# Malay / Indonesian: mutual intelligibility



## yuki1212

Hi everyone! Can anyone tell me how different these two languages are? Can Malay and Indonesian speakers easily understand each other?

Thanks!


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## henriyo

Hello,

Malay and Indonesian have similar vocabularies, but mostly with different meaning. The pronunciation is also different. Malay is influenced by English, so I often hear Malaysians mix English and Malay.

I have met a young Malaysian and we had a little chat, I was speaking Indonesian and he Malay, we could not understand each other easily, because as I said some similar vocabularies are not similar, but have different meaning.

example:
car >malay: kereta, id: mobil
while in Indonesian 'kereta' means train.


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## imalin

Hi.

Malay words are mostly influenced by other languages, because our nation was under several different colonizers before we obtained independence. For instance, the word 'fork' in Malay is 'garfu', taken from the Dutch. These foreign words are used by the locals and over the years, the meaning might differs from the original word.

Although the Malay and Indonesian language have some similar vocabs, the meaning may be different. Plus, the Indonesian language itself has many different dialects (the country is bigger and have more people) and they also use slangs, whereas the Malay language is standardised and used in daily communication by Malaysians, regardless of their race. Local dialects (there are a few) are not incorporated into the standard Malay language. That is why Malay and Indonesian users can't understand each other quite easily. 

Another interesting fact to note, Malaysians prefer to try and use the Indonesian language while speaking to an Indonesian, instead of using the Malay language. We truly have an accommodating nature. Haha. That's why Henriyo says Malaysians like to mix Malay and English. It's true. We like to assimilate other languages into ours.


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## palomnik

Seen from the outside looking in, the two languages appear incredibly similar.  There is some variation in common vocabulary (particularly for modern things for which words were borrowed either from Dutch or English), and after a while you can pretty easily detect the difference in pronunciation.

Malay tends, I think, to be more standardized - not surprising, considering that for many residents of Malaysia the native language is either Chinese or Tamil, neither of which is related to Malay, so a level of standardization for intercultural communication is desirable.  In Indonesia there are a plethora of languages closely related to Indonesian which are the first language for many people - such as Javanese or Balinese, to name two of the larger ones - and these tend to affect the way these people speak Indonesian.


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## imalin

palomnik said:


> Seen from the outside looking in, the two languages appear incredibly similar. There is some variation in common vocabulary (particularly for modern things for which words were borrowed either from Dutch or English), and after a while you can pretty easily detect the difference in pronunciation.
> 
> Malay tends, I think, to be more standardized - not surprising, considering that for many residents of Malaysia the native language is either Chinese or Tamil, neither of which is related to Malay, so a level of standardization for intercultural communication is desirable. In Indonesia there are a plethora of languages closely related to Indonesian which are the first language for many people - such as Javanese or Balinese, to name two of the larger ones - and these tend to affect the way these people speak Indonesian.


 
I agree. In Malaysia, local dialects are not used by a large group. Only people from certain states have their own dialect, but it is used among themselves. When talking to other Malaysians, they use the standardized one.


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## yuki1212

Thanks so much!  I have learnt a lot.


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## jazyk

> For instance, the word 'fork' in Malay is 'garfu', taken from the Dutch.


It actually comes from Portuguese garfo, "fork". Fork in Dutch is vork.


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## turkjey5

Does anyone know how similar or different these two are? How about pronunciation or accent, do they sound about the same or are there differences?
Thanks


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## stupoh

I've written a couple paragraphs but then I searched Wikipedia and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Malay_and_Indonesian . It's basically saying everything that I wanted to say and more.


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## ns2011

Hi all... 
The languages are mutually intelligible. They come from the same Malay language. The Indonesian language was adopted from the Riau Malay which is quite close in distance to modern Peninsular Malaysia. 
There are thousands of languages in Indonesia, with Javanese being the majority spoken (by the majority ethnic). However, Malay was adopted as the national language because it has been the lingua franca all over the archipelago for centuries, so it is only natural that Malay was adopted as the basis of Indonesian national language -- as opposed to Javanese which is very complicated in nature - they vary so much in area and also in rank (the refined, middle and common/rough Javanese). This was considered a deterent to unity by our founding fathers. 
Then in its development - the Malaysian Malay and Indonesian Malay developed in different directions first due to political separation. Indonesia was occupied by the Ducth and Malaysia by the Brits. This can be seen in the alphabet and the absorption of modern words such as 'televisyen' in Malay and 'televisi' in Indonesian - 'polis' and 'polisi' (police-politie) - 'Mac' and 'Maret' (March-Maart) and so on. 
Some words even evolved in different directions. For instance the word 'percuma' - in Malay and old Indonesian it means gratis, or without paying -- but in Indonesian it now means 'no use' or 'worthless' -- so the sign 'Admission free' in Malay would be 'Masuk Percuma' -- and Indonesian would think 'what? why would we enter if it's no use' hehe.. sorry just a joke... in Indonesian it would read: 'Masuk Gratis' or simply 'Gratis'. 
Another example would be the word for cars ... in Malay it is 'kereta' -- the same word in Indonesian means 'train' (and the word for car is 'mobil') -- maybe it's similar development as the English 'car'.  
Hope this shed some light


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## キズナ

Malaysian and Indonesian people speak in different accents,too.I would say it'd be something like the difference between British acent and American accent and I would say that Indonesian accent represents British and Malaysian accent represents American. The Malays don't speak in 'pure' Bahasa Melayu as how many Americans speak English in that kind of way,too(that's what many people say and I agree).This is just in my opinion because Malaysian people speak in a very colloquial lanugage.Our casual conversation and the correct Malay are so different.I'd say that for a foreigner who learns Malay will take some time to get used to understand us.As for Indonesia,I realize that they speak better than us because they still speak according to its right grammar and their pronounciation is excatly as how the words are written.But Malays do not pronounce exactly the way the word is written.For example,
SEPULUH(Ten) is pronounced like this : Se-pu-lOh
Saya(I/me) : Sa-ye (this ye sound is similar to that of english's 'a' of 'a book,a dog,etc..)

I hope this is clear enough as for the pronounciation.


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## ns2011

キズナ said:


> Malaysian and Indonesian people speak in different accents,too.I would say it'd be something like the difference between British acent and American accent and I would say that Indonesian accent represents British and Malaysian accent represents American. The Malays don't speak in 'pure' Bahasa Melayu as how many Americans speak English in that kind of way,too(that's what many people say and I agree).This is just in my opinion because Malaysian people speak in a very colloquial lanugage.



Yes, Indonesians from different regions speak with different accents because of the influence of the local language. I wouldn't generalise an 'Indonesian accent' because there is none. The Jakarta accent/dialect is quite widely used because of the influence of the film and music industry, and even more so from soap operas. As for 'pure' ... you probably mean 'formal' -- in Bahasa Indonesia, formal language are mostly used in formal documents, newspapers and newscasts or other formal settings. In spoken/colloquilal languange, a more relaxed tone and choice of words are used, this also depends on who is speaking (among friends, parents and child etc etc). 

The Indonesian language also develops relatively fast, in the sense that there are words that are commonly used in the '60s and '70s that are practically 'abandoned'! The language receives a lot of new words from regional languages, sanscrit words to describe modern items, and even influences from films and commercials! For example for the colour 'orange' the newer generation would use 'oren' and rarely use the word 'oranye' (from the Dutch 'oranje') or an older word 'jingga'. For 'strawberry', more commonly the word 'stroberi' is used instead of 'arbei' (from the Dutch 'aardbeijen')... pomegranate: 'buah pome' instead of 'delima' and the list goes on...


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## Adidaya

I am Malaysian and been educated in Standard Malay. When I listen to Indonesian pop songs with Standard Indonesian lyrics, it is 100% intelligibility and vice versa for Indonesians.

When I listen to speeches by Soekarno made in the 40s and early 50s, it is 100% intelligibility. When I listen to Indonesian academics discussing various subjects in standard Indonesian, it is 95% intelligibility.

When I listen to Maluku Malay creole dialect 90% intelligibility. 

Basemah, Riau, and Bangka-Belitung dialetcs which are similar to the way Standard Malaysian speaks 90% intelligibility. Watched Lashkar Pelangi, thought it was shot in Malaysia.

Jambi and Palembang dialects 85% intelligibility for Malaysians.

Betawi dialect 80% or slightly less intelligibility for me, too many Sundanese and Javanese words and sound system but recognizably to be Malay.

Can read Mochtar Lubis "Harimau" with ease. Chairil Anwar's peoms no problem. Pramoediya A Toer's novels, I need to refer to the glossary some times. 

Kompas is ok, Riau papers easier, but other local papers in Bah Indonesia such as in Bali, bikin saya pusing.


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## Brioche

キズナ said:


> .As for Indonesia, I realize that they speak better than us because they still speak according to its right grammar and their pronounciation is excatly as how the words are written. But Malays do not pronounce exactly the way the word is written.
> For example,
> SEPULUH(Ten) is pronounced like this : Se-pu-lOh
> Saya(I/me) : Sa-ye (this ye sound is similar to that of english's 'a' of 'a book,a dog,etc..)
> 
> I hope this is clear enough as for the pronounciation.




This is in part because the spelling of Malay/Indonesian was reformed.
Older style Malay spelling was based more on English spelling, and Indonesian more on Dutch spelling.
Where Malay had u, ch and j, Indonesian had oe, tj and dj - and there were other differences.
In 1972 both languages decided to use the same spelling rules, and some new common spellings reflect an Indonesian rather than a Malay pronunciation.

The first series of 10 ringgit Malaysian bank notes between 1967 and 1972 had *sa-puloh* ringgit printed on them. Modern notes have *sepuluh* ringgit.

As well as _puloh_ becoming _puluh_, a whole heap of other words which are traditionally pronounced *-o* in Malaya were given *-u* spellings.
For example, burok, campor, cukop, dapor, dudok, datok, gemok, masok, penoh, telor, tidor, tunjok, umor, untok. 

For many Indonesians, the Indonesian language is rather like a second language which they have learned according to the book, and thus they pronounce it according to the book.


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## ns2011

Brioche said:


> For many Indonesians, the Indonesian language is rather like a second language which they have learned according to the book, and thus they pronounce it according to the book.



This is true. And is now being debated especially in the last decade. Under Suharto, unity is underlined and upheld with force. But now, in the decentralised government, education is more locally managed. Local identity gets more attention - this could be a good or bad thing depending on one's perspective. Some people believe that the national language is eroding local culture and at the same time, from a national unity point of view one would see that the rise of local languages is loosening the national identity and pride.


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## terredepomme

Hochdeutsch has been upheld for severl centuries now but it never wiped out the plethora of German dialects who are very much alive up to this day.
Dialect-standard dyglossia is certainly feasable especially when the whole nation falls under a dialect continuum.(as far as I'm aware of)

What I've observed is that generally, excessive struggle against the standard national language for the sake of regional language autonomy results not in true autonomy but a increased stronghold of another prestige language. (Probably English)


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## sunflowershine

Adidaya said:


> I am Malaysian and been educated in Standard Malay. When I listen to Indonesian pop songs with Standard Indonesian lyrics, it is 100% intelligibility and vice versa for Indonesians.[...]


Vice versa for Indonesian. 
For example, although an Indonesian can't speak Malay, I bet he/she most likely can understand above 90% when Malaysians talk or write. 
The accent is kinda different but we share many similar vocabularies ^^


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## Ironicus

From all that has been written here, am I to conclude that it would be possible to learn just one 'Bahasa' that would be comprehensible to both Malays and Indonesians? Somewhat like Slovio for the Slavonic languages?


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## ns2011

Ironicus said:


> From all that has been written here, am I to conclude that it would be possible to learn just one 'Bahasa' that would be comprehensible to both Malays and Indonesians? Somewhat like Slovio for the Slavonic languages?



You can be understood speaking one language in the other country, this is true. However, I sometimes switch to English when I want to convey rather complicated ideas to Malaysians. Unfortunately, English is not as commonly spoken in Indonesia. 

Best
NS


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## FMSaigon

Hi,
I have been studying Indonesian and Malay using study materials I have picked up over the years, and would be interested in how big the differences are between these languages. I believe they are almost fully mutually intelligible. I suppose Indonesian has more Dutch influence and loan words. Also I believe that Indonesian is spoken more often as a second language across the 250 Indonesians, does this mean there is less regional variation?

Finally I am surprised there is not a separate forum for Bahasa, I would encourage more people to study, you have 280+ speakers in the heart of fast growing Asia! Time to study Thai, Vietnamese, Tagalog, differentiate yourself!


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## vincentdev

Lol noone has answered your question. kay, so Indonesian and malay are basically the same language only different dialects. The difference is probly much more severe than between UK and US english, but I think the difference is comparable to France French and Quebec French. But the diffrence is, We don't watch malaysian tv, and I bet they don't watch ours. We're both so westernised that wehn I talk to a malaysian, we speak english!


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## sscdownsouth

Bahasa Indonesia originated from Bahasa Melayu which becomes Bahasa Malaysia. But due to differing colonial ruler at the time the two languages took differing path and developed different vocabularies borrowed from the colonial language. For example: Kantor (BI from dutch Kantoor) vs. Office (BM from English), Polisi (BI from Politie) vs Polis (BM from Police). Some existing vocabularies also took different meaning due to different usage. Eg: Pusing originally mean to spin, became headache in BI while in BM in means to rotate, and Percuma which means Useless in BI and Free in BM. When I am in Malaysia, I prefer to use English rather than BI to communicate with BM speaker, because the similarities and differences between the two language risks greater mis-interpretation.


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## vincentdev

sscdownsouth said:


> Bahasa Indonesia originated from Bahasa Melayu which becomes Bahasa Malaysia. But due to differing colonial ruler at the time the two languages took differing path and developed different vocabularies borrowed from the colonial language. For example: Kantor (BI from dutch Kantoor) vs. Office (BM from English), Polisi (BI from Politie) vs Polis (BM from Police). Some existing vocabularies also took different meaning due to different usage. Eg: Pusing originally mean to spin, became headache in BI while in BM in means to rotate, and Percuma which means Useless in BI and Free in BM. When I am in Malaysia, I prefer to use English rather than BI to communicate with BM speaker, because the similarities and differences between the two language risks greater mis-interpretation.



do you think that in phillipine's case, it's spanish? lol


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