# Termini che hanno una traduzione diversa in American English e in British English - PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!



## Paulfromitaly

london calling said:


> I confirm _Alice band_ in BE. Bt I might say _hairband_ as well...



Would you also say headband or is that something different to you?


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## CPA

*Termine in italiano: *succhiotto, ciuccio
*Termine in AmE: *pacifier
*Termine in BrE: *dummy


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> Would you also say headband or is that something different to you?


A head band is one of those sweat bands that tennis players wear.


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> A head band is one of those sweat bands that tennis players wear.



Got it - I wouldn't call it cerchietto then.
Do you say both Alice band and hairband?


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> Do you say both Alice band and hairband?



I'd call it a hairband, unless it's one of those wide plastic ones, which I'd call an Alice band.

Ed: Footballers wear hairbands, not Alice bands. I remember several entertaining conversations with an Italian guy who insisted what he was wearing was a "fascia" not a "cerchietto". We were like, dude, that thing is a "hairband"


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## wildan1

Tegs said:


> A head band is one of those sweat bands that tennis players wear.


In AE that is _a sweatband_. _A headband_ in AE is something a woman or girl puts over the top of her head to hold her hair back. I have never heard of an Alice or hair band; I don't think we use those in AE.


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## Tegs

wildan1 said:


> In AE that is _a sweatband_.



Yes, that's a synonym we use too.


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## curiosone

wildan1 said:


> In AE that is _a sweatband_. _A headband_ in AE is something a woman or girl puts over the top of her head to hold her hair back. I have never heard of an Alice or hair band; I don't think we use those in AE.



I agree with Tegs that _sweatband _and _headband _are synonyms.  I am not familiar with _headband being _used to mean _hairband _and I am also an AE native, so I guess _headband _may be used colloquially in this sense - though I'm surprised it would be used that way in the DC/Virginia area, as my own colloquial Kentucky idiom is usually similar.

I've always heard "hairband" to mean those "cerchietti" (semi-circles of flexible plastic used to hold back one's hair).
I wasn't familiar with the term _alice band _at all, so agree it's BE.

Without any wish to "split hairs"  I checked the definitions of these 4 words in Merriam-Webster, Oxford dictionary, and my favorite Collins (hardback).  Both Merriam-Webster and Collins don't even HAVE "hairband" or "alice band" listed.  Both these dictionaries (one mostly AE, the other mostly BE) define "headband" as: a band worn on or around the head (with a 2nd definition referring to books).  All 3 dictionaries define _sweatband _similarly (in agreement with your definition).  

Oxford dictionary lists all 4 terms , with these definitions (relative to headgear - not books):
1) headband: a band of fabric worn around the head as a decoration or to keep the hair or perspiration off the face.   
2) hairband: a band for securing or tying back one’s hair.
3) alice band: a flexible band worn by women and girls to hold back the hair   [_origin:  Alice in Wonderland]_
4) sweatband: (1) a band of absorbent material worn around the head or wrist to soak up sweat, especially by participants in sports. (2) a band of absorbent material lining a hat.


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## Paulfromitaly

*Termine in italiano: *bicarbonato di sodio
*Termine in AmE: *baking soda
*Termine in BrE: *bicarbonate of soda

*Termine in italiano: *cioccolato fondente
*Termine in AmE: *dark chocolate
*Termine in BrE: *plain chocolate

*Termine in italiano: *melassa
*Termine in AmE: *molasses
*Termine in BrE: *molasses / treacle

*Termine in italiano: *olio di semi di arachidi
*Termine in AmE: *peanut oil
*Termine in BrE: *groundnut oil

*Termine in italiano: *prosciutto affumicato
*Termine in AmE: *ham
*Termine in BrE: *gammon


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *cioccolato fondente
> *Termine in AmE: *dark chocolate
> *Termine in BrE: *plain chocolate  We call this "dark chocolate"


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## wildan1

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *bicarbonato di sodio
> *Termine in AmE: *baking soda -- this term is only for cooking or cleaning; for medicinal purposes it is called _bicarbonate of soda_ however
> *Termine in BrE: *bicarbonate of soda
> 
> 
> *Termine in italiano: *prosciutto affumicato
> *Termine in AmE: *ham -- AE _ham_ is the general word for the leg meat of a pig no matter how prepared; but smoked or air-dried ham is called _"prosciutto" _in AE -- we also have a kind of local version of this known here as _"country ham"._
> *Termine in BrE: *gammon


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## sound shift

Are we talking at post 61 about chocolate that contains no milk? I call that "plain chocolate" in my BrE.


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## Paulfromitaly

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *cioccolato fondente
> *Termine in AmE: *dark chocolate
> *Termine in BrE: *plain chocolate  We call this "dark chocolate"



What do you call "plain chocolate" then? 


sound shift said:


> Are we talking at post 61 about chocolate  that contains no milk? I call that "plain chocolate" in my BrE.


Yes, cioccolato fondente is chocolate with no milk.



Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *prosciutto affumicato
> *Termine in AmE: *ham -- AE _ham_ is the general word for the leg meat of a pig no matter how prepared; but smoked or air-dried ham is called _"prosciutto" _in AE -- we also have a kind of local version of this known here as _"country ham"._
> *Termine in BrE: *gammon



So, given this definition of gammon :_meat taken from the back leg or side of a pig and preserved with smoke or salt_

What would you call that in AmE? Just prosciutto?


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## Tegs

I thought the "ham" entry might prove problematic  Here we have ham, prosciutto or Parma ham and gammon. I'm not sure which the Italian "prosciuto affumicato" refers to (I can't find any useful photos of it), but "gammon" is something you have to cook at home whereas the others are all cooked already when you buy them.


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> I thought the "ham" entry might prove problematic  Here we have ham, prosciutto or Parma ham and gammon. I'm not sure which the Italian "prosciuto affumicato" refers to (I can't find any useful photos of it), but "gammon" is something you have to cook at home whereas the others are all cooked already when you buy them.


*
Prosciutto cotto affumicato (pic)
*
It's smoked prosciutto cotto, not Parma ham (that we call "crudo")


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## MR1492

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *alimenti (somma di denaro)
> *Termine in AmE: *alimony
> *Termine in BrE: *maintenance?
> 
> Am I correct in assuming that alimony and child support are 2 different concepts in AmE?



Yes, they are separate things in AE as well.


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> What do you call "plain chocolate" then?



Urm, I don't use the term "plain chocolate" for anything. I call chocolate that has around 70% cocoa "dark chocolate". The milkier ones I call "milk chocolate". I didn't even know the term "plain chocolate" existed. 

BBC calls it dark chocolate here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19241924

BBC "dark chocolate recipes": http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/dark_chocolate (although in the article is also uses "plain")

I think if you want to keep the chocolate entry, you should add "dark chocolate" as a BE synonym.



Paulfromitaly said:


> *
> Prosciutto cotto affumicato (pic)
> *
> It's smoked prosciutto cotto, not Parma ham (that we call "crudo")



That looks like ham to me


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> That looks like ham to me



So what's gammon to you?


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> So what's gammon to you?



Raw pig meat. It often comes very thickly-sliced. 

"The main difference between gammon and ham is that gammon will be sold  raw and needs to be cooked; ham is sold cooked or dry-cured and ready  for eating. Once gammon is cooked it can be called a ham and may be sold  as a gammon ham." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/gammon)


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> Raw pig meat. It often comes very thickly-sliced.
> 
> "The main difference between gammon and ham is that gammon will be sold  raw and needs to be cooked; ham is sold cooked or dry-cured and ready  for eating. Once gammon is cooked it can be called a ham and may be sold  as a gammon ham." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/gammon)



Right, then prosciutto affumicato can't be gammon as it's cooked, not raw.


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## Einstein

Tegs said:


> Urm, I don't use the term "plain chocolate" for anything. I call chocolate that has around 70% cocoa "dark chocolate". The milkier ones I call "milk chocolate". I didn't even know the term "plain chocolate" existed.
> 
> BBC calls it dark chocolate here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19241924
> BBC "dark chocolate recipes": http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/dark_chocolate (although in the article is also uses "plain")
> 
> I think if you want to keep the chocolate entry, you should add "dark chocolate" as a BE synonym.


Definitely "plain chocolate" when I lived in GB, but that was 35 years ago so it might well have changed.


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## Tegs

Ok, dump the gammon entry then  As for plain/dark chocolate, this may well be a more recent change. Before this thread if someone had said to me they liked "plain chocolate" I would have thought they meant they like chocolate with nothing fancy about it - i.e. no fillings or biscuit or caramel etc, just a plain old bar of chocolate with nothing added.


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## sound shift

I suspect the presence of marketing here. Marketing types evidently dislike terms that could be seen as unglamorous - such "bottom of the range" (which has been replaced by "entry-level") and "plain".


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## london calling

Paulfromitaly said:


> Right, then prosciutto affumicato can't be gammon as it's cooked, not raw.


I agree with you.

_Prosciutto affumicato_ is smoked ham, not gammon (che non trovo qui: lo compro a Londra e me lo porto !)..


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## curiosone

> *Termine in italiano: prosciutto affumicato
> Termine in AmE: ham -- AE ham is the general word for the leg meat of a pig no matter how prepared; but smoked or air-dried ham is called "prosciutto" in AE -- we also have a kind of local version of this known here as "country ham".
> Termine in BrE: gammon*



At the risk of being accused of "hamming" it up , while I'll leave it to the BE speakers to remove "gammon" and replace it with ham,  I think (in AE) we'd better be careful about distinguishing between "cooked ham" and "ham that requires cooking".  True it's all called ham, BUT "country ham" isn't the same thing as "prosciutto cotto" or "prosciutto affumicato."  Here's a handy link I found, explaining how "ham" is made in different countries (including Italy, the UK, and the U.S.):  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham

"Prosciutto" or "Parma ham" (I've heard it called both ways in the States) is "crudo"/uncooked, and is "dry-cured" (salted, gradually pressed while left to hang for a couple of months, then washed several times, and dried - not smoked).  It does not require further cooking. 

"Prosciutto cotto" is what we call "ham" or "smoked ham" (I've seen it smoked with different kinds of wood, in Virginia supermarkets), and doesn't require further cooking (though in the States we often glaze it).  

"Country ham" (which we call "Kentucky ham" in my parts, and which is similar to "Virginia ham" but not identical) is salt-cured, often smoked, and then aged. But it isn't fully cooked.  The salt is not removed before hanging it, and it usually requires soaking to remove some of the salt (it's very salty anyway), before cooking. Here are a couple of links talking about how it's made, for anyone interested: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-kentucky-ham.htm  or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_ham


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## Tegs

It's a smoky business alright 

So as to avoid making a pig's ear of the whole ham question, I vote we just bin that entry. It sounds like all types of English call hams "hams", and then that is further qualified with another word, like smoked.


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## Paulfromitaly

*Termine in italiano: *scarpe di tela (*photo*)
*Termine in AmE: *canvas shoes
*Termine in BrE: *pumps


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## AshleySarah

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *scarpe di tela (*photo*)
> *Termine in AmE: *canvas shoes
> *Termine in BrE: *pumps ??  Runners/trainers/gym shoes


 

I've never heard of "pumps" being used in the UK to refer to sports shoes.


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## wildan1

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *scarpe di tela (*photo*)
> *Termine in AmE: *canvas shoes
> *Termine in BrE: *pumps


Those shoes are made from canvas, traditionally, but _"canvas shoes"_ is a description one might read only in an administrative document (e.g. customs document).

AE for this is _tennis shoes_ or, more casually, _sneakers.

_(AE_ pumps _describe women's high-heel shoes)


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## Teerex51

*Termine in italiano: *scambio di carreggiata (per lavori)*
Termine in AmE: *lane switch*
Termine in BrE: *contraflow

_*The term _contraflow_ in the USA mainly describes lane reversals for hurricane evacuation._


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## wildan1

Teerex51 said:


> *Termine in italiano: *scambio di carreggiata (per lavori)*
> Termine in AmE: *lane switch*
> Termine in BrE: *contraflow
> 
> _*The term _contraflow_ in the USA mainly describes lane reversals for hurricane evacuation._


*Perhaps in a technical context, but the usual term for this in everyday speech is _lane reversal_ -- during rush hour, for example. 
_
Lane switch _describes going from one lane to the other (in the same direction), as when one passes another car.


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## Paulfromitaly

AshleySarah said:


> I've never heard of "pumps" being used in the UK to refer to sports shoes.



I've heard a couple of people call flat comfortable shoes "pumps"



> http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/pump_1
> [countable usually plural]
> a)*                            British English *a flat light shoe for dancing, exercise, sport etc
> b) *                            American English*                            a woman's plain shoe with no                                    laces,                                    buckles                                 etc:
> a pair of leather pumps
> 
> http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pump--2
> *noun*
> 
> 
> 
> a light shoe, in particular:
> chiefly _Northern English_ a sports shoe; a plimsoll.
> _British_ a light shoe for dancing.
> _North American_ a court shoe.



Not just any kind of tennis shoes, but this specific kind of flat tennis shoes

http://www.sportsmart.*co.uk*/1j794-converse-all-star-ox-low-canvas-pumps-trainers-shoes-greywhite-size.html
http://www.kaleidoscope.*co.uk*/products/Stripe-Canvas-Pumps/_/A-18W226_3


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## Teerex51

wildan1 said:


> _
> Lane switch _describes going from one lane to the other (in the same direction), as when one passes another car.



Not only that, it appears. I expressly mentioned "per lavori" in the Italian original the AmE and BrE terms are supposed to translate. (I'm not referring to lane reversals/contraflow measures adopted during rush hour, nor - for obvious reasons - to hurricane evacuations.)


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## wildan1

Teerex51 said:


> Not only that, it appears. I expressly mentioned "per lavori" in the Italian original the AmE and BrE terms are supposed to translate. (I'm not referring to lane reversals/contraflow measures adopted during rush hour, nor - for obvious reasons - to hurricane evacuations.)


OK, now I see your source--that is from Caltrans (the California State department of transportation, which is probably larger than all of Italy's similar ministry).

Getting traffic vocabulary correct in the US requires checking the official terms of 50 states that each have their own direct jurisdiction (and preferred vocabulary) over highway and transpiration within the specific state. We are a federation just as the EU--each jurisdiction decides how it organizes such things pretty independently.

I think getting your glossary down to this level of differentiation is probably… not worth it!


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## Teerex51

The purpose of this exercise is to list: _"Termini [italiani] che hanno una traduzione diversa in American English e in British English".
_
In keeping with this brief, we can add "lane reversal" to "lane switch". Or did you have other suggestions to make?

*Termine in italiano: *scambio di carreggiata (per lavori)*
Termine in AmE: *lane switch, lane reversal*
Termine in BrE: *contraflow



			
				wildan1 said:
			
		

> have their own direct jurisdiction (and preferred vocabulary) over highway and transpiration



PS: What's _transpiration_?


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> I've heard a couple of people call flat comfortable shoes "pumps"



I agree with Ashley Sarah on this - I wouldn't call the shoes in your photo "pumps". I would call them tennis shoes (it appears that's what they are in AE as well, from WildDan's post).

If you went into a shop here and asked for pumps, you would be pointed to the range of smart and casual flat shoes for women, which are not sports shoes. Most types of pumps slip onto your foot with no laces (although some do have laces). They can also be called "flats" or "ballerina pumps".

These are"pumps": http://www.dune.co.uk/flats-ballerinas-dept3104_pg1/

Your photo would fit into the "trainer" category of the same website: http://www.dune.co.uk/trainers-dept3107_pg1/


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> I agree with Ashley Sarah on this - I wouldn't call the shoes in your photo "pumps". I would call them tennis shoes (it appears that's what they are in AE as well, from WildDan's post).
> 
> If you went into a shop here and asked for pumps, you would be pointed to the range of smart and casual flat shoes for women, which are not sports shoes. Most types of pumps slip onto your foot with no laces (although some do have laces). They can also be called "flats" or "ballerina pumps".
> 
> These are"pumps": http://www.dune.co.uk/flats-ballerinas-dept3104_pg1/
> 
> Your photo would fit into the "trainer" category of the same website: http://www.dune.co.uk/trainers-dept3107_pg1/



Well yes, those shoes in the photo you linked are, to me, "flat comfortable shoes" 
My question is: since AmE speakers call "pumps" a totally different kind of women's shoes, how do they call these "*pumps*"?


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## curiosone

Paulfromitaly said:


> Well yes, those shoes in the photo you linked are, to me, "flat comfortable shoes"
> My question is: since AmE speakers call "pumps" a totally different kind of women's shoes, how do they call these "*pumps*"?



If somebody talks about pumps, I think (in AE) of simple dress shoes with a heel ("décolletée" I believe they're called, in Italian), like these:  https://www.google.it/search?q=pump...feKGMbfOouEgegF&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=636 .

I usually call flat shoes "flats".  The pic in the middle I'd more specifically call "ballerina shoes". 
The pic on the right I'd call "sensible shoes" or "old lady shoes" 

With reference to the "tennis shoes" (sports shoes), in BE I understand they're also called "trainers."  In AE we call them either "tennis shoes" or  "sneakers."


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## Tegs

Hold on, I'm confused now. The photo you originally linked to Paul shows a pair of shoes which aren't pumps. So, I don't think the Italian term you had is equivalent to pumps in either BE or AE. Your photo was of shoes we call tennis shoes or trainers.


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> Hold on, I'm confused now. The photo you originally linked to Paul shows a pair of shoes which aren't pumps. So, I don't think the Italian term you had is equivalent to pumps in either BE or AE. Your photo was of shoes we call tennis shoes or trainers.



That's right 
I was under the impression that also those canvas shoes/tennis shoes might be called pumps in BrE, but both you and Ashley pointed out that it wasn't the case.
So my further question was: since I'm sure BrE speakers call some kind of "flat comfortable shoes" pumps how would AmE speakers call *these* (which you call pumps/ballerina pumps)?
Curiosone suggests "sensible shoes".


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## AshleySarah

Paulfromitaly said:


> That's right
> I was under the impression that also those canvas shoes/tennis shoes might be called pumps in BrE, but both you and Ashley pointed out that it wasn't the case.
> So my further question was: since I'm sure BrE speakers call some kind of "flat comfortable shoes" pumps how would AmE speakers call *these* (which you call pumps/ballerina pumps)?
> Curiosone suggests "sensible shoes".



Paul, I think in AmE those are called "loafers", but wait for confirmation from our AmE friends.


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## Paulfromitaly

AshleySarah said:


> Paul, I think in AmE those are called "loafers", but wait for confirmation from our AmE friends.



That's possible..or maybe also "flat pumps"?


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## curiosone

Paulfromitaly said:


> That's possible..or maybe also "flat pumps"?



NEVER pumps, in AE, for flat shoes!  Check the pic I provided in post #89, for pumps as we know them, in North America (none of them are flat).  In AE "flat pumps" is a contradiction of terms. 

"Loafers" in AE is "mocassini" in Italian.  Looking at your pic, Paul, the ones on the left I'd call "flats" (or maybe "loafers" - but I'd be more likely to call that particular style "moccasins," because of the way they're stitched, and because I distinguish between "loafers" and "moccassins", while Italians seem to lump them all together).  The shoes in the middle are "ballerina shoes" (thus avoiding the term "pumps" which has a different meaning in AE and BE).  The shoes on the right are technically "brogues", but "brogues" is BE.  "Sensible shoes" is a bit generic, and simply means "comfortable shoes".  A more specific term might "leather tie shoes" (which are usually flat). 
_
[...and don't get me started on "walking shoes" because that's something else again!]_


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## wildan1

AshleySarah said:


> Paul, I think in AmE those are called "loafers", but wait for confirmation from our AmE friends.


All of the various models on the web page give the specific titles for different styles of_ "flats" - moccasin, loafer, brogue, ballerina. _

I'm not a shoe salesman but all of those sound right.

_Pumps _on the other hand are definitely plain, classic high heel shoes in AE. See here. So _AE pump_ and _BE pump_ should be good candidates for your glossary.


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## Paulfromitaly

Alright, so there's already this entry in the glossary

*Termine in italiano: *scarpe decolletè
*Termine in AmE: *pumps
*Termine in BrE: *court shoes

Can we add this one too?

*Termine in italiano: *ballerine (calzature)
*Termine in AmE: * ballerina shoes
*Termine in BrE: *pumps

I don't think Brits would call "pumps" AmE loafers/moccasins so I'd stick to ballerina shoes


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## Tegs

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Termine in italiano: *ballerine (calzature)
> *Termine in AmE: * ballerina shoes
> *Termine in BrE: *pumps / ballet pumps
> 
> I don't think Brits would call "pumps" AmE loafers/moccasins so I'd stick to ballerina shoes I'd have to see a photo, but I think AmE loafers might equate to our brogues, not sure though


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## Paulfromitaly

This could be another good entry then

*Termine in italiano: *mocassini
*Termine in AmE: * loafers
*Termine in BrE: **brogues* (see photo)


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## frances88

I am from Britain but live in America so found this forum interesting. My mother used to call my gym shoes pumps. I called them plimsolls, I guess usage changes. On one website from the UK the type of shoe  PaulfromItaly showed in his original photo are described as  Canvas Lace Up Round Toe Casual Pumps. I can't post a link
as I am a new member but it  was on Barratts website under canvas shoes.


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## wildan1

Paulfromitaly said:


> This could be another good entry then
> 
> *Termine in italiano: *mocassini
> *Termine in AmE: * loafers
> *Termine in BrE: **brogues* (see photo)


_Brogues_ as illustrated look nothing like AE _loafers_, which are like these.
The _"brogues"_ in the link above are what I would call _wing-tips_ in AE.
NB: AE _"mocassins"_ are the traditional American-Indian style casual shoe -- like these.


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## CPA

frances88 said:


> I am from Britain but live in America so found this forum interesting. My mother used to call my gym shoes pumps. I called them plimsolls, I guess usage changes. On one website from the UK the type of shoe  PaulfromItaly showed in his original photo are described as  Canvas Lace Up Round Toe Casual Pumps. I can't post a link
> as I am a new member but it  was on Barratts website under canvas shoes.



Agree. Once upon a time, in BrE, pumps = plimsolls = white canvas lace-up tennis shoes made by D****p.
Mocassini, to me, are loafers in AE and slip-ons in BrE.
La quintessenza delle brogues, invece, è questa.


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## Tegs

In my salad days, plimsolls was the word we used for a very specific black slip-on rubber-soled gym shoe that children wore. Nothing else was called a plimsoll. 

http://www.littlewanderers.co.uk/me...525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/2/828_1736381156.jpg


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## Paulfromitaly

wildan1 said:


> _Brogues_ as illustrated look nothing like AE _loafers_, which are like these.
> The _"brogues"_ in the link above are what I would call _wing-tips_ in AE.
> NB: AE _"mocassins"_ are the traditional American-Indian style casual shoe -- like these.



You're right!
These should be accurate then

*Termine in italiano: mocassini* (see photo)
*Termine in AmE: * loafers
*Termine in BrE: *moccasins / slip-ons

*Termine in italiano: *Francesina (calzatura da uomo)
*Termine in AmE: *bluchers / wing-tips
*Termine in BrE: **brogues* (see photo)


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## Tegs

I'm not as au fait with men's shoe terms as with women's, but looking at the men's section of some popular UK brands, it seems AE loafers are also called loafers in BE (and not slip-ons). 

One other point, BE brogues are also worn by women (recent trend), so maybe you need to check if Francesine are worn by women too (and change the disambiguator to "calzatura")


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## Paulfromitaly

Tegs said:


> One other point, BE brogues are also worn by women (recent trend), so maybe you need to check if Francesine are worn by women too (and change the disambiguator to "calzatura")



Francesine / scarpe Derby are typically men's shoes, but I guess that the same recent trend has reached Italy too


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## london calling

Tegs said:


> I'm not as au fait with men's shoe terms as with women's, but looking at the men's section of some popular UK brands, it seems AE loafers are also called loafers in BE (and not slip-ons). *I agree. I call them loafers as well. Slip-ons just mean shoes without laces, so it could refer to any kind of shoe. And a mocassin to me is not the same as a loafer.*
> 
> One other point, BE brogues are also worn by women (recent trend), so maybe you need to check if Francesine are worn by women too (and change the disambiguator to "calzatura")


In the 1970s, when I was still at school, it became fashionable for girls to wear men's/boys' shoes: we either wore brogues or loafers. Therefore, rather than a recent trend it would appear to be a come-back!


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## Tegs

london calling said:


> In the 1970s, when I was still at school, it became fashionable for girls to wear men's/boys' shoes: we either wore brogues or loafers. Therefore, rather than a recent trend it would appear to be a come-back!



Ah, I didn't know that. Although at this point, practically everything in fashion is a come-back of something, so I shouldn't be surprised  

Paul - they're typically men's shoes over here too. Just that women have stolen the look


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## sound shift

*Termine in italiano*: pigiama
*Termine in AmE*: pajamas
*Termine in BrE*: pyjamas


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## Paulfromitaly

london calling said:


> Tegs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not as au fait with men's shoe terms as with   women's, but looking at the men's section of some popular UK brands, it   seems AE loafers are also called loafers in BE (and not slip-ons). *I agree. I call them loafers as well. Slip-ons just mean shoes without laces, so it could refer to any kind of shoe. And a mocassin to me is not the same as a loafer.*
Click to expand...

Then the question arises: what is a moccasin to you?? 
It isn't what we call mocassino?


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## wildan1

sound shift said:


> *Termine in italiano*: pigiama
> *Termine in AmE*: pajamas
> *Termine in BrE*: pyjamas


What's the difference here? I have never seen the spelling proposed for AE--I write it with a Y, too. 
(AE child's slang for pyjamas is _jammies_ or _jams)_


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## sound shift

You'll find "pajamas" in the house dictionary, followed by the words "the US spelling of 'pyjamas'". I've seen "pajamas" in many US texts and in messages posted in the WR forums.


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## wildan1

sound shift said:


> You'll find "pajamas" in the house dictionary, followed by the words "the US spelling of 'pyjamas'". I've seen "pajamas" in many US texts.


It may be an alternative spelling, but I think most of learned it with a Y in school, and I've always spelled it that way.


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## sound shift

Then maybe we could say:
*Termine in italiano*: pigiama
*Termine in AmE*: pyjamas, pajamas
*Termine in BrE*: pyjamas


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## london calling

Paulfromitaly said:


> Then the question arises: what is a moccasin to you??
> It isn't what we call mocassino?


Yes and no. To me a _mocassin_ is much lighter in weight (see here) than a _loafer_ (or a penny loafer, which is what you call a "scarpa college" here in Italy).


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## wildan1

sound shift said:


> Then maybe we could say:
> *Termine in italiano*: pigiama
> *Termine in AmE*: pyjamas, pajamas
> *Termine in BrE*: pyjamas


I'm pretty sure my elementary school teacher would have given me an X if I tried to write that on a spelling test!

I think nowadays it's a "tolerated" alternative spelling. I don't see the benefit of putting this in a learner's head that they have to keep straight between our two interpretations of our shared language. A Y will always be correct in AE.


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## Tegs

I agree WD - I don't think the difference in spelling is significant enough to be included


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## Paulfromitaly

*Termine in italiano*: concordare con
*Termine in AmE*: to jibe with
*Termine in BrE*: to match / to tally with


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## curiosone

> Originariamente inviata da *sound shift*
> 
> 
> Then maybe we could say:
> *Termine in italiano*: pigiama
> *Termine in AmE*: pyjamas (Canada), pajamas (USA and Canada)
> *Termine in BrE*: pyjamas





wildan1 said:


> I'm pretty sure my elementary school teacher would have given me an X if I tried to write that on a spelling test!
> 
> I think nowadays it's a "tolerated" alternative spelling. I don't see the benefit of putting this in a learner's head that they have to keep straight between our two interpretations of our shared language. A Y will always be correct in AE  .



Hi wildan 

That's YOUR opinion (not mine).  I've always called/spelled them "*pajamas*", that's the way other AE speakers I know (from various parts of the United States) spell it, and the _slang_ is "*PJs*" (pronounced _pee-jays_) - or *jammies*.  

I have no problem accepting that "pyjamas" is the BE spelling, nor that Canadians evidently use both spellings ("pyjamas" and "pajamas"), but mainstream Americans ("statunitensi") generally spell it "pajamas" - as is clearly indicated here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajamashttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajamas
...and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...ferent_spellings_for_different_pronunciations

All of which makes me wonder if you grew up in Canada, or near the Canadian border?


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## wildan1

curiosone said:


> All of which makes me wonder if you grew up in Canada, or near the Canadian border?


Nope, I'm just as native an AE-speaker as you, co.

I stand by the point that this spelling variation is not worth bothering language learners about. I think helping learners of Engish is the primary purpose of the Italian-English Forum's initiative.

_PJ_'s is a good addition as a slang term--but where I grew up (farther north than you if you come from "hillbilly" country), _jams_ and _jammies_ are popular slang words, too.

(It is really hard for anyone to be quite so categorical about language variations in a country the size of a whole continent!)


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## Tegs

wildan1 said:


> I stand by the point that this spelling variation is not worth bothering language learners about.


I agree - the spelling difference is too minor for this to be worth including in our table, so it won't be making it in to the final version, don't worry. A lot of other similar spelling differences won't be making it in either. 

In BE we also say the same slang words as you do for pyjamas. Again, not enough difference to warrant worrying learners about it.


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## london calling

Paulfromitaly said:


> Would you also say headband or is that something different to you?


I'd wear a headband when I go jogging.

PS. BE slang for pyjamas: jim-jams! Only for kiddies, however.


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## Teerex51

*Termine in italiano: *fegato (fig. per "coraggio")*
Termine in AmE: *moxie*
Termine in BrE: *bottle


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## sound shift

*Termine in italiano: *andare d'accordo con (persona)
*Termine in AmE: *to get along with
*Termine in BrE: *to get on with, to get along with


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## mflcs

As a girl in the 1950s, I was constrained to wear sturdy, lace-up leather shoes, which my mother called "oxfords."


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## Matrap

Hi mflcs

Very interesting! Would you please provide the Italian name for those shoes and the corresponding BE version? (assuming "oxfords" is what you call them in the States). Thanks.


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## wildan1

_Oxfords_? Are those the same a _saddle shoes_? I remember girls wearing them waaayy back in my schoolboy days. (The epitome of ugly!)


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## mflcs

Hi Matrap

Termine in italiano: francesine
Termine in AmE: oxfords
Termine in BrE: Balmorals


Hi wildan1

Yes, those too are they.  Sì, eranno brutte assai.


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## Einstein

I remember the term "Oxford shoes". I thought they were only for men. I see from Google images that they're similar for men and women, which is why I wouldn't want to wear them if I were a woman. In some pictures they seem pretty similar to "brogues"; do you use that term in America?


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