# hélas !



## blowe46

_Nous avons un test surprise en Francais, __hélas!

_what does _hélas _indicate? is it just a polite interjection signifying displeasure?


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## SwissPete

The English equivalent, I believe, is _alas_.


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## Nil-the-Frogg

As far as I know, it is the same as "Alas!" in English.


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## Franglais1969

SwissPete said:


> The English equivalent, I believe, is _alas_.


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## blowe46

Alas is not a common expression in modern English. Very rarely is it employed as frequently as _hélas. 
_


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## Franglais1969

Maybe not in North America, but in the UK it is frequently used.


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## emma42

I beg to differ.  I would not say "Alas" is frequently used in the UK.

As a translation, I would suggest "More's the pity", "Unfortunately", "to my chagrin", "sod it" (low register, but not really vulgar).

Actually, I don't really like any of my translations above, but I can't think of anything better at the moment!


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## Danski

'Sod it' may be commonly used but what it actually implies is certainly very rude!!


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## Franglais1969

Danski said:


> 'Sod it' may be commonly used but what it actually implies is certainly very rude!!



I concur.

Well if the circles you travel in think "alas" is old-fashioned, then the best alternative I am able to suggest is "unfortunately."

Alas, I can think of nothing better.


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## emma42

Danski said:


> 'Sod it' may be commonly used but what it actually implies is certainly very rude!!



Firstly, I don't actually think sodomy is "rude" and, secondly, its meaning as a mildly vulgar expletive has come so far from the root as to now be unrelated, as is the case with many similar phrases.  Who do you know who would really relate "Sod it!" to sodomy?  I know no one.


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## emma42

Franglais1969 said:


> I concur.
> 
> Well if the circles you travel in think "alas" is old-fashioned, then the best alternative I am able to suggest is "unfortunately."
> 
> Alas, I can think of nothing better.



Oh, come off it.  It's not rude at all.  It's a common expression in the UK and now has nothing to do with sodomy.


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## blowe46

"sod it" is never used in North America--especially in Canada. Does anyone think Oh well is a good translation?


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## Franglais1969

emma42 said:


> Oh, come off it.  It's not rude at all.  It's a common expression in the UK and now has nothing to do with sodomy.



All I shall say is that I certainly would not use that term in polite company, (in fact I wouldn't use it at all).

Moreover, I don't think it is  a viable translation for *hélas*.


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## emma42

Yes, I didn't think it would be used in North America.  Thanks for clarifying, blowe.  

I think "Oh well" is a good suggestion, although it suggests resignation, whereas "hélas" doesn't necessarily have that.  Your suggestion is as good, if not better, than any of my tries, I think!


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## Danski

emma42 said:


> I don't actually think sodomy is "rude"



Emma, I salute you. That's the funniest thing I've ever read on here. I'm actually laughing out loud.

I totally see your point about it being part of acceptable English and people not making the association. It's just that some people might make that connection, and I think if English is not your first language you can sometimes find yourself with less licence to get away with stuff like that.

As you like! Either way, you're a comedy genius!


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## emma42

Thank you Danski!  It is quite funny, isn't it?!  How perceptive of you to notice that I am, indeed, a comedy genius.

I do agree that it is a somewhat loose translation, to say the least.


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## blowe46

There are varying degrees of rudeness. I know some people who find the "pissed off" to be offensive. It varies.


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## Danski

Call me a prude, but sodomy is quite rude, blowe46.

That kinda rhymes.


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## blowe46

it certainly wouldn't be rude in North America--you can say it with great pleasure. I wouldn't recommend it as a translation of Helas--no one would understand you.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Would it be possible to use "so bad" in blowe46 context?


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## broglet

To get back to the original question, in BE we might say, "Oh dear! We're having a surprise French test". "Oh no!" would be equally good.

You _could _say "Alas!" or "Woe is me!" but then people would think you were either a vicar or a reincarnated William Shakespeare.

And if you wanted to be crude (not rude) you might say "Shit!" "Fuck!" or "Damn!" all of which are much coarser than "hélas"


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## KaRiNe_Fr

broglet said:


> [...] You _could _say "Alas!" or "Woe is me!" but then people would wonder if you were a reincarnated William Shakespeare.


Good to know!


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## Benjix

broglet said:


> You _could _say "Alas!" or "Woe is me!" but then people would think you were either a vicar or a reincarnated William Shakespeare.



How do you pronounce "Woe" ? as "who" or ... ?


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## Franglais1969

Benjix said:


> How do you pronounce "Woe" ? as "who" or ... ?



No it is pronouced with a long O, like foe or hoe.


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## Benjix

OK, thank you


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## Nicomon

emma42 said:


> I think "Oh well" is a good suggestion, although it suggests resignation, whereas "hélas" doesn't necessarily have that. Your suggestion is as good, if not better, than any of my tries, I think!


 
I agree that "Oh well" suggests resignation, whereas _hélas_ doesn't. How about "*sadly*"?


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## lela105

Alas literally means "unfortunate (us)", so I guess a modern English equivalent would be "we're screwed!" (aka, we're unfortunate, woe to us): 
"We have a pop quiz in French, we're screwed!"


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## lela105

I'm sorry, I should have made it clear that I'm proposing an American English modern equivalent


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## emma42

I think in BE "We're screwed" would imply that "we" will definitely fail/do badly, whereas "Hélas" suggests worry or disappointment at the thought of the test, but not necessarily a certainty of failure.  An AE/BE difference perhaps?


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## lela105

Perhaps in some contexts it means we will definantly fail, but I most commonly hear it used as a kind of synonym for a sarcastic "oh great". 
Which makes me think...maybe a sarcastic "oh great" is a good modern equivalent for "alas", which is kind of archaic in English.
My Greek class has this same problem translating the Greek word for "alas" and we can never come to a reasonable solution.


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## icecreamsoldier

I agree with broglet, I'd go with 'Oh no!' or 'Oh dear' in more formal contexts, but more informally I'd prefer 'Oh man!' or 'Dammit!' than some of the above suggestions.


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## emma42

Thanks, lela.  Yes, "great" (with a groan) could work.


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## tilt

emma42 said:


> I beg to differ.  I would not say "Alas" is frequently used in the UK.
> 
> As a translation, I would suggest "More's the pity", "Unfortunately", "to my chagrin", "sod it" (low register, but not really vulgar).
> 
> Actually, I don't really like any of my translations above, but I can't think of anything better at the moment!


_Unfortunately _doesn't sound bad to me, because a good equivalent of _hélas _in French is _malheureusement_.


I'm with you, Emma! I'd say _sodomy _sounds rude only to people who think _sex _is rude too! 
And what makes me laughing out loud is Franglais1969 speaking of _the circles you travel in_ in such a context...


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## emma42

In that case, I definitely vote for "unfortunately".  Thanks, tilt.


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## Nicomon

I was under the impression that _"sadly" _(as I suggested above) was (more or less) a synonym of "_unfortunately"_. I guess I was wrong.

Robert & Collins suggests both as translations of _hélas_... but contexts are different. Another suggestion is: "I'm afraid so".

PS: as for "oh great!" there is always the same sarcastic "youpi/bravo/merveilleux!"


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## icecreamsoldier

'_sadly_' implique la tristesse plutôt que l'ennui.
'_I'm afraid so_' est une réponse affirmative comme 'hélas, oui'
sinon t'as raison


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## tilt

Nicomon said:


> I was under the impression that _"sadly" _(as I suggested above) was (more or less) a synonym of "_unfortunately"_. I guess I was wrong.


I guess there's the same difference between sadly (_tristement_) and unfortunately (_malheureusement_) in English as in French.


> Robert & Collins suggests both as translations of _hélas_... but contexts are different. Another suggestion is: "I'm afraid so".


_I'm afraid so_ can be translated very literally in a rather formal _Je le crains_.


> PS:  as for "oh great!"  there is always the same sarcastic  "youppi/bravo/merveilleux!"


Yes, or _Super!
_(but I personnaly would write_ you*p*i)

_


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## Harmione

icecreamsoldier said:


> I agree with broglet, I'd go with 'Oh no!' or 'Oh dear' in more formal contexts, but more informally I'd prefer 'Oh man!' or 'Dammit!' than some of the above suggestions.



As far as I know, *dammit *doesn't convey the same emotion as *hélas*, qui peut par exemple exprimer la tristesse. *Hélas* isn't crude, not even familiar, for me *unfortunately *remains the best equivalent.


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## Nicomon

tilt said:


> I guess there's the same difference between sadly (_tristement_) and unfortunately (_malheureusement_) in English as in French. _I'm afraid so_ can be translated very literally in a rather formal _Je le crains_.
> Yes, or _Super!_
> (but I personnaly would write_ you*p*i)_


 
Merci tilt (et icecream aussi). Évidemment, un examen n'a rien de triste. Mais à mon avis, _hélas_ est plus souvent utilisé dans un contexte triste, justement. 

_On a un examen d'anglais demain? (Hélas oui) je le crains! Do we have a French test tomorrow? I'm afraid so!..._ ça marche, je crois.

J'avais oublié _Super!_ ... et j'ai corrigé youpi.

In a nutshell, I personally wouldn't say _hélas!_ in this exam context. And most expressions that were suggested do not translate _hélas! _I agree entirely that the closest equivalent (unless the context is indeed sad) is _unfortunately_. 

Now for colloquial, another that comes to mind is "bummer!".


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## emma42

Yes, I like "bummer!" (we're sailing dangerously close to "sod it", I'm afraid!)

Another suggestion:  "Oh, god, we're having a surprise French test".  Of course, this might be offensive to some people, but it's a very common expression in BE.


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## french4beth

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Would it be possible to use "so bad" in blowe46 context?


 Hi Karine,

"Too bad" might be a better alternative - it's not an exact translation, but here in the States you'd probably only see "Alas" in formal written English (literary context)... for some examples, you could check out this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alas. 

Another possibility - if you say it with a sarcastic tone: "Oh, great, ..." (colloquial).


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Salut,



french4beth said:


> [...] "Too bad" [...] "Alas" in formal written English (literary context) [...] with a sarcastic tone: "Oh, great, ..." (colloquial).


Merci à toi aussi Beth ! 
(je parie que tu n'avais pas vu la page 2, non ? )


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