# ذِكر



## Qua

What does dikr , is part of the Sufi tradition ? Thanks .

 ¿Qué es el Ziquer , es parte de la tradición sufí ? Gracias de antemano .

Saludos


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## MarcB

It is *ذکر* or dhikr the zikr and jikr pronunciations are by non-Arabic Muslims. More here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhikr


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## zjjtrans

Qua said:


> What does dikr , is part of the Sufi tradition ? Thanks .


Hello, 

No. Dhikr is not Sufi tradition. It's part of Muslim everyday life.


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## cute angel

Thikr (*th* like in *th*e) is one of our daily sayings when we pray like Coran which is our holy book


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## palomnik

zjjtrans said:


> Hello,
> 
> No. Dhikr is not Sufi tradition. It's part of Muslim everyday life.


 
zjjtrans is quite right. It's well to recall that the word means both "invocation" and "remembrance" in Arabic, which pretty well indicates the double purpose of Muslim prayer beads.

It is true, however, that a non-Muslim is more apt to first encounter the word in connection with Sufi usage, especially as Sufism has become something of a spiritual "fad" in the last few decades. And it is the name of a very common Sufi ritual, not infrequently with music, of which there are any number of recordings available.


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## suma

Hi,
Palomnik is quite right, the word *zikr, dhikr *has a wide range of uses in both the mainstream orthodoxy as well as the Sufi traditions.
Basically it can mean the remembrance of God, reflection upon the Divine; or it means the ritualistic chantings found in many Sufi circles.


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## Qua

palomnik said:


> zjjtrans is quite right. It's well to recall that the word means both "invocation" and "remembrance" in Arabic, which pretty well indicates the *double purpose of Muslim prayer beads*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goodnight .What do you say by that?You say that there was some similarity between the Rosary Catholic and Muslim tasbih, with both states in one or another religion . Can you please explain?
Click to expand...


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## palomnik

Qua said:


> What do you say by that?You say that there was some similarity between the Rosary Catholic and Muslim tasbih, with both states in one or another religion . Can you please explain?


 
A touchy area, and impinging on some widely held beliefs in different religions.  The practice of using prayer beads is not limited to Muslims and Catholics, of course.  Buddhists and Hindus use them too, as well as Orthodox Christians.

Some Muslims claim that their origin came from Muhammad, who used his fingers to count repeated prayers.  Orthodox Christians claim that the early hermits in the Egyptian desert used to count pebbles to keep track.  The Catholic practice no doubt dates back to one or the other of these practices, although it's hard to say which.  In any case, Catholics gradually turned it into a different kind of devotion, by introducing longer prayers (both Muslim and Orthodox use very short prayers), by setting the number of repetitions at 150 (remember, a full rosary in Catholic practice is fifteen, not five, decades) to match the number of psalms in the Bible, and by adding a certain discursive element into the practice.

Buddhists have been using prayer beads longer than either Muslims or Christians, so arguably the whole practice may have been borrowed from them, although there is nothing specific to back that up.


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## Muria

Hola a todos
No sé qué añado después de esas respuestas tan detalladas. 

Sólo quiero decir que Dhikr o Zikr es el recuerdo a Allah, tal como: "Subhan Allah" (Glorificado Sea Allah) "Al Hamdul-liah" (las alabanzas a Allah) "Allahu Acbar" "Allah es el más Grande", etc.

Como ha dicho Zjjtrans, es una parte de la vida diaria del musulmán, y como ha aclarado palomnica que el recuerdo a Allah no está sólo en el Islam sino en otras religiones también.

Los Azkar (pl. de Zikr) consisten también de súplcias (Du´aa: rezos u oraciones a Allah). 

Hay Azkar de la mañana que consisten de algunos recuerdos y algunas súplicas. Se citan después del alba o mejor dicho después de la oración del alba (Salat Al Fajr)
Hay Azkar de la noche, igual como los de la mañana con algunos cambios en las súplcias; sistituyendo la palabra "mañana" por "noche".
Azkar antes de enterar en el cuarto de baño y después de salir de ello.
Azkar antes de dormir y después de despertar.
Azkar antes de enterar la mezquita y después de salir de ella.
Y muchos más, sólo confirmo que los Azkar abarcan las súplicas (Du´aa) pero no al revés.

Espero que te sirva un poquito. 
Muria


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## Abu Bishr

Hi all

I would just like to make two points:

(1) the linguistic meaning of dhikr reflects its Islamic use. Linguistically, "dhikr" has two meanings (a) to utter or mention s.th. which is done by the *tongue*, and (b) to remember s.th. which is done by the *heart* / *mind*. Now, Islamically, dhikr takes these two forms, where you either mentioned the Name(s) of God on your tongue, or you remember Him in your heart, or both. Now, often the one helps with the other, so that saying the Name of God helps focusing and concentrating on it. Therefore, only saying His Name while being absent-minded doesn't count for much. This is why, linguistically, the word "dhikr" can be used with or without the "ism" (or name) as the object. By this I mean that in the Qur'an dhikr is used as follws: واذكر اسم ربك (*Mention the Name* of your Lord) and واذكر ربك كثيراً (and *remember your Lord* frequently). Finally, on this point of the two types of dhikr, the following verse mentions both types of dhikr: واذكر ربك في نفسك تضرعاً وخيفة ودون الجهر من القول (And remember your Lord within yourself humbly and with awe and in a voice not loud in the morning and the evening, and be not of the heedless ones. ).

(3) As for the rosary or beads or counting on the fingers, it is just a method for keeping track of the number of times s.th is mentioned. The moment numbers are fixed for a particular for a particular invocation or whatever, esp. large numbers, a method for keeping track was always going be devised, whether counting on fingers, pebbles, or beads.


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## palomnik

Abu Bishr said:


> (3) As for the rosary or beads or counting on the fingers, it is just a method for keeping track of the number of times s.th is mentioned. The moment numbers are fixed for a particular for a particular invocation or whatever, esp. large numbers, a method for keeping track was always going be devised, whether counting on fingers, pebbles, or beads.


 
Thanks, Abu Bishr, and I agree completely with your observations.

I'd just like to add that as somebody who has used prayer beads for a long time, I often think their most important function is to keep your mind from wandering, rather than just to make sure you've said the requisite prayer the correct number of times.

And as I am now most certainly quite far off topic, I will close!


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## Abu Bishr

Yes, I agree with you, Palomnik. At the end of the day, the numbers themselves just become a means to do it frequently and get focused on the Object of Remembrance. It is for this reason, that linguistcally, dhikr (and even the English "remembering") is the opposite of nisyaan (forgetfulness or heedlessness). The English "mentioning on the tongue" does not seem to convey the _meanings_ conveyed by dhikr bil-lisaan (i.e. dhikr with the tongue) with the latter implying remembrance because of the same stem, whereas the English "mentioning" does not, unless there exists another word in English that conveys both meanings.


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## Qua

Buenas noches . Desde  un principio debí daros el contexto  ( lo siento ) , ahí va :

 Contexto > El dikr , mantras o nombres de Dios  son unos ejercicios sufís repetidos con una cadencia ( el dikr suena  Ziquer ). 

¿ Solo quería preguntar en qué consiste el dikr  y para que se usa ?Gracias de antemano .

 * Todo lo anterior  esta explicado en un texto dónde se habla de   dos canciones  sufís llamadas La hora de la siesta y Envío un saludo  ( en la explicación no especifíca en qué canción  se menciona este sonido ) . 

Saludos


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## Qua

Good evening. From the outset  give you the context (sorry), here it goes: 

Context> dikr, mantras or names of God are exercises sufís repeated with a cadence (the dikr sounds Ziquer). 

Can I just wanted to ask what does the dikr consist in and to be used? Thanks in advance. 

* All of this was explained in a text where there is talk of two songs sufís called Time for siesta and I salute you (in explaining not specified what song mentions this sound).


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## palomnik

Qua said:


> Buenas noches . Desde un principio debí daros el contexto ( lo siento ) , ahí va :
> 
> Contexto > El dikr , mantras o nombres de Dios son unos ejercicios sufís repetidos con una cadencia ( el dikr suena Ziquer ).
> 
> ¿ Solo quería preguntar en qué consiste el dikr y para que se usa ?Gracias de antemano .
> 
> * Todo lo anterior esta explicado en un texto dónde se habla de dos canciones sufís llamadas La hora de la siesta y Envío un saludo ( en la explicación no especifíca en qué canción se menciona este sonido ) .
> 
> Saludos


 
Qua, no soy musulmán, pero you creo que Muria nos haya dado encima una descripción detallada de los tipos más comunes de _dhikr_.

La forma más extensa de _dhikr_ es la primera que Muria indique, o sea, a repetición treinta y tres veces cada uno de _subhanallah_, _ilhamdu lillah_, y _allahu akbar_.  Es, en efecto, una devoción supernumeraria.


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## xebonyx

I've often heard "*dh*" more commonly pronounced like "*z*" from Egyptian and Sudanese people.


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## palomnik

xebonyx said:


> I've often heard "*dh*" more commonly pronounced like "*z*" from Egyptian and Sudanese people.


 
Several colloquial dialects of Arabic have lost the _dh _sound, most notably Egyptian, although it is not the only one. 

Of course, the term _dhikr _is current in pretty much all Muslim countries, most of which don't have the sound either, so it comes out _zikr _or _zekr _in languages like Farsi, Urdu, Turkish, Indonesian, etc.


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## cherine

xebonyx said:


> I've often heard "*dh*" more commonly pronounced like "*z*" from Egyptian and Sudanese people.


True.
We say zekr.


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