# Arabic/Persian enteha انتها - انتهى (end)



## CyrusSH

A Persian website claims many Arabic-origin words in Persian have actually Iranian origin, one of them is _enteha_ which is said to have the same origin of English _end_ and is cognate to Sanskrit _antya_, could it be true?


----------



## rayloom

Can you put a link to the website?


----------



## CyrusSH

مجید روهنده - ریشه، واژه، کلمه، لغت، انتها، انت، end، منتهی، منتها، نهایت


----------



## rayloom

Thank you.
From what I can gather, مجيد روهنده doesn't explain the process in which انتها ultimately goes through. 
Are there other incidences of the ya ending in other Iranic languages where in Persian it corresponds with ha? Or is ها pronounced ya in Persian?
(I honestly don't know)
He lists نهاية and منتهى and acknowledges them as related, even though both have an Arabic morphology, like انتهاء.
If we assume انتها is Iranian in origin, how would we explain نهاية and منتهى?


----------



## CyrusSH

rayloom said:


> Thank you.
> From what I can gather, مجيد روهنده doesn't explain the process in which انتها ultimately goes through.
> Are there other incidences of the ya ending in other Iranic languages where in Persian it corresponds with ha? Or is ها pronounced ya in Persian?
> (I honestly don't know)
> He lists نهاية and منتهى and acknowledges them as related, even though both have an Arabic morphology, like انتهاء.
> If we assume انتها is Iranian in origin, how would we explain نهاية and منتهى?



I think he actually means انتهاء is Arabicized form of a Persian word, there are also some other Persian words which entered into Arabic and then triliteral/quadriliteral roots were derived from them, like هندسه: هندسه - Wiktionary


----------



## PersoLatin

CyrusSH said:


> هندسه: هندسه - Wiktionary


مهندس is a commonly used derivation from هندسه ultimately from Persian اندازه‏/andâzé

Also رزق comes from Persian روزی/daily allowance (MP: ruzig), you now have رازق ,ارزاق etc.


----------



## rayloom

So you mean forms such as منتهى and نهاية were later reborrowed into Persian?
Also the root nhy seems to have several cognates in North Arabian, South Arabian, Egyptian (protect) and Chadic (end). The Starling database compiled by Militarev traces it to Proto-Afro-Asiatic.


----------



## CyrusSH

rayloom said:


> So you mean forms such as منتهى and نهاية were later reborrowed into Persian?



Yes and انتهاء itself, of course if there is not a Semitic origin for this word.


----------



## PersoLatin

rayloom said:


> So you mean forms such as منتهى and نهاية were later reborrowed into Persian?


As رزق ,رازق ,ارزاق have been re-borrowed, منتهى and نهاية could also have been.

I have no opinion on the question in the OP, although Sanskrit _antya,_ as the source, does makes sense.


----------



## rayloom

PersoLatin said:


> As رزق ,رازق ,ارزاق have been re-borrowed, منتهى and نهاية could also have been.
> 
> I have no opinion on the question in the OP, although Sanskrit _antya,_ as the source, does makes sense.



In this case, how would you explain how the Sanskrit word reached Arabic? 
Also one would expect to see a trace of the word before it reaches Arabic.


----------



## PersoLatin

^ I should have said: ".....although Sanskrit _antya,_ as the source, does makes sense, but I don't know enough about it". I was trying to say that there's precedent for this type of re-borrowing.


rayloom said:


> In this case, how would you explain how the Sanskrit word reached Arabic?
> Also one would expect to see a trace of the word before it reaches Arabic.


That's a question for the originator.


----------



## CyrusSH

The Persian word for "end" is _andjam_ but I don't think this word could be changed to Arabic انتهاء.


----------



## PersoLatin

CyrusSH said:


> The Persian word for "end" is _andjam_


Where does the /d/ in _an*d*jam_ come from? There's no /d/ in MP _end,_ hanjām (NP anjām).


----------



## CyrusSH

PersoLatin said:


> Where does the /d/ in _an*d*jam_ come from? There's no /d/ in MP _end,_ hanjām (NP anjām).



Persian/Arabic ج is usually shown as _dj_ because its different pronunciation with English _j_.


----------



## PersoLatin

CyrusSH said:


> Persian/Arabic ج is usually shown as _dj_ because its different pronunciation with English _j_


I know about this convention, it may be useful in some situations, although I've never found one, but in this thread it adds no value.


----------



## I.K.S.

In lisan   لسان العرب
*النَّهْنَهَةُ :*الكَفُّ تقول نَهْنَهْتُ فلاناً إذا زجرته فَتَنَهْنَهَ أَي كففته
*النَّهْنَهَةُ  *= to stop ,to put end to something .
It adds ;والأَصل في نَهْنَهَ* نَهْهَهَ بثلاث هاءَات* وإِنما أَبدلوا من الهاء الوسطى نوناً للفرق بين فَعْلَلَ وفَعَّلَ وزادوا النون من بين الحروف لأَن في الكلمة نوناً
Which leads me to believe the original root is *ن_ ه _ه * or *ن _ هّ* ,from which the verb نَهَيَ is derived .
About this latter  Ibn Faris  said in his book مقاييس اللغة,chapter ;[بَابُ النُّونِ وَالْهَاءِ وَمَا يَثْلُثُهُمَا]
(*نَهَيَ*) : النُّونُ وَالْهَاءُ وَالْيَاءُ أَصْلٌ صَحِيحٌ يَدُلُّ عَلَى غَايَةٍ وَبُلُوغٍ. وَمِنْهُ أَنْهَيْتُ إِلَيْهِ الْخَبَرَ: بَلَّغْتُهُ إِيَّاهُ. وَنِهَايَةُ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ  :غَايَتُهُ. وَمِنْهُ نَهَيْتُهُ عَنْهُ، وَذَلِكَ لِأَمْرٍ يَفْعَلُهُ
وَ*النِّهْيُ: الْغَدِيرُ*، لِأَنَّ الْمَاءَ يُنْتَهَى إِلَيْهِ. وَ*تَنْهِيَةُ الْوَادِي*: حَيْثُ يَنْتَهِي إِلَيْهِ السُّيُولُ
BTW, Ibn Faris, from the late 10th century ,is renowned for its linguistic skills and knowledge and is originally from Qazvin and he used to speak persian too with a Qazvini accent .so one may wonder why has he left out such significant detail ?


----------

