# وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِ مُهَاناً



## Ibn Nacer

Hello,


وَالَّذِينَ لَا يَدْعُونَ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَهاً آخَرَ وَلَا يَقْتُلُونَ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ وَلَا يَزْنُونَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَاماً 
يُضَاعَفْ لَهُ الْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِ مُهَاناً


the word فِيهِ refers to what?
Does this word refers necessarily  to a place? What is this place?

thank  you very much​


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## AndyRoo

Hello,

This is from the Holy Qur'an 25.68 and 25.69 (if you knew this already, it would help us if you told us - thanks.)

I think it must relate to العذاب . I doubt it relates to جهنم or النار as these are both feminine nouns.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> I think it must relate to العذاب . I doubt it relates to جهنم or النار as these are both feminine nouns.


hello

yes you are right, these are the verses of the Qor'an.



AndyRoo said:


> I think it must relate to العذاب . I doubt it relates to جهنم or النار  as these are both feminine nouns.



If the word فِيهِ  refers to "العذاب " then how  to interpret the expression "وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِ مُهَاناً" ?


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## AndyRoo

Ibn Nacer said:


> If the word فِيهِ refers to "العذاب " then how to interpret the expression "وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِ مُهَاناً" ?


 
Well I thought something like:

"he will abide in it [=torment], distained forever".

I'm not 100% sure though, so it would be better to wait for other opinions.


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## Ibn Nacer

Hello,

It seems that there is an opinion that says the word "أَثَاماً " is a  place in hell. Is this possible in the Arabic language? The word  فِيهِ can refer to this place?


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> Well I thought something like:
> 
> "he will abide in it [=torment], distained forever".
> 
> I'm not 100% sure though, so it would be better to wait for other opinions.



The word  "in" refers to a place, no?


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## AndyRoo

Ibn Nacer said:


> It seems that there is an opinion that says the word "أَثَاماً " is a place in hell. Is this possible in the Arabic language? The word the word فِيهِ can refer to this place?


 
I haven't seen any commentaries or translations saying this means a place in hell. Who is saying this?

I understand it means punishment or penalty.



Ibn Nacer said:


> The word "in" refers to a place, no?


 
It doesn't have to be a place. It could refer to many things, e.g. dates, times.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> I haven't seen any commentaries or translations saying this means a place in hell. Who is saying this?



Tafsir Ibnu Kathir.


﴿وَمَن  يَفْعَلْ ذلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَاماً﴾
 (and whoever does this shall receive Athama.) It was recorded that  `Abdullah bin `Amr said: "Athama is a valley in Hell.'' `Ikrimah also  said that Athama refers to valleys in Hell in which those who commit  unlawful sexual acts will be punished. This was also narrated from Sa`id  bin Jubayr and Mujahid. As-Suddi said that Athama referred to  punishment, which is closer to the apparent meaning of the Ayah. This  interpretation makes it interchangeable with what comes next, the Ayah:
 ﴿يُضَـعَفْ  لَهُ الْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ الْقِيـمَةِ﴾
 (The torment will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection,)  i.e., repetitive and intensified.
 ﴿وَيَخْلُدْ  فِيهِ مُهَاناً﴾
 (and he will abide therein in disgrace scorned and humiliated.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> It doesn't have to be a place. It could refer to many things, e.g. dates, times.



in this case, it can refer to "يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ" or not ?



AndyRoo said:


> I understand it means punishment or penalty.



this  word is also the plural of sin, no ?


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## AndyRoo

Ibn Nacer said:


> Tafsir Ibnu Kathir.
> 
> 
> ﴿وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَاماً﴾
> (and whoever does this shall receive Athama.) It was recorded that `Abdullah bin `Amr said: "Athama is a valley in Hell.'' `Ikrimah also said that Athama refers to valleys in Hell in which those who commit unlawful sexual acts will be punished. This was also narrated from Sa`id bin Jubayr and Mujahid. As-Suddi said that Athama referred to punishment, which is closer to the apparent meaning of the Ayah. This interpretation makes it interchangeable with what comes next, the Ayah:
> ﴿يُضَـعَفْ لَهُ الْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ الْقِيـمَةِ﴾.


 
From the section highlighted in red above, it seems Ibnu Kathir is discounting the "valley in Hell" interpretation.



Ibn Nacer said:


> in this case, it can refer to "يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ"


 
Yes it could do, but I thought it would be difficult to abide in the *day* of resurrection *forever*. But I could very well be mistaken.



Ibn Nacer said:


> this word is also the plural of sin, no ?


 
Yes normally this word means "sins", but in this verse, it seems usually to be translated as punishment/penalty.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> From the section highlighted in red above, it seems Ibnu Kathir is discounting the "valley in Hell" interpretation.



I did not understand the word "discounting" ? You  mean that Ibnu Kathir chose the interpretation of As-Suddi ?





AndyRoo said:


> Yes it could do, but I thought it would be difficult to abi
> Yes normally this word means "sins", but in this verse, it seems usually  to be translated as punishment/penalty.



Is this a punishment in lower world (douniya) or in the  hereafter?


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## AndyRoo

Ibn Nacer said:


> I did not understand the word "discounting" ? You mean that Ibnu Kathir chose the interpretation of As-Suddi ?


Yes that's right - that's how I read it.



Ibn Nacer said:


> Is this a punishment in lower world (douniya) or in the hereafter?


I don't think it specifies, but I think punishment happens mostly in the hereafter.


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## Mahaodeh

As a native Arabic speaker (i.e., not as a Quranic scholar), I understand it to refer to العذاب, I have no doubt about it. في does not have to refer to a place nor something physical; it's very normal in Arabic to say في عذاب، في سعادة، في هم، في شغل، في لهو، في عبث... الخ.

To me, since the waw تعطف الخلود على المضاعفة then it only makes sense that the ه in فيه referst to العذاب. It generally means: يضاعف له العذاب ويخلد في العذاب مهانا. The haa' is to avoid repeating the word.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> Yes that's right - that's how I read it.
> 
> 
> I don't think it specifies, but I think punishment happens mostly in the hereafter.


thank you very much




Mahaodeh said:


> As a native Arabic speaker (i.e., not as a  Quranic scholar), I understand it to refer to العذاب, I have no doubt  about it. في does not have to refer to a place nor something physical;  it's very normal in Arabic to say في عذاب، في سعادة، في هم، في شغل، في  لهو، في عبث... الخ.
> 
> To me, since the waw تعطف الخلود على المضاعفة then it only makes sense  that the ه in فيه referst to العذاب. It generally means: يضاعف له العذاب  ويخلد في العذاب مهانا. The haa' is to avoid repeating the word.


thank you very much.

If the ه in فيه  refers to العذاب what's the point of this expression "يضاعف له   العذاب" ?


If this phrase "يضاعف  له  العذاب" means  "the punishment will be doubled to him" then we have :

- a  single punishment (العذاب) = *S* and
- a double   punishment* = *2x S  = *D*.

From what you said (ويخلد في العذاب): the punishment   to be applied forever is S and not D.

In this case  what is the point to mention the double punishment (D) ?

Is  it possible that the pronoun refers to an expression like "يضاعف له   العذاب" ? Is it  possible that the pronoun  ه in فيه refers to *D* rather than *S ?*

  thank  you very much


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## AndyRoo

Ibn Nacer said:


> Is it possible that the pronoun refers to an expression like "يضاعف له العذاب" ? Is it possible that the pronoun ه in فيه refers to *D* rather than *S ?*


 
Well obviously it must be talking about the "double" punishment continuing forever, but whether the ه in فيه refers to the whole phrase يضاعف له العذاب, I'm not sure. You might be overthinking it. Double punishment is still "punishment", after all.

If it was translated into English as something like: "the punishment will be doubled and he will reside in this punishment forever", you wouldn't think it meant he'd reside in the "single" punishment forever, would you? I think the Arabic has the same idea.


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## cherine

Hi,


AndyRoo said:


> You might be overthinking it.


I agree with AndyRoo. This sentence is very simple, why are you trying to over-analyze it?

Well, I'll try to explain it in French, maybe it's easier this way:

يضاعَف له العذاب veut dire qu'il sera doublement puni, qu'il aura une punition plus grande que celle reçue par d'autres personnes (pour des pêches moins sérieux, si l'on peut le dire ainsi).
ويخلد فيه et cette plus forte punition sera pour l'éternité.

Si ce n'est toujours pas assez claire, dit-le moi, mais essaie d'abord de consulter les traductions françaises de ce verset.


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## Ibn Nacer

AndyRoo said:


> Well obviously it must be talking about the "double" punishment continuing forever, but whether the ه in فيه refers to the whole phrase يضاعف له العذاب, I'm not sure. You might be overthinking it. Double punishment is still "punishment", after all.
> 
> If it was translated into English as something like: "the punishment will be doubled and he will reside in this punishment forever", you wouldn't think it meant he'd reside in the "single" punishment forever, would you? I think the Arabic has the same idea.


thank you very much


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## Ibn Nacer

cherine said:


> Hi,
> 
> I agree with AndyRoo. This sentence is very simple, why are you trying to over-analyze it?
> 
> Well, I'll try to explain it in French, maybe it's easier this way:
> 
> يضاعَف له العذاب veut dire qu'il sera doublement puni, qu'il aura une punition plus grande que celle reçue par d'autres personnes (pour des pêches moins sérieux, si l'on peut le dire ainsi).
> ويخلد فيه et cette plus forte punition sera pour l'éternité.
> 
> Si ce n'est toujours pas assez claire, dit-le moi, mais essaie d'abord de consulter les traductions françaises de ce verset.


Bonjour Cherine,

Merci beaucoup pour ton explication, oui je vais consulter les traductions incha Allâh.

Est-ce que la punition qui est doublée ou plus forte, c'est celle qui est mentionnée juste avant, c'est-à-dire " أَثَاماً " ?

Tafsir Ibnu Kathir :


﴿وَمَن  يَفْعَلْ ذلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَاماً﴾
 (and whoever does this shall receive Athama.) It was recorded that   `Abdullah bin `Amr said: "Athama is a valley in Hell.'' `Ikrimah also   said that Athama refers to valleys in Hell in which those who commit   unlawful sexual acts will be punished. This was also narrated from Sa`id   bin Jubayr and Mujahid.* As-Suddi said that Athama referred to   punishment, which is closer to the apparent meaning of the Ayah. This   interpretation makes it interchangeable with what comes next*, the Ayah:
﴿يُضَـعَفْ  لَهُ الْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ  الْقِيـمَةِ﴾
*(The torment will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection,)   i.e., repetitive and intensified.*
﴿وَيَخْلُدْ  فِيهِ مُهَاناً﴾
 (and he will abide therein in disgrace scorned and humiliated.


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