# Swedish: Sovjetunionen är stor/stort



## Enona

Hello!

Please could you help me with one question about Swedish. I know the word Sovjetunionen has the common gender. Do ajectives and participles have then the appropriate ending?
Like in the following exemple:

Sovjetunionen är stor eller stort?
Some Swede says that they use "stort" in colloquial language in this sentence. But I'm not so sure if it's right.

Thank you so much in advance!


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## Warped

He/she is right. Places where people live are "ett" despite their names.

Sverige är stort.
Sovjetunionen är var stort.
Förenta staterna är stort.

If the place is considered geographically and not politically, then the article is the same as its normal word is.

Färöarna är små. (-öarna)
Östersjön är ganska smutsig. (-sjö)

(By the way, welcome to the forums.)


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## Enona

*Warped, *thank you so much for the explanation. It's clear now 

p.s. many thanks, I'm glad to have joined the forum, that's really a perfect place for those who learn foreign languages)


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## AutumnOwl

Warped said:


> He/she is right. Places where people live are "ett" despite their names.
> 
> Sverige är stort.
> Sovjetunionen är var stort.
> Förenta staterna är stort.
> 
> If the place is considered geographically and not politically, then the article is the same as its normal word is.
> 
> Färöarna är små. (-öarna)
> Östersjön är ganska smutsig. (-sjö)
> 
> (By the way, welcome to the forums.)


I would say that it has more to do with when we talk about a country without really consider it think about them as "land" (country) and it's "ett land". It's the same when talking about "län" and "landskap", in both cases it's "Skåne är stort" and "Blekinge är litet", and hills, "Matterhorn är stort". 
Then it's "en sjö" and "en ö", so it's natural that they are "små" and "smutsig", while "Bästeträsk är grunt", as it's "ett träsk", even if it's a lake really and not a swamp.


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## Kieppi

Warped said:


> He/she is right. Places where people live are "ett" despite their names.





AutumnOwl said:


> I would say that it has more to do with when we talk about a country without really consider it think about them as "land" (country) and it's "ett land". It's the same when talking about "län" and "landskap", in both cases it's "Skåne är stort" and "Blekinge är litet", and hills, "Matterhorn är stort".
> Then it's "en sjö" and "en ö", so it's natural that they are "små" and "smutsig", while "Bästeträsk är grunt", as it's "ett träsk", even if it's a lake really and not a swamp.



So if you usually decide whether to use _utrum _or _neutrum _with place names depending on the type of the place (e.g. _ett _land, _en _sjö), why does my dictionary say that the Finnish sea fortress _Sveaborg _(fi. _Suomenlinna_) is an _ett_-word? It is _*en *sjöfästning _and if you think about the name itself, the word _borg _is also an _en_-word. Is my dictionary wrong or is there some logic I just don't understand? Or maybe it's because Sveaborg is a place where people live, as Warped said?


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## AutumnOwl

Kieppi said:


> So if you usually decide whether to use _utrum _or _neutrum _with place names depending on the type of the place (e.g. _ett _land, _en _sjö), why does my dictionary say that the Finnish sea fortress _Sveaborg _(fi. _Suomenlinna_) is an _ett_-word? It is _*en *sjöfästning _and if you think about the name itself, the word _borg _is also an _en_-word. Is my dictionary wrong or is there some logic I just don't understand? Or maybe it's because Sveaborg is a place where people live, as Warped said?


Perhaps because it's considered to be Sveaborgs slott (eller herresäte), both of them are ett-ord: Lista över slott och herresäten i Finland – Wikipedia or possibly it was seen as "ett fäste". An other ett-ord for a fortess is "kastell", Kastell – Wikipedia , so there are several words that can explain why Sveaborg is"ett" and not "en."


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## Warped

AutumnOwl said:


> I would say that it has more to do with when we talk about a country without really consider it think about them as "land" (country) and it's "ett land". It's the same when talking about "län" and "landskap", in both cases it's "Skåne är stort" and "Blekinge är litet", and hills, "Matterhorn är stort".
> Then it's "en sjö" and "en ö", so it's natural that they are "små" and "smutsig", while "Bästeträsk är grunt", as it's "ett träsk", even if it's a lake really and not a swamp.



You have a point, but as I said, and as it's put easily, all places that are inhabited are ett. Those can be cities, countries, and continents. For example, even though Stockholm is a city "stad (en)," you say:

"Stockholm är vackert."

This also applies to the case of Färöarna. When you refer to it as a country, you say, "Jag bor på det vackra Färöarna." When you refer to it geographically (and not politically, administratively, or as an inhabited place), you say "Färöarna är små." (Or whatever adjective you want.)

Plural natural places, such as Kanarieöarna (not a country but a region) and Alperna, are in plural, like: "Alperna är höga." Natural places, such as oceans, lakes, rivers, islands, volcanoes, mountains, etc., are the same as their "normal word" would be.

I am pretty sure this can be applied to the case of Sveaborg.


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## Kieppi

AutumnOwl said:


> Perhaps because it's considered to be Sveaborgs slott (eller herresäte), both of them are ett-ord: Lista över slott och herresäten i Finland – Wikipedia or possibly it was seen as "ett fäste". An other ett-ord for a fortess is "kastell", Kastell – Wikipedia , so there are several words that can explain why Sveaborg is"ett" and not "en."


That makes sense. Thank you for your response!


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## AutumnOwl

Whether a place name is common gender (en-ord) or neuter gender (ett-ord) doesn't have to do with if the place is populated or not, as the names of countries, cities and so on, as well as seas, swamps and mountains are neuter gender, while lakes, rivers and oceans are common gender. See: www.mediesprak.fi - Språkråd It's probably something the Swedish Academy has decided.


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## Warped

Maybe not, but that is what Finnish students are taught. And it's a pretty good one, even though it may not be the official one; at least it's very precise.


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## AutumnOwl

Warped said:


> Maybe not, but that is what Finnish students are taught.


Could you explain what Finnish students are taught?


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## Warped

That all places that are populated have the gender ett. Even though it is not the "official rule," it is still precise and easy to remember.

Actually, everything I said in the post #7 is what Finnish students are being taught.


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