# I've graduated the university. I worked after that.



## Brigitte_anna

Hi,
could you please explain which tenses should be used in the following situation - someone is describing their background, their work experience:

_I *have graduated* the university with a degree in  business. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._

Is it correct to use "after that" and the simple past after the present perfect?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

The whole first sentence is wrong.  You did not "graduate the university."  If anyone graduated anything, the university graduated you -- but it would be much more natural to say that you _graduated *from* the university [_although which university are we talking about?  Your use of "the" indicates you have a specific institution in mind...]_ with a degree in business._


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## Brigitte_anna

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> The whole first sentence is wrong.  You did not "graduate the university."  If anyone graduated anything, the university graduated you -- but it would be much more natural to say that you _graduated *from* the university [_although which university are we talking about?  Your use of "the" indicates you have a specific institution in mind...]_ with a degree in business._



_I *graduated from* the university with a degree in business. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._

Is it right now? What confuses me is that graduation from the university is my experience, not just a past action. We usually use the present perfect for our experience, for example:

I have been to Japan. (Not I was in Japan)


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> [...]
> Is it right now? What confuses me is that graduation from the university is my experience, not just a past action. We usually use the present perfect for our experience, for example:
> 
> I have been to Japan. (Not I was in Japan)


You don't seem to be clear on this point, Brigitte, like many non-native speakers.

We don't use the present perfect for all our experience; but just to indicate that a certain experience is in our 'suitcase of experience', the things we have done as opposed to not done. _ Have you climbed Everest?_ _Yes, I have; I climbed it in 2005_.

The _Yes, I have_ is saying that climbing Everest is in your 'suitcase of experiences', and_ I climbed it in 2005_ tells us when the event occurred.

Notice that  both verbs explain your experiences, but in a different way.  The simple past is eventive (it recounts the event), the past perfect records that the event is in your experience.

_I have been to Japan _tells us that a visit to Japan is in your 'suitcase of experiences';_ I went to Japan_ is eventive (the next thing that happened in a narration, perhaps).

We can't say_ I have been to Japan last year _, because when you went is immaterial to the fact that you have been.

We can say_ I went to Japan last year _, because that's when the event took place.


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## Brigitte_anna

Thomas Tompion said:


> You don't seem to be clear on this point, Brigitte, like many non-native speakers.
> 
> We don't use the present perfect for all our experience; but just to indicate that a certain experience is in our 'suitcase of experience', the things we have done as opposed to not done. _ Have you climbed Everest?_ _Yes, I have; I climbed it in 2005_.
> 
> The _Yes, I have_ is saying that climbing Everest is in your 'suitcase of experiences', and_ I climbed it in 2005_ tells us when the event occurred.
> 
> Notice that  both verbs explain your experiences, but in a different way.  The simple past is eventive (it recounts the event), the past perfect records that the event is in your experience.
> 
> _I have been to Japan _tells us that a visit to Japan is in your 'suitcase of experiences';_ I went to Japan_ is eventive (the next thing that happened in a narration, perhaps).
> 
> We can't say_ I have been to Japan last year _, because when you went is immaterial to the fact that you have been.
> 
> We can say_ I went to Japan last year _, because that's when the event took place.


Thank you very much for this explanation! So may I say:

_I *have graduated from* the university with a degree in business. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._ 

I mean that the graduation from a university is in my 'suitcase of experiences' (This is how we indicate a high level of education in Russia.  Maybe it is not idiomatic in English.)


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## Myridon

Have you ever graduated from a university?
Yes, I have graduated from XYZ University.

Do you have a university degree?
Yes, I graduated from XYZ University.

You want the second one in your context.


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## Chez

And, note, if you are just making a general point about being a graduate, then you DON'T use 'the' i.e:

I graduated from university in 2009.


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## Packard

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> The whole first sentence is wrong.  You did not "graduate the university."  If anyone graduated anything, the university graduated you -- but it would be much more natural to say that you _graduated *from* the university [_although which university are we talking about?  Your use of "the" indicates you have a specific institution in mind...]_ with a degree in business._


I wonder if British English allows "graduated the university".  Certainly American English does not.


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## Chez

I don't think any Brit implied that it was OK to use 'graduated the university' (in fact, I corrected it in my post above). Some didn't tackle that aspect of the question. Greenwhiteblue (AmE) indicated that 'the' would only be correct  with 'from' and if it was a specific, previously mentioned university.


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## DonnyB

Packard said:


> I wonder if British English allows "graduated the university".  Certainly American English does not.


No, it doesn't.  In fact I think we'd probably just say (for example) "I graduated in 2009".  In BE you don't generally "graduate" from anywhere _except_ a university.


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## Packard

DonnyB said:


> No, it doesn't.  In fact I think we'd probably just say (for example) "I graduated in 2009".  In BE you don't generally "graduate" from anywhere _except_ a university.


The reason I asked is because I've seen "Prince William attended university..."  So I figured if you "attended university" then you might "graduate university".

In American English we might say "attended college", but I don't hear "attended university".  I do hear "attended *The* University of Southern California".


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## Brigitte_anna

Myridon said:


> Have you ever graduated from a university?
> Yes, I have graduated from XYZ University.
> 
> Do you have a university degree?
> Yes, I graduated from XYZ University.
> 
> You want the second one in your context.



Thank you. But can we also use the present perfect in the second one (in AE or BE):

_Do you have a university degree?
Yes, I *have graduated* from XYZ University._

That past action is important now, it is a completed action, it relates to my experience after all.


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> Thank you. But can we also use the present perfect in the second one (in AE or BE):
> 
> _Do you have a university degree?
> Yes, I *have graduated* from XYZ University._
> 
> That past action is important now, it is a completed action, it relates to my experience after all.


It doesn't work for me in BE: I think it sounds odd.

A _far _more natural response to the question would be "Yes: I *have* a BA in French (or whatever) from XYZ".

It _might_ work as "I'm a graduate of XYZ University" but even that isn't the way most native speakers would say it.


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## Brigitte_anna

DonnyB said:


> It doesn't work for me in BE: I think it sounds odd.



OK, let's consider the phrase "_I *have graduated* from XYZ University_" alone. Context: two co-workers are talking about themselves, their backgrounds. One of them is saying:

- By the way, do you know that _I *have graduated* from XYZ University?_

Is it OK to use the present perfect "_*have graduated*_" in this situation?


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## Nikined

Brigitte_anna said:


> _Do you have a university degree?
> Yes, I *have graduated* from XYZ University._
> 
> That past action is important now, it is a completed action, it relates to my experience after all.


I'd probably say that present perfect is about action happening, and past simple is about details. In this sentence the main thing is the university you graduated from (or, if you didn't name it, just the fact that you graduated from university), not the action of graduating itself

In your workers' dialogue present perfect also seems to be not working


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> OK, let's consider the phrase "_I *have graduated* from XYZ University_" alone. Context: two co-workers are talking about themselves, their backgrounds. One of them is saying:
> 
> - By the way, do you know that _I *have graduated* from XYZ University?_
> 
> Is it OK to use the present perfect "_*have graduated*_" in this situation?


It could work if the other one thought that he or she was still doing their degree, so that the act of graduating was very recent, but in that case I think they'd just say "By the way [did you know] I've graduated".


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> OK, let's consider the phrase "_I *have graduated* from XYZ University_" alone. Context: two co-workers are talking about themselves, their backgrounds. One of them is saying:
> 
> - By the way, do you know that _I *have graduated* from XYZ University?_
> 
> Is it OK to use the present perfect "_*have graduated*_" in this situation?


I don't think you've got it yet, Brigitte. 

You'd only be likely to say  _I *have graduated* from XYZ University _if the person you are talking to didn't think  you had graduated yet, or has just suggested that you haven't. You graduated last week, so you can say that you have graduated. If the other person knew you before your graduation you might say_ I've graduated now._


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## Nikined

Myridon said:


> Have you ever graduated from a university?
> Yes, I have graduated from XYZ University.


Does even this really work? I know, the question sounds rather surreal, but I still think that answering it with mentioning the university name is quite highly likely to be in past simple. If the name does matter, it makes the sentence specific and therefore requires past simple, if the name doesn't matter, then it simply shouldn't be stated


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## Packard

Nikined said:


> Does even this really work? I know, the question sounds rather surreal, but I still think that answering it with mentioning the university name is quite highly likely to be in past simple. If the name does matter, it makes the sentence specific and therefore requires past simple, if the name doesn't matter, then it simply shouldn't be stated


Yes.

_Did you graduate from college?
Yes, I graduated from Syracuse University._


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## Nikined

Packard said:


> Yes.
> 
> _Did you graduate from college?
> Yes, I graduated from Syracuse University._


Do you agree with me? I doubted that present perfect is acceptable in the answer, and you rejected it either


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## Edinburgher

Brigitte_anna said:


> What confuses me is that graduation from the university is my experience, not just a past action.


I think this is a misunderstanding.  Graduating from university is an action.  It happens at the graduation ceremony.  If we want to talk about our experiences of attending university for several years, we do not do so by saying that we graduated.

But irrespective of whether we're talking about having attended university or about graduating from it, the usual tense to use for this in English is the simple past.  This differs from German, where the equivalent of the present perfect would be used.


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> [...]
> What confuses me is that graduation from the university is my experience, not just a past action.


Graduation at most universities is a past action, attended by gowning ceremonies, and much student elation.

Once you have performed the action, you can say, particularly when you are feeling boastful, *I have graduated from XYZ University.*


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## Nikined

Thomas Tompion said:


> Once you have performed the action, you can say, particularly when you are feeling boastful, *I have graduated from XYZ University.*


You can say it usually only shortly after the graduation, right?


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## Thomas Tompion

Nikined said:


> You can say it usually only shortly after the graduation, right?


It would be unusual to say it long afterwards, other than to a person who had suggested to you that you hadn't graduated.


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## Brigitte_anna

Thomas Tompion said:


> We don't use the present perfect for all our experience; but just to indicate that a certain experience is in our 'suitcase of experience', the things we have done as opposed to not done. _ Have you climbed Everest?_ _Yes, I have; I climbed it in 2005_.



Let's consider a job interview:

_- Please, tell me about yorself._
- _I *have graduated* the university XYZ with a degree in business. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._

This answer is incorrect, right?

_- Please, tell me about yorself._
- _I *have studied* in the university. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._

But this answer is OK, isn't it?

The difference is that a *graduation* action is not considered to be important enough to be included in a person's 'suitcase of experience'. Whereas *studing* in a univesity is important enough to be included in a person's 'suitcase of experience'. Am I close now?


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## owlman5

Brigitte_anna said:


> - _I *have studied* in the university. I *worked* as a sales manager *after that*. But now I run my own company._


_I have studied in the university _sounds unlikely in this comment about two things that you completed in the past before you started running your own company. The past simple seems more suitable in the list: _I studied at the university. I worked as a sales manager after that. Now I run my own company._

There really isn't any need to use the present perfect in any part of that list of your achievements.


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## Myridon

Nikined said:


> The difference is that a *graduation* action is not considered to be important enough to be included in a person's 'suitcase of experience'. Whereas *studing* in a univesity is important enough to be included in a person's 'suitcase of experience'. Am I close now?


The graduation action implies that you have a degree, but the action itself is not important.  It would be more direct to say "I have a degree" than "I graduated".
"I have studied..." implies you were accepted, paid the fees and attended at least once.  That's not very important at all.


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## Brigitte_anna

owlman5 said:


> The past simple seems more suitable in the list: _I studied at the university. I worked as a sales manager after that. Now I run my own company._
> 
> There really isn't any need to use the present perfect in any part of that list of your achievements.



What about this list:

_- Please, tell me about yourself._
- _I studied at the university. I worked as a sales manager after that. I *went* to Japan. Now I run my own company._

Is it right to use the simple past "went" ?


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## owlman5

Brigitte_anna said:


> Is it right to use the simple past "went" ?


It sure is. That use of the past simple is ordinary in remarks about things that were completed in the past.

There doesn't seem to be any particular call for the present perfect, which would be suitable if you were trying to emphasize the notion that these activities have some special relevance or significance _right now:_ _I've lived in Japan, so I know something about Japanese culture._


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## Brigitte_anna

Myridon said:


> The graduation action implies that you have a degree, but the action itself is not important.  It would be more direct to say "I have a degree" than "I graduated".
> "I have studied..." implies you were accepted, paid the fees and attended at least once.  That's not very important at all.


What is the difference between "_I studied at the university_" and "I have been to Japan" then? Why do we use the simple past in the former but the present perfect in the latter?



owlman5 said:


> There doesn't seem to be any particular call for the present perfect, which would be suitable if you were trying to emphasize the notion that these activities have some particular relevance or significance right now: _I've lived in Japan, so I know something about Japanese culture..._



But I tought they had. The employer wants to know my background - that is why I wanted to say "I have studied in the university", "I have graduated from the university" - this is the thing that has a big relevance and significance at a job interview, hasn't it?


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## Myridon

Brigitte_anna said:


> What is the difference between "_I studied at the university_" and "I have been to Japan" then? Why do we use the simple past in the former but the present perfect in the latter?


Having been to Japan is an accomplishment.  Not every one goes to Japan. It becomes an interesting fact about you. You are a person who has been to Japan.
Studying at a university (for an unknown amount of time with no outcome) is not an accomplishment.



Brigitte_anna said:


> this is the thing that has a big relevance and significance at a job interview, hasn't it?


The thing that is significant in your original sentence in post 1 is "a degree in business."


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## owlman5

Brigitte_anna said:


> "I have graduated from the university" - this is the thing that has a big relevance and significance at a job interview, hasn't it?


If you want to emphasize* the present relevance of all these activities, it would make sense to use the present perfect in all the remarks about your previous accomplishments: I have graduated from a university. I have worked as a sales manager. Now I run my own company.

But it is _odd_ to single out one event and use the present perfect in your remark about that event. The inconsistency calls needless attention to itself.  The listener will be distracted and probably confused by this inconsistency.

*In the context of a job interview, this emphasis isn't really necessary. The interviewer will assume that your activities in the past have some current relevance as you mention them. You don't _need_ to use the present perfect to highlight that relevance.


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> What is the difference between "_I studied at the university_" and "I have been to Japan" then? Why do we use the simple past in the former but the present perfect in the latter?
> 
> But I tought they had. The employer wants to know my background - that is why I wanted to say "I have studied in the university", "I have graduated from the university" - this is the thing that has a big relevance and significance at a job interview, hasn't it?


Sorry, but I think you're getting too hung up on this _'suitcase of experiences'_ concept.

Where you're just recounting a _sequential series of things_ that you did in the past - going to university, graduating, working as a sales manager etc...  then you use the simple past.  The same would apply to going to Japan as part of that.

What makes "I've been to Japan" different in Owlman's example #29 is that you then go on to talk about it in a way which explains what relevance it has, _as a single event_, _now_.


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## Nikined

Brigitte_anna said:


> What is the difference between "_I studied at the university_" and "I have been to Japan" then? Why do we use the simple past in the former but the present perfect in the latter?


you can add "in the past" in the former, but you can't add "in the past" in the latter, can you (in given contexts, at least)?


Brigitte_anna said:


> But I thought they had. The employer wants to know my background - that is why I wanted to say "I have studied in the university", "I have graduated from the university" - this is the thing that has a big relevance and significance at a job interview, hasn't it?


I guess you shouldn't pay too much attention to this "result in the present" rule. You can "find" in almost every action, but still in many cases they use past simple. When you say "I have studied/graduated in/from the university" you _inform_ about the fact of being a university graduate, not the action of graduating itself. The action is secondary, thus it "belongs" to the past


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## Brigitte_anna

Thank you everybody!
I wonder whether the present perfect can be learned and understood logically, or must it be learned by memorizing many different situations, by exposure to everyday conversations...


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## london calling

Packard said:


> The reason I asked is because I've seen "Prince William attended university..."  So I figured if you "attended university" then you might "graduate university".


Not in BE.


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> Thank you everybody!
> I wonder whether the present perfect can be learned and understood logically, or must it be learned by memorizing many different situations, by exposure to everyday conversations...


Working with foreign students I found that it can be learned and understood logically.


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## taked4700

I guess Brigitte has already understood how to use present perfect logically.

.What matters is the diffetence in culture.
In Japan,  I guess "I have graduated from university." would be used more frequently than "I graduated from university."


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## owlman5

taked4700 said:


> "I graduated from university."


Nobody would use that remark in U.S. English, taked4700.  _I graduated from a university _would be a reasonable thing to say in a speaker's comments about a list of previous accomplishments during a job interview. There wouldn't be any particular reason to use the present perfect in that remark, but I don't think that cultural differences explain why that is true.


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## london calling

taked4700 said:


> In Japan,  I guess "I have graduated from university." would be used more frequently than "I graduated from university."


You mean in Japanese, I presume? In English the use of one or the other tense depends entirely on the (temporal) context. That isn't a cultural difference, it's grammar and usage.


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## Brigitte_anna

london calling said:


> That isn't a cultural difference, *it's grammar and usage*.



Which grammar rule determines whether the past simple or the present perfect must be used in this particular situation (graduating a university)?


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## Nikined

Emphasis on the action


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> Which grammar rule determines whether the past simple or the present perfect must be used in this particular situation (graduating a university)?


It's not really a "rule", it's heavily dependent on context.

On its own "I have graduated from university" sounds odd to a native speaker unless either it's happened very recently or the person it's said to wasn't aware that you had.


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## taked4700

Thank you, Olman5.
I have no intention to contradict you, but Google Ngram Viewer says "graduate from university" is used more frequently than "graduated from a university".
I guess that there could be cultural difference:
1. In Japan, employers do not ask employees to submit his or her diploma in most cases.
2. I do not know the situations in the U.S. but I suppose diplomas should be requested to submit.


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## Brigitte_anna

DonnyB said:


> On its own "I have graduated from university" sounds odd to a native speaker unless either it's happened very recently or the person it's said to wasn't aware that you had.


This particular phrase sounds odd? Or any phrase "I have done something" sounds odd unless either it's happened very recently or the person it's said to wasn't aware that I had?


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## taked4700

london calling said:


> You mean in Japanese, I presume? In English the use of one or the other tense depends entirely on the (temporal) context. That isn't a cultural difference, it's grammar and usage.


Yes, in Japanese we tend to use present perfect when referring to such kind of things.


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## owlman5

taked4700 said:


> Thank you, Olman5.
> I have no intention to contradict you, but Google Ngram Viewer says "graduate from university" is used more frequently than "graduated from a university".
> I guess that there could be cultural difference:
> 1. In Japan, employers do not ask employees to submit his or her diploma in most cases.
> 2. I do not know the situations in the U.S. but I suppose diplomas should be requested to submit.



That doesn't surprise me, Taked, because people often say things like _I graduated from the University of Colorado _or _I graduated from UCLA _rather than _I graduated from a university._

It also makes sense to remember that Google's Ngram Viewer only provides the results gathered from a corpus of published books rather than from the normal conversations that people have in job interviews. The results that you gather from that corpus won't offer anything useful regarding what people actually say during job interviews.


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi B_a, it seems to me that the answer here is simple.


> I have  graduated the university with a degree in business. I worked as a sales manager after that.


  You're describing a series of actions, and graduating is - as described in this sequence - a *completed event in the past*, because in the following sentence you say "after that".


> *Completed actions in the past*
> We usually talk about these actions and events using the *past simple*. BBC


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> This particular phrase sounds odd? Or any phrase "I have done something" sounds odd unless either it's happened very recently or the person it's said to wasn't aware that I had?


That particular sentence sounds odd to me _as it stands_.

The usage of the perfect tense is dependent on all sorts of things - too many to cover in one thread - but describing something that's happened quite recently is a _very_ typical usage, in BE at least.


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## Brigitte_anna

Let's change the situation. The interview (business-related position) is going like this:

- Why should we hire you?
- _I *have graduated* from the university XYZ with a degree in business. I *have worked* as a sales manager *after that*. Now I run my own company._

Is it OK now?


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## Enquiring Mind

No. If you say "after that", whatever action happened previously is *a completed event in the past*.


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## london calling

No. You're talking about a completed action in the past. You need the past simple.

Edit. And it's '...graduated *from*...'.


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## Barque

Also, as other posts have said, "graduated the university" is wrong. You need "I graduated from..."


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## Nikined

DonnyB said:


> On its own "I have graduated from university" sounds odd to a native speaker unless either it's happened very recently or the person it's said to wasn't aware that you had.


But this person should be aware that you were studying there, shouldn't he? So the university won't be news to him


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## Brigitte_anna

london calling said:


> No. You're talking about a completed action in the past. You need the past simple.
> 
> Edit. And it's '...graduated *from*...'.


No, I'm talking about my experience and knowledge related the the position I'm applying to. That is why I use the present perfect


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## Brigitte_anna

Another example:
- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
- I have been to Japan many times

I'm talking not about a past events here. I'm saying that I know Japan


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## london calling

Brigitte_anna said:


> No, I'm talking about my experience and knowledge related the the position I'm applying to. That is why I use the present perfect


You still haven't understood how we use the present perfect, I'm afraid. You need the simple past because your graduation is a completed, past event, as is your job as a sales manager.


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## london calling

Brigitte_anna said:


> Another example:
> - Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
> - I have been to Japan many times
> 
> I'm talking not about a past events here. I'm saying that I know Japan


That's fine because there's no time marker (or implied time) in the sentence.


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## DonnyB

Nikined said:


> But this person should be aware that you were studying there, shouldn't he? So the university won't be news to him


The going to university and studying probably isn't going to be news, but it's the _graduation_ which could well be.


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## Brigitte_anna

london calling said:


> That's fine because there's no time marker (or implied time) in the sentence.



- Why should we hire you?
- _I *have graduated* from the university XYZ with a degree in business. I *have worked* as a sales manager. Now I run my own company._ 

It is also OK then? ("after that" is removed)


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## Nikined

DonnyB said:


> The going to university and studying probably isn't going to be news, but it's the _graduation_ which could well be.


What I meant and asked, that "I have graduated from the university" is appropriate if the recipient didn't know that the person had graduated from, but knew that the person had been studying, attending the university. And I think that definite THE before "university" also tells us that he (the recipient) knew about the study in there, doesn't it?


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## Brigitte_anna

DonnyB said:


> The going to university and studying probably isn't going to be news, but it's the _graduation_ which could well be.


What do you mean? By graduation I understand the successfull completion of studying in the univesity, not the celebration of the degree

to graduate
successfully complete an academic degree, course of training, or (in North America) high school


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## DonnyB

Brigitte_anna said:


> - Why should we hire you?
> - _I *have graduated* from the university XYZ with a degree in business. I *have worked* as a sales manager. Now I run my own company._
> 
> It is also OK then? ("after that" is removed)


It still sounds oddly unidiomatic and not something most native speakers would say.   

I'd expect most job applicants to answer that with "I *have a degree* in business studies from XYZ university and ...."


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> Another example:
> - Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
> - I have been to Japan many times
> 
> I'm talking not about a past events here. I'm saying that I know Japan


Yes, and that usage is perfect.

There are two points worth mentioning, perhaps:

1.  Americans use the Present Perfect rather less than the British, I suspect.

I notice them in films using the simple past, where we British would use the present perfect.

If you mainly have speech with people who are American, or who have learnt from Americans, that may mean you find yourself deviating from the principles some of us have been trying to lay down for you here.

2.  Remember that the Present Perfect is a present tense; that's the point of the 'suitcase of experiences' approach.

Using the tense is saying that the experience* is* in your suitcase; it is something you have done, that is one of your achievements.

People who have little experience of teaching sometimes deride it, for maybe it sounds a facile explanation, but I've known learners say they find the approach extremely helpful, which is why I continue to use the expression.


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## Barque

Nikined said:


> What I meant and asked, that "I have graduated from the university" is appropriate if the recipient didn't know that the person had graduated from, but knew that the person had been studying, attending the university.


This is a possible conversation:
_A: Are you still at Durham University?
B: No, I have graduated. It was just last month._

But if the speaker's referring to his graduation a few years later, to say that he has a degree, he'd normally say: _I graduated from --- in 2015 with a degree in business_, or, as DonnyB says, _I have a degree in business from ---._


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## owlman5

Brigitte_anna said:


> - Why should we hire you?
> - _I *have graduated* from the university XYZ with a degree in business. I *have worked* as a sales manager *after that*. Now I run my own company._





Brigitte_anna said:


> Is it OK now?


This use of the present perfect is _possible_, Brigitte, but it sounds strangely emphatic.  Your comment about your qualifications would seem just as relevant and more normal if you used the past simple to list these things.



Thomas Tompion said:


> here are two points worth mentioning, perhaps:
> 
> 1. Americans use the Present Perfect rather less than the British I suspect.
> 
> I notice them in films using the simple past, where we British would use the past perfect.
> 
> If you mainly have speech with people who are American, or who have learnt from Americans, that may mean you find yourself deviating from the principles some of us have been trying to lay down for you here.


I believe you, TT, but I haven't seen any significant variation in the recommendations regarding the tenses to use during this imaginary job interview.  People are telling Brigitte that some of her beliefs about when and how to use the present perfect are not serving her well in this context.

cross-posted


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## Thomas Tompion

owlman5 said:


> [...[
> I believe you, TT, but I haven't seen any significant variation in the recommendations regarding the tenses to use during this imaginary job interview. People are telling Brigitte that some of her instincts regarding when and how to use the present perfect are not serving her well in this context.


Yes, that's true.

I wonder if you have the reciprocal experience to me: being surprised in British films by the way people use the present perfect, and past tenses.


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## Nikined

Thomas Tompion said:


> Yes, and that usage is perfect.
> 
> There are two points worth mentioning, perhaps:
> 
> 1.  Americans use the Present Perfect rather less than the British I suspect.
> 
> I notice them in films using the simple past, where we British would use the present perfect.


Does it involve only the situations with words like "just", "yet", "recently", or there are more? Would BE and AE speakers say differently in this situation: "Oh, no! The car has breaken / broke down!" ?


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## owlman5

Thomas Tompion said:


> Yes, that's true.
> 
> I wonder if you have the reciprocal experience to me: being surprised in British films by the way people use the present perfect, and past tenses.


I really strain to hear some of these differences when I watch British films, etc. on You Tube, but I have a hard time finding any uses of the present perfect that sound odd to me.  This is particularly true when I listen to people's conversations in documentaries, etc.  I hear different accents and the occasional unusual noun, but so far I haven't been able to detect anything that strikes me as a big regional difference in grammar or the use of tenses.

Maybe you're just better at picking them up than I am.  Or maybe I just haven't watched the right films yet...


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## taked4700

owlman5 said:


> That doesn't surprise me, Taked, because people often say things like _I graduated from the University of Colorado _or _I graduated from UCLA _rather than _I graduated from a university._
> 
> It also makes sense to remember that Google's Ngram Viewer only provides the results gathered from a corpus of published books rather than from the normal conversations that people have in job interviews. The results that you gather from that corpus won't offer anything useful regarding what people actually say during job interviews.


I must say sorry to you.  I was forgetting the thread is about job interviews.  But please understand that in Japan we tend to use present perfect when saying about past accomplishments.
Just having re-read the O.P., I guess the original question was about simple past tense after present perfect tense makes sense or not.  I agree to use past simlpe would be more suitable when listing what you accomplished in the past.  
But at the same time, I think it would be very natural to answer "I have graduated from xxx." in a job interview at least in Japan.


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## Nikined

taked4700 said:


> I must say sorry to you.  I was forgetting the thread is about job interviews.  But please understand that in Japan we tend to use present perfect when saying about past accomplishments.
> Just having re-read the O.P., I guess the original question was about simple past tense after present perfect tense makes sense or not.  I agree to use past simlpe would be more suitable when listing what you accomplished in the past.
> But at the same time, I think it would be very natural to answer "I have graduated from xxx." in a job interview at least in Japan.


You mean an interview where the conversation is in Japanese?


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## london calling

taked4700 said:


> ----
> I agree to use past simple would be more suitable when listing what you accomplished in the past.
> But at the same time, I think it would be very natural to answer "I have graduated from xxx." in a job interview at least in Japan.


It isn't natural at all  . Graduation is a past event by its very nature. It is over and done with. The past perfect has no place in that time-frame.

And in any case as was said above we'd be far more likely to say "I have a degree in..."


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## taked4700

Nikined said:


> You mean an interview where the conversation is in Japanese?


Yes.  But I do not have any specific data which tells you the rate.
I suspect from my own experiences that present perfect vs simple past would be fifty fifty.


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## london calling

I think we should avoid discussing Japanese usage. It only confuses matters further.


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## taked4700

london calling said:


> I think we should avoid discussing Japanese usage. It only confuses matters further.


I only would like to say that there are not just B.E and A.E. in the world.
Let me say that English is spoken all over the world so that admitting the local usage would make English more flourish in the world.


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## PaulQ

Brigitte_anna said:


> What is the difference between "_I studied at the university_" and "I have been to Japan" then? Why do we use the simple past in the former but the present perfect in the latter?


To be is a stative verb; to study is not.


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## owlman5

taked4700 said:


> I agree to use past simple would be more suitable when listing what you accomplished in the past.


This is a sensible conclusion to arrive at. Nobody is suggesting that Brigitte avoid all use of the present perfect in a job interview. Instead, people are suggesting that it doesn't seem to be the most appropriate tense to use in a few particular sentences that refer to her previous education and work experience.


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## london calling

taked4700 said:


> I only would like to say that there are not just B.E and A.E. in the world.
> Let me say that English is spoken all over the world so that admitting the local usage would make English more flourish in the world.


This is OT. In any case I disagree completely. Do you have any idea how many 'local usages' there would be and what it would do to the English language as spoken by native speakers?


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## taked4700

london calling said:


> This is OT. In any case I disagree completely. Do you have any idea how many 'local usages' there would be and what it would do to the English language as spoken by native speakers?



I'afraid I do not know TO.  Could you tell me what it means?
And I guess that it would be beyond the scope of this thread to discuss what effects local usages would have on the English spoken by native speakers of English.


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## Nikined

taked4700 said:


> I'afraid I do not know TO.  Could you tell me what it means?
> And I guess that it would be beyond the scope of this thread to discuss what effects local usages would have on the English spoken by native speakers of English.


OT is off-topic. We really shouldn't discuss this Japanese thing of yours. What you should understand is that languages are different, and what is right in one language can be wrong in another. Using Japanese language principles for English is pointless.


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## taked4700

Thank you, Nikined.
Due to my weak sight, words looks so blurred that I often misread them.  
Thank you again,
taked4700


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## Brigitte_anna

_- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
- I *have worked* as a  Japanese tour guide._ (Meaning: I have experience in making Japanese tours.)

Is this idiomatic usage of the present perfect?


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## Brigitte_anna

Hermione Golightly said:


> No. You persist in using the present perfect for completed actions or events. We are not likely to use 'the university xyz', in either BrE, or AmE (as far as I can see).



This conversation *is* idiomatic:
_- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
- I *have been* to Japan many times._

But this one *isn't*:
_- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
- I *have worked* as a Japanese tour guide._

How can it be? The meaning of both conversations is the same!
Both verbs - be(visit), work - are action verbs.


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## Hermione Golightly

> But this one *isn't*:
> _- Why should we hire you on for this Japanese tour guide position?
> - I *have worked* as a Japanese tour guide._


It is, with the addition of 'already', or a slight change such as 'I have experience as a Japanese tour guide'.


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## Thomas Tompion

Brigitte_anna said:


> This conversation *is* idiomatic:
> _- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
> - I *have been* to Japan many times._
> 
> But this one *isn't*:
> _- Why should we hire you on this Japanese tour guide position?
> - I *have worked* as a Japanese tour guide._
> 
> How can it be? The meaning of both conversations is the same!
> Both verbs - be(visit), work - are action verbs.


Hello Brigitte.

I don't often disagree with Hermione, but I do in this case.

I find your second conversation perfectly idiomatic.  I was going to congratulate you on it, when I saw Hermione's post.

I ought to add that I think Hermione's suggestions improve the response.


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## Brigitte_anna

Thomas Tompion said:


> I find your second conversation perfectly idiomatic.


I'm so happy


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