# Slovak: the letter V



## iglesias

Hi, 

        I am a beginner of "Slovak".
        And I am still learning the alphabet 
        and pronunciation rule now.

        I have a question: 
        It seems that the letter v in a word has
        three pronunciations. /v/, /f/, /u/
        I got some information of the rules by Google.
        But still not very clear.
        Does any one give me a complete description about 
        this pronunciation rule?

        Thanks.


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## Jana337

Let's see. 

v - at the beginning of a syllable
f - in the middle of a syllable (i.e. before another consonant)
u - at the end of a syllable

This is what I could write off the top of my head, based on a few words I considered. Please wait for better replies.


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## beclija

Jana337 said:


> Let's see.
> 
> v - at the beginning of a syllable
> f - in the middle of a syllable (i.e. before another consonant)


shouldn't it be "before a _voiceless _consonsonant" according to regressive assimilation?
And does Slovak have final devoicing?


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## Outsider

Jana337 said:


> (1) v - at the beginning of a syllable
> (2) f - in the middle of a syllable (i.e. before another consonant)
> (3) u - at the end of a syllable


And how do we tell (1) from (3)?


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## Jana337

beclija said:


> shouldn't it be "before a _voiceless _consonsonant" according to regressive assimilation?
> And does Slovak have final devoicing?


I'm not ignoring you; it's just that you wrote your question in a language I do not speak.  I hope someone competent chips in.


Outsider said:


> And how do we tell (1) from (3)?


(1) Bratisla|va
(3) zastáv|ka

It's quite possible that I didn't get your question.  If it matters, we tend not to assign whole clusters of consonants to one syllable.


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## Outsider

Jana337 said:


> (1) Bratisla|va
> (3) zastáv|ka


But wouldn't _zastáv|ka_ fall under case (2) as well?


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## Jana337

Outsider said:


> But wouldn't _zastáv|ka_ fall under case (2) as well?


No. Case (2) (and remember that my classification is quite shaky) would be words like povs_|_tanie. I said "v" in the middle of a syllable, which means that some other consonant follows.

I guess it is hard for you to see where syllables start and end but we kind of know it. 

I should add (4) because I recalled words that do not fit in (1) - (3):

(4) v - in the middle of a syllable when it is followed by a vowel (tva_|_roh).


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## Outsider

I understand that this can be difficult to explain. Syllables can have a different structure in different languages.


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## elroy

Jana337 said:


> I'm not ignoring you; it's just that you wrote your question in a language I do not speak.


 ---Regressive assimilation - when a sound is modified under influence of the following sound. Example: denasalization of the letter <ą> in the Polish word <ząb> because of the following sound.
---Voiceless (or unvoiced) consonant - a consonant that, when you pronounce it, your vocal cords do not vibrate. Examples of voiceless consonants: /s/, /p/, /t/, /k/. Examples of voiced consonants: /z/, /b/, /d/, /g/. The latter differ from the former, respectively, only in their "voicedness." 
---Final devoicing - when a normally voiced consonant is pronounced unvoiced at the end of a word or syllable. Example: the pronunciation of the German word <Tag> as /ta:k/ and not */ta:g/. Incidentally, also the pronunciation of the final sound in the Polish word <ząb> as /p/ and not /b/.

I tried to define these concepts as plainly as possible. I hope I succeeded.


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## Anatoli

Jana, please confirm that this rule is different from Czech:


> (v) u - at the end of a syllable


Also, is this sound very short, like  Polish "ł"?
Then this rule seems is very similar to Ukrainian where "в" ("v") is pronounced as English "w" or Polish "ł" in such positions:

голо_в_н*и*й [holo_w_nyi] main (adjective)
бу_в_ [bu_w_] (he) was


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## Duya

I'd venture a guess that Jana actually meant /w/ rather than /u/, but let her clarify...


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## Jana337

Duya said:


> I'd venture a guess that Jana actually meant /w/ rather than /u/, but let her clarify...


I meant a non-syllabic "u", which is best described as "w" to English speakers, right.


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## cajzl

Slovak has the final devoicing, but it is not applicable to *v*:

*kov* is not pronounced /kof/ but /kou/

Slovak has regressive assimilation of voiceness (like Czech), but with some differences:

*zastávka* is not pronounced /'zasta:fka/ like in Czech, but /'zasta:uka/
*povstať* is pronounced /'pofstac/ (similarly in Czech: povstat /pofstat/)

but unlike Ukrainian голо_в_н*и*й /-_w-/_
*hlavný* is pronounced /'hlavni:/ with /-v-/ !!!

Finally:

I think that the English w (bilabial/labialized approximant?) is not identical to the non-syllabic u , but I am no expert.


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## Duya

cajzl said:


> *zastávka* is not pronounced /'zasta:fka/ like in Czech, but /'zasta:uka/
> *povstať* is pronounced /'pofstac/ (similarly in Czech: povstat /pofstat/)
> *hlavný* is pronounced /'hlavni:/ with /-v-/ !!!



Uh, my brain hurts . Slovenian doesn't have devoicing to f, and the rule there is simpler (/w/ in coda (terminal/pre-consonant) position, /ʋ/ elsewhere). Down under, in Serbo-Croatian, after some pre-consonant v's evolved into syllabic u (*u*stati, *u*čiti, *u* Beogradu), the remaining v's remain /v/ ewerywhere (no devoicing, no velarization, no assimilation): kralje*v*ski = /kra:ʎevski:/.



cajzl said:


> I think that the English w (bilabial/labialized approximant?) is not identical to the non-syllabic u , but I am no expert.



While they might be similar on the phonological level, their phonetic function is so different that they are best kept separated. AFAIK, there's no such thing as "non-sylabic u" in the phonetics.


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## Outsider

Non-syllabic vowel.

Added to which, try as I might I've never been able to split the difference between a non-syllabic  and a "true" [w].


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## Anatoli

cajzl said:


> Slovak has the final devoicing, but it is not applicable to *v*:
> 
> *kov* is not pronounced /kof/ but /kou/
> 
> Slovak has regressive assimilation of voiceness (like Czech), but with some differences:
> 
> *zastávka* is not pronounced /'zasta:fka/ like in Czech, but /'zasta:uka/
> *povstať* is pronounced /'pofstac/ (similarly in Czech: povstat /pofstat/)
> 
> but unlike Ukrainian голо_в_н*и*й /-_w-/_
> *hlavný* is pronounced /'hlavni:/ with /-v-/ !!!
> 
> Finally:
> 
> I think that the English w (bilabial/labialized approximant?) is not identical to the non-syllabic u , but I am no expert.



Thanks for your explanation, Cajzl.


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## slavic_one

Anatoli said:


> Jana, please confirm that this rule is different from Czech:
> 
> Also, is this sound very short, like  Polish "ł"?
> Then this rule seems is very similar to Ukrainian where "в" ("v") is pronounced as English "w" or Polish "ł" in such positions:
> 
> голо_в_н*и*й [holo_w_nyi] main (adjective)
> бу_в_ [bu_w_] (he) was



'v' is not pronounced like Polish 'ł', but as 'w'!

I have one usefull advice to all you learning ANY language! Listen to it! No matter on television, in songs, speakers... but listen how native speakers pronounce certain words / letters! I'm sure it will help you all!


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