# Persian, Urdu: table and desk



## Alfaaz

*Background:* 

Sample sentence: _Put the tables on this side of the store and the desks on that side of the store._



> *Table: *an article of furniture consisting of a flat, slablike top supported on one or more legs or other supports.
> *Desk:* an article of furniture having a broad, usu. level, writing surface, as well as drawers or compartments for papers, writing materials, etc.


*Questions: *

What words would be used in Persian and Urdu for_ table _and _desk_...are different words used for each? 
It seems that میز is usually used for both.

مکتب is mostly used in the sense of _school_, as in دبستانِ فکر/ خیال = مکتبِ فکر/ خیال = _school of thought_. 
Could مکتب be used for _desk_ if میز is already being used in a sentence for _table_?


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## loveiscoolandgood

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:*
> 
> Sample sentence: _Put the tables on this side of the store and the desks on that side of the store._
> 
> *Questions: *
> 
> What words would be used in Persian and Urdu for_ table _and _desk_...are different words used for each?
> It seems that میز is usually used for both.
> 
> مکتب is mostly used in the sense of _school_, as in دبستانِ فکر/ خیال = مکتبِ فکر/ خیال = _school of thought_.
> Could مکتب be used for _desk_ if میز is already being used in a sentence for _table_?



You can use میز for both table and desk. But if you want to refer to the desks that are used at schools you can use نیمکت. But you should note that the desks that are usually used at the colleges and different academic places (the ones that are more similar to chairs but have a small board attached to them) are referred to as chair صندلی and not desk in Iran. Although we also say میز مطالعه for the desks people may use at home, and میز کار for the desks that are used at the offices, or میز غذاخوری or میز ناهارخوری for dining table.
The word for school in Persian is مدرسه. In the past there were some kind of schools were kids studied Koran, Language and etc. which were called مکتب, but today it is only used to refer to different doctrines and theories or movements, such as Platonism, modernism, etc. And it is not used with desk.
In sum, I suggest you to use نیمکت. Although it depends on the context.


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for the comprehensive reply loveiscoolandgood.


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## loveiscoolandgood

You're welcome!


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## Alfaaz

Do forum members have any suggestions for Urdu?


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:*
> 
> Sample sentence: _Put the tables on this side of the store and the desks on that side of the store._
> 
> *Questions: *
> 
> What words would be used in Persian and Urdu for_ table _and _desk_...are different words used for each?
> It seems that میز is usually used for both.
> 
> مکتب is mostly used in the sense of _school_, as in دبستانِ فکر/ خیال = مکتبِ فکر/ خیال = _school of thought_.
> Could مکتب be used for _desk_ if میز is already being used in a sentence for _table_?


_ *maktab* _can still be used in Urdu to mean a desk, but it can also mean an office = *daftar* , in Urdu. Both are used with the latter more common.
When I was in school we'd go for the English borrowing and say *Desk* (some said *Daisk* !) but a _*maktab *_would have done just as well. 

We also refer to a desk as _*daftar kii mez *(_!!) to distinguish it from an ordinary table (= _*mez*_).


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## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> _ *maktab* _can still be used in Urdu to mean a desk, but it can also mean an office = *daftar* , in Urdu. Both are usedis most cowith the latter more common.
> When I was in school we'd go for the English borrowing and say *Desk* (some said *Daisk* !) but a _*maktab *_would have done just as well.
> 
> We also refer to a desk as _*daftar kii mez *(_!!) to distinguish it from an ordinary table (= _*mez*_).


 
In Arabic maktab has similar multiplicity I am surprised Urdu uses maktab for a daftar as well I.e. office. In urdu using Maktab for schools of the past or schools of thought is most common, followed by what Faylasoof saahib has stated. Madrasa though from a Perso-Arabic background should have been the official word for school it is now used for Islamic academies solely. It is indeed interesting that Persians use Maktab for them.

In Arabic maktab means the following:
Office
Desk
Shelf.

So could parliamentary desks be called Parlimaanii Maktab and desk simply maktab? Secondly, and slightly off-topic is dabistan sufficient on its own for maktab e fikr or is fikr required as a suffix here?


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## marrish

^ You don't think dabistaan is in any way related to table and desk, do you? You can make a new thread for it of course.

I can find myself in your deliberations about maktab and madrasah though.

I wouldn't recommend using maktab for a desk although it makes sense. My reservations arise from the point where I think of maktabah = library, book-store, publishing house - it's too similar, apart from maktab meaning an office.


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## Sheikh_14

marrish said:


> ^ You don't think dabistaan is in any wayis related to table and desk, do you? You can make a new thread for it of course.
> 
> I can find myself in your deliberations about maktab and madrasah though.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend using maktab for a desk although it makes sense. My reservations arise from the point where I think of maktabah = library, book-store, publishing house - it's too similar, apart from maktab meaning an office.



For your first question read the opening post before presuming. Maktabah and Maktab are both used in arabic and without any trouble, the same can be said here. Grazia in italian means grace and Grazie thank you, their roots were the same but their usages now differ entirely. Maktabah and maktab even on the basis of your dilemma are intrinsically related where do you read books? On a desk correct, where would you write them? It reminds me again of Scrivere to write and scrivania a desk. Similarly with arabic aktub is to write maktab is where it is done.

 I quite like the fact that in Urdu we have both Kutub Khana and Maktabah it allows a differentiation between library and book store which Arabic lacks.

Maktabah for library and kutub khana or kitab/ghar/istan for book store.

Since this thread is bi-lingual Perso-folks do you differentiate between the two?

As for your comments on maktab and madrasah the linguistic drift is indeed a mystery. Has madrasah ever been adopted in Urdu for a school or was it a recent loan in itself and thus associated with islam?


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## marrish

^ This time I read the OP and found that dabistaan was mentioned there but not in the sense of a desk or a table. Well, for the rest I have to accept your comments because they are quite sensible. Leaving the language matters but still with them on the background I read and write books in my bed! Bad habit but it helps to fall asleep in either way. I wouldn't call my sleeping room or my bed "maktab" but rather a _*xwaan-o-xwaabgaah*_.

Perhaps _maktab_ for a desk (and the office where a desk stands central) is alright for Urdu in certain situations. 

I'm sorry for bringing in maktabah but it was your _madrasah_ and dabistaan and the likes that made me go off a tangent. If you have earnest interest in those, why not open a new thread?


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## Sheikh_14

Read post 2, my comments on maktab and madrassah  again were merely an extension do an already initiated comment. Lol and the izaafat brigade is the least worthy of any, off the tangent gibe. Thirdly yes I may but for now these issues are on the back burner. If anyone here had burning answers to the question than perhaps they may have already come forward. Btw it remains topical even at maktabah. Schools and desks go together like fish and chips ya paapar aur aam kii chutney/ii.


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## MarcB

Urdu's use of daftar( دَفْتَر ) is interesting since it means notebook, leger in Arabic.


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## Alfaaz

MarcB said:
			
		

> Urdu's use of daftar( دَفْتَر ) is interesting since it means notebook, leger in Arabic.


 It also carries the meaning of _file, book, etc._ in Urdu. Reference: Urdu: Dafaatar دفاتر - دفتر


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## Sheikh_14

In Urdu it is quite often used for a register/ ledger but I personally have never heard it being used for a notebook. Other contributors would know better with regards to that. Though makaatib and dafaatir are pretty interchangeable for offices. But yes the variances to Arabic are a known.


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## Dib

Sheikh_14 said:


> I quite like the fact that in Urdu we have both Kutub Khana and Maktabah it allows a differentiation between library and book store which Arabic lacks.
> 
> Maktabah for library and kutub khana or kitab/ghar/istan for book store.
> 
> Since this thread is bi-lingual Perso-folks do you differentiate between the two?



In Modern Turkish (ostensibly through a Persian loan), kütüphane (<kutub-xaane) means "library", while "kitabevi" (literally, kitaab-ghar) is a "bookstore". An online dictionary gives bookshop as a meaning for kütüphane too, but I am not really sure about that.


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## Sheikh_14

Dib said:


> In Modern Turkish (ostensibly througtheh a Persian loan), kütüphane (<kutub-xaane) means "library", while "kitabevi" (literally, kitaab-ghar) is a "bookstore". An online dictionary gives bookshop as a meaning for kütüphane too, but I am not really sure about that.



 lets see where the others will stand officially on the matter so that another issue too is ironed out in the forum.


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