# I leave tomorrow night - Why not 'I'm leaving'?



## zaffy

This guy is talking about his plans and says "I leave tomorrow night". Why did he use the simple present? It's 0 point in an exam. Grammar says we use the present continuos for future arrangements. So why not "I'm leaving tomorrow night"?  Or is that his regular activity like in the timetable?


----------



## Barque

It's a variation of "I'm leaving tomorrow night". I'm not sure if it's classified as casual but it's something people do say.


----------



## Loob

zaffy said:


> It's 0 point in an exam.


Why? There's nothing incorrect about it.


----------



## JulianStuart

Bad exam.  It's quite normal.


----------



## dojibear

zaffy said:


> Why did he use the simple present?


People say many different things. People don't always say the same thing. In English there is very often 2 or more correct ways to say something. For example, he might say:

I leave tomorrow night.
I will leave tomorrow night.
I'm leaving tomorrow night.
I plan to leave tomorrow night.



zaffy said:


> Grammar says we use the present continuous for future arrangements.


Grammar says "we *can* do that". It might even say "we often do that". 
But any grammar that says "we only do that" or "we always do that" is incorrect.


----------



## zaffy

Loob said:


> Why? There's nothing incorrect about it.



Well, it really is according to grammar rules. Talknig about future arrangements uses the present continuous. Just like asking "What are you doing tomorrow night?", not "What do you do tomorrow night?"


----------



## heypresto

You have a choice of ways to say the same thing:

I'm leaving tomorrow night. 
I'll be leaving tomorrow night.  
I'm going to be leaving tomorrow night. 

I leave tomorrow night. 

Cross-posted.


----------



## Loob

zaffy said:


> Loob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? There's nothing incorrect about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it really is.
Click to expand...

You're telling me what's correct & incorrect usage in my native language?


----------



## dojibear

zaffy said:


> Well, it really is according to grammar rules. Talknig about future arrangements uses the present continuous.


Sometimes it does. That's correct. That does not say "only". That does not say "you *cannot* use something else".


----------



## zaffy

Loob said:


> You're telling me what's correct & incorrect usage in my native language?



Now I do realise you use that form but I'm taking about grammar rules taught in EFL.  I've been with exams for ages and that would be just incorrect.


----------



## dojibear

Remember that a grammar *copies* a language, or *tries to explain* a language. A grammar isn't a language. It isn't real. It is a simplified explanation of a complicated thing.

There are multiple grammars of English, not just one. Each grammar was created by a different group of people. The grammars don't all agree. So you should say "my grammar says", not "grammar says". 

Getting back to the original question: there is no reason for the speaker to know the rules of your grammar, or to follow those rules. If this EFL grammar helps students learn to speak English, that is wonderful. In this case, the grammar teaches a correct use that students learn. Great! The only mistake is imagining that it is the only correct use.


----------



## Loob

And plenty of EFL/ESL textbooks cover this usage.


----------



## zaffy

Yeah, I know we teach and are taught an artificial language. Anyway, if you're saying the Simple Present is possible for future arrangements, do you like this?

A: What do you do tomorrow night?
B: I watch a match. Come over to my place.


----------



## elroy

zaffy said:


> like in the timetable?


 This is it.  The present simple is acceptable because it’s not only a planned activity, but one that is externally scheduled (the speaker has no say in the matter).  No grammar book worth its salt would condemn this usage.


----------



## bwac14

zaffy said:


> A: What do you do tomorrow night?
> B: I watch a match. Come over to my place.


This is incorrect.


----------



## zaffy

bwac14 said:


> Both of these are incorrect.



This is why I'm surprised you say "I leave tomorrow night"

These are some of many sources that confirm the present continuous, not simple, is used for future arrangements. Such things are taught in EFL classes and, as mentioned earlier, a student gets 0 point if you use the simple present. Well, life ain't easy.

Present Continuous Present continuous ( I am working ) - English Grammar Today - Cambridge Dictionary
Present Simple Present simple ( I work ) - English Grammar Today - Cambridge Dictionary


----------



## elroy

zaffy said:


> This is why I'm surprised you say "I leave tomorrow night"


 Did you see my post?


----------



## zaffy

elroy said:


> Did you see my post?



Yeah, I only read it. That is what I asked earlier if that perhpas was his schedule. But from what I read earlier in this thread, natives say so even if there is no schedule.


----------



## elroy

zaffy said:


> natives say so even if there is no schedule.


 Can you give an example?


----------



## bwac14

zaffy said:


> This is why I'm surprised you say "I leave tomorrow night"


Here is an explanation from the British Council's website:


> 1. We use the *present simple* for something *scheduled*:
> 
> 
> 
> _We *have* a lesson next Monday.
> The train *arrives* at 6.30 in the morning.
> The holidays *start *next week.
> It*'s* my birthday tomorrow._
> 
> 
> 
> 2. We can use the *present continuous* for *plans or arrangements*:
> 
> 
> 
> _I*'m playing* football tomorrow.
> They *are coming* to see us tomorrow.
> We*'re having* a party at Christmas._
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## zaffy

elroy said:


> Can you give an example?



That's what I understood from the posts earlier in the thread.


----------



## elroy

zaffy said:


> That's what I understood from the posts earlier in the thread.


 What gave you that impression?


----------



## Barque

zaffy said:


> A: What do you do tomorrow night?
> B: I watch a match. Come over to my place.


"I watch a match" could work in a different context.

_What're you planning to do in London?
I'm there for five days. On the first day I have a full English breakfast. On the second day I have warm beer. On the third I go to look at the queen. On the fourth I watch a football match. On the fifth, I do nothing at all._


----------



## bwac14

Barque said:


> "I watch a match" could work in a different context.
> 
> _What're you planning to do in London?
> I'm there for five days. On the first day I have a full English breakfast. On the second day I have warm beer. On the third I go to look at the queen. On the fourth I watch a football match. On the fifth, I do nothing at all._


Unless these are scheduled things on the itinerary, this would be incorrect, as these are just things you are planning to do, I assume. And regardless, I probably would never say it like this, but maybe it is different in British English.


----------



## zaffy

elroy said:


> What gave you that impression?



I asked if it was a future arrangement or something scheduled in #1. And I wasn't told (before your post) that it was ok because it seemed to have been part of schedule  But I get it now. Anyway, believe me or not, it is really 0 point in an exam


----------



## Barque

bwac14 said:


> Unless these are scheduled things on the itinerary, this would be incorrect, as these are just things you are planning to do,


A schedule is, generally, a schedule of things you plan to do, so I don't get the distinction you're making. 

The person in the OP, when he said "I leave tomorrow night", is also talking of what he plans to do.


----------



## heypresto

Your British Council quote says "We *can* use the present continuous for plans or arrangements." (My bold)

It doesn't say 'We *only *use . . . ', or 'We *must *use . . . '.


----------



## Loob

zaffy said:


> believe me or not,


I'm afraid I don't believe you.

If you want to explore further, there are many previous threads about the use of the present simple for future time.


----------



## bwac14

heypresto said:


> Your British Council quote says "We *can* use the present continuous for plans or arrangements." (My bold)
> 
> It doesn't say 'We *only *use . . . ', or 'We *must *use . . . '.


Yes, you are right, but I didn't say we must use the present continuous for plans or arrangements. I said that we *don't use* the present simple for plans or arrangements, as was used in post #23. Unless I was reading what I was going to do each day off a schedule or something, I would use the simple future:

On the first day_ I'll have / I'm going to have _a full English breakfast ...


----------



## elroy

The distinction is as I described: 


elroy said:


> not only a planned activity, but one that is externally scheduled (the speaker has no say in the matter)


 The present simple works when something has to occur at a specific time and the timing is fixed beyond your control.  If you make your own plans and the timing is flexible, the present simple doesn’t work — at least in US English.


----------



## Barque

elroy said:


> The present simple works when something has to occur at a specific time and the timing is fixed beyond your control.


It's not beyond his control. Sure, the flight that he's supposed to leave on may take off whether he wants it to or not, but he may change his mind about getting onto it.


bwac14 said:


> Unless I was reading what I was going to do each day off a schedule or something,


What I posted in #23 _is_ a schedule. It's also a plan. No reason it can't be both. If you don't object to "I leave tomorrow" as in the OP, I'm not sure how you could object to "On the first day I have a full English breakfast". If it's because it seems an unlikely thing to specifically schedule, try replacing it with "On the first day I walk around the city". In terms of structure there's no difference.


----------



## elroy

Barque said:


> the flight that he's supposed to leave on may take off whether he wants it to or not


 This is what matters.  The fact that he may change his mind doesn’t matter for the choice of tense.


Barque said:


> try replacing it with "On the first day I walk around the city". In terms of structure there's no difference.


 Right, no difference.  It doesn’t work any more or any less than the other one.


----------



## Justrynnalearn

heypresto said:


> You have a choice of ways to say the same thing:
> 
> I'm leaving tomorrow night.
> I'll be leaving tomorrow night.
> I'm going to be leaving tomorrow night.
> 
> I leave tomorrow night.
> 
> Cross-posted.


Now I’m confused, could “I’ll leave tomorrow night” be an option too or not?


----------



## Barque

elroy said:


> This is what matters.  The fact that he may change his mind doesn’t matter for the choice of tense.
> Right, no difference.  It doesn’t work any more or any less than the other one.


I'm confused then. Are you saying you agree with Zaffy or that you disagree?


----------



## elroy

Barque said:


> Are you saying you agree with Zaffy or that you disagree?


 On what point?


----------



## Barque

On whether "I leave tomorrow" is correct or not.


----------



## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> I asked if it was a future arrangement or something scheduled in #1. And I wasn't told (before your post) that it was ok because it seemed to have been part of schedule  But I get it now. Anyway, believe me or not, it is really 0 point in an exam


We get quite a few threads about things that are taught as "rules" - for the purposes of teaching a complex and _flexible_ language of grammar - and exams based on those "rules" will be graded accordingly.  That doesn't mesan they are (always) right.  They have often been simplified or described as "black and white" when they are grey and the subtleties are hard to teach to early (or even intermediate) learners. Will vs going to is a very common example. That is one of the reasons this site was created


----------



## elroy

Barque said:


> On whether "I leave tomorrow" is correct or not.


 It’s correct if it’s externally scheduled.


----------



## Barque

I'm saying it's correct if the speaker means "I'm leaving tomorrow". I don't understand what you mean by "externally scheduled". He may be planning to fly to a different country. Or he may be planning to walk to a neighbouring town. How does it make a difference?


----------



## elroy

This is what I mean: 





elroy said:


> The present simple works when something has to occur at a specific time and the timing is fixed beyond your control. If you make your own plans and the timing is flexible, the present simple doesn’t work — at least in US English.


----------



## Barque

The timing is not fixed beyond his control, and in any case it still doesn't make a difference.

So according to you:
If someone's been convicted of murder and is due to be hanged the next day, he could say while in his cell, "I get hanged tomorrow" because it's totally beyond his control.
But if he's planning to fly from London to Athens the next day, he can't say "I leave tomorrow", because he's free to change his plan.

Sorry, I don't see the difference. I think the present simple works in both cases, though an unlikely thing to say in the first. I chose that example because it's something beyond his control. But according to you it's acceptable only in the first.


----------



## elroy

It’s not about whether _the choice to do the thing_ is beyond your control; it’s about whether _the timing_ is beyond your control.


----------



## bwac14

Barque said:


> But if he's planning to fly from London to Athens the next day, he can't say "I leave tomorrow", because he's free to change his plan.


If he is planning to, then no, you can't say that. No native would ever say, "I leave tomorrow," unless they have already booked the plane tickets, in which case, they are no longer planning to fly, but are scheduled to fly.


----------



## Barque

bwac14 said:


> in which case, they are no longer planning to fly, but are scheduled to fly.


That sounds like a contradiction to me. _I'm not planning to go, but I'm going. _


----------



## Barque

elroy said:


> it’s about whether _the timing_ is beyond your control.


If someone's due to be hanged at 6 am the next day, the timing _is_ beyond his control.

Are you saying both sentences in #41 work for you? In that case we seem to agree.


----------



## bwac14

Barque said:


> That sounds like a contradiction to me. _I'm not planning to go, but I'm going. _


Plan has more than one definition:

1._ As a verb_: to think carefully about something you want to do, and decide how and when you will do it; you don't know when you are going to do it or if you will even do it at all: *can't* use present simple

2. _As an adjective_: But if something is _planned_, it is: arranged, organized; you already know when you are going to do it : *can* use present simple

You are referring to the second definition of plan, while I have been referring to the first definition of plan.


----------



## Barque

No, I'm referring to the first too.

We don't know for sure what the man in the OP means. But if he says "I leave tomorrow", it strongly suggests he's decided to leave tomorrow, and is unlikely to change his mind unless something comes up.

Perhaps he means: _I've decided to leave tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet._
Or perhaps he means: _I'm definitely leaving tomorrow. I've booked my ticket. _

Are you saying that in the first case, he can't say "I leave tomorrow", but in the second he can?


----------



## bwac14

Barque said:


> Are you saying that in the first case, he can't say "I leave tomorrow", but in the second he can?


Yes, that's what I'm saying. 
It is unnatural to say: "I leave tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet." 
But if you wanted, you could say: "I'm leaving tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet." 

That's what the grammar rules say is correct and that's what sounds right to me as a native speaker, so let's just leave it at that.


----------



## Barque

bwac14 said:


> It is unnatural to say: "I leave tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet."


That's not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth. 


bwac14 said:


> that's what sounds right to me as a native speaker, so let's just leave it at that.


I understand you  might want to have the last word but please don't suggest to me that I stop posting. I'm as entitled to post as you are.


----------



## bwac14

Barque said:


> That's not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth.


You asked if in the first case, it could be used:


Barque said:


> Perhaps he means: _I've decided to leave tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet._
> Or perhaps he means: _I'm definitely leaving tomorrow. I've booked my ticket. _
> 
> Are you saying that in the first case, he can't say "I leave tomorrow", but in the second he can?


----------



## JulianStuart

bwac14 said:


> It is unnatural to say: "I leave tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet."
> But if you wanted, you could say: "I'm leaving tomorrow but I haven't booked a ticket yet."
> 
> That's what the grammar rules say is correct and that's what sounds right to me as a native speaker, so let's just leave it at that.


I would not find that first one unusual.  It happened to me once  I was in a business meeting and it was determined by the project team leaders that I _had_ to go to Paris the next day. I wasn't taught English grammar rules and it sound fine to my native ear. The second version is also OK.


----------



## Barque

Yes, that was to suggest something he may have meant. I didn't use the exact sentence that you marked with a cross. In any case, I think it's possible to say you leave tomorrow even if you haven't booked a ticket.

Cross-posted.


----------



## zaffy

So if you guys find "I leave tomorrow night" natural, would you find a question using the simple present natural as well?

A: How long are here for?
B: Well, actually, I've been here for a few days and the stay is almost over.
A:* So when do you leave?*
B: Well, I leave tomorrow night. Hope to come back here next year.


----------



## Barque

zaffy said:


> So when do you leave?


Yes, this is fine. However your earlier example in #13, "What do you do tomorrow?" would work only if it means "What are you supposed to do tomorrow?" and not "What are you thinking of doing tomorrow?"


----------

