# Swedish: comparatives



## Toadie

Hello everyone
I'm extremely new to the Swedish language, though I do have a background in German.  I'm currently reading about forming comparative adjectives.  My question is, are there any times when you MUST use _mer_ and _mest_ as opposed to _-are _and _-ast_?  Based on what I'm reading, it seems to be a matter of opinion, and often there are large consensuses, but even in these cases, either way is acceptable.  I get the feeling this is not true.

Thanks


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## Wilma_Sweden

The cases where you MUST use mer/mest are pretty clear: when the adjective is formed from the perfect participle of a verb, such as irriterad, besegrad (irritated, conquered), there is no alternative. You can't say "irriteradare", you must say mer irriterad/mest irriterad. The same is true for those formed by the present participle: mer irriterande/mest irriterande (irritating) are the only acceptable options.

At the moment I can't think of any adjectives that can be compared using either construction, i.e. free choice. Since it's New Year's Day, I blame this entirely on temporary loss of brain function ("pickled brain syndrome"?)...  If you can come up with some examples mentioned in your literature, I'd be happy to oblige with comments or opinions.

/Wilma


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## Toadie

A few examples that they say can "waver" are:
röd (although they explain the differences between the two forms of that)
bekväm
interessant

I'm sure there are more, but I don't feel like skimming through the whole thing at the moment.

Thanks for the reply, and happy New Year to you!


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## Wilma_Sweden

OK, it is true that polysyllabic adjectives, particularly abstract ones imported from other languages, may take either form. 

For example, I'd say bekvämare, but mer intressant. If in doubt, I look in the Swedish text corpus, Språkbanken, and pick whatever form looks most common.

I'd be interested to find out what explanation they give for the colour red. I can't think of any context where I would use mer röd instead of rödare.

/Wilma


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## Toadie

> These words can use _mer/mest_ too, but usually don't, and when they do, it can often suggest a slightly different nuance of meaning (for instance, "_mer röd_" may suggest a meaning like "more like red", "more towards red" rather than a plain "redder").


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## Wilma_Sweden

Yes, that makes sense, although I'd never thought about it. Thanks!

/Wilma


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## Södertjej

Another possibility. You could use "mer(a) rött" like a noun. Imagine someone making a special decoration (like a Christmas tree, flowers or whatever) and he's not happy with the predent colours, he wants more flowers or garlands or whatever in red so he'd say "I want more red and less white " meaning more thing in red and less things in white.


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## dinji

Södertjej said:


> Another possibility. You could use "mer(a) röd" like a noun. Imagine someone making a special decoration (like a Christmas tree, flowers or whatever) and he's not happy with the predent colours, he wants more flowers or garlands or whatever in red so he'd say "I want more red and less white " meaning more thing in red and less things in white.


...except that then it would read "mer(a) rött" in neuter gender. The adjective in utrum implies a noun in singular, like "färg" or "dekorering" but the sentence does not work unless such a noun was mentioned right before in the previous sentence in the dialogue.


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## Södertjej

Oh, silly me, you're absolutely right! what was I thinking of?


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## Wilma_Sweden

Södertjej said:


> Oh, silly me, you're absolutely right! what was I thinking of?


It's easy to get mixed up. I had to think about this a bit to see what would work. *Taken out of context*, mer rött can be understood as:
1) the comparative 'mer'-form of the adjective 'red' with neuter nouns  OR 
2) the nominal use as suggested by Södertjej, meaning 'more quantity of the colour red'. 
Mer röd can ONLY be understood as the comparative mer-form of the adjective 'red' with utrum nouns. 

/Wilma


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## dinji

dinji said:


> ...except that then it would read "mer(a) rött" in neuter gender. The adjective in utrum implies a noun in singular, like "färg" or "dekorering" but the sentence does not work unless such a noun was mentioned right before in the previous sentence in the dialogue.


 
I was thinking of a dialogue of the following kind:

- Vi har prytt granen mycket i guld och silver. Kanske vi borde hänga upp mera blå dekorering?
- Jag tycker vi ska ha mer röd
Here we have a nominal use as suggested by Södertjej, don't we?


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## Södertjej

Jo, det var precis det jag menade, fast visst skulle man gärna sägä rött, som du föreslog.


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## Wilma_Sweden

dinji said:


> - Vi har prytt granen mycket i guld och silver. Kanske vi borde hänga upp mera blå dekorering?
> - Jag tycker vi ska ha mer röd
> Here we have a nominal use as suggested by Södertjej, don't we?


I don't agree, in your example I see it as an adjective, and dekorering is omitted but understood. The -marked red expressions are what I consider as unidiomatic or incorrect , while green ones are OK : 
- * Jag tycker vi ska ha mer röd.  Having a 'dangling' adjective with no nouns or pronouns nearby simply doesn't work for me. I would have answered:
- Jag tycker vi ska ha mer rött. (= noun: more of the colour red)

If we ask a simple question and consider the possible answers, here's how I see them:

Q: Hur vill du ha *det*? (arbetet, konstverket, etc.)
A: 
Mer rött!   adjective or noun
* Mer röd! 
Jag vill ha mer rött!  noun    
* Jag vill ha mer röd!   adjective masquerading as noun
Jag vill ha det mer rött!  adjective
Jag vill ha mer rött i det!  noun

Q: Hur vill du ha *den*? (dekoreringen, granen etc.)
A: 
Mer rött!   I would think of the noun use, which is kind of OK.
Mer röd!  adjective
Jag vill ha mer rött!  noun    
* Jag vill ha mer röd!  adjective masquerading as noun
Jag vill ha den mer röd!  adjective
Jag vill ha mer rött i den!  noun

I hope this makes sense. The possible responses clearly depend on what is omitted but understood, or expressed specifically.

/Wilma


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## Södertjej

Wilma_Sweden said:


> IQ: Hur vill du ha *den*? (dekoreringen, granen etc.)
> A:
> Mer rött!   I would think of the noun use, which is kind of OK.
> *Mer röd! adjective*
> Jag vill ha mer rött! noun
> * Jag vill ha mer röd!  adjective masquerading as noun
> Jag vill ha den mer röd! adjective
> Jag vill ha mer rött i den! noun


Svaret i lila är vad jag menade


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