# Hindi, Urdu: قرار / क़रार - सुकून / سکن



## MonsieurGonzalito

In the following verses of a song:

तेरे  बिना  न  आए  सुकून ना  आए  क़रार  मुझे  = Without you, neither tranquility (_sukun_) nor peace of mind  (_qarar_) come to me.

I would like to know if आए is plural because:

a) both words are singular, but that is how the न - न  construction always works (i.e. the verb in plural agrees with the composite subject, like in English)

or

b) idiomatically in Hindi those words are used in plural, and they would be literally translated as "tranquilities don't come to me, peaces of mind don't come to me/ I don't find rests"


(qarār ānā + oblique = to find rest. or rest*s*?)

Thanks in advance.


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## Alfaaz

MonsieurGonzalito said:
			
		

> I would like to know if आए is plural because:
> a) that is how the न - न construction always works (i.e. the verb in plural agrees with the composite subject, like in English)
> b) idiomatically in Hindi those words are used in plural, and they would be literally translated as "tranquilities don't come to me, peaces of mind don't come to me"
> c) those words being both Perso-arabic, they are of the "invariable plural" type, like दरिया / دریا (_the waters, i.e., the river),_ and always require plural.


I'm unfortunately not good at explaining grammar, but the following points can be mentioned:

_aa'e _is not plural/is not indicative of _sukuun _and _qaraar _being plural in this case.
سکون  - _sukuun_ and قرار  - _qaraar_ are both singular in the quoted example. (There is currently a typo in the thread title for _sukuun_. The letter _waa'o_ is missing.)
All three words are of Arabic origin.
However, the origin doesn't necessarily lead to the "invariable plural".
Example: _chain _is of Indic origin, but the construction would still be _chain nah aa'e_. 
The thing that is common between all of these words is that they are masculine. One aspect is as follows:
Masculine (_oblique_): _laRk*aa* kitaab paRh rahaa hai. laRk*e* ne kitaab paRh lii hai. _
Feminine: _laRk*ii* kitaab paRh rahii hai. laRk*ii* ne kitaab paRh lii hai._ 
Masculine (_invariable plural_): _woh shajar/daraxt/peR nayaa hai. woh shajar/daraxt/peR na'e haiN._
Feminine: _woh sabzii achchii hai. woh sabziy*aaN* achchii haiN. _ 




Another aspect relevant to your example: _niind _is feminine, yet the construction could still remain _niind nah aa'e. _
 The grammar experts will hopefully explain everything in more detail!


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## desi4life

Alfaaz said:


> All three words are of Arabic origin.


I know that _qaraar _and _sukuun _are Arabic. What is the third word?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Alfaaz said:


> I'm unfortunately not good at explaining grammar, but the following points can be mentioned:
> 
> _aa'e _is not plural/is not indicative of _sukuun _and _qaraar _being plural in this case.
> سکون  - _sukuun_ and قرار  - _qaraar_ are both singular in the quoted example. (There is currently a typo in the thread title for _sukuun_. The letter _waa'o_ is missing.)
> All three words are of Arabic origin.
> However, the origin doesn't necessarily lead to the "invariable plural".
> Example: _chain _is of Indic origin, but the construction would still be _chain nah aa'e_.
> The thing that is common between all of these words is that they are masculine. One aspect is as follows:
> Masculine (_oblique_): _laRk*aa* kitaab paRh rahaa hai. laRk*e* ne kitaab paRh lii hai. _
> Feminine: _laRk*ii* kitaab paRh rahii hai. laRk*ii* ne kitaab paRh lii hai._
> Masculine (_invariable plural_): _woh shajar/daraxt/peR nayaa hai. woh shajar/daraxt/peR na'e haiN._
> Feminine: _woh sabzii achchii hai. woh sabziy*aaN* achchii haiN. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another aspect relevant to your example: _niind _is feminine, yet the construction could still remain _niind nah aa'e. _
> The grammar experts will hopefully explain everything in more detail!





desi4life said:


> I know that _qaraar _and _sukuun _are Arabic. Which is the third word you're referring to?



My fault sorry. I had added dariya (دریا) at first as an example, but removed it afterwards.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

@Alfaaz Sir, first of all, thank you for your clarifications. I can't edit titles, but you are right, the wa is missing.

Second (please don't hate me) if _aa'e_ is not plural, then it is oblique.

Why? The subjects of the sentence would be sukun and qarar, (or chain in your own example), and all are in direct case.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

To ask it in simpler terms, why it is

मुझे चैन न आए      instead of     मुझे चैन न आया  ?


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## Alfaaz

MonsieurGonzalito said:
			
		

> @Alfaaz Sir, first of all, thank you for your clarifications. I can't edit titles, but you are right, the wa is missing.
> 
> Second (please don't hate me) if _aa'e_ is not plural, then it is oblique.
> 
> Why? The subjects of the sentence would be sukun and qarar, (or chain in your own example), and all are in direct case.





			
				MonsieurGonzalito said:
			
		

> To ask it in simpler terms, why it is
> 
> मुझे चैन न आए instead of मुझे चैन न आया ?


You're welcome. Rest assured, there is absolutely no reason for hatred of any kind! Your questions are great and provide learning opportunities!  

It seems the difference in forms indicates _past, present, or future_.  

_mujhe chain nah aa'e (hai) _- _Solace/Peace does not come to me. - I do not get solace/peace._

Another way to state this could be: _mujhe chain nahiiN aataa_.
_mujhe chain nah aayaa - I did not get solace/peace._

_mujhe chain nah aayaa thaa - I had not gotten solace. _
_mujhe chain nah aayaa hai. - I have not gotten solace._
_aa'e _can also be used to express a wish (future). Example with multiple such _-e_ forms:

نیند نہ آئے رات بھر بھٹکے ادھر ادھر نظر
چین کی ہو دعا مگر چین کہیں نہ پائے دل
​تیرا کسی پہ آئے دل تیرا کوئی دکھائے دل
تو بھی کلیجا تھام کار مجھسے کہے کہ ہائے دل

از اردو فلم میری زندگی ہے نغمہ ١٩٧٢​
_niind nah aa'e raat bhar bhaTke idhar udhar nazar_
_chain kii ho du3aa magar chain kahiiN nah paa'e dil_

_teraa kisii peh aa'e dil teraa ko'ii dukhaa'e dil
tu bhii kalejaa thaam kar mujhse kahe keh haa'e dil

az Urdu film Meri Zindagi Hai Naghma (1972)
_
Literary examples:
جو ہونے والا ہے ہو کر رہے گا میرؔ آخر
مگر مجال ہے دل کو کہیں *قرار آئے *

میر بشیر​_jo hone vaalaa hai ho kar rahe gaa "Miir" aaxir_
_magar majaal hai dil ko kahiiN *qaraar aa'e*_

_Meer Basheer_
پیام آئے ہیں اس یارِ بے وفا کے مجھے
جسے* قرار نہ آیا *کہیں بھلا کے مجھے

احمد فراز
​_payaam aa'e haiN us yaar-e-bewafaa ke mujhe
jise* qaraar nah aayaa *kahiiN bhulaa ke mujhe

Ahamd Faraz
_
Note: _payaam _is plural, indicated by _aa'e_, in the couplet above. 

Corrections of any potential mistakes and grammatical explanations by other forum members would be highly appreciated!


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## desi4life

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> My fault sorry. I had added dariya (دریا) at first as an example, but removed it afterwards.



Thanks. I think it's a Persian word though rather than Arabic.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thanks again, @Alfaaz

I have been digging a little more: t could be simple, negated subjunctive? आए is also 3rd person singular subjunctive.
From your examples:
_
mujhe chain nah aayaa  = not subjunctive =  Solace has not come to me / I haven't got solace  (definitive, stating it for a fact)
mujhe chain nah aa'e  = subjunctive =  Solace would come to me / I would not get solace  (annoyance, future uncertainty) _

(The English "would" itself is not great to express this, but you get the idea).


Incidentally, I found something interesting in my little grammar book: "nah" is always used to negate subjunctive, but never "nahiiN".
The verses in the song, and those of your examples that most clearly can be viewed as subjunctive, also use "nah".


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## Dib

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> I have been digging a little more: t could be simple, negated subjunctive? आए is also 3rd person singular subjunctive.
> [/USER]




That's the correct interpretation. However, the meaning is not subjunctive at all. It has the meaning of a simple/habitual present tense. This usage is very common in poetry, songs, advertising, etc.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thank you everybody for your patience and contributions.  
It is clear now.


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## Alfaaz

desi4life said:
			
		

> Thanks. I think it's a Persian word though rather than Arabic.


 Thanks for this correction! Yes, _daryaa _is of Persian origin.


			
				MonsieurGonzalito said:
			
		

> Thanks again, @Alfaaz ...


 You're welcome. I hope my examples haven't caused further confusion, since they seem grammatically different from each other! After posting the examples above and thinking more about them, the following threads came to mind (which may be relevant to this discussion):

Urdu-Hindi-Punjabi:The Subjunctive Mood
Urdu-Hindi: The aorist tense

etc.


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## littlepond

"mujhe chain nahiN aataa hai" is matter-of-factly; "... na aaye" brings in more emotion and contingency on external factors (hence the subjunctive, even if habitual). "... na aaye" thus is not merely a matter of style; it differs in nuance from "nahiN aataa hai".

As for "na" vs. "nahiN", I don't think any such rule exists; one can use "nahiN" too, only that "nahiN" would make it very heavy in such a construction. So unless great heaviness is a necessity, "na" is better in such a construction.

As another example, there is also the hit song from the film "Dil": "mujhe neend na aaye, mujhe chain na aaye".


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Based on previous threads, I can see that the classification of tenses, and justification of where exactly to use subjunctive, quickly became a matter of heated debate.
It suffices to me that the word in question has subjunctive form.

But all this contextual information is also very useful. Thanks!


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## amiramir

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Based on previous threads, I can see that the classification of tenses, and justification of where exactly to use subjunctive, quickly became a matter of heated debate.
> It suffices to me that the word in question has subjunctive form.
> 
> But all this contextual information is also very useful. Thanks!



I would agree wholeheartedly with Dib's comment in number 10. The verb form is the subjunctive, which is often used in poetry and songs where in normal speech we would use the indicative.


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## Qureshpor

amiramir said:


> I would agree wholeheartedly with Dib's comment in number 10. The verb form is the subjunctive, which is often used in poetry and songs where in normal speech we would use the indicative.


This is not what Dib says and I agree with him. I have attempted to explain all this in the threads Urdu-Hindi: The aorist tense & Urdu-Hindi-Punjabi:The Subjunctive Mood and as far as "mujhe chain nah aa'e" is concerned, "aa'e" is in the indicative mood and simply means "aataa hai". However, if it is easier for people to understand this by thinking of it as a "subjunctive", then so be it. Labels don't matter so much, as long as one understands the meaning correctly.


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