# 好了啦!



## xiaolijie

Hi, I came across this phrase and I wonder how common it is to see 啦 immediately following 了 (I assume that 啦 a variation of 了 itself?). The actual sentence I saw was: 好了啦，不跟你讨论了，免得气死我自己！

A secondary question is, from the looks of it, I guess that this sentence is very likely to be from a young, female speaker in a very informal situation. Would this be correct?

Thank you!


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## swim4life

Ha! You are right Xiaolijie. It means "okay, okay..." When the young, female ladies发嗲（well, I don't know the English for 发嗲），they like to speak this way...but don't speak this way, if you are an adult male...)

By the way, your name "xiaolijie" sounds like "小丽姐". :-D


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## xiaolijie

Thank you!
I'd translate 发嗲 as "try to be cute" but since I haven't seen many examples, I can't be absolutely sure. 


> By the way, your name "xiaolijie" sounds like "小丽姐". :-D


Is that a female name? And is it a popular? As for my username, I still don't know what it should stand for, but to me, it sounds like 小小理解


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## viajero_canjeado

I hear the 了啦 sentence ender fairly often, such as in the phrase 可以了啦！ It doesn't seem to be limited to female speakers only, from my observations. I even say it sometimes.. hope I don't give folks the wrong impression. 

I fancy that it has sort of a "yeah-huh!" tint to it. "Yeah-huh" is something kids said when I was coming up to mean "actually, contrary to what you assert, what I initially said is verifiably true." It's just kind of a mouthful to say all that, especially for a kid who's got other things to do, like play kickball, so "yeah-huh" was normally used instead. It's kind of like the way "si" is used in French. (ie. A: Non, c'est pas vrai. B: Si, c'est vrai! Je t'assure!) Do kids in England say yeah-huh?

Sorry for the digression. ::snaps out of nostalgic reverie and floats neatly back into reality::


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## Razzle Storm

viajero_canjeado said:


> I hear the 了啦 sentence ender fairly often, such as in the phrase 可以了啦！ It doesn't seem to be limited to female speakers only, from my observations. I even say it sometimes.. hope I don't give folks the wrong impression.



You're actually fine in Taiwan. 啦 is used by men and women there, and it's one of the reasons mainlanders view Taiwan males as "girly". 

@xiaolijie: I think "trying to be cute" is a great (if slightly sardonic ) translation of  发嗲. The style of speech is mainly used by 娇气/做作的"淑女", at least in my experience. I personally can't stand it, but it does seem to be popular enough to have a certain stereotype associated with it.


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## Ghabi

Razzle Storm said:


> You're actually fine in Taiwan. 啦 is used by men and women there, and it's one of the reasons mainlanders view Taiwan males as "girly".


I was about to write the same thing, but then thought that that may just be a kind of stereotyping. My exposure to Taiwanese Mandarin is limited to game shows and soap operas, where people speak in a very cute way, and I always wonder whether people really speak like that in real life.


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## viajero_canjeado

Ghabi said:


> I was about to write the same thing, but then thought that that may just be a kind of stereotyping. My exposure to Taiwanese Mandarin is limited to game shows and soap operas, where people speak in a very cute way, and I always wonder whether people really speak like that in real life.



Funny, because all the Taiwanese soaps I've seen have been in Taiwanese; I reckon the Mandarin ones are for export only..


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## Ghabi

viajero_canjeado said:


> Funny, because all the Taiwanese soaps I've seen have been in Taiwanese; I reckon the Mandarin ones are for export only..


You mean Hokkien?


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## viajero_canjeado

台語。Often referred to as Taiwanese; I haven't heard anyone say Hokkien when describing it, though they often say 閩南語。 Honestly, it gets me all mixed up.


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## xiaolijie

viajero_canjeado said:
			
		

> Do kids in England say yeah-huh?


Yes, but apart from being a casual "Yes", especially by children, I don't notice any special flavour in it. I'll pay more attention next time I hear it.


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## xiaolijie

Razzle Storm said:


> I think "trying to be cute" is a great (if slightly sardonic ) translation of 发嗲. The style of speech is mainly used by 娇气/做作的"淑女", at least in my experience. I personally can't stand it, but it does seem to be popular enough to have a certain stereotype associated with it.


Another phrase for 发嗲 that I can think of is "switching on her charm" . Depending on how well this is done, the effect can be 倾城倾国!


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## GamblingCamel

xiaolijie said:


> Another phrase for 发嗲 that I can think of is "switching on her charm" . Depending on how well this is done, the effect can be 倾城倾国!


From the dictionary, I sense that 倾城倾国 was originally an expression for political revolution/collapse of the government.  _Overturn town, overturn nation_.
Has it always been used also in the sense of "gorgeous", or is that relatively new?


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## Lamb67

Here your google dictionary must be outwitted as the idiom is about two thousand years old. It tells a story that a king's fancied girl is dancing and singing so beautifully that the king is reluctant to stand up to a horde of invading enemy. The kindom is lost at the end.


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## GamblingCamel

Lamb67 said:


> Here your google dictionary must be outwitted as the idiom is about two thousand years old. It tells a story that a king's fancied girl is dancing and singing so beautifully that the king is reluctant to stand up to a horde of invading enemy. The kindom is lost at the end.


Thank you, Lamb.
I did see a couple of images of a beautiful girl on ancient scrolls, so I should've realized that the "gorgeous" definition went back a long time.


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## xiaolijie

Gambler said:
			
		

> Has it always been used also in the sense of "gorgeous", or is that relatively new?


No, "gorgeous" is too mild in my mind. I mean... if a girl does it right, well, the effect can be "_devastating"_. This usage is my own, and I'm not aware whether it already exists. The original usage is more like a story, just as Lam67's refers to.


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## Ghabi

It's like "Helen of Troy".


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## GamblingCamel

Ghabi said:


> It's like "Helen of Troy".


haha _The face that launched a thousand ships._

However, Helen was divinely beautiful; she was a goddess, the daughter of Zeus. It seems that the Chinese beauty had to rely on more earthly arts of seduction.

Also, nowadays, outside the world of academia, it's rare to praise a woman's beauty by comparing her to Helen of Troy.
Helen's even ended up in the gutter on urbandictionary.


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## Razzle Storm

xiaolijie said:


> No, "gorgeous" is too mild in my mind. I mean... if a girl does it right, well, the effect can be "_devastating"_. This usage is my own, and I'm not aware whether it already exists. The original usage is more like a story, just as Lam67's refers to.



I think this does exist. Google searches for "devastatingly beautiful" and "devastatingly gorgeous" both return a fair amount of results. Just as a side note, "devastatingly handsome" returns ten times as much as either of those.

Also for the English learners on the forum, saying someone is "devastatingly beautiful/handsome" is pretty natural, and I'd recommend it if you want to learn natural English!


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## xiaolijie

Razzle Storm said:


> I think this does exist. Google searches for "devastatingly beautiful" and "devastatingly gorgeous" both return a fair amount of results. Just as a side note, "devastatingly handsome" returns ten times as much.


Ok, what I meant in the above post was not the word _"devastating"_ but _"to use 倾城倾国 for "devastating""._ Anyway, whatever, it was not my intention to try to be original.


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## GamblingCamel

Razzle Storm said:


> Also for the English learners on the forum, saying someone is "devastatingly beautiful/handsome" is pretty natural, and I'd recommend it if you want to learn natural English!


We are of course in a very tricky, subjective area of language. _Chacun a son goût_, as they say in French.

<< RaZZle >> I'm not quite in agreement with your advice.
It's probably not a good idea lol to advise an EN learner to use a 5 syllable adverb.
But also, "devastatingly beautiful/handsome" is colloquial language of a very special sort. 
Personally, I'd use it only in a playful manner (mimicking the language of romance novels + the glamor industry) -- or when I'm truly smitten beyond belief. 

It's also possible to use _devastate_ as a transitive verb. In this very poetic example, beauty devastates like an earthquake.
_Her beauty devastated him, a beauty that broke down old rules of light and cannot be interpreted or compared. Such women make every room original._


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## Razzle Storm

GamblingCamel said:


> We are of course in a very tricky, subjective area of language. _Chacun a son goût_, as they say in French.
> 
> << RaZZle >> I'm not quite in agreement with your advice.
> It's probably not a good idea lol to advise an EN learner to use a 5 syllable adverb.
> But also, "devastatingly beautiful/handsome" is colloquial language of a very special sort.
> Personally, I'd use it only in a playful manner (mimicking the language of romance novels + the glamor industry) -- or when I'm truly smitten beyond belief.
> 
> It's also possible to use _devastate_ as a transitive verb. In this very poetic example, beauty devastates like an earthquake.
> _Her beauty devastated him, a beauty that broke down old rules of light and cannot be interpreted or compared. Such women make every room original._



Of course! That's what makes language fun. All of the reasons you just stated are perfect reasons why beginning language learners shouldn't first learn this without proper awareness. Hopefully advanced language learners will be able to properly use this though.


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## GamblingCamel

Razzle Storm said:


> Of course! That's what makes language fun.


Cool. By the way, this thread has given you raZZling daZZling senior member status.

... and the 5 examples on Google for razzlingly

From Asian refrains to a Madonna in the 80s type vocal. The music is big, in your face and razzlingly rocky in effect.
how "razzlingly" beautiful I am. 
Ooooo, it really is razzlingly dazzlingly beautiful! The color is so rich. 
Telephone poles, fire hydrants, traffic lights, parked cars, store fronts' razzlingly impersonal glare doubled by unfrozen puddles .
I feel it only fair to warn you of the imminent, ultra lengthy, mind-razzlingly and skin pricklingly self important gloating to come.


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