschen or it doesn't exist?


----------



## Frank78

There´s no plural.


----------



## berndf

entrapta said:


> I found in a book this word which I think is mispelled: *Kaffeeklatches*....


_Kaffeeklatsches_ is genitive singular and it is not misspelled.


----------



## Hutschi

"Kaffeeklatches" is definitely misspelled, however. It comes from "der Klatsch" (chit-chat, small talk, telling gossip) and not from "Der Klatch". 

All singular:
Nominativ: der Kaffeeklatsch
Genitiv: des Kaffeeklatsches
Dativ: dem Kaffeeklatsch
Akkusativ: den Kaffeeklatsch.

Interestingly, there is an English form with the same name, in English it is for example a meeting inside a Con. I attended one in Glasgow 2005 at the SF World con.  

If you wat to build a plural form, you have to add extra words.

Example:

Bei den Kaffeeklatschtreffen
Bei den Treffen zum Kaffeeklatsch


As usually, we see that context is important. With context the genitive form would have been recognized easier - despite the spelling error.


By the way, there is a very similar word "Kaffeekränzchen" which also means an afternoon meeting with coffee and cake - for women only.


----------



## berndf

Hutschi said:


> "Kaffeeklatches" is definitely misspelled, however. It comes from "der Klatsch" (chit-chat, small talk, telling gossip) and not from "Der Klatch".


Yes, of course. But as entrapta wrote the word several times and missed the "s" only once, it is clear that it was a simple typo and I thought it didn't need explicit correction.


----------



## Hutschi

You are right. 
I gave the meaning of "Klatsch" not only because of the spelling error but more important to see the root of the meaning of the compound noun.

By the way:

"Kaffeeklatsch" in Sachsen - especially with "Blümchenkaffee" (In dialect "Blieemchengafe") - was not only in the upper class, but in almost the whole society - restricted mostly to women. Now it is dated, however.


----------



## entrapta

Well the sentence is ' Frauen particularly loved their Kaffeeklatches, gossipy social interludes... etc' so there's an s missing and I think that doens't justify the genitive form, right? I think it should simply be Kaffeeklatsch


----------



## Hutschi

Hi, in this case it is a Germanism. It is transformed to the English grammar rules.


----------



## Frank78

Isn´t it "*coffee* klatch" in English?


----------



## Hutschi

http://www.google.de/search?q=kaffe...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

At least at the cons it is "Kaffee klatch" or "Kaffeeklatch" and has a change of meaning: meeting of readers with writers in a small group for small talk.


----------



## entrapta

What do you suggest I should do if I have to translate it into Italian? I would stick to the original spelling and write Kaffeekatsch without en or es or whatever....


----------



## Hutschi

Yes. Write "Kaffeeklatsch". (If necessary, you could add Italian endings.)
The meaning is clarified in the rest of the sentence.


----------



## entrapta

No Italian ending  I don't want to write Kaffeeklatscho/i eheh


----------



## Hutschi

Just found. It is in Webster:
Definition of KAFFEEKLATSCH In the German spelling but lowercase.


----------



## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> Just found. It is in Webster: Definition of KAFFEEKLATSCH In the German spelling but lowercase.


 Yes, that is the correct meaning and spelling.



entrapta said:


> What do you suggest I should do if I have to translate it into Italian?


Use either "Kaffeklatsch" (exactly this singular form) or use an Italian equivalent, if one exists (people sitting together to drink coffee, eat cake and chat or exchange gossip).



Hutschi said:


> in this case it is a Germanism. It is transformed to the English grammar rules.


 That's it, yes. They added English plural ending -- horribly. Either use a foreign word or not.


----------



## Gernot Back

Kajjo said:


> That's it, yes. They added English plural ending -- horribly. Either use a foreign word or not.


... not any worse than German _Keks _(<Engl. _cakes_, understood as a singular "cookie" with an additional German plural ending _Keks*e * _to form the plural).


----------



## Hutschi

The question itself is rather old. I added this to make it more complete. But I saw several different spellings at Cons. 
I found the word by accident in Webster, and again in our forum, when searching "Kaffeeklatsch".


----------



## perpend

I've never heard a normal American English speaker use it, but I think you might hear "coffee klatsches" in Yiddish.

EDIT: Google tells me that may be in my mind.


----------



## bearded

entrapta said:


> I have to translate it into Italian... I would stick to the original spelling and write Kaffeekatsch without en or es or whatever....


In my opinion, you don't have to leave the German(/English) word untranslated, since in Italian there are proper corresponding expressions:
_chiacchiere da bar_
or
_pettegolezzi da bar_
according to the context.
See Kajjo's suggestion above: ''use an Italian equivalent, if one exists''.


----------



## perpend

bearded man said:


> _chiacchiere da bar_
> or
> _pettegolezzi da bar_



So what do those mean in English? (I honestly can't tell what language is being search for in the meantime.)

Geht es nur um eine Bar? Ich glaube, dass ich "bar" auf Italienisch nicht verstehe.


----------



## bearded

perpend said:


> So what do those mean in English?


'Chiacchiere' means just small talk, chat
'pettegolezzi' means gossip.
In Italy, a 'bar' is eine Bar (we adopted the English word), and we do not differentiate much between Bar and Café/coffeehouse.  Besides, _chiacchiere da bar _is ''eine feste Wendung'', just as Kaffeeklatsch. In this country, the 'bar chat' is called like this even if it occurs at a private home: it just characterises the kind of superficial chat as you would have at a café. As a matter of fact, here the preposition 'da' means ''suitable for'', or ''such as you find in''...


----------



## perpend

Thanks. Very helpful, bearded!


----------

