# Catalan accent



## avok

Helloo,

Do Catalans in Spain speak Spanish with a distinctive accent? 

cheers


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## jmx

It depends on how competent they are in the language. Typically, catalans from rural areas who only speak in Spanish 2-3 times a month, have some accent. But urban catalans who speak it very often, hardly have any accent from the point of view of the rest of Spaniards.


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## brau

Native speakers of Catalan tend to have a distinctive accent when speaking Spanish. There are, of course, many grades. Generally, people from smaller and more isolated villages tend to have thicker accents, while people from bigger cities, where usually Spanish is also spoken, have a softer accent or none at all. It also depends on the person, obviously, and on the level of education, the situation, the personal ability to change accent etc. 

If my own experience helps, I myself come from a small village, but I received my education in a mixed itinerary, with half of the subjects in Spanish and the other half in Valencian Catalan, and when I went to University at age 18 people told me I had a slight accent, but now I've asked around and apparently I lost it completely. However, some of my friends received their education completely in Catalan (with the exception of the Spanish language subject) and have lived their whole lives in the town, so they have a thick and very distinctive accent when they have to speak Spanish. In my case, as soon as I started using Spanish on a daily basis my accent began to fade out. I have noticed that is a common trend. 

So the answer is, some do, some others don't, some others did but do no more.


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## Tige

I think this issue has been discussed in different threads. I could find this one, but I'm sure there are more...
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=327851&highlight=accents
(Sorry I don't know how to "hide" the whole www...!)


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## GEmma!!

I totally agree with Brau!


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## Dixie!

I agree with Brau, as always  I NEVER speak Spanish, and I am sure I must have a strong accent


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## avok

Hiiiiii

Thanks for the answers.
I wonder something else, if Dixie or any other Catalan speaker who has a thick accent, goes to Latin America, people over there would think that Dixie is a native Spanish speaker or they would say "she speaks Spanish very well but she is not Hispanic."


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## brau

avok said:


> Hiiiiii
> 
> Thanks for the answers.
> I wonder something else, if Dixie or any other Catalan speaker who has a thick accent, goes to Latin America, people over there would think that Dixie is a native Spanish speaker or they would say "she speaks Spanish very well but she is not Hispanic."


 
First of all, many people do not consider Spaniards to be Hispanic, leaving that definition for Latin Americans. And to answer your question, I honestly don't know to which extent the catalan accent is perceived as different from other European Spanish accents in Latin America, but in any case I highly doubt they would regard them as not being native speakers of Spanish, unless they were ridiculously bad at speaking Spanish (which I'm sure Dixie's not ).


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## ernest_

There's something I noticed from seeing Catalan politicians on the telly, and is that they often make mistakes with the final vowels when they speak Spanish, because there are many words that are very similar in Catalan and Spanish, but in Catalan they end with a consonant whereas in Spanish they have an extra vowel, so what they do, sometimes, is put the wrong vowel in there, for example an "e" when it's an "o", or the other way around. Or sometimes they get it right, but you can hear a hesitation for a split second if you listen careful enough.


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## brau

ernest_ said:


> There's something I noticed from seeing Catalan politicians on the telly, and is that they often make mistakes with the final vowels when they speak Spanish, because there are many words that are very similar in Catalan and Spanish, but in Catalan they end with a consonant whereas in Spanish they have an extra vowel, so what they do, sometimes, is put the wrong vowel in there, for example an "e" when it's an "o", or the other way around. Or sometimes they get it right, but you can hear a hesitation for a split second if you listen careful enough.


 
Interesting. Can you please give some examples? I haven't noticed anything like that.


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## ernest_

Not really, but I recommend that you listen to the MP in Madrid for Iniciativa per Catalunya-Els Verds (I don't remember his name) and I seem to recall that Artur Mas is a good candidate as well.


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## zazap

To add in my 2 cents, I find that Catalan speakers of Spanish do have a distinct accent, as do andalucians, and Canarians, and people from Madrid. To my knowledge, the accent from that region varies a lot from place to place and is influenced by the pronunciation of Catalan, but it doesn't make Catalans sound like they speak bad Spanish, it just makes them sound like they are from Catalonia!


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## avok

So can we consider "Catalan Spanish" as one of the varieties of the Spanish language? or a good Catalan Spanish should be identical to the standard Spanish in Spain.?


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## brau

avok said:


> So can we consider "Catalan Spanish" as one of the varieties of the Spanish language? or a good Catalan Spanish should be identical to the standard Spanish in Spain.?


 
The Spanish spoken as a native language in Catalan speaking areas of Spain might be the closest to Standard Spanish, but there are many non-standard features common to the Spanish of these areas (I'm not talking about people who have Catalan as their first mother tongue).


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## avok

My question may sound stupid but where do catalans learn Spanish? schools? Catalan kids pick up the accents of their Spanish speaking teachers? or the regional accent? I just find that interesting 

bye


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## brau

avok said:


> My question may sound stupid but where do catalans learn Spanish? schools? Catalan kids pick up the accents of their Spanish speaking teachers? or the regional accent? I just find that interesting
> 
> bye


 
Nothing stupid, no problem. 

Catalonia, the Balearic Islands and the Land of Valencia are autonomous communities of Spain. Native speakers of Catalan learn Spanish by watching TV (even in there is TV in catalan), at school (even if parents can choose to teach their children entirely in Catalan, except for the compulsory subject of Spanish), by speaking to Spanish speakers, by reading, etc. Teachers will most commonly speak in Catalan. Spanish is present in the lives of native speakers of Catalan since a very early age, even if there are grades also here. Basically, native speakers of Catalan learn Spanish because we are in Spain. That's why you can't consider us not native speakers of Spanish, and especially not native "listeners". 

Hope it helps, I didn't understand your question about the regional accent though. Feel free to keep asking.


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## Dixie!

avok said:


> My question may sound stupid but where do catalans learn Spanish? schools? Catalan kids pick up the accents of their Spanish speaking teachers? or the regional accent? I just find that interesting
> 
> bye



I learned Spanish basically by watching TV. I grew up in a 100% Catalan-speaking environment. I even remember, once when I was small, hearing two foreigners on the street speaking Spanish and saying: "Look, those people talk as if they were on TV!". So I associated the Spanish language with the language of television.

Well reading this thread another question just came to my mind: How about the people who dub movies? (I don't know if there's a specific word in English for them, like _dubbers_? It's not in the dictionary, anyway). I am sure you have noticed already, but mostly all of them are Catalan, which means that they can pronounce some English sounds that they do not exist in Spanish but they do exist in both Catalan and English. I wish I could type phonetic sounds now but anyway I think you get my point without examples. The standard Spanish used in dubbed movies comes from Catalans. Do they have a specific accent, as well?


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## Joannes

Dixie! said:


> Well reading this thread another question just came to my mind: How about the people who dub movies? (I don't know if there's a specific word in English for them, like _dubbers_? It's not in the dictionary, anyway). I am sure you have noticed already, but mostly all of them are Catalan, which means that they can pronounce some English sounds that they do not exist in Spanish but they do exist in both Catalan and English. I wish I could type phonetic sounds now but anyway I think you get my point without examples. The standard Spanish used in dubbed movies comes from Catalans. Do they have a specific accent, as well?


You're not going to blame Spanish TV for your Catalan accent, are you? 

This is very interesting! I had no idea most _dubbers_ were Catalan. Are they really consciously selected? And simply because of a better pronunciation of English sounds? There aren't that much more 'English' sounds in Catalan than in Spanish, or am I wrong? Still, isn't this advantage negligible, as those dubbers are supposed to speak _Spanish_, perhaps only with a few English names...

Anyway, without some specific purpose, I suppose people wouldn't hire speakers with a typical accent to do dubbing on Spanish TV, would they? So I suppose those speakers don't have one.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

That most dubbing is done over here in Catalonia may have something to do with the accent, but I think that, mainly, it has to do with the dubbing industry having its base in Barcelona. The same applies to translations: most publishers are in Barcelona and, before the Internet era, I would say that most translators, as a consequence, were Catalans.


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## jmx

avok said:


> So can we consider "Catalan Spanish" as one of the varieties of the Spanish language?


My answer is : categorically *no*. For example, the way Spanish is spoken by a Catalan speaker in a small village has little to do with the way it is spoken by a son of inmigrants in a working-class district in Barcelona. I think this applies to Valencia and the Balearic islands too.


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## avok

Dixie! said:


> I learned Spanish basically by watching TV. I grew up in a 100% Catalan-speaking environment. I even remember, once when I was small, hearing two foreigners on the street speaking Spanish and saying: "Look, those people talk as if they were on TV!". So I associated the Spanish language with the language of television.
> 
> Well reading this thread another question just came to my mind: How about the people who dub movies? (I don't know if there's a specific word in English for them, like _dubbers_? It's not in the dictionary, anyway). I am sure you have noticed already, but mostly all of them are Catalan, which means that they can pronounce some English sounds that they do not exist in Spanish but they do exist in both Catalan and English. I wish I could type phonetic sounds now but anyway I think you get my point without examples. The standard Spanish used in dubbed movies comes from Catalans. Do they have a specific accent, as well?


 
Hei, I have had no idea about the dubbing thing in Spain (that they were Catalan) here in Turkey, any one with good diction can be a dubber. Yes, I guess you talk about the letters "j" (dj or zh) and "sh" in Catalan which exist also in English (and in Turkish ) 

So I don't know if Catalan dubbers have a specific accent.



brau said:


> Spanish is present in the lives of native speakers of Catalan since a very early age, even if there are grades also here. Basically, native speakers of Catalan learn Spanish because we are in Spain.


 
That's pretty much the answer !! 



> I didn't understand your question about the regional accent though.


 
For instance, Catalans in Valencia speak the standard Spanish or the Spanish accent in Valencia (if there is any specific accent in Valencia).

In Valencia, everybody is Catalan ?


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## brau

avok said:


> For instance, Catalans in Valencia speak the standard Spanish or the Spanish accent in Valencia (if there is any specific accent in Valencia).


 
The Spanish spoken in the city of Valencia and other parts of the catalan-speaking areas is very close to Standard European Spanish, but there are still some particularities, in grammar, syntax, intonation and especially vocabulary. There are, obviously, many local variations throughout the Land. The city of Alicante and sorroundings has a marked different accent, with a bigger influence from more southern accents of Spanish.



avok said:


> In Valencia, everybody is Catalan ?


 
If your question is "is Catalan the historical language in the whole of the Land of Valencia?", the answer is no, there are some areas in the west and south that speak only Spanish, and always have.

If you meant your question literally, tell me and I'll send you a private message.


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## Amandla

I think I'm a bit strange... 

My Spanish accent is good because I'm a Spanish native speaker (my family come from Spain) but my Catalan accent is not really bad if you compare with other Spanish native speakers. When I speak the other people don't realize that my family is from Spain because I don't have "spanish accent" in Catalan. So, I don't have "catalan accent" when I speak Spanish...

However, my accent changes totally when I'm speaking with my family and it's even more similar to the accent of the South of Spain. 

It's really strange... 

(I hope I didn't really make big mistakes in English... :|)


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## polifemus

avok said:


> Hiiiiii
> 
> Thanks for the answers.
> I wonder something else, if Dixie or any other Catalan speaker who has a thick accent, goes to Latin America, people over there would think that Dixie is a native Spanish speaker or they would say "she speaks Spanish very well but she is not Hispanic."


 
Well, I´ve born and have lived in Uruguay my whole life so I can answer that question.

I do recongnize thick catalan accent right away. Mostly for the sound "L" that is much more similar to the english sound (as in "weLcome") than the spanish sound. The same happens with the galego, andaluz and canario accent, they are very different. But I think I wouldn´t recongnize any other autonomic community accents (nor vascos, extremeños, asturianos, etc.). Anyway, in each of this regions there are certain degrees in the accent, and if it is just a subtle accent it would be much harder for me to recognize it that for a sapaniard. I´m sure.

But that applies for me. I live in the River Plate wich is a region which cuture life is much more in touch with Spain´s than other regions of Latin America. And I like accents. I´m sure most people here wouldn´t tell which accent is from where, even though they can tell there are different accents. They would clasified them all as different accents of spanish not knowing which one is from where. For us there are not a regular spanish accent and variations of it. They all are at the same level.


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## polifemus

brau said:


> First of all, many people do not consider Spaniards to be Hispanic, leaving that definition for Latin Americans.


 

Please, if this answer is out of place be free to delete it.

The original sense of the word Hispanic was obviously referring to Spain and Spaniards. Then Americans begin to use it (as well as the word "latino") referring to latinamericans only. But that´s a huge mistake.

Is a big surprise for me to find out that Spaniards do not consider themselves to be Hispanic. Because neither do we. We always thought that you were the Hispanic. He, he...


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Aprofito aquest fil per preguntar a la gent que viu fora del nostre àmbit lingüístic si troben que *catalans*, *balears* i *valencians* tenim el mateix accent quan parlem en castellà. A mi sempre m'ha fet l'efecte que lleugerament sí. 

Les vegades que he escoltat gent de les illes i valencians (els que tenen el català com a primera llengua) parlar en castellà m'ha sonat molt semblant a com quan el parlem nosaltres. Fins i tot m'havia passat pel cap fer la prova quan sóc a Madrid i canviar-me el nom per Catalina o Empar i així fer una mica de treball de camp


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## brau

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Aprofito aquest fil per preguntar a la gent que viu fora del nostre àmbit lingüístic si troben que *catalans*, *balears* i *valencians* tenim el mateix accent quan parlem en castellà. A mi sempre m'ha fet l'efecte que lleugerament sí.
> 
> Les vegades que he escoltat gent de les illes i valencians (els que tenen el català com a primera llengua) parlar en castellà m'ha sonat molt semblant a com quan el parlem nosaltres. Fins i tot m'havia passat pel cap fer la prova quan sóc a Madrid i canviar-me el nom per Catalina o Empar i així fer una mica de treball de camp





Això m'ho he preguntat més d'una vegada jo també. Jo diria que hi ha xicotetes variacions, que són imperceptibles si no t'hi fixes molt, i tenen a veure sobretot amb el fet de què el català central té 3 vocals àtones i el valencià 5. És prou comú escoltar a la tele a Joan, forner del minúscul poble català de Vilaquisaponpara, pronunciar la "a" final de "hija" amb una "a" neutra (o schwa). Això no passarà als dialectes occidentals, almenys no al PV. A part, m'he fixat que la gent de les illes sol parlar més lentament i sense vocalitzar tant com els peninsulars, però això pot ser impressió meua. De tota manera, no crec que les contades diferències que hi poden haver puguen constituir diferents accents. I respecte a això de Madrid, fes-me cas, tots sonem igual. 

PS: Demanes l'opinió de gent de fora i el primer que contesta sóc jo... si és que si no et conteste a alguna pregunta durant el dia jo ja no sóc persona! 

polifemus, I'll send you a private message. I don't want problems with the law.


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## Antpax

Hola,

Estic d´accord amb brau, jo no soc capaç de distingir els accentes quan perleu en castellà, potser a algú de Valencia, pero no estaria segur del tot. Jo quan us sento, dic aquest (o aquesta) és de una zona on es parla el català (o valencià o mallorquí), i això jo que estic aprenent la vostra llengua, els altres dirien simplèment, aquest es català (o "polaco" ).

Salut.

Ant


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Antpax said:


> Hola,
> 
> Estic d´accord amb brau, jo no soc capaç de distingir els accentes quan perleu en castellà, potser a algú de Valencia, pero no estaria segur del tot. Jo quan us sento, dic aquest (o aquesta) és de una zona on es parla el català (o valencià o mallorquí), i això jo que estic aprenent la vostra llengua, els altres dirien simplèment, aquest es català (o "polaco" ).
> 
> Salut.
> 
> Ant


 
Això és el que jo m'imaginava. Gràcies, Ant, i bon dia tinguis


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## Antpax

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Això és el que jo m'imaginava. Gràcies, Ant, i bon dia tinguis


 
De res. Bon dia per a tú també. 

Salut.

Ant


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## pickypuck

Hola!

A mí la gent de Mallorca em sona molt més "suau" que els catalans que conec quan parlen castellà. Així que podria fer la distinció.

Bon vespre a tothom.


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## brau

pickypuck said:


> A mí la gent de Mallorca em sona molt més "suau" que els catalans que conec quan parlen castellà. Així que podria fer la distinció.



vaja, sembla ser que no era jo només.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

pickypuck said:


> Hola!
> 
> A mí la gent de Mallorca em sona molt més "suau" que els catalans que conec quan parlen castellà. Així que podria fer la distinció.
> 
> Bon vespre a tothom.


 
Bentornat o bentornada, Pickypuck! 

Què vols dir amb "suau"? Precisament a mi em fa l'efecte que quan els de les illes parlen en castellà tenen un accent català marcadíssim. Bé, és la meva impressió.

Pel que fa als valencians, en tinc menys idea: bé, he escoltat el castellà de Zaplana (que penso que es murcià o manxec), però suposo que el castellà de personatges com ara Miquel Gil, Feliu Ventura o Josep Piera poc té a veure amb el del "susodicho" .


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## pickypuck

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> Bentornat o bentornada, Pickypuck!
> 
> Què vols dir amb "suau"? Precisament a mi em fa l'efecte que quan els de les illes parlen en castellà tenen un accent català marcadíssim. Bé, és la meva impressió.


 
Quan dic suau no vull dir que el seu accent català sigui menys marcat (o estigui menys present) sinó a la manera de parlar castellà que tenen, que és molt més dolça. No sé explicar-ho millor a aquestes hores intempestives...  Però en brau em comprèn ^_^

I és bentornat... espera que ho confirmi... sí, sí, la meva roba interior es blava 

Bona nit traductora!


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## avok

polifemus said:


> Well, I´ve born and have lived in Uruguay my whole life so I can answer that question.
> 
> I do recongnize thick catalan accent right away. Mostly for the sound "L" that is much more similar to the english sound (as in "weLcome") than the spanish sound. The same happens with the galego, andaluz and canario accent, they are very different. But I think I wouldn´t recongnize any other autonomic community accents (nor vascos, extremeños, asturianos, etc.). Anyway, in each of this regions there are certain degrees in the accent, and if it is just a subtle accent it would be much harder for me to recognize it that for a sapaniard. I´m sure.
> 
> But that applies for me. I live in the River Plate wich is a region which cuture life is much more in touch with Spain´s than other regions of Latin America. And I like accents. I´m sure most people here wouldn´t tell which accent is from where, even though they can tell there are different accents. They would clasified them all as different accents of spanish not knowing which one is from where. For us there are not a regular spanish accent and variations of it. They all are at the same level.


 
hi polifemus, 

Ordinary Latin Americans (who are not like you ) see Catalans who have this different "l" still as "native speakers"?


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## TraductoraPobleSec

pickypuck said:


> Quan dic suau no vull dir que el seu accent català sigui menys marcat (o estigui menys present) sinó a la manera de parlar castellà que tenen, que és molt més dolça.


 
D'acord! Ara us entenc! La manera que tenen de parlar català també és molt més dolça, segons el meu entendre: deu ser això de menjar tantes ensaïmades!


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