# Weight and culture



## BAS24

In the United States there is an obesity problem. This being said, the subject of weight is a very touchy one.  We have to side-step any word that may imply someone is overweight and to say someone "is fat" is an insult, even though may of us are.  In your country what is considered overweight? Is being overweight or "chunky" viewed negatively?  Can you speak frankly with people about their weight or is a taboo subject?


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## sokol

In Austria the topic of weight problems most likely is not so touchy than in the States, but you'd have to be careful here, too.
You only comment on other person's weight if you know them good enough to be sure they won't be offended - or else, you comment on the weigth if you want to offend.

Weight problems also are increasing here in Austria (and I think in the whole of Europe), but in both directions - both obesity and anorexia increasingly are becoming a problem.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that the weight of other people is strictly taboo - it just depends on how you are touching the subject.
To give an example:
A colleague of mine recently has lost several kilos but still is overweight.
If I would ask her friendly "why, you've lost so much weight, haven't you?" she certainly would take it as a compliment.
But if I would say "why, you've lost so much weight, surely you'll loose another ten kilos", then I am absolutely sure she would feel offended.


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## Etcetera

In Russia, this topic doesn't seem to be as touchy as in the US, but still, you have to be very careful about it.

I heard twice or thrice phrases like "You really should lose some weight!" in transport, and, interestingly enough, the sentence was normally uttered by a somewhat stoutish woman. 

I can't say that Russians are really obsessed with this topic, although it's quite popular in different TV shows and women magazines. But the vast majority of my friends obviously have more interesting things to discuss.


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## Topsie

Here in the south of France most people are (very) thin and beautiful! The few who are overweight have difficulty finding nice clothes etc. and are generally viewed negatively. A recent survey on discrimination in the workplace showed that employers considered overweight candidates as being lazy, incompetent and lacking in personal hygiene!
I'm a size 16 (UK, that is) and I don't feel particularly _fat _when I'min Britain or America, (I like to think I'm voluptuous!), but over here I'm what they consider politely as "_ronde_", certainly the plumpest in the gym where I go! Most of my (skinny) women friends are heavy smokers and always dieting! For some unfathomable reason French men tend not to put on weight - even the beer-drinking ones!


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## tvdxer

Yes, weight is indeed a very touchy social issue in the U.S.  And people ARE getting fatter and more obese...obesity is a severe problem here.  But that's not to say that all or even most Americans are really fat, or that there aren't skinny Americans.  Few of the students I attend university with could be considered "fat" or even "chubby", but I can't say the same of those I see in their 30's, 40's, and 50's.

Personally, I think what's considered an "attractive" weight for the opposite sex is becoming more lenient...while the razor-thin models of the 90's may not have perfectly represented the male ideal of feminine beauty of those years, I think men are more attracted to "larger" (but not very obese) or "voluptuous" women then they were in the past.  This may be in part (just a thought of mine) due to the influence of "African-American" culture on overall American popular culture.   I don't know if it works the same way reversed (women and men)...but then again, men seem to put more stock in a woman's physical appearance than a women in a male's look.


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## Chaska Ñawi

Moderator Note:  We need to address the original questions, folks.  Please focus on these, or this thread will be very short-lived.

Thank you for your understanding.



BAS24 said:


> In the United States there is an obesity problem. This being said, the subject of weight is a very touchy one.  We have to side-step any word that may imply someone is overweight and to say someone "is fat" is an insult, even though may of us are.  In your country what is considered overweight? Is being overweight or "chunky" viewed negatively?  Can you speak frankly with people about their weight or is a taboo subject?


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## alexacohen

Hi,

I don't know exactly what is considered overweight here. Having a big round slopping belly, most probably.

But the subject is not taboo. If you are overweight your friends will show concern for your health but not for your aspect. Very much the same way friends will show their concern when you're way too thin. 

People discuss freely their weight problems (diest and so on) with friends and workmates.

Of course it depends on who is talking and who is listening. No one would admit a "you're fat" from a stranger. But there is nothing wrong with saying to a friend "you will be better if you lose a couple of kilos".


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## Nanon

Hi All,

Pretty much the same in France as described for Spain by Alexacohen.

However, while it is admitted to talk about weight as a problem (talking about diets with colleagues, losing a few kilos and so on), I have a general feeling that it is less well admitted to say openly that weight is _not _a problem. It is not quite OK to say that you don't care about your silhouette, dieting, losing weight... unless you are really thin. An overweight person doing nothing about his/her weight, saying that he/she does not want to change is seen as either irresponsible or making a rather strong statement. Does it feel the same in your respective countries?


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## mirx

In México is a very negative topic and although not taboo it is never discussed openly in front of fat people.

I for one woudln't be able to politely and indirectly sugguest to my girlfrind that she lost some weight.

And Mexican people too are becoming fatter and fatter, not that we ever were those southern French described above.

Even referring to someone fat as "fat" is regarded as impolite, I wonder when all those negative connotations were given to the word, intead we are encouraged to say "people of size" or "big people", I also wonder when these new words will become taboo and what other new word we will have to adopt to try to get rid of the prejudices implied in a word that is not even insulting to start with.


Regards.


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## lcfatima

Because of the US monopoly on global pop-culture, US ideals of thin=beauty have pretty much permeated the world...For example, Bollywood female film stars of the 80s and into the 90s and before were a lot thicker, today they are stick thin. I know of anorexics in Pakistan...they would be from the upper-stratum of society as among the people of lower classes who live with less globalized media (local regional language TV channels, etc.) still have the healthy husky ideal of beauty. It is okay to say "You're looking fat lately, what happened to you?" and this wouldn't be as overtly rude as it is in the US. 

I reside in the UAE and obesity and associated illnesses is a MAJOR problem especially among the indigenous Emirati population---it is all across the GCC...there is also a lot of fad dieting and all just like in the US, and just about every girlfriend of mine diets...but on TV you still see "healthy" women in music videos and TV serials from the UAE and other GCC countries. So the traditional ideal of the husky beauty is still around, but I think in real life thin is preferred. I know people openly comment on how fat they and other people are, it is somehow not as sensitive as it is in the US. I think the ideal version of female beauty is slim as in not overweight, but has a rounder figure, as in fuller bust and hips and a rounder face, than the US stick-figure Hollywood icons.


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## sokol

Nanon said:


> An overweight person doing nothing about his/her weight, saying that he/she does not want to change is seen as either irresponsible or making a rather strong statement. Does it feel the same in your respective countries?



About the same here in Austria: it is rather *unlikely *for an overweight person do claim he or she wouldn't like to loose some weight because he or she feels comfortable the way it is.
*But *it exists.

Some overweight people with the self-esteem and self-confidence necessary to do so indeed *say *that they feel comfortable the way they are.
This point of view is *not *seen as an extreme point of view at all if the person concerned is only a little overweight (so basically, if a person is not so overweight that you could call her or him suffering from obesity, which starts with a body mass index of around about 30); it *is *seen as extreme if you are overweight to a degree that health damages are to be expected.

And having said this, there's a difference between men and women: most people*) don't see overweight men in such a negative way as they see overweight women.
*) Both men and women, of course, but it seems that women are even more rigorous when it comes to judging other women (or themselves, for that matter) as many men are.

There's actually a lot of discussing of weight problems going on in Austria, and there's nothing 'bad' about it really, but only if you use the proper phrasings in proper situations.
And then weight discussions between women (if no men are listening)**) are much more common than between men and women (women may comment in a humorous way on the weight of a men without much danger of offending, whereas men always should hide some compliment in any statement concerning women's weight), and the latter are even more common than weight discussions between men (which, if they occur, mostly are kept on a humorous level).
**) You may ask, how does *he *know. Well, guess.


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## Musical Chairs

In Japan, being fat is bad but not totally negative or taboo like in the US. I guess it's not really an issue over there because almost nobody is fat. In the country(side) where I'm from, I've never heard of anyone being on a diet for weight reasons, and I've never heard of anyone being vegetarian. Sometimes people go for a walk to get fresh air but nobody "works out" (for example, you won't see anybody jogging in the morning on your way to work).

I think what would be considered "normal" in the US would be considered a little fat in Japan (I am a size XS/S in the US but a M over there). In sixth grade, everyone in our class got weighed and the fattest person in our class was 48 kg (106 lbs) and my weight was the median (38kg/84 lbs). But people there are also shorter.


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## Anathulia

The concept of weight is greatly varied form country to country. In Trinidad and Tobago, and in the Caribbean generally, stick thin people are, for lack of a better expression, frowned upon. I guess it's because one associates the Caribbean with curvy people, so in our eyes a person who weighs about 160 lbs is not fat or obese, but shapely. The line between weight and beauty is something that is represented by culture. If you look at other cultures you would see that their concept of obesity is different to yours. Even if you assess the weight situation with health in mind, you will get many variations as to what is a healthy body weight.


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## clairanne

Hi

In U we are usually fairly open about weight- For example my friend is quite likely to tell me I am fat and I would agree with her, no offence taken, although I would not say this to a very obese friend who has medical problems. 

When I was a child (in the 1950's)  my parents and grandparents considered plump to be healthy.  I think this was because when they were young there was a shortage of food due to the two Wars and they wanted to be seen to be doing the best for their children by feeding them well.  I have seen documentaries which suggest that some of the poorer nations value plumpness for similar reasons.


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## Pedro y La Torre

I'd say weight is a pretty complex issue here. I would never say to anyone, even friends, "you're fat". However, if someone is (gradually) putting on a few pounds, there's a good chance something will be mentioned.


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## e.ma

Musical Chairs said:


> In Japan, being fat is bad but not totally negative or taboo like in the US. I guess it's not really an issue over there because almost nobody is fat. In the country(side) where I'm from, I've never heard of anyone being on a diet for weight reasons, and I've never heard of anyone being vegetarian. Sometimes people go for a walk to get fresh air but nobody "works out" (for example, you won't see anybody jogging in the morning on your way to work).
> 
> I think what would be considered "normal" in the US would be considered a little fat in Japan (I am a size XS/S in the US but a M over there). In sixth grade, everyone in our class got weighed and the fattest person in our class was 48 kg (106 lbs) and my weight was the median (38kg/84 lbs). But people there are also shorter.



I think the reason why there are so few overweighted Japanese is because weight issue is too important to their culture to get fat. Japanese girls eat so little and are so thin that sometimes look unhealthy to me. The girl reading the news is so thin that if she were Spanish she would probably be under psycological treatment. The adds for pregnant women's clothes show them on non-pregnant women, because pregnants are seen as "fat". There's a huge social pressure about it, and fat people are strongly looked at.

I would never be able to tell the fattest person in my surrounding's weight; and not even my own. I've never cared.

Also: beauty scales lay so much on the economic side: in a wealthy society, the difficult thing is to stand in shape; but for the hungry, the desirable thing is to put some weight on.


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## sokol

clairanne said:


> In U we are usually fairly open about weight- For example my friend is quite likely to tell me I am fat and I would agree with her, no offence taken (...)


 I think in Austria this too would be possible, but only between two female friends, and also between two male friends (if it is clear that no offence is taken) - but not between a man and a woman except if they really are _very_ close. Else surely this would be seen as offending, especially if you state this in public, when other people can hear you.

There's also a difference in age - older people are not quite as sensible as the younger generation and especially teenagers.



clairanne said:


> When I was a child (in the 1950's)  my parents and grandparents considered plump to be healthy.


My parents (both of them now over 70 years old) still think that being plump means you're healthy, and even that a man should have some flesh on his bones (that is, quite a lot of it ;-) while a women should have her flesh 'well distributed', if you know what I mean.

This thinking however is limited to the generation 50+ I'd say, or even 60+.


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## Topsie

sokol said:


> There's also a difference in age - older people are not quite as sensible as the younger generation and especially teenagers.


I think you mean _sensitive_!
I agree! A plump teenager has real difficulty in accepting a well-meaning remark about his/her weight - this is often perceived as outright criticism!


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## sokol

Thanks, Topsie, unfortunately I can't edit my post any more - it's far from me to state that older people weren't sensible ...


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## Musical Chairs

e.ma said:


> I think the reason why there are so few overweighted Japanese is because weight issue is too important to their culture to get fat. Japanese girls eat so little and are so thin that sometimes look unhealthy to me.



What do you mean by that? Most people I know eat regular amounts...

I mean I eat a lot and I'm still thin, and I don't even work out on a regular basis. Maybe it has more to do with their genes and exactly what they eat more than how much they eat.


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## Etcetera

sokol said:


> My parents (both of them now over 70 years old) still think that being plump means you're healthy, and even that a man should have some flesh on his bones (that is, quite a lot of it ;-) while a women should have her flesh 'well distributed', if you know what I mean.
> 
> This thinking however is limited to the generation 50+ I'd say, or even 60+.


It's pretty understandable - they had to live during one of the most dramatic periods of history. 

I've heard a discussion concerning the Orthodox Lent (and the Orthodox rules are much more strict than the Catholic ones). One of the participants of the discussion said that for elderly people the idea of not eating meat at all (even for some five weeks or so) would seem strange and even horrible, because for them eating meat is something of sign of well-doing. Similarly, if a person is "plump", it signifies of their welfare. Something like that.


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## BAS24

Musical Chairs said:


> What do you mean by that? Most people I know eat regular amounts...
> 
> I mean I eat a lot and I'm still thin, and I don't even work out on a regular basis. Maybe it has more to do with their genes and exactly what they eat more than how much they eat.




I guess this could also be part of the question. e.ma refers to portion size as "so little" while Musical Chairs talks about "regular amounts". Could it be each country has a different idea about what the portion size should be?  I know where I live in the S.E. United States, a lot people are not happy with a restaurant if they can finish the plate. Many times they are not happy unless they throw away food.  Also, the all-you-can-eat buffets are popular.  Obviously in my area of the U.S. the customary "regular amount" is quite large and adds to the obesity problem.


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## e.ma

Musical Chairs: what I am talking about has nothing to do with genes, it's all about culture. I guess a genetically Japanese person, if, let's say, adopted by an American family, would have more or less the same chances to get fat as any genetically non-Japanese person under the same circumstance.

About the amounts eaten by Japanese girls, I'd say "regular, but little". But of course BAS24 is right and it all depends on what you call a minimum.


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## semisa

I would say in China, weigh is a rather sensitive topic.
People of my age worship thinness but have little knowledge of eating disorder. I see a lot of people who are already thin enough in any cultrual context are desperately dieting.


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## semisa

e.ma said:


> Musical Chairs:
> 
> About the amounts eaten by Japanese girls, I'd say "regular, but little". But of course BAS24 is right and it all depends on what you call a minimum.


 
I think that's exactly the point here. People of different cultrual background have differnt matality about thinness, the amount of food they should eat. For example, the croissant in US is twice as big as in France.


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## Musical Chairs

Yea, I'd totally agree that a Japanese person who got adopted into an American family would be more likely to get fat. What Japanese people eat is TOTALLY different, and a lot of the time something that is eaten during a regular meal would be considered dessert over there. I think since I spent most of my early years eating the Japanese way, I don't get fat even if I eat big portions here (objectively big, as in five plates worth of food at a buffet, or an entire large pizza by myself). I see the same thing with Japanese international students at my school and none I've seen have gotten fat.

In Japan, portions are definitely a lot smaller and people don't get boxes to take the rest of their food home. Though I think it's great you can do that in the US with so much food because it would be worse to throw it away (in Japan, we think it's a real waste to throw away food, especially anything that hasn't even been touched). I'm totally crushed when I accidentally get something I didn't order at a restaurant and they just throw it away when I say it wasn't the right food. I mean sooo crushed.


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## e.ma

I agree on everything you've said, but I'd like to state Japanese food can also make people fat. If you don't believe me, try getting to Japan _as a guest_. Then you'd be fed the most delicious things, and in _huge_ amounts. 

By the way: as far as I know, Northern Europeans consider Spanish food to be very healthy and non-fattening, more or less the same as what Americans think of Japanese food; so anycase, don't expect Spaniards to lose weight if eating Japanese!


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## e.ma

Maybe because we Spanish people have been used to having not a lot of flesh, we tend to hold on to it.
I've posted a new thread to translate a very Spanish saying concerning that feeling ("no me sobra un gramo de grasa" -result: "I don't have any *extra* fat").


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## Grop

Musical Chairs said:


> In Japan [...] nobody "works out" (for example, you won't see anybody jogging in the morning on your way to work).



Hi, you seem to suggest that people do sport only in order to work off their extra weight. Although we often speak of losing weight for aesthetic reasons (like spring panic: you want to lose weigth before people may see you in a swimming suit ^^), I think many (at least in my place) do it in order to be fit: if you don't have a good physical condition there are lots of non-professional things you can't do. You don't want to be excluded when your friends plan a difficult hike, or when your colleagues build a team for a sport competition.

BTW, it appears you are 20 and think you may eat much and not get fat; I hope this is true. However in my place we tend to think than even if you are thin at 20 (in spite of eating much and doing little sport), you must start watching what you eat and work off or you will be overweight at 30.

I think most people (who are at least, say, 25) who are thin in France watch what they eat, or do much sport, or both. To foreigners they may seem not to, but I suspect it is an illusion: especially since you eat better - and fatter - things on some occasions, and that's typically when you eat with friends.


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## Musical Chairs

That's not the way I meant it to sound. Most people do it (work out) to stay healthy and/or lose weight. The older someone is, the less likely they are to play sports competitively. I think I said in Japan, people take walks around the neighborhood which is definitely not for losing weight (and fits more in the "staying fit" category). They engage in a golf-like sport/game to keep active too.

I don't really know, because there are other people in my family (grandparents) who eat a lot and they aren't fat either. I guess it depends but I've always thought it's strange how people in the US are all health-conscious, taking vitamins, and dieting a lot, yet there is still a huge obesity problem. It even seems to me that the people I know who eat the least are kind of chubby, and the people I know who eat the most are skinny. Does it seem that way in other countries?


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## alexacohen

Obesity may be hereditary; morbid obesity (I'm not sure if the word is correct in English) is an illness, and may be passed on to the next generation. 

It can also be a cultural problem: there is no obesity problem, as far as I recall, in Ethiopia. There is nothing to eat. 

And, finally, bodies change with years. What was easy to do at twenty, becomes more difficult as you grow old. No woman who has had a baby will ever see her body return to what it was before she was pregnant, for instance. 

But people in Spain don't do sports to lose weight. Diets are for losing weight, sport is to keep fit.


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## BAS24

Musical Chairs says "people walk around the neighborhood" but not really as a form of excercise.  This makes me wonder whether or not public transportation plays a role in our weight.  My understanding is that having a personal automobile in Europe and Japan is unneccesary. In the U.S. public transportation is much more limited and, in many places, owning your own vehicle is essential. This results in less walking, biking, etc. as _a form of transportation_.  My suspicion is that the U.S. has a culture of "drive most everywhere" and walking as a means of "transportation" is almost unheard of. Surely this cultural difference between the U.S. and other places affects the obesity rate.


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## e.ma

I agree with BAS24: the less natural your culture is, the more likely you are to get fat.
I agree even more with Musical Chairs: it looks like only dieting people's getting fat!
I agree the most with alexacohen's Ethiopia's point, and also about body changing along the years; but I'd like to say that in Asia the link between old and fat is not that immediate: there's a lot of thin or skinny elder people. So that may also be a cultural more than biological or genetical thing.


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