# διάλεξα, εδιάλεξα, ξεδιάλεξα



## kevin98230

Γεια σας,

Εχώ μία απορία. Διάβασα ένα μήνυμα απο ένα φίλο, 
"ixa synolo 200 fotos na dialeksw k edialeksa tes kaliteres....". 

το κατάλαβα, αλλά δεν ειμαι σίγουρος για τη διαφορά ανάμεσα "εδιαλεξα" και "διάλεξα". Στο λεξικό(και Google) δεν βρήκα "εδιαλέγω", μονο "ξεδιαλέγω". Τώρα, μπερδεύω "διαλέγω" με "ξεδιαλέγω" και  ίσως με "εδιαλεγω" επίσης.

Σας ευχαριστώ,
Κλεάνθης
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Σας παρακαλώ, μπορείτε να διορθώσετε τα ελληνικά μου;


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## spyroware

That epsilon is called augment and it notates the past tense. In MGreek it isn't normally needed at all but it is still found (though usually misused) in some dialects like Cypriot Greek or at some more rural areas, it often slips in average casual speech too. Don't be confused by it, the verb is simply διαλέγω. 

Ξεδιαλέγω is, however, different. Ξε- usually means ~out (approx.) or used to emphasise the meaning (intensfier) of the stem word like eg be- or a- in bemuse/amuse (they dont mean the same thing but they share the same base notion) so eg ξέχωρα means χωριστά/χώρια, no big difference there. 

Ξεδιαλέγω belongs more to the former category, though it has elements from both, the meaning is roughly "to choose something by sorting out things, to single out something". Διαλέγω is simply "to choose ".

Edit, I put "to select (out of a group)" as a meaning for διαλέγω. This probably may confuse you, but in the end there is overlap between the two verbs as you'd expect. "To select" is the middle ground between the two.


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## kevin98230

Thank you spyroware for such detailed explanation. As you have surmised rightly, it was a Cypriot who sent me that message.

So the use of the ε-augument to denote past tense is excessive in this case, its past tense stem is simply διάλεξ-. 

But is there a situation where a MGreek speaker (Not Cypriot Greek speaker) would choose to use the ε-augument like this over the other form? 

Many thanks,
Κλεάνθης


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## ireney

Well, let's complicate things a bit:

The stem is not _exactly_ "διαλέξ"; The stem is "διαλέγ" and because of the ending (-σα/-σες/-σε etc) the gamma turns into a ksi.

As for choosing to include the augment (where it's not necessary like this case): As I see it, its usage is restricted in literature (well, Cyprus aside obviously  )


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## makot

Hello all, and best wishes for the holidays and beyond...

Although it sounds silly, I have a feeling that the whole thing just may be a simple typo... Could it be that the author meant to write "ke dialeksa" and pressed the Space button by accident in advance, ending up with "k edialeksa"?
Whichever the case, as a MGreek I endorse:
διαλέγω  is usually διάλεξα in the past tense, and less frequently seen as εδιάλεξα (it means to select, choose)
ξεδιαλέγω is always ξεδιάλεξα in the past tense (and means to pick out, sort out, usually something of a lesser value)

Have an amazing 2010!


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## Librarian44

εδιάλεξα is simply a katharevousa form of modern Greek, of the type that we were tought at school some forty years ago. It is therefore absolutely correct, as it is based on ancient Greek, although dated. People still confuse things. 

An augment is definitely needed if the accents is on it: for instance βάζω, έβαλα - δίνω, έδωσα.

I must say that I firmly believe that Cypriots (dialect apart) speak and write a more refined Greek than modern Greeks - but let's not get into the discussion about the reasons.


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## tantalus

I have a doubt: would you say εδιάλεξα in katharevousa?

In Ancient Greek I thought (still I am not 100% sure, that's the reason of this question) I would use διέλεξα. 

This is of some interest to me, since -when I first started to learn modern Greek (transitioning from the Ancient one) I used to say κατέλαβα, and people used to look at me in a strange way 

I am pretty sure the augment had to be put in between for composed verbs, but apparently the majority of the verbs do not follow this rule, anymore.

What about kathareyousa, just of curiosity? Thanks in advance.


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## orthophron

tantalus said:


> I have a doubt: would you say εδιάλεξα in katharevousa?
> 
> In Ancient Greek I thought (still I am not 100% sure, that's the reason of this question) I would use διέλεξα.
> 
> This is of some interest to me, since -when I first started to learn modern Greek (transitioning from the Ancient one) I used to say κατέλαβα, and people used to look at me in a strange way
> 
> I am pretty sure the augment had to be put in between for composed verbs, but apparently the majority of the verbs do not follow this rule, anymore.
> 
> What about kathareyousa, just of curiosity? Thanks in advance.


Good point.

The augment ε is normally applied in Modern Greek as in Ancient Greek, but it is omitted if not accented.

Compound verbs with a preposition as prefix are mainly treated as simple in Modern Greek. e.g. παραμορφώνω -> παραμόρφωσα. 

Disyllabic forms of verbs prefixed by a preposition mostly occur with internal augment in past tense. e.g. προβλέπω -> προέβλεψα. The augment is omitted when not accented: προβλέψαμε. 
However in colloquial speeking they are treated as simple: προβλέπω -> πρόβλεψα.

διαλέγω: almost forgotten as compound; διέλεξα never occurs in Modern Greek.

ε-πρόβλεψα, ε-διάλεξα: At times the speaker finds it proper to keep the "unnecessary" extension (for sake of euphony maybe).

καθαρεύουσα : officialese form


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## tantalus

Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ, ορθόφρον.

Όταν έγραψα "what about kathareyoysa", εννοούσα:

πώς θα λεγότανε "εδιάλεξα" ή "διέλεξα" στην καθαρεύουσα;
[ή απλά δίαλεξα;].

Έχω διαβάσει μόνο αρχαία και μετά την νεοελληνική γλώσσα, αλλά τους πρώτους μήνες διάβαζα (κατά λάθος) ένα βιβλίο για την καθαρεύουσα. 
Δυστυχώς δεν υπάρχουνε (αφ'όσο ξέρω) βιβλία για την νεοελληνική γλώσσα στα ιταλικά. Πράγματι τη γραμματική τη διάβαζα στης Τριανταφυλλιδή (αυτή
που χρησιμοποιείτε στο δημοτικο, που μου την έδωση μια φίλη μου Ελληνίδα, μία που κατάλαβα το λάθος). 

Έχω και άλλες απορίες για τη γενική, αλλά καλύτερα να ανοίξω ένα καινούργιο post για αυτές. (με την ευκαιρία πώς θα έλεγες 'post' στα ελλήνικα; Ευχαριστώ εκ των
προτέρων).

'Ασχετο: δεν υπάρχει ένα topic για Greek-Italian, έτσι;


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## orthophron

Αν με ρωτούσες πώς είναι ο Αόριστος του "διαλέγω" στην Αρχαία Ελληνική θα σου έλεγα "διέλεξα". Σήμερα το ρήμα "διαλέγω" χρησιμοποιείται σαν απλό και προσωπικά θα μου ηχούσε πολύ άσχημα ο τύπος "διέλεξα" αν ήθελα να μιλήσω στην καθαρεύουσα. Είναι σαν να μου ζητούσαν να μεταχειριστώ το ρήμα "διαβάζω" (ετυμ. δια-βιβάζω) σαν σύνθετο. Αδύνατο. 
Μιλώντας στην καθαρεύσα λοιπόν θα χρησιμοποιούσα το συνώνυμο: "επέλεξα".


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## tantalus

Ευχαριστώ πολύ, orthophron. Απλά μ'ενδιέφερε εαν θα έβαζες την αύξηση στην μέση της λέξης στην καθαρεύουσα και μ'απάντησες βέβαια. 

Με την ευκαιρία: το επιλέγω χρησιμοποιείται ακόμα και σήμερα; Αν ναι, ποια είναι η διαφορά με το διαλέγω; Ευχαριστώ και πάλι.


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## orthophron

Και βέβαια χρησιμοποιείται. Αν υπάρχει διαφορά μεταξύ τους, αυτή έγκειται στο ότι το "επιλέγω" είναι μάλλον επίσημος τύπος, ενώ το "διαλέγω" είναι τύπος της καθομιλουμένης.
Για να είμαι πλήρης, το "επιλέγω" έχει επίσης τη σημασία του "λέγω κάτι επί πλέον". Θυμήσου τη λέξη "επίλογος" (το τελευταίο μέρος ενός λόγου ή μιας έκθεσης).


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## orthophron

tantalus said:


> ... when I first started to learn modern Greek (transitioning from the Ancient one) I used to say κατέλαβα, and people used to look at me in a strange way
> 
> I am pretty sure the augment had to be put in between for composed verbs, but apparently the majority of the verbs do not follow this rule, anymore.


None would have been surprised if you had said something like "κατέλαβα την πόλη". We use κατέλαβα rather than κατάλαβα for the Aorist of καταλαμβάνω (occupy), while we say always κατάλαβα for the Aorist of καταλαβαίνω (understand). What I 'd like to show here is that sometimes the presence or not of the internal augment denotes differentiation in meaning.
Nevertheless the theme is not easily exhausted. You 've got to get familiar to every single verb. For instance there are disyllabic verbs that only occur with no augment in Aorist when prefixed by preposition: παράφαγα, κατάφερα ...


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