# Persian: mikonid/in?



## Haji Firouz

Is it true that the verb suffix ید  /id/ (2nd person, plural) has the "in" equivalent in colloquial form?
E.g.  شما صحبت می کنید  /shomaa sohbat mi konID/ (lit) =
شما صحبت می کنین /shomaa sohbat mi konIN/ (coll).

Thanks!


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## kloie

Yes it's true, and also in colloquial the word order changes too in many cases.


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

Haji Firouz said:


> شما صحبت می کنین /shomaa sohbat mi konIN/ (coll).


شما صحبت می کنین is not correct, sometimes people use the wrong form of verbs.
Normally, when you want to say colloquial form, so first you must use تو instead of شما as this pronoun is formal.
and the verb will be  می کنی...so we say  
تو صحبت می کنی  
The other way is 50/50!!! it means you want to show your respect but you are using the verb in informal manner
شما صحبت می کنی
and literary form is:
شما صحبت می کنید


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## fdb

Eastern Ludicrous Writer said:


> Normally, when you want to say colloquial form, so first you must use تو instead of شما as this pronoun is formal.


These are two separate issues: formal vs colloquial and polite vs familiar. “to” is familiar and “shomaa” is polite. Both are used in formal and in colloquial speech. The verb ending for the 2nd person plural is -iid (Eastern Persian -eed) in classical and formal Persian, but it is -iin in most colloquial Persian dialects.


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## Haji Firouz

Thank you for your beautiful messages!

So, to recap, we use /shomaa/ to politely address another person.
If my source is correct, /shomaa/ can be used to politely address a group of people, too, although in this case, to avoid ambiguity, we may also say: شماها /shomaahaa/. *Does anyone actually ever use the /shomaahaa/ form? *To me it sounds a bit awkward but I haven't really developed a "musical ear" in Persian yet. 

I am wondering* if there is any informal variant of /shomaa/ to address a group of people*.*

*In other languages, for example Spanish, this would be the distinction between *vosotros *(plural you, informal) vs. *usted* (single you, formal). In English, on the contrary, there is no such distinction. We'd invariably use "you" for a person or a group, both formally and informally.

Best regards,
Ana-María


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

fdb said:


> but it is -iin in most colloquial Persian dialects


Do you mean, in Farsi we sayشما صحبت می کنین  in verb inflection for colloquial Persian dialects?


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

Haji Firouz said:


> Thank you for your beautiful messages!
> 
> So, to recap, we use /shomaa/ to politely address another person.
> If my source is correct, /shomaa/ can be used to politely address a group of people, too, although in this case, to avoid ambiguity, we may also say: شماها /shomaahaa/. *Does anyone actually ever use the /shomaahaa/ form? *To me it sounds a bit awkward but I haven't really developed a "musical ear" in Persian yet.
> 
> I am wondering* if there is any informal variant of /shomaa/ to address a group of people*.*


شماها is correct way to call people present in front of you ( you want to emphasis on all of the people you are talking with them). You can find many samples in Farsi poems.


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## fdb

Eastern Ludicrous Writer said:


> Do you mean, in Farsi we sayشما صحبت می کنین  in verb inflection for colloquial Persian dialects?


I know it from Afghanistan.


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## PersoLatin

Haji Firouz said:


> In English, on the contrary, there is no such distinction. We'd invariably use "you" for a person or a group, both formally and informally.


In informal English equivalent to شماها is "you lot", and in the same way in east London you'd hear "yous" (i.e. you plus s)


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## kloie

PersoLatin said:


> In informal English equivalent to شماها is "you lot", and in the same way in east London you'd hear "yous" (i.e. you plus s)


Here in texas we say you all.


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

fdb said:


> I know it from Afghanistan.


In Farsi, as I know, some people say that :  شماها ( نه شما) صحبت می کنین  or چرا شما ها صحبت می کنین. In this form of verb, for making it easier to pronounce, نید has been changed to نین but again as far as I know it has not been mentioned in Farsi grammar yet.


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

Haji Firouz said:


> So, to recap, we use /shomaa/ to politely address another person.
> If my source is correct, /shomaa/ can be used to politely address a group of people, too


Shoma as you mentioned, can be used to address another person politely AND can be used to address group of people as well.
For example, tv presenter after his/her program says شما را به خدا میسپارم. Means you all are watching me now! 
OR شما باید نامه ای به پدرتان بنویسید Now politely address another person.


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## Haji Firouz

Thanks you lot so much!  


Eastern Ludicrous Writer said:


> The other way is 50/50!!! it means you want to show your respect but you are using the verb in informal manner



I have a doubt, still.

I'd like to use the verb in the informal manner (/mikonid/), I can't use /shomaa/ because it's too formal (correct?), and I can't use /to/ either because I'm addressing a* group of people*, so what pronoun should I use, in this case?

Thank you!


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## Haji Firouz

I have an update. According to this source, the meaning of /shomaa/ is:



> you (formal singular)
> you (formal and *informal plural*)


...which means it's not awkward to say /shomaa mikonin/, because we are using the informal /shomaa/ here to match the informal verb ending. 

The main point here is that /shomaa/ is not always formal, as I previously thought.


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## Derakhshan

It's not incorrect, but شماها is more emphatic and explicitly plural.

Note there is also ماها "we all", since ما alone can actually be a formal/polite singular pronoun, like شما.


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## Eastern Ludicrous Writer

Haji Firouz said:


> Thanks you lot so much!
> 
> 
> I have a doubt, still.
> 
> I'd like to use the verb in the informal manner (/mikonid/), I can't use /shomaa/ because it's too formal (correct?), and I can't use /to/ either because I'm addressing a* group of people*, so what pronoun should I use, in this case?
> 
> Thank you!


I think the best pronoun is Shomaha, شماها! But it will helpful, if you give sample of a sentence you want to say.
I suggest try to type Farsi when you refer to a Farsi word. May be a little hard but improve your Farsi.


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