# All dialects: fish



## SofiaB

Colloquial fish سمك /حوت
Which one is used in which countries?


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## Tariq_Ibn_zyad

In Morocco/Algeria we use "7uut".
"samak" exists but it would sound very heavy and polite


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## Mahaodeh

In the east we use Samak, never heard anyone refer to it as 7uut unless it was really big that it can be a whale.


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## cherine

In Egypt we say samak. If we hear "7uut" we only think of whale, which is not eaten here, so it would sound really strange to hear someone say they want to eat 7uut


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## elroy

cherine said:


> In Egypt we say samak. If we hear "7uut" we only think of whale, which is not eaten here, so it would sound really strange to hear someone say they want to eat 7uut


 Same here. 


Mahaodeh said:


> In the east we use Samak, never heard anyone refer to it as 7uut unless it was really big that it can be a whale.


 In Palestinian Arabic, a "7uut" is a whale only. A fish is a "samake" no matter how big it is.

I had no idea there were places in which "7uut" was used generically to refer to any fish! 

Tariq, how do you differentiate between a fish and a whale?


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## Mahaodeh

While 7uut is a whale, what I meant was that Sharks are also called 7uut sometimes although technically they are not whales; but most of the time for sharks we use Qirsh.

Also 7uut can be figurative, i.e., a tycoon in Arabic is sometimes referred to as a 7uut.


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> While 7uut is a whale, what I meant was that Sharks are also called 7uut sometimes although technically they are not whales; but most of the time for sharks we use Qirsh.


 I see what you mean.  I guess someone who doesn't know the difference might call a shark a "7uut." 





> Also 7uut can be figurative, i.e., a tycoon in Arabic is sometimes referred to as a 7uut.


 Yes, of course, the word has some figurative uses, but my guess is that SofiaB is interested in literal fish and whales here.


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## Tariq_Ibn_zyad

elroy said:


> Tariq, how do you differentiate between a fish and a whale?


We use 7uut for fish in general.
I'm not sure how we say whale, but I think I heard "7uutat yuunes"


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## enemiimene

Tariq_Ibn_zyad said:


> In Morocco/Algeria we use "7uut".
> "samak" exists but it would sound very heavy and polite


 
You're right! In Algeria the word 7out is for general use for fish. However, the Middle East does use samak. It would be really funny for me if I said samak in my everyday speech. It's a more formal word. 

I have to argue that the Middle East is right though, samak means fish...and 7out means BIG fish.. like whales. 

Speaking of 7out..here..read this normally and then read it backwards: *حوت فمه مفتوح*
...


Tariq_Ibn_zyad said:


> We use 7uut for fish in general.
> I'm not sure how we say whale,but I think I heard "7uutat yuunes"


yeeeh...3eeeb 3leek...hoot yunes..min ween jibteehaa haathee? thahakteeny..

Just like the French translation. Whale=Balaine, whale in Arabic is called .حوت البالين


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## Tariq_Ibn_zyad

enemiimene said:


> yeeeh...3eeeb 3leek...hoot yunes..min ween jibteehaa haathee? thahakteeny..
> 
> just like the french translation. Whale=Balaine, whale in arabic is called .حوت البالين


ntiya dziriya?? la transcription nta3ek 3jiba.
Anyway,I also use baleine,but I heard 7outat younes...I don't know from where it comes from.


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## enemiimene

Oui, je suis algerienne mais 3lesh 3jeeba la transcription nte3i? Maybe because I addressed you as a girl? hahaha


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## MarcB

*Fomalhaut*/Fam al-Hut /Mouth of the fish. The star's name comes from Arabic.This from medieval times.


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## enemiimene

MarcB said:


> Fomalhaut/Fam al-Hut /Mouth of the fish. The star's name comes from Arabic.This from medieval times.



I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU JUST SAID??!!?!?!?!


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## MarcB

SofiaB said:


> Which one is used in which countries?


 


enemiimene said:


> I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU JUST SAID??!!?!?!?!


* Fomalhaut* _also called  Alpha Piscis Austrini _ the 17th star (excluding the Sun) in order of apparent brightness. It is used in navigation because of its conspicuous place in a sky region otherwise lacking in bright stars. It lies in the southern constellation Piscis Austrinus, about 25 light-years from the Earth. A white star, it has an apparent magnitude of 1.18. A sixth-magnitude companion star is yellow


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## SofiaB

I am glad to know about the use of both words including thhe figurative meaning of 7ut. thanks


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## Nikola

As far as I know Libya, Tunisia,Algeria,Morocco and Mauritania say Hut and samak in the other countries.


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## toolmanUF

I believe that in Yemen حوت is used for fish as well. So, in many countries that is the word that people use colloquially, but in MSA only سمك  is accepted as "fish."


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## MarcB

Is Yemen the only country in the east that uses 7ut as fish, not whale? what is the relationship between Yemen and West Africa?


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## huhmzah

In Tunisia they use "حوت"  (Huut) to mean a generic "fish", and the word Samak is only used when speaking in fus7a .


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## clevermizo

MarcB said:


> Is Yemen the only country in the east that uses 7ut as fish, not whale? what is the relationship between Yemen and West Africa?



I don't think you can posit a relationship based on one lexeme. But you could do more analysis of other words that perhaps are shared between Yemen and North African (I assumed you meant North Africa) dialects but not so in other Middle Eastern dialects, and see if there is a connection.

It could have to do with the Arabization/Islamization of North Africa, and which tribes went where and used what words. However, on the evidence of exactly one lexeme, I really don't know if it's worth saying more about it other than coincidence.


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## huhmzah

Interestingly in the language of the Quran, the word "7uut" is used to refer to both a generic "fish" AND a whale:

Here's a verse from the Surah Al-Kahf, in the story of Al-khidr where Moses and his companion are carrying a fish on their journey.

 																		فَلَمَّا بَلَغَا مَجْمَعَ بَيْنِهِمَا نَسِيَا حُوتَهُمَا فَاتَّخَذَ سَبِيلَهُ فِي الْبَحْرِ سَرَبً


And this is from Surah As-saffat mentioning the story of Jonah and the  whale:

 																		فَالْتَقَمَهُ الْحُوتُ وَهُوَ مُلِيمٌ


The same word is used in both verses.


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## kifaru

MarcB said:


> Is Yemen the only country in the east that uses 7ut as fish, not whale? what is the relationship between Yemen and West Africa?



The Banu Hilal and the Banu Sulaym were beduin tribes that invaded North Africa after having migrated from areas in present day Saudi Arabia.


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## suma

As pointed out by Huhmzah, both words are standard as indicated by the aforementioned Quranic verses; however our friends in _*maghrib *_oddly enough think that their usage of _*7oot*_ is colloquial??


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## MarcB

clevermizo said:


> I don't think you can posit a relationship based on one lexeme. But you could do more analysis of other words that perhaps are shared between Yemen and North African (I assumed you meant North Africa) dialects but not so in other Middle Eastern dialects, and see if there is a connection.
> 
> It could have to do with the Arabization/Islamization of North Africa, and which tribes went where and used what words. However, on the evidence of exactly one lexeme, I really don't know if it's worth saying more about it other than coincidence.


I put West Africa because I wanted to exclude East Africa, Egypt,Sudan and Chad.
There are actually other similarities besides just fish,but this thread is about fish. Also I know the Beni Hassan settled Mauritania, I don't know about the other countries.


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## clevermizo

suma said:


> As pointed out by Huhmzah, both words are standard as indicated by the aforementioned Quranic verses; however our friends in _*maghrib *_oddly enough think that their usage of _*7oot*_ is colloquial??



Well it is effectively. As has been stated in this thread, apparently in the Maghreb _7uut_ is used in spoken Arabic, but when writing formally _samak_ is used. Despite historical uses to the contrary, the *current* state of affairs seems to be that _7uut_, as referring to fish in general, is specific to Maghribi dialects of Arabic and apparently also in Yemen.


MarcB said:


> I put West Africa because I wanted to exclude East Africa, Egypt,Sudan and Chad.
> There are actually other similarities besides just fish,but this thread is about fish. Also I know the Beni Hassan settled Mauritania, I don't know about the other countries.



Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I normally associate the term "West Africa" with just the West African coastal countries and everything south of Algeria and Morocco basically.


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## ayed

In Saudi and other GCC , we often use fish(samak) .As for Huut,it is a blue whale or white whale or whatsoever is ..


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## Nikola

Tariq_Ibn_zyad said:


> Anyway,I also use baleine,but I heard 7outat younes...I don't know from where it comes from.





huhmzah said:


> And this is from Surah As-saffat mentioning the story of Jonah and the  whale:
> 
> فَالْتَقَمَهُ الْحُوتُ وَهُوَ مُلِيمٌ


7utat younes comes from this verse of the holy Quran.


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## jemamah

Generally in north Africa dialect the word HHOUT  is always used to refer to any kind of fish and  SAMAK is used in the FOUSHHA Arabic.
In the other part of arab world FISH is always SAMAK and HHOUT is any big FISH
Any way the FISH is SAMAK and HOUT in the same time, as far as I am concern the WHALE is one of the variety of FISH, and the idea to refer the word HOUT only to whale is far fetched,
walahhou aalam
Thanks.


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