# mater misericordiæ



## tsoapm

Hello,

Probably a simple query for those in the know, but I'm not…

Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiæ,
vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.

I wanted a fairly literal translation of the Salve Regina to put on my blog, and it wasn't hard to find one, but the translation of “mater misericordiae” leaves me a little perplexed. This is traditionally rendered as “Mother of Mercy”, but the translation I found has “mother merciful” (but I can swap the words round fine on my own…) – does this mean that the traditional rendering is off?

Many thanks,
Mark


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## Agró

“Mother of Mercy” is the literal translation: _Mater_, nominative; _misericordiæ_, genitive.
“Mother merciful” would correspond to Latin _Mater misericordis_. _Mater_, nominative noun; _misericordis_, nominative feminine singular adjective.


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## tsoapm

Great! Maybe I’ll get someone to take a peek at the whole translation before I put it up then.

Thank you very much.


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## XiaoRoel

*Misericordiae* es un _substantivo transcategorizado en adjetivo_ por el _morfema_ *-i* (_-a-*e* = -a-*i*_). Por tanto su significado es '*madre misericordiosa*'. Si traduces *madre de misericordia* conservas la construcción latina (_de = -i_) en su forma romance_: __de misericordia_ es, sintácticamente, un complemento del nombre (CN), un _substantivo transcategorizado en *adjetivo (sintagmático*) por el morfema-preposición_ *de; la traducción por madre misericordiosa, en que** misericordiosa *es e*l *_núcleo de un sintagma adjetivo_(con sólo el núcleo) que concuerda con un núcleo substantivo de un _sintagma nominal_ del que es _adyacente_, es lo que llamo un *adjetivo léxico* (los que _pertenecen a la categoría nominal de palabras_ llamada *adjetivo*).
Lo natural es traducir _Madre de misericordia, vida, dulzura, esperanza nuestra_ que en italiano sería _Madre de misericordia, vita, dolcezza, la nostra speranza._
Este hermoso poema mariano es obra de un obispo (interino) de Compostela, Pedro Mezonzo, gallego como yo y que ya hablaba en romance, que la compuso tras la razzia de Almanzor sobre Compostela y su _hinterland_ que quedó asolado, de ahí esa potente realidad triste, _*in hac lacrymarum valle*_, _en este valle de lágrimas_ (_in questo val di lacrime_).
Hermosa obra, señera en la literatura latina medieval, con un _ritmo ya no latino, sino romance_ (gallego), y todavía cantada y rezada en muchísimas lenguas y en su original latino. Espléndida poesía.


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## tsoapm

Ah. I don’t speak Spanish, but I do speak Italian so I think I understood some of that; I believe you said that the meaning is “merciful mother” but translated as “mother of mercy” to correspond to the Latin structure. Perhaps that’s an acceptable ambiguity in Spanish, but in English I think it changes, or at least obscures, the meaning.


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## Agró

_Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
our life, our sweetness and our hope._

(from Wiki)

My more literal version would go like this:

_Hail, Queen, Merciful Mother
Our life, our Sweetness and our Hope, Hail.
_
_Regina _has no adjective "holy".

In Spanish "madre misericordiosa" (the usual translation) and "madre de misericordia" are both acceptable and pretty much mean the same: _merciful mother_ and _mother_ (fountain/source/origin) _of mercy_.


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## tsoapm

Thanks again for the clarification.


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## In Vino Veritas

Sometimes you can transform the genitive into an adjective...The Wizard of Oz = The Ozian (???) Wizard ...maybe it is not the best example .This is why  you find 2 translations for the same sentence.


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## tsoapm

Yes, but not, I think, in this case. “Mother of mercy” in English (contemporary English at least) is practically impossible to read in any way other than “she who generates/gives birth to mercy”; with “merciful Mother” however, mercy is a quality of the Mother, but it doesn’t imply that she is a/the source of mercy.

Reminds me of the Protestant controversy over the translation of “full of grace”, but that’s another story, obviously.


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## In Vino Veritas

Mark Dobson said:


> “Mother of mercy” in English (contemporary English at least) is practically impossible to read in any way other than “she who generates/gives birth to mercy”; with “merciful Mother” however, mercy is a quality of the Mother, but it doesn’t imply that she is a/the source of mercy.


Capito...Then it is “Mother of mercy” if we underline the concept =>“she who generates/gives birth to mercy”.


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## tsoapm

Yes; that’s why I was trying to establish whether or not the Latin “Mater misericordiæ” communicates that concept or not.


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