# Family 'crimes'



## maxiogee

Following a consideration of this post......



Kajjo said:


> When I lived in London with a typical English family, their ten-year girl _once_ just ran past the dining room where her parents and I were sitting. She only wore a pyjama. She was severely beaten as her behaviour was considered outrageously offending. It seems to me that the fashions must be very differently in other parts of the world.
> 
> Kajjo


 

.......I wonder what crimes would rate a severe ..... in your family. _Please_ _note_ that I'm *not* interested in the form the discipline would take and hope that that does not become an issue here. 
Please don't tell us how you reprimand or were reprimanded.​​I'm more interested in this ten-year-old's offence - would it have caused your parents to deal with you in a 'severe' manner compared to other offences?

In my family of origin lying was probably the gravest offence we children got hauled up for regularly. Insolence was another - and that could vary alarmingly. What was 'banter' one week might be 'insolence' the next.

Inappropriate clothing in front of visitors would hardly have raised much alarm - but a rushed instruction to "Go and dress properly" would be issued.


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## Kajjo

maxiogee said:


> Inappropriate clothing in front of visitors would hardly have raised much alarm - but a rushed instruction to "Go and dress properly" would be issued.


The same in Germany, both fourty years ago and now.

Kajjo


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## John-Paul

So you're just sitting there, while a ten year old receives corporal punishment for wearing pj's? At what time were you planning to take action? The family is not an autonomous body, it needs to respect the laws of the land, child abuse is illegal in Western democracies.


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## Bilma

When I was a girl the worst you could do was to talk back to your parents. You were supposed to be quiet and listen to all the lecture. Saying bad words was a big no-no too.


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## Kajjo

John-Paul said:


> So you're just sitting there, while a ten year old receives corporal punishment for wearing pj's? At what time were you planning to take action? The family is not an autonomous body, it needs to respect the laws of the land, child abuse is illegal in Western democracies.


Actually I discussed the issue of frequent beating with my English colleagues and they assured me that was absolutely normal and nothing to be alarmed by. It didn't harm them when they were children, and it won't harm children now. What from a German perspective might be violent appears to be acceptable in England. The family's mother summarised it with "Life is not supposed to be fun."

Scary.

Kajjo


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## maxiogee

John-Paul said:


> So you're just sitting there, while a ten year old receives corporal punishment for wearing pj's? At what time were you planning to take action? The family is not an autonomous body, it needs to respect the laws of the land, child abuse is illegal in Western democracies.


 
John-Paul - I particularly asked that the thread not be sidetracked!  

Please don't go there.
This thread is not about that.
The post came up in a different thread.
Ask there, or start a new thread.


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## Etcetera

maxiogee said:


> Inappropriate clothing in front of visitors would hardly have raised much alarm - but a rushed instruction to "Go and dress properly" would be issued.


Same here.
I'm against punishing children physically, and especially for such 'crimes'. And especially when this crime is 'committed' for the first time. Talk to your child and explain to him or her why it's inappropriate to appear before guests in pyjamas. That should do.


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## badgrammar

With my own children, I'd have to say (big) lies, stealing, cruelty in any form, and overt insolence.  I can tolerate a little talking-back, it's a normal way of asserting oneself, but I draw the line at insults, terms such as "shut up", and speaking to adults in a dismissive/rude manner.


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## John-Paul

Apologies.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=305654


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## .   1

maxiogee said:


> I particularly asked that the thread not be sidetracked!


It's more than a little irritating isn't! What is the sound of a pot calling to a kettle?
Lying was the only offence of any note.
The rest was folderol.

.,,


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## swift_precision

Lying? How about stealing or fighting? Those two things alone definately would resulted in punishment.


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## .   1

swift_precision said:


> Lying? How about stealing or fighting?


When we were kids my dad didn't bother to lock the doors because he reckoned that anybody who was harder up than us was welcome to whatever they could find.
We grew up in the bush where everybody knew everybody and any kid who stole anything was soon identified.  We weren't mugs.  What's the point of stealing something if you can't use it?

My brother and I regularly tried to kill each other but the injuries never took and the only time that we caught trouble were those increasingly diminishing times that we tried to shift the blame.

Lying to my parents was the only crime.



swift_precision said:


> Those two things alone definately would resulted in punishment.


What is the point in a parent punishing a child?

.,,


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## swift_precision

. said:


> When we were kids my dad didn't bother to lock the doors because he reckoned that anybody who was harder up than us was welcome to whatever they could find.
> We grew up in the bush where everybody knew everybody and any kid who stole anything was soon identified. We weren't mugs. What's the point of stealing something if you can't use it?
> 
> My brother and I regularly tried to kill each other but the injuries never took and the only time that we caught trouble were those increasingly diminishing times that we tried to shift the blame.
> 
> Lying to my parents was the only crime.
> 
> What is the point in a parent punishing a child?
> 
> .,,


 
hehe you are raising another point which I will not address in this thread, but the word I should've used is "disciplined". Also by fighting I did not necessarily mean with your siblings but rather at school for example.


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## .   1

swift_precision said:


> hehe you are raising another point which I will not address in this thread, but the word I should've used is "disciplined". Also by fighting I did not necessarily mean with your siblings but rather at school for example.


What lived at school died at school. I went to a Roman Catholic school run by highly disciplining Irish monks. My parents were happy for me to get away with what I could at school and my father once had a nose to nose discussion with my English teacher in front of the class where dad showed this bloke his teeth and firmly instructed that my father would be present if the teacher found it necesary to physically discipline me after this burke broke a finger of one of my class mates.

We had no crimes within our family and us kids could just run home and blurt out whatever was troubling us and know that we would not be judged.

The very concept of 'family crimes' brings with it the notion of 'family punishment' just like a balled fist in a mailed gauntlet.

.,,


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## french4beth

With my kids, lying is definitely unacceptable - after all, the lies always get discovered! I tell them just to tell me up front - that way, they don't have to agonize & get upset stomachs, and on top of that, have to face my being disappointed with them. I also have tried to modify my own behavior, and not fly off the handle. I want my kids to be comfortable coming to me with anything, from world politics to self-medication questions, etc... I 'd rather that they be well-informed, even if there are occasional awkward moments ("Mommy, what does #$%&* mean?"). 

I also don't tolerate hitting, slapping, kicking, or other mean-spirited behavior. Time spent alone is the biggest punishment --- as they usually have a great time together! They usually end up seeking each other out (even if one of them is having "alone" time to calm down or contemplate their transgression).


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## ILT

When I was a child, lying and using foul language were the biggest crimes a child could commit, along with talking back to an adult; in fact, as far as I can recall, it was the same in most households I frequented.

Nowadays, I still think foul language, disrespect and lying are big crimes. 

Had I shown in inappropriate attire in front of guests, my parents wouldn't have scolded me but given me "the look", and without saying any words send me back to my room to change my clothes. "The talk" would follow after the guests left


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## ElaineG

Lying, if caught, was a definitely a biggie.  But my parents were very trusting or gullible or something, and this didn't come up much.

Making a huge mess/failing to pick up after ourselves/failing to clean up the kitchen after our after school snacking binges always got my father ticked off.  As we got older, he would regularly put the dirty dishes we left around the downstairs in our bedrooms as a kind of none too subtle hint.

Not keeping the family pets' litter clean, water filled etc. after we promised to care for them scrupulously as a condition of getting them was another biggie.

When we got to high school, the "crimes" usually involved alcohol, cigarettes, having people over to party as soon as my parents dared leave the house for dinner/an evening out or god forbid, a weekend away.  Those were pretty huge crimes, and the amount of grounding, allowance docking and extra chores that went during those years made the Federal Sentencing Guidelines look lenient.

Language was not an offence in my household, and both my brother and I were always much more concerned with proper attire than our free to be you and me parents, so that one never came up for us.


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## vachecow

maxiogee said:


> In my family of origin lying was probably the gravest offence we children got hauled up for regularly.
> 
> Inappropriate clothing in front of visitors would hardly have raised much alarm - but a rushed instruction to "Go and dress properly" would be issued.



Lying was one of the worst things I could ever do.

The only reason I would have gotten in trouble for wearing pjs would be if my parents were meeting with important people and had specifically told me to wear something nice, but they wouldn't have been that mad.


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## alexacohen

When I was young the worst offence was lying and playing instead of studying. And breaking things that we were not supossed to touch but that,of course, were the most attactive to be touched. And inevitably, we broke them. The punishment was to go to our room and think about it. And our pocket money was taken from us to pay for the broken thing. I spent my childhood without pocket money.
Clothes was not an issue. 
Alexa


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## panjabigator

> .......I wonder what crimes would rate a severe ..... in your family.



Lying is a definite sin in my house.  Being vulgar to my parents (though I've never done it and neither has my sister) would get me killed.  Disrespect is also pretty serious. Those would definitely warrant an "ass-whopping."


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## Brioche

vachecow said:


> Lying was one of the worst things I could ever do.
> 
> The only reason I would have gotten in trouble for wearing pjs would be if my parents were meeting with important people and had specifically told me to wear something nice, but they wouldn't have been that mad.




Did your parents ever lie to you?

Did they tell you directly, or lead you to believe, the bare-faced lie that Santa Claus/Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny were real?

My mother was very upset as a young girl when she found out that her parents had lied to her in the matter of Father Christmas.

She said that she would not lie to her children in the same way.  When I was a child I knew that Father Christmas was "just pretend". But I still went to see the Father Christmas in the big shops, and tell him what I wanted for Christmas.  Similarly, we played the Tooth Fairy game, and the Easter Bunny game, but we knew it was just a game.

I did the same with my children.


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## badgrammar

Good on you, Brioche.  That whole big lie about those things tormented me - and I did it anyway, and they believed when they were little.  But as soon as they asked the first time if it was true, I said "no".  

That's why I said in my previous post that I don't necessarily get angry over a little lie ("did you eat that chocolate?", or "who forgot to flush the toilet?") to which a common reply would be "Wad'n me...!".  But the important stuff is quite another matter.  I'm sure many would disagree on my lax attitude in that department, but I've been known to let the truth get a little cloudy sometimes.  It would be hypocritical....


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## french4beth

Brioche said:


> Did your parents ever lie to you? *Yes*!
> 
> Did they tell you directly, or lead you to believe, the bare-faced lie that Santa Claus/Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny were real? *Ditto*!
> 
> My mother was very upset as a young girl when she found out that her parents had lied to her in the matter of Father Christmas. She said that she would not lie to her children in the same way. When I was a child I knew that Father Christmas was "just pretend". But I still went to see the Father Christmas in the big shops, and tell him what I wanted for Christmas. Similarly, we played the Tooth Fairy game, and the Easter Bunny game, but we knew it was just a game. I did the same with my children. *Same here - and I never tortured my children by saying: "If you're not good, ___ will not come!" as I found that to be equally distasteful - I always told my kids, Christmas is about giving to others, and that Santa Claus had lots of helpers (in malls, etc). *


 
I also agree with badgrammar - I used to flip out if my kids lied to me - then one day, a health professional told me that it was perfectly normal for kids to lie since they don't want to get themselves into trouble, it's not a sign of a serious character flaw 


> That's why I said in my previous post that I don't necessarily get angry over a little lie ("did you eat that chocolate?", or "who forgot to flush the toilet?") to which a common reply would be "Wad'n me...!". But the important stuff is quite another matter. I'm sure many would disagree on my lax attitude in that department, but I've been known to let the truth get a little cloudy sometimes. It would be hypocritical....


As with anything, you need to pick your battles...


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## Etcetera

I love translating said:


> When I was a child, lying and using foul language were the biggest crimes a child could commit, along with talking back to an adult; in fact, as far as I can recall, it was the same in most households I frequented.


It's precisely the same here. 
Also, not using polite words is considering bad here. Children are taught to say 'Please' and 'Thank you' on the smallest occasions (and I think it's good).


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