# Slovenian: wind the car with starting handle



## *cat*

Pozdravljeni!

Berem knjigo iz leta 1953. Izrazi glede takratnih avtomobilov mi niso preveč znani. Vem kako je stvar izgledala in za kaj gre, a ne poznam slovenskega izraza.

Kontekst: 
_"I hope it (the car) will start," she said. "Sometimes one has to wind it."
(kasneje ko avto ni vžgal) ...she inserted the starting handle and with a vigorous couple of turns woke the motor to life..._


Za boljše razumevanje prilagam še povezavo na sliko: 
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3331...A13B573E1BD2F27EF957AB901B580A55A1E4F32AD3138


Upam, da mi boste lahko pomagali. Hvala.


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## zigaramsak

Zdravo!

Lahko bi bila ročica za zaganjanje, zaganjalna ročica -> (ročno) zagnati motor z ročico za zaganjanje... Nisem ravno prepričan, bolj popularna izraza sta bila mogoče iz nemščine kurbel in (za)kurblati...


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## sokol

Takšne avtomobile se lahko zaganjati z ročice če ne zaganjajo z ključem - zaganjanje z ročice lahko si predstavljati kot zaganjanje motorno kolo z _kickstarter _(ne znam slovenskega izraza), samo da ročica se vrne v krogu. Zato zares - (za)kurblati (če te ne briga s tem da je iz nemščine).

(I am not quite sure about declension in some cases - sorry if there are some mistakes.)

This cars could be started with a winder if starting with the key wouldn't work - this one could describe as similar to starting a motorbike with a kickstarter, only the winder is rotating, of course. '(Za)kurblati' would be a good translation if you don't object against the word being of German origin.

This kind of winding up cars once was considered as men's work as it requires quite some strength; there are still vintage cars around here and there which have such a winder, as well as agricultural trucks (such as the famous Steyr 15er - still many of them are used here in Austria).
As for proper translation into Slovenian I cannot be of much help as my command of Slovenian is not very good (as you can see); but understanding the concept surely will help you formulate your own translation.


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## *cat*

Hvala in thank you!

Torej gre za zaganjanje avta - to wind the car = zagnati avto? Nekje sem celo zasledila "naviti avto", a se mi to zdi nekako smešno. 
Bolj bi ustrezal pravilen slovenski izraz, čeprav je seveda zakurblati veliko bolj pogost in razumljiv...

The starting handle = zaganjalna ročica - morda tudi startna ročica?


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## skye

Naviti avto ima drug pomen se mi zdi - izboljšati moč motorja ali nekaj podobnega.


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## zigaramsak

Zagotovo gre za zaganjanje avta (oz. spravljanje v tek, vžiganje), čeprav upam, da se bo oglasil kdo, ki bi bil prepričan, kako se je temu včasih res reklo. Gotovo obstaja popolnoma slovenski izraz, ki se je takrat moral uporabljati tudi v knjigah, saj je bil pri starih avtih, kot pravi sokol, to običajen postopek, nisem pa 100%, da se je res reklo točno tako.

Navijanje je nekaj drugega, tako kot pravi skye.


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## sokol

*cat* said:


> Hvala in thank you!
> 
> Torej gre za zaganjanje avta - to wind the car = zagnati avto? Nekje sem celo zasledila "naviti avto", a se mi to zdi nekako smešno.
> Bolj bi ustrezal pravilen slovenski izraz, čeprav je seveda zakurblati veliko bolj pogost in razumljiv...
> 
> The starting handle = zaganjalna ročica - morda tudi startna ročica?



Sorry, I'm really at a loss to answer in Slovenian (it would take me one or two hours and you would probably still misunderstand).

Certainly it's about _zaganjenje avta_ - and with cars, it was like that:
- in the beginning (early 20th century and before) one only had a wheel which had to be spinned, or (later on) a winder (or a kickstarter, with motorcycles)
- later came machines which could be winded up by a complicated procedure that was, later on, done by just turning the key only, but they still had a manual winder if this didn't work

And this last one is the type of car they are talking about in the sentence you've mentioned above.
The procedure could have involved different movements (with a Steyr 15 it would be: 1. turn key, 2. gas on, 3. disengage compression - because it's a diesel engine - with a handle, 4. turn the starting handle, 5. the motor starts winding, and you engage compression as soon as you feel the motor's moving fast enough to properly start up: done!) which would depend on the model and on the fuel.

I am quite sure that your sentence describes the situation as follows:
- "Sometimes one has to wind it": this should mean that sometimes the car won't start with the usual procedure, it's a statement that the driver fears 
the motor won't start up.
- "... she inserted the starting handle ...": this, now that I take a closer look, could actually mean two things:
1. The woman inserts the starting handle (the winder) into the car (most of the times on the front, with cars who have the machine in the back it's of course at the rear), and the motor chokes to live after she turns the handle a few times round. (The "vigorous couple of turns" could refer to both the engine and the starting handle: there's some force required to manage this, as I stated earlier.) This _could _(!) involve the need of a second person in the car who turns on ignition and gas: this would depend on the model concerned.
2. The woman turns a starting handle when sitting in the car, thus no need for a manual winding up. In this case, the "vigorous couple of turns" certainly would refer to the engine only.

Which one's correct only could tell context.


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## *cat*

sokol, thank you very much.



> Which one's correct only could tell context.


Ok, here's the whole context:

_They emerged from the station and Maude led the way to a dilapidated car of almost fabulous antiquity.
"Sorry about our old rattletrap," she said. "We've wanted a new car for years, but really we couldn't afford it. This has had a new engine twice - and these old cars really stand up to a lot of hard work.
"I hope it will start," she added. "Sometimes one has to wind it."
She pressed the starter several times but only a meaningless whirr resulted. Mr. Entwhistle, who had never wound a car in his life, felt rather apprehensive, but Maude herself descended, inserted the starting handle and with a vigorous couple of turns woke the motor to life. It was fortunate, Mr. Entwhistle reflected, that Maude was such a powerfully built woman.

_So, what do you say?

Ima morda še kdo drug kak predlog glede slovenskih izrazov?


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## zigaramsak

To je to (točka 1 od sokola). Po mojem je bil spaček (Citroën 2CV) eden zadnjih avtov pri nas, ki se ga je še dalo tako vžgati. Spredaj je bila luknja, v katero je bilo možno vtakniti "vinto" in jo vrteti, dokler ni vžgal. Tako  kot kosilnico, samo da je tam treba potegniti vrv.

Ob tem sem se spomnil na vinto in v enem slovarju slovenskega knjižnega jezika našel tole:
vinta -e ž (i) nižje pog. 1. (zaganjalna) roèica: priviti vinto na os; z vinto goniti, vrteti stroj / z vinto zaganjati motor avtomobila - z zaganjalno kljuko 2. vitel: potegniti drevo z vinto 3. dvigalka: z vinto dvigniti del avtomobila • nižje pog. vinta za lesne svedre vrtalo

Sokol, super slovenščina!


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## *cat*

Najlepše hvala vsem! Zelo ste mi pomagali.


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## sokol

zigaramsak said:


> To je to (točka 1 od sokola).



Seveda lahko potvrdem - tako je!


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