# The Pope's visit to Turkey



## aslan

At the end of November,Pope Benedict XVI will visit to Turkey which is a secular country with a big Muslim Population.Due to It will be the first visit to a predominantly Muslim country,It has a special meaning.

As you all remember the pope had got a big reaction from Muslims, when he quoted Manuel ll Paleologos (a Byzantine emperor ) who said  that Prophet Mohammed had only brought evil and inhuman things.

What do you think about his visit?

What is the real purpose of this visit? to prove the wrongness of The Clash of Civilizations.? Will it be enough?


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## Paulfromitaly

aslan said:


> As you all remember the pope had got a big reaction from Muslims, when  *he stated that Prophet Mohammed had only brought evil and inhuman things.
> *



Watch out, mate: the Pope never said something like that..
Read carefully his speech if you don't want to be easily disproved..


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## invictaspirit

I would hope that the Pope is visiting Turkey in a spirit of peace and human brotherhood, and that he will be received by Turks as such.

If either assumption is wrong, either the Pope, or Turkey, is going to look like a bag of shite in the eyes of the world. 

PS. Please read the Pope's speech *BEFORE* paraphrasing it.


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## Mirko_87

How % of Christians have Turkiye?


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## aslan

Mirko_87 said:


> How % of Christians have Turkiye?


Islam is the religion of 98% of the population of Turkiye.So, i can easily say that Christian population doesn t exceed 1 % of the population.

For the religions in Turkey you may be interested in this link


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## Mirko_87

I know that a lot of people (millions) in Turkey don't practice Islam. Is absolutely false that Turkey has 98% islamic people........


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## aslan

Mirko_87 said:


> I know that a lot of people (millions) in Turkey don't practice Islam. Is absolutely false that Turkey has 98% islamic people........


 
What do you mean by saying "practising". I also dont practise Islam completely.Islam orders me to perform namaz for  five times in a day, But I don t.However, I fast dureing the holy ramadan. While I can do some of its order, I can t do some of rest. Can it be said that I am not Muslim.Everyone who says "*There is no God but Allah* and Muhammad is the Messenger of *Allah*.” is a muslim.If He or she really belives in this statement with his/her heart.

Of course, These are estimated numbers.There might be some differences betwen the real numbers


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## maxiogee

aslan said:


> What is the real purpose of this visit? to prove the wrongness of The Clash of Civilizations.? Will it be enough?



What? Are you serious?


What "clash of civilizations"?
Islam isn't a civilization any more than Catholicism is.
How would a visit by a clergyman, lasting a few days, prove the wrongness of anything?
The Pope is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church - he is not a political leader. The last Pope was highly political, this one isn't. 
As a Catholic he holds no sway over President Bush or Prime Minister Blair - neither of whom are Catholics.
He has even less sway over Muslims


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## aslan

maxiogee said:


> What? Are you serious? If you mean If I m serious about these questions. Yes I am really serious.
> 
> What "clash of civilizations"?
> Islam isn't a civilization any more than Catholicism is.
> How would a visit by a clergyman, lasting a few days, prove the wrongness of anything?
> The Pope is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church - he is not a political leader. The last Pope was highly political, this one isn't.
> As a Catholic he holds no sway over President Bush or Prime Minister Blair - neither of whom are Catholics.
> He has even less sway over Muslims


 
Could you please tell me the reasons Why is he coming? For the Christian population in turkey? Why is it discussed that much.Is it an ordinary visit?


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## maxiogee

aslan said:


> Could you please tell me the reasons Why is he coming? For the Christian population in turkey? Why is it discussed that much.Is it an ordinary visit?



I can't answer that for you. Until I read your post I didn't even kinow he was going.
I am not a Catholic, nor am I privvy to the thinking in Vatican City.
I suggest that you read the official press release about the visit. Try the Vatican's Press Office.
Why would you think that members here could tell you any more than you could find out yourself?


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## cuchuflete

According to news I read a day or two ago, he was invited by the Turkish government.  Maybe he is just being polite by accepting the invitation.


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## aslan

maxiogee said:


> I can't answer that for you. Until I read your post I didn't even kinow he was going.
> I am not a Catholic, nor am I privvy to the thinking in Vatican City.
> I suggest that you read the official press release about the visit. Try the Vatican's Press Office.
> Why would you think that members here could tell you any more than you could find out yourself?


 
My first question is "What do you think about this visit"

I meant There is something like "The Clash of Civilizations" can his visit to turkey make a contribution to get ride of it?

 
I just want to learn your opinions. Either he was invited or he wanted to come to turkey


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## cuchuflete

> VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's decision not to meet Pope Benedict during his visit to Turkey is a diplomatic snub following the pontiff's recent criticism of Islam, Italian commentators said on Thursday.





> The confirmation of the Nov 28-Dec 1 trip to the predominantly Muslim nation came in an advisory to journalists on accreditation and a separate announcement that *he was making the trip at the invitation of President Ahmet Necdet Sezer.*
> 
> 
> The *main purpose of the visit is to meet in Istanbul -- the former Constantinople -- with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew,* spiritual head of the world's Orthodox Christians.


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## invictaspirit

aslan said:


> Could you please tell me the reasons Why is he coming? For the Christian population in turkey? Why is it discussed that much.Is it an ordinary visit?


 
I didn't know he was going either. He is a Head of State and as representative of the world's largest church, he often visits other faiths. I find it odd that you think the only legitimate reason is to visit Christians. He is a world leader, irrespective of one's religion.

The main reason he is going to Turkey, however, is that he was invited by Turkey.  

Is this visit discussed that much outside Turkey? I think not. A lot of your questions need to be addressed to Turks.


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## ElaineG

> Is this visit discussed that much outside Turkey? I think not. A lot of your questions need to be addressed to Turks.


 
Actually, I read the Italian papers daily, and this is a huge story there, and I would have imagined perhaps in other European Catholic milieus. 

The Pope's visit is seen in the Italian press as bearing on: 1) Turkey's admission to the EU; 2) interfaith dialogue; and 3) the so-called clash of civilizations.  

The Italian press is watching eagerly to see whether the Pope will commit another gaffe, and drive "moderate Islam" further away from "Europe."  Or whether, on the other hand, he will help build ecumenical bridges that will have political impact.

I'm surprised posters other than Aslan seem completely indifferent or blase about the questions he raised. 

At least here in the U.S., and on the BBC, in addition to in the Italian press, the Pope's recent remarks about Islam were a huge story that went on for several days and had pundits of all stripes punditing.  

Now, the visit hasn't had the same resonance in the U.S. (but it's still a week or two away), but as I said the Italian papers are _all over it._


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## aslan

invictaspirit said:


> I didn't know he was going either. He is a Head of State and as representative of the world's largest church, he often visits other faiths. I find it odd that you think the only legitimate reason is to visit Christians. He is a world leader, irrespective of one's religion.
> 
> The main reason he is going to Turkey, however, is that he was invited by Turkey.
> 
> Is this visit discussed that much outside Turkey? I think not. A lot of your questions need to be addressed to Turks.


 
Firstly You got me wrong, I didn t said He is coming for only Christians.As seen There is a question mark.I just meant coming to turkey just for Christians isnt a main reason.(All these misunderstandigs are because of my poor english, I am sorry for that)

As said Before He was invited by Turkey(Ahmed Nejdet Sezer)But About one year ago, a cardinal stated that Pope Benedict XVI wants to visit the Muslim nation of Turkey in November but is waiting for the government in Ankara to agree to it 

He hopes he can go but now we are in talks with the government of Ankara, we have to agree about this thing,'' Cardinal Walter Kasper, Benedict's top ecumenical official,"

I don t have many things to say about your last question  ,ElaineG's post  seems quite enough.But I came across the news about this issue on the internet (especially on bbc)


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## Paulfromitaly

ElaineG said:


> The Italian press is watching eagerly to see whether the Pope will commit another gaffe, and drive "moderate Islam" further away from "Europe."  Or whether, on the other hand, he will help build ecumenical bridges that will have political impact.



As you well know, Elaine, the Italian press as well as any other countries press supports, more or less openly, a political party.
For this reason the attention is focused on the Turkish people's reaction to the Pope's visit rather than on anything else: the left wing hopes that there will be no protests or violent reactions towards his trip just to underline that the equation (formulated by the conservative wing)

Muslims = violent and dangerous people = all terrorists

is pure bullshit, whereas the right wing (especially Lega Nord) hopes there's going to be a lot of trouble and demonstrators marches against the visit just to back up the idea of getting rid of any single Muslim living on the Italian land.
By my opinion, only few devout Catholics are really interested in the religious matter behind this visit, others just see it as the usual political rubbish.


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## Outsider

aslan said:


> What do you think about his visit?
> 
> What is the real purpose of this visit? to prove the wrongness of The Clash of Civilizations.? Will it be enough?


I think the Vatican wants to show that it has good relations with Islam. Maybe there's some element of pilgrimage to it, too, as Istanbul used to be one of the big cities of Christendom, a long time ago.


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## CBBrisbois

Could the pope just be trying to fullfill st.malachy's prophecy? So that it might coincide with the bible?


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## Paulfromitaly

CBBrisbois said:


> Could the pope just be trying to fullfill st.malachy's prophecy? So that it might coincide with the bible?



Enlighten me, please: what's st.Malachy's prophecy?


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## CBBrisbois

St. *M*alachy's prophecy are the dreams that *S*t. *M*alachy had that layed out a various number of popes their symbol name and house they came from. This is very skeptical information but it is interesting nonetheless.  According to his prophecy apparently *P*ope *B*enedict is supposed to be the second last pope. *G*oogle *S*t. *M*alachy and check out some of the links, though *I* say this ag*ai*n even im  *I'm *skeptical on it, it*'*s kinda *kind of * odd* I *find that it is coinciding with these events.  AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T DIE POPE..

Moderator Note:  These forums require your best efforts to write in standard forms, including capitalization and punctuation.  Other posts that ignore this rule will be deleted.


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## aslan

Another reason for this visit, is said to improve the relationships between Catholic church and Ortodox Church. In fact Pope Benedict XVI. will not be the first Pope coming to Turkey After mutual excommunication,  there was no any developments to repair relations during 800 hundered years. The problem was solved as a result of the negotiations between Pope Paul VI and Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras , the Istanbul-based spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians In 1964. After 1964 , in1967  Pope Paul VI, and in 1979 Jean Paul  II  visited Turkey, and Pope Benedict XVI will be the third Pope coming to Turkey.
 
I have no idea, If trips were spoken that much when other popes came to Turkey or not.But Due to trip will be hold after Many of the muslim reacted angrily to a September 12 speech, the visit  quickly turned into a test of Catholic-Muslim relations.It is still unclear for me If his visit can contribute to anything or not But I consider that there will be some demonstrations, gatherings and press statements against Pope Benedict XVI during his visit. By the way, Just a small note here,   Pope Jean Paul II is  liked more than Pope Benedict XVI at least in Turkey.


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## thedeity

the visit of pope happened just because to remind turket that she is weak from all aspects.


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## panjabigator

Mirko_87 said:


> I know that a lot of people (millions) in Turkey don't practice Islam. Is absolutely false that Turkey has 98% islamic people........



Not that I am one to gauge someone's religious ardence, but perhaps just nominally 98% are muslim.


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