# Szabolcs



## CatalinaSuperstar

Hello,

I'm working with a guy in Hungary over the phone called Szabolcs. How do I pronounce this when asking for him?

Is there any English equivalent?

Thank you,


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## Orreaga

Since I guess I'm the first to see this, I'll answer...

the "sz" is pronounced like English "s"
the "cs" is pronounced like English "ch" (in "chip")

So, syllable by syllable:

"Sza" is pronounced roughly like "saw" in English, but short
"bolcs" is pronounced like "bolch", also short ("o" as in Spanish "o").

The stress is always on the first syllable in Hungarian:

"SAW-bolch" is a reasonably close approximation for an English speaker.


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## Spectre scolaire

Magda Szabó (or rather Szabó Magda – with the surname first, as always in Hungarian) was a great Hungarian poet and novellist who recently died at the age of 90.

Her surname means “tailor”.
 ​


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## Orreaga

*Szabolcs *is a place name, a surname, and more commonly a first name in Hungary, but I believe it is unrelated to *szabó *(with a long _ó_) meaning "tailor" (one of the most common Hungarian surnames).  The town of this name is located in far northeast Hungary, and lends its name to the Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg County in which it is located.  

According to the English Wikipedia, the meaning of the name is unknown, although it may be of Turkic origin.  It was the name of Prince Árpád's nephew (of the 10th century) who "is said to have been the second great leader of the Magyars."


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## Spectre scolaire

Orreaga said:
			
		

> According to the English Wikipedia, the meaning of the name is unknown, although it may be of Turkic origin.


What makes you think the name could be of Turkish origin?
​


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## Orreaga

Spectre scolaire said:


> What makes you think the name could be of Turkish origin?



That was from Wikipedia, not my opinion.


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## Zsanna

What I do not understand is how Szabó Magda comes into the picture. 
Could you explain, please, Spectre scolaire?

The trouble is that there are a lot of versions about the origins of Hungarian words, names and it is difficult to know who to trust. (Wikipedia may give a good idea about things to start with but I wouldn't bet on it. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on anything much. ) 

I have the Akadémiai Kislexikon (1) & the Magyar utónévkönyv (by Ladó János) (2)and they also write a bit differently about Szabolcs:

1. "(10.sz.) fejedelem, a Csák nemzetség őse, Árpád unokaöccse, Anonymus szerint Előd fia "

In English: 
(10th C) leader/emperor, ancestor of the Csák family, Árpád's nephew (Árpád being the first leader of the Hungarian tribes at the time of our arriving into/conquest of the Carpathian basin in the 9th C) and the son of Előd (= one of the 7 tribe leaders who "arrived"/did the conquesting under the leadership of Árpád) according to Anonymus (= the writer of king Béla III, who wrote the history of Honfoglalás - the conquest/arrival - in around 1200)

2. Ismeretlen eredetű régi magyar személynévből Vörösmarty Mihály újította föl. Béla király jegyzője szerint a honfoglaló magyar vezérek egyike volt.

In English: 
Old Hungarian name, origin unknown, picked up again by V.M. (= a famous Romantic and patriotic poet from the 19th C) According to the writer of king Béla he was one of the conquesting Hungarian leaders.

Mixing up characters (him with his father in this case) or the 9th C with the 10th is obviously not a big problem when you go back to those times...  
So much about trusting (even more or less respectable) sources.


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## Spectre scolaire

Zsanna said:
			
		

> What I do not understand is how Szabó Magda comes into the picture.


 A very prosaic reason: I associated what turned out to be a city with this famous Hungarian author.  I infer that her surname has nothing to do with the place-name.  It was a former colleague of mine _whose name was precisely Szabó_ who told me about her. From an anthology I then read some short stories written by Szabó Magda. 

I have been to Hungary several times – even to a place like _Pannonhalma_ which is indispensable for understanding Hungarian history. The spectacular site of this archabbey was turned into a fortress when the Turks entered the region.

And here we are back to the alleged Turkish origin of this place-name. I would find it very strange if somebody were able to cough up a Turkish etymology of it. But who knows? Turki*c* [sic] influence on Hungarian is not limited to the Ottomans, but was indeed a factor long before they came around. 
 ​


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## Zsanna

Spectre scolaire said:


> A very prosaic reason: I associated what turned out to be a city with this famous Hungarian author.


 
I'm sorry, I still don't understand... Szabó Magda's town is (was, she is dead) Debrecen if I'm not mistaken. 
Debrecen is the capital of Hajdú-Bihar county which is _next_ to the one with Szabolcs (albeit not a town) in its name, OK... but that's the closest we got so far...
Szabolcs is not a place name originally. 
?


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## Spectre scolaire

Zsanna said:
			
		

> Szabolcs is not a place name originally.


 So, what _is_ Szabolcs? 

I was not referring to any city at all - only to the author. But I understand this was wrong. 
​


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## Zsanna

Szabolcs is a Hungarian first name.
I had some difficulties translating "személynév" (in n°7) because it just means "person's name" without any precision if it is a first name or a family name. Hungarians of that era (9th - 10th C) seemed to have only one name and it "feels" more like a first name than a family name (probably because it survived as such, together with all the other old Hungarian names of the same period). For the meaning, see the translation of two sources in n°7. 

It is not unsual that it became connected to one of our counties (*Szabolcs*-Szatmár-Bereg in the NE of Hungary, as Orreaga mentioned above), I think there are (rather were) others (like Csanád). 
However, apparently, there is no geographical correspondance between the actual county and the place where the Szabolcs family ("nemzetség") originally settled down (it was near the Danube).

You write: I was not referring to any city at all - only to the author.

This is exactly that perplexed me: why? In what way Sz. M. is connected to Szabolcs? Sorry, I still don't understand...


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## Spectre scolaire

Apparently, to associate Szab|olcs with Szab|ó is as silly as associating Hung|ary with hung|ry. Only, I didn’t know. 

But I am always hungry to learn. 
 ​


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## Zsanna

Aha... I see! 
No, they really don't have anything in common.

Now, because you said you were hungry... (i.e. I am not chatty at all! ) :
Szabolcs cannot be "subdivided" (you can only find different spelling for it in older documents) meanwhile Szabó comes from the same common noun (meaning _taylor_, _dress maker_) formed from the verb "szab" (to taylor/to cut out/to define/to impose) plus the ó = a suffix for making a present participle from the verb it is added.

I still have not found any indication to Szabolcs's Turkish origin though there are plenty of old Hungarian names which do have (Bulgarian-)Turkish roots (e.g. Ajtony, Álmos, Bors, Botond, Kend, Tas, etc.). 
Even the chief leader's name: Árpád. It comes from the Bulgarian-Turkish word árpa (= barley, word used even today) to which the Hungarian diminutive "d" is added, meaning 'little barley'.


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