# Steek



## rushalaim

As far as I know, Dutch _"steek"_ just means a _"knot"_. Russian got nautical knots from Dutch. Thus, Dutch _"steek"_ became Russian _"shtyk"_ (_"штык"_). But English distinguishes between a _"knot"_ and _"hitch"_. It's strange, though Russian _"shtyk"_ was taken from Dutch _"steek"_ (_"knot"_) but means today _"hitch"_ in Russian. Does Dutch distinguish between _"knot"_ and _"hitch"_?


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## Peterdg

"Steek" in Dutch has many meanings but in actual Dutch, it does not mean "knot", except in shipping, but that is a very technical term: I had to look it up in the dictionary and I guess 99% of the people wouldn't know that it is also a knot.

Second, I didn't know what was meant by a _hitch_ in English in relation to a knot; I looked it up in wikipedia and apparently it is a type of knot used to attach a rope to an object. We don't have a special word for that in Dutch; all of them are called "knoop (singular)/knopen(plural)".


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## ThomasK

I think PeterDG is right. I did remember from a long time ago a word like "vlaggensteek", though I did not remember the technicalities. My specialties were "platte knoop" and "mastworp" - and the former still proves useful. More info? Look here. You will find quite some "steken" there....


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## rushalaim

Peterdg said:


> "Steek" in Dutch has many meanings but in actual Dutch, it does not mean "knot", except in shipping, but that is a very technical term: I had to look it up in the dictionary and I guess 99% of the people wouldn't know that it is also a knot.
> 
> Second, I didn't know what was meant by a _hitch_ in English in relation to a knot; I looked it up in wikipedia and apparently it is a type of knot used to attach a rope to an object. We don't have a special word for that in Dutch; all of them are called "knoop (singular)/knopen(plural)".


Russian also has many meanings for _"shtyk"_ but hardly any common man knows that that is a kind of a knot. English destinguishes - a _"knot"_ keeps its form by itself but _"hitch"_ looses its form after taking off from an object (according to The Book of Knots of Ashley). It's interesting, does Dutch distinguish (or old Dutch) between those meanings?


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## rushalaim

ThomasK said:


> I think PeterDG is right. I did remember from a long time ago a word like "vlaggensteek", though I did not remember the technicalities. My specialties were "platte knoop" and "mastworp" - and the former still proves useful. More info? Look here. You will find quite some "steken" there....


_"Vlaggensteek"_ is apparently _"Sheet Bend"_ in English.


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## rushalaim

What is the pronunciation of [stek] or [shtek]? Did old Dutch _"steek"_ differ from modern pronunciation?


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## ThomasK

I do not think it has ever been pronounced in another way than [ste:k]. You see? That is the [e:] that we refer to as a "long e"...


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## Red Arrow

Dutch lacks the phoneme /sh/. Russians could have confused Dutch /s/ with one of their /sh/.

The Russian pronunciation could also be influenced by German.


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## ThomasK

Not sure whether it lacks /sh/. Don't we have in diminutives like _meisje_?


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## Red Arrow

ThomasK said:


> Not sure whether it lacks /sh/. Don't we have in diminutives like _meisje_?


Only in dialects with suffix -sje. (like Standard Dutch) Even then, sj is [sh] phonetically, but phonemically, it is /s + j/.

Steek looks like one of those Dutch words that got into Russian via sailors. I don't know what dialect or accent they had, but if it looked like the current Hollandic accent, then every S and Z could easily be confused with /sh/.


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## ThomasK

That might be true...


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## rushalaim

Red Arrow said:


> Dutch lacks the phoneme /sh/. Russians could have confused Dutch /s/ with one of their /sh/.
> 
> The Russian pronunciation could also be influenced by German.


There are some old Russian dialects what are pronouncing for instance _"babu*s*ka"_ instead of modern Russian TV language _"babu*sh*ka"_. I don't know what caused that change s > sh. It's hardly from Germans )) Russian marine language definitely from Dutch, for example _"kneht"_ (knecht), _"kil"_ (kiel), _"*sh*turwal"_ (*s*tuur).


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