# Do the Orthodox do the sign of the cross when they go by an Orthodox church?



## jazyk

My question arises from an observation I've recently made on a bus in Brazil.  Whenever there was a Catholic church, my fellow passenger did the sign of the cross.  I know that in the Orthodox faith the same gesture exists, but it's done first on the head, then on the right shoulder, the left shoulder and at last the thorax (I'm sorry if I didn't use the right Catholic terminology). My question is: do the Orthodox have the same practice when they go by a church?


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## ireney

jazyk I am not sure what you mean. I thought the Orthodox crossed themselves almost the exact same way catholics do (at least as far as I've noticed Catholics crossing themselves).
 Orthodox go head, thorax, right, left. I think Catholics (all Christians if I'm not mistaken) do the same.

The diference is that Orthodox use three fingers (thumb, index, middle) stuck together to cross themselves while the Catholics use two (index, middle)

Orthodox cross themselves when going by an Orthodox Church yes.


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## jazyk

> Orthodox go head, thorax, right, left. I think Catholics (all Christians if I'm not mistaken) do the same.


Hahaha, this came from a Protestant who thought he could accurately remember what he had seen around (and also due to his indescribable sense of direction - or lack thereof).  



> Orthodox cross themselves when going by an Orthodox Church yes.


Anyway, you answered my question. Thanks.


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## modus.irrealis

ireney said:


> Orthodox go head, thorax, right, left. I think Catholics (all Christians if I'm not mistaken) do the same.


Another difference is that Catholics go left, right (except I think that Eastern Rite Catholics go right, left)



jazyk said:


> My question is: do the Orthodox have the same practice when they go by a church?


If they don't, their mothers hit them upside the head .


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## ireney

modus.irrealis said:


> The difference is that Catholics go left, right (except I think that Eastern Rite Catholics go right, left)




Ah! That must be why I was mistaken! Thanks for the info modus!


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## stephyjh

The symbolism of going back to the center of the chest is that it's meant to be a gesture towards one's heart. Also, if you're ever in a Catholic mass, before the gospel reading, you'll see people making small crosses over their foreheads, mouths, and hearts.


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## MarionM

The Orthodox I know (they are Russian) bend their fingers when they cross themselves. Of that I'm sure.

I think it's three fingers. Of that I'm not sure. And I forgot which ones.

M.


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## Outsider

I'm not sure there are any strict rules about the number of fingers, or how they should be bent.


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## MarionM

Maybe not, but the guy who taught me to do it was positive. _He_ considered there was a rule.


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## modus.irrealis

MarionM said:


> The Orthodox I know (they are Russian) bend their fingers when they cross themselves. Of that I'm sure.
> 
> I think it's three fingers. Of that I'm not sure. And I forgot which ones.



I'm of the Greek Orthodox variety, and there are some differences with Russian customs, but that sounds like it could describe the custom used here. I use three fingers (thumb, index, and middle) but the tips touch, which I can only do if I bend them.


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## MarionM

modus.irrealis said:


> I'm of the Greek Orthodox variety, and there are some differences with Russian customs, but that sounds like it could describe the custom used here. I use three fingers (thumb, index, and middle) but the tips touch, which I can only do if I bend them.



Exactly! That's it! My body remembered when I tried it your way.


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## Miguelillo 87

ireney said:


> The diference is that Orthodox use three fingers (thumb, index, middle) stuck together to cross themselves while the Catholics use two (index, middle)
> 
> .


Well here on mexico all catholics will cross with the three fongers 'cause it represente The holy spirit, the father and the son, in all catholic scools it's taught like that, even if you do it only with two you're punished, So in Europe this rule change!!!! it seems like that


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## Outsider

When you cross yourself in mass you say "In the name of the Father [hand touches forehead], the Son [hand touches diafragm] and the Holy Spirit [hand touches left, then right shoulder]". But I went to Sunday school, and I never heard about a similar symbolism for the number of fingers you used!


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## Lugubert

In the Church of Sweden (CoS, evangelical Lutheran), ministers often make the sign of the cross towards the congregation when invoking the Trinity. During my (very!) Christian years, I never tried to count the number of fingers used.

Some of us in the Christian high school clique to which I belonged kneeled whenever there was an option in the prayer book for it, and made the sign using the whole hand, from our heads, to the sternum at heart height, left shoulder and finally right shoulder. In any CoS church, we were rather unique in doing so, but there was never a comment or even a sign that somebody noticed.

I don't know who researched the way to make the sign, but researched it was, to make sure that it would be acceptable to the CoS.


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## modus.irrealis

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Well here on mexico all catholics will cross with the three fongers 'cause it represente The holy spirit, the father and the son



Were you taught something about the other two fingers? I remember being taught that they represented the two natures of Christ (perfect man and perfect God), although I don't know how "official" this is.


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## natasha2000

I will speak from my experience of seing Croats, who are Catholics, and my own, Orthodox experience as a Serb.

Catholics use the palm, without bending any fingers. Ortodox use their fingers in a way Modus described. At least this is how I saw Croats making the sign of cross, and they are Catoholics. We, Serbs, are Ortodox and we use three fingers.

Orthodox use right hand, and start with the forehead, then to the chest, then right and then left. 

Catholics use also right hand, do all same except the last two movements - they go first left and finish right.

Here's the meaning of movements. I'll translate it to English, since it is in Serbian:



> We raise the right hand with three fingers joined, and we first touch our forehead. In this way we dedicate our mind to God and we say: In the name of the Father". Then we pt down our hand at the level of our weist, dedicating our heart to God, and we say: "..And Son". Then we touch first our right shoulder and then left one, dedicating our strength to God, saying: And Holy Spirit. Then we close our hands and say: Amen, which means: "So, be it."


 
Only very religious people make a sign of a cross when passing by church. But nowadays, it is something that almost disappeared. You can see old women from very passive parts of Serbia still doing it on a regular basis.


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## Maja

Outsider said:


> I'm not sure there are any strict rules about the number of fingers, or how they should be bent.



There ARE rules, at least in the Orthodox Churches. We all cross our selves with three fingers (thumb, index, and middle) connected at fingertips -> head, uper stomach/lower chest, right, left. 
During the liturgy, when a priest says: "In the name of the Father (hand touches forehead), the Son (hand touches diaphragm) and the Holy Spirit (hand touches left), Amen (then right shoulder)", all believers cross them selves in the same manner (as others already said). 
  As to crossing when walking by church, some believers do that. 
But when you're entering any church or monastery, it is a rule to cross yourself, and when you are leaving, the custom is to face the altar and cross again (not leave the church with your back turned to altar).


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## albatros

Be sure they do. I am an orthodox. Triple times upon enter in direction of the altar each real orthodox believer should cross himself.


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## ireney

Dear albatros that's when you go in a church not when you pass by it 

Oh and welcome to the forums


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## Etcetera

I only saw once ot twice that people cross themselves when they pass a church. And these were rather elderly women. 
I always cross myself before enter a church, but if I just walk by, I don't do the Sign of Cross. But I can't call myself a "real" Orthodox.


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## übermönch

On Cyprus *i've seen* several people going on one knee facing a church and then doing the sign when* passing by*. That kind of seemed odd to me.


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## Etcetera

übermönch said:


> On Cyprus *i've seen* several people going on one knee facing a church and then doing the sign when* passing by*. That kind of seemed odd to me.


It would seem odd to me, too, if I saw something like that in Russia.
As I already said once, we don't have strong Orthodox traditions anymore...


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## ireney

Cross when passing by yes, it's done here from quite a few. In fact some will also give you the odd look for i.e. laughing out loud because you just read something funny the same time the bus passed a church and for not taking any notice of the churches (note the plural, we have plenty) you pass.

Going on one knee while passing no, it's definitely not done in Greece.


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## Insider

I'm of Greek-Catholic origin, and I do cross myself while passing by the church. I use three fingers (thumb, index, middle) while crossing myself. And I do in such way: head - thorax - right - left. 

I'm not sure what about Orthdox, probably that're doing the same things. I don't know because in my city people of Orthodox origin are minority, not a lot of theirs churches are situated or built, but still they exist.

Insider


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## Outsider

übermönch said:


> On Cyprus *i've seen* several people going on one knee facing a church and then doing the sign when* passing by*. That kind of seemed odd to me.


Crossing oneself when passing by a church is quite common for Catholics, here. Kneeling, not really.


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