# Urdu: plate



## lcfatima

Generally people use the English plaiT for plate in daily speech. 

Is it possible to say _sahan_?

Recently I heard someone say something like _rakaabi_ (not sure of the exact phonemes?) and I wasn't sure if that was Urdu or from another language.


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## BP.

I use _tashrtari_-طشتری- in daily life. Or plate!

_rikaabi_ is a synonym as well. But the word has many other meanings, including things to do with horses.

Never used the third word.


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## bakshink

Thhali in Punjabi and Tashtari in Hindi but actually Plate is the most commonly used word.


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## BP.

_thaali_ is bigger in my imagination, and carries more than one food sample.

But yes its a plate alright.


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## Faylasoof

In Urdu, _SaHn_ صَحْن is usually a <courtyard>and _SaHnak_ صحنک a <small courtyard>. Additionally, they can also respectively mean <plate> and <small plate> - not normally used. Besides, _SaHnak_ صحنک also has a religious meaning as used in صحنک فاطمة _SaHnak-e-F__āTima_.(Mod note: this term is explained in this thread).

Other words used are:

پَلیٹ palait = plate (بشقاب_bushqaab_ was once used for this- up to ~early-mid 19th century).
قاب qaab = big serving plate / dish
طَشْتَری / تَشْتَریT/tashtarii = saucer

طَباق Tabaaq = large vessel for kneading dough

رِکابی / رَكابی rikaabbii / rakaabii = (1) flat dish; (2) cup-bearer (ساقی/ پیالہ بردار); (3) a parade horse; (4) an obsolete coin once used in Luckhnow; (5) a sword always tied to a saddle.


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## panjabigator

What about برتن ?  Probably a bit too generic, correct?


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## Faylasoof

Yes, برتن is too generic. Means <utensils,   crockery etc.>


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## Cilquiestsuens

I was reading the press (Express Sunday Magazine, Lahore Edition, 16 May 2010) and came across the following : 



> *شادی کا کھانا کھلتے ہی کــی گھنٹے سے بھوکی بیٹھی تہذیب کس طرح قابوں پر دھاوا بولتی ہے‏‎*


 

Just wanted to pinpoint here the presence of the word *qaab* (?? could be *qaabah* too), which I don't know at all and have never seen before.

I guess its meaning must be dishes or plates....(Maybe those special dishes used for buffets and shaadis.)

The word Faylasoof was mentioning (*bushqaab, qaab*) is therefore still used in the written language at least...

PS : the word before ghanTe above is ka'ii not kii, I just couldn't find hamza on my keyboard....


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> ...
> Just wanted to pinpoint here the presence of the word *qaab* (?? could be *qaabah* too), which I don't know at all and have never seen before.



Before the influence of English on Urdu increased, _*bushqaab*_ and _*qaab*_ were commonly used in speech too in the late 19th century. In our house we still use these as well as _*palaiT*_. Certainly for big serving plates / dishes we still use _*qaab*_.



Cilquiestsuens said:


> I guess its meaning must be dishes or plates....(Maybe those special dishes used for buffets and shaadis.)
> 
> The word Faylasoof was mentioning (*bushqaab, qaab*) is therefore still used in the written language at least...
> 
> PS : the word before ghanTe above is ka'ii not kii, I just couldn't find hamza on my keyboard....



Yes! But also in speech in some households still!


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## linguist786

In my house (although we're Gujarati) we use "palait"/"plate" for plate.

For us, _rakaabi_ (or 'rakebi' we tend to say) is one of those small saucers you have with a cup of tea, in which you pour the tea out if it's too hot and you're impatient to drink it!

_Thaali_ (or 'thaar' as we say) is bigger than a plate, we use it for example to bring tea in for _mehmaan_ (used as an alternative to a tray basically)


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## Cilquiestsuens

linguist786 said:


> For us, _rakaabi_ (or 'rakebi' we tend to say) is one of those small saucers you have with a cup of tea, in which you pour the tea out if it's too hot and you're impatient to drink it!


 
Chay is so much more fun to drink this way.  
What you call *rakaabii* in Gujarati is called *pirch* in Punjabi.


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## Faylasoof

linguist786 said:


> In my house (although we're Gujarati) we use "palait"/"plate" for plate.
> 
> For us, _rakaabi_ (or 'rakebi' we tend to say) is one of those  small saucers you have with a cup of tea, in which you pour the tea out  if it's too hot and you're impatient to drink it!
> .......


 Interesting! I think most north Indian languages are now using _palait /plate._ We also use it.

Yes, _rakaabii / rikaabii _is a small plate or saucer, often used with tea cups. But we always refer to these as _tashtarii_ ( or _Tashtarii _). 
In Urdu, _rakaabii / rekaabii _has_ other meanings_ too (below).   


Cilquiestsuens said:


> ......
> What you call *rakaabii* in Gujarati is called *pirch* in  Punjabi.



Actually, رِکابی /  رَكابی rakaabii / rikaabii is derived from the Arabic رِکاب /  رَكاب = stirrup <- this is also used in Urdu. 


Faylasoof said:


> ....
> طَشْتَری  / تَشْتَریT/tashtarii = saucer
> .....
> ....
> رِکابی /  رَكابی   rikaabbii / rakaabii  = (1) flat dish; (2) cup-bearer (ساقی/ پیالہ بردار); (3) a parade horse; (4) an obsolete coin once used in  Luckhnow; (5) a sword always tied to a saddle.


The reason(s) and manner for this  رِکاب /  رَكاب->  رِکابی /  رَكابی from stirrup -> plate is not  entirely clear to me and let us leave it at that.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Nobody seem to know the word *pirch *and where it comes from ???


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## timboleicester

You mention "bashqaab" this is present day Farsi for plate. Just thought I would add this to the debate.


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## Faylasoof

timboleicester said:


> You mention "bashqaab" this is present day Farsi for plate. Just thought I would add this to the debate.



Sure! We actually had talked about this somewhere. Besides, _bushqaab_ was used once by Urduphones too, apart from _qaab_ which is still used.


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## Qureshpor

Before we knew what a "plate" was, we used to eat our food from a "thaalii". bakshink Jii has indicated "thaalii" is Punjabi. It certainly is used in Punjabi but what about...

chandaa maamuuN duur ke....aap khaa'eN thaalii meN...ham ko deN piyaalii meN?

(In Punjabi, I have n't across "saHn" but there was a large, round clay "tray" which was called a sahNRak.)


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> Before we knew what a "plate" was, we used to eat our food from a "thaalii". bakshink Jii has indicated "thaalii" is Punjabi. It certainly is used in Punjabi but what about...
> 
> chandaa maamuuN duur ke....aap khaa'eN thaalii meN...ham ko deN piyaalii meN?
> 
> (In Punjabi, I have n't across "saHn" but there was a large, round clay "tray" which was called a sahNRak.)


 According to our usual and solid source, the origin is this:
H تهالي थाली _*thālī*_ [S. स्थाली+का], s.f. A small flat  plate or dish of metal or earth; plate, dish, platter; a salver; a stand (for a candlestick, or a _ḥuqqa_, &c.); (_fig._) a present of sweetmeats, fruits, &c. (made by relations or friends on festive.

... and btw, _*pirch*_ (= small plate / saucer) is Hindi but we never seem to use it. Apperently a latecomer to Urdu. First _written_ use in 1916!


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> [...]... and btw, _*pirch*_ (= small plate / saucer) is Hindi but we never seem to use it. Apparently a latecomer to Urdu. First _written_ use in 1916!


For "cup and saucer" I grew up with "pirch-piyaalii".That should then place me as a Hindi speaker of the post 1916 period!


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## Faylasoof

Qureshpor said:


> For "cup and saucer" I grew up with "pirch-piyaalii".That should then place me as a Hindi speaker of the post 1916 period!


  Definitely post 1916 !


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## Wolverine9

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Nobody seem to know the word *pirch *and where it comes from ???



_pirch _or _pirich ''plate, saucer'' _is confined to regional usage and is of English origin.


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## bakshink

Wolverine9 said:


> _pirch _or _pirich ''plate, saucer'' _is confined to regional usage and is of English origin.



Hear pirch-pyala after a long long time  but very interesting to note it that they have come from English. Is "pirch" from English word "Perch" ? What are the roots of the word "Pyala" also called "pyalee" 

Navneet


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## Wolverine9

_pirch/pirich _is from English _press _due to the pressed or flat surface of a plate.  Normally, the corrupted form of _press _should be _pirs_/_piris_, so the final _-ch_ of _pirch/pirich_ can be explained as a contamination from another word.

Hindi_ pyaalaa,  _Urdu _piyaalah _are from Persian _piyaalah_.


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## Sheikh_14

BP. said:


> _thaali_ is bigger in my imagination, and carries more than one food sample.
> 
> But yes its a plate alright.



Thaali in my knowledge is a tray rather than a plate. Well perhaps you could see it as one heck of a plate!


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> طَباق Tabaaq = large vessel for kneading dough
> 
> Similarly how does Tabaaq i.e. plate also come to mean the storey of a house?
> 
> Does it have something to do with tabaqah/tabqa and the connotation levels from here?


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## Cilquiestsuens

Wolverine9 said:


> _pirch/pirich _is from English _press _due to the pressed or flat surface of a plate.  Normally, the corrupted form of _press _should be _pirs_/_piris_, so the final _-ch_ of _pirch/pirich_ can be explained as a contamination from another word.  Hindi_ pyaalaa,  _Urdu _piyaalah _are from Persian _piyaalah_.



 I' d say _*pirich*_ is from Portuguese _*pires*_ (saucer). 

It seems much more likely than English press (quite a far-fetched one). 

We already discussed that in a previous thread: here.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Sheikh_14 said:


> طَباق Tabaaq = large vessel for kneading dough
> 
> Similarly how does Tabaaq i.e. plate also come to mean the storey of a house?
> 
> Does it have something to do with tabaqah/tabqa and the connotation levels from here?




I know that utensil as a _*paraat*_ (probably another portuguese loan see the thread linked to above).

No wonder that *tabaaq* has this meaning, since the Arabic root  *طَ ب ق*  is related to: layers, strata.

For the dish, I'd rather think that this is another Urdu mix-up and that the original root was *ط ب خ* which means cooking.


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## Faylasoof

Sheikh_14 said:


> Faylasoof said:
> 
> 
> 
> طَباق Tabaaq = large vessel for kneading dough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly how does Tabaaq i.e. plate also come to mean the storey of a house?
> 
> Does it have something to do with tabaqah/tabqa and the connotation levels from here?
Click to expand...

 According to Platts, طَباق Tabaaq we got from Persian after a vowel change, as a probable explanation: 

P _t̤abāq_ (prob. for A. _t̤ibāq_, pl. of _t̤abaq_, q.v.), s.m. A large dish or plate, a tray; a vessel for kneading dough in; a basin, bowl (syn. _t̤asht_).


As far as I know, طَباقTabaaq is not used to mean the storey of a house, but طَبْقَہ Tabqah is used:

P  طبْقہ_t̤abqa_ (for A. _t̤abaqat_, n. of un. fr. _t̤abaq_), s.m. A stage, story, floor; a shelf; a layer, stratum (=_t̤abaq_); a degree, rank, order, class:—_t̤abqa ulaṭ-jānā_ (-_kā_), To be subverted, be destroyed (an empire, &c.).


All have the same root as explained above.


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## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> Thaali in my knowledge is a tray rather than a plate. Well perhaps you could see it as one heck of a plate!


From my experience, a thaalii could be a "chhoTii thaalii" or a "baRii thaalii". The word that we used for "one heck of a plate" was "thaal"!

..................................................................................................................................................................

A "praat/paraat" was definitely not a "thaalii". One can roughly translate it as a tray. It was different from a "saHnak/sahNRak" in the sense that the latter was made of clay and the former metal, often brass.

I would say that a pirch is a small flat plate, exactly like a saucer. A rikaabii/rakaabii is a deep(er) dish/bowl to eat one's savoury or sweet dish from (curry/khiir etc). In this sense, in Punjabi we called this utensil a "tavaakhRii". This is most likely a corruption of "tabaaq" >> "tabaaqRii" >> "tabaakRii" >> "tavaakhRii".

For rakaabii/tavaakhRii, my maternal relatives always used "baadiyah", which most people will know means a "pot" in the original Persian (as well as desert!).

A piyaalii was somewhat different from a rikaabii. We used it to drink tea from a "piyaalii" before the "real" cups arrived on the scene. These (piyaalis) were similar to a smaller version of a soup bowl.

A piyaalah was often made of clay and it was part of the set going with a clay "ghaRaa". A "kaToraa" is a piyaalah but more often than not, made of metal. Shall I go on?


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> According to Platts, طَباق Tabaaq we got from Persian after a vowel change, as a probable explanation:
> 
> P _t̤abāq_ (prob. for A. _t̤ibāq_, pl. of _t̤abaq_, q.v.), s.m. A large dish or plate, a tray; a vessel for kneading dough in; a basin, bowl (syn. _t̤asht_).
> 
> 
> As far as I know, طَباقTabaaq is not used to mean the storey of a house, but طَبْقَہ Tabqah is used:
> 
> P  طبْقہ_t̤abqa_ (for A. _t̤abaqat_, n. of un. fr. _t̤abaq_), s.m. A stage, story, floor; a shelf; a layer, stratum (=_t̤abaq_); a degree, rank, order, class:—_t̤abqa ulaṭ-jānā_ (-_kā_), To be subverted, be destroyed (an empire, &c.).



Well you may have heard the phrase "charo tabaq roshan hoon ga'e" all  four floors were alight, indicating success. In that case tabqa meaning  stratum of soceity is not used but rather it seems Tabaq i.e. the arabic  word for plate is.

Whilst with regards to Platts you can clearly see that:
65.  طبق t̤abaq v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover' : (page  751)  طبق t̤abaq v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover' A طبق _t̤abaq_ (v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover'), s.m. A cover, lid; a dish,  *plate;* a tray (esp. a round one=_t̤abāq_);  a disc, an orb; a  sphere, world; vault (of heaven); a leaf; gold-leaf,  tin-foil, &c.; surface of the earth; layer, stratum; crust; coat  (of an onion, &c.); one thing following another, or consecutive;* story (of a house);* a platform; class, order, 


Never understood how the Arabic word meaning plate could come to mean  stratum or levels but can when it is tabqa which generically means  class/stratum.


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## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> Well you may have heard the phrase "charo tabaq roshan hoon ga'e" all  four floors were alight, indicating success. [ ]


I thought there were 4 + 10 tabaq?


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## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> I thought there were 4 + 10 tabaq?



I have never heard chodha tabaq always chaar i.e. four as to an explanation with regards to my query; I would love to hear one.


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## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> I have never heard chodha tabaq always chaar i.e. four as to an explanation with regards to my query; I would love to hear one.



4 (chau) + 10 (dah)

ہماری مذہبی فکر ہویا فلسفہ اورسائنس سے متعلق ہو دونوں میں آسمان وزمین کے طبقات داخل ہیں اور اُن کا ذکرموقع بہ موقع آتا رہتا ہے خود قرآن نے آسمان کو سات طبقوں سے وابستہ کیاہے ۔زمین کے بھی طبقے ہیں اورزمین وآسمان کے طبقے ملاکر چودہ طبق کہا جاتااورہمارے ہاں محاورہ بھی ہے چودہ طبق روشن ہوگئے

http://www.urduweb.org/mehfil/threads/لطائف-غالب.30351/


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## littlepond

For this Hindi speaker (though the thread is titled Urdu, since most words are common, I ventured to give my inputs), "tashtarii" is used for tray, and "thalii" is different from "plate": a thalii has raised border, while a plate doesn't have it ... so, for example, I prefer to eat something like a semi-liquid khichdi in a thaali (ease of handling), but rotii with bhindii kii sukhii sabzii is fine in a plate. "paraat" is distinguished from "thaali" by usage (and looks, but hard to explain): "aataa gunthnaa" happens in a "paraat". Cup is "pyaalaa" for me and saucer is "pyaalii"!


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> For this Hindi speaker (though the thread is titled Urdu, since most words are common, I ventured to give my inputs), "tashtarii" is used for tray, and "thalii" is different from "plate": a thalii has raised border, while a plate doesn't have it ... so, for example, I prefer to eat something like a semi-liquid khichdi in a thaali (ease of handling), but rotii with bhindii kii sukhii sabzii is fine in a plate. "paraat" is distinguished from "thaali" by usage (and looks, but hard to explain): "aataa gunthnaa" happens in a "paraat". Cup is "pyaalaa" for me and saucer is "pyaalii"!


I can't see anyone having a problem with other language speakers participating in Urdu only or Hindi only or "any other language only" threads. Your input is most welcome just as much as it would be in both Urdu and Hindi threads, such as "taa kih/ki".

It is interesting to see how the various utensils are perceived slightly differently from one region to another. From my experience, "aaTaa guuNdhnaa" can take place in a "paraat" but a paraat was used on special occasions, e.g. marriage ceremonies where one would put sugar, khopraa, suujii and other foods in various paraats. Flour mixing and kneading would be in the run of the mill sahNRak. We had chiinii and silver thaaliis, without any edges. The most interesting (and surprising thing for me) is your mentioning that "pyaalii" is a saucer! In the "chandaa maamuuN duur ke" nursery rhyme when we get to "aap khaa'eN thaalii meN, ham ko deN piyaalii meN", I have never perceived the "piyaalii" to be a saucer.


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## littlepond

^ rozmarra kii chiizen hain, to is tarah ke fark to aayenge hii. "Chanda mama door ke" mein mere khyaal se bhii "pyaalii" koii saucer nahin hai.


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## Faylasoof

Although Hindi dictionaries (including the reliable online _shabdkosh_ lexicon) mention _tray_ as one meaning of _tashtarii_ but they also put _saucer_ as the first meaning. 
In Urdu we differentiate between a _tashtarii _(saucer) and a _tasht_ (tray).


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## Qureshpor

^ The usual form in Urdu for a "flaying saucer" is "uRan-tashtarii". "uRan-pirch" or "uRan-piyaalii" does n't quite have the same feel.  So, "uRan-tashtarii" in Hindi could imply a "flying-tray"?


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## mundiya

I guess that could be true, Quresh jii, if aliens were flying around in trays instead of saucers.  But on a serious note, "uRan-tashtarii" means flying saucer in Hindi.


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## mundiya

littlepond said:


> For this Hindi speaker (though the thread is titled Urdu, since most words are common, I ventured to give my inputs), "tashtarii" is used for tray, and "thalii" is different from "plate": a thalii has raised border, while a plate doesn't have it ... so, for example, I prefer to eat something like a semi-liquid khichdi in a thaali (ease of handling), but rotii with bhindii kii sukhii sabzii is fine in a plate. "paraat" is distinguished from "thaali" by usage (and looks, but hard to explain): "aataa gunthnaa" happens in a "paraat". Cup is "pyaalaa" for me and saucer is "pyaalii"!



"pyaalii" to me is a small cup.  "chaay kii pyaalii" is a (small) cup of tea.  Saucer is a small plate-like dish.  I've never heard or read "pyaalii" in the meaning of saucer before.  I guess it varies from one region to another.


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## littlepond

"Uran tashtarii" is calqued from English, so I don't see how its discussion fits here. I never disputed that "tashtarii" means "saucer"; I only said what different words mean among my family, relatives and friends. After all, for a flying saucer, I personally would prefer "uran khatolaa", a non-calqued word, than "uran tashtarii"!

"pyaalii" means a small cup as well for us too, mundiya jii. Thanks for reminding! But we use it for saucer as well. What do you use for "saucer", mundiya jii? Maybe the English word itself? I personally use the English word itself.


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## mundiya

Littlepond jii, I also use "saucer" or alternatively a descriptive term such as "chhoTii pleT" - which is also understood as the same thing given the context.


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## littlepond

^ Thank you, mundiya jii; I did indeed suspect as much. Aakhir jab sauce ke liye shabd nahin hai, to saucer ke liye kaise hoga? Vaise, French "tasse" (cup) zaroor farsii "tasht" se aayaa hai.


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## Cilquiestsuens

littlepond said:


> ^ Thank you, mundiya jii; I did indeed suspect as much. Aakhir jab sauce ke liye shabd nahin hai, to saucer ke liye kaise hoga? Vaise, French "tasse" (cup) zaroor farsii "tasht" se aayaa hai.



'Tasse' doesn't come from Farsi but from Arabic taas (طاس) and it is one of those words borrowed at the time of the crusades. 

I am by the way surprised to discover that the word _*pirch / pirich*_ (saucer) is not part of your vocabulary....


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## marrish

littlepond said:


> ^ Thank you, mundiya jii; I did indeed suspect as much. Aakhir jab sauce ke liye shabd nahin hai, to saucer ke liye kaise hoga? Vaise, French "tasse" (cup) zaroor farsii "tasht" se aayaa hai.


jii ''sauce'' ke liye is chaupaal kii laRiyaaN talaash karne laa'iq haiN. ''saucer'' kaa ''sauce'' ke saath ko'ii raabitah nahiiN. fraansiisii ''tasse'' ko ham urduu meN ''finjaan" kah lete haiN par meraa tarjribah hae ziiyaadah log is lafz ko nahiiN jaante. aap se ek dilchasp baat karnaa hae kih jab bhii maiN ne hindii bhaashiyoN se puuchhaa kih ise kyaa bolte haiN unhoN ne jawaab meN kahaa ''tasht*a*rii''. ab lafz jo bhii ho, duusre bhii zaruur bataa diye par baat hae kih jo bold meN 'a'' likhaa hae wuh pronunciation meN hameshah rahaa, tashtrii nahiiN banaa yih lafz.


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## mundiya

littlepond said:


> Aakhir jab sauce ke liye shabd nahin hai, to saucer ke liye kaise hoga?



Lekin sauce ke liye kam se kam ek shabd to hai: chaTnii.  Aur saucer ke liye bhii haiN par kam istemaal hote haiN.


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## littlepond

marrish said:


> ''saucer'' kaa ''sauce'' ke saath ko'ii raabitah nahiiN.



http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=saucer&allowed_in_frame=0 



marrish said:


> jab bhii maiN ne hindii bhaashiyoN se puuchhaa kih ise kyaa bolte haiN unhoN ne jawaab meN kahaa ''tasht*a*rii''. ab lafz jo bhii ho, duusre bhii zaruur bataa diye par baat hae kih jo bold meN 'a'' likhaa hae wuh pronunciation meN hameshah rahaa, tashtrii nahiiN banaa yih lafz.



aap kii baat kuchh samajh nahin aayi, marrish jii: kyaa maine kahin galtii se "tashtrii" likh diyaa thaa? Yaa kyaa aap koii puraanaa bakheraa kharaa kar rahe hain?


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## littlepond

Cilquiestsuens said:


> 'Tasse' doesn't come from Farsi but from Arabic taas (طاس) and it is one of those words borrowed at the time of the crusades.



Farsi mein bhii "tas" milta hai, par aap kii baat bhii durust ho saktii hai: yahaan, yeh kahaa gayaa hai: "Empr. à l'ar._ṭāsa, ṭassa _« coupe, tasse, écuelle », lui-même empr. au persan _tašt_ « tasse, soucoupe »"

Interestingly, TLFi gives the first-use date as 1360, a few decades after the last of the Crusades. Are you sure that the Crusades had to do anything with it?


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## Cilquiestsuens

Robert gives its first appearance in French as 1150.

Apart from the crusades, what other contacts had Western Europeans had with Arabic speakers?

And there is *no doubt *it is a loan from Arabic no matter where the Arabic word came from, since:
1) it is in its Arabic form that the word was borrowed.
2) there were no contacts whatsoever between Farsi and French speakers vs. lots of them between Arabic and French speakers. It is in that very period (11th to 15th century) that many cultural things coming from the East (mostly from Iran, but also India and China) were imported to the West through Arabic speaking people (look at the vocabulary of chess for instance and the origin of the word 'check mate' half Arabic, half Farsi, but borrowed from Arabic).

You didn't reply to my *pirch / pirich* query....


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## littlepond

^ Thanks for the info! I had thought that maybe they were importing pottery from the Middle East, rather than the Crusades.

I didn't know that "pirch" query was addressed to me (why me?): I had never even heard the word "pirch" before this thread, to answer it now.


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## marrish

littlepond said:


> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=saucer&allowed_in_frame=0
> aap kii baat kuchh samajh nahin aayi, marrish jii: kyaa maine kahin galtii se "tashtrii" likh diyaa thaa? Yaa kyaa aap koii puraanaa bakheraa kharaa kar rahe hain?


1. perhaps etymologically yes, there is a link - but not in usage. It's used for serving coffee or tea or pies etc, not for sauce. Therefore, when you said: _Aakhir jab sauce ke liye shabd nahin hai, to saucer ke liye kaise hoga?_ - I responded that a word in Hindi or Urdu or any other language is not obligated to follow the English etymology and be related to sauce! _chhoTii pleT aur sauce kaa kyaa ta3alluq_? *saucer ≠ saucière*

2. _nahiiN nahiiN, aisii ko'ii baat nahiiN hae! bas baat zihn meN aa'ii thii to likh Daalaa, yih aap yaa kisii aur kii taraf ishaarah nahiiN thaa. Ghaur-talab baat hae - tasht*a*rii meN 'a' rakhte haiN par galtii (Ghal*a*tii) meN nahiiN - is liye 'tasht*a*rii' kii is xaasiyyat kaa zikr karnaa munaasib samjhaa thaa. 

3. rahii kisii puraane bakheRe kii baat, is baar to yih merii samajh se baahar hae mujhe to zaraa bhii yaad nahiiN kih meraa aur aap kaa ko'ii bakheRaa rahaa ho aur wuh bhii puraanaa.
_


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## littlepond

^ _meraa matlab puraane se yeh thaa ki shaayad aapkaa is mehfil mein kisi ke saath aisa bakheraa paidaa huaa ho ki aapko tasht*a*rii kii likhawat pe itnaa gaur farmaanaa paraa.

"galtii" aur "tashtarii" mein baraa fark hai: "tash + tarii" syllables hain, jabki "galtii" mein, "gal" ek saath hai.
_


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## Sheikh_14

Cilquiestsuens said:


> 2) there were no contacts whatsoever between Farsi and French speakers vs. lots of them between Arabic and French speakers. It is in that very period (11th to 15th century) that many cultural things coming from the East (mostly from Iran, but also India and China) were imported to the West through Arabic speaking people (look at the vocabulary of chess for instance and the origin of the word 'check mate' half Arabic, half Farsi, but borrowed from Arabic).



Very interesting indeed, could you elaborate more so, on the Arabic/Farsi origins of check-mate? The rest is historically sound.


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## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> 4 (chau) + 10 (dah)
> 
> ہماری مذہبی فکر ہویا فلسفہ اورسائنس سے متعلق ہو دونوں میں آسمان وزمین کے طبقات داخل ہیں اور اُن کا ذکرموقع بہ موقع آتا رہتا ہے خود قرآن نے آسمان کو سات طبقوں سے وابستہ کیاہے ۔زمین کے بھی طبقے ہیں اورزمین وآسمان کے طبقے ملاکر چودہ طبق کہا جاتااورہمارے ہاں محاورہ بھی ہے چودہ طبق روشن ہوگئے
> 
> http://www.urduweb.org/mehfil/threads/لطائف-غالب.30351/



Qp sahib I know where you're coming from and the obvious religious connotations, however, in common day speech be it in dramas or elsewhere chaaro tabaq is the go-to for indicating prosperity. Nevertheless, what I have been most interested is where has the connection between plates and floors come from, for it exists in both Urdu and obviously Arabic since that is where the words are derived from. 

65.  طبق t̤abaq v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover' : (page  751)  طبق t̤abaq v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover' A طبق _t̤abaq_ (v.n. fr. طبق 'to stick or cleave to'; or from iv اطبق 'to cover'), s.m. A cover, lid; a dish,  *plate;* a tray (esp. a round one=_t̤abāq_);   a disc, an orb; a  sphere, world; vault (of heaven); a leaf;  gold-leaf,  tin-foil, &c.; surface of the earth; layer, stratum;  crust; coat  (of an onion, &c.); one thing following another, or  consecutive;* story (of a house);* a platform; class, order,


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## Sheikh_14

Tasht appears to be another word for platter/silver along with Qaab. How do people in here refer to a plate?

Here's what we I can summarise from above, Urdu seems to have a plethora of terms for various sizes of plates 

Saucer= pirch, tashtarii and less commonly rikaabii
Small dish for desserts and snacks- rikaabii
Normal sized plate- Bushqaab (btw like Qaab is this feminine too?) & tabaq.
Salver, platter= tasht and Qaab.


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