# conditional forms



## Cereth

hello again! I received this message but I don´t understand it quite well (I think "tara" "nara" and "eba" added to the verbs change them into a conditional form, can you help me understand it please?

I have this text: 
_8 made jugyou ga arimasu sonoatonara daijoubu desuga anata ha dorede ii? mata mosikasitara youjiga hairukamo sirenai . 
sonotokiha rennraku ismasu_

*I will try to translate it
I have class until 8 o´clock, After that if is it ok for you.. dore de ii?? -I don´t understand that...
Maybe I won´t have any compromise after that (kamo shirenai is like "maybe" in this context isn´t it?) 


Another text:

_okonomiyaki ha otagai jikan ga aeba simashoune _
_hituyouna mono.......u-n siiteieba anata desu.warai_

* When we have time we can prepare okonomiyaki (otagai?)
things we will need (for prepare it I assume)........is that you know how to prepare it. Smile


is aeba the conditional of aimasu?
from which verb comes Siiteieba?

I appreciate your help..
Yoroshiku onegai shimasu


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## s_a_n_t_i

Hola Cereth.
Paso a explicarte las formas del condicional, son DOS.
Se suelen llamar 条件形(じょうけんけい).

「～たら」

Con los verbos...
食べる→食べたら
Taberu - Tabetara
会う→会ったら
Au - Attara
借りる→借りたら
Kariru - Karitara
する→したら
Suru - Shitara
くる→きたら
Kuru - Kitara
です→だったら
ない→なかったらCon los Adjetivos...
高い→高かったら→高くなかったら
きれい→きれいだったら→きれいでは（じゃ）なかったら

Esta forma se utiliza, para describir condicionales.
雨だったら、いく？
Si llueve, ¿Vas?.
高かったら買わないよ
Si es caro, no lo compro.

Pero también cabe aclarar que sirve para nombrar situaciones en las que pasan cosas consecutivas, tales como...
くすりを飲んだら、なおりました。
Tomé el remedio, y me curé.

ドアを開けたら、彼がいました。
Cuando abrí la puerta, ahí estaba él. (Abrí la puerta y estaba él).

Bien, la otra forma es un poquito mas complicada...

「ば／なら」

Se cambia la silaba de la linea de la う por la de la え...
飲む→飲めば・会う→会えば・食べる→食べれば・借りる→借りれば・する→すれば・くる→くれば, etc.
nomu-nomeba / au-aeba / taberu-tabereba / kariru-karireba / suru-sureba / kuru-kureba
Para I keiyoushi
あつい→あつければ・さむい→さむければ, etc.
y para NA Keiyoushi, y Sustantivos, se usa なら。
雨だ→雨なら・べんりだ→べんりなら・サンティだ→サンティなら, etc.
ameda-amenara

Vamos a los usos GENERALES (hay muchos más, no te quiero ahogar de información, asi que te doy los más comunes -cualquier cosa preguntame-)

こんなにたくさん食べれば太くなりますよ！
¡Si comés tanto, vas a engordar!
雨ならいく？
Si llueve, ¿Vas?

Vamos a tus textos, para ver como lo uso/saron los/el/la que te lo escribió/eron.

８時まで授業があります。そのあとなら大丈夫ですが、あなたはどれでいい？。また、もしかしたら用事が入るかもしれない。そのときは連絡します。

_8 made jugyou ga arimasu sonoatonara daijoubu desuga anata ha dorede ii?. Mata mosikasitara youjiga hairukamo sirenai. Sonotokiha rennraku ismasu._

Acá dice.._
"Hasta las ocho tengo clases... Después puedo pero, ¿A vos qué (horario, supongo) te quedaría más cómodo? Ah, puede que después tenga unas cosas que hacer, pero cualquier cosa te aviso"._

お好み焼きはお互い時間が合えばしましょうね。
必要なもの・・・・・・うーん、しいて（強いて）言えばあなたです。（笑）
_
okonomiyaki ha otagai jikan ga aeba simashoune
hituyouna mono.......u-n siiteieba anata desu.warai
_
Aca dice..._
"Si nos coinciden los horarios, hagamos el Okonomiyaki juntos...
Lo unico que me hace falta... Mmm (si tengo que decir algo, si me fuerzan a decirlo, por decir algo)... Sos vos (jaja)"._


Bueno... a ver si me mandás un poquitito de Okonomiyaki jajaja.

Espero que te haya servido.
¡Saludos!
Santi.


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## karuna

s_a_n_t_i said:


> _hituyouna mono.......u-n siiteieba anata desu.warai_
> _
> Lo unico que me hace falta... Mmm (si tengo que decir algo, si me fuerzan a decirlo, por decir algo)... Sos vos (jaja)"._



Muchas gracias de mi parte tambien, Santi, pero no entiendo la ultima parte.

Ok, I showed myself off but I don't really know how to write in Spanish. I still don't get the last part. It looks that you want to say that it is the te form of _shīru + _conditional of _iu. _And your translation of _shīte ieba _is "if you force me to say this". Did I understand correctly? And does _anata desu _always mean "I am yours"? Why not simpy "It's you"?


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## sneeka2

s_a_n_t_i, that seems to be a very good explanation, unfortunately I don't understand Spanish... 

What I have been confused about with conditional forms is ば vs たら.
時間あれば読みます。
時間あったれ読みます。

Is it like the difference between when and if?


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## Cereth

Me has ayudado un montón Santi!!!!

Muchísimas gracias!!!!!!!
Aunque ...la última frase que me dijo -sobre que solo le falto yo para cocinar okonomiyaki-....mmm.. no sé como interpretarlo..es un bromista no?
aún soy una muy mala traductora.. jajaja, pero gracias a ustedes (especialmente a vos Santi) aprendo más..ureshiiii!!!!
Your explanation was so good!!!
Thanks a lot , chu chu chu ! 
Cereth.


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## Flaminius

sneeka2 said:


> What I have been confused about with conditional forms is ば vs たら.
> 時間あれば読みます。
> 時間あったれ読みます。  *---> 時間があったら読みます。 (Maybe a typo?)*
> 
> Is it like the difference between when and if?


There are subtle differences between ば and たら, which I, as a native speaker, am not always conscious of. In many contexts, the two are so similar that they are interchangeable.

Yet, a closer look reveals differences. The former implies that the speaker is willing to read only if he has time to do so. Otherwise, he doesn't bother.

The latter implies that, in order for the speaker to read, there should be time for her to begin with. Only then, she sets out to read. How time enough for reading is procured is not clear from the sentence itself. However, contexts may allow one to infer that the speaker is willing to find time herself. In that case the sentence is interpreted as, "I am willing to read but first I have to find time."

I have found this page detailing the differences between four Japanese conditional expressions (it is utterly a pity that sister pages of this excellent account is dysfunctional).

To reproduce (A is the conditional clause, and B the main clause);
1. _tara_ indicates A happen before B. This has the widest usage range of teh four.
2. _ba_ indicates A is the necessary condition of B.
3. _nara_ indicates A is 
4. _to_ indicates that A causing B is regarded generally as true, either by force of habit or logic.

The only reserve I have with her explanation is that _ba_ seems to me establishing an immediate connection between A and B.
シベリアは冬になると、雪が降ります。 (In Siberia if winter comes, it snows.)
As Siberia is a very cold region, snowfalls there in winter can be held self-evident. Yet, this explanation falls short of clarity in the illustration below;
国境の長いトンネルを抜けるとそこは雪国であった。 『雪国』　川端康成
No sooner had the train gotten out of the long tunnel beyond the border, than the snowy country could be seen.


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## sneeka2

I think I understand the gist of it. So let me ask:

分かったら大丈夫。
分かれば大丈夫。

From what I gathered the first sentence should be okay (meaning "If you understood/understand, that's alright") while the second is somewhat misplaced? Or are the forms still interchangeable here? Or are both nonsense? ^_^;;


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## s_a_n_t_i

Cereth said:


> Aunque ...la última frase que me dijo -sobre que solo le falto yo para cocinar okonomiyaki-....mmm.. no sé como interpretarlo..es un bromista no?



Mmmm. La verdad que pensándolo bien, puede tener una acepción medio oscura... Jajaja. Puede ser cualquier cosa, desde una metáfora con sentido romántico, hasta algo subidito de tono .



karuna said:


> Ok, I showed myself off but I don't really know how to write in Spanish. I still don't get the last part. It looks that you want to say that it is the te form of _shīru + _conditional of _iu. _And your translation of _shīte ieba _is "if you force me to say this". Did I understand correctly? And does _anata desu _always mean "I am yours"? Why not simpy "It's you"?



Yes, you understood perfectly, but しいて言えば is a very hard expression to translate, because It can have lots of ways to interpret it, depending the context. 
In this case, 「必要なもの～あなたです」the meaning of あなたです is "It's you".

Thanks to Flam for his very good resource 

Saludos/Greets
Santi.


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## karuna

Thank you Santi, for helping me to learn not only Japanese but also Spanish. Now I see that I didn't realize that _sos = eres_ in Latin American Spanish. Excuse me for not writting in Spanish  for the time being because the three foreign languages are becoming confused in my head at this moment. _Gracias por todo!_


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## Flaminius

sneeka2 said:


> I think I understand the gist of it. So let me ask:
> 
> 分かったら大丈夫。
> 分かれば大丈夫。
> (. . . . ) "If you understood/understand, that's alright"



Sneeka, my instinct is the opposite.  The first one sounds odd since it connotes, "If you understand it, then being alright ensues."  According to the good professor I quoted _supra_, _tara_ joins two events and explains which takes place first.  I cannot agree with her more here.  While understanding something is an event, being alright is value judgement by someone.  This asymmetry make the first sentence awkward.

The second one is okay.  The meaning it conveys is, "Your understanding it is a necessarily condition for my judging it will be alright."


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## sneeka2

Ah, so I got it all backwards. I had that feeling right after I posted, but I wanted to wait for your opinion. Thanks a lot!


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## Salmanman

How many forms of conditional there are in Japanese?
How do I use negative conditional?
Is the -えば form a common conditional?

Thanks for all of your answers!


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## akimura

Salmanman said:


> How many forms of conditional there are in Japanese?



I have never thought about that.



Salmanman said:


> How do I use negative conditional?


[Affirmative Conditionals]
If you run, you'll catch the train. 
走*れば*、電車に間に合うでしょう。
走*ると*、電車に間に合うでしょう。
走*る（の）なら（ば）*、電車に間に合うでしょう。

[Negative Conditionals]
If you don't run, you'll miss the train. 
走*らなければ*、電車に乗り遅れるでしょう。
走*らないと*、電車に乗り遅れるでしょう。
走*らない（の）なら（ば）*、電車に乗り遅れるでしょう。
​That's about all I can think of for now in the scope of modern, standard Japanese.  There may be several others.  I'm also beginning to realize there are in fact a bunch of examples I could generate if I go for old-fashioned forms, regional dialects, etc.


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## Yuta

Salmanman said:


> How many forms of conditional there are in Japanese?
> How do I use negative conditional?
> Is the -えば form a common conditional?
> 
> Thanks for all of your answers!


 Here's a good enumeration with comparations.
http://kimallen.sheepdogdesign.net/Japanese/ifwhen.html
In fact I highly recommend the rest of the articles for someone who already knows japanese grammar but wants to get a better feeling of it's usage.


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## Yuta

Cereth said:


> Me has ayudado un montón Santi!!!!
> 
> Muchísimas gracias!!!!!!!
> Aunque ...la última frase que me dijo -sobre que solo le falto yo para cocinar okonomiyaki-....mmm.. no sé como interpretarlo..es un bromista no?
> aún soy una muy mala traductora.. jajaja, pero gracias a ustedes (especialmente a vos Santi) aprendo más..ureshiiii!!!!
> Your explanation was so good!!!
> Thanks a lot , chu chu chu !
> Cereth.


 
En mi opinión, es un simple piropo diciendo que disfruta de tu compañía.


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