# All dialects: بابور



## Hemza

Hello,

I've just finished watching the Jordanian film ذئب and in several occasions, one character (the antagonist) kept refering to the Hijaz railway's train as البابور (in reference to the steam engine). Is the word still used today to mean "train"? The film's plot occurs in 1916 and the dialect is bedouin so this may not be the case today but I still wonder how common this word is in other countries and if it still occurs. To my knowledge, in Morocco it refers to boats (not smaller ones though) although I don't think most of them still use steam engines today yet the word has been kept.

What about other countries?

Thank you.


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## elroy

It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic.  It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this); I don't know an English word for it.

By the way, we pronounce it with a short "a" and a geminated second "b": "b*abb*ōr."


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic.  It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this);


The same in Egypt.
Pronounced babōr


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## momai

elroy said:


> It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic.  It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this); I don't know an English word for it.
> 
> By the way, we pronounce it with a short "a" and a geminated second "b": "b*abb*ōr."


Meaning and pronunciation are the same in Syrian


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## elroy

Surprising, given your love for long vowels!


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## I.K.S.

Hemza said:


> To my knowledge, in Morocco it refers to boats


Yes, to ships with steam engine, The traditional name for "train" in Morocco was بابور البر as well, in contrast to the maritime one.


elroy said:


> It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic. It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this); I don't know an English word for it.


This made me remember there was a kind of Samovar manufactured in Fes people used to call it بابور too.


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## apricots

elroy said:


> It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic.  It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this); I don't know an English word for it.
> 
> By the way, we pronounce it with a short "a" and a geminated second "b": "b*abb*ōr."



There's no single word in English but either hiking stove or backpacking stove work.


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## djara

Hemza said:


> To my knowledge, in Morocco it refers to boats


Same in Tunisian, بابور means:
1- a large-sized ship with an engine (originally a steam engine) Hemza, here's another song for you. Look for Hedi Guella بابور زمّر
2- a Primus stove (exactly like the one indicated by Elroy)

If it only means stove in Egyptian how do you explain Abdelwahab's song يا وابور رايح على فين؟
Maybe the train meaning is outdated in Egyptian.


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## Sun-Shine

djara said:


> If it only means stove in Egyptian how do you explain Abdelwahab's song يا وابور رايح على فين؟
> Maybe the train meaning is outdated in Egyptian.


There's something related to the train called وابور. The stove also called بابور or وابور. I don't know the difference because it is no longer used and I didn't see it.


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## Hemza

Thank you all for your input! I didn't expect this topic would meet this success .


elroy said:


> It doesn't mean "train" in Palestinian Arabic.  It means a small, portable stove with a single burner (like this); I don't know an English word for it.


I don't think it is still the case in Jordan today but given the plot of the film, it may have been the case in the past, since the Hijaz Railways and its steam engines were pushing until هيفاء if I'm not wrong.



إتحادية قبائل الشاوية said:


> Yes, to ships with steam engine, *The traditional name for "train" in Morocco was بابور البر* as well, in contrast to the maritime one.



Oh I had no idea! I don't think it would be understood today by most young people (they hardly understand when I say بزبوز...).



> This made me remember there was a kind of Samovar manufactured in Fes people used to call it بابور too.



We have one at home there! I had no idea how it was called and never thought to ask  .



djara said:


> Same in Tunisian, بابور means:
> 1- a large-sized ship with an engine (originally a steam engine) Hemza, here's another song for you. Look for Hedi Guella بابور زمّر
> 2- a Primus stove (exactly like the one indicated by Elroy)



A beautiful song indeed, about هجرة أهل بلاد والفشل في حفظه.


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## analeeh

It was certainly in use in Palestine at one point - I did a project involving some interviews with Palestinian elders conducted in the 1980s, when there were still people alive who were born during the Ottoman period, and they all used ببور for train. I think it's now dated. I suspect it's from Turkish _vapur_, which also refers to steamships, and originally obviously from _vapeur._


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## cherine

analeeh said:


> I suspect it's from Turkish _vapur_, which also refers to steamships, and originally obviously from _vapeur._


I don't know if it's from Turkish, but it certainly originates from the French word vapeur (steam, as in steam engine).


sun_shine 331995 said:


> The same in Egypt.
> Pronounced babōr


I don't think this is accurate. The word in Egyptian Arabic is وابور wabuur and بابور babuur, same word and two pronunciation. And to my knowledge, the pronunciation babuur was more used in rural areas and be less educated people, the "standard" pronunciation was wabuur (evidence: the song of Abdel Wahab يا وابور قُل لي رايح على فين). And yes, it referred to the train, as trains in old times used to work with البخار (vapeur/steam).
Interestingly, the plural is only -as far as I know- bawabiir بوابير. 


sun_shine 331995 said:


> There's something related to the train called وابور. The stove also called بابور or وابور. I don't know the difference because it is no longer used and I didn't see it.


Also one word and two objects: the train and the keyrosene stove وابور الجاز (some images here). The water company was also caled وابور المَيَّة (there's a neighborhood in Alexandria called وابور المَيّة and it has the water company there).


Hemza said:


> Thank you all for your input! I didn't expect this topic would meet this success .


Nostalgia is always a winner 


> I don't think it is still the case in Jordan today but given the plot of the film, it may have been the case in the past, since the Hijaz Railways and its steam engines were pushing until هيفاء if I'm not wrong.


It's حيفا, please  I thought you were talking about هيفاء the singer. 


> Oh I had no idea! I don't think it would be understood today by most young people


I don't think todays young people know about الوابور/البابور being a name for the train (except for those who know the song of Abdel Wahab and know what it talks about, but I don't think they're many). The same goes for وابور الجاز which went obsolete in the late 70s already. I only know it because of movies and because my grandmother had one.



إتحادية قبائل الشاوية said:


> Yes, to ships with steam engine, The traditional name for "train" in Morocco was بابور البر as well, in contrast to the maritime one.


I think the same differentiation was used in Egypt, between وابور البحر big steamboats and وابور البر, the trains. Though I believe the word وابور/بابور alone was used for both and context alone was use to tell which of them was meant.


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## Sun-Shine

cherine said:


> Interestingly, the plural is only -as far as I know- bawabiir بوابير.


So both بابور and وابور are the same thing?
I heard both words and I didn't know the difference.


> I don't think todays young people know about الوابور/البابور being a name for the train (except for those who know the song of Abdel Wahab and know what it talks about, but I don't think they're many).


You are right .


> The same goes for وابور الجاز which went obsolete in the late 70s already. *I only know it because of movies.*


The same here. 


> I thought you were talking about هيفاء the singer.


I thought the same.


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## elroy

apricots said:


> either hiking stove or backpacking stove work.





djara said:


> a Primus stove


 Thanks!  Before this thread I knew no English words/phrases for this; now I know three.  


cherine said:


> It's حيفا, please


 Thanks for clarifying!  I had absolutely no clue who/what هيفاء was.


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## WannaBFluent

بابور also means _heat gun, décapeur thermique_ in French, it's a tool used to erase paint from walls.
Heat gun - Wikipedia



djara said:


> a Primus stove (exactly like the one indicated by Elroy)


Some Arabs say بريموس to call it.


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## akhooha

WannaBFluent said:


> ...
> Some Arabs say بريموس to call it.


I've never heard بريموس, but I have heard بَرَموس


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## djara

elroy said:


> Thanks! Before this thread I knew no English words/phrases for this; now I know three.


Primus is a Trade Mark but as they were the inventors of the concept Primus became a household name. In Tunisia, Primus (pronounced the French way) is still used for another product of the same company: the Primus lantern; not the modern ones but the old, as here


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## elroy

cherine said:


> وابور الجاز which went obsolete in the late 70s already


 I don’t know if they’re still common in Palestine, but they were when I was growing up in the ’90s.  They were often used to brew coffee, for example.  You could do it while sitting down in your living room, rather than standing in your kitchen.


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## Hemza

cherine said:


> Also one word and two objects: the train and the keyrosene stove وابور الجاز (some images here).



My friend told me they used to own one and it was still common in his village when he was a brat   (in the 90's).



> Nostalgia is always a winner



This didn't even occured to me that nostalgia could be the cause since this is how I call "ships/boats" haha.



> It's حيفا, please  I thought you were talking about هيفاء the singer.



My baaaad  (sorry @elroy) I hesitated and didn't want to look for it on Google.  My شبه intuition tricked me (This is certainly not the kind of songs I listen to moreover!).



WannaBFluent said:


> بابور also means _heat gun, décapeur thermique_ in French, it's a tool used to erase paint from walls.
> Heat gun - Wikipedia



Où ça? En Syrie?


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## cherine

elroy said:


> I don’t know if they’re still common in Palestine, but they were when I was growing up in the ’90s.  They were often used to brew coffee, for example.  You could do it while sitting down in your living room, rather than standing in your kitchen.


This one is different, it's smaller and it's still used in several household (especially by older and/or traditional people who love to make their coffee the traditional way  ) and it's called sebertaaya سبرتاية.
(It's hard to post link for me now, as I'm currently using an old, semi-supported browser, but please google for images of سبرتاية and you'll see the difference).


Hemza said:


> My friend told me they used to own one and it was still common in his village when he was a brat   (in the 90's).


Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if rural places and poor urban household still used it till now.


> This didn't even occured to me that nostalgia could be the cause since this is how I call "ships/boats" haha.


You're an old soul in a young body 


> My baaaad


No worries, at least you gave us a good laugh for the funny misunderstanding. You deserve a cookie for it.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> This one is different


 Sorry for the confusion.  I meant that بابور's (I'm actually not sure what the plural form is in Palestinian!) were actually used to brew coffee.    Of course, they were also used for other things, not just coffee.  That was just an example.


cherine said:


> at least you gave us a good laugh for the funny misunderstanding.


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