# מן vs מאשר



## girloncrack

Can someone explain to me when you would use מן and when you would use מאשר in a comparison?  

למשל, אני יכול לכתוב יותר טוב מאשר לדבר
יש לי יותר תפוזים מאשר לך

Please free to correct other grammatical errors too, of course!


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## בעל-חלומות

The truth is, that we don't really use any when we speak. Well, we use מן but it doesn't look like מן because after many years of saying it before words it got reduced and became a part of the word in the form of מ.

I would say your sentences in the example as:

הכתיבה שלי יותר טובה מהדיבור
יש לי יותר תפוזים מלך

מאשר can be used too, but I don't think מן is used like that very much if at all.
למשל:
אני כותב יותר טוב מאשר מדבר
יש לי יותר תפוזים מאשר לך


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## girloncrack

Thanks!  I actually only use מאשר, but i asked about מן because i was reading through many of the posts on this forum and it seemed to be used fairly frequently.  As far as written Hebrew, how would you characterize their usage?  Let's say the three types of writing would be colloquial email, a formal letter, and flowery literature...


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## cfu507

בעל-חלומות said:


> יש לי יותר תפוזים מלך


 
Can't explain why, but in this sentence I would use מאשר.
יש לי יותר תפוזים מאשר לך or יש לי יותר תפוזים ממך. I'm not sure if my second sentence is grammaitclly correct.


We mostly say מ and there is no difference between the three options.



> אני כותב יותר טוב מאשר מדבר


I would say it differently: אני טוב יותר בכתיבה מאשר בדיבור. I'm sorry, the original sentence sounds as if a new immigrant said it, but I might be wrong about it.


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## girloncrack

That's ok cfu507, I'm sure my Hebrew is generally worse than that of a new immigrant!  How about:

אני יכולה לכתוב יותר טוב מלדבר?

זה גם נשמע מוזר?​


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## cfu507

Funny, but the sentence I quoted was NOT yours!!! 
Can I cry about my English?

I found something for you.
When you talk about people - don't use מאשר. For example:
אני טוב מאשר אתה - sounds wrong. אני טוב יותר ממך - sounds perfect.
אני מהיר מאשר אתה - sounds wron. אני מהיר ממך - sounds perfect.
pay attention, I didn't have to say יותר in my two examples. 

אתה מדבר טוב יותר אנגלית מאשר עברית - I compared two languages here, so I used מאשר and I could also use מ. 
In this sentence, if you omited the word יותר it would sound odd (maybe it is grammatically correct, I don't know). 
אני טוב באנגלית מאשר בעברית - that's fine.
I think there was a thread about omiting the word יותר  with טוב, and if there is no such a thread - you are welcome to ask it. I have an answer for you, but ask it separately in another theard.

I wouldn't use מן in all my examples. Still can't find a sentence with מן for comparison.


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## cfu507

girloncrack said:


> That's ok cfu507, I'm sure my Hebrew is generally worse than that of a new immigrant! How about:
> 
> אני יכולה לכתוב יותר טוב מלדבר?​
> 
> זה גם נשמע מוזר?​


 
To me, yes. I would understand you, don't get me wrong! and maybe other pepole would say that it is fine. 
Maybe אני יכולה לכתוב טוב יותר מלדבר is better. I can't explain why. But still, I would say it as I suggested befoer:
אני טובה יותר בכתיבה מאשר בדיבור.

Edit: here is your sentence: אני יכולה לכתוב טוב יותר מאשר לדבר. It sounds strange מ with שם הפועל (gerund). I need to think about examples when it might work together. Wait for other answers.


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## cfu507

One more thing.
In another thread there was an example: יש יותר עטים מן עפרונות. I wouldn't use מן. I would say: יש יותר עטים מעפרונות or יש יותר עטים מאשר עפרונות.


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## Flaminius

*cfu*, could it be that your example sentences mean that _me'asher_ is obligatory when the compared object is modified by a preposition?


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## בעל-חלומות

cfu507 said:


> Can't explain why, but in this sentence I would use מאשר.
> יש לי יותר תפוזים מאשר לך or יש לי יותר תפוזים ממך. I'm not sure if my second sentence is grammaitclly correct.


I wanted to suggest יש לי יותר תפוזים ממך too, which is how I would say it, but I too thought that it's not grammatically correct, so I omitted it.




cfu507 said:


> I would say it differently: אני טוב יותר בכתיבה מאשר בדיבור. I'm sorry, the original sentence sounds as if a new immigrant said it, but I might be wrong about it.


You are right, and I blame lack of sleep and distant russian roots...
Still, even here I would not use מאשר, but אני יותר טוב בכתיבה מבדיבור.



> Edit: here is your sentence: אני יכולה לכתוב טוב יותר מאשר לדבר. It sounds strange מ with שם הפועל (gerund). I need to think about examples when it might work together. Wait for other answers.


The מ doesn't sound natural here, but it does in sentences of preference (I think that's how they are called, I'm translating כrom French here) like:
אני מעדיף ללכת לים מלשבת פה כל היום


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## cfu507

בעל-חלומות said:


> אני מעדיף ללכת לים מלשבת פה כל היום


 
You are right, we do say it that way in this sentence, and you could also say מאשר לשבת.

אני מעדיפה לשחק שח-מט מלצפות בטלויזיה is also right.

I reconsidered, מ can be with ground. Maybe the word יכולה bothered me and girloncrack's sentence is fine. I just know that I would say it differently.


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## jukolipo

i've been learning in israel in the ulpan, and what i learn about this thing is that:

מו ו מאשר are the same thing, but you have to use מאשר when the next word has a preposition, for example:

לירושלים יש יותר דתיים מאשר לתל אביב

But, in this other, you can use מ/מן:

ירושלים נמצה יותר גבוה מעילת


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## cfu507

Flaminius said:


> *cfu*, could it be that your example sentences mean that _me'asher_ is obligatory when the compared object is modified by a preposition?


 
No, that's not what I said. 
I'm sorry that I didn't go into detail enough. I meant that you can't use מאשר after pronoun (מילת גוף) when you want to compare between people:
אני גבוה מאשר אתה is wrong
אני גבוה מאתה is also wrong. You cannot use מ before pronoun too.
אני גבוה ממך is the correct way to say it.
That's all what I meant.

I find it funny that מן and מ are מילת יחס while מאשר is מילת חיבור, when these words have the same meaning.


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## Mjolnir

Just a small correction:


jukolipo said:


> ירושלים נמצאת יותר גבוה מעילת



Also, if you meant Eilat, it's אילת.


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## .Lola.

Hello!
It's funny, I just wanted to ask a question about מן and מאשר and found this thread.
As far as I remember, מאשר has to be used before a preposition (including infinitive - which also begins with preposition in fact) and also before a verb. So:
המחירים במרכז העיר יותר גבוהים מאשר בשכונה שלנו.
הוא יודע לדבר יותר טוב מאשר לכתוב.
הוא מדבר יותר טוב מאשר כותב.

Is that correct? Are there any other rules?

and another question:
In some book, I've found these examples of using מאשר :
הדירה חהדשה עלתה יותר כסף מאשר הדירה הישנה.
המכונית היא ממודל חדש יותר מאשר המכונית הישנה שלו.
To me it seems perfectly OK to use מן as well in these 2 senteces. Does that mean that both possibilities are correct?​​


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## girloncrack

Am I missing something, because people seem to agree that מאשר must be used before a preposition, but I don't see that a preposition follows in any of the examples given.  

I would think that an appropriate example of using מאשר with a preposition would be  אני יותר שמחה איתו מאשר בלעדו (I am happier with him than without him).  By the way, I know that this sentence is probably all wrong in Hebrew, so please correct it.

Perhaps I don't know what the actual definition of a preposition is - can anyone help me with this?


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## cfu507

girloncrack said:


> אני יותר שמחה איתו מאשר בלעדו


 
אני שמחה יותר איתו מאשר בלעד*י*ו




> מאשר must be used before a preposition


 
I don't understand this rule either. I don't know this rule (it doesn't mean this rule is erroneous). 
מ and מן are preposition, they both mean מאשר you can't use מאשר and מ together. Which preposition do you mean in this rule?

Also, if there is a rule, we say:
יש יותר דתיים בירושלים מאשר בתל-אביב
as well as:
יש יותר דתיים בירושלים מבתל-אביב.
In this examples ב is preposition. Maybe the second sentence is grammatically incorrect (according to the rule you mentioned above). I don't know and I don't have grammar books.

Another example:
יש יותר דגים מתחת למים מאשר מעל המים
יש יותר דגים מתחת למים ממעל למים
In this examples מעל is preposition. The second sentence sounds strange to me. I can't explain why.

In all my examples, I wouldn't use מן. We barely use מן as מ and it doesn't fit in my examples.

You can always use מאשר or מ. In the phrase טובים השנים מן האחד always use מן. I can't think about other phrases with מן as מאשר.

Perhaps the rule is that you should use מאשר instead of מ before prepositions. It doesn't mean that you have to use prepositions after מאשר! מאשר can be written also when there is no preposition in your sentence. Do you get me?


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