# pédé / PD / pédéraste



## nickbuddy

Moderator Note: several threads on _pédé / pédéraste / PD _have been merged into this one. 
 
Bonjour!

I was watching the French movie called _"The Man I Love (L'Homme que j'aime)"_, and there is a scene where a main character Lucard (a life guard at the pool) asks Martin if he's gay. 

To me, it sounded like 
*"Te-pe-de??" *​I know it's wrong to "out" somebody, and this might not be an appropriate question, but I am curious how the French people say it, or even how to write out correctly.

If you could help, I'd totally appreciate it.
If you need a context, it goes like this (PS: Sorry about my misspelling in advance. I'm not really good at French....);
Lucard: "Je peux ta pose un dernier question. Ton respond ah.."​Martin: "Ce quoi la question?"​Lucard: "_TE-PE-DE_?? (???)"​Thanks for your help in advance!


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## Broff

I believe it is written as follow:

T'es Pédé?


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## Kelly B

I'm not a native, but I think that this shortened version is t'es (un) pédé ?
The longer version would be
Tu es un pédéraste ?


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## david314

Perhaps: _Tu es *pédé*_? (pejorative -_queer, fag_)


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## sHak.

That's it!



> T'es Pédé?



Unformal way of saying homosexual.

Would be the english way of saying "Are you gay?"


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## nickbuddy

Wow, Merci beaucoup tout le monde pour respondre rapidamente!!!! 

I'd really appreciate it!


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## chumoé

pédé, tapette, fifi, gay, homo; they're all words (some offensive) to describe a homosexual male.


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## tres_gay

Kelly B said:


> Tu es un pédérast?


This is like asking "Are you a pederast?" Well, its not quite that impolite, but it is a very archaic way of saying it. <<Est-ce que vous êtes homosexuel?>> would be the way to go if you were looking for a more formal way to say it. 

Also, I'd like to note that while outing someone is extremely rude, asking them about their sexuality need not be, provided it is done with tact.


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## vanagreg

_pédéraste_ refers more to a homosexual who prefers young men.

"T'es pédé" is coloquial. It's spoken language. "T'es" stands for "Tu es", and "pédé" is more rude than "gay". In French "gay" is also used now, it's more polite.

I'd translate "pédé" by "fag". 

_Are you a fag?_


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## leturc

t'es pédé is offensive, however if you are joking with friends it is okay.
A polite but unformal way of saying it would be
T'es homo ?
T'es gay ?
Pédé= faggot


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## Malcoha

They now usually describe themselves as "gay" (in french!), "pédé" is nowadays less offensive than it was some time ago (obviously it depends on the way you say it!). It's often used when joking, also with/between gay people.

edit: agree with Leturc


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## Hulalessar

Camille Saint-Saëns disait: "Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste!" 

Qu'est-ce que ça voulait dire au 19ème siècle?

Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire aujourd'hui?


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## cocorico

Homosexuel, c'est celui qui aime ceux du même sexe. Pédéraste, c'est celui qui aime les jeunes garçons.


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## dewsy

Yes a pederast is someone who prefers boys. It was obviously more acceptable in the 19th century....


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## cocorico

I do not think that it was more acceptable in the 19th century.


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## CDHMontpellier

True, a pederast specifically goes for boys, whereas a pedophile can prefer boys and/or girls... and pederasty does have more of a strong sexual act in its meaning.  So I should have said, "I'm not a homosexual, I just bugger boys".


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## GEmatt

Hulalessar said:


> Camille Saint-Saëns disait: "Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste!"
> 
> Qu'est-ce que ça voulait dire au 19ème siècle?


Taking a stab in the dark (no pun intended), is it possible that in the 19th century, "homosexual" was distinctly pejorative, whereas "pederast" might have been the preferred term, in some circles during the Romantic period? It might have been perceived as noble, drawing on accounts of the practice in Antiquity. Just conjecture, there...


> Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire aujourd'hui?


Probably not a great deal. It was only a few years back that some innocent doctors were being heckled and threatened by members of the public who failed to see any difference between a _ped*iatrician*_ and a _ped*ophile*_, so _pederast_ would probably baffle many people, too.


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## CDHMontpellier

The word "homosexual" didn't even exist before the later decades of the 19th century (whereas the concept, of course, has been around forever).


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## GEmatt

CDHMontpellier said:


> The word "homosexual" didn't even exist before the later decades of the 19th century...


Good point. 

The question is probably more what such a statement meant during Saint-Saëns' day, late nineteenth/early twentieth century.

I don't know when in his life he made that remark, but it looks as though he would have been middle- to old-aged. The Romantic period is basically over, and new-fangled terms like "homosexual" and "sexual invert" are being coined and bandied about (courtesy of Messrs Krafft-Ebing, Freud and others); seen in this light, the remark could be read as an affirmation of the "old" values and "virtues", and a dismissal of the modern.

I think I've done enough guesswork for one day.


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## Budgie

Just one thing to add... words like pedophile […] are AE spelling, spelled paedophile, […] in BE...


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## Hulalessar

Since most of the replies are in English I'll carry on in that language...

Further research indicates that the word _pédéraste_ can be (but is not always) a synonym for _homosexuel_ (Sartre refers to Rimbaud as a _pédéraste_) which is what I thought and which was what puzzled me about Saint-Saëns' remark. It seems that either he was saying "I am not a homosexual, I'm a homosexual" which is a bit of nonsense and unlikely; or he was saying "I don't fancy men, I fancy boys" which is surprising. Perhaps, as has been suggested, he was implying that all his relationships/feelings were Platonic.


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## Outsider

Hulalessar said:


> Camille Saint-Saëns disait: "Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste!"
> 
> Qu'est-ce que ça voulait dire au 19ème siècle?
> 
> Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire aujourd'hui?


Je trouve pratiquement impossible de savoir ce qu'il voulait dire par ça, sans savoir plus sur le contexte où il l'a dit.

Peut-être il n'aimait pas le mot « homosexuel », qui était récent à cette époque. Peut-être il croyait qu'elle mettait l'accent trop dans l'aspect sexuel de la relation...


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## Hulalessar

J'ai trouvé le suivant:

deux autres compositeurs eurent des attirances homosexuelles : il s'agit de Camille Saint-Saëns qui déjà d'un âge mur, fera un certain nombre de voyages au Maghreb pour y trouver de quoi soulager sa libido...(à un importun qui l'avait taxé d'homosexualité, Saint-Saëns aurait en outre répliqué : _« Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste__»_) 

Après tout c'était peut-être le cas qu'il préférait des garçons.


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## philipmay

I was told by a French friend that the slang word for homosexual is "PD," which is short for pédéraste.

Can anyone here confirm this?

Merci.


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## Cath.S.

philipmay said:


> I was told by a French friend that the slang word for homosexual is "PD," which is short for pédéraste.
> 
> Can anyone here confirm this?


That's probably correct, even though we do not use the word _pédéraste_ any more (or then, very old people still might).

I would say that Camille Saint-Saëns meant that he would not have a love relationship with any man his own age, or older than himself, only with younger males, like many Greeks did in the times of Socrates.


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## Aeg45

philipmay said:


> I was told by a French friend that the slang word for homosexual is "PD," which is short for pédéraste.
> 
> Can anyone here confirm this?



I've heard similar. I've never heard "PD" but I know I heard shortened versions of "pédéraste" used as slang words for homosexual, such as "pédé" (which would be pronounced the same as "PD") and "rasdep" (the latter of which i found in a book).
Question for the francophones...as these slang words are based on pédéraste (or maybe pédophile?), are they derogatory?


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## doinel

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pédé 
Une certaine littérature française de la première moitié du XXème a plus ou moins cautionné l'attirance pour les jeunes gens pour rester polie et ne jetait pas la pierre à la pédérastie, il me semble....


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## Cath.S.

_PD _is pronounded _pédé._ They are one and the same word, two different spellings.
_Pédé _is most likely not based on _pédophile_, since the latter is a recent term, at least in the general public's vocabulary.
It is, at any rate, offensive. All those words are.
_Homosexuel _is, or used to be, neutral, and _gai/y_ is gaining ground as neutral, non-judgemental terms.


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## timpeac

egueule said:


> I would say that Camille Saint-Saëns meant that he would not have a love relationship with any man his own age, or older than himself, only with younger males, like many Greeks did in the times of Socrates.


This was exactly what occurred to me on reading through this thread. A translation is difficult - and also depends on how much we would be trying to respect the language and culture of the times. I suspect, although do not know, that both "homosexuel" and "pédéraste" would, at the time the quote is from, have evoked the same impression on French ears as "homosexual" and "pederast" would on English ones whatever that impression might have been - and so I'd probably translate it word for word! (It's also a nice get-out, no?). As a gloss I think very much like Egueule is suggesting and I like an earlier suggestion - "I'm not homosexual (with that defining the whole life-style, indeed - was he married?), I just bugger boys" (but I wouldn't understand by that prepubescent boys, although young, yes).


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## Alexandre8

J'ai trouvé cette citation sur Wikipedia tout a l'heure, je pense qu'il explique quelque chose.

Il s'agit de Roger Peyrefitte, un écrivain controversé du 20eme siècle. Il écrivit "les amitiés particulières".

Peyrefitte s'est toujours proclamé pédéraste plutôt qu'homosexuel : « J'aime les agneaux, disait-il, pas les moutons ».


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## Kalooza

Whilst I think that a lot of pertinent comments have been made in this thread, maybe you should also consider the possibility that Saint-Saëns was simply being a little bit flippant.


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## philipmay

I'm debating with some people on if the term PD is insulting to gays.

I have a hard time understanding how calling someone who is gay a «pédéraste» could be anything other than insulting.

Anyone care to give me their opinions?  It would be greatly appreciated.  I'm in a debate on another web site.


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## forgot

It is insulting. It may sometimes be used as a reference to Greek past "traditions", yet it is mostly insulting. The word which can, these days, be used without too much trouble in France is the English "gay" pronounced in the French way "gai".


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## wildan1

Just like _fag/faggot/queer_ in English,_ pédé_ seems to be an "insider/outsider word", just like the "n-word" is in the US. 

If you are one, you can call someone else that word as a joke. If you're not an insider, it's a big insult.


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## seanos

I realise this is a true necro-post, but I would be very cautious translating _pédé_ by the word “faggot”. It’s all very context-dependent of course, but the relative weights of these words will never line up.

I don’t think it would be quite as radical for a French speaker to say _Je suis pédé_ as it would for an English speaker (particularly an American) to say “I’m a faggot”. For _some_ groups of people a more appropriate translation might be “I’m queer” (given the 90s Queer Nation attempt at reclaiming the word), but for others “queer” remains entirely offensive.


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## Kecha

There's quite a difference between "Je suis pédé" and "T'es pédé ?" or "Espèce de pédé !". As stated by wildan1 in #34, there's a shift depending on whether you're an insider or not, or how well you know the person.
I can call myself or a friend a "bitch" as a joke, but if I call a stranger "bitch", she'll throw a beer at my face.

So you'll probably need different words to translate "pédé" depending on tone and context and level of perceived or intended offensiveness.


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## l'hirondelle

As a 'pédé' myself, I consider it to be a re-appropriated term. We use it among ourselves to regain power over offensive, negative words (and also sometimes to use a francophone term rather than the anglophone 'gay'). It sometimes denotes a certain style of queerness (left-wing, alternative), together with 'gouine' (dyke). But I would be offended if an outsider used the term, to be honest. Just like wildan1 says, it's an insider/outsider thing.

Please don't use it among your friends, unless you are all gay @leturc (reply n° 10). Using offensive terminology to tease your friends sends the message to closeted people that it's not safe to come out. One of your friends could be in the closet.


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## Keith Bradford

I think our analysis of the precise distinctions may be a little precious.  Nowadays, alas, in the mouth of a drunk-and-sitting-in-the-gutter French speaker, _sale pédé_ is a go-to insult, the equivalent of_ fucking queer,_ and will be applied to anyone gay, transgendered, cross-dressing or otherwise visibly slightly different from the norm. I know whereof I speak.


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