# Yesterday I ate/had bread



## Lupen The Third

Hello everybody! It's me again!

I got a little question : Is it true that verbs do not have forms for the past as well as for the future tense?

To say for example "yesterday I had/ate bread", I have to put the word 昨天 which gives the past form of the verb 吃 (to eat).

昨天我吃面包 = Yesterday I ate(had) bread.

Could someone confirm this?

Thanks,
Lupen The Third


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## xiaolijie

> Is it true that verbs do not have forms for the past as well as for the future tense?


Yes, that's true.



> 昨天我吃面包 = Yesterday I ate(had) bread.
> Could someone confirm this?


Yes, the sentence is correct.

However, in appropriate contexts, you may find that a 了 is attached at some position in the sentence to indicate completion, if this is something considered important to convey. The use of 了, however, is not a simple thing to sum up here in a few lines.


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## Lupen The Third

多谢 

Lupen The Third


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## viajero_canjeado

Then how will the sentence be different if I say:

昨天我吃過麵包.


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## Geysere

In fact "昨天我吃面包" sounds really strange and unnatural though it's grammatically correct. I can't imagine saying it in any senario... It just point out that yesterday you performed the act of eating bread. 

"昨天我吃过面包" is also a bit awkward. We can say "昨天我吃了面包" which I think corresponds to both the past tense and present perfect in English. 

"吃过XX" means you have tasted sth. before, without indication of exactly when. It emphasizes on this eating experience. So usually it's not used with words indicating the time like "昨天"


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## viajero_canjeado

Ah, then here's another question. What's the difference between the two following sentences:

我昨天吃麵包了.

and

我昨天吃了麵包.

For some reason the first seems like it would be more natural in spoken situations.


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## Geysere

It's really hard to tell the difference!!!
But maybe (personal feeling):
"我昨天吃XX了"---If XX is something new for me and I just tasted it yesterday, I would prefer to use this sentence to inform my friend.
"我昨天吃了XX"---More likely a response to "昨天吃什么了?"


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## Teach & Learn

viajero_canjeado said:


> Ah, then here's another question. What's the difference between the two following sentences:
> 
> 我昨天吃麵包了.
> 
> and
> 
> 我昨天吃了麵包.
> 
> For some reason the first seems like it would be more natural in spoken situations.



"了" follows the part which you want to emphasize:

Sentence 1: the object, which is "mian bao".

Sentence 2 : the verb "吃".


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## viajero_canjeado

Hmm, I'm intrigued because you answered "昨天吃什麼了?", a sentence which puts 了 at the end, with "我昨天吃了麵包," which in turn does *not* place the 了 at the end. It's just curious to me is all. Why wasn't the original question stated "昨天吃了什麼?"


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## Geysere

You are right, "昨天吃什么了?" and "昨天吃了什么?" have essentially no difference in meaning but with 了 at the end it's somehow more "comfortable", so the first sentence is more frequently heard.


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## Geysere

Honestly the difference between the two structures is too subtle that I cannot confidently tell. Wait until someone else comments


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## Teach & Learn

I was explaining it in a grammatical sense, because there is no difference during daily conversations at all.


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## viajero_canjeado

With that in mind, Teach and Learn, might one explain the difference between the two in the following fashion?

我昨天吃了麵包 - An answer to 昨天吃了嗎? The response means, "Yes I ate! And it was bread." The bread is less important than the event that you did in fact eat.

我昨天吃麵包了 - An answer to the question 昨天吃什麼了? In this instance it's assumed within the question that you ate something, only as yet it's unclear just what that something was.

這樣合理嗎?


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## Teach & Learn

我昨天吃麵包了--> What did you eat yesterday?

我昨天吃了麵包--> What did you do with the bread yesterday? (A bit "extreme" in the translation, but this is an easier way to get it through, I think.)


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## Geysere

昨天吃了吗? --- 吃了,吃的是面包
昨天吃什么了? --- 吃了面包/吃面包了
昨天 and 我 are both omitted if I'm answering questions. That's why I feel uncomfortable with "我昨天吃了面包" & "我昨天吃面包了". Hard to imagine the context...

"What did you do with the bread yesterday?" I think the answer would probably be "我把它吃了"


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## viajero_canjeado

好複雜! I see what you mean about leaving out the 我; I guess as an English-speaker I'm accustomed to including a subject in writing.


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## Teach & Learn

Geysere said:


> "What did you do with the bread yesterday?" I think the answer would probably be "我把它吃了"



There you go-- As I explained earlier, the emphasis is on the verb in this case.

_"了" follows the part which you want to emphasize:_

_ Sentence 1: the object, which is "mian bao"._

_ Sentence 2 : the verb "吃"._

Note: It's not that complicated in spoken form, because there is a stress on the part which the speaker finds important.​


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## Lupen The Third

Thank you very much for the answeres!! 
Lupen The third


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## philosophia85

I don't think 我昨天吃了麵包 is trying to emphasis 吃.  Rather, I think verb+了 is used to indicated past/perfect tense.


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## Teach & Learn

philosophia85 said:


> I don't think 我昨天吃了麵包 is trying to emphasis 吃.  Rather, I think verb+了 is used to indicated past/perfect tense.



"了" is a mark of past or perfect tense, and that is acknowledged already since #3 in this thread. If this is still not very clear, please go back to #6 post.


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## BODYholic

philosophia85 said:


> I don't think 我昨天吃了麵包 is trying to emphasis 吃.  Rather, I think verb+了 is used to indicated past/perfect tense.


The word "昨天" is an obvious indicator that the action of 吃 is a past event. Hence, 了is pretty much redundant here. BUT it serves another purpose, in additional to what you already know.

These 2 sentences have the exact same meaning but the position of 了causes the emphasis to be different.
我昨天*吃了*麵包.
我昨天吃*麵包了*.

There were was a similar discussion in the recent past. Unfortunately, I realize that many China native speakers do not see this. Well, I guess this is something regional.


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## samanthalee

BODYholic said:


> These 2 sentences have the exact same meaning but the position of 了causes the emphasis to be different.
> 我昨天*吃了*麵包.
> 我昨天吃*麵包了*.



I agree with BODYholic on this; perhaps because BODYholic and I are from the same region. The difference is in the emphasis and is similar to the difference between:
a) I ate bread yesterday.
b) I have eaten bread yesterday.


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## Geysere

Just one more thing, if you're listing out what you have eaten yesterday(more than one item), only the first structure is used:
我昨天吃了面包,鸡蛋,饼干和苹果.


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## viajero_canjeado

Samanthalee,

Probably it's a silly question, but just to be sure:  The preterite corresponds better to the sentence with the particle directly after the verb (example sentence #1) and the present perfect would be represented by the sentence with the particle at the end (ex. sentence #2), isn't that right?

Thanks for the clarification!


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## samanthalee

viajero_canjeado said:


> Samanthalee,
> 
> Probably it's a silly question, but just to be sure:  The preterite corresponds better to the sentence with the particle directly after the verb (example sentence #1) and the present perfect would be represented by the sentence with the particle at the end (ex. sentence #2), isn't that right?
> 
> Thanks for the clarification!


It's not a silly question.  It's my fault I didn't make things clear. 

Yes, you are right; I believe the present perfect "have eaten bread" corresponds to “昨天吃麵包了”, while the preterite "ate bread" corresponds to “昨天吃了麵包”.

But BODYholic and I seems to be the only ones who see the distinction, so maybe this is a regional quirk.


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## BODYholic

I think we are not alone. Or perhaps Teach & Learn is not from China. 


Teach & Learn said:


> There you go-- As I explained earlier, the emphasis is on the verb in this case.
> 
> _"了" follows the part which you want to emphasize:_
> 
> _ Sentence 1: the object, which is "mian bao"._
> 
> _ Sentence 2 : the verb "吃"._
> 
> Note: It's not that complicated in spoken form, because there is a stress on the part which the speaker finds important.​


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## Flaminius

samanthalee said:


> The difference is in the emphasis and is similar to the difference between:
> a) I ate bread yesterday.
> b) I have eaten bread yesterday.


Maybe you could explain what the difference is between *a* and *b*?  For all I know, one cannot use the perfect tense (ahem, it is an aspect to be accurate but somehow it is called a tense in the ESL parlance) with a reference to a point in time (yesterday, in 2008, last Saturday, etc.).  To me, *b* is just an ungrammatical sentence meaning  *a*.


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