# Pronunciation: the surname "Vallvé"



## LoveVanPersie

How is the surname _Vallvé _as in _Pau Vallvé_ pronounced in Central Catalan? DCVB says it's a variant of _Bellver_ with incorrect spelling and transcibed _Bellver_ as [beʎβέ]. However, Wiktionary transcribes _Bellver_ and _Vallvé_ as /bəʎˈβe/, with the first vowel reduced and the second pronounced as close vowel /e/ rather than open one...   

There is a YouTube video where he pronounced his name: _Pau Vallvé es posa el nas de Pallapupas per Musics amb nassos_ (at 0:05), but my ability to identify pronunciations of non-native languages is too bad...

Thank you for your help in advance!


----------



## Dymn

LoveVanPersie said:


> /bəʎˈβe/


That's how I would pronounce it. Regardless of its origin, it's "impossible" for me to pronounce /e/ if I read _a_ or /ɛ/ if I read _é_. 

If anything, I would expect some people to pronounce it /ˌb*a*ʎˈβ̞e/ if they consider _vall _("valley") to be an standalone word and therefore pronounced unreduced (just like the_ o_ of _contratemps_ is never /u/).

Let's see what other people say.


----------



## LoveVanPersie

You're here to help me again Dymn! Thanks a lot!
Can you identify how Pau himself pronounced it in the YouTube video _Pau Vallvé es posa el nas de Pallapupas per Musics amb nassos_ (at 0:05)?


----------



## LoveVanPersie

How do you pronounce _Bellver_? Is it possible for you to pronounce a word-ending _-er _as /ɛ/?


----------



## LoveVanPersie

What about a similarly spelt surname and place name _Bellvei_ and its variant _Vallvey_?


----------



## Dymn

LoveVanPersie said:


> Can you identify how Pau himself pronounced it in the YouTube video _Pau Vallvé es posa el nas de Pallapupas per Musics amb nassos_ (at 0:05)?


/bəʎˈβ̞e/



LoveVanPersie said:


> How do you pronounce _Bellver_?


With /e/, but of course I (incorrectly) analyse it as an _-er_ suffix which is always /e/. It's however a compound word: _bell ver_ "good sight", being _ver_ an archaic form or _veure_, it should be pronounced with /ɛ/.



LoveVanPersie said:


> What about a similarly spelt surname and place name _Bellvei_ and its variant _Vallvey_?


I've never had to pronounce this so I have no idea.


----------



## LoveVanPersie

As for _Bellver_, would you also reduce the first _e_?


----------



## Dymn

Yes


----------



## LoveVanPersie

Moltes gràcies!


----------



## LoveVanPersie

LoveVanPersie said:


> As for _Bellver_, would you also reduce the first _e_?





Dymn said:


> Yes


ICGC agrees with you. Contrary to DCVB, it transcribes _Bellver de Cerdanya_ as [bəʎˈβɛ ðə səɾˈdaɲə], with the first _e_ in _Bellver_ reduced. The same happens in its transcription of _Bellvei_, [bəʎˈβɛj].


----------



## Penyafort

I agree with Dymn. He says  /bəʎˈβe/ in the video. Well, actually he says /βəʎˈβe/ because he says Pau before.

People don't know that Vallvé is a variant of Bellver -I myself have found it out right now- so speakers just pronounce things the way they are spelt, according to Catalan rules. If it was written with -è, then it'd be open. Speakers of Western Catalan won't reduce it and say /baʎˈβe/.


----------



## Xiscomx

We promounce our round_ Bellver Castle_ as [beʎvə́] from "bell veure [béʎ və́wɾə]".


----------

