# продающий/спасающий



## Bruno Veloni

Hello,

I'm translating some Teffi's short stories and I have some doubts.
For example:

"Соединённые взаимным отталкиванием, ле рюссы определённо разделяются на две категории: на продающих Россию и спасающих её." (Ле рюссы, Теффи)

My version:

Connected by a mutual repulsion, definitively divide themselves into two categories: those who are "betraying/selling" Russia and those who are "saving" it

*I'm not translating it to English. My focus is продающий/спасающий. I pretty sure there hundred ways, better ways, to translate it, I just wanted to give some context.

*[...]*
*Mod note: please open a separate thread for a separate question.*

Thanks!


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## rusita preciosa

In this context betraying/ saving works.


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## Rosett

For _продающих_, "selling" is rather good. "Betraying" would stand for _предающих_ in the given context.


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## Sobakus

_Продающих_ definitely has both meanings, but the "betraying" one is secondary and is rather subjective – the perpetrators usually don't see themselves as betraying anything. There's the English _to sell out_, but it usually refers to betraying one's principles while the Russian word implies having none at all. If there's nothing similar in the target language, I would consider using a descriptive (_x_ and _y_) translation.


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## Loafer

Yes, "sell" would be good, like in "sell one's soul" . And besides, "sell vs save" sounds good as an opposition.


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## 4356

It should be taken into account that the author narrates from the perspective of the savers. I don't think it'd be correct to translate "they divide themselves" for the traders will not acknowledge that they trade Russia or that there are some savers either. In the original Russian sentence there's no first person for a reason in that place where you put "they". It's the savers who believe in these two categories. It's my opinion. She could write "ля рюссы разделяют себя на две категории" but she chose not to. It's not just the grammatical system, there's a reason for the absence of "they" there. Teffi is like manipulating here (well, as per usual).


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## Bruno Veloni

Thank you all!

I'm translating those short stories to Portuguese, so it is kind of difficult to ask in English and then associate with Portuguese, but the explanations were very helpful. I'll bring all these explanations to my russian teacher, she will be glad. She teaches russian language and literature...and knows Portuguese. 

4356, this is exactly the thing I want to notice. In Portuguese we also use this verbal construction to de-emphasize the Agent, so I think it doens't sound as my English version.

One more thing, would you guys translate "продающий/спасающий" to "those who are trading/those who are saving" or "traders/savers"? Again, in Portuguese I'll make it better.


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## Loafer

...into those who sell their country and those who save it.


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## Rosett

I think that a trader is someone who would buy and sell in the given context.


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## 4356

The notion/conception of saving Russia originates from the Orthodox church and is associated with The Redeemer so "saving" is quite an accurate choice but to add it some literary touch one could employ such words as "to rescue" ("those rescuing") or whatever Portuguese has. As for продающих I'd stick with "those trading Russia" as it implies both selling and a little bit of betraying, the idea of Russia being a commodity. For example Putin illegally and without paying tax sold Russian wood to Finland and Sweden when he lived in Saint Perersburg working as a bodyguard in 1990s. Продающие are people whom there's nothing sacred for while спасающие are those who think that Russia should adhere to Christian virtues with Moscow dubbed as the Third Rome. If you're translating as a homework I'd suggest you take "those trading Russia" and "those saving it" but it will be Portugues so good luck.


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## Bruno Veloni

Thanks again!

4356, thank you for the explanation. I think "rescue" will be perfect.

*it is a undergraduate project


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## 4356

In the saver's perspective продающие like trade the sanctity of Russia concept for the sins the human race had once been redeemed from. So this choice suggests a combination of market and bertrayal.


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## Schiavono

Selling/saving is good to me.
Russians often use 'to sell' in the meaning of betraying speaking about the country 'They sell out the country' is quite common form of reproach for bad politicians even in the daily speach...

'Saving' was perfectly explaind by 4356, it definitely has religious background

Both words have been used very often in Russian literature - Teffi definitely summarizes long tradition here 

But I would like to add that using both words express Russian manner to almost oriental pathos and exeggaration in speach...  
these expressions are often pronounced very emotionally - not just as statement but as and exclamation or appeal 

not just betray - but sell.. very practical and low meaning of this word makes the whole action as base as possible
not just set things - but save...  the religious reference makes this task very sublime


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## Schiavono

Selling/saving is good to me.
Russians often use 'to sell' in the meaning of betraying speaking about the country 'They sell out the country' is quite common form of reproach for bad politicians even in the daily speach...

'Saving' was perfectly explaind by 4356, it definitely has religious background

Both words have been used very often in Russian literature - Teffi definitely summarizes long tradition here 

But I would like to add that using both words express Russian manner to almost oriental pathos and exeggaration in speach...  
these expressions are often pronounced very emotionally - not just as statement but as and exclamation or appeal 

not just betray - but sell.. very practical and low meaning of this word makes the whole action as base as possible
not just set things - but save...  the religious reference makes this task very sublime


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## 4356

Yes, I agree. Selling out. The ones selling out Russia and the ones saving it.


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## Bruno Veloni

Thank you for the explanations about the language itself and some background!

My teacher also told me to translate it into _salvar_ (save) and _vender_ (sell)


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