# Transliteration: Elie Ayache



## fortifier

Hi everybody

Could you please tell me how _Elie Ayache_ is written in Arabic (it is an originally Arabic name)? Is it إلی عیاش?

Thank you


----------



## rarabara

is there the correct pronunciation of this name?
the thing you wrote means "to/toward Aiasha"


----------



## fortifier

rarabara said:


> is there the correct pronunciation of this name?
> the thing you wrote means "to/toward Aisha"


I believe it is: Elie Ayache


----------



## rarabara

fortifier said:


> I believe it is: Elie Ayache



my prediction is :  ألّي  إي`ْجهِي
I presume it would not be originally Arabic name. Because in fact ; I would more properly try to write it like this one:

إياْجْهيْ

but to my existing knowledge this is not allowed/possible in Arabic grammar.
note please I am not native English (and therefore,I listened the name by google translate) but feel myself highly qualified on what to write for whatever I hear in Arabic  
maybe native Arabic members better help,though.


----------



## fortifier

I think you are right, perhaps it is not an Arabic name.


----------



## Sadda7

Elie is Elijah in English or إلياس in Arabic, Ayache is عَيَّاشْ, so it's إلِي عياش or إلياس عياش.


----------



## rarabara

fortifier said:


> I think you are right, perhaps it is not an Arabic name.


yeah yes , that is my personal opinion. But hearing the case from a native Arabic (preferably grammarian) would be good.


----------



## rarabara

meanwhile. the pronunciation of one letter is not originally Arabic . we pronunciate that letter as "ç" when it is alone in Turkish.
(a very good example for that usage in Turkish is : "çiy".)
and as for english , that letter is pronunciated like "ch" or in pinyin (romanization in simplified chinese)




> an interesting point (correlated the issue) which surprises me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptians pronunciate ج letter as "g" (in English: like in this word "Grocery")
Click to expand...


but by originality: I implied/referred MSA.

obviously : "ch" (as in Ayache ) is not pronunciated as    ش in MSA.


----------



## akhooha

It would be written إيلي عياش
For a discussion of its origin (Arabic or foreign), see:
معنى اسم ايلي وحكم التسمية Eli


----------



## rarabara

akhooha said:


> It would be written إيلي عياش
> For a discussion of its origin (Arabic or foreign), see:
> معنى اسم ايلي وحكم التسمية Eli


hi,
with quick overview I could not find anything about the second part of name (last name) (i.e. Ayache)


----------



## akhooha

rarabara said:


> h
> with quick overview I could not find anything about the second part of name (last name) (i.e. Ayache)


For an example of عياش being transliterated as Ayache, see 
William Ayache - Wikipedia


----------



## rarabara

akhooha said:


> For an example of عياش being transliterated as Ayache, see
> William Ayache - Wikipedia


as I said in private messaging on your question or allegations that you forwarded to me.
Ayache is not being اياش  from english pronunciation  to MSA.
wikipedia is already saying that the name was in French or that one was French.
now, among the details, I am afraid , I have to say that other Arabic member (Above) (@Sadda7 has high potentiality to have stated wrong transliteration. Because any word's pronunciation can highly be different in any language in comparison.

More properly
 Ayache From English to MSA as :عَيَّاشْ is wrong.
but;
Ayacha From French to MSA : عَيَّاشْ seems correct.

Also there I can say that A is not equivalent pronunciation of ع

as same as I can say that willian From English pronunction cannot be pronunciated in MSA. (Because و does not take place of w letter in fact)

now, I better understand why some learners live/have difficulties to learn a new language.


----------



## Sadda7

@rarabara
The surname عياش is an old Arabic name, and it is known in most of Arabic speaking countries, Ayache is a just a way of writing it in Latin characters, it can be Ayache, Ayash or Ayyash.

*Update*: I asked Elie Ayache himself, and he said that his name in Arabic is إيلي عياش.


----------



## rarabara

Sadda7 said:


> @rarabara
> The surname عياش is an old Arabic name, and it is known in most of Arabic speaking countries,


I have no problem with this explanation really.



Sadda7 said:


> Ayache is a just a way of writing it in Latin characters, it can be Ayache, Ayash or Ayyash



But this explanation is containing high risk to be wrong or already wrong.
could you provide us please what you did mean by "Latin characters"?


----------



## Sadda7

@rarabara Read the update.


----------



## rarabara

Sadda7 said:


> @rarabara
> The surname عياش is an old Arabic name, and it is known in most of Arabic speaking countries, Ayache is a just a way of writing it in Latin characters, it can be Ayache, Ayash or Ayyash.
> 
> *Update*: I asked Elie Ayache himself, and he said that his name in Arabic is إيلي عياش.
> View attachment 72659


no,I did not really make any allegation whether it was Arabic or not, in the you way you supposed.
But what I said there is that the pronunciation of the samely written words may be incorrectly transliterated  into the third language.
@akhooha ooha was already assertaining that the French pronunciation of the Ayache would be written like you provided but I said  English would not


----------



## I.K.S.

Sounds like a sephardic jewish name to me, عياش is a common family name amongst jewish minority in Morocco, جرمان عياش (Germain Ayache) is a famous Moroccan historian for example.


----------



## Hemza

I.K.S. said:


> Sounds like a sephardic jewish name to me, عياش is a common family name amongst jewish minority in Morocco


The name is also found in Algeria Tunisia and Libya (or at least, amongst people who hail from these couuntries including Morocco). It is definitely a Jewish Maghrebi name. It is indeed an Arabic name.


----------



## cherine

rarabara said:


> what I said there is that the pronunciation of the samely written words may be incorrectly transliterated  into the third language.


Arabs whose first foreign language transliterate the letter ش the wat it is pronounced in French (ch), not English (sh).
For example, I write my name شيرين like this (Cherine), while a German speaking person would most probably write it Schirin, and an English speaker would write it Shirin (or Sherin).
So, عياش which is an Arabic word and name can be transliterated as Ayash, Ayach, ayyash, ayyach.. and a few other ways.


----------



## rarabara

cherine said:


> Arabs whose first foreign language transliterate the letter ش the wat it is pronounced in French (ch), not English (sh).


is there a logical reason for this ? (I mean whether there would be a reason for this in order to answer "why?"?) in fact, I can make a prediction but the reality might be other than what I thought.



cherine said:


> For example, I write my name شيرين like this (Cherine),


Interestingly ...although I have never said to you, I was thinking like this :

I know this name , because it is availble in Kurdish & Turkish too. (Şirin (Turkish)) For kurdish we also make i to oblique especially if the name owner is a "male" ,like this : شَرين(for a boy)    شِيرين(for a girl) , in Kurdish this name mean : "sweet" or "very sweet" , I did not look what it means in Arabic.

but to relate it the context , I offen (whenever I came across your name there) I had been thinking "oh, this should not have been  transliterated in English, because I nicely recognize this name but it seems wrong. ("cherine") (I added sometimes : "Gosh! how can one make a better prediction for the transliteration of  anyone else ? is this possible?  (I directly & normally replied "No" but confused.  )


cherine said:


> So, عياش which is an Arabic word and name can be transliterated as Ayash, Ayach, ayyash, ayyach.. and a few other ways.


yeah yes,I also thought that عياش would be Arabic. Really OP did not ask (or define) in what language the translitaretaion should be ...
so, I normally accepted English by default.


----------



## Hemza

rarabara said:


> is there a logical reason for this ? (I mean whether there would be a reason for this in order to answer "why?"?) in fact, I can make a prediction but the reality might be other than what I thought.


Some Arabic speakers have got as a second language French or English usually. When they have to transcript a name using Latin letters, they instinctively use either the French script rules (usually Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Tchad and sometimes, Lebanon) while some use the English script rules (Egypt, Sudan, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Arabian countries and Iraq). I'm not sure for Libya, whever they use the Italian rules or stick to the English ones given that young Libyans today probably speak more English than Italian.


rarabara said:


> I know this name , because it is availble in Kurdish & Turkish too. (Şirin (Turkish)) For kurdish we also make i to oblique especially if the name owner is a "male" ,like this : شَرين(for a boy)    شِيرين(for a girl) , in Kurdish this name mean : "sweet" or "very sweet" , I did not look what it means in Arabic.


According to my searches, it's the same name that you find in Persian, Arabic, Kurdish and Turkish though I think in Arab countries, it's worn by females and not by males.


rarabara said:


> yeah yes,I also thought that عياش would be Arabic. Really OP did not ask (or define) in what language the translitaretaion should be ...
> so, I normally accepted English by default.


The person is probably from Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia hence the transliteration has been made using the French system where "ch" is pronounced like Arabic ش (which corresponds to English "sh").


----------



## rarabara

Hemza said:


> Some Arabic speakers have got as a second language French or English usually. When they have to transcript a name using Latin letters, they instinctively use either the French script rules (usually Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Tchad and sometimes, Lebanon) while some use the English script rules (Egypt, Sudan, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Arabian countries and Iraq). I'm not sure for Libya, whever they use the Italian rules or stick to the English ones given that young Libyans today probably speak more English than Italian.


yeah I understand , meanwhile , my prediction was almost same.Thank you for details.


Hemza said:


> According to my searches, it's the same name that you find in Persian, Arabic, Kurdish and Turkish though I think in Arab countries, it's worn by females and not by males.


thanks for the further details.


Hemza said:


> The person is probably from Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia hence the transliteration has been made using the French system where "ch" is pronounced like Arabic ش (which corresponds to English "sh").


now, I think , all or almost all is complete. 
Thanks again.


----------



## Mahaodeh

Sadda7 said:


> Elie is Elijah in English or إلياس in Arabic, Ayache is عَيَّاشْ, so it's إلِي عياش or إلياس عياش.


إيلي is more likely short for إيليا (like the poet إيليا أبو ماضي).

But if you asked him then he knows his name better.


----------



## Sadda7

Mahaodeh said:


> إيلي is more likely short for إيليا (like the poet إيليا أبو ماضي).


Indeed, Elie Ayache is Lebanese and إيليا is a known name in Lebanon, especially among the Christians. Elie is the just French way of saying Elias/Elijah/إيليا/إلياس

Élie — Wikipédia


----------

