# pyörittää / kierittää



## Gavril

Both these words are translated "roll" in the dictionary I'm using. Is there a difference of meaning? Esimerkeiksi:

_He rolled a wheel down the hill
He rolled/spun the roulette wheel_
_ I rolled the ball around
He rolled up the carpet _(lieriömäiseksi muodoksi)
_He rolled the clay into a ball_

K


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## Grumpy Old Man

My suggestions:

_He rolled a wheel down the hill = Hän pyöritti pyörän mäkeä alas.
_That doesn't sound particularly good to my ear, though, because of this repetition of _pyö  -  pyö  _in _pyöritti pyörän._ I might just say: _Hän antoi pyörän mennä alas mäestä._

_He rolled/spun the roulette wheel = Hän pyöritti/pyöräytti rulettipyörää._
_Pyöritti_ could imply a continuous action, as though the person had rolled the wheel for a few minutes. _Pyöräytti _clearly refers to a short movement by hand only.

_I rolled the ball around = Hän pyöritteli palloa. (Hän pyöritti palloa ympäriinsä.)
_The second alternative is longer and experts probably don't consider it very good even though it is commonly used.

_He rolled up the carpet  __= Hän kääri maton rullalle.

__He rolled the clay into a ball_ = _Hän pyöritti savesta pallon. / Hän pyöritti saven palloksi. _However, I would simply say: _Hän muovaili savesta pallon.

_Also note:

Esimerkeiksi: Should be: *Esimerkiksi:*
(lieriömäiseksi muodoksi) Better: *lieriön muotoiseksi/muotoon*

GOM


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## Gavril

Thanks! I notice that none of your translations involve _kierittää _or related stems -- when is _kierittää_ used?



> Esimerkeiksi: Should be: *Esimerkiksi:*


I was trying to use the translative plural of _esimerkki_, since there were multiple examples. Is _esimerkeiksi _not the correct translative plural? It (i.e. _esimerkeiksi_) seems to be used a lot, based on Google.


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## kimurantti

Here's few examples: hän kieri lumihangessa, hän kiertää taloa ympäri, kiertää sormensa ympäri, kiertää kaukaa, kiertää jotakin (vaikka lakia)

I'm not sure how correct these are in english but: he rolled in snow, he walk around the house (outside) and wrapped around finger, stay away from, to get around (law).


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## sakvaka

Gavril said:


> I was trying to use the translative plural of _esimerkki_, since there were multiple examples. Is _esimerkeiksi _not the correct translative plural? It (i.e. _esimerkeiksi_) seems to be used a lot, based on Google.



There is no need to use the plural, as the singular is more common in the beginning of lists. In the examples on Google the translative plural is used in the middle of sentences: _Ne oli vain tarkoitettu esimerkeiksi_. _Juniorijääkiekkoilijat [nostettiin] päihteettömän elämän esimerkeiksi._

If I'd wanted to use plural, I'd have replaced the translative with an essive form: _

Esimerkkeinä seuraavat:
- hoh-hoh
- pälä pälä
- hihhei
_
... or just used a partitive._

Esimerkkejä:
- pojoing
- viuh pläts
- pum räiskis, kilin kolin
_


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## Gavril

Kiitos esimerkeistä. I'm specifically curious about the case of _kieriä_:



kimurantti said:


> Here's few examples: hän kieri lumihangessa,



How would this be different in meaning from _Hän pyöri lumihangessa_?

K


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## Grumpy Old Man

Gavril said:


> How would this be different in meaning from _Hän pyöri lumihangessa_?
> K


Without context, I can't detect a difference.

Re: _Esimerkeiksi,_ I should have mentioned that using the singular in this particular case is just idiomatic. Curiously enough, the singular is used in English as well: _for example._


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## Gavril

Grumpy Old Man said:


> Without context, I can't detect a difference.



How about

_Hän pyöri/kieri lumihangessa monen tunnin ajan

Hän kompastui kengännauhaan _[_yli kengännauhaa_?]_, ja __pyöri/kieri lumihangessa_?


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## Grumpy Old Man

Both your sentences look okay to me. _Kompastui kengännauhaan_ is correct, not the other alternative. I cannot envisage any madman rolling in snow for hours, though!

_Pyöriä_ suggests a continuous movement to me, like a wheel turning around steadily, and that's why _hän pyöri/kieri lumihangessa_ _monen tunnin ajan_ conjures somewhat strange images in my mind. For a short visit into a drift of snow, which is what some Finns actually do from the sauna, _hän kiereskeli/pyöriskeli lumihangessa _is a more likely collocation to my mind. No person can revolve steadily for hours anywhere, least of all in snow.

For your second sentence the verbs you suggest work well since what happens after one trips over one's shoelaces is beyond one's control and doesn't last long. _Pyöriskeli/kieriskeli_ would imply deliberate intention, and people don't roll in snow intentionally after they take a tumble.

This usage may appear illogical but this is how I would use the verbs. Hopefully we'll get other opinions!

GOM


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## Hakro

To my ear there is a small difference:

_Hän pyöri lumihangessa_ - He was rolling in vertical, horizontal or in any other plane.
_Hän kieri lumihangessa_ - He was in lying position when rolling.
_Hän pyöritti palloa lattialla - _He rolled the ball on the floor.
_Hän kieritti suuren kiven pois_ - He rolled the big stone away.

But this is no "final truth"; instead, _pyöriä_ and _kieriä_ are perfect synonyms, as well as _pyörittää _and _kierittää_.


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