# Le gusta



## iainlin

I know that "mucho gusto" mean thank you and "el gusto" mean please to meet you.  What I don't understan is how to use "Le gusta" and what it realy mean"  I understand the formal and  informal rules. I also understand  the masculire and feminine nouns.


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## chamyto

¿ Puedes ser más explícito ?


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## gengo

iainlin said:


> I know that "mucho gusto" mean thank you and "el gusto" mean please to meet you.  What I don't understan is how to use "Le gusta" and what it realy mean"  I understand the formal and  informal rules. I also understand  the masculire and feminine nouns.



"Mucho gusto" means roughly "it's my pleasure," not "thank you."  It can also be used to mean "pleased to meet you."

"El gusto" means "the pleasure," and not "please*d* to meet you."

You need to look up "gustar" in a good dictionary and read all the examples.  "Le gusta" means "You/he/she like(s) it."

Me gusta = I like it
Te gusta = You like it
Les gusta = They/you (pl.) like it


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## WyomingSue

Although really
me gusta = it is pleasing to me
te gusta = it is pleasing to you
me gustan = they are pleasing to me
etc.
The verb means "to be pleasing to".  In English we describe our reaction the other way around.


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## IryanhaI

*Gracias *is thank you
*Mucho Gusto* is pleased to meet you
*Gusto* is a noun which means pleasure. 

Le gusta has three forms, which are: feminine, masculine, and you (formal). However, you are able to clarify or emphasize (although it is unnecessary depending on the case) the indirect object by adding "*a ella, a él, and a usted*".

For example:
A él le gusta la película (He likes the movie)
A ella le gusta la canción (She likes the song)
A usted le gusta la comida española (You "formal" like Spanish cuisine)

Now, "*le*" is called an indirect object, meaning that it stands for "him, her, or you". However,* Le gusta* is loosely translated to "he, she, or you like" when it can actually mean "it pleases him, her, or you".

Example 2:
A él le gusta la película (Actual translation: The movies pleases him) (Loose translation: He likes the movie)
A ella le gusta la canción  (Actual translation: The song pleases him( (Loose translation: She likes the song)
A usted le gusta la comida española (Actual translation: Spanish cuisine pleases you "formal") (Loose Translation: You "formal" like Spanish cuisine)


Hope this helps.


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## Fer BA

WyomingSue said:


> Although really
> me gusta = it is pleasing to me
> te gusta = it is pleasing to you
> me gustan = they are pleasing to me
> etc.
> The verb means "to be pleasing to". In English we describe our reaction the other way around.


 
Sue:

I'm not really following you....or I disagree with your post. _Gustar_ into spanish doesn't mean _to be pleasing to _and it translates perfectly well into english as _to like. _It has a different sense that is translated as _to taste, _but that's a different story.


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## WyomingSue

I disagree, Fer BA.  If it meant "to like," then we'd have "I like" (gusto las manzanas), "you like" (gustas las manzanas), etc.  But that's not the case.  
The apples are pleasing to me--Me gustan las manzanas.


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## AstuWar

WyomingSue said:


> I disagree, Fer BA.  If it meant "to like," then we'd have "I like" (gusto las manzanas), "you like" (gustas las manzanas), etc.  But that's not the case.
> The apples are pleasing to me--Me gustan las manzanas.



'Gusto las manzanas' makes no sense at all. '_Me gustan las manzanas' _means '_I like apples_'; plus although '_apples are pleasing to me'_ could be translated as '_me gustan las manzanas'_ too, it literally means '_las manzanas me son gratas_'.


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## Ellouder

WyomingSue said:


> I disagree, Fer BA. If it meant "to like," then we'd have "I like" (gusto las manzanas), "you like" (gustas las manzanas), etc. But that's not the case.
> The apples are pleasing to me--Me gustan las manzanas.


 

I like apples - Me gustan las manzanas.


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## gengo

WyomingSue said:


> I disagree, Fer BA.  If it meant "to like," then we'd have "I like" (gusto las manzanas), "you like" (gustas las manzanas), etc.  But that's not the case.
> The apples are pleasing to me--Me gustan las manzanas.



That's right.  And "Me encanta la peli" means "The movie enchants me," and "Me hace falta mi esposa" means "My wife makes me lacking," and "Me apetece un helado" means "An ice cream craves me."  Sure!

Sarcasm aside, it makes no sense to try and translate phrases as literally as you are doing.  "Me gustan las manzanas" does NOT translate to "Apples are pleasing to me."  That would be something like "Me complacen las manzanas."

Of course, for English-speaking learners of Spanish, it sometimes helps to explain it your way, so they can see the direction in which the verb works in Spanish, but once they master the concept, they should discard that crutch, since it is really a false friend.

However, there are cases in Spanish in which gustar functions in a way that is closer to that of "to like."  For example:

como guste:  as you wish
cuando usted guste:  whenever you like
Si gustas, puedes acompañarnos:  If you like, you can go with us

This usage is a bit more formal that the usual form (Si te gusta...), but is fairly common.


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## WyomingSue

> Of course, for English-speaking learners of Spanish, it sometimes helps to explain it your way, so they can see the direction in which the verb works in Spanish


Well, that was my point, because iainlin is a beginner


> I know that "mucho gusto" mean thank you and "el gusto" mean please to meet you. What I don't understan is how to use "Le gusta" and what it realy mean" I understand the formal and informal rules. I also understand the masculire and feminine nouns.


 and is probably just learning basic phrases and how to conjugate verbs.  I teach Spanish to beginners, and once they learn how to say hablo, hablas, habla, hablamos, etc. then they tell me
gusto pizza, gustas perros, etc.  
Obviously in English we say "I like ...", and that's the best natural translation, but students who are in 50-minutes classes, not immersed, need to go through the transitional form or they mess it up.


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## gengo

Point taken, Sue.  But give another read to your first post (#4), and you'll see why we didn't interpret it that way.

I hope you are telling your students something like "One way to think of it is..., but of course it doesn't really translate that way."  Otherwise they will be confused, and wonder how to say "I like."

Good luck teaching!


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## WyomingSue

I understand what you mean, Gengo, but dealing w/ 13-year-olds sometimes it's good for them to realize that you can't translate every word literally.  They tend to assume that English is the absolute standard for every form of communication.


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## obz

I know exactly what Sue is trying to say. Post #4 is clear to me Sue. 

Some people have an easier time making the transition of _" I like -> thing" _to _"Thing pleases -> me"_ and spelling it out like this instead of just telling them _"it means to like"_ helps some.

The fact is that _"to like"_ and _"gustar" _are a compromise of translation (like many things) that can be explained or explored in may ways so long as the learner gets it in the end and gives up what he is used to.


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## duvija

Waht about:
The verb works exactly as 'disgust', in English. Imagine then a verb that would be 'gust'. Check word order: short words go together.  And that's how 'gustar' works. (I'm not saying my students were happy, but at least, 'disgust' they know...)

He disgusts me - (imaginary: he gusts me - he me gusts ) - él me gusta
You disgust them ( ... you gust them - you them gust - tú les gustas.

Sometimes I was pretty lucky with this.


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## obz

Yeah, disgust is a great model to use to drive the idea home.


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## WyomingSue

Good idea, duvija.  I'll give it a try.  We start gustar in a few weeks.


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## gengo

obz said:


> Some people have an easier time making the transition of _" I like -> thing" _to _"Thing pleases -> me"_ and spelling it out like this instead of just telling them _"it means to like"_ helps some.



Yes, and I was the first one in this thread to say so explicitly.  But that is only the first of two necessary steps.  The second is emphasizing that "Me gusta" does NOT mean, or translate to, "It pleases me," but rather "I like it."  There are other ways to express "It pleases me" in Spanish.



> The fact is that _"to like"_ and _"gustar" _are a compromise of translation (like many things) that can be explained or explored in may ways so long as the learner gets it in the end and gives up what he is used to.



There are many compromises in translation, but this is not one, because there is a virtually perfect mapping of the two verbs in meaning, although not in grammatical structure.  In other words, we don't have to compromise any of the meaning or nuance in translating these verbs.  The target reader will get the very same message as the source reader.


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## obz

Well, that's just all a mental conversation to be had one way or the other for the person learning. 
You have your way of thinking about it, but _"me gusta"_ certainly can mean _"it pleases me"_, which is so tightly synonymous with "I like it" that the difference can approach minutia. 
If that is out of the scope of your appreciation for internal interpretation so be it, but there are no absolutes.

Eventually, the learner will realize that it matters not whether it _means _"I like" or "it pleases me" and will adapt and assimilate to the usage in Spanish and abandon the mental anchor from English. Which is ultimately the goal for fluency.


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## Fer BA

obz said:


> Well, that's just all a mental conversation to be had one way or the other for the person learning.
> You have your way of thinking about it, but _"me gusta"_ certainly can mean _"it pleases me"_, which is so tightly synonymous with "I like it" that the difference can approach minutia.
> If that is out of the scope of your appreciation for internal interpretation so be it, but there are no absolutes.
> 
> Eventually, the learner will realize that it matters not whether it _means _"I like" or "it pleases me" and will adapt and assimilate to the usage in Spanish and abandon the mental anchor from English. Which is ultimately the goal for fluency.


 
I think that the way Duvija approaches is perfect for beginners. 

On the other hand, honestly, I don't se how "me gusta" can be "it pleases me"...my command of English is far from native level, but I see a whole semantic field between them, not minutia...it's like equating _water_ and _being wet_...


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## obz

Fer BA said:


> I think that the way Duvija approaches is perfect for beginners.



No te puedo expresar lo de acuerdo que estoy. Lo que dice Duvija refuerza mi punto.



> He disgusts me - (imaginary: he gusts me - he me gusts ) - él me gusta



Como no tenemos "gust" como verbo en inglés, "to please" ocupa su hipotético lugar. Diciendo en efecto lo mismo.




> On the other hand, honestly, I don't *see *how "me gusta" can be "it pleases me"...my command of English is far from native level, but I see a whole semantic field between them, not minutia....



Estimado Fer BA a mí, nunca me ha costado entenderte, tu conocimiento y control del inglés va más allá del inglés muchos nativos. 

Sin irnos por las ramas, atenderé a tu comentario

If something pleases me. I like it. 
If I like something, it pleases me.

Están tan estrechamente relacionados que la existencia de uno, engendra al otro. La única cuestión es de su origen, ¿la acción de afición viene de afuera al hablante y le llega, o es una que transmite él al objeto?. El sentido de afición no cambia. En español, es el primero, en inglés el segundo.   
Ya que "it pleases me" es algo poco común en el habla inglesa, se sigue entendiendo, y sigue significando lo mismo. Y por la naturaleza del verbo, se parece más a su hermano español "gustar".
Como bien apuntas, la diferencia es _semántica_... no tangible, ni apreciable, ni de substancia. Por lo tanto sí  la diferencia está al borde de ser minúscula e indigno de mencionar.




> it's like equating _water_ and _being wet_..



LOL.  Pues, ¿Cómo se mojó el mojado? No lo hizo sin agua.
No estoy de acuerdo con la yuxtaposición les has dado, pero aprecio el contraste.

Que todos paséis una buena noche


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## Uriel-

> On the other hand, honestly, I don't se how "me gusta" can be "it pleases me"...my command of English is far from native level, but I see a whole semantic field between them, not minutia...it's like equating _water_ and _being wet_...


I hate to break this to you, but every single textbook translates _le gusta _as "it pleases him" or "it is pleasing to him" in English.  And I do not exaggerate. Every one of them uses that translation.  (And, really, it doesn't make it that much easier for us, because that's a pretty rare construction in English, but they're trying to get the point across that he isn't doing the verb, the verb is being done to him.)


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## Fer BA

Obz:

First things first, thanks a lot for the compliment, I really appreciate it. So, and since flatering will get you everywhere  my point was that I can hate something that pleases me a lot (I don't do it, but, for the sake of the argument, to get drunk), and I can like something that doesn't please me (to stay sober). I know that we, hispanics, have a very twisted mind when it comes to pleasures.


Uriel:

I disagree, in _gustar_ it's me who does the action, it's not done to me, I'm the one who likes apples

Regarding your assertion that every single textbook...I use two main references WR and M-W for En-Es Es-En translations.

*From Merriam-Webster*

*Translation of GUSTAR*

transitive verb
1 *:* to taste

2 *:* to like <¿gustan pasar? *:* would you like to come in?> 

intransitive verb
1 *:* to be pleasing <me gustan los dulces *:* I like sweets> <a María le gusta Carlos *:* Maria is attracted to Carlos> <no me gusta que me griten *:* I don't like to be yelled at> 
2 *gustar de* *:* to like, to enjoy <no gusta de chismes *:* she doesn't like gossip> 
3 *como guste* *:* as you wish, as you like

...and WR translates it as _to like._

I think that you're confused by the spanish construction....I like apples, I eat the apples / *Me* gustan las manzanas, *me* como las manzanas


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## AstuWar

Uriel- said:


> They're trying to get the point across that he isn't doing the verb, the verb is being done to him.





Fer BA said:


> I disagree, in _gustar_ it's me who does the action, it's not done to me, I'm the one who likes apples.



Actually, in Spanish, _you _(or _who likes_) does not any action, but receives it (thus being the indirect object) from _the liked thing_ (Subject). Let's see it in a Spanish example:

_Me gustan las manzanas._ - ¿Cuál es el sujeto? Para saberlo cambio la persona del verbo, de plural a singular.
_Me gusta las manzanas._ - Obviamente está mal sintácticamente, ¿qué parte de la oración necesito cambiar para que sea correcta? (No vale el verbo).
_Me gusta la manzana._ - La respuesta era '_las manzanas_', es decir, el sujeto.

'_Me_' - ¿Complemento directo o indirecto? Sustituimos por '_la_' y por _'le_' para comprobarlo.
La gustan las manzanas. - Incorrecta, no es un CD.
_Le gustan las manzanas._ - Correcta, es un CI.

I think that is what Uriel meant when he said in Spanish _you_ don't _do_ the verb (gustar); since in English it is quite the other way, working as a usual verb: _I _(Subject) _like _(Verb) _apples _(Direct object)_._


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## obz

Fer BA said:


> Obz:
> 
> First things first, thanks a lot for the compliment, I really appreciate it. So, and since _*flattery *_will get you everywhere  my point was that I can hate something that pleases me a lot (I don't do it, but, for the sake of the argument, to get drunk), and I can like something that doesn't please me (to stay sober). I know that we, *Hispanics*, have a very twisted mind when it comes to pleasures.



Likewise I can love or like something I hate, and something can disgust and please me, all at the same time. The acts of pleasing, liking, displeasing, and disliking really still don't change in meaning.  

We scarcely say "This book pleases me", but in my feeble and liberal interpretation of the English language, there is no viable difference between that and "I like this book".

We can get into the nuances of_ "pleasing someone" _and _"liking someone" _and their various connotations in context, but in the most generic sense, in terms of things you enjoy, or find pleasing... there is no difference aside from the the origin and destination of the verb, the subject and object.



> *Me* gustan las manzanas, *me* como las manzanas


You're the OI in the first one and the apples are the subject. You aren't "doing" anything here syntactically (I won't dare to tell you how you see it in reality as a native, but the grammatical construction has you being "acted upon" and a passive receptor of an action).

In the second one the use of "me" is emphatic, because unless you are an apple tree, apples aren't a part of you, and you aren't eating part of yourself... unless of course we aren't seeing the orchard for the trees .
You are however the subject, and the CD (the apples) is the passive receptor of the action.

I can't say that these two examples detract from "pleases me" and "I like" bearing the same meaning in English and hence inheriting either in translation from "me gusta".


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## gengo

Fer BA said:


> I think that the way Duvija approaches is perfect for beginners.



Coincido.  He usado lo de "disgust" muchas veces para explicar cómo funciona el verbo gustar a mis compañeros angloparlantes, y sirve muy bien en esa calidad.



> On the other hand, honestly, I don't see how "me gusta" can be "it pleases me"...my command of English is far from native level, but I see a whole semantic field between them, not minutia...it's like equating _water_ and _being wet_...



¡Sí señor!  		

Pero sí sirve esta comparación para mostrar la "dirección" del verbo gustar, la cual es lo contrario de la del verbo to like.


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## duvija

No para enseñar, pero tienen tantos problemas con cuál es el sujeto y cuál el OD de 'gustar', porque no usan la teoría de 'Autolexical syntax' (Jerry Sadock) en la cual cada módulo tiene una estructura independiente, que normalmente coincide pero no siempre. 
Con 'gustar', 'las manzanas' es el Sujeto sintáctico, y 'me/yo' el sujeto semántico. Después se colapsan (hablamos de una sola manera) y ahí se ve la diferencia.
No puedo explicar toda la teoría aquí, pero es interesante.


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## Fer BA

duvija said:


> Con 'gustar', 'las manzanas' es el Sujeto sintáctico, y 'me/yo' el sujeto semántico. Después se colapsan (hablamos de una sola manera) y ahí se ve la diferencia.


 
Ese es mi punto, ¡gracias Duvija nuevamente!

La "dirección" a mi entender es parte de los estudios semánticos, no sintácticos, en ese sentido la "dirección" del verbo gustar es _desde mí hacia las manzanas_ (al igual que _to like_) aunque la construcción sintáctica parezca contradecir esto.

Los chicos -yo recuerdo vagamente haber pasado por este punto y recuerdo claramente habérselo enseñado a uno de mis sobrinos- dicen _yo gusto de las manzanas _y uno les enseña que se dice _me gustan las manzanas_, pero el sentido (y también aquí vale dirección) es yo -> gustar -> manzanas.

El sentido inverso se da, en castellano, con los verbos agradar o complacer. _Las manzanas me agradan_.


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## obz

> La "dirección" a mi entender es parte de los estudios semánticos, no sintácticos, en ese sentido la "dirección" del verbo gustar es _desde mí hacia las manzanas_ (al igual que _to like_) aunque la construcción sintáctica parezca contradecir esto.



And that is exactly how "it pleases me" works


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## Fer BA

I always thought it was the other way around....in _it pleases me _I thought that _somethings happens to me_, and in _I like it _I thought that _it's me who makes something to happen_.


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## obz

Fer BA said:


> I always thought it was the other way around....in _it pleases me _I thought that _somethings happens to me_, and in _I like it _I thought that _it's me who makes something _to_ happen_.



It's strange that you can see in inherent reversal of syntax with _"gutar"_, but not "please -> someone", the line I quoted from you just above shows an inherent acceptance of _"me gusta"_ being semantic, and it's really you that is "doing" something. 
Well, you are, you're making the decision that it's a_ "good thing"_. Same with _"it pleases me"_. What "pleases me" is just being itself, it doesn't even know that _"it is pleasing me"_... I have decided that based on it's qualities.
If you say to a friend "oye, que me gusta esa chica", 
¿ella tiene la menor idea de que _te está gustando_? Nope, because it's just an opinion, or expression of your interests. 

I like the smell of roses
The smell of roses pleases me.

I'm a victim of their charm either way.

Like you just well pointed out, yes from a syntactical standpoint, that is what happens... but really the "thing" does nothing. You decide that "it pleases you" or "you like it" or "te gusta" or "disfrutas de ello" and it has no involvement. It's the portrayal of a positive opinion of something, and it's pleasing nature in your eyes. The direction of the verb is _only semantics._


Fun discussion. Cheers


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## Fer BA

It's really fun, I like this kind of discussion, after your post and examples I´m thinking this:

We're too involved on who/what does what, and there's a dimension of something happening without any _volition _or movement from any _inner self _(however you want to call this, I'm just using those terms to confine us inside a light version of philosophical concepts), a dimension where nobody -or nothing- does anything. 

It's like the difference we establish between _seeing_ and _watching_. When I see roses, _it happens_ that I feel pleasure; when I watch at those specific roses, I do that because I like them. 

When I see them -I perceive them- there's something happening beyond my will, and whatever happens, pleases me. Neither the "thing", nor me, do anything. That's what I tried to explain as the direction from the "outside" to the "inside". And, in a way, I don't _decide_ that roses please me, it "just happens".

When I willfully watch at them, I'm doing something, on purpose, there's a movement from that _inner self _towards that object. That's the direction from the "inside" to the "outside". 

I understand that we're toying with two different meanings of _semantics. _Since we have _only semantics_ and _Semantics_ at play in here, is a good moment to say that my whole approach is based on _Semantics_, I know just one or two things about syntactics.

Thanks for the correction (to), too!


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## obz

> I don't _decide_ that roses please me, it "just happens".



Sí me faltaba mejor manera de decirlo, no he querido decir "decidir" como "he decidido quedarme en casa por la noche". Más bien...

_"te das cuenta de que te gusta la rosa"

_La pobre rosa queda ignorante de sus propias acciones


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## duvija

Then, are we talking 'semantics' or 'pragmatics'? because the fact that a rose pleases us, is beyond semantics. Even if we see a rose from far away, we know it's going to have a pleasant smell.

Saludos


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## Fer BA

Hi Duvija,

I hope I'm still inside semantics...my only point was about translating _me gusta_ as _I like (_and not as _they please me) _because they share a same semantic field....that's why I talked so much about the _direction_, which was the basis for the differencefor Gengo, AstuWar, Uriel and, at some point, for Obz.

And, from my perspective on semantics, we know that roses are pleasant, even from far away, that's part of what a rose means and that's part of the meaning we're born into and call world...._en las letras de _rosa _está la rosa



_


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