# for as much as



## Moiraine

Hola,

Trato de traducir "for as much as" al castellano en esta frase: "In places it was gone for as much as a span." "It" aquí se refiere a la barandilla protectora de un puente.

Mi intento: En algunos lugares no existía de nada tan largo como un arco.

No me suena bien de ninguna manera

Muchas gracias


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## Oldy Nuts

Yo lo entiendo como que en algunas partes faltaba hasta un palmo de la barandilla...


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## Moiraine

Sí, pero un palmo no es muy largo, y en este contexto, han desaparecido secciones grandes del puente, por eso creo que se refiere a un arco. Encontré esta definición en la real academia: _Arq._ Fábrica en forma de *arco,* que cubre un vano entre dos pilares o puntos fijos., pero tal vez esta palabra no es correcta en el contexto tampoco...


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## Moiraine

¿Está equivocada esa suposición? ¿Hay alguien que tenga una idea respecto a la parte "for as much as"?


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## albertovidal

En lugares en los que faltaba un tramo de la barandilla


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## Oldy Nuts

Moiraine said:


> ¿Está equivocada esa suposición? ¿Hay alguien que tenga una idea respecto a la parte "for as much as"?



Ésa no es la parte problemática; ya te sugerí "en algunas partes faltaba hasta". El problema es que yo entendí "un palmo/una cuarta", y tú ahora dices que es muchísimo más. Y no sé si la gente no experta en el tema entenderá si llamas "un arco" a la distancia entre dos pilares. Lo siento, no se me ocurre nada, salvo cambiar a "en algunas partes faltaban tramos completos" o algo así.


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## albertovidal

"for as much as" = *since/seeing that* (as far as I know it's archaic)


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## Moiraine

Gracias por responder, pero no creo que ese significado funcione en el contexto de la oración original en inglés, y necesito traducirla al castellano.


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## albertovidal

Moiraine said:


> Gracias por responder, pero no creo que ese significado funcione en el contexto de la oración original en inglés, y necesito traducirla al castellano.



Would this sound the same to you? : "In places it was gone for as much as a span" "In places there were *not *spans *since* they had disappeared"

"Había lugares sin algunos tramos (de la barandilla)* puesto que* habían desaparecido"


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## Oldy Nuts

albertovidal said:


> Would this sound the same to you? : "In places it was gone for as much as a span" "In places there were spans *since* they had disappeared"
> 
> "Había lugares sin algunos tramos (de la barandilla)* puesto que* habían desaparecido"



Perdona, pero como no entiendo qué significado le estás dando a la palabra "span", menos entiendo cómo llegaste a esta proposición que, en mi opinión, poco tiene que ver con la frase original.

Traducida más o menos literalmente, la frase original quiere decir "en lugares, ella (la barandilla) había desaparecido por tanto como un _span_", que yo propuse poner en mejor español diciendo "había partes en que faltaba hasta un palmo" de la barandilla, ya que entendí _span_ en su significado corriente de _palmo_. Por lo que nos dice Moiraine, las partes faltantes eran muchísimo mayores, correspondiendo a lo que en arquitectura entienden por _span_ que, en el caso de un puente corresponde a la distancia o espacio entre dos de sus soportes. Y el problema es que, al menos yo, no sé cómo denominan a ese espacio los arquitectos de habla hispana.


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## albertovidal

Oldy Nuts said:


> Perdona, pero como no entiendo qué significado le estás dando a la palabra "span", menos entiendo cómo llegaste a esta proposición que, en mi opinión, poco tiene que ver con la frase original.
> 
> Traducida más o menos literalmente, la frase original quiere decir "en lugares, ella (la barandilla) había desaparecido por tanto como un _span_", que yo propuse poner en mejor español diciendo "había partes en que faltaba hasta un palmo" de la barandilla, ya que entendí _span_ en su significado corriente de _palmo_. Por lo que nos dice Moiraine, las partes faltantes eran muchísimo mayores, correspondiendo a lo que en arquitectura entienden por _span_ que, en el caso de un puente corresponde a la distancia o espacio entre dos de sus soportes. Y el problema es que, al menos yo, no sé cómo denominan a ese espacio los arquitectos de habla hispana.


Disculpas.
Acabo de corregir mi post anterior agregando la negación, quedando la frase así: "In places, there were *not *spans *since* they had disappeared" y, por supuesto que "span" lo traduje com "tramo"


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## Oldy Nuts

albertovidal said:


> Disculpas.
> Acabo de corregir mi post anterior agregando la negación, quedando la frase así: "In places, there were *not *spans *since* they had disappeared" y, por supuesto que "span" lo traduje com "tramo"



Lo malo es que _span_ es una distancia, la distancia entre dos soportes de un puente, así que no puede desaparecer... De dictionary.com, en "span":



> *span*
> 
> ...
> *–noun*
> ...
> *4.* _Civil Engineering,  Architecture_....​*c.* the distance or space between two supports of a bridge.​


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## albertovidal

Oldy Nuts said:


> Lo malo es que _span_ es una distancia, la distancia entre dos soportes de un puente, así que no puede desaparecer... De dictionary.com, en "span":



Estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero *Moraine *dijo que "it" correspondía a la barandilla. Con lo cual, en mi opinión, había tramos "spans" de la barandilla (it) que ya no estaban.


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## St. Nick

Algo así como "En algunos lugares lo que le faltaba podía incluir hasta la sección entera."


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## Oldy Nuts

Lo que ya no estaba eran partes de la barandilla hasta del largo de un _span_...


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## k-in-sc

Oldy Nuts said:


> Lo que ya no estaba eran partes de la barandilla hasta del largo de un _span_...


Why is this so confusing?
It (the handrail) was missing in some places, some of them the entire length of one span of the bridge.
It's difficult to know how to translate "span" without knowing the details of the construction of this particular bridge.


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> Why is this so confusing?
> It (the handrail) was missing in some places, some of them the entire length of one span of the bridge.
> It's difficult to know how to translate "span" without knowing the details of the construction of this particular bridge.



It has never been confusing for me, except that at first I thought that "span" meant the distance between the tips of a person's thumb and little finger, hand fully stretched... And yes, I am stuck with the _translation_ of the span of a bridge, not with its meaning.


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## albertovidal

k-in-sc said:


> Why is this so confusing?
> It (the handrail) was missing in some places, some of them the entire length of one span of the bridge.
> It's difficult to know how to translate "span" without knowing the details of the construction of this particular bridge.



Ok. Then, how would you translate "for as much as" in the context of this thread?


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## St. Nick

It's confusing to some because Moiraine's initial question is not being addressed: _"for as much as." _


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## Oldy Nuts

albertovidal said:


> Ok. Then, how would you translate "for as much as" in the context of this thread?



Could you please explain why you don't agree with the suggestion I have been making from the start?


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## k-in-sc

Actually, maybe it does mean "tramos enteros" of the handrail rather than the bridge. That is, the "tramos" of the handrail don't correspond to elements of the bridge.


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> Actually, maybe it does mean "tramos enteros" of the handrail rather than the bridge. That is, the "tramos" of the handrail don't correspond to elements of the bridge.



Well, I offered this as an alternative in message #6, to avoid the "span" problem...


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## k-in-sc

Oldy Nuts said:


> Well, I offered this as an alternative in message #6, to avoid the "span" problem...


Well, I agree 
But it's not avoiding the problem, it's that in this case "tramo" = "span."


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## albertovidal

My apologies *OldyNuts,* I overlooked your second post


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## k-in-sc

Just a note: I think we're talking about a railing here, not a handrail (banister).


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> Well, I agree
> But it's not avoiding the problem, it's that in this case "tramo" = "span."



I confess that, as Moiraine always talked of a bridge, I have been mistakenly thinking all the time that "span" refers to the spans of the bridge (that is, all the time after I undersood it is not the span of a hand) . Thanks to K, I now realize that it _must_ refer to spans of the handrail itself, in which case the word to use _is_ "tramo".


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## k-in-sc

Yeah, that confused me too. Could you also use "secciones"?


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## juandiego

Moiraine said:


> Sí, pero un palmo no es muy largo, y en este contexto, han desaparecido secciones grandes del puente, por eso creo que se refiere a un arco. Encontré esta definición en la real academia: _Arq._ Fábrica en forma de *arco,* que cubre un vano entre dos pilares o puntos fijos., pero tal vez esta palabra no es correcta en el contexto tampoco...


Hello Moiraine.

Well, *arco* is an arch, always with its characteristic curve shape. The word in Spanish to translate _span_, I'd say, is *vano*:
*8*. _m. Arquitectura_. Parte del muro o fábrica en que no hay sustentáculo o apoyo para el techo o bóveda; p. ej., los huecos de ventanas o puertas y los intercolumnios.

This is a term often used in technical construction jargon and refers to both the space and the supported part between two consecutive supports (columns, bearing walls, etc).

The problem is that it is seldom if ever used for something so light as a handrail/railing stretch between its posts and neither for longer stretches; it's rather for at least relatively heavy loaded parts. If the original _span_ is referring to the stretch between two consecutive posts of the handrail/railing, I agree with *tramos*. If the original _span_ is referring to the whole distance of the handrail/railing between two consecutive columns/supports of the bridge, it's more technically accurate the term _vano_; so you could say something like (being as much literal as I can think of):
_En partes faltaba la barandilla en tanto como hasta un vano_.

_Tramo_ would be also valid for that second option though it doesn't specify a precise distance but it's open to interpretation. On the contrary, _vano_ is totally precise in this sense.

Hope it helps.


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## k-in-sc

Are we using "barandilla" to mean "railing"? Because the "handrail" is only the _top_ of the railing.


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## Oldy Nuts

albertovidal said:


> My apologies *OldyNuts,* I overlooked your second post



No harm done. Except, perhaps, that we have made this thread longer than it could have been...


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> Yeah, that confused me too. Could you also use "secciones"?



Yes, you could, but I think "tramos" is clearer and more accurate. Just my opinion.


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> Are we using "barandilla" to mean "railing"? Because the "handrail" is only the _top_ of the railing.



This is a question for Moiraine; it was she who used the word. I took it to mean the whole structure that is so indispensable for us older people, supports included.


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## juandiego

k-in-sc said:


> Are we using "barandilla" to mean "railing"? Because the "handrail" is only the _top_ of the railing.


Good point, k-in-sc.
Ok, then _handrail_ is *pasamanos* in Spanish and, as you say, _railing_ is *barandilla*.


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## k-in-sc

The point is not that it's a support but that it is a barrier that keeps people from falling through. A handrail can be completely open underneath.
Edit:


juandiego said:


> Good point, k-in-sc.
> Ok, then _handrail_ is *pasamanos* in Spanish and, as you say, _railing_ is *barandilla*.


OK, thanks, question resolved! (Note that in Spanish I would have said "duda" but in English I did NOT say "doubt" ... )


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> The point is not that it's a support but that it is a barrier that keeps people from falling through. A handrail can be completely open underneath.
> Edit:
> 
> OK, thanks, question resolved! (Note that in Spanish I would have said "duda" but in English I did NOT say "doubt" ... )



Not completely. The proper word would then be "pretil", but not many people would understand it around here:

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=pretil


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## k-in-sc

pretil: parapet
That's a low wall, not a railing ...


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## Oldy Nuts

k-in-sc said:


> pretil: parapet
> That's a low wall, not a railing ...



Unless Moiraine gives us a clear description of the structure that was missing in the bridge, we'll never know for sure which is the right word to use. Not that it matters very much in relation to her question, I think.


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