# I have been defrosting/ have defrosted the freezer



## old woman

I have just finished defrosting the freezer and I have put the ice in the sink. 

Is it correct to say: "There is some ice in the sink, because I have been defrosting the freezer" or should I say "because I have defrosted the freezer?"


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## grassy

old woman said:


> Is it correct to say: "There is some ice in the sink, because I have been defrosting the freezer"


Yes, it is.


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## cidertree

Your first sentence is fine. I'd change the second to "...I have just defrosted the freezer" or "...I defrosted the freezer."


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## old woman

cidertree said:


> Your first sentence is fine. I'd change the second to "...I have just defrosted the freezer" or "...I defrosted the freezer."


By my first sentence you mean: "I have been defrosting the freezer?"


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## cidertree

Yes, sorry I wasn't very clear.


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## PaulQ

Both of your sentence are correct.

"... because I have been defrosting the freezer" = have been in the process of defrosting: this describes the time from just after starting to just before finishing. It emphasises, in this context, the duration, and hence your work.

"... because I have defrosted the freezer" = this describes the completed action of defrosting. It emphasises your having done something.


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## old woman

PaulQ said:


> Both of your sentence are correct.
> 
> "... because I have been defrosting the freezer" = have been in the process of defrosting: this describes the time from just after starting to just before finishing. It emphasises, in this context, the duration, and hence your work.
> 
> "... because I have defrosted the freezer" = this describes the completed action of defrosting. It emphasises your having done something.


I am describing the action after I have just finished defrosting. Can I still use the continuous?


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## Hermione Golightly

Yes, so long as the time of speaking is near the end or just after the time that was spent on the freezer.


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## PaulQ

The time at which you describe it is not really relevant to the form of verb. 

As I said, "Both are correct" - therefore you can use either.

Often the difference between the past continuous and the past simple form is merely a personal choice, especially if the action is known to take some time.


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## Hermione Golightly

I can't imagine saying _I've been doing something _several days after the activity finished or even the next day.


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> I can't imagine saying _I've been doing something _several days after the activity finished or even the next day.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> A few hours after finishing the activity, is that okay? Let's say two hours.


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## Hermione Golightly

Yes.


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> Yes.


Could you explain when it is not okay, how many hours must pass before the continuous becomes inappropriate? Not the next day, but the same day?


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## Hermione Golightly

The same sort of guidelines as apply to the past perfect. I'm talking only about the freezer defrosting a single 'action' which takes a relatively short time with a start and a finish.
I suppose the limit would be within the same day. 
-What have you been doing today?
-I've been cleaning the freezer.


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## old woman

cidertree said:


> Your first sentence is fine. I'd change the second to "...I have just defrosted the freezer" or "...I defrosted the freezer."


"why wouldn't you say: "I have defrosted the freezer?"


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> Yes.


So "just after" could be a few hours, as long as it is the same day?


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## cidertree

old woman said:


> "why wouldn't you say: "I have defrosted the freezer?"


It sounds "off" to me in this context although others wouldn't agree. The "correct choice" of tense is not always clear-cut. In reality, if the sink is still full of ice, I'd say that_ I am defrosting the freezer_.


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## old woman

cidertree said:


> It sounds "off" to me in this context although others wouldn't agree. The "correct choice" of tense is not always clear-cut. In reality, if the sink is still full of ice, I'd say that_ I am defrosting the freezer_.


But I have just finished defrosting, it is done.


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## cidertree

A job is never finished until you've cleared up.


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## PaulQ

old woman said:


> But I have just finished defrosting, it is done.





PaulQ said:


> The time at which you describe it is not really relevant to the form of verb.


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## Edinburgher

In the context given, where the ice is still in the sink now, I would consider simple past ("because I defrosted") inappropriate.  I would only use present perfect, either simple or continuous ("because I *have* defrosted" or "because I*'ve been* defrosting").


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## PaulQ

Edinburgher said:


> I would consider simple past ("because I defrosted") inappropriate.


Would you find "Because I defrosted the freezer, there is some ice in the sink." inappropriate? I think context plays a part.


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## Edinburgher

Perhaps a little less so.  It's different if the context isn't provided up front.  

If I were to make this statement out of the blue, I don't think I would start with the because-clause.


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## se16teddy

"I have defrosted the freezer" is a statement in the *present *(perfect) tense refers to the *present* result (which is not specified, but which we must infer from the context). It is practically synonymous with "Now the freezer is not full of ice (because I have done something about it)".
"I have been defrosting the freezer" states that this activity and process occupied a recent period.

So going back to #1, which is the truer statement?
1 There is ice in the sink because there is not now ice in the freezer or
2. There is ice in the sink because of the activity that took place recently.
I vote for 2. There is ice in the sink because I *have been defrosting* the freezer.


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> The same sort of guidelines as apply to the past perfect. I'm talking only about the freezer defrosting a single 'action' which takes a relatively short time with a start and a finish.
> I suppose the limit would be within the same day.
> -What have you been doing today?
> -I've been cleaning the freezer.


Have you finished cleaning the freezer?


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## Hermione Golightly

Mine doesn't need defrosting. In fact, it's at least 20 years since I had a fridgefreezer that did. Strongly suggest you replace. And get self-cleaning oven too!
Thanks for asking!


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> Mine doesn't need defrosting. In fact, it's at least 20 years since I had a fridgefreezer that did. Strongly suggest you replace. And get self-cleaning oven too!
> Thanks for asking!


What I mean is: If you say: "what have you been doing today? I have been cleaning the freezer" have you finished cleaning the freezer?


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## Hermione Golightly

The question "Have you finished cleaning the freezer?" expects the answer yes or no.
Have you been cleaning the freezer can also have the anser yes or no. It asks about the recent activity, in this context considering that cleaning something is not a repeated action, nor is it annoying.
Perhaps if you tell us why you are asking we could help you understand. Is this homework?


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> The question "Have you finished cleaning the freezer?" expects the answer yes or no.
> Have you been cleaning the freezer can also have the anser yes or no. It asks about the recent activity, in this context considering that cleaning something is not a repeated action, nor is it annoying.
> Perhaps if you tell us why you are asking we could help you understand. Is this homework?


No,  I am trying to understand the present perfect continuous.  What I am trying to understand is if in this example the recent activity has finished. That's all.


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## Wordy McWordface

old woman said:


> What I mean is: If you say: "what have you been doing today? I have been cleaning the freezer" have you finished cleaning the freezer?




_If you say: "What have you been doing today?" "I have been cleaning the freezer" have you finished cleaning the freezer?_

Possibly. Or possibly not. With the present perfect continuous, the focus is on the activity. The context will probably tell us whether you've finished the job, but the tense itself does not.

If you said "I've cleaned the freezer", this would mean that you'd finished.


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## old woman

Wordy McWordface said:


> _If you say: "What have you been doing today?" "I have been cleaning the freezer" have you finished cleaning the freezer?_
> 
> Possibly. Or possibly not. With the present perfect continuous, the focus is on the activity. The context will probably tell us whether you've finished the job, but the tense itself does not.
> 
> If you said "I've cleaned the freezer", this would mean that you'd finished.


Yes, but there is the possibility I have finished, even though the tense doesn't make that clear. I can utter "I have been cleaning" shortly after I have finished. It is possible, yes?


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## Hermione Golightly

Yes. There is no sure rule about this other than when a definite time in the past is mentioned the continuous form would not be used.

Last week I have been cleaning out the greenhouse.


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## old woman

se16teddy said:


> "I have defrosted the freezer" is a statement in the *present *(perfect) tense refers to the *present* result (which is not specified, but which we must infer from the context). It is practically synonymous with "Now the freezer is not full of ice (because I have done something about it)".
> "I have been defrosting the freezer" states that this activity and process occupied a recent period.
> 
> So going back to #1, which is the truer statement?
> 1 There is ice in the sink because there is not now ice in the freezer or
> 2. There is ice in the sink because of the activity that took place recently.
> I vote for 2. There is ice in the sink because I *have been defrosting* the freezer.


If it took place recently it is no longer taking place, correct?


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## se16teddy

old woman said:


> If it took place recently it is no longer taking place, correct?


The present perfect continuous tense does not indicate that the activity is not continuing now and into the future. 
If I say “I have been doing this for four years
- the *four years* referred to are in the past, ending now
- the activity done occupied that period with some degree of continuity, but
- the activity may or may not be happening at the present instant, and it may or may not be likely to continue into the future.


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## old woman

se16teddy said:


> The present perfect continuous tense does not indicate that the activity is not continuing now and into the future.
> If I say “I have been doing this for four years
> - the *four years* referred to are in the past, ending now
> - the activity done occupied that period with some degree of continuity, but
> - the activity may or may not be happening at the present instant, and it may or may not be likely to continue into the future.


In my example of "I have been defrosting the freezer, the defrosting finished recently, so it is possible to use the continuous, correct?


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## se16teddy

old woman said:


> In my example of "I have been defrosting the freezer, the defrosting finished recently, so it is possible to use the continuous, correct?


Correct; but even if you have not finished defrosting it is possible to use the continuous.


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## old woman

se16teddy said:


> Correct; but even if you have not finished defrosting it is possible to use the continuous.


Yes, but the continuing aspect of the continuous isn't the problem, it is the recently finished aspect I find difficult.


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## Hermione Golightly

The activity isn't necessarily finished. "I've been reading" says nothing about whether you have read the book to the end. But defrosting a freezer is an activity that doesn't go on for long so we might think it could have finished.


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> The activity isn't necessarily finished. "I've been reading" says nothing about whether you have read the book to the end. But defrosting a freezer is an activity that doesn't go on for long so we might think it could have finished.


Not necessarily finished, but possibly. So "I've been defrosting the freezer" can be uttered if you have finished defrosting recently. see your answers#8 and 32


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## Uncle Jack

The present perfect has many uses. The use in this thread is for something that happened in the past but has significance in the present. The sink presently being full of ice provides this significance, and makes the present perfect the obvious tense to use. Clearly. the opportunity for an event in the past to have significance in the present recedes the longer ago the action took place, but in principle there is no limit to how long ago an action can take place and the present perfect still be used.

The choice between the present perfect simple and the present perfect continuous depends on whether you want to emphasise the outcome of the action (the freezer is now defrosted; use the past present perfect simple) or you want to emphasise the process or the time it took (use the present perfect continuous). In this example, it is the process of defrosting the freezer that has resulted in ice being in the sink, so the obvious choice is the present perfect continuous, but the present perfect simple would not be wrong.

There are a couple of things to add to this.

The present perfect simple with an action verb always means that the action is complete, whereas the present perfect continuous does not say whether the action is complete or not.
It is easy enough to think of actions that took place years ago whose outcome have significance in the present. These, of course, would use the present perfect simple because the focus is on the outcome. However, it is highly unlikely that the process itself or the duration of an action that took place a long time ago would have any significance in the present, so it is very rare for the present perfect continuous to be used for events that took place long ago in the past, and mostly the present perfect continuous is used for events that are very recent indeed. In this particular example, as soon as the ice melts there would be no cause to use the present perfect continuous to explain the ice in the sink, but you might continue using the present perfect simple as a means of saying that the freezer (still) has no ice in it for a week or two.
A: You should defrost the freezer.
B: I have defrosted the freezer. I did it three weeks ago. It cannot need defrosting again.


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## old woman

Uncle Jack said:


> The present perfect has many uses. The use in this thread is for something that happened in the past but has significance in the present. The sink presently being full of ice provides this significance, and makes the present perfect the obvious tense to use. Clearly. the opportunity for an event in the past to have significance in the present recedes the longer ago the action took place, but in principle there is no limit to how long ago an action can take place and the present perfect still be used.
> 
> The choice between the present perfect simple and the present perfect continuous depends on whether you want to emphasise the outcome of the action (the freezer is now defrosted; use the past present perfect simple) or you want to emphasise the process or the time it took (use the present perfect continuous). In this example, it is the process of defrosting the freezer that has resulted in ice being in the sink, so the obvious choice is the present perfect continuous, but the present perfect simple would not be wrong.
> 
> There are a couple of things to add to this.
> 
> The present perfect simple with an action verb always means that the action is complete, whereas the present perfect continuous does not say whether the action is complete or not.
> It is easy enough to think of actions that took place years ago whose outcome have significance in the present. These, of course, would use the present perfect simple because the focus is on the outcome. However, it is highly unlikely that the process itself or the duration of an action that took place a long time ago would have any significance in the present, so it is very rare for the present perfect continuous to be used for events that took place long ago in the past, and mostly the present perfect continuous is used for events that are very recent indeed. In this particular example, as soon as the ice melts there would be no cause to use the present perfect continuous to explain the ice in the sink, but you might continue using the present perfect simple as a means of saying that the freezer (still) has no ice in it for a week or two.
> A: You should defrost the freezer.
> B: I have defrosted the freezer. I did it three weeks ago. It cannot need defrosting again.


Thank you very much for your effort! Very clear explanation!


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## old woman

Uncle Jack said:


> "you want to emphasise the process or the time it took (use the present perfect continuous)". Even if the process has been completed recently, you could use the continuous, because you focus on the activity, correct? It is just that the tense itself doesn't make that clear, but it is possible to use it.


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## Hermione Golightly

We've been discussing this for a very long time, haven't we?
What do you understand from me using the present perfect continuous rather than using the present perfect, "We've discussed this for a long time, haven't we"?

This is my last comment on this topic. The native speaker chooses instinctively what aspect they wish to use to express themselves, to best convey facts, ideas and attitudes. The student has first to develop a sensibility, with which they might master the nuances. It took us several years of total immersion to acquire the instinctive usage. It takes the learner even longer.


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## old woman

Hermione Golightly said:


> We've been discussing this for a very long time, haven't we?
> What do you understand from me using the present perfect continuous rather than using the present perfect, "We've discussed this for a long time, haven't we"?
> 
> This is my last comment on this topic. The native speaker chooses instinctively what aspect they wish to use to express themselves, to best convey facts, ideas and attitudes. The student has first to develop a sensibility, with which they might master the nuances. It took us several years of total immersion to acquire the instinctive usage. It takes the learner even longer.


Not necessarily finished, but possibly. So "I've been defrosting the freezer" can be uttered if you have finished defrosting recently. see your answers#8 and 32. 

Could you just answer this one for me please, thank you.


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