# Coś w tym jest!



## bg1

Hi friends,
How can we say in English the phrase "Coś w tym jest" ?
An example:
*A*-Ludzie mówią, że umiarkowanie i regularne picie wina czerwonego pomaga sercu, ale osobiście nie wierzę w to.
*B*-Moim zdaniem *coś w tym jest!*
Thanks,
Zang.


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## Oletta

"There's something in it!" ;-)


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## Thomas1

There must be something in it.

PS: may I point out that _czerwonego wina_ sounds better than all the way round? I know it's against the rules, but I'm wondering if it's just me or if anyone else has a similar impression.


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## Oletta

(Yes, _czerwonego wina_ sounds more natural in Polish)

_There's something in it/there must be something in it_ - both are okay (although _there must be something in it_ precisely means: coś musi w tym być" thus I stand for "there's something in it" as the most precise.


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## Marcus Africanus

"Picie czerwonego wina" is right. You can say "picie wina czerwonego" if you will show a difference to other sorts of wine:
Picie wina białego zalecamy w ciepłe wieczory letnie, natomiast wina czerwonego także przy zgniłej aurze. A w wieczory burzowe pij wino różowe.

Is it possible to say for "coś w tym jest": there is something about it?


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## NotNow

The above translations are acceptable, but in this context, the best translation is _There must be something to it._


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## bg1

Dzięki wszystkim za porady, te językowe i te odnośnie picia wina ;-)


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## Oletta

NotNow said:


> The above translations are acceptable, but in this context, the best translation is _There must be something to it._



Haha, can you show the difference between "coś w tym jest" and "coś w tym musi być", then?


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## majlo

Why show the difference? _Coś w tym jest _and _coś w tym musi być _are synonymous, though I'd only use the former. The same goes for English: "There is something to it" and "There must be something about it" are synonymous.


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## Oletta

They are not synonymous - _coś w tym jest - _certainty,_ coś w tym musi być_ - probability.


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## majlo

You clearly have no idea what functions modal verbs carry in English.  I'll give you a hint, though: _must _is a far cry from "probability".


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## Oletta

majlo said:


> You clearly have no idea what functions modal verbs carry in English.  I'll give you a hint, though: _must _is a far cry from "probability".



I wanted to know how to convey the Polish notion of probability, not English, and said that to me the Polish expression meant :  _coś w tym jest - _certainty,_ coś w  tym musi być_ - probability.

PS. Please do not judge me - it's not kind to judge people so easily.


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## majlo

It's the same in Polish and English, unless there's something I don't know about the Polish verb _musieć_.



Oletta said:


> and said that to me the Polish expression mean :  _coś w tym jest - _certainty,_ *coś w  tym musi być*_* - probability*.



Which doesn't change the fact that it's not so.  To me _poszłem _can be also correct, but it doesn't mean that it is.


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## Oletta

Is it the same in Polish? Strange, as when I am 100% sure I say "coś w tym jest", whereas when there's a slight dose of uncertainty, 99% I say "coś w tym musi być".

PS. Isn't it (more) ironic when we say "coś w tym musi być" insead of "coś w tym jest"?


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## majlo

There can be a slight dose of uncertainty, but it can also be 100% certainty (which doesn't obviously mean that you can't be wrong, no matter which you'll go for). In the context of this thread the two _are _synonymous, even though 1% of uncertainty might sneak into the meaning when saying _There must be something to it _rather than _There is something to it._


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## Oletta

OK, majlo. Thank you!


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## elroy

As a speaker of American English, I don't find any of the translations suggested so far accurate.  I would say "I think _there's some truth to that_."


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## Oletta

elroy said:


> I would say "I think _there's some truth to  that_."




Thank you Elroy! I like it very much as it is without "must" which I didn't like that much.


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## bg1

elroy said:


> As a speaker of American English, I don't find any of the translations suggested so far accurate.  I would say "I think _there's some truth to that_."



Thanks, *elroy *


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## BezierCurve

Not sure how correct that sounds for a native, but I think "there is/must be something _to_ it" is also used.


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## Szkot

BezierCurve said:


> Not sure how correct that sounds for a native, but I think "there is/must be something _to_ it" is also used.


 
I have no problem with "there is/must be something _to/in_ it" in any combination.  I prefer Oletta's original suggestion (post 2!).  To me the variants with 'must' make the answer more tentative than I read in the original text.


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## elroy

"There is/must be something _in_ it" - with this meaning - must be British English, as I've never come across it in American English.

There is/must be something _to_ it" I _am _familiar with, but it's probably not what I would have said in this particular context.


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## Oletta

Szkot said:


> I have no problem with "there is/must be something _to/in_  it" in any combination.  I prefer Oletta's original suggestion (post  2!).  To me the variants with 'must' make the answer more tentative than  I read in the original text.





elroy said:


> "There is/must be something _in_ it" - with this meaning - must be British English, as I've never come across it in American English.
> 
> There is/must be something _to_ it" I _am _familiar with, but it's probably not what I would have said in this particular context.



Linguistic habits habits differ not only within one country but also within one region. When I lived in the UK the people I met tended to say "there's something in it" - I picked it up from them, which is natural so I can easily understand Szkot's habit ;-) and his impression. Yes, Elroy, no doubt it sounds British, I appreciate your version, though. It's good to know many other different collocations for any language freak, in normal life it isn't that important. Now as I live in Italy, I encounter far more linguistic options or incongruities than both in Polish and English (the people have different habits even within one town or village, ;-). Thank all of you for the interesting information on "coś w tym jest" - a very interesting subject, "there's some truth to that" ;-)!


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## Thomas1

I find 'must' OK in the translation, because the two Polish expressions are used to express (presumptive) certainity rather, not a fact.
EDIT:


Marcus Africanus said:


> [...]Is it possible to say for "coś w tym jest": there is something about  it?


You may be interested by this.



elroy said:


> As a speaker of American English, I don't find any  of the translations suggested so far accurate.  I would say "I think _there's  some truth to that_."


I find this an accurate translation of: _Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_.


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## elroy

Thomas1 said:


> I find this an accurate translation of: _Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_.


 Isn't that what the Polish expression means, though (at least in this context)?  If not, what do you think is the difference between the two?


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## majlo

They're both synonymous in my opinion. However, I find _Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_. a bit wordy.

Hang on, on second thought...

_Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_. means that the statement statement is only "partly true" (_trochę prawdy_) while _Coś w tym jest. _means, or _might _mean, that the statement may turn out to be "completely true". I wonder what others think about it.


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## Oletta

Thomas1 said:


> I find 'must' OK in the translation, because the two Polish expressions are used to express (presumptive) certainity rather, not a fact.


Yup, but if there are two options both in Polish and English and one is with "must" and the other is without "must",

*coś w tym jest
coś w tym musi być*

vs
*
there's something in/to it
there must be something in/to it

*I am the follower of the one to one translation (_*coś w tym jest=there is something in/to it*_ and *coś w tym musi być=there must be something in/to it*, even if the context sounds synonymous, you may disagree with me, of course. It's just the matter of our individual taste and subtlety. My teacher of translation and a famous translator at the same time convinced me about it.


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## Thomas1

elroy said:


> Isn't that what the Polish expression means, though (at least in this context)?  If not, what do you think is the difference between the two?


I think your translation is acceptable, in this context at least. There are contexts in which it wouldn't make sense, because 'coś w tym jest/musi być' has more than one meaning. You said, however, that the translations given before you posted your reply were not adequate, could you please elaborate? 



majlo said:


> They're both synonymous in my opinion. However, I find _Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_. a bit wordy.
> 
> Hang on, on second thought...
> 
> _Myślę, że jest w tym trochę prawdy_. means that the statement statement is only "partly true" (_trochę prawdy_) while _Coś w tym jest. _means, or _might _mean, that the statement may turn out to be "completely true". I wonder what others think about it.


This is an interesting interpretation, Majlo. Let's see:
*A*-Ludzie mówią, że umiarkowanie i regularne picie wina czerwonego  pomaga sercu, ale osobiście nie wierzę w to.
*B*-Moim zdaniem *coś w tym jest!*
Is _coś _equal to _trochę prawdy_?
'coś (prawdziwego)' and 'trochę prawdy' are a part of 'tym'. 
Given that the size of 'coś' may vary, it can be 90% or it can be 30%, the scope it covers is larger than that of 'trochę prawdy', which to me implies less than 50%. I really don't know whether 'coś' can also mean the whole as you suggest, but I tend to agree that it may mean that there is more certainity that something is true than when you say 'trochę prawdy'. This is how I understand it at least.




Oletta said:


> Yup, but if there are two options both in Polish and English and one is with "must" and the other is without "must",
> 
> *coś w tym jest
> coś w tym musi być*
> 
> vs
> *
> there's something in/to it
> there must be something in/to it
> 
> *I am the follower of the one to one translation (_*coś w tym jest=there is something in/to it*_ and *coś w tym musi być=there must be something in/to it*, even if the context sounds synonymous, you may disagree with me, of course. It's just the matter of our individual taste and subtlety. My teacher of translation and a famous translator at the same time convinced me about it.


I am not sure such a translation method works, Oletta. Would you for instance do the same in the following cases: 
_He must have given up, if he hasn't appeared at the course for three weeks._
_ You must be out of your mind._
_What must they think_ of us in America when they realize that we  permitted the repression and cruelty of Diem which helped to bring them  into being as a resistance group in the south?
I wouldn't.

Here is something I've just found in my dictionary that may be of interest:


> coś w tym jest a. coś w tym musi być there must be something in it;
> Source: PWN-Oxford Polish-English dictionary


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## Oletta

Obviously every case is different, I meant _only_ the possible and reasonable ones. The method works where it is possible. I didn't say it always works as every situation differs. I do appreciate Maria Korusiewicz and her approach to literary and philosophical translation (http://www.galeriafive.pl/?s=10&l=0&a=5). As it comes to _"coś w tym jest"_ it may work or not, depending on your personal interpretation, on your "linguistic sensation", on your linguistic backgrounds etc. To my ears it sounds better without "must". To the reader it might have no difference, though. It's just the matter of our inner feeling and satisfaction as well as some sort of "thoroughness".


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## Ben Jamin

Oletta said:


> Is it the same in Polish? Strange, as when I am 100% sure I say "coś w tym jest", whereas when there's a slight dose of uncertainty, 99% I say "coś w tym musi być".
> 
> PS. Isn't it (more) ironic when we say "coś w tym musi być" insead of "coś w tym jest"?


 Both expressions convey a lot of uncertainty! The word *coś* is the key word of uncertainty. If you were certain, you would define exactly what this *coś* is.


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