# China



## luis masci

Hola gente
Ahora con la globalización, muchos países remotos han dejado de ser un misterio. 
Sin embargo, algunos se mantienen todavía como tal. 
Es lo que siento con China. ¿Alguien estuvo alguna vez allí? ¿Alguien puede contarnos algo sobre este enigmático país? No tiene que ser necesariamente sobre política sino cuestiones tales como su estándar de vida, costumbres, o aún mejor su experiencia personal allí.

Hi folks
Now with globalization, many remote countries have left to be a mystery. However some of them still keep so. I feel its China’s case. Was anyone ever there? Does anyone to be up telling something about this puzzle country?
It’s not necessarily about politic, but subjects such its standard of life, customs o even better his/her personal experience there.


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## nycphotography

I have been to China and to Africa, and what was most interesting to me was the fact that while the industrial west is having an effect on China, China (in terms of cheap manufactured goods) is also having an effect on Africa.

Two small examples:  In Africa, the women selling fruits and meals on the sidewalks would carry them all in cheap yellow or red plastic bowls, maybe 50cm across, instead of the traditional woven baskets.  Also, where they used to have hand carved wooden canoes in the villages, now the have plastic, fiberglass and aluminum ones made in China, with outboard motors from Japan.

Globalization is affecting us all in many many subtle detailed ways in our lives.


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## Maika

Yo estuve en China hace muchos años, en 1975. El país aún no estaba abierto al turismo, y era la época de Mao. Yo trabajaba en una agencia de viajes, y tuve la oportunidad de llevar a un grupo oficial de arquitectos de una dependencia gubernamental.

Fue una experiencia muy interesante, de las mejores de mi vida viajera. Estuve en¨Pekín, Shangai, Cantón y algunos alrededores. Los chinos todavía vestían igual (de azul) y utilizaban los mismos zapatos de tela (dos modelos o tres únicamente, en todas las ciudades igual).

Podría contarte mil cosas, pero lo que más me impresionó:

1) Sin ser un país rico (porque no se veía riqueza económica), nunca vi miseria, como la he visto en mi país y en otros países, y mira que China es grande y con millones de personas. Los rostros de los niños eran felices, en cualquier lugar en donde los vi. Y otra cosa, eran niños muy sanos, el color de su piel y su constitución corporal lo expresaban.

2) La organización. Visitamos barrios residenciales, escuelas, fábricas, comunas y todo era muy organizado, nos explicaban su sistema de enseñanza, de producción, de vida, de lo que fuera.

3) El arte. Un país sumamente artístico, obras de arte por todas partes (me refiero a museos y tiendas, que en aquellos tiempos se llamaban "Tiendas de la Amistad" y eran para turistas, y una se quería traer todo lo que veía. Porque las casas que vi, en barrios residenciales, no eran lujosas en absoluto, eran muy sencillas, y la gente también.

4) La comida. Deliciosa, diferente en todas las regiones. Por lo menos acá estamos acostumbrados a una o dos variedades de comida china (sobre todo la cantonesa, que es muy alegre y artística por cierto). Pero es riquísima, y una de las más variadas hasta donde sé. Me fascinó el pato laqueado que comí en Pekín y una cena en Cantón que constaba de 19 platillos (sí, 19); claro que los platillos no eran muy vastos, más bien eran platones y se podía probar de todo, era como un bufete. Lo maravilloso es que con la comida había maquetas con paisajes y jardines, y muchas cosas en el restaurante. Era un lujo ver eso. Lo único que no probé, no pude, fue el huevo de 100 años (entierran el huevo, en la antiguedad lo enterraban 100 años, ahora no sé cuanto, pero me dio horror).

5) Su autosuficiencia. En esos tiempos, China era autosuficiente, y exportaban sólo lo que les sobraba. Su agricultura era increíble, la comuna a la que fuimos tenía cultivos de todo, y su propia presa, casas habitación, guardería, todo todo.

Me hiciste recordar tantas cosas hermosas.... bueno, el haber estado parada sobre la Gran Muralla es algo que se lleva una, no? Experiencias inolvidables.

Saludos

Y una última cosa que se me olvidó de lo que me impresionó (y me dio envidia): un país sumamente politizado.


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## luis masci

Interesante lo que cuentan. Habría que ver como están ahora 30 años después y con más población todavía.
Yo nunca estuve en China, apenas tuve un par de contactos a través de internet. Uno con una chica de 18 años que me mandó varias fotos de pujantes ciudades, me habló muy positivamente de su país me dijo que estaba empezando la universidad...y luego desapareció aduciendo que estaba en instrucción militar. No estoy muy seguro que su testimonio haya sido imparcial porque me dijo que su padre era algo del gobierno.
El otro contacto fue un hombre  de 30 años, muy amable muy cordial que me contó que solo les era permitido tener un hijo por pareja (el tenía una bebé). Pero cuando le pregunté como hacía el gobierno para controlar que eso se cumpliera, que pasaba si su mujer volvía a quedar embarazada... ya no me contestó. No se si porque no quiso o no pudo ya que su inglés no era el mejor. ​


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## kamspp

hey all,

As far as I know, China is a communist country.  However, the norms of communism in nowadays China are totally distorted.  It is more like a capitalist-communism they're now implementing.

Generally, the origin of communism is to let everyone live to the fullness,  in other words, to establish classless society, to prompt even distributions of well-beings and possessions, albeit they're not supposed to own anything, but rather, all properties and productions are deemed to be common-owned, or as I realized, government's.  And government has all the right to determine everything, to pass all ordinances, etc.  To some extent, a communist country would sorta isolate itself from other countries, because trading is nothing necessary as they can fulfill their needs by themselves.  Also, they do not allow any outsiders to disturb their policies, or anything opposition to their current policies.  I can quote incidentce of the Tiananmen Massacre.

Anyways, China nowadays is nowhere close to communism.  They open their market to internation and free market is what they encourage.  As-a-matter-of-factly, after implementing free trade and prompting real estate developement (the endless constructions are undergoing as plenty of land they have, cheap constructional materials and labor they offer, which more or less boost their competitive power and attracts overseas developers to place investment in which they would make favourable profit) their economy is super booming and they've yet reached the peak.  Many more people are living wealthily, yet all these only limit to some major cities like Beijing, Shianghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc.  People in some rural provinces are still living below poverty line.  The gap between the rich and the poor in China is tremendously huge and that's devastating.  For instance, people in major cities making RMB1000 a month can be income of 2 years of some domestic workers in rural provinces.

Actually China's case is way similiar to India's.  I would like to know more about all these fast leaping developing countries too. 

kamspp


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## tigger_uhuhu

Mmmm.... una vez estuve en China, pero era muy pequeño, fue en 1992 y yo tenía 10 años. Ahora recuerdo muy poco pero era diferente a lo que cuenta Maika. Recuerdo, por ejemplo, en la muralla, los baños eran como "letrinas", pequeñas ollas que están en el suelo, enterradas, ja ja ja... 
Creo que mi mente ha bloquado el recuerdo de esa época... trataré de recordar algo más...


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## Javier-Vega

I have been recently to China. Unfortunately, I visit there for only a week and a half, and due to the circumstances of the trip, I was able to see only Beijing and its immediate surroundings.

I saw a very different country that the one Maika saw 30 years ago. In fact, in many respects, in spite of the huge cultural differences, Beijing reminded me a lot of Mexico City. High pollution, traffic, huge unequality, and so on. I don´t think there is anything "communist" about the country anymore, except the name of the party in power. The economy is growing very fast, and there are many signs of that, for example, plenty of huge buildings that are built at an amazing speed. There is also a wide and prosperous middle class. However, there is also a significant proportion of the population which is dramatically falling behind. I saw some horryfing scenes of misery, terrible even by mexican standards. There is also a vast army of peddlers and other people trying to take advantadge of the tourists. I have to say, however, that I found all of them to be an extremely friendly and peaciful people.

The food is wonderful! and extremely cheap, even in the fancy restaurantes. It is really, as Maika remarks, a collection of very different regional cousines. I specially felt in love with sezchuan cuisine (which is spicy as in Mexico).
In Beijing you can also see, of course, very beautiful places such as the Forbidden City and the Summer Palace (many old neighborhoods, however, are being demolished to be replaced by ugly big buildings).


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## luis masci

Some of the questions that brings to my mind right now:

-Have Chinese young people the same negative characteristic that their fellows from occidental societies are showing today? (drugs- alcohol - violence…)
-How the HIV disease is rating in China? It could be determinant regarding the huge quantities they are.     
- Are they considering the military matter as important as used to be during so called cold war?


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## ElaineG

I just received the following e-mail from a European friend who just moved to China with his Chinese wife and their little daughter, so that his wife could be closer to her aging parents.  I'm looking forward to visiting them this summer, and exploring Chinese culture (and especially cuisine), but I found his e-mail sobering:



> Re: December 25th in China
> 
> Little Y, V and myself wish you all much peace and
> hope on this special day. This year for us December
> 25th is very different. This morning I was unable to
> take little Y to a Xmas service of any
> denomination anywhere in a city of more than 8 million
> people. This is the People's Republic of China. Any
> independent religious activity is illegal and
> considered a criminal act. There are no churches
> anywhere...
> It's one thing to read about this in the newspapers.
> It's another to suddenly realize that no, it's Xmas
> day and you cannot get together with other members of
> your community and share a moment of prayer,
> celebration and hope. And if you tried to do so the
> state would pursue you, prosecute you and imprison
> you. For a Xmas mass and some carols....


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## kamspp

what Elaine's friend says in the letter is definitely true.  On X'mas day I read a news about X'mas celebration in China.  it's like a million of people were celebrating without knowing why.  For those Christians, luckily, they're allowed to gather in a church to say a prayer, but small gathering at home is definitely forbidded.  Actually, in Beijing, there are only 11 or so churches, priests are not allowed to spread the ideas of God anywhere out of the church.


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## luis masci

On X'mas day I read a news about X'mas celebration in China. it's like a million of people were celebrating without knowing why.[/quote said:
			
		

> Well… in that case I’d say it’s the same here in occident.
> I know a lot of people who celebrate Christmas without knowing why.


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## kamspp

well I know X'mas might mean nothing more than a holiday or some fun time to somebody.  somehow I wonder why on earth I celebrated X'mas too while I'm not a Christian.

anyways, the HIV rate you mentioned in some previous posts, well, I can't tell how high the rate is, but the rate is pretty frightening, I'd say.  there are far too many veiled cases and we can never know the actual rate, I hate to say.  I guess you know how they got infected, yeah?

kamspp


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## luis masci

Well… as a matter of fact I'm realizing to ask about HIV rate in China is a question pretty pretentious. I mean… nobody, even being Chinese would know it, I’m afraid.
Another interesting question would be how marriages are working in China compared with occident. In the sense whether they are still pretty conservative or the divorce are rising as much as in this side of the world.
But I’ve little hope someone will be up to answer, really.


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## superann

Although I have never been to China, many people in Taiwan have moved to China or work there for a couple of months in a year. However, due to the high risk of their medical care, most of the people from Taiwan come back home to get medical treatment, if possible. Two years ago, when SARS was spreading furiously in China and their goverment was intending to downplay its effect, many Taiwanese people moved back to Taiwan. They said the situation there was much more serious than it appeared to be on TV because the media and public opinions were severely controlled.

Maybe China is a good place for earning money, but may not be a good place for living.

Someday I should go to China to see what it is like.


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## Quebar

luis masci said:
			
		

> Hola gente
> Ahora con la globalización, muchos países remotos han dejado de ser un misterio.
> Sin embargo, algunos se mantienen todavía como tal.
> Es lo que siento con China. ¿Alguien estuvo alguna vez allí? ¿Alguien puede contarnos algo sobre este enigmático país? No tiene que ser necesariamente sobre política sino cuestiones tales como su estándar de vida, costumbres, o aún mejor su experiencia personal allí.
> 
> Hi folks
> Now with globalization, many remote countries have left to be a mystery. However some of them still keep so. I feel its China’s case. Was anyone ever there? Does anyone to be up telling something about this puzzle country?
> It’s not necessarily about politic, but subjects such its standard of life, customs o even better his/her personal experience there.



china es uno de los paises mas poblados del mundo, lo que lleva a deducir que es uno de los paises en donde mas consumidores hay, su mano de obra es una de las mas economicas o baratas del mundo, han tenido avances tecnologicos considerables debido a inversiones extranjeras y guvernamentales, estos son algunos de los puntos mas sobresalientes en el ambito economico.
una curiosidad  china significa muralla o ciudad amurrallada.


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## Maika

Quebar said:
			
		

> china es uno de los paises mas poblados del mundo, lo que lleva a deducir que es uno de los paises en donde mas consumidores hay, su mano de obra es una de las mas economicas o baratas del mundo, han tenido avances tecnologicos considerables debido a inversiones extranjeras y guvernamentales, estos son algunos de los puntos mas sobresalientes en el ambito economico.
> una curiosidad  china significa muralla o ciudad amurrallada.




Hola Quebar,

no entendí lo último: "una curiosidad  china significa muralla o ciudad amurrallada"

¿qué quisiste decir ahí?


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## Jhorer Brishti

Creo que lo que queria decir Quebar es que el significado de la palabra China es "Ciudad amurrallada" en el idioma de donde proviene. Parece que si ha sido un pais aislado desde hace mucho tiempo. Todavia se cerraron las fronteras de los extranjeros en algunas epocas y dinastias.


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## Eugens

Quebar said:
			
		

> una curiosidad china significa muralla o ciudad amurrallada.


 Are you sure? I once heard a man on TV saying that China in Chinese means something like "the centre of the world". This man had apparently lived in China for several years and studied Chinese culture. He told that he himself had found out this when a Chinese friend of his saw a map that he had with him and said: "this is a very strange map." The map was a regular western planisphere, so he asked curiously, "why do do say that?" His friend replied, "because China is not in the middle."

I've done a search on the Internet and I found some websites that agree with what this man said:

_"Zhongguo_
_Central Empire (中國/中国 __pinyin__: zhōngguó) in __Mandarin_ 
_The Chinese traditionally positioned the emperor of China at the center of the world, conceiving concentric rings that extends from the cultural center to barbarlic borderlands."_
http://www.answers.com/topic/name-of-china-in-various-languages

_"The Chinese call their country Zhong Guo, meaning Middle Country. The ancient Chinese thought of their country as both the geographical center of the world and the only cultured civilization. The name China was given to the country by foreigners." _http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/home.html

_"The Chinese call their country Zhongguo, which means Middle Country. (...) The English name China probably came from Qin «chihn», the name of an early Chinese dynasty (series of rulers from the same family)."_
http://www.aolsvc.worldbook.aol.com/wb/Article?id=ar111400

_"China's very name is composed of ideographs meaning "center" and "country" respectively, and traditional Chinese world maps show China in the center."_
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglocentrism


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## Jhorer Brishti

Eugens, I just did some etymological research(quick search in dictionary) to discover that the word China in referring to the Country is derived from "Qin" as in Qin dynasty. For some reason I doubt Qin in chinese meant walled city. I can confirm that the chinese word for their country does indeed mean the center of the world or something akin. This is nothing unusual considering that most maps(American ones at least) place Europe in the Center with the American continents(can someone please explain to me how North America is physically separated from South America since they're both considered two separate continents?) in the west and Asia in the east. Our modern notions of the four cardinal directions is also eurocentric branding terms such as "The Far East,Orient,Middle East, Westernization,etc. These are all of course subjective and firmly planted in a viewpoint of the world from a European/American standpoint...


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## CrazyIvan

luis masci said:
			
		

> Well… as a matter of fact I'm realizing to ask about HIV rate in China is a question pretty pretentious. I mean… nobody, even being Chinese would know it, I’m afraid.
> Another interesting question would be how marriages are working in China compared with occident. In the sense whether they are still pretty conservative or the divorce are rising as much as in this side of the world.
> But I’ve little hope someone will be up to answer, really.


 
   While everybody talking about China in these days, they would consider it as a single nation. However, things can be very different from provinces to provinces. That is why sometimes it is very difficult to understand this nation. If you break it into several regions, you may have a clearer picture about how Chinese, or Chinese culture, is like.

   Take your question, about marriage, for example. In big cities, where foreign direct investment flowing in as western cultures, people can accumulate their wealth and obtain more information from the world. As a result, they will tend to have more liberal attitude toward gender issues, or I should say, sex. Especially the young generation in these days may care rather leisure than marriage. If my memory is right, there is a book talking about a woman who have sex for enjoyment and wrote down each ONS she had for a certain period( say, a year?) In that book, you can get the picture that ethics may no longer be a strong rules or obligation for modern chinese people. However, this attitude may worsen the HIV rates and spread the epidemic faster than we thought along the coastal area and big manufactoring cities.

   In rural areas, people have limited information about how this world progress.Most of them are still trust what they are told. Therefore, they would be rather conservative. However, poverty drives them to do all things which can earn money. They are infected through blood transfusion. (which is a terrible and notorious case in Henan provice, the AIDS village)

   I hope my short reply can help you get some ideas about how this nation is truly like. And I believe there will be some more people can amend my ideas or even revise it with more thorough understanding.


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## Quebar

china es un pais que se ha levantado de politicas establecidas por el comunismo, ahora que se ha vuelto un pais mucho mas socialista, ha creado politicas de comercio exterior que han enriquecido al pais, su poder comercial ha aumentado grandemente, su problema creo que es el buscar un equilibrio entre la inflacion la cual aumenta con aumento de la cantidad de dinero circulante dentro del mercado financiero, y las tasas de desempleo que cada vez son mayores debido que por la cantidad de gente que hay la poblacion en edad de trabajar se incrementa el desempleo. muchos paises han tomado a china como sede para abrir empresas y como sitio estrategico para incremento de ventas.


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## luis masci

Thank you Quevar and KrazyIvan for the information. 
I know what you mean Ivan, China is a huge country and customs and way of life certainly bound to be varying very much from rural regions to big cities. 
Quever, tu aporte es sin duda interesante y seguramente ilustrativo para muchos; pero me temo que es la información que se maneja en el mundo sobre China. Quiero decir que es una visión externa y lo que estoy procurando es una visión interna. Por ejemplo como dije en una de las primeras postas, un chino me contó que el gobierno solo permite tener un hijo por pareja. Pero no me dijo si eso efectivamente se cumple, como hace el  gobierno para controlar que se cumpla, que sucede si una mujer vuelve a embarazarse, etc.


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## Maika

Two separate continents? How? Who says?

It's only one continent, geographically speaking.

Continent: America
Divisions: North America, Central America, South America

I didn't understand that about two continents, clarify pls



			
				Maika said:
			
		

> Two separate continents? How? Who says?
> 
> It's only one continent, geographically speaking.
> 
> Continent: America
> Divisions: North America, Central America, South America
> 
> I didn't understand that about two continents, clarify pls




Sorry, this question was for Johrer


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## stop

Maika said:
			
		

> Two separate continents? How? Who says?
> 
> It's only one continent, geographically speaking.
> 
> Continent: America
> Divisions: North America, Central America, South America
> 
> I didn't understand that about two continents, clarify pls


Not being a geologist, I don't know how a continent is defined "scientifically" (or even if such a definition exists), but when you look at an atlas (just as land and sea, ignoring any political divisions), North and South America appear as two separate land masses joined by a thin stretch of land, in the same way that Africa appears as a distinct land mass joined to what we know as Asia, whose separateness from (the continent of?) Europe is not even noticeable.
I don't think that is hard to understand, although neither is it difficult to guess what you really mean when you say "Two separate continents? How? *Who says*?"


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## Quebar

otro dato acerca de china es que la libertad de cultos esta un poco rezagada, o limitada, sin embargo a comparacion a otros años las personas que vivin alli estan teniendo una mayor libertad de expresar su fe, sin ser perseguidos o amenazados.

china es uno de los paises que mas murallas tienen, lo cual la hacia casi imposible de invadirla, esto era ventjoso para le exterior, pero en su interior todas estas diviciones dañaban la relacion entre las dinastias que en ese tiempo estaban regidas por un emperador, una de las dinastias mas famosas es la dinastia ming.


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## Jhorer Brishti

Maika, In the USA we are generally taught save for a few private schools that there are 7 continents which are as follows: North America, South America, Asia,Europe, Africa, Australia, and Antarctica. Antarctica to me is only a humongous block of ice. The Americas are connected to each other and I also fail to see how Europe is separated from Asia. I think Africa is semi-connected to Saudi-Arabia. This is only an overview of land geographical formations.. I wonder how it would really look if we only took whole tectonic plates in consideration.


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## Hakro

Jhorer Brishti said:
			
		

> In the USA we are generally taught save for a few private schools that there are 7 continents which are as follows: North America, South America, Asia,Europe, Africa, Australia, and Antarctica. Antarctica to me is only a humongous block of ice. The Americas are connected to each other and I also fail to see how Europe is separated from Asia. I think Africa is semi-connected to Saudi-Arabia. This is only an overview of land geographical formations.. I wonder how it would really look if we only took whole tectonic plates in consideration.


 I think that today it's useless to discuss about continents. We are all on the same planet and it's not so big anymore. It's the global business and the global pollution all over the world.
The biggest problem about China is not the communism but the capitalism. They want to get foreign currency by selling industrial products cheaper than any other country. If they get it, more than a billion Chinese want to buy a car sooner or later. If you think about the education level of an average Chinese you can understand what this means.


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## Liambeiwai

I am Chinese.
       It makes me surprise to find a post talking about China.
       I grow up in Xi'an and currently study in Beijing. Beijing is a modern city, but the biggest problems are pollution, crowding and inequality. Have you ever taken a bus in Beijing's rush hour? You will feel like you are becoming condensed biscuits, all you can find are people.
        I really hope that we can solve this problem. By the way, hope you can tell me your impressions of China, better in English.


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## luis masci

Welcome Liambeiwai. I think a Chinese citizen would be the most indicated person to answer this post. 
I want to do a concrete question for you; already I did it in Spanish so right now I’m going to try doing it in English.
A countryman of you told me that each couple only is allowed to have one child. If it’s so, how does the government to assure it’s really obeyed, being China as vast and populated land as it indeed is?
What is happening if a woman has got another pregnancy? 

P.S. Excuse me the bad English


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## Liambeiwai

Hola.
     It's the few Spanish words I know.
     First of all, usually most couples are only allowed to have one child, but there are some exceptions:
     1  Minority Groups, usually they can have more than one child.
     2  International marriage 
     3  If the first children died or had a incurable illness, they could have a second child.
     4  Twins or more
     In the past, some provincial governments or local governments used to punish those who had more than one, but now they didn't use punishment. Instead, they give bonus to those who only had one.
     But actually this policy isn't quite effective in rural areas. I think you can imagine the situation if we don't control the population. In urban areas, the trend is some couples even don't want to have a child.
     Is my answer satisfying?
     Adios.


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## luis masci

Well Liambeiwai… at least you know some Spanish words, I can’t write anything in Chinese. 
Yes it’s satisfying at least for me; seems to me Chinese government has softened its posture at least in this field, according what you tell us. 
Taking advantage you are so kind I’d like to do some more question, hopping you (or eventually anyone else) would be up to answer.
-Is the abortion legal in China? (Given the circumstances I suppose it’s so)
-Is it true any religion issue is not allowed in China?
-Is military training mandatory for all Chinese citizens? 
-Is HIV issue considering a big problem in China? Are most Chinese aware of it?
-Is the drug addiction as spreading in China as it indeed is in occident?


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## Dalian

Hola, luis masci. I'm from China too. I'll have a try in answering your questions...


> Is the abortion legal in China?


yes.


> Is it true any religion issue is not allowed in China?


It's not that extreme. I'd say religious issues are strictly restricted in China (which I hate to admit), but not absolutely banned. It's true that average citizens are not encouraged to believe in any religion or talk about religious issues.


> Is military training mandatory for all Chinese citizens?


No. At least I haven't gone through any training in a military unit.


> Is HIV issue considering a big problem in China? Are most Chinese aware of it?


Sometimes we saw news on HIV issue...But I believe most of our countrymen are not fully aware of this issue, and we hardly know the statistics on how serious this problem is now in China.


> Is the drug addiction as spreading in China as it indeed is in occident?


As you might have known, we seldom hear news about the dark side of the society. I don't know exactly how fast it is spreading or whether it is spreading at all. But I'm afraid it is indeed spreading, especially in more developed areas.

There are indeed many problems in China, but I'm aware that our government is 'softening its posture' in family control, religious and military issues, and making progress in penalizing corruption. I sincerely hope those who are curious about China will come here and experience the life here by yourself
If you have further questions, please feel free to ask.

Saludos,
Dalian


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## Liambeiwai

Hello
    The friend in Dalian has given you very good explanations, I can add some specific details.
     1  Military training issue: I think it depends on how you understand the term "military training". Usually college students need to stay in military camp for just one month, I don't know whether you can call that military training.
     2  Drug addiciton issue:  Even from our national report,the number of our durg addicts that have registered is increasing. I remember when I traveled to Yunnan province, I just saw lots of peddlers selling cocaine(the locals told me it was a drug later on). I think it's a big problem, although we gave drug dealers severe punishment.
     I hope foriengers won't treat China as a special state, we are the same as you, like me, I like soccer, basketball etc.
     Luis, hope Argentina can get a good result in World Cup 2006, Vamos.
     Adios.


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## nitad54448

Eugens said:
			
		

> _"China's very name is composed of ideographs meaning "center" and "country" respectively, and traditional Chinese world maps show China in the center."_
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglocentrism



Indeed, the first chinese character (kanji) for China is "middle" or "center" both in chinese and in japanese (and sometimes China is called "l'empire du milieu").
As for the maps, the japanese maps are similar, with Japan in center, they are strange looking maps for europeans.  
Regards


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## CrazyIvan

Liambeiwai said:
			
		

> I am Chinese.
> It makes me surprise to find a post talking about China.
> I grow up in Xi'an and currently study in Beijing. Beijing is a modern city, but the biggest problems are pollution, crowding and inequality. Have you ever taken a bus in Beijing's rush hour? You will feel like you are becoming condensed biscuits, all you can find are people.
> I really hope that we can solve this problem. By the way, hope you can tell me your impressions of China, better in English.


 
Dear my Chinese Fellow, 

I have been Shanghai once and made a 10 day stay over there. I expericed quite a different scope of life over there, from the rush hour bus, crowded central station ( that was just before Oct. 1st holidays) and prosperous development in Pudon Area and other surroudning indursty cities ( such as Quanshan?, I am not sure about the spelling). The interesting blend between old and new buildings impress me a lot.

Yet, I found the the wealth gap may be most urgent problem for nowaday chinese. I got two very impressive examples during my stay in Shanghai. First, I saw some people, who are obviously not employeed, are standing on the street with all their gears and pasting a paper as some sort of "résumé" in front of their chest, saying that they are good at construction or mechanics or things like that. I felt sad to see it since China has a history of "self-slaving," selling oneself just for the living. This sight just reminded me so much about what I read on textbook in junior high school.

The other things is the apathy toward poverty, especially among the youth. While walking on people's square in Shanghai, an old lady with wore-off rug collecting bottles in the trash can. She is very old, I got to tell you, and all she need just few coins for her daily living. However, I saw quite a few chinese girls just passed by but giving no attention toward that lady, or, I should say, that young lady just seems invisible to them. Moreover, some of them even looked at her with a disgusted looking. Those girls are all dressed in fashion and they are ready to shop more, but how come they do not give a sympathy to the weak in the society. I do not get it.

My stay is short so I could not have a thorough understanding of these social phenomenons. Hopefully all these situation are only existed in this transition period for chinese to be more prosperous.


----------



## luis masci

First of all I want to say thank you to Dalian and Liambeiwai for the answers. 



			
				Dalian said:
			
		

> I sincerely hope those who are curious about China will come here and experience the life here by yourself
> If you have further questions, please feel free to ask.
> Saludos,
> Dalian



Hehe…me too, but it’s not so simple, I’m afraid. At least for me. 
Since Argentinean money was devaluated I can’t travel even to any neighbor country anymore. 
By the way, I have another question if you don’t mind: 
Are computers and internet becoming popular in China? I mean, are there computers in any school, library,locutory and eventually any home?



			
				Liambeiwai said:
			
		

> Luis, hope Argentina can get a good result in World Cup 2006, Vamos.
> Adios.


I hope the same my good friend; but as a matter of fact I’d tell you it’s a secondary hope for me. The priority continues being our social, political and economical situation.   

Saludos
Luis


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## Dalian

luis masci said:
			
		

> Hehe…me too, but it’s not so simple, I’m afraid. At least for me.
> Since Argentinean money was devaluated I can’t travel even to any neighbor country anymore.
> By the way, I have another question if you don’t mind:
> Are computers and internet becoming popular in China? I mean, are there computers in any school, library,locutory and eventually any home?
> 
> Saludos
> Luis


Hola~to address your question regarding computers and internet, my answer is definitely yes. Especially in bigger and more developed cities in China, most schools and libraries are equipped with computers and people have easy access to the internet. There is a pretty high percentage of households owning a computer in big cities. To give an example that might surprise you, every seat in every classroom in my university is connected with the internet, and every student in my university owns a laptop, so they can study in a more effective and modern way. But as you know, in the rural and underdeveloped part, especially in West China, where the standard of living is still low, the popularization of computers still has much to improve.

Greetings,
Dalian


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## luis masci

Thank you Dalian. What you have told is very interesting and yes, what you are  telling about your university is really surprisingly for me. I always had wondered why barely I just came across a few Chinese persons in internet, being you a huge quantity as you are. 
There’re  a lot of unknowing and misinformation in occident about China, that is the reason I opened this thread seeing there’re some Chinese people here, as you and Liambeiwai who can help us to put lighting  on this matter.  

Regards
Luis


----------



## Dalian

Luis,

It's been my pleasure to tell you something about my country. And it is also my knowledge that there is much misunderstanding about China in the West, so I'll be glad to reveal the true picture in China. Although there are a huge number of people surfing on the net in China, they don't usually go to international websites partly due to their limited ability of international languages (like English). I think that's probably why you met with so few Chinese on line. But if you could have a look at our Chinese websites and forums...you'd see the population of netizens are really big, and they're very active. 
One thing I don't like about some Chinese young people around me is that they spend great amount of time online just playing online games...Some of them use the net only to play games day and night, forgetting all about their health and study...I'm sickened of this, jeje. I don't know whether the same thing happens in your place as well. 

Have a nice day!
Dalian


----------



## luis masci

Liambeiwai said:
			
		

> Military training issue: I think it depends on how you understand the term "military training". Usually college students need to stay in military camp for just one month, I don't know whether you can call that military training.


 
Well Liambeiwai, a Chinese girl told me she was in  military training; so I thought it should be mandatory for all male and female Chinese, I don’t know if I was wrong.
On other hand that would not be weird at all, because many countries have a period of military training (you may see the thread titled “Servicio Militar” in this forum) 



			
				Dalian said:
			
		

> One thing I don't like about some Chinese young people around me is that they spend great amount of time online just playing online games...Some of them use the net only to play games day and night, forgetting all about their health and study...I'm sickened of this, jeje. I don't know whether the same thing happens in your place as well.


 
Dalian, for sure here it’s the same. I also get sick seeing them playing like a crazy these games all the time. 
It’s amazing to see similarities exist about your countrymen and mines, despite China and Argentina are too different each other.


----------



## CrazyIvan

A friend from Shantung (a province of China) told me that actually the military service is mandatory....However, in these years Chinese government is downsiding their military, so they would recuite everyone.

Then, who are going to military? They will select through the following procedures,

1. If a man/woman decide to keep studying, they can postpone their service. Which means, until the day you graduate from school, you are eligible for military training.

2. As I said before, they are not recruiting everyone....so, people who are eligible for military serice would need a draw. Only those who won the "lottory" can go to military.

But there is very interesting phenomenon. Because government provide free accomodation and food in military, people who have relative poor economy condition are quite eager to go for it. So, some of them even have to "flex the connection muscle" to get into military.

That is what I heard 

About addiction of online game.Except for Europe and those places without internet connection, ( I have lived there for one year and found they are not that addicted to internet and online games) I am afraid this situation is all the same around the world. It is really sad that they spend most of their time on net rather than some productive activities.


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## luis masci

CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> About addiction of online game.Except for Europe and those places without internet connection, ( I have lived there for one year and found they are not that addicted to internet and online games) I am afraid this situation is all the same around the world. It is really sad that they spend most of their time on net rather than some productive activities.


 
In this point I must admit women seem to be more mature than us. As you surely have noticed most of the “games addicts” are males. I can see clearly it, here in my city  when I go to any cyber coffee; boys playing on line games while girls are doing better use of internet. Also we can see definitively most addicts to pornographies and stuff like that are men.  But it’s subject for another thread , don’t you think so?  ​


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## CrazyIvan

luis masci said:
			
		

> In this point I must admit women seem to be more mature than us. As you surely have noticed most of the “games addicts” are males. I can see clearly it, here in my city when I go to any cyber coffee; boys playing on line games while girls are doing better use of internet. Also we can see definitively most addicts to pornographies and stuff like that are men. But it’s subject for another thread , don’t you think so?
> 
> ​


 

I think you are right, Luis Masci. Internet culture and the usage ( or I should say, abuse?) of internet would be a good topic of different thread. I will open it and please friends here can join that thread for further discussion 

By the way, stick to China topic.. I read an article on NYtimes last night talking about the fashion in China. According to this report, it said that Korean style of fashion is getting popular in Bejing and other Northern cities. Is that true? How about soap operas and music and other medium of culture? Do Chinese people openly embrace new cultures coming into their life?


----------



## Dalian

CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> By the way, stick to China topic.. I read an article on NYtimes last night talking about the fashion in China. According to this report, it said that Korean style of fashion is getting popular in Bejing and other Northern cities. Is that true? How about soap operas and music and other medium of culture? Do Chinese people openly embrace new cultures coming into their life?


Yes, Korean style of fashion is really popular here. Many boys and girls are crazy about Korean pop stars and soap operas. And many of them color their hair and are dressed like Koreans, some even trying from time to time to learn some Korean language, just to sound cool.
The young generation of Chinese are indeed openly and enthusiastically embracing foreign cultures. It seems to me that Christmas is now becoming a national festival, since many Chinese people are celebrating it, but without knowing why. In contrast, many Chinese youngsters are forgetting about our own traditions and cultures. Traditional Chinese arts like Peking opera, Chinese calligraphy, comic dialogue (xiangsheng) etc are no longer popular with young people. Our traditional festivals like Mid-autumn festival, Dragon boat festival (Duan Wu), Chongyang Jie (the 9th day of the 9th month in lunar calendar) etc are giving way to Valentine's day, Thanksgiving and Christmas. I feel it is a sad thing.


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## peubanni

Talking about "Korean style" -- I wonder if Chinese youngsters are embracing Korean culture as a foreign one, or something more familiar.

Korean style (Kan-ryu, or 韓流) is hugely popular here in Japan too, except the fact that the age bracket to which it is appealling the most is a bit older (soap opera fans in 40s to 60s), and that men don't seem to care as much as women do. And as far as I know, some of those extreme nationalist young guys go so far as to advocate (somewhat failingly) anti-Korean-style (Ken-kan-ryu 嫌韓流), while some anti-nationalist others are insisting on anti-"anti-Korean-style" (Ken-ken-kan-ryu 嫌嫌韓流), and you know, they can go on anti-anti-anti-Korean-style and so forth, for ever and ever, the discussion is getting rather muddy and confused. 

I must add that real Ken-kan-ryu lads are very very few in number, it still doesn't seem to go beyond fads on the net. Still I found it both perplexing and interesting that some of us are actually having fear against the influx of foreign culture, especially when it's coming from Korea, the country very next to ours, and share a lot of things in common including physical features of people, history, (some) language, and even culture itself. It's not too hard to understand what xenophobias fear of, when their culture inheritage is "invaded" by, say, Martians. But those Japanese nationalists don't seem to pay too much attention to the influence from West, which should have been in many ways far more drastic, shocking, and far-reaching than the recent one from Korea.

And I wonder, is this same thing happening in China? Maybe it's just Japanese because geographically speaking we are on little islets, while Chinese and Korean both live happily on the same Continent? Also I know that there are about 2,000,000 Korean-Chinese (朝鮮族) living inside the Chinese border. So, how do you Chinese recognise Korea? Does it appear "foreign" to Chinese people at large? If so, do you think it as "a sad thing" that young people are into Korean culture?


----------



## Dalian

Hi peubanni, for all the geographic adjacence and existence of Korean-Chinese, we still recognise Korean culture as a foreign one. As you probably know, the Korean-Chinese inside our border mainly inhabit Northeast China. A large number of them live within Korean communities where they keep their culture and seldom influence the outside, and all we know about them still remains at a few traditional songs like 'Do-ra-ji' and some traditional Korean food. Or some of the Chinese-Koreans are scattered among Chinese (Han nationality) and become assimilated by Chinese culture. Therefore, the culture of Korean-Chinese is largely introverted, and in the eyes of the average Chinese people, the torrential income of 'modern' Korean style is still (and generally indeed) from outside our border.

The fanaticism about Korean style (in our language we have the same expression '韓流') and the fear against it also exist in China, just like what's happening in Japan.


----------



## CrazyIvan

Dalian said:
			
		

> Yes, Korean style of fashion is really popular here. Many boys and girls are crazy about Korean pop stars and soap operas. And many of them color their hair and are dressed like Koreans, some even trying from time to time to learn some Korean language, just to sound cool.


 
Thank you for sharing, Dalian. It seems that Korean are really promote themselves well in terms of entertainment industry. In the past, it used to be Hong Kong or Japan playing this rule as entertainment leader...I guess it changes to Korean's hands.

By the way, talking about Hong Kong....Doesn't Hong Konger's way of style no longer a way of fashion in China now? How about local stars in China..? I knew that "the super girl voices" ( sorry, i just directly translate that event... It must have a official name of it..) created quite a hit in China. So, you must have some sort of local stars, right?


----------



## CrazyIvan

peubanni said:
			
		

> Korean style (Kan-ryu, or 韓流) is hugely popular here in Japan too, except the fact that the age bracket to which it is appealling the most is a bit older (soap opera fans in 40s to 60s),


 
On the trip to Korea last summer (2005), I went to visit my korean friends with my Japenese friend.My Japanese friend surprised me while he bought a Korea star poster for, uh, his mom..... He told me that his mom is like a teenager while watching Korean movies or stars.....you just reminded me of that scene with this statement, peubanni... 



> And as far as I know, some of those extreme nationalist young guys go so far as to advocate (somewhat failingly) anti-Korean-style (Ken-kan-ryu 嫌韓流), while some anti-nationalist others are insisting on anti-"anti-Korean-style" (Ken-ken-kan-ryu 嫌嫌韓流), and you know, they can go on anti-anti-anti-Korean-style and so forth, for ever and ever, the discussion is getting rather muddy and confused.


 
I would say most of discussion involving nationalism would easily lose the origin focus. However, I would say it is hard to take historical elements out of culture discussion. I believe that a culture is an accumulation of the past, which means history. 



> I must add that real Ken-kan-ryu lads are very very few in number, it still doesn't seem to go beyond fads on the net.


 
The true "anti" something are always small in number, but they create huge buzz....which bothers people and obstracts more understanding between different nations..... 




> Still I found it both perplexing and interesting that some of us are actually having fear against the influx of foreign culture, especially when it's coming from Korea, the country very next to ours, and share a lot of things in common including physical features of people, history, (some) language, and even culture itself.


 
Maybe this fear comes from their resentment against Japanese as well..(?)
Although I doubt how many Korean people would still hold that resentment still nowadays.



> It's not too hard to understand what xenophobias fear of, when their culture inheritage is "invaded" by, say, Martians. But those Japanese nationalists don't seem to pay too much attention to the influence from West, which should have been in many ways far more drastic, shocking, and far-reaching than the recent one from Korea.


 
Western cultures have long mingled with Japanese culture.(since 16th century with spanish and dutch and later the open of port to America.)
In the early 20th century, some people in Asian considered Japan is a model of "westernization," which went along with modern industries and parliment-politics. Although I have no idea how most Japanese people think about their past, I believe some people must believe western cultures bring more benefits than harms on Japan.


----------



## Dalian

CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> Thank you for sharing, Dalian. It seems that Korean are really promote themselves well in terms of entertainment industry. In the past, it used to be Hong Kong or Japan playing this rule as entertainment leader...I guess it changes to Korean's hands.
> 
> By the way, talking about Hong Kong....Doesn't Hong Konger's way of style no longer a way of fashion in China now? How about local stars in China..? I knew that "the super girl voices" ( sorry, i just directly translate that event... It must have a official name of it..) created quite a hit in China. So, you must have some sort of local stars, right?


Yes, Hong Kong and Taiwan's entertainment circle has always been very popular and influential in Mainland China...and now Korea is indeed grabbing some of Hong Kong and Taiwan's share.

The 'Super girls' (we just call them 超女, and I don't know the official translation either ) were really a huge hit in China last year. Many ordinary girls make super stars, and still many more become 'super girls' fanatics.

As for myself, I have no particular interest in local stars. My favorite is Faye Wong , who is generally considered a Hong Kong star although she was born in Beijing and married a mainland actor. And who's your star, Ivan?


----------



## luis masci

Hi
I have followed your conversation and seem me as if we are living in a separated world.
It’s new for me to know that Korea has a great influence in the zone. I suppose you are talking about South Korea. 
I have not idea who the stars that you have named are. I really don’t know any singer from Orient but maybe it’s just me because I’m quite clueless really.
I wonder if you know some from Occident. For example some very known stars as Madonna or Michel Jackson (USA). Also I’d say some Latin singers as Luis Miguel (Mexico) or Enrique Iglesias (Spain) but I doubt they are known even beyond of the Latin world.


----------



## wuya1019

haaah Dear Brishiti:
actually, many years ago China always isolate from the world, so chinese thought that China is the center of the world............
haaaah , at that time, many countries around china all came to  pay intribute.


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## CrazyIvan

luis masci said:
			
		

> Hi
> I have followed your conversation and seem me as if we are living in a separated world.


 
jaja, sorry, Luis Masci. Though that was you start this thread, but we East people take it over in these days..



> It’s new for me to know that Korea has a great influence in the zone. I suppose you are talking about South Korea.


 
yes, while talking about fashion, we refers to South Korea. But I believe North Korea to some extent also can have influence on China, either politically or economically.( or, China has influence over N. Korea...I heard that lots of Chinese are actually investing into N. Korea.) In early 2005, some N. Korean trying to run into foreign ambassy in Bejing in searching for political asylum shocked both nations and made bilateral relationship become.... well, nervous?  I guess I will leave this for Chinese to talk in details. 



> I have not idea who the stars that you have named are. I really don’t know any singer from Orient but maybe it’s just me because I’m quite clueless really.


 
Though people say "music is borderless,"  but it does have some continental restraint as we see here... These singers we are just talking about are all famous in, well, at least in Chinese speaking regions.



> Also I’d say some Latin singers as Luis Miguel (Mexico) or Enrique Iglesias (Spain) but I doubt they are known even beyond of the Latin world.


 
yes, yes...for me I do know those singer. I have been in Europe that then I love spanish music soo~~~~~~ much. I would name some singers to see if we know some players in common except for those above. Eros Ramazzotti, Amaral, Los oreja de Vaugh.... 

And aslo I got a song talking about Maradona sung by Andres Calamaro, I love that one because the tone is so funny... I believe you know this song as well.


----------



## ampurdan

La Oreja de Van Gogh... Well, well. I wouldn't have guessed. It's not so listened in Spain... (But now I remember that they made some Asian tours...).

I find this thread extremely interesting.

One question, do you Chinese use Roman alphabet sometimes to write in your own languages?


----------



## Francesca_zhou

I can't understand spanish,but i'm a native chinese,now the chineses have changed a lot


----------



## virtdave

It is reported in the USA press that the ratio of male births to female births in China has dramatically increased, due to a cultural preference for sons and the wide availability of prenatal ultrasound , and abortion (apparently the same is true in India)...would any of the people from China comment on this? It sure would seem that a whole lot of young men are going to have trouble finding wives (though I don't suppose that is why computer games are so much more popular among young men than among young women, the same thing seems true in the USA)


----------



## Dalian

ampurdan said:
			
		

> One question, do you Chinese use Roman alphabet sometimes to write in your own languages?


 
Hola ampurdan,

We usually use Roman alphabet only to show how a Chinese character is pronounced, as when we teach a child or a Chinese learner how to read correctly. And we call this set of phonetic scheme _pinyin_. Otherwise we write in Chinese orthography.
Hope this answers your question.


----------



## luis masci

ampurdan said:
			
		

> La Oreja de Van Gogh... Well, well. I wouldn't have guessed. It's not so listened in Spain... (But now I remember that they made some Asian tours...).


Well Ampurdan...I can tell you that here the group “La oreja de Van- Gogh” is well known too. At the point that even me know them. 



			
				CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> And aslo I got a song talking about Maradona sung by Andres Calamaro, I love that one because the tone is so funny... I believe you know this song as well.


Yes I’ve heard the song of Maradona by Andrés Calamaro. About this Argentinean singer, I have noticed he is quite known away. I guess it’s so due he spent a lot of time in Spain. 
Some time someone from US asked me the meaning of the letter some Calamaro’s song. 
When I saw it, I was as puzzled as this person. I couldn’t help him because the letter seemed out of any sense. Maybe this letter was written during some of his hard nights, since he has recognized his drug addiction.  
Lately Calamaro is come back in this country and I have heard some good songs among his last works. I hope he found the way to re-organize his life, really.


​


----------



## belén

luis masci said:
			
		

> Well Ampurdan...I can tell you that here the group “La oreja de Van- Gogh” is well known too. At the point that even me know them.
> 
> 
> Yes I’ve heard the song of Maradona by Andrés Calamaro. About this Argentinean singer, I have noticed he is quite known away. I guess it’s so due he spent a lot of time in Spain.
> Some time someone from US asked me the meaning of the letter some Calamaro’s song.
> When I saw it, I was as puzzled as this person. I couldn’t help him because the letter seemed out of any sense. Maybe this letter was written during some of his hard nights, since he has recognized his drug addiction.
> Lately Calamaro is come back in this country and I have heard some good songs among his last works. I hope he found the way to re-organize his life, really.



Please be so kind to not deviate from the original topic of this thread: China.

Belén


----------



## Shmily

No puedo opinar mucho ya que no seria justo opinar sobre algo que no conozco del todo. Mi opinion puede variar mucho para un nativo que esta viviendo enchina, pero la experiencia de estar viviendo en europa me ayuda a comparar muchos aspectos.

Soy nativa de China y como muchos chinos que estamos fuera de nuestro país estamos muy unidos a nuestras raíces y nos sentimos muy cerca de nuestra tierra natal estemos donde estemos. Quizas muchos nos ven como que solo nos comunicamos con los de nuestra 'especie' , pero no es asi , no en mi generacion, tratamos de ganar la vida como cualquier otro humildemente, y integramos lo maximo que podemos. 

Hay muchos prejuicios sobre nosotros, quizas por desconocimiento y misterio. Me sorprende mucho cuando me preguntan si seguimos vistiendo 'qipao' o comemos 'ratas' >.<

 Pero no deberia seguir asi, porque creemos que todos son iguales en el fondo. 

China desde punto de vista exterior , esta muy occidentalizado a cuanto 'aspecto visual', edificios, rascacielos,grandes supermercados (carrefour,dia..etc) ,centros comerciales, muchos amigos extranjeros que frecuentan mi pais se quedan amaravillados de lo que 'ven' . Algo dice que esta tan adornada la ciudad por las millones de luces de neón que parece que estemos en NAVIDAD todos los días.

 La juventud de hoy el dia les gustan mucho seguir la moda occidental, y muchos dominan mejor el idioma inglés que chino por hecho de que es el idioma internacional tambien porque se considera ' IN' . El ritmo de vida es accelerado, todos trabajan estudian mucho porque hay muchísima competitividad en la sociedad, si no avanzas te quedas atras. 

La familia es el tronco principal , digamos que lo que se rige en casa es mucho más rigido que en paises europeos. Y los padres son muy respetados y queridos por los hijos, y como casi todos somos hijos únicos ( por la ley) , los padres trabajan mucho para conseguir la felicidad de los hijos ( creo que eso en todas partes) . Y un punto destacado es que en cuanto a los bienes materiales no clasificamos lo que es del padre o del hijo, no existe eso de que el hijo tenga que pagar el alquiler al padre, o prestar dinero al padre o viceversa, ya que es común, si padre tiene 2 piso, 1 es para el hijo naturalmente...etc generalmente es así.

En el tema de amor , somos muy clasicos y cuando somos jovenes nos guiamos  más por los sentimientos y  mientras que los mayores se fijan más en requisitos exteriores( piso, coche, fisico) . Pero creemos que siempre gana el amor frente a esos conflictos. 

En cuanto al ocio, creo que hay más movimiento , no me refiero vida nocturna, sino sitios como Karaoke KTV, tee-pub, cine con salones para parejas, salones de comedor individuales, Night clubs( para bailar, punto de encuentro, no más) ......( creo que me dejo mucha cosa...) 

Lo que hay que destacar es que el dinero mueve mucho en nuestra sociedad, sobretodo en grandes ciudades, se nota mucho, la gente es más materialista y fría ante los pobres.

Como muchos han comentado en los canales televisivos dominan las dramas coreanas, japonesas, taiwainesas y chinas . Y muchisimos programas de ocio. Y la gente joven mayor, no tan mayor tantos hombres como mujeres les gustan mucho esta especie de entretenimiento ya que hay clases para todo: drama de artes marciales, drama romantica, drama detective...etc

Sobre la gastronomia, la comida chinaes muy variada depende de la zona, y hablar de negocios en la mesa es considerado como algo muy normal. Existe salones individualizados para grupos. Y de clases de comida hay muchísimos, tambien fast-food es bien recibida en china, los niños les encantan, y la juventad también. Los restaurantes francés , italianos, españoles es considerados sitios romanticos reservado para parejas y normalmente el coste es muy elevado. Y los restaurante chinos también hay de muchas categorias, desde las más lujosas hasta las que se puede comer en la calle al aire libre . 

La hora de desayunar es más o menos entre 7 y 9 am, de comer entre 11-13am, y de cenar entre 7-9pm.


En cuanto al vestuario, no hay mucha diferencia,aunque hay que destacar que la ropa es muy estilo occidental, y seguimos mucho tambien la moda europea por ejemplo este invierno me han comentado que domina la Moda victoriana y moda militar . como aquí en España también. 
Las mujeres en grandes ciudades son muy bien tratadas, se dice que quiza haya femenismo , ya que los hombres normalmente ejercen las tareas de casa más o menos como la mujer. La mujer se cuida más, y hay millones de centro de adelgazanmiento que garantiza adelgazar hasta 5 kilos en un mes con tecnologia realmente avanzada: maquina que producen calor...etc, muchiimos centro de estetica, muchos centros de operacion cirurgica. 

En cuanto al uso de Internet, hay muchísimos cybercafé de grandes areas en toda ciudad, y mucha gente usa para jugar juegos online, hacer amistad . 

Todo lo que he descrito es a grandes rasgos , generalizando muchísimo , ya que siempre cada persona es un mundo y no todos siguen la norma general.


----------



## kevinleihuang

It is glad to see that people here in this forum would like to know more about China, my motherland. And it is my pleasure to share with the friends here with my knowledge on China.

Actually, though China is a fast developing country and plays a critical role in the world stage, most of the Chinese, perhaps 80% or even more of the whole population, are not aware of the present status China has been in. What common people care about most is how to lead a better life or how to lead a better career. Only a small part of the people who have been highly educated, I mean ones with a Bachelor degree at least, care about the international role China has now played in the complicated situation, in which some powerful countries are not willing to let China become too strong to be a potential threat. Take the people around me for example. I just got my bachelor degree in management from one of the famous universities located in East China. I am interested in politics and international relations. But few friends around me prefer to talking about issues referring to the economic development or political issues. What they usually talk about is how to earn more to make a better living. I do not mean this is not correct. But, I think we Chinese young men should have a world wide vision. We should care more about our country rather than our own benefits. We should care more about the development of the whole world, or someday later we would be probably left behind again.

It might be a little far away from the theme. I am trying to get back to the topic Well, as you all know, China is experiencing the most fierce competition ever in her history. There are tons of opportunities, but challenges do exist. Months ago, after revising its GDP number based on the statistical datas collected from national economic investigation, the Chinese Government announced that the GDP of 2004 is approximately 20% larger than the number posted before. What an amazing thing! Most Chinese themselves cannot believe our economy has such good status. And we do acknowledge that we still have quite a lot of problems to be solved. There are still many very very poor people around the country, not merely in the western part. One third of the whole population have in average less than US Dollar $50/month for living, while the most rich people, approximately 1% of the whole population, have in average more than US Dollar $1250/month for living. So, we still have a long way to go to fight for the better living for those poor people.

A lot of my foreign friends think that the most thing that they believe to be the gap while communicating with Chinese is the culture difference. But, it is changing. More and more Chinese teenagers tend to accept the western way of thinking, the western life style, and so on. They are fans of hip-hop, Pizza, i-Pod, Motorola & Nokia Cellphone, and etc.


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## kevinleihuang

BTW, I think the most problem we Chinese should focus on is the education. Though approximately 8 million youngsters are accepted as a freshman to universities and colleges, the relatively bad quality of the academic teaching and research have limited the development of China's high education. For one thing, a great many university teachers, especially those in business-related fields, lack both the updated knowledge and real business world practice to make their teaching more vivid and practical. For another, most Chinese undergraduates lack the creative ideas and the passion to devote themselves to the study and the extracurriculum activities. 

There is a saying here in China and even among scholars in USA and European countries, "Chinese students have in common much better fundation on the high school courses, such as Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, and etc, than their counterparts in America, British, France, Germany, and so on. But after graduating from the college, Chinese students are much worse prepared to get involved into the social competition than American or European students." This viewpoint really tells the truth. On one hand, the research and teaching capacity in Chinese institutions are far worse than that in Amercian or European universities. A lot of teachers just teach the students fully based on the text book. On the other hand, few undergraduates here are working hard to fight for their future. The reason is really hard to explain. In China, students usually study more than 14 hours per day while in junior and senior high school. In some famous high schools, according to the certain data, students usually study for about 16 hours and sleep less than 6 hours per day. So, as you can imagine, high school students are working very very hard to get a chance to be accepted into a famous university though only less than 5 percent of them finally achieve their goals. After struggling their way into the college, they want some rest and it is their first time to live without parents. It is a cool feeling. They play PC games, chat on internet, get to know boys and girls (Chinese high schools have strict rules that high school students are not permitted to make boyfriends or girlfriends publicly), and so on. They do not have much pressure as before. And usually they just spend the last month of a term to recite the content of a course. It is always easy to pass the exam unless you do not spend even a month to read your book. So, the quality of high education is really nothing. Many undergraduates, indeed, have learned little in the four-year study. That's why Chinese students feel hard to compete with foreign students.


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## luis masci

Shmily said:
			
		

> Lo que hay que destacar es que el
> dinero mueve mucho en nuestra sociedad, sobretodo en
> grandes ciudades, se nota mucho, la gente es más
> materialista y fría ante los pobres.





			
				kevinleihuang said:
			
		

> One third of the whole
> population have in average less than US Dollar
> $50/month for living, while the most rich people,
> approximately 1% of the whole population, have in
> average more than US Dollar $1250/month for living.



It’s good if China takes the positive things from Occident; but the bad news seems to be you are taking also the worst. 
I always like to stand out the Oriental philosophy front the meanness of Capitalism which the only god that recognizes is “the Money”.


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## kevinleihuang

Yes, according to the Oriental Philosophy, people care less about money but cherish the friendship and sincerity most. However, though now people are not willing to take money that seriously, it is hard for common people to not think about money every minute. The reason is quite simple. China is far away from highly developed. The common people thus have to struggle to have a better living. I would like to post an example. The average annual income of a common family living in the city, including two adults and one child, is approximately US Dollars $4,500 per year. Typically, they spend about $1,000 on food, $1,500 on the savings for housing, $500 on the savings for the fees of education for their child, $500 on other fees, $1000 on family savings. So, it is not easy to live better.

In China, the most hard burden is the fees on education. The Country does not provide any financial aid to primary and high school students, while university students who are proved to be unable to afford the fees could get a national loan with low interest. However, it is still too much money that people have to pay for education. An undergraduate have to spend about US Dollars $1,500 per year on tuition and living cost. That's really a quite lot of money for students from a common family. As for those whose parent are unemployed, many of them choose to work first rather than go to college. 

You may ask, "why college students themselves do not work part-time to pay for their study??" I would like to tell you that the part-time job opportunity for college students are very very little and the pay are extremely low. Chinese college students who seeks part-time job usually work as a mentor for primary school or high school students. Typically, they work 32-40 hours per month and the income is about US Dollars $25-50 per month.

However, students from rich family live quite differently. Most of them never work part-time. They have the most updated cell-phone, CD, MP3, laptop, car, and etc. They usually do not live on-campus. They live in the apartment that the cost per month is about US Dollars $1,800-2,400 per academic year. They drive Buick, Honda, Toyota, Audi, or BMW to school. And they usually have bad academic performance. 

Admittedly, there are some students, from rich family, who do appreciate the environment and conditions their parents have provided to them. They tend to study hard and know how to make friends around them comfortable on the different financial status they have been in. I mean they do not show off. They usually study abroad when graduating from college. They will always come back and take over the business from their parents or families. And these people, in this new ara China is experiencing, will probably be the leaders of almost every industry in the future.

Whatever you have ever imagined about China, I would say, China is a great country with glorious history and achievements. But that is the past. Now Chinese people are working extremely hard to rebuild a prosperous country for their posterities. Though we do make progress, problems and huge challenges do exist. We still have a long way to go to prove we belong to a civilized nation where people could enjoy a happier and easier life.


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## CrazyIvan

It seems that I have missed some of discussion on board due to my vacation. What is my vacation for? Haha, it is related to Chinese culture as well...IT WAS LUNA NEW YEAR on Jan.29th... Happy New Year for those who are in this discussion thread. (especially for those people in China )



			
				kevinleihuang said:
			
		

> Actually, though China is a fast developing country and plays a critical role in the world stage, most of the Chinese, perhaps 80% or even more of the whole population, are not aware of the present status China has been in. What common people care about most is how to lead a better life or how to lead a better career. Only a small part of the people who have been highly educated, I mean ones with a Bachelor degree at least, care about the international role China has now played in the complicated situation


 
For this first paragraph of your article, I would like to share some of my opinions. 

People in Taiwan used to be the same.(maybe I should say, they still did not change much nowadays.) Discussion about politics or international affairs were a "priviledge" for people who were in the centre of power circle, which means those congressman, certain party( that would refer to KMT in the past) and some local strong families. For we ordinary people, politics is a taboo and it may cost your life. People tend to change their focus on those issues which are more related to their daily life, and of course, it directly go to economic affairs.

I would say this tendency has a lot to do with the political atmosphere in certain regions.Now Taiwan allows people have freedom of speech, (or, I should say, relatively larger scope of freedom of speech is allowed.) People can discuss whatever they want in their peers. They fight each other all the time, but only by debating we find a better solution or compromises. Surely, the inefficiency in political decision-making process exist due to these debates, but that is a cost we have to bear. If people are not happy with current policy, or any lawmakers, they can easily lose the support, so as election.

I can not say for sure about situation in China, but given the recent events, such as that government shut down a new paper and closed some information about SARS epidemic, I seriously doubt the tolerance of Chinese government over freedom of speech. 

So, what will people choose? They can have thier own political opinions, but they have to "self-censor" if thier opinions cannot go along with "the Central" So, they are surely care more about thier own livings, since money is so powerful and it can even "penetrate" the bureaucracy.

I would just offer this alternatives of thinking, or, a possible answer for your problem why you cannot find a crowd for discussion about political and international affairs. As I mentioned before, politics is complicated and it can obstract some good cultural understanding in between. So, I will only carry on if people are interested in this. 



> in which some powerful countries are not willing to let China become too strong to be a potential threat.


 
I will assume that their fears comes from the lack of understanding, and they find it difficult to perdict where China will head to.  



> Most Chinese themselves cannot believe our economy has such good status.


 
I guess you explain yourself in the following statement why most Chinese still do not feel qutie better off. While some having better salary and some others, or I should say, the majority, still having not, it is hard to convince them their country is actually getting stonger and stronger. 



> So, we still have a long way to go to fight for the better living for those poor people.


 
Let's hope for the best in this whole new year! 



> A lot of my foreign friends think that the most thing that they believe to be the gap while communicating with Chinese is the culture difference. But, it is changing. More and more Chinese teenagers tend to accept the western way of thinking, the western life style, and so on. They are fans of hip-hop, Pizza, i-Pod, Motorola & Nokia Cellphone, and etc.


 
I have to say, lifestyle changes do not automatically turn to cultural understanding. I will take Japanese as an example. They adapt to western formality long ago in the late 19th century, but they are still the most distinct culture compared to Western world, or even to most Asian countries. Cultures have a lot to do with the way people think, talk, act, and behave, both in private and in public. That is why Chinese people are still so different from other ethnics in the world.

My exprience in Europe helped me understand why foreigners consider Chinese are hard to communicate with. My Chinese friends in school did not go out with thier western friends often. They either stay at home for study or go shop groceries with other Chinese. They talked in Chinese in school, and only speak English while necessary. As an observer, I found that is quite difficult for other non-Chinese speakers to get closer to them and understand them. 

Chinese cultures evolve along its history, which build up a very complicated structure. So, if they can not even get closer to us, how can we explain them our cultures?


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## CrazyIvan

I found Shmily explain Chinese culture quite well, which I would have some further explanation.

Talking about all inter-personal relationships, such as family, love, and friendships, Chinese people used to have a system, similiar to law, to follow, which is called "禮教" (Li giao.) Over thousand years, scholars built and debated over this system and I would say it is like a Christianity for western world.It is a hidden rule working in between people. 

I would expect this system has weaker influence over people in China nowadays, since culture revolution targeted it as an enemy and people hoped to overthrown it. But I will still say to some extend it still offers some guidelines for Chinese people to act "properly" in their society.

That is why sometimes my western friends have no idea why I feel uncomfortable doing something. For example, I did not express my love feeling to a girl while I believe it can be so rude. Or, I have some opinion against someone's idea but never directly shows it. Looking into the past, I just realized how much I was abided by these rules and how these rules have been part of cultures.


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## Outsider

*Happy new year to all.* 



			
				kevinleihuang said:
			
		

> However, students from rich family live quite differently. Most of them never work part-time. They have the most updated cell-phone, CD, MP3, laptop, car, and etc. They usually do not live on-campus. They live in the apartment that the cost per month is about US Dollars $1,800-2,400 per academic year. They drive Buick, Honda, Toyota, Audi, or BMW to school. And they usually have bad academic performance.


Some things are the same all around the world.


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## luis masci

kevinleihuang said:
			
		

> Yes, according to the Oriental Philosophy, people care less about money but cherish the friendship and sincerity most. However, though now people are not willing to take money that seriously, it is hard for common people to not think about money every minute. The reason is quite simple. China is far away from highly developed. The common people thus have to struggle to have a better living. I would like to post an example. The average annual income of a common family living in the city, including two adults and one child, is approximately US Dollars $4,500 per year. Typically, they spend about $1,000 on food, $1,500 on the savings for housing, $500 on the savings for the fees of education for their child, $500 on other fees, $1000 on family savings. So, it is not easy to live better.


My dear Kevin, justly that is the point.
If I say you: “ Ohh Kevin I can’t leave thinking about money each minute. But that is not because I’m becoming capitalist, but that is due I need to pay the last model car that I have got, the best school for my kids and of course I want next holidays go to Caribbean too”.
What do you could think about me? 
What you are saying sounds alike it. People have to choice between run to get the best and latest stuff or following a more spiritual life (like the life that lived their ancestors).
If they choice the first option it’s because they have leaf the former philosophy; there is not excuses.


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## tvdxer

It's been quite a few days (well, only about two weeks) but I find this thread pretty interesting.  

$1,000 on savings out of US$4500/year is actually pretty impressive.  It's somewhat shameful how little us Americans put to savings, and how many of us live completely indebted to creditors.

How common are home computers there in China?  Can the average middle class family afford a cheap one?  How much do they cost?  

What are common hobbies / leisures / pastimes?


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## Shmily

tvdxer said:
			
		

> It's been quite a few days (well, only about two weeks) but I find this thread pretty interesting.
> 
> $1,000 on savings out of US$4500/year is actually pretty impressive. It's somewhat shameful how little us Americans put to savings, and how many of us live completely indebted to creditors.
> 
> How common are home computers there in China? Can the average middle class family afford a cheap one? How much do they cost?
> 
> What are common hobbies / leisures / pastimes?


 
Home computers are really common in China, and chinese people are very good experts at IT area. If you can navigate on chinese webpages, you can say very good design as for  http://mms.163.com/ www.ebay.com.cn http://women.sohu.com/ http://cards.163.com/qrj_2006/ 

... As for sofware, there're really a huge lot for everything, you can find everything ...

In china, you can see 'cybers' with big area in every corner, very professional, most of people have computer at home, if not, they are in the cyber. Young people generally like play ' game online', it 's really developed market compared to european one. game's with arts martials, RGP...are very good received by young people.

Concerning its price, it's as expensive as a computer here, for technology products, there're not much fluctuance between the european prices.. A computer cost more or less 600 EURO.


Comoon hobbies its depends everybody, generally, womens like shopping, keep fit, there're a lot of beauty saloon in china... surfing online, watching asian drama. As i said before asian drama it's very big definited you can at www.d-addicts.com ...cosplay is too a very big hobbie...
Men like play game online , CS..etc, keep fit also, listenning music, mobile, cars, high technology..

I think its not a complete information, but well it's just from my perspective. hope it will help you to learn about chinese dialy life.


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## AlfonsoHKG

luis masci said:
			
		

> Some of the questions that brings to my mind right now:
> 
> -Have Chinese young people the same negative characteristic that their fellows from occidental societies are showing today? (drugs- alcohol - violence…)
> -How the HIV disease is rating in China? It could be determinant regarding the huge quantities they are.
> - Are they considering the military matter as important as used to be during so called cold war?


 
Alcohol not often, but when they drink they drink a lot and the effect is completly different as they are chemically different (in fact whites can drink more than anybody else without getting drunk. Sorry mates, I forgot the chemical composition in the body that explains this story)

HIV, a lot, they f*ck like hamsters and many without condoms

Military, politics... they don't care it is like Spain in the 60's with Franco. People care about making money.

If you don't agree with what I am saying I have been 7 years living in China (Canton and HKG), just bet


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## AlfonsoHKG

Cheap labour in China? The average in my factory is 1000 RMB, and that is more expensive than Romania, Morocco or many of the Sout-American Countries, and so long and so forth.

It is just all components are available there, people are hardworking and corruption is low (believe it)

If I open a factory in Morocco, Romania or Peru I will get stolen by the politicians, threaten by the Mafias, no components, no electricity.

I don't need cheap labour, I just need a Country where the investment is secured and they are not thieves.

That is CHINA, and their success is not based in cheap labour but in people who loves working, improving and fight for future. We are talking about great culture based in Confuciuos principles.


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## CrazyIvan

AlfonsoHKG said:
			
		

> It is just all components are available there, people are hardworking


 
I cannot agree you more!  The Asian style of business works as cluster. While you get all your component manufacturers together, you can slash your cost easily and aslo get the design niche. (Since your suppliers can work with you more closely.)



> corruption is low (believe it)


 
All my story is heard from others, so, please correct me if I make mistake. 

I would argue this with you that corruption situation varies from province to province. The stories I heard are mostly related to Taxation.For example, some officers will ask you to pay "tax" to them, wire the money to some account in Singapore or somewhere else, then you can just "buy" the relationship and all other benefits they may be able to bring to you. 

This situation is not from Conton province,so you may not be familiar wiht. But I believe it reflects certain degree of reality.



> If I open a factory in Morocco, Romania or Peru I will get stolen by the politicians, threaten by the Mafias, no components, no electricity.


 
However, Morocco and Romania is a way closer to European country, right? Transportation counts somehow. (As I can see lots of clothes in Europe now are manufactored in Romania.) But I do believe what you said, the overall environment may be worse in regions you mentioned.



> That is CHINA, and their success is not based in cheap labour but in people who loves working, improving and fight for future.


 
Actually, I believe most people in developing countries are hard-working. This is not particular Chinese traits. 

I have been in Czech and Malaysia and so impressed how hard working they are, though Chinese way of working may be even harder.

There is an old saying, "Work and devotion, until the day you lay."
(鞠躬盡瘁 死而後已) 



> We are talking about great culture based in Confuciuos principles.


 
Actually I tend to disagree with you at this point. 

Culturual Revolution targeted Confuciuous Pholisophy as a "old-fashion" and would like to swept it out of Chinese people's mind. Lots of people grown up during that period do not have the chances to get a touch of those theories.

Plus, education is a precious thing, which may not be available for everyone. So, I really doubt to what extent they can get familiar with these principles, no mention to adress these principles as their guildlines of life.

Yet, I do believe family has its influence. And people more or less have some idea from

I can give you a contra-example. There are principles, such as, to be obedience to parents and taking care of them while they get old,to be loyal to your friends,to be friendly to your relatives and neighbors, to be respectful to the Nature. However, I do not see them in people in China, or, at least for those I met. 

They work harder because they want to have better life, for either themselves or their family.  But this phenomenon may have nothing to do with Confucious principles. As you point out in previous response,they care about Money. Money talks, but not Confuciuous.


----------



## azleda

i live in shanghai now, according to many foreigners... some spanish, shanghai's a lot like NY city. i think it's because of the skyscrapers. never been to the big apple, so... the living standards are pretty great. it's quite enjoyable since you get good tech stuff and world-class products, yet human resources and living expenses remain at a pretty low rate. could say it's a comfortable city. about other parts in china... well... it's big you know. all i can say that one would receive an immense cultural shock when visiting places like mongolia, xing jiang, or tibet. and for the developing cities all around the country... do not underestimate their future developement, one would be surprised at how well they're planned out, how effective the communist gov't is when they need to clear out paths for constructions, and how fast chinese workders build up a top-knotch high-tech city in less than 5 yrs.

hope you found this useful


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## luis masci

Hola Azleda, interesante lo que cuentas, dime… ya que tu estas viviendo en una gran ciudad de China ¿podrías contarnos algo más? No me refiero a nada complicado como estadísticas y ese tipo de cosas, sino a otras tan simples como puede ser si tu temes andar de noche sola en algunos sectores de la ciudad, como supongo te ocurriría  si vivieras en NY, o si por el contrario es una ciudad donde puedes sentirte segura.
También si como ciudadana te sientes de alguna manera presionada por el gobierno, en el sentido de no poder expresar libremente lo que piensas, tanto en materia política, religiosa o lo que sea.


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## Cristovao

luis masci said:
			
		

> Well… in that case I’d say it’s the same here in occident.
> I know a lot of people who celebrate Christmas without knowing why.


 
Actually people don't really celebrate in China. I don't think high schools in China would even have a Christmas holiday! The Lunar Chinese New Year in February would be their "biggest" festival out of all.


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## kevinleihuang

agree with Cristovao


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## luis masci

Luis Masci said:
			
		

> Well… in that case I’d say it’s the same here in occident.
> I know a lot of people who celebrate Christmas without knowing why.


In order people can understand what we are talking about, it’s just a reply that I have done for some  countryman of you. He told that Christmas festivity is celebrated in China, though most people didn’t know its real meaning.
Seems China is as long as some Chinese people remain unknowing about what is happing in another parts of the country.


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## CrazyIvan

I would say the information haven't been spread evenly through the country.

Dear Luis,  as you may notice in your country, people nowadays are so much controlled by media. They choose the information they would like to release, and then the public will ONLY know the things they get.

I guess that is the situation in China.

My experiece in China is, yes, people in big cities celebrate X'mas, but mainly for the pupose as a shopping event. I believe somehow that is important, say, boyfriends adn girlfriends exchanges gifts. But the true meaning is not commonly-known.

I also notice that there are churches in Shanghai, so, they may have some events for this day?

Though I point out the media influence, I still want to point out that China is too big for everybody to understand each other, so, remain unknown about what other is doing is common.


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## test0012

sorry for my poor english.

i'm chinese too. but unlike dalian, kevinleihuang, and etc, i do not feel optimistic about the future. as crazyivan have said, the government controls the media so much, for average people, even many well-educated people do not know the fact. yes, i really love my motherland, for the culture, art, language, history, but i really really sad when thinking about the country is under the control of communist. the communist destroyed china, destroyed all beautiful part of the nation. today's china has no positive culture. there is 1.3 billion population in the mainland, with respected to hong kong and taiwan, which has only 20 or some population, but which one is much more creative and has more contribution to the modern chinese culture (pop, fashion, literature, art...)? yes, china has open its economic to the world, but for the political, from jiang zemin's three representation to hu jintao's eight dos eight donts, i don't see any progress has made. it seems the government do not know what average chinese doing and thinking, the government is trying to educate chinese people just like educate a child. it is too stupid. for example, about the internet censorship, they block whatever, not only websites related to f*a*l*u*n gong and t*i*b*e*t independent, but also google, wikipedia, sourceforge, freebsd.org, and etc, i can't believe the government and the party is controlled by an intelligent animal. if one day, china not communist anymore, the nation will finally go out of the dark age, and i am sure i will celebrate for three days and nights.


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## luis masci

Well Test 0012…As a matter of fact if you are writing from China and we can read what you have said, then your government doesn’t seem making any censorship or they have fails. 
Otherwise what you have written should have been banned.
Don’t you think?


----------



## CrazyIvan

Hi, Test0012, 

   I really appreciate that we share some common opinion over this issue...And I believe China should draw more attention from the world..not as a market or as a investment, but a transforming nation which should take extra care....

   The way the current government doing, ( I do not like to call them Communist because they are more than Capitalist than anyone else now...), have not significant difference from previous dynasties. A dynasty raises and grows...and due to the previous destruction given a lower base, they grows rapidly....but, along with the corruption and insufficience of social values, they collapses. 

   I do not want to see this happen to modern China...Chinese people should have given a better chance to prove themselves...since lots of them have shown the world how understanding they can be...But the government should carry the responsibility and act more aggressively against corruption and promote better values....not a nationalism and capitalism approach...(which encourage people only spending their money without thinking, hating the surrounding countries without further understanding, also, put the money on the first priority of life...)


----------



## CrazyIvan

luis masci said:
			
		

> Well Test 0012…As a matter of fact if you are writing from China and we can read what you have said, then your government doesn’t seem making any censorship or they have fails.
> Otherwise what you have written should have been banned.
> Don’t you think?


 
Dear Luis masci, 

  As I know, some "hackers" provide the people great tools to crack the "Information shield" they have built.


----------



## test0012

CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> Dear Luis masci,
> 
> As I know, some "hackers" provide the people great tools to crack the "Information shield" they have built.



The Golden Shield or "Great Firewall" makes me very angry, or I would not hate the Party like this. They always block unrelated websites without any notice, just cut the TCP connection. Some western countries like Germany, or even some Arabic countries also censors the Internet, but at least they tell you why the website to be censored. The Chinese government never give you a reason, just like a thief, does everything in a mystery. However, as long as the Internet censorship policy is based on a blacklist, we can always bypass the censorship.


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## estudioso

algún día quiero visitar Harbin y ver el festival internacional de escultura en hielo que me parece una maravilla!!


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## Dalian

CrazyIvan said:
			
		

> Hi, Test0012,
> 
> I really appreciate that we share some common opinion over this issue...And I believe China should draw more attention from the world..not as a market or as a investment, but a transforming nation which should take extra care....
> 
> The way the current government doing, ( I do not like to call them Communist because they are more than Capitalist than anyone else now...), have not significant difference from previous dynasties. A dynasty raises and grows...and due to the previous destruction given a lower base, they grows rapidly....but, along with the corruption and insufficience of social values, they collapses.
> 
> I do not want to see this happen to modern China...Chinese people should have given a better chance to prove themselves...since lots of them have shown the world how understanding they can be...But the government should carry the responsibility and act more aggressively against corruption and promote better values....not a nationalism and capitalism approach...(which encourage people only spending their money without thinking, hating the surrounding countries without further understanding, also, put the money on the first priority of life...)


 
I totally agree with you on this, Ivan.


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## Dalian

estudioso said:
			
		

> algún día quiero visitar Harbin y ver el festival internacional de escultura en hielo que me parece una maravilla!!


Hola estudioso, las esculturas en hielo en Harbin son realmente bonitas y el festival es muy famoso en mi país. Deseo que lo pases bien! 

Saludos
Dalian


----------



## coconutpalm

May I differ with test0012? Google is definitely not blocked ( I love this search engine and I've been using it ever since I first logged on the net) ,I can find out as much infomation about Tibet as possible and yesterday I was talking with my friend-on-line about the fugitive Dalai! I'm typing out my post in a city only 3-hour drive from Beijing.
I would like to answer some questions raised in the 2nd (or 3rd? it's really a long thread!hehe). 
To start with, I want to point out that although there are many many problems in my country (Every country has its own problems, doesn't it?), please keep it in mind that the supreme truth is that China is making progress in all aspects, not exclusively in economy.

As for your divorce question, well, I think I may have to extend a bit for you to fully understand it. The divorce rate in China is rising----true, as in the western world, but something different underlies the pheonomenon in China. Traditionally, China was and is, family-based. This "family" doesn't simply refer to Father, Mother and kids, but includes all/most of our relatives. When we get married or divorced, it's not only our own thing, it's all these people's. As the would-be bride/bridegroom or divorcee, we consider the impact not only on ourselves but on "them". As the relatives, we feel obliged to think it's an issue we must take part in deciding. Things are changing. We think more of ourselves than of others when we find it unendurable to live with Husband/Wife. On the contrary, I understand the high divorce rate in western countries is because you RUSH into a marriage and when you decide he/she is not the rihgt one(maybe two days later), you divorce. In this process, you rarely think about your family, am I right? So, I think the rising rate in China is mostly a good thing. We still cherish our family ,but we also come to understand that we are living our own lives but not of others, however we love them.
Informal couples are getting more and more. BUT, another interesting difference---the majority of (let me not say all of) these relationships are approved by the parents. They will or at least believe they will get married one day. However, we are getting more open to sex, so many people in big cities find one-night-love-affair inducing, they want to "play games". I don't like this.

I'm a junior in a university. Someone says "higher education in China is nothing". Well, I don't like the education system of China, either. There should be a reform in this field. BUT, the university does provide us with something, for example, a broader outlook as far as I'm concerned, which I consider is most helpful. 

Corruption and red tape? Yes, serious, devastating. How much I envy Singapore people! They have the most severe legitimate punishment and the most justice civil servants!

Gap between the poor and the rich? Yes, but the government is making a huge effort. I come from the rural areas, and the taxation on peasants are indeed lifted! 

Financial, educational, and medical areas? Yes, there are problems, serious problems, but if you look at the newspaper (some may argue it's misleading us, but the government can't shut us in the vacuum, the information can't be all false, isn't it? And we have eyes, ears , and greatest of all, we have the Internet!) and look around you, things are getting better, maybe not as fast as some expect or want, but please remember, there are 1,300,000,000 people throughout this country, and the new China only has a history of 50 years while its whole history(we love our history and tradition, but I'm afraid that some Chinese are over proud of it. What's most important is today, not yesterday)is 6000 years long!
And one of my Chinese mate says it's a pity that Chinese people no longer care for their traditional culture. Um, I have to differ again. I love Tang poems, Songci, Huangmei Dama, Yue Dramas, and I'm particular interested in Chinese history (I'm also interested in foreign history as well). Besides, as far as I know, forums about Chinese traditioal culture enjoy significantly high hit page rate. And these forums and chatrooms are great! I make many friends on this forum and in some chatrooms AND in real life.It's truly a pity that most foreigners are not able to join us.

I will never deliberately hide any dark side from any foreign friends because I think it would be lousy to do so. But I do want you to understand China, a developing country. We are a people of long long history, we suffered a lot, we are on our way to build a new prosperous nation ( you want your countries to be well off as well, don't you?), we love peace because we suffered a lot from wars.
Every nation may have its stereotype in other peoples' eyes, but please never say it's the only truth. We are communicating as human and with human, we are basically the same.


----------



## luis masci

[/quote]*However, we are getting more open to sex, so *
*many people in big cities find one-night-love-affair *
*inducing, they want to "play games". I don't like *
*this.*

Not sure what you mean with “play games”. 
Watching trends in the northern
hemisphere makes me think that people in so-called 
"developped countries" in general, and in some 
Europeans countries in particular,have gone too far.
The impression that I personally get,is those 
societies have become wealthy so that rather than 
attending to basic needs people have become bored and 
are seeking new experiences.
Swinging, dogging, bi-curious... are common currency 
there by these days.

[/quote]*Financial, educational, and medical areas? *
*Yes, there are problems, serious problems, but if you *
*look at the newspaper (some may argue it's misleading *
*us, but the government can't shut us in the vacuum, *
*the information can't be all false, isn't it? And we *
*have eyes, ears , and greatest of all, we have the *
*Internet!* 

By the way, I know China has a vast territory, but 
according you can see in your city/town/neighborhood… 
could you tell us how many people have computer in 
home?
Is it so common there or most people go to cyber 
coffees and stuff like that? 

[/quote]*and look around you, things are getting *
*better, maybe not as fast as some expect or want, but *
*please remember, there are 1,300,000,000 people *
*throughout this country.*

Yeah, sure it’s present in many minds. Especially 
from developed countries. 
I suspect the huge number of Chinese people is always 
motive for worries (and also fear)about leaders of most important countries. 


[/quote]*We are communicating as human and with human, *
*we are basically the same*.

That is a great truth (and after all the amazing thing)


----------



## test0012

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> May I differ with test0012? Google is definitely not blocked ( I love this search engine and I've been using it ever since I first logged on the net) ,I can find out as much infomation about Tibet as possible and yesterday I was talking with my friend-on-line about the fugitive Dalai! I'm typing out my post in a city only 3-hour drive from Beijing.


 
Don't kidding me. Google not blocked? I do not search Tibet or Tiananmen so often, but I got blocked by the Firewall almost everyday, it just cut the TCP connection to Google for about 5 to 10 minutes every time, people without the knowledge of the Firewall might think it is their own Internet connection problems.

BTW, blogspot.com, googlepages.com are Google services, Google Cache is a part of Google Search, they were blocked every time you visit. The blockage of blogspot and google pages are IP based, and the blockage of Google Cache is keyword based (the keyword "search?q=cache:" in url).


----------



## vince

Is there any special software the government forces you to install in order to connect to the Internet?

A classmate of mine who is from Hong Kong but visits China sometimes once told me that there is always an icon of a police officer on the side of the screen that reminds you to be careful about what you do. Is this true?


----------



## test0012

vince said:
			
		

> Is there any special software the government forces you to install in order to connect to the Internet?
> 
> A classmate of mine who is from Hong Kong but visits China sometimes once told me that there is always an icon of a police officer on the side of the screen that reminds you to be careful about what you do. Is this true?


 
No such software. The Firewall acts as a plugin of the router at the international border of the Internet. But some public Internet cafes have such software installed.


----------



## daoxunchang

Eugens said:
			
		

> Are you sure? I once heard a man on TV saying that China in Chinese means something like "the centre of the world". This man had apparently lived in China for several years and studied Chinese culture. He told that he himself had found out this when a Chinese friend of his saw a map that he had with him and said: "this is a very strange map." The map was a regular western planisphere, so he asked curiously, "why do do say that?" His friend replied, "because China is not in the middle."
> 
> I've done a search on the Internet and I found some websites that agree with what this man said:
> 
> _"Zhongguo_
> _Central Empire (中國/中国 __zhōngguó) in _
> _The Chinese traditionally positioned the emperor of China at the center of the world, conceiving concentric rings that extends from the cultural center to barbarlic borderlands."_
> 
> _"The Chinese call their country Zhong Guo, meaning Middle Country. The ancient Chinese thought of their country as both the geographical center of the world and the only cultured civilization. The name China was given to the country by foreigners." _
> 
> _"The Chinese call their country Zhongguo, which means Middle Country. (...) The English name China probably came from Qin «chihn», the name of an early Chinese dynasty (series of rulers from the same family)."_
> 
> _"China's very name is composed of ideographs meaning "center" and "country" respectively, and traditional Chinese world maps show China in the center."_


 
Everyone attention！ Please go back home and look at a world map produced by your own country, and see where your country are placed. You will definitely find your country is placed in the middle. It is just natural to look at the world from oneself's standpoint.
Actully, the name zhong guo(中国) originally had nothing to do with a country. It was used to refer to the city where the emperor lived. Because our ancestors held the place an emperor habitated was zhong---the middle, and the city he lived in was zhong guo. 
And our ancient scholars had some astronomical to back this idea. But it is too complicated for me to translate. I stick the chinese below.
中国”名称的由来
　 “中国”这一名称始于周朝。但最初“中国”并不是指国家，而是指国都。古代学者认为，帝王之所即为“中”，所建的城邑就是“中国”。至于把华夏民族的居住地和建立的国家称为“中国”，那就是后来的事情了。
　 古人把神秘的天空看作神界，把星辰中最引人注目的北极星看作是“天中”。这是因为古人观察到满天的星星都围绕北极星转，就像一把转动的伞一样，而伞的顶端就是北极星。依此设想，人们便认定人君的国都就是“土中”，即大地的中心。传说武王伐纣成功以后，所做的第一件事情，便是考察四方，寻找“土中”，结果找到了伊、洛平原，并在这里定都洛阳，其用意是让天下百姓像星星那样向自己围聚合拢，此地后来被称为中原、中州、中土。以后随着时代的推移，逐渐演变为把华夏民族的居住地和建立的国家叫“中国”了。
As for the name of Qin dynasty, it was originally a name of a tribe. And I don't think it had any relation with 墙(qiang). Maybe Eugens thought so because there is some similarity between the pronunciation? I don't think it would be convincing.
秦：据《史记》记载，本为古部落，其首领非子为周孝王羊马有成绩，被周孝王赐姓为“嬴”，并赐给了一小块土地（今甘肃天水县，另说是陇西谷名）。后来襄又救周有功被封为诸侯，秦始皇统一六国，始建秦国。


----------



## daoxunchang

luis masci said:
			
		

> \
> -Is HIV issue considering a big problem in China? Are most Chinese aware of it?


I should add that the mostly unprotected sex activities of homosexuals poses great threat to the AIDS siutation in China. I think it is high time for our country to try to create a better situation for them.


----------



## daoxunchang

luis masci said:
			
		

> *However, we are getting more open to sex, so *
> *many people in big cities find one-night-love-affair *
> *inducing, they want to "play games". I don't like *
> *this.*
> 
> Not sure what you mean with “play games”.
> Watching trends in the northern
> hemisphere makes me think that people in so-called
> "developped countries" in general, and in some
> Europeans countries in particular,have gone too far.
> The impression that I personally get,is those
> societies have become wealthy so that rather than
> attending to basic needs people have become bored and
> are seeking new experiences.
> Swinging, dogging, bi-curious... are common currency
> there by these days.


*Financial, educational, and medical areas? *
*Yes, there are problems, serious problems, but if you *
*look at the newspaper (some may argue it's misleading *
*us, but the government can't shut us in the vacuum, *
*the information can't be all false, isn't it? And we *
*have eyes, ears , and greatest of all, we have the *
*Internet!* 

By the way, I know China has a vast territory, but 
according you can see in your city/town/neighborhood… 
could you tell us how many people have computer in 
home?
Is it so common there or most people go to cyber 
coffees and stuff like that? 

[/quote]*and look around you, things are getting *
*better, maybe not as fast as some expect or want, but *
*please remember, there are 1,300,000,000 people *
*throughout this country.*

Yeah, sure it’s present in many minds. Especially 
from developed countries. 
I suspect the huge number of Chinese people is always 
motive for worries (and also fear)about leaders of most important countries. 


[/quote]*We are communicating as human and with human, *
*we are basically the same*.[/quote]

By "play games", coconutpalm I think means these people are just looking for sex satisfaction or just fun. And I have to add that we university students are quite "open" on this matter, most theoretically and many practically.
As for the popularisation of computers, I think many of my countrymen have talked a lot in the previous posts. Indeed, I should say, from my personal experience, computers in estern China are quite common. Especially in Chinese universities, cellphones, MP3(or MP4, or Ipod), and computers are many students' necessary accompaniment. In common estern Chinese families, I think computers are also quite common. I come from a little town, and in these---two to three?---years computers come into many families of my hometown, especially those of some teachers and people working in hospitals, post office and telecommunication bureau ,i.e. those with relatively high education background. There are also computer programmes for civil servants and cyber cafes have also appeared. If one talks about a county, not to say a city, these things would be even more common. You can find cyber cafes everywhere. But things are quite different in those poor regions.
I should say the immense population of our country is really a big drawback for our government work. That is why I resent to what test0012 has said. It's just too radical and non-practical. To do things right and well in a country with such a population is really a arduous task. It is just unfair to only highlight what this government has done wrongly while ignore what it has done successfully.
As for traditional Chinese values, such as filial respect for parents, I do not think it has been lost in our society, as my Taiwan countryman CrazyIvan said. It maybe that many children are spoilt and nowadays youngsters put much more emphasis on themselves, but it is also true that we love and respect our parents and are willing to do things for them and not to do some things for them. I am a junior in university and I think I know my peers in this respect. It's just we care for both, both for us and for our family.
Then speaking of a communist leading party, I do not see it bad to have a "communist" party to lead our country. I say it is bad when this party is derailed from its exclaimed principles. And I believe this party are trying its best to return to the right place. The problem is--- our country is just too large. 

P.S. to AlfonsoHKG, how would you expect us to carry out our "One Child" policy without contraceptive methods? And how would you expect those with casual sex behaviour to prevent undesirable results?

P.S. to test 0012, I have no problem with my Google, either. Maybe the government imposes more restrictions on people in Beijing, our political centre?

Hi luis masci, I am speaking on behalf of coconutpalm. She has some problems with her computer tonight and cannot reply to your questions.

That is a great truth (and after all the amazing thing)[/quote]


----------



## vince

daoxunchang said:
			
		

> Everyone attention！ Please go back home and look at a world map produced by your own country, and see where your country are placed. You will definitely find your country is placed in the middle.



No, in most Western world maps, the Atlantic Ocean is in the middle. So while we might center the world over the Western Hemisphere, we are not centering it over a particular country.

Are there any other countries in the world who call themselves "Central Country"?

The closest I can think of is the United States calling themselves "America" even though they are but one country on the continent. But they are not calling themselves "Central Country".

China should eventually change its name to something less ideological. Too bad Japan ruined the "Shi-na" name.


----------



## Outsider

vince said:
			
		

> No, in most Western world maps, the Atlantic Ocean is in the middle. So while we might center the world over the Western Hemisphere, we are not centering it over a particular country.


I seem to recall that in the U.S. some maps have the American continent in the middle. I'm not sure I've ever seen one like that. It would be nice if someone could confirm.


----------



## coconutpalm

vince said:
			
		

> No, in most Western world maps, the Atlantic Ocean is in the middle. So while we might center the world over the Western Hemisphere, we are not centering it over a particular country.
> 
> Are there any other countries in the world who call themselves "Central Country"?
> 
> The closest I can think of is the United States calling themselves "America" even though they are but one country on the continent. But they are not calling themselves "Central Country".
> 
> China should eventually change its name to something less ideological. Too bad Japan ruined the "Shi-na" name.


I'm sorry,vince, but if I say I don't like the name of Britan or England, because it reminds all of the Chinese people of the invasion 100 years ago, would you kindly suggest to your majesty that she should change her country's name?
Name is name. We named our country thousands of years ago.


----------



## coconutpalm

daoxunchang said:
			
		

> I should add that the mostly unprotected sex activities of homosexuals poses great threat to the AIDS siutation in China. I think it is high time for our country to try to create a better situation for them.


Absolutely!
They are people living in the shades. We should help them.


----------



## daoxunchang

vince said:
			
		

> No, in most Western world maps, the Atlantic Ocean is in the middle. So while we might center the world over the Western Hemisphere, we are not centering it over a particular country.
> 
> Are there any other countries in the world who call themselves "Central Country"?
> 
> The closest I can think of is the United States calling themselves "America" even though they are but one country on the continent. But they are not calling themselves "Central Country".
> 
> China should eventually change its name to something less ideological. Too bad Japan ruined the "Shi-na" name.


 
I once read an article in which it was mentioned that every country put itself in the middle of the world map. It cited America and Japan as examples. Maybe I was misled.

As to the name of our country, please look at my another post. It has explained this matter very clearly.


----------



## maxiogee

vince said:
			
		

> China should eventually change its name to something less ideological. Too bad Japan ruined the "Shi-na" name.



When you are the size of China, you can call yourself Central Country with some justification. Who are they harming? Why "should" China change, just because you find it ideologically offensive? There are more things wrong with this world than a slightly pompous geographical reference in a country's name.


----------



## daoxunchang

maxiogee said:
			
		

> When you are the size of China, you can call yourself Central Country with some justification. Who are they harming? Why "should" China change, just because you find it ideologically offensive? There are more things wrong with this world than a slightly pompous geographical reference in a country's name.


 
Thank you, maxiogee.


----------



## luis masci

daoxunchang said:
			
		

> I once read an article in which it was mentioned that every country put itself in the middle of the world map. It cited America and Japan as examples. Maybe I was misled.


For the same reason that Daoxunchang says, it’s notable that the hemisphere as we know it, was ideated by northern people.  
That explains why they are in the up part and southern in the down part. Considering the university has not up and down, I find it totally arbitrary.


----------



## maxiogee

luis masci said:
			
		

> Considering the universe has not up and down, I find it totally arbitrary.



If you give things a forward and a backward, a left and a right, then you also give them an up and a down.
If there is no "up" or "down", how do NASA get rockets to go where they want them to  . The universe is three-dimensional geometry, (almost) every point can be defined in relation to any other point by three co-ordinates, x, y and z.


----------



## luis masci

Yes I know what you mean Maxiogee. 
What I  argument is not exactly that point but why is it not in the inverse way? I mean, Southern part up and Northern part down.  

P.S. Thanks for your corrections


----------



## maxiogee

I know that many early maps of Europe had no standard orientation. I've seen maps of Ireland which have west to the top. To someone who "knows" how Ireland looks, it's very disconcerting.
Compasses point either north or south - it was a 50/50 decision as to which ended up 'dominant'. I presume that "up = north" was chosen because the northern hemisphere was where the people making the maps and the voyages were living.


----------



## emma42

I remember an argument between the senior prince and the English teacher in The King and I about the position of Siam (now Thailand) on the map.  The prince was furious that Siam was not in the middle of the world and also, because it looked so small.

Anyway, to get back to China;  I read in the Guardian yesterday (centre left quality newspaper in England) a very interesting article about illegal land seizure in China.  In particular, I noted that many older rural people still have an enormous trust in the Central Government to give them justice.  It was mooted that this was a hangover from the trust people used to have in the Emperor.  Many people therefore become "Petitioners", travelling to Beijing with their petitions and sometimes waiting months to be heard, living in "petitioners'" ghettos and being looked down on as a kind of underclass.

What do people think about this?


----------



## coconutpalm

emma42 said:
			
		

> I remember an argument between the senior prince and the English teacher in The King and I about the position of Siam (now Thailand) on the map. The prince was furious that Siam was not in the middle of the world and also, because it looked so small.
> 
> Anyway, to get back to China; I read in the Guardian yesterday (centre left quality newspaper in England) a very interesting article about illegal land seizure in China. In particular, I noted that many older rural people still have an enormous trust in the Central Government to give them justice. It was mooted that this was a hangover from the trust people used to have in the Emperor. Many people therefore become "Petitioners", travelling to Beijing with their petitions and sometimes waiting months to be heard, living in "petitioners'" ghettos and being looked down on as a kind of underclass.
> 
> What do people think about this?


 

Shame!
Although the legal aid system is improving, but... 
While things are getting better in the south, our capital is not doing better than Shanghai and Canton.

Emma's question reminds me of one of our Taiwan fellow's confusion: why do those trendy-dressing girls pass the poor, miserable beggars without even glancing at them? Are they stone-hearted or what?
My answer is: probably NOT.
Many beggars in Tiananmen and railway stations all around China are FALSE beggars. They are not poor. The moment they turn around the corner, they fish out their cellphones and fat wallets. if you help them, you are being cheated.
You see many little children running around, begging for money, and they are probably controlled by criminal gangs. If you give them money, you are helping criminals.
But it's no denying that many of these beggars maybe really in a desperate situation, that's why every time I go shopping, I'll donnate money to ONLY one old person. Even if this old person is "false", I suppose they need help----working in such old age without a child (perhaps not willing to) supporting them. As far as I know, most people around me donate money to a couple of beggars when there are not too many of them.


----------



## daoxunchang

I agree with coconutpalm on the beggar matter.
The most serious problems of China are related with our countryside. Our government are trying its best. But that just justifies how bad the situation is.


----------



## luis masci

Taking advantage of the fact that now there are at least two Chinese persons willing to tell us about their nation, I’d like to do some questions that were barely answered or were not at all. 
All of us know that China’s government allows only one child for each couple. Being China as vast territory as indeed it’s… How can the government control it? Is it really strictly adhered or is it just a mere tentative to get down the huge population? 
Does exist a real persecution against all kind of religion?


----------



## wsitiplaju

I was in China five years ago, teaching in a very expensive private boarding school.  Many of the students had brothers and sisters.  For "extra" children, you had to pay a fine equivalent to about $1,000 USD.  This is a new phenomenon, part of the emergence of a bourgeoisie.  People my age (27) were the last to have brothers and sisters, before the one-child law went into effect.  

I do not know about religious persecution.  Buddhism certainly seemed alive and well, and I met several Chinese Christians.  No one mentioned persecution to me.  There was a pretty big Christian church in the city where I first lived that had regular services.  Some of the other foreign teachers went there.


----------



## wsitiplaju

The idea that you should not give money to beggars because they are fake is common all over the world.  I do not find it a convincing reason.  You do not know who is a fake beggar and who is a real beggar.  So what if you are cheated?  It is not very much money.  I do not want to live in a society where, if I need to beg, no one will give me money because they think I am a fake.

My aunt lives in Beijing and also does not give money to beggars for the same reason.  When I asked her how she knew that the woman we just walked by was a fake, she said, "Because I'm from Beijing, and everyone who's from Beijing knows that beggars are fakes!"  There's logic for you.


----------



## maxiogee

wsitiplaju said:
			
		

> I do not know about religious persecution.  Buddhism certainly seemed alive and well, and I met several Chinese Christians.  No one mentioned persecution to me.  There was a pretty big Christian church in the city where I first lived that had regular services.  Some of the other foreign teachers went there.



But isn't there a problem between The Vatican and the Chinese government. The Vatican is of the opinion that the Chinese government has been influencing the selection of bishops and has been gaining control of the Catholic Church in China this way.
I believe that there are several bishops who are not recognised by Rome.


----------



## coconutpalm

Are there bishops in China? Oh, I never knew that!

For the beggars, um, I do give some of them money, remember? And many of my friends do, too. If you come to China, and walk in the streets, well, you'll find it impossible for you give money to all of them or one tenth or one hundrenth of them! There're simply too many of them! The government should do something. It's not that we don't want to do charity work, but we don't like to be cheated. It's more acceptable for us to donate clothes,money and food to Project Hope, because we can at least make sure we are helping those truly in need. Shameful, I have to say. Shouldn't it be more touching when we see somebody miserable in the real life instead of on the TV or the paper? 

Luis, I'm 19 years old, and I have two sisters, but one of them is my twin sister. My parents received fines for giving birth to extra kids---my twin sister and I. 
Several years ago, a teacher I know was severely punished for giving birth to a second child---salary cut, and fined. In his case, I don't sympathize with him, because the motivation is that he wanted a boy, however smart his daughter is!
But the government no longer prohibit the parents give birth to more than one child, it's not encourage. 
What a pity! We should have adopted Ma Yinchu's proposal thirty years ago and we wouldn't have to be so harsh!


----------



## Dimitri Lee

I agree with coconutpalm on the beggars issue. I have heard rumours about beggars( in fact, i saw it on TV news, but i consider Taiwan's news as rumours ) that gangs kidnap kids, break their limbs, enslave them, make them beg, and take away the money. If it is true, dont give the beggars money might be a good way to stop the gangs. And there are millionaire professional beggars, who drive their Mercedes to "work", which is twice the price as in the US due to the tariff. You must find a way to give your money to those who really need it, or you will be encouraging fake beggars.


----------



## luis masci

Well... according Wsitiplaju and Coconutpalm have said the law of only one child per couple isn’t adhered so much for these days. If following this law they grown up as much as 1.300 millions I don’t want even guess what will happen if they couldn’t. 
About beggars... what worry me most aren’t whether they are authentic or a fake but the fact there are such a lot in the streets.


----------



## coconutpalm

Yes, that's why I said "government should do something", not to drive them home (many of them maybe indeed homeless) or SIMPLY send them to the collecting posts, or such such things.
I can't come up with an idea how to help them. I think the concentration of the government hasn't been and I suspect won't be on them. Peasants are living a worse life than these beggars, whether they are fake or not.


----------



## emma42

Coconutpalm and wsiti give me hope for humanity.  Yes, it is a common problem in England too.  Which beggars are fake and which are not?  the government tells us to give to charities for the homeless and this goes some way towards a solution,  but it doesn't help when you are confronted by a real human being in the street.  

The answer, of course, is to create  a society in which begging is not needed.  I think the Chinese government needs to sort out the problems in the countryside, where people are dying because of, for example, lack of money to buy life-saving medical care and drugs.  That will at least go some way towards preventing peasants having to go to the big cities to beg and petition.  My information has come from this thread and from The Guardian newspaper (which I trust), so if any of it is wrong, please correct me.  Thank you.


----------



## daoxunchang

luis masci said:
			
		

> Taking advantage of the fact that now there are at least two Chinese persons willing to tell us about their nation, I’d like to do some questions that were barely answered or were not at all.
> All of us know that China’s government allows only one child for each couple. Being China as vast territory as indeed it’s… How can the government control it? Is it really strictly adhered or is it just a mere tentative to get down the huge population?
> Does exist a real persecution against all kind of religion?


 
luis masci, as to the problem of our "One-Child Policy", my another countryman Dalian has provided some general infromation. I'd like to 
introduce to you some basic background information to make you aware how essential and pressing it was for our country to make such a policy and how greatly it has done to our country. Besides, I'd like to introduce some specific facts of our population situation.

Our country has been promoting the birth control since the beginning of seventies and made this our basic national policy at the end of the seventies after Deng Xiaoping---our chief designer of our "Open and Reform"---analysed the current circumstances our country was in. At that time, after thirty years of population increase with two booms, respectively after our country's establishment and from 1962 to 1972. There were perspective people saw the outcome of such an uncontrolled acrual of a population with such an enormous original base, but their oppinions were not widely accepted. Because of the merge of threat of this increase to our sources, environment and economy, our government called for the use of contraceptive devices but did not make compulsory demands; therefore the situation was not timely controlled. Actually, besides the pressing and practical need for reviving our national vitality---you can think about how many people we had lost during the previous long wars, and the traditon to sustain our lineages, which I would definitely not ascribe to us Chinese only, I guess maybe our leaders then might have thought of the deterrent effect of a huge population. Just a guess, but I must say you foreigners, generally with far less people and far smaller territory, have a natural and sometimes an blind fear for it. 

Here are some specifice statistics of our population situation during the first years after our country's establishment. 
1949-1964: 500mil.-7000mil. rate: 100mil./7.5year 
1964-1974: 700mil.-900mil. rate: 100mil./5year
(from 1973 on, nation-wide birth control)
1973-1995.2: 900mil.-1.2bil. rate: 100mil./7year 
(the nineties, the third boom, average 100mil. women between 20-29) 
1970 birth rate: 33.42‰ cf. 1999 birth rate: 15.23‰ (below the average birth rate of other developing countries) 
1995.2.15 total population: 1.2 billion 
recent net average increase per year: ca 14million

In addition to the past uncontrolled reproduction, there are other reasons that lead to the current enormous population. Thanks to the development of our public medical care, our average life expectency has increased from 35 before liberation to 69 and our infant mortality has decreased from 200‰～250‰ before liberation to the current 13.8‰ in the city and 21.7‰ in the country. But it is a pity that this improvements are accompanied with great regional disparity. 

The basic requirements of our birth-control policy are "one child per family only, late marriage, late birth, quality birth, quality nurturing, girls are as good as boys". But it is far more complex than that. Our government has fully considered the different circumstances of city and country, of regions and of races. For residents with registered permanent city residence identity, they are generally required to have only one child. By the way, in the past, for promotion and protection of women's status and rights, the residence identity was given in related to their mothers', but this has changed. For residents with country identity and without official posts, if their first birth is a girl, they can have a second birth. We begin to impose the policy on minority races in recent years and the specific rules are set by local government after taking the local circumstances into consideration. Generally, people of minority races can have two birth or even more, up to four. We have no birth control in Tibet region and minority races with especially small population. For them, we put emphasis on the enhancement of the health of women and babies. For people who are allowed only one birth and whose children have disability that make their supportive ability of their parents' family in their old age impossible, before or after birth, they can have another birth.

Our goal set in 2000 in the next 5, 10, and 50 years are as following---just of the numbers: 2005, below 1.33 billion (exclusive of Hongkong, Macau and Taiwan); 2010, below 1.4 billion; 2050, decrease after reaching the peak---1.6 billion.

We use various methods, punitive and encouraging methods together---for violation of punitive rules, members of the Party and people with official posts will receive much severer punishments.
The imposition of this birth-control policy has done our country great good. A much smaller population than what may have been lifts much pressure on our economy, education, medical care, employment, and natural environment. It helps sweep some bad old concepts, such as the degrading of women. 

However, in recent years, many people, even those with very high education, are violating this policy because of the revival of some federalist ideas. You may have heard of a datum---80 million. That is the surplus of men over women. And this may worsen if those people do not stop diserting, killing girl babies or stop "choosing" the sex of their babies by use of some technical methods, such as BP.

But apart from the discrimination of girls, there are practical reasons that force some people not to support our counry's policy. Though people now accept the practice of daughters supporting their parents in their old age, a couple still has four of more elder family members (parents, child, and maybe grandparents) to support. This is the situation in the cities. In our mostly unautomated countryside, men are still the main labour source for agriculture---I do not count the labour drain in these regions here, and naturally so. That's the dilemma our country is now in. It is irresponsible and impractical to stop the practice of this policy and it is really hard to solve the consequent outcomes. The only solution is the all-scale development. But our development is also in this dilemma.
It is really time-demanding for me to explain this to you. I have to do my homework now. I'll explain further later.

All in all, I would like you westners to see our country's birth-control is a responsible action and a must-so choice. So would you tell your neighbours, relatives and whoever do not know much about it this? We really hate to see some countries rebuke us with very arrogant and irresponsible tones on this issue without the least consideration of why we have been doing so. Thanks a lot.

By the way, if anyone points out the false or unidiomatic expressions in this post, I appreciate a lot. I know my English is awful . Sorry if you are tortured by it.


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## daoxunchang

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> But the government no longer prohibit the parents give birth to more than one child, it's not encourage.


 
No longer prohibited?  I think this happens only in some big cities like Shanghai to encourage those intelletuals who are not considering of having even one child. I will try to find more about it.



			
				coconutpalm said:
			
		

> What a pity! We should have adopted Ma Yinchu's proposal thirty years ago and we wouldn't have to be so harsh!


I agree with you.


----------



## emma42

daoxunchang, thank you very much for that explanation. It has made me think about the birth control question. It is so useful to have someone like you giving your opinion.

What was Ma Yinchu's proposal?


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## daoxunchang

Ma Yinchu was the president of Peking University. He proposed in 1957 that every couple have only two children.
However, though Ma's proposal meets with our current policy, during my search for information on the Internet, I found out more justification of his opponent side's --- Mao Zedong's decision. I have touched this a little in my previous post. I restate the reasons, not including economic calculation, here.
One reason we experienced such a rapid population increase after the liberation was the natural need to revive our nation's physical (may I use this word this way?) vitality. You could think of how many men we lost during the preceding wars and could think of your own baby-booming after the world wars, actually after every long-lasting war.
Another reason was out of the preparation of possible wars. I think you must know a lot of the world situation of that time.
The third reason was the inability to impose birth-control technically. We didn't have the ability to produce condoms and other contraceptive devices. We couldn't do abortions, or the operation might cost the pregnant women's lives.
The last reason---maybe not the last---some economists of today criticise Ma's proposal is of course the implausibility caused by our tradition ideas.
So emma, you could see the complexity of our population situation. Ma saw the danger of uncontrolled increase of population, but our leaders then also saw the danger of controlled increase of it at that period of time.
Hope this could help.


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## emma42

Thank you, daoxunchang, that really helps.

As for "our nation's physical vitality" - I know exactly what you mean because of the context, but out of context it would sound as if you were talking about "the level of fitness/physical health of the people", so I think, perhaps, "revive our nation's population level".

Actually, thinking about it, "our nation's physical vitality" is a lovely turn of phrase because it is talking about your nation as if it were one person. This type of turn of phrase is called either "metonymy" or "synecdoche" - I can't remember which.

THat is not a very simple answer to your question, sorry.


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## daoxunchang

Thanks for your help, emma.
It's high time to sleep. I'll only say a little more on this issue today.
Actually, the current birth control policy has attracted more and more criticism in our country in recent years. Many people are calling for a more flexible and more sustainable system of birth plan. We are now facing many serious social problems related to our current population construction and distribution, such our social benefits system, the problem of the enlarging of aged population group (there is a set phrase for this kind of society, but I think you could understand what I mean. Sorry for this awkward expression), and so on and so forth. Ah, and of course, many problems in our countryside.
It's really difficult for me to explain all this clearly with my limited knowledge and my poor English in such a short time. If there is anything unclear, please ask. I'll try my best to search for information on the Internet. It's a pity you cannot read Chinese.
Good night. And thanks for your sincere attention to our country's problem. And thanks for you giving me an opportunity to learn more about my own country.


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## emma42

Thank you so much, dao, and your English is in no way "poor".  You hvae expressed yourself very clearly.

We also have the problem of "an aging population" due to the slowing down of our birth rate, but that is England.

I look foward to learning more about China.


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## luis masci

daoxunchang said:
			
		

> luis masci, as to the problem of our "One-Child Policy", my another countryman Dalian has provided some general infromation.


Daoxunchang , I know others like Dalian told about this topic too, but I considered worth to have a second opinion. You know... sometimes people from the same country tell total opposite things. So I think it’s important to have a second opinion.
Same as Emma, I want to say thank you very much. I appreciate the time you have spent making this for enlighten us about China situation in this point. 
I have read it once, but I want to do it again; don’t worry your letter is clear enough but my English skill is not the best. 
I want to grip it so well; so then, I’ll be able to tell about it to my countryfolk.


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## coconutpalm

Although it might be off-topic, I really want to say thank you to luis for inviting me to visit this thread!
And I want to thank emma and many other friends that are willing to learn about my motherland and trying their best to understand the special situation in China! Thank you very much!
If you have any further question ,please feel free to ask me or Dao or Dalian. I believe every Chinese would feel very happy to provide you with more background knowledge!


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## daoxunchang

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> Although it might be off-topic, I really want to say thank you to luis for inviting me to visit this thread!
> And I want to thank emma and many other friends that are willing to learn about my motherland and trying their best to understand the special situation in China! Thank you very much!
> If you have any further question ,please feel free to ask me or Dao or Dalian. I believe every Chinese would feel very happy to provide you with more background knowledge!


 

I'm in with coconutpalm!


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## maxiogee

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> Are there bishops in China? Oh, I never knew that!



* http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/la.html

* Catholic Church in China
(note: the underground Catholic Church in China is heavily persecuted. Be aware that the Patriotic Catholic Church of China is not united with Rome, ...
www.tldm.org/email/china.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


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## emma42

Hello, Chinese friends (and everyone else!)

What is the situation with demonstrations etc today?  For example, what would happen if workers decided to demonstrate against low wages, or peasants demonstrated against illegal land seizure?


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## coconutpalm

Virtually no demonstration.

The Constitution says that it's our legal right to demonstrate, under the permission of the government. (not the actual words of the law)
But we are not free to demonstrate. For example,  we rarely get the opprotunity to demonstrate against the Japanese Premier's act of paying homage to Yasukuni Jinjia. I think this involves political concerns.

Workers demonstrate against low wages? Not quite possible as long as the labor demand and supply is in inequilibrium. Fortunately, things are improving.  The lack of peasant labor force this year helps raise status of peasant workers and, natually, their wages have risen.

Peasants demonstrate against illegal land seizure? No demonstration, only outbreaks of violent protest. It's a pity that most peasants in China haven't received a high education, they know little about of the law, and worst of all, bureaucracy and corruption are unconquerable!


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## emma42

THank you coconutpalm. I am sorry to be so ignorant, but can you explain about"paying homage to Yasukuni Jinjia"?  Was this the leader during the wars?


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## coconutpalm

Yasukuni Jinjia is the temple where Japanese worshipped their war heroes. The problem is that they put the memorial tablets of the war criminals of the World War II in there, too!
To our astonishment, furiousness, Japan's Premier koizumijyunitiro keeps "paying homage to it"!
Koreans and Chinese are extremely angry at that!
I don't want to involve these things (hatred, misunderstanding perhaps) in this forum, so I have to STOP. I personally know some Japanese who are really kind.


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## emma42

Thank you, coconutpalm.  I did not know about this and, of course, Japan was "on the other side" in World War 2 as well.  I can't imagine Germany doing something similar and "getting away with it".  Like you, I mean no offence to any Japanese forer@s.


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## daoxunchang

Actually, we usually do not go for help from organisations like a union of labour. I am now a student and really do not know much about the society, but as far as I have heard about, these unions of labour have been showing impotence.
Neither do we demonstrate. We have the right to demonstrate according to law.
When we have problems, we usually resort to law. But in some regions when the conflicts are very tense, they may lead to direct confrontation between farmers and the government. There were many such bloody conflicts in the past few years. But the situation may be sofening because our government is making great efforts. Agricultural taxes have been lifted and illegal land seizure has received more and more attention. I have found some very specific regulations on the compensations for seized land, but it's really difficult to find out whether the actual impletement is eally carried out or whether it is effective. It is even more difficult to find out what it is like in every place of China.
Sorry for my empty explanation, but this may make you feel good. Just now I was browsing on the Internet to find more on this, and found out that many farmers have gone onto Internet and asked for help. I am sure things are actually getting better.


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## emma42

Thank you, Daox. You may not think it was a good explanation, but I learnt a lot from it.

On the question of the Japanese premier paying homage - I am ignorant, because I asked my mum about this and she knew all about it. Apparently, it is on the British news every year. Many British people were in Japanese prisoner of war camps during the second World War and were badly treated.

I don't want to go off the subject of China, however, as it will be "off-topic".


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## luis masci

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> Although it might be off-topic, I really want to say thank you to luis for inviting me to visit this thread!





			
				coconutpalm said:
			
		

> bureaucracy and corruption are unconquerable!


First of all I want to say I’m the grateful one towards you and your countrymen who are participating in this thread and enlighten us about your country.
Do you mean are there a lot of corruption en China’s government? If it’s so, that suggests two points.
1-We are sharing similar characteristic, because corruption is one of the most notable features of most Latin American governments.  
2-This statement could be a prove that you are expresing free via internet (which was discussed between you and other Chinese mates) because ( I think) otherwise you couldn’t say that.


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## coconutpalm

Luis, yes, a lot of corruption in China! Sadly.
And again, yes, we're free to talk about corruption. Actually, there're many many reports about this kind of crime in newpapers. So, it's a public issue.


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## daoxunchang

Just now I took a look at my number of posts and quite happily found that it had reached over the number 30, which I felt like impossible to get to. This, as known to you experienced foreros, means that I can stick links onto my posts.
Here is one which I had kept in my favorites at the time when so many of us crowded in this post talking about the population problem in my country. It may seem disturbing and trivial to stick it now as you are engaged in much more interesting posts, but I just don't want to be one who throw all at the back of my mind after cooling down.

http://www.cpirc.org.cn/index.asp

May this link help those who are still interested in learning more about my country. I know most of you don't know Chinese. The part I'd want to show you is the two always changing numbers at the upper left of the page. The one above is the number showing the population of our mainland, the other the population of the present year.
Hope these two numbers can give you a much more direct and alive impression in the population problem in my country.


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## emma42

Congratulations, daoxunchang!

For everybody's information, there is shortly to be a fourt-part (I think) television programme on BBC2. entitled "China".  It would be great if our Chinese members were able to access it on the internet and tell us what they think.  I don't know whether this would be possible.


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## luis masci

Thank you Daoxunchang, we are lucky the numbers are not in Chinese too.  
This is impressive, really.  These numbers are increasing constantly. I suppose it’s supplied by some national information centre or something like that. 
Now, let me one more question about your country if you don’t mind:
We all know how a big problem is (in Western world) issues as alcohol and drug addiction.  
Could you tell us about whether it’s similar problem or not compared with Western, among Chinese population?


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## coconutpalm

More and more people are getting addicted to alcohol and drugs. But I think drug abuses are catching more public attention because  it does greater harm to the addicted, the families, and the society.
Here is some dated figures (that's what I can provide so far. sorry)

From 148,000 in 1991 to 1,140,400 in 2004, listed population addicted to drugs. Theoretically, one more listed addict, seven more unlisted addicts. Times the number with 7, that's nearly 10,000,000 addicts in 2004!

70% were adolescents.

Up-to-date knowledge about this issue:
Drug addicts, prostitutes, people who sell one's blood, and gays have become the "leading" groups that are opt to being infected by AIDS virus. 

There's a AIDS village in Henan province. All of the villagers have been infected wtih AIDS. The reason is that the hospital that bought their blood used unsterilized instruments(Damn the hospital! Sorry, but I can't help it!)

Here is a link in Chinese It covers many many things, but it's too long to translate.
http://www.chain.net.cn/wArticle.php?articleID=1035
If by chance you can read Chinese ( I know many foreigners can speak Chinese quite well but can't read it.),it's very useful.

I think daoxunchang can give more useful figures or datas. She's always good at it!


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## daoxunchang

It's really flattering for coconutpalm to say this .
In my opinion, the problems of alcohol abuse and drug abuse in our country is not as serious as in the western world. I drew this conclusion after I took a look at my sounding environment and got little information browsing on-line. But this in no way means that they doesn't deserve our attention and alert. 
It is known in our country that we have two regions that are riddled with drug planting, trafficking and abusing. They are respectively around two provinces Xinjiang in western China, near the drug trafficking route of Middle Asia, and Yunnan in southern China, near the "Golden Triangle". 
As to the problem of alcohol abuse, though we Chinese are known to enjoy feasts, we don't have many revelries. But there are a lot of people, because of "work's needs", attend too many feasts too often and many of them suffer from diseases. 
It seems that university students have drawn a lot of attention on this drinking issue. Though few of them are alcohol addicts, many university students, mainly boys, like to get together and drink a lot. Really a lot. I am a university student and I have real experience of this.
Though it's difficult to get much information on drug abuse itself, I have found out some in related to another issue which is receiving more and more attention in our country, that is, AIDS. Taking advantage of what the web page coconutpalm has provided, I get the statistics of 2004-2005 that show a rather high rate of HIV infection among drug abusers. According to this article, we had five provinces with over 10% of HIV infections among drug abusers. They are as follows: Xinjiang (30%), Yunnan (22.5%), Guangxi (20%), Sichuan (13%), Hunan (12%). Guangxi and Sichuan both adjoin Yunnan, and Hunan is Guangxi's neighbouring province.
The drug-taking population overlaps much with the population that work sexual service industry, which I think is also the case in other parts of the world.


----------



## emma42

Those AIDS statistics are shocking.  How much credence do you give to your government statistics, Daoxunchang and coconutpalm?  Even in the so-called "open" west, we distrust government statistics at times.  The old adage comes to mind:

*Lies, damn lies, and statistics*

Also, I was under the impression that Chinese people (along with, for example, Koreans, Vietnamese etc) are unable to process alcohol in their bodies, as other peoples can.  Is this true, or is it completely wrong?


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## vince

Obviously wrong, they are the same species as you.

The only possible hypothesis is that since they tend to eat less and therefore have smaller bodies, they might have a slightly weaker alcohol tolerance.

Remember that, given a "Caucasian"-looking person and an "Oriental"-looking person, you can find two "Caucasian"-looking people who have wider DNA differences than the "Caucasian" and the "Oriental". That's why I put "Caucasian" and "Oriental" in quotation marks - race does not exist.


----------



## emma42

No, seriously, vince, I am almost sure I have heard something about this from reliable sources. There is no racism involved at all. It was not to do with "smaller bodies", but some other form of physiological make-up. I will try to find some facts. I hear what you say about race not existing.

Edit:  I have found some facts, and I apologise for the use of the word "oriental" if it offends anybody.  "40% of the oriental population have an inactive form of the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, which causes a build-up of acetaldehyde" in the body when alcohol is imbibed.  This causes amongst other things, facial flushing and can cause severe poisoning.

The "medication", Antabus (disulfiram) is sometimes used in the treatment of alcoholism.  It inhibits the above-mentioned enzyme so that the body cannot process alcohol in the usual way.  So if the alcoholic drinks, then s/he will become very sick indeed.

I'm sorry I've lost the source, but will find it again if anyone disagrees with me.


----------



## coconutpalm

Emma, I have heard that Orientals (I don't think it's an offendingterm)can't process milk, but never heard that we can't process alcohol 
Yes, many people flush or go white when drinking too much(in some cases, a drop is too much), but don't Caucasian flush or go white if you drink too much? 



And statistics, um, we usually think the government understate the real situation. That's why I quoted the hypothesis of "one more listed, seven more unlisted". I don't know whether it's the real case, but I think it implies at least part of the truth.


----------



## emma42

I hear what you say about statistics, coconutpalm.

I didn't want to go on and on about this alcohol question, but it appears to have a sound basis in science.  If you can get the BBC website, you will find a report on an international study, "Asians at risk from alcohol gene".  The report states that "up to 50%" of Chinese and Japanese people are affected.  There is loads of stuff about it on the net.


----------



## coconutpalm

I can't connect to the page, emma, could you please quote part of it here?

I don't think many Chinese are addicted to alcohol. Many, no, I think most  of us drink( from a sip of beer to a gulp of vodka to bottles of wine). I drink beer occasionaly. At least there's none around me that is addicted. 
Pitifully, just as daoxunchang pointed out, business people and  politicians drink so much that they are ruining their health! My father drank a lot, but his poor health is mainly due to his smoking habits.


----------



## emma42

Oh, coconutpalm - I have tried to insert a link and can't do that.  Also, the Forum Rules prevent me from quoting from the report.  I will paraphrase parts of it:

Alcohol is toxic.  The liver has to break it down with natural body chemicals.  There are two stages to the breakdown - 1) the first chemical converts the alcohol to acetaldehyde, 2) a second chemical converts the acetaldehyde to acetate, which other tissues in the body (outside the liver) can cope with.

Some people (ie as many as 50% Chinese and Japanese) do not have the genetic code which allows the liver to make that second chemical.

This means that these people have much much more of the acetaldehyde than people who have the necessary gene.  so, when they drink they will experience (far more than other people) facial flushing, dizziness and nausea.

The study in question found that, in addition, if these people without the gene drink more heavily, there is much more of the toxic chemical acetaldehyde in their saliva and scientists believe that this can cause cancer as it passes across throat tissues.

The BBC article names the study as "An international research project", and the names of Professor Ting-Kai Le from the Indiana University School of Medecine, and Dr Mikko Salaspuro from Helsinki University Central Hospital are mentioned.


----------



## luis masci

Ones more I have to say thank you very much Coco and Daouxu for sharing about China this way. Now you are mentined it about your father Coco....
Another drug, that was during long time considered as fashion rather than a real drug (at least in the western world), was the tobacco. 
I remember when I was in the university (about 20 years ago) the classroom used to look as fogging. Especially during winters with all windows shut.
Today, something like that could be unthinkable because of “the war” against tobacco is each time more aggressive. Nowadays it’s not allowed to smoke in many bars, pubs, coffees, etc. Of course in all schools and many work places too. You may see this thread if you want more information (many posts are in Spanish but also there are many written in English).
I would like to know how you are dealing in China with this issue. I mean…I’m not asking you a national researching (I don’t want you blame me if you fail in next university tests  ) I just inquire you (and it will be my last question, I promise  ) how do you see it surrounding you. With your friends and people in general, in the places where you usually are moving. Do you think is it working up in China in the same tobacco prohibitive direction? 

P.S. I'm afraid my English is not "the best" here. Please feel free for any clarification if it's necessary.


----------



## melop

I don't think there're too many people around me is addicted to alcohol. Usually people from north love drinking and they can drink a lot!! But for myself, I can't cope with half glass of beer.


----------



## daoxunchang

emma42 said:
			
		

> Those AIDS statistics are shocking. How much credence do you give to your government statistics, Daoxunchang and coconutpalm? Even in the so-called "open" west, we distrust government statistics at times. The old adage comes to mind:
> 
> *Lies, damn lies, and statistics*


 
Well, I usually choose to believe the statistics our government give us because often only it have the sources and power to get them. Also, I choose to believe it because I see our government often does not claim their research results are the reality. We can see this in AIDS issue. Our government always points out that due to many factors, maybe the published statistics are far from the truth.


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## daoxunchang

However, I believe I have not chosen what I believe to give you. I have always tried to find what I can get and given them to you as what they are .


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## coconutpalm

I am currently studying in the north of China. I have to admit that northerners really drink a lot, and they are proud of it. BUT, they CAN drink a lot, that is, I'm afraid the 50% only applies to the southerners. Even with the global warming nowadays, it is very cold in the north. In the past, um, you can imagine. Just take a look at the map and see how "north" the northern part of China is! So it's natural for the northerns to develop the genes for processing alcohol, because they used to need wine to warm their bodies in the very very cold, very very long winter.

The south is another story. It's warm. 
And southerners are always less "unrestrained"(which is considered a good charactistic by the northerners) when drinking. They like being sober so that they can do business with a clear mind. (Due to geographical and political reasons, it's the southerners that were mostly engaged in the business world. And they are still considered to be good at it. Some may be too good at it, I'm afraid. )


----------



## coconutpalm

Luis, I did a quick research, and I say "oh, no!"
In 2006,
350,000,000 smokers.
50,000,000 of them are teenagers.

In the year 2002, 66% are male, 3.08% are female.

In year 2000, 1,000,000 died from smoking, more than the total that died from AIDS, tuberculosis, traffic accidents, and suicides.

Terrible figures.

P.S. Luis, you are most welcome. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions! Outsiders' questions may be most helpful in stimulating us to inspect ourselves.


Edit: I forgot to answer your question about "around" myself. In my class, very few smoke, but again, boys are only half of girls.
So I consulted one of my roommates whose boyfriend who study science subject rather than arts subject, that is, most of the students are boys. 70% to 80% smoke!
I guess it's largely due to the environment.

And there are No-smoking areas in railway stations and smokers rarely smoke outside it. (I travel a lot from home to school.) As for other areas, bars, offices, I don't have much experience. Sorry.


----------



## luis masci

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> P.S. Luis, you are most welcome. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions! Outsiders' questions may be most helpful in stimulating us to inspect ourselves.


Thank you Coconut, I say the same for you.  
I was hoping the situation in China could be better because I heard Chinese people like taking care about their physic (gym everyday and stuff like that). But of course…I’m very naïve if I think so. Being such a huge quantities of people its logic to think there is not an only pattern of conduct.


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## coconutpalm

Yes, gyms are growing more and more popular in the cities.

Unfortunately, as we are being westernized to a great extent(or more exactly, Americanized?), many white-collars or would-be white-collars(considered to be elite group) come to believe that what is good for you is of course good for us. Thus we are abandoning many many good traditions. 

Mcdonald and Kentucky are very popular in China, despite the fact that it has been proven that they are unhealthy food. It's just that they think it's trendy and western and they should frequent them so as to prove they are westernized enough. Stupid, I should say. 

And as you can see from the previous posts, many Chinese smoke, drink, or eat unhealthy food (for Chinese, maybe not for Westerners). some Chinese believe that they can stay healthy as long as they eat many many tonics. It's definitely wrong. 

However, as far as I know, more and more Chinese are returning. They can to know that no country, no culture, no people is perfect. We should find way to maintain our health in way that are suitable to Chinese. We can learn from other countries, but it's wrong to copy everything without apprasing.


----------



## melop

Do Chinese people gym everyday? Oh, it seems I've really been left behind. I know some people does, but most people who need to work can barely make time for that I guess, at least in my city Guangzhou, very few people gym compared to the population.


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## coconutpalm

Yes, melop.Very few indeed. White-collars that are high in the ladder, I suppose.


----------



## purpledragon

hello,everyone.I new here. 
I am interested in learning other countres's history and culture but I am wondering what foreiners real think of chinese, our country,and our culture.


----------



## TimeHP

Hi.
I've got 2 Chinese friends (women). We sometimes speak of politics and society in China and all seems to me very complicated. 
But I'm really charmed by ancient Chinese culture.
I'm learning Chinese language and I practise Tai qi, so I've read some books about Taoism and about China. 
I suppose sometimes we turn into a myth some aspects of old Chinese culture... 
Ciao


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## coachmanu

The chinese culture is so different. How long do you work per week.


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## tvdxer

purpledragon said:


> hello,everyone.I new here.
> I am interested in learning other countres's history and culture but I am wondering what foreiners real think of chinese, our country,and our culture.



I think of China as a very large country, both in area and population, with a great amount of diversity within - even though the Han make up the majority of the population, there are numerous minority ethnic groups, some who do not even look like the Chinese to a white person (e.g. Uyghur).  

The culture, I think, is very strongly influenced by a Confucian worldview that places a great amount of importance on respecting authority.  The authority itself was once oppressively communist, but has become quite capitalist over the years - after all, China as a market is quickly become synonymous with....BRUTAL capitalism!


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## Tsoman

I think in the United States, the chinese (in china) are percieved as being hard-working, smart,frugal, good at math, and traditional.

The word I would use to describe Chinese-American culture (as in how it relates to me) is _secretive. _Like a members-only club. I'm not saying that in a negative way.


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## semisa

Tsoman said:


> I think in the United States, the chinese (in china) are percieved as being hard-working, smart,frugal, good at math, and traditional.


 
So I´m a tipcal Chinese... But I still can not see any reason to shame of it,and I´m wondering  why in some soap operas such as _desperate housewives _and mony other films they discribe Chinese people as submissive,poor and even servile?Of course,I totally understand why people have such a stereotype,but it obviously misleads people from other part of the world and is somewhat offensive.I was once asked by a New Yorker like this_ is there any slave in China?_


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator Note:  The posts about a Chinese forum have been removed, since the topic has been covered in the Comments and Suggestions forum.


----------



## beakman

Hola!
First I'd like to thank all participants of this thread and especially Luis Masci, who successfully opened this topic  , and our Chinese friends for sharing with us their knowledge about China so that many of us, people of this world, could get more truly vision and get new perspectives on many things which have to do with cultures we don't understand because we don't know them. 

Unfortunately, my personal knowledge about China is very limited to some commonly known clishés, as for example, such as "People's Republic", "high number of population", "Mao as its principal leader",Bruce Lee was a Chinese, not more than that... So, when I came across this thread and began to read it I got absorbed by it and I can say that I got very curious about China. (By the way, what I got mpressed about was the clarity of ideas and intelligence of our Chinese friends, their unbiased and frank opinions about their country, their open-mindness.

I also have some questions about China. (Mine (some of them) are not so serious, but anyway, I take a chance and ask them hoping they will not stay unreplied).
For instance, is there any cult of Kung Fu in China? Does it have many followers nowerdays? I refer to it not merely as "marcial arts" but also as a philosophy.

Other question, which have to do with your cuisine -Do Chinese people really prepare cats/ rats, I mean whether they are accustomed to use these animals in their cuisine? (Once, here in Spain, I saw about it on TV, but I'm not sure whether it was China or other country, I think it was filmed when there was Chiken Flu all over the world).

And the last one is about your attitude towards Tibet. Have you ever been to Tibet? Do Tibetan people consider themselves Chinese? Does their language (Tibetan) have some in common with Chinese from Peking? Are they really so Buddist as they are depicted in the films? Are there still monks in Shaolin monastery?

There is one more - How to say "hello" and "bye-bye" in Chinese?

Hope not to be repetitive 
Regards!


----------



## daoxunchang

Welcome to this thread, beakman! I'm so glad to have more and more people to be interested in our country and to really set out to know more about it . More than that, what you've said and what I've learnt these years during my interraction with foreign netfriends make me even more eager to pass what WE really are to the world.
I'll try my best to answer your questions.



			
				beakman said:
			
		

> For instance, is there any cult of Kung Fu in China? Does it have many followers nowerdays? I refer to it not merely as "marcial arts" but also as a philosophy.


As far as I know, no. Many people are still practising kung fu, but mostly for their health. The most popular kung fu --- I use this word, because it's the only word I know to denote our 武功 in English, but please bear in mind that what images 武功 incurs in my mind is very very different from what you might have constructed in your mind from those Hollywood movies --- might be Taiji, or Chinese shadowboxing. It's a very beautiful kind of kung fu if you are really good at it. Wow!........ Let me digress a little bit and absorb in my memory of the most beautiful Taiji I've ever seen..............

Ok, here're your other questions:


> Other question, which have to do with your cuisine -Do Chinese people really prepare cats/ rats, I mean whether they are accustomed to use these animals in their cuisine? (Once, here in Spain, I saw about it on TV, but I'm not sure whether it was China or other country, I think it was filmed when there was Chiken Flu all over the world).


We don't eat cats, their meat is said to be too sour. I don't know if it's true but there's no one who eats them. Dog meat is very delicious. What you've seen in the TV is called 狸子猫. It has a 猫 cat in it's name, but I don't think they are much related.
Here I want to beg you not to judge too quickly from the preferences of your culture . And I also have a question for you: do you still not eat snakes? I read in some articles that you westerners would even throw up after being told they had eaten snakes. But they are really delicious. It's totally cultural-psychological.



> And the last one is about your attitude towards Tibet. Have you ever been to Tibet? Do Tibetan people consider themselves Chinese? Does their language (Tibetan) have some in common with Chinese from Peking? Are they really so Buddist as they are depicted in the films? Are there still monks in Shaolin monastery?


I really don't have any contact with people from very minority-populated areas myself. Oh, I remember, I once met a Mongolian boy on the train. He was from our Mongolian Municipality, but he spoke only Chinese. He told us that they have been much assimilated. But that's the case with Mongolians, with Mongolians in my mind . As for Hui ethnic minority group 回族, many of whom are Muslims or under Muslim influence, and Tibetans, who are under Lamaist influence, I really don't have any personal knowledge. But I can tell you that from what I've heard of, they do have much difference from us. But then what? It's just natural. From their point of view, it's US who are different.
As for people from the inland, now the Qinghai-Tibet railroad is completeds, many many people in the inland want to go to Tibet and many of them have done this. I know many around me who have the wish and are preparing for this. 
And are Tibetans very different from people from Peking? Of course they are! We are all very different from Peking people. China is just too large, and a really travelled person can almost at the first sight or just after exchanging a few words where the person he's talking to is from.
It seems you are really interested in those monks in Shaolin, right ? Well, they are still there, but I've never been there. I can only tell you that I've seen several monks and nuns in the street myself, one of them riding a motorcycle . I don't care for the monks and nuns. Many of them are very corrupted, just like those we've had in some dynasties. What I care for is the study of Buddhism. I know some "mundane" people who are very truly keen on this.



> There is one more - How to say "hello" and "bye-bye" in Chinese?


We say "你好ni hao", more or less like "How are you?", and "再见"zai jian, more or less like "See you again" .

Best wishes for you!
DXC


----------



## coconutpalm

beakman said:


> For instance, is there any cult of Kung Fu in China? Does it have many followers nowerdays? I refer to it not merely as "marcial arts" but also as a philosophy.


Beakman, I'm not sure what you mean by "philosophy" instead of "martial arts". Actually, I don't think there's a specific philosophy concerning Kung Fu despite its long long history.
As Daoxunchang has said, what you see in Ang Lee's films is far far away from what Kung Fu really is. I think that's what you mean by "arts"? 
On the other hand, there is indeed a martial convention which is not "martial" in many aspects. By this, we advocate a humane spirit: help the weak, devote yourself wholeheartedly to friends and the one that appreciates your ability, etc. 
People who have this kind of spirit are not necessairily "heroes" or "great men", BTW. Of course, it's the latter that are best remembered.



beakman said:


> Other question, which have to do with your cuisine -Do Chinese people really prepare cats/ rats, I mean whether they are accustomed to use these animals in their cuisine? (Once, here in Spain, I saw about it on TV, but I'm not sure whether it was China or other country, I think it was filmed when there was Chiken Flu all over the world).


Haha, Daoxunchang raised an interesting question!
Tell you what, (typical) people in the northen China shrink away from the idea of eating snakes as well!
Why? I guess the most plausible reason is because there're far far less, if any, snakes in the northen area. People are afraid of unknown.
Cultural issue.



beakman said:


> And the last one is about your attitude towards Tibet. Have you ever been to Tibet? Do Tibetan people consider themselves Chinese? Does their language (Tibetan) have some in common with Chinese from Peking? Are they really so Buddist as they are depicted in the films? Are there still monks in Shaolin monastery?


Like Daoxunchang, I don't personnally know any Tibetans. However, there're two students of minority heritance in my class. They are no less like Han people. Whether it's pitiful or fortunate is not up to us to decide. It's the reality.
Does their language (Tibetan) have some in common with Chinese from Peking?
They have their own language Zang language藏语, but I think probably most of them speak Chinese, too.
Shaolin Monastery? Wow, there're a loooot of argument over their ongoing reformation. Again, no one knows where the great Shaolin Monastery 少林寺 is going.
I hoped to find some relevant information on Wiki, but there's no upgraded information.



beakman said:


> There is one more - How to say "hello" and "bye-bye" in Chinese?
> You can also say 喂wei/嗨hai for hello.


 
Hope it helps!
Questions are always welcome!


----------



## daoxunchang

Ah! Sorry for my great carelessness! You asked about if their LANGUAGE has any simmilarity with the Peking dialect of Chinese! I'm so sorry for my mistake!
No, I don't think they have much simmilarity. In common linguistic division. Tibetan and Chinese are in different language families.
Again sorry for my mistake!


----------



## coconutpalm

coachmanu said:


> The chinese culture is so different. How long do you work per week.


 

It depends, I'd say.
The legal working hour is 8 hours for five days per week, for office people,teachers, government employees, etc. And sometimes they have to work additional hours as all white collars do.
For workers in factories, well, they have shifts, so it's hard to tell, but I think there's a upper limit. BUT, many factory owners are rubbish!  
However, the supply-demand relationship is changing. The current great shortage of farmer workers is a best examples. Cheers!


----------



## beakman

你好ni hao! 你wei!
Thank you, Dauxunchang and Coconutpalm for replying my post! I just want to clarify some points about Kung Fu. I recognize my error when I referred to it as a philosophy. What I meant was what Coconutpalm kindly explained in his post, that it is "a martial convention which is not "martial" in many aspects" which has to do with humane spirit: "help the weak, devote yourself wholeheartedly to friends and the one that appreciates your ability".
This what I always believed about Kung Fu -that it was not only for practising your body but also for exercising your mind/spirit. One friend of mine was devoted to it, almost really obsessed by kung fu (Russian friend). Maybe you are right, and those Hollywood movies have nothing to do with what it is in real life (by the way I haven't seen much of them). Have you ever seen the television series "Kung Fu" with David Carradine (as Kwai Chang Caine)? I guess you haven't, as it's from 70s-80s. I myself watched it on Spanish Television by chance in 90s. I liked it very much. 
Now, I'm going to reply your question, Daoxunchang!



daoxunchang said:


> do you still not eat snakes? I read in some articles that you westerners would even throw up after being told they had eaten snakes. But they are really delicious. It's totally cultural-psychological.
> DXC


No, I don't still eat snakes, but I don't think I would throw it up if I ate it and then somebody told me what it was! The problem is I've never delt with any snake so I don't know what my reaction would be if I saw one. By the way, I don't still eat "caracoles" -snails, which Spanish like to eat (not all Spanish, maybe). I'm likely to taste some snake rather than any bug, insect or snail. So, tastes differ!




daoxunchang said:


> I don't care for the monks and nuns. Many of them are very corrupted, just like those we've had in some dynasties. What I care for is the study of Buddhism. I know some "mundane" people who are very truly keen on this.
> DXC


It's a pity that Buddhist monks also may be corrupted. I thought that they were different...

Best wishes for you!


----------



## beakman

coconutpalm said:


> The legal working hour is 8 hours for five days per week, for office people,teachers, government employees, etc. And sometimes they have to work additional hours as all white collars do.
> For workers in factories, well, they have shifts, so it's hard to tell, but I think there's a upper limit. BUT, many factory owners are rubbish!
> However, the supply-demand relationship is changing. The current great shortage of farmer workers is a best examples. Cheers!


Hello once again! 
I just want to say that this situation is quite common and exists not only in China but in the rest of the world. For instance, here in Spain, particulary in Andalusia, there are also such factory owners who expect people to work more hours and cringing/ servil people who opt to work additional hours in order to "please" the manager .


----------



## daoxunchang

beakman said:


> 你好ni hao! 你wei!
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't mind, I'd make a correction . We don't say 你喂 ni wei. It's just 喂wei. But strictly speaking, it's not an expression for "greeting". It's just used between intimate friends in a near distance, often with a pat on the shoulder or something like that. It's more for drawing attention, I'd say. In a farther distance, you'd use 嗨hai to hail others . 嗨hai can also used in a near distance. Hmmmm, there are many other ways for these two words and other "greeting" words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One friend of mine was devoted to it, almost really obsessed by kung fu (Russian friend).
> 
> 
> 
> That's great! I hope I can practise kung fu, too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever seen the television series "Kung Fu" with David Carradine (as Kwai Chang Caine)? I guess you haven't, as it's from 70s-80s. I myself watched it on Spanish Television by chance in 90s. I liked it very much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know which series you are referring to. There are many kung fu series. But I've seen none of them. I'm not very keen on films.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a pity that Buddhist monks also may be corrupted. I thought that they were different...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't feel too much disillusioned, it's nothing if thinking of what has happened in the history. But you don't have the history.... then bear in mind that monks are also PEOPLE. There's one saying: 有人即有江湖 meaning "There are societies where there are people" --- I use society for 江湖 but actually the latter means more than society. It refers to a place or a situation or a world --- even the whole world that can be travelled in the speaker's mind--- where there are confusions, fights, or anything like that. There are always corrupted monks and nuns. Don't feel disappointed for this. Remember that there are also good monks and nuns .
> Best wishes for you!
> DXC
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## beakman

daoxunchang said:


> If you don't mind, I'd make a correction . We don't say 你喂 ni wei. It's just 喂wei. But strictly speaking, it's not an expression for "greeting". It's just used between intimate friends in a near distance, often with a pat on the shoulder or something like that. It's more for drawing attention, I'd say. In a farther distance, you'd use 嗨hai to hail others . 嗨hai can also used in a near distance. Hmmmm, there are many other ways for these two words and other "greeting" words. DXC


 
Thank you for your explanations! If I stay more on this thread I'll feel like starting learning Chinese at some language school!



daoxunchang said:


> I don't know which series you are referring to. There are many kung fu series. But I've seen none of them. I'm not very keen on films.


I don't know if exist many of them, because I only watched one I've mentioned. If you are curious, here I send you a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwai_Chang_Caine



daoxunchang said:


> "There are societies where there are people" --- I use society for 江湖 but actually the latter means more than society. It refers to a place or a situation or a world --- even the whole world that can be travelled in the speaker's mind--- where there are confusions, fights, or anything like that. There are always corrupted monks and nuns. Don't feel disappointed for this. Remember that there are also good monks and nuns .
> DXC


Thank you for good words!
Regards!


----------



## daoxunchang

beakman said:


> Thank you for your explanations! If I stay more on this thread I'll feel like starting learning Chinese at some language school!


Then I would be very very much pleased !
If you do begin to do this, please turn to me whenever you have a question. I'll try my best to help you .



> I don't know if exist many of them, because I only watched one I've mentioned. If you are curious, here I send you a link:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwai_Chang_Caine


I've opened this page and read it, but I still don't have the least idea as to who this actor is . But no need to bother with this. Maybe one day I'll just bump into his films .

All the best


----------



## Outsider

daoxunchang said:


> Ah! Sorry for my great carelessness! You asked about if their LANGUAGE has any simmilarity with the Peking dialect of Chinese! I'm so sorry for my mistake!
> No, I don't think they have much simmilarity. In common linguistic division. Tibetan and Chinese are in different language families.
> Again sorry for my mistake!


No, they are both Sino-Tibetan languages (though likely quite different from each other).


----------



## daoxunchang

Outsider said:


> No, they are both Sino-Tibetan languages (though likely quite different from each other).


Sorry for the mistake. Thanks for your correction, Outsider .


----------



## purpledragon

thank you DXC.it takes a long long time for me to come back to the forum.



beakman said:


> If I stay more on this thread I'll feel like starting learning Chinese at some language school!


it is a great thing you want to learn some Chinese.Although it is difficult, it is totally worth all the hard working.


----------



## beakman

purpledragon said:


> it is a great thing you want to learn some Chinese.Although it is difficult, it is totally worth all the hard working.


 
嗨hai, purpledragon! 嗨hai, everybody!
Purpledragon, you've reminded me about this interesting thread, thank you. As for my wish to learn Chinese, frankly, I'd love to. Hope some day it will grow strong intention!

Well, I've got some new questions for you  
My aunt is fond of Feng Shui (almost crazy about it!). I mean she always find "good feng shui" or "bad feng shui" everywhere and she thinks that all our life depend on it. I'd like to know if you share her belief. What do you think about it? Is it serious? I mean, all our life may depend on things which surround us? In general, is Feng shui so important in China? Do many people believe in it in China? (I calculate, it was 6-7 years ago when there was a Feng Shui boom in Russia, many Feng Shui pseudo-preachers turned up, many people became its followers).

I hope, you can explain me what Feng Shui really means (further than decoration).

Best regards!


----------



## purpledragon

hi,beakman.
The Fengshui is a real thing.It seriously affects the garden construction and horticulture in our country.But there are few people believe in it especially in big cities since the P.R.China was established. Maybe because this kind of belief is seemed as superstitious activities and the government doesn't advocate that.As to the origin of Fengshui I guess it comes from the primitive society. At that time to find a safe place to live is an important thing because human being are more weak than other animals. The perfect place is there are high ground at back and the plain in the front and rivers at the two sides. It is easier to find animals when they attack and have plenty of living materials .And to avoid bad weather, the ancients have to learn from the changing of plants and the moon or the star map. But the real spirit of Fengshui comes from a book named ZhouYi, and it is still in use by those Feng Shui pseudo-preachers now. Ironically,although this book is so important, no one knows the exact author.
sorry for my lousy English. I wish you could understand Fengshui a little more.


 Answer one question. 


coachmanu said:


> How long do you work per week.


Although I don't have a job right now, I think most people in our country work 8 hours per day,9am to 5pm. These days more people choose to work at home and they are called pink-collar.maybe because they could work wearing pajamas.Some of my friends do the pink-collar jobs and they work as translators or have their own shops in the internet.  

and


Tsoman said:


> The word I would use to describe Chinese-American culture (as in how it relates to me) is _secretive. _Like a members-only club. I'm not saying that in a negative way.


And thank you Tsoman.I guess the key of our 'club' is the Chinese language. They said that the relationship of Chinese culture and mandarin is like the circle and radius. The longer the radius, the bigger the circle.
Are you interested in that?


----------



## beakman

purpledragon said:


> hi,beakman.
> The Fengshui is a real thing.It seriously affects the garden construction and horticulture in our country.But there are few people believe in it especially in big cities since the P.R.China was established. Maybe because this kind of belief is seemed as superstitious activities and the government doesn't advocate that.As to the origin of Fengshui I guess it comes from the primitive society. At that time to find a safe place to live is an important thing because human being are more weak than other animals. The perfect place is there are high ground at back and the plain in the front and rivers at the two sides. It is easier to find animals when they attack and have plenty of living materials .And to avoid bad weather, the ancients have to learn from the changing of plants and the moon or the star map. But the real spirit of Fengshui comes from a book named ZhouYi, and it is still in use by those Feng Shui pseudo-preachers now. Ironically,although this book is so important, no one knows the exact author.


Thank you, Purpledragon, for your explanations about Fengshui. Really, it is a very interesting subject. I liked very much your comments about the origin of Fengshui, so clear and understandable. Frankly, I do think that everything in this world has its special importance, every little thing, every little animal and all of us came into this world not by chance. Feng Shui drew my attention because it teaches, in some sense, how to reach the harmony in our lives. Do you agree with me?

Well, I'd like to know what China is like. Could you describe the place where you live? If it is a big city´- are its streets narrow or spacious, clean or dirty; are there a lot of plants, trees, green parks? Or there is too much concrete and traffic and little place for nature, as it occurs in many Spanish cities (at least, at place where I live)?

Do Chinese people respect the nature, protect it or there is also soil speculation (when construction companies bribes the authorities and then, build where it was banned to build), as it occurs in Europe?

Do Chinese people are used to having pets in their homes?

What are your favourite sports? (By the way, I know that Chinese figure skating is very strong nowadays).




purpledragon said:


> Although I don't have a job right now, I think most people in our country work 8 hours per day,9am to 5pm. These days more people choose to work at home and they are called pink-collar.maybe because they could work wearing pajamas.Some of my friends do the pink-collar jobs and they work as translators or have their own shops in the internet.


If this so, you are lucky! Here ,in Andalusia, only government employees have this working hours. Normal people, have to work at least 9 hours per day 5 or 6 days a week. (from 8.00/9.00 a.m. to 14.00 p.m. and then from 17 p.m. to 21 p.m.- working almost all day long).
My best regards!
&
Good wishes!


----------



## purpledragon

> Could you describe the place where you live? If it is a big city´- are its streets narrow or spacious, clean or dirty; are there a lot of plants, trees, green parks? Or there is too much concrete and traffic and little place for nature, as it occurs in many Spanish cities (at least, at place where I live)?



Of course I can tell you something about our city if don't mind my poor English.I live in Beijing, the capital of China.Beijing is a big city.As other big cities, the development is uneven.In some place, the streets are very spacious such as chang'an street.It has at least 4 lines each direction,some part of the street has even more. Unfortunately,the traffic jam is still a big problem.I think the reason is not only the condition of roads or streets, the key to solve the problem is that everyone both the drivers and Pedestrians should obey the traffic rules.It is the same with the clean and dirty thing.Some place in the middle of the city is quite clean but the suburbs is dirty. The worst thing is the 'white pollution'.There are lots of plastic bags hanging on the twigs in the suburbs especially in winter because all the private markets use the Ultrathin plastic bags which are cheaper I guess.Tell enough of the bad side of my hometown, there are still some beautiful place to go.The Botanical Garden is a good place if you are a nature lover. It includes all the species of trees in Beijing.In autumm,the the leaves of maple tree turn red.It's amazing.If you like cultural landscape there are the Forbidden City,the Summer Palace,the Great Wall, Beihai Park and so on.Of course as a big city, the concret buildings do take some place of nature and I guess if the first president of P.R.China could adopt the advise of Liangsicheng at that time, the situation would be much better. These years the govenment built some green belt in and around the city and I think highly about that.




> Do Chinese people respect the nature, protect it or there is also soil speculation (when construction companies bribes the authorities and then, build where it was banned to build), as it occurs in Europe?



Unfortunately,this is a global issue. Our people do the same thing and some times even worse.To some factory owners, earning money is the most important thing in the world and they don't care pollute rivers and atmosphere.These person are really disgusting.



> Do Chinese people are used to having pets in their homes



Yes,they do. Chinese people raise animals thousands of years ago though at that time the main purpose is to use them as labors or food.These years people began to keep dogs or cats or other animals at home as pets.I had a dog too but since it grows too big to be suitable to be a pet according to the govenment law, I had to send it to a relative who lives in other province.I feel very sad about this .



> What are your favourite sports? (By the way, I know that Chinese figure skating is very strong nowadays).



Oh my God!I can't even skate. My favourite sports are swimming and table tennis.


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## coconutpalm

Just a few simple comments.
1. Don't need to think China as as alien a country as it was one hundred years ago. Again, I truly doubt whether we were so alien then. We are all humans. If we have different colors, hair, customs, some fundamental human natures are the same.
2. City dwellers have got used to keeping pets. Definitely not peasants, who keep animals as helpers and friends. 
3. As our Mr. Dragon noted, environmental issues are global. In china, as far as I know, the factors which make the situation even worse are corruption, ignorance, poor leadership (different from corruption), and inablity to keep a clean environment(no excuse, just fact), and overpopulation.

coco


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## Calamitintin

I spent 4 months in China (Chengdu, Sichuan) from May to September for an internship. I don't pretend to know everything about China, of course, but I noticed some "funny" behaviours (from my French point of view). I do not want to hurt Chinese people of course, I just wrote what I did not expect at all before living in this marvellous country (want to go back  ).
Sorry I did not translate for moment. As soon as I have time I promise I will do...





Voici donc quelques comportements qui m’ont frappée.

*1) Ne pas perdre la face*


  [ D’abord, les Chinois ne supportent pas de perdre la face, donc s’énervent rarement puisque pour eux, c’est synonyme. Cependant, dans le Sichuan, on verra souvent une femme crier après son mari (voire le frapper !), en pleine rue (les autres passants faisant sagement cercle autour d’eux pour les écouter !!!). Les gens appellent ces Sichuanaises les « spicy girls », toute référence à un quelconque girls band étant, pour le coup, totalement fortuit, et expliquent cette animosité par le fait qu’elles mangent beaucoup de piments, et par conséquent, en ont la fougue !  

*2) La  police*


  [Autre chose d’assez surprenant : la police est partout. Dans l’usine par exemple, il y a des gardes qui contrôlent les entrées et sorties, mais aussi à différents endroits de l’entreprise. Il y a des policiers qui contrôlent les entrées et sorties de ma résidence aussi. Ils sont très gentils d’ailleurs, me disent bonjour, acceptent des gâteaux quand je leur en propose… ! J’ai pensé que ce n’était peut-être pas l’armée partout, mais alors pourquoi portent-ils tous des uniformes… ? (et en l’occurrence pour ma résidence, il est clairement écrit «  police » à côté…) D’autre part, les policiers convoquent au poste pour un oui ou pour un non. Un Français n’a pas le droit d’habiter chez des Chinois par exemple. Je connaissais quelqu’un dans ce cas, qui disait pour ne pas avoir d’ennui qu’elle habitait avec un autre Français ; ils l’ont convoquée parce qu’elle ne rentrait pas souvent chez « elle » ! Et ils l’ont laissée repartir quand elle a dit qu’elle allait souvent chez son copain, qui n’habitait pas au même endroit ! Ou alors, quand on a un accident de voiture, même minime comme une plaque d’immatriculation déformée, on doit aller le signaler au commissariat ! Bref, ils sont très au courant de tout ce qu’il se passe !

*3) La  cantine*


  [Dans un tout autre ordre d’idée : à la cantine, en France, les gens mangent face à face, et quand on est 4, on forme un petit carré. En Chine non : ils s’assoient en rangées ! S’ils sont 10, ils vont tous se mettre côte à côte, et ce tant que la table est assez grande. Alors moi petite Française indisciplinée (je pense qu’ils font ça parce qu’ils ont toujours fait ça, mais que ça leur est égal…j’ai demandé quand même, on ne sait jamais, et ils étaient étonnés que j’aie remarqué ça !), je chamboule tout en m’asseyant en face. Du coup, comme il y a deux rangées commencées, ils se mettent indifféremment d’un côté ou de l’autre ! Je trouve ça assez drôle !

*4) Le mensonge par omission*


  [Quelque chose d’assez pénible quand on n’y est pas habitué : le mensonge par omission. Les Chinois ne répondront jamais plus que ce que vous leur avez demandé. Par exemple, si on fait réparer son vélo, et que c’est pressé, on va demander s’il re-roule, et le réparateur va vous dire « oui » si à l’instant présent il re-roule, en omettant de préciser que d’ici 50m on sera à nouveau à plat parce que la réparation n’est pas totalement finie !!! Ou alors, je pense qu’on peut le classer dans la même catégorie : quand je suis allée voir la réserve de pandas, il y avait un peu partout l’écriteau « Lac aux cygnes ». J’ai donc suivi l’écriteau pendant un bon moment pour voir ces fameux cygnes, jusqu'à un grand mur blanc, et là il n’y avait plus d’écriteau. En fait, ils indiquaient le lieu du lac aux cygnes, sans préciser qu’il n’était qu’EN CONSTRUCTION (derrière le mur blanc…)!!!! Encore un autre exemple et j’arrête pour les omissions. Pour visiter certains lieux au Tibet, il est nécessaire d’être en possession d’un permis de visite. Quand une amie est allée au Tibet, elle n’a pas pu visiter tout ce qu’elle aurait voulu car son permis ne couvrait pas tout. Elle a appris plus tard qu’il était possible d’avoir un permis pour tout, et a demandé à l’agent de voyage pourquoi il ne lui avait pas dit…Question idiote : « Bah, vous ne me l’avez pas demandé ! »

*4) Comment (ne pas) traverser la route*


  [Un week-end que je me promenais en ville avec Chen Mingzhe, un de mes collègues, je voulais traverser la route, et il n’y avait personne, donc j’ai traversé. Chen Mingzhe m’a alors expliqué qu’il y a quelques années, il était rigoureusement interdit de traverser en dehors des passages piétons, et que c’était d’ailleurs toujours déconseillé. Avant, si un policier vous prenait en train de traverser en dehors du passage, il vous faisait porter un petit drapeau pour signaler la présence du passage piéton, et ce, jusqu'à ce que quelqu’un d’autre traverse à côté !!! On peut comprendre qu’ils hésitent …Chen Mingzhe m’a dit aussi une fois qu’il était dangereux de traverser devant ou derrière moi : les Chinois étant très curieux, s’ils voient un Laowai (un étranger…), surtout un blond, ils vont regarder, sans forcement faire très attention à leur route !!!  

*5) Crachats*


  [Quelque chose qu’il est difficile de ne pas remarquer : les Chinois crachent partout, tout le temps, c’est dégoûtant. Et pas un petit crachat de rien du tout : c’est souvent accompagné d’un bruit répugnant de raclement de gorge. En pleine rue, ça ne les dérange absolument pas. Ce qui est choquant, c’est quand une jolie jeune fille, coquette, bien habillée, se met elle aussi à se racler la gorge bruyamment et à cracher en pleine rue…Il paraît que cela fait partie de leur « religion médicinale » : ne rien garder de mauvais en soi.

*6) Proprete des lieux publics*


  [Si les routes sont propres, ce n’est pas parce que les gens font attention et ne jettent rien par terre. Le chauffeur de taxi veut prendre un chewing-gum : il enlève le plastique et le jette par la fenêtre. Un papier qu’on ne sait pas ou mettre…par terre ! Un superbe endroit de montagne avec un petit lac…on jette un papier dedans…La main-d’œuvre n’étant pas très chère, il y a en permanence quelqu’un qui balaye de toute façon…Souvent des retraités d’ailleurs. Dans les restaurants, ou à la cantine, c’est un peu la même chose. Pour une raison que j’ignore (solution de facilité ?), les petits morceaux de viande ou de poisson ne sont jamais des-ossés ou des-arêtés. Selon toute vraisemblance, ils mettent le morceau entier de viande dans le mixeur, ou sous le hachoir selon les moyens du restaurant, avec les os. Donc forcément il en reste. Les Chinois pensent que ça change le goût, en bien…Je ne sais pas, mais ce n’est pas très confortable à manger… ! Du coup, on recrache les petits bouts. Dans sa serviette quand on est Française, sur la table ou par terre quand on est Chinois. Quelqu’un viendra nettoyer après notre départ…Ce qui fait que quand un groupe de Chinois quitte leur table de restaurant, c’est souvent extrêmement sale.


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## Calamitintin

*(and the end)

7) Cigarettes*


  [Quelque chose qui est vraiment détestable : la cigarette !!!! Si les filles qui fument sont rares (ce sont de mauvaises filles, dixit une non-fumeuse), les hommes fument presque tous. N’ importe où, n’importe quand, au plus parfait mépris des non-fumeurs. Pendant les réunions, ils fument, dans les ascenseurs, ils fument, dans les bureaux, ils fument et même dans la voiture qui nous a ramenés à Chengdu un soir !!! C’est vraiment pénible. Ma tutrice m’a dit un jour que je devrai peut-être changer de bureau pour travailler avec l’un des ingénieurs, je lui ai assuré que je préférais faire les allers-retours, l’air du bureau en question étant irrespirable : il n’y a que des fumeurs, et des gros fumeurs !!! Par contre ils ne fument que du tabac, même s’il est facile selon les Français de se procurer du cannabis et d’en fumer, parce que les Chinois ne savent pas ce que c’est ! Cependant, ils sont curieux. Une Française m’a dit que dans certains bars, on pouvait fumer si on était discret, sinon les Chinois risquent de s’intéresser à cette cigarette qui a une odeur bizarre et qui fait beaucoup de fumée, demander à goûter, etc. !

*8) Boisson*


  [Des qu’on s’assoit dans un bureau (par exemple celui de l’aéroport pour demander les bagages perdus…), ou autour d’une table pour une réunion, ou à la sortie d’un salon de massage pour attendre la personne qui accompagne, il y a toujours quelqu’un pour vous apporter un verre…de thé, parfois, d’eau chaude souvent ! Les Chinois ne boivent pas, ou peu, d’eau froide ou tempérée, elle est toujours bouillante. D’ailleurs si en France les distributeurs proposent de l’eau froide ou de l’eau tempérée, en Chine ils proposent de l’eau tiède ou de l’eau bouillante. Ils appellent ça le thé, ou la soupe du pauvre. Ou alors ils prennent leur bol de riz et vont au distributeur d’eau mettre de l’eau chaude dedans. Cela fait une sorte de soupe au riz peu ragoûtante pour l’Occidentale que je suis.

*9) A l’hopital*


  [Ayant eu le mauvais goût de tomber malade, j’ai eu l’occasion d’aller voir le médecin en Chine. D’abord, on ne va pas voir le médecin, mais on va à l’hôpital…Allez dire à vos amis que vous êtes allés a l’hôpital sans les inquiéter…Mais si, ici c’est normal. Ensuite on choisit son médecin. Là je ne pourrais pas trop dire comment on le choisit : il y a leur photo et à côté un texte en chinois, peut-être que le texte énumère leurs spécialités, ce qui semblerait logique, peut-être est-ce tout autre chose et on choisit selon la photo, je ne sais pas. Mon collègue a choisi pour moi, je lui ai fait confiance. Il est aussi précisé s’ils pratiquent la médecine chinoise ou la médecine occidentale. On va alors voir le médecin, qui est dans un petit bureau où tout le monde entre et sort, pendant la consultation, c’est assez étrange. Puis selon ce qu’il a observé, il demande des analyses de sang ou une observation des poumons ou autre…Comme on est à l’hôpital, tout se fait sur place ! 10 minutes plus tard, les examens étaient faits, mon doigt piqué pour avoir une goutte de sang, la goutte de sang était analysée, et on retourne chez le médecin avec les résultats, qui prescrit alors les médicaments. Médicaments qu’on achète également à l’hôpital. Dans mon cas, j’avais prudemment demandé de la médecine occidentale, en fait je n’ai eu que la « dose de médicaments pour Occidental ». C’est de la médecine chinoise en pilule, et en quantité astronomique, mes collègues m’ont assurée qu’il n’y en avait jamais autant !

*10) Comment epeler en chinois ?*


  [La question peut paraître étrange, mais je me la suis posée bien des fois quand je ne savais pas écrire tel ou tel caractère. J’ai eu ma réponse :
 Chaque caractère est en fait constitué de sous-parties que l’on retrouve dans de nombreux autres caractères et se prononcent d’une certaine façon. –Un exemple que m’avait donné mon professeur de chinois, un tantinet féministe : la “clé de la femme”, “nü女”, se retrouve dans la plupart des défauts ! –. Il suffit donc de dire : (de gauche à droite et de haut en bas, mais c’est généralement intuitif car la plupart des sous-parties de caractères se retrouvent toujours au même endroit, comme le Coeur, xin (心) par exemple, toujours en bas, comme dans le vous de politesse, nin : 您)  : “hao (好)” s’écrit avec le “nü (女)” de “nü’er (女儿) ”, et le “zi (子)” de “haizi (孩子)” !

*11) Les canons de la beaute*


   [Si le dernier chic en France est d’avoir une peau halée, et qu’un teint trop blanc est qualifié de maladif (ne dit–on pas ”blanc comme un cachet d’aspirine” ?), en Chine c’est le contraire. Ma tutrice, très jolie selon moi, (et selon d’autres avis français d’après photo) car elle a des traits très fins, a été qualifiée de laide par une autre : “personne ne la trouverait jolie !” parce qu’elle a le teint plus foncé des gens du nord. Cette recherche de la blancheur à tout prix donne lieu à des séries sans fin de publicités pour des produits de beauté blanchissant la peau, à la floraison de milliers de parapluies dans les rues dès qu’il y a un rayon de soleil pour rester à l’ombre, à des regards d’envie vers ma peau d’occidentale plutôt pâle, et à cette remarque de ma tutrice à qui je demandais quand elle irait sur le site pour pouvoir l’accompagner : « quand il y aura moins de soleil ! » Je pense aussi, mais ce n’est peut-être qu’une impression ou une illusion d’optique, que les images de publicité, que ce soient des photos ou à la télévision, ont des contrastes renforcés pour accentuer la blancheur des peaux !!! Et puisqu’on parle de beauté, les premières choses que regarde la très grande majorité des hommes chinois chez les femmes sont leurs jambes, qu’elles n’hésitent d’ailleurs pas à montrer en portant des jupes ou des shorts très (très) courts !

*12) Un Dimanche en Chine*


   [Inutile de se calfeutrer chez soi pour profiter de l’air climatisé en pensant que de toute façon tout est fermé ! Tout est ouvert : la poste, les banques, Auchan, au même titre que n’importe quel autre jour de la semaine. Mes collègues ont d’ailleurs été extrêmement étonnés d’apprendre que tout était fermé en France le dimanche… « Mais…c’est le jour où ils font le plus gros chiffre d’affaire !!! »…Repos dominical oblige…Il est de plus un peu étonnant les premiers jours de constater que tout est ouvert jusque très tard, 22 ou 23h souvent.


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## daoxunchang

coconutpalm said:


> Just a few simple comments.
> 1. Don't need to think China as as alien a country as it was one hundred years ago. Again, I truly doubt whether we were so alien then. We are all humans. If we have different colors, hair, customs, some fundamental human natures are the same.


Unlike coconutpalm, who is always stressing the point that we are all humans and that we are not as alien as it might be, I am more inclined to look at the points which show that we are all strangers after all and to stand on these points to try to figure out what the "others" are like. Actually that's the way we all are going --- to look at others from our point of view or from the reversed point of our view (Sorry for this awkward expression). It might be one thing to be sad about sometimes but, seen from the other side, it's really a great thing for us. We examine ourselves, look at others, and then understand others a little bit more.



> 2. City dwellers have got used to keeping pets. Definitely not peasants, who keep animals as helpers and friends.


Haha, why do you think so? helpers and friends? Not necessary. 
But to answer the question: yes, more and more people are keeping pets. Not only city dwellers, some wealthy country people are also keeping them.



> 3. As our Mr. Dragon noted, environmental issues are global. In china, as far as I know, the factors which make the situation even worse are corruption, ignorance, poor leadership (different from corruption), and inablity to keep a clean environment(no excuse, just fact), and overpopulation.


In China, these problems are always in a bunch.


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## coconutpalm

What should I do?  Never have I seen such a loooooooooong post! Wow! Fortunately that I know a little French, so I will try my best to post my replies to your interestingobservation --- you think some of the comportments are funny, and I in turn think some of your comments are interesting: isn't this funny? .
Note: My french is quite poor, so I may miss some of your points or misudnerstand some. If so, please kindly point them out to me.

*1) Ne pas perdre la face*
I "assure" you that's not exclusive to those Sichuan "spicy girls", dear Calamitintin. However, I don't think the application of "spicy girls" to the woman is not very suitable. We have another word for her: 泼妇virago. Spicy girls are lovely while viragoes are distasteful.
However, your comment of chinese people's caring about our face is not wrong. Some day before, on a Chinese forum, we were discussing whether the degradation of the behaviors of 爱面子(caring for the face) is truly right, or is simply because Chinese culture has become somewhat disadvantaged in the globalization process and fast-pacing industrial world.

*2) La police*
I nearly laughed my head off！Oh, my!
They are definitely not police. They are guards. Of course they wear uniforms, or who will think they are authorized? Guards in France don't wear uniforms?! I'm quited curious!

Your observation of "logement"(I'm not sure whether it's the right word) is the same with mine, sadly to say so.
Then don't think they are discriminating against foreigners. College students are legally allowed to get married only one or two years ago. Students of opposite sexes can't enter each other's dormitory building without permission, which is granted only when you have some "reasonable" reason.
I think you wouldn't have got surprised with this if you had known that one hundred years, we get married totally under arragements of parents, and some twenty years ago, it's a "shame" to walk in public with your boyfriend/girlfriend if you hold your hands together. 
However, I always think it's too uncomprehensible and unreasonable for university authorities not to consider the different cultures of foreign students.

*3) La cantine*
I AM SUPRISED, too! 
I have been to Peking University, Qsinghua University, Chinese Minery University（in Beijing), Anhui UniversityIin Anhui Province), and I myself is studying in one of the universities in Hebei Provinces, I haven't seen such table arrangements. From what I hear from my friends, they don't, either. 
Is it because Sichuan is the North-western part of China? My friends are mainly in the southern part.

*4) Le mensonge par omission*
I'm sorry for your experience. I find it one of the most distastful behaviors of Chinese, too. However, there's indeed some differences.
Firstly, I'm sorry to say that some people intentionally cheat foreigners if they are not accompanied with a Chinese, which is probably true in your bicycle case.
Second, visition permission? Oh, some people who has some "authority", or some "right" in hand, they behave in a way that's sooooooooo awful! They often make me sick, I assure you.

*4) Comment (ne pas) traverser la route*
I'm not discriminating, but it's true that north-western area in China is far less developed than other areas. 
Yet you also said your Chinese friend has said it clearly that it's "several years ago". HOwever, I'm again sorry to say that some people are totally brazen in humiliating foreigners, or mocking them, assuming that they don't understand the universal rude gestures or Chinese. That's not educational question. Illiterate people can be really really kind while some college students are ....... (sorry, I said those f**k words to myself because I don't want to pollute this forum) 

*5) Crachats*
*6) Proprete des lieux publics*

And these two?
What can I say?
How can I defend?

The situation is indeed improving, among those educated, but don't assume that education guarants everything.
(sighing)
that's all I can say.

*7) Cigarettes*
If education doesn't make some people spit or shed litters less, I think in this case, it does take effect on them. 
And for other people, at least they don't smoke in Non-Smoking Area, as far as I have observed in the railway stations and other public areas.

*8) Boisson*
Interesting observation!
You can't drink your tea with cold water, can you? hehe
However, beverage consumption is rising at an astonishing rate, especially among the younger generation. 
Personally, I prefer hot tea or hot water, not lukewarm.

*9) A l’hopital*
You really should have taken a Chinese friend with you, my dear friend. 
The board where the pictures and introductions are posted is not a direction for you to choose a doctor. People are lined up, see the doctor on duty, and that's all. 
If we can choose a doctor, it's definitely not in a public hospital. Again, it is simply impossible for such a huge population to CHOOSE from a relatively tiny population of doctors. Horrible, I'd say.
As what I have noted many times, overpopulation is indeed one of the biggest reality of China.

*10) Comment epeler en chinois ?*
This one?
hehe, no comment.
You have to learn Chinese to understand it, or simply accept the deplorable fact. ^^

*11) Les canons de la beaute*
Ah, purely cultural differences.
We even have a saying: However you're ugly, if you have a beautiful blanc skin, you can be 90% pretier!

*12) Un Dimanche en Chine*
hehe, if I went to France, I would be shocked, or may even be angry if I have no food in store on a Sunday! 
I guess that's because we don't have Christianity.

Long post! Phew!

My last observation concerning overseas students in our country(I'm even less familiar with other foreingers):
I really think our authorities are unreasonable on this issue, to seperate overseas students from us. Yes, we can visit each other, and make good friends, but what else?
Foreingers can only understand another country and another people by living together and having no priviligies---- yes, I'm talking about priviliges. 
From what I read in your post, I think most of the misunderstanding arises because NO ONE tells you that this is just right or normal in this country that does have many many differences from you. 

Kind regards,
coco


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## purpledragon

Thanks for your translation,coco. 


> 1)Ne pas perdre la face


I think caring for one's face is the good tradition of Chinese.But these years maybe the pace of life is too fast, and have too much pressure on the shoulder, more and more people have bad temper. The Sichuan girls you talk about is one example.I guess maybe every country has to experience this kind of phase sooner or later.So this kind of behavior should be forgiven. About the relation of peppers and bad temper, my opinion is it is kind of similes. Our people like to use eat(吃),maybe because the food culture of thousands of years. For example, 吃惊(suprised),it doesn't mean really eat something, it is just kind of expression.



> 3)La cantine
> I AM SUPRISED, too!
> I have been to Peking University, Qsinghua University, Chinese Minery University（in Beijing), Anhui UniversityIin Anhui Province), and I myself is studying in one of the universities in Hebei Provinces, I haven't seen such table arrangements.



I haven't seen such thing either.Maybe because the tables in our university can only sit 4 person. But we do like to eat face to face.



> 4) Le mensonge par omission


This is because the laziness of the bureaucracy.Our officers don't have the idea that they are serving the people.Maybe the Feudal society of our country are too long and they still feel they are people's parents(I want to say父母官but I don't how to translate it.)



> 5)Crachats


It is really a bad habbit. I do feel nausea when I see the mark of sputum or the gum.It will take cleaners tons of time to clean those thing.



> 7) Cigarettes


Thank God all the smokers can't smoke in buses now. I really wish the elevators would be our next non-smoke place.By the way, it is really exaggerated to say that all men smoke.



> 8) Boisson


We people live in Beijing(I don't know the situation of other province) have to boil the water before drink because minerals in our water are too high to use.
As to put hot water into rice bowl, some people just have that habit.Maybe eat faster by this way.


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## luis masci

First of all, I want to thank you folks to give us such interesting information about China. 
I think that reading it I’ve learned more than if I would be traveling.
It was very interesting to see what Calamitintin was saying and the replies of Daoxunchang Coconutpal and Purpledragon. 
By the way... I would like to add one more questions if you don’t mind: 
All we know how dangerous are Western big cities, especially in the night (drugs, gangsters, thieves, prostitution, etc). How safe do you feel walking down the street in the night in a big China city?


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## purpledragon

When I was a child, you can totally walk safely at night in Beijing though there were fewer streetlights at that time.But these years maybe because the big gap between rich and poor,thieves and gangsters are not rare thing.Especially thieves,saying goes,if you have never lost one of your bikes you might not a real Beijingers.Gangsters are not that common.
Prostitution is totally illegal.Ironically,the fine of those prostitutes and their customers is the main source of the policemen's income.
Drugs are illegal too.But I heard that there are also dealers in bars or some place. I've never met by myself anyway.


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## luis masci

Thank you Purple, seems you are gaining the capitalist “benefices” according you are getting more Western (I hope you also are getting the good Western things. It is not easy find one but looking up carefully I’m sure we can find up any)
Let me one more question if you don’t mind. Calamitintin has mentioned China’s publicity. Here in Western a lot of publicity are based in impacting through women’s beautiful to get the men’s attention. I mean... they show young and beautiful girls in sexy provocative attitude to promote anything. 
Would you tell us how is it in China? Are they using the same trick? Aaaah and also if your models are anorexic like here they are. 
Thank you


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## purpledragon

Several months ago I heard there was a car show in Beijing or some place I can't remember. In that show they hired some beautiful girl wearing mini-skirt stood by those cars.And these car models really attracted lots of people to the show.In TV advertisements,magazine covers and posters we also can see beautiful ladies. So our businessmen use the same trick as other western countries. The world becomes smaller and smaller, and China is not the secret orient country.As coco said we are the same.
As to the anorexic thing,I guess they do that.Or else how can they keep that amazing shape.


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## daoxunchang

I think so. Beauty always works as a promotion means. But I'm not sure whether this means has been used to the extreme in ALL fields, but surely in SOME fields.


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## purpledragon

Yes.And I don't think it is a bad thing.After all everybody like beautiful things.


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