# Hindi/Urdu - Generic Third Person "you" and "one"



## tonyspeed

In English there are generic third person pronouns "one" and "you". 

For instance: "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty" 
or "You must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty".

Both of these sentences mean that, in general, a person has to go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty.

How do we make similar sentences in Hindi/Urdu? 
Do we always have to use _koi_?


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## Alfaaz

Not sure if these are correct...


> "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty"


Taaj Mahal ke asl husn ko samajhne ke liye, aik (shakhs/insaan/bande/bandi) ko wahan jaanaa chahiye



> "You must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty".


Taaj Mahal ke asl husn ko samajhne ke liye, aap ko wahan jaanaa chahiye


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## nineth

_One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty_

(BTW, it's -> its)
For the best translation, I would not use any pronoun.

_Taj mahal ki aslii sundartaa ko samajhney ke liyay vahaaN jaana zaroori hai._

A more verbose one:

_Agar koi taj mahal ki aslii sundartaa (ko) jaanna chaahta hai, (to) unhey vahaaN jaana chaahiyay / paDega / (to) unka vahaaN jaana zaroori hai._


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## Alfaaz

> _Taj mahal ki aslii sundartaa ko samajhney ke liyay vahaaN jaana zaroori hai._



Asking just out of curiosity, what would be the Hindi words for aslii and zaroori....? (Heard a word like anivarya/avashye in such a context...or something like that...so thought about asking)


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## nineth

Alfaaz said:


> Asking just out of curiosity, what would be the Hindi words for aslii and zaroori....? (Heard a word like anivarya/avashye in such a context...or something like that...so thought about asking)


In this context, aslii -> vaastavik, zaroori -> aavashyak; I find these Hindi words just too robotic here compared to the commonly used Urdu loan words which sound more beautiful.


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## Alfaaz

> In this context, aslii -> vaastavik, zaroori -> aavashyak; I find these Hindi words just too robotic here compared to the commonly used Urdu loan words which sound more beautiful.


Thanks for replying! (learned two new words...!)


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> In English there are generic third person pronouns "one" and "you".
> 
> For instance: "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty"
> or "You must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty".
> 
> Both of these sentences mean that, in general, a person has to go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty.
> 
> How do we make similar sentences in Hindi/Urdu?
> Do we always have to use _koi_?




No, one does not always have to employ "ko'ii" in Urdu.

aagre* jaa kar hii taaj-maHal ke Haqiiqii Husn kaa iHsaas hotaa hai.

Only by going to Agra can one appreciate the true beauty of Taj Mahal.

(*aagraa jaa kar?)


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## BP.

Urdu:
For one or you (as well as the third person as we recently saw) we can use _aap_-آپ.
E.g. "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty":
 taaj maHal kee Husn kaa kamaa Haqquhu iHsaas aap koo bar maHal* hi hoo gaa-تاج محل کے حسن کا کما حقٌہ احساس تو آپ کو بر محل ہی ہو گا۔.

* taking a literalistic meaning of the figurative phrase!



QURESHPOR said:


> ...
> aagre* jaa kar hii taaj-maHal ke Haqiiqii Husn kaa iHsaas hotaa hai.
> ...
> (*aagraa jaa kar?)


I thought it was aagrah-آگرہ.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Urdu:
> For one or you (as well as the third person as we recently saw) we can use _aap_-آپ.
> E.g. "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty":
> taaj maHal kee Husn kaa kamaa Haqquhu iHsaas aap koo bar maHal* hi hoo gaa-تاج محل کے حسن کا کما حقٌہ احساس تو آپ کو بر محل ہی ہو گا۔.
> 
> * taking a literalistic meaning of the figurative phrase!
> 
> 
> I thought it was aagrah-آگرہ.



I was thinking of the song, "aagre kaa laalaa, aNgrezii dulhan laayaa re, aagre kaa laalaa".


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> I was thinking of the song, "aagre kaa laalaa, aNgrezii dulhan laayaa re, aagre kaa laalaa".



As far as I know this is a personal choice ( in Hindi at least) - when a name is followed by a post-position.


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## tonyspeed

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Urdu:
> For one or you (as well as the third person as we recently saw) we can use _aap_-آپ.



Does this have the exact same usage as in English: a person in general?
I wonder if this is English influence.
Could we also say ek shaXs ?


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## BP.

tonyspeed said:


> Does this have the exact same usage as in English: a person in general?
> I wonder if this is English influence.
> Could we also say ek shaXs ?


1. Yes.
2. I wonder too.
3. It's not the same thing. But you could formulate examples around that. _kisii shakS_ might be a little better.


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## omlick

tonyspeed said:


> In English there are generic third person pronouns "one" and "you".
> 
> For instance: "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty"
> or "You must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty".
> 
> Both of these sentences mean that, in general, a person has to go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty.
> 
> How do we make similar sentences in Hindi/Urdu?
> Do we always have to use _koi_?




"you" is second person, even the way you are using it in your example, so I think you can use "aap"

I would suggest ek insaan  for  "one" in English in that context.

 (aap ko) or ek inssan ko Taj Mahaal kii sundartaa samajhne ke liye Agre jaanaa pa.Dtaa hotaa hai.


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## nineth

omlick said:


> (aap ko) or ek inssan ko Taj Mahaal kii sundartaa samajhne ke liye Agre* jaanaa pa.Dtaa hotaa hai.*



*jaana paDtaa hotaa hai*  is not Hindi.  Please see different forms I used in my post.


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## tonyspeed

omlick said:


> (aap ko) or ek inssan ko Taj Mahaal kii sundartaa samajhne ke liye Agre jaanaa pa.Dtaa hotaa hai.



Two problems with this sentence.

1. we cannot use paDtaa here. PaDta means by force, something you absolutely cannot control.

2. if we are using the ta form of paDnaa (for general present tense), we do not need to use hotaa which is also general present of honaa. 
So this is like saying:
"to understand the beauty of Taj Mahal a person generally is forced to go to *is *Agra."  where the ending "is" is intentional and represents "hotaa".


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## BP.

tonyspeed said:


> ...
> 1. we cannot use paDtaa here. PaDta means by force, something you absolutely cannot control.
> ...


Or for demonstrating necessity, as we can assume was the case here.


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## marrish

tonyspeed said:


> In English there are generic third person pronouns "one" and "you".
> 
> For instance: "One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty"
> or "You must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty".
> 
> Both of these sentences mean that, in general, a person has to go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty.
> *
> How do we make similar sentences in Hindi/Urdu?
> Do we always have to use koi?*


On top of all good answers it may be worthy adding that in English, when 'one' or 'you' is used this way, the sentences don't imply specifically 'a person' be involved in. On the contrary, a meaning of impersonality is being expressed. 
Similar sentences in Urdu could indeed be built with _aap _but again, it doesn't mean the sentence is directed to the interlocutor per se. It implies an impersonal meaning. Like others said, impersonal constructs are used in Urdu: _jaanaa zaruurii hai, jaa kar...
_The best way to convey it is to help oneself to impersonal constructions. 
_ko'ii_ cannot be calqued here.

It would be easier to explain the usage if you could give more examples.


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## tonyspeed

marrish said:


> It would be easier to explain the usage if you could give more examples.



More examples:

"If one has a flu, one should stay at home" / "If you have a flu, you should stay at home" / "If a person has a flu, he should stay at home"
"If one falls down, one should get up" / "If you fall down, you should get up" / "If a person falls down, he should get up"
"If one jumps out of a plane, one should carry a parachute"/ "If you jump out of a plane, you should carry a parachute" / "If a person jumps out of a plane, he should carry a parachute"


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## Alfaaz

> "If one has problems with Urdu, one should post on this forum"



Could aik be used in this sense just as "one" in English (as asked previously in post #2)? 



> Taaj Mahal ke asl husn ko samajhne ke liye, aik (shakhs/insaan/bande/bandi) ko wahan jaanaa chahiye



Agar aik ko Urdu mein mushkilaat pesh aarahi hain, to usko is forum mein post karna chahiye...?


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## marrish

Thanks for the examples. 
(flu and parachute) I will use it untranslated. I will keep the simplicity of these sentences as well.
_fluu ho to ghar rahnaa chaahiye.
gir jaane par uTh jaanaa chaahiye.
tayyaare (par) se kuudne par 'parachute' rakkhnaa chaahiye.
_


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Could aik be used in this sense just as "one" in English (as asked previously in post #2)?
> 
> 
> 
> Agar aik ko Urdu mein mushkilaat pesh aarahi hain, to usko is forum mein post karna chahiye...?


No. Please read post no. 17.


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## tonyspeed

marrish said:


> Thanks for the examples.
> (flu and parachute) I will use it untranslated. I will keep the simplicity of these sentences as well.
> _fluu ho to ghar rahnaa chaahiye.
> gir jaane par uTh jaanaa chaahiye.
> tayyaare (par) se kuudne par 'parachute' rakkhnaa chaahiye.
> _



Very nice. You left out the subject completely.


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## Alfaaz

> No. Please read post no. 17.


I had read the post, but partially agreed; "you" and "one" seem to have slightly different meanings/connotations/impacts...which is why I asked the question. Maybe it's just the way I think....

Edit: I guess then the closest in Urdu would be to use: aik (shakhs/insaan/bande/bandi)...


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## marrish

tonyspeed said:


> Very nice. You left out the subject completely.


Thanks, please keep them coming in!


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> I had read the post, but partially agreed; "you" and "one" seem to have slightly different meanings/connotations/impacts...which is why I asked the question. Maybe it's just the way I think....
> 
> Edit: I guess then the closest in Urdu would be to use: aik (shakhs/insaan/bande/bandi)...


Let us agree to disagree.
In Urdu, I don't know such usage. Especially ''bande/bandii''. Please, can you enlighten us what it means?


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## Alfaaz

> Let us agree to disagree.


Sure! 


> Especially ''bande/bandii''. Please, can you enlighten us what it means?


It might be that this is wrong usage, but have heard it on TV and Urdu translation of the Quran:
خدا اپنے بندے بندیوں کو ہمّت سے زیادہ نہیں آزماتا 
خدا کے بندے / کی بندی، ہوش سے کام لے


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> Sure!
> 
> It might be that this is wrong usage, but have heard it on TV and Urdu translation of the Quran:
> خدا اپنے بندے بندیوں کو ہمّت سے زیادہ نہیں آزماتا
> خدا کے بندے / کی بندی، ہوش سے کام لے


In the scope of the original question it is indeed wrong usage.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> More examples:
> 
> "If one has a flu, one should stay at home" / "If you have a flu, you should stay at home" / "If a person has a flu, he should stay at home"
> "If one falls down, one should get up" / "If you fall down, you should get up" / "If a person falls down, he should get up"
> "If one jumps out of a plane, one should carry a parachute"/ "If you jump out of a plane, you should carry a parachute" / "If a person jumps out of a plane, he should carry a parachute"



One must go to Taj Mahal to understand its true beauty.

taaj-maHal ko dekh kar hii us ke jamaal kii asl qadr hotii hai.

If one has a flu, one should stay at home.

zukaam ho to ghar hii paRe rahnaa chaahiye.

If one falls down, one should get up

niiche gir jaane par uTh khaRaa honaa chaahiye.

If one jumps out of a plane, one should carry a parachute.

havaa'ii jahaaz se kuudnaa ho to pairaashuuT saath honaa chaahiye.


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## marrish

Qureshpor SaaHib took to beauty. He said it in the idiomatical way. The point of it is that we don't translate things literally from English in Urdu! Urdu is simpler and more concise, it doesn't have to employ dubious meanings of 'one' or 'you' here!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Qureshpor SaaHib took to beauty. He said it in the idiomatical way. The point of it is that we don't translate things literally from English in Urdu! Urdu is simpler and more concise, it doesn't have to employ dubious meanings of 'one' or 'you' here!




is meN ko'ii xaas baat nahiiN bhaa'ii mere! aap hii kii naql kii hai!


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> is meN ko'ii xaas baat nahiiN bhaa'ii mere! aap hii kii naql kii hai!


baRe bhaa'ii, baat zaruur hai is meN xaas kih naql angrezii kii aap ne nahiiN kii. aur yeh keh paRhne waaloN ko saaf saaf pataa chal jaa'e gaa keh baat kyaa hai!


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> _One must go to Taj Mahal to understand it's true beauty_
> 
> (BTW, it's -> its)
> For the best translation, I would not use any pronoun.
> 
> _Taj mahal ki aslii sundartaa ko samajhney ke liyay vahaaN jaana zaroori hai._
> 
> A more verbose one:
> 
> _Agar koi taj mahal ki aslii sundartaa (ko) jaanna chaahta hai, (to) unhey vahaaN jaana chaahiyay / paDega / (to) unka vahaaN jaana zaroori hai._



I presume _unhey _​is a typo and you meant to write "unheyN" (?).


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> Two problems with this sentence.
> 
> 1. we cannot use paDtaa here. PaDta means by force, something you absolutely cannot control.



"paRnaa" does not always have compulsion connotations.

maiN phislaa aur gir paRaa.

I slipped and fell down.

aur Taxila raaste meN hii paRtaa hai.

And Taxila actually lies on the way.


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