# Pronunciation of final う in verbs



## Kaiketsu Zorori

Hello!

Pronunciation question. All guides I've read say that う after [o] or  sounds is not a separate sound, but prolong the previous sound to produce [ō] and [ū]. And those guides don't mention any exceptions to this rule. But I have a doubt about the final う in dictionary form of verbs, such as 通う, 迷う and more interesting ones, like 追う. Should this う be read separately from the previous sound?

I had this question for a long time now, and I can't seem to solve it by just listening. For example, I've heard sentences ending in 思う a few thousand times by now and it seems to me that some people pronounce long [ō] in the end and some - two sounds [ou]. Is this a matter of personal preference? Or maybe those were examples of hasty speech and slurring?


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## Ilmen

As far I know, the kana う is always pronounced as [ɯ] (the japanese U sound) in Kun'yomi (Kun reading). Thus, 追う is pronounced as /o.ɯ/ (= "ou"), 覆う as /o.o.ɯ/ (= ōu) and 思う as /o.mo.ɯ/ (= "omou", not "omō"). Though I have never checked it out in audio speech.

I think that the syllabe う extends the preview sound if, and only if, it belongs to a word read with On'yomi and that it is not the first syllable of the word, and that the preview sound is a [o] (or a [ɯ], indeed).
Therefore, to me, 可能 (kanou) should be pronounced "kanō", while 雷雨 (raiu) should be "raiu", and not "raī". 

But let's wait for a native speaker to dispel all possible doubts.


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## xiaolijie

Ilmen is right. う lenthens the preceding [o] or  only in ON'YOMI readings. In kun'yomi readings, う itself is a syllable, as in 通う, 迷う. 
It requires experience to tell which is ON'YOMI and which is kun'yomi, but for a start, it's handy to remember that only kun'yomi syllables can be conjugated & change in form. So, う as the final syllable of a verb should be without exception read as  .


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## mizoguchi

Kaiketsu Zorori said:


> ...it seems to me that some people pronounce long [ō] in the end and some - two sounds [ou]. Is this a matter of personal preference? Or maybe those were examples of hasty speech and slurring?



I think it's just a matter of how fast they pronounce it.

Even です or 〜ます sounds different depending on the speaker... I never gave it very much importance.


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## Kaiketsu Zorori

Thanks! So there's the whole rule for where う is a separate syllable . It's something new for me, thanks.
*Ilmen*, what do dots denote in your phonetic transcripts? Is it a "stop", pause? For example, 吸う whould be read as _*su*<short pause>*u*_? Or in this case the  will technically lengthen the preceding vowel?


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## Ilmen

No, they don't. In phonetic transcription, dots are always optional and are only used for separating the different syllables from the others. In the word /o.mo.ɯ/ (思う), there is three syllables: O, MO and U. But I could as well have written /omoɯ/, because, as I said, the syllable separator /./ is optional. It has nothing to do with a pause in the speech.


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## Kaiketsu Zorori

Thank you, *Ilmen* 
What about 吸う?


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## wathavy

I think this is not easy since I used to wonder at the same question when I was a beginner.
In short, I should confess this is somewhat similar to  female/male of French word.

Whenever you have a chance to write words in katakana than hiragana, you need to distinguish because one need to write [-] instead of  when you write in katakana.

I don't really think that we distinguish the function by looking at the proceeding character, though. I simply know.
But anyway, to have it clearly, I would say, 思う、吸う、迷う、通う、are one form of verb. 
They represent the form of 'to do' type. Such as, 思う = to think, 吸う=to inhale, 迷う=to get lost, 通う= to go and come back.

These have other forms such as, order form 思え,吸え、迷え、通え、

For now, I cannot give you the right example of elongated pronunciation types, I simply cannot recall any.
But I can, tell if that is it or not if you name them. 

It just reminds me that I used to get lost at the same query.


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## almostfreebird

Kaiketsu Zorori said:


> What about 吸う?



 It's almost the same as "swoop" without p.

たばこ　吸う? ＝ tabako "swoo"(Do you smoke?)


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## Ilmen

wathavy said:


> I think this is not easy since I used to wonder at the same question when I was a beginner.
> In short, I should confess this is somewhat similar to female/male of French word.
> 
> Whenever you have a chance to write words in katakana than hiragana, you need to distinguish because one need to write [-] instead of  when you write in katakana.




Cela s'appelle le genre du nom, et c'est une caractéristique propre à de nombreux langages, et pas uniquement au français. 

Then it's why the word 象 (ぞう, elephant) is written "ゾウ" in katakana instead of "ゾー"? The U syllable is pronounced separately?



almostfreebird said:


> It's almost the same as "swoop" without p.
> 
> たばこ　吸う? ＝ tabako "swoo"(Do you smoke?)


The English word "swoo" is pronounced /swuːp/. But there is no [w] sound in 吸う, isn't it?


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## wathavy

Ilmen said:


> Then it's why the word 象 (ぞう, elephant) is written "ゾウ" in katakana instead of "ゾー"? The U syllable is pronounced separately?



That's one of the case which distinguishes two version of pronunciations.
ゾウ　is pronunced as [zou] not [zo:]. Thus it has [ウ] within.
If [ゾー] then that is to express frightening or fear on encountering unknown (in horror moivie or cartoon).



> Cela s'appelle le genre du nom, et c'est une caractéristique propre à de nombreux langages, et pas uniquement au français.


Thanks for your clarification.
But here, I wanted to quote the similarity of the symtom. So, please forget that I only mentioned of French.


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## Kaiketsu Zorori

wathavy said:


> [/COLOR]<...> ゾウ　is pronunced as [zou] not [zo:] <...>


Every day I learn something new 

Will 像 that has the same radical as 象 also be read ゾウ?


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## almostfreebird

Well, I always thought 象 is pronounced [zɔː] 
and I tried pronouncing it a few times just now. Yes, I pronounce it [zɔː] 
Likewise 像 is pronounced [zɔː].





Quote: Quote Originally Posted by almostfreebird View Post
It's almost the same as "swoop" without p.
たばこ　吸う? ＝ tabako "swoo"(Do you smoke?)
-----------------------------------------------
The English word "swoo" is pronounced /swuːp/. But there is no [w] sound in 吸う, isn't it? unquote]

You're right but it's almost the same if there is no w sound in it.


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## kenjoluma

オ行+う kinda sounds like long 'o'.

行こう
見よう
食べましょう
このように
さようなら
そうですね

all う above sound like 'o'. Barely 'u'.




> o+u = long o



Ta-da!


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## Ilmen

Well, for よう (様), さようなら (左様なら), they are read in 音読み. As for そう, it might also be 音読み.
However, the fact that final う of the volitional tense extends the preview [o] sound is somewhat surprising, because for all I know it is 訓読み. :|


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