# Зал



## Assiduous student

<...>
Moved from different abundance (lingustic term) 

ты в зале, а она в спальне


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## Narkom

<...>

"Living room" is "гостиная", not "зал". Unless you live in a palace or in a castle


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## Maroseika

Narkom said:


> "Living room" is "гостиная", not "зал". Unless you live in a palace or in a castle


Surprisingly, many people nowadays use *зал *in a sense гостиная or большая комната (the biggest in the apartments). I think it has come from some regional dialect and got accustomed.


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## Narkom

To me "зал" is a "hall".


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> To me "зал" is a "hall".



That's good information. I learnt гостиная of course, but then when I lived (around 6 months) in the Ukraine, I was told not to say that - like some outdated word. Of course, зал is very non-specific. In contest, it can mean "the gym, sports hall". Maybe Ukrainians just don't like the word. I think they have a lot of words that they just don't use there - like, they only maintain the most colloquial stuff. I was told not to say занавески, but only шторы for "curtains". Of course, you just adapt to what people say around you.


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## Maroseika

In Russia гостиная also seems to become obsolete in the everyday speech. In Moscow большая комната was mostly used, and now I hear зал more and more often.


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## Awwal12

Maroseika said:


> Surprisingly, many people nowadays use *зал *in a sense гостиная or большая комната (the biggest in the apartments).


Exactly "за́л", not "за́ла"?.. If I remember correctly, I've read it only once and it has surprised me a lot.


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## Maroseika

Awwal12 said:


> Exactly "за́л", not "за́ла"?.. If I remember correctly, I've read it only once and it has surprised me a lot.


No, зал of course. As you can see from the google link above, it's really widely used nowadays. 
Купить диван в зал, квартира с большим залом, дизайн зала etc.


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## Narkom

People may call rooms in their aparments anyway they want.
But if you say, "I'm sitting in the living room" it means "Я сижу в гостиной",  in the room which *I* call "Гостиная". The room in a house or apartment that is used for relaxing in and entertaining guests.

And you can say, "I'm sitting in the hall" if you prefer to call "зал " the room you are sitting in.


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## Awwal12

Гостиная is, in a very transparent fashion, a guest room. Trouble is, most Russians live in apartment buildings and seldom have the luxury of designating a room for having guests only, so the practical concept of "гостиная" is a bit vague. In my apartment there are just "большая комната" and "маленькая комната" (although now I could actually call the bigger room "гостиная").


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> People may call rooms in their aparments anyway they want.
> But if you say, "I'm sitting in the living room" it means "Я сижу в гостиной",  in the room which *I* call "Гостиная". The room in a house or apartment that is used for relaxing in and entertaining guests.
> 
> And you can say, "I'm sitting in the hall" if you prefer to call "зал " the room you are sitting in.



It's always interesting to note variation among native speakers, which is absolutely normal in the largest language spoken in Europe. Strictly speaking, there is a word in English for a room where you entertain guests, and that is a "reception room", but it's normally used more often by estate agents/realtors.


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## Narkom

No, in Russia "reseption room" is for visitors. Not for guests.


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> No, in Russia "reseption room" is for visitors. Not for guests.



I don't think there is a genuine difference. But it's nice that you stick to the correct terms. I hope you stick to the correct terms for everything. I saw a Youtube video by an American who lived in Russian and spoke Russian and he explained how annoying it was to hear бизнес-ланч, totally incorrectly pronounced (or not given the English pronunciation), instead of the correct деловой обед. This sort of thing is much more important than what you call the living room, as, after all, зал is Russian word.


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## Narkom

Guests are supposed to be your friends. 
Visitors are as you said, "estate agents, realtors" and so long.


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> Guests are supposed to be your friends.
> Visitors are as you said, "estate agents, realtors" and so long.



No one in any country anywhere has a room that is designated for guests who are you're friends but not for visitors. There is no such concept. This has, in all of human history, never existed anywhere.


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## Eirwyn

Assiduous student said:


> This sort of thing is much more important than what you call the living room, as, after all, зал is Russian word.


…except it isn't.



> Происходит от нем. Sааl «зал»; заимствование появилось при Петре I в форме _зала_; наряду с этим — _сала_, _сал_ (1707 г. у Куракина) — из польск. sala или франц. salle, также герм. происхождения (ср.: франкск. sal).


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## Assiduous student

Eirwyn said:


> …except it isn't.



OK, it's a more established word. Old borrowings are part of the language. I mean, can you imagine if the room in question were called ливинг-румы in Russian?


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## Narkom

Assiduous student said:


> No one in any country anywhere has a room that is designated for guests who are you're friends but not for visitors. There is no such concept. This has, in all of human history, never existed anywhere


Visitors are "посетители" and "reception room" is "приемная".
For apartment I would call it, "lobby".


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> Visitors are "посетители" and "reception room" is "приемная".
> For apartment I would call it, "lobby".



No, a lobby is not a reception room. It is not big enough to receive guests in. A lobby in English is an area big enough for about 2 people to stand in where you might hang your coat. You could stand in the lobby while talking to the milkman, but it has nothing to do with being a reception room or even a гостиная.


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## Narkom

ОК  Call it "guest room" but not "reception room". In Russia "reception room" is for offices and hotels. It will be odd if you say, "Я принял молочника в приемной".


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## Eirwyn

Assiduous student said:


> OK, it's a more established word. Old borrowings are part of the language. I mean, can you imagine if the room in question were called ливинг-румы in Russian?


Today's barbarism is a tomorrow's "established word". "Бизнес-ланч" does sound disgusting but it's just as understandable as "деловой обед".


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## Assiduous student

Narkom said:


> ОК  Call it "guest room" but not "reception room". In Russia "reception room" is for offices and hotels. It will be odd if you say, "Я принял молочника в приемной".



That my be приемная in Russian, but do you mean the hotel lounge or foyer in English (прихожая? передняя?)? In England, where an estate agent's brochure says "this house has two reception rooms on the first floor and two bedrooms on the second floor", what is meant is that downstairs there are two rooms that you can in fact use for whatever you want, but they are situated such that they would suit use as a living room and a dining room. Or a living room and a study. Or in fact, whatever combination you can think of. It has nothing to do with a lobby to receive brief visits from visitors in. (You stand in the lobby when the postman hands you your post. He doesn't even step into the lobby.)


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## annebakerim

It all depends on the region of Russia, basically the word "за́л" means the big main room in the apartment, long ago instead of this word was the word  "за́ла"


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## annebakerim

"Гостиная" is also used, but not so casual.


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## Vovan

"Гостиная" ничем не лучше "зала" применительно к тому, что мы в России знаем как "большая комната" в квартире.

Смотрим толкования "гостиной":

Словарь Ожегова:
Комната для приёма гостей. ("Для отдыха" не указано.)​Малый академический:
1) Комната в квартире, богатом доме для приема гостей. ("Для отдыха" не указано.)​2) Общая комната для отдыха, приема посетителей и т. п. в общежитиях, гостиницах, домах отдыха, санаториях и т. п. (Указано, что в т.ч. "для отдыха", но квартира почему-то не упомянута.)​
И только в более новых словарях Ефремовой и Кузнецова видим несколько обтекаемое толкование ("комната, *обычно *используемая для приема гостей"), позволяющее предположить, что "большая комната" в квартире и "гостиная" - это якобы одно и то же:

Словарь Кузнецова:
1. Одна из комнат дома (квартиры), используемая обычно для приёма гостей.​2. Общая комната для отдыха, приёма посетителей и т.п. в общежитии, гостинице, санатории и т.п. (Квартира не упомянута.)​Словарь Ефремовой:
1) Одна из комнат дома, квартиры, обычно используемая для приема гостей.​2) Общая комната, предназначенная для отдыха проживающих в общежитии, гостинице, доме отдыха, санатории и т.п. (Квартира не упомянута.)​


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## Assiduous student

Но, важно чтобы русскоговорящие знали что в этом значении (гостиная), зал не переводится в английский как "hall". Если говорят "hall" о частным доме, скорее всего, это будет маленький коридор между комнат на первом этаже.


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