# to flunk out



## sweadle

Hi there,

I am trying to translate the following (taken from a novel):

I grew up in Spokane, moved to Seattle 23 years ago for college, *flunked out within two semesters*, worked various jobs, married a couple of times..."

My attempt: ".., abandonné mes études avant la fin du deuxième semestre après avoir raté mes examens, ..."


However, the English version seems to be a lot more succinct, and I was wondering if anyone knew of a shorter, less long-winded French phrase? 

Many thanks!


----------



## CarlosRapido

..., tout raté au cours du 2ie semestre...


----------



## Marie So

... _pour fréquenter l'université, où j'ai échoué au bout de deux semestres/en deux semestres _(the latter a bit ironical: it didn't take more than two semesters!)


----------



## Gravos

Not meaning the fact that exams were bad, but probably implying it in your context, I would use in order to be fast :
fichu/foutu dehors au bout de deux semestres


----------



## Marie So

Gravos said:


> Not meaning the fact that exams were bad, but probably implying it in your context, I would use in order to be fast :
> fichu/foutu dehors au bout de deux semestres



But did he give up willingly (since Sweadle's attempt was _abandonné_), or was he fired (your _foutu dehors_)? It makes a difference!


----------



## Gravos

In my proposition it is not precised whether he was fired or gave up because of bad exams. It is not exactly fired (which would be viré). But with context helping (the fact that he was not good at studies but not a brat for example...) I thought that could fit for a fast expression.

By re-reading the thread, SM I think your proposition is the best :
..., échoué au bout de deux semestres,...


----------



## wildan1

S.M. said:


> But did he give up willingly (since Sweadle's attempt was _abandonné_), or was he fired (your _foutu dehors_)? It makes a difference!


If he had given up willingly, he would have said _dropped out_. 
_
Flunked out _means he was not allowed to continue--_Foutu dehors au bout de la première année (=two semesters).
_


----------



## Marie So

wildan1 said:


> If he had given up willingly, he would have said _dropped out_.
> _
> Flunked out _means he was not allowed to continue--_Foutu dehors au bout de la première année (=two semesters).
> _



OK, thanks!


----------



## Embonpoint

*Flunked out* veut dire qu'il a échoué dans ses études. Après avour échoué, c'est bien probable qu'il a été foutu dehors. Mais les deux choses ne sont pas exactement pareilles!


----------



## Marie So

Embonpoint said:


> *Flunked out* veut dire qu'il a échoué dans ses études. Après avour échoué, c'est bien probable qu'il a été foutu dehors. Mais les deux choses ne sont pas exactement pareilles!



Merci. "Échoué", c'est bien ce qu'il me semblait, c'est d'ailleurs une solution qui permet de ne pas avoir à préciser de quelle manière il a quitté l'université...


----------



## Nicomon

Hello,

Given these two definitions: 





> *flunk someone out*
> to give one a grade that forces one to leave school or a course. _The math professor flunked me out. He expects too much.__She flunked out half the class!_
> *
> flunk out (of something)*
> to leave school or a course because of failure. _Fred flunked out of school and never tried to go back.__That's it. All F's. I've flunked out._


 So, was he "flunked out", or did he "flunk out"?

In the first case, I'd say : ... _recalé/renvoyé au bout d'un an (de deux semestres)
_and in the second case, I'd say : _... j'ai échoué en l'espace de deux semestres / au bout d'un an. _


----------



## djweaverbeaver

Nicomon said:


> Hello,
> 
> Given these two definitions:  So, was he "flunked out", or did he "flunk out"?
> 
> In the first case, I'd say : ... _recalé/renvoyé au bout d'un an (de deux semestres)
> _and in the second case, I'd say : _... j'ai échoué en l'espace de deux semestres / au bout d'un an. _



The first definition you cited with it as a transitive verb _"to flunk s.o. out"_ is not very common.  Actually, I've never heard it used that way.  I would definitely say: _*The math professor flunked me*_, that is, without the final *out*.  Could you please cite your source?


----------



## Language Hound

_The Merriam-Webster Dictionary_ defines "to flunk out" as "*to be dismissed from a school or college for failure*."  There is definitely the notion of "se faire virer/foutu dehors" along with "échoué."  And, although _M-W_ lists "to flunk out" as both a transitive and intransitive verb, I, like djweaverbeaver, have never heard it used--nor would I ever think to use it--transitively.


----------



## Nicomon

djweaverbeaver said:


> [...]. Could you please cite your source?


 Désolée. J'ai copié collé de cette page : The Free Dictionary

Adaptation libre : _... ne me suis pas rendu plus loin que le deuxième semestre._ 

Le lecteur décidera s'il a abandonné ou échoué.  

Sinon, je préfère « _être recalé / renvoyé _» à « _être foutu dehors _». Cela n'engage que moi.


----------



## wildan1

Nicomon said:


> Sorry. I copy/pasted from the FreeDictionary


_He flunked me (gave me a failing grade)_ is commonly said--casual register. _He failed me_ is more formal or official. 

But I, too, find the transitive use of _flunk out_… bizarre, despite its being cited by your dictionary. 

It sounds like something coming from the mouth of a child or uneducated person--no doubt about its meaning. But I would not use it as a good example of usage, Nicomon (e.g., in an official translation.)

Perhaps it sounds odd because _flunking out _is not usually a process that one teacher can cause--it is based on an institutional decision to dismiss a student.


----------



## Nicomon

I have since edited my post. My citation is copied from the FreeDictionary, but they refer to McGrawhill and Cambridge. 

As a non native, I certainly won't say that I don't agree with you guys. 

However, note that the Merriam Webster also cites the transitive use - as DJ specified - without any mention that it is rare. 

Besides, I found quite a few google results for "flunked me out". How was I to know?

*Edit :* I would have thought that "flunked me" was for a specific exam/course. And that "flunked me out" = out of college after too many failures.


----------



## Gil

Nicomon said:
			
		

> Adaptation libre : _... ne me suis pas rendu plus loin que le deuxième semestre._


Vive l'adaptation libre.


----------



## Embonpoint

I don't think *flunked out *is rare at all! It's slang to me, and it happens to be slang that is used by my age group (in my 40s) and in my geographical region (east coast of the U.S.). To me it would be completely natural to say _"I flunked out."_

Thanks to Language Hound for the full definition. I still must say (as one of the only people in this thread who is in the demographic group for which this expression is natural) that the best translation for me hands down is still_ j'ai echoué_. The last suggestion, _je ne me suis pas rendu plus loin que le deuxième semestre _translates into English as, "I didn't make it past the second semester" which isn't the same thing. I don't like* foutu dehors *because it doesn't convey the sense of failing academically; perhaps you failed academically but you might have also been given the boot for poor behavior--such as getting drunk and climbing the tallest tower on campus.


----------



## Pedro y La Torre

Flunk out or to be flunked out is entirely unknown on this side of the Atlantic for what it's worth; interesting to see the (subtle) differences in meaning!


----------



## Language Hound

Embonpoint said:


> I don't think *flunked out *is rare at all!



No, it isn't.  I think it is quite common to hear and say "He flunked out of college," for example.  But what is rare, at least in AE, is its transitive use, i.e., "He flunked me out."
In my humble opinion, the challenge here is to find *one* French verb that connotes both being thrown out *and *failing.  I can't come up with one. So, to avoid a long-winded French phrase that would convey both these ideas but would also break or adversely effect the rhythm of the sentence, I think one of the connotations must take a back seat in the translation.


----------



## Marie So

Language Hound said:


> In my humble opinion, the challenge here is to find *one* French verb that connotes both being thrown out *and *failing.



Great challenge!

I couldn't find a single verb either, but just for the fun of it:

_... l'université, où j'ai pris une bonne claque et la porte au bout de deux semestres._

_(Se) prendre une claque_: to experience a huge failure.
_prendre la porte_: to be dismissed.


----------



## Embonpoint

Une amie à moi propose* je me suis ramassé.

*Qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?


----------



## guillaumedemanzac

It is definitely not passive:   *.... , (I) flunked out within two semesters* - so he did it himself by not working or not being bright enough.
Also he did not _drop out_ which often implies " I was bright enough but decided to drop out."
So* j'ai echoué *with the emphasis on the *je* seems closest to *I flunked out* - the missing* I *in the original quote is quite normal.


----------



## Nicomon

Embonpoint said:


> [...] The last suggestion, _je ne me suis pas rendu plus loin que le deuxième semestre _translates into English as, "I didn't make it past the second semester" which isn't the same thing.


  For the record... I knew that.  Why do you think I wrote « _adaptation libre _», and let the reader decide whether he dropped out or flunked out?   



> I don't like* foutu dehors *because it doesn't convey the sense of failing academically; perhaps you failed academically but you might have also been given the boot for poor behavior--such as getting drunk and climbing the tallest tower on campus.


  I don't either, for the same reason. 

J'ai échoué = I flunked, but it doesn't automatically imply the "out of college" part.  Hence my suggesting an adapt', as nothing seems to work perfectly.


----------



## djweaverbeaver

Embonpoint said:


> I don't think *flunked out *is rare at all! It's slang to me, and it happens to be slang that is used by my age group (in my 40s) and in my geographical region (east coast of the U.S.). To me it would be completely natural to say _"I flunked out."_
> 
> Thanks to Language Hound for the full definition. I still must say (as one of the only people in this thread who is in the demographic group for which this expression is natural) that the best translation for me hands down is still_ j'ai echoué_. The last suggestion, _je ne me suis pas rendu plus loin que le deuxième semestre _translates into English as, "I didn't make it past the second semester" which isn't the same thing. I don't like* foutu dehors *because it doesn't convey the sense of failing academically; perhaps you failed academically but you might have also been given the boot for poor behavior--such as getting drunk and climbing the tallest tower on campus.



I'm sorry, but I don't think you properly read and understood what we were saying.  We all agreed that *to flunk out* was common in American English; we didn't agree with its supposed possible transitive usage (e.g. He flunked me out. )  This we've never heard or used.  We would say *He (the teacher/professor) flunked me*, without adding out.


----------



## Embonpoint

djweaverbeaver said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think you properly read and understood what we were saying.  We all agreed that *to flunk out* was common in American English; we didn't agree with its supposed possible transitive usage (e.g. He flunked me out. )  This we've never heard or used.  We would say *He (the teacher/professor) flunked me*, without adding out.



Ah okay. I think I agree with you.


----------



## Nicomon

I'll just add this, and then I'm changing threads. 

In my opinion, the closest single verb to mean both "_to fail and be unable to continue/be dismissed_", as suggested before is « _recaler_ ». 

_J'ai été recalé / je me suis fait recaler au bout de deux semestres._ 

I would say _j'ai échoué dans mes études /à mon cours_. But I wouldn't be inclined to say « _J'ai échoué le collège _». 
Whereas I'm pretty sure that one could say « _être recalé / se faire recaler __du collège_. » If that still doesn't work, then I'd go with an adaptation. 

As for_ je me suis ramassé... _I personally would say instead,_ je me suis planté. _But that could be Quebec French.


> [Figuré] Échouer. Elle s’est plantée à son examen de biologie.


----------



## wildan1

Nicomon said:


> I'll just add this, and then I'm changing threads.
> 
> In my opinion, the closest single verb to mean both "_to fail and be unable to continue/be dismissed_", as suggested before is « _recaler_ ».
> 
> _J'ai été recalé / je me suis fait recaler au bout de deux semesters._


I might be incorrect, Nicomon, but I think that in Euro-French, _recaler_ is simply a synonym of _échouer (à une épreuve ou un concours)_. I don't believe it suggests for European French-speakers that you cannot continue or take the exam over.

So if that's the case, maybe sweadle's choice of options will depend on the specific audience for his translation--European or Canadian.


----------



## Nicomon

I never said it was the perfect choice. My first choice, as I said twice, would be an adapt. 

I suggested _recaler _(no accent on the first « e ») because the construction « _être recalé / se faire recaler _» implies another person, contrary to _échouer_. 

Soo... I thought it was the closest possibility (more so than _échouer)_, to mean both _fail_ and _be dismissed, _since_ « être foutu dehors/renvoyé » _clearly doesn't necessarily mean that the person failed. 

Besides, I know the verb _recaler_, but rarely ever use it. Which is why I wrote "I'm pretty sure that one could say..." and then added : If that doesn't work... 
So no, my suggestion isn't specific Quebec usage. I didn't bother correcting the spelling mistakes in this sentence, which clearly wasn't written by a Quebecker : 





> Au lieu de ça, j´apprend que les seuls potes qui vont faire medecines avec moi, bah ils ont été *recalé de la fac*, et sont envoyé à perpet à Paris


 Though I do realise that in this sentence, and in most cases if not all, it means "not accepted" rather than "dismissed". 

Now, I'm really off to another thread. I think.


----------

