# Bone of contention, pomme de discorde



## ThomasK

What would be your translation of the above? I mean: that what is causing trouble

ENG *bone of contention*
FRA *pomme de discorde*
Dutch t*wistappel (apple of discord, of contention perhaps)
*
But there is also *"steen des aanstoots"* (stone of offence, i.e., that which someone takes offence at that).


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## apmoy70

Greek:

*«Το μήλον της έριδος»* [to ˈmilon tis ˈeɾiðos] --> _the apple of strife_

The phrase's taken from the Greek myth about The Judgement of Paris.
During a contest between the Olympian goddesses Athena, Aphrodite, and Hera on who's the fairest, the three goddesses asked Paris, the son of Priam, king of Troy, to make the judgement. The prize was a golden apple with the inscription *«τῇ καλλίστῃ» tê̩ kallístē̩* (to the fairest).
Eris, the goddess of strife, was not invited and she caused a strife between the goddesses, which resulted into Paris giving the apple to Aphrodite, swayed by her promise to bestow upon him Helen, the most beautiful woman, for wife. The subsequent abduction of Helen led to the Trojan War.

*«Ἔρις» érĭs* (3rd declension fem. noun, nom. sing.), *«ἔριδος» érĭdŏs* (gen. sing.) --> _strife, discord, quarrel, (personification of strife) goddess «Ἔρις»_ (with unknown etymology).


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## Armas

Finnish: *kiistakapula* < _kiista_ "dispute, contention" + _kapula_ "a small, solid piece of wood, often shaped for a useful function, a billet"


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## ThomasK

The second term that I mentioned in Dutch refers to the Bible, so I know discover (1 Petr 2:8): something like a *stumbling block, in Dutch normally "struikelsteen"*.

I now realize that you could read the word I mentioned as such but the language in Dutch is fairly archaic and I had not realized that meaning. However, in this case it only causes you to stumble about it in a figurative sense, because you are so shocked, irritated, annoyed, about it...


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## ilocas2

Czech:

*jablko sváru* - apple of contention, strife, discord
*kámen úrazu* - stone of injury


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## bazq

ThomasK said:


> The second term that I mentioned in Dutch refers to the Bible, so I know discover (1 Petr 2:8): something like a *stumbling block, in Dutch normally "struikelsteen"*.
> 
> I now realize that you could read the word I mentioned as such but the language in Dutch is fairly archaic and I had not realized that meaning. However, in this case it only causes you to stumble about it in a figurative sense, because you are so shocked, irritated, annoyed, about it...



In Hebrew "bone of contention" is "*סלע* המחלוקת" [*sela *hamaxloket] = "*Rock/stone* (of) the disagreement". 
It's from the Hebrew Bible 1 Samuel 23:28.

I checked the Hebrew translation of the New Testament (1 Peter 2:8), and it uses a different term (with the word "stone/rock" as well), but it means a slightly different thing - "an obstacle", no connotation of disagreement between parties per se. The term is 
"*אבן *נגף ו*צור* מכשול" [*'even* negef ve*tsur* mixshol]. It's a combination of two terms which mean basically the same thing  -"rock (of) obstacle". 

סלע, אבן, צור - sela, 'even, tsur all mean "rock" in Hebrew, though they usually refer to different sizes of rocks.


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## apmoy70

bazq said:


> In Hebrew "bone of contention" is "*סלע* המחלוקת" [*sela *hamaxloket] = "*Rock/stone* (of) the disagreement".
> It's from the Hebrew Bible 1 Samuel 23:28.
> 
> I checked the Hebrew translation of the New Testament (1 Peter 2:8), and it uses a different term (with the word "stone/rock" as well), but it means a slightly different thing - "an obstacle", no connotation of disagreement between parties per se...


That would be *«λίθος προσκόμματος» lítʰŏs prŏskómmātŏs* in the original Greek language of the epistle, which we don't use at all.
*
«Πρόσκομμα» próskŏmmă* (3rd declension neut. nom. sing.), *«προσκόμματος» prŏskómmātŏs* (3rd declension neut. gen. sing.) = compound; Classical preposition, and adverb *«πρός» prόs* --> _furthermore, thereto, from, by, at, to, towards, in face of_ (PIE *proti- _against_ cf Skt. प्रति (práti), _against, to, about_, Lat. pretium, Proto-Slavic *protivъ, _against_ > Rus. против, Ukr. проти, Pol. przeciw, Cz./Svk proti) + Classical deverbative neut. noun *«κόμμᾰ» kómmă* --> _that which is cut off, piece, stamp_ or _impression of a coin, contusion_ < Classical v. *«κόπτω» kóptō* --> _to strike, smite, hew, hammer, disable, tire out_ (PIE *kop- _to strike_ cf Proto-Slavic *kopati, _to dig_).

Thomas on the other hand refers to *«πέτρα σκανδάλου» pétrā skăndálou* --> _stone of offence_; *«σκάνδαλον»* is literally _the trap_, but Peter uses it as _offence, temptation, scandal _(influenced by the Biblical language of the LXX scholars who translated the Hebrew scripture). The whole phrase in 1 Peter 2:8 is *«λίθος προσκόμματος καὶ πέτρα σκανδάλου»*.
That, we do use, as *«η πέτρα του σκανδάλου»* [i ˈpetra tu skanˈðalu] --> _the stone of temptation_ (it's one of the TV cliché phrases).


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## Penyafort

Catalan:* poma de la discòrdia*
Spanish: *manzana de la discordia
*
Also with a mythological origin, something prone to be a cause of trouble was Pandora's box:

Catalan: *la capsa de Pandora *_or _*la capsa dels trons *(the box of thunders)
Spanish: *la caja de Pandora*


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## jazyk

Portuguese: pomo da discórdia; caixa de Pandora (Portugal and Brazil), boceta de Pandora (Portugal). Boceta in Brazil is a vulgar denomination of a woman's private parts.


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## Rallino

Turkish: *çıban başı* (lit: head of abscess)


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## ThomasK

jazyk said:


> Portuguese: pomo da discórdia; caixa de Pandora (Portugal and Brazil), boceta de Pandora (Portugal). Boceta in Brazil is a vulgar denomination of a woman's private parts.


_*Caixa*_ would then be something like the box, I suppose: Pandora's box. However, are we then referring to the same thing? That box generated/ contained evil, like a poisonous present (whereby we always forget about hope (/elpis/, I believe, remaining in it). Do you think it refers to the same thing as the bone of contention? I can see a possible link, but... 

As for the bone: I had so far thought that this might refer to the bone two dogs were fighting for and which was grabbed by the third one. I suppose in the King James' Bible it is the "rock of offence". So where does the "bone" come from, do you think?


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## jazyk

I didn't write anything about bones. I just used Penyafort's template in post 8.


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## ThomasK

With the "bone" point I did not mean to refer to you. It was a general question.

But I understand what you mean: I see P explained a possible link, but I had not noticed that. I apologize!


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## eno2

Some time ago, I have been  looking for the translation of 'splijtzwam', as I couldn't find much for 'twistappel'. Result: 


eno2 said:


> It's a bone of contention.
> Manzana de la discordia
> Pomme de discorde
> μήλο της έριδας (milo is appel)
> *der Spaltpilz Der Zankapfel*
> 
> Twistappels...splijtzwammen ... en vechten om een been (bij ons de honden)



Waiting for a German confirmation...


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## ThomasK

That is an interesting addition. In French it is translated fairly literally (_schizomycete_), but I am not so sure it has the figurative meaning. However, I suddenly find *brandon de discorde*, which must be a kind of coal, or burning matter, as far as I can see or guess.

I also find _*fission fungus*_ and _*germen (germ, kiem?) de desintegracion*_ in Spanish, but again: is the former used meaning "bone of contention'??? Not sure at all, the latter does for sure, but it is not a strict translation. .


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## rusita preciosa

Russian: *яблоко раздора* /yabloko razdora/ - apple of disagreement


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## Frank78

eno2 said:


> Waiting for a German confirmation...



"Spaltpilz" doesn't exist (at least to my knowledge) but "Zankapfel" - apple of spat - is correct.

Another translation would be "der Stein des Anstosses" - "the stone of impact (on others)". From Luther's bible translation, Rom 9:32: "They stumbled over the stumbling stone."


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## eno2

I got Duden online now, so I can check. (This is my first check)
The same metaphorical use of Spaltpilz  is possible as for splijtzwam. And they are literally the same too. Spalten is splijten  and Pilz is zwam. So Spaltpilz = splijtzwam. Schwamm (zwam) is a synonym of Pilz. My German is bad and I'm always happy when the words are the same (as in Dutch).


> Spaltpilz:
> 
> [Pilze vermehren sich u. a. durch Spaltung der Zellen] (Biologie, Medizin veraltet) Bakterie
> [scherzhafte Übertragung von 1 unter Anlehnung an: spalten (1d)] (scherzhaft) etwas, was die Einheit bedroht, wovon die Gefahr einer Spaltung ausgeht



Duden | Spaltpilz | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme


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## ThomasK

Sehr interessant! ;-) But should then not all PIlze/ mushrooms be _schizo_-? I think there must be something more to it.


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## Kotlas

Italian:
il pomo della discordia

In Russian, we also have another expression  (very informal and somewhat wordier):
весь сыр-бор* разгорелся из-за - the entire pine forest caught fire because of... [ves' syr-bor razga'relsya iz-za]
*сыр-бор [syr-bor] is a pine forest in a swamp area

The phrase has several meanings, one of them is similar to that of _the apple of discord_ (i.e. something that causes unhappiness or trouble; a cause of strife or argument).


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## ThomasK

I am not sure I understand well: does the expression mean "the problem started/ was caused by ..."? I suppose so, but I'd like to see it confirmed...


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## Kotlas

ThomasK said:


> I am not sure I understand well: does the expression mean "the problem started/ was caused by ..."? I suppose so, but I'd like to see it confirmed...


Yes, it indicates the cause of strife or trouble, just like _the apple of discord_  phrase.


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## ilocas2

Czech (continuation):

*Pandořina skříňka* - Pandora's ...

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Croatian:

*jabuka/kamen/kost razdora* - apple/stone/bone of ...
*kamen/kost smutnje* - stone/bone of ...
*Pandorina kutija* - Pandora's box


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