# viel bemüht[en]



## oostnic

Hello,
 
I am stuck on how to translate"bemüht" in the following context:
 
"So können wir unser Budget gezielter nutzen und den viel bemühten ROI signifikant steigern"
 
Does it mean that the ROI (return on income) is not doing too well at present/struggling? My only understanding of "bemühen" is as "sich bemühen" - to try/strive/endeavour. My translation is currently as follows:
 
"This will enable us to use our budget more effectively and to increase our [??] ROI significantly"
 
Thanks for any help


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## Thomas W.

a "viel bemühter" term is a (too) much-used term


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## ablativ

Can you say in English "to overstrain an expression (ROI)"?


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## Frank78

It means something like "the often used ROI".

I'm not an expert and not sure if this "ROI" can be used.


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## oostnic

Hmm. I see what you mean by too-much used. I'm not sure how that works here though. Does it mean that ROI is an indicator that is often looked at and maybe therefore over-hyped? 

No, you can't say "to overstrain and expression (ROI)". My inclination is to say "the somewhat over-hyped/hackneyed ROI" but i am worried this sounds too negative.


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## oostnic

Thanks Frank78 - our messages crossed! I think "often used" is less negative here than "too-much used". Unless I can think of a better alternative I'll go wth that


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## Frank78

It's not negatively per se in German. It can be a useful, well-known device.


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## Thomas W.

In the text cited by you, I would probably not translate it at all. There, it is basically a filler term and doesn't mean anything. 
(I assume, the text comes from a speech. Some people, when lost for words, or wanting to pad or draw out their speech a little, use it in this way. You will hardly find it used in this way in a written report, though)


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## samloyd

"viel bemüht" ~ frequently quoted (?, at least, a possible meaning)
To me, the use of "viel bemüht" has some tiny implicit criticism as an ingredience. More neutral would be "viel zitiert" or "häufig herangezogen". The word "bemüht" contains "Mühe" - trouble, effort, strain... To me, choosing this expression will say that some term is overused just by fashion, and also dragged into places where it makes little sense.


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## oostnic

Thanks for all the helpful comments, which have given me at least an understanding of what the term means. I think, on reflexion, I might take THomas W's advice and simply not translate it at all in this sentence, as it does appear to be a filler term and I am worried that translating it will give added (probably negative) connotations in English that aren't there in the German.


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## ABBA Stanza

oostnic said:


> Does it mean that the ROI (return on income) is not doing too well at present/struggling? My only understanding of "bemühen" is as "sich bemühen" - to try/strive/endeavour. My translation is currently as follows:
> 
> "This will enable us to use our budget more effectively and to increase our [??] ROI significantly"


Hi oostnic, I think you were actually not far off the mark when you mentioned the word "strive", as that's exactly the word I would use in this context:

_"This will enable us to use our budget more effectively and to increase our much strived-for ROI significantly"_

The verb "bemühen" is clearly not being used reflexively here because it's not the ROI itself that's doing the striving. By the way, doesn't ROI mean "return on investment"?

Furthermore, I can't understand why the natives here are jumping on the "overstrained"/"overused" bandwagon. This interpretation doesn't seem to fit the context at all, in my humble opinion. Incidentally, I wasn't aware of this meaning of the word, and cannot find it in any dictionary so far, so if anyone can point to this definition somewhere on the web, I'd be most interested and grateful. 

All the best,
Abba


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## Frank78

ABBA Stanza said:


> Hi oostnic, I think you were actually not far off the mark when you mentioned the word "strive", as that's exactly the word I would use in this context:
> 
> _"This will enable us to use our budget more effectively and to increase our much strived-for ROI significantly"_



Doesn't the word "strive" imply competition? Since it's not that case in German.

For example:
"Werbung wird oft bemüht, um ein Produkt besser zu verkaufen."
Ich bemühe mich oft offentlicher Verkehrmittel, weil ich keine Lust habe im Stau zu stehen." (lofty style)


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## Demiurg

"ROI" (return on investments) is a kind of buzzword, now often used by German managers (instead of "Kapitalrendite") to sound "international". 

The translation "overstrained"/"overused"  is right in my opinion.

Another example (source):



> Crowdsourcing ist ein derzeit oft bemühter Begriff. Doch was steckt eigentlich genau dahinter?


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## berndf

ABBA Stanza said:


> The verb "bemühen" is clearly not being used reflexively here because it's not the ROI itself that's doing the striving.


I am afraid, this interpretation is not quite right. The sentence contains a figurative use of_ jemanden bemühen_ (with _Objekt der Person_) meaning _to burden some one with a effort_; example:
_Kann ich sie bemühen, mir eine Frage zu beantworten? = May I burden you with the effort to answer me a question?
_Figuratively applied to a notion, concept or expression, this means that it is often thought about, talked about or used in arguments. In this case it obviously means _... the ROI which is an often cited objective_ or simply _the ubiquitous ROI_. I leave it to you as a native speaker find an elegant English way of expressing this.


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## dec-sev

Demiurg said:


> "ROI" (return on investments) is a kind of buzzword, now often used by German managers (instead of "Kapitalrendite") to sound "international".
> 
> The translation "overstrained"/"overused"  is right in my opinion.


 How an _idicator _can be overstrained or overused?
Imaging a president having a low raiting. He hires a PR team in order to improve the situation. They gather to develop a strategy. One of the PRfuzzis  suggests that the country should go into war with Mongolia and says: "This will enable us to detract peoples' attention from the problems the country faces and  increase the much strived-for rating significantly". 
Kann ich nicht sein, dass in unserem Kontext es um mehr oder weniger Dasselbe geht. Ich meine, das ist nicht der Signifikant selbst, sondern Leute, diejenige, die sich sich bemühen, un den zu steigern? Oder ich bin auf dem Holzweg?


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## Demiurg

Noch einmal zum Originalsatz:



> So können wir unser Budget gezielter nutzen und den viel bemühten ROI signifikant steigern.



Wir haben hier zwei Aussagen:
(1) So können wir unser Budget gezielter nutzen und den ROI signifikant steigern.
(2) "ROI" ist viel bemühter Begriff.

Die Bedeutung von (2) ist: der Begriff "ROI" wird (zu) viel verwendet (overused), wird überstrapaziert (overstrained), ist ein Modewort (buzzword).


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## Thomas W.

@ABBA Stanza, and
@dev-sec:

As convincing your reasoning for connecting "viel bemüht" with "much strived -for" is, in reality, languages don't always follow logic.
And in German, "viel bemüht" is a fixed term and has nothing to do with "much strived-for", even if one of the meanings of the reflexive verb "sich bemühen" is "strive".


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## ABBA Stanza

Thanks for your responses, Frank, Demi, Bernd and Thomas.  I enjoyed reading your posts and have already learned quite a bit from them.

Nevertheless, there still remain a few things I'd like to mention: 



Frank78 said:


> Doesn't the word "strive" imply competition?


No, although there could of course be competition involved.



Demiurg said:


> "ROI" (return on investments) is a kind of buzzword, now often used by German managers (instead of "Kapitalrendite") to sound "international".
> 
> The translation "overstrained"/"overused"  is right in my opinion.


This is one of the two things I can't understand. It's difficult for me to imagine any manager worth his salt not taking ROI seriously and formally referring to it as a overstrained or overused  (not to mention "hackneyed" ) concept. I can therefore well understand why oostnic is reluctant to take the risk of translating it that way.



berndf said:


> I am afraid, this interpretation is not quite right.


I half expected that as soon as I wrote the word "clearly"... 



Demiurg said:


> Wir haben hier zwei Aussagen:
> (1) So können wir unser Budget gezielter nutzen und den ROI signifikant steigern.
> (2) "ROI" ist viel bemühter Begriff.
> 
> Die Bedeutung von (2) ist: der Begriff "ROI" wird (zu) viel verwendet (overused), wird überstrapaziert (overstrained), ist ein Modewort (buzzword).


I agree with you on (1), but as far as (2) is concerned, where is the word "Begriff" in the original sentence? According to original quote, it's the ROI itself that is "bemüht", not the term "ROI".

The question is (and I think this is what dec-sev was also asking), how can a return on investment be burdoned (to use berndf's example), overstrained or overused? (By the way, this is the second thing I can't understand.)



Thomas W. said:


> And in German, "viel bemüht" is a fixed term and has nothing to do with "much strived-for" (...)


If it's a fixed expression, then why did you say (above) that it "doesn't mean anything"? 

Cheers,
Abba


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## ablativ

ABBA Stanza said:


> ... , but as far as (2) is concerned, where is the word "Begriff" in the original sentence? According to original quote, it's the ROI itself that is "bemüht", not the term "ROI".
> 
> The question is (and I think this is what dec-sev was also asking), how can a return on investment be burdoned (to use berndf's example), overstrained or overused? (By the way, this is the second thing I can't understand.)



In my opinion it is not necessary to use the word "Begriff" in this sentence, as every native German speaker easily understands what is meant by the saying "viel bemüht" in this context. It means that we are dealing with an abbreviation that is "überstrapaziert" like the term "BSP".

It is insofar needless to use "Begriff" as an abstract term cannot  be (per definitionem) "bemüht" in any way. It's the managers that are "bemüht" to increase the ROI. Therefore it cannot come to any misunderstandings about "den viel bemühten ROI".


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## berndf

ABBA Stanza said:


> According to original quote, it's the ROI itself that is "bemüht", not the term "ROI".


Demiurg didn't say that. He said "Begriff" which means "concept" and not "term" (="Ausdruck").

EDIT: See here.


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## ABBA Stanza

ablativ said:


> In my opinion it is not necessary to use the word "Begriff" in this sentence, as every native German speaker easily understands what is meant by the saying "viel bemüht" in this context. It means that we are dealing with an abbreviation that is "überstrapaziert" like the term "BSP".
> 
> It is insofar needless to use "Begriff" as an abstract term cannot  be (per definitionem) "bemüht" in any way. It's the managers that are "bemüht" to increase the ROI. Therefore it cannot come to any misunderstandings about "den viel bemühten ROI".^


Thanks for the explanation, ablativ. 

I realize now that it really is a fixed expression, to which the word "viel" also belongs, and which effectively blocks any other possible interpretation. But why not bother translating it into English, as Thomas suggested? Could it be that the expression "viel bemüht" is itself "viel bemüht"? 

By the way, whilst searching on the web, I found this discussion, which may also prove to be useful.

Cheers,
Abba


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## Thomas W.

ABBA Stanza said:


> ...
> But why not bother translating it into English, as Thomas suggested? ...



I said that "viel bemüht" means " (too) much-used". A better understandable translation would be:
"much used, perhaps too much", with also implies "perhaps not too much"

In the sentence given by the original poster, it seems clear to me, that the orator did not want to discuss the use of the word "ROI", but used "viel bemüht" as a filler term - which is often done in speeches. 
Here, it has a similar function as expressions like "..the, as they say, ROI ..". One should not overanalyze such expressions or try to find deeper meaning in them.


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## ABBA Stanza

Hi guys, 

I thought I understood everything, until I found this article on the web:



> *Heidi Klums bemühtes Lächeln*
> 
> Heidi Klum wirkt zunehmend erschöpft. Ihre Professionalität kann den Stress nur mühsam übertünchen. Das Strahlen scheint verflogen. Nimmt sich die 37-Jährige zu viel vor?


Here we have a instance of the adjective "bemüht" that is not preceded by the word "viel". I don't know how you natives interpret this, but assume that it means that (due to too much stress), smiles don't come so easily to Heidi any more, and that she has to go to some effort to produce them.

In the same way, I originally interpreted the phrase "bemühtes ROI" as being a return on investment that the company has to go to some effort to reach. I thought that the word "viel" was simply a qualifier, implying that the company has to go to a lot of effort to reach the ROI goals. That is why I chose the word "strive", which seemed to fit the context quite well. Let's call this interpretation "interpretation A".

Since then, I've learned that "viel bemüht" is a set phrase meaning "overstrained" or "overused". I don't doubt this, even though I am still having difficulty imagining a company spokesman (or woman) officially referring to such an important criterion as ROI in this negative way. But, anyway, let's call this interpretation "interpretation B".

My questions to the natives* on this forum are as follows:

(1) How do you know here that interpretation B is the correct one, and not interpretation A?

(2) Would the interpretation of the cited article heading ("Heidi Klums bemühtes Lächeln") be changed completely if one were to insert the word "viel" immediately before "bemüht"?

Cheers,
Abba

* or anyone else who wants to join in.


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## Thomas W.

ABBA Stanza said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I thought I understood everything, until I found this article on the web:
> 
> 
> Here we have a instance of the adjective "bemüht" that is not preceded by the word "viel". I don't know how you natives interpret this, but assume that it means that (due to too much stress), smiles don't come so easily to Heidi any more, and that she has to go to some effort to produce them.



It means "forced smile"



ABBA Stanza said:


> In the same way, I originally interpreted the phrase "bemühtes ROI" as being a return on investment that the company has to go to some effort to reach. I thought that the word "viel" was simply a qualifier, implying that the company has to go to a lot of effort to reach the ROI goals. That is why I chose the word "strive", which seemed to fit the context quite well. Let's call this interpretation "interpretation A".



I thought we had finally put an end to that notion. Forget interpretation A.



ABBA Stanza said:


> Since then, I've learned that "viel bemüht" is a set phrase meaning "overstrained" or "overused".



Not necessarily. See above.



ABBA Stanza said:


> I don't doubt this, even though I am still having difficulty imagining a company spokesman (or woman) officially referring to such an important criterion as ROI in this negative way. ...



See previous post. Hint: filler expression, similar to "the, as they say, ROI" ...




ABBA Stanza said:


> My questions to the natives* on this forum are as follows:
> 
> (1) How do you know here that interpretation B is the correct one, and not interpretation A?



Because "viel" makes no sense when put before "bemüht", except when used as said fixed expression.
If you want to put a quantifier before "bemüht" you would have to use "sehr".



ABBA Stanza said:


> (2) Would the interpretation of the cited article heading ("Heidi Klums bemühtes Lächeln") be changed completely if one were to insert the word "viel" immediately before "bemüht"?



Yes. It would make no sense whatsoever.


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## ablativ

ABBA Stanza said:


> (2) Would the interpretation of the cited article heading ("Heidi Klums bemühtes Lächeln") be changed completely if one were to insert the word "viel" immediately before "bemüht"?



Actually you gave the answer yourself (#2).

She smiles, even though she is not in the mood for smiling, but she has to, since there are some photopraphers around. 

"Viel bemüht" would fit in the same sense as it did in the ROI thread.

Heidi's smiling may be "sehr" bemüht, or "wahnsinnig/enorm/übermäßig/besonders/auffällig /recht, etc." bemüht, many qualifiers would suit the context, with the exception of "viel". That "viel" turns the story in quite a different direction (see ROI).

Edit: Crossed with Thomas


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## dec-sev

ABBA Stanza said:


> Since then, I've learned that "viel bemüht" is a set phrase meaning "overstrained" or "overused". I don't doubt this, even though I am still having difficulty imagining a company spokesman (or woman) officially referring to such an important criterion as ROI in this negative way. But, anyway, let's call this interpretation "interpretation B".


 You're writing this for the second time and I wonder why nobody has reacted (unless I overlooked something). Berndf wrote "ubiquitous ROI". I looked the word up in my dicionary and found out that it can roughly be translated "too much used (sometimes when it not necessary)". In other words the word is often used in a negative way. I thought about a situation the phrase can be used:
Peter is an economist responsible for the budget. He has been engaged in the task for a while and he is often reminded about ROI "Peter, don't forget about ROI", says his boss. "Have you found out how we can raise ROI?", asks his colleague. Peter is sick and tired of this viel bebemühten ROI. Finaly the day comes when he is to submit his budget proposals. Everybody has gathered to listen to his report, he was given a word, he is about to speak when he is reminded about ROI once again. It's the last drop. He says: "OK, guys. I've found out the something. This will enable us to use our budget more effectively and to increase this overstrained / overused ROI significantly".

@ABBA: You say "overused" and "overstraind" are used in a negative ways.  Do I understand it correctly that it should be a reason to use them, like in my example? I mean the person is fed up with constant reminders and using "overstrained ROI" he acuatally says: "You've bored me to death, but I've done my job. Now we will be able to increase the fucking ROI".

If I'm right one can't translate "viel bemüht" with "overused" or"overstraind" as the German expression seems not to have any negative connotations, just a filling word. But if it does have, why a manager would use it indeed?


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## berndf

ABBA Stanza said:


> I thought I understood everything, until I found this article on the web: _[Heidi Klums bemühtes lächeln]_


Others already explained the meaning of _bemüht _in this context. You might be interested to understand the connection between the two uses: There is a passive use of _jemanden bemühen_: _bemüht sein _(literally: _to be burdened with the effort_; historically: _to be tired [by some one]_; _to be disturbed__ [by some one]_) which is a verb in its own right meaning _to make a tiring effort_ or _to be tiringly busy [with something]_.

So, saying she makes a _bemühtes Lächeln_ means that she has to make an effort to smile and that it is obviously tiring for her.


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## ABBA Stanza

Hi dec-sev,



dec-sev said:


> Berndf wrote "ubiquitous ROI". I looked the word up in my dicionary and found out that it can roughly be translated "too much used (sometimes when it not necessary)".


The basic meaning of "ubiquitous" is "found everywhere". For example, iPhones are ubiquitous. I suppose "everywhere" is relative, so "our ubiquitous ROI" could indeed make sense if the speaker intended "ubiquitous" to mean, say, "everywhere _within our company_".



dec-sev said:


> @ABBA: You say "overused" and "overstraind" are used in a negative ways.  Do I understand it correctly that it should be a reason to use them, like in my example? I mean the person is fed up with constant reminders and using "overstrained ROI" he acuatally says: "You've bored me to death, but I've done my job. Now we will be able to increase the fucking ROI".


I mentioned "overused" and "overstrained" because these were the translations suggested near the start of the thread. Neither of them (particularly the second one) are, however, idiomatic in this context. Both words have a negative touch because of the "over" prefix.



dec-sev said:


> If I'm right one can't translate "viel bemüht" with "overused" or"overstraind" as the German expression seems not to have any negative connotations, just a filling word.


From the above replies, I think we can safely say that you are right. 

Cheers,
Abba


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