# studio nozionistico



## L'equilibrista

Morning,
how could I translate this phrase?

_"Studio nozionistico della terminologia tecnica dell'abbigliamento..."_

I found "sciolistic" but it is a mistake of the dictionary! Sciolism is a different thing!

*"Study by notions of the technical clothing therminology..." ?*


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## Nerino

Propongo "based on a superficial knowledge". Ciao!


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## JoanTaber

Ciao Equi,
According to my Sansoni, "nozionistico" is a pejorative meaning "based on merely factual knowledge."  

I would suggest: "The _superficial_ study of technical terminology of wearing apparel."

Perhaps more context would help illuminate.

PS:  I see Nerino has the same suggestion!


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## L'equilibrista

Thank you for the suggestions


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## elfa

Ciao a tutti,

Ho problemi nella traduzione di questa frase:

           Volevo specificare il problema al quale ho applicato il mio “problem solving”: il tipo di corso (storia della moda) richiedeva agli studenti un tipo di studio nozionistico. 

Il mio tentativo:

I wanted to specify the problem to which I applied my "problem solving": the type of course (fashion history) required a type of notional study on the part of the students.

È proprio quest'idea di studio nozionistico che non ho capito. "Notional study" non ha nessun senso per me. Il contesto è questo: una persona sta completando un modulo per un posto di lavoro e spiega perchè ha risposto in un certo modo ad una delle domande.

Qualcuno mi potrebbe dare una mano? Grazie.


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## miri

Ciao elfa
Questo è il significato di "nozionistico":
conoscenza basata esclusivamente sull’apprendimento mnemonico e acritico di nozioni, notizie, dati  (De Mauro)


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## elfa

Grazie, miri, per la definizione ma non penso se si può dire "notional study" in inglese...


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## miri

No no, elfa, non si può, hai ragione! Maybe something like "purely factual" ....


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## Odysseus54

So how would you say that in English , knowing what the definition is in Italian ?

You are certainly in a better position than any of us Italians here to come out with a solid idiomatic translation, wouldn't you think so ?

Unless in English you do not distinguish between structural understanding- and data memorization-driven teaching and study styles.  But I find that hard to believe.


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## custard apple

I agree with miri in the sense of theoretical study.  That is the study is not applied to real life situations or problems.


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## elfa

No, Ody, we don't!


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## ZazieTheBeast

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=905110
Here the word sciolism is mentioned, even though I've never heard of it.

@ custard apple: I don't think you've got the meaning right: it has nothing to do with applications to real life. Nozionismo is when somebody studies something by heart, but without understanding anything of what he has been studying. For instance, it would be nozionismo if you were studying maths and you knew all the formulas and stuff, but without understanding their true meaning, why they work and why they are important


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## elfa

Thanks, guys. I think "theoretical study" is the one that fits the bill.

Grazie a tutti!


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## Odysseus54

elfa said:


> No, Ody, we don't!



That's interesting - I wonder if that is due to the fact that "nozionismo" is not practiced in the UK, or because you simply do not see a reason to define it as such.

Let me try to at least try and define "studio nozionistico" in English, the way I understand it :  the memorization of facts and data weakly , if at all, presented as a coherent pattern of interconnected phenomena and/or concepts.

An example of a possibly unavoidable "studio nozionistico" would be that for a traffic school written test.


And no, in my opinion "theoretical study" is not "studio nozionistico", which is superficial and anectodical in presentation - on the contrary real "theoretical study" is meant to be the deeper understanding of the patterns and links keeping the 'system' you are studying together.


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## elfa

Hi Ody,

I agree entirely with you and custard apple that "nozionismo" and "theoretical study" don't necessarily equate. But I think in this particular context, it's the best way to translate it. 

"Theoretical" doesn't necessarily mean a deeper understanding - it can also mean not getting down to the nitty gritty of something.  

I don't know why we don't study "nozionismo" in the UK. I had heard of it in Italian, and I understand what it is, but for some reason, we don't seem to see a reason to define it - at least, not in any of the studies I've undertaken.


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## Odysseus54

Ecco - io invece tradurrei " ... the course ( fashion history ) required of the students memorization instead of understanding ".


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## elfa

Ti capisco. Però, un possibile datore di lavoro magari non lo afferrebbe....


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## ZazieTheBeast

Però IMHO parlare di studio teorico è sbagliato e non c'entra nulla col nozionismo, che si può praticare sia nello studio teorico che in quello più applicato. Forse un concetto semplice e che gli si avvicina abbastanza, anche se non lo rende completamente, è quello di studio superficiale, quindi si potrebbe tradurre "superficial/shallow study"


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## Odysseus54

elfa said:


> Ti capisco. Però, un possibile datore di lavoro magari non lo afferrebbe....




... e soprattutto farebbe apparire il candidato come un "capiscione" ipercritico, potenzialmente un "high maintenance primadonna" ..

Su questo hai perfettamente ragione.  Auguri a te e al candidato


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## miri

Capisco il problema evidenziato da elfa e Ody: lo studente rischierebbe di far la figura del saputello... Tuttavia, per coloro che consulteranno questo thread, mi sembra utile riportare che vari dizionari (Babylon, Corriere della Sera. Hoepli, Dictionarist.com) traducono "nozionismo" (che è sempre inteso in senso dispregiativo) con "superficial factual knowledge", quindi "studio nozionistico" potrebbe essere reso con "*a superficial factual approach to learning".*
C'è poi un articolo, che mi pare molto interessante, il quale parlando di stili di apprendimento, differenzia "deep" da *"surface" approach to learning* ed elenca le caratteristiche che contraddistinguono l'uno rispetto all'altro. QUI


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## Odysseus54

"Superficial factual knowledge" seems to be a widely used term.

Now that you started me on this, perhaps, simplifying to save ink and trees,  "superficial factual learning" could be a decent translation for "nozionismo".

But what about "nozionista"  ?  How do we cook that ?


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## miri

You mean "nozionistico", I suppose, Ody.
 If  you do, I'd say "*a superficial factual approach to..."*


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## Odysseus54

Both - nozionistico as well as nozionista.  The adjectives derived from "nozionismo", which is the "superficial factual approach to learning".

" Il punto di vista nozionistico nello studio della storia e' di ..."

" Un insegnante nozionista puntera' prima di tutto a ... "

I was just trying to squeeze a couple of adjectives out of your expressions, but my inspiration died out


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## miri

"Content-oriented" point of view, teacher  ??
 But I am afraid it is far from being self-explanatory  ...


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## Odysseus54

"Content-oriented" wouldn't work, because all knowledge is about content.

In fact, your solution ( which is good, as far as I can tell ) has to qualify "factual" with "superficial".

The trouble is that "superficially factual", which is where my brain wanted to take me, is a perfectly good expression, except that it means something totally different.

I'm calling it a day.


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## miri

What might help us is context. Where would we find the term "nozionistico" other than in the teaching/learning field?
Here  in the chapter called "Professors' Orientation and Approaches to Teaching (page 43) the phrase "content-oriented teacher-centred" approach is used to define what we call "nozionismo".


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## You little ripper!

ZazieTheBeast said:


> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=905110
> Here the word sciolism is mentioned, even though I've never heard of it.
> 
> @ custard apple: I don't think you've got the meaning right: it has nothing to do with applications to real life. Nozionismo is when somebody studies something by heart, but without understanding anything of what he has been studying. For instance, it would be nozionismo if you were studying maths and you knew all the formulas and stuff, but without understanding their true meaning, why they work and why they are important


OP also translates it sciolistic. So does the online Hoepli  (it must be a different edition to the one you checked, miri).


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## miri

Oh yes, Charles, it's true, but since nobody seemed to be familiar with "sciolistic" I quoted the other definition.
nozionìstico
pl m *-ci* a sciolistic
	• *apprendimento nozionistico* sciolistic learning; *conoscenza nozionistica* superficial factual knowledge.(Hoepli)

Besides, Dictionary.com defines sciolistic only as superficial knowledge, while "nozionismo" also implies learning by heart a lot of names, dates,facts ...


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Oh yes, Charles, it's true, but since nobody seemed to be familiar with "sciolistic" I quoted the other definition.
> nozionìstico
> pl m *-ci* a sciolistic
> • *apprendimento nozionistico* sciolistic learning; *conoscenza nozionistica* superficial factual knowledge.(Hoepli)
> 
> Besides, Dictionary.com defines sciolistic only as superficial knowledge, while "nozionismo" also implies learning by heart a lot of names, dates,facts ...


I wouldn't presume to say that it's the best translation for 'nozionistico' because I've never heard of the word either. I notice that here it suggests a closer definition to the Italian meaning of the word:

_Some critics of state-mandated testing say it is an exercise in sciolism that doesn’t really demonstrate a student’s grasp of the material studied.

_But maybe I'm reading to much into it. 

P.S.  The  'superficial knowledge' definition of the word 'sciolistic' is quite broad and could also include learning stuff by heart without really understanding it.


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## miri

Very interesting, instead!
When I'm less sleepy I want to search for other examples ...


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## Antipodes

Hello Forum members,

A suggestion for _un tipo di studio nozionistico:_ *a type of rote-learning*. 

Rote-learning is the learning by heart of facts and figures.


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## custard apple

OK, I think I understand what the problem is.  Theoretical study in Britain and Australia is like "rote learning" and conveys a more negative sfumatura than in Italy.


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## Antipodes

custard apple said:


> OK, I think I understand what the problem is.  Theoretical study in Britain and Australia is like "rote learning" and conveys a more negative sfumatura than in Italy.



Custard Apple, I think that theoretical study is the opposite of practical study, and is not necessarily learning by rote.
For example, in technical studies, students may spend time in class on theory, and then put this theoretical knowledge into practice in on-the-job placements.
Rote learning is learning by heart, as once children learnt arithmetical tables and as I remember learning the kings and queens of England and their dates of accession to and vacating the throne!  The latter was NOT a useful exercise, although I am happy to have been through former!


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## You little ripper!

Antipodes said:


> Hello Forum members,
> 
> A suggestion for _un tipo di studio nozionistico:_ *a type of rote-learning*.
> 
> Rote-learning is the learning by heart of facts and figures.


I think that's probably the best option since it's something most of us would understand. 

rote-learning


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## Antipodes

I found the following on Dictionary.com, which I find to be a good definition of sciolism, with some interesting quotes.  

_http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2004/07/24.html

Word of the Day
Saturday, July 24, 2004
sciolism
\SY-uh-liz-uhm\ , noun:
1.
Superficial knowledge; a superficial show of learning.
See the full Dictionary.com entry |See Synonyms on Thesaurus.com
Click here to find out more!
Quotes:
Religion was mostly superstition, science for the most part sciolism, popular education merely a means of forcing the stupid and repressing the bright, so that all the youth of the rising generation might conform to the same dull, dead level of democratic mediocrity.
-- Charles Waddell Chesnut, Conjure Tales and Stories of the Color Line
American classics teachers' choice in the early national period to focus on grammar rather than other aspects of the classical inheritance resulted from their primary pedagogical goals: to mold gentlemen who navigated between sciolism and pedantry, ministers who could intelligently read the Bible, and citizens who were moral and dutiful.
-- Caroline Winterer, The Culture of Classicism
Origin:
Sciolism comes from Late Latin sciolus, "a smatterer," from diminutive of Latin scius, "knowing," from scire, "to know." One who has only superficial knowledge is a sciolist.

_However it still leaves us with initial query: how to translate _*un tipo di studio nozionistico

*_I am coming to conclusion that the only way around it is to paraphrase, as suggested in earlier postings.

This takes me back to Garzanti:

_http://www.garzantilinguistica.it/interna_eng.html


nozionismo       s.m. *superficial factual knowledge;* sciolism._

So perhaps: _a type of study relying on a superficial, factual approach to the topic/subject._


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## elfa

Hi guys,

I agree with custard apple. We're still not getting round the fact that all your suggestions have negative connotations in English. I've used "theoretical" because it doesn't. "Sciolistic" is great, miri, but unfortunately most people have never heard of it...


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## ZazieTheBeast

But nozionismo has a negative connotation in italian, too. It is considered as something teachers should definitely avoid


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## elfa

In that the person looking for work who wrote it in her application has also misused the term...!


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## ZazieTheBeast

I don't know about that, but there's no way somebody could brag about his nozionismo. At least, to me it would seem pretty weird


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## miri

I fully agree with ZTB! As I pointed out in post #16 *"nozionismo"* is considered a *derogatory term* and I thought that it had a negative connotation in the sentence elfa provided. Doesn't the author say that he/she applied a problem-solving technique to what was merely rote-learning (this suggestion is excellent!) of the hystory of fashion ???


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## Odysseus54

I agree with Zazie - our ideas on learning value deep understanding and critical thinking as the main goal.  Deep understanding is about the relationships between phenomena : cause and effect links, mutual feedback , comprehension of the way the system as a whole works.  Critical thinking is the method that allows you to build deep understanding from raw data.

"Studio nozionistico", on the contrary, is about memorizing the highest level ( in the sense of superficial ) data , either to support some vocational training ( the better scenario, since the practical side of it then may provide the opportunity for a deeper understanding ) or as preparation for a test.  Here in the US this latter and particularly malignant version of 'nozionismo' includes courses on how to pass exams.  That's when process takes over and the goals of studying become secondary.

Applying this to the study of a language, "un approccio nozionistico" would be to learn a number of prefabbed "ready to use" sentences .  The better approach would be to learn the structure of the language, become familiar with the roots and prefixes and suffixes and other modifiers, and to get an understanding of the etimology.  

Contrasting the two ways of learning has been , and I believe still is, although I am not sure, an ongoing discussion in Italy.


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## ZazieTheBeast

This is slightly off topic, but here's an excerpt from an episode of a TV show called Gilmore Girls which represents well what we mean by nozionismo. Rory is studying for a difficult test on Shakespeare and her mother Lorelai is helping her in a study session:

LORELAI: ‘The Comedy of Errors’ - written?

RORY: 1590

LORELAI: Published?

RORY: 1698

LORELAI: Ooh 1623 - close

RORY: How is 1623 close?

LORELAI: You got the ‘16’ part right.

RORY: I was off by 75 years

LORELAI: Well anything under 100 years is close.

RORY: What kind of rule is that?

LORELAI: I’m running the study session here. Ok. Richard III?

RORY: 1591

LORELAI: [Makes buzzer sound]

RORY: ’93?

LORELAI: [Makes buzzer sound]

RORY: ’96?

LORELAI: [Makes buzzer sound]

RORY: Ok, that’s getting really annoying now

LORELAI: [Makes small buzzer sound]

[Pan to later the save evening]

[Lorelai comes into living room with coffee]

LORELAI: Go on, I’m listening.

RORY: The sonnets are 154 poems of 14 lines

LORELAI: Except?

RORY: Except for 126 which is 12 lines.

LORELAI: Good.

RORY: They are written in iambic pentameter.

LORELAI: Except?

RORY: Except 145 which is in tetrameter.

LORELAI: Rock on sister.

RORY: Really?

LORELAI: Not one mistake.

Now, this is pure nozionismo. Who cares to know the exact year "The comedy of errors" was written or, even worse, published! In Italy, the focus would be on the meaning of Shakespeare's works, what he wanted to convey, how he was innovative in his era and the relation between his works and the social context in which he lived.


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## Rosalia Sg

Ciao a tutti,

The English do study in this way, and they call it "learning by rote".  Often young children first "learn by rote".  They subsequently develop an understanding of the things they have learnt by rote, and then they apply that knowledge.  To "learn by rote", means to learn data without necessarily interpreting, understanding or applying it.  

I hope this helps.


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## Jcharlie

che ne direste dell'espressione semi-skilled ?


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