# Hindi, Urdu: Infinitive used as imperative



## Kahaani

Hi,

I learned that you can use the infinitive of a verb in Hindi/Urdu as imperative, i.e. "tell me" = _"mujhe bataanaa".

_(Also, could_ "mujhe bataanaa" _be mistaken for_ "mujhe bataa, naa?"_ as in "tell me, won't you?" or does such a form not exist in Hindi/Urdu?)

I was wondering if this form changes depending on the gender of the person you're saying it to. I thought not since this isn't the case with the other forms of imperative, but I think this certainly is the case with "_mar jaanaa/jaanii. _A common expression I believe which is used to prevent jinxing someone. Further elaboration on the matter would be much appreciated. 

Thank you,


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## eskandar

Kahaani said:


> could_ "mujhe bataanaa" _be mistaken for_ "mujhe bataa, naa?"_ as in "tell me, won't you?" or does such a form not exist in Hindi/Urdu?


I don't think they could be confused because the intonation and syllable stress are quite different between the two.


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## littlepond

I don't think infinitive can be used in imperative form; I think it's always "bataa, naa" (as in, "bataa naa, yaar" - come on, tell me, buddy). A clue: you cannot say "bataanaa" when you are addressing someone as "aap". It will then be "bataaiye, naa" (and "mujhe bataaiyegaa"). Maybe it's the omission of subjects that makes seem something as imperative: [tu] mujhe bataanaa, and so on.

I didn't understand the "mar jaanaa" bit. We use "mar jaa tu naa to" for cursing someone. What about the jinx?


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## eskandar

littlepond said:


> I don't think infinitive can be used in imperative form


The infinitive can be used as a request form (basically a polite imperative), as below:


> The infinitive may be used as a request that is neutral with respect to honorific levels. It is appropriate for neutral requests or impersonal instructions.
> _chauk se baaeiN *muRnaa* aur sau miiTar aage *chalnaa*_
> _Turn_ left at the crossroads and _walk_ a hundred metres further.
> 
> _paanii piine ke qaabil banaane ke liye use paaNch minaT tak *ubaalnaa*_
> To make water fit to drink, _boil_ it for five minutes.


Ruth Laila Schmidt, _Urdu: An Essential Grammar_ p. 105.


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## Kahaani

I too have learned that you can use the infinitive as an imperative and that it would be as respectful as using the '-o' imperative form. 

In an Indian family I know the grandmother says marjaani after she's complemented a girl (could be her granddaughter) and when I asked why she does this she says it was to prevent jinxing her, I.e. to prevent 'Nazar lagaanaa'. 
It's quite a common expression in Bollywood as well I believe. 

But I was wondering if the gender of the person you're saying it to has any influence on the imperative. It does seem so.


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## littlepond

eskandar jii, aap se ek savaal:

Aapne udahran pesh kiya:

"_chauk se baaeiN *muRnaa* aur sau miiTar aage *chalnaa*_
_Turn_ left at the crossroads and _walk_ a hundred metres further."

Kahiye ki aap ek solah saal ke larke hain aur raaste par aap kii mulaaqaat ek assii saal ke ajnabii buzurg se hotii hai: kyaa aap upar diye gae bol aise mauqe par un buzurg se keh sakte hain?



Kahaani said:


> In an Indian family I know the grandmother says marjaani after she's complemented a girl (could be her granddaughter) and when I asked why she does this she says it was to prevent jinxing her, I.e. to prevent 'Nazar lagaanaa'.



I have never heard it: so I'm opening a new thread to discuss this, Kahaani jii. Ummeed hai ki aap bhii us mein hissaa lengi.

EDIT: Here is the new thread for the expression.


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## Faylasoof

eskandar said:


> ....
> The infinitive can be used as a request form (basically a polite imperative), as below:
> Ruth Laila Schmidt, _Urdu: An Essential Grammar_ p. 105.
> 
> 
> 
> The infinitive may be used as a request that is neutral with respect to  honorific levels. It is appropriate for neutral requests or impersonal  instructions.
> _chauk se baaeiN *muRnaa* aur sau miiTar aage *chalnaa*_
> _Turn_ left at the crossroads and _walk_ a hundred metres further.
> 
> _paanii piine ke qaabil banaane ke liye use paaNch minaT tak *ubaalnaa*_
> To make water fit to drink, _boil_ it for five minutes.
Click to expand...

 eskandar SaaHib, you correctly point out that we do use the infinitive as an imperative – and we use it all the time!

The examples you present are good except whether this is regarded as _polite _or _informal _(even rude, for some) depends on where the addresser and addressee are from. We would regard these as examples of (very) informal address and would use them to, say, talking to a junior.
(An example of the polite equivalent forms would actually be using the subjunctive: _chauk se baaeiN muR jaa’ eN / muReN*….*_  We even have a thread on this usage of the subjunctive. Plus there are other ways of saying the same in a polite manner, e.g. _muR jaa’iye / muR’iye _– these are polite indeed, although this is not the main topic of the thread so we needn’t bother with these anymore.)

Having said all this, you are indeed correct that the infinitive _is _used as an imperative, and where we are from it is used when addressing juniors or when talking to someone with whom you happen to be very informal with. Here are more examples (with added info below for those who may not know):

_har roz waqt par khaanaa   *khaanaa*!_ <- First _khaanaa_ is of course a noun and the second one an infinitive used as an imperative!!
Have your meals on time everyday!

_har roz waqt par dawaaa  *khaanaa* / *piinaa* !_ <- Both _*khaanaa*_ and _*piinaa*_ are infinitives used here as imperatives. 
Take your medicine on time everyday!

Same below:
_skuul waqt par *jaanaa*_!
Go to school on time!

_yeh Dharuur *paRhnaa*!_
You must read this!

Etc., etc.


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## littlepond

So, even though you can use these only in informal constructions, you are classifying it as "infinitive": interesting! And how does it get determined that it's not "tum khaanaa" with the "tum" omitted, but the infinitive "khaanaa"?


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## littlepond

^ Just to add, these are the most common forms of imperatives that I hear:

vahaan achhii tarah kaam kariyo/karnaa (tu level)
vahaan achhii tarah kaam karnaa          (tum level)
vahaan achhii tarah kaam kariye gaa     (aap level)

My question is: if "karnaa" is infinitive, from where do "kariyo" and "kariye gaa" appear? Or, again, can you use "karnaa" for someone you are doing "aap" to? I don't think so: so how infinitive?


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## Faylasoof

littlepond said:


> So, even though you can use these only in informal constructions, you are classifying it as "infinitive": interesting! And how does it get determined that it's not "tum khaanaa" with the "tum" omitted, but the infinitive "khaanaa"?



" An alternative to the polite form of the imperative ending in '-ie' is _provided by *the infinitve*_

Please don't forget.        Na bhuulie --- Na bhuulnaa " *

(*A Textbook of Urdu In the Roman Script by J. Willatt, Page 107* )

[* Original transliteration slightly modified to conform to the transliteration rules that some of us use here.]


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## littlepond

But we also say "aap bhulnaa nahin": "naa bhulnaa" would simply be the sentence with the subject "aap" omitted, a usual thing in Hindi. I hope someone can come out of the grammar books and give examples where it's clear that why are they considering the infinitive as imperative. Just because a grammarian says so doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile, let's see the imperative for "hum". Can we say "chalnaa?" instead of "chalen?"? I don't think so. "kaam karnaa?" instead of "kaam karen?"? I don't think so.


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## Dib

littlepond said:


> But we also say "aap bhulnaa nahin": "naa bhulnaa" would simply be the sentence with the subject "aap" omitted, a usual thing in Hindi. I hope someone can come out of the grammar books and give examples where it's clear that why are they considering the infinitive as imperative. Just because a grammarian says so doesn't mean anything.



To be frank, your objection/question is not clear to me:
1. Do you think, it is objectionable to call chalnaa, karnaa, etc. infinitive?
2. Do you think, the meaning implied by "jaanaa" in "tum kal ghar jaanaa" is not (future) imperative?
3. ...? (I don't know, any other objection?)



> Meanwhile, let's see the imperative for "hum". Can we say "chalnaa?"  instead of "chalen?"? I don't think so. "kaam karnaa?" instead of "kaam  karen?"? I don't think so.



Of course, no. The infinitive is a (rough?) replacement only for the 2nd person imperative.

~~~~~

To me, personally, the infinitive used in 2nd person imperative sense has a clear future overtone, like the -iegaa form. So, it is not perfectly interchangeable (for me) with tum jaao, tuu jaa, aap jaie/jaaeN. For me, it is useable for all - tuu/tum/aap, though the aap jaaiegaa form sounds more respectful than aap jaanaa.

The distinction of future and neutral imperatives, in my case, may, however, be an interference from Bengali.


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## littlepond

^ Dib jii, I found it objectionable to call them "imperative" in the sense that there is a subject (as in "aap baaye murnaa, phir aap mere dost se puchhnaa ki vahaan billuu naaii kahaan raihtaa hai" and so on). However, on thinking further, the sense of course remains imperative (advice, order, exhortation, etc.), and after all omitting subjects is just a style sometimes ("you do it!" is almost same as "do it!" but both do remain in imperative mood). However, in French for example, that is not the case: you cannot have the subject if the sentence is in the imperative mood! Maybe that is what got me confused.

By the way, I also see the implicit future overtone in the infinitive form used in this sense, and "tum jaanaa" is not interchangeable with "tum jaao" for me as well.


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## Dib

littlepond said:


> However, in French for example, that is not the case: you cannot have the subject if the sentence is in the imperative mood!



ahh, I see. True for French. But this is not really universal, as you have rightly figured out in the rest of your post. Interestingly, in German polite imperative, for example, you cannot delete the subject, e.g. Parlez = Sprechen Sie! Dites = Sagen Sie! ... That also brings to my mind, German also has a tendency of using infinitives instead of imperatives, especially in officialese... Anyways, that's degression...



> I also see the implicit future overtone in the infinitive form used in  this sense, and "tum jaanaa" is not interchangeable with "tum jaao" for  me as well.



Cool. So, it was not a Bengali interference after all.


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## Kahaani

Now that we have indeed established that the infinitive can be used as an imperative, could someone please elaborate on wether this form is gender dependant?


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## littlepond

^ No, of course not, Kahaani jii: the infinitive will remain as it is here regardless of the gender of the person being addressed.


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## Kahaani

So how would this account for "mar jaanaa/jaanii"? I might have been mistaken about its usage but I'm sure it's a popular phrase used for swearing. It even is the name of a song in the movie "Billu Barber".


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## Faylasoof

Kahaani said:


> So how would this account for "mar jaanaa/jaanii"? I might have been mistaken about its usage but I'm sure it's a popular phrase used for swearing. It even is the name of a song in the movie "Billu Barber".


 mar jaanii is not Urdu proper! mar jaanaa = to die, this is proper, grammatically sound infinitive. But the former (mar jaanii) isn't something from the Urdu lexicon. Nor do I believe it is standard Hindi.

I notice that you are based in Netherlands where many Bhojpuri speaking people from Surinam (originally, mostly from Bihar) are found. Could this family you mentioned in the other thread be Bhojpuri speakers. Not sure if this expression is used in that language but that might be one possibility one can look into.


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## Wolverine9

Kahaani said:


> So how would this account for "mar jaanaa/jaanii"? I might have been mistaken about its usage but I'm sure it's a popular phrase used for swearing. It even is the name of a song in the movie "Billu Barber".



The relevant lyrics from the song are "khasmaaN nuuN khaaye mar jaanii".  That's neither Hindi nor Urdu. It sounds Punjabi.


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## marrish

It's not Urdu but Punjabi, Urdu even does not have retroflex NR like in _marjaaNRii_.

Infinitive is used as a request/imperative or prohibition: _yahaaN sigreT nahiiN piinaa. sab xaanoN ko pur karnaa. udhar mat jaanaa. is ke niiche kuchh nah likhnaa_.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> It's not Urdu but Punjabi, Urdu even does not have retroflex NR like in _marjaaNRii_.
> 
> Infinitive is used as a request/imperative or prohibition: _yahaaN sigreT nahiiN piinaa. sab xaanoN ko pur karnaa. udhar mat jaanaa. is ke niiche kuchh nah likhnaa_.


 I completely agree with you ob both counts marish SaaHib. In Urdu we just don't use the retroflex that you hear in the song where it is clearly jaaNRii.  and the imperative is used as you say and some of us mentioned. 
I had no wish at any time to belabour either points in case people think I'm being arrogant and biased or have a sense of self-importance!


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## Qureshpor

An example from Urdu poetry of the use of the infinitive as an imperative. (The poet is describing some ladies who are enjoying the meal more than showing concern on the sad occasion of a young man's death.)

Raziiyah zaraa garm chaaval to laanaa
Zakiiyah zaraa ThanDaa paanii pilaanaa
bahut xuub-suurat bahut nek thaa vuh
hazaaroN javaanoN meN bas ek thaa vuh
Jamiilah mujhe rauGHanii naan denaa
vuh firnii uThaanaa vuh pakvaan denaa

judaaii meN us kii hai miraa dil diivaanah
kih lagtaa hai achhchhaa nah piinaa nah khaanaa

Mahdi Ali Khan


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## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> I completely agree with you ob both counts marish SaaHib. In Urdu we just don't use the retroflex that you hear in the song where it is clearly jaaNRii.  and the imperative is used as you say and some of us mentioned.
> I had no wish at any time to belabour either points in case people think I'm being arrogant and biased or have a sense of self-importance!


Thank you. I mean it is good to clear some doubts on the forum like this. Regarding your second paragraph I can only say that I thought of addressing both matters as it is known I can speak Punjabi. I am certainly biased towards Urdu as it is my mother tongue and I can't help it but even then, sometimes it is due to say what is Urdu and what is Punjabi - just a mere statement of facts in which there is no room for any bias.


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## littlepond

Wonderful poem, Quresh jii! The interpretation could vary widely though: it reminds me of the girl's mother's (Lilette Dubey's) reaction to her husband's death in _The Lunchbox_.


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## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> To me, personally, the infinitive used in 2nd person imperative sense has a clear future overtone, like the -iegaa form. So, it is not perfectly interchangeable (for me) with tum jaao, tuu jaa, aap jaie/jaaeN. *For me, it is useable for all - tuu/tum/aap, though the aap jaaiegaa form sounds more respectful than aap jaanaa.*
> 
> The distinction of future and neutral imperatives, in my case, may, however, be an interference from Bengali.



*Urdu:*

Yes, I would agree with you that the use of infinitive as an imperative has predominantly a future meaning but if you (God forbid) were about to be hit by a passing vehicle, I would instinctively say to you "*بچنا حُضور*!" This would of course be said immediately in that present time while my stretched arm is keeping you back and preventing you from crossing the road!

Highlighted quote

I would also agree with you on this count. This is what C.M. Naim says about the infinitive in this regard.

"The infinitive by itself, may also be used as an imperative; the implied pronominal referrant being *tum*. In this use, the infinitive indicates more politeness than the subjunctive." (I didn't know about this and who am I to disagree with the this gentleman, as I do not hail from Barabamki!)

Here is an example with "tum".

یوں ہی گر روتا رہا غالب تو اے اہلِ جہاں

*دیکھنا* اِن بستیوں کو *تم* کہ ویراں ہو گئیں

Another example

پس فنا میں یہ چاہتا ہوں کہ میری تربت پہ کوئی لکھ دے

کہ اس طرف سے گزرنے والو کسی سے *تم *دوستی* نہ کرنا*

مضطر خیر آبادی


An example with "tuu"

جو کام مجھ سے نہیں ہو سکا وہ تو کرنا
جہاں میں اپنا سفر مثل رنگ و بو کرنا

پریم کمار نظر

I have already provided a life saving example with "aap"!

Edit: Ruth Laila Schmidt states,

"The infinitive may be used as a request that is neutral with respect to honorific levels". This at the very least implies that it is not disrespectful to use this as an imperative whoever the addressee may be.

Faylasoof SaaHib quotes J. Willat, who translates..."نہ بھولنا" as "Please don't forget".

So respect can be there in the infinitive imperative form whether the pronouns are explicit or implicit and if the gospel according to St. Naim is to be followed, the infinitive form is more respectful than the subjunctive! Saint Willat describes the subjunctive as a "very polite imperative". The equivalent result of both these Saints is that the infinitive form is "very very polite imperative!" I don't know how it bears up with "کیجئے and کیجئے گا" I am afraid.


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