# Marriageable age



## gotitadeleche

_A 15-year-old girl can enter into a common-law marriage in Colorado, and younger girls and boys possibly can, too, a state appeals court ruled Thursday._

I just read this in the news. They base the judgement on the fact that Colorado recognizes English common law. 

What do you all think? Should 15-year-olds be allowed to marry? What about younger?


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## Alundra

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> _A 15-year-old girl can enter into a common-law marriage in Colorado, and younger girls and boys possibly can, too, a state appeals court ruled Thursday._
> 
> I just read this in the news. They base the judgement on the fact that Colorado recognizes English common law.
> 
> What do you all think? Should 15-year-olds be allowed to marry? What about younger?


 
I think it is too early.
In Spain the average to marry is around the thirty, and something else is unusual. 


In my opinion, a girl with 15 (in Spain, at least), hasn't yet enough responsibility to live independent. I think the suitable would be something in between...
Alundra.


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## Etcetera

In Russia, 18 is the age at which a girl and a boy can get married. However, in some cases, they may marry earlier, at the age of 16 or so (the girl's pregnancy is considered a strong enough reason to allow the pair to marry). 
I think it should depend wholly on the actual case, and general suggestions and recommendations should be avoided. Besides, everyone must decide for themselves. I myself wouldn't like to get married in the next 10 years, at least.


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## gotitadeleche

Etcetera said:
			
		

> In Russia, 18 is the age at which a girl and a boy can get married. However, in some cases, they may marry earlier, at the age of 16 or so (the girl's pregnancy is considered a strong enough reason to allow the pair to marry).
> I think it should depend wholly on the actual case, and general suggestions and recommendations should be avoided. Besides, everyone must decide for themselves. I myself wouldn't like to get married in the next 10 years, at least.



Are you saying that there should be no limits at all to how young a person can be to marry?


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## Little_Me

Of course it's too early! 15-year-old girl is definitely too young for marriage! What's the use in getting married if you're still dependable on your parents? I can't imagine a situation when a girl in this age gets married, moves out and starts her new life (while just beginning a high school!)... 
But recently there was a lot of fuss about similar things because of the minority of Romany people (gipsies) in Poland. They live in groups and have their own habits and laws, sometimes even contrary to Polish constitution- it's very common for them to arrange marriages for teenagers and the averege bride is about 14, 15 years old (and soon, of course, she gets pregnant)! Normally it's not allowed in Poland to get married and have sex in such age, so this problem seems to be really serious... 
I'm sure that 15 is not the age for marriage. But the strange tendendency is that nowadays women get married about 28-30, but there is a real increase in pregnancy among teenagers. Hmm, very strange order...


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## lorin*elise

Personally, I think that 15 is way too young to be married. I myself am only 18, and I know I won't be rushing into such a long-term situation for quite some time! 

I think that everyone at a young age has fantasies about marrying their current sweetheart, but once that relationship has ended, they look back on it and think, "Wow, and I wanted to marry him/her?!" 

Honestly...15 years old? My little sister is almost 13...she's just recently gotten over the whole boys-have-cooties phase!


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## Etcetera

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> Are you saying that there should be no limits at all to how young a person can be to marry?


Not by any means! I think a girl may be alllowed to marry at 15 or 16, but only in some extraordinary case (I don't know how to express this idea in English correctly. If someone would be so kind as to correct me... ) Otherwise, there should be limits, of course. I even think that at 18, people are stil too young to get married. I am sure that they should first receive education and find a good job, and then think about marriage. 
It's only my personal opinion, of course.


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## emma42

Hi Gotitadeleche.  Are you saying that you think British law allows girls to marry/have sex at 15?  It does not.  The age of consent for both sexes (and for gays) is 16 and has been for a long time.

Age of consent is 18, unless parents allow a marriage at 16.

This is such a difficult question.  My gut feeling is, of course, 15 is too young for marriage, but then, so is 17, 18, 21...It does depend on the people involved.  I would be very wary of criticising Romany culture, who knows what goes on?  I would need to know a lot more about that culture before I ventured an opinion on it.


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## Chaska Ñawi

It's only very recently (the last century) that adolescence has been so prolonged.  Before that, by the time that you were seventeen you were an adult and were expected to marry.  In the developing world, where an extended childhood is somewhat of a luxury, this is still often the case.

Maturity seems to be pushed back farther and farther each decade.  While I personally know of no teenagers who have the maturity to marry in the here and now, it doesn't mean that they don't in other societies.

In this cult of eternal youth, I'm suddenly feeling old.  Off to get a tummy tuck, liposuction, a nose job and a face lift!


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## moirag

People used to die younger, too, so if you wanted to fit it all in, you used to have to cram it in fast. Maybe, once we all get our bodies deep-frozen and resuscitated it´ll be considered rash to marry in your first lifetime...


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## danielfranco

Well, what do you guys think the debutante balls, quinceañeras and sweet sixteen parties were for, if not to announce to society that girls fifteen-ish were already _*nubile*_?
Nowdays, of course, we think a person should be a completely developed person before even considering marriage, and I would be horror-struck if my daughter (about 10 already) came up to me within the next few years and told me she was getting married!
Heck, I'm 37 and I'm not sure I'm old enough to be married already, you know?

But anyway, around these here parts, the legal age of consent is 17 and younger brides and grooms need parental authorization, and (I'm not 100% on this) I think people younger than 14 are forbidden to enter any social contract, including marriage.


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## shaloo

Hmmmmmmmm......and I was so ignorant to think that child marriages took place(still taking place in some regions) only in India !#&* 

But frankly speaking, I don't support the judgement. 
What does a little girl in her teens know about real life and the struggle-for-existence situation in this world?

Well,in India,the formal age for a girl to get married is 18 and for a boy,21.
And I believe this law is strictly to be followed by one and all.



​


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## emma42

Indeed, Shaloo, but what does a 19/20-year old know?  No offence to you, of course!


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## Brioche

In Australia the Marriage Act is a federal law.
The age for marriage in Australia is 18.

The age of consent is 16 or 17, depending on which state you live in.

In my very humble opionion, no-one should marry unless they have completed their training/education, and they are in a position to support themselves [and any children they may have] financially.  

In most developed countries that would preclude nearly all persons under about 21, and quite a few under 25.


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## shaloo

Emma42, what you said is right. 

But in India, it is always of the opinion that the husband should take care of the financial needs of the family and so he must have completed atleast his formal education (i.e, graduation) to afford basic amenities. 

And, of course, he will have finished that by 21 years of age.
So, even if he marries a girl who has studied high school(12th standard),
she could continue studying and take care of the house while he works.

And moreover, parents, here, consider it as their primary responsibility to assist their newly married children(financially and emotionally) till they settle down well in their lives.
So, I don't think this will pose a problem.​


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## maxiogee

What age do people think Romeo & Juliet were?
How far back up your family tree would you have to go to find someone who
(a) married into an arranged marriage?
(b) married at a very (to our view) young age?
(c) was a grandparent in their early 30s?

As Chaska Ñawi mentioned already, prolonged childhood - which is what "adolescence" really is - is a new concept. Not too long ago when you stopped being a child you immediately became an adult.


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## shaloo

Hello Mr.Maxiogee,

So are you trying to tell that the judgement was right?

I ask this because, my grandmother(she's 55) tells me that during her younger days, people used to get married in their early teens and by the time they're 20 something they have 4 or so kids. 

And do you think its too late for a girl to get married if she's crossed 20?


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## Etcetera

Maxiogee, we all remember that Romeo was 16, and Juliet was 14 - and that Juliet's mother was even younger when she got married.
But it was so long ago! The world has changed. 

I wonder if I am the only one who's read Moira's remark:


> People used to die younger, too, so if you wanted to fit it all in, you used to have to cram it in fast.


That's it. How long did people live in Romao and Juliet's time? Juliet's mother was *26* when the story took place, and, as we can understand somehow, she was considered a young woman no longer!


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## maxiogee

shaloo said:
			
		

> a) So are you trying to tell that the judgement was right?
> b) I ask this because, my grandmother(she's 55) tells me that during her younger days, people used to get married in their early teens and by the time they're 20 something they have 4 or so kids.
> c) And do you think its too late for a girl to get married if she's crossed 20?



Hello shaloo, and welcome to the forums.

a) No. I merely commented on how times and attitudes change.
In the olden days if a woman married at 15, she would be most unlikely to have lived very far from her mother, or her mother-in-law, excellent sources of childrearing advice.
She would have been brought up in the knowledge that she would likely be married by that time and her upbringing would have been focussed on this. Similarly a man marrying at that age would have known it was likely to be going to happen. Now it is too young - but only because the supports aren't there to allow it to happen, and the people are not reared with such an early marriage age in mind.
b) In days when infant mortality was high, and when adults tended to die younger than they do now, it made sense to have your family quickly and early. There is less need to do so now.
c) No. I think it is too young nowadays, looking at the immaturity of much of today's 20-year-olds - male and female. I see many couples in their late teens struggling with the problems brought on by two or more children, not enough income, high mortgages, and an unwillingness (or inability) to let go the singles lifestyle they led until recently.


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## lforestier

emma42 said:
			
		

> Hi Gotitadeleche. Are you saying that you think British law allows girls to marry/have sex at 15? It does not. The age of consent for both sexes (and for gays) is 16 and has been for a long time.
> 
> Age of consent is 18, unless parents allow a marriage at 16.
> 
> This is such a difficult question. My gut feeling is, of course, 15 is too young for marriage, but then, so is 17, 18, 21...It does depend on the people involved. I would be very wary of criticising Romany culture, who knows what goes on? I would need to know a lot more about that culture before I ventured an opinion on it.


What he was saying is that certain states of the United States recognizes a set of law that was in place before the system of coded rules was officially accepted in the US. It is called English Common Law to differentiate it from Napoleonic Code, whic was the basis for the code of law in the US.


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## robbie_SWE

15 is absolutely too young!!! In Sweden the law allows marriage only after the age of 18. I personally consider 18 to be to young too, but it's up to them to decide if they want to get married. 

BUT I strictly feel that these couples should manage on their own, if they decide to get married at such a young age. It's their own responsibility if they get pregnant and the state should not be held reliable for such a thing! 

/robbie


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## shaloo

Thank you so much Mr.Maxiogee,
I hope to actively participate in these cultural discussions.

Maxiogee wrote:
_No. I merely commented on how times and attitudes change._
_In the olden days if a woman married at 15, she would be most unlikely to have lived very far from her mother, or her mother-in-law, excellent sources of childrearing advice._
_She would have been brought up in the knowledge that she would likely be married by that time and her upbringing would have been focussed on this. Similarly a man marrying at that age would have known it was likely to be going to happen. Now it is too young - but only because the supports aren't there to allow it to happen, and the people are not reared with such an early marriage age in mind._

Yup! And this is the reason why the average age of marriage for an indian girl is lesser when compared to her western counterparts. 
More often than not, our parents try to marry us off by 22 or 23 at the maximum. We know that its anyway gonna happen by that time and so we will be prepared for that.

Thanks again. I learn so much from you each time I post.  
​


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## coconutpalm

The legal age for marriage is 20 for girls and 22 for boys in China. However, it's a common fact that many people get married before these ages, most of which don't receive a higher education. In these cases, most of them live in their parents' and if the young couple have a child, the grandparents take care of the baby more than the parents do(Note, willingly. I think it's another cultural difference between the east and the west).

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to get married at too young an age, because these young couple are not totally financially, and in many cases, psychologically independent from their own parents. Of course, most of their parents never mind it----it's great to be able to help their children and it's great comfort to have someone to take care of in an old thus usually lonely age.

But I will never do that. I think it's utterly irresponsible for a son/daughter to depend on their aging parents, let alone not to ...... (is there a suitable word for this oriental idea: to repay your parents when they are old?). And it does little good for a child not to bring up by his/her own parents when he/she has!


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## Brioche

gotitadeleche said:
			
		

> _A 15-year-old girl can enter into a common-law marriage in Colorado, and younger girls and boys possibly can, too, a state appeals court ruled Thursday._
> 
> I just read this in the news. They base the judgement on the fact that Colorado recognizes English common law.
> 
> What do you all think? Should 15-year-olds be allowed to marry? What about younger?


 
Apparently there are 16 states in the US which still recognise Common Law marriage.
http://www.unmarried.org/common.html

The old Common Law ages for consent and thus marriage were 14 for a male, and 12 for a female.
Common Law marriage was abolished in England and Wales by the Marriage Act of 1753. That Act stipulated that only marriage performed by an Anglican clergyman in an Anglican Church was valid, and that parental permission was required for those under 21. There were exceptions for Jews and Quakers. There have been other changes in the law since then.
Scottish law was different, which is why under-age English couples used to go to Greta Green - first village in Scotand - to get married.

Marriage in Australia is constitutionally the business of the federal government, and thus Statute Law has abolished the concept in Australia.

However, most states will treat a couple (over the age of consent) who have been living together for 5 years as "putative" spouses for such things as inheritance.


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## Etcetera

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> In these cases, most of them live in their parents' and if the young couple have a child, the grandparents take care of the baby more than the parents do(Note, willingly. I think it's another cultural difference between the east and the west).
> 
> Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to get married at too young an age, because these young couple are not totally financially, and in many cases, psychologically independent from their own parents. Of course, most of their parents never mind it----it's great to be able to help their children and it's great comfort to have someone to take care of in an old thus usually lonely age.


Oh my, that's a common problem in Russia! For some reason, many conflicts arise when two young people, after getting married, come and live with the parents of one of them. And if the young couple has a child... 
I don't know much on the subject, but I have several friends who got married recently, and all of them are trying their best to live on their own, separately from parents.


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## shaloo

I wrote::
_And moreover, parents, here, consider it as their primary responsibility to assist their newly married children(financially and emotionally) till they settle down well in their lives_.

So, as I had earlier mentioned in one of my posts, this is the case in india too.
Here, parents consider it as their responsibility to correct if something goes wrong in a marriage arranged by them. Of course, its a different case if that was a love marriage.


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## linguist786

I think it depends on the person (and the situation) - if they want to get married at 15, who's to stop them?
And who are we to judge?


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## Etcetera

Well... In Russia, parents arrange a marriage for their children very, very seldom nowadays. It's the young people in question who decide whether or not they want to marry each other. Parents may give their advice, though. 
That's probably why young couples in Russia prefer to live separately.


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## fenixpollo

Great question, gotita!  

Another criterion for marriage/children that is often cited, apart from Brioche's economic and social independence criteria above, is mental maturity.  Many people say that a 15-year-old lacks the maturity to make rational decisions regarding pregnancy and marriage.  

To an extent, this is true, but science has shown that the brain does not finish growing until age 24 (approximately).  If mental maturity were truly a criterion, then the age of marriage would be 24 years old.  

I agree with that.  In modern, post-Romeo-and-Juliet society with low infant mortality and increased life span, I think there would be less societal stress if people married later.  Many of the social ills we have are due to the fact that people make poor choices.  Individuals would be happier and the costs to society of divorce and unwanted pregnancy would be lower.


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## Etcetera

linguist786 said:
			
		

> I think it depends on the person (and the situation) - if they want to get married at 15, who's to stop them?
> And who are we to judge?


But parents may not agree with that!
After all, at 15 most people aren't so clever, independent and self-confident as they themselves tend to think! Of course, there are exceptions. But still...


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## Etcetera

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> I agree with that. In modern, post-Romeo-and-Juliet society with low infant mortality and increased life span, I think there would be less societal stress if people married later.


However strongly I agree with what have you said, Fenix, still there's one more point to be taken into consideration. 
As we know, when a woman decides to give birth to a child in her mid-thirties, the risk of various complications is much higher than if she were ten years younger. So, the tricky thing is to find the middle way...


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## ireney

Ah! The common Law 'thingy'! I must have quizzed my American friend who came over for holidays for something like an hour at least (the poor soul!) before I could start to sort of grasp how it works!

Anyway, we don't have common law around so the legal age for marrying is 18 (when a person is -supposedly- through adolescence and into adulthood and maturity and can -oh the horror of it!- actually vote etc etc)..

If a person or persons under this age want to marry it can be done by a somewhat complicated procedure I am not familiar with, if both parents consent to the marriage.


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## linguist786

Etcetera said:
			
		

> But parents may not agree with that!
> After all, at 15 most people aren't so clever, independent and self-confident as they themselves tend to think! Of course, there are exceptions. But still...


Oh no - what I meant was, if the parents _agree_, then it should be allowed.
Of course parents matter! I would not marry a girl without my parents blessing


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## Etcetera

If so, Linguist, then I apologise.
My parents' opinion is of equal importance for me. I don't want to spoil our relationships by my marriage.


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## linguist786

Etcetera said:
			
		

> If so, Linguist, then I apologise.
> My parents' opinion is of equal importance for me. I don't want to spoil our relationships by my marriage.


héhé.. you sound like me.


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## maxiogee

Etcetera said:
			
		

> But parents may not agree with that!
> After all, at 15 most people aren't so clever, independent and self-confident as they themselves tend to think! Of course, there are exceptions. But still...



The old (pre-Charles Dickens' anti-child-labour campaigns) attitude to childhood would have ensured that 15-year-olds were more mature. A few years spent up a chimney, down the mines, or in a sweatshop would have seen to that.
The modern child has no reason to begin to change their mental attitudes. Childhood is becoming more and more protracted, and protected. We shield our children, to a great extent, from the realities of life. This often means that many of them are incapable, when they leave home for college or for their first employment, of independent living.

So, to answer your point, they may not be as clever as they think — but they are capable of being cleverer - when pushed.


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## Etcetera

Ah, right you are. 
But I can understand the parents. Had I had children, I'd do my best to 'shield' them from all the difficulties of life. It may seem an unreasonable attitude.



> So, to answer your point, they may not be as clever as they think — but they are capable of being cleverer - when pushed.


That's it. I completely agree.


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## Seana

My two cents.

May I tell you about real case? So here you are. 

Last year a little 13 years old Gipsy girl with an appendix case was admitted to the hospital where my friend works a pediatrician. Next day somebody from her family (a man) phoned to learn about her condition. 

My friend answered "the child feels very well'. 
What!!!! does it mean my wife is pregnant?

It was her husband. In Poland Gipsy customs are against the Polish constitution rules  and should be punished.

Sorry you might not agree with me but even discussion about marriage 13-15 old years little mummy and daddy immature child makes me sick.

Greetings Seana


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## angel29

Alundra said:
			
		

> I think it is too early.
> In Spain the average to marry is around the thirty, and something else is unusual.
> 
> 
> In my opinion, a girl with 15 (in Spain, at least), hasn't yet enough responsibility to live independent. .


I was quite shocked to discover that the age of consent (for sexual intercourse) in most Latin American countries is 14 and that in Spain it is 12  (at least according to Wikipedia).
Do you think that girls of that age have enough responsibility to make such a decision??



			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> Are you saying that you think British law allows girls to marry/have sex at 15? It does not. The age of consent for both sexes (and for gays) is 16 and has been for a long time.
> 
> Age of consent is 18, unless parents allow a marriage at 16.


I could be wrong, but I think you can still get married at 15 in Scotland.
That's why young couples used to elope to Gretna Green (just over the border) to get married there.


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## Etcetera

angel29 said:
			
		

> Do you think that girls of that age have enough responsibility to make such a decision??


No, no, no! 
We've agreed that Romeo and Juliet's time had passed long ago!


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## Alundra

angel29 said:
			
		

> Do you think that girls of that age have enough responsibility to make such a decision??


 
At 12 y.o.? No, I don't. 

At any rate, I think in Spain there are few marriages with this age (12). (Few or none) 

Alundra.


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## Etcetera

We all know how 'reliable' Wikipedia can be... It might be someone's joke. Or a misprint.


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## angel29

I have investigated it a bit more and Wikipedia was wrong...but just by one year.
The age of constent for sexual intercourse in Spain is actually *13* (still very young, don't you think?)
See here: avert.org/aofconsent.htm



			
				angel29 said:
			
		

> I could be wrong, but I think you can still get married at 15 in Scotland


I was wrong about this. It is 16 in Scotland too.


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## Etcetera

Thank you for this link, Angel! It's very interesting.


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## Alundra

angel29 said:
			
		

> I have investigated it a bit more and Wikipedia was wrong...but just by one year.
> The age of constent for sexual intercourse in Spain is actually *13* (still very young, don't you think?)


 
I didn't know about it. 13 years....  

Well, it's very young to me, too.   But, I think one thing is that the law permits (13) and other thing is the real age of the Spanish marriages. (the average I think is 30 at this moment)... I don't know nobody to get married at 13 (where I live, at least)... and when a child is pregnant at this age (it's strange)... she hasn't to get married.. she lives with her parents the most of the times....


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## coconutpalm

Consent for sexual intercourse? People in China don't ask for  consent to have sexual intercourse with somebody else. 

But it triggers an interesting (at least for me) question: in the western world, the first time people have sexual intercourse is generally much ealier than people in the east. Surely there is much higher risk to be pregnant at an much ealier age. If they don't want to abort the baby, they have to be married or be a single parent. 
That's the thing that confuses me most when reading the posts: many of you seem to think it is totally agreeable to have sex in a early age despite the pregnancy risks and thus the following responsibility , but it's not good to get married in an early age despite the fact that they may avoid pregnancy by various means. Why?


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## maxiogee

coconutpalm said:
			
		

> Consent for sexual intercourse? People in China don't ask for  consent to have sexual intercourse with somebody else.



What? "Consent" in this context means that the two people each give their consent to the act. Otherwise it is rape.
Most countries have a lower-age limit, below which it is deemed that one of the parties would be so unaware of the possible consequences as to be unable to give meaningful consent to the act. 
I sincerely hope you have misunderstood the use of the word.


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## coconutpalm

maxiogee said:
			
		

> What? "Consent" in this context means that the two people each give their consent to the act. Otherwise it is rape.
> Most countries have a lower-age limit, below which it is deemed that one of the parties would be so unaware of the possible consequences as to be unable to give meaningful consent to the act.
> I sincerely hope you have misunderstood the use of the word.


 
I DID misunderstood it! (crying)
Thank you, Maxiogee. I thought the consent is granted by the parents.


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