# Manus Ludis



## Stregattone

Hi everyone, I started studying Latin for about two months.
I'm italian.
I have a simple question: I often step near a game store called Manus Ludis.
I never got in, but today I tried to translate the name:
_
The part (the side) with the games_ is for the moment the best translation I've found ..
Am I on the right track?

Thank you.


----------



## P2Grafn0l

I think it says: The company with games. 
_Company = A team; a group of people who work together professionally._


----------



## wandle

Stregattone said:


> Manus Ludis.


Unfortunately it is not a true Latin expression. The words are Latin, but they do not work together on their own.


P2Grafn0l said:


> The company with games.


That might be the intention of the company, but (1) Latin does not work like that; (2) what would that mean anyway?


----------



## P2Grafn0l

wandle said:


> Unfortunately it is not a true Latin expression. The words are Latin, but they do not work together on their own.
> 
> That might be the intention of the company, but (1) Latin does not work like that; (2) what would that mean anyway?



Not that I'm here to defend the combination.
But, why can't it be a new expression? 
I don't see the fault in it.


----------



## wandle

Every language has rules. Words can only be correctly used in certain combinations. 
If I said 'Be words can combinations certain used in only correctly', the words would still be English, but the 'sentence' would not.


----------



## P2Grafn0l

wandle said:


> Every language has rules. Words can only be correctly used in certain combinations.
> If I said 'Be words can combinations certain used in only correctly', the words would still be English, but the 'sentence' would not.



Surely, but "Manus Ludis" is not as I would say, a full sentence.
It is more of a title, or an abbreviated idiom: Have a hand in something. 
Manus Ludis. = A hand in games.


----------



## wandle

P2Grafn0l said:


> Surely, but "Manus Ludis" is not as I would say, a full sentence.


It was easier to make the point with a sentence, because in English we can very easily put two nouns together and make sense in doing so.
Latin is different: it does not do that, except in a few precise ways.

Latin uses inflections: word endings that change to show different meanings. In _manus ludis, _the noun _ludis _could be dative plural or ablative plural, but neither one works to make a good Latin sense.
To link two nouns directly together, one needs to be in the genitive case, as in _victor ludorum, '_the winner (or champion) of the games'.


----------



## P2Grafn0l

Or like below: 
*Cum ludis manus. = *The company with games. 
*Manus in ludis. *= The company in games. 

Am I right?


----------



## Stregattone

Hello! Great thread But, my translation? Can works also?


----------



## P2Grafn0l

Stregattone said:


> Hello! Great thread But, my translation? Can works also?



You could ask the owner of the game store, if you want to know for sure. 
I'd say, your translation works, unless there is only one store bearing that name.


----------



## wandle

Stregattone said:


> Hello! Great thread But, my translation? Can works also?


The trouble is that the title is not valid Latin and therefore has no real meaning as Latin.


P2Grafn0l said:


> You could ask the owner of the game store,


That will tell you what the owner meant, but it will still not be a valid translation (because that is unfortunately not possible).


----------



## P2Grafn0l

wandle said:


> That will tell you what the owner meant, but it will still not be a valid translation (because that is unfortunately not possible).



So you're saying that "*Cum ludis manus*" and "*Manus in ludis*" are wrong also, even though "*cum*" and "*in*" denote the ablative case?


----------



## wandle

What I am saying is that no valid translation of _Manus Ludis_ is possible because it does not make sense as Latin.


----------



## P2Grafn0l

wandle said:


> What I am saying is that no valid translation of _Manus Ludis_ is possible because it does not make sense as Latin.



It would make a tiny little bit of sense if you were to assume "ludis" is in the ablative case, like in the examples I have given, but in "Manus Ludis" the ablative would then hide behind "ludis".
Agreed?


----------



## wandle

I am sorry, but _Manus Ludis_ does not make sense at all.

If someone wanted a Latin name for a shop selling games, I would suggest _Domus Ludorum_: 'The Home of Games'.


----------



## P2Grafn0l

wandle said:


> I am sorry, but _Manus Ludis_ does not make sense at all.
> 
> If someone wanted a Latin name for a shop selling games, I would suggest _Domus Ludorum_: 'The Home of Games'.



Oh well, I didn't come up with it. 
Vale, manus non quae est in ludis!


----------

