# Monsieur (et Madame) Tout-le-monde



## david franck

Comment traduit-on cette expression française en Anglais "Monsieur Tout-Le-Monde" ?
Merci de votre aide !

*Note des modérateurs :* Plusieurs fils ont été fusionnés pour créer celui-ci.


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## Tresley

Au Royaume Uni on utilise le nom "Joe Bloggs" pour dire "Monsieur Tout-Le-Monde".  Cela veut dire l'homme moyen.
Aux Etats-Unis je crois que l'on utilise le nom "John Doe".

On dit également "the average man in the street"


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## giraffe88

Usage plutot littéraire: "everyman" (vient des pièces de théatre du moyen age)


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## anangelaway

Tresley said:
			
		

> Au Royaume Uni on utilise le nom "Joe Bloggs" pour dire "Monsieur Tout-Le-Monde". Cela veut dire l'homme moyen.
> Aux Etats-Unis je crois que l'on utilise le nom "John Doe".


 
 Ha oui, et pour Madame-Tout-Le-Monde? S'agit-il de Jane Doe? 
And for ''Madame-Tout-Le-Monde'' from UK, how would you call her?


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## Tresley

erm...... I don't think we have a Miss or Mrs Bloggs in the UK!!! However, we do say "*the average woman in the street*". Sorry, but I can't think of anything better than that.


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## syskoll

"John Doe" is rather used in the US legal system to designate an unknown defendant against whom a plaintiff is filing. The term "John Doe" is not really used to mean  "man in the street". For that purpose, the American writers use "Joe Q. Public", "Joe Blow" (from Bloggs probably), or the derogatory "Joe Six-Pack".


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## geve

What does the Q stand for in "Joe Q. Public"?


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## Tresley

I have also heard 'Joe Schmow' (not sure of the spelling) on American TV programmes.  Is that the same as 'the average man in the street'?


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## SylviaF

Quant aux femmes, je crois que "the average woman" ne doit pas exister ... ou en tous les cas on en parle bien moins


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## caselawz28

geve said:
			
		

> What does the Q stand for in "Joe Q. Public"?


It's actually "John Q. Public."  I'm not absolutely sure where Q. came from, but I think it is from "John Q. (Quincy) Adams;"  our sixth President.


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## rsweet

giraffe88 said:
			
		

> Usage plutot littéraire: "everyman" (vient des pièces de théatre du moyen age)



The low-brow version of this could be "an average Joe."


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## giraffe88

"Joe _Schmoe" _says Wikipedia...  I think "average joe" or "average man-on-the-street" fits the bill best  

As for women, there doesn't seem to be one... now I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing? 

[…]


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## Malou

a very old fashioned expression which i love to mean mr. average was' the man on the Clapham omnibus'   now obsolete,no omnibus in sight just a bendy bus!


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## CatStar

Hmm,
after reading the other posts I´m beginning to think that this may be an Irish expression but I often say *Joe Soap* and for a woman *Josephine Soap.*
Think it comes from a comic strip.
Anyhoo check this site out, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placeholder_name#Kadigans_in_the_English_language_for_peoplehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placeholder_name

Cat


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## JerseyRich

I thought  that "John Doe" was a reference to a dead person.
Also, could " Monsieur tout le monde" be "A man of the world"


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## romenk

giraffe88 said:
			
		

> "Joe _Schmoe" _says Wikipedia... I think "average joe" or "average man-on-the-street" fits the bill best


 


You could also say "a regular Schmoe" as in "He's just a regular Schmoe."


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## anangelaway

JerseyRich said:
			
		

> I thought that "John Doe" was a reference to a dead person.


 
That's why I was a little bit confused. I've heard of _John Doe_ in a murder case context where the victim could not be identified yet, therefore a male person was named after a 'John Doe'' and a female person a ''Jane Doe'. 
In a way, I guess it means it could be anyone, no?


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## Croesus

"Any old Tom, Dick or Harry" this is a bit more UK English than Joe Soap etc.
There is even an inclusive version "Tom, Dick or Sally"


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## karmalingua

I have just had a conversation with my family on the subject of Jane Doe equivalent in BE- and the best we could come up with is Mrs Smith or Mrs Jones, these being two very frequently seen British surnames, and the ones most used as pseudonyms when checking into hotels anonymously!

An interesting debate, I'll be glad to read what others come up with 

John/Jane Doe is certainly used to denote an individual of no known identity. Also Mrs Smith/Jones can be adapted to suit the title of the female in question, to maintain political correctness!


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## claudine75

one says "the average joe" meaning monsieur tout le monde.
John doe or Shmoe does also mean MR.X but i think the french version of this would be more  M.Dupont  than M.tout le monde.
id go for the "average joe "or "perhaps the man on the street" depending on the context.


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## MarcB

American English
John/ Jane Doe are centuries old designations for unknown people in legal matters, lawsuits and for dead bodies. I have seen a few references in non legal uses but I would not say they are widely accepted. 

Joe Blow, Joe Schmo (Schmoes pl.) and Joe six pack (from late 1970s, refers to a t-shirt clad working class person who drinks a six pack of beer) are all used for less than average people, all are for males.

The man/woman in the street as suggested seems best. The average Joe is also used.
Any Tom,Dick and Harry is used to show that something can be available to anyone and is nothing special.


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## Rouleau

An interesting note on this John/Joe matter here in the U.S.  "John Q. Public" and "John Doe" are implied to have a higher socioeconomic status *merely* because of "John" rather than "Joe."  "John" is associated with Anglo-Saxon immigrants, whereas "Joseph" is associated with non-English-speaking "second wave" immigrants.  Hence, "Average Joe," "Joe Blow, "Joe Shmoe, "a working Joe," etc.

The only comparison I can imagine for this silly--but nonetheless acknowledged--distinction in the U.K. would be "Jack." 

(Also, on another subtopic of this thread, "androphobes" are people who dislike men.)


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## geve

Interesting indeed! So in AE, changing "John" to "Joe" in any of these expressions will make the average man in the street, an average middle or lower class person?
Or is the other way around: the actual expressions are with "Joe", and using them with "John" instead creates another category: 'the average higher class person'?


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## JerseyRich

I was just looking at a site on the net and Monsieur Tout-Le-Monde was translated as "Mr Everyone".


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## robzuck

_a regular joe_ marche, mais peut etre un peu vieillot


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## Jeanbar

The guy next door.


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## Dynamite

Je vous donne le contexte :

A. Huxley utilise John pour symboliser le "Monsieur tout le monde" des années '30

Merci


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## Gargamelle

"Everyman" would work with this register.  

"Huxley uses John to symbolize the 'Everyman' of the 1930s."

Gargamelle


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## skittlepunk

I would say "regular Joe" or "typical man/person"


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## Malou

_the man on the clapham omnibus_  a bit passé
_joe bloggs_   more common


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## teachedu

Monsieur Madame tout le monde could be in English:

Joe Average, Joe Public (British), John Q. Public (American), Average man on the street....


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## bingaling

"The average Joe Soap", or more familiarly "your average Joe Soap".


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## edwingill

I agree with "the man in the street."


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## Carcassonnaise

edwingill said:


> I agree with "the man in the street."


  I also agree this is the best translation for the context - using modern, American expressions to talk about the 1930s in a presumably formal setting would not be the best choice.


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## tilt

How about _the guy next door_, suggested by Jeanbar?
Doesn't it sound ok to native speaker?


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## Carcassonnaise

Yes, but if you say that Aldous Huxley used a character to epitomise the "guy next door" of the 1930s, it just doesn't (to me) strike the right note.


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## bingaling

Joe Bloggs or Joe Soap, i think the latter is more Irish, and the former international...

John Doe as well in US English, but it has very sinister connotations...


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## Squiggle

bingaling said:


> John Doe as well in US English, but it has very sinister connotations...



Doesn't John Doe only refer to unidentified dead people?


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## tilt

Squiggle said:


> Doesn't John Doe only refer to unidentified dead people?


To amnesic people too, who even don't remember their name, as far as I know.
John Doe for men, Jane Doe for women.


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## Arnold11

Hello again, 
I'd like to say 'monsieur tout le monde'
I thought about, for example : He didn't want to be the man in the street
I hesitate with : He didn't want to be like the man in the street.
Thnak you very much


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## Enquiring Mind

He didn't want to be just another man in the street.
He didn't want to be just another nobody.
He didn't want to be just another Fred (or Jo) Bloggs. (People outside Britain might not understand this one. It is supposed to be a common name, but isn't really.)


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## Uncle Bob

Hello,
Your second idea is better, use "like".
Also, "He didn't want to be (just) any Tom, Dick or Harry" (no "like" then!).


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## floralies

hello 

Je vous ai lu...
Je cherchais aussi à dire "en tant que madame tout le monde" et je suis une femme...donc je ne me vois pas dire:

"as a man on the street" 

Qu'est-ce qui fonctionne?

"As an everyday people (women)"
"As an ordinary girl"?

THanks


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## syskoll

[...]

"As an ordinary girl" works.


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## EXPRESSions

At least in political discourse, we see "ordinary people" quite often. Local variants could be "ordinary Americans," "ordinary Canadians," "ordinary Ontarians," etc.


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## Squiggle

Or, depending on the context of course, "just any old body"


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## Uncle Bob

Malou said:


> a very old fashioned expression which i love to mean mr. average was' the man on the Clapham omnibus'   now obsolete,...!



Just to point out that "the man on the Clapham omnibus" is still, apparently, used in (BE) law.

(Even 9 years after malou wrote it was obsolete!)


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## AmaryllisBunny

I have seldom seen the determiner "the" in front of "average Joe" but rather the possessive adjective "your."

E.g.:
He's not your average Joe.
He's not the average Joe.


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## admetus

> a very old fashioned expression which i love to mean mr. average was' the man on the Clapham omnibus'  now obsolete...
> 
> 
> 
> Just to point out that "the man on the Clapham omnibus" is still, apparently, used in (BE) law.
Click to expand...

Though its use in (BE) law is tied to the concept of a _reasonable person_, which is different from an average person. Its use in ordinary speech to mean an average person is old-fashioned.


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## Gswiss

syskoll said:


> "John Doe" is rather used in the US legal system to designate an unknown defendant against whom a plaintiff is filing. The term "John Doe" is not really used to mean  "man in the street". For that purpose, the American writers use "Joe Q. Public", "Joe Blow" (from Bloggs probably), or the derogatory "Joe Six-Pack".


FYI, I have a Dictionary of American Slang which goes back to 1974. True, things may have changed since. Anyhow, for _John Doe_, it states "Any man at all; the mythical average man. _For the name invented anciently to stand for the fictitious lessee in court proceedings of ejectment and thereafter used wherever a fictitious person is needed._"

For movie (cinema) buffs, probably that's why Frank Capra used the name for the golden oldie _Meet John Doe_.


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