# All Slavic languages: Хорошо or a word with a similar root



## PERSEE

Hi everyone,

When I went to Zagreb, a while ago, I was surprised to hear "dobro" all the time, whenever in Russian it would have been "хорошо". Is хорошо strictly Russian? And by the way, what is the origin of this word?


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## Jana337

We have choroš, meaning polypore. 

Good - dobrý, dobrá, dobré.

Jana


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## Maroseika

PERSEE said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> When I went to Zagreb, a while ago, I was surprised to hear "dobro" all the time, whenever in Russian it would have been "хорошо". Is хорошо strictly Russian? And by the way, what is the origin of this word?


Добре is also Ukrainian and South-Russian, in the same sense of *good*.
Besides, in Russian there is a word *одобрять* - to approve, deriving from something like *to say dobre (to OK smth.).*
Though Russian moderm *добрый *means *kind,* in many derivative complex words it means exactly *good: *добропорядочный, добродетельный, добровольный, доброкачественный, etc. 
As for хороший as usually tehre are several versions, but the main one is that it derives from *хоробрый = храбрый brave.*
The latter is common Slavic and derives to the root wide sparead in the Indo-European (Ancient-Island *skarpr - sharp*, Latvian *skarbs - sharp, severe*) (Фасмер)
However Черных supposed this version from *хоробрый* not unsufficiently explanable semantically, because original sense of *brave *is too far from *good*.
Черных however supposes another version more persuasive, namely the one declined by Vasmer 30 years before as quite impossible: *хороший < Хорс*.
*Хорс* is Russian pagan god of Sun, main god of this ancient pagan pantheon, it always associated with something beautiful, originally meaning *radiant, resplendent*.


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## Thomas1

PERSEE said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> When I went to Zagreb, a while ago, I was surprised to hear "dobro" all the time, whenever in Russian it would have been "хорошо". Is хорошо strictly Russian? And by the way, what is the origin of this word?


It's sometimes used in Polish, but really sporadically, and when is is sarcastic in sounding. If someone says:
_On też jest charoszyj*._
_He too is хороший_.
then they mean that the person is sly (in a bad way) and dishonest, even deceptive.

Normally we use _dobra_ for Russian _хорошо._


Tom

*Note that I've never seen this word in the written form and the spelling is the result of how I'd write it.


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## übermönch

Don't know if he is still an authority, but Dahl proposed derivation from 'Krasa'/'Krashiy' meaning 'Beauty'. I you ask me, I'd say it's adopted from some Turkic, Ugric language or even from some extinct Iranic source, for it is rather obscure to have such a common word without the slightest hint even in the closest Slavic languages.


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## Sophia211

I always wonder about that word, it's quite unique to Russian 
There is a word in Bulgarian - "харесвам/haresvam" = "I like", that kind of reminds me of it. I have a Russian friend who, whenever I say "харесва ми" = "I like it", he always says - "yeah, it is хорошо"   But I think this word is from Greek, just like many others. The Greek word is "areso" and has the same meaning as in Bulgarian.


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## SuryaArya

> Черных however supposes another version more persuasive, namely the one declined by Vasmer 30 years before as quite impossible: *хороший < Хорс*.
> *Хорс* is Russian pagan god of Sun, main god of this ancient pagan pantheon, it always associated with something beautiful, originally meaning *radiant, resplendent*.


Черных was right. Compare Serbian _korisno_ (usefull), _korist_ (behalf, profit, gain). This word was derived from the same ancient HOR-GON basis as it happened to Russian  _хороший_*.

DV
*


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## SuryaArya

übermönch said:


> Don't know if he is still an authority, but Dahl proposed derivation from 'Krasa'/'Krashiy' meaning 'Beauty'. I you ask me, I'd say it's adopted from some Turkic, Ugric language or even from some extinct Iranic source, for it is rather obscure to have such a common word without the slightest hint even in the closest Slavic languages.



In Serbian, the words 'krasno' and 'dobro' are synonymous.

DV


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## Maroseika

übermönch said:


> Don't know if he is still an authority, but Dahl proposed derivation from 'Krasa'/'Krashiy' meaning 'Beauty'. I you ask me, I'd say it's adopted from some Turkic, Ugric language or even from some extinct Iranic source, for it is rather obscure to have such a common word without the slightest hint even in the closest Slavic languages.


Dahl is really not an authority as etymologist but he has never been him, just because in his time this science did not exist yet. 
Anyway, derivation from *krasa (beauty)<krasniy (red)* is impossible, because etymology of *krasa *is well know and it has nothing to do with *хороший*.
Iranian version nowadays is really the main, but not as a direct loan of the word from Skythian or some other iranian language, but indirectly - as semantical development of the name of Хорз - Russian pagan god (cf. Osetinian khorz - good).


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

SuryaArya said:


> In Serbian, the words 'krasno' and 'dobro' are synonymous.
> 
> DV


 
In Slovene they are not:

dober = good
krasen = very beautiful (http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=ge=krasen&hs=1)


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## Maroseika

SuryaArya said:


> The Greek language borrowed almost the whole its vocabulary from the Slavs:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you please clarify this idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*ευχάριστα pleasantly; ευχάριστος (pleasant, delightful, congenial, palatable)
> Serbian korisno (useful, congenial), korist (behalf, gain, benefit), krasno (beautiful, nice, pleasant).
> *_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Traditional etymology is:
> from eu- "well" + stem of kharizesthai "show favor," from kharis "favor, grace." (www.etymonline.com Douglas Harper).
> Do you mean some other etymology?
Click to expand...


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## mcibor

Maroseika said:


> Dahl is really not an authority as etymologist but he has never been him, just because in his time this science did not exist yet.
> Anyway, derivation from *krasa (beauty)<krasniy (red)* is impossible, because etymology of *krasa *is well know and it has nothing to do with *хороший*.
> Iranian version nowadays is really the main, but not as a direct loan of the word from Skythian or some other iranian language, but indirectly - as semantical development of the name of Хорз - Russian pagan god (cf. Osetinian khorz - good).



In older Polish krasna meant red with connotation that is beautiful - 
Na jego widok pokraśniała jak dojrzałe jabłko (At his sight she turned red, just like a ripe apple). So combination *krasa (beauty)<krasniy (red) *is possible.

And also from this word could nowaday _klasa_ be derived - chic

Regards
Michal


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## Niedowiérni

In Lemkovian isn't word хороший, good = добрий, добра, добре, добры.
Красний means pretty, not beautiful. Red is: червений, -а, -е, ы.

В лемківскій мові не ма слова *хороший*, маме інче слово: *добрий*.
*Красний* не значыт *пякний* чы *гарниий*. *Червений*, тіж не мат у нас слова *красний *в том значені.


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## Maroseika

Niedowiérni said:


> In Lemkovian isn't word хороший, good = добрий, добра, добре, добры.
> Красний means pretty, not beautiful. Red is: червений, -а, -е, ы.
> 
> В лемківскій мові не ма слова *хороший*, маме інче слово: *добрий*.
> *Красний* не значыт *пякний* чы *гарниий*. *Червений*, тіж не мат у нас слова *красний *в том значені.


And what's about Ukrainian?


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## Niedowiérni

Maroseika said:


> And what's about Ukrainian?


Similar, certailnly in West Ukraine, but I don't use Ukrainian - only Polish, Lemkovian and I learn cassubian.


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## Athaulf

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> In Slovene they are not:
> 
> dober = good
> krasen = very beautiful (http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=ge=krasen&hs=1)



The same distincion between _krasan_ and _dobar_ holds in Croatian, and I'm pretty sure that's the case in Serbian too.


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## Anatoli

Niedowiérni said:


> ...
> 
> В лемківскій мові не ма слова *хороший*, маме інче слово: *добрий*.
> *Красний* не значыт *пякний* чы *гарниий*. *Червений*, тіж не мат у нас слова *красний *в том значені.


Which language is this?!


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> Which language is this?!


Лемковский.
Лемки - этнографическая группа украинцев, издавна жившая в Карпатах между pp. Сан и Попрад, а также к З. от р. Уж. В связи с обменом населения между Польшей и СССР после образования ПНР часть Л. переселилась в равнинные районы на территории Львовской, Тернопольской и Николаевской области. (БСЭ)
Лемки (польск. Lemki) — часть малорусского населения Карпатских гор, между истоками pp. Ропы и Сана, в числе 109000 человек, греко-католической, т. е. униатской црк. Сами себя они называют просто русинами или русняками. Речь значительно отличается от речи других карпато-руссов, главным образом вследствие того, что в нее входит много польских и словенских (словацких) слов; это объясняется соседством Л. в Галиции — с поляками, в Венгрии — со словаками. У разных писателей, говорящих о карпато-руссах, Л. называются еще полещуками, куртаками, чугонцами. (Б&Е)


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## Anatoli

Thanks, Maroseika. Is its spelling/grammar formalised? It looked weird, especially the spelling, as if it was a mixture of Ukrainian, Belarusian, Polish and Russian.


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> Thanks, Maroseika. Is its spelling/grammar formalised? It looked weird, especially the spelling, as if it was a mixture of Ukrainian, Belarusian, Polish and Russian.


And what language is not a mix of several others?..
Yes, there are grammars of Lemkovian and other dialects of Ruthenian.
Look also here: http://www.rambler.ru/srch?oe=1251&...1%EA%EE%E3%EE+%FF%E7%FB%EA%E0&hilite=3B398979


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## alcesta

Athaulf said:


> The same distincion between _krasan_ and _dobar_ holds in Croatian, and I'm pretty sure that's the case in Serbian too.


I confirm that. "Krasan" is much nearer to "beautiful" than to "good" (dobar) in Serbian.


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## ballena

Sophia211 said:


> I always wonder about that word, it's quite unique to Russian
> There is a word in Bulgarian - "харесвам/haresvam" = "I like", that kind of reminds me of it. I have a Russian friend who, whenever I say "харесва ми" = "I like it", he always says - "yeah, it is хорошо"   But I think this word is from Greek, just like many others. The Greek word is "areso" and has the same meaning as in Bulgarian.


Мне кажется, что болгарский корень - самый правдоподобный. Кирилл и Мефодий очень "оболгарили" русский литературный язык. 
В любом другом случае, похожие слова были бы и в остальных словянских языках. Болгарское же влияние было довольно искусственным, одноразово "впрыснутым" только в русский язык, и оставшимся в нем как эталон.


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## beclija

I think that the *kras- = xoroš- etymology is unsustainable _within_ Slavic, but quite possible if both are loans from some other language (whether Iranic, Altaic, or anything else) or if one of them is a "re-loan". Compare English "mayor" and "major" or German "-wart" (as in "Hauswart", caretaker (of a house)) and "Garde"=guard, which is claimed to a loanword based on a French term that is itself loaned from Germanic.


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## Maroseika

beclija said:


> I think that the *kras- = xoroš- etymology is unsustainable _within_ Slavic


Why don't you accept Vasmer's etymology for *kras-?


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## beclija

Which would be? I only found in this thread what Vasmer claimed to be impossible, not what he believed.


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## Maroseika

beclija said:


> Which would be? I only found in this thread what Vasmer claimed to be impossible, not what he believed.


*краса*
укр., блр. краса́, ст.-слав. краса (Супр.), болг., сербохорв. кра́са "змея" (эвфемизм), чеш., слвц. krásа "красота", польск. krasa – то же, в.-луж. krasa, н.-луж. kšasa "великолепие". Отсюда кра́сный, прекра́сный, красова́ться, кра́сить, красота́. Вероятно, родственно др.-исл. hrósа "хвалиться", нов.-исл. hrós "слава", далее – др.-исл. hróđr "слава", гот. hrōÞeigs "победоносный", д.-в.-н. hruom "слава"
vasmer.narod.ru


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## beclija

Thank you. 

But in which point would that contradict the hypothesis that *xoroš- is a re-loan, i.e that *kras- was integrated into some non-Slavic language, whether Indo-European or not, were it underwent the changes typical of that language's historical development, before being reintegrated into Russian from that language?


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## Maroseika

beclija said:


> Thank you.
> 
> But in which point would that contradict the hypothesis that *xoroš- is a re-loan, i.e that *kras- was integrated into some non-Slavic language, whether Indo-European or not, were it underwent the changes typical of that language's historical development, before being reintegrated into Russian from that language?


I've just wondered why you called etymology of *kras not sustainable within Slavic, while it is rather clear as of Indo-European origin.
But maybe I've misunderstood your position and you meant only *kras>khoros.
By the way, also recommend you Chernykh dictionary: http://dicts.alphanet.org.ua/etym/chernykh/


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## beclija

Maroseika said:


> But maybe I've misunderstood your position and you meant only *kras>khoros.http://dicts.alphanet.org.ua/etym/chernykh/


That's what I meant. And thanks for the link.


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