# Cnn



## calzetin

I was talking about this with a good friend of mine. It was about the CNN. They mostly talk about the States and when they mention anything about outside America, it's all about wars, natural disasters or "how poor they are in this country".

...I dont know, but it seems as if a person watching CNN would have a not too much clear picture of how's the world. It's like outside America people are so poor they cant afford a tv, not to mention that they must live in huts, being dirty and hardly have anything to eat.

Now I remember Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" where he also talked about how television is used in America to give particular messages.

For example, I've never heard in the CNN anything like "talking of the Nobel prizes, did you know that unlike here (in America) in Sweden going to the university is for free as well as going to the doctor?" Do you think this kind of piece of information is too uninteresting to air? (or is there this amazingly mega huge great conspiracy... conspiracy theory... conspiracy of silence) (If forgot to play here a scary song to give the proper atmosphere to this thread

Calzetin


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## Tormenta

calzetin said:
			
		

> I was talking about this with a good friend of mine. It was about the CNN. They mostly talk about the States and when they mention anything about outside America, it's all about wars, natural disasters or "how poor they are in this country".
> 
> ...I dont know, but it seems as if a person watching CNN would have a not too much clear picture of how's the world. It's like outside America people are so poor they cant afford a tv, not to mention that they must live in huts, being dirty and hardly have anything to eat.
> 
> Now I remember Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" where he also talked about how television is used in America to give particular messages.
> 
> For example, I've never heard in the CNN anything like "talking of the Nobel prizes, *did you know that unlike here (in America) in Sweden going to the university is for free *as well as going to the doctor?" Do you think this kind of piece of information is too uninteresting to air? (or is there this amazingly mega huge great conspiracy... conspiracy theory... conspiracy of silence) (If forgot to play here a scary song to give the proper atmosphere to this thread
> 
> Calzetin




Hola Calzetin,

Are you kidding?  If they report that, other people might want free university also  

What I find "interesting" about CNN, is not just the kind of matters they report, but HOW they present the issue.
I remember a few months ago, when I still lived in Central America, BBC World and DWTV (German News) reported about something that was happening in Iraq (I rather don't mention what it was).
Later on I watched CNN,  who was reporting   on the very  same issue.  I really felt as if they were talking about a different war  which was taking place somewhere else, because of the way the facts were presented. 

Also, they jump from reporting on war to reporting about the world largest sandwich or the missing cat, go figure   


Keeping you informed, Tormenta Torbellino, CNN, Buenos Aires


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## Tomasoria

talking about CNN...what about FOX news??? I watched them from time to time and... NO COMMENT ¡¡¡


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## calzetin

Tormenta said:
			
		

> Are you kidding?  If they report that, other people might want free university also



Do you think that most Americans (or a good number of them) dont know there are countries where esential (at least for me) things like education and health care are for free (or quite cheap)?

My point is if an average American knows those facts about other countries or not? 
And I ask this because that might be an explanation for who americans decide to vote: if an american thinks that they are well-off because of having tv, electricity and roads while "the rest of the world" travel riding donkeys and have one meal a day when lucky... then maybe that american also thinks that university is always something for the very, very well-off (while they are just "well-off") and going to the doctor is always expensive.

I mean, maybe things like CNN make them think they are better-off than anybody else (you know, "we are the richest country in the world"), so they go and...
vote for Bush!!

PS: and then Bush will be sure that every American is rich (that is, they will have a tv at home and running water...unlike Spain or Sweden)


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## Tormenta

calzetin said:
			
		

> Do you think that most Americans (or a good number of them) dont know there are countries where esential (at least for me) things like education and health care are for free (or quite cheap)?
> 
> *My point is if an average American knows those facts about other countries or not*?
> And I ask this because that might be an explanation for who americans decide to vote: if an american thinks that they are well-off because of having tv, electricity and roads while "the rest of the world" travel riding donkeys and have one meal a day when lucky... then maybe that american also thinks that university is always something for the very, very well-off (while they are just "well-off") and going to the doctor is always expensive.
> 
> I mean, maybe things like CNN make them think they are better-off than anybody else (you know, "we are the richest country in the world"), so they go and...
> vote for Bush!!
> 
> PS: and then Bush will be sure that every American is rich (that is, they will have a tv at home and running water...unlike Spain or Sweden)




We will have to wait for "average"Americans to prove me wrong (do they come to these forums? ),  in my opinion, average Americans don't really know much about other countries, specially countries which do well.
Visiting places like KS, MO , CO, OK, OR, VA,MD,CA etc I got the feeling that the "average man" does not know much about other countries, actually, many people even think that Europe is today in the same situation it was after WWII ended.
Again, I am not saying "all" Americans, but I am saying ""average" Americans.

Tormenta


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## pinkpanter

calzetin said:
			
		

> My point is if an average American knows those facts about other countries or not?



hi calzetin, your post is really interesting    i hope many people say their opinions about this. the thing is that i think that the americans in this forum are very fond of knowledge and they are not "average".


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## Silvia

I agree with you Tormenta. But I'm trying to update them


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## dave

What is an *average American*? I think we should be careful that we don't get confused with the *stereotypical American* and start American bashing for the sake of it. All the Americans I have ever met (and I still count a few among my close friends) have been among the most educated, open-minded and world-aware people I've had the pleasure to meet. 

They didn't all vote for Bush remember!


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## Tormenta

dave said:
			
		

> What is an *average American*? I think we should be careful that we don't get confused with the *stereotypical American* and start American bashing for the sake of it. All the Americans I have ever met (and I still count a few among my close friends) have been among the most educated, open-minded and world-aware people I've had the pleasure to meet.
> 
> They didn't all vote for Bush remember!




Hi Dave,

Please, let me explain  what I mean by "average Americans".  When I talk about average Americans, I refer to the people I came in contact with, in every day life.  The people I worked with, the people I met in places such as church, supermarket, gym, basball games, parents evening at my kids school, etc etc. I am not saying they are stupid or ignorant, I am saying they lack general knowledge about other countries. I would also say that "average Americans" are among the most generous people I have ever met (and I still count several among my close friends), but again, in my opinion, they are not well informed about "there rest of the world". 

I am not American bashing. I am just saying that when it comes to knowing what other countries are like, Americans are not well informed.  Now, if the Americans on this forum think that I am wrong and this is, indeed, American bashing, I will apologize to them.

Tormenta


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## pinkpanter

i think tormenta explained perfectly what all of us meant. no offence intended at all


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## diyer

Me temo que la imagen que los Estadounidenses tienen del resto del mundo esta tan mediatizada como la que el resto del mundo tiene de ellos.

Lo que unos sabemos de los otros está "filtrada" convenientemente por los intereses de las diferentes empresas de comunicación. Sino fuese así, cómo explicar las diferentes versiones de un mismo suceso informativo.

Hemos de aceptar que somos receptores de información interesada. Somos manipulados. Siempre he oido decir que quien tiene la información tiene el poder. Lo creo firmemente.

En USA han votado movidos/estimulados por el miedo, basado en un recuerdo (11S), pero no sólo éso. Curiosamente, lo que siempre ha movido el voto ha sido la economía, y viendo otros casos anteriores, la mentira. A Clinton le "montaron" un impeachment por una mamada (slang). En este caso no ha sido así. Desde mi punto de vista ha sido una combinación de dos circunstancias. 

Una, el miedo. Bush ha utilizado el medio como un arma electoral.
Otra, lo moral/inmoral de la oferta demócrata sobre los matrimonios homosexuales, el aborto, las células madre,etc. Ha utilizado lo más íntimo de cada uno para hacerle creer que su modo de vida se viene abajo, se derrumba.

También creo que _el resto del mundo_ debería votar en USA, ya que lo que decidan allí nos va a afectar a todos.

Me gustaría seguir pero me tengo que ir.

Saludos


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## pinkpanter

diyer said:
			
		

> Me temo que la imagen que los Estadounidenses tienen del resto del mundo esta tan mediatizada como la que el resto del mundo tiene de ellos.
> 
> También creo que _el resto del mundo_ debería votar en USA, ya que lo que decidan allí nos va a afectar a todos.



hola diyer, es posible que tengas razon en lo primero que dices. toda la informacion esta tan manipulada que ya es dificil saber como son las cosas. sin embargo, no me parece coherente que todo el mundo pudiera votar en ee.uu. puede apetecer votar despues de tanto que oyes de los candidatos pero no me parece logico desde ningun punto de vista.


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## Zephyrus

Estoy de acuerdo con uds, CNN, FOX...manipulan la informacion a su mejor conveniencia. Al igual que Tormenta, tambien tuve la oportunidad de ver un "breaking news" de la guerra en Irak pero transmitida por TV5, al terminar cambie a CNN y tuve la sensacion de que estaban hablando de otra guerra. Se lo comente a una amiga y me dijo que lo habia visto primero en la Deutsche Welle y luego en CNN y tuvo igual impresion.


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## quehuong

I'd like to recommend the *NPR* to you, and here is the homepage http://www.npr.org/ and the about page http://www.npr.org/about/

Please answer my questions very honestly.

1.  Do *most people* in your native country travel to other countries (near and about 1000+ miles away)  .  Let's say at least 1 country per year and 5 times per year.  For the distant ones let's say China, Tibet, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Burkino Faso, Ethiopia, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and etc....

2.  Do *most people* in your native country speak, write, and read another language *well*?  



I've heard so many comments about Americans (from people at WordReference and other places) and here are a few:

1.  They are ignorant.
2.  They don't know anything except the USA.
3.  They don't try to understand other cultures and languages.
4.  They are disrespectful.
5.  Who voted for Bush are generally close-minded.
6.  They think they are the best, the most superior, the most powerful and so and so.
7.  They think they can do anything to any country.
8 etc.

Your opinions of us average Americans have made us reflect and reevaluate our values, our lives, and our future.  For this I thank you!


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## pollyb

Thank you Dave
I am an *average American* and I do feel that I am as well informed as I can be in regards to many other countries and nationalities. I have been out of school for a very long time, but  I am a voracious reader, so I am learning all the time about worldly issues, I love to read travel books and articles so I am familiar with many countries and their traditions. I certainly do not think that the USA is the only country with electricity, running water, paved roads, etc. Do we as Americans really come across as that crass to the rest of the world? I hope not  
pollyb


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## dave

Tormenta said:
			
		

> Hi Dave,
> 
> Please, let me explain  what I mean by "average Americans".  When I talk about average Americans, I refer to the people I came in contact with, in every day life.  The people I worked with, the people I met in places such as church, supermarket, gym, basball games, parents evening at my kids school, etc etc. I am not saying they are stupid or ignorant, I am saying they lack general knowledge about other countries. I would also say that "average Americans" are among the most generous people I have ever met (and I still count several among my close friends), but again, in my opinion, they are not well informed about "there rest of the world".
> 
> I am not American bashing. I am just saying that when it comes to knowing what other countries are like, Americans are not well informed.  Now, if the Americans on this forum think that I am wrong and this is, indeed, American bashing, I will apologize to them.
> 
> Tormenta



Fair point Tormenta. Now I think about it, all the Americans I have met have been living/travelling in Spain and France, so I guess they may not be representative of the American people at large!

Also, as I'm sure you know, a lot of your comments about the average American could also legitimately be made about the 'average' Englishman.


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## Tormenta

dave said:
			
		

> Fair point Tormenta. Now I think about it, all the Americans I have met have been living/travelling in Spain and France, so I guess they may not be representative of the American people at large!
> 
> Also, as I'm sure you know, a lot of your comments about the average American could also legitimately be made about the '*average' Englishman*.



I am not going there!    

Tormenta


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## dave

pollyb said:
			
		

> Thank you Dave
> I am an *average American* and I do feel that I am as well informed as I can be in regards to many other countries and nationalities. I have been out of school for a very long time, but  I am a voracious reader, so I am learning all the time about worldly issues, I love to read travel books and articles so I am familiar with many countries and their traditions. I certainly do not think that the USA is the only country with electricity, running water, paved roads, etc. Do we as Americans really come across as that crass to the rest of the world? I hope not
> pollyb



There was a really interesting article in my newspaper this morning, written by an English academic who has lived and worked in the US for the last 20 or so years.

The essence of his argument was that the US is now a polarised nation, and he defines the two sides as *Worldly America * (represented by those states on the Atlantic and Pacific seaboards and those bordering the Great Lakes, which he postulates are 'outward looking', at least in part because of their geographical location and cosmopolitan demographic), and *Godly America * (represented by the inner states, and which are 'inward looking' and whose primary concern is the preservation of traditional 'moral values'). You can read the full article here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1344144,00.html

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, particularly from our US friends!


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## pinkpanter

quehuong said:
			
		

> Please answer my questions very honestly.
> 
> 1.  Do *most people* in your native country travel to other countries (near and about 1000+ miles away). Let's say at least 1 country per year and 5 times per year.  For the distant ones let's say China, Tibet, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Burkino Faso, Ethiopia, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and etc....
> 
> 2.  Do *most people* in your native country speak, write, and read another language *well*?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. no, most people don't travel 5 times per year.
> 
> 2. yes.
Click to expand...


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## pinkpanter

dave said:
			
		

> There was a really interesting article in my newspaper this morning, written by an English academic who has lived and worked in the US for the last 20 or so years.
> 
> The essence of his argument was that the US is now a polarised nation, and he defines the two sides as *Worldly America * (represented by those states on the Atlantic and Pacific seaboards and those bordering the Great Lakes, which he postulates are 'outward looking', at least in part because of their geographical location and cosmopolitan demographic), and *Godly America * (represented by the inner states, and which are 'inward looking' and whose primary concern is the preservation of traditional 'moral values'). You can read the full article here:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1344144,00.html
> 
> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, particularly from our US friends!



this is very interesting dave. i have met many americans from the bible belt


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## cuchuflete

dave said:
			
		

> There was a really interesting article in my newspaper this morning, written by an English academic who has lived and worked in the US for the last 20 or so years.
> 
> The essence of his argument was that the US is now a polarised nation, and he defines the two sides as *Worldly America * (represented by those states on the Atlantic and Pacific seaboards and those bordering the Great Lakes, which he postulates are 'outward looking', at least in part because of their geographical location and cosmopolitan demographic), and *Godly America * (represented by the inner states, and which are 'inward looking' and whose primary concern is the preservation of traditional 'moral values'). You can read the full article here:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1344144,00.html
> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, particularly from our US friends!




Dave, I guess the news travels slowly.  My friends and I had exactly this discussion.  In a small college town in New Hampshire,  in the spring of
1969.  Little has changed since.

Best regards,
Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

The future?


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## dvquo

Yeah.. that reminds of an old joke






And more in the next post (this don't let me post more images in a single post)


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## dvquo

And the new version of it


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## Silvia

So accurate!!!   

I will show some friends of mine, I'm sure they will laugh!


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## Silvia

Dyer, se tu puoi scrivere in spagnolo, allora io posso scrivere in italiano, giusto?   
E comunque la tua idea non è male, votare tutti per gli Stati Uniti, ma poi avrebbero un presidente comunista!   

To QH: 
I can tell you where I've been to so far:
Portugal, Spain, France, Monaco, Switzerland, Vatican State, Republic of St Marino, Austria, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, Egypt, UK, Denmark, Germany, Liechtenstein, Greece, and to some of them more than once.

In my country studying at least one foreign language has been compulsory for over 30 years or so, now it's compulsory from elementary school... About how well we can speak it, that depends on the person, on their interest and inclination.

I don't know what your point was there.

But let me say that you can fly 3000 miles and feel at home, here if you fly 3000 miles you cannot feel at home!


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## quehuong

Silvia said:
			
		

> I can tell you where I've been to so far:
> Portugal, Spain, France, Monaco, Switzerland, Vatican State, Republic of St Marino, Austria, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, Egypt, UK, Denmark, Germany, Liechtenstein, Greece, and to some of them more than once.
> 
> In my country studying at least one foreign language has been compulsory for over 30 years or so, now it's compulsory from elementary school... About how well we can speak it, that depends on the person, on their interest and inclination.
> 
> I don't know what your point was there.





			
				pinkpanter said:
			
		

> quehuong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please answer my questions very honestly.
> 
> 1.  Do *most people* in your native country travel to other countries (near and about 1000+ miles away). Let's say at least 1 country per year and 5 times per year.  For the distant ones let's say China, Tibet, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Burkino Faso, Ethiopia, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and etc....
> 
> 2.  Do *most people* in your native country speak, write, and read another language *well*?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. no, most people don't travel 5 times per year.
> 
> 2. yes.
Click to expand...


Thank you for answering the questions.  There are several reasons why I asked you these questions one of which is to use your answers to support *Foreign Language Education* in my area specifically.  Foreigners want us to understand other languages and cultures, but some just don't understand that this is not an overnight change that we can make.  Just like nature, some things require more time to decompose and transform because of their characteristics and biomes.


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## pinkpanter

quehuong said:
			
		

> Foreigners want us to understand other languages and cultures, but some just don't understand that this is not an overnight change that we can make.  Just like nature, some things require more time to decompose and transform because of their characteristics and biomes.




hello quehuon, i agree it is not an easy change. in any case, knowing other languages and cultures must be reinforced by the government and all people should understand it is not an individual's fault. if in my country learning a second language were not considered important less people would study it.


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## quehuong

Pink,

I agree.


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## jakkaro

quehuong said:
			
		

> I'd like to recommend the *NPR* to you, and here is the homepage http://www.npr.org/ and the about page http://www.npr.org/about/
> 
> Please answer my questions very honestly.
> 
> 1.  Do *most people* in your native country travel to other countries (near and about 1000+ miles away)  .  Let's say at least 1 country per year and 5 times per year.  For the distant ones let's say China, Tibet, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Burkino Faso, Ethiopia, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and etc....
> 
> 2.  Do *most people* in your native country speak, write, and read another language *well*?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard so many comments about Americans (from people at WordReference and other places) and here are a few:
> 
> 1.  They are ignorant.
> 2.  They don't know anything except the USA.
> 3.  They don't try to understand other cultures and languages.
> 4.  They are disrespectful.
> 5.  Who voted for Bush are generally close-minded.
> 6.  They think they are the best, the most superior, the most powerful and so and so.
> 7.  They think they can do anything to any country.
> 8 etc.
> 
> Your opinions of us average Americans have made us reflect and reevaluate our values, our lives, and our future.  For this I thank you!



Hi

I'd like to comment on a few things you said: 

Although I am aware that I have lived an exception, (I grew up in Luxembourg) - by the way, do anybody of you know where Luxembourg is and what languages they speak?? - most people (of Luxembourg) do travel to other countries, and I believe that also Germans do travel a lot and have a very good knowledge of other countries and are interested in them, not only as a tourist but they are trying to adapt themselves quite well (speaking the other languege, adapting the local culture, and so on) when they live in another country (Tell me if I'm wrong!). Of course people are not travelling 5 times a year to another country at te other side of the planet (who can afford it I am asking???). 

As for the languages (and I repeat that I am aware thet this is anexception) most people do speak 3 (!) languages in Luuxembourg, but this is also true for most northern-europe countries (almost everybody in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavian countries, etc) does speak at least 2 or 3 languages.... so, YES, it exists!!!!!! and I think that especially english-speaking countries should take an example and try to get off this "everybody- understands- me- when- I'm- speaking- english" trip and learn at least one foreign language as it also is a way to learn to adapt oneself to the other!!!! (the sooner you start, the better)

As for your last comments: I think that these are the general ideas about the "average american", as that's the way they are trying to "sell" us the american culture, and, istn't it true that only a very low % of the Northern Americans do speak a foreign language?? Isn't it true that mose people lack of general knowledge of other countries and/or cultures? Arent't there many stereotypes everywhere??????
Please comment


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## jakkaro

... About how well we can speak it, that depends on the person, on their interest and inclination....

I don't know what your point was there.

But let me say that you can fly 3000 miles and feel at home, here if you fly 3000 miles you cannot feel at home![/QUOTE]

Very well said!!!


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## Tomasoria

Jakkaro; Amazing place where you where born...the real heart of Europe. They Speak Frenc, German and Dutch (the Belgium one, Neerlandais)...there are quite a few who speak Portuguese thanks to lusitannian inmigration. Nice country bearing in mind that there are only banks, dentist-related industry and european institutions...

 As for the stereotiped american citizen, I think it's time to look on ourselves...Just see what your country fellow people in Greece, Spain, The U.K, Germany, etc  know about the outside world...Ask about Africa for instance, We still think that is a continent of black people eating bananas and killing each other for tribal reasons (isn't it tru???¡¡¡). Ask about Mexicans, even in Spain, we still think they wear charro Hats and revolvers... 

   So, what's the difference between average europeans and americans??


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## valerie

I would be curious to know if the American (from USA) consider there are important differences between one state and the other, somehow as in Europe we feel each country is different from the others.


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## jakkaro

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> Jakkaro; Amazing place where you where born...the real heart of Europe. They Speak Frenc, German and Dutch (the Belgium one, Neerlandais)...there are quite a few who speak Portuguese thanks to lusitannian inmigration. Nice country bearing in mind that there are only banks, dentist-related industry and european institutions...
> 
> As for the stereotiped american citizen, I think it's time to look on ourselves...Just see what your country fellow people in Greece, Spain, The U.K, Germany, etc  know about the outside world...Ask about Africa for instance, We still think that is a continent of black people eating bananas and killing each other for tribal reasons (isn't it tru???¡¡¡). Ask about Mexicans, even in Spain, we still think they wear charro Hats and revolvers...
> 
> So, what's the difference between average europeans and americans??



Hi Toma
Thx for your message, although I have to correct you - people in Luxembourg do not speak Dutch at all, but the national language is Luxemburgish. I was not born there, only raised, but I am happy to have had the chance to learn quite a lot of languages. As for the bakks it's quite true   

As for the average european, I do not agree, I mean, most people I know (or maybe I do know mostly exceptional persons) do have a broader knowledge of other countries and the general "outside world". I mean, I just can't believe there still are people who, to take your example, think of Africans who are sitting on trees eating bananas or Mexicans who are running around with a Guitar singing Mariachi Songs or even Magrebian people riding on camels.... you just have to open your ears and arms in order to connect with people from other cultures and LISTEN to them. I mean, fortunately, there are more and more different persons in every country, there are mixed couples everywhere, people have the oportunity to get some information from abroad... so why just sitting at home and watch your every-night soap opera???

As for me


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## Benjy

i'd just like to say one thing.. alot of people who i have met who say "i speak 2/3 languages" IN GENERAL (i know this is NOT the case in luxembourg ) speak one really well (native language) can get by in one other and can say hello/goodbye/where is the train station? in the third. alot of ppl speak english very well for a few simple reasons 

1 media/pop culture.. the day another country starts making as many good films and stuff in foreign language will be the day people get up and start learning that language.. 

2 business.. if you go to a foreign country its usually a lot easier to find someone who speaks english over say french or german.

basically.. there is alot greater motivation to learn english than other languages.. i dont think americans/britishers are intrinsically lazy, they just analyse the situation and react accordingly.

and before anyone labels me cultureless or monolingual i've lived in france speak the language and loved living there  next project is italien altho that will be take a little more time as i don't have the time to go live there


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## Tomasoria

Benjy;

 Just honestly, count among your friends or acquaintances how many of then are able to say sth. more  "hola amigo, una cerveza" or "voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir". I promise, Britons are not the best at languages in the world...but, at least, americans will always be below you. I don't mean that monolingual=cultureless but speaking languages helps a lot...

   Saludos...


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## Benjy

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> Benjy;
> 
> Just honestly, count among your friends or acquaintances how many of then are able to say sth. more  "hola amigo, una cerveza" or "voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir". I promise, Britons are not the best at languages in the world...but, at least, americans will always be below you. I don't mean that monolingual=cultureless but speaking languages helps a lot...
> 
> Saludos...



hmmm i can think of at least 3 of my friends (english) who have lived abroad in europe and speak at least one other language fluently... and if you go to california u can find tons of americans who speak spanish, its all a question of needs/motivation.. i garantie that if u took a french child at birth and put him in the states he wont all of a sudden want to learn languages more than the other kids cos of his super continental genes.. he just isnt in a situation thats going to make him want to learn another language.  its that simple.. i get so bored of peoples opinions of americans its all the same thing :/ i remember being shouted at by many different people on the continent cos i was in the company of americans.. people i didnt know yelling political things and personal insults to boot.. if thats culture and awareness of world issues thanks but i dont want any of it

edit: i never said we were the best at languages or anything of the sort where did you get that from?


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## VenusEnvy

I can say that my parents seem to be the most average of Americans (as Americans go). However, when I told them about my brilliant new plan to change my life, and travel abroad, they nearly had a heart attack! They painted a grim (and uneducated) picture of South American countries. Supposedly all of the children run around barefoot, everyone has a disease, and murderers and kidnappers are just waiting for American girls to come over so they can lead them into basements and torture them. I am quoting them.

I was also told that living abroad and learning another language would add no immediate benefit to a career, other than being able to put on a resume, "I lived in another country." In fact, as soon as I return to the states, all of the "good" jobs would be eaten up by fresh-out-of-college workers. Whereas, I will be left scouring for more waitressing jobs and living by the penny. Gosh, parents (American or not) sure are hard-headed! 

Yes, folks, this is my life.    

I feel you all!    

While many Americans may not express these views out loud (We all know how un-PC that would be!), I believe that many still express it in subtle ways.


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## Dale Dolores

Hi, Friends,

I have to say that I get tired of the American bashing, too.  I used to live in Sevilla back in 2000.  I had a wonderful time.  This year, I returned to Spain to do part of my Master's degree, and boy was I tired of defending America.

I understand why much of the world has this negative view of us, but I began to wonder "What are other cultures learning of _us_"?  Have you forgotten about many of the "minority" groups in the US?  My mother is of mixed ancestry and my father is Nigerian.  When my mother was growing up in Texas, she and her family would take road trips to visit family in California.  They often times had to sleep in their car because hotel signs read "No dogs, blacks (or n*%$#@&) or Jews allowed".  My parents fought long and hard during the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s as did many other Americans.  Fortunatley, much has changed for the better in the States. I never grew up thinking I was the best or whatever many people think of Americans.  I just don't see how such a multi-cultural society can fit under one label.

I would also like to mention that in order to graduate from high school, at least in my state of North Carolina, (which yes, is in the south), it is obligatory to have at least 2 years of a foreign language.  But, now with the high Hispanic immigration, to be a shoe in for a job, it is necessary to speak Spanish.  Someone mentioned that Americans will always be behind the British.  Well, I lived in the UK, and I didn't see bank forms, government forms nor interpreters like you do in most cities in the US (and not just major cities, either). In many States you will find radio and television stations in Spanish as well as newspapers in Spanish.  You can't say that about some European countries.

I also speak Spanish, I worked as an interpreter in a hospital. I took 4 years of Spanish in a public high school, and then studied abroad.  Currently I'm learning French.  Many students participate in study abroad programs to learn other languages and cultures.  There are study abroad programs not only to Europe but to Africa, South America and Asia as well.

The US is becoming a bilingual nation.  I think it is easier for others to be multi-lingual because the countries are so small.  If you think about it, if all the 50 states of the US (some being approx the size of small countries) all spoke different languages, of course Americans would be multi-lingual.  The African countries are quite large, but many tribes of differing languages live within close proximity of each other. It's common to find a West African trader who speaks 7 languages, for example!

That being said, I am not blind to the faults of my country.  I am very critical of what is going on.  But, I think many should know that Americans cannot be clumped into one group and that America is becoming a bilingual society.  I can't tell you how many people I have met who actually go to the US for a good period of time only to tell me "Oh, I had no idea".  Take a while to really get know us and learn the history. It is very complex.  We are _way_ too complex to be generalized.


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## Tomasoria

I think I owe some excuses to Benjy...Yes, Benjy you're right, british are not so language-illiterate as I described on my last thread. I actually met a lot of them speaking a fluent french when I was living in Brussels (French is apparently the favourite foreign language in the U.K...). Maybe I was just trying to heat up the discussion. We're supposed to be highly educated people and we should avoid such an easy generalisation when it comes to talk about american stereotypes or whatever. I actually see how many british are becoming more and more "european-mindful" and try to be much more connected to the continent. British universities are full of foreign students and thousands of britons live in the south of Portugal, Spain and France...and that helps a lot to mutual understanding.

    Joyjolade, you're right too in one sense...Spanish is becoming kind of 2nd language in the USA, but is this fact changing anything to how americans and the U.S Gov. see the situation in Latin America??? I think that the vision offered by VenusEnvy is still majority among many americans...and many europeans too. Even in Spain, there so many sterotypes towards "sudacas" (latin americans)...

     Joyjolade, I live in Seville...great to hear you're coming back to Spain.

     Saludos. 

  Joylolade


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## Tormenta

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> I think I owe some excuses to Benjy...Yes, Benjy you're right, british are not so language-illiterate as I described on my last thread. I actually met a lot of them speaking a fluent french when I was living in Brussels (French is apparently the favourite foreign language in the U.K...). Maybe I was just trying to heat up the discussion. We're supposed to be highly educated people and we should avoid such an easy generalisation when it comes to talk about american stereotypes or whatever. I actually see how many british are becoming more and more "european-mindful" and try to be much more connected to the continent. British universities are full of foreign students and thousands of britons live in the south of Portugal, Spain and France...and that helps a lot to mutual understanding.
> 
> Joyjolade, you're right too in one sense...Spanish is becoming kind of 2nd language in the USA, but is this fact changing anything to how americans and the U.S Gov. see the situation in Latin America??? I think that the vision offered by VenusEnvy is still majority among many americans...and many europeans too. Even in Spain, there so many sterotypes towards [B]*"sudacas" (latin americans)...[*/B]
> 
> Joyjolade, I live in Seville...great to hear you're coming back to Spain.
> 
> Saludos.
> 
> Joylolade








Tomas,

If you choose to use the word "sudaca", fair enough; after all there is freedom of speech and we may call people whatever we want, right??????

However, if you type this: *"'Sudacas' (Latin Americans)"*, people, who are not familiar with the word "Sudaca" , might get the impression that these two words are synonyms, and as you well know, 'Sudaca' is not a synonym of Latin American, as "nigger" is not a synonym of black. 

I suggest you make up your mind and decide if you prefer to call us "Sudacas" or "Latin Americans" , but you can't use both words as if they were the same, because they are not. Full stop.

Tormenta


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## Tomasoria

Ok, ok,... Maybe I'm not being "politcamente correcto" in all this sutff about blacks and latinamericans. SUDACA is offensive as Nigger is too...but ,as for Sudaca, it depends on who is addressing  you...it can be a diminutive for sudamericano and even  affectionate..., the same as Mensaca (for mensajero), Segurata (guardia de seguridad) and some more. It's true, however, that it's becoming quite pejorative lately in Spain. 

 No te enfades Tormenta, al fin y al cabo, se trata de ver en que situación viven  los diferentes extranjeros y razas que viven en nuestros respectivos paises. Y lo peyorativo forma parte de nuestras vidas también. Mi error fué no explicar el sentido de "sudaca"...pero lo puse entre comillas. No pienses que soy un racista...solo discrimino a los de mente estrecha y radical...nunca a los que nos e parece a mi en mente o cuerpo...

   Lo dicho, rectificar es de sabios y lo hago.


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## Tormenta

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> Ok, ok,... Maybe I'm not being "politcamente correcto" in all this sutff about blacks and latinamericans. SUDACA is offensive as Nigger is too...but ,as for Sudaca, it depends on who is addressing  you...it can be a diminutive for sudamericano and even  affectionate..., the same as Mensaca (for mensajero), Segurata (guardia de seguridad) and some more. It's true, however, that it's becoming quite pejorative lately in Spain.
> 
> *No te enfades Tormenta*, al fin y al cabo, se trata de ver en que situación viven  los diferentes extranjeros y razas que viven en nuestros respectivos paises. Y lo peyorativo forma parte de nuestras vidas también. Mi error fué no explicar el sentido de "sudaca"...pero lo puse entre comillas. No pienses que soy un racista...solo discrimino a los de mente estrecha y radical...nunca a los que nos e parece a mi en mente o cuerpo...
> 
> Lo dicho, rectificar es de sabios y lo hago.




Vale, Tomas, no me enfado, incluso te perdono.  Después de todo, “errar es humano , perdonar es divino”.   

Cariños ,

Tormenta


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## Dale Dolores

This somewhat addresses the outward thinking some Americans have. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/newsid_3993000/3993841.stm


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