# dropping the 'd' in spoken Spanish...



## Masood

How common is it in spoken Spanish to drop the 'd' in words like _cansado _(which then becomes '_cansao_').

e.g. _Tienes pinta de cansao_ (You look tired).

Does it sound lazy or is it fairly common and acceptable?

Thanks


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## Quique Alfaro

Hola:

Hay mucha variación regional. En ciertas partes suele ser muy frecuente, en otras sonaría como una pronunciación descuidada, En general suena un _tantico_ vulgar. Pero en el habla coloquial nadie se escandalizaría.


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## blasita

Hello.

"Is it common?": it depends on the country and/or region, and maybe also on the speaker. In my neck of the woods it is quite common in very colloquial spoken Spanish.

"Is it acceptable?": this is just a matter of opinion. I think it is not recommended but, as usual, it depends on register and context. It is a fact that it is used in some places and by some speakers.

It can never be written _ao_, e.g. *_cansao_ but _cansado_.

There are quite a few threads on this matter, for example:

La omisión de "d"
Ao.

Saludos.


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## Masood

Many thanks for the replies. 
I should have qualified my question, by saying that I am referring to spoken Spanish with friends (i.e. informal setting).


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## Quique Alfaro

Hola:

My piece of advice: pronounce always the "d". But if you drop it.... colloquiallly it is OK.


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## blasita

Masood, as I mentioned earlier, I would not recommend dropping the 'd', especially for non-native speakers; there's no need. But it would be okay to do it in such a context (I often do it).


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## Wandering JJ

Blasita,

I have usually found that it seems more common to drop the 'd' in '—ado' endings than in '—ido' endings. Is this because the /ð/ seems softer in the former being sandwiched between two back vowels, or is it just a figment of my imagination?

Saludos.


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## Hulalessar

blasita said:


> Masood, as I mentioned earlier, I would not recommend dropping the 'd', especially for non-native speakers; there's no need.



Agreed. Whatever the language, it is always unwise for non-native speakers to deviate from standard pronunciation deliberately. You run the risk of getting it wrong or being thought to be making fun of non-standard pronunciations. It is different if you are in a country for a while and begin unconsciously to copy the speech habits of those around you.


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## blasita

Wandering JJ said:


> Blasita,
> I have usually found that it seems more common to drop the 'd' in '—ado' endings than in '—ido' endings. Is this because the /ð/ seems softer in the former being sandwiched between two back vowels, or is it just a figment of my imagination?


 I agree, JJ. _A_ and _o_ are strong, open vowels, and it's harder to pronounce that _d_. But I'm not an expert in pronunciation though. To me it's much more common to drop the _d_ in _-ado_ endings. Un saludo.


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## Wandering JJ

blasita said:


> I agree, JJ. But I'm not an expert in pronunciation though. To me it's more common to drop the 'd' in _-ado_ endings. Un saludo.


Thank you for the confirmation, Blasita. Un saludo.


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## Julvenzor

Creo que Andalucía y el área caribeña son las zonas donde se da este fenómeno llevado al extremo y para nada entre gente inculta (que se lo digan a mis profesores catedráticos de universidad, grito en el cielo asegurado...), en otros lugares, tanto España como Sudamérica, está presente en registros considerados llanos, bajos y coloquiales.

Por mi zona, la omisión de "d" alcanza cotas más altas, incluso cuando ésta va sola e indepediente:

_-Quillo, ¿há vihto la plasa toroh?_
-Chiquillo, ¿has visto la plaza *de* toros?


Un saludo a to*d*os (_toh_).


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## Masood

Wandering JJ said:


> Blasita,
> 
> I have usually found that it seems more common to drop the 'd' in '—ado' endings than in '—ido' endings. Is this because the /ð/ seems softer in the former being sandwiched between two *back vowels*, or is it just a figment of my imagination?
> 
> Saludos.


What's a _back vowel_?


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## duvija

I agree with 'wandering JJ' and Blasita. The simple answer is that in '-ido' your mouth, during the _ formation, is already at the place where the [d] will come, so we pronounce it. In '-ado' moving from the [a] to the [o], we have to rearrange the articulators, so call it 'laziness' or  'fast speech', it's easier to skip it altogether._


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## duvija

Masood said:


> What's a _back vowel_?




vowel space (triangle of articulators, in theory)

i           u
   e     o
       a

i and e are 'front vowels
ú and o  are 'back vowels.
a- your choice (there are many /a/)

i and u   are 'high vowels

é and o    are mid vowels (or nothing)

a    is a low vowel

They can also be characterized as round/unround, according to different theories of markedness.


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## autrex2811

Masood said:


> How common is it in spoken Spanish to drop the 'd' in words like _cansado _(which then becomes '_cansao_').
> 
> e.g. _Tienes pinta de cansao_ (You look tired).
> 
> Does it sound lazy or is it fairly common and acceptable?
> 
> 
> Thanks



I, as a Spanish speaker, suggest you pronounce that "d", just to avoid any conflict.


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## duvija

In general, I would suggest better to pronounce it, but it will sound very foreign indeed. I just found myself answering 'puede ser', and in fast speech there is no [d] whatsoever. All the voiced stops in Spanish, in between vowels, go to hell.


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## Masood

duvija said:


> vowel space (triangle of articulators, in theory)
> 
> i           u
> e     o
> a
> 
> i and e are 'front vowels
> ú and o  are 'back vowels.
> a- your choice (there are many /a/)
> 
> i and u   are 'high vowels
> 
> é and o    are mid vowels (or nothing)
> 
> a    is a low vowel
> 
> They can also be characterized as round/unround, according to different theories of markedness.


Thanks, but, sorry, I still don't understand. 
'triangle of articulators'?


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## Amapolas

Masood said:


> Thanks, but, sorry, I still don't understand.
> 'triangle of articulators'?



Masood,
Go to Google Images and search the following: articulation of vowel sounds. You'll find a lot of pictures that will help you understand why they speak about front or back or low or open or high vowels. 
Then you can try pronouncing some words and feeling where you articulate the wovels yourself in your mouth. You'll be surprised.


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## Cenzontle

Thank you, Hulalessar, for saying


> Whatever the language, it is always unwise for non-native speakers to deviate from standard pronunciation deliberately. You run the risk of getting it wrong or being thought to be making fun of non-standard pronunciations. It is different if you are in a country for a while and begin unconsciously to copy the speech habits of those around you.


I have often wanted to advise second-language learners to stick to standard pronunciation, but didn't have the rationale so clearly stated as you have done.
Nevertheless, I have sometimes advised English-speakers learning Spanish to drop their _d_'s *temporarily *to see what it feels like,
and then to bring them back into their speech *gently*, as a way of softening their occlusive English _d_.
In other words, ideally they should say [es.'ta.đo.su.'ni.đos], yes ("đ" for the voiced fricative).  But I would rather hear [es.'ta.o.su.'ni.os] than [es.'ta.*d*os.u.'ni.*d*os].


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## autrex2811

Cenzontle said:


> Thank you, Hulalessar, for saying
> 
> I have often wanted to advise second-language learners to stick to standard pronunciation, but didn't have the rationale so clearly stated as you have done.
> Nevertheless, I have sometimes advised English-speakers learning Spanish to drop their _d_'s *temporarily *to see what it feels like,
> and then to bring them back into their speech *gently*, as a way of softening their occlusive English _d_.
> In other words, ideally they should say [es.'ta.đo.su.'ni.đos], yes ("đ" for the voiced fricative).  But I would rather hear [es.'ta.o.su.'ni.os] than [es.'ta.*d*os.u.'ni.*d*os].



De hecho esa [đ], sugerida por el filólogo y fonetista Tomás Navarro, ha dejado de ser "fricativa", porque en estudios recientes se ha demostrado mediante la espectrografía que se trata de una aproximante, interdental sonora; su estructura formántica así lo pone de manifiesto. Autores fonetistas como María Fernández Planas y Eugenio Martínez Celdrán, son de los especialistas que se han dado a la tarea de tal demostración. Ahora bien, como vuelvo a repetir, yo sugeriría que sí se pronunciara esa [ð], como en: ['ka.*ð*a.'*ð*i.a] "cada día"; [ˈoi̯.'to.*ð*os.es.'ta.mos.u.'ni.*ð*os] "hoy todos estamos unidos"; claro que también dependerá de cuán eficaz fuere el alumno en mejorar su pronunciación. Además, esta aproximante [*ð*] es algo parecida al sonido del inglés "this". Creo firmemente que los maestros que enseñaren español, deben de saber esto, no para enseñarlo tan teórico, sino para proporcionar una pronunciación más correcta y acertada.


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## duvija

[*đ*] for the voiced approximant, [*ð*] for the voiced fricative (not the Spanish one, but the Greek).                                                                                                                     And (off topic) "que los maestros que enseñaren español", please, if you want to teach normal Spanish, don't use the totally dead future subjunctive.)


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## autrex2811

duvija said:


> [*đ*] for the voiced approximant, [*ð*] for the voiced fricative (not the Spanish one, but the Greek).                                                                                                                     And (off topic) "que los maestros que enseñaren español", please, if you want to teach normal Spanish, don't use the totally dead future subjunctive.)



Los manuales de fonética española también permiten esta representación [*ð*]; o más específica [ð] con un signo "T" debajo de ésta, del Alfabeto Fonético Internacional, yo me refería al español en todo momento, español, nunca aludí a otro idioma. En cuanto a [*đ*] es una representación ya bastante caída en desuso. En lo referente a enseñaren, quisieren, etc., uno usa el idioma como mejor le placiere o pluguiere, como a usted le guste; y si así no fuere, en nada les ofendo, ya que bien que se me entiende. Todavía si dijere tantas palabras raras con que al español se le suele invadir; mismas que a uno a veces con el ojo cuadrado le dejan, pues entonces allí sí que reclamo hubiere. ¿En dónde dice "requiescat in pacem" el futuro de subjuntivo, tanto el simple como el perfecto? Quien muerte le diere, ¡qué arbitrario es y será!


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## Hulalessar

We can discuss the precise articulation of the various allophones of /d/ in Spanish and how they should be represented in the IPA, but the fact is that, depending on where the sound comes and on the speaker, the articulation may range from a clear stop through a gradually relaxing continuant to zero. A non-native needs to aware at the very least of when a stop is wrong. When a stop is wrong the best policy is to use a continuant and avoid the zero option.

The thing is that if you are a non-native speaker, unless you are very lucky or started young, you are never going to achieve native pronunciation. Everyone will know you are a non-native speaker because however well you may articulate the individual sounds there will be something which gives you away. In my own case I apparently give myself away even before I open my mouth because I just do not look Spanish! It is therefore pretty pointless trying to adopt what you may perceive to be a more colloquial way of speaking in the hope of sounding more Spanish.


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## cirrus

Hulalessar said:


> It is therefore pretty pointless trying to adopt what you may perceive to be a more colloquial way of speaking in the hope of sounding more Spanish.


That's a can of worms in itself and probably worth a thread in its own right. Whilst saying lao instead of lado won't ever make you pass as a native, what it can do this is stop someone who isn't used to talking to second language speakers from turning off and thinking to themselves no matter what this person says I won't understand them. Even using non words while you get your thoughts in order eg saying eeh instead of er can make a difference.


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## jmx

Julvenzor said:


> Creo que Andalucía y el área caribeña son las zonas donde se da este fenómeno llevado al extremo y para nada entre gente inculta (que se lo digan a mis profesores catedráticos de universidad, grito en el cielo asegurado...), en otros lugares, tanto España como Sudamérica, está presente en registros considerados llanos, bajos y coloquiales.
> 
> Por mi zona, la omisión de "d" alcanza cotas más altas, incluso cuando ésta va sola e indepediente:
> 
> _-Quillo, ¿há vihto la plasa toroh?_
> -Chiquillo, ¿has visto la plaza *de* toros?


La omisión de la preposición 'de' en contextos como 'plaza de toros' es general en toda España.


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## Julvenzor

jmartins said:


> La omisión de la preposición 'de' en contextos como 'plaza de toros' es general en toda España.




¿Sí? Y luego dicen de los andaluces...


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## autrex2811

Julvenzor said:


> ¿Sí? Y luego dicen de los andaluces...



Y acá en México, si uno viaja al norte escuchará: "_cuñao, licenciao, alocao, condenao..._". Pero es que es bien complicado decir si está bien o mal dicho; es meterse en camisa de once varas. Para mí lo correcto es "licenciado, cuñado, alocado...", pero pues no soy quién para decir que lo primero está mal y sólo lo segundo es correcto.


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