# gay



## Elisabeth

what is the difference in pronunciation between homosexuel(s) and homesexuelle(s) and can _gay_ be used in formal french?
Thanks


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## LV4-26

Elisabeth said:
			
		

> what is the difference in pronunciation between homosexuel(s) and homesexuelle(s) and can _gay_ be used in formal french?
> Thanks


None ......and
Yes (though I'm not quite sure - let's see what the others will say).


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## Jabote

There is no difference in the pronunciation between the two.

As to "gay", no it is not formal French. In fact it is not French at all with this spelling. Gai is the proper French spelling. However I don't think you can call it "formal" French, not any more than "gay" is formal in English. In both languages "homosexuel(le)" and "homosexual" are the formal words. "Gai" is everyday language in Quebec, however I am not sure whether it is used in France. You would have to check with someone who still lives there (I left 9 years ago and it was not used in this meaning then).


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## fetchezlavache

how formal ? it all depends...

jabote, the proper 'gai' spelling refers only to the 'merry' meaning of 'gay'. when it's used to replace 'homosexual' it's spelt 'gay'. having said, i'm glad you said it wasn't formal, that's what i wanted to answer in the first place, but i need to know how elisabeth intends 'formal' i think...


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## Elisabeth

So is the organisation "gay lib" an anglicism then? Maybe I should ask then if the el/elle at the end is pronounced the same as "elle" as in "elle a...". Thanks


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## Jabote

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> how formal ? it all depends...
> 
> jabote, the proper 'gai' spelling refers only to the 'merry' meaning of 'gay'. when it's used to replace 'homosexual' it's spelt 'gay'. having said, i'm glad you said it wasn't formal, that's what i wanted to answer in the first place, but i need to know how elisabeth intends 'formal' i think...


 
In Quebec I know it is spelled gay in "French" when used in the homosexual context. However I could not say that it is spelled the same in France, because as I explained I had never heard the word (whatever the spelling) used in France in this meaning before I left. Therefore I could use only the French proper spelling i.e. gai.

In any case it is an anglicism, and this only is enough to confirm that it is _*not*_ formal "French".


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## Jabote

Elisabeth said:
			
		

> So is the organisation "gay lib" an anglicism then? Maybe I should ask then if the el/elle at the end is pronounced the same as "elle" as in "elle a...". Thanks


 
Spot on Elisabeth, on both accounts.


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## renrah

What about the term "p.d.?"   (not sure if that's the spelling)  I remember hearing that used in France years ago.   Is is still used?  Does that have a negative, inappropriate connotation?


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## fetchezlavache

oh yes it's still used. *all * my gay friends use it to describe themselves. they never use 'gay' or 'homo' or whatnot. always 'pédé'. 

personally i don't like using it, because it's very derogatory, i always glare at them when they use it 

but it's definitely slang.


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## Jabote

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> oh yes it's still used. *all *my gay friends use it to describe themselves. they never use 'gay' or 'homo' or whatnot. always 'pédé'.
> 
> personally i don't like using it, because it's very derogatory, i always glare at them when they use it
> 
> but it's definitely slang.


 
So deregatory in fact that some people even use it as an insult ! When they want to insult a man that they disapprove of, they'll go "pédé, va !"


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## Auryn

Besides, 'pédé' is an abbreviation of 'pédéraste', which doesn't even have the same meaning as 'homosexual'.


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## le chat noir

Agreed, "pédé" is as ofensive for homosexuals as "nigger" could be for black people. That some homosexual use it to adress each other seems like an attempt to resist the still strong ostracism they are suffering from, by using the very language used to insult them. Just my personal thoughts, though.

"pédé" is unfortunately an extremely common insult, something like "faggot" or "fag" in English I think. It implies (in a machistic view of things) that some guy is not worth being called a man, that he has no courage, no honor, no strength.


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## timpeac

le chat noir said:
			
		

> Agreed, "pédé" is as ofensive for homosexuals as "nigger" could be for black people. That some homosexual use it to adress each other seems like an attempt to resist the still strong ostracism they are suffering from, by using the very language used to insult them. Just my personal thoughts, though.


 
Quite right. In this respect it is a bit like the word "queer" in English which is quite derogatory as an insult, but has become intellectualised so that you might see university courses such as "queer theory". I don't think that gay people use it amongst themselves, though, in the way that you sometimes hear black people call each other "nigger" and the way you say you can use "pédé".

By the way, reading the above, I get the impression that the French guys and gals amongst you are thinking that "gay" in English is more colloquial than it is. It has become really quite a normal term. For example you might well see a news reporter on the BBC or a quality newspaper comment that such-and-such politician is gay. You hear "homosexual" less and less in any context, maybe because it sounds quite "medical". Maybe "gay" in French is staying more colloquial simply because it is obviously an anglicism.


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## Jabote

timpeac said:
			
		

> By the way, reading the above, I get the impression that the French guys and gals amongst you are thinking that "gay" in English is more colloquial than it is. It has become really quite a normal term. For example you might well see a news reporter on the BBC or a quality newspaper comment that such-and-such politician is gay. You hear "homosexual" less and less in any context, maybe because it sounds quite "medical". Maybe "gay" in French is staying more colloquial simply because it is obviously an anglicism.


 
No, no tim, I did not mean that it was colloquial, I was just saying that if it is used in France now (as opposed to 10 years ago when I had never heard it used there yet), it is not the _*formal*_ term, the formal term (let's call it "official" term) is homosexuel, that's all ! I know it is not colloquial in English but it is not the "official" term either, that's what I meant, sorry if I was not clear !


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## timpeac

Jabote said:
			
		

> No, no tim, I did not mean that it was colloquial, I was just saying that if it is used in France now (as opposed to 10 years ago when I had never heard it used there yet), it is not the _*formal*_ term, the formal term (let's call it "official" term) is homosexuel, that's all ! I know it is not colloquial in English but it is not the "official" term either, that's what I meant, sorry if I was not clear !


 
Ahh, ok. Yes "official" term is better, I think, in this context because we are talking about language and "formal" is the normal term used to mean "high" register (eg the opposite of colloquial).

I suppose, though, that what I am suggesting is that "gay" is slowly becoming the "official" term. It's not there yet, but it really is quite unusual to hear "homosexual". In fact the only time you do really hear it is either in medical terms or, I think, when vicars and the like discuss it in terms of religion.


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## HistofEng

so, does one say 'Il est pédé' or 'Il est *un* pédé' ?


What about for lesbians? are there any derogatory terms used frequently?

like 'dyke' in English, perhaps


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## ob1

gouine is the equivalent for a lesbian


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## pieanne

No, I'd say "gouine" is equivalent to "dyke". "Gouine" is not a nice word, and neither is "pédé".
Where I live (in France), "gay" (spelled just like this) is not offensive, and it is used. 
"Homo", as far as I know, refers to both lesbians and homosexuals.


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## salut!

oh yes it's still used. *all *my gay friends use it to describe themselves. they never use 'gay' or 'homo' or whatnot. always 'pédé'. 

personally i don't like using it, because it's very derogatory, i always glare at them when they use it 

but it's definitely slang.


Instructive! esp about "pede" (sorry no accents on my clavier). I always thought it very insulting! esp as used by some Antilles friends I had. anyhow....


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## Outsider

> gay
> 
> 1178, "full of joy or mirth," *from O.Fr. gai* "gay, merry," perhaps from Frank. *gahi (cf. O.H.G. wahi "pretty"). [...]
> 
> source


The twists and turns of language are curious, aren't they?


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## timpeac

salut! said:
			
		

> oh yes it's still used. *all *my gay friends use it to describe themselves. they never use 'gay' or 'homo' or whatnot. always 'pédé'.
> 
> personally i don't like using it, because it's very derogatory, i always glare at them when they use it
> 
> but it's definitely slang.
> 
> 
> Instructive! esp about "pede" (sorry no accents on my clavier). I always thought it very insulting! esp as used by some Antilles friends I had. anyhow....


 
They may call themselves that - but I would advise caution for a third party to call them that, it could well be taken as insulting. I think it is similar to some black people calling each other "nigger" - I don't think they would appreciate a white person doing the same.

Edit - and checking back in this thread - which is very old - I can see that this point has already been made.


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## SoupleCommeLeVent

Il est toujours le cas que quelques francais disent "gai" pour signifier "merry", ce qui n'est plus possible en anglais!


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## HistofEng

So is 'pede' an adjective or a noun

Does one say, 'Il est pede' or 'Il est *un* pede' ?


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## romenk

Both.

pédéraste   _vieilli   _nm & adj   homosexual


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## Outsider

SoupleCommeLeVent said:
			
		

> Il est toujours le cas que quelques francais disent "gai" pour signifier "merry", ce qui n'est plus possible en anglais!


Bon, c'est certainement "old-fashioned" de dire "gay" dans le sens de "joyeux", en anglais. Néanmoins, on le trouve encore dans les diccionaires.



			
				HistofEng said:
			
		

> So is 'pede' an adjective or a noun
> 
> Does one say, 'Il est pede' or 'Il est *un* pede' ?


C'est le diminutif de "pédéraste", "pederast".


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## The Servant

HistofEng said:
			
		

> So is 'pede' an adjective or a noun
> 
> Does one say, 'Il est pede' or 'Il est *un* pede' ?


"Il est pédé" or "C'est un pédé" are "correct".
"Homo" or "gay" are the most used terms, even at TV news ("la communauté gay" is frenquently used).


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## HistofEng

thanks for the help


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## Samo

French gai English Gay same meaning merry or happy. English gay not negativeFrench gay (anglicism)also not negative.  pede and faggot/ fag are negative. but yes gays often use the negative forms but straights (heteros)should not.


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## jimreilly

Il y avait des occasions quand j'ai utilisé "gay" pour dire "homosexuel" en parlant avec des amis africains, et ils ne me comprendent pas corrrectement. Qu'est qu'on dit en Afrique francophone?


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## Third_Shadow

In the French language do they ever use "bay day?" Yes, it does sound like the 2nd toilet thing, but I am asking because Vietnamese use "bay day" for "homosexual/gay," which is used in the their/our/my language.

Vietnamese was somewhat made from the French language (which still include borrowed words from mixture of places, specifically Chu Nom, Chinese, French), by a Portuguese man... Like "ca ra vat (caravate)" for tie, "ao so mi (chemise)" for button dress shirt.

I assumed they are some French that used the word "bay day," because I was certain I heard it in one or two movies. So, I continued using it.

Has anyone else heard it used?


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## wildan1

Third_Shadow said:


> In the French language do they ever use "bay day?" Yes, it does sound like the 2nd toilet thing, but I am asking because Vietnamese use "bay day" for "homosexual/gay," which is used in the their/our/my language.
> 
> Vietnamese was somewhat made from the French language (which still include borrowed words from mixture of places, specifically Chu Nom, Chinese, French), by a Portuguese man... Like "ca ra vat (caravate)" for tie, "ao so mi (chemise)" for button dress shirt.
> 
> I assumed they are some French that used the word "bay day," because I was certain I heard it in one or two movies. So, I continued using it.
> 
> Has anyone else heard it used?


 
I think you are hearing the word _pédé_, discussed above

_*"bédé"* (B.D.= bande dessinée)_ means _comics_


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## Tweety20

To summarise

gay : gay
lesbian : lesbienne
homosexual : homosexuel
fag : pédé or pd ( we use it really often when there isnot gay with us, it's common but a bit pejorative word ) 
gouine : butch


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## wildan1

Tweety20 said:


> To summarise
> 
> fag : pédé or pd ( we use it really often when there isnot gay with us, it's common but a bit pejorative word )


 
_het/breeder_ = non-gay person (gay people use it when there is not a heterosexual person around, also a bit pejorative!)


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## Tweety20

lol sorry wildan1 i would say exactly the opposite of your sentence,

gay person don't like to be called pédé so, be careful when you use it !

do you copy?


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## pieanne

Tweety20 said:


> To summarise
> 
> gay : gay
> lesbian : lesbienne
> homosexual : homosexuel
> fag : pédé or pd ( we use it really often when there isnot gay with us, it's common but a bit pejorative word )
> gouine : butch


There's also "dyke" for "gouine"


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