# Hindi/Urdu/Panjabi: superfluous



## panjabigator

Greetings,

I'm searching for a word for 'superfluous.'  In Panjabi, I found <nirarthak>.  For Hindi, the following words have been suggested: अतिरिक्त, अतिशय, अनावश्यक.  Any thoughts on these words and/or a Urdu suggestion?


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## omlick

فالتو फ़ालतू is the most famous word in Hindi and Urdu for this I thought.


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## panjabigator

Thanks Omlick.  I thought of this word too, but I guess I was searching for a more academic sounding word. 

Have you ever heard the word <fokaṭ>?


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## bakshink

Punjabi word for superfluous is vaadhuu, Nirathak is a Hindi word which means one that has no meaning.


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## tamah

Can we also use अर्थशून्य (arthashunya) or वृथा (vrutha) or बेकार (bekar) ? 
I am not sure if I can use those words for superfluous but after reading the replies I wonder if I can use these words too.


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## Faylasoof

فالتو फ़ालतू is indeed used this way in Urdu but we also use the same for _spare / extra_, i,e, something that is not needed for the moment but is not useless either. ​

فالتو _faaltoo_ = spare (as in spare parts) , extra = زائد۔ _zaaíd_​ 
The other word is: فُضول _fudhool _= superfluous 
( غیر ضروری/ غیر لازم )​


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## Not.A.Linguist

अतिशय sounds like the best fit.


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## bakshink

As Faylasoof has suggested Faaltuu and Fizuul can be used and Bekaar is very often used in most cases but Atishya I am not sure of it's use. 
Atirikat means extra but it's an honorable word so atirikat samay, atirikat adhikaarii can be used but it may be somewhat odd when used derogatorily. Arthshunya? I haven't heard of but to me it seems it should mean same as nirarthak.


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## Not.A.Linguist

Faaltuu, Fizuul, Bekaar carry a bit of negative feel with them. That is not necessary with Superfluous.

अतिशय like Superfluous, doesn't carry a negative bit with it.


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## Faylasoof

In Urdu, _faaltoo_ carries meanings of two kinds:
 فالتو _faaltoo_ = فاضِل _faaDhil_ =  زائد_zaa’id_  = spare
 فالتو_faaltoo_ = فُضول _fuDhool_ =  بے کار _be kaar_  = superfluous / useless

Some examples below. Other ways to express different nuances of these meanings too 

 For items / objects  (& non-rational beings):

 یہ کتاب فالتو ہے 
_yeh kitaab faaltoo hai_ - ambiguous meaning
 1) This book is spare 
 2) This book is useless

 یہ کتاب بالکل فالتو ہے
_yeh kitaab bilkul faaltoo hai_
 This book is totally useless

   یہ کتاب فُضول ہے
_yeh kitaab fuDhool hai_
 This book is useless / superfluous 

  یہ کتاب فاضِل ہے
_yeh kitaab faaDhil hai_
 This is a spare book / This book is extra 


 For people:
  یہ شَخص فالتو ہے
_yeh shaxs faaltoo hai_ - ambiguous meaning
This person is “spare” / an extra / unemployed 
 This person is useless

 یہ شَخص بالکل فالتو ہے
_yeh shaxs bilkul faaltoo hai_
 This person is totally useless

  یہ شَخص فُضول ہے 
_yeh shaxs fuDhool hai  - this would be taken as an insult!_
 This person is useless / superfluous 

 یہ شَخص فاضِل ہے

 yeh shaxs faaDhil hai - _this would be taken as a _ _compliment !_
 _This person is gifted / able _
 

This meaning is made even clearer thus:
 یہ شَخص عالِم  و فاضِل ہے
_yeh shaxs 3aalim o faaDhil hai_
 This person is learned / erudite and able / gifted


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## panjabigator

Great post Faylasoof.  Here is a famous line from Baba Bulleh Shah:

Bulleya parh parh aalim fazil baNe o, oh kadi apne aap nu parhiya nahii


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## omlick

Not.A.Linguist said:


> Faaltuu, Fizuul, Bekaar carry a bit of negative feel with them. That is not necessary with Superfluous.
> 
> अतिशय like Superfluous, doesn't carry a negative bit with it.


 
I disagree with you "superfluous" is a word with a negative connotation of being useless or unnecessary.  "spare" is a word that means extra but may be necessary in the future.


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## Faylasoof

Thanks PG! Could you translate this for me. I've always wanted to read Bulleh Shah. But first I'll have to learn Punjabi! 

I think I got the meaning of the first verse:

Bulleya parh parh aalim fazil baNe o
(_are bulleh paRh paRh keh 3aalim faaDhil bane ho_ (?) <- in Urdu)
O' Bulleh you've become erudite and able by diligent studies

oh kadi apne aap nu parhiya nahii      ??

I'm not at all surprised that Punjabi is using the _3aalim  faazil / faaDhil_ the same way we use it in Urdu. And this really is a term of praise & compliment. Very different from _fuDhool / fuzool _and _faaltoo_! As you know _faaDhil_ and _fuDhool_ share the same root, but have very different meanings.


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## panjabigator

> par kadi apne aap nu parhiya nahii      ??



Magar kabhī apne aap ko parhaa nahii.n
But you've never once studied your own self.

Just listen to the Wadali brothers, Sabri brothers, Abida or good ol' Nusrat.  He's everywhere!


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## Faylasoof

Thanks! Yes, I know he is everywhere. Apart from Wadali brothers, I've heard all the others sings his poems.


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## panjabigator

Faylasoof said:


> Thanks! Yes, I know he is everywhere. Apart from Wadali brothers, I've heard all the others sings his poems.



Try this one: Ghunghat chakh o sajna.   Amazing!


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> Great post Faylasoof. Here is a famous line from Baba Bulleh Shah:
> 
> *Bulleya parh parh aalim fazil baNe o, oh kadi apne aap nu parhiya nahii*


 
Bullha Shah is amazing. For those who know the concepts of Classical poetry he would be classified as the greatest _*shor-angez*_ poet ever! If you come to Pakistan visit his mazaar in Qasoor... As he was quite vocal against the religious leaders of his times, his parents disowned him and had him buried near a garbage dump outside the city, which is now his mazaar...

No offense meant but I think you have a simplified form of the verse... The origninal verse is 

*Bulleya parh parh aalim fazil hoy o, par kadi apne aap nu parhiya ii nahii.*

Not sure about the par, I just tell this out of memory.

The greatest resource on Punjabi literature over the internet is here.


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## panjabigator

You're right!  Thanks Cilqui.  I'm not to sure about the "hoy" part but there is an emphatic "hi" there.


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> You're right! Thanks Cilqui. I'm not to sure about the "hoy" part but there is an emphatic "hi" there.


 
Well I'm absolutely positive about the *hoy* (hue) *o* (ho) part... And if you don't know it already, check out the link at apna.org !


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## panjabigator

Just listened to a version I heard by Wadali Brothers.  Perhaps we're both right; in my version, it's as I've written it plus the emphatic "hi."

Note: I don't mean to suggest that the performance by the Wadali Bro. _is_ the real deal.


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## xcessdenied

hmm how about "Zayed" or "Ghair Zaroori"? Both mean superfluous and are not really as negative sounding as Faltoo.


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## BP.

Not.A.Linguist said:


> Faaltuu, Fizuul, Bekaar carry a bit of negative feel with them. That is not necessary with Superfluous.
> ...



That's because you've only heard them used that way. Take the word _behuuda _for example, it could mean the same thing as _bekaar _does.

Of these _fuzuul _at least has the other meaning: 'excessive'. 

Here's some more Urdu words for superfluous:
_mustazaad _- مستزاد
_zaa2id _- زائد
_izaafii _- اضافی


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> Just listened to a version I heard by Wadali Brothers. Perhaps we're both right; in my version, it's as I've written it plus the emphatic "hi."
> 
> Note: I don't mean to suggest that the performance by the Wadali Bro. _is_ the real deal.


 

It's a common thing among qawwaals to change / simplify adapt the sometimes difficult words of the sufiyaanna kalaam to their public. I have seen this kaafii of bulleh shah in all the printed versions available in PK and I've never seen *baney ho*... It's always written hoyo (= hoya), which is dialectal... type simply aalim faazil in google and check it out.


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## xcessdenied

BelligerentPacifist said:


> That's because you've only heard them used that way. Take the word _behuuda _for example, it could mean the same thing as _bekaar _does.



hehe - I really want to see behuuda being used in a remotely positive sense, or even as bekaar . I've seen it being used in both Punjabi and Urdu but never to imply bekaar.


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## BP.

xcessdenied said:


> hehe - I really want to see behuuda being used in a remotely positive sense, or even as bekaar .


Here's a Rumi couplet with the said usage:
نہ من بیہودہ گردِ کوچہ و بازار میگردم
مذاقِ عاشقی دارم پئے دیدار میگردم


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## xcessdenied

Ah!!! But I meant in Urdu or Punjabi . This verse did come to mind when I was writing this, but then the word Behuda in Urdu/Punjabi has generically acquired a negative meaning.


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## BP.

I'm out of examples for the moment, but you're right it has negative connotations in _3awaamii _parlance.


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I'm out of examples for the moment, but you're right it has negative connotations in _3awaamii _parlance.


 

Indeed, but rather than awaami, I would say this specific conotation has been generalized due to the *khutbay* of the molwi qaum here, if you allow me...


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## BP.

I wouldn't know much about that.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Really??? I just meant to say that this expression has been used a lot in *khutbey* and *bayaan* to replace a word like *fa7aashii* considered a bit too direct. Well that's my perception but i think it's quite accurate.


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## BP.

I'm afraid I haven't attended that many _khtabaat _so can't either substantiate or refute your statement. But I'd say this: AFAIK _faHaashii _is a legal term-_public munkar_- using  an approximate euphemism cannot convey the same idea. But yes an average Joe uses these words interchangeably pretty frequently.


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> using an approximate euphemism cannot convey the same idea.


 
This is the whole point. It definitely comes under a kind of politically correct Urdu...


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