# пойти на таран



## jarvisa

И вот остановка, и в поступи тяжкой
В автобус заходит старик ветеран
И видя, что парень подняться не может
Старик оборзел и пошёл на таран:

My translation:

And here is the stop, and with an arduous tread
An old veteran gets on the bus
And seeing that the guy is unable to get up
The old man became insolent and went in headlong:

‘пошёл на таран’ translates as ‘went on the ram’ so I am assuming that it means ‘went ahead recklessly.’
Is this correct?


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## Vovan

jarvisa said:


> I am assuming that it means ‘went ahead recklessly.’


Went on a direct attack.
"Пошёл в лобовую атаку" might work here as well (that is, as said figuratively).


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## stream21

jarvisa said:


> ‘пошёл на таран’ translates as ‘went on the ram’ so I am assuming that it means ‘went ahead recklessly.’
> Is this correct?


Quite. But "пошел на таран" is more colourful. It implies a tough physical contact. In my mind it associates with one battle-plane ram attacking the other in the sky and a crash of both. Here it means "went ahead recklessly smiting the people and things that bar the way."   (in the figurative sense of course)

All that is basically for educational purposes, so to speak. It's impossible to preserve everything translating poetry.  Translated poetry must sound as if originally written in the language of translation in the first place and have poetic qualities of its own. All the rest is of minor importance.


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## Vovan

*jarvisa*
Also note that"insolent" is rather stylistically misleading there. I'd suggest that you go for something stronger and/or more colourful, like "barefacedly" or something like that.


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## Sobakus

It's not an established expression for "go ahead recklessly", it's a literal reference to air ramming (a commonplace for a feat of heroism in Soviet WWII mythology) that plays on the subject being a WWII veteran. I was somehow under the impression that "to go for a ram" was a valid Englihs expression, but I can't seem to find any occurrences. Perhaps "decided to ram" is a good option.


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## pimlicodude

Sobakus said:


> It's not an established expression for "go ahead recklessly", it's a literal reference to air ramming (a commonplace for a feat of heroism in Soviet WWII mythology) that plays on the subject being a WWII veteran. I was somehow under the impression that "to go for a ram" was a valid Englihs expression, but I can't seem to find any occurrences. Perhaps "decided to ram" is a good option.


I think you may be thinking of "to go on the rampage", which is a bit excessive here. Maybe "flew off the handle" would suit here?


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## nizzebro

pimlicodude said:


> flew off the handle


I guess that this one involves causality in emotions or the state of mind of the subject; but, пошёл на таран has no such - it is only the character of the act; as an idiom, it says only about his  decisiveness,  the strength of intent. Just an attack that cannot be stopped as the attacker is as decisive as a kamikaze pilot.


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## Sobakus

pimlicodude said:


> I think you may be thinking of "to go on the rampage", which is a bit excessive here. Maybe "flew off the handle" would suit here?


No, I have to repeat: the original is not an idiomatic expression or similar to these in any way. I was trying to come up with a literal expression for one airplane attempting to take down another by ramming, as a desperation tactic. This is used a military simile, a literary device (again not as an idiom) whose interpretation is left to the reader as being self-explanatory.


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## pimlicodude

Maybe "the old man got stuck in"?


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## Sobakus

pimlicodude said:


> Maybe "the old man got stuck in"?


I think this stresses persistent involvement in a continued process, and also misses the military simile. It ought to be a military version of "to floor it, step on the gas", or "go all in". Perhaps something with cavalry charges will work; in modern teenage slang the old man _*yolo'd.*_


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## pimlicodude

Sobakus said:


> I think this stresses persistent involvement in a continued process, and also misses the military simile. It ought to be a military version of "to floor it, step on the gas", or "go all in". Perhaps something with cavalry charges will work.


Went all in - might be most appropriate for an old man on a bus.


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## pimlicodude

Sobakus said:


> I think this stresses persistent involvement in a continued process, and also misses the military simile. It ought to be a military version of "to floor it, step on the gas", or "go all in". Perhaps something with cavalry charges will work; in modern teenage slang the old man _*yolo'd.*_


I have no idea what "yolo" means, but maybe. But it's not always the case that a translation into another language can preserve all aspects of an original language's idiom. It doesn't have to be a military simile, but rather something that would be acceptable in the target language.


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## pimlicodude

This comes down to translation theory, of course. I suppose a number of different approaches may be recommended in MA translation courses.


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## Sobakus

pimlicodude said:


> This comes down to translation theory, of course. I suppose a number of different approaches may be recommended in MA translation courses.


I mean, the military simile is what the entire verse seems to revolve around. It plays on stereotypical Russian realities, namely destitute WWII veterans on public transport whom everyone feels pity for and an obligation to vacate the seat to - except the young generation. It's as if the veteran has a war flashback and is suddenly determined not to suffer defeat at the hands of some little brat who can't show some consideration and respect.


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## pimlicodude

Sobakus said:


> I mean, the military simile is what the entire verse seems to revolve around. It plays on stereotypical Russian realities, namely destitute WWII veterans on public transport whom everyone feels pity for and an obligation to vacate the seat to - except the young generation.


Yes. There is also "went on the warpath". Maybe that is something you have been edging towards?


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## Sobakus

pimlicodude said:


> Yes. There is also "went on the warpath". Maybe that is something you have been edging towards?


This one's close, yes, but sounds preliminary rather than immediate. It does make me recall expressions like "went on the offensive", or maybe "decided to engage", but even these aren't quite immediate enough - there needs to be an element of stark determination.


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## Enquiring Mind

_... went in like a battering ram., ... went in all guns blazing, ... the old man let fly._


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