# surname Τσιόγκας



## atsiong1

Hello all,

I have been trying to find the meaning or origin of my family's last name, written Τσιόγκας in Greek.  My family is from a small mountain village in Kozani, less than 100 kilometers from the Greek border with Albania.  Nevertheless, a preliminary search online shows Greeks with the surnames Τσιόγκας, Τσιώγκας and Τσόγκας living in all different regions in Greece.  The former Greek parliament member Δημήτρης Τσιόγκας appears quite a bit as well.  My family has told me that our last name has no literal meaning in Greek, which makes me wonder if it comes from a foreign root (Turkish, Albanian, etc.) which from what I understand is not uncommon especially in Macedonia. 

Does anyone have any clue as to the origin of our last name?  I really appreciate your help, especially since my Greek language skills are very poor!

atsiong1


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## apmoy70

Your family's name *«Τσιόγκας»* (often *«Τσόγκας»*) is *«Βλάχικο»* (i.e. Aromanian) and comes from the Turkish çoğ --> _thief_; don't take it literally, _thieves_ were called the Greek anti-Ottoman insurgents by the Ottoman Turks --> Klephts during the Greek War of Independence


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## atsiong1

Hi apmoy70!

Thanks for your response.  There were Vlachs in my family's village, certainly, and online we can find records of Vlachs named *Τσιόγκας*, so clearly Vlachs are using it.  However, just because a Vlach may be named Γιώργος that does not make Γιώργος a Vlach name!  What I mean by this is that the origin of the name is still in question.  

As for your mention of the Turkish word "çoğ" - I have searched for this word in Turkish dictionaries and am not able to find it.  It appears that "çoğ" is an abbreviation for a Turkish word meaning "usually", but I've been unable to find it in any other context.  Maybe someone with some understanding of Turkish can help us out?  I would love it if this turned out to be the origin of our name! 

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

atsiong1


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## apmoy70

atsiong1 said:


> Hi apmoy70!
> 
> Thanks for your response.  There were Vlachs in my family's village, certainly, and online we can find records of Vlachs named *Τσιόγκας*, so clearly Vlachs are using it.  However, just because a Vlach may be named Γιώργος that does not make Γιώργος a Vlach name!  What I mean by this is that the origin of the name is still in question.
> 
> As for your mention of the Turkish word "çoğ" - I have searched for this word in Turkish dictionaries and am not able to find it.  It appears that "çoğ" is an abbreviation for a Turkish word meaning "usually", but I've been unable to find it in any other context.  Maybe someone with some understanding of Turkish can help us out?  I would love it if this turned out to be the origin of our name!
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to respond!
> 
> atsiong1


Hi atsiong1

I'm afraid I can't help you either, I can't speak Turkish.
Perhaps it's an Ottoman idiomatic word, Rallino can help us I think (I sent him a PM)


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## Rallino

Hello,

yes, I got the PM. 

Here's a quick summary of my little research:


_çoğ _doesn't exist in standard Turkish or Ottoman. And it's not a surname I've heard of around here,
_çoğ_ is common in many dialects, and it stands for the word _çok _(very, a lot, many, much, abundant). "Çok" is not a known surname, either.
_çoğ_ also seems to mean _çocuk _(child, kid, infant) in certain dialects. Even though I've never heard "çocuk" as a surname, it wouldn't surprise me.

And a random speculation:


The existence of iota (Τσ*ι*όγκας) has drawn my attention. If it really came from _çok_ why wasn't it simply _τσογκ_? I understand that there is also the iota-less _τσογκας, _but still where does the iota come from? Which makes me wonder: Is it possible that perhaps it didn't come from _çok_, but rather _çök_ (settling, installing, ducking, crouching)? Just a random thought.
When I first read this thread and saw _τσογκας, _I immediately thought of _çok az _(very little). But this is probably just a coincidence, as the -ας in the end is probably a Greek suffix.
 


> Your family's name *«Τσιόγκας»* (often *«Τσόγκας»*) is *«Βλάχικο»* (i.e. Aromanian) and comes from the Turkish çoğ --> _thief_; don't take it literally, _thieves_ were called the Greek anti-Ottoman insurgents by the Ottoman Turks --> Klephts during the Greek War of Independence


This is most interesting! I've looked in a number of dictionaries, I can't find the meaning of "thief" anywhere.
Çoğ, çog and_ çoh_ all seem to be variations of the now-standard *çok*, and it doesn't seem to mean anything other than _many, much_, etc.
Perhaps it was a local word in Balkans?
Or perhaps all the thieves were little kids, so it came from the _çoğ_ meaning _çocuk_? 


Anyhow, I'm sorry not to have been able to show a satisfying etymology, but that's all I could come up with.


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## atsiong1

Thank you, apmoy70 and Rallino!

This is all very interesting.  As you may know, s+i in the Northern dialects will make a "sh", resulting in the T+s+i being pronounced like an English "ch." 

My family pronounces our last name something like "Chongas" (approximation in English spelling conventions), which I guess would make it similar to the Turkish "ç."  I would expect Greeks in other parts of the country to pronounce the "ts" though.

I'll keep up my search!  Let me know if you come across anything interesting 

Thank you both
atsiong1







Rallino said:


> Hello,
> 
> yes, I got the PM.
> 
> Here's a quick summary of my little research:
> 
> 
> _çoğ _doesn't exist in standard Turkish or Ottoman. And it's not a surname I've heard of around here,
> _çoğ_ is common in many dialects, and it stands for the word _çok _(very, a lot, many, much, abundant). "Çok" is not a known surname, either.
> _çoğ_ also seems to mean _çocuk _(child, kid, infant) in certain dialects. Even though I've never heard "çocuk" as a surname, it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> And a random speculation:
> 
> 
> The existence of iota (Τσ*ι*όγκας) has drawn my attention. If it really came from _çok_ why wasn't it simply _τσογκ_? I understand that there is also the iota-less _τσογκας, _but still where does the iota come from? Which makes me wonder: Is it possible that perhaps it didn't come from _çok_, but rather _çök_ (ducking, crouching, crumbling, coming down)? Just a random thought.
> When I first read this thread and saw _τσογκας, _I immediately thought of _çok az _(very little). But this is probably just a coincidence, as the -ας in the end is probably a Greek suffix.
> 
> 
> This is most interesting! I've looked in a number of dictionaries, I can't find the meaning of "thief" anywhere.
> Çoğ, çog and_ çoh_ all seem to be variations of the now-standard *çok*, and it doesn't seem to mean anything other than _many, much_, etc.
> Perhaps it was a local word in Balkans?
> Or perhaps all the thieves were little kids, so it came from the _çoğ_ meaning _çocuk_?
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I'm sorry not to have been able to show a satisfying etymology, but that's all I could come up with.


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## shawnee

The çok derivation is supported by a little reference on such matters, which took me all day to find, (A. Kalantzakos - Ονόματα, Επώνυμα , Παρατσούκλια). I don't think the man was a linguist as such, but it seems knowledgeable. The OP can rest assured that he does share the name with a hero of the Greek revolution, if my memory serves me right, and a French Tennis player Tsonga, who just beat Djokovic somewhere.


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## sotos

Rallino said:


> _çoğ_ also seems to mean _çocuk _(child, kid, infant) in certain dialects. Even though I've never heard "çocuk" as a surname, it wouldn't surprise me.
> Çoğ, çog and_ çoh_ all seem to be variations of the now-standard *çok*, and it doesn't seem to mean anything other than _many, much_, etc.


çocuk does produce the surname "Κουτσούκος, Κουτσίκος" in Greece. The meaning of "many, much" could possibly explain the surname in question, assuming a metaphore. Some persons are characterized/nick-named "πολύς" with the sense of "μάγκας". Altough I am not aware of a surname "Πολύς", I know similar ones, like "Megas" (big). On the other hand, Tsiogas may be related to the surname Zogou that is found in Albania (but still can be aromanian or turkish)


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## apmoy70

shawnee said:


> The çok derivation is supported by a little reference on such matters, which took me all day to find, (A. Kalantzakos - Ονόματα, Επώνυμα , Παρατσούκλια). I don't think the man was a linguist as such, but it seems knowledgeable. The OP can rest assured that he does share the name with a hero of the Greek revolution, if my memory serves me right, and a French Tennis player Tsonga, who just beat Djokovic somewhere.


My source was THIS..and I find it weird that here it clearly states that it's from the (supposed) Turkish word çoğ, _κλέφτης_, and that it belongs to [ΣΗΤΡ] which is the text corpus known as _Prof. Triantafyllidis' Notes..._and yet it cannot be verified


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## atsiong1

shawnee said:


> The çok derivation is supported by a little reference on such matters, which took me all day to find, (A. Kalantzakos - Ονόματα, Επώνυμα , Παρατσούκλια). I don't think the man was a linguist as such, but it seems knowledgeable. The OP can rest assured that he does share the name with a hero of the Greek revolution, if my memory serves me right, and a French Tennis player Tsonga, who just beat Djokovic somewhere.



Hi shawnee,

Do you by any chance have an internet link for your source?  Or do you own the book?  Before I started this thread I had already come across what I believe are most of the sources being drawn upon here (historical references to Vlachs named Tsiogas, the Greek surname blog that apmoy70 cites, and a page suggesting that Tsogas is related to the Albanian Zogou).  I hadn't come across your source though, I'd be interested to see it!

Also, glad to hear we are a people victorious both in war and tennis  LOL

atsiong1


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## shawnee

I own the book. It is nowhere near as authoritative as the other sources cited as I had indicated. I doubt very much it is available on the internet.


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## shawnee

apmoy70 said:


> My source was THIS..and I find it weird that here it clearly states that it's from the (supposed) Turkish word çoğ, _κλέφτης_, and that it belongs to [ΣΗΤΡ] which is the text corpus known as _Prof. Triantafyllidis' Notes..._and yet it cannot be verified


Thank you for those sources apmoy70. I had consulted Triandaphylidis Τα Οικογενειακά Μας Ονόματα at some stage, but do not recal his mention of the name in question. atsion1 might also have a look at Tombaidis Ελληνικά Επώνυμα Τούρκικης Προέλευσης, but I do not recall seing it there either.
PS What does [ΣΗΤΡ] mean?


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## atsiong1

Would you mind typing the relevant quote concerning the name here?   No matter if it's in Greek.

atsiong1


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## apmoy70

shawnee said:


> Thank you for those sources apmoy70. I had consulted Triandaphylidis Τα Οικογενειακά Μας Ονόματα at some stage, but do not recal his mention of the name in question. atsion1 might also have a look at Tombaidis Ελληνικά Επώνυμα Τούρκικης Προέλευσης, but I do not recall seing it there either.
> PS What does [ΣΗΤΡ] mean?


You are welcome. ΣΗΤΡ is the abbreviation of *ΣΗ*μειώσεις *ΤΡ*ιανταφυλλίδου (Τriantafyllidis' text corpus)


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## shawnee

atsiong1 said:


> Would you mind typing the relevant quote concerning the name here?   No matter if it's in Greek.
> 
> atsiong1


The name appears as, «Τσόκας > τουρκ. çok - πάρα πολύ». I take it to be a version of the same, but it could be argued that it is not. In my parts it would be «Τσόγκας».


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## atsiong1

shawnee said:


> The name appears as, «Τσόκας > τουρκ. çok - πάρα πολύ». I take it to be a version of the same, but it could be argued that it is not. In my parts it would be «Τσόγκας».



Thank you, shawnee.  Yes, perhaps it is the same name!  

Apmoy70, I wonder if the confusion could be cleared up if we consulted the original document.  Do you know if the text corpus in question is part of Triantaphyllidis' Greek Grammar?  Or is it a separate document entirely?  

Thank you all for your contributions, I'm learning a lot.

atsiong1


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