# Plural of الهرم al-haram



## iheartportugues

I'm looking for the plural of الهرم (al-haram), but I've seen two varying plurals:

الاهرام Al-ahraam 

and

الأهرامات Al-ahraamaat

Which one is the correct one? Are they used in different cases? If they are synonyms, which one is used more often?

Thanks!


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## akhooha

To my knowledge, they are both correct and absolutely interchangeable.
I have the impression that   الاهرام Al-ahraam may be used more frequently than الأهرامات Al-ahraamaat.


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## iheartportugues

Thanks for the reply. Can a native speaker confirm this for us?


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## Arabic Guru

akhooha said:


> To my knowledge, they are both correct and absolutely interchangeable.



It's better to use Al-Ahraam الأهرام ( haram: ahraam هَرَم - أهْرام : broken plural)
qalam: aglaam قلم - أقلام
3alam - 3alaam علم - أعلام

They often use Al-Ahraamaat, الأهرامات as plural of plural جمع الجمع of Al-Ahraam, but I think this is a mistake, why? Because we have just 3 ahraam in Egypt, why to use more and more "plural" of ahraam?!

Ref:
1-
2-


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## jacksparro3014

I totally agree with (akhooha).
they are both correct, and Al-ahraam is used more frequently.


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## Arabic Guru

jacksparro3014 said:


> I totally agree with (akhooha).
> they are both correct, and Al-ahraam is used more frequently.




From this link:


> كما سمعنا في بعض الإذاعات كلمة "الأهرامات" مقصودا بها جمع "هرم" ومعلوم أن جمع "هرم" هو "الأهرام" قد يقول بعضهم على سبيل التعقيب
> إن العرب جمعت كلمة "رجل" على "رجال" وجمعت لفظ "رجال" على "رجالات" ولكن نرد على هذا الكلام بقولنا لقد صحت كلمة "رجالات" لأنها سمعت من العرب
> ولا تصح كلمة "الأهرامات" لأنها لم تسمع منهم بل ولم تسمع هذه الكلمة قبل اليوم لا من العرب ولا من غيرهم


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## إسكندراني

Arabic Guru said:


> They often use Al-Ahraamaat, الأهرامات as plural of plural جمع الجمع of Al-Ahraam, but I think this is a mistake, why? Because we have just 3 ahraam in Egypt, why to use more and more "plural" of ahraam?!


There are dozens; it's just the three biggest ones at Giza are particularly famous.


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## Arabic Guru

إسكندراني said:


> There are dozens; it's just the three biggest ones at Giza are particularly famous.



This is not our subject.


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## إسكندراني

It's relevant because it's a valid explanation why Egyptians call them أهرامات.


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## iheartportugues

I asked as in my Arabic course, the plural al-ahraam is given, however it seems in Egypt, it is more common to call them al-ahraamaat. For example, the Wikipedia article on the Egyptian Pyramids (not the most reliable source, I know) gives it as أهرامات مصر
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/أهرامات_مصر


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## Arabic Guru

iheartportugues said:


> I asked as in my Arabic course, the plural al-ahraam is given



Hi
If want a third proof, here it is.

Good luck


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## akhooha

Arabic Guru said:


> Hi
> If want a third proof, here it is....



An interesting article.  Thank you. But, just for the sake of discussion, there are two ways to look at a language: _prescriptively_ (as you do) or _descriptively_.
Language is never static; it is always changing. Grammatical rules, vocabulary, pronunciation, word formation, etc are in a constant state of flux.
Just because a particular form of a word is not found in classical sources or does not follow "regular" morphemic changes does not mean that that word is not currently in use.  You may "_prescribe_" that "أهرام" is the only acceptable plural of "هرم", but if you were to "_describe_" current usage, you would have to admit that "أهرامات" is _also_ being used, and that evidence of its usage is abundant. You won't find such forms as هرمات or هرمون or أهاريم because those forms are not used. أهرامات, however, is clearly in use.
To sum up, you can look at language in two ways:
(1) صحيح أو غير صحيح (prescriptively)
(2) مستخدم أو غير مستخدم (descriptively)


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## Arabic Guru

Hi Akhooha

There was a lot of speech of this subject behind the closed doors please check your PM box for further explanation.
If websites and media are using that word أهرامات instead of أهرام nobody will sue them for their usage even if they are using it in a wrong manner. 
Nowadays, if you are speaking Arabic Fus7aa in the street they will laugh and calling you "nut".
قال أحد أعضاء الكونغرس يوماً: إنّنا نصنع القوانين لمعاقبة المجرمين، الذين يسرقون ويقتلون، فلماذا لا نضع القوانين لمعاقبة الذين يفسدون اللغة؟


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## akhooha

Arabic Guru said:


> قال أحد أعضاء الكونغرس يوماً: إنّنا نصنع القوانين لمعاقبة المجرمين، الذين يسرقون ويقتلون، فلماذا لا نضع القوانين لمعاقبة الذين يفسدون اللغة؟


المسألة كلها تعتمد على وجهة نظرك.  إذا كنت منتميا لمذهب الفرضية المعيارية فسوف تعتبر  استخدام "أهرامات" دليلا لفساد اللغة.  وإذا كنت منتميا لمذهب الوصفية فسوف تعتبر استخدام "أهرامات" دليلا لتغيير اللغة وتطورها. على أي حال، التغيير من طبيعة اللغة٠
​


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## إسكندراني

Akhooha, it is indeed a good idea to observe how language is used, but using Wikipedia to do this is often misleading. 
ويكيبيديا ليست مصدر
It clearly says that there. It's more of an informal collection of articles than a source in itself.


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## akhooha

Iskandarani, I never proposed Wikipedia as a source (I believe that was "iheartportugues" in post #10).
Not that I think it's necessary to prove that the plural form of أهرامات is actually used (native Arabic speaker jacksparro3014 seemed to have no issues with that proposition), but it took just a few moments to find its use in some published book titles:
أهرامات الجيزة: الأسطورة والواقع
http://books.google.com/books?id=YD...w&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=أهرامات&f=false

أهرامات السراب
http://books.google.com/books?id=cr...a=X&ei=Y6ooU-DhNqbmyQHW5YCoDw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

هضبة أهرامات الوزير: اغتيال الآثار-- والتطوير
http://books.google.com/books?id=6w...a=X&ei=Y6ooU-DhNqbmyQHW5YCoDw&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAw

فراعنة بلا أهرامات
http://books.google.com/books?id=Mo...a=X&ei=Y6ooU-DhNqbmyQHW5YCoDw&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ

الأهرامات المصرية
http://www.worldcat.org/title/ahramat-al-misriyah/oclc/29307147&referer=brief_results

أهرامات مصر : هضبة الجيزة : أبو الهول
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4770573529&referer=brief_results

Some folks just seem to have an issue with أهرامات because it may not have been in use two or three hundred years ago and it doesn't follow an established وزن, but there's no denying that its around now and it's in use. There's nothing "right" or "wrong" about it --- it's just a part of observable contemporary Arabic.


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## إسكندراني

It is wrong grammatically, no doubt about that. It just happens to be in circulation unofficially. Grammar rules still apply


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## Arabic_Police_999

iheartportugues said:


> I'm looking for the plural of الهرم (al-haram), but I've seen two varying plurals:
> 
> الاهرام Al-ahraam
> 
> and
> 
> الأهرامات Al-ahraamaat
> 
> Which one is the correct one? Are they used in different cases? If they are synonyms, which one is used more often?
> 
> Thanks!


*They are not the same*
الأهرام is جمع قلةthe number of pyramid is from 3 or 9
while أهرامات it could be the same or more


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