# How common is the personal infinitive?



## vatrahos

Hi, I'm wondering how common it is for people to use the personal infinitive in everyday Turkish.

For example, when you want to ask someone, 

"Do you want to go to the beach?" 

and you include yourself in the verb (i.e., "Do want *us *to go to the beach?"), normally you would say

"plaja gitme*miz*_i_ ister misin?" 

[gitme + first person plural possessive + accusative case]

That's correct, isn't it? But as I look around on the web, I find that this form is pretty rare. Is it more common for people just to say

"plaja gitmek ister misin?", even if they mean "us"? 


Thanks for the help!


p.s.,

In Greek we always use the personal ending 
("Θέλεις να πάμε στην παραλία;" -- "Do you want *us* to go to the beach?")

Yardımınız için teşekkür ederim!


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## ateaofimdomar

Possessive suffixes are used with the infinitive when the subject of the infinitive is different than the subject of the verb of the main clause (ετεροπροσωπία).

Plaja gitmeni istiyorum = *I* want *you* to go to the beach (I want and you are the one who is going)

When both have the same subject (ταυτοπροσωπία), the possessive suffixes are not used.

Plaja gitmek istiyorum = *I* want to go to the beach = I want and I am the one who is going, or both of us are going, if you 're referring to more than one persons. In these cases, context is required.


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## vatrahos

Yes, I know the rule but I'm wondering how common it is *_in practice_*. In every day life, let's say that you and your wife are looking for museums to visit and you find one. You ask her

Θέλεις να πάμε σ' αυτό το μουσείο;

In everyday Turkish, would you say "Bu müzeye gitmemizi ister misin?" or would you say "Bu müzeye gitmek ister misin?"

I ask because I am not finding many examples of the first when I enter it in google ...

I enter "gitmemizi ister misin" and I get only 8 results. When I enter "gitmek ister misin" I get 3.650 results.


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## vatrahos

I guess my question is a little more specific: 

Do we usually use personal infinitives for the _first person plural _when the main verb is first or second person singular?

"Θες να πάμε θέατρο απόψε;"
"Θα προτιμούσα να διαβάσουμε."

Would we say

*"Bu akşam tiyatroya gitmemizi ister misin?"* [or "*gitmek*"?]
*"Οkumamızı yeğliyorum" *or ["*okumayı*"?]

I'm sorry my first question wasn't specific enough. Thanks for the help!


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## ateaofimdomar

I think you should wait for the natives to answer that, from what I've heard though, in cases like the one you mention the sentences seem to include the plural. I think it's very close to "do you want to catch a movie tonight?" or "What do you want us to do? - I'd rather watch some T.V." you often hear from English speakers, who in these cases mean "do you want *us *to catch a movie tonight" etc.


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## Evros

In turkish we are not saying "plaja gitmemizi ister misin?",that would be used if you are asking someone about your(you and someone with you) going to beach ;"plaja gitmek ister misin" is more correct if you are asking someone to go together.

I would rather, "plaja gidelim" = let's go beach ;and for question "plaja gidelim mi?" = shall we go to beach , or something like that


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## Rallino

I'm a native but I don't see where the problem is 

if you want *somebody else* to do the job, you use that person's possessive suffix.

For ex: Ben (senin) Okula gitme*ni *istiyoruz = We want *you* to go to school.

In this sentence, I won't be going to school, it's you alone. I want *you *to do it.

If I'll also do the job with you, then I don't use that possessive suffix, I use the suffix for *biz (we).

*for ex: Partiye katılma*mızı* öneriyorum. I suggest that *we join* the party.
here, I'll do that with other people, so it's *we*.

But, if it's only my opinion and it's me who'll do the job, then I just use the infitinive as in english.

For ex: Okula gitmek istemiyorum. = I don't want to go to school.

or an example that really asks an accusative:

Okula gitme*yi* sevmiyorum. = I don't like going to school.


So if we summarize within a conversation.

X: - (sizin) bize söz verme*nizi* istiyoruz. = I want *you all* to promise us.
Y: - Hangi konuda? = About what?
X: - Para verme*mizi* istemeyin. = Do not ask *us* to give money.
Y: - Biz bunu yap*mak* istemiyoruz zaten. = We do not want to do that anyway.


Is it a bit clear now?


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## tulpan

_1."Bu müzeye gitmemizi ister misin?" or would you say 2."Bu müzeye gitmek ister misin?"_

You could use both and they are both common. The only difference is that in the first sentence you are more clear about the fact that it is both of you.

Do you want *us* *to go* to this museum? (_*gitmemizi *ister misin?)_

In the second example you are simply asking if the person wants to go to this museum.

Do you want *to go* to this museum? (_*gitmek* ister misin?_)


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## tulpan

_1. "Οkumamızı yeğliyorum"   or    2."okumayı  yeğliyorum "_

_1. Here you are saying "I prefer that *we read" (Οkumamızı* yeğliyorum)_

_2. Here you are saying "I prefer *to read"* (*okumayı *yeğliyorum)_

_...so it all depends on what you are trying to say...we together or only I (me)_

_They are both common._


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