# Grüß dich



## campbellk2

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of learning German, and would like to start talking to my German pen friend in German, rather than English. Would a good way to greet her be:

Gruß dich meine Freundin.

I am trying to say something which conveys, Hello friend.

Thanks for any help,
campbellk2


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## herrkeinname

Grüß dich, [Name]! 
Das klänge meiner Ansicht nach viel besser und natürlicher


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## campbellk2

I am very sorry, Herrkeinname but I do not understand your reply - I have only been learning German for 4 weeks. Would you please be so kind as to provide an English translation?

Vielen danke.


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## herrkeinname

No problem 

_Grüß dich, [your friend's name]! 
_
I think it would sound much better. Don't forget to use the umlaut, which can't be omitted. Instead of "meine Freundin", I suggest you simply say her name 

Of course, there are many phrases that are synonym for "grüß dich" - for example: _hallo, hi, moin moin, servus._


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## campbellk2

Thank you for your help and your suggestions. However I would like to ask if my original suggestion also makes sense. You see, we have greeted each other in English by saying Hello friend (even though it might not sound very natural) and I would now like to say the same thing in German - as long as it makes sense.

Vielen danke.


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## herrkeinname

campbellk2 said:


> Thank you for your help and your suggestions. However I would like to ask if my original suggestion also makes sense. You see, we have greeted each other in English by saying Hello friend (even though it might not sound very natural) and I would now like to say the same thing in German - as long as it makes sense.
> 
> Vielen danke.


Now I understand what you are getting at. Of course, it makes sense. And one more thing - "grüß dich" isn't as common as "hallo", but it's still absolutely understandable.


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## campbellk2

Thank you very much for all your help !!!


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## elroy

If you must include "Freundin" I would prefer "Grüß Dich Freundin" to "Grüß Dich _meine_ Freundin."


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## berndf

elroy said:


> If you must include "Freundin" I would prefer "Grüß Dich Freundin" to "Grüß Dich _meine_ Freundin."


 
I don't agree. "Grüß Dich Freundin" sounds very odd to my ears. "Grüß Dich, meine Freundin" sounds Ok to me (while I would also prefer "grüß Dich, _name_") and I would include to comma here while I wouldn't in "Hallo meine Freundin" because "Grüß Dich" is an entire sentence (with the omitted subject "Gott").

Concerning Herrkeinname's comment about "hallo" being more frequent than "grüß Dich", this is a regional issue. "Grüß Dich" is much more frequent in the South than it is in the North.


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## campbellk2

Thanks for your input


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## elroy

berndf said:


> I don't agree. "Grüß Dich Freundin" sounds very odd to my ears.


 Point taken.  I think we learners of German are particularly cautious about using "meine Freundin" because it can also mean "my girlfriend," so we tend to avoid it when we feel it can be confusing.

Unfortunately, as we are not native speakers we can't always tell when there is no room for ambiguity.  I have a feeling the ambiguity is exaggerated in the classroom.  Arabic also uses the same word for "friend" and "girlfriend" but the word is very commonly used with a possessive pronoun to refer to a platonic friend, with no ambiguity.


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## berndf

"Grüß Dich, mein(e) Freund(in)" can also be interpreted as provocative, if pronounced in a certain way. This is a tricky phrase. I would recommend a beginner to stick with the usual phrase "grüß Dich, _name_".


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## campbellk2

Well it was said as a greeting in an email. Also, it was to my friend of over a year (who knows I am a beginner at German) and she knows that I wouldn't mean anything nasty, so hopefully she wouldn't think of it as provocative?


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## berndf

No, that is fine. It is really only a problem in spoken German, if you accidentally happen to hit the wrong stress. And if it is clear you are a beginner people will probably assume you wouldn't know such subtleties.


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## campbellk2

Whew! Thanks!


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## berndf

I am awfully sorry to have frightened you.  I should have made it clear that my comment was directed to Elroy (who speaks German very well) giving him a word of caution what to tell to beginners.


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## AGATHA2

Sorry, but I can´t imagine any native speaker saying "Grüß dich, meine Freundin" Its absolutely artificial. Does it make sense to learn such a sentence ??


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## ablativ

berndf said:


> "Grüß Dich" is an entire sentence (with the omitted subject "Gott").


 
Do you really think so? We are not talking about "Grüß Gott"; therefore I think that the omitted subject is "I". _(Ich) grüß(e) dich, meine Freundin !_


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## shoplifter

> We are not talking about "Grüß Gott"; therefore I think that the omitted subject is "I". _(Ich) grüß(e) dich, meine Freundin !_


 
If _Grüß dich!_ means the Ich is just omitted then why is it _Grüßt euch!_ and not _Grüß euch! ? _


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## berndf

There is indeed a modern phrase "ich grüsse Dich" which reflects the modern meaning of the verb "grüssen". But the original phrase of which "grüss Dich" is an abbreviation is "grüss Dich Gott" which is still the normal thing to say in Bavaria and Austria. The literal translation (reflecting the historic meaning of the verb "grüssen") is "bless thee God", or "God bless you" in today's English.


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## berndf

shoplifter said:


> If _Grüß dich!_ means the Ich is just omitted then why is it _Grüßt euch!_ and not _Grüß euch! ? _


 
Well, it is _"_grüß euch_". _"Grüßt euch" is an occasionally heard mistake. "Grüss" (="grüsse" with omitted final "e") is here the third person singular present subjunctive ("er grüsse").


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## Brioche

berndf said:


> Well, it is _"_grüß euch_". _"Grüßt euch" is an occasionally heard mistake. "Grüss" (="grüsse" with omitted final "e") is here the third person singular present subjunctive ("er grüsse").



Is it pronounced _Grüss dich_ or _Grüß dich ?_


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## Hutschi

Hi, it is pronounced with a long vowel, "grüß Dich".
The standard after the orthography reform is: if the vowel is long, the "s"-sound is written "ß" (Maß, Gruß, ...), if it is short it is written "ss" (dass, Fass). (There is also a simple "s" as in "das" - in this case this rule does not apply, of course.)

The rule does not apply to Switzerland. They write "ss" instead of "ß".

It also does not apply to names if they keep the old spelling.


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## berndf

Brioche said:


> Is it pronounced _Grüss dich_ or _Grüß dich ?_


 
When I am writing with a Swiss keyboard, I use Swiss spelling because the Swiss keyboard does not have an _ß. _When copy/pasting from previous posts I don't always replace _ß _by_ ss. _Sorry for the confusion.


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## AGATHA2

shoplifter said:


> If _Grüß dich!_ means the Ich is just omitted then why is it _Grüßt euch!_ and not _Grüß euch! ? _


 

But it is "Grüß euch" !


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## shoplifter

I must have misheard it then. but thanks for the clarification!


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## mycrowgirl

Late response, but I just stumbled on this.

Campbell: Your greeting is fine considering the person you are writing to understands you are just learning the language- and you have already been greeting each other this way in English.

As for the _Grüßt euch! vs._Grüß euch debate:

_Grüßt euch! _is commonly used in colloquial German. It is a regionalism and should not be interpreted as incorrect in that setting. It is not Hochdeutsch, but it is a common turn of phrase.


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## Hutschi

mycrowgirl said:


> As for the _Grüßt euch! vs._Grüß euch debate:
> 
> _Grüßt euch! _is commonly used in colloquial German. It is a regionalism and should not be interpreted as incorrect in that setting. It is not Hochdeutsch, but it is a common turn of phrase.



I think this is true.

I'm not absolutely sure, but the origin might be: "Gott grüßt Euch". (This, because "Gott" is in many such phrases directly or indirectly.)

Is there any evidence for this?


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## mycrowgirl

My guess would be that it comes from the archaic "Es _grüßet euch_ [name]", a sort of greeting and proclamation all in one. It was common phrasing for the Romans and may stem from that.


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## Hutschi

"Es grüßt Euch _(name)_" or "Es grüßen Euch _(namen)_" is used some times at the end of letters.


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## mycrowgirl

Genau, same origin I suspect.


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## berndf

mycrowgirl said:


> My guess would be that it comes from the archaic "Es _grüßet euch_ [name]", a sort of greeting and proclamation all in one. It was common phrasing for the Romans and may stem from that.


 
I wouldn't think so. What you quoted is indicative and "Grüß Dich [Gott]" is definitly subjunctive an carries the original meaning of "grüßen"="to bless" (as in "Gegrüßet seiest Du, Maria, voll der Gnade..."), i.e. "may [God] bless you". I am rather confident that forms like "Grüßt Euch" are simply mistakes. "Es grüßt Euch XXX" corresponds to the modern meaning of "grüßen" and I would regard the two expressions ("Grüß Euch" and "Es grüßt Euch XXX") as unrelated.


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## KobiKobi

Ich bin dreimal in Bayern und Wien gewesen und niemals "Grüß dich Gott" gehört, nur "Grüß Gott."


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## sokol

KobiKobi said:


> Ich bin dreimal in Bayern und Wien gewesen und niemals "Grüß dich Gott" gehört, nur "Grüß Gott."



Das glaub ich dir gern, dennoch wird "Grüss dich Gott" verwendet: sowohl in Österreich als auch in Bayern. Es erfordert allerdings (natürlich), dass man per Du ist. Allein schon aus diesem Grund (und weil diese Begrüssung - mit "dich" - ohnehin als "ländlich" gilt) ist die Wahrscheinlichkeit, das in Wien zu hören, relativ gering.

In ländlichen Regionen ist das aber durchaus sehr geläufig. (Im Dialekt dann halt "Griass di God" oder ähnlich.)


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## ramadecer

Hi there.

I would like to know why is it in singular Grüß dich!, so Akkusativ, but Grüß euch!, so Dativ, in plural.
... what am i missing here?

Thanks.


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## Sowka

Hello ramadecer 

Welcome to the German forum!

"Euch" can be dative as well as accusative, for instance:

_Ich gebe *dir* die Bücher._ (dative) --> _Ich gebe *euch* die Bücher_.
_Ich sehe *dich*_. (accusative) ---> _Ich sehe *euch*_.

So "Grüß euch" uses the accusative.


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## ramadecer

Ah, thanks.
It still doesn't make sense, but I guess i'll just have to live with it.... is there a reason why _euch_ can also be accusative?..


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## berndf

ramadecer said:


> Ah, thanks.
> It still doesn't make sense, but I guess i'll just have to live with it.... is there a reason why _euch_ can also be accusative?..


_Euch_ *is* accusative (< Middle High German _iuch_). The dative (< Middle High German _iu_) merged into the accusative about 500 years ago. In Old English the forms merged too (_eowic_ (accusative) + _eow _(dative) both became _eow_ in late Old English). What is so mysterious about this?


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## ramadecer

My bad. I was too convinced that _ihr_ is the form for 2nd person, plural  in accusative. That's why it doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks, though.


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## berndf

ramadecer said:


> My bad. I was too convinced that _ihr_ is the form for 2nd person, plural in accusative. That's why it doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> Thanks, though.


I see. In 2nd person plural, _ihr_ is nominative. (There is also a 3rd person singular feminine dative form _ihr_ (=English _her_) but this is purely incidental.)


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## ramadecer

My argument was that the only difference between nominative and accusative is the 3rd person, masculine form (the "n" instead of "r" thing)... Apparently, i messed up different types of pronouns (personal and reflexive, that is).


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## Kumpel

ramadecer said:


> My argument was that the only difference between nominative and accusative is the 3rd person, masculine form (the "n" instead of "r" thing)... Apparently, i messed up different types of pronouns (personal and reflexive, that is).



Just to clarify:

*Nom*, Acc, *Dat *- Reflexive acc/*dat*
*ich*, mich, *mir *- mich/*mir*
*du*, dich, *dir *- dich/*dir*
*er*, ihn, *ihm *- sich/*sich*
*sie*, sie, *ihr *- sich/*sich*
*es*, es, *ihm *- sich/*sich*

*wir*, uns, *uns *- uns/*uns*
*ihr*, euch, *euch *- euch/*euch*
*sie*, sie, *ihnen *- sich/*sich*

*Sie*, Sie, *Ihnen *- sich/*sich*

Hope there're no typos,
Lloyd


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## Dan2

Kumpel said:


> Just to clarify:
> 
> *Nom*, Acc, *Dat *- Reflexive
> *ich*, mich, *mir *- mich
> *du*, dich, *dir *- dich
> *er*, ihn, *ihm *- sich
> ...


Rather than list a single "reflexive" form, wouldn't it be more complete to list both an "accusative reflexive" and a "dative reflexive"?  I.e., just as non-reflexive pronouns can be accusative or dative (ich sehe dich, ich gebe dir..., so can reflexive pronouns (ich sehe mich, ich gebe mir...).  (I won't object to your omitting the genitive pronouns...)


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## Kumpel

Dan2 said:


> Rather than list a single "reflexive" form, wouldn't it be more complete to list both an "accusative reflexive" and a "dative reflexive"?  I.e., just as non-reflexive pronouns can be accusative or dative (ich sehe dich, ich gebe dir..., so can reflexive pronouns (ich sehe mich, ich gebe mir...).  (I won't object to your omitting the genitive pronouns...)



Of course! Thanks, that's me rushing, for you. I'll go edit it.
The comment about the genitive: I'm not sure if it's sarcastic, or if I'm paranoid. I tend to omit it because it 'doesn't relate to verbs' - that is, all the other cases are dependant on how the pronoun relates to the verb (prepositions, too, I know), but the genitive not.


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## berndf

Kumpel said:


> Of course! Thanks, that's me rushing, for you. I'll go edit it.
> The comment about the genitive: I'm not sure if it's sarcastic, or if I'm paranoid. I tend to omit it because it 'doesn't relate to verbs' - that is, all the other cases are dependant on how the pronoun relates to the verb (prepositions, too, I know), but the genitive not.


This is true in English but not in German. The German genitive has many non-possessive uses. There are genitive objects, e.g. _einer Sache bedürfen_, and some prepositions require genitive, e.g. _wegen einer Sache_.


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## Kumpel

berndf said:


> This is true in English but not in German. The German genitive has many non-possessive uses. There are genitive objects, e.g. _einer Sache bedürfen_, and some prepositions require genitive, e.g. _wegen einer Sachen_.



Am völligsten hast du da ja natürlich Recht! Mein Standpunkt ist gänzlich gewechselt worden. Ich füge aber den Genitiv zu der Deklination nicht hinzu, weil er nicht wirklich zu diesem Thread (über die Begrüßung) gehört.

Lloyd


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## berndf

Kumpel said:


> Ich füge aber den Genitiv zu der Deklination nicht hinzu, weil er nicht wirklich zu diesem Thread (über die Begrüßung) gehört.


Da stimme ich zu.


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