# Hindi-Urdu: enough / sufficiently



## amiramir

Hello all,

Yesterday I tried to say the following two sentences and was flummoxed:

1) "You are not old enough to do X."

Aap X karne ke liye kaafi baRe nahin hain."

2) "This apple is not ripe enough to be eaten."

Yeh seb khaaya jaane ke liye kaafi pakka nahin hai. 

Is kaafi correct in these instances? Or is there a word I should be using that better conveys the idea of 'sufficient?'

Thank you.


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## Dib

I am guessing, your formulations are intelligible. But the most common expression I hear for this idea in Hindi uses the word laayak (laa'iq/لائق):
1) aap (abhii bhii) X karne (ke) laayak/laa'iq baRe nahiiN (hue) haiN.
2) ye seb khaane laayak pakkaa nahiiN hai.

The formula is "enough X to do Y" = "Y karne laayak X". Note, however, that the passive voice may not be as common in Hindi in this context as in English. I am not sure, but "khaaye jaane laayak pakkaa" for "ripe enough to be eaten" is likely possible, but the active voice form "khaane laayak X" is commonly used to mean both "X enough to eat" and "X enough to be eaten".


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## tonyspeed

amiramir said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Yesterday I tried to say the following two sentences and was flummoxed:
> 
> 1) "You are not old enough to do X."
> 
> Aap X karne ke liye kaafi baRe nahin hain."
> 
> 2) "This apple is not ripe enough to be eaten."
> 
> Yeh seb khaaya jaane ke liye kaafi pakka nahin hai.
> 
> Is kaafi correct in these instances? Or is there a word I should be using that better conveys the idea of 'sufficient?'
> 
> Thank you.




What about?

aap itne(itni) baRe(baRii) nahiiN ki aap X kar sakeN

ye seb itnaa pakkaa nahiNN ki koii ise khaaeN


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## nizamuddin

abhi aap X karnay kay qabil nahi howay.
ye seb pakka howa nahi hay or khanay kay qabil nahi howa.


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## marrish

दीब जी का उत्तर बहुत अच्छा है। उन्होंने ऐसे ही सुना होगा इसलिए यह सही है चाहे इसका अनुवाद करें तो शब्द कुछ अलग होंगे। मैं टॉनीस्पीड जी के उत्तर से और भी सहमत हूँ। दीब जी ने हिंदी में अधिक कर्मणी प्रयोग से बचने का परामर्श दिया है, यह बात बहुत महत्त्वपूर्ण है। अंग्रेज़ी में भी कहें कि this apple is not ripe enough to eat मेरे विचार से उचित होगा।

कर्मणी (passive voice) इतना हिंदी में नहीं है जितना अंग्रेज़ी में मगर यह ज़रूर प्रयोग कर सकते है अगर वाक्य का निर्माण थोड़ा सा बलद लें जैसे टॉनीस्पीड जी ने बताया है। मैं भी स्वभावतः इसी प्रकार कहूँगा, "कि" शब्द के साथ: यह सेब इतना/उतना पक्का नहीं खाया जा सके। कि कोई, तुम, आप, तू इत्यादि इसे खाए, खा सके।

फिर भी खाने लायक़ पक्का बहुत सरल और संक्षिप्त है, जैसे निज़ामुद्दीन जी "क़ाबिल" शब्द बताते हैं। दोनों हिंदी में चलते हैं पर मुझ से पूछिए तो मैं लायक़ कहूँगा।
समस्या केवल इतनी है कि दोनों लायक़ और क़ाबिल के इन वाक्यों में कुछ और अर्थ निकल भी सकते हैं।


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## littlepond

I agree with both Dib jii's and tonyspeed jii's answers, except that I would say "pakaa" here, not "pakkaa".


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## mundiya

Personal preferences aside, the norm in this context is indeed "pakkaa" as you can see here.


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## littlepond

^ mundiya jii, I don't know about the dictionary, but it is wrong as far as I am concerned. A mere Google search for "पक्का आम" vs. "पका आम" should show you which word is the norm when it means "ripened". By the way, in the same dictionary that you pointed to me, "पका" with the meaning "ripe" exists.


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## Alfaaz

amiramir said:
			
		

> Yesterday I tried to say the following two sentences and was flummoxed:
> 
> 1) "You are not old enough to do X."
> 
> Aap X karne ke liye kaafi baRe nahin hain."
> 
> 2) "This apple is not ripe enough to be eaten."
> 
> Yeh seb khaaya jaane ke liye kaafi pakka nahin hai.
> 
> Is kaafi correct in these instances? Or is there a word I should be using that better conveys the idea of 'sufficient?'


 No, because کافی is a صفت while _enough_ is being used as a متعلق فعل in your English sentences!

In Urdu, perhaps the most convenient adverbs are Arabic-derived words with تنوین, because they are similar to _-ly_ in English. However, when such options are not present, a variety of other formations and patterns are used. Here are some possibilities for the sentences in the opening post:

ـــــــــــ طور پر سے
آپ ـــــــــــــــــــــ کرنے کے لیے کافی طور پر بڑے نہیں ہیں

یہ سیب (کھانے/کھائے جانے) کے لیے کافی طور سے پکا نہیں ہے


بالـــــــــــــــــــــ
آپ ـــــــــــــــــــــ کرنے کے لیے بالکفایت بڑے نہیں ہیں
یہ سیب (کھانے/کھائے جانے) کے لیے بالکفایت پکا نہیں ہے


اتنا/اتنی/اتنے ــــــــــــــــــــ (ہیں/نہیں) کہ (as mentioned above by tonyspeed SaaHib)
آپ ابھی اتنے بڑے نہین کہ ــــــــــــــــــــــ کریں

یہ سیب ابھی اتنا پکا نہیں کہ کھایا جا سکے

________ حسبِ
آپ ـــــــــــــــــــــ کرنے کے لیے حسبِ ضرورت/تقاضا/اقتضا بڑے نہیں ہیں
یہ سیب (کھانے/کھائے جانے) کے لیے حسبِ ضرورت/تقاضا/اقتضا پکا نہیں ہے

قابل، لائق، موزوں، مناسب، وغیرہ could also be used (as mentioned above by Dib SaaHib), but the sentences might have to be worded a specific way to avoid conveying a different meaning (as marrish SaaHib has suggested above).

عمر کے لحاظ سے فی الحال آپ کا یہ کرنا مناسب نہیں ہے
یہ سیب اتنا پکا نہیں کہ خوردنی ہو
If there are any mistakes, corrections would be appreciated as usual!


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## mundiya

littlepond said:


> ^ mundiya jii, I don't know about the dictionary, but it is wrong as far as I am concerned. A mere Google search for "पक्का आम" vs. "पका आम" should show you which word is the norm when it means "ripened". By the way, in the same dictionary that you pointed to me, "पका" with the meaning "ripe" exists.



It's not a case of wrong usage or an error because Platts and other dictionaries also provide the meaning of "ripened" for "pakkaa".  But you may be right about "pakaa" being the norm.  It could be mother tongue interference for me because Turner considers "pakkaa" to be a loan from Punjabi to Hindi.



> H. _pakkā_ ʻ cooked, ripe, mature, real ʼ (← P.)


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## marrish

Re: pakaa vs. pakkaa. It might be a P. borrowing but centuries old. My Farhang (1918), almost 100 years, has pakkaa for Urdu. My previous answer was in Hindi so I accept that I might have used this word due to "mother tongue interference" but I believe all is good. At least my spelling is confirmed by both Platts and Chaturvedi. pakaa makes also sense by way of "paknaa" but all sources I saw give pakkaa for a fruit  as "ripe". pakaa for "cooked in water, not in oil".


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## tonyspeed

tonyspeed said:


> ye seb itnaa pakkaa nahiNN ki koii ise khaaeN



I would like to correct my grammar: ye seb itnaa pakkaa nahiNN ki koii ise khaae


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## littlepond

^ It still remains an unnatural sentence, tonyspeed jii; no native speaker would use such a syntax.


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## Cilquiestsuens

I think the problem with the original sentence in the query is that the idea of pakka for a fruit is that it is either _*pakkaa*_ or not at all. There is no midway, it can't be a little *pakkaa*. So the idea of not sufficiently / not enough would be expressed differently.

_*yeh phal abhi kachchaa hai, khaayaa nahii.N jaataa... / khaayaa nahiiN jaa'egaa*_

_*woh laRkaa abhi chhoTaa hai, usko sigareT nahiN piinaa /pinii chaahiye*_

_*woh laRkaa abhi chhoTaa hai, us se jahaaz / vimaan nahii.N chalaayaa jaa'egaa
ya jahaaz / vimaan nahii.N chalegaa*_


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## littlepond

Well, "pakaa" has a gradation: any fruit ripens over time, so it is not a binary switch. So that's not an issue with any of the sentences proposed here. A fruit can very well be "little pakaa". An example:

"Yeh phal abhii thoRaa hii pakaa hai beTaa, thoRa aur intezaar kar."

I was simply saying that the syntax of some of the sentences here, though grammatically correct, will not be a natural syntax for native speakers.


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## marrish

_puuraa pakkaa nahiiN = abhii tak kachchaa_.
_thoRaa hii_ means not at all. So if I may, it doesn't exemplify a gradation.


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## littlepond

^ There is a difference of information given between "aam kachchaa hai" and "aam thoRaa hii pakaa hai": it is unfortunate if you are not able to see that.


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## marrish

I certainly can see it, I was just being nit-picky and pedantic.


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## kephalian

amiramir said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Yesterday I tried to say the following two sentences and was flummoxed:
> 
> 1) "You are not old enough to do X."
> 
> Aap X karne ke liye kaafi baRe nahin hain."
> 
> 2) "This apple is not ripe enough to be eaten."
> 
> Yeh seb khaaya jaane ke liye kaafi pakka nahin hai.
> 
> Is kaafi correct in these instances? Or is there a word I should be using that better conveys the idea of 'sufficient?'
> 
> Thank you.


The Kaafi in 1 and Jaane (Khanae) in 2 are redundant words. Aap X karne ke liye Bare nahin hain. and Yeh seb khane key liye paka nahin hai. No need for Kaafi at all!


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