# spelling of schwa sound in Latin



## James Bates

A professor of Latin once said that the schwa sound in the second-person singular present active indicative of third conjugation verbs, such as caperis (infinitive: capere), which means "you are being seized", is spelled with an "e". He later said that the schwa sound in the plural imperatives of such verbs, such as capite (infinitive: capere) and ponite (infinitive: ponere), is spelled with an "i". Why the inconsistency in Roman spelling? Could somebody shed some light on this?


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## Scholiast

Salvete!



James Bates said:


> the schwa sound in the second-person singular present active indicative of third conjugation verbs, such as caperis


This is perplexing, and I am wondering who the "professor of Latin" was who made this declaration. The "schwa- " sound familiar in German words, such as _Schwanz_, _Schwager_ is wholly alien to Latin.

Σ


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## James Bates

I was referring to the schwa sound that occurs as the first and last vowels of the English word "America".


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## Scholiast

salvete sodales



James Bates said:


> the schwa sound that occurs as the first and last vowels of the English word "America"



Confusion worse confounded, then. "Schwamericschwa"?

Σ


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## James Bates

http://i.word.com/idictionary/schwa


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## fdb

There is no "schwa" vowel in Latin. Your professor is talking through his hat. /i/ and /e/ are two distinct vowels.


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## Nino83

I've to agree with fdb.  
In fact, these vowels are retained in Romance languages, also in these verbal conjugations.


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## Copperknickers

I assume he was referring to the English pronounciation. As has been said, Latin has no schwa.


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## James Bates

Oh, I see. I wonder why the professor said it did.


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## Copperknickers

I assume he was referring to long and short vowels. In American pronounciation, I can imagine how 2nd sing. present *passive* indicative 'caperis' might be pronounced /kæ:pəris/,* as opposed to the future passive legēris, which is pronounced 'le-gay-riss'. 'Capite' could also be pronounced '/kæ:pətej/'. I think perhaps you misunderstood your professor in thinking that this extended to true native Latin pronounciation, which would be more like /ka:peris/ and /ka:pite/  (cá-peh-reese, cáp-ee-teh). At least I hope so.

*I'm assuming since you know what schwa is that you understand basic IPA: /ə/ is schwa, /æ/ is the American 'a' in 'cat', as opposed to the British English 'a' in 'cat', which is more similar to the American 'o', and ':' signifies that a vowel is long, like in 'can', not cut short, like 'cat' in normal speech. /j/ is y.


Edited to keep unwanted smileys from forming.  Cagey moderator.


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## dcx97

James Bates said:


> A professor of Latin once said that the schwa sound in the second-person singular present active indicative of third conjugation verbs, such as caperis (infinitive: capere), which means "you are being seized", is spelled with an "e". He later said that the schwa sound in the plural imperatives of such verbs, such as capite (infinitive: capere) and ponite (infinitive: ponere), is spelled with an "i". Why the inconsistency in Roman spelling? Could somebody shed some light on this?



I've watched all of Dr. Hans-Friedrich Mueller's Latin lectures (published by the The Teaching Company, Latin 101: Learning a Classical Language) and I can confirm that this is exactly what he says.


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## Pietruzzo

James Bates said:


> A professor of Latin once said that the schwa sound (...) is spelled with an "e". He later said that the schwa sound (...)  is spelled with an "i".


 How is that a "schwa" is pronounced /e/? I guess it's one thing or the other.


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## fdb

Contrary to what I wrote above, the Roman grammarian Quintilian writes that there is a sound intermediate between u and i in “optimum” (I think he means in the second syllable) and between e and i in “here” (usually spelt “heri”), presumably in the last syllable. This is perhaps what the professor had in mind.

_ et medius est quidam u et i litterae sonus (non enim sic "optimum" dicimus ut "opimum"), et in "here" neque e plane neque i auditur._


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## dcx97

Thank you.


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