# ὡς / ὅτι / ὁσα



## soplamocos

Hello.
I a have a doubt about this three words (In Spanish I would call them relative pronouns).
I think that there is a difference between ὅτι and ὡς, consisting in a less objetive information following to ὡς than to ὅτι.
But I don't understand well the difference between ὡς / ὅσος.

Could somene explain it a little? Thank you.

****

I have been reading a little about this. So, this is what I think (if I'm wrong, please correct me).
ὡς, is an adverb, with several uses, among them one as a relative, which could mean: how
ὅσος, is an adjetive-relative, that sometimes can be used as an adverb, meaning: how much


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## sotos

I didn't quite understand the question. Ως and όσος are very different. At least you cannot confuse them in modern greek, since the ως is used mostly in old greek and katharevousa.


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## soplamocos

Hi Sotos, when I wrote this I was in doubt, now after some battles with this words I see them more clear.


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## Scholiast

χαίρετ᾽ ὦ φἰλοι

ὡς has several functions (in classical Greek, which as I understand it soplamocos is chiefly interested in here): (1) as an adverb (= more or less οὕτως, 'thus', 'so'); (2) as a conjunction introducing indirect speech (= more or less ὅτι, Engl. '[he said] that'); (3) with superlative adjectives or adverbs (ὡς τάχιστα = 'as quickly as possible'), and a few others (see L&S_ s.v._).

ὅσος means, as the OP remarks, 'how much' or 'so much', and in the plural 'how many', 'so many', often, but not always, in connection with consecutive clauses.

Σ


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## Nahuel O Tavros

soplamocos said:


> Hello.
> I a have a doubt about this three words (In Spanish I would call them relative pronouns).
> I think that there is a difference between ὅτι and ὡς, consisting in a less objetive information following to ὡς than to ὅτι.
> But I don't understand well the difference between ὡς / ὅσος.
> 
> Could somene explain it a little? Thank you.
> 
> ****
> 
> I have been reading a little about this. So, this is what I think (if I'm wrong, please correct me).
> ὡς, is an adverb, with several uses, among them one as a relative, which could mean: how
> ὅσος, is an adjetive-relative, that sometimes can be used as an adverb, meaning: how much




Hello, Soplamocos. Funny nickname! I'm from an area where Rioplatense Spanish is spoken. Nice to know of you. 
First of all, as far as I know, ως is not an adverb. You cannot leave it just like that in a sentence (Ο άντρας κάθισε ως. This is wrong). 
Second, I may say something about the thing you see about information following to os and the oti. Os in general is used with the word 'como' in Spanish or 'as' in English. You could say in Greek 'Ως καθηγητής αυτός είναι πολύ καλός.' (Συγκριτικό ως) Μind you, it is a preposition, not an adverb. 
In accordance with Mpampiniotis's dictionary, ως comes from the word έως. It may be used with place ('to' or 'hasta'), time ('up to' or 'hasta'), quantity ('including' or 'hasta') and you can use it in various different grammatical structures like 'Οι λέξεις αυτές λειτουργούν σήμερα ΩΣ προθέσεις και ΩΣ σύνδεσμοι', without accent mark. Otherwise, if you use it with an accent mark, you would be speaking of the time meaning of the preposition. 
As regards όσος, if you know English, you can deal with it easily. You just take into account that it is to be used before nouns, always as adjective (this is not always the case, mind you, since you have cases in which the όσος is not an adverb -but I'm not that sure about this). It means 'as much', for instance, 

Κάνω όση δουλειά μπορώ. 
Ι do as much work as I can.

Mpampiniotis says it's a pronoun and not an adjective. There are a series of usages which appear in the dictionary which I would like to quote. They are:
It can be used in the structure 'όσος... τόσος'. It can be used in the expressions which begin a relative sentence or phrase (όσοι μπορούν να έρθουν θα έρθουν). It has got, with the words και να, a specific meaning. That is to say, 'disregarding quantity' such as in the sentence Θα του δώσουμε όσο και να ζητήσει. It has the usage of the plural, like in the sentence "Του έκλεψαν όσα είχει και δεν είχε". 
They are all... I hope that you didn't get confused with what I wrote. 

If you find anything wrong or something which you don't agree with, tell me. 
Have a nice day!

Nos vemos,

Nahuel Vento


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## Nahuel O Tavros

'Οτι is a conjunction and is used before a phrase to make it subordinate. Για παράδειγμα, νωμίζω ότι εσύ δεν φταίς ποτέ. In this case you can see how useful the oti can be. You just give it a try... It has the same usage as πως like in 'Είπες πως εγώ δεν θα ήμουνα παρών.' 
Do you read often in Greek? You must have seen this usage in subordinate clauses.


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## Αγγελος

Nahuel Vento, I think your remarks confused Soplamocos instead of helping him.
He was most probably asking about _Classical _Greek.
In Classical Greek, ὡς had several meanings as a preposition, but was also a conjunction, used instead of ὅτι to imply that the quoted statement is not endorsed by the quoter. And it could also be an adverb, meaning "thus".
I agree that ὅσος has nothing to do with ὡς and ὅτι and can hardly be confused with either one.


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Oops. Sorry. I think that I made a mistake, then. It looked strange the usage of spirits in Modern Greek.
Sorry, Soplamocos!


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## soplamocos

Thank you both for your answers.

First, yes, I was asking about Classical Greek. I do not read it very often, but at least once a month a couple of paragraphs.

As I said, to compare the meaning of ὡς and ὅσος was hard to me because in Spanish we could use the same word for both meanings: _como_.
Here there is a brief and better example of those uses than what will I say. It's in Spanish. Also you could plus to that list the interrogative _cómo_.

You could say: _¿Cómo de grande es? ¿Cuán grande es?_ and you could be asking: _How big is it? _or_ How much big is it?_
You could say: _Es grande como una casa _and you would be saying _It's big like a house,_ or _It's as big as a house_.

The solution for me was to start thinking the ὅσος like "_cuán_", which is not a common use word. I think that I have not pronunce it even once in my life, only read it ^^

Finally, about ὅσος as an adverb, my Greek dictionary says that it can be translated as "cuánto, como; aproximadamente; solamente (οὐχ ὅσον= no sólo/solamente). Even it adds a last aception for the use with superlatives: ὅσον τάχιστα= lo más rápidamente posible.


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Oh, I see. Sorry to interrupt with another language, then.


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## bearded

Nahuel O Tavros said:


> It has the same usage as πως


I would like to know how common ''pos''  is in Modern Greek - as a conjunction - instead of ''oti''.


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## Αγγελος

Very. If anything, πως is more common that ότι in colloquial speech. Then again, ότι is far more common in serious writing, and is the only possibility in the expression το ότι (=the fact that).


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Aggele, and what about the structure 'to + na + verb'? Should I open a new thread?


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## Αγγελος

If you have questions about it, yes. This thread is definitely not the place to discuss it.


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