# FR: Did they give it (to you)?



## BlueGrass

*"Ont ils donné" or "Ont ils donnés"?

*Hello, 
My subject line sums up my question.  Which of the two would be correct.  And if anyone can enlighten me as to why, that would be great too.  
Many thanks, 
Lorenzo


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## ce que est est

*Ont-ils donné (presumably qqc)?

The past participle only changes to agree with a direct object or in the reflexive case when the subject is the object of the word.
*


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## berndf

... for verbs which construct the passé composé with _avoir_. For those which construct it with _être_ the past participle agrees with the subject: "Ils sont venu*s*"


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## melu85

see related thread:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=575120


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## mnewcomb71

and the do precedes the pp.


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## Midtiti

Dans cette phrase, comme on utilise l'auxiliaire avoir, et comme il n'y a pas de COD avant cet auxiliaire, _donné_ ne s'accorde pas.
Mais s'il y avait un complément d'objet* direct* (repris par Les ou L' dans les exemples) *précédant le verbe *le participe s'accorderait avec ce COD :
_(Les papiers) Les ont-ils donnés ?_
_(Les instructions) Les ont-ils données ?_
_(La réponse) L'ont-ils donnée ?_
_(Le chocolat) L'ont-ils donné ?_

Voilà voilà.


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## Hannah95

So if you wanted to say 'did they give it to you?', would it be:
*
Vous l'ont-ils donn**é ?
*or
*Le vous ont-ils **donn**é ?*

Sorry to bump such an old thread!


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## Skorpions

It would be : Vous l'ont-ils donné?
Or : Vous l'ont-ils donnée? (if the " l' " is referring to a feminine)


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## Hannah95

So why would the indirect object ('vous') come before the direct object ('le') when normally it's the other way round?


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## Skorpions

The indirect object comes first almost every time when you use pronouns : " Je vous *le* dis (je dis ça à vous), je te *le* donne (je donne ça à toi), je te *l'*ai prêté (je prête ça à toi) ". But the direct object comes first after the verb, when you do not use pronouns: j'ai prêté *un stylo* à Thomas.

When would you put the direct object first?


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## atcheque

Bonjour,

mais _Je *le *lui donne_ ; _Je *le *leur donne._


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## Hannah95

Oh, okay! I thought you placed the direct object before the indirect object almost every time. For example:
*
Je la lui montre *(Je montre la carte à mon oncle)
*
La lui as-tu donn**ée? *(As-tu donné la permisson à Pierre?)
​
But I'm probably wrong! :S


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## Skorpions

Merci je n'arrivais pas à trouver de cas où c'était le COI après :/

No, your examples are right. I didn't find any example, i'm so sorry. But you're right : when you use lui/leur, you put the COD first, the third person is the exception 
Here is the rule : http://www.laits.utexas.edu/tex/gr/pro9.html#direct
" Sometimes there will be both a direct and an indirect object pronoun in the same sentence. The direct object pronoun is usually closest to the verb of which it is the object. However, the order of direct / indirect object pronouns is reversed in the third person singular and third person plural (le lui, le leur, etc.). In this case, the indirect object is closest to the verb. "


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## Hannah95

Surely the 'lui' (à mon oncle) is the indirect object? Am I wrong?


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## Skorpions

Did you see what I added at my previous post?  I ask because I made a modification, so I'm not sure ^^'

Yes, "lui" is the indirect object. And in this case, you place it after the direct object.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Hannah95 said:


> So why would the indirect object ('vous') come before the direct object ('le') when normally it's the other way round?



  Its a fact that the indirect object comes after the direct object when nouns are concerned and consequently pronouns that may replace them :

  I_l a donné le livre à un camarade _  >   _Il le lui a donné_.

It's different when 1st. and 2nd. personal pronouns referring to the speaker and the interlocuter are used  :

_Il m'a donné un livre _( I can't say :    *_ Il a donné un livre à moi_ ) > _Il me l'a donné_.

It's the same with _te / nous / vous_ that have to be put before _le / la / les_.


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## Hannah95

Oh, I see now! Thanks so much for your help!

So one last question, it's:
*
Ne me les donnez pas 

*But:

*Ne les lui donnez pas *

???


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