# Farther = more distant, further = to a greater extent?



## mzsweeett

Ok fellow foreros........
Once again my sister and I are discussing words... we are confused with farther and further...neither one of us can make a clear distinction.
I looked in OED and this is what I get:
_*farther*_ = more distant   /   _*further*_ = to a greater extent; moreover;  see usage on farther.  

Are these two synonyms or what?  To me it looks like a AE/BE difference.  Can someone please elaborate?  

Thanks a lot

Sweet T.


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## remosfan

For me, the theoretical difference is that "farther" refers to actual distance and "further" to everything else, but in practice there is absolutely no difference between the two. (I guess "further" in the sense of "furthermore" can't be replaced by "farther", but I don't use it to mean that anyway).


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## Eddie

I agree with Remosfan. I use both words at my whim. There are many distinctions between words in English that are completely ignored.


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## mzsweeett

So then basically I can use either one interchangeably..... without fear of misuse??  

Sweet T.


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## CBFelix

Longman dictionary says; 

When you are talking or writing about real places and distance you can use either farther, farthest or further, furthest
e.g. farther/further down the road.   /What's the farthest/furthest distance you've ever run?

Further (but *not farther*) is also used with the meaning 'more', 'extra', 'additional' etc. 
e.g. A college of furher education.  / For futher information (not farther) write to the ....


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## NTFS

Hi,
Hope this helps....

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/wftwarch.pl?060805


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## remosfan

CBFelix said:
			
		

> Longman dictionary says;
> 
> When you are talking or writing about real places and distance you can use either farther, farthest or further, furthest
> e.g. farther/further down the road.   /What's the farthest/furthest distance you've ever run?
> 
> Further (but *not farther*) is also used with the meaning 'more', 'extra', 'additional' etc.
> e.g. A college of furher education.  / For futher information (not farther) write to the ....



The last is very true, and that last bit is a difference in my speech too. But for me at least, farther is not limited to "real" distances. E.g. "Montreal went farther in the playoffs than Boston" is fine to me.


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## cuchuflete

If you are dealing with someone like me, who had a huge harridan for an eighth grade English teacher, *farther *is used only for distance, and further for conceptual extent.

I don't "correct" people who mix and match...it just doesn't matter enough.  I like precision in language, when I'm not striving for vagueness, so I do distinguish between these words.


cheers,
Cuchu




PS...just in case....




> harridan
> A	noun
> 1 	harridan
> a scolding (even vicious) old woman


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## Eddie

Yes, MZ. Most people don't know the difference; and those who do, such Cuchu, me, and the other respondents to this thread, can choose to follow the _rules_ we were taught in school or not.


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## Inara

Hi!
this topic has been (was?) discussed already here:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=8498&highlight=further+farther
By the way, do you pronounce the same way both words?
Inara


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## panjandrum

I think I would only use further, myself.

Do I pronounce both words the same way? 
If reading aloud, I would pronounce them slightly differently - rather as I would pronounce far and fur differently


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## foxfirebrand

I think _farther_ is not only more widespread in AE than BE, but also in the north as opposed to the South.  In fact to my ear, admittedly a little rusty in southrenisms, _farther_ has a distinctly Yankee ring to it.

Not only is _further_ much preferred, the _r_ is so unstressed you hear _futther,_ as in "he thowed it futther'n a country mahl."  The slight spoonerism I mentioned above really is the pronunciation you hear for _Southern._ 

One difference between _farther_ and _further_ that helps me sort things out a little is that the latter can also be used as a verb.  You could "farther" something in the South, I guess, but you might end up paying chahld support.


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## mzsweeett

Inara said:
			
		

> Hi!
> this topic has been (was?) discussed already here:
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=8498&highlight=further+farther
> By the way, do you pronounce the same way both words?
> Inara


Thanks Inara for that.... I did look to see if I was being repetitive or not.... how did I miss that?

Sweet T.


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## cuchuflete

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> You could "farther" something in the South, I guess, but you might end up paying chahld support.



Linguistic patrimony?


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## mzsweeett

Thank you one and all for assisting me in my dilemma...... fresh coffee and past*r*ies (not to be confused with _pasties_..... ) for all!!!  

Hugs,

Sweet T.


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## foxfirebrand

But I am confused-- pasties *are* pastries, aren't they?

http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/history/pasty.htm

What else could you possibly have been talking about?  

[emoticon here, but they don't make one with a mock-nonplussed expression]


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## cuchuflete

Futhamawh, 

you are welcome to copy and use any of these...



			
				foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> But I am confused-- pasties *are* pastries, aren't they?
> 
> http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/history/pasty.htm
> 
> What else could you possibly have been talking about?
> 
> [emoticon here, but they don't make one with a mock-nonplussed expression]


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## claude23

Hi,


If someone wants to go to a certain place. May I say , go this way then it is further away or further up  ?


Thank you,

Claude.


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## whatonearth

I don't really understand your question...?


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## maxiogee

If the person is trying to get from London to Bristol, the shortest way is to go direct. If someone asks if they should go to Bristol from London - by way of Birmingham, then you would say "That is a longer route" but it would not be "further away" - Bristol is always going to be the same distance from London no matter what route the traveller takes, it cannot be "further away".

"Further away" can only be used when comparing how far two, or more, different places are from a third place. Manchester is close to Liverpool, Edinburgh is further away (from Liverpool than Manchester is).


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## *Cowgirl*

Wouldn't it be farther away? BE AE?


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## panjandrum

Farther should only be used to mean more far 
Further can be used to mean in addition, extra, more advanced.
In BE we can use further to mean further or farther, so lots of people, Panj included, always use further to avoid having to think too hard.

Check Here.


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## claude23

Sorry I didn t explain it well !


I meant I am looking for my way to a certain place... for example I am in Baker st and I want to go to Baggot st. so I ask someone on the street who said keep going straight it is futher up . I was wondering if i could use further away instead of further up.



Thank you,

Claude


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## *Cowgirl*

Probably not

further along would be fine though


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## claude23

By the way is it farther away or further away ?


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## *Cowgirl*

either one, see panj above


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## cuchuflete

Hi Claude...
Panj suggests further, while I would say farther.  I try--not always successfully--to use farther to refer to geographic distance (think of far away) and further for all other kinds of separation.

regards,

Cuchu


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## frog.arch

Hi,
According the sentence Look no further, We couldn't say Look no farther.
So there are any diffrences between FURTHER and FARTHER?
Thanks
Frog


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## panjandrum

Please use the forum search facility to find the several previous threads that discussed this topic. If you still have questions, either ask them on one of those threads or if necessary come back here.

A short summary:
In AE and BE, farther may only be used where physical distance is involved.

In AE, further may only be used where physical distance is not involved.

In BE, further may be used in all contexts including where farther would also be acceptable.

As a result, there are many BE speakers who don't use farther at all, because further is always right


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## foxfirebrand

I would only add that AE is not uniform in the use of _further,_ which has a wider range of meanings in Southern AE.  And, for good or ill, it tends to be pronounced _futther._ 
.


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## heidita

Dear friends, it has happened again. Only the other day I was mentioning one of my students marked down for saying"
If I were here....

And on Friday I had this piece of news: another student got down-marked for using farther instead of further.

The exercise was simply using the comparative and superlative of the adjective, like this, in a row:

far   _further _ _furthest_

I told her she could use just as well

farther and farthest.

So she did and was promptly down-marked. Why? 

"The comparative _farther _is *regular* and the teacher asked for an irregular one!" I mean.....

Well, in any case, would you personally rather use farther or further. Not a very interesting question, but anyway....

(down-marked with a hyphen?)


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## Siberia

*FARTHER* denotes physical advancement in distance. 
*FURTHER* denotes advancement to greater degree, as in time.


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## heidita

Siberia, do we agree that hey are both _irregular_?


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## Siberia

Yes, they are both irregular.


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## Robbo

cuchuflete said:


> Hello Moviefans,
> I agree with you.
> 1) has two correct answers, farther and faster


 

Parochialism aside, what's wrong with further?

Robbo


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## gasman hydralico

in every day english farther is not used as much as further  it just sounds better even if there is no difference in the meaning


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## Robbo

As discussed before, subject to regional preferences, further and farther are often interchangeable when referring to physical or metaphorical distance. 

But there are several other usages where they are *not* interchangeable in BE (others will speak for their regional variations).  For example:

He is studying further mathematics at university. (=higher) 

Due to lack of evidence, the police decided to take no further action. (=continuing, ongoing  or additional)

She's trying to further her career by studying for an MBA.  (verb)(=advance, assist, improve)

Further to your recent letter, I am pleased to tell you that .... (
=regarding, following or as a result of)

Further analysis revealed Polonium 210 poisoning. (=additional)

I hope this helps a bit!

Robbo


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## Thomas1

heidita said:


> Dear friends, it has happened again. Only the other day I was mentioning one of my students marked down for saying"
> If I were here....
> 
> And on Friday I had this piece of news: another student got down-marked for using farther instead of further.
> 
> The exercise was simply using the comparative and superlative of the adjective, like this, in a row:
> 
> far _further __furthest_
> 
> I told her she could use just as well
> 
> farther and farthest.
> 
> So she did and was promptly down-marked. Why?
> 
> "The comparative _farther _is *regular* and the teacher asked for an irregular one!" I mean.....
> 
> Well, in any case, would you personally rather use farther or further. Not a very interesting question, but anyway....
> 
> (down-marked with a hyphen?)


The thing is that _further/furthest _is so much prefered that it is simply used in all contexts. This is not the case with _farther/farthest_ which occupies the niche of physical distance, and as far as I am concerned I'd really find it as a sign of a good language comprehension and advancement of a student who used it in a correct context. Nevertheless, it is flagged as wrong when used in different ones than the abovementioned since it simply cannot, according to textbooks, be employed in a more figurative sense. Thus, when your student was supposed to do an exercise by simply filling in the gaps with appropriate forms of comparatives/superlatives the teacher could find the _a_ versions as inappropraite since he/she supposed that only the general forms were to be included not the ones used very sparingly and with a limited range of usages. It really depends on the exercise but I think that a student should learn to use the general forms and then the more advanced ones so that he/she knows how to use them.


Tom


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## heidita

Thank you Tomas.

No, the girl is 11. Not advanced.

The exercise was very simple:

Put the comparative and the superlative:

far

good

bad

etc.

And the teacher refuses to up-mark her. I am known as a pig-head but this woman beats me.


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## Gutenberg

heidita said:


> Dear friends, it has happened again. Only the other day I was mentioning one of my students marked down for saying"
> If I were here....
> 
> And on Friday I had this piece of news: another student got down-marked for using farther instead of further.
> 
> The exercise was simply using the comparative and superlative of the adjective, like this, in a row:
> 
> far _further __furthest_
> 
> I told her she could use just as well
> 
> farther and farthest.
> 
> So she did and was promptly down-marked. Why?
> 
> "The comparative _farther _is *regular* and the teacher asked for an irregular one!" I mean.....
> 
> Well, in any case, would you personally rather use farther or further. Not a very interesting question, but anyway....
> 
> (down-marked with a hyphen?)


 
Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

farther, fartherest, farthest, further, furtherest, furthest (advs., adjs.)


Use either farther or further as an adjective for literal distance (The airport is farther [further] than I had figured), but also use further to mean “additional,” as in She gave a further opinion that evening. (The adjective further used to be limited to such figurative uses, just as farther continues to be applied only to literal distance.) As adverbs, farther and further are nearly interchangeable today, although further is much more frequently used: We walked further [occasionally farther] today than ever before. He expanded further [rarely farther] on his original proposal.
<<... excess quoted text removed ...>>
I hope it helps...


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## MarcB

The OED gives this for both BE and AE: (Webster agress)
— USAGE Is there any difference between *further* and *farther*? In the sense ‘at, to, or by a greater distance’ they may be used interchangeably: _she moved further down the train_ and _she moved farther down the train_ are both correct. However *further* is a much commoner word, and in addition it is used in certain abstract contexts, for example in references to time, in which it would be unusual to substitute *farther*, e.g. _have you anything further to say?_; _without further delay_.


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## danielfranco

So it's "far-farther-farthest." I suppose then the "normal" word for "further-furthest" is "fur". [Okay, fine, lame joke....]

"How much farther 'til we get there?"
"It's the furthest thing from my mind."

I can't remember ever learning these words as a set of a vocabulary list, but only learned them through common usage. I didn't even know until today that there were rules about it. Coolness. That's what WRF's are for.


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## gaer

heidita said:


> Thank you Tomas.
> 
> No, the girl is 11. Not advanced.
> 
> The exercise was very simple:
> 
> Put the comparative and the superlative:
> 
> far
> 
> good
> 
> bad
> 
> etc.
> 
> And the teacher refuses to up-mark her. I am known as a pig-head but this woman beats me.


You are dealing with a very close-minded and unfair individual, I think.

These are both possible, for all the reasons given:

far, farther, farthest
far, further, furthest

Without context it is absolutely impossible, in my opinion, to guess which set of answers is desired.

Gaer


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## stranger in your midst

Farther is used literally, e.g. Paris is farther from London than Birmingham.

Further is used abstractly, e.g. I would further argue that...

That's all !


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## Dimcl

gasman hydralico said:


> i*I*n every day *everyday *e*E*nglish*,* farther is not used as much as further*; *it just sounds better*,* even if there is no difference in the meaning*.*


 
I hope you don't mind, Gasman. I think we're supposed to try and keep our writing in this forum as "proper" as possible.


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## stephenlearner

Hi,
Please have a look at these two groups of sentences. A was asking B to walk up. 

A: Walk up. 
(B walked up.) 
A: *Walk a little further. *

A: Walk up.
(B walked up.) 
A: *Walk further up.* 


Does the *former *further mean the same as the *latter* further? I think not. 
I think we can say "walk a little further/*farther*", but I don't think we can say "walk *farther *up". 

What do you think?


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## gaer

stephenlearner said:


> Hi,
> Please have a look at these two groups of sentences. A was asking B to walk up.
> 
> A: Walk up.
> (B walked up.)
> A: *Walk a little further. *
> 
> A: Walk up.
> (B walked up.)
> A: *Walk further up.*
> 
> 
> Does the *former *further mean the same as the *latter* further? I think not.
> I think we can say "walk a little further/*farther*", but I don't think we can say "walk *farther *up".
> 
> What do you think?


I think this is the best answer:



MarcB said:


> The OED gives this for both BE and AE: (Webster agress)
> — USAGE Is there any difference between *further* and *farther*? In the sense ‘at, to, or by a greater distance’ they may be used interchangeably: _she moved further down the train_ and _she moved farther down the train_ are both correct. However *further* is a much commoner word, and in addition it is used in certain abstract contexts, for example in references to time, in which it would be unusual to substitute *farther*, e.g. _have you anything further to say?_; _without further delay_.


To be safe use "further" when "farther" won't work. We obviously cannot say "farthermore" in place of "furthermore". No one will say, "Do you have anything *farther* to say."

In all other cases it is a matter of feel and preference.

Farther up, further up...

Both of these work for me. It seems to me that in BE "further" is used more frequently. I see no grammatical advantage to either one.


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