# brega/ baranga/ cafona



## aussiecamdenman

HI! i cant' fnd this at all, from the context (shampoo ad) i gather it mightn mean "unfashionable", "phoney", does it work? thank u!


----------



## Vanda

Yes, it is a slang: tacky, cheesy and the like.


----------



## ayupshiplad

Uma outra pergunta...!

Como se diz 'chav' em portugus? Hà alguém que sabe? Acho que ouvi 'chunga', tenho a certeza?

(A chav is someone that wears tracksuits, (fake)burberry, binge drinks...the scum of society!)

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Lucio Flávio

Nobody uses this expression, but you can use: maltrapilho.


----------



## ayupshiplad

Is maltrapilho a 'brazilianism' though? Because a portuguese person told me chunga and I try very hard not to sound brazillian in portugal!


----------



## MOC

In Portugal:

Lisbon: "mitra", "chunga"

Porto and up north: "guna"


being "chunga" up north means just "being lame".


"maltrapilho" is also a portuguese word, but it's not the same as this.


----------



## Vanda

Ayupshiplad, chav  is our brega, baranga, perua, cafona. 
Read this thread about perua.


----------



## MOC

Vanda said:


> Ayupshiplad, chav  is our brega, baranga, perua, cafona.
> Read this thread about perua.



It's not the same Vanda. Honestly.


----------



## Vanda

According to a looooong discussion we had at the English Only forum that I myself began, it is.


----------



## ayupshiplad

Ah too many words! I'll see the other thread and see if it makes sense. We have many words for chav in English, as you probably know, but I thought chav would be the most recognisable.


----------



## MOC

Vanda said:


> According to a looooong discussion we had at the English Only forum that I myself began, it is.



Since I haven't seen that discussion I can't teel what went on there, but from usage and listening to other people using it, a chav is what in Portugal we call "chunga", "mitra", "guna"..

São aqueles que andam de fato-treino largueirão, boné pró lado, brinco, aneis, colares, que sem precisar minimamente andam na rua com os amigos a chatear as pessoas e a pedir um euro (provavelmente não faz muito sentido andar a pedir 1 euro no Brasil  ).


----------



## Vanda

Exatamente o que eu disse acima: brega, baranga, cafona, etc, - sem  o detalhe do 1 euro!


----------



## MOC

Ah, eu pensava que brega quisesse só dizer assim fora de moda e fosse uma expressão válida para tudo. Foi erro meu então.


----------



## Odinh

^ Acho que a Vanda se confundiu. Não sei se existe um termo específico para designar esses tipos no Brasil. Pensei em 'malaco', que é uma gíria para marginal de rua, mas pode também referir-se a alguém que se vista como um. Ou então 'mano', que é como eles se chamam entre si.


----------



## Outsider

Primeiro, há muitas discussões aqui no fórum sobre o termo _chav_. Talvez fosse boa ideia começar por lê-las. Eu confesso que nunca me dei ao trabalho de aprender exactamente o que significa esta palavra, mas, tal como o MOC, a minha impressão é que não corresponde bem à ideia de "perua". Um _chav_ é mais uma classe de adolescentes (ou jovens), ao passo que uma perua pode ter qualquer idade, mas até se usa muito para mulheres mais velhas. Uma das ideias de "perua", se não estou enganado, é querer parecer mais jovem do que se é na realidade. Além disso, _chav_ dá para os dois sexos.

Exemplos de _chavs_ (creio): as personagens principais da série inglesa _Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps_. Os jovens são _chavs_; a mãe da Donna é o que eu chamaria uma perua.

Confirmem ou corrijam-me.


----------



## Vanda

Não, eu não me confundi. Além de várias discussões no English Only sobre o assunto, já discuti infinitamente com vários colegas moderadores (English natives) sobre o termo nosso e eles sobre o chav deles e, para mim, mesmo que todo mundo diga que não, chav é o nosso brega e afins. Ahem, não estou querendo convencer a ninguém a aceitar do meu jeito ; o que eu quero dizer é que eu estou amplamente convencida com as explicações que me deram de que é brega, etc. Não me entendam mal, por favor, detesto quando alguém chega aqui querendo ser o dono da verdade e não serei eu quem irá fazer isso. Só estou afirmando que eu não tenho dúvida alguma sobre como aplicar o termo.


----------



## Alchemy

Anyone care to define: brega, baranga, cafona, chunga and guna?


----------



## Outsider

We'd be happy with a definition of _chav._..


----------



## MOC

The last two are used in different regions in Portugal. They mean "chav". They mean this for example. It's applied to a specific group of people although there might be differences concerning what they wear depending on where they live obviously, but the style is always about the same, as are their ways of "acting".
As I said in my first post in this topic, "guna" is used in the north, while "mitra" and "chunga" are usually used in the "south", although I can't tell if it's still the same word in Algarve for instance since I don't go there often.

The first three are words used in Brazil.


Just found out, wikipedia has a blatant stereotyped version of one. 

Mais alguns.


----------



## Vanda

brega 
baranga
chav


----------



## Alchemy

None of the Portuguese words suggested appear to be a reasonable translation.

As far as I'm aware, the word 'chav' isn't generally used on the sole basis of one's attire. Attitudes/beliefs are a huge part of the dare I say subculture. It's based on class above all.


----------



## Outsider

The plainest truth is that I don't think such a class exists around here. Our societies are structured in a different way. The best we can do is find some notion that is as close as possible...


----------



## Vanda

That is exactly what I said about our perua concept. No foreigner grasp it, it is a matter of our culture. It is the same with chav, either we have to use the word chav, that only 0,1% will understand around here or we go with brega, baranga that give us a concept we can refer to.


----------



## MOC

Outsider said:


> The plainest truth is that I don't think such a class exists around here. Our societies are structured in a different way. The best we can do is find some notion that is as close as possible...



Yes they do. Mostly in the big cities (Lisboa e Porto) and the areas surrounding them like for instance the "Linha de Sintra" and Vila Nova de Gaia for instance. They also appear in smaller cities but obviously not so much there, since it's a culture that relates a lot more to an Urban lifestyle.
It's a lot to do with their attitude and not necessarily how they wear but I described the most notorious attires since they're easier to identify.

They act and dress just like the ones here. They steal, ask for money, and generally annoy people by throwing insults just because they feel like it. Plus when I had british friends over, and we went past a group of them, they even said something like: "There's chavs everywhere, it seems".
I saw some of them even when I was in Finland, although few, but that is only natural, since I wasn't really going through places where they usually hang out at.

There's even some british site built on the sole purpose of making fun of them. I don't remember its name now, though. I think it was something like "chavs are scum" or something.

By the way, I found some text, written in Brazilian Portuguese, which I've lost already too (  ) in which they do an explanation on it too, and they say they refer to themselves as "manos" like Odinh said before. So I guess that can be it, although I couldn't know for sure since I haven't been to Brazil yet.


----------



## Outsider

But, for example, marks like always wearing tracksuits outdoors are very culture-dependent. That's something that simply isn't very common in Portugal.

And the heavy jewelry in the pictures you linked to is also far from common in Portugal, though I suppose you can see it in some self-styled rappers. Even in those cases, it seems to be more a matter of musical culture than anything else, around here.


----------



## Alentugano

MOC said:


> Mostly in the big cities (Lisboa e Porto) and the areas surrounding them like for instance the "Linha de Sintra" and Vila Nova de Gaia for instance. They also appear in smaller cities but obviously not so much there, since it's a culture that relates a lot more to an Urban lifestyle.
> It's a lot to do with their attitude and not necessarily how they wear but I described the most notorious attires since they're easier to identify.
> 
> They act and dress just like the ones here. They steal, ask for money, and generally annoy people by throwing insults just because they feel like it. Plus when I had british friends over, and we went past a group of them, they even said something like: "There's chavs everywhere, it seems".
> I saw some of them even when I was in Finland, although few, but that is only natural, since I wasn't really going through places where they usually hang out at.



Esses personagens também existem fora das grandes cidades (em menor número, claro). Aqui no Alentejo são conhecidos por _"dreads". _A avaliar pela descrição física que fizeram deles ao longo deste tópico, são jovens muito ligados a uma certa cultura urbana de subúrbio (que tem como principais influências fenómenos como o _hip hop_, _car_ _tuning_, etc).


----------



## ayupshiplad

Chav has nothing to do with class!

Yes, a lot of chavs are 'working class' but i am working/middle class and I certainly am not a chav!

You get rich chavs too, like Daniella Westbrook for example. 

Just found out im not allowed to post links to other sites but visit chavscum.com if you want to see pictures and read "what they say", if you can understand it! It can be a challenge even for me...


----------



## Vanda

In that link I 've posted above about chav there is a long discussion on chav in the EO forum with lots of links to chavs.


----------



## Alchemy

ayupshiplad said:


> Chav has nothing to do with class!
> 
> Yes, a lot of chavs are 'working class' but i am working/middle class and I certainly am not a chav!
> 
> You get rich chavs too, like Daniella Westbrook for example.
> 
> Just found out im not allowed to post links to other sites but visit chavscum.com if you want to see pictures and read "what they say", if you can understand it! It can be a challenge even for me...


 
Of course the chav phenomenon is a class thing. The word was coined by the elite to describe the anti-social working class. That isn't to say that every member of the working class is a 'chav'. Delinquency (fundamental aspect of a 'chav') is fairly scarce amongst the upper class.

Don't even bother mentioning Z list celebrities like Westbrook. She is from a working class background and achieved her riches through having a 'successful' career.


----------



## avok

ayupshiplad said:


> Chav has nothing to do with class!
> 
> Yes, a lot of chavs are 'working class' but i am working/middle class and I certainly am not a chav!
> 
> You get rich chavs too, like Daniella Westbrook for example.
> 
> Just found out im not allowed to post links to other sites but visit chavscum.com if you want to see pictures and read "what they say", if you can understand it! It can be a challenge even for me...


 
hi, I have just visited the site you cited, and this "chav" thing is so British I think it is a bit like the hip-hop mania in America...


----------



## MOC

Outsider said:


> But, for example, marks like always wearing tracksuits outdoors are very culture-dependent. That's something that simply isn't very common in Portugal.



Sure, as I said before, there are differences concerning the way they wear from one place to another. For example around here, the more common look is for them to wear these shoes, or similar, white pants tucked into white socks, although tracksuits at least around here are quite common, plus the cap and earrings. Again, not everyone of them dresses the same. This is just to get the idea. The attire may change (although I still think not much) but the attitude towards life of "their" chavs and "ours" is the same.

About the music culture issue, that's also true, since although nowadays there's no need to be a connection to it, the style came from those US rappers to which then each country with its different culture added its own special "features".

About the heavy jewelry, it isn't really there on every one of them. As I said before, those were just the most stereotypical pictures I could find. 
I don't think that's too common here, either.


Já agora, Outsider, um aparte. Voltei atrás para ver as imagens que tinha posto. Veja a última que pus. Esses não têm as tais jóias abundantes, mas mantém o restante.


----------



## MOC

Alentugano said:


> Esses personagens também existem fora das grandes cidades (em menor número, claro). Aqui no Alentejo são conhecidos por _"dreads". _A avaliar pela descrição física que fizeram deles ao longo deste tópico, são jovens muito ligados a uma certa cultura urbana de subúrbio (que tem como principais influências fenómenos como o _hip hop_, _car_ _tuning_, etc).



Chamarem-lhes "dreads" é curioso. Dreads era o que aqui chamavam ao pessoal que usava rastas, e nem era pejorativo. Vinha simplesmente de "dreadlocks", ou seja rastas, que também se podem chamar "dreads".


----------



## ayupshiplad

Alchemy said:


> Of course the chav phenomenon is a class thing. The word was coined by the elite to describe the anti-social working class. That isn't to say that every member of the working class is a 'chav'. Delinquency (fundamental aspect of a 'chav') is fairly scarce amongst the upper class.
> 
> Don't even bother mentioning Z list celebrities like Westbrook. She is from a working class background and achieved her riches through having a 'successful' career.


 
To be honest I think the etymylogical root of 'chav' is pretty confused. I'm positive that i've read an article about how it comes from a nunnery! And it was in a reputable newspaper...

But you're right delinquency is a key aspect of 'chav' but you can still be a chav without being a delinquent. There are also 'topman chavs' ie chavs that buy clothes from decent high street stores then make them look hideous and chavvy.


----------



## Alentugano

MOC said:


> o pessoal que usava rastas



Por cá esses são conhecidos por _rastas _ou _rastaman_.


----------



## Alchemy

ayupshiplad said:


> There are also 'topman chavs' ie chavs that buy clothes from decent high street stores then make them look hideous and chavvy.


 
That's news to me. It all seems extremely immature. I mean, for goodness' sake, a "topman chav". Britain's youth couldn't possibly get anymore superficial.


----------



## Macunaíma

_Chav _é um termo britânico, uma gíria britânica. Fora do Reino Unido é muito diifícil que alguém saiba bem o que quer dizer _chav_, porque gírias geralmente trazem uma infinidade de nuances e percepções sociais sutis embutidas, por isso elas só funcionam no contexto social onde surgiram.

Aqui vai uma excelente definição de_ chav_ dada pelo lingüista David Crystal, que escreve uma coluna no_ site_ da BBC sobre novas palavras e termos da língua inglesa chamado _Keep Your English Up-to-Date_. Leiam e ouçam. 

Um amigo meu de São Paulo chamaria um_ chav_ desses de maloqueiro. É uma gíria que eu aprendi com ele mas não funciona nem aqui em Minas, acho que só em São Paulo mesmo.

A dica que eu daria é usar _chav _mesmo. Se for em um texto, acrescente uma nota explicativa. _Chavs_ são _chavs_, não chungas, maloqueiros, etc.


----------



## ayupshiplad

Alchemy said:


> That's news to me. It all seems extremely immature. I mean, for goodness' sake, a "topman chav". Britain's youth couldn't possibly get anymore superficial.


 
Yes, well it is all rather immature but it is used to differentiate between the types of chavs. I mean, essentially chavs are deliquents but the 'traditional chav' varies from the 'topman chav' in attire. Moreover, the 'topman chav' doesn't see himself as a chav, whereas 'tradtional chavs' are proud of their chavviness! 

I would like to point out there is nothing wrong with Topman. It is just abused!


----------



## Odinh

MOC said:


> By the way, I found some text, written in Brazilian Portuguese, which I've lost already too (  ) in which they do an explanation on it too, and they say they refer to themselves as "manos" like Odinh said before. So I guess that can be it, although I couldn't know for sure since I haven't been to Brazil yet.


 
I just found a video of what a 'mano' sounds like: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rhr5RplxSA


----------



## Lanikai

Oi, pessoal. Apesar de "cafona" e "brega" terem o mesmo significado,
sabemos que brega é uma palavra mais atual no português falado no Brasil.
Alguém saberia me dar uma tradução em inglês igualmente
atual que se encaixasse? 

No texto que estou traduzindo, a pessoa fala:
"Antigamente, chamavam de cafona. Agora, chamam de brega."

Eu pensei em usar corny para "cafona", mas não achei nada
mais up-to-date para "brega".

Obrigada pela ajuda.
Lanikai

ps: pessoal, estou falando de música, tá? Brigada!


----------



## Joca

Olá

Você está falando de música brasileira? Então, nesse caso, penso que seria melhor traduzir para o inglês apenas a idéia do que é cafona ou brega e, na sua tradução, manter os dois termos em português mesmo.


----------



## Lanikai

Oi, Joca.

Muito obrigada pela ajuda.

Pois é, eu fiquei tentada a não traduzir. Mas é a legenda de um filme.
Eu posso dar um jeitinho de introduzir em uma linha
o texto em inglês _e_ em português, mas precisaria
de um equivalente para "brega" de qq modo.
O cantor reclama de ser chamado de brega e tal.
Eu acho que, se eu deixar só em português,
quem só fala inglês não vai  acompanhar o trecho direito.
E são várias falas. 

Obrigada pelo retorno!


----------



## SanzdeAcedo

_Corny_ para _cafona_.
_Tacky_ para _brega_.


----------



## Bastoune

SanzdeAcedo said:


> _Corny_ para _cafona_.
> _Tacky_ para _brega_.


 
Eu concordo.

Mas tem tambem a palavra "*cheesy*" que quer dizer a mesma coisa que "corny."


----------



## Lanikai

Thank you all for your help.  Maybe I'll use tacky. 
Someone in the English Only Forum suggested wack.
I'll think about it. Thanks!


----------



## Dammivolume

Hello!

I went to a Brazilian party and I got the jist of what Brega means.  But what does this mean in its entirety?

Nois e' brega mais e' joia?

"we are tacky, but it's excellent"  ??


----------



## Outsider

"We is tacky, but we is alright."


----------



## Dammivolume

when do you say Nois instead of Nos??


----------



## uchi.m

Dammivolume said:


> when do you say Nois instead of Nos??


That is likely to be a regional accent (dialect, perhaps? I don't know the correct term), and it is specially found in what is called _caipira_ accent.


----------



## Vanda

Guys, don't forget to look for threads existing on the same topic. I am merging this one with a looooooong discussion on the expression.


----------

