# triptote, diptote (ممنوع من الصرف)



## Anatoli

Triptote or diptote - how do you tell?

I am interested in this question in general and specifically in the Arabic names.

Take مُحَمَّدٌ [muHammadun] and أَحْمَدُ [aHmadu]. The former is a triptote and the latter is a diptote. No difference in the written language except for the accusative forms, which become: مُحَمَّدًا [muHammadan] and أَحْمَدَ [aHmada]. The diptotes take no accusative markers and in spoken Arabic the final endings are not pronounced, perhaps sometimes in accusative.

There is probably no rule, I know most feminine names are diptotes (please correct me) but is there a pattern I could use or is there a method/link to find out whether a word or a name is a diptote? Dictionaries will cater for normal words, what about names? It seems very hard to find this info. Arabic Wikipedia doesn't show the vowelling, so you can't sometimes how to pronounce names of famous people.

Your help is appreciated.


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## WadiH

I would love to help, but as a non-linguist I would need to know what you mean by diptotes and triptotes.


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## Josh_

Diptote is ممنوع من الصرف .  

I'm tired now and should go to bed, but I will offer a quick response.  Arabic names have many categories.  You can check out my thread here for more information.  The names/proper nouns that are also ordinary words (adjectives, nouns) will decline like they normally would when used as a regular noun. محمد is just an adjective/verbal participle meaning 'highly praised' and thus will decline like an adjective.  أحمد is actually a conjugated verb (I praise) and as such it will not decline like a noun, so as far as the name goes it is diptote.  Other names that do not decline will most likely be proper nouns that have no relation to regular nouns.


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## WadiH

Josh Adkins said:


> Diptote is ممنوع من الصرف .


 
Thank you Josh, that's what I suspected.

In school we were taught categories of diptotes with examples. We recognize them while reading by analogizing to these categories. However, we had already acquired a "distate" for applying the "kasra" to these words through our Quranic education; if you never encounter "Ahmadi أحمدِ" for 12 years, it sounds awkward when you say it. I don't know of any other way to learn them then to memorize them.

The categories I can think of now are:

(1) nouns that are in the form of "fu3al" (all short vowels), such as عُمَر
(2) female nouns that end with "اء" or such as صحراء 
(3) female names that end with ـة such as فاطمة(the name doesn't have to be literally female, e.g. أسامة)
(4) any name ("3alam علم") of a foreign origin, such as بغداد، بيرس، إبراهيم، نيو يورك (Baghdad, Baybars, Ibrahim, New York)
(5) صيغة منتهى الجموع, i.e. plural forms that are of the form mafa3il, fawa3il, mafa3eel, and the like (e.g. مواطن، أماكن، سواعد،مناقب،زلازل، صواريخ، أقاويل) ... I don't know what these are called in English
(6) any name that is in the form ("wazn") of a verb such as يزيد، تغلب، شمّر، يعرب، ينبع، أحمد، قطر، حلب، أسعد
(7) nouns that end with "ان" such as ta3ban, 3othman, tho3ban (تعبان، عثمان، ثعبان، نعسان، غضبان)

It's never allowed to use a "tanween" with any of these categories. 

Also, whenever they are "majroorah", you must use a "fat7a" instead of a "kasra", unless the word is preceded by the definite article (e.g. من الزلازلِ، على الطاولةِ, etc.)

Hope that helps.


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## Anatoli

> (3) female nouns that end with "اء" or "ـة" such as صحراء and فاطمة


I need to analyse your response, guys but I think I disagree that words ending in "ـة" are all diptotes, although these words never take an accusative marker.  I agree about the hamza words.

The indefinite forms: sayyaarat*un* (N), sayyaarat*in* (G), sayyaarat*an* (A) are all spelled the same, except for the final tanwiin, whereas aHmadu (N) aHmada (G) aHmada (A) behave differently: in indefinite oblique (ie genitive or accusative) case they only have "a", never "i" and never end in "n".

I agree with some from your list but I need to analyse the rest.


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## WadiH

You're right, I just modified it.  Note the distinction between nouns (أسماء) and "names" (أعلام).

You might find this useful:
http://www.drmosad.com/index20.htm


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## Anatoli

Thanks Wadi but I can't read much Arabic yet. Maybe someone else will ind it useful.

Are the names السندباد and الهندباد diptotes? Do they behave like MuHammad_un_ or like AHmad_u_?

They both have the al- prefix, so they should be diptotes. Do the forms without al- exist?


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## Al-Indunisiy

Salamun 3alaykum,

I have a problem with diptotes.
How do you know that a noun is a diptote?
And are: 
Is 'shahr' in Al-Baqarah : 185 a diptote?
Is 'fatch' in the word 'Fatchu l-Baari' a diptote?


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## cherine

Wa 3alayka 's-salaam ya Indunisiy, and welcome to the forum 

Regarding your first question (who do you know that a noun is a diptote?) please check the posts of this thread to which I merged your post. I hope you'll find the information you need.

As for "shahr" it is not a diptote. If you ask because it's shahru and not shahrun, the answer is: because it's a part of an iDaafa structure. When a word is a muDaaf, it doesn't take tanwiin.

The same goes for the word fat7 فتح .


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## Al-Indunisiy

Are nouns of  wazn فعاعل also diptotes?


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## ajami

Assalaamoalaikum,

I assume that you know eiraab taqdeery.these eiraab bilhurrof --aif/wow/ya

they fall under this category whether they are present lafzan/taqdeeran.

as far as ghayr munsarif are concerned, i will try to answer quickly, from

memory, whatever's in my mind right now.


ghayr munsarif are only those nouns which are found with particular

formations like 1)ism 3lam if not more than trilitteral and sukoon on the

middle letter e.g noohun/noohan/noohin 3adun/3adan/3adin zaydun/zydan/

zydin ,LuTun /LuTan/LuTin if not fullfill this criteria then it will not get

tanween and jarr e.g fatimatu ayeshatu etc.

2) non arabic ism 3lam :-Ibrahimu/Ibrahima, isma3eelu/Isma3eela/thamudu/thamuda, fir3ownu/fir3owna.

3)The nouns on the scale of verb like Af3alu/yafalu---Ahmadu.yazidu.

4)the nouns with variations in the original or standard nouns like, from A'Amir

--- 3umaru, zafar zafir ----zufaru.

5)compound nouns : b3labakka, m3dykerb etc.

6)the nouns on the scale of F3Laanu ----uthhmaanu,salmaanu,s3daan,

hamdaanu etc.
7)the nouns on the scale of plurals of the plurals e.g فعالل فعاليل فواعل أفاعل أفاعيل مفاعل مفاعيل ---
balabilu,dananeeru, kawakibu,akabiru,ababeelu,,nawadiru,siyasyy,makati bu,masajidu,maqabiru,manabiru,marasilu,maraseelu,
hanajiru,fawa2du,rasaa-ilu,


I'm sorry for the transliteration... if I'll get some time later InshaALLAH then I will write in Arabic (it takes a very long time for me to cut and paste from online keyboards).

JzkALLAH khayr.


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## Serafín33

Al-Indunisiy said:


> Are nouns of  wazn فعاعل also  diptotes?


فعاعل? If you mean فواعل or فعالل plural nouns, the  answer is yes, like Wadi Hanifa said just above:


Wadi Hanifa said:


> (5) صيغة منتهى الجموع, i.e. plural forms that  are of the form mafa3il,  fawa3il, mafa3eel, and the like (e.g. مواطن،  أماكن، سواعد،مناقب،زلازل،  صواريخ، أقاويل) ...


This means that  all plurals with the patterns فَواعِل,‎ فَواعيل,‎ مَفاعِل,‎ فُعَلاء,‎  أَفْعِلاء,‎ فَعائِل,‎ أَفاعِل (like the plural of مكان makaan: أماكن  ’amaakin), فَواعيل; and فَعالِل and فَعاليل (for quadriliteral roots);  are all diptotes in the indefinite.



Wadi Hanifa said:


> The categories I can think of now are:
> 
> (1) nouns that are in the form of "fu3al" (all short vowels), such as عُمَر
> (2) female nouns that end with "اء" or such as صحراء
> (3) female names that end with ـة such as فاطمة(the name doesn't have to be literally female, e.g. أسامة)
> (4) any name ("3alam علم") of a foreign origin, such as بغداد، بيرس، إبراهيم، نيو يورك (Baghdad, Baybars, Ibrahim, New York)
> (5) صيغة منتهى الجموع, i.e. plural forms that are of the form mafa3il, fawa3il, mafa3eel, and the like (e.g. مواطن، أماكن، سواعد،مناقب،زلازل، صواريخ، أقاويل) ... I don't know what these are called in English
> (6) any name that is in the form ("wazn") of a verb such as يزيد، تغلب، شمّر، يعرب، ينبع، أحمد، قطر، حلب، أسعد
> (7) nouns that end with "ان" such as ta3ban, 3othman, tho3ban (تعبان، عثمان، ثعبان، نعسان، غضبان)


Others that I'd like to add are:
(8) adjectives in the comparative form: أَفْعَل
‎(9) a few masculine names e.g. سليمان Sulaymaan and إبراهيم Ibrahiim (!)



			
				Wadi Hanifa said:
			
		

> (3) female names that end with ـة such as فاطمة (the name doesn't have to  be literally female, e.g. أسامة)‎


Also some other female names like زينب Zaynab, عفاف ‘Afāf and مريم Maryam.


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## Serafín33

I have a new question:


> (2) female nouns that end with "اء" or such as صحراء


All this time I've been thinking that all أسماء ending in ــاء were diptote. As you mentioned that it's for female nouns, then what about *masculine *words that end in ــاء? The ones where the ء comes from a ي or و final root, and not as part of a  feminine suffix, like غِناء ("song", from root غ-ن-ي) and كساء ("clothes", from root ك-س-و)... Do they fully decline as غناءٌ,‎ غناءً, etc.?


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## Al-Indunisiy

Neqitan said:


> فعاعل? If you mean فواعل or فعالل plural nouns, the answer is yes,


 
I asked this based on AndyRoo's post in my thread.



> Originally Posted by *elroy*
> 
> 
> Why ضرائبَ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's because ضرائب is a diptote, so doesn't take tanwiin and the genitive takes fatHa.
Click to expand...

 
It seems -at least to me- that the pattern is not of any wazn listed above except فعاعل.


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## clevermizo

Al-Indunisiy said:


> It seems -at least to me- that the pattern is not of any wazn listed above except فعاعل.



The root is ض ر ب so the pattern is فعائل. The letters ف ع ل represent root consonants, so if you write فعاعل it appears as though there are four root consonants or that the middle consonant is doubled.


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## Al-Indunisiy

Oh right, thank you. It was a typo.


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## WadiH

Neqitan said:


> ‎(9) a few masculine names e.g. سليمان Sulaymaan and إبراهيم Ibrahiim (!)


 
These, along with مريم, fall under my category (4) (foreign nouns)


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## Serafín33

Oh, I see. They are borrowings from Hebrew or Aramaic then.

May you answer my question above as well?


Neqitan said:


> I have a new question:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) female nouns that end with "اء" or such as صحراء
> 
> 
> 
> All this time I've been thinking that all أسماء ending in ــاء were  diptote. As you mentioned that it's for female nouns, then what about *masculine *words that end in ــاء? The ones  where the ء comes from a ي or و final root, and not as part of a   feminine suffix, like غِناء ("song", from root غ-ن-ي) and كساء  ("clothes", from root ك-س-و)... Do they fully decline as غناءٌ,‎ غناءً,  etc.?
Click to expand...


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## cherine

Hi,
The diptote female nouns ending with اء  are those following the pattern/wazn فَعْلاء and not just any noun ending with اء , this is why غناء is a triptote and صحراء، صفراء، خضراء، حمراء، شهباء ... are all أسماء ممنوعة من الصرف .


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## Serafín33

Thank you very much!


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## cherine

You're welcome.


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## Scoobydoo1

Please, read these 2 sentences:

هم يُحِبُّ دائماً أنْ يُعَرِّفُني على أَصْدِقاءَ جُدُدٍ

أعيشُ مَعَ جيرانٍ لُطَفاءَ

I don't understand why these words are بالفتح (with ءَ) despite of بالكسر (with ءِ) and why there isn't تنوين 
( ءً , ءٍ ).

Thanks!


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## rayloom

Yes they are ممنوعة من الصرف.
Thus, they are diptotal (when indefinite), they don't take a kasra, instead it's always a fatHa in the genitive, and are never nunated.


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## Scoobydoo1

Thank you too much, by the way, could you post some rules like this or tell me where I could find them in Wright, for ex.


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## lukebeadgcf

See Wright, Volume 1, Pages 234-247 or §308-312

There are also several threads that address this topic. Search "diptote" or ممنوع من الصرف in the search box to find them.

Hope that helps.


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## Ustaath

for those of you who can read Arabic script, a concise, reader friendly link I found helpful was:

http://www.reefnet.gov.sy/education/kafaf/Bohoth/MamnoMenaSarf.htm


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## sirr

Hi everyone!

I've been taught that diptote words are only diptote as long as they are _indefinite,_ but as soon as they become definite they become triptote. So I know this rule applies to diptote words becoming definite by the definite article "أل", but does it also apply to diptote words becoming definite with a possessive pronouns?

For instance; this line is from Nizar Qabbani's قارئة الفنجان: 
من حاول فك ضفائرها 

Ok so since ضفائر is diptote, I would guess it takes the accusative here, but does the pronoun ها make it definite so it becomes triptote, and therefore takes the genitive case?

Thank you in advance!


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## clevermizo

It is definite, so it is _ḍafā'ir*i*ha_, so you are correct and it is majrūr مجرور ("genitive") in this case.


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## sirr

ok great, thanks clevermizo!


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## Lovelightpeace

Are ALL feminine proper nouns diptotes or only most are?


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## Abu Talha

Hello Lovelightpeace,

From this site: http://www.drmosad.com/index20.htm

I note that feminine proper names are ممنوع من الصرف if they end with التاء المربوطة OR if they exceed three letters OR if they are of non-Arabic origin. This includes male names that end with التاء المربوطة.

If the name has three letters AND does not end with التاء المربوطة AND is of Arabic origin then:
If the middle radical has sukoon, then it is preferred to decline it as a triptote, but it is allowed to treat it as a diptote. Example: هِنْدٌ, هِنْدًا, هِنْدٍ
If the middle radical does not have sukoon, then it must be a diptote. Example: أمَلُ, أمَلَ.
مصر as the name for Egypt, apparently, is a special case as it is of non-Arabic origin but may be a diptote or triptote.


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## cherine

daee said:


> مصر as the name for Egypt, apparently, is a special case as it is of non-Arabic origin but may be a diptote or triptote.


مصر as a name (of Egypt or a man) is a ممنوع من الصرف. Check the Qur'an:
سورة يونس - آية 87، سورة يوسف - آية 21، 99، سورة الزخرف 51.

But when it's used with the meaning of country, it's a triptote:
Like اهبطوا مصرًا (check verse 61 from سورة البقرة)


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## clevermizo

cherine said:


> مصر as a name (of Egypt or a man) is a triptote. Check the Qur'an:
> سورة يونس - آية 87، سورة يوسف - آية 21، 99، سورة الزخرف 51.



I think you mean diptote here and triptote below. "Diptote" is ممنوع من الصرف. 



> But when it's used with the meaning of country, it's a diptote:
> Like اهبطوا مصرًا (check verse 61 from سورة البقرة)


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## raful

Hello
Does the phrase  بيت المقدس behave like بيت لحم or بعلبك meaning, ممنوع من الصرف ?


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## barkoosh

No. بيت المقدس is إضافة while بيت لحم and بعلبك are تركيب مزجي.


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi guys,

I know that الجواسيس is ممنوع من الصرف is is correct then to say:
قبض الشُرْطِيُّ الجواسيسُ

Or do we say قبض الشُرْطِيُّ الجواسيسَ 
Thanks in advance

Aurélien


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## cherine

The ممنوع من الصرف becomes a triptote when it's preceded by the definite article. So the words can take a kasra. But the verb قبض takes a preposition:  قبض الشرطيُّ على الجواسيسِ .

And I suggest you read the existing posts carefully so as to not miss any useful information. See Wadi Hanifa's post #4:


Wadi Hanifa said:


> whenever they are "majroorah", you must use a "fat7a" instead of a "kasra", unless the word is preceded by the definite article (e.g. من الزلازلِ، على الطاولةِ, etc.)


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## aurelien.demarest

Thanks Cherine, so based on what you said is this correct:

ذهب جواسيسٌ إلى مكتبهم
رأى جواسيسَ عندما ذهب إلى بغدادَ
قابل مع جواسيسَ عندما ذهب إلى بغدادَ

ذهب الجواسيسُ إلى مكتبهم
رأى الجواسيسَ عندما ذهب إلى بغدادَ
قابل مع الجواسيسِ عندما ذهب إلى بغدادَ


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## Ibn Nacer

aurelien.demarest said:


> Thanks Cherine, so based on what you said is this correct:
> 
> ذهب جواسيسٌ إلى مكتبهم


Les diptotes ne prennent pas de tanwîn...


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## aurelien.demarest

Ibn Nacer said:


> Les diptotes ne prennent pas de tanwîn...


ah pardon je ne savais pas... merci


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## Ibn Nacer

De rien...

PS: Tu n'as pas à t’excuser, il n'y a pas de mal, on est là pour apprendre...


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Hello, everyone. How are you doing?
I needed your help as regards an exercise of the book I'm using to practise Arabic.
The exercise included normal adjectives (a.k.a. triptotes?), colour adjectives (diptotes?). 
I'm a little bit confused on how to use adjectives because sometimes, it looks, you can use accusative case in a, sometimes with an or even in... Is there anything to take into account when learning these nouns?
An example of what I mean is the following:

وضعت الكتب في خزائنَ بيضاءَ (Wad7atu al kutub fi khizaina baida7a)

Does "ishtaraitu finjaanan axdara" mean "I bought a green cup"? 

Help!
Thank you,

Nahuel


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## elroy

Nahuel O Tavros said:


> normal adjectives (a.k.a. triptotes?)


 Yes, "normal" adjectives and nouns are triptotes. 


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> colour adjectives (diptotes?)


 Color adjectives are one category of diptotes.  There are many others. 


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> sometimes, it looks, you can use accusative case in a, sometimes with an or even in


 Yes, this is correct.

In the accusative case, "ordinary" nouns take "a" if they're definite and "an" if they're indefinite, and sound feminine plural nouns take "in" if they're indefinite. 


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> Is there anything to take into account when learning these nouns?


 I'm not sure what you mean; what nouns? 


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> An example of what I mean is the following:
> 
> وضعت الكتب في خزائنَ بيضاءَ (Waḍa3tu~l-kutub(a) fī khazā'ina baiḍā'a)


 This sentence is correct (but note the corrections to the pronunciation), but I'm sure what it is supposed to be an example _of_.  


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> Does "ishtaraitu finjaanan axḍara" mean "I bought a green cup"?


 Yes.


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Thank you, Elroy. I apreciate your help very much...
What about diptotes? What are they?
They have two declensions? Or something like that?


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## elroy

Have you read through this thread?


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## Nahuel O Tavros

I try to. But people generally write in very difficult terms... So I'll do my best.


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## elroy

The following, from an earlier post, uses fairly straightforward and simple language:


Wadi Hanifa said:


> It's never allowed to use a "tanween" with any of these categories.
> 
> Also, whenever they are "majroorah", you must use a "fat7a" instead of a "kasra", unless the word is preceded by the definite article (e.g. من الزلازلِ، على الطاولةِ, etc.)


 If anything in particular is unclear, please feel free to ask.


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## Saley

Wadi Hanifa said:


> whenever they are "majroorah", you must use a "fat7a" instead of a "kasra", *unless the word is preceded by the definite article*


This statement is not accurate. For example, in في أفضلِ شكلٍ ممكنٍ ‘in the best way possible’ the superlative adjective أفضل (even though it isn’t preceded by the article) ends in _-i_ because it’s a مضاف.

What’s important is that the notion of diptosy is applicable only to (morphologically) *indefinite* nouns and adjectives. Non-indefinite words — i.e. defined in any way or unspecified for (in)definiteness — don’t show a triptote/diptote contrast.


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## Nahuel O Tavros

Can you paraphrase your last paragraph a little bit? It's difficult to understand you...


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## Matat

Saley said:


> What’s important is that the notion of diptosy is applicable only to (morphologically) *indefinite* nouns and adjectives. Non-indefinite words — i.e. defined in any way or unspecified for (in)definiteness — don’t show a triptote/diptote contrast.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Many proper names like عمر are definite by definition and are diptotes.


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## Saley

Matat said:


> Many proper names like عمر are definite by definition and are diptotes.


Proper names such as triptote محمدٌ (gen. محمدٍ, acc. محمدًا) and diptote عمرُ (gen. = acc. عمرَ) are morphologically indefinite, i.e. they are declined like indefinite common nouns or adjectives such as triptote يدٌ (gen. يدٍ, acc. يدًا) and diptote أحمرُ (gen. = acc. أحمرَ), although these proper names are definite semantically (in terms of meaning) and syntactically (in terms of agreement).


Nahuel O Tavros said:


> Can you paraphrase your last paragraph a little bit? It's difficult to understand you...


I mean that two words (e.g. غلامٌ and أصدقاءُ) that contrast in declension in some situations (what I called indefinite) don’t contrast in others (what I called non-indefinite). These latter situations are not restricted only to having the article in front of the noun; nouns can be definite without an article, e.g. يا غلامُ and يا أصدقاءُ (vocative) or غلامُك and أصدقاؤك (construct state). I consider nouns in the مضاف position neither definite nor indefinite, so I mentioned unspecifiedness.


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## Saley

Kims Colledge said:


> I know that عرفات is a proper noun because it's the name of a place, just like مكة or بغداد. So, why is it not decline like a proper feminine noun?


That’s because عرفات is considered a plural noun (with sound feminine suffix _-āt_), so it declines accordingly. Unlike singular or broken plural nouns, sound plural nouns don’t have triptote/diptote distinction when morphologically indefinite, so only _-āt-un_ (nom.) and _-āt-in_ (gen. = acc.) are possible.


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## HotIcyDonut

Wadi Hanifa said:


> (7) nouns that end with "ان" such as ta3ban, 3othman, tho3ban (تعبان، عثمان، ثعبان، نعسان، غضبان)


But words like طيران or حيوان or فرسان or شجعان are regularly triptotic.

Also, aren't عثمان and ثعبان triptotic too? In my dictionary, they are marked as triptotes.

As for تعبان، نعسان، غضبان, yeah, those seem diptotic.

I think the case of -an needs to be remembered on case-by-case basis, or there's some pattern?



Wadi Hanifa said:


> (2) female nouns that end with "اء" or such as صحراء


I think, broken plurals, too: شعراء, شهداء, etc.


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## WadiH

HotIcyDonut said:


> But words like طيران or حيوان or فرسان or شجعان are regularly triptotic.
> 
> Also, aren't عثمان and ثعبان triptotic too? In my dictionary, they are marked as triptotes.
> 
> As for تعبان، نعسان، غضبان, yeah, those seem diptotic.
> 
> I think the case of -an needs to be remembered on case-by-case basis, or there's some pattern?



You're right, that statement was too broad.  فرسان and شجعان are plurals of the pattern _fu3laan_, so they don't fall under this rule.  Neither do nouns on the pattern _fa3alaan _like غليان, ثوران, حيوان, دوران, طيران, etc.

A more specific statement of the rule is the following:

العلم المزيد بألف ونون مزيدتين مثل: شعبان، رمضان.<<< this covers عثمان​​الصفة المختومة بألف ونون زائدتين مثل: سهران، عطشان. <<< this covers تعبان, نعسان and غضبان​
Turns out ثعبان is triptotic (it does not fall under either of these two categories).

Source:
الممنوع من الصرف - ديوان العرب



> I think, broken plurals, too: شعراء, شهداء, etc.



Yes if they end with اء (the pattern _fu3alaa'_).


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## Ali Smith

In the name سلمان why is there no tanwin? Like in سَلْمانُ الفارِسِيّ.

One reason seems to be عَلَمِيَّة. What's the second reason?


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## Mahaodeh

Ali Smith said:


> One reason seems to be عَلَمِيَّة. What's the second reason?


العلمية alone does not make the noun ممنوع من الصرف. This is like عثمان:


WadiH said:


> العلم المزيد بألف ونون مزيدتين مثل: شعبان، رمضان


It’s both عَلَم AND ends with ألف ونون.


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## Ali Smith

But حَسَّان ends with ألف ونون, too! It's not ممنوع من الصرف, is it?


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## Mahaodeh

Sorry, I should have been clearer: it’s both علم AND ends with ألف ونون *زائدتين*.

The نون in حسّان is original in the root.


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## 𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉

Depends on what his parents had in mind when naming him. If they derived his name from حسن then it's not mamnoo min as sarf. If they derived it from حسس then it is.


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## Mahaodeh

His parents probably had in mind صيغة فعّال من حسن not صيغة فعلان من حسّ as the latter is not really used even as an adjective.


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## Ali Smith

Mahaodeh said:


> His parents probably had in mind صيغة فعّال من حسن not صيغة فعلان من حسّ as the latter is not really used even as an adjective.


Both are possible though, right? The former would mean “very good” while the latter means “very sensitive”.


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## Mahaodeh

I don’t know about that.

For one, the verb حَسّ means to feel not to be sensitive. Also, فعلان is صفة مشبهة not صيغة مبالغة, hence even if the verb means to be sensitive فعلان does not mean “very sensitive”. But most importantly the for is derived from an intransitive verb while حَسّ is transitive.

The best would be that it is derived as a proper noun like حمدان ورغدان وشعبان, but what would that mean? I highly doubt it.

So while technically, if it were derived from حسّ it would be حسّان but realistically I can’t envision a case where it is.


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