# FR: X and I - pronom & accord du verbe



## cruxcriticorum

Bonjour tout le monde,

J’ai une question à propos de la grammaire.

Although this was never explained in my French textbook, I’ve notived that whenever you want to say something like « Nicole and I are going to the movie theater » in French, you say « Nicole et moi, nous allons au cinéma » or « Nicole et moi, on va au cinéma ».  You do not say « Nicole et moi allons au cinéma ».  On the other hand, if you want to say Nicole and Marc are going to the movie theater, you say « Nicole et Marc vont au cinéma ».  So, is it correct that whenever you have a pronoun as one of the subjects (toi, moi, il ,elle), you must follow the subjects with a comma and then the plural pronoun (nous, on, ils, elles) ?  I hope my rambling makes sense.

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one.


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## A day in Eireann

Your rambling makes sense, my sleepy wording may not; but to start you on the way, here is a quick remark.
You could say all the above, the double subject ( in the line of " he and I, we" ) is only a colloqual usage, and usually is due to the fact that many French people are unsure of the grammar point in question. And so to avoid having to find out whether the subject should be considered as the "nous" pronoun form, or as the "they" form for the verb spelling, the double subject is used; In the hope that if one matches the second subject ( we, they, etc) with the verb, then it would not matter whether the first subject (Name plus pronoun) meant it was to be read as "we" or as "they".


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## tilt

In fact, adding a useless pronoun in the sentence is colloquial and not required at all. _Nicole et moi allons au cinéma_ is perfectly correct and should be prefered.

I think people do this because having a singular pronoun (_moi, toi, *lui*, *elle*_) followed by a verb in a plural form sounds odd to their ears. You don't have such a problem in English because the verb doesn't change with the person.

[…]


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## wildan1

There are two things to understand in your question:

1. Stress in French is not made by putting it in your voice, but by adding more words before or after the main statement

so _Nicole et moi, nous.... (_or _on.... _--see below_)_ is a way of saying _We_ (the two of us) _are going to the movies_ (as opposed to what you might be doing)

2._ nous allons/on va..._ mean the same thing. Spoken colloquial French tends to use _on...._ instead of _nous..._ But if you write it (or are speaking formally) you should always use _nous..._
There really isn't a difference of meaning; it's more a question of register.


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## cruxcriticorum

Thanks for all of the wonderful replies. Right now, I'm only able to peruse the forums once a day at about this time, so I didn't get a chance to respond until now.

The examples I gave were from my French textbook (_Débuts_). In each instance of a double subject, if a subject pronoun was used, the double subject was followed by a comma and the pronoun that would apply to both subjects collectively. If both subjects were proper nouns, they were simply followed by the verb, as in English.

[…]


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## BillyBob123

If I wanted to write a sentence in the "nous" form, but use actual names which would be correct:

Je et Sam sommes allés au cinéma. OR
Sam et moi sommes allés au cinéma.

or, do you have to include "nous"
Sam et moi, nous sommes allés au cinéma.


It seems like a really simple question, but I'm not sure what the answer is.
Thanks


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## dan144556

Well, first of all, remember that "aller" takes "être" as a helping verb..."nous sommes allés."

But unfortunately I can't answer your question.  Actually, I've wondered about this too...


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## regisbobe

Actually both are correct:

Sam et moi sommes allé au cinéma.
Sam et moi, nous sommes allés au cinéma.
Sam et moi avons été au cinéma.

If you add "nous" it is to emphase the action in the same way that "do" is use in english.


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## Tim~!

Not to forget, of course, that spoken French would also readily accept:

On est allés au cinéma, Sam et moi.

Sam et moi, on est allés au cinéma.


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## Fred_C

regisbobe said:


> Sam et moi sommes allé au cinéma.
> Sam et moi, nous sommes allés au cinéma.
> Sam et moi avons été au cinéma.


The latter is very popular and not very correct. (you should not use "être" instead of "aller", in French).
As a foreigner, it is reasonable to know this form in order to recognise it, but do not use it yourself.
In my opinion, it is far more popular than using "on" instead of "nous", which is quite standard in speech.
Besides, not repeating the pronoun (nous or on) is not very usual in speech, but preferable in a text.
Mixing this litterary device with the popular use of "être" instead of "aller" is quite preposterous, in my opinion.


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## Nikkib7

Cette phrase est correcte grammaticallement?

"Marie et moi nous sommes promenées dans le parc
Marie et moi nous ne nous sommes pas promenées dans le parc

ou

"Marie et moi sommes promenées dans le parc"
Marie et moi ne sommes pas promenées dans le parc.

MERCI


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## Mtrain17

The first set are correct.


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## Ellea1

Hi, 

The first two sentences are correct.

Marie et moi nous sommes promenées.
Marie et moi ne nous sommes pas promenées.


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## ColinForhan

Est-ce que cette phrase est correcte?

Fernanda et moi *se demandions* si l'apartement est individuel ou partagé.

La phrase en anglais:
Fernanda and I *were wondering *if the apartment is individual or shared.

Merçi d'avance!


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## snarkhunter

"Fernanda et moi, *nous* nous demand*ions*..."

"Fernanda et moi nous demandions..."

"Fernanda et moi, on se demandait..."


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## ColinForhan

Merçi, Snarkhunter!


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## snarkhunter

You're welcome!

And please do not mix up:

"Fernanda et moi nous demandions..." _(i.e. we were wondering)_

and

"Fernanda et moi*,* nous demandions..." _(i.e. we would ask)_


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## Melind

Me and my friends will dance all night
Mes amis et je vais danser toute la nuit.
 ^ is this correct.

or

Mes amis et moi allons danser toute la nuit.


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## Maître Capello

Only the latter is correct: with multiple coordinated subjects, you can't use _je_, you have to use the disjunctive pronoun _moi_ instead.

_Mes amis et moi allons danser toute la nuit._


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## jann

And for the sake of completeness... 

In English, we should rather say "my friends and I will dance..."

Stylistically, we are supposed to put ourselves last in a list... and grammatically, we need the subject pronoun "I" here instead of the object pronoun "me."


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## binhle410

in English, we use are in the case of *"my father, my mother and I"
*Is it the same in French ?

Mon père, ma mère et *moi sommes *contents.

Merci bien d'avance.


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## Yendred

This is correct:
_Mon père, ma mère et moi sommes contents. _
Note this is written language. 
In spoken language, you would usually repeat the subject:
_Mon père, ma mère et moi*, nous *sommes contents. _


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## fdb

Ou bien: ....on est content.


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## VanOo

Yendred said:


> In spoken language, you would usually repeat the subject:
> _Mon père, ma mère et moi*, nous *sommes contents. _



That's sadly true. And it's especially *annoying *with a single subject ("tout le monde, il est content". "Les taxes, elles sont trop élevées"). Sarkozy uses this structure a lot.


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## parisaram

I don't think it's sad. "_sommes_" is, in the oral language, a very short word and it is better to add something ("_nous_") so that the structure of the sentence is easier to understand. Clarity is more important than any strict grammar rules we learnt at the age of 6.

In familiar language, we would actually say: "_mes parents et moi, *on est *contents._"


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## fdb

Sad or not, in modern spoken French verbs in the 1st and 2nd person singular or plural are actually never used without a personal pronoun. "Mes parents et moi sommes contents" sounds dreadfully bookish.


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## VanOo

parisaram said:


> I don't think it's sad. "_sommes_" is, in the oral language, a very short word and it is better to add something ("_nous_") so that the structure of the sentence is easier to understand. Clarity is more important than any strict grammar rules we learnt at the age of 6.
> 
> In familiar language, we would actually say: "_mes parents et moi, *on est *contents._"



I doubt this is the place for such a debate, but I don't see how "_mon père, ma mère et moi nous sommes contents_." is clearer than "_mon père, ma mère et moi sommes contents_". 

That being said, you're free to speak as you please.


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## Yendred

VanOo said:


> I don't see how "_mon père, ma mère et moi nous sommes contents_." is clearer than "_mon père, ma mère et moi sommes contents_".



Oralement si. Et le fait d'ajouter une virgule (donc une respiration), rend aussi la phrase plus claire "_mon père, ma mère et moi*,* nous sommes contents_."
Je suis d'accord avec parisaram pour mettre en avant la clarté plutôt que la pureté. 
(quant à Sarkozy, je préfère l'oublier...)


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## zeldaj

Hello! I'm wondering if I can get some help translating this sentiment into French:

*My friend and I* decided to go to the store.

I have an intermediate level in French, but I've never known how to express the bolded statement appropriately. I've always just re-worked my sentences to say "*we  *decided to go to the store" and found another place to express that it was me and my friend who were the subject.

I'm curious if there actually is a way to express this in a grammatically correct way in French, or if I should just continue to work around it.

Thank you so much for your time!


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## Lacuzon

Bonsoir,

You can of course use the same construction: Mon ami et moi avons décidé...


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## zeldaj

Thanks! That's simple enough. In your example you used the *nous* form of the verb avoir. Can I also use the *on* form to make it more casual, i.e. _Mon ami et moi a décidé..._?


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## Yendred

zeldaj said:


> _Mon ami et moi a décidé..._



This is incorrect if you omit the "_on_". But casually, you can indeed say:
_Mon ami et moi, *on *a décidé..._


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## janpol

La solution proposée par Lacuzon me semble être la meilleure. Il faut se demander quel pronom personnel unique pourrait remplacer les deux personnes qui constituent le sujet puis accorder le verbe avec ce sujet. Il n'est ni indispensable ni utile de répéter  ce pronom dans la phrase : mon ami et moi ---> nous, ton ami et toi ---> vous, son ami et lui---> ils, ses amies et elle ---> elles, ton ami et toi ---> vous etc...


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