# dal vero



## Otter

Hi Everyone,

Can someone tell me if 'dal vero' is an idiom, meaning something like "for real", or. . . .?

Thanks.


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## YellowM

Hey Quinn,

can you better define the phrase "for real"? I maybe have an answer but I' m not so sure about it: does "for real" mean "sure"?


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## TimLA

Quinn said:
			
		

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Can someone tell me if 'dal vero' is an idiom, meaning something like "for real", or. . . .?
> 
> Thanks.


 
Have you heard it or read it?

Could it be "davvero"?

Tim


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## Otter

Hi Tim,

I read it. ". . . . .darmelo dal vero"

I'm not sure I can define "for real". . . . I was guessing.


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## Elisa68

Hi Quinn. 

_Dal vero_ is not "for real" but "from life". As Tim said _for real_ is _davvero_.


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## Otter

Hi, Thanks.

So, "Darmelo dal vero" would translate as . . . . "Give it to me from life"? What does that mean in Italian?  I thought "vero" translates and "true" or "real".  I"m sooo confused.


Grazie again.


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## TimLA

Elisa68 said:
			
		

> Hi Quinn.
> 
> _Dal vero_ is not "for real" but "from life". As Tim said _for real_ is _davvero_.


 
Elisa,
Could you give us a bit more of an explanation of it's origin?
Could it be "from reality"? and that has been re-translated "from life"?
Thanks
Tim


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## YellowM

Yes Quinn, "vero" means "true" and "real" in opposition to "falso"; but as an extended meaning it stands for all things that "real", i.e. all existing thing, i.e. the reality, your all-day life made of tangible entities and not virtual, digital entities.

I guess this sentence is an excerpt from a chat; a possible script could be:


> Un bacio
> Potresti darmelo dal vero

> Kiss (as a greeting)
> You could give me one in real life

Or something like that :-S

Is it any clearer now? 

M.


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## Elisa68

Certo, Tim. 

For example we use it to say _to drawn from_ _life_ = _dipingere dal vero._

Probably Quinn's friend wanted to say _dal vero_ meaning  _dal vivo=_ _in person_:
_You will give it to me when we meet in person._


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## Otter

Tim, YellowM, and Elisa,

Thanks a million.


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## TimLA

Thanks YellowM and Elisa

My confusion is just a very technical one.
When I see "vero" I think of "truth/true" or one of their synonyms.
Then I saw the translation into "life" -- which makes me think that there may be a different way of thinking about vero's real meaning in English.
So I went to De Mauro and saw that most of the meanings are "true" , but one is "realtà".

So I wonder if when you are thinking about "vero" as used in "dal vero" it means more "from reality" (dalla realtà) than it does "from life" (dalla vita).

I think Elisa's example here is excellent - dipingere dal vero. Yes, I would translate it as "drawn from life", but it is also "drawn from reality".

This is more of an intellectual exercise I do to help me understand and remember the word better. Sorry.

Grazie per la vostra pazienzia (sempre troppe parole )
Tim


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## Elisa68

Tim le tue parole non sono mai troppe! 

Se ti aiuta a capire meglio puoi anche considerare che, ad esempio, _dal vero_ viene usato per dire che hai conosciuto una persona famosa "di persona", anche se personalmente userei _dal vivo_ (live?).


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## You little ripper!

It would be the same as saying, _I saw Mina live, in concert. Ho visto Mina dal vivo, in concerto. (Is that correct?)_


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## TimLA

Elisa68 said:
			
		

> Tim le tue parole non sono mai troppe!
> 
> Se ti aiuta a capire meglio puoi anche considerare che, ad esempio, _dal vero_ viene usato per dire che hai conosciuto una persona famosa "di persona", anche se personalmente userei _dal vivo_ (live?).


 
Esattamente!
È molto sottile (secondo me), anche in inglese! Ho visto "in vivo" per un spettacolo - diremmo "live" ma non "vivo" nel senso di "alive" o "vive". "Dal vero" a me, sembra più "realtà" o "in vivo" che "vive" (It's alive!!!).

Ti ringrazio, come sempre, e vi ringrazio a tutti voi chi sempre mi aiutate!
Che forum incredibile!
Tim

edit: aiutate


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## Otter

YellowM said:
			
		

> Yes Quinn, "vero" means "true" and "real" in opposition to "falso"; but as an extended meaning it stands for all things that "real", i.e. all existing thing, i.e. the reality, your all-day life made of tangible entities and not virtual, digital entities.
> 
> I guess this sentence is an excerpt from a chat; a possible script could be:
> 
> 
> > Un bacio
> > Potresti darmelo dal vero
> 
> > Kiss (as a greeting)
> > You could give me one in real life
> 
> Or something like that :-S
> 
> Is it any clearer now?
> 
> M.


 
By the way, (Yellow)M, You are absolutely correct in recognizing that it was about tangible vs. virtual realities.  Thanks.


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## AWOL4mylo

Old thread, but I think I have a meaningful contribution to make anyway....
I just had to manage 'dal vero' in a case where "in person" worked just perfect.  After seeing a photo of a painting, someone wanted to see it "in person" at the gallery to find out if it was really worth purchasing for their own gallery.


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## WordsWordWords

**** NEW QUESTION ****

Hi everyone,

I am translating an  interview with an architect. He uses the term "dal vero" in a description of a building he designed. 

* Dal vero* si ha l’impressione che l’edificio non sia verticale; chi guarda tuttavia non intuisce il motivo di tale sensazione, dal momento che l’occhio non contempla la possibilità che le persiane non siano posate in verticale. 

(I have looked at photos of the building in question -- and indeed I do not personally have this impression so I think he means that one _must_ see it "in person" as AWOL4mylo suggested in the last post. However, the term "in person" seems a bit colloquial for a formal architecture journal so I'm thinking "in real life" is better....but I'm not convinced.)

My version (for now):

_* Seeing it in real life*_ one gets the impression that the building is not vertical; however, the observer does not comprehend the reason for this sensation since the eye does not consider the possibility that the blinds have not been installed vertically. 

NB: "Vertically" here means flush with the exterior wall and not as contrasting to "horizontally". >> https://it.pinterest.com/pin/542331980099950846/

Thanks for any help


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## Blackman

Senza entrare nel merito di tutta la discussione (specialmente in riferimento a chi non può più partecipare, ciao Tim...), nella frase in questione avrei usato _dal vivo _e non dal vero, da preferirsi in altri contesti. Come si dipinge un quadro _dal vero_, cioè avendo materialmente davanti a sé l'oggetto, così si assiste a un evento o si osserva qualcosa _dal vivo _e si conosce qualcuno _di persona, _con le ovvie sfumature dovute a contesti e situazioni specifiche.


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## WordsWordWords

Blackman said:


> Senza entrare nel merito di tutta la discussione (specialmente in riferimento a chi non può più partecipare, ciao Tim...), nella frase in questione avrei usato _dal vivo _e non dal vero, da preferirsi in altri contesti. Come si dipinge un quadro _dal vero_, cioè avendo materialmente davanti a sé l'oggetto, così si assiste a un evento o si osserva qualcosa _dal vivo _e si conosce qualcuno _di persona, _con le ovvie sfumature dovute a contesti e situazioni specifiche.


Hi Blackman, Hi Tim :-(
I agree with your comment that "dal vivo" would be a better choice than "dal vero" But that is the original writer's choice of words and not up to me 
My problem is how to best render it in English...


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## Paulfromitaly

Blackman said:


> nella frase in questione avrei usato _dal vivo _e non dal vero, da preferirsi in altri contesti.


I agree.
I'd say "In person".


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## Blackman

WordsWordWords said:


> Hi Blackman, Hi Tim :-(
> I agree with your comment that "dal vivo" would be a better choice than "dal vero" But that is the original writer's choice of words and not up to me
> My problem is how to best render it in English...


How would you say that in English?


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## WordsWordWords

Blackman said:


> How would you say that in English?


I gave my attempt in post #20.... 

@Paul - Still not sure if "in person" seems too informal for my context...


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## johngiovanni

Seen in the flesh, the building appears not to be vertical.


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## metazoan

"Seen with one's own eye(s), ..."


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## WordsWordWords

metazoan said:


> "Seen with one's own eye(s), ..."


Nice idea metazoan, thank you!


johngiovanni said:


> Seen in the flesh, the building appears not to be vertical.


Hmmm....jg I don't think I would use the word "flesh" when referring to an inanimate object...


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## Blackman

WordsWordWords said:


> Nice idea metazoan, thank you!
> 
> Hmmm....jg I don't think I would use the word "flesh" when referring to an inanimate object...





WordsWordWords said:


> I gave my attempt in post #20....
> 
> @Paul - Still not sure if "in person" seems too informal for my context...


Weird enough, in person sounds less informal than one's own eyes, to my non-native ear.


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## johngiovanni

WordsWordWords said:


> Hmmm....jg I don't think I would use the word "flesh" when referring to an inanimate object...



I would. Here's an architect quoted in "The Architect's Journal": "It’s a weird thing, this Beacon, when seen in the flesh; part-window, part-wall and part-parapet too."
And here is the Royal Academy tallking about seeing paintings "in the flesh": Matisse's phosphorescent Venice interiors; Cézanne's revolutionary landscapes; Constable's daring spatial structures; Titian's unerringly inventive compositions: all these feel more relevant than ever when seen in the flesh."
If you do a search you will find many examples of inanimate objects being seen "in the flesh".


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## WordsWordWords

johngiovanni said:


> I would. Here's an architect quoted in "The Architect's Journal": "It’s a weird thing, this Beacon, when seen in the flesh; part-window, part-wall and part-parapet too."
> And here is the Royal Academy tallking about seeing paintings "in the flesh": Matisse's phosphorescent Venice interiors; Cézanne's revolutionary landscapes; Constable's daring spatial structures; Titian's unerringly inventive compositions: all these feel more relevant than ever when seen in the flesh."
> If you do a search you will find many examples of inanimate objects being seen "in the flesh".



 Who knew? Thank you for looking that up jg! 

So, at this point my effort (_Seeing it in real life_ one gets the impression...) is out, and I'll go with "Seeing it in the flesh...."


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## Flaviam88

johngiovanni said:


> Seen in the flesh, the building appears not to be vertical.


Yes this is a hard one given that buildings don't technically have flesh. I like to joke and say 'In the brick'


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## MR1492

WordsWordWords said:


> Who knew? Thank you for looking that up jg!
> 
> So, at this point my effort (_Seeing it in real life_ one gets the impression...) is out, and I'll go with "Seeing it in the flesh...."



When I see "Seeing it in the flesh ..." I get the impression it means that I am right there looking at it and as I am a person I am "in the flesh."  Just my $0.02 and another perspective.

Phil


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## johngiovanni

I think you have touched on something here, MR. _You_ are in the flesh and _it_ is in the flesh, as it were. It's a face-to-face encounter, not via some representation.
I think about looking at those wonderful Van Goghs on the top floor of the  Musée d'Orsay compared with looking at the prints we see in the books.  Seen in the flesh, they make you cry.  (Me at least).


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