# 行きつ戻りつ



## lammn

Does the つ after 連用形 of verb means ～たり？
Is there any difference between ~つ and ～たり？

Example sentence of showing the use of ~つ I am asking is as follows:

ジルベルトのかれた官能的な歌声を聴くと、20歳のころ、行きつ戻りつ、もんもんと過ごしていた日々がわたしの中で妙に重なり合って、よみがえってくる。

Thanks in advance!


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## Noamoxkaltontli

Yes, ~つ~つ is equivalent to ~たり~たり　しながら.

The first and the second verb are opposites and it is common for the second verb to be the passive of the first one.

Straight from my grammar book, so I am confident in this answer.


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## Ocham

To the post #2
"the second verb to be the passive of the first one" does not apply to this case.
It applies to さしつさされつ, where さされる is the passive of さす. So you can say the
second verb is the opposite of the first one in any case.


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## Noamoxkaltontli

> "the second verb to be the passive of the first one" does not apply to this case.



Hello Ocham,

Yes, thank you. I am aware of that, I just wanted to give further information about the usage of ~つ~つ.


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## lammn

Thanks to both of you! 

So, what is the meaning of さしつさされつ?
I can't tell the meaning without any kanji provided...


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## Ocham

さしつさされつ

When two people (a man and a woman in this case) are drinking _sake_, 
usually a woman fills his cup first, and a man drinks it. Then the man 
fills her cup and she drinks it. They repeat this. I think this custom is 
peculiar to Japanese. さす in this case means "pour _sake_ into a cup."
We don't usually use _kanji_ for this usage.

Anyway, ~つ~つ is an old construction. I can think of only a few
examples. The other is もちつもたれつ, which means "to help and to be
helped."


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## Hiro Sasaki

lammn said:


> Thanks to both of you!
> 
> So, what is the meaning of さしつさされつ?
> I can't tell the meaning without any kanji provided...


 
Ochan already explained.

http://www.sanabo.com/kotowaza/arc/2001/12/post_869.html

水をさす　＝　"pour water " figuratively. 

Usually, we say 水を注（そそ）ぐ、　

Hiro　Sasaki


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## lammn

To Ocham,

I learnt more Japanese culture today. Thank you! 

To Hiro Sasaki,

Thanks for the link! The たとえ of 水をさす is real fun!


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## Flaminius

Ocham said:


> さしつさされつ
> 
> When two people (a man and a woman in this case) are drinking _sake_,
> usually a woman fills his cup first, and a man drinks it. Then the man
> fills her cup and she drinks it.


I am not sure if I understand what you meant by "this case" but mutual drink-serving is not limited to ones between couples.  It's a _comme il faut_ drinking style in anyone's company.


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## Ocham

Yes, you are right. Literally and logically it is not limited to mutual drink-serving 
between couples. But practically we are more likely to image a couple drinking 
_s__ake_. Here is a quote from a dictionary of Japanese idiomatic expressions:

*差しつ差されつ*（さしつさされつ）　相手の杯（さかずき）に酒を差したり、逆に差してもらったりすること。
盛んに杯を取り交わすこと。多く、男女が睦（むつ）まじく杯をやり取りする場合に言う。


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## Hiro Sasaki

I ‘ve read several examples of “差しつ差されつ”. Some dicccionaries 
do not refer only to the pouring of sake in turns between two persons of 
different sexs. It is actually used very often referring to the exchanges
of cups (sake) between close friends and family members. . 

But, many people drink beer  “差しつ差されつ”. In the case of wines
And whisky, 差しつ差されつ” is very rare.  The sake was considered 
to have some magical power and whisly and beer do no have it.
It had a religious meaning. Even now, many sake manufacturers 
offer barrels of sake to the Shinto shrines. The gods can not drink
tons of sake and neither Shinto priests. It is used some ceremonies.
三三九度　has a religious meaning.

http://syoindo.noblog.net/blog/r/10284620.html


銭形平次と恋女房 did “差しつ差されつ” I am old, but the use of差しつ差されつ
may depends on the age of a person who will say it.

Some people would say that the classical use is correct and the use
has corrupted. 


http://oshiete.filesend.to/qa4407771.html

http://okwave.jp/qa4407771.html

In some regions, people wash his own cup and pour sake into 
the same cup for other persons.

Hiro Sasaki


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## Hiro Sasaki

When you exchange sake between the persons of the same sex, you must pour sakefirst to elder persons or bosses, or  or your guests whom you invited. When your bosses pour sake in return, you must say 
“
 
 
Hiro Sasaki


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