# Al-Andalus, Ummayad Emirate, Abbasid Caliphate, emir, khalifah, banu ummaya



## Csatádi

Hi!
I need some help.
Can you tell me the exact Arabic name in Latin letters of the early Al-Andalus country? I search the ancient name not the modern definitions of historians. Or the Al-Andalus name is correct as a country name?

In English it is Ummayad Emirate but I need the arabic form even it is not an emirate word by word.

Also I search the Arabic name of the Abbasid Caliphate.

Also need the the old form of Emir if it is other than *Amir* or *Ameer. *
The Khalīfah is the same than in the 9th-10th centuries?

I read in Wikipedia Ummayad dynasty is _banū umayya._
The Abbasid is Abbāsīyūn. So I thought something similar.

Thank you and have a nice day!


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## cherine

Hi Csatádi and welcome to the forum.
These are too many questions, I think the moderator will have to split the thread. Please try, next time, to put each different question in a separate thread.
Now I'll try to answer your question the best I can.


Can you tell me the exact Arabic name in Latin letters of the early Al-Andalus country? I search the ancient name not the modern definitions of historians. Or the Al-Andalus name is correct as a country name?
When the Arabs first got to Spain they called it al-Andalus, this name used to refer to the whole Spanish and Portuguese lands ruled by the Arabs, and not only the actual or modern region of Andalucia.

In English it is Ummayad Emirate but I need the arabic form even it is not an emirate word by word.
The old Arab states were not emirates but caliphate, and sometimes dawla "State" , so it was the ummayad caliphate الخلافة الأموية al-khilaafa al-umaweyya, or ad-dawla al-umaweyya الدولة الأموية

Also I search the Arabic name of the Abbasid Caliphate.
al-khilaafa al-3abaasiyya الخلافة العباسية

Also need the the old form of Emir if it is other than *Amir* or *Ameer. *
It's amir أمير and the expression used was "amiru'l-mu2mineen" أمير المؤمنين or khalipha.

The Khalīfah is the same than in the 9th-10th centuries?
I didn't very much understand this, but khalifa was the title of the Muslim ruler since the first Muslim khalifa (Abu Bakr as-Siddiq) untill maybe the 19th century.

I read in Wikipedia Ummayad dynasty is _banū umayya._
The Abbasid is Abbāsīyūn. So I thought something similar.
we say banu umayya and al-umawiyyun الأمويون as we say banu'l-Abbas and al-Abbaasiyyun العباسيون، بنو العباس


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## elroy

Yes, Csatadi.  Please ask your questions in separate threads, one question per thread.  Also, choose meaningful titles for each.

And welcome to the forums from me, too.


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## Csatádi

Sorry.
Thank you for the very quick answers.
"al-khilaafa al-3abaasiyya"
What is that 3 in the name? It is strange. I need the name for English usage. Can I simply skip this number?
And the same with "amiru'l-mu2mineen".

Khalīfah - khalipha
Which is the more correct form? I need the native one.

"The old Arab states were not emirates but caliphate."
As I know it was in the early times. Later became caliphate. This quote is from Wikipedia but my historic atlas signs both the emirate and later the caliphate.

The Emirate and Caliphate of Córdoba
When the Umayyad dynasty gave way to the Abbasid in 750, Abd-ar-Rahman I (later titled Al-Dāakhil), an Umayyad exile, established himself as the Emir of Córdoba in 756, ousting Yusuf al-Fihri. Over a thirty-year reign, he established his rule over the whole of al-Andalus, overcoming partisans both of the al-Fihri family and of the Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad, whose title he refused to acknowledge. For the next century and a half, his descendants continued as Emirs of Córdoba, with nominal control over the rest of al-Andalus (and sometimes parts of western North Africa) but with real control, particularly over the marches along the Christian border, varying greatly depending on the competence of the individual Emir. Indeed, Abdallah ibn Muhammad, who was Emir around 900, had very little control beyond the area immediately around Córdoba.
<text truncated due to copyright infringement>

Would you help me in other cases? 
(Elroy, I dont want to create another topic. It seems to me like spamming. Please rename it to 'Arab history in the 9th century' or similar if you have problems with the theme of the topic. I collect certain facts from this period.)

Was there a certain title for the heirs of the emirs and caliphs? I think on the times in which the emir is living yet.
If there was please let me know also the most native expression (but in Latin letters, please. )


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## elroy

Csatádi said:
			
		

> (Elroy, I dont want to create another topic. It seems to me like spamming. Please rename it to 'Arab history in the 9th century' or similar if you have problems with the theme of the topic. I collect certain facts from this period.)


 
I'm not sure I understand your worries/request.  What exactly would constitute spamming?  And what do you mean by "creating another topic"?  Why do you want a new title?

By the way, according to the rules of the forums,



> No web pages or copyrighted or plagiarized content may be inserted into WordReference posts. Minor fair use excerpts from dictionaries such as a definition/translation or two is permitted. Other quotes of less than one paragraph (4 sentences) are permitted as well. All other forms of inserted content from press releases, newsletters, web pages, or any other copyrighted content placed into messages will be removed without exception. A link to the content is acceptable and appropriate.


_(rule 14)_

Hence my reducing of your quoted text to 4 sentences.


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## cherine

the 3 is the internet common usage to transliterate the Arabic letter "ayn" ع , the 2 is symbol for hamza, so if you're writing an academic paper you should simply skip them.



			
				Csatádi said:
			
		

> Khalīfah - khalipha
> Which is the more correct form? I need the native one.



There's no "native" form of an English transliteration of a non-English word. You'll just need to check in different references for the most common used form. The first one is of course the more "academic".




			
				Csatádi said:
			
		

> "The old Arab states were not emirates but caliphate." As I know it was in the early times. Later became caliphate.


Actually, it's the other way round : the first title of a Muslim/Arab ruler was "khalipha". A Caliphate is bigger than an emirate. If you get back to the Wikipedia's text you'll find that Abd-ar-Rahman al-Dāakhil was first an Emir, for an emirate is "smaller" then a caliphate. Then Abd-ar-Rahman III, «restored Ummayad power throughout al-Andalus but extended it into western North Africa as well. In 929 he proclaimed himself Caliph, *elevating the emirate *to a position competing in prestige not only with the Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad».
The Army generals were also called emirs.




			
				Csatádi said:
			
		

> Was there a certain title for the heirs of the emirs and caliphs? I think on the times in which the emir is living yet.


He's called "waleyy al-3ahd" ولى العهد I don't remember the English word for it, I think it's something like "crown prince" or something; the person who's supposed to become king (or emir, or khaliphah) after the actual one dies.




> Would you help me in other cases?


Sure, but please don't worry about starting a new thread, it's not spamming it's order (nizam).
Thank you


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## Csatádi

cherine,
thank you your infos were very useful

So if I understand everything right I can use these forms:
Ummayad Emirate = ad-dawla al-umaweyya
Abbaside Caliphate = al-khilaafa al-abaasiyya
Caliph = khalipha
Emir = amir
Heir of the emir or caliph = waleyy al-ahd

I worry a little about skipping the capital letters. Sometimes you used them sometimes not. I would write at least the dynasty names in capitals.


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## cherine

Csatádi said:
			
		

> So if I understand everything right I can use these forms:
> Ummayad Emirate State = ad-dawla al-umaweyya (dawla is State, Emirate is Imara in Arabic, with the first (a) as long vowel)
> Abbaside Caliphate = al-khilaafa al-abaasiyya
> Caliph = khalipha
> Emir = amir
> Heir of the emir or caliph = waleyy al-ahd
> 
> I worry a little about skipping the capital letters. Sometimes you used them sometimes not. I would write at least the dynasty names in capitals.


Sorry for the trouble I gave you with the capital letters  I just sometimes forget them.
Of course you should write IN ENGLISH following the writing rules of this language, and I'm sure you know them very well. One thing I'm sure of is that the "al" is always written in small letters except in the begining of sentences.


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## Csatádi

Then the Umayyad Emirate would be Al-Imara al-Umaweyya? (I deal with the earlier period.)


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## cherine

Technically speaking: yes. Though I don't remember hearing/reading this expression before


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## elroy

Shouldn't it be "Umaw*i*yya(h)" in standard Arabic?


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## cherine

This also is true Elroy, but remember the "eternel" problem of English transliteration of Arabic words. There are different trends, hence different possibilities of transliteration of the same word.
So Umawiyya and Umaweyya are both correct -and that's as far as I know.


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## cuchuflete

> When the Arabs first got to Spain they called it al-Andalus, this name used to refer to the whole Spanish and Portuguese lands ruled by the Arabs, and not only the actual or modern region of Andalucia.


When "the Arabs got to Spain" they were a minority of the group that settled and ruled al-Andalus.  The military leadership was Arab, but the bulk of the people were Berbers, not Arabs. The leadership remained Arab after the conquest, but with so much mixing of blood lines among Berbers, Arabs, and prior inhabitants, that to refer to the entire Caliphate as Arab may be misleading.


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## elroy

cherine said:
			
		

> This also is true Elroy, but remember the "eternel" problem of English transliteration of Arabic words. There are different trends, hence different possibilities of transliteration of the same word.
> So Umawiyya and Umaweyya are both correct -and that's as far as I know.


 
As far as I know, standard Arabic does not have the vowel sound "e" but only "i."  Colloquial Arabic is a different story altogether.


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## ayed

I may correct these names and title as follows:
 
#..Ummayad Emirate =al-Dawlah al-Umawiyyah(pronounced as, ad.dawlah al.uma.weyyah).It might be called "al-Emarah al-Umawiyyah"
#..Abbaside Caliphate =al-Khilafah al-Abbasiyyah(pronounced as.al-.Khi.lafah, al.Abba.siyyah)
#..Emir = amir(I prefer .Ameer)
#..Wazeer(Minister)
 
Have good times
Ayed's regards


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## cherine

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> When "the Arabs got to Spain" they were a minority of the group that settled and ruled al-Andalus. The military leadership was Arab, but the bulk of the people were Berbers, not Arabs. The leadership remained Arab after the conquest, but with so much mixing of blood lines among Berbers, Arabs, and prior inhabitants, that to refer to the entire Caliphate as Arab may be misleading.


Yes Cuchu, you're very right. Sorry, my mistake. They should be called Muslims, not Arabs. Indeed Berbers were the larger group, even the great army "general" Tarik Ibn Ziyad was a Berber, not an Arab.


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## cherine

elroy said:
			
		

> As far as I know, standard Arabic does not have the vowel sound "e" but only "i." Colloquial Arabic is a different story altogether.


Yes Elroy, you too are right  (day of Cherine's big mistakes)
I revised a list I have of Arabic transliteration symbols. Indeed the (e) is not used. it's always an (i), the long vowel has a mark above (ī) , same goes with all three long vowels (a, i, u)

Sorry guys, please forgive my stupid and silly mistakes, I hope I didn't mislead anyone.


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## Fernando

My two cents: Spanish TRADITIONAL transliterations of 

Ummayad Emirate =Emirato Omeya
Abbaside Caliphate =Califato Abasida/abasí
Wazeer(Minister) = Visir


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## Csatádi

So are these correct this way?
Ummayad Emirate = al-Imarah al-Umawiyyah
Abbaside Caliphate = al-Khilafah al-Abbasiyyah
Caliph = Khalipha
Emir = Amir
Heir of the emir or caliph = Waliyy al-Ahd
Minister = Wazir
Are they ok now?
I find 'Waleyy al-Ahd' a little strange now. I try a search on Google with 'Waliyy al-Ahd' and found 13 results, with 'Waleyy al-Ahd' 0 results and 'Waliy al-Ahd' with 22 results.


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## cherine

Hi,​Yes, they are right. Here I'm adding -in blue- the "opinion" of a very respected scholar, Hans Wehr. Hope this time the answer is very helpful :

Ummayad (Ommiad) Emirate = al-Imarah (al-imāra) al-Umawiyyah (umawiyya)
Abbaside Caliphate = al-Khilafah (al-khilāfa) al-Abbasiyyah (‘abbāsiyya)
Caliph = Khalipha - khalīfa
Emir = Amir - amīr
Heir of the emir or caliph (successor to the throne, heir apparent, crown prince) = Waliyy al-Ahd – walīy al-‘ahd
Minister - vizier = Wazir - wazīr

As for the differences in the Google search, they're because the (e) is not used in "academic transliteration" as we said. the difference in the result is due to the difference in the "stressing" of the letter (y).


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## cherine

And thank you Fernando for the Spanish contribution


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## Csatádi

Thanks to everybody.
Cherine, thanks, I will use Hans Wehr's version.


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## Outsider

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> When "the Arabs got to Spain" they were a minority of the group that settled and ruled al-Andalus.  The military leadership was Arab, but the bulk of the people were Berbers, not Arabs. The leadership remained Arab after the conquest, but with so much mixing of blood lines among Berbers, Arabs, and prior inhabitants, that to refer to the entire Caliphate as Arab may be misleading.


The word "Arab" can have several meanings (a bit like "American" ). Culturally, I suppose you could say that Tariq's group initiated Arabic rule in the Peninsula.



			
				elroy said:
			
		

> As far as I know, standard Arabic does not have the vowel sound "e" but only "i."  Colloquial Arabic is a different story altogether.


I'm partial to the transliteration with "i" myself, but I will note that the letter "e" can be read _, namely in English._


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## elroy

Outsider said:
			
		

> I'm partial to the transliteration with "i" myself, but I will note that the letter "e" can be read _, namely in English._


_

True enough, but the most likely pronunciation in this case would be a short "e" (as in "red"). Similarly, one would not pronounce the "i" long (as in "bike")._


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