# to aspirate / breathe



## ThomasK

Would you have a 'respiratory' parallel for longing (noun or verb --- aspiring for)? 

It took me a while to find it in Dutch: *zucht *(*naar*). Zuchten is related with sighing, but can as a noun be used to refer to a "maniacal" aspiration (anorexia = _magerzucht, _alcoholism _= drankzucht, etc._).
_
(The background was my search for primary syntacticosemantic relations, such as the need for food and water (hunger and thirst)... I then guessed the need for breath/ air was equally important. But I could not think of a word that referred to that and could be used metaphorically - until... _zucht _!)_


----------



## Encolpius

ThomasK said:


> Would you have a 'respiratory' parallel for longing (noun or verb --- aspiring for)?...



Yes, in Hungarian. ó*h*aj [noun], ó*h*ajt [verb]


----------



## ThomasK

Is it a very common one, and does it have some connotation? Is it the standard word for a wish?


----------



## Encolpius

The standard verb would be rather kíván, but óhajt is also a common verb. No connotation.


----------



## bibax

Czech:

Besides other verbs we have *dychtiti* (from dech = breath, dýchati = to breathe). It means to pant (= to long for sth eagerly), to yearn for/after sth, to be desirous of sth.

"Ústa svá otvírám a *dychtím*, nebo přikázaní tvých jsem žádostiv."  = _I open my mouth and *pant*, because I long for your commandments. (Psalm 119:131)_

There is also *vzdychati* = to be sighing; *vzdychati po* = to be sighing for sb/sth.
"Vzdychá po něm dnem i nocí." = _She is sighing for him day and night._

Both verbs are commonly used but they are not neutral.


----------



## apmoy70

Hi TK, 

*Aspiring* in Greek, is described by the adj. *«επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο» [e'piðoksos] (masc.), [e'piðoksi] (fem.), [e'piðokso] (neut.)* < Classical adj. *«ἐπίδοξος, -ος, -ον» ĕpídŏksŏs (masc. & fem.), ĕpídŏksŏn (neut.)* --> _of persons, likely/expected to turn out well, become glorious_ < compound, prefix and preposition *«ἐπὶ» ĕpì* --> _upon, on, over, above_ (PIE *h₁epi/*h₁opi, _near, at, against_) + fem. noun *«δόξα» dóksă* --> _expectation, opinion, judgement_, later, _splendour, glory_; the secondary meanings, since the translation of the Hebrew scripture by the LXX into Hellenistic Greek; the 72 scholars, used *«δόξα» dóksă* 450 times, translating 25 different Hebrew words, the majority of these occurrences corresponds to the Hebrew word * כבוד kavōdh* (honour, splendor, power, glory). PIE *dek-, _to take, accept, receive_; cf Skt. दासति (dAsati), _to give_; Lat. docēre, _to teach, tell, inform_. 
*Aspiration* is:
*1/ «Επιδίωξη» [epi'ði.oksi] (fem.)* --> _aspiration, continued pursuit_ < Class. 3rd declension fem. noun *«ἐπιδίωξις» ĕpĭdíōksis*, cognate with the adj.* «επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο»*.
*2/ «Εισπνοή» [ispno'i] (fem.)* --> _inspiration, inhalation_ < Class. fem. noun *«εἰσπνοὴ» eispnŏḕ* < compound, prefix and preposition *«εἰς» eis* --> _in, into_ + fem. noun *«πνοὴ» pnŏḕ* --> _blowing, blast, breath_ (PIE *pneu-, _to breathe, gasp_ cf Proto-Germanic *fneusanan > Ger. niese, Dutch niezen, Eng. sneeze).
Thus, aspiration (continued pursuit) --> *«επιδίωξη»* *≠* aspiration (inhalation) --> *«εισπνοή»*


----------



## ThomasK

Interesting link Czech-Dutch: sighing and wishing. 

@apmoy: I see, no link indeed, then. Could I say that /edidokson/ has to do with thinking mainly? I just checked on wishing via Babylon translations, and I get: επιθυμώ, εύχομαι. Are those correct? Do they refer to a link? somehow?

The beginning of ps. 45 led me to two more translations: 
- German: _*lechzen *_might imply heavy breathing too...
- English: *to pant *seems to suggest 'to breathe rapidly in short gasps, as after exertion' and 'to long for'...


----------



## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> ...
> 
> @apmoy: I see, no link indeed, then. Could I say that /edidokson/ has to do with thinking mainly? I just checked on wishing via Babylon translations, and I get: επιθυμώ, εύχομαι. Are those correct? Do they refer to a link? somehow?
> 
> ..


Yep, *«δόξα» dóksă* in ancient Greek described mostly the result of the action of the verb *«δοκῶ» dŏkô* --> _to think, suppose, seem_:
*«δοκῶ μοι» dŏkô mœ* --> _I think_
*«δοκεῖ μοι» dŏkeî mœ* --> _it seems to me_ 

In modern Greek, not anymore, it describes just the glory, splendour. In fossilized expressions though, the meaning of thinking, supposing, still pertains, e.g. *«ἔδοξε τῇ βουλῇ καὶ τῷ δήμῳ»* (in modern pronunciation) *['eðokse ti vu'li ce to 'ðimo]* --> _the boule (=parliament, congress) and the people have decided_, *«κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν» [ka'ta to ðo'kun]* --> _(s/he does) whatever s/he decides_.
*«Eπιθυμώ» [epiθi'mo]* and *«εύχομαι» ['efxome]* are not quite synonyms: the first means to desire for something, to long for it; the latter is an expression of wish for a particular outcome.


----------



## ThomasK

I suddenly think /doksa/ might have the same origin as 'think'... Doesn't refer to light too (seem) ? 

Would the _thumos _have anything to do with breathing? I suppose it is a gland only, or is it more ?


----------



## Saluton

The Russian word for 'to aspire' is *стремиться* (stre'mitsa), which originally means 'to flow quickly (in a certain direction)' and is clearly connected with the word *stream*. The phonetic term 'aspiration' is a borrowing - *аспирация* (aspi'ratsiya).

There is the verb *воздыхать* (vozdy'khat) - 'to sigh' (for sb./sth.; used ironically), similar to the Czech *vzdychati*.


----------



## ThomasK

Very interesting! But then: the streaming does not remind of breathing, more of water, I suppose...


----------



## Saluton

Well, I never said it does


----------



## ThomasK

Don't misunderstand: I just wanted to check whether there could be a link between breath and this form of streaming, that's why...


----------



## Maroseika

Saluton said:


> The Russian word for 'to aspire' is *стремиться* (stre'mitsa), which originally means 'to flow quickly (in a certain direction)' and is clearly connected with the word *stream*.



Strange enough it may seem, these words are unrelated:

Stream < PIE *sreu - flow.
Стремиться < стремить < Proto-Slavic *strьmъ (steep < to stick out), i.e. originally стремиться - to crash down from a height, which developed from the sense "to stick out, to tower above). No connection with flowing. 

Curiosely, English cognates of this Russian word are connected with stability rather than with swift movements: to stare.


----------



## ThomasK

The different meanings based on one root do look quite intriguing: towering, fallng down and staring... But starting from a PIE root meaning 'strong, rigid', etc., it might make sense --- though the falling still seems strange... At etymonline, I discoverd that _starve, stere, stern, stark, strut _and _torpor _are all based on it... Quite amazing, quite interesting, thanks.


----------



## fdb

Latin _aspīrāre_ has both meanings: the etymological meaning “breath towards” (_ad+spīrāre_), and the metaphorical “strive for”. The Romance languages inherited both meanings from Latin, and English has this word (with its two meanings) from French.


----------



## origumi

Similarly Hebrew שאף sh-'-f. It means both _inhale_ and _aspire_.


----------



## ThomasK

That is another confirmation then. I am still a little amazed that it is so common, but it seems understandable...


----------



## Saluton

Maroseika said:


> Strange enough it may seem, these words are unrelated:
> 
> Stream < PIE *sreu - flow.
> Стремиться < стремить < Proto-Slavic *strьmъ (steep < to stick out), i.e. originally стремиться - to crash down from a height, which developed from the sense "to stick out, to tower above). No connection with flowing.
> 
> Curiosely, English cognates of this Russian word are connected with stability rather than with swift movements: to stare.


I don't believe it. The root is very widespread in both Germanic and Slavic languages, so it could have easily 'flown' from one group to the other. It might be that scholars just haven't coordinated their efforts well enough.


----------



## Maroseika

Saluton said:


> I don't believe it. The root is very widespread in both Germanic and Slavic languages, so it could have easily 'flown' from one group to the other. It might be that scholars just haven't coordinated their efforts well enough.



I dare say it's not an object of belief, but of knowledge. Look Vasmer and Chernykh, this version is richly illustrated there with various examples. If your doubts are still with you, we can discuss them here in the new thread.


----------



## ThomasK

I suddenly come across a link with English: "panting with desire" at etymonline.com.


----------



## arielipi

in hebrew we have that very much!
להתנשף
lehitnashef is both to pant and to gasp.


----------



## ThomasK

But also with desire ??? 'cause that is the essence of the question here: the link between breathing/ sighing and wishing/ longing...


----------



## arielipi

Not directly im afraid, no; but it comes along often when it bears the gasping meaning


----------



## ThomasK

arielipi said:


> Not directly im afraid, no; but it comes along often when it bears the gasping meaning



I notice that _snappen_, Dutch for 'to grab', means 'to gasp' originally. So here again there is a link between something practical and breathing. I am surprised...

Hartelijk,
JanG


----------



## berndf

ThomasK said:


> I notice that _snappen_, Dutch for 'to grab', means 'to gasp' originally. So here again there is a link between something practical and breathing. I am surprised...
> 
> Hartelijk,
> JanG


That is also a derived meaning; the original meaning is_ to snap _(=_make a sudden bite_): _Nach Luft schnappen = to gasp_, literally:_ to snap for air_; in analogy to an animal that snaps for prey.


----------



## ThomasK

Is it really? Ah, but then it becomes more logical, I'd say...


----------



## AutumnOwl

Swedish have both _att sukta efter något _and _att snappa (efter luft)_. _Sukta_ comes from the German suchten/süchten - to breath heavily, and _att sukta efter något_ means to desire something. _Att snappa_ _efter något_ have a figurative meaning of to desire something, be it air or something else, but its use is rare. The use of _sukta_ is also getting old-fashioned. The meaning of both words are from _Svenska Akademiens Ordbok _- The Swedish Academy Dictionary online: http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/


----------

