# I don't blame you/can't say that[as] I blame you



## rupertbrooke

This & similar phrases are actually a form of litosis/meiosis, consisting of an understatement in which an affirmative is expressed by negating its opposite, as in 'This is no small problem' [=this is a big problem]. It is a very common filler in English. Examples are (from the Spanish forum):-
"He told me I was fat so I shouted at him.
Can't say (as/that) I blame you."


"I had no money so I avoided him.
Can't say I blame you."


"I think I'm going to take the day off today because I'm not feeling well."
"Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't  go to work either."

Seni suçlayamam or seni suçlamıyorum, I know, are used but they are too literal to be in any sense idiomatic.


----------



## Gemmenita

Merhaba,
Vallahi, ben ki sorundan  hiçbir şey anlamadım.
Can you develop more or say what do you want to know exactly? 
To say "to blame" in turkish?
If it is your question: as far as I know it is _suçlamak_ and it is normal to use it, unless you mean other thing. 
(if by _blame_ you mean other idea, please develop it.)
I hope our other friends get exactly what you want and could reply better!


----------



## rupertbrooke

"I don't blame you" in English means roughly " I agree with what you are saying". Here is a typical example of the way we use the phrase:-
"My wife was angry with me so I shouted at her!" 
"I don't blame you!" 
It does not really mean the same as "I do not find fault with you": it is similar in meaning to the Turkish 'sana katılıyorum' but not quite. Perhaps 'Seni suçladığımı söyleyemem' is nearer but seems too wordy & a shade too formal. It is a filler phrase meaning 'I can understand why you did something & I sympathise with you shouting at your wife.'


----------



## Lanaya

Hi,

I thought it could be translated as "Haksız da sayılmazsın." Hope it helps.


----------



## rupertbrooke

Yes that's very near. Is haksız da değil similar? Thank you.


----------



## Lanaya

Yeah,
"Haksız da sayılmazsın."
"Haksız da değilsin."
Those mean the same thing, so they both can be used.


----------



## Rallino

You can also use _değil_ alongside the verb.
_Seni suçluyor değilim._

This has the same meaning as _seni suçlamıyorum_, but there is a nuance that I think could be the counterpart of the English _I can't say that…_ Just my two cents.


----------



## Reverence

All these examples could be translated word for word into Turkish and a Turkish reader would perfectly understand what's going on there. Problem is, the use of litotic statements is fairly limited in Turkish. In other words, we don't quite talk like that.

- Film nasıldı? (How was the movie?)
- Hiç de fena değildi. Neden o kadar eleştirmişler, anlamadım. (Not bad at all. Why it was so badly criticized, I have no clue.)

- Burada yaptığı işi küçümseme. Hiç de basit bir iş değil. (Don't underestimate the work she's doing here. It's no easy job at all.)

Note in the examples that we're still negating the opposites, but we're consistently following a pattern by using "hiç de değil" (not at all) and reacting to an assertion in the opposite direction. Which, as far as I can tell, is the only case where we talk this way. We don't negate the contrary to emphasize; it's not very Turkish.

To further drive the point home, I believe there was a thread around here somewhere, about the Turkish meaning of "understatement"; if I remember correctly, no one was able to come up with anything satisfactory. A couple of suggestions have been made, namely "azımsama" and "arıksama", but I bet six out of ten Turks have never even heard the words, never mind using them. Downplaying stuff is just not our way.

Those dialogues at the top would pretty much go the way below:

- Bana "Şişmansın" dedi, ben de bağırdım ona.
- Eh, ben olsam, ben de bağırırdım. (Well, I'd shout, too, if it were me.)

- Param yoktu, o yüzden uzak durdum ondan.
- Ben de uzak dururdum. (I'd steer clear of him, too.)

- Herhalde bugün işe gitmeyeceğim; kendimi iyi hissetmiyorum.
- Bu vaziyette, ben de gitmezdim. (In this state, I wouldn't go, either.)


----------



## rupertbrooke

I couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive & complete an answer. The examples Reverence has supplied cover all the points I was trying to raise. He has highlighted the difficulties all beginners face, viz. to get inside the mind of a native speaker & express a sentiment in a way that would come naturally to such a speaker rather than rely on a strained & artificial equivalent.
The comments about 'understatement' in Turkish again I could never know until my attention had been drawn to it. It is interesting to note that the dictionary lists several equivalents ranging from tefrit to (anlatmaya) yetersiz kalan ifade. 
Litotes is translated as arıkşayıs. I think that fewer than one out of ten has heard the term 'litotes', let alone knows what it means. 
In my home town if anyone used a word that sounded scholarly or incomprehensible, the inevitable reply was 'I had one of them for Christmas/for tea!' Now that would be an interesting new thread: is there a Turkish phrase or form of words that is an answer to someone who makes a comment or uses a word outside the comprehension of sıradan insan?


----------



## Reverence

Well, it's a golden rule in translation business that happens to be forgotten and breached all the time: Put down that dictionary and try to come up with what a native speaker would say in that particular instance. The more the translator is knowledgeable about the culture and lifestyle of native speakers, the more successful the translation. That's why most translators in my circle run after English-to-Turkish jobs instead of the other way 'round. Unless they're up for the challenge, that is.

Speaking of breached rules, I don't really mean to add one more to the list, but a rather funny reaction to sesquipedalianism in Turkish is, "O nedir ya? Yenir mi?" (What on Earth is it? Edible?)


----------



## rupertbrooke

From my experience of Reverence's replies he is up to the bilingual challenge both ways. Here is the use of the word sesquipedalianism, a word worth learning and derived from the Latin sesquipedalis which means 'measuring forty five centimetres' first used literally & later to words. An 1830 reference to the word reads thus:- : “The fine old fellow,” as a Northern contemporary of ours patronizingly calls him, certainly rolled out his sesquipedalians with a majesty previously unknown, and gave a fine organ-like swell to his full-blow periods--a marvellous use of every English word. There is a word which itself is meant to comment on sesquipedalisism, namely hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian, coined in 1979. To which I now can reply with some confidence: "O nedir ya? Yenir mi?"


----------



## Gemmenita

rupertbrooke said:


> "I don't blame you" in English means roughly " I agree with what you are saying". Here is a typical example of the way we use the phrase:-
> "My wife was angry with me so I shouted at her!"
> "I don't blame you!"
> It does not really mean the same as "I do not find fault with you": it is similar in meaning to the Turkish 'sana katılıyorum' but not quite. Perhaps 'Seni suçladığımı söyleyemem' is nearer but seems too wordy & a shade too formal. It is a filler phrase meaning 'I can understand why you did something & I sympathise with you shouting at your wife.'



Merhaba rupertbrooke,  
Now I get what you mean. 
You can also say: "Sana hak veriyorum."


----------



## Reverence

Why, thank you; that's way more kindness there than I deserve. Also thanks for adding the word _hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian _to my vocabulary. There's got to be some degree of...hangover or something involved in the process of inventing the word, as it kind of sounds both...hip and monstrous.

Edible or no, I'm not coming anywhere near that.


----------



## rupertbrooke

Thanks to Chaton.marchande for another suggestion, which seems in meaning similar to the English idiom 'to give someone their due' & to Reverence for the amusing aside given above.
 However, to avoid the accusation of hyperpolysyllabicsesquipedalianism [söz uzunluğu] & from an earnest & sincere desire not to cause in any member of the forum hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia [uzun kelime fobisi]  or dyspepsia [sindirim güçlüğü] in those who try to digest the indigestible, I conclude with gratitude for all suggestions. If some find this entry unintelligible, I can't say as I blame you.....

But the word Muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştiriveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesine is, in manageable portions, enough food for the rest of my life.


----------

