# Help in translations



## giacinta

I don't know if this has been suggested before but one of the problems I find in this otherwise very helpful site is the need to always assign a title to the post.  I understand entirely the reason for this.  This is not my point.  I would like it if one could post *an entire paragraph (or 2)*  (accompanied by an attempted translation) and request the mother tongues to review and correct.  If, and only if, there are questions remaining in the mind of the person who sought the translation, then these could form the basis of *new separate posts*, clearly identified and titled,(after, of course, checking the WR data base first to exclude earlier discussions on the same topic).  

To re-iterate:  The first post would be seeking a translation correction only.  This could be responded to by others using colours to indicate recommended changes.  The original poster could then review these corrections and choose whether to follow it up with individually identified and titled posts.

It seems that in this way, there would not always be a need to provide context (the lack of which often reduces the value of the posts)

The new folder could be entitled "Translation Help" or something similar.  I would personally get a great deal from such a folder.  Then, anyone reading the text to be translated could initiate fresh posts arising out of any questions to which they seek an answer.

Just a suggestion...Otherwise I really don't know how one can get assistance in this respect.  If one posts a single sentence, for example, there are often two discrete issues that arise (even if the original poster was only seeking help in respect of one of them and unwittingly gave rise to the second) the title of the post doesn't always reflect both problems and others miss out.  I know the moderators try to address this.  But if the text is more than one sentence the difficulties for them become immense.

As I say, this is just a suggestion and is not meant in any way to be a criticism,

Giacinta


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## jann

Hello Giacinta, 

Thank you for your suggestion.  I understand that there can come a point where it would be most helpful to have someone proofread your work.  In particular, advanced language learners who have a good mastery of vocabulary and grammar would be likely to benefit, because paragraph-level proofreading would give them a chance to improve their style and general written expression in a way they could not if they worked only at the sentence level.

However, WordReference does not intended to be a forum for translation and proofreading of extended texts.  On the whole, our forums are organized as an interactive reference to supplement the dictionaries we all depend on as language learners.  This means we need single-topic threads that can be indexed under a given keyword or phrase.  Our grammar forums (such as _Gramática_ in Spanish-English) give users an opportunity to ask for help on grammar and syntax questions that aren't really covered in a standard dictionary.  Grammar questions are also welcomed in the main pages of language forums that don't have a separate grammar section... but we still need _single-topic_ threads. 

As you can imagine, if we allowed deep proofreading, we would quickly find ourselves in a chaotic discussion of many different grammar rules, a few questions of style and usage, and a number of vocabulary choices.  It would be difficult for future users to find anything helpful in such a disorganized thread, and our members would tire of repeating the same explanations of certain common grammar difficulties.  Some people would want only the corrections, without caring about the explanations... and they would consequently learn little from the members who so kindly took the time to correct the entire text.

Not only that, we would have students cheating on their schoolwork, and people who need to hire a professional taking advantage of our members by asking for free translations of websites/commercial documents/etc.!

I do understand how a proofreading forum could help the sincere and dedicated language learners among us, but I hope you can see just how difficult (impossible) it would be to manage! 

Best, 
Jann
French-English Moderator


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## danielfranco

Also, once the most glaring typographical, orthographical, and grammatical errors have been parsed out, then the most contentious problem arises:
Who has the most accurate interpretation of the original text?

It may sound as if a Philosophy 101 class will suddenly land and claim the post in the name of Socrates -in other words, completely ridiculous- but I do translations for a living, and let me tell you, the disagreements between the editor and the translators have been known to reach several degrees of magnitude in the Richter Scale.

So, a beginner learner of the language in question would probably end up rent in pieces having all the esteemed translators roaming these forums pulling him every which way.

I think it would be very messy without having somebody to take a completely arbitrary decision as to which translation is truest. In the professional field, translators have to surrender in the end to the fact that the editor has the final word, the red pencil, and the blue pen.

Or so it seems to me...


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## giacinta

The fears you express happen every day on the forum I participate in--a single phrase will be analysed uphill and downdale--but so what?  What difference a longer tract.  There is no one single correct translation of anything.  Nobody is seeking that in my experience.  

I personally don't care if people cheat on their homework or get free responses to dubbing translations of US sitcoms for which they get paid.  Nobody HAS to answer.

I personally get more out of a paragraph being posted (with the poster attempting a translation) than a single phrase with no context.  If you have a separate sub-forum for such translations, those who object don't have to open it.

I would --and I would love to "have a go" at translating them too--using all the tools available (different fonts, colours etc).  And then I could sit back and await the responses of others.

Nobody seems to agree with me however.

Giacinta


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## stella_maris_74

giacinta said:


> I personally don't care if people cheat on their homework or get free responses to dubbing translations of US sitcoms for which they get paid. Nobody HAS to answer.


 
 But somebody always does 
 I think it's self-evident why helping students cheat or would-be professionals misrepresent their competence in front of their employers is wrong - this subject has been debated several times already but appearantly we aren't all of the same opinion here.
But please note that translators are professionals that do that for a living, and often spent a great deal of their time striving to reach a high level of competence so as to make themselves acknowledged as professionals and to justify the fees they require for their work and skills.
Ok for the occasional help to f.i. fellow colleagues struggling on that single impossible phrase, but should this become a habit, should this forum provide a free translations/proofreading/interpretation service (because this is what the forum would become) it would be in my opinion unfair competition and also highly disrespectful of those who live from this work.
Students only need to study more if they want to score high. Would-be translators only need to research, study and practice more if they want to gain a higher level of competence. People who need their commercial stuff translated just need to hire a professional and pay for the service. It's as simple as that 

Just my two cents.

Ciao 

dani


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## gypsykatt1311

there are diverses uses in this forum...
yes or yes???


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## Jana337

gypsykatt1311 said:


> there are diverses uses in this forum...
> yes or yes???


Admittedly.


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## danielfranco

Jana337 said:


> gypsykatt1311 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are diverses uses in this forum...
> yes or yes???
> 
> 
> 
> Admittedly.
Click to expand...


However, apparently, neither clearly nor obviously.


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## gypsykatt1311

Daniel .... are making this...   personal????


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## danielfranco

How can I?
What I mean is that I don't understand. And I like adverbs.
So. Please elaborate on your original message, because it's not obvious to me. Kind of slow on the uptake sometimes, you know?
Thanks.


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## JamesM

Every forum that hopes to survive must have some groundrules.  Forum sites are not "majority rule".  They are, at their best, benevolent dictatorships.  

Any forum that has a "comments and suggestions" area is, in my opinion, leaning heavily towards the "benevolent" side of dictatorship.  Nevertheless, it is the forum founder's right to determine the definition of acceptable participation and uses of the site.  

This is one of the most active sites I have ever participated in.  Obviously, something about the structure here is working.  

As for correcting homework or performing free translation services, I can imagine that the board would be swamped with requests for these services in short order.  To me, the rule makes perfect sense, for pragmatic as well as ethical reasons.


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