# at learning



## mtmjr

I am not sure which form to use.  Here is the English sentence:

_Laura is a master at learning foreign languages._
_Laura está um mestre *a aprender* as línguas estrangeiras._


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## Tagarela

Olá,

"_Laura é mestre em aprender línguas estrangeiras_" sounds better to me. 

But wait for other suggestions. 

Até.:


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## xicamanela89

If you don't know, we don't have one verb but two verbs for the translation of "to be" - "ser" and "estar", depending on the situation. 
I'm not sure about the context, but I think (if Laura's capability of learning languages is permanent, doesn't change) it should be like this:

(A) Laura é _uma_ mestre _a _aprender línguas estrangeiras.

But I think Tagarela's sugestion is correct too, when we take off "_uma_" and "_a_" together.


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## mtmjr

Thanks, I think I understand the ser/estar difference, but I did just learn it yesterday... (I'm working from English/French background.)

I just wanted to confirm that the form of "aprender" was not a gerund. So, in Portuguese, after "em", one uses the infinitive and not the gerund (as would be done in French)? Is that true of all prepositions? (I'm not sure if this question is too broad, but I'll give it a try...)

So, again to confirm, would all of these be grammatically correct possibilities?

_(A) Laura é uma mestre a aprender as línguas estrangeiras._
_(A) Laura é uma mestre em aprender as línguas estrangeiras._
_(A) Laura é mestre a aprender as línguas estrangeiras._
_(A) Laura é mestre em aprender as línguas estrangeiras._


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## xicamanela89

The more correct forms are the first and the fourth ones, but without the "_as_" before "_línguas estrangeiras_":

(A) Laura é uma mestre a aprender línguas estrangeiras.
and
(A) Laura é mestre em aprender línguas estrangeiras.

My implicit knowledge of the language, as a native speaker, tells me that there must be this kind of combination and not a mix of the two

I hope I was useful


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## Carfer

xicamanela89 said:


> The more correct forms are the first and the fourth ones, but without the "_as_" before "_línguas estrangeiras_":


 
I concur, for the very same reason. Furthermore, I would substitute '_mestre'_ for its feminine form '_mestra_', since Laura is a female.


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## white_ray

Hi mtrjr,
I would also say that all possibiliies are correct, but my vote will go to:
- A Laura é uma mestra a aprender línguas estrangeiras.
(Thanks Crafer!!)
In this particular sentence *“a+aprender”* can be seen as some sort of gerund form (approximately ‘when learning’) that we call in Portuguese _“periphrastical expression”_. 
In Brazilian Portuguese we’d use the form “aprendendo”, which is the equivalent to the –ing form in English.
Were you working this phrase in French as well? What did the French one sound like?
Keep at it!! 
wr


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## coolbrowne

That may well be the best choice for European Portuguese





white_ray said:


> ...my vote will go to:
> - A Laura é uma mestra a aprender línguas estrangeiras.


However, in Brazil, we would go with
(A) Laura é mestre em aprender línguas estrangeiras.​Note that this construction doesn't use the feminine "mestra", because "é mestre" is an idiom, at least in Brazil.

Also, although this next observation is often true, it wouldn't apply to this particular case





white_ray said:


> ...*“a+aprender”* can be seen as some sort of gerund form (approximately ‘when learning’)...In Brazilian Portuguese we’d use the form “aprendendo”


In Brazil, if someone were to use the other form (with "uma mestra") it would still be ether "*a* aprender" or "*em* aprender", never "aprendendo". 

Regards


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## mtmjr

Muito obrigado á todos!


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## Outsider

mtmjr said:


> Muito obrigado a todos!


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## mtmjr

...I have no idea how that accent got there...mais _obrigado a Outsider!_


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## white_ray

coolbrowne said:


> Note that this construction doesn't use the feminine "mestra", because "é mestre" is an idiom, at least in Brazil.
> 
> Also, although this next observation is often true, it wouldn't apply to this particular caseIn Brazil, if someone were to use the other form (with "uma mestra") it would still be ether "*a* aprender" or "*em* aprender", never "aprendendo".
> 
> Regards


Thanks for this precision coolbrowne. 
I was thinking of the sentence:
“A Laura é (uma) mestre/a apendendo linguas estrangeiras.”
Would this work in PTB?
wr


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## zelis

Hello!
Another way, more colloquial: _Laura é uma barra a aprender línguas estrangeiras._
«*Barra*» is a noun, m. and f. Indicates someone who excels in something, does it very well.


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## Tagarela

Olá,



white_ray said:


> Thanks for this precision coolbrowne.
> I was thinking of the sentence:
> “A Laura é (uma) mestre/a apendendo linguas estrangeiras.”
> Would this work in PTB?
> wr



No, as Coolbrowne has already said aprendendo cannot be used, either in Portugal's nor in Brazil's Portuguese. 

_Barra_? Essa é nova para mim, é comum o emprego da palavra nesse sentido em Portugal? Talvez em outras regiões do Brasil usem a expressão, mas, nos estados do Rio de Janeiro e em Minas Gerais nunca ouvi assim. 


Até.:


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## zelis

Tagarela said:


> Olá,
> 
> 
> 
> No, as Coolbrowne has already said aprendendo cannot be used, either in Portugal's nor in Brazil's Portuguese.
> 
> _Barra_? Essa é nova para mim, é comum o emprego da palavra nesse sentido em Portugal? Talvez em outras regiões do Brasil usem a expressão, mas, nos estados do Rio de Janeiro e em Minas Gerais nunca ouvi assim.
> 
> 
> Até.:


Laura é um mestre ou uma mestra está bem, para mim. Em rigor, devia ser mestra, mas o grau académico de mestre permite alguma duplicidade, digamos, na falta de uma palavra melhor. Quanto a *barra*, ouvia-se vulgarmente quando eu era novo. Um meu vizinho, taberneiro e não só, dizia, quando estava satisfeito: «Eu sou o barra; cá o barra!». O meu professor da instrução primária disse uma vez que os seus alunos eram uns «barras». Era bom, mesmo bom professor, é verdade. Consultando a _Grande Enc. Port. e Bras.,_ lemos: BARRA,[...] Homem valente, que não verga, que não se curva nem se dobra a nada. Pimpão; ferrabraz: «Que ele com um vergueiro nas unhas era um _barra_, da pele do diabo», Camilo, _A Corja_, cap. 11, p. 248. _P. ext. _Homem exímio na sua arte, capaz de levar uma empresa a cabo: «era um _barra_ a manobrar o furão», Aquilino Ribeiro. _Quando ao Gavião Cai a Pena_, p. 128. (Origem incerta).


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## coolbrowne

Haha, I didn't know this one. Cool! 


zelis said:


> «*Barra*» is a noun, m. and f. Indicates someone who excels in something, does it very well.


I guess one Brazilian counterpart would be "*fera*"

Regards (and thanks )


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## white_ray

coolbrowne said:


> Haha, I didn't know this one. Cool! I guess one Brazilian counterpart would be "*fera*"
> Regards (and thanks )


 
“barra”: _coloquial_ pessoa excelente a nível físico ou intelectual, pessoa que sabe muito sobre determinado assunto
 
I had thought of “fera” ou “craque” (??) in PTB but I was just wandering if it wasn’t too colloquial! 
wr


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## coolbrowne

You are right it's colloquial,  in fact definitely slang (gíria)





white_ray said:


> I had thought of “fera” ou “craque” (??) in PTB but I was just wandering if it wasn’t too colloquial


But, as you clarified, so is "*barra*". I don't know about "_too_ coloquial", though. Hair splitting? 

As for "craque", I'd like to point out that it's an anglicism, from "crack", in the sense of "ace" or "top". However, while the latter is an *adjective* (a _crack_ pilot, a _crack_ detective and, of course, a _crack_ athlete), the former became a *noun* in Portuguese. If I am not mistaken, it was introduced via football/soccer radio transmission (way back when we had no TV). Our trailblazing "locutores" also introduced "quíper" ([goal]keeper), "beque" (back) among others.

Até mais ver...


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