# Mabsut [מבסוט]



## Chazz

hi,

how do you write it?

cause i checked in milon.co.il and it was not listed under 'happy' 


thanks


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## Van Gogh

Hi. 

its written "*מבסוט*" (from Arab: سعيد), and pronounced "*Mabsut*".
though its literal translation is "*שמח*", it's more commonly used at the context of "satisfied", rather than the word "happy" as in "bliss" or "joy".

common exemple:
when you ask someone in an angry tone: *satisfied?!*
in Hebrew, a nice parallel phrase could be: *!?מבסוט*

the reason you didnt find it in your dictionary, is beacuse it's one of many words that came from the Arab language, and therefore are not valid Hebrew words.

although, I think few of them did get a place in the Hebrew dictionary due to their extensive use in daily hebrew conversation, but like i said, i'm not so sure about that.

i hope it helped.


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## clevermizo

Van Gogh said:


> Hi.
> 
> its written "*מבסוט*" (from Arab: سعيد), and pronounced "*Mabsut*".



Shouldn't this be Arabic مبسوط? The word سعيد is pronounced sa'iid (סעיד).


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## Van Gogh

clevermizo said:


> Shouldn't this be Arabic مبسوط? The word سعيد is pronounced sa'iid (סעיד).



well i'm not an Arab speaker, but according to Google Translate, سعيد is "שמח".
but i (or should i say google translate ) might be wrong about that.


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## hadronic

Yes it does mean שמח, but it does not read _mabsûT._


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## hadronic

Side question : does this word sound "foreign" to Hebrew ears because of the "b" not lenified to "v", ie _mabsut _instead of _mavsut_ ?


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## פפאיה

Hi there,

Hebrew did borrow the word מבסוט from the Arabic word مبسوط. The word سعيد is another Arabic word meaning "שמח", but it is not related to مبسوط or מבסוט except for the similar meaning.
I think the word sounds foreign to Hebrew ears because it just has a foreign form - it doesn't sound like a Hebrew word, but neither does _mavsut._


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## hadronic

What is so un-Hebrew about _mavsut_ ?  The mishkal that is used (maf'ul) ? The root itself (b-s-t) ?


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## eshcar

hadronic said:


> What is so un-Hebrew about _mavsut_ ? The mishkal that is used (maf'ul) ? The root itself (b-s-t) ?


 
It's the mishkal (which isn't really a mishkal, since it doesn't exist in hebrew). The root itself also doesn't exist in hebrew, but that in itself doesn't cause the word to sound un-hebrew, only the mishkal.

Actually, this mishkal has been used to create some words in hebrew such as מחרוד and מגעול (horrible and disgusting, respectively), but these are very slangy words that rely on the unusual and foreign sounding mishkal to create a comical and exaggerated effect.


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## origumi

eshcar said:


> Actually, this mishkal has been used to create some words in hebrew such as מחרוד and מגעול (horrible and disgusting, respectively)


This clearly follows Arabic - compare to מג'נון, מלעון (crazy, cursed [not sure about the latter - probably a cognate of Hebrew לענה, a bitter poisonous plant]). As some of these borrowed words are of negative meaning, so are invented slang words in this pattern.


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## clevermizo

origumi said:


> This clearly follows Arabic - compare to מג'נון, מלעון (crazy, cursed [not sure about the latter - probably a cognate of Hebrew לענה, a bitter poisonous plant]). As some of these borrowed words are of negative meaning, so are invented slang words in this pattern.



The verb لعن (la`ana) in Arabic means "to curse" so it's direct in meaning (mal`un is something "cursed").

This "mishkal" (_wazn_) in Arabic (maf`ul) is used to derive the passive participle of a verb.


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## hadronic

origumi said:


> מג'נון, מלעון


 
Are there positive adjectives derivated from this loan-pattern ?

How is מג'נון pronounced : _mazhnun_ (like in _pleasure_) or _madzhnun_ (like in _jazz_) ?


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## origumi

More negative words:
* מסטול - drugged
* מניוק - see here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1412527

Positive:
* מברוכ - blessed
* מערוף - favor (a noun in Hebrew, I guess an adjective in Arabic)


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## hadronic

origumi said:


> Positive:
> * מברוכ - blessed


 
Is this one pronounced _mavroukh _or _mabrukh_ ( compared to _mabsut _) ?
Shouldn't it be מברוך, with kaf sofit ? Or is it to highlight the foreign origin ?


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## origumi

Mabruk. Pronounced as in Arabic. Sometimes spelled מברוק but then the Semitic root ברכ is lost.

In Hebrew slang the meaning is "bravo!" instead of the Arabic "blessed".


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## Abu Rashid

> In Hebrew slang the meaning is "bravo!" instead of the Arabic "blessed".



In Arabic mabrouk is used more in the sense of congratulations, rather than literally blessed, and I don't think it's used like bravo is used. Arabs usually say bravo for bravo in colloquial (in Egypt anyway), but in fus7a it would be a7sant.


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## hadronic

And what about the kaf not sofit ? Is it to enforce the "k" pronounciation ?


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## origumi

hadronic said:


> And what about the kaf not sofit ? Is it to enforce the "k" pronounciation ?


There's no other way to express כ דגושה at end of word. ך is always kh.

Search for an Hebrew spelling of the Egyptian president's name Mubarak in Google. All of מובר*כ*, מובאר*כ*, מובר*ק*, מובאר*ק* are there but practically no מובר*ך*, מובאר*ך*.


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## hadronic

Ok, that's like טלסקופ .


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## hadronic

eshcar said:


> It's the mishkal (which isn't really a mishkal, since it doesn't exist in hebrew).


 
Wrong : מנעול _man`ul, _מלבוש _malbush, _that I don't think Israelis consider as slangish or Arabic-like.


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## amikama

hadronic said:


> Wrong : מנעול _man`ul, _מלבוש _malbush, _that I don't think Israelis consider as slangish or Arabic-like.


But מנעול, מלבוש are nouns, not adjectives. I wouldn't say this is the same mishkal like the Arabic מבסוט, מברוק.


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## clevermizo

amikama said:


> But מנעול, מלבוש are nouns, not adjectives. I wouldn't say this is the same mishkal like the Arabic מבסוט, מברוק.



I would say they are the same. The equivalent "mishkal" in Arabic from which they are borrowed ("maf'ul") can serve for both nouns and adjectives, depending on usage and syntax (because nouns and adjectives form one category of words in Arabic). So when borrowed into Hebrew, the word just became "frozen" either as a noun or an adjective depending on intended meaning, but nevertheless its the same grammatical form (in Arabic, anyway)


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## origumi

In Hebrew (and I guess Arabic) you can put an adjective where a noun is expected, but normally not the opposite. The borrowed maf3ul words discussed in this thread are adjectives. Therefore in the Hebrew mind they are not of the same form as Hebrew maf`ul nouns.


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