# Your interest in language



## panjabigator

How is your interest in language, whether it be a foreign one or your own, interpreted by your friends or family?  Do you ever feel that you are criticized for studying your own or taking interest in linguistics?  I feel that in my family, at least initially I was pestered by some for studying a language that may get me know where, or that I was "loosing track of my real goal," be that whatsoever.  Or that my interest in a foreign language over my cultural one was a mistake and that it showed what my true colors are.

No my family isn't horrible, but they have too many comments sometimes.  My father initially felt that Hindi would be too hard for me and that I would confuse myself with Panjabi.  Also, my grandfather thought that my interest in Spanish was rather odd because I didn't take interest in Panjabi.  A sort of slap in the face to him, I guess.  Anyway, different cultures interpret different things differently (quite possible the worst sentence ever writin in English!).  Some of Spanish speaking friends are often encountered with following discussions after hearing that they are Spanish majors in college: "So isn't that really easy for you" or "why would you learn a language you already know?"

What do you think?  How is language learning interpreted over there?  Does its acceptance differ between youth and elderly?  And do friends ever pass similar comments?


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## KateNicole

Language (both foreign and my own) is my passion.  I don't think that language learning is looked down upon, but I will say that many people do not fully realize how extremely complex language learning is, and therefore underestimate its difficulty, as well as its importance.  
For example, when living in Wisconsin, I was alarmed by the fact that many seemingly intelligent people were under the impression that literally any person with a Spanish surname who seemed to speak a little bit of Spanish was a qualified interpreter/translator [banks seemed to be the worse, and hospitals (thankfully) seemed to be the best, although not good enough.]  It never seemed to cross anyone's mind that a person who was _never _formally educated in the target language might not be able to produce a translation that would reflect positively on the company in question.  Thanks to this, when I walk into hospitals and doctor's offices, I see signs that say things like "Rejistresen con la resepcionista."  Attention to detail is important, both in medicine and in language, and _especially _in medical translation . . . which is why it makes me very uneasy when I receive treatment in hospitals that have signage similar to what I have described above.  

Studying literature gives you substance and perception, as well as something to talk about at a dinner party.   It can give you valuable insight into your own culture that you would no longer be able to extract from today's "real world."  Having a solid understanding of grammar and language convention and mechanics is the key to effective communication.  Studying language may be underappreciated by some, but it will never go out of style!


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## panjabigator

> Studying language may be underappreciated by some, but it will never go out of style!



Until some 200 years from now when we language buffs are exiled to a new planet and everyone speaks English...gulp


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## KateNicole

I predict the US will sooner self-destruct and we'll all be speaking Korean


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## maxiogee

Two of my father's three sisters were 'wordy' and it was assumed that I 'got it from them' - whatever 'it' is. One of them was quite into foreign languages (I'm not) but they all dabbled their toes in the waters of linguistics for the sheer pleasure of it.


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## KateNicole

panjabigator said:


> Some of Spanish speaking friends are often encountered with following discussions after hearing that they are Spanish majors in college: "So isn't that really easy for you" or "why would you learn a language you already know?"


I've observed this quite frequently and it always makes me laugh. Do they think that in a university setting we sit around and practice the names of the colors and counting to ten? It makes me feel like walking up to a med. student and saying "Why would you study _that_? Don't you already know how to sing 'head, shoulders, knees and toes'?" 

OK, maybe I'm getting a little too cynical . . .


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## danielfranco

I've never come across any attitude (encouraging or disparaging) about the study of languages. Probably because when I was a small tyke back in Mexico it was a prestigious endeavor to speak a foreign language well. But since I've never formally studied languages (I'm a medical interpreter/translator, but because of my qualifications: i.e. I can pass most of the tests they've thrown at me) I really haven't experienced anything. Which makes me wonder what I'm trying to contribute here, precisely....
Confused....


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## jabogitlu

> Studying literature gives you substance and perception, as well as something to talk about at a dinner party.  It can give you valuable insight into your own culture that you would no longer be able to extract from today's "real world." Having a solid understanding of grammar and language convention and mechanics is the key to effective communication. Studying language may be underappreciated by some, but it will never go out of style!


Oh, you put your finger on my point exactly!  English is such a simple language in terms of declension, conjugation, tense, etc., that most native speakers never realize exactly how complex language *can* be.  Thus my learning of Spanish has always been viewed by family and friends as something that I should have been able to accomplish in a few months.  My passion for linguistics and language acquisition is viewed as even more of a lark - why would anyone ever care to consider the fine science of communication?

But, really, communication and language is what makes humans human.  And I can say with confidence that I can express myself much more articulately - and more importantly, know how and why -  than almost anyone I've personally encountered.  I'm also able to perceive truths and subtle nuances in others' speech precisely because I have studied the psychology behind word choice, placement, etc.  Many people are amazed at how much one can draw from a conversation, and its participants and their views, just by considering why "we" was used instead of "I," or the use of simple past instead of imperfect tenses, etc...


I also wonder at the Spanish-speakers majoring in Spanish thing.  No one makes fun of English natives majoring in English.  Why the double standard?


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## Etcetera

My parents are used to my interest in languages by now.
In fact, my Mum believes that I should learn one language firstly, and only then start to learn another. But I find it a bit boring... 



> I've observed this quite frequently and it always makes me laugh. Do they think that in a university setting we sit around and practice the names of the colors and counting to ten? It makes me feel like walking up to a med. student and saying "Why would you study _that_? Don't you already know how to sing 'head, shoulders, knees and toes'?"


I agree with you, Kate.
I am a Russian-speaker majoring in English, and there are many students whose major is Russian. To say the truth, they know about the language many, many things most natives are totally unaware of!


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## palomnik

Ref. your comment, Etcetera, "In fact, my Mum believes that I should learn one language firstly, and only then start to learn another. But I find it a bit boring... "

I know what you mean. As my wife comments on occasion, I'm a functional illiterate in six languages...


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## AnnieF

panjabigator said:


> Until some 200 years from now when we language buffs are exiled to a new planet and everyone speaks English...gulp


 
And probably not even then - you know how picky we all are about our use of English!


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## Pedro y La Torre

I don't really like languages in themselves, that's why I'd never bother learning an extinct language for instance, but I appreciate them as they enable me to communicate with and develop understanding for other cultures.


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## LanguageTraveler

As a native English speaker, I have more than once come across an attitude of 'what's the point in learning a foreign language, everyone speaks English anyway'. 

I am very sad to say there is truth in this at times. Despite working in an international environment where it would be very easy to speak to overseas colleagues in their native tongue, business is still conducted in English for a number of very sensible reasons. 

Nontheless, I still love languages. There is nothing that quite beats the buzz of catching yourself jabbering away in another language and making those sounds and pronounciations that are not native to you. 

And one of the biggest reasons I chose to pursue languages? I wanted to travel. Even if you do not get to use your languages as much as you would like, having a second or third language opens doors that would have otherwise remained closed. 

If your family are worried about you 'loosing track of your real goal', then you could remind them that knowing languages will pave the way to an international career!


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## Outsider

panjabigator said:


> Until some 200 years from now when we language buffs are exiled to a new planet and everyone speaks English...gulp


There will always be dead languages. Perhaps we'll start a Dead Language Society then.


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## JamesM

I've always loved the idea of learning languages. I'm still in the process of learning a second language, and reaching the age where a third or fourth is probably a pipe dream, but I'd love to learn many languages, if I had the time. My family always thought French was an odd choice, since it wasn't really very useful in California. I probably should have started with Spanish, but I didn't have exposure to really beautiful Spanish growing up so I didn't have as high an opinion of it as French. Now I'd like Spanish to be my third language.

Something that I haven't heard many people mention is that you get a completely different impression of people in another country if you can understand at least some of what they're saying while you're there. We just visited France for the first time in September, and we overheard some nice (and not-so-nice) things from people who assumed we didn't speak French, probably because we were American.  

We returned a rental car and gave a bottle of cider we had bought in Normandy to the woman at the counter on an impulse. She was surprised. When her husband came into the store she was saying to him (in French), "Look what the Americans brought us... a gift! That's so nice of them." We heard the man speaking to his daughter on the cellphone as he dropped us off at the train station, relaying the story:" Can you believe it? They brought us some cider. No.. the Americans who rented a car. Yes, very nice!" 

If I knew no French at all, I would have just heard indistinguishable noise, but it was heartwarming to hear that they were touched by the gesture. It's a little thing, but there were dozens of these little moments while we were there. Being able to hear simple conversations between co-workers, or explanations of a problem by an employee to his or her supervisor, changes the whole experience of being in someone else's country.


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## xarruc

I think attiudes to languages varies depending on who's learned them: some examples of reactions:

*- Did you know that the pope speaks 5 langages?

*reaction - general acknowledgement that he is a clever man.


*- Did you know Paris Hilton speaks fluent arabic?

*reaction - surprise, cos I thought she was just a dumb bimbo.



Edit: Please note. With the exception of the statement about the pope, the statements are invented. There seems to be some doubt.
*- You've lived in France for 12 months, how's your french?
 - not too bad, I can just about get by.

*reaction - (behind his back) cor, isn't that bad, after all that time and he still hasn't bothered...


*- This is Pedro, Spanish father, German mother, raised in England, speaks fluent Spanish, German, English

*reaction - unimpressed acknowledgement that that's a lot whilst inwardly thinking - well it was easy for him!


*- My brother is learning French
 - beause he wants to move to France?
- No, he just likes the sound of it and French music.

*reaction - why? What a nerd. Where does he get the time? Probably a snob that can't hardly do it well anyway.

My point is not that these are standard responses in every case, rather that how language learning is percieved varies with who is doing it, and the context they are in:  from contempt, idolation.


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## mytwolangs

Well I don't think my friends [both of them] or family have much opinion of my studying French. They just don't care or say anything either way. 

Sometimes people seem impressed that I study French, but that is about it. Sometimes people say "why not learn Spanish cause so many people in the USA speak it" to which I say - "Spanish speakers are a dime a dozen in the USA, if I need a translation, a bilingual SPA/ENG person is never hard to find. And, I like French"  
I like to do things that not a whole lot of people do. Unconventional. 

The thing that sometimes gets on my nerves is when I will be buying sometimes French like a movie or book and someone will try to say something French. I feel like saying "Va te faire foutre" but in case they understand... I behave.


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## KateNicole

Do you have any proof that Paris Hilton speaks Arabic fluently?


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## Pedro y La Torre

KateNicole said:


> Do you have any proof that Paris Hilton speaks Arabic fluently?



Do you have any proof that she dosen't?


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## PianoMan

Language and linguistics is one of the three areas of study I'm passionate about, the other two being cultural geography and world history.  Being a High School student, not a lot is offered to me in the way of languages and my parents don't think it's a good idea to learn more than two at a time.  But I'm taking two (French and Spanish) and trying to teach myself German which isn't the easiest thing to do (a few relatives speak a good amount).  But for me studying languages is something that I love to do and fathom at how amazing it is that the whole world has so many different native tongues.  I think mastering two languages every four years is a good pace, at least that's my plan until I hit seven (counting English).


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## KateNicole

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Do you have any proof that she dosen't?


I don't have any reason to doubt that she hasn't _studied_ the language, but it annoys me when people throw around the term "fluent."  I've never heard her in any interview mention speaking Arabic, nor am I aware of her ever having lived in an Arabic-speaking nation.  I could muster up an ounce of respect for her if I learn that she has taken the time to master a foreign language.


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## Etcetera

xarruc said:


> *- My brother is learning French
> - beause he wants to move to France?
> - No, he just likes the sound of it and French music.
> 
> *reaction - why? What a nerd. Where does he get the time? Probably a snob that can't hardly do it well anyway.


What a familiar situation.
When I proundly announced that I found an online course of Piedmontese and started it, some of my friends made round eyes and asked, "But why on Earth should you learn Piedmontese? Can it possibly be useful for you?" Other friends, who are mostly philologists, immediately asked me a lot of questions regarding Piedmontese. We're all absolutely crazy about languages!


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## Pedro y La Torre

KateNicole said:


> I don't have any reason to doubt that she hasn't _studied_ the language, but it annoys me when people throw around the term "fluent."  I've never heard her in any interview mention speaking Arabic, nor am I aware of her ever having lived in an Arabic-speaking nation.  I could muster up an ounce of respect for her if I learn that she has taken the time to master a foreign language.



OK calmez-vous! It was just a joke.


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## DickHavana

> cute angel     I'm interesting on any language that i can learn
> first my language which is arabic passing by french our first forein language ending by english which is my aim now specilly i'm studying it in the univercity
> i always try to improuve my language
> and dad & mum always heplping me to be better


I always admire the people of little countries that can speak two or three languages without not too much problems (sorry my bad English). Frequently I meet inmigrant people from Africa or East Europe nations that speak fluently two or three languages, including gradually Spanish.

In Spain the situation was different. 40's-70's politics were: "Con español vas a cualquier parte", El español es la lengua del Imperio" ("You don't need another languages if you speak Spanish"). Now Spanish it's really useful to go to Zurich or Amsterdam and speak with the barman .

Regarding the Spanish minority languages, the situation were worse: "You don't need Catalan (or Basque), you have Spanish". That languages were forbidden and it was almost subversive to talk them).

Franco died 30 years ago and, fortunately, things are changing but still today that politics are perceptible in a lot of people.

Once again, sorry my bad and poor English


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## RussUS

DickHavana said:


> Once again, sorry my bad and poor English


 
I think you do very well. Some mistakes, yes, but everybody who visits these forums knows how difficult it is to express complex issues in a second language.

Keep up the good work.

Russ


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## natasha2000

In my country, and in all countries of ex-Yugoslavia, there is one moto:
The more languages you know, the better. People who know languages are usually considered more educated, more skilled, or more prepared for a real life.
No wonder, considering that nobody learns our language. So, if we want to hear and to be heard in the world, we have to learn languages, don't we?


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## sdr083

In Norway everybody has to study English and most people study one or two other languages at least for a few years, so everybody knows how challenging it can be to learn a new language.  I study languages full time, and have never had any negative reactions from family, friends or others.  Norwegian schools generally don't score that high when compared to other European schools, but we're always in the top when it comes to langauges.  I think it's because the Norwegian authorities recognize the importance of knowing foreign languages and prioritize language learning in school (we don't expect anyone to learn Norwegian, so basically we have to learn something else if we want to communicate with the rest of the world).

My parents are happy with what I'm studying and think I made a wise choice, both because it's something I've always been good at and because it's usefull and will get me a job. They both speak English and had to study German and French in school.

However, people's reaction does depend a bit on the language.  I have been met with a lot of "Why on earth would you want to learn that?! It's completely useless!!" when I say I'm learning Catalan...


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## DickHavana

I was in Norway some years ago (a few days) and I was unable to learn at least two or three words (so difficult is that language). Nonetheless, all the people spoke English without problem.Even the sheeps speak English in Norway. 

I understand that the question is that. If your language is difficult and isolated, you try to learn another language to communicate with the other.

I think that (it's my opinion), in Western Europe, Spain and France are a few behind  in this question.

O.T.: A friend's grandfather said: "Qué listos son los americanos, que saben hablar  inglés casi desde que nacen: es normal que sean ellos los que mandan." ("What a clever the Americans, they know to speak English since they born: It's logical that they rule us.")


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## Pedro y La Torre

DickHavana said:


> Even the sheeps speak English in Norwegian.



LOL. _Even the sheep speak English in Norway  (_You're probably right too_)_


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## DickHavana

Yes, it's was a mistake (where did I put my head?). 
I will correct it. 
Gracias, Pedro


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## Lugubert

panjabigator said:


> How is your interest in language, whether it be a foreign one or your own, interpreted by your friends or family? Do you ever feel that you are criticized for studying your own or taking interest in linguistics?


Considering that I make a fairly comfortable living as a technical translator, working from half a dozen languages into Swedish, people normally rather think that I'm clever and that my interest in learning languages is very natural for a person of my profession. Modest that I am, when praised too lavishly I invariably explain that I'm practically only translating from Germanic languages, French being the (fortunately not too frequent) exception, so it isn't that remarkable. (I avoid starting a discussion on the difference between speaking/understanding a language and translating.) I stress this point by mentioning the superiority of the young chemistry student I met in university Chinese class: she speaks Vietnamese, Mandarin, Cantonese, Swedish, English and French: three very different language families! (OK, I'm working on my Chinese and Bible Hebrew, so...)

Sometimes I have been questioned, why do you study this or that odd language? My answer is, why should it be an exception? I try to learn as many as possible. Had I been younger, I would have directed my efforts towards finding language universals. Now, it's just for the fun. I'm very lucky indeed to have a profession and a hobby that reinforce and supplement one another.


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## Saimon

"However, people's reaction does depend a bit on the language. I have been met with a lot of "Why on earth would you want to learn that?! It's completely useless!!" when I say I'm learning Catalan..."

I get a similar reaction when I say I'm studying Italian. And then there are the people who can't imagine why I bother studying any foreign language. After all, "Everybody speaks English!" A gross exaggeration, and I also cannot imagine staying in another country for any length of time and being completely clueless about what's being said around me.


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## guixols

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Do you have any proof that she dosen't?


 
I think xarruc was kidding. Paris Hilton is high school dropout who barely speaks English.


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## Pedro y La Torre

guixols said:


> I think xarruc was kidding. Paris Hilton is high school dropout who barely speaks English.





Pedro y La Torre said:


> OK calmez-vous! It was just a joke.


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## KateNicole

I didn't know if he was serious or not, but the reason why I posted is because I know many, many people that studied a language for a year or so, could not carry on conversation to save their life, yet say they are "fluent."  I didn't know if she was "one of those."  Sorry...


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## panjabigator

Very interesting opinions all of you.

To SD083:  I am also studying Catalan, but over here in Florida, barely anyone knows a damn thing about it.  I usually hear "You're studying what?"  Then I have to bite my tongue and say something atrocious:  "It's a language spoken in East Spain which *is sounds like mixture between French and Spanish*."  Of course, I know I am wrong in many ways because it isn't, but it is the simplest way to give a person some idea of what it is I am learning.  It's a generalization, but no one really gives a hoot about them being bilingual, so no one asks me what's the point of learning it for that reason.  But I do hear "why" in general a bunch, and that is it's own tale (we can PM if you'd like to know).

To Lugubert:  I highly respect people who speak multiple languages from multiple language families.  I speak 3 languages (albeit not fluently but certainly one advanced and the others fluently):  Spanish, English, and Panjabi (and Hindi too).  But the last 3 are from birth, really, so there is no excuse.  And Spanish has been for the last 8 years.  So what I'm saying is that she probably learned them from birth (or close to it), so it doesn't make it that big of a feat.  I don't mean to discredit her or anything.


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## Shauneyzboyz

Unfortunately for me, my interest in foreign languages had yet to spark until a little over a year ago.  That spark turned in to a flame when I took the little Italian I knew and studied in a town where no more than 5 people could speak conversational English.  One of the best things I took from an Italian friend of mine (who was studying at the local university) is that the most important thing we can do is learn to understand and communicate with everyone in the world.  That has continued to grow since then.

However I'm afraid to say that it's come a little too late.  I mean, I continue my study of the Italian language...I feel very passionate about it and would like to continue on with other languages after I've gained a strong enough knowledge of Italian.  But I'm at such a disadvantage trying to learn languages at my age.  America is such a non-multilingual nation that I can't really go anywhere and expect to even _hear _another language --> its scary that it was a 'treat' for me to go to the department store the other day and simply hear people speaking Spanish.

The consensus about foreign languages here is that "they are cool to know, but not important enough to learn."  When I tell people that I know Italian, I will be asked "ooh, cool, speak some Italian for me."  But it will never give them any interest to want to learn it themselves.

What's worse are those who become completely closed off to other languages.  I'm surrounded by friends who not only think, but somehow _know _that English is the only important language to know.  It's ridiculous.

We're just not trying hard enough in our schools.  I took French in 7th grade, but it was a requirement.  What's that saying?  We're turning languages in to a Gen Ed requirement, which makes students learn enough to get through the course with a passing grade, but then they forget everything they learned because they don't need it anymore.  If we want to succeed, we need to start much much earlier...and its the teaching of it that needs to be a requirement, not the learning of it.  We need to make foreign languages fun, not tedious requirements.  

We are at somewhat of a disadvantage though.  Look at America compared to Europe.  If I live in Italy, I'm surrounded by nearby countries where I'll hear German, French, Greek, etc.  I'll probably also hear English a lot too.  I mean, look at Switzerland...its a country with 4 national languages.  Now look at me in New York.  I'm not going to hear any foreign languages where I am, so I have to seek them out.  If I take an American mentality, I could try Mexico...but that's way too far away.  Canada is a possible choice too, but I would have to drive deep in to Canada to find a good density of French speakers.

I mean, Americans either want to learn another language or they don't.  The ones that don't want to will never learn one, and that's fine with them.  But the ones that do are still stuck, because its not encouraged enough.  If I want to _really _learn Italian, I've gotta get out there and speak it.  But with whom?  There is nobody around here that will speak it, so I need to go to Italy to do it.  But the plane ticket alone costs me upwards of $1000.  Let's say a Frenchman wants to practice his Italian, what does transportation for him cost?  Less than $1000, I'd hope.


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## Etcetera

panjabigator said:


> To SD083: I am also studying Catalan, but over here in Florida, barely anyone knows a damn thing about it. I usually hear "You're studying what?" Then I have to bite my tongue and say something atrocious: "It's a language spoken in East Spain which *is sounds like mixture between French and Spanish*." Of course, I know I am wrong in many ways because it isn't, but it is the simplest way to give a person some idea of what it is I am learning. It's a generalization, but no one really gives a hoot about them being bilingual, so no one asks me what's the point of learning it for that reason. But I do hear "why" in general a bunch, and that is it's own tale (we can PM if you'd like to know).


I find myself in the same situation regularly! 
Most of my friends are good enough in geography, so they don't normally ask questons like where's the language spoken, who speaks it, and so on. But when I am talking to a stranger, oh, it's truly awful.


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## PianoMan

Etcetera said:


> Most of my friends are good enough in geography, so they don't normally ask questons like where's the language spoken, who speaks it, and so on.


 
Lucky you, most of my friends and those I study with care too little about geography and culture, let alone foreign languages. Possibly why I'm so keen on learning as many as I can. In class, I've heard language being the "cornerstone identifier of any culture". I thought about that and I guess it's true, and with that, possibly why I appreciate languages so much. If you think about it, any distinctive culture in the world can be separated from another simply by the language they speak, of course globalization and colonial conquests have changed this a bit in the America's especially, but it's still true.

P.S.  I doubt any of my friends know what Catalan is, of course they're High Schoolers and haven't had much international experience, but I still think it's common knowledge most should know.


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## panjabigator

A lot of my close friends know nothing about geography, and learning languages sometimes presents itself as a more of a chore in its initial aquisition, so for them, it's simply book learning.  I don't think many of them really realize a lot of the fun and opportunities that they present.  Or how interesting some of the sociolinguistics and politics of language are...

**removes nerd glasses**


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## PianoMan

I agree, language is not only a science, but it's somewhat of an art in my opinion.  It ties in with so many other studies (anthropology, geography, history, psychology, cultural studies, etc.) that it gives a whole new appreciation towards linguistics.  I'm quite certain that will also be my choice for a college major, it's nice to be abe to have a forum like this to be able to talk with others who are actually interested in what foreign language has to offer...(and actually know what Catalan is )


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## panjabigator

Catawhat?

I do believe that future generations will have some more appreciation or at least exposure to languages.  I think opinions are changing.  Children I know are recieving half their day in Spanish now and are learning to speak the language _like the nativs_  Perhaps with them, they wont even think twice about the criticism of learning a language.


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## panjabigator

Also, I have encountered myself in the situation where someone found out I was learning a language, and then suggested their language as more useful.  As I have no goal in life to really learn Chinese, it comes out slightly offensive to them.  Anyone ever had an experience like this one?


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

panjabigator said:


> Also, I have encountered myself in the situation where someone found out I was learning a language, and then suggested their language as more useful. As I have no goal in life to really learn Chinese, it comes out slightly offensive to them. Anyone ever had an experience like this one?


 
Yes! 

I speak Spanish (of course) and English (as you can see  ). People don't criticize you for learning English since it is very useful in the business field. However, we have lots of immigrants from Portugal, China, Japan, and more recently, Haiti.

I, being the pseudo-rebel person I am, chose to learn Venezuelan Sign Language, instead of the sophisticated French or the useful Portuguese. Then, the usual questions followed: "Do you have a deaf relative?" "Are you deaf yourself?" "Why the heck do you want to learn _that_?" "If you're such a language nerd, why don't you learn something useful, for heaven's sake?".

When I decided to learn Haitian Creole, I heard a lot of criticism over how useful that language could be. In fact, only a smaaaaall minority knows that Haitians speak a language other than English or French. 

But what kind of made me upset was when one of the few language-caring friends I have, started telling me things like "Well, I speak French and Italian, both of which were quite useful in my last vacations. Do you plan to spend your next vacations in Haiti? I heard they're going through a civil war or something, be careful!"

Quite deceiving, indeed...


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## HistofEng

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Yes!
> 
> I speak Spanish (of course) and English (as you can see  ). People don't criticize you for learning English since it is very useful in the business field. However, we have lots of immigrants from Portugal, China, Japan, and more recently, Haiti.
> 
> I, being the pseudo-rebel person I am, chose to learn Venezuelan Sign Language, instead of the sophisticated French or the useful Portuguese. Then, the usual questions followed: "Do you have a deaf relative?" "Are you deaf yourself?" "Why the heck do you want to learn _that_?" "If you're such a language nerd, why don't you learn something useful, for heaven's sake?".
> 
> When I decided to learn Haitian Creole, I heard a lot of criticism over how useful that language could be. In fact, only a smaaaaall minority actually knows Haitians speak a language other than English or French.
> 
> But what kind of made me upset was when one of the few language-caring friends I have, started telling me things like "Well, I speak French and Italian, both of which were quite useful in my last vacations. Do you plan to spend your next vacations in Haiti? I heard they're going through a civil war or something, be careful!"
> 
> Quite deceiving, indeed...


 

sak pase?  

si tienes preguntas sobre el idioma, no dudes en preguntarme!


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## mytwolangs

panjabigator said:


> Also, I have encountered myself in the situation where someone found out I was learning a language, and then suggested their language as more useful. As I have no goal in life to really learn Chinese, it comes out slightly offensive to them. Anyone ever had an experience like this one?


 
Yes, I keep hearing about how I should learn Spanish. 
I now agree, it would be useful to flirt with the pretty Mexican lady I work with  

And panja, those nerd glasses are stuck to your head after one of your posts...  ahaha

The thing about learning a new language is one really has to be interested and want to do it. It is not like a list of facts that one memorises. 
You really have to think to comprehend a new language, and not just think, but actually alter your way of thinking... you must make your own observations and correlations. I use many of my own with French. 

What I don't understand is why anyone would be bothered by someone else's desire to learn a new language? No matter what one is learning about, no harm comes of gaining knowledge. 

Someone told venezuelan sweetie "why not learn something useful"? Well, language is useful, and unlike some areas of study, language knowledge is not obselete in a year or two.


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## User1001

panjabigator said:


> How is your interest in language, whether it be a foreign one or your own, interpreted by your friends or family? Do you ever feel that you are criticized for studying your own or taking interest in linguistics?



Whenever I am speaking in a language other than English, I am greeted with the response, "This is America, speak English!" I personally take that as criticism, especially when I get mocked and criticized for learning a language that is spoken outside the United States. Then there are, of course, some people that find my language studies to be fascinating - those people are also other polyglots. Eh, I suppose some people just don't understand...



panjabigator said:


> What do you think? How is language learning interpreted over there? Does its acceptance differ between youth and elderly? And do friends ever pass similar comments?



Yes! I can speak with my Grandfather in German and he has no problem with it, though his German is very limited. His father spoke German, Romanian, and Hungarian. I personally think that the trait was passed down through him to me, because nobody else in my family speaks or even studies a language other than English. Anyway, getting to my point, I think that language studies are more widely-accepted by the elderly than the youth, because the youth feels that one language should be kept in one place, and that's the end of it. For example, in these days (to a teen), you must go to Russia to speak Russian, Italy to speak Italian, Brazil to speak Portuguese; but none of them take the time to see all the immigrants directly in front of them that they can speak the language with.


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## panjabigator

> Someone told venezuelan sweetie "why not learn something useful"? Well, language is useful, and unlike some areas of study, language knowledge is not obselete in a year or two.



And while we are at it, what exactly _is_ useful mean anyway?  What's useful to her isn't necessarily to me.  And Catalan, although perhaps not all that practical for me (considering the likelihood of me moving to Barcelona being slim at best) is really quite useful.  I love learning it, it makes me happy (use 1).  It allows me to connect to other foreros in their native tongue (use 2).  It allows me to read a new literature (use 3).  And it allows me to tie in my Spanish and look forward to learning French (use 4).  Need I progress further?

   Note:  I am so tired that I actually wrote the word practical as practable!


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## Eso

People usually regard my language learning as a folly, unless it's some language the current masses are learning as well. I think the thing with people who aren't enthusiastic learners is that they usually only think learning a foreign language is worthwhile if the language has a "practical" use. I have many examples...

For Spanish, no one criticized me negatively because here in the US, it's rapidly becoming a widely spoken language; especially down here in the South.

For Korean and Vietnamese, both my parents and some friends of my parents' told me it was very useless of me to learn these languages. Yes, they actually said "why are you learning [so and so language]? It's useless"

For Japanese, my parents thought it was useless. This time, they asked me, "why aren't you learning your native language?" (My native language is Chinese, although I'm not fluent)

For Mandarin, my parents didn't blink an eye. But they are also very lazy when it comes to teaching. However, they did mention that "the rest of the world is learning Mandarin and it will prove very useful in business." What really bugs me is that everybody is learning Mandarin because it's a fad. But I suppose it was the same for English decades ago.


I like learning langauges, so I pick up whatever I feel like learning. Sometimes, the usefulness of a language does have some influence over my decisions. I want to be able to practice it with a native speaker and be able to use it on a frequent basis, rather than learn it and have it rot from not using it.
Overall, my parents support my learning adventures. They only have one piece of advice for me: do things one at a time!


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

HistofEng said:


> sak pase?
> 
> si tienes preguntas sobre el idioma, no dudes en preguntarme!


 
Oh thank you very, very, very much!  It is soo hard to find some help with Creole from a Spanish speaking person!  Now I know who to bother, thanks again!  



tspier2 said:


> Whenever I am speaking in a language other than English, I am greeted with the response, "This is America, speak English!"


 
Yeah, I know what you mean.  In my case is "esto no es gringolandia ni una isla llena de negritos, así que me hablas en español!"  Gosh!  How I hate that narrow-minded, pseudo-racist, ignorant point of view!  It's so annoying...



mytwolangs said:


> The thing about learning a new language is one really has to be interested and want to do it. It is not like a list of facts that one memorises.
> You really have to think to comprehend a new language, and not just think, but actually alter your way of thinking... you must make your own observations and correlations.
> 
> What I don't understand is why anyone would be bothered by someone else's desire to learn a new language? No matter what one is learning about, no harm comes of gaining knowledge.


 
Exactly.  Learning a language keeps your mind sharp, as many have posted already.  It also helps you be aware of whatever cultural differences and resemblances between your homeland and the country where your target language is spoken.  That is a useful thing to me...



> Someone told venezuelan sweetie "why not learn something useful"? Well, language is useful, and unlike some areas of study, language knowledge is not obselete in a year or two


 
Yes, of course.  However, it can be obsolete _for you_ if you don't practice it regularly.  And, in order to practice it, you should talk to the natives.  So again, we are into the cultural aspect of it...


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## CiegoEnamorado

If I were asked to trace back the point from which my interest in language stemmed, it would probably have to be when I was in elementary school. My parents hired a babysitter to come watch us every day after school while they were at work. Occasionally, he would take us to the video store to rent videos and videogames. One day, he came by with the movie "Once Upon A Time in China." Being a little kid and the "average" American, I thought Mandarin was funny-sounding language, like it was just gibberish that was made up. As he began to bring over more films in Mandarin and occasionally Cantonese, I grew fond of them. However, I never had the desire to learn either dialect.

Later, when I was in fourth grade, my teacher announced one day that we would be having a visitor coming regularly to our class, and that she was from another country. I was excited, curious, and nervous. He kept us in suspense until the day she arrived. I don't recall her name, unfortunately, but she had a great impact on my life. She came from Japan, and taught us about Japanese language and culture. She also taught us origami regularly--an art that I continue to practice even to this day! I was deeply impressed with the way she acted, and the culture, yet I still had no desire to learn a foreign language, even Japanese.

Then, before I left elementary school, they implemented a time-slot in the classes to teach Spanish. Actually, all they really did was put in a video of some 50-year-old dude who would teach basic Spanish phrases and words, and we would have to participate with the video. None of it really stuck with me, but I was impressed by it. I had no desire to learn Spanish, much like I had none for the other languages.

At least, that was, until I was about to enter middle school. I had to register for my classes and we were allowed up to two electives. I don't remember what I chose for the first one, but the second one would change my life. I glanced over at the foreign languages and thought, "hey, it'd be cool to learn one, but really difficult!" My mom, who was sitting beside me, suggested that I take Spanish because it would be easy and useful, plus with my Spanish blood, it would help me to have a better understanding of myself. So I took it.

From there, my passion grew. I excelled from the first day of class. I slept, ate, and breathed Spanish. I dedicated so much time to it that I was literally on the verge of failing every one of my classes, but I was able to master most of the stuff that you had to know when you finished with Spanish 7-8 by the time I was in 3-4! Erm, but anyway, in an effort not to gloat, it was not only the Spanish language itself but also my teachers. My 3-4 teacher once suggested that I should be a linguist, or a translator/interpreter. I hadn't really thought about what I had wanted to do with my life. It was then that I decided to aim for a career as an interpreter, and to dedicate my intellectual pursuits to language, and to start learning Japanese.

Here I am today, 7 years later still studying Spanish, and just completed my third semester of Japanese at my college. My horizons have expanded greatly. After I began to dedicate my efforts to Japanese, I took an interest in Russian. Though I've not been as studious as I can be with Russian, I would still like to know enough to have a pleasant conversation with a native speaker and possibly someday visit Russia without the aide of a translator or pocket book, or something of the sort. I've also branched out to Mandarin Chinese finally, after my father's coworker suggested it, and Greek (due to a recent discovery of Greek heritage in my family). My main passions are Japanese and Spanish (I especially love Spanish literature), but I just love the inherent complexity of language. So much so that I don't think it would hurt me to even consider a degree in linguistics, a field about which I likewise feel quite passionately. Though my strongest interest is in the field of Historical Linguistics. 

In regards to the types of comments I receive, I haven't received the negative ones that some of you have! I am shocked by some of them, but it does not really surprise me. Often times, I receive encouragement from my mother and always have. She says she can see me getting a Ph.D. in Linguistics. My dad doesn't know too much about linguistics so he doesn't really comment much on it, but he thinks it is great. My friends in high school thought I was a dork since I dedicated so much time to Spanish, but they were later grateful when I was able to save them from failing Spanish.  In college, I love the opportunities I have to meet new and different people from all parts of the world, and the number of languages available to study. Everyone I meet encourages me greatly and thanks to my multilingual-ness, I've made so many friends that I wouldn't normally make. I most certainly do not regret it one bit, and feel that everyone should learn at least another language. It is really quite fulfilling.


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## Atlus

First of all, I actually "lol-ed" at the Paris Hilton comment reaction by Pedro. Witty..... 

And I think languages just have that je ne sais quoi, that thing I can't really put my finger on. They seem almost romantic to me.... I don't relly know what I'm saying, but it juat has this strange effect on me like its magic kind of


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## SofiaB

panjabigator said:


> Very interesting opinions all of you.
> 
> To SD083: I am also studying Catalan, but over here in Florida, barely anyone knows a damn thing about it. I usually hear "You're studying what?" Then I have to bite my tongue and say something atrocious: "It's a language spoken in East Spain
> Catalan is the official/national language of Andorra. It is spoken in France (Perpignan) and Alghero on Sardinia, Italy.
> Also Catalan and Occitan are sister languages differentiated for political rather than linguistic reasons.


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## Anatoli

I can't boast good attitude of my family to my learning foreign languages like Panjabigator. Well, of course any hobby takes time and languages are time and mind consuming.

I have a passion for languages since my childhood - it started with European languages - German, then English. I was best in my school in both. I started German with a private tutor (asked my to find one for me) when I was 8! A bit later we started doing languages offciallly at school but I was bored (too easy) and learned English with the same teacher, asked for transfer to a different group, to be able to learn English. Continued to learn German but more focus on English. When I was 12 learned through a French textbook on my own, then Polish, Czech. I must admit I completely forgot Czech since then as I had no practice.

Started a Uni (languages, of course) in Ukraine - majored in German with English as 2nd language, later added French (2 semesters).

Got interested in Japanese when I was 18, I got my first textbook. I was extremely confused and I had no-one to guide me about how to approach this language, how to memorise characters and how to progress. The resources for learning Chinese and Japanese were scarce outside major centres In Russia, so it didn't go anywhere.

A few years ago my interest to languages has revived and I have been learning Japanese and later Chinese. I have passively (recognition only) mastered around 1,000 characters in each and am now able to strike a conversation, read simple texts. In Japanese I read an article or 2 every now and again using online dictionaries, helping my daughter with her school work and practice Japanese with her. Chinese - I am on New Practical Chinese reader volume 3 now, doing fine, studied through a few textbooks in both Japanese and textbooks, got solid pronunciation and grammar. All I need now is more time and pratice.

Arabic is my language of 2006! Not sure why I started it but I am now fascinated with it. It's a challenging language and I find it more difficult than any other I learned before, although I think someone will say Russian - my native tongue is even more difficult. Or maybe I am just older and have less time?


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## jaxineau

I have a natural and innate desire to learn languages. It is something that I am really ethusiatic about. I like the idea of being able to converse with people with their own language that nothing will be lost through translation. I also love to see what the culture is behind each language and how it affects each language, as well as the effects language has on people in the country. I love to study the structure and sounds of the languages too. I think that learning a language not just mean to speak and write fluently but also to know the culture, history and the differences behind such language and its dialects. Still in high school, my school offers a very limited number of foreign languages. I am currently taking French in school, along with Japanese with a tutor and Spanish through correspondence, while trying to learn Greek and Portuguese with my friends.
From being able to speak two dialects of Chinese(Cantonese and Mandarin) as my native tongues, I really see how important it is to realize the subtle differences in languages, and it isn't until one learns the language that one gets this subtle difference.
I remember the first time I started learning French. It was solely because I moved to Canada and I had no idea what the teacher was saying during French class. I didn't like it at first, I thought it was a horrible language to learn. Although it was like that as first, I quickly changed my mind about the language. The structure, the vocabulary, the sound, it is the most beautiful language I have ever learned in my life.
I remember how I would go everyday after school to my high school French teacher just to clarify questions I have for French. I make francophone friends to practice my French. I watch francophone films to train my listening skills. French has now become such big part of my life.
As of now, I speak fluent English, Cantonese and Mandarin, Conversational French and Japanese and some Spanish. I wish that in the future I will be able to excel in these languages to an interpreter's level, as well as continually learning of lot of the other languages, like German, Dutch, Polish, Slovene, Italian, Russian, Egyptian and probably ultimately Latin and Ancient Greek. Thats just a goal however. My brain maybe too small for that much infomation to be taken in.


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## Arianton

I speak around 7 languages quite well and I was brought up around languages. Both my parents are in careers that deal with multi-language and I guess it doesn't phase me.  Americans are always impressed and always seem to say "well you must be super smart" but it isn't like I learned them on my own. I learned these languages through my environment and my up bringing.


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## confusion

I envy you all so much. You seem to show a great interest in foreing languages and this is enough for you for starting courses or teaching yourselves new languages.

What about me? I only speak English and - despite I was abroad for 5 months and studied in that language - I am not confident anymore and I know I always make lots of mistakes.
I was thought German for 12 years at school and due to a bad teacher I had during high school, I lost all the interest I used to have in that language (and all my German knowledge too). Now I'm planning to take classes of German next year, even if I often think I should improve my English to reach an high level before "starting" studying a new language. I'm too busy with university and to lazy (also) to teach myself.

Let's hope in the new year I'll be able to take at least a couple of courses and then go to Germany and improve my skills or go to another country to improve my English. 

...and sorry for my poor English!


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## Athaulf

confusion said:


> What about me? I only speak English and - despite I was abroad for 5 months and studied in that language - I am not confident anymore and I know I always make lots of mistakes.


Here's my advice, for what that's worth.

Frankly, if you lack confidence, your language will _never_ improve. When learning a foreign language, everyone has to pass through a long period of partial fluency, in which one constantly makes mistakes -- but the only way to improve is to continue practicing incessantly. Furthermore, if you're afraid to make mistakes and think too much about grammar when you speak, you'll end up sounding worse than if you were making more mistakes but still speaking quickly and confidently. Just learn as much vocabulary as you possibly can and speak confidently without worrying too much about grammar or nuances of meaning. Those will come naturally later.

When talking to native speakers (or other fluent speakers) in a foreign language in which you lack perfect fluency, you might think that you're coming off as funny or foolish, but that's not the case with the vast majority of people. People who are willing to talk to you in their native language -- instead of switching to a common language like English -- will normally highly appreciate your efforts. In fact, your problem might be that they'll be reluctant to correct your mistakes out of politeness. 

In fact, I would say that the above partially explains why Europeans are usually much better at learning English than other languages. Since most of the complexity of English stems from its abstruse syntax rules, rather than complex morphology, people often overestimate their proficiency in English, because they are blissfully unaware of the mistakes they're making. (I've never seen people refusing to admit that they're getting the German cases or the Spanish conjugations wrong, but I've seen plenty of people believing that their horrible pidgin English is "fluent." ) Armed with such (over)confidence, they aren't afraid to practice the language a lot, and thus end up improving over time. 




> I was thought German for 12 years at school and due to a bad teacher I had during high school, I lost all the interest I used to have in that language (and all my German knowledge too). Now I'm planning to take classes of German next year, even if I often think I should improve my English to reach an high level before "starting" studying a new language. I'm too busy with university and to lazy (also) to teach myself.


Without teaching yourself, there's no way you'll ever approach fluency, regardless of how many classes you take and how good your teachers are. Acquiring enough vocabulary and getting the natural feel for the grammar is impossible without a lot of practice outside class. If you're not going to practice the language on a regular basis, classes are just a waste of time and money. They will give you a systematic exposition of the grammar, an opportunity to ask explanations from an expert, and some kickstart in the very beginning, but you always have to do the real work in your free time. 

As for your English, my opinion is that it's good enough that you can just leave it to improve naturally through practice. However, I'm neither an expert nor a native speaker, so others might perhaps disagree.


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## Lugubert

Athaulf said:


> Here's my advice, for what that's worth.
> 
> Frankly, if you lack confidence, your language will _never_ improve.


Thank you. That was what I needed right now.

My Hindi is atrocious. Never the less, in a few crucial cases, when ultimately pressed, it helped me to get what I wanted and/or wished to find during my recent two months in India. Not really because of any _confidence_, but I somehow jumped into the deep end. The resulting dog paddle paid off.

For the right now part, I'm now rehearsing Standard Chinese grammar. My listening comprehension is rather below zero, and, for example, native speakers have told me, on more than one occasion when I've really tried to pronounce a tone 4 syllable, "No, not 2!"

I'm now hoping that I'll be admitted to a 4th semester Chinese Internet based course in contemporary written Chinese at a university in Sweden. If so, I hope to summon up enough _confidence_ to travel China on my own in early '08 as a 64 years old backpacker.


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## confusion

Athaulf said:


> Here's my advice, for what that's worth.
> 
> Frankly, if you lack confidence, your language will _never_ improve. When learning a foreign language, everyone has to pass through a long period of partial fluency, in which one constantly makes mistakes -- but the only way to improve is to continue practicing incessantly. Furthermore, if you're afraid to make mistakes and think too much about grammar when you speak, you'll end up sounding worse than if you were making more mistakes but still speaking quickly and confidently. Just learn as much vocabulary as you possibly can and speak confidently without worrying too much about grammar or nuances of meaning. Those will come naturally later.
> 
> When talking to native speakers (or other fluent speakers) in a foreign language in which you lack perfect fluency, you might think that you're coming off as funny or foolish, but that's not the case with the vast majority of people. People who are willing to talk to you in their native language -- instead of switching to a common language like English -- will normally highly appreciate your efforts. In fact, your problem might be that they'll be reluctant to correct your mistakes out of politeness.
> 
> In fact, I would say that the above partially explains why Europeans are usually much better at learning English than other languages. Since most of the complexity of English stems from its abstruse syntax rules, rather than complex morphology, people often overestimate their proficiency in English, because they are blissfully unaware of the mistakes they're making. (I've never seen people refusing to admit that they're getting the German cases or the Spanish conjugations wrong, but I've seen plenty of people believing that their horrible pidgin English is "fluent." ) Armed with such (over)confidence, they aren't afraid to practice the language a lot, and thus end up improving over time.
> 
> Without teaching yourself, there's no way you'll ever approach fluency, regardless of how many classes you take and how good your teachers are. Acquiring enough vocabulary and getting the natural feel for the grammar is impossible without a lot of practice outside class. If you're not going to practice the language on a regular basis, classes are just a waste of time and money. They will give you a systematic exposition of the grammar, an opportunity to ask explanations from an expert, and some kickstart in the very beginning, but you always have to do the real work in your free time.
> 
> As for your English, my opinion is that it's good enough that you can just leave it to improve naturally through practice. However, I'm neither an expert nor a native speaker, so others might perhaps disagree.


 
Thank you very much for your advice. Yuo're totally right when you say that taking classes is useless if you don't practise a language. This is exactly why I'd like to go abroad again. When I was abroad my English used to be much better and obviously I felt much more confident. My problem is that I can't practise it and so, when I meet a person who speaks English for me it's difficult even finding the words (and since I never move to other countries the probabilities of speaking English for a student as I am are low at the moment).

Let's hope this forum will be a way to improve or at least refresh my English...and about German I anyway need to be taught. 

Thanks again!


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## Lugubert

Personal testimony, this time about European languages only.

I had had German for six years in high school. My marks were pretty good, but I wasn't confident at all in real life.

I managed to get a summer job at a German (very well known) company in my field of chemistry. Very self-concious during the first few days, but then I thought I detected a couple of grammatical errors from natives. What the hell, I thought, they never the less survive, so why shouldn't I?

From that day on, I concentrated on being understood, not on being scholarly correct. That had interesting side effects. A few years later, I worked during summer recess at a chem lab in Switzerland. I liked the work and the people and vice versa, and had a chat with their personnel department, trying to secure a permanent place there.

After having discussed different possibilities, the guy found me out: Hey, you're no German citizen, are you? I was immensely proud that my German had worked that far, but as disappointed that the Swiss laws at that time didn't allow me a work permit.


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## Athaulf

confusion said:


> Thank you very much for your advice. Yuo're totally right when you say that taking classes is useless if you don't practise a language. This is exactly why I'd like to go abroad again. When I was abroad my English used to be much better and obviously I felt much more confident. My problem is that I can't practise it and so, when I meet a person who speaks English for me it's difficult even finding the words (and since I never move to other countries the probabilities of speaking English for a student as I am are low at the moment).


 
For what that's worth, I would say from your writing that you underestimate your English. I'm currently doing a Ph.D. at an English-speaking university, and many of my colleagues here are doing just fine with English that's nowhere as good as yours. I've even seen documents produced by native speakers that make your posts look truly exemplary.

In fact, the first time I skimmed over your last post, I honestly understood that you were a native English speaker complaining that you've never managed to learn any foreign language at all.  Now when I look at your posts more carefully, I do see some mistakes betraying that you're not a native speaker, but they're nothing to be worried about. 

As for the practice, even if you don't have the opportunity to find any English speakers around, just the Internet gives you plenty of opportunity for listening, reading, and writing English (in addition to movies, music, etc.). I would venture to say that once you master those three aspects, speaking is not that hard to master. Before I moved to Canada, I had actually had very little practical experience in speaking English (and almost none with native speakers), but I had very little trouble with speaking even in the very beginning, since I had practiced reading, listening, and writing on a daily basis for years. 

Internet forums are especially good in that regard, since the language used there is probably the closest thing to the everyday spoken language that you'll ever see in writing. For this reason, I would even recommend you to participate in some forums where the spirit of discussions is less formal and polite than in this one.


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## confusion

Athaulf said:


> For what that's worth, I would say from your writing that you underestimate your English. I'm currently doing a Ph.D. at an English-speaking university, and many of my colleagues here are doing just fine with English that's nowhere as good as yours. I've even seen documents produced by native speakers that make your posts look truly exemplary.
> 
> In fact, the first time I skimmed over your last post, I honestly understood that you were a native English speaker complaining that you've never managed to learn any foreign language at all.  Now when I look at your posts more carefully, I do see some mistakes betraying that you're not a native speaker, but they're nothing to be worried about.
> 
> As for the practice, even if you don't have the opportunity to find any English speakers around, just the Internet gives you plenty of opportunity for listening, reading, and writing English (in addition to movies, music, etc.). I would venture to say that once you master those three aspects, speaking is not that hard to master. Before I moved to Canada, I had actually had very little practical experience in speaking English (and almost none with native speakers), but I had very little trouble with speaking even in the very beginning, since I had practiced reading, listening, and writing on a daily basis for years.
> 
> Internet forums are especially good in that regard, since the language used there is probably the closest thing to the everyday spoken language that you'll ever see in writing. For this reason, I would even recommend you to participate in some forums where the spirit of discussions is less formal and polite than in this one.


 
Thank you so much for everything you wrote (especially for the compliments).   
I'll try to do my best to partecipate in discussions which need more care than I usually put in writing on forums (especially on the Italian ones!).
Honestly I hope that on this forum I'll also find somebody to chat with (or even to talk to, by internet calls), in order to improve my speed in thinking and writing or speaking English too. 

Thanks again!


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