# schuld/ schuldig



## min300

Hallo,

I want to say' I am guilty for that'.
Wheches ist richtig?

1. Ich bin schuld daran.
2. Ich habe schuld daran.
3. Ich bin schuldig daran.

I would be glad to know any other options. 

Danke im voraus


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## gaer

min300 said:


> Hallo,
> 
> I want to say' I am guilty for that'.
> Wheches ist richtig?
> 
> 1. Ich bin schuld daran.
> 2. Ich habe schuld daran.
> 3. Ich bin schuldig daran.
> 
> I would be glad to know any other options.
> 
> Danke im voraus


Perhaps:

Ich bin schuldig dafür.
I'm guilty for that.

Ich fühle mich schuldig dafür.
I feel guilty for that.

These are "NON-native" suggestions, so they may be wrong. Please wait for more information! 

Gaer


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## Aurin

min300 said:


> Hallo,
> 
> I want to say' I am guilty for that'.
> Welches ist richtig?
> 
> 1. Ich bin schuld daran.
> 2. Ich habe Schuld daran.
> 3. Ich bin schuldig daran.
> 
> I would be glad to know any other options.
> 
> Danke im voraus


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## min300

Thank you gaer for your comment.

Danke schone Aurin.


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## Aurin

min300 said:


> Danke schön.


 
 Gern geschehen!

I suppose that "schone" was a typo, that you wanted to write: schoen because you don´t have this wunderful "ö"


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## gaer

Aurin,

I can't reply to your message because you made your correctsion ins quotes and added no text. This causes your text to disappear when I try to answer.

The question was, as I understood it:



> I would be glad to know any other options.


I have no idea if my suggestions were wrong. I realize the examples given were correct. 

Gaer


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## Aurin

gaer said:


> Perhaps:
> 
> Ich bin schuldig daran.
> I'm guilty for that.
> 
> Ich fühle mich schuldig daran.
> I feel guilty for that.
> 
> These are "NON-native" suggestions, so they may be wrong. Please wait for more information!
> 
> Gaer


 
Sich an etwas schuldig fühlen ist ein sehr guter Vorschlag. Die Präposition muss aber auf jeden Fall "an" sein.
Besser (und das wäre immerhin ein Vorschlag, ich hatte suggestions tatsächlich überlesen):
Ich bin daran schuldig.
Ich bin daran schuld.
Ich fühle mich daran schuldig.
Ich habe daran Schuld.


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## gaer

Aurin said:


> Sich an etwas schuldig fühlen ist ein sehr guter Vorschlag. Die Präposition muss aber auf jeden Fall "an" sein.
> Besser (und das wäre immerhin ein Vorschlag, ich hatte suggestions tatsächlich überlesen):
> Ich bin daran schuldig.
> Ich bin daran schuld.
> Ich fühle mich daran schuldig.
> Ich habe daran Schuld.


Thank you. I was not sure if "dafür" is also vaild, and this is the kind of sentence that has me confused:

_Die Kinder sahen und hörten Dinge, die für ihr junges Gemüt verderblich waren und sie fühlte sich schuldig dafür. _

_John fühlte sich schuldig dafür, denn er verlor eine Menge Geld bei dem Projekt._

There may also be a problem with "being guilty of something" and "being guilty for doing something".

"Guilty for" may be informal or even correct. I need to check that. 

Gaer


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## min300

Aurin said:


> Gern geschehen!
> 
> I suppose that "schone" was a typo, that you wanted to write: schoen because you don´t have this wunderful "ö"



Yes. it was a typo. Thank you for mentioning it.


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## Aurin

More options:
Ich bin dessen schuldig.
Ich fühle mich dessen schuldig.
Ich bekenne mich dessen schuldig.
Ich habe mich dessen schuldig gemacht.
"dessen" ist hier das Pronomen für die Sache, wegen der du dich schuldig fühlst: des Verbrechens, des Verrats, des Mordes...


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## Hutschi

Ich trage daran die Schuld. (weitere Möglichkeit)


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## Robocop

The inital question was, what is equivalent to "I am guilty for that"  in German?

Frage: Wer *ist *schuld (schuldig) an diesem Durcheinander? (who is to blame for ...)
Antwort:
Ich bin schuld / Ich bin schuld daran.
Ich bin daran schuld.
 Ich bin schuldig daran.
Ich bin schuldig dafür.
Ich bin daran schuldig.
Ich bin dessen schuldig.
Ich fühle mich daran schuldig.
Ich fühle mich schuldig dafür.
Ich fühle mich dessen schuldig.
Ich bekenne mich dessen schuldig.
Ich trage daran die Schuld.

Frage: Wer *hat *Schuld an diesem Durcheinander? (who is to blame for ...)
Antwort:
Ich habe Schuld / Ich habe Schuld daran.
Ich habe daran Schuld.
 Ich habe mich dessen schuldig gemacht.

I do not think "*schuldig sein* an etwas" is commonly used by careful native speakers.
However, as Aurin mentioned, we have "schuldig sein eines Verbrechens, des Verrats, des Mordes, der Täuschung, ..."


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## Hutschi

Hi, I am not so sure, that the other translations are wrong. Translation is not everytimes word by word, and it may depend on the style. The question was also:





> "I would be glad to know any other options. "


 
May be I do not fully understand the English. But "Ich bin Schuld. /ich bin schuld daran/ Ich bin daran schuld./Ich trage daran die Schuld. Ich bin dessen schuldig. - all these have the same meaning, basically. 

Ich fühle mich dessen schuldig. - There is a connotation, that I might not be guilty, I only think that I'm guilty. I feel guilty. Is this meaning included in the original sentence  _'I am guilty for that'_? Can it be the meaning in some context?

An additional question for the usage in English:
Is "I am guilty for that" used in context of law, or is it used also outside?

In German, a meaning could be: "Ja, ich war das." (Ja, ich war's") - something like: "yes, I was it." 


"Ich bin dessen schuldig." (and the derivations) - I cannot see, why this is wrong.



> Frage: Wer *ist *schuld (schuldig) an diesem Durcheinander?


 
"Ich", "Ich bin das." / "Ich bin schuld." / "Ja, ich trage die Schuld daran." ...


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## gaer

Hutschi said:


> Ich fühle mich dessen schuldig. - There is a connotation, that I might not be guilty, I only think that I'm guilty. I feel guilty. Is this meaning included in the original sentence _'I am guilty for that'_? Can it be the meaning in some context?
> 
> An additional question for the usage in English:
> Is "I am guilty for that" used in context of law, or is it used also outside?


I'm not sure that "I am guilty FOR that is correct". This is why I wanted the opinion of another native.

For instance, "You should feel guilty for that," really means: "You should feel guilty for doing that."

"I should be feel guilty for doing that," I believe, is correct.

But there it is "should feel ____ for ____ing something".

For now, please think of "I am guilty OF [doing] that". That means, "I did it. I am guilty."

As you can see, I really need help, Hutschi.

Gaer


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## Robocop

Hutschi said:


> Hi, I am not so sure, that the other translations are wrong.


 
I don't say that they are all wrong per se. However, I just *assume* that an answer like "I am guilty for/of ..." is preceded by a question such as "who is to blame for ...?". This exact context I tried to transfer into a German example of question and answer.
What I am saying now is that if I was asked either question below, I would answer in the indicated manner. The answers that I have deleted in my previous post *would not fit* *here* in my opinion! And I would clearly not use "schuldig" in *this* context.

Wer *ist *schuld (schuldig) an diesem Durcheinander?
Ich / Ich bin schuld / Ich bin schuld daran. / Ich bin daran schuld.

Wer *hat *Schuld an diesem Durcheinander?
Ich / Ich habe Schuld / Ich habe Schuld daran. / Ich habe daran Schuld.


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## Hutschi

I agree.


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## Acrolect

I was just wondering whether _schuldig_ plus genitive primarily collocates with crimes, offences or some other form of misdoing, while _schuld an_ collocates with the (negative) outcome of some action.

_Ich bin schuld an dem Dilemma
???ich bin eines Dilemmas schuldig

Ich bin des Mordes schuldig
Ich bin schuld an dem Mord

_The last sentence is OK grammatically, but I do not believe it actually means (or necessarily means) that the person has committed the murder, but rather that she has done something that has led to the crime.


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## Robocop

Acrolect said:


> I was just wondering whether _schuldig_ plus genitive primarily collocates with crimes, offences or some other form of misdoing, while _schuld an_ collocates with the (negative) outcome of some action.
> 
> _Ich bin schuld an dem Dilemma_
> _???ich bin eines Dilemmas schuldig_
> 
> _Ich bin des Mordes schuldig_
> _Ich bin schuld an dem Mord_


 
_Ich bin schuld an dem Dilemma._
_???ich bin eines Dilemmas schuldig._

Let me explain with yet another example:
*Er ist schuldig des Mordes an seinen Eltern.* (meaning he is the murderer)
*Er ist schuld/er hat Schuld am Mord an seinen Eltern.* (he did not kill his parents but was involved somehow).
*Er fühlt sich schuldig wegen des Mordes an seinen Eltern.* (he did not kill them and was not necessarily involved but, for example, feels he could have done something to prevent it)


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## gaer

Robocop said:


> _Ich bin schuld an dem Dilemma._
> _???ich bin eines Dilemmas schuldig._


My understanding of your sentences here seems to be the same as what you have explained:

*Er ist schuldig des Mordes an seinen Eltern.* (meaning he is the murderer)
He is guilty of the murder of his parents. (He murdered them.)

*Er ist schuld/er hat Schuld am Mord an seinen Eltern.* 
He was involved in the murder of his parents. (I can't think of a more direct way to put it in English. Perhaps "*culpable*
".)

*Er fühlt sich schuldig wegen des Mordes an seinen Eltern.* 

He felt guilty regarding (in regard to) the murder of his parents. (Pehaps he could have done something to stop it, perhaps he only thinks he could have but in fact could have done nothing.)

Gaer


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## Robocop

gaer said:


> My understanding of your sentences here seems to be the same as what you have explained: ...
> Gaer



*Correct*! Just one remark: Regarding the second case, the involvement could consist, for example, in his creating the situation that led to the murder of his parents at the hands of others, which means that he has some responsibility in the murder by providing the cause.


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## gaer

Robocop said:


> *Correct*! Just one remark: Regarding the second case, the involvement could consist, for example, in his creating the situation that led to the murder of his parents at the hands of others, which means that he has some responsibility in the murder by providing the cause.


I'm no lawyer, but I believe that is covered under the word "culpable". Regardless, I was thinking that. 

Gaer


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## Robocop

gaer said:


> I'm no lawyer, but I believe that is covered under the word "culpable". Regardless, I was thinking that.
> 
> Gaer



I was thinking in a different direction: In the example given, you could imagine that providing the cause (for the murder at the hands of others) is done without intention and/or without knowing what will result from it. In this respect, we would speak of a moral not legal guilt.


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## Arrius

*There may also be a problem with "being guilty of something" and "being guilty for doing something".
"Guilty for" may be informal or even correct. I need to check that*. 
(*Gaer*)

_Guilty of_ is followed by the name of the offence whether legal or moral.
_Guilty for_ is followed by the _reason you feel guilty_ or are considered by others to be guilty. The words of an old song may make this clearer (or possibly create more confusion): "Is it is sin, is it a crime, loving you so like I do? If it's a crime, then I'm guilty: guilty *for* loving you", (i.e. guilty _*because*_ I love you).


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## gaer

Arrius said:


> *There may also be a problem with "being guilty of something" and "being guilty for doing something".*
> *"Guilty for" may be informal or even correct. I need to check that*.
> (*Gaer*)
> 
> _Guilty of_ is followed by the name of the offence whether legal or moral.
> _Guilty for_ is followed by the _reason you feel guilty_ or are considered by others to be guilty. The words of an old song may make this clearer (or possibly create more confusion): "Is it is sin, is it a crime, loving you so like I do? If it's a crime, then I'm guilty: guilty *for* loving you", (i.e. guilty _*because*_ I love you).


Thank you!

I was having a "brain-burp". I know that you can "plead guilty for" something. But could you "be guilty for something"?

I thought it might be slang, but I've found enough hits linked to reliable sources to conclude that it's acceptable. 

Gaer


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