# נא, סר



## Colla

From an online dictionary I get that the meaning of "נא" is connected to "להניא", meaning       "to prevent, dissuade, avert, hinder",     while the meaning of "סר" is related to "הוסר", meaning "be removed; taken off", or to "להסיר", meaning "to remove; take off ", or still to "לסור", meaning "to go aside; go away; remove".  Is it possible that those two former words are conjugations of their respective latter?
Thank you for your help


----------



## yuval9

i hadn't heard of the word להניא, so i checked in the dictionary and it said that it means "to prevent"

but, the word נא means "please". this word is not used much today. it is used a lot in the bible and in old hebrew scripts, or in poems
or in written signs, like: נא לסגור את הדלת (please close the door)


סר is not in use much either. but it means "to move away from something" or "to stop doing something" or "to stop following a certain religion or  commands".
(i couldn't find the accurate definition)

סר מרע - stopped  doing bad things 
האיש לא סר מדברי המנהל - the man did not stop following his manager's commands


---
i  don't know how much you know about the hebrew grammar (because this  is kind of progressive). 
if you are just a beginner then it might be too complicated for you.

 the word סר is not an unusual verb. and i can  give you some examples to show you: 

ר.ו.צ
רץ, לרוץ, הריץ,הורץ, להריץ, התרוצץ
ש.י.ר
שר, לשיר
ע.ו.פ
עף,לעוף,העיף,הועף,להעיף, להתעופף, לעופף
ב.ו.נ
הבין,הובן,התבונן
ס.ו.ר
סר,הסיר,להסיר, הוסר

this group of roots is called נעו"י 
נחי עה"פ ו או י
or in english: when the second letter of the root (עה"פ) is Vav or Yod, and it completely changes the word, so the Vav/Yod is silent.

--
by the way, there is also another group called ע"ע. it mean that the second letter and the third letter of the root are the same letter. and it causes changes that are similar to נעוי 
ח.ל.ל, ק.ל.ל, ח.ג.ג, ס.ב.ב
סב,סובב,הסתובב,הסב,הוסב

i don't know the word להניא . so i guess the root of נא is נ.ו.א , נ.י.א or נ.א.א
one of the three, i can't really tell for sure.
 but i think it is נ.י.א , because i think otherwise it would "הנא" instead of "הניא"

this is very difficult  for hebrew speakers too.

​​


----------



## ks20495

First off, I would translate "סר" as "turn away (figuratively)".



> Is it possible that those two former words are conjugations of their respective latter?



They are not conjugations of each other. But, you are correct in noticing that they are related. (Let's focus on סר - הסיר, since נא is more of an interjection.) 

In Hebrew, a word is formed by placing the three consonants of the root (שורש) into a paradigm of vowels. 

The root has a vague meaning. But, you can only create a specific meaning (i.e., a word) by joining the root with the paradigm of vowels.

For verbs, there are seven paradigms (בניינים). So, סר - הסיר - הוסר are three verbs that are formed by joining the root ס-ו-ר with a verbal paradigm. 

You do not see all three letters of the root. This is because the presence of a ו in the root changes the form of the paradigm slightly.

Yuval's explanation provides a lot more details on the whole process. But, my short explanation tells you what's going on in short.


----------



## kahlon

Adding to Yuval's answer:

להניא comes indeed from נ-ו-א.
The root appears in the bible, e.g. in the Book of Numbers 30:6, and in 14:34. Usually relates to prevention.


Notice that the word "נא" may mean both the the interjection "please", and adjective "rare (meat)" (as in arabic).


----------



## OsehAlyah

yuval9 said:


> i hadn't heard of the word להניא, so i checked in the dictionary and it said that it means "to prevent"


I thought להניא means to dissuade, as opposed to מנע which means to prevent. How else would you say to dissuade in Hebrew?


----------



## ks20495

"הניא" is a pretty formal word. 
I would say "לא X  שכנע את" (i.e., "persuade X not to").


----------



## OsehAlyah

ks20495 said:


> "הניא" is a pretty formal word.
> I would say "לא X  שכנע את" (i.e., "persuade X not to").


Hmmm that would sound very awkward in English. So have you heard or used the word הניא? Does it have other meanings beside dissuade? It is used quite extensively in the Torah.


----------



## ks20495

> Hmmm that would sound very awkward in English.


Really? I think, "I persuaded Bill not to eat" or "I convinced Bill not to eat" sound a lot more natural than "I dissuaded Bill from eating."



> So have you heard or used the word הניא? Does it have other meanings beside dissuade? It is used quite extensively in the Torah.



I know the word...It just isn't common conversationally.


----------



## OsehAlyah

ks20495 said:


> Really? I think, "I persuaded Bill not to eat" or "I convinced Bill not to eat" sound a lot more natural than "I dissuaded Bill from eating."


In my personal experience. Both persuade and dissuade are fairly high register words. So people who use them, including myself, would use dissuade for negative and persuade for positive. The word convince is not of a high register, and is very much an every day word. So it would be common to hear people use it in the form you outlined above. Again, this is just my experience. It may be different for others.


ks20495 said:


> I know the word...It just isn't common conversationally.


OK. Thank you.

שבת שלום


----------



## Dargonfly

פירוש

לשכנע מישהו לא לבצע משהו

דוגמאות

המטרה היא להניא את שר האוצר מלקצץ בתקציב.

ניסיתי להניא את עומר לבצע את המעשה, אך ללא הצלחה


אני לא יודע אנגלית
תתרגמו לו =]


----------

