# Slavic and Slavonic



## Whodunit

EDIT: taken from here


			
				Jana337 said:
			
		

> I checked as well.
> Slav السلاف
> Slavic سلافي
> Slavonic سلافيّ
> Slavs (this one is strange!) الصقلبيون
> 
> Jana


 
Jana, where's the difference between Slavic and Slavonic?


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## Jana337

There isn't a difference as to the meaning in the strict sense of the word. The only difference I am aware of is historical. Slavonic (frequently called Old Slavonic) is a liturgical language of the orthodox church. Its codified form is based on the dialect from the Thessaloniki region in Greece.

It was the language into which Christian texts were translated in the 9th century by Cyril and Methodius (the former, as you might suspect, gave the name to the Cyrillic alphabet, which, in turn, is a blend of the Greek and the Glagolitic (hlahol - or glagol in East Slavic languages - means "pealing", a very melodious word) alphabets, the latter being credited to both gentlemen who needed it in order to be able to write down their translation of the Bible). 

Slavonic used to be widespread (understood but not necessarily spoken) in all Slavic countries (including where I used to live until a week ago ) but in the course of time it was receding further and further to the east where it was replaced by national languages anyway. It has survived (in a transformed form) as a liturgical language in countries where the Cyrillic alphabet (azbuka) is used, which actually coincides with countries where the Orthodox Church has a great influence.

In Czech, Old Slavonic is called staroslověnština. Starý - old, slověnština - a language encompassing all Slavs. It would be called slovanština if it existed today. It has nothing to do with either Slovak (slovenština) or Slovenian (Slovinian).

I think I have confused everyone sufficiently. 
The text is littered with brackets. I know that this is an undeniable sign of a poor style. 

Jana


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## Whodunit

Jana337 said:
			
		

> There isn't a difference as to the meaning in the strict sense of the word. The only difference I am aware of is historical. Slavonic (frequently called Old Slavonic) is a liturgical language of the orthodox church. Its codified form is based on the dialect from the Thessaloniki region in Greece.
> 
> It was the language into which Christian texts were translated in the 9th century by Cyril and Methodius (the former, as you might suspect, gave the name to the Cyrillic alphabet, which, in turn, is a blend of the Greek and the Glagolitic (hlahol - or glagol in East Slavic languages - means "pealing", a very melodious word) alphabets, the latter being credited to both gentlemen who needed it in order to be able to write down their translation of the Bible).
> 
> Slavonic used to be widespread (understood but not necessarily spoken) in all Slavic countries (including where I used to live until a week ago ) but in the course of time it was receding further and further to the east where it was replaced by national languages anyway. It has survived (in a transformed form) as a liturgical language in countries where the Cyrillic alphabet (azbuka), which actually coincides with the Orthodox Catholic church, is used.
> 
> In Czech, Old Slavonic is called staroslověnština. Starý - old, slověnština - a language encompassing all Slavs. It would be called slovanština if it existed today. It has nothing to do with either Slovak (slovenština) or Slovenian (Slovinian).
> 
> I think I have confused everyone sufficiently.
> The text is littered with brackets. I know that this is an undeniable sign of a poor style.
> 
> Jana


 
And what about the source? I want to read it unabrdged.


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## Jana337

Whodunit said:
			
		

> And what about the source? I want to read it unabrdged.


The source is my head, obviously. 
Here is more.

Jana


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## Whodunit

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The source is my head, obviously.
> Here is more.
> 
> Jana


 
Don't you tell me you knew that all.  Okay, Jana, thank you very much for that info, I really appreciate it.


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## Jana337

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Don't you tell me you knew that all.  Okay, Jana, thank you very much for that info, I really appreciate it.


Seriously, this is stuff that every student in my country is supposed to absorb. 

Jana


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## Marijka

I was asked to put some additional information to this topic  so, here I am. Maybe a few words about relations between Old-Church-Slavonic and other Slavic languages.

     Old Church Slavonic was first written Slavic language. As Jana wrote , it was a dialect spoken in Thessaloniki region.
     Proto-language from which other Slavic languages ( including Old Church Slavonic) emerged was Proto-Slavic ( in Polish it is called prasłowiański). It is unclear when Proto-Slavic started to form, according to T.Lehr-Spławiński*, and S.B. Bernštejn** it would be  about 10-11th century B.C., but there are opinions that Proto-Slavic emerged in 1st century AD***, so it's 1000 years difference. 
      In 6th century AD Proto-Slavic was already separated into three groups (Western, Eastern, Southern) and there was of course a number of dialects. 
      Old-Church Slavonic was based on South Slavic dialect. It is close related to Bulgarian and Macedonian ( so in Bulgaria it is often called Old Bulgarian - cтаробългарски език, and in Macedonia - Old Macedonian- старомакедонски). 
      Old-Church-Slavonic can't be indentified with Proto-Slavic, but it was just three centuries after the Slavic group breakup when it was written down, so it is helpful in reconstructions and a lot of forms and words is indeed identical: byti=to be, dati=to give, synъ=son, žena=wife, woman etc. ( it should be of course written in cyryllics, I've made a transliteration). Old-Church-Slavonic was also mostly used as liturgical language, so it is well preserved, there is a lot of archaic forms.
     In Polish there is no difference between Slavic and Slavonic, we translate both words as *słowiańsk*i. Old-Church-Slavonic language is staro-cerkiewno-*słowiański* in Polish.
In other languages in know it would be:
-старо*славян**ский* язык in Russian
-старо*слов’янська* мова in Ukrainian
-старажытна*славянская* мова in Belarussian
 славянский,слов’янська,славянская can mean either Slavic or Slavonic, so I think, as Jana said, there isn't a difference as to the meaning of the word.

*T.Lehr-Spławiński, O pochodzeniu i praojczyźnie Słowian, Poznań, 1946 p. 137
** S.B. Bernštejn, Očerk sravnitel'noj grammatiki slavjanskich jazykov, Moscow, 1961, p. 43
***Z.Stieber, Słownik starożytności słowiańskich, vol.IV, Wrocław, 1970-1972, p.309​


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## skye

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Seriously, this is stuff that every student in my country is supposed to absorb.
> 
> Jana


 

Supposed to, but not everyone does.


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## natasha2000

Jana337 said:
			
		

> It has survived (in a transformed form) as a liturgical language in countries where the Cyrillic alphabet (azbuka), which actually coincides with the *Orthodox Catholic church*, is used. Jana


 
Jana, I am a little bit confused...
I would appreciate if you explained me which church is Orthodox Catholic church?
Or it was lapsus, and you meant Orthodox Christian Church? 

All Catholics use latin alphabet, as far as I know.
All Orthodox use cyrillic. 

In Serbian, old Slavonic or Old Slavic is called "staroslovenski". It is only preserved as a church language. In Serbia, it was also used as a literary language until the reform of Vuk Karadžić (19 century). Read more here.

Cheers.
N.


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## Marijka

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> All Catholics use latin alphabet, as far as I know.



Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church _(Українська Греко-Католицька Церква)_ uses cyrillic.


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## natasha2000

Marijka said:
			
		

> Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church _(Українська Греко-Католицька Церква)_ uses cyrillic.


 
Hmm.. Thanks for the tip. I really didn't know it.


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## Jana337

Marijka said:
			
		

> Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church _(Українська Греко-Католицька Церква)_ uses cyrillic.


What I wrote was a lapsus nevertheless. Going to correct it. Thanks, Natasha. 

Jana


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## krakus

My Name Is Rumen Srebranov And I Work At Bulgarian Academy Of Science. There Is No Difference Between Slavonic And Slavic, Because First One Is Used At American English And American Lingustics, And Second One Is Used At British English And British Linguistics. Many Thanks


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## krakus

Kosciol Greko-katolicki (greek-catolic Church) Is In Western Ukraine, While Orthodox Is In Eastern Ukraine, Where The People Speek Russian


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## templar414

I always thought that it has something to do with the part of the Croatia where I live, which is called Slavonija.


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## se16teddy

krakus said:
			
		

> My Name Is Rumen Srebranov And I Work At Bulgarian Academy Of Science. There Is No Difference Between Slavonic And Slavic, Because First One Is Used At American English And American Lingustics, And Second One Is Used At British English And British Linguistics. Many Thanks


 
When I studied Old Church Slavonic and the history of the Russian language at Oxford University (in England), I was advised not to use 'Slavic' because it was American usage.  I still have my Old Church Slavonic text book, published in London: it is called 'Handbook of Old Church Slavonic'.


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## Jana337

Interesting.  I was long aware of "Old Church Slavonic" and "Slavic" - I didn't think you could say "Old Church Slavic" and "Slavonic". 

At least in Czech, though, there are two different adjectives; one for the Old Church language, the other for modern languages/countries etc.

Jana


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## natasha2000

se16teddy said:
			
		

> When I studied Old Church Slavonic and the history of the Russian language at Oxford University (in England), I was advised not to use 'Slavic' because it was American usage. I still have my Old Church Slavonic text book, published in London: it is called 'Handbook of Old Church Slavonic'.


 
I must say that until I joined WR, I did not even know that Slavic can also be called Slavonic. I always considered it was an adjective of Slavonia.


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## Jana337

templar414 said:
			
		

> I always thought that it has something to dowith the part of the Croatia where I live, which is called Slavonija.


You were right, etymologically. 



> Adj. Slavic is attested from 1813; earlier Slavonic (c.1645), from Slavonia, a region of Croatia. Source


The discussion about etymology continues here.

Jana


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