# Slovenian: povzročati nemir



## *cat*

Hello,

I'm having some trouble with translation of "povzročati nemir" (Učenci povzročajo nemir.) to English ... Please, help me.

- to cause disorder (Students are causing disorder.)

Would that be ok?

And ... are "learners" in fourth class (grade school) "students" or maybe "pupils"?

Thank you.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

What about to cause havoc? You can say Students are being disobedient or misbehaved.
I'd say people that attend fourth class are pupils.


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## *cat*

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> What about to cause havoc? You can say Students are being disobedient or misbehaved.
> I'd say people that attend fourth class are pupils.



Isn't "havoc" more convenient for "uničevanje" or "opustošenje"? Something that mother Nature or army would do? 
It's about student/pupils that are smarter than rest of the children and so they're bored in the classroom and they "povzročajo nemir" ...


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## dihydrogen monoxide

Well, depends on how disobedient they are. You could say cause disorder, but I think havoc is not far off, depends on the context.
In this case I'd say disobedient or misbehaved. This may sound awkward but what about "disturb the classroom", if you could say such a thing. 
Maybe you should try cause a racket. 
Havoc can be said for nature but what about if students run amock and start destroying things in the classroom, then I think you could say they cause havoc because of their behaviour.
I don't know, maybe your suggestion's better, we'll se what others think.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

Just found a link where it says that students cause havoc.


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## TriglavNationalPark

I would say that the students are *being disruptive* / are *disrupting the class*. This isn't a literal translation, but I think it conveys what you're trying to say.

"Pupil" sounds excessively formal and somewhat old-fashioned in AmE, but it's still common in BrE (more info HERE).


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## dihydrogen monoxide

It could be said disruptive,but would you agree with disturbing the classroom, since I've heard that expression too.


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## TriglavNationalPark

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> It could be said disruptive,but would you agree with disturbing the classroom, since I've heard that expression too.


 
"Disturb" is fine; I'm just more likely to use "disrupt" when talking about a class or any group of people engaged in an activity. You can disturb people who are sleeping, for instance, but you can't "disrupt" them. In other words, "disrupt" is a bit more specfic than "disturb".

For what it's worth, Google returns more hits for "disrupt the class" than "disturb the class", but both are very common -- and they're both correct.


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## sokol

TriglavNationalPark said:


> "Pupil" sounds excessively formal and somewhat old-fashioned in AmE, but it's still common in BrE (more info HERE).


As panjandrum says in this thread, "pupils" is used in BE up to secondary school - at some point teachers will switch from "pupil" to "student".

And if you look at textbook of British publishing houses you will find that the term "pupil's book" is used especially for primary education (when you google it you'll see that most of those have primary school style covers ) while for secondary school nowadays "student's book" (student book, students' book) is preferred.

So taking all this into account, and to be on the safe side, I'd use "pupil" only for primary school children, but "student" for secondary and higher education.


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## TriglavNationalPark

sokol said:


> As panjandrum says in this thread, "pupils" is used in BE up to secondary school - at some point teachers will switch from "pupil" to "student".
> 
> And if you look at textbook of British publishing houses you will find that the term "pupil's book" is used especially for primary education (when you google it you'll see that most of those have primary school style covers ) while for secondary school nowadays "student's book" (student book, students' book) is preferred.
> 
> So taking all this into account, and to be on the safe side, I'd use "pupil" only for primary school children, but "student" for secondary and higher education.


 
You're right about BrE. AmE, however, tends to use "student" in both cases. "Pupil" isn't wrong, but it's fairly rare. (Since AmE is the standard of English with which I'm most familiar, I didn't even realize that BrE still commonly uses "pupil" until I read some of the posts in that English Only thread.)


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## dihydrogen monoxide

TriglavNationalPark said:


> You're right about BrE. AmE, however, tends to use "student" in both cases. "Pupil" isn't wrong, but it's fairly rare. (Since AmE is the standard of English with which I'm most familiar, I didn't even realize that BrE still commonly uses "pupil" until I read some of the posts in that English Only thread.)


 
I don't know if you can answer this one, but would an American aged over 50 use and know of the word pupil? Could he have used it in his lifetime.


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## TriglavNationalPark

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> I don't know if you can answer this one, but would an American aged over 50 use and know of the word pupil? Could he have used it in his lifetime.


 
I would say that an American aged over 50 (or under 50, for that matter) is likely to *know* the word pupil, but fairly unlikely to *use* it, at least in most everyday contexts.

Here are a few quotes from American and Canadian users who participated in the thread I linked to above (note that the third user quoted has a slightly different experience with the word than the first two):



> "the word _pupil_ is uncommon and it would certainly sound strange to me. All the teachers and parents I know only ever talk about "students". Unlike the example from British English above, you'd probably never hear a sentence like "My Tommy is a pupil at _________."


 


> When I taught secondary school 25 years ago, I always referred to my _students_, and this was also the universal practice of my fellow teachers. I never called them "pupils", nor did I ever hear any other teacher use the word, although I certainly am not ignorant of the existence of the term.


 


> If the 12 year old boy attends school he could be called either a pupil or a student. I hear both terms used in the western U.S. An instructor is more apt to use the word pupil to refer to those being instructed and a parent would be more apt to use the word student to refer to their child.


 
I've heard the word "pupil" used in the United States, but almost always in very formal contexts. It's rare and somewhat archaic in everyday speech, where "student" is the preferred term for anyone receiving a formal education. As is often the case, however, the use may vary from region to region, even within the U.S.

As for the U.S. media, a Google News search returns five current hits for "elementary school pupil," but 262 for "elementary school student."


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## *cat*

Oh, I had so much to read ... Very interesting! Thank you all.

I'll write that "pupils are disrupting the class".


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