# en amont et en aval



## Angelaura00

Hello,

I can't quite seem to get the gist of this sentence:

La restructuration de la filière en amont et en aval passe par les efforts de structuration des paysans artisans. 

My attempt was:

The redevelopment of the industry before and after passed by structuring efforts by rural artisans.

Can anyone help?
Thanks!
*
Moderator note: several threads on the same topic were merged. *


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## Arioch

I think your error is in translating "filière" by "industry". Perhaps "trade" or even "agricultural trade" could be better. 

Furthermore, "paysans artisans", IMHO, are small farmers, using almost traditional tools and techniques, instead of landlords implementing industrial agriculture.

I have still a problem with "amont" and "aval", which, litterally mean "uphill" and "downhill". 

I'd suggest "Redevelopment of the agricultural trade, both upward and downward, depends on redevelopment efforts of the small/traditional farmers."


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## pieanne

Peut-être "involves" pour "passe par"?


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## doodlebugger

_Amont et aval_ in a business environment are often translated by _upstream and downstream_.


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## dotdotdot1

Bonsoir messieurs et mesdames !

J'ai déjà lu plusieurs « postes » ici sur le sujet, mais après tout de ça je demeure confundu des phrases suivantes :

« On étudiera quelques figures au débat mouvementé entre la rationalité et ce qui s'oppose (ou paraît s'opposer) à elle : en aval, la connaissance irréfléchie ou tributaire de la seule expérience immédiate, en amont le discours mythique ou prétendant échapper à toute expérience. »

La partie la plus importante pour moi c'est la fin, ce que je traduit comme cela : 

"Eventually, irreflective knowledge or knowledge which is only dependent upon immediate experience, but firstly mythic discourses, or those which claim to eschew experience altogether."

Ça c'est mon meilleur effort, mais il utilise les mots « en avant » et « en amont » très étrangement, donc je ne suis pas certain qu'il marche.

Je peut aussi imaginer que "en avant" veuille dire quelque chose comme "the latter" in this case, and "en amont" veuille dire "the former."

Qu'est-ce que vous pensez ?

Mercie beaucoup d'avance.


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## fdemers

*En aval* and *en amont* refer to geography. 

Picture yourself standing by a river that flows before your eyes. What is _en aval_ (from _val_, _vallée_) from you is lower than your reference point; it is in the general direction where the water is going to, past where you are standing. What is _en amont_ (from _mont_, _montagne_) is higher ; it is where the water is coming from.

In the case of your sentence, these expressions are used as metaphors. They basically mean _before_ and _after_.


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## Canard

J'ai l'impression que l'auteur emploie une tournure imagée pour parler des deux camps du discours comme une rivière avec deux sens, en aval et en amont, ou plus directement, ce qui vient à l'appui de la rationalité (en aval) et ce qui s'y oppose (en amont). L'usage du mot "tributaire" contribue à cette image. Difficile à bien traduire !

We will study a few figures in the lively debate between rationality and that which opposes it (or seems to): in the flow of this philosophy, there is unexamined consciousness which streams from plain and immediate experience; and against this flow is mythic discourse, or that which claims to transcend all experience.


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## dotdotdot1

That is a beautiful translation! Thanks very much.


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## iiasi

what is the technical term in English for "en amont et en aval" refering to tanks in the refinery?


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## angloswiss

"upstream and downstream" from the tank

... or tanks that are upstream and downstream from some other component in the system


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## iiasi

thank you for you help


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## tyra21

bONJOUR 
JE CHERCHE LA TRADUCTION, de ces deux mots dans ce contexte
par les differents controles de conformité, selon le tableau de suivi du plan de controle en prevoyant une convention avec un laboratoire agrée, assurant un accompagnement en amant et en aval, en matiere de suivi et de controle. 

By the different conformity checks "control", according to the monitoring table of the control plan
we are Expecting to conclude a convention with an accredited laboratory, providing upstream and downstream support, for monitoring and control


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## Mylina

tyra21 said:


> bONJOUR
> JE CHERCHE LA TRADUCTION, de ces deux mots dans ce contexte
> par les differents controles de conformité, selon le tableau de suivi du plan de controle en prevoyant une convention avec un laboratoire agrée, assurant un accompagnement en amant et en aval, en matiere de suivi et de controle.
> 
> By the different conformity checks "control", according to the monitoring table of the control plan
> we are Expecting to conclude a convention with an accredited laboratory, providing upstream and downstream support, for monitoring and control


 
Hi,

that's correct


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## wildan1

_upstream_ and _downstream_ are generally not used in this figurative sense that is often heard in French. Their use is mostly limited to geography, rivers, etc.

Here:
_providing *pre-* and *post-*service/project/activity support_


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## tyra21

si j'ai bien compris on l'utilise pour le cours d'eau uniquement ?


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## Juggernauth

The translation of Canard is correct, it is even better than correct as the author of the french sentence made an erroneous usage of en aval and en amont.


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## Trans789

I know this has been discussed a lot but I thought this might a bit different.  How would one translate that?

De façon générale, l’équilibre est bon entre les interventions en amont et en aval dans les programmes de l'organisation non gouvernementale (ONG).


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## Griot

In general, the balance between upstream and downstream interventions is good?


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## Trans789

Thanks,  I was not sure of the sentence's meaning.  I thought it could mean interventions at the strategy vs. interventions at the ground level.


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## Maped40

Trans789 said:


> Thanks, I was not sure of the sentence's meaning. I thought it could mean interventions at the strategy vs. interventions at the ground level.


 
I think it is something like that. Maybe it has to do with addressing both the causes and the consequences of a problem.


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## ensoie

Context: Part of software specifications document
French : Nombre d'applications dépendantes en amont/en aval
My try in English : Number of aaplications dependant upstream/downstream 

Please help. I don't understnad what it could mean in an IT context nor do I have the right translation for it.


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## bloomiegirl

Perhaps if you use "dependent applications" for "_applications dépendantes_," it will all work out.


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## bh7

I'm afraid I don't know pithy technical terms, but the meaning is

Dependencies with 
applications supporting the current application
applications supported by the current application

One might try to render this as
upstream application dependencies
downstream application dependiencies

However, please treat my suggestions with caution and try to obtain confirmation from someone with knowledge of technical programming terms.


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## Adam Dalgliesh

Hi, maybe I can help.
"upstream" and "downstream" (amont / aval) is ok
The meaning is that the information flows just like a river really, from the upstream system A through system B to the downstream system C. A => B => C
"dépendantes" is a bit new to me. I would simply translate it as "numerous upstream and downstream connected systems", but I'm not a native.


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## irishcountryside

Dear Colleagues,

In a medical context, there are 2 expressions, "en aval", "en amont", about whose precise translation I'm unsure.

Here are some instances in context:

1. Il faut pas compromettre *la vascularisation en aval* de la lésion.

2. *Le garrot en amont* de la lésion hémorragique est bien rare.
 
3. Il faut éviter *une ischémie en aval*.
 
4. Il faut rechercher *la sensibilité en aval* de la lésion.
 
My gut feeling is that, in context, the meaning of "en aval" and "en amont" is "subsequent" (or something to that effect) and "advance" (or something to that effect).
 
However, as I'm really not sure, I'd appreciate feedback and help from colleagues who know.
 
Moreover, neither am I sure how to translate, precisely and concisely, the phrase "le garrot en amont", and would appreciate help with that, too.
 
Many thanks in advance,
 
Denise


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## Juri

En aval is below (downstream),
en amont is above(upstream).


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## livvie

Hello,

Bit difficult this one!

Maybe  : 
previous and subsequent 
anterior and posterior ??


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## irishcountryside

Thanks very much, Juri and Jivvie.


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## Birgui

Angelaura00 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I can't quite seem to get the gist of this sentence:
> 
> La restructuration de la filière en amont et en aval passe par les efforts de structuration des paysans artisans.
> 
> My attempt was:
> 
> The redevelopment of the industry before and after passed by structuring efforts by rural artisans.
> 
> Can anyone help?
> Thanks!
> *
> Moderator note: several threads on the same topic were merged. *



In my experience "filière" in this context is best translated as "value-chain." Today, I hear more frequently the term "chaine de valeur." Upstream and downstream are used in the context of what the farmer buys and sells, and how the products gain value as they are processed or transformed "downstream" into other products (flour from wheat, bread from flour, sandwiches from bread, etc.). There are many discussions along these lines aimed at increasing income for small-scale "paysans artisans."


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## kmayna22

Hello,

i have read the thread and still have a question. 

"Il est important de noter que les commerciaux ont  un rôle à jouer important dans l’organisation de ces Tech Days. *Pas uniquement dans le projet lui-même et la mise en place mais en amont et en aval*."

Perhaps:

*"... Not only in the project itself but throughout its development*

? Thanks!


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## wildan1

_Throughout its development_ might only suggest only _en amont_--before the project starts, it gets developed.

Less ambiguous would simply be: _not only during the project but also before and afterwards._


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## kmayna22

great idea, thanks!


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