# Drill the pronunciation of a word “approximately” [drill?]



## Constantine from Moscow

“Drill the pronunciation of a word “approximately”.

Another piece of instruction.

Do you think it’s OK to say that? 

Can one really drill pronunciation?


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## owlman5

It sounds like an odd use of "drill" to mean "practice", Constantine.  I certainly wouldn't use the sentence you're asking about in an instruction to somebody to practice pronouncing the word "approximately".


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## Constantine from Moscow

Thank you, owlman5! 

It’s really strange, that’s why I ask.


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## owlman5

Where did you hear or read the sentence?  Please tell us about the source of this strange language.  That helps other members as they try to give you sensible opinions and advice about language that troubles you.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Any other thoughts maybe? 

I’ve come across “to pronounce drill” (verb) and “pronunciation drill” (noun) though. 

Are they less awful?


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## lingobingo

Yes, Constantine, you need to give the context in _every_ thread — owlman didn’t see your other one, where you explain: 

Well, this is taken from a language course, it is one of “Teacher’s notes”…​


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## Constantine from Moscow

“Drill the pronunciation..” and some others I am about to ask your opinion on come from a local EFL course, those are pieces of instruction for teachers. I am considering working for the company but I’m somewhat puzzled by certain expressions.


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## Constantine from Moscow

These are the previous ones: “Try to elicit as many examples of dishes and food as possible”


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## owlman5

Thank you.  It's an odd sentence, and it seems particularly inappropriate to me as an instruction you found in a course that is meant to help people learn English.  If this is typical of the expressions that puzzle you, you have a good reason to be puzzled.


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## lingobingo

I don’t understand what the OP sentence means either. Perhaps they mean “the word approximately”, or “a word such as approximately”, but neither seems very likely. Or perhaps approximately is meant another way?

But *drill* means practise (AE: practice), as in a military drill where you repeat the same process over and over again in order to end up knowing it instinctively.


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## owlman5

lingobingo said:


> But *drill* means practise (AE: practice), as in a military drill where you repeat the same process over and over again in order to end up knowing it instinctively.


We use it over here as well, lingobingo, but the objects of the verb are typically limited to things like "this routine" or "this procedure".  More often than not, I hear "drill" used as a noun rather than as a verb.


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## lingobingo

I meant to mention the idiom “drill something into someone”, meaning to instil in them some particular point.

*DRILL* - verb (Oxford)
*2.3* (*drill something into*) Cause (someone) to learn something by repeating it regularly.
_‘his mother had drilled into him the need to pay for one's sins’
‘These things had been drilled into him ever since he was three.’_


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## dojibear

Constantine from Moscow said:


> “Drill the pronunciation of *the *word “approximately”.



To me that sentence is good. "Drill" means "practice over and over", and that is how it is used. That is exactly what the teacher is trying to say in this sentence. This is a normal use of "drill".

This emphasizes that "learning *to*" (speak a language, play tennis, play violin, drive on highways) does not mean just gaining knowledge. It also means self-training. And every self-training involves some amount of "drilling" in order to "train" your muscles and nerves to do things automatically (unconsciously).

Speaking the sounds of a new language correctly involves repeated practice: "training" your mouth to act in new ways. I've read that in several places. I've taken language courses at Harvard University that included pronunciation drills.



lingobingo said:


> But *drill* means practise (AE: practice), as in a military drill where you repeat the same process over and over again in order to end up knowing it instinctively.



This is exactly right. Until you can pronounce each word instinctively (without thinking) you cannot use English in long sentences, unrehearsed, to express your ideas.


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## london calling

When I was a teacher we had what were known as 'pronunciation drills', the idea being that if you repeated a word over and over it would stick in your brain. Probably not a technique that is used any more (and one I used to avoid, personally). That said, the sentence in the OP really does sound very odd. Constantine, do you think that they are in actual fact instructing the teacher to drill pronunciation of the word 'approximately'?


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## Cenzontle

Hermione is right:  the verb "drill" is perfectly normal as something that language teachers do.
What puzzles me is the three quotation marks and "a" where "the" might make more sense 
(if "approximately" is *the *word being drilled).


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## lingobingo

Whilst I totally agree with all of that — well said Hermione! — surely the problem word in the OP sentence is not “drill” at all but “approximately”. 

What’s it doing there, after “a word”? It doesn’t seem to make sense. Is the punctuation wrong? Where does it come in these teachers’ notes?


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## london calling

lingobingo said:


> Whilst I totally agree with all of that — well said Hermione! — surely the problem word in the OP sentence is not “drill” at all but “approximately”.
> 
> What’s it doing there, after “a word”? It doesn’t seem to make sense. Is the punctuation wrong? Where does it come in these teachers’ notes?


I quote myself:



london calling said:


> When I was a teacher we had what were known as 'pronunciation drills', the idea being that if you repeated a word over and over it would stick in your brain. Probably not a technique that is used any more (and one I used to avoid, personally). That said, the sentence in the OP really does sound very odd. Constantine, do you think that they are in actual fact *instructing the teacher to drill pronunciation of the word 'approximately'?*


The OP hasn't bothered to answer my question (probably didn't bother to read my post, come to that). However, I would think that 'Drill pronunciation of the word 'XXXX' is what is meant.


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## lingobingo

I would think that too. Come back Constantine, all is forgiven… Help us out here.


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## swindaff

Would it make sense to interpret it as “Drill the pronunciation of a word “*even if roughly*”?


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## lingobingo

That’s what we want to know. We need more context.


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## london calling

Al.ba said:


> Would it make sense to interpret it as “Drill the pronunciation of a word “*even if roughly*”?


Why on earth would anyone tell a teacher to drill the _approximate/rough_ pronunciation of a word?  I do see what you mean, however.


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## Cenzontle

> Would it make sense to interpret it as “Drill the pronunciation of a word “*even if roughly*”?


I personally don't think so, but let's wait for Constantine to clarify the question.
Meanwhile, for the record:  A quote within a quote, at least in American English, is marked with single quotation marks.
So I might say of someone "He asked how to pronounce 'approximately'." 
Such an active thread!  Virtually chatting!


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## Myridon

london calling said:


> However, I would think that 'Drill pronunciation of the word 'XXXX' is what is meant.


When I was in elementary school, each week, we would have a lesson in which we practiced the spelling, pronunciation and meaning of 20 to 30 words (perhaps all words ending in "ough") each day of the week. There would be a test at the end of the week.  We never had a lesson in which we only practiced one word.


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## swindaff

london calling said:


> Why on earth would anyone tell a teacher to drill the _approximate/rough_ pronunciation of a word?


No idea, honestly  But it's the only way in which that "a" would make sense to me. “Drill the pronunciation of *the *word “approximately” would only refer to that word in particular, but I find an exercise based on only one word pretty nonsense.

<By the way> I thinkConstantine is not puzzled about "approximately", but rather "drill". In a previous thread he asked about "try to elicit...", so maybe he is not familiar with specific teaching vocabulary.


< Edited to write out abbreviation in full. Cagey, moderator >


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## london calling

Myridon said:


> When I was in elementary school, each week, we would have a lesson in which we practiced the spelling, pronunciation and meaning of 20 to 30 words (perhaps all words ending in "ough") each day of the week. There would be a test at the end of the week.  We never had a lesson in which we only practiced one word.


I believe that the OP is talking about EFL teaching. I'm a trained TEFL teacher and have only ever taught English to foreigners, never to  native speakers.  When I was still teaching the so-called 'Callan Method' was in vogue (I refused a job offer because it was a Callan Method school). Pronunciation drills were one of the less bizarre  features of the method and were used to...... drill pronunciation into students' heads.


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## swindaff

london calling said:


> drill pronunciation into student's heads


Question from a EFL student: how do you do that?


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## london calling

Al.ba said:


> Question from a EFL student: how do you do that?


As I said above, students are told to say the word multiple times in succession - that in theory ensures they will never  mispronounce the word again. From experience, what it actually does if over-used is make the students so paranoid about pronunciation they become almost incapable of stringing a decent sentence together.


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## swindaff

london calling said:


> As I said above, students are told to say the word multiple times in succession - that in theory ensures they will never  mispronounce the word again. From experience, what it actually does if over-used is make the students so paranoid about pronunciation they become almost incapable of stringing a decent sentence together.


What a nightmare! Luckily, I've never experienced that


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## Myridon

london calling said:


> Pronunciation drills were one of the less bizarre  features of the method and were used to...... drill pronunciation into student's heads.


No one has problems with the idea or existence of pronunciation drills in general.  We have doubts about the probability that the sentence means only drilling the single word "approximately."


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## london calling

Myridon said:


> We have doubts about the probability that the sentence means only drilling the single word "approximately."


I really don't think it would make any sense to drill rough/approximate pronunciation of a word. If that's what it means then any students who wish to learn English properly should avoid this school like the plague, because although approximate/rough  pronunciation will be accepted by native speakers as long as it's understandable no decent school should ever actively teach it.


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## owlman5

Constantine from Moscow said:


> “Drill the pronunciation of a word “approximately”.


This is a terrible way to express the instruction if the author intended it to mean "Have the students practice/drill the pronunciation of the word "approximately".  If this sentence is typical of the author's idea of what good English is, I'm glad that author wasn't around to puzzle me with gibberish as I was learning how to speak my native language.


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## Cagey

The grammatical question about the use of 'drill' has been covered.

Discussion of the usefulness of this methodology, though interesting, is outside the scope of this forum.

Further discussion should wait until Constantine from Moscow tells us how 'approximately' functions in the sentence.  Among other things, was "approximately" marked by quotation marks in the original, or were they added when the question was posted?


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## Constantine from Moscow

Sorry for being late!

Thank you so much, guys! 

I just had to go out yesterday and only came back today. 

Gradually, I will respond to all of your messages, just give me one more break, please. 

Again, you are awesome! 

I wish I had joined this forum long before. 

If you see any kind of mistakes in my posts, please don’t hesitate to let me know. 

Thank you!


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## Constantine from Moscow

london calling said:


> Constantine, do you think that they are in actual fact instructing the teacher to drill pronunciation of the word 'approximately'?



Yes, I think that’s the idea. 

There are a few new words they want students to learn in the lesson, one of them being ‘approximately’ which is considered difficult, so it is supposed to be repeated over and over again before the pronunciation is right. 

And yes, they have ‘*a* word approximately’ which is definitely wrong.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Personally, I don’t like that kind of teachers’ slang, especially in textbooks because a lot of times people end up not knowing how to say it ‘normally’. 

But here my concern is whether or not I should contact those in charge in order to correct the sentences. 

If they are grammatically incorrect, I would. 

If they are awkward but acceptable, I simply wouldn’t use them myself. 

So far, we’ve found at least one mistake - ‘a word ..’


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## owlman5

Constantine from Moscow said:


> “Drill the pronunciation of a word “approximately”.





Constantine from Moscow said:


> If they are grammatically incorrect, I would.
> 
> If they are awkward but acceptable, I simply wouldn’t use them myself.


There isn't enough evidence in this thread to justify writing a letter to the editors, Constantine.  The sentence in question is lousy, in my opinion, but that's no reason for you to raise a stink.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Al.ba said:


> Would it make sense to interpret it as “Drill the pronunciation of a word “*even if roughly*”?



Probably, not. 

But it’s a lovely guess which led to lots of good humor.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Cenzontle said:


> I personally don't think so, but let's wait for Constantine to clarify the question.
> Meanwhile, for the record:  A quote within a quote, at least in American English, is marked with single quotation marks.
> So I might say of someone "He asked how to pronounce 'approximately'."
> Such an active thread!  Virtually chatting!



Thank you, Cenzontle! 

I didn’t know that.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Myridon said:


> We never had a lesson in which we only practiced one word.



Haha!


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## Constantine from Moscow

Al.ba said:


> No idea, honestly  But it's the only way in which that "a" would make sense to me. “Drill the pronunciation of *the *word “approximately” would only refer to that word in particular, but I find an exercise based on only one word pretty nonsense.
> 
> <By the way> I thinkConstantine is not puzzled about "approximately", but rather "drill". In a previous thread he asked about "try to elicit...", so maybe he is not familiar with specific teaching vocabulary.
> 
> 
> < Edited to write out abbreviation in full. Cagey, moderator >




To me, those sentences do not sound very English, that’s the reason for asking for help here. 

I’ve encountered “to pronounce drill” and “pronunciation drills” but not “to drill pronunciation”.


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## Constantine from Moscow

Cagey said:


> Among other things, was "approximately" marked by quotation marks in the original, or were they added when the question was posted?



It sure was.


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## Constantine from Moscow

owlman5 said:


> This is a terrible way to express the instruction if the author intended it to mean "Have the students practice/drill the pronunciation of the word "approximately".



Thank you for the suggestion, owlman5!


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## Constantine from Moscow

I thank everyone who’s contributed to this thread! 

I’ll probably never forget this. 

I don’t know how I’m going to avoid bursting with laughter while teaching though, if that ever happens. 

“Drill an approximate pronunciation of the word illicit”. 

All right then ..


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## swindaff

Constantine from Moscow said:


> “Drill an approximate pronunciation of the word illicit”.


This made me laugh!


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## Constantine from Moscow

Al.ba said:


> This made me laugh!



Haha, I’m glad we've worked it out in a fun way


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