# Swedish: 1700-talsromanens sätt att berätta



## Moha Ash

Hejsan

Just nu läser jag om upplysningens århundrade på svenska och jag har kommit över denna rubrik " *1700-talsromanens sätt att berätta* " som jag inte har kunnat översätta till engelska. _Kan någon hjälpa och berätta för mig hur den skulle sägas på *engelska*, tack?_


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## Svenke

"the manner of telling (a story) (typical) of a novel from the 18th century"

Svenke


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## MattiasNYC

auehaaahuhmmm..... I'm not sure I like the translation that much, no offense I hope. It could possibly imply (?), in English, that we're looking at the way of telling a story from the 18th century novels. But that's not how I would read the headline. To me it reads as "1700's-novel's way of (story-) telling". That's obviously ugly English, but I think it shows the difference that I see. 

In other words, the headline says that novels in the 1700's told stories a particular way.


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## Svenke

Yes, I agree with MattiasNYC about the meaning.

Svenke


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## Moha Ash

MattiasNYC said:


> "*1700's-novel's way of (story-) telling*".
> 
> In other words, the headline says that novels in the 1700's told stories a particular way.



Thank you and yes, that's what I meant. However, don't you think "*(The)1700's way of storytelling*" or maybe *"(The) eighteenth century's way of storytelling"* would sound better?


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## MattiasNYC

Hmmm.... I suppose it depends on how important it is to emphasize that it is a novel we're talking about. After all, we could also tell stories orally, instead of in written form. But as I said above, the English version I wrote was ugly and just meant to illustrate a point. To me "18th century" sounds better in the examples you give above.

It's probably better to ask the question in the English forum.


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## Dan2

Svenke said:


> "the manner of telling (a story) (typical) of a novel from the 18th century"





MattiasNYC said:


> To me it reads as "1700's-novel's way of (story-) telling".


I interpret these two sentences identically.  I could be missing something, but I don't really see your objection to Svenke's formulation, Mattias.

How I would translate the phrase depends on how it's to be used.  Some suggestions for the title of an essay:
Storytelling in 18th century novels
How the 18th century novel told its story
Narration in 18th century novels


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## MattiasNYC

I thought it looked, at a glance, a bit like this:

[the manner of telling] [a story typical of a novel from the 18th century]

Maybe we don't currently tell old stories the way they used to be told back then. If we tell them differently, then [the manner of telling] one [story typical of a novel from the 18th century] could be different now from how it was told back then. Words are updated. Sentence structures are updated.....

Do you think that's a possible interpretation? (I'm not saying it's the likely one given contect)


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## Dan2

Svenke said:


> "the manner of telling (a story) (typical) of a novel from the 18th century"





MattiasNYC said:


> I thought it looked, at a glance, a bit like this:
> 
> [the manner of telling] [a story typical of a novel from the 18th century]


Aha.  I think the reason I had trouble seeing that interpretation (without your bracketing) is that "telling a story" is such a familiar, high-frequency phrase that you feel the need to keep it together, and so the default parsing is
[the manner of telling a story] [typical of a novel from the 18th century].  But I can see how one might read it your way.

I alla fall... if you think my English renditions are OK, we're all set...


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## MattiasNYC

Dan2 said:


> Aha.  I think the reason I had trouble seeing that interpretation (without your bracketing) is that "telling a story" is such a familiar, high-frequency phrase that you feel the need to keep it together,



Yeah, I think I agree with that actually.


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## DerFrosch

Dan2 said:


> Storytelling in 18th century novels
> How the 18th century novel told its story
> Narration in 18th century novels




I like all those suggestions, Dan. In fact, I intended to suggest something similar yesterday but never got around to it (it's true, I promise). Anyway, I think the key to an idiomatic translation here is to not try to include a direct equivalent to "_sätt_", which I think would be rather clumsy.


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## Moha Ash

Dan2 said:


> I interpret these two sentences identically.  I could be missing something, but I don't really see your objection to Svenke's formulation, Mattias.
> 
> How I would translate the phrase depends on how it's to be used.  Some suggestions for the title of an essay:
> Storytelling in 18th century novels
> How the 18th century novel told its story
> Narration in 18th century novels



Thank you for your great help, but what about the suggestions I gave -*in reply #5*- above ? Do they make sense to you?


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## Dan2

They make sense and are fully understandable, BUT... I agree with DerFrosch:


DerFrosch said:


> I think the key to an idiomatic translation here is to not try to include a direct equivalent to "_sätt_", which I think would be rather clumsy.


A specific objection to your "way of storytelling" is that "storytelling" is a noun and we usually use an -ing verb form* after "way of": "way of walking", "way of talking"; so "way of telling stories" would be better.  With that change your suggestions are "OK", but I like mine better...

A minor correction to your _The 1700's way of ..._ : We want the genitive of _1700s_ here, not of _1700_, so it would be _The 1700s' way of ..._
(I personally prefer, for ex., "1700s" to "eighteenth century" - I find it less confusing (and so I like the Scandinavian 1700-talet/tallet) - but in formal writing I think "eighteenth century" is more common.)

* but "way of life" is a a very common fixed expression


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## Moha Ash

Dan2 said:


> They make sense and are fully understandable, BUT... I agree with DerFrosch:
> 
> A specific objection to your "way of storytelling" is that "storytelling" is a noun and we usually use an -ing verb form* after "way of": "way of walking", "way of talking"; so "way of telling stories" would be better.  With that change your suggestions are "OK", but I like mine better...
> 
> A minor correction to your _The 1700's way of ..._ : We want the genitive of _1700s_ here, not of _1700_, so it would be _The 1700s' way of ..._
> (I personally prefer, for ex., "1700s" to "eighteenth century" - I find it less confusing (and so I like the Scandinavian 1700-talet/tallet) - but in formal writing I think "eighteenth century" is more common.)
> 
> * but "way of life" is a a very common fixed expression


So helpful and clear, Dan2. I appreciate your help.


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