# 存在感



## Unvoluntary-account

Good morning everyone!

I'm trying to translate a film (Send me to the Clouds), and I've got a doubt on the quality of translation of a few lines.

The Chinese subtitles are the following:





The English version translates these ones above as follows:

People once fawned over his calligraphy. But now He keeps asking me for my autograph to grace his portfolio. He needs validation.

I've got doubts especially on "fawned over" (which I've never heard before), then the structure of the second sentence sounds a bit off in English, and I'm not sure about _portfolio_, as it should be something that doesn't have a material consistency, and thus it can't be signed (as far as I'm aware), and as of the last sentence I can't figure out the meaning of "validation".

All I ask you is to check if the Chinese>English translation provided is OK, and if it's not I would be really grateful if you could correct it.

Thank you in advance!


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## Skatinginbc

Unvoluntary-account said:


> I can't figure out the meaning of "validation".


Although there are many--too many--problems in the English translation you provided, "validation" is actually the least problematic of all.
(存在) *感 *in this context indeed carries the sense of "_*validation*_ (of self-existence)", that is, _*recognition*_ or _*affirmation*_ (of self-existence). The original Chinese sentence indeed conveys the idea that "he" (whom the speaker is talking about) is now ironically looking for external validation of his own existence.


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## Unvoluntary-account

Skatinginbc said:


> Although there are many--too many--problems in the English translation you provided, "validation" is actually the least problematic of all.
> (存在) *感 *in this context indeed carries the sense of "_*validation*_ (of self-existence)", that is, _*recognition*_ or _*affirmation*_ (of self-existence). The original Chinese sentence indeed conveys the idea that "he" (whom the speaker is talking about) is now ironically looking for external validation of his own existence.



Thank you for answering, I appreciate your explaination!

As of the rest of the translation, does it need to be completely changed? The subtitles aren't mine, but I'm translating them and I would like to do it the best way possible.

Thank you again!


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## Skatinginbc

我这个外孙子 is ambiguous.  It could be (1) 我的这个外孙子 "_this grandson of mine_", or (2) 我, 他的这个外孙子 "_me, this grandson of his_" (In other words, "he" is "my" maternal grandfather). As a result, the rest of the sentence is ambiguous as well. I am not able to decipher the "_he_" that owns the "作业本" ("他的作业本" ==> "他" 指谁?) and the person that would autograph it ("在他的作业本上签名" ==> 谁签名?). In order to comprehend the whole utterance and to help you with the translation, more context is needed. At least, we need to know the relationship between "我" (the speaker) and "他" (the topic of the discourse).


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## Unvoluntary-account

I see, if I had to make the hardest guess in my entire life, around 40 minutes later in the film it's shown that his grandfather has dedicated his life to calligraphy, so it's probably the grandfather he's talking about. I can't be sure 100% though, cause those above are all the subtitles in the entire scene, and there's nothing related nor before, nor after.


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## Skatinginbc

Unvoluntary-account said:


> it's probably the grandfather he's talking about.


That goes against my intuition.
OK, supposing "他" (the discourse topic) is a grandpa, how could he have a "作业本" (workbook, exercise book or assignment book for students; 学生的练习本和通常辅助教材的练习册)?  Isn't he too old to be still in school?  Therefore, "作业本" must have a special reference mentioned in the prior discourse.  I haven't watched the film, so I don't know what it actually refers to.

Furthermore, supposing the grandpa _does_ have a "作业本", how would his grandson's autograph validate his self-worth and self-existence? Is the "grandson" or "我" a high achiever (e.g., socially prominent, economically successful) whom the grandpa is very proud of?


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## Unvoluntary-account

Skatinginbc said:


> That goes against my intuition.
> OK, supposing "他" (the discourse topic) is a grandpa, how could he have a "作业本" (workbook, exercise book or assignment book for students; 学生的练习本和通常辅助教材的练习册)?  Isn't he too old to be still in school?  Therefore, "作业本" must have a special reference mentioned in the prior discourse.  I need to know what "作业本" actually refers to before I can make sense of the whole utterance.



Well, the grandson in the film is already in his 30s, maybe even older, and he's an entrepreneuer, so for sure he doesn't go to school. 

As I said, the whole sentence is pronounced "out of the blue", if you want I can upload the entire scene and send it to you privately, but I'm not sure that it would help.


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## Skatinginbc

Unvoluntary-account said:


> the grandson in the film is already in his 30s, maybe even older, and he's an entrepreneuer


Starting to make sense:

Nobody asks for him any more.  People used to chase after him for his autographs, but now he is chasing after me, this (successful) grandson of his, to autograph his "_workbook_(_s_)_" _(I guess it is some old workbook(s) he once used when he was young) as validation of his worthy existence in the world.


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## Unvoluntary-account

Skatinginbc said:


> Starting to make sense:
> 
> Nobody asks for him any more.  People used to chase after him for his autographs, but now he is chasing after me, this (successful) grandson of his, to autograph his "_workbook_(_s_)_" _(I guess it is some old workbook(s) he once used when he was young) as validation of his worthy existence in the world.



Thank you very much, it makes much more sense now!


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## retrogradedwithwind

《送我上青云》这部电影是吧？刚瞄了几眼，里面的英语翻译没几句完全没毛病的。

那段字幕出现在第几分钟？我去看看。


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## Skatinginbc

Perhaps "要在他的作業本上簽名" means "要我在他的字册 or 書畫册上簽名." (to have me autograph an album of his calligraphy)--an album that puts together a collection of his calligraphy works.  By saying "作業本" (student workbook) instead of "字册" (album of calligraphy), the speaker seems to be making light of his grandpa's calligraphy as if to his eyes it resembles kid's scratch art in some aspects (e.g., in importance, in professionalism).  If it turns out to be the case, the word choice "作業本" would actually serve as an important clue to the speaker's opinion of his grandpa's worth of existence--Negative: "現在沒人找他了", 空虛到得"找存在感"--How pitiful!


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## retrogradedwithwind

应该没那么复杂。一般这种情节，就是老人退休了没权没势，没人求写字了。于是只能在儿孙的作业本上签名。大陆这边，小孩子的家庭作业有让父母签名以证明按时按量完成的习惯。


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## Unvoluntary-account

Skatinginbc said:


> Perhaps "要在他的作業本上簽名" means "要我在他的字册 or 書畫册上簽名." (to have me autograph an album of his calligraphy)--an album that puts together a collection of his calligraphy works.  By saying "作業本" (student workbook) instead of "字册" (album of calligraphy), the speaker seems to be making light of his grandpa's calligraphy as if to his eyes it resembles kid's scratch art in some aspects (e.g., in importance, in professionalism).  If it turns out to be the case, the word choice "作業本" would actually serve as an important clue to the speaker's opinion of his grandpa's worth of existence--Negative: "現在沒人找他了", 空虛到得"找存在感"--How pitiful!



That was the solution I adopted for the translation right after your last comment yesterday, I had the intuition that the "workbook" he's referring to might even have been a collection of his calligraphies (the English version translates it as "portfolio", which I initially thought it was a financial portfolio of stocks, as they were talking about markets in the previous scene, now it makes perfectly sense that it's an artist's portfolio).. It's also made clear later that the grandpa not good at doing it anymore after he has suffered from a stroke, so it would make perfect sense that he's basically mocking his grandpa over his ability at calligraphy.



retrogradedwithwind said:


> 《送我上青云》这部电影是吧？刚瞄了几眼，里面的英语翻译没几句完全没毛病的。
> 
> 那段字幕出现在第几分钟？我去看看。



Yes, the film is Send me to the Clouds. There are a bunch of subtitles that were a bit ambiguous for someone who doesn't speak Chinese and has to rely only on the English version. I've figured out most of them, let's say that now I'm missing only one.


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## Skatinginbc

retrogradedwithwind said:


> 在儿孙的作业本上签名


That was my intuition as well.  誰的作業本?  兒孫的作業本.  誰簽名? 長輩簽名.  I expected to see 他追著我這個外孫子, 要在*我* (as opposed to *他* in the Chinese subtitles) 的作業本上簽名. But that does not seem to be the case according to the Chinese subtitles.


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## retrogradedwithwind

Skatinginbc said:


> That was my intuition as well.  誰的作業本?  兒孫的作業本.  誰簽名? 長輩簽名.  I expected to see 他追著我這個外孫子, 要在*我* (as opposed to *他* in the Chinese subtitles) 的作業本上簽名. But that does not seem to be the case according to the Chinese subtitles.


字幕打错了也不是不可能。这里的人物关系比较难理解，所以我觉得还是看下电影才能确定。


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