# Dawn, and the Pleiades, before him .... [Milton]



## Casquilho

Hi fellows,
please verify mine Latin version for this passage from Milton:

...the grey	
Dawn, and the Pleiades, before him [the Sun] danced,	
Shedding sweet influence.
(_Paradise Lost_, Book VII, v. 373-375)

_Caesia Aurora et Vergiliae ante Solem mouerunt se, 
dulcem influentiam demittendo.
_
Is there some Latin verb for "to dance", other than _mouere [se]_? One of classical usage, perhaps?


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## relativamente

Yes. there is the verb salto


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## relativamente

I think it is better to use demittentes instead of demittendo

So the Pleiades are called Vergiliae? Are you sure?


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## Casquilho

relativamente said:


> I think it is better to use demittentes instead of demittendo



But is _demittendo_ wrong?



relativamente said:


> So the Pleiades are called Vergiliae? Are you sure?



The Lewis&Short dictionary says they are in classical Latin, and gives these sources:
Cic. N. D. poët. 2, 44, 112; Auct. B. Afr. 47; _Isid. Orig. 3, 70_; cf. _Fest. p. 372_ Müll.

By the way I'm not acquainted with those abbreviations. But, as I wasn't quite sure, I purchased examples of Pleiades in Ovid, and I've found one at least:

neque enim clipei caelamina novit,
Oceanum et terras cumque alto sidera caelo
Pleiadasque Hyadasque inmunemque aequoris Arcton
diversosque orbes nitidumque Orionis ensem.
(_Fasti _V. lxxxii-lxxxv.)

But there is no entrance for _Pleiadas _in Lewis&Short or William Whitaker either. So, I'm not certain, I expect you may help me with this.


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## Casquilho

relativamente said:


> Yes. there is the verb salto



_salto _is reflexive, like _mouere_​?


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## relativamente

quote
But is _demittendo_ wrong?
unquote


El gerundio sirve para declinar el infinitivo, que es un nombre en nominativo. Se usa por ejemplo en genitivo "ars canendi" acusativo con preposición " ad canendum aptus".También en otros casos como el ablativo  con un sentido similar al gerundio de las lenguas romances con verbos de sentido pasivo "natura parendo vincitur" Suena a algo medieval pero no sé con seguridad
En esta frase no me parece correcto usar el gerundio.


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## Quiviscumque

Casquilho said:


> But there is no entrance for _Pleiadas _in Lewis&Short or William Whitaker either. So, I'm not certain, I expect you may help me with this.



Try "Pleias"


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## Casquilho

New try:

_Caesia Aurora et Vergiliae [Pleiades] ante Solem saltauerunt,
dulcem influentiam demittentes.

_What do you think of it? Would _Vergiliaeque _be better, more classic?


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## J.F. de TROYES

Casquilho said:


> New try:
> 
> _Caesia Aurora et Vergiliae [Pleiades] ante Solem saltauerunt,
> dulcem influentiam demittentes.
> 
> _What do you think of it? Would _Vergiliaeque _be better, more classic?



I think using Pleiades is the best , as they are quoted by P. Ovidius, but also Virgilius,  and ... Milton.


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## J.F. de TROYES

relativamente said:


> quote
> But is _demittendo_ wrong?
> unquote
> 
> 
> El gerundio sirve para declinar el infinitivo, que es un nombre en nominativo. Se usa por ejemplo en genitivo "ars canendi" acusativo con preposición " ad canendum aptus".También en otros casos como el ablativo  con un sentido similar al gerundio de las lenguas romances con verbos de sentido pasivo "natura parendo vincitur" Suena a algo medieval pero no sé con seguridad
> En esta frase no me parece correcto usar el gerundio.



De acuerdo. Se usa el ablativo para expresar un medio,  como tus ejemplos lo enseñan.


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## Casquilho

J.F. de TROYES said:


> De acuerdo. Se usa el ablativo para expresar un medio,  como tus ejemplos lo enseñan.



Let me see if I understand it:

_delectando, pariterque monendo_ 

por deleitar/enquanto deleita/deleitando, valendo-se do deleite e ao mesmo tempo por ensinar/enquanto ensina/ensinando, valendo-se do ensino

by delighting/while delights/delighting, making use of the delight and at the same time by teaching/while teaches/teaching, making use of the teaching

So, if I want to translate the "gerúndio" of Pt or "present continuous" of English, without the ablative idea of way by which, "medio", the Latin equivalent is the present participle, and not the abletive gerund?

Just for curiosity: what does _natura parendo vincitur _​mean?


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