# sabía or sabría?



## Ms Missy

Would you please help me translating this "thought" into Spanish.  I want to say, "I knew he wanted to look back." 
(Brief background):  An (ex) whom I hadn't seen in a couple of years happened to be leaving a store as I was entering.  We exchanged brief greetings and continued walking in opposite directions.  A friend later told me that he had said he wanted to look back (at me), but had decided against it since he was with another female friend.  My response was, I knew he wanted to look back!"  So when trying to translate that into Spanish, I come up with:

1.  Yo había que él quería mirar atras.
2.  Yo habría que él quería mirar atras

Are either of these correct?

Thanks!


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## Huertano

"*Sabía *que quería mirar atrás."


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## blnc

Neither. 

Why do you want to use "haber" instead of "saber"?
Yo sabía que (él) quería mirar atrás

Para usar "yo sabría que él quería mirar atrás" tienes que decir algo antes, como:
Si otra amiga lo hubiera/hubiese visto de frente en ese instante y me hubiera/hubiese contado cómo "era/se veía" su cara de tensión en ese momento entonces _yo sabría que él quería mirar atrás_, pero como nadie lo vio, no estoy segura.

Otra manera de enfocar los subjuntivos sería usándolo sobre el verbo querer:
Yo sabía que él quería mirar atrás.
Yo sabía perfectamente que él hubiera querido mirar atrás, si yo llevase su vestido preferido.

Y si quieres retorcerlo más:
Yo sabría/habría sabido que él hubiera querido mirar atrás (en caso de no estar con esa otra chica) si hubiera dejado caer su libro al suelo.

El subjuntivo en esta oración es un poco complejo. Quédate con el indicativo, que va perfecto aquí.
(Me voy a terminar convirtiendo en tu gramática cibernética, Missy!  you know... it's a pleasure to _serve _you )


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## Ms Missy

Wow!  That was a quick response.  Thank you.  (I'm trying to practice "thinking in Spanish" as was suggested by one of the Forum members, so I feel proud of myself for getting the first one correct (imperfect) since that's what I had thought it should be, even though a borrowed text that I'm using said that the conditional tense should be used for "speculation."

Thanks again!


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## Outsider

If you say you know it, it doesn't count as speculation. It's a belief.


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## Ms Missy

Ooops!  Believe it or not ... but I actually meant to write sabía and sabría on the original post, so I hadn't even noticed that I'd written había and habría instead!  Thanks so much for pointing that out!


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## unspecified

> If you say you know it, it doesn't count as speculation. It's a belief.


True.  I think up until the point when your friend confirmed to you that he wanted to look back, speculation like "Debería de haber querido miraratrás" fits.  After it was confirmed, however, the indicative imperfect or plus perfect are more fitting.


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## Outsider

Sorry, Unspecified, but it's still not quite that. 

It doesn't matter if it's confirmed or not. If you state something, then it's not speculation. You have committed yourself to the statement you've made, if you will.


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## Ms Missy

Outsider said:


> If you say you know it, it doesn't count as speculation. It's a belief.


 
Thanks!  I thought it might be speculation since there wasn't really any way that I could _know _that he was going to look back.  But then I just looked up "speculation" in the dictionary and it has nothing to do with what I thought it implied.  (The main emphasis concerned "risk taking").


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## Outsider

I understand how this can be confusing. When we use the word "believe", we often mean something which has not been definitively proven or confirmed. But Spanish grammar does not make such fine distinctions. 

In a way, it's not what you're saying; it's how you say it. If you commit to a statement in an absolute way, it's assumed that you regard it as true (--> indicative). It's only when you are indirectly commenting on a statement, or trying to distance yourself from it in some way, that the subjunctive appers.


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## unspecified

Ugh.  Oh, grammar!  Thanks for the clarification, Outsider.  My attempt wasn't really a direct translation of the original "thought" (instead, something more like "He must have wanted to look back").  But, now that you mention it, I realize that that's not speculation either and therefore, not the correct tense.  

Now, would it be speculation if you said "Me pregunto si ..." to express something like, "I wonder if he was thinking about looking back"?  If so, "Me pregunto si quisiera [haber mirado/mirar] atras" would be right, right?

Also, sorry if I'm hijacking your thread (and perhaps causing more confusion), Ms. Missy.  Los pormenores of grammar (obviously) confuse me at times and it seemed like a good place to ask...


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## Outsider

unspecified said:


> Now, would it be speculation if you said "Me pregunto si ..." to express something like, "I wonder if he was thinking about looking back"?  If so, "Me pregunto si quisiera [haber mirado/mirar] atras" would be right, right?


Oddly enough, I think you would still use the indicative, there. I suppose it's because the sentence, when taken literally, has its emphasis on "I wonder..." rather than "he was thinking". 

_Me pregunto si él quería mirar atrás._

But you would use the subjunctive in "It's possible that he was thinking...", or "Perhaps he was thinking..."

_Es posible que él quisiera mirar atrás._
_Tal vez él quisiera mirar atrás._


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## unspecified

Yeah, I see what you mean...  Well, luckily I tend not to wonder if people are considering looking back at me, so I'll just hope it never comes up.

Thanks for your help!


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## Ms Missy

unspecified said:


> Ugh. Oh, grammar! Thanks for the clarification, Outsider. My attempt wasn't really a direct translation of the original "thought" (instead, something more like "He must have wanted to look back"). But, now that you mention it, I realize that that's not speculation either and therefore, not the correct tense.
> 
> Now, would it be speculation if you said "Me pregunto si ..." to express something like, "I wonder if he was thinking about looking back"? If so, "Me pregunto si quisiera [haber mirado/mirar] atras" would be right, right?
> 
> *Also, sorry if I'm hijacking your thread (and perhaps causing more confusion), Ms. Missy. Los pormenores of grammar (obviously) confuse me at times and it seemed like a good place to ask...*


 
It's no problem at all, unspecified. In fact I'm always hoping that my questions will also be of interest to others and will help to clarify their own doubts about a certain topic. I've learned quite a bit simply by reading some of the questions that other people ask on some of the other threads.

By the way, I used the expression "I knew ..." in the sense that us native speakers use it when what we actually mean is "I was pretty sure." For example if I'm watching one of those "Who Dunnit" type movies and the culprit turns out to be the same person that I was suspecting all along, I'll say, _I knew it!_ (When in actuality, how could I have really known who did it if I was viewing the movie for the first time. It would be different if that was my second viewing and I actually did know who the culprit was)! But of course in that case I think I'd probably have to use the preterite tense (_supe ???)_


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## Outsider

Ms Missy said:


> By the way, I used the expression "I knew ..." in the sense that us native speakers use it when what we actually mean is "I was pretty sure." For example if I'm watching one of those "Who Dunnit" type movies and the culprit turns out to be the same person that I was suspecting all along, I'll say, _I knew it!_ (When in actuality, how could I have really known who did it if I was viewing the movie for the first time. It would be different if that was my second viewing and I actually did know who the culprit was)! But of course in that case I think I'd probably have to use the preterite tense (_supe ???)_


No, you'd use the same tense in both cases. It makes no difference whether you're expressing experiential knowledge, or a strong conviction. Both are treated the same, as far as the subjunctive is concerned.


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## Ms Missy

Outsider ... could you explain this again for me? I don't understand why it would be correct to use the same verb tense in both instances. For example, it seems to me that if I were stating a FACT that I was sure of I would use a *"**sé" *construction, but if I had just found out something that I'd only been SUSPECTING all along, then it seems like I'd use the *Sabía* construction. 

So are you saying that the verb would be the same in either case? Please clarify that for me  

Missy


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## Outsider

Ms Missy said:


> So are you saying that the verb would be the same in either case? Please clarify that for me


It _could_ be the same verb tense. That depends on what you wish to say, exactly. But you would never say _supe_ in this case. The verb _saber_ is one of those few that have a special meaning in the preterite. Here's the basic idea:

_sé_ --> I know now
_sabía_ --> I knew then, used both for literal knowledge, and for metaphorical "knowledge" (=strong suspicion or conviction)
_supe_ --> I was told / I heard / I was able to / I managed to


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## Ms Missy

Thanks for the clarification, Outsider!  I'm still struggling to get the "concept" behind the various verb tenses, so this was a big help!  The ones I have the most problems with are those that we don't have in English.

Thanks again!


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## Marias-espanol

Hola,
Sí, ¡Gracias Outsider!  I was confused about this also.  So "I knew it."  Would be "Yo lo sabía."  ¡Es correcto, o no?
María


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## gambit

Marias-espanol said:


> Hola,
> Sí, ¡Gracias Outsider! I was confused about this also. So "I knew it." Would be "Yo lo sabía." ¡Es correcto, o no?
> María


That's right  . I knew it, Yo lo sabía or Yo lo supe, but you should use "sabia" because to use "supe" is more hard to learn.


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## Marias-espanol

Hola Gambit,
Gracias por su ayuda.  I will use "sabía" because I don't know "supe" and if it is harder, I better stick to the one I know.
María


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## Outsider

It's not so much that it is harder, IMO, but less common. 90% of the time, or even more than that, "I knew it" will be translated as _lo sabía_. _Lo supe_ means something else altogether.

P.S. Well, there's also _lo supiera_, but that's another story.


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## Ms Missy

This thread was very interesting and I regret having put the wrong title. It should have been *sabía or sabría?* and NOT *había or habría? *So because of my mistake, someone might miss out on some valuable comments if they're doing a forum search under "sabia." I'll have to be more careful next time! 

Missy


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## Ms Missy

Outsider said:


> It's not so much that it is harder, IMO, but less common. 90% of the time, or even more than that, "I knew it" will be translated as _lo sabía_.* Lo supe means something else altogether.*
> 
> P.S. Well, there's also _lo supiera_, but that's another story.


 
Outsider, if SABER means to know, and SUPE is the 1st person preterit, I don't see how it could mean anything other than "I knew" ... but in a different sense, of course.  But I'll leave it at that for now, and leave well enough alone since my original objective for this thread was to distinguish between usage of the imperfect and the conditional tenses.  I don't have as much of a problem understanding the Spanish tenses that we also have in English. 

So again, I wish to thank everyone for their help!
S_abía que podia contar en ellos!   (Stop laughing ... at least I tried)! _


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## boyaco

I knew he wanted to look back (at me) = *Sabía que él quería voltear a mirar(me).*


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## Ivy29

Ms Missy said:


> Would you please help me translating this "thought" into Spanish. I want to say, "I knew he wanted to look back."
> (Brief background): An (ex) whom I hadn't seen in a couple of years happened to be leaving a store as I was entering. We exchanged brief greetings and continued walking in opposite directions. A friend later told me that he had said he wanted to look back (at me), but had decided against it since he was with another female friend. My response was, I knew he wanted to look back!" So when trying to translate that into Spanish, I come up with:
> 
> 1. Yo había que él quería mirar atras.
> 2. Yo habría que él quería mirar atras
> 
> Are either of these correct?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Sabía que él quería mirar atrás. Se usa el imperfect past ( quería) como acción simultánea no perfectivo en el pasado.
También podrías decir :
Sabía que él querría mirar atrás ( condicional = querría) com futuro desde el pasado= sabía.

Ivy29


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## Ms Missy

Ms Missy said:


> Outsider, if SABER means to know, and SUPE is the 1st person preterit, I don't see how it could mean anything other than "I knew" ... but in a different sense, of course. But I'll leave it at that for now, and leave well enough alone since my original objective for this thread was to distinguish between usage of the imperfect and the conditional tenses. I don't have as much of a problem understanding the Spanish tenses that we also have in English.
> 
> So again, I wish to thank everyone for their help!
> S_abía que podia contar en ellos!  (Stop laughing ... at least I tried)! _


 
Outsider:  No sooner had I challenged your statement about SUPE also meaning "I knew it" in the preterite tense of saber, I logged off and pulled out the textbooks and the first thing that caught my attention was that saber is one of the verbs that takes on a different meaning in the preterite.  So I really appreciate you being the impetus for me taking a second look, since I had been so sure that my interpretation was correct, until I wouldn't have given it a second thought if you hadn't mentioned anything about SUPE having an interpretation other than "I knew."

*"Supe que yo había equivocado!"   *

(Is that correct?  I want to say, "I found out I was mistaken!")


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## Outsider

Ms Missy said:


> *"Supe que me había equivocado!" *


"To forget" is reflexive in Spanish, _equivocarse_. 

Though I should warn you that the sense of _supe_ is closer to "I heard about".


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## Ivy29

Outsider said:


> "To forget" is reflexive in Spanish, _equivocarse_.
> 
> Though I should warn you that the sense of _supe_ is closer to "I heard about".


 

*To forget*= olvidarse.

Ivy29


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## Ms Missy

Thanks, guys!  As usual, your comments and suggestions are very helpful.  For listening practice, I listen to a telenovela, and just this morning one of the actors said, "Yo supe que ..."  (I didn't catch the rest of what was said, but I wouldn't have even caught "supe" if it had not come up on this thread just a day or so ago!  I still need a lot of practice in all areas, and I'm finding that the forum is one of the best methods of getting in practice that's not explained sufficiently in a textbook.

So thanks again!


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