# Slovene: je v postopku obravnaval



## Gavril

Dober večer,

A couple of terms here are not quite clear to me:



> Kot pravijo, to ponazarja tudi primer izpred nekaj dni, ko je mestni  redar v postopku obravnaval voznico avtotaksija zaradi kršitev odloka in  cestnoprometnih pravil ter pri tem posumil, da opravlja delo na črno.  Postopek so zato prevzeli na finančni upravi.



"According to them, this is illustrated by a case from a few days ago, when a City security officer in a proceeding[?] handled the case of[?] a  taxi diver involving violations of the ordinance and regulations  concerning street trafic, and in addition to this, suspected that she is  doing work on the sly[?]. The proceeding[?] was therefore continued in the financial department."

What exactly does _postopek _mean in this case, and what role do _redarji_ (security officers) normally have in it?

Hvala za vašo pomoč


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## iezik

Gavril said:


> According to them, this is illustrated by a case from a few days ago, when a City security officer in a proceeding[?] handled the case of[?] a  taxi diver involving violations of the ordinance and regulations  concerning street trafic, and in addition to this, suspected that she is  doing work on the sly[?]. The proceeding[?] was therefore continued in the financial department.
> 
> What exactly does _postopek _mean in this case, and what role do _redarji_ (security officers) normally have in it?



_postopek_ is proceeding (if my English is good enough) carried by an officer when s/he stops a car. _Mestni redarji_ are most known for checking the traffic within town-level roads (assigned to towns), mainly for speeding and incorrect parking.

_delo na črno_ is illicit work, the Slovene expression is probably a calque from German.


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## Gavril

iezik said:


> _postopek_ is proceeding (if my English is good enough) carried by an officer when s/he stops a car.



In English, I often see the phrase "routine procedure" in this type of context (_The security guard caught her while doing a routine procedure_), although I think the precise translation of this would be _običajen/rutinski postopek_.



> _Mestni redarji_ are most known for checking the traffic within town-level roads (assigned to towns), mainly for speeding and incorrect parking.



In that case, I'm not sure I understand the final sentence (_"postopek so prevzeli na finančni upravi_"). What exactly is "the finance division" in this context, and how did they continue the procedure (_postopek_) of the security officer?

Hvala še enkrat


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## M_L_P

The text you quoted is your typical journalist-reported legalese.  Phrases are often used without the writer really knowing the law.

_Finančna uprava _(acronym FURS) is a government body, the combined customs (former _Carinska uprava Republike Slovenije - CURS_) and tax revenue office (the equivalent of IRS - _Davčna uprava Republike Slovenije - DURS_).  Formerly DURS and now FURS is the body which handles all cases of  unpaid fines or taxes (see below) (in some cases they can seize assets  directly (eg. an administrative order to the debtor's bank), in other  cases they go through the public attorney (_državni pravobranilec _-  they only handle cases when the stat has financial or other civil  claims, they don't handle criminal cases (those are handled by _državni tožilec_)) to get a judicial decision (eg. when seizing real estate). 

Legally speaking _delo na črno _is  the situation when a company or an entrepreneur does business outside  the registered scope of the company, or (in case of foreign companies)  without having a registered subsidiary in Slovenia. 

_Zaposlovanje na črno _is  the situation when somebody actually does work for an employer, but  there's no formal employment (or other applicable) contract closed, the  employer doesn't register the employee, doesn't pay taxes (eg. income  tax) or insurances for them (eg. pension insurance, health insurance,  parental leave insurance, uneployment insurance - those are all  mandatory for employers employing workers on the base of an employment  contract). The one who breaks the law in this case is the employer, not  the employee.

Journalists often confuse the two terms, so it's hard to guess whether your example deals with _delo na črno _(meaning  the taxi driver just took their car and started using it as a taxi  without registring and obtaining permits first - which isn't really  likely) or with _zaposlitev na črno _(meaning that the taxi company had the driver working for them without them paying the taxes and insurances).

_Mestno redarstvo _is a communal (_občinski_) body, not a state (or government) body, so they differ from _občina _to _občina. _Basically they're a form of police, but with much, much more limited authority.  They're not trained as policemen, they're not allowed to carry weapons  (except maybe tasers, in some places), they can't make an arrest (in  this case they have to ask the police to do it) etc. Eg. they're the  ones who can tow your car away if you park wrong, but they can't issue a  fine for speeding. 

What I'm guessing happened in the text is that the taxi was parked wrong, and the _redar _went  to issue the fine, but when he asked for the papers of the taxi, he  noticed they weren't in order. So it wasn't a routine procedure, but a  procedure dealing with a specific infraction.


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## Gavril

Thanks for the explanation, MLP.

There is one other thing I don't quite understand: how would you define _postopek_ in the sentence _postopek so prezveli na finančni upravi_?

It sounds like the _postopek_ is somehow being "passed" from the _redarstvo_ to the _finančna uprava_. This sounds strange if _postopek_ is translated as "procedure" in English, because once a security guard has issued a fine, he cannot "pass" this action (procedure) on to someone else. Instead, he might pass the citation documents to someone else for further examination.

Does _postopek_ refer to the whole legal process that begins with the _redar_ issuing the fine, and continues with possible examination by other departments (the customs office, the public attorney, et cetera)? If so, I don't think there is an exact word corresponding to this in English (except maybe in legalese).


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## M_L_P

As I've said above, the writer doesn't really know the law exactly, but uses a simplified language that's common with journalists.

I can only speculate, but I see two options:

1) The finančna uprava would take care of seizing the funds for the unpaid fine. Formally speaking, this is a new procedure, but it is a logical continuation of the _redarstvo'_s actions, hence journalists often write about it as one procedure. Legally speaking, that's a mistake.

2) The _redarstvo _notified the _finančna uprava_ of the suspected _zaposlovanje na črno_, for them to start a new procedure to determine whether there was a violation. _Redarstvo _doesn't have the authority to issue fines for _zapodlovanje na črno_, so they can't start the procedure, but they can (and must) notify the appropriate body, which is either FURS or an inspector (from the _Inšpektorat za delo, _which is part of the ministry of labor, not FURS (which is part of the ministry of finance)). In this case FURS doesn't take over an existing procedure, but starts a new one. The journalist mistakenly takes the _redarstvo _notice to FURS as the start of the new procedure, which is not - the procedure starts when FURS issues a decision (whether they'll deal with the case or not (if there's no suspicion that a violation was commited). Again, the journalist is imprecise.

Basically, if the writer had taken the time to check the law, _postopek _would be correctly translated to procedure.

To be (legally) correct, the sentence should state something like that:
Finančna uprava je zadevo prevzela v obravnavanje. / Finančna uprava took the case for evaluation (whether to proceed with the process or not).


For further reference, there is the possibility of some "bouncing" of the same case between different bodies (especially from the administrative branch, which is subject to judicial oversight). Although the entire "route" can be logically seen as one process or procedure (postopek), it is (legally speaking) incorrect to call it such, although journalists aren't often bothered to put it down correctly.


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## Gavril

M_L_P said:


> 1) The finančna uprava would take care of seizing the funds for the  unpaid fine. Formally speaking, this is a new procedure, but it is a  logical continuation of the _redarstvo'_s actions, hence journalists often write about it as one procedure.



Zelo  zanimivo. It seems to me that this logic is not normally used in  English: an arrest or citation and the subsequent analysis/investigation  would be considered part of the same "case" (_zadeva_) in  English, but they would not normally be considered part of the same  "procedure"/"process". I wonder if the term for "procedure" is normally used this  way in the languages spoken near Slovene (German, BCS, etc.) as well.


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## M_L_P

If you want to be exact, then _postopek _can only be used in the same meaning as process in English. The common use of the word (in the media) in the wrong meaning (as case) doesn't make it right.


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