# Religious Holidays in secular states



## Kajjo

The idea to this thread came after reading this contribution:


luis masci said:


> Don’t you see the above as a rather hypocrite behavior? [...] In my opinion, people who are not religious shouldn’t take [Easter] off.


I disagree completely. But one could actually argue that it appears anachronistically to "celebrate" holidays which meaning is for most people reduced to have some nice days off.

* In a secular state, do you think it is valid to favor the predominant religion by having nationwide religious holidays, on which nobody is allowed to work, and to force members of minority religions to work on their respective holidays?*

* What do you think about the following idea:* Each person can freely declare a _specific number_ of days as his personal holidays. He has to do so before the new year starts to clearly distinguish his holidays from pure vacation. This way, Christians, Jews, Moslems, Atheists and so on can freely and equally declare their holidays on an individual and personal basis and enjoy their own celebrations, traditions and recreations.

I expect two things: First, in Europe and America there will be some holidays like Christmas booked by almost everyone (except Jews and Moslems) for religious or traditional reasons -- no harm done anyway, because not much changed. Secondly, there will be some holidays for which no one really cares anyway and which thus will be no longer celebrated by the majority of people. An interesting wake-up for the Church, but no harm to those who did book these holidays. What a perspective for freedom of religion!

The positive by-product would be that besides Christmas and probably Easter all companies could work everyday, since there would always be some people willing to work.

Kajjo


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## maxiogee

Kajjo said:


> * What do you think about the following idea:* Each person can freely declare a _specific number_ of days as his personal holidays. He has to do so before the new year starts to clearly distinguish his holidays from pure vacation. This way, Christians, Jews, Moslems, Atheists and so on can freely and equally declare their holidays on an individual and personal basis and enjoy their own celebrations, traditions and recreations.



You obviously have never tried to manage personnel, Kajjo.  Businesses cannot deal easily with people not fitting in with the rest of the team's schedule.

Businesses don't only have to deal with staff taking personal preferences for holidays, but they like to tie in with state holidays also. Stores pick up huge profits when public holidays occur and they can tie in  promotions with that and shift huge amounts of stock.
If the customers were to be deciding when they would have their own free time the stores would lose those big-selling days.

As it is, in many countries the holidays are only loosely associated with religion and they tend to have become spread out across the calendar.

I'm sorry, but on so many levels I think you would have huge problems getting this accepted in many countries.


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## Kajjo

maxiogee said:


> Stores pick up huge profits when public holidays occur and they can tie in  promotions with that and shift huge amounts of stock.


You are right, of course. First at all, the idea is addressing freedom of religion and overcoming anachronistic preferences for religion in secular states. Economic factors were not my first goal when writing that quite unrealistic (no question!) idea. 



> If the customers were to be deciding when they would have their own free time the stores would lose those big-selling days.


I do not think that Christmas or Easter sales would be much smaller because the majority still would like to celebrate that two holidays in traditional ways (even if only in sweets, bunnies and superficial stuff like now). At least in Germany we do not have other holidays that do increase store profits significantly.



> I'm sorry, but on so many levels I think you would have huge problems getting this accepted in many countries.


Sure. No doubt!

Kajjo


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## luis masci

Well I’m going to repeat part of what I said in the other thread.
I’ve seen for instance in my country, Jews close their stores and take the day off when they have any celebration like Pesah or any other one. So it is perfectly possible a holiday only for those who celebrate it. 
But my point is… I see unfair governments “marrying” with some particular religion, 
because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens, so choosing some religion is a sort of discriminative for everyone else who is not into it. 
So in my opinion shouldn’t be official holidays for religion motivations.


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## Brioche

In Australia, Christmas and Easter are the only public holidays with a religious connexion.  

We have Christmas Day and Boxing Day (26th December) as holidays, 
and Good Friday + Easter Monday as holidays, so most people get 4 days off.

Australians are not very religious people, but any politician who suggested abolishing either holiday would be lynched.


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## lizzeymac

In America, Christmas is the only national holiday with a religious connection.  There are only 10 national holidays.  Schools have a Winter Break that starts before Christmas & ends after New Year's.  Public schools observe the national holidays.  Private schools may celebrate whatever holidays they wish.


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## .   1

Brioche said:


> Australians are not very religious people, but any politician who suggested abolishing either holiday would be lynched.


The holidays are not religious, they are to do with managing people on a large scale.
Christmas and Easter are, for the vast majority of Australians, not religious at all. 
Christmas is the traditional time to tell Aunt Jane how you still feel bent out of shape because of that thing in 1984 and then watch the domestics develop as relatives who do not mix for the rest of the year remember why that's the case.
Easter is a time for mainlining chocolate.
The only religious connection for me is to watch the same sallow faces moan at me for not bending my knee to whatever they want me to be beaten down for.
A holiday is a day off work.

.,,


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## jinti

Kajjo said:


> *What do you think about the following idea:* Each person can freely declare a _specific number_ of days as his personal holidays.


 
Actually, we have something similar where I work.  The only religious holiday we all have off is Christmas Day.  However, each of us has 4 "unscheduled holidays" per year which we can use as we see fit, and many people use them for their own religious holidays.  This way, we don't have to use up our sick leave or vacation time to observe our holy days, and (aside from December 25th), we don't have to shut down on someone else's holy days.....


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## vachecow

. said:


> A holiday is a day off work.
> .,,


My thoughts exactly.  I know this is going to sound lazy and arrogant, but I don't really care what the reason is if they give me a day off of work.  If the US decided to declare that every year no one would go to work on Zeus's birthday, I wouldn't complain.


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## .   1

Very few people in Australia have any idea of the reason for our holidays.
We don't understand Christmas.  It has become all about maxing out the credit cards on useless presents or stupidly mathematically impossible lottery tickets as gifts and eating far too much food and committing more random acts of violence and self harm than on any other day of the year.
Traffic accidents peak at Christmas.
Domestic arguments accidents peak at Christmas.
Suicides accidents peak at Christmas.
Drunken public brawls accidents peak at Christmas.
General mayhem accidents peaks at Christmas.

People now celebrate Easter as nothing but joy and gorging chocolate and have no idea of the symbolic reference to the ancient fertility rites that the Catholics stole from pagans.
Why do you think that rabbits and eggs are the symbols of Easter.

Australia has no other even remotely religious holidays but we are all pretty much just as mystified about the significance of any of them other than they are a good excuse for a barby.

.,,


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## übermönch

As, yes, the topic has been mentionned several times already. I live in Germany and I rather dislike the dominant role of christianity, aside from the holidays the government collects taxes for the church and includes protestantism and catholicism lessons in state schools. I hate the tolerance towards the christian fundamentalist constitution of one of our bundeslaender, but FRG is certainly not a secular state; neither is USA, thus it is not the topic of this thread, the topic are countries like France, Turkey or the Netherlands which being aparently secular still have holidays dictated by various god-given laws. 

Ideally holidays would be chosen by the workers, unfortunately it, however, it is hardly possible for logistic reason. That is what national holidays are for. In the early USSR all religious holidays were replaced by secular ones, the old Christian Orthodox calendar was also replaced. The most important Soviet holiday was the New Year's Eve - you could say it was the Soviet Christmas - with atheists, muslims and all others having absolutely no problems with celebrating it. Even though the current ignorant government enforced Christian Christmas upon the people again, the St.Claus is still called "Father Frost" and he, with his emancipated female partner "Snowey" , still gives presents on the New Years Eve, under a tree without any religious symbols, but with a star crowning it. Time has shown - the Soviet solution was here the best possible. Sedr Peysakh!


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## vachecow

übermönch said:


> FRG is certainly not a secular state; neither is USA, thus it is not the topic of this thread


Thats a very good point.  I believe that several of the US's leaders want people to believe that it is a secular country, but anyone who has seen our pledge or several other of out greatest historical documents can tell otherwise.


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## Outsider

übermönch said:


> [...] but FRG is certainly not a secular state; neither is USA, thus it is not the topic of this thread, the topic are countries like France, Turkey or the Netherlands which being aparently secular still have holidays dictated by various god-given laws.


I don't think I agree with you. The U.S.A. seems to me a remarkably secular state, moreso than most European countries. What confuses us abroad is that it's also a remarkably _democratic_ country, so the religiosity of most of its people has a big influence on politics.

As for the issue of religious holidays in secular states, if we're going to have holidays of any sort -- and I'm certainly not opposed to them -- why not on dates which are meaningful to the predominant religion(s) of the land? Citizens are not obliged to observe those dates in a religious manner.


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## lizzeymac

I hope this doesn't offend someone -
"Secular" & "secular state" as used in Europe confuse me. It seems to be _anti_-religious rather than neutral, & to _prevent_ some aspects of practicing one's religion. This appears to be oppressive & undemocratic - these are not attitudes I associate with Europe. 
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, it should read up on it, I guess.


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## maxiogee

lizzeymac said:


> I hope this doesn't offend someone -
> "Secular" & "secular state" as used in Europe confuse me. It seems to be _anti_-religious rather than neutral, & to _prevent_ some aspects of practicing one's religion. This appears to be oppressive & undemocratic - these are not attitudes I associate with Europe.
> Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, it should read up on it, I guess.


 
Interesting point.
Could you give us some concrete examples where a state prevents someone from *practising* their religion (as against _following some customs_ associated with that practice).
To me religion should be a private matter.
Public worship should be confined to the faithful and need not intrude on anyone else's life.


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## Veggy

I wanted to ask lizzeymac what she meant by anti-religious but I see maxiogee already did. So I'll ask what would you call a state that is not a  theocracy? (I think is the right word for a religious government).
Personnally, I think that religious holidays are not religious anymore for many many people. A long time ago, I tried asking people what Christmas meant for them, why there was the habit of buying presents on Christmas day -in Italy we have as holiday the 6th of january in which children get many gifts-, why did they think a chocolate egg was the symbol of Easter and why the rule of the Church prohibited to eat meat on the Friday before Easter. Most of the answers were "I don't know" When I asked if they would be interested in knowing, they just were not. They enjoyed the holiday, they liked running in shops to buy and just buy, they enjoyed the food of the holidays and that was it.
So, what is left?


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## Outsider

> *secular
> *
> 1 a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> *b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>*
> 2 : not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically : of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation <a secular priest>
> 3 a : occurring once in an age or a century b : existing or continuing through ages or centuries c : of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration <secular inflation>
> 
> Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary


Definitions 1b and 1c seems to apply...


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## JamesM

Outsider said:


> I don't think I agree with you. The U.S.A. seems to me a remarkably secular state, moreso than most European countries. What confuses us abroad is that it's also a remarkably _democratic_ country, so the religiosity of most of its people has a big influence on politics.
> 
> As for the issue of religious holidays in secular states, if we're going to have holidays of any sort -- and I'm certainly not opposed to them -- why not on dates which are meaningful to the predominant religion(s) of the land? Citizens are not obliged to observe those dates in a religious manner.


 
Interesting observation, Outsider.

We have an interesting trend with our national holidays here. They have almost all been moved to Fridays or Mondays. As a child, we celebrated Washington's birthday and Lincoln's birthday as two separate national holidays on whatever day they fell. Somewhere along the line, they got merged into "Presidents Day" and moved to a Monday. This was a loss... of one extra day off work or school.  

As for religious national holidays, the only one that I can think of is Christmas. Although Thanksgiving has connotations of religion (being thankful to God), I don't think it necessarily carries that meaning for many Americans. 

When I was growing up, it was common for businesses to take Good Friday off from noon onwards (the Friday before Easter.) This is no longer the case, although you can still take personal time. The children are in classes all day, at least where I live.

We don't have the wealth of holidays that most European countries have. We're actually pretty stingy with our holidays.  

On a side note, our local school district schedules their "off" days for school in alignment with the Jewish religious holiday calendar. This is only secondarily because they are Jewish holidays; the primary reason is that our school funding is based on daily school attendance and a sufficient number of Jewish people in our community celebrate these holidays to cause a dip in attendance that is costly to the school district. They don't lose funding for "off" days, only for scheduled school days, so they schedule the days off to match the Jewish holiday calendar to avoid funding losses.

I imagine this is an unintended consequence of the funding policies, strangely causing a link between religious holidays and school "off" days.


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## lizzeymac

maxiogee said:


> Interesting point.
> Could you give us some concrete examples where a state prevents someone from *practising* their religion (as against _following some customs_ associated with that practice).
> To me religion should be a private matter.
> Public worship should be confined to the faithful and need not intrude on anyone else's life.



I am aware of that until recently organized religions in Europe controlled people's lives to an unacceptable extent & I assume that one of the reasons that the secular state (like France,Turkey) exists is to prevent this from happening.  What confuses me is the strong negative response to things like a person wearing a symbol of their religion, like a cross, yarmulke, a headscarf.  This doesn't seem to be an action that would infringe on a non-religious person's rights - like prayer in school or public funding of religions or favoring one religion's holiday over another - it seems "personal."  I suppose whether or not this is a "custom" or a strict tenet of a religion is a question. I'm not trying to be argumentative, this just seems conservative & I think of Europe as being more liberal than America.  I think this area is probably off topic for this thread.


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## alexacohen

Hello:


> My thoughts exactly. I know this is going to sound lazy and arrogant, but I don't really care what the reason is if they give me a day off of work. If the US decided to declare that every year no one would go to work on Zeus's birthday, I wouldn't complain.


We have a whole lot of religious holidays here in Spain. All Roman Catholic. Christmas, Easter, Saint Something or other. Being a Jew, they don't mean anything to me. But they are welcome. No one is forcing me to behave like a Christian on those days, they are just days off... and paid!
I wouldn't mind having some more Saint Something or other days off.
Alexa


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## .   1

alexacohen said:


> I wouldn't mind having some more Saint Something or other days off.


Some benefits do flow from the religious to the wider community.

.,,


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## Miguelillo 87

*Moderator note:*
*This post was a begining of a new thread. I've merged it to this previous one for consistency and to prevent repetitions, and deleted the first questions that are now off-topic, specially that they didn't receive answers anyway.*
*Please read the older posts before posting.*
*Thanks.*


For example here in Mexico the only day which came across to my mind is Christmas, (Decemeber 25th) whic we celebrate the birth of Jesus and is observed in the Federal Labour Law as a holiday. So we don't go to worh this day.

Another day is Día de la Guadalupana (Our Lady of Guadalupe's day) (December 12th) this day isn't official but a lot of companies and public officies, gives this day off to its employees in order they can celebrate this day. (a lot of mexicans go into peregrination this day) 

And the last but not the least El día de los Reyes Magos (The three wise guys days, January 6th) Wher children receive theirs gifts form them (as santa claus does in USA) this day it's not official in companies but most of the schools (whetet they'll be public or privates) gives the day off to the students in order they can play with his neW toys, this is from kindergarden to elemantary school. 

By the way Mexico it's a Catholic country (at least most of the population is) 


Thanks for your aportations


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## sokol

If you ask for religious holidays also being national holidays: of these we have plenty here in Austria, not only Christmas and Easter (monday after Easter is a holiday); and I think in other (predominantly) Catholic nations it is similar, at least to a degree.
There's Christmas (plus St Stephan = Boxing Day in England), New Year (yes, a Christian holiday too!), the Holy Three Kings (jan 6th), Easter Monday, 'Fronleichnam', 'Christi Himmelfahrt', Mary's Conception, All Saints and still some others I think.

In Protestant countries (Germany - Lutherans, Switzerland also Calvinists, etc.) there are not so many of these holidays (I think), and some are different.


Apart from that our society is supposed to be secular; even marrying in church only (and not 'before the state' which is a different, completely secular ceremony) has no legal consequencies at all.


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## Miguelillo 87

Sokol but these days are off; or do you go to work? 

Is there any cleebration pay or made by the governament or only the church and the population take cares of them???


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## sokol

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Sokol but these days are off; or do you go to work?
> 
> Is there any cleebration pay or made by the governament or only the church and the population take cares of them???



These days certainly are 'off' - they're holidays, and paid ones (that is, if you work you get the day paid as if you'd been to work); there's also no school on these days.

A 'celebration pay' is not made, but you are paid as if you _had _been to work (which you haven't, of course). So, your regular employer will pay you the worth of 8 hours work which you _hadn't_ done on this holiday, simple as that. The government pays nothing, nor does the church.


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## Miguelillo 87

sokol said:


> A 'celebration pay' is not made: your regular employer will pay you the worth of 8 hours work which you _hadn't_ done on this holiday, simple as that. The government pays nothing, nor does the church.


 

I got your point, same happens in México, but not in so many days as in Austria.

About the payment maybe you misunderstood me, when I was talkin about payment I refered, for example. 

When The Guadalupe's day arrives, The department of security of the City has to plan the security of this day, it sets policeman around the Basilica, ambulances, medical sites, shelters houses  for the pilgrims etc. All thsi is pay by the governament


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## capsi

i think in India we have the most number of holidays due to religious reasons...these are national holidays....there are many more regional religious holidays in different states of India.

like all the birthdays of different religious figure ......Krishna Janmastami,Ram navami[hindu] Gurunanyak[shikh], Buddha, Christ, Mohammad, Mahabir[Jain] etc

and many more religious festivals like Holi[festival of colour],Diwali[festival of lights]
Dashera etc for hindus, Eid, Maharram etc for Muslims, Good Friday etc.


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## alexacohen

In Spain Christmas, New year, Good Friday (at least I think so) and the Three Wise Men's day are paid days-off for everyone.

If there are more I don't remember them.

There are also some local religious holidays; where I live is Saint Jacques the Apostle's day, 25th July.

Spain is supossed to be a non-religious country. But those holidays are sacred for most Spaniards, in a non religious sense.


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## federicoft

Not surprisingly, Italy is quite similar to both Austria and Spain. 
Three Wise Men's day (Jan 6th), Easter+Easter monday, Assumption Day (Aug 15th), All Saints+Day of the Dead (Nov 1st and 2nd), the Immaculate Conception (Dec 8th), Christmas and St Stephen's Day (Dec 25th and 26th) are civil holidays and paid days off. Schools are closed too on those days.


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## lamartus

alexacohen said:


> If there are more I don't remember them.



15 de agosto- Cada región su virgen
12 de octubre - Nuestra Señora del Pilar
1 de noviembre - Día de todos los Santos
8 de diciembre - La Inmaculada Concepción

If there are more I don't remember them.


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## Trinite

In the Vaud county, a part of the french speaking part of Switzerland, we have
25 december, (birth of Christ)
Good Friday (death of Christ)
Monday after Easter (day after ressurection of Christ)
Thursday of ascension (Christ going to the sky)
Monday of Pentecost (Day after Holy Ghost coming on Jesus' apostles)
Monday of the federal Lent (Day after the swiss Lent)

All of them are religious days off (everyone has a holiday)


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## Nanon

France is supposed to be a secular country... but it has many Catholic public holidays: Easter Monday, Ascension, Whit (Pentecost) Monday (reinstated this year!), Assumption, All Saints' Day, Christmas, New Year.

Additionally, there are secular public holidays too: Labour Day, Victory Day - WWII, National Day, Armistice Day - WWI.

All the above are official public holidays, by law. Public places, schools, companies... are closed. If a public holiday takes place on Thursdays, many companies will offer their employees the possibility to take a "bridge holiday" (Friday off). But most schools won't and pupils have to go to school not only on Friday but also on Saturday morning as usual.

The month of May has many days off. This is a time of the year when bosses go crazy because productivity goes down and they fear French companies will project an image of laziness abroad... 

Some Catholic feasts are celebrated too (normally on Sundays, so no day off) even by many non-Christians or non-practising Christians, because they create occasions for social or family gatherings: Epiphany (the Three Wise Men's day) - but gifts are given for Christmas, Chandeleur (Candlemas) in February - this is carnival but also the right time for crêpes, and Easter. Well, Easter is an official, legal public holiday. But it doesn't "really" count, being a Sunday. Easter Monday does.

In some parts of Northern and Eastern France, St Nicholas' day (6 December) was or is celebrated alongside Christmas. It used to be a date for giving presents to children, too.


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## sureño

In Argentina we’ve Christmas, Easter (usually only Friday is completely work –off day), Immaculate Conception (Dec 8th) and…no more.
Aaaah another one… last days we celebrate also ‘Santa Cristina’; though it has not any schedule day. It would be in any time according with the circumstance.


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## Miguelillo 87

alexacohen said:


> Good Friday  are paid days-off.


 
I've forgotten this day, Here in México we have La Semana Santa (The Holy Week) here since Thursday, Friday (of resurrection) ans Saturday of glary, all Mexico is on vacations, being a catholic or not.


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## Miguelillo 87

luis masci said:


> because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens, so choosing some religion is a sort of discriminative for everyone else who is not into it.
> So in my opinion shouldn’t be official holidays for religion motivations.


 

I agree with you, but it's difficult to do it and understand it; I think the governament do that, bacause the history the country has and the MAJOR customs people has. 

For example here in México there is a big jew community (at least here in the capital) and their religious days are not marked in the law as holidays, but Holy week yes!!!!

Mybe they celebrate it and in their companies they don't work, but I think the governament go where the mayorities are.


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## sokol

Nanon said:


> (...) Whit (Pentecost) Monday (...)


I have forgotten that one: it is also a public holiday in Austria (always was).

Good Friday in Austria is _not _a public holiday, but if you are of Protestant confession (Calvinist, Lutheran, whatever) you have a religious holiday on Good Friday which your employer has to pay fully as if it were a Catholic holiday. This is only valid if you proof that you are still paying your 'Church tax' to the Protestant Church of course; if you change your faith or become an atheist or agnoistic then you get nothing, or more precisely you'll have to work on Good Friday.



Nanon said:


> In some parts of Northern and Eastern France, St Nicholas' day (6 December) was or is celebrated alongside Christmas. It used to be a date for giving presents to children, too.


It is celebrated in Austria, but it isn't a public holiday; (small) presents like chocolate and nuts are given to children (well ... in our times the presents are not _so _small anymore, in some families).
But we have a public holiday on 8th of december, Mary's Conception.


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## sureño

luis masci said:


> But my point is… I see unfair governments “marrying” with some particular religion,
> because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens, so choosing some religion is a sort of discriminative for everyone else who is not into it.
> So in my opinion shouldn’t be official holidays for religion motivations.


As Migelillo, I have to agree totally with this statement too.


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## Trinite

Let us all forget our cultural historic identity, then. If you don't know where you come from, you simply can't know where you are going...


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## alexacohen

> Originally Posted by *luis masci*
> But my point is… I see unfair governments “marrying” with some particular religion,
> because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens, so choosing some religion is a sort of discriminative for everyone else who is not into it.
> So in my opinion shouldn’t be official holidays for religion motivations.


 
But that is not the point at all.

Check the dates of all those supossed religious holidays: Christmas is the Winter's Solstice; Saint John in Spain matches the Summer's Solstice; assorted saint somethings all over the country match roughly with Midsummer; Saint Martin in Spain celebrates the end of the harvest. And New Year, well it is New Year.


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## Nanon

luis masci said:


> because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens...


 
It would be fair if we had public holidays from more than just one religion alongside secular.
But then, we might have to work on weekends to compensate...


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## alexacohen

Nanon said:


> It would be fair if we had public holidays from more than just one religion alongside secular.


But are they religious holidays, really?

New Year is celebrated in every culture I am aware of; and so is the harvest,
midsummer, both solstices... 

If Govenments decided to cancel those holidays under the pretext that they are restricted to one religion people could very well end up having no days off at all.

Let sleeping dogs lie.


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## Etcetera

Ciàu Kajjo.

It's an interesting question, and a cunning one indeed.



Kajjo said:


> * In a secular state, do you think it is valid to favor the predominant religion by having nationwide religious holidays, on which nobody is allowed to work, and to force members of minority religions to work on their respective holidays?*


It is the case here in Russia. Orthodox Christmas is a bank holiday, and a few years ago it was decided that all Russians would have a whole week off, from New Year to Christmas. 
As for Muslim holidays, for instance, there's a number of regions where the majority of population are Muslims. I don't know if they have days off for their holidays, but it would be logical.



> *What do you think about the following idea:* Each person can freely declare a _specific number_ of days as his personal holidays. He has to do so before the new year starts to clearly distinguish his holidays from pure vacation. This way, Christians, Jews, Moslems, Atheists and so on can freely and equally declare their holidays on an individual and personal basis and enjoy their own celebrations, traditions and recreations.


I would welcome that. As a Roman Catholic, I would definitely be glad to have a day off for Christmas and some other major Catholic holidays. At the same time, my family is Orthodox, and I value the possibility to celebrate the holidays with them. In the end, we have the same holidays, but on different days. 

I don't see it as a major issue, though. The Roman Catholic Church in Russia have many other problems beside that. And as for Catholic holidays which fall on working days, they are either adjourned to the near Sunday, or people comne to the evening Mass. I've heard some complaints, of course, but it surely isn't our biggest problem.


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## sureño

Nanon said:


> Originally Posted by luis masci
> because governments are (supposedly) for all of their citizens...





Nanon said:


> It would be fair if we had public holidays from more than just one religion alongside secular.
> But then, we might have to work on weekends to compensate...


 
Another possibility would be none of religious holiday at all. 
Don't you think?


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