# Water flowing



## MaricaRea

Hi, 
I need to translate this phrase:
"Water flowing", or "water that flows" in Arabic. 
How is the right translation? 
Thank you


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## ayed

مياه متدفقة
ماء متدفق


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## MaricaRea

Thank you so much!


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## djara

تدفق  suggests water gushing out forcefully, not just flowing.
In Kitab al 3ayn: "دَفَقَ الماء دُفوقاً ودَفقاً إذا انصب بمرة"
I think we can translate 'to flow' as يجري، يسيل، ينساب
 ماء جاري could be used for flowing water, as opposed to ماء راكد stagnant water


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## MaricaRea

I would like to say something similar to the concept of "Panta rei", everything flows. The same kind of flowing.. But for the water.
My intent is to translate the femaale name "Rea", that literally means "water that flows". Just this, a short phrase.


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## djara

MaricaRea said:


> My intent is to translate the femaale name "Rea", that literally means "water that flows". Just this, a short phrase.


Maybe you understand now the importance of providing forum members with your specific context from the start. That is the only way of helping you effectively.
For your context, I suggest انسياب which, for me, has a positive connotation of smoothness and elegance. However, as far as I know, it isn't normally used as a girl's first name.


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## MaricaRea

Yes, you're right.. The context is important.  
I have to use this short phrase like a name, a title or a concept and the meaning is exactly the elegant flowing of the water, as you translated... 
Is it possible to have the transliteration?


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## lukebeadgcf

What do others think of either مياه جارية for "flowing water" or جريان المياه "the flowing of water?" I think these could be a bit prettier. (This changes "water" to "waters," which can work in Arabic.)

The transliteration would be _miyāh jāriyah_ for "flowing water" and _jarayān al-miyāh_ for "the flowing of water."


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## djara

MaricaRea said:


> Is it possible to have the transliteration?


insiyāb


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## Hemza

Is ماء زارب/سارب a possible translation? (outside the scope of the intial question)


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## MaricaRea

I think that  مياه جارية "flowing water" (_miyāh jāriyah) could be the perfect option. 
Any other opinions? _


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## djara

MaricaRea said:


> My intent is to translate the femaale name "Rea", that literally means "water that flows". Just this, a short phrase.


Is your intent 
1- to have an Arabic equivalent of Rea as a first name; or 
2- to translate the phrase "water that flows" that is the meaning of the first name Rea?


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## MaricaRea

My intent is to translate the name Rea, that from ancient Greek means "water that flows". I need to use it like a name but the real meaning I need is closer to the concept of water flowing..


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## Mahaodeh

I would go with منساب, it seems to give the closest meaning.


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## MaricaRea

One question.. Which is the main difference between انسياب and منساب


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## ayed

MaricaRea said:


> One question.. Which is the main difference between انسياب and منساب


انسياب noun
منساب an adjective means that "water is in a state of flowing"


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## MaricaRea

lukebeadgcf said:


> What do others think of either مياه جارية for "flowing water" or جريان المياه "the flowing of water?" I think these could be a bit prettier. (This changes "water" to "waters," which can work in Arabic.)
> 
> The transliteration would be _miyāh jāriyah_ for "flowing water" and _jarayān al-miyāh_ for "the flowing of water."



Which is the difference between انسياب and  مياه جارية


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## lukebeadgcf

I would translate انسياب as "flow" or "flowing" and مياه جارية as "flowing water."



MaricaRea said:


> My intent is to translate the name Rea, that from ancient Greek means "water that flows". I need to use it like a name but the real meaning I need is closer to the concept of water flowing..



I think this changes the question a bit because I understood that ideally you'd like an Arabic _name _that bears the meaning of "flowing water." A number of viable translations have been proposed, but to my knowledge none of them are used as names. I am also unable to think of any word in Arabic that means "flowing water" that is also a name.

With that said, I'd also propose the following to see what others think. These seem more name-like to me:

سيل _sayl_ "flood, torrent" or مسيل _masīl_ "river bed" (sounds just like the name أسيل _asīl_)

عُباب _‘ubāb_ "main body of a flow of water; ocean waves, billows"

لُجّة _lujjah _"main body of water; depth of the sea"

نَوفَل _nawfal_ "[one meaning of which is] sea" (this one actually is actually used as a name but only for a man as far as I can tell)


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## Mahaodeh

lukebeadgcf said:


> I would translate انسياب as "flow" or "flowing" and مياه جارية as "flowing water."


I don't know about the translation, but جارية implies something more functional and relatively fast, it also implies some depth. Example: A river running towards the sea. It's also used to express "running water" as in "water running in pipes".

الانسياب is flowing, as in moving smoothly and gently. It's does not imply speed nor depth, and most importantly it does not disrupt the natural environment - it flows with the natural curves not through them. Example: a stream flowing through the field. The verb can also be used for non-horizontal water such as rain sliding down a window (not the rain falling) or tears down on a face.

الانسياب is softer and more poetic, الجريان is faster and more forceful.


lukebeadgcf said:


> سيل _sayl_ "flood, torrent" or مسيل _masīl_ "river bed" (sounds just like the name أسيل _asīl_)


It might share a couple of letters with أسيل but they are two different roots with different meanings. Also, I don't see how someone would name his child "flooding"! السيلان may not be as fast as الجريان nor does it imply as much depth of water, but it is still forceful and closer to destruction. 


lukebeadgcf said:


> عُباب _‘ubāb_ "main body of a flow of water; ocean waves, billows"


Hmm, it may not be common but I actually have met a woman named Ubab. I wouldn't call that flowing though. It's more of "the moving body of water in the sea", I would translate it as "waves" rather than "flowing water".


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## MaricaRea

lukebeadgcf said:


> I would translate انسياب as "flow" or "flowing" and مياه جارية as "flowing water."
> 
> 
> 
> I think this changes the question a bit because I understood that ideally you'd like an Arabic _name _that bears the meaning of "flowing water." A number of viable translations have been proposed, but to my knowledge none of them are used as names. I am also unable to think of any word in Arabic that means "flowing water" that is also a name.
> 
> With that said, I'd also propose the following to see what others think. These seem more name-like to me:
> 
> سيل _sayl_ "flood, torrent" or مسيل _masīl_ "river bed" (sounds just like the name أسيل _asīl_)
> 
> عُباب _‘ubāb_ "main body of a flow of water; ocean waves, billows"
> 
> لُجّة _lujjah_"main body of water; depth of the sea"
> 
> نَوفَل _nawfal_ "[one meaning of which is] sea" (this one actually is actually used as a name but only for a man as far as I can tell)



Well, is not strictly important that in Arabic it could seem a name, the important thing is that the word(s) has to bring the quite literally and elegant concept of "flowing water". 
The other "name options" are very interesting but not what I'm looking for. 
If I am not wrong, the closest translation is
مياه جارية 
Also الانسياب as a concept of flowing seem very elegant and poetic. Does it also contains the word "water"?


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## cherine

I think انسياب (flowing) is the best suggestion given for what you're looking for. The word itself doesn't contain the meaning of "water", but I don't think it's used with anything that is not fluid (so, yes, mostly water). I also sounds nice, have a connotation of fluidity and gentleness, versus the adjective جارٍ (masculine) جارية (feminine) which has the meaning of speed and maybe some strength to it.


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## lukebeadgcf

I agree with others that مياه جارية can have the sense of "running" water, which might be too aggressive for what you're looking for, while a kind of smoother "flow" is perhaps more central to the semantic range occupied by انسياب. If you don't mind two words, you could say انسياب المياه or مياه منسابة to specify flowing _water_.



cherine said:


> I don't think it's used with anything that is not fluid (so, yes, mostly water)



I think it may often be used in other contexts actually. Consider:

في الانسياب المعهود للعمليات الاجتماعية

تنزع كل من التحويلات داخل الأسر والتحويلات العامة إلى الانسياب إلى أسفل التدرج العمري

التي تهتم أساسا بالقذائف الانسيابية في شكلها التقليدي أو النووي

لتفحص البيانات المنسابة عبر شبكة الإنترنت


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## Mahaodeh

lukebeadgcf said:


> I think it may often be used in other contexts actually. Consider:


I agree but most of these are actually figurative and not literal. Well, except for this one:


lukebeadgcf said:


> التي تهتم أساسا بالقذائف الانسيابية في شكلها التقليدي أو النووي


Which might be literal if what is meant is "aerodynamic projectiles", in which case air is a fluid.


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## Sadda7

@cherine, what about using سَيْب /seib/ or سِيب /siːb/ instead of انسياب?


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## cherine

Not a word I know, so I can't comment. Sorry. All I can say is that insiyaab is commonly known and understood, and I personally find that it sounds better than سيب.

P.S. We use the adjective سايب in Egyptian Arabic for مُنْساب (flowing). But the noun is sayabaan سَيَبان not سيب (again in EA).


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## MaricaRea

For me is absolutely not a problem using more than one word, if it's necessary! It has to be essential, but complete.


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## lukebeadgcf

Between

انسياب

مياه منسابة / ماء منساب

انسياب المياه / انسياب الماء

What speaks to people most?


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## lukebeadgcf

Sadda7 said:


> what about using سَيْب /seib/



I actually think that this is interesting. There are lots of names on the pattern فَعْل and not any I can think of on the pattern انفعال. I think this would check all the boxes in terms of meaning, eloquence (but perhaps bordering on didactic), and likeness to a name (if that's important). But, the caveat is that you would have to explain what it means to people including Arabic speakers. Also, it would be readily mistaken for "apple" in Persian unless you included the فتحة (the diacritical mark on the first letter), which you could do.


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## Mahaodeh

Sadda7 said:


> @cherine, what about using سَيْب /seib/ or سِيب /siːb/ instead of انسياب?


No you can not.
الانسياب مصدر للفعل انساب واسم الفاعل منه مُنساب while السيْب can be one of two: either  مصدر للفعل ساب واسم الفاعل منه سائب and that is a different verb with different meanings and even the meaning that is related to water is usually used with different connotations; or it is a noun اسم بمعنى مجرى النهر وليس جريان الماء; i.e. it means "the river bed" not the flow of the water in the river.


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## Sadda7

Mahaodeh said:


> either مصدر للفعل ساب واسم الفاعل منه سائب and that is a different verb with different meanings and even the meaning that is related to water is usually used with different connotations


From lisan alarab root س ي ب: "والسَّيْبُ مصدر ساب الماءُ يَسِـيبُ سَيْباً: جَرى" also سابَ الماءُ وانْسابَ إِذا جرَى.


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## lukebeadgcf

Mahaodeh said:


> No you can not.



I defer to others on what's actually used since I'm likewise not familiar with this word, but lexicographers have included this meaning:

تاج العروس (سيب)


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## Mahaodeh

I'm sorry but I didn't contradict that, I did say that they are two different verbs so you can't use the maSdar of one for the other, and I did say that one of the meanings is related to water with different connotations. I checked Al Lisaan too. Frankly though not the Taaj. I just pointed out the obvious, the two are not interchangeable so you can not use one instead of the other.

ساب الماء does not give the same connotation as انساب الماء; the second is flowing while the first is more like flooding without the destruction!

I also noted the very important point: السيب also means "riverbed", this use is more common as the verb ساب الماء is much less commonly used than ساب الولد سيبانا فأصبح سائبا أو سابت الغنم في المرعى الخ; a different meaning and a different مصدر.


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## lukebeadgcf

This entry made me squeal but I think the point is that الزبيدي finds that انساب and ساب have the same meaning with relation to water:

التاج:





And Lane appears to agree, though I don't understand the difference between "ran" and "ran of itself":


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## Mahaodeh

I know they keep saying that ساب كانساب; but look at the uses and examples, they are not the same. I mean why did he say انسابت في بطنه حية and he did not say سابت في بطنه حية? It's because: أي دخلت وجرت مع جريان الماء - as I explained earlier الانسياب is to flow _with _something not _through _it! There is in fact a clear difference in the examples even if the author of the Taaj didn't specifically mention it (or maybe he was too busy to notice it).


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## lukebeadgcf

Perhaps, prescriptively speaking, انساب is an "incorrectly formed" word in the first place since ساب does not take an object. 

Wright vol. I § 53:


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## Sadda7

Mahaodeh said:


> I explained earlier الانسياب is to flow _with _something not _through _it!


We are talking about the flowing of water, I don't think flowing through sth or with sth matters. Even the defitions of the word Rea which is a variant of the greek word Rhea didn't say more than the flowing of water, from wikipedia: 





> Some ancient etymologists derived _Rhea_ (_Ῥέα_) (by metathesis) from _ἔρα_, "ground";[1] the same suggest also modern scholars[2], although a tradition embodied in Plato[3] and in Chrysippus[4] connected the word with ῥέω (_rheo_), "flow", "discharge",[5] which is what _LSJ_ supports.[6] Alternatively, the name _Rhea_ may be connected with words for the pomegranate, ῥόα, later ῥοιά.
> 
> The name _Rhea_ may ultimately derive from a pre-Greek or Minoan source.[7][8][9] Graves suggested that Rhea's name is probably a variant of Era, 'earth'.[10]


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## lukebeadgcf

I found two modern poems that use the expression ماء سائب:

وأسيل وجنتيها جمر
يجدد دوامات ترسم صورتها ماء سائب

أو ما ترى دِلّاعتَيْنِ تسامتا من فوق مجرى شرب ماء سائب

I also found this حديث that uses the expression يسيب الماء with the apparent meaning of "seep through" or "flow through."

وإنما يفعل ذلك لئلا يسيب الماء من خصائص الحجارة.


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## Sadda7

I also found some words that have the meaning of "flowing water" that are close to سَيْب, which are:
سَيْح, سَيْع, سَيْل
Other words: الغَيْل, الفَتْح, الطَّسْل from Lisan Alarab


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## djara

lukebeadgcf said:


> and not any I can think of on the pattern انفعال


انتصار، انشراح، انتظار are the female first names I can think of in this context.


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## lukebeadgcf

djara said:


> انشراح



You're right, I missed this one! Technically, I think انتصار would be on افتعال rather than انفعال.


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## MaricaRea

I want to thank you all for being so helpful with my research. For now, I thing the option I prefer is انسياب المياه until new interesting forms. 
I suppose for you could be an hobby or passion, but I do want to say that I really appreciated your contribution... Thank you!


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