# Ecclesiastic Pronunciation: gratias, excelsis



## Il_Trovatore

Hello there!

I need to clear up some pronunciation issues that have been bothering be for a while.

Is the letter 't' in the Latin word 'gratias' pronounced as the letter 'z' in the Italian word 'grazie'?

And, also, how is the word 'excelsis' pronounced? I've heard this with two different pronounciations, the one as if it was written 'ecs-celsis' in modern Italian and the other as if it was written 'ec-scelsis' in modern Italian. Which one is the right one?

Thank you for your help!


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## Outsider

Dear Trovatore, there are several ways to pronounce Latin. Which one are you aiming for? The modern ecclesiastical pronunciation, perhaps, judging by your examples?

If so, then the "t" in _gratias_ is indeed pronounced /ts/ like an Italian "z", and the "xc" in _excelsis_ is pronounced /tsh/, like an Italian "c".


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## Il_Trovatore

Thank you very much for your answer, Outsider. Yes, I'm looking for the modern ecclesiastical pronunciation, indeed. So, in 'excelsis', is the 'xc' just 'tsh'? I mean, isn't it 'ks&tsh'?


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## Outsider

Before "e" or "i", yes. I remember hearing _excelsis_ pronounced as "etchelsis" (using English orthography) in the hymn _Gloria in excelsis Deo_. At least, that's what it sounded like to my ears. 

See also this article.


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## Il_Trovatore

Thank you very much for your help, Outsider!


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## Outsider

Hmm, now I'm not sure anymore. This articles says it can be "ekshelsis" or "ekstchelsis"... 

Do a web search, there may be official rules of pronunciation or samples online.


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## Il_Trovatore

Yes, I myself saw that just a minute ago, searching! I guess they are both right and I've heard them both lots of times in recordings, although 'kstch' seems more logical to me, since it is the 'x' as 'ks' and the 'c' as 'tch'.


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## dan9184

ciao 
gratias nel latino ecclesiastico e studiato nei licei italiani si pronuncia "grazias", mentre nel latino "originale"(specialmente quello parlato tra il I sec. a.c. e il I sec d.c.)si sarebbe probabilmente pronunciato "gratias".

per quanto riguarda excelsis, nel latino "moderno" è pronunciato ecs-celsis, mentre nel latino "originale" si sarebbe pronunciato ecs-kelsis.
ciao


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## dan9184

scusa,  excelsis: "eccelsis" in latino scolastico


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## Il_Trovatore

Grazie tante, dan9184!


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