# Estonian: question about objekt



## Trauer

I'd like to ask about object in Estonian sentence, because my teachers haven't cleared this matter to me yet. 
Are there sentences in which it is possible to use object in singular genetive case or is partitive used most of the time, e.g. _Ostan raamatu*t*_? 
Perhaps it's not very wise of me, but I compare forms of object to the Finnish ones, which demand genetive case quite often, e.g. _Mä oon lukenut tämä*n* kirja*n* loppuun._


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## agriprop

Just FYI, in your Finnish example the objects are not in genitive case, but accusative.


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## Trauer

agriprop said:


> Just FYI, in your Finnish example the objects are not in genitive case, but accusative.



ok ok, genetive-looking accusative, whatever. The question wasn't about that though.


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## hollabooiers

I'm not a linguist by any means, so I'm not sure how accurate my explanations are going to be, but I might as well give it a try as a native speaker.

It seems it all depends on three things: the verb used, the meaning of the sentence, and whether or not the object in question is countable. Your example about buying a book actually takes genitive, not partitive, because books are countable objects. With verbs like to read (a book), to listen to (music) the object takes partitive, while with other verbs it depends on what you're trying to say. For example there's a difference between saying "I drank beer" (as in just generally had some) and "I drank a (bottle of) beer" (as in finished up a particular bottle) and in Estonian that difference is expressed by whether you use partitive or genitive.

_Ostan raamat*u*_ - genitive, I by a book
_Loen raamatu*t*_ - partitive, I read a book
_Kirjutasin raamat*u*_ - genitive, I wrote a book (meaning I finished writing it)
_Kirjutasin raamatu*t*_ - partitive, I wrote a book (meaning I was at  a point in time busy with the act of writing a book, I didn't  necessarily finish)
_Ostan piima_ ("*overlong ii*") - partitive (as opposed to "long ii" were it genitive), I buy milk, which is an uncountable object

I hope that all made at least a little sense?


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## Hakro

Did I understand right?

_Ostan raamatu*t*_. Incorrect.

_Ostan raamatu._ I buy a book. OK.

Then how do you say in Estonian:
- I buy (several) books. Finnish: Ostan (useita) kirjoja.
- I buy (those) books. Finnish: Ostan (nuo) kirjat.


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## Trauer

hollabooiers said:


> _Kirjutasin raamat*u*_ - genitive, I wrote a book (meaning I finished writing it)
> _Kirjutasin raamatu*t*_ - partitive, I wrote a book (meaning I was at  a point in time busy with the act of writing a book, I didn't  necessarily finish)
> _Ostan piima_ ("*overlong ii*") - partitive (as opposed to "long ii" were it genitive), I buy milk, which is an uncountable object
> 
> I hope that all made at least a little sense?



Aitäh! 
Yeah, it does make sense. So now I know it's the same thing about partitive and unfinnished action as it is in Finnish, the same with uncountable objects.

On the other hand I've noticed that rules about object's case aren't necessarily as difficult in Estonian as they are in Finnish (for foreigner obviously).
Are there rules in Estonian like: in negative, passive and necessive ("have to do" - type) sentences there will be always object in partitive or nominative, never in genetive?

And Hakro's question about plural is what I wanted to ask about as well. 
Do you use plural partitive at all, because we haven't even learned it, as our teacher said that it is really unnecessary for us right now.


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## hollabooiers

Ah I just realized it's crap what I said about _ostan raamatut_ being incorrect. XD I'm sorry! It's almost always genitive, yes, but there are actually cases when partitive can be used here after all. About the only time I can imagine saying "Ma ostan raamatut" would be if say someone called me while I was buying a book and I explained to them what I was doing. Or maybe to answer a question like "So what were you doing yesterday when I called you?" - "Ostsin parajasti raamatut." 

So it seems the finished/unfinished action thing counts with buying countable objects as well. _Ostan raamatut_ can be correct as well, it just isn't in most situations.

Everything else I've said should be correct though. ... Or let's hope so anyway. 

To answer your question, Hakro:

_Ostan (mitme*id*__) raamatu*id* _(plural partitive). - I buy several books. This is only used as a really general way of saying "I buy books" though, you just buy some  abstract, non-specified books. If you're being more concrete (which happens more often than not), you use the next option.
_Ostan mitu raamatu*t* _(singular partitive). - I buy several books. This would be the  equivalent of the Finnish _ostan_ _monta kirjaa_.
_Ostan need raamatud_ (plural nominative). - I buy those books, same as in Finnish.

So it seems we do use plural partitive when it's all not that specific or with words like few/many/a lot of etc. As in _ostan palju raamatuid_ - I buy a lot of books. Yet with numbers and words like a couple it's always singular partitive. _Ostan kaks/viis/kaheksa/paar raamatu*t*._ Like just _two books_ is _kaks raamatu*t*_ and in the sentence "I buy two books." it just stays as it is: "Ma ostan kaks raamatut."

Now about that rule you mentioned, Trauer. It does seem to be true with negative (_ma ei osta raamatu*t*_; _sa ei söö porgandi*t*_) and passive (_ostetakse raamatu*t*__/raamat_; _süüakse porgandi*t*/porgand_), but when it comes to necessive the object seems to take both genitive and partitive (not nominative), depending on the meaning. As in _pean ostma raamat*u*/raamatu*t*_, _peame_ s_ööma _porgandi*t*/porgand*i*. Or maybe you had some specific examples you wanted to ask about?

But yes, from what I've seen, it's usually best not to rely on Finnish too much. Not that I'd know from personal experience, I can speak the language (I lived in Finland for a good few years as a child and it used to be kind of a second native language for me), but I've never payed attention to where which language uses which case, because I never really had to study it. It just seems the rules of one of the languages won't always work in the other one - a lot of them do, but there are always those random ones that don't.


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## Trauer

hollabooiers said:


> Now about that rule you mentioned, Trauer. It does seem to be true with negative (_ma ei osta raamatu*t*_; _sa ei söö porgandi*t*_) and passive (_ostetakse raamatu*t*__/raamat_; _süüakse porgandi*t*/porgand_), but when it comes to necessive the object seems to take both genitive and partitive (not nominative), depending on the meaning. As in _pean ostma raamat*u*/raamatu*t*_, _peame_ s_ööma _porgandi*t*/porgand*i*. Or maybe you had some specific examples you wanted to ask about?



Thanks so much for it!
Nope, I hade in mind just what you wrote 

But I remembered right now that there's one more case, when it's impossible to use genetive in Finnish - in imperative sentences. Is it the same in Estonian?


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## hollabooiers

You're very welcome. 

Yeap, no genitive for objects in imperative sentences. It's either nominative or partitive, _osta raamat_; _söö porgand/porgandi*t*_. I can't think of an example where you'd use partitive when it comes to buying books though (well except for negation, _ära osta raamatu*t*_), I guess it's the countable/uncountable nouns thing again.


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