# As a programmer, I work more time than you do.



## screamerer

Hallo, Guten Tag..

Say a friend of mine is a programmer, and so am I.

I go comparing my self to him like this:
_*As a programmer, I work more time than you do.*_ (knowing he's a programmer himself).

The fact that English uses two different words for expressing position (as) and comparison (than) makes it straightforward..

>>Aber wenn ich das auf Deutsch sagen möchte, weiß Ich nicht, was zu tun ist. Denn es gibt nur ein Wort: *als*.

The only translation I can come up with is:
*Als Programmierer arbeite ich mehr Zeit als du.*

The question is: how to express position/role while comparing at the same time?


Vielen Dank.


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## Frank78

"Mehr Zeit" does not sound very good to me. I'd just say:

*Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als du.*


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## Dan2

screamerer said:


> Denn es gibt nur ein Wort: *als*.


In general this is not a problem in language.  ("If I'm *right*, we have to make a *right *turn here.")  In fact, with a slight variation your English sentence turns into exactly the situation you're talking about: "*As* a programmer too, I spend *as* much time at work *as* you do."  No problem.

(However when these two different "als" words would be _adjacent _to each other, I've often seen the "than" word expressed with the alternative word "denn".)


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## Robocop

screamerer said:


> _*As a programmer, I work more time than you do.*_


I understand that you want to say, I spend more time (hours) on programming than you do. If so, I find your wording a bit misleading. I would expect that the comparison in your words does *not *refer to another programmer.
However, I would agree on the following comparison: As a *programmer*, I work more hours than you do as a *teacher*.


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## elroy

Total agreement with Robocop.  "As a programmer" doesn't make sense in that position if both are programmers.  You could say "I work more hours as a programmer than you do" but in that case "as a programmer" is arguably redundant.


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## screamerer

Hi. Thanks, Frank.

So _*als*_ can function as both, prepositional _*as*_ and _*than*_ in the same statement.

But is it confined to that inverted form (switched adverb-person positions)?



Robocop said:


> *I* would expect that the comparison in your words does *not *refer to another programmer.


Hi.

But that's not the intended point of view for that statement. It wasn't meant as an abstract statement taken in absolution, it was meant as being perceived by that _particular listener_.

Its interpretation was reliant on the context in which the speaker and the listener both existed, whereby they both shared the same mood of thinking - he knew I was a programmer, and so did I about him (we were friends). It should be totally understandable to the person to whom it was directed. How a third person would understand it on its own was really of no concern or influence.

Hypothetically speaking, when I started speaking and said that *as a programmer, I ..*, my friend, who was a programmer himself, knew exactly what I meant, and the comparison that was being made registered on the spot  .. .


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## Mori.cze

screamerer said:


> Hi.
> 
> But that's not the intended point of view for that statement. It wasn't meant as an abstract statement taken in absolution, it was meant as being perceived by that _particular listener_.
> 
> Its interpretation was reliant on the context in which the speaker and the listener both existed, whereby they both shared the same mood of thinking - he knew I was a programmer, and so did I about him (we were friends). It should be totally understandable to the person to whom it was directed. How a third person would understand it on its own was really of no concern or influence.
> 
> Hypothetically speaking, when I started speaking and said that *as a programmer, I ..*, my friend, who was a programmer himself, knew exactly what I meant, and the comparison that was being made registered on the spot  .. .



As a programmer myself, I do not understand your point in the least. I absolutely agree with Robocop.


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## screamerer

Mori.cze said:


> As a programmer myself, I do not understand your point in the least. I absolutely agree with Robocop.


What has being a programmer got to do with this..?

Ohh.. I just got it: you're being funny!! How sweeet.. .


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## Mori.cze

You see, you've formulated my point exactly. What has being a programmer got to do with working more hours? 

And NO, I am nowhere near SWEET.


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## Hutschi

screamerer said:


> Hallo, Guten Tag..
> 
> Say a friend of mine is a programmer, and so am I.
> 
> I go comparing my self to him like this:
> _*As a programmer, I work more time than you do.*_ (knowing he's a programmer himself).
> 
> The fact that English uses two different words for expressing position (as) and comparison (than) makes it straightforward..
> 
> >>Aber wenn ich das auf Deutsch sagen möchte, weiß Ich nicht, was zu tun ist. Denn es gibt nur ein Wort: *als*.
> 
> The only translation I can come up with is:
> *Als Programmierer arbeite ich mehr Zeit als du.*
> 
> The question is: how to express position/role while comparing at the same time?
> 
> 
> Vielen Dank.



Hi Screamerer, I see the same problem as Robocop. It does not fit to the situation, at least in the German version. Maybe because of cultural differences?

"Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als du."
Usually it is a very strange sentence if both know that both are programmers.

The "länger" version has a problem on ist own.
To make sense it means I started some weeks or months or years earlier than you to work as programmer.
You have to omit "Programmierer" or change the sentence.

The original version makes only sense if both have more than one profession.

Either:
Ich arbeite jeden Tag länger als du. You can omit "jeden Tag" if it is clear.
Or:
Als Programmierer arbeite ich (fast) jeden Tag länger als du.


Please consider that we want to help, rather than to mock you.

Germans tend to write directly, rather than to hide the meaning. And if there is redundancy we try to interprete it as not redundant, if this is not blocked by context.
If you mention programmer it has to make sense, so we search for the sense.


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## Dan2

1. I agree with those who have said that the OP English sentence might have been better constructed (under the assumption that both speaker and listener are programmers and nothing more).

2. The reason for my parenthetical reservation here is that there is a context in which the sentence is fine exactly as it stands, and that is if the speaker is not _only _a programmer:
"I work so many more hours than you do.  As a _programmer _I work more hours than you do.  And then I spend several hours a day in hardware maintenance."  (Here I'm following Robo's lead, but in a way that leaves the OP sentence unchanged.)

However:
3. All this is beside the point.  The OP question was very clear: screamerer believed there was a problem with using the same form ("als") twice in the same sentence.  In post 2 Frank implicitly answered that it was not a problem in that his suggested translation had "als" in two positions.  (And I tried to suggest in 3 that not only in this particular German sentence, but more generally, repetition of a word-form within a sentence tends to be acceptable.)  (I would add: _especially _"function words".)


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## Hutschi

I want to add that "als" is indeed two different words, homonyms in this case, not just repeatings.
This may be important when you search them in a dictionary, too.


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## JClaudeK

screamerer said:


> So _*als*_ can function as both, prepositional _*as*_ and _*than*_ in the same statement.


That's the point you want to make clear, isn't it?

This might help you:


> Word of the Day – “als”
> *Als* is like one of THE MOST useful words… [...] And no wonder als is so common. It has 3 possible translations: *as, when* and *than*.
> 1) als – speaking in past
> _*Als*_ is THE word you need if you want to specify a point in time in the past by saying what happened.
> 2) als – comparing things
> *Als* is also THE word you need if you want to compare things…  when they are  NOT equal.
> 3) als – the third meaning
> *als* is also used when you virtually assign a role, profession function or general character to a person or a thing.


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## Hutschi

The question is: how to express position/role while comparing at the same time?

There are several possibilities>

1. Two connected main clauses.
Er ist Programmierer und arbeitet länger als ich.

2. Your form:
Als Programmierer arbeitet er oft länger als ich.
Context has to fit. So I included "oft".

3. Directly:

Roland ist Programmierer. Er arbeitet 5 Stunden und ich arbeite 4 Stunden an dem Problem.

4. im Vergleich
Er ist Programmierer und arbeitet im Vergleich zu mir drei Stunden kürzer.

There are more possibilities, may be.

Er ist Programmierer. Er arbeitet mir gegenüber drei Stunden länger. (This is not good Style, however.)

---
Als Programmierer arbeitet er ...
Er als Programmierer arbeitet ... = Er, der Programmierer ist, arbeitet ...


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## screamerer

Thank you all. 
Really thank you, Dan2.


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## Robocop

Dan2 said:


> ... that leaves the OP sentence unchanged.
> However, all this is beside the point.  The OP question was very clear ...


My thoughts:

Is it desirable or useful to leave the *OP sentence unchanged* [as a matter of principle so to speak] even if it is questionable or wrong?

Should we generally refrain from making *comments that are beside the point* with regard to the OP inquiry?
My principle in forum discussions: Point out whatever you can that has room for improvement or correction - it may be welcome.


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## Dan2

Dan2 said:


> ... that leaves the OP sentence unchanged.





Robocop said:


> Is it desirable or useful to leave the *OP sentence unchanged* [as a matter of principle so to speak] even if it is questionable or wrong?


No, certainly not.  (We're in agreement.)  Why my comment?  Because *in this particular case* there was a strong sense in the thread that the OP had constructed his English sentence poorly, and since a) there was a lot of interest in the structure of the English sentence and b) I don't like to see non-native speakers unnecessarily maligned, I simply pointed out that there was a context in which his sentence was fine (even if it had problems under the most natural assumption about context).  But no, in no way was I saying we must in general consider only the OP sentence as first presented.


Robocop said:


> Should we generally refrain from making *comments that are beside the point* with regard to the OP inquiry?


No, in my opinion, not in general (as long as the OP question has first been clearly answered).  So I think we're in agreement (moderators of course have their limits).  But in this particular case, we had all this discussion, in the *German *forum, about an aspect of an *English *sentence, an aspect that was irrelevant to the OP question, which was, after all, simply whether it was OK to use the two different "als" words in the same sentence.


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## Hutschi

Hi Dan,
it was more. _"... how to express position/role while comparing at the same time?"_
This way it was also about alternative solutions. To give these we have to understand the meaning of the original sentence. So you helped, and in German it is the same (German and English are similar here.) There is special context where it works. But the meaning is not so clear as we might think at the first glance.
It is a kind of (clumsy) coll. style in the original.
The first part: Yes, we can use "als" in several meanings several times. It is the same string but not the same word. (Even with same meaning repeating is often possible as rhetorical figure.)
The first answer clearly said (implicitely with an example) that it is possible, but corrected the style to "normal/default" style. However, it possibly changed the meaning.

Duden has four entries for "als" (including "als dass", and "als ob".)

And we can exchange the wording (this was the second part). I gave some examples.


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## screamerer

Hutschi said:


> Hi Dan,
> it was more.
> ..



It wasn't, actually. I was trying to investigate the possibility of different castings for _als_ occuring in the same sentence.


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## Hutschi

I see. Thank you.
The question _"... how to express position/role while comparing at the same time?" _was not so clear to me. But I think all is clarified now for you.


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## Gernot Back

screamerer said:


> So _*als*_ can function as both, prepositional _*as*_ and _*than*_ in the same statement.


If the two conjunctions immediately follow one another; e.g. if I currently have two jobs and want to state which one is predominating in my schedule, it would be stylistically better to say

_Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden *denn als* Deutschlehrer._​
in order to avoid repetitive _als_:

_Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden als als Deutschlehrer.
_​_canoonet - Adjective: Comparison: Comparative_


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## Hutschi

Gernot Back said:


> ...
> _Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden *denn als* Deutschlehrer._​
> in order to avoid repetitive _als_:
> 
> _Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden als als Deutschlehrer.
> _​_..._



(Nevertheless "als als" is not wrong. These are two different words.)


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## screamerer

Gernot Back said:


> If the two conjunctions immediately follow one another; e.g. if I currently have two jobs and want to state which one is predominating in my schedule, it would be stylistically better to say
> 
> _Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden *denn als* Deutschlehrer._​
> in order to avoid repetitive _als_:
> 
> _Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden als als Deutschlehrer.
> _​_canoonet - Adjective: Comparison: Comparative_


Hi. Thanks,  Gernot.

This use of two consecuitve _*als*_ is new to me: what's the difference between
*Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als du* and
_*Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als als du*_?


Vielen Dank.


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## Hutschi

Hi,


screamerer said:


> Hi. Thanks,  Gernot.
> 
> This use of two consecuitve _*als*_ is new to me: what's the difference between
> *Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als du* and
> _*Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als als du*_?
> 
> 
> Vielen Dank.


The first is the idiomatic version. The second is not idiomatic.
In _als als du_, the second _als_ defines a role. But this requires an appropriate first part.

It simply does not make sense.
It means _As programmer I work longer than as you. I work being you for some time._
May be in a science fiction environment or in a comedy it could work.
_In diesem Film trat ich kürzer als ich auf als als du.
In this movie I played a shorter time as me than as you (as being you) (when we changed our bodies)_.

You see, even in English it seldom makes sense.

And in your sentence congruence is missing like in the joke _at night it is colder than outside. So it is wrong, anyway._


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## Gernot Back

screamerer said:


> *Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als du*
> and
> _*Als Programmierer arbeite ich länger als als du*_?


The second sentence is wrong. Two consecutive _als_'s only exist as what you would translate into English as as _than as_:



Gernot Back said:


> _Als Progammierer arbeite ich wöchentlich mehr Stunden _[_als|denn_]_ als Deutschlehrer._


_As a programmer, I work more hours per week than as a German teacher._​


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## screamerer

Thank you, Hutschi, very informative.


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## JClaudeK

> *als* is also used when you virtually assign a role, profession function or general character to a person or a thing. #13



"du" 
doesn't _assign a role, profession function or general character to a person or a thing._


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## screamerer

Vielen Dank, Gernot.


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## Hutschi

JClaudeK said:


> "du"
> doesn't _assign a role, profession function or general character to a person or a thing._


Exactly. Exception can only be very special context. I saw several movies oft this kind.


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