# Swastika - is it commonly used where you live?



## badgrammar

I did a search but found no discussions on WR about the swastika.  I am curious to know if this ancient symbol is used in your country, and if so, what is its meaning? 

I thought of this because years ago a Korean friend made me a beautifully decorated "hat" box.  It has the swastika symbol on all sides and on the top.  I never displayed it very prominently, because my cultural association with it is the holocaust - which is a shame because is such an ancient symbol with many meanings, none of them having to do with genocide or racial purity.  

So, I wanted to hear about how you percieve the swastika, if it is prominent in your culture, what does it represent to you and what is its signifigance in your society?  If you entered someon'es house and saw the symbol, would you immediately associate it with the Third Reich and nazis, or would it seem normal because it is part of the decoration of an object? 

Thanks!


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## kiyama

I suppose that in Catalonia it would be hard not to associate it with nazis. Some people even wear stickers where it is crossed, thrown to a rubbish basket or walked on.
kiyama


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## Porteño

Here in Argentina it is most frequently associated with the Third Reich, probably because there are so many ex-participants still hiding here, although I gues most of them are dead or dying by now - it's been 62 years since it collapsed.


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## Drechuin

Almost only associated with nazism in France.
If I enterd in someone's house and saw this symbol, I'm pretty sure I would leave less than ten seconds later.

Swatiska for a decorative or other-than-nazi symbol is not unheard of, especially for Asian products, but it's not always well understand (I remember some harsh words about japanese cartoons about that).


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## Athaulf

badgrammar said:


> I did a search but found no discussions on WR about the swastika.  I am curious to know if this ancient symbol is used in your country, and if so, what is its meaning?



In Croatia, the symbol is not used for anything except its Nazi meaning, but the word itself (spelled _svastika_) means "wife's sister" in some dialects of Croatian.


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## alexacohen

In Spain is associated with the Third Reich too. Being a Jew, if I ever entered a house that displayed the symbol on top of the mantelpiece, for instance, I would run in the opposite direction as fast as lighting. 
Unfortunately it's becoming a common sight on the streets. Some empty-headed youths are using it as a kind of ornament on their jackets.

(Athaulf, I find it better suited to mean "husband's mother").


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## Porteño

Drechuin said:


> Almost only associated with nazism in France.
> If I enterd in someone's house and saw this symbol, I'm pretty sure I would leave less than ten seconds later.
> 
> Swatiska for a decorative or other-than-nazi symbol is not unheard of, especially for *Asian products,* but it's not always well understand (I remember some harsh words about japanese cartoons about that).


 
I recall having seen the symbol on ancient Greek pottery.


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## karuna

Swastika is quite common decoration in Latvia. It is used on clothing items, blankets, pottery, buildings  etc., usually not alone but together with other elements of national design. In this context it is not associated with the Nazi regime and its use is not diminished due to their misuse. Although in official ceremonies, out of political correctness, people would avoid using it.

EDIT: As for the meaning, then nowadays for most people it is simply a decoration. But a swastika has ancient use and it has many variations and names in Latvian – _ugunskrusts, kāšu krusts, pērkonkrusts _etc. The main idea is that it represents certain Deities of the Nature thus this sign protects its bearer from evil forces.

ADDED: I just realized that swastika elements are used on our money. Even if you can't see it clearly there, the motif is officially taken from the _Lielvārde _belt.


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## Mahaodeh

Exclusivly a nazi symbol here.


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## Kajjo

Absolutely forbidden to be used or displayed in Germany. Only very few exceptions for science and arts. Solely associated with Nazi regime.

Kajjo


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## Lingvisten

Before WWII, the svastika was a quite normal symbol in Denmark. It was a symbol of the god of thunder Thor, wich probably had its revival in the 19th century due to the romantic movement. Denmarks oldest and biggest brewery used the symbol for many years as a trademark. This is an old decoration of a bottle of Carlsberg beer:

http://www.netetiket.dk/imgs/store/carlsberg_mork_skattefri.gif


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## anothersmith

I've seen it used as a design element in older (pre-WWII) Native American blankets.   

Aside from that context, when we see it here it's associated with Hitler and the Nazis.


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## badgrammar

These are great responses!  Thank you all! I will try to post a picture of it tomorrow, what is interesting is that when you look at the object, in spite of the symbol being there, it comes off as decorative, not as a political statement.  Interesting that in Latvia it is commonly used for decoration!  That is the only place so far!


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## panjabigator

I am not the best source for this information, but the Swastika is definitely a religious icon from India.  The word comes from Sanskrit, thought I cannot surmise what the meaning is.  I believe that in Hindi it is related to the word for "health," but again, I'm unsure.

We have Swastikas in our house in Orlando, but the Indian version goes in the other direction.  I am so used to it that I have to think twice to remember it's other more grim significance.

Doesn't anyone else recognize this as a Hindu symbol?


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## anothersmith

No, I was not aware that it's a Hindu symbol.


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## palomnik

Not exactly my country, but in the Far East the swastika is considered a stylized version of the character _wan (ban _in Japanese) - 萬 in traditional and 万 in simplified characters.  It means ten thousand, but it is probably best known in the expression 萬歲 (万岁) ten thousand years - _wan sui _in Chinese and _banzai _in Japanese.

I'm surprised that nobody has commented yet on its ubiquitous use in India.


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## Hakro

The swastika (_hakaristi_ in Finnish) has been in Finland a very common symbol and a decoration pattern for centuries. It was also chosen as the symbol of Finnish Air Force in 1918, long before anybody knew anything about the Nazi party. Hitler made a sketch of a swastika flag only in 1919. 

The Finnish Air Force swastika was always blue and in upright position, but the Nazi swastika was usually (not always) black and in an angled position.

Unfortunately, the very old symbol of Indian origin that was also used in antique Greece, was later connected only to the Nazis. Today it's practically forbidden in Finland.

I'm sorry for losing a beatiful figure that has a history of thousands of years, only because of a maniac who raved here just a couple of decades.


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## Pie Crust

In the UK, the swastika is almost exclusively associated with Nazi Germany.

Our Prince Harry (son of Princess Diana) once went to a fancy-dress party dressed as a Nazi, sporting a swastika on the sleeve of his outfit.  He received a severe roasting in the press - quite rightly in my opinion.

The swastika is a definite "no no" in the UK.


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## panjabigator

Here is the wikipedia article for those who are interested.


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## samanthalee

In Singapore, the left-facing swastika 卍 in red or gold is associated with Buddhism.



palomnik said:


> Not exactly my country, but in the Far East the swastika is considered a stylized version of the character _wan (ban _in Japanese) - 萬 in traditional and 万 in simplified characters.



I can't recall any instance of 卍 and 万 (or 萬) being interchangable.  But according to wikipedia here, its pronunciation in Chinese had been decided by a Tang Emperor to be equivalent to the character _wan _- 萬 in traditional and 万 in simplified characters. (I assume that means each Chinese dialect will pronounce 卍  according to how they pronounce 万.) So maybe they are sometimes interchangeable?

We have a government-aided primary school (elementary school) called the Red Swastika School (卍慈学校, the swastika is always written in red). There is also a 红卍字会屯门卍慈小学 in Hong Kong, the Chinese full name is *Hong Kong Red Swastika Society Tuen Mun Red Swastika Primary Schoo*l, but it has been shorten to H.K.R.S.S Tuen Mun Primary School in its English official name (Notice that mentions of "swastika" is removed from the English name. Perhaps it's deliberate.).

We also frequently see it as decorative motifs in olden architecture (See attached if you can't see the 卍 in the motif).


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## _gelato_

It was Diwali last week (Indian New Year) and all the gift boxes for sweets were decorated with swastikas.

The swatstika is also a common motif in Chinese furniture design.  Wood carved into a boxed framework is often a modification of conjoined swastikas.


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## Lingvisten

The svastika is not forbidden in Denmark. You have every right to use which symbols you like. Of course you could ban every symbol that was used by an organisation who was responsible of killing people. But haven't almost every religion or government tributed to the killings? then you would have to make a subjective valuation of every symbol, and who are to deside which should be banned and which are not?

I think most educated people in Denmark know that the svastika is older than nazi germany. I actually think more people know of the Indian origin than the Danish.


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## Arrius

The Swastika or svastika (German _Hakenkreuz_) is, indeed used to decorate Hindu Temples, often connected into a frieze,  and began as a symbol of good fortune.  Rudyard Kipling used the symbol also in either direction (clockwise and anti-clockwise).  I used to own a leather-bound copy of his _Barrackroom Ballads_ with an upright, i.e. not tilted, svastika on the front cover surmounted by the head of an elephant in a circle. He hastily abandon this device at the rise of Nazism, even before the party came to power.  Some regard him as a racist, which I would hotly dispute, but the symbol he chose only indicated that he had subcontinental connections and had once as a young child spoken Hindustani or Hindi better than he did English.
   I have, to my surprise, even seen a svastika on an old English Christmas card sent by one devout Anglican lady to another, with no fascist connotations whatever.


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## badgrammar

Sorry, I tried to post a picture but I need to resize it first.  Will do as soon as I can!


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## CrepiIlLupo

I have definitely heard of the symbol being used in the Hindu belief system and in other eastern cultures to symbolize peace.  I certainly do think that it is a shame that Hitler ruined its meaning to a certain extent by exploiting it and associating it with his regime.

It seems that it is hard for us to accept that this symbol simply has many meanings to many people.  Furthermore, it can have many meanings to the same person depending upon the context of its use.  This discussion is seeming to head in the direction that it can only mean something good or something bad.  The fact of the matter is, it can mean whatever somebody intends it to mean, good or bad.  

Again, I understand and completely respect the this Hindu, Native American, Chinese symbol as a symbol representing peace when it is used in this manner.  However, the fact still remains that as an American, if I saw somebody who was white flying a flag with a swatstika on it, I would really have no choice but to assume it was intended to be a nazi symbol.  

A true "educated" person, by the nature of that definition, would have to be intelligent enough to deduct a difference between the situations in which the symbol was defined....


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## palomnik

samanthalee said:


> I can't recall any instance of 卍 and 万 (or 萬) being interchangable.  But according to wikipedia here, its pronunciation in Chinese had been decided by a Tang Emperor to be equivalent to the character _wan _- 萬 in traditional and 万 in simplified characters. (I assume that means each Chinese dialect will pronounce 卍 according to how they pronounce 万.) So maybe they are sometimes interchangeable?


 
Samantha, I wasn't aware that the connection between the swastika and 万 was as recent as the Tang. I got my information from Wieger's _Characteres Chinoises, _which can be unreliable.

It's interesting to note that Wikipedia indicates that the motif was common in Han times.


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## Outsider

I knew that this symbol was common in some cultures of India, but when someone uses it in Europe it's usually not because of their love for Eastern traditions. (Though, at least where I live, it's usually just youths with little to do wasting a can of spray on some wall to feel "rebellious".)


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## emma42

I recognise it as a Hindu symbol, but I only discovered this about fifteen years ago.  I was in the house of a lefty, vegetarian, hippy person and saw something decorated with a swastika.  I challenged the person and told them they should not be displaying such a disgusting symbol (being convinced that I was always right in those days.  Nowadays, of course, I am only right 99% of the time ).   I was then told that it was an ancient Hindu symbol and that it was staying where it was.  I have since told this story to several people and some of them were aware of the non-Nazi origin.

So, I do think that some are aware in the UK, but would venture to guess, not a majority.


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## dudasd

This makes me remember some interesting lessons about world-wide symbols I attended at the university (once upon a time). Analyzing swastika, from neolit till modern times, our professor showed us many different examples of it, from different periods and different parts of the world. He stimulated us to notice their direction. The most of them (not all) were going counter-clockwise, and then he explained us that it probably symbolized the path of the sun (somehow the most of people consider East to be "right" and West to be "left"), and accentuated the inverted position of the Nazi swastika. Since then I don't have any bad associations when I see it turned "westward", but I do when I see the "eastward" version of it. And yes, I think I could say it's forbidden here, maybe not by a state law, but people just react and hate to see it, so the fresh sign will always be whitewashed and its "painters" will usually be checked and interrogated by police.


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## Sepia

Hakro said:


> The swastika (_hakaristi_ in Finnish) has been in Finland a very common symbol and a decoration pattern for centuries. It was also chosen as the symbol of Finnish Air Force in 1918, long before anybody knew anything about the Nazi party. Hitler made a sketch of a swastika flag only in 1919.
> 
> The Finnish Air Force swastika was always blue and in upright position, but the Nazi swastika was usually (not always) black and in an angled position.
> 
> .....



Exactly - the traditional, every-body-else-nazi's swastika is sitting flat on the line. Rotating it by 45 degrees was Hitlers idea - using it as a symbol for the party was suggested by other members. Obviously he found it more "dynamic" that way.

In the 80es there used to be a Shorinji Kenpo dojo in Copenhagen - they also had a swastika on their training jackets. I am not sure if it wasn't reversed (mirror image) as compared with the nazi-symbol. This style of martial arts has a close connection not only to Buddhism but also Shintoism.

As for the Carlsberg swastika - somebody told me recently that there is still one left somewhere in a wall on the brewery  compound, but all facing the street were removed before WWII.


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## Porteño

dudasd said:


> This makes me remember some interesting lessons about world-wide symbols I attended at the university (once upon a time). Analyzing swastika, from neolit till modern times, our professor showed us many different examples of it, from different periods and different parts of the world. He stimulated us to notice their direction. The most of them (not all) were going counter-clockwise, and then he explained us that it probably symbolized the path of the sun (somehow the most of people consider East to be "right" and West to be "left"), and accentuated the inverted position of the Nazi swastika. Since then I don't have any bad associations when I see it turned "westward", but I do when I see the "eastward" version of it. And yes, I think I could say it's forbidden here, maybe not by a state law, but people just react and hate to see it, so the fresh sign will always be whitewashed and its "painters" will usually be checked and interrogated by police.


 
That seems to be a very sensible way of dealing with a sensitive matter.


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## Hakro

Sepia said:


> Exactly - the traditional, every-body-else-nazi's swastika is sitting flat on the line. Rotating it by 45 degrees was Hitlers idea - using it as a symbol for the party was suggested by other members.


The Finnish Armoured Forces (tanks) used a "short-ended" swastika from 1918 on, and a similar form was the symbol of the Lotta Svärd organisation (women helping the nation in war). Neither of them had anything to do with the Nazis.

Then I found and interesting picture in the web but I couldnt trace it - an aeroplane with "U.S.ARMY" and a swastika (note that the German planes had the swastika only in the rudder and it was always 45 degrees angled). Does anybody know anything about this Boeing?


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## Spectre scolaire

There is a fishery company in Iceland displaying a flag with a swastika. I once read a small article about it in a newpaper. The ignorant British journalist had asked the manager how they could think of using such a symbol after what happened in WWII, whereupon the manager had quipped:

“Well, the British Royal House [the House of Windsor] has skipped everything German. Here in Iceland, we have a longer tradition and we don’t feel like skipping anything Icelandic.”

He was of course referring to what is said about Iceland in the Wikipedia article. See also the propaganda cartoon from Punch (in Wikipedia s.v. “House of Windsor”) commenting on the King’s action in abolishing the German titles held by members of His Majesty’s family. The Icelandic manager was probably not aware of the fact that the name _Windsor_ was introduced already during the last part of WW*I*.

Following the article there was a picture of a fishing boat hoisting the swastika flag. I clipped it, but I don’t have it next to me where I am now.

As far as China is concerned I have seen the swastika numerous times, in temples, in museums - even in parks. Some Europeans and Americans get upset when they see it. We are all inculcated with our national historiography...
 ​


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## Hakro

This site is worth reading.


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## cuchuflete

Hakro said:


> This site is worth reading.



It is worth reading very carefully, with a discerning eye.  The author of that web site
is presenting some facts about use of the symbol, but interspersed with a lot of rubbish ideas.

Here is a fine example of sub-standard etymology, the kind that is as worthy of contempt as much of the rest of the text:

"                                It is worth noting that Americans still use  the   greeting     "hello"      as   they    did then, and it is related to the   German greeting     "Heil"   and  thus    to "Heil   Hitler."

​


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## Hakro

cuchuflete said:


> It is worth reading very carefully, with a discerning eye. The author of that web site is presenting some facts about use of the symbol, but interspersed with a lot of rubbish ideas.


You are right, but I think that those rubbish ideas are very easy to pick out.


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## Porteño

Hakro said:


> This site is worth reading.


 
Fabulous! Very interesting reading if you sort out the wheat from the chaff.


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## Fernando

Anyhow, I think the symbol was spoiled by the Nazis. 

As an example, no matter its age, the "Fascist" salute (extended arm) is inextricably associated to Nazis, Fascists and Falangists (Spain). There is no doubt that it was associated with the Romans in Western culture (we do not even have to search in India or Buddhism or Iran). So what? Their "innocent" uses have dead. It is not posible to use it without remembering their use in 1920-45.


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## Flaminius

Besides extensive use in Buddhist culture as Samantha has detailed above (some of which I have not recognised as a swastika but this only shows how common the character/icon is), 卍 is used as the standard symbol for a Buddhist temple in Japanese maps.


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## Lugubert

palomnik said:


> Samantha, I wasn't aware that the connection between the swastika and 万 was as recent as the Tang. I got my information from Wieger's _Characteres Chinoises, _which can be unreliable.


When Weiger differs from Cecilia Lindqvist in interpretations, it's not only for patriotic reasons I choose hers. After all, the first edition of Weiger was in 1899.



> It's interesting to note that Wikipedia indicates that the motif was common in Han times.


What I would have expected to find in the Wiki was a comparision between the swastika and the _tetraskele_, mentioned in passing without further links on Wiki's triskele entry.

Additionally, the triskele page doesn't mention that the three-legged symbol is found in Indonesia as well. I suppose there goes the Celtic theory.

I suppose I finally should answer the OP. I don't know how many Swedes know of the Indian origin of the symbol. In defacing public or private property, I think the originator is protesting against more or less everything rahter than advocating nazi Ideas, but perhaps I'm too optimistic...


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## rodoke

Mods: I'm not sure how on-topic this might be, so I'll understand if this disappears.

Where I live, Swastika=Nazi is burned into the brains of most everyone. People react to displays of the swastika with great anger, fear, and loathing. However, with a large number of "swastika sightings", the culprit  turns out to be a kid (or similarly immature person) causing trouble by exploiting that fact. 

As a child, I remember "knowing" the "evil" of the symbol long before anyone ever told me about the Nazis or Hitler. Until High School (approx. age 14-18) history, I only knew them as racist bogeymen. A couple of times when I was in school, someone chalked one on a wall or carved one onto a desk. Many children found it hilarious how easily this little symbol could throw the administration into complete disarray. Of course, after people hit puberty most of them started to find dating more interesting than instigation...

I wonder how much this "trollish, provocative" use compares to "sincere, hateful" uses nowadays.


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## Arrius

The Isle of Man, a largely automous British dependency with its own Celtic language (Manx),  situated in between England and Ireland in the Irish Sea, has a similar symbol as its emblem. The island is famous for off-shore banking, the TT motorcycle races, and the tail-less Manx cat:

_For centuries, the Island's symbol has been its ancient triskelion a device similar to Sicily's Trinacria, three bent legs, each with a spur, joined at the thigh_. (Wikipedia)

Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of it.


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## zippyoloo

In the USA it is rarely seen and the only cases I've seen it used are in textbooks or on television documentaries. Its generally not an appropriate symbol.


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## CrazyArcher

Nowadays in Russia swastika is associated almost exclusively with Nazism, although it can be seen as a decorative symbol in old Slavic art, representing the Sun there.


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## Tezzaluna

The United States is too big and too populous for me to presume to speak for everyone.  

The only place I see swastikas is on the news when hate crimes are being reported, or in documentaries about World War II.

Regardless of its origens, military, religious or otherwise, I view it as a symbol of man's cruelty to man, and something that must be remembered and never repeated.

Tezza


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## Benvindo

Porteño said:


> Here in Argentina it is most frequently associated with the Third Reich, probably because there are so many ex-participants still hiding here, although I gues most of them are dead or dying by now - it's been 62 years since it collapsed.


 
- - - -
In Brazil the swastika is also associated with the nazi and so is not used, at least openly.
BV


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## Porteño

Benvindo said:


> - - - -
> In Brazil the swastika is also associated with the nazi and so is not used, at least openly.
> BV


 
Only in Monte Grande, Itatiaia and near Peruibe.


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## Viperski

Since the beggining and after WWII svastika has started to be recognised as nazi symbol exclusively. Anyway I know before 1939 this symbol was sometimes (very seldom hovewer) used as hapiness as sukces symbol. I saw a picture taken in 1936 showed polish solders somewhere in the south of Poland with small svastika emblemats on their uniforms.
Anyway this symbol and both fashism and comunism ideology are forbiden in Poland (obviously right in my and 99,9% polish people oppinion)


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## Bilbo Baggins

I think that the Nazis made such an incredible impact that it´s impossible to associate the swastika with anything else at this point.


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## Porteño

Bilbo Baggins said:


> I think that the Nazis made such an incredible impact that it´s impossible to associate the swastika with anything else at this point.


 
It is certainly almost a gut reaction - instinctive, regardless of your awareness of the other more pleasant connotations.


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## EmilyD

Ironically I think that when teenagers and youth ( both under thirteen and over 19 years of age) use the symbol in graffiti, they often have little awareness of it having _*any*_ meaning.

They are vaguely conscious that it is "offensive" but may have missed the day in school when WWII was covered and certainly *cannot *find India on a map...

I hope I am wrong, but kids definitely use it and then are educated afterwards.

_Nomi

_edit: I corrected my spelling of graffiti (above).


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## Lugubert

Arrius said:


> _For centuries, the _[Isle of Man's]_symbol has been its ancient triskelion a device similar to Sicily's Trinacria, three bent legs, each with a spur, joined at the thigh_. (Wikipedia)
> 
> Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of it.


Try the link in my post #40.


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## echo chamber

In Macedonia, if you say swastika, no one will ever think of the symbol, because here svastika also means _the wife of your brother_.


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## Dr. Quizá

In Northern Spain is quite common the curved swastika, which is usually linked to Basque nationalism and called then "lauburu". It's a pre-Christian symbol and has also been found in many other parts of Europe, specially in areas of a Germanic or Celtic past.


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## Etcetera

badgrammar said:


> I did a search but found no discussions on WR about the swastika. I am curious to know if this ancient symbol is used in your country, and if so, what is its meaning?


It is used only by certain groups of people (do I need to explain in detail what people are they?..) Even people who know where the symbol comes from originally would first associate it with the nazis, I think - unless they're very advanced specialists in India and Ancient West.


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## Sepia

Dr. Quizá said:


> In Northern Spain is quite common the curved swastika, which is usually linked to Basque nationalism and called then "lauburu". It's a pre-Christian symbol and has also been found in many other parts of Europe, specially in areas of a Germanic or Celtic past.


 
Funny, if you hadn't mentioned I'd never have associated that with a swastika, but you are right, it is one.

A karate-based kick-boxing association used to use a similar symbol, but I thought it looked more like a ship's propeller than a swastika.

Have you ever seen the sign that looks like a normal sharp-angled swastika with the "hooks" extended to form a star around it? I actually looks like a combination of a jewish star and a swastika. 

I have only seen it at one place: At an old house somewhere on Mallorca.

Does anyone here know of such a sign?


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## eujin

In Korea the swastika is everywhere and used to denote Buddhist temples, as in many other countries and noted by others.

In New Zealand there are swastikas on the tiling patterns in Christchurch Cathedral (and a little notice explaining it's ancient usages).

In Denmark you can see swastikas in the architecture on the outside of Ny Carlsberg Glypotheket art museum in Copenhagen (near Tivoli), I assume through its connection with Carlsberg as noted by others.


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## lazarus78

Dr. Quizá said:


> In Northern Spain is quite common the curved swastika, which is usually linked to Basque nationalism and called then "lauburu". It's a pre-Christian symbol and has also been found in many other parts of Europe, specially in areas of a Germanic or Celtic past.


 
The curved swastika is quite common all along the North of Spain and not only to Basque Country. "Lauburu" means "four heads" and is a very popular folk symbol used in clothes, jewellery or other souvenirs. Although has the same meaning, and probably Celtic origin, than the swastika, almost no one gives a negative connotation to it. In the Western coast of Spain, namely Galicia and Asturias, this symbol is also very popular. In Asturias there is another version with three arms that is even more used, the trisquel. 

Nationalists (both radicals and moderate) have taken the lauburu or the trisquel as a symbol of the "nation" they feel identified with, but I think both signs are very widely accepted without any kind of political meaning.

Regards.
Lazarus.


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## dafne.ne

I thought it was a Celtic cross though it seems that it was found drawn in one cave in the paleolitical period.

Unfortunately, in Spain is mostly recognized as the Nazi symbol.


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## ArwaB

I am surprised no one has mentioned its origin country, India. The term derived from Sanskrit (India) and mean well-being. It is being used as a religious symbols in Hinduism since Neolhic period.


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## Mate

ArwaB said:


> I am surprised no one has mentioned its origin country, India. The term derived from Sanskrit (India) and mean well-being. It is being used as a religious symbols in Hinduism since Neolhic period.


Hello ArwaB, and welcome to the forums! 

The same was already stated in this post: http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=3952417&postcount=14

Please read the Culture discussion guidelines:

*When responding to a Cultural Discussions thread:

*​ - *read the rest of the replies first;*​ - remember this is a discussion, not a succession of personal statements.

Best regards, 

Mateamargo
Moderator
​


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## Primal

From the Canadian oppinions I have heard, most people only see it as a Nazi symbol, especially if it is coloured black. I _have_ heard that it used to be some sort of good luck charm, before they adopted it as their emblum. There is a town in Northern Ontario that is called Swastika, (pronounced (Swas-TEE-ka). It's been named that since before the Nazis, so they decided that they wouldn't rename it. I have seen the shape on carpets and some other things like that since the war, but almost never in black.
Prymal


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## Pedro y La Torre

I'm not sure where the bags were made but I just came across this story on the BBC.*




			The fashion chain Zara has withdrawn a handbag from its stores after a customer pointed out that the design featured swastikas.
		
Click to expand...

*
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7002765.stm


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## beakman

Pedro y La Torre said:


> I'm not sure where the bags were made but I just came across this story on the BBC.
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7002765.stm


I've just seen the bag and my vision of the swastika on it is totally as Nazi symbol. (I knew before this thread about its Hindu origins).
Regards for everybody,
Beakman


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## victoria1

In hindu rituals (marriage, any kind of prayer, etc.) the swastika is displayed. It is a highly religious symbol.


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## OldAvatar

In Romania, both Communist and Fascist symbols are forbidden.
However, it appears that the sickle and hammer symbol is less tolerated than the swastika. For objective reasons, I guess.


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## Zsanna

In Hungary it is the same as in our neighbouring countries. However, the swastika had already been most unwelcome ever since WWII. I do not think the sign was even known before that period (apart from scolars probably).
I met the "original" meaning of it in Italy when visiting Pompei for instance. (It appears e.g. in some of the mozaics.) 
But I saw the sign on very old buildings in Apuglia as well. I specially remember an ancient, stone archway built by a rich man as a wedding present for his daughter with lots of interesting carvings on it, including a swastika, all expressing wishes of good luck for the marriage. 
Although it was years after I knew about the "other" (=original) meaning of the sign, I couldn't help feeling (sort of) disgusted at the idea of having a swastika as your wedding present and having to live in a house that has that on its front gate.


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## ty604

Is the name for the swastika the original orientation or the German orientation only?

Anyway I have rarely seen it in Vancouver, Canada (almost never), and have never seen it in Japan.

It's a shame that the Nazi's ruined a symbol that originally was positive.


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## alexandro

In Italy it's exclusively related with the nazis, most people even don't know it's 2 meanings


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## Zsanna

alexandro said:


> In Italy it's exclusively related with the nazis, most people even don't know it's 2 meanings


 
Except for earlier times when it arrived with Hellenism... (See Pompei and the Greek villages in Apuglia.)


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## Mr Punch

For those of you discussing the origin in Chinese semiotics I just checked my Japanese dictionary and it said the same about its cognation with 'man' (which I'd been taught before anyway, and when you type 'man' into a mobile phone/some PC packages one of the options for a 'kanji' that comes up is the reverse swastika) but it doesn't say from when it acquired this. In Japanese of course, the sign is called 'manji' (lit.='ten thousand letter'/'letter for ten thousand'). I'll check again with my dictionary at home later.

EDIT: Just checked my Japanese-Japanese dictionary. It says: (Sankrit: svastika. Vishnu's etc whorl of chest hair) meaning of fully meritous. So as I thought it's directly associated with esoteric Buddhism hence the ascription of its origins directly to Sanskrit as opposed to Chinese. Interesting too that they ascribe it to a whorl of chest hair (and very specific it was too!  ) rather than some of the etymologies that link it to the sun-wheel. I think we can assume that it's older than Buddha, and since it goes back to the neolithic in some places it must be older than Vishnu and the gang too, but maybe we can infer as many depictions of Hindu/Buddhist deities show the chakras and these are often shown as bright light or like the sun that they are connected on this fundamental level too?

I do remember looking this up before (in Japanese) and linguistically it was associated with Sanskrit and the Indian roots, so not even through China although obviously all of the religious connotations would have come through Chinese Buddhism so I don't really see why they omit the connection. There is some evidence for it having existed as a Shinto symbol, and it's most often found (apart from on the eaves and tile-edges of domestic residences where it's also very common) on Shinto shrines rather than Buddhist temples. The sign is used for both on maps.

It really is everywhere over here. EDIT: It's now no longer used as a symbol for the Shorinji Kenpo organization due to its negative connotations (a shame) and has been replaced by a meaningless circular conglomeration of blobs. 

To the Japanese I've spoken to about it they really can't see the fuss. That isn't to say they can't see why we are shocked by it, but that to them it looks completely different. This is because the Nazi one was at a 45 degree rotation and so on its corner. Maybe this attitude has something to do with the very way Japanese people recognize symbols: it seem their recognition is a lot quicker in some ways. I'd be interested to see data on that and if the Chinese do too... on another thread of course!

Incidentally, I seem to remember (from school where we taught about it in history) the most common one is what we might call the reverse swastika (also called the savaustika?). This was supposedly a symbol of female power and health (perhaps our Indian brothers and sisters on the thread could confirm/refute this) and Hitler deliberately chose the male one as it was a stronger Teutonic symbol, and put it on its corner to avoid confusion with the Eastern ones.

To those of you debating about the triskelion and whether it has Indian or Celtic origins: don't forget, most of us on this board are probably from _Indo-European_ origins, so it probably shouldn't surprise you to find that especially in terms of prehistoric semiotics they're one and the same, any more than it should surprise us that swastika-like symbols were common all over Europe and the East at the same time!

Finally (sorry - I've gone on a bit - _think_ it was all on topic!), for those of you who said you'd walk straight out of house where you saw one as decoration I would hope (with a strong sense of irony), especially in the light of its use as a weapon of cultural domination and subjugation, that you would at least exercise enough cultural understanding and tolerance to find out what it meant to the house owner before you condemned them!


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## Flaminius

Mr Punch said:


> In Japanese of course, the sign is called 'manji' (lit.='ten thousand letter'/'letter for ten thousand').
> Samanthalee a few pages back mentions that the phonetic value of 卍 was determined as the same with «ten thousand» by a Tang emperor.
> 
> There is some evidence for it having existed as a Shinto symbol, and it's most often found (apart from on the eaves and tile-edges of domestic residences where it's also very common) on Shinto shrines rather than Buddhist temples.
> Extensive use of 卍 in Shinto shrines is easier to be attributed to the ubiquitous syncretism between Shinto and Buddhism, which the tenno-worshipping  Meiji bureaucrats could not eradicate completely.
> The sign is used for both on maps.
> Shinto shrines are depicted by their typical gate (torii).


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## Mr Punch

(I can't quote your quote!)

Yes, I was concurring with Samanthalee, and introducing the similarity in Japanese. This is a small point of interest (for those interested in Japanese rather than the origins/use of swastikas) as the Japanese associate it directly with Sanskrit rather than Chinese.

I see your point with regards to the syncretism between Buddhism and Shinto, but my point was that since the origins of Shinto are lost in the midsts of time and the swastika predates Buddhism and Shinto anyway, it is possible that the sign was used independently by Shintoists rather than through their connection with Buddhism.

And yes, I'd forgotten that Shinto shrines are often marked with the tori.

Anyway, to summarize and get back on topic: the swastika is found all over the place in Japan!


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## Mumintroll

Hakro said:


> The swastika (_hakaristi_ in Finnish) has been in Finland a very common symbol and a decoration pattern for centuries. It was also chosen as the symbol of Finnish Air Force in 1918, long before anybody knew anything about the Nazi party. Hitler made a sketch of a swastika flag only in 1919.
> 
> The Finnish Air Force swastika was always blue and in upright position, but the Nazi swastika was usually (not always) black and in an angled position.
> 
> Unfortunately, the very old symbol of Indian origin that was also used in antique Greece, was later connected only to the Nazis. Today it's practically forbidden in Finland.
> 
> I'm sorry for losing a beatiful figure that has a history of thousands of years, only because of a maniac who raved here just a couple of decades.


I agree. Although I wouldn't say it's forbidden. In the run up to the 90th anniversary of Finland's independence (which was on 6 December 2007), the veterans association was selling and marketing a commemorative ring which features a swastika (in its Finnish context) as part of its engraving - it was on sale across the country in a major chain shop as well as online. Also, the Finnish swastika was part of the logo of the Lotta Svärd women's organisation during the war. Occasionally when former members have died, you still see this emblem printed alongside their death notice in newspapers.


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