# past conditional



## 6aalib

I have read the basics of making "if" sentences using* إذا + past tense verb*. Here is an example given from "A Reference Grammar of Modern Standard Arabic" pg. 672

*إذا كنتَ* قي الطوابق العلوية , ﻻتهرع الى الاسفل
If you are on the upper floors, do not rush to the lower [floors].


So I understand even if you are talking about the present tense, the grammar of this in Arabic is idhaa + past tense verb.  


But my question is, what if you want to say a conditional sentence about the past, such as "if you were on the upper floors....".    How would you say that ?


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## Hemza

Hello,

If you want to make a supposition which will never happen, like "if you were a bird, you would be able to fly"  the word you must use is "لو"+ past tense verb 
ex: لو كنت طائر-"if you were a bird"


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## 6aalib

Thank you for your response Hemza.  I understand that  "لو" is used for "improbable" cases, but my question is still for probable cases, in the past tense.  

For example in English,
"If you were close to the mall yesterday, then why didn't you go there yesterday? "

In other words, my question is: since the past tense is used for a present tense meaning (eg. *إذا كنتَ*  = if you are ), then how can you say the past tense (eg.  if you were ) ?


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## Hemza

I think it's still "*إذا كنت*".
Your sentence would be: "إذا كنت قريب من المحال امس فلماذا ما دخلت فيه"


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## dkarjala

6aalib said:


> But my question is, what if you want to say a conditional sentence about the past, such as "if you were on the upper floors....".    How would you say that ?



It would be easier to answer this question if you complete the sentence with the result clause - how would the second part go in this second version?


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## 6aalib

dkarjala said:


> It would be easier to answer this question if  you complete the sentence with the result clause - how would the second  part go in this second version?



Yes, but I can't really think of a good result clause for that.  If you mind I will just consider the example that I made up "If you were close to the mall yesterday, then why didn't you go there yesterday? "



Hemza said:


> I think it's still "*إذا كنت*".
> Your sentence would be: "إذا كنت قريب من المحال امس فلماذا ما دخلت فيه"



OK that is what I was thinking.  So I guess you use *إذا كنت* for "if you were" AND "if you are", and then from the context + the tense used in the result clause, the meaning can be figured out.  

Shukran !


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## dkarjala

6aalib said:


> OK that is what I was thinking.  So I guess you use *إذا كنت* for "if you were" AND "if you are", and then from the context + the tense used in the result clause, the meaning can be figured out.
> 
> Shukran !



The reason I asked you about the result clause was to get you thinking about the distinction you're making. Standard Arabic doesn't really differentiate between the tense of conditions - all conditions are treated as past. The question is whether the condition can be fulfilled or not. In the case of the past, if the result clause didn't happen and can't happen, you change the word for 'if' to لو _not_ the verb tense. If the result clause could or would happen, you use اذا (or ان in some cases). The other distinctions don't actually matter at the end of the day. Also, in spoken varieties, one or the other word for 'if' is often used for almost all conditions.


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## momai

Hi,
If you want to express the present case in Arabic then you don't have to mention the verb to be in past kuntu at all and since Arabic doesn't use the verb to be in present so it would be better to omit it or to use the perfect tense takun . So your sentence would be "If you are on the upper floors, do not rush to the lower [floors]."
اذا أنت( تكون )في الطوابق العلوية فلا تهرع إلى الأسفل


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## 6aalib

momai said:


> Hi,
> If you want to express the present case in Arabic then you don't have to  mention the verb to be in past kuntu at all and since Arabic doesn't  use the verb to be in present so it would be better to omit it or to use  the perfect tense takun . So your sentence would be "If you are on the  upper floors, do not rush to the lower [floors]."
> اذا أنت( تكون )في الطوابق العلوية فلا تهرع إلى الأسفل



OK.  I took that example from the textbook, and I will keep using "kuntu" here just to make sure I understand the principle of how to conjugate the verbs.  But that is good to know.   شكرا


dkarjala said:


> The reason I asked you about the result clause was to get you thinking about the distinction you're making. Standard Arabic doesn't really differentiate between the tense of conditions - all conditions are treated as past. The question is whether the condition can be fulfilled or not. In the case of the past, if the result clause didn't happen and can't happen, you change the word for 'if' to لو _not_ the verb tense. If the result clause could or would happen, you use اذا (or ان in some cases). The other distinctions don't actually matter at the end of the day. Also, in spoken varieties, one or the other word for 'if' is often used for almost all conditions.



Shukran, this is a really great explanation (it should be in the textbook ! ).   If you don't mind I will try it with a few examples here:

Probable condition:

"If I am in the mall, I will go to the store"

إذا كنت في المول سأذهب إلى دكان


Improbable condition:

Person #1:  "I thought you went to the mall yesterday.  Why didn't you go to the store at that time?"
Person #2:  "No I did not.  If I were in the mall, then I would have went yesterday." 

لو كنت قي المول لَذهبت أمس

(I am not sure if this is correct )


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## akhooha

> "If I am in the mall, I will go to the store"
> إذا كنت في المول سأذهب إلى دكان


إذا كنت في المول فسأذهب إلى الدكان
(I'm not really sure if you really _need_ the ف , but I think it's good form. If you mean _the_ store, then you _do_ need the ال )


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## momai

6aalib said:


> OK.  I took that example from the textbook, and I will keep using "kuntu" here just to make sure I understand the principle of how to conjugate the verbs.  But that is good to know.


عفوا!
I am sorry I made a mistake .I meant to say the present tense instead of "perfect tense".


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## Arabic_Police_999

akhooha said:


> إذا كنت في المول فسأذهب إلى الدكان
> (I'm not really sure if you really _need_ the ف , but I think it's good form. If you mean _the_ store, then you _do_ need the ال )



if you use ف then you are saying that you are going to the action right away; immediately


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## 6aalib

momai said:


> عفوا!
> I am sorry I made a mistake .I meant to say the present tense instead of "perfect tense".


Sorry I misread your post the first time.  I think you are saying that the sentence should use "takuun" instead of "kuntu" ? I think there are variations in different dialects that use present tense verbs, but I thought that that the basic MSA form is to use the past tense verb.  eg.  إذا كنت = if you are.     إذا قلت= if you said.  etc...



akhooha said:


> إذا كنت في المول فسأذهب إلى الدكان
> (I'm not really sure if you really _need_ the ف , but I think it's good form. If you mean _the_ store, then you _do_ need the ال )





Arabic_Police_999 said:


> if you use ف then you are saying that you are going to the action right away; immediately



OK.  I will try to remember that about using ف .  

I also want to know if the other one is correct:
لو كنت قي المول لَذهبت أمس

when you write لَذهبت أمس as a result clause, does it already translate to "then I would have went yesterday" or do you have to add something?


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## dkarjala

Since everyone is giving different answers, I want to clarify what the grammar books of Classical Arabic say. There is a lot of confusion about these. I will underline all the result clauses for added clarity.

1) The verb in both the condition and result *must* be either _perfect_ or _jussive_: i.e.:

ان فعلتَ فعلتَ or إن تفعلْ تفعلْ

2) If the result clause uses _anything__ other than perfect_, it *must* be preceded by ف (and not just because it is immediate): i.e.:

إن فعلت فـتفعلُ/فستفعلُ/فأنتَ

3) If the condition is unlikely or impossible to the speaker, you must use لو for 'if'; and in this case, the result *must* be in the past, and is often preceded by لـَ, i.e.:

لو فعلتَ لَفَعَلتَ
لو فعلت لما فعلت

4) In all but the last example, if you want to _negate_ the verb, it *must* be jussive

إن لم تفعلْ لم تفعلْ

These are the rules you will find in standard grammars of formal Arabic. Any aberrations are considered dialectal influence as far as I know.


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## suma

Hemza said:


> I think it's still "*إذا كنت*".
> Your sentence would be: "إذا كنت قريب من المحال امس فلماذا ما دخلت فيه"


 

simply put, if a precise tense is critical such as past tense, use a word such as   امس


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## 6aalib

Shukran for the responses.  I will bookmark this thread !


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## jack_1313

Hemza said:


> I think it's still "*إذا كنت*".
> Your sentence would be: "إذا كنت قريب من المحال امس فلماذا ما دخلت فيه"


Just a side note: I think this should be إذا كنت قريبا من


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## Hemza

Oups, may be, as I'm still learning SA, I can make mistakes because of my dialects . Thanks for correction ^^


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