# Pronunciación - know y no



## pcplus

"Know" y "No"

hay alguna diferencia? se dicen de la misma forma? la gente americana-británica las diferencia realmente por el contexto??


Otra duda: La pronunciación de "him" o "her", cuando le antecede una vocal

ejemplo

I want to let her there / You just have to touch him

se pronuncia la "h" aspirada o  se pronuncia simplemente "let er"


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## Reina140

No y know===pronounced the same

I want to let her there / You just have to touch him

you must pronounce the H for both of them

se pronuncia la "h" aspirada o se pronuncia simplemente "let er" [/quote]


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## roxcyn

Para mí, la oración no tiene sentido: I want to let her there.  No entiendo bien.  

Pero las "h" sí aspiran en inglés, pero sí tienes razón, a veces cuando hablas por rápido, se eliden los h.

"Let'er go"  = Let her go

Pero, en mi opinión, debes pronunciar las h.


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## annelizabeth

I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with the second part about the "h" in "her" or "him."  U.S. English speakers don't usually stress "him" and "her" in sentences, so they get less time.  To make that easier, we don't usually say the "h" in connected speech.  Solamente voy a pronunciar la "h" cuando estoy enojada o cuando quiero enfatizar la diferencia entre dos personas que se puede entender como la referencia de "her" or "him." 

<I don't mean HIM (con "h"), I mean HER (con "h").>

Pronouncing the "h" may make you seem strange, angry, or overly careful about your pronunciation.

I'm sorry to disagree, and if I don't sound correct, please let me know.  However, my linguistics training has taught me this, and most English pronunciation books try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him or her.


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## pcplus

roxcyn said:


> Para mí, la oración no tiene sentido: I want to let her there. No entiendo bien.
> 
> Pero las "h" sí aspiran en inglés, pero sí tienes razón, a veces cuando hablas por rápido, se eliden los h.
> 
> "Let'er go" = Let her go
> 
> Pero, en mi opinión, debes pronunciar las h.


it's true that sentence doesn't make any sense, I haven't could think about another better

My new one would be: I wouldn't like to kiss 'er yet

el apóstrofe de inglés coloquial supongo es que se comen la "h" aspirada


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## pcplus

annelizabeth said:


> I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with the second part about the "h" in "her" or "him." U.S. English speakers don't usually stress "him" and "her" in sentences, so they get less time. To make that easier, we don't usually say the "h" in connected speech. Solamente voy a pronunciar la "h" cuando estoy enojada o cuando quiero enfatizar la diferencia entre dos personas que se puede entender como la referencia de "her" or "him."
> 
> <I don't mean HIM (con "h"), I mean HER (con "h").>
> 
> Pronouncing the "h" may make you seem strange, angry, or overly careful about your pronunciation.
> 
> I'm sorry to disagree, and if I don't sound correct, please let me know. However, my linguistics training has taught me this, and most English pronunciation books try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him or her.


but when you say: "Talk to *her* again", you Have to pronounce the "h", I guess


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## roxcyn

pcplus said:


> it's true that sentence doesn't make any sense, I *could't think of* another better *one.*
> 
> My new one would be: I wouldn't like to kiss 'er yet
> 
> el apóstrofe de inglés coloquial supongo es que se comen la "h" aspirada




Sí, muchas veces no se pronuncia la h.


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## annelizabeth

pcplus said:


> but when you say: "Talk to *her* again", you Have to pronounce the "h", I guess


 
It would depend:

Who should I talk to?  = Talk to HER (with the "h" because of emphasis)

What do I need to do? = TALK to her (no emphasis, no "h"= TALK to 'er)


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## gotitadeleche

annelizabeth said:


> I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with the second part about the "h" in "her" or "him."  U.S. English speakers don't usually stress "him" and "her" in sentences, so they get less time.  To make that easier, we don't usually say the "h" in connected speech.  Solamente voy a pronunciar la "h" cuando estoy enojada o cuando quiero enfatizar la diferencia entre dos personas que se puede entender como la referencia de "her" or "him."
> 
> <I don't mean HIM (con "h"), I mean HER (con "h").>
> 
> Pronouncing the "h" may make you seem strange, angry, or overly careful about your pronunciation.
> 
> I'm sorry to disagree, and if I don't sound correct, please let me know.  However, my linguistics training has taught me this, and most English pronunciation books try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him or her.




I have to disagree. I know I pronounce the h, even though it is "smushed" in between the vowels. There is a definite difference to me between "talk to´er" and "talk to(h)er". In rapid speech it may not be detected, but I do pronounce it.


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## mazbook

I have to agree with gotitadeleche.  If you aren't pronouncing the "h" in her or him, you aren't speaking U.S. English.  It should be obvious that this is more easily heard in a stressed, fully enunciated word, "Talk to HER," than it is in an unstressed word, "TALK to her," but it's there, nevertheless.

annelizabeth, I would certainly like to know the names and authors of the "English pronunciation books" that try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him and her.  My Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary certainly disagrees with this (both in print and in the audio version).

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## lunamia

If'n ya don't pronounce dem lettas ya gonna sound like ya ain't got no schoolin'. Dat might be ok in some o' dem places but not all o' dem. So git yo act togeter, dem dare lettas are made for talkin'

Me gusta mucho un libro por Zora Neale Hurston  "Their Eyes Were Watching God" porque tiene buen ejemplos de los dialectos mixtos.


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## boyaco

si, suena "let er" a menos que uno lo diga bien despacio. la "T" tambien cambiaria al sonido de la "R" en espannol, asi que sonaria mas como "lerer".
los ingleses dirian algo como "let ah" y ellos usualmente si dicen la t bien aspirada al final de palabras.
asi es con todas las palabras. Por ejemplo cuando dice uno "should have" rapido, suena "SHUR av"


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## pcplus

mazbook said:


> I have to agree with gotitadeleche. If you aren't pronouncing the "h" in her or him, you aren't speaking U.S. English. It should be obvious that this is more easily heard in a stressed, fully enunciated word, "Talk to HER," than it is in an unstressed word, "TALK to her," but it's there, nevertheless.
> 
> annelizabeth, I would certainly like to know the names and authors of the "English pronunciation books" that try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him and her. My Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary certainly disagrees with this (both in print and in the audio version).
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán


yo creo que es al contrario los U.S Speaker no pronuncian la "h", y los británicos, sí. Lo ha dicho arriba una persona Estadounidense que sólo pronuncia "h" para dar énfasis


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## pcplus

*"with his song"* (palabra por palabra sería "wiz his song", pero seguidas suenan "widh-is-song", no es sonido "z", ya que la union del sonisdo "th" y a continuación "h", crea el sonido de por ejemplo "there", zumbante

"wi*th* *th*is song" -  th + th = dh


con lo cual yo creo que estas 2 palabras si no pronuncias la "h" deben sonar igual


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## gotitadeleche

pcplus said:


> yo creo que es al contrario los U.S Speaker no pronuncian la "h", y los británicos, sí. Lo ha dicho arriba una persona Estadounidense que sólo pronuncia "h" para dar énfasis



pcplus, six natives of US English have responded to this thread, but only one of them said the h is not pronounced, and one other first said it is pronounced, then in a second post changed to not pronounced. That still leaves the majority saying that it is pronounced. I can't speak for all the British accents, but there is a Cockney accent over there that definitely does NOT pronounce the h, and it sounds very different to my ears than the US pronunciation. (think of the old song, I'm 'enery the 8th [Henry VIII] I am, 'enery the 8th I am, I am...)


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## gotitadeleche

pcplus said:


> *"with his song"* (palabra por palabra sería "wiz his song", pero seguidas suenan "widh-is-song", no es sonido "z", ya que la union del sonisdo "th" y a continuación "h", crea el sonido de por ejemplo "there", zumbante
> 
> "wi*th* *th*is song" -  th + th = dh
> 
> 
> con lo cual yo creo que estas 2 palabras si no pronuncias la "h" deben sonar igual



When I pronounce "with his song" the th has a Spanish z sound (as in the word thin), followed by a soft and quick pronounciation of the h in his.

In "with this song" it sound like "withisong". The th has a dh sound (as in the word there)


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## pcplus

thanx for all the doubts, now I know it better

The next one:

I *used to* like him (when I was younger)

I *use to* like him (when he wears a black hat)

si pronuncias palabra-por-palabra "used - to" y "use - to", sonarían diferente, pero la verdad es que creo que esas 2 frases *se pronuncian igual* y se distinguen por el contexto, porque en el grupo de palabras "used o use to" no se puede hacer distinción
Y seguramente más tiempos pasados de ese estilo


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## sound shift

Lo siento, pcplus, pero no se dice "I use to like him (when he wears a black hat)": la frase es gramáticamente incorrecta y no tiene sentido ninguno.
"Solía" = "used to", pero la traducción de "suele" no es "use to", lo cual no existe.


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## pcplus

sound shift said:


> Lo siento, pcplus, pero no se dice "I use to like him (when he wears a black hat)": la frase es gramáticamente incorrecta y no tiene sentido ninguno.
> "Solía" = "used to", pero la traducción de "suele" no es "use to", lo cual no existe.


entonces nunca se utiliza "use to"??

Como se dice "Me suele gustar cuando lleva sombrero negro" ?


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## sound shift

pcplus said:


> entonces nunca se utiliza "use to"??
> 
> Como se dice "Me suele gustar cuando lleva sombrero negro" ?



"Use to" sí que se emplea, pero nunca significa "suele":

*This is the hammer I use to break the bricks *(Esto es el martillo que uso para romper los ladrillos)

Hay varias maneras de decir "Me suele gustar cuando lleva sombrero negro":

1. I quite like it when (s)he wears a black hat;
2. I tend to like it when (s)he wears a black hat; o simplemente
3. I like it when (s)he wears a black hat.


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## mazbook

Hola sound shift (and pcplus):

I think the confusion over "use to" and "used to" (use to + verb = usar + verbo infinitivo, used to + verb = una forma inglés de pretérito) is because the pronunciation of either one is nearly identical in all of the English dialects (that I've heard) because the sound of the final d in "used to" is elided into the t of to to make just one phoneme.  The only way to tell them apart (IF the English is properly pronounced) is that the s in "use to" is pronounced as an English z (a sound that doesn't exist in Spanish) and the s in "used to" is pronounced like a normal s (more-or-less the same as the Spanish —Mexican— s).

Saludos desde Mazatlán


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## gotitadeleche

I totally agree with mazbook and soundshift.


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## pcplus

mazbook said:


> Hola sound shift (and pcplus):
> 
> I think the confusion over "use to" and "used to" (use to + verb = usar + verbo infinitivo, used to + verb = una forma inglés de pretérito) is because the pronunciation of either one is nearly identical in all of the English dialects (that I've heard) because the sound of the final d in "used to" is elided into the t of to to make just one phoneme. The only way to tell them apart (IF the English is properly pronounced) is that the s in "use to" is pronounced as an English z (a sound that doesn't exist in Spanish) and the s in "used to" is pronounced like a normal s (more-or-less the same as the Spanish —Mexican— s).
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán


eso es lo que quería saber!!!
entonces "use to" la "s" zumbante y "used to" la normal

y los americanos distinguen en las conversaciones entre "man" y "men"??
yo creo que no. Supongo que lo harán por el contexto. "hey man" "hey men" sonará igual por un estadounidense de hoy en día


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## tuvir

La traducción de suele = usually


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## gotitadeleche

pcplus said:


> eso es lo que quería saber!!!
> entonces "use to" la "s" zumbante y "used to" la normal
> 
> y los americanos distinguen en las conversaciones entre "man" y "men"??
> yo creo que no. Supongo que lo harán por el contexto. "hey man" "hey men" sonará igual por un estadounidense de hoy en día



Yes, we do distinguish between man and men. The vowels have different sounds. Possibly you can't hear the difference, but we do.


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## annelizabeth

mazbook said:


> I have to agree with gotitadeleche. If you aren't pronouncing the "h" in her or him, you aren't speaking U.S. English. It should be obvious that this is more easily heard in a stressed, fully enunciated word, "Talk to HER," than it is in an unstressed word, "TALK to her," but it's there, nevertheless.
> 
> annelizabeth, I would certainly like to know the names and authors of the "English pronunciation books" that try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him and her. My Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary certainly disagrees with this (both in print and in the audio version).
> 
> Saludos desde Mazatlán


 
I'm sorry that you disagree with me, but I think if you looked at a sound wave of the way you say "talk to her" with emphasis on "talk" there would be no evidence of non-periodic vibration that would indicate that you are saying the "h" even a little bit unless you are speaking ultra-carefully and sounding weird.  

Also, in response to the post about dialects and education, I think that we should be careful not to conflate non-standard dialects with not going to school.  Being a speaker of the group with the pronunciation currently privileged to be standard does not mean that you are intelligent, and speaking a non-standard dialect does not mean that you are uneducated.

As far as pronunciation books go:

(1)  Teaching English Pronunciation, by Joanne Kenworthy, Longman, 1987:  Rules for speech linkage:  "/h/ is often deleted"

(2)Targeting Pronunciation:  The Intonation, Sounds, and Rhythm of American English, by Sue F. Miller, Houghton Mifflin, 2000:  p. 202-3, Putting Words Together:  "Native speakers reduce unstressed structure words in everyday speech by omitting sounds or substituting schwa vowels."  Linked pronouns:  her, his, he, them, him...

(3)  Well Said, Second Edition:  Pronunciation for Clear Communication, by Linda Grant, Heinle & Heinle, 2001:  pp. 86-88, Rhythm in Sentences:  "How do speakers of American English compress function words?  On the next page are some common one-syllable function words and their unstressed pronunciations [him, her to im, er].  These reductions are NOT errors.  If you weaken these words, your speech will sound more natural.  If you stress these words, your speech may sound monotonous."  

Cheers for a happy Monday!


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## pcplus

gotitadeleche said:


> Yes, we do distinguish between man and men. The vowels have different sounds. Possibly you can't hear the difference, but we do.


 
es que es tan diferente la pronunciación americana de la inglesa 

en esta página he escuchado las palabras "as" y "ass".
la pronunciación americana distingue en la s, la primera es zumbante

pero la inglesa ninguna de las 2 la hace zumbante, sólo que ahí parece la entona diferente. Me pregunto si cuando un inglés va a Estados Unidos y dice "as" sonará como "ass" para un americano

-Además otra cosa que hay que tener en cuenta en inglés es que hay formas débiles y fuertes que suenan diferente, por ejemplo "as", tiene 2 sonidos, y más palabras, y luego los "stress"


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## gotitadeleche

pcplus said:


> es que es tan diferente la pronunciación americana de la inglesa
> 
> en esta página he escuchado las palabras "as" y "ass".
> la pronunciación americana distingue en la s, la primera es zumbante
> 
> pero la inglesa ninguna de las 2 la hace zumbante, sólo que ahí parece la entona diferente. Me pregunto si cuando un inglés va a Estados Unidos y dice "as" sonará como "ass" para un americano




Hmmm...I can't say. I have never noticed the difference in pronounciation of that word. When I watch British T.V. (which is fairly often) I have never had any problem thinking they were saying ass.


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## pcplus

gotitadeleche said:


> Hmmm...I can't say. I have never noticed the difference in pronounciation of that word. When I watch British T.V. (which is fairly often) I have never had any problem thinking they were saying ass.


Como Estados Unidos es tan grande. It's just I've heard to Afroamerican people using so much: "man", "hey man", quizá lo pronuncian diferente a como tú lo haces. I just stayed in an American web listening the pronunciation of sound ae, but here is said quite different to them say "hey man wassup?".

Maybe I was talking about a type of pronunciation that certain young people fancies to speak and any famous people in the States, it may be a modern and not-all-correctly American pronunciation, like a slang


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## pcplus

además estoy seguro de que en la música, hay determinados cantantes que hacen los sonidos a su manera, babee por baby y men por man


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## hikesterson

Coincido con annelizabeth y roxcyn, que al decir una frase (con *him* or *her*), a la velocidad normal, sin la "h" pronunciado, no veo una diferencia en el sonido. Puede ser que haya, pero es muy poquito y dudo que alguien se de cuenta. Lo que veo es que se siente diferente, como si exhalo un poquitito al pronunciar la "h," y al no pronunciarlo, falta esta pequeña exhalación, pero no noto una diferencia significativo en el sonido que produce.

Pero tienen razón que, si enfatiza la palabra *him *or *her*, hay que pronunciarlo. 

Sería una buena prueba decir una frase a un angloparlante...como al hablar con una amiga acerca de otra persona decir casualmente "Did you talk to (h)im today?" y no pronunciar la "h." A ver si notan algo diferente. Creo que no.


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## lforestier

"H" is pronounced in US and UK english. It's an aspirated sound so it's barely audible. "H" is not pronounced in Spanish.
Try to pronouce Hector in English and in Spanish and you can hear the difference.


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## Marias-espanol

annelizabeth said:


> I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with the second part about the "h" in "her" or "him." U.S. English speakers don't usually stress "him" and "her" in sentences, so they get less time. To make that easier, we don't usually say the "h" in connected speech. Solamente voy a pronunciar la "h" cuando estoy enojada o cuando quiero enfatizar la diferencia entre dos personas que se puede entender como la referencia de "her" or "him."   Well I think you should say the "h" sound if you don't want to sound uneducated.
> 
> <I don't mean HIM (con "h"), I mean HER (con "h").>
> 
> Pronouncing the "h" may make you seem strange, angry, or overly careful about your pronunciation.  You don't have to say it hard, but you do need to say it.  Some times when we get in a hurry, the "h" is not said, but that doesn't make it correct.  Like yeah instead of yes, it is still slang or not said correctly.
> 
> I'm sorry to disagree, and if I don't sound correct, please let me know. However, my linguistics training has taught me this, and most English pronunciation books try to get students to stop saying the "h" in him or her.  I have never heard anything like that.  Where did you get an English book that says you don't say the "h"?  I know this is true in Spanish, but not in English.


Maria


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## Marias-espanol

pcplus said:


> thanx for all the doubts, now I know it better
> 
> The next one:
> 
> I *used to* like him (when I was younger)  Correct
> 
> I *use to* like him (when he wears a black hat) Incorrect
> 
> si pronuncias palabra-por-palabra "used - to" y "use - to", sonarían diferente, pero la verdad es que creo que esas 2 frases *se pronuncian igual* y se distinguen por el contexto, porque en el grupo de palabras "used o use to" no se puede hacer distinción
> Y seguramente más tiempos pasados de ese estilo


She used to jump rope when she was a child.
To be used to something.
The bathroom is in use.  
out of use;       to be of use;       it's no use (pointless)
I hope this helps.
Maria


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## hikesterson

Annelizabeth, thank you for taking the time to provide the sources you used to support your statements and including the excerpts from those texts as well. Marias-espanol, I invite you to look at her last post for references. Perhaps the issue is not as simple as you thought.

I know I wasn't speaking about ever single word that starts with H, but specifically the words *him* and *her *in the context of a conversational sentence. I think her reply explains things well. 

I do notice that when I say *His *or *Her*, that I do pronounce the *h* sound audibly: As in, "I'm going to *his* house" sounds different to me than "I'm going to *is *house."


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## hikesterson

It's also important, I think to notice how speech changes from the isolated word to how it's pronounced when used in a sentence. It was difficult for me learning Swedish, because letters were dropped off, like "g" at the end of a word, when used in a sentence, but when I asked people how to pronounce the particular word, they would add the "g" sound back on, etc. 

Also, I agree that if you audibly pronounce ever *h* in every word (him, or her especially), you will sound strange in the United States. I do not think it's simply a matter of getting in a hurry and mispronouncing things. Try it out for yourself if you want to test, and let me know what you think.

It's like the 'ing'. Do you really pronounce it fully at the end of words?
or in colloquial speech, does it sound closer to "in" without the g? I don't think it's a matter of educated versus uneducated either, as I notice this across the board. 

Take a word like "cooking" and say it out loud. Then use it in a sentence colloquially and notice how the pronunciation changes. I believe it does change. And I believe it changes even for those who hold bachelor's or master's degrees...and post doc's, in my humble opinion.

Though there are degrees of it... for example if you take a word such as "cooking" and then adjust the "ing" so that it sounds like an "un" sound, I agree that will sound uneducated.


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## sound shift

pcplus said:


> es que es tan diferente la pronunciación americana de la inglesa
> 
> en esta página he escuchado las palabras "as" y "ass".
> la pronunciación americana distingue en la s, la primera es zumbante
> 
> pero la inglesa ninguna de las 2 la hace zumbante, sólo que ahí parece la entona diferente. Me pregunto si cuando un inglés va a Estados Unidos y dice "as" sonará como "ass" para un americano
> 
> -Además otra cosa que hay que tener en cuenta en inglés es que hay formas débiles y fuertes que suenan diferente, por ejemplo "as", tiene 2 sonidos, y más palabras, y luego los "stress"



Sí que los Ingleses pronuncian una "S" zumbante en "as". Yo nunca he vivido un caso en que hubo confusión entre "as" y "ass".


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## pcplus

sound shift said:


> Sí que los Ingleses pronuncian una "S" zumbante en "as". Yo nunca he vivido un caso en que hubo confusión entre "as" y "ass".


entonces si se pronuncian igual será por el contexto

y qué opinas sobre lo que he dicho ariba de las canciones y las pronunciaciones determinadas de las palabras?

#29 and #30 posts


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## sound shift

pcplus said:


> entonces si se pronuncian igual será por el contexto


No, no hay ningún contexto en el que "as" y "ass" se pronuncian igual.


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## pcplus

sound shift said:


> No, no hay ningún contexto en el que "as" y "ass" se pronuncian igual.


entonces as y ass se pronuncian igual??

quería decir que para saber que palabra de las 2 dice una persona, bastará por el contexto


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## pcplus

http://download.yousendit.com/FE17046866662728

*I wanna know If I was saying it right, maybe I make mistakes*

Now I’m gonna start sayin’ man.
This is a weird man, hey man! Wassup?
Or like the British say “He’s a Man”

But now I would like to say men.
You all are men, these are men, like Boyz II men. And quickly said: “This is a bathroom for men you know. That’s all folks
---
As if you keep on doing that thing, you can get your ass kicked my friend
 
http://download.yousendit.com/E9CC320F2F5E11BF


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## Pannadol

Hey pcplus : I'm having trouble downloading the first file.. I'll keep trying but perhaps you should host it on another site?

For the second track ((as)), you seem to get some words the wrong way around or skip over the first few words.. if I had heard it without the words in front of me, I would only have understood "you can get your ass kicked my friend".


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## pcplus

Now I'm going to say the two paragraphs in only one.

In the second there's a mistake. I say "as you keep on...", now it has more sense.

man and men, as and ass http://download.yousendit.com/D8785D591C9571F8
*****
http://download.yousendit.com/B075C61F7CA1407D


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