# حرام



## Ali.h

I was having an argument with my Saudi girlfriend and she said to me 'haraam yaa Ali haraaam' and no i didn't ask her if we could eat PORK, it was just an argument we were having and boom out of the blue she said that, now I obviously understnd haraam means forbidden, but is this word used as slang in Saudi Arabia to mean something else? and also can u give me an English word that's an equivalent of what she meant?


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## ajami

It means,you shouldnt say that/very bad,dont say or do/its ill/be hold/etc.


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## suma

shame on you , shame on you!


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## Masjeen

Well, It's like saying that "This is Prohibited, This is Prohibited"


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## WadiH

It can be used when you're convincing someone not to do something: e.g. haraam, don't do it, it's not worth it.

It can also be said as an expression of pity.


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## Ali.h

suma said:


> shame on you , shame on you!


 
You mean it can mean 'shame on you', or you're saying that to me?


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## oojrod

From my understanding and experience of the usage of this phrase, it usually means 'shame on you', or 'don't go there', or perhaps an admonishment like 'tsk, tsk'. Of course, if the context involves religiously haram items/activities, then the meaning is different.


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## ThomasK

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
How could one explain the word etymologically, if I may ask? I have read 'sinful' as a translation, and I suppose that is about as it is used nowadays, but what would be the root?

I had thought of something like 'excluded', or 'forbidden', as I once read that 'harem' has the same root. The term 'holy' (and thus sanctuary, so forbidden) might apply as well.

Can anyone enlighten me on this, or refer to some website?


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## Ihsiin

'Sinful' is a poor translation - 'forbidden' is more accurate, with the connection to 'sacred' as you have suggested.


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## ThomasK

Thanks. Is there a verb the word is derived from? Like 'sacrify' or 'forbid'?


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## Ihsiin

The verb حرّم means 'to forbid', and can also mean 'to sanctify', but for the latter I'd say قدّس is more common.


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## ThomasK

Great, thanks for the information.

Just by the way: Google Translate translates your first word as 'campus' (but of course, it is "only" Google T, not a specialised translation machine), but I suppose that is a reference to confinement, which may be implied by forbidding (forbidden to come in or go out/ leave)...


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## Ibn Nacer

J'ai aussi vu le sens de "campus" ou "enceinte" ou "mur" mais c'est le mot  حَرَمٌ :

حَرَمُ جَامِعَةٍ ‪*campus* d’une université
حَرَمُ دَيْرٍ ‪clôture d’un couvent
حَرَمُ المَحْكَمَة ‪l’enceinte du tribunal

Source : http://www.ldlp-dictionary.com

Et dans le Larousse : Dans les murs de cet établissement  في حَرَمِ هَذِهِ المُؤَسَّسةِ

Mais je ne sais pas si c'est correcte, peut-être que quelqu'un nous informera...


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## ThomasK

L'explication dans LDLP rend les choses beaucoup plus claires, en effet. Ces exemples "mettent en perspective", je dirais...


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## ajamiyya عجمية

I hope that the following information can be of some use to you.

The root ح ر م is quite complex and is used to express (in various permutations) concepts as diverse as prohibition, femininity, confinement, sanctuary, and more. 

In colloquial usage حرام عليك and يا حرام are often used to scold a person, whether a child or an adult.  It can be mild, flirtatious, or severe.  It can be used directly or in the third person.  It can be an expression of sympathy quite close to "poor thing" as well as a warning of indignation better translated as "How dare you!"  Tone of voice and context are vital to understanding the intended meaning. 

Dialect plays a role in the likely meaning of the phrase, which can lead to confusion when speakers of different dialects think that they have understood one another when, in actuality, they have their wires crossed. 

A more formal facet of this root can be expressed by its usage as it appertains to The Pilgrimage to Mecca, whether Major (The Hadj/Hajj) or Minor (The 'Umrah).

Where does one go to perform The Pilgrimage? Ultimately, at Sacred Mosque, or, المسجد الحرام, "Al-Masjid Al-Haraam".  One goes there in order to perform The Sacred Rites which, in turn, are usually under-taken during The Sacred Months. 

The entire region surrounding Mecca is considered to be "The Haram", or "The Sanctuary". 

War and hunting (as well as some other activities) are prohibited within the confines of "The Haram".  The prohibitions are complicated and time-bound and subject to exceptions during exceptional circumstances, whether personal or general.

When a Pilgrim passes through the boundary which marks the beginning of this geographical region, on the way to Pilgrimage, he is obliged to enter into a state of ritual purity which is called  احرام.

The same word, الإحرام,(al-IHraam) is also the name of the two-piece garment, white in color and un-sewn by stipulation, which is worn by all male Pilgrims, regardless of the individual's wealth, ethnic back-ground, or any other considerations:  It is the ultimate egalitarian statement, reminding Mankind that we are all equal in the sight of God, Who looks not upon our outward appearances; rather, He discerns that which is within the innermost recesses of each individual.


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## ThomasK

Very interesting background information, for sure. Just thinking that feminity might just be an indirect meaning, or a cause for confinement, i.e., preservation... More like one of the most precious qualities to be preserved for example?

A sanctuary in English works like this too, I think: as it is holy (sanct-), certain things are forbidden and as a result people are safe (safely confined ?) in it. The link with the garment is less clear, except that too is a consequence of the holiness of the place...

I think that explains the ambiguity of the term (sinful vs. holy): both are at the other ends of the scale imposed by some 'border', 'rule', etc.


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## Ibn Nacer

Ibn Nacer said:


> J'ai aussi vu le sens de "campus" ou "enceinte" ou "mur" mais c'est le mot  حَرَمٌ :
> 
> حَرَمُ جَامِعَةٍ ‪*campus* d’une université



Dans un autre dictionnaire on a : الحَرَم المكيّ/ القدسيّ/ النبويّ/ الجامعيّ

La structure est différente :

- حَرَمُ جَامِعَةٍ ---> annexion (mudhâf + mudhâf ilayhi)
- الحَرَم الجامعيّ ---> nom + adjectif


Et j'ai vu sur le web :

Name :جامعة بيتسبرغ، بيتسبرغ الحرم الجامعي
English Name: University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Campus

Mais je ne comprends la structure de :  بيتسبرغ الحرم الجامعي et est-ce qu'il y a un rapport avec le "sacré" ?

EDIT : Un lien https://ar.wikipedia.org


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## gbasfora

Hi,

My parents are palestinians and the word *حراميّ* is used by them to mean thief. I would like to know  what is the relationship between* حراميّ* and *حرام*

Thanks


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## cherine

ThomasK said:


> Just thinking that feminity might just be an indirect meaning, or a cause for confinement, i.e., preservation... More like one of the most precious qualities to be preserved for example?


I think Ajamiyya was thinking of the words حُرمة and حريم which are used in some countries to refer to woman/women. But these words don't mean "feminity", they just refer to the fact that a woman is considered prohibited to non-related men, kind of sacred or owed respect in a way.



> The link with the garment is less clear, except that too is a consequence of the holiness of the place.


The garment is called with the name of the action by extension. إحرام iHraam is entering the place and state of purification necessary to perform pilgrimage.


Ibn Nacer said:


> Mais je ne comprends la structure de :  بيتسبرغ الحرم الجامعي et est-ce qu'il y a un rapport avec le "sacré" ?


Le campus n'est pas sacré dans le sens religieux du terme, c'est seulement l'idée du respect due au lieu et aussi le sens de clôture: les batiments de l'université sans groupés dans un même حرم/campus.



gbasfora said:


> My parents are palestinians and the word *حراميّ* is used by them to mean thief. I would like to know what is the relationship between* حراميّ* and *حرام*


We use حرامي Haraami/7araami in Egypt with the same meaning. I think it comes from the fact that he commits a sinful act, something Haraam حرام.


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## Ibn Nacer

cherine said:


> Le campus n'est pas sacré dans le sens religieux du terme, c'est seulement l'idée du respect due au lieu et aussi le sens de clôture: les batiments de l'université sans groupés dans un même حرم/campus.


Merci. Oui c'est vrai que dans les exemples (reproduis ci-dessus) il y a l'idée de clôture, murs, enceinte... J'ai l'impression que ça désigne un lieu, un espace, un domaine, ce qui est à l'intérieur de certaines limites (murs, clôture...)...




Ibn Nacer said:


> J'ai aussi vu le sens de "campus" ou "enceinte" ou "mur" mais c'est le mot  حَرَمٌ :
> 
> حَرَمُ جَامِعَةٍ ‪*campus* d’une université
> حَرَمُ دَيْرٍ ‪clôture d’un couvent
> حَرَمُ المَحْكَمَة ‪l’enceinte du tribunal
> 
> Source : http://www.ldlp-dictionary.com
> 
> Et dans le Larousse : Dans les murs de cet établissement  في حَرَمِ هَذِهِ المُؤَسَّسةِ


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