# Dual Citizenship



## Hockey13

DCPaco said:


> Good question Jacinta. As you can tell from my avatar, I consider myself Mexican because I was born there. Although, I am also a U.S. Citizen and I understand *the U.S. doesn't honor dual citizenship*...but Mexico does.


 
It doesn't???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageualCitizenMap.PNG

Moderator Note:  This is a spin-off from the thread *Native of Two Languages*.


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## DCPaco

Hockey13 said:


> It doesn't???
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DualCitizenMap.PNG


 
Well, this is what I've found and this is what I understand to be true.


A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a) of the INA [8 USC § 1448(a)]. Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of the oath, a new citizen must pledge "*to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen*."  
*In practice, it is unclear what if any true legal significance this statement has any more.* The US does not require a new citizen to take any formal steps to renounce his old citizenship before officials of the "old country"; and when the other country continues to claim a naturalized US citizen as one of its own, current US policy recognizes that such a person may have to use a passport from the other country in order to visit there, and such an action does *not* put the person's US citizenship in jeopardy.


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## Redisca

Hockey:  The US _allows_ people to have dual citizenship, but does not _recognize_ it -- as opposed to countries which require naturalized citizens to renounce their original citizenships formally, or strip people of their citizenship if they acquire such status elsewhere.


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## elroy

Redisca said:


> Hockey: The US _allows_ people to have dual citizenship, but does not _recognize_ it -- as opposed to countries which require naturalized citizens to renounce their original citizenships formally, or strip people of their citizenship if they acquire such status elsewhere.


 We're veering off-topic, but what do you mean by "recognize"?  If it allows it as long as it's ok with the other country, what more is necessary for "recognition"?   Are there other countries that both _allow and recognize_ dual citizenship, and if so, how do they differ from the US?


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## Redisca

elroy said:


> We're veering off-topic, but what do you mean by "recognize"?  If it allows it as long as it's ok with the other country, what more is necessary for "recognition"?   ?


Well, the readiest example that comes to mind is if the US and Country X go to war, and a double citizen of those countries fights on the side of X, his X citizenship cannot be invoked as a defense against the charge of treason -- even after the US and Country X kiss and make up.  In fact, swearing military allegiance to or accepting a policy-making post in another country may result in a loss of one's US citizenship.  A dual citizen also cannot evade the draft in the US or get out of paying taxes by invoking his other citizenship.  As far as the US government is concerned, a US citizen is a US citizen is a US citizen.



elroy said:


> Are there other countries that both _allow and recognize_ dual citizenship, and if so, how do they differ from the US?


  So I've been told, but I don't know for a fact.  Theoretically, however, a formal recognition of dual citizenship would entail modified rights and obligations for dual citizens as opposed to ordinary citizens.


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## elroy

Thanks for the info, Redisca.


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## Hockey13

I know that the US _does_ allow dual citizenship (otherwise our INS office would be inundated with complaints). In my case, I am both a German and a US citizen, but I must apply to retain my German citizenship by my 23rd year. If I am drafted by Germany, I have the choice to do a civil service, which is not equivalent to serving in another military...of this I am quite sure.


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## roxcyn

Hockey, I believe that you can only become a dual citizen if (a) you are a citizen of another country.  For example, you moved to USA from Germany.  If your family moved from another country and you want to apply for citizenship there.  Your grandparents are Italian (from Italy) and they did not withdraw their citizenship to Italy, you can apply for citizenship for Italy. 

But, I think if you decide to move to whatever country and apply for citizenship without having a heritage there already, you have to denounce your USA citizenship.


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## Hockey13

roxcyn said:


> Hockey, I believe that you can only become a dual citizen if (a) you are a citizen of another country. For example, you moved to USA from Germany. If your family moved from another country and you want to apply for citizenship there. Your grandparents are Italian (from Italy) and they did not withdraw their citizenship to Italy, you can apply for citizenship for Italy.
> 
> But, I think if you decide to move to whatever country and apply for citizenship without having a heritage there already, you have to denounce your USA citizenship.


 
In my situation, I have been a citizen of both countries from birth as I was born in the USA, my father is a resident of the USA, and my mother was a citizen of West Germany. I believe I could run for the highest office of both countries. I know for certain I could run for President of the US once I reach the age of 35, but I'm not entirely sure of Germany. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to.


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## Redisca

Hockey13 said:


> I believe I could run for the highest office of both countries.


  I distinctly remember reading a case about Meir Cohane almost having his US citizenship yanked when he ran for office in Israel.


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## roxcyn

Redisca said:


> I distinctly remember reading a case about Meir Cohane almost having his US citizenship yanked when he ran for office in Israel.



I am sure if one country did not like what their "citizen" was doing they could remove his (her) citizenship


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## Hockey13

Redisca said:


> I distinctly remember reading a case about Meir Cohane almost having his US citizenship yanked when he ran for office in Israel.


 
Right, that makes sense. I meant that if I wanted to, I could do either/or. Could you imagine if I became President and the Chancellor of Germany....at the same time??


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## Redisca

roxcyn said:


> I am sure if one country did not like what their "citizen" was doing they could remove his (her) citizenship


I don't know about other countries, but in the US, the grounds for stripping people of their citizenship are spelled out by statute.  The fact that the citizen is an alleged a**hole isn't one of them.


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## fenixpollo

roxcyn said:


> But, I think if you decide to move to whatever country and apply for citizenship without having a heritage there already, you have to denounce your USA citizenship.


 No, and "heritage" has nothing to do with it.  If I were to apply for Japanese citizenship (as a famous chess player has done), it would not matter whether I had Japanese ancestry. Legally, the US cannot forbid me from applying for citizenship in another country -- especially not on arbitrary and dubious grounds such as "race" or "ethnicity".

As DCPaco's post above suggests, unless a person takes specific action to renounce their US citizenship, they are a US citizen. By "specific action", I mean that they have to make a formal declaration (verbal or written) to an official of the Department of State.  Just because they swear an oath (of citizenship, of allegiance, etc.) to another country, they are not required to -- nor is it understood that they automatically -- renounce their US citizenship.


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## Redisca

fenixpollo said:


> By "specific action", I mean that they have to make a formal declaration (verbal or written) to an official of the Department of State.  Just because they swear an oath (of citizenship, of allegiance, etc.) to another country, they are not required to -- nor is it understood that they automatically -- renounce their US citizenship.


 Not true.  Please see Immigration & Nationality Act §349 (8 U.S.C. §1481).  Since I have fewer than 30 posts, I am not allowed to post links to other sites here.  However, if you PM me, I will provide a link to the text of the statute.  You can also find it yourself at the Cornell University law website.


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## HogansIslander

Redisca said:


> Not true.  Please see Immigration & Nationality Act §349 (8 U.S.C. §1481).  Since I have fewer than 30 posts, I am not allowed to post links to other sites here.  However, if you PM me, I will provide a link to the text of the statute.  You can also find it yourself at the Cornell University law website.



The link is here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001481----000-.html

The important part of this statute , with respect to this discussion, is "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality".

It has been interpreted by the Supreme Court that by default, one does not intend to relinquish one's citizenship, so simply becoming a citizen of another country (and thus presumably having to swear an oath of allegiance) does not cause loss of US nationality.  More info here:
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html


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## don maico

Having been borne in Argentina I have dual nationality ( English parent) but I am required to have but one passport - UK. If was to spend more than three months in Argentina I would be required to apply for one of theirs.


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## badgrammar

I am surprised that so many have this misconception about the US forbidding dual citizenship.  A law was passed back in the 70's or so that forbade it, I know because I had a French mother-in-law in Maine who was obligated to give up her French citizenship at that time.

But that law was repealed shortly after.  There is absolutely no problem anymore.  Examples:  I am a US citizen, I am applying for French citizenship as well, and have many American friends who have already successfully done so without any conflict of interest.  My children were born in France to a French papa, so they automatically have French citizenship.  When they were born, I registered them at the embassy, and they are also American nationals.  Once I tried to travel with my son to the states using his French passport.  I was stopped at immigration and told that they don't care where else he's a citizen, he's an American and as such must use his American passport to travel in the U.S..  

Your affiliation with another country (familial, personal, professional) has nothing to do with it.  If another country decides to make you a citizen, the U.S. cannot revoke your US nationality.  Conversely, it cannot require you to give up your citizenship in another country in order to get it in the US.

I am 110% sure of this, so if you were hesitating about applying for nationality, know that you can, and you will not be asked to give up your birth nationality.


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## Brioche

badgrammar said:


> Once I tried to travel with my son to the states using his French passport. I was stopped at immigration and told that they don't care where else he's a citizen, he's an American and as such must use his American passport to travel in the U.S..


 
This is similar to the situation in Australia. If you have Australian citizenship you must enter and leave the country on an Australian passport.

Prior to April 2002, an Australian who acquired the citizenship of another country, by his/her own action, lost Australian citizenship.

The only problem here with dual citizenship is that you cannot be a member of the Australian House of Representative or the Australian Senate if you
are "_a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power_" [Section 44 i of the Australian Constitution]


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## Redisca

Here is the statute as it exists NOW -- not in the 70's -- now:

_U.S.C. TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part III > § 1481 Prev | Next 

§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions


(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality— 
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or 
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or 
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if 
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or 
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or 
(4) 
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or 
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or 
(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or 
(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or 
(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. 
(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily. _


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## badgrammar

Yes and the first points, a), states clearly that:

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts *with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality*— 

I have many friends who came to France fro the U.S. and now hold two passports  - therefore two nationalities.  I will also soon fit that description.  The "with the intention" part is key...


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## fenixpollo

Notice, redisca, that while the law _implies_ that dual citizenship might be illegal, the law has been interpreted otherwise -- as HogansIslandar pointed out above.





HogansIslander said:


> The important part of this statute , with respect to this discussion, is "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality".
> 
> *It has been interpreted by the Supreme Court* that by default, one does not intend to relinquish one's citizenship, so simply becoming a citizen of another country


 It appears that the courts have focused on (a), not on its subsections.


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## curly

elroy said:


> Are there other countries that both _allow and recognize_ dual citizenship, and if so, how do they differ from the US?


 
I can tell you that Ireland allows multiple citezenship, One of the conditions being that we cannot avail of the Irish embassy in the country of which we are a citezen. Another is that our passport is the property of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, which has always made me wonder what he does with them when the expire..


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## Brioche

curly said:


> I can tell you that Ireland allows multiple citizenship, One of the conditions being that we cannot avail of the Irish embassy in the country of which we are a citizen.


 
The big softies who run Australia should follow that rule.
Back in July, when there was trouble between Israel and Lebanon, a great mob of dual nationals who are _permanently resident_ in Lebanon waved their Australian passports and demanded that Australia evacuate them.


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## jonto

curly said:


> I can tell you that Ireland allows multiple citezenship, One of the conditions being that we cannot avail of the Irish embassy in the country of which we are a citezen.


As far as I know, it's the same in the UK. I have UK/Irish dual nationality and was told that I couldn't avail of the British embassy in the Republic of Ireland, but apart from that there seems to be no problem with having dual or multiple citizenship for a UK citizen. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).


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## Chaska Ñawi

Brioche said:


> The big softies who run Australia should follow that rule.
> Back in July, when there was trouble between Israel and Lebanon, a great mob of dual nationals who are _permanently resident_ in Lebanon waved their Australian passports and demanded that Australia evacuate them.



The Canadian government evacuated many Canadians from Lebanon.  Some had dual citizenship, some held only Canadian citizenship.  Many had gone back during the summer vacation to visit family, attend weddings, etc.  Their dual citizenship made them no less Canadian.  Some had lived in Canada for thirty or forty years, paid taxes, and then retired to Lebanon.  I haven't been terribly proud of our government lately, but I was at that time.

Not many people objected to the stand .... but it was noted that many among the dissenters spend all their winters in Florida and Hawaii, and would undoubtedly expect to be evacuated in the event of hurricane, earthquake, or tsunami.


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## invictaspirit

The United States can write as many laws as it likes requiring naturalised Brits to renounce or cancel their British citizenship but it won't mean a damn thing.    You can't renounce British citizenship.  If you are born a British citizen you have a totally inalienable right to be British which no other government can cancel to a British passport.

You can destroy your British passport, wear a tshirt saying 'I hate the UK', live in another country for 50 years publishing articles about how you are no longer British...but if you change your mind they still have to let you come home with full employment and residency rights.

People who have been naturalised as British (people who were born to another nation and who aquired UK citizenship some time later) do not have this right and can be stripped of their British nationality should they continually break laws or be a threat to national security.

But...irrespective of race or creed, if you were born here and were British at birth, you can not lose your right to a passport and residency, no matter what you promise a foreign government.


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## Redisca

invictaspirit said:


> The United States can write as many laws as it likes requiring naturalised Brits to renounce or cancel their British citizenship but it won't mean a damn thing.


  The United States wrote a law requiring someone to renounce or cancel their citizenship?   Wow, that's news to me.  Do you have a citation?


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## invictaspirit

A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a) of the INA [8 USC § 1448(a)]. Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of the oath, a new citizen must pledge "*to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen*."

I assume this is taken seriously and has legal weight?


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## badgrammar

I don't think it is interpreted, at this point in time, to mean that you must give up your first nationality.  Are all Mexican citizens who are naturalized in the US required to give up their Mexican citizenship?  No.  Same goes for Europeans, I know many who have been naturalized and yet maintain their first nationality.  Laws are interpreted, and that one is not interpreted in that manner at the time being.  However, it was interpreted in that way for a period of a few years (maybe in the 70's?) in the U.S. before that decision was reversed.


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## Brioche

invictaspirit said:


> The United States can write as many laws as it likes requiring naturalised Brits to renounce or cancel their British citizenship but it won't mean a damn thing.  You can't renounce British citizenship. If you are born a British citizen you have a totally inalienable right to be British which no other government can cancel to a British passport.


 
You certainly can renounce your UK citizenship.
See _British Nationality Act 1981_.
After you have acquired another citizenship, you fill out Form RN1.
The Home Secretary will not accept your renuciation of citizenship if you are of unsound mind, or under 18, or if you would become stateless.

A person who renounces British citizenship has a right (once only) to resume that citizenship if the renunciation was necessary to enable him or her to keep or obtain some other citizenship.

As I mentioned above, you cannot be a member of the Australian Federal Parliament if you have an second citizenship. UK immigrants who want to stand for the federal parliament have to renounce their UK citizenship.

Becoming the citizen of another country does not mean the loss of UK citizenship. The only way to lose UK citizenship is via Form RN1.


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## invictaspirit

It's a technicality. It isn't real. It's just a piece of paper to satisfy foreign governments who insist on it. In practice if you are a born British citizen you never lose the right to resume citizenship.

*"A person who renounces British citizenship more than once, or for any other reason, may be allowed to resume that citizenship if the Home Secretary thinks fit."*

This always happens and has never been denied. OK...fair enough, it says '_may_ be'. An interesting test case might be a person who renounced UK citizenship three times, in order to aquire other nationalities, and committed awful crimes elsewhere and eventually fled home. If that *has* happened I believe that person would have been re-admitted anyway.

It remains the case that no-one who was a born British citizen has ever been permanently stripped of his/her nationality by the UK government.


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## ert

What if you commit treason or assassinate the Queen or something, couldn't they take away your British citizenship even then? (just to give an extreme example).


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## Lusitania

In Portugal it's possible to have dual citizenship.
Many migrants do. Especially from other CPLP countries.


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## ESustad

Old thread, but hopefully I'm not out of line in resurrecting it.  (Immigration lawyer here.)  To naturalize as a US citizen, one must renounce all allegiances to foreign countries.  However, some countries (e.g., Mexico, Turkey, Iran) do not recognize renunciation of citizenship.  While a Mexican who acquires US citizenship must renounce Mexican citizenship, Mexico will consider that individual Mexican for life.


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## Pedro y La Torre

ESustad said:


> Old thread, but hopefully I'm not out of line in resurrecting it.  (Immigration lawyer here.)  To naturalize as a US citizen, one must renounce all allegiances to foreign countries.  However, some countries (e.g., Mexico, Turkey, Iran) do not recognize renunciation of citizenship.  While a Mexican who acquires US citizenship must renounce Mexican citizenship, Mexico will consider that individual Mexican for life.



Do budding U.S. citizens really have to do it? Do U.S. authorities now require proof? I know more than one or two Irish people who've gotten U.S. citizenship but retain their Irish passports too.


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## rusita preciosa

I think we have discussed it here before..

When I got a US citizenship, among other papers I received a Xeroxed flyer that said that by becoming a US citizen I had to abandon all other citizenships and titles of nobility (!). I just ignored that becuse there is no way to track and enforce that.


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## JamesM

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Do budding U.S. citizens really have to do it? Do U.S. authorities now require proof? I know more than one or two Irish people who've gotten U.S. citizenship but retain their Irish passports too.



I think this is one of those subjects that we are not aware of as part of normal everyday life.  According to Wikipedia (take that as it is), there are 14 countries in the EU that have some sort of restriction on dual citizenship.  Austria, for example, doesn't allow dual citizenship for Austrians.  If an Austrian becomes a citizen of another country they lose their Austrian citizenship.  If we are natural-born citizens of a country the issue just never comes up.  This is not unique to the U.S. 

According to the Home Office, here is the policy in the UK:



> You will not normally lose your British nationality if you become a citizen or national of another country. If you are a British subject otherwise than by connection with the Republic of Ireland you will lose that status on acquiring any other nationality or citizenship. If you are a British protected person you will lose that status on acquiring any other nationality or citizenship.


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## ESustad

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Do budding U.S. citizens really have to do it? Do U.S. authorities now require proof? I know more than one or two Irish people who've gotten U.S. citizenship but retain their Irish passports too.



Yes, at the ceremony, the naturalizing alien takes an oath renouncing all other citizenships.  In practice, the US tolerates other citizenships, since the renunciation is unenforceable, particularly if the first country refuses to recognize it.  It has been an issue for Iranian nationals who naturalize in the US as young adults.  Iran is among the countries that doesn't recognize renunciation of citizenship, and also has (or had) compulsory military service for males.  So, an Iranian who becomes a US citizen at age 19 and returns to Iran to visit will be liable for conscription, which would have serious consequences vis-a-vis his oath to the US.


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## Pedro y La Torre

I didn't know that about Britain, interesting. Interesting too how the Irish are excluded.


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## Sepia

Redisca said:


> Well, the readiest example that comes to mind is if the US and Country X go to war, and a double citizen of those countries fights on the side of X, his X citizenship cannot be invoked as a defense against the charge of treason -- even after the US and Country X kiss and make up.  In fact, swearing military allegiance to or accepting a policy-making post in another country may result in a loss of one's US citizenship.  A dual citizen also cannot evade the draft in the US or get out of paying taxes by invoking his other citizenship.  As far as the US government is concerned, a US citizen is a US citizen is a US citizen.
> 
> So I've been told, but I don't know for a fact.  Theoretically, however, a formal recognition of dual citizenship would entail modified rights and obligations for dual citizens as opposed to ordinary citizens.



Sounds great but does not even work in the real world. Remember what the USA did to naturalized Citizens originating in Germany and Japan during WW II. It did noch help them a bit to have only one citizenship. So what difference should it make to have two.


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## Packard

Hockey13 said:


> I know that the US _does_ allow dual citizenship (otherwise our INS office would be inundated with complaints). In my case, I am both a German and a US citizen, but I must apply to retain my German citizenship by my 23rd year. If I am drafted by Germany, I have the choice to do a civil service, which is not equivalent to serving in another military...of this I am quite sure.



My niece was born in Brasil of two American parents.  They returned to the USA when she was about four months old.  She held dual citizenship until she was 18 years old.  On her 18th birthday she had to declare whether she would be Brazilian or American.  Dual citizenship was not permitted after she reached her majority.


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## merquiades

I've had dual nationality for a while now (US and French) and no one has ever questioned it.  I've never renounced anything, even been asked to renounce it and hold two passports. I know quite a few people in the same situation. I use one passport or another depending on which direction I'm travelling in and which one is advantageous.


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## Packard

merquiades said:


> I've had dual nationality for a while now (US and French) and no one has ever questioned it.  I've never renounced anything, even been asked to renounce it and hold two passports. I know quite a few people in the same situation. I use one passport or another depending on which direction I'm travelling in and which one is advantageous.


A quick search shows you are correct.  I guess it was Brazil that required the declaration.


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## Vanda

I have Italian citizenship - although those farabutto from Belo Horizonte never hand me my passport- my sister has hers for 10 years now. When she comes to Europe, she enters as Italian, when she returns she uses the Brazilian one to enter here. Now about USA, this is so typical of its government. when we read about the great inventors - of the past at least - they are all American, and then when we learn their nationality they are Russians, Jews, Germans and so one. This is really a play of political interest of the USA, I am afraid to say.


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## rusita preciosa

Vanda said:


> Now about USA, this is so typical of its government. when we read about the great inventors - of the past at least - they are all American, and then when we learn their nationality they are Russians, Jews, Germans and so one. This is really a play of political interest of the USA, I am afraid to say.


I don't think it is about the USA. I have a suspicion all countries "appropriate" their accomplished dual citizens to themselves. Sergey Brin (the co-founder of Google) is considered Russian in Russia, although his family emigrated to the US when he was little. Same with Nabokov, although he left Russia in his early 20s and write all his works in emigration.


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## JamesM

Vanda said:


> Now about USA, this is so typical of its government. when we read about the great inventors - of the past at least - they are all American, and then when we learn their nationality they are Russians, Jews, Germans and so one. This is really a play of political interest of the USA, I am afraid to say.



It has to be considered, Vanda, that we are a nation made up primarily of immigrants.  Once you become a citizen of the U.S. your original nationality (in the sense of where you were born) is only relevant to heritage. If I were to become a citizen of Brazil would you consider me Brazilian or still of U.S. nationality?

And I'd like to point that "Jew" is not a nationality.


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## learnerr

rusita preciosa said:


> Sergey Brin (the co-founder of Google) is considered Russian in Russia,


Why do you think so? Well, I do not know either who many people consider him, but personally I have always considered him an American without any afterthought, and for me it is so natural that I just never stopped on it. With Russia he has little to nothing to do.
Nabokov, true, is all a Russian to me; apart from the fact that he has written in Russian, that might have to do with the fact that he did not renounce his being Russian, rather the contrary.
As for people like Sikorsky, they are half by half to me, rather Americans than Russians, because their work was done not just physically on American territory, but in American framework of working.


rusita preciosa said:


> I don't think it is about the USA.


Yes, things like that, I think, are about any country.


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## Vanda

As far as I know - correct me if I am wrong - the person can't have 2 citizenships in USA, like he has to ''abandon'' his original citizenship. I can be Brazilian and Italian, don't have to give up anyone.


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## JamesM

Officially, yes -- only in the sense that the citizenship oath includes a renunciation of other citizenships. In real life, no.  A second citizenship isn't generally recognized by the U.S. (there are a few exceptions) but it doesn't affect the daily lives of those who hold passports from another country as well as the U.S.  See above.

It might be worth noting that the U.S. is not alone in this.  Germany, for example, has the same rule for any naturalized citizen from a non-EU country unless it is specifically forbidden by the person's "home" country.  Brazil happens to be one of the countries who says that Brazilian citizenship cannot be renounced.


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## Pedro y La Torre

JamesM said:


> It has to be considered, Vanda, that we are a nation made up primarily of immigrants.  Once you become a citizen of the U.S. your original nationality (in the sense of where you were born) is only relevant to heritage. If I were to become a citizen of Brazil would you consider me Brazilian or still of U.S. nationality?
> 
> And I'd like to point that "Jew" is not a nationality.



Not to mention that the ancestral countries still "claim" them. I can't count how many Irish-American inventors, politicians etc. that Irish people would be proud to claim as "Irish" even though they were, for all intents and purposes, 100 per cent American. I wonder whether the Irish are not more devoted to JFK's memory than Americans are.


----------



## Vanda

> Officially, yes -- only in the sense that the citizenship oath includes a  renunciation of other citizenships. In real life, no.  A second  citizenship isn't generally recognized by the U.S. (there are a few  exceptions) but it doesn't affect the daily lives of those who hold  passports from another country as well as the U.S.  See above.


So, this is my point: a political play from USA and the other countries that do the same: mainly if the person is someone proeminent in any area, or like I know some families here, to send the boys to war as target for bombs. Please don't take me badly here, what I mean when they force a person to give up their original citizenship they have all political interests, I don't see the same with double citizenship here, if I am making myself understood. I don't want to sound offensive here, just pointing what politics are like.


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## Angelo di fuoco

rusita preciosa said:


> I don't think it is about the USA. I have a suspicion all countries "appropriate" their accomplished dual citizens to themselves. Sergey Brin (the co-founder of Google) is considered Russian in Russia, although his family emigrated to the US when he was little. Same with Nabokov, although he left Russia in his early 20s and write all his works in emigration.



How many works did Nabokov write in Russian and how many in English?


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## merquiades

Vanda said:


> So, this is my point: a political play from USA and the other countries that do the same: mainly if the person is someone proeminent in any area, or like I know some families here, to send the boys to war as target for bombs. Please don't take me badly here, what I mean when they force a person to give up their original citizenship they have all political interests, I don't see the same with double citizenship, if I am making myself understood. I don't want to sound offensive here, just pointing what politics are like.



Ola Vanda.  All I can do is repeat that I have double citizenship, I don't hide it, and it is seen as normal.  The embassy knows it, when I fly I declare it, etc. No one has ever pressured me to take an oath (on either side).  When I become famous I'm not sure who will fight to claim me   In art museums on both sides of the Atlantic I see American (born Russia), French (worked in Spain), all sorts of combinations.  For Picasso it always says French (born in Spain).  However, on rue Alexander Graham Bell, not far from where I live, it reads American scientist, but no mention of UK.


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## Vanda

OH, I see. I understood that if you oath (tá certo?) American citizenship you  have to give up - officially - all the other(s) one(s).


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## merquiades

Vanda said:


> OH, I see. I understood that if you oath (tá certo?) American citizenship you  have to give up - officially - all the other(s) one(s).



I never took an oath but I was not nationalized.  I know too many American bi-nationals (personally not with a Brazilian combination though) for it not to be an accepted practice.

However, I know for a fact that China strips citizens of their Chinese nationality when they obtain another nationality.


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## JamesM

Vanda said:


> So, this is my point: a political play from USA and the other countries that do the same: mainly if the person is someone proeminent in any area, or like I know some families here, to send the boys to war as target for bombs. Please don't take me badly here, what I mean when they force a person to give up their original citizenship they have all political interests, I don't see the same with double citizenship here, if I am making myself understood. I don't want to sound offensive here, just pointing what politics are like.



You DO realize that a person can live in the U.S. for a lifetime and never become a citizen, right?  It is a choice to become a citizen that requires classes, a test and an oath.  No one is forced to do so.  You can be what is called "a resident alien" for life.  You can own property, run a company and do all your normal daily business.  You can't hold certain public offices.  So if you are concerned about politics you can choose simply to not engage in them by not becoming a citizen.  I get the impression from your comments that people are forced to become citizens here.  Not at all.


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## JamesM

Here's an interesting comment from one site:

http://www.legallanguage.com/legal-articles/becoming-a-us-citizen/


> While it’s true that the US has new citizens renounce their previous citizenships in taking the Oath of Allegiance during naturalization ceremonies, you can ask to omit that part of the oath if you want to retain your previous citizenship as well. While dual citizenship used to be banned in the United States, the Supreme Court struck down those laws — so if it’s the only thing keeping you from becoming a US citizen, it may be time to reconsider!


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## merquiades

JamesM said:


> Here's an interesting comment from one site:
> 
> http://www.legallanguage.com/legal-articles/becoming-a-us-citizen/



I just found this information in a link from the page you posted.



> Dual citizenship had previously been banned in the United States, but the US Supreme Court struck down most laws forbidding dual citizenship in 1967.



Now thankfully it's clear.


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## Vanda

JamesM said:


> Here's an interesting comment from one site:
> 
> http://www.legallanguage.com/legal-articles/becoming-a-us-citizen/



Ah! I didn't know that part ''you can ask to omit that part of the oath if you want to retain your previous citizenship as well.''


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## caelum

Vanda said:


> OH, I see. I understood that if you oath (tá certo?) American citizenship you  have to give up - officially - all the other(s) one(s).



A friend from my city in Canada moved to the US and had to renounce her Canadian citizenship to get an American one, but afterward she went and applied for and was granted her Canadian nationality again, because  we allow dual citizenship up here.


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## Hector9

caelum said:


> A friend from my city in Canada moved to the US and had to renounce her Canadian citizenship to get an American one, but afterward she went and applied for and was granted her Canadian nationality again, because  we allow dual citizenship up here.



That's interesting, how long did it take to your friend to re apply to her canadian citizenship? was it fast and easy?


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## caelum

I'm not exactly sure. I don't think it was a difficult process. Much like the UK, if you were born in Canada, you're always a Canadian, so I think they just grant it.


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## Packard

DCPaco said:


> Well, this is what I've found and this is what I understand to be true.
> 
> 
> A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a) of the INA [8 USC § 1448(a)]. Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of the oath, a new citizen must pledge "*to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen*."
> *In practice, it is unclear what if any true legal significance this statement has any more.* The US does not require a new citizen to take any formal steps to renounce his old citizenship before officials of the "old country"; and when the other country continues to claim a naturalized US citizen as one of its own, current US policy recognizes that such a person may have to use a passport from the other country in order to visit there, and such an action does *not* put the person's US citizenship in jeopardy.



My niece was born in Brazil of two U.S. citizens.  When she turned 18 she had to declare her citizenship.  I don't know if it was a USA requirement or a Brazilian requirement. She declared as a U.S. citizen.  That was 14 years ago.  Maybe the laws have changed since then.


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## Vanda

Packard said:


> My niece was born in Brazil of two U.S. citizens.  When she turned 18 she had to declare her citizenship.  I don't know if it was a USA requirement or a Brazilian requirement. She declared as a U.S. citizen.  That was 14 years ago.  Maybe the laws have changed since then.


I can bet it is USA requirements. I think it is so ''antipático'' having to renounce one citizenship to become American! Brazilians are allowed to have 2 citizenships. Nowadays I am Italian too, would NEVER renounce my Brazilian citizenship for any other in the world!


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## Packard

Vanda said:


> I can bet it is USA requirements. I think it is so ''antipático'' having to renounce one citizenship to become American! Brazilians are allowed to have 2 citizenships. Nowadays I am Italian too, would NEVER renounce my Brazilian citizenship for any other in the world!


  She might have agreed with you if she had not left Brazil when she was four months old.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Packard said:


> My niece was born in Brazil of two U.S. citizens.  When she turned 18 she had to declare her citizenship.  I don't know if it was a USA requirement or a Brazilian requirement. She declared as a U.S. citizen.  That was 14 years ago.  Maybe the laws have changed since then.



Lots of Irish citizens are also American citizens; I've never heard of it causing an issue.
Rumour has it that there are more Irish passport holders in the USA than in Ireland.


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## Packard

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Lots of Irish citizens are also American citizens; I've never heard of it causing an issue.
> Rumour has it that there are more Irish passport holders in the USA than in Ireland.



There are issues actually.  When you are in a foreign country and you get in trouble you can apply to your consulate for assistance.  With a dual citizenship you can not apply for assistance at either of the countries where you hold citizenship.  Additionally you cannot hold any state department positions, even though the language fluency might make you well-equipped for the jobs.

As a state department employee you would need to be able to hide behind diplomatic immunity.  As a citizen in the host country you would not have that immunity and might be a liability to the State Department.

Here is a list of countries that Brazil recognizes for dual citizenship:  http://thebrazilbusiness.com/article/dual-citizenship-in-brazil

There is probably a list for Ireland too.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Packard said:


> There are issues actually.  When you are in a foreign country and you get in trouble you can apply to your consulate for assistance. *With a dual citizenship you can not apply for assistance at either of the countries where you hold citizenship.*



But that wouldn't make sense, unless I've picked you up wrong. It would reduce dual passport holders to, essentially, stateless persons while in foreign countries. If I were a dual American-Irish citizen, I would, whilst in America, be afforded all the statutory rights due to an U.S. passport holder. And vice versa in Ireland. In a third country, I could apply for representation at either embassy/consulate (EU citizens can apply for representation by any other EU state while abroad).

The State department one is something I hadn't thought of. I suppose you'd be afforded the opportunity to renounce any foreign citizenships before they rejected you entirely though.


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## Vanda

Packard said:


> She might have agreed with you if she had not left Brazil when she was four months old.


Hope I haven't offended the family. This was not the intention. And hers is just another story. 
By the way, I'll try to find the law about foreigners born here. There is something about it somewhere...

Editing: here is the law: 
 Art.  1º São brasileiros: I - os nascidos no Brasil, ainda que de pais  estrangeiros, desde que não residam estes a serviço de seu país;

DA OPÇÃO -Art.  2º Quando um dos pais for estrangeiro, residente no Brasil a serviço de seu governo, e o outro for brasileiro, o filho, aqui nascido, poderá optar pela  nacionalidade brasileira, na forma do art. 129, nº II, da Constituição Federal.

So, if foreigners have children born here they''ll be BR if their parents are not working for their government. If one of the parents is foreign and the other is BR, the children can opt for BR citizenship.


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## Packard

Pedro y La Torre said:


> But that wouldn't make sense, unless I've picked you up wrong. It would reduce dual passport holders to, essentially, stateless persons while in foreign countries. If I were a dual American-Irish citizen, I would, whilst in America, be afforded all the statutory rights due to an U.S. passport holder. And vice versa in Ireland. In a third country, I could apply for representation at either embassy/consulate (EU citizens can apply for representation by any other EU state while abroad).
> 
> The State department one is something I hadn't thought of. I suppose you'd be afforded the opportunity to renounce any foreign citizenships before they rejected you entirely though.



I was reading about such a case.  The applicant held dual citizenship and was applying to the US State Department.  They rejected his application because he could not be given diplomatic immunity (and protect state secrets, I guess).  He offered to renounce his citizenship but the State Department said they could only use the information that was available at the time the application was made.  No job.  I will see if I can find that reference.

Addendum:  I found it!

https://careers.state.gov/engage/forums/consular-adjudicators/dual-citizenship-usa-brazil


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## Packard

Vanda said:


> Hope I haven't offended the family. This was not the intention. And hers is just another story.
> By the way, I'll try to find the law about foreigners born here. There is something about it somewhere...



No offense taken.  In fact, when she visited there with her parents I suggested she run to the Brazilian consulate and seek asylum.  She was not yet 18 and was a ward of her parents, but as a citizen of Brazil she could assert herself.

She said, "Why would I want to do that, Uncle Packard?"

"Why?" I said.  "So you can negotiate for better treatment (she was driving a Subaru--I suggested a BMW).


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## merquiades

I have two nationalities and two passports, one American, one French.  Never had any problem with that.  Also know 5 other people in the same situation.  I know there is no problem.  I even tell them when I fly and go through customs.  Sometimes they tell me to use one or the other so it goes quicker bureaucratically.  I also vote in both countries.


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## ESustad

merquiades said:


> I have two nationalities and two passports, one American, one French.  Never had any problem with that.  Also know 5 other people in the same situation.  I know there is no problem.  I even tell them when I fly and go through customs.  Sometimes they tell me to use one or the other so it goes quicker bureaucratically.  I also vote in both countries.



Legally, a US citizen is obligated to enter the US with a US passport, regardless of other nationalities.


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## merquiades

ESustad said:


> Legally, a US citizen is obligated to enter the US with a US passport, regardless of other nationalities.



and leave using the other passport.  That's what they have me do.


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## Sepia

So if they have an Italian citizen, Luigi X, leaving the USA 5 times showing his Italian passport and reentering the USA 5 times showing his US Passport, they have a Luigi X who must have entered the USA 5 times, but there is no record of him doing so. Is that just about how the system works? Shouldn't that cause some sort of a problem?


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## merquiades

Sepia said:


> So if they have an Italian citizen, Luigi X, leaving the USA 5 times showing his Italian passport and reentering the USA 5 times showing his US Passport, they have a Luigi X who must have entered the USA 5 times, but there is no record of him doing so. Is that just about how the system works? Shouldn't that cause some sort of a problem?


This is a very good question, but I'm afraid I have no answer.  Maybe countries are only interested in knowing who is entering, not leaving?  All I can say is that it works that way.  Actually the airlines encourage/ enforce this system.  On the times that I have inadvertently decided to show another passport, they ask for visa/return tickets etc. and when I explain the situation they always tell me (us - as it is the same with my friends) to use the passport always in the direction you are travelling to avoid being hassled.  So overtime that has become routine.


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## Pedro y La Torre

merquiades said:


> This is a very good question, but I'm afraid I have no answer.  Maybe countries are only interested in knowing who is entering, not leaving?  All I can say is that it works that way.  Actually the airlines encourage/ enforce this system.  On the times that I have inadvertently decided to show another passport, they ask for visa/return tickets etc. and when I explain the situation they always tell me (us - as it is the same with my friends) to use the passport always in the direction you are travelling to avoid being hassled.  So overtime that has become routine.



Does the U.S. give you an exit stamp? I don't believe it does.


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## merquiades

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Does the U.S. give you an exit stamp? I don't believe it does.



I just had a look.  No, I don't have any exit stamps in my passport.


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## ESustad

The US typically does take your I-94 upon departure from the country.


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## merquiades

ESustad said:


> The US typically does take your I-94 upon departure from the country.



Never knew it existed until now.


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## ESustad

merquiades said:


> Never knew it existed until now.



It only exists online now.  It used to be the white form that CBP would staple into your passport upon arrival.


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## merquiades

ESustad said:


> It only exists online now.  It used to be the white form that CBP would staple into your passport upon arrival.



I remember the blue cards you had to fill out on the plane prior to landing, but they just took them from me, never stapled them into my passport.  I go in on a US passport though.  So I avoid all that paperwork.


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## Nipnip

ESustad said:


> It only exists online now.  It used to be the white form that CBP would staple into your passport upon arrival.



How was it replaced?

They did use to request the little white added stamp at exit, additionally, you were requested to scan your passport on machines installed for that purpose after customs and security, at least when traveling overseas. 

It used to be the Airlines responsibility to collect the white stamps, but I noticed that they just but them in an improvised cardboard box. Anyways, this was when they couldn't spy as much and tougher on-site security was needed.


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## Maxi Muneyoshi

Packard said:


> Here is a list of countries that Brazil recognizes for dual citizenship:  http://thebrazilbusiness.com/article/dual-citizenship-in-brazil
> .



According to the list, dual German-Brazilian citizenship is not possible, but in fact it is, depending on the circumstances. This citizenship thing has so many nuances that such a list is bound to have some mistakes.


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## london calling

jonto said:


> As far as I know, it's the same in the UK. I have UK/Irish dual nationality and was told that I couldn't avail of the British embassy in the Republic of Ireland, but apart from that there seems to be no problem with having dual or multiple citizenship for a UK citizen. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).


I have dual UK/Italian citizenship and cannot avail of the British Embassy here in Italy if I am in any sort of 'trouble'. 

Just as an aside. When my son was born here (of an Italian father and therefore automatically an Italian national) I went to the Consulate and applied for British citizenship for him: it was granted immediately.


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## Mirlo

Hockey13 said:


> I know that the US _does_ allow dual citizenship (otherwise our INS office would be inundated with complaints). In my case, I am both a German and a US citizen, but I must apply to retain my German citizenship by my 23rd year. If I am drafted by Germany, I have the choice to do a civil service, which is not equivalent to serving in another military...of this I am quite sure.



 I agree , my oldest daughter was born in an Army base in Panama and she have dual citizenship. No one have ever told her that she have to renounce to the Panamanian one.


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## aloofsocialite

I was born in the US and thus have a US passport. I also hold a Japanese passport because that's where my father was born. In my case, it wasn't an easy process to have done, since I had to obtain a copy of my Japanese birth certificate from a government office _in Japan, _fill out all the paperwork _in Japanese _(there are no other language options) and register with the Japanese government as a citizen living overseas. I've never had any problem using my Japanese passport or had problems from the US government.


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## Sepia

A new Danish law is coming up, allowing persons to regain Danish citizenship and allowing them to have dual citizenship.


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## mexerica feliz

Vanda said:


> I can be Brazilian and Italian, don't have to give up anyone.



É vero.


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## duvija

My son has 3. He was born in Argentina, his parents (us) are Uruguayans so he's also Uruguayan, and became an American citizen. Didn't have to give up any of those.


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## Packard

duvija said:


> My son has 3. [...]



Not really a "dual citizen" now is he?  He'd have to give up one to become one.


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## duvija

Packard said:


> Not really a "dual citizen" now is he?  He'd have to give up one to become one.



Trial, I guess. But it sounds awful !


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## JamesM

(Triple, I think.   )


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## Packard

Wiki calls it "multiple citizenship" or "multiple nationality".  Or a "Multi" for short, I guess:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

Interestingly:

[...] Colloquial speech refers to people "holding" multiple citizenship but technically each nation makes a claim that this person be considered its national.[...]


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## Rodal

Hockey13 said:


> It doesn't???
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageualCitizenMap.PNG
> 
> Moderator Note:  This is a spin-off from the thread *Native of Two Languages*.



If The US does not allow dual citizenship but other countries do, does that mean that an american citizen not born in the United States that was naturalized in the States and renounced his citizenship from let's say Brazil (for example), he can still go back to his mother country and claim to be a citizen of that country while not in the US? or this is a rule that only applies while living in the US?


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## Packard

Rodal said:


> If The US does not allow dual citizenship but other countries do, does that mean that an american citizen not born in the United States that was naturalized in the States and renounced his citizenship from let's say Brazil (for example), he can still go back to his mother country and claim to be a citizen of that country while not in the US? or this is a rule that only applies while living in the US?




The USA does not permit dual citizenship.  Multiple citizenship - Wikipedia

My niece, born in Brazil, but living all but the first few months in the USA of American parents had to declare her citizenship when she turned 18.

I would assume that if she were born in Brazil it would be easier for her to get a new Brazilian citizenship, but I would also assume that she would have to apply like everyone else.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Packard said:


> The USA does not permit dual citizenship.  Multiple citizenship - Wikipedia
> 
> My niece, born in Brazil, but living all but the first few months in the USA of American parents had to declare her citizenship when she turned 18.
> 
> I would assume that if she were born in Brazil it would be easier for her to get a new Brazilian citizenship, but I would also assume that she would have to apply like everyone else.



Hi, Pack, In the Wikipedia article you cited, it says "...the United States allow dual citizenship". 

I know someone with three citizenships/nationalities: Born in the US to a French mother and an Italian father (actually from San Remo). Now, of course, she has US & EU passports.


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## Packard

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> Hi, Pack, In the Wikipedia article you cited, it says "...the United States allow dual citizenship".
> 
> I know someone with three citizenships/nationalities: Born in the US to a French mother and an Italian father (actually from San Remo). Now, of course, she has US & EU passports.



I missed that.  But of course the reason the US allows dual citizenship is that we tax worldwide.  So someone with a dual citizenship living, say, in Paris would be tax-liable in the USA.  Even if they never visit the USA at all.  

And if you want to quit your US citizenship you have to pay up about $2,400.00.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I think there's a minimum income earned abroad below which US citizens living in another country don't have to pay US taxes.


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## Rodal

Packard said:


> I missed that.  But of course the reason the US allows dual citizenship is that we tax worldwide.  So someone with a dual citizenship living, say, in Paris would be tax-liable in the USA.  Even if they never visit the USA at all.
> 
> And if you want to quit your US citizenship you have to pay up about $2,400.00.



If I'm understanding this correctly, someone with dual citizenship (one of which is american citizenship) who lives in Paris, can have dual citizenship while living in Paris until this person moves to the US at which time this person has to relinquish their dual citizenship and just become an american citizen, correct? I wonder if this is something that needs to be noted by immigration to ensure this person is entering the US with an American passport and not exiting the US with a foreign passport that should have been relinquished at the time they were sworn into America citizenship.


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## duvija

You don't have to give up any other citizenship. It used to be like that, but not anymore. They don't ask for any passport back. I guess they discovered it was useless, because if you give up your 'native' passport, you don't lose more than that passport. You turn around, go to your Consulate and say 'I've lost it', and you get another one.


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## Rodal

duvija said:


> You don't have to give up any other citizenship. It used to be like that, but not anymore. They don't ask for any passport back. I guess they discovered it was useless, because if you give up your 'native' passport, you don't lose more than that passport. You turn around, go to your Consulate and say 'I've lost it', and you get another one.


 But wouldn't this be grounds for loosing your american citizenship of you swore to relinquish other nationalities and then you turn around and acquire your old passport back?


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## merquiades

There is absolutely no problem with having dual nationality in the US.  I know a lot of people who have two or three passports.  I do and go back and forth from France to the US often.  I just change passports when I go through different customs.


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## Packard

There used to be a significant problem being a dual citizen with the USA.  In 1966 a college friend from Finland (I think it was Finland) with a dual citizenship with the USA didn't want to give up his American citizenship, but he also did not want to be drafted into the military to be sent to Vietnam.

He fretted about it until he made up his mind and then would never mention it again.  I never found out what he did.


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## JamesM

Yes, it's changed quite a bit over the past fifty years.


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## duvija

Now, you may have all the nationalities you can acquire... Legally, I mean.


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## 8thnote

duvija said:


> Now, you may have all the nationalities you can acquire... Legally, I mean.



Acquiring nationalities sounds like fun.


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## Youngfun

China doesn't allow dual citizenship so I lost it when I acquired the Italian one.
On the other I could exploit some loopholes, and I could use two ways:

1. Marry a woman from Hong Kong or Macao.
2. Acquire the Republic of China (aka Taiwan) nationality.


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## AutumnOwl

Packard said:


> There used to be a significant problem being a dual citizen with the USA.  In 1966 a college friend from Finland (I think it was Finland) with a dual citizenship with the USA didn't want to give up his American citizenship, but he also did not want to be drafted into the military to be sent to Vietnam.
> 
> He fretted about it until he made up his mind and then would never mention it again.  I never found out what he did.


He can' t have had a Finnish (or Swedish) citizenship, at least not legally, as neither Finland or Sweden allowed dual citizenships until after 2000. I lost my Finnish citizenship when I applied for a Swedish one when I was 18. The laws regarding dual citizenships changed in Sweden 2001 and in 2003 in Finland, and I could apply to get my Finnish citizenship back.

One well-known Swedish hockey player, Ulf Samuelsson, made the mistake to apply for  U.S. citizenship, and was kicked out of the Swedish ice-hockey team in the 1998 Olympic Games because of not being a Swedish citizen: Ulf Samuelsson - Wikipedia


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## JamesM

8thnote said:


> Acquiring nationalities sounds like fun.



Not so much fun when war breaks out.  Also, not a lot of fun when different taxing agencies think they are due taxes on the same income or property.


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## Stoggler

JamesM said:


> Also, not a lot of fun when different taxing agencies think they are due taxes on the same income or property.



Although most countries* in the world have double-taxation treaties (DTAs) so that individuals often don't end up paying twice for the same thing, although they might still have to pay something to each country (depending on the individual treaty and type of tax).

*well, a lot anyway! I don't know the numbers involved though.


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## JamesM

It looks like the US has tax treaties with 67 out of 196 countries.


----------

