# 的 - 你是什么时候到北京的？



## linguist786

_ni shi shénme shíhou dao Beijing de?_

_= When are you arriving in Beijing?_

Can anyone explain the use of "de" in that sentence? What is its function? I don't really understand.


----------



## daoxunchang

This de tells you that ni is already in Beijing. Without it, you are asking about the due time when ni is to arrive in Beijing.
e.g. zhe/zhei shi shen me shi hou kai shi de这是什么时候开始的? --- When "did" it started?
zhe/zhei (shi) shen me shi hou kai shi这（是）什么时候开始? --- When will it start?


----------



## linguist786

daoxunchang said:
			
		

> This de tells you that ni is already in Beijing. Without it, you are asking about the due time when ni is to arrive in Beijing.
> e.g. zhe/zhei shi shen me shi hou kai shi de这是什么时候开始的? --- When "did" it started?
> zhe/zhei (shi) shen me shi hou kai shi这（是）什么时候开始? --- When will it start?


 
Oh I see. So really, my translation should have "When did you arrive in Beijing?"?


----------



## daoxunchang

Oh my! Such mistake I made! Sorry!
Yes, your sentence means "did".


----------



## linguist786

daoxunchang said:


> Oh my! Such mistake I made! Sorry!
> Yes, your sentence means "did".


Don't worry  
So in a way, by putting the "de" at the end, it changes it into the past?

Also
Would this sentence make sense? If so, what does it mean?:

你是什么时候到北京了？


----------



## daoxunchang

linguist786 said:


> So in a way, by putting the "de" at the end, it changes it into the past?


Yes, that is, so far as I can get from my thinking hard. But I do not study Chinese, and this might very often make me, you know, unaware of what I use. 



> Also
> Would this sentence make sense? If so, what does it mean?:
> 你是什么时候到北京了？


I think a hearer in a true situation can make sense of it, but I don't think it's grammatically correct.

Edit: you can say:你什么时候到北京来了?!(questioning tone+accent on 北京: for gladness with great surprise; questioning tone+accent on 什么: for angry questioning because the speaker is told his interlocutioner that he is in Beijing while he knows that's not true) 
or：你什么时候到北京来了的？for surprise, gladness, or both


----------



## linguist786

daoxunchang said:


> Yes, that is, so far as I can get from my thinking hard. But I do not study Chinese, and this might very often make me, you know, unaware of what I use.
> 
> 
> I think a hearer in a true situation can make sense of it, but I don't think it's grammatically correct.
> 
> Edit: you can say:你什么时候到北京来了?!(questioning tone+accent on 北京: for gladness with great surprise; questioning tone+accent on 什么: for angry questioning because the speaker is told his interlocutioner that he is in Beijing while he knows that's not true)
> or：你什么时候到北京来了的？for surprise, gladness, or both


谢谢到寻常！


----------



## Lugubert

linguist786 said:


> _ni shi shénme shíhou dao Beijing de?_
> 
> _= When are you arriving in Beijing?_
> 
> Can anyone explain the use of "de" in that sentence? What is its function? I don't really understand.


The key point is that not just _de_ but _shi ... de_ is highlighting the circumstances of past events. "Literally" translated, it may get slightly absurd: Wo shi xiawu mai piao de "I'm a ticket bought this afternoon" meaning 'It was in the afternoon that I bought the tickets.' (Example from T'ung, Pollard: _Colloquial Chinese _(Routledge)).


----------



## linguist786

Thanks, Lugubert. An opinion of another learner is always useful!
I understand it better now. Thanks again.


----------



## Stavros

I will basically say the same thing as the previous user, but for me it was more clear put this way.

I have learned this as the "shi.... de" structure, used to emphasize. It is true though that it can only refer to the past

e.g. 这件衣服我是在南京东路买的 I bought these clothes in Nanjing Dong Lu


----------



## Tatzingo

Stavros said:


> I will basically say the same thing as the previous user, but for me it was more clear put this way.
> 
> I have learned this as the "shi.... de" structure, used to emphasize. It is true though that it can only refer to the past
> 
> e.g. 这件衣服我是在南京东路买的 I bought these clothes in Nanjing Dong Lu



The last post was from 11 March 2007. I'm guessing the OP already has an answer. 

Tatz.


----------



## Stavros

so? the forum is also useful for other people browsing old topics


----------



## Tatzingo

Stavros said:


> so? the forum is also useful for other people browsing old topics



It was just the way you phrased it - you seemed to be providing clarification to the OP. I just wondered whether you realised that the question was asked so many years ago and that the OP probably doesnt require any further clarification now.

But yep, future reference is useful i guess.


----------

