# Hindi-Urdu: riyaaz रियाज़ رياض



## albondiga

Hi all,

I'm wondering about the scope of <riyaaz>.  I know it can be used for singing and music and dancing and the like...  (1) Would it be used for sports, e.g., the daily training of a distance runner or football player or cricketer?  (2)What about "practicing" a language?  (i.e., would I need <riyaaz> of my Hindi, or would that just sound completely weird?  if it's ok, then how would it work in a sentence, and if not, then how would I express this better?)

Thanks!


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## Faylasoof

I’ve always associated _riyaaz_ = _riyaadh _(رِیاض ) with Indian music & dancing! 

_Riyaaz_ = _riyaadh_  ( رِیاض ) comes from the verb (راض ), which in Arabic has the meaning of : to practice, to get trained, to drill, to exercise.  It also means to ‘discipline o.s.; to lead an ascetic life, perform spiritual exercises’. (Sufis were known for that). [There is also ‘_uloom riyaadhiyaat_ علوم ریاضیّات = mathematics!] 

  Funnily enough in Urdu we do not use it in this general sense of practice, either in sports or studies, for which we use _mashq _(مَشق ), derived from the verb _mashaqa_ (مَشَقَ ), which can also mean to practice/ drill etc.

 So let us wait and hear from people well versed in Modern Hindi whether you could use _riyaaz _in a more general sense. In Classical Arabic it did have that meaning.


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## panjabigator

I believe Hindi and Urdu use <riyaaz> the same way.

As for practicing a language, I would say <bolne kaa abhyaas/mashq karnaa>.  "Riyaaz-ing" a language just sounds odd.  With sports, the only word that comes to mind is used for general excercises: <kasrat>.


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## Faylasoof

Well not us! We've always used _mashq_ for any kind of practice. Certainly in our family we never used _riyaaz/riyaadh_ even for music! Just a habit I think.

... and even for sports / excercises we say _mashq karnaa_ - also use _kasrat karnaa (for certain physical exercise) _but mashq is used by us for every and any kind of practice.  Usage:

maine aaj apne sabaq ki mashqooN ko mukammal kiyaa

Today I completed the exercises of my lesson


mujhe krikit / kirkit (!) khelne ki mashq nahee rahee

I've lost practice playing cricket


ab meiN is zabaan ki mashq kar raha hooN

I'm now practicing this language


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## Illuminatus

Riyaaz (रियाज़) is widely used and understood only in the sense of music. Practising and honing one's musical skills by doing vocal exercises etc. constitutes Riyaaz. People often associate it with the discipline that is needed to maintain one's voice quality and singing skills.

It constitutes an important part of training for Classical Music. The training might end after a few years, but Riyaaz needs to be continued forever.

We might jokingly use it with other disciplines, like sports, but that will always be in reference to the Musical term.

BP's wonderful Urdu posts make me feel guilty of not introducing new Hindi vocabulary, so here I go.

For <to practice>, we normally use <abhyaas karna> अभ्यास करना
<constantly> is _nirantar_ निरंतर - I think it comes from Ni: + Antar = Without breaks in the middle = Constant

<koi bhi bhaasha seekh.ne ke liye nirantar abhyaas karna paRta hai> कोई भी भाषा सीखने के लिए निरंतर अभ्यास करना पड़ता है| - One needs to practise constantly in order to learn any language.


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## Faylasoof

Yes! I should have also mentioned vocal practice when I said we associate _riyaaz_ with Indian Classical Music - not just intrumental- and as the art demands, it is a very long process.  

Well, it is for good reasons they say practice makes perfect!

... and I too haven't heard it being used for sports or anything other than music.


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## lcfatima

In Arabic Riyaadhah means sports, is that why you ask?

When Riyaaz is given as someone's name, the meaning is gardens (plural of raudhah, garden). Like the city of Riyaadh in Saudi Arabia. 

Just another layer of meaning as per your query.


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## lcfatima

In Urdu, is _varzish karna_ just exercize as in moving around for health/weight control purposes? Or can that also be applied to sportsmen?


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## Faylasoof

lcfatima said:


> In Arabic Riyaadhah means sports, is that why you ask?
> 
> When Riyaaz is given as someone's name, the meaning is gardens (plural of raudhah, garden). Like the city of Riyaadh in Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Just another layer of meaning as per your query.




 In MSA (Modern Standard Arabic), which is essentially the classical language, the word for _sports_ is indeed riyaadhah (  رِياضَة )- a link to the sports page from a Lebanese newspaper.


[The related words are, as you say, raudhah (رَوضَة ) pl. riyaadh (رِياض ), meaning:  meadow, garden, mausoleum and Paradise!]


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## Faylasoof

lcfatima said:


> In Urdu, is _varzish karna_ just exercize as in moving around for health/weight control purposes? Or can that also be applied to sportsmen?



Normally by _varzish / kasrat karnaa_ we imply certain kinds of exercises, e.g. free-hand (callisthenics) exercises or those using weights and/ or spring cables, exercise machines etc. Also, because we do not have a specific word for gymnastics, we could also use these words for that. But we do not use _varzish /kasrat _for sports in general, e.g. football, cricket, golf etc. For these we use the term general _khel_ (كھیل ) and the player is of course a _khilaaRee_ (كِھلاڑی ).


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## albondiga

This is clearing up a lot for me... I had encountered <kasrat> and <abhyaas> in learning materials, but I do not recall actually  have heard them used; good to know that that are, and even better to know HOW they are used!  I had encountered <riyaaz> at some point and looked it up, and the definition was something like "_practice, exercise, training.  Esp. for singing, dancing, etc._"  <mashq> is new to me... but this discussion has cleared up a lot about the uses of all these words... thanks!


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## lcfatima

Is this the same kasrat that means something like abundance, opposite qillat? Or is it a different spelling?

Also, I looked in an Urdu language book which I own, and another meaning given for the same root as riyaaz is Riyaazat, the similar to ziyaarat, a religious journey or an act of devotion. Is that an obscure meaning?


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## BP.

No Icf that's کثرت not کسرت.

Even though all these words may be literal synonyms, for my ears _kasrat_ implies physical training for wrestling or other similar sports, _riyaaz_ for your vocal chords, and _mashq_ for any sort of practice, whether in sports, arts, studies...


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## Faylasoof

lcfatima said:


> Is this the same kasrat that means something like abundance, opposite qillat? Or is it a different spelling?
> 
> Also, I looked in an Urdu language book which I own, and another meaning given for the same root as riyaaz is Riyaazat, the similar to ziyaarat, a religious journey or an act of devotion. Is that an obscure meaning?




Actually they are different words! 
kasrat كسرت  = excercise /training --- Hindi
kathrat كثرت = abundance etc.---- Arabic

The derivative رِياضَة / ریاضت, in Urdu has the same meaning as I mention above (post2), i.e. training one's body for spiritual purposes etc. I don't think a journey is involved as such. One could of course take a religious journey (زیارت) as part of the spiritual exercise.


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> I’ve always associated _riyaaz_ = _riyaadh _(رِیاض ) with Indian music & dancing!
> 
> _Riyaaz_ = _riyaadh_  ( رِیاض ) comes from the verb (راض ), which in Arabic has the meaning of : to practice, to get trained, to drill, to exercise.  It also means to ‘discipline o.s.; to lead an ascetic life, perform spiritual exercises’. (Sufis were known for that). [There is also ‘_uloom riyaadhiyaat_ علوم ریاضیّات = mathematics!]




I am pricking an ancient thread here but is the verb given above to be pronunced as Ridh or Riz, since the word on its own seems to be Ridh but since we have Riaz as a adaptive derivation than the latter too can be possible.


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## Faylasoof

Sheikh_14 said:


> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof* I’ve always associated _riyaaz_ = _riyaadh _(رِیاض ) with Indian music & dancing!
> 
> _Riyaaz_ = _riyaadh_  ( رِیاض ) comes from the verb (راض ), which in Arabic has the meaning of : to practice, to get trained, to drill, to exercise.  It also means to ‘discipline o.s.; to lead an ascetic life, perform spiritual exercises’. (Sufis were known for that). [There is also ‘_uloom riyaadhiyaat_ علوم ریاضیّات = mathematics!]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am pricking an ancient thread here but is the verb given above to be pronunced as Ridh or Riz, since the word on its own seems to be Ridh but since we have Riaz as a adaptive derivation than the latter too can be possible.
Click to expand...

 Well, neither as far as the vowel pronunciation goes since there is an _alif_ in راض making it _*raaDha*_ as the way it is pronounced in Arabic. The rest is about transliteration and here I must say that we have changed the way of representing the Arabic *ض* . I used to write it as above (_*dh*_) but to distinguish it from an aspirated _*dh*_ (as in a _dhuum-dhaRak_) I now represent the ض as _*Dh*_.

Further elaborating on the verb, the original spelling was  رَوَضَ _*rawaDha*_, but the _zabar_ on the و  _wau_ caused it to become an ا _alif_, hence  رَاضَ *raaDha*.


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> Well, neither as far as the vowel pronunciation goes since there is an _alif_ in راض making it _*raaDha*_ as the way it is pronounced in Arabic. The rest is about transliteration and here I must say that we have changed the way of representing the Arabic *ض* . I used to write it as above (_*dh*_) but to distinguish it from an aspirated _*dh*_ (as in a _dhuum-dhaRak_) I now represent the ض as _*Dh*_.
> 
> Further elaborating on the verb, the original spelling was  رَوَضَ _*rawaDha*_, but the _zabar_ on the و  _wau_ caused it to become an ا _alif_, hence  رَاضَ *raaDha*.



As this word has caught me at a blind spot if you could purvey a sample usage of the word rawadha it would be of enormous help.

Thank you in advance Faylasoof sahib.


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## Faylasoof

Sheikh Sb, I think you may have misunderstood my post! Firstly, the verb رَوَضَ _*rawaDha *_is, as you know not Urdu but Arabic and we only discuss Arabic verbs here merely to clarify certain derived uses in Urdu. Besides, as I explain above, the actual verb ends up as  رَاضَ *raaDha. *If you wish to discuss this further then our Arabic forum would be the obvious place.


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## Sheikh_14

lcfatima said:


> Is this the same kasrat that means something like abundance, opposite qillat? Or is it a different spelling?
> 
> Also, I looked in an Urdu language book which I own, and another meaning given for the same root as riyaaz is Riyaazat, the similar to ziyaarat, a religious journey or an act of devotion. Is that an obscure meaning?



However surely since katheer of arabic is where the abundance kasrat derives from and since it incorporates not the letter siin giving an 's' sound but rather a th it should be kathrat for abundance and Kasrat for exercise. If this is not the case could someone cjlarify the pronunciations for they are spelt differently and their linguistic roots too differ. One is of Arabic the other hindi origin.


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## Wolverine9

Sheikh_14 said:


> However surely since katheer of arabic is  where the abundance kasrat derives from and since it incorporates not  the letter siin giving an 's' sound but rather a th it should be kathrat  for abundance and Kasrat for exercise. If this is not the case could  someone cjlarify the pronunciations for they are spelt differently and  their linguistic roots too differ. One is of Arabic the other hindi  origin.



Both kaϑrat "abundance" and kasrat "a breaking" are of Arabic origin.  kasrat "exercise" is derived from the latter word, but is sometimes spelled kaϑrat instead, probably out of confusion because the two words are pronounced the same.  They were borrowed via Persian as an intermediary, and in Persian, the Arabic /ϑ/ is pronounced as /s/.


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## tanveer shah

Thanks for the inforamtion's posted!
I hope it will be helpful for me)
Glad that I have come across the post today!


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> Actually they are different words!
> kasrat كسرت  = excercise /training --- Hindi
> kathrat كثرت = abundance etc.---- Arabic
> 
> And I assume pronounced differently too as you have demonstrated above, correct?


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## Faylasoof

Sheikh_14 said:


> Faylasoof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they are different words!
> kasrat كسرت  = excercise /training --- Hindi
> kathrat كثرت = abundance etc.---- Arabic
> 
> And I assume pronounced differently too as you have demonstrated above, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> No, not really! In Urdu (and Persian), unlike Arabic, we don't distinguish between  س and ث sounds, so the two words sound the same! The context will tell you which of the two is meant
Click to expand...


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## Sheikh_14

Yeah agreed in Urdu the difference between the two letters is very subtle, but there is a distinction, primarily tonal. Nowhere near as clear as it is in Arabic. But according to Platts kasrat I.e. exercise is also derived from the Arabic Kasra and thence means "breaking in", eventhough for some reason Platts has spelt it with a redundant alif. It evokes the idea of breaking into your body like a new shoe, that isn't quite how you need it to be. Btw, I assume kasrat is feminine and thence the plural would be kasrateiN and kasraat for exercises?

کسرات kasrat (for A. کسرة kasrat, 'a breaking'; see kasr, and kasra) , s.f. lit. 'Breaking in the body'; training, exercise, bodily or athletic exercise; practice, usage, habit: — kasrat karnā, To train, to practise oneself in athletic or gymnastic exercises.


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