# هـا نـحـن أمــةُ أحـمـدٍ...



## salar1

Hi,
can anyone please help me translate these arabic sentences into English or Urdu?

*
هـا نـحـن أمــةُ أحـمـدٍ .. لا ننحـنـي 
ورؤوسُــنـــا لا تعـتـلـيـهـا ســـحـــبُ 
عنوانُـنـا : استـعـلاءُ أعـظــمِ مـنـهـجٍ 
والـعــزُّ منـبـعـه .. ونــعــمَ الــشِّــربُ 
ورسولُنا الأغلـى .. وشمـسُ حياتنـا 
وبـذكــرِ أحـمــدَ كـــم تــرنَــمَ صــــبُّ
*


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## cute angel

Here we are the nation of Ahmed..we never bow 

And there are no clouds above our heads.

Our title:blessing the great curriculum 

and the pride is it's spring......

And our precious Messenger ...the sun of our lives

And by the remembrance of Ahmed we feel as if we are listening to music

I hope it'll help I translate the meaning not the words

I don't know URDU sorry


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## salar1

Is it from some kind of poetry. Right? It sounds like poetry...


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## cherine

salar1 said:


> Is it from some kind of poetry. Right? It sounds like poetry...


It *is* a poem, but I'm not sure if its metric بحر is correct or regular.

Cute Angel suggests a very good translation, but I have a couple of comments:


cute angel said:


> Our title:blessing the great curriculum


I don't thing استعلاء أعظم منهج is blessing the great curriculum, it's more of: "following the best method" or something like that.


> and the pride is it's spring......


I'd go for "dignity" rather than pride. منبعه Spring or source.


> And by the remembrance of Ahmed we feel as if we are listening to music


*وبـذكــرِ أحـمــدَ كـــم تــرنَــمَ صــــبُّ*

I think it means: how many times a lover has sung the praise of Ahmed.


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## Abu Bishr

Hi all

The meter or baHr seems to me that of al-Kaamil which runs as follows:

متفاعلن متفاعلن متفاعلن * متفاعلن متفاعلن متفاعلن

with a couple of changes and modifications here and there. The 'aruD appears to be SaHiihah and the Darb maqTuu' that is: متفاعلْ . In other words, the last taf'ilah is متفاعلْ , instead of متفاعلن . Lastly, the qaafiyah or rhyme ends in a baa' so that the second, fourth and sixth lines ending in the baa' are the end of each poetry verse. So in a way, it should read something like this:


*هـا نـحـن أمــةُ أحـمـدٍ .. لا ننحـنـي * ورؤوسُــنـــا لا تعـتـلـيـهـا ســـحـــبُ *
*عنوانُـنـا : استـعـلاءُ أعـظــمِ مـنـهـجٍ * والـعــزُّ منـبـعـه .. ونــعــمَ الــشِّــربُ *
*ورسولُنا الأغلـى .. وشمـسُ حياتنـا * وبـذكــرِ أحـمــدَ كـــم تــرنَــمَ صــــبُّ *​ 

I hope this is clear. I know it's a little technical, but I just thought I'll comment on what I think the meter or baHr of the poem is.​


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## cherine

Thanks Abu Bishr 

I didn't have the chance to stay عروض  but I think that what you say here


Abu Bishr said:


> with a couple of changes and modifications here and there.


means that I was right in thinking that there was something irregular in the music of the verses.

Or was I not?


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## Abu Bishr

Well, it is not uncommon for the best of Arabic poems to deviate from the perfect baHr, and to have sukuuns where there are supposed to be harakaat, or to drop a letter where that letter is supposed to be saakin, and so on. And you are right that these changes are not always regular and consistent, but you will find some others are as the following brief analysis will show.

So here we find, the first two lines opening with مُتْفَاعِلْنْ 
(i.e. mutfaa3ilun or Harakah sukuun Harakah sukuun Harakah Harakah sukuun) instead of مُتَفَاعِلُنْ 
(i.e. mutafaa3ilun or Harakah Harakah Harakah sukuun Harakah Harakah sukuun)
which is how the final line opens.

هَانَحْنُؤُمْ (haanaHnu-um) = Harakah sukuun Harakah sukuun Harakah Harakah sukuun

عُنْوَانُنَسْ ('unwaanunas) = Harakah sukuun Harakah sukuun Harakah Harakah sukuun

وَرَسُوْلُنَلْ (warasuulunal) = Harakah Harakah Harakah sukuun Harakah Harakah sukuun

In the second half of line one ورؤوسنا is mutafaa3ilun, and so also is وبذكر أح , the second half of line three.

As for the second half of line two, والعزّ منْ is mutfaa3ilun.

Finally, the endings of line one, two and three are: 
mutfaa3il (هاسحبو), 
mutfaa3il (مششربو), and
matafaa3il (نمصببو).

So the most common change here seems to be unvowelling the second letter of mutafaa3ilun such that it becomes mutfaa3ilun. These changes are not regular and consistent as we have observed. As for the dropping of the (un) from matafaa3ilun at the end of each line to become mutafaa3il, that change is sort of regular and consistent, and I would assume throughout the poem.


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## cherine

Thanks for the detailed examples 

A simple question now, please: 
 بِغَضّ النظر عن التغير في التفعيلة، هل الوزن مكسور؟ أم أن التغيير في التفعيلة لم يؤثر في ذلك؟


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## suma

salar1 said:


> Hi,
> can anyone please help me translate these arabic sentences into English or Urdu?
> 
> 
> *هـا نـحـن أمــةُ أحـمـدٍ .. لا ننحـنـي *
> *ورؤوسُــنـــا لا تعـتـلـيـهـا ســـحـــبُ *
> *عنوانُـنـا : استـعـلاءُ أعـظــمِ مـنـهـجٍ *
> *والـعــزُّ منـبـعـه .. ونــعــمَ الــشِّــربُ *
> *ورسولُنا الأغلـى .. وشمـسُ حياتنـا *
> *وبـذكــرِ أحـمــدَ كـــم تــرنَــمَ صــــبُّ*


 
The parts in red I think could go like this:
"Here we are the people of Ahmed (Islam)* Subservience is not for us*
Not even the clouds can rise above our heads*
Our motto: Superiority is the best course * Honor its fountain and what a wonderful drink"

The part in green, I didn't understand that last bit.


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## Abu Bishr

فيما يبدو لي وحسبي معلوماتي القاصرة أن الوزن سليم مستقيم لا غبار عليه، ولعل القطع (أيْ حذف الحرف الساكن من آخر "متفاعلن") في الضرب (وهو آخر الشطر الثاني من البيت) هو الذي كسا القطعة لبس الغرابة لاختلاف هذه التفعيلة مع بقية أخواتها وعدم انسجامها معهن، ولكن هذا الضرب أي المقطوع من الأضرب الصحيحة الثابتة في شعر العرب بشكل مستفيض ومن الأمثلة على ذلك البيت التالي:​ 
أمَعَ الممات يطيبُ عيشك يا أخي * هيهات ليس مع الممات يطيبُ​ 
هل هو على بحر تلك؟ نعم أعتقد ذلك فهو مقطوع الضرب كما هي مقطوعة الضرب، وقد أصاب ثاني "متفاعلن" تسكين في أول الشطر الثاني كما هو شأن بعض الأبيات هنالك. هذا كل ما عندي، وأرجو أني قد ،وُفقتُ في الإجابة عن السؤال.

والله أعلم​


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## WadiH

cherine said:


> Thanks for the detailed examples
> 
> A simple question now, please:
> بِغَضّ النظر عن التغير في التفعيلة، هل الوزن مكسور؟ أم أن التغيير في التفعيلة لم يؤثر في ذلك؟


 
There are rules for when this is allowed.  Look for الزحاف, القبض, العلّة while you're looking for العروض and you might find webpages that explain this.


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## Abu Bishr

The change from mutafaa3ilun to mutfaa3ilun,that is,the "taskiin thaani al-taf3iilah" is a type of al-ziHaaf called al-iDmaar, and it's a change that is not laazim. This is the definition they give of al-ziHaaf:

تغيير يطرأ على ثواني الأسباب دون الأوتاد وهو غير لازم، بمعنى أن دخوله في بيت من القصيدة لا يستلزم دخوله في بقية أبياتها

Al-Qat3, that we have mentioned in a previous post, is a type of change referred to as a'-3illah, and is defined as follows:

تغيير يطرأ على الأسباب والأوتاد من العَروض أو الضرب وهي لازمة بمعنى أنها إذا وردت في أول بيت من القصيدة التزمت في جميع أبياتها

The example of al-3illah that we have seen in these lines is al-qat3, which is the change of mutaa3ilun to mutafaa3il, at the end of every verse, and it is consistent throughout the poem.

In sum, the lines mentioned in this thread show two types of changes:

(a) al-qat3 which is a type al-3illah, and it is consistent throughout the poem, and
(b) al-iDmaar which is a type of al-ziHaaf, and it is not consistent throughout the poem.


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## salar1

Thanks alot for detailed discussion. But I have something else to ask now. What is the name of this poem and where can I get this full poem?


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## Xence

salar1 said:


> Thanks alot for detailed discussion. But I have something else to ask now. What is the name of this poem and where can I get this full poem?


 
This poem is attributed to 7asan 3ali Annajjar. It was written as a reply to the repeated offenses againt The Prophet Muhammad (saws).
You can find the whole poem here, for instance:
*http://www.otaibah.net/m/showthread.php?t=62620 *

or here:
http://www.alkeltawia.com/vb/showpost.php?p=5757&postcount=2


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## salar1

thanks Xence. Did you mean the recent danish offenses? So this poem is new.


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## Xence

salar1 said:


> thanks Xence. Did you mean the recent danish offenses? So this poem is new.


Quite so.


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## Saleh Al-Qammaari

We are proudly the nation of Ahmad, we never surrender 
Our heads are so high even above the thunder

Just an attempt to translate the first two verses poetically 

All the Best!


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## suma

crystal clear said:


> We are proudly the nation of Ahmad, we never surrender
> Our heads are so high even above the thunder
> 
> Just an attempt to translate the first two verses poetically
> 
> All the Best!


 
Very nice touch Crystal Clear


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## Saleh Al-Qammaari

suma said:


> Very nice touch Crystal Clear



Many thanks, Suma!​ 
Your words encouraged me to complete my attempt in translating the remaining verses. I hope them to be fine.​ 
Our slogan: is adhering to the best manner*​ Supplied with honor; what an excellent provider​ Our Messenger is dearest one, a sun illuminating for whatever's on earth and under​ Mentioning his biography makes many feel like a passionate chanting adorer​ 


* _It is derived from the Quran (the Book which God revealed to him) and Sunnah (his acts, sayings and tacit approvals because they was revealed to him as well)._​


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