# First Nations



## yuechu

大家好！

I just looked up how to say "First Nations" in Chinese and found the translation 第一民族. Would it sound natural in Chinese to say "他(or 她）是第一民族。"? (He or She is First Nations?) Even in English, it might require explanation if the person was not familiar with the term. I'm curious though as to how it sounds in Chinese.
Thanks!


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## SimonTsai

It sounds odd, and no one would say that. It reminds me of the anime character 爆豪 (who is always the number one).


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## yuechu

Thanks, Simon!
How about 他是（？）属于第一民族?


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## SuperXW

yuechu said:


> Even in English, it might require explanation if the person was not familiar with the term.


It is odd because of the term "First Nations", not the sentence.
No matter how you alter the expression, you cannot change the term "First Nations / 第一民族". The only way is to explain the term right after it.


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## Huanhuan04

yuechu said:


> 大家好！
> 
> I just looked up how to say "First Nations" in Chinese and found the translation 第一民族. Would it sound natural in Chinese to say "他(or 她）是第一民族。"? (He or She is First Nations?) Even in English, it might require explanation if the person was not familiar with the term. I'm curious though as to how it sounds in Chinese.
> Thanks!



First Nation should be "原住民"。 Or “土著”


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## Skatinginbc

first: 最初的, 最先的
nation: 邦, 國, 部落 (a tribe or federation of tribes, as of American Indians)
nations: 邦國, 部落群，社群
First Nations: 原生邦國, 原生部落(群)
First Peoples: 原住民族


yuechu said:


> Would it sound natural in Chinese to say "他(or 她）是第一民族。"?


*他是* (美洲) *原住民* (i.e., 印地安族), as opposed to the Inuit (依努特族, 北極原住民) and the Métis (梅提斯族, 混血原住民)。


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## yuechu

Thanks, SuperXW, Huanhuan and Skatinginbc!


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## Skatinginbc

原住民 (politically correct) ≠ 土人/土番/土著 (politically incorrect)
First Nations (politically correct) ≠ Aborigines (politically incorrect)


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## Oswinw011

yuechu said:


> 大家好！
> 
> I just looked up how to say "First Nations" in Chinese and found the translation 第一民族. Would it sound natural in Chinese to say "他(or 她）是第一民族。"


Hi, to me it's fine as it is, strange though it may sound the first time people are exposed to this word. I wouldn't choose a word other than 第一民族 given that 第一民族 is a political term specifically used to refer to any of the numerous aboriginal groups formally recognized by the Canadian government under the federal Indian Act of 1876(Edit1: Act and translation falsely quoted. Original Source: *The American Heritage Dictionary[English-Chinese version], Usage: First nation. Chinese translation: 第一民族; OALD7-E&C: First nations, Chinese:原始部落居民[不包括因努伊特人或混血的加拿大土著居民] *). 原住民 or 土著 has a wider application, which in turn leads to the change of meaning of First Nations in Chinese, switching from a term with distinctive meanings to the one that can be applied to Native American, the least thing the indigenous community in Canada would like to see.
There's more to it than finding a naturally-sounded translated term. I'd leave aside a "natural" translated one in favor of a "strange" without sacrificing the accuracy.


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## yuechu

Thanks, Oswinw011!


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## Skatinginbc

Oswinw011 said:


> I'd leave aside a "natural" translated one in favor of a "strange" *without sacrificing the accuracy*.


But 第一民族 is NOT an accurate translation.  "_First_" does not mean "第一" and "_nations_" does not mean "民族" (peoples) in "_First Nations_".
First *Nations ≠* First *Peoples *


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## Oswinw011

Skatinginbc said:


> But 第一民族 is NOT an accurate translation.  "_First_" does not mean "第一" and "_nations_" does not mean "民族" (peoples) in "_First Nations_".
> First *Nations ≠* First *Peoples *


For your information.
1.第一民族.
2.*原住民是最早居住在加拿大的居民**。*他们拥有世代相传的许多精神信仰和文化传统。他们居住在加拿大各个地区。
_1982年《宪法》_ 承认加拿大三大原住民族群：第一民族（First Nations，曾称为“印第安人”）；因纽特人（Inuit，也称爱斯基摩人），是加拿大的第一个原住民族群；梅蒂人(Métis)，是在加拿大殖民地开拓后出现的。

If you would change the established phrase at all--First Nation/第一民族(perceived by me as 第一大的主体民族[Edit2: the majority of the population in Canada are European Canadians with 72.9 percent; the majority of indigenous people are First Nations with 4.9% of the total population and 60% out of total indigenous people in 2016. Source: Profile of Indigenous Canada: Trends and data needs | Linking Indigenous Communities with Regional Development in Canada | OECD iLibrary ]) because you think it can't convey such meaning as the predominant indigenous peoples in Canada south of the Arctic Circle, I'd recommend avoiding *原住民*.

Edit3
My opinions: 1.第一民族 is not an accurate translation for First Nation, but I will go with the flow using this conventional translated phrase in my Chinese writing--some descriptive grammatical rules, albeit wrong initially, could be widely received later; so could this term in my view. 2.My translation of First Nations goes with* OALD7-E&C: 原始部落居民[不包括因努伊特人或混血的加拿大土著居民] or 第一民族人。*3. As mentioned before*, *I'm not in favor of the translation原住民, because it includes First Nations, Inuit, and Métis, and Americans Indians can be called 原住民*. *4.I've never tried to prove anything. No one ever paid me to give a one hundred percent correct answer, and out of interest I was, am and will be trying to make my reply as correct as possible given the chance, although it takes some time to type. If there are mistakes, you are welcome to point them out. Blowing them out of proportion is not a sensible decision.


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## Skatinginbc

Just for your information:
(1) Constitution Act 1982, Section 35: "_In this Act, 'aboriginal peoples of Canada' includes the *Indian*, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada_." ==> It does not employ the phrase "First Nations."
(2) The error-plagued article you cited clearly says  因纽特人 (who are NOT First Nations peoples of Canada)  是加拿大的第一个原住民族群, which implies that First Nations peoples either (1) *不是*加拿大的*第一个*原住民族群 or (2) *不是*加拿大唯一的*第一个*原住民族群.


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## Oswinw011

Skatinginbc said:


> 爁翻譯, 無中生有的文章也拿來當憑證!!


It's from the Canadian government website. I don't know why you are so triggered.


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## Skatinginbc

Aboriginal peoples in Canada include Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples. That is to say, they include (1) Indian peoples (or First Nations peoples) of Canada, (2) Inuit peoples of Canada, and (3) Métis peoples of Canada.

"First Nations peoples of Canada" ==> Obviously, "nations" and "peoples" do not mean the same.
First *Nations *(i.e, Indians)* ≠* First *Peoples *(= Indians + Inuit + Métis)


Oswinw011 said:


> 第一大的主体民族


You are apparently misled by the erroneous translation "第一" (i.e., 排在最前的, 最好的, 最棒的, 首要的, 最重要的).  The inuit and Métis are also part of the First Peoples of Canada, but they are NOT 第一大的主体民族.  Anyway,  加拿大的第一大主体民族 are European.

First Nations peoples 是 the *first* (= the *earliest 最先最早*) 接觸歐洲移民的原住民 .

"_First Nation_" (an organized aboriginal group or community, especially any of the bands officially recognized by the Canadian government.) as a noun is a politically correct replacement for "Indian Band".

*nation* 民邦 (= "a body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own.") *= band* 族團 (a governing unit of Indians or "a body of Indians" as defined by the I876 Indian Act).

"_First Nations_" as a collective term refers to "Indians of Canada" or "all Indians in Canada" (加拿大的印第安原住民).  It can also serve as an adjective (e.g, "He is First Nations") meaning "_of or belonging to the First Nations_."

*原住民 vs. * *土著*

原住民: 原先就已經住在那裡的民族.  ==> 漢族殖民台灣前就已經住在那裡的民族是台灣的原住民.  歐人殖民加拿大前就已經住在那裡的民族是加拿大的原住民.  印第安人和因紐特人 (i.e., 愛斯基摩人) 都是加拿大的原住民.  梅蒂人(Métis) 是歐人和原住民的混種, 不是在歐人殖民前就已住在那裡的民族, 因此在我心中不算作 "原住民", 但仍算得上 "土著" (著土常居, 世居本地的人) and "_indigenous_" (originating, growing, and produced in a certain region).  印第安人是在加拿大 "本土" (国家领土中最大最主要的一块) 最早 (les premiers) 建立民邦族團的原住民, 是故稱為 "First Nations (Premières Nations)".  因紐特人 (i.e., 愛斯基摩人) 則是加拿大北疆 (as opposed to 本土) 的原住民.


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## Lamb67

国族, is for nations while first means number one in a list.😁Nation - WordReference.com 英汉词典
I noted " six American Indian nations" in it and they are quite similar in concept
In China we used give names to factories and schools in a sequential and consecutive order .


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## Skatinginbc

Lamb67 said:


> 国族, is for nations


In this article 維基百科-民族, it clearly states that "民族一词在中英翻译时也十分容易混淆。Ethnic group 和 Nation 经常被翻译为民族，然而更精确地应分别译为族群和国族。"  ==> That is exactly my point: "民族" is not an accurate translation of "nation".


Lamb67 said:


> first means number one in a list.


It would be blatantly "politically *incorrect*" and there would be a public outcry if 漢人 (or any 民族) proclaim themselves as the 第一民族 of China. Don't forget "First Nations" is supposed to be a politically correct term, and I expect its Chinese translation should be politically correct as well.


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## Lamb67

You are applying double standard here🤩
Why is it correct to say "first nations" in English while it is incorrect in Chinese?


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## Skatinginbc

Lamb67 said:


> Why is it correct to say "first nations" in English while it is incorrect in Chinese?


The reason is that people would immediately think of the "earliest nations" when they hear "First Nations" in English, whereas people would immediately think of the "best or most important people" when they hear "第一民族" in Chinese.  The former is politically correct, whereas the latter is politically incorrect. 天下第一峰 does not mean "the _first_ (=oldest or earliest) mountain peak in the world."  加國第一美人 does not mean "the _first_ (= earliest) beautiful woman of Canada." 加國第一民族 does not mean "the _First_ Nations of Canada."

"Nations" (邦族) is a sociological or cultural term, whereas "peoples" (民族) is a biological or genetic term.

邦 connotes "culture" (e.g., 禮義之邦) or "society" (e.g., 烏托邦) more than 國 does.
國籍 vs. 邦貫
dual citizenship 雙重國籍 vs. dual nationality 雙重邦籍


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## Huanhuan04

Skatinginbc said:


> 原住民 (politically correct) ≠ 土人/土番/土著 (politically incorrect)
> First Nations (politically correct) ≠ Aborigines (politically incorrect)



之前没有注意到这个问题，特意去查了下字典，土著在新华字典里面有解释： 指世世代代居住在本地的人：土著守旧者日贫。 原住民反而没有查到。

我印象里原住民这个词应该是在台湾地区使用的比较多，普通话里面好像不太用。 

看看有没有语言学专业的来解惑一下吧。


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## Skatinginbc

Connotations 不同:

土著 ==> negative (e.g., 世代著於一土, 很少接觸外世, 長期沒進化、未開化的土包民族)









原住民 ==> neutral
台灣原住民



日本原住民:



加拿大原住民:


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