# My Hebrew handwriting...



## Konstantinos

http://i.imgur.com/9X8YbyH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gSAF7Lk.jpg

I am good? What I must improve? Of course I like the Greek letters γ and δ ...

Edit: Ignore the attachment. I do not know how to remove it...


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## arielipi

Very good, i wish i had such nice handwriting, though no one really does two curves in ה, its more like ר and inside it a י


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## Konstantinos

Hahahaha... But now, I am wondering, if it is better to change my handwritting of ה, like your one...


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## ystab

You have a nice and clear  handwriting. Well done. 

The curved ה is totally fine. You shouldn't change it. 

Regarding the second photo, I do advise you, though, to try and write the letters more or less in the lower half of the line, so the tall letters (ט, ל, ף, ץ) would fill the entire line and stand out tall within the line.


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## arielipi

ystab said:


> You have a nice and clear  handwriting. Well done.
> 
> The curved ה is totally fine. You shouldn't change it.
> 
> Regarding the second photo, I do advise you, though, to try and write the letters more or less in the lower half of the line, so the tall letters (ט, ל, ף, ץ) would fill the entire line and stand out tall within the line.


Right, and also the low ones should start from the same place the regular ones and pulled downward (think of it like having 3 types of length for letters, much like in english)


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## arbelyoni

Good job, you have a very nice handwriting.

Just a few petty corrections that will help you make it look more "natural":
1) Start the letters in the middle of the blank space, between the two lines. Most of the letters should touch the lower line (except for ך, ק and ן that go under the line, like you did), the taller letters (ל,ף,ץ) end up higher, close to the upper line.
2) ב - try to take the round part lower to touch (or almost touch) the lower line.
3) ם - you should make it with one stroke, like a reversed 9.
4) Start the letter ת like the letter ר and then add the vertical line.

I attached a picture of my handwriting for you to compare...


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## ystab

arbelyoni said:


> Good job, you have a very nice handwriting.
> I attached a picture of my handwriting for you to compare...
> View attachment 13415



יש לך כתב יד מקסים!


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## arielipi

Oh, i feel compelled to attach mine own just to show you how good you are! be on it...


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## Codinome Shlomo

? (arbel's) מה "מה שיש" בכתב שלו
"אבל זה מה שיש [...]"

I mean, what does it mean. Excuse my Hebrew


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## arielipi

Here's mine
http://postimg.org/image/civof0orp/full/
http://postimg.org/image/b2k5wvlut/full/
http://postimg.org/image/qqld3o1gl/full/
You should know that many people (me included) combine letters or dont lift the pen up and thus have a connected cursive handwriting.
common letters are ש ג ט ל מ ת
and letters that are comfortable written one after the other.


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## ystab

Codinome Shlomo said:


> ? (arbel's) מה "מה שיש" בכתב שלו
> "אבל זה מה שיש [...]"
> 
> I mean, what does it mean. Excuse my Hebrew



זה מה שיש means that one has to settle with it, because that is what there is (that's the only thing available).


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## Drink

Here's mine (it's way too neat because I don't write in Hebrew enough to corrupt it):


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## Codinome Shlomo

Thanks, ystab!



Drink said:


> Here's mine (it's way too neat because I don't write in Hebrew enough to corrupt it):


Way too neat! 

Another ktav yad that I find very interesting is Chagall's. 
I wonder if Israelis find it neat or scrawled (since my handwriting is somewhat similar to his). Since he was a painter, I guess it is scrawled.  

The second line (below "ליבער מ. מאן") says: "איך שיק אייך איבער די עטלעכע"

(the file is actually written in Yiddish, but the alefbet is the same as in Hebrew)


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## Albert Schlef

Konstantinos said:


> I am good?



Well, it's fine.

It's fine like a handwriting of a child in the 1st grade is fine. Adults don't really write the way 1st graders write.

It's the same with every language: learners diligently mimic the shape of the letters shown in their books, but "native" speakers don't really write this way.

There's nothing we can do about it. We can't *intentionally* make our handwriting look "native". It should come naturally, with time.

In this modern age, it's not important to know to handwrite. There are no rules for handwriting: you're free to make the letters however you wish; the only rules: that you yourself can decipher your writing (because, in this modern age, nobody else is going to read it) and that you write quickly (that is, easily).

@arbelyoni's handwriting is of a native. "Real" handwritings, however, are typically less dandy and often slanted.
(@arielipi's is native, but I can't say much about it as it's not sentences.)
@Drink's handwriting is stilted and arrested. Not a native.


As for myself: I haven't quite written with pen & paper in years (the modern age, you know). I forced myself now (it's the lyrics for this song). Note the connected letters and the way "ת" is just a line. But this may not be candid writing, so I scanned a paper I wrote many years ago (first 2.5 lines: "בקניין רגיל: שהזמן גרמה. מי שכותב את שטר המכירה הוא המוכר"). You asked elsewhere about vowel point. As you can see, I happened to put the dot on the "vav" letter in the words בידו, לו, משהו, זו -- but it's not mandatory.


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## arielipi

Challenge accepted albert, ill be posting a full writing from me (maybe even something of a scientific value!)


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## Drink

Albert Schlef said:


> @Drink's handwriting is stilted and arrested. Not a native.



You're half right. I learned to read and write Hebrew when I was around five or six years old, which is probably the same age as most (or at least some) natives. Of course the difference between me and real natives is that real native children spend every day at school writing, whereas I never had to right more than maybe a small Hebrew writing exercise about once or twice a year. Native handwriting requires time to develop, and the only language I spent a lot of time writing is English.

But still, I'd like to know what you mean by "stilted and arrested".


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## arielipi

Drink said:


> But still, I'd like to know what you mean by "stilted and arrested".


It just looks too much as in the books to seem natural, youre going by the rules and not expressing yourself via the letters.

EDIT:
http://postimg.org/image/5k2fa2iqx/full/
http://postimg.org/image/uotfnhi7d/full/


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## Drink

arielipi said:


> It just looks too much as in the books to seem natural, youre going by the rules and not expressing yourself via the letters.



I disagree with that. First of all, I haven't looked in any "books" on cursive Hebrew in so long that I can hardly remember them. Second of all, neatness can be just as expressive as messiness. But other than that, I agree that my Hebrew handwriting is underdeveloped.


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## Albert Schlef

(Hey guys, before you read my post: don't pay too much attention to what I say. I just write of my impressions, which worth as any other guys's 2 cents.)



Drink said:


> But still, I'd like to know what you mean by "stilted and arrested".



By "arrested" I didn't mean "underdeveloped". (I also don't at all think your writing is "by the books".)

By "arrested" I meant that, as was my impression, you check (=stop) yourself. E.g., at the ends of many lines one can see the checked pen leaving a big dot (normally it's the opposite: ends are "pointy"). Sometimes the ending even turns on itself. The writing is done letter by letter, not word by word: we see that a letter doesn't (as is natural) affect the next one, which suggests that you stop after each letter. Incidentally, I can't help noticing the square turn of the ל. The "chupchik" of the ה, too: it's quite far from the bigger curve; as if you're thinking "and here comes the chupchik of the ה; It's a proper ה, yep, whatever you say. Right by the specifications." For the corner of the ל I'd imagine you saying "It's legit, whatever *you* say." Your ש suggests that you've taught yourself to write: you derived it from the "printed" ש letter. Also, while the writing itself may not be considered beautiful, I get the impression that there's something artistic in your writing as a whole.



arielipi said:


> EDIT:
> http://postimg.org/image/uotfnhi7d/full/



Yep, this writing it very different from the "demonstration" image you posted first.

 Your writing seems short on "shortcuts" writers often improvise. So it seems detailed. The last lines (2 or sometimes 3 lines) of each stanza seem, to me, different from the first lines. Maybe because you write more naturally there. These last lines seem more "healthy" (and I like them; the first lines I feel aversion to).


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## Drink

Albert Schlef said:


> By "arrested" I didn't mean "underdeveloped". (I also don't at all think your writing is "by the books".)
> 
> By "arrested" I meant that, as was my impression, you check (=stop) yourself. E.g., at the ends of many lines one can see the checked pen leaving a big dot (normally it's the opposite: ends are "pointy"). Sometimes the ending even turns on itself. The writing is done letter by letter, not word by word: we see that a letter doesn't (as is natural) affect the next one, which suggests that you stop after each letter. Incidentally, I can't help noticing the square turn of the ל. The "chupchik" of the ה, too: it's quite far from the bigger curve; as if you're thinking "and here comes the chupchik of the ה; It's a proper ה, yep, whatever you say. Right by the specifications." For the corner of the ל I'd imagine you saying "It's legit, whatever *you* say." Your ש suggests that you've taught yourself to write: you derived it from the "printed" ש letter. Also, while the writing itself may not be considered beautiful, I get the impression that there's something artistic in your writing as a whole.



Some of this might have to do with the fact that my right hand is not used to moving right-to-left, and so it doesn't flow smoothly (I have always heard that Hebrew is better for lefties). It is also partly because I have always thought that Hebrew letters should never be connected. The first time I even heard that some Israelis connect their letters was only a few months ago.

As for the ל, this has to do with the position of my hand, since it does not flow smoothly from right to left, my fingers have to stretch farther as the word progresses causing the sharp turn. A good example is כלל where my first ל is mostly round and the second one totally square. My ideal ל has a perfect curve, but I guess when I'm not trying hard that's what comes out.

As for the ה, I think that subconsciously I am concerned with making sure the chupchik doesn't touch the rest of the letter, making it look like a ח (like in the dead sea scrolls). Sometimes I accidentally make it too long and it looks like a ק.

As for the ש, you are totally right. When I was a kid, I didn't like that it looked like an "e", so I made it look more like a printed ש. I really like the Baal Shem Tov's ש, but it is too fancy for me to start using it, but I think I can do something in between.

And when you say that the writing itself is not beautiful, but is artistic as a whole. What do you mean by the "writing itself", and what do you mean by "as a whole"? Because otherwise it seems you are being contradictory.


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## arielipi

Albert Schlef said:


> By "arrested" I didn't mean "underdeveloped". (I also don't at all think your writing is "by the books".)


i agree with you, thats what i meant by "by the books"



Albert Schlef said:


> Yep, this writing it very different from the "demonstration" image you posted first.
> 
> Your writing seems short on "shortcuts" writers often improvise. So it seems detailed. The last lines (2 or sometimes 3 lines) of each stanza seem, to me, different from the first lines. Maybe because you write more naturally there. These last lines seem more "healthy" (and I like them; the first lines I feel aversion to).


didnt understand the "Your writing seems short on "shortcuts" writers often improvise." part, but yea, i feel more natural as i go by with something so each verse i read as a whole and then needed to write it down (you could say im warming up)


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## Konstantinos

And this is my improve after your advice:

http://i.imgur.com/FCGGbmQ.jpg

Before your advice:

http://i.imgur.com/gSAF7Lk.jpg

So?


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## arielipi

Konstantinos said:


> And this is my improve after your advice:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/FCGGbmQ.jpg
> 
> Before your advice:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/gSAF7Lk.jpg
> 
> So?


much better.


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## arbelyoni

ystab said:


> יש לך כתב יד מקסים!


Thanks!


Albert Schlef said:


> ...
> @arbelyoni's handwriting is of a native. "Real" handwritings, however, are typically less dandy and often slanted.
> ...


Some would say "less girlish" 


Konstantinos said:


> And this is my improve after your advice:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/FCGGbmQ.jpg
> 
> Before your advice:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/gSAF7Lk.jpg
> 
> So?


Yes, much better. One more tip: the little "loop" at the bottom of ל, ף and ץ is very small. In my handwriting (also Albert's and arielipi's) it's practically non-existent (look at the texts we wrote).
Also, it seems like you write some of the letters the wrong direction. Most of the letters are written downwards (except for ל,ף,ץ that start at the bottom and go up). Look online for Hebrew cursive lessons.


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## arielipi

Albert Schlef said:


> Your writing seems short on "shortcuts" writers often improvise. So it seems detailed. The last lines (2 or sometimes 3 lines) of each stanza seem, to me, different from the first lines. Maybe because you write more naturally there. These last lines seem more "healthy" (and I like them; the first lines I feel aversion to).


I'd still like an explanation of this "Your writing seems short on "shortcuts" writers often improvise."


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## Yuzer

That's right. I would just add that there are some words like כל and של which are written as ligatures commonly.


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## airelibre

Yuzer said:


> That's right. I would just add that there are some words like כל and של which are written as ligatures commonly.


Could you (or anyone) upload an example of these?


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## arielipi

airelibre said:


> Could you (or anyone) upload an example of these?


I think he refers to letters being true cursive (as in english cursive).


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## airelibre

arielipi said:


> I think he refers to letters being true cursive (as in english cursive).


I'm not sure what you mean by that. He said there are some ligatures, ie. word forms that cannot be deduced from just knowing the forms of the letters.


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## Drink

airelibre said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by that. He said there are some ligatures, ie. word forms that cannot be deduced from just knowing the forms of the letters.



That's not what a ligature is. A ligature is two letters that are written differently (even if only slightly) when together, and usually implies that they are connected.


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## airelibre

Drink said:


> That's not what a ligature is. A ligature is two letters that are written differently (even if only slightly) when together, and usually implies that they are connected.


I know, perhaps my description was poorly written


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## Drink

airelibre said:


> I know, perhaps my description was poorly written



There is an example in the last word of the first line of Albert Schlef's handwriting sample from earlier in this thread (in the word "כלה").


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## arbelyoni

airelibre said:


> Could you (or anyone) upload an example of these?


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## airelibre

I see, thank you.

Arbelyoni: there is also one on הש in השריפות. Was that intentional or did it come naturally?


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## arielipi

Well yes, those are the true cursive letters in hebrew, its not ligatures, simply comfortable letters to connect with any letter, i also write like this, the letters i connect are ש ע ל כ ג ה מ פ ס ת ט א


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## tapuz

I love Hebrew handwriting, nice examples in this thread indeed.

There's actually an interesting article/blog about cursive Hebrew written by a calligrapher:
http://www.oketz.com/cursive/

Anyway, here's my style, feedback is appreciated:


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## arbelyoni

airelibre said:


> I see, thank you.
> 
> Arbelyoni: there is also one on הש in השריפות. Was that intentional or did it come naturally?


I guess it comes naturally, like של and כל. To be honest, I never really paid much attention to it before...


tapuz said:


> I love Hebrew handwriting, nice examples in this thread indeed.
> 
> There's actually an interesting article/blog about cursive Hebrew written by a calligrapher:
> http://www.oketz.com/cursive/
> 
> Anyway, here's my style, feedback is appreciated:


Great link! Thanks.


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