# salvation from bread and circuses



## salux

Can someone please translate "salvation from bread and circuses" to latin for me?  thanks


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## CapnPrep

You can find the translation and original source of the phrase _bread and circuses_ here, but without further context/explanation it will be difficult to provide an accurate translation of your full expression. What kind of salvation do you have in mind? Does it come from bread and circuses, or does it save one from bread and circuses? Etc.


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## salux

The salvation would be saving one from bread and circuses


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## Lovetall

maybe: salus ex pane et circensibus


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## lacrimae

I suggest
 Liberatio ex Pane et Circensibus

or the imperative
 Libera(nos, te, me etc... ) ex Pane et Circensibus


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## salux

Whats the difference between "Liberatio" and "salus" ?


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## XiaoRoel

*Salus a pane et circensibus*. La procedencia se expresa mejor por _*a/ab/abs*_. _Ex_ requiere un interior del que sacar algo para afuera y _de_ es demasiado general.


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## Stoicorum_simia

Both Latin and English read to me as though you are expecting salvation to come from bread and circuses.


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## lucas-sp

What about something like "Liberemur ex pane et circensibus"? I think that makes it a bit more clear that the desire is that we _be_​ freed.


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## uchi.m

lucas-sp said:


> What about something like "Liberemur ex pane et circensibus"? I think that makes it a bit more clear that the desire is that we _be_​ freed.


The passive is better


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## lucas-sp

I think planning a play-trip to Disneyland might land the OP back in the midst of the bread and circuses from which s/he was hoping to be liberated. But maybe once s/he's safely ensconced _in_ Disneyland, _ex_ would be a better preposition, at least.


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## uchi.m

Sim, se o pão e o circo são um lugar, então o _ex_ é a saída.
Yes, if by bread and circus you mean some place, then _ex_ is the exit.
Mientras estás entre pan y circo e a tí deseas la salida, elijas _ex_.


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## XiaoRoel

> *Ab* signifies direction _from_ the object, but often _towards_ the speaker; compare *de*, _down from_, and *ex*,_ out of_.


(From Allen and Greenough's _Latin Grammar_.)


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## Stoicorum_simia

lucas-sp said:


> What about something like "Liberemur ex pane et circensibus"? I think that makes it a bit more clear that the desire is that we _be_​ freed.


Yes, I think _salus_ is a large part of the problem; it doesn't necessarily imply deliverance from something, less than _soteria _in Greek.


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## lucas-sp

Xiao, I'm frightfully sorry to confess that my Portugese isn't... well, it really isn't much of anything. I am interested in your point, though. 

I see that "ex" implies an interior from which we seek to be delivered, a space inside of which we currently are. But at the same time, I understand "panem e circenses" metaphorically to describe a socio-political context - something like a zeitgeist (although I hate that word) or current political mood. It's a culture in which we all are entrenched. Does that constitute an interior from which escape is sought, an environment "out of" which we want to move? Or can "ex" only be used for physical spaces?


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## XiaoRoel

Para espacios no físicos rigen las mismas reglas que para espacios físicos. Ex "desde dentro", ab "procedente de", y de "desde o de" en general. 
Un saludo.


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## uchi.m

<< -- Response to deleted post. -->>
_Pan y circo_ no es un lugar físico? Qué sería, entonces?
Dos saludos.


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## Cagey

A Roman circus may have been a physical place, but 'bread' isn't; 'bread and circuses' in combination is a metaphorical allusion.  As the Wiki article linked to in post #2 has it:
"*Bread and Circuses*" (or *bread and games*) (from Latin: _panem et circenses_) is a metaphor for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace.
​ If you asked to be freed from 'bread and circuses', you are asking to be freed from a populace pursuing trivial values, or simplistic efforts to manipulate the populace or something like that. It seems to me that you are not asking to be released from _within_ bread and circuses.  

Here is what _Lewis and Shor_t say about _libero_:
In gen., _to free, release, extricate, deliver_ (cf. levo) a person or thing from something (an obligation, debt, difficulty, etc.); constr.: _aliquem (aliquid) ab aliqua re_, with simple abl.;​
They have no comment about constructions used with _salus_ (the noun).


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## Cagey

salux said:


> Whats the difference between "Liberatio" and "salus" ?


_Liberatio_ is 'freedom / liberation'
_Salus_ is 'safety, deliverance'.    

Part of the discussion above concerns which of the two most closely suits this context.   Some of the suggestions use the verb form, _liberare_, "set free, release", and which is often used in similar contexts.

Another part of the discussion has to do deciding which Latin preposition to use for 'from'.  *Ex/ e *is used with movement outside a physical location (as in the English word, _exit_). * Ab/a/abs* is used for separation and can be used for abstractions, as when you are liberated from slavery, for instance.  I am copying the suggestions as written.

_salus ex pane et circensibus _                = safety [salvation] from bread and circuses.  
_Liberatio ex Pane et Circensibus_ = Liberation from Bread and Circuses
_Libera_(_nos, te, me_ etc... ) _ex Pane et Circensibus_.                 = Liberate (us, you, me, etc., ) from Bread and Circuses. 

_Salus a pane et circensibus_. = Safety / salvation from bread and circuses. 
_Liberemur ex pane et circensibus_ = May we be freed / liberated from bread and circuses.

I trust that if people feel my translation of their suggestion is inadequate, they will feel free to offer a correction.


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## XiaoRoel

Assentior.


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