# Persian: برشتن



## aisha93

Hi

How do you say this verb in present tense?

Thanks


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## ebrahim

aisha93 said:


> Hi
> 
> How do you say this verb in present tense?
> 
> Thanks


I our local dialect we say "ابریزم" (eberizom), (eberizi), (eberizeh), (eberizim), (eberizin), (eberizen). But in standard Persian I think we have to say "برشته میکنم" etc.


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## Treaty

The present tense for this verb is not used in standard Persian any more (or probably even in Classic Persian). It should have been بریز (as in Middle Persian _brēz_).


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## aisha93

How interesting. 
We say it this way in Larestani too.

So what verb is used instead of it? 
Does (تفت دادن) mean the same?


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## PersoLatin

^ Found this on Dehkhoda:
و چنانکه گندم و شاهدانه و امثال آن را بر تابه به آتش نهادن بی آب . بو دادن . (یادداشت مؤلف ). تاب دادن

خاک عشق دمیده ست دانه ام صائب
به آتش رخ گل می توان *برشت* مرا


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## Treaty

There are many examples for the usage of its past stem in Classic Persian but there is no present tense.


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## aisha93

Thank you

It's strange though that the present form is very different from the past form
I think it (i.e. بریز) comes from a different verb
Because there's mixtures between some other verbs in our accent too like > هشتن and هلیدن
for past tense we use (هشتن) but for present we use (هلیدن)!!
for example:
> بهل حرف بزنم (let me speak) or > میهلی حرف بزنم (will you let me speak?)
> نهشتی حرف بزنم (you didn't let me speak)


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## PersoLatin

aisha93 said:


> Because there's mixtures between some other verbs in our accent too like > هشتن and هلیدن
> for past tense we use (هشتن) but for present we use (هلیدن)!!


هشتن is a variation of گُذاشتن or maybe even its original form. The 'l' in the present stem hel/hal-هل might have been an 'r' initially, so her/harهر might have been the correct form, this is based on the following: Looking at the past stems *هشت *and *گُذاشت*, you can see *گُذا *has been replaced with *ه*, the present stem of *گُذاشتن *is *گُذار*, so if you replace *گُذا *with *ه*, you'll get her/harهِر and r>l gives you hel/hal هل.

Of course now هلیدن has become a separate verb with the same meaning as گُذاشتن and هشتن. A parallel to this is jostan, past stem:jost, psnt stem:ju and from the present stem, جوئیدن has been developed with exactly the same meaning as جُستن.


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## PersoLatin

Treaty said:


> It should have been بریز (as in Middle Persian _brēz_).


I had not heard of _brēz _before, I checked and I believe *بریز*, *بِرشته* and therefore *ابریز* are related to PIE *bhre- "burn, heat": 
braise (v.) 


1797, from French braiser "to stew" (17c.), from braise "live coals," from Old French brese "embers" (12c.), ultimately from West Germanic *brasa (as is Italian bragia, Spanish brasa), from PIE *bhre- "burn, heat" (see brawn). Related: Braised; braising.


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## aisha93

Thanks persolatin
I think you're right because in some accents they say > بهر instead of بهل or بیل


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## PersoLatin

aisha93 said:


> I think it (i.e. بریز) comes from a different verb





ebrahim said:


> I our local dialect we say "ابریزم" (eberizom), (eberizi), (eberizeh), (eberizim), (eberizin), (eberizen). But in standard Persian I think we have to say "برشته میکنم" etc.


Compare برشتن with نوشتن:
The present stem of نوشتن is نويس, the present stem of برشتن should be therefore be بريس or بريز, as Treaty has already said. Of course بريس and بريز are the imperative forms for ريسيدن & ريختن, and that might explain why بريس/بريز became obsolete, except of course for those clever people who made a small modification (ابريزم) & carried on using it


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## ebrahim

PersoLatin said:


> Of course بريس and بريز are the imperative forms for ريسيدن & ريختن, and that might explain why بريس/بريز became obsolete, except of course for those clever people who made a small modification (ابريزم) & carried on using it


Just to elaborate more we add a vowel ('e' or 'i') at the beginning of almost all the verbs for their present tenses. i.e. every verb in our dialect starts with '*اِ*'.  The present tense of verb "ریختن"  is as follows: اریزُم، اریزی، اریزه (erizom) etc. If we want to tell somebody to grill something we would say بریزنش (beriznesh=grill it) and for telling someone to "pour something" we would say بریزش.  We use a completely different verb for ریسیدن.


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## PersoLatin

ebrahim said:


> we would say بریزنش (beriznesh=grill it)


Very interesting, to follow the normal rules of Persian verb conjugation, you'd expect the imperative be ببريزش, 
i.e. ب+ بريز + ش, same as بريزش or ب+ ريز + ش, or بزنش, ببرش, بشويش etc.

ebrahim, can you tell us what area of Iran this dialect is from? Is it Lori by any chance?


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## ebrahim

PersoLatin said:


> Very interesting, to follow the normal rules of Persian verb conjugation, you'd expect the imperative be ببريزش,
> i.e. ب+ بريز + ش, same as بريزش or ب+ ريز + ش, or بزنش, ببرش, بشويش etc.


I was racking my brain to find another example with the same structure but I couldn't find any other.  I suppose it went under a modification process in order not to be confused with verb ریختن. I really don't have any idea about how it should be looked at in terms of word evolution.



PersoLatin said:


> ebrahim, can you tell us what area of Iran this dialect is from? Is it Lori by any chance?


My dialect is one of the sub-branches of Bakhtiari dialect. A county named Lordegan located in Chaharmahal va Bakhtiari province. However our dialect is not a typical Bakhtiari dialect.


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## aisha93

> Very interesting, to follow the normal rules of Persian verb conjugation, you'd expect the imperative be ببريزش, i.e. ب+ بريز + ش, same as بريزش or ب+ ريز + ش, or بزنش, ببرش, بشويش etc.


the imperative in Larestani is ببریز indeed
but we'll not say ببریزش we'll say اش ببریز because the last ش which comes at the end in Persian comes at the beginning in our accent
for example:
> بخورش > اش بخور
> بگیرشون > شون بگیر
etc


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## PersoLatin

^ it'll be great if you & ebrahim can provide more of these wonderful word & verb constructions on the forum.

BTW aisha93, do ام بخور ,اى بخور or اند بخور work too?


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## aisha93

Only ام بخور is correct and it means > eat me  بخورم
the rest go like this:
> ام بخور > eat me
> اش بخور > eat it
> مون بخور > eat us
> شون بخور > eat them


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## ebrahim

aisha93 said:


> > ام بخور > eat me
> > اش بخور > eat it
> > مون بخور > eat us
> > شون بخور > eat them


These object pronoun constructions are quite weird to my ear. I've never heard them before.


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## aisha93

^
this is nothing, you haven't seen anything yet haha
there're much more grammatical features in our accent that will make you absolutely astonished!!


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## ebrahim

aisha93 said:


> ^
> this is nothing, you haven't seen anything yet haha
> there're much more grammatical features in our accent that will make you absolutely astonished!!


Could you please bring us some more examples?


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## aisha93

Sure but i don't think that's allowed here because it's clearly off topic


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## PersoLatin

^This is too good to miss & we can do it in a new thread, but can't think of an appropriate title.


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## Derakhshan

ebrahim said:


> If we want to tell somebody to grill something we would say بریزنش (beriznesh=grill it)


We would say (in our dialect of Larestani):

_oš-beberzen _= Roast it!

Also,

_ošberzena _= He roasted (it).
_berzehest _= It roasted. [intransitive]
_aberzenom_ = I roast. [transitive]
_aberzehom_ = I roast. [intransitive]


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