# la mosca bianca



## andersxman

I see on the dictionary that "mosca bianca" can be translated with "black swan". Unfortunately this doesn't help me, as I am unfamilier with this english term as well. An Italian used "mosca bianca" in a conversation, I asked what it meant, and in the context it appears to have meant "a rare thing". Do the above expressions mean "something rare"?

Grazie


----------



## Elisa68

Yes, it does.


----------



## systema encephale

Have you ever seen a black swan (= cigno nero)?


----------



## You little ripper!

My Webster's translates _mosca bianca_ as _rara avis_ which is _a rare or unique person_.
_Black swan_ is translated as a _nonconformist, blacksheep _or_ original_ amongst other things.
It seems a strange expression because it is the symbol of, and a very common bird in Western Australia where I live. I saw some today in fact.


----------



## You little ripper!

systema encephale said:
			
		

> Have you ever seen a blackswan (= cigno nero)?


[URL="http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:RsglYciBuNUJ:www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Nature/Birds/Swimmers/BlackSwan.jpg"]http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:RsglYciBuNUJ:www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Nature/Birds/Swimmers/BlackSwan.jpg

I am so used to seeing black ones that I had forgotten that there are white ones also. I suppose that's what you're used to seeing systema?  [/URL]


----------



## systema encephale

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I saw some today in fact.


 I hope they didn't have the H5N1 bird flu. 


			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> http://images.google.com.au/images?q.../BlackSwan.jpg


 So I guess our "_mosca bianca_" describes better the "to be rare" state. By the way, I was just searching WR dictionary the translation of "rarità" and I've found:
*rarità; mosca bianca* gold dust

Is this expression commonly used?



			
				Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I suppose that's what you're used to seeing systema?


Actually in my life I've seen only white swans. As far as I know, black swans live only in Oceania, right?


----------



## You little ripper!

> By the way, I was just searching WR dictionary the translation of "rarità" and I've found:
> *rarità; mosca bianca* gold dust
> 
> Is this expression commonly used?


_Rare as gold/gold dust_ are expressions that are heard. I would say _rare as gold_ would be used more often.



> Actually in my life I've seen only white swans. As far as I know, black swans live only in Oceania, right?


They are natives to Western Australia, I think. You can find them throughout Australia.


----------



## ElaineG

One that I've heard is "rare as hen's (hens'?) teeth."  I don't know much about hens and am not quite sure what it means.


----------



## You little ripper!

ElaineG said:
			
		

> One that I've heard is "rare as hen's (hens'?) teeth." I don't know much about hens and am not quite sure what it means.


Hens don't have teeth. That's why they are rare.


----------



## disegno

How did a beautiful swan, white or black, become equated with "mosca" or fly?


----------



## You little ripper!

disegno said:
			
		

> How did a beautiful swan, white or black, become equated with "mosca" or fly?


It's the rarity that connects them. There are no white flies and there are supposedly no black swans. This was probably the case in the northern hemisphere where it originated. Of course we now know there are plenty of black ones (on the lake in Hyde Park, a couple of minutes from where I live).


----------



## renetta

hi, in Italian when we speak about something which is extremely rare we can say that it is rare as the mosca bianca. Is it the same in English? Does the expression the white fly exist?


----------



## Necsus

Hi, Renetta.
I've found this:
Mosca bianca = _rarity; rara avis (lat.); rare bird_


----------



## giacinta

I have never heard this expression and I fear that if you said it to an English speaker he would look at you in amazement!

The only equivalent in English I can think of is "as rare as hens' teeth". I imagine if this was translated into Italian and expressed in general conversation it would get the same reception as the white fly!

Sorry can't help,

Giacinta


----------



## Necsus

I've found an other translation:
_A white crow_
Does it help you?


----------



## You little ripper!

Renetta, this has been discussed before here


----------



## afflusso

I would say "blue moon," although you usually only hear it as "it only happens once in a blue moon" 
"Non succedde spesso"


----------



## lsp

afflusso said:
			
		

> I would say "blue moon," although you usually only hear it as "it only happens once in a blue moon"
> "Non succedde spesso"


That's only for something _happening_. It can't describe the _thing itself_ unless you turn _finding it_ into a happening. "The  1918 Buffalo Nickel is as rare as hens' teeth. People find them in circulation once in a blue moon."


----------



## abenr

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> My Webster's translates _mosca bianca_ as _rara avis_ which is _a rare or unique person_.
> _Black swan_ is translated as a _nonconformist, blacksheep _or_ original_ amongst other things.
> It seems a strange expression because it is the symbol of, and a very common bird in Western Australia where I live. I saw some today in fact.


 
Rara avis would indeed be the correct translation of mosca bianca. A good equivalent that I've come across on occasion is a "white blackbird," better apparently than a black swan.


----------



## Katydid

Potreste darmi qualche esempio dell'uso dell'espressione "mosca bianca"? La si dice spesso in italiano?  Si puo' dire, per esempio, "E' una mosca bianca trovare un parcheggio in centro"? Grazie.


----------



## FedericaM

I don't think it is used for situations, I mean, I only heard mosca bianca referring to strange things, animals or persons.
if there is something unusual, strange, rare, but not to find a parking...


----------



## vincenzochiaravalle

Dear friend,

Sometimes, I have found in English texts the far more elegant Latin alternative "rara avis" ("rare bird"). "Mosca bianca" ("white fly") is used, in fact to indicate that something is extremely rare. 

However, I would say it applies to person and things rather than facts.

Maybe you could say "I parcheggi a Roma sono mosche bianche", but even that expression leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...  I don't know just how much it really works...

"Un professore di 24 anni è una mosca bianca"

"Le donne nell'esercito sono mosche bianche"

"Gli avvocati onesti sono mosche bianche"

"Quell'uomo è una mosca bianca quanto a integrità"


I hope I have answered your question.

Take care,

V.


----------



## Katydid

Grazie, Vincenzo. Persone gentili come te sono mosche bianche!


----------



## anghiarese

Un po' scherzoso e : Rare as rocking horse shit.


----------



## prof d'anglais

When pigs fly... The late Sir Terry Wogan often used the English translation "When hens have teeth"...


> *NO French here, thanks*.


----------



## Blackman

I'd say mosca bianca is more for a person, while rara avis sounds reserved for things or concepts. They're not interchangeable.


----------



## rrose17

I've never heard anyone use the expression _rara avis _in conversation, but I have heard _a rare bird_, and this always referring to a person, "He's a rare bird" meaning he's kind of special. _*Rare as hen's teeth*_ as mentioned above is for things or occurrences, not people.


----------



## Odysseus54

Magari anche "a rare animal".

Example :  "A female biker is still a rare animal in Italy".


----------



## Bang the Ham

I've never heard the expression "Black Swan" except to talk about swans that are black. 
I agree with both Odysseus54 "a rare animal", and rrose17 "a rare bird" - but both are referred to people not things.
Might I suggest "one of a kind", since it can be used of both people and objects?


----------



## Blackman

In italiano si usa _bestia rara_ in questo senso.


----------



## Tellure

Blackman said:


> In italiano si usa _bestia rara_ in questo senso.


Non sono sicura, Blackman, almeno in base a questo:
B. _rara_, persona strana, fuori del comune, spec. nella locuz. _guardare come una b_. _rara_, che indica anche insistenza curiosa o indiscreta nel guardare: _l_e _signore_ ... _guardavano le attrici come b_. _rare_, _come donne di un’altra razza_ (Palazzeschi).
béstia in Vocabolario - Treccani

Edit: Ma in alcuni contesti potrebbe adattarsi.

Forse "rare breed" potrebbe fare il paio con "rare animal", che ne pensi, Ody?

*Definition of rare breed*

:  a relatively rare group *Back then, stay-at-home dads were a rare breed. *
*Definition of RARE BREED*

*rare breed*

*NOUN*
"A person or thing with characteristics that are uncommon among their kind; a rarity.

_‘she's one of the rare breed of Hollywood stars who tread the fine line between commercial glory and art house credibility’"
rare breed - definition of rare breed in English | Oxford Dictionaries_

Buona Pasqua a tutti!


----------



## Blackman

Sono pienamente d'accordo a metà, come diceva qualcuno. Meriterebbe quasi un thread in solo italiano.


----------



## Tellure

Blackman said:


> Sono pienamente d'accordo a metà, come diceva qualcuno. Meriterebbe quasi un thread in solo italiano.


 Quale metà?


----------

