# Urdu: Rakou vs. Dalou



## LHBTC

my friend told me that they mean the same thing which is "Put", Is there any difference?


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## tonyspeed

LHBTC said:


> my friend told me that they mean the same thing which is "Put", Is there any difference?



Dalnaa is more violent. (throw, fling)
Rakhnaa can also have a meaning similar to keep in one's possession.


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## Qureshpor

LHBTC said:


> my friend told me that they mean the same thing which is "Put", Is there any difference?


sayyidii LHBTC, in Urdu the words are رکھو and ڈالو .

merii muHabbat, hanDiyaa meN namak aur mirch zaraa aur *Daalo (put)*! mujh se aisaa phiikaa khaanaa khaayaa nahiiN jaa'e gaa! (no violence)

itnii muHabbat?

 jii merii jaan! "maiN ne *rakhaa *hai (*naam rakhnaa* = *to name*) muHabbat apnii biivii kaa naam, tum bhii kuchh achhaa saa *rakh do* apne diivaane kaa naam!"

achchaa! yih makkhan lagaanaa apne paas hii *rakho*! (*keep*)

dekho, mujhe aur mat aazmaa'o. "terii aaNkhoN ke sivaa dunyaa meN *rakhaa* kyaa hai?" (What is* there* ...)

Thiik hai tum Deraa *Daalo (set up *a residence*) *merii aaNkhoN meN. tumheN inhiiN aaNkhoN meN hii qaid *rakhnaa (keep *in custody*) *ho gaa! lekiN tumheN to tairnaa hii nahiiN aataa. in gahrii niilii jhiiloN meN Duub jaa'o ge!

agar aisaa hu'aa to "ham bhii kyaa yaad kareN ge kih xudaa *rakhte *the (...we *had *God)!"


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## tonyspeed

Qureshpor said:


> sayyidii LHBTC, in Urdu the words are رکھو and ڈالو .
> 
> merii muHanbbat, hanDiyaa meN namak aur mirch zaraa aur *Daalo (put)*! mujh se aisaa phiikaa khaanaa khaayaa nahiiN jaa'e gaa! (no violence)



In my mind here, the difference is in the distance travelled. The salt and pepper was thrown into the vessel, not gently rested in the vessel. 
My usage of the word violence was not very precise. I did not mean violent intent.

Daalnaa always seems to imply motion (especially sudden motion), not rest. Even when one "Sets up a tent" (Deraa Daalnaa), this requires motion.


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## littlepond

To my mind, tonyspeed jii has explained it very well.


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## LHBTC

Qureshpor said:


> sayyidii LHBTC, in Urdu the words are رکھو and ڈالو .
> 
> merii muHabbat, hanDiyaa meN namak aur mirch zaraa aur *Daalo (put)*! mujh se aisaa phiikaa khaanaa khaayaa nahiiN jaa'e gaa! (no violence)
> 
> itnii muHabbat?
> 
> jii merii jaan! "maiN ne *rakhaa *hai (*naam rakhnaa* = *to name*) muHabbat apnii biivii kaa naam, tum bhii kuchh achhaa saa *rakh do* apne diivaane kaa naam!"
> 
> achchaa! yih makkhan lagaanaa apne paas hii *rakho*! (*keep*)
> 
> dekho, mujhe aur mat aazmaa'o. "terii aaNkhoN ke sivaa dunyaa meN *rakhaa* kyaa hai?" (What is* there* ...)
> 
> Thiik hai tum Deraa *Daalo (set up *a residence*) *merii aaNkhoN meN. tumheN inhiiN aaNkhoN meN hii qaid *rakhnaa (keep *in custody*) *ho gaa! lekiN tumheN to tairnaa hii nahiiN aataa. in gahrii niilii jhiiloN meN Duub jaa'o ge!
> 
> agar aisaa hu'aa to "ham bhii kyaa yaad kareN ge kih xudaa *rakhte *the (...we *had *God)!"



Ok, since I am in my preliminary stage, may be I am out on a limb here, but that's fine.

So I get that:

Daalo means *put* or *set* *up*

Rakhnaa means *to *and *there*

Rako means *put*

Rakhte means *had* (Is it the past tense of Rako?)

I know that I can't take it literally sometimes, but I figured that a breakdown would be more of a rigid approach.

Thank you all


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## littlepond

^ "Daalnaa" and "rakhnaa" are the infinitive verbs. The former can mean "to put, to throw, to set up" while the latter means "to keep" usually.

"rakhnaa", "rakhte", etc., are just different forms of the verb "rakhnaa", so meaning doesn't change: only tense/aspect. change.


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## LHBTC

Ok. I think I got it. So
*Verb*naa = To *Verb* (E.g. rakhnaa from Rako)
*Verb*iyega = *Verb*ing (E.g. Rakiyga from Rako)
*Verb*a = *Verb*ed (E.g. Aya from Aw)


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## LHBTC

Actually, what I am more interested in is the order tense.

Because  I have employees working under me and I am an Engineer, so I need to  instruct them to do things (Especially in emergency cases), so Rako  concerns me more than Rakhna which is the present tense I believe.

I was confused about the tenses, but I think that "Na" addition means it is the present tense, while without it, it is an order!


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## littlepond

^ An order is always in the present tence, LHBTC jii, as it is hard for me to imagine how you can order someone in any other time frame (can you order someone in the past to do something, for example?). "rakho" is imperative (an order, a request, etc.) if your relations are informal* with whom you are speaking to (it can be insulting in a professional environment unless there's a lot of camaraderie) and "rakhnaa" is the root verb (to keep).

* For formal relations, you need to say "rakhiyegaa" or "rakhiye".


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## LHBTC

I realize that. But I figured that may be there is a difference in the structure of the word.

I Arabic we have them different:

E.g. eat (as an order it will be كُل and as its present tense it is going to be يأكلُ [for singular male])


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## Alfaaz

An attempt to illustrate patterns with examples is presented below. If there are any mistakes, corrections would be appreciated!

*صیغۂ امر/صورتِ امر
(حال)*​_
Put (the) book on (the) table!_

*واحد : مذکر و مؤنث
*(بنیادی لفظ) + و، کرو، وغیرہ

کتاب میز (یعنی مکتب) پر رکھو - _kitaab mez par rakhkho!_

*تعظیمی واحد و جمع : مذکر و مؤنث
*(بنیادی لفظ) +  یں/یے، کریں/کیجیے، وغیرہ

کتاب میز (یعنی مکتب) پر رکھیں/رکھیے - _kitaab mez par rakhkheN/rakhkhiye!_
*صیغۂ امر/صورتِ امر
(مستقبل)*​_
Put books on that side and put newspapers on this side!_

*واحد : مذکر و مؤنث*
(بنیادی لفظ) +  نا، کرنا، وغیرہ*
*
کتب اُس طرف رکھنا اور اخبارات اِس طرف رکھنا - _kutub us taraf rakhnaa aur axbaaraat is taraf rakhnaa!
_
*تعظیمی واحد و جمع : مذکر و مؤنث
*(بنیادی لفظ) + یے گا، کیجیے گا، وغیرہ*
*
کتب اُس طرف رکھیے گا اور اخبارات اِس طرف رکھیے گا - _kutub us taraf rakhiye gaa aur axbaaraat is taraf rakhiye gaa!_


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> In my mind here, the difference is in the distance travelled. The salt and pepper was thrown into the vessel, not gently rested in the vessel.
> My usage of the word violence was not very precise. I did not mean violent intent.
> 
> Daalnaa always seems to imply motion (especially sudden motion), not rest. Even when one "Sets up a tent" (Deraa Daalnaa), this requires motion.


Thank you for clarifying your stance on "violence".

As you can appreciate both "Daalnaa" and "rakhnaa" have a variety of nuances. In very basic terms, "Daalo" is "put" and "rakho" is "place" but in another context, the meanings can be reversed as well as acquiring other meanings such as "keep"

ai hamaare rabb, ham par vuh bojh nah Daal jo ham se pahle duusroN par Daalaa thaa (Here, to my mind "Daal" is a gentle placement, akin to "rakhnaa")

aaNkhoN meN aaNkheN Daal ke ro'e vuh (Again, no force involved)

Here is an example of Daalnaa and rakhnaa used together

terii gale meN jo baaNheN Daal rakhte haiN 
tujhe manaane kaa kaisaa kamaal rakhte haiN

(I would say, the arms have been placed lovingly)

As the thread title is Urdu, all that I have said is in respect to Urdu only.


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## Qureshpor

LHBTC said:


> Ok. I think I got it. So
> *Verb*naa = To *Verb* (E.g. rakhnaa from Rako)
> *Verb*iyega = *Verb*ing (E.g. Rakiyga from Rako)
> *Verb*a = *Verb*ed (E.g. Aya from Aw)


If I am allowed to make a gentle suggestion.

You will appreciate that no language has clear cut black and white grammar and Urdu is no exception. There are always other nuances as there are in Arabic. I think it might be better for you were to work through a book such as "Essential Urdu" by Laila Schmidt, which goes through the usage of some of the main verbs including Daalnaa and rakhnaa. As you are working through the book, you will most certainly come across things which you don't quite follow. Then ask for clarification in this Forum by all means. Everyone will be more than happy to help.

You will see from the examples provided by Alfaaz SaaHib that orders can indeed be given in Urdu to cover for future eventualities.


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## Stranger_

Urdu:

اتفاق سے اس نے حکايات لقمان پڑھ رکھي تھي پاس ہي بہت سے کنکر پڑے تھے اس نے اٹھا کر ايک ايک کنکر اس میں ڈالنا شروع کيا۔ 

What does the verb "rakhnaa" add to the meaning of the first part of this sentence? what difference would have been there if it was without it, i.e. "us ne Hikaayaat-e luqmaan paRhii thii"?


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## tonyspeed

LHBTC said:


> Actually, what I am more interested in is the order tense.
> 
> Because  I have employees working under me and I am an Engineer, so I need to  instruct them to do things (Especially in emergency cases), so Rako  concerns me more than Rakhna which is the present tense I believe.
> 
> I was confused about the tenses, but I think that "Na" addition means it is the present tense, while without it, it is an order!




rakh/Daal - impolite , familiar   [absolutely no formality]
rakho/Daalo - polite familar      [some formality]
rakhiye/Daaliye - honourific     [very formal]
rakhnaa/Daalnaa - non-specific relationship and/or non-immediate command
rakhiegaa/Daaliegaa - very honourific


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## Qureshpor

Stranger_ said:


> Urdu:
> 
> اتفاق سے اس نے حکايات لقمان پڑھ رکھي تھي پاس ہي بہت سے کنکر پڑے تھے اس نے اٹھا کر ايک ايک کنکر اس میں ڈالنا شروع کيا۔
> 
> What does the verb "rakhnaa" add to the meaning of the first part of this sentence? what difference would have been there if it was without it, i.e. "us ne Hikaayaat-e luqmaan paRhii thii"?


Once upon a time, I believe there was construction in Classical Persian which, perhaps, could be compared with this. (By the way, it should be تھیں  and not تھی).

اِتّفاقاً او این حکایات لقمان را خواندہ بودہ بود

دوسرے لفظوں میں۔۔۔۔ اتفاق سے اُس نے حکایاتِ لقمان پڑھی ہوئی تھیں۔


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## LHBTC

I started to ask the Indian/Pakistani/Bengali people here, and they all told me it is that they have the same meaning exactly. Now I am really confused between these words.

Please someone clarifies me the main difference between them briefly, clearly and simply in the casual usage.

Thanks in advance!


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## LHBTC

Ok, I made a search in every Urdu dictionary I found in the world wide web, and this is the butter:

dalna -dalou - daliga - to put, to throw, to set up, insert, to place, to pour
rakhna - rakou- rakiga - to put, to keep, to have, to PUT AWAY, PUT ASIDE, to lay 

So, what I conclude is that dalo has the dynamic sense of putting, while rako has the still sense of putting or keeping.


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## Abu Talha

LHBTC said:


> So, what I conclude is that dalo has the dynamic sense of putting, while rako has the still sense of putting or keeping.


I think you've basically right.
_rakhna_ is placing something with no more than a releasing action. There is an overlap with Daalna. Daalna is placing or putting with an action beyond releasing. Daalna is often (but not always) used with the postposition _meN_ میں.


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## Khaanabadosh

If you're putting salt in a cooking pot, you will use a form of 'daalna' infinitive verb.

If you're placing a bottle of salt on table, you will use a form of 'rakhna' infinitive verb.

If you're putting clothes on a clothesline, you can use a form of 'daalna' infinitive verb.

If you're putting ironed clothes in almirah, you can use a form of 'rakhna' infinitive verb.


Hope that gives you some appreciation of usage.


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## LHBTC

Thanks guys. I believe it needs some practice, and I'll try to get that. But which one of them we use for the verb fix (fix in the sense of "installing something" or "putting something together" or "to glue something to something else")?


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## Abu Talha

We would need more context and one verb may not cover all these cases. But insofar as it could I think you are looking for the verb _lagaana_, the causative of _lagna_. Both of these are highly versatile verbs and have a range of meanings.


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## LHBTC

Ok... E.g.

1- Fix the socket in the wall.
2- Fix pipe cap in the pipe.


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## Abu Talha

_lagaana_ should work.


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## LHBTC

Thanks!


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