# Bulgarian: dear friend - skup priqtel or skŭp priyatel?



## dckayaker

Hello - 

I'm writing my good friend and would like to have the correct address at the top in Bulgarian. I would like to address it dear friend or cherished friend. 

Is  skup priqtel or skŭp priyatel best?

The friend is female, not sure if it matters in Bulgarian.

Thanks!!!


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## Oranje

Gender most certainly matters. What you've written would refer to a male and wouldn't be used in a letter.

'За моята скъпа приятелка' (_Za moyta skŭpla priyatelka_) is 'To my dear friend' (f).

Here is a guide for informal Bulgarian letter writing.


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## DarkChild

If you're trying to say "to my dear friend", it would be "на моята скъпа приятелка" (na moyata skupa priyatelka)

If you're using it as a form of address in the beginning of a letter i.e. Dear friend, I'm writing to you...., then it would be "скъпа приятелк*о*" (skupa priyatelk*o*)

NB: Bulgarian is written in Cyrillic so anything written in Latin letters is quite subjective i.e. there are tons of ways of writing it in Latin. Not one way is the correct one.


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## ahvalj

A side question. How has Bulgarian come from the meaning "avaricious" to "dear"?


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## DarkChild

ahvalj said:


> A side question. How has Bulgarian come from the meaning "avaricious" to "dear"?



Скъп really means expensive, but also valuable. This second meaning is what gets translated into English as dear.

Avaritious is алчен.


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## ahvalj

I see, but the Common Slavic meaning of _cкѫпъ_ is "avariсious". _Ал(ъ)чьнъ_ originally meant "hungry" (from _aл(ъ)кати_, cp. Lithuanian _alkti_ "to be hungry, to hunger, to desire passionately" with a parallel development of the abstract meaning as in Slavic; _alkanas_ "hungry" (with a different suffix vowel)).


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## marco_2

Yes, Bulgarian (and Macedonian) are exceptional in this respect (with _скъп / скап_ meaning "dear"), although in Bulgarian you can say e.g. _скъп на думи _(скупой на слова), there is also a noun _скъперник _(in Russian: _скряга_), _скъпчия _(скупердяй) and so on.


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## Freier Fall

ahvalj said:


> A side question. How has Bulgarian come from the meaning "avaricious" to "dear"?


I don't speak BCS, but as far as I understood Skok 1973 (Petar Skok: "Etimologijski Rječnik Hrvastkoga ili Srpskoga jezika",  Vol. 3,  "poni-Ž",  Jugoslavenska Akademija Znanosti i Umjetnosti,  Zagreb 1973, reprint), the Proto-Slavic form "skĢpъ" (sorry, if the PDF contained a misspelling: is skępъ meant here maybe?) already got "valuable" as one of two main meanings (subsequent to the original meaning "tough, stingy"). Or did I got it wrong there (page 273)?:

skup, f skupa (Vuk, Kosmet, Lumbarda), sveslav. i praslav. pridjev skĢpъ, »1° (prvobitno značenje) tvrd, škrt, džimrija (opozicija: podašan, podatljiv), 2° dragocjen, drag (opozicija: cjen, jeftin)«. Ova dva značenja razlikuju se akcentom (2° skup; akcenatska varijacija u službi semantike, upor. múka i muka). Poimeničenja: na -ьс > -ас skúpac, gen. -pea »tvrdica, cipija, cicija«. Augmentativ na -ina skupčina (Lika). Apstrakti: skupa f = na -oca skupoća, na -inja skupinja (upor. draginja, ŽK) = -ost skúpost = s dvostrukim sufiksom -otinja skupotinja (Vuk, Kosmet) = -ošćina < -ost + -sk + -ina skupošćina (Bernardin) = na -stvo skupstvo (Voltiđi). Na -arina skuparina, s pridjevom skuparinski. Denominal na -iti poskupiti pf. prema impf. na -va- poskupljivati, -Ijujem. Složen pridjev skupocjen obrazovan prema dragocjen od sintagme gen. skupe cijene. Samoglasnik u je nastao iz velarnog nazala, ç, upor. stcslav. skopt, slov. skop, bug. skăp, češ. skoupý, polj. skąpy i i u rum. posuđenice scump = cine. scumpu »1° drag, dragocjen (protivno jeftin), 2° tvrd (protivno zgîrcit, Moldavija)«, apstrakta sa lat. -tate scumpătate »skupoća«, na -еіь > -eală scumpeală »poskupljivan; e« od a scumpi »poskupiti «, sa crkvenoslav. sufiksom -enie scumpenie »škrtost«, s analogijskim sufiksom (prema foamete »glad« < vlat. fames, gen. *fametis) scumpete (također cine.) »skupoća«. Ie. usporednice nisu utvrđene. Prema Bruckneru bilo bi raširenje s pomoću formantą p korijena *skom-, koji se nalazi u skomine (v.), prema Mladenovu raširenje ie. korijena *sek- »rezati« u vezi s lit. kumpas »kriv« i gr. κάμνω »savijam«. Odnos prema lit. skupumas »štedljiv« i lot. skops »lakom« nije jasan. Loewenthal pretpostavlja prasrodstvo s lit kuopa »Pfandgeld« i lot. kampju, k'epju »greife«. 
I did not try to follow Skok's references yet:

Lit.: ARj 10, 926-27. 15, 367-380. Kusar, NVj 3, 338. Elezović 2, 237. 238. NJ 3, 88-9. Lalević, NJ 3, 56-57. Miklošič 301. Holub-Kopečný 334. Bruckner 493. KZ 42, 364. 51, 230. Mladenov 588. Loewenthal, WuS 11, 63. si. (cf. IJb 14,  333). Lane, AJPh 54, 64-65. (cf. IJb 19, 252). Pascu 2, 206- 207., br. 391. 
But as far as I understood, the meaning "valuable" is not limited to Bulgarian/Makedonian. For example Miklošič (as cited by Skok: F. Miklosich, Etymologisches Wörterbuch der slavischen Sprachen. Beč, 1886, page 301) mentions amongst others:

"s. _skup _theuer č. skoupý _karg_ [...] rm. _skump_, _skumb _theuer. _skumpete_. lit. _skupas_. _skupavims _geizen", and "nsl. skôp. skopúma _knapp_ rib." [Note: "s."="serbisch"; "č"="čechisch"; "rm."="rumunisch"; "lit."="litauisch", "nsl."="neuslovenisch"] 
So the meaning in Serbian (as excpected) as well as in Chech, "Neuslovenisch", up to "Rumunisch" (?Romanian) and Lithuanian resembles to "expensive", "precious", "scarce", maybe even to "dear".

Actually for me as a German, who uses "teuer" similar as Bulgarian does with _"скъп_" as "dear", the question arises, why other languages lost this meaning "valuable, precious...", rather than the question, why Bulgarian or Makedonian developed it or even made a shift. It's similar to - following Miklošič again, (page 49) - the situation for _drag_:

"_dorgu_: asl. _drag _kostbar. nsl. _drag_. _draginja _theuerung. b. _drag_. _dragičъk_. s. _drag_. č. _drahý_. _dráz _f. p. _drogi_. os. _drohi_. ns. _drogi_. kir. _dorohyj_. wr. _dorohov _theuerung. r. _dorogij_. r. _dorogij_. - magy. _drága_. rm. _drag_. lett. _dargs_. _dardzinat_." 
No one wonders why _drag _is used in some languages to express the worth of a dear friend. Actually I don't see such a big difference to скъп_._


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## ahvalj

As usual with your citations, only some 10 percent of the (poorly optically recognized) text is relevant, so it is hard to reply to your posts. From what I was able to decipher, the question is whether the meaning "dear" existed since the Common Slavic time or developed in South Slavic. Are there any traces of this second meaning to the north of Danube? The original etymology of this word is unknown, so we are limited to the in-Slavic evidence.


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## Freier Fall

ahvalj said:


> As usual with your citations, only some 10 percent of the (poorly optically recognized) text is relevant, so it is hard to reply to your posts.


The only text, I use, which is poorly optically recognized, is Skok 1971-1973. All other quoted texts I'm typing. So I guess you are critizising the quality of my posts in general. Or even more (German texts, old spellings, ....?). I won't quote and post anymore here. That will solve all problems you got with that.



> Are there any traces of this second meaning to the north of Danube? The original etymology of this word is unknown, so we are limited to the in-Slavic evidence.


I thought, Czech tends to it, but it seems, I interpreted "č. skoupý _karg" in _Miklošič 1886 wrong (I also got Lithuanian wrong, even though not Slavic). But 'Neuslovenisch' ("knapp") tends to this second meaning (German "knapp" tends to "in insufficient supply", but never to "stingy", "tough") as far as I understood, but you might define it as South of Danube. By the way you did not speak about South Slavic in the beginning, but about Bulgarian only. Just as a reminder. And I still can't track the problem you wanted to clarify:


ahvalj said:


> A side question. How has Bulgarian come from the meaning "avaricious" to "dear"?





> From what I was able to decipher, the question is whether the  meaning "dear" existed since the Common Slavic time or developed in  South Slavic.


Thanks and bye.


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## ahvalj

There is no need for such an emotional reaction: we all learn a lot when trying to convey our thoughts to others. Every expression is aimed to reach the audience, and the statements have to be compact and relevant, otherwise the lazy readers will turn to something funnier and less complicated. That's how the animal perception works, it is just biology.


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## Freier Fall

ahvalj said:


> There is no need for such an emotional reaction: we all learn a lot when trying to convey our thoughts to others. Every expression is aimed to reach the audience, and the statements have to be compact and relevant, otherwise the lazy readers will turn to something funnier and less complicated. That's how the animal perception works, it is just biology.


I can't reduce a source to its central passage, when I can't understand its language (as it is the case with BCS in Skok 1971-1973). If you had told me, that you don't like posting full quotes of Skok, I would have posted a link to archive.org. In this case: https://archive.org/stream/Etimolog...rvatskogaIliSrpskogaJezika#page/n901/mode/2up I noticed (and explicitly mentioned) spelling errors (probably caused by OCR) for this source here before (archive.org mentions ABBYY FineReader 8.0 for OCR).

But I think I tried to reduce German posts to their central passages. And you don't like them either. But you explained it very nice. And I don't want anyone to turn to an animal. Thanks for the biology lession and bye.


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## cooldewd

Of course, if all this talk about "Skap/Skapa" is driving you nuts, you could always use "draga" which means pretty much the same thing.

And Freier Fall, don't take the pompous and arrogant around here to heart. They love belittling people.


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## Freier Fall

cooldewd said:


> Of course, if all this talk about "Skap/Skapa" is driving you nuts, you could always use "draga" which means pretty much the same thing.
> 
> And Freier Fall, don't take the pompous and arrogant around here to heart. They love belittling people.


Haha, thanks man, I think, from the other end of the world, your Macedonian ear heard me defending my unshareable скъпа and драга as being the one and same.
But ahvalj was right. I'm out of place and won't beat on doors again just to participate in something strange. Wish you all the best, guys. Bye now.


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## DarkChild

Драга is a borderline archaic word. Rarely used. Actually, мила is used more commonly.


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## Freier Fall

DarkChild said:


> Драга is a borderline archaic word. Rarely used. Actually, мила is used more commonly.



That's what I'm calling strange. Добър вечер самота, налей по нещо драга, остани до сутринта. Mila is nothing, draga is all and everything for me.


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## DarkChild

Freier Fall said:


> That's what I'm calling strange. Добър вечер самота, налей по нещо драга, остани до сутринта. Mila is nothing, draga is all and everything for me.



Song lyrics aren't exactly a true reflection of the modern spoken language.

I don't know what you mean by your last sentence.


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## Freier Fall

DarkChild said:


> I don't know what you mean by your last sentence.


That I came for a spirit. That I am out of place.


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