# Swear words that became usual



## Radioh

Hi 
First of all, I'm really not sure if I can ask this kind of question. But I'm very curious about other languages, so decided to start this thread.
In your languages, is there a swear word that became usual ? By usual, I mean the word that you use all the time and when you say it, people wouldn't stare at you and seriously think that you're uneducated (though it still sound rude). The word is just a common expression. For example, in my language, people usually say "Đụ!"(Fuck!) when they drop something, especially something breakable, or when they accidentally hurt themselves. And it's completely normal for parents to say "Đụ" in front of their children. It won't have any bad influence on the children, I believe (I'm one of those children).
Look forward to your comments. Thanks.


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## Wordsmyth

A couple of general comments, Radioh. 

I'd say the trend is more the other way round. Words that were perfectly normal and acceptable in past eras (sometimes centuries ago) have gradually become socially unacceptable, perhaps because of their being used in figurative (perhaps insulting) ways rather than with their literal meanings. 

Also, it's hard to generalise about what is 'acceptable' within a given language, especially one as widely used as, say, English. One person's mild cussword will be another's obscenity or blasphemy. 

Ws


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## apmoy70

Well, Greek does have a couple of words/expressions that started as swear words and nowadays are used as exclamations/interjenctions mostly:


(1) *«Μαλάκας»* [ma'lakas] (masc.) --> lit.  _wanker, self-abuser, jerk-off_, metaph. (among friends), _dude, pal, mate_ < Byz. fem. noun *«μαλάκᾱ» malákā* --> _masturbation_ < Classical adj. *«μαλ(θ)ακός» măl(tʰ)ākós* (masc.) --> _soft, morally weak_, in Plutarch, _catamite_ (with obscure etymology).


(2) *«Γαμώτο»* [ɣa'moto] (interj.) --> _f*ck it_ < Byz. expression  *«γαμῶ τόν/τήν/τὸ» gamô ton* --> _to f*uck him_, *gamô tēn* --> _to f*ck her_, *gamô to* --> _to f*ck it_. 
The etymology of the modern Greek v. *«γαμώ»* [ɣa'mo]  --> _to f*ck_: Classical v. *«γαμέω/γαμῶ» găméō* (uncontracted)/*gāmô* (contracted) --> _to marry_ (PIE *ǵ(e)m-, _to marry_ with no cognates outside of Greek). The use of *«γαμέω/γαμῶ»* as a profanity is ancient: «(Ἀγαμέμνων) γαμεῖ βιαίως» "(Agamemnon) forces himself" (Euripides' _The Trojan Women _44).
As with Vietnamese, in Greek we use *«γαμώτο»* [ɣa'moto] spontaneously and it's often used by parents as an interjenction in front of their children. It's considered rude, but not vulgar.


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## OneStroke

The Cantonese word 仆街 (puk1 gaai1, 'may you drop dead in the streets') seems to have become acceptable in non-Cantonese areas like Taiwan, although it remains taboo in Cantonese-speaking regions.

Swear words becoming non-swear among youth is a phenomenon that frequently appears in Putonghua, however. There's a word meaning d*ck in Putonghua which has become a substitute for 'cool' among youth. (It means 'f*ck' and remains taboo in Cantonese.) (I won't write out the word, but it's very likely to be a cognate of the word the OP mentioned.)

 It also seems to me that a Putonghua expletive referring to a female's private parts has become better accepted among Chinese youth, in several incarnations (e.g. niu-bi, sha-bi).


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## Gavril

Wordsmyth said:


> Also, it's hard to generalise about what is 'acceptable' within a given language, especially one as widely used as, say, English. One person's mild cussword will be another's obscenity or blasphemy.



For example, it may look as though the f-word has become a normal, acceptable word if you listen to certain English-speakers' conversations. But in fact it is still a swear word, and even people who routinely use it will agree that it is.


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## Radioh

Wordsmyth said:


> A couple of general comments, Radioh.
> 
> I'd say the trend is more the other way round. Words that were perfectly normal and acceptable in past eras (sometimes centuries ago) have gradually become socially unacceptable, perhaps because of their being used in figurative (perhaps insulting) ways rather than with their literal meanings.
> 
> Also, it's hard to generalise about what is 'acceptable' within a given language, especially one as widely used as, say, English. One person's mild cussword will be another's obscenity or blasphemy.
> 
> Ws



Thanks Ws. That's a big surprise. Could you give some examples ? Words that were acceptable in the past but now are not ?


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## ancalimon

In Turkish there are such words. Some that were normal in the past became swear words or rude words.

Here are two examples that comes to my mind:

"yarak" was "weapon" in the past. Today it means "dick". (a very vulgar word for penis)
"sikiş" was "sex" in the past. Today it is an extremely rude way of saying it and people use the very similar sounding "sex" instead.


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## Geo.

In England when I was a school-boy, (this was just after W.W. II), the word ‘*bloody*’ was tantamount to saying the ‘f-word’.  We would have been taken to be slippered or caned before the Head Master for it.  However, in time, it has become so banal, I don't think anyone in the UK would raise an eyebrow at it being said; it's quite common — if not very common — and used to express even just a mild frustration or exasperation.  E.g. _‘Bloody hell, the newsagent's was out of the Times; all that was left is the Daily-bloody-Mail’._ 

Another word I found in emigrating, we could have never said ‘*bugger*’, and yet now, here in North America, saying to an impish child _‘You little bugger, come on now, be good.’_ is about like saying _‘You little devil’ etc._ ... no-one becomes deeply offended by it, much less scandalised.  

However, I would go so far as to say as a man of my age, I haven't adopted these practices, however, if I were raised in more recent times, I'm certain I'd say them both, like all the rest, as I would neither have the knowledge nor the feeling of both these words being something of a taboo.  (I am certain both Australians and Canadians must find this terribly prudish, but then I was neither raised Australian nor Canadian, much less in modern times). 

(As a parenthetical note:  ‘ass’ so spelt in Canada, to mean ones ‘back-side’ or ‘bum’, is thought to be more crude than use of the word ‘*arse*’ for the same ... it's almost a euphemism here.  However, in the UK with ‘ass’ meaning a donkey alone, whilst ‘arse’ — even though the words are pronounced identically in England — is considered a coarse word to refer to the buttocks.  At the same time, the verbal phrase ‘*arsed*’ — always used in the negative — as in _‘I'm too tired, I can't be arsed (to do it)’_ to mean _‘I can't be bothered to do it’_, as well as ‘*arsey*’ to mean ‘spiteful and petty’, e.g. _‘You did fine, she was only being arsey to criticise you, because she's jealous’_, the both of these terms couldn't be considered overly offensive. Though there _are_ more neutral ways of expressing them, especially amongst the older generation who may still avoid their use).


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## vince

OneStroke said:


> Swear words becoming non-swear among youth is a phenomenon that frequently appears in Putonghua, however. There's a word meaning d*ck in Putonghua which has become a substitute for 'cool' among youth. (It means 'f*ck' and remains taboo in Cantonese.) (I won't write out the word, but it's very likely to be a cognate of the word the OP mentioned.)



Are you talking about "diu"?



Radioh said:


> Thanks Ws. That's a big surprise. Could you give some examples ? Words that were acceptable in the past but now are not ?



Words like idiot, moron, imbecile, and cretin had scientific definitions corresponding to levels of mental retardation. But now they're used by everyone to refer to someone stupid.

When I was a kid in the 90's, the word "retard" was used to refer to someone stupid.

You've also got words like "negro" for a Black American and "moslem" for Muslim that are now considered offensive, even though they used to be the standard terms.



Geo. said:


> (As a parenthetical note:  ‘ass’ so spelt in Canada, to mean ones ‘back-side’ or ‘bum’, is thought to be more crude than use of the word ‘*arse*’ for the same ... it's almost a euphemism here.  However, in the UK with ‘ass’ meaning a donkey alone, whilst ‘arse’ — even though the words are pronounced identically in England — is considered a coarse word to refer to the buttocks.  At the same time, the verbal phrase ‘*arsed*’ — always used in the negative — as in _‘I'm too tired, I can't be arsed (to do it)’_ to mean _‘I can't be bothered to do it’_, as well as ‘*arsey*’ to mean ‘spiteful and petty’, e.g. _‘You did fine, she was only being arsey to criticise you, because she's jealous’_, the both of these terms couldn't be considered overly offensive. Though there _are_ more neutral ways of expressing them, especially amongst the older generation who may still avoid their use).



Arse isn't used in Canada except for evading censorship of "ass".


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## Radioh

Geo. said:


> In England when I was a school-boy, (this was just after W.W. II), the word ‘*bloody*’ was tantamount to saying the ‘f-word’.  We would have been taken to be slippered or caned before the Head Master for it.  However, in time, it has become so banal, I don't think anyone in the UK would raise an eyebrow at it being said; it's quite common — if not very common — and used to express even just a mild frustration or exasperation.  E.g. _‘Bloody hell, the newsagent's was out of the Times; all that was left is the Daily-bloody-Mail’._
> 
> Another word I found in emigrating, we could have never said ‘*bugger*’, and yet now, here in North America, saying to an impish child _‘You little bugger, come on now, be good.’_ is about like saying _‘You little devil’ etc._ ... no-one becomes deeply offended by it, much less scandalised.
> 
> However, I would go so far as to say as a man of my age, I haven't adopted these practices, however, if I were raised in more recent times, I'm certain I'd say them both, like all the rest, as I would neither have the knowledge nor the feeling of both these words being something of a taboo.  (I am certain both Australians and Canadians must find this terribly prudish, but then I was neither raised Australian nor Canadian, much less in modern times).
> 
> (As a parenthetical note:  ‘ass’ so spelt in Canada, to mean ones ‘back-side’ or ‘bum’, is thought to be more crude than use of the word ‘*arse*’ for the same ... it's almost a euphemism here.  However, in the UK with ‘ass’ meaning a donkey alone, whilst ‘arse’ — even though the words are pronounced identically in England — is considered a coarse word to refer to the buttocks.  At the same time, the verbal phrase ‘*arsed*’ — always used in the negative — as in _‘I'm too tired, I can't be arsed (to do it)’_ to mean _‘I can't be bothered to do it’_, as well as ‘*arsey*’ to mean ‘spiteful and petty’, e.g. _‘You did fine, she was only being arsey to criticise you, because she's jealous’_, the both of these terms couldn't be considered overly offensive. Though there _are_ more neutral ways of expressing them, especially amongst the older generation who may still avoid their use).



Wow, such a great post, Mr Geo. Thanks a lot!


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## Geo.

vince said:


> Arse _isn't used_ in Canada _except for evading censorship _of "ass".



With no offense intended, that simply is not the case.                                                                                        

Even though I've lived in Canada in excess of five decades, I took the time to speak with two younger Ontarians, circa 25 to 30 years old, who both hold a BA in English and a BEd as they teach English literature in the local public school board, as well as an older Canadian Professor Emeritus of English at the University of Toronto.  All three are Canadian by both birth and education, as well as having English as their mother-tongue, and all agreed on the use of ‘arse’ in Canadian English ... if it should be a lesser feature in the USA, such is not the case in Canada.  

Yet, rather than take hearsay, or my word as someone who is, after all, of British birth and education, there is Wiki ‘Canadian English’, as well as the Canadian OED College Edition, and Wiki even gives the word its own page ‘Arse’.  
Viz:Wiki ‘Canadian English’: arse, commonly used in Atlantic Canada and among older people in Ontario and to the west.    

Wiki ‘Arse’: usually replaced by "ass" by US and by some Canadian English speakers, although "arse" is still more commonly used 
in Atlantic Canada and among older people in Ontario and further west, as in British Columbia.​
 However, when it comes to the use of the compound word ‘arsehole’, Wiki would seem to suggest it is used almost exclusively over the American "asshole": 
"arsehole", a similar British/Irish/Scottish/*Canadian*/Australian/New Zealand _term for the anus, equivalent to "*asshole*" in *American English*.
_​ 
I'll admit that ‘ass’ with its two American meanings of both ‘donkey’ and ‘buttocks’ is common enough, however in the Maritimes ‘arse’ is the dominant form, and it never stands for ‘donkey’, but only ‘buttocks’.  Moreover, there is that unique aspect of the word when used in Canada, vs the UK, where the both are pronounced to rhyme with ‘mass’ in the UK, and yet whilst there is no distinction in pronunciation, that of spelling is strictly adhered to, and ‘ass’ means a ‘donkey’ alone, whilst ‘arse’ means the ‘buttocks’.
However, in Canada, ‘ass’ (pronounced to rhyme with ‘mass’) can be used as in American, for both a ‘donkey’ and the ‘buttocks’, however the distinctly different pronunciation of ‘arse’ (in Canada — as in North America at large — to rhyme with ‘parse’) is noteworthy in that the very sound does not make it interchangeable with ‘ass’ in both of its American meanings. 

It's just a part of Canadiana like ‘zed’ being the name for the last letter of the alphabet, a ‘chesterfield’ for a sofa, ‘running-shoes’ for sneakers or tortière _(sic)_ at a Christmas réveillon ... in sum, ‘arse’ _is_ used in Canada — as cited — and this has nothing to do with evading censorship of the word ‘ass’.​


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## OneStroke

Geo. said:


> (As a parenthetical note: ‘ass’ so spelt in Canada, to mean ones ‘back-side’ or ‘bum’, is thought to be more crude than use of the word ‘*arse*’ for the same ... it's almost a euphemism here. However, in the UK with ‘ass’ meaning a donkey alone, whilst ‘arse’ — even though the words are pronounced identically in England — is considered a coarse word to refer to the buttocks. At the same time, the verbal phrase ‘*arsed*’ — always used in the negative — as in _‘I'm too tired, I can't be arsed (to do it)’_ to mean _‘I can't be bothered to do it’_, as well as ‘*arsey*’ to mean ‘spiteful and petty’, e.g. _‘You did fine, she was only being arsey to criticise you, because she's jealous’_, the both of these terms couldn't be considered overly offensive. Though there _are_ more neutral ways of expressing them, especially amongst the older generation who may still avoid their use).



'Arse' started out as a normal word. Etymonline says:



> "buttocks," Old English _ærs_ "tail, rump," from Proto-Germanic _*arsoz_ (cognates: Old Saxon, Old High German, Old Norse _ars_, Middle Dutch _ærs_, German _Arsch_ "buttock"), from PIE root _*ors-_ "buttock, backside" (cognates: Greek _orros_ "tail, rump, base of the spine," Hittite _arrash_, Armenian _or_ "buttock," Old Irish _err_ "tail"). Middle English had _arse-winning_ "money obtained by prostitution" (late 14c.).



Wiktionary cites this example:



> *1485*, Thomas Malory, _Le Morte Darthur_, Book XVIII:at the laste he sanke downe uppon hys *arse*, and so sowned downe pale and dedly.



Incidentally, Mozart apparently used it: Lech mich im Arsch (I don't speak German, so I'm not sure about the nature of Arsch here). It is a song about licking buttocks, and is very graphic. Definitely not for the weak minded...



vince said:


> Are you talking about "diu"?


Yep.


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## Geo.

OneStroke said:


> 'Arse' started out as a normal word. Etymonline says:
> 
> Wiktionary cites this example:
> 
> 
> 
> "buttocks," Old English ærs "tail, rump," from Proto-Germanic *arsoz (cognates: Old Saxon, Old High German, Old Norse ars, Middle Dutch ærs, German Arsch "buttock"), from PIE root *ors- "buttock, backside" (cognates: Greek orros "tail, rump, base of the spine," Hittite arrash, Armenian or "buttock," Old Irish err "tail"). Middle English had arse-winning "money obtained by prostitution" (late 14c.).
Click to expand...


Yes, and in as much as ‘arse’ is the standard spelling in the UK (in the sense of buttocks) it continues to be classified as one of those '_four-letter_ Anglo-Saxon words' i.e. swearing.  


> Wiktionary cites this example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1485*, Thomas Malory, _Le Morte Darthur_, Book XVIII:at the laste he sanke downe uppon hys *arse*, and so sowned downe pale and dedly.
Click to expand...


This follows well with your citation below, as ‘arse’ _is_ the German cognate of „Arsch“. (Versus the German for ‘ass’ in the sense of ‘donkey’ is  „Esel“ ... e.g. „Dummer Esel!“ is _roughly_ ‘You stupid (jack)ass!’). 


> Incidentally, Mozart apparently used it: Lech mich im Arsch (I don't speak German, so I'm not sure about the nature of Arsch here). It is a song about licking buttocks, and is very graphic. Definitely not for the weak minded...


The German „Arsch“ means the same in English, hence its further extension „Arsch“ (arse) + „Loch“ (hole) = „Arschloch“ to mean both figuratively, and literally ‘arsehole’ ... American "asshole". 
 (And just as in English it could be used as a filthy epithet „Du Arschloch!“ to mean ‘You arsehole!’, i.e. it carries both the same sense, as well as the same usage).


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## Wordsmyth

Radioh said:


> Thanks Ws. That's a big surprise. Could you give some examples ? Words that were acceptable in the past but now are not ?


 Sorry not to have replied before, Radioh. I've been without internet for a week, since some bright spark destroyed the cable in our street with a mechanical digger. But others have given you examples of the sort of words I had in mind. 

OneStroke cited the Middle English usage of _arse_. The same is true of other 'four-letter' words. As is shown by these extracts from entries in the Online Etymology Dictionary, such words were in 'legitimate' use before being later considered obscene:


> *fuck (v.)*
> _[...]_
> earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535 -- "Bischops ... may fuck thair fill and be vnmaryit" [Sir David Lyndesay, _"Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"_],
> _[...]_
> The earliest examples of the word otherwise are from Scottish, which suggests a Scandinavian origin, perhaps from a word akin to Norwegian dialectal _fukka_ "copulate," or Swedish dialectal _focka_ "copulate, strike, push," and _fock_ "penis."
> _[...]_
> _Fuck_ was outlawed in print in England (by the Obscene Publications Act, 1857) and the U.S. (by the Comstock Act, 1873).
> _[...]_
> The legal barriers broke down in the 20th century, with the "Ulysses" decision (U.S., 1933) and "Lady Chatterley's Lover" (U.S., 1959; U.K., 1960).
> _[...]_





> *cunt (n.)* "female intercrural foramen,"
> _[...]_
> Used in medical writing c.1400, ...
> _[...]_
> ... considered obscene since 17c.
> _[...]_


Vince mentioned some other words that used to be in normal use, and which, although they haven't become swearwords as such, are now considered offensive — essentially because of their repeated use as insults.


Geo. said:


> _[...] _However, in the UK with ‘ass’ meaning a donkey alone, whilst ‘arse’ — even though the words are pronounced identically in England — is considered a coarse word to refer to the buttocks. _[...]_


Well, they may be pronounced identically by some people in England, but certainly not by all (probably not even by a majority). Oxforddictionaries.com (which uses RP) shows _ass_ being pronounced /as/ (as in _hat_), and _arse_ as /ɑːs/ (as in _pass_), which is how I hear most non-rhotic speakers pronounce those two words. Add to that the rhotic speakers of certain regions of England who pronounce _arse_ as /ɑːrs/, and that makes a lot of people in England who pronounce them differently.

Ws


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## Radioh

Wordsmyth said:


> ...Vince mentioned some other words that used to be in normal use, and which, although they haven't become swearwords as such, are now considered offensive — essentially because of their repeated use as insults.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ws. Talking about the words that Vince mentioned, "negro" and "moslem". They used to be standard terms but are conisdered offensive now. So what do you use instead ? Black man, muslim man ? By the way, I understand why negro is offensive but why moslem ?


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## Wordsmyth

The acceptable terms that replace 'negro' vary around the English-speaking world. In the UK, 'black' seems pretty standard. In the US, 'black' and 'African American' are often used. In South Africa, 'black' is still used, but I know some South Africans who dislike it because it was used in the days of apartheid, so they prefer names relating to 'tribal' origins.

I had no idea that 'moslem' was an offensive word until Vince mentioned it. I guess that must be a purely AmE thing. As far as I'm concerned, 'moslem' and 'muslim' are alternative English spellings of the same Arabic word, since there isn't a direct correspondence between Arabic and English vowel sets. Depending on the accent of a particular English-speaker, the two spellings might be pronounced very similarly. Maybe Vince can cast more light on that.


Radioh said:


> _[...]_ By the way, I understand why negro is offensive _[...]_


 I'd be interested to know what your understanding is, Radioh. To me it's a fashion that defies logic. In the early/mid-20th century, 'coloured' was considered polite; then 'negro' took its place ('black' being thought offensive at that time); and that in turn was replaced by 'black' around the 1970s. And that's just in English, of course. In Spanish the word for the colour 'black'* is* _'negro'_ (from the Latin word for 'black': _niger_), so the _'black<>negro'_ option doesn't exist!

I feel a Shakespeare quote coming on: _"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." _

Ws


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## mataripis

It depends on what you always listen or heard. When someone is religious the common word is mahabagin. But if always watching porn their words are puta, uten, boray, parakayos, ay iyot. But if aware of black magic, iwas usog, layo sa uya, buyag etc.


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## Radioh

Thanks, Ws. Well, when I said "I understand" I simply meant I know that negro is one of the n-words that are now considered offensive and people would avoid them. I'm not a native, so I have no experience in the change of fashion that you mentioned.
Ps: what does Shakespeare quote mean, Ws ?
Pps: Thank you everyone!


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## sound shift

Geo. said:


> In England when I was a school-boy, (this was just after W.W. II), the word ‘*bloody*’ was tantamount to saying the ‘f-word’.  We would have been taken to be slippered or caned before the Head Master for it.  However, in time, it has become so banal, I don't think anyone in the UK would raise an eyebrow at it being said; it's quite common — if not very common — and used to express even just a mild frustration or exasperation.  E.g. _‘Bloody hell, the newsagent's was out of the Times; all that was left is the Daily-bloody-Mail’._


Agreed - and I notice that "Bloody Brilliant" was the headline on the front page of the sports section of a British newspaper the other day.


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## Wordsmyth

Radioh said:


> Thanks, Ws. Well, when I said "I understand" I simply meant I know that negro is one of the n-words that are now considered offensive and people would avoid them._ [...] _


 OK. That's certainly true, at least in the vast majority of contexts. Though I have met elderly black people from the southern US who still refer to themselves and others as negroes, and who don't find it offensive. There are also some organisations that still have it in their names, such as the United Negro College Fund, and some fixed expressions such as 'negro spirituals' that are still used. But in most cases it's better avoided.


Radioh said:


> Ps: what does Shakespeare quote mean, Ws ?_ [...] _


 A quotation from the works of William Shakespeare (1564-1616), eminent English playwright and poet. Many of his better-known lines (or parts of them) have become everyday sayings in English.The one I quoted is from his play _Romeo and Juliet_.


sound shift said:


> Agreed - and I notice that "Bloody Brilliant" was the headline on the front page of the sports section of a British newspaper the other day.


 "Bloody" is another interesting one: a perfectly respectable word (even in the non-literal sense) until, according to several sources, the mid-18th century. It then became vulgar, even strongly disapproved, until the latter half of the 20th century. Even then the BBC censored it for quite a while, and substitutions such as 'blooming' or, later, 'bleeding' were quite common. 

In 1959, Lonnie Donegan recorded a version of the Jimmy Driftwood song, _The Battle of New Orleans_, in which the line _"And we caught the bloody British at the town of New Orleans"_ appears. Donegan was required, for the British market, to change it to_ "the bloomin' British"_. No-one was bothered that the song ridiculed British troops, or crowed over their defeat (we Brits are known for laughing at ourselves ), but ... oh my goodness, we couldn't have that naughty word 'bloody' in there! 

Ws


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## Radioh

Ah, I know Shakespeare. What I wanted to know is the meaning of the phrase that you quoted, Ws. (It's really hard to understand his langangue.)


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## Wordsmyth

Ah, OK ... In the play, Juliet says that to Romeo to explain that she cares about the person that he is, not the fact that his family name is Montague. The Montagues and her family (the Capulets) are enemies. Her analogy is that a rose would be the same thing even if it had a different name, so the name is of no importance. 

I was relating that to the names used for ethnic groups: the 'acceptable' name changes over time, but people are what they are, regardless of the name, and should be judged on their own merits.

Ws


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## Radioh

Okay, I see. Thanks, Ws


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