# Tutoyer



## nicko

Dans la phrase "Mon patron et moi, nous nous tutoyons", comment traduire "se tutoyer" ? "To be on first name terms with someone" en est-il une bonne traduction, ou cela veut-il seulement dire "appeler quelqu'un par son prénom"?


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## Eddie

_To be on a first-name basis with somebody is fine_, Nicko. That's about as close as you can get to the _tutoyer_ concept in English.

My boss and I are on a first-name basis with each other.
 
Doudou


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## timpeac

nicko said:
			
		

> Dans la phrase "Mon patron et moi, nous nous tutoyons", comment traduire "se tutoyer" ? "To be on first name terms with someone" en est-il une bonne traduction, ou cela veut-il seulement dire "appeler quelqu'un par son prénom"?


 
Oui ça veut dire simplement "appeler quelqu'un par son prénom" mais il n'y a rien d'autre en anglais comme "se tutoyer". Si les gens à qui tu parles comprendraient la notion de "tutoyer" tu pourrais dire "My boss and I use "tu" with each other" ou "my boss and I use the "tu" form of verbs with each other".

En fait, de nos jours tout le monde appèle son patron par son prénom donc je vais essayer de trouver quelque chose de mieux.

Si on disait "I don't stand on ceremony with my boss"? "My boss and I are on friendly terms"? En fin de compte il faut souligner quelqu'autre facette des relations plutôt chaleureuses que tu as avec ton patron pour traduire l'idée en anglais.


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## lyrwriter

The difference between the "tu" and "vous" forms _did_  exist in English about 400 years ago. Nowadays, English-speakers have dropped the informal "thou" (adapted from the French "tu") and instead use "you" (from "vous") for all occasions and situations. 

Here's an example of the two forms being used side by side from Shakespeare's _A Midsummer Night's Dream_:

TITANIA 
I pray thee, gentle mortal, sing again:
Mine ear is much enamour'd of thy note;
So is mine eye enthralled to thy shape;
And thy fair virtue's force perforce doth move me
On the first view to say, to swear, I love thee.

BOTTOM 
Methinks, mistress, you should have little reason
for that...

Titania, Queen of the Faeries, has been magically bewitched into falling in love with Bottom, and consequently addresses him with the "thou" form to show her affection. Bottom, on the other hand, is a working-class man. When presented with a beautiful lady who is obviously of noble birth, he uses the respectful "you".

Isn't it fascinating? I learned this during rehearsals for a production of _Midsummer _I was recently a part of. Because differentiating between these two forms such an alien concept to modern English-speakers, most of us hadn't noticed the subtlety of what it means when Puck uses a respectful "you" when speaking to another faery, only to be addressed as "thou" in return. That's only one of many examples. The point is that it gives us (the actors) a whole new aspect to work with if we're aware of this difference.


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## linguist786

My suggestion is:

(vouvoyer) - "My boss and I use the formal form of address"
(toutoyer) - "My boss and I use the informal form of address"


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## texasweed

Very interesting, Lyrwriter. Wish we saw you more around here.
When told that "anglophones se tutoient" I always correct frenchies with "non, ils se vouvoient". Is that wrong then ? I've always assumed it came from the colonization time, *Victorian times* when wives said "vous" to their husband, and children to their parents. Wrong concept ? (That's really a question I'm asking here !)
In any case, the fact of "tutoyer" a child as we do a dog *irks me*. Are they not worthy of respect simply because they're young ? What of Mozart at age 3 ? I have 13 and 16 year old students I insisted upon "vouvoyer" - THEY corrected me, and all I could say was "ok, si vous me tutoyez aussi"... Heck, every great mind was once a child. Past age 11, it gives me a hard time ! Is that a French way of putting kids down, let them know adults are superior to them, that parents are their "boss" rather than their *guide* ? Ca m'est insupportable !

"On a first-name basis" is the only possible translation, but doesn't convey the derogatory meaning I *so resent* (as concerns children.)


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## polaire

texasweed said:
			
		

> Very interesting, Lyrwriter. Wish we saw you more around here.
> When told that "anglophones se tutoient" I always correct frenchies with "non, ils se vouvoient". Is that wrong then ? I've always assumed it came from the colonization time, *Victorian times* when wives said "vous" to their husband, and children to their parents. Wrong concept ? (That's really a question I'm asking here !)
> * In any case, the fact of "tutoyer" a child as we do a dog irks me. Are they not worthy of respect simply because they're young ? *What of Mozart at age 3 ? I have 13 and 16 year old students I insisted upon "vouvoyer" - THEY corrected me, and all I could say was "ok, si vous me tutoyez aussi"... Heck, every great mind was once a child. Past age 11, it gives me a hard time ! Is that a French way of putting kids down, let them know adults are superior to them, that parents are their "boss" rather than their *guide* ? Ca m'est insupportable !
> 
> * "On a first-name basis" is the only possible translation*, but doesn't convey the derogatory meaning I *so resent* (as concerns children.)


I think it's more complicated than that.  With pets and children, it's a form of affection that would not be appropriate with strangers or people who are no longer children.  To use "tu" with the wrong person is presumptuous.

Americans love their animals; many consider animals to be their "kids."  It's no insult to a child to be addressed in the same way.   When I say "children," I'm talking about persons under the age of 12.  Adolescents are different, or at the very least the decision would be made on a case-by-case basis, which using "tu" always is in the end, aside from the basic rules.

In English, the God of the Christian New Testament is addressed as "thou;" hardly a sign of a lack of respect:  "Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done . . . .

To me, "to be on a first-name basis" does not say much, at least in America.  Almost everyone in my life is (or thinks s/he should be) on a first-name basis whether I like it or not.  I think the more literal translations involving "form of address"  or "using the familar form of you" are preferable.

Japanese has something like 14 different levels of address.  Generally, in English when describing this aspect of Japanese people refer to the higher registers as "using the honorific form."


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## emma42

Je suis d'accord avec Polaire.  Je préférerais "I call my boss, "tu"", parce que il ny a aucun terme juste en anglais pour le traduire.  C'est mon avis.

De plus, je suis d'accord que la question de tutoyer et vouvoyer est beaucoup plus compliquée que texasweed a dit.  Il faut accepter que les français aiment beaucoup ces enfants!  Ce n'est pas  une question de respect simple.


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## polaire

texasweed said:
			
		

> Very interesting, Lyrwriter. Wish we saw you more around here.
> When told that "anglophones se tutoient" I always correct frenchies with "non, ils se vouvoient". Is that wrong then ? I've always assumed it came from the colonization time, *Victorian times* when wives said "vous" to their husband, and children to their parents. Wrong concept ? (That's really a question I'm asking here !)
> In any case, the fact of "tutoyer" a child as we do a dog *irks me*. Are they not worthy of respect simply because they're young ? What of Mozart at age 3 ? I have 13 and 16 year old students I insisted upon "vouvoyer" - THEY corrected me, and all I could say was "ok, si vous me tutoyez aussi"... Heck, every great mind was once a child. Past age 11, it gives me a hard time ! *Is that a French way of putting kids down, let them know adults are superior to them, that parents are their "boss" rather than their guide ? Ca m'est insupportable !*
> 
> "On a first-name basis" is the only possible translation, but doesn't convey the derogatory meaning I *so resent* (as concerns children.)


Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but to an American who lives in an area where people are obnoxiously child-centered, it's funny.


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## linguist786

Seems like my suggestion's just been ignored 

I think it's the best one really - I even saw it translated like that in a book.


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## emma42

Oh, Linguist! Your translation is good, à mon avis, but _I _prefer _mine._ Obviously, _you _prefer _yours _because it's yours!

Well, if you've seen it in a book it must be right!


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## polaire

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Seems like my suggestion's just been ignored
> 
> I think it's the best one really - I even saw it translated like that in a book.


I thought yours was fine, too.  The only one that seemed to me to be not that helpful was "We're on a first-name basis."  In America, as I was saying, that means next to nothing.


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## linguist786

Personally, I don't think "to be on first name basis" is quite the same thing.

For example, in Gujarati, you could call somebody by their first name but you would still have to "vouvoyer" them.


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## polaire

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Personally, I don't think "to be on first name basis" is quite the same thing.
> 
> For example, in Gujarati, you could call somebody by their first name but you would still have to "vouvoyer" them.


I think that in the U.S. "to be on a first-name basis" used to convey a certain sense of intimacy, equivalent to being able to use "tu."


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## Cath.S.

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Personally, I don't think "to be on first name basis" is quite the same thing.
> 
> For example, in Gujarati, you could call somebody by their first name but you would still have to "vouvoyer" them.


I agree it would not be the same thing in French either, for instance a doctor might call you by your first name and still say _vous_ to you.

But it _might_ be an equivalent in languages that _do not_ have that tu/vous distinction.


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## polaire

egueule said:
			
		

> I agree it would not be the same thing in French either, for instance a doctor might call you by your first name and still say _vous_ to you.
> 
> But it _might_ be an equivalent in languages that _do not_ have that tu/vous distinction.


This is an interesting matter of individual taste.  I once had a discussion with an American woman who said she hated it when doctors called her "Ms. Brown."  She always asks them to call her by her first name and gets angry when they refuse to do as she requests.  I told her that I wasn't at all offended by it; I assumed they considered it part of professional decorum.  When you consider how embarrassing or awkward certain medical examinations can be, the distance is nice, in my opinion.

Besides, whether s/he calls you by your first name or addresses you as "Mr." or "Ms." a patient can tell whether a doctor cares.


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## Auryn

texasweed said:
			
		

> In any case, the fact of "tutoyer" a child as we do a dog *irks me*. Are they not worthy of respect simply because they're young ? What of Mozart at age 3 ? I have 13 and 16 year old students I insisted upon "vouvoyer" - THEY corrected me, and all I could say was "ok, si vous me tutoyez aussi"... Heck, every great mind was once a child. Past age 11, it gives me a hard time ! Is that a French way of putting kids down, let them know adults are superior to them, that parents are their "boss" rather than their *guide* ? Ca m'est insupportable !



Don't forget that _vouvoyer_ a child can also be a way to put them down! Read the Comtesse de Ségur's children's books (written in the late 19th century) where children who are normally _tutoyés_ are scolded using the _vous_ form. It's like a slap in the face. 

Saying _vous_ to someone (especially a child) when you know them well enough to call them _tu_ sounds either absurdly formal or cold and distant, like you don't want to be friends. Having said that, teenagers are usually_ vouvoyés_ by teachers from the age of 11 so  I don't quite understand why your students weren't happy with it.


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## polaire

Auryn said:
			
		

> Don't forget that _vouvoyer_ a child can also be a way to put them down! Read the Comtesse de Ségur's children's books (written in the late 19th century) where children who are normally _tutoyés_ are scolded using the _vous_ form. It's like a slap in the face.
> 
> Saying _vous_ to someone (especially a child) when you know them well enough to call them _tu_ sounds either absurdly formal or cold and distant, like you don't want to be friends. Having said that, teenagers are usually_ vouvoyés_ by teachers from the age of 11 so  I don't quite understand why your students weren't happy with it.


It's clearly partly a matter of context.  I've seen French movies where a husband, an aristocrat, used "vous" with his wife.  The couple wasn't having marital problems.


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## Auryn

polaire said:
			
		

> It's clearly partly a matter of context.  I've seen French movies where a husband, an aristocrat, used "vous" with his wife.  The couple wasn't having marital problems.



Nope, they were  just being absurdly formal


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## polaire

Auryn said:
			
		

> Nope, they were  just being absurdly formal


That's what I figured.  It was odd, however, after convincing myself that only a foreigner would say "Je vous aime" instead of "Je t'aime" to hear the former.


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## texasweed

Auryn said:
			
		

> Don't forget that _vouvoyer_ a child can also be a way to put them down! Read the Comtesse de Ségur's children's books (written in the late 19th century) where children who are normally _tutoyés_ are scolded using the _vous_ form. It's like a slap in the face.


Sheesh, I didn't know it could actually be offensive !  

Someone I worked for over many months, (doing translations,) emailing back and forth daily, had friendly exchanges over the phone with, but only met once (pour signer un contrat de confidentialité) recently asked me "On peut se tutoyer ?". I hmmmmed and erged and my hesitation was so obvious, he said "Mais j'ai l'impression de t'avoir toujours connue !" I kept on hhhhmmmming then used in any sentence tu and vous, having a hard time with it ! Then he said "Ok, laissez tomber, c'est pas grave." Do I understand from what you're all saying here that I was being *extremely impolite* ??? <Sigh> It started as a business exchange and ended in friendly exchanges with both him and his wife... I love those people ! Please tell me I didn't screw it !


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## timpeac

texasweed said:
			
		

> It started as a business exchange and ended in friendly exchanges with both him and his wife... I love those people ! Please tell me I didn't screw it !


But why didn't you want to tutoy him then? Those sound like exactly the kind of circumstances in which business vous turns to tu.


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## carolineR

Auryn said:
			
		

> Having said that, teenagers are usually_ vouvoyés_ by teachers from the age of 11.


Out of experience I would say that this is not necessarily true, and it very much depends on teachers : some "tutoient" their pupils, others "voussoient" them. In other words, some want to give their pupils the feeling they are liked, others try to keep them at a distance. 
Which works better is another story...


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## calembourde

polaire said:
			
		

> That's what I figured.  It was odd, however, after convincing myself that only a foreigner would say "Je vous aime" instead of "Je t'aime" to hear the former.



One of the kids said that to the nanny in the French translation of the American TV show 'The Nanny' 

I recognise texasweed's situation... I remember when I visited Germany, I hadn't really learnt the equivalent of 'tu' in German, because I assumed that I wouldn't know anybody well enough to use it, and I thought that there could be no harm in being too polite and respectful. But it turned out that I had to use the informal form with my friend's friends and they would be offended if I didn't. So you can offend people by being not 'polite' enough and you can offend them by being too polite. Unfortunately that means you always have to know which one is appropriate, because you can't just use 'vous' as a catch-all thinking that it's polite and respectful and therefore works for all situations.

As for the original question, I agree with timpeac's suggestion of simply saying you use 'tu', or if the person doesn't know what that means, then say you're 'on friendly terms' with the boss. It's not really a translation of words so much as a translation of culture, and I think you pretty much have to lose something in the translation.


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## emma42

texasweed, I can't understand why you didn't want "tutoyer" him either.  I can't understand how you would see it as disrespectful if he was inviting you to use "tu".


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## texasweed

emma42 said:
			
		

> texasweed, I can't understand why you didn't want "tutoyer" him either. I can't understand how you would see it as disrespectful if he was inviting you to use "tu".


Fact is, I have highest regards for those people. Simply put, I really *love them*, what they do, how they struggle with launching a fabulous Website, their attempt to make ends meet until the Site gets going, etc. Hard-working people I so highly respect/value that the "tu" form doesn't come easily for me. My question was : Was it *disrespectful* of me to hesitate (or *refuse*) to "tutoyer" them ??? *I need to know* as apologies would be in order, should it be the case  
Why, oh why, would I feel ok tutoyant his wife whom I've never met while it bothers me to say "tu" to him whom I've met ? If I only could understand myself !  
He asked me about letter-endings, all I could say was "au point ou on en est, send me hugs!" Yet I still have a hard time with "tutoiement". A L'AIDE ! I really wanna know whether this was "*impoli de ma part*" or acceptable ! (Note that their English is excellent and he understood that the "vous" being so close to "you", he grasped my hesitation.)


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## carolineR

*"impoli de votre part"* or not, what about simply sorting things out with them? You'll be on the safe side...


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## la_cavalière

I had a friend from Paris (in his late-20s at the time) who worked in I.T. He told me he felt insulted if someone used "vous" with him -- even if they had never met before. He told me that using "tu" implies friendliness, and using "vous" means you prefer to keep your distance.


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## texasweed

carolineR said:
			
		

> *"impoli de votre part"* or not, what about simply sorting things out with them? You'll be on the safe side...


I did, As they speak English, though they are not fluent, they're *really *good. They grasped that "vous" being so close to "you" I had a hard time with it. 
But PLEASE, can someone let me know if that could have been perceived as *impolite, or even extremely rude *vue the context given  
Dang, I really appreciate those people and this *really* bothers me !
I'm open to all answers, just give away


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## texasweed

la_cavalière said:
			
		

> I had a friend from Paris (in his late-20s at the time) who worked in I.T. He told me he felt insulted if someone used "vous" with him -- even if they had never met before. He told me that using "tu" implies friendliness, and using "vous" means you prefer to keep your distance.


Dannnng ! I don't wish to keep any "distance" with these ppl. Yet it formerly was a business deal.... They still need me to do freebie translations, yet the friendship *is* established.  HEEELP ! I realy care for them ! Yet it's still business. Then some.... THAT'S the problem !   Did I screw it up or not   Heck, they' re cool and understanding, so in that context.. Go figure ! I'd have (now) *almost *no problem with the "tu" form, I just wanna know if my former hesitation was offensive or not, as apologies would be required if yes.... A L' AAAAIIIIDE !


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## timpeac

Texasweed - would you like me to split off your particular query to a new thread? It might get greater readership than at the end of this long thread.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

J'avoue que c'est rare de refuser le tutoiement quand on le demande. Mais pourquoi pas si ça ne te vient pas naturellement ? Explique-leur simplement ce sentiment là pour éviter de les froisser. Il ne faut pas te forcer.


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## la_cavalière

Hi Texasweed,

I am not French, but if I asked someone if we could use "tu" (or in English, if I asked someone if we could call each other by our first names), and the other person said no, my feelings would be hurt. Wouldn't yours?


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## texasweed

timpeac said:
			
		

> Texasweed - would you like me to split off your particular query to a new thread? It might get greater readership than at the end of this long thread.


Thanks a lot, *TIM*, but I don't think it's necessary. Any future searches will get a thread-link clear enough from this one. Don't you think ?

Thanks,* la cavaliere*, I guess asking for forgiveness is in order then...
End of my posts on this subject. Darn ! i DID screw up !


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## calembourde

Texasweed, I think that in some situations it's simply a personal preference, one person in his late 20s might be offended by being called _vous_, another might be offended at being called _tu_ straight away. Although, while it can be a grey area when you meet someone for the first time, I suppose most people would have the same feelings if they asked to _tutoyer_ and you refused.

Still, I think the only way you can find out whether you offended these people would be to ask them. You should explain what you said here, about how much you respect them, and that's why you wanted to continue using _vous_.


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## emma42

Texasweed, don't be so hard on yourself.  You did not mean to cause offence.  Just send an email and explain that you were not quite au fait with all the usages of "tu" and that you are so sorry if you caused offence and that you would be happy to use "tu" from now on, as you really value these people's friendship.


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## la_cavalière

emma42 said:
			
		

> Texasweed, don't be so hard on yourself. You did not mean to cause offence. Just send an email and explain that you were not quite au fait with all the usages of "tu" and that you are so sorry if you caused offence and that you would be happy to use "tu" from now on, as you really value these people's friendship.


 
I agree. I also am sure that they will understand that your preference for "vous" was due to your professional respect for them.


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## texasweed

I did better and sent them a direct link to this thread !


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## polaire

texasweed said:
			
		

> I did, As they speak English, though they are not fluent, they're *really *good. They grasped that "vous" being so close to "you" I had a hard time with it.
> But PLEASE, can someone let me know if that could have been perceived as *impolite, or even extremely rude *vue the context given
> Dang, I really appreciate those people and this *really* bothers me !
> I'm open to all answers, just give away


I can't imagine that sensible, sensitive people would be offended.  Incidentally, in response to someone else's post, I think that if you ask someone "On se tutoie?"  you have to be prepared that they might answer no.  It also may not be personal.  They may just prefer a certain level of formality, which is not always the same thing as maintaining distance.

Ultimately, actions do speak louder than words.


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## texasweed

OUF ! Thank you !


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## polaire

texasweed said:
			
		

> OUF ! Thank you !


It's interesting that this is hard even for a French person.  I'd read that French people are much better (because they have more practice) than foreigners at avoiding awkward situations with "tu" or "vous."  I was told they usually let the other person make the blunder.   Personally, this doesn't sound like that a big a deal.  Not if you have a good rapport.  I hope you are able to smooth things out.


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## geve

texasweed said:
			
		

> Why, oh why, would I feel ok tutoyant his wife whom I've never met while it bothers me to say "tu" to him whom I've met ? If I only could understand myself !


This might be the key: it can be very hard (even for a native) to change from "vous" to "tu" with someone. You feel comfortable just the way it is, and changing your habits seems awkward.

There are people with whom I feel that using the "tu" form would not reflect the respect I have for them -even if they are tutoying me. I just can't spit it out! And then there are people with whom I feel that using the "vous" form would not reflect the respect I have for them. This is not an easy issue for natives either!


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## Auryn

carolineR said:
			
		

> Out of experience I would say that this is not necessarily true, and it very much depends on teachers : some "tutoient" their pupils, others "voussoient" them. In other words, some want to give their pupils the feeling they are liked, others try to keep them at a distance.
> Which works better is another story...


Really? I went to three different secondary schools but none of my teachers ever used 'tu' with pupils. They obviously didn't care about our feelings...*sob*

On the other hand, I did like being called 'vous'. It made me feel all grown-up


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## Auryn

texasweed said:
			
		

> Why, oh why, would I feel ok tutoyant his wife whom I've never met while it bothers me to say "tu" to him whom I've met ? If I only could understand myself !


Maybe you respect his wife less than you respect him


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## CARNESECCHI

Hello,
My opinion :
Tricky question. I always say that english speakers have one less big relationship problem.
I use "tu" when I am on familiar terms with someone, should I use his first or last name

For formal terms :
"Monsieur Dupond, puis-je vous voir ?" (The boss of the boss of my boss, or someone I don't know)
"Dupond, je peux vous voir ?" (The boss of my boss, someone I know, but not on familiar terms)
"Pierre, je peux vous voir ?" (Someone close to me, maybe I know well, but the agreement is that we say "vous")

On familiar terms
_Never with Monsieur ..._
"Dupond, je peux te voir ?" - a colleague, a close subordinate.
"Pierre, je peux te voir ?" - My boss, someone I know well enough and with whom I'm in familiar terms, family (not my mother-in -law, though I like ker very much).


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## emma42

Chapeau, Carnes.  Très éclaircissant/éclairant (?) et bien expliqué.


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## polaire

CARNESECCHI said:
			
		

> Hello,
> My opinion :
> Tricky question. *I always say that english speakers have one less big relationship problem.  *
> I use "tu" when I am on familiar terms with someone, should I use his first or last name
> 
> For formal terms :
> "Monsieur Dupond, puis-je vous voir ?" (The boss of the boss of my boss, or someone I don't know)
> "Dupond, je peux vous voir ?" (The boss of my boss, someone I know, but not on familiar terms)
> "Pierre, je peux vous voir ?" (Someone close to me, maybe I know well, but the agreement is that we say "vous")
> 
> On familiar terms
> _Never with Monsieur ..._
> "Dupond, je peux te voir ?" - a colleague, a close subordinate.
> "Pierre, je peux te voir ?" - My boss, someone I know well enough and with whom I'm in familiar terms, family (not my mother-in -law, though I like ker very much).


We can get along with "vous" in most situations.  Most French people probably think we don't know any better. 

Your system makes sense to me.


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## calembourde

CARNESECCHI said:
			
		

> Tricky question. I always say that english speakers have one less big relationship problem.



One *fewer* relationship problem, since a relationship problem is a discrete unit rather than a continuous quantity... though few natives get that right. 

It's all in the way you look at it... you could say that English speakers have one more relationship problem, as there is no way to express the difference in levels of familiarity.


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## CARNESECCHI

hello,


			
				calembourde said:
			
		

> One *fewer* relationship problem, since a relationship problem is a discrete unit rather than a continuous quantity... though few natives get that right. .


I understand your point and it's clear you are right. But maybe I'm not wrong : Isn't less was also for a quantity ? I had a look in Internet, and I foud more "one less" than "one fewer". Is it the formal way is "fewer" and the casual way is "less" ? But I need to correct my post if I'm wrong.

You know what ? Since it's a question that often rises, I'll create a thread with this question.

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

PS : Imagine, your 3rd level boss comes to your plant for the fisrt time, he knows you very well from your files (because you are a very efficient (wo)man in your domain). No problem, you say "vous" and "monsieur", even if he welcomes you with "tu". But you meet him again, and again. Some day, question comes to your mind : you feel that "vous" is getting awkward, and that you need to switch to "tu". But when and how ? The rules tells that you should wait for a signal from him, but it doesn't come. Did you miss it and he cannot renew his signal because he thinks you want stay at "vous" and you are in a deadlock situation ? Arrrrghh.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Je crois que je "glisse" souvent du vous au tu après un moment, sans même bien m'en rendre compte. Ca fait souvent sourire l'autre au moment où il s'en aperçoit. A ce moment, il pourra dire quelque chose comme "ah bon, on se tutoie maintenant ? D'accord !" avec un grand sourire la plupart du temps.
Mais le "problème" du passage du vous au tu est souvent plus délicat chez les personnes plus âgées (la génération de mes parents) qui se posent justement la question du "respect" qui pourtant d'après moi ne s'évanouit nullement avec le tutoiement. 

(n'en déplaise à Mickaël, je ne suis pas encore assez vieille !  )


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## CARNESECCHI

Not likely, but not impossible : 

When Agnès (Bonjour Agnès!!! ) writes it's "you", and I can easily imagine some good reasons, and I answer "tu" (though I have great respect) because I use "tu" all the time here.
Maybe I just don't realise that she hates me for that and I should better switch !!

Maybe there is someone here that I know, to whom I always say "tu" here and "vous" in everyday life, and he knows my name and he laughs inside when I talk to him with my "vous".
Hey! You, if it's true, you must tell me !


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## timpeac

CARNESECCHI said:
			
		

> PS : Imagine, your 3rd level boss comes to your plant for the fisrt time, he knows you very well from your files (because you are a very efficient (wo)man in your domain). No problem, you say "vous" and "monsieur", even if he welcomes you with "tu". But you meet him again, and again. Some day, question comes to your mind : you feel that "vous" is getting awkward, and that you need to switch to "tu". But when and how ? The rules tells that you should wait for a signal from him, but it doesn't come. Did you miss it and he cannot renew his signal because he thinks you want stay at "vous" and you are in a deadlock situation ? Arrrrghh.


Wow, I didn't know with adults (in the modern world I mean) you might have a situation where one calls one "tu" and the other "vous". In such a situation, what signal could the tutoyeur give that the other may know they can use "tu"? I suppose he can't see that the other has moved from "vous" to "tu" because they already use "tu"!!


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## CARNESECCHI

timpeac said:
			
		

> Wow, I didn't know with adults (in the modern world I mean) you might have a situation where one calls one "tu" and the other "vous". In such a situation, what signal could the tutoyeur give that the other may know they can use "tu"? I suppose he can't see that the other has moved from "vous" to "tu" because they already use "tu"!!


 
It's a real situation, it's mine ! My boss*3 spent several months in the USA, in an university, for high level business training. In fact, once, in a meeting he said two words about "tutoiement" but I did not take it for me. Now, I'm expecting something like "on se dit tu", or "on se tutoie", but I think it'll not come. Maybe I'll switch some day and he will not mind, but it's not easy!

An other real case : In a start project meeting.
(s'il y en a qui y travaillent, ils reconnaîtront )
Le chef de projet : "Petit tour de table! Je suis Gérard  xxxx, ingénieur à ....
- André yyyyy, technicien au ...
- Luc c..., ingénieur en ....
-----------------
- Monsieur ttt, monteur à ...
- (moi, bêtement) pardon, je n'ai pas pu noter ton prénom !
- (Le chef de projet) C'est Monsieur tttt !
Pan sur les doigts ! En tant qu'ingénieur, je peux appeller les ingénieurs et cadres par leur prénom et les tutoyer, idem pour les techniciens, mais l'ouvrier de l'équipe, c'est Monsieur ! Et vous! Et c'était en 1992!!!


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## timpeac

Haha, merci Luc - je t'ai bien cru !! Ma question était juste pour savoir ce à quoi on s'attendrait comme indication dans une telle situation - qu'on te le propose tout simplement, il semble.


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