# Swedish: Pronunciation:  long i sound



## Hjoi

I have listened to a lot of native speakers of Swedish, particularly people with a Stockholm accent. This accent has a name I have now forgotten.

This Stockholm accent has a long i that sounds nothing like what is heard  in English. I can only describe it as being augmented to the rest of the pronunciation. It is very distinctive.

Listen to 4:52 in this video.

How on Earth is she pronouncing that sound?






Thanks.


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## eimieole

The woman uses an allophone of the long i-sound, which is getting more common among young people in the area in and around Stockholm. The standard pronunciation is like English ee. Didn't listen to all the video ; hopefully the rest is standard.


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## cocuyo

This allophonic pronunciation is very common, and I have heard it also as a kid almost seventy years ago. I too have it, although it is not always pronounced like that, more in certain combinations, as in the word _"mil"_, where also people with other dialects usually pronounce like that. There are a few quirks in the video, which stem from the woman speaking English and then trying to change to Swedish pronunciation of a few words and letters. She also has a rather odd pronunciation when she introduces the vowel _ö_, which can be pronounced like that in the Stockholm dialect, although it is uncommon nowadays. Most of the sounds she pronounces are a bit coloured by her English pronunciation, which is very evident in the first introduction of letter A, where she does not use the more evident BE pronunciation of R as explanation. The first A that she introduces is exactly the same sound as BE pronunciation of R, but consistently, she pronounces the r letter in all English words. 

She also delves a bit into the difference between Ä and E, saying they are very similar, and pronouncing the Ä sound in a rather uncommon way, as the Stockholm dialect mostly has them exactly the same. I would think she is not from Stockholm. 

In the suburb where I live, Lidingö. and also in the part of Stockholm closest, Östermalm, the long i sound is even more tinged by that allophonic pronunciation, almost as if there was a j following the i. This pronunciation is frowned upon in most of the country, so you need not try to learn it. Funnily, in the far west, in Bohuslän, there are similar pronunciations, even more accentuated with a fricative sound that is very difficult to imitate. None of these pronunciations should be regarded as "standard" in Swedish. (including the i sound you ask about)


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## AutumnOwl

cocuyo said:


> She also delves a bit into the difference between Ä and E, saying they are very similar, and pronouncing the Ä sound in a rather uncommon way, as the Stockholm dialect mostly has them exactly the same. I would think she is not from Stockholm.


That reminds me about the joke about a Stockholmer in Feskekôrka in Göteborg buying shrimps: _rekor - räkor, man eter (man äter) - maneter_

It would have been interesting to hear her say _bi_ (bee), as the i-sound there easily gets to sound like <ij>, at least if having grown up in Bohuslän.


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## cocuyo

- Har ni reker? 
- Reker? 
- Ja, såna som man eter. 
- Nej, maneter har vi inte. 

Räkor uttalas alltså ofta "reker" i stockholmska, och äter blir eter. Jag är uppvuxen i Stockholm, söderförort, Svedmyra, och mina morföräldrar var också stockholmare sedan flera generationer. 

Men jag själv säger faktiskt räkor och uttalar ä annorlunda än e, både kort och långt. När jag var ung, för drygt femtio år sedan, var mitt uttal konsekvent e för både ä och e.


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## eimieole

I watched the whole video and thought it was rather good, after all. I've never had an ear for dialects, though, so to me she sounds like a 25-30 years old woman in the Stockholm area. The difference between e and ä wasn't really obvious, which was a bit of a surprise since I've heard many young persons in Stockholm beginning to open the ä-sound to almost an a.


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## Tjahzi

The reason this sound, which is indeed rather standard, causes so much confusion is the incorrect labeling of English /ee/ as "(completely) fronted". As such, English speakers don't recognize the fact that Swedish /i/ is being pronounced further ahead in the mouth, was is the case. 

I remember this subject being discussed in the past, but was unable to find the thread. :/


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## Tjahzi

Actually, here is it.


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## cocuyo

I think that anyone learning Swedish will not have to try imitating the allophonic sound. It slides toward a fricative sound somewhat similar to j, much akin to the Dutch pronounciation of _"mij"_ but many speakers don't pronounce like that, but rather a cleaner vocal sound, however a tiny bit different form how "ee" is pronounced by many English speakers. The fricative is perhaps more audible when the long i preceeds d, as in "tid". Compare Dutch "tijd".


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## mexerica feliz

This pronunciation is called *Lidingö- i *or *Viby-i* and is labeled in IPA as: [ ɨ]  (or with a buzz: [ɨz] (z in superscript) but phonetically it's [ ɨ] with vocal fry, that is, strong laryngealization).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_central_unrounded_vowel
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluten_central_orundad_vokal

/i/ pronounced like this (as [ ɨ]) can be heard anywhere is Sweden, but it's less used
1. in Norrland
2. by men across Sweden (so we may call it a ''feminizing Svea/Göta pseudoposh-variety'').


''
Vi har demonstrerat vokalformantdata som tyder på att Viby-i representerar
en vokaltyp - hög orundad central, d.v.s. /ɨ/ - som är tämligen frekvent
förekommande i jordens språk. Modellsimuleringar med Apex pekar i
samma riktning och visar dessutom att de karakteristiska
formantfrekvenserna är förenliga med en apikal komponent
(tungspetshöjning). Det är sannolikt att jordens /ɨ/-språk varierar
kontinuerligt längs denna dimension. Det förefaller också sannolikt att
Viby-i, snarare än att vara en udda specialitet för de svenska dialekterna,
har gott om typologiska släktingar i jordens språk, de flesta betecknade med
symbolen /ɨ  /. Om vokaltypen dyker upp här och var i jordens språk är det
rimligt att den också gör det i de svenska dialekterna. Det empiriska
material som ligger till grund för denna studie är dock begränsat och
slutsatserna måste därför betraktas som tentativa.
''

*Hur udda är Viby-i? - Lund University Publications*

a very common realization of long i on Swedish Tv is this Viby/Lidingö-i plus a buzz: it's
[ ɨ:] with vocal fry / creaky voice / laryngealization, it sounds as if your throat had been stung by a bee while pronouncing a central, Turkish-like *ı*, this would be [ ɨ̰:] in IPA. 
(on top of this it can be diphthongized, like all (long) Swedish vowels can: [ ɨ̰:j]).

So, for words like *vi*, *bi* etc. we can get these pronunciations:
1)  [vi:]  (original non-diphthongized, the one also find in Norwegian)
2)  [vi:j]  (diphthongized)
3) [vɨ:] (central/damped, non-diphthongized)
4) [vɨ:j] (central/damped, diphthongized)
5) [vɨ̰:] (central/damped, non-diphthongized, with laryngealization)
6) [vɨ̰:j] (central/damped, diphthongized, with laryngealization)

The same phenomena (centering/damping + laryngealization + diphthongization) can happen to *y*, this is called Lidingö/Viby y.

Further reading:

SWEDISH ‘DAMPED’ /i/ AND /y/: EXPERIMENTAL AND TYPOLOGICAL
OBSERVATIONS by  Sven Björsten and Olle Engstrand (at Stockholm University)

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.444.4554&rep=rep1&type=pdf

PS
There is not only a dialectal/sociolectal factor but also a poshness factor that comes into play. Some people who lived in a pure [i:] region may abrace the [ ɨ̰: ( j ) ] pronunciation later in life (either deliberately or unconsciously) just to show they moved from the middle class into an upper class,  Martin Åslund comes to mind. This is to show that not even men are immune to ''poshness'' factors in speech.

This whole thing of shifting of long I and long Y in Swedish made them sound more similar,
the difference is nowhere as distant (and thus _easier for foreigners to hear_) as in Norwegian.


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## Tjahzi

Ehm, no. The vowel discussed in this thread is not the "Lidingö-i".


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## mexerica feliz

Lidingö/Viby-i is so omnipresent on SVT and TV3 newscasts it could be called a new ''standard'' Swedish /i/.
For most people who have it, it's the normal way of pronouncing /i/, and they fail to hear the difference with the ''older'' mainstream /i/,
which makes it very funny when they start pronouncing English words with this i. Not only ''bimbosarna'' uses it, but it's spreading like rapid fire,
all across Western, Central and Eastern Sweden, no wonder, it was used in many dialects, and it has origin in various geographical points,
this makes it ''omniswedish''.


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## cocuyo

Actually, the i pronunciation in Swedish is different in different dialects and also depending on adjoining consonants. The fricative sound is more prominent in conjunction with a fricative consonant, although it may be present also when the i stands alone. I remember that it was heckled in the school at Östermalm when I was about twelve years old in the fifties, mostly with the phrase: "Gå på Tevi och käka biskvi." 

The most extreme form can also be heard here in Lidingö, as well as in Bohuslän, I have heard it in Orust, where the sound of the i is just a buzz, the toning zed consonant. Tip of tongue between front teeth and the airstream articulated between tongue and palate just behind front teeth. 

But the i sound is a continuum between a clean "ee" and this "buzz". Anything in between goes, and it is also possible to round it of with the j sound.


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## AutumnOwl

Here you can hear some Orust dialects: http://swedia.ling.gu.se/Gotaland/Bohuslan/Orust/index.html


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## merryweather

I would love to have a simple answer to this question, too!


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## Göte

merryweather said:


> I would love to have a simple answer to this question, too!



Make the English ee-sound, and move the tongue further to the front and up without constricting too much, which would create a /j/.


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## Tjahzi

Göte indeed summed it up well.


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## merryweather

Göte said:


> Make the English ee-sound, and move the tongue further to the front and up without constricting too much, which would create a /j/.



OK, I'll try that! But it even sounds to me like the sound appears in a different place (if that is possible). But I know exactly what hjoi means; to English ears this sound is very strange and sounds rather "strangulated", but I guess that is because of the high position of the tongue that is so foreign to us Brits.

That said, I have heard plenty of Swedes speaking Swedish who _didn't _use this strangulated "i" sound.

I guess it wouldn't be a tragedy if I never mastered it, would it?


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## cocuyo

There will never be a problem if you don't get that sound, and any ee sound you do is perfect. No problem at all. The difficulties in Swedish are quite different from that, and it is mainly the melody, the intonation, that will be super hard to learn - most people cannot learn that unless they learn from a very young age.


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