# Abbreviation of number - N, N°, Nr, Nbr, No?



## Fede_F

Hallo,

which is the correct abbreviation of "number"?
N.   
N°.  
Nr. 

Thanks

Fede


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## Sallyb36

No.

that is how we do it in the UK.


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## sazza

And in Oz, too.
''No. 2 Is up next''
Not sure if it's universal but you can also use the symbol #


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## Fede_F

Thank you both Sally and Sazza for the quick answer.

Sazza, what's Oz?

Fede


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## sazza

Australia! (Oztralia)


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## panjandrum

Hello and welcome, Fede F 

You will find that different countries, and indeed different organisations, have different abbreviations.

No
No.
no
no.
... are commonly used - based on the Latin _numero_ (from _numerus_, number).

In AE, # is often used and so is often found in places where AE-speak is understood. Members here would refer to post #23 for example.


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## aprentice

Hi all,

Is it correct to say _“Nbr._ of projects_”,_ or “_Nbr._ of problems”?

If not, which would be the right way to write "the contraction of the word _number_”?

Thanks much!


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## edval89

I've never seen "Nbr." be used.  The correct abbreviation for number is "No."


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## aprentice

Thanks much edval89


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## idialegre

The abbreviation "No." is used only in front of an actual number, e.g., 

No.5
Paragraph No.7
Husband No. 2

If you are using the word "number" as a regular noun, it cannot be abbreviated.

The number of projects...
A large number of problems...


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## aprentice

Idialegre, Then Ican not be write:

_No. of projects,  No. of problems_,  etc?? :O


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## tomandjerryfan

Yes you can, depending on the type of document. I wouldn't suggest you use abbreviations in formal writings, but in tables, graphs, etc., abbreviations are acceptable.


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## aprentice

ok, thanks to you all, I got now the idea.


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## Lalina_07

Has anyone ever seen it abbreviated this way  
"*Nbr.*"?
Thanks!


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## anothersmith

Lalina_07 said:


> Has anyone ever seen it abbreviated this way
> "*Nbr.*"?
> Thanks!



No, not until I read this post!


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## GreenWhiteBlue

panjandrum said:


> Hello and welcome, Fede F
> 
> You will find that different countries, and indeed different organisations, have different abbreviations.
> 
> No
> No.
> no
> no.
> ... are commonly used - based on the Latin _numero_ (from _numerus_, number).
> 
> In AE, # is often used and so is often found in places where AE-speak is understood. Members here would refer to post #23 for example.


 
Panjandrum, does that mean that "#" is not a common symbol for number in the British isles?  (and yes, "No. 5"  would be readily understood to mean "Number 5" in the US)


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## JeffJo

I have seen both "Nbr." and "Nr." used, both only very rarely.


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## panjandrum

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Panjandrum, does that mean that "#" is not a common symbol for number in the British isles?  (and yes, "No. 5"  would be readily understood to mean "Number 5" in the US)


In many UK contexts #, meaning number, would have to be explained.  Those of us more exposed to US culture - either comic strips or IT manuals - have come to understand the US #, and it also seems to pass without comment in this forum.


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## prinjon

panjandrum said:


> In many UK contexts #, meaning number, would have to be explained. Those of us more exposed to US culture - either comic strips or IT manuals - have come to understand the US #, and it also seems to pass without comment in this forum.


 
Maybe because at least In Europe but I assume it is the case worldwide now that you use the # symbol when you have to enter a number on your mobile. Thus no doubt now everyone knows it means naturally number.

But only official abbreviation is no. (from Latin).  <Moderator note: References to abbreviations in languages other than English have been removed.  This English Only forum deals only with English usage.>


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## natkretep

JeffJo said:


> I have seen both "Nbr." and "Nr." used, both only very rarely.


 
Yes, 'Nbr' or 'Nr' would just look 'foreign' (German, etc.).

N° would also be understood, but would also look 'foreign' (French, etc.).


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## panjandrum

prinjon said:


> Maybe because at least In Europe but I assume it is the case worldwide now that you use the # symbol when you have to enter a number on your mobile. Thus no doubt now everyone knows it means naturally number.


The regular use of # for number in some BE contexts long precedes the introduction of mobile phones/ cell phones.
It's rather an aside, but I never use the # key for this purpose on my phone.





> But only official abbreviation is no. (from Latin). Others are just pure shortcuts, even though in Europe you see Nbr. or Nr. quite often I think (In French, we would still write Nbre for instance!)


There is no single official abbreviation.  There are various conventions/standards.


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## Ann O'Rack

If you listen to automated instructions telling phone users what button to press you will often hear 'that' key called "the hash key" in the UK or "the pound key" in the US.

I would use "no." as an abbreviation usually, but as Panj says, there isn't a single convention. What I would advise is that, whichever convention you choose to use, you make sure you use it consistently.


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## sdgraham

Ann O'Rack said:


> If you listen to automated instructions telling phone users what button to press you will often hear 'that' key called "the hash key" in the UK or "the pound key" in the US.



One of those little snippets of trivia that you'll probably never need unless setting a wager in a pub is that the "#" is also called an octothorp - name coined by Bell Labs in the U.S. in 1973.


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## CanuckPete

Another thing about the # symbol, in some places it is referred to as 'the number symbol', 'the pound key' (when referencing a telephone key pad), or a 'hash key' (again, when referencing a telephone key pad).

In English Canada, # is far more common; but, N° is understood and seen often because it is preferred in French Canada. 

Is there an alt-key short-cut for typing N°?


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## gls5000

A point that has not been touched upon here is whether the abbreviation "No." should be capitalised:

My tax registration no. is xxx OR
My tax registration No. is xxx

To me the capitalised No. looks messy but some proofreaders seem to insist on it.


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## Kevin Beach

gls5000 said:


> A point that has not been touched upon here is whether the abbreviation "No." should be capitalised:
> 
> My tax registration no. is xxx OR
> My tax registration No. is xxx
> 
> To me the capitalised No. looks messy but some proofreaders seem to insist on it.


The abbreviation is not used in that context. It would have to be "My tax registration *number* is XXXX".


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## gls5000

I'm not sure about that. Obviously it's just lazy and bad style to write, for example, "a no. of people attended", but in set expressions like telephone no., VAT no., serial no., etc. it is indeed used as an abbreviation in some styles (e.g. some legal docs and technical docs). And in those circumstances I would still be interested to hear some opinions about whether one would use "No." or "no." if found in the middle of a sentence.


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## panjandrum

In the situations gls describes I would write No. or no. depending on whether I would write in full Number or number.
... Serial Number ... -> ... Serial No. ...
... registration number ... -> ... registration no. ...


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## puttputt

What is the abbreviation for "numbers"?  For instance, I need to write "U.S. Pat. No. x,xxx,xxx; x,xxx,xxx; x,xxx,xxx".  Should the abbreviation for "Numbers" be "No." or "Nos."?


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## Kevin Beach

puttputt said:


> What is the abbreviation for "numbers"?  For instance, I need to write "U.S. Pat. No. x,xxx,xxx; x,xxx,xxx; x,xxx,xxx".  Should the abbreviation for "Numbers" be "No." or "Nos."?


In BrE we use *Nos*.


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## konung

From wikipedia:



> In many parts of the world, including parts of Europe, Canada, Australia,  and Russia,[_citation needed_] *number  sign* refers instead to the "numero" sign *№*  (Unicode code point U+2116), which is often written simply as *No.*


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## wordharmony

Is there a space between the dot and the number itself?
E.g.
this brand holds the no.1 market position
or
this brand holds the no. 1 market position

Thanks


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## konung

I think it's personal preference, but I wouldn't put a space in between, simply to eliminate any doubt that there is a number missing in between, similar how you wouldn't leave a space between a negative indicator and number : -5 ( as in negative 5).


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## konung

Also to add to this in case you think someone might confuse this for a decimal number, like 0.1  - there is not worry about it, since No. usually means that you are referring to a whole number. As in room No.23. But again I think it's just a personal preference.


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## Stonefeather

In American English, # can stand either for "number" or "pound" (the unit of weight). Most commonly, it is the former meaning that is meant, except when referring to the # key on a telephone. In that case, you will find (at least in the USA) that automated voice menus accessed by telephones will  sometimes direct you to "press the pound key," though here it has nothing to do with weight. (I suspect the name for the key was chosen to avoid the inevitable confusion that "press the number key" would cause.)

Note that when abbreviating [No.], it is usually capitalized, since it is only used with a specific number, as mentioned in an earlier post; also, that the period should not be omitted, even informally (to avoid causing the reader to pause over the ambiguity with the word "no").


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## Nicosito

"N° would also be understood, but would also look 'foreign' (French, etc.)."

Is "N°" actually *incorrect *in English? Does anybody know?

Thanks,

Nicholas.


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## pob14

I've never seen it before, and I wouldn't know what it meant but for this thread.  I don't know if it's _incorrect,_ but it's certainly not universally understood.


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## Fabulist

Unlike those used in some other languages, American keyboards don't include either a superior lower-case "o" (º) or "Nº" together as a single character. I don't think keyboards for other English-speaking countries do either, even though there are some variations from the American keyboard (such as inclusion of "£").

That suggests that "Nº" has never been used in English-speaking countries as an abbreviation for "Number" or anything else. I happen to know how to use an "º" in Windows but many Americans who know more about computers and data processing than I do not know how to do this, and in any case it requires extra keystrokes. It's a lot like inverted question marks and exclamation points (¿¡), which English doesn't use either.

Therefore, whether a particular reader whose native language is English will understand "Nº" to mean "number" is a chancy business. Those with extensive experience with the languages where it _is_ used will recognize it, and some might figure it out from the context, but when writing in English it would be better to employ a more widely understood abbreviation, rather than to insist on one from one's native language.

There seem to be some differences between British and American English in the most common abbrevation for "number," as described earlier in this thread.


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## Nicosito

Hi Pob14 and Fabulist,

Thanks both.

Yes, my UK keyboard doesn't have one either, making º a rare chance to use "insert/symbol" in Word which breaks the tedium a bit! 

I gather from your replies that it is probably correct to replace the exotic "Nº" with a bog-standard "No." in translating texts from other languages. No means no!



Nico.


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## natkretep

Nicosito said:


> Is "N°" actually *incorrect *in English? Does anybody know?


Happy New Year, Nicholas/Nico!

As others have said, it is not common, but I wouldn't say it is incorrect. It might suggest foreignness - or it might suggest old fashion. There was the tradition of raising the last letter of a contraction, as in this sign for Abbey Rd (note the raised, underscored D). I've also seen Nº in this kind of context.


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## Winston Fisher

To me, "No." is most typical.  "Nr." is used by German speaking Dutch.  Additional one not mentioend is "No", which was commonly used on printed forms in the old days for trades.


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## SilviaVirus

_<< ..."N°. on the map." or "No on map."_ ... >>

What is the best phrase in English ?


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## Franco-filly

The standard abbreviation of "number" is "No."
p.s. Welcome to the forum SilviaVirus


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## Beryl from Northallerton

Please clarify the nature of your question, SilviaVirus. 

And of course, Welcome to the Forum!


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## Wordsmyth

Welcome, SilviaVirus. Not to anticipate your clarification, but just a general comment about _No_ vs _N°_. 

As _No_ can easily be confused with the word "no", it's generally best to include the stop: "No." (even these days, when it's acceptable to write many abbreviations without stops). The disadvantage with that is that the stop tends to break the sentence, as the eye may see it initially as a full stop after the word "No".

Personally I prefer _N°_, as it avoids all possible confusion.

Ws


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## Egmont

Is this about a phrase such as "The memorial is shown as No. 5 on the map?" In that case, the number after the abbreviation would clarify that "No" (if one does not use the period, BE stop or full stop) is short for "number," not the word "no." Still, this is a place where the U.S. practice of putting periods after all abbreviations can be helpful. 

I'd consider the form with the little raised "o" to be archaic in English, though it's still used in other languages. I might expect to see it in a nineteenth-century account book in an antique store, but not in anything written in the present century.


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## JustKate

I don't think I've ever so much as seen it - except in one of those antique manuscripts. I guess I could figure out what it meant if it was followed by a number ("_N° 1"_), but it would certainly make me look twice. I would not recommend it.


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## Chasint

I agree that 'No.' is the British abbreviation.  I don't remember ever encountering a situation where it could be confused with the word 'no'. I would always include  '.'

So:  _"No. on map."_


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## natkretep

Mod note: Silvia's thread (post 42 onwards) has been merged with an earlier thread. Please read the earlier posts for more on the abbreviation for 'number'.

Welcome to the Forum, Silvia!


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## Wordsmyth

Wordsmyth said:


> _[...]_ Personally I prefer _N°_, as it avoids all possible confusion. _[...]_


 Judging by the reactions of others, particularly AmE-speakers, it seems that "N°" isn't universally accepted. Perhaps I've been influenced by my exposure to French usage.

I agree with Biffo that you'd be unlikely to confuse "No." with the word "No" once you think about it. But I do occasionally experience a split-second hesitation when reading a sentence with "No.", particularly if there's a space between it and the following number: 
- "He said No. 13 is unlucky".

Apparently I'm not entirely alone in that: 





Stonefeather said:


> _[...]_  also, that the period should not be omitted, even informally (to avoid causing the reader to pause over the ambiguity with the word "no").


However the problem is considerably reduced by omitting the space.
- "He said No.13 is unlucky".

Ws


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## monca2015

I really need a help. To me send a address from Brazil to USA how I can put a abbreviation for number?


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## Wordsmyth

Welcome to the forum, monca.

Can you tell us more clearly what number you're talking about in the address? In my experience the word "number", even in abbreviated form, doesn't usually appear in addresses.

Ws


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## natkretep

Unless you are an old fashioned person like me. I tend to write 'No.' when there are single digit numbers:

No. 7 Burlington Crescent

I agree that it is not necessary and most of the time you will just see '7 Burlington Crescent'.


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## Wordsmyth

That might complicates things for the automatic scanners used in postal sorting offices, nat. I've just asked a friend of mine who works for Royal Mail: he says that it could cause the letter to be rejected and set aside for manual sorting, which could delay its delivery.

I imagine that could also happen in the US, where monca wants to send a letter, so I wouldn't recommend using "No." before the number.

Ws


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## JustKate

The pound sign (#) is often used in addresses in the U.S. to indicate *apartment* numbers, but not street addresses. So we'd write _7 Burlington Crescent_ or _4255 High St._ But if the person was in an apartment located at 4255 High Street, we might write _4255 High St., #5A._ Or we might also avoid the entire problem by abbreviating the word "apartment" instead, e.g., _4255 High St., Apt. 5A_.


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## Wordsmyth

In BrE the pound sign is the currency symbol £, (not used in addresses, of course ). The symbol # is a hatch (unfortunately usually known by the corrupted form "hash", which is actually a dish of cooked meat and potatoes!) — and is also not used in addresses. If someone lived in Flat 5A, we'd write "Flat 5A" (or possibly, in some really posh residence in Park Lane, "Apt 5A").

Not that that's relevant to your immediate needs, monca, but it might be good to know if you ever want to send a letter to the UK. I'd still be interested to know exactly what number you need to write.

Ws


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## JustKate

We're talking about different kinds of "pounds," WS.  The "hash" mark is sometimes called "the pound sign" in the US because we use it to indicate the weight sort of pounds, e.g., "5# of apples." This is actually fairly rare now, at least in my experience (though it is sometimes still used where brevity is important), but that's where the name "pound sign" comes from. We indicate the British unit of money the same way you do.

But # is still commonly used to indicate various numbers, including apartment numbers. But never street addresses, at least not in my experience.


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## monca2015

In my case a need put my address in a English Form but my address is from Brazil and I don't know if I wrote number 655 or No. 655


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## JustKate

If it's your *street* address, you can do it like this:
_Monca LastName
655 Whatever St.
City, Province, postal code, etc._

You don't need to use "No." or "Number" or anything.

If it's an *apartment* number, there are lots of options, including _#655, No. 655 or Apt. 655_.


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## monca2015

Oh, ok. Thanks.


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## Wordsmyth

.
Monca, if it's your own Brazilian address you're writing on a form, I'd suggest you write it exactly as you would in Brazil. After all, if your contact writes back to you it'll be a Brazilian postman delivering it.


JustKate said:


> We're talking about different kinds of "pounds," WS. _ [...]_


 I know. I was just being mildly flippant. But I'm sure your excellent explanation will be useful to other readers, Kate.

Ws


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## Egmont

monca2015 said:


> In my case a need put my address in a English Form but my address is from Brazil and I don't know if I wrote number 655 or No. 655


Mail to addresses in Brazil is delivered by the Brazilian post office. Everything that happens after international mail arrives in Rio or Sao Paolo is done by Brazilians who read Portuguese. Give the address the way the Brazilian postal service wants to see it. People in other countries should just add "Brazil" (or its equivalent in their language) at the end.

_Cross-posted._


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## monca2015

And when my street is a number and not a name. I put:

655 12 St.
_City, Province, postal code, etc ?

_​And the name of my city and province need be in english or can be portuguese? 665 is my house number.


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## Egmont

monca2015 said:


> And when my street is a number and not a name. I put:
> 
> 655 12 St._._.



But if this is an address in Brazil, would you not write: "Av. [or R.] 12, 655?"


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## monca2015

Egmont I need send my address in a english Free Entry Form, the company is in Los Angeles and I am from Brazil. Teh people who go recive this form are english not portuguese so I really want know if I put in this Free Entry Form the name of my city and estate in english or not. Somebody can help?


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## Wordsmyth

I'm not certain what you mean by a Free Entry Form, but I'm guessing it might be the US Customs "Declaration for Free Entry of Unaccompanied Articles".

In any case, the only use the US authorities can make of your address is to contact you or to make enquiries about you. In either case your address would end up being read by some Portuguese-speaking person in Brazil. So your address should appear as you would use it in Brazil. If it contains the word "número" (or its abbreviation), then keep it in Portuguese. If it doesn't, then don't add it in English. 

The only exception would be to put the country name as it's spelt in the language of the receiving country. If my address were in Germany, I'd put "Germany" on that form, not "Deutschland". So normally you would put "Brazil" (but if you did put "Brasil" I'm sure it would be accepted).

As for your city and state, I'm not aware of any Brazilian cities or states that have different names in English. (Are there any?) You certainly don't want to invent translations: Rio de Janeiro wouldn't be River of January! São Paulo, Espirito Santo and Mato Grosso wouldn't be Saint Paul, Holy Spirit and Thick Woods! 

Ws


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## monca2015

I go send the link to free form I am talk about. It's not for brazilian people, it is for english people. Click in the link, please.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/563x629q90/673/R5TT83.png


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## Cagey

The 'Free Entry Form' is a form that allows you to enter a contest without paying (for free).

I would write the address as it should be written to be delivered by the post office in Brazil.  Its purpose is to enable them to send you mail.  They will copy whatever you have onto the package or letter if they have a reason to send something to you.  If you use the English form, you may create problems for the people in Brazil who have to deliver the mail.


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## monca2015

Thanks Cagey.


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## Wordsmyth

As you see, monca, context is important! It saves us having to guess at what you're really asking about.

As it turns out, the advice everyone has given over the last 15 or so posts was appropriate anyway.

Ws


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## PlaneCrazy

In English, "*nu*mber" is abbreviated as *No.*

In Afrikaans, "*no*mmer" is abbreviated as *Nr.

*Strange...


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## Thel

Hi everybody!

And yet another question on the "number" abbreviation theme...

I'm translating lines of code (don't ask) and the original sentence is:

*Number of residents*

The coded sentence would need to be something like:

*no_resdts*

As you can see, this can be easily misinterpreted as "No residents"! Including "of" would make the code too long, so unfortunately this is not an option. I was thinking about just leaving *n_resdts* and writing a note in the glossary. What do you reckon?

Thanks in advance!


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## PlaneCrazy

N_res. 

How about that?

Or Pop, for "population"

In engineering, N is usually indicative of a dimensionless quantity.


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## Wordsmyth

I guess you're limited to 8 characters, Thel. 

Your *n_resdts* seems OK to me if the people reading the code have a background in maths &/or the sciences, where *n* is commonly used to represent a variable number.

Otherwise, *nmbr_res *or *nbr_resi* might work. Whatever you choose, it would seem wise to define it in the glossary or in user notes.

Ws


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## PaulQ

The *dts *seems redundant to me. If it has to be written as a single string, then *no-res* would seem OK.


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## roxcyn

Would #res or #_res work?  # for number and "res" for residents.


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## Thel

First off, many thanks for your replies!
I think I'll stick with n_resdts, then. I cannot use #, and "res" is already reserved. Thankfully it's not an 8-character limit (as WS helpfully pointed out, it might have been the case), so no problems there. "Pop" does not fit the context (it's "residents in a household").

It is the actual code to be used in the application by programmers. I'll definitely add an entry in the glossary I'm compiling for their use, though.

Again, thanks for your help!


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## Wordsmyth

_I wrote the following before seeing Thel's latest post, so it's a bit redundant now that we know # can't be used anyway. But I thought I'd post it anyway, as future reference for other readers. 
_
# might be OK in an American-influenced environment, roxcyn, but it's not widely known everywhere in the world. Even in US usage, I've generally seen it used to itemise (#1, #2, ...), rather than to mean 'number' as in quantity. There's also the risk that it might be read as some kind of operator in a program coding context. 

Ws


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## Green Linnet

Is anyone aware of any difference in usage when it comes to a heading on a column in a statistical table referring to the number of individuals (or whatever) in a particular category? Should it always be spelled out, to avoid confusion with ordinal numbers (as, for example, in a hit parade: No. 1, No. 2 etc.)? Or is there any other abbreviation that can be used to avoid any such confusion? Or is the problem an imaginary one (as context would usually make it clear what sense of the word "number" is being used)?


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## ewie

I imagine that context would always tell you what was meant, Linnet.
E.g. in this table





it's all the stuff that goes with the table that tells you the numbers don't refer to chickens, eggs, nuclear missiles, or anything else


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## natkretep

In statistics, we also have different abbreviations symbols. We write things like _N_=50 or _n_=50 to mean there are 50 observations, subjects etc. and Σ=50. I can imagine a table where you have _n_ or Σ heading a column.


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