# السيارة التي ستقلنا



## Grapez

What is the verb "ستقلنا'  


صاحب السيارة التي *ستقلنا* 450 دينارا لكل فرد، فى حين أن التعريفة في الوقت العادي 35 دينارا

I gather from the context, that it means "charged" but I am still unfamiliar with the verb, its root and form, etc.


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## AndyRoo

Hi,

It means "[the car which] will take us". The verb is أقلّ.

The first part of the sentence is missing, I think.


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## PlanC

*ستقلنا *   is synonym of *ستنقلنا* , then I've the feeling that a word is missing after it : طلب  ?!


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## Grapez

PlanC said:


> *ستقلنا *   is synonym of *ستنقلنا* , then I've the feeling that a word is missing after it : طلب  ?!




Exactly, the words before were:
وطلب منا هو وصاحب السيارة التي ستقلنا 450 دينارا لكل فرد

What is the third person singular of this verb than? ستقل    ؟ 

Isn't this a strange form ?


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## PlanC

AndyRoo said:


> Hi,
> It means "[the car which] will take us". The verb is أقلّ.
> The first part of the sentence is missing, I think.


This is the context from which I quote: 
وطلب منا هو وصاحب السيارة التي *ستقلنا* 450 دينارا لكل فرد، فى حين أن  التعريفة في الوقت العادي 35 دينارا، واستغرقت الرحلة 4 أيام في الصحراء،  حتى وصلنا إلى بنغازي"
And the word ستقلنا is 'extirpated' from the verb أقــال but it's more oriented to designate _"to transfert"_ rather than "_to dismis_s": we could say : و هو الآن يشغل منصب كــذا بعد أن أقـــيل من منصبه السابق
Update:
Sorry I didn't see your input when I was posting my answer.
ستقل as single form is an intransitive verb and it could be very confusing, unless you attach it with the pronoun referring to the subject _i.e_: بعد كثير من الانتظار اتت الحافلة التي ستقلني الى محطة


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## cherine

The verb is أَقَلَّ not أقال , and the subject is singular feminine referring to the car السيارة التي سَتُقِلُّنا.


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## PlanC

cherine said:


> The verb is أَقَلَّ not أقال , ...


I said '*extirpated*' (pulled off) from the verb أقــال because to my knowledge أَقَلَّ as _to lower/decrease_ can't fit here, and neither any of its connotations does. Moreover we rarely use this form for the intended meaning. And this is the exact etymology of the word.


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## AndyRoo

PlanC said:


> I said '*extirpated*' (pulled off) from the verb أقــال because to my knowledge أَقَلَّ as _to lower/decrease_ can't fit here, and neither any of its connotations does. Moreover we rarely use this form for the intended meaning. And this is the exact etymology of the word.



It can't be أقال as there is no ي in ستقلنا. The verb is أقلّ meaning to carry, which is the first definition in the link you gave.


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## PlanC

AndyRoo said:


> It can't be أقال as there is no ي in ستقلنا. The verb is أقلّ meaning to carry, which is the first definition in the link you gave.


Sorry the verb أقلّ meaning to carry doesn't really exist in arabic, the verb I linked to is أقلّت  a very special context, and if you've only paid a little intention, the page clearly indicates that أقلّت was extracted from قــلّة : jar : _The winds __fills clouds like if they were jars_, thus the verb we are talking about was adapted from what I pointed to.


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## AndyRoo

PlanC said:


> Sorry the verb أقلّ meaning to carry doesn't really exist in arabic, the verb I linked to is أقلّت in a very special context, in if you've only paid a little intention, the page clearly indicates that أقلّت was extracted from قــلّة : jar : _The winds __fills clouds like if they were jars_, thus the verb we are talking about was adapted from what I pointed to.



Well the page you linked to clearly says أقلت = حملت , so I don't know why you say it doesn't exist. Hans Wehr also gives the meaning "to carry" for this verb. Plus I have seen it many times in context with this meaning.

And you haven't explained why it isn't ستقيلنا if you are correct with the verb being أقال.


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## PlanC

Could this page be able to satisfy your curiosity (which I admire).


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## AndyRoo

PlanC said:


> Could this page be able to satisfy your curiosity (which I admire).



No it doesn't. I'd prefer if you'd answer my other questions.


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## PlanC

AndyRoo said:


> No it doesn't. I'd prefer if you'd answer my other questions.


which ones please? also please remark I edited this post Today at 3:31 PM.  				 				 			before the moment you quoted it (Today, 3:38 PM), please feel free to ask:


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## AndyRoo

PlanC said:


> which ones please? also please remark I edited this post Today at 3:31 PM.                                                before the moment you quoted it (Today, 3:38 PM), please feel free to ask:



My questions in post #10


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## PlanC

AndyRoo said:


> Well the page you linked to clearly says أقلت = حملت , so I don't know why you say it doesn't exist.


Well I said The verb أقلّ meaning to carry doesn't really exist in arabic,


> Hans Wehr also gives the meaning "to carry" for this verb. Plus I have seen it many times in context with this meaning.


...


AndyRoo said:


> And you haven't explained why it isn't ستقيلنا if you are correct with the verb being أقال.


I said '*extirpated*' which is defferent from *Extracted*, then in my post (#7) I resumed


> And this is *the exact etymology* of the word.


?! 
Where is the problem please!


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## AndyRoo

OK because PlanC says it doesn't exist, we should ignore all the dictionaries.

And we'll just forget it says ستقلنا rather than ستقيلنا.

Then there is no problem.


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## PlanC

I think you are trying to interpret my posts according to what please you, regardless the fact that you're referring to me using the 3rd person of singular when you are talking to me. Honestly I never, ever, felt the need to appeal an imaginary audience to convince a person when I'm arguing with him. Anyway From this point on, our discussion risks to become out of topic.
My salutations!
PlanC


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## AndyRoo

I have tried to understand your posts but you have failed to respond to my questions, so I agree this debate is going nowhere and will end it here. Apologies for using third person, but I was getting frustrated.


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## ajamiyya عجمية

I may be out of my depth here, but, when first I saw this query I thought we were looking at the verb " نقل "  "to transport/move"  in conjunction with the future-marker  
س =  سوف  (from which, as an aside, I mention that the word procrastination " التسويف ") is derived?  Does not Occam's Razor (موس أوكام) suggest that we can make sense of what we are looking at by considering that السيارة هي وسيلة من وسائل النقل?


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## AndyRoo

mutalima.majhoola said:


> I may be out of my depth here, but, when first I saw this query I thought we were looking at the verb " نقل "  "to transport/move"  in conjunction with the future-marker
> س =  سوف  (from which, as an aside, I mention that the word procrastination " التسويف ") is derived?  Does not Occam's Razor (موس أوكام) suggest that we can make sense of what we are looking at by considering that السيارة هي وسيلة من وسائل النقل?



Hi mutalima.majhoola,

It can't be the verb نقل because there's no ن in ستقلنا.

The verb is definitely أقلّ in my opinion (and Cherine said so above too). It is quite commonly used in this context.


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## cherine

PlanC said:


> Could this page be able to satisfy your curiosity (which I admire).


PlanC, did you even read the page you kindly linked to? The verb is clearly أَقَلَّ - يُقِلُّ not أقال - يُقيل (which is conjugated here).
Even the other link you gave 





PlanC said:


> I said '*extirpated*' (pulled off) from the verb أقــال because to my knowledge أَقَلَّ as _to lower/decrease_ can't fit here, and neither any of its connotations does. Moreover we rarely use this form for the intended meaning. And this is the exact etymology of the word.


First, please note that the forum does not allow bare links, you need to copy from your linked pages the information relevant to the discussion.
Second, the page doesn't give etymology but meanings and examples. And here's a very clear one:
أقلت سحاباً﴿٥٧ الأعراف﴾ حملته ورفعته
So, the verb أقل means to carry يحمل .
So, السيارة التي ستقلنا means السيارة التي ستحملنا (the carry that will carry us), or in other terms: the car that we will ride.

I really don't see why you're arguing here.


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## PlanC

cherine said:


> PlanC, did you even read the page you kindly linked to? The verb is clearly أَقَلَّ - يُقِلُّ not أقال - يُقيل (which is conjugated here).
> Even the other link you gave
> First, please note that the forum does not allow bare links, you need to copy from your linked pages the information relevant to the discussion.
> Second, the page doesn't give etymology but meanings and examples. And here's a very clear one:
> أقلت سحاباً﴿٥٧ الأعراف﴾ حملته ورفعته
> So, the verb أقل means to carry يحمل .
> So, السيارة التي ستقلنا means السيارة التي ستحملنا (the carry that will carry us), or in other terms: the car that we will ride.
> 
> I really don't see why you're arguing here.


First I perfectly know the difference between قَلَّ - يُقِلُّ & أقال - يُقيل  since arabic is my native language too, and if the verb أقلَّ meaning to carry really exists please link to a page which conjugates  أقلَّ proprelly.
Second which bare link you're talking too, It's not necesary to throw me bunch of  rules like I'm trespassing them.
Third, I Have absolutely the right to argue and express my thought according to what I judge true and relevent, even if this will go in contradiction of what you said, in other words, think are not ineluctably true because you said so, or because a non native person sticks to what a text book said.


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## Ghabi

Just for others' easier reference: the Qur'anic verse (7:57) Cherine quotes above, which contains the phrase أقلت سحاباً, is translated as,

*Sahih International*: And it is He who sends the winds as good  tidings before His mercy until, when they have carried heavy rainclouds ...
*Pickthall*: And He it is Who sendeth the winds as tidings  heralding His mercy, till, when they bear a cloud heavy (with rain) ...
*Yusuf Ali*: It is He Who sendeth the winds like heralds of  glad tidings, going before His mercy: when they have carried the  heavy-laden clouds ...
*Shakir*: And He it is Who sends forth the winds bearing  good news before His mercy, until, when they bring up a laden cloud ...
*Muhammad Sarwar*: God sends the wind bearing the glad news  of His mercy. When heavy clouds are formed ...
*Mohsin Khan*: And it is He Who sends the winds as heralds  of glad tidings, going before His Mercy (rain). Till when they have  carried a heavy­laden cloud ...
*Arberry*: It is He who looses the winds, bearing good  tidings before His mercy, till, when they are charged with heavy clouds ...
(Source: The Quranic Arabic Corpus)


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## momai

PlanC said:


> and if the verb أقلَّ meaning to carry really exists please link to a page which conjugates  أقلَّ proprelly.


سلام
هذا هو
أنت استخدمت الموقع ذاته سابقا في المنشور رقم 11


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## cherine

PlanC said:


> First I perfectly know the difference between قَلَّ - يُقِلُّ & أقال - يُقيل


If قلّ is not a typo, then there's obviously a huge misunderstanding here. And reading your previous post:





PlanC said:


> I said '*extirpated*' (pulled off) from the verb أقــال because to my knowledge أَقَلَّ as _to lower/decrease_ can't fit here, and neither any of its connotations does. Moreover we rarely use this form for the intended meaning.


أقل does not mean to lower nor to decrease (these are قَلَّلَ), a different verb that shares the same root.So, maybe you just need to re-read the whole thread again calmly, to spare everyone -including yourself- a long debate that is based on a misunderstanding.





PlanC said:


> since arabic is my native language too, and if the verb أقلَّ meaning to carry really exists please link to a page which conjugates  أقلَّ proprelly.


I did. You just don't seem to take enough time to read.





> Second which bare link you're talking too, It's not necesary to throw me bunch of  rules like I'm trespassing them.


A bare link is a link without explanation of what it is about nor a quote from the page to which you link. This kind of links is forbidden by the forum rules which you need to read too.





> Third, I Have absolutely the right to argue and express my thought according to what I judge true and relevent, even if this will go in contradiction of what you said, in other words, think are not ineluctably true because you said so, or because a non native person sticks to what a text book said.


Absolutely. But there's a difference between a debate based on knowledge and research, and "argument" based on misunderstanding. This is why I'm urging you again to re-read the threads, and all the linked pages, carefully before prolonging this debate any further.


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## PlanC

This is all very clear, thanks for your time and effort.


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## Bakr

المشكل ما الفعل الذي اشتق منه..ستقلنا..رغم أن "أقال" ليس هو ذاك..ولكن هل "أقل" أم "قل" أم غير ذلك..السؤال مطروح ومازال..!ـ


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## PlanC

Bakr said:


> المشكل ما الفعل الذي اشتق منه..ستقلنا..رغم أن "أقال" ليس هو ذاك..ولكن هل "أقل" أم "قل" أم غير ذلك..السؤال مطروح ومازال..!ـ


Hi  				 				 					 						 	*Bakr*, (good to see you again) 
And yes indeed, the question still subsist, however ever since the of the noble Qur'an was revealed, lot of terminology were adapted from it into the rural then the urban language, even thought some words are 'exclusively' specific to it, I quote for example: تِلْكَ إِذاً قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى, which has arised many debates to the Qurayshites community from the very begening, another example which comes in my mind: وخلق الأرض فدحاها and according to my humble knowledge the word الدحــة seems to be another appelation of "the egg" in certain area of Lybia, this information is crusial if it is proven to be real, since that what I've been told, but the occasion to verify it, never showed up to me :]


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## AndyRoo

Bakr said:


> المشكل ما الفعل الذي اشتق منه..ستقلنا..رغم أن "أقال" ليس هو ذاك..ولكن هل "أقل" أم "قل" أم غير ذلك..السؤال مطروح ومازال..!ـ



بعص النتائج من بحث في غوغل عن كلمة أقلتهم

شاهد ماذا فعل نجوم الريال في الطائرة التي* أقلتهم* لميونيخ؟
لحظة نزول الحجاج في مطار جده من الطائره اللتي *أقلتهم* من بيروت
ما أن وصلت الباخرة التي *أقلتهم* إلى فلسطين المحتلة

الفعل يمكن أن يكون أقل. هل هناك فعل أفضل؟


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## Bakr

أقلتهم وأقلتها وغير ذلك مستعملة بكثرة وليست نادرة..لأوضح ما أريد قوله، أو ما لازال غامضا لدي، ها هي الأمثلة :ـ



> ق ل ل
> أقلَّ/ أقلَّ من يُقِلّ، أقلِل/ أقِلَّ، إقلالاً، فهو مُقِلّ، والمفعول مُقَلٌّ للمتعدِّي
> أقلَّ فلانٌ
> افتقر
> بخل، أتى بقليل "أقلّ من فعل الخير"
> أقلَّتِ الطَّائرةُ المسافرين: حملتهم ورفعتهم : حَتَّى إِذَا أَقَلَّتْ سَحَابًا ثِقَالاً سُقْنَاهُ لِبَلَدٍ مَيِّتٍ
> أقلَّ من زياراته لأصدقائه: جعلها قليلة





> ق ل ل
> قلَّ قَلَلْتُ، يَقِلّ، اقلِلْ/ قِلَّ، قَلاًّ، فهو قالّ، والمفعول مَقْلول
> قلَّتِ الطّائرةُ المسافرين: حملتهم ورفعتهم



معجم اللغة العربية المعاصرة



> يقال أَقَلَّ الشيءَ يُقِلُّه واستقلَّه يستقلُّه إِذا رفعه وحمله


لسان العرب



> ومعنى أقلت حملت مشتق من القلة لأن الحامل يعد محموله قليلا فالهمزة فيه للجعل



تفسير القرآن
التحرير والتنوير


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## AndyRoo

فالفعل يمكن أن يكون "قل" أو "أقل". ولكن هل رأيت "قل" في هذا السياق؟ أعني خارج القاموس.


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## Bakr

لا أعرف من أي فعل..جاء كل هذا..ولهذا أنا أيضا في انتظار جواب مقنع..وإلا لم أكن لأثير الموضوع من جديد؟


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## AndyRoo

Bakr said:


> لا أعرف من أي فعل..جاء كل هذا..ولهذا أنا أيضا في انتظار جواب مقنع..وإلا لم أكن لأثير الموضوع من جديد؟



اظن ان الجواب الصحيح هو الكلمة الأكثر استعمالًا.


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## Bakr

PlanC said:


> Hi                                                                                      *Bakr*, (good to see you again)
> And yes indeed, the question still subsist, however ever since the of the noble Qur'an was revealed, lot of terminology were adapted from it into the rural then the urban language, even thought some words are 'exclusively' specific to it, I quote for example: تِلْكَ إِذاً قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى, which has arised many debates to the Qurayshites community from the very begening, another example which comes in my mind: وخلق الأرض فدحاها and according to my humble knowledge the word الدحــة seems to be another appelation of "the egg" in certain area of Lybia, this information is crusial if it is proven to be real, since that what I've been told, but the occasion to verify it, never showed up to me :]


*PlanC* أهلا وشكرا
عفوا..لم ألاحظ جوابك، الأمثلة التي قدمتها هي في نفس السياق وتحتاج إلى تأمل..ولكن باختصار سأعود للكلمة لب الموضوع : لم أفكر من قبل في الفعل أو أصل أقلتنا وتقلنا..سيارة أو أي وسلية نقل أخرى..وهذه الكلمات مستعملة بكثرة في الجرائد والروايات وغير ذلك..مازلت أبحث عن جواب مقنع..ومرحبا بكل الآراء..!ـ


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## cherine

عفوًا بكر، لم أفهم سؤالك. هل تسأل عن الفعل؟ أليس "أقلّ - يُقِلّ" فعلاً؟ أم تسأل عن جذر الفعل؟ وفي هذه الحالة أظن أنه من الواضح أنه ق-ل-ل؟هل لك أن توضِّح؟


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## Bakr

الغموض سببه عدم الإشارة للفعل الأصل في بعض المعاجم..ولا إلى "أقلّ ـ يقلّ" في بعضها 
الآخر..والجمع ما بين قلَّ وقلاّ ثم أقلّ في"المنجد" للويس معلوف :ـ



> قلّ ــ قِلاّ وقُلاّ وقِلّة الشيء : علا | وــ قلاَّ الشيء : حمله | وــ هُ عن الأرض: رفعه
> أقلّ الشيء : رفعه.


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## cherine

لسان العرب أيضًا يضعه مع قلّ لأن كليهما من الجذر ق-ل-ل، ولكن المعنى واضح. بل إن الفعل "أقلّ" يرد في لسان العرب أولاً بمعنى جعل الشيء قليلاً، ولكنه يورد أيضًا معنى الحمل: "أَقَلَّ الشيءَ يُقِلُّه واستقلَّه يستقلُّه إذا رفعه وحمله"


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## Bakr

المعنى والاستعمال واضح..المشكل هو الفعل : قلّ أم أقلّ ؟ في الحقيقة لن أحير جوابا..وسوف أكتفي بما قيل..!ـ


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