# All Slavic languages: Voiced alveolar affricate



## vianie

Hello,

Voiced alveolar affricate is a type of consonantal sound used in four of Slavic languages - Polish, Kashubian, Macedonian and Slovak.

Is this sound natively appearing in any other Slavic language in its non-standard level?

Please no consonant clusters and assimilations, thanks


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## ahvalj

It was an intermediate result of the Second and Third palatalizations (nogė>nodzė>nozė and *kъnęgъ>kъnędzь) and as such existed for several centuries in most Slavic dialects. In West Slavic, it was also the result of the development of *dj>dz(>z) (*medju>*medzu>między, medzi, mezi) and again existed for some time in the entire West Slavic area.


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## iobyo

vianie said:


> Is this sound natively appearing in any other Slavic language in its non-standard level?



The codifiers of Montenegrin had initially intended to include it in the standard, but it's absent in the spelling manual and grammar they published.

At the non-standard level, it occurs in some spoken dialects in Serbia, Montenegro and Bulgaria, and in many dialects in the Republic of Macedonia and northern Greece.


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## ahvalj

Literary Ukrainian and Belarusian have a limited number of words with this sound, which in all cases is either a borrowing or a result of a secondary development (e. g. Ukrainian _дзвонити_ from late Common Slavic _zvoniti_). Also, if you don't mind a palatalized _dz'_, Belarusian has it in an endless amount of words, where it has developed from a palatalized _d' _(_neděļa_>_нядзеля_).


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## vianie

ahvalj said:


> It was an intermediate result of the Second and Third palatalizations (nogė>nodzė>nozė and *kъnęgъ>kъnędzь) and as such existed for several centuries in most Slavic dialects.


This is the case in Polish, Kashubian and Macedonian. I can't recall any Slovak word with _dz_ that has been developed this way.


> In West Slavic, it was also the result of the development of *dj>dz(>z) (*medju>*medzu>między, medzi, mezi) and again existed for some time in the entire West Slavic area.


This is the case in Polish, Kashubian and Slovak. I am not sure about Macedonian here.



iobyo said:


> At the non-standard level, it occurs in some spoken dialects in Serbia, Montenegro and Bulgaria, and in many dialects in the Republic of Macedonia and northern Greece.


1) Do you know any Serbian, Montenegrin or Bulgarian words with _dz_ _(s)_ ?
2) Are there any Macedonian dialect non-using that sound? In Slovakia, it's used everywhere, even the Hungarians do have it in their language.
3) Did you mean any _Slavic_ dialect in northern Greece?


ahvalj said:


> Also, if you don't mind a palatalized _dz'_, Belarusian has it in an endless amount of words, where it has developed from a palatalized _d' _(_neděļa_>_нядзеля_).


In certain Western and Eastern Slovak dialects, the _dz_ is used instead of a palatal _ď_ (_dedina>dzedzina, dievča__>__dzifče_).


Due to the late Slovak colonization, the _dz_ sound is used also in the dialect of Czech that is spoken on the northwestern side of White Carpathians.


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## ahvalj

vianie said:


> This is the case in Polish, Kashubian and Macedonian. I can't think of any Slovak word with _dz_ being developed this way.
> 
> This is the case in Polish, Kashubian, Macedonian and Slovak.


You are speaking about the attested stages of these languages. In the second and third palatalizations, _dz _was an intermediate stage between the original _g_ and the current _z_, and is known in the Old Church Slavonic. In all the modern Slavic languages (except for the word _dzvezda_ in Macedonian) it has developed further into _z_ or _z'_. The same happened with the _dz_(<*_dj_) in Czech.


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## vianie

> In the second and third palatalizations, _dz _was an intermediate stage between the original g and the current z


I'm speaking that at this moment I can't recall of any Slovak word with _dz_ that has been developed that way.


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## ahvalj

vianie said:


> I'm speaking that at this moment I can't recall any Slovak word that has been developed that way.


Slovak has eliminated the results of the second and third palatalizations for _h_ (there may be some remnants, don't know): the original type was e. g. _vrah_/_vrazi_.


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## FairOaks

Дзвън/дзъркам as well as some hundred other words I can remember don't follow that rule, unless you can somehow fit the *g > *d' > dz > z pattern into roots such as *svonos. The opposite assumption is false, too. You're overgeneralising.


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## ahvalj

ahvalj said:


> Slovak has eliminated the results of the second and third palatalizations for _h_ (there may be some remnants, don't know): the original type was e. g. _vrah_/_vrazi_.


At least _kňaz_ has _z_ from _dz_ from the third palatalization.


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## ahvalj

FairOaks said:


> Yeah. Дзвън/дзъркам as well as some hundred other words I can remember don't follow that rule, unless you can somehow fit the *g > *d' > dz > z pattern into roots such as *svonos. The opposite assumption is false, too. You're overgeneralising.


Дуриданов (гл. ред.) · 1991 · Граматика на старобългарския език: 116–117:
«Съвременният български книжовен език почти не познава този звук (с изключение на три-четири редки думи: _дзвиска, дзивгар, дзън,_ _дзифт_), но в редица народни, предимно западни, говори той е доста разпространен, *като често замества по-старото з* — тенденция, която се е проявила още в старобългарската епоха (срв. _проѕѧбе_ Мт 13.24 Асем)».

Георгиев, Дуриданов, Рачева (ред.) · 1971 · Български етимологичен речник. Том I (А–З)
375: *дзвън-*, вж. _звън_.
The words on _дз_- listed there (373–380) either have corresponding forms on _з_- (_дзаран, дзастра, дзваница, дзвено, дзвяр_ etc.), or are borrowings (_дзангалаш, дзердзеват_), or are onomatopoeic (_дзвизнувам, дзвокам, дзедзам_), or are results of contamination (_дзворец_ «[в]ероятно кръстоска от _скворец_ = _скорец_ и _дрозд_»). _Дзвезда_, the only one, appears original (gwě->dzwě->zwě-). Looks that this _дз_- in Bulgarian dialects is almost always of an emphatic origin. Southern blood…


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## ahvalj

Why this _dz_- can hardly be original: the development of the IE palatovelars _k'_>_tś_>_s_ and _g'_>_dź_>_z_ was parallel, and if some areas had preserved the voiced affricate _dź_>_dz_, we must have expected the preservation of the voiceless one as well, i. e. _tś_>_c_, which is not attested, as far as I know. Moreover, regarding the stability of the voiceless affricates in Slavic vs. the deaffricatization of their voiced counterparts in all the three Slavic palatalizations (_čelověkъ_/_žena_, _rǫcě/nozě, naricati/podvizati_), one would rather expect a reflexation _c_/_z_ (*_c__ě__mьja_/_zemja_) and not _s_/(_dz_) suggested by a small number of Bulgarian dialectal examples.


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## iobyo

vianie said:


> 1) Do you know any Serbian, Montenegrin or Bulgarian words with _dz_ _(s)_ ?
> 2) Are there any Macedonian dialect non-using that sound? In Slovakia, it's used everywhere, even the Hungarians do have it in their language.
> 3) Did you mean any _Slavic_ dialect in northern Greece?



1) I'm not sure about Bulgarian, but FairOaks did give one example. The Serbian Wikipedia article for _Montenegrin language_ gives a few examples:


> [Ѕ]авала, ѕера, ѕановијетати, биѕин, ѕинѕула,  ѕамантати, бронѕин, ѕингани, ѕипати, ѕиѕка, Ѕано (име), Бороѕан  (презиме), Маленѕа (топоним), Миѕа (надимак) [...]



2) Yes. In some subdialects of the Debar dialect, Lower Polog dialect, Upper Prespa dialect and Nestram-Kostenar dialect it isn't used or its use is facultative.

3) No, as with the Upper Prespa dialect and Nestram-Kostenar (above). 

As a side note, the reason why so many Macedonian dialects have preserved the phonemic status of /dz/ is usually explained as owing the influence of other Balkan languages (especially Aromanian and Greek).


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## Vulcho

So is there any language/dialect that preserves the original dz?

It seems to me that in Bulgarian dialects dz comes from earlier z in several cases:

1. zv- > dzv-(дзвезда, дзвън, дзвер)
2a. -lz- > -ldz- (сълдза)
2b. -nz- > -ndz- (бендзин, ондзи, лендзя, скръндза)
2c. -rz- > -rdz- (бърдзо, мърдзел)
3. z- > dz-(дзарана, дзаден)

In the same dialects also ž becomes dž in those same cases (eg. джвакам, дърджа, джелязо, мъндж, ...)


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## iobyo

Vulcho said:


> So is there any language/dialect that preserves the original dz?



Many Western Macedonian dialects have /dz/ from the Slavic second palatalization (_ноѕе, ѕвезда, белеѕи_). The sound change /zv/ → /dzv/ was regularized and now those dialects have _ѕвек(от), ѕвекне, ѕвер, ѕвисне, ѕвоно, _etc. This regularization also triggered /ʒv/ → /dʒv/: _џвака._ The Western Macedonian sound changes /zv/ → /dzv/ and /ʒv/ → /dʒv/ were accepted into the standard, but this process is no longer productive (as with звук < Russ.). 

Apart from Greek loanwords, there are a few anomalous cases: _ѕид, __ѕирка _(< *zьrěti), _ѕемја, еѕеро, солѕа, молѕе, бронѕа, бенѕин_), of which only the first two examples are standard.


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## HalberMensch

ahvalj said:


> _Дзвезда_, the only one, appears original (gwě->dzwě->zwě-).



And what about "дзв(я/е)р"? How is it any different?



ahvalj said:


> Southern blood…



Really now...


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## ahvalj

HalberMensch said:


> And what about "дзв(я/е)р"? How is it any different?


_Ѕвѣзда_/_цвѣтъ_ have sibilants as a result of the second palatalization that took place some time in the 6–8th centuries and not everywhere across the Slavic area: West Slavic e. g. systematically preserves _gw_/_kw_, cp. Polish _gwiazda_/_kwiat_. The sibilants in _звѣрь_/_св__ѧтъ_ are Slavic reflexes of the Indo-European palatovelars _g'h_/_g'_/_k'_ and are much older, cp. Lithuanian _žvėris_/_šventas_. 

There are also some deviating cases, e. g. Lithuanian has _žvaigždė_ for the Slavic _гвѣзда_, which doesn't fit this picture, but this is explained as a result of an ancient inconsistent assibilation in Slavic (cp. also _žąsis_/_гѫсь_ or _šešuras_/_свекъръ_); there are also cases when Slavic has the assibilation and Baltic doesn't, e. g. _слушати_/_klausyti, _and even cases when both reflexes coexist within Slavic, e. g. Russian _прислонить_/_приклонить_.



HalberMensch said:


> Really now...


That was actually an allusion to FairOaks' (now censored) post.


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## Милан

In standard Serbian at the end of the word when the next one starts with voiced consonant. 
ота*ц* би/ota*c* bi  [otadz bi]


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## HalberMensch

ahvalj said:


> _Ѕвѣзда_/_цвѣтъ_ have sibilants as a result of the second palatalization that took place some time in the 6–8th centuries and not everywhere across the Slavic area: West Slavic e. g. systematically preserves _gw_/_kw_, cp. Polish _gwiazda_/_kwiat_. The sibilants in _звѣрь_/_св__ѧтъ_ are Slavic reflexes of the Indo-European palatovelars _g'h_/_g'_/_k'_ and are much older, cp. Lithuanian _žvėris_/_šventas_.
> 
> There are also some deviating cases, e. g. Lithuanian has _žvaigždė_ for the Slavic _гвѣзда_, which doesn't fit this picture, but this is explained as a result of an ancient inconsistent assibilation in Slavic (cp. also _žąsis_/_гѫсь_ or _šešuras_/_свекъръ_); there are also cases when Slavic has the assibilation and Baltic doesn't, e. g. _слушати_/_klausyti, _and even cases when both reflexes coexist within Slavic, e. g. Russian _прислонить_/_приклонить_.



Ah yes, you're right of course. I somehow managed to overlook the West Slavic reflexes and thought both examples had *gv<*ghw.



ahvalj said:


> That was actually an allusion to FairOaks' (now censored) post.


I see, it just looked very odd in that context. Nevermind, just a misunderstanding.


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