# Cultural attitudes toward winning/losing in sport



## serg79_

In England, we consider ourselves to be "good losers" at sport; something we've had a lot of practice at.

Generally speaking, we much prefer the guy/team that unexpectedly gets to the semi-final of a competition and puts up a brave fight against a heavy slaughtering, rather than the eventual winner.

Despite being a country with a relatively large (and sporty) population, with generally good sporting facilities, in most of the majority sports we don't produce many (or any) champions.

The "good loser" attitude seems something almost ingrained in our psyche, though. In fact, some of our most successful sports people have ended up being largely despised by the general public, considered arrogant/immodest/aloof, whereas other more mediocre sports people have been hailed as national heroes (and become TV sports personalities) for having lost bravely against some foreign champion or other.

When we look at other countries that share a similar culture to ours, especially Australia, for example, we see that the "good loser" attitude is definitely not the accepted thing there; if anything, the exact opposite. It seems that Australian sporting winners are seen as shining examples of the country's success; and the losers (who usually whinge a lot, it's fair to say) probably largely forgotten about.

What about in your country? Is success in sport seen as a fortunate, possible by-product of taking part, or the *only* reason for taking part? Are your winners admired and adored or envied and despised? Are your losers glorious or merely ridiculous? Do you think that these attitudes say anything about your culture in general?

Thanks for your opinions.


----------



## maxiogee

We Irish admire a good loser too, but we still love anyone who beats the English at anything!


----------



## Hockey13

I think it depends on the sport, depends on the upbringing, etc, but that may just be because the US is a cultural hodge-podge. In my experience with hockey and growing up in a relatively diverse upper-middle class neighborhood near NYC, once the game is over, the winner has won, the loser has lost, and nothing else can be done about it, so why not shake hands and get on with life? We value a respectable winner and a content loser, in that he is content that he has put forth his best effort and simply run up against a better foe.


----------



## Mate

Talking about football, we Argentinians are good loosers. But when it comes to beat England, our feeling is fairly similar to the one exposed by maxiogee.


----------



## don maico

serg79_ said:


> In England, we consider ourselves to be "good losers" at sport; something we've had a lot of practice at.
> 
> Generally speaking, we much prefer the guy/team that unexpectedly gets to the semi-final of a competition and puts up a brave fight against a heavy slaughtering, rather than the eventual winner.
> 
> Despite being a country with a relatively large (and sporty) population, with generally good sporting facilities, in most of the majority sports we don't produce many (or any) champions.
> 
> The "good loser" attitude seems something almost ingrained in our psyche, though. In fact, some of our most successful sports people have ended up being largely despised by the general public, considered arrogant/immodest/aloof, whereas other more mediocre sports people have been hailed as national heroes (and become TV sports personalities) for having lost bravely against some foreign champion or other.
> 
> When we look at other countries that share a similar culture to ours, especially Australia, for example, we see that the "good loser" attitude is definitely not the accepted thing there; if anything, the exact opposite. It seems that Australian sporting winners are seen as shining examples of the country's success; and the losers (who usually whinge a lot, it's fair to say) probably largely forgotten about.
> 
> What about in your country? Is success in sport seen as a fortunate, possible by-product of taking part, or the *only* reason for taking part? Are your winners admired and adored or envied and despised? Are your losers glorious or merely ridiculous? Do you think that these attitudes say anything about your culture in general?
> 
> Thanks for your opinions.



I must be exception here because for me losing just isnt an option and it drives me round the bend when our lads, be it at cricket, football or rugby ,play badly and lose especially against Antipodeans . Having said that I think the English attitude you mention is noble and probably correct as its not the winning that should count but taking part and doings ones best. Be magnanimous  in victory and defeat. Mind you I dont think that applies to the players though for there is so much at stake now.Nor does it apply to far too many soccer fans.
For Antiopodeans winning seems to be the only think that counts. I remember Jonh Howard handing out the medals to the winners of the last rugby WC-England; hardly a smile, hardly a glance at the English players. Just a very ungraceous attitiude on his part as he quickly handed out the medals with a sullen expression on his face.Shameful I thought


----------



## zaigucis

Latvia dont like losers. Ok, we are small country and there are no many sports where we can win medals. So, from sportsmans who can do it we expect a lot  And it seems that every Latvian knows how to play basketball, hockey and all other sports better than those who play it. So, if somebady lose game which are expected to win, Latvian will find 100 reasons why it is so. Of course if opponent is much stronger and it was very hard for him to win, then nobady complain that Latvia lose. Then we are saying "skaists zaudējums" (beauteous loss). But how we say here - better ugly win, then beauteous loss  

P.S. Please correct my horrible English


----------



## LouisaB

maxiogee said:


> We Irish admire a good loser too, but we still love anyone who beats the English at anything!


 


Mateamargo said:


> Talking about football, we Argentinians are good loosers. But when it comes to beat England, our feeling is fairly similar to the one exposed by maxiogee.


 
Oh, what it is to be despised by everybody! There can (of course) be no better tribute to our superiority... That quintessentially English writer of song lyrics, Michael Flanders, put it best - 'It's knowing they're _foreign_ that makes them so mad...'
Mind you, in the same song he goes on to laugh at the English attitude to sport, by criticising those same foreigners - 
'All over the world, it's always the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game,
They argue with umpires, they _cheer_ when they've won,
And they _practise beforehand_ which ruins the fun...'

But seriously, I suspect the English love of a loser derives from the fact we're so rubbish at everything. It isn't just sport. As the original question asks, our attitude here is symptomatic of our approach to everything else. In England when I was at school, everyone had heard of 'Scott of the Antarctic' - who was, of course, the man who _didn't_ make it to the Pole. Amundsen? Who's he? We'd much rather hear about the gallant English losers, and heroic Captain 'I may be some time' Oates, who crawled out to die so his companions' rations would last that much longer.

Losers both. But we love them. It's the old English thing of 'it isn't if you win or lose, but how you play the game'. Sad really. We also cheer when the Welsh, the Scots or the Irish win something. How stupid can you get? Luckily, we're changing. We've started to complain about 'umpires' ourselves. We've started to cheer when we win (if!!). We've even started to complain (mildly) about our taxes supporting the Scots, who have a right to decide on English laws, when we have no right to decide on theirs. Pretty soon we'll just be like anyone else.

And that will be _such_ a good thing, won't it?

Louisa


----------



## Luke Warm

Interesting topic.  Having played sports all over the US and in France and Germany, I’ve seen some contrasting approaches.  While I have many complaints about the seriousness of sport culture in general (it is just games after all) I admire certain aspects of American sport culture.  American sport culture preaches fair-play, graceful winning and losing, and not giving up until the final whistle, buzzer, or bell.  Certainly, there are instances when individual players try to cheat (ie. steroids) or an athlete shows another athlete up or doesn’t give all he (or she) has got, but these things are usually fiercely ridiculed.  Now I love living in Europe, but I find the sports culture lacking some of these graces.  
 
For example, I played American football a few years here in Germany and have been on both the winning and losing end of a game.  What I find interesting is the general despair that set in when our team was losing, even if there was still a chance of coming back.  On the other end, when we won, whether it was by 1 point or 64, my teammates would celebrate as if we had won the championship, throwing helmets in the air in joy.  Also, when winning by an insurmountable margin, where an American coach would receive harsh criticism for continuing to drive up the score (as opposed to switching to a conservative approach and running the clock down), in Germany it is apparently acceptable to continue a full-on attack.  
 
Another example-- I coached a high school basketball team here and we had a practice game against another school for which only 5 of my players could attend.  Each team supplied a referee, and the other team’s referee called so many fouls on my team that 2 of my players fouled out by halftime.  We ended up winning the league championship, so I’m sure that we weren’t as bad as this referee was indicating.  So, ahead by 20 points and playing with 5 players against our 3, the opposing team full-court pressed for the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter until I decided we weren’t going to continue playing, which of course they claimed was unsportsmanlike.  Mind you this was a PRACTICE game.  We had a real game 2 days later for which I didn’t want my team’s morale or conditioning to be destroyed, so I thought it was the right move, sportsmanlike or not.
 
Also, in playing pick-up basketball, in America, when in-bounding the ball from either out-of-bounds or after a score, the offensive team always waits for the defense to be ready before starting, usually “checking” the ball to a defensive player first.  In European football, I know that if the ball is to be thrown in from the side or if a minor penalty is called, the offense just goes without allowing the defense to be ready.  In European soccer, this may give an advantage, but usually will not be the difference between a goal or a stop.  But in basketball, this is a huge and, in my opinion, unfair advantage for the offensive team. 
 
I could speculate about what these cultural differences mean, but I’d just be guessing.  To be fair, there are certainly aspects of European culture that I strongly favor over the American equivalent.


----------



## Outsider

serg79_ said:


> In England, we consider ourselves to be "good losers" at sport; something we've had a lot of practice at.


Really? We have a different impression abroad. It seems English football fans break everything and beat up everyone whenever they lose a game. 

I don't believe in good losers. Some people just fake it better. But in Portugal it's so rare that we win anything, that we've got used to taking every chance to celebrate -- even when we lose.


----------



## TimeHP

Having read the trilogy of John King about football in UK and having read the book by Nick Nornby, _Fever Pitch,_ moreover having seen a special programme about football hooligans in Britain, I would have say that British people aren't so good losers as you say. 
Anyway I think that 'being a good loser' is an idea, an aim.
But generally losers aren't good at all...
 

Ciao


----------



## Etcetera

In Russia, the attitude towards winners and losers is rather curious. 
Let me take fugure skating as an example. On the last Olympics, our skaters won three gold medals out of four. I myself just couldn't believe it, it was so wonderful! But many people only shrugged and said, well, no one would expect anything else, would they? And what's more, at a show that took place shortly after the Olympics and in which all our famous skaters took part, it was Irina Slutskaya (who only got bronze!) who was greeted by the audience with storm of applause. As my Mum said, "Oh, we Russians are obviously better in pitying than in loving..."
Our wins in figure skating and some other sports, mainly winter, are always (or almost always) taken as granted.


----------



## Luke Warm

Etcetera said:


> Our wins in figure skating and some other sports, mainly winter, are always (or almost always) taken as granted.


 
Like Americans and basketball.  It's good to see that international competition has improved so much.  I find it much more interesting when a sport is competitive.  Winning too easily isn't as interesting as an underdog surprising everyone, even if they don't win the whole thing.


----------



## Hockey13

As a hockey player in the New York area for much of my life, I have been able to see people from a lot of different countries play. In the US, in the sport of hockey, sportsmanship is cherished. The only time you see a fight is if someone is breaking the unwritten rules of sportsmanship and, for lack of a better phrase, are asking for it. Now that's the ideal, but it's not so horrible an ideal to instill in people, though now all coaches instill that ideal. To the best of my knowledge, a lot of football, basketball, baseball, etc. coaches try to teach their players the same things.

Now in my experiences, I've played for Sergei Starakov (see: foul up that led to the Mike Eruzione goal in 1980 "Miracle on Ice") and Alexei Kasatonov, two Russian greats. Sergei was an interesting character who kept all of his medals (and they were many) suspended from an old hockey stick that hung over his fireplace. He knew very little English, but what he did know went to pushing us _very, very_ hard (I played for him when I was 13 and 14 years old), in what must have been the way he was pushed in the Soviet Union, and into ridiculing or demeaning us when we played badly. I remember one famous time when we were losing by about 4, he went down the bench and hit each of us on the helmet and said:

"You shit! You shit! You shit! You alright. You shit! You shit!"

The kid who he said was alright was the son of the head coach of the New Jersey Devils. When we won games, which was very often, he would be indifferent as if it was an expected result.

My other experience was with the slightly more famous Alexei Kasatonov. Alexei, if possible, was even more distant and gruff than his former teammate Sergei. Both had played in the NHL, but Alexei was by far more famous and had even been an NHL All Star. Despite their minor differences, they had the exact same coaching style of neglect and indifference in victory, and neglect and shaming in defeat. I am good friends to this day with Alexei's son, who is extremely good at hockey and could have gone pro, but his dad pushed him too hard.

Now, I wouldn't dare say, "so that's what the Russians are like," because I know such generalizations are rarely true. But I thought you would be interested to hear my experiences with these famous Russian hockey players.


----------



## serg79_

Outsider said:


> Really?


 
Yes, really . Although I should have been more clear in saying that with regard to the "good loser" thing, I was talking about the attitude of the sports people taking part and the reaction/acceptance of that attitude among the general public.

As for violent reactions from English football fans, thankfully that's largely a thing of the past (and not something exclusive to this country either)... Although it's fair to say that whenever I've been to a football match in Portugal (as a travelling English fan) the police have always tried to give us a good beating whatever the result. 

It's interesting about the different impressions thing though, because...



Mateamargo said:


> Talking about football, we Argentinians are good loosers.


We definitely don't have that impression here! (World Cup match against Germany comes to mind). And... 



Luke Warm said:


> American sport culture preaches fair-play, graceful winning and losing,


...even less so that one! Americans are generally viewed as win-at-any-cost, boastful victors and full-of-excuses, give-no-credit-to-the-opposition losers (possibly only surpassed by Australians; good example from don maico about that).

Seems they think the same about us too, though.



			
				Outsider said:
			
		

> I don't believe in good losers. Some people just fake it better.


You could be right...

Thanks, everyone, for your opinions.


----------



## don maico

Outsider said:


> Really? We have a different impression abroad. It seems English football fans break everything and beat up everyone whenever they lose a game.
> 
> I don't believe in good losers. Some people just fake it better. But in Portugal it's so rare that we win anything, that we've got used to taking every chance to celebrate -- even when we lose.


yes but they are very much the exception football hooligans that is.

What matters most is the contest. thewiner takes the spoils but the loser must also be acknowledged because without him there would be no contest


----------



## maxiogee

Outsider said:


> Really? We have a different impression abroad. It seems English football fans break everything and beat up everyone whenever they lose a game.



That's just the element which is attracted to football/soccer in many countries.
England's rugby fans - and in fact the fans of any of the 'home' nations - behave with exemplary decorum, even when fluthered drunk, when abroad. Win, lose or draw.


----------



## don maico

absolutely, although they did sing swing low sweet chariot during the haka which was a bit naughty but that was probably in response to Aaron Mauger's racism taunt


----------



## Luke Warm

serg79_ said:


> Americans are generally viewed as win-at-any-cost, boastful victors and full-of-excuses, give-no-credit-to-the-opposition losers


 
In America, there's actually a significant amount of debate about sportsmanship.  That isn't to say that all Americans practice good sportsmanship.  Since the end of the 1980s, there's been an increase in players showing each other up and some self-centered athletes openly disparage their own or other teams in the media, but this is pretty harshly criticized.  

Also to be considered is that due to the seriousness with which sport is taken by American society as a whole, the competition to become a professional athlete is rather cut-throat.  Many kids grow up aspiring to become professional athletes, and when they fall short as most do, they are entirely unprepared for any kind of realistic future.

Additionally, there seems to be a difference between the behavior of Americans participating in domestic and international competition.  The American media and politicians often rather blatantly push the notion that America is the best country in the world, so a degree of arrogance by American athletes in international athletics might be due to the fact that many expect to be better just for being American.  Of course, as always, there are exceptions, but this brand of American arrogance is at times quite noticeable in sport, business, and diplomacy.

Still, I would venture to say that, at least in domestic sport, American culture as a rule strives to promote fairness and good sportsmanship.  Though perhaps where possible, some athletes and coaches will take shortcuts to success-- so long as they aren't discovered.


----------



## deGerlaise

> [Losers both. But we love them. It's the old English thing of 'it isn't if you win or lose, but how you play the game'/QUOTE]
> Yes, I can see that. That's why certain of us love the English. Watching 'Eddy the Eagle' the English ski jumper at the Calgary Winter Olympics was like watching a turkey trying to take flight. It was breath taking. Will he land in one piece or not?! Canada loved him. A magnificent loser. The Scandanavians and the Germans thought he was disgraceful.
> Another completely different loser reference springs to mind. The panoply of English literature would be incomplete without the paean to the heroic loser 'The Charge of the Light Brigade'. Losing on an heroic scale.


----------



## maxiogee

don maico said:


> absolutely, although they did sing swing low sweet chariot during the haka which was a bit naughty


 
Why is not being intimidated by an intimidatory display "naughty"? The Haka is not a recognised part of the match, but is a thing which custom dictates the opposing team treat as a 'national anthem'-type moment, when they should stand respectfully still. No such stricture holds for the spectators.


----------



## Sallyb36

We always want the underdogs to win.  I'm sure that there are good and bad losers in every country, it's not a national thing i don't think.


----------



## aslan

In Turkey, If you want to be admired by people, you should win.Another option to be liked, You have to struggle   to win at least.I think it is an important point for this discussion here.Nobody criticise you while you play with your heart.Even you always lose.

In fact, It is quite difficult to say that we are sucessufull in different category of sports.We have about 75 million population (as an anecdote here, 15 -20 million of them live in Istanbul)and how do you say... We are  hungry of success.If a team or an  individual player have a big accomplishment in the world, admiration to him/her or them will be tremendous.As an example here, I remember the times of Galatasaray's UEFA Championships.It was incredible,People had gone crazy, It was spoken for many days..

In my opinion, this extreme  attitudes are also about our failure in other fields.I don t know It seems , as if people are looking for something to be happy, something that is recognized all over the world.


----------



## John-Paul

Here in the the US people cultivate the evolutionary need for competition into a mold in which children are shaped into hard-working God-fearing Americans. Don't forget, we're here on earth because our ancestors needed to win to survive. Now we do sports to exercise our bodies and reignite those archaic hormones. When it comes to watching sports it's also in a way a matter of survival - being part of the winning team improves the prospects of procreation. Competition, winning, therefor has become an intrinsical part of every day life. That's why, for instance, people here buy new cars every two years, to up end the neighbors. If you don't have a home theatre, you're a loser. If you drive a Hyundai, you're a loser, if you wear clothes brand X, you're a loser. If you don't have a job, because you are a stay at home dad, you're a loser!


----------



## maxiogee

John-Paul said:


> When it comes to watching sports it's also in a way a matter of survival - being part of the winning team improves the prospects of procreation.



Would you care to explain that one, please?
Are you saying that Joe Bloggs, who supports team XYZ, and sees them win their league/cup/championship, is going to have a better chance of procreating than the guy next door who doesn't support any team in any sport, and who never watches sport?




> Competition, winning, therefor has become an intrinsical part of every day life. That's why, for instance, people here buy new cars every two years, to up end the neighbors. If you don't have a home theatre, you're a loser. If you drive a Hyundai, you're a loser, if you wear clothes brand X, you're a loser. If you don't have a job, because you are a stay at home dad, you're a loser!


But only in the eyes of those to whom these things matter, surely?
There are many things which give 'the measure of a man', those things may be important to some people, but not all the judges are scoring off the same list of priorities.
The reason you have to have a new car every two years and a home theatre and wear certain labels (and only the current designs, within those labels) is becuase the capitalist system would grind to a rapid halt if "the masses" don't constantly consume.

It really is true, it isn't whether you win or lose (in anything, from life to sport) but in how you play whichever 'game' it is you're involved in. Idealising winning only does two things, makes one guy feel great until the next challenge, give a load of others a sense of failure. How much better to keep the competitive element but to see the event not as an event but as a process?


----------



## don maico

John-Paul said:


> Here in the the US people cultivate the evolutionary need for competition into a mold in which children are shaped into hard-working God-fearing Americans. Don't forget, we're here on earth because our ancestors needed to win to survive. Now we do sports to exercise our bodies and reignite those archaic hormones. When it comes to watching sports it's also in a way a matter of survival - being part of the winning team improves the prospects of procreation. Competition, winning, therefor has become an intrinsical part of every day life. That's why, for instance, people here buy new cars every two years, to up end the neighbors. If you don't have a home theatre, you're a loser. If you drive a Hyundai, you're a loser, if you wear clothes brand X, you're a loser. If you don't have a job, because you are a stay at home dad, you're a loser!



sorry ,but I have to say I'd hate living in that kind of social environment although it seems to creeping in  gradually here but then I tend to ignore the numpties who carry that attitude.
Personally I couldnt give a tinkers cuss what car my neighbour drove or how old mine was. I dont drive a Hyundai but they sure make some good LCDs and reasonably priced toff topic but I am just triying to show that too much competitiveness is not a good thing


----------



## don maico

maxiogee said:


> Why is not being intimidated by an intimidatory display "naughty"? The Haka is not a recognised part of the match, but is a thing which custom dictates the opposing team treat as a 'national anthem'-type moment, when they should stand respectfully still. No such stricture holds for the spectators.


I would far rather the england players developed their own Haka ( maybe a Morris dance?) and then thrashed the ABs whilst the fans stood respectul singing swing low during the match itself.


----------



## don maico

Sallyb36 said:


> We always want the underdogs to win.  I'm sure that there are good and bad losers in every country, it's not a national thing i don't think.


Yeah which is why we kinda like it when the Irish, Scots and Welsh pull off a win( except against our boys that is)


----------



## maxiogee

don maico said:


> I would far rather the england players developed their own Haka ( maybe a Morris dance?) and then thrashed the ABs whilst the fans stood respectul singing swing low during the match itself.



"the ABs"? Please!


----------



## Hockey13

John-Paul said:


> Here in the the US people cultivate the evolutionary need for competition into a mold in which children are shaped into hard-working God-fearing Americans. Don't forget, we're here on earth because our ancestors needed to win to survive. Now we do sports to exercise our bodies and reignite those archaic hormones. When it comes to watching sports it's also in a way a matter of survival - being part of the winning team improves the prospects of procreation. Competition, winning, therefor has become an intrinsical part of every day life. That's why, for instance, people here buy new cars every two years, to up end the neighbors. If you don't have a home theatre, you're a loser. If you drive a Hyundai, you're a loser, if you wear clothes brand X, you're a loser. If you don't have a job, because you are a stay at home dad, you're a loser!


 
I'm 90% sure you're being cynical, but even so, don't speak for everyone. I certainly don't hold these beliefs which tend to be present in all Western capitalist countries.


----------



## Mate

Hockey13 said:


> I'm 90% sure you're being cynical, but even so, don't speak for everyone. I certainly don't hold these beliefs which tend to be present in all Western capitalist countries.


I agree, but it is rather a matter of individuals, not countries. There are also eastern countries that have been strongly embracing those beliefs for a while now.


----------



## don maico

maxiogee said:


> "the ABs"? Please!


could happen ! Especially after a morris dance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_dance

http://www.themorrisring.org/
The ABs wont know what hit them


----------



## Maja

Outsider said:


> I don't believe in good losers. Some people just fake it  better


True.  True. 


zaigucis said:


> Latvia don't like losers. Ok, we are small country and there are no many sports where we can win medals. So, from sportsmen who can do it we expect a lot. And it seems that every Latvian knows how to play basketball, hockey and all other sports better than those who play it. So, if somebody losegame which are expected to win, Latvian will find 100 reasons why it is so. Of course if opponent is much stronger and it was very hard for him to win, then nobody complain that Latvia lose.


Same in Serbia. Most of the Serbs are sore losers. If our sportsmen win, we act as we all have won. Calibration on the streets, honking car horns, screaming and getting drunk (of course)! If they lose, we wash our hand of them, especially in group sports like football/ basketball/ volleyball/ fieldball/ water polo. Everyone is saying "they should have done this" or "they should have done that"... 
I think there were at  least 6 million Serbian selectors and coaches at the World Cup in Germany...


----------



## natasha2000

Maja said:


> True. True.
> Same in Serbia. Most of the Serbs are sore losers. If our sportsmen win, we act as we all have won. Calibration on the streets, honking car horns, screaming and getting drunk (of course)! If they lose, we wash our hand of them, especially in group sports like football/ basketball/ volleyball/ fieldball/ water polo. Everyone is saying "they should have done this" or "they should have done that"...
> I think there were at least 6 million Serbian selectors and coaches at the World Cup in Germany...


 
heheh.. You forgot composing a supporting song before going, and then the same music used but with different lyrics for mocking around with the loosers who came back home earlier than planned...

I read some of the posts, and I just can't help it, they made me smile... Especially the sentence like "We are good loosers" coming from England and Argentina, and especially if it is football in question.... I haven't seen any Spaniard, but I would be amased if some of them said the same: We are good loosers.. C'mon. When they loose, it's always somebody else's blame. Never theirs.
Let's face it, nobody likes loosers. Everybody likes to win. When a team wins, eveybody goes to wait for them at the airport. When they loose, nobody gives a damn for them, and everybody forgets that nobody is perfect, so neither sportsmen/women either. 
Furthermore, even if the sportsmen win constanltly, they somehow stop being the news anymore, and their wins are somehow taken for granted, as Etcetera said. Something similar happened to Serbia, we got too much used to winning in basketball, so when we started to loose, it was rather schocking... Although, I must admit, we always celebrated the winnings as they should be celebrated, and our basketball players felt like kings everytime they were coming back home with a trophey...


----------



## natasha2000

Mateamargo said:


> I agree, but it is rather a matter of individuals, not countries. There are also eastern countries that have been strongly embracing those beliefs for a while now.


 
Very true. The consumers mentality penetrates together with capitalism. I guess that's another sickness of a modern age...


----------



## Lusitania

maxiogee said:


> We Irish admire a good loser too, but we still love anyone who beats the English at anything!


 

It's good to read that


----------



## LouisaB

Lusitania said:


> It's good to read that


 
As a matter of interest - why? 

The Irish have many good historical reasons for not liking the English. It's not reciprocated, as it happens, and the English always support the Irish in any sport - unless it's against ourselves, of course!! - but we have only our past actions to blame. Personally, I hope the attitude will be eroded in time, as I have not found the Irish to be generally a racist people.

But why is it good for you to read this? 

Louisa


----------



## Lusitania

LouisaB said:


> As a matter of interest - why?
> But why is it good for you to read this?


 

it's was meant to be a joke as his was too. As Portugal doesn't win much and doesn't has that much visibility and in the world cup and euro we got to win the Uk. 
It wasn't meant to be either provocative or ofensive.


----------



## LouisaB

Lusitania said:


> it's a sort of a joke as Portugal doesn't win much and doesn't has that much visibility and in the world cup and euro we got to win the Uk. So, my remark was a joke as his was too. It wasn't meant to be either provocative or to ofensive.


 
No worries. Sorry, I'm a paranoid old bat. Everyone hates the English, you see....(sob)

Louisa


----------



## Lusitania

LouisaB said:


> No worries. Sorry, I'm a paranoid old bat. Everyone hates the English, you see....(sob)
> 
> Louisa


 
No way! Here there are many english people and we do get along fine. But defeating a big team coming from a small country and we are not that used to winning so, it kind of natural that we feel some pride on it.

We also have that feeling here that people from other countries think of us as inferiores, but it's not like that, well not most of the time


----------

