# Urdu: قریب ترین



## teaboy

Is there a difference between قریب ترین _qarib tarin_ and simply قریب _qarib_?


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## Faylasoof

Yes! قریب ترین = nearest , while قریب = near. 

It goes like this:

Positive قریب = near 
Comparative قریب تر = nearer
Superlative قریب ترین = nearest


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## teaboy

Faylasoof said:


> Yes! قریب ترین = nearest , while قریب = near.
> 
> It goes like this:
> 
> Positive قریب = near
> Comparative قریب تر = nearer
> Superlative قریب ترین = nearest



I never knew that!  I had a friend who described her third daughter as a _mushkil tareen laRki_ , and I always assumed that just made an adjective that was used to describe a person's nature.  Ha!  I wonder if the second daughter was _mushkil tar_ and the first daughter was merely _mushkil_!


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## Faylasoof

We borrowed this way of making comparatives and superlatives from Persian!


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## teaboy

So since there is _zyaada_ and _zyaadatar_, there must be also _zyaadatarin_?

But I have always understood that _zyaadatar _was the adverbial form of _zyaada.  _Is this incorrect?


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## harkabir

An exception to this rule of comparatives and superlatives borrowed from Persian:

Good
خوب - Khoob - Good
بھتر - Behtar - Better
بھترین - Behtareen - Best

For some adjectives in Persian / Faarsi different roots are used for different degrees of the same adjective.

Some other common adjectival constructions in Urdu based on this model are :

بد / بدتر / بدترین
حسین / حسینتر / حسینترین
بزرگ / بزرگتر / بزرگترین

There are many more.


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## harkabir

teaboy said:


> So since there is _zyaada_ and _zyaadatar_, there must be also _zyaadatarin_?
> 
> But I have always understood that _zyaadatar _was the adverbial form of _zyaada.  _Is this incorrect?



Although grammatically, these constructions could be deemed accurate, I think that to use زیادھتر or زیادھترین in today's Urdu as comparative and superlative would sound extremely artificial. I could be wrong here as I have no formal training in Urdu. 

To my ears these examples "sound" better:

Comparative - اس سے کھیں زیادھ ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
Superlative - سب سے زیادھ or perhaps something else which "sounds" better.

Of course there are many many other adjectives where this تر - ترین construction sounds very sweet and very apt as well. Refer my previous reply.


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## BP.

harkabir said:


> An exception to this rule of comparatives and superlatives borrowed from Persian:
> 
> Good
> خوب - Khoob - Good
> بھتر - Behtar - Better
> بھترین - Behtareen - Best
> 
> ...



There's no exception there IMV. _beh_/_bah_-بہ is a perfectly alright albeit in Urdu uncommon way of saying _good_.

We discussed it in this earlier thread.


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## BP.

harkabir said:


> Although grammatically... accurate, I think that to use زیادھتر or زیادھترین in today's Urdu as comparative and superlative would sound extremely artificial. ...


I understandthat's an opinion, but _ziaada tariin_ isn't a pompous word.  We might have not heard it very often that's all. If you wish to avoid it, you could use _besh tariin_-بیش ترین- instead! Or the phrase you offer below.



harkabir said:


> ...
> To my ears these examples "sound" better:
> 
> Comparative - اس سے کھیں زیادھ ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
> Superlative - سب سے زیادھ or perhaps something else which "sounds" better.
> ...


Grammatically those aren't comparative or superlative degrees, although a comparison is sure being made. Also, _is/us se kahii.n ziaada_-اس سے کہیں زیادہ translates to  'substantially greater' not simply 'greater'.

Thank you.


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## Faylasoof

*Moderator note:

The discussion about the use of بہbeh**  in Urdu has been moved to the thread here! 

Please post all your contributions concerning this topic there. In this thread let us stay with the use of **تَر -tar and تَرین -tariin.*


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## Cilquiestsuens

the use of the superlative suffix  *-tareen* is not dying out in Pakistani Urdu, on the contrary I have the feeling it is used more and more = its usage has spread to the Indic words of the language and you would hear routinely here = _*sastaa-tareen kapRe ichhre se milte hai.n.*_ This is one example I could give many more. (in this case my observation is that the declinable adjective = _*aa / ii / ee*_) normally remains in the masculine singular ending -_*aa*_ whatever the gender of the thing discussed - i.e. = you would not say **sastee-tareen*....

I've even heard _*ghaTiya-tareen*_...


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## harkabir

Ghatiyaatareen!!!!! LMAO Ghalib saahab kyaa kahenge


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## Koozagar

I have heard Sastee-tareen in Lahore, Sasti-tareen gaari, Sasti-tareen chappal,  etc.


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## teaboy

Urdu just keeps evolving, it is so alive!  Really, it is like a linguistic kaleidoscope.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Koozagar said:


> I have heard Sastee-tareen in Lahore, Sasti-tareen gaari, Sasti-tareen chappal,  etc.



You must be right.... This usage is not really standardized yet for sure... Urdu channels use a lot the_* taazatareen*_ for = latest / breaking news

In comparison, the comparative ending *-tar* is just not used in the language, except in the words already mentioned by other foreros, such as *behtar* or _*ziyaadaatar..*_. in which tar is not really understood as a suffix but rather as an integral part of the word itself..


P.S. After giving it a second thought, tar must still be understood in expressions sounding a bit literary but still acceptable in educated speech such as in  بد سے بدتر  (=> ''from bad to worse'')


*یہ معاملہ بد سے بدتر ہو گیا


*Any other use of _*-tar *_you can think of in common speech?? ​


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## harkabir

My experience tells me that haseen and haseentareen are used and accepted much more than haseentar is, which is indeed a rare form.


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> You must be right.... This usage is not really standardized yet for sure... Urdu channels use a lot the_* taazatareen*_ for = latest / breaking news


 This is indeed true! More below!



Cilquiestsuens said:


> In comparison, the comparative ending *-tar* is just not used in the language, except in the words already mentioned by other foreros, such as *behtar* or _*ziyaadaatar..*_. in which tar is not really understood as a suffix but rather as an integral part of the word itself..


 Well, I would modify this statement to say the use of _*-tar *_is less frequent in common speech but there are many more words where we use this comparative and this is entirely a matter of perception! In both, the _*-tar*_ suffix may have been mentally "ligated" respectively to the words _*beh*_  and _*ziyaadah*_ but it is still a suffix.


Cilquiestsuens said:


> P.S. After giving it a second thought, tar must  still be understood in expressions sounding a bit literary but still  acceptable in educated speech such as in  بد سے بدتر  (=> ''from bad to worse'')
> 
> 
> 
> *یہ معاملہ بد سے بدتر ہو گیا
> 
> 
> *Any other use of _*-tar *_you can think of in common speech?? ​


 Many words with the -tar suffix are part of our speech whether they are used commonly or not. _We_ seem to use them more frequently than others. 


harkabir said:


> My experience tells me that haseen and haseentareen are used and accepted much more than haseentar is, which is indeed a rare form.


 Both *Hasiin* and _*Hasiin tariin* _are indeed common and though _*Hasiin tar *_sounds more literary, it is nevertheless used by us in the same way as _*bad tar*_ in an expression like *Hasiin se hasiin tar*, though _*bad tar*_ is more commonly used.

In more recent times, the use of *–tar* though up is not as high as the use of *–tariin*, which we are finding almost everywhere. Now nearly any word, whether of Perso-Arabic stock or Indic etymology, is being used with *–tariin* to form its superlative. Hence, the occurrence of _ *ghaTyaa tariin*_, *lambaa tariin* etc.- Indic words - besides superlatives like *ziyaadah tariin*, *sastah / sastii tariin* etc. - Perso-Arabic words.   

BTW, words like *sastah / sastii tariin*, *garaa.n tariin*, *taazah tariin* have been around for quite a long time and while *ziyaadah tariin* sounds unusual, it isn’t wrong! Its comparative form, *ziyaadah tar* is very common just as *tamaam tar* and *xuub tar* are, and have been for generations. The latter two also make the superlatives *tamaam tariin *and *xuub tariin* which are used with varying frequencies.


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