# How many kids <are> <do you have> living with you?



## meijin

Hi, please compare the following two questions I made up, imagining they are being asked by someone who you have just met and chatted for a few minutes.

1. So, how many kids are living with you?
2. So, how many kids do you have living with you?

(People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.)

If someone else's children currently live with you (and there's no reason to hide the fact), you would count them if the question was #1 but wouldn't count them if it was #2. Am I correct?


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## london calling

I would avoid the use of 'kids' in a survey. It's informal and some object to it. 

I prefer no. 2 (How many *children* do you have living with you?) but fail to understand the difference you are trying to make. This could be a reference to your own children and somebody else's, as could your first  sentence.


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## rituparnahoymoy

How many of your kids/children are still living with you?


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## london calling

rituparnahoymoy said:


> How many of your kids/children are still living with you?


The OP said, and I quote:

(People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.)

So:
a) we are not talking about *your* (the person answering the survey) children.
b) *Kids* is not an option is a survey.


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## Myridon

Note that rituparnahoymoy added "of your" before "children." Without that and without talking about "your children" first, it sounds like:
A: I run an orphanage in my home.
B: How many children are living with you?
A: We have about 30 at the moment.


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## meijin

london calling said:


> I would avoid the use of 'kids' in a survey. It's informal and some object to it.


I didn't use the word "survey" this time. 

(Yes, I wouldn't use "kids" if it was a survey.)



london calling said:


> I prefer no. 2 (How many *children* do you have living with you?) but fail to understand the difference you are trying to make. This could be a reference to your own children and somebody else's, as could your first sentence.


Oh, that's good to know. Do you mean that "I have three children living with me" doesn't mean "I have three children, who live with me"?


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## Myridon

meijin said:


> Do you mean that "I have three children living with me" doesn't mean "I have three children, who live with me"?


"I have three children." means the children are yours. It is idiomatic.
"I have three children living with me." without context could mean "Three children (no relation) are living with me."

I have three coal miners.   There is no idiomatic meaning for this sentence. It sounds like you have taken them hostage.
I have three coal miners living with me.  (Three coal miners are living with me. I rent rooms to them.)


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## london calling

meijin said:


> I didn't use the word "survey" this time.
> 
> (Yes, I wouldn't use "kids" if it was a survey.)


Ok, it isn't the survey you are working on. I still wouldn't use 'kids' though unless this is an informal situation.


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## meijin

So, how about the following version? (I intentionally used the informal "kids" again to see if "of yours" would work well with it.)

3. So, how many kids *of yours* are (or do you have) living with you?

If the sentence doesn't sound idiomatic, what expression should the speaker use if he only wanted to know about your children?


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## Myridon

meijin said:


> 3. So, how many kids *of yours* are (or do you have) living with you?


Now it sounds like:  You have a lot of children living with you.  Are any of them yours? 
How many of your kids... Out of your children, how many are living with you?
How many kids of yours (and how many kids of other people) ...


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## london calling

_Of yours_ works for me, assuming you wish to underline the fact that you are asking if the children living with you are in fact your progeny and not somebody else's.


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## Hermione Golightly

"How many of your *children *live with you?"


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> So, how about the following version? (I intentionally used the informal "kids" again to see if "of yours" would work well with it.)
> 
> 3. So, how many kids *of yours* are (or do you have) living with you?
> 
> If the sentence doesn't sound idiomatic, what expression should the speaker use if he only wanted to know about your children?



What do you mean by children here?

That person's own kids(is the person a parent of those children)

or has he rented out his house to a lot of children. Is that a hostel then? Or the children are actually teenagers.


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## london calling

london calling said:


> The OP said, and I quote:
> 
> (People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.)
> 
> So:
> a) we are not talking about *your* (the person answering the survey) children.
> b) *Kids* is not an option is a survey.


See my answer to you above:



london calling said:


> The OP said, and I quote:
> 
> (People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.)
> 
> So:
> a) we are not talking about *your* (the person answering the survey) children.
> b) *Kids* is not an option is a survey.


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## meijin

So "kids of yours" works. Good to know. "Children of yours" sounded all right to me but I wasn't sure about "kids of yours".

But if "How many kids/children of yours..." sounds like you have a lot of children living with you, I think I need another expression.
As for "How many of your kids/children..." and "Out of your children, how many...", they sound to me as if the speaker knows/assumes you have more than one child. 
If this was indeed a survey I could probably ask "How many children do you have and how many do you live with?", but it sound just too long in a friendly conversation.

(Don't BE speakers use "kids" in a friendly chat with someone who they have just met?)


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## london calling

Some BE speakers don't like the word 'kids' (I'm not one of them), as when they (for example my mother) say 'kids' they mean the screaming, undisciplined, unruly spoilt variety and not just someone's offspring.


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## meijin

rituparnahoymoy said:


> or has he rented out his house to a lot of children. Is that a hostel then?


For example, if you live with your brother or sister or some other family member who has children who live in the same home (your home), they are not your children but they live with you.


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## meijin

london calling said:


> Some BE speakers don't like the word 'kids' (I'm not one of them), as when they (for example my mother) say 'kids' they mean the screaming, undisciplined, unruly spoilt variety and not just someone's offspring.


I see. So it sounds rather negative. Good to know.


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> So "kids of yours" works. Good to know. "Children of yours" sounded all right to me but I wasn't sure about "kids of yours".
> 
> But if "How many kids/children of yours..." sounds like you have a lot of children living with you, I think I need another expression.
> As for "How many of your kids/children..." and "Out of your children, how many...", they sound to me as if the speaker knows/assumes you have more than one child.
> If this was indeed a survey I could probably ask "How many children do you have and how many do you live with?", but it sound just too long in a friendly conversation.
> 
> (Don't BE speakers use "kids" in a friendly chat with someone who they have just met?)




I don't think it is a question about English anymore?

A: Do you have (a child/any children).

Stranger: No, I haven't started my family yet.I am unmarried and a virgin.

A: How many of your children still live with you?

Meijin, would you ask the last question to a stranger (without knowing how many children the person has)?


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> For example, if you live with your brother or sister or some other family member who has children who live in the same home (your home), they are not your children but they live with you.



Ok, fine then. Joint family.

How many of your relatives children are still living with you at your house?


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## london calling

meijin said:


> I see. So it sounds rather negative. Good to know.


Only to *some *people, Meijin.


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## MarcB

london calling said:


> Some BE speakers don't like the word 'kids' (I'm not one of them), as when they (for example my mother) say 'kids' they mean the screaming, undisciplined, unruly spoilt variety




I would call them brats. Not only do BE speakers object to using kids, I find that some people reserve the expression for goats, others only use it informally and there are those who use it all the time.


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## london calling

I would call them brats too. 

I quote my mother, who on many occasions has said she doesn't like to go to places full of 'screaming kids'. She would never ask a friend or relative how their 'kids' are (or 'grandkids', God forbid, even I object to that). I might, as it has become such a commonplace thing to say.


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## Myridon

rituparnahoymoy said:


> Stranger: No, I haven't started my family yet.I am unmarried and a virgin.


Unmarried people have children.  People in the US who are not close friends do not talk about their virginity status with each other.  (Especially, when the "still" in your question implies that they look old enough to have adult children.)

If you want to have a natural conversation like a native speaker, you will ask if they have children first.  It's rather pointless to discuss the situation of what you would say in an unnatural conversation.  What do you say to a stranger when they are riding a unicorn?


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## meijin

For what it's worth, B's question below is quite natural in Japanese. Sorry if it's not in English. I think it's because we have a word that means "child/children" and another word that means "your child/children" (in one word), and we ask like "How many *yourchildren* do you...?").

A: I'm really tired from all the house chores. Cooking, laundering, vacuuming, etc. etc.
B: I feel exactly the same. So how many children of yours do you have living with you?
A: I don't have any children.
B: Oh, sorry, I thought you did.


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## rituparnahoymoy

Myridon said:


> Unmarried people have children.  People in the US who are not close friends do not talk about their virginity status with each other.  (Especially, when the "still" in your question implies that they look old enough to have adult children.)
> 
> If you want to have a natural conversation like a native speaker, you will ask if they have children first.  It's rather pointless to discuss the situation of what you would say in an unnatural conversation.  What do you say to a stranger when they are riding a unicorn?



But I didn't ask the strange set of questions? I was just giving an example which in real life is highly unlikely to happen.

I don't think anyone would ask a stranger  "how many children does he have"? without first trying to know whether he is married or not.

I gave a suggestion to Meijin.

How many of your relatives children are still living with you at your house?

Should I have used the possessive clause with relatives's.


How many of your relatives's children are still living with you at your house?


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> For what it's worth, B's question below is quite natural in Japanese. Sorry if it's not in English. I think it's because we have a word that means "child/children" and another word that means "your child/children" (in one word), and we ask like "How many *yourchildren* do you...?").
> 
> A: I'm really tired from all the house chores. Cooking, laundering, vacuuming, etc. etc.
> B: I feel exactly the same. So how many children of yours do you have living with you?
> A: I don't have any children.
> B: Oh, sorry, I thought you did.



So how many children of yours do you have living with you? To my non native ears it's sound non-idiomatic. 

So, how many of your children still live/stay with you?
or

So, how many children of yours still live/stay with you?


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## Hermione Golightly

Why on earth would anybody assume any children of other people were living with somebody?
I've never known a family that had any children other than their own living with them.
'How many children _of yours_ ...? is a ridiculous thing to ask unless you already know that this family happens to have relatives' children or foster children living with them.
It's also an _unnatural_ turn of phrase in this context.
Is all this supposed to be questions asked by a stranger on the street?
You've got to be kidding.


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## Myridon

rituparnahoymoy said:


> But I didn't ask the strange set of questions? I was just giving an example which in real life is highly unlikely to happen.
> 
> I don't think anyone would ask a stranger  "how many children does he have"? without first trying to know whether he is married or not.


No, that would be normal.  Never married, divorced, widowed, ...  All these people have children.   Feel free to ask any adult if they have children.



> I gave a suggestion to Meijin.
> 
> How many of your relatives children are still living with you at your house?
> 
> Should I have used the possessive clause with relatives's.
> 
> 
> How many of your relatives's children are still living with you at your house?


Your relatives children. 
Your relative's children: you (your father's child and mother's child), your mother and father and aunts and uncles (your grandparent's children), your brothers and sisters (your mother's and father's children), your children, your nieces and nephews (your brother's and sister's children, ...
Why would you want to know that?


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## Myridon

Hermione Golightly said:


> I've never known a family that had any children other than their own living with them.


Foreign exchange students.
Foster children.
Keeping a relative's or friend's child while they are travelling or in jail or have moved to another city but the child wants to finish the school year before moving.
...


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## rituparnahoymoy

Hermione Golightly said:


> Why on earth would anybody assume any children of other people were living with somebody?
> I've never known a family that had any children other than their own living with them.
> 'How many children _of yours_ ...? is a ridiculous thing to ask unless you already know that this family happens to have relatives' children or foster children living with them.
> It's also an _unnatural_ turn of phrase in this context.
> Is all this supposed to be questions asked by a stranger on the street?
> You've got to be kidding.



There was a time in India, when people lived in a joint family. There are many advantages of living in a joint family for working parents of little kids.

But we will ask a questions in this way " Are all the children at home"?

The answer would be, No my niece has gone to visit her maternal grandmother. My nephew from my elder brother has been studying outside the state(name of the state) and so on.


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## Myridon

rituparnahoymoy said:


> But we will ask a questions in this way " Are all the children at home"?


Would you ask this of a stranger on the street without asking anything else about his personal situation?

"All the children" would also be confusing in AmE without context.  It sounds like all the children everywhere.


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## rituparnahoymoy

Myridon said:


> Would you ask this of a stranger on the street without asking anything else about his personal situation?
> 
> "All the children" would also be confusing in AmE without context.  It sounds like all the children everywhere.



We will ask this question only to a close friend. And that too when we are seeing each other after a long time.

Anyway,  if one is a chatterbox and finds one like him there is no rule I think.

All the children= Means children's of your relatives living in the same premises but different houses.


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## JulianStuart

meijin said:


> For what it's worth, B's question below is quite natural in Japanese. Sorry if it's not in English. I think it's because we have a word that means "child/children" and another word that means "your child/children" (in one word), and we ask like "How many *yourchildren* do you...?").
> 
> A: I'm really tired from all the house chores. Cooking, laundering, vacuuming, etc. etc.
> B: I feel exactly the same. So how many children of yours do you have living with you?
> A: I don't have any children.
> B: Oh, sorry, I thought you did.


There is a word in Engish thatg covers the meaning : offspring   We would never dream of asking “How many offspring are living with you?” or even “Do you have any offspring?”


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## meijin

I've just had a hot shower and seem to have come up with a much better sentence. How about this?

4. So, how many children/kids do you have who live with you?

Is it still unidiomatic?




Hermione Golightly said:


> I've never known a family that had any children other than their own living with them.


The question is actually not about how many children the _family _has. It's about how many the parent has. A parent who lives with their own children, their sibling, and their sibling's children, for example. But I too felt that "So how many children of yours do you have living with you?" in my last post sound ridiculous after I posted it, while it sounds quite normal in Japanese. It's probably because of the reason I already explained in my last post.


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## JulianStuart

> So, how many kids are living with you?
> 2. So, how many kids do you have living with you?
> 
> (People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.)



All of this thread is because we are having a hard time figuring out how to word a question we would never ask, because you are, for some unknown reason)) asking us to imagine not asking “Do you have any children?”


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## meijin

JulianStuart said:


> There is a word in Engish thatg covers the meaning : offspring


Oh yes, I totally forgot that!
(But, as you say, you wouldn't say "How many offspring..." etc. It's quite different from the Japanese word that means "your dear child/children", which you probably know.) 



JulianStuart said:


> All of this thread is because we are having a hard time figuring out how to word a question we would never ask, because you are, for some unknown reason)) asking us to imagine not asking “Do you have any children?”


Do you mean my new sentence in my last post is still unidiomatic?


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## JulianStuart

I don’t know about idiomatic, but culturally (often these issues come to that) it would be a normal polite interaction to _ask first about the existence of any children _and THEN follow up with your inquiry. Your format makes the assumption (rather rude) that someone actually has children and simultaneously hits them with the inquiry about living arrangements.


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> Oh yes, I totally forgot that!
> (But, as you say, you wouldn't say "How many offspring..." etc. It's quite different from the Japanese word that means "your dear child/children", which you probably know.)
> 
> 
> Do you mean my new sentence in my last post is still unidiomatic?



So, how many children/kids do you have who live with you?

Are two different sentences. How may kids do you have? Does any kid live with you?

_<-----Non-contributory comment removed by moderator (Florentia52)----->_


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## london calling

meijin said:


> Oh yes, I totally forgot that!
> (But, as you say, you wouldn't say "How many offspring..." etc. It's quite different from the Japanese word that means "your dear child/children", which you probably know.)


Which means you didn't read at least one of my posts, where I used the word 'offspring'. Did you miss 'progeny' too? 

Anyway, as others have said, we simply would not ask a total stranger something like this.


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## meijin

_<-----Reply to now-deleted comment removed by moderator (Florentia52)------>_

Judging from Julian's reply, I think my new sentence isn't unidiomatic but is unlikely to be said at least in informal conversation. But it would probably work naturally if it was asked in a survey (with "children", not "kids").



london calling said:


> Which means you didn't read at least one of my posts, where I used the word 'offspring'. Did you miss 'progeny' too?


Yep. Missed both. 
(I was too focused on some other part...)


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## heypresto

I agree with JulianStuart in post #36.

You say in your OP, "People usually ask "Do you have any children?" first, but let's imagine the speaker didn't do so.", but why? The speaker _would_ ask this first, and if the reply is 'yes', then the natural follow-up question (assuming the person didn't say how many) would be "Oh, how many?" And then, possibly go on with 'Do they all live with you?', and if all goes well, they could soon be in a conversation over a coffee about the highs and lows of parenthood etc.

All these other versions you offer us would never happen, or are not idiomatic, or rude.


Multi-crossed.


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## meijin

Google with "How many children do you have who" and you'll see examples written by native English speakers. 
I had no idea combining the two questions would sound rude.


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## rituparnahoymoy

meijin said:


> Actually, what Julian explained above applies to Japanese as well. We would _normally _ask how many children you have first, then ask follow up questions. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone asked the two questions at the same time.
> Judging from Julian's reply, I think my new sentence isn't unidiomatic but is unlikely to be said at least in informal conversation. But it would probably work naturally if it was asked in a survey (with "children", not "kids").
> 
> 
> Yep. Missed both.
> (I was too focused on some other part...)



I had to checked the meaning of progeny in WR dictionary. No layman will use progeny crogeny in a day to day conversation. 
_<-----Non-contributory comments removed by moderator (Florentia52)----->_


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## MarcB

I agree progeny would not be used in this kind of question, but most people would (should) know the definition.


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## meijin

To make the point of this thread clear, I've revised the blue text of my earlier example conversation below.

A: I'm really tired from all the house chores. Cooking, laundering, vacuuming, etc. etc.
B: I feel exactly the same. So how many children do you have living with you?
A: I don't have any children.
B: Oh, sorry, I thought you did.

B may be rude or stupid to ask the question, but it's good to know if the sentence is grammatically correct and idiomatic (as opposed to non-native speaker's English).


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## london calling

rituparnahoymoy said:


> I had to checked the meaning of progeny in WR dictionary. No layman will use progeny crogeny in a day to day conversation. _<...>_


The fact that you (whose native language  is very clearly not English but will improve if you bear with us here )  don't know the word does not mean that most educated English speakers do not. And I did not say it was used in everyday conversation or should be used in this question.


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## heypresto

It's grammatically correct, but it doesn't follow logically from the first line in the conversation.


Cross-posted. This is in reply to #49.


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## london calling

meijin said:


> To make the point of this thread clear, I've revised the blue text of my earlier example conversation below.
> 
> A: I'm really tired from all the house chores. Cooking, laundering, vacuuming, etc. etc.
> B: I feel exactly the same. So how many children do you have living with you?
> A: I don't have any children.
> B: Oh, sorry, I thought you did.
> 
> B may be rude or stupid to ask the question, but it's good to know if the sentence is grammatically correct and idiomatic (as opposed to non-native speaker's English).


Forget the grammar. The whole thing is impolite and unsubtle. Why do you assume that people have children? Why do you question it? For all you know you may be talking to someone who desperately wanted children bur couldn't have any. Do you realise how much that may hurt (I am thinking of a couple of friends of mine, who I think will never get over it)?


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## rituparnahoymoy

london calling said:


> The fact that you (whose native language  is very clearly not English but will improve if you bear with us here )  don't know the word does not mean that most educated English speakers do not. And I did not say it was used in everyday conversation or should be used in this question.



There is a difference between an educated and a commoner. I myself don't understand many words spoken in Assamese. 
_<-----Off-topic comments removed by moderator (Florentia52)----->_
I have never ever heard the word progeny before ._ <...>_


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## london calling

Ritu, please understand that I did not intend to offend you in any way. I simply meant that your native language is not English and I therefore would not expect you to know the word, but I would expect educated native speakers to know it.


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## rituparnahoymoy

london calling said:


> Ritu, please understand that I did not intend to offend you in any way. I simply meant that your native language is not English and I therefore would not expect you to know the word, but I would expect educated native speakers to know it.



I was never offended by your comment at any point. _<-----Off-topic comments removed by moderator (Florentia52)----->_

Again after rethinking, I concede that you are correct. It is because I need to know two different language just to communicate in India. And we need to learn English as well. _<...>_


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## meijin

It seems that the English Only forum doesn't allow learners to learn how to say something rude or inappropriate in the context. I don't think I asked if the sentence would be appropriate or not. Maybe I did but at that time I didn't know it was a rude sentence. Maybe I used "idiomatic" without knowing what it really means. I wanted to know if my sentence was "native speaker's English" whether it would be inappropriate or not in the context. My apologies to all of you who were perplexed and annoyed by my post(s).


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## london calling

meijin said:


> It seems that the English Only forum doesn't allow learners to learn how to say something rude or inappropriate in the context. I don't think I asked if the sentence would be appropriate or not. Maybe I did but at that time I didn't know it was a rude sentence. Maybe I used "idiomatic" without knowing what it really means. I wanted to know if my sentence was "native speaker's English" whether it would be inappropriate or not in the context. My apologies to all of you who were perplexed and annoyed by my post(s).


I'm sure nobody was irritated by your posts. I certainly wasn't. I just think that language and culture are inextricable and therefore people should be aware that certain things in certain contexts should not be said, regardless of whether they are grammatical or not. I am convinced that the Western World has the same problem . I speak from experience, as the firm I work for was bought out by a Japanese company a couple of yuears ago. The cultural differences are .... unfathomable (for both us and our Japanese counterparts) at times.


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## meijin

london calling said:


> Forget the grammar.


Grammar was the _whole _point of my posts in this thread. I knew how to combine the two sentences in Japanese. I wanted to know how to do the same in English. Whether it would sound rude or not wasn't my concern, because, like I said in the original post, people normally just ask if you have any children first, and I would do the same too.


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## london calling

meijin said:


> Grammar was the _whole _point of my posts in this thread. I knew how to combine the two sentences in Japanese. I wanted to know how to do the same in English. Whether it would sound rude or not wasn't my concern, because, like I said in the original post, people normally just ask if you have any children first, and I would do the same too.


See my post above. It explains why I told you to forget the grammar.


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## meijin

london calling said:


> I'm sure nobody was irritated by your posts.


That's good to know. I must say I very often feel as if I'm _scolded _by teachers here because of my poor context/example sentences.

What you said in your last post might be true, but I also think that teachers here sometimes focus _a little too much_ on the context, when the learners just want to know how to say the sentence correctly in English.


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## london calling

Context is everything, Meijin. It can make a massive difference to what is said  and can also avoid people using grammatically correct sentences in an inappropriate way. 

I fear however that we have gone off-topic.


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## meijin

That may be true, but at the same time a simple answer like "That's perfectly correct English, but don't use it unless you want to sound rude" would be quite helpful and make the thread much shorter (because my reply would be simply "Of course I wouldn't. Thanks for the help."


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