# As of 1996



## xxavier

Hi everybody,

I am reading an article where "as of" is used although it does not seem to match with the definition giving by wordref.

" By having deployed 42 peace-keeping forces *as of* 1996,  the UN was able to restore calm to allow the negotiating  process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts."

I cannot find a proper French way to express this use of "as of",
Will you be able to help me? 
I really hope so,

Thank you very much,
Best wishes,

Xxavier


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## Gil

Suggestion:
à partir de


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## Cath.S.

_en 1996,_ tout simplement.


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## xxavier

But does it contain the sense that the journalist is writing in 1996 (or that he was only able to get the informations from this date) and that he wants to say that from the UN creation (1945 by the way) to 1996, x peace-keeping forces were deployed?


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## Gil

Suggestion:
à partir de
  		 	 		 		 		 		 			 				_______________
Je retire la suggestion Je ne suis plus sûr de comprendre la chronologie...


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## Opticrom

I think _des que_ can be used to say "since", in the temporal sense (Im not sure about the causal sense though).


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## se16teddy

xxavier said:
			
		

> But does it contain the sense that the journalist is writing in 1996 (or that he was only able to get the informations from this date) and that he wants to say that from the UN creation (1945 by the way) to 1996, x peace-keeping forces were deployed?


 
Yes, I think the problem here is with ambiguous English.   
- were there 42 forces there in 1996?
- had there been a total of 42 forces there in the period to 1996 (some of which had gone home)?
I suspect that using a date with the present perfect is a recipe for trouble!


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## LV4-26

According to the figures given and because of the perfect (or whatever you call it - a past gerundive?), I'd vote for #2 (from the UN's creation up to 1996). But it may need to be thought over a little longer.

EDIT : Having read that thread, I come to the conclusion that it may well mean : _from 1996 on._ (which is very different from what I'd suggested in the first place). In this case, Gil would be right with his _à partir de.
_But note that there's also an hint in the same thread that egueule (_*en* 1996_) could be right (post #3 of said thread).


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## LV4-26

Sorry. Coming back to my previous opinion. (from 1948 to 1996)
Because of this


> The third edition of _The Blue Helmets_ is a unique publication, containing the main facts of 41 United Nations peace-keeping operations from 1948 through early 1996.


Ok, 41 instead of 42 but....
sorry, can't give a link to the source as it seems to be a commercial (bookselling) site.
EDIT : after all...just type ["the blue helmets" 1996] in google and try hit #2.
Mods, I'll understand that you delete the above if against the rules.


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## xxavier

Thank you very much LV4-28 and thank you to all of you,
So if here "as of" means from its creation to 1998, then which French phrase would be the most appropriate? 
-Jusqu'en 1998?
-En 1998 (with the implied idea that it is until 1998)

If you have any sugestions..


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## LV4-26

Je dirais "_jusqu'en 1996"_ pour éviter toute ambigüité.

Pour moi, le sens de _as of _c'est : si je ma place en 1996 et que je regarde en arrière, je constate qu'il y a eu*...

Autre possibilité, plus libre :
_Jusqu'en 1996, les NU ont déployé 42 forces de maintien de la paix. Elles ont ainsi pu..._..

Ou encore, avec le plus-que-parfait :
_En 1996, les NU avaient (déjà) déployé....._.

Bien sûr, le plus naturel en français serait de dire
_Entre 48/entre leur création et 1996....
_mais c'est peut-être décidemment trop rajouter au texte...c'est toi qui vois...
___________________
* uniquement dans ce contexte passé. Dans un contexte futur (_e.g. as of 2015_), ce serait plutôt _si je regarde en avant, je constate qu'il y aura..._


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## xxavier

Oki doc LV4-26, merci encore pour ton aide.
Je vous souhaite à tous un excellent dimanche,
Best,


Xxavier


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## Cath.S.

Je ne suis toujours pas certaine, j'ai posé la question dans le forum English Only pour avoir plus d'avis sur la question.


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## Cath.S.

egueule said:
			
		

> Je ne suis toujours pas certaine, j'ai posé la question dans le forum English Only pour avoir plus d'avis sur la question.


Update!

I know now that I was wrong, and am very grateful. I'm glad I was so stubborn though, because I woud have been left with uncertainty, now I've learnt that as to of (merci Charlie ) can have two different meanings, and I'm happy.

Xxavier, j'espère que tu es finalement content et que ce débat contradictoire ne t'a pas fait perdre de temps.


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## xxavier

But do you think "as of" really has this second meaning of "from the Un's creation through 1996" or do you reckon the authors simply used "as of" wrongly?


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## LV4-26

xxavier said:
			
		

> But do you think "as of" really has this second meaning of "from the Un's creation through 1996" or do you reckon the authors simply used "as of" wrongly?


 C'est ce que j'avais pensé, moi. Mais je ne le pense plus. _As of_ est ici employé dans son deuxième sens (selon mon COD) : _as at (a specified time)_. _En 1996, les NU avaient déjà déployé etc...._
Je ne sais pas si tu traduiras comme ça ou si tu t'arrangeras pour rester plus proche de l'original (dans la structure), mais c'est le sens.


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## xxavier

Oki doc,
Things are now finally clear for me 
I would like to thank you all very very much for the time and energy you spent on this question. I trully appreciate this.
Best wishes,

Xxavier


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## Kelly B

I'm late, and the question is already solved correctly, but I'll add that I am very surprised by the dictionary definitions, aside from the second one LV4-26 referenced in post #16. I do not agree that it means à partir de or dorénavant in a context like this. To me, it means that "at the stated time (by then, à ce moment là)  it was true that..."


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## Sanda

Kelly B said:
			
		

> I'm late, and the question is already solved correctly, but I'll add that I am very surprised by the dictionary definitions, aside from the second one LV4-26 referenced in post #16. I do not agree that it means à partir de or dorénavant in a context like this. To me, it means that "at the stated time (by then, à ce moment là)  it was true that..."



EDIT (misread)

This issue got me quite confused. I'm glad everything's back to normal with "as of" (or is it?).

Possible translations, along with Gil's "à partir de":
"à compter de"
"depuis"

This what I understand: "the increase in peace-force, implemented in 1996, did help avoid more casualties".


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## joels341

Hi. I am an English speaker. I just wanted to add here that "as of" has nothing to do with "from the time of creation", unless the sentence says so.

From the sentence given to us:

 "By having deployed 42 peace-keeping forces *as of* 1996, the UN was able to restore calm to allow the negotiating process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts."

It is only known that at some unknown point in time, the UN deployed forces. By the year 1996, the number of forces deployed was 42. So, "as of" here only tells us the date when this number was correct. It is like "as of the time of this writing this information is correct".

I do not know what would be said in French, but I just wanted to shed some light on the English question. Hope it helps.


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## Sanda

joels341 said:
			
		

> Hi. I am an English speaker. I just wanted to add here that "as of" has nothing to do with "from the time of creation", unless the sentence says so.
> 
> From the sentence given to us:
> 
> "By having deployed 42 peace-keeping forces *as of* 1996, the UN was able to restore calm to allow the negotiating process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts."
> 
> It is only known that at some unknown point in time, the UN deployed forces. By the year 1996, the number of forces deployed was 42. So, "as of" here only tells us the date when this number was correct. It is like "as of the time of this writing this information is correct".
> 
> I do not know what would be said in French, but I just wanted to shed some light on the English question. Hope it helps.



Oh, I think I see what you mean. In French it could be something like:

"Avec (un total de) 42 forces xxx à partir de/en 1996, les Nations unies (...)".

EDIT: sorry, I meant this to be a question; I'm still trying to make sure I get it right.


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## LV4-26

If I understood correctly, joels341 is saying that [the sentence is saying that], in 1996, 42 UN peace-keeping forces were actually deployed around the world. 
Nothing is said as to how long they'd been there. Some had been sent at a certain point in time, others at another point and so on....What is said is that, in 1996, 42 were actually present.

That's what you're saying, joels341, isn't it?

Now, the strange coincidence is that number seems to precisely match the exact number of forces sent since the UN's creation in 1948 through July 1996 (Mission d'appui des Nations-Unis en Haïti), most of which returned home before that date.
See link provided by egueule in EO forum.

Again, I don't mean to correct a native and say that he/she wrongly interprets the meaning of the sentence. I'm just saying that such are the arithmetic facts, whether they are correctly expressed in the sentence or not.


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## Kelly B

Flipping back and forth between the two threads on the subject is driving me crazy, as is the level of disagreement. I was hoping it was an AE-BE difference, but the opinions do not line up neatly along those lines, either. Still, it leads me to wonder whether the quote is AE or BE.
I agree with joels341, and with LV4-26's comments on it. I'm pretty sure that à ce moment là would serve. I'm pleased that the data seem to confirm that, but I would interpret the sentence this way regardless.

I had one child as of 1997.

You cannot tell when he arrived, and you cannot tell that I have two of them now. All you know is that during that year, I had one of them.


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## joels341

Kelly B understands correctly.

LV4-26, are you saying that 42 forces were sent between the creation of the UN and 1996? And you are saying that the actual number of forces in 1996 was less than 42?

If so, then the author of the sentence in question made a mistake.


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## Kelly B

Ah, I see the distinction you are making, LV4-26. I still think that you were correct in your post #11, in any case. The original sentence still sounds OK to me. The UN had deployed xx units ... deployed meaning "sent out" with no indication of their return dates, rather than "were continuously deployed" until 1996.


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## polaire

Ah . . . que j'ai[e?] mal à la tête, il faut que je move on to another thread as of right now. 

I'm confused, but for me, using "as of" does usually imply the entire past of a subject with an attempt to fix a specific point in the present.  In my experience, people who are careful writers of English generally don't use "as of" and "in [such-and-such a date]" interchangeably.

That's my two cents.


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## LV4-26

joels341 said:
			
		

> And you are saying that the actual number of forces in 1996 was less than 42?


 Yes, that's what I'm saying.
The actual number of forces active in mid-1996 was 15 (provided I counted properly : 7 still "en cours" + 8 returned home in the meantime, between 1996 and 2006).
Of course, the sentence doesn't say so but the UN site does (if you make a little extra computing ). What don't you click on the link in my post #22 (thks, egueule) to see by yourself?


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## Cath.S.

If we has known straight away the text had been written in 1997, it would have helped us non-natives (at the very least, it would have helped me, and I definitely ought to have checked the date).



			
				Cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Tisia's logic, which depends on a strained bit of writing, (not her own, but the original cited text.) overlooks a key point. When was this written?!
> 
> From the UN website:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Major Achievements of the United Nations
> *...* Maintaining peace and security - By *having* *deployed* a total of 42 peace-keeping
> forces and observer missions as of September 1996, the United Nations has been *...*
> www.un.org/Overview/achieve.html - 24k - *1997-01-15*
> 
> Context is everything.


http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=1032607&postcount=19


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## se16teddy

I think one of the problems here is that 'as of' is not used in a standard sense here - not very good for a formal document aimed at an international audience. According to my dictionary (Collins), 'as of' is an alternative to 'as from' and means 'from' in expressions of time, e.g. 'fares will rise as from / of January 11'.


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## xxavier

When I realise the mess this question has created in the head of so many English students (and natives!!) on two forums, I feel a bit responsible..


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## Cath.S.

xxavier said:
			
		

> When I realise the mess this question has created in the head of so many English students (and natives!!) on two forums, I feel a bit responsible..


Personnellement je te remercie parce qu'au contraire j'ai découvert un sens de _as of_ que j'ignorais.


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## xxavier

Bon ben si tout le monde est content alors.. 
Encore une fois, merci à tous les gens qui se sont décarcassés pour trouver les informations des nations unies, des exemples sur Internet, dans leur dictionnaire.
Long live Internet and longe live solidarity!
Thank you all so much


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## marie132

ok here is an edit of my message!
"as of" can mean "since Xdate" (past) or "from Xdate on" (future) or "as for Xdate" (present of the date)
once we figure it out we can give a translation xD


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## xxavier

Cheers Marie, that very nice of you but you may have missed a few threads when you read all of them before posting yours


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## joels341

*On the site: **w w w. un .org / Overview / achieve . html*
*(it wouldn't let me post a url)

It says:

Maintaining peace and security* - By having deployed a total of 42 peace-keeping forces and observer missions as of September 1996, the United Nations has been able to restore calm to allow the negotiating process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts. There are presently 16 active peace-keeping forces in operation.

The wording and context is slightly different from the snippet originally posted, yet I believe it sheds some light on the true shade of meaning meant by the author. By using the word "total" and "has been able", we can understand better what it is supposed to mean.

So, the true meaning is something like "Since the creation of the UN onward, until September 1996, a total of 42 peace-keeping forces have been deployed. And at this moment (or as of the time the site was updated 1996), there are 16 deployed forces." This matches with what LV4-26 said.


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## marie132

kk, i think i got it!

   1. Maintaining peace and security - By having deployed a total of 42 peace-keeping forces and observer missions as of September 1996, the United Nations has been able to restore calm to allow the negotiating process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts. There are presently 16 active peace-keeping forces in operation.


w w w . u n .o r g / O v e r v i e w / a c h i e v e . h t m l

that page was last updated on Sept. 1996, so u can definitely not look forward, (it can't mean "since")

then there is the TOTAL number and the present perfect. i think it means since the creation of the UN (i honestly dont see the UN deploying 42 peace-keeping forces and fixing the world's problems all in one year).

therefore, i think it means "until 1996" (jusqu'en 1996)


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