# bangkito



## Qcumber

I know the terms
Span. banco > banquito > Tag. *bangkítò* "small bench"
Tag. bágo "new" > Tag. *bagítò* "greenhorn"

In both cases Tagalog adds a final glottal stop, represented by the grave accent, to the diminutive Spanish suffix -ito: -*ítò* [i: to?].

Is it always the case? For instance if I use Span. plato "plate" > platito "small plate", should I pronounce it

1) *platíto* [pla 'ti: to]

or

2) *platítò* [pla 'ti: to?]

in Tagalog?


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> I know the terms
> Span. banco > banquito > Tag. *bangkítò* "small bench"
> Tag. bágo "new" > Tag. *bagítò* "greenhorn"
> 
> In both cases Tagalog adds a final glottal stop, represented by the grave accent, to the diminutive Spanish suffix -ito: -*ítò* [i: to?].
> 
> Is it always the case? For instance if I use Span. plato "plate" > platito "small plate", should I pronounce it
> 
> 1) *platíto* [pla 'ti: to]
> 
> or
> 
> 2) *platítò* [pla 'ti: to?]
> 
> in Tagalog?



I'm not sure with your symbols but we pronounce *-ito* (diminutive endings) the way Spanish speakers do. Exceptions are some (not all) words that naturally end with *-ito*: 

hito (a kind of fish)
itó (this) 
pitó (seven) 
etc


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## Qcumber

ffrancis said:


> I'm not sure with your symbols but we pronounce *-ito* (diminutive endings) the way Spanish speakers do. Exceptions are some (not all) words that naturally end with *-ito*:


My question doesn't bear on stem words like _pitó_ "seven", but on the diminutive suffix *-ito*.
For you, does *bangkítò* rhyme with *hítò* "white-spotted freshwater catfish" or with *díto* "here"?


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> My question doesn't bear on stem words like _pitó_ "seven", but on the diminutive suffix *-ito*.
> For you, does *bangkítò* rhyme with *hítò* "white-spotted freshwater catfish" or with *díto* "here"?



It rhymes with *dito* (here), and *dito* rhymes with *pito* (whistle) in Spanish. As I have said, we pronounce the diminutive suffix *-ito* like in Spanish.


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## Qcumber

ffrancis said:


> It rhymes with *dito* (here), and *dito* rhymes with *pito* (whistle) in Spanish. As I have said, we pronounce the diminutive suffix *-ito* like in Spanish.


Yet, dictionaries have the spelling *bangkítò* with the grave accent on the <o> and this means that the /o/ is followed by the glottal stop /?/.
The same ending occurs in the mixed derivative *bagítò* "greenhorn."
So these words cannot rhyme with *díto*, that has no final glottal stop.


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## epistolario

Qcumber said:


> Yet, dictionaries have the spelling *bangkítò* with the grave accent on the <o> and this means that the /o/ is followed by the glottal stop /?/.
> The same ending occurs in the mixed derivative *bagítò* "greenhorn."
> So these words cannot rhyme with *díto*, that has no final glottal stop.


 
After conducting a survey with my colleagues at work, only one (a middle-aged woman) who is a native of Batangas told me their pronunciation of *bangkito* rhymes with *hito* (fish). Both pronunciations, though, can be considered acceptable based on usage so these dictionaries also needs updating. 

The term *bagito* that we commonly know is a colloquial term for _a newcomer_ (bago + -ito) and we're unanimous that it rhymes with *dito* (here).


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## Qcumber

ffrancis said:


> After conducting a survey with my colleagues at work, only one (a middle-aged woman) who is a native of Batangas told me their pronunciation of *bangkito* rhymes with *hito* (fish). Both pronunciations, though, can be considered acceptable based on usage so these dictionaries also needs updating.
> 
> The term *bagito* that we commonly know is a colloquial term for _a newcomer_ (bago + -ito) and we're unanimous that it rhymes with *dito* (here).


This is puzzling. Perhaps these words are realigned on the Spanish pronunciation, particularly if you don't use them yourselves, and only see them printed without accents.
Do you live in the Philippines or are you somewhere else?


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## ppno

Qcumber, unless you're a linguist, these glottal stops shouldn't matter. I pronounce the *-ito* in *dito* and *bangkito* in the same way, so they rhyme for everybody, except maybe for linguists and dictionary compilers. (I took a class with a French linguist who's an expert on Tagbanua and Tagalog, and she hears differences in the pronunciation of vowels that I honestly don't hear.) And it's the same case with *plato* and *platito*, no glottal stops as far as my ears are concerned.

For non-linguists the glottal stops are more obvious. Example, *bangko* (bank) and *bangkô* (bench): the latter ends with an obvious glottal stop. But then again I'm not a linguist, so what's glottal for me might not be the technical/linguistic definition of glottal. (What actually counts as hearable in everyday conversation is that roof-like symbol in *bangk**ô*, not that reverse tilde.)


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## Qcumber

ppno said:


> Qcumber, unless you're a linguist, these glottal stops shouldn't matter. [...] For non-linguists the glottal stops are more obvious. Example, *bangko* (bank) and *bangkô* (bench): the latter ends with an obvious glottal stop.


You are contradicting yourself, aren't you?


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