# faith / belief



## ThomasK

What would be your translation of _belief _vs. _faith _? And what is the most specific religious word, if I can put it that way? 

Dutch: _geloof _(believe in [God, ...] versus _vertrouwen _(relying on)

I think there is some ambiguity here and that is in part also what I would like to try to find out. Believing seems fairly rational, kind of knowing,faith seems more like emotional, trust.


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

*to believe* : inan (<*ɨĺan- / *iĺen-), (<*ɨna-)  Example:
Tanrı'ya inanmak: To believe in the God. / Bana inan: Believe me

It also means to trust together with "güven".

*faith* : iman (Arabic loan). The Turkic equivalent *büt- no longer exists in Turkish.

*to know*: bil ...  I think the verb bil (to know) is related with *büt- (to have faith)


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## arielipi

Hebrew has one word:
אמונה emuna, root א-מ-נ '-m-n


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## apmoy70

In Greek:


Faith, religious faith: *«Πίστη»* ['pisti] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«πίστις» pístis* --> _faith, trust, authentication, assurance_ (PIE *bʰidʰ-, _to convince, trust_ cf Lat. fidere, _to trust, rely upon_ > It. fidare, Fr. fier, Por./Sp. fiar; Proto-Germanic *bīdaną, _to wait_ > Eng. bide, Isl. bíða, Swe. bida, D./Nor. bie; OCS бѣда, _need, necessity_ > Rus. беда, BCS/Slo. beda/беда).


Trust: *«Εμπιστοσύνη»* [embisto'sini] (fem.) < Byz. Gr. Fem. noun *«ἐμπιστοσύνη» empistosýnē* < Classical v. *«ἐμπιστεύω» ĕmpĭsteúō* --> _to entrust_ < compound; prefix, preposition and adverb *«ἐν» ĕn* --> _in, within_ (PIE *h₁en-, _in_ cf Lat. in > It. in, Fr./Sp. en, Por. em, Rom. în; Proto-Germanic *in > Ger. in, Eng. in, Dt. in, Isl. í, D./Nor./Swe. i) + Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«πίστις» pístis* (see above).


Belief: 
1/ *«Πεποίθηση»* [pe'piθisi] (fem.) < Hellenistic Koine 3rd declension fem. noun *«πεποίθησις» pĕpoítʰēsis* --> _trust, convinction, belief_ < from the perfect form *«πέποιθα» pépoitʰă* of the deponent verb *«πείθομαι» peítʰŏmai* --> _to trust, rely, obey, be persuaded_ (cognate of *«πίστις» pístis*).


2/ *«Δοξασία»* [ðoksa'si.a] (fem.) < Hellenistic Koine fem. noun *«δοξασίᾱ» dŏksăsíā* --> _opinion_ < Classical v. *«δοκέω/δοκῶ» dŏkéō* (uncontracted)*/dŏkô* (contracted) --> _to seem, be of the opinion_ (PIE *deḱ-, _to take, accept_ cf Skt. दासति (dAsati), _to give_; Lat. docēre, _to instruct, inform, teach_).


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## Ífaradà

*Yoruba

*Faith/belief (noun) - *Ìgbàgbọ́*
Believe (verb) - *G**bàgbọ́*
Trust​ (noun) - *Ìgbẹ́kẹ̀lé
*Trust (verb)* - G**bẹ́kẹ̀lé*


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## ThomasK

So I understand there is no inherent link in Yoruba between belief and faith, they are considered to be  quite separate? 

Hebrew then has one word for both, then, which is somehow amazing to me: can you then say, Arielipi:_ I _emuna _that it is going to rain_? 

Greek then has four different terms, so I notice. I think I can understand, but I cannot go into those meanings now. 

Does Turkish have one root /ima-/ for both, with only some kind of different ending?


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## ahmedcowon

*In Arabic:*

*faith:*
إيمان /'imān/ (root _'-m-n_)

*belief:*
اعتقاد /iʕtiqād/ (root _ʕ-q-d_)

*belief/doctrine/dogma:*
عقيدة /ʕaqeedah/
معتقد /muʕtaqad/


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## ancalimon

Turkish inan (believe) is Turkic in origin. But iman (faith) is Arabic origin. As far as we know, the similarity is just a coincidence.


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## arielipi

ThomasK said:


> Hebrew then has one word for both, then, which is somehow amazing to me: can you then say, Arielipi:_ I _emuna _that it is going to rain_?


ma'amin (which is the correct verb form in this case) but yes, precisely put.


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## Encolpius

geloof -- Hungarian hit -- Czech víra
vertrouwen -- Hungarian bizalom -- Czech důvěra


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## simoshred

There are a little difference between faith and belief i'll give some examples to help you understand :

Belief : your belief depends on your trust in god existance ,   

But

Faith : is how you belief in god , for example if someone wants to suicide you can tell him : don't lose faith    , but if he is not even a believer you can't talk about faith .

That's it  hope you understand my english


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## ThomasK

My explanation would be different, at least to some extent, Simoshred, and the theological distinction  would be slightly different too, I suppose: belief (dogms, 'assumptions') vs. faith (more like relation, trust). Mind you: this is not a theological issue, that is just one aspect..  

It is quite interesting to see that one language has the same root for both, whereas others like Greek have four diffferent roots. 

EXTRA CHECK: Can you all use your *belief/ -ve w*ord in a sentence like 'I believe that ...' ? If you have different verbs, can you use more with about the same meaning at that place?


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## arielipi

ThomasK said:


> EXTRA CHECK: Can you all use your *belief/ -ve w*ord in a sentence like 'I believe that ...' ? If you have different verbs, can you use more with about the same meaning at that place?


Yes.


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## ThomasK

A lLithuanian friend informed me that in Lithuanina there is 
- 'tikėjimas', believe 
 - 'pasitikėjimas' , faith or trust

EXTRA CHECKs: 
- Can you all use your *belief/ -ve w*ord in a sentence like 'I believe that ...' ? If you have different verbs, can you use more with about the same meaning at that place? 
- I have been wondering whether 'faith' and 'trust' would be the same for you, in your language. I had been thinking 'trust' might be more relational...


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## arielipi

ThomasK said:


> EXTRA CHECKs:
> - Can you all use your *belief/ -ve w*ord in a sentence like 'I believe that ...' ? If you have different verbs, can you use more with about the same meaning at that place?
> - I have been wondering whether 'faith' and 'trust' would be the same for you, in your language. I had been thinking 'trust' might be more relational...


yes and partly yes, trust is from the same root but we have another root that is more equivalent to 'safe' (as in a safe with combinations, lock, chest etc etc)
בטח b/v-t-kh
i trust you
אני בוטח בך ani bote'akh becha i trust you
יש לי אמון בך yesh li emun becha i have faith (trust) in you


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## ThomasK

Could you make the difference clear by presenting two sentences where you cannot replace one by the other (and some where you can???)?


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## arielipi

i believe (in god) you can use א-מ-נ but not ב-ט-ח
a safe place you can use ב-ט-ח but not א-מ-נ
when talking about trust you can use both


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## Ífaradà

ThomasK said:


> So I understand there is no inherent link in Yoruba between belief and faith, they are considered to be  quite separate?


Yes.
Well, to shed some light over this subject in Yoruba and Norwegian.
Literal translations.

Mo *rò *pé òjò yóò wá - I think rain will come.
Jeg *tror *det kommer til å regne - I believe it'll start raining.


Mo *ní ìgbẹ́kẹ̀lé* nínú Olúwa - I have faith in the Lord
Jeg *har tro* til Herren - I have faith in the Lord.


Mo *gbàgbọ́ *pé Jẹ́sù ni ọba àwọn ọba - I believe Jesus is the king of kings.
Jeg *tror *på at Jesus er kongen over alle konger - I believe that Jesus is the king of kings.

Very different languages, but still quite interesting to see such differences.


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## Tjahzi

*Swedish *lacks a word for _faith_ (or _to pray_, for that matter).


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## ThomasK

@Tjahzi: isn't there something like _be _(and _bön_) for 'to pray' (and 'prayer')?  ---  As for faith: isn't _tro _a possible translation?  

@Ifarada: that *tro *(in which I recognize Dutch 'trouw', i.e., loyalty, 'faithfulness') will be related to *'true' *and *'truth'*, and then to (etymonline.org): 


> PIE *drew-o-, a suffixed form of the root *deru-/*dreu- "be firm, solid, steadfast"


I'd love to explore such links, but I won't do that here, rest assured!


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> ...
> EXTRA CHECKs:
> - Can you all use your *belief/ -ve w*ord in a sentence like 'I believe that ...' ? If you have different verbs, can you use more with about the same meaning at that place?
> - I have been wondering whether 'faith' and 'trust' would be the same for you, in your language. I had been thinking 'trust' might be more relational...


Former:
Yes we can, the verb is *«πιστεύω»* [pi'stevo] < Classical v. *«πιστεύω» pĭsteúō* < Classical 3rd declension fem. noun *«πίστις» pístis* (see my previous post).
Also periphrastically *«έχω την πεποίθηση»* ['exo tim͡ be'piθisi] --> _I have the belief.._.
Latter:
In the Classical language the noun was *«πίστις» pístis* for both. In the Modern language we mostly use *«πίστη»* ['pisti] for faith, and *«εμπιστοσύνη»* [embisto'sini] for trust (or better, for entrustment which -I agree- presupposes personal relationship, you charge someone with trust). Both nouns are cognates (see my previous post).


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## ThomasK

In the meantime I was informed that in French *foi *(faith) is way more common than *croyance *(belief), which can even have a negative meaning or at least connotation, whereas the verb is _croire_, not _(se) confier_, or something the like, which only refer to trust... Oh, things can be so complicated...


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## Tjahzi

ThomasK said:


> @Tjahzi: isn't there something like _be _(and _bön_) for 'to pray' (and 'prayer')?  ---  As for faith: isn't _tro _a possible translation?


_Pray _is indeed normally translated to _be_, however, so is _beg _and _ask (request)_. 

Similarly, _tro_ covers the meanings of both _belief _and _faith_. (Technically, it's the noun derived from _believe_.)


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## ThomasK

Now I see. However, *tro *is more important. So no special word for believing, whereas I do not think English would consider 'I trust that is ...' as synonymous with 'I believe', but of course that does not mean anything as such...


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## AutumnOwl

ThomasK said:


> 'I trust that is ...' as synonymous with 'I believe'


I wouldn't say that "I trust that..." and "I believe that..." is entirely the same in Swedish, the first one would be "_Jag litar på att..."_ while the other would be _"Jag tror att..."_, for me the first one is stronger, while the other there is a "well, I belive, but I'm not entirely certain" feeling in it. When it comes to faith, there is _"ha tillit till gud"_ which can be said to be stronger than _"att tro på gud"_.


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