# Fregarsene



## JasonNPato

Non posso trovare questa parole in il dizionario e sono avendo problemi a tradurlo. Potete aiutarmi, per favore?

fregartene-

ed in una sentenza: E' tutto prepagato, stampato e accreditato a noi, ma come fai a non accorgerti, fragartene, andare via...


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## Jana337

Hi Jason, 

welcome to the forum.
You should have searched for the infinitive form, which is fregar*se*ne.

The meaning is: not to care about, not to give a damn.

Jana


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## JasonNPato

Grazie Jana! That helps!


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## JasonNPato

so is "fregarsene" an inappropriate word? Is it more equilavent to "to not care" or to "to not give a damn".

and using "fregarsene" - How would I say "I don't give a damn" -- me ne frego???

I guess what I'm asking is this: Should I say "Me ne frego." or is there a more polite way to state my apathy?


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## Luc4

JasonNPato said:
			
		

> so is "fregarsene" an inappropriate word? Is it more equilavent to "to not care" or to "to not give a damn".
> 
> and using "fregarsene" - How would I say "I don't give a damn" -- me ne frego???
> 
> I guess what I'm asking is this: Should I say "Me ne frego." or is there a more polite way to state my apathy?



"Me ne frego" is something like slang. It's not polite. Very common but unpolite. I think it's more similar to "I don't give a damn".
"To not care" is polite, so you could say it in italian "non mi interessa" or "non mi importa".


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## JasonNPato

I thought so...thanks.


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## ivanbcn

You could hear

"Non me ne frega niente"
or
"Non me ne importa niente" (I don't care at all)


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## Emily Reigh

How do you say that he doesn't give a damn? 
Non gliene frega? 
Why "Chi se ne frega?" (reflexive)
but "non gliene frega" (indirect object)?

What is the exact translation of "me ne fregO"? (verb first person)
How does this differ from "me ne fregA"? (verb third person)

If this is posted forgive me.

Thanks.


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## Jana337

Emily Reigh said:
			
		

> How do you say that he doesn't give a damn?
> Non gliene frega?
> Why "Chi se ne frega?" (reflexive)
> but "non gliene frega" (indirect object)?
> 
> What is the exact translation of "me ne fregO"? (verb first person)
> How does this differ from "me ne fregA"? (verb third person)
> 
> If this is posted forgive me.
> 
> Thanks.


Hi Emily,

The verb is fregarsene and "se" is reflexive. There is no place for the indirect object.
Non me ne frego
non te ne freghi
non se ne frega
non ce ne freghiamo
non ve ne fregate
non se ne fregano

fregarsene - to give a damn  (what exactly do you want to know? You seem to be aware of the meaning)

me ne frego - first person
me ne frega - wrong because me is reflexive and it has to coincide with the person of the verb
Third person is se ne frega.

Jana


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## curon

Jana337 said:
			
		

> me ne frega - wrong
> 
> Jana


 
I understand that me ne frega is wrong grammatically, but I've heard it so many times in films. I don't know how to put two quotes in a post, but someone else from italy said a few posts ago that "Non me ne frega" can be heard there. Is this just bad grammar that has slipped into popular usage, or is there another explanation?


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## Willi

curon said:
			
		

> I understand that me ne frega is wrong grammatically, but I've heard it so many times in films. I don't know how to put two quotes in a post, but someone else from italy said a few posts ago that "Non me ne frega" can be heard there. Is this just bad grammar that has slipped into popular usage, or is there another explanation?


 
It's not wrong, it's another form of the verb
me ne frego < fregar*sene*
me ne frega < fregar*e*

BTW *fregare* has also another meaning: *rubare*, but this is not the case


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## moodywop

Willi said:
			
		

> It's not wrong, it's another form of the verb
> me ne frego < fregar*sene*
> me ne frega < fregar*e*
> 
> BTW *fregare* has also another meaning: *rubare*, but this is not the case


 
Hi Willi

Isn't _me ne frega _also from _fregarsene? _

_De Mauro _gives plenty of examples for _fregarsene, _which Curon may find useful:


fre|gàr|se|ne
pop., non darsi pensiero, non preoccuparsi: _se ne frega degli amici_, _degli altri_; _fregatene delle loro critiche!_ | _me ne frego!_, motto del movimento fascista; _e chi se ne frega?_, domanda retorica che esprime la più assoluta indifferenza per qcs.; _non me ne frega niente!_, non me ne importa niente, la cosa mi è indifferente; _e che te ne frega?_, che te ne importa?

By the way there's also _fregarsi _as in _si è fregato con le sue (stesse) mani:_

fre|gàr|si
2 v.pronom.intr., procurare a se stesso un danno: _ha rifiutato un’offerta molto vantaggiosa: si è fregato con le sue mani_

Curon, how would you say that in English?


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## Willi

moodywop said:
			
		

> Hi Willi
> 
> Isn't _me ne frega _also from _fregarsene? _


 
I don't think so, if it were _fregarsene_ it would be as Jana said. I think it is so:
frega = third pers.
me = to me (mi)
ne = indirect object
But I will check.
It's funny, but since I wrote in this forum I'm learning almost more about my own language than about English!  

BTW fregarsene might be very tricky for non natives, beause it can be both negative or positive and has the same meaning:
non me ne frega = I don't give a damn
me ne frega = I don't give a damn, but also I care about it
It' s a bit puzzling, isn't it?


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## curon

Moodywop - your pupils are lucky to have you as a teacher. Your examples are always very clear and illuminating. Complimenti 




			
				moodywop said:
			
		

> 2 v.pronom.intr., procurare a se stesso un danno: _ha rifiutato un’offerta molto vantaggiosa: si è fregato con le sue mani_
> 
> Curon, how would you say that in English?


 
MMm ......I'll have to give this some thought. Nothing comes to mind immediately.


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## You little ripper!

Would _did himself a disservice_ fit in there?


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## moodywop

Willi said:
			
		

> .
> It's funny, but since I wrote in this forum I'm learning almost more about my own language than about English!


 
Hai ragione. E' proprio vero. D'altra parte vedo che è lo stesso per i madrelingua che insegnano inglese. All'inizio hanno difficoltà a spiegare strutture che usano automaticamente nella loro lingua. Sono però avvantaggiati rispetto a noi perché hanno a disposizione un'infinità di _learner's dictionaries _e _learners' grammars _che non esistono per l'italiano.



> BTW fregarsene might be very tricky for non natives, beause it can be both negative or positive and has the same meaning:
> non me ne frega = I don't give a damn
> me ne frega = I don't give a damn, but also I care about it
> It' s a bit puzzling, isn't it?


 
Yes it is puzzling. I think that's what was confusing Curon.

The other confusing thing is that _me ne frego _has a personal subject(_io_) whereas _non me ne frega _has an impersonal subject, a bit like _I don't care _vs _it doesn't matter to me _


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## You little ripper!

> Originally Posted by *moodywop*
> _2 v.pronom.intr., procurare a se stesso un danno: ha rifiutato un’offerta molto vantaggiosa: si è fregato con le sue mani
> 
> Curon, how would you say that in English?_


Apart from _do yourself a disservice_, you could probably say _shoot yourself in the foot,_ which means to do something that damages you ambition, career etc.


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## Willi

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Apart from _do yourself a disservice_, you could probably say _shoot yourself in the foot,_ which means to do something that damages you ambition, career etc.


 
I found it in a book I was translating! We italians are more peasant, we say _Darsi la zappa sui piedi _


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## You little ripper!

Willi said:
			
		

> I found it in a book I was translating! We italians are more peasant, we say _Darsi la zappa sui piedi _


Guns are obviously not as readily available in Italy as they are in English speaking countries.   I hadn't heard that expression before.  Definitely a much more gentle one than the English version.


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## Emily Reigh

Back to fregarsene, let me see if I can summarize and if someone can tell me if I have it right.

1. "non me ne frega" and "me ne frega." can both mean "I don't care about it / I don't give a damn about it."  "Me ne frega" can also indicate the opposite idea (I care, mi importa).  

2. The dictionaries use the reflexive verb: fregarsene. The proper conjugation of this verb is me ne fregO, te ne freghi, se ne frega, as in the Mussolini motto. It is also commonly said "Chi se ne frega?" However, this is not the most commonly used colloquial form of the phrase.

3. The most commonly used colloquial form of the phrase is another idiomatic use fregare + ido (me, te, glie) + do (ne) to say I don't care about it (impersonal). A rough literal translation could be: It doesn't take / steal anything from me/you/him. 
I don't care about it - Non me ne frega.
You don't care about it - non te ne frega.
He doesn't care about it - non gliene frega.

4. It is appropriate to say both "Non se ne frega", "se ne frega", "non gliene frega", and "gliene frega" to say he doesn't care. (This was my real question from the beginning. I can look up and understand fregarsene reflexive but I can't figure out why the heck italians also say "non gliene frega". I was saying non "se ne frega" and thought something was wrong with it so I just stopped saying anything!)

Do I have it straight? I have been obsessed with this phrase and have been embarassed to admit to my Italian friends that I don't know how to use it in the third person. You guys are amazing! I never asked these questions because I thought that I would annoy some poor native speaker endlessley with minutia...

Thanks for responding!


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## Emily Reigh

How's this for a related and violent idiomatic expression:

Cut off your nose to spite your face.

Do you have a version in Italian?


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## Willi

Emily Reigh said:
			
		

> Back to fregarsene, let me see if I can summarize and if someone can tell me if I have it right.
> 
> 1. There is no difference between "non me ne frega" and "me ne frega." They both mean "I don't care about it / I don't give a damn about it." There is no way to use this expression to represent the opposite idea (I care, mi importa.)
> 
> 2. The dictionaries use the proper reflexive verb: fregarsene. The proper conjugation of this verb is me ne fregO, te ne freghi, se ne frega, as in the Mussolini motto. It is also commonly said "Chi se ne frega?" However, this is not the most commonly used colloquial form of the phrase.
> 
> 3. The most commonly used colloquial form of the phrase is another idiomatic use fregare + ido (me, te, glie) + do (ne) to say I don't care about it (impersonal). A rough literal translation could be: It doesn't take / steal anything from me/you/him.
> I don't care about it - Non me ne frega.
> You don't care about it - non te ne frega.
> He doesn't care about it - non gliene frega.
> 
> 4. It is appropriate to say both "Non se ne frega" and "non gliene frega" to say he doesn't care. (This was my real question from the beginning. I can look up and understand fregarsene reflexive but I can't figure out why the heck italians also say "non gliene frega". I was saying non "se ne frega" and thought something was wrong with it so I just stopped saying anything!)
> 
> Do I have it straight? I have been obsessed with this phrase and have been embarassed to admit to my Italian friends that I don't know how to use it in the third person. You guys are amazing! I never asked these questions because I thought that I would annoy some poor native speaker endlessley with minutia...
> 
> Thanks for responding!


 

No no no, sorry! I think we mixed up everything!

1 as I said in post #18 *non me me frega* means *I don't give a damn*, but *me ne frega* means both* non mi importa* and *mi importa,* it depends on the context and as this is usually spoken and not written you can understand quite easily the meaning.

2 There isn't a proper form, both are proper, but one is reflexive and the other isn't. *Chi se ne frega* is absolutely common 

3 Both forms are common, I think that the difference (if there is any) between *me ne frego* and *non me ne frega* is that in the latter the emphasis is on the thing I don't care about while in the first is on the subject (but this is only my opinion, don't take it for granted)

4  but I would say *se ne frega*, not *non se ne frega* though somebody does 

Hope this is sufficiently clear, I know it can be a little confusing sometimes


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## Manuel_M

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Apart from _do yourself a disservice_, you could probably say _shoot yourself in the foot,_ which means to do something that damages you ambition, career etc.


 
also *inflict damage upon oneself*?


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## You little ripper!

Manuel_M said:
			
		

> also *inflict damage upon oneself*?


I've never heard the expression used literally this way Manuel.


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## curon

fre|gàr|si
2 v.pronom.intr., procurare a se stesso un danno: _ha rifiutato un’offerta molto vantaggiosa: si è fregato con le sue mani_

Curon, how would you say that in English?




I talked to my Dad about this. There's a fantastic phrase at least in british English "to be hoist by one's own petard". We think that petard here comes from the french, and I know it means joint, banger or gun. Comes from the french peter, meaning fart. They gave the name to the gun because when it fires it sounds like a series of farts. Anyway it means to damage onesself. Unfortunately you won't hear it that often in current usage, but watch out for it in literature.
I still can't think of a good current phrase. Perhaps...
"He hasn't done himself any favours there" 
Don't know what our cousins from over the pond think of this one.


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## Hide

JasonNPato said:
			
		

> Non posso trovare questa parole in il dizionario e sono avendo problemi a tradurlo. Potete aiutarmi, per favore?
> 
> fregartene-
> 
> ed E' in una frase: E' tutto prepagato, stampato e accreditato a noi, ma come fai a non accorgerti, fragartene, andare via...


sentenza = sentence (law)
*He's been given a life sentence*
I'm not sure that this is what you meant. If you meant to refer to a grammatical sentence then you should have written "frase".


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## Howard Coberly

curon said:
			
		

> fre|gàr|si
> 2 v.pronom.intr., procurare a se stesso un danno: _ha rifiutato un’offerta molto vantaggiosa: si è fregato con le sue mani_
> 
> Curon, how would you say that in English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I talked to my Dad about this. There's a fantastic phrase at least in british English "to be hoist by one's own petard". We think that petard here comes from the french, and I know it means joint, banger or gun. Comes from the french peter, meaning fart. They gave the name to the gun because when it fires it sounds like a series of farts. Anyway it means to damage onesself. Unfortunately you won't hear it that often in current usage, but watch out for it in literature.
> I still can't think of a good current phrase. Perhaps...
> "He hasn't done himself any favours there"
> Don't know what our cousins from over the pond think of this one.


 


I like that !!!

I'll be adding that one to my collection of English prases!!!
I love throwing these out in casual conversation!!


Cheers!!!!!


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## Juri

It really was an amusing thread. 
But "fregarsene" in fact has also a positive meaning.
*Me ne frega,sì!* or *Me ne frega, e come!* 
Both are emphatic "Me ne importa!"
Like "Chi se ne frega!" is "*Chi se ne stropiccia*!" ironical and not so "dangerous"


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## angelabonora

Sorry, per gli italiani....sino a pochi anni fa il verbo "fregarsene" era molto volgare, non nel senso che era usato dal  volgo, dalla povera gente, dalle persone senza istruzione, ma nel senso di verbo da non usare se si voleva essere cortesi ed educati.   Tommaso Help! translate please, for me it's very difficult.


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## ElaineG

angelabonora said:
			
		

> Sorry, per gli italiani....sino a pochi anni fa il verbo "fregarsene" era molto volgare, non nel senso che era usato dal volgo, dalla povera gente, dalle persone senza istruzione, ma nel senso di verbo da non usare se si voleva essere cortesi ed educati. Tommaso Help! translate please, for me it's very difficult.


 
You want this translated?

Up until a few years ago the verb "fregarsene" was very vulgar, not it the sense that it was used by the "vulgo" -- by poor or uneducated people, but in the sense that it was a word that was not be used if you wanted to be courteous and well brought-up.


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## mastkudi25

I want to say "Who gives a damn if..." but in a MUCH more polite way than saying "Che se ne frega se..."

Che se ne importa se... is this a better way of doing this?

Thank you!!


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## lsp

Chi, not che, I'm pretty sure.


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## mastkudi25

So "Chi se ne importa" is a good way to say "who cares if...blah blah?"

Also, how about this - "what does it matter to me" would be "chI me ne importa?" not CHE?

Thank you, Lsp!


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## lsp

mastkudi25 said:


> So "Chi se ne importa" is a good way to say "who cares if...blah blah?"
> 
> Also, how about this - "what does it matter to me" would be "chI me ne importa?" not CHE?
> 
> Thank you, Lsp!


Sorry, I wasn't clear. Chi is who, che is what
Che me (ne) importa ("ne" if the subject has already been established).
What's it (matter) to me ("matter" is optional, at least in conversational AE).
A chi se ne importa...  = Who cares if...?


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## Le Peru

mastkudi25 said:


> I want to say "Who gives a damn if..." but in a MUCH more polite way than saying "Che se ne frega se..."
> 
> Che se ne importa se... is this a better way of doing this?
> 
> Thank you!!


 
*Non fa nulla*. *Non importa.* More neutral that Chi se ne frega. 

It depends to the context, but there are also: *Non ha importanza*. *Pazienza*. Or idiomatic *Eo. Vabbè.*

Ciao
Barbara


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## mastkudi25

Grazie Lsp e Barbara per tutto l'aiuta(o?)!

One more thing - what is the "A" doing in front of "A chi se ne importa," Lsp? Does it work here like it would with piacere? A lei piace...

Thank you all for your quick responses!!


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## Le Peru

mastkudi25 said:


> Grazie Lsp e Barbara per tutto l'aiuto!
> 
> One more thing - what is the "A" doing in front of "A chi se ne importa," Lsp? Does it work here like it would with piacere? A lei piace...
> 
> Thank you all for your quick responses!!


 
I hadn't noticed "A chi se ne importa", it should be "E chi se ne importa!"


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## mastkudi25

E = and?
E chi se ne importa = and who cares?

or does E have a different function here? I'm sorry! I'm a little slow at times (


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## Le Peru

mastkudi25 said:


> E = and?
> E chi se ne importa = and who cares?
> 
> or does E have a different function here?  I'm sorry! I'm a little slow at times
> It is understandable, when someone's learning new colloquial o idiomatic ways above all, to be not so sure.


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## mastkudi25

*M*illegrazie per il aiuto, e ciao!


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## perfavore

JasonNPato said:


> Non posso trovare questa parole in il dizionario e sono avendo problemi a tradurlo. Potete aiutarmi, per favore?
> 
> fregartene-
> 
> ed in una sentenza: E' tutto prepagato, stampato e accreditato a noi, ma come fai a non accorgerti, fragartene, andare via...


 
Ciao Jason,

I believe "in + il" in Italian is "nel". Also "parole" looks like the plural of "parola". I'm not sure if it should be "tradurla" instead of tradurlo. I'm also in the process of learning so I wish you the best.

perfavore


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## Juri

The It.verb _fregare_ has many meanings.
To rub, to scrub a saucepan, to rub one's eyes
To steal: Chi mi ha fregato la merenda?
To cheat, to rip off: Ti hanno fregato = you've been duped
To fail, to flunk: Ti sei fregato da solo.
*Fregarsene* means not to care: Chi se ne frega? = who cares?Who gives a toss?
But isn't polite too much!

(Le parole bisogna trovarle nel dizionario per tradurle)


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