# Tarabiza ترابيزة



## the-quality-man-4

What does "Tarabiza"mean?


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## ayed

It means *a table*


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## Josh_

A more accurate transliteration would be "_Tarabeeza_."

Edited to add: Actually, it can be pronounced "_Tarabiiza_" kamaan.


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## Nikola

طاولة  is MSA and comes from Latin. Tawla is used in many dialects.You might want to know that tarabeeza is Egyptian colloquial which comes from Greek.In some Gulf states meez from Persian is used.


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## kifaru

I always see طاولة transliterated with a vowel after the  و  .


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## Faylasoof

That is correct: طاولة  = taawula. It is derived more directly from the Italian 'tavola', not Latin. The Greek word for table is τραπεζα, and ميز used in both Farsi and Urdu is also perhaps of European origin. In Pahlavi (Middle) Persian this word doesn't exist as far as I can tell.


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## Josh_

In MSA it is pronounced _Taawila_, but in Egyptian it is pronounced _Tawla_ (like طَولة kind of) because the 'i' is elided, which then leaves the 'w' and 'l' side by side. And since no long vowels are allowed before two consecutive consonants in Egyptian the ـا is shortened to just ــَـ.


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## londonmasri

Josh_ said:


> In MSA it is pronounced _Taawila_, but in Egyptian it is pronounced _Tawla_ (like طَولة kind of) because the 'i' is elided, which then leaves the 'w' and 'l' side by side. And since no long vowels are allowed before two consecutive consonants in Egyptian the ـا is shortened to just ــَـ.


 
And just to add,(unless I have heard incorrectly) _Tawla_ in Egypt means backgammon (not that I know how to play)


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## Faylasoof

I was pronouncing it as ‘Taawila’ until very recently as I always thought that was so in MSA. But when I looked at Hans Wehr’s dictionary, it was written as ‘Taawula’! Hence my comment. I still falter and keep using the first version. Perhaps both are right.


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## havle

طرابيزة = طاولة = table


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## Josh_

Faylasoof said:


> I was pronouncing it as ‘Taawila’ until very recently as I always thought that was so in MSA. But when I looked at Hans Wehr’s dictionary, it was written as ‘Taawula’! Hence my comment. I still falter and keep using the first version. Perhaps both are right.


Interesting,  I always thought it was only "_Taawila_."  Looking in my Hans Wehr it has both _Taawila_ and _Taawula_ listed side by side as possible pronounciations with _Taawila_ first.


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## the-quality-man-4

Merci,merci,merci beaucoup.


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## Josh_

londonmasri said:


> And just to add,(unless I have heard incorrectly) _Tawla_ in Egypt means backgammon (not that I know how to play)


Yes, that it correct.


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## Faylasoof

Apart from 'Taawila' / 'Taawula', MSA also uses 'Maa'idah' ( مائدة ). A dining table =مائدة السُفرة / الطعام , and also it could be طاولة السُفرة / الطعام. p>


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## Mahaodeh

Also خُوان ومنضدة


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## hence

very informative
thanks y'all


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## Faylasoof

Ah! منضدة did come to mind, but I thought this was more like a desk or a bench.... and  خُوان is from Farsi so I assume it is used only in 'aamiyia and not MSA.


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## djamal 2008

Is it the same as derbouz wich means in our dialect counter (comptoir).


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## Mahaodeh

Faylasoof said:


> Ah! منضدة did come to mind, but I thought this was more like a desk or a bench.... and خُوان is from Farsi so I assume it is used only in 'aamiyia and not MSA.


 
Actually I use منضدة for a side table, coffee table or similar small tables. A desk is مَكْتِب and a bench is مسطبة.  I don't know if anyone uses خُوان in any dialect, it's actually MSA and you can find it in Lisaan Al-Arab.  Yes, it is a loanword.  The difference between خُوان and مائدة (in fus7a) is that the latter is used for a table set for a meal while the former is for the empty table (like كأس وقدح).


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## djamal 2008

mahaodeh said:


> actually i use منضدة for a side table, coffee table or similar small tables. A desk is مَكْتِب and a bench is مسطبة.  I don't know if anyone uses خُوان in any dialect, it's actually msa and you can find it in lisaan al-arab.  Yes, it is a loanword.  The difference between خُوان and مائدة (in fus7a) is that the latter is used for a table set for a meal while the former is for the empty table (like كأس وقدح).



الإسم المكان يكون على وزن مفعل أو مفعلة: مثل ملعب ؛ مزبلة.


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## Faylasoof

I don’t want to be seen getting mileage out of this, but from one of the above posts (no. 4) I had assumed that  ترابيزه was Egyptian ‘aamiyah, however it is listed in Han’s Wehr, so it is not Egyptian colloquial but MSA (?)  Interestingly, Wehr also  states that مسطبة  is a stone-bench; which also happened to be the title, with this meaning, of one of  Zaki Mubarak’s essays in his collection وحي بغداد .  Al-Mawrid and Wehr for desk mention both مكتب and منضدة. So now we have quite a collection of tables and desks!


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## Mahaodeh

But it's not اسم مكان (by the way, ism is with hamzat waSl), مَكْتَب = maktab = office is ism makaan.

However, I did make a mistake; it is not مَكْتِب, it's مِكْتَب = miktab (I got the kasra and fat7a the wrong way round, sorry, it was a typo) = desk; it is ism ala اسم آلة like مبرد ومشرط ومقصّ.


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## the-quality-man-4

thank y'all.


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## Mr.Slade

Faylasoof said:


> <...> ميز used in both Farsi and Urdu is also perhaps of European origin.


 
Possibly from Portuguese mesa. The Portuguese were all over the Gulf.

Maybe there are so many loanwords in Arabic for "table" because it is an imported concept.


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## Faylasoof

There is an ongoing discussion here.


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## Mahaodeh

Mr.Slade said:


> Maybe there are so many loanwords in Arabic for "table" because it is an imported concept.


 
This doesn't really make much sense; most invensions are imported from the place it was invented to everywhere else in the world - starting with the wheel; but that doesn't really mean that you can't have your own word for it. Also, you could have invented the thing yourself yet through the years you become more accustomed to using an imported word for it rather than a name you invent yourself.

An airplane is an imported concept, but we have an Arabic name for it, shampoo is an Arabic concpet yet we use a loanword for it!!


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## Mr.Slade

Mahaodeh said:


> This doesn't really make much sense; most invensions are imported from the place it was invented to everywhere else in the world - starting with the wheel; but that doesn't really mean that you can't have your own word for it. Also, you could have invented the thing yourself yet through the years you become more accustomed to using an imported word for it rather than a name you invent yourself.
> 
> An airplane is an imported concept, but we have an Arabic name for it, shampoo is an Arabic concpet yet we use a loanword for it!!


 
True. Surely the Arabs had music before they all adopted the single loanward for it that they all use. But tarabeeza, taawila, meez, maa'ida, khuwaan, mindada, tabla, mida, sufra -- it's almost as though they still haven't decided what to call this new thing.


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## Faylasoof

The existence of multiple synonyms doesn’t imply indecision about naming something nor does it indicate that something happens to be new. For some “old” objects / living things too fus7a Arabic seems to have multiple synonyms. The lion would top the list if one takes _all_ the references into account.  The sword also seems to have many names, as does the horse. The various ‘aamiyaa usages only add to this multiplicity, it seems. 

  Bye the way, I’m not an Arab!


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