# to groom children



## ayupshiplad

*Moderator note: *thread split to create this one, see To groom a horse



Bonsoir à tous 

Je suis en train d'écrire une dissertation sur la pédophilie et je me demandais comment dirait-on le mot 'groom' en français, dans le sens que les pédophiles 'groom' les enfants- c'est-à-dire qu'ils essaient de les conforter, de porter intérêt à leur personne etc pour qu'un enfant leur fasse confiance. Je me suis creusée la cervelle mais je n'arrive toujours pas à rappler une phrase! 

Est-ce que quelqu'un pourrait m'aider?

Merci d'avance!


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## Suehil

How about 'préparer' ???


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## ayupshiplad

Ah that is an expression which seems appropriately disgusting! Could I just take the easy way out and say manipuler?


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## Suehil

The trouble with 'manipuler' (or manipulate - same thing in this context) is that it doesn't imply the notion of 'getting someone ready' that 'groom' does.  Maybe a French native can help us - I'm sure a similar concept must exist in France.


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## ayupshiplad

Yes, that is very true. I've just asked 3 of my French native friends and the best they could come up with was manipuler...I wouldn't think such an expression was so rare? I think I may go for préparer, that never would have come to me, so thank you very much!


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## Biroto

Tu ne peux pas utiliser "préparer" comme ça: on prépare quelqu'un à quelques chose. Et "préparer" n'a pas cette notion de manipuler.
Par contre moi je dirai "abuser moralement".


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## Agate

Vous ne voulez pas utiliser "dresser"?  Il me semble mieux que les autres choix.


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## RuK

The best is _dresser_.


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## Biroto

"dresser" ? Dans le sens "dresser quelqu'un contre quelqu'un d'autre", "monter quelqu'un contre quelqu'un d'autre"?


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## Agate

No, not in that sense. In the sense of "dresser un cheval " par example.
That's where "dressage" comes from.  "Dresser" has the idea of caring
about the recipient and wanting to build up confidence to get the result
one is seeking.


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## Biroto

Not really actually. "dresser" means "éduquer" (educate) but we usually use this verb when speaking about an animal. you can't use the verb "dresser" for people


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## Agate

Given the despicable context I think that the exception is valid and that
"dresser" is still the best word here.  Otherwise, what would you suggest?


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## Biroto

Do you have an example in my mind of a sentence with the verb "dresser" with the meaning you're thinking of ?
Because I really don't see how it could be used with  "enfants" and I also really don't see how it could mean "to groom"


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## marcolo

I think that "dresser" is good, okay it is used only for animals, and what the pedophiles do, is disgusting, so it is not a bad idea to use that verb. In the same way, I like "préparer" !

What do you think about "*amadouer*", which would transmit the idea that they try to obtain the confidence of children ? I have been thinking about "*initier*", which conveys the idea that they are educating children about sexual pleasures. I feel that "groom" is a combination of the both verbs, so to translate 

The pedophiles groom children

You could say

Les pédophiles amadouent et initient des enfants


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## Biroto

amadouer is appropriate and good 
yet "initier" isn't.
"initier" isn't correct here because it suggests that it is a good thing.

But I also really don't see how you want to use the verb "préparer" for that meaning.


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## marcolo

You could say :

Les pédophiles préparent/dressent les enfants à devenir leurs jouets sexuels

What's the problem with those verbs ?


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## Biroto

ahhh ok !!
Then I see what you mean! "dresser" would be better than "préparer" here.

Indeed "préparer" also suggest that it is a good thing : "péparer quelqu'un" means "to have someone ready".

"dresser" is ok , but it really suggests that children aren't humans, which is weird. What you want (I think) to say, is that these children are treated as animals, not that they are.


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## ayupshiplad

marcolo said:


> What do you think about "*amadouer*", which would transmit the idea that they try to obtain the confidence of children ? I have been thinking about "*initier*", which conveys the idea that they are educating children about sexual pleasures.


 
But paedophiles don't always try to educate them in sexual pleasures? Especially with younger children I think, as they would be more likely to sense that something is wrong, whereas if they just act as a friend then they are more likely to gain the child's trust. 

So after a bit of debate  I take it amadouer would be the best verb, followed by dresser? 

Whilst the time that I had to write an essay on this has long passed I appreciate your replies!


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## Bobitch

Et pourquoi pas "enjôler", qui est par définition le fait de "  Flatter, attirer par de belles paroles, par des manières engageantes dans le but d'obtenir un avantage personnel." 

Le problème (si c'en est un) est que l'anglais fonctionne sur le plan de l'image et le français sur celui de l'entendement. Avec "groom", l'image est nette, mais je pense qu'en français il faudrait accompagner le verbe d'un complément pour arriver à la même image. Je suis désolé, mais avec "dresser" tout court, je ne vois pas du tout la même chose qu'avec "groom"... Peut-être quelque chose comme "enjôler à mauvaises fins"...(that's the term I used for the French translation of a parental control software).


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## pifnane

pourquoi ne pas developper : 
"les préparent comme des chevaux pour la course ou des vierges pour le harem"
la phrase est plus longue mais c'est normal dans le sens Anglais vers Français


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## ayupshiplad

Merci pour ces nouvelles réponses, j'ai cessé d'écrire cette disserte il y a plusieurs mois, mais il est toujours bon de savoir une traduction parfaite d'une expression évidemment difficile à traduire!


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## jonasbabiak

J'aurais dit:
 "mettre en confiance"


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## Bobitch

A pifnane : Le coefficient de foisonnement est habituellement de 12 à 15 %...


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## MasterMax

another possibility

to *groom a child* = séduire un enfant

séduire = 
- plaire à qq et obenir amour ou faveurs en usant de son charme
- conquérir l'admiration, l'estime, la confiance
- attirer de façon irrésistible en parlant d'une chose
- (péjoratif) détourner une femme du droit chemin


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## Sbonke

My suggestion: Conditionner

- Mettre en condition
- Susciter un comportement nouveau, de déterminer des attitudes, des comportements réflexes par l'éducation, la publicité, la propagande


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## elmingo

Je rouvre ce fil pour suggérer "gagner la confiance", bien qu' "amadouer" me semble bien fonctionner aussi.


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## Kecha

I always stumble accross "groom" in articles about sexual abuse. I'm never sure how to call it in French.
I think "dresser" suggested here isn't right.

Some examples:

She was groomed, raped and passed between a group of older men from the age of 12.
Arrests made in sex grooming scandal.
Children are being abused an hour after being groomed online.
 Twenty two people have been arrested as part of a week-long crackdown on child grooming.

Some examples describe "luring" the victims.
It seems to be a crime of its own in US/UK but I don't think it is not identified as such in France. 

Something about the "repérage", "piégeage" of the potential victims? About being forced into the "réseau"?


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## Dogfever

It doesn't seem to me that _dresser_ really covers the manipulative nature of the crime unless the verb has taken on another meaning (of course _grooming _doesn't either - it has taken on a new meaning in this regard over the last 20 but especially the last 10 years)

See here for a full definition and discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming

It is a criminal offence in the UK.


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## Kecha

"préparer des enfants" sounds like tying their shoelaces, buttoning up their coats and sending them off to school ...

After being groomed online -> après avoir été préparé en ligne ? doesn't really make sense

The victim is befriended online then lured into a meeting, this is a predatory selection and a trap, far away from the sense of being made look good for a special day.

Somehow "draguer" is closer... "draguer des enfants" sure does sound like a crime...
(edit) I realise "séduire" had been suggested before...


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## Dogfever

I have seen _cyber-séduction_ used but the problem is that grooming isn't just an online activity when used in a BE context. I have just had a quick search and _manœvres de séduction_ is also used.

Addendum: also "le grooming" which is a horrible anglicism but there you go. (And also might suggest that the terminology isn't settled yet)


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## Kecha

It is not necessary online, but it was the one example where "préparer" worked the less. 

In an example I found, the judge is criticized for considering the victim had groomed the man accused of abusing her, so it's really really not about "prepping" anyone.



> There is no evidence you groomed her. If anything it was she who  groomed you.


So I guess séduire/manipuler will work better in most cases.


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## Dogfever

Yes. Grooming in this sense is generally used specifically to refer to the criminal act of "seducing" a child but, disregarding the criminal element, it is similar in nature to seduction. The judge has just used grooming in the second instance for emphasis.


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## guillaumedemanzac

Kecha said:


> In an example I found, the judge is criticized for considering the victim had groomed the man accused of abusing her, so it's really really not about "prepping" anyone.



Yes, in that case the man was guilty of sexual activity with a young girl - under 16 is illegal in UK and is legally rape as the girl is not old enough to give consent. The judge's mistake was to have sympathy with the man who was clearly guilty (whether she consented or not). The judge went on to say that the girl was obviously a Lolita who was looking for an older man and that, rather than the man searching the internet and grooming the young girl with messages, innuendos, suggestions, it was the girl who equally groomed him.  The second "groomed" is actually incorrect as it is the older pedophile who does the grooming to chat up and contact and arrange meetings with under-age girls. The judge should have said that she played an equal part in allowing herself to be seduced by this older man.  Similar to a few judges in the bad old days who said that the rape victim had "asked for it" by wearing short dresses and very low necklines.


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## Dogfever

In the trial that people are referring to the man was not found guilty of rape of a minor. He was found guilty of the more minor (in law) offence of having sex with someone under the age of 18 over whom he had a duty of care. Some good, balanced reporting here: http://ukcriminallawblog.com/2015/0...ts-suspended-sentence-ag-already-stepping-in/


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## Quantz

initier (cf. délit d'initié)


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## Kecha

What? _Délit d'initié_ is insider trading, what does it have to do with pedophilia?


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## mancunienne girl

Having read all this thread and googled a few examples, "amadouer" seems the closest of all the suggetions thus far....


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