# All dialects: ل/ن n/l shift



## outo_otus

I was wondering if anybody knows why -aan seems to become -aal in Gulf Arabic in some nouns, for example:
finjaan is pronounced 'finjaal'.

Is this common? Could anyone give any more examples of this type?

Thanks!


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## Masjeen

there is no rule here
you can say finjaal or finjaan, it is the same


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## WadiH

I can't give you the exact terminology, but obviously this has something to do with the proximity between the two sounds.

It's not restricted to Gulf or Arabian Arabic either.  In Lebanon, the surname بردويل (bardwiil) comes from "Baldwin" through the conversion of ل to ر and ن to ل.

You also have the opposite occurring in Egypt (and probably elsewhere), where برتقال becomes برتقان and جول ("goal") becomes جون.

Unfortunately, I can't remember any فنجال-type examples from Arabian or Gulf Arabic at the moment.


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## akhooha

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
I've noticed that in the Egyptian dialect (and to some extent, the Palestinian) there is sometimes a tendency for some (but not all) speakers to change ل into ن. For example:
برتقال becomes برتقان
إسماعيل becomes إسماعين
مليح becomes منيح

and ن can change into ل. For example:
فنجان becomes فنجال

I'm wondering what other words exhibit this shift and if there's any regular pattern to this sound change and if it is a feature of dialects other Egyptian or Palestinian. Thank you.


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## ayed

In Najdi Badawi dialedct, they usually call orange as بردقان


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## Izumrud

In Jordan I have heard all of your examples except برتقال - برتقان although that one isn't hard to imagine either.

Some people also say نيرة for ليرة which is slang for the currency, the دينار.


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## Schem

Both bardegan بردقان and finjal فنجال are found in sedentary Najdi dialects.

Has the link between مليح and منيح been established though?


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## abu l-bisse

Sporadic sound changes between l,n,r are a common feature of all Semitic languages.  In Palestinian Arabic I found (written in scientific transcription, I think you will understand):

l > n
nēra
mnīḥ
naqqab
nuqqēbe, nuqqabiyye, nuqbe
burtqān
Ismāʕīn
Gibrīn
Mīxāʔīn
ʕuzrāyīn
Bētīn (a village near Ramallah, which is named in the Bible Bet El)
mbāriḥ  (from al-bāriḥa; very often we find nb > mb)

n > l
zangīl (from turkish zengin)
dulum (rare for dunum)

l > r
sbīṭār
yā rēt


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## tounsi51

akhooha said:


> I've noticed that in the Egyptian dialect (and to some extent, the Palestinian) there is sometimes a tendency for some (but not all) speakers to change ل into ن. For example:
> برتقال becomes برتقان
> إسماعيل becomes إسماعين
> مليح becomes منيح
> 
> and ن can change into ل. For example:
> فنجان becomes فنجال
> 
> I'm wondering what other words exhibit this shift and if there's any regular pattern to this sound change and if it is a feature of dialects other Egyptian or Palestinian. Thank you.



It is exactly the same in Tunisia, we say بردقان for orange and we pronounce also فنجال not فنجان


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## Arabic_Police_999

ayed said:


> In Najdi Badawi dialedct, they usually call orange as بردقان


there are few people who say that, but it's not prevalent, 
most people say برتقال


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## Schem

Arabic_Police_999 said:


> there are few people who say that, but it's not prevalent,
> most people say برتقال



I'd say it's 50-50 in Gasseem and goes up (for Berdegan) as age goes up.


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## akhooha

abu l-bisse said:


> Sporadic sound changes between l,n,r are a common feature of all Semitic languages. ...


Thank you. I hadn't been aware of the shift from l to r.

أشكركم كلكم على مساهماتكم


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## Arabic_Police_999

Schem said:


> I'd say it's 50-50 in Gasseem and goes up (for Berdegan) as age goes up.



oh yeah I agree with you on Qassim, and the older the more you find it
but in Riyadh, I believe the prevalent pronunciation is برتقال 
there might be a misunderstanding I was comparing by the numbers not percentage


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## momai

بعض الناس يقولون ينعن بدلا من يلعن هنا في سوريا عند بدأ المسبة 
مثال :ينعن ابو بدلا من يلعن ابو


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## Hemza

momai said:


> بعض الناس يقولون ينعن بدلا من يلعن هنا في سوريا عند بدأ المسبة
> مثال :ينعن ابو بدلا من يلعن ابو



Almost same shift occurs in Maghrebi dialects (not sure about Libyan though) in which we say "ينعل" instead of "يلعن" .


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## Zoghbi

Shift between theses letters (noun<---->lam<---->ra) are well known in Algeria:

غلم "ghalem" (female sheep) instead of غنم.
علوان  "eulwan" (adress, title) instead of عنوان.
ماجن 'madjen" (citern) instead of ماجل.
we say also فنجال.
خرطال "khorTal" (rye) instead of خرطان.
فيجل "fidjel" (Ruta graveolens) instead of فيجن.
حصل (be blocked or to block) instead of حصر.
خيلي "kheily" (wallflower) instead of خيري


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## abu l-bisse

Found 2 more examples in Palestinian Arabic

l > r
saraṭa  (rare for salaṭa  "salad")

r > l
sīle  (for sīre  "biography, way of life")


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## Zoghbi

Another word very used in Maghreb meaning "now":
ظُرْك، ظْرُوك، دارواك، ضركة ... Dhorka, darwak, Zhrook, Zhork,... (too many variantes it's considerable and I don't mention the versions wtihout "r" like ذوق، دوكتيك..), all from ذا ا*ل*وقت, so a "lam" who become a "ra" among other deformations.


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## aisha93

This doesn't happen in Gulf Arabic
I can only think of عيوني > عنوني which is a shift from ياء to نون and is used mostly by girls to express compassion


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## ayed

Yes, we sometimes use the expression when we see a cute boy or girl specifically(a child). Look at their eyes شوفوا عنونه


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## HBZ55

Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but I (and the people I know) say borgdan, not bord9an.


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## لنـا

Also in Palestinian we say:
انطيني instead of اعطيني
ع---> ن


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## abu l-bisse

2 more examples from Palestine:

n > r
ʕilwān  (like in Algeria, thanks to Zoghbi, see above)

r > l
aṣanṣēl  (instead of aṣanṣēr which is also in use, from French "ascenseur")


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## Zoghbi

I found also some other words:
l -->n
كاسرونة"kasrona " from french casserole (pan)
زنزلة"zenzela" (seism) instead of arabic زلزلة
جرنان djornan from french "journal" (newspaper)


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## Hemza

Same in Morocco ("kasrona") although we also use "Tanjra" for "casserole".
Same for earthquake (zenzela).
The last isn't used in Morocco, we say "jarida".


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## Schem

One example I stumbled upon recently is عزرائين or عزرايين as a pronunciation of عزرائيل (who is the Angel of Death in Islamic tradition).


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## Hemza

I just thought about another shift in Moroccan: some people say "بدنجال" instead of "بدنجان" for "aubergine".


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## Zoghbi

Recently someone remember this another exemple that can be found in the Algiers's area:

الحصون el7asoun (so, thus) instead of الحصول also used depending regions, context, individuals.


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