# All Slavic Languages: Thank you very much, but I don't understand either.



## elroy

Hello!

A Polish friend of mine asked me to translate a song for her.  I wasn't able to translate all of it, so I had a native speaker of the original language translate it.  I guess because song lyrics are so hard to translate without losing their effect or comprehensibility, I still don't really understand the song even with the translation.  So I sent my friend the translation and added, in the body of my e-mail, "Jeszcze nie rozumiem!" ("I still don't understand!").

The subject of her reply was "Dziękuję bardzo, ale też nie rozumiem" (Thank you very much, but I don't understand either).

Now, my question is about the structure of the sentence.  Personally, I would have said, "Dziękuję bardzo, ale *ja* też nie rozumiem" ("ja" = "I").  Yes, I know that "rozumiem" already tells me that the subject is "ja," but I still feel that "ja" should be used, for emphasis.  The sentence actually sounds incomplete without it, and I know I would use a subject pronoun in Spanish or Italian, two other languages in which subject pronouns are not normally used because the verb usually provides that information:

_Muchas gracias, pero *yo* tampoco comprendo.
Molte grazie, ma anch'*io* non capisco._

My question for Polish speakers: What do you think of the sentence without "ja"?  Does it sound natural in this context?  Does it have the proper degree of emphasis?  Would you use "ja"?  Would you say that using "ja" is necessary?

(Note: Yes, my friend is a native speaker of Polish, but this could have been a typo.)

And for speakers of other Slavic languages: What is it like in your language?  Would you use a subject pronoun in this context?

All comments would be much appreciated.


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## dudasd

In Serbian, it would need "ja" (may be omitted in the very construction, but in this sentence just wouldn't sound natural). Use of "ja" mostly depends on the correlation between two sub-sentences; here the word "either" practically demands use of "ja".

Mnogo (ti) hvala, ali ni ja ne razumem. 
(or Mnogo (ti) hvala, ali ne razumem ni ja.)

Mnogo ti hvala, mada/iako ni ja ne razumem. (Here it's closer to: "*though* I don't understand it either".)

Even with "takođe" (I guess it's the exact word for "też" - "too, as well") noun "ja" would be needed.


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## Ptak

In Russian it should be with "ja" too:
Спасибо, (но) я тоже не понимаю. (Dziękuję, ale ja też nie rozumiem)
я тоже = ja też
"Спасибо, но тоже не понимаю" (without "я") sounds bad.

Although in some context it can be without "ja", for example:

- В чем дело? (What's the problem?)
- Хм... Тоже не понимаю. (Hm... I don't understand either)


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## JakubikF

Saying "Dziękuję bardzo, ale też nie rozumiem" is absolutely correct and there is no need to say/write "ja" in this case. Nevertheless when you say "..., ale ja też nie rozumiem" you lay a bit more stress on the fact that YOU really don't understand it either. However the sentence with or without "ja" has in this case the same proper degree of emphasis. It depends on a way you stress each word in an informal talk too.


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## Jana337

I can live with both in Czech:
Děkuji pěkně, ale taky tomu nerozumím.
Děkuji pěkně, ale já tomu taky nerozumím. 

Děkuji pěkně, ale ani já tomu nerozumím.
This is an alternative where "já" is mandatory because "ani" directly negates it (like "not even I"). I prefer this one for style purposes.


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## JakubikF

What's more I can't even tell you which version of this sentence I would choose in my everyday talk. I think it would depend on my current mood but it still wouldn't change the idea of the expression very much.


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## (Infant)ry

Hvala ti veoma puno, ali ni ja ne razumijem.


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## JakubikF

Jana337 said:


> Děkuji pěkně, ale ani já tomu nerozumím.



It's interesting comparison. In Polish it is quite similar because you cannot say "..., ale nawet też nie rozumiem" (but even I don't understand it either) . In this case it must be said this way e.g. "..., ale nawet ja też (tego) nie rozumiem".


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## _Tasha_

In Slovenian you must use the subject pronoun _jaz_, otherwise the sentence is incomplete.

_Hvala lepa/Najlepša hvala, ampak/toda/vendar/a tudi *jaz* (je) ne razumem._


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## Thomas1

elroy said:


> [...]
> The subject of her reply was "Dziękuję bardzo, ale też nie rozumiem" (Thank you very much, but I don't understand either).
> 
> Now, my question is about the structure of the sentence. Personally, I would have said, "Dziękuję bardzo, ale *ja* też nie rozumiem" ("ja" = "I"). Yes, I know that "rozumiem" already tells me that the subject is "ja," but I still feel that "ja" should be used, for emphasis. The sentence actually sounds incomplete without it, and I know I would use a subject pronoun in Spanish or Italian, two other languages in which subject pronouns are not normally used because the verb usually provides that information:
> 
> _Muchas gracias, pero *yo* tampoco comprendo._
> _Molte grazie, ma anch'*io* non capisco._


I remember from my lesesons of Spanish that there were cases in which Spanish wouldn't use a personal pronoun where I would use one in Polish. (I can't remember the exact sentence though. )



elroy said:


> My question for Polish speakers: What do you think of the sentence without "ja"? Does it sound natural in this context? Does it have the proper degree of emphasis? Would you use "ja"? Would you say that using "ja" is necessary?


I think it is a normal sentence, a bit more informal than that with the ponoun _ja _(my observation). Yes, it sounds natural in this context as well as it emphasizes what we want to convey. I think I would use _ja_, but I don't disapprove of not doing so. In my opinion it depends whether it is necessary or not on context, but in the provided context I would say it is a question of preference. 


Tom


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## slavian1

As it was already mentioned in Polish both sentences are prefectly fine.
I personally feel a very slight difference. 
Without the "ja" the sentence can convey information, that the speaker doesn't want to continue discussion about the topic. 

Dziękuję, też nie rozumiem. - Thank you very much, but I don't understand either. (and go to hell ;-)

Dziękuję, ja też nie rozumiem. - Thank you very much, but I don't understand either. (and I'm sorry about it).


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## JakubikF

I agree with you slavian. It may have such almost invisible difference. I suspect that it really depends on a context and stress of each word it that sentence.


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## Thomas1

I have been trying that for some time and can't grasp this difference between "Dziękuję bardzo, ale też nie rozumiem" and "Dziękuję bardzo, ale ja też nie rozumiem". I think they both could imply that given an appropriate intonation, body language, etc.
I am wondering... Elroy, does your friend continue on with the discussion about the attempt at understanding the song in the e-mail? If so is she interested in further delving into the subject to understand the nuance? Sorry for these personal questions. 


Tom


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## Oletta

elroy said:


> Hello!
> 
> _Muchas gracias, pero *yo* tampoco comprendo._
> _Molte grazie, ma anch'*io* non capisco._
> 
> My question for Polish speakers: What do you think of the sentence without "ja"?  Does it sound natural in this context?  Does it have the proper degree of emphasis?  Would you use "ja"?  Would you say that using "ja" is necessary?



In Italian/Spanish you can also omit "io" and you do omit "io" more or less as frequently as in Polish because when saying "rozumiem" ("capisco"/"comprendo") everyone knows that it's me who understands "ja rozumiem" (io capisco/yo comprendo)

Unfortunately your Italian/Spanish example is not a good one to show it! In Italian and Spanish in this particular case they use "io"/"yo" collocated with "anche"/"tampoco". *In Italian you can't even use "anche" in the first person singular without the pronoun "io", which has to be always joined with an apostrophe into one word: "anch'io"... but everybody would understand that it is the first person singular even if you omit the pronoun, whether it's Polish, Italian or Spanish. In your example it's the matter of COLLOCATIONS and the effect of underlining that it's also ME who doesn't understand.

In Polish if you want to express that  it's also ME who doesn't understand, then say: "Dziękuję bardzo, ale JA też nie rozumiem" rather than  "Dziękuję bardzo, ale  też nie rozumiem" [the pronoun "ja" has to be vocally accented]. In written Polish the difference isn't noticeable in such a situation. Generally nobody cares about personal pronoun being omitted in languages where verbs are conjugated as scrupulously as it is eg. in Polish/Italian/Spanish... unless there occurs a collocation.

(*Without "anche" the usage of "io" isn't necessary: you'd have simply - "non capisco")

Ola


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## elroy

Thanks to all for the replies.  It's interesting that there are differences among Slavic languages regarding whether the subject pronoun should be used. Of the languages discussed so far, it looks like Polish and Czech are more flexible than the others in that they allow omission of the pronoun without a change in emphasis or fluidity. My hunch is that the same applies to Slovak. 





Thomas1 said:


> I am wondering... Elroy, does your friend continue on with the discussion about the attempt at understanding the song in the e-mail? If so is she interested in further delving into the subject to understand the nuance?


 No. She went on to talk about other things. 


Oletta said:


> In Italian/Spanish you can also omit "io" and you do omit "io" more or less as frequently as in Polish because when saying "rozumiem" ("capisco"/"comprendo") everyone knows that it's me who understands "ja rozumiem" (io capisco/yo comprendo)


 Yes, I know that, and I thought I had made that clear. I was talking about this particular sentence/context, not about whether Polish omits "ja" in general.


> In Italian and Spanish in this particular case they use "io"/"yo" collocated with "anche"/"tampoco". *In Italian you can't even use "anche" in the first person singular without the pronoun "io", which has to be always joined with an apostrophe into one word: "anch'io"... but everybody would understand that it is the first person singular even if you omit the pronoun, whether it's Polish, Italian or Spanish. In your example it's the matter of COLLOCATIONS and the effect of underlining that it's also ME who doesn't understand.


 No, this is not true. There is no law that dictates that (in the first person singular) "tampoco" has to be used with "yo," or "anche"/"neanche" with "io":

_No hablo portugés y tampoco lo comprendo._
_Non parlo portoghese e neanche lo capisco._
_Parlo portoghese e anche lo capisco._

Whether or not the subject pronoun is used depends on the context. In this particular context, the subject pronoun is needed for the proper degree of emphasis. 





> (*Without "anche" the usage of "io" isn't necessary: you'd have simply - "non capisco")


 That is not always true. Sometimes "io" is needed for emphasis even without "anche."

_Gli altri studenti capiscono bene ma io non capisco._

Anyway, I'm not interested in Spanish or Italian here - I was only trying to make a comparison.

Thanks again for all your contributions!


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## voja

Hvala ti mnogo, ali ja ipak ne razumem.


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## klokan2000

Both are fine in Slovak:
_Ďakujem pekne, ale tiež tomu nerozumiem.
Ďakujem pekne, ale ja tomu tiež nerozumiem_.


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## mietagosia

Hey, I am a native Polish speaker. I agree with everything that has been stated before.
 I just want to add that because in Polish the verb form already indicates the person, it is sometimes considered too much to add a person. What is more, many linguists consider it a strong Russian influence in our language because according to the rules of Russian syntax one is obliged to use the person + conjugated verb form. 
So, "nie rozumiem" and "ja nie rozumiem" are both perfectly fine, but I would personally prefer the first option, without "ja". 

By the way I also have a Palestinian friend 

Cheers,
Gosia


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