# Hindi, Urdu, and Panjabi: <dhyaan>, <dihaan>, and <tavajo>



## panjabigator

adiibo,

I was wondering if you all could help clarify the difference between <dihaan> and <dhyaan>.  I have only ever heard <dihaan> but Karachi folk (Karachites?) and it surprised me.  I had originally thought that the Urdu choice would be <tavajo> (توجو), but several of my American born Urdu speaking friends (amriikii ahl-e-zubaan) told me they never use/hear that word.  What a conundrum.  

I know we are striving to avoid generalizations here, but could someone tell me which word would mark me as a foreigner in Pakistan?

Does <tavajo> have a nuanced meaning?  And am I using it correctly in the following sentence:

<mai.n uske hasiin chahre par mutavajo ho gaya>

In Panjabi, the word I would use is <tyàan> and I've never heard anything different.  Hamza sahib, perhaps you can address word choice in Pakistani Panjabi?  By the way, I use the "à" to reflect a falling tone.  

<aap logo.n ke javaabaat paDh.ne kaa muntazir huu.n>


PG


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## Illuminatus

Does there exist a word like _dihaan?
_I have only heard _dhyaan _ध्यान


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## panjabigator

I can't type Urdu too well on this computer, so check this entry under www.urduword.com :
http://urduword.com/search.php?Roman=dihaan


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## Illuminatus

The link you have sent is what I call Dhyaan.

Had it been Dihaan, the alif would have followed Ha and there won't have been Ya. (دھان)

You can use www.typeurdu.com


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## lcfatima

I just looked up tavajjoh in my dictionary and it is spelled with a /he/ ~ not a wow at the end.

Why is dhyaan in Hindi a different word than deyhaan in Urdu?

In the airport in Pakistan the announcer says: musaafir mutavajjoh ho(n).


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## panjabigator

> musaafir mutavajjoh ho(n).



And in India : <kripyaa dhyaan de.n>

Thanks for the spelling correction.  My <hijje> is in need of some <sudhaarna>ing.


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## Cilquiestsuens

lcfatima said:


> I just looked up tavajjoh in my dictionary and it is spelled with a /he/ ~ not a wow at the end.
> 
> Why is dhyaan in Hindi a different word than deyhaan in Urdu?
> 
> In the airport in Pakistan the announcer says: musaafir mutavajjoh ho(n).


 

Well I've heard more often . *tavajjoh farmaaiye* or *mulaaHiZah farmaaiye*


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## BP.

The word is dhyaan, and is spelt this way even in Urdu. Its curious some people pronounce it dayhaan.

Tawaj-ja (Punjabiphones say -jo) means the same. You can use either and not be treated as a  foreigner. Yes it ends in a ~.


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## Faylasoof

BP,  The Arabic verb is 'tawajjaha' (5th verbal form), from 'wajaha' (the 1st form), and so the verbal noun of the former would be 'tawajjoh'. When pronounced well, you can hear the ending 'oh' slightly, and that is how we have always said it. If I understand you correctly, you do it different? You are absolutely correct though about the use of either in most circumstances. However, in official announcements I felt there was a tendency to use 'tawajjoh'. Perhaps because 'tawajjoh farmaeiN' sounds better. At least this used to be the case.


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## BP.

Turns out I've been spelling it wrong all my life! And pronouncing what I write.


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## lcfatima

Does anyone know why it is dhyaan in Hindi and deyhaan in Urdu? 

Like how the spelling of baa-wajood in devnaagri is eliciting the pronunciation distinction of the same word in Hindi and Urdu...so what is behind the difference here? How did a vowel creep in and cancel the aspiration of the /d/ in Urdu?


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## Cilquiestsuens

Honestly, I don't think it is pronounced Dehaan in Urdu!!!

The fact is that it is pronounced d(h)e-aan.... in Pakistan.

*dh* is often turned to *d* by Punjabi speakers (not talking of pure punjabi where it is pronounced tê-aan ), and anyway, all the series of aspirate voiced plosive consonants are not really pronounced with an aspiration in Pakistan (bh, dh, gh, Dh, etc.), then it is much closer to d, or simply d (as it is in some dialects of Punjabi).

Then, following the pattern of 'past participle', Punjabi speakers pronounce the 'y' as a sound closer to an 'e'. as in SaTea (phenkaa); rakhea (rakha); 

So According to my understanding, the pronounciation you describe is rather PUnjabi.

Then you have your de-aan (but in the Urdu I here I've never heard an H after the e, which is possible and a common phenomenon in linguistics).

Then, on the other hand, there is also a reason why Hindi speakers insist on prounouncing properly *Dhyaan...* because it is a pure sanscrit word and it has a religious meaning... (meditation, *muraaqba* in Urdu).

Hindi has been trying to enforce a strict sanskrit like pronounciation, which the huge majority of its speakers are just unable to do, especially for its heavy clusters (kshetra is often turned into : chhetra, maddhyam into maddham, maryaadaa into marjaad, etc...). Bengali has been more flexible and has retained the 'popular' or "evolved' pronounciation while keeping the sanskrit spelling.


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## BP.

Its spelt دھیان in Urdu. People probably tend to insert the extra short vowel when speaking because Urdu doesn't use the _dh_, _ph_ and _bh_ sounds that much (exception: _bhaï_, _phir_, _phool_) and their toungues aren't used to it.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that Urdu vocabulary that uses these sounds is very limited. The few words have a high usage frequency though.

Sindhi definitely, and Panjaabi probably have larger repertoires of these sounds.


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Its spelt دھیان in Urdu. People probably tend to insert the extra short vowel when speaking because Urdu doesn't use the _dh_, _ph_ and _bh_ sounds that much (exception: _bhaï_, _phir_, _phool_) and their toungues aren't used to it.
> 
> The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that Urdu vocabulary that uses these sounds is very limited. The few words have a high usage frequency though.
> 
> Sindhi definitely, and Panjaabi probably have larger repertoires of these sounds.


 

Standard Pakistani ("western") Punjabi has none of these sounds : as you know, bhaï is pronounced (paaï) or praa.... phir is pronounced fer and dhyaan is pronounced te-aan.


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## lcfatima

Cilqui: You know, you are right about this being a feature of Pakistani Urdu, probably not the entire body of the Urdu speaking world. Good point. 

The Punjabi influence explanation is a good one, but I first observed this phenomenon with non-Punjabis. It could be that the Punjabification (?) of Pakistani Urdu is more prolific than it seems.


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## panjabigator

Yes, I've only heard this with Karachites.

And Siraiki does, in fact, pronounces the <Dh> (as in <dhol>) and <bh> (as is <bhā'i) without a tone.  If you ever listen to Abida Parveen singing Sufi kalām, you'll hear that some other Panajbi dialects also seem to lack these phonies.


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## Faylasoof

Janaab-e-waalaa BP Saahib, 

I'm not sure if I agree with this: 



BelligerentPacifist said:


> Its spelt دھیان in Urdu. People probably tend to insert the extra short vowel when speaking because Urdu doesn't use the _dh_, _ph_ and _bh_ sounds that much (exception: _bhaï_, _phir_, _phool_) and their toungues aren't used to it.


 

I think we use enough words where _dh_, _ph_ and _bh_ sounds are used, and as you yourself say, those words we use have a high frequency. So the tongue should be able to pronounce these sounds very well. 

_We never say dayhaan_. It would be considered poor pronunciation. 

Some of the words we use with the above sounds are: 

*dh*
_dhaai_ ( = two and a half)_,_ _dhaRak_ ( as in be dhaRak), _dhaR _(= _jism_ = _tan_ ), _dhaRkan_ ( as in _dil ki dhaRkan_), _dhamak_ ( as in _chamak dhamak_), _dhamaakaa_, _dhol_, _dhandoraa_ ( as in _baghal mein bachchah shahir mein dhandora_), _dhyaan_ etc.

*ph*
_phir_, _phool_, _phal_, _phiran_, _phooNknaa_, _phaaNknaa_ ( as in _munh mein phal ki phaaNk phaaNknaa_), _phaaNk_, _phaaNsnaa_, _phaaNs_, _phaaNsee_, _phasnaa_, _phudaknaa_, _phudkaanaa _etc. 

*bh*
_bhai_, _bhaaree_, _bharkam_ (as in _bhaaree bharkam_), _bhool_, bhoolnaa, _bhooljaanaa_, _bhulaanaa_, _bheegnaa_, _bhigonaa_, _bharnaa_, _bhaagnaa_, _bhagoRaa_, _bhejnaa_ ( to send), _bhejaa _(as in brain as well as the other meaning: _yeh isne bhejaa hai_) _bhauNknaa_ ( as in dog’s wuf! wuf!), bhoknaa ( to pierce), _bhook_ ( as in _bhook pyaas_) etc. 

I do not know any Sindhi and my Punjabi is limited so I cannot compare, but there are enough words used in Urdu with these sounds that the tongue of an Urdu speaker should have no problem pronouncing these sounds correctly. 

Good teaching and training (_ta’leem o tarbiyat o parwarish_) always helps. 

_mere azeez dostooN, yeh sab alfaaz ke saHeeH talaffuz ki mashq par munhasir hai jo keh hameshah kaam aatee hai _

[My dear friends, all this depends on the correct practice of word-pronunciation which always comes in handy]

ab aap sab mujhe ijaazat deejie mein chahil qadmee ke vaaste nikal rahaa hooN.


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> adiibo,
> 
> I was wondering if you all could help clarify the difference between <dihaan> and <dhyaan>.  I have only ever heard <dihaan> but Karachi folk (Karachites?) and it surprised me.  I had originally thought that the Urdu choice would be <tavajo> (توجو), but several of my American born Urdu speaking friends (amriikii ahl-e-zubaan) told me they never use/hear that word.  What a conundrum.
> 
> I know we are striving to avoid generalizations here, but could someone tell me which word would mark me as a foreigner in Pakistan?
> 
> Does <tavajo> have a nuanced meaning?  And am I using it correctly in the following sentence:
> 
> <mai.n uske hasiin chahre par mutavajo ho gaya>
> 
> In Panjabi, the word I would use is <tyàan> and I've never heard anything different.  Hamza sahib, perhaps you can address word choice in Pakistani Panjabi?  By the way, I use the "à" to reflect a falling tone.
> 
> <aap logo.n ke javaabaat paDh.ne kaa muntazir huu.n>
> 
> 
> PG



PG Jii, first thing first....How come you allow yourself a "multi-topic" thread?  OK, now that the "Ghussah" has subsided, let's attend to the task at hand.

In correct Urdu, the word is "dhyaan" and IMHO anything different to this is wrong! Urdu has very few compound consonants and those that exist are formed with a consonant+y, e.g. kyaa, pyaar. pyaas, dhyaan. Because there are very few such words, Urdu speakers may feel the urge to stick a vowel between the first and second consonant (y). This could possibly explain the existence of pyaar/piyaar and dhyaan/dhiyaan.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> The word is dhyaan, and is spelt this way even in Urdu. Its curious some people pronounce it dayhaan.
> 
> Tawaj-ja (Punjabiphones say -jo) means the same. You can use either and not be treated as a  foreigner. Yes it ends in a ~.



Could it be that Punjabiphones *know* that the word is "tavajjuh"?


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## UrduMedium

QURESHPOR said:


> PG Jii, first thing first....How come you allow yourself a "multi-topic" thread?  OK, now that the "Ghussah" has subsided, let's attend to the task at hand.
> 
> In correct Urdu, the word is "dhyaan" and IMHO anything different to this is wrong! Urdu has very few compound consonants and those that exist are formed with a consonant+y, e.g. kyaa, pyaar. pyaas, dhyaan. Because there are very few such words, Urdu speakers may feel the urge to stick a vowel between the first and second consonant (y). This could possibly explain the existence of pyaar/piyaar and dhyaan/dhiyaan.



If I understood correctly, PG's comparison is not between _dhyaan/dhiyaan_, but between _dhyaan/*dihaan*_. It is commonly heard in Karachi, in some cases, even to the point of *dehaan*. Not sure what is the reason for it because it is always written as _dhyaan_.


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## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Standard Pakistani ("western") Punjabi has none of these sounds : as you know, bhaï is pronounced (paaï) or praa.... phir is pronounced fer and dhyaan is pronounced te-aan.



Not quite, Cilquiestsuens SaaHib. In these words (paaii, praa, te-aan), there is a tonal h..p_haaii, p_hraa and t_hyaan.


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## panjabigator

Back in the day, the rules of the forum were a bit more lax. And that post predates my moderator days 

And yes Urdu Medium Sahib, I was interested in the divide between "dihaan" and "dhyaan." Never heard the former in Lucknow, I might add.


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## Qureshpor

lcfatima said:


> Cilqui: You know, you are right about this being a feature of Pakistani Urdu, probably not the entire body of the Urdu speaking world. Good point.
> 
> The Punjabi influence explanation is a good one, but I first observed this phenomenon with non-Punjabis. It could be that the Punjabification (?) of Pakistani Urdu is more prolific than it seems.



Really? What makes Lakhnaviis pronounce "piyaar"? Are they influenced by Punjabis. If they are, Punjabis indeed  are very influential people! Punjabification! Bad Bad Punjabis! I hope this does not spread beyond Pakistan's borders! Oh, I've just realised. There are a few Punjabis across the border in India too. I hope they are not as active as their Pakistani brethren in polluting the languagel! Who knows, Punjabis might take over the whole planet! I dread to think!


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## UrduMedium

UrduMedium said:


> If I understood correctly, PG's comparison is not between _dhyaan/dhiyaan_, but between _dhyaan/*dihaan*_. It is commonly heard in Karachi, in some cases, even to the point of *dehaan*. Not sure what is the reason for it because it is always written as _dhyaan_.


 Another word that suffers from this treatment is *bhyaanak, *which can be pronounced (at least in Karachi) as also _behaanak/bihaanak_. There's something going on where an aspirated consonant followed by two vowels (ye and alif) causes the _h _of the aspiration to shift by one place. Not quite sure though.


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## Qureshpor

^ Did your Urdu teachers from primary school level onwards teach this "behaanak" pronunciation or do you think this "phenomenon" starts later in life with other external influences?


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## UrduMedium

^ Nobody learns their native language from a teacher. So I suspect this starts at home.


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## marrish

Not wishing to go off-topic, but something tells me that there might be some dialectical influences with ''dehaan'' and ''bihaanak'' at play.

Just for the record, I've noticed _dehaan_ ruling the tongues of Urdu speakers in Karachi so all I can do is to acknowledge its existence as an alternate spelling, but I'd never say it like this.

Never heard _''bihaanak/behaanak''_ before and I must say I'm very surprised to hear it. But, after all, this word derives from the Sanskrit root _*bhii_, so the occurence of ''i'' or ''e'' in ''_bihaanak/behaanak_'' might not be without a reason. 

Having said this, the proper word is in Urdu _bh*a*yaanak,_ so I'd presume that there is no need to adapt the pronunciation for the sake of simplicity (subjectively experienced) resulting in_ bihaanak_ because here a consonant cluster is not involved.


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## UrduMedium

UrduMedium said:


> Another word that suffers from this treatment is *bhyaanak, *which can be pronounced (at least in Karachi) as also _behaanak/bihaanak_. There's something going on where an aspirated consonant followed by two vowels (ye and alif) causes the _h _of the aspiration to shift by one place. Not quite sure though.


 I did a quick survey of my friends (via facebook) on the _bhayaanak _pronunciation. It turns out only one in 13 chose _behaanak_. So I was clearly overestimating this phenomenon. 

_dehaan/dhiyaan_ is another story. Of the 11 responses, 6 were _dehaan_. Among the Karachiite subset it was 5 to 3 in favor of _dehaan_.


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