# Masculine and feminine nouns



## Cosmas1

"Dear forum users,

I am writing to inquire about the use of masculine and feminine nouns in certain situations where using a femine might sound awkward.

For example, the word for superintendent/ doorman is "                θυρωρός" but if the person being referred to is a woman would we call her a "θυρορινα"? or would we just say θυρωρός?  In which case we would refer to her as "η θυρωρὀς".

Similarly, the word for real estate agent is "                μεσίτης" but if the person being referred to is a woman would we call her a "μεσἰτρια"?  Does anyone agree with me that the feminine version of these terms sound awkward and that maybe it is okay to just use the masculine version of the word?

Thank you.


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## orthophron

In most of nouns denoting occupation, normally the masculine ending is applied (e.g. η φιλόλογος) when they refer to a female person. Colloquially, some of them can have a feminine ending (e.g. η θυρωρός or η θυρωρίνα, η μεσίτης or η μεσίτρα/μεσίτρια). There are nouns however where one can see differentiation in ending, depending on the gender of the person they refer to (e.g. ο εργάτης, η εργάτρια).


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## Cosmas1

Thank you for the example.  Do you agree that "εργατρια", "θυρορινα" sound awkward or is it my ear?


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## thankful1

"Θυρωρίνα" may be rather peculiar. "Η θυρωρός" is much more common. However, "εργάτρια" is perfectly normal and the only word to refer to a female worker. It would not be right to say "η εργάτης".


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## Δημήτρης

It really depends in the word.
Εργάτρια or μεσίτρια are perfectly normal, but δικαστίνα or βουλευτίνα sound awkward and less used for example.

I wonder why we don't say δικάστρια and βουλεύτρια... much better than the -ινα versions.


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## zouzounaki

Δημήτρη, τι λες για την "γιάτραινα" (εάν γράφεται έτσι); Ίσως ως ξένη έκανα και δικό μου κανόνα και άμα θέλω να αναφερθώ στον "Γιάννο" και τη γυναίκα του λέω: "ο Γιάννος και η Γιάνναινα", "ο Πανίκκος και η Πανίκκαινα", χεχε, και όλοι καταλαβαίνουν. Μάλλον γενικοποίησα τον κανόνα...

Αν δεν σας ήταν χρήσιμο, τουάχιστον ελπίζω να γελάσατε.

Ζουζουνάκι.


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## Δημήτρης

Η γιατραινα ακούγεται αρκετά στην Κύπρο, λόγω της διαλέκτου (είναι πιο ανεκτική σε τέτοιους τύπους). Στην "επίσημη" γλωσσά όμως δεν νομίζω να ταιριάζει. 

Ο κάνονας σου ταιριάζει στην Κυπριακη διάλεκτο πάντως.
Βεβαία, άλλο Γιάννενα και άλλο Γιάννα (>Ιωάννα>Ιωάννης)


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## zouzounaki

Σίγουρα δεν ταιρειάζει σε "σωστά Ελληνικά". 

Δημήτρη, μα είσαι μόνο 17 και ξέρεις τόσα πολλά;


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## Cosmas1

That's interesting. What would we say in the case of an architect or a doctor?

How would we handle the following:

 Ἡ κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο γιατρὀς μου.῾ 
"H κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο αρχιτεκτονας μου." 
 Ἡ κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο μηχανικὀς μου.῾ 
"H κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο λογιστης μου."

There doesn't seem to be a feminine for these professions.

Thank you.


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## Δημήτρης

Cosmas1 said:


> That's interesting. What would we say in the case of an architect or a doctor?
> 
> How would we handle the following:
> 
> Ἡ κυρια Ι*ω*άννα εἰναι ο γιατρὀς μου.῾
> "H κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο αρχιτεκτονας μου."
> Ἡ κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο μηχανικὀς μου.῾
> "H κυρια Ιοαννα εἰναι ο λογιστης μου."
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a feminine for these professions.
> 
> Thank you.


γιατρίνα (very colloquial)
αρχιτεκτόνισσα (not awkward, just not-so-common)
μηχανικίνα (very uncommon and awkward)
λογίστρια (very common and natural)

Mr Sarantakos on his site hosts some articles on problematic feminine nouns (professional and plain ones)
http://www.sarantakos.com/language/gynaike.html
http://www.sarantakos.com/language/methodes.html


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## Cosmas1

Thank you Dimitri. That is very helpful.


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## Cosmas1

Δημητρη,
I am coming back to this thread to just clarify. Would one say "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι η γιατρός μου." or "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι o γιατρός μου?"

Thank you.


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## Δημήτρης

Cosmas1 said:


> Δημητρη,
> I am coming back to this thread to just clarify. Would one say "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι η γιατρός μου." or "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι o γιατρός μου?"
> 
> Thank you.



"*η* γιατρός". 
To be honest, sometimes people confuse the articles of feminine (like ψήφος) or masculine-used-as-feminine (like γιατρος in this context) words ending in -ος and use the masculine article, but is not yet accepted by the majority of the speakers. (I believe it will become though, eventually)


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## orthophron

Cosmas1 said:


> Would one say "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι η γιατρός μου." or "Η Κα. Οικονομιδου είναι o γιατρός μου?"


Hi!
Both could be correct. Let's answer the question: "Ποιος είναι ο γιατρός σας;" (_Unless we know the sex we ask with "ποιος_"). The answer would be "Ο γιατρός μου είναι η κ. Οικονομίδου" or: "Ο γιατρός μου είναι ένα μήλο την ημέρα" (_metaphor_). What I wish to point out is that subject and complement, being always in the same case of course, are not necessarily in the same gender or number. e.g. Τα παιδιά (_neut. pl.)_ είναι ευτυχία (_fem. sing.)._


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