# FR: s'il vous plaît / si vous plaît



## cas29

Growing up I learned "s'il vous plait" "s'il te plait".
Today I received an email from a friend wherein  she wrote "si vous plait".

Doing a google search I found both - but that doesn't mean they are both correct, only that they are both used!

Are they in fact both correct, or is "si vous plait" incorrect /becoming acceptable /an acceptable alternative in some parts of the world?

Merci beaucoups


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## Arrius

Sometimes _s'il vous plaìt_ is said so fast that you can't hear the the L any more, whether or not an L has actually been uttered. However, I have never seen your second version written and would consider it wrong, but who knows what happens in Haiti or Louisiana?


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## cas29

Thanks for your reply Arrius.

I agree with you about the pronunciation point!  

However, after seeing it in the email I received I did find written examples, hence my curiosity to find out the "real story"!

Anyone else?


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## LV4-26

I agree with Arrius.
I've never seen it written that way. It must be a mistake or a typo.
However, you do find _siou plaît_, as a written transcript of sloppy speech.


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## Maître Capello

I think you may find “_si vous plaît_” in a written dialog if the person who says it is a foreigner who has very limited knowledge in the French language…


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## cas29

Well, I'm fully satisfied that "si vous plait" is not correct in the context of "please".  
(It has crossed my mind that perhaps it coud be the beginning of a first conditional type sentence meaning "if you like x,  then try this", but I'm not sure that the conjugation of plait would be "plait" in this case)

My friend speaks French reasonably well, but she is a native English speaker, so I think this must just have been a slip up.

Thanks again everyone.


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## Maître Capello

cas29 said:


> (It has crossed my mind that perhaps it coud be the beginning of a first conditional type sentence meaning "if you like x, then try this", but I'm not sure that the conjugation of plait would be "plait" in this case)


 
 First please note that I think you must should write _plaî__t_ (with a circumflex) ; _plait_ doesn't unfortunately does exist in French and now seems to be recommended — but I can't stand it.

 Whatever the meaning there is a word missing in “_Si vous plaît_”  – it must be something like “_Si *X* vous plaît_”.

By the way “If you like *X*, then try this” is also using the indicative present when translated into French: “_Si *X* vous plaît, alors essayez cela._” (In other words _plaît_ is the correct conjugation in that case as well.)


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## radagasty

Maître Capello said:


> First please note that you must write _plaî__t_ (with a circumflex) ; _plait_ doesn't exist in French.


 
On the contrary. Here's what the _Rapport du conseil supérieur de la langue française sur les Rectifications de l'orthographe_ (1990) has to say about the circumflex accent:



> Si l’accent circonflexe placé sur les lettres _a_, _o_ et _e_ peut indiquer utilement des distinctions de timbre (*mâtin* et *matin* ; *côte* et *cote* ; *vôtre* et *votre *; etc.), placé sur _i_ et _u _il est d’une utilité nettement plus restreinte (*voûte* et *doute* par exemple ne se distinguent dans la prononciation que par la première consonne). Dans quelques terminaisons verbales (passé simple, etc.), il indique des distinctions morphologiques nécessaires. Sur les autres mots, il ne donne généralement aucune indication, excepté pour de rare distinctions de formes homographes.
> En conséquence, on conserve l’accent circonflexe sur _a_, _e_, et _o_, mais sur _i_ et sur _u_ il n’est plus obligatoire, excepté dans les cas suivants :
> 
> a) Dans la conjugaison, où il marque une terminaison : ...
> 
> b) Dans les mots où il apporte une distinction de sens utile : *dû, jeûne*, les adjectifs *mûr* et *sûr*, et le verbe *croître* (étant donné que sa conjugaison est en partie homographe de celle du verbe *croire*). L’exception ne concerne pas les dérivés et les composés de ces mots (_exemple_ : *sûr*, mais *sureté* ; *croître*, mais *accroitre*). Comme c’était déjà le cas pour *dû*, les adjectifs *mûr* et *sûr* ne prennent un accent circonflexe qu’au masculin singulier.
> Les personnes qui ont déjà la maîtrise de l’orthographe ancienne pourront, naturellement, ne pas suivre cette nouvelle norme.
> 
> _Remarques_ :
> - cette mesure entraîne la rectification de certaines anomalies étymologiques, en établissant des régularités. On écrit désormais *mu* (comme déjà *su, tu, vu, lu*), *plait* (comme déjà *tait, fait*), *piqure, surpiqure* (comme déjà *morsure*) *traine, traitre*, et leurs dérivés (comme déjà *gaine*, *haine, faine*), et *ambigument, assidument, congrument, continument, crument, dument, goulument, incongrument, indument, nument* (comme déjà *absolument, éperdument, ingénument, résolument*) ;


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## Agnès E.

Radagasty, lisez bien votre citation, qui confirme l'affirmation de maître Capello :



> En conséquence, on conserve l’accent circonflexe sur _a_, _e_, et _o_, mais sur _i_ et sur _u_ il n’est plus obligatoire, *excepté dans les cas suivants* :
> 
> a) Dans la conjugaison, où il marque une terminaison



Il faut bien écrire *plaît*. Personnellement, je garde même les anciens tirets et écris toujours s'il-vous-plaît.


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## Maître Capello

*Malheureusement*, il semblerait que Radagasty ait raison… D'après ce document :« L'accent circonflexe disparait sur _i_ et _u_. On le maintient néanmoins dans les terminaisons verbales du *passé simple*,          du *subjonctif*, et *en cas d'ambigüité*. »​Et si j'ai dit « Malheureusement », c'est bien parce que je suis personnellement opposé à cette réforme. (Je n'arrive d'ailleurs pas non plus à me faire à l'idée qu'ambigu*ï*té puisse également s'écrire « ambigüité »…)

Remarquez qu'*en Suisse*, il est demandé aux enseignants d’accepter les nouvelles graphies, mais de *ne pas les enseigner*.


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## Albert 50

Hello to all,

I decided to add a comment when I noticed that Cas29 mentioned that her friend who wrote "si vous plait" was an Anglophone (English-speaking Canadian), and not a francophone.

I have met many English-Canadians who have a certain knowledge of French and who assume that "si vous plaît" is what French-speaking Canadians are saying. So when joking around they will use pharses like "si vous plait" without meaning any harm. What they have heard, of course, are French-speaking Canadians "eliding" (softening) the "l" of "il" somewhat, which can sound (to the untrained ear) like "si vous plait".

If your friend had been more attention during her years of French classes she might not have made the mistake. But language classes are boring for the young wherever they live (when my daughter lived for a year in Belgium and attended a French-language school there, all the kids fell asleep in Dutch class (le cours de néerlandais)..." ). And French-speaking Swiss teenagers don't say kind things about their German-teachers either.... 

Cordialement
Albert


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## kropouet

Hi everyone !

About this kind of expression, "si vous plait" or "siou plait"...

It may not be a mistake. It might sound weird, but sometimes, French people do "mistakes" like that ON PURPOSE when they write... for fun. I wouldn't know exactly how to explain it... It's like if you wrote, in English, the word "pliz" instead of "please" (I know, it doesn't sound exactly the same way... but I can't find a proper example), not because you suck at spelling, but just for fun... To write what you hear.

An expression you can hear sometimes in France is : "Si j'aurais su, j'aurais pas venu !" It means "Had I known, I wouldn't have come !" ... except that it's incorrect ! The right sentence is : "Si j'AVAIS su, je NE SERAIS pas venu". It comes from a movie, La guerre des boutons (Buttons war), and in this movie, a kid says this sentence. Everyone in France knows it, and we enjoy saying it.

There is also a word I sometimes see or hear : "viendez !" instead of "venez !" (come). Don't use this word, it's a joke, it's a volontary conjugation error (based on the fact that the conjugation of the verb "venir" is irregular : "je viens", "tu viens", "il vient", "ils viennent" BUT "nous venons" et "vous venez").

I'm not sure I'm making a clear point, but what I mean is, sometimes, when French people make such huge mistakes when they write (and I think you will see this kind of thing mainly in mails or blogs, for instance), it's just because we find it fun to pretend we can't speak proper French. So don't correct people when they do that : they're trying to be funny. (I said "trying"...)

(And by he way, Albert 50 : French people also often elide the L of "s'il vous plaît" when they pronounce it, not just Canadians.)


Not sure that was clear (or maybe it was too redundant)... but, hey, it's late here, I'm tired and not bilingual...

Good night !

PS : cas29 : of course, that doesn't apply to your friend if she's not French, but that explains why you found so many occurrences of "si vous plait" on google.
PS2 : I just checked it out : *471 000 *occurrences of "viendez" on google.fr !! For a word that doesn't even exist !!


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## ascoltate

Albert 50 said:


> What they have heard, of course, are French-speaking Canadians "eliding" (softening) the "l" of "il" somewhat, which can sound (to the untrained ear) like "si vous plait".



just one picky point here-- there is no "untrained ear" here-- the "l" in the word "il" is quite frequently unpronounced, and thus "s'il vous plaît" is often pronounced exactly as if it were "si vous plaît". Other times, the "l" is replaced by a "y" sound, so there is something still there, but it is nonetheless very subtle.
And while elision of "l" in "il" is slightly more common in French Canada than in European French, it occurs in both places quite frequently. (Not so for elision of "l" in "elle" which is far more frequent in Canada)...


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## chuchoter92

cas29 said:


> Growing up I learned "s'il vous plait" "s'il te plait".
> Today I received an email from a friend wherein  she wrote "si vous plait".
> 
> Doing a google search I found both - but that doesn't mean they are both correct, only that they are both used!
> 
> Are they in fact both correct, or is "si vous plait" incorrect /becoming acceptable /an acceptable alternative in some parts of the world?
> 
> Merci beaucoups



As I learned it, "s'il vous plait" is just the more formal version of "s'il te plait". They both mean the same thing, but whenever you would use "vous" (as in a group of people, or formally towards one person) then use "s'il vous plait", and if you were talking to some you were close to (as in one person like a friend or a sibling) then you would use "s'il te plait". However, many people just decide to use "s'il vous plait" for any scenario, really.

I've never really heard of "si vous plait", but I'm assuming that it's just because the "il" in "s'il vous plait" isn't really heard - sometimes I say it so fast I can't really hear that part. I'm not sure, you're going to have to double check on that.


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## jann

Welcome, Chuchoter92,  

It looks like you unearthed an old thread here!





chuchoter92 said:


> I've never really heard of "si vous plait", but I'm assuming that it's just because the "il" in "s'il vous plait" isn't really heard - sometimes I say it so fast I can't really hear that part. I'm not sure, you're going to have to double check on that.


We can say categorically that writing _si vous plaît_ is a mistake... either a typographical error, or an actual mispelling (or text-message/chatspeak shortcut) reflecting the fact that people speaking quickly often swallow the "L" sound.

But the only* correct way to write this is _s'il vous plaît.  _The verb _plaire_ needs a 3rd person subject, and it doesn't have one if the _il_ isn't there.  We're literally saying "If it pleases you," and if you leave the _il_ off, you've written "If pleases you." 


*Well, I say "only," but it is also correct to write _plait_ without the circumflex accent, as was discussed in a number of posts above.


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## Daican

I wonder if it might be a case of someone doing a _mot-à-mot _translation of the English phrase *if you please* rather than a case of someone joking around.


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## CapnPrep

Daican said:


> I wonder if it might be a case of someone doing a _mot-à-mot _translation of the English phrase *if you please* rather than a case of someone joking around.


It seems very unlikely to me, but along the same lines, French used to allow the same structure with omission of the impersonal subject: _si vous plai(s)t_, _si vous plaise_, _si plai(s)t à Dieu_, _si mieulx vous plaist et bon vous semble_, etc. This explains a small fraction of the examples that one might find by Googling.


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## jann

Daican said:


> I wonder if it might be a case of someone doing a _mot-à-mot _translation of the English phrase *if you please* rather than a case of someone joking around.


And even then, the question is why people would choose a third person singular conjugation of _plaire_.  If they're doing an incorrect word-for-word translation, they could just as easily pick the 2nd person plural to go with _vous_ (_si vous plaisez_) or the infinitive (_si vous plaire_)...


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