# EN: Who was it (who) won the silver salver?



## yael dans l'herbe

hello who is reading me .
  in this sentence:
"Craster won the pig, but who was it won the silver salver ?"
  i expected "who was it who won the ..." . i feel something
is missing thoug i don't know .
  thank you for your answer .
 
                  yael


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## Thomas1

Hi,

The sentence is missing a relative ponoun who or that. However, may be it was done on purpose by the author, could you please provide some context, source and a sentence before and after the one you gave?


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## yael dans l'herbe

it's in "the years" by W. Woolf .there has been a fête or  
a bazaar in the garden before . may be it's just a misprint that's all . cheap edition you know .
 
                      yael


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## geostan

You can hear this version, but I would personally put in a relative ponoun.

who was it won the silver salver ? (very informal)

Who was it who won the silver salver?


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## yael dans l'herbe

so it's allright but very informal .that doesnt look like
W. Woolf way of writting although she might be mischievous 
sometimes .


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## johnblacksox

I think it should be, "Who was it who won the silver salver..."

Or, simpler, "Who won the silver salver..."

(By the way, in US English, we don't use "salver", I'm not even sure what it is, but I would guess a cup or vase of some sort.)


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## LV4-26

yael des bois said:


> so it's allright but very informal .that doesnt look like
> W. Woolf way of writting although she might be mischievous
> sometimes .


Yes. Normally, only the *object* relative pronoun can be omitted.
However, it sometimes happens that the *subject* pronoun is. 
Of course it is considered very informal and even incorrect.

And it's more frequent in sentences like the one you're quoting, i.e. _Who was it did this or that?_.
It's also worth noting that this specific structure "_who was it who won"_ is already pretty informal. In a more formal register, the author would have written "_but who won the silver salver_", as johnblacksox said.


.....I think.

So yes, the way I see it, W. Woolf is clearly pretending to sound informal here.


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## quinoa

Un autre exemple, Ed McBain, _Tricks :_
"Last October, I shot two people came in the store to rob me."

On peut le trouver après des constructions existentielles, du type "there is, There was" : There was a chap came yesterday." Ou encore "It was, It is" : It was Fred gave Susan a scarf". 
Exemples tirés de _Grammaire anglaise_, Paul Larreya, Claude Rivière


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## LV4-26

quinoa said:


> Un autre exemple, Ed McBain, _Tricks :_
> "Last October, I shot two people came in the store to rob me."
> 
> On peut le trouver après des constructions existentielles, du type "there is, There was" : There was a chap came yesterday." Ou encore "It was, It is" : It was Fred gave Susan a scarf".
> Exemples tirés de _Grammaire anglaise_, Paul Larreya, Claude Rivière


_But of all these friends and lovers
There is no one compares with you_
(_In my life _ - John Lennon)

The following one I borrowed from Panjandrum here ==>
_There's a guy works down the chipshop swears he's Elvis._


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## WordRef1

It is informal, but moreover, it's regional. No one from Northern California, for example, would ever say that. Il faut toujours le 'who' ici. Par exemple, je ne dirais jamais _There's a guy works down the chipshop swears he's Elvis._ Plutôt_, There's a guy who works down at the chipshop (?) who swears he's Elvis.
_


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## johnblacksox

WordRef1 said:


> It is informal, but moreover, it's regional. No one from Northern California, for example, would ever say that. Il faut toujours le 'who' ici. Par exemple, je ne dirais jamais _There's a guy works down the chipshop swears he's Elvis._ Plutôt_, There's a guy who works down at the chipshop (?) who swears he's Elvis._


 
I agree...I never hear that construction in US English.


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## yael dans l'herbe

Thank you all for your answers . You've been quite complete
about the subject .
   See you some other times .
 
                  Yael


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## CapnPrep

See also the following thread in English Only:
*[grammar question] It's James did that*


LV4-26 said:


> Normally, only the *object* relative pronoun can be omitted.
> However, it sometimes happens that the *subject* pronoun is.
> Of course it is considered very informal and even incorrect.


This is true for simple clauses, but if the pronoun originates in an embedded clause, then both subject and object pronouns can be omitted:_Who was it *that/who* _[_Harry said ___ won the silver salver_]_?_
_Who was it _[_Harry said ___ won the silver salver_]_?_​See this post by Loob in English Only, for example.


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## yael dans l'herbe

I've noticed english language get on well with ellipses .In
french it might be a complete mess .


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