# You can speak and even get to dream in a foreign language. But can you "feel" it?



## heidita

I wonder what your opinion is concerning this idea.
Yesterday I was just joking a round with my friend and then called him a moron, which for me is just like saying, sugar. So I was surprised to see that he got offended at what I thought to be a normal and not too insulting word.

I have had the experience that even living in the foreign country you will never get the "feeling" of the language as natives do. I lived in England and _know_ all the meanings of the words I say but I cannot_* feel*_ the pain the word might cause the other person. Neither can you* feel* the emotion which natives get when saying a nice kind of loving word.

Llevo viviendo en Epsaña desde hace más de 30 añitos pero podría llamar a todo el mundo hijo de p*** todo el día sin que para mi interior sería nada grave ya que el *sentir *de la palabra no se puede aprender por muchos años que se lleve.

Una palabra que me es especilamente dificil decir o incluso escribir en mi idioma es el equivalente de  follar. Que como veis, ni lo intento.

So, what do you think? Is it impossible to "feel" the language as a foreigner? I'm talking of course about people who came to the country as adults (I came to Spain at the age of 19). It is completely different if you have been raised in the country, or isn't it?


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## Vespasian

I think you need much time to really feel the language. That's why I'm too young to answer that question. But I do have another question. Did you call him "moron" or something in Spanish/German that translates to "moron"?


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## Bilma

I have been living in the United States for 2 years. I think I am pretty fluent in English. What you are saying is so true, my first language is Spanish and I do not feel the English words the same way I do in Spanish. Bad words, good words any of them!!


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## Sidd

Yeah, I agree, I can't feel but my mother tongue, what is more I can feel the words in english which don't have a translation into spanish and that I learned a while ago.


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## Kelly B

I agree, as far as "bad words" are concerned. If you haven't made your parents angry by using them, or been called them during your childhood, I don't think you'll ever have that same visceral (gut) reaction that a native speaker has about them. You'll know exactly what they mean, but you don't have those deep emotional associations.
That said, I can "feel" beautiful or poetic language pretty well, and that might be because I didn't learn to appreciate that until adolescence anyway.


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## Mariaguadalupe

I don't know if learning English as a very young child, makes me _feel_ it's nuances as if it were my own native language.  I hesitate about using offensive words in either English or Spanish.  However, I did learn French at an older age and I can't say I don't feel the language but its more a case of preferring what's more comfortable to me.  

I do remember however, that I did scold my children in English.  Somehow, it felt more comfortable to me to scold them in English than in Spanish. (My mom speak Spanish.)  (oops!)


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## Bilma

Mariaguadalupe said:
			
		

> I do remember however, that I did scold my children in English. Somehow, it felt more comfortable to me to scold them in English than in Spanish. (My mom speak Spanish.) (oops!)


 

I think that is because you do not really feel the words in English!


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## ireney

Well, if you reach the point of dreaming in one language -the way I see it- you can also 'feel' the language or else you are dreaming in your native one and just do a quick and unconscious translation.

The only way to really feel a language is to do a lot of 'research'. Read books (and I don't mean the really 'serious' ones, but contemporary literature of the run-of-the-mill kind), watch movies and, if possible, find a native speaker that speaks your language too and ply him/her with questions ("So, if I calll you a $@*#@! of a %)@*# is it the same as calling you a $@*@#@ of a #)@*#@ ?" when it comes to swearing)


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## french4beth

I was at a translator's/interpreter's gathering this weekend, and learned that if you call someone 'stupid' in Spanish, it is highly insulting (or even if you say "that was a stupid move").  Who knew?


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## TimeHP

It may depend upon the words you are using. In Italian  the English word_  bastard _is quite similar:  _bastardo._
So if I an English says this word I perfectly _feel_ what he means ...
Ciao


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## ireney

TimeHP sometimes similar words have a different 'quality' in different languages.

For instance French use the expression "Oh p***aine!" in a sort of every-day way, a bit like "blast!" or errr "Darn!" . The word Π***ΑΝΑ (P***ANA) in Greek is a rather serious insult.


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## fenixpollo

Kelly B said:
			
		

> I agree, as far as "bad words" are concerned. If you haven't made your parents angry by using them, or been called them during your childhood, I don't think you'll ever have that same visceral (gut) reaction that a native speaker has about them. You'll know exactly what they mean, but you don't have those deep emotional associations.
> That said, I can "feel" beautiful or poetic language pretty well, and that might be because I didn't learn to appreciate that until adolescence anyway.


 I think you can have those meaningful experiences with swear words as an adult, just like you have meaningful experiences with poetry as an adult.

My example:  I'm sitting in a bar with a group of male and female friends who are Spanish-speakers.  They are a tight-knit group who have been friends for a while and are very close.  We are waiting for the last of the group, who I'll call Beto.  Beto has secretly been dating one of the other members of the group, Elisa, and she is falling in love with him.  Beto walks into the bar with a fashion model on his arm, and Elisa's best friend says, "¡Hijo de su p*** madre!"  

Since then, that phrase has an emotion attached to it in my brain.... I _feel_ it.    So yes, it's possible to feel a language, even swear words, even as an adult.


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## Auryn

Interesting question. I can't swear in French at all, as I was never allowed to as a child and even as a teenager. I still find it difficult now and tend to use euphemisms instead. On the other hand, I have no problem swearing like a trooper in English. It's like English swearwords are "Monopoly swearwords" that don't matter


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## TimeHP

Yes, ireny. But I suspect that the word I wrote has just the same ...ehm... quality. 
Ciao


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## heidita

Auryn said:
			
		

> Interesting question. I can't swear in French at all, as I was never allowed to as a child and even as a teenager. I still find it difficult now and tend to use euphemisms instead. On the other hand, I have no problem swearing like a trooper in English. It's like English swearwords are "Monopoly swearwords" that don't matter


 
Auryn,  I have never had the pleasure to speak to you before...

But aren't they, just like Monopoly... nice expression!
I can swear in Spanish and in English and I do understand that I am insulting or saying "bad" words, but there isn't this _felling_ about doing something _bad_ or _wrong_ about them, is there?


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## Mariaguadalupe

Bilma said:
			
		

> I think that is because you do not really feel the words in English!


 
Actually Bilma, I think its quite the opposite.  I started speaking in English to my children when they were very young.  I feel _extremely_ comfortable in both languages.  There are certain topics that I approach in Spanish and yet there are others I prefer to approach in English.  Its just a matter of what _feels_ right at the moment.


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## Just_Wil

I think it takes time to get the "feeling" of a foreign language, 'cause there are expressions like "hijo de p***" that may be not so offensive in some countries while they are actually very offensive in some other places.


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## french4beth

I agree with the pimp...

There are some expressions in French (second language) that more accurately convey what I'm feeling, and I sometimes struggle to find their English equivalent (my native tongue).

But I have no problem swearing (under my breath, of course) using Quebecois slang, both because French is a second language, and also because the _'joual'_ slang is religious, not as pejoratively sexual (or scatalogical) as many swears are in American English.


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## danielfranco

Others have expressed it better already...
The emotional weight one assigns to certain words (and not necessarily only insults) depends on the subtext of your personal experience when a specific term is learned. In my case, I finally learned to speak English fluently when I was 17. So that many terms and concepts I've learned about adult life, I've learned them in English as well as in Spanish. The result is that, for example, when I think of paying my taxes at the end of the year, I curse the government in both languages with equal vehemence.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

What an interesting thread to find by accident! 

This is a topic that has always been on my mind, ever since I started learning foreign languages. To me, there are things that you tend to associate with a specific language, e.g. dreaming, cursing, writing (poetry or journaling), reading the news, whispering words at your significant other's ear... 

Personally, I hate swearing. But, I must confess that if I hit my toe against the desk (or step on something disgusting...), the most probable thing I'll blurt out would be in English... 



Kelly B said:


> I don't think you'll ever have that same visceral (gut) reaction that a native speaker has about them. You'll know exactly what they mean, but you don't have those deep emotional associations.


 
Well, I agree with you "in part", Kelly B. I know most curse words in English, I know exactly what they mean (perhaps better than some natives  ), but most of them just don't hurt that much as in Spanish, so til that point you're right. However, there are some exceptions, as fp describes so well...



fenixpollo said:


> I think you can have those meaningful experiences with swear words as an adult, just like you have meaningful experiences with poetry as an adult.
> My example: <Read the entire post here, it's fantastic!>
> So yes, it's possible to feel a language, even swear words, even as an adult.


 
Mike, I LOVE your example! I still remember my first _real-life_ experience with this one curse word, quite a while ago: somebody dropped a "_F*ck you!!!_"  right on my face, along with _the finger,_ and the angriest look I've ever seen in someone from the US... (Can you picture that sweet, little foreign girl, scared as h*ll of hearing such imprecation?) Since then, whenever I hear that word, I cringe. Maybe I could let out a "darn", or even "sh*t" every now and then but, me saying "f*ck" or any of its derivatives, I doubt it!


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Auryn said:


> Interesting question. I can't swear in French at all, as I was never allowed to as a child and even as a teenager. I still find it difficult now and tend to use euphemisms instead. On the other hand, I have no problem swearing like a trooper in English. It's like English swearwords are "Monopoly swearwords" that don't matter


 
Exactly my case: I can't swear in French since I don't know the words...

Nah, kidding!  What I mean is that I can't swear in my native language at all, I find it extremely rude. It's not even easy to me to hold a Forum Discussion about curse words in Spanish!  

But I keep on swearing in English (in my mind, at least. I don't think too many city drivers would get my point, otherwise )



Mariaguadalupe said:


> There are certain topics that I approach in Spanish and yet there are others I prefer to approach in English. Its just a matter of what _feels_ right at the moment.



Also, true. There are things I just *can't* say in Spanish, and others that I just *can't* say in English. Of course in French, I just *can't* say a single sentence without messing it up, too.. 

Ah, what a marvel our brain is...!


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## Reina140

I really like this thread also.  When I was in high school, I studied Spanish 1-4 and French 1 & 2.  I didn't really like French (actually, I think it was the teacher that I didn't like . . lol)  But in high school, they only teach you so much and it's very "By the Book" spanish.  Well, that was over 10 years ago and I had remembered many things, but more recently in the past year, I was interested in relearning the language.  I am not taking any courses, so I am studying all on my own.  I have spent many hours on WR here, and this forum has helped me vastly to teach myself.  And I'm sure like many of you here, you can read and write the language, but don't get many chances to speak the language, BUT I CAN SAY . . . that I have dreamt in Spanish (probably from spending so much time in this forum) but I was very excited the first time I dreamt in Spanish.  Last night, I was chatting with my friend on the phone while chatting with someone from Peru on the computer and when my friend asked me a question, I accidentally answered her in Spanish.  I think whether or not you FEEL a language, depends on your passion for it.


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## almostfreebird

I think it depends on what it is. I think I can feel it when I listen to James Joseph Brown singing.


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## la reine victoria

I can "feel" the words when I listen to Edith Piaf singing.  She was a genius.  "Les Amants d'un Jour" never fails to reduce me to tears.

LRV


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## Amityville

It is a truth generally acknowledged (thanks DearPrudence, for reminding me of that),that a language learned before the age of 12, and the earlier the better, becomes hardwired in. With French I slipped in by a whisker at age 11, but  was 18 before I visited France, and was ancient before I lived there. It's not just language though - it's everything that happens to you as a child that becomes wrapped up in the language of the moment
- the freckly fat girl who lived next door, the mud and weeds you swished about in your kiddy watering-can, your granny's cat perparing for its kittens under the sideboard, whatever it was. I am somewhere now and am most of the hours of the day speaking that place's language, sometimes I am in my element but sometimes I am kind of 
flying above, arms outstretched, not fully recognising the country below and never landing. It varies, day to day, and all of us must remember occasions when we have failed abysmally to communicate with a fellow-native, as well as occasions when we have broken through and achieved simultaneous communication outside our native language.
Listening to music or a formative swearing experience, or just talking, not as elegantly as we'd ideally like to, dreaming in the language, or successfully losing your temper in it.


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## Athaulf

Kelly B said:


> I agree, as far as "bad words" are concerned. If you haven't made your parents angry by using them, or been called them during your childhood, I don't think you'll ever have that same visceral (gut) reaction that a native speaker has about them. You'll know exactly what they mean, but you don't have those deep emotional associations.



There is also the fact that different cultures perceive swearing with very different levels of seriousness. The same swearword or swearphrase literally translated into a different language can end up sounding much more or much less harsh. Thus, when listening to swearing in a foreign language, it can be difficult to accurately estimate someone's intended level of offensiveness. 

English-speaking peoples are generally very sensitive to swearing, at least compared to us Slavs. If I took some phrases that we normally say to each other in Croatia as a normal part of a cordial conversation between male friends and translated those phrases into English, they would end up sounding as if I were trying to provoke a bar fight. In fact, when English speakers hear the translations of some of our common swearphrases, they are often shocked to find out that something like that exists at all. (And I don't even have to  reach for the worst ones for that effect. )


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