# like+(for)+object+to verb



## jonquiliser

Hi,

a little doubt: to say something like "I don't like [the fact] that they see me"  (i.e. I'd rather they don't see me), I'd usually say "I don't like for them to see me". But now I started thinking about it, it seems a strange construction. Is it ok? Correct (even if not formal)? Or is it just plain wrong? 

Thank you


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## The Scrivener

jonquiliser said:


> Hi,
> 
> a little doubt: to say something like "I don't like [the fact] that they see me" (i.e. I'd rather they don't see me), I'd usually say "I don't like for them to see me". But now I started thinking about it, it seems a strange construction. Is it ok? Correct (even if not formal)? Or is it just plain wrong?
> 
> Thank you


 
Hi,

In BrEng we would say, "I don't like them to see me."  Perhaps your example is an Americanism.


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## tepatria

The construction is not incorrect, but a little clumsy in English. I would say *I'd rather not be seen by them*, or *I'd rather they didn't see me*.


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## Thomas Tompion

jonquiliser said:


> Hi,
> 
> a little doubt: to say something like "I don't like [the fact] that they see me" (i.e. I'd rather they don't see me), I'd usually say "I don't like for them to see me". But now I started thinking about it, it seems a strange construction. Is it ok? Correct (even if not formal)? Or is it just plain wrong?
> 
> Thank you


 
In BE we'd say I don't like them to see me, or I don't like their seeing me, or I don't like them seeing me.

I don't like *for* them to see me sounds AE to my ear.  I wonder if they say it in America (?).  If not, I apologize.


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## jonquiliser

Thank you all! So good to get to ask here and in no more than a few minutes, I already have answers to my questions!


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## nichec

Thomas Tompion said:


> In BE we'd say I don't like them to see me, or I don't like their seeing me, or I don't like them seeing me.
> 
> I don't like *for* them to see me sounds AE to my ear. I wonder if they say it in America (?). If not, I apologize.


 
We need an AE vote here.

I don't think the sentence sounds nature in AE. I usually go:
--I don't like them/their seeing me.
Or
--I don't like it when they see me.
Or
--I don't like the fact that they see me.

And, oh, don't apologize to me, dear *TT *


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## Packard

The original construction invites difficulty. Turn the sentence around and it is easy:

I prefer that I not be seen.

*I'd rather not be seen.*

I'd rather not be photographed.

I hate being photographed.


*"Everytime I'm photographed with Liv Tyler, someone says, 'Oh, look. There's Packard.' So I'd rather not be seen."*


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## expenseroso

I wouldn't use it in writing, but your original sentence ("I just don't like for them to see me") sounds at least as natural in spoken AE as the (grammatically preferably) suggestions posted here.


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## nichec

Packard said:


> The original construction invites difficulty. Turn the sentence around and it is easy:
> 
> I prefer that I not be seen.
> 
> *I'd rather not be seen.*
> 
> I'd rather not be photographed.
> 
> I hate being photographed.
> 
> 
> *"Everytime I'm photographed with Liv Tyler, someone says, 'Oh, look. There's Packard.' So I'd rather not be seen."*


 
You forgot this one:
--I prefer not to be seen.


Edit: What's so wrong with Liv anyway?


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## Packard

nichec said:


> You forgot this one:
> --I prefer not to be seen.
> 
> 
> Edit: What's so wrong with Liv anyway?


 

Yes, I forgot that one.  But it is an easier construction regardless. 

Whenever I find myself struggling with a sentence, I quickly discard it and start anew.  A fresh approach will usually be better than trying to make an awkward construction work.

(There is nothing wrong with Liv.  She just does not like it when I get all the attention.)


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## x - calibur

Packard has some good possibilities.

Most people would simply say, "I dont want them to see me".


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## Thomas Tompion

Packard said:


> The original construction invites difficulty. Turn the sentence around and it is easy:
> 
> I prefer that I not be seen.
> 
> *I'd rather not be seen.*
> 
> I'd rather not be photographed.
> 
> I hate being photographed.
> 
> 
> *"Everytime I'm photographed with Liv Tyler, someone says, 'Oh, look. There's Packard.' So I'd rather not be seen."*


 
I don't think many people using BE would say 'I prefer that I not be seen'.  'I prefer not to be seen' would be the more usual formula.


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## Packard

Thomas Tompion said:


> I don't think many people using BE would say 'I prefer that I not be seen'. 'I prefer not to be seen' would be the more usual formula.


 

In AE also.  I should have written the more common phrasing.


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## bamboo--tw

Steven Spielberg said, "Well, we're making another Indiana Jones movie, and I'd like* for* you to be in it."
My heart went nuts. I've had anxiety attacks before, but I've never felt that--where you can't breathe and your stomaches tenses.


Hi,
In formal English, should we delete "for" in the above? If not, what does it mean? Thanks.


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## Blootix

I would delete the "for."  In conversation, I have heard people say "I'd like for you to help me" or "I'd like for you to come with me."  But I never do.


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## bamboo--tw

Thanks, Blootix.
Got it.


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## ryooster

Dear all

I saw the following sentence in the website for English Learning.
-If you would like *for* them to repeat their name, you can say, "What was that again?"

In the above question do we need preposition "for"? or we can omit?

When I look up dictionary I can find the following usage.
[from Longman Dictionary]
*would like somebody to do something*






He would like us all to be at the meeting.

Thanks in advance
ryooster


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## Copyright

You can omit the "for" -- in fact I nearly always would.


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## Hermione Golightly

I have the notion that using 'for' after 'like' is an American usage because I heard it very often there. I fear it is creeping into UK speech habits but I have never heard it used by anybody who's considered well spoken and educated. I can't judge how acceptable it is to Americans in speech at any level. Not very, from what Copyright says. Are there some occasions it is used more often than others ? With a very polite request perhaps? Or a request that isn't  really a request such as "I would like for you to come here this minute"

The two European foreign languages I know require a word after 'like' to introduce the clause that follows, but not UK English where it is plain wrong.

I would like you to speak correctly/ to come here immediately/to be kinder to me.


HG


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## Thomas Tompion

We have several similar threads on this. Here is best I could find immediately.

I would never say _I would like for them to repeat their name_. I'm used to _I would like them to repeat their name._


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## Copyright

Hermione Golightly said:


> Or a request that isn't  really a request such as "I would like for you to come here this minute"



Now that's an interesting observation. I can certainly hear myself saying to a mobile phone nuisance sitting next to me on the underground: "I would like for you to put that away... now."


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## jiamajia

I would like for you to correct your mistakes .

I would like you to correct your mistakes .

-----------------------------------------------

I know the second line is correct English. Is the first one good too? If yes, does it mean the same as the second one?

Thank you.


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## Thomas1

jiamajia said:


> I would like for you to correct your mistakes .
> 
> I would like you to correct your mistakes .
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> I know the second line is correct English. Is the first one good too? If yes, does it mean the same as the second one?
> 
> Thank you.


I would change the first sentence a little:
I would like to correct your mistakes for you.
Here it's me who's going to correct the mistakes and I'm going to do it for you.
I would like you to correct your mistakes.
Here it's you who's going to correct the mistakes (your own).


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## entangledbank

'For' in that position is used in non-standard dialects, but doesn't sound right in the standard language. A number of mental verbs have this construction:

I like/want/prefer/expect you to correct your mistakes.

Here, apparently, 'you' is the object of the main verb, not the subject of the infinitive, which would be marked with 'for'. However, there is some variability. This at least is also correct in the standard dialect:

I prefer for you to correct your mistakes.


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## norwolf

Hi, teachers.
I wonder what the difference between "would like for" and "would like" in such contexts is:
1* I would like Sir Alec to carry on. 
2* But I would like for you to do one thing if you would. 

Would you please tell me something about it?
Thank you very much.


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## Thomas Tompion

Hello Norwolf,

I would have said that 2. (I would like for you to do something) was AE.  I don't think we say it in BE and I didn't find an example of it in the BNC (the British Corpus).

I didn't find many examples of it in the COCA (the American Corpus) either, though I did find _Personally, I'd like for a judge to have made that determination_.

So 1. I don't think there's a difference in meaning.

2.  I wouldn't use _like for_ in BE.

3.  I'd ask AE advice before using it in AE.

_To like someone to do something _seems to be fine in both languages.


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## Parla

"Would like_ for_" is poor English on this side of the pond, too.


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## norwolf

I learnt the two in Longman Grammar of Spoken and Writen English. And I found 157 examples referring to "'d/would like for [n*]/[p*] to [v*]" in the American Corpus.


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## Loob

There are several previous threads on _like+for_, norwolf. I found the following by putting "like for" in the search box at the top of the page:

"I don't like for"
"I'd like you to do"  vs "I'd like for you to do"
I would like （for） you to correct your mistakes
I'd like for you to be in it
like+(for)+object+to verb


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## norwolf

Thank you so much. And I think some verbs of desire optionally take "for" before "to do", meaning the same thing. Isn't it?


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## wandle

In my view, 'I would like for you to do this' is not correct. It seems to me an unintegrated sentence.
However, some people do use it. But I believe that construction is much less common with other verbs of desiring.
I would avoid it in all cases.


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## Thomas Tompion

_To long_ does.  I can think of a lot which don't.

These are more phrasal verbs than verbs which take _for_, I say from a position of almost complete ignorance.


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## wandle

> _To long _does.


Here I would disagree. 
'To long' does not mean to desire but 'to long for' does. 'How I long for the holidays!'
Hence, when we say 'I long for the holidays to come' it is the same same construction as 'I want the holidays to come'.


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## Thomas Tompion

wandle said:


> [...]'To long' does not mean to desire but 'to long for' does.'



Here's a dictionary.com definition: _to have an earnest or strong desire or craving; yearn: to long for spring; to long to return home. 

_Yet you say it does not mean _to desire.

_So when Ophelia says to Hamlet _I have remembrances of yours t__hat I have longed long to redeliver_, she doesn't mean she's got things of his which she has long wished to return. 

I think it's important that we stick to observable fact here.


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## wandle

> to have an earnest or strong desire or craving;


There is a difference between 'to desire' and 'to have a desire'. The former takes a direct object, the latter does not.
The original question is about 'like' or similar verbs, which take a direct object. In these cases, 'for' is not required and is in my view incorrect. 
Verbs that do not take a direct object, such as 'long' and 'yearn' do need 'for'. This does not justify 'for' with a transitive verb.


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## Thomas Tompion

If you are saying that to long isn't transitive, I agree.  If you are saying that it doesn't mean to desire, which you did say, then I think this is a highly misleading error.  Maybe you meant something else.


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## wandle

As stated, 'to desire' is transitive, 'to long' is not. Their meanings therefore differ.


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## norwolf

Well, I found this in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary 8th just now:*~ for sb to do sth *( _NAmE _) _I'd like for us to work together. 

_​


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## wandle

> for sb to do sth ( NAmE ) I'd like for us to work together.


This says it is North American English. I would still avoid it.


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## norwolf

Transitive or intransitive verbs of desire, followed to-clauses, can occasionally change from one part of speech into the other.
To l_ong/aspire/yearn/agree/consent,_ an intransitive verb, can be followed an object, which must be a to-clause or a that-clause.
To _like/hate/intend/mean/wish_, a transitive verb, sometimes takes _for_ before to-clauses in some dialects.
I am thinking about something above.


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## Loob

norwolf said:


> To _like/hate/intend/mean/wish_, a transitive verb, sometimes takes _for_ before to-clauses in some dialects.


Excellent point, norwolf!

The "in some dialects" is crucial: I don't think (judging from previous threads) that "like for + to"  is standard in either BrE or AmE. It _is_ heard in some AmE varieties of English; but I don't think it's used in any BrE dialects.

PS. I expect someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong any minute now....


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## Man_from_India

Even I believe "like for" in the way it is used in the second sentence os original post is poor English. Not only that I was about to say it's wrong, but going through the previous posts I stopped myself.


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## Man_from_India

norwolf said:


> Well, I found this in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary 8th just now:*~ for sb to do sth *( _NAmE _) _I'd like for us to work together.
> 
> _​


It is not only AE but every English speaking people say this. But there should be a proper sentence to fit this phrase.
Example:
"It's difficult for him to do this task"


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## norwolf

I don’t like for bills to carry over into the next month.
I would like for you to circulate this through the members of the club.
I’d like for you to meet someone. This is Bill.
In addition, I would like for you to sweep the kitchen floor.
I don’t like for someone to order me about.
We would like for you to tie in and share your expertise.


Those are quoted from McGraw-Hill's Dictionary of American Idoms and Phrasal Verbs.
The writer seems to like the word for very much.


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## ribran

AmE can use "for" before an infinitive in all sorts of places where BrE can't. 

As regards this construction, I can only think of one case in which the "for" is obligatory (in all varieties of English, I believe): when the verb is directly followed by an adverbial phrase. (EDIT: On second thought, I guess it could be a number of other things.)

_I'd like very much for the boys and girls to work together. 
I'd like very much the boys and girls to work together. 
_


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## norwolf

If only the writer turned up to tell us what the difference is.


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## Loob

ribran said:


> AmE can use "for" before an infinitive in all sorts of places where BrE can't.
> 
> As regards this construction, I can only think of one case in which the "for" is obligatory (in all varieties of English, I believe): when the verb is directly followed by an adverbial phrase. (EDIT: On second thought, I guess it could be a number of other things.)
> 
> _I'd like very much for the boys and girls to work together.
> I'd like very much the boys and girls to work together.
> _


I think BrE would translate that (without the 'for') as _I'd really like the boys and girls to work together. 

_


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## ribran

Loob said:


> I think BrE would translate that (without the 'for') as _I'd really like the boys and girls to work together.
> 
> _



I know it's not the most natural example (I probably wouldn't say it that way, either), but it was the only special case I could think of.


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## Forero

It sounds natural to me and is standard where I live to use any form of direct object after _like_, including the "_for_ <subject> _to_ <predicate>" infinitive construction:

A: _I would like something._
B: _What would you like?_
A: _For them to repeat their name._

This construction indicates that a _to_ infinitive as direct object has a different subject than the verb of which it is the direct object:

_I prefer not to be seen._ = "I prefer that I not be seen."
_I prefer for him not to be seen._ = "I prefer that he not be seen."

_I don't like to see them._ ~= "I don't like my seeing them."
_I don't like for them to see me._ ~= "I don't like their seeing me."


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## panjandrum

The version with "for" is understandable to me, but not at all natural.


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## panjandrum

_<<There are now three current threads on this general topic.
All have been closed so that moderators can consider how best to deal with this proliferation of threads on a single topic. >>_


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