# kotoba ni suru to kusai



## Locoidiomas

Well, I've found this case, and I really don't know how to procede on translating this.

There are several variations of the same usage:
０８年もたくさんの人に、愛だったり夢だったり、言葉にするとくさいけど、私は歌を通してそういう事を発信していきたいと思うので。

My guess at the meaning is this:
"This year 08, as well, although I suck at trying to express love or dreams in words to a crowd, I think I want to transmit such things (above stated) through my songs". 

It's just a guess and I'm not sure about how to translate "Takusan no hito ni" or "kotoba ni suru to kusai". The person saying this is a famous performer, Natsumi Abe, so I don't understand why she would say that she can't express love through words.


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## SpiceMan

No dice que se expresa mal sino que poner en palabras (los sentimientos/sensaciones) suena cursi/barato/de mal gusto pero es lo que quiere hacer.


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## Locoidiomas

I thought about that but that doesn't make much sense, why would she say that? She's an idol by the way.
(Could you please speak in lingua franca?)


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## Uttanasana

"Expressing things like love or dreams in words makes them sound a bit pretentious, but I would like to keep sending my messages about such topics to many people through my songs in 2008 also."

Japanese people don't normally express love or dreams in words (not to mention in actions).  I guess we tend to think that we should be discreet about such topics.


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## Flaminius

*Locoidiomas*, why do you wish *SpiceMan*'s post were in English when he was so nice to answer you in Spanish?

Takusan no hito ni:
_Takusanno_ is, as a whole, the adjective "many" and it is to be immediately followed by a noun phrase.  _Hito-ni_ is "to people."  Your "to a crowd" captures all key information.  The phrase itself is the indirect object of 発信する.

kotoba ni suru to kusai:
One of the derived meanings of the adjective _kusai_ is artificial, affected, ostensible and forced as opposed to natural, sincere, reserved and effortless.  Fishy or corny is the English word to translate with, I think.

I am still debating with myself what exactly _kotoba ni suru_ hear means.  Granted that literally it means to put an idea/feeling/emotion in words but I suspect it is more about uttering words like love and dreams.  Since J-POP singers like Miss Abe never shy away from singing about love and dreams in their performances, they certainly cannot be uncomfortable talking _about_ love and dreams.  Still if a lyric is full of "fishy words", one starts doubting what really the point is.


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## Ocham

"kusai" originally means "smelly" or just "Something smells.", but in this case it can never be explained in words because it is very slangy expression used only among young people. They feel it without deep meaning. All I can do is just give you the situation where it takes place.

Boy: I love you. I really love you from the bottom of my heart!
       I can't imagine the world without you. The world without you
       is nothing to me.
GIrl: _Kusa!_ You shouldn't have put it in words. I knew you love me.
      But I didn't want to hear it from your own mouth.

      *_kusa_ is a shortened form of adjective _kusai, _is quite commonly
       used in conversation.


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## Locoidiomas

Thanks for your suggestions to all of you.

I appreciate SpiceMan advises me in spanish but I'd like that our discussions could be understood by everyone. That's all.

Could any of you tell me why is it that is fishy to express in words your feelings?


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## Flaminius

Ocham said:


> "kusai" originally means "smelly" or just "Something smells.", but in this case it can never be explained in words because it is very slangy expression used only among young people.


A Buddhist essay first published in the 50s refers 臭い芝居.  It may be that the word gained popularity only lately but it has been around for some time in certain sectors of the speech community (the instance I mentioned above is in relation to a kabuki actor).  I am just wondering if _kusai_ in sense of sensing odour is too removed from _kusai_ in sense of fishy to be the direct source of the latter more specific sense.

One of the peripheral uses of 臭い is to make compound adjectives meaning "something-ish."  Some examples are: 素人くさい, うさんくさい, ばかくさい.  I don't really know for sure but 照れ臭い (embarrassing, feeling awkward, bashful) seems to be close enough to 臭い as in 臭い芝居, so the latter may be a shortened form of the former.  Just a wild guess.   

If, however, we allow the semantic transition from 臭い1 to 照れ臭い and 臭い2, we can account for how such an established and old word still retains the slangy air that *Ocham* (a belated welcome to you, by the way  ) was keen enough to sense.  The answer is that it was derived by abbreviation.



Locoidiomas said:


> Could any of you tell me why is it that is fishy to express in words your feelings?


A fuller answer would require a thread in the CD forum but here is a short answer.  Expressing one's *feeling* X by the *word* X can be incongruous, affected or pretentious because a word is NOT a feeling (or anything that it refers to).  Attitudes, body languages and choreography  can induce others into believing in one's feeling (perhaps where there is none) but one's words are the easiest to simulate.  I understand that cultures differ in the extent how verbal expressions of feelings are to be trusted but that is off topic in JP.


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## Aoyama

First of all, welcome to the Forum and congratulations to Uttanasana on a pertinent translation in English.
Secondly, on the subject of _kusai_ , what about _mizu kusai _...?

Moderator Note:
Please follow the link to discuss _mizu kusai_.


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## Hiro Sasaki

Locoidiomas said:


> Well, I've found this case, and I really don't know how to procede on translating this.
> 
> There are several variations of the same usage:
> ０８年もたくさんの人に、愛だったり夢だったり、言葉にするとくさいけど、私は歌を通してそういう事を発信していきたいと思うので。
> 
> My guess at the meaning is this:
> "This year 08, as well, although I suck at trying to express love or dreams in words to a crowd, I think I want to transmit such things (above stated) through my songs".
> 
> It's just a guess and I'm not sure about how to translate "Takusan no hito ni" or "kotoba ni suru to kusai". The person saying this is a famous performer, Natsumi Abe, so I don't understand why she would say that she can't express love through words.


 
"Kusai" must be accompanied by another word, for instance, うそくさい。
Ｂｕｔ，　in this case, "he meant kiza kurai ". There is no such Japanese 
word. Anyway, the Japanese sentence is not good. きざっぽく　聞こえるかも
しれないが。　Ｉｔ　means that it has a smack of xxx, lie in this case,
"Huele a mentira " (in Spanish) 

Hiro Sasaki


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## Hiro Sasaki

Hiro Sasaki said:


> "Kusai" must be accompanied by another word, for instance, うそくさい。
> Ｂｕｔ，　in this case, "he meant kiza kurai ". There is no such Japanese
> word. Anyway, the Japanese sentence is not good. きざっぽく　聞こえるかも
> しれないが。　Ｉｔ　means that it has a smack of xxx, lie in this case,
> "Huele a mentira " (in Spanish)
> 
> Hiro Sasaki


 
Sorry I was confused. " Kizappoku kikoeru " is better than " Uso kusai" 

Hiro Sasaki


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## Locoidiomas

Hi.
Thank you very much for your help.
I haven't understand very well what you've said, because you state that she meant "kiza kurai" but then you add that this is a non-existant sentence. How's that? And in the end, how is it not a good usage?


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## Flaminius

Hello *Locoidiomas*,

 I have an eerie feeling that I sawed seeds of confusion in this thread when I tried to etymologise this expression. I feel bad.  

I suggested that くさい in sense of being pretentious may have started out as an abbreviation of compound adjectives such as 照れ臭い.  Today, however, the unmodified くさい is a legitimate reference to artificial attitudes.

I couldn't locate anything in the two dictionary I first looked up the 臭い as used in this thread but I checked a third dictionary (『現代国語例解辞典』 小学館) and found this as part of the definition of the adjective くさい.


> 洗練されていない。大げさでわざとらしい。「臭い芸」「臭い演技」


This usage may yet to be incorporated in the standard use of Japanese.  The dictionary I quoted above is a minority.  Most dictionaries do not recognise that a stand-alone くさい has a secondary (or tertiary  ) meaning of "pretentious."  The following comment by *Hiro Sasaki* may be hinting at the same point (*Hiro*, please feel free to comment if I misunderstood you):


			
				Hiro Sasaki said:
			
		

> "Kusai" must be accompanied by another word, for instance, うそくさい。(...) Anyway, the Japanese sentence is not good.



Given that the sentence under discussion was made in an interview without much formality required, I find Miss Abe's casual choice of words natural.


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