# в том случае, если...



## Interprete

Hello,

In the following sentence, which comes from a pre-wedding to-do list:
Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*в том случае, если* венчание совпадает с днем регистрации).

The part in bold is translated as 'in case (the wedding coincides with etc)'. Is this the most accurate translation of this turn of phrase? Is it common?

Thanks!


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## gvozd

The translation is fine. The expression is widely used, you can also say simply "в случае, если..."


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## Awwal12

Seems quite accurate to me.


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## Interprete

Thank you!


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi interprete, unfortunately "in case" is a mistranslation here. It's just "if", (or "in the case that", or "in the event that"). "In case" always carries the sense of *a precaution* against something that may or may not happen, we don't know if that "something" will happen or not.
"Take an umbrella in case it rains." (We don't know if it will rain or not, but take an umbrella as a precaution.)

In your context, there is no sense of the headscarves being needed as a "precaution" against the wedding falling on the same day as the registration. The headscarves will be needed *as a result of* the two events happening on the same day, if they do.

See 'What’s the difference between “if” and “in case”' here (source: englishlessonsbrighton.co.uk)


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## Q-cumber

What about "provided that...".?


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## Enquiring Mind

"Provided that" (= on condition that, as long as, subject to the condition that, with the requirement that) doesn't work here, unfortunately.

Original sentence:
Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*в том случае, если* венчание совпадает с днем регистрации). 
_if_ ("in the event that", "in the case that") _the wedding takes place on the same day as the registration _

Provided that = с условием, что ..., при условии, что ...; если только ...; лишь бы ...; с учётом того, что ... etc.
Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*при условии, что* венчание совпадает с днем регистрации). 
This sentence doesn't work in Russian for me, but you're the natives!


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## Awwal12

Enquiring Mind said:


> This sentence doesn't work in Russian for me, but you're the natives!


Well, it sounds pretty weird indeed.  Thanks for your comments, they're invaluable. It seems most dictionaries don't stress enough that "in case" always implies precaution against something.


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## Q-cumber

Enquiring Mind said:


> "Provided that" (= on condition that, as long as, subject to the condition that, with the requirement that) doesn't work here, unfortunately.
> 
> Original sentence:
> Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*в том случае, если* венчание совпадает с днем регистрации).
> _if_ ("in the event that", "in the case that") _the wedding takes place on the same day as the registration _
> 
> Provided that = с условием, что ..., при условии, что ...; если только ...; лишь бы ...; с учётом того, что ... etc.
> Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*при условии, что* венчание совпадает с днем регистрации).
> This sentence doesn't work in Russian for me, but you're the natives!


The sentence works in Russian, but the part in bold sounds quite too formal and heavy.


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## Awwal12

Q-cumber said:


> The sentence works in Russian, but the part in bold sounds quite too formal and heavy.


I am still feeling something wrong about the latter. Probably because "венчание совпадает с днем регистрации" is not really a condition (условие) for taking the headscarves.


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## Q-cumber

Awwal12 said:


> I am still feeling something wrong about the latter. Probably because "венчание совпадает с днем регистрации" is not really a condition (условие) for taking the headscarves.


Yes, I think you're right. I don't like the English variant now either. I afraid I was too sleepy while suggesting it.


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## Okkervil

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi interprete, unfortunately "in case" is a mistranslation here. It's just "if", (or "in the case that", or "in the event that"). "In case" always carries the sense of *a precaution* against something that may or may not happen, we don't know if that "something" will happen or not.
> ....
> See 'What’s the difference between “if” and “in case”' here (source: englishlessonsbrighton.co.uk)



"in case" и "in the case that" - имеют разный смысл?
Однажды где-то на транспорте видел такую надпись - "Push the button in case of emergency!" Это грубая  ошибка?


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## Enquiring Mind

> "in case" и "in the case that" - имеют разный смысл?


 Yes, that's right.


> Однажды где-то на транспорте видел такую надпись - "Push the button in case of emergency!" Это грубая ошибка?


 No, it's not a mistake. It's "shorthand/noticeboard/headlinese"-style English*, in which articles and other short words can be omitted where they are not essential to the meaning. Note too, that in this construction, "in case *of*" can only be followed by a noun.  The other "in case" - на (тот) случай, если/что - is followed by a clause with the verb in the present or past (not future) tense.

*Shorthand style: Push (the) button in case of emergency.
Normal: Push the button *in the case that* (or just *if*) there is an emergency.

*Shorthand style: In case of fire, break glass.
Normal: I*n the case that* (or *if*) there is a fire, break the glass

This precise topic is the subject of the longest-ever thread on the English forum here.

_Худею *на тот случай, что* если со мной что-то случится и меня пришлось бы спасать, и мне бы в итоге не сказали:"ну ты и тяжелая"_
I'm losing weight in case something happens (...) and they tell me ...
[from the internet here, this is not my "inelegant" (что если) Russian.]

There's a good page here (source: english-tutorial.ru).


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## Vovan

Interestingly enough, _Longman Dictionary_ points out that *in case* _can_ be used instead of *if *- but in American English only:


> *(just) in case*
> 
> a) as a way of being safe from something that might happen or might be true
> 
> _Take an umbrella, in case it rains.
> He had his camera ready, just in case he saw something that would make a good picture._
> 
> b) _American English_ if
> 
> _In case I’m late, start without me._
> 
> (just) in case | meaning of (just) in case in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE


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## Drink

Vovan said:


> Interestingly enough, _Longman Dictionary_ points out that *in case* _can_ be used instead of *if *- but in American English only:



Just note that it comes off as colloquial (at least in my opinion), but I've definitely heard it.


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## Enquiring Mind

It's true that *some* American speakers use "in case" in the sense of "if", but on the English thread here, other AE speakers say that that use is impossible for them.  It's also true that there is* sometimes* an overlap in the sense (as the link I provided in #5 says). But to get back to the original post in this thread, "in case" would not be accepted by the vast majority of English speakers and is definitely not recommended.

[Ed: I found the English thread and linked to it.]


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## Q-cumber

Enquiring Mind said:


> _Худею *на тот случай, что* если со мной что-то случится и меня *придётся *спасать, (и) мне бы в итоге не сказали:"ну ты и тяжелая"_
> I'm losing weight in case something happens (...) and they tell me ...
> [from the internet here, this is not my "inelegant" (что если) Russian.]



Small stylistic correction.


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## Enquiring Mind

Yes, thanks Vovan. That's the one, and in fact I have already linked to it in my post #13 and #16.


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## Vovan

Enquiring Mind said:


> Yes, thanks, Vovan. That's the one, and in fact I have already linked to in my post #13 and #16.


Thank _you_!
To me, that nuance was news.


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## Enquiring Mind

_"Словосочетание in case в английском языке образует условное придаточное предложение. Мы прогнозируем какое-то возможное событие и указываем *заблаговременные действия* на случай, если оно произойдет."_ (source: english-tutorial.ru) - that's the crucial difference between _in case_ (на случай) and _in the case that_ / _in the event that_ / _if (в случае).
_
There are other ways (in Russian) of rendering _in case_ too:
_Нужно сделать всё по-быстрому, вдруг кто-нибудь из соседей что-то слышал. _(Source: internet)
_We need to act quickly in case one of the neighbours heard anything/something._

But I don't think you can use this вдруг construction in the OP's example, can you?
Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*вдруг *венчание совпадалo с днем регистрации). 
I wonder if this *вдруг *construction (for "in case") helps Russian speakers to feel the difference?


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## Vovan

Enquiring Mind said:


> I wonder if this *вдруг *construction (for "in case") helps Russian speakers to feel the difference?


It really does!
And, by the way, I also think that "вдруг" sometimes helps with the modal "might" (and can even be used to render sentences that contain it into Russian).


We say _"на случай, если вдруг..."_, _"на случай, если она/он/... вдруг"_ and the like to make compound sentences with "вдруг" more subtly linked ("written-like"):_ "Взять еды на случай, если вдруг...", "Нужно сделать все быстро на случай, если вдруг кто-нибудь из соседей...".
_
Also, both in English and in Russian, we say "What if...?"/"А что, если..." with a similar meaning. Can help in distinguishing the two instances discussed.


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## Q-cumber

> _"Нужно сделать все быстро*,* на случай _ если вдруг кто-нибудь из соседей (поднимет шухер)._


In my opinion, "на случай если" belongs to the subordinate clause here and the comma before "если" is not needed.


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## Awwal12

Enquiring Mind said:


> Подготовить несколько платков, чтобы покрыть голову в церкви (*вдруг *венчание совпадалo с днем регистрации).


"Совпадёт" or "совпало", more likely ("вдруг венчание совпадало..." requires some pretty specific context to sound normal).
But your point is crystally clear here.


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## Interprete

Thanks everyone! I love how my questions always seem to trigger long and interesting discussions (unlike on the other WR forums!). And thanks for the correction regarding 'in case', I did mean 'in the event that' so it's all clear now.


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