# Calling by first name or last name



## Jalc

Just arriving in USA, I have a lot of contacts with people in shops or service providers by phone.
They all present themselves by their first name. Should I do the same?

I noticed that when I present myself with first and last name, they will call me Mr. ... whereas I can only call them by their first name.

Is this a usual situation ?

Thanks


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## .   1

If you introduce yourself with only your first name you give no choice to the responders.  They must call you by that name.
If you introduce yourself with your full name you introduce possible confusion and then the most polite manner to respond is by way of Mr. Jalc as this does not risk insulting you.

.,,


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## Jalc

Thanks, Mr .,, 

Ok, but what would be the usual american practice?


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## Sabelotodo

Shop clerks, waiters, and waitresses, etc. usually offer their first names only.  Sometimes they are required to wear a nametag with their first name.  This serves two purposes.  The first is that it gives a friendly impression to invite someone to call you by your first name.  The second is that it protects the salesperson's identity from dangerous crazy people.

As for the customers, they are traditionally addressed by their last name, especially if they are older than the salesperson.  That custom is changing.  I have frequently been addressed by my first name by young cashiers who have read my name on my check or credit card.  They are just trying to be friendly, and no one has taught them that many people, especially the older generations, find that very presumptuous.


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## Tsoman

I only like to be called by my first name. I don't like anyone calling me Mr. O'Brien (that's my last name).

Calling someone by their last name, to me implies some sort of difference in social level. It's not very friendly.

These are only my impressions.


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## rsweet

My feelings about this have changed a lot as I've gotten older. I used to feel uncomfortable being called Mrs. ____ in my twenties and thirties, but now, when I'm addressed this way in a store or restaurant, I quite enjoy it. It's a sign of respect. I agree that I wouldn't like my neighbors, or anyone else I had an ongoing friendly relationship with, to call me Mrs. ____. That would feel cold.


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## Trina

rsweet said:


> My feelings about this have changed a lot as I've gotten older. I used to feel uncomfortable being called Mrs. ____ in my twenties and thirties, but now, when I'm addressed this way in a store or restaurant, I quite enjoy it. It's a sign of respect. I agree that I wouldn't like my neighbors, or anyone else I had an ongoing friendly relationship with, to call me Mrs. ____. That would feel cold.


I feel the same way. 
One of my pet hates is being addressed by my first name by a complete stranger  (eg  over the phone, when querying a phone bill  etc or even worse by some telemarketer phoning me out of the blue.) Does this happen a lot in non-English speaking countries or does it mainly occur only in English speaking countries? Somehow, I cannot imagine this happening in say Germany, Italy or France.


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## übermönch

Trina said:


> I feel the same way.
> One of my pet hates is being addressed by my first name by a complete stranger  (eg  over the phone, when querying a phone bill  etc or even worse by some telemarketer phoning me out of the blue.) Does this happen a lot in non-English speaking countries or does it mainly occur only in English speaking countries? Somehow, I cannot imagine this happening in say Germany, Italy or France.


Nope, at least in Germany you'd only be called Frau/Herr XXX by strangers and even collegues. Calling someone by first name can sound disrespectful or irritating if not used by a friend, a known to you, or an elder person. It similar in Russian, however to show respect, the calling is  full first name+paternal name; i.e. Johnathan Williamovich for John Smith, son of Bill Smith. However some america or europe based companies use the Mr./Gospodin XXX form in Russian which sounds rather odd - and, both in German and Russian, many (advert) companies may try to copy american style conversations seeing them as a model of smart marketing.


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## mansio

In many non-English speaking countries you can easily choose two levels of language, friendly or polite, by using the "thou" or the "you".

It does not exist in English. So I think that in many cases the use of the first name is a kind of "thou" form.
When an American tells you "Call me John" that corresponds to us Continentals saying "You can say "thou" to me".


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## beclija

By the way, speakers of languages that make a difference between formal and informal "you", does it correlate 100% with the use of first versus last names? (I guess not in Russian by übermönch's description.) It does not necessarily correlate in Austria. One example, in High School teachers are requested to use the formal "Sie" and the last names towards their pupils who are older than 15, and often it sticks so the kids (mostly boys) call each other by last names, kind of cool I guess. Some people, especially males again, stick to it, so that virtually the only people to call them by first name are their family.

Shop keepers wouldn't usually adress you by any name even if they see it on your credit card unless you are a regular and engage in some actual conversation with them. Why should they? It's indiscret to know take unfair advantage of the fact that your name is spelled out on the card (see thread "German privacy").

At work it very much depends, whereever I have worked it was informal "Du" and first names (unless the person has a "sticky last name" as described above, but again without any "Mr."), but I guess that's different in the High Court . At university, teachers among each others at some smaller departments teachers with advanced students that are active in their area would also mostly use "Du" and first names after some explicit decision to do so. Otherwhise in any student-teacher relation formal "Sie" and last names is required on both sides.

What I have noticed in former Yugoslavia, which is absent in Austria, is the commen use of formal "Vi" "gospodin/gospođa" (Mr./Mrs.) together with first names. This would be the most common for strangers I guess, and often for work collegues. What I also noticed is that it is quite common if there is some age difference, that over long time the younger person uses "Vi" while the older person uses "Ti" (work collegues, for example but also casual relations). In Austria or Germany to the opposite, if someone ever so much older uses informal "Du" to an adult person, it's either offensive or an invitation to do the same.

In smallish villages the formal "Sie" is rather unusual and usually everyone uses "Du" for ever so slight acquaintances as long as they are local. The only one possibly adressed with "Sie" would be the medic that moved here from town, and he or she might not be very happy about it as it shows that they are still considered a stranger.


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## DrLindenbrock

In Italy the correlation between the use of first names and the use of the polite form is pretty strong. The only exception is in high-school (just an empirical observation of mine, I did no advanced statistical research   ) where most students call each other by the last name although, of course, conversation is very informal. 
At university people seem to go back to using first names.


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## beclija

Is calling each other by last name in school a boys' thing in Italy (as it largely is in Austria), or independent of gender? I'm just curious...
Off topic: another boys' thing that often holds on to adulthood is naming (or asking for) year of birth rather than age. I don't think there is even an English translation for "Was bist du für ein Jahrgänger?"


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## jinti

Going back to the original question:


Jalc said:


> Just arriving in USA, I have a lot of contacts with people in shops or service providers by phone.
> They all present themselves by their first name. Should I do the same?
> 
> I noticed that when I present myself with first and last name, they will call me Mr. ... whereas I can only call them by their first name.
> 
> Is this a usual situation ?


 
When people introduce themselves to me in a business context with first and last name, I will generally call them Mr/Ms. LastName until asked to do otherwise ("Oh, just call me FirstName"). I also generally call them Mr./Ms. LastName right away or as soon as possible in the conversation (like repeating their name when first introduced to make sure I got it right) because that way, if they prefer me to use their first name, they'll tell me immediately. I do this because I don't want to offend them, and the only way to be sure is to wait for an invitation. This is especially true when I'm dealing with people obviously older than myself (which is a high percentage of my dealings), but in a formal situation, I've done it with people around my age or younger as well. 

So your contacts might be waiting for an invitation to be on a first-name basis with you. It is certainly common practice in the US, especially among younger people, because formal is often equated with unfriendly here.


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## Jalc

Thanks, Jinti.
This clarifies the practice.

To the question of 100% correlation between first names and informal you, there are many business situations in France where if you know your provider pretty well, but would not consider each-other as friends, we would use the formal you "vous" and the firstnames.


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## swift_precision

I usually request with someone who I don't know that they address me by my first name primarily because many people end up slaughtering my last name when I do tell it to them. Even when I give them my first name it is a truncated version of the name, because, I have said I'm tired of people slaughtering my name. Only a few people have been able to pronounce my name correctly on a first time, and surprisingly these people were not native English speakers...with the exception of one person.


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## don maico

Ive never understood why people should be feel insulted if called by their first names.After all the Christain name is the persons name whereas the surname is the family name. Mind you I dislike formalities


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## don maico

mansio said:


> In many non-English speaking countries you can easily choose two levels of language, friendly or polite, by using the "thou" or the "you".
> 
> It does not exist in English. So I think that in many cases the use of the first name is a kind of "thou" form.
> When an American tells you "Call me John" that corresponds to us Continentals saying "You can say "thou" to me".


 Thee and thou are no longer much in use except in some parts of the north of England as in thou hast


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## DrLindenbrock

beclija said:


> Is calling each other by last name in school a boys' thing in Italy (as it largely is in Austria), or independent of gender? I'm just curious...
> Off topic: another boys' thing that often holds on to adulthood is naming (or asking for) year of birth rather than age. I don't think there is even an English translation for "Was bist du für ein Jahrgänger?"


 
Now that you make me think about it, it's probably more a boy's thing....but not exclusively  .
Also, even if some girls call themselves using the first name, they tend to call their male classemates by their last name.

Yeah, I guess we males tend to use more "di che anno sei?" (literally, "what year are you from?") than "quanti anni hai?" (how old are you?).

Thank you for your stimulating questions  !


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## Daddyo

In the States people do have this thing about using the first name first, and even get a bit offended (an treat you stand-offish) if you insist on NOT getting personal. I've heard many hippy-era throw-backs still arguing with feeling that "Mr. So-and-so is my father, dude!"
Nuts to them, I say.
I'm Mr Daddyo to you, unless we have spent some bonding moments or some intimate instances together. Even then, you may still wish to call me Mr Tibbs.
Er... Mr Daddyo, I meant to say.


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## don maico

Daddyo said:


> In the States people do have this thing about using the first name first, and even get a bit offended (an treat you stand-offish) if you insist on NOT getting personal. I've heard many hippy-era throw-backs still arguing with feeling that "Mr. So-and-so is my father, dude!"
> Nuts to them, I say.
> I'm Mr Daddyo to you, unless we have spent some bonding moments or some intimate instances together. Even then, you may still wish to call me Mr Tibbs.
> Er... Mr Daddyo, I meant to say.



I thought hippies wer meant to be informal. Its like you are saying they thinks its ok to address them by their christain name but thier fathers MUST be known by their surnames


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## Etcetera

übermönch said:


> It similar in Russian, however to show respect, the calling is  full first name+paternal name; i.e. Johnathan Williamovich for John Smith, son of Bill Smith. However some america or europe based companies use the Mr./Gospodin XXX form in Russian which sounds rather odd - and, both in German and Russian, many (advert) companies may try to copy american style conversations seeing them as a model of smart marketing.


"Johnatan Williamovich" made me laugh. 
Personally, I strongly dislike this tradition of calling a person by their first name and patronym, and especially when the person is young. Calling an elderly person by first name and patronym is absolutely OK to me, but when someone is trying to call me 'Anna Valeryevna", well, I feel really uncomfortable! Even if this happens in the most formal situation, I would still ask my vis-a-vis to call me by my first name only.
A lot of Russian companies copy this American style, mainly those whose employees are mostly young people. But even in those companies, a 45-years-old manager would still be called formally, by their first namy and patronym (or using "Gospodin/gospozha" and their surname). Unless they look some ten years younger.


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## Sabelotodo

don maico said:


> I thought hippies wer meant to be informal. Its like you are saying they thinks its ok to address them by their christain name but thier fathers MUST be known by their surnames


 
Yes, I'm sure that's what Daddyo meant.  Hippie types are informal.  They aren't accustomed to answering to their last names.  If they hear someone use their last names, to them it sounds like you are talking to their parents.


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## venenum

beclija said:


> What I have noticed in former Yugoslavia, which is absent in Austria, is the commen use of formal "Vi" "gospodin/gospođa" (Mr./Mrs.) together with first names. This would be the most common for strangers I guess, and often for work collegues. What I also noticed is that it is quite common if there is some age difference, that over long time the younger person uses "Vi" while the older person uses "Ti" (work collegues, for example but also casual relations). In Austria or Germany to the opposite, if someone ever so much older uses informal "Du" to an adult person, it's either offensive or an invitation to do the same.


 
This thing is perfectly normal in Croatia (and other former Yugoslav countries): as a younger person, I'm supposed to use the formal _Sie (Vi)_ with my elders, to whom I want to show respect. But, since I'm younger than they are, they have the right to adress me with informal _Du (ti)_. I would feel strange if a significantly older person would adress me formally (Vi). Geez, I still burst to laughter when kids of 10 adress me like that (although it's perfectly normal and just shows their good manners). 
The situation where an older person would adress the younger the formal way is in "formal" situations - if you come to an office, to a store or some place similar, it's expected that the clerc/salesperson/person working there would adress you, as his/her customer, with formal _Vi_, and the same is expected from you.

The situation that may seem strange to most foreigners is the use of the first name and the formal _Vi_. This is used when you are friendly with a person significantly older than you (you are friends, but it would still be considered rude to use informal _ti _because of the age difference), or between people of the same age who aren't close friends, and want to keep (usually professional) distance from each other. Between close acquaintances, if the age difference is really big, you may feel that the use of the first name only is inapropperiate, and use of the last name sounds too official, so you choose the mr./mrs. + first name form. (Totally rude if you're talking to a stranger) 


Poison


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## Riccardino

In High School, all boys highschool I should note, we addressed each other by last names, with only a few exceptions. It was the way we were addressed by the teachers, whom we refered to as Mr/Mrs _____ unless we wanted to talk about them pejoratively, which was often, in which case we'd use their first name. 

In College, first names are had by all, but I wouldn't feel weird to call a male by their last name. I would never call a female by her last name though - can't really say why.

Myself, I offer my fullname - Richard - in formal situations, and my informal name - Rich - in everyday situations. And then at home I have a more diminutive name - Richie. Being only 19 years old, I find it weird to be addressed as Mr and then my last name.

In College, calling a Professor by their first name, unless specifically invited, is a big taboo, whereas the graduate students who help Faculty usually go by their first names.

In general, the trend is becoming to use first names and informal address in almost every situation.


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## beclija

Maybe slightly off topic, but in older days the formal way to adress people was "Ihr" rather than "Sie", and it is still sometimes used in small villages (where, as I explained, "Sie" is uncommon") to express respect towards old people... _very _old people. It doesn't sound very natural to me, but my Mum regularly uses it, and she's only fifty. But I don't know how that generalizes to the rest of German-speaking area, maybe rural parts of Austria are just lagging a few centuries behind...

Generally, the "Sie" is reduced compared to even a few decades ago. In most contexts, except maybe in a shop, I'd find it very unnatural to be adressed with "Sie" by someone my age, or anyone before around thirty, and even there it isn't offensive to use "Du" among young people. I'm presently reading some plays by G.E. Lessing, and there people adress there parents with formal "Sie", or long-time lovers each other. Dubbed American films often use "Sie" much more than seems natural to my ears, they might not be long before _that _scene comes that people switch to "Du" - hilarious...

I find it rather annoying, though, if advertisements use "Du".


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## itka

Very interessant thread, but my english is not good enough to be sure I understand all.
Could you tell me clearly what are : firstname, secondname, middlename,lastname, fathername, patronym, shortname ecc...? I'm lost ! 

Beclija, it is interessant to see that "Ihr" is replacing sometimes the formal "Sie". It seems to me that the same thing happens in italian between "Loro" and "voi"... So the formal form becomes the 2nd of plural (instead of the 3rd).

Regarding the use in french : we normally use "vous" with everybody we don't know, except (but not always) between young people. Sometimes, we never change. There are people that I know very well and who I address with "vous" after thirty years though we are very closed. Otherwise, like in other countries, we use "vous" to old people and "tu" to younger people.
In a shop, a restaurant, any commercial relation, we never use "tu" neither any personal name. "tu" is reserved to family and good friends of the same age.
Nowadays, some commercial phone calls begin with "Madame Untel..." I, and most of the persons I know find it very rude, but managing directors think that's great to call people with a name. I don't know wether their financial results approve it !


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## Chaska Ñawi

itka said:


> Very interessant thread, but my english is not good enough to be sure I understand all.
> Could you tell me clearly what are : firstname, secondname, middlename,lastname, fathername, patronym, shortname ecc...? I'm lost !



Maybe this will help a little:

English:  
Susan Virginia Edwards
First name:  Susan  (nickname or short name - Susie)
Middle or second name:  Virginia
Last name:  Edwards

Spanish:  
Eduardo Hurtado Flores
First name:  Eduardo
Surname:  (aka last name and family name):  Hurtado
Mother's surname: Flores

Ana Echalar de Daza
First name:  Ana
Original surname:  Echalar
Husband's surname:  Daza


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## coconutpalm

Very interesting thread.
However, things are completely different in China. Our first name(姓xing4) is your last name and our last name(名ming2, not Christian name, of course) is your first name. A little bit confusing, isn't it? 
Another big difference, Chinese is made up of characters instead of letters. There're many two-character names, like mine, and it would be ridiculous to call someone by one character, whether it's last name or first name.
If people have three-character names (names that have a one-character 姓xing4. We have two-character 姓xing4 in Chinese, too, although much less), it's a way to show intimacy to call his/her 名ming2, so it's never possible for you to call someone older than or senior to you by his 名ming2. As for two-character names, we add 小xiao3 before the 名ming2 or repeat the 名ming2(莎莎,e.g.) or add 儿er after the 名ming2 if you're in the northern part, to name a few. 
In the workplace, the boss or older people have our unique way to show friendliness by adding 小xiao3 before the 姓xing4. However, it's a little bit old-fashioned (I always felt awkward when adressed as 小徐xiao3 xu2 on several rare occasions)and more populous in government and among older generations.
先生(xian1 sheng1, Mr.sir,) and 小姐(xiao3 jie3, Miss) are used in formal situation, and although 小姐implies a young woman/girl, it's better to call an older woman by this, too.

We have many other ways to to call a stranger except for 先生xian1 sheng1 and 小姐xiao3 jie3. 
阿姨a1 yi2(aunty)，叔叔shu1 shu1(uncle)，adressed by students(college students included even if above twenty), people under twenty-five to people from thirty-five to fifty, by people from twenty-five to thirty-five to people older than fifty or so. 大叔da4 shu1,大婶da4 shen3 in rural areas and old- fashioned.
爷爷ye2 ye2(grandpa),奶奶nai3 nai3(grandma), addressed to people older than sixty.
同学tong2 xu3(schoolmate) by students to students.
I hope I have include all!

From the addressing forms, it's clear that China is traditionally family- based, because we can call everybody like a relative. (the relations between同学tong2 xue2 in former times are very very important)


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## daoxunchang

coconutpalm said:


> In the workplace, the boss or older people have our unique way to show friendliness by adding 小xiao3 before the 姓xing4. However, it's a little bit old-fashioned (I always felt awkward when adressed as 小徐xiao3 xu2 on several rare occasions)and more populous in government and among older generations.


I hate being addressed like this. I think the use of this 小 before one's surname often implies a haughtiness of the user derived from age or working seniority.
Besides, it's not only used in workplace. Those who use this 小 in their workplace would call others who is old enough, say, a college student, by this, too. 



> 同学tong2 xu3(schoolmate) by students to students.


Also by one who assumes the person he's speaking to is at school age, esp. when they are on a campus or in a school. I've heard of many teachers who look like a student being addressed like this .

Besides, we often address others by putting a title which show the highest or most prestigious post he/she is holding or held (!) behind his/her surname.


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## itka

Thank you Chaska Nawi, it helps a lot !


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## Outsider

Chaska Ñawi said:


> Spanish:
> Eduardo Hurtado Flores
> First name:  Eduardo
> Surname:  (aka last name and family name):  Hurtado
> Mother's surname: Flores
> 
> Ana Echalar de Daza
> First name:  Ana
> Original surname:  Echalar
> Husband's surname:  Daza


And how would you decompose a name such as José María Alfredo Aznar López?


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## Macunaíma

Outsider said:


> And how would you decompose a name such as José María Alfredo Aznar López?


 
Not to mention the composed surnames (Portuguese ones aren't generally separated by a hyphen) which are regarded as ONE family name. In Brazil there are the _d'Orléans e Bragança_ (the descendants of the Brazilian imperial family), _Paes Leme_, _Caldeira Brant_, _Magalhães Couto_, _Lins de Albuquerque_, just to name a few. So, if you call a Sr. Henrique Lins de Albuquerque just Sr. Albuquerque, he will probably reply, a little bit irritated, that it is Sr. Lins de Albuquerque. But, anyway, although the fictional Mr. Lins de Albuquerque could be annoyed if you separated his surname, I think he would most probably think it OK if you just called him Sr. Henrique.


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## Outsider

I wasn't even thinking of such complicated "aristocrat" names. But most Portuguese names, and, I'm guessing, many Spanish names too, are composed of at least four words.


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## Nanon

Or *Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Crispín Crispiniano de la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz y Picasso* 

To avoid going off-topic, maybe we could use the terms given / family names. Thr first given name being the first name, of course. 
About patronymics, Etcetera explained it all in her post. They are used in Russian (and, I think, Bulgarian ). Maybe also in other languages.

To Etcetera: a funny thing happens with a Russian colleague of mine. I call him or refer to him as Alex in English. But I would never say anything else than Alexandr Ivanovich in Russian (because he is older and, yes, rather conservative). He just calls me Anna because as a foreigner I have no patronymic... (I do have a father, though).

I agree with Itka that one of the pet hates of the French is being told "bonjour Madame X, au revoir Monsieur Y". It goes against the French _étiquette _(only the title should be used). Sales people are taught to say this because the use of family names supposedly (!) creates the impression that the salesperson "remembers who you are".
It has some similarity with the irritating use of the first name in the US in the same context.


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## .   1

Outsider said:


> And how would you decompose a name such as José María Alfredo Aznar López?


On an old coffin.

.,,
Or maybe by considering José María Alfredo Aznar López to be the equivalent of Billy Bob Thornton-Cadwalleder*-*Jolie Junior.


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## meeryanah

In Croatia young people (high-school, for example) adress themself with surnames, because it's...cool 
so, our surnames become our nicknames, actually.


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## tvdxer

Jalc said:


> Just arriving in USA, I have a lot of contacts with people in shops or service providers by phone.
> They all present themselves by their first name. Should I do the same?
> 
> I noticed that when I present myself with first and last name, they will call me Mr. ... whereas I can only call them by their first name.
> 
> Is this a usual situation ?
> 
> Thanks



Yes, but I don't think it always has been.  As recently as when I was little and can still remember (early-mid 1990's) it seemed like it was more common than now to refer to non-intimate contacts by "Mr. / Ms. / Mrs. (last name)", but today the culture has become more and more informal and addressing others by their first name is the rule.  Simply to fit in I would give your first name.  It seems less clumsy, considering the current cultural climate, to say (for example) "My name is Jean" than "My name is Jean Francois-Rallye".


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## Nanon

To tvdxer: This is what I would do, in English (*), when introducing myself in a context like Jalc's. I would use my first name.
But when I am presented by someone else, I think sometimes they use my full name. I'm not 200% sure... so I will pay extra attention.


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## SwissPete

You need to "feel" the situation. If I called one of my physicians Arnold, he would probably tell me that his first name is "Doctor"! Another physician of mine, on the other hand, is perfectly happy to be called Allen.
I was once in a situation at work where I knew my boss socially. I called him by his first name in private, and by his last name at work.


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## Cheesee = Madness

In my school we have a mix. Most people, (Except for those in authority) go by their first names, but a few go by the last name if their first name is hard to pronounce or someone forgot it and used the last one and it stuck. Also, when talking about, but not to, those in authoriy we sometimes drop the Mr/Mrs. Ex. (Mr. Smith.) Smith yelled at a parked car today.


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## miguel64086

Outsider said:


> And how would you decompose a name such as José María Alfredo Aznar López?



I do too have 4 names.... Let´s say
Miguel Angel Perez Gonzalez*

I've never like the "First name", "middle name", and "lastname" thing since I don't have a middle name (four names don't have a middle one).  
The correct form should be, although too formal, is surname and family name...

When I moved to the US, people were too confused with my maternal "lastname", so at the end I just drop it.

To answer the original post... I think it depends a lot of the field where you work.  My field is technology, and everyone talks in a first name basis.  From Tech support to CEOs...  However, in other fields people tend to keep the formalies.  I'm addressed as "Miguel" but my wife gets addressed as "Dr. Perez".

Miguel


* Not my actual name


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## sokol

I have some business contacts in England and the Netherlands and further one in Spain, and all of those offered their first name at first contact even; the English and the Dutch didn't even care to introduce themselves with first name while the Spanish one (on the phone) actually _did _offer to call each other by first name, with the first call.

This is all in the books wholesales business, to give some context, and all conversations and emails were in English

In German it would be different of course; usually you'd use surnames in German.


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## shaloo

It's different in India.
In a formal conversation, For men or women, its mandatory that you add "ji" in Hindi and the vernacular equivalents (like "garu" in Telugu) at the end of their names.

Younger people prefer to be called by their first names, but its always considered warm & nice when people address you respectfully.
Eg: Geeta (female) - Geeta_*ji*_
SriRam Sharma - SriRam*ji *or Sharma*ji *(esp., if he's elder to you)


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## Lugubert

I find it hard to suppress a giggle when websites requiring registration offer the alternatives Mr/Mrs/Miss/*Dr*.

I refuse to give a title other than, if really necessary, Mr. (I have a couple of others to chose from.)

On the other hand, I'm sufficiently old to hesitate before automatic first name addressing. But there seems to exist a reverse trend nowadays: many young people in service professions now use the "honorific 3rd person You" (cf. Hindi Aap) instead of the 2nd person corresponding to "thou".


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