# Tangy



## Paulfromitaly

Hello guys,

I'm a little confused about the translation of the word "tangy" when it refers to flavours (not smells).
Some dictionaries suggest _piccante_, but I've always translated piccante as spicy and I'm quite sure tangy and spicy are not synonyms.
If I think about food and sauce flavours English speakers may describe as tangy, I'm tempted to say it means _agrodolce_, but the latter is usually rendered with sweet-and-sour..
Can tangy and sweet-and-sour be ever considered synonyms?

Thanks


----------



## tomzenith

Well, as far as I know we only ever really use 'sweet and sour' for the Thai sauce, not for anything else. I'd say that closer to 'tangy' is the word 'zesty' (also translated here as 'piccante', and when I think about the kinds of things that it applies to (citrus fruit in particular), I'd say that _agrodolce_ *should *be the right word..

I say *should*, of course, but how often does it work out like that?


----------



## beccamutt

I would definitely NOT say that tangy = spicy.  Something could certainly be tangy without being spicy.  To me it's like agrodolce, heavier on the agro.


----------



## AlabamaBoy

Very interesting question, Paul. The dictionaries in English don't seem to help. I always thought of tangy as sharply sour. Americans since the early 1960's have been influenced by that astronaut drink, Tang, which is largely citric acid mixed with artificial orange flavoring and sugar. Given the sugar, it could be agrodolce, but like Becca says, heavier on the agro.

EDIT: So much citric acid, in fact, that one book suggested the orange flavored drink as a household cleanser!


----------



## Paulfromitaly

I gather that it's very similar to sweet-and-sour, right?
Is ketchup flavour typically tangy for example?


----------



## AlabamaBoy

If there is a lot of vinegar in it, sure.


----------



## You little ripper!

I agree with Wiktionary. To me 'tangy' is a sour, acidic or citrous taste.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> I agree with Wiktionary. To me 'tangy' is a sour, acidic or citrous taste.


I can't find a single word to describe it, though..


----------



## baldpate

Paul, 

sweet-and-sour, as we English know it (see tomzenith's post), has rather too much sweet in it to qualify as tangy.  That, I think, is why he used words like _citrus fruit_ and _zesty_ (the _zest_ of a lemon or lime fruit is the very outer part of the skin, which contains the essential - and very _tangy_ - citrus flavours : these flavours are not at all sweet, they are slightly sharp, very _piquant_).

Similarly, look at some of the words in  AB's posts: "sharply sour"; "citric acid"; "lot of vinegar".

Notice how everybody suggests more _agro_, than _dolce_!

Sure, there can be some sweetness (as AB's post suggests) - but the _main_ enphasis must be _slightly_ sharp and citric.  _piquant_ in other word !

My experience of Chinese/Thai "sweet and sour" sauce is that it is rather too sweet and cloying to qualify as "tangy".  Tomato ketchup is getting closer, but even here the commercial brands have rather too much sugar to qualify [for me].  

Bu now you have to also beware of cultural differences !



Paulfromitaly said:


> I can't find a single word to describe it, though..


Me neither.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Maybe _agro_ is the right word then, although I don't think we use it very often.
I've also pondered aspro, but that's definitely more tart than tangy.


----------



## You little ripper!

Would 'aspro' cover _sour_, _acidic_ and _citrous_? Maybe the first two.

P.S. Bit slow this morning!


----------



## baldpate

*aspro* (from my Hoepli dictionary): sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart, bitter, rough, harsh, sharp.

These are largely nasty-flavour words!

_tangy_ is is a nice-flavour word .  

Something which tastes tangy enlivens the taste-buds (the taste word _zest, _referring to the outer part of a citrus fruit [scorza?], is also used figuratively - "a zest for life"); _tangy_ is definitely a positive word.

If you take something into your mouth which is "sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart, bitter, rough, harsh, sharp." you want to spit it out!  Yuk!

If you take something into your mouth which is "tangy", you think "yummy - more please".


----------



## MStraf

"Tangy" is a very _sharp _odor, smell or taste, I would say "tagliente" (although it is not very used, it gives perfectly the idea)


----------



## You little ripper!

baldpate said:


> *aspro* (from my Hoepli dictionary): sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart, bitter, rough, harsh, sharp.
> 
> These are largely nasty-flavour words!
> 
> _tangy_ is is a nice-flavour word .
> 
> Something which tastes tangy enlivens the taste-buds (the taste word _zest, _referring to the outer part of a citrus fruit [scorza?], is also used figuratively - "a zest for life"); _tangy_ is definitely a positive word.
> 
> If you take something into your mouth which is "sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart, bitter, rough, harsh, sharp." you want to spit it out!  Yuk!
> 
> If you take something into your mouth which is "tangy", you think "yummy - more please".


Bp, that's only as far as the_ rough _and_ harsh_ meanings of that word. As far as the actual taste - sharp, bitter, sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart - I don't see anything nasty about them. They are purely descriptive in my opinion, without a positive or negative connotation.


----------



## baldpate

sharp, acid, vinegary, tart  (??not sure about _tart_??) - I agree, these _could_ be welcome flavours.
bitter, sour,  acerbic (??not sure??) - even as flavours (non figurative meaning) I'm not sure I want these where I keep my tongue 

That said, you are right of course, in the sense that all flavours have their place in the great scheme of taste sensations.  

My main purpose was in classifying them as _nasty_, was to pick out for Paul the words which seemed to have greater (relative) negative connotations than _tangy_.

What do you think about _tangy_ (from an Australian perspective, that is )?


----------



## VolaVer

Interesting question, Paul!

I've wondered myself about the translation for _tangy_ when I was working in a gelato-shop abroad, and all the customers who tried our maracuja/passion fruit would refer to it as 'very tangy', and from behind the counter we would recommend it to those who liked _tangy_. 

Like Charles, I don't find a positive or negative connotation inherent to the term, it is down to personal taste. After all, while some people hate sour, some can eat entire slices of lemon without the bat of an eye! 0.0

I think you can safely use the word _aspro_, like you said, Paul.
It's already been used in this website:
http://www.acai-italia.com/fruittypes/maracuja.php
Although here they still distinguish between sour and tangy...:
http://caipirissima.blogspot.com/2005/01/mousse-de-maracuj-nice-complement-to.html
Oh well...


----------



## TimLA

Very interesting...another untranslatable word!
Corriere gives us:
1 piccante, forte: _a tangy flavour_ un sapore piccante.
2 (of scent) penetrante, intenso, forte.
3 (fig) caratteristico, tipico.

Next time you're in the US, buy some of THIS (as suggested by AB) and describe it in Italian!

It can also be used figuratively.


----------



## rubuk

Paul, cosa pensi dell'uso della parola citrico?
2¢

St.


----------



## You little ripper!

baldpate said:


> sharp, acid, vinegary, tart  (??not sure about _tart_??) - I agree, these _could_ be welcome flavours.
> bitter, sour,  acerbic (??not sure??) - even as flavours (non figurative meaning) I'm not sure I want these where I keep my tongue


 I have often said to friends that the reason I love lemon meringue pie and lemon cheese cake is because of their tartness. There was a period as a child  where I ate lightly salted slices of lemon from the lemon tree we had in our back garden every day. I googled the expressions "love the tartness of" and "love its tartness" and found that there are others who share my fondness for 'tart'.

I love the 'bitter' taste of beer (the word 'bitter' is often included in the name of many beers). I also love the bitter taste of coffee and cocoa.  It is the sourness in foods such sour cream, sourdough bread, balsamic vinegar and sauerkraut that make them foods that people love. 

'Acerbic' is either sour or bitter. It only has the negative definitions of _harsh, sharp_ or _corrosive_ when referring to  tone.

Looking at it from a nutritionist's point of view, whether you like or dislike (consider nasty), have a preference for or otherwise for sweet, salty, sour or bitter is determined by how well certain parts of the digestive system are functioning and whether or not those foods are being metabolized properly.



> What do you think about _tangy_ (from an Australian perspective, that is )?


As far as whether it is considered a positive or a negative, do you mean? Most people here would consider it a positive. And ironically most of the dictionaries I checked give it the definitions of _sour_ and _acidic_.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

baldpate said:


> *aspro* (from my Hoepli dictionary): sour, acid, acerbic, vinegary, tart, bitter, rough, harsh, sharp.



I'm afraid that such a long list of possible translations for the same word tells us there isn't a perfect/right one.



TimLA said:


> Very interesting...another untranslatable word!
> Corriere gives us:
> 1 piccante, forte: _a tangy flavour_ un sapore piccante.
> 2 (of scent) penetrante, intenso, forte.
> 3 (fig) caratteristico, tipico.
> 
> Next time you're in the US, buy some of THIS (as suggested by AB) and describe it in Italian!
> 
> It can also be used figuratively.


I've checked it and I'd say that *piccante* is definitely wrong or very inaccurate, *penetrante, intenso, forte* discribe only the strength of this flavour.
I'll try a can of that and see if I like it 



rubuk said:


> Paul, cosa pensi dell'uso della parola citrico?
> 2¢
> 
> St.


*Citrico* could be correct and very accurate in some specific contexts, but it definitely reminds me of citrus fruits and that limits the range of use of that word in my opinion.

Charles, you've made me realise I'd often mix up tart and tangy..

Thank you everybody.


----------



## spinetta

Would *pungente *be another possible translation? 
(I'm bowing to the habit of saying "pizzica!" both for foods that are spicy and for carbonated drinks)


----------



## Paulfromitaly

spinetta said:


> Would *pungente *be another possible translation?
> (I'm bowing to the habit of saying "pizzica!" both for foods that are spicy and for carbonated drinks)


Di solito preferisco descrivere un odore come pungente, piuttosto che un sapore..direi che un cibo con un tangy flavour può avere anche un odore pungente.


----------



## Primus

I would simply translate it as "spiccato" whatever is the flavour, a taste that persists into your mouth for long.

I wouldn't compare it to "agro", "dolce", "salato", etc.... I think to a famous tortilla chips named Tangy Cheese: really cheesy, really yummy and really strong & persistent flavour!


----------



## rellina

I'm no expert but i'll simply use ACRE!


----------



## beccamutt

Primus said:


> I would simply translate it as "spiccato" whatever is the flavour, a taste that persists into your mouth for long.


 
Sorry, Primus, but not quite.   _Tangy_ does not describe any flavor that lasts for a long time.  It describes a specific flavor (albeit one that can last a while) which I think the previous comments in this thread discuss quite well.


----------



## merquiades

I've been trying to find a suitable word too.  The _tangy_ I want to translate lasts for a long time in the mouth, is slightly acidy or spicy but not too much, not sweet for sure, and it makes you want more.   Maybe _pungente _is the closest but with zero negative connotations.  _Un sapore intenso_ maybe.  The context is _curry vindaloo_


----------



## Odysseus54

As discussed above, it's highly contextual.  Not a single solution.  

As an example, when speaking of cheese, say pecorino or gorgonzola you could have a 'tangy' variety and a 'mild' variety.  In Italian we would say 'piccante' (the tangier gorgonzola is normally described as 'piccante') or 'saporito'.

The opposing couples here would be :

dolce/piccante
delicato/saporito


----------



## Tellure

Odysseus54 said:


> As discussed above, it's highly contextual.  Not a single solution.
> 
> As an example, when speaking of cheese, say pecorino or gorgonzola you could have a 'tangy' variety and a 'mild' variety.  In Italian we would say 'piccante' (the tangier gorgonzola is normally described as 'piccante') or 'saporito'.
> 
> The opposing couples here would be :
> 
> dolce/piccante
> delicato/saporito



Senza dubbio per descrivere il sapore del gorgonzola si usa l'aggettivo "piccante".
Dipende dall'alimento... In linea generale, direi che non si sbaglia con "intenso", "penetrante" o "forte":

1 (= _piquant_, _di sapori, odori_) intenso, penetrante, forte
◊ a tangy aroma un aroma intenso
tangy: traduzione in italiano - Dizionari - La Repubblica


----------



## rrose17

Ody, it could be me, but I can't imagine describing a cheese as tangy, it would sound like it's gone off  more likely would be "sharp". The curry might have a dash of vinegar to give it that tangy taste.


----------



## Odysseus54

Now we know it's vindaloo, I think it's the yoghurt/lassi they cook with.  In Italian, 'pungente', direi.  Non mi spingerei a parlare di acidita', anche se in una discussione 'tecnica' ci starebbe.

Tangy cheese ?  Think of goat cheese, or feta cheese, some pecorinos, ricotta salata.  Sharp would be your aged cheddar, I think.


----------

