# σαββατιανός



## Spectre scolaire

I wonder if the curse λύκος σαββατιανός να σε φάει has any relation to the “magical period” of the calendar situated between Dec. 24 and Jan. 6. According to Greek Orthodox tradition children born in this period were supposed to have special faculties for which they were both feared and venerated. I expect the “wolf” in the expression - like a wolf in scouting  – to be a human being and not the animal itself.

Or is σαββατιανός “only” used for any child born on a Saturday and not on a _lucky Sunday_, Κυριακή, the day of the Lord (according to Orthodox tradition). On the other hand, a child should not be born on a too holy day, like the day when Christ was born. This could be seen as blasphemous...

My question is specifically about the word σαββατιανός. Could it be used as an epithet to humans having the faculty of chasing vampires (βρικόλακες)? Or to a child possessing unusual faculties in general? Is the word used in any context linked to a person in today’s Greece – or have you heard of any tradition from the near past?

 Oύφ - today it is the 7th of January... ​


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## anthodocheio

Spectre scolaire said:


> Oύφ - today it is the 7th of January... ​


You must be kidding...



> I wonder if the curse λύκος σαββατιανός να σε φάει has any relation to the “magical period” of the calendar situated between Dec. 24 and Jan. 6. According to Greek Orthodox tradition children born in this period were supposed to have special faculties for which they were both feared and venerated. I expect the “wolf” in the expression - like a wolf in scouting  – to be a human being and not the animal itself.
> 
> Or is σαββατιανός “only” used for any child born on a Saturday and not on a _lucky Sunday_, Κυριακή, the day of the Lord (according to Orthodox tradition). On the other hand, a child should not be born on a too holy day, like the day when Christ was born. This could be seen as blasphemous...
> 
> My question is specifically about the word σαββατιανός. Could it be used as an epithet to humans having the faculty of chasing vampires (βρικόλακες)? Or to a child possessing unusual faculties in general? Is the word used in any context linked to a person in today’s Greece – or have you heard of any tradition from the near past?


Well, you know Spectre scolaire, "magical periods" and stories with wolves and vampires, anything but related to the Orthodox tradition can be.

In my 24 years I never heard of τον λύκο τον σαββατιανό. As a child, I had a book named "Ελληνικά παραμύθια". It had "fairy tales" with witches and witched princesses. To me, even then, not once seem like Greek tradition.

Never heard of being blasphemous to be born on the 25th of December, and

there is that word "σαββατογεννημένος" that must mean something like those that are born on a Saturday... have something special. 
I don’t know exactly but I must have heard (on TV) “Εγώ είμαι σαββατογεννημένη. Ό,τι λέω γίνεται.”

As I see, at least 3 people have changed their profile thanks to me... I don’t know if I’m happy about it...


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## PowerOfChoice

Perhaps one or more of the following items might interest you?:



Spectre scolaire said:


> On the other hand, a child should not be born on a too holy day, like the day when Christ was born. This could be seen as blasphemous...


 
The best evidence I've found indicates that the One called Christ was born, i.e. named, in the sixth lunar month (cf. Luke 1:26,) which month in that particular year ended on September 5 or 6 or else on October 4 or 5. He was subsequently conceived in the seventh month and delivered around the 12th day of either June or July.

As with many others before him, the powers that be among human hierarchies did their best to destroy the uplifting effects of his teachings while changing and modifying not only his teachings, but also many of the details attributed to his life from the very beginning. Thus the December 25 date, which is in no other way associated with the said Christ. At least not so far as I have found.






Spectre scolaire said:


> ...a Saturday and not on a _lucky Sunday_, Κυριακή, the day of the Lord (according to Orthodox tradition)...


 
What "Lord" if not said powers that be, established by men, changed "sabbath observance" or "the day of the Lord" from the Seventh Day to the First Day of the Week?

That they should do such things with things related to time was prophecied long ago as recorded in Daniel 7:25.

It has been my experience that typically their pretended basis for most everything they proclaim is based on nothing but fallacies. For instance, it is widely believed that said Christ was resurrected from death and released from his tomb early on a Sunday morning, whereas a thourough study of the best available manuscripts in Hebrew and Greek makes it clear that he was released from his tomb at sunset on Monday night.





Spectre scolaire said:


> My question is specifically about the word σαββατιανός.


 
If I were you I'd do a thourough word study of the roots of the word. I might begin by looking at the meaning of the words "σαββατ" and "ιανός." In doing so I would pursue not only the Greek roots, but certainly also the corresponding Hebrew/Chaldeic roots. One of the most powerful dictionaries I've found for these purposes is Strong's Concordance and Dictionary. 

The two roots joined together could be translated "The Shabbat of Janus." Which Shabbat is that? Who is Janus? Do I have the Power Of Choice? Do you? Upon which one, or what, do I choose to rest? Upon what basis do I choose to build my trust and security in life?

If you do such studies, I have no doubts but that you'll find many things of value!

Remember also that the name given to a child will alert the child to many things as he is constantly hearing and seing his name. Things that others are not equally aware of. This will likely affect his or her life much more than his or her day of delivery.

Consider it!






Spectre scolaire said:


> Oύφ - today it is the 7th of January...


 
Yes I agree, that's the name of this day as named by the powers that be, for instance by Pope Gregorian, whose name is associated by that calendar. That calendar begins, as best I can tell, with the beginning of the reign of Caeasar Tiberius, on June 26, 1 BC.

I am not sure which one of these months, January or June, is more strongly associated with the last root (-ιανός,) but I have no doubt but that you'll learn much about it if you pursue your question diligently with an eye towards such truths as are of real and lasting value.

The association with June may not be as recognized as the other, but considering the Hebrew linguistics as written I see little differerence between the two. Considering the difference in pronounciation however, I do see a distinct difference: One begins with Yah- as in Yahwe, the other begins with Yo- as in Eue or Eve or Eu-rope. Consider the differences! They are not small! And they do not become smaller when the two, the male and the female, are joined: Consider the word Divine = Di + vine = Dio + uine = Duo + uno = 2 + 1 = 3. For you see, the true image of the Creator is the family, more particularly the basis of the family, the male and the female (cf. Genesis 1:27.) The word "Trinity" is something very different as you'll see if you pursue its origins. Yet, its only all to easy to mix up the two. One has to do with origin, the second with consequence. There is a difference, is there not?

Either way, as you can see from the above, the root "ιανός" has much to do with the beginnings of things. It can, and - in common usage - most often does, pertain to wickedness and such things as makes all of us disoriented relative to the time reckoning of the Powers "that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters" (Revelation 14:7.)

 *φῶς* - today it is the 27th day of the Tenth Moon in the 2024th Year after the beginning of said Christ; and in the 5928th Year, more or less, after the beginning recorded in Genesis Chapter One. 

But, as you can see, each of us has the Power Of Choice - so long as we do not squander it or otherwise sell our birthrights!


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## Spectre scolaire

Dear _PowerOfChoice_ and _anthodocheio_,

I am overwhelmed by incongruous talk! 




			
				PowerOfChoice said:
			
		

> If I were you I'd do a thourough word study of the roots of the word. I might begin by looking at the meaning of the words "σαββατ" and "ιανός." In doing so I would pursue not only the Greek roots, but certainly also the corresponding Hebrew/Chaldeic roots. One of the most powerful dictionaries I've found for these purposes is Strong's Concordance and Dictionary.





			
				anthodocheio said:
			
		

> Well, you know Spectre scolaire, "magical periods" and stories with wolves and vampires, anything but related to the Orthodox tradition can be.
> 
> In my 24 years I never heard of τον λύκο τον σαββατιανό. As a child, I had a book named "Ελληνικά παραμύθια". It had "fairy tales" with witches and witched princesses. To me, even then, not once seem like Greek tradition.
> 
> 
> Never heard of being blasphemous to be born on the 25th of December


 

If we get down to the essence of my initial question, I see a glimpse of hope in:



			
				anthodocheio said:
			
		

> there is that word "σαββατογεννημένος" that must mean something like those that are born on a Saturday... have something special.


 Bingo!

Τριανταφυλλίδης on-line has got this:


> *σαββατογεννημένος -η -ο *[savatojeniménos] E3 *:* που έχει γεννηθεί Σάββατο και γι΄ αυτό, σύμφωνα με τη λαϊκή παράδοση, είναι πολύ τυχερός.


 Now, the question is why would he be ‘very lucky’? What is behind this belief in the λαϊκή παράδοση ? 

Perhaps we can get to the wolf later. 
 ​


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## anthodocheio

Spectre scolaire said:


> Dear _PowerOfChoice_ and _anthodocheio_,
> 
> I am overwhelmed by incongruous talk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we get down to the essence of my initial question, I see a glimpse of hope in:
> Bingo!
> 
> Τριανταφυλλίδης on-line has got this:
> Now, the question is why would he be ‘very lucky’? What is behind this belief in the λαϊκή παράδοση ?
> 
> Perhaps we can get to the wolf later.
> 
> ​


 
Χαχαχα! 
Αχ βρε... Τι να σου κάνω που και η δική σου ερώτηση είχε αντίστοιχα άσχετα/λαογραφικά στοιχεία μέσα; 
(Για τις απόψεις του Σουηδού φίλου μας δε θα μιλήσω...)

I hope you'll find the answer to your question...
Ciao


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## Spectre scolaire

My request to this forum was a serious one. I have found the expression λύκος σαββατιανός να σε φάει in a text from Northern Greece and I am curious about its origin.

Obviously, this _curse_ – what else would it be? – has its orgin in some tradition in Greece, and the analysis of it might require ethnographic knowledge. 

To hear about which witches everybody may have been exposed to during evening fairy tale reading in childhood, or to Chaldeic roots and Greek endings in an apocalyptic context may be interesting enough, but honestly Ι wasn’t prepared for such excursions when posting my message. 

In hindsight I have found this site: http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/culture/ekfraseis/index.html , and there is also a site which contains various curses in Greek. Neither is particularly helpful when it comes to answering my question.

There is a huge amount of ethnographic material published in Greece, and many Greeks have contributed substantially to ethnographic research abroad – like Margaret Alexiou. The main Greek journal of ethnography, Λαογραφία, established as an institution of its kind by Ν. Λ. Πολίτης in 1909 is a treasure trove for anybody who wants to look at the Greek reality behind the curtain of whatever we learned in school or through television.

 ​.


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## anthodocheio

> To hear about which witches everybody may have been exposed to during evening fairy tale reading in childhood, or to Chaldeic roots and Greek endings in an apocalyptic context may be interesting enough, but honestly Ι wasn’t prepared for such excursions when posting my message.


I suppose you didn't.. About mine, all I wanted to let you know was that this sort of things are not "Greek tradition" to me. Maybe it’s because of that curtain, maybe is that I'm a child of the city and we are in 2008, maybe all those things never came up_here, to Northern Greece... There are, definitely, various things I do consider traditionally Greek...


Spectre scolaire said:


> My request to this forum was a serious one. I have found the expression λύκος σαββατιανός να σε φάει in a text from Northern Greece and I am curious about its origin.
> 
> Obviously, this _curse_ – what else would it be? – has its orgin in some tradition in Greece, and the analysis of it might require ethnographic knowledge.


This is a "curse" 'in inverted commas'. My mother does say "Να σε φάει ο λύκος" (όχι ο σαββατιανός όμως..) and she doesn't mean anything bad at all. 
It would be like my "αχ, τι να σου κάνω..." of which I suppose you got the meaning...


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## ireney

Thread closed. Question outside the scope of the Greek forum. Added really pertinent post below.


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## velisarius

I just came across this explanation, which seems plausible. The wolf in this case is of course a werewolf:

Στη Μάνη ξεχωρίζουν τους βρυκόλακες σε «Ριχτούς» –που είναι αυτοί που δεν ησυχάζουν ποτέ– και σε «Σαββατιανούς» που βγαίνουν από το μνήμα τους μόνο τα Σάββατα.
Ελληνες Βρυκόλακες​


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## ireney

Just a note for a matter that dmtrs brought to my attention (thanks!): The ending -ιανός has nothing whatsoever to do with the Roman god Janus.
Just so we don't perpetuate false etymologies based on sound similarities alone.


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