# meybahar



## uress

Meybahar is actually a phantasy word but does it have a meaning in Turkish or is it very similar to any Turkish world?


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## Rallino

Meybahar? Sounds like an enjoyable cocktail one would order at the beach.


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## uress

Hm... A nice idea  Thanks!

_To me it sounds like a mixture of meyve and baharat _


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## themadprogramer

if you refer to Mey+Bahar that compound would be Wine + Spring(As in the season).

But sorry I haven't heard of it either.


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## uress

I would be wuite surprised if you had heard of it 

Bahar/spring is clear, but how do you have wine? I know only sarap and I can't even find it anywhere as mey 

But you can have a look at it here, here and here.


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## PorFavorDama

I hadn't heard of it either but their music is so cool and catchy!


uress said:


> I can't even find it anywhere as mey



Here you can find some information about it.



Spoiler: Brief



*Farsça* _may_ مى  "mayalanmış içki, şarap" sözcüğünden alıntıdır. Farsça sözcük *Orta Farsça (Pehlevice veya Partça)* aynı anlama gelen _may_ sözcüğünden evrilmiştir. Bu sözcük *Soğdca* aynı anlama gelen _maδu_sözcüğü ile eş kökenlidir. Soğdca sözcük *Avesta (Zend) dilinde* _maδa_ "baldan yapılan bir tür mayalanmış içki" sözcüğü ile eş kökenlidir.


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## uress

Oh, thanks! That's really interesting!


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## themadprogramer

We have Meyhane which is an over sofisiticated word for a bar :3


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## Gemmenita

uress said:


> ...or is it very similar to any Turkish world?


Hi,

Your word reminds me of 'Meyxoş' in Azeri which means :

A pleasant taste between sour and sweet. Which is used also as a positive adjectif in figurative meaning...

But _Meybahar_ seems to be another thing: maybe just a beautiful and romantic (girl) name composed of two parts (mey+bahar > _Ahmet_'s synonyms) as we have for example _Gülbahar_.
I had this idea and impression after those very pleasant and meaningful songs as if they are played for _Meybahar_!


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## themadprogramer

You mean like the mey in meyve?
But tell me this, aren't they both really just the same?


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## Gemmenita

Yes, in both _meyxoş_ and _meybahar  _'mey' means the same: şarap/wine. But in Persian _mey_ is the literary name and poetic usage of the word 'wine' used by poets in their poems.


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> Meybahar is actually a phantasy word but does it have a meaning in Turkish or is it very similar to any Turkish world?


Made me remember _nevbahar._


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## uress

Thanks for all the beautiful ideas! 

And what does nevbahar mean?


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> ANd what does nevbahar mean?


It means the spring. _Nev_ means new (quite similar isn't it?) and _bahar_ is translated as spring when it is used alone. I mean when you say _Bir bahar sabahı_, it means a morning in the spring. So, here in this sentence _bahar_ means _nevbahar_ or _ilkbahar_ (_ilk_ meaning the first). But there is also _sonbahar_, _son_ meaning the last. So, in Turkish spring is thought as the first _bahar _and the autumn as the last_ bahar. _However, if you say _bahar_ (rather than _ilkbahar_ or _sonbahar_) it also refers to the spring.
_
Nevbahar _is just another word for the spring but in colloquial language today, is never used.


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## uress

Oh, this is really interesting! And do you use nevbahar in written or not even?


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## Muttaki

It is not used either in books, maybe only in poems today but still it would be rare I guess. An example from a poem by Tevfik Fikret who died in 1915:

_Rahmet biter, bulut dağılır mihr-i nevbahâr
Âfâka lem’a-rîz oluyorken hazin hazin_

And this is from Namık Kemal who died in 1888, it is not a poem:

_857 senesi nevbahârında imparatorun Yunanistan’da hükûmet etmekte olan..._


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## Muttaki

Gemmenita said:


> But _Meybahar_ seems to be another thing: maybe just a beautiful and romantic (girl) name composed of two parts (mey+bahar > _Ahmet_'s synonyms) as we have for example _Gülbahar_


I think it would be too erotic for a name to be given to a girl, rather than beautiful and romantic. After all, _meybahar_ probably means simply "spring wine", doesn't it?


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## Gemmenita

Muttaki said:


> I think it would be too erotic for a name to be given to a girl, rather than beautiful and romantic.



Erotic, beautiful, romantic, literary, poetic,..., everything could be possible in a song (without lyrics!!!). It is not a real name, it could be _symbolic_!

Neyse...

Since our context is only those songs, and since those songs are all called _Meybahar_, so no doubt that _Meybahar_ is a _connotation _for something!

I put the word girl in parenthesis because my main idea was: maybe just a beautiful and romantic name composed of two parts and a 'girl's name'
was only an example of all possible _connotations_ that we could have for that word. And my example Gülbahar was just for the structure of the word.



Muttaki said:


> After all, _meybahar_ probably means simply "spring wine", doesn't it?



Well...for me: 'wine spring'!  >>> For complementing spring, for speaking nice about a beautiful spring, for showing the pleasure of spring!

 OH, I just discovered something:
Meybahar could refer to a beautiful and pleasant *spring*! And I think THIS is the _connotative_ meaning of that word in all those songs!


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## uress

I got some more information:

Yes, the second part is the Turkish spring 

The first part is meant to be a Greek word, but it's still not really clear because what they wrote me is actually 2 words pronounced together (me ygeia > me geia (with Turkish spelling: me iyia and what you can hear is usually only meya -almost like with g* at the end -I mean the other g with the sign above it)).

They wanted to express the fresh air, the deep breathing, the spicey spring, the happyness of being and their feelings for all these things..


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## uress

Ahmet Akkoç said:


> You mean like the mey in meyve?
> But tell me this, aren't they both really just the same?


Do you mean that fruit and wine are as words similar because they are similar in their meanings?


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> I got some more information:
> 
> Yes, the second part is the Turkish spring
> 
> The first part is meant to be a Greek word, but it's still not really clear because what they wrote me is actually 2 words pronounced together (me ygeia > me geia (with Turkish spelling: me iyia and what you can hear is usually only meya -almost like with g* at the end -I mean the other g with the sign above it)).
> 
> They wanted to express the fresh air, the deep breathing, the spicey spring, the happyness of being and their feelings for all these things..


What does_ me geia_ mean exactly? Would you please show any definition from a dictionary if you can?


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## uress

_Me ygeia_: (word for word) _with health_. 
(It's used in good wishes.)


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## themadprogramer

My apologies, but are you sure about this etymology Muttaki?

I lack any substantial source but I do believe they are both related to μεθυλ as is the methyl in the word methane.
I think we could actually start a seperate thread to discuss this though.


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## uress

What are you speaking here about, Ahmet? What are you answering to?
Methyl and methane and methanol and all these word are coming from the Greek word root meth-, see in Greek: methi (ita), methysi (iota), methyo (omega), etc (the meaning of each of them connected to "drunken").


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## themadprogramer

sorry I skimmed through your chat too quickly and well misunderstood that Muttaki cited "_Me ygeia" _as the etymology of "meyve"


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## uress

Oh, I see.

Bahar and baharat, do they have sothing common in their origin/etymology or is it just a coincidence that they are similar?

And the same question about mey and meyve.


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> Bahar and baharat, do they have sothing common in their origin/etymology or is it just a coincidence that they are similar?


_Bahar_ meaning spring is Persian while _baharat_ is Arabic. _Baharat/_بهارات is the plural of the Arabic word _bahar_ which doesn't mean spring. Arabic _bahar_ means pepper, spice. I don't know if there is an etymological relation between them (probably there is) but we have two words both written as بهار whose meanings are different.


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> _Me ygeia_: (word for word) _with health_.
> (It's used in good wishes.)


I didn't understand the grammatical relation then in the word _meybahar._ So, what does _meybahar_ mean? Should we think of _mey_ as an adjective? And how?


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## uress

I'm not sure if we really can speak about a grammatical realation here, they just have put 2 words together, moreover the 1st one is a nonexistent word, they just think it's a word but I haven't got an answer yet why they think it like that (I think because you can hear them very often together -like afiyetolsun )


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## Muttaki

You mean we can hear "_meybahar_" very often in Greece?

But in _afiyet olsun_ we have it, don't we? It answers to the question "_ne olsun?_". There must be a grammatical relation because could we say _baharmey_ having put them together?

I seek an answer like _mey_ is describing _bahar_ but with the translation you gave it didn't make sense for me.


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## uress

I can get less and less what you don't understand and why. It looks like you don't read what I erite but you try to read something what you wanted to see and get confused by the fact that I don't write what you expected. I told you *everything *and won't write it again. All the details are here and you can read them again and put your questions if you have some but I mean questions about that what I wrote and no questions about something else. It's obvious that you have to think in a different way as until now but I really can't help you more as long as I don't know what you don't understand and why.


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## Muttaki

Gemmenita said:


> Well...for me: 'wine spring'! >>> For complementing spring, for speaking nice about a beautiful spring, for showing the pleasure of spring!
> 
> OH, I just discovered something:
> Meybahar could refer to a beautiful and pleasant *spring*! And I think THIS is the _connotative_ meaning of that word in all those songs!


Apparently it can also mean _spring wine_. Look at this discussion.


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## uress

Hm... Interesting. It sounds (maybe or at least for me) even more logical than the explanation that the *group *members said about their *name* and its origin, how they created it. (The song names are another question.)

What I still found: 
Meybahar plays world music inspired by the Aegean Sea & Asia Minor.
Meybahar is like a long-calm breath, flying flavours in the breeze of Spring. Like a small inspiring island of the Aegean Sea: It's the music of our fantasy.
(santouri, violin, tabla, clay darbuka, frame drums, rikk & zil, world music percussion kit)


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## Muttaki

uress said:


> I can get less and less what you don't understand and why. It looks like you don't read what I erite but you try to read something what you wanted to see and get confused by the fact that I don't write what you expected. I told you *everything *and won't write it again. All the details are here and you can read them again and put your questions if you have some but I mean questions about that what I wrote and no questions about something else. It's obvious that you have to think in a different way as until now but I really can't help you more as long as I don't know what you don't understand and why.


What is wrong with you? And why did you write in smaller characters?


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## Gemmenita

uress said:


> Yes, the second part is the Turkish spring...


The second part is the _Persian_ spring.


uress said:


> The first part is meant to be a Greek word,


As far as I know, this part is also _Persian_. However still you would like to look for its origin in Greek?



Muttaki said:


> Apparently it can also mean _spring wine_. Look at this discussion.


But If you say 'spring wine', the word 'spring' would describe 'wine' and it would mean a 'wine' specially made for spring or in spring or something so...
.
.
.
Now, what is rather interesting for me is to know the nationality of the composers of those songs called 'Meybahar' presented by uress in #5.
I would like to know which nationality has been so creative and with a good artistic taste to create this beautiful word?


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## Muttaki

@Gemmenita

Yes, I mean it can mean _spring wine, mey_ being in this case the described rather than the describing one.

Actually we don't know quite for sure if such a word exists, right? It is the name of a song which might also be a coined one. Still, according to uress _mey_ may not be the Persian word for wine, but a Greek word or words.

می بهار to mean _spring wine_ actually is also read as _mey-i bahar_ with an ezaafe in-between. But in the Persian forum people said that we can also read it as _meybahar_ and it can mean _spring wine._


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## uress

As I told you -on the base of the information I got from the *HUNGARIAN *group *Meybahar *itself- it's compounded from meya+bahar, not mey+bahar.
But don't ask me why they have dismissed that _a _in the middle 
But it's really interesting that it has another meaning and moreover such a nice one, even without that _a _


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## Gemmenita

Muttaki said:


> Still, according to uress _mey_ may not be the Persian word for wine, but a Greek word or words.



So how come it exists in all Persian great dictionaries (such as Dehkhoda)  with no reference to other languages such as Greek?
Furthermore, uress has said in #19 that it is not really _clear_!


Muttaki said:


> Yes, I mean it can mean _spring wine, mey_ being in this case the described rather than the describing one.


That's OK!
However I don't insist on this hypothesis of 'spring wine' or 'wine spring' since first we should make sure about the meaning of Mey in this structure!
After some researches on Internet, I doubt that _Mey_ means _wine_ in this word!!!

So I have a question to @uress :



uress said:


> As I told you -on the base of the information I got from the *HUNGARIAN *group *Meybahar *itself- it's compounded from meya+bahar, not mey+bahar.
> But don't ask me why they have dismissed that _a _in the middle(...)



Will you please tell (or repeat) what does _meya_ mean in Hungarian?



_ps._ By the way, don't worry for the omission of '-a'! Some words miss their final letter over time, as the fruit آلبالو (Âlbâlu) in Persian which was آلوبالو (Âlubâlu)
but the و (u) has fallen over time!


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## Muttaki

Gemmenita said:


> So how come it exists in all Persian great dictionaries (such as Dehkhoda) with no reference to other languages such as Greek?
> Furthermore, uress has said in #19 that it is not _clear_ yet!


No one denies that in Persian می means wine but there can be so many words in many languages having different meanings but pronounced exactly the same especially if it is a word with one syllabus like _mey_. Say for instance the word "_in_" Turkish, but we also have "_in_" in English. Or "_bin_" while means get on! in Turkish, in English it means a kind of box or chest.


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## uress

Nothing to do with Hungarian, meya is coming from *Greek*, this is *clear*, what _not clear_ is if _they_ have really _understood _what they thought of themselves that they would understand this word which is actually not only one word, I don't think they could really understand the meaning when picked up the phrase in Greece.

Muttaki is right, you could find other languages mentioned in your dictionary only if ther would be a linguistic connection between the 2 words.

Bin in German: (I) am, but no meaning in Hungarian, Spanish, Italian, French, Russian, in Irish 6 totally different meanings  : from sweet to peak, in Chinese 8: from guest to riverside and kneebone, etc, etc...


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## Gemmenita

Muttaki said:


> No one denies that in Persian می means wine but there can be so many words in many languages having different meanings but pronounced exactly the same especially if it is a word with one syllabus like _mey_.


Yes, it goes without saying!
But I think our discussion was about 'wine', no? The Persian word for 'wine' is 'Mey'. As you too, you agree with it since you have translated it as 'wine'
and since you have asked about it in Persian Forum.
[And here is different می s in Persian and I draw your attention to the second one which is defined as 12th letter of Greek alphabet!]


However, according to uress the first part of Meybahar (Mey) which means 'wine' for both of us (you and me) is _Greek_ which he believes that was indeed '*meya*'.
That's what I have understood from his replies below:


uress said:


> The first part is meant to be a Greek word,...





uress said:


> ... it's compounded from meya+bahar, not mey+bahar.





uress said:


> meya is coming from Greek, this is clear,...



But does 'meya' mean 'wine' in Greek too?

Therefore I am still waiting for @uress 's reply to my question:
uress, will you please tell ( or repeat) what 'meya' means exactly in Greek?


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## uress

See 19 + 22 exactly.


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## Gemmenita

uress said:


> ...what they wrote me is actually 2 words pronounced together (me ygeia > me geia (with Turkish spelling: me iyia and what you can hear is usually only meya -almost like with g* at the end -I mean the other g with the sign above it)).
> They wanted to express the fresh air, the deep breathing, the spicey spring, the happyness of being and their feelings for all these things..





uress said:


> _Me ygeia_: (word for word) _with health_.
> (It's used in good wishes.)



Exactly, that's what I wanted to make sure.

So 'meya' in Greek (which could be changed to 'mey' over time) doesn't mean 'wine'!!!

Therefore at last we have two options for 'Mey':
1. wine (in Persian)
2. A word which expresses good wishes (in Greek)
+
'Bahar' which is a _Persian_ word.

Now which one of these combinations in below we should choose for 'Mey+bahar'? That's the question!

1. A Persian word + a Persian word
or
2. A Greek word + a Persian word.


Personally, I choose the first option.


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## uress

Originally it is the 2. but I like the 1. much more, it's more harmonic for me AND! it's much clearer from a linguistic viewpoint and it's so beautifully poetic, too. All in all, I think it even fits much better to their music


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