# Aber heute sitzt nur ein Tourist alleine auf einer Bank (word order)



## loureed4

Hello,

  I am trying to figure out how can I build this given sentence in other ways: "Aber heute sitzt nur ein Tourist alleine auf einer Bank". 

  I have translated into English as: "But today only a Tourist alone is sitting on a bench." 

I was wondering if I could have written it like these:

1- "Aber nur ein Tourist alliene sitzt heute auf einer Bank." (this one souns fine to me)
  2- "Nur Ein Tourist alliene sitzt aber heute auf einer Bank" (The position of "Aber" here looks so awkward to me)

Thanks in advance!


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## Perseas

Hi,
my only comment is that "alleine" should be after "heute" in both sentences. I 'm also waiting for confirmation or not.


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## loureed4

Hi Perseas,

   Thanks for your kind reply!

   Why "alleine" after "heute" ? Is it a rule?

Thakns a lot!


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## Perseas

In your sentences the verbs should be placed after the subject. Also, in German temporal adverbs are placed before other modifiers.


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## Liam Lew's

Somehow the sentence sounds very odd to me. It doesn't matter if the word "alleine" is after "heute" or if it's like the original sentence. It just sounds odd.

Let's see what others think about it.


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## michael137

Weitere Möglichkeiten diesen seltsamen Satz zu bilden wären:

Heute sitzt aber nur ein Tourist alleine auf einer Bank. 

oder

Heute aber sitzt nur ein Tourist alleine auf einer Bank.


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## ernest_

The rule is to keep the verb in second position. See here and here.

I think in your sentences the verb is not in second position. You have "nur ein Tourist", then "alleine", then the verb. Here "alleine" is not an adjective that is attached to "Tourist", in that case it should be "ein allein*er* Tourist".

Have in mind that I'm just a learner and could be wrong.


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## Hutschi

Nur ein Tourist alleine sitzt auf einer Bank. 

Hier gehört "alleine" zu "nur ein Tourist". ("Allein" belongs to the phrase "nur ein Tourist).
Die Wortgruppe (the phrase) ist "nur ein Tourist alleine". = (Nur ein Tourist und niemand anders) sitzt allein auf der Bank.

Die Grundformen sind: (The base forms are: )
(Er allein) sitzt. - "allein" modifies "er"
(Er sitzt) allein.  - "allein" modifies "er sitzt"

In beiden Fällen ist das Verb an zweiter Position.
In both sentences the verb is at the second position (of phrases).


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## Schlabberlatz

> "ein allein*er* Tourist".


This doesn't work. You'd have to say "ein Tourist, der allein ist" or "ein einsamer Tourist", but that would be stronger - "lonely" instead of just "alone".


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## Arukami

Schlabberlatz said:


> This doesn't work. You'd have to say "ein Tourist, der allein ist" or "ein einsamer Tourist", but that would be stronger - "lonely" instead of just "alone".



Or you'd need to use the word "alleinig" and make it "alleiniger Tourist", but this usage is rare so it's probably not an option here.


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## loureed4

ernest_ said:


> The rule is to keep the verb in second position. See here and here.
> 
> I think in your sentences the verb is not in second position.



Thanks Ernest. It is not the second position but the second idea. I was confused but I was told so by three different people.


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## loureed4

In the sentences I propose as alternative ways to write it:

1- "Aber nur ein Tourist alliene sitzt heute auf einer Bank." 
  2- "Nur Ein Tourist alliene sitzt aber heute auf einer Bank"

The verb is the second idea because "Aber" makes position cero, so, it doesn't count for an idea, as far as I told.


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## michael137

loureed4 said:


> In the sentences I propose as alternative ways to write it:
> 
> 1- "Aber nur ein Tourist alliene sitzt heute auf einer Bank."
> 2- "Nur Ein Tourist alliene sitzt aber heute auf einer Bank"
> 
> The verb is the second idea because "Aber" makes position cero, so, it doesn't count for an idea, as far as I told.




Satz 1 ist leider falsch: Richtig: Aber nur ein Tourist sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank.
Satz 2 ist ebenfalls falsch gebildet: Richtig: Aber nur ein Tourist sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank.


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## loureed4

Michael137, thanks a lot!!

Didn't you write the same exact sentence twice?.

I fail to understand why mines are wrong. Is it because of "alliene" put together with "Tourist" ?. As Hustchi said, they are a pice: "Nur ein Tourist alleine" , well, I think, I am a beginner , so, I am learning from the very bottom. 

Thanks a lot again!!


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## michael137

Oh ja, richtig. Da hat wohl die Morgenstunde zugeschlagen. Sorry! Satz 2 könnte lauten: "Nur ein Tourist aber sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank." Ein Satz, der im Alltagsgebrauch kaum so vorkommen würde...


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## Hutschi

I want to add an idea:

"Allein/alleine" is usually redundand in these sentences. It emphasizes the idea that it is only one tourist or that he is lonely, depending on context.

I have a question;

_Only a tourist alone_ is sitting on the bank bench.
Only a tourist is sitting lonely/alone/isolated on a bank bench. 

Is this possible in English? I think it corresponds to the sentence structure but I am not sure.


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## loureed4

michael137 said:


> Oh ja, richtig. Da hat wohl die Morgenstunde zugeschlagen. Sorry! Satz 2 könnte lauten: "Nur ein Tourist aber sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank." Ein Satz, der im Alltagsgebrauch kaum so vorkommen würde...



Thanks Michael! 

I don't understand advanced German, well, not even simple sentences sometimes, I have been studying German for 2 weeks now!

There is something I don't understand about your proposal, which is this one:

"Nur ein Tourist *aber *sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank." .  ...Why "aber" in that position?

Thanks again!


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## michael137

"Allein/alleine" is usually redundand in these sentences. It emphasizes the idea that it is only one tourist."

Das "alleine" kann, muss aber nicht redundant sein. Es könnten auch Touristenpaare dort sitzen und nur einer davon ist alleine unterwegs....


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## Schlabberlatz

Hutschi said:


> _Only a tourist alone_ is sitting on the bank.
> Only a tourist is sitting lonely/alone/isolated on a bank.


"Bench", not "bank". Don't know about the rest, but these sentences surely sound odd to me.


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## loureed4

Thanks a lot! 

I still wonder why: "Nur ein Tourist *aber *sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank" works and not either of the following ones:

1- "Aber nur ein Tourist alliene sitzt heute auf einer Bank." 
  2- "Nur Ein Tourist alliene sitzt aber heute auf einer Bank" 

Sorry for asking so much, it is just that the word order, well, gets me crazy. I guess I´ll have to dig into it far deeper, I thought there were some rules , but I fail to see some of them.

THANKS REALLY FOR YOUR PATIENCE!


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## Hutschi

1 - "Aber nur ein Tourist all*ei*ne sitzt heute auf einer Bank." (I think, this works) - aber= but
  2 - "Nur ein Tourist alleine sitzt aber heute auf einer Bank." (I think, this works too) - aber= however

But both sentences need context, because they have open relations.
"Aber" contradicts another idea, like "but".
So this idea should be somewhere above in the text or dialogue.
"Auf einer Bank" (on a bench) is very general. It has to be restricted by context.
"... auf einer Bank im Park" - on a bench in the park.


To understand "aber":

Aber Michael schrieb, die Reihenfolge sei falsch. (Aber indicates that a contradiction follows here.)
But Michael wrote this sequence is wrong. (Later he revised it, as far as I understand, in #15))

Sometimes "aber" can mean "however" or have other meanings.


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## loureed4

Thanks a lot Hutschi, once more!

I don't understand what do you mean by "they have open relations" although I guess you mean that if the sentences begin with "Aber" it is because (as you said) they are referring to something, but I thought this wasn't necessary to talk about the word order in the German language.

  As for "...auf enier Bank..." needing to be restricted by context, well, in English I think you can say: "He was sitting on a bench reading a paper when suddenly..."


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## manfy

loureed4 said:


> [...] I have been studying German for 2 weeks now!


2 weeks?? There's only one advice I can give: DO NOT go down that road!! German is NOT one of the easiest languages that you just learn by some basic rules! It will take time, but you WILL get there after putting in the effort (and patience!). 
The topic you are touching is quite advanced! You should focus on more basic language concepts for now. The advanced concepts will become much clearer as you go along!


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## loureed4

Okay, I guess I should do that. I am doing it all on my own, so, I guess sometimes need guidance, just as this valuable tip you have just given to me, which I indeed appreciate.

Thanks a lot manfy, I just thought there were clear, easy-to-understand word order rules .


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## michael137

ad Hutschi: "Aber nur ein Tourist all*eine sitzt heute auf einer Bank." (I think, this works) - aber= but" ** nicht richtig!

*Richtig: "Aber nur ein Tourist sitzt heute alleine auf einer Bank." Das alleine bezieht sich hier auf die Art und Weise des Sitzens: Wie sitzt er? alleine. Bezöge es sich auf den Touristen wäre es ein alleinstehender, einsamer etc. Tourist.


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## Hutschi

loureed4 said:


> Thanks a lot Hutschi, once more!
> 
> I don't understand what do you mean by "they have open relations" although I guess you mean that if the sentences begin with "Aber" it is because (as you said)* they are referring to something,* but I thought this wasn't necessary to talk about the word order in the German language.
> 
> As for "...auf enier Bank..." needing to be restricted by context, well, in English I think you can say: "He was sitting on a bench reading a paper when suddenly..."



Exactly. They are reffering to something. Valid word order may depend on context.

---
And I think manfy is right. This special sentence is very advanced.
For the moment you can use as default cluster:

"Nur ein Tourist sitzt (hier) heute all*ei*ne auf einer Bank."  

All others may be right but are seldom. ("Hier"="here" is optional, it adds some context.)


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## loureed4

The word order in German, what an issue!! :-/ , hehe.


*Thanks all*, that settles it I suppose.


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