# Читаемые всеми



## Lemminkäinen

Hi all 

Here's a quote from a text I read, and I'm wondering about the use of the present passive participle:



> *Читаемый* всеми, его стихи стали очень популярными, слишком популярнымй для правительства.



"Being read by everybody, his poetry became popular, too popular for the government"

Is the present p.p. used instead of the past because his poetry is still being read? It seems to work when translated to English, but when I translate to Norwegian it seems a bit weird.


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## Ptak

> Читаемые всеми, его стихи стали очень популярными, слишком популярными для правительства


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## Etcetera

Hi Lemmi.
First of all, a small correction: Читаемые всеми, not читаемый, because стихи is plural. And полулярными, not пополярнымй.
As for the question, was the sentence originally written in Russian? There's past participle читавшиеся, that could be used in the sentence (and, in my opinion, it would sound more naturally then). 
The use of читаемые may indicate that the poetry is still being read. But it may also betray that the author doesn't have very good command of Russian.


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## Lemminkäinen

The typos are all mine  

Yes, it was originally in Russian. I'm not completely sure, but it might have been written by my (Norwegian) teacher, but as far as I know, it's been proofread by some Russian professors.


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## Crescent

Lemminkäinen said:


> The typos are all mine
> 
> Yes, it was originally in Russian. I'm not completely sure, but it might have been written by my (Norwegian) teacher, but as far as I know, it's been proofread by some Russian professors.



Wait, just before you apologise, Lemmi, allow me to point something out, please.

I didn't notice the ''typo'' in Lemmi's sentence regarding: читаемый. And the reason for this is because I thought that the author of the phrase was refering to the poet (no doubt, Пушкин, isn't it, Lemmi?  ). And that phrase looks totally and completely normal to me.

Look: Читаемый всеми (о Пушкине), его стихи (стихи Пушкина) сталиочень популярными..etc.

So perhaps it wasn't a mistake after all?

And the second thing is - I'm very sorry, dear Etcetera, but I don't agree with you when you say that "читавшиеся" would make a better candidate for ''Being read'' than the original ''читаемые".  Perhaps it is a matter of solely personal opinion, but читавшиеся sounds quite odd to me.. and I prefer the original.  Sorry.

I hope you don't mind my little correction for you, too:  


			
				Etcetera said:
			
		

> (and, in my opinion, it would sound more naturally* natural* then)



''_More naturally_'' doesn't exist, I'm afraid. You can either say ''_naturally_'' or ''_more natural_'' but not both combined.


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## dima_david

Sorry Crescent, I, for one, am totally with Etcetera on this one. And your suggestion of Читаемый всеми, его стихи стали очень популярными. reminds me of that Chekovian "Проезжая в трамвае, с меня слетела шляпа."


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## jester.

Crescent said:


> ''_More naturally_'' doesn't exist, I'm afraid. You can either say ''_naturally_'' or ''_more natural_'' but not both combined.



A bit off-topic, but I'm quite sure that "more" and "naturally" can be combined. I don't see why there shouldn't be a comparison with "naturally".

"Thanks to this new fertiliser our plants can now grow more naturally."

What do you think?


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## dima_david

jester. said:


> A bit off-topic, but I'm quite sure that "more" and "naturally" can be combined. I don't see why there shouldn't be a comparison with "naturally".
> 
> "Thanks to this new fertiliser our plants can now grow more naturally."
> 
> What do you think?




Well, and on this one I am completely with Crescent! "Naturally" stands for "the way things ought to be", it is very awkward to say "even more the way things ought to be".

And the plants growing "more naturally" _because_ of fertilizer -- that would really piss off anyone in the "organic produce" community!


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## Ptak

dima_david said:


> And your suggestion of Читаемый всеми, его стихи стали очень популярными. reminds me of that Chekovian "Проезжая в трамвае, с меня слетела шляпа."


Exactly.

"_Читаемый всеми (о Пушкине), его стихи (стихи Пушкина) стали очень популярными"_ is wrong.

It should be a grammatical agreement between the attribute (читаемые, plural) and the verb (стали, plural).


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## Etcetera

dima_david said:


> "Проезжая в трамвае, с меня слетела шляпа."


It was Проезжая мимо станции, у меня слетела шляпа.
Hope you don't mind this correction. And thank you for your supporting me here.


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## scriptum

Etcetera said:


> It was Проезжая мимо станции, у меня слетела шляпа.
> Hope you don't mind this correction. And thank you for your supporting me here.


 
Подъезжая к сией станцыи и глядя на природу в окно, у меня слетела шляпа.


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## elroy

Crescent's correction was valid, but asserting that "more naturally" is incorrect is a faulty and misleading over-generalization.

_It would sound more natural._
"Natural" is correct here because "sound" is a linking verb, and "natural" is a predicate adjective that the verb links to the subject "it."  The reason "naturally" is incorrect is not that "more naturally" is incorrect, but that *in this sentence *we need an adjective and not an adverb.

In other contexts, "more naturally" is indeed correct:

_The more you read in a foreign language, the *more naturally* you are able to express yourself in that language._
_He is a great public speaker, but he should probably try to speak *more naturally*_.
_Some people are *more naturally* adept at playing musical instruments than others._ 

I am puzzled by the association of "naturally" with "the way things ought to be."  At the moment, I can't think of a context in which that meaning would apply, but in any case, "naturally" has at least a dozen meanings that have nothing to do with "the way things ought to be."


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## dima_david

You're right Elroy, the examples with "to speak/express oneself more naturally" do indeed sound just fine.

"Naturally" means (at least one of its meanings is) "as nature intended", "as is ordained by the natural order of things". That's where my "the way things ought to be" came from.


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## Etcetera

scriptum said:


> Подъезжая к сией станц*и*и и глядя на природу в окно, у меня слетела шляпа.



But you got me here. Thanks for citing the whole sentence!


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## scriptum

Etcetera said:


> But you got me here. Thanks for citing the whole sentence!


 
Excuse me, but I must insist. The text reads станцЫи.


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## cyanista

scriptum is right.  Cтанцыи is in the original sentence and it doesn't mean that Chekhov didn't know how to spell.


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## Etcetera

I'll know that, Cyanista.
Scriptum, I apologise for my poor knowledge of Russian literature. I have only one excuse: my strong point has always been British literature!


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## scriptum

Never mind, землячка. I apologize for my little bit of pedantry.


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## Crescent

dima_david said:


> Sorry Crescent, I, for one, am totally with Etcetera on this one. And your suggestion of Читаемый всеми, его стихи стали очень популярными. reminds me of that Chekovian "Проезжая в трамвае, с меня слетела шляпа."



Oh, my, this looks like a long overdue apology that I owe to everyone!  I'mn so embrassed! I was so sure of the fact that my ''читаемые всеми'' sounded just fine, that I didn't even manage to remember that I've already made this same mistake on the forums, not such a long time ago.
I can't believe I've forgotten Cyanista's (well, actually, Mr Chekhov's  ) marvellous citation: Проезжая мимо станцыи (или все таки "и"??) , с меня слетела шляпа! 

As for the correction I offered to Etcetera regarding natural/naturally - Dima thanks for backing me up on this, but to be honest, now that I've read Elroy's post I must admit that I'm not sure of anything anymore..The truth is that the reason I said it, was simply because that's the natural way for me to speak (and for the people which I'm around on a daily basis) so...to be honest, sometimes I don't think of the grammatical rule behind something and can't really justify my argument other than with pure 'instinct'.


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