# Careful, prudent



## ThomasK

We have had threads on this or a similar topic, but I would like to focus on the various ways of expressing *"(to be) careful'*, and their origin.

In Dutch I would think of
- *(wees) voorzichtig* (be careful!) - voor-zicht-ig, fore-sight-y...
- *kijk uit voor de wolf *(watch out, lit. "for" the wolf, mind the wolf)
- *wees op je hoede* (be on your guard, something like "be hooded" (hoed = hat), cover yourself) >>> *bescherm jezelf *(pro-tect yourself, be-screen yourself)

How about that word or concept (...) in your language?


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## Welsh_Sion

*Welsh:

gofal* (n.m.) care, concern, watchfulness
*Cymera ofal!* = Take care! ( Imp. 2nd pers. sing., informal)
*Cymerwch ofal!* = Take care! (Imp. 2nd pers. plur., formal)

*gofalus* (adj.) careful
*Bydd yn ofalus! * = Take care! ( Imp. 2nd pers. sing., informal) (Lit. Be thou careful!)
*Byddwch yn ofalus! * = Take care! ( Imp. 2nd pers. plur., formal) (Lit. Be ye careful!)

*Gwatsia! *= Look out! / Watch out! ( Imp. 2nd pers. sing., informal)
*Gwatsiwch! *= Look out! / Watch out! ( Imp. 2nd pers. plur., formal)
(Both these two considered slightly non-standard as they derive for English* 'watch (out)',* although we don't use the particle *'out'.)*

This leads to the pseudo-Welsh-Polish joke (supplied below in English translation):

*Q: What do you do a Polish fireman?
A: Ifan Watsialosgi!*

Where*  'Ifan'* is interpreted for (non-)Polish* 'Ivan' *(Welsh people failing to distinguish the different types of Slav - sorry) and /waʧaʹlosgi/ amounting to: 'be careful you don't burn yourself!'... but in fact could be construed as a piece of cod-Polish (to a Welsh speaker).


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## ThomasK

So the ideas/ concepts/ … of care and watching out... OK!


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## Yendred

In French:
_- *sois prudent*(*) : be careful
- *fais attention (à...)* _: lit. _pay attention (to...)_
- *prends soin (de...)* : lit. _take care (of...)

(*) *prudent *_comes from Latin _prudens _which meant _provident, wise, careful._


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## Welsh_Sion

Your idea of 'being hooded' reminded me of  the euphemism (2nd World War?) applied to members of the Armed Services, with the seemingly innocuous 'Be prepared!' (The Scout motto).

The implication being of course, that being men in exotic locations they should be … ahem … covered up and be prepared against any affliction which might come their way through excessive fraternising with local demoiselles! (Interesting then you refer to *hoods,* and such like. Is there a connection in Dutch here … obviously, French *capote* also springs to mind.)


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## Yendred

Welsh_Sion said:


> Your idea of 'being hooded' reminded me of the euphemism (2nd World War?) applied to members of the Armed Services (...) (Interesting then you refer to *hoods,* and such like. Is their a connection in Dutch here … obviously, French *capote* also springs to mind.)



Yes, in France until recently (I mean before the world suddenly ended by decree...), there was a famous catch line in awareness campaigns towards to use of condom against AIDS:
"_Sortez couvert !_" (lit. _Go out hooded!_)


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## Circunflejo

ThomasK said:


> So the ideas/ concepts/ … of care and watching out... OK!


Same in Spanish. The usual translation to Spanish is _ten cuidado_ (take care) or the variant _ándate con cuidado_. Sé prudente/precavido (be careful, be prudent/cautious) is also used. Regarding watching out, something like _vigila tus espaldas _(watch over your back) could be related with the concept be careful on some contexts.


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## ThomasK

Yendred said:


> In French:
> _- *sois prudent*(*) : be careful
> - *fais attention (à...)* _: lit. _pay attention (to...)_
> - *prends soin (de...)* : lit. _take care (of...)
> 
> (*) *prudent *_comes from Latin _prudens _which meant _provident, wise, careful._


 I am interested in "at-tent-ion": I suppose it refers to some kind watching, being directed at (Dutch: aan-dach-t, thinking of (to?))...

Mentioning covering and protection here might have been a mistake, but I hesitate: being prudent/ careful implies (preventive) protection, I suppose, but is it part of the "careful" concept?? I am wondering. Anyone who has a hunch?


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## Welsh_Sion

French *préservatif, *whilst not exactly 'preserving your equipment', does have it covered and takes care of it!

And can we fit in this idea of *'attention'* to the various meanings of '*garde-à-vous'*? 

Perhaps I am going out on unnecessary tangents. Apologies.


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## ThomasK

Oh yes, *preservatif *reminds me of prevention *especially *(by covering indeed, but I presume that _préservatif _does not include a linguistic/ etymological reference to covering)._ *Etre sur ses gardes, garde-à-vous *_*:* Yendred will tell us what the main idea is (I could imagine something like surveillance, but... !!!).


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## Penyafort

In *Catalan*, the most usual way is *anar amb compte */ənəm'komtə/ (literally, 'to go with care').

So 'Be careful!' is
_*Ves amb compte!* _(to one person, informal)​_*Vagi amb compte! *_(to one person, formal _vostè _treatment)​*Aneu amb compte! *(to more than one person, informal; or to one person, formal _vós _treatment)​*Vagin amb compte! *(to more than one person, formal _vostè _treatment)​
Or, simply,
*Compte! *(Careful!, Watch out!)​


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## ThomasK

So the main concept is "care", not "watch (out)", isn't it?


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## Penyafort

ThomasK said:


> So the main concept is "care", not "watch (out)", isn't it?



Well, yes, sort of. The thing is we have two common words for _care, _*compte *and *cura*. The second might be closer to care in English, while _compte _rather means care in the sense of attention ( _parar compte_ means to pay attention, for instance ). This is why_ anar amb compte_ means 'go with care' in the sense of _go/proceed paying attention to everything._


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## Olaszinhok

Well, as for Italian we've got different expressions as in other languages:
*sta' attento/a - state attenti/e* - be careful
also* sii prudente /siate prudenti *- be careful This expression is a bit more formal.
*fa'/fai - fate attenzione a -* pay attention to
*prendersi cura di/ badare (a)*  - take care of
Another idiom is  *occhio (a )- *take care/ pay attention to Also *occhio*! *Bada!* - watch out* occhio *means eye.


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## ThomasK

_Badare _is watching, I suppose. do you have any derivations, based on it?



Penyafort said:


> Well, yes, sort of. The thing is we have two common words for _care, _*compte *and *cura*. The second might be closer to care in English, while _compte _rather means care in the sense of attention ( _parar compte_ means to pay attention, for instance ). This is why_ anar amb compte_ means 'go with care' in the sense of _go/proceed paying attention to everything._


 I think I am beginning to see the light, but I might be mistake: commpte could be like account, and when we say "Take that into account "(prendre en compte) we mean something like : _Pay attention to tha_t... Would you agree, Penyafort?


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## ThomasK

ThomasK said:


> - *(wees) voorzichtig* (be careful!) - voor-zicht-ig, fore-sight-y...
> How about that word or concept (...) in your language?


 I had another one: *omzichtig*. Interesting variant of voorzichtig (fore-sight-y): "around-sight-y". In one case one only looks ahead, in this case every step counts, you could say: one prefers to avoid any harm whereever.


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## Olaszinhok

ThomasK said:


> _Badare _is watching, I suppose. do you have any derivations, based on it?


Not only does _badare _mean_ watch out _but also _take care of or look after_. A curious and quite popular derivation of _badare_ is *badante* - home caregiver.


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## ThomasK

This is very interesting! I tried to check on the etymology of _badare _here, but the lay-out is no good at all and my Italian is not that good either.  Maybe you could add some more details about it here. However, there seems to be a link with _abide _(Got. _beidan_) seems plausible, I think, and that is something like "to wait, to stay", and reminds me of what a waiter/waitress does: stand, wait, and watch... (We have verbeiden in  Dutch but that would be awaiting , looking forward to)...

*Badante*: great as a term. We have "*mantelzorger*", coat-carer, and I have heard and read about *wraparound care *in the US, when people at home take care of the patient... 

This might be a very interesting addition to the list!


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## Dymn

I'd say _tenir cura_ straddles both "to watch out" (_anar amb compte, vigilar_) and "to look after" (_cuidar_).



Olaszinhok said:


> Not only does _badare _mean_ watch out _but also _take care of or look after_. A curious and quite popular derivation of _badare_ is *badante* - home caregiver.


Interestingly enough _badar_ in Catalan means exactly the opposite, not paying attention. The original meaning is "to open" but it's not much used this way nowadays. Some collocations/derivations which are common: _no badar boca_ "to not say anything", _bocabadat_ "dumbfounded", _badoc _"distracted". I think it's related to _badallar _"to yawn".



Olaszinhok said:


> watch out* occhio *means eye.


Same for _ojo_ in Spanish.


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## ThomasK

Interesting note. Maybe it has to do with the concept of waiting. Some consider it very passive (waiting too long), some other consider it waiting and watching to see whether help is needed. Isn't it in Spanish that waiting is also hoping (esperar?)? We would never think of the two as related, but ...


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## Olaszinhok

According to an etymological dictionary of the Italian language _badare_ should come from the Late Latin _batare_ with the meaning of keeping your mouth open.


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## Welsh_Sion

Do we not *attend to *someone's needs in English if we are 'looking after, tending to or serving them'? The last example in the sense of 'waiting on them' as a waitress or nurse does ='soigner').

This also reminds me of Welsh dialect (rather informal) of:

*Tendia! *(2nd pers. informal)
*Tendiwch!* (2nd pers. formal)

With the idea of 'mind (out), take care (of), be careful, prends soins!' Verbal noun: *'tendio' *= to mind, to take care (of), to attend (school), to wait (at a table').

Then, there is *gwylia/gwyliwch!* (verbal noun: *'gwylio'*) which is more like 'watch (out)'


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## ThomasK

Oh yes, quite so, whijch reminds of _attention_... But I was looking for possible con-notations of"to wait"...

Is your Wesh word based on English, do you think?

@Olaszinhok: I did come across the word/root "beidan" in the example, or was I mistaken? Thanks!


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## Welsh_Sion

*tendio* is almost certainly from English (Source: GPC). But these borrowings from English (verbal noun stem + *-io* (North Wales) / *-o* (South Wales)) come into the language at different times. Welsh speaking non-linguists tend to decry them as being 'modern' coinages (e.g. *parcio* 'to park', 1939), whereas in reality they may appear at any time. Thus, the first references to '*tendio*' are actually 16th/17th century (Source: GPC). Earlier examples may make use of forms long extinct in English, such as *cwffio* ( < to cuff + -io, 'to fight') and *sbio *(to espy + -io, 'to see').


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## ThomasK

*I*nteresting note on the origin of those words!


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## Penyafort

ThomasK said:


> I think I am beginning to see the light, but I might be mistake: commpte could be like account, and when we say "Take that into account "(prendre en compte) we mean something like : _Pay attention to tha_t... Would you agree, Penyafort?



I completely agree. Spot on! 



Olaszinhok said:


> Another idiom is  *occhio (a )- *take care/ pay attention to





Dymn said:


> Same for _ojo_ in Spanish.



Recently I've heard _ull ! _in Catalan being used as in Spanish and it gets on my nerves, even when it figures in the DCVB. I didn't know it could be used like that in Italian too.



Olaszinhok said:


> According to an etymological dictionary of the Italian language _badare_ should come from the Late Latin _batare_ with the meaning of keeping your mouth open.



So that means that _badar _in Catalan is closer to Latin in its meaning than Italian is, interesting. Also, the Catalan/French/Italian for yawning (badallar/baîller/sbadigliare) comes from a diminutive of it, _bataculare_, as Dymn well suggested before.


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## ThomasK

ThomasK said:


> This is very interesting! I tried to check on the etymology of _badare _here, ...


 Anyone able to tell me what this etymological background information tells up about a possible link _badare/ beidan_?


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## marrish

ThomasK said:


> I had another one: *omzichtig*. Interesting variant of voorzichtig (fore-sight-y): "around-sight-y". In one case one only looks ahead, in this case every step counts, you could say: one prefers to avoid any harm whereever.


In Urdu one of the ways to say it is 'چوکنّے رہو _chaukanne raho_, _chau_=fourfold (as prefix in compounds from 'چار _chaar_ 'four'؛ _kann_-_e_ from کان _kaan_ 'ear' which translates literally to 'stay four-ear-y'. [=beware, stay alert].


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## ThomasK

Interesting to notice that you refer to hearing. I wonder whether it is a coincidence that, as far as I can see at least, we do not link general  perception with hearing. Even knowing (as in 'wit', etymologically speaking) refers to the root of _videre_, so I have read…

One specific question: do you have specific word for "(a) hearing (person)"? In Dutch we have "horend", which is also a verb + ing, not a word with a separate word like "deaf". But it might still be different: "deaf" and "blind" in Greek seem to have the same root and "deaf" originally refers to confusion, which I'd consider non-perception, or wrong perception...


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## marrish

I referred to hearing on purpose indeed because it hadn't been mentioned but you can easily imagine that it's been frequently essential eg. to be wary of what's being said around you [four are the directions which stands for 'around' idiomatically in Urdu.] (om-hooren  But this is just one of the idioms and the imagery of ear/hearing doesn't come up in other ones.

This leads me to the principal way used for expressing the sentiment about which you're asking in this thread, I'll quote an excerpt from a dictionary (1864) because it can give you an idea of the numerous collocations, which illustrate the  semantic fields and which I wouldn't be able to describe better. Also 'care' in the sense of 'attending the sick'' is to be found here:




> [anticipating a question about x-b-r (khabar), the noun is given from which the currently discussed word 'careful' comes from (in Urdu):
> 
> Original script |
> transliteration |
> link |
> etymology (A for Arabic, original script, transliteration (grammar and meaning in the source language), |
> feminine noun (Urdu) .
> 1) the meanings, listed beginning with the literal and basic meanings, gradually moving towards the more remote [=idiomatic] ones:
> 1) *خبر* *ḵẖabar* (p. 486) A خبر _ḵẖabar_ (inf. n. of خبر 'to know') , s.f. Knowledge, acquaintance; information, a piece of information [when you have information, you have knowledge, 'intelligence', like in the following];
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a notification; intelligence;
> [this as another meaning linking to knowledge and perception] an announcement, advice; news, tidings, a piece of news; report, rumour; fame; — a story, an account; — *notice, care, heed*:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [following a couple of different expressions which cover these meanings, like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> — _ḵẖabar basant-kī pūćhnā_, _lit_. 'To ask after the _basant_,' q.v.; to be extremely ignorant or negligent (of): — _ḵẖabar paṛnā_ (-_ko_), *To come to know*, *become aware; to come to one's senses;* —
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [then, the head word occurs in combination with the suffix _*dār* [daar; present stem/pres. part. of Persian دارن dâran 'to have', with the succession of meanings presented in a similar manner to point 1).]_
> 
> This is actually the word I had in mind:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> — _*ḵẖabar-dār*_, adj. & s.m. _[both as adjective and as masculine substantive (noun - i. e. not a participle in the source language contrary to the English definitions below:]_
> Having knowledge (of), acquainted (with); informed; taking care, careful, on one's guard, watchful, cautious; — a knower, one who is acquainted (with); — an informer, spy, scout; — *intj*. _*[interjection, as you meant it in the opening post]*_ Have a care! take care! be careful! be on (your) guard! —
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here follows an illustration of '''khabardaar's productivity in the language, i.e. different verbs it forms alongwith the numerous nuances of meaning there are in the subsequent definitions, just to help with understanding the context.
> 
> 
> 
> _ḵẖabar-dār rahnā_ (-_se_), To be or continue careful (of); to be attentive (to); to keep on (one's) guard (against): — _ḵẖabar-dār karnā_, v.t. To put on (one's) guard, to forewarn, caution, give an alarm: — _ḵẖabar-dār honā_ or _ho-jānā_ (-_se_), To take care (of), be on (one's) guard (against): — _ḵẖabar-dārī_, s.f. Informing, getting information; — taking care, carefulness; care, charge, custody, guardianship: — _ḵẖabar-dārī karnā_ (-_kī_), To take care (of), to look (after), to guard:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Below the gradual gamut of meanings illustrates the connection between "being in the know" and "having, and giving information", which leads to 'care' as in 'sick-care'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> — _ḵẖabar-dihanda_, adj. & s.m. Intelligence-giving; — one who gives information, an informer: — _ḵẖabar denā_ (-_ko_), To give information (to), to inform, apprize: — _ḵẖabar-rasāṅ_, s.m. A messenger: — _ḵẖabar rakhnā_ (-_kī_), To be informed (of), be acquainted (with); to bear in mind; to be on the look out or alert: — _ḵẖabar karnā_ (-_ko_), To acquaint, inform, apprize, advise; to report (to): — _ḵẖabar-gīr_, s.m. An informer, a spy; — a guardian, protector, patron; a manager: — _ḵẖabar-gīrāṅ_, adj. & s.m. Taking care; — one who takes care (of), or looks (after), &c. ( = _ḵẖabar-gīr_): — _ḵẖabar-gīrī_, s.f. Taking care (of), looking (after), managing; taking thought (of); management, protection, care, aid, support; — informing; spying: — _ḵẖabar-gīrī karnā_ (-_kī_), To look (after), to manage, conduct; to protect, care (for), to aid, support: — _ḵẖabar lagānā_ (-_kī_), To seek for a trace (of), to search (for stolen property, &c.): — _ḵẖabar lenā_ (-_kī_), To look (after), take care (of), to support; to watch (over), to guard; to take notice (of); to inquire (into), to ask (about); to seek; to look (one) up;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [irrelevant] — to be after (one), to serve (one) out, settle accounts (with): ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> — _ḵẖabar honā_ (-_kī_), To have knowledge (of), to be informed (of), be apprized (of), &c.: — _be-ḵẖabar_, adj. Unacquainted (with, -_se_); ignorant, uninformed; regardless, careless, inattentive; insensible; senseless, unconscious; stupefied; intoxicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finally it's the re-statement of those semantic links in juxtaposition.
> 
> (Re antonym to deaf: yes, in Urdu there are several specific words for "(a) hearing (person)" - in different senses, too, due to its rich vocabulary (you can draw from Arabic verbal nouns, Persian participles, Indic roots...), but we'd say 'the one who can hear"; "able-hearing"; 'keen-ear', 'whole/healthy of hearing', 'of open ears
Click to expand...


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## Circunflejo

Dymn said:


> Same for _ojo_ in Spanish.


In Spanish we have an idiom with ojo: estar ojo avizor (to be (with a) watchfull eye).


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## ThomasK

Well, here we have another root: _wary_, which we also know in Dutch _waarnemen_, perceive.  _Wary _is more like suspicious, I think, though... 

khabar is knowing then. Is there an underlying root that you could for example link with other kh-b-r words? (I hav not checked on the language group Urdu belongs to; not the same as Arabic, or is it?  --- I would not be able to see an English synonym or near-synonym of 'careful', .., based on the word "know" or a similar root by that meaning...

Just BTW: Mods generally do not like lengthy quotes; it might be best to focus on the main things only. But thanks a lot...


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## marrish

I've edited the previous quotation so that it becomes clear what exactly was my intention in quoting such a long piece. There's an answer to this inside.
Another reason for my post is that the word being Arabic is used in many Non-Semitic languages, and Urdu is no exception. A big part of the lexicon is Abic (language itself being Indo-European).


ThomasK said:


> Well, here we have another root: _wary_, which we also know in Dutch _waarnemen_, perceive. _Wary _is more like suspicious, I think, though...


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## ThomasK

Thanks for this information:  "being in the know" and "having, and giving information", which leads to 'care' as in 'sick-care'. Can you find a parallel in English or ...?


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## marrish

Arabic, Persian, Hindi, seem plausible candidates, just off the top of my head.


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## ThomasK

There is some misunderstanding, I am afraid. When referring to your information (being in the know > having/giving information > (sick-)care) I wanted to know whether you know any concrete parallel examples of semantic evolution, like the one you refer to... Thanks in advance!


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