# Urdu: Substitute



## omlick

Hi, 

I am working on a table of hindi-urdu synonyms, and my word of interest of the day is "substitute" as in Splenda is a good substitute for sugar.

For hindi I have प्रतिनिधि pratinidhi  and स्थानापन्न  sthaanaapann, I don't know which one is the more common of the two words.  Platts online gives this for Urdu: وکالت _wakālat_ or _wikālat_ 

Is that a popular word for it?  

bahut shukriyah


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## Illuminatus

Pratinidhi means representative/delegate and is only used for people, not things. So it is completely wrong.
I have never heard of Sthanapann, so I can at least confirm that it is unidiomatic. Plus, its part of speech doesn't seem correct.

I will think of a word that fits in and post here. At the moment, I am not able to think of a literal translation.

_Wakalat_, as I know it, means something like advocacy.

Eg. _kisi cheez ki wakaalat karna_ = to advocate it


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## BP.

An Urdu word for substitute is *mutabaadil* - *متبادل*.

*wakeel* is a person who does something on your behalf. The term has come to stick for lawyers because law is complicated and you need an expert to present your case even if you have the right to do so yourself. Hence *wakaalat*: advocacy.


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## lcfatima

For practical purposes, I would probably use a post position construction for the query example: _Aap shakkar ke bajaaey Splenda istemaal kar sakte hai.N_ in common language, or use the English word substitute, so I'd be interested to know how to construct the sentence with _mutabaadil_. _Splenda shakkar ka mutabaadil hai _???

I get the b/d/l root and all...can we also use _mutabaadil_ as a person, like a subsitute teacher?


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## panjabigator

Curious, would ھمشكل work in this context?



Illuminatus said:


> I have never heard of Sthanapann, so I can at least confirm that it is unidiomatic. Plus, its part of speech doesn't seem correct.



I looked in McGregor's Oxford Hindi dictionary and <sthānāpann> is given as both an adj. and n.m., so what about the part of speech seems incorrect?


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## BP.

PG, _hamshakl _in people terms is _look-alike_. Too, any homomorphic mathematical function (sorry for this lame example) i.e. any two things you could draw exact parallels between.


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## omlick

What about قائم ماقم?  I saw this in two different dictionaries, the online one and the one I have from Oxford English-Urdu.


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## BP.

_qaa-im maqaam_ would mean _stand-in _[or _interim_/_deputy_ etc]. Usable for people only.


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## omlick

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _qaa-im maqaam_ would mean _stand-in _[or _interim_/_deputy_ etc]. Usable for people only.


 
acchaa, to yah lagtaa hai ki bahut mushkil savaal hai.




شکریہ


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## Illuminatus

As I had never heard the word before, the form appeared to me to be some sort of a past-participle.


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## BP.

omlick said:


> acchaa, to yah lagtaa hai ki bahut mushkil savaal hai.
> 
> شکریہ



Which sawaal would that be? I thought your question had been adequately answered with _mutabaadil_.


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## Illuminatus

Mere xayaal se unhe Hindi ka shabd bhi chahiye


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## bakshink

How surprising? I wanted to write exactly what Illuminatus has written but since that wouldn't have helped Omlick anyway- I refrained. No matter what these online dictionaries say- Pratinidhi is absolutely wrong- it is known to mean only representative- if Pratinidhi has a synonym meaning substitute- then no one knows it. And the other word Sathanapan- I don't know- never heard of it... but then so far, I haven't been able to think of or find a suitable word yet


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## omlick

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Which sawaal would that be? I thought your question had been adequately answered with _mutabaadil_.


 
Yep, sorry, for some reason I was not paying enough attention. 


so

shakkar ke liye "splenda" acchaa mutabaadil hai, lekin "stevia" behtar hai

And this is used for inanaimates I would assume.

Thanks so much, it is going into my synomyn table with the word sthaanaapann (which I saw in an "ingredient substitution" table written in Hindi for cooking/baking, etc.  )


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## lcfatima

> shakkar ke liye "splenda" acchaa mutabaadil hai, lekin "stevia" behtar hai


 
This sounds like how it would be translated word for word in English, but is it grammatical in Urdu? Should we use _ke liye_ with _mutabaadil_? No one ever answered about my request for an example of how to use it. I wasn't sure if _X Y ka mutabaadil_ _hai_ is okay, or _Y ke liye X mutabaadil/acchaa mutabaadil hai_ is okay.


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## omlick

lcfatima said:


> This sounds like how it would be translated word for word in English, but is it grammatical in Urdu? Should we use _ke liye_ with _mutabaadil_? No one ever answered about my request for an example of how to use it. I wasn't sure if _X Y ka mutabaadil_ _hai_ is okay, or _Y ke liye X mutabaadil/acchaa mutabaadil hai_ is okay.


 

It is true, I have not seen it used in a sentence either. But I would suspect my "Urdglish" would be understood.

I was thinking maybe:

skhakkar kii jagah "splenda" mutabaadil taur par acchaa hai.  (I have seen this use with sthaanaapan in hindi writing)


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## BP.

Sorry fatima for missing out on your need for examples.

It should be _ka mutabaadil_ and not _kay liyay mutabaadil_, e.g. _xyz kay zakhmi ho jaanay kay b'ad un*ka* mutabaadil khilaaRi maidaan mai.n bhaij diya gaya_.


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## omlick

*پل تباہ، نیٹو رسد کا متبادل راستہ*

*ٰI found this one in a google hit, a BBC Urdu headline. I think it means something like "ruined bridge: NATO's  alternate import route."*


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## bakshink

I think Sthanaapan is OK though the word seems to be newly coined. In fact with the Indian government's pursuance of encouraging hindi for official use much research is being done by lexicographers and new words are being evolved and adopted but such words may not easily find acceptance from common people who prefer to use "hindlish" instead. Thus far we have been making do with "uski jagah"  as a substitute for substitute   and will continue to do so. I am reminded of a joke- Once a person landed in Chandigarh(Punjabi dominated-hindlish speaking town) from U.P./ Bihar(Predominantly Hindi speaking States) and he wanted to go to the Secretariat. So he asked one Rickshaw-puller "Arre bhaiee "Sachivalaya" chalne ka kya logey?" The Rickshaw-puller asked "Wo kidar hai saab?" The man replied "Arre bahiee wo Secretariat jo teen sector main hai?" The Rickshaw-puller smiled and said. "Haan Saab- Magar aap log pahle hi Hindi main kyon nahin bolte?" Sachivalaya is Hindi for Secretariat.... Sthan in Hindi is "place" and -"aapan" I will try to check... But I think the sentence formation will be like--- X kuchh din ke liye Y ka sathanaapan kareinge jo aswasth ("Beemar"- "ill") hain


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## Illuminatus

I just remembered. _Vikalp, _which means option, can be used to mean substitute.

_Eg, Splenda shakkar ka accha vikalp hai. 

_It does not exactly mean substitute, rather, it means that A is another good option instead of B


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## bakshink

yes Vikalp means alternative and it can very well work as a substitute but not in every sense of the word- Aap ke pas koyee aur vikalp nahin hai kya? Don't you have any other choice?- Doosra koyee vikalp sujhayeay- Suggest some other alternative- But Shree X Shree Y ke liye vikalp honge jo kuchh din ke liye chhuti par gaye hain- I think will be wrong


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## Faylasoof

Here is more:



(3iwaDh) عوض  substitute; in lieu of; in exchange for.
بدل (badal) substitution; exchange etc.

كسی چیز كے بدلے میں كچھ اور لینا \ استعمال كرنا
كسی چیز كے عوض میں كچھ اور لینا \ استعمال كرنا
To take / use one thing as a substitute for another

یہ اُس كا بدل ہے
یہ اُس كا عِوَض ہے
یہ اُس كے عِوَض میں ہے
etc.

This is a substitute for that
This is in exchange for that

متبادل  mutabaadil is related to بدل badal via the Arabic root  ب د ل   b-d-l

میں نے ایك متبادل ملازمت \ نوكری تلاش کرلی \  ڈھوڈ لی  ہے
I have found alternative employment


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