# Something that would change/was going to change my life



## Michaeladara

Dear all, 

Regarding tense translation in Arabic to English - this is a tricky subject and obviously precise translations depend on context as much as anything else, but I would appreciate some suggestions on this translation. 
"I had just read something about the Congo that would change my life"
"I had just read something about the Congo that was going to change my life"

This is my attempt!
 كنت قد قرأت شيئاً عن الكونغو في  ذلك اللحظة غير حياتي

I have used the past tense for the second relativised clause as the implication is that his life did change. However, I was wondering whether this using سيغير would be better, although, then the implication is that his life hasn't changed yet...

Many thanks, 

Michaela


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## the-moon-light

michaeladara said:


> dear all,
> 
> "i had just read something about the congo that would change my life"


 
*كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما قد يغير حياتي.*



michaeladara said:


> dear all,
> 
> "i had just read something about the congo that was going to change my life"


 
*كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما سيغير حياتي*


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## translationlover

I agree with the first translation ...would.....

But the second one i think it would be more concise to translate it as

*كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما كان قد سيغير حياتي*

*The reason being "was going to" ( was about to change something in the past, but it didn't happen...) whereas p*

*مما سيغير حياتي something probable that was about to happen in the past *

*would be reflected in ........that will change my life ......future*



regards,


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## the-moon-light

> *كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما كان قد سيغير حياتي*


 
Actuly you can't say مما كان قد سيغير! it's totaly wrong!

because you can't say after "قد" a future verb. and you can't say before "قد" the word "كان" and then you use the future or present verb, because when you use "كان قد" you sould use the past tense verb after it, like: كان قد غيرَ and here قد has no translition to English.

would change my life: قد يغير حياتي
would change= قد يغير

was going to change my life: مما سيغير حياتي
was going to= مما سيغير


1- *كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما قد يغير حياتي.*
2- *كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما سيغير حياتي*
The difference between 2 sentences ( as I see) is that the first one means ( it might be happen) a change in my life, when the second one is ( there will be "for sure" some thing happen) to change my life.

and again it's only my humble opinion : )


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## Josh_

Actually, قد يغير does not work here, because this usage of "would" is not expressing possibility or uncertainty. Rather it is expressing the future in the past sentence, the same as "was going to." So the utterer of the sentence is saying that s/he had read something that eventually changed his/her life, but at the time s/he read it s/he did not know that.

I actually don't think "كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما سيغير حياتي" works either. I read that as:

"I had just read something about the Congo that will change my life."

...which does not express the the same thing as:

"I had just read something about the Congo that would change my life."

or:

"I had just read something about the Congo that was going to change my life."

...because it is implying that the change has not yet come. But maybe I am misunderstanding the Arabic sentence.

I think you would need a كان in there:

كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما كان سيغير حياتي

Perhaps you could also say something like this:

كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما غيّر حياتي فيما بعد

or

كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما غيّر حياتي في نهاية المطاف

But I think كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما كان سيغير حياتي is probably the best option.


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## Sidjanga

Hi all,
Interersting sentence.





Josh_ said:


> كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئاً عن الكونغو مما كان سيغير حياتي


Is the idea of "just" only expressed through للتو , or actually through قد...للتو ?

And what exactly is the function of مما here - in other words, why is من + ما \  مما  used to mean "that"?

Thanks.


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## Josh_

Sidjanga said:


> Hi all,
> Interersting sentence.Is the idea of "just" only expressed through للتو , or actually through قد...للتو ?


Only through للتو.



> And what exactly is the function of مما here - in other words, why is من + ما \ مما used to mean "that"?
> 
> Thanks.


مما is equivalent to saying الأمر الذي. You can also say مما أدّي إلى or الأمر الذي أدّي إلى followed by a maSdar. 

So the sentence could also be worded:

كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئًا عن الكونغو، الأمر الذي كان سيغير حياتي

or:

كنت قد قرأت للتو شيئًا عن الكونغو، الأمر الذي أدّي إلى تغيير في حياتي


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## cherine

Hi,
I don't think it's right to put كنت قد and للتو in the same structure like this, it seems contradictory, because كنت قد is used with an action that happened in a further past than للتو which means "right a moment ago".
So, it's either:
قرأت للتو I just read/just finished reading
or: كنت قرأت/كنت قد قرأت I have read (or I had read) I think I still make mistakes between the present perfect and the past perfect. 

I would drop قد altogether, unless it's needed for confirmation.


Michaeladara said:


> "I had just read something about the Congo that would change my life"
> "I had just read something about the Congo that was going to change my life"


Reading your translation, I think we need a clarification on whether "just" means "just now/a moment ago" or "only" or something else.

If it's "a moment ago", then للتو or لتوي is the right word. If not, then we'll need to reconsider the translations given.

I suggest:
قرأت للتو كتابًا عن الكونغو قد/ربما يغير حياتي
I just read a book about Congo that would/could change my life (in the future)



> This is my attempt!
> كنت قد قرأت شيئاً عن الكونغو في ذلك اللحظة غير حياتي
> 
> I have used the past tense for the second relativised clause as the implication is that his life did change. However, I was wondering whether this using سيغير would be better, although, then the implication is that his life hasn't changed yet...


If the life has changed already, then we can't use سيغير because it means that "it will change". We can only use غير حياتي.

So, here's another suggestion:
 قرأت شيئًا عن الكونغو غيّر حياتي.


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## Outlandish

> "I had just read something about the Congo that would change my life"
> "I had just read something about the Congo that was going to change my life"



The usage of "just" is intriguing. I suppose that the giver of this sentence meant by "had just" a specific moment in a past narration when certain events were going on in the past progressive time frame, then he/she had encountered a written material and read through it. Now after time has passed and his life has already changed because of it, he inserts this future information in his narration of that past progressive event. I need someone to agree with my understanding because I'm not 100% sure. My attempt for translation:

وكنت قد قرأت حينها شيئاً غير حياتى فيما بعد

For more clarification, s/he could substitute حينها with a clearer time expression, like: 

قبل ذلك (بدقائق-بأيام)
 سويعات قبل (حدث ما)
قبل أيام من ذلك


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## Josh_

cherine said:


> Hi,
> I don't think it's right to put كنت قد and للتو in the same structure like this, it seems contradictory, because كنت قد is used with an action that happened in a further past than للتو which means "right a moment ago".
> So, it's either:
> قرأت للتو I just read/just finished reading
> or: كنت قرأت/كنت قد قرأت I have read (or I had read) I think I still make mistakes between the present perfect and the past perfect.


Just to clarify, للتو can only be used in the present tense or the simple past? It cannot be used to indicate that something, that happened in the past, happened soon after another event, which also happened in the past?



> I would drop قد altogether, unless it's needed for confirmation.
> 
> Reading your translation, I think we need a clarification on whether "just" means "just now/a moment ago" or "only" or something else.
> 
> If it's "a moment ago", then للتو or لتوي is the right word. If not, then we'll need to reconsider the translations given.





Outlandish said:


> The usage of "just" is intriguing. I suppose that the giver of this sentence meant by "had just" a specific moment in a past narration when certain events were going on in the past progressive time frame, then he/she had encountered a written material and read through it. Now after time has passed and his life has already changed because of it, he inserts this future information in his narration of that past progressive event. I need someone to agree with my understanding because I'm not 100% sure.


 

"Just" in this sentence _does_ mean "but a moment before / within a brief preceding time." It could not mean anything else.

However, I can see how its usage in this sentence can be problematic or confusing, because in order to set out a time frame we need two events. This sentence only has one -- I had just read. So the question may arise "What happened when you had just read that?

Perhaps more context would clarfiy the matter. For example, let's add something to the original sentence:

"Before I boarded the plane, I had just read something..."

So now we have two events -- boarding the plane and reading something -- both which happened in the past. But since reading something took place before boarding the plane it is put in the pluperfect -- had read -- and since that event took place mere moments before boarding the plane "just" is inserted in order to indicate that.

So how could we express that in Arabic?



cherine said:


> If it's "a moment ago", then للتو or لتوي is the right word. If not, then we'll need to reconsider the translations given.
> 
> I suggest:
> قرأت للتو كتابًا عن الكونغو قد/ربما يغير حياتي
> I just read a book about Congo that would/could change my life (in the future)


Allow me to stress again that "would" in this sentence is not expressing possibility or uncertainty. Rather, it is expressing the future in the past; that is, we have two past events -- event B that comes after event A. So from the perspective of event A, event B is a future event. So in my humble opinion "قد/ربما يغير " would not work, unless I am misunderstanding how they can be used. 



> If the life has changed already, then we can't use سيغير because it means that "it will change".


Yes, this confirms what I was saying above. 





> We can only use غير حياتي.
> 
> So, here's another suggestion:
> قرأت شيئًا عن الكونغو غيّر حياتي.


I read that as "I read something about the Congo that changed my life," which does not express the same thing as the English original."

As far as I am aware كان سيفعل is a common way to express the future in the past. I suggested " كان سيغير حياتي" as a possible translation. What are your opinions of that? Is that not possible in this sentence?


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## cherine

Josh_ said:


> Just to clarify, للتو can only be used in the present tense or the simple past? It cannot be used to indicate that something, that happened in the past, happened soon after another event, which also happened in the past?


Ermmm... now I'm confused, so I won't try to answer this becaue I'm sure I'll say something that's either wrong or confusing. I'll try to think about it later, or -hopefully- someone will chime in with a clear answer. 


> "Just" in this sentence _does_ mean "but a moment before / within a brief preceding time." It could not mean anything else.
> 
> However, I can see how its usage in this sentence can be problematic or confusing, because in order to set out a time frame we need two events. This sentence only has one -- I had just read. So the question may arise "What happened when you had just read that?


Exactly. I felt there's something I was missing or didn't understand in that sentence.


> [...]"Before I boarded the plane, I had just read something..."
> [...]
> So how could we express that in Arabic?


Maybe: 
قرأتُ شيئًا قُبَيْل ركوبي/صعودي الطائرة
قرأت شيئًا قبل أن أصعد الطائرة بقليل


> Allow me to stress again that "would" in this sentence is not expressing possibility or uncertainty. Rather, it is expressing the future in the past; that is, we have two past events -- event B that comes after event A. So from the perspective of event A, event B is a future event. So in my humble opinion "قد/ربما يغير " would not work, unless I am misunderstanding how they can be used.


Thanks for the clarification, Josh. Yes, you're right: قد/ربما يغير can't be used with this meaning.


> As far as I am aware كان سيفعل is a common way to express the future in the past. I suggested " كان سيغير حياتي" as a possible translation. What are your opinions of that? Is that not possible in this sentence?


When I read كان سيغير حياتي I understand it as: it was going to change my life [but didn't].

The best alternative I can think of right now is this: غيّر حياتي فيما بعد or غيّر حياتي بعدها = changed my life later/after that.


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## Ghabi

cherine said:


> When I read كان سيغير حياتي I understand it as: it was going to change my life [but didn't].


Yes, I think that means "that could have changed my life". For example, one can say after an accident: _kuntu sa2amuut_ "I could have been killed", right?


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## cherine

Yes, that's it. Or, more precisely: "I was going to die".


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## ghad

cherine said:


> Yes, that's it. Or, more precisely: "I was going to die".


I think that can be translated to كنت على وشك أن أموت / كنتُ على وشك الموت  (but I didn't)



Ghabi said:


> "I could have been killed"


كان يمكن أن أكون قد مِتُّ / كان يمكن أن أموت (but I didn't again )


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## cherine

ghad said:


> I think that can be translated to كنت على وشك أن أموت / كنتُ على وشك الموت  (but I didn't)


This is more like: I was about to die. But I agree that it has almost the same meaning as كنت سأموت


> كان يمكن أن أكون قد مِتُّ / كان يمكن أن أموت (but I didn't again )


كان يمكن أن أموت I could have died. Correct sentence, no problem.
كان يمكن أن أكون قد مت is a complicate structure for no obvious reason. I can't translate it, let alone understand what exactly you mean by it.


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## Josh_

cherine said:


> When I read كان سيغير حياتي I understand it as: it was going to change my life [but didn't].


 
Hmm.  I know that that form in the Egyptian dialect (كان حيفعل) can hold that meaning (something was going to happen or something almost happened (but didn't)), but I thought the meaning was broader than that, particularly in MSA.  

I apologize for my persistence, but I just keep thinking that there just has to be a way express the future in the past.  غيّر حياتي فيما بعد or غيّر حياتي بعدها may work for the sentence in question, but probably would not work for other sentences.  But I will open a new thread to discuss it so as not to take this thread off track.


By the way, congrats on reaching 10,000 posts, ya Cherine.


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## cherine

Josh_ said:


> Hmm.  I know that that form in the Egyptian dialect (كان حيفعل) can hold that meaning (something was going to happen or something almost happened (but didn't)), but I thought the meaning was broader than that, particularly in MSA.


As far as I know, it has the same meaning in both colloquial and fuS7a.
I'll check your other thread. 


> By the way, congrats on reaching 10,000 posts, ya Cherine.


Merci ya Josh. Although it makes me feel a bit old. )


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