# Language Learning: Should barbarisms/swearing be taught at schools?



## Sidd

I'm quite shocked I found this link that teaches how to swear (step by step) in spanish with really nice recordings (just click "next")

So I started thinking, how come BBC is theaching that stuff?

Is it internet that made swearing so necessary for understanding a language? 

What are your comments on that?


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## maxiogee

It all seems very mild to me.
I'm not sure that the BBC ought to be doing it, but I can see that the understanding of any language might be taken to include swearing.
Swearing is, unfortunately, a fact of everyday life now.
Would that it weren't!


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## cuchuflete

Why so shocked?  It's only  *part* of a section about colloquial speech.

There are other equally pernicious subjects--



> Argument                               Going out                 Money                   Special meanings                                                                  Eating and drinking                  Good and bad                  Moods                  Society                                                           Friends and family                  Health                   Play up/Play down                  Sexual swearwords                                                                                                                Girls and boys                  Interjections                  Religious terms                   Technology


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## Residente Calle 13

Sidd said:
			
		

> I'm quite shocked I found this link that teaches how to swear (step by step) in spanish with really nice recordings (just click "next")
> 
> So I started thinking, how come BBC is theaching that stuff?
> 
> Is it internet that made swearing so necessary for understanding a language?
> 
> What are your comments on that?




I guess the rationale is that students of a language might want to be able to at least understand it when somebody is telling them to go fuck themselves. They might want to be able to retort with a "fuck you, asshole!" of their own as well.

I guess the dialogues are getting more realistic.


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## zebedee

I think the teaching of words like these is both pragmatic and enlightening. These words exist and are used and heard in daily conversation. It's then up to each student, after having learnt these words, to decide whether they'd ever use them. But at least they've been taught the meaning and usage of them.
A quote from this page:


> *Coño, carajo *These can express surprise, anger or simply be used to give emphasis. Literally, and respectively, they are the female and male private parts. They're much more widely used metaphorically in a naughty rather than rude sense, nothing like their literal translation in English.


I'd have appreciated having access to this link when I first arrived in Spain.


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## badgrammar

For what it's worth, I intentionally let loose on some English swear words in front of my kids (damn's a favorite  ) so that they grow up hearing some of the same things they'd certainly hear if they were growing up in the US.  It is part of knowing a language, so you know both what is being said and its relative weight, and so you can, as an adult, express yourself like any native speaker...

It's all language!


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## Dr. Quizá

I thought at first you were talking about how to sweat! I thought to myself "WTF? What's next? How to blink?"  

Those expressions are 100% Spanish although accent is foreign and "acting" is pretty inappropiate.



			
				Sidd said:
			
		

> Is it internet that made swearing so necessary for understanding a language?



Swearing is a part of language. Furthermore, in Spain is an ESSENTIAL part of everyday language. The British community grows fastly here so it's a good idea to support the integration of these people, specially because most of them find it difficult and avoid it as much as they can.

I find disturbing swearwords censorship. Indeed, I find Spanish is pretty rich in this style of language.




			
				Residente Calle 13 said:
			
		

> I guess the rationale is that students of a language might want to be able to at least understand it when somebody is telling them to go fuck themselves. They might want to be able to retort with a "fuck you, asshole!" of their own as well.



Actually the point of knowing swear expressions used in Spain is more not to understand "you, motherfucker!" when a Spaniard is in fact meaning "you're so good, dude".


I'm glad to see Zebedee saw this positively


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## lazarus1907

It barely teaches you how to swear, in my opinion. There are expressions that foreigners will hear within a few hours of arriving to Spain, if they talk to natives. Many of them are colloquial, and not intended to be used to insult.

I don't see what it wrong.

The person who recorded those sentences is not from Spain, by the way.


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## oxazol

It is totally necessary knowing this. For me, when I speak a foreign language as english or french, I cannot be as I am in spanish (I cannot expres myself in the same way as in spanish) An important part of this problem is that sometimes you cannot swear as you would do in spanish. It is a part of the comunication..


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## Vanda

Sometimes I don´t have to. They teach me!  Well, I don´t have *that *swear vocabulary, but whenever teaching, mainly youngers, they ask you for some words. I´ve been in deep problems searching for some of them (had no idea where to look for). So, I had to learn some and one thing I´ve discovered is that saying the word in a foreign language doesn´t seem swearing at all for me. Words I´ve never said in my own language and can´t picture myself saying them, don´t sound heavy to my ears. Now I understand one of my first American teachers who would blush when we asked her to teach us a mild swearing - to our ears - that for her was tough.


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## Maryjomg

oxazol said:
			
		

> It is totally necessary knowing this. For me, when I speak a foreign language as english or french, I cannot be as I am in spanish (I cannot expres myself in the same way as in spanish) An important part of this problem is that sometimes you cannot swear as you would do in spanish. It is a part of the comunication..


 
 I completely agree with you, oxazol! I know how difficult it is to express yourself in another language without using those common words that we use in Spanish every single day. Actually, I keep on using "coño" when I have to because I can't find the English word to replace it . Even my boyfriend, who is Irish, has started using "mierda" instead of " sh*t" because he hears me saying that all the time, That's so funny!!!


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## jinti

I used to teach English to adults at a night school, and every semester, I'd get some students sidling up to me after class to check out some words. I even had a special book I'd lend them -- Dangerous English.  

I always answered those questions just as I'd answer any other. Those words are part of the language, and my students were mostly immigrant parents trying to figure out what their kids were saying, or checking up on whether the translation their kids had given was accurate. (_"Really, Mom, all the kids here call their mothers b**** -- it just means Beloved Mother Whom I Adore!"_)

So if the BBC wants to present them, why not? Not everyone has found WordReference!


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## DonGato

hello, 
I think that this cultural discussion is very interesting. I agree with Oxasol, if you are teaching or for example you are visiting for first time one country you will like to know some local expresions.
For example the same word has diferents menings in sudamerican countries than in spain, also in diferents states could has a totally diferent meaning... 

Also in some situations when you swear you gave more strong to your expresion...
for example and i would like to quote Fontanarrosa (Argentinean humorist) during the 3° Spanish Language Int. Congress wich take place in the city of Rosario in November 2004:

(...) No sé quién define lo que es vulgar y lo que no es vulgar. Pienso que las malas palabras brindan otros matices. Soy fundamentalmente un dibujante, con lo cual más de uno se preguntará 'qué hace este muchacho en esta mesa'. Hay palabras de las denominadas malas palabras que son irreemplazables, por sonoridad, por fuerza y por contextura física de la palabra. No es lo mismo decir que una persona es tonta o sonsa que 'es un pelotudo'. El secreto de la palabra pelotudo. ya universalizada -no sé si ya está en el Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas- podría referirse a un utilero de fútbol. El secreto y la fuerza está en la letra 't' (...)

He also introduce an other word: mierda / shit

(...) hay otra palabra irremplazable que es 'mierda', y el secreto de su contextura física está en la *‘erre’*. Los cubanos dicen 'mielda'. Ese es otro de los grandes problemas que ha tenido la revolución cubana, que es la imposibilidad de manifestar fuerza expresiva" (...)

Al the quoted texts are transcrption of the conference audio, so it hasn't copyrigth.


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## maxiogee

I suppose the only answer to this question - after mature deliberation - is that if people are going to swear in a foreign language it is best that they do it correctly.
Too many fights are caused in pubs by people mishearing things. my researches show that the majority of fights start when one of the combatants says… *"What did you just call me?"* because he didn't understand a fellow-countryman's dialect.

Now imagine if there is the confusion of trying to swear in a crowded Baleraric pub, and in a foreign language, and the misunderstandings which can arise… how much better to be sure that one's target understands one completely!


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## la reine victoria

I congratulate the BBC.  It is part of learning colloquialisms, and I find these fairly mild.  One can always choose whether or not to use them.

My second language is French and, over the years, I have collected some quite rich swear words.  They have been very useful on occasions in France, such as when I've been pursued by men whispering suggestively to me.  A quick  "Va te faire foutre!"  has let them know I'm not someone to be messed with.  I'm normally very easy going with men I know but if they upset me then I let fly with a torrent of abuse.  I always deeply regret it afterwards.  I hurt myself more than them.

Hangs head in shame . . . . . . . .

When military service was compulsory in the UK, one of my brothers opted for a nine months intensive Russian course in the Air Force.  It was in the 50s when the "cold war" made all in the west feel very chilly.  My brother was taught to be a streetwise Muscovite and his vocabulary was full of the most dreadful swear words and slang, which he delighted in passing on to me!  There was every chance he could have been sent to Moscow as a spy for MI 5.  He was even kitted out in authentic Russian clothing.  The call didn't come, fortunately.

So, if you are a serious language student, it is only right that you should be familiar with as many colloquialisms as possible.  If these include swearing then you can choose whether or not to use these words.


LRV


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## parodi

In my opinion, there is nothing else which gets teenagers more interested in learning a foreign language.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

As an adult learning foreign languages (and as you can see still learning English  ), I'm always glad to learn swear words. It's a part of the language I think gives me the impression to enhance my knowledge of it. Even if it's merely an impression.  And even if I will never or rarely use them.  
Moreover, it's precisely those words, once heard only once, that I never forget.  
And I totally agree with Vanda: to my ears, it doesn't sound that rude -- because not heard that often and find them pretty often "funny", so I have to carefully use them if any...


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## Chaska Ñawi

Swear words are also a wonderful window into a culture - I get to understand what things are sacrosanct enough to be sworn about!

In Canada, we're religious, sexual and scatalogical in our swearing.  Only one thing is too sacred to be denigrated by swearing - ice hockey.  You can swear about it, but never by it.


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## badgrammar

Sapristi! I love French Canadian swear words, they are indeed very religious, scato, etc.  And when you hear it the first time, you really can't understand the weight of it.  Maybe very revealing of Quebec's history and cultural?


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## daoxunchang

On the whole, I'm for the learning of swearwords of the language one is learning, because it is really important for a deeper and broader understanding of the language. More over, to learn the swearwords is essential for someone who does translation work. They are just everywhere and a good knowledge of them is important and helpful for immigrants to assimilate themselves into the society they are now.
In my personal experience, something related to sex or other original human senses can impress me  more easily. And I believe it is human's nature to swear by these matters to help express his emotions. 
I think many of us have the experience that one feels less struck when he swears in languages other than his native one and may feel a little bit superior doing so if the one he abuses does not know the language. I believe to swear in non-native language is sometimes more effective to make oneself feel better.
But of course, I'm not saying that swearwords are always used in quarrels. They are more often used in mile atmosphere to help emphasise what one is saying or even without any kind of linguistic meaning. Very often they are part of one's everyday speech. And I think one should pay attention to this, because many swearwords acceptable to one person are probably not acceptable to another.


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## Oche Gruso

LMAO. Oh, that's great. Just in case the kiddies (or anyone else for that matter) in a non-Spanish speaking society wanted to curse in front of Mommy, Daddy, or the grandparents. Although, I have to admit, since I work in a very culturally diversed place this site will be very handy. 

Ultimately, that is the only time that I can think of where it would be good to know.  There should be no reason for a person to stoop so low as to call another a name or use those kinds of words, but it happens.  (Honestly, doesn't cursing make a person sound less intelligent?)


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## maxiogee

Oche Gruso said:
			
		

> (Honestly, doesn't cursing make a person sound less intelligent?)



Everyday, common-or-garden cursing does, especially when it is dropped into conversation as 'mental breathing space'.

However, _good_ cursing, properly used, is an art form and should be taken as a sign of a large vocabulary. It can be an interesting experience to hear someone skilled with words when they hit their thumb with a hammer!


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## la reine victoria

My dear little laptop is assaulted daily with profanities from my lips.  I don't think that makes me any less intelligent.

I'd be intrigued to know which words other forer@s use when their PC becomes temperamental.  Bet you all swear like billy-o!  

*NB  Please don't post your swear words here.   TOTALLY OFF TOPIC    Remember the thread's question!  *



LRV


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## danielfranco

I think that, putting aside all moral and ethical considerations, swearing in any "as a second language" situation is a very advanced skill that a foreigner should learn.
It's an integral part of understanding the base motivations of the common denominator of a society.

When I am angry, I often swear in both English and Spanish (both at the same time, when possible!) and although it seems to profit me nothing but startled raised-eyebrows looks or shocked nostrils-flared faces, at least nobody has ever had to come back later and ask me if I was upset, or what is it that I meant to say when I said *&%^&$%^#$%@#@#^@ to him.
It might not make you look like a scholar, but what's the use of insulting someone who deserves it if he can't figure it out right away he's being insulted?
You don't think anyone needs to be insulted, ever? Then you're okay not swearing at all. And you are a much better person than I am.


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## Sidd

I love swearing in english, but let me tell you:

When you learn how to drive they don't teach you how to battle through the city, they teach you how you are _supposed_ to drive. It's _after_ you prove you know how to drive propertly that you start to learn -on your own- how to manage with crazy people not stoping at red lights and all...

So, my point here is, first you have to know the language propertly and then you let people learn how to swear. As I see it, no parents start teaching their children how to swear (in fact, some of them don't even approve it when their children are grown-ups).

So, don't you think by teaching it you are actually _agreeing_ with the use of these words? 

I know my parents knew the kind of things I did when I was around 15 (getting drunk and all that) but they pretended not to notice, because if they did, they would have to send me to my room, and they, somehow, knew it was alright because they went through the same phase. 

The fact that it is alright for a teenager to get drunk at some points doesn't mean you have to teach them how to do it. (NOTE:If you don't agree with the drinking example -I know it sounds kind of too much-, make it dating with girls or not attending some classes or whatever fits you).

So, again, from a teacher (not a learner -as a learner I loooove to know swearing words-) point of view, do you think it is alright teaching that?


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## Oche Gruso

Well, if people are going to learn anyway, they might as well learn the right way.  What I mean by this is given in a joke.  (sorry if you think it's lude, but it's the only way that I know to explain what I mean) An English speaking man went to Japan for vacation, and while there he hired the services of a prostitute.  While enjoying her company, the prostitue started to yell, "Wang chi!  Wang chi!"  The man, not knowing any Japanese, thought that he was doing something right, and persisted with more enthusiasm.  When he came back to the states, the man went on a weekend trip to the golf course with his friend.  Upon swining a hole in one, the man jumped and yelled, "Wang chi!"  His friend, being an advanced traveler, looked at the man oddly and asked, "What do you mean wrong hole?"  The point is, if the man looked it up or tried to learn any of the language he would have known what he was saying at the golf course.  That scenario can happen to anyone in any situation.  Comprende?


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## Brioche

Sidd said:
			
		

> I love swearing in english, but let me tell you:
> 
> When you learn how to drive they don't teach you how to battle through the city, they teach you how you are _supposed_ to drive. It's _after_ you prove you know how to drive propertly that you start to learn -on your own- how to manage with crazy people not stoping at red lights and all...


 
Yes, when you learn to drive, you are taught all the things you _should _do, but you will be encounter other drivers doing all the wrong things. A good driving teacher will tell you that what you see is not always what you should imitate.

If you visit or live in the country whose language you are learning, you are certain to hear many words and expressions that you should be very careful about imitating. A good teacher will instruct you in the different registers of the language. There are many words should should *know about*, so that you won't use them in the wrong situation.


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## krimo

Here's a very funny lesson : http://www.break.com/index/fword.html
(If it is forbidden to provide links, I apologize...!)

I think swearwords and colloquialism are a very important part of any language. It helps the speaker appear more natural, without necessarily being vulgar though.


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## Sidd

We all agree how useful it is to _know_ how to swear. 

But I still think that from a teacher's point of view it is in the grey zone. Would you teach your children how to swear? I'm sure the answer is no. So don't get cloud by the fact that we all love to know the dirty stuff. 

The fact is that by teaching that you are encouraging your students to be bad spoken. I'm sure they will learn it by themselves if they care enough. 

I know it will depend on the students, their age, and how interested they are the foreign language. And I'm sure I would agree with teaching that in some situations. But not as a rule.


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## Residente Calle 13

Sidd said:
			
		

> We all agree how useful it is to _know_ how to swear.
> 
> But I still think that from a teacher's point of view it is in the grey zone. Would you teach your children how to swear? I'm sure the answer is no. So don't get cloud by the fact that we all love to know the dirty stuff.
> 
> The fact is that by teaching that you are encouraging your students to be bad spoken. I'm sure they will learn it by themselves if they care enough.
> 
> I know it will depend on the students, their age, and how interested they are the foreign language. And I'm sure I would agree with teaching that in some situations. But not as a rule.



What kind of teacher? If it's a language teacher, then language should be taught or else the teacher is not doing their job.

I teach my small nephews (of six and ten) tons of things that they never imitate like "I didn't do _anything_." but they insist on "I didn't do _nothing_." so I don't thinking teaching necesarrily implies that the student will use what they learn. God only knows how many times I told my sister that "nauseaous" did not mean "nauseated" but she still says she's "nauseous."

My nephews learn tons of Domincan cuss words from their grandmother. In fact, it's just about the only Spanish they know. They hear the words, they are curious about them, and I tell them what they mean in English. They know they will get into hot water if they repeat them in front of the wrong person so they don't. Not in Spanish, not in any language.

I don't think telling a kid what "hijo de puta" means encourages them to say it anymore than I believe sex education causes teens to have sex. I tell my nephews what "bitch" means in English and that it can be offensive so they better watch it. I also teach them that not all cars stop at stop signs so they better not assume a car approaching will make a full stop when they are crossing the street.

I think it's common sense.


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## maxiogee

Residente Calle 13 said:
			
		

> God only knows how many times I told my sister that "nauseaous" did not mean "nauseated" but she still says she's "nauseous."



My computer-based copy of the Oxford American Dictionary says *nauseous* means both…
affected with nausea; inclined to vomit
&
causing nausea; offensive to the taste or smell

…so I don't know what your poor sister has been trying to say.


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## Papalote

Boy, I’ve never felt so alone in expressing my opinion.  

It has been my experience that the first words foreigners, specially young`uns  ,  learn are swear words, so why teach them in a language course?  Also, most tourist will not end up in situations where they need to swear. And if they do, they will sound more convincing if they do it in their own language. Somehow, swearing in one’s native language shows more emotion. 

With the exception of mild swearing, like shit, merde, câline, jeeze, chin,  (in the languages I know), I have always seen people use swear words to insult, hurt, demean, and debase the other.  And this verbal abuse has only helped escalate what had started as a mere diversity of opinions.

I fail to see how assimilation can be achieved by swearing fluently in the host country’s language. Perhaps for immigrant students who need to prove they fit and for those who like the shock value of swear words, the larger their vocabulary in this particular means of expression the better they will feel about themselves.   Please explain to me how an adult immigrant, with so much against him/her already, will improve his/her working conditions by constantly using words such as  asshole, dickhead, or tabernacle, câlisse, trou d’cul towards workmates.  

To use swear words to emphasize a point, without any intention of insulting, as many of you have pointed out,shows a sad lack of vocabulary. Or, as a French teacher I once had, «Cela démontre une lacune dans votre education.» (This points to a void in your education.) 

I probably dislike swearing because I cannot disassociate the meaning from the intention.

Saludos,

P


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## Residente Calle 13

Hi Papalote,



			
				Papalote said:
			
		

> It has been my experience that the first words foreigners, specially young`uns  ,  learn are swear words, so why teach them in a language course?  Because they learn them in their native language only. If an English person takes a French course, he or she won't necessarily know French cuss words. Also, most tourist will not end up in situations where they need to swear. What if your goal is not to just visit another country? What if you want to learn, say, Italian because you want to live there? And if they do, they will sound more convincing if they do it in their own language. Somehow, swearing in one’s native language shows more emotion.
> 
> With the exception of mild swearing, like shit, merde, câline, jeeze, chin,  (in the languages I know), I have always seen people use swear words to insult, hurt, demean, and debase the other.  And this verbal abuse has only helped escalate what had started as a mere diversity of opinions.
> You can debase people without cuss words. Should we not teach words like "imbécile", "idiot", "cretino" etc. because they are used to insult people?
> 
> I fail to see how assimilation can be achieved by swearing fluently in the host country’s language. Perhaps for immigrant students who need to prove they fit and for those who like the shock value of swear words, the larger their vocabulary in this particular means of expression the better they will feel about themselves.   Please explain to me how an adult immigrant, with so much against him/her already, will improve his/her working conditions by constantly using words such as  asshole, dickhead, or tabernacle, câlisse, trou d’cul towards workmates.
> Nobody is talking about telling students to call people trou du cul. What we are talking about is teaching them what they _*mean*_.
> 
> 
> To use swear words to emphasize a point, without any intention of insulting, as many of you have pointed out,shows a sad lack of vocabulary. Or, as a French teacher I once had, «Cela démontre une lacune dans votre education.» (This points to a void in your education.) To _use _*swear *words is up to the student. But it's the teacher's job to _teach_ them.
> 
> I probably dislike swearing because I cannot disassociate the meaning from the intention.
> 
> I love swearing but that's my choice. I didn't learn cuss words in French class but it was the first thing I looked up in my first French-English dictionary. I swear like a sailor in French but that has nothing to do with what teachers taught me. It's a personal choice. People control (or choose not to control) what comes out of their mouths not their teachers.
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> P


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## Oche Gruso

Papalote said:
			
		

> To use swear words to emphasize a point, without any intention of insulting, as many of you have pointed out,shows a sad lack of vocabulary. Or, as a French teacher I once had, «Cela démontre une lacune dans votre education.» (This points to a void in your education.) P


 
That is what I said in the first post I put here.  You are not alone.     Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I am a saint, because you should hear my mouth at times.  In both English and Spanish I can make a sailor blush.  The way I learned was through my parents.  I asked them what something meant and they told me so that I knew better.  My associate, hoever, was not so lucky.  She saw a character in a movie flip another the middle finger.  All she knew was that the character was mad when it performed the action.  Well, the next time that her mother ticked her off, there went the bird.  Boy, did she get a wail of a punishment!!!  So, which way do you think was the better way to learn what a curse is?  Whether it is your native language or a secondary one, I think that it would be best to learn what a word means through a second person.


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## Papalote

Originally Posted by *Papalote, now answering Residente  *

_It has been my experience that the first words foreigners, specially young`uns  , learn are swear words, so why teach them in a language course? Because they learn them in their native language only. If an English person takes a French course, he or she won't necessarily know French cuss words. But they will learn them pretty fast, by hearing them in the streets, on t.v., films, etc. So why teach them in a language course, when more needed aspects of the language are needed, like cultural aspects, art, music, history.  Also, most tourist will not end up in situations where they need to swear. What if your goal is not to just visit another country? What if you want to learn, say, Italian because you want to live there? You are changing the topic, I was talking about tourists. People who go live in a country need more useful vocabulary to find a job. Unless you are of the opinion that all immigrants belong to such uneducated levels back home that they should learn cuss words to immediately integrate their new surroundings? Otherwise, why are you trying to keep them at that limited level. And if they do, they will sound more convincing if they do it in their own language. Somehow, swearing in one’s native language shows more emotion. 

With the exception of mild swearing, like shit, merde, câline, jeeze, chin, (in the languages I know), I have always seen people use swear words to insult, hurt, demean, and debase the other. And this verbal abuse has only helped escalate what had started as a mere diversity of opinions.
You can debase people without cuss words. Should we not teach words like "imbécile", "idiot", "cretino" etc. because they are used to insult people? Not in the same way as with swear words. Otherwise, why should *asshole* replace *idiot* if you find them to be equivalent in meaning and intent. The user of asshole uses it because it conveys a much more stronger sense than the mere idiot. Or, it could also be that he ignores the existence of idiot. He probably has never heard it employed, except for the famous software manuals._
_
I fail to see how assimilation can be achieved by swearing fluently in the host country’s language. Perhaps for immigrant students who need to prove they fit and for those who like the shock value of swear words, the larger their vocabulary in this particular means of expression the better they will feel about themselves.  Please explain to me how an adult immigrant, with so much against him/her already, will improve his/her working conditions by constantly using words such as  asshole, dickhead, or tabernacle, câlisse, trou d’cul towards workmates. 
Nobody is talking about telling students to call people trou du cul. What we are talking about is teaching them what they *mean*.
Don´t be so naìve! You are going to teach them the meaning, but forbid them to use the word. How are you planning on doing this? 

To use swear words to emphasize a point, without any intention of insulting, as many of you have pointed out,shows a sad lack of vocabulary. Or, as a French teacher I once had, «Cela démontre une lacune dans votre education.» (This points to a void in your education.) To use *swear *words is up to the student. But it's the teacher's job to teach them.  Boy, I´m glad I don´t have any kids in school anymore. I hate to have to explain to my kid why he can´t use those words, how they hurt the person who hears them, even though he learned them at school. 

I probably dislike swearing because I cannot disassociate the meaning from the intention.

I love swearing but that's my choice. I didn't learn cuss words in French class but it was the first thing I looked up in my first French-English dictionary. I swear like a sailor in French but that has nothing to do with what teachers taught me. It's a personal choice. People control (or choose not to control) what comes out of their mouths not their teachers.
_
_So, it wasn´t teachers who taught you to swear. Why do you want something that is easily learnt in the streets to be taught in school? Don´t you think students could use the time to better themselves, become more knowledegeable in the arts, history, music, writings, philosophy of the culture? I guess because it is not that much fun, feels too much like too much work, and probably the teacher doesn´t have a clue about those things either._

_Yeah, you´re right, it´s a personal choice. _

_Personally, I think the BBC did that to sell more of their language tapes.  T.V. and movies are full of blood, gore and smut which sells very well. Why miss the chance to make a buck. _

_Saludos,

P_


----------



## Residente Calle 13

Papalote said:
			
		

> _
> 
> I love swearing but that's my choice. I didn't learn cuss words in French class but it was the first thing I looked up in my first French-English dictionary. I swear like a sailor in French but that has nothing to do with what teachers taught me. It's a personal choice. People control (or choose not to control) what comes out of their mouths not their teachers.
> _
> _So, it wasn´t teachers who taught you to swear. Why do you want something that is easily learnt in the streets to be taught in school? Don´t you think students could use the time to better themselves, become more knowledegeable in the arts, history, music, writings, philosophy of the culture? I guess because it is not that much fun, feels too much like too much work, and probably the teacher doesn´t have a clue about those things either._
> 
> _Yeah, you´re right, it´s a personal choice. _
> 
> _Personally, I think the BBC did that to sell more of their language tapes.  T.V. and movies are full of blood, gore and smut which sells very well. Why miss the chance to make a buck. _
> 
> _Saludos,
> 
> P_


I don't _want _teachers to teach French cuss words. Actually, I don't really care if French is taught in my country at all. But I think that if you are pretending to teach a language you can't leave out some words based on  somewhat arbitrary criteria of what is vulgar. I think that you fail to do your job if you don't teach the meaning of words a student is likely to encounter. I would not be able to understand a great deal of the French in the songs I listen to, the movies I watch, and the books I read, if I did not know those words. I taught myself because I wanted to know. It wouldn't matter one way or the other if my instructor had done a lesson on profanity.

I just would have learned it earlier and perhaps had a better grip of how vulgar words like "merde", "enculé" and "je m'en fous" really are.

Which words would you propose teachers of French as a second language omit? What's vulgar to you might not be to me or even to your next door neighbor. I can't even agree with my sister on how strong  "goddammit" is.


----------



## Sidd

I wholeheartedly agree with papalote.


----------



## danielfranco

I'm sorry if I misunderstood the direction this thread was supposed to get. I thought it was asking about the utility of teaching learners of a second (or nth) language how to swear, _in general._
But I know that I don't advocate for it to become part of the curriculum of any ESL or Anything-SL class...
However, maybe it could be like a kind of extra-curriculum activity, no? Like Chess Club, or Pet-rock Club... It'd be the $#@#$#@% Club!
Just in the interest of not having to hear someone again trying to curse me inappropriately, like, "you son of a dirty flea-infested badger, I blow my nose in your general direction! don't come back no more or I shall malign you yet again!"


----------



## Papalote

Oche Gruso said:
			
		

> That is what I said in the first post I put here. You are not alone.  Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I am a saint, because you should hear my mouth at times. In both English and Spanish I can make a sailor blush. The way I learned was through my parents. I asked them what something meant and they told me so that I knew better. My associate, hoever, was not so lucky. She saw a character in a movie flip another the middle finger. All she knew was that the character was mad when it performed the action. Well, the next time that her mother ticked her off, there went the bird. Boy, did she get a wail of a punishment!!! So, which way do you think was the better way to learn what a curse is? Whether it is your native language or a secondary one, I think that it would be best to learn what a word means through a second person.


 
I can't understand what is happening. Keep losing my replies. I"m told I'm not logged  So I'll just have to be short and to the point (boy, is that going to be hard !).

You might have a point, I also had a very similar experience with the bird. So, do you agree that the second person should be a teacher? Wouldn't it be better if, when asked about the meaning of a word, the teacher told the student to look it up in the dictionary? Not only would the students increase their vocabulary they would also acquire a new skill   .

Saludos,

Papalote


----------



## Residente Calle 13

Papalote said:
			
		

> You might have a point, I also had a very similar experience with the bird. So, do you agree that the second person should be a teacher? Wouldn't it be better if, when asked about the meaning of a word, the teacher told the student to look it up in the dictionary? Not only would the students increase their vocabulary they would also acquire a new skill   .



I agree with that! I think that's actually very good. The dictionary's description of how vulgar a word is perhaps just as good as a teacher's. The problem with obscenities is that you often have more than just a question about what it means. But having students crack a dictionary open every once in a while is not a bad idea.


----------



## Oche Gruso

Actually, I think that is a very good idea.  Far too often children or young adults in school are too lazy to open a book.  It would be killing two birds with one stone (perhaps more than two birds, actually).  That just leaves me with one question:  if the word is not in the dictionary, then what should the student do?


----------



## maxiogee

What everybody else does (don't they?) —> *Buy a *_better_* dictionary*! One can never have too many dictionaries.


----------



## Oche Gruso

maxiogee said:
			
		

> What everybody else does (don't they?) —> *Buy a *_better_* dictionary*! One can never have too many dictionaries.


LOL  Touche.  Once again, I tip my hat to  you.     (See what no sleep does to you?  LOL)  And actually, I know that everyone here hates them, but I find the websites like babelfish are actually good when it comed to defining swear words.  That's where my brother-in-law learned half of his "lovely" secondary language vocabulary.


----------



## marget

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> As an adult learning foreign languages (and as you can see still learning English  ), I'm always glad to learn swear words. It's a part of the language I think gives me the impression to enhance my knowledge of it. Even if it's merely an impression.  And even if I will never or rarely use them.
> Moreover, it's precisely those words, once heard only once, that I never forget.
> And I totally agree with Vanda: to my ears, it doesn't sound that rude -- because not heard that often and find them pretty often "funny", so I have to carefully use them if any...


 
I agree with Vanda and KaRiNe. I would use a certain swear word in French that I'd never use in English.  It doesn't seem as vulgar to me.  On the other hand, a professor once said that when a non-native speaker uses swear words, they don't sound as appropriate.  I have observed this myself.  I think one has to learn how to swear convincingly!


----------



## KaRiNe_Fr

marget said:
			
		

> I think one has to learn how to swear convincingly!


I agree with this, marget. But it's often also cute when you are not that convinced when swearing in a foreign language. At least that makes people laugh.  And as we say, if you have the laughers on your side, you're always the winner.


----------



## se16teddy

Sidd said:
			
		

> I'm quite shocked I found this link that teaches how to swear (step by step) in spanish with really nice recordings (just click "next")
> 
> So I started thinking, how come BBC is theaching that stuff?
> 
> Is it internet that made swearing so necessary for understanding a language?
> 
> What are your comments on that?


 
We call the BBC 'Auntie', not 'Mummy'. The role of a parent is to tell their offspring not to smoke, drink to excess, do drugs, sleep around, or use taboo or offensive language. However, since they are bound to do at least some of these things anyway, it is the role of aunts and uncles to teach their nephews and nieces how to do these things at minimum risk to themselves.


----------



## maxiogee

se16teddy said:
			
		

> We call the BBC 'Auntie', not 'Mummy'. The role of a parent is to tell their offspring not to smoke, drink to excess, do drugs, sleep around, or use taboo or offensive language. However, since they are bound to do at least some of these things anyway, it is the role of aunts and uncles to teach their nephews and nieces how to do these things at minimum risk to themselves.



Brilliant reasoning teddy!!!
With you 100% - and reminiscing fondly of two particular uncles, and one aunt of mine! They were *bold*!


----------



## emma42

Excellent reasoning, Teddy.

To those who disagree with the teaching of swear words in favour of teaching about history, literature, culture etc. You cannot divorce the two. "History, culture, literature" etc are not some nice, clean, pure, bourgeois entities which only deal with the concerns of "polite" society. Have you read Shakespeare lately? (or any number of texts in other languages).

Further, of course you cannot learn a language without learning its swear words. Swear words, slang etc are an *integral part* of a language. For a start, as has already been pointed out, you would have to define "swear words".

As far as teaching swear words to school students learning a foreign language, well, the constraints of the English National Curriculum would put paid to that. Also, the teacher would probably be sacked, *unless *the word in question was part of a valid lesson/discussion.  Do English teachers "teach" English swear words to native English-speaking pupils? No, they don't, but if they come up in a lesson or a text they are dealt with, discussed and explained.


----------



## maxiogee

I would imagine that the pupils are more likely to 'teach' the swear words to the teacher… "Sir, I got an email from a guy in France and he said "_Abcdefghi j'lkmnopqrs tu vwxyz_", what does that mean sir?"


----------



## emma42

I would say to that pupil, "You are in f***ing detention for a week for using language like that, and then you are in f***ing detention for another week for calling me "Sir""

Now that's teaching pupils how to swear.


----------



## Tatzingo

emma42 said:
			
		

> I would say to that pupil, "You are in f***ing detention for a week for using language like that, and then you are in f***ing detention for another week for calling me "Sir""
> 
> Now that's teaching pupils how to swear.



Wow! I'm just glad that i'm NOT a pupil in your class!!

Tatz.


----------



## Oche Gruso

Now that I think about it, should something like that be like health class where your parents sign a slip saying whether or not they want you to attend?


----------



## aragorn

A person offended by swear words is offending themselves

Swear words are generally useless and this is why they are referred to as expletives

Swear words are often used in the same manner as 'um' or 'ahh' 

Swear words are simply sounds and the interpretation of that sound is up to the listener

There is a famous story concerning The Bodyline Test Series between Australia and England early last century when there were mutual allegations of a lack of sportsmanship resulting in the English captain, Jardine, complaining that his fast bowler, Larwood, had been called a  bastard

The Australian captain immediately turned to his team and demanded to know, "Which one of you bastards called Larwood a bastard instead of Jardine?"

Jardine should have taken the advice of my mother and developed selective hearing at appropriate moments

aragorn


----------



## Poetic Device

Why should we teach our people to speak like imbaciles?  That's all that we would be doing if we allowed students to learn curse words.


----------



## panjabigator

I for one think it's great!  Honestly, most people want to know the swear words...I know I do hehe!  Besides, once you achieve the ability to swear naturally in another tongue, in my opinion, its a step in the positive direction....you are learning to speak like the natives!  The choice to use them is another topic.  Im glad I know some spanish vulgarities but I doubt I'd use them.  On a side note, I know practically no Punjabi vulgarities and Im disadvantaged then because when I speak to friends I sometimes do not understand the idea very well.


----------



## panjabigator

Poetic Device said:
			
		

> Why should we teach our people to speak like imbaciles? That's all that we would be doing if we allowed students to learn curse words.



They should at least recognize them.  It also comes with some maturity too.  I remember when we were learning the preterite of Poner in spanish, are teacher actually alotted us time to laugh for the present tense yo form.  Granted, back then, it _was_ funny to me and many, so learning vulgarities then probably wouldnt be appropriate.


----------



## emma42

[
Swear words are generally useless and this is why they are referred to as expletives

Swear words are often used in the same manner as 'um' or 'ahh' 

Swear words are simply sounds and the interpretation of that sound is up to the listener

I do not agree that swearwords are generally useless. Expletives (although swearwords are by no means always expletives) are_ incredibly_ useful. I do not understand how you could think that expletives are useless, Aragorn. What we would have in their place - xpletives generally?

Why should not swear words be used in the same manner as um or ahh. They add to the richness of language and are often cathartic.

Swear words, as all words, are, indeed, simply sounds on one level. I agree that the interpretation of the sound is up to the listener, but I feel that the speaker also has a responsibility to consider the impact of their words upon others, unless they are angry etc, in which case, well, they are angry.

Re post which implied that only imbeciles swear or that swearing makes one sound like an imbecile. This sounds like petit bourgeois polite society thinking to me and does not take into account that many, many highly intelligent, erudite, witty and creative people use swear words for various reasons. The argument that swearing always indicates a lack of vocabulary has always seemed laughable to me. Poetic Device, I am not saying that you are "petit bourgeois" or "laughable", but that is what I think of what you _said _about swearing. No offence intended.


----------



## nijinzka

Well I honestly don't think it is that bad, If you are about to learn a language and a culture you need to know a little bit of everything.
I've been living in Canada for one year now and the first thing they ask is "teach me a bad word in spanish". 
In spanish we talk with very bad words, evern if we are not swearing...
but my japanesse friends find it harder to teach, because it is really rude.

So if you are teaching a bad word or learning in another language! I think you shouldnt feel bad! hehe it is just something new everyday


----------



## aragorn

Hello emma
I will have to consider my position but I am a little short of time

I use swear words relatively frequently but find that all they add is a verbal emotional overlay that is obvious by the tone of my voice and my body language

Therefore I am wrong in that written swear words add colour and flavour to communication

aragorn
speaking as i please


----------



## emma42

Thanks, aragorn! Hey, I am not telling you you have to swear. Of course you must speak as you please.


----------



## Poetic Device

emma42 said:
			
		

> [
> Swear words are generally useless and this is why they are referred to as expletives
> 
> Swear words are often used in the same manner as 'um' or 'ahh'
> 
> Swear words are simply sounds and the interpretation of that sound is up to the listener
> 
> I do not agree that swearwords are generally useless. Expletives (although swearwords are by no means always expletives) are_ incredibly_ useful. I do not understand how you could think that expletives are useless, Aragorn. What we would have in their place - xpletives generally?
> 
> Why should not swear words be used in the same manner as um or ahh. They add to the richness of language and are often cathartic.
> 
> Swear words, as all words, are, indeed, simply sounds on one level. I agree that the interpretation of the sound is up to the listener, but I feel that the speaker also has a responsibility to consider the impact of their words upon others, unless they are angry etc, in which case, well, they are angry.
> 
> Re post which implied that only imbeciles swear or that swearing makes one sound like an imbecile. This sounds like petit bourgeois polite society thinking to me and does not take into account that many, many highly intelligent, erudite, witty and creative people use swear words for various reasons. The argument that swearing always indicates a lack of vocabulary has always seemed laughable to me. Poetic Device, I am not saying that you are "petit bourgeois" or "laughable", but that is what I think of what you _said _about swearing. No offence intended.


 
Emma,
     I understand what you are saying, and do not worry; there is no offense taken.  I actually don't think that i explained myself that well (but mind you, I still stand by what I said).  I don't think that every person that curses or swears is an uneducated person.  If that was the case, then everyone on the planet, including myself, would be incredibly stupid.  What I meant to say is that swear wqords are generally used because nothing else can be thought of.  I believe that instead of teaching students how to swear, be it in their native tongue or in a foriegn language, teachers should teach students how to broaden their vocabulary in a different aspect and also to think faster.  This would not only lessen the vulgarities but also I find that if one says more educated statements it not only confuses the opponent but also gives them no ammunition to throw back.  For instance, instead of saying to someone that they are full of &*#% say that you can't stand the over abundance of cacophony that pours out of thier oraphis.    Does that make sense?


----------



## emma42

Yes, poetic device, it does make sense. I still disagree with you, though, that you seem to be saying that swear words are less valid, expressive, descriptive than other words. I simply do not agree with that. Yes, students should be taught to broaden their vocabularies, but with all the words of a language (all other things being equal, of course, we don't want teacher to get sacked).

Three examples:

*You are full of shit , you wanker*

*I cannot stand the overabundance of cacophony that pours out of your oraphis [sic]*

*You wanker.  I cannot stand the overabundance of cacophony that pours out of your fucking  orifice.*

You see, I prefer the third, because it has _everything._


----------



## Oche Gruso

emma42 said:
			
		

> Yes, poetic device, it does make sense. I still disagree with you, though, that you seem to be saying that swear words are less valid, expressive, descriptive than other words. I simply do not agree with that. Yes, students should be taught to broaden their vocabularies, but with all the words of a language (all other things being equal, of course, we don't want teacher to get sacked).
> 
> Three examples:
> 
> *You are full of shit , you wanker*
> 
> *I cannot stand the overabundance of cacophony that pours out of your oraphis [sic]*
> 
> *You wanker. I cannot stand the overabundance of cacophony that pours out of your fucking  orifice.*
> 
> You see, I prefer the third, because it has _everything._


 
That third thing does have everything, but why can't we just simply say "Fuck you, Asswipe!"  It's quick and only an idiot wouldn't understand you.  If you are going to say something like that, you are probably too pissed to stop and think, "Gee, I should probably use big words that nobody understands."  If I had to choose, I would go with Emma42's idea.


----------



## Fedora

krimo said:
			
		

> Here's a very funny lesson : http://www.break.com/index/fword.html
> (If it is forbidden to provide links, I apologize...!)
> 
> I think swearwords and colloquialism are a very important part of any language. It helps the speaker appear more natural, without necessarily being vulgar though.



This was awesome


----------



## ZimCrusher

I am all for it. It is one of the first things I learned in China. The Italian guy, and the Indonesian Guy, next to me (in Class) started trading words. The French guy joined in,
 and we were all writing them down, when the teacher came into the class and asked what we were doing.
 We tried to explain (but he didn't speak English so it was a bit difficult) 
 He then said .. "Ohhhh... Dirty Word." We all agreed, and he then proceeded to skip the lesson for the 
 day, and do an entire class on Swearing in Chinese.
 This was great.

 Afterward, We figured out the French guy was giving us stuff like "I am Stupid." "My Head is up my Butt."
 etc. With the guise that he was teaching things like "YOU suck." "Piss Off!" Etc.
 Sneaky bastard.....


 Anyway... my friends (Who are Chinese) and I put together a software for studying Swear words.
 You can check it out at xxxxxxxxxxx
Moderator Note: The quoted URL has been removed, in keeping with WR rules, which forbid advertisement - please see #32/33/34/37/38/39 in WR rules

First lesson:
Knee sh wall duh  beow  zz  = you are my bitch


----------



## daoxunchang

Sorry, Moderator, but I think you have made a mistake. I can enter that website and open its subsites (is this word correct?).


----------



## ukuca

I think the swear words are inseperable from language where all have them. In Turkish there are tons of swear words which related to sex and which not. And you can make up a swear word by your own imagination as well.


----------



## cirrus

For myself I think it makes lots of sense to bring people up to speed on words they will hear from the moment they get off the plane.  It is useful to know the degree of taboo that goes with a word and how these vary from country to country.  The gap between what passes as relatively inoffensive in Madrid and jaw droppingly crass for example in Bogota is massive.


----------



## maxiogee

cirrus said:
			
		

> For myself I think it makes lots of sense to bring people up to speed on words they will hear from the moment they get off the plane.  It is useful to know the degree of taboo that goes with a word and how these vary from country to country.  The gap between what passes as relatively inoffensive in Madrid and jaw droppingly crass for example in Bogota is massive.



Do you not mean that the gap is small?
If you mean what you say, then that applies in Dublin - there is a large gap between the "relatively inoffensive" and the "jaw droppingly crass". I could tell my maiden aunt that was some dog-pooh on her doorstep, but I wouldn't be able to get the words out to tell here that there was dogshit there.


----------



## nombus

Just depends. If you are teaching adults or teens, they already know how to swear in their native language so why not teach them in the language they are learning. I once gave a lesson on the F...word and the students really appreciated it because they only knew the F...U use. Didn`t know about the f.....ing around, and the f......good and many other alternatives usage. Plus most modern dictionaries have plenty of vocabulary usage on most common swearwords.

Best,
N


----------



## .   1

> in Dublin - there is a large gap between the "relatively inoffensive" and the "jaw droppingly crass". I could tell my maiden aunt that was some dog-pooh on her doorstep, but I wouldn't be able to get the words out to tell here that there was dogshit there.


I have never met your maiden aunt but my widowed aunt recently reminded me that my generation did not invent crass words and some words that are now considered vulgar were quite tame in her day. Auntie Joan reads the Good Book and looks as though butter would not melt in her mouth and considers 'bugger' to be totally acceptable but utterly refuses to utter 'bloody'.

.,,


----------



## Gato_Gordo

*I believe that teaching to swear is like teaching sexual education, *they will be exposed to it sooner or latter and perhaps in a less controlled environment than a class room. 

Without a good basis the student will find him or herself in a confusing and loosing situation.

One may not want their students to swear like a sailor any more than a mother want her children to jump from bed to bed, but hiding the information from them will not prevent them to find it. ^_^


----------



## cirrus

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Do you not mean that the gap is small?
> If you mean what you say, then that applies in Dublin - there is a large gap between the "relatively inoffensive" and the "jaw droppingly crass". I could tell my maiden aunt that was some dog-pooh on her doorstep, but I wouldn't be able to get the words out to tell here that there was dogshit there.


If anything I mean the gap is anything but:

In Spain you talk about bodily functions, using the word culo (arse) is fairly common and generally doesn't cause raised eyebrows.  Compare this matter of factness to the common Colombian locution for going to the toilet - hacer sus necesidades.  If you have been sat on an poorly designed chair you can't say you have got a numb bum, you are meant to say something along the lines of this chair is really uncomfortable. Until I got used to it it felt like time travel back to uptight Victorian times and every now and again I'd use European terms only to watch people's faces fall and think soddit, said the wrong thing again!

Having said that if I go to Madrid and here someone saying coño, dame una caña it makes me whince even though I know they aren't really calling each other a c nt.


----------



## panjabigator

People in the US say the word "cus" for "curse."  I think this is only a Southern thing, because I NEVER heard this word in New York, and I lived there till I was 10.


----------



## cirrus

panjabigator said:
			
		

> People in the US say the word "cus" for "curse."  I think this is only a Southern thing, because I NEVER heard this word in New York, and I lived there till I was 10.



It's common in Jamaica and young people in the UK use it thinking it is trendy and hip.  In N English dialect it never went away in the first place.


----------



## la reine victoria

Hi Panjabigator.

It's always been around in the UK as "cuss". A well-known idiom is "I don't give a tinker's cuss" meaning "I couldn't care less".

A tinker is the old name for a travelling person (gypsy) who used to do small repair jobs to metal items, such as mending pots and pans.

I presume they were well known for "cussing" (swearing).


Edit:  Gypsies still have a reputation for putting curses on people ("cussing" them) if they refuse to buy the things they offer for sale, such as bunches of "lucky white heather".  It's nothing but superstition.




LRV


----------



## zebedee

MOD NOTE:

May I remind you of the topic in hand, namely:
"What do you think of [the BBC] teaching foreign language students how to swear in their target language?"

This thread has once again veered off-topic. 

The last few posts have been left because of their cultural value, although I'm afraid they are no more on topic than anecdotes about marbles-playing aunts. 

Any further off-topic posts will be taken to mean that the discussion has run its course and the thread will therefore be closed.

Thank you for your cooperation,

zebedee
Culture Moderator


----------



## a_n_a_r

In my opinion swear words are not only to offense they are are like expressions of the emotions .If the person swear it doesn't mean that he is impolite.Of course you should not use them everytime.I think if the person is swearing frequently he/she can not speak fluently.


----------



## Poetic Device

I think that it all depends on the mentality and whatnot of the individuals that were going to be taught swears (and maybe not so much the age).  A 25 year old will have enough sense (hopefully) to know when it would and would not be a good time to use that sort of language as opposed to a 15 year old.  Does this make sense?


----------



## Cracker Jack

Slang, cuss words, vulgarities and barbarisms are never hallmarks of a cultured individual.  Day-to-day conversations are, however replete with them.  They form no part of Standard language because they are disgusting.

But for the sake of academics, should they be taught? Language classes especially advanced ones may take them up from time to time.  Nevertheless, I don't think that there is a session or an hour that tackles the subject just like any other linguistic matter be it syntactic, grammar, spelling, orthography, phonetics, etc.

One disadvantage for a foreigner is being left clueless about what has been said. Without him knowing it, a native speaker may already have hurled invectives. The tone of saying would be a hint about the nature of the message.  But still, he is left in the dark.

What do you think? Would it be advisable to teach _fuck,_ _joder, cardar, putain, Scheiße_ in superior levels?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Outsider

Jack, I assume you are referring to slang. Because "barbarism" can have other meanings. For example, unadapted loanwords are sometimes called barbarisms...


----------



## cuchuflete

Cracker Jack said:


> Slang, cuss words, vulgarities and barbarisms are never hallmarks of a cultured individual.  Day-to-day conversations are, however replete with them.  They form no part of Standard language because they are disgusting.


 Slang is not disgusting.  Slang is not vulgar.  Some slang phrases and words may be vulgar and disgusting.


----------



## Cracker Jack

Yes Outsider, I was referring to slang.  You are right cuch.  Slang isn't vulgar.  However, I was referring to vulgar and cuss words which are disgusting.


----------



## DavyBCN

Cracker Jack said:


> Slang, cuss words, vulgarities and barbarisms are never hallmarks of a cultured individual. Day-to-day conversations are, however replete with them. They form no part of Standard language because they are disgusting.
> 
> But for the sake of academics, should they be taught? Language classes especially advanced ones may take them up from time to time. Nevertheless, I don't think that there is a session or an hour that tackles the subject just like any other linguistic matter be it syntactic, grammar, spelling, orthography, phonetics, etc.
> 
> One disadvantage for a foreigner is being left clueless about what has been said. Without him knowing it, a native speaker may already have hurled invectives. The tone of saying would be a hint about the nature of the message. But still, he is left in the dark.
> 
> What do you think? Would it be advisable to teach _fuck,_ _joder, cardar, putain, Scheiße_ in superior levels? Thanks in advance.


 


A previous post has correctly pointed out that slang is something different. As far as cuss words (or swearwords in BE) are concerned I do not see how they can be omitted from English teaching. I teach adults so would not like to comment on teaching children, but I address all and any such words as they arise in classroom. I have also, at times and being very careful that I know my students, planned lessons on the words which are most commonly used.

A big part of any teaching I do on swearwords is to stress that they can be used in different ways in English - aggressively, humourously, exclamations, etc - and also that the context and company are key factors. There are some words that I never use, others I would use with friends, but very few if any with strangers.

Different cultures can clearly create different problems in this area. There is one English swearword in particular which I hate and never use. Indeed if I had ever used it in front of my mother then my very gentle father would have slapped me - even if I had been 55 at the time! Here in Barcelona it is considered hardly offensive at all.

I use swearwords in my daily life and do not consider the ones I use disgusting. I have no argument with your differing view. I berate myself regularly for laziness more than anything, in not using a wider range of words to express my feelings. As far as language teaching is concerned however, I would be failing my students if I took a personal decision that this was a taboo subject. This does not stop me giving students my personal view on their use, just as I would on other subjects concerning the language. Give them the information and let them decide.


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## danielfranco

Yes, they should be taught, analysed, dissected, debated and finally put into practice assiduosly and earnestly until mastered as if they were second nature to the student. We cannot have foreign speakers of a tongue improperly using vulgarities, imprecations, and insults that make no sense whatsoever. We'd be remiss in educating them if we stunted the growth and development of that rather abundant resource of our lexicon.


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## Poetic Device

I personally still don't believe the teaching of swears to be a must, however I also don't think that this is a topic where the majority rule is fair.  How about we treat that segment of the lessons like sex education, where if the parent(s) do NOT want their child to participate they sign a note/waiver saying so, and the child is sent to a study hall or what have you?


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## Cracker Jack

Thank you very much for all your responses.


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