# awareness of death



## Joca

Some years ago I heard a man say that if everybody were permanently aware that they are mortal and that they can die at any given moment, that is, if everybody had a permanent awareness about their own death (we often forget about it, don't we?), then people would be different and possibly better. They would be more compassionate and tolerant of one another and they would fight less (less wars on earth!) because it would finally dawn upon them that fighting is really a waste of time. Being aware of death has nothing to do with morbidness or nihilism.

What do you think?

Or could it be just the opposite? Knowing that they can die any time at all and especially knowing that nobody can be totally sure (can we?) about heaven and hell, people would act as they please and do a lot of evil things (because with death at hand you can always get away with it, can't you?).

I don't know if I have formulated the question adequately, but what do you think would be the most probable scenario if people were permanently aware of their impending death?

JC


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## Primal

Wow.  You pretty much gave perfect arguments for both sides of the discussion.  Either way, I, like you appearently, am fully aware that death can happen at any time, completely by fluke.  And it kind of bothers me...  People probably would be better, or at least they would be more affectionate with the ones they _do _like.  (Although I think they could hate and wage war just as well.)
Primal


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## vachecow

Primal said:


> I, like you appearently, am fully aware that death can happen at any time, completely by fluke.  And it kind of bothers me...


From time to time thoughts of my own mortality do bother me.  

I think if everyone were acutely aware of their own mortality, there wouldn't be much difference.  Some people would become more compassionate, and some would become more violent.  I also think that some people currently are aware, and just don't care and live for the moment.


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## .   1

*CAN PIGS EVER LEARN TO LAUGH*​ 

*Do cows ever wonder at moonshine*
*Can sheep ever walk by themselves*
*Are stars ever seen by a someone*
*Who lives a life sat on a shelf*​ 

*Can dogs ever notice a rainbow*
*Are pigs ever able to see*
*After diamonds of sweet rain have fallen*
*A life far beyond what has been*​ 
*And who is the only among us*
*Who knows that tomorrow may call*
*No younger nor wiser just older *
*Until we have wit and are bold*​ 
*We pay for each gift with a price dear*
*There is nothing in life that is fey*
*We pay for these gifts with our life's fear*
*We pay with a price none should pay*
**​
*We know that always we will be**Never knowing of all that will be*​*Ever waiting and watching in wonder*
*For the bell toll that calls just for me*

*.,,*​ 




​


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## mrbilal87

Joca said:


> I don't know if I have formulated the question adequately, but what do you think would be the most probable scenario if people were permanently aware of their impending death?



To be honest, I agree with the others. I don't think knowledge of a person's last day would guarantee more kindness and generosity. I think there will be a balance between some people wanting to be more kind and generous, and other people being more rude and selfish to get the most they can out of life.


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## TRG

It seems completely abnormal to me that anyone could go through life living as if each moment was going to be the last, or being completely preoccupied with mortality. So the question of how the world would be changed if everyone behaved this way is an impossible condition and an impossible question. I suppose you could ask people who are much nearer to the end of their life and see what they say. What I can tell you is that when I was young I worried much more about my own mortality and also about my family. The thought of someone's untimely death troubled me a great deal and I thought about it quite often. It also bothered me that I would not last long enough to see and experience all the wonderful things that were(are) going to happen in the future. I used to read a lot of science fiction, and I really wanted to live long enough to see it all come true. Now that I've lived nearly sixty years, I don't think about death much at all, but it also no longer frightens me. When it comes, I think I'll be ready. My only hope now is to *NOT* outlive my children and to be around long enough to take care of my wife. That it.


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## .   1

TRG said:


> My only hope now is to outlive my children and to be around long enough to take care of my wife. That it.


What an unusual way to approach death.  I hope that my daughter outlives me by about a generation or so.

.,,


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## Joca

. said:


> What an unusual way to approach death. I hope that my daughter outlives me by about a generation or so.
> 
> .,,


 
I agree. It'd be unbearable for me to witness the death of any of my children.

JC


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## maxiogee

due to certain circumstances I became very closely aware of both my own mortality and how easily death might come upon me. Has it made me a better person? I don't honestly know. I believe it has certainly made me a different person - but then time makes us different people anyway, so maybe I'm wrong to attribute the change to that.

As Samuel Johnson said: "When a man knows that he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

Would it change humanity if everyone had an awareness of death? I don't know, but I'm sure some lyin' thievin' scoundrels would find a way to profit from it.

I do think it can lead to morbidness - and in large groupings that can be intolerable.


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## TRG

. said:


> What an unusual way to approach death. I hope that my daughter outlives me by about a generation or so.
> 
> .,,


 
How ridiculous, I wrote the exact opposite of what I meant.


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## Aurin

What a nice issue you raised!  Unfortunately death had become an issue people avoid to think and speak about. Considering that death is the only certitude we have it appears strange that we don’t aspire to be prepared. It might be caused by a deep fear of the unknown, the angst to lose our loved ones…such an unbearable anguish that we prefer to deny the fact of death.
But when death is touching us we can’t run away and we all are able to deal with it.
In the last years I had several death experiences and with every death I learnt a little more. I learnt to deal with death and I learnt a leaf of things concerning dying, death and the “life after life”. There are many books written about and also had some experiences that let me believe that life (of the soul) is going on. I am not religious.
And after every death for example I got aware how many unless material things we are accumulating, that many supposed important things like etiquette and doctoral levels etc. are becoming unimportant at the hour of death. The only important thing when we leave this life is if we have used all our opportunities life had given, that we don’t have to regret lost opportunities or to say it with one word: Love is the most important that we have lived our life with love, love with ourselves, love with fellow persons, love with all creatures, love with our planet….
I try to live aware of death and it helps me to take decisions and it helps me to feel happy. It helps to difference the important matters from the unimportant. It helps me to see first the friend (before the hostile aspect). And it doesn’t depress me. 
I wasn’t born with this attitude. Once I felt panic only by thinking about losing for example my parents. Life (death) taught me to deal with.
I think fear of death is connected with the kind of society. The more technical a society is the more people feel afraid of death. Other cultures deal in a different way with death.


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## Primal

Ha. I find it ironic that the only people that replied to this topic were people that already to think about death... Did anyone else notice that? I wonder why...
Primal


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## EmilyD

JC,

You have posed this question eloquently.  Forgive me please, for sharing an experience about a different mammal.  An elderly cat, who had lived with me for nearly 17 years, recently died.  

She had become frail and unsteady and I had considered bringing her to a veterinarian (to hasten her demise) as some suggested, but my son argued that she deserved to be in her familiar home for her last days.

What was truly remarkable was that, in her last week, Romare (after a painter who lived in Harlem, New York City) became affectionate and physically close in ways that she had never before expressed.

I believe she was saying good bye to us.  Creo que ella nos estaba despidiendonos.

Nomi


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## Joca

EmilyD said:


> JC,
> 
> You have posed this question eloquently. Forgive me please, for sharing an experience about a different mammal. An elderly cat, who had lived with me for nearly 17 years, recently died.
> 
> She had become frail and unsteady and I had considered bringing her to a veterinarian (to hasten her demise) as some suggested, but my son argued that she deserved to be in her familiar home for her last days.
> 
> What was truly remarkable was that, in her last week, Romare (after a painter who lived in Harlem, New York City) became affectionate and physically close in ways that she had never before expressed.
> 
> I believe she was saying good bye to us. Creo que ella nos estaba despidiendonos.
> 
> Nomi


 
Well, I was really moved after reading this. 

JC


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## Etcetera

Joca said:


> Knowing that they can die any time at all and especially knowing that nobody can be totally sure (can we?) about heaven and hell, people would act as they please and do a lot of evil things (because with death at hand you can always get away with it, can't you?).


Not if you're a believer.

Well, it's an interesting question. Being an incurable optimist, I tend to think that people would be more attentive to each other, were they always aware of their mortality. At least more attentive to their relatives.


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## Ana Raquel

What I don't understand well is how we are able to have children if we do know they will die one day. I guess it is the result of nor being aware of death.

Regarding the topic, I think the first Joca's possibility is more probable: 
_They would be more compassionate and tolerant of one another and they would fight less (less wars on earth!) because it would finally dawn upon them that fighting is really a waste of time_


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## maxiogee

Ana Raquel said:


> What I don't understand well is how we are able to have children if we do know they will die one day. I guess it is the result of nor being aware of death.



Maybe in the hope that, even if 'we' are going to die, they might be the first ones not to. 

Also I believe that the genetic urge is - in most people - too strong to resist. To our genes we are the beginning of the process for a new _gene_ration. Someone here has, or had, a signature saying something to the effect that a bird is an egg's way of making another egg. Good point.


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## Ana Raquel

Yes, good point, good kind of explanation.

Death is for me like another step in growing.


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## liulia

Ana Raquel said:


> Death is for me like another step in growing.



If you believe, as I do, that the soul continues to live, and that death is simply another birth, a birth into something totally new and unknown, well, then any reminder of death makes you want to live this life as well as possible! I'm sure the way I live this life will in some ways determine what happens to me in the next chapter! And this is why the thought of death is always an incentive to be more compassionate and kind!


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## Anne

I want someone to explain how to know we're not already dead and dreaming all this stuff.
Anne


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## mrbilal87

Anne said:


> I want someone to explain how to know we're not already dead and dreaming all this stuff.
> Anne



Hmm that's an interesting way to look at it, and then we come back to life if we get in a fatal car crash or whatnot? I guess it's just strange to imagine yourself dead while being able to move around and while seeing others move around. And you see a person who's actually, perhaps, "living" and he/she appears to be dead because you're not in that state at the moment.

Anyway, I don't want to take the thread too far off topic.


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## cuchuflete

Joca said:


> Knowing that they can die any time at all and especially knowing that nobody can be totally sure (can we?) about heaven and hell, people would act as ...



You have forced a bogus assumption into the topic.

Many people who post in these forums are absolutely convinced about one or the other or both.

Others find the question of the existence of an afterlife totally without merit—the stuff of fairy tales.  Please understand clearly here--I am not saying that they have an answer, but that they find the question itself absurd.  

For some people it is every bit as meaningful to ask whether they will go to Perugia and be five meters tall and wear purple skirts while eating chocolate forever, or if they will turn into microscopic polar bears and sing opera for all eternity.

Still others share your attitude, that there is a valid question, but the answer is not available during our lifetimes.


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## .   1

TRG said:


> How ridiculous, I wrote the exact opposite of what I meant.


Your original statement did seem to lack your rhythm.  There was no setup and denoument, just denoument and denoument.



Primal said:


> Ha. I find it ironic that the only people that replied to this topic were people that already to think about death... Did anyone else notice that? I wonder why...
> Primal


Is it possible to post in these forums and not possess mortal precognition?

.,,


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## Aprinsă

Death. Oh, yes. I think when you are suicidal, Death takes on a whole new meaning. When my dad died, I became a better person. But then, I became really depressed and wanted to die myself, so that totally changed everything (although that also made me a better person in some ways). I'm not afraid of death anymore. The question, "Why am I alive?" is no longer philosophical. It's very, very here and now. Do I enjoy life? Should I go on living? There's no longer the assumption that life is something infinite and ethereal when I ask, "Why am I alive?"

Yes, I am mortal. I'd better be. I don't think about Death anymore because I have already kissed her and moved on. Plus, I live in America and don't have any friends to even lose.


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## geve

Aurin said:


> It might be caused by a deep fear of the unknown, the angst to lose our loved ones…


We don't lose our loved ones when we die... Our loved ones lose us.  That's what frightens me in death. I was recently on a flight that got really hectic during 10 minutes, hectic enough to cause fear and morbid thoughts. The pain inflicted on my loved ones was very much on my mind.



Ana Raquel said:


> What I don't understand well is how we are able to have children if we do know they will die one day.


Or... how can we have children when we know *we* will die one day? How can we "generate" new beings knowing that they will necessarily experience sufferance?
I think everyone is aware to some extent that sufferance and death are an integral part of life. It is up to each of us to decide if it's worth it.


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## .   1

Ana Raquel said:


> What I don't understand well is how we are able to have children if we do know they will die one day. I guess it is the result of nor being aware of death.


That my daughter lives makes me immortal.

.,,


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## caballoschica

geve said:


> We don't lose our loved ones when we die... Our loved ones lose us.  That's what frightens me in death. I was recently on a flight that got really hectic during 10 minutes, hectic enough to cause fear and morbid thoughts. The pain inflicted on my loved ones was very much on my mind.
> 
> 
> Or... how can we have children when we know *we* will die one day? How can we "generate" new beings knowing that they will necessarily experience sufferance?
> I think everyone is aware to some extent that sufferance and death are an integral part of life. It is up to each of us to decide if it's worth it.



It is very hard on loved ones....

Death of a family member, especially close ones...it can be so hard even years after the death of the family member.  I still bawl about the deaths of some of my family members sometimes.  But we get through it.  We live.  And we get stronger.  What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. It's not a fun road, but sometimes you just have to continue living.  Mourn about your family members and bawl, it's good.  But you can't dwell on the past.  You have to think about the future.   

Of course death and sufferance are a part of life.  Of course I'm saying this because I've had 4 family members die and one of them died when I was 1 year old.  But honestly, what would people be without morality as an issue?  I think people would be different.  And of course it depends on the extent of how much the person thinks about morality.  If they don't so much, then that aspect of life not being there wouldn't change them.  However, to someone like me, to whom death is a very real prospect, I might be a different person.  I might have been raised differently.  I might think about different things.  I might think different about different activities if I weren't an epileptic who could die in my sleep if I don't take care of myself.   I might think different about something if my uncle hadn't died from it...Morality influences you, I believe.  It shapes your beliefs in some ways.  

I think this is less of a question of being kinder or meaner than what kind of changes in personality, moral compasses people would have if morality were not an issue?

That is beautiful, .,, ,what you said about your daughter making you immortal.


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## Etcetera

Ana Raquel said:


> What I don't understand well is how we are able to have children if we do know they will die one day. I guess it is the result of nor being aware of death.


We have children because they're our continuation, so to say. 
That's how my Mum explained the thing to me. A good explanation, I think.


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## .   1

Etcetera said:


> We have children because they're our continuation, so to say.


Children pay us for our precognition of our impending mortality.

.,,
We are all immortal for each day of our life.


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## Chaska Ñawi

caballoschica said:


> Of course death and sufferance are a part of life.  Of course I'm saying this because I've had 4 family members die and one of them died when I was 1 year old.  But honestly, what would people be without morality as an issue?  I think people would be different.  And of course it depends on the extent of how much the person thinks about morality.  If they don't so much, then that aspect of life not being there wouldn't change them.  However, to someone like me, to whom death is a very real prospect, I might be a different person.  I might have been raised differently.  I might think about different things.  I might think different about different activities if I weren't an epileptic who could die in my sleep if I don't take care of myself.   I might think different about something if my uncle hadn't died from it...Morality influences you, I believe.  It shapes your beliefs in some ways.



I'm assuming that you're talking about mortality and not morality.


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## caballoschica

Chaska Ñawi said:


> I'm assuming that you're talking about mortality and not morality.



Yes, I am.  Thanks for spell-checking me


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