# Hindi/Urdu: thanda, garam



## Kasrav

garam paani, garam hawa

thanda paani, thandi hawa

Are there other adjectives like garam where the adjective doesnt decline / is the same for both masc and fem nouns ? Maybe adjective of color like safed.

Is there any theorie as to how these developed ? Was declination of adjectives a later trend...

kasrav


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## Qureshpor

Kasrav said:


> garam paani, garam hawa
> 
> thanda paani, thandi hawa
> 
> Are there other adjectives like garam where the adjective doesnt decline / is the same for both masc and fem nouns ? Maybe adjective of color like safed.
> 
> Is there any theorie as to how these developed ? Was declination of adjectives a later trend...
> 
> kasrav


*<Snipped>*
To answer your question, adjectives ending in "-aa" generally decline for masculine and feminine nouns.

kaalaa dhaagaa (black thread)

kaalii qamiis (black shirt)

sard paanii (cold water)
garm (not garam) paanii

siyaah rang (black colour)
siyaah qamiis (black shirt)


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## greatbear

*<Snipped>*
"garam" by the way is also fine: not that many people speak "garm".


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## Qureshpor

Kasrav, at least in Urdu, the correct word is "garm" and not "garam". This does not imply that "garam" is never used by people. Of course it is. But, I am expecting that a learner of the language would wish to learn the correct words and not the colloquial ones. You would wish to know that the word is "taraazuu" (a pair of scales) and not "taraajuu" or "phuul" (flower) and not "fuul" etc. Just like in English, as a beginner you would be taught "is not" and "is n't" but not "ain't"


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## Kasrav

Thanks. I appreciate you helping me understand the nuances between standard, colloquial, sophisticated... ! No problem.  
I think sometimes these problems occur also because each of us tend to follow our own way of transliterating what we want to ask/say in the Roman alphabet.


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## tonyspeed

Kasrav said:


> garam paani, garam hawa
> 
> thanda paani, thandi hawa
> 
> Are there other adjectives like garam where the adjective doesnt decline / is the same for both masc and fem nouns ? Maybe adjective of color like safed.
> 
> Is there any theorie as to how these developed ? Was declination of adjectives a later trend...
> 
> kasrav




The only adjectives that decline are ones that end in "aa" in their normal state. No other adjectives decline. 

examples: THaNDaa, baRaa, gandaa, CHoTaa


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## omlick

There are a few adjectives that end in"aa" that are invariable.  ghaTiyaa is one example.  I am not sure how many of these exceptions there are.


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## greatbear

omlick said:


> There are a few adjectives that end in"aa" that are invariable.  ghaTiyaa is one example.  I am not sure how many of these exceptions there are.



Yes, "baRhiyaa" is another such example. I think a new learner will have to remember all these exceptions case by case, as s/he encounters them.


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## Abu Talha

greatbear said:


> I think a new learner will have to remember all these exceptions case by case, as s/he encounters them.


Do you think these exceptions all end with _-yaa_ ?

Also worth mentioning are adjectives which sound as if they should decline, but don't, like _zindah_.


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## JaiHind

Some examples I can think of:

सुन्दर राजा, सुन्दर रानी
मंदबुद्धि लड़का, मंदबुद्धि लड़की 
साफ कपडा, साफ कंघी


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## Qureshpor

JaiHind said:


> Some examples I can think of:
> 
> सुन्दर राजा, सुन्दर रानी
> मंदबुद्धि लड़का, मंदबुद्धि लड़की
> साफ कपडा, साफ कंघी



Could you please convert your Nagri to Roman so that everyone has access to the information.


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## flyinfishjoe

Many adjectives ending in -_aa_* borrowed from Persian do not decline, e.g., _zindaa, murdaa, pasandiidaa, _etc.


*While these end in -_aa_ in Hindi, I think some (all?) of them end in _-aah_ in Urdu.


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## marrish

flyinfishjoe said:


> Many adjectives ending in -_aa_* borrowed from Persian do not decline, e.g., _zindaa, murdaa, pasandiidaa, _etc.
> 
> 
> *While these end in -_aa_ in Hindi, I think some (all?) of them end in _-aah_ in Urdu.



These adjectives have -ah in both Persian and Urdu, not -aah. The convention is to write them with -aa in Nagari.
Not all of them have the -ah as last syllable.


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## Kasrav

Thank you all for the examples, exceptions and explanations !! 
Apart from based on the ending sound (aa ah) etc..can there also be rules (will decline  / not decline) based on type of attribute like national, community, of nationality, State, Government - qaumi, sarkari, roosi (Russian) etc. ? (pardon the transliteration)


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## Qureshpor

Let's have a little summary.

Indic adjectives ending in "aa"

These decline to "e" for the masculine plural and "ii" to the feminine singular and plural*.

goraa laRkaa:    fair (skinned) boy
gore laRke:       fair boys

gorii laRkii:       fair girl
gorii laRkiyaaN: fair girls

*In the older language, you will find examples of "goriyaaN laRkiyaaN", "raateN bhaariyaaN" etc. This also applied to verbs too.

kyoN kih dil apnaa mukaddar** zindagii se ab nah ho
suurateN kyaa kyaa zamiiN meN ham ne gaRiyaaN dekhiyaaN

Mirza Muhammad Rafi Sauda*** (1713-1781)

In the modern language, we would have "gaRii dekhiiN"

** disturbed/troubled (not to be confused with muqaddar (fate)

Non-Indic Urdu adjectives (Persian and Arabic)

 Non-declinable: e.g. daanaa (wise), zindah (alive), sharmindah (ashamed), do-saalah (biannual), 3umdah (=baRhiyaa)

Declinable: kamiinah, be-chaarah, saadah (1), gandah

Adjectives that end in a consonant do not decline: kaThin, nek, xuub, jamiil, Hasiin, saaf

(But note: achchhoN ne, nekoN ne..HasiinoN ne but NOT xuuboN ne, )

 ziyaadah xuub, aur HasiiN (better, fairer/more beautiful)

bih (good), bih-tar (better), bih-tariin (best)
bad (bad), bad-tar (worse), bad-tariin (worst)

baRaa achhaa, bahut xuub (very good)
bahut suthraa, bahut saaf (very clean)

nihaayat xuub-suurat (exceedingly beautiful)

(1) This is more a non-declinable than a declinable adjective but one does come across "saadii". Perhaps, this is an accepted "Ghalatu_l3aam".

*** Mirzaa MuHammad Rafii3 Saudaa


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## UrduMedium

Abu Talha said:


> Do you think these exceptions all end with _-yaa_ ?
> 
> Also worth mentioning are adjectives which sound as if they should decline, but don't, like _zindah_.



How about the not so uncommon usage as in, 'un kaa shumaar to _zindoN _meN hai nah _murdoN _meN"? (he/she doesn't count among the living nor the dead).


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## marrish

UrduMedium said:


> How about the not so uncommon usage as in, 'un kaa shumaar to _zindoN _meN hai nah _murdoN _meN"? (he/she doesn't count among the living nor the dead).


I'm experiencing "zindoN" and "murdoN" in your sentence as adjectival nouns which decline freely.


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