# Use of locative: we know who you have in your house



## Wattlebird

I've been wanting to write a short, menacing letter from a Latin-speaking character in a story of mine, but I'm not very sure about the use of the locative case here.

It's meant to say, "We know who you have in your house. Hand her over."

I've got something along the lines of, "scimus quam domi haberetis. eam tradite." Would that work? It feels weird not having the preposition in there...


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## Fred_C

Hi,
Your locative is correct, but your tense in the subjunctive is wrong.
It should be : "Scimus quam domi _habeatis_, eam tradite".
"habeatis" is the present, and "haberetis" is the imperfect.


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## Starfrown

Shouldn't it be _quem_ instead of _quam_?  The interrogative _quem_ is used for both genders.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Starfrown said:


> Shouldn't it be _quem_ instead of _quam_? The interrogative _quem_ is used for both genders.


 
I suppose Wattlebird chose_ quam_ because of " Hand _her_ over".


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## brian

I can't decide if _quis, quid_ should be used or _qui, quae, quod_.

For the first case, Perseus has examples like: _rogitat *quis* vir esset_.

For the second case, Perseus has examples like: _rogitat *qui *vir sit_, _scire *qui *sit rei publicae status_.

So I almost wonder whether you could use either _quis_ *or* _quae_ (for a feminine person) because honestly I cannot tell which is better in this case.


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## Starfrown

Let's consider the question:

_Quem domi habetis?_
"Whom do you have in your house?"

Now make it indirect, changing the indicative to subjunctive:

_Scimus quem domi habeatis._
"We know whom you have in your house."

Now consider this very similar question with an interrogative adjective instead of an interrogative pronoun:

_Quam puellam domi habetis?_
"What girl do you have in your house?"

Make it indirect:

_Scimus quam puellam domi habeatis._
"We know what girl you have in your house."

When using an interrogative adjective in indirect questions, you will almost always also have a noun for it to modify.  Sometimes, the interrogative adjective is used as a substantive in indirect questions; in those cases, it asks about nature or character.

At least, that's how I understand this.

In any case, I would say that _quem_ is the safest choice for the OP's sentence, as that makes it a straightforward indirect question.


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## Fred_C

Starfrown said:


> Shouldn't it be _quem_ instead of _quam_? The interrogative _quem_ is used for both genders.


 
Hi,
Where did you learn that, I have never heard of this.
The interrogative pronoun is quis, quae, quid.
In many cases, you do not know the gender of the person you are asking about, therefore you use "quis", but if you know it for some reason, you must use "quae", I think.
Example : If you hear a female speaking behind the door, then knocking, what you ask is : "Quae adest?"


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## Starfrown

Fred_C said:


> Hi,
> Where did you learn that, I have never heard of this.
> The interrogative pronoun is quis, quae, quid.
> In many cases, you do not know the gender of the person you are asking about, therefore you use "quis", but if you know it for some reason, you must use "quae", I think.
> Example : If you hear a female speaking behind the door, then knocking, what you ask is : "Quae adest?"


 
link1
link2 

The author in link 2 above notes that "the distinction between the substantive and adjective forms is not always maintained...although the proper substantive form is _quis_ for both Masculine and Feminine."


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## J.F. de TROYES

Grammars seem to disagree on this point. I have one where I read that the declension of the interrogative pronoun is exactly the same as the relative _qui_, except for the forms _quis_ and _quid._


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## Starfrown

J.F. de TROYES said:


> Grammars seem to disagree on this point. I have one where I read that the declension of the interrogative pronoun is exactly the same as the relative _qui_, except for the forms _quis_ and _quid._


The way the authors have stated it in your book is somewhat misleading in my opinion. After all, _quis_ is often used for both the masculine and feminine gender--that is an undeniable fact.

Still, I don't know whether I would say that the grammars disagree. I think they differ in the importance they place on teaching the use of the interrogative adjective as an interrogative pronoun.

In any case, it seems clear that either _quem_ or _quam_ could be used in the OP's sentence and would be consistent with classical practice.


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## Fred_C

Starfrown said:


> The way the authors have stated it in your book is somewhat misleading in my opinion. After all, _quis_ is often used for both the masculine and feminine gender--that is an undeniable fact.
> 
> Still, I don't know whether I would say that the grammars disagree. I think they differ in the importance they place on teaching the use of the interrogative adjective as an interrogative pronoun.
> 
> In any case, it seems clear that either _quem_ or _quam_ could be used in the OP's sentence and would be consistent with classical practice.


 

I have been doing some research.
This grammar rule seems to appear only in grammars that are written in English.
My guess is that there are local varieties of latin, qccording to the country where it is taught.
(This may seem shocking, but it would not be the first occurence of such discrepancies.)

I could not find a reference to it in a grammar written in French.
I am still searching in French and other languages.


I am also looking for a quote saying something like "quae est illa" (who is she), probably by StJerome. (Hieronimus)


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## dipax

Fred C, *I*'m from *I*taly and *I* assure you that we respect very strictly the difference between the interrogative pronoun quis, quid? and the int. adjective qui, quae, quod? !!

*S*o, to answer the question of the topic, *I* would definitely say "quem habeatis"!


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## Fred_C

dipax said:


> Fred C, i'm from italy and i assure you that we respect very strictly the difference between the interrogative pronoun quis, quid? and the int. adjective qui, quae, quod? !!
> 
> so, to answer the question of the topic, i would definitely say "quem habeatis"!


 
I am not saying that Latin grammars printed in French do not make a difference between the interrogative pronoun and the interrogative adjective, 
I am saying that these grammars say that the interrogative adjective is "qui, quae, quod", and the interrogative pronoun is "quis, quae, quid", not "quis, quis, quid".

I have just checked, and found a Latin grammar written in Italian saying that the interrogative pronoun is "quis, quis, quid", as the latin grammars printed in English do.

The grammars printed in French say clearly that the interrogative pronoun is "quis, quae, quid",  but I found one that translated "quis, quae, quid" as "qui, quelle, que", Making me think of the sentence "quelle est la température aujourd'hui ?", where the word "quelle", normally an adjective is used as a pronoun.

That would second Starfrown's opinion in the contribution nb 10 to this thread, and make my quote "quae est illa" by Hieronimus somewhat irrelevant.


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## Wattlebird

Thanks for clearing it all up. I forgot all about the tense of my verb, and the differences between the declensions of the interrogative pronoun vs the interrogative adjective there. So my villain's letter now reads, "Scimus quem domi habeatis. Eam tradite." Thanks so much, everyone!


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