# se me olvido=se me perdieron=se me quito



## flyingcat2008

Hi, I have think this question for quite few time,since I have learn many word with “se”,I found some of them can not follow “le”, this is like a rule,but not quite sure.
For example
No1._ se me perdieron las llaves_
_No2. se le cayó la queso_
_No3. Se me olvidó el tomate_
_The above three share same structure, that is se+ CI+verb+CD, all mean”accidently”_
_but it seems we cannot say” se le quito la chaqueta”,_
_I simply consider the reason is “there`s no accidently, there’s no le+reflexsive verb”, am I right,I always want to find a rule, then it wont be so confused when I read spanish ~~_
_Beside,  _Al oír esto, el cuervo, que era muy vanidoso, quiso mostrar su bonita voz. Abrió el pico y se le cayó el queso.

Can i change into el queso cayo???,does it grammatically right?,my reason is caer is intransitive verb,like “En algunos países cambia el horario según estaciones”

i`ll be very apreciate with your helpJ


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## larry b.

Hello!

First of all, actually there're cases where you CAN use something like "se le quitó la chaqueta", meaning "his jacket was taken off".

"Para asegurarse que no portaba armas se le quitó la chaqueta"
"To ensure he wasn't carrying any weapons his jacket was taken off"

And about "el queso", you CAN say "el queso cayó", but it leaves the sentence without its original meaning... 

"Abrió el pico y se le cayó el queso" -> you're stating that the raven DROPPED the cheesse.
"Abrió el pico y el queso cayó" -> you're just saying the cheesse FELL...

It's a very subtle difference... in the 1st sentence you are giving direct responsability to the raven...

I hope that helps; if I'm not fully answering your question, please tell me so I can develop a little more 

Bye!


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## flyingcat2008

hi, larry, thank you very much, well , let me think a while~~,as for the "se le quito la chaqueta"
why it become passive translation?

according to *se me perdieron las llaves(i forgot these  keys)-------why not :*

*se le quitó la chaqueta(he take off the coat)*
they share the same structure:se+CI+verb+CD
gracias


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## davi09

you can use that structure where there is no accident involved.

Se les dio unas hojas para llenar.

Se le dijo que estuviera a la hora.

Se nos advirtio que no trajeramos nada.

Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado.

Se les examino la vista en el consultorio.


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## flyingcat2008

thank you,davi, but your example make me more confused ~~,what about"Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado."
i can understand " le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado.",but ,the above one, difil
~~


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## YoPlatero

> * se le quitó la chaqueta(he take off the coat)*





> they share the same structure:se+CI+verb+CD


 
in the sentence '_se le quito la chaqueta' the subject is 'él' and is the person who performs the action to himself. if you say that , you are saying,more or less:_
_él a sí mismo(se) a otro(le) quito la chaqueta._
_se y le son ambos diferentes CI y eso no es posible._
_You cannot say in english : _*he take off himself him the coat, *But you can say he take off him the coat = le quitó la chaqueta.
in Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado = Alguien(we are not specifiying who) le aconsejo ...

Le aconsejo que .. , the subject is specific, for instance, Juan le aconsejo ...

Saludos.


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## sudest

Se les dio unas hojas para llenar.
*It was given some forms to them to fill in it.*
*Is it correct?*


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## Outsider

sudest said:


> Se les dio unas hojas para llenar.
> *It was given some forms to them to fill in it.*


They were given some forms to fill in.


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## sudest

se le quitó la chaqueta.
*He took off the coat of her *
*what about that ?really I hardly know about se+le,les*
*please more clarification.*


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## sudest

Outsider said:


> They were given some forms to fill in.


 Why *they *not *it,he,she(dio singular)?*


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## Outsider

Because _les_ is plural.


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## sudest

Outsider said:


> Because _les_ is plural.


*Hmm.In this constructions in Spanish IO,can be changed into subject and as passive in English?*
Sorry.I meant English version of Spanish construction.


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## Outsider

In Spanish, the IO cannot be the subject of a passive voice, only the DO.


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## sudest

Outsider can you look at no.9 in this thread?


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## Bilbo Baggins

sudest said:


> se le quitó la chaqueta.
> *He took off the coat of her *
> *what about that ?really I hardly know about se+le,les*
> *please more clarification.*



_He took off her coat._ 
This is a dative of possession. It's used with body parts, articles of clothing, and other personal possessions.


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## sudest

_and without le_, *the coat was taken off?*
*am I right?*


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## Bilbo Baggins

sudest said:


> _and without le_, *the coat was taken off?*
> *am I right?*



Sí.


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## sudest

Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado.
*He was adviced  to be more careful?*


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## Bilbo Baggins

sudest said:


> Se le aconsej*ó* que tuviera mas cuidado.
> *He was adviced  to be more careful?*



You forgot the accent. Otherwise, yes. That´s correct.


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## sudest

Thanks Bilbo Baggins almost I get through a big problem for me.


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## larry b.

flyingcat2008 said:


> thank you,davi, but your example make me more confused ~~,what about"Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado."
> i can understand " le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado.",but ,the above one, difil
> ~~


 
"Se le aconsejó que tuviera más cuidado"

In this case you're saying that the important part is WHAT he was told, not WHO told him. What was he told? To be more careful. Who told him that? Nobody cares.  Just a passive voice.

"Me quité la chaqueta" = "I took off my coat"
"Se me quitó la chaqueta" (really unnatural Spanish there, but it's still "correct") = "My coat was taken off" (Passive voice)... I don't know if something like "I was taken off my coat" is correct.

Instead of "se me quitó la chaqueta", a native Spanish speaker would say "Me quitaron la chaqueta" = "They took off my jacket". 

About the "se le" cases, I can't think of an exception to this rule: "se le [verb] que" = "he was [verb] to"

Se le dijo que callara = He was told to shut up
Se le ordenó que comiera sus vegetales = She was ordered to eat her vegetables



The bad thing is that I have no idea whether I'm helping or just confusing you


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## Jeromed

Flying,
_Se_ is one of the most difficult terms to understand in Spanish. Although native speakers use it naturally in a variety of constructions, most of them can't explain the grammar behind those constructions.

I suggest that you get yourself a good grammar book or an Internet site that discusses the different uses of _se_, and try to digest what they have to say.  Otherwise, all the excellent explanations given to you here will remain what they are:  explanations for a single sentence or for a couple of sentences, and not a true understanding of the pronoun _se_.


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## marquess

sudest said:


> Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado.
> *He was advised to be more careful?*


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## marquess

YoPlatero said:


> in the sentence '_se le quito la chaqueta' the subject is 'él' and is the person who performs the action to himself. if you say that , you are saying,more or less:_
> _él a sí mismo(se) a otro(le) quito la chaqueta._
> _se y le son ambos diferentes CI y eso no es posible._
> _You cannot say in english : _*he take off himself him the coat, *But you can say he take off him the coat = le quitó la chaqueta.
> in Se le aconsejo que tuviera mas cuidado = Alguien(we are not specifiying who) le aconsejo ...
> 
> Le aconsejo que .. , the subject is specific, for instance, Juan le aconsejo ...
> 
> he takes off his coat
> he took off his coat
> 
> Saludos.


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## flyingcat2008

Jeromed said:


> Flying,
> _Se_ is one of the most difficult terms to understand in Spanish. Although native speakers use it naturally in a variety of constructions, most of them can't explain the grammar behind those constructions.
> 
> I suggest that you get yourself a good grammar book or an Internet site that discusses the different uses of _se_, and try to digest what they have to say. Otherwise, all the excellent explanations given to you here will remain what they are: explanations for a single sentence or for a couple of sentences, and not a true understanding of the pronoun _se_.


hi,Jeromed, gracias por aconsejo,tengo una grammartica libro espanol,perso muy sensillo,porque resorces limitido aqui,majority parte de mi estudio obtaina del ingles web,www.about.com.www. spanishstudy.com....,puede introduce me algunas web?


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## Jeromed

Flying,
You'll find a few here.
Take care


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## Wisconsinite

I want to share this example, because it helped some of my friends in Spanish school understand this construction. 

Mi amiga me encargó su mascota durante el fin de semana. ¿Y sabes que pasó? Se me murió la tortuga.

Se murió = it died
Se me murió = it died *on me* (one way to translate it to English) 

The "on me" translation doesn't work in every circumstance, but I think it helps to clarify some of situations. In the case of the turtle, we don't know if the turtle died due to my neglect or due to a virus completely outside my control. But _se me murió_ really emphasizes that it happened TO ME.

In the case of the raven, you probably add "on me" to the English translation and have it make any sense. But the concept could still apply, in the sense that there emphasis on the fact that it happened to him. Obviously, opening his mouth made the cheese fall, but it wasn't his intention to drop it. Just like I never meant to kill the turtle, but it happened to me anyway. : )


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## Wisconsinite

Correction to my post.



Wisconsinite said:


> In the case of the raven, you probably *could not* add "on me" to the English translation and have it make any sense. But the concept could still apply, in the sense that there emphasis on the fact that it happened to him. Obviously, opening his mouth made the cheese fall, but it wasn't his intention to drop it. Just like I never meant to kill the turtle, but it happened to me anyway. : )


 
Also, I apologize for adding another list of specialized uses of _se_, but I thought it was relevant to the original question, and helpful to other Spanish students in the past.  : )


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## flyingcat2008

muchas gracias todos,
i have read all this comments very very carefully,while i got confused ,then next opinion make me clear again
ok, as for the"*Se le quitó la chaqueta",*there some differenent opinions:
i try to make sure of it, but may get different answers, all will be great help to me
No1. he took off his coat
No2.he took off her coat
No3.his coat was taken off
NO4.more possiblity
by the way:Marcos se le quitó la chaqueta=Macos se  quitó la chaqueta=Se le quitó la chaqueta
i fully believe this will make everyone confused more,i don`t know how about native guys.but it`s really big problem ,at least to non-spanish us


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## sudest

Se le quitó la chaqueta.
To me tanslation.
*he was taken off his coat*
*Is it correct?*


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## sudest

Wisconsinite said:


> I want to share this example, because it helped some of my friends in Spanish school understand this construction.
> 
> 
> Se murió = it died
> Se me murió = it died *on me* (one way to translate it to English)
> I was killed.but I'm not sure


I think more different of you.


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## Cristina Moreno

sudest said:


> I think more different of you.


 
It most definitely isn't "I was killed" because "murió" is in the third person singular, therefore it refers to the turtle and not me!


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## sudest

Ok so I can say .* I killed him/her/it?*
*Is it correct?*


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## sudest

*I supposed that I have learned this subject.But some answers give more trouble to me. *
*Se+lo,le,les+conjugated spanish verb*
*Which one passive or not? which one not translated into English-especially lo-?*
*which one subject of the spanish version of the sentences that a lot of examples given above?*


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## Cristina Moreno

sudest said:


> Ok so I can say .* I killed him/her/it?*
> *Is it correct?*


 
Morir=to die, whereas to kill=matar (not morir) therefore it's the turtle who died and not you who killed someone or got killed.


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## Ynez

flyingcat2008 said:


> ok, as for the"*Se le quitó la chaqueta",*there some differenent opinions:
> i try to make sure of it, but may get different answers, all will be great help to me
> No1. he took off his coat
> No2.he took off her coat
> No3.his coat was taken off
> NO4.more possiblity


 
He told you that sentence is not normal...don't worry about that particular example. 

It means _his coat was taken off._

The normal way to say that in Spanish would be_ Le quitaron la chaqueta_, but that one above is also possible especially if reporting, like in the example he gave you.


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## sudest

Se me murió 
Sorry this still big trouble for me despite of thinking it for hours.


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## Jeromed

_Se murió -- It/he/she died._

_Se *me* murió -- It/he/she died *on me*_.(which means:  _I feel very sad because it/he/she died)._


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## sudest

*Hmmm. Me indicate here my feelings not I involve in any action?*


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## Wisconsinite

sudest said:


> *Hmmm. Me indicate here my feelings not I involve in any action?*


 
Yes. Exactly. The _me _indicates that you were affected by what happened. What happened is that the turtle died. And the _me _indicates you were affected by it.


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