# We are losing this war badly.



## hack3rcon

Hello.
I'm reading _Mafiaboy_, by Michael Calce and I want to know in below text what does "We are losing this war badly," mean? Can it have any special mean?
"Operation Bot Roast rounded up a handful of botherders but has done little to slow the growth of botnets. Rick Wesson, chief executive of Support Intelligence, a U.S. company that monitors computer security trends, told The New York Times in 2007 that his company was tracking two hundred and fifty thousand new botnet infections per day. "We are losing this war badly," he said.
Which is very bad news for you and your PC."


Thank you.


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## hack3rcon

Yalta said:


> Yes, as a variant.


lost == fail ?


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## heypresto

It's not 'lost', it's 'losing'. In the OP there's no mention of having_ lost_ the war, just that they are _losin_g the war.


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## Yalta

> lost == fail ?



to fail in a war...


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## boozer

They are losing the war badly because they are 'overwhelmed'. 'Badly' suggests something like 'by a large margin' or 'with no hope of winning'. The war has not been 'completely lost' yet (as suggested by Yalta in post 2  ), but for now it looks as though we are about to be routed. Prospects may still change...


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## hack3rcon

heypresto said:


> It's not 'lost', it's 'losing'. In the OP there's no mention of having_ lost_ the war, just that they are _losin_g the war.


"Losing" can't mean "failing" ?

Can "Badly" mean "completely" ?


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## heypresto

hack3rcon said:


> "Losing" can't mean "failing" ?



Not really. You can't 'fail' a war, or be 'failing' a war.


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## boozer

The standard collocation is win/lose a war and fail/pass an exam.


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## heypresto

hack3rcon said:


> Can "Badly" mean "completely" ?



See boozer's post #8 for a good explanation.


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## hack3rcon

by a large margin == a large area ?


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## heypresto

How can you win or lose by an area, large or small?

Have you looked in the WR Dictionary for a _logically possible_ meaning?


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## hack3rcon

heypresto said:


> How can you win or lose by an area, large or small?
> 
> Have you looked in the WR Dictionary for a _logically possible_ meaning?


I see. How about "a border or edge" ?
Can it mean something like "Zone" ?


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## heypresto

Does that sound logically possible? Can you win or lose a war by a border or edge or zone?


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## hack3rcon

heypresto said:


> Does that sound logically possible? Can you win or lose a war by a border or edge or zone?


We are losing this game in a large range?


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## boozer

This can go on for some time. There are many definitions there. 
Definition 4, top to bottom...
an amount or degree of difference:to win by a margin of three votes.


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## hack3rcon

boozer said:


> They are losing the war badly because they are 'overwhelmed'. 'Badly' suggests something like 'by a large margin' or 'with no hope of winning'. The war has not been 'completely lost' yet (as suggested by Yalta in post 2  ), but for now it looks as though we are about to be routed. Prospects may still change...


Which one is better? "by a large margin" or "with no hope of winning" ?


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## panjandrum

Neither is better than the other. The choice would depend on the reason for making the comment.
Back to the original question, which seems to have been forgotten in side-questions:
"We are losing this war badly" has no special meaning. It means simply what it says.

Imagine you are playing a football match.
It is half time, and your team has not scored, the other team has scored 16 goals.
Your team is losing the match badly.
It doesn't matter why you are losing, whether it is incompetence on the part of your team, corruption of the match officials, the wrong size of boots, or whatever.  By any objective measurement, you are losing the match, and you are losing the match badly.


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## hack3rcon

panjandrum said:


> Neither is better than the other. The choice would depend on the reason for making the comment.
> Back to the original question, which seems to have been forgotten in side-questions:
> "We are losing this war badly" has no special meaning. It means simply what it says.
> 
> Imagine you are playing a football match.
> It is half time, and your team has not scored, the other team has scored 16 goals.
> Your team is losing the match badly.
> It doesn't matter why you are losing, whether it is incompetence on the part of your team, corruption of the match officials, the wrong size of boots, or whatever.  By any objective measurement, you are losing the match, and you are losing the match badly.


Thus, It doesn't mean "by a large margin" ? I want to know can "badly" have any special mean. see post #5.


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## Cagey

hack3rcon said:


> Thus, It doesn't mean "by a large margin" ?


Why do you think it doesn't mean 'by a large margin'?

Look at the definitions for badly used as adverb.  Find the one that seems to fit.


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## hack3rcon

Cagey said:


> Why do you think it doesn't mean 'by a large margin'?
> 
> Look at the definitions for badly used as adverb.  Find the one that seems to fit.


Ah, Can it mean "We are losing this war very bad" ?


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## sound shift

hack3rcon said:


> Ah, Can it mean "We are losing this war very bad" ?


No, because "We are losing this war very bad" is unidiomatic English.


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## Barque

Let me give you a football example (I assume you follow football).

Russia and England are playing a match.

1. They are tied at 0-0 after ninety minutes and extra time and then England wins 5-4 on penalties. Russia didn't lose badly because it was a very close match.

2. England win the match 5-0. Russia have lost badly.

3. England are leading 3-0 after seventy minutes. They then decide to try out a couple of new strikers who've never been capped before. Their 50-year-old coach who retired from competitive football fifteen years ago decides he wants to play too and comes on as a substitute for the goalkeeper. Those new strikers score three more goals while Russia still can't score and England wins 6-0. Russian have lost very very badly.


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## hack3rcon

sound shift said:


> No, because "We are losing this war very bad" is unidiomatic English.


I found very bad on "badly - WordReference.com Dictionary of English". Can you choice a better option?


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> Let me give you a football example (I assume you follow football).
> 
> Russia and England are playing a match.
> 
> 1. They are tied at 0-0 after ninety minutes and extra time and then England wins 5-4 on penalties. Russia didn't lose badly because it was a very close match.
> 
> 2. England win the match 5-0. Russia have lost badly.
> 
> 3. England are leading 3-0 after seventy minutes. They then decide to try out a couple of new strikers who've never been capped before. Their 50-year-old coach who retired from competitive football fifteen years ago decides he wants to play too and comes on as a substitute for the goalkeeper. Those new strikers score three more goals while Russia still can't score and England wins 6-0. Russian have lost very very badly.


Can you translate "badly" to other words or rewrite the sentence?


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## Barque

Don't those examples tell you what "badly" means? I made them up thinking they'd be easier to understand than an explanation of the meaning.

"Losing badly" means "losing by a great margin", or being completely outclassed. The "margin" needn't necessarily be a quantifiable one, as in number of goals scored. If someone who defeats you does so very easily, that could also be a "bad" loss.


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> Don't those examples tell you what "badly" means? I made them up thinking they'd be easier to understand than an explanation of the meaning.
> 
> "Losing badly" means "losing by a great margin", or being completely outclassed. The "margin" needn't necessarily be a quantifiable one, as in number of goals scored. If someone who defeats you does so very easily, that could also be a "bad" loss.


I can't understand "margin". it can mean "span" too!!!!
Thus, "We are losing this war very easy" ?


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## Barque

If one side is extremely weak as compared to the other, and the other is winning the war easily, the losing side can be said to be "losing badly".


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> If one side is extremely weak as compared to the other, and the other is winning the war easily, the losing side can be said to be "losing badly".


You can see the sentence in the first post. Thus, It can't mean "very easy" ?


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## heypresto

Read Barque's comment again. If the _winning_ side is winning the war easily (not 'very easy'), then the _losing_ side can be said to be losing badly.


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## PaulQ

hack3rcon said:


> I want to know in below text what does "We are losing this war badly," mean? Can it have any special mean?


No - it has its natural meaning:

For us, the war is progressing very unsuccessfully (- we are not achieving our goals and we are having no significant victories or breakthroughs.)


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## hack3rcon

PaulQ said:


> No - it has its natural meaning:
> 
> For us, the war is progressing very unsuccessfully (- we are not achieving our goals and we are having no significant victories or breakthroughs.)


Thus, Can it mean "We are losing this war in a way that is not acceptable" ?
I saw "badly Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary".


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## Barque

It doesn't _mean _"not acceptable", though it might _be_ unacceptable. 

Losing badly refers to losing something by a huge margin. or a huge difference. 

If you lose a football match 0-1, you haven't lost badly. That's the smallest margin of defeat you'll find. 
But if you lose a football match 0-10, you _have _lost badly.


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## heypresto

No. Is there an _acceptable_ way to be losing a war?


Cross-posted.


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> It doesn't _mean _"not acceptable", though it might _be_ unacceptable.
> 
> Losing badly refers to losing something by a huge margin. or a huge difference.
> 
> If you lose a football match 0-1, you haven't lost badly. That's the smallest margin of defeat you'll find.
> But if you lose a football match 0-10, you _have _lost badly.


Ah, "huge difference". Why "Badly" can't mean "Very bad" ?


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## heypresto

hack3rcon said:


> Ah, "huge difference"


That's what we meant when we were discussing 'by a wide margin' above.



hack3rcon said:


> Why "Badly" can't mean "Very bad" ?



'Badly' is an adverb, 'very bad' is an adjective.


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## hack3rcon

heypresto said:


> That's what we meant when we were discussing 'by a wide margin' above.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Badly' is an adverb, 'very bad' is an adjective.


How about "In a bad manner" ? I can't understand "margin"!!!


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## Oleg68

hack3rcon, you will never understand them because you translate every English word into Russian literally.
We use other words to say "to lose badly".


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## Barque

hack3rcon said:


> How about "In a bad manner" ?


Close, but not really. There's a difference between losing in a bad manner and losing badly. The former relates to quality while the latter refers to the gap between the winner and the loser. 


hack3rcon said:


> I can't understand "margin"!!!


The definition might help. 
margin (WR dictionary): an amount or degree of difference: _to win by a margin of three votes._


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> Close, but not really. There's a difference between losing in a bad manner and losing badly. The former relates to quality while the latter refers to the gap between the winner and the loser.
> 
> The definition might help.
> margin (WR dictionary): an amount or degree of difference: _to win by a margin of three votes._


"We are losing this war with a huge difference".


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## Barque

I wouldn't put it that way but I think you've got the idea.


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## hack3rcon

Barque said:


> I wouldn't put it that way but I think you've got the idea.


I saw post #32.


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## PaulQ

hack3rcon said:


> I found very bad on "badly - WordReference.com Dictionary of English". Can you choice a better option?





hack3rcon said:


> what does "We are losing this war badly," mean?


"Badly" is, indeed an adjective and it is in this example.

Compare:
She arrived at the meeting drunk = She arrived at the meeting, *and she was *drunk.
"We are losing this war badly," = "We are losing this war and it (the process of our defeat) is bad,"


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## hack3rcon

PaulQ said:


> "Badly" is, indeed an adjective and it is in this example.
> 
> Compare:
> She arrived at the meeting drunk = She arrived at the meeting, *and she was *drunk.
> "We are losing this war badly," = "We are losing this war and it (the process of our defeat) is bad,"


Are you agree with "We are losing this war with a huge difference" ?


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## PaulQ

hack3rcon said:


> Are you agree with "We are losing this war with a huge difference" ?


*Do* you agree that this means "We are losing this war *by a large margin.*"?

Yes, it indicates that "we" are not performing well against the enemy. There is a big difference between their performance, which is successful, and our performance, which isn't.

In other circumstances, it is possible to play well and yet the match goes badly.


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## hack3rcon

PaulQ said:


> *Do* you agree that this means "We are losing this war *by a large margin.*"?
> 
> Yes, it indicates that "we" are not performing well against the enemy. There is a big difference between their performance, which is successful, and our performance, which isn't.
> 
> In other circumstances, it is possible to play well and yet the match goes badly.


by a large margin == huge difference


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## Cagey

PaulQ said:


> "Badly" is, indeed an adjective and it is in this example.
> 
> Compare:
> She arrived at the meeting drunk = She arrived at the meeting, *and she was *drunk.
> "We are losing this war badly," = "We are losing this war and it (the process of our defeat) is bad,"


I would call 'badly' an adverb in the sentence 'We are losing this war badly', where it is the equivalent of the prepositional phrase "by a wide margin / to a great extent."
It is possible to say, for instance, "We lost badly" without any noun to modify. 

But perhaps I misunderstood your post.


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## hack3rcon

Cagey said:


> I would call 'badly' an adverb in the sentence 'We are losing this war badly', where it is the equivalent of the prepositional phrase "by a wide margin / to a great extent."
> It is possible to say, for instance, "We lost badly" without any noun to modify.
> 
> But perhaps I misunderstood your post.


by a large margin == huge difference == to a great extent ?


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## Cagey

hack3rcon said:


> by a large margin == huge difference == to a great extent ?


Yes, in this context that is what I mean.


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