# FR: ma naissance, qui/que suivit de près la mort de mon père



## History Detective

Hi, all!  I'm doing some research about the Marquis de Lafayette, and I have a quote from his memoirs that I could use some help with.  The quote in question is...

"Il serait...trop minutieux de m'appesantir sur les détails de ma naissance, qui suivit de près la mort de mon père à Minden…"

It sounds as if he is saying that his birth followed his father's death at the Battle of Minden, but could it instead mean his birth was followed by his father's death?

I am very curious, because in another statement he says...
"Mon père, que jen'ai pas connu, n'ayant que deux ans lorsqu'il fut tué, était aimé..."

This sounds to me that he was no more than 2 years old when his father was killed.  Does this sound correct?

Thank you for your help!  I look forward to hearing from you!


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## vsop44

Your second attempt is right , it is ... of my birth , that was followed shortly/soon after by my father's death .

ETA   welcone   to  the  forum  History  detective !


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## History Detective

Thank you so much, vsop44!  That just made my day to know the answer!


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## florence a

Then it should be: ma naissance *que *suivit de près la mort de mon père.


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## History Detective

Thanks, florence a!  Would the difference between que and qui make any difference to which event follows which, or would this just be a side note?


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## florence a

Yes, a big difference.
qui = subject
que = complement


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## History Detective

Perhaps this is why historians often debate whether the marquis' father died in 1757 (just before his birth) or 2 years later...?


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## vsop44

No  the  text  is  clear   whether   with qui  or   que  and  it  is  confirmed  by  the  second  phrase    , my  father   whom I  have never known ,being  only  2  years old  when  he  was  killed ...

I  wish Florence   would  have  told  you  that  beside  her grammar lesson .


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## harrythelm

Désolé, vsop, mais Florence a raison. On comprend deux choses différentes avec "qui" ou "que." Il se trouve qu'il y a une erreur dans la citation. HD aurait dû écrire :  "que suivit de près…" (pas qui). His father died shortly after he was born.


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## vsop44

harrythelm said:


> Désolé, vsop, mais Florence a raison. On comprend deux choses différentes avec "qui" ou "que." Il se trouve qu'il y a une erreur dans la citation. HD aurait dû écrire : "que suivit de près…" (pas qui). His father died shortly after he was born.



Ok Harrythehelm , I get it now . I read it wrong but translated it right . My apologies to Florence .


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## florence a

Don't worry about it.


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## Wordsmyth

In support of what florence and harry were saying (in case any future readers are still confused):

- "ma naissance, *qui* _[sujet] _suivit de près la mort de mon père _[complément]_" translates as "my birth, which _[subject]_ closely followed my father's death _[object]_"

- "ma naissance, *que* _[complément]_ suivit de près la mort de mon père _[sujet]_" translates as "my birth, which _[object] _my father's death _[subject]_ followed closely".

Ws


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## petit1

His birth followed his father's death.


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## Nicomon

Hi everyone,

I agree that it should be « *que *». And this is in fact what's written on *this page*. I'm not sure the link will work for everyone. If it doesn't, try googling (like I did, and with the quotation marks) "que suivit de près la mort de mon père".

For the sentence to mean the same thing with « _qui _» you'd need to write: _.... qui *fut *suivie de près *par... 

*_*Edit : *@ petit. Your answer is what the sentence, as quoted with « _qui_ », sounds like. Therefore a good translation. 
But in reality, his father's death shortly followed his birth. He was 2 year old when his father died. Sooo... there is a typo in the citation.


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## History Detective

Thank you so much to everyone who replied to my question!  And thank you, Nicomon, for supplying the link--exactly what I needed to verify the answer!  Now the History Detective can get to work with some further research in confidence of accuracy...


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## pointvirgule

Pour confirmer encore plus : La Fayette est né le 6 septembre 1757 et la bataille de Minden, où son père fut tué, a eu lieu le 1er août 1759. Il avait donc (presque) deux ans lorsque son père est mort.


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