# المنفذ المهم



## Idris

Read this:

كارثة طبيعية بكل ما للكلمة من معنى، لكن كان يمكن تقليل نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها.. لو كانت جدة المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، *والمنفذ المهم*.. لو كانت غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، واختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض. ​ 
What meaning do the words in read convey? Somehow it doesn't make sense. Shouldn't في there be after لو كانت  ?


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## AndyRoo

والمنفذ المهم could be: "and the important gateway"

I think it does make sense.


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## Idris

What doesn't make sense to me is that when it says, "If Jeddah was..." If it was what?


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## AndyRoo

if Jeddah wasn't so bloated and disjointed in terms of its services, and lakes of wastewater hadn't mixed with torrentional water flows which had no way to get below ground.


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## Idris

Somehow I still don't understand this. It says, "If Jeddah wasn't such such such...", where in the original text does it say after that, "..then such such such wouldn't have happened."?


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## AndyRoo

It says it at the start:

A natural catastrophe in every meaning of the word .... but its catastophic effects and the damage could have been lessened if Jeddah, the leading economic city in our country,and the important gateway, wasn't so bloated and disjointed in terms of its services, and lakes of wastewater hadn't mixed with torrentional water flows which had no way to get below ground.


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## Idris

Shouldn't ما (or something like that) be used before اختلطت , like this:

وما اختلطت (أو لم تختلط) فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي


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## AndyRoo

Idris said:


> Shouldn't ما (or something like that) be used before اختلطت , like this:
> 
> وما اختلطت (أو لم تختلط) فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي


 
Yes I think you're right!


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## المعتصم

Hello all,
in this quote:


Idris said:


> Read this:
> 
> كارثة طبيعية بكل ما للكلمة من معنى، لكن كان يمكن تقليل نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها.. لو كانت جدة المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، والمنفذ المهم.. لو كانت غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، واختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض. ​


we see that the green sentence has extra information and we can remove it, and we also see that the red words are repeated.
sometimes we use that form in news things (writings, news, or so) i mean we sometimes put the verb and anything follows it at the beginning of the sentence -or clause- to emphasis the meaning, then when any extra information comes in the sentence, some writers repeat the verb.
as you see, لو means if, main clase is the blue words, and if clause is the underlined one.
here, the main confusing thing is that they should have put a hyphen before and after green sentence, without the comma.
I also found it hard to understand this text, because they mis-punctuated the text...




Idris said:


> Shouldn't ما (or something like that) be used before اختلطت , like this:
> 
> وما اختلطت (أو لم تختلط) فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي



I agree..


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## Idris

Or it should have been like this:

لو كانت جدة *--* المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، والمنفذ المهم *--* غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، *لما* اختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض.​ 
What do you think?


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## AndyRoo

Idris said:


> Or it should have been like this:
> 
> لو كانت جدة *--* المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، والمنفذ المهم *--* غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، *لما* اختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض.​
> What do you think?


 
I doubt this is the case - I think the لو كانت goes with كان يمكن تقليل نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها


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## المعتصم

Idris said:


> Or it should have been like this:
> 
> لو كانت جدة *--* المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، والمنفذ المهم *--* غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، *لما* اختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض.​
> What do you think?



not exactly the meaning, 
what you've made changed the meaning a little bit, we'd better say:
لكن كان يمكن تقليل نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها لو كانت جدة -المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا، والمنفذ المهم- غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، وما اختلطت/لم تختلط فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي مع سيول جارفة ليس لها طريق تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض

scratched thing is just extra info..
actually, the meaning is still a little bit confusing, could you give me the main article?
that will help in the meaning of the sentence.




AndyRoo said:


> I doubt this is the case - I think the لو كانت goes with كان يمكن تقليل نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها



I agree.


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## Idris

Here is the main article:

http://www.al-jazirah.com/87188/ar3d.htm


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## AndyRoo

Just a further thought;

Perhaps the original _is_ OK, if we translate:
لو كانت غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، واختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي 
as:

...if Jeddah wasn't so bloated and disjointed in terms of services, with lakes of waste water mixing etc...


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## Idris

AndyRoo said:


> Just a further thought;
> 
> Perhaps the original _is_ OK, if we translate:
> لو كانت غير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها، واختلطت فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي
> as:
> 
> ...if Jeddah wasn't so bloated and disjointed in terms of services, with lakes of waste water mixing etc...


 
Andy, the point is that there was difficulty understanding the sentence in terms of grammar. Even al-mu3tasem, who is a Palestinian, "also found it hard to understand this text". If this comes from an Arab what can we say for the others? The author could have made it easier to understand had he bothered to do that.


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## AndyRoo

Idris said:


> Andy, the point is that there was difficulty understanding the sentence in terms of grammar. Even al-mu3tasem, who is a Palestinian, "also found it hard to understand this text". If this comes from an Arab what can we say for the others? The author could have made it easier to understand had he bothered to do that.


 
Actually I was defending the author - I'm not so sure he's done a bad job here.


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## المعتصم

I said it was hard to understand, because I found something wrong in the sentence (punctuation and the repetition of verb are confusing) , I understood some at the first look, then all when I read it again.
OK, I think we made it a long story..
mistakes and no pre-knowledge about the text makes me a little bit confused and can't get the meaning from the first time.
don't worry, every one makes mistakes, so take it easy..
..


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## ayed

AndyRoo said:


> It says it at the start:
> 
> A natural catastrophe in every meaning of the word .... but its catastophic effects and the damage could have been lessened if Jeddah, the leading economic city in our country,and the important gateway, wasn't so bloated and disjointed in terms of its services, and lakes of wastewater hadn't mixed with torrentional water flows which had no way to get below ground.


In light of AndyRoo's, it would be:
_A natural catastrophe in every meaning of the word. However, the catastrophic effects and the damage could have been lessened if Jeddah were the leading economic city in our country, the important gateway, wasn't bloated and disjointed in terms of its services and sewage lakes hadn't mixed with the deluge which had no way to get below ground._
_-----------------------------------------_
The writer meant to say _:_
*(لقد كانت) كارثة طبيعية بكل ما تعنيه الكلمة من معنى.فلو كانت جدة المدينة الاقتصادية الأبرز في بلادنا والمنفذ المهم وغير مترهلة ومفككة في خدماتها ولم تختلط فيها بحيرات الصرف الصحي بالسيول الجارفة التي لم تجد طريقاً تسلكه إلى جوف الأرض لأمكن التقليل من نتائجها الكارثية وأضرارها. *​

Does it make sense, now?


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