# 面子



## zebedeee

I know that this means face or honour.
I'm wondering about its usage in the following context.

I'm reading an Initial D Doujinshi and a team is meeting to decide on which members will take part in the next racing meet. So they're using it as follows.

面子も決まった and
面子に選ばれた

I know from the context it has the meaning of representative/participant but using that particular word would also imply that they're defending the honor of the team or that they're the public face of the team?

How common is it us to use 面子 in this context?


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## cheshire

> using that particular word would also imply that they're defending the honor of the team or that they're the public face of the team?


No, I don't think so. 面子 used there is just another word for "members".


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## zebedeee

I'm reading to much into it then. 
Normally the english loan word メンバー　is used to refer to members of the team and 面子 is used for those members chosen to particpate in a particular race.


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## cheshire

It's not limited to "race", but yes you're right.


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## Flaminius

> sing that particular word would also imply that they're defending the honor of the team or that they're the public face of the team?



There are two different 面子's.  One 面子 (or メンツ) is a loan from Chinese meaning respectability or the face.  Another 面子 is a Japanese-only word that may or may not have been derived from the first word.  It is a very casual word for a number of people necessary for an activity such as race, mahjong, and so on.

For a while, 面子も決まった and 面子に選ばれた get me off the track.  It's not often that I encounter the word in writing.


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## zebedeee

Well now I understand what it means. I was really lead astray by the chinese meaning. Every dictionary I looked at only mentioned the chinese meaning.

Thanks Flaminus and Cheshire


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## cheshire

It's a trivia, the English idiom "lose face" entered English vocabulary by Chinese workers who came to work for the construction of the transamerican railway.


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## Hiro Sasaki

zebedeee said:


> I know that this means face or honour.
> I'm wondering about its usage in the following context.
> 
> I'm reading an Initial D Doujinshi and a team is meeting to decide on which members will take part in the next racing meet. So they're using it as follows.
> 
> 面子も決まった and
> 面子に選ばれた
> 
> I know from the context it has the meaning of representative/participant but using that particular word would also imply that they're defending the honor of the team or that they're the public face of the team?
> 
> How common is it us to use 面子 in this context?


 
面子も決まった and
面子に選ばれた

These sentences do not make sense.

We say ; 面子（　めんつ　）　を重んじる

面子を　失う。　This chinese word was adapted in our language in con temporary ages and the English expression "lose face" also comes from this chinese word. 

Hiro Sasaki


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## Flaminius

*Hiro*, I was also confused.  What threw me off was that this _mentsu_ was written in kanji (面子), which I thought should be used exclusively for the Chinese-derived word.

What way I see it, there are two *words* discussed (and alas, confused) here.  One is with the respectability sense and the other is with the member or the necessary number of people sense.

The latter is a very casual word that I regard still in the domain of slang.  Even though a quick Google search reveals that the second word is sometimes spelt as 面子, I am not very happy with the practise; first, because I feel the word has yet to distinguish itself as part of the standard written Japanese; second, because I doubt if katakana is not a more appropriate representation.

The first word seems to have little to do with the second since Mandarin does not use 面 or face as a metaphor of a member/participant.  A general tendency is to use 手 or hand to express similar ideas.


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