# Hindi/Urdu: ढूँढ़ना



## panjabigator

Hello all,

I have often seen ढूँढना written as ढूँढ़ना here in India.  Is there another pronunciation that I am unaware of or this a misprint? (I've also seen it with two dots, one under each ढ).

Regards,
PG


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## omlick

panjabigator said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have often seen ढूँढना written as ढूँढ़ना here in India. Is there another pronunciation that I am unaware of or this a misprint? (I've also seen it with two dots, one under each ढ).
> 
> Regards,
> PG


 
The standard spelling is ढूँढ़ना ڈھونڑھنا as far as I know.   But both pronunciatons are accepted in practice.


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## bakshink

What are the other spellings Omlick?
This is only how it is written. The one with dot under it is  another form of "RR"

   तुम ठीक तरह से नहीं पढ़ोगे तो तुम्हें थप्पड़ पड़ेंगे।


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## omlick

bakshink said:


> What are the other spellings Omlick?
> This is only how it is written. The one with dot under it is another form of "RR"
> 
> तुम ठीक तरह से नहीं पढ़ोगे तो तुम्हें थप्पड़ पड़ेंगे।


 
The correct/standard  spelling is ढूँढ़ना , with the dot under the second ढ,  and that is that.  I don't vouch for the pronunciation, only the correct spelling.  If not then every dictionary I have is incorrect.


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## bakshink

Using "language tools" in google search on typing "find" you get the following result 
ढूँढना
http://translate.google.com/translate_s?hl=en&clss=&q=find&tq=&sl=en&tl=hi

The word is spoken as Ddoonddna and so should it be written. For knowing more about the pronounciation of Hindi alphabets check this site. 
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hindi.htm


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## omlick

bakshink said:


> Using "language tools" in google search on typing "find" you get the following result
> ढूँढना
> http://translate.google.com/translate_s?hl=en&clss=&q=find&tq=&sl=en&tl=hi
> 
> The word is spoken as Ddoonddna and so should it be written. For knowing more about the pronounciation of Hindi alphabets check this site.
> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hindi.htm


 
According to my Hindi teacher (from Lucknow), either way is good for pronunciation, although I have heard it usually pronounced the way you say it is.

The correct Hindi spelling still uses the ढ़ and I verified this with my Hindi  teacher as well as consulting the dictionary.   PLease see the Oxford Hindi English Dictionaryby McGregor for example.  Also see the learner's Hindi English Eictionary by Dr. Hardev Bahri, M.A, M.O.L, Ph.D, D.Litt, Shastri

*Off topic snipped.
Panjabigator
(Moderator)
*


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## bakshink

Dear Omlick

In Hindi we write what we speak. 
Have you heard these songs-
Doondo doondo re sajna, doondo re sajna more kaan ka bala- Film Ganga Jamuna
Dil doondta hai phir wohi, fursat ke raat din- Film Mausam
Doondta hoon tujhe har rah mein, har mehfil mein.. Mere Mehboob na ja- Film Mere Mehboob.
If not, then listen and decide how should it be written. May be it's even spoken as DoonRRta but I haven't heard it being spoken so.


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## panjabigator

Curious, how do Urdu phones pronounce this word?  Is there ambiguity here as well?


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## omlick

bakshink said:


> Dear Omlick
> 
> In Hindi we write what we speak.
> Have you heard these songs-
> Doondo doondo re sajna, doondo re sajna more kaan ka bala- Film Ganga Jamuna
> Dil doondta hai phir wohi, fursat ke raat din- Film Mausam
> Doondta hoon tujhe har rah mein, har mehfil mein.. Mere Mehboob na ja- Film Mere Mehboob.
> If not, then listen and decide how should it be written. May be it's even spoken as DoonRRta but I haven't heard it being spoken so.


 

I don't tend to deviate from standard spellings, so I wil stick to the way it is given by the Hindi scholars.


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## tonyspeed

ढूँढना  and ढ़ूँढ़ना both mean the same thing (to search for), but they are pronounced two different ways supposedly. The only problem is I've never actually heard anyone pronounce it ढ़ूँढ़ना. Is this pronunciation still in use?


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## panjabigator

As you can see from the above responses, I too have little encountered ढ़ूँढ़ना (Urdu: ڈھونڑھنا) in speech.  I suspect that it is a valid pronunciation, but you can just as well pronounce it as ढूँढना (Urdu: ڈھونڈھنا). 

I'm curious to know if these are both listed in the dictionary, and if so, is one listed as a "dialect" or "variant?"  What is spelling is preferred in Urdu?


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## tonyspeed

panjabigator said:


> As you can see from the above responses, I too have little encountered ढ़ूँढ़ना (Urdu: ڈھونڑھنا) in speech.  I suspect that it is a valid pronunciation, but you can just as well pronounce it as ढूँढना (Urdu: ڈھونڈھنا).
> 
> I'm curious to know if these are both listed in the dictionary, and if so, is one listed as a "dialect" or "variant?"  What is spelling is preferred in Urdu?



In Mcgreggor, it lists under ढूँढना pron. var. = ढ़ूँढ़ना .
Under the description for pronunciation variants it says these vary from common to those rarely pronounced by educated speakers. 

An interesting thing to note also is ढ़ूँढ़ is a searching (feminine), whereas ढूँढ is listed as a dilapidated house, a word used in western parts (W.).

Maybe this is why ढ़ूँढ़ना seems to be preferred in writing...


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## tonyspeed

john t platt's dictionary of classical urdu/hindi only contains ढूँढना
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/contextualize.pl?p.4.platts.1326190.1326193

the same situation is found in the New Hindustani English dictionary from 1879.


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## BP.

panjabigator said:


> As you can see from the above responses, I too have little encountered ढ़ूँढ़ना (Urdu: ڈھونڑھنا) in speech.  I suspect that it is a valid pronunciation, but you can just as well pronounce it as ढूँढना (Urdu: ڈھونڈھنا).
> 
> I'm curious to know if these are both listed in the dictionary, and if so, is one listed as a "dialect" or "variant?"  What is spelling is preferred in Urdu?


We say and write it with a D-ڈ, not an R-ڑ. At least I've never heard the R version.


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## panjabigator

Thanks for doing this dictionary work.  I feel like certain diacritics (the dot below, the chandrabindhu) are applied haphazardly at best.  Lots of signage I saw would just leave these marks off, and unlike Urdu, these diacritics are mandatory.  When I voiced my confusion to native speakers, some dismissed them as incorrect and/or argued that the sign was indeed correct Hindi.  

I've never encountered either ढ़ूँढ़ (ڈھونڑھ)or ढ़ूँढ (ڈھونڈھ)as nouns before (not to my recollection at least; maybe in Inshallah Khans रानी केतकी की कहानी), so I'm interested in hearing more about their usages.

(My betê noire is seeing a feminine plural noun written with a long "i" instead of a short one.  Many discussions about this resulted in my seeming excessively prescriptivist!).

Edit: Thanks for the Urdu contribution BP.

Edit 2: Is it just me, or is ढ़ूँढ़ना (ڈھونڑھنا) difficult to articulate!


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## BP.

panjabigator said:


> ...
> Edit: Thanks for the Urdu contribution BP.
> Edit 2: Is it just me, or is ढ़ूँढ़ना (ڈھونڑھنا) difficult to articulate!


It is at least to my tongue. Even ڈھونڈھنا is a heavy word, that's probably why I and many others use _talaash karnaa_ instead.


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## tonyspeed

panjabigator said:


> Edit 2: Is it just me, or is ढ़ूँढ़ना (ڈھونڑھنا) difficult to articulate!



yes it is. the nasal vowel doesn't help either. i'm beginning to wonder if this is a product of sanskritization/arbitrary change made by those hindi scholars, just like the invention of the word वे...


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## panjabigator

It would be interesting to see how other languages within the "Hindi belt" spell this word.  Is this a pronunciation indigenous to Khari Boli regions?


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## Faylasoof

Urdu proper always uses ڈھونڈھنا and never ڈھونڑھنا - and certainly never a nasalised form, ever! 
The only word that comes to mind at the moment that shows a similar difference between different northern Indian dialects is رانا _raanaa_ vs. رانڑاں_ raa.nRaa.n _, meaning a راجہ _raajah_. In Urdu it is always رانا _raanaa_.


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## panjabigator

Faylasoof said:


> Urdu proper always uses ڈھونڈھنا and never ڈھونڑھنا - and certainly never a nasalised form, ever!
> The only word that comes to mind at the moment that shows a similar difference between different northern Indian dialects is رانا _raanaa_ vs. رانڑاں_ raa.nRaa.n _, meaning a راجہ _raajah_. In Urdu it is always رانا _raanaa_.



How could you nasalize ڈھونڈھنا anymore than it already is?


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> How could you nasalize ڈھونڈھنا anymore than it already is?


 
I guess it is matter of degree - at least to my ears!


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