# how to pronounce more than two unvoiced consonants together, followed by the vowel U



## Caballero negro

I know that the vowel U (and sometimes I) between two unvoiced conconants tends to be pronounced very silently, sometimes is almost completely dropped, for example "kusa" (herb) tends to be pronounced "ksA", "tsukuru" tends to be pronounced like "tskUru", and the only exeptions are S and SH (shIshi (meat)).....But what if there are 3 unvoiced consonants in a row? For example, how to pronounce the verb "tsukusu" or the phrase "anata wo kiku tabi ni"? I don't think I would sound natural if I omited all but the last U, pronouncing it like "tsksU" (last U accented) or "anata wo kikutAbini" (kiku completely unvoiced, and the first syllable of TAbi accented).


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## DaylightDelight

For me (born and grew up in Tokyo area), "tsukusu" is /ts*kU*s/ (the middle /U/ voiced and accented, the first and last /u/ unvoiced), "kiku tabini" is /k(i)*kU* ta*bI*ni/ (the first /i/ unvoiced, the next /U/ voiced and accented).
I'm afraid I can't explain the rule or the logic behind this.

For what it's worth, in Osaka dialect every /u/ vowels tend to remain voiced.
So McDonald's, which is "makudonarudo" in Japanese, is called /*mA*k/ in Tokyo area just like in English, and /ma*kU*do/ in Osaka area.


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## Caballero negro

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know, because in the past I thought that every U between unvoiced consonants should remain silent, even if it could produce some consonant clusters impossible to pronounce.


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## DaylightDelight

I've found a simple explanation here 東外大言語モジュール｜日本語｜発音｜実践編
Summary:

Vowels /i/ and /u/ between consonants /k/, /s/, /t/, /h/ and /p/ are likely to become unvoiced:
e.g. suki /ski/, kiku /k(i)ku/, kusa /ksa/, tsuki /tski/, shita /sh(i)ta/
These sounds at the end of sentences are also likely to become unvoiced.
Especially the last vowels of '-desu' and '-masu' are mostly unvoiced.
However, vowels with the accent kernel are not likely to become unvoiced:
For example "fuku" (=blow) has the kernel on the first vowel so it is pronouced /*fU*ku/.
On the other hand, "fuku" (=clothes) has the kernel on the second vowel so it becomes /f*kU*/.


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## Flaminius

I think I pronounce _kiku tabi ni _as: kik*ta* *bi*ni


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## DaylightDelight

You're right, Flaminius.  I've just realized that I'm devoicing first two vowels when I say it fast.
So it's more like /k(i)kta*bI*ni/ for me.


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## Nino83

DaylightDelight said:


> However, vowels with the accent kernel are not likely to become unvoiced


I tend to agree.
(high-pitched syllables in red; accented syllables)

ts(u)*kù*s(u) (LHL), k(i)*kù* (LH), k(u)*sà* (LH), ts(u)*kì* (LH), sh(i)*tà* (LH)

efude wo ts(u)*kaì* ka*kità*su mirai [...]
i*shì*k(i) ni wa sonna jyoukei ga
wasurerarenai *ì*ts(u)ka no ch(i)*kaì*
(from a song of the Asian Kung-fu Generation, "Mustang")

Accented syllables are (generally) fully pronunced while there is some variation in pretonic high-pitched syllables. They are often pronounced (see ka*kità*su mirai).


Flaminius said:


> I think I pronounce _kiku tabi ni _as: kik*ta* *bi*ni





DaylightDelight said:


> So it's more like /k(i)kta*bI*ni/ for me.


That's interesting. Could you (all) explain the reason why this happens? Is there some shift in accent?


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## DaylightDelight

Nino83 said:


> That's interesting. Could you (all) explain the reason why this happens? Is there some shift in accent?


My theory is that adjacent words are pronounced as if they were a single word.
When we say "kiku tabi ni" carefully, word by word, then it is /k(i)k*U*  tab*I* ni/ (LH LH L).
But when we say it fast they are connected and become one pseudo-word "kikutabini"
with the accent kernel at "bi" phoneme, and is pronounced /k(i)k(u)tab*I*ni/ (LHHHL).


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## Nino83

DaylightDelight said:


> My theory is that adjacent words are pronounced as if they were a single word.


Thank you! 
It would be interesing if there were some work about this matter (how the accent works in sentences).


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## Flaminius

Nino83 said:


> That's interesting. Could you (all) explain the reason why this happens? Is there some shift in accent?


I tend to pronounce [ktá] with stress accent because the implosive [k] accumulates the air pressure in the mouth until it is released for [t] with extra power.  Syllabification for the sequence is; ki.kta..bi.ni, with four open syllables making up two pairs.  The second pair begins with the stressed /bi/, which is considerably weakly stressed than /kta/.  This, in effect, creates a hiatus, hence the syllabification above.  Like *DD* says above, the stress on /bi/ is retained as in the original normative pronunciation.

Since the first /k/ is followed by /i/, it is always palatalised, [kʲ].  This mutation makes the syllable more prone to devoicing.  Contrast it with _kuku_ (multiplication up to 9 by 9) whose the first vowel really seldom gets devoiced.  It is not unusual to hear [kʲktabini].


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## Nino83

Thank you, Flaminius.
And what about the change of pitch in sentences?
Are there phonetic rules/tendencies which explain why _kik*ù* tab*ì* ni_ (LHLHL) becomes _kikutab*ì*ni_ (LHHHL)?


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## Flaminius

To be honest, I am tone-deaf so I can be completely wrong.  I think my pitch accent is on /bi/. 

When you speak fast, you tend to speak in monotonic beats, lessening ups and downs in pitch.


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## Nino83

Flaminius said:


> When you speak fast, you tend to speak in monotonic beats, lessening ups and downs in pitch.


Ok, thanks!


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## ktdd

Two principles about Japanese pitch accent.
1) The first two morae are always on different pitches. (which means HHHL is impossible)
2) You can not have more than one accent in a lexical unit. (which also means once the pitch drops it never rises again in the same segment)
Lots of Japanese words have no accent at all (or a "flat" accent). In dictionaries it's marked [0], for example
　端【はし】[0]
Using the oversimplified high-low analysis, it's indistinguishable by itself from a word with an accent on the last mora, for example
　橋【はし】[2]
But there actually is a difference. If there is an accent, the pitch rises higher (above the flat line) on the accented mora and drops dramatically after it. On a scale of 1-5 (5 being the highest) it would look more like this:
　かみなり[3]
　１３５１
Notice I used "lexical unit" not "word". Of course particles are considered part of the previous word and within the same unit. So 端が would be 133 (LHH) and 橋が 151 (LHL).
Compound words also form one unit. 誕生日プレゼント would only receive one accent: LHHHH-HHLLL.
I posit that in natural speech きくたびに is also one unit, therefore one accent: LHHHL.


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