# pronunciation - bebes



## Asian

http://my.spanishdict.com/learn/show/5 there they pronounce me bebes as if the stress falls on the second syllable ( bes) but according to the rule, words ending with s sould be stressed on syllable ahead of it, so it should be bébes instead of bebés ?


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## swift

Hola Asian:

Y está muy bien pronunciado, ya que probablemente el software reconozca "bebes" como el presente de "beber": tú bebes . Si quieres escuchar la pronunciación correcta de "bebés", deberás escribir la tilde sobre la segunda "e" .

Saludos,


swift


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## Asian

I don't understand.....


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## swift

Asian said:


> I don't understand...



Sorry, I didn't express myself as I meant to. And I misunderstood your question* . You're totally right: bebes should be stressed in the penultimate syllable: /bébes/; bebés is the plural of "bebé", babe.




* In Spanish, we count syllables backwards.  Therefore, in "bebes", "be-" is the second syllable.


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## elprofe

bebes: Segunda persona del verbo beber en presente. Tú bebes. No lleva tilde y la sílaba tónica es la primera (be).
bebés: Plural de "bebé", Lleva tilde en la segunda "e".
bébes : No existe.


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## AlbertoCrakito

swift said:


> * In Spanish, we count syllables backwards.  Therefore, in "bebes", "be-" is the second syllable.


Do you really? 
BTW, "bebé" is translated as "baby".


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## swift

¿Cómo las cuentas tú, Alberto?

Lo que queda claro es que por ser palabra paroxítona,  en "bebes" be- es tónica...

Saludos,


swift


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## Sköll

última (last), penúltima (second to last) , antepenúltima (third from last) sílaba.


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## Pinairun

swift said:


> ¿Cómo las cuentas tú, Alberto?
> 
> Lo que queda claro es que por ser palabra paroxítona,  en "bebes" be- es tónica...
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> 
> swift



Alberto no lo sé, pero yo lo hago de derecha a izquierda y digo: última, penúltima, antepenúltima...


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## swift

Pinairun said:


> Alberto no lo sé, pero yo lo hago de derecha a izquierda y digo: última, penúltima, antepenúltima...



Igual que yo: de atrás hacia adelante .

Ejemplo:

A-vio-ne-ta
4-3-2-1

¿Sí o no?


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## AlbertoCrakito

Ufff, lo cierto es que ahora no recuerdo si alguna vez me he parado a contar las sílabas de una palabra de manera práctica. Lo siento.


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## swift

No te preocupes Alberto. De todas formas, lo que nos interesaba aquí era la prosodia y no la métrica. Hasta le diste un bono a Asian ofreciendo la traducción de "bebé" al inglés...



Un saludo,


swift


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## AlbertoCrakito

Oh, es bueno saber que he ayudado en algo. Un saludo.


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## Pinairun

swift said:


> Igual que yo: de atrás hacia adelante .
> 
> Ejemplo:
> 
> A-vio-ne-ta
> 4-3-2-1
> 
> ¿Sí o no?



SÍ.
Uno, dos, tres, eso lo hago mentalmente. Luego digo última, penúltima... no se me ocurre decir primera, segunda... Jo, vaya lío.


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## Asian

hm....
I don't understand what you guys say in this topic. My Spanish's not that good


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## elprofe

They are discussing about how each of them counts the syllables of the word.
For example: "botella".
bo-te-lla
1ª-2ª-3ª 
or
bo-te-lla
3ª-2ª-1ª

By the way, If you said to me which the first syllable of "botella" is, I would say : "Bo". However, "Swift" counts the syllables the other way round ( or back to front? :S) and he would say "lla"


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## Sköll

It was a simple misunderstanding. Most people count syllables from last to first. But when they say it out loud, they say 'last syllable', 'second to last syllable', etc. even though they have counted it last to first.


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## swift

Hello Asian !



Asian said:


> they pronounce  bebes as if the stress falls on the second syllable (bes)



It must be a mistake: "bebes" should be pronounced /bébes/.



> but according to the rule, words ending with s sould be stressed on syllable ahead of it, so it should be bébes instead of bebés ?


Not necessarily... "Marqués" ends in "-s" but the stress comes on the "last" syllable, "-qués".


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## Asian

yes, but
1) I've never counted syllable from last to first
2) @swift: Yes, but Marqués has an accent over e, so it's an exception


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## swift

Asian said:


> @swift: Yes, but Marqués has an accent over e, so it's an exception



Sure but the rule you referred to in your first message is applicable only to paroxytones:

Carnes = /kárnes/
Dientes = /diéntes/
Alforjas = /alfórxas/



However that may be, "bebes" must be pronounced /bébes/.

Cheers,


swift


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## Samdie

Sköll said:


> It was a simple misunderstanding. Most people count syllables from last to first. But when they say it out loud, they say 'last syllable', 'second to last syllable', etc. even though they have counted it last to first.


Not really. When we *count* syllables (first,second,etc.) we do so in the order in which they would be *written*. However, when discussing stress, we usually use *words* (last syllable, penultimate, antepenultimate) for the simple reason that (as in Spanish) those are the ones that most often carry the stress (and because, when they do, it doesn't matter how many syllables precede them).


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## Sköll

Samdie said:


> Not really. When we *count* syllables (first,second,etc.) we do so in the order in which they would be *written*. However, when discussing stress, we usually use *words* (last syllable, penultimate, antepenultimate) for the simple reason that (as in Spanish) those are the ones that most often carry the stress.


I'm sorry, I was talking about Spanish, not English. Most people "count" syllables backwards in Spanish because how a word ends affects how it is written---with or without accent mark.


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## SDLX Master

Asian said:


> http://my.spanishdict.com/learn/show/5 there they pronounce me bebes as if the stress falls on the second syllable ( bes) but according to the rule, words ending with s sould be stressed on syllable ahead of it, so it should be bébes instead of bebés ?


 
Asian, keep this in mind:

Bebé = baby
Bebés = babies

You can pronounce both words with the stress on the last syllable or even do it in the first one, and people will always understand what you are saying.


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## ampurdan

swift said:


> Sure but the rule you referred to in your first message is applicable only to paroxytones:
> 
> Carnes = /kárnes/
> Dientes = /diéntes/
> Alforjas = /alfórxas/
> 
> 
> 
> However that may be, "bebes" must be pronounced /bébes/.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> swift



Swift, I think you're misunderstanding what Asian says.

We, Spanish speakers are taught in School the rules about *when to **write* the graffic accent on the word. We don't need to know the rules about  *where to stress*a word we read.

For learners of other languages, it is the other way around. They need what syllable should be stressed. They use the same rules we learnt for writing graphic accents, but, of course, they are "reversed". So, when they read a word that ends with and "s" and has no graphic accent, they know that they should stress the final vowel.


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## swift

ampurdan said:


> So, when they read a word that ends with and "s" and has no graphic accent, they know that they should stress the final vowel.



Hi Ampurdan !

This question may seem a little silly but... which is the final vowel in "bebes" ("you drink", not "babes") ? Is it b*e*- or -b*e*s ?

Here's the way I understand your explanation: bebes, a word ending in "s" and having no graphic accent, should be stressed in "bes".


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## ampurdan

Oh! Sorry, Swift, I meant: "they know that they should stress the penultimate vowel". My fault.


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## Asian

@master: Well, isn't it a bit against the rule?


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## ampurdan

I can't see your link, but if they are "voseantes", they may be saying "me bebés". Just a guess.


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## Asian

what is voseantes?


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## ampurdan

Asian said:


> what is voseantes?



What ARE voseantes? Too long to explain here. You can find lots of threads in these forums about the "voseo" (use of "vos" instead of "tú").

Here you can find a general explanation in English:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo


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## Samdie

ampurdan said:


> We, Spanish speakers are taught in School the rules about *when to **write* the graffic accent on the word. We don't need to know the rules about  *where to stress*a word we read.
> 
> For learners of other languages, it is the other way around. They need what syllable should be stressed. They use the same rules we learnt for writing graphic accents, but, of course, they are "reversed". So, when they read a word that ends with and "s" and has no graphic accent, they know that they should stress the final vowel.


It would be nice if more non-native students were taught to make this distinction. I get so tired of hearing people saying "you put the stress on the X syllable because of the accent/tilde" instead of the more accurate "You *write* an accent/tilde because of where the stress *falls*".


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## ampurdan

Samdie said:


> It would be nice if more non-native students were taught to make this distinction. I get so tired of hearing people saying "you put the stress on the X syllable because of the accent/tilde" instead of the more accurate "You *write* an accent/tilde because of where the stress *falls*".



It looks like two sides of the same coin to me.


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## SDLX Master

Asian said:


> @master: Well, isn't it a bit against the rule?


 
Nope, particularly with those words it is not.


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## Asian

oh because there's already an accent on the original bebé?


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## mrbob

Sköll said:


> It was a simple misunderstanding. Most people count syllables from last to first. But when they say it out loud, they say 'last syllable', 'second to last syllable', etc. even though they have counted it last to first.



Also terms like ultima, penult, and antepenult mean last, next to last, and before next to last syllables respectively.


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## Sköll

mrbob said:


> Also terms like ultima, penult, and antepenult mean last, next to last, and before next to last syllables respectively.



Última, penúltima, antepenúltima. 
See message #8


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## SDLX Master

Asian said:


> oh because there's already an accent on the original bebé?


 
Yes, you see the accent mark, but again, you can say be*bé *or even say *be*be (_not inflection of "to drink"_) and there will be no problem.
_i.e._
_El bebé está llorando / El bebe está llorando._ Both sentences mean, "The baby is crying".

I tend to believe this happens because the word is made up of the same syllables.


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## Sköll

SDLX Master said:


> Yes, you see the accent mark, but again, you can say be*bé *or even say *be*be (_not inflection of "to drink"_) and there will be no problem.
> _i.e._
> _El bebé está llorando / El bebe está llorando._ Both sentences mean, "The baby is crying".
> 
> I tend to believe this happens because the word is made up of the same syllables.


That is true in Peru and some other places:

bebe, ba.1. m. y f. Arg., Hond., Perú y Ur. Niño de pecho. (DRAE)


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