# "welk corps, drie ryen dik..." (18th century)



## Manutara

*Related to this thread.
Frank, moderator.
*

Hello, everyone.

I am working on a translation of a 18c. log by Roggeveen. Mainly I translate it from an English version, but I also make a frequent use of the original. There are places where I'm not sure if the English translator was right. Here go the doubtful fragments:

 The context: All the crews of three ships of Roggeveen go ashore, in a military formation.

The original:
Hier gekomen synde, wierd het corps de bataille van alle de Matroosen der drie Scheepen geformeed, de Commandeur, de Capitainen (...) aen t' front, yder voor syn eygen Scheepsvolk: welk corps, drie ryen dik, achter den anderen staende, gedekt wierd door de helft der soldaten.........

The English version:
Having got so far, a corps de bataille was formed up of all the seamen of the three ships, the Commodore, Captains (...) leading, each at the head of his own crew. This column, three ranks in width, occupying a position to the rear of the others, was covered by one half of the soldiers.......

What follows is a description of the right and left wing of soldiers and their respective commanders. There were 134 men in total. I imagine that the captains couldn't be "to the rear of the others", as they were leading their people. I understand that what is being meant by Roggeveen here is that the ranks, or lines, of men, which were three (as there were also three captains), were marching side by side, and in this sense "one after another". Is it possible?

Thank you in advance. Greetings for all,
Manutara


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## Frank06

Hi,

Hier gekomen synde, wierd het corps de bataille van alle de Matroosen der drie Scheepen geformeed, de Commandeur, de Capitainen (...) aen t' front, yder voor syn eygen Scheepsvolk: welk corps, drie ryen dik, achter den anderen staende, gedekt wierd door de helft der soldaten.........



> the captains couldn't be "to the rear of the others", as they were leading their people.


Right. 
And their people being the 'corps the bataille' consisting of the crew (non-soldiers)(?)

I am not a military, so maybe it doesn't make sense. But as far as I understand the text, one corps has three lines, fronted by the captian or Comandeur. The three 'corps' are placed one after the other, each time fronted by their leader.
Something like:
<-----        c|||  c|||  c|||
while they are flanked, covered (whatever that means in the military jargon  by the 'real' soldiers.

My promised two cents .

Take care,

Frank


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## Manutara

Thanks 

And I imagined it like this:

C|||
C|||
C|||

Maybe THAT is the situation described as drie ryjen dik?


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## Manutara

...Or rather:

WING
   c |||
C c |||
   c |||
WING

 Where C  means the Commandeur, i.e. Roggeveen, who appears to be a better soldier than writer 

Sincerely,
Manutara


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## Frank06

Hi,



Manutara said:


> And I imagined it like this:
> 
> c|||
> Cc|||
> c|||
> 
> Maybe THAT is the situation described as drie ryjen dik?


I think I made a mistake indeed. I am pretty sure, even. I just realised that "corps de bataille" doesn't refer to three separate groups (viz. captain + crew), but to the whole formation.
So yes, your explanation makes more sense than my previous one.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Manutara

By the way, how should I pronounce 'Jacob Roggeveen'? And 'Thienhoven' (it was one of his ships)? Because I suppose that the names of other ships, 'Den Arend' and 'De Africaansche Galey' (using his ortography) aren't that complicated for me...

Sincerely,
Manutara


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## ijsjes

Hi Manutara,

Here we go:

Jacob:
J as in *Y*ellow
A as in first name *A*nna
C as in *c*old
O as in *O*scar
B as in *B*anana (but a little softer)

Roggeveen:
R as in *R*omeo 
-----------
There are 2 different R's - check the "huig-r" or "tongpunt-r" topic. 
If you want to do it right then it should be the "tongpunt-r"
-----------
O as in *O*scar
GG as in ?? 
-----------
I don't know how to explain this as I can't write phonetic and I have no good example in a foreign language. Please note that there is a difference in pronunciation of G/GG in Belgium and The Netherlands)
----------
E as in the English word masq*UE*rade
V as in *V*iolent
EE as in the French first name '*E*lise' but longer
N as in wi*N*ter

Thienhoven:
T as in *T*obacco
H = not pronounced
IE as in t*EE*nager but a little bit longer
N as in wi*N*ter
H as in* H*otel
O as in *O*scar but longer
v as in *V*ery
E as in masq*UE*rade
N as in wi*N*ter

I hope it helps you out a bit


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## Manutara

Thank you very much! I suppose GG is pronounced somewhat like H, but much, much harder; am I right? Roggeveen himself was Dutch.
Thanks again, take care,
Manutara


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## ijsjes

Hi there,

You can't even compare it with a hard 'H'.
It's a totally different letter.
I really don't know how to explain the pronunciation.
I guess an audio link would do the trick 

Cheers.


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## Grytolle

It's like a voiced h but with raised tounge


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## Manutara

That tells me what I wanted to know  Thanks.


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