# Social Classes in Mexico based on color?



## Westerner

Hi all,

I stumbled upon this article yesterday in Google:

www[dot]latimes[dot]com/news/opinion/la-op-hernandez7jan07,0,2489.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

, and it was quite surprising. Is there really such disdain for blacks and indigenous peoples in Mexico and South America at large? I am aware of the situation in Oaxaca, and the "stamp" controversy in 2005, and I've heard things about the way people of color are referred to in common parlance and during football matches in Mexico, but until now, I had *really, really* hoped these were all isolated incidents. But now, I'm really not so sure anymore.


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## Westerner

Hi Thomsen,

yes, sort of. For example, there seems to be a heightened consciousness of people's skin tones (several times beyond levels in the US), even within families (to where parents will refer to their children as the light, fair one, the dark one, the...etc). Or the way the vast majority of people on telenovelas are snow-white, even though such people look nothing like the majority of Mexicans. Or the way a gaggle of euphemisms are used to describe people's "colors" without having to use the actual n-word (negro), since no one wants to be ID'd as black. Or the way the obviously black people (Costa Chica) vehemently deny having any ancestral connection to Africa. it goes on. I realize that I'm looking at this from an outsider(young American)'s perspective, but the more I read about all this, the odder it seems. I suppose apart from being saddened to learn about this, it was also surprising, since it's not something I usually hear about when reading about Mexico, or listening to Mexican radio. Let's just say none of this was covered in high school Spanish, which wasn't too long ago.

re: Birkem,

Yes, that's what I'm talking about! Sorry about the link - I think you have to replace [dot] with an actual "." when pasting the link. But yes, things like that. I myself have a darker complexion, and I'm a bit unsure about the prospect of visiting Mexico now, even though I'm dying to try out my Spanish. I mean, if someone turned into the Mexican equivalent of Michael Richards in public, would such a person have to apologize on TV the way he did, or would such an event not even make the 6:00 news?


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## birkem

Is there any mexican here?? I dont know there but here its a biggg deal the subject about skin color I don't agree but I guess there are ignorant and primitive people everywhere :S


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## steffiegomez

Hi All,
I am a bit lost as I lost part of the thread, I don´t understand if it is Thomesen or Westerner who wants to come to Mexico.  There is absolutely no problem at all for you to come down to Mexico and practice your Spanish.
I live here and I can tell you it is not true that social classes in Mexico are based on color. They are simply based on money, where you can find as anywhere in the world, what we all know as  new rich, or old money families. 
The mayority of people have dark skin (please, I don´t want to sound racist, just picture the color of skin of latin americans), rich people and poor people. Really dark color skin as was mentioned before you can find in very local places such as the Costa Chica de Guerrero as it was mentioned, but its definetly not a must in social classes. Many people have Spanish ascendence, some not, so theres a mixture of darker or lighter skins. You see beautiful olive skin women and men in soap operas, as it was also mentioned, and also beautiful blondies (gueritas). You can go to remote towns in the sierras and see beautiful indians, and you can also go to Veracruz and see local people with blond hair and green eyes (San rafael, Veracruz, where many French stayed and left their ¨color¨)
You can walk around the huge Mexico City, and find many colors, beauties,  nice people, not so nice, etc etc as anywhere most parts of the world!!
Just wanted to share my perspective.
Regards
Steffie


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## Outsider

Hi, Westerner, welcome to the forum.

Different cultures are, well -- different. Keep telling yourself this.

"Race" and "colour" are not perceived the same way in Latin America as they are in the U.S. They're not even perceived the same way everywhere in Latin America. This is something that will shock you at first, but you should get used to it if you are thinking of traveling abroad (and I don't just mean Latin America!)

One thing I ask you to try to keep in mind is that gestures, habits and words that may be universally regarded as openly offensive in the U.S. may well not be understood that way in other cultures. And, of course, things that come perfectly natural to Americans may be perceived negatively elsewhere. It's very easy to misinterpret as negative behaviours which are not intended as such when you are in a different culture.

As for the predominance of white faces on TV, I agree that it's an injustice. However, it's hardly limited to Latin America. You can probably think of examples in your own country.

And since I am not a Mexican, I think I will shut up for now. 

P.S. Just one more thing. I haven't looked at the article you mentioned in your first post, but judging from your reaction to it, perhaps this other one can balance it somewhat.


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## Thomsen

Westerner said:


> Hi Thomsen,
> 
> yes, sort of. For example, there seems to be a heightened consciousness of people's skin tones (several times beyond levels in the US), even within families (to where parents will refer to their children as the light, fair one, the dark one, the...etc)...


 
I see.  Sorry to sound critical, I took your tone to be expressing some outrage that racism exists in Mexican society, while ignoring pretty blatant racism in the US.  I think race and skin tone are complicated issues around the world, but in Latin America there is a distinct take on it that is different, but not unrelated to experiences in the USA.  I don't think a person of color would have anything to worry about visiting Mexico or any other country. 

That said, I have not been to Mexico.  In Cuba we found that black and hispanic students were treated like cubanos, white students were americanos, and Asian students were chinos.  People fell much freer making assumptions and talking about people based on their appearances as such, but I can't think of a single case where anyone felt that there were racially motivated incidents.


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## Qcumber

Westerner said:


> there seems to be a heightened consciousness of people's skin tones (several times beyond levels in the US), even within families (to where parents will refer to their children as the light, fair one, the dark one, the...etc).


Distinguishing people by skin tones, among other things, is universal. What's wrong with that?


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## Cicerón

I think that social classes in Mexico are not based on colour, they are based on money. In some countries, white people usually have more money than most of indigenous people.


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## Thomsen

Qcumber said:


> Distinguishing people by skin tones, among other things, is universal. What's wrong with that?


 
I don't think I said it was wrong.  It makes us uneasy when a group of Americans is traveling together and we are treated differently based on perceived race and nationality.


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## kurumin

You never see mestizo people in Mexican soap operas, only white people, and everyone is rich and speaks perfect, formal, literally Spanish. 
At least, we in Brazil, care about diversity, there are many black and mulatto people in our soap operas, and we talk about social issues, and our soap operas use the real language everybody speaks, colloquial usage, not the formal written language. I am so happy I am Brazilian


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## steffiegomez

kurumin said:


> You never see mestizo people in Mexican soap operas, only white people, and everyone is rich and speaks perfect, formal, literally Spanish.
> At least, we in Brazil, care about diversity, there are many black and mulatto people in our soap operas, and we talk about social issues, and our soap operas use the real language everybody speaks, colloquial usage, not the formal written language. I am so happy I am Brazilian



Sorry to tell you that is not true. TV programs in Mexico, not just soap operas, relate to the many problems we have as a big country with many people: poverty, drugs, kidnappings, pollution, economical, political and social issues, all of them including all the variety of colors in people.
I´m so happy, but specially so proud to be Mexican!!!
Regards
Steffie


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## Chipolata

Social classes are not based on colour. However, if you are white you may have more opportunities and people may treat you better (in restaurant, bars, job interviews, etc). If you dress very nicely and show culture your colour is not that important, though. A lot of jokes exist about being indian. White people are seen as being more beautiful than dark people. I don't agree with it but this is actually the way a lot of people think in this country.


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## Jhane

What`s wrong with beauty people in soap operas? 
Stereotypes are really strong everywhere, that´s why people imagine that a mexican has to be short, bit fat, of dark skin, with liking to drink... lol and wearing a big hat, or what is worst, women with moustache...

When meeting other people it is normal to find them amazed when I say  " I am Mexican" and I am 1 77 metres tall...


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## birkem

...lo siento, pero yo también vivo en latinoamerica y se que éstas cosas pasan y no sólo donde yo vivo, no me parece una respuesta sincera decir que esas cosas no pasan en México puesto que en todos los países de América hay discriminación por el color de piel y la clase social


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## Miguelillo 87

birkem said:


> ...lo siento, pero yo también vivo en latinoamerica y se que éstas cosas pasan y no sólo donde yo vivo, no me parece una respuesta sincera decir que esas cosas no pasan en México puesto que en todos los países de América hay discriminación por el color de piel y la clase social


MIra birkem en méxico no discriminamos por el color de piel ,pero tienes razón en algom ¡La discriminación si existe! pero esa es dada por si eres pobre, por si te vistes bien, por qué tipo de cohe traes, Es un poco diferente. Existe pero no por el color. Lo que pasa es que en México el Negro, negro casi no existe, existe el prieto o el muy moreno, pero los negros osn una minoria y es raro verlos, pero no causan ningún problema. Tal vez los que más sufren son los campesinos que vienen a buscar trabajo a las grandes urbes, ¡Esos sí son discriminados!


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## Miguelillo 87

kurumin said:


> You never see mestizo people in Mexican soap operas, only white people, and everyone is rich and speaks perfect, formal, literally Spanish.
> At least, we in Brazil, care about diversity, there are many black and mulatto people in our soap operas, and we talk about social issues, and our soap operas use the real language everybody speaks, colloquial usage, not the formal written language. I am so happy I am Brazilian


JA JA, I mean in the soap operas is the owrst spanish spoken. I mean almost in all TV (except in 22 channel) About pretty white woman is obvious, They are actors!!! They have to be beauty!!! Uglies can do theathre or other thingsm I think TV in all world is materialist and care about beauty.

Besides to have a girl eith the hair dyesd in blondem doesn't mean she's real blonde. 
It's just a lot of make up and Voilá, You have a Marylin Monroe instantly


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## Miguelillo 87

Sorry, anothe post more.

If we treat better to the güeros and white people is because it's a "minority" I mean Mexico is a country of meztisos, So it's common to see dark people on the streets so when you see a blonde women on the street, you get excited because is not common in your country, The same thing in Europe when a Perfect latin woman arrives and attonished all people.

Maybe in US you cannot see this, becuase you have all the colors and all the races in your territory


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## birkem

Miguel:

Tú crees que en Europa la gente rubia y blanca sea discriminada por tener el prototipo de su raza?


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## fenixpollo

Westerner, as others have said, social class isn't based on color, but it is related to color -- just like in the US. 





Miguelillo 87 said:


> MIra birkem en méxico no discriminamos por el color de piel ,pero tienes razón en algom ¡La discriminación si existe!


 No estoy de acuerdo, Miguelillo. Yo he visto casos donde a una persona de piel oscura no se le dieron las mismas oportunidades que a los demás, precisamente por tener piel oscura.  Lo difícil es que en México, el color de piel está relacionado directamente con los otros factores, y a veces es difícil (o innecesario) separar los motivos por la discriminación. Cuando la hay, a veces no se puede decir que fue por este motivo ni por ése, sino que fue un caso de discriminación por varios motivos. Pero a veces, sí pasa.


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## gdmarcus

Quote from previous post: "What`s wrong with *beauty* people in soap operas? Stereotypes are really strong everywhere, that´s why people imagine that a mexican has to be short, bit fat, of dark skin,..."

The sad thing here is that you appear to *unconsciously* equate beautiful people with NOT being short, dark and a bit full-figured.  I don't mind short, dark, stocky people myself...they can be as beautiful/handsome to me as tall, slim blond people.


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## ILT

In my family we have everything, the natural blonde fair skinned person and the dark side and every color of the spectrum; we have short, we have tall; we have slim, we have chubby. I have never seen discrimination based on skin color. 

I however have seen discrimination based on education; uneducated people, whether with a university degree or not, are discriminated.

As for the prototypes in soap operas, I deciced to watch soap operas today in order to have an informed opinion, and it is not true that most actors are fair skinned and blonde. Many of them are dark skinned. What we don't have a lot of is black people in TV, as we don't have so many in our general demographics. However, of the ones we have, I have never seen discrimination towards them because of their skin color.


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## HUMBERT0

Is there prejudice in Mexico towards darker races? I think so, however it’s a very, very complex matter. It’s not a KKK lynching racism, it has always been more subtle in modern times. I do remember seeing in a documentary on TV, about the history of black people in our country, how the city of Cordoba was founded because of runaway black slaves and indians, their leader is said to have been a Nubian prince or something like that before he was enslaved and brought to Mexico, they looted the colonial wagons coming from the capital towards the port of Veracruz. And they interview this old man he looked white, in the town of Yanga, and he remembered that the lady who used to be his wet nurse was black, and she used to tell him the stories how they were mistreated when they used to be slaves, they wore shackles, etc. One of the founding fathers of independent Mexico, Jose Maria Morelos y Pavón was mulato, Slavery has being abolish in my country since Independence from Spain (1821).

There is some veracity to class according to race. You find more white people on the upper classes whilst the more disenfranchised are native americans and maybe also black mexicans. Theirs even a saying “trabajar como negro, para vivir como blanco”, “work like a black man to live like a white man does”.
The majority of the population is mestizo (thought many native americans when moving into the cities pass as mestizos, for fear of being rejected, or that their background may hinder their progress in society), so regarding race issues our views are contradicting, ambivalent, and complex. Maybe is because our ancestors were the conquerors, the colonizers and also at the same time the subjugated natives, and black slaves, talk about schizophrenia.

On my mothers side, the mother of my grandfather was native american, and his father was white and born in the highlands of Jalisco, however my grandfather told stories of how often he received racial slurs, because lighter color mestizos and whites did not like to work under an “indian”. Long time has past since then, tough some times I wonder if things have changed enough for the better. 
And it’s common when describing people, to mention their color, and if your talking about family to recount their ethnic background, at least in my family and I don’t think I’m alone in this. I know what race were my great grandparents because my mother told me old stories about our families, people with in families are told if there are white (blond or not), native american, mestizo, asian, or black ancestors. 
I’ve met mestizos with backgrounds such as irish, japanese, french, italian, german, chinese, lebanese, recent spanish arrival, us american.
I know for example that on my mothers side, my grandmothers father was mestizo, and that my grandmothers mother was tall blonde blue eye woman. My great grandfather on my fathers side and my great great grandfather were white blue eyed, etc. Maybe they kept such detail descriptions because of great numbers of interracial marriages since 1519… Imagine both parents being dark mestizo having two blonde children and to moreno children, and not knowing that on both sides there were white great grandparents, my aunt had two blonde children and two morenos, and both my aunt and her husband are morenos, but his mother is blonde and in our family there also blonde people, and thank God they look like their father, je je je  

I’ve always heard certain words used jokingly, making fun of darker people, “ay india”, “chaparro, prieto y feo”, “indio bajado del cerro a tamborazos”, “indio pata rajada”, “negro cambujo”, etc. However in my country they make fun of anybody and everybody, so insulting someone and joking around gets blurred.

Race relations are a complex thing, Big country… lots of history…. and points of view.


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## Westerner

article said:
			
		

> White supremacy is deeply ingrained in Latin America and continues into the present. In Mexico, for instance, citizens of African descent (who are estimated to make up 1% of the population) report that they regularly experience racial harassment at the hands of local and state police, according to recent studies by Antonieta Gimeno, then of Mount Holyoke College, and Sagrario Cruz-Carretero of the University of Veracruz.
> 
> Mexican public discourse reflects the hostility toward blackness; consider such common phrases as "getting black" to denote getting angry, and "a supper of blacks" to describe a riotous gathering of people. Similarly, the word "black" is often used to mean "ugly." It is not surprising that Mexicans who have been surveyed indicate a disinclination to marry darker-skinned partners, as reported in a 2001 study by Bobby Vaughn, an anthropology professor at Notre Dame de Namur University.
> 
> Anti-black sentiment also manifests itself in Mexican politics. During the 2001 elections, for instance, Lazaro Cardenas, a candidate for governor of the state of Michoacan, is believed to have lost substantial support among voters for having an Afro Cuban wife. Even though Cardenas had great name recognition (as the grandson of Mexico's most popular president), he only won by 5 percentage points — largely because of the anti-black platform of his opponent, Alfredo Anaya, who said that "there is a great feeling that we want to be governed by our own race, by our own people."



This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. It's as if racism was (and always has been) an open thing in the US (see things like the "one-drop" rule, etc), so the white and black populations in the States are rather easily identifiable. In contrast, in Mexico, though a large number of slaves were also brought to the country, things like intermarriage occurred at a much larger extent, to the point where few people had identifiably "black" features by the turn of the century. One of the results of this seems to be the widespread perception in Mexico that there is no racism, "because there are no black people." Then we get the fair-skinned people at the top (as had been the case ever since the Conquistador days), resulting in this odd phenomenon of Europeans being cast in Mexican telenovelas, and soap opera stars whiter than their American counterparts.


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## kurumin

Miguelillo 87 said:


> JA JA, I mean in the soap operas is the owrst spanish spoken. I mean almost in all TV (except in 22 channel) About pretty white woman is obvious, They are actors!!! They have to be beauty!!!


it's not about beauty...

99.99% of actors in Mexican soap operas are WHITE
even in French and English soap operas you have more mestiço and mulatto people

Mestiços make 60% of the Mexican population, but you never see them in Mexican Tv productions. Maybe Mexico likes exporting the view of a rich white nation...


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## mirx

kurumin said:


> it's not about beauty...
> 
> 99.99% of actors in Mexican soap operas are WHITE
> even in French and English soap operas you have more mestiço and mulatto people
> 
> Mestiços make 60% of the Mexican population, but you never see them in Mexican Tv productions. Maybe Mexico likes exporting the view of a rich white nation...


 

where do you get that info form?

Please, if you're going to make such statements the least you can do it's watch mexican TV.

At least in the north of Mexico where I live, poor people are most of the time dark-skinned, and rich people are usually white (almost as a rule) if soapoperas are trying to reflect the upper classes it is obvious that they will cast white actors, and then again white people are in overall in a better economic situation and therefore able to pay school and become actors (white actors), *But we have all kind of colors in our TV*.

And yes, we are racist, I consider myself one, but is only (de la boca para a fuera) most of my family is white, and half of them are blonde.

And the money thing again, my ancestors were rich:and before that meant that they were white, and the people they hanged out with were rich aswell, So for generations they've been only marrying among white people, my granpa finally broke the tradition becuase he was a rebel, as a consequence my family is now mixed. 

And I said that we are racist from the mouth onwards, because we only joke or comment on someone's skin, but we don't really mean it. Is not that we skip a seat in the bus because there's a X-colored person in the nest one, we all live peacefully together. Football team preferences, now that's an issue my fiends!!!.

And it flips the other way around too.

I have been called "guero de rancho", and my cousins have been called things like "Miss menonita". So don't think is only from the whites, i am lucky to be in the middle.


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## Jhane

I didnt mean that gdmarcus, it is just tiring to explain that in mexico you can find people of different shapes, colours and so on.

Idian people may be discriminated at times, but not for everyone, I would say that there are more differences and discriminations between different areas in the country, for instance, if you are from the capital city, you are "chilango" and they are thought to see the rest of the population that live in other areas as inferior of some kind of, but i have "chilangos" friends and they are not like this at all. But they are worried of being perceived in this way, they say " we are not responsible of calling "provicianos" or "provincia" the rest of the country, is how we were tought"
So if you are from a smaller city or town, you will probably have to show that you are not "ranchero".

And in soap operas, there people of dark-skin, not just white ones...



Jhane said:


> " the rest of the country, is how we were taught"
> 
> 
> quote]
> 
> 
> 
> kurumin said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's not about beauty...
> 
> 99.99% of actors in Mexican soap operas are WHITE
> even in French and English soap operas you have more mestiço and mulatto people
> 
> Mestiços make 60% of the Mexican population, but you never see them in Mexican Tv productions. Maybe Mexico likes exporting the view of a rich white nation...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you realised that in France, USA and UK there are a lot of mulatto, and black people than in Mexico??????  ... far more than in mexico!!!!!
> 
> anyway, I dont feel any appeal for white people (sexually speaking), I mean with blond hair, they seem so "bland" it is always better something with a bit of taste!
Click to expand...


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## Papalote

fenixpollo said:


> Westerner, as others have said, social class isn't based on color, but it is related to color -- just like in the US. No estoy de acuerdo, Miguelillo. Yo he visto casos donde a una persona de piel oscura no se le dieron las mismas oportunidades que a los demás, precisamente por tener piel oscura. Lo difícil es que en México, el color de piel está relacionado directamente con los otros factores, y a veces es difícil (o innecesario) separar los motivos por la discriminación. Cuando la hay, a veces no se puede decir que fue por este motivo ni por ése, sino que fue un caso de discriminación por varios motivos. Pero a veces, sí pasa.


 

Hi, everyone,

Perhaps we could use another word for "racism" in Mexico, it is "classism". In Mexico, unlike Canada or the USA, poor people will never co-exist with the rich only because they cannot afford the same schools, restaurants, clubs, travelling opportunities, higher education, you name it. We really are talking about 2 different Mexicos, who only meet when one serves the other, or works for the other, or kidnaps the other. Otherwise, the only common trait we share is praying to the Virgen de Guadalupe, and even then we pray in different churches, unless we are in dire need of a miracle then we go to the Villa de Guadalupe and all of a sudden we are walking next to each other intent on the same thing.

There are very few blacks in Mexico (and since they arrived centuries ago they are no longer "pure" black) for the simple reason that the Conquistadores had ample "free labourers" in the indians, and blacks were brought to Mexico only after Spanish missionaries decided that converted indians should not work as slaves. So blacks were brought to Mexico 
to replace the indians. Somehow, hardly any made it to the interior of the country but remained on the coast, specially on the Gulf. 

I have been discriminated against because I do not "look" Mexican, whereas my very tall, dark and handsome cousin, who owns his own company, is accepted everywhere and by everyone, especially when he arrives in his Jag and leaves very handsome 'propinas'.

On the other hand, I am not discriminated against here since I blend in, but he has had a lot of uncomfortable incidents beyond the Mexican borders.

Regarding telenovelas, I feel it is a form of racism to say that because they "show white actors" they are not showing the real Mexico, or that those of us who are not "prietos" are not Mexican. I haven't seen a telenovela in decades, never cared for them, but if the present-day ones haven't changed their eternal (and boring) theme of the rich handsome boy (or girl) who falls in love with the poor and gorgeous girl (or boy) and all the never-ending tribulations that ensue, they are still dealing with class and not with race. Please, don't confuse a Mexican telenovela with "Guess who's coming for dinner tonight". The issues are not the same at all.

Take care,

P


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## DCPaco

It's all relative.  Like in all cultural studies, there are NO ABSOLUTES.  Mexico City, a city having a huge population of indigenous people and mestizos is probably not going to reflect the classism/racism issue that the original poster noted.  However, if you go to regions where there are indeed white people (like Nuevo León); you might find that social class and color/race go hand in hand.  I also agree with the poster from Canada saying that if you are white you may find you have an easier time.  (Mexico City is an anomaly.  Think of the places that had a greater European presence and less of an indigenous one.)
 
As for the praying to Virgin of Guadalupe (to the poster above), that's an interesting observation because as a white Mexican who was once Catholic, we prayed to the Virgin of San Juan de los Lagos (perhaps because we felt more identified by her--I'm not sure).


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## Metzaka

Westerner said:


> ...even within families (to where parents will refer to their children as the light, fair one, the dark one, the...etc). Or the way the vast majority of people on telenovelas are snow-white, even though such people look nothing like the majority of Mexicans.


 
I often refer to my kids as:'El Flaco', 'El Trompas', 'El Güero', 'El Prieto'. That's just a way of describing them. It is not meant as a comparison. As a matter of fact, I think if you can discuss race without feeling offensive, it's because you see nothing wrong with any race. When I ask my kids; 'Who's my favorite?', they always answer; 'all of us'. And it's true. I'm mestizo and three of my boys are half white (my ex-husband is Irish-American)and the youngest's father is a full blooded Tarasco Indian (from the State of Michoacan). Unfortunately, for some people, caucasian people are better. These people are called 'malinchistas', after 'La Malinche', who betrayed her people for Hernán Cortés. When I was younger, I was often made to feel less than my siblings because they have blue and green eyes and I don't. It became such an issue that I asked my mom to get rid of the siamese cats we had as pets because even they had blue eyes. But I still think that it's not what you say, but how you say it. Songs such as 'La Negra Tomasa', 'El Negro José', don't mean the 'n word' (which is not the same as the english 'n word', but it simply means 'black') as an offense, but rather as a celebration of race. And that's what other cultures don't understand, that calling someone 'negro' or 'prieto' can be a compliment (yes! That's right!). But that's because of their own feelings and culture.

**About the 'novelas', they do this in order to be able to sell them around the world. And that says something for the entire world, not just Mexico, because Mexico happens to be the #1 producer and exporter of soap operas in the world.

By the way, I had never met a black Mexican (I'm from Chihuahua), until a year ago, in Kansas (he is from Chiapas). There are very few.

Saludos.


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## mirx

I truely believe that Mexican Soap Operas are a clear reflection of the division of social classes in México, colors included. 

I do not believe that México is a racist country, it is a classist country though; but then again I have yet to visit one that isn't.

Cheers.


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## jj3118

I am not Mexican so I can only push my opinion so far but here it goes.
I don't see anything wrong with the use of fairer skin actors in telenovelas. I think that it breaks some stereotypes of those who view all Mexicans as indigenous looking people. The reality is that Mexico is a country that does have indigenous populations, but it is not the entire population.

Furthermore, I think that these stereotypes exist through out Latin America. I am, for example, Costa Rican. In Costa Rica there is hardly an indigenous population and there is a considerable population of fairer skinned people. I am the lightest one in my family and there are jokes made surrounding the drastic difference in skin tone from my father to myself.
Furthermore, I have a Uruguayan friend is very dark for a Uruguayan and his grandmother tells him he should not go in the sun because he is going to get darker. 

I unfortunately will admit that in my country as well in others of Latin America, some people use "indio" as an insult. Like Mirx said, every country has its own class system, even if it is not official.


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## Wham

Hablo de lo que he presenciado. Se hace mofa de los de piel más oscura apondándolos como _memín, prieto, negro, frijol,etc._ e incluso se hacen comentarios como "mira, está bien negro(a), qué feo".


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## Miguelillo 87

Wham said:


> Hablo de lo que he presenciado. Se hace mofa de los de piel más oscura apondándolos como _memín, prieto, negro, frijol,etc._ e incluso se hacen comentarios como "mira, está bien negro(a), qué feo".


 
Bueno, eso es muy subjetivo, auqnue tienes razón y eso se escucha; yo sé y conozco un buen de personas que les encantan los negros y que no les gustan los lechosos sin color. 

En realidad eso es una percepción de belleza pero no de racisimo; una cosa es que no te guste la gente de raza negra y otra que la discrimines; a muchos no les gustan las mujeres altas sino chaparras o visceversa y... ¿Eso es discriminación? Yo no lo creo.

Como creo que ya se ha reiterado por varios compatriotas creo que México sufre clasisismo.

Un negro que llegue con un ferrari y se hospeda en la suite presidencial de un hotel del centro será mejor tratado que un blanco que llegue de mochilazo y se hospede en el cuarto más económico, ¡Tenlo por seguro! 

Como dice el dicho; Con dinero baila el perro; y no importa de quién venga este dinero.


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## The Lol

México sí es un país racista, aunque no lo queramos aceptar. Claro que no estoy diciendo que todos los mexicanos sean así, pero sí es muy común el racismo, y de todos contra todos. La gente con rasgos indígenas o predominantemente indígenas va a excluir a alguien blanco y rubio; un mestizo "blanco" va a discriminar a un mestizo "moreno" o a un indígena, etc. Aunque, repito, no todos los mexicanos se comportan así, claro que no vamos a generalizar, pero es algo que pasa y no podemos negarlo.

Otra cosa curiosa es lo que mencionan de que en las novelas mexicanas aparece sólo gente "blanca como la nieve" (_snow-white_). ¡Claro que no! Sí hay algunos actores rubios y de ojos azules o verdes, pero también hay muchísimos actores mestizos, latinos o como quieran llamarlos, y el hecho de que no tengan la piel tan oscura no significa que no sean mexicanos. Me recuerda a lo que pasa en las películas de Hollywood, cuando salen actores mexicanos. Por ejemplo, Diego Luna. Aquí (México) él sería considerado "blanco", y en las novelas y películas mexicanas se ve como una persona blanca, pero en una película de Hollywood (en este caso Diego Luna actuó en _Vampires_, con Bon Jovi) el mismo actor se ve moreno. Lo maquillan e iluminan de manera tal que el público estadounidense lo identifique como "mexicano", es decir, alguien con la piel bronceada. Parecen no querer entender que existe un color de piel entre el blanco caucásico y el bronceado o moreno.


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## asm

Estoy de acuerdo con esta vision. Lamentablemente sI somos racistas en Mexico. El racismo que vivimos es muy diferente al que hemos visto en los EUA y por eso nos sentimos "aliviados". Yo me criE en un grupo social en el que se sentia una cierta superioridad ante otros grupos. Un amigo se caso con una chica que pertenecia a otra clase social (otra vez, la clase social se enreda con el grupo etnico, una verdad innegable, si no, que le pregunten al subcomandante Marcos). En el caso de estos amigos, la situacion fue muy dificil, y aunque el "amor" triunfo, la familia tuvo sus problemas para aceptar a la nueva chica, que venia de otro grupo. 
La discriminacion a los indigenas es durisima, uno puede constatar este hecho solo al caminar por las calles de la Cd de Mex y ver la cantidad de "Marias" que piden limosna en las esquinas. La pobreza genera mas pobreza y esta espiral esta incrustada a la raza, sobre todo a la raza pura. El mestizo tiene ciertas ventajas, entre otras es que casi todos pertenecemos de una u otra forma a este grupo. Pero a la vez hay de mestizos a mestizos. Recuerdo el dia que un amigo de mi hermano nos acompano al auditorio nacional a ver un concierto de Pablo Milanes, el pobre chico estaba aterrado porque iba a estar en contacto con mucho "naco"; realmente algunos de sus comentarios resultaban ser insultantes sin que este muchacho fuera conciente de eso. Creo que ni siquiera lo hacia con malicia; simplemente creia que los "nacos" lo podian daNar (nunca entendi cual era su miedo concretamente, pero el comentario estaba ahi ...).

Ahora vivo en los EUA y nunca he sido atacado por mis raices hispanas y tampoco he vivido en carne propia la discrimincion. Muy por el contrario, en los circulos en los que me he movido aprecian mucho la diversidad. Sin embargo yo mentiria si dijera que no hay racismo y discriminacion en contra del mexicano en este pais. Es lo mismo en Mexico, uno puede ser mexicano, haber vivido muchos anios alla, nunca haber visto un solo ejemplo de discriminacion, pero eso no niega el hecho de que nuestra sociedad, lamentablemente, tiene mucho de racista todavIa.




The Lol said:


> México sí es un país racista, aunque no lo queramos aceptar. Claro que no estoy diciendo que todos los mexicanos sean así, pero sí es muy común el racismo, y de todos contra todos. La gente con rasgos indígenas o predominantemente indígenas va a excluir a alguien blanco y rubio; un mestizo "blanco" va a discriminar a un mestizo "moreno" o a un indígena, etc. Aunque, repito, no todos los mexicanos se comportan así, claro que no vamos a generalizar, pero es algo que pasa y no podemos negarlo.
> 
> Otra cosa curiosa es lo que mencionan de que en las novelas mexicanas aparece sólo gente "blanca como la nieve" (_snow-white_). ¡Claro que no! Sí hay algunos actores rubios y de ojos azules o verdes, pero también hay muchísimos actores mestizos, latinos o como quieran llamarlos, y el hecho de que no tengan la piel tan oscura no significa que no sean mexicanos. Me recuerda a lo que pasa en las películas de Hollywood, cuando salen actores mexicanos. Por ejemplo, Diego Luna. Aquí (México) él sería considerado "blanco", y en las novelas y películas mexicanas se ve como una persona blanca, pero en una película de Hollywood (en este caso Diego Luna actuó en _Vampires_, con Bon Jovi) el mismo actor se ve moreno. Lo maquillan e iluminan de manera tal que el público estadounidense lo identifique como "mexicano", es decir, alguien con la piel bronceada. Parecen no querer entender que existe un color de piel entre el blanco caucásico y el bronceado o moreno.


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## Alma Shofner

El racismo o la discriminación existe y no sólo en México. Cuando yo estaba en la universidad en Sonora, presencié lo siguiente: Primero antecedentes, en mi ciudad hay un grupo de japoneses que han vivido en mi ciudad por varias generaciones. Una compañera mía es o era japonesa y a mi me hacía sentir muy contenta el tener una compañera japonesa, que aunque nacida en México, uno la veía y veía a una japonesa. Un día me platicó que ella iba a conocer a su novio japonés en la ciudad de México y que se iba a casar con él. A mí me pareció muy romántico. El caso es que un día al salir de una tienda en el centro, la vi y quise llamarle la atención para saludarla, pero en ese momento una muchacha se le atravesó y chocó (caminando) con ella y le gritó "Quítate mexicana pendeja!" yo me quedé helada y ya no me interesó su amistad. Pensaba, pero si ella y sus padres nacieron en México.
En fin, este es otro ejemplo de racismo/discriminación/diferencia de clases? en México.
Para otros ejemplos de racismo/discriminación/diferencia de clases, tengo tantos que escribiría un libro y no quiero cansarlos. 

Con mis dos abuelas maternas tengo, una me dio tanto amor y ternura que sufrí mucho cuando murió y aún la extraño, la otra no me quería por ser morena y siempre favorecía hasta a vecinos por ser rubios, con ella yo me escondía hasta con llave en los baños. Le tenía tirria y lo peor de todo es que mi papá me decía que soy igualita a ella, en la forma de ser, de carácter fuerte. No físicamente. Pero no me parezco a ella en lo de discriminadora/racista. Ella tuvo 12 hijos, de los cuales dos solamente fueron mujeres. La mayor es morena y ella la llamaba "la india" y la trató como a sirvienta. En la foto familiar falta mi tia porque su autoestima estaba tan baja que "no quería echar a perder la foto".

Dios mío y yo me casé con un gringo güero. Pero no por ser güero, sino por ser muy inteligente, simpático, guapo, jajaja aquí le paro, me encanta mi esposo. Somos muy afines, la misma carrera, la misma especialidad, gustos similares.

Saludos


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## Miguelillo 87

Alma Shofner said:


> El racismo o la discriminación existe y no sólo en México


 
Totalmente de acuerdo; aunque insisto racismo no, clasisimo sí; OJO en forma general 




> El caso es que un día al salir de una tienda en el centro, la vi y quise llamarle la atención para saludarla, pero en ese momento una muchacha se le atravesó y chocó (caminando) con ella y le gritó "Quítate mexicana pendeja!" yo me quedé helada y ya no me interesó su amistad. Pensaba, pero si ella y sus padres nacieron en México.
> En fin, este es otro ejemplo de racismo/discriminación/diferencia de clases? en México.


 
Una pregunta, el racismo es por la raza; verdaderamente no podemos decir que el mexicano sea una raza como tal (o sí?) una cosa es si le hubiera dicho !Fijáte meztizo pendejo! , porque cómo no saber que este mexicano era güero, moreno, negro, Más bien la otra se sentía superior por ser diferente a la mayoría, pero creo este ejemplo no es racisimo en sí.


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## Tampiqueña

ILT said:


> In my family we have everything, the natural blonde fair skinned person and the dark side and every color of the spectrum; we have short, we have tall; we have slim, we have chubby. I have never seen discrimination based on skin color.


 
Estoy de acuerdo con ILT (en mi familia tampoco impera un color o las mismas características físicas) y con respecto a experiencias negativas en casos particulares no creo que se deba generalizar a toda la población, sería aseverar que en un mismo país la totalidad de los habitantes piensan y actúan de igual manera. En lo que se refiere al título de la thread, las clases sociales en México no están determinadas por el color de la piel, en cada estrato de la sociedad hay personas blancas, morenas claras, morenas oscuras, etc.


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## asm

En mi familia tambien hay morenos y "gueros", hay de todo en el color de nuestra piel que corre buena parte del espectro. Sin embargo el ser moreno no es sinonimo de ser indigena, y los indigenas (o indios para unos) sí son discriminados en Mexico. Aunque la clase social es quizas un factor importante para la discriminacion, la raza también lo es. Hace 15 años comenzó una lucha en Chiapas que trataba este tema. Aunque no soy zapatista tengo que reconocer que la discriminacion al indigena mexicano es inmensa y a veces grotesca. 
En Mexico, y de eso estoy convencido porque lo he presenciado muchas veces, hay discriminación por clases sociales (los ricos no ven bien a los pobres (los llaman nacos, no los toman en cuenta, los explotan en cuanto se pueda, etc.); pero tambien hay racismo, sobre todo al indigena. 

Es cierto que hay morenos en todos los ambitos de la vida nacional, incluso en la television, pero moreno no es una raza. El indigena si representa una raza diferente y sí hay discriminación contra él. 




Tampiqueña said:


> Estoy de acuerdo con ILT (en mi familia tampoco impera un color o las mismas características físicas) y con respecto a experiencias negativas en casos particulares no creo que se deban generalizar a toda la población, sería aseverar que en un mismo país la totalidad de los habitantes piensan y actúan de igual manera. En lo que se refiere al título de la thread, las clases sociales en México no están determinadas por el color de la piel, en cada estrato de la sociedad hay personas blancas, morenas claras, morenas oscuras, etc.


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## mirx

asm said:


> Es cierto que hay morenos en todos los ambitos de la vida nacional, incluso en la television, pero moreno no es una raza. El indigena si representa una raza diferente y sí hay discriminación contra él.


 
Pues bueno, el hilo se trataba no de racismo, sino de la estructura social basada en el color de la piel.

Hay tendencias generales muy marcadas: Blancos ricos y morenos pobres/clasemedieros.

Lo del rascismo hacía los indígeneas ya es otro cosa mucho más compleja, y de la que muchos no podemos opinar. En mi ciudad no hay indios y sólo se les ve cuando van a los hospitales. No he visto a nadie que los discrimine abiertamente. Ellos normalmente viven en comunidades autónomas donde no se deja entrar a cualquiera, así es que de eso no puedo opinar.


Saludos.


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## Miguelillo 87

mirx said:


> Pues bueno, el hilo se trataba no de racismo, sino de la estructura social basada en el color de la piel.
> 
> Hay tendencias generales muy marcadas: Blancos ricos y morenos pobres/clasemedieros.


 
Buen punto; es decir en México el color no define la raza social, y aunque bien es cierto lo más normal es que los blancos son los ricos; no siempre es así, conozco infinidad de personas blancas de ojo de color y son pobres en el pueblo de mi abuela Tehuixtla Morelos; la mitad de la población es blanca, rubia y de ojos de color y créeme no viven en mansiones


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## Chtipays

First thing is money and then color, for instance, dark people (either from Native American or African ancestors) can access to high class as long as they are rich, but a middle or low class person with clear skin or eyes, would have better opportunities in life than a dark person of the same social level.


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## pollofrito

Miguelillo 87 said:


> MIra birkem en méxico no discriminamos por el color de piel ,pero tienes razón en algom ¡La discriminación si existe! pero esa es dada por si eres pobre, por si te vistes bien, por qué tipo de cohe traes, Es un poco diferente. Existe pero no por el color. Lo que pasa es que en México el Negro, negro casi no existe, existe el prieto o el muy moreno, pero los negros osn una minoria y es raro verlos, pero no causan ningún problema. Tal vez los que más sufren son los campesinos que vienen a buscar trabajo a las grandes urbes, ¡Esos sí son discriminados!


 

I am Mexican and I can say that this is partly true. Have you ever noticed how blond people are given preference, lets say in a shop? Have you ever heard "qué bonita está la niña, está güerita" (this girl is so beautiful, she's blond)? Have you ever seen how widespread is the use of creams that "reveal the natural colour of your skin"? Have you ever heard in a pejorative way things like "ese moreno"? 

I'd like to comment that this issue was not obvious to me until I came back to Mexico after 3 years in New Zealand. There I had "beautiful olive skin" / "the darkest and most amazing eyes" somebody had seen, "a lovely tan", etc. 

In contrast, here in Mexico I have received comments such as "Oh, (sad face) I thought you'd come back with a lighter skin colour, after all, didn´'t you receive less sunlight over there?". 

Sorry, I don't mean to be mean. I wish we were not racists, because I love my country and my people. But this is a sad issue that should not be hidden. Otherwise, how are we ever going to fix it?


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## Miguelillo 87

pollofrito said:


> I am Mexican and I can say that this is partly true. Have you ever noticed how blond people are given preference, lets say in a shop? Have you ever heard "qué bonita está la niña, está güerita" (this girl is so beautiful, she's blond)? Have you ever seen how widespread is the use of creams that "reveal the natural colour of your skin"? Have you ever heard in a pejorative way things like "ese moreno"?
> 
> I'd like to comment that this issue was not obvious to me until I came back to Mexico after 3 years in New Zealand. There I had "beautiful olive skin" / "the darkest and most amazing eyes" somebody had seen, "a lovely tan", etc.
> 
> In contrast, here in Mexico I have received comments such as "Oh, (sad face) I thought you'd come back with a lighter skin colour, after all, didn´'t you receive less sunlight over there?".
> 
> Sorry, I don't mean to be mean. I wish we were not racists, because I love my country and my people. But this is a sad issue that should not be hidden. Otherwise, how are we ever going to fix it?


 
OK Maybe I'm not taking this comments as rascism, only as preference, bad preferemce NO DOUBT.

Maybe Mexicans, us, prefer white people but we do not hate or make life difficult for those who are  not white.

I mean if we do that, so more than 705 of population will be disriminated, as I said if rascism for you it's to prefer fair skin to darker or to say I love blondy people so maybe you are right and we are rascist.

For me be rascist it's only if a father has one blondy girl and other darker and they behave the same and the father prefer the blondy one for her color, so Yes he is rascist.


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## Roberto_Mendoza

Nunca he entendido por qué a los mexicanos nos cuesta tanto trabajo aceptar que hay racismo en México, especialmente cuando se trata de personas altamente educadas que presuntamente pueden analizar los hechos con cierta objetividad. La lista de escritores que han intentado lidiar con este problema, desde diferentes puntos de vista, es larguísima, empezando por Gamio, Vasconselos, Ramos, Paz, Fuentes, Bartra, Bonfil, Monsiváis, Castellanos y un prolongado etcétera. 

Hay racismo como lo hay en todas partes. Claro, el racismo que hay aquí tiene complejidades que son únicas del país. Sin embargo, es incontestable que una persona con facciones predominantemente europeas o blancas recibe preferencia en muchos ámbitos, y eso, simplemente dicho, no es otra cosa que racismo. ¿Somos racistas como los nazis de hace 60 años o los supremacistas blancos de la actualidad? Claro que no, pero el racismo no se limita a ese tipo de xenofobias. 

Ahora bien, no tenemos una historia esclavista propiamente hablando, y creo nunca se ha discriminado legalmente en contra de alguna raza en particular.  Aun así, hay episodios oscuros en la historia nacional, como la persecución de los chinos a finales del siglo XIX y principios del XX, o las diferentes matanzas que se han cometido en contra de grupos indígenas. El hecho de que haya personas de rasgos indígenas que tienen éxito económico o profesional, o que tienen prominencia en la política, no descalifica la afirmación de que hay racismo en México. Si ese fuera el criterio, entonces diríamos que en EEUU no hay racismo porque sus ciudadanos votaron a un presidente negro, o que en Alemania no hay discriminación porque tienen jugadores de origen africano en su selección nacional de futbol.

Reitero, hay racismo en México, pero tiene matices y sutilezas que tal vez no existan en otros países donde la discriminación racial se manifiesta más abiertamente. Este es un asunto demasiado complejo para ser discutido en un hilo de un foro. Sin embargo, la evidencia, tanto empírica como documental, e incluso literaria, está ahí para quien la quiera ver. Saludos a todos.


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## pollofrito

Miguelillo 87 said:


> OK Maybe I'm not taking this comments as rascism, only as preference, bad preferemce NO DOUBT.
> 
> Maybe Mexicans, us, prefer white people but we do not hate or make life difficult for those who are not white.


 
I agree with Roberto_Mendoza. Racism in Mexico exists though it can be really subtle.

If somebody consistently chooses A over B, this means that to him B is less worthy than A.

Hence, whenever choosing, that person will choose A.

That's the subtlety. He does not have to kill/punch/ignore B to think B is less worthy.


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## Aserolf

Roberto_Mendoza said:


> ... Reitero, *hay racismo en México*, pero tiene matices y sutilezas que tal vez no existan en otros países donde la discriminación racial se manifiesta más abiertamente. Este es un asunto demasiado complejo para ser discutido en un hilo de un foro. Sin embargo, la evidencia, tanto empírica como documental, e incluso literaria, está ahí para quien la quiera ver. Saludos a todos.


Claro que lo hay!!
Me siento ofendida al ver que aun hay mexicanos que no lo quieren aceptar. Hay racismo y hay discriminación, y aunque el color de la piel no determina la clase social, si tiene mucho que ver con la forma en que te tratan.
Una prueba más de ello es que las "Taradonovelas" (los programas de TV con mayor audiencia - lástima!) nunca tienen una protagonista de piel oscura, la mayoría son rubias y de ojos azules. Es triste teniendo en cuenta que la mayoría de la población es mestiza, es decir, morena.

En las escuelas, si eres moreno/a (no clara) oscuro/a, te dicen muchas palabras despectivas. Yo lo viví en carne propia, lo vivió mi hermana (13 años menor que yo) y hace poco lo vivió mi propia hija (quien es morena clara). Lo digo porque sigo visitando México con frecuencia y todavía se siente la discriminación.


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## Aserolf

Miguelillo 87 said:


> MIra birkem en méxico no discriminamos por el color de piel ,pero tienes razón en algom ¡La discriminación si existe! pero esa es dada por si eres pobre, por si te vistes bien, por qué tipo de cohe traes, Es un poco diferente. Existe pero no por el color. Lo que pasa es que en México el Negro, negro casi no existe, existe el *prieto* o el muy moreno, pero los negros osn una minoria y es raro verlos, *pero no causan ningún problema ???*. Tal vez los que más sufren son los campesinos que vienen a buscar trabajo a las grandes urbes, ¡Esos sí son discriminados!


Para mí, este término es muy ofensivo. Existe la piel morena, piel apiñonada, piel blanca, piel negra - pero jamás he oido de la _piel prieta_.

_Los negros no causan problemas?_ Es decir, que siendo negro lo normal es que causen problemas? 

¡En México, la discriminación por el color de la piel *sí* existe!


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## mirx

Aserolf said:


> Para mí, este término es muy ofensivo. Existe la piel morena, piel apiñonada, piel blanca, piel negra - pero jamás he oido de la _piel prieta_.
> 
> _Los negros no causan problemas?_ Es decir, que siendo negro lo normal es que causen problemas?
> 
> ¡En México, la discriminación por el color de la piel *sí* existe!


 
Pues mira, creo que nuevamente el problema son las interprtaciones de las palabras que usamos. Yo soy de Durango y aquí con toda libertad les llamamos güeros, morenos, prietos y negros a los que lo son. Nadie trata de ofender con esos términos y nadie se siente ofendido.

La discrimanción nunca la he vivido en Durango porque somos más o menos homógeneos, aunque sí admito que se dicen muchas cosas de la gente del centro y sur del país.


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## Aserolf

mirx said:


> Pues mira, creo que nuevamente el problema son las *interprtaciones* ? de las palabras que usamos (Y qué del tono y la manera en que las dicen?). Yo soy de Durango y aquí con toda libertad les llamamos güeros, morenos, prietos y negros a los que lo son. Nadie trata de ofender con esos términos y nadie se siente ofendido.
> 
> La discrimanción nunca la he vivido en Durango porque somos más o menos homógeneos, aunque sí admito que se dicen muchas cosas de la gente del centro y sur del país.


Cuando he escuchado hablar a personas usando este término, *prieto*, (lo repito) ha sido siempre de manera ofensiva. Yo nunca hablé de "güeros", por supuesto que ellos no se sentirían ofendidos, después de todo, son los "privilegiados". Tampoco de "morenos", a mi no me ofende que me digan "morena". 
Por lo demás hablo, como dije anteriormente, por experiencia propia.
Que bueno, me alegra que en tu estado nunca traten de ofender y que nadie se siente ofendido. Conozco a personas, e incluso, tengo amigos cercanos de ese estado y no comparten tus mismas ideas.

Reitero, es una verdadera lástima que nuestros mismos compatriotas no quieran reconocer que el problema existe.


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## fenixpollo

mirx said:


> ...aquí con toda libertad les llamamos güeros, morenos, prietos y negros a los que lo son. Nadie trata de ofender con esos términos y nadie se siente ofendido.


 El hecho que no te han dicho sentirse ofendidos no quiere decir que nunca se ha ofendido nadie. Concuerdo con Aserolf acerca de lo de _prieto_ y _güero_, aunque agrego que no tienen que ser términos ofensivos en sí, pero que son modismos que pueden llevar una inferencia negativa. Solamente si se utilizan entre amigos, son muy inofensivos; pero entre desconocidos, a mí me parece que son insultos.   





mirx said:


> La discrimanción nunca la he vivido en Durango porque somos más o menos homógeneos, aunque sí admito que se dicen muchas cosas de la gente del centro y sur del país.


 Qué bueno que nunca has tenido que vivir la discriminación que existe en tu estado.


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## HUMBERT0

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Sorry, anothe post more.
> 
> If we treat better to the güeros and white people is because it's a "minority" I mean Mexico is a country of meztisos, So it's common to see dark people on the streets so when you see a blonde women on the street, you get excited because is not common in your country, The same thing in Europe when a Perfect latin woman arrives and attonished all people.
> 
> Maybe in US you cannot see this, becuase you have all the colors and all the races in your territory


First of all, we are not a country of mestizos, true the majority is mestizo, but there are millions of Native Americans who are not mestizo especially in the Southeast and in the central part of the country, who belong to different native populations, and who have their own language and culture. And yet many have to pass as mestizos or appeal to a so called “Mexican” nationality to not be rejected. If your statement that because whites constitute a minority and that’s why many show special treatment, then people would show that same special treatment to Native Americans and people with darker skin afro-mestizos, since they are also “minorities”, and you know that isn’t the case. 

It’s a very complex issue, the boundary between the different ethnic populations is not as clear cut as in other countries, discrimination is not as obvios in some cases because you have a continuum of colors and racial backgrounds.


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## Judica

Latin America, not just Mexico, has these problems because of colonialism. Not much has changed. At times, and in some places, it still seems as if Independence wars were never fought. When people figure out that Mexico is a country and not a race, things will improve. Everyone born there is Mexican and everyone is human to be treated with dignity. The same could be said for the US, et al.

I agree that from the outside "telenovas" appear to show a very small portion of the populace as opposed to what people really see when traveling to Mexico. Everyone abroad seems to notice this.

I can't speak for Mexico because there are too many issues to be addressed that I am not aware of.

Westerner, you should go and learn for yourself. This is the only way to know the truth.

If you don't get along in Mexico, then I welcome you to visit Panama.


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## Miguelillo 87

Aserolf said:


> Para mí, este término es muy ofensivo. Existe la piel morena, piel apiñonada, piel blanca, piel negra - pero jamás he oido de la _piel prieta_.
> 
> *Los negros no causan problemas? Es decir, que siendo negro lo normal es que causen problemas? *
> 
> ¡En México, la discriminación por el color de la piel *sí* existe!


 

 Creo malentendiste mis palabra o no me di a explica bien, lo que quise decir es que si la persona es negra, no hay problema con ello, no me cause irritación, enojo, molestia o cualquier sentimiento negativo, y bueno tal vez mirx y yo hablamos de esta NO existencia de rascismo porque en nuestro entorno no existe o no la palpamos tan directamente, reitero todo lo que he escrito en este hilo, pero tal vez agregandole el sujeto YO; es decir YO no he visto la disdriminación en mi trabajo, en mi familia ni yo la he propiciado.

Claro si al parecer es más generalizad ala idea que el racismo Sí existe entonces tal vez el que está mal es yo. 

Pero bueno espero todas mis acepciones y el NO rascismo en México llegue a ser una realidad y no sólo un pensamiento subjetivo mio.


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## Hidrocálida

Comparto la idea de Miguelillo, las clases en México estan basadas más en el dinero que posees que en tu color de piel. En mi familia como en muchas familias mexicanas suele haber varios tonos de piel. En general mi familia tiene la piel blanca o morena clara(de mi familia paterna mi padre es el único moreno, la familia de mi madre es blanca de esos weros colorados),.
Bueno el caso es que uno de mi hermanos se casó con una morena(prieta)tiene doshijos(el hijo varón es idéntico en el color de piel a kalimba )
Su nivel económico es alto y mi sobrino siempre es recibido muy bien, la mayoría de sus amigos tambien son de estrato alto (siempre ha estudiado en colegios privados caros). Pero claro, es que dicen que con dinero baila el perro.
En Aguascalientes no me ha tocado ver discriminación con las personas morenas, lo que me tocó enterarme, es que hace aproximadamente 10 años , cada cierta temprada venian Marías(indígenas) a pedir limosna y el gobernador las expulsó de nuestra ciudad (organizó un camión para que las llevara hasta sus lugares de origén) y se les amenazó para que no regresaran, esto fué un verdadero escándalo.
Saludos


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## Roberto_Mendoza

Hidrocálida said:


> En Aguascalientes no me ha tocado ver discriminación con las personas morenas, lo que me tocó enterarme, es que hace aproximadamente 10 años , cada cierta temprada venian Marías(indígenas) a pedir limosna y el gobernador las expulsó de nuestra ciudad (organizó un camión para que las llevara hasta sus lugares de origén) y se les amenazó para que no regresaran, esto fué un verdadero escándalo.
> Saludos



Y si esto no es un racismo exacerbado enteramente ligado a la clase social, ¿entonces qué es?

Como dijeran por ahí, no le busquen tetas a las culebras, en México la clase social y el racismo duermen en la misma cama. Saludos.


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