# Hindi: Jo and Causative Verb



## luoruosi

I'm a little bit confused about how flexible the descriptive word "Jo" is in Hindi.
I want to say the sentence, "the boy who is crying is making me mad" but I'm also confused about how to express that he's causing me to do something.
I'm pretty sure I could say, "Jo bachchaa ro rahaa hai voh mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai"
but could I also say, "Voh bachchaa jo ro rahaa hai mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai"?.
Also, for the final part of the sentence could i say, "meraa krodhit kar rahaa hai," or "meraa krodhit karvaa rahaa hai"?


----------



## hindiurdu

luoruosi said:


> Jo bachchaa ro rahaa hai voh mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai



✓ The child who is crying is making me angry.



luoruosi said:


> Voh bachchaa jo ro rahaa hai mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai



✓ That child who is crying is making me angry. Also works.

You could also use that excellent suffix -waalaa (connected to something/someplace). So: Rone-waalaa bachchaa mujhe krodhit kar raha hai. Of course, also Rotaa bachchhaa (crying child) mujhe krodhit kar raha hai.



luoruosi said:


> could i say, "meraa krodhit kar rahaa hai," or "meraa krodhit karvaa rahaa hai"?



✗ No, this is not correct. mujhe = to me. meraa = mine. The child is doing anger to me = bachchha mujhe krodhit kar raha hai = CORRECT. The child is doing anger mine/my = INCORRECT.

You could say, bachchaa mujhe krodhit karvaa rahaa hai, but this implies agency of some kind. The child is making some other agent make me angry.

Karna = To do. Karvaanaa = To make someone else do. Likhnaa = To write. Likhvaanaa = To get someone else to write. Chalnaa = To walk. Chalvaanaa = To make someone else walk.

Also, krodhit is rare in conversational speech for H-U natives, in my experience. I would go with Ghussa / ग़ुस्सा, but one thing to note is that while Krodh comes, Ghussaa climbs. Mujhe krodh aayaa = Mujhe Ghussaa charRhaa.

The crying child made me angry = Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhvaayaa. ChaRhnaa = To climb. ChaRhvaanaa = To make someone else climb.

Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhaayaa = The crying child angered me.
Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhvaayaa = The crying child made me angry (implicit: through his crying).


----------



## Alfaaz

hindiurdu said:
			
		

> ... but one thing to note is that while Krodh comes, Ghussaa climbs. Mujhe krodh aayaa = Mujhe Ghussaa charRhaa.


Unless I have misunderstood you, this isn't completely correct! Example of _Ghussah aayaa_:

شعر تو ان پر لکھے لیکن اوروں سے منسوب کیے
ان کو کیا کیا غصہ آیا نظموں کے عنوانوں پر

جاں نثار اختر

_sh3er to un par likhe lekin auroN se mansuub kiye
un ko kyaa kyaa Ghussah aayaa nazmoN ke 3unwaanoN par

Jaan Nisar Akhtar
_
There is also_ Ghussah dilaanaa - to enrage, to provoke, etc_.


----------



## Englishmypassion

hindiurdu said:


> ✗ No, this is not correct. mujhe = to me. meraa = mine. The child is doing anger to me = bachchha mujhe krodhit kar raha hai = CORRECT. The child is doing anger mine/my = INCORRECT.
> 
> 
> Would it help you to understand it more clearly, luoruosi?
> bachchha mujhe krodhit kar raha hai = The child is angering me. Correct.      Bachcha meraa krodhit kar rahaa hai= The child is angering mine. Incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, krodhit is rare in conversational speech for H-U natives, in my experience. I would go with Ghussa / ग़ुस्सा, but one thing to note is that while Krodh comes, Ghussaa climbs. Mujhe krodh aayaa = Mujhe Ghussaa charRhaa. (I would say mujhe gussa *aaya. *Gussa doesn't 'climb' for me.).
> Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhaayaa = The crying child angered me. (I would say: Rote bachche ne mujhe gussa *dilaaya.) *


----------



## littlepond

Indeed, "gussaa aanaa" is very much there, and there is even a film called "Albert Pinto ko gussa kyooN aataa hai".


----------



## hindiurdu

^ Yes, this is my mistake. Ghussaa aanaa, Ghussaa dilaanaa, Ghussaa honaa (or ho jaanaa), Ghussaa karnaa are all legit - and I say them myself all the time. Somehow when I wrote the post, I was saying these words to myself differently and my mind got into this weird mode. This is an error on my part.


----------



## Englishmypassion

It's a common problem of the human brain, hindiurdu jee. Mine trips more frequently.


----------



## luoruosi

hindiurdu said:


> ✓ The child who is crying is making me angry.
> 
> 
> 
> ✓ That child who is crying is making me angry. Also works.
> 
> You could also use that excellent suffix -waalaa (connected to something/someplace). So: Rone-waalaa bachchaa mujhe krodhit kar raha hai. Of course, also Rotaa bachchhaa (crying child) mujhe krodhit kar raha hai.
> 
> 
> 
> ✗ No, this is not correct. mujhe = to me. meraa = mine. The child is doing anger to me = bachchha mujhe krodhit kar raha hai = CORRECT. The child is doing anger mine/my = INCORRECT.
> 
> You could say, bachchaa mujhe krodhit karvaa rahaa hai, but this implies agency of some kind. The child is making some other agent make me angry.
> 
> Karna = To do. Karvaanaa = To make someone else do. Likhnaa = To write. Likhvaanaa = To get someone else to write. Chalnaa = To walk. Chalvaanaa = To make someone else walk.
> 
> Also, krodhit is rare in conversational speech for H-U natives, in my experience. I would go with Ghussa / ग़ुस्सा, but one thing to note is that while Krodh comes, Ghussaa climbs. Mujhe krodh aayaa = Mujhe Ghussaa charRhaa.
> 
> The crying child made me angry = Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhvaayaa. ChaRhnaa = To climb. ChaRhvaanaa = To make someone else climb.
> 
> Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhaayaa = The crying child angered me.
> Rote bachche ne Ghussa chaRhvaayaa = The crying child made me angry (implicit: through his crying).



Ok, thank you, very helpful, but I got confused because of words like bhramit and sharmindaa where it is right to use the possessive form. Like I've heard people say things like "Shikshak ne meraa bhramit kiyaa" or "Usne meraa sharmindaa kiyaa". Is there anyway to know when to use and when not to use the possessive form?


----------



## Englishmypassion

No, you have used "mera" incorrectly in both the sentences. It should be "Shiskshak ne _mujhe_ bhramit kiya" or "Shikshak ne mera _dimag_ bhramit kiya" (the latter is spoken form and not formally correct, I think) and "Usne mujhe sharminda kiya". I guess you have probably got your "mera" mixed up either by mere confusion or by hearing wrong Hindi.


----------



## littlepond

Indeed, as Emp jii has already said, "mujhe" is correct in even both those sentences, not "meraa".



Englishmypassion said:


> ... "Shikshak ne mera _dimag_ bhramit kiya" (the latter is spoken form ...)



I don't know of any such spoken form: such a sentence would be very strange to hear. At the most, "man bhramit honaa" can be heard in some contexts, but "mera dimaag bhramit kiyaa"? That would provoke some laughter!


----------



## Englishmypassion

Yes, littlepond ji, 'dimag bhramit krna' is not correct but people _sometimes_ do say such things. Haven't you _ever_ heard "Mera dimaag paagal ho gya yaar"? It is again not correct but sometimes said carelessly by some people. Yes, your "mann bhramit krna" is certainly correct. 
However, I would I would advise not to use "dimaag bhramit/paagal hona krna". Whatever is spoken, especially rarely, is not always correct.


----------



## amiramir

Sorry, is kisiko bhramit karna = to confuse or to delude or something else (shabdkosh.com gives one definition of भ्रमित as promiscuous!)

Is this a spoken term as well? If not, what's the common way of expressing the same thing? 

Thank you.


----------



## Englishmypassion

I think it's misguide/mislead/confuse. Yes, it_ is_ a spoken term also, though some other terms may be more common in speech for the meaning.


----------



## littlepond

"bhramit" is used orally, thought not very common; depending on context, people also use "bhaTkaanaa", "confuse karnaa", etc.


----------



## mundiya

Englishmypassion said:


> I think it's misguide/mislead/confuse. Yes, it_ is_ a spoken term also, though some other terms may be more common in speech for the meaning.



Yes, that's the right meaning.


----------



## marrish

luoruosi said:


> I'm a little bit confused about how flexible the descriptive word "Jo" is in Hindi.
> I want to say the sentence, "the boy who is crying is making me mad" but I'm also confused about how to express that he's causing me to do something. I'm pretty sure I could say, "Jo bachchaa ro rahaa hai voh mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai" but could I also say, "Voh bachchaa jo ro rahaa hai mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai"?. Also, for the final part of the sentence could i say, "meraa krodhit kar rahaa hai," or "meraa krodhit karvaa rahaa hai"?


Only in one post there is something about your question regarding "_jo"_ and causative verb. The discussion about _bhramit_ and other things is interesting though. Your other question about _meraa_ has been answered, so the only attempt I can make to add some complementary suggestions.  I can confirm that both positions of "jo", that is of a relative pronoun at the beginning of the relative clause or otherwise (_vah... jo_... or _jo... vah_), are both spoken, with the general tendency to form "_jo... vah_"-like sentences. As far as the correctness is important, with "_jo... vah_" you can never be wrong. The other order would appear strange if used excusively. No matter if it is while speaking, or in a short piece of text, if you have a couple of  relative sentences, you can't really repeat "_jo... vah_" type sentences consequently and you must use "_jo... vah_" too. Much more.

There must have been learned discussions about relative sentences and relative pronouns, perhaps about "jo" too in threads which have bee started earlier.

The order is not strict and it is very normal to say, "_vah laRkaa, jo ro rahaa hai, ... _(a part of a compound verb, like an adjective, noun, or, a causative verb root) _rahaa hai._

Your sentence: 'the boy who is crying is making me mad', if I understand it correctly, it doesn't require "_vah... jo_" or "_vah... jo_+the rest of what "_vah_" does". Suppose you are pointing out to a boy in a group and he is crying, then it is just the way to do it but you don't need to convey this sense and you are better off with _jo laRkaa ro rahaa hai mujhe krodhit kar rahaa hai_.

"A boy" is _laRkaa_ in Hindi. _bachchaa_ is "a child".

This sentence can express something different, _jo laRkaa chillaa rahaa hai mujhe paagal kar rahaa hai, _but it can remain _ro rahaa hai _and that's is how your sentence should be said_.
"jo laRkaa ro/chillaa/rahaa hai mujhe paagal kar rahaa hai"
"jo laRkaa ro/chillaa/chiix rahaa hai mujhe krodhit (_or even_ kruddh) kar rahaa hai."
_
Here there is no need for any causative verb. The verb is here "_x karnaa_". The boy is _*making*_ you mad, he is not causing you to do anything, at least there is no information in this sentence about it. However in Hindi it is still possible to use a causative verb, by saying:
"_jo laRkaa ro/chillaa/chiix rahaa hai mujhe Ghussaa* dilaa* rahaa hai". 
Then you're the one to __Ghussah__* karnaa*, that is to "*make* yourself angry=be angry".
_
These, and other things are well explained in post No. 2.


----------

