# Urdu/Hindi: Declension of Place Names.



## Qureshpor

In Urdu, there are famous lines in poetry with place names like "kalkattah" , "makkah" etc

mu'azzin marHabaa bar vaqt bolaa
terii aavaaz makk*e* aur madiin*e*

Zauq

makk*e* gayaa, madiin*e* gayaa, karbal*aa* gayaa
jaisaa gayaa thaa vaisaa hii chal phir ke aa gayaa

naa-ma3luum

kalkatt*e* kaa jo tuu ne zikr kiyaa ham-nashiiN
ik tiir meresiine pih maaraa kih haa'e haa'e

Ghalib

How does one decide if a place name ending in "-ah" or "aa" is to be declined to "-e" or not. BP SaaHib suggested that "aagrah" should remain aagrah (in another thread). In the second couplet "karbalaa" does not become "karbale". Why?


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## omlick

I know some people say Agre (but I am not sure if it really matters if you do or not to most people.)


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## marrish

It would be easier to make any conclusions if more examples were provided. For the moment I think that a place name ending in an inherent alif would not inflect, whereas those ending in -ah would. 
Still it would depend of the the level of familiarity of the place in question.


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## tonyspeed

marrish said:


> For the moment I think that a place name ending in an inherent alif would not inflect, whereas those ending in -ah would.



QP-saahib please provide the Urdu script for the above names in their natural form and inflected forms.


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## Alfaaz

It seems people use both...some choose to inflect, while others feel it is more appropriate to leave place names as they are: 

Aane se pehle, hum Makkah se hote hue Madinah mein ruke the, aur phir Jiddah rawaana ho gaye jahaaN ke mataar se Islamabad hawa'ii ade pauhnche hain...

Aane se pehle, hum Makke se hote hue Madine mein ruke the, aur phir Jidde rawaana ho gaye jahaaN ke mataar se Islamabad hawa'ii ade pauhnche hain...


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> It seems people use both...some choose to inflect, while others feel it is more appropriate to leave place names as they are:
> 
> Aane se pehle, hum Makkah se hote hue  Madinah mein ruke the, aur phir Jaddah rawaana (rawaanah)ho gaye jahaaN ke mataar (we really don't use it in Urdu) se Islamabad hawa'ii ade (aDDe)pauhnche hain...
> 
> Aane se pehle, hum Makke se hote hue  Madine mein ruke the, aur phir Jadde rawaana ho gaye jahaaN ke mataar se Islamabad hawa'ii ade pauhnche hain...


 Maybe some do or don't, we don't have the answer. BTW, it is *Jiddah*, not Jaddah.


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## Alfaaz

> BTW, it is *Jiddah*, not Jaddah.


Sorry for the typo(s); Thanks for the correction(s)!


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## marrish

You are welcome!


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> QP-saahib please provide the Urdu script for the above names in their natural form and inflected forms.




مکّہ / مکّے 
makkah/makke
مدینہ / مدینے 
madiinah/madiine

کربلا /کربلا
karbalaa/karbalaa

کلکتہ /کلکتے
kalkattah/kalkatte


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> It would be easier to make any conclusions if more examples were provided. For the moment I think that a place name ending in an inherent alif would not inflect, whereas those ending in -ah would.
> Still it would depend of the the level of familiarity of the place in question.



I believe Agra has an inherent alif

kyaa xuub narm-o-naazuk is Aagre kii kakRii
aur jis meN xaas kaafir Iskandare kii kakRii

Nazeer Akbarabadi


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## marrish

Most of the times I saw Agra written in Urdu it had no alif but a -ah ending. 

Could you please provide some background information about this shi3r?


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Most of the times I saw Agra written in Urdu it had no alif but a -ah ending.
> 
> Could you please provide some background information about this shi3r?



Well, our great poet Nazeer Akbarabadi wrote about riichh kaa bachchah, gilahrii, hans, "puudne"'s, bulbuls, Holi, basant, barsaat, chaaNdnii, Akbarabad kii 3iid-gaah, Akbarabad, Eid, kakRii, xarbuuz, paise, rupaiye, javaani, buRhaapaa, aaTaa, daal, chapaatii, roTiyaaN, kaljug, aadamii-naamah, banjaaraa-naamah, Divali, tarbuuz, kabuutar-baazii...religious topics including both Muslim and Hindu religious characters....You name it, he has written about it!


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## marrish

Oh, this is an impressing range of topics you give here, starting from _riichh kaa bachchah_ on religious characters ending! I think I'm going to try reading a couple of his poems the coming days.


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## UrduMedium

marrish said:


> It would be easier to make any conclusions if more examples were provided. For the moment I think that a place name ending in an inherent alif would not inflect, whereas those ending in -ah would.
> Still it would depend of the the level of familiarity of the place in question.



I agree with marrish saahib. More examples:

koite ki hawa (Quetta)
laaRkane ke aam
shimle ki mirch

I have always seen Agra spelled in Urdu with an -ah ending too.


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## greatbear

Agra is declined at times: one does hear "Agre waali gaaRii". Or even a sentence like,
"Abe, Agre meiN kyaa rakhaa hai, kyuN jaana chahtaa hai?"

In my opinion, most or all place names ending with -aa are declinable (in Hindi); I will think further to see if I know of any exceptions.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> It would be easier to make any conclusions if more examples were provided.



More examples for your reading pleasure..especially posts 14, 15.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....48516a?lnk=gst&q=kalkatte+se#015ebcecc548516a


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> More examples for your reading pleasure..especially posts 14, 15.
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....48516a?lnk=gst&q=kalkatte+se#015ebcecc548516a


Thank you for them, the mystery has not yet been solved for so long!


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