# hoed, chapeau, hat



## ThomasK

How do you translate this word (if it refers to a *solid stylish head cover* [is that the correct word ?]) ? Do you always have a specific word ?


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## jazyk

Hat is chapéu in Portuguese. What do you mean with specific word? Different hats can have different names.


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## Hakro

*Hattu* in Finnish - clearly a loan word.


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## ThomasK

Specific word: I meant the general word referring to the solid and stylish head cover. 

Finnish: doesn't it seem strange that you do not have a word "of your own" ?  ;-)


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## Hakro

ThomasK said:


> Specific word: I meant the general word referring to the solid and stylish head cover.
> 
> Finnish: doesn't it seem strange that you do not have a word "of your own" ?  ;-)


It's not so strange; before the Swedish occupation (and for a long time during it) the Finns had no "solid and stylish head covers"; they used only soft headgear called _lakki _(this is a classic one)_, myssy, hilkka_ (for women) etc.


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## dinji

The final vowel of *hattu* actually indicates that the borrowing is older, because it reproduces a Proto-Norse u-vowel elided by the syncope right before the Viking age. Old age is also hinted towards by the fact that the word also occurs in closely related Carelian, Ingrian, Lydian and Votic as well as in Estonian dialect and with the same final vowel in all of them. In some of these languages the word is used ia. for soft head covers of the more traditional type indicated by Hakro, and in some other languages the meaning is even more remote.

So the word seems more than one thousand years old and in that sense "a word of our own" just as much as the word *sauna*, which is a Proto-Germanic borrowing as well. The modern meaning of a 'solid hat' appears to derive from late semantic interference.


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## Wilma_Sweden

Hakro said:


> they used only soft headgear called _lakki _(this is a classic one)_, myssy, hilkka_ (for women) etc.


Hehe, I would have loved to see Prince William with a lakki on his head!  I'm wondering how it's related to Swedish mössa (any type of soft hat, from German Musse/Mütze which is from Latin almutium). Your myssy or hilkka are normally called hätta in Swedish, which is a derivation of hatt (stiff 'stylish' hat).

/Wilma

P.S. The semantics of Finland's historic relationship with Sweden sparked a very interesting discussion, but perhaps it's best moved to the cultural discussions forum...


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## Nizo

In *Esperanto*, _ĉapelo_ is the word for a hat with a brim.  This is probably the best fit for what you’re asking.


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## ThomasK

And now we just wait for the other part(s) of the world !


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## Dr. Quizá

Spanish: Sombrero, from "sombra" (shadow).


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## ThomasK

Thanks, doctor, ;-) but is there no more general word ? Quite nice a word of course, this one, but is there some common denominator word ?


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## amikama

In Hebrew: *כובע *(_kova'_).


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## ThomasK

Is it the most general word, Amikana? Is that the typical hat that Chassidim wear, or is it a more general word ?


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## amikama

ThomasK said:


> Is it the most general word, Amikana? Is that the typical hat that Chassidim wear, or is it a more general word ?


A general word. The hat of the Chassidim has a specific name (שטריימל, from Yiddish).


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## Izhora

dinji said:


> Old age is also hinted towards by the fact that the word also occurs in closely related Carelian, Ingrian, Lydian and Votic as well as in Estonian dialect and with the same final vowel in all of them.



The word for 'hat' in Karelian depends on the region and the dialect. You have *hattu *in the Republic of Karelia and many words based on the stem *šuapk/**šoapk* (derived from the Russian word шапка).

In Votic it's *šlääppi/şlääppi* depending on the way to write it. This word is derived from the Russian word шляпа (_šljapa_). The corresponding Ingrian word is *lääppä.

*In Kildin Saami, it's *кабперь* (_kabper'_). It stands for 'hat' but I think it's probably a borrowing of the Finnish word kypärä (helmet).


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## Orlin

In Bulgarian the "general" word is шапка/sh*a*pka, in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian šešir.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

The generic colloquial term for hat is «καπέλο» (ka'pelo, _neuter nour_) clearly an Italian loanword (cappello). 
The Greek word for it, is «πίλος» ('pilos, _masculine noun_) deriving from the classical masculine noun «πῖλος» ('pīlŏs)-->init. _the wool or hair cap, _later _any hat/cap made of felt_.
The military hat (with visor) is called «πηλήκιο» (pi'licio, _neuter noun_) deriving from the classical masculine noun «πήληξ» ('pēlēks)-->_the helmet_.
The cloth cap is called «τραγιάσκα» (tra'ʝaska, _feminine noun_) a Romanian loanword (trăiască); trăiască is an interjenction and lit. means _up with, hurrah!_ Some philologists suggest that we named the cloth cap this way, because of the association between the throwing in the air the cloth cap and the cheer _trăiască!_ (as they did in Romania).
The homburg (or trilby) hat is called «ρεπούμπλικα» (re'publika, _feminine noun_) an Italian loanword (reppublica). Some philologists suggest that we named the homburg hat this way in the '30s, because of the association between the throwing in the air the hat and the anti-monarchy Italian exclamation _Reppublica!_ (and in Greece existed in the '30s a strong anti-monarchy sentiment as well).


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## bibax

Czech:

*klobouk* from Turkic (Turkish?) kalpak;

Hungarian:

*kalap* (plur. kalapok), of the same origin: kalpak;

(Our ancestors definitely wore soft fur cap, not hats.)

BTW, from my childhood I have the Spanish _sombrero_ associated with bandits as Calvera (Eli Wallach) had one. Chris, Vin and other good guys wore "normal" hats.


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## Rallino

bibax said:


> Czech:
> 
> *klobouk* from Turkic (Turkish?) kalpak;



Yep.

But this isn't used much in modern Turkish. We just go with: _şapka_.


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## Favara

In Catalan it's *barret*, from latin _birrus _(~cloak, same origin as English/French "beret").


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## Rallino

Favara said:


> In Catalan it's *barret*, from latin _birrus _(~cloak, same origin as English/French "beret").



We also use* bere* in Turkish, but it's the wooly hat that you would wear in snowy weathers


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## apmoy70

Rallino said:


> We also use* bere* in Turkish, but it's the wooly hat that you would wear in snowy weathers


We too use the name «μπερές» (be'res, _masculine noun_) but with it we describe the soft round cap particularly associated with military units


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## ThomasK

It is just amazing again - and intriguing at the same time - how complex it seems to just translate a word... It becomes like a bit of cultural history.


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## rusita preciosa

I think Ishora has touched upon Russian, but to summarize,
*шапка* /shapka/ - a "generic" word for a hat; cognate of Latin cappa
*шляпа */shlyapa/ - any hat with a brim
*колпак* /kolpak/ - a hat with a pointy floppy top (like the "night caps" people were wearing to sleep, or a harlequin hat). Obviously comes from Turkic languages (as discussed above in the tread)

There are more recent words for specific types of headwear:
*берет* /beret/ - beret
*бейсболка* / beisbolka/ - baseball hat
etc...


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## Outsider

In Portuguese there are sevaral words for 'hat'. Some of them designate different kinds of hats:

chapéu (the basic word)
barrete/barreta
boné
gorro


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## ThomasK

Which hat is the hardest?


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## Outsider

A _chapéu_, or a _cartola_.


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## ThomasK

I am going to start a new thread elsewhere based on "to hat" (if I translate Dutch "hoeden" literally), or "to heed". But in the meantime, ten years later, I wonder: I think English uses "hat" for non-solid ;-) head covers ('confirmed by Google when googling for "hat"), but I'll develop that into a new thread.


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## Olaszinhok

*Italian:

copricapo* - headgear / hat
*cappello* - hat
*berretto/a* - cap 
*cappellino *- cap - little hat
*basco* - beret
*coppola* - flat cap
*bombetta* - bowler


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## ThomasK

Thanks a lot. See also the other new thread. I suppose the main word will be _capo_, although I hesitate: _copri-capo_ is a cover-head , literally, I guess. But strictly speaking *capo *would be head, I guess, where  I see that root turn up all in variations in your list... Or?


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## Olaszinhok

ThomasK said:


> But strictly speaking capo would be head, I guess... Or?


Yes, it is.  *Capo* is a synonym of *testa* = head


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## ThomasK

That is quite different then as the basis of a hat concept. With us the main word/ idea seems to be a (head) cover, which explains, I suppose, why we can turn it into a verb...  If you can, please answer the latter question at the "to hat" thread...


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## Hakro

Wilma_Sweden said:


> Hehe, I would have loved to see Prince William with a lakki on his head!


Here you see such a picture; also the military cap is always called _lakki_, never _hattu_.
(Sorry for the delayed answer.)


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## ThomasK

But we call that a *kepi*, maybe a *pet*, but not a _*hoed*_;..


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