# o suru, suru



## KaleNovice

Karlalou, how to tell if a noun can be followed by suru? 

Mod note: Thread split from here.


----------



## karlalou

KaleNovice said:


> Karlalou, how to tell if a noun can be followed by suru?


mm.. Let me see..
調べもの（しらべもの researching）をする [Not usually 調べものする]
炒めもの（いためもの frying）をする [Not usually 炒めものする]
洗い物（あらいもの）をする (do the dishes) [Not usually 洗い物する]
洗濯物をする (do the laundry) [Not usually 洗濯物する]
買い物（かいもの shopping）をする [We may say 買い物する casually]
考えごと（かんがえごと thinking）をする [Not usually 考えごとする]
We might sometimes drop を for any of above while speaking casually, for example, 調べものしててみつけたんですけど. For 買い物, it seems we are more familiar to use it as 買い物する, and a dictionary also shows it with する, but it still sounds casual.

落書き（らくがき）をする, 落書きする (doodle or draw graffiti) both work.
おしゃべりをする、おしゃべりする (chat) both work.
お手伝いをする、お手伝いする (join in and help someone do something) both work.

意味する (Not usually 意味をする)
（～の）形[姿・様子]をする (Not 形[姿・様子]する in modern Japanese)

質問[勉強・調査・読書・練習・洗濯・料理・掃除・休憩・運動・旅行・旅・電話・食事]をする,
質問[勉強・調査・読書・練習・洗濯・料理・掃除・休憩・運動・旅行・旅・電話・食事]する
both work.

I think roughly we prefer with を for nouns read in _kun_ reading, and, regardless of _kun _or _on_ reading, it sounds like a little more care is taken when it's with を.


----------



## Flaminius

karlalou said:


> 質問[勉強・調査・読書・洗濯・料理・掃除・休憩・運動・旅行・旅・電話・食事]をする,
> 質問[勉強・調査・読書・洗濯・料理・掃除・休憩・運動・旅行・旅・電話・食事]する
> both work.


Of the list above, 休憩 is used mostly with _suru_ and seldom with _o suru_.


----------



## Alkanna

休憩をとる？


----------



## karlalou

You can say 休憩をする or 食事をする or 休憩をとる or 食事をとる. No problem.
休憩をする is as normal as 勉強をする, and these are just a little more careful wording than without を.


----------



## Flaminius

The Kotonoha Corpus shows a very distinct pattern.  The distribution for N+_o suru_ and N+suru has two groups of patterns; one that opts for _o suru_ and one that opts for _suru_.

　　　をする, する
勉強　125, 674
休憩　5, 50
食事　378, 80


----------



## SoLaTiDoberman

Flaminius said:


> The Kotonoha Corpus shows a very distinct pattern.  The distribution for N+_o suru_ and N+suru has two groups of patterns; one that opts for _o suru_ and one that opts for _suru_.
> 
> をする, する
> 勉強　125, 674
> 休憩　5, 50
> 食事　378, 80



Could you also give me (us) the numbers with をとる?
I'm not familiar with using that.


----------



## Flaminius

Okay, here is the revised table.

　　　をする, する, をとる
勉強　125, 674, NA
休憩　5, 50, 6
食事　378, 80, 71


The bottom of the linked page has the Disclaimer button like the image below.







Click it, read the disclaimer and press OK.  Then you are ready to go.


----------



## SoLaTiDoberman

I think the result of #8 very interesting, because it is different from my personal feeling.
I thought "休息を" had better collocation with "とる", than with "する."
I thought "食事を" had good collocation with "する" and "とる" equally, or maybe "とる" was better.
My feeling turned out to be wrong (as it happens all the time).


----------



## frequency

KaleNovice, you know we often say する + noun.
テニスをする。宿題をする。
But strangely you _don't_ say
ギターをする。休暇をする。

Why? We don't know! We have no consistency in the choice!

Some are two way:
残業をする・残業する are okay, but 残業する is just a popular way.
買い物をする・買い物する？ The first looks better.
Why? We have no consistency; that's the way it is, unfortunately.


----------



## KaleNovice

Thank you for all the useful answers! I thought there is a standard rule we can observe with the use of noun+ suru but I turned out to be wrong. Guess reading more is the only way to get myself familiar with all these collocations. Thank you once again !


----------



## frequency

I forgot to say that


frequency said:


> 残業をする・買い物する


they are not particularly errors, and we say so sometimes. The differences are not as serious as you have sleepless night


----------

