# אבל vs. אלא



## Michali245

How are אלא and אבל used differently. I know they both mean but. I think אלא is generally use when something is all negative but one positive-- Like "I have to work everyday, but wednesday" can any one clarify? 
Thanks!
Michal


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## Tamar

אני לא עובדת בחנות עצמה, אלא במשרד.
In english that would be: I dont work in shop itself, but at the office. using אבל here wouldnt work.  
I think after אבל there has to be a sentence, not noun phrase, but maybe someone here could tell us more about that (and here's a good sentence: אני חושבת שאחרי אבל צריך לבוא משפט שלם ולא צירוף שמני, *אבל* אולי מישהו יוכל להסביר יותר טוב..)

as for the sentece you wrote, 'but' here would beמלבד or  חוץ מ..
"אני עובדת כל יום מלבד יום רביעי"
"אני עובדת כל יום חוץ מיום רביעי"


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## לכאורה

The root of the problem here is that "but" has many meanings. See, for example:
dictionary.reference.com/browse/but
(Copy and paste, I am not allowed to add links)
I think only #4 there can be translated to "אלא".

The way I see it, "אבל" is like "however". If you can replace the "but" with "however" in English, you use "אבל" in Hebrew.
"אלא" is more like you described - "when something is all negative but one positive", however the example you gave was the opposite - all positive but one negative ("I work everyday but Wednesday"). 
Some examples for "אלא":
"It's not my shift today, but David's" - "זו לא המשמרת שלי היום, אלא של דוד"
"I am not working today, but on Wednesday" - "אני לא עובד היום, אלא ביום רביעי"
"There is joy in nothing but in wine" - "אין שמחה אלא ביין"
(The last example is in more ancient Hebrew, in modern Hebrew it's more like "אין שמחה בדבר מלבד ביין")

HTH


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## אדם

Out of curiousity how is that pronounced? Is it a'lo or a'le?


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## tFighterPilot

It's pronounced eLA


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## Tamar

it's pronounced: Ela .stress on first syllable (devided as /e.la/ )


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## tFighterPilot

Tamar said:


> it's pronounced: Ela .stress on first syllable (devided as /e.la/ )


No, stress on the second syllable, else it would be the name Ella.


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## eshcar

tFighterPilot said:


> No, stress on the second syllable, else it would be the name Ella.


 
I don't know if you're basing your statement on "official" rules of pronunciation, but IMHO the average person on the street would never stress the second syllable, but the first (yes, just like the name Ella).


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## לכאורה

First of all, the fact that two words will be pronounced the same is never a reason to change the stressing. For example, Camel in hebrew is gaMAL גמל. weaned is also gaMAL, and so is "payed back". We won't call camel "GAmal" just to distinguish between them. There are Mishkalim משקלים for these words...

However, in our specific case, it's actually the *exact opposite *of what tFighterPilot said. the name Ella (Actually, I see no reason to spell it Ella, but Ela. There is no Dagesh דגש in the ל of אלה) is wrongly pronounced with the stress on the first syllable. It should be eLA. 
Either if you go after the biblical source of this name (actually a male's name for few one of them is one of Caleb's sons, appears in 1 Chronicles 4, 15 - דברי הימים א' פרק ד' פסוק ט"ו) and there the stress is on the second syllable (you can see it in the cantillation notes - טעמי המקרא - for example here: mechon-mamre.org/c/ct/c25a04.htm). 
(If you want more sources of people name Ela let me know, I will post them)
Or if you go for "Emek Ha'eLA" - also appears in the bible (1 Samuel 17, 1. שמואל א' פרק י"ז פסוק א) and the stress is on the second syllable - see mechon-mamre.org/c/ct/c08a17.htm. Think about the tree eLA, you will also agree that no one calls the tree Ela, but eLA - right?
Even if you go to a more modern meaning, as the feminine form of "El" - God, it will also be eLA. (Like Shed-sheDA שד-שדה, El-eLA אל-אלה).

On the other hand, the word אלא is stressing the first syllable EL-la. It's actually form Aramic ארמית. It's in the same Mishkal as SHEM-ma שֶׁמָּא. Do you say shem-MA? אֶלָּא is the same.

I hope this helps and is not too long...


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## Flaminius

לכאורה said:


> On the other hand, the word אלא is stressing the first syllable EL-la. It's actually form Aramic ארמית. It's in the same Mishkal as shem-MA שֶׁמָּא. Do you say SHEM-ma? אֶלָּא is the same.


Sorry but I am not sure if I understand you.  Are you saying אלא should be pronounced *el*la after shem-MA, which belong to the same pattern (mishkal)?  I always thought words belonging to the same pattern have the same stress position.


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## לכאורה

OOOPS....
I just did a silly typing mistake.
It's of course SHEM-ma שֶׁמָּא and EL-la אֶלָּא. both have stressing in the first syllable. Meaning, it should be pronounced in מלעיל and not מלרע. 

Thanks Flaminius for this important correction.

I had just fixed my original post, so others won't be confused...

Toda,
Zvika


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## girloncrack

לכאורה said:


> "It's not my shift today, but David's" - "זו לא המשמרת שלי היום, אלא של דוד"
> "I am not working today, but on Wednesday" - "אני לא עובד היום, אלא ביום רביעי"
> "There is joy in nothing but in wine" - "אין שמחה אלא ביין"
> (The last example is in more ancient Hebrew, in modern Hebrew it's more like "אין שמחה בדבר מלבד ביין")
> 
> HTH


 
It sounds like אלא can be translated to "rather", as in "I am not working today, but rather on Wednesday", "It is not my shift today, but rather David's".

In the third instance, where אלא is used more like "except", is it always more common to use צלבד?  If so, the rule may be easily remembered as:
אבל = but
אלא = rather
מלבד = except


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## Dguterman

girloncrack said:


> It sounds like אלא can be translated to "rather", as in "I am not working today, but rather on Wednesday", "It is not my shift today, but rather David's".
> 
> In the third instance, where אלא is used more like "except", is it always more common to use צלבד?  If so, the rule may be easily remembered as:
> אבל = but
> אלא = rather
> מלבד = except



A timely reference:

אין לנו רשות להשתמש בהם אלא לראותם  בלבד, (of the Chanukah candles) that is, "We haven't the right to use them, only to look at them..." in the prayer הנרות הללו.

Here, "only" or "rather".


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