# וַיֹּסֶף - Job 29 1



## bazq

Hi everybody,

I've been having difficulties analyzing this form and I was hoping you could help me.
I know that despite its similarity to hif'il, the root used to conjugate in Qal, thus יסף (yasaf(a)).
Since the verb is an action I would say the reconstruction should be: *yawsif(u) -- *yosif(u) -- yosef in accordance with Qal imperfect /i/ theme vowel. Why has the tsere become a segol?

Thanks.


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## Drink

I think this is Qal of אסף, with the א unwritten.


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## origumi

נראה שזה אכן בניין קל. אגב, המילה חוזרת הרבה: חיפוש בתנך - ויסף.

ויקימילון לא סגור על עצמו אם צורת יחיד-עתיד-זכר כזו קיימת בבניין קל - השווה את הדף קטגוריה:יסף (שורש) - ויקימילון לדף יסף (שורש) - ויקימילון. אני מניח שהוא סתם מבולבל.

בבניין הפעיל המילה מופיעה (גם? רק?) בחיריק: חיפוש בתנך - ויוסיף.

בלשון עבר (בניכוי וו ההיפוך) יש במקרא כמה וְיָסַף (קל) אבל אין (או יש בקושי) והוסף / והוסיף (הפעיל). לכן נראה שהמקרא העדיף כאן את בניין קל באופן עקבי.

למה סגול ולא צירה? "שפה עברית" מסביר: ו' העתיד מושכת אליה אחורה את ההטעמה והיא נסוגה ממלרע למלעיל. אם בהברה האחרונה של המילה יש תנועה גדולה, שאינה יכולה לבוא בלי הטעמה, היא תהפוך לתנועה קטנה: יָמֹד ← וַיָּמָד, תָּשֹב ← וַתָּשָב, יְגָרֵש ← וַיְגָרֶשׁ.  השפה העברית - ו' ההיפוך. זה תקף מן הסתם גם לענייננו.


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## bazq

נכון! שכחתי לחלוטין מהטעם בצורות העתיד בוי"ו ההיפוך
צריך לקרוא שוב את הפרק בבלאו

תודה רבה 

Drink, thank you, but יסף is more logical than אסף in this context "and Job continued (added to) his speech..."

Thank you both.


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## utopia

As much as I know, the conjugation of verbs in paal, whose initial consonant is yod, doesn't end in hirek, and don't have yaw>yo sound change.

YASHAV - YESHEV

YAGA'- YIGA'

YARE'-YIRA'

YARAD-YERED

YARAH-YIREH

YASHAN-YISHAN


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## Drink

bazq said:


> Why has the tsere become a segol?



This is a fairly regular thing with the vav-consecutive: since the penultimate syllable is open, it accepts the stress shift backwards, and the ultimate syllable is reduced to a short vowel since it is not longer stressed.


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## origumi

utopia said:


> As much as I know, the conjugation of verbs in paal, whose initial consonant is yod, doesn't end in hirek, and don't have yaw>yo sound change.


Brown-Driver-Briggs for יסף (H3254) have examples of qal with "o", e.g. "yosif", "yosef".
Nevertheless, with all the examples they bring, it's not clear to me whether ויסף (of this thread) is qal or hif`il.


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## bazq

Drink said:


> This is a fairly regular thing with the vav-consecutive: since the penultimate syllable is open, it accepts the stress shift backwards, and the ultimate syllable is reduced to a short vowel since it is not longer stressed.



Yes! thanks you, origumi mentioned this in his post. I totally forgot about the stress in the presence of waw.

utopia - You've mixed several verbs which stem from different patterns (some are actions, some are stative).
action verbs like yasafa can stem from:
qatala - yaqtul (כתב - יכתוב ). 
qatala - yaqtil (יסף יוסיף, ישב ישב, the waw is preserved in ysf, but lost in Qal in yshb, originally wthb).
qatala - yiqtal (למד - ילמד).

At least that's what I've learned (or rather that's how I understood what I've learned).


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## utopia

Is ysf the only verb stem in which Y changes to O?

Yosif, vayosef... don't look formally as paal, but rather hifil.


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## Drink

utopia said:


> Yosif, vayosef... don't look formally as paal, but rather hifil.



Since the root is actually ו-ס-ף, if the vav is not treated as a "weak" letter, then יוֹסֵף or יוֹסַף and וַיּוֹסֶף or וַיּוֹסַף are the expected forms. But most verb roots that start with vav are treated as weak and the vav is dropped entirely, which would give יֵסֵף and וַיֵּסֶף.


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## hadronic

יוסיף can't possibly be Qal. Not even talking of the aw>o change that doesn't take place in this binyan, the long i between second and third root seems very un-qal-ly


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## utopia

Actually I found in the bible concordance that יוסיף, יוסִף, are both a participle of qal.

There is also יוסיף that is hifil.

וַיּוֹסֶף  is under hifil, BTW.


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## hadronic

_Participle_יוֺסִף (read יוֺסֵף) Isaiah 29:14; Isaiah 38:5, 
(Köi. 403 addsEcclesiastes 1:18יוֺסִיף, from form and connection less likely); 

Participle, it's possible. But imperfect, no way.


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## bazq

So you're suggesting that the root is conjugated in Qal in perfect, it has a participle form in Qal, but in the imperfect it's in hif'il?


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## hadronic

I'm not suggesting that directly. I'm just saying that _yasaf / yosef _is straightforwardly Qal perfect and participle, that _yosîf / vayyosef_ is hif'il imperfect beyond doubt and can't possibly be Qal, and that the expected form of Qal imperfect _should_ be _yesef_, which I never came across.

Now, as you say, this data suggests that _yasaf_ is defective and doesn't actually exist in the imperfect, and is substituted by the hif'il stem for this tense. To be verified. I'll check on what Gesenius says.


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## bazq

It doesn't suggest that yasafa doesn't exist in the imperfect, only that it wound up too similar to hif'il imperfect, and was reanalyzed as a hif'il verb, leading to the creation of the forms "הוסיף" "מוסיף".


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## hadronic

What course of history could have brought _yasaf_'s imperfect to look like and be reanalyzed as a hif'il _yôsîf_? No other Qal verb ends in -_i_- or worse, in -_î-_. Stressed short -_i_- always becomes -_e_- (tsere), including in the benoni (Arabic _kâtib_ > _kôtev_).


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## bazq

As I said, the root /wsf/ was conjugated in Qal with the imperfect pattern /yaqtil(u)/ (like wthb - ythb: yayshib --> yaysheb --> yesheb). The waw was preserved in /wsf/, giving rise to /yawsif(u)/.
It became yosef by aw>o and i>e. This was the case, with yasafa in the perfect and yawsifu/yosef in the imperfect.
This imperfect Qal was identical to the hif'il jussive and only slightly different from the hif'il indicative yosif, and that's when the "mix up" occured, and this form was reanalyzed as hif'il.

yasaf remained the regular perfect form and appears everywhere, hosif is very rare and is probably a result of the process.
Hif'il yosif took over the imperfect form, but you can still find the Qal yosef such as the one above.

Edit: Oh, and of course the form without וי"ו ההיפוך has a tsere, not a seghol. As mentioned by Origumi, the tsere became a seghol due to stress.

If you're interested, you can read about in Jouon & Moraoka (75.f , pages 193-194).


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## hadronic

I understand. In a way, these two views are not contradictory : יסף ends up being defective, and no Qal ever has a first vowel in -ô- 
Joüon's stance is an attempt to explain why the defectiveness  came into being. Gesenius doesn't appear the follow the same path. The few attested יוסף / תוסף / אוסף forms (with holam male or haser, and tsere) is analyzed by Gesenius has already hif'il jussive (_including_ after לא) or cohortative, or scribal / Massorete errors for hif'il imperfect (where יוסיף should be restored).


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