# Hindi/Urdu: the powers that be



## greatbear

How would you translate the often-used phrase "the powers that be" in Hindi/Urdu (please do not give answers only in Urdu script, as I won't be able to read them then)?

If anyone is unfamiliar with the phrase itself, here's the Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_powers_that_be_(phrase) 

Some examples from American sources:

"No, and then you start speaking up, like she said, to *the* *powers* *that* *be*  and it just seemed like it was falling on deaf ears or we'll fix that  later, or there's more, something else would seem like it was more  important."

"After you have convinced *the* *powers* *that* *be*  that you have an important goal, you have to answer these questions as  you prepare to gain support for your proposed cultural change"

"*The powers that be* should never underestimate poets. On the other hand, one must watch closely those who hate both youth and book learning."

"Our old, rusty ships were completely vulnerable, as *the* *powers* *that* *be* had deemed it unnecessary for them, and the landing party, to be equipped with antiaircraft guns."

A word that instantly comes to my mind is "adhikaar": however, "ve jo adhikrat haiN" or "ve jinke paas adhikaar hai" sounds not only quite a mouthful to me but not at all as catchy as "the powers that be". Also, the English phrase often simultaneously conveys a sense of resignation and even sarcasm: the phrase itself could be used for anyone wielding authority, ranging from parents to governments and dictators.

Any ideas of something equivalent in Hindi and/or Urdu? If it doesn't exist, you have every liberty to coin something. I've been ransacking my brains but to no avail.


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## Alfaaz

Interesting question! Some of my suggestions may be wrong! 



> Any ideas of something equivalent in Hindi and/or Urdu?


*For Urdu: 
*جو..... قوّتیں/ طاقتیں..... ہیں/ ہوں jo (quwwateiN/taaqateiN) (haiN/hoN)
موجود قوّتوں/ طاقتوں maujood quwwatoN/taaqatoN
مختار خاص mukhtaar-e-khaas
صاحب / صاحبان اہلیت / طاقت / قوّت / اختیار saaHib(aan)-e-ahliyat/quwwat/taaqat/ikhtiyaar
ذی اختیار zee ikhtiyaar
اہلیان ahliyaan



> "After you have convinced *the* *powers* *that* *be* that you have an important goal, you have to answer these questions as you prepare to gain support for your proposed cultural change"


ان) کو اس بات پر قائل کرنے کے بعد کہ آپکے پاس ایک اہم مقصد ہے، آپکو ان سوالات کا جواب دینا ہوگا جیسے جیسے آپ اپنی تجویز کردہ ثقافتی تبدیلی کے لئے حصول سیاسی حمایت کی تیاری کرتے ہیں 
____________________, (un) ko is baat per qaail karne ke ba'ad keh aap ke paas aik aham maqsad hai, aapko in sawaalaat ka jawaab dena hoga jaise jaise aap apni tajweez-kardah saqaafti tabdeeli ke liye Husuul-e-siyaasi Himaayat ki tayaari karte hai

_*For Hindi (from my limited knowledge):*_ 
astitva shaktiyoN/adhikaariyoN/adhikrat.............?


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## UrduMedium

One formal Urdu term you will find in the books is _ahl-i-Hall-o-3qd_. It pretty much means the people of authority/influence/power, or maybe the _ruling elite_. Literally, it means _people able to untie and tie_, but the implication is one who has temporal authority and control.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> How would you translate the often-used phrase "the powers that be" in Hindi/Urdu (please do not give answers only in Urdu script, as I won't be able to read them then)?
> 
> ....
> A word that instantly comes to my mind is "adhikaar": however, "ve jo *adhikrat* haiN" or "ve jinke paas adhikaar hai" sounds not only quite a mouthful to me but not at all as catchy as "the powers that be". Also, the English phrase often simultaneously conveys a sense of resignation and even sarcasm: the phrase itself could be used for anyone wielding authority, ranging from parents to governments and dictators.
> 
> Any ideas of something equivalent in Hindi and/or Urdu? If it doesn't exist, you have every liberty to coin something. I've been ransacking my brains but to no avail.



Hi, what about _sattaa waale_?

btw, shouldn't _*adhikrat*_ rather read as *adhikṛ(i)t*?


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Hi, what about _sattaa waale_?
> 
> btw, shouldn't _*adhikrat*_ rather read as *adhikṛ(i)t*?



Both pronunciations exist.


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## greatbear

Thanks all for the replies. "sattaa", I don't think, could be used for all kinds of authorities, for example, parents.

For the Urdu terms proposed by Alfaaz and UM, could all of them be used in all the example dialogues I had given in the OP?


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## Alfaaz

> For the Urdu terms proposed by Alfaaz and UM, could all of them be used in all the example dialogues I had given in the OP?


_Not sure if all the terms I provided above were correct_, but I think they could be used in all the examples, as they all have the general meaning of people in authority/power to do something/to make decisions... 


> *For Hindi (from my limited knowledge):*
> astitva shaktiyoN/adhikaariyoN/adhikrat.............?


Any thoughts, comments, corrections on the above...?


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## Cilquiestsuens

In some contexts the colloquial expression kartaa dhartaa could aptly render this idea IMHO.


Hukuumat ke kartaa dhartaa...

Film industry ke kartaa dhartaa....

etc.


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## Qureshpor

gb, you have started a great thread. I have checked the reference in the Bible (Romans 13:1) which is:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the powers that be are ordained of God."

I thought the best translation of "the powers that be" would be found in the Urdu/Punjabi/Hindi Bible translations. But, I do believe the sense in which this phrase is used now days has shifted. Alfaaz, as usual, has provided a number of possibles but has n't really directed us to the meaning we should go for. Cilquiestsuens 's "kartaa-dhartaa" seems to me to fit the English phrase like a glove. And the beauty of this is that it is used in Punjabi, Urdu and Hindi!

Here are a few that I think would be Urdu equivalents.

kaar-farmaa (The ones who give orders)
saaHib-i-ixtiyaar/baa-ixtiyaar/ixtiyaar-vaale (The ones in authority)
taaqat vaale (Ones possessing power)

I might go for "ixtiyaar vaale".


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## greatbear

"kartaa dhartaa" is a very good suggestion, and in many contexts it would fit very well. However, when "the powers that be" are unnamed or undefined, then "kartaa dhartaa" cannot work. A child might say, "The powers that be have thought I should be watching cartoons (only)", wherein he means his/her parents or guardians by the phrase, but "kartaa dhartaa" cannot really work here.
"ixtiyaar-vaale" sounds good to me as well, but I was looking for something that sounds much more idiomatic as the English phrase is.


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## greatbear

Alfaaz said:


> Any thoughts, comments, corrections on the above...?



I think I had rejected "adhikaar" in my opening post itself, for it's too weighty a word. As for corrections, "astitva" means "existence", not "existing", so you would have to say "astitva meiN shaktiyaaN".


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## Alfaaz

QURESHPOR said:
			
		

> Alfaaz, as usual, has provided a number of possibles but has n't really directed us


I would go for any of these depending on context/situations...



			
				Alfaaz said:
			
		

> موجود قوّتوں/ طاقتوں maujood quwwatoN/taaqatoN
> مختار خاص mukhtaar-e-khaas
> صاحب / صاحبان اہلیت / طاقت / قوّت / اختیار saaHib(aan)-e-ahliyat/quwwat/taaqat/ikhtiyaar
> اہلیان ahliyaan





			
				QURESHPOR said:
			
		

> but has n't really directed us to the meaning we should go for.





			
				Alfaaz said:
			
		

> as they all have the general meaning of people in authority/power to do something/to make decisions...


kartaa dhartaa is great! 
*Questions: 
*Would these work? اہلیان ahliyaan , مختار خاص mukhtaar-e-khaas
Wouldn't _"kartaa dhartaa"_ be more like_ "organizer" _or _"manager"_...?


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## Qureshpor

greatbear said:


> "kartaa dhartaa" is a very good suggestion, and in many contexts it would fit very well. However, when "the powers that be" are unnamed or undefined, then "kartaa dhartaa" cannot work. A child might say, "The powers that be have thought I should be watching cartoons (only)", wherein he means his/her parents or guardians by the phrase, but "kartaa dhartaa" cannot really work here.
> "ixtiyaar-vaale" sounds good to me as well, but I was looking for something that sounds much more idiomatic as the English phrase is.


 Yes, I see your point.

If I were to amend "jis kii laaThii us kii bhaiNs" to "laaThii vaale haath", how would this sound to you? It would fit in all the examples that you provided in your opening post. 

laaThii vaale haath (for the direct case) and "laaThii vaale haathoN.." (for the oblique case). This is quite simple and straight forward as well.

I wonder what "the powers that be" have in mind for us poor workers!

nah jaane "laaThii vaale haathoN ne" ham be-chaare mazduuroN ke liye kyaa soch rakhaa hai!

I must add here that UM saaHib's "ahl-i-Hall-o-3aqd" (more accurately "arbaab-i-Hall-o-3aqd) would be a perfectly idiomatic and literary equivalent of "The powers that be" in Urdu.


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## UrduMedium

QURESHPOR said:


> Yes, I see your point.
> 
> If I were to amend "jis kii laaThii us kii bhaiNs" to "laaThii vaale haath", how would this sound to you? It would fit in all the examples that you provided in your opening post.
> 
> laaThii vaale haath (for the direct case) and "laaThii vaale haathoN.." (for the oblique case). This is quite simple and straight forward as well.
> 
> I wonder what "the powers that be" have in mind for us poor workers!
> 
> nah jaane "laaThii vaale haathoN ne" ham be-chaare mazduuroN ke liye kyaa soch rakhaa hai!
> 
> I must add here that UM saaHib's "ahl-i-Hall-o-3aqd" (more accurately "arbaab-i-Hall-o-3aqd) would be a perfectly idiomatic and literary equivalent of "The powers that be" in Urdu.



QP saahab, thanks for the correcting my rusty memory. I agree it should be _arbaab-i-Hall-o-3aqd_, instead. Another variation on this in common use is _arbaab-i-ixtiaar_.


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> (Romans 13:1)



one translation states uchch-adhikaariyaaN

one other word not yet mentioned could be nigaraan, but not sure if that really has the appropriate meaning.

i see no problem with maujuud shaktiyaaN, replacing astiva.

i also like QB-saahib's taaqat waale or taaqat rakhnevaale.


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## Qureshpor

In Urdu, there is a common phrase "Haakim-i-vaqt" which can be translated as "Ruler of the time" or "The present ruler". If we changed "ruler" to "rulers", we would get..

*Hukkaam-i-vaqt *(Rulers of the time). I believe this would be quite close to "Powers that be". These "rulers" can be one's management, one's local or national government and so on.


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> .....
> *Questions:
> *Would these work? اہلیان ahliyaan , مختار خاص mukhtaar-e-khaas
> Wouldn't _"kartaa dhartaa"_ be more like_ "organizer" _or _"manager"_...?


 اہلیان _ahliyaan_ alone wouldn't work! But if you make it a compound with words denoting power / authority etc. then it would work perfectly! Same for صاحبان SaaHibaan!

اہلیان اقتدار *ahliyaan-e-iqtidaar* = صاحبان اقتدار *SaaHibaan-e-iqtidaar* = _powers that be_

… and in this context I would much prefer to use the word اقتدار *iqtidaar* , rather than اختيار* ixtiyaar*!

One can also use the singular forms: _*ahl-e-iqtidaar*_ / _*SaaHib-e-iqtidaar*_. But this can also refer to a single person and not necessarily a _class_ of people in power, though the latter is included, e.g. _woh log SaaHib-e-iqtidaar haiN _= _Those people have power and authority / are in control. _


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## UrduMedium

^ Following the lead above ...  _*arbaab-i-iqtidaar*_ (in addition to the earlier _*arbaab-i-ixtiaar*_)


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## Faylasoof

UrduMedium said:


> ^ Following the lead above ...  _*arbaab-i-iqtidaar*_ (in addition to the earlier _*arbaab-i-ixtiaar*_)


 Yes these two would work too but I must say I much prefer the compounds with _*iqtidaar *_and the term _*SaaHib-e-iqtidaar  *_we use a lot for both a person as well as for a group or class of people who are in control / have power / are in power. Of course to pluralize to *SaaHibaan-e-iqtidaar* adds to the meaning by ensuring that one is not talking of a single person but a whole class / group. The pluralized form can also be treated as a more emphatic way of saying the same.


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## Alfaaz

> اہلیان _ahliyaan_ alone wouldn't work! But if you make it a compound with words denoting power / authority etc. then it would work perfectly! Same for صاحبان SaaHibaan!
> 
> اہلیان اقتدار *ahliyaan-e-iqtidaar* = صاحبان اقتدار *SaaHibaan-e-iqtidaar* = _powers that be_
> 
> … and in this context I would much prefer to use the word اقتدار *iqtidaar* , rather than اختيار* ixtiyaar*!
> 
> One can also use the singular forms: _*ahl-e-iqtidaar*_ / _*SaaHib-e-iqtidaar*_. But this can also refer to a single person and not necessarily a _class_ of people in power, though the latter is included, e.g. _woh log SaaHib-e-iqtidaar haiN _= _Those people have power and authority / are in control. _


Thanks for replying! I'm a bit confused with the preference for iqtidaar.........for example, in one of greatbear's above examples dealing with a child discussing parents......in such a case wouldn't ikhtiyaar be better than iqtidaar (which seems to have a more official/political connotation)?


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Thanks for replying! I'm a bit confused with the preference for iqtidaar.........for example, in one of greatbear's above examples dealing with a child discussing parents......in such a case wouldn't ikhtiyaar be better than iqtidaar (which seems to have a more official/political connotation)?


 Well, it is like this: 

1) iqtidaar = power / authority --- we may normally use it to mean political power but that doesn't have to be so and the exact usage can depend on the context. 
2) ixtiyaar = freedom to choose / power to choose 

For no.2 you may have the power to choose but still not be able to impose your choice on others. At least it is not certain. But with no.1 you have power to also impose your will on others.

The exact choice would of course depend on the context.


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## marrish

I've just come across مقتدر قوتیں /_muqtadar quwwateN_/ in something I'm reading and remembered the discussion. For me it fits the bill, and is a pleasant expression, isn't it?


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## Qureshpor

That's a very good equivalent Marrish SaaHib. I would suggest that the word is "muqtadir".


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## marrish

Thank you for sharing your opinion and for the correction as well, QP SaaHib. The expression is thus to be read correctly as /مقتدِر قوّتیں _muqtad*i*r quwwateN_/, for the record.


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