# Compound Preposition



## Flaminius

A recent comment by elroy has prompted me to post a long standing question.  How do they say, "from under the table" in Hebrew?  I understand "under the table" is "mi-tachat le-shulchan":
מתחת לשולחן

How do they modify this prepositional phrase when they want to say something like, "He jumpt out from under the table"?  More generally, how does Hebrew modify a compound preposition of locative to signify the place where the movement originates, terminates or transits?

Is it ממתחת לשולחן or the original phrase will do without modification?

Toda me-ro'sh,
Flam


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## pachyderm

As far as my judgment goes, קפץ מתחת לשולחן can mean both
Jumped under the table
and
Jumped from under the table
Though without context this phrase will almost certainly be understood with the first meaning. 

ממתחת is definitely unacceptable.

(Umm, in written Hebrew, that is. Spoken Hebrew allows everything)


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## amikama

pachyderm said:
			
		

> As far as my judgment goes, קפץ מתחת לשולחן can mean both
> Jumped under the table
> and
> Jumped from under the table
> Though without context this phrase will almost certainly be understood with the first meaning.


Yes, קפץ מתחת לשולחן might be ambiguous. But if you say:
קפץ תחת השולחן (sounds somewhat old-fashioned),
this means ONLY "he jumped under the table", not "he jumped from under the table".
On the other hand, if you add a word to the original sentence and say, for example:
קפץ *החוצה* מתחת לשולחן,
this can mean only "he jumped [outward] from under the table".



> ממתחת is definitely unacceptable.


Because מתחת was originally a composition of two prepositions - מן תחת (from under), and with the ages became a preposition of its own. ממתחת would then mean מן מן תחת (from from under), what would sound very ridiculous.
Similar thing happened to the word מזמן (long ago), which was originally מן זמן (from time). But later it became an independent word, and people began to say ממזמן to mean "since long ago". ממזמן, just as ממתחת, is obviously incorrect.


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## JAN SHAR

So, would you similarly use a compound preposition for something like "from above"? Like מעל, which is combined from מ (from) and על (above)? Does such a word (מעל) exist?


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## Ali Smith

JAN SHAR said:


> So, would you similarly use a compound preposition for something like "from above"? Like מעל, which is combined from מ (from) and על (above)? Does such a word (מעל) exist?


Yes.

וַתְּמַהֵ֗ר וַתּ֤וֹרֶד כַּדָּהּ֙ מֵֽעָלֶ֔יהָ וַתֹּ֣אמֶר שְׁתֵ֔ה וְגַם־גְּמַלֶּ֖יךָ אַשְׁקֶ֑ה וָאֵ֕שְׁתְּ וְגַ֥ם הַגְּמַלִּ֖ים הִשְׁקָֽתָה׃
(בראשית כד מו)

And she quickly brought her pitcher down from on top of herself and said, “Drink and also give water to your camels.” and then I drank and I also watered the camels.


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## JAN SHAR

Thanks. So, I guess she was carrying the pitcher on her head. In that case מעליה would make perfect sense.


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## Ali Smith

Here are two more examples:

לפני
מתחת

Unlike מעל, both of these are composed of a preposition followed by a noun.


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## Drink

פני on its own is not a preposition.


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## Ali Smith

That's exactly what I said!


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## Drink

תחת is a preposition though.


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## Ali Smith

What about בְּתוֹךְ 'in the middle of'? Is the second part, תָּוֶךְ 'middle', a noun? It seems to be, because it sounds just like מָוֶת 'death'.


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## Drink

It is a noun, but it is also a preposition on its own.

But preposition+noun is not really interesting. Such things are logical and common. Look at the English phrase "in the middle of" for example: "middle" is your noun there.


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