# Slovak: Maybe you could help me



## mateo19

Ahoj!

Mám dnes otázku na túto vetu:  Chcem povedať po anglicky, "Maybe you could help me to find him".  Ako sa povie po slovensky?  Je to komplikované, keď je veľa slov.  Neviem, kde ich dať vo vete!  Ďakujem pekne za pomoc!

Je tu môj pokus:

Možno mohla by si mi pomôcť ho nájsť?


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## Azori

Možno by si mi mohol pomôcť ho nájsť.
Možno by si mi mohla pomôcť ho nájsť.
Možno by si mi mohol/mohla pomôcť hľadať ho.


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## winpoj

Plus, there is the more formal version with "Možno by ste mi mohli...", right Lior?


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## Azori

Yes, Winpoj, you're right.
Možno by ste mi mohli pomôcť ho nájsť.
Možno by ste mi mohli pomôcť hľadať ho.


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## mateo19

Thank you for the help, you guys! 

Say, is there I way I can remember what the order of the enclitics is?
I know that sa/si always go in the second position (ex. chcem *sa* každý deň učiť), and then the other enclitics follow it (ex. spýtaj sa *ma*), but it's hard to know where the other ones go, like "by".  Thank you for any further help!

By the way, I sent my message with the incorrect order, as I had written it in my original post.  My Slovak friend will still understand what I meant to say, right?


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## texpert

Course she will. 

Talking about enclitics, have you heard of the _Nesnese se se sestrou_?  

This is in Czech, of course. Wonder what the exact Slovak version would be (_Nesniese sa so sestrou?_)


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## winpoj

mateo19 said:


> I know that sa/si always go in the second position (ex. chcem *sa* každý deň učiť), and then the other enclitics follow it (ex. spýtaj sa *ma*),



Do you mean the second position relative to the verb or the second position in the sentence? In either case I don't think it's true:

Ja sa chcem každý deň učiť.

Budúci týždeň sa začnem učiť.


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## Azori

I think_ by is _always the second word in a sentence (or at least in those I can think of), followed by _som,_ _si,_ _sme,_ _ste._

mohol/mohla by som -I could
mohol/mohla by si
mohol/mohla/mohlo by

mohli by sme
mohli by ste
mohli by

mal/a by som - I should
Zajtra by sme mali prísť. -We should come tomorrow.

_By_ also means _would_, as in:
Pomohli by nám. -They would help us.
Nehovoril by o tom. -He wouldn't talk about it.


mateo19 said:


> Možno mohla by si mi pomôcť ho nájsť?


This would be a good sentence without "možno".


texpert said:


> This is in Czech, of course. Wonder what the exact Slovak version would be (_Nesniese sa so sestrou?_)


Neznesie sa so sestrou


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## texpert

I think this quest of finding a fixed position for enclitics is a trap. Example:

_Každý deň a o možno častejšie by som sa chcel učiť po slovensky..._

Let's say there only two possible sequences within a reach of a verb: 

_mohol by som_
_by som mohol_

_chcel by som sa_
_by som sa chcel_

am I right?


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## Azori

texpert said:


> I think this quest of finding a fixed position for enclitics is a trap. Example:
> 
> _Každý deň a o možno častejšie by som sa chcel učiť po slovensky..._


"_Každý deň a o možno častejšie" _describes one thing -time (the question here-when?), so although the word _by_ is not literally in the second place here, couldn't it be, based on meaning, considered like that?



texpert said:


> Let's say there only two possible sequences within a reach of a verb:
> 
> _mohol by som_
> _by som mohol_
> 
> _chcel by som sa_
> _by som sa chcel_
> 
> am I right?


True, but the word order can be changed anyway:
Ja by som im tie knihy mohol požičať.


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## texpert

1- It's all right with me though I'm not _literally_ a good calculator  
2- See, I had covered up with this _within a reach_, but then again, any rules regarding word orders in SK and CZ are candidates for destruction


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## werrr

The clitics occupy the second position within the clause. The first position is occupied by one single part of the clause. This needn’t be one single word. It could be expanded with some attributes, it could be an aggregate interlinked with conjunction or one single conjuction. It could be even subordinate clause. But always there must be at least one stressed word as the clitics could be linked only to such a word (this means, among others, that unstressed conjunctions like “a” are not taken into account).

The reflexives “si” and “sa” are exceptional and needn’t occupy the second position. They could be displaced for rhythmic purposes.

The order of clitics within the clitic cluster is rigid:

1) by
2) auxiliary verb (som, si, je…)
3) reflexives (si, sa) 
4) dative pronouns in clitic (=short) form (mi, ti…)
5) accusative pronouns in clitic form (ma, ťa…)

(The order is correct, but I’m not sure it is complete. I’m not able to write down off-hand all the Slovak clitics.)


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## texpert

This is all very fine. But unless mateo19 is a linguist by trade, I'd suggest that he reads the "second position" as "any conceivable place, though usually not the first" (just think of those colloquial phrases of teenagers started with _By som sa chcel opýtať.._) Even though the 1-2-3 bloc is a bullet-proof one, the word order in Slovak and Czech is generally so loose that one often feels "something doesn't fit here" though he can't tell what exactly. Still Mateo, let this inconvenience work for you. The friend of yours will tend to understand even if you shuffle words as a pack of cards


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## Mišo

texpert said:


> (_Nesniese sa so sestrou?_)



 Sometimes I should think so, Slovak is seriously less manageable for you than English.


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## texpert

Because of _nezniese? _Sure, this could be googled in a sec. But nothing seems to bring home so many answers as a tiny mistake


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## Azori

texpert said:


> Because of _nezniese? _Sure, this could be googled in a sec.


I've tried your "nezniese" and it has given me *2 results*. Have to admit that's a reliable source of information .


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## texpert

Zniese, on the other hand, offers approx. 6,700. While Czech "nesnese" brings as much as 50K. I'm afraid of the conclusions..


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## Azori

Zniese -99% of sites in Polish. Conclusions?


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## texpert

... think we find ourselves on a Slavic forum? That's the best I'm capable of. Administrators, waiting for a kind deletion, thank you


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## Azori

I didn't start the Google topic, texpert. Besides, I don't see a reason for deletion. I don't think I've written anything wrong.


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