# Police is/are?



## Blixa

Hi Everybody!!

If I want to say in English "La policia esta allá afuera", what's the correct sentence:

- Police is outside
- Police are outside

Thanks in advance!!


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## alexacohen

The police are outside.
A policeman is outside.



> From the Diccionario Espasa Concise © 2000 Espasa Calpe:
> *police*
> I _sustantivo plural_ policía


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## Blixa

Gracias


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## skatty

Para mí sería:

The police is outside.
The policeman is out side.
The policemen are outside.


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## MHCKA

Concuerdo con skatty.

Policía es un _sustantivo (nombre) colectivo_, que según el Diccionario de la RAE se define así:

*~** colectivo.*
*1. *m._ Gram._ El que en *singular* expresa un conjunto homogéneo de cosas, animales o personas; p. ej., _cubertería,_ _ejército,_ _enjambre._


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## Philippa

Hola:
'The police are outside' me suena correcta y 'The police is outside' no. No puedo explicar porqué - lo siento. Para mí cuando oigo 'The police are outside' imagino que hay al menos dos personas y un coche. Incluso si hubiera solamente una persona por alguna razón todavía imagino toda la gente en la policía - la organización.
Pero: cubertería - The cutlery is outside; ejército - The army is outside; enjambre - The swarm is outside. 
Saludos
Philippa 
The police is/the police are... 
Police


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## djweaverbeaver

Salutations,

Actually, I consider both to be correct depending on how you view the police, though the most common (possibly, correct) usage is with the plural.  It depends on if you are viewing them as a singly functioning unit/entity or as member of this peace-keeping force.  However, the are cases were the singular sounds better to my American ears. For example:
"The police *was *called in to handle the situation." (here were seems awkward)
"The police *is *outside." (though, are sounds okay, too)

There are many cases where either would work:

"The police *has/have been* investigating the suspects for some time now."
"The police *is/are looking* for the fugitive."

I don't know if there are any other Americans who agree, but I believe there would be little protest from most people, except for possibly language prescriptivists.  Usually, for many collective nouns the dispute is British (which tends to prefer the plural, who can emphasize people that make up the collective) vs. American (which tends to prefer the singular, emphasizing a single entity).

Examples:
In _Happy Potter_,
1. BrE version: "Gryffindor *have *the quaffle."
AmE version: "The Gryffindors *have *the quaffle."  ("Gryffindor *has *the quaffle" is perfectly fine in American English, too.)

2. BrE: "The team *are *fighting among themselves."
AmE:  "The team *is *fighting among itself."  (Though we'd probably be more apt to say "The teammates are...)

3.  BrE: The government *have *not announced a new policy.
AmE:  The government *has *not announced a new policy.

4. BrE: The enemy *were *showing up in groups of three or four to turn in their weapons.
AmE: The enemy *was *showing up in groups of three or four to turn in its /their weapons.

5. BrE:  Germany *have *finally won the competition.
AmE:  Germany *has *finally won the competition. 
Note:  These examples are from reputable English usage guides.  I would have included a hyperlink but am not allowed to do because I have not yet made more than 30 posts.  You can find them, however, by doing a Google search.

I hope I've been able to somewhat help you. ( Yes, I'm aware of the split infinitive!)  Take care!


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## Blixa

Gracias a todos! todos los dias aprendo más sobre plurales y singulares, son dificiles para mi


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## baz259

The police are outside
There’s a policeman outside 
Barry


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## Conejillo

MHCKA said:


> Concuerdo con skatty.
> 
> Policía es un _sustantivo (nombre) colectivo_, que según el Diccionario de la RAE se define así:
> 
> *~** colectivo.*
> *1. *m._ Gram._ El que en *singular* expresa un conjunto homogéneo de cosas, animales o personas; p. ej., _cubertería,_ _ejército,_ _enjambre._


 

Pero en inglés, es sustantivo plural y se dice "the police *are* outside".

For a reference, check this link.


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## LaReinita

The police is outside, sounds terrible to me.

It sounds like ebonics.


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## djweaverbeaver

LaReinita,

Of all the things you could have said it sounded like, it find it...interesting that you'd refer to ebonics.  Anyway, I believe depends on what you're trying to emphasize.  I think both are possible in the "the police is/are outside", depending on if you're thinking of them as an entity and individuals within the entity.  I, personally, would say the _is _rather than _are _in this situation.


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## Conejillo

djweaverbeaver said:


> LaReinita,
> 
> Of all the things you could have said it sounded like, it find it...interesting that you'd refer to ebonics. Anyway, I believe depends on what you're trying to emphasize. I think both are possible in the "the police is/are outside", depending on if you're thinking of them as an entity and individuals within the entity. I, personally, would say the _is _rather than _are _in this situation.


 

I'm sorry, but I disagree!

"The police is outside." Is gramatically incorrect.


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## mhp

At least in American English, it is a question of what pronoun you use to refer to the police. As a force, or a branch of government, it is usually referred to as ‘it’. As a group of officers it is usually referred to as ‘they’. 

  The usage may be different in British English.


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## djweaverbeaver

Sorry Conejillo,

But I agree with mhp on this one.  "The police is outside" is perfectly fine with me.  I think we should agree to disagree (sorry for the cliché).


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## Conejillo

It appears that this has been dicussed before :

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=42383

In that thread, in entry #13, jacinta wrote: 

"According to the _American Heritage Dictionary_, *police* is a plural noun.
In _American English_, it is considered wrong to use it in the singular form. Because "police" is considered a body of *people*, the plural form of the verb is used."


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## mhp

Here is the Merriam-Webster entry:
3 a : POLICE FORCE  b plural   : POLICE OFFICERS

The American Heritage says:
2 a. The governmental department charged with the ...
b. The official civil force, or body of persons, ...
c. (used with a pl. verb) The members of such force; police officers.


---
The police are outside. (*They *are outside)
For me it doesn’t make sense to use a singular verb here. What is outside are the police officers, not the police force as an organization.

But: 
The police  is viewed as a "control agency of last resort" made obligatory by ... [*It *is viewed as ...]
[George K. Danns, Domination and Power in Guyana: A Study of the Police in a Third World Context]


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## MHCKA

Coincido con mhp y djweaverbeaver... policía como fuerza, como entidad del gobierno se refiere a algo colectivo... policía como agente de la fuerza policial, se refiere a una persona.

Habrá que contextualizar correctamente cada oración para un uso adecuado.

Saludos.


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## iskndarbey

I'm American and I've never heard anyone use a singular verb with the word 'police' while speaking standard English. If anyone said 'The police is outside' I would suspect they were not a native speaker.

(By the way, LaReinita, in most dialects of Ebonics, the correct sentence would be 'The police outside', without a verb. If you said 'The police is outside', or 'The police be outside', that would mean they're habitually outside, like if you live right next door to a police station or something.)


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## djweaverbeaver

First of all,  I am a native English speaker.  Secondly,  I think it is pretty clear that we I say "the police is outside" that no one would think I meant the entire police force as an organization.  It's clear that I mean a certain number of them, but I still see them as one force.   I've asked many people, and they agree with me in saying that both are okay.  I just happen to prefer the singular in this case as something I'd say spontaneously.


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## mhp

All this reminds me of the movie Independence Day. There is a point where an announcer says: “Once again, the LAPD is asking Los Angelenos not to fire their guns at the visitor spacecraft. You may inadvertently trigger an interstellar war.” 

But, if in the same sentence you replace LAPD with “the police”, I think most people would use a plural verb because the subject  is an anonymous “they”.


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## Oschito

Agreed, mhp. As a specific, single organization, LAPD is perfectly reasonable as singular. But when they become a relatively undefined conglomerate of people who wear badges and carry guns, I would always, always use the plural. 

While I can accept that prescriptively "police" could function as a singular noun, I have rarely, if ever, heard this used in common speech, nor would I ever use it myself. Perhaps just a personal preference?


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## Bennyboy5462

I don't believe it is incorrect to say "the police is." It depends on whether you are referring to the police force or the police officers.


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## Tim~!

Bennyboy5462 said:


> I don't believe it is incorrect to say "the police is." It depends on whether you are referring to the police force or the police officers.



I'm not sure.  Even when referring to the force, I can see people using only plural forms if the word 'police' is used.  Change that word to 'force', 'police force', 'LAPD', or 'Leicestershire Constabulary', however, and people soon find it natural to say "X is".  I think it's just the case that we've learnt to always follow the word 'police' with a plural verb form and not to do so sets the 'wrong bell' ringing.

Conversely, we have no trouble at all following the similar word 'army' with a singular form.


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## MHCKA

Hi everybody!

I invite to the people (all the persons) to see this links:

Some rules to nouns
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/plurals.htm
Another epic conversation
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=42383

I quote again a dictionary, the Merriam-Webster (too much text, but necessary):
*police* 
Function: _noun_ Inflected Form(s): _plural_ police Usage: _often attributive_ Etymology: French, from Old French, from Late Latin _politia_ government, administration, from Greek _politeia,_ from _politēs_ citizen, from _polis_ city, state; akin to Sanskrit _pur_ rampart, Lithuanian _pilis_ castle Date: 1716 
*1 a: the internal organization or regulation of a political unit through exercise of governmental powers especially with respect to general comfort, health, morals, safety, or prosperity* b*:* control and regulation of affairs affecting the general order and welfare of any unit or area c*:* the system of laws for effecting such control
2 a*:* the department of government concerned primarily with maintenance of public order, safety, and health and enforcement of laws and possessing executive, judicial, and legislative powers b*:* the department of government charged with prevention, detection, and prosecution of public nuisances and crimes
*3 a: police force bplural : police officers*
4 a*:* a private organization resembling a police force <campus _police_> b_plural_ *:* the members of a private police organization
5 a*:* the action or process of cleaning and putting in order b*:* military personnel detailed to perform this function
6*:* one attempting to regulate or censor a specified field or activity <the fashion _police_>

I think is remarkable the third sense of the word. I compare police with another noun:

*policeman*
1 *:* a member of a police force 

Really I think there aren´t controversy. Backing to the original Blixa's post, Skatty says and I agree:

The police is outside.
The policeman is outside.
The policemen are outside.


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## JB

MHCKA said:


> *policeman*
> 1 *:* a member of a police force
> 
> Really I think there aren´t isn't any controversy.



In "a police force", the noun usage is "a force".  The word "police" functions as an adjective.  You could also say "a police car", "a police presence", etc.  I have never heard "a police" in standard American usage used to refer to an individual police officer or body.


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## JB

djweaverbeaver said:


> "The police *is *outside." (though, are sounds okay, too)
> There are many cases where either would work:
> "The police *has/have been* investigating the suspects for some time now."
> "The police *is/are looking* for the fugitive."



There are no absolute fixed laws in language.  Nevertheless, if you are looking for what is considered "standard American" or "general American" usage, the "correct" accepted is "the polilce are."

As to "the police is" or "the police has", (no offense intended) this may sound OK in some regions of the American South (where "we was" is also common"), but I would suggest avoiding it in any formal written or spoken communication.  Outside of this regional usage (which may be a perfect choice if you are writing dialogue for a play or story set in a Southern state), I believe it will be seen as incorrect by most English-speaking people (in the U.S. or elsewhere).

As to British English vs. AE, British has many more collective nouns than English, but not vice versa.  They do say "the government are," "the jury are", etc. as these are seen as collective plurals, and I notice a trend in U.S. newscasts to treat more singular nouns as collective plurals, so we may be moving in that direction.  But to take a collective "the police are" and make it "the police is" would be moving in the opposite direction.

One more note:  It may be that some day in AE all conjugations of "to be" will disappear (as they have from other verbs, with the sole exception of 3rd Person singular - I eat, We eat, You eat, They eat, He eatS).  Some day we may all say "I is, we is, you is, they is, he is".  So I am not making a judgement, just telling you what is currently considered "standard".


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## MHCKA

Sorry, for my error.

jbruiceismay: "a police" sounds odd, I agree. 
People/persons often says "*cop*", "*officer*"... not "*policeman*". Maybe this is the origin for the first disagree in this conversation, the usage versus the grammar possibility. 

I quote a Dictionary, as the rules (the police) of the forum.

In the M-WD police is a noun. 

I quote again, and again:

*police force*
Function: 
*noun *Date: 1838 *:* a body of trained officers entrusted by a government with maintenance of public peace and order, enforcement of laws, and prevention and detection of crime.

Another examples:
*police dog* 
Function: *noun *Date: 1908 1 *:* a dog trained to assist police (as in drug detection) 2 *:* german shepherd 


*police officer* 
Function: 
_*noun*_ Date: 1797 *:* a member of a police force 

Maybe the grammar have troubles with the dictionary, 'cos in the real life the language is dynamic. This happens too with the use of "mexicanismos" versus DRAE.


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## iskndarbey

In those examples, MHCKA, 'police' is acting as an adjective. 'Force', 'dog' and 'officer' are the nouns. In English, just about any noun, with very few if any exceptions, can be used as an adjective in this manner. I concur with the consensus above that 'a police' is an exceedingly strange construction which I've never heard.


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## JB

iskn. . . is correct
Here is one difference between English and Spanish.  You cannot say in Spanish "carro chaqueta", "puerta tapiz", "casa pintura", or "hilo cesta".  

In English, however, it is common to add an adjective in front of a noun, and produce terms such as "car coat", "doormat", "house paint"  or "rubber basket".  These terms in Spanish usually require "de", "por" or "para" to link them (or there exists a different term entirely).  

Once a term has become common (like car coat, baby buggy, doormat and thousands of others) the entire term can be viewed as a compound noun.  If it used commonly enough, we end up spelling it as a single word (e.g., doormat, policeman).  

You could add to your list
police investigation
police investigator
police matter (asunto para, o de, la policía)
police car
police station 
police uniform (plural, los uniformes de la policía)
police academy
police policy (política de la policía)
police patrol
police lieutenant
police dog, or policedog, policeman, policewoman (single words)
police riot (un término inventado después de una investigación de algo que pasó in Chicago, IL, EEUU en los 1960)

and so on.

A dictionary might list these "phrases" as nouns, but in each case, the "police" portion serves as an adjective modifying the type of school, car, uniform, etc.


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## Blixa

jbruceismay said:


> There are no absolute fixed laws in language. Nevertheless, if you are looking for what is considered "standard American" or "general American" usage, the "correct" accepted is "the polilce are."
> 
> As to "the police is" or "the police has", (no offense intended) this may sound OK in some regions of the American South (where "we was" is also common"), but I would suggest avoiding it in any formal written or spoken communication. Outside of this regional usage (which may be a perfect choice if you are writing dialogue for a play or story set in a Southern state), I believe it will be seen as incorrect by most English-speaking people (in the U.S. or elsewhere).
> 
> *As to British English vs. AE, British has many more collective nouns than English, but not vice versa. They do say "the government are," "the jury are", etc. as these are seen as collective plurals, and I notice a trend in U.S. newscasts to treat more singular nouns as collective plurals, so we may be moving in that direction. But to take a collective "the police are" and make it "the police is" would be moving in the opposite direction.*
> 
> One more note: It may be that some day in AE all conjugations of "to be" will disappear (as they have from other verbs, with the sole exception of 3rd Person singular - I eat, We eat, You eat, They eat, He eatS). Some day we may all say "I is, we is, you is, they is, he is". So I am not making a judgement, just telling you what is currently considered "standard".


 

Yep, my doubt was about if "Police" is a collective plural, like government or a rock band 

So, If I got it right, nowadays, the correct way to say it is:

"The Police are outside"

Gracias!


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