# Brunete



## asm

Is the term Brunete only for women or is it also for men? Even my students (in Kentucky) did not agree on this.


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## Edwin

asm said:
			
		

> Is the term Brunete only for women or is it also for men? Even my students (in Kentucky) did not agree on this.



The word apparently is *brunet* or *brunette* (not brunete) according to my dictionary.  In my opinion it can be used for males or females.  In fact, Google gives several hits for ''he is a brunet''.   But I think it probably more common to say of a male that he has brown hair rather than he is brunet.


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## zebedee

Etymologically it's _brunet _ for men and _brunette_ for women. But I've never seen and rarely heard _brunet_ used for men. I agree that it's more typical to use _brown-haired_ for a man.

I think it's because there's no difference in pronunciation between the "et/ette" endings and it's an ending that's also used in many cases to feminise masculine words.

Though the only example I can come up with now is 
He's a lad. (Brit. colloquial to describe loud, boisterous behaviour)
She's a ladette.

Can anyone else think of any more examples to back up my tentative homemade theory?  Or any other theories out there?


zeb


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## asm

asm said:
			
		

> Is the term Brunete only for women or is it also for men? Even my students (in Kentucky) did not agree on this.



Thank you for your help. Some students said that brunette is used only for women. When I complained about the discrimination one female student say that it is fair to have at least one "reverse" discriminate word comparing to the many words we men discriminate against women. Interesting point.

Thank you again,

ASM


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## lauranazario

Transfering this thread to the English-Only forum.
LN


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## te gato

asm said:
			
		

> Is the term Brunete only for women or is it also for men? Even my students (in Kentucky) did not agree on this.


 
Hey asm;
Guess what...When used as a noun...'Brunette' is for women only..and does not just define the haircolor...
*Brunette*
adj..Having dark or brown hair.
noun..A girl or woman with dark or brown hair.
source:The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language 
*brunette*
adj : marked by dark or relatively dark pigmentation of hair or skin or eyes; "a brunette beauty" 
source: WordNet..2003 Princeton University  

te gato


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## mjscott

Zeb says,

Though the only example I can come up with now is 
He's a lad. (Brit. colloquial to describe loud, boisterous behaviour)
She's a ladette.

_I've not ever heard of a ladette. Do they use it on that side of the pond? I'm familiar with lassie--but, then again, Washington State is pretty far from the Mother Tongue...._


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> Zeb says,
> 
> Though the only example I can come up with now is
> He's a lad. (Brit. colloquial to describe loud, boisterous behaviour)
> She's a ladette.
> 
> _I've not ever heard of a ladette. Do they use it on that side of the pond? I'm familiar with lassie--but, then again, Washington State is pretty far from the Mother Tongue...._


Hey mjscott;

I have not heard of it either...lad/lassie yes...
OOps...I'm back...found a tid bit of information...


lad·ette  (_plural_ lad·ettes)

noun U.K. *boisterous, heavy-drinking young woman: *a young woman with a lifestyle that is more stereotypical of that of some young men, usually involving heavy drinking and boisterous behavior ( informal ) 
source: Encarta World English Dictionary

te gato


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## gaer

mjscott said:
			
		

> Zeb says,
> 
> Though the only example I can come up with now is
> He's a lad. (Brit. colloquial to describe loud, boisterous behaviour)
> She's a ladette.
> 
> _I've not ever heard of a ladette. Do they use it on that side of the pond? I'm familiar with lassie--but, then again, Washington State is pretty far from the Mother Tongue...._


Hmm. I wondered how this got in the thread about "brunette" 

I never heard of "ladette".

Gaer


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## zebedee

gaer said:
			
		

> Hmm. I wondered how this got in the thread about "brunette"
> 
> I never heard of "ladette".
> 
> Gaer



Well, yes, as I said:



			
				zebedee said:
			
		

> Though the only example I can come up with now is
> He's a lad. (*Brit. colloquial   * to describe loud, boisterous behaviour)
> She's a ladette.


 
It is very much a British colloquial term, the meaning is exactly what Te Gato found. 
I was actually trying to find examples of how -ette is added to make a masculine thing feminine. 
I'm sure there are more examples from both sides of the pond! Can anyone think of any?
_Star - starlette _ maybe? Though star can be masculine or feminine...

Hmm... I'll keep thinking...

zeb


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## cuchuflete

Hi Zeb,

Some years ago, when one of my sons, then about 11 or 12 years old, started referring to people as 'dudes', I asked him if girls were also dudes.  He replied, with a picaresque smile, that they were dudettes!

Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

There are alternate spellings available:

"Dude and dudete problems
What does one do when a girl or guy you think is great slips through our fingers? It seems to have happend to me."

reply:

"Posted by Dark Flamingo at 03-20-05 18:31:12
Re: Dude and dudete problems
You crawl into a dark hole and bring a pint of chocolate ice cream with you. "

Here's the alternate:  





> dudette ?
> 
> i got the 'term' dudette from a friend who used to call me that way ... it's like the female version of 'dude' - it was a really cute name so i decided to use it


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## la grive solitaire

Speaking of -et/ette...  

A Rhyming Poem

I was walking home with my friend Brett
When he asked me to take a bet,
Off’ring a marijuana cigarette
His words I would not soon forget

I was quite close to Brett the brunette
Me and him were a third of a jazz sextet 
But sadly I’d incurred much debt
And so I spoke words I’d soon regret

The rest is available at:

http://donovan.covblogs.com/archives/001415.html


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## cuchuflete

Greetings La Grive S.,

I've edited your lengthy quote...please note that short excerpts are fine...

from the WR rules, in FAQ



> # No web pages or copyrighted or plagiarized content may be inserted into WordReference posts. Minor fair use excerpts from dictionaries such as a definition/translation or two is permitted. Other quotes of less than one paragraph (4 sentences) are permitted as well. All other forms of inserted content from press releases, newsletters, web pages, or any other copyrighted content placed into messages will be removed without exception. A link to the content is acceptable and appropriate.


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## gaer

zebedee said:
			
		

> Well, yes, as I said:


The quote isn't showing up, but I see the point now. I had only read the original post and had not seen the brunet/brunette connection.

I've got it now, sorry I missed the post about "ladette". 

G


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## Edwin

zebedee said:
			
		

> I was actually trying to find examples of how -ette is added to make a masculine thing feminine.
> I'm sure there are more examples from both sides of the pond! Can anyone think of any?
> _Star - starlette _ maybe? Though star can be masculine or feminine...



bachelor--bachelorette
farmer--farmerette  (rare but will pass the scrabble test I think)
drum major--drum majorette
usher--usherette


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## la grive solitaire

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Greetings La Grive S.,
> 
> I've edited your lengthy quote...please note that short excerpts are fine...
> 
> from the WR rules, in FAQ




A thousand pardons, cuchuflete! I promise to keep future excerpts short. I posted the poem because it's rhymed with words ending in -et/-ette; here's the link if you'd still like to include it.:

http://donovan.covblogs.com/archives/001415.html


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## gaer

Edwin said:
			
		

> bachelor--bachelorette
> farmer--farmerette  (rare but will pass the scrabble test I think)
> drum major--drum majorette
> usher--usherette


Excellent list, Edwin. 

Gaer


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## cuchuflete

la grive solitaire said:
			
		

> A thousand pardons, cuchuflete! I promise to keep future excerpts short. I posted the poem because it's rhymed with words ending in -et/-ette; here's the link if you'd still like to include it.:
> 
> http://donovan.covblogs.com/archives/001415.html



No need for apologies...I like the poem, and for me at least, the original link works perfectly well.  We are simply trying to avoid legal messes for WR.
Thanks for providing this poem.

saludos,
Cuchu


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## Agnès E.

Does Cuchufle/Cuchuflete work ?
(Sorry, I just could resist any more).


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## cuchuflete

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Does Cuchufle/Cuchuflete work ?
> (Sorry, I just could resist any more).



Really Agnes!  I am deeply troubled by the strong underlying anti-French sentiment in your words.   Do you really mean to imply that the Resistance is no longer your guiding principal?  This blatant attack on the traditional use of the "tt" to form the affectionate diminutive should be reported, without delay, to the Academie Français. 

With deep respect and troubled heart,
C.









happy April Fools' Day


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## la grive solitaire

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Does Cuchufle/Cuchuflete work ?
> (Sorry, I just could resist any more).




Cuchuflete,
C'est chouette!

(I couldn't resist either! )


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## Agnès E.

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Really Agnes! I am deeply troubled by the strong underlying anti-French sentiment in your words. Do you really mean to imply that the Resistance is no longer your guiding principal? This blatant attack on the traditional use of the "tt" to form the affectionate diminutive should be reported, without delay, to the Academie Français.
> 
> With deep respect and troubled heart,
> C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> happy April Fools' Day




Damned, they know everything !
I'm gonna migrate to the US !


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## cuchuflete

> chouette	 (gentil)	adj	kind
> chouette	(Péjoratif - femme)	nf	old bag
> chouette	(Zoologie)	nf	owl
> chouette	(agréable, beau)	adj	neat-looking
> 
> Additional Translations:
> chouette		adj	peachy-keen
> chouette	(coopératif)	adj	helpful
> chouette	(super, chic)	adj	jim-dandy
> chouette	(super - interjection)	intérjection	great



Bueno Elegantísimas Señoras,
Which one should I use to understand that beautifully ambiguous post?


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## la grive solitaire

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Damned, they know everything !
> I'm gonna migrate to the US !




Egret
without
regret?


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## Agnès E.

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Bueno Elegantísimas Señoras,
> Which one should I use to understand that beautifully ambiguous post?



Dear Sir,
May I kindly suggest you to visit a very nice language forum (link mentioned below) :

http://forum.wordreference.com

Where you can choose languages (I strongly advise you the "French-English" forum), and which members (also known as "foreros") are particularly renowned to be as helpful as possible.

Yours faithfully,
Agnes.ette, moon, owl, lily, Mg


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## Agnès E.

la grive solitaire said:
			
		

> Egret
> without
> regret?



Non, rien de rien,
Non, je ne REGRETTE rien ...
(air connu)


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## la grive solitaire

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Bueno Elegantísimas Señoras,
> Which one should I use to understand that beautifully ambiguous post?




Chuchuflete
don't fret
you're a peach--
c'est chouette!


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## Antonio

What is the difference between *brunette* and *dark-skined*?


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## lsp

Antonio said:
			
		

> What is the difference between *brunette* and *dark-skined*?


The first typically is used in reference only to hair color. I have never heard it used for skin tone.


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## ojyram

-ette (Fr: see -et) suffix
1.  little
2.  female as applied to persons, now often avoided as patronizing or discriminatory
(usherette, suffragette, majorette)

Websters New World Dictionary, Third college edition
(Just looked at the copyright--1988!  I'd better buy a new dictionary!)


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## mjscott

Antonio-
Many of my Mexican students refer to brunettes as being dark-skinned. As a US person with English as my first language, I had never heard it used for dark-skinned before my students used brunette as a reference to someone with dark skin. I spoke about someone with dark hair as being a brunette, and they said, "No! No, miss! Jaime is not a brunette--he has fair skin, like a güero!


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## Antonio

Hi mjscott,

I got your point so far. *Brunet/Brunette* is used to describe a male or a female that used or have *dark hair * and *dark-skinned * mean someone who has *dark skin*, right?

My question is that, this last one applys for color man and woman, or only dark-skinned people? and secondly, is very common to say in English *Brunet/Brunette * or do you have another word in English to describe someone with dark hair?


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## mjscott

You can say, "dark-haired."

"A dark-haired beauty" is the same as a "brunette beauty." You would not call a man a "dark-haired beauty," but you would say, "that dark-haired man over there," if you were describing a brunette man. 
"He/She's the one with the dark hair," or
"He/She's the dark-haired person over there," would be acceptable.


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## Antonio

Hi mjscott

Which is more common to hear this days *"dark-haired, dark hair or brunet"* I mean to describe a person with dark hair? Black people can be also called *"dark-skinned"* or not necessarily?


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## te gato

Antonio said:
			
		

> Hi mjscott
> 
> Which is more common to hear this days *"dark-haired, dark hair or brunet"* I mean to describe a person with dark hair? Black people can be also called *"dark-skinned"* or not necessarily?


 
Hey Antonio;
sorry I'm not mjscott..but I will answer any way.. 
I am a 'brunette'..even my shampoo says for 'brunette' hair...so I go by that..I am a 'brunette'...

Yes you can use the term 'dark-skinned' to describe people of the Negro race..but I think they would prefer to be called by their given name...the term 'dark-skinned' is a hard one to peg down..I have been called 'dark-skinned' myself..and I have Olive colored skin..I guess it just depends on what the person who is using the term considers dark...

te gato


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## mjscott

How right you are, Gatita! I, also, have been surprised at what is considered dark-skinned. My son, who has dark hair with lighter highlights, (he was a blonde as a toddler) went to the Netherlands on his honeymoon to meet his in-laws. My daughter-in-law's grandfather kept referring to my son as "the dark one!"

Antonio,
It is relative. I am sure that among Mexicans you have fairer people, who might be called güero in Mexico, and might be called "the dark one" in other cultures. However, the terms brunette (used most ordinarily with reference to a woman) and dark-haired (used equally for both sexes) are fine.


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> How right you are, Gatita! I, also, have been surprised at what is considered dark-skinned. My son, who has dark hair with lighter highlights, (he was a blonde as a toddler) went to the Netherlands on his honeymoon to meet his in-laws. My daughter-in-law's grandfather kept referring to my son as "the dark one!"
> 
> Antonio,
> It is relative. I am sure that among Mexicans you have fairer people, who might be called güero in Mexico, and might be called "the dark one" in other cultures. However, the terms brunette (used most ordinarily with reference to a woman) and dark-haired (used equally for both sexes) is fine.


Hey mjscott;

I agree..I have never said about a man...OH!! would you look at that 'brunette' over there mmm... You would get laughed out of where ever you were!.. 
For men..yes it is 'dark-haired'...as it can be for women also...

te gato


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## lsp

mjscott said:
			
		

> Antonio-
> Many of my Mexican students refer to brunettes as being dark-skinned. As a US person with English as my first language, I had never heard it used for dark-skinned before my students used brunette as a reference to someone with dark skin. I spoke about someone with dark hair as being a brunette, and they said, "No! No, miss! Jaime is not a brunette--he has fair skin, like a güero!


So how is a woman with dark brown hair and fair skin called if not a brunette?


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## mjscott

In Washington State, by most US people I know, she would be called a brunette. By some Mexican nationals who have migrated to Washington State, she might be called a güera, but I would consider it incorrect, even in Spanish.

But, then again, Spanish is not my first language.


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## Antonio

Hi mjscott,

Thanks for your definitions and te gato also, I honestly got your point right now. I Just wanna add something, to clarify the meanings so far, so you won't get easily confused. *"guero/a"* is like saying in English *"blonde"*, *"guerito/a"* is like saying *"blondy"* in English. I'm not sure what you mean by *"guero"* in the brunette case. 

But let me clarity you, something up to this point, some poeple in Mexico not all people, when they see a dark-haired woman or man, may be called *"guero/a"* because they have dark hair but their eyes are blue or gueen or whatever and their skin is white. I don't know if I can say in English *"blonde"* or *"blondy"* to someone who had the same features that I describe you previously?


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## mjscott

No--if they have dark hair they are not a blonde--even if their eyes are as blue or green as the lagunas de Monterrey. That is what confused me when my students said it.


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## te gato

lsp said:
			
		

> So how is a woman with dark brown hair and fair skin called if not a brunette?


Hey lsp;
How about...Hey baby!! 
Still a brunette...it is mainly used for hair color...

te gato


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## te gato

Antonio said:
			
		

> Hi mjscott,
> 
> Thanks for your definitions and te gato also, I honestly got your point right now. I Just wanna add something, to clarify the meanings so far, so you won't get easily confused. *"guero/a"* is like saying in English *"blonde"*, *"guerito/a"* is like saying *"blondy"* in English. I'm not sure what you mean by *"guero"* in the brunette case.
> 
> But let me clarity you, something up to this point, some poeple in Mexico not all people, when they see a dark-haired woman or man, may be called *"guero/a"* because they have dark hair but their eyes are blue or gueen or whatever and their skin is white. I don't know if I can say in English *"blonde"* or *"blondy"* to someone who had the same features that I describe you previously?


Hey Antonio;
You are most welcome..anytime this 'brunette' can help...
No here..it seems to go all on hair color...
Blond--'blondy
Brown..Dark Brown--Brunette
The eye color has nothing to do with it...

te gato


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## Antonio

Hi mjscott,

Probably they're teasing you, because in Monterrey, we don't have a lagoon, we only have with that name *"El Ojo del Agua"* and *"La Cola de Caballo"* (This lasy one is very famous among turists) but I think this has nothing to do with it. Anyway thank you for clarifying that to me and te gato also. Just one last thing, someone that has *"read hair"*, what do you call this person in English?


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## te gato

Antonio said:
			
		

> Hi mjscott,
> 
> Probably they're teasing you, because in Monterrey, we don't have a lagoon, we only have with that name *"El Ojo del Agua"* and *"La Cola de Caballo"* (This lasy one is very famous among turists) but I think this has nothing to do with it. Anyway thank you for clarifying that to me and te gato also. Just one last thing, someone that has *"read hair"*, what do you call this person in English?


Hey Antonio;
Here we call them Red-Heads..
There are many shades of red hair..Copper, Fire Red, Mahogany...Cherry..yadda,yadda...but red-heads is the most used...

te gato


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## Antonio

What does *"yadda"* mean?


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## mjscott

There is a TV program called Jerry Seinfeld. In one of his episodes (he is a comedian) the emphasis was "yadda yadda"--and it was used, just as the king of Siam, in the musical _The King and I _using the term, etc. etc. (etcetera, etcetera). It means, _and on and on...._

Te gato's fingers hit the "yadda yadda" keys meaning "and so on and so on...." so that she could divert her thinking from chocolate.

When te_gato mentions chocolate, she is usually done posting on a thread.
(just kidding, Kitty!)


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## lsp

mjscott said:
			
		

> There is a TV program called Jerry Seinfeld. In one of his episodes (he is a comedian) the emphasis was "yadda yadda"--and it was used, just as the king of Siam, in the musical _The King and I _using the term, etc. etc. (etcetera, etcetera). It means, _and on and on...._
> 
> Te gato's fingers hit the "yadda yadda" keys meaning "and so on and so on...." so that she could divert her thinking from chocolate.
> 
> When te_gato mentions chocolate, she is usually done posting on a thread.
> (just kidding, Kitty!)


Ugh, I hate when Sienfeld gets credit for it. He said it on TV and popularized it, but he didn't invent it! (Sorry mj, it's a thing of mine )


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## mjscott

I'm just suggesting the most well-known reference--except for te_gato!


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> There is a TV program called Jerry Seinfeld. In one of his episodes (he is a comedian) the emphasis was "yadda yadda"--and it was used, just as the king of Siam, in the musical _The King and I _using the term, etc. etc. (etcetera, etcetera). It means, _and on and on...._
> 
> Te gato's fingers hit the "yadda yadda" keys meaning "and so on and so on...." so that she could divert her thinking from chocolate.
> 
> When te_gato mentions chocolate, she is usually done posting on a thread.
> (just kidding, Kitty!)


Hey mjscott;

Oh how right you are!!!
and so on..and so on...sounds so much better than the words I like to use...
'OH for Pete Sake!!! Get to the Point!!'..or...'bla..bla..bla..yadda,yadda'
mmmm chocolate..got to go!!!
kisses
te gato  (kitty)


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## Antonio

*bla..bla..bla..* *"yadda yadda"* *"on and on"* *"and so on"* mean the same thing as etcetera? By the way, *yadda* or *yadda yadda * can be repited once or twice in a sentence or in spoken English, just to make sure I say it correctly?


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## gaer

Antonio said:
			
		

> *bla..bla..bla..* *"yadda yadda"* *"on and on"* *"and so on"* mean the same thing as etcetera? By the way, *yadda* or *yadda yadda *can be repited once or twice in a sentence or in spoken English, just to make sure I say it correctly?


My answer: No!

The reason is that etc. (etcetera) is polite, and so is "and so on".

bla..bla..bla..  and yadda yadda MAY be highly rude, espeically the first one.

Bla, bla, bla, especially, is something I would use to show annoyance, showing that I think someone is saying something totally worthless.

But you should start a new thread, perhaps…

Gaer


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## te gato

Antonio said:
			
		

> *bla..bla..bla..* *"yadda yadda"* *"on and on"* *"and so on"* mean the same thing as etcetera? By the way, *yadda* or *yadda yadda *can be repited once or twice in a sentence or in spoken English, just to make sure I say it correctly?


Hey Antonio;

Yes they all mean etcetera...If you can try and not use 'bla..bla" it is not very nice....'and so on' is more polite to use...and yadda, yadda..twice...is mine!..I was saying it before anyone...I was robbed!!! (kidding) it is not said or written that much..I'm not even sure if it is proper...but in my own Alberta English..its ok..

te gato


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## Rob625

I don't know when you started, te gato, but Dory Previn was at it back in 1971:



> yada yada la scala
> yada yada yada yada yada
> let’s stop talking talking talking
> wasting precious time
> just a lot of empty noise
> that isn’t worth a dime
> words of wonder
> words of whether
> should we shouldn’t we
> be together
> yada yada yada yada yada



Full text at http://starwalk.com/dory/yada.htm


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## te gato

Rob625 said:
			
		

> I don't know when you started, te gato, but Dory Previn was at it back in 1971:
> 
> 
> 
> Full text at http://starwalk.com/dory/yada.htm


Hey Rob625;

Ok I'll give it back to Dory.. 

By the way..I said I was kidding..and If I told you when I started..that might give my age away..and a 'Lady' never tells her age...yea!! right...
I was about five...I got it from my Dad...(it was my new word that stuck with me)...and I beat Dory by a year!!

te gato


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## mjscott

WHOA, Rob625!
Yadda yadda (yada yada) must have been said by te_gato as a toddler! Maybe Dory Previn was her babysitter.....

Antonio--
Blah, blah, blah is rude--and even yadda yadda can be rude--it infers boredom with whatever the conversation is. Usually, however, you would say, "yadda yadda," when you are inferring that whatever _you, yourself_ are saying is just going on and on, yadda yadda.  One "yadda" would not be enough, however--it must be a "yadda yadda."


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## annieoaklie

What about usher usherette.
I saw a reference to this on weddingireland dot ie discussion forum.


The lady was using both a male and felmale usher and is worried about what to call the female Usher or Usherette.

Since the nineties I thought we were dropping all this gender disdinguising. 

I can't see to many lads being happy being referred to as brunettes.
But I think "Tom Boys" would prefer the title ladette!


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