# Calling a supermarket a grocer's (shop) or grocery in BrE [+greengrocer]



## meijin

Hi, just like it is normal in AmE to call a supermarket a "grocery store" (meaning a store that sells mainly food), is it normal in BrE to call a supermarket a "grocer's (shop)" or "grocery"? Or do you use the term only when the store is very small? I made up the following example conversation.

Father: Where are you going?
Son: A grocer's. / A grocery.
Father: Which one?
Son:  Does it matter? It's Sainsbury's.


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## sound shift

No. It's not normal, I'm afraid.


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## london calling

Not at all. If I go to a supermarket I go to a supermarket. Sainsbury's is not a grocer's.


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## meijin

Thank you both very much. Another interesting AE/BE difference...


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## kentix

Grocery store and supermarket are exact synonyms in the U.S. It's just personal preference which one you say.


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## AnythingGoes

kentix said:


> Grocery store and supermarket are exact synonyms in the U.S. It's just personal preference which one you say.


I wouldn't go that far. They overlap, but "supermarket" evokes the image of a larger store than "grocery store".

My little town has a grocery store which I knew as "the supermarket" when I was a boy and it was even smaller than it is now. My wife always complains when I call Tom's a "supermarket" because it's so small. She says "No, that's a grocery store."


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## meijin

Thanks both for the helpful comments.


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## meijin

london calling said:


> Not at all. If I go to a supermarket I go to a supermarket. Sainsbury's is not a grocer's.


Maybe it's normal for British newspapers to call supermarkets _grocers_? The following is from this BBC's article: Lidl tops Waitrose to become UK's seventh biggest grocer.

Since the financial crisis in 2008, the four biggest *grocers *Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons have faced increasing pressure from luxury supermarket brands like Waitrose, as well as German discount chains like Aldi and Lidl.


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## suzi br

meijin said:


> Maybe it's normal for British newspapers to call supermarkets _grocers_? The following is from this BBC's article: Lidl tops Waitrose to become UK's seventh biggest grocer.
> 
> Since the financial crisis in 2008, the four biggest *grocers *Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons have faced increasing pressure from luxury supermarket brands like Waitrose, as well as German discount chains like Aldi and Lidl.



That’s an interesting use, quite specific to comparing the market leaders in the supermarket industry.
They probably use grocer because it’s shorter than any alternative way if grouping these businesses.


In daily life I never hear grocer’s or grocery as a type of shop.  We either go the supermarkt (more usually named as Tescos etc) or just « the shop ».

I have heard things like “ we need some groceries” but equally we can say “we need some shopping” and in my house that would mean something for meals, etc.


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## meijin

suzi br said:


> In daily life I never hear grocer’s grocery as a type of shop. We either go the supermarket or just « the shop ».


Do you not have shops in your area that are smaller than supermarkets but larger than "the shops" (I think these are corner shops, or convenience stores) that mainly sell food and drinks (e.g. fruit and veg, meat, dairy products, tinned food, non-alcoholic drinks)? Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really _super_? (Maybe some people call them _minimarkets_?)


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## london calling

meijin said:


> Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really _super_? (Maybe some people call them _minimarkets_?)


I certainly don't. I'd just call it a local shop or, if you pushed me to be specific, I'd call it a grocer's. The one near my parents' home in London sells newspapers as well and so is known as the newsagent's.

Oddly enough, 'minimarket' is a term I use when speaking Italian, never when speaking English.


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## PaulQ

meijin said:


> (Maybe some people call them _minimarkets_?)


I call them "the shop" if it is local; - "I'm going to the shop - do you want anything?"
A convenience store (somewhat formal) or mini-supermarket as a generality, "My friend owned a convenience store/mini-supermarket in Scotland."
by (i) their franchise name (strangely with the definite article.) - "I'm going to the Spar - do you want anything?"
or (ii) the owner's name - "I'm going to Rajesh's - do you want anything?"
or (iii) a locative - - "I'm going to the top/bottom/<insert name of district> shop - do you want anything?"
to distinguish one local shop from another.


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## meijin

In AmE, I think convenience stores and grocery stores are different. Grocery stores are bigger than convenience stores, and big grocery stores are called supermarkets, or just grocery stores. 

In Japan, we have these small grocery stores as well and they sell mainly fresh produce, meat, fish, dairy products, tinned food, bread, beverages, etc., and these are usually not chain stores. We never call them convenience stores. Examples of convenience stores are Seven Eleven, Lawson, Familymart, etc. 

In Britain, it seems supermarkets are too big to be called "grocer's (shops)" or "groceries", corner shops or convenience stores don't sell enough food to be called so. If a British speaker said, for example, "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", does it mean the same as "I work part time at a small grocery store" in AmE?


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## PaulQ

meijin said:


> In Britain, it seems supermarkets are too big to be called "grocer's (shops)" or "groceries",


No, the reason is that supermarkets sell everything from food to electronic goods - they have a grocery section, a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, a clothes section, etc., etc. *Grocery *is restrictive.

Grocers and groceries do exit as separate occupations and shops, but in small numbers. They sell fruit and vegetables and dry goods. So if someone said to me "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", I would understand that he worked in such a shop.


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## meijin

PaulQ said:


> No, the reason is that supermarkets sell everything from food to electronic goods - they have a grocery section, a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, a clothes section, etc., etc. *Grocery *is restrictive.


Interesting. If I'm not mistaken, these stores, if really big, are called "superstores", "supercenters", or "hypermarkets" in the US (I think "hypermarkets" are less common in the US than in Europe). And I think *grocery *is _not _restrictive in the US. I think large "grocery stores" in the US also have a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, etc.



PaulQ said:


> Grocers and groceries do exit as separate occupations and shops, but in small numbers. They sell fruit and vegetables and dry goods. So if someone said to me "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", I would understand that he worked in such a shop.


I see. Good to know.


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## kentix

meijin said:


> I think large "grocery stores" in the US also have a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, etc.


Yes, it wouldn't be my idea of a grocery store without that. (Except we don't have fishmongers. The meat department handles meat and fish.)

Here's a department list from Kroger:
Meat & Seafood
Grocery
Produce
Natural & Organic
Deli
Bakery
Adult Beverage
Cleaning and Household Essentials
Health
Beauty & Personal Care
Floral
Pet Care

And just about every regular Kroger will have a pharmacy, too. (There are some smaller stores that don't.)

Not all of the above are necessarily physically separate departments. The pet stuff is just in the normal aisles, for instance. Some of those are more "shopping categories" for their online business where you order and come pick it up. I was a bit surprised not to see dairy listed also.


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## meijin

kentix said:


> Here's a department list from Kroger:
> Meat & Seafood
> Grocery
> Produce
> Natural & Organic
> Deli
> Bakery
> Adult Beverage
> Cleaning and Household Essentials
> Health
> Beauty & Personal Care
> Floral
> Pet Care


Thanks Kentix. Looking at the list, I had to wonder what the word "grocery" exactly means. I looked it up in the WR dictionary, but it didn't really help.
The following is from Wikitionary, but the definition is pretty ambiguous.

Noun
*grocery *(_plural _groceries)
1. (usually groceries) retail foodstuffs and other household supplies.


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## kentix

I'm guessing that covers all the canned goods, breakfast cereals, cookies, rice and pasta, soft drinks, snacks, potato chips, boxed goods, etc. - basically anything that doesn't spoil - like meat and produce - and so doesn't need special handling. It just goes on the shelves.


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## meijin

OK, so even though groceries are only a small part of the merchandise sold there, it's natural in AmE to call the entire store a grocery store. And if it's huge and sells home electronics, clothes, etc., you wouldn't call it a grocery store or supermarket, and instead call it a superstore/supercenter or call it by the name of the store. Am I right?


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## kentix

Yes.

But part of it is historical, too. Kroger has been a grocery store for decades. Lately, some of their stores have gotten bigger and they sell more stuff - like lawn furniture, small electronics and whatever. But they are still a grocery store because that's still their primary business, the stores are still organized like grocery stores (the way the aisles and departments and checkout lines are laid out), and that's how people think of them.

Walmart was a general goods store for decades. It didn't sell groceries. Lately (well, for the last several decades), they have added grocery departments but they aren't a grocery store. They are laid out like a general goods store and have all the departments a general goods store has (electronics, clothing, sports and outdoor equipment (including hunting-related goods in some areas), household goods, a pharmacy, a jewelry department, an automotive section, a pet section, etc.) They just decided to add groceries as another way to make money. But they aren't a grocery store or a supermarket in the traditional meaning.

You could say the two types of stores are converging (to some extent) but they are still noticeably different. They doubled the size of our Kroger but it still doesn't look or feel anything like a WalMart.

_OK, so even though groceries are only a small part of the merchandise sold there_

In the sense of the standard phrase _I need to go grocery shopping_, groceries covers anything you eat (in my mind) including the meat and fish and fruit and baked goods and everything else. So I wouldn't say it's a small part. It's their main business.

Here's a typical grocery store layout:
Grocery Store Aisles Map Google Search Storage Pinterest Storage Cool Ideas 6149 | thehappyhypocrite.org
Almost everything is in long, parallel aisles

Here's a typical (newer) WalMart layout (click on the picture):
Weblinksnewsletter: Severn Maryland WalMart Opens - Well Received!
Things are divided up into rectangular, thematic sections by aisles


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## You little ripper!

To me a grocery store is a small store that sells a restricted amount of food and other household products, essentials you might need when the larger supermarkets are closed.

A minimart is a small supermarket and usually has a turnstile to get in and a checkout counter (or more) where you pay.

A supermarket is a much larger version of the minimart and usually sells a limited range of clothing items and other stuff you don’t get there or at the grocery store.


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## meijin

kentix said:


> In the sense of the standard phrase _I need to go grocery shopping_, groceries covers anything you eat (in my mind) including the meat and fish and fruit and baked goods and everything else. So I wouldn't say it's a small part. It's their main business.


You're right. In that sense, it's their main business. Thanks a lot for all the explanations and the pictures (now I get the picture ). 



You little ripper! said:


> To me a grocery store is a small store that sells a restricted amount of food and other household products, essentials you might need when the larger supermarkets are closed.


So "grocery store" in Australia is similar to (or the same as) "grocer's (shop)" in the UK, I suppose.



You little ripper! said:


> A minimart is a small supermarket and usually has a turnstile to get in and a checkout counter (or more) where you pay.
> 
> A supermarket is a much larger version of the minimart and usually sells a limited range of clothing items and other stuff you don’t get there or at the grocery store.


Do people in Australia actually say, for example, "I'm going to a minimart", "I work at a minimart", etc. in daily speech?


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## You little ripper!

meijin said:


> So "grocery store" in Australia is similar to (or the same as) "grocer's (shop)" in the UK, I suppose.
> 
> 
> Do people in Australia actually say, for example, "I'm going to a minimart", "I work at a minimart", etc. in daily speech?


_I’m going to  the  minimart/I work at a minimart _wouldn’t be that common, but only because there aren’t that many of them here. I’ve seen and been to a few in Sydney, but I haven’t seen any in Perth. Most people go to a larger supermarket because they’re cheaper.


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## natkretep

_Minimart_ is sometimes used here, but there really aren't so many of them. We might use 'convenience store'. When I lived in the UK, I don't recall anyone talking about going to the grocer's. It was always just the shop, or the corner shop or possibly the newsagent's. We used to go to the greengrocer's though (which sold fruit and vegetables only).


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## suzi br

meijin said:


> Do you not have shops in your area that are smaller than supermarkets but larger than "the shops" (I think these are corner shops, or convenience stores) that mainly sell food and drinks (e.g. fruit and veg, meat, dairy products, tinned food, non-alcoholic drinks)? Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really _super_? (Maybe some people call them _minimarkets_?)



We have lots of different sized shops, yes. In the trade these might have different names which might be used in legal documents or journalism, or even written on the store front. BUT everyday people don’t use terms like convenience store or minimart in everyday conversation in the UK. Corner shop is the exception- especially if people are having a conversation about something other than actually using the shop (e.g. my grandparents used to own a corner shop).  Culturally “corner shops” have a place in British life. Even so, when I am popping out for groceries I never use the word grocer/ groceries or any of the synonyms you suggest. I go to Tescos or I go to the shop. It’s about local habits and local geography. Everyone knows what and where “the shop” is.

Another fascinating revelation about US/UK differences. I didn’t know they use grocer so frequently. 

Plus an interesting reflection on context. Yes, we have all theses synonyms or distinctions which do have some uses, but they’re only used in a narrow set of circumstances.


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## meijin

Thank you all very much for all these explanations which were very helpful. I learned a great deal in this thread.


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## zaffy

Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?


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## heypresto

I don't think so. Why would we go into a DIY shop looking for something to eat? We would go into the café/cake shop/burger joint/sandwich bar/pub/restaurant/supermarket next door.


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## meijin

heypresto said:


> Why would we go into a DIY shop


I couldn't help remembering your reply below from use of "store" (other than department store) in BE.
Isn't "DIY _store_" more appropriate if it's a large shop that happens to have a grocery section?



heypresto said:


> We have a small local _shop_ that sells a lot of what could be called DIY stuff. Being a very small family business, I suppose I _could_ call it a DIY shop. But I tend to call it a hardware shop (or store).
> 
> A DIY store, for me, is a much larger place:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some places call themselves DIY *centres*:


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## ewie

zaffy said:


> Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?


If he asked that particular question of someone under 20, they might reply _What's 'grocery'? It sounds gross._
If of someone aged 20-30: _What ... you mean, like, __food?_
If of someone aged 30+: _We don't have one: this is Homebase/B&Q _[etc.] _~ try Sainsburys next door._


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?
> 
> View attachment 62146


I don't think a BE speaker would think of asking the question.  He _might_ ask "D'you sell sandwiches?": some non-food shops do sell pre-packed sandwiches and other 'snack foods' as a sideline.


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## heypresto

meijin said:


> I couldn't help remembering your reply below from use of "store" (other than department store) in BE.
> Isn't "DIY _store_" more appropriate if it's a large shop that happens to have a grocery section?


This is neither here nor there. Whether it's a DIY shop or a store, we wouldn't go in one looking for something to eat.


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## Keith Bradford

Although "grocery/groceries" is part of my everyday vocabulary, the "grocer's (shop)" has not been since my childhood.  Even then, it had its name: _Home and Colonial, Lipton's_, Mr Morgan's corner shop...

This still maintains.  In France I go to the supermarket (_Super U, Géant_...) to buy the week's supplies which are groceries as defined in #17:


meijin said:


> ... retail foodstuffs and other household supplies.


So why couldn't I call that supermarket a grocer's, like the Americans do?  Because at least a third of its floor area is taken up with books, stationery, gardening supplies, hardware, flowers, furnishings, shoes and clothing, none of which count as grocery.  And even among the foodstuffs, fruit and vegetables are to my mind greengrocery rather than grocery.  About frozen food I'm undecided; I've never thought of it as "frozen grocery".


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Why would we go into a DIY shop looking for something to eat?


Well, he was in the middle of nowhere. He planned to get some fastfood at a petrol station but it happened to be closed. They came across that store and thought there would be a fast food section there, which is pretty common, at least here in Poland.

Do you have OBI DIY sores in the UK? Those are huge DIY shops and they often have a biscuit section shown here:






In fact, those guys did find what they called a grocery section.


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> Well, he was in the middle of nowhere. He planned to get some fastfood at a petrol station but it happened to be closed. They came across that store and thought there would be a fast food section there, which is pretty common, at least here in Poland.


Ah, now we have some context. 

No, I wouldn't say "Where is the grocery section?"


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## natkretep

Wouldn't it have been easier to ask, 'Do you sell any food?'


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> No, I wouldn't say "Where is the grocery section?"





natkretep said:


> Wouldn't it have been easier to ask, 'Do you sell any food?'


OK, I see BE wouldn't ask that question, but say we have a huge petrol station, where there are different sections. Here, for example, we have an oil and car parts section and a paper and magazine section. Say, there is another section with food. What would you call it? I guess AE would call it a "grocery section".


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> Say, there is another section with food. What would you call it?


We'd probably call it a _food section_.


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> OK, I see BE wouldn't ask that question, but say we have a huge petrol station, where there are different sections. Here, for example, we have an oil and car parts section and a paper and magazine section. Say, there is another section with food. What would you call it? I guess AE would call it a "grocery section".
> 
> View attachment 62162


I don't think I've ever been in a petrol station where it wasn't obvious where it was, but if I needed to ask, I'd probably say "D'you sell sandwiches/milk/juice... "or whatever I needed to buy.  I would definitely not use the word "grocery".


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## zaffy

I came across this example in a Polish-English dictionary. So, is that AE? Could a BE say that?

_Can you get some groceries tomorrow, on your way home?_

Well, looking at the Longman definition of "groceries", it is used in BE too. Is it?


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## ewie

Keith Bradford said:


> Although "grocery/groceries" is part of my everyday vocabulary


Do you mean you actually use it every day, Keith, or that you could/would use it every day if required?

I can't remember the last time I used _grocery/groceries_ ~ in speech or writing? I'd call it passive vocabulary.


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> Could a BE say that?
> 
> _Can you get some groceries tomorrow, on your way home?_


No. it's _extremely _unlikely. 



zaffy said:


> Well, looking at the Longman definition of "groceries", it is used in BE too. Is it?


Well, it's the correct definition of 'groceries', but it doesn't mean that we actually use the word to any great extent.


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> I came across this example in a Polish-English dictionary. So, is that AE? Could a BE say that?
> 
> _Can you get some groceries tomorrow, on your way home?_
> 
> Well, looking at the Longman definition of "groceries", it is used in BE too. Is it?
> View attachment 62164


The word obviously still exists in BE, and most BE speakers would know what it meant, but the point is that in most ordinary contexts nowadays we would probably call them something else.


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## zaffy

And in business/formal context, "groceries" is fine in BE, right?
However, I came across this and wonder why "groceries and food" was used, as, I believe, "food" is included in "groceries", isn't it?


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## heypresto

They presumably have more specific definitions in the supermarket industry than we mere customers might use in everyday speech. 

Not that we use 'groceries' in everyday speech.


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## zaffy

So BE speakers don't do the shopping _at the grocer's_ but they do _at the greengrocer's_, right?


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## Loob

If I could find a grocer's, I would shop there. Ditto with greengrocer's.


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## Hermione Golightly

'Groceries' doesn't mean something to eat straightaway!
I get a weekly home delivery of household items, fresh foodstuffs,  groceries such as flour, butter, cereal, eggs, swiss black cherry jam, and stuff from the food cupboardmost of which keeps for some time.
Many general type shops, or even specialist stores like Boots the pharmacy chain, sell foods for a light lunch, kept in fridges for self service. There's a store near u called Wilkersons that sells all sorts like Woolworths did, including tools paint and gardening stuff. The big DIY B&Q, has a very small cafe. Only a Martian would go there and ask for 'groceries'.


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## Hermione Golightly

There are some places and some people who do shop at specialist shops. The vast majority shop at supermarkets. I've not heard the terms 'grocer's' or 'greengrocer's' for years.
The nearest to that are the street stalls selling only fruit and veg.


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## AutumnOwl

Loob said:


> If I could find a grocer's, I would shop there. Ditto with greengrocer's.


When talking about a grocer's compared to a supermarket, what kind of things (besides food) are sold at the grocer's?


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## heypresto

Hermione Golightly said:


> I've not heard the terms 'grocer's' or 'greengrocer's' for years.


Me neither. And I say this with a huge sigh.


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## zaffy

Hermione Golightly said:


> I've not heard the terms 'grocer's' or 'greengrocer's' for years.


Yet another example of artificial English in coursebooks here in Europe. Well, "grocer's" is AE so they don't use it, however, they often use "greengrocer's" and I thought it was widely used in BE.


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## Loob

AutumnOwl said:


> When talking about a grocer's compared to a supermarket, what kind of things (besides food) are sold at the grocer's?



I can't remember, to be honest.


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## Hermione Golightly

'Grocer's' is/was BE too.


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## Loob

zaffy said:


> "grocer's" is AE


What do you mean??
----
_cross-posted & agreeing with Hermione_


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## Hermione Golightly

Grocer's didn't sell anything that's not sold in supermarkets! They are small shops with a limited range.


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## Hermione Golightly

By the way, the idea of asking someone to "pick up some groceries" on the way home is ridiculous. You would specify what was needed.


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## boozer

Hermione Golightly said:


> By the way, the idea of asking someone to "pick up some groceries" on the way home is ridiculous.


You open the fridge and you see this:

Any groceries will do.


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## AutumnOwl

Hermione Golightly said:


> Grocer's didn't sell anything that's not sold in supermarkets! They are small shops with a limited range.


How small would a grocer's be? Why I ask is that where I live we have shops of about the same size, with about the same range of food, household goods, etc, but some sell in addition things like clothes, books, electronics, etc, while others don't. The first ones I would call supermarkets, but not the second ones.


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## Uncle Jack

Greengrocers still exist (there is one in the town where I live), and they are either called "greengrocers" (perhaps with an apostrophe) or "fruit and veg shops". I don't think any other terms are widely used.

In ordinary BrE, "grocer" and "grocers" (with or without an apostrophe) aren't used at all. Small general stores are called corner shops, village stores/village shops, convenience stores and a variety of other names. I expect that some of the older ones have retained the word "grocer" (it sounds friendly and old-fashioned), but it isn't a name most people would think of using.

In business English, "grocer" is used for food retailing, and is mostly applied to supermarket chains. But while an investor might call J Sainsbury a grocer, an ordinary person would not. Sainsbury's is a supermarket, or a chain of supermarkets.


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## Hermione Golightly

Grocers would sell what is described in on-line shopping as the food cupboard section, that's to say non-perishables although they would also sell household items like detergent and dairy items. They did not sell fresh food and veg, meat or fish.
I don't know of any old-fashioned type grocer's where I live in an outer borough of London.
These days the nearest to a grocer's is the corner shop.
There's such a huge variety of shops that it's really hard to draw hard and fast lines. There's the mini-marts and 'only foods' the stores that do not sell household items, but sell a lot of food, drink and groceries like dried goods.
Zaffy's enquiry seems to be based on unusual or out-of-date sources.
It's far more likely that some one would be asked to 'pick up a Chinese' or 'an Indian' on their way home, especially if the fridge is bare of even a bottle of vodka.


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## heypresto

Something like this comes to mind:


Hermione Golightly said:


> if the fridge is bare of even a bottle of vodka.


In which case, we might add ' . . . and pop in the offy (off license) on the way, and pick up a bottle of vodka to have with it.'


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## Keith Bradford

ewie said:


> ... or that you could/would use it every day if required?...


Yes, that one.



AutumnOwl said:


> When talking about a grocer's compared to a supermarket, what kind of things (besides food) are sold at the grocer's?


See Hermione's answer in 61: There's such a huge variety of shops that it's really hard to draw hard and fast lines.


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> Yet another example of artificial English in coursebooks here in Europe. Well, "grocer's" is AE so they don't use it, however, they often use "greengrocer's" and I thought it was widely used in BE.


 (see #55)
To my knowledge, "grocer's" and "greengrocer's" are not at all AE.  "Grocery store" and "groceries" are, though.


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## Rover_KE

meijin said:


> Maybe it's normal for British newspapers to call supermarkets _grocers_? The following is from this BBC's article: Lidl tops Waitrose to become UK's seventh biggest grocer.
> 
> Since the financial crisis in 2008, the four biggest *grocers *Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons have faced increasing pressure from luxury supermarket brands like Waitrose, as well as German discount chains like Aldi and Lidl.


It isn't normal, no. That's a highly unusual label for those supermarkets, and a wildly inaccurate one.


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## ewie

Well, it's a pretty standard term in the trade, whose magazine is called


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## meijin

Other comments now in: 'DIY store / home improvement store
Cagey, moderator 



Roxxxannne said:


> To my knowledge, "grocer's" and "greengrocer's" are not at all AE.


I think "greengrocer" is used at least in San Francisco (see below).

_“Greengrocer” is commonly used in San Francisco–and not just these days. I heard it all the time growing up in the 1970s when the city was just another working class town._
Source: “Greengrocer” - Not One-Off Britishism


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## MedievalElf

< Removed comment that is now part of 'DIY store / home improvement store
Cagey, moderator >

Being a lancashire lad, we have Booth's the good grocer store, but I always go to the veg shop, not the green grocer.


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## Myridon

For what it's worth, I looked up the video that the "DIY store" picture comes from in #27.  It's not a DIY store or a hardware store.  It's a John Deere tractor store that happens to also have a gas station in it.  He was expecting  there to be food because he just got gas before coming in and he knows that it's a gas station.


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## Roxxxannne

Thanks -- I thought Sales, Service and Parts looked odd for sections of a hardware store.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Roxxxannne said:


> Big "DIY stores" in BrE may be called" home improvement stores" and "home improvement centers' in the US "officially," but I doubt that many people actually say "I'm going to the home improvement center to get a stepladder and a gallon of paint." They'd be more likely to say the name of the store: I'm going to Lowe's/Home Depot....".


I remember that show Home Improvement with Tim Allen ( ) but outside that, I don't remember people really using the term when I spent some time in the U.S. Like you said before, either the name of the store would be used or just "the hardware store".


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## zaffy

And does AE use "groceries" in casual conversation?


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## Roxxxannne

I don't recall casually conversing about "groceries" recently, but I'm sure many Americans know and understand the word.


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## zaffy

These are dictionary examples. Do you like them?

_My wife wrote a check to pay for groceries.
Mom wanted me to get the groceries.
He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._


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## Roxxxannne

Sure.


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## zaffy

I'm wondering why BE doesn't use "groceries" and I believe we can't substitute this word with anything else. 
As I believe "gorceries" are not only food, so to speak, but anything that we might need in the kitchen, for example, baking soda or baking powder.  

So could a BE speaker share their thoughts about this example?
_He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._

I guess BE would use "bag with food", but what if there were things like baking soda inside?


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## MedievalElf

It is not that groceries is not understood, but I don't think it is used. Context is normally enough to differentiate. I could conceive of someone saying 'I am going food shopping', but they are more likely to say I am going to {supermarket name}'s.


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## zaffy

MedievalElf said:


> It is not that groceries is not understood, but I don't think it is used. Context is normally enough to differentiate. I could conceive of someone saying 'I am going food shopping', but they are more likely to say I am going to {supermarket name}'s.


And how do you say this in BE?
_He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._


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## MedievalElf

I would just say 'shopping' not even bag of


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## zaffy

MedievalElf said:


> I would just say 'shopping' not even bag of


But "shopping", as I believe, could be of any kind, clothes or some tools too. And in that AE example it was clear it was food or the like.


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## MedievalElf

I don't disagree, but just because it is logical, that doesn't make it so.


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## Roxxxannne

MedievalElf said:


> It is not that groceries is not understood, but I don't think it is used. Context is normally enough to differentiate. I could conceive of someone saying 'I am going food shopping', but they are more likely to say I am going to {supermarket name}'s.


That's what I'd say too: "I'm going food shopping" or "I'm going to Fairway."     I don't recall hearing anyone mention 'groceries' specifically, although I'm sure people in the US generally know what the word means.


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## MedievalElf

I guess, you really only talk about shopping in general terms;
Can you bring the shopping in?
Can you put the shopping away?
I am going shopping.

And food shopping is often a routine and predictable, so you might differentiate if you were shopping for something that wasn't groceries


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## Pedro y La Torre

zaffy said:


> So could a BE speaker share their thoughts about this example?
> _He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._
> 
> I guess BE would use "bag with food", but what if there were things like baking soda inside?


We use it in Ireland including the British part of Ireland (Northern Ireland). I'd bet that it's used _somewhere _in Great Britain (Scotland for example).

Although in that example I agree with what others have said, we'd refer to it as "the shopping" ("He set the shopping down on the floor").


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## Wordy McWordface

MedievalElf said:


> I guess, you really only talk about shopping in general terms;
> Can you bring the shopping in?
> Can you put the shopping away?
> I am going shopping.
> 
> And food shopping is often a routine and predictable, so you might differentiate if you were shopping for something that wasn't groceries


I agree that 'shopping' is the term we'd be most likely to use in BrE.  "Can you bring the shopping in?" means supermarket bags full of groceries and fresh produce, but also toilet paper, washing powder, clingfilm and so on.

This reminds me of the only time I recall ever having had a genuine misunderstanding with a fellow native speaker. Early one evening, an American girl gives me the keys to an apartment I'm renting for the week with my family. Travel-worn and still surrounded by suitcases, I'm aware that we need to stock up at least on some basic foodstuffs -  bread, tea, milk and on - before nightfall. Just as she's leaving, I say, rather anxiously:

"Is there anywhere nearby where I can get some shopping?"

She gets out a map of the city and explains that a forty-minute bus ride will take me to an area where there are some stores selling selling fashionable clothes, designer shoes, fancy handbags and the like.   I realise that there's a miscommunication here. I desperately try to think of a word I've heard Americans use in the movies and tentatively try:

"Um .... groceries??"

Problem solved! At last we understand each other. She tells me there's a supermarket on the corner.

Would any AmE speakers like to comment on this?  Do you not use 'shopping' in this way?


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> But "shopping", as I believe, could be of any kind, clothes or some tools too. And in that AE example it was clear it was food or the like.


Not really. In BrE, "shopping" (concrete noun) is very common in respect of ordinary household purchases, including food. It tends not to be used for more interesting things. If a person has just bought a new dress, a book, some bulbs for the garden or an electric drill, for example, we would probably not refer to it as "shopping".

As a noun describing an action, "shopping" has a wider use. A person who says that their favourite activity is shopping is probably not talking about buying milk and dog food.


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## Wordy McWordface

zaffy said:


> So could a BE speaker share their thoughts about this example?
> _He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._


'Bag of shopping.'   See #93
Or just 'shopping.'


zaffy said:


> Yet another example of artificial English in coursebooks here in Europe. Well, "grocer's" is AE so they don't use it, however, they often use "greengrocer's" and I thought it was widely used in BE.


A few misunderstandings here, Zaffy:

_artificial English?_
Not really. Perhaps just slightly outdated.

_"grocer's" is AE_
No. Not true at all. AE sometimes uses 'groceries', but the idea of a 'a grocer's' [shop] - a small family business specialising in only in one category of products ( in this case mainly store-cupboard staples such sugar, flour etc but no fresh food, no fruit, vegetables, meat or fish) -  is alien both to AmE culture and language.  The US has always had stores selling a wide range of products.

_coursebooks .... so they don't use [grocer's]?_
The reason why the coursebooks don't use the term 'grocers' is that grocer's shops disappeared a generation ago. They've been replaced by shops selling groceries plus snacks, confectionery, toiletries and other household products, magazines, alcohol, cigarettes, lottery scratch cards and so on. They've basically become all-purpose corner shops and convenience stores.

_they often use "greengrocer's" _
This is what's slightly outdated. When your coursebooks were written, maybe ten or twenty years ago, every town and high street in the UK still had one or more of these:




Now there are fewer and fewer of them, but they do still exist.  But even when we did buy all our fruit and veg from shops like this, we'd be more likely to say "I'm going to Clarke's to get some potatoes" than "I'm going the greengrocer's".  We tend to refer to retail outlets by name rather than by category.
When I was a child, there was a parade of shops nearby where everyone did their daily shopping: there was a butcher's, a baker's, a grocer's, a greengrocer's, a newsagent's and a hardware shop.  But nobody ever used these words - the shops were only ever referred to by the surname of the family who ran them.


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## Uncle Jack

Wordy McWordface said:


> we'd be more likely to say "I'm going to Clarke's to get some potatoes" than "I'm going the greengrocer's". We tend to refer to retail outlets by name rather than by category.


My experience is that tends to be true for shops that aren't distinguishable by what they sell, and it is also true for "brands". We go to Greggs (a very recognisable brand); we don't go to the bakers. Or, at least, most people don't, for the simple reason that traditional bakers no longer exist in many places.

However, in backward (or should I say more civilised) places like where I live, where we still have bakers and greengrocers and ironmongers and other small shops, I usually refer to the places where I shop by what they sell rather than their names, and this applies whether there is only one of that type of shop or not. I suppose a lot of this is down to my memory. I have no idea what the chemists or the newsagents are called, and I would have to make a bit of a guess at the name of the greengrocers. I know very well what the two butchers are called, but I would still usually say that I was going to the butchers rather than to Harrison's. I think the only shop I routinely refer to by name (apart from the supermarkets) is the deli-cum-wine-shop, because it sells such a variety of goods it does not fit into a single category.

We don't have a grocers, though.


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## MedievalElf

Wot no Booth's ? :0


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## Myridon

Roxxxannne said:


> That's what I'd say too: "I'm going food shipping"


I'd say "I'm going grocery shopping" or "to the grocery store."  "Food shopping" sounds very strange to me.  Must be a regional thing.


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## kentix

Roxxxannne said:


> That's what I'd say too: "I'm going food shipping" or "I'm going to Fairway." I don't recall hearing anyone mention 'groceries' specifically, although I'm sure people in the US generally know what the word means.


You must live in a different world than me. I can't imagine going food shopping. I go grocery shopping. When I get home I put my groceries away. I mostly shop at a grocery store. I don't generally use the word supermarket although it's not strange or rare, but it's not my choice.

Someone could easily stop and get groceries on the way home. And if you ask someone to help you put the groceries away, they'll know the exact task you are asking them to help you with.


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## Roxxxannne

It might be a regional thing confined to my household.


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## kentix

> "Is there anywhere nearby where I can get some shopping?"





Wordy McWordface said:


> Would any AmE speakers like to comment on this? Do you not use 'shopping' in this way?


Nope, not in that way.


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## zaffy

kentix said:


> When I get home I put my groceries away.



I see. So in AE, my wife might ask me to "put the groceries away", right? Could a BE speaker say their version of that example, please?


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## Wordy McWordface

zaffy said:


> I see. So in AE, my wife might ask me to "put the groceries away", right? Could a BE speaker say their version of that example, please?


We've already given you a BrE version.   I'd ask you to put *the shopping *away.


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## Uncle Jack

MedievalElf said:


> Wot no Booth's ? :0


Alas not, not that I can really afford to shop in Booth's.


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## MedievalElf

Yes they have tried to set themselves up as a bit upmarket, it happened when they changed colour from blue to green... less co-op more waitrose now perhaps?


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## heypresto

Just to add some much needed length to this thread, in Scotland, they refer to 'shopping' as 'messages.' So 'I'll do the shopping' = 'I'll get the messages.'


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## natkretep

Wordy McWordface said:


> "Is there anywhere nearby where I can get some shopping?"


I don't say 'grocery' generally, but I think even I might find it ambiguous. I might say, 'Is there a supermarket in the area?', or if I'm just thinking of bread, milk and eggs, 'Is there a corner shop/convenience store nearby?'


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## kentix

"Convenience store" would definitely fulfill that role here. I don't know if you can get eggs there, I doubt it, but you can get enough to survive a night.


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## Cagey

The discussion of home improvement and DIY stores has been moved to: DIY store / home improvement store
Please use this thread to discuss stores/shops where you can buy food.


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## kentix

_My wife wrote a check to pay for *our/the* groceries.
Mom wanted me to get some things at the grocery store.
He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor counter.
 _


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## Keith Bradford

zaffy said:


> And how do you say this in BE?
> _He walked in and set the bag of groceries down on the floor._


Exactly like that.  I don't know why my fellow-countrymen are so insistent on denying it.  Tha sentence sounds perfectly commonplace to me and Google Books Ngram Viewer confims that it's twice as common as "bag of shopping".


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> supermarkets sell everything from food to electronic goods - they have a *grocery section*, a *butcher's section*, a fishmonger, a *bakery*, a clothes section, etc., etc. *Grocery *is restrictive.


So, meat, fish or bread is not grocery?


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## london calling

zaffy said:


> So, meat, fish or bread is not grocery?


We tend to use it mean fruit and veg.


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## MedievalElf

Grocery is can include meat and fish, but it is probably stored in a none perishable form, such as tins or frozen


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## zaffy

So if we mean food shopping, this is what we might say in BE and AE. Right? 

BrE:
I'm going shopping. Do you want anything?
I'm going to the shop. Do you want anything?

AmE:
I'm going grocery shopping. Do you want anything?
I'm going to the grocery shop. Do you want anything?


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> BrE:
> I'm going shopping. Do you want anything?
> I'm going to the shop. Do you want anything?


 Or 'I'm going to the shop*s* . . . '


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## ewie

zaffy said:


> AmE:
> 
> I'm going to the grocery shop. Do you want anything?


I'm pretty sure they'd say _grocery* store*_ rather than _grocery shop._
---------------------------------------------
BrE [re intro to post #107]:
in this part of the world you might well hear _I'm going food-shopping._


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## zaffy

ewie said:


> I'm pretty sure they'd say _grocery* store*_ rather than _grocery shop._


Oh, yeah. I actually meant to write "store"  but looks like my mind is BE-oriented


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## Wordy McWordface

london calling said:


> We tend to use it mean fruit and veg.


Interesting.

I think of the core meaning of 'groceries' as the store-cupboard stuff which the old-school grocer's shop used to sell: mainly dry goods such as sugar, tea, flour, plus food in jars, packets and tins.





Back in the day, grocer's did sell cured meat, though: the forerunner of today's deli-counter. My abiding memory of my local grocer is of him presiding over his big shiny bacon slicer, surrounded by shelves of packets, tins and jars.  Other versions of Happy Families have images of the grocer doing just that.


But traditional grocers didn't sell fresh fruit or veg: you had to go to the greengrocer's for those.


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## london calling

Wordy McWordface said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I think of the core meaning of 'groceries' as the store-cupboard stuff which the old-school grocer's shop used to sell: mainly dry goods: sugar, tea, flour and on, and food in jars,packets and tins.
> 
> View attachment 62292
> Back in the day, grocer's did sell cured meat, though: the forerunner of today's deli-counter. My abiding memory of my local grocer is of him presiding over his big shiny bacon slicer, surrounded by shelves of packets, tins and jars.  Other versions of Happy Families have images of the grocer doing just that.
> 
> 
> But traditional grocers didn't sell fresh fruit or veg: you had to go to the greengrocer's for those.


I tend to equate grocer's to greengrocer's. It's probably just me.


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## Hermione Golightly

I agree 100% with Wordy's #111. The grocer's of my youth would sell bacon and ham (none of your foreign stuff), an English cheese like Cheddar, and boiled sweets in jars. Also Danish butter in barrels, New Zealand butter and maybe some English, I suppose, but we always had the Danish which was excellent.


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## Wordy McWordface

Hermione Golightly said:


> I agree 100% with Wordy's #111. The grocer's of my youth would sell bacon and ham (none of your foreign stuff), an English cheese like Cheddar, and boiled sweets in jars. Also Danish butter in barrels, New Zealand butter and maybe some English, I suppose, but we always had the Danish which was excellent.


Ours also had meat paste and fish paste. Again, none of your foreign stuff.
Dolloped onto a piece of waxed paper and weighed out on one of these:


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## Hermione Golightly

I forgot biscuits in square containers with glass lids. We kids used to buy a bagful from the broken biscuits one.


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## kentix

To me, groceries are anything you'd buy in a grocery store, minus a few later items added by larger and larger grocery stores that sell stuff like lawn furniture and small kitchen appliances. But if you eat it - fresh, canned, dried, frozen, whatever - including anything eggs or dairy, then it's groceries. It also is generally stretched to include (without specifically meaning) other things you'd buy on the same trip to the same store - like toilet paper, paper towels, laundry detergent, toothpaste, shampoo, etc.


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## zaffy

Someone posted this picture in a different forum and I noticed "groceries" being used in BE


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## Wordy McWordface

zaffy said:


> Someone posted this picture in a different forum and I noticed "groceries" being used in BE


Why would you find this surprising? Nobody suggested that "groceries" wasn't part of British English. It's normal to see the word used in that context,  even though we tend to prefer alternative terms in everyday conversation.


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> Someone posted this picture in a different forum and I noticed "groceries" being used in BE


The word is used, and I quite often see it written down. Most people understand what it means, although we might not always agree on all aspects of the definition. However, it is rare in ordinary speech. Even places with small shops such as the town where I live do not have anywhere that is recognisably a "grocers". There is a newsagents, two butchers, two bakers, a greengrocers, an ironmongers, a chemists (as well as a Boots), a fishmongers, and lots of other small shops, but the role of the traditional grocers has been taken over by supermarkets and convenience stores.

 Rather than buying groceries, we "do the shopping", and the bag of groceries we bring home is "shopping".


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## zaffy

Wordy McWordface said:


> Why would you find this surprising?


I had the impression most BE speakers admitted they didn't use it.


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## Wordy McWordface

zaffy said:


> I had the impression most BE speakers admitted they didn't use it.


We don't say the word much in everyday conversation, that's true. But that doesn't mean that it's never used in any context. 

The shop sells groceries, so that's obviously what they'd write on their awning. What else would you expect them to write?


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## kentix

And in our case, fruit & veg and groceries is redundant. One is part of the other.


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## Wordy McWordface

kentix said:


> And in our case, fruit & veg and groceries is redundant. One is part of the other.


Interesting. That might go some way to explaining why AmE speakers use 'groceries' in everyday conversation more than BrE speakers do - it covers more of the food items you're likely to purchase.

For AmE speakers, a bag containing bananas, potatoes, coffee and pasta is all 'groceries', so it makes sense that this is what you'd call it.

For BrE speakers, only half those items are 'groceries', strictly speaking, so that's why we'd call it a bag of 'shopping'.


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## sound shift

Wordy McWordface said:


> For BrE speakers, only half those items are 'groceries', strictly speaking, so that's why we'd call it a bag of 'shopping'.


Well, it's so long since I used, or heard anyone else use, the word "groceries", that I couldn't put a precise definition to it without first turning to a dictionary.


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## london calling

I think that's why I misunderstand the word. We've shopped in supermarkets ever since I remember. I have no memory of a grocer's as others have described it.


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## Wordy McWordface

london calling said:


> I think that's why I misunderstand the word. We've shopped in supermarkets ever since I remember. I have no memory of a grocer's as others have described it.


That's because you're a sophisticated city girl. 

You posh Londoners got supermarkets long before the rest of us folks in the provinces. You were swanning round the aisles of Fine Fare while we were still queueing up for a quarter of dolly mixtures at Mr Grump the Grocer's.


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## tunaafi

Wordy McWordface said:


> Mr Grump the Grocer's.


Old Grumpy! I didn't know that You lived at Nether Mudswallop on the Syme Perhaps we met in our youth.


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## JulianStuart

When we moved to London in the late 50s, the first shop around the corner was a grocer's - fruit and veg and, if I recall properly, flowers (potatoes at 2d/lb).  No sweets.  They were in the shop next to that "Doll's Hospital" where they sold and repaired dolls and sold sweets like humbugs, Pez and liquorice allsorts etc.  It was a big day when we could cross the zebra crossing with its Belisha beacons to shop in this new thing : a supermarket (a Co-op, as it happens - Fine Fare and Tesco's came later, I think).  So, as shopping habits change and shop configurations evolve, with larger shops muscling out the smaller ones, the words lose/alter their meanings.


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## zaffy

MedievalElf said:


> I would just say 'shopping' not even bag of





Wordy McWordface said:


> I'd ask you to put *the shopping *away.



This Canadian is going to a huge supermarket "to pick up a few groceries". Now, what is the BE equivalent of that example?
"To pick up some food"? 
"To do some food shopping"?
"To do some shopping"?

Well, if we say "to do some shopping" in front of a huge supermarket, that could mean stuff like rubbish bags or wine glasses too and in AE it's clear he wants to buy food. So how do I make it clear in BE?

Maybe this? "I'm going to pick up something to eat".


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## Hermione Golightly

It depends on the speaker and what he's going to buy.


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## Wordy McWordface

How can you be sure that this Canadian is _not _going to pick up a pack of garbage bags along with his food purchases? "I'm going to pick up a few groceries" means "I'm going to buy a few items in this grocery store".


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## zaffy

Wordy McWordface said:


> "I'm going to pick up a few groceries" means "I'm going to buy a few items in this grocery store".


I thought it would mean some food only.


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## natkretep

If it's only food and drink, it's possible to say, 'I'm going to do a food shop.'


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## MedievalElf

This thread feels a bit cyclic. In BE we understand the word groceries, we know that groceries come from a grocery store. We can differentiate between grocery store and greengrocers.
There is some debate about what a grocery store sells (food and more), but that is because grocery stores have evolved into supermarkets. In turn supermarkets have expanded their offerings from groceries to also butchery counter, fish counter, cheese counter, cleaning products, pet food, clothing, phone contracts, insurance  and more. All of these were independent stores. Now we can get them in one place.
We don't call going to a supermarket grocery shopping, we also don't call it meat shopping, fish monger shopping, pet food shopping. We call it shopping, because it is a bit of everything.

To my understanding, groceries include non perishable food items and long shelf life items: not fruit and vegetables; not meat; not fish; not bread; but tinned goods. A grocery store is, therefore, in itself an evolution of the high street shop, as not until we had cost effective and portable storage such as tins could there be a grocery store.
To go to a supermarket and say, I am grocery shopping, is no more accurate than saying I am meat shopping or vegetable shopping. No, I am shopping. Could we adapt groceries to include all other foodstuffs and household items, yes we could, but we don't.
It makes more sense to differentiate when we go to a specialist shop. I am going clothes shopping, I am going to the book store (that one is getting harder), otherwise we are just shopping for general supplies.


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## zaffy

And could AE speakers share their feelings on that Canadian's example in#129? Would you understand he is going to buy food only or anything we might find in a grocery shop?


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## kentix

"Groceries" in that general context in the U.S. could include anything commonly found in a grocery store/supermarket. It would normally be mostly food, and could be all food (of any kind), but could also include basic non-food items like paper towels or dishwashing liquid (because it would be pointless to make a second trip to buy all those things when they are right there in the grocery store).


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> And could AE speakers share their feelings on that Canadian's example in#129? Would you understand he is going to buy food only or anything we might find in a grocery shop?


See 109 (store, not shop), 122 and especially 116.  Groceries are the things that are sold in a grocery store.  Although he's going into a gigantic megastore, if he says he's buying groceries, he's buying the kind of things that he would buy if he were in a grocery store.  That is to say, he's buying stuff like light bulbs and mosquito repellent along with his potatoes, ketchup, and hamburger rolls, because all those things are sold in grocery stores.  If he were also going to buy truck tires and a teddy bear for his child - things that are sold in superstores but not in grocery stores -- I would expect him to mention them: "I'm buying some groceries, truck tires and a teddy bear."  

Cross-posted


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## Hermione Golightly

I want to give a hearty endorsement to MedievalElf's # 134,  which sums everything up nicely as much as anybody needs to know, surely. I mean, look at the length of this thread!


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## zaffy

I see. I thought groceries were food only. So while this example makes sense as the person knows what they need to get:

"I need to pick up some groceries.", this dictionary example makes no sense to me: "Mom wanted me to get the groceries."


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## Roxxxannne

"Mom wanted me to get the groceries" makes sense to me.   She gave the speaker a list of six things and some money and sent the speaker off to the store to get milk, potatoes, lettuce, macaroni, cat food, and shampoo (see #116 above).


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## kentix

Many people buy* most of their groceries on a weekly shopping trip. "The groceries" could easily refer to that regular weekly shopping trip made with an extensive shopping list. Other trips would be like the one the man mentions here - supplemental, to pick up a few overlooked or used up items. That would be "some" groceries, not "the" groceries.

* I used present tense but it wouldn't surprise me if habits have changed over the years. Since many stores are open much longer hours than they used to be, some 24 hours, and there are more choices of where to buy groceries, and work lives are different, I don't know how many people still do a weekly, big grocery shopping trip. I don't have much contact with families with kids, but it was something our mother used to do. In my case, I often do some grocery shopping somewhere close to midnight.


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## zaffy

Roxxxannne said:


> "Mom wanted me to get the groceries" makes sense to me. She gave the speaker a list of six things and some money and sent the speaker off to the store to get milk, potatoes, lettuce, macaroni, cat food, and shampoo (see #116 above).


Wouldn't they have said "some groceries" in that context? "Mom wanted me to get some groceries"


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> Wouldn't they have said "some groceries" in that context? "Mom wanted me to get some groceries"


She could have said either depending on the context.  Here's more:

Suppose the mother calls the three kids together on Saturday morning and lists the chores and the people assigned to them: Nellie, groceries; Joy, vacuuming; Aranea, laundry.  Aranea tells Nellie she wants to get the groceries (she has a secret crush on the guy at the fish counter), so does Nellie want to trade chores? Nellie answers "Mom wanted _me_ to get the groceries; you always take too long.  Last time you got the groceries, the ice cream was all melted!"


----------

