# Latin: Still useful?



## Tensai

i thought about learning Latin because i want to learn Spanish, and maybe French, should i learn Latin before i learn Spanish?


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## panjabigator

I think Latin is a good subject to study, but I wouldnt limit myself to learning that before Spanish.  But Im sure it would help.


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## Moogey

You can get by in any romance language without knowing Latin, but knowing Latin ahead of time would probably help you learn romance languages, and might even allow you to get a general idea of what is said in all or most romance languages without every studying it. Without ever seriously studying Spanish (yet), I understand a lot of what is said from knowing Italian.

Latin would also help a lot in English, too, because I'm pretty sure English has many, many words with Latin roots and origins.

-M


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## volky

You can go to Spanish without having to take latin, and given that you are in Florida USA, you will have more exposure to spanish than latin.

If I were you, I'll start with spanish, then latin, french, italian, portuguese ......... 

(And then you will be an ONU embassador)


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## tafanari

Tensai said:
			
		

> i thought about learning Latin because i want to learn Spanish, and maybe French, should i learn Latin before i learn Spanish?



You don't need to but it wouldn't hurt. However, Classical Latin grammar, pronunciation, and even spelling is very different from Spanish. It's probably just as useful or perhaps even more useful to learn Italian first. All of those noun declensions in Latin will be useless in Spanish as many of the verb conjugations.


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## brian

Tensai said:
			
		

> i thought about learning Latin because i want to learn Spanish, and maybe French, should i learn Latin before i learn Spanish?



YES!

Well, that's my first-instinct response, at least.  I studied Latin and ancient Greek for five years each before tackling a living language--Italian--and when I did I found it _very_ easy.  There are many many many advantages I can describe to you:

1) Italian--as well as French, Spanish, etc.--unlike English, has genders for all nouns.  In learning the language, one must memorize all these genders, and many are not so easy or logical.  From my experience, Italian seems to retain almost all the same genders as the original Latin words (assuming they existed in Latin).

2) Many of the verb forms are eerily similar.  For example, the perfect-tense "I was" in Latin is "fui," but in Italian I only knew it as "ero" for months; then I discovered the _passato remoto_, which gives "fui."  Not to mention, there's a lot of _-er, -e/im,_ etc. overlap. (that probably makes no sense)

3) Vocabulary.  With enough Latin experience, you can recall how to say things in Latin and then, with enough Italian (or Spanish) experience, you can learn how to guess what a word would be in Italian.  For example, I just ran across the Italian word _tratta_, which I've seen before as _trattare (to treat),_ but I knew that wasn't right.  So I thought, "That looks like a past participle...often in Italian, a _-ct-_ changes to _-tt-_, so what would the Latin _tracta_ mean?  That comes from _trahere (to draw/drag)_."  It turned out to be the same word--_trarre_.

4) Grammar in general...learning Latin helped me learn English better, oddly enough.  It really solidifies your knowledge of grammar concepts, which helps build a better foundation in any language.

I won't say that learning Latin is absolutely necessary.  The reason it's been of such help to me is that I studied it for five years before trying Italian, so I was very well acquainted with all the vocabulary and parallelisms and structures and what not.  I would not suggest studying Latin for just a few months or a semester and then trying Spanish.  That probably won't be of much use.  I say either go all the way and learn Latin as deeply as you would any language, or just jump right into Spanish.

Just my personal, non-biased opinions. 


Brian


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## pickypuck

panjabigator said:
			
		

> I think Latin is a good subject to study, but I wouldnt limit myself to learning that before Spanish. But Im sure it would help.


 
I agree with panjabigator. Learn Latin for pleasure or interest in Roman culture and classical authors, not just because you want to learn romance languages in the future. Bear in mind that Latin is a kind of nightmare-subject for many romance-speaking people  

¡Olé!


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## Chaska Ñawi

I studied Latin in high school - up to that point I'd only been exposed to French.

Latin opened so many doors, I can't count them all.  It made it infinitely easier to learn other romance languages, made German declensions more accessible, helped me to remember the nomenclature when I studied anatomy and biology, and made Harry Potter much more entertaining.  It has never ceased to be useful.

Go for it!


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## dahut

Just if you feel like.

You don't need to learn Latin in order to learn Spanish or other Romance Language at all.
I studied Latin at Secondary School. My mother tongues are both Romance languages and I learned French (still on it), studied German (declination issue)... and I don't recall Latin to help me.

Well, it would mean more culture but it isn't a pragmatic language anyway.
Just my opinion. Lovely language, but not the most useful, though.


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## ukuca

Hi, I learned English when I was young but I've learned French 5 years ago. Now I'm learning Spanish. I guess every latin originated language helps learning another. According to my experience, to know French and English helps me with Spanish a lot. And English was helpful to learn French either. I don't think that one should especially learn Latin first. My suggestion would be: learn which language you want to learn


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## dahut

ukuca said:
			
		

> Hi, I learned English when I was young but I've learned French 5 years ago. Now I'm learning Spanish. I guess every latin originated language helps learning another. According to my experience, to know French and English helps me with Spanish a lot. And English was helpful to learn French either. I don't think that one should especially learn Latin first. My suggestion would be: learn which language you want to learn



English, French and Spanish are languages use nowadays. Of course, the more languages you learn, the better in order to learn a new one.
But learning Latin in order to learn Spanish afterwards is not necessary. Needless it's the word.


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## Outsider

There's no point in learning Latin just to help you with other languages. Only learn Latin if you're interested in it.

I also agree very much with the following:



			
				ukuca said:
			
		

> I've learned French 5 years ago. Now I'm learning Spanish. I guess *every latin originated language helps learning another*.


...Or learning Latin, I would add.


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## a_n_a_r

I love Italian because I love Latin.In my opinion Latin is the basic language.A lot of people say that Latin is dead language,nobody speaks Latin but I think that learning Latin will be very helpful to learn other languages.Also if you know Latin you can be a very good doctor,you can  research a lot of things.You can guess a lot of words in the every language.I think that the road to intellectuality is learning Latin.Also it's very cool to say some Latin expressions like "Cogito Ergo Sum","Homo Homini Lupus" or "Fiat Lux"


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## panjabigator

Can it be spoken colloquially?


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## pickypuck

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Can it be spoken colloquially?


 
Maybe in the Vatican City as a hobby?  

¡Olé!


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## brian

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Can it be spoken colloquially?


Interestingly, the head Latinist for the Vatican, Fr. Reginald Foster, speaks fluent Ciceronian Latin, among other variations of Latin (vulgar, medieval, etc.).  (Cicero is considered to be one of the greatest orators of any language, as his style is smooth, logical, and very grammatically & syntactically coherent.  Hence, Ciceronian Latin is probably the "highest" form of Latin one could know.)

I read somewhere that he is one of only 27 people in the world who can speak fluent Latin, but I can't seem to find that reference anymore.  Still, here are some very interesting articles:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/faithvalues/2002339957_latinscholar18m.html
http://www.mirabilis.ca/archives/001769.html
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=324480
http://laudatortemporisacti.blogspot.com/2004/06/vaticans-top-latinist.html

He's very adamant about the study of Latin and really laments the fact that few priests nowadays are receiving the proper instruction in Latin that they once were (and that they, in his opinion, most certainly should).

Fr. Foster even teaches a summer Latin study program in Rome (_Aestiva Romae Latinitas_) conducted _only_ in Latin (I think), for the purpose of learning conversational Latin.  It's not a program for just learning Latin (anyone can do this at a university), but rather for learning _conversational_ Latin.  It is one of a kind (and FREE, if you get accepted ).

So to answer your question, there is at least one person who speaks fluent Latin, possibly 26 others, as well as some semi-conversant graduates of this summer program.  Interesting, eh?



> The fact that you don't have Latin, you are just sitting out there in left field.  You have no sense of history, no sense of continuity.
> 
> --Fr. Reginald Foster



Brian


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## tafanari

One of the ways linguists determine whether a language is "living" or not is if there are native speakers and if there are monolingual native speakers. While I don't think this test is clear-cut, I think it's a good rule of thumb. There haven't been monolingual Latin speakers for about two thousand years.

P.S. Since there are no recordings of Classical Latin and no clear agreement on how Latin was pronounced, it's impossible to say that someone today speaks just like Cicero did millenia ago.


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## vince

Tensai said:
			
		

> i thought about learning Latin because i want to learn Spanish, and maybe French, should i learn Latin before i learn Spanish?



Maybe as a hobby, but Latin doesn't have that much practical use these days. It is also much more grammatically complex than its daughter dialects.

Would you recommend people learn Classical Chinese before learning Cantonese or Mandarin? Probably not, unless people want to read historical literature or understand proverbs. Same with Latin.


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## Tensai

wow so many replies, thanks all!

i haven't decided yet, but i went to bookstore to find books just to check it out, seems that i can't find Latin learning books that has audio CDs?


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## jinti

When I was in high school years ago, I studied Latin, Spanish and Italian (4 years of each, plus a 5th for Spanish).  I don't think Latin helped that much with my Spanish or Italian, but it certainly helped me expand my English vocabulary -- and I'm a native speaker of English!   All those teenagers griping about the hard words on the SAT -- well, they never took Latin.   (Much of our formal, educated or academic language has Latin roots, not to mention prefixes or suffixes.  If you learn English words derived from Latin at the same time as you learn Latin vocabulary, you will end up with a better command of English.)

Of all the classes I took back then, I'm most thankful for my Latin.  It's surprising how often it comes in handy -- not directly, by running into native Latin speakers asking for directions on the subway, but in a hundred indirect ways. 

Of course, if you don't care about all that and just want to learn Spanish, well, just learn Spanish.  You don't need Latin to do that.


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## la reine victoria

Latin requires quite a long time to study and learn so I would dive straight into learning Spanish.

However, as other posters have said, it is a great asset to know Latin.  My second language is French but, because I studied Latin at school, I find it fairly easy to read and understand Spanish and Italian.  

I once went for a very long holiday touring Sardinia.  6 weeks before departure I gave myself a quick course of "teach yourself Italian".  I was amazed at how well I understood the language and how quickly I was able to speak to the Sardinian people in Italian.  

A few years later I was doing some archaeology in a place called Tuscania (70kms north of Rome).  I had two local Italians working for me and was able to converse very easily with them, even swapping jokes when we stopped for lunch (they always produced a litre of wine which made the conversation flow more easily! )

I'm sure if I applied myself I could soon become fairly fluent again.  I happen to love the beautiful sound of the Italian language too.

I'm told that Spanish is even easier to learn.  I've spoken some when in Spain but (sorry Spanish forer@s) it's not a language which appeals to me.

So, my advice is - don't waste precious time learning Latin at this point, just get on with your Spanish.  You can always make a start on Latin later on.  It's definitely worthwhile.



LRV


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## avalon2004

If you know Latin you will likely find it easier to study the languages that stem from it (the Romance languages- Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese etc.). Furthermore, it makes you think logically about sentence structure (verb conjugations and noun declensions).


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## Frank06

Hi,

Finland, when in charge of the EU, had a webiste in Latin (here's an article about it, can't find the webiste anymore), so Latin can (still) be used as any other language to communicate. If I am not wrong, a lot of Latin is used (written?) in the Vatican.



avalon2004 said:


> If you know Latin you will likely find it easier to study the languages that stem from it (the Romance languages- Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese etc.). Furthermore, it makes you think logically about sentence structure (verb conjugations and noun declensions).


That Latin (or Latin inflection) is 'logic', is a language myth with origins in the Middle Ages. What's logic about Latin (or any other language on this planet)?


Groetjes,

Frank


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## judkinsc

Latin's structure has fewer irregularities than living languages.  What we call "Classical Latin" is based off of Caesar and Cicero (et alii, but primarily these two), as the height of the language spoken during their times.
We also continue to use Latin's syntactical structure in our modern languages, in terms of formal speech.  To have had Latin as the main language of scholarship and diplomacy until the 16th century (when it became French) copied the patterns of it onto our modern languages.  If you read English prose from the Victorian period, for instance, you will see how the sentence structure corresponds to the formation of a Latin sentence.
Such things as prepositional phrases, adverbial phrases, participial phrases, relative clauses, if and then (conditional) statements, parallel structure, lists, etc.  All of these come from Latin (you could say that they really come from Cicero, Caesar, and Greek philosophy (like the syllogism) is you wanted to, as well).  Cicero gave us a great deal of rhetorical style in his writing, which continues to be called "rhetoric" and which was the study of "English departments" up until the early-mid 19th century, at which time "Oratory and Rhetoric" became "Literature."

So, it's not simply that Latin is a "logical" language; it's that learning Latin teaches you rhetorical style and the formal way to create phrases.  This habit of construction will serve you well in any Romance language that you study.
And since these posts were merged, I should note, as it was a topic in the earlier post, that 80% of English words are derived from Latin and Greek, typically through French.  Only the other 20% are Germanic, discounting a few from other languages.


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