# All Slavic languages: 'sugar daddy' and 'toy-boy'



## Brian P

У нас, богатый старше мужчина у которого молодая любовница называется ‘sugar daddy’. И молодой мужчина у которого богатая старше любовница называется ‘toy-boy’ или ‘boy-toy’. Есть соответственные русские названия? Может быть ‘сахарный папа’ и ‘мальчик-игрушка’?

Говорящие других славянских языков, как их зовут на вашем языке?


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## Crescent

Hello, Brian. 

Надеюсь, Вы не будете возражать, если я немножечко поправлю Ваш русский? 



Brian P said:


> У нас, богаты*е*  мужчин*ы* *пожилого возраста*,  у котор*ых* *есть *молодая любовница*, *называются ‘sugar daddy’. *А* молод*ые *мужчин*ы *у котор*ых *богатая старше любовница (которая их старше) называ*ю*тся ‘toy-boy’ или ‘boy-toy’. Есть соответственные русские названия? Может быть ‘сахарный папа’ и ‘мальчик-игрушка’?
> 
> Говорящие других славянских языков, как их зовут на вашем языке?


 Мммдаа, надо сказать: вопрос для Знатоков.  
Мне очень понравились Ваши попытки по-поводу "сахарный-папа" и "мальчик-игрушка" но насколько я знаю, наш язык, ещё не приобрел названия такого рода. (и слава богу! ) 
Я не очень разбираюсь во всех этих делах, если четсно, но по-моему, у нас просто говорят: _У него молодая любовница._ Или - _её любовник, ей в отцы (или  в дедушки, но это уже просто..... ) годится.

_Я надеюсь нам ещё кто ни будь сможет помочь разобраться.. А то мне тоже интересно стало! _
_


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## Hotmale

Hi Brian

In Polish "sugar daddy" would be translated as "żigolak" or "męska dziwka". 
I don't think there is a name for a woman (maybe "sponsorka", but without context it wouldn't be understood this way). 

Cheers,
Hotmale


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## Maroseika

Спонсор in Russian, too, but without due context it is not clear.
Another one, also understood correctly only in the context - папик
For a younger man - the only one I know is альфонс, but it's rather archaic.


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> Спонсор in Russian, too, but without due context it is not clear.
> Another one, also understood correctly only in the context - папик
> For a younger man - the only one I know is альфонс, but it's rather archaic.



I had no idea we used any of these words to mean that..
Maroseika, I always thought that an _альфонс_ was a gentleman who found himself rich, old women and then pretended to be in love with them, whilst his initial target was to get as much money as he could out of them. 
Has this word lost its meaning then, in modern Russian, or has it become so that nearly every young man who develops a relationship with a rich woman who is by far older than him, turns out to be an _альфонс_?


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> I had no idea we used any of these words to mean that..
> Maroseika, I always thought that an _альфонс_ was a gentleman who found himself rich, old women and then pretended to be in love with them, whilst his initial target was to get as much money as he could out of them.
> Has this word lost its meaning then, in modern Russian, or has it become so that nearly every young man who develops a relationship with a rich woman who is by far older than him, turns out to be an _альфонс_?


Actually I don't see any difference between a gentleman from the past and the young man from our days you have mentioned: both are looking for an older woman to make use of her money. 
Actually, according to the glossaries, alfons is a lover, living on the account of the woman, and nothing more.
Therefore, age doesn't matter - nor of him, nor of her.
Of course, we mean here that young man never can really love a woman much older than himself.


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## Seana

Hotmale said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> In Polish "sugar daddy" would be translated as "żigolak" or "męska dziwka".
> I don't think there is a name for a woman (maybe "sponsorka", but without context it wouldn't be understood this way).


 
I apologise that I am cutting in here. After all Brian wants to know these terms in Russian but I must respectfully disagree with Hotmale because in my opinion *sugar daddy* in Polish means *podtatusiały lowelas* it is wealthy older lady-killer who many times gives a young woman expensive gifts in return for friendship or intimacy. 
But just* toyboy* gigolo means *żigolak*- is a man who is financially supported by a wealthy, usually older woman - *utrzymanek* in Polish - kept man.


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> Actually I don't see any difference between a gentleman from the past and the young man from our days you have mentioned: both are looking for an older woman to make use of her money.
> Actually, according to the glossaries, alfons is a lover, living on the account of the woman, and nothing more.
> Therefore, age doesn't matter - nor of him, nor of her.
> Of course, we mean here that young man never can really love a woman much older than himself.



I see what you mean now, Maroseika! Thank you for the explanation. But the things is - I don't _think _that ''toy-boys'' in English have something to do with young men who steal money from wealthy women by becoming their lovers. By all means, please do correct me if you consider me wrong, but in my mind, a _toy-boy_ is a general term used for men whose female parteners are much older than them, but it doesn't necesseraly make them an _альфонс_. 
I mean, I sometimes use the expression ''toy-boy'' jokingly and with good humour, if I am talking to my girl friends about a guy I date/like who is younger than me (which is rare since I usually go for older guys ) , but it doesn't mean that he has tried to take advantage of my financial status...


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## Kriviq

Brian P said:


> У нас, богатый старше мужчина у которого молодая любовница называется ‘sugar daddy’.
> 
> Говорящие других славянских языков, как их зовут на вашем языке?



Hi, Brian P
In Bulgarian: sugar daddy - чичко-паричко.
No word for "toy-boy" that I can figure out.


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> I see what you mean now, Maroseika! Thank you for the explanation. But the things is - I don't _think _that ''toy-boys'' in English have something to do with young men who steal money from wealthy women by becoming their lovers. By all means, please do correct me if you consider me wrong, but in my mind, a _toy-boy_ is a general term used for men whose female parteners are much older than them, but it doesn't necesseraly make them an _альфонс_.
> I mean, I sometimes use the expression ''toy-boy'' jokingly and with good humour, if I am talking to my girl friends about a guy I date/like who is younger than me (which is rare since I usually go for older guys ) , but it doesn't mean that he has tried to take advantage of my financial status...


Crescent, I had no idea what did mean toy-boy until today, but basing on your a/m description, he is an альфонс and nothing more, or better some special sort of such, being younger than his she-lover (is it possible to say so?).
As for the joking, there is no problem and why can't one call альфонс somebody in the same situation, also just as joke?
The only and most important criterion - why he is with her - for real love like Antony and Cleopatra, or for profit, like a typical heroe of Marchello Mastroyani.


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## Maroseika

Kriviq said:


> Hi, Brian P
> In Bulgarian: sugar daddy - чичко-паричко.


But what does it mean literally?


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## Brian P

Maroseika said:


> But what does it mean literally?


 
чичко = litttle uncle

паричко = monetary

Итак по-русски было бы 'денежный дядя'?


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## Crescent

I hope you don't mind a little correction, Maroseika. 



Maroseika said:


> Crescent, I had no idea what did mean toy-boy _meant_ until today, but basing _judging from_ your a/m description, he is an альфонс and nothing more, or better _even_ some special sort of such, being younger than his she-lover (is it possible to say so?). --  It is possible, I think, but it is a bit of.. _Руссицизм_    You'd be better of saying: _*his female lover*. _
> As for the joking, there is no problem _with that_ and why can't one call альфонс somebody in the same situation, also just as _a _joke?
> The only and most important criteri*a* - why he is with her - for real love like Antony and Cleopatra, or for profit, like a typical heroe of Marchello Mastroyani.



I think it is because _alfons_ in English means something totally different (provided it exists at all, which, according to my dictionary, I don't think does.. ) and if you think about it - even the Russian meaning is a little bit _insulting_..no? If you called your friend an _альфонс _they might not always get the joke and hold a grudge against you for some time. 
Do you see what I mean?


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## Crescent

Brian P said:


> чичко = litttle uncle
> 
> паричко = monetary
> 
> Итак по-русски было бы 'денежный дядя'?



Скорее всего - да!  Только, мне кажется, мы так не говорим...


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## Hotmale

Seana said:


> I apologise that I am cutting in here. After all Brian wants to know these terms in Russian but I must respectfully disagree with Hotmale because in my opinion *sugar daddy* in Polish means *podtatusiały lowelas* it is wealthy older lady-killer who many times gives a young woman expensive gifts in return for friendship or intimacy.
> But just* toyboy* gigolo means *żigolak*- is a man who is financially supported by a wealthy, usually older woman - *utrzymanek* in Polish - kept man.



Hi Seana,
Brian was not only interested in Russian terms: "Говорящие других славянских языков, как их зовут на вашем языке?"

I don't see "podtatusiały lowelas" the way you do. The very word "podtatusiały" brings rather positive connotations. So I imagine a "podtatusiały" man as a pot-bellied person, going bold, but rather nice and warm. 

As to the rest, yes, you're right. 

Cheers, H


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> I hope you don't mind a little correction, Maroseika.


Sure, not and thank you very much, Crescent. 
However cannot agree with you in respect of criteria - in this form it's plural, why I meant single - criterion.
As for "his she-lover", surely it's not русицизм, on the contrary, I judged from he-fox, she-elephant. I also thought about a female-lover but noticed there undesirable connotation of possible "his male-lover".
However, if you think there is nothing like that for the English year, than it's all right, I'll note it.


Crescent said:


> I think it is because _alfons_ in English means something totally different (provided it exists at all, which, according to my dictionary, I don't think does.. ) and if you think about it - even the Russian meaning is a little bit _insulting_..no?


Naturally, it is.
But sugar-daddy and tpy-boy are as well, aren't they??


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## Etcetera

Hi Brian.

Sugar daddies used to be called папики in Russian mass-media. 
It was so in the 190s, when there appeared a lot of rich middle-aged men who had younger girlfriends. I don't know if this word if used now, as I don't read newspapers anymore. But I tried to google this word, and the number of search results was quite impressive.
As for toy-boys, альфонс seems to be the word for it.


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## Seana

Hotmale said:


> I don't see "podtatusiały lowelas" the way you do. The very word "podtatusiały" brings rather positive connotations. So I imagine a "podtatusiały" man as a pot-bellied person, going bold, but rather nice and warm.





Hi Hotmale,  

Look on my picture


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## Hotmale

Seana said:


> Hi Hotmale,
> 
> Look at my picture



Hi Seana,
Ling. pl is not for me the most reliable source. I always double check what I find there.
The emotional worth of "podtatusiały" depends on the context. Without it, I understand it as I described it in my previous post.


Cheers, H


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## Seana

Hi Hotmale again,




> Without it, I understand it as I described it in my previous post.


It is your choice and decision indeed.
But believe me  I know Polish quite well as native and even without ling dict. I am sure the term 'Podtatusiały" is never used without any context and it  always has bad connotation especially  as  lady-killer meaning.
'Podtatusiały' always  describes one who make  something inappropriate to his age ( life style, clothes)to emphasize the ridiculous and  pitifulness of of his behaviour.

PS





> Ling. pl is not for me the most reliable source.


 I see it as very good. Do you know the better dictionary on line. I use getionary.

Greetings


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## Hotmale

Seana said:


> Hi Hotmale again,
> 
> 
> 
> It is your choice and decision indeed.
> But believe me  I know Polish quite well as a native and even without ling dict. I am sure the term 'Podtatusiały" is never used without any context and it  always has a bad connotation especially in the meaning of _a lady-killer_.
> 'Podtatusiały' always  describes one who makes something inappropriate to his age (lifestyle, clothes) to emphasize the ridiculousness  of his behaviour.
> 
> PS I see it as very good. Do you know any better dictionary online. I use getionary.
> 
> Greetings



Hi again 

Well, I consider my Polish good enough to take part in this discussion. Without this belief, I would never dare .
Context is everything. "Podtatusiały" describes a man who has aged, short and simple. 
Consider this: "Postać Indiany Jonesa - zbudowana na kontraście podtatusiałego, nobliwego wykładowcy na uczelni, a zarazem superbohatera w terenie - wyniosła Harrisona Forda na wyżyny sławy i popularności." The description of H.Ford isn't by any means negative. Not at all, it shows the contrast between his looks (of a man in his mid-forties) and his brain power. 
The context and the feelings you put into it, result in how you understand a word. 

P.S I hope you don't mind my minor alterations.
With best wishes, H

Edit: As to the dictionary, try Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary.


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## Seana

Hi Hotmale,
I am not giving up so easy. I am still insisting on my view. 

If you were a man in your mid-forties which opinion about yourself would you prefer to hear. 


1. Ten podtatusiały mężczyzna.

2. Ten dojrzały mężczyzna. _This mature man_

If I were a man I would prefer the second one.

For instance I am giving you another sentence just found in the Polish chat forum by chance. 
It is about couple of Polish actors taking part in a dance competition. 
-Są żałośni. Podtatusiały Mr... tańczący wszystko na jedno kopyto a'la "_Gorączka sobotniej nocy_"
-They are pitiful. Eldery_/podtatusiały _Mr...dancing everything after _Saturday Night Fever _fashion

BTW In your sentence 





> podtatusiałego, nobliwego wykładowcy


 podtatusiały is toned down and neutralized by *nobliwy.* These two words completely don't suit each other. Someone who is described e_legancki_ or _wytworny_ cannot be _podtatusiały_.
(Fr. _noble_ latin _nobilis_ noble, birth noble, refined; elegant, distinguished)
This contrast consists in his looks (of a man in his mid-forties - _podtatusiały, nobliwy_) and his behaviour alike super hero in the rough space.
PS your dictionary is monolingual without the explanations of Polish words or terms.
Many thanks for your corrections.


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## Hotmale

Seana said:


> Hi Hotmale,
> I am not giving up so easily.  I still insist that my view is right.
> 
> If you were a man in your mid-forties which opinion about yourself would you prefer to hear.
> 
> 
> 1. Ten podtatusiały mężczyzna.
> 
> 2. Ten dojrzały mężczyzna. _This mature man_
> 
> If I were a man I would prefer the second one.
> 
> For instance I am giving you another sentence just found in a Polish chat room by chance.
> It is about a couple of Polish actors taking part in a dance competition.
> -Są żałośni. Podtatusiały Mr... tańczący wszystko na jedno kopyto a'la "_Gorączka sobotniej nocy_"
> -They are pitiful. Eldery_/podtatusiały _Mr...dancing everything after _Saturday Night Fever's _fashion
> 
> BTW In your sentence  podtatusiały is toned down and neutralized by *nobliwy.* These two words completely don't suit each other. Someone who is described e_legancki_ or _wytworny_ cannot be _podtatusiały_.
> (Fr. _noble_ latin _nobilis_ noble, birth noble, refined; elegant, distinguished)
> This contrast consists is about the looks (of a man in his mid-forties - _podtatusiały, nobliwy_) and his behaviour of a super hero in the rough space.
> PS your dictionary is monolingual without the explanations of Polish words or terms.
> Many thanks for your corrections.



Hi again 

The difference between your sentences is that the first one refers to looks, and the other to personality. Someone may be both "dojrzały" and "podtatusiały". I can't see the clash. I also believe that an elegant man can be a little "podtatusiały". Let's take Kevin Spacey. You can't deny that he _is_ elegant, even if slightly "podtatusiały"  . Look this word up in a good Słownik Języka Polskiego. 

With best wishes,
Hotmale


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## Seana

_According to my beloved ling.pl_

*maturity* state of being mature, the period of time in your life after your physical growth has stopped and you are fully developed,

_According to Słownik Języka Polskiego_

*Podtatusiały* _pot._ «o mężczyźnie w średnim wieku: wyglądający nieatrakcyjnie, na więcej lat, niż ma»
about a middle-aged man: looking unattractively, far more older then he really is »

I still don't think that decribing ' a man looks unattractively ' has a positive connotation in any context of its usage.


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## Thomas1

I would say _lowelas_ or _gieroj_ (the later one is mainly in the slang use so I expect that it is not used commonly), I also heard _tatuś_. To tell the truth I can’t remember hearing anyone use _podtatusiały_ (it sounds as if people who use it are a generation older than me ), anyway, it doesn't mean that people don't use it_._

As for _toy-boy_ I also heard _przydupas,_ it has rather pejorative overtones, and it sounds a little bit too disparaging for me, I’d be more likely to use _żigolo_.

I think, you could translate these terms by many ways, depending on the context. 


Tom


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## Hotmale

Hi Seana,



Seana said:


> 1. Ten podtatusiały mężczyzna.
> 
> 2. Ten dojrzały mężczyzna. _This mature man _





Seana said:


> *maturity* state of being mature, the period of time in your life after your physical growth has stopped and you are fully developed.



A man (mężczyzna) must be grown physically, for if he weren't, he would be a boy not a man. 

Therefore "dojrzały (mężczyzna)" as opposed to "niedojrzały (mężczyzna)" means:   _to become more developed mentally and emotionally and behave in a responsible way.

_This is to prove that "podtatusiały" refers to the looks, while "mature" to personality not to the state of being grown physically.


As to the word in question, consider the extract below. It proves that
context is everything and it depends on what feelings you wish to express.
I am not going to persuade you to my point of view - if you understand the word in the way you have stated, that's OK with me  . Let's stick to our points of view then.

Here is the extract:

_"Jego filmy to małe arcydzieła, celuloidowe majstersztyki, świetne wyreżyserowan i zagrane. Woody jest dla mnie jak podtatusiały Harry Potter, jest najlepszy w hollywooddzkiej szkole filmowej i zawsze dokonuje magicznego przewrotu w światowej kinematografi ... "

_Is "podtatusiały" a really negative word here? Does it mean more than "oldish"? 

With best wishes,
Hotmale


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## Kriviq

Brian P said:


> чичко = litttle uncle
> 
> паричко = monetary



Yes, Brian P but the diminutive doesn`t necessarily mean physically smaller. It might indicate attitudes like affection, irony, disregard and even contempt. In this case I`d rather say it`s a mixture of all these.


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## Seana

Hi,


			
				 Thomas1 said:
			
		

> I would say _lowelas_ or _gieroj_


_Gieroj_ ( russian _герой_ ) is used in the Polish slang as a hero but sarcastically. Given by Tom word _p......s_ is vulgarism. _Żygolak,żigolo _(gigolo) is associated by me with the characters from the literature of the thirties. In my opinion much better is _utrzymanek _(a kept man). 

PS 'looking unacttractively'  

Hotmale I can see that you will never become convinced by me.


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## Marga H

Hotmale,
I must confirm Seana's opinion about the word_ podtatusiały._I can't imagine any positive conotation with it. It really sounds rather pitifuly and no matter what your dictionary says about it, trust us and never call that way the person you like or estime. I even would say that _nobliwy _is impossible to use in order to describe the same person.
Language is not always logical, so _mężczyzna_ can be in Polish _dojrzały ( _a bit later after he was joung ) and this word has positive meaning.
Pozdrowienia.


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## Hotmale

Marga H said:


> Hotmale,
> I must confirm Seana's opinion about the word_ podtatusiały._I can't imagine any positive connotation of it. It really sounds rather pitiful and no matter what your dictionary says about it, trust us and never call that way a person you like or esteem. I even would say that _nobliwy _is impossible to use in order to describe the same person.
> Language is not always logical, so _mężczyzna_ can be in Polish _dojrzały ( _a bit later after he was joung ) and this word has a positive meaning.
> Pozdrowienia.



Hello Marga,

I understand your point of view, but it is debatable. I won't reword what I've already written in my previous posts, but I can take it that some people may see it differently. To prove it, the two extracts I've quoted give a rather pleasant image of a man. They were both written by a Pole, so you cannot say that that person doesn't know how to use "podtatusiały" properly.
Indeed, a man can be mature (and immature). This is a  quality of personality and not the state of being grown physically. Of course it has a positive meaning. Only mature man can understand what is really at stake .

With best wishes,
Hotmale

P.S Trust me, I am enough proficient in Polish to have "lexical" opinions of my own  .


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## Maja

Hmmm, I was trying to find the right terms in Serbian, but I just couldn't  remember any apart from "*sponzoruša*" (which is a pejorative term for a  girl  that is being with someone, usually older man, only for his money).  
"Sugar daddy" in that context could be "*sponzor*". 
As for  "toy-boy", I cannot say. 
If I find anything in my "Urban Dictionary of  Belgrade Slang", I'll get back to you on that!


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