# Norwegian: øve inn / øve opp



## littlepond

Hei hei alle sammen!

I am having a bit of a difficulty in understanding "øve inn" and "øve opp". "øve" itself, I understand, means to practise or to perform. Hence the online ordbok gives examples such as "øve seg på ski", which I understand to mean to practise skiing (oneself). Then the dictionary gives "øve inn en ny sang", which, I guess, means "to rehearse a new song". But why not just "øve"? And why "opp" in examples such as "øve seg opp til å bli blant de beste". Why not again just "øve"?

What different nuances do the extra "inn" or "opp" convey?

Thanks in advance!


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## myšlenka

Hi littlepond

The extra meaning that is added by _opp_ and _inn_ is more or less transparent in my view.
_Øve inn _- means to internalise an ability until you know it by heart or until it's automatic.
_Øve opp_ - means to increase an ability or get better at something.

I am sure that others will additional comments.


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## littlepond

Thanks a lot, @myšlenka! Why is there no "opp" then in a sentence like ""øve seg på ski": doesn't it mean to practise skiing in order to get better at it? Or is it that both can be used, with and without "opp": "øve seg på ski" and ""øve seg opp på ski"? So maybe in the first sentence, the person is just practising, one doesn't know the motive (of increasing the ability)?


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## Ben Jamin

I think that to understand the role of the modifying prepositions you should notice that they are contractions of expressions that in English would require a longer phrase: øve inn = to practise until you have it firmly inside, øve seg opp = practise until you become much better. In "øve seg på ski" there is no expression of purpose, it just describes the activity of practising.


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## littlepond

Thanks, @Ben Jamin! So if one is practising skiing to become better at it, would it be then "øve seg opp på ski"?


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## winenous

In an attempt to clarify (and ask for confirmation as I am not 100% sure), I think "øve" by itself could also mean "practise to become better at".

However, adding the word "opp" emphasises the intention of improvement, as opposed to practising to maintain an existing skill level for example.


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## JonTve

I don't think I have heard  "øve opp" but "trene opp" sounds good to me.


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## littlepond

Thanks, everyone! Though I don't think I am 100% sure still about the "opp" introduction, I hope with _practice_, I will get better at understanding this.


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## raumar

I don't really think the dictionary example "_øve seg på ski_" looks natural. It could be used is when we talk about an absolute beginner, but in that case "_lære å gå på ski_" seems more natural. 



littlepond said:


> So if one is practising skiing to become better at it, would it be then "øve seg opp på ski"?


I am afraid that "_øve seg opp på ski_" looks even less natural in that situation. 

Let me try to explain. First, "_øve (seg)_". In the context of skiing, it looks more natural to me if we speak about specific skiing techniques, such as "_øve på fiskebein_" or "_øve på skøyting_" - but only when we speak about beginners. We use "_trene_" to describe experienced skiers, and "_trene_" can also be used to describe beginners (but "_trene seg_" would be wrong).

We can speak about "_trene på fiskebein_" etc. when we talk about improving specific skiing techniques/skills. However, "_trene på ski_" does not mean to practise to become a better skier, but to use skiing as a form of exercise (instead of jogging, for example). 

If you want to express that you practice to become a better skier in general, an option could be "_trene på å gå på ski_" if it is cross-country, or, if it is downhill, "_trene på å stå/kjøre på ski_". But skiing is like riding a bike: once you have learnt how to do it, you don't really need to practice to become better at it. Unless you are an athlete who participate in competitions.

"_Øve_" is more often used in other areas than sports. When we describe musicians who practice, for example, we use "_øve_" and not "_trene_". 

What about "_øve opp_"? This term is translated as "train" in my dictionary. We can "_øve opp_" an ability or skill, or a part of the body (a specific muscle, for example). Some examples from Google: "_øve opp evnen til å konsentrere seg_", "_øve opp luktesansen_", "_øve opp evnen til å tenke systematisk_". In the context of skiing, "_øve opp skiferdighetene_" could work. In all these cases, "_øve opp_" can be replaced with "_trene opp_". 

Some of these examples could be rewritten with "_øve seg opp_", for example "_øve seg opp i å bruke luktesansen_" or "_øve seg opp til å tenke systematisk_". If "_øve seg opp_" stands alone, without further context, it usually means rehabilitation after an accident or illness. But in that case, I think "_trene seg opp_" is the standard phrase.


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## winenous

I think I notice a certain cultural bias in what you say @raumer, which is in a way inevitable I suppose if one is using Norwegian to describe skiing. Some of us foreigners living in southern Europe - England for example(!) - are more likely to spend a lifetime learning (and forgetting again) how to ski. But we would probably stick to English to describe our learning experience and ineptitude 

Seriously - thank you for the lengthy and useful explanation.


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## raumar

Well, Norwegians like to think that we ar born with skis on our feet.

I didn't really answer the question about what "opp" in "øve opp" means. I agree with what myšlenka, Ben Jamin and winenous have said: it refers to efforts to get up to a higher level. That is clear in some cases, such as rehabilitation after an accident - when the aim is to reach the level you had before the accident. But, as littlepond's response has shown, the distinction between "up to a higher level" or not is not clear-cut, and it does not always give reliable advice about what words one should choose. I can just say that the idiomatic wording seems to vary between different contexts.


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## littlepond

Thanks a lot @raumar for such a lengthy and wonderful explanation! I agree with @winenous that skiing for some of us requires a lifetime to learn and practise (in order to get better at it).


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