# rather you didn't/don't



## Gary_Kasparov

Hello, Which is correct?:

I'd rather you didn't say that.

I'd rather you don't say that.

Thanks!


----------



## Mate

Gary_Kasparov said:


> Hello, Which is correct?:
> 
> I'd rather you didn't say that.
> 
> I'd rather you don't say that.
> 
> Thanks!


Al parecer, ninguna de las dos es correcta. ¿Qué quieres expresar?


----------



## TonyB

Hola otra vez Gary:

I'd rather you didn't say that.

I'd rather you don't say that.

Las dos son correctas


----------



## Thomas Tompion

Gary_Kasparov said:


> Hello, Which is correct?:
> 
> I'd rather you didn't say that.
> 
> I'd rather you don't say that.
> 
> Thanks!


 
*I'd rather you didn't say that* is fine.

*I'd rather you don't say* that doesn't work.

In the positive it's:

*I'd rather you said that.*

We don't say: *I'd rather you say that.*

It's a question of sequence of tenses: you need the past tense after the conditional (*I'd rather* is short for* I would rather*).


----------



## TonyB

Hola:

Ok, I am sure Thomas is right but I think that most people would find 'I'd rather you don't say that.' perfectly acceptable.


----------



## Fernita

I have always thought the correct form is: "*I´d rather + simple past".*

I´d rather you didn´t say that.
I´d rather she came earlier.

Dear TonyB, please tell me whether "perfectly acceptable" implies "grammatically correct" or not.
Thanks!!


----------



## TonyB

Hola Fernita:

I suppose I am trying to say that most people do not always speak grammatically correct English. I certainly don't! In this context 'perfectly acceptable' suggests colloquial English which is often grammatically incorrect.  The truth is that I didn't realize that 'I d rather you don't say that ' was wrong until it was pointed out. Not only am I learning Spanish in this forum but English too.


----------



## Jellby

Fernita said:


> I have always thought the correct form is: "*I´d rather + simple past".*



It's probably not the past but the subjunctive what you need, I guess.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

Jellby said:


> It's probably not the past but the subjunctive what you need, I guess.


 
I doubt it, these days, in British English. To shift to a case where the difference is more easily marked: I'd say:

I'd rather I was in Italy and not
I'd rather I were in Italy.

Even for impossible contingencies, like

I'd rather I was a beetle. I'd not automatically say:
I'd rather I were a beetle,

though it doesn't sound wrong like I'd rather I were in Italy.


----------



## Ifsy Biroa

Hola,
he visto esa expresion antes como "I'd rather *not *say"
ejemplos:
1) "I’d rather not say because I think people will react differently towards my play. I’d rather leave it up to the audience to interpret it"
2) "I'd rather not say what they told me for my sake....ya' know??"
Perdon por no poder explicar la razon gramatical...
Suerte,
Ifsy


----------



## hfpardue

In America it would be different.   We would say "I'd rather you didn't". or "I'd rather you not...".  "I'd rather you not" sounds better. 
We would not say "I'd rather I were in Italy" as Thomas Tompion has said.  

We would say "I'd rather _*be*_ in Italy."

We would never say "I'd rather I....".  We just say "I'd rather + (the verb in the infinitive).

For example,
I'd rather go to the store.
I'd rather go to bed.
I'd rather be at a DMB concert.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

Ifsy Biroa said:


> Hola,
> he visto esa expresion antes como "I'd rather *not *say"
> ejemplos:
> 1) "I’d rather not say because I think people will react differently towards my play. I’d rather leave it up to the audience to interpret it"
> 2) "I'd rather not say what they told me for my sake....ya' know??"
> Perdon por no poder explicar la razon gramatical...
> Suerte,
> Ifsy


Hola Ifsy,

I don't think anyone is doubting that we can use I'd rather and I'd rather not + bare infinitive:

I'd rather say
I'd rather not say

We were dealing with the case where the subject changes: I'd rather you said.

In order to determine whether or not this was an indicative or a subjunctive I used: I wish I was versus I wish I were - because then it's plain which is a subjunctive and which an indicative. It's I wish you were in both cases, of course.

It might have been better for me to use the third person and examine I wish he was a beetle against I wish he were a beetle. Then people wouldn't be tempted to suggest the infinitive form.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

hfpardue said:


> In America it would be different. We would say "I'd rather you didn't". or "I'd rather you not...". "I'd rather you not" sounds better.
> We would not say "I'd rather I were in Italy" as Thomas Tompion has said.


Hi, hfpardue,

Just by your warning sign, you say I recommend saying 'I'd rather I were in Italy'. Here's the relavent bit from my post 9:



> I'd say:
> 
> I'd rather I was in Italy and not
> I'd rather I were in Italy.


 
Sorry I didn't spot it earlier.


----------



## hfpardue

Thomas Tompion said:


> Hi, hfpardue,
> 
> Just by your warning sign, you say I recommend saying 'I'd rather I were in Italy'. Here's the relavent bit from my post 9:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I didn't spot it earlier.



Ok.  We would never say "I'd rather I was in Italy."   We would just say "I'd rather _*be*_ in Italy."
We wouldn't say
"I'd rather I go out tonight."  We would say "I'd rather go out tonight."
Just like we wouldn't say "I'd rather I study tomorrow." We would say "I'd rather study tomorrow."

Maybe in England it's different, but here there is no need to say "I" again.  It sounds awkward to say "I'd rather I..." instead of just "I'd rather (the verb)".  That was the point I was making.


----------



## i heart queso

I agree completely with hfpardue.  We don't say "I'd rather I was..." but instead "I'd rather be".

As for the original question, "I'd rather you didn't say that" is preferable, but on the other hand, "I'd rather you said that" sounds extreeeeeemely strange to me... anyone else?


----------



## Thomas Tompion

hfpardue said:


> Ok. We would never say "I'd rather I was in Italy." We would just say "I'd rather _*be*_ in Italy."
> We wouldn't say
> "I'd rather I go out tonight." We would say "I'd rather go out tonight."
> Just like we wouldn't say "I'd rather I study tomorrow." We would say "I'd rather study tomorrow."
> 
> Maybe in England it's different, but here there is no need to say "I" again. It sounds awkward to say "I'd rather I..." instead of just "I'd rather (the verb)". That was the point I was making.


 
Many thanks for this, hfpardue,

No, I wasn't suggesting we did it in England; practice in BE is exactly as you describe it in AE. I was just forcing the verb into a person where it's obvious if it's a subjunctive or an indicative. I tried to explain this in my post 12 





> I don't think anyone is doubting that we can use I'd rather and I'd rather not + bare infinitive:
> 
> I'd rather say
> I'd rather not say


 
I go on to try to explain why I went into the first person; the point being, of course, that the subjunctive and indicative forms are the same in the second person, *I wish you were*, in both cases. I made this shift so that, in the cases where the person doing the wishing is different from the subject of the *that* clause, we know how to handle the verb.

I should have made all that clearer. I'm sorry.


----------



## hfpardue

Thanks for the clarification Thomas Tompion.  I found a really good webpage that explains *rather*.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv107.shtml
Es fácil de entender.


----------



## santora

ok para añadir al discurso...es que este asunto no tiene que ser explicado con tantas detalles...el concepto de cual usted pregunta puede ser bien simple si piensa en la gramática de español, ya que las reglas son similares a las de ingles. 

"i'd (i would) rather you didn't." --> "preferiría que no lo hicieras."

---vea como el subjuntivo del pasado sigue la condicional porque los dos representan el pasado y los dos lados del frase tienen que ponerse de acuerdo con respecto al tiempo. mire lo siguiente: 

"i'd (i would) rather you don't." --> "preferiría que no lo hagas." 
--- el problema es que el primer verbo es condicional pero el segundo es indicativo, además de que suena extraño.


bueno, si dijera el segundo, se le entendería bien. espero que este le ayude


----------



## Ivy29

Mateamargo said:


> Al parecer, ninguna de las dos es correcta. ¿Qué quieres expresar?


 
*I would rather +past tense for present or future meaning: When you want someone else do something*

I would rather you went.
I would rather you came next week
My girlfriend would rather we didn't see each other any more.

Ivy29


----------



## hfpardue

Ivy29 said:


> My girlfriend would rather we didn't see each other any more.



Qué doloroso. Sí que el amor duele.  Muy buen ejemplo de "would rather".


----------



## Mate

Ivy29 said:


> *I would rather +past tense for present or future meaning: When you want someone else do something*
> 
> I would rather you went.
> I would rather you came next week
> My girlfriend would rather we didn't see each other any more.
> 
> Ivy29


Muchas gracias Ivy, he aprendido algo nuevo.

Mate


----------



## hezman

Y con otros tiempos, ¿sería así?

I'll come tomorrow.
I'd rather you wouldn't.

I opened the window.
I'd rather you hadn't.


----------



## Ivy29

Mateamargo said:


> Muchas gracias Ivy, he aprendido algo nuevo.
> 
> Mate


 
Con mucho gusto Mate.

Feliz noche

Ivy29


----------



## Forero

Gary_Kasparov said:


> Hello, Which is correct?:
> 
> I'd rather you didn't say that.
> 
> I'd rather you don't say that.
> 
> Thanks!



This is a real oddity in English.  Only the first is standard, and the "past tense" is a "past" subjunctive as with "I wish ...":  "I'd rather he weren't here."  It is also correct to use present subjunctive: "I'd rather you not say that."

For some strange reason, the _'d_ can be either _would_ or _had_ with the same meaning, but with _had_, only the present form is common:  "I had rather she not be here."

When the subject doesn't change, the standard form is the bare infinitive:  "I would rather not need to bring scissors."  In this case, I think only _would_ (or _'d_) fits and not _had_.

A similar, and equally odd, construction is "It's time you learned to do your own laundry."  Again it's the subjunctive:  "It's time I were kept informed about these things before they happen."  This is rare enough that it sounds kind of strange, but it's even stranger if you try to substitute past indicative ("was").  The present subjunctive is not used with "It's time".


----------



## santora

hezman said:


> Y con otros tiempos, ¿sería así?
> 
> I'll come tomorrow.
> I'd rather you wouldn't.
> 
> I opened the window.
> I'd rather you hadn't.




*I"ll come tomorrow. 
I'd rather you didn't.*

---_wouldn't_ no puede ser usado en este caso, porque el _i'd_ (_i would_) ya implica la condicional, entonces la segunda acción tiene que ser diferente. _hadn't_ seria usado si el ejemplo (como el segundo) estuviera refiriendo al pasado en vez del futuro o presente. otro ejemplo:

* "I came late yesterday."
"I wish/I'd rather you hadn't."* (pero en este caso me sona mejor usar _I wish..._pero no importa)


el segundo es correcto, pues como lo veo yo


----------



## mhp

i heart queso said:


> "I'd rather you said that" sounds extreeeeeemely strange to me... anyone else?



 It doesn’t sound extremely strange to me, particularly not with so many e’s. But I think the explanation Forero gives in post #24 is perfectly valid which also explains: I’d rather he do it tonight.


----------



## luligarbar

I believe it's a matter of frequency, so I' definitely go for the first one.


----------



## saletita_2728

Tengo una duda, estas fraces estan mal, pero como las pondriasn bien???

She told me that she'd rather not to serve on the committee???

If you don't mind I rather not going???

He said he'd rather went to a small college thana large university????


----------



## hfpardue

I'd rather you didn't. = Preferiría que no lo hicieras.
I'd rather you don't. 
Preferiría que no lo hagas. 
I'd rather you said that. This just sounds weird.
I wish you would say that. 

I wouldn't abuse rather. Normally it is used to describe the subject who is speaking instead of someone else;

I'd rather not.
I'd rather go to sleep.

If you want to change the subject, use "wish" or "I would like".


----------



## Thomas Tompion

I'd rather you said that, by itself or + a clause, e.g. I rather you said that I was ill than that I didn't want to come, would be entirely normal and idiomatic in BE as I know it.

Does it really sound weird in AE?


----------



## hfpardue

Thomas Tompion said:


> I'd rather you said that, by itself or + a clause, e.g. I rather you said that I was ill than that I didn't want to come, would be entirely normal and idiomatic in BE as I know it.
> 
> Does it really sound weird in AE?


 
In American English, _*I'd* rather you said that I was ill than that I didn't want to come. _sounds normal.

I rather you said that I was ill than that I didn't want to come. does not sound normal in America.

_I would_ _rather_ or _I'd_ _rather_ is often used in the US. _I rather_ is not, and would sound weird.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

hfpardue said:


> [...]
> _I would_ _rather_ or _I'd_ _rather_ is often used in the US. _I rather_ is not, and would sound weird.


 
Hi hfpardue,

I can't reconcile this with 


hfpardue said:


> I'd rather you said that. This just sounds weird.
> [...]


Is there a misprint in the first version, or do I need to clean my spectacles?


----------



## hfpardue

I'm sorry to be confusing. That particular instance, _I'd rather you said that_, is solely my opinion.


----------

