# How long have you studied / been studying (perfect/continuous)



## Aidasp

Hello,

Could you explain me the difference between this two questions?


How long have you studied English?
How long have been studing English?
It is the difference between present perfect and present perfect continous. I've never known when I can use it.

Thanks a lot


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## jacinta

There is not much difference between the two.  They mean practically the same thing.  
The only slight difference is that present continuous is used for an action that is ongoing right at this moment.  It has more immediacy.  But, you can use either tense to say the same.


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## Crescent

Hola! 
Yo entiendo bien su pregunta: es en efecto un poco dificil explicar esta pequena diferencia entre las dos frases, pero intentaré a ayudarle. 
En la primera frase - sobrentiende que la accion es terminada, completa. Eso es el tiempo perfecto. 
Pero en la segunda frase - la accion se esta continuando, y no es completa. Quiere decir que la persona esta todavia aprendiendo el ingles. 

Pero las respuestas para esas dos frases son las mismas! Pienso que eso es lo que es si dificil para los extranjeros!


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## jacinta

Crescent said:


> Hola!
> En la primera frase - sobrentiende que la accion es terminada, completa. Eso es el tiempo perfecto.
> Pero las respuestas para esas dos frases son las mismas! Pienso que eso es lo que es si dificil para los extranjeros!



I´m sorry to disagree with you but the present perfect is not used for a completed action.  It is just the opposite.  It is used for an action that is not completed:

I *have wanted *a new jacket for so long now.  I just can´t find the right one.
I have *been wanting *a new jacket for so long now.
_These sentences say the same thing._

You will use the past perfect for a completed action.

I *had wanted *to visit Spain for years and finally I got to go last year.


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## mhp

Aidasp said:


> Hello,
> 
> Could you explain me the difference between this two questions?
> (1) How long have you studied English?
> (2) How long have been studing English?
> It is the difference between present perfect and present perfect continous. I've never known when I can use it.
> 
> Thanks a lot





jacinta said:


> There is not much difference between the two.  They mean practically the same thing.



I agree with jacinta. 

Same difference between
 (1) ¿Cuánto tiempo hace que estudias inglés?
  (2) ¿Cuánto tiempo llevas estudiando inglés?

Very little, if any.


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## guixols

"I´m sorry to disagree with you but the present perfect is not used for a completed action."

So how would you explain the following:

"I've written to her three times. She never answers, so I'm going to stop wasting my time."

Or:

"I've been to St. Louis once, and that was enough for me."

The actions referred to are past actions completed.


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## geostan

jacinta said:


> I´m sorry to disagree with you but the present perfect is not used for a completed action.  It is just the opposite.  It is used for an action that is not completed:
> 
> I *have wanted *a new jacket for so long now.  I just can´t find the right one.
> I have *been wanting *a new jacket for so long now.
> _These sentences say the same thing._
> 
> You will use the past perfect for a completed action.
> 
> I *had wanted *to visit Spain for years and finally I got to go last year.



Not quite. The present perfect may be used for a completed action.

I have seen them three times this morning. The difference between this and I saw them three times this morning is that in the first instance it's still morning, but in both cases the actions are completed.

There is a discussion in the French-English forum that is going on right now that discusses this problem.


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## jacinta

I *have* written to her three times.

That includes right now.  I just wrote to her.  I´m talking about a problem I have today.  If I don´t hear from her, I´m *going to *stop writing.  This incident is on-going.

I *had* written to her three times.  
This happened last year.  She never wrote back so I stopped writing to her.  All in the past.  A finished incident.


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## geostan

jacinta said:


> I *have* written to her three times.
> 
> That includes right now.  I just wrote to her.  I´m talking about a problem I have today.  If I don´t hear from her, I´m *going to *stop writing.  This incident is on-going.
> 
> I *had* written to her three times.
> This happened last year.  She never wrote back so I stopped writing to her.  All in the past.  A finished incident.



No,no!

You're confusing the action of writing with the intention of continuing to write.
I have written to her three times. The three times are over. You may continue to write, but that is not implied in the statement.

Your second example would be: I wrote to her three times. The past perfect tense is completely unnecessary. It is used to indicate a past action prior to another past action, as in:

I told him that I had written to her three times the previous year.


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## jacinta

I´m not confusing anything.  I am simply saying that when you use the present perfect,  you are referring to the present day, regardless of whether or not you have completed the action.  
Does this make sense?  That´s why it is called the *present* perfect.

I have written her.  As of today, I have written her.


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## geostan

jacinta said:


> I´m not confusing anything.  I am simply saying that when you use the present perfect,  you are referring to the present day, regardless of whether or not you have completed the action.
> Does this make sense?  That´s why it is called the *present* perfect.
> 
> I have written her.  As of today, I have written her.




"I´m sorry to disagree with you but the present perfect is not used for a completed action. It is just the opposite. It is used for an action that is not completed:"

The above is what you said in #4. Now you are saying that the action may or may not have been completed.

Which is it?

I know that the resultant state is in the present, but that is not the issue.


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## jacinta

Okay, you´ve made me work!!   

Here is the textbook explanation of the present perfect and past perfect tenses.  You´re right in that I said the action is not completed.  I´m not going to try to explain myself but will use the book instead:

"The present perfect tense expresses time subsequent to that of the past tense and *continuing to the present period of time, when it is completed. * The present perfect tense, which is sometimes called the perfect, indicates that the *action is complete *(perfect) *at the time represented-- the time of speaking (present)."*

"The past perfect tense, which is also called the pluperfect, indicates that the action was completed at some time in the past.  It is formed by the use of the auxiliary verb _had_ (past), to which the past participle of the main verb is added.  
The past perfect tense is a secondary tense in which the past time that is represented has been completed as of some past time."

Exerpted from "The Writer´s Manual" by Archibald C. Jordan.  (I don´t like this book but it´s all I have at the moment!!)


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## geostan

jacinta said:


> Okay, you´ve made me work!!
> 
> Here is the textbook explanation of the present perfect and past perfect tenses.  You´re right in that I said the action is not completed.  I´m not going to try to explain myself but will use the book instead:
> 
> "The present perfect tense expresses time subsequent to that of the past tense and *continuing to the present period of time, when it is completed. * The present perfect tense, which is sometimes called the perfect, indicates that the *action is complete *(perfect) *at the time represented-- the time of speaking (present)."*
> 
> "The past perfect tense, which is also called the pluperfect, indicates that the action was completed at some time in the past.  It is formed by the use of the auxiliary verb _had_ (past), to which the past participle of the main verb is added.
> The past perfect tense is a secondary tense in which the past time that is represented has been completed as of some past time."
> 
> Exerpted from "The Writer´s Manual" by Archibald C. Jordan.  (I don´t like this book but it´s all I have at the moment!!)



I don't care for his explanation. He makes no distinction between the present perfect and the present perfect progressive or continuous. And his definition  could suit the simple past as well. 

When you say "I did something" you are speaking in the present about something that has been completed. 

If you type in "present perfect continuous" in Google, you'll come up with a number of sites that explain this tense. While they aren't perfect, the explanations are clearer than Mr. Jordan's.


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## Crescent

Oh, my....
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause such a... discussion between the two of you. 
To be honest, I had no idea until now that the present perfect tense is what we call simply the perfect tense, and the past perfect is the pluperfect... 

But now that I know that, I can give in my 2 cents by saying that my spanish teacher always taught us that the perfect tense (the one formed by haber as the auxiliary and the past participle) is always used to describe actions which have been _completed_. And the pluperfect - is one step back from that. So actions which occured even further in the past. 
I'm sorry, but I still don't see how what I've said is wrong... Perhaps, it's a little lack of understanding from my side... But that's the way they teach us over here, honest!


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## jacinta

geostan said:


> I don't care for his explanation. *He makes no distinction between the present perfect and the present perfect progressive *or continuous. And his definition  could suit the simple past as well.
> 
> If you type in "present perfect continuous" in Google, you'll come up with a number of sites that explain this tense. While they aren't perfect, the explanations are clearer than Mr. Jordan's.



Well, actually he does but I´m not taking this any further.  I could include his explanation of present continuous, but that is a separate tense and we weren´t talking about that.  We were only discussing the present and past perfect tenses.


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## jacinta

Crescent said:


> Oh, my....
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause such a... discussion between the two of you.
> To be honest, I had no idea until now that the present perfect tense is what we call simply the perfect tense, and the past perfect is the pluperfect...



Don´t worry about it, Crescent!  This is only a discussion, nothing more.  I love a good discussion!


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## mhp

Crescent said:


> Oh, my....
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause such a... discussion between the two of you.
> To be honest, I had no idea until now that the present perfect tense is what we call simply the perfect tense, and the past perfect is the pluperfect...
> 
> But now that I know that, I can give in my 2 cents by saying that my spanish teacher always taught us that the perfect tense (the one formed by haber as the auxiliary and the past participle) is always used to describe actions which have been _completed_. And the pluperfect - is one step back from that. So actions which occured even further in the past.
> I'm sorry, but I still don't see how what I've said is wrong... Perhaps, it's a little lack of understanding from my side... But that's the way they teach us over here, honest!


  I’m sorry that I have not read all the previous discussion with due attention. Obviously present perfect and present perfect continuous addressed in the original question are two different tenses, but in the sentences given I really don’t see much of a difference. You can ask either one without being misunderstood and you’ll get identical replies. At least, that’s what I think. If I’m mistaken, I wish to be corrected.


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## jacinta

Yes, let´s leave it at that.  We´ve gotten way off track.


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## Crescent

No, nope... I do not think you are in the least mistaken. I, at the very least, totally and completely agree with what you've said. 
Just incidently: what does perfect continious look like in Spanish? Can someone give me a little example please? Because I really can't imagine it...
If I had to take a blind guess, I'd dip our wonderful auxiliary 'estar' into the present and tie a past pariticple on the end. So... ''estoy trabajado''
But to me, that just sounds like ''I am hard-working'' (even thought that would be ''trabajadora'' ...
I've heard of the imperfect continious which is quite common in Spanish... but never of the perfect continious, I must say...


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## mhp

There is no such thing as a continuous tense in Spanish. The idea of a continuous tense is conveyed by verbal periphrasis. 

  Estar + gerundio
  Llevar + gerundio
  Ir + gerundio
  Seguir + gerundio
  etc.


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## Crescent

mhp said:


> There is no such thing as a continuous tense in Spanish. The idea of a continuous tense is conveyed by verbal periphrasis.
> 
> Estar + gerundio
> Llevar + gerundio
> Ir + gerundio
> Seguir + gerundio
> etc.



Okay...now I'm thoroughly confused!!!!
... I don't get it: what do you call the imperfect continious and the present continious then??
Of course the continious exists in Spanish.... doesn't it...?
I knew of the estar + gerund one, of course...
But what about all the others?? How do they work? and what do they mean?
How could I convey a meaning with ir+gerund?


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## geostan

mhp said:


> There is no such thing as a continuous tense in Spanish. The idea of a continuous tense is conveyed by verbal periphrasis.
> 
> Estar + gerundio
> Llevar + gerundio
> Ir + gerundio
> Seguir + gerundio
> etc.



Just as in English:

to be + present participle


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## guixols

- We use the Present Perfect to say that an action happened at an unspecified time before now. The exact time is not important.
 
“I have written to her three times...”
 
(But: “I wrote her three times last month.”)
 
- You can use the Present Perfect to describe your experience. It is like saying, "I have the experience of..."
 
“I have been to St. Louis once…”
 
- We often use the Present Perfect to talk about change that has happened over a period of time.
 
“You’ve lost weight since I last saw you.”
 
- We often use the Present Perfect to list the accomplishments of individuals and humanity. You cannot mention a specific time.
 
“Scientists have cloned animals.”
 
- We often use the Present Perfect to say that an action which we expected has not happened. Using the Present Perfect suggests that we are still waiting for the action.
 
“He hasn’t called me in a week.”
 
- We also use the Present Perfect to talk about several different actions which occurred in the past at different times. Present Perfect suggests the process is not complete and more actions are possible.
 
“I have studied three foreign languages over the last two years.”
 
(Explanations courtesy of The English Page)

As for Spanish, they use haber, not estar. "He/has/ha/hemos/habéis/han trabajado."


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## mhp

Crescent said:


> Okay...now I'm thoroughly confused!!!!
> ... I don't get it: what do you call the imperfect continious and the present continious then??
> Of course the continious exists in Spanish.... doesn't it...?
> I knew of the estar + gerund one, of course...
> But what about all the others?? How do they work? and what do they mean?
> How could I convey a meaning with ir+gerund?



 Yes the idea of continues does exist in Spanish, but grammatically it is not considered a tense. There are many other verbal periphrases aside from the ones I listed that convey this idea.

  A few more: andar + gerundio, continuar + gerundio, venir + gerundio, etc.

  Unfortunately I can't list all uses, because each one has a secondary meaning aside from simple progressive. I recommend a good grammar book for this.

  Here are a few examples with IR

  Va introduciéndose en ese ambiente sin que se den cuenta los demás
  Nos iban dando a cada uno...


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## jacinta

Estaba preparando la cena.  Past (imperfect) continuous (or progressive)
Está preparando la cena.  Present continuous (progressive) 

Ha estado preparando la cena. Present perfect continuous
Había estado preparando la cena.  Past "          "


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## Crescent

Jacinta - thank you very much, I understand a little better now!  Yes, the perfect continous does make much more sense now!  It can even be translated into enlgish literally! He estado cocinando = I have been cooking
Has estado trabajando todo el tiempo que he estado cocinando?   (I love languages!!!) 
Mph - thank you to you too, for your explanations... but I'm afraid I don't understand them.   (sorry) I don't understand what 'Va introduciéndose en ese ambiente sin que se den cuenta los demás' means at all... It vaguely reminded me of the future tense - ir+a+the infinitive, but of course that's got nothign to do with it..
Could you translate them into English for me , please?


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## mhp

Crescent said:


> Jacinta - thank you very much, I understand a little better now!  Yes, the perfect continous does make much more sense now!  It can even be translated into enlgish literally! He estado cocinando = I have been cooking
> Has estado trabajando todo el tiempo que he estado cocinando?   (I love languages!!!)
> Mph - thank you to you too, for your explanations... but I'm afraid I don't understand them.   (sorry) I don't understand what 'Va introduciéndose en ese ambiente sin que se den cuenta los demás' means at all... It vaguely reminded me of the future tense - ir+a+the infinitive, but of course that's got nothign to do with it..
> Could you translate them into English for me , please?


  Yes you are getting the idea perfectly. As much as IR+A+infinitivo is not a future tense Estar/IR+gerundio is not a continuous tense. They are all verbal paraphrases among 150 or so others in Spanish. As for translating, that’s a whole different story. I’ll play it safe and give you some examples from my Oxford dictionary 

  you could start peeling the onions
      tú puedes ir pelando las cebollas

  as I was saying
      como te iba diciendo 

  the situation has been getting worse and worse
   la situación ha ido empeorando 

 Not everyone would agree with these translations, but I can say that I didn’t do it. Instead of trying to find parallel between the uses of tenses in two different languages, it is better to do a freeform translation to convey the same idea.


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## Autumnsea

I'm not so sure what present perfect continuous looks like in Spanish. But from the perspective of a Chinese, I think the two express the same thing but esphasize different aspects.

'I've drank 3 cups of tea'.

'I've been drinking 3 cups of tea' sounds a little weird to me.
'I've been drinking 3 cups a day for 1 year' sounds natural.

As I can see, one stresses the result, one stresses the process.
Isn't it?
Hope I make some sense


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## geostan

Autumnsea said:


> I'm not so sure what present perfect continuous looks like in Spanish. But from the perspective of a Chinese, I think the two express the same thing but esphasize different aspects.
> 
> 'I've drank 3 cups of tea'.
> 
> 'I've been drinking 3 cups of tea' sounds a little weird to me.
> 'I've been drinking 3 cups a day for 1 year' sounds natural.
> 
> As I can see, one stresses the result, one stresses the process.
> Isn't it?
> Hope I make some sense



"I've been drinking 3 cups of tea." is not correct. 
"I've drunk (not drank) 3 cups pf tea.

"Drank" is often used incorrectly as a past participle, probably because of its
similarity to the adjective meaning "intoxicated."


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