# Persian: Addressing



## Daffodil100

Hi,

I wonder whether or not it is a must for married Iranian women to adopt their husband's family name?

Native English speakers generally would not put their given name after Mr. / Ms. but surname. Is it usual for Iranians to say agha-ye-XXX, if XXX is the given name?

Thank you!


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## Treaty

Officially the woman's surname does not change after marriage. 
Usually, if the woman is known because of her husband or the house she lives in, she will be called by her husband's surname. On the other hand, if the woman is known on her own (e.g. in work place), her surname is what she's called by.

You will not usually hear the given name between aaghaa-ye or khaanom-e except there is an intention to call the full name. In less formal (more intimate) situation it is also possible to say the given name prior to aaghaa or khaanom (usually omitting the surname).


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much. I see.

I just thought of a question.

How did Iranian students to address a teacher before 1919 when Iranians didn't have family name?


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## .::Prince_of_Persia::.

What I say about this is not based on any scientific or historical  source but based on my general knowledge. I think at old times people  were called by their occupation or the place where they lived (as their  surname) or something like that in order to make distinction. For  instance if there were two persons named Ali in a town or region and  they wanted to call them they might say "Ali the painter" to one of them  and "Ali the carpenter" to the other one. Or for instance "Ali who lives  near the river" or "Ali who lives above the hill". And sometimes if the  father was a known person and they wanted to call a child they would say  "Ali the son of XXX the painter" or something like that. I think these informal names were used formally as their family names when the  official system came through. of course some royal or wealthy families  might have family names based on their ancient (let's say some hundred  years ago) occupation or the person known in their old family. any  way....

At the time you mentioned the teachers were almost an  educated person living in that region known like the others. In the case  of students they almost would have simply said "Mr or Ms teacher"  without using any name I guess!


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## Treaty

In 1900s the surname becomes "official". It doesn't mean it had not existed before then. There were surname-like conventions such as شهرت _shohrat _(= fame), لقب _laqab _(= nickname) and کنیه _konyeh _(= nickname) which connoted what a person is known for except his given name.

The teachers might have been called by their given name or above conventions preceded by a title which indicates:

- their mastery like ملا and استاد (colloq. اوستا) 
- an hereditary title like سید and میرزا 
- a higher position or title respect like آقا, جناب and حضرت


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## Daffodil100

Thank you both very much.

I learned it is rude to address an Iranian the given name when we meet each other for the very first time. 

For example, Ali Mohammadee

If I meet him, I should address him Agha ye Mohammadee or Agha ye Ali Mohammadee, instead of Ali- the given name.

If we lived in 1900s, what should I address him in case he didn't have a family name? Was it okay to address him Ali or Ali the carpenter, or agha-ye Ali if both of us met for the first time?


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## Treaty

Daffodil100 said:


> I learned it is rude to address an Iranian the given name when we meet each other at the very first time.



It depends on the situation and people. In formal or not-intimate situation, the title+family name is common.



Daffodil100 said:


> If we lived in 1900s, what should I address him in case he didn't have a family name? Was it okay to address him Ali or Ali the carpenter, or agha-ye Ali if both of us met?



_Agha-*ye *_and_ khanom-*e *_are used mainly before family names. For given name we don't normally add _ezaafe_. We simply say _agha ali_ or _ali agha_ (the latter is more common) or _parvin khanom_. When we add something (like the job) to the mention combinations, we put an _ezaafe_ after it: _ali agha-*ye *najjaar_ (carpenter). However, we normally do not usually use it for addressing the person but for talking about him, probably to make it clear which_ ali agha_ is intended. 

I assume, in older days it was also like this in informal situations. For example a father would tell his son to go to _ali agha-ye najjaar _and ask for a chair. The son goes to the carpentry and says: "_ali agha_! would you make a chair for my father, please?".


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much for your reply again.


> _khanom-*e*are_



What does "are" attached khanom-e mean ?


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## Treaty

Sorry for that. It is a typo. They should be separate "... khanom-e *are *used ...".


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## Daffodil100

It is fine. Thank you. I am clear about this thread now.


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## fdb

In Afghanistan it is still common to address a man of some stature by his given name followed by _xān_, for example Alī-xān, and likewise for women with _xānom_. I would imagine that it was similar in Persia in the Qajar period. The title _xān _(Khan) is of Turkish or Mongol origin.


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## Treaty

fdb said:


> In Afghanistan it is still common to address a man of some stature by his given name followed by _xān_, for example Alī-xān, and likewise for women with _xānom_. I would imagine that it was similar in Persia in the Qajar period. The title _xān _(Khan) is of Turkish or Mongol origin.


_
Xān _is still used in Iran but mainly for people who are real khans or have high status (mainly head of some gang or sports club). Otherwise, it may be used for humour. Similarly, Mongolian _beg_ (or _beyg_) was used in a much smaller scale.


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## Daffodil100

Native speakers of English told me that it is unusual to address a person whose screen name is ABC with Mr. or Ms. 

Mr. /Ms. ABC 


Is it usual for Iranians  to address a person in Iranian forums  ABC آفا or ABC جانم ? Even if I want to address that, I should put ABC ahead of  آفا or جانم, right? Because ABC is screen name instead of family name.

Please advise. Thank you!


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## .::Prince_of_Persia::.

Suppose someones screen name is مهاجر then mostly he/she is called اقای مهاجر or خانم مهاجر not مهاجر آقا or مهاجر خانم. I didn't used Latin screen names because one couldn't understand how it should be pronounced, form right to left or left to right. Of course for screen names one could simply use the name alone. For instance you may say: thank you Prince or thank you dear Prince and it's strange to me to say اقای پرینس (Aghaye Prince)

But in the real world mostly if you are familiar with the person and you want to use his/her name you may say علی آقا or پری خانم

But for formal people when you want to use their family name you may say: آقای ملکی or خانم جهانی


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## Daffodil100

Thank you very much for your input, Prince.


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