# 造語：-しい as a suffix



## souminwé

Hello everyone,

I am playing around with creating _hypothetical_ words using only 和語 (so called やまとことば） in my free time as a fun way to review modern and classical Japanese (and sort of as a conlang/架空言語, too).

I was wondering, what is the nuance of  -しい?
As in the ending for adjectives like 楽しい、伺わしい　etc. I know it's not a productive suffix, but it does seem like new adjectives ending with ーしい are coined on rare occasion.

Do adjectives with this suffix have a specific nuance? I looked it up on コトバンク but the definitions I found there are not very good ("そういうようすである、そう感じられるという意を表す").

For example, imagine if the word 科学的 was changed to 科学しい  or サイエンスしい
I imagine that this hypothetical word probably sounds _stupid and unnatural_, but if you imagine that it actually existed, would it have a different nuance than 科学的？
Or does the meaning make no sense if you imagine this word existed for real?

Thank you and sorry for asking a weird question!　ご返事は英語でも日本語でもいいです　：）

EDIT: I realize that Japanese almost never /actually/ creates new adjectives like this. But I'm wondering how Japanese could create new adjectives if it didn't have any Chinese morphemes like 的.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

First of all, 科学しい and サイエンスしい are grammatically incorrect and they don't make sense.
They should be 科学らしい and サイエンスらしい to say the least.

科学らしい発想 can mean 科学的な発想, but it depends on the context if they sounds natural or not.


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## souminwé

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> First of all, 科学しい and サイエンスしい are grammatically incorrect and they don't make sense.
> They should be 科学らしい and サイエンスらしい to say the least.
> 
> 科学らしい発想 can mean 科学的な発想, but it depends on the context if they sounds natural or not.



I see; so what I am understanding from your response is if you encountered 科学しい as a made-up word in a novel set in a made-up world, it would sound very nonsensical and not equivalent to 科学的, and that らしい is only a partial equivalent? So ーしい is probably not a good suffix for made-up words as compared to らしい？


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## frokat

You could think about new coinages like グロい or エロい.

I think you could *maybe* create a novel しい adjective that native speakers wouldn’t reject outright, but not using a noun base. Maybe something like うぞうぞしい would sound like a real word? I’m not a native speaker, so I’m not confident that just because it sounds plausible to my ear it’d “work” for native speakers. Also a hard question because “good” coinages can still sound off or confusing at first. Some folks probably would tell you グロい isn’t a word. 

But in general しい wouldn’t be a suffix, since you can’t chop しい off 楽しい and get a stem たの that means something. 

Are you trying to make a word like “sciencey”? I’m having trouble thinking of good examples in English of turning a noun into an adjective.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Yeah, "うぞうぞしい" sounds very natural as a new word, although I don't know its meaning.

神々（こうごう）しい 
空々（そらぞら）しい
女々（めめ）しい
仰々（ぎょうぎょう）しい
おどろおどろしい

How about 科学科学しい？   Maybe it can be understood by some of Japanese.
How about 恣意恣意しい？　恣意恣意しい恣意


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## graysesame

I have no intention of muddying the water, but I think maybe it is a good idea to search 
the etymology of these -しい words and figure out the general rules of formation.

Dictionary explanation of し･い (接尾)
〔形容詞型活用([文]シク し)〕
名詞や動詞の未然形,畳語などに付いて,形容詞をつくる｡そういうさまである,そう感じられる,という意を表す｡
｢おとな―･い｣｢喜ば―･い｣｢毒々―･い｣｢にくにく―･い｣

I hazard a guess that why 科学しい doesn't sound natural is because -しい doesn't fit well with 漢語, e.g. 科学.
Just saying.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

おとな・しい
こども・しい
やまと・しい
おのこ・しい
あけぼの・しい
行か・しい
動か・しい
食べ・しい

名詞や動詞の未然形で「しい」とコロケーションが良い単語は、かなり限定されているように思います。
「美しい」などは、それ自体が「原型（辞書フォーム）」である形容詞になってしまっているように思います。「おとなしい」も、それ自体が一つの新しい単語になっているように思います。語源の考察をする場合は別ですが。（言語学者ではないシロウトの一意見）



graysesame said:


> 畳語


　
Yet,　
時々・しい
人々・しい
山々・しい

やはり、「～～しい」という単語が成立するのはかなり限定されている場合ではないかと思います。

英語で「面白くない」というために、冗談で、
contra-funny
in-funny
とか書いてみましたが、英語ネイティブに理解してもらえませんでした。
このスレッドが試みているのも、同じ事だと思います。


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## SoLaTiDoberman

*＠　souminwé：*

Your try to make a new word sounds like this:
1."Your new word seems contrajokey or contrafunny."
2."Your new word seems injokey or infunny."
3. "Your new word seems no-jokey or no-funny."

I believe 3 can be understandable by many native English speakers, although it's awkward.
Maybe 1 can be understandable by some of native English speakers, however, 2 cannot be understandable by most of native English speakers, right?

科学しい is just like 2.

科学らしい is a grammatically correct Japanese expression. But it means a little different thing.

"_To me, it sounds just a superstition, but according to the author, it's a kind of "science" (科学らしい＝it seems to be science.)"
_
"Seeming-to-be science" and "scientific" mean different, right?
So are 科学らしい and 科学的.

女々しい（めめしい）（pansy) is a negative word, while 女らしい（おんならしい）(feminine) is a positive or at least a neutral word. They are different.

Hope this helps!


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## Flaminius

Repetition is a feature of Japanese neologism.  Nowadays we don't use the _-shii_ suffix so often but I have heard メカメカしい as a jocular description of something too gadgetty, e.g., a living room where one expects to relax and get comfy.  メカ is short for "mechanic" and refers to a lot of things including automobiles, heavy tools, white goods and generally what are called "gadgets."

Having said that, I don't feel 科学科学しい sounds natural.  You may want to use existing derivatives such as 科学っぽい (having the semblance of science), 科学らしい (distinguished as science), or 科学づいた (jocular, inclined to science).  If you want to derive a word by repetition, a more productive suffix is _-shita_.  E.g., 蛮族蛮族した is a jocular description of something very typical of a barbarian.  河村河村した写真 is a photograph with a style so typical of a Kawamura.  To me, 科学科学した sounds like something over-scientific.

Morphological note:
Examples above of _-shita_ derivatives are used attributively and assume a form for modifying nouns, called the adnominal form in the Japanese grammar.  If you want to use the derivatives predicatively, use 科学科学している.


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## frokat

I have an example of a new しい-adjective in the wild. If you’re a Terrace House fan, on Opening Doors: Episode 40 there’s a discussion of one of how to describe the idiosyncratic behavior of one of the cast members. One of the panelists gets a big laugh by tacking しい onto that person’s name, coining “聡太しい”. Depending on your geography you might be able to watch at the link below. It’s around 9 minutes from the end of the episode.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

I can see it at 33:52.
You're right.


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