# Persian: خواهی تو فلک هفت شمر خواهی هشت



## Artaxerxes I

Hello!

Can someone help me to give a literal translation of the above line? Based ony my Intuition i would translate it as "Count, if you want to, seven or height spheres". I think that Khayyam wants to say that it does not matter whether you imagine the formament to consist of either seven or eight spheres since the sky did never revolved (worked) for the wish of the wiseful.

چون چرخ بکام یک خردمند نگشت
خواهی تو فلک هفت شمر خواهی هشت
چون باید مرد و آرزوها همه هشت
چه مور خورد بگور و چه گرگ بدشت

Am i right?


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## PersoLatin

Artaxerxes I said:


> Can someone help me to give a literal translation of the above line? Based ony my Intuition i would translate it as "Count, if you want to, seven or height spheres". I think that Khayyam wants to say that it does not matter whether you imagine the formament to consist of either seven or eight spheres since the sky did never revolved (worked) for the wish of the wiseful.
> 
> چون چرخ بکام یک خردمند نگشت
> خواهی تو فلک هفت شمر خواهی هشت
> چون باید مرد و آرزوها همه هشت
> چه مور خورد بگور و چه گرگ بدشت
> 
> Am i right?



I believe you have it right. One small point, I think Xayyám is using خردمند to separate a 'thinking' person from a 'non-thinking' one, as the latter is oblivious to workings of the world, where the former may not be, but still fails to change it to his ways (کام)


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## rc2

PersoLatin said:


> I believe you have it right. One small point, I think Xayyám is using خردمند to separate a 'thinking' person from a 'non-thinking' one, as the latter is oblivious to workings of the world, where the former may not be, but still fails to change it to his ways (کام)



Could someone expound on what the word "hasht" (هشت) means in line 3 of the quatrain above please? It does not appear to mean 8 as in line 2?
Thanks in advance.


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## Qureshpor

rc2 said:


> Could someone expound on what the word "hasht" (هشت) means in line 3 of the quatrain above please? It does not appear to mean 8 as in line 2?
> Thanks in advance.


هشت. [ هَِ ] ( اِ صوت ) صفیر و صدایی که از دو لب خارج می کنند. ( ناظم الاطباء ). رجوع به هشپلک شود

As one's fate is ultimately death, all the desires are merely "a whistle" (wind, a puff of air)!


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## rc2

Qureshpor said:


> هشت. [ هَِ ] ( اِ صوت ) صفیر و صدایی که از دو لب خارج می کنند. ( ناظم الاطباء ). رجوع به هشپلک شود
> 
> As one's fate is ultimately death, all the desires are merely "wind (a whistle، a puff of air)!


 Many thanks, QP sahib. I was reading it as hasht (with a zabar on the hay) all this while and it confused me. The word "hesht" (/hisht) is new to me, and I am enlightened with your response and pointer. Steingass adds/mixes the word "hisht" in the entry for "hasht" so it can only be found if one searches for "hasht!" 

Thanks again. aadaab.


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## Qureshpor

rc2 said:


> Many thanks, QP sahib. I was reading it as hasht (with a zabar on the hay) all this while and it confused me. The word "hesht" (/hisht) is new to me, and I am enlightened with your response and pointer. Steingass adds/mixes the word "hisht" in the entry for "hasht" so it can only be found if one searches for "hasht!"
> 
> Thanks again. aadaab.


The dictionary (Dehkhoda) I've quoted gives the pronunciation as "hasht" and "hisht/hesht".


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## Qureshpor

As the skies do not for the wishes of the wise rotate

It matters not if you count them as seven or eight!

Death is inevitable and all the desires, mere breath

Whether in a grave ants ate you or a plains-wolf ate

(Not happy with the fourth line )


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## Skeptical7

rc2 said:


> Could someone expound on what the word "hasht" (هشت) means in line 3 of the quatrain above please? It does not appear to mean 8 as in line 2?
> Thanks in advance.


This word is pronounced "hesht" means to leave, "hasht" is number 8.
The sentence means that "because you die and have to leave all your ambitions"...


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> one's fate is ultimately death, all the desires are merely "a whistle" (wind, a puff of air)!


But the meaning of the "verb" of hesht is "to leave" as I explained in my previous comment, this word here is used as a verb not noun. that poem is Farsi.


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## Qureshpor

Skeptical7 said:


> But the meaning of the "verb" of hesht is "to leave" as I explained in my previous comment, this word here is used as a verb not noun. that poem is Farsi.


Did Khayyam use Luri-Bakhtiyari words in his poetry? Dehkhoda does not provide ھشتن as a verb meaning to leave.


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> Did Khayyam use Luri-Bakhtiyari words in his poetry?


That is Farsi, not luri or bakhtiyari.
fa.M.Wiktionary.Org/wiki/%D9%87%D8%B4%D8%AA

Besides the word here is a verb not noun, cause if you consider that as a noun the sentence has no verb and has no meaning.


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## Qureshpor

Skeptical7 said:


> That is Farsi, not luri or bakhtiyari.
> fa.M.Wiktionary.Org/wiki/%D9%87%D8%B4%D8%AA
> 
> Besides the word here is a verb not noun, cause if you consider that as a noun the sentence has no verb and has no meaning.


Is ھشت an imperative verb, i.e فعل امر? If it is, then the و after چون باید مرد does not make sense.


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> Is ھشت an imperative verb, i.e فعل امر? If it is, then the و after چون باید مرد does not make sense.


My friend, I think you read the poem wrongly, the right pronunciation is: چون باید مُرد و آرزوها همه هِشت
Which means that "we finally die and have to leave our ambitions" 
Actually باید here has come to help هشت.
In Farsi poems we have inversion, it happens a lot, and really sometimes is so sophisticated, here it is like this باید هشت means that you "have to leave" 
You die and have to leave your ambitions, so no matter what happens.


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## Qureshpor

Thank you for your explanation @Skeptical7. I have found a variation for this rubaa3ii where the third line has ھیچ


چون چرخ بکام یک خردمند نگشت
خواهی تو فلک هفت شمر خواهی هشت
چون باید مرد آرزوها همه ھیچ
چه مور خورد بگور و چه گرگ بدشت

Rubaiyat-e-Umar Khayyam  by Umar Khayyam | Rekhta (page 28- rubaa3ii no. 201)


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## Skeptical7

Thank you this is interesting, but by هیچ the rhythm doesn't fit. 
ganjoor.Net/khayyam/robaee/sh26


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## rc2

Skeptical7 said:


> My friend, I think you read the poem wrongly, the right pronunciation is: چون باید مُرد و آرزوها همه هِشت
> Which means that "we finally die and have to leave our ambitions"
> Actually باید here has come to help هشت.
> In Farsi poems we have inversion, it happens a lot, and really sometimes is so sophisticated, here it is like this باید هشت means that you "have to leave"
> You die and have to leave your ambitions, so no matter what happens.



Thank you very much for your additions to this thread, @Skeptical7. I have learnt from your additions.


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## Qureshpor

Skeptical7 said:


> My friend, I think you read the poem wrongly, the right pronunciation is: چون باید مُرد و آرزوها همه هِشت
> Which means that "we finally die and have to leave our ambitions"
> Actually باید here has come to help هشت.
> In Farsi poems we have inversion, it happens a lot, and really sometimes is so sophisticated, here it is like this باید هشت means that you "have to leave"
> You die and have to leave your ambitions, so no matter what happens.


What is the present root/tense for ھشت?


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> What is the present root/tense for ھشت?


هشت itself is the root of the verb, بهشت means رها کرد.....(past tense) this is a very old verb, it is not used these days.


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## Qureshpor

Skeptical7 said:


> هشت itself is the root of the verb, بهشت means رها کرد.....(past tense) this is a very old verb, it is not used these days.


All the verbs are old. How does one say "I move, I am moving" using this verb.


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> verbs are old. How does one say "I move, I am moving" using this verb.


"Old" I mean outdated, not used anymore in Farsi, معنی هشتن | لغت‌نامه دهخدا
Have a look at the link, this is the verb, هشتن.
A lot of poets have used هشتن to mean leaving, or abandoning.


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## Qureshpor

Skeptical7 said:


> "Old" I mean outdated, not used anymore in Farsi, معنی هشتن | لغت‌نامه دهخدا
> Have a look at the link, this is the verb, هشتن.
> A lot of poets have used هشتن to mean leaving, or abandoning.


So, it's not used in the present tense? How would you say "Leave me here.", using this verb?


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## Skeptical7

Qureshpor said:


> So, it's not used in the present tense? How would you say "Leave me here.", using this verb?


for commanding you would say " مرا اینجا بهشت"
"ب" comes at the first of the verb like other verbs, like این را بخور : eat this

But if you say it now, no one would understand what you mean, because the verb is forgotten now, instead we use ترک کردن، رها کردن


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## PersoLatin

هشتن’s primary meaning is  گذاشتن and نهادن, ‘to leave’ is a secondary meaning, its primary meaning also fits in Xayyâm’s lines in the OP.

These days هشتن, like some other verbs, is used in the past tense forms, including participle, but I’m sure in some regional dialects its present tense is also used.



Qureshpor said:


> So, it's not used in the present tense? How would you say "Leave me here.", using this verb?


There is also نهشتن "na/neheŝtan" (with exactly the same meaning as نهادن) based on this مرا اینجا بنه "leave/place me here", the "ne/na" part means "down".


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