# there's a trick question if I've ever heard one



## VicNicSor

A guy picks up a girl in a bar, takes her to his palce, they talk, drink... She:
-- Why are we talking?
-- [surprised] Because it's... what people do?
-- Don't you want to take me to bed?
-- Wow... Well, *there's a trick question if I've ever heard one*.
Humans, TV series

She's a robot (he doesn't know that), maybe that's why she's so straightforward. Anyway, what does the phrase in bold mean? Could you rephrase it? I get he means that that question is tricky, but why it's phrased in such a way... Thank you.


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## Florentia52

Is your problem with the phrase "trick question," Vic? Here are some helpful threads:

a trick question
a trick question


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## VicNicSor

No, I know what a trick question is, my problem is the whole phrase
Why "there is", why "if-clause"...


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## Myridon

A cat is sitting on the bed.
I say "Look! There's a cat on the bed." pointing at the cat.
Someone asks a question.
I say "There's a question..."   "pointing" to the question.
If I have any idea what a trick question is, then there is one.


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## VicNicSor

Myridon said:


> A cat is sitting on the bed.
> I say "Look! There's a cat on the bed." pointing at the cat.
> Someone asks a question.
> I say "There's a question..."   "pointing" to the question.
> If I have any idea what a trick question is, then there is one.


I.e., "if I've heard a tricky question" = "If I have any idea what a trick question is"... In other words, he himself is not sure if that is so... Right?


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## Glasguensis

It's an idiomatic expression, used to indicate that it is the most striking example of the phenomenon in question which the speaker has encountered. I am more used to the phrasing "there's a xxx if ever I've heard/seen one". It basically functions as an emphatic - it is not  necessarily literally the trickiest trick question he has heard.


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## VicNicSor

What does "to hear one" imply here at all? I mean, does it mean -- "to acquire the knowledge of it"? Like "if I have heard a tricky question, then I know what it is, and then I can tell that this one is a tricky question too", is that it?


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## dojibear

VicNicSor said:


> Well, *there's a trick question if I've ever heard one*.



Don't omit "well", it is part of the sentence and affects the nuance.

As #6 said, the meaning of this is *That is a trick question - very much so. *

The stock expression *That/there is an XXXX if I've ever seen/heard one* is probably hundreds of years old. It doesn't make sense to analyze its grammar because nobody considers its grammar when deciding to say it. They say something we've all said for a hundred years, and we all know what means.


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## VicNicSor

dojibear said:


> The stock expression *That/there is an XXXX if I've ever seen/heard one* is probably hundreds of years old. It doesn't make sense to analyze its grammar because nobody considers its grammar when deciding to say it. They say something we've all said for a hundred years, and we all know what means.


You don't need to analyze grammar since you're a native speaker, but I have to The "if I've ever heard one" can't be just a meaningless number of words. Every if-clause means something...


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## dojibear

VicNicSor said:


> You don't need to analyze grammar since you're a native speaker, but I have to



That makes sense. I understand. Literally, the phrase means: "of *all *the questions I have *ever *heard, *this *one is *the one *that is most clearly *tricky*".

"Well", with the intonation and the pause, probably meant something like "what a surprising change in the conversation".


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## heypresto

dojibear said:


> That makes sense. I understand. Literally, the phrase means: "of *all *the questions I have *ever *heard, *this *one is *the one *that is most clearly *tricky*".
> 
> "Well", with the intonation and the pause, probably meant something like "what a surprising change in the conversation".



That's a good answer if ever I've seen one.


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## VicNicSor

dojibear said:


> "of *all *the questions I have *ever *heard, *this *one is *the one *that is most clearly *tricky*".


But doesn't this change the original much? The idea of "all the questions I've heard" and "most tricky", I don't find this in the OP

------------
"there's a trick question" = "your question is a tricky one"

"*if I've ever heard one*" = now, I don't quite undrstand this part

Could you please explain this if-clause, or just slightly rephrase it? Or tell if I was right in #7?


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## JulianStuart

"If you have ever seen one of Vic's posts" = same grammatical structure


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## Loob

The "... if ever I've heard one" indicates (more or less) "a really good example":
_That's a terrible joke if ever I've heard one = that's a really good example of a terrible joke._

It has more ironic overtones than "a really good example", though.


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## VicNicSor

JulianStuart said:


> "If you have ever seen one of Vic's posts" = same grammatical structure


The problem is: 
"There's a post started by Vic, *if you have ever seen one of Vic's posts*." doesn't make sense to me.

You will agree with me that Vic is such a bore, *if you have ever seen one of Vic's posts*." this make sense to me (though it's not true)

I just don't know how these two parts -- the "there is" part and the "if" part in the OP are connected.



Loob said:


> The "... *if ever I've heard one" indicates (more or less) "a really good example*":
> _That's a terrible joke if ever I've heard one = that's a really good example of a terrible joke._
> 
> It has more ironic overtones than "a really good example", though.



But why does it indicate so? Grammatically... I really fail to understand...


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## 4356

VicNicSor, you can try to be less focused on your question for a little while and then briefly look at it again. You should understand then.

He means "If I have ever heard a tricky question" [and I as everyone else 1000% *have*, it is not even in question], then this is one example of it. The irony is in the part that I have definitely heard/been there and it cannot be otherwise but I still question whether I have by that very 'if'.


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## srk

4356 said:


> He means "If I have ever heard a tricky question" [and you 1000% *have*, it is not even is question], then this is one example of it.


 (except that tricky questions are not the same as trick questions.)


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## JulianStuart

That looks like a post from Vic if ever I've seen one.

= The post is immediately recognizable as having all the characteristics of a post from Vic based on my experience of seeing lots of them in the past.
The irony of saying " if I've ever seen one" is that I have seen many so I recognize it immediately. 

That's as far as I will go in trying to illustrate what has already been said.



Glasguensis said:


> *It's an idiomatic expression*, used to indicate that it is the most striking example of the phenomenon in question which the speaker has encountered. I am more used to the phrasing "there's a xxx if ever I've heard/seen one". It basically functions as an emphatic - it is not  necessarily literally the trickiest trick question he has heard.


Dissection of idiomatic expressions (an expression or phrase that does not follow regular rules of grammar, or one whose meaning cannot be predicted from the meaning of its individual parts)  is a waste of time


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## e2efour

See ...if ever I've heard one..

The expression _if I've ever heard one_ is not familiar to me in BE (see #6) and is perhaps AE.


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## RM1(SS)

e2efour said:


> See ...if ever I've heard one..
> 
> The expression _if I've ever heard one_ is not familiar to me in BE (see #6) and is perhaps AE.


Yes - that's the normal way of saying it in AE.


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## Loob

Intriguing, e2efour.  I've heard it, and I use it: it wouldn't have occurred to me that the expression is AmE rather than BrE.


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## VicNicSor

Thank you all for the replies!
One question:

at e2e4's link:
*That's *a cock-and bull story if ever I've heard one.

or


JulianStuart said:


> *That looks like *a post from Vic if ever I've seen one.



In the OP, "*that was *a trick question if I've ever heard one" would be more logical.
Because "*there's* a trick question if I've ever heard one" sounds like there was a doubt if another such a question existed at all.
What do you think?


Loob said:


> Intriguing, e2efour. I've heard it, and I use it: it wouldn't have occurred to me that the expression is AmE rather than BrE.


And the speaker is BE, too (as everyone in this show)


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## JulianStuart

The words (Now, that's; There's; That's; Etc) that come before "... a trick question if I've ever heard one" don't make  much difference to this expression.


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## Loob

Ah, wait a moment ~ e2efour, are you drawing a distinction between "... if ever I've heard one" and "... if I've ever heard one"?


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## Glasguensis

VicNicSor said:


> What does "to hear one" imply here at all? I mean, does it mean -- "to acquire the knowledge of it"? Like "if I have heard a tricky question, then I know what it is, and then I can tell that this one is a tricky question too", is that it?


You can consider it as "if it were the case that I had only ever heard one trick question in my life up to now, this would be it. In other words, this is the best example of a trick question I have heard. To hear is being used literally here, as is to see in that version of the expression. (For example, "there's a beautiful woman if ever I've seen one.")


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## e2efour

The expression varies, but I couldn't really find any clear AE or BE difference.  See Google Ngram Viewer.

On the Now corpus (an up-to-the-minute amalgam from 20 countries) I found 10 examples of _if I've ever heard one _and 7 examples of _If ever I've heard one._

More common seems to be _if ever I heard one/if I ever heard one _(with the past simple).
My feeling is that _if ever I heard one_ is the more common word order in BE, but other native speakers may not feel the same.


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## VicNicSor

Glasguensis said:


> In other words, this is *the best* example of a trick question I have heard.


Sorry but why "*the best*"? Where is the implication of the superlative (the best/the most) in the OP? Isn't it just "there is a", "that is a"?


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## Glasguensis

Please reread my previous posts : you are missing something. Once again, the hypothesis is that the speaker is imagining having to describe only one question he has ever heard as a trick question : the idea is that he will choose the best example: the one which deserves this description the most.


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## VicNicSor

Glasguensis said:


> Please reread my previous posts : you are missing something. Once again, the hypothesis is that the speaker is imagining having to describe only one question he has ever heard as a trick question : the idea is that he will choose the best example: the one which deserves this description the most.


So you seem to disagree with the rest then, right?


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## Glasguensis

We all agree about the meaning. We are all basically making up a story about the etymology of the expression because you are unable to understand it otherwise. We are not etymological scholars and haven't researched the topic. If you see differences between these invented derivations then feel free to pick one you like. It doesn't change the meaning of the expression.


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## VicNicSor

Glasguensis said:


> We all agree about the meaning. We are all basically making up a story about the etymology of the expression because you are unable to understand it otherwise. We are not etymological scholars and haven't researched the topic. If you see differences between these invented derivations then feel free to pick one you like. It doesn't change the meaning of the expression.



I meant that the idea is that what he has just heard is (1) an example of trick question, (2) the best trick question he's ever heard. You seem to mean '2'.


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## Glasguensis

I do mean 2, but so does everyone else as far as I can see.


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## VicNicSor

As far as I can see - they don't


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## Loob

I think you're  splitting hairs, Vic. It's very difficult to give an exact "translation" of this expression; the people who've answered you are not disagreeing with one another, though our explanations differ in detail.

There really isn't a huge gulf between:
_X is immediately recognisable as a trick question
X is a really good example of a trick question
X is the best example of a trick question I've ever heard._


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## VicNicSor

Loob said:


> I think you're  splitting hairs, Vic. It's very difficult to give an exact "translation" of this expression; the people who've answered you are not disagreeing with one another, though our explanations differ in detail.
> 
> There really isn't a huge gulf between:
> _X is immediately recognisable as a trick question
> X is a really good example of a trick question
> X is the best example of a trick question I've ever heard._



Probably I am splitting hairs, but to me, the idea of "one of many good ones" differs from the idea of "the best one". Of course, we can say that "the best one" is *always *"one of many good ones". However, "one of many good ones" is almost *never *"the best one". Anyway, when you say "something is *a X*" (leaving aside the if clause), it doesn't say that "something is *the best X*"


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## Glasguensis

Like all idiomatic expressions, its exact meaning depends on who is using it. If I say "that's the best cake I've ever tasted", I probably actually mean that it's among the best cakes I have tasted - I haven't been keeping detailed notes. And all of this "best" issue came from us trying to find the grammatical explanation - we all agree that the meaning is "a very good example"


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## VicNicSor

Glasguensis said:


> Like all idiomatic expressions, its exact meaning depends on who is using it. If I say "that's the best cake I've ever tasted", I probably actually mean that it's among the best cakes I have tasted - I haven't been keeping detailed notes. And all of this "best" issue came from us trying to find the grammatical explanation - we all agree that the meaning is "a very good example"


Saying "That's the best cake I've ever tasted", you could mean absolutely anything, even the opposite to it. You may be sarcastic, meaning this cake is the worst cake I've ever tasted. But we're talking about what the phrase itself means. It means literally that the cake you're tasting is the best one. Though we all know it's usually an exaggeration. 
The same with the OP: it's just one of many examples of tricky question, I personally still can't relate it to the idea of "the best I've ever heard".


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## Glasguensis

You're the one who asked for an explanation of the grammar. It is not simply "an" example, though, it is "a good" example.


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## VicNicSor

Yes, a good example, thank you.


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## DerFrosch

VicNicSor said:


> it's just one of many examples of tricky question, I personally still can't relate it to the idea of "the best I've ever heard".


I'm probably not really adding anything, but maybe, just maybe this could be helpful:

_*... if I've ever heard one.* _The word "if" is obviously used rhetorically here; there's no doubt to the speaker's mind that he actually has heard trick questions before. What the speaker is saying is basically: "If this isn't a trick question, then I don't know what is." If someone were to argue against him and claim that the question in question (  ) shouldn't qualify as a trick question, then he would (well, could) respond that in that case no other question he's ever heard deserves to be called "trick question", since to him this was as good an example as he's ever encountered (in reality, as other has commented, it doesn't necessarily have to be _the _very best example). I don't know if that makes any sense.

A related expression, by the way, is "_if ever there was one_" (or "_if there ever was one_").


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## VicNicSor

Thank you !


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