# Future passive



## Andrew___

Hi guys.

May I ask, how do I use the future passive in Arabic?

For example, "This building *will be built* next year".

Many thanks.


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## Mahaodeh

البناية سوف تُبْنَى /ستُبْنَى

For future you use seen / soufa + present tense. This can be active or passive.


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## Abu Bishr

Hi everybody

The phrase, سَيَتِمُّ (sayatimmu) or سوف يتمّ (sawfa yaitimmu) plus the masdar, will bail you out of almost anything, nowadays. It's mostly used formally, though, and in the context of something being planned in a sort of defintive manner rather than being speculated about.


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## Xence

I agree with Abu Bishr.
ستبنى is still indicating a future tense, from the standpoint of present.
سيتم بناؤها  rather indicates a past action from the standpoint of future.


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## elroy

I do not think there is a difference in meaning between the two constructions.  The سيتم form is often used when the "real passive" would sound stilted; when both forms are equally natural, the choice between the two usually depends on style, context, etc.

By the way, this doesn't apply only to the future passive, but to all other tenses as well.  In the present, there's يُبنى and يتم بناء; in the past, there's بُنِيَ and تمَّ بناء.


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## Xence

Hi elroy,

I am speaking about a difference in time standpoints. This difference interests only future tense.
When I say :  غدا سأذهب إلى باريس  that means I am looking at the future action of  ذهاب  out from the present moment, now.
When I say : غدا سيتم ذهابي إلى باريس that means I am looking at that future action out from a posterior time, therefore it's a past action.

I don't know if I made it more clear


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## elroy

I'm not sure I understand your point. 

Your example is problematic for two reasons.  First, سأذهب is not in the passive voice, and second, I would never say سيتم ذهابي as it sounds extremely strange to me.

As for your earlier example - ستُبنى vs. سيتم بناؤها - as I said, to me those two mean the same thing: "it will be built."  Both sentences refer to something that has yet to take place.  I don't know what you mean by "looking at that future action out from a posterior time," and I don't see how a future action can be a past action. 

Now, the _future perfect passive_ does combine future elements with past elements, but that would be "it will have been built" in English and ستكون قد بنيت or سيكون قد تم بناؤها in Arabic.  This tense refers to something that will be a past action/event at some point in the future, but the simple _future passive_, which is what we've been discussing, simply refers to something that will happen in the future.


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## Xence

In my previous post, I tried to explain what I meant by the difference in time standpoints, regardless of the passive idea, and perhaps my example wasn't the best one could give. Just replace سـ by بعدما and ذهاب by رجوع in a sentence like: بعدما يتم رجوعي من باريس 

As for your interrogation 





> I don't see how a future action can be a past action.


 you answered yourself by yourself 


> This tense refers to something that will be a past action/event at some point in the future


 When you have two sucessive events in the future, the first can be considered as past event when related to the second.

Now, what you call "future perfect passive" is probably what I am talking about, and in this case I am not sure there's a great difference between سيتم بناؤها and سيكون قد تم بناؤها .

Thanks though for your nice explanations.


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## elroy

Xence said:


> Just replace سـ by بعدما and ذهاب by رجوع in a sentence like: بعدما يتم رجوعي من باريس


 That's a different context. 


> Now, what you call "future perfect passive" is probably what I am talking about, and in this case I am not sure there's a great difference between سيتم بناؤها and سيكون قد تم بناؤها .


 I think there is a difference: the one between "it will be built" and "it will have been built."

For example,

بعد غد سيتم بناؤها - The day after tomorrow, it will be built.
بعد غد سيكون قد تم بناؤها - The day after tomorrow, it will have been built.

Interesting discussion.


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## WadiH

Honestly, I think one reason the يتمّ + مصدر formula is used in place of the passive voice nowadays is because people worry about the ambiguity between يـَفعل and يـُفعَل in the absence of diacritics.

However, there is a good reason to distinguish between تمّ + مصدر and the regular passive form:

(1) *في سنة 1000 م تمّ بناء القصر الفلاني* : this could be used to indicate that _completion _of the construction ocurred in the year 1000.

(2) *في سنة 1000 م بني القصر الفلاني*: this, on the other hand, could be used to indicate that the entire act of بناء occurred in that year.

Think of the famous hadith بني الإسلام على خمس.  Can you really say that تمّ بناء الإسلام على خمس gives the same meaning?


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## elroy

Wadi Hanifa said:


> (1) *في سنة 1000 م تمّ بناء القصر الفلاني* : this could be used to indicate that _completion _of the construction ocurred in the year 1000.
> 
> (2) *في سنة 1000 م بني القصر الفلاني*: this, on the other hand, could be used to indicate that the entire act of بناء occurred in that year.


 Yes, indeed, تمّ can be used literally - but to avoid any ambiguity (because تمّ can be used to express the passive voice as we have been discussing) I would use a different verb like اكتُمل or انتهى.


> Think of the famous hadith بني الإسلام على خمس. Can you really say that تمّ بناء الإسلام على خمس gives the same meaning?


 I'm not sure what that sentence is about so I can't really comment.


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## WadiH

elroy said:


> Yes, indeed, تمّ can be used literally - but to avoid any ambiguity (because تمّ can be used to express the passive voice as we have been discussing) I would use a different verb like اكتُمل or انتهى.
> I'm not sure what that sentence is about so I can't really comment.


 
Traditionally, authors in Arabic would end their books with the words تم بتوفيق الله كتابة هذا السفر في يوم كذا من شهر كذا or something along those lines.  I think the use of تم as a substitute for the passive voice is a recent innovation, probably due to the orthographic problems I spoke of earlier.

بني الإسلام على خمس means that Islam was built upon five pillars (the creed, prayer, zakat, fasting, and pilgrimage).


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## elroy

I agree that it is probably a recent innovation.

As for the quote about Islam, I would say that بني is better because it's a metaphorical usage, and تمّ بناء would sound too literal.  As I said earlier, context often determines which form works better.  However, I wouldn't say that تمّ بناء (if used to mean "was built") would have a different _meaning_ in modern standard Arabic.


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## ayed

*سوف ينشأ هذا المبنى العام القادم*


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## cherine

The structure سيتم+مصدر or سوف يتم+مصدر is quite modern, I don't think it was that commonly used until 10 years ago or something.

The structure س+الفعل مبني للمجهول is not only correct but also more concise and, in a way, more correct, maybe because of the slight difference in meaning mentioned by some.


Wadi Hanifa said:


> Traditionally, authors in Arabic would end their books with the words تم بتوفيق الله كتابة هذا السفر في يوم كذا من شهر كذا or something along those lines. I think the use of تم as a substitute for the passive voice is a recent innovation, probably due to the orthographic problems I spoke of earlier.


I agree with you about the explanation. Passive form -and many other grammatical points- are getting harder and harder for people not used to write Arabic properly, specially with the declining level of education in many countries 

As for تم كتابة هذا السِفر I believe it means that the author *finished* writing the book, not just that he *wrote* it. So, here again, it's a different meaning.
There's another صيغة for this expression: تم الفراغ من... and I think it confirms the idea that قيد الفراغ (qaydu'l-faraagh) indicates the date it was finished not the date it was written or copied (specially that it took/takes quite some time to write and/or copy a book).


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## WadiH

cherine said:


> As for تم كتابة هذا السِفر I believe it means that the author *finished* writing the book, not just that he *wrote* it. So, here again, it's a different meaning.


 
Yes, I know that.  That was my point.


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## Mahaodeh

I agree with Wadi Hanifa. I know this expression is used very much these days but I don't think it's correct and most of the time it doesn't make sense (like the example of سيتم ذهابي). I personally avoid it unless I want to say that something was finished.


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