# Urdu: موزباں(?)



## aevynn

Hi Friends,

Here's a she3r of Abroo's --




Here's what I think this says: 
​har موزباں huaa hai hamaaraa xudaa xudaa​kahtaa huuN har zubaaN seN nisii-din xudaa xudaa​
Am I reading this correctly? If so, what is a موزباں? 

First joke-guess: A دربان is obviously a door-man, and I see in Urdu Lughat that مَوز is a banana, so a مَوزبان is a "banana-man" ?! 

Second joke-guess: When I search for موزباں on Google, basically the only thing that shows up is this Persian poem accompanied by an Urdu translation on Sufinama. I don't know Persian, but based on the Urdu translation, my best guess is that موزباں might correspond to "بال" ...? 

Neither "banana-man" nor "hair" seems particularly appropriate. Could someone help orient me?


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## marrish

I hope you are able to come up with a solution yourself after I point out other issues first, so I'm leaving the "real" question at hand unanswered. What a lovely poem, though. Probably the more you are able to comprehend the elements of this _shi3r_ the better grasp you'll get of the remaining part:



aevynn said:


> har موزباں huaa hai hamaaraa xudaa xudaa* judaa judaa*


I remember you having mentioned a specific problem with reading but that post is no more there 


aevynn said:


> kahtaa huuN har zubaaN seN nis*ii-*din xudaa xudaa


Provided there's no _pesh_ ( ُ ) on ز the pronunciation z*a*baaN with a zabar seems a more probable choice.


marrish said:


> ۷۔ آنسو کی جگہ انجھو، ذرا کی جگہ نپٹ، *ہر دن کی نس دن* استعمال ہوا ہے۔


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> Here's a she3r of Abroo's --
> View attachment 68258
> Here's what I think this says:
> ​har موزباں huaa hai hamaaraa xudaa xudaa​kahtaa huuN har zubaaN seN nisii-din xudaa xudaa​
> Am I reading this correctly? If so, what is a موزباں?
> 
> First joke-guess: A دربان is obviously a door-man, and I see in Urdu Lughat that مَوز is a banana, so a مَوزبان is a "banana-man" ?!
> 
> Second joke-guess: When I search for موزباں on Google, basically the only thing that shows up is this Persian poem accompanied by an Urdu translation on Sufinama. I don't know Persian, but based on the Urdu translation, my best guess is that موزباں might correspond to "بال" ...?
> 
> Neither "banana-man" nor "hair" seems particularly appropriate. Could someone help orient me?


It is nis-din by the way and I won’t answer your question and spoil marrish SaaHib’s post.


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## aevynn

I wonder if it's possible to be dyslexic only when reading nasta3liiq. I know this is not the first time I've confused ج and خ... 

----

Could the first bit be variant orthography for حرم و زباں, ie, "our sacred places and languages have become separate"...? A tower-of-Babel-type splintering of languages and religions fits well with him finding himself having to say "'xudaa xudaa' in every language, day and night," but I'm uncomfortable about assuming that Abroo might have used ہ instead of ح...

----

Regarding نس دن... Here's my attempt at analyzing the meter of the she3r, but I could very well be wrong. My understanding is that nis-din would have to be analyzed == (using Pritchett and Khaliq's notation, ie, as two long syllables), but this results in the second line having too few syllables to match the first line...? On the other hand, if Abroo intended it to be pronounced nisii-din, we would have -x= (short flexible long), and that would match the first line, and the overall meter could be "مضارع مثمّن اخرب مکفوف محذوف" (==-=-=--==-=-=).



HarmozabaaNhuaahaihamaaraajudaajudaakahtaahuuNharzabaaNseNnisdinxudaaxudaakahtaahuuNharzabaaNseNnisiidinxudaaxudaa=x-=-xx-==-x-=


I guess this analysis does kind of assume that the first few words match this proposed "حرم و زباں" in meter, and I could still wrong about that...


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## Qureshpor

I think marrish SaaHib should divulge what he has up his sleeve😀 and put you out of your “misery”! He has “forced” you to go through taqtii3 about which I for certain have not the slightest clue! I just pointed out your typo “nisii-din”.

It seems this “dyslexia” for the letters ج and خ is a shared experience between you and Gope SaaHib.😀


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## aevynn

Or could it be ہر مو زباں where مو means "hair"? "Each of my hairs have has become a separate tongue," and in the second line he's saying "xudaa xudaa" with each of his tongues?


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## aevynn

Qureshpor said:


> It seems this “dyslexia” for the letters ج and خ is a shared experience between you and Gope SaaHib.😀


I guess this thread highlights not just ج خ dyslexia, but also the short-vowel insertion business that I mentioned in that other thread, and also the "spacing" issue that Gop jii mentioned! 

----
Whew, thanks for confirming @marrish jii 

Could you also comment on the metrical scansion? It seems "har muu zabaaN" (=x-x) does fit into the same metrical constraints as "Haram-o-zabaan" (=x-x) :



harmuuzabaaNhuaahaihamaaraajudaajudaakahtaahuuNharzabaaNseNnisdinxudaaxudaakahtaahuuNharzabaaNseNnisiidinxudaaxudaa=x-=-xx-==-x-=


In other words, it still seems to me like we need نس دن to be pronounced "nisii-din" (-x=) rather than "nis-din" (==) so that the meter in both lines matches...? Or have I gone wrong somewhere?

----
It seems like hair turning into tongues is something of a literary trope....? I guess in that Persian poem I linked to in the OP, it must also be "ہر مو زباں" that was intended and the transcriber missed the space. I also see the same trope of hairs turning into tongues in this poem of Mir's. What's the history of this trope?


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## Qureshpor

I suppose the “history of this trope” could be the same or similar to “rom rom meN basne vaale raam”. Beyond that, one will have to do a bit of research for this metaphor.

I don’t believe the average reader is expected to read Urdu poetry according to its precise scansion rules. So, for people like me, it’s just nis-din.😀


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## marrish

I'm afraid I can't do better than this. Perhaps reading the shi3r in context could help.

ہَر ۔۔ مُو ۔۔ ز َ ۔بَاں ۔۔ ہ‍ ُ۔ؤا  ۔۔ ہَے ۔ہَ‍ ۔ مَا۔۔ رَا۔۔  ج‍ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔   ج‍ ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔

کَہ‍ْ ۔۔ تَا ۔۔  ہُوں ۔ہَر ۔۔ زَ۔ بَاں۔۔ سیں ۔نِسْ۔۔ دِنْ۔۔  خ‍ ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔   خ‍ ُ۔ ﺪَا۔۔


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## aevynn

marrish said:


> I'm afraid I can't do better than this...
> 
> ہَر ۔۔ مُو ۔۔ ز َ ۔بَاں ۔۔ ہ‍ ُ۔ؤا ۔۔ ہَے ۔ہَ‍ ۔ مَا۔۔ رَا۔۔ ج‍ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔ ج‍ ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔
> 
> کَہ‍ْ ۔۔ تَا ۔۔ ہُوں ۔ہَر ۔۔ زَ۔ بَاں۔۔ سیں ۔نِسْ۔۔ دِنْ۔۔ خ‍ ُ ۔ ﺪَا۔۔ خ‍ ُ۔ ﺪَا۔۔


Thanks! It looks like you ran into the same problem as I did with "nis-din." The first line has 14 syllables, but scanning نس دن as "nis-din" leads to the second line having 13.



marrish said:


> Perhaps reading the shi3r in context could help.


It unfortunately is a standalone she3r, not part of a ghazal, so we can't compare against anything else.

I don't know how relevant it is, but I'm pretty convinced that ghazal that immediately follows this she3r in the diivaan is in "مضارع مثمّن اخرب مکفوف محذوف" (==-=-=--==-=-=), ie, exactly the same meter the she3r under discussion in this thread would be in if we scan نس دن as "nisii-din." It maybe doesn't seem too surprising that Abroo may have intended "nisii-din," given that "निसि दिन" and "निसिदिन" occur reasonably often in coincident poetical traditions.


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## aevynn

aevynn said:


> It seems like hair turning into tongues is something of a literary trope.... What's the history of this trope?





Qureshpor said:


> Beyond that, one will have to do a bit of research for this metaphor.


Here's a snippet from the "Routledge Handbook on Christian-Muslim relations" (ed. David Thomas) that suggests that this trope of all of one's hairs turning into tongues goes back at least to Persian poet Khaqani in the 1100s.


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## Qureshpor

I shall ask a friend who is an Urdu poet about the scansion of nis-din. It seems to be causing sleepless nights!😀

Regarding muu, in Abroo’s time the pronunciation is likely to be mo and in Khaqani’s period this is extremely likely. A moo won’t be muuii but mo’e.


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> Here's a snippet from the "Routledge Handbook on Christian-Muslim relations" (ed. David Thomas) that suggests that this trope of all of one's hairs turning into tongues goes back at least to Persian poet Khaqani in the 1100s.
> 
> View attachment 68301


I am not really convinced with this explanation!


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> Or could it be ہر مو زباں where مو means "hair"? "Each of my hairs have has become a separate tongue," and in the second line he's saying "xudaa xudaa" with each of his tongues?


har mo zabaaN hu’aa hai hamaaraa judaa judaa
kahtaa huuN har zabaaN se nis-din xudaa xudaa

Every single hair of mine has become a tongue, separately
With each tongue I utter daily, name of the Almighty


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## Qureshpor

Qureshpor said:


> I shall ask a friend who is an Urdu poet about the scansion of nis-din. It seems to be causing sleepless nights!😀
> 
> Regarding muu, in Abroo’s time the pronunciation is likely to be mo and in Khaqani’s period this is extremely likely. A moo won’t be muuii but mo’e.


My friend, Raj Kumar Pathria SaaHib, a retired professor of quantum physics and an Urdu poet with publications under his name, says the word “zabaaN” should be “zabaan”.


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## aevynn

This is only tangentially relevant to this thread, but I ran into the following in Steingass's entry for مو ---

_mū az zabān bar-āwardan (rustan), mū bar zabān āmadan (sabz shudan), mū bar-āwardani zabān_, To talk a great deal to no purpose​​The imagery here is not the same: it seems that these idioms are rather about hair growing out of one's tongue...? Interestingly, there appears to be a similar idiom in Greek as well ("Μαλλιασε η γλώσσα μου").


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## aevynn

Qureshpor said:


> My friend, Raj Kumar Pathria SaaHib, a retired professor of quantum physics and an Urdu poet with publications under his name, says the word “zabaaN” should be “zabaan”.


 Thanks to Prof Raj Kumar Pathria! Yes, changing "zabaaN" to "zabaan" in the second line does fix the meter.


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> Thanks to Prof Raj Kumar Pathria! Yes, changing "zabaaN" to "zabaan" in the second line does fix the meter.


Have you noticed anything about the pronouns in the shi3r?


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## aevynn

Qureshpor said:


> Have you noticed anything about the pronouns in the shi3r?


jii haaN, @Qureshpor jii  Abroo seems to use a "nosism" (ie, a first-person singular _ham_) in the first line, and then immediately switches to typical first-person singular conjugations in the second line!

I believe this usage has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Here are some relevant threads that I was able to find:

Hindi-Urdu: How to explain the use of 'Hum'​Hindi-Urdu-Awadhi: ham​Urdu: ham instead of maiN​​I guess we now know that these nosisms have a long history!


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> I shall ask a friend who is an Urdu poet about the scansion of nis-din. It seems to be causing sleepless nights!😀
> 
> Regarding muu, in Abroo’s time the pronunciation is likely to be mo and in Khaqani’s period this is extremely likely. A moo won’t be muuii but mo’e.


Thank you for providing the right scansion , what a relief! aevynn SaaHib was just taking revenge for the last trap I'd set for him and is testing the limits of my knowledge  Re. muu/mo, I think I found  something in support of your reading (what do you think?)



but elsewhere, مو is set to rhyme with _tuu_


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## aevynn

marrish said:


> aevynn SaaHib was just taking revenge for the last trap I'd set for him and is testing the limits of my knowledge


No revenge, @marrish jii~! I am clearly just *clueless* --- as you can see in the OP, my first attempted interpretation of the first line of this she3r was "Every banana-man has become our god, our god".... 



marrish said:


> Re. muu/mo, I think I found something in support of your reading (what do you think?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but elsewhere, مو is set to rhyme with _tuu_


Great finds!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Thank you for providing the right scansion , what a relief! aevynn SaaHib was just taking revenge for the last trap I'd set for him and is testing the limits of my knowledge  Re. muu/mo, I think I found  something in support of your reading (what do you think?)
> View attachment 68338
> but elsewhere, مو is set to rhyme with _tuu_View attachment 68340


Thank you but I had already found this before commenting. Besides I know this word exists in the kalaam of later poets.


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> jii haaN, @Qureshpor jii  Abroo seems to use a "nosism" (ie, a first-person singular _ham_) in the first line, and then immediately switches to typical first-person singular conjugations in the second line!
> 
> I believe this usage has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Here are some relevant threads that I was able to find:
> 
> Hindi-Urdu: How to explain the use of 'Hum'​Hindi-Urdu-Awadhi: ham​Urdu: ham instead of maiN​​I guess we now know that these nosisms have a long history!


No, you may call the switch of pronouns as “nosisms” but in Urdu literary tradition, this is termed as a “shutur-gurbah” i.e camel-cat (a mis-match) that is considered a “naqs” but even great poets are occasionally prone to its commission.


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## aevynn

"daa" ke qaafiye aur "muzaari3 musamman axrab makfuuf maHzuuf" kii baHr meN, is naa_qaabil kaa ek she3r 3arz-e-xidmat hai ---

ho xush-nawaa'ii yaa ho shutur-gurbe kii Sadaa,
meraa zabaanoN kii hai lachak par hii dil fidaa!


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> "daa" ke qaafiye aur "mazaari3 musamman axrab makfuuf maHzuuf" ke baHr meN, is naa_qaabil kaa ek she3r 3arz-e-xidmat hai ---
> 
> ho xush-nawaa'ii yaa ho shutur-gurbe kii Sadaa,
> meraa zabaanoN kii hai lachak par hii dil fidaa!


muzaari3... baHr is feminine. I am not sure if shutur-gurbah is declined to shutur gurbe. (My reply is to an off topic post!)


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