# monter au créneau



## Rihsjnap

NOTE DE LA MODÉRATION : Plusieurs fils sur le même thème ont été fusionnés ici.
MODERATOR NOTE: Several threads on the same topic have been merged here.
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Bonjour, 
Je sais qu'une question similaire a déjà été posée, malheureusement, la réponse n'est pas tout à fait celle qui me semble convenir. En effet, je crois que la traduction était plutôt proche de l'expression française familière "ne pas lacher l'affaire". 
Aussi, comment pourrait-ont traduire : 
"La presse européenne *monte au créneau* et se saisit de l'affaire". 
Merci beaucoup de votre aide,
R.


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## edwingill

intervenes


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## doree

Cette expression apparait dans un article du Figaro 

«Le travailleur gagnera ce qu'il est capable de produire» , a ainsi souligné le vice-ministre du Travail, Carlos Mateu. Le numéro deux du gouvernement, José Ramon Machado Ventura, est monté au créneau en clamant qu'il ne fallait «pas avoir peur des hauts salaires». 

Il ne me semble pas que ca veut dire "intervene."


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## ne12345

Leaped in.


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## carolineR

took a public stance ?


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## wildan1

In AE a common way to say this is _the press stepped up to the plate_ (expression from baseball but no longer limited to sports contexts)


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## french&spanishstudent

Hi,

Would anyone be able to translate it in the following context, I'm not sure that the previous responses would apply here (please excuse lack of accents, I can't add them on my computer):

Une poignee de chers confreres, qui n'ont rien a envier auc premiers en matiere de macarons Michelin monterent au creneau...

Merci d'avance

L x


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## carolineR

It seems to me there's no difference here : _leapt in_ but if in doubt, add more context, please:
...monterent au creneau...?? doing what ?


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## bullwinkle

Am daring to put my head above the parapet after an earlier gaffe (apologies)...



I know this comes a bit late for the original request, but might one translate 'monter au créneau' by 'step into the breach'?


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## Teafrog

bullwinkle said:


> … I know this comes a bit late for the original request, but might one translate 'monter au créneau' by 'step into the breach'?


That's an excellent one


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## bh7

One might also say
_The European press leapt to the defence and took up the cause/matter/issue._


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## larrys13

> Le numéro deux du gouvernement, José Ramon Machado Ventura, est monté au créneau en clamant qu'il ne fallait «pas avoir peur des hauts salaires». 

Given the limited context:

The number two in the government, Jose Ramon Machado Ventura, jumped in, shouting that we should't "be afraid of high salaries".

Le Robert: (fig.) s'engager personnellement dans une action, une lutte


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## wildan1

Perhaps a bit more natural-sounding in English:

_José Ramón Machado Ventura, second-in-command in the (current) government,* joined the fray […]*_


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## prplx

Monter au créneau implies to take a stance, to be vocal about something wich you think unfair, to be up in arms...

I am not sure I see that nuance in the suggestions above.


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## EngrProf

I agree with wildan1, "join the fray" is a perfectly natural AE expression. 
[...]

IMHO "join the fray" is a good rendition of *monter au créneau*.


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## bullwinkle

I agree with EngrProf and wildan1. I think 'join the fray' would be appropriate in this case and, as a BE speaker, it doesn't strike me as archaic. 

In response to prplx's comment, I think that 'join the fray' does suggest conflict or taking a stand, as I understand 'fray' to mean conflict or a fight.

Just for the sake of explaining things: 
As to my previous suggestion - 'step into the breach' - that probably is pretty archaic!  I guess I would only use it where a military theme would be appropriate.


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## Emma_Lee

I'm another US English speaker who thinks that "joined the fray" is a perfectly good, current expression, as well as an appropriate translation in this context.


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## chickenlicken

I'm english english, and I think 'joined the fray' is quite good, as is 'to be up in arms', although obviously it depends on the context.


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## Entrains

I like BH7's suggestion but "monter au créneau" also implies that whoever does it sticks his neck out (prend un risque). if this risk notion could be factored in, on the basis of BH7's phrase, I think it would meet the full connotation of the French expression.


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## Bonjules

Hola,

'join the fray' would imply there is a big fight going on.
'Step in the breach' is kind of military.
Aside from Caroline's 'take a public stance' which I think is quite good another
neutral term fairly common in English would be 'weighed in'.
saludos


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## patriciachingiz

I second the suggestion "to stick one's neck out"


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## Bonjules

patriciachingiz said:


> I second the suggestion "to stick one's neck out"



But that, in English, normally implies taking a special risk in exressing an opinion or taking a stand.
Is that the case with m. a. c.?

Edit: Upon re-reading the posts I noted that Entrains suggested just that in March. Do other native speakers agree with that? The reason I am questioning it is that in todays papers, probably LeMonde, there was a reference in connection with the DSK affair where it appeared to be used simply in the sense of 'voiced an opinion'.


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## sklwuk

How would you suggest translating this? I know what the dictionary definition is, but I have a feeling it could be something slightly different in the context below.

Pour des syndicats de médecins, dont certains demandent le retrait du texte, pour les opticiens, pour les internes qui sont particulièrement montés au créneau, c'est la liberté de choix du praticien par le patient qui est menacée. Ils jugent qu'elle sera atteinte si les mutuelles obtenaient le droit de mieux rembourser leurs adhérents qui consultent un médecin qu'elles conventionnent que ceux qui consultent hors réseau.

Thanks


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## Jeanne75

Hello,

It means that they were particularly active in protesting against the proposed law - "monter au créneau" means something similar to "to go to the frontline" in a war context.

Cheers


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## Michelvar

Hi, 

Créneau = crenel like in an old fortified castle. "Monter au créneau" = to climb up to the crenel to defend the castle, and by doing this you put yourself in danger.  

So here, "monter au créneau" means "to put your head over the parapet", to expose yourself to defend your opinion.

[…]


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## sklwuk

Right. I get the idea, but would it be necessary to imply a sense of danger? That the graduate doctors were actually putting their jobs and reputations at risk by adopting this attitude? It makesa difference to the meaning, you see.


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## Michelvar

It is the sense of this expression, but it is a lot used without this sense of danger.

But when you think of it, when you stand for your right openly in front of a government, there is some danger, those in front of you have the power to ruin your life, even in a democracy.

In this case, however, I think that the people "qui montent au créneau" are permanent unionists, so they are quite protected and there is no real danger.


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## Jeanne75

I agree with Michelvar, it's just meaning they are the among the more determined not to give up on that  - it's more of a jawboning story in this context.

Cheers


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## sklwuk

OK, cool. Thanks guys!


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## mmesorel

Circling back to a thread from several years ago. Personally I would say "entered into the fray" rather than "joined the fray", but either way... Here is another example of its current use, "Plusieurs associations, soutenant les adolescentes, montent au créneau." In addition to "entered into/joined the fray", what about "came to their defense" or "stepped up" or "joined the fight"?


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## tartopom

Maybe
_go to the mat_


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## wildan1

_Go to the mat with someone _means enter in combat with someone you disagree with--but it might be misguided.


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## tartopom

But if I do everything I can to _support sb_ or to solve a difficult problem, can't I say 'to go to the mat for sb / sth'?


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## mmesorel

Yes, absolutely. In fact, this is the definition given by Oxford Languages: "
vigorously engage in an argument, especially on behalf of another.
"we will go to the mat for those who are willing to help us out"
So, Tartopom, you're spot on!


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## tartopom

Oh, thanks for the clarification,mmesorel.


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## broglet

This is a supreme example of an expression that can only be understood in relation to its context. Literally it means to climb from the safe interior to the crenellated summit of a castle putting oneself in a position to attack but also becoming more vulnerable.  Usually the context puts the emphasis on attack with varying indications of vulnerability and this should inform the choice of metaphor to use in a translation.


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## Chimel

broglet said:


> Sometimes the context puts the emphasis on attack and sometimes it is more on defence and this should inform the choice of metaphor to use in a translation.


According to me, it rarely puts the emphasis on defence. Cf. Robert's definition in message # 12: " s'engager personnellement dans une action, une lutte"


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## broglet

Je suis d'accord Chimel - j'ai enlevé "defence" dans #36 et je l'ai remplacé avec "vulnerability"


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