# Since John broke up .., John wants [tenses?]



## funda521

Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl. Isn't there something wrong with tenses?


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## JustKate

Yes, there is. (And actually, I think there is a problem or two in addition to the tenses.) But we need a specific question. What do you think might be wrong with the tenses? You don't have to be correct, but give us your best guess.


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## Never Ever

Since John broke up with Mary two years ago 
John wants to marry another girl 

Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl.


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## JustKate

I'm afraid, Never Ever, that doesn't make much sense. The two halves of the sentences (either the original or your rewrite) don't really fit together very well.


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## Never Ever

Why do they not fit?

Since I visited Dubai two years ago, I've been wanting to learn Arabic. Does this not make sense either?


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## funda521

shouldnt it be like 'John broke up with mary two years ago. Since he is single , he wants to marry again'


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:
			
		

> Why do they not fit?





			
				Never Ever said:
			
		

> Since I visited Dubai two years ago, I've been wanting to learn Arabic. Does this not make sense either?




Yes, it does. The problem with your sentence isn't grammatical, it's the two thoughts that don't go together. "John broke up with Mary two years ago" is fine. "John wants to get married" is fine. But what does John wanting to get married have to do with his breaking up with Mary? Maybe it would make sense in the correct context.

In any case, that's not exactly what Funda521's sentence says.


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## Never Ever

funda521 said:


> shouldnt it be like 'John broke up with mary two years ago. Since he is single , he wants to marry again'



Well yeah, it might well be that or a number of other permutations, but I can't see anything wrong with _Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl_ from a grammar point of view.

OK John may be a bit of a weirdo, but grammatically the sentence makes sense. At least it does to me.


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> Yes, it does. The problem with your sentence isn't grammatical, it's the two thoughts that don't go together. "John broke up with Mary two years ago" is fine. "John wants to get married" is fine. But what does John wanting to get married have to do with his breaking up with Mary? Maybe it would make sense in the correct context.


Maybe John is one of these people who hate being alone. So what the sentence is saying is that ever since he split up he's been wanting to marry. He wants to be married again and he's been wanting to get married ever since he split up.


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## JustKate

funda521 said:


> shouldnt it be like 'John broke up with mary two years ago. Since he is single , he wants to marry again'



The sentence is quite badly structured, Funda521 - in fact, it's so clumsy that I'm not really sure what the writer is trying to say. I think what  he or she is trying to say is that John has been single for two years - ever since he and Mary broke up - but he has now fallen in love with and wants to marry another woman.

We can't tell if he and Mary were married (you can "break up" with any romantic partner - you don't have to be married to her) and we can't really tell what the fact that he broke up with Mary has to do with his new relationship. The sentence doesn't make any of this very clear, at least not to me. Maybe I am making it too complicated and it will be clear to someone else.


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> Well yeah, it might well be that or a number of other permutations, but I can't see anything wrong with _Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl_ from a grammar point of view.
> 
> OK John may be a bit of a weirdo, but grammatically the sentence makes sense. At least it does to me.



I agree that it makes sense grammatically - I said so in my post #7. However, it doesn't make much sense from a narrative standpoint, at least to me. It might with more context, but we don't have more context.


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> The sentence is quite badly structured, Funda521 - in fact, it's so clumsy that I'm not really sure what the writer is trying to say. I think what  he or she is trying to say is that John has been single for two years - ever since he and Mary broke up - but he has now fallen in love with and wants to marry another woman.


I don't think that's what he's trying to say at all.

John broke up two years ago and has been interested in another girl ever since. He wants to marry this girl, but for whatever reason this hasn't happened.

Or it could be that John was married and since he got divorced he's been wanting to remarry to a girl, any girl. He just wants to be in a "proper" relationship.


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> I don't think that's what he's trying to say at all.
> 
> John broke up two years ago and has been interested in another girl ever since. He wants to marry this girl, but for whatever reason this hasn't happened.
> 
> Or it could be that John was married and since he got divorced he's been wanting to remarry to a girl, any girl. He just wants to be in a "proper" relationship.



The sentence as written is flawed. Either _since_ is incorrect or _wants_ is incorrect (or both, I guess ). Those two words are not in the same tense, and that messes with the meaning of the sentence. That's why in the example you mentioned - "Since I visited Dubai two years ago, I've been wanting to learn Arabic" - you wrote "been wanting" instead of "want." _Been wanting_ works; _want_ does not.

Your interpretation is based on the assumption that _since_ is the correct word here - that what the writer meant was "ever since John broke up with Mary." If that's the case, then we need to rewrite the second part of the sentence. 

But if _since_ is wrong, and I don't see why it can't be - if the writer can be wrong about _wants_, why not _since_? and anyway people do make errors with that word with some frequency - that interpretation just doesn't work. 

What this example shows is how confusing a badly written sentence can be. I can't tell exactly what it means, and neither can anybody else except the author.


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> The sentence as written is flawed. Either _since_ is incorrect or _wants_ is incorrect (or both, I guess ). Those two words are not in the same tense, and that messes with the meaning of the sentence. That's why in the example you mentioned - "Since I visited Dubai two years ago, I've been wanting to learn Arabic" - you wrote "been wanting" instead of "want." _Been wanting_ works; _want_ does not.


I've already said that the original sentence doesn't work and suggested an alternative as follows:

_Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl._

You said this didn't make sense, so I gave you another example using the same tense choices and sentence structure:

_Since I visited Dubai two years ago, I've been wanting to learn Arabic._

Since + past tense -> present perfect continuous.

To me, both of the above examples make sense. Since something happened at a point in the past, I've been wanting (and still want) to do something else. In the first case John remains unmarried and wishes for marriage, in the second case I can't speak Arabic but I still want to study it.


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## JustKate

Never Ever, it's not that your sentence doesn't make sense because it could in context. It is certainly grammatical. I said that before. But that's not what the original sentence *says*. The  original sentence might mean that or it could mean something entirely different. But you can't say for certain, and neither can I. Neither of us can say exactly what that sentence means because it is worded badly and that makes it unclear.


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## Loob

I agree with Kate, Never Ever:
_Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl._
_Ever since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl._(though still a bit odd...)

Funda521, it would be helpful if you could come back and tell us more about what your concern is.


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## Myridon

Never Ever said:


> John broke up two years ago and has been interested in *another girl* ever since. He wants to marry *this girl*, but for whatever reason this hasn't happened.


You seem have a particular "another girl" in mind.  I think most native speakers would read your original sentence as meaning an unspecified girl that he probably hasn't even met yet.
Ever since John and Mary broke up, there is another girl, Susan, that John wants to marry.  (I assume this is why Mary dumped him. He must have already been dating Susan if he wanted to marry her immediately after he and Mary broke up.)


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## Never Ever

The original question was as follows:

S_ince John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl. Isn't there something wrong with tenses?

_The original poster asks if there's something wrong with the tenses. As far as I can see, "since John broke up with Mary two years ago" is perfectly correct, that is there is nothing wrong with the tense used.

John wants to marry another girl would be fine as a standalone sentence. However, if we are to link it with a point-in-time reference (since John broke up with Mary two years ago or since 2011 for that matter) then the tense would have to change from the present simple to the present perfect continuous.

Bottom line, if the author means to say that John's been wanting to get married since 2011, that's fine. If he wants to say something else, he needs to think of a different sentence structure - and in that case, it's not just the tenses that are wrong.


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## Never Ever

Myridon said:


> You seem have a particular "another girl" in mind.  I think most native speakers would read your original sentence as meaning an unspecified girl that he probably hasn't even met yet.


It could be a particular "another girl" or it could be "any other girl". Whether the girl is known or not makes no difference to the tenses you use.


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## JustKate

Let's go back to the original: _Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl._

If we interpret this literally and assume that the tenses are correct (a fairly shaky assumption), what this actually says is "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl."

That's what I meant when I said it doesn't make sense, and I think that's why Funda521 thought it sounded odd. It does sound odd. It *is* odd.

But the only way to correct it is to figure out what we really want to say. So, Funda521, since the original writer didn't give us much help, what do you think the sentence is supposed to say? We can then figure out the right way to say it.

_(Cross-posted with Never Ever)_


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## Never Ever

Loob said:


> I agree with Kate, Never Ever:
> _Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl._
> _Ever since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl._(though still a bit odd...)


These two sentences are practically identical. What makes one of them  and the other ???


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> Let's go back to the original: _Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl._
> 
> If we interpret this literally and assume that the tenses are correct (a fairly shaky assumption), what this actually says is "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl."
> 
> That's what I meant when I said it doesn't make sense, and I think that's why Funda521 thought it sounded odd. It does sound odd. It *is* odd.


Yes, I agree. The original sentence makes no logical sense. However, if you change the tense in the second sentence (wants to marry = has been wanting to marry) then the sentence makes perfect sense. OK John is a bit bizarre, but at least we know what's going on: John broke up in 2011 and John has had a wish to marry since 2011. There may be a cause and effect connection between the two actions or they could be unrelated.


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> These two sentences are practically identical. What makes one of them  and the other ???



Because the meaning that most native speakers would assign to "since" here is "because" - "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl." That is what makes the sentence so confusing. When you added "Ever" to "Ever since," you eliminated one source of confusion.


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> Because the meaning that most native speakers would assign to "since" here is "because" - "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl." That is what makes the sentence so confusing. When you added "Ever" to "Ever since," you eliminated one source of confusion.


Since means time. Since 2011, John has been wanting to marry. Makes perfect sense and in this case since means since, not because.

I've already offered a possible explanation for why John may be wanting to marry since/ever since he broke up. He's simply a serial monogamist. As soon as or because (if you prefer) he broke up and became single, he's been wanting to be married again (and not be single any more). For some reason that hasn't happened, but that's what he wanted then and that's what he still wants now => therefore _that's what he's been wanting_.


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## Loob

Never Ever said:


> Since means time.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Again, I agree with Kate.

And again, I think it's important that Funda521 comes back, so we can address her question in more detail.


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> Since means time. Since 2011, John has been wanting to marry. Makes perfect sense and in this case since means since, not because.



_Since_ also means _because_. A lot of purists (and even not-really-purists) don't like this, but it is a fact. It is used this way a lot.

And as usual, Loob is right - we need to hear back from Funda521.


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## funda521

John broke up with Mary two years ago. He has been wanting to marry again since then. ??


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> _Since_ also means _because_. A lot of purists (and even not-really-purists) don't like this, but it is a fact. It is used this way a lot.


It makes no difference whether since means since or because. It makes no difference to the tense that follows and it makes no difference to the (potential) meaning.

Since I visited Dubai, I've been wanting to learn Arabic.

Does it really matter whether my reason for wanting to learn Arabic is because I visited Dubai or not? What if my desire to learn Arabic and my visit to Dubai just coincided? Grammatically the sentence is correct. The meaning may be open to interpretation, but the grammar is fine.


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## JustKate

funda521 said:


> John broke up with Mary two years ago. He has been wanting to marry again since then. ??



Sure. Maybe. It could be a particular girl, but you'd think if that were the case, some mention would be made of this other girl. So I would guess that you mean something like that he's tired of being single and wants to find someone and get married again? Is that at all what you have in mind?


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## funda521

I am not the one who formed that complex sentence. It was written in my friends note pad. So i dont know what ever the one who wrote it meant to tell. :/


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## Never Ever

Could it be a translation error?

In Greek, if you wanted to say "since he broke up, he's been wanting to marry" you'd use past tense and simple present, so you'd say "since he broke up, he wants to marry". Is it the same in Turkish?


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## Loob

funda521 said:


> I am not the one who formed that complex sentence. It was written in my friends note pad. So i dont know what ever the one who wrote it meant to tell. :/


Ah, thank you for the context, funda521!

The bottom line is - yes, I think there _is_ something strange about your friend's sentence.

But it's not only the choice of tenses....


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:
			
		

> It makes no difference whether since means since or because. It makes no difference to the tense that follows and it makes no difference to the (potential) meaning.



Of course it makes a difference. If a word has two distinct and different meanings and that word is the one that starts a sentence, of course it makes a difference as to the meaning, and here it does make a difference to the tense. The _because_ meaning implies a completely different relationship between the two halves of the sentence than does the _ever sinc_e meaning.



funda521 said:


> I am not the one who formed that complex sentence. It was written in my friends note pad. So i dont know what ever the one who wrote it meant to tell. :/



Oh, I understand. But as written, the sentence is so confusing because of that tense problem that bothered you in the beginning that it's impossible to say what it really means. So what we suggested is that you say what you want the sentence to mean, and then we can help you say it while avoiding the tense problems in the original. 

On the other hand, if all you wanted to know is, "Is there something odd, something wrong, with this sentence?" that's an easy question, because the answer is yes.  There is a problem with the tenses, and the only way to correct it is to figure out which tense is intended.


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## funda521

Not really. We would say "since he broke up, he's been wanting to marry" the other one would sound quite odd in Turkish. So I dont think that it is a translation error. Its just incomplete i guess.


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## Never Ever

Perhaps you should ask your friend what he meant, and then tell us!


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> Of course it makes a difference. If a word has two distinct and different meanings and that word is the one that starts a sentence, of course it makes a difference as to the meaning, and *here it does make a difference to the tense*. The _because_ meaning implies a completely different relationship to the two halves of the sentence than does the _ever sinc_e meaning.


This is doing my head in. Seriously.

Can you give me one example with the word *since* meaning "time" and another with the word since meaning "because" and the different tenses it goes with?

As far as I can see, all the examples anyone's given with since or ever since follow the same pattern irrespective of meaning: since/ever since + past simple -> present perfect continuous.

Can you give me some examples using different tenses depending on the use of since?

The examples don't need to involve marriage or break ups 

Thanks!


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## funda521

since (because) he is an adult, he can do what ever he wants. 



Since he became an adult, he has been making more reasonable decisions.


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## Never Ever

How does the first example [since (because) he is an adult, he can do what ever he wants] relate to the original sentence? Could we say "since he breaks up two years ago"?

If we can't say "since he breaks up two years ago" and we have to say "since he broke up two years ago" don't we - by your definition - use since to mean "since a point in time" and not "because"?

To me, it's blatantly obvious that the _since_ in the original sentence is used as a time reference, that's why it says "since... two years ago".


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> This is doing my head in. Seriously.
> 
> Can you give me one example with the word *since* meaning "time" and another with the word since meaning "because" and the different tenses it goes with?
> 
> As far as I can see, all the examples anyone's given with since or ever since follow the same pattern irrespective of meaning: since/ever since + past simple -> present perfect continuous.
> 
> Can you give me some examples using different tenses depending on the use of since?
> 
> The examples don't need to involve marriage or break ups
> 
> Thanks!



Well, I can try. What the two distinct meanings of _since_ do is define the relationship between the two clauses, and those are different relationships.

A clause that uses the time meaning of _since_ means "Starting with this particular point in time." But a clause that uses the "because" meaning of _since_ means "As a result of." For an example that doesn't involve marriages and breakups, let's try this one: "Since she was away at Christmas, Viola is happier." Because of the two different meanings of _since_, it's possible to interpret this sentence two different ways. It could mean, "She's been a happier person in the period following her Christmas trip." But it could mean "She's been a happier person as a result of going away at Christmas." There is a different relationship between the clauses in those sentences just because of the different meanings of _since_, and that gives you two different meanings for the sentence.

When you apply these different meanings to the sentence that puzzled Funda521 - and the rest of us  - the difference becomes even more important because of the messed-up tenses. If you interpret it literally, using only the words supplied by the writer, the most likely interpretation of what it says is "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl." Now that just doesn't make a lot of sense. It might if you add some extra facts to it, but as it's written, it puts those two thoughts together and forces us to guess what relationship they have to each other. What does breaking up with Mary two years ago have to do with John wanting to marry another girl? Is there already another girl and he's waiting...but why is he waiting? Is he trying to find another girl? But if so, why not just say so? The sentence doesn't convey information - it instead inspires confusion.

Your interpretation is also possible: "Ever since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl." Which is still a bit confusing - what girl? what does this have to do with Mary? - but it doesn't have that pesky tense problem of the original, and it makes more sense than the literal interpretation. The problem with it is that in order to arrive at this interpretation, you had to rewrite the sentence, and there's no way to tell if you've said is what the writer meant. You had to guess. My guess would be that it means "John and Mary broke up two years ago, and since then he's been hoping to find somebody new." But there's no way to tell for sure if this is what the writer meant, either. I had to guess, too. 

If we're wrong, though, the fault isn't yours, nor is it mine. It's with the original sentence.


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## Loob

*Excellent* explanation, Kate!


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> A clause that uses the time meaning of _since_ means "Starting with this particular point in time." But a clause that uses the "because" meaning of _since_ means "As a result of." For an example that doesn't involve marriages and breakups, let's try this one: "Since she was away at Christmas, Viola is happier." Because of the two different meanings of _since_, it's possible to interpret this sentence two different ways. It could mean, "She's been a happier person in the period following her Christmas trip." But it could mean "She's been a happier person as a result of going away at Christmas." There is a different relationship between the clauses in those sentences just because of the different meanings of _since_, and that gives you two different meanings for the sentence.


So, bottom line, the original sentence could be correct. Shock horror 

Since (because) John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl (i.e. he wants to remarry) (maybe because he feels that one shouldn't remain unmarried for more than two years).

Therefore, the correct response to the OP should have been that there's nothing wrong with the tenses, it's just that John has a stange outlook on life.

Or it could be that in this case, since means since, not because, and one of the tenses is indeed wrong, like the OP suspected.

Either way, we'd have to ask the author to elaborate. Perhaps the OP can do that and feed back.


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## RM1(SS)

JustKate said:


> We can't tell if he and Mary were married (you can "break up" with any romantic partner - you don't have to be married to her)



Since John "broke up with" Mary, rather than divorcing her (or getting divorced from her), my assumption would be that they were not married.

Can we go with a totally obvious meaning? "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl." = "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John doesn't want to marry Mary any more; he wants to marry another girl instead."


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## Loob

I'm not sure where you're coming from, Never Ever.

We try to be helpful here - although we don't always succeed.


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## Wordsmyth

While you were putting together that excellent explanation, Kate, I was writing some thoughts that happen to tack perfectly on to one of your points.


Never Ever said:


> _[...] _Can you give me one example with the word *since* meaning "time" and another with the word since meaning "because" and the different tenses it goes with?


 We've already seen such examples:

_*Time*:_ Your own suggestion, Never Ever, of "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he's been wanting to marry another girl". The use of the present perfect continuous signals that the wanting has been happening since the moment when they broke up.

_*'Because'*:_ "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl". This is effectively funda's original post, and the use of the present "wants" signals that "since" can't mean "from the moment of their break-up". By default then (and it's how I instinctively read post #1), it must mean "because".



JustKate said:


> _ [...]_ If you interpret it literally, using only the words supplied by the writer, the most likely interpretation of what it says is "Because John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl." Now that just doesn't make a lot of sense. It might if you add some extra facts to it, but as it's written, it puts those two thoughts together and forces us to guess what relationship they have to each other._ [...]_



... Which is exactly what I did when I first read the original post. The scenario it suggested to me was: 
John and Mary were in a deep relationship (probably engaged). For a long time after they broke up, John didn't feel he could face such a committed relationship again. However, *because* two years have passed, his feelings have changed and he wants to marry another girl.

With that scenario the tenses, as written, do work: it's not because they broke up; it's because it was two years ago that they broke up.

Ws


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## Never Ever

RM1(SS) said:


> Since John "broke up with" Mary, rather than divorcing her (or getting divorced from her), my assumption would be that they were not married.
> 
> Can we go with a totally obvious meaning? "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John wants to marry another girl." = "Since John broke up with Mary two years ago, John doesn't want to marry Mary any more; he wants to marry another girl instead."


I like this - it seems obvious when you explain it like that.

As has already been mentioned, perhaps there's nothing wrong with the tenses at all, John just has a complicated life


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## irinet

Sorry NeverEver, but I would never say 'he's been wanting' because 'want' is a verb not used in the Continuos aspect.


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## Never Ever

So... how would you say that you've been wanting something for a long time?

Have a look at this review titled A place I've been wanting to try: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUs...8027-Aldo_of_Italy-Waterbury_Connecticut.html

Or this blog post by life coach Tiffany Han: http://www.tiffanyhan.com/blog/2013/1/21/ive-been-wanting-to-tell-you.html

Or this song by UK band Vagabond: http://xenomania.freehostia.com/songs/vagabond/ivebeenwantingyou.html

Seems no one told them you can't use "want" in a continuous tense


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## Wordsmyth

irinet said:


> _[...] _'want' is a verb not used in the Continuous aspect.


 That's news to me, irinet! Can you tell us the source of that idea?

It's true that the present continuous of 'want' (e.g. "I'm wanting") tends not to be used in BrE and AmE, but it's not unusual in other variants of English (IrE, IndE, maybe others). And other continuous tenses are widely used in all forms of English: "He's been wanting ...", "He'd been wanting", "Will you be wanting ...?"

Ws


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> So, bottom line, the original sentence could be correct. Shock horror
> 
> Since (because) John broke up with Mary two years ago, he wants to marry another girl (i.e. he wants to remarry) (maybe because he feels that one shouldn't remain unmarried for more than two years).
> 
> Therefore, the correct response to the OP should have been that there's nothing wrong with the tenses, it's just that John has a stange outlook on life.
> 
> Or it could be that in this case, since means since, not because, and one of the tenses is indeed wrong, like the OP suspected.
> 
> Either way, we'd have to ask the author to elaborate. Perhaps the OP can do that and feed back.



I am sorry, but I simply disagree that the original sentence is "correct." How can it be since it doesn't make sense? 

OK, I'll give you this much: You can, with some ingenuity, come up with a scenario that makes it possible that it's correct, but is that really what we're supposed to be helping people with here? Finding ways to justify poor sentences? Is writing a sentence this ambiguous a good idea, whether the writer is a native speaker or not?

No. 

By far the most likely explanation for this sentence is that the original writer made an error. We all do it, so I don't see why it's such a problem to simply accept that and move on to figuring out a better way to say...well, whatever it is that this writer is trying to say.

RM1, I've heard _broke up_ used in reference to both marriages and other romantic partnerships. Yours is a valid assumption, but I think my caution is valid as well.


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## Wordsmyth

JustKate said:


> _[...]_ Is writing a sentence this ambiguous a good idea, whether the writer is a native speaker or not?
> 
> No.


 No indeed, Kate. In fact, writing *any* sentence that's ambiguous isn't a good idea!

Ws


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## irinet

"That's news to me, irinet! Can you tell us the source of that idea?


It's true that the present continuous of 'want' (e.g. "I'm wanting") tends not to be used in BrE and AmE, but it's not unusual in other variants of English (IrE, IndE, maybe others). And other continuous tenses are widely used in all forms of English: "He's been wanting ...", "He'd been wanting", "Will you be wanting ...?""

As you said....
I was referring to standard English. I am a non-native speaker and I do not use English variants. However, I have understood your comments.


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## irinet

Dear NeverEnd,
I have learned a basic rule about Continuous aspect and that would refer to verbs not generally used with this aspect, so I do not use 'want' as 'wanting'. Of course, English has many exceptions, but I do not know of applying them to this verb. If this, you and other natives say, is an English variant, I couldn't know of from Oxford or Cambrige grammars.
1. verbs of perception
2. verbs of thinking
3. verbs of feeling
want / wish / desire, etc.

4.verbs indicating states or permanent qualities


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## Never Ever

irinet said:


> As you said....
> I was referring to standard English. I am a non-native speaker and I do not use English variants. However, I have understood your comments.


In standard English, you wouldn't normally use the verb "want" in the present continuous form. However, in spoken BrE it's not unusual to hear expressions such as "are you still wanting this"? instead of "do you still want (to buy) this?"

It is also fine to use other continuous forms, such as the present perfect continuous, for example "I've been wanting to learn Arabic for a long time".


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## Never Ever

JustKate said:


> OK, I'll give you this much: You can, with some ingenuity, come up with a scenario that makes it possible that it's correct, but is that really what we're supposed to be helping people with here? Finding ways to justify poor sentences? Is writing a sentence this ambiguous a good idea, whether the writer is a native speaker or not?


You're assuming that the original sentence is not correct. As did I, and offered an alternative that would make the sentence correct for what I thought the author had in mind (which you didn't like, although I'm still not sure why your guesses have to be better than mine). How do we know what the author meant anyway? Can we read minds as well as speak English?

Bottom line, we have no idea what the author meant, we are simply making assumptions (and you know what they say about assumptions...), but the fact that our assumptions don't agree with the sentence structure we've been presented with, doesn't mean the sentence is poor. 

Without reference, the best answer we could have given is something along these lines: if the author wanted to say X, then the sentence should be this, if he wanted to say Y, then the sentence should be that. Instead we're trying to prove that the author didn't know what he was talking about...

BTW anyone who believes that writing ambiguous sentences is a bad idea should explain this to a poet


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## irinet

I wouldn' t argue on that, NeverEnd. I have seen many things here not related to standard English. But I take them as 'fresh' English.
Thank you,


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## velisarius

Several things are wrong about the original sentence:
1. The "since" should be "ever since" (unless since means because).
2. If "since" means "because", the writer hasn't made that clear and has failed to provide a logical connection between the two parts of the sentence.
3. The second "John" instead of "he" strikes me as very odd.
4. The use of the tenses "broke up" and "wants" is very confusing.

Apart from those four points, the sentence is perfect.


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## Never Ever

You're welcome, irinet. As my students say... if there are so many exceptions to every rule, why do we bother learning the rule in the first place? It's a fair question!


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## irinet

Yes, but we all know that in English there are more exceptions to the rules than rules! I can see now that there are much 'more' than more'!


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## The Godfather

*Ever since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he always wanted to marry another girl*. --with this u cant get to know if John is currently married or not.

If he is not yet married and still wants to marry another girl -- *Ever since John broke up with Mary two years ago, he always wanted to marry another girl and he still wants.*


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## wolfbm1

It has been a very interesting discussion. Let me share what I think. It is very likely that "since" means "because." Then the original sentence means this:

John may have contemplated, wanted or even tried to get back together with Mary after their break up two years ago. No longer. Now he wants to marry another girl.


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## JustKate

Never Ever said:


> You're assuming that the original sentence is not correct. As did I, and offered an alternative that would make the sentence correct for what I thought the author had in mind (which you didn't like, although I'm still not sure why your guesses have to be better than mine). How do we know what the author meant anyway? Can we read minds as well as speak English?
> 
> Bottom line, we have no idea what the author meant, we are simply making assumptions (and you know what they say about assumptions...), but the fact that our assumptions don't agree with the sentence structure we've been presented with, doesn't mean the sentence is poor.
> 
> Without reference, the best answer we could have given is something along these lines: if the author wanted to say X, then the sentence should be this, if he wanted to say Y, then the sentence should be that. Instead we're trying to prove that the author didn't know what he was talking about...



Never Ever, if I gave the impression that I thought my suggestions were "better" than yours, I do apologize. Obviously I think mine are more *likely* because otherwise I wouldn't have brought them up, but your interpretation is also possible and grammatical. I said so more than once, including in my post #39. 

But because of the problems with the original sentence that we all can see, there's no way to determine if your interpretation is right or not, and what I objected to was your easy assumption (or so it seems to me - forgive me if I interpreted you incorrectly) that because the sentence could mean XYZ and that to you it is clear that this is the most likely meaning, it is therefore perfectly fine to assume that it *does* mean XYZ. However, we really can't because the sentence is poorly constructed, and there is therefore no way to determine definitely what it means. You'll notice (in the same post #39) that I also said that there's no way to determine if *my* interpretation is right or not either. I think mine is more likely, but that's no guarantee that I'm right. The sentence is poorly constructed. This is what happens with poorly constructed sentences - their meaning is unclear.

I do agree it would be best if we could offer alternatives instead of criticism, and I think that's been done. But since the OP doesn't know exactly what the intent was here either, that's rather difficult to do. 

But it is an excellent lesson for all of us in the importance of constructing our sentences properly. I will think twice next time I use _since_, I can promise you that.



			
				Velisarius said:
			
		

> Several things are wrong about the original sentence:
> 1. The "since" should be "ever since" (unless since means because).
> 2. If "since" means "because", the writer hasn't made that clear and has failed to provide a logical connection between the two parts of the sentence.
> 3. The second "John" instead of "he" strikes me as very odd.
> 4. The use of the tenses "broke up" and "wants" is very confusing.
> 
> 
> Apart from those four points, the sentence is perfect.



(LOL! Really.)

That is a lovely summary, Velisarius. It's a jewel of a sentence. OK, a somewhat flawed jewel, but still...


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