# Venäläinen ja ryssä



## Lars H

Hej

I would like to know more about when and how Finns use the word "ryssä" instead of "venäläinen".

I did read the article on "ryssä" on Finnish Wikipedia (I translated it through Google) but I would like to know more. 
Do Finns use the word "ryssä" often? 
Is it seen as offensive (and if so very much or just a little)
And I have also heard that the ethymology for _venäjä _is related to Wenden, veneten, a word for Slavic people in the Baltic Sea region. Correct?

Kiitos etukäteen


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## Hakro

Hej Lasse,

Do we use the word often? It depends. It's never used in newspapers or other official texts but in colloquial speech it's used often; I don't know about other people but I use it practically always in everyday speech.

Is it offensive? It depends, too. Some people think it's _veeeery_ offensive. I think it's not more offensive than they deserve. Some hundred years ago it wasn't offensive at all, it was a common expression, especially in some dialects.


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## Gavril

Lars H said:


> And I have also heard that the ethymology for _venäjä _is related to Wenden, veneten, a word for Slavic people in the Baltic Sea region. Correct?



Kaisa Häkkinen on _venäjä _(_Nykysuomen Etymologinen Sanakirja, _p.1472, translated from Finnish):

"The term is an old Germanic loan. Germanic *_wened- _initially referred to Slavs generally, but later it became specified in the Germanic languages to mean the Wends, a West Slavic people who lived on the south Baltic coast, _Wenden _or _Winden_ in German, whose descendants are now known as the Sorbs. In the Baltic Finnic languages, the word began to refer to the better-known, neighboring East Slavic peoples."

So yes, you're correct (I'm not sure about _veneten, _though; where did you hear that term?).


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## sakvaka

Hakro said:


> Hej Lasse,
> 
> Do we use the word often? It depends. It's never used in newspapers or other official texts but in colloquial speech it's used often; I don't know about other people but I use it practically always in everyday speech.
> 
> Is it offensive? It depends, too. Some people think it's _veeeery_ offensive. I think it's not more offensive *than they deserve *(*??*). Some hundred years ago it wasn't offensive at all, it was a common expression, especially in some dialects.


 
I'm surprised at reading your personal viewpoint on using the word. I would use _ryssä_ only in private and casual, nearly "patriotic contexts" (if we may say so), when really wanting to insult the Russians or refer to the atmosphere during the Winter & Continuation Wars. In formal and educative contexts I would never use it. I'd also avoid the word in public because many people find it offensive. Mind you, Hakro, I am *not* trying to say that you have a bad habit. 

And indeed, there are some old proverbs that hardly sound good without the word. _Ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistas! _(Russian is a Russian, even if we fried it in butter! = You can never trust a Russian.) I cannot imagine a phrase like _venäläinen on venäläinen, vaikka voissa paistaisi_ — that sounds overly PC.


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## Lars H

Gavril said:


> Kaisa Häkkinen on _venäjä _(_Nykysuomen Etymologinen Sanakirja, _p.1472, translated from Finnish):
> 
> "The term is an old Germanic loan. Germanic *_wened- _initially referred to Slavs generally, but later it became specified in the Germanic languages to mean the Wends, a West Slavic people who lived on the south Baltic coast, _Wenden _or _Winden_ in German, whose descendants are now known as the Sorbs. In the Baltic Finnic languages, the word began to refer to the better-known, neighboring East Slavic peoples."
> 
> So yes, you're correct (I'm not sure about _veneten, _though; where did you hear that term?).



Thank you for this.

About _veneten_. There has been over the years some legends or tales trying to connect Vandals, Venetians and Wends, but don't put too much effort into that issue. My question would do fine without me using that word


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## AutumnOwl

Lars H said:


> Hej
> 
> I would like to know more about when and how Finns use the word "ryssä" instead of "venäläinen".


There is a very big difference when it comes to using the word "ryss" in Swedish and "ryssä" in Finnish. While I have no problems using "ryss" when when speaking Swedish, I would never say "ryssä" when speaking Finnish. 

De gånger jag hört "ryssä" användas har oftast varit när man har pratat om vinter- och fortsättningskrigen och vad som hände då, "ryssä" användes som ett skällsord. I vanliga fall när man pratade om ryssar i allmänhet var det alltid "venäläinen" som användes.


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