# Don't Learn Latin, Learn Spanish



## Bienvenidos

Hi everyone: 

   I want to play a little trick on my former Latin teacher; I only took one year of Latin as a supplement to another language course I was taking...so I want to know how to say *Don't Learn Latin, Learn Spanish. (You all, formal Don't Learn) *I want to make a big sign and hang it on her door! Evil, isn't it!?!?   

Let me know if you can help me. 
I have no idea where to start; otherwise, I'd post my intent  

THANK YOU ALL!


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## vachecow

Non Disce Latina, Disce Hispanice Loqui

Thats my best guess....I advise you wait for more before you start on your sign.


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## clara mente

I would say: Nolite discere Latinam(e), discite Hispanicam(e). One probably could use either form, as an adverb or D.O.


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## Anne345

To impress your teacher, use subjunctive : 
*ne latinam linguam didiceritis, hispaniensem linguam discite*


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## judkinsc

Perhaps:
_Ne lingua latina vos necet, discite linguam hispaniensem._

"Lest Latin harm/kill you, learn Spanish."

The more proper grammatical form would be with a subjunctive in the second part (apodosis), but the infinitive is fairly direct. The other version would have "_disceretis_" in place of "_discite_,"  and would translate as "Lest Latin harm you, you should learn Spanish."


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## Stephanus

Hoc nollem dicere seu latine seu qualibet lingua...


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## Bienvenidos

They looks great  I like yours, jud; it's funny.   She would understand it, right?

I also forgot that Spanish didn't exist when Latin was around, so sorry for that (making you all translate it when there probably wasn't a word for the language way back then)


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## judkinsc

Bienvenidos said:


> They looks great  I like yours, jud; it's funny.   She would understand it, right?



If she teaches Latin, then she would probably understand it.


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## Whodunit

_Lest Latin torment you, Spanish would be the better choice._

*Ne linguam Latinam vos excruciat, esset optio melior lingua Hispanica .*

I've tried to employ a chiasmus tro impress your teacher.


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## Bienvenidos

Whodunit, thank you so much!! That looks GREAT!!


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## jazyk

> *Ne linguam Latinam vos excruciEt, esset optio melior lingua Hispanica .*


This doesn't look right, there's no _consecutio temporum. _Excruciet is present subjuntive whereas esset is imperfect subjunctive. Both have to agree. I suggest _sit optio melio lingua hispanica/hispaniensis_.


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## Bienvenidos

Uh oh! That's not good! I just put the sign on her door today...  With those exact words on it...


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## Whodunit

jazyk said:


> This doesn't look right, there's no _consecutio temporum. _Excruciet is present subjuntive whereas esset is imperfect subjunctive. Both have to agree. I suggest _sit optio melio lingua hispanica/hispaniensis_.


 
Do they really have to agree? I chose the imperfect subjunctive in the second part, because that's how we would say it in modern languages. But nevertheless, you might be correct about the consecutio temporum.

By the way, I just looked up the verb "excrucio" here, but it doesn't seem to recognize it as a verb of the 1st conjugation, but of the 4th.


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## jazyk

Well, I've always known it to be a first conjugation verb and my dictionary corroborates that, so I don't know.


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## jazyk

> Do they really have to agree? I chose the imperfect subjunctive in the second part, because that's how we would say it in modern languages. But nevertheless, you might be correct about the consecutio temporum.


No, we wouldn't.All Romance languages would use the conditional there.


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## Whodunit

jazyk said:


> Well, I've always known it to be a first conjugation verb and my dictionary corroborates that, so I don't know.


 
You're right, my dictionary supports that it's the 1st conjugation, too. So, it must be an error of Verbix.


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## Whodunit

jazyk said:


> No, we wouldn't.All Romance languages would use the conditional there.


 
Yes, the conditional, but in which tense? In French, I'd say "Pour que la langue latine ne vous tourmente pas, vous *devriez* apprendre l'español."

By the way, I just realized that I used the accusative case in the first part, what a mistake! Here's the corrected version:

*Ne lingua Latina vos excruciet, esset/sit optio melior lingua Hispanica.*


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## jazyk

> Yes, the conditional, but in which tense? In French, I'd say "Pour que la langue latine ne vous tourmente pas, vous *devriez* apprendre l'español."


I agree. Conditional present. Except for _l'español. 

_I still think that _sit _is _de rigueur_ there, by the way. Esset would be possible in _Ne lingua latina vos excruciaret, esset optio melior lingua hispanica _(lower-case h)_.


_


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## Outsider

Whodunit said:


> Yes, the conditional, but in which tense?


It is not customary to speak of tenses (past-present-future) for the conditional. At most, you can say there is an imperfect (_devriez_) and a perfect aspect to it (_auriez dû_), but even this is not common terminology. (Well, the imperfect conditional may be called the "present conditional", but there is no "past conditional" and no "future conditional".)

It's only the subjunctive which has tenses. In Spanish, however, one of the imperfect subjunctives doubles as a conditional.


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## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> It is not customary to speak of tenses (past-present-future) for the conditional. At most, you can say there is an imperfect (_devriez_) and a perfect aspect to it (_auriez dû_), but even this is not common terminology. (Well, the imperfect conditional may be called the "present conditional", but there is no "past conditional" and no "future conditional".)
> 
> It's only the subjunctive which has tenses. In Spanish, however, one of the imperfect subjunctives doubles as a conditional.


 
Yes, you're right. I might have used the wrong terminology here. It's hard to speak about grammar in more than two different languages. In French, "doive" (L: oporteat) is the present subjunctive, "devriez" (L: oporteret) the past subjunctive, and "aurait dû" (L: oprtuisset) the pluperfect subjunctive to speak in Latin terminology, right?

However, if you think "sit" would be fit better in this context, I don't want to contradict.


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## Outsider

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the terminology used in Latin grammar...


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## jazyk

I think Whodunit's was a legitimate question, I understood and answered it fully (or so I hope ) and I don't see any problem in it.

Jazyk


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## virgilio

Outsider,
           Re:"In Spanish, however, one of the imperfect subjunctives doubles as a conditional."
Is that the "-ra" or the "-se" one?

Virgilio


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## Outsider

The "-ra-" one (which derives from the Latin pluperfect indicative, if I'm not mistaken).


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## virgilio

Outsider.
           Thanks. I thought it had to be that one. You're almost certainly right about its origin.
Best wishes
Virgilio


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## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> (which derives from the Latin pluperfect indicative, if I'm not mistaken).


 
Where did you read that? I mean it would be interesting if that were right, because that would show us how different the tenses are/were used in Spanish and Latin, but couldn't also the Latin imperfect subjunctive be the origin? Compare "(ego) amarem" and "(yo) amara".


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## Outsider

And how did that "a" at the end get in there?

The imperfect subjunctive originated the _future_ subjunctive. My reference is Williams, Edwin B., 1962, _From Latin to Portuguese_. Compare their full conjugations, and I think you'll find that the connection is pretty clear.


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## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> And how did that "a" at the end get in there?


 
I'm not that into Romance studies, but maybe the unstressed _e_ vowel in Latin has become a more stressed _a_ vowel in Spanish. I can't prove this, but to me such vowel shifts are not at all absurd.



> The imperfect subjunctive originated the _future_ subjunctive.


 
What is a _future subjunctive_? As far as I'm aware, this tense/mood didn't exist in Latin.


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## Outsider

Outsider said:


> The imperfect subjunctive originated the _future_ subjunctive.


Sorry, I went to check and this is wrong. I misremembered it.  

However, it does seem to be generally accepted that the Spanish _-ra-_ subjunctive derived from the pluperfect indicative. Anyway, I guess we're getting off-topic...



Whodunit said:


> I'm not that into Romance studies, but maybe the unstressed _e_ vowel in Latin has become a more stressed _a_ vowel in Spanish. I can't prove this, but to me such vowel shifts are not at all absurd.


They are not at all common in the history of Spanish or Portuguese. Certainly not in the evolution of the verbs. Take a careful look at the conjugations of a couple of verbs in Latin versus Spanish or Portuguese. I think you will find them persuasive.



Whodunit said:


> What is a _future subjunctive_? As far as I'm aware, this tense/mood didn't exist in Latin.


But it does in Spanish and Portuguese.


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