# 間違う, 間違っている



## Shenrais

So after reading a bit I was a bit confused on the difference between ていた and the  た form here and it's nuances.

If I were to say 

書いたテストの答えが全部、間違っていました。
書いたテストの答えが全部、間違いました。

"The test answers I wrote were all wrong." Is there some special different nuance between the two? I assume just plain ている would mean "are wrong" But i'm not sure about this, It's the state usage of ている as far as I know.

Any help would be appreciated. 

ニュアンスを教えてくれませんか。


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## SoLaTiDoberman

書いたテストの答えが全部、間違っていました。
This is almost natural, but it should usually be
書いたテストの答えが全部間違っていました。
or
書いたテストの答えが、全部間違っていました。.
The punctuation was a little weird.
If you insist or intentionally make the punctuation at that place, I will have to think about it twice. So just let me know.


書いたテストの答えが全部、間違いました。
This is ungrammatical.
The correct version should be
書いたテストの答え*を*全部間違いました。.

.................................
I will explain the difference between the next A and B.
書いたテストの答えが全部間違っていました。（A)
書いたテストの答えを全部間違いました。（B)

*"The answers I wrote in the exam turned out to be all wrong (afterward)."*
A is more natural to refer "turned out to be."
B is also acceptable.

*"I intentionally made wrong answers that I wrote (from the beginning)."*
Only B has the meaning of this.

Hope this helps.


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## karlalou

Shenrais said:


> 書いたテストの答えが全部、間違っていました。
> 書いたテストの答えが全部、間違いました。
> 
> "The test answers I wrote were all wrong." Is there some special different nuance between the two? I assume just plain ている would mean "are wrong" But i'm not sure about this, It's the state usage of ている as far as I know.


Yes, ている in 間違っていました is talking about the state, so it matches with your subject, 答え. So this sentence is perfect.
But 間違いました is saying somebody made a mistake, so it doesn't match with your subject, 答え.


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## Shenrais

I wanted to thank you two for replying, as to why the punctuation is weird that is a mistake that I think I made self doubting it. I look it at now and wonder why I did it. It's a habit I need to fix. I think the main problem is that according to a post I had read....

間違える is the correct verb when saying a mistake was made, not 間違う which is what caused my confusion. If state or action is dependent on the particle before it makes sense. But having been told that you cannot use the particle を before 間違う  and only 間違える is the source of my confusion.  But according to SoLaTiDoberman it seems to contradict this.

Can I get a confirmation on that? Thanks to you two for taking your time to answer this.


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## karlalou

Indeed 何かを間違えた sounds right, the standard, but 間違う is also a verb to say an action. Take a look at this dictionary definition 2 and 3: 間違う.

The difference between 間違えた and 間違いた is small. While there are some people say 間違いた, both never sounds like meaning a state.

間違う[間違える]のは人
（私、）あの答え(を)間違えた！
答えは[が]間違っている[間違っていた]、合っている[合っていた]

About the punctuation, the function is to make the sentence easy to read. We might be taught at school a certain way to do it, but I don't think there's something officially governing it. I like putting them to avoid a chunk of kanji. On google I see people punctuating like you.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

karlalou said:


> Indeed 何かを間違えた sounds right, the standard, but 間違う is also a verb to say an action. Take a look at this dictionary definition 2 and 3: 間違う.
> 
> The difference between 間違えた and* 間違いた (←「間違いた」　は単純なタイポで、「間違う」の過去形は「間違った」だと思います。）* is small. While there are some people say *間違いた（←間違った）*, both never sounds like meaning a state.
> 
> 間違う[間違える]のは人
> （私、）あの答え(を)間違えた！
> 答えは[が]間違っている[間違っていた]、合っている[合っていた]
> 
> About the punctuation, the function is to make the sentence easy to read. We might be taught at school a certain way to do it, but I don't think there's something officially governing it. I like putting them to avoid a chunk of kanji. On google I see people punctuating like you.


Hi, karlalou,
I think you made typos.
I'd like you to proofread them.  
Or did you intentionally write them?


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## karlalou

It's not typo. I meant that there's possibility of someone says 間違いた but still it doesn't sound like saying the state or condition, but it's always action without ている.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Then I disagree with that.
I think there is no possibility for contemporary native Japanese speakers to say 間違いた.
In the modern standard Japanese grammar, 間違った is the correct version.

dictionary form>past form
間違う＞間違った
間違える＞間違えた
間違いです＞間違いでした
間違いだ＞間違いだった
間違い（名詞）＞過去の間違い(名詞）

間違いた is just ungrammatical to me.
(Different talks for different folks.)


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## frequency

Shenrais, Weblio says _君が間違っている_ (I don't mean that you Shenrais are making a mistake!).
Your first one is this: Sth/sb が間違っている. The progressive aspect? We just use it sometimes like this, and that's the way it is.


SoLaTiDoberman said:


> dictionary form>past form
> 間違う＞間違った
> 間違える＞間違えた
> 間違いです＞間違いでした
> 間違いだ＞間違いだった
> 間違い（名詞）＞過去の間違い(名詞）


 
Yes sure!
間違う vs　間違える？・・Both are verbs. Difficult, but
間違う: あるべき状態や結果と異なる。違う。
間違える: しそこなう。失敗する。しくじる。まちがう。



> you cannot use the particle を before 間違う and only 間違える


答えを間違う・・Is this strictly an error?
（これって大丈夫だよね？）


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## Shenrais

Thank all of you for your help with this. Much appreciated. Although I'm entirely sure on the subtle difference between 間違う and 間違える. I'll assume that 間違う can be used in both cases safely for now.


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## karlalou

OP might already knows about this, but.. according to this article, you can find た形 such as past tense form from テ形: such as した from して, or あった from あって, or 見た from 見て, and so forth.
But only from this I'm still not sure what is the past tense for 間違う, but I think I found it. Let me explain.

The dictionary definition #1 for 間違う saying あるべき状態 or 結果 are a little hard to understand, but I guess it's admitting the fact that we say 答えが間違う／答えが間違った／答えが間違って. We Japanese understand it's saying "the answer is/was wrong", while we don't say 答えが間違える／答えが間違えた because they sound too much like 'answer' making a mistake to native's ear. And so now I think 間違った might be the past tense for 間違う. But other than that, I'm still not finding anything to tell me what is the past tense for what.

So answering to the OP's question, we say:

私は答えを間違える／私は答えを間違えます／私は答えを間違えた／私は答えを間違えました

私は答えを間違う／私は答えを間違います／私は答えを間違った／私は答えを間違いました

答えが間違う／答えが間違った (答えが間違います sounds too much like 'answer' making a mistake. Though I think 答えが間違いました is not so bad, and also we say 答えが違います／答えが違いました.)

But we do not say 答えが間違える／答えが間違えた because it sounds like 'answer' making a mistake.



Shenrais said:


> But having been told that you cannot use the particle を before 間違う and only 間違える is the source of my confusion.


When 間違う is used like #3, it's used as intransitive verb, so indeed no one says *答えが何かを間違う*.
But 間違う is also used as transitive verb like 私は答えを間違う. We are already ok about this.



Shenrais said:


> If state or action is dependent on the particle before it makes sense.


Above #1 and #2 is definitely action, but #3… I feel it's also action.
OK. I see that 〜が間違っている is state, and 〜を間違う or 〜を間違える is action. In the case of 答えが間違う, I feel it's *action* though dictionary says it's state.

However, we say:
私は答えを間違え*ている*／私は答えを間違え*てい*ます／私は答えを間違え*てい*た／私は答えを間違え*てい*ました
私は答えを間違っ*ている*／私は答えを間違っ*てい*ます／私は答えを間違っ*てい*た／私は答えを間違っ*てい*ました
答えが間違っ*ている*／答えが間違っ*てい*ます／答えが間違っ*てい*た／答えが間違っ*てい*ました
and these all sound like *state*. This is because all are in *ている* form.
(Also you can say (だれか・私・あなた)が間違っている, but when you say without ている, 私が間違う, I think it's just nothing but *action*.)
(I think I might have said 答えが間違え*てい*て〜 in my life, but I guess this is wrong.)

[edit to add] I asked about 答えが間違う on the net right now, and got an answer from somebody I don't know that she is not comfortable with 答えが間違う, but 答え*が間違っている* (and 答え*を間違う*), and I feel that way too. 答えが間違う is a possible sentence, but it's a bit hard for us to get what it's saying without any context. *When we are talking about state, we can relate to it easier if it's said in the form of ている*.


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