# All Slavic languages: what = that?



## jazyk

Czech, Polish and Macedonian have different words for _that_ and _what_ used in the following sentences:

Czech: Co sis koupila?
Polish: Co kupiłaś?
Macedonian: Што имаш купиено?
English: What have you bought?

Czech: Myslím, že tě miluju.
Polish: Myślę, że cię kocham.
Macedonian Мислам дека те сакам.
English: I think (that) I love you.

But Russian has the same word:

Что ты купила?
Я думаю, что я тебя любю.

What does it look like in the other Slavic languages? Note that I'm not interested in _that_ as a relative pronoun (The book that I bought yesterday is very good).

Thanks.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Actually you talk about two different categories:
_what _is a question word (in Slovene we say _vprašalnica_)
_that _is a subordinate conjunction (Slovene: _podredni veznik_)

Slovene: 
what = _kaj_: Kaj si si kupil/kupila?
that = _da_: Mislim, da te ljubim.


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## kvvic

In Ukrainian what and that = що


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## Duya

jazyk said:


> What does it look like in the other Slavic languages? Note that I'm not interested in _that_ as a relative pronoun (The book that I bought yesterday is very good).



Mu. 

Your question carries the assumption that English _that _has one-to-one (or one-to-two) correspondence with its Slavic counterpart. In reality, the _that _(even when limited to relative pronoun) has multiple counterparts, depending on syntax. Those counterparts vary by Slavic language, but one of those is _what, _in many cases. 

For example, in Serbo-Croatian:
a) Modal verbs, or sub usually require _da:
Mislim *da* te volim _(I think *that *I love you)

b) However, in constructs like <demonstrative proverb> that <verb>, _što_ is used, i.e. the same as interrogative što/šta:
_Sve *što* znam_ (Everything *that* I know)
_To *što* sam čuo... _([The thing] _*that*_ I heard...)

c) Finally, <noun> that <verb> requires _koji (koja/koje):
Posao *koji* čeka _(The job *that* waits)
_Žena *koju* volim _(The woman whom (that) I love).

I believe you'll find similar situations in other Slavic languages.


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## jazyk

> Your question carries the assumption that English _that _has one-to-one (or one-to-two) correspondence with its Slavic counterpart. In reality, the _that _(even when limited to relative pronoun) has multiple counterparts, depending on syntax. Those counterparts vary by Slavic language, but one of those is _what, _in many cases.


I'd appreciate if you could translate the two examples I wrote (What have you bought? and I think that I love you) into Serbian. That'll be enough.


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## fIvaNNa

Also in Bulgarian:

Какво си купил??

Мисля че те обичам.



Macedonian: Што имаш купиено купено???


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## jazyk

Sure, kupeno. Kupieno was a typo.


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## natasha2000

jazyk said:


> I'd appreciate if you could translate the two examples I wrote (What have you bought? and I think that I love you) into Serbian. That'll be enough.




What have you bought? - *Šta *si kupila?
I think that I love you - Mislim *da *te volim.


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## Metju

Slovak:
What have you bought? = Čo si kúpila?
I think that I love you. = Myslím, že ťa ľúbim.


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## Metju

jazyk said:


> Czech: Co sis koupila?



Hi, you're not quite right. You've written short version of :reflexive pronoun:
Co si*s* koupila? = Co jsi *si* koupila? = What have you bought *for yourself*?

But you wanted to translate
What have you bought? = Co *jsi* koupila?


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## jazyk

> Hi, you're not quite right. You've written short version of :reflexive pronoun:


That was exactly my intention.


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## Christo Tamarin

jazyk said:


> Czech, Polish and Macedonian have different words for _that_ and _what_ used in the following sentences:
> ..
> Czech: Myslím, že tě miluju.
> Polish: Myślę, że cię kocham.
> Macedonian Мислам дека те сакам.
> English: *I think (that) I love you.*
> 
> But Russian has the same word:
> 
> Что ты купила?
> Я думаю, что я тебя любю.
> 
> What does it look like in the other Slavic languages? Note that I'm not interested in _that_ as a relative pronoun (The book that I bought yesterday is very good).
> 
> Thanks.


 
Hello *yazyk*.

You mean the so called complementizers as a kind of subordinating conjunctions which are used in Slavic languages.

In my opinion, we have three models here:

{Casus S} special complementizers
{Casus Q} complementizers originating from interrogative pronouns
{Casus T} complementizers originating from demonstrative pronouns
The following are examples of {Casus S}:


> Czech: Myslím, *že* tě miluju.
> Polish: Myślę, *że* cię kocham.
> Bulgarian: Мисля, *че* те обичам (archaic: любя).
> Slovak: Myslím, *že* ťa ľúbim.
> Slovene: Mislim, *da* te ljubim.
> Serbo-Croatian: Mislim *da* te volim_. _


*Please also note* the conjunction *да/da*. In Russian, it is correlative and archaic. In Serbo-Croatian and Slovene, that conjunction is subordinating. In Bulgarian/Macedonian (Slavo-balkanic), it is a coordinating conjunction 
used whenever to replace the former infinitive forms:


> French: Je veux t'*aider*.
> Russian: Хочу тебе *помочь*.
> Bulgarian: Искам/сакам *да* помогна.


 
The following are examples of {Casus Q}:


> French: Je crois *que* je t'aime.
> Russian: Думаю, что я тебя люблю.
> Bulgarian, archaic forms: Мисля *щото/каквото* те обичам.
> Greek: σκέφτομαι* ́οτι/που *σ'αγαπ̃ω.
> Macedonian (and some other Bulgarian dialects): Мислам *дека* те сакам.


Thus, Russian behaves exactly as Romance languages do. The Bulgarian archaic expressions using *щото/каквото *actually follow the Greek *́οτι*. Macedonian *дека* actually follows the Greek *που *both basically meaning _where._

I was not able to find examples of {Casus T} in Slavic:


> English: I think *that* I love you.
> German: Ich denke, *daß* ich dich liebe.


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## Mac_Linguist1

Christo Tamarin said:
			
		

> French: Je veux t'*aider*.
> Russian: Хочу тебе *помочь*.
> Bulgarian: Искам/сакам *да* помогна.



The Macedonian translation would be "сакам да ти помогнам".



Christo Tamarin said:


> Macedonian (and some other Bulgarian dialects): Мислам *дека* те сакам.



What you have written is characteristic of Macedonian dialects — _дека_ and _сака_ — and wouldn't be heard in Bulgaria (apart from Blagoevgrad, of course ).


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## Christo Tamarin

Mac_Linguist1 said:


> Christo Tamarin said:
> 
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> French: Je veux t'*aider*.
> Russian: Хочу тебе *помочь*.
> Bulgarian: Искам/сакам *да* *ти* помогна.
> 
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> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Macedonian translation would be "сакам да ти помогнам".
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right. I missed the pronominal object in the Bulgarian translation.



Mac_Linguist1 said:


> Christo Tamarin said:
> 
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> Macedonian (and some other Bulgarian dialects): Мислам *дека* те сакам.
> 
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> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What you have written is characteristic of Macedonian dialects — _дека_ and _сака_ — and wouldn't be heard in Bulgaria (apart from Blagoevgrad, of course ).
Click to expand...

I would not agree.

Actually, the word *дека *can be heard all over Bulgaria. The oldest form, in the old Slavic and in modern standard Bulgarian, is *къдѣ *(after 1945 reform of Bulgarian orthography: *къдe*), in eastern dialects can be heard both *къдe *and *къдя*, in Russian it is shorten to , in all Bulgarian dialects it can be shorten to first, and then it can take the parasite -*ка *ending to become *дека *in all Bulgarian dialects like some other words as _азека_/_язека_, _днеска_/_денеска_, _тука_ etc. In the middle 19th century, when the Bulgarian language was standardized, the following rule (*Drinov's rule*) was followed: Among the forms in the various dialects, that one which is closest to the old Slavic is to be accepted as the standard one. By the way, do you know which rule was followed in the middle 20th century when the Macedonian language was standardized?

The other word you argue, _*сакам*_, is common to all western Bulgarian dialects (and also to all the Torlak dialects) to mean "*want*". (Note: the main meaning of *сака *is "*want*" in Macedonian, though.) Thus, it is not limited to Blagoevgrad region but it is the regional form for Sofia, the capital city of Bulgaria, for instance. However, the eastern form, *искам*, is accepted in the standard Bulgarian to mean "*want*". The dialects of the Slavo-balkanic language are divided by the yat (*ѣ*) isogloss going approximately along the 24˚ meridian. Thus, all the territory of FYRO-Macedonia lies to the west, Sofia and Blagoevgrad are also to the west.

So, we have:


> {Casus S} Standard Bulgarian: Мисля, *че* те обичам (archaic: любя)
> {Casus Q} Sofia regional dialect: Мислим, *дека* те _сакам_.
> {Casus Q} Standard Macedonian: Мислам *дека* те сакам.


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## Mac_Linguist1

Christo, you're a very intelligent person, but you're over analyzing what I said.

You failed to pick up on was my "", which was my sarcastic way of opposing your chauvinism (grouping our languages together and referring to my country by appending the acronym "FYR").

This is getting way off-topic so I'll answer your other questions.



Christo Tamarin said:


> In the middle 19th century, when the Bulgarian language was standardized, the following rule (Drinov's rule) was followed: Among the forms in the various dialects, that one which is closest to the old Slavic is to be accepted as the standard one. By the way, do you know which rule was followed in the middle 20th century when the Macedonian language was standardized?



I'm not 100% certain as to what you mean by "rule", but the principle used by Koneski was to use the west-central dialects as the phonological base of the standard Macedonian language as it was the most widespread (i.e. covering the largest population) and because it was equally distant from both the standard Serbian and Bulgarian languages. The vocabulary however would be inclusive and lexical material would be taken from all dialects. A "rule" which isn't uncommon in the codification of standard languages.

I hope I've answered your question correctly.


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