# Hindi/Hindustani/Urdu: Ka Karoon Sajni Aye Na Balam



## Kahaani

Dear friends,

Since my discovery Hindustani poetry in the forms of ghazals, thumri, etc. I've been fascinated by them. It is such a poetic, beautiful register of Hindi/Urdu. 

My question(s) concern(s) the song; K_a Karoon Sajni Aaye Na Baalam,_ by Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. 

I'd transliterate the title into 'proper' Hindi/Urdu as: _Kyaa (maiN) karooN sajnii; baalam naa aaye_. And translate it as;_ O [Sajnii], since my lover did not come, what am I to do? 
_
a. Is this transliteration and translation correct?
b. Is _baal-am _a contraction of a Persian noun with a possesive pronoun in a Persian construction? If so, what does_ baal _mean in Persian? 
c. What is the definition of _sajnii_?

Thank you!


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## marrish

You sit good on the track. No Persian origin constructions here. saj(j)anii is a "good soul " of the female gender thus a female friend who is being addressed.


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## mundiya

Since the conversation seems to have been in Dutch, I don't know if all of your questions have been answered, Kahaani jii.  So, I will just make a few points.  You have the correct definition of "baalam", but it's not of Persian origin.  

In addition, you seem to have been thinking of Hindustani classical music when choosing the language name for thread title.  Ghazals are in Urdu.  Thumriis are in Hindi dialects: usually Braj, sometimes Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Khariboli or others.  You can find the most common definition and usage of Hindustani language here: Hindustani. We generally use Hindi and Urdu as language names instead.


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## Kahaani

Thank you very much! I will keep that in mind.


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## colognial

mundiya said:


> You have the correct definition of "baalam", but it's not of Persian origin.



Hi, mundiya. Could you please share the meaning of _baalam_? Same request about the word _karoon_. Thank you.


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## eskandar

^ _baalam_:





			
				Platts dictionary said:
			
		

> H بالم बालम bālam [S. वल्लभ], 'Desired, beloved,' &c.], s.m. Lover, beloved person, sweetheart; husband;—a kind of cloth


_karooN_ (کروں): 'I do' in the subjunctive, as in کا \ کیا کروں _kaa/kyaa *karooN*?_ = What should *I do*? = چه *کنم*؟


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## colognial

eskandar said:


> ^ _baalam_:
> _karooN_ (کروں): 'I do' in the subjunctive, as in کا \ کیا کروں _kaa/kyaa *karooN*?_ = What should *I do*? = چه *کنم*؟



Thank you very much, eskandar. It is a strange coincidence that these words or words very similar to them mean things in Persian. Kaaroon (not karoon) is the name of a river in Iran, and balam (not baalam, granted) means raft, small row boat. So not having any Hindi/urdu and having learned the meaning of the whole phrase from the first post here, I just could not help wondering if the poet had intended to provide two possible meanings: the first one, what the phrase really means,i.e. "what am I to do since my lover is not here" and the second, "what is the Kaaroon (the river) to do since the balam (raft) has not come to sail along it", or some such meaning. Of course now I understand that karoon is not a noun but a verb.


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## Kahaani

Concerning _sajj(a)nii_: how or where did you find 'soul' as one of its meanings?

Platts:
2. سجني सज्जनी sajjanī, सजनी sajanī, sajnī : (page  643) adj. Pure, clear.سجني सज्जनी sajjanī, सजनी sajanī, sajnī 
H 
سجني सज्जनी _sajjanī_, *सजनी* _sajanī_, _sajnī_ [S. सज्जन+इका], s.f. A virtuous woman; a respectable woman; a mistress, sweetheart; a female friend (syn. _sahelī_).

No mention of 'soul' anywhere. It would make sense though, because of the_ -j(a)n-_ element in it. I believe this is can be translated as soul sometimes in both Hindi/Urdu and Persian, right? Thus, what is the etmyology of_ sajjnii_? 

Thank you,

Edit: Funny coincidence Colognial! You could write a poem yourself with those meanings!​


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## Qureshpor

Here is an example of the word "sajnii" in an Urdu Ghazal.

انشا جی اُٹھو اب کوچ کرو اِس شہر میں جی کو لگانا کیا
وحشی کو سُکوں سے کیا مطلب، جوگی کا نگر میں ٹھکانا کیا

شب بیتی چاند بھی ڈُوب چلا، زنجیر پڑی دروازے میں
کیوں دیر گئے گھر آئے ہو، سجنی سے کرو گے بہانہ کیا 

Inshaa Jii uTho ab kuuch karo, is shahr meN jii ko lagaanaa kyaa 
vahshii ko sukuuN se kyaa matlab, jogii kaa nagar meN Thikaanaa kyaa

shab biitii chaaNd bhii Duub chalaa, zanjiir paRii darvaaze meN
kyoN der ga'e ghar aa'e ho, sajnii se karo ge bahaanah kyaa

*Ibn-i-Insha (1927-1978)*


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## marrish

I think that "a good soul" is a good description of both saj(ja)nii and sajjan, not its exact translation or definition. "Soul" stands here for 'a person'; 'soul' is not to be taken literally. This is also the reason for me having put it in the quotation marks.


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## HZKhan

Although 'sajnii' and 'baalam' have been used on very rare occasions in written Urdu works, they still sound highly_ hindi-esque _to me, and I'd advise Urdu learners not to use these words in their writings.
There are already countless words in Urdu that can easily be used in their place.


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## Qureshpor

^ I respect your views Pakistani Khan SaaHib but these words (e.g sajnii, saajan baalaam and dozens more similar ones) are part and parcel of our songs and poetry. ..

 e.g aa'e mausam raNgiile suhaane, jiyaa nah hii mane, tuu chhuTTii le ke aa jaa baalamaa

 I have already given an example of an exquisite Ghazal by Ibn-I-Insha in which he employs the word "sajnii". This is one of the things that gives his Ghazal a different flavour. So, in summary I personally am in full support of using these words not only in poetry but in ordinary speech and prose. After all they are not the "tongue-twisting" Sanskritic words which people may have a problem with. All these words are part of Urdu's heritage [...]. Akhtar Sherani's poetry (to name only one poet) would not be the same without them.

 kiye main ne hazaar hazaar jatan kih bachaa rahe priit kii aag se man
 mire man meN ubhaar ke apnii lagan vuh lagaa'o kii aag lagaa hii ga'e


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## Dib

Btw, at least one Bengali dictionary gives Skt "svajanii" (kinswoman) as the source of the parallel Bengali word "sɔjoni". I guess it makes sense for the Hindi/Urdu word too. It avoids the problem of the simplification of the geminate "j" in sajjana/-ii.


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## littlepond

colognial said:


> I just could not help wondering if the poet had intended to provide two possible meanings: the first one, what the phrase really means,i.e. "what am I to do since my lover is not here" and the second, "what is the Kaaroon (the river) to do since the balam (raft) has not come to sail along it", or some such meaning. Of course now I understand that karoon is not a noun but a verb.



That's very, very far-fetched, colognial jii! "baalam" is a very commonly encountered word in Hindi songs, used for one's lover ("balmaa" is also used), and no Hindi speaker would see any wordplay here at all.

Meanwhile, to answer Kahaani jii's original post's question "a", the transliteration is perfectly correct in Hindi dialects. "kyaa" occurs only in standard Hindi; "kaa" is a common substitute of "kyaa" among many Hindi speakers (including those who also use "kyaa" in situations demanding usage of standard Hindi).


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## mundiya

Dib said:


> Btw, at least one Bengali dictionary gives Skt "svajanii" (kinswoman) as the source of the parallel Bengali word "sɔjoni". I guess it makes sense for the Hindi/Urdu word too. It avoids the problem of the simplification of the geminate "j" in sajjana/-ii.



The problem is the meaning of saj(j)an is the same as that of sajjana and different from svajana.  In addition, Turner shows that the NIA continuations of svajana don't have a "j".


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