# Hindi/Urdu and Punjabi: Start a course



## linguist786

I have been given the small challenge to translate this short notice into Urdu and would like some help! 

I tried to do as best as I can!

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Start a course to improve your English.
This will help you:
- Speak and listen to doctors and teachers
- Read and write to help your children with their homework
The course runs every Thursday 9.30-11.30 at Sunshine Children's Centre
Creche available upon request
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اپنى انگريزي كو سدھارنے كيلئے ايك كورس كو شروع كيجئے​يه آپ كيلئے ان كامو ں ميں مفيد هوگا:-​-اساتذه اور  ڈاكٹروں  كو سننا اور ان كےساتھ گفتگو كرنا​-اپنے بچے كو ان كے هوم ورك كيساتھ مدد كرنا​اس كورس هر جمعرات كو 9.30 سے لے كر 11.30 تك "سنشاين چلڈرن سينٹر" ميں هوگا​درخواست كى اور"كريش"  دستياب هے​​​


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## BP.

You've done a good job at the translation, in view of the target audience. One or two words do perturb me:

_sudhaarnaa _we understand _usually _as making something go from worse to bad, _not_ good to better. Not so appropriate when you need to attract people. I'd use the pedestrian _behtar banaanaa_-بہتر بنانا- instead. You could use a better phrase _iSlaaH karnaa_-اصلاح کرنا- but still at the same risk as _sudhaarnaa_.

Other mistakes are corrected in place. The added word is underlined:


اپنى انگريزي بہتر بنانے كو سدھارنے كيلئے ايك كورس كو شروع كيجئے
يه آپ كيلئے  مندرجہ ذیل ان كامو ں ميں مفيد هوگا:
-اساتذه اور ڈاكٹروں  كو سننا اور ان كےساتھ گفتگو كرنا
  بچٌوں -اپنے بچے كو ان كے هوم ورك كيساتھ مدد كرنا
  یہ اس كورس هر جمعرات كو 9.30 سے لے كر 11.30 تك "سن شاين چلڈرن سينٹر" ميں منعقد هوگا
درخواست  پركى اور"كريش"  دستياب هے​


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## linguist786

"yahaa course" sounds funny to me?
The other improvements I like!

Do you think "creche" can be left like that? (in inverted commas)

Just out of interest, if "mundarjaa zayl" is "below", what is "above"?


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## linguist786

For the last bit, how about:
درخواست پربچوں کو ركھنے كى جگہ دستياب هے​


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## BP.

linguist786 said:


> "yahaa course" sounds funny to me?


I typed yeh and it decided to attach itself witht he following word. Corrected!



> Just out of interest, if "mundarjaa zayl" is "below", what is "above"?


_baalaa _in lieu of _dhiil_.



> For the last bit, how about:
> درخواست پربچوں کو ركھنے كى جگہ دستياب هے



I think crèche could be left in roman letters since it is a word that has traversed languages. Your translation could work too, so might جاے طفل اندوزی or the simpler بچٌہ خانہ.


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## linguist786

Excellent, thanks once again.


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## marrish

Are there other possibilities to call a child-care; day care for children; a crèche in Urdu? How about _jaa-e-nigahdaasht_?


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Are there other possibilities to call a child-care; day care for children; a crèche in Urdu? How about _jaa-e-nigahdaasht_?


روز مرہ / یومی دارالاطفال , دار الحضانت (اطفال) , دارالامان ...? "jaa-e-nigahdaasht" could probably work as well (in addition to the suggestions provided in the previous posts)...perhaps _-e- اطفال / کم سن افراد _could be added for more detail.


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## langnerd

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _sudhaarnaa _we understand _usually _as making something go from worse to bad, _not_ good to better.



Hi, BP, I'm new the forum. I wanted to ask if others had the same understanding of 

sudhaarnaa
 سدھارنا 
सुधारना ? 

I always thought this word meant "to improve"? It's the word I'd naturally use for "good to better."


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## Qureshpor

langnerd said:


> Hi, BP, I'm new the forum. I wanted to ask if others had the same understanding of sudhaarnaa سدھارنا सुधारना ? I always thought this word meant "to improve"? It's the word I'd naturally use for "good to better."


Welcome to the forum, langnerd.

Obviously BP SaaHib will no doubt clarify his position but I think I follow both your and his logic. One normally (perhaps) uses "sudhaarnaa" to improve something that is in the state of being "bigRii hu'ii". So if one was using "sudhaarnaa" to improve one's English, the impression in my mind would be that the person's English is in a bit of a mess at the time. In essence we are starting from a situation which is already bad whereas there does not seem to be that connotation existing with "bihtar karnaa/banaanaa" or "kisii chiiz meN bihtarii laanaa".


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> روز مرہ / یومی دارالاطفال , دار الحضانت (اطفال) , دارالامان ...? "jaa-e-nigahdaasht" could probably work as well (in addition to the suggestions provided in the previous posts)...perhaps _-e- اطفال / کم سن افراد _could be added for more detail.


Thank you so much for your contribution! I'll be refraining from any feedback until we get more input from others (I hope my question will not get lost amidst discussion on other topics).


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Welcome to the forum, langnerd.
> 
> Obviously BP SaaHib will no doubt clarify his position but I think I follow both your and his logic. One normally (perhaps) uses "sudhaarnaa" to improve something that is in the state of being "bigRii hu'ii". So if one was using "sudhaarnaa" to improve one's English, the impression in my mind would be that the person's English is in a bit of a mess at the time. In essence we are starting from a situation which is already bad whereas there does not seem to be that connotation existing with "bihtar karnaa/banaanaa" or "kisii chiiz meN bihtarii laanaa".



It is a fair explanation, I agree that the starting point of sudhaarnaa is something in a state of mess.

Welcome to langnerd,


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## Faylasoof

langnerd said:


> Hi, BP, I'm new the forum. I wanted to ask if others had the same understanding of
> 
> sudhaarnaa
> سدھارنا
> सुधारना ?
> 
> I always thought this word meant "to improve"? It's the word I'd naturally use for "good to better."


 Let me also welcome you to the forum! Actually, you are right! We do use سدھارنا  सुधारना _sudhaarnaa _to mean _improve_, so I would use it as mentioned by the OP. 

بہتر  _behtar_ means _better_ and _behtar karnaa _= _to make better_ / _improve_. You make something _behtar_ because it is bad (_bad_) or _badtar_ (worse). So the distinction between _sudhaarnaa_ and _behtar karnaa_ generally is not very sharp and in the context it would not be even considered. In fact, we use them interchangeably.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> Originally Posted by *Alfaaz*
> روز مرہ / یومی دارالاطفال , دار الحضانت (اطفال) , دارالامان ...? "jaa-e-nigahdaasht" could probably work as well (in addition to the suggestions provided in the previous posts)...perhaps _-e- اطفال / کم سن افراد _could be added for more detail.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much for your contribution! I'll be refraining from any feedback until we get more input from others (I hope my question will not get lost amidst discussion on other topics).
Click to expand...

 marrish SaaHib, _jaa-e-nigahdaasht-e-bachchagaan_ - a bit of the mouthful - would seem OK, or just _jaa-e-nigahdaasht_ if the context is clear, i.e. concerning children. Same for _nigahdaasht xaanah_, I guess. There is nothing officially accepted as yet so we are free to come up with reasonable suggestions. But I wouldn’t use دارالامان _daar-ul-amaan_ because that is what a _refuge_ is.


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## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> marrish SaaHib, _jaa-e-nigahdaasht-e-bachchagaan_ - a bit of the mouthful - would seem OK, or just _jaa-e-nigahdaasht_ if the context is clear, i.e. concerning children. Same for _nigahdaasht xaanah_, I guess. There is nothing officially accepted as yet so we are free to come up with reasonable suggestions. But I wouldn’t use دارالامان _daar-ul-amaan_ because that is what a _refuge_ is.


Faylasoof SaaHib, many thanks for your prompt answer and the suggestions. I like _nigahdaasht-xaanah_ very much because of its straight-forwardness. I'd like to move in this direction with this respect.


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## panjabigator

Curious, are we coining "_nigahdaasht-xaanah" _or has anyone ever heard this phrase used before?


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## marrish

panjabigator said:


> Curious, are we coining "_nigahdaasht-xaanah" _or has anyone ever heard this phrase used before?


Hi PG SaaHib, you have resurfaced and this is a good news! Not that I heard this word, otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question! Could you please expand the thread to Hindi and Punjabi please?


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## Qureshpor

There is a Ghalib shi3r which goes something like this.

paRiye gar biimaar to ko'ii nah ho *biimaar-daar*
aur agar mar jaa'iye to nauHah-xvaaN ko'ii nah ho

Steingass gives the meaning of "biimaar-daar" as " An attendant to the sick". On this pattern, can we have "*tifl-daar~gah*" (A place where some people attend to children). A (plant) nursery is termed as "nihaal-gaah". Another suggestion would therefore be "*atfaal-gaah*" or "*atfaal-xaanah*".


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## marrish

I'm impressed by the range of linguistic perspicacity here. I will no doubt consider these but: don't you think that the functional accent should be laid on the ''care'' as I had proposed before than on ''children''? It should be obvious from the context that children are meant. Anyway, I'm glad to have your first suggestion. I like the linkage to a nursery here.


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## panjabigator

I'm always lurking, Marrish Sahib, though my participation is mainly silent. 

I've added Hindi and Punjabi the thread.

As a side note, I actually learned the word "crèche" in Punjabi. I eventually figured out it was French, and not Punjabi.


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## marrish

marrish said:


> Could you please expand the thread to Hindi and Punjabi please?


Thank you very much!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I'm impressed by the range of linguistic perspicacity here. I will no doubt consider these but: don't you think that the functional accent should be laid on the ''care'' as I had proposed before than on ''children''? It should be obvious from the context that children are meant. Anyway, I'm glad to have your first suggestion. I like the linkage to a nursery here.



*bachchah-nigah~daarii*

*baal-dekh-bhaal/baal-bhaal

shishu-rakshaa
*
All these term could suffice for "child care" but the second one could also be taken as "hair care"! Arabic has* دار الحضانة *for a "crèche" but I am not sure if it the second element of the construction would be easily understood to be linked with child care.


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