# Prostitute's customer



## parap

Hi,

I'm looking for a verb that denotes what a customer does when he goes to a prostitute.

To illustrate: a prostitute _prostitutes_ her/himself. What does a customer do? (please don't say "has sex"!!)

Thanks in advance!


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## mjscott

He can pay to do a number of things--it's left to the depth of his imagination and the thickness of his wallet.


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## parap

mjscott said:


> He can pay to do a number of things--it's left to the depth of his imagination and the thickness of his wallet.



Thanks.. I can use my imagination as well.. I was hoping to find one verb that denotes the act of visiting and using prostitutes, preferably not too colloquial.


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## Nunty

I am not sure there is one word that means "paying for sex with a prostitute", which I believe is your question. It has recently been made illegal in my country; I'll see if I can an English equivalent for whatever it is called in the law books here.

Interesting question. Thank you.


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## Cagey

The noun "_john_" is commonly used to refer to the customer, at least in AmE.  

I don't know any more concise verb form than "buying/ paying for sex", as has been suggested above.


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## cyberpedant

"Go whoring," but I'm not sure if that denotes paying.


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## Meeracat

parap, I am as interested as you in finding such a word. I struggled for weeks trying to find one for a translation I was doing, but without success. The truth is there is no such word except for the obvious colloquial expression such as John and trick. I suspect that this is an example of cultural smoke and mirrors that enables us to focus on the role of the prostitute while keep the users out of sight and anonymous.


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## parap

Thanks for all the replies!

Meeracat, interesting that you were stuck with the same problem. How did you solve it in the end?


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## Broccolicious

Hi there

This is one of the areas my organisation works on, and we tend to say that clients 'pay for sex' or 'buy sex'. 

We wouldn't use the expression 'to go whoring' (!), and we use the term 'commercial sex worker' rather than 'prostitute' or 'whore'.

I'm very interested to read other suggestions - thanks for an excellent question!

Broc


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## Meeracat

To be honest I just dropped the reference at one point and used the word 'pimp' in another. Obviously pimp has a totally different meaning but the context let me get away with it. The only way to deal with 'smoke and mirrors' is 'slight of hand'.


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## parap

I sort of like "trick," as in "he tricked with a prostitute," it's just too bad that it's considered to be slang. I wish I could find a more formal (or at least less colloquial) equivalent.

"pay for sex" and "buy sex" sound too direct, but possible in the context that I have. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Broccolicious

Can you tell us your context, so that we can (hopefully) help you more?


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## Cagey

parap said:


> I sort of like "trick," as in "he tricked with a prostitute," it's just too bad that it's considered to be slang. I wish I could find a more formal (or at least less colloquial) equivalent.



"Trick" in this context is a _noun_, not a verb.  A prostitute's customer is a "trick" (or "john").  To my knowledge it cannot be used as a verb with this meaning.


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## parap

Cagey said:


> "Trick" in this context is a _noun_, not a verb.  A prostitute's customer is a "trick" (or "john").  To my knowledge it cannot be used as a verb with this meaning.



According to the OED it can.


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## Nunty

Based on conversations with ladies in the field, in AE they might say that _they  _were "tricking" or "turning tricks", and they might call the customer a "trick", but I haven't heard anyone call what the customer does "tricking".


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## parap

Broccolicious said:


> Can you tell us your context, so that we can (hopefully) help you more?



It's about a man, X, who uses a woman as a prostitute. At one point, another character in the story says something along the lines of: "I caught X .... with her." The ... stands for the verb that I'm looking for.


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## Suehil

How about 'I caught X giving her his custom'? or '..availing himself of her services'?


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## cuchuflete

How about forming a verb from punter, as in BE slang for someone who uses prostitutes (a John)?  "I caught him punting with her."


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## panjandrum

What about patron and patronize/ise?

patronize:
_To favour or support (a shop, restaurant, theatre, etc.) with one's custom; to frequent, esp. as a customer or visitor; to favour with one's presence._

It has a rather old-fashioned air, and of course to patronize is perhaps more familiar with this meaning:
_To assume an air of superiority towards; to treat or speak about (a person, etc.) condescendingly, esp. with apparent indulgence or kindness.

_(Both from the OED)

Edit to include:
I just had a very careful look in Google and there are many links for patronise prostitute, patronise brothel, patronize prostitute, patronize brothel.
And I hope the web-snoopers have been turning a blind eye


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## BritinFrance

A common noun for a client is a 'punter', but I don't believe this can be used as a verb.
There is a slang expression 'mongering' but it's not very well known
To 'use' as with drugs perhaps?

As in "
*Men who use prostitutes could face jail say ministers " 
*


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## ewie

cuchuflete said:


> "I caught him punting with her."


_Punting_ would conjure up *an entirely different leisure activity* in a lot of BE-speakers' minds.
How about _frequenting_? ~ _Mr.X caught him frequenting Miss.Y._

Oops: just notice Panjo mentioned this.  I also like his _patronizing._


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## BritinFrance

I don't think that Punternet is about gambling or about Dreaming spires..

'Consorting with'  ?

Of course much depends on the tone and register of the context

"Jimmy Swaggart, America's leading television evangelist, has resigned from his ministry after it was revealed he had been consorting with a prostitute."


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## Broccolicious

How about leaving the troublesome verb aside, and just saying "I caught him with her"? Would the hearer understand the meaning from the context, in this specific case?


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## Kevin Beach

"It's about a man, X, who uses a woman as a prostitute. At one point, another character in the story says something along the lines of: "I caught X .... with her." The ... stands for the verb that I'm looking for. "

It depends on what he was actually caught doing. Was he simply observed approaching or keeping company with the prostitute, or was he witnessed making the beast with two backs?


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## BritinFrance

Broccolicious said:


> How about leaving the troublesome verb aside, and just saying "I caught him with her"? Would the hearer understand the meaning from the context, in this specific case?



or I caught him with a tart/prostitute/escort  etc..


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## cyberpedant

There is a slang expression 'mongering'

Doesn't this refer to a "pimp"?


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## BritinFrance

cyberpedant said:


> There is a slang expression 'mongering'
> 
> Doesn't this refer to a "pimp"?



It would be logical since 
Middle English mongere, from Old English mangere, from Latin mango, _dealer in slaves_, _probably of Greek origin_.
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mongering)

On the other hand it has been used (possibly misused)  in the phrase 'go mongering' and even 'monger'


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## GreenWhiteBlue

I am astonished that out of all the answers above, only Panj has mentioned the word "patronize".  This was the term that readily came to my mind, and I would find it a completely natural and common use to say, for example, _The governor of the state was forced to resign when it was discovered that he regularly patronized prostitutes._


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## Loob

But would that work in parap's sentence, GWB (see post 16)?

_I caught X patronising her_ sounds vaguely comical to me


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## Kevin Beach

But I read that with another meaning entirely! Patronize also means to talk down to somebody condescendingly.

So why did the poor old governor have to resign just because he was a bit arrogant towards prostitutes?!


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## Vanda

ewie said:


> How about _frequenting_? ~ _Mr.X caught him frequenting Miss.Y.__._



In my language these are the words we use: frequent (v) and frequenter (noun). Don't know if it sounds natural to an English native. According to definition 1 from our dictionary it would be the word I'd choose:


*1 **frequent*,

_be a regular or frequent visitor to a certain place; "She haunts the ballet"_


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## emma42

I can't think of a good general noun either.  There is "kerb-crawler" - a man who is looking for a street prostitute, but this does not encompass the actual business.

Vanda,  we wouldn't use "frequent" with a person as the object.  We should, though, it would be a brilliant answer to this question!


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## ewie

The reasons I chose _frequent_, after some thought (about 15 seconds),were: (1) it seemed like a reasonable word, with a charming old-fashioned euphemistic feel to it; and (2) as well as being euphemistic, it coincidentally features _f(r) + [Vowel] + k... _, so I thought _He was caught frequenting a prostitute_ was ... well, quite _funny_.


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## BritinFrance

What is wrong with 'uses' (with the slightly nasty taste that word gives) ?
Or 'I caught him with a prostitute/escort/tart' as I suggested above?

obviously 'patronise' is ridiculous since that means 'look down on' ..not at all what is required.

see these two Media articles for how to use 'patronise'

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-08-15-aids-dont-patronise-the-poor-clinton-warns

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3991679.ece

There is a word 'patron' but it is not used as a verb in standard English, only in AE.  In addition, in French it refers to the Boss, not at all to the client!
To say 'I am a client'  we say 'I am a regular (British sense) customer/ I shop at/ or (being really snobbish) I give them my PATRONAGE. 
There is also the word 'patron' for a sponsor of say, the Arts or a charity.
That certainly doesn't carry the negative overtones of going with a lady of the night.

'Frequent' or 'consort with' both are euphemisms but neither clearly state that the man had sex.

I opt for 'uses..'
1) there are plenty of examples in the Media
2)it implies the objectfication of the woman
3)it is clear that sex took place, but only as a function, not as a relationship.


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## johndot

Perhaps:
 
“I caught X paying for (_or_ negotiating) favours with a prostitute...”
 
(I’m given to understand it’s a common enough expression—I wouldn’t know.)


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Loob said:


> But would that work in parap's sentence, GWB (see post 16)?
> 
> _I caught X patronising her_ sounds vaguely comical to me


 
For the governor I have in mind (and all residents of the State of New York might have the same one in mind...) I am sure it was not comical at all to read in the newspaper "_he had *patronized* prostitutes_."



			
				BritinFrance said:
			
		

> obviously 'patronise' is ridiculous since that means 'look down on'


What is obvious is that you do not know all the meanings of the word "patronize". I certainly do not consider my statement, or that of Panj, to be "obviously ...ridiculous" at all. It could be that this is a UK-US difference, but the fact remains that "patronizing a prostitute" (and notice that here, in the larger English-speaking nation, we spell the word with a "z") is an appropriate description of the activity. Indeed, in the laws of my own state, and probably in the criminal codes of other states, that is how the offense is named: Patronizing a Prostitute.


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## BritinFrance

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> For the governor I have in mind (and all residents of the State of New York might have the same one in mind...) I am sure it was not comical at all to read in the newspaper "_he was caught *patronizing* a prostitute_."
> 
> 
> What is obvious is that you do  not know all the meanings of the word "patronize".  I certainly do not consider my statement, or that of Panj, to be "obviously ...ridiculous" at all.  It could be that this is a UK-US difference, but the fact remains that "patronizing a prostitute" (and notice that here, in the larger English-speaking nation, we spell the word with a "z") is an appropriate description of the activity.  Indeed, in the laws of my own state, and probably in the criminal codes of other states, that is how the offense is named: Patronizing a Prostitute.



but it simply means that he treated her as a piece of dirt!
She was so far below him that he simply condescended to her.

How could that be embarrassing?


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## Broccolicious

I agree with GWB that the other meaning of 'patronise' - to use someone's services - could technically work here. For example, this morning I patronised my butcher - I just bought some steak from him.

However, as we're so used to the 'condescend' meaning, perhaps it's not the best option. Maybe that is a UK / US difference, as you suggest, GWB.

NB I'm not sure that 'larger' is necessarily 'better'... how apt to this thread topic!


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## Loob

BritinFrance said:


> but it simply means that he treated her as a piece of dirt!


It doesn't, BritinFrance.
It's this meaning of patronise, as Broc said: _



trans. To favour or support (a shop, restaurant, theatre, etc.) with one's custom; to frequent, esp. as a customer or visitor; to favour with one's presence.
		
Click to expand...

 (Source:OED)_

Oh, and you can certainly spell the word "patronize" in BrE too...


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## Topsie

Mr. X was caught purchasing/sampling Miss Y's wares (?)


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## BritinFrance

Broccolicious said:


> I agree with GWB that the other meaning of 'patronise' - to use someone's services - could technically work here. For example, this morning I patronised my butcher - I just bought some steak from him.


wouldn't you find it more natural to say 'I went to the Butchers' or I shopped at my local Butcher?


It's true that I am an old man but I have never heard the word 'patronise' to mean shop at/ drink at   etc.

Imagine you are in Lower Puddleduck Mummermet shire.
Would you say 
"I use the White Swan"
"I drink at the White Swan"
"I go to the White Swan" 
or "I patronise he White Swan"

Be honest and listen to yourself..


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Broccolicious said:


> However, as we're so used to the 'condescend' meaning, perhaps it's not the best option. Maybe that is a UK / US difference, as you suggest, GWB.


Indeed. In the larger of our our two English speaking nations (which means that it is the one with more native English-speakers), the more common meaning of the word "patronize" is the older one: "to act as a patron of; to provide aid or support for".

I am very surprised that the only meaning known by some people, or the primary meaning that comes to some minds, is that of "treating as a social inferior." Perhaps it is the presence of a legally-defined and legally-recognized aristocratic class in the smaller of our two English-speaking countries, and its abolition and prohibition in the larger one, that may account for part of the difference.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

BritinFrance said:


> It's true that I am an old man but I have never heard the word 'patronise' to mean shop at/ drink at etc.


 
You have really never heard any business refer to its "patrons", meaning its customers, or those who use its services?

Here are some UK examples:
"_Why we must *patronise* our good booskhops_"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/article577706.ece

_"The people of Lewes who patronise our local shop..."_
http://www.gossypium.co.uk/blog/blog.html 

"_We are grateful to our *patrons*..."_
http://www.hylandstennis.co.uk/patrons.html

_"Welcome to our website, which gives details of our forthcoming production, together with other information that will be of interest to our *patrons*." _
http://www.arcadians.org/

"_We constantly listen to our* patrons *and innovate in enhancing the cinema_ _experience."_
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4691224.stm


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## Loob

parap said:


> What does a customer do? (please don't say "has sex"!!)


It does seem to me that the option you don't want us to suggest is the simplest one, parap

_I caught X having sex with her._


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## cuchuflete

Mr. X was caught whoring with Ms. Y.

That's simple and to the point, and the verb _to whore_ is defined equally simply and directly by the Oxford Shorter and Compact Dictionaries:  "*2* use the services of prostitutes."


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## xqby

I liked Topsie's idea. It's whimsical and euphemistic, assuming of course that we've already established the young lady's profession.

I think of "to patronize" more in the sense of the arts than of shops, though I am certainly okay with its use for the brothels of the world.


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## BritinFrance

xqby said:


> I
> BritinFrance: you'd say that someone is a patron of the arts but assume that patronising a theater means talking to the building like it is inferior? Intriguing.



I would never patronise a theatre.
I would be a customer.

A patron might never go there, but would *be a patron of *(not patronise) 

( as the Queen could be a 'patron' of a theatre without being a client) 

I do go and regularly, so I am a regular customer


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## Full Tilt Boogie

I'd go with patronize (if it is a verb we seek), or 'go with' or 'use' prostitutes.

For such a grubby business, it's easy to see why people wax lyrical when describing it: a frequenter of ladies of easy/purchasable virtue.


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## Broccolicious

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Indeed. In the larger of our our two English speaking nations (which means that it is the one with more native English-speakers), the more common meaning of the word "patronize" is the older one: "to act as a patron of; to provide aid or support for".
> 
> I am very surprised that the only meaning known by some people, or the primary meaning that comes to some minds, is that of "treating as a social inferior." Perhaps it is the presence of a legally-defined and legally-recognized aristocratic class in the smaller of our two English-speaking countries, and its abolition and prohibition in the larger one, that may account for part of the difference.


 
Well, whatever the reason, we don't use it much here. I've certainly never heard it used in conversation, except for comic effect. Since we haven't been told the tone / audience / much else about the context in this specific case, maybe it's best avoided. That's my view, at least.


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## emma42

Of course we use it here!  It's a perfectly well-known (although obviously not to everyone) verb.


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## 32000BTUGasGrill

Patronize makes perfect sense here. I would not think twice if someone said "patronize a prostitute" to mean "pay for a prostitute's services." (You could also just say that.) I would also use "pick up a prostitute" though that is more colloquial. 'hire a prostitute' may also work.


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## panjandrum

If you look around, courtesy of Google, for example, you will find thousands - tens of thousands, of links including patronise in this specific context.  It appears to me to be the term of choice among much of the media.

It would not "work", I realised afterwards, to describe what the patron actually does with the prostitute (as loob pointed out).

But from a more distant viewpoint, he patronises/patronizes prostitutes, he patronises/patronizes brothels.

Look at some of these links.
Before you object, I know I'm searching for the two words separately so the counts are not of phrases but of sites including both words.
patronize prostitute  270,000
patronize brothel  53,900


<< And a moderator's reminder: The topic of the thread is clearly set out in post #1.  The topic is not patronise/ize.  Posts that do not address the specific topic are liable to be deleted. >>


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## BritinFrance

Have you tried the same search with 'use prostitutes'?
And as yet no-one has commented on my suggestion 
I caught him with a prostitute/tart/escort/whore..
wouldn't this be a way of getting round a verb which evidently does not find unanimity here..


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## Loob

I'll comment, BritinFrance.

The immediate context, as we now have it, is  "I caught X {insert verb} with her".  I imagine a transitive verb would also be acceptable  "I caught X {insert verb} her".  

I don't think "I caught X _using_ her" works.


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## BritinFrance

cuchuflete said:


> Mr. X was caught whoring with Ms. Y.
> 
> That's simple and to the point, and the verb _to whore_ is defined equally simply and directly by the Oxford Shorter and Compact Dictionaries:  "*2* *use *the services of prostitutes."


 so again '*use*' comes out top!


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## xqby

Eww.

Oh! I have good one I think. How does the collective mind of WR feel about "I caught him _consorting_ with her"?


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## Kevin Beach

xqby said:


> Eww.
> 
> Oh! I have good one I think. How does the collective mind of WR feel about "I caught him _consorting_ with her"?


The phrase "Consorting with prostitutes" is not unknown in Britain.


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## emma42

Yes, I like "consorting with prostitutes".  Ooh, double-entendre!

I have to say that I am surprised at the use of "patronise" with a person as direct object, rather than a place.


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## Loob

I'm sorry, but I have to say that _*in parap's specific context*_ I find "consorting" also faintly amusing.

It sounds like a comedy policeman. "And there I was, your 'onour, walking along the Mile End Road, when I came upon the defendant consorting with a prostitute in the car park of the King's 'Ead public 'ouse".


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## parap

Wow! I didn't realize my question would trigger so many responses!

I think one thing is clear: I'm going to have to reformulate the original sentence. 

I like patronize, but I'll have to modify the context somewhat to avoid ambiguity. That's doable.

Thanks for all the other suggestions as well! They got me thinking in different directions, which is always a good thing.


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## ILT

I'm watching an American TV show, and I just heard this gay (late 30s - early 40s) say "to whore around" meaning to have sex with prostitutes. I think it is not the adequate term for the document mentioned in the first post, but does it mean the same?


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## xqby

You may want to wait for the response of someone in their late 30's, because sex slang has been known to vary between generations, but in my age group and region a guy (especially a gay one) 'whoring around' is just being promiscuous. There's no sense of paying for the sex, just of having a lot of it, mostly with strangers.


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## JamesM

I'm well beyond my late 30s, but I agree that "whoring around" to me means "sleeping around with loose partners (women or men)" and not paying for sex (although paying for sex is not excluded as part of "whoring around.")


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## Dimcl

"I caught Mr. X availing himself of the services of the lady of the night"


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