# The Cantigas de Santa Maria



## Rosefinch00

Hello,

I'm trying to write an essay on the Cantigas de Santa Maria, but sadly don't  speak Galician.  I figure it's pretty  close to Portuguese, so I thought someone here might be able to help me. It's quite a strange question...

What I need to know is whether the  word 'pera' in these 2 sentences could possibly mean a part of a city (the  commercial district in Constantinople).  I'm studying a particular miracle story (cantiga 46) and I've  just read an article claiming that Pera was a part of Constantinople,  and that this means that the miracle was set there, but the Galician edition of the Cantigas by Walter Mettmann  didn't realise this, and neither does the  English translation based on it.

So if you could possibly look at these 2  sentences and see whether it would make sense for 'Pera' to be a place,  that would be amazing. Or if not, how would you translate the word?

 "Como partiron a presa e fillou pera ssi huna omage de Sancta Maria que trouxeron yi"

''Daquel aver que partiu foi en pera ssi fillar hua omagen que vyu da Virgen que non a par"

Any help would be fantastic - thank you!


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## Vanda

Welcome to the forums. 

I may be dreaming but I am quite sure it is ''para''= to.
Let's wait for Xiao to help us.


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## uchi.m

Welcome to the Portuguese forum, Rose 

É 小先生 que vai te salvar ou Genésio? _Pera _= pela?


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## Rosefinch00

Thanks...this theory that it's a place in Constantinople comes from an academic (Rocio Sánchez Ameijeiras_) _who is actually writing in Galician so I assume she knows what she is talking about with the language - but obviously I have no idea myself, so I just wanted a second opinion. It can't be a clear-cut thing, because otherwise more people would have noticed it, but if there is ambiguity in the grammar so that 'Pera' COULD be a place-name, that would be enough to let me make the argument!


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## Vanda

I think that if it was a name it would come with capital letter, but from those days, who knows? Another thing, I have a slight remembrance from my literary studies of ancient Portuguese and it seems pretty much with the preposition ''para'' or ''pela'' according to context. Anyway, just wait a little for our Galician expert, Xiao, to appear. I've sent him a note.


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## XiaoRoel

Pera ssi fillar = para sí tomar. É lingua medieval. Omage(n) = imagem.
Como repartiron a presa (o espólio) e tomou para ele própio uma imagem de Santa Maria que trouxeram ali (lá).
Daquel espólio (está a falar do reparto do roubado entre uns piratas mouros) foi dele para sí tomar uma imagem que viu da Vrgem que non tem igual
A versão que tenho eu é um pouco diferente da proposta. Este e o milagre do mouro que logo de fazer pirataria, no reparto da presa (espólio) ele tomou para sí (fillou pera ssi) uma imagem da virgem Maria e logo de razoar como poderia deus encarnar numa mulher, sem entender o mistério, a virgem deitou leite pelas tetas (que foron logo mãar e deitar leite come per canudos). Com este milagre ele faz-se cristão e libera os presos que cativara e o espólio que tomara.
Esse _yi_ da sua versão (não na edição crítica de Mettmann, debe ser i (tambén grafado _hy_, _hi_, ou _y_, e até mesmo _j_), é o advérbio de lugar aí. *En* é un pronome de matéria como o francés _en_ (disso, daquilo, etc).


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## Vanda

Aha! The way I had understood it. I can still remember the Cantigas from our literary studies of Portuguese.


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## Rosefinch00

Ah...I maybe should have mentioned that I don't speak Portuguese either! Could someone possibly translate the gist of that, because it looks super helpful!


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## Vanda

XiaoRoel said:


> Pera ssi fillar = para sí tomar. É lingua medieval. Omage(n) = imagem. (medieval language - to take the image/idol for himself)
> Como repartiron a presa (o espólio) e tomou para ele própio uma imagem de Santa Maria que trouxeram ali (lá). (how they have made the partition of the plunders and he has taken an image/idol of Santa Maria to himself)
> Daquel espólio (está a falar do reparto do roubado entre uns piratas mouros) foi dele para sí tomar uma imagem que viu da Vrgem que non tem igual (From that plunder, he has taken an image of the Virgin and there is no image like that one)



Just a small grasp of it. I am pretty sure someone will help with the rest of it.


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## Vanda

A grasp of the rest of Xiao's post:


> Este e o milagre  do mouro que logo de fazer pirataria, no reparto da presa (espólio) ele  tomou para sí (fillou pera ssi) uma imagem da virgem Maria e logo de  razoar como poderia deus encarnar numa mulher, sem entender o mistério, a  virgem deitou leite pelas tetas (que foron logo mãar e deitar leite  come per canudos). Com este milagre ele faz-se cristão e libera os  presos que cativara e o espólio que tomara.
> 
> It is the report about a Moor that on making the partition of a pirating spoil he has taken for himself   (fillou pera ssi) a Virgin Mary image and without understanding the mystery, the virgin has lactate. After this miracle the Moor became a Christian and released the prisioners and returned the spoils from pirating. (This is the version Xiao's have).
> 
> 
> Esse _yi_ da sua versão (não na edição crítica de Mettmann, debe ser i (tambén grafado _hy_, _hi_, ou _y_, e até mesmo _j_), é o advérbio de lugar aí. *En* é un pronome de matéria como o francés _en_ (disso, daquilo, etc).
> 
> The  _yi_ is the adverb aí- there. *En *is a pronoun like the _en _in French.


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## Rosefinch00

Sorry to be stupid - but does Xiao (or anyone!) have an opinion on whether it is grammatically valid to read the word 'pera'  as a toponym? I've got a translation of the miracle itself, it's just that question I need to answer!


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## Vanda

Not in that context of this text. _Pera_ is the ancient word for to=para.


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## Rosefinch00

Ok, well thanks very much.  I wonder why Sánchez Ameijeiras thought so then. Hmmmm...


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## XiaoRoel

Não conheço nenhuma preposição que tenha dado, assim sozinha, um topónimo. Que é o que di o Sánchez Ameijeiras no que a isto respecta?


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## SofiaB

Hello Rose,
Post the commentary you have here and maybe it can be analyzed.


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## Rosefinch00

Ok, thanks - I will have to order the book from the library so it might be a couple of days but I'll put it up here.


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## Rosefinch00

I hope you can enlarge this to read it! Anyway, she doesn't really state WHY she sees it as a toponym, just assumes it is. But she is a respected academic and has got this published multiple times, so I assume it is a plausible theory...


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## Vanda

And, probably, just that: a theory.


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## XiaoRoel

Esse *Pêra* topónimo é outra forma de *pedra *(<petram)*, *comum nos topónimos, como por exemplo, _Parafita_, '_pedra fincada_'. Nada a ver com a preposição medieval *pera* (<per ad).
Não há dúvida: *pera* no sintagma *pera ssi*, só pode ser a preposição *pera*, na língua moderna seria _para si próprio_.


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