# FR: he would not leave us



## sensa

How do I translate "would not" for this sentence since there is no verb to conjugate into the conditonnel?

Il (would not) nous quitter.

I NEED a verb to conjugate!


----------



## Outsider

If you are making a prediction in the past, it's:

Il ne nous quitterait pas.​If you are describing a past situation, it's:

Il ne nous quittait pas.​


----------



## tilt

I don't understand why you refer to past, Outsider.
_Il ne nous quitterait pas_ is the correct translation of _he would not leave us_, but it's present conditional!


----------



## Outsider

I was referring to actual time, not to the grammatical names of the tenses.


----------



## lingogal

I think the confusion is coming from the two possible meanings for "would" + verb in English.

When I was little he would leave us to go get something to eat.

Quand j'étais petite, il nous quittait pour aller chercher à manger.

If we weren't good, he would leave us. 

Si nous n'étions pas sages, il nous quitterait.

I think that may be what Outsider meant.


----------



## Outsider

That's right. Thank you for clarifying it, Lingogal.


----------



## itka

> _When I was little he would leave us to go get something to eat.
> _
> _ Quand j'étais petite, il nous quittait pour aller chercher à manger._



Je ne comprends pas... y aurait-il un anglophone bilingue pour me confirmer que la phrase (2) traduit bien la phrase (1) ? 

Et si c'est bien exact, pourriez-vous me dire pourquoi on emploie "would" ?

Ne pourrait-on dire :
_When I was little he used to leave us to go get something to eat. _(usually, as in the french sentence)or
_When I was little he left us to go get something to eat. _(one time)


----------



## lingogal

_When I was little he used to leave us to go get something to eat. _(usually, as in the french sentence)or
_When I was little he left us to go get something to eat. _(one time) 

In the first sentence "used to leave" is the same as "would leave". This has the meaning of an action that is habitual or usual.

In the second sentence, "he left us" translates as a passé composé if it is only one time. "il nous a quittés" (pour la premìere et dernière fois). 

The real confusion lies with the "double" meaning of "would" for English speakers: would +verb can be habitual past, as Outsider pointed out, OR would+ verb can be conditional as the result of an if clause. 

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you even more!


----------



## Outsider

Would you agree that "left" also has a double meaning? 

I think it can be translated as _a quitté_, if it refers to an isolated event, or as _quittait_, if it refers to something that was recurrent. The latter interpretation seems to be the most appropriate, here.


----------



## tilt

lingogal said:


> I think the confusion is coming from the two possible meanings for "would" + verb in English.
> 
> When I was little he would leave us to go get something to eat.
> 
> Quand j'étais petite, il nous quittait pour aller chercher à manger.
> 
> If we weren't good, he would leave us.
> 
> Si nous n'étions pas sages, il nous quitterait.
> 
> I think that may be what Outsider meant.


Wow! I didn't know this double meaning!
For me, _would _was only conditional. Thanks for this useful clarification.


----------



## marget

tilt said:


> Wow! I didn't know this double meaning!
> For me, _would _was only conditional. Thanks for this useful clarification.


 

I think there's a third possible meaning of "would not leave us". In this usage, "would not" means that he was unwilling. Another way of saying it would be "He refused to leave us". In French, could that be "il n'a pas voulu nous quitter"?


----------



## itka

Thank you ! 
I didn't know these different meanings of "would leave us" or "would not leave us"... I only heard about conditional ! 

So : "_He would not leave us_" :

- il n'a pas voulu nous quitter (as marget said)
- il ne nous quittait pas (usual : never)
- il ne nous quitterait pas (conditional )

Everybody agree ? Have I got it ?


----------



## Maître Capello

marget said:


> I think there's a third possible meaning of "would not leave us". In this usage, "would not" means that he was unwilling. Another way of saying it would be "He refused to leave us". In French, could that be "il n'a pas voulu nous quitter"?


That's right. But I'd rather say _Il ne *voulait* pas nous quitter_ (imparfait) instead of _Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter_ (passé composé)… Because he was not willing to leave, *it took some time* before he left. Therefore I think the _imparfait_ is here better than the _passé composé_.


----------



## itka

Maître Capello said:


> That's right. But I'd rather say _Il ne *voulait* pas nous quitter_ (imparfait) instead of _Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter_ (passé composé)… Because he was not willing to leave, *it took some time* before he left. Therefore I think the _imparfait_ is here better than the _passé composé_.



Attends... Tu traduis : _He would not leave us_" par _"il ne voulait pas nous quitter"_, d'accord. 
Et alors comment traduire _"il n'a pas voulu nous quitter"_ ?


----------



## Maître Capello

itka said:


> Attends... Tu traduis : _He would not leave us_" par _"il ne voulait pas nous quitter"_, d'accord.
> Et alors comment traduire _"il n'a pas voulu nous quitter"_ ?


Simplement par _He didn't want to leave us_…


----------



## itka

Maître Capello said:


> Simplement par _He didn't want to leave us_…


 Ah oui, bien sûr ! Ce "would" me perturbe gravement !


----------



## trench feature

Maître Capello said:


> Simplement par _He didn't want to leave us_…


 
I thought that "Il ne voulait pas nous quitter" meant "He didn't want to leave us" (but he finally did) whereas "Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter" meant "He refused to leave us"... He so much wanted not to that he didn't leave us.  Maybe this is just another misleading example in a textbook.


----------



## Maître Capello

trench feature said:


> I thought that "Il ne voulait pas nous quitter" meant "He didn't want to leave us" (but he finally did) whereas "Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter" meant "He refused to leave us"... He so much wanted not to that he didn't leave us.  Maybe this is just another misleading example in a textbook.


In French the _imparfait_ conveys the idea that the action takes some time (somewhat like your past continuous) or that it is a habit. On the other hand the _passé composé_ and the _passé simple_ rather describe a point in time (more or less like your past tense).

Hence _Il ne voulait pas nous quitter_ conveys the idea that he struggled for some time to make up his mind (whether or not he eventually left) or that it annoyed us because he was not leaving.

_Il ne voulut pas nous quitter_ or _Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter_ rather expresses the mere fact that he didn't want to leave.


----------



## MerePond

Hi,

I've read the discussion above and I have two questions.

The context for my questions (below) is: *Le chat est resté toute la nuit dans notre chambre.*

1) Given the context, what is the distinction in meaning between a) and b):

a) Il (le chat) ne voulait pas nous quitter.
b) Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter.

I thought that the difference might be that with "voulait" the cat stayed in the room every night while with "a voulu" the cat only stayed in the room once, but the context doesn't seem to give any indication of whether or not the cat stayed in the room every night, or just one night.

2) What is the difference in meaning between these two:

c) Il (le chat) ne nous quittait pas. 
d) Il ne nous quittait jamais.

I know that "jamais" means "never", but in this context does the "jamais" only add emphasis, or does it change the meaning? I thought that both these sentences mean something like: Habitually, the cat would not leave the room.


----------



## jann

MerePond said:


> 1) Given the context, what is the distinction in meaning between a) and b):
> 
> a) Il (le chat) ne voulait pas nous quitter.
> b) Il n'a pas voulu nous quitter.
> 
> I thought that the difference might be that with "voulait" the cat stayed in the room every night while with "a voulu" the cat only stayed in the room once, but the context doesn't seem to give any indication of whether or not the cat stayed in the room every night, or just one night.


Hello MerePond, 

This first question has been discussed extensively in threads such as:
FR:  vouloir - imparfait vs passé composé 
FR: pouvoir, vouloir, savoir, penser - past tenses

I am confident that you'll find a lot of helpful discussion there.  In the interest of avoiding duplication with those threads, I hope people will focus on your second question here in this one...


----------

