# Liberty by insanity, Salvation by Pain



## arsanima

Hello!

I am working on a latin "motto" for a sideshow/freakshow duo (and hopefully, troupe) I am starting with a friend.
I think I have it down pretty well, but if someone could confirm my translation to be right or wrong, it would be very helpful!

I am trying to translate "Liberty by Insanity" and "Salvation by Pain".
What I have up to now is "Libertas ab Insania" and "Salvatio per Dolorem"
I have used "per" and "ab" because I'm not sure if one is more appropriate than the other, or if they are interchangeable in this situation.

Any help would be more than welcome

Thank you!


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## XiaoRoel

*Libertas per insaniam, salus per dolorem*, mais aussi *libertas ab insania, salus a dolorem*. Les deux solutions (avec _per_ + _l'accusative_ et avec _a/ab_ + _l'ablative_) sont bien construites.


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## arsanima

Merci beaucoup! la grammaire latine est encore très mystérieuse pour moi!


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## XiaoRoel

Pas de quoi!


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## Cagey

I would think *Libertas per insaniam *and *libertas ab insania* mean different things.  Am I mistaken?


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## XiaoRoel

Claro que significan cosas diferentes, pero ambas posibles y sólo diferentes en cuanto al punto de vista del hablante y de su intencionalidad comunicativa y expresiva, pero lógicamente cercanas: con *per* indicamos el camino por el que se llega a la _libertas_, con *ab* de donde procede esa _libertas_.


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## Cagey

My translation, in case it is useful to any interested English speakers. I hope XiaoRoel will correct my errors. 



> *Libertas per insaniam, salus per dolorem*,


 "Liberty through [by means of] insanity, salvation  through [by means of] pain."


> *libertas ab insania, salus a dolore*. [I believe _dolorem_ was a slip. .]


"Liberty from [out of] insanity, salvation from [out of] pain"

XiaoRoel's  explanation: "I_t's clear that they mean different things, but both are possible, and they are different only in the point of view of the speaker and his communicative and expressive intention, but they are close logically: with *per* we indicate the road through which one arrives at liberty, with *ab*, from whence this liberty proceeds."_ [_a_ is the form of _ab_ that is used before a consonant.]


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## XiaoRoel

¡Muchas gracias, Cagey! (Una vez más.)


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