# "When" clauses in Tagalog



## Maginoo

Hello all,

I'm trying to figure out the rules for translating English "when" adverbial clauses into Tagalog.  If I want to say "I saw the statue of Lapu-Lapu when I was in Manila", using a sentence of the form:

Nakito ko ang estatwa ni Lapu-Lapu [blank] nasa Maynila ako.

-- I am told that the only word that can go in the blank is "noong" or possibly "nung" which is an alternate spelling -- can anyone confirm this?

On the other hand, I have it on good authority that the following translations are correct:

Call me when you get home. --> Tawagan mo ako kapag nasa bahay ka na.

He brings me a present when he comes home.  --> Dinadalhan niya ako ng regalo pag pumupunta sa bahay.

I accidentally kicked the dog when I sat down.  --> Nasipa ko ang aso nila nang umupo ako.  (Tagalog Conjugations, Lowe/Mercer, p. 48)

The day will soon come when man can travel to Mars. --> Darating ang araw na makakapunta ang tao sa Mars.    

I understand that "pag" is probably just an abbreviation of "kapag", but this still leaves us with four different (non-interchangeable) words for "when": noong, kapag, nang, na.

I'm thinking that "kapag" is for present and future tenses, "noong" for a past situation without a verb, "nang" for a past action with a verb.  Can anyone confirm/deny/clarify this?

Then for even more added confusion we have sentences such as:

What do you want to be when you grow up? --> Ano'ng gusto mong maging, paglaki mo?

which have no word corresponding to "when".

Do any of the grammar books have rules to explain all this?

Thanks,
Maginoo


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## DotterKat

You got it right for the most part.



Maginoo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the rules for translating English "when" adverbial clauses into Tagalog.  If I want to say "I saw the statue of Lapu-Lapu when I was in Manila", using a sentence of the form:
> 
> Nakito ko ang estatwa ni Lapu-Lapu [blank] nasa Maynila ako.
> 
> -- I am told that the only word that can go in the blank is "noong" or possibly "nung" which is an alternate spelling -- can anyone confirm this?......I'm thinking that .... "noong" (is used) for a past situation without a verb,



_Noong_ can be used to indicate a past event with or without a verb:

Nakita ko ang estatwa ni Lapu-Lapu noong bata pa ako.
Nakita ko  ang estatwa ni Lapu-Lapu noong _nakatira_ ako sa Pilipinas.



Maginoo said:


> On the other hand, I have it on good authority that the following translations are correct:
> 
> Call me when you get home. --> Tawagan mo ako kapag nasa bahay ka na.
> 
> He brings me a present when he comes home.  --> Dinadalhan niya ako ng regalo pag pumupunta sa bahay.



_Kapag _is used in conditional sentences. For these  factual effects to occur:

1)Dinadalhan niya ako ng regalo....
2)Tawagan mo ako....

The _when/whenever_ or _pag/kapag _clauses need to be fulfilled first:

1)....kapag pumupunta (siya) sa bahay.
2)....kapag nasa bahay ka na.



Maginoo said:


> Then for even more added confusion we have sentences such as:
> 
> What do you want to be when you grow up? --> Ano'ng gusto mong maging, paglaki mo?
> 
> which have no word corresponding to "when".


This is tricky because the noun _paglaki_ (growth, increase in size) is commonly used interchangeably with the past participle of _to grow _(grown). Strictly speaking, _paglaki_ is a noun that should be used like this:

Mabilis ang _paglaki_ ng populasyon ng Maynila. (Population _growth_ in Manila is fast.)
Ang pagbibigay ng mga masusustansyang pagkain ay makabubuti sa _paglaki_ ng isang bata. (Feeding a child nutritious food would be good for its _growth_).

On the other hand, when people say _Ano'ng gusto mo maging paglaki mo? _they are actually (again) using _pag/ kapag_ in a conditional sentence, specifically a predictive conditional sentence:

(What do you want to be/ What do you want to do) when you grow up?

Again, _when_ introduces the conditional clause that has to be fulfilled first (at least in theory) before the non-conditional clause can be answered.

In short, Ano'ng gusto mo maging paglaki mo? is actually:

Ano'ng gusto mo maging _pag/kapag_ malaki ka na?

However, the usage of paglaki as the past participle (when you are grown) is very prevalent that one simply accepts it.


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## daviddem

For more info, a formal treatment and more cases of time adverbs / time adverbial clauses, you can also refer to Schachter's Tagalog Reference Grammar. Among others:
paragraph 6.15.2.b for your example with noong
paragraph 6.15.1 for your example with (ka)pag
paragraph 6.15.5.b for your example with nang
paragraph 6.8.3 for your paglaki example. For Schachter, paglaki is a gerund (paragraph 3.26).

In the sentence "Darating ang araw na makakapunta ang tao sa Mars", "araw na makakapunta ang tao sa Mars" is what Schachter calls a modification construction (paragraph 3.11 for intro to MCs):
- araw is the noun head of the MC
- "makakapunta ang tao sa Mars" is the modifier of the MC
- the head and modifier are linked by the linker na/-ng*
- the matrix sentence is "Darating ang araw." -> The day will arrive.
- the constituent sentence is "Makakapunta ang tao sa Mars ang araw." -> This is the day man is able to go to Mars. (lit: The day is [the one] when man is able to go to Mars.). In this constituent sentence, "Makakapunta ang tao sa Mars" is a time-adverbial clause used as pseudo-predicate (6.8.5 for time adverbs as pseudo-predicates, 6.14 and 6.15 for adverbial clauses). If this clause was not used as a pseudo-predicate, it would be introduced by kung or (ka)pag: Kung / (Ka)pag  makakapunta ang tao sa Mars, masaya ako. -> If/When man is able to go to Mars, I will be happy.

* note that according to Schachter, the linker na/-ng should not be used here and the head and modifier should just be juxtaposed without linker (3.19): "Darating ang araw makakapunta ang tao sa Mars."


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## mataripis

Maginoo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the rules for translating English "when" adverbial clauses into Tagalog.  If I want to say "I saw the statue of Lapu-Lapu when I was in Manila", using a sentence of the form:
> 
> Nakito ko ang estatwa ni Lapu-Lapu [blank] nasa Maynila ako.
> 
> -- I am told that the only word that can go in the blank is "noong" or possibly "nung" which is an alternate spelling -- can anyone confirm this?
> 
> On the other hand, I have it on good authority that the following translations are correct:
> 
> Call me when you get home. --> Tawagan mo ako kapag nasa bahay ka na.
> 
> He brings me a present when he comes home.  --> Dinadalhan niya ako ng regalo pag pumupunta sa bahay.
> 
> I accidentally kicked the dog when I sat down.  --> Nasipa ko ang aso nila nang umupo ako.  (Tagalog Conjugations, Lowe/Mercer, p. 48)
> 
> The day will soon come when man can travel to Mars. --> Darating ang araw na makakapunta ang tao sa Mars.
> 
> I understand that "pag" is probably just an abbreviation of "kapag", but this still leaves us with four different (non-interchangeable) words for "when": noong, kapag, nang, na.
> 
> I'm thinking that "kapag" is for present and future tenses, "noong" for a past situation without a verb, "nang" for a past action with a verb.  Can anyone confirm/deny/clarify this?
> 
> Then for even more added confusion we have sentences such as:
> 
> What do you want to be when you grow up? --> Ano'ng gusto mong maging, paglaki mo?
> 
> which have no word corresponding to "when".
> 
> Do any of the grammar books have rules to explain all this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Maginoo


Dotterkat can explain.But here are my translations of your given samples.1.)Nakita ko ang Estatwa ni Lapu Lapu nang/nuong nasa Maynila ako.    2.)Kapag nasa  bahay ka na, tawagan mo ako. 3.) Tuwing paparito siya sa bahay ay nagdadala siya sa akin ng pasalubong. 4.)Sa pagkakaupo kong bigla, nasipa ko ang aso ng di sinasadya. 5.) Darating ang panahon/araw na mararating din ng mga Tao ang Planetang Mars. 5.) Anong hinahangad mo pag malaki ka na?      I heard these from Tagalog Speakers of the south many years ago, sound clear to me.


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## latchiloya

Maginoo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I understand that "pag" is probably just an abbreviation of "kapag", but this still leaves us with four different (non-interchangeable) words for "when": noong, kapag, nang, na.



Well, every citation you made was correct. "pag" as you mention as an abbreviation of "kapag" is apparently justifiable in many cases particular to the Tagalog speakers. But if you are going to consider the case of the other languages specially in Visayas, from where Tagalog is theoretically said to come from, "pag" is the dominant conjunction over the others--that denotes _"at, in or during which time"--_if not _"kung".

_hinay lang *pag *nagakaon. (_Hiligaynon)_
hinay lang *pag *kumakain. (_Tagalog)_
_slow down *when *eating. (English)_

libre tanan *pag *ako nagmagaranun. (_Hiligaynon) **_
libre lahat *pag *ako yumaman. (_Tagalog) **_
_everythin's free *when *I get rich. (__English)_



Maginoo said:


> I'm thinking that "kapag" is for present and future tenses, "noong" for a past situation without a verb, "nang" for a past action with a verb.



It is considerably correct for "*kapag*"/"*pag*", yet I would say it considers no tense that it only denotes strictly as to _"*which time: at, in or during*" _so as to the english counterpart _"*when*",_ if there would be it is with the inflection of the verb.



Maginoo said:


> Can anyone confirm/deny/clarify this?
> 
> Then for even more added confusion we have sentences such as:
> 
> What do you want to be when you grow up? --> Ano'ng gusto mong maging, paglaki mo?
> 
> which have no word corresponding to "when".



I want to say, "thank you!". good thing you made such a proposition as this. It certainly opens the mind of anybody who reads this thread.
This is actually a very good argument.

_Ano'ng gusto mong maging, paglaki mo?

_I would say,this context:

_Ano'ng gusto mong maging, pag laki mo?

_I would suggest placing a space between _"pag" _and _"laki"_. As we were saying here in this thread _"when"_ is equivalent to _"pag"_. To be justifiable enough lets put it in a different way:

_pag *laki* mo?
pag l*umaki *ka?

_I can not cite any book at this time, but many considers that a basic form of a Tagalog verb (e.g. laki) is equivalent to -um- form of a verb(e.g. lumaki) and both as infinitive. with the two examples it justifies my proposition that placing a "space" in between makes a difference and clarification with the grammatical meaning rather than to conjugate it and misunderstood as a verb inflection not a conjunction.

In a perspective of a Visayas speaker, it is of justification  that "pag" has the only equivalent denotation of the English "when".



Maginoo said:


> Do any of the grammar books have rules to explain all this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Maginoo



Well, apart from the fact that every language changes as time does, Tagalog Language has a lot of applications unstudied that i would consider is not far from being a natural language.^^


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## Maginoo

Ok!  Well thanks to all of you for these responses.  I have a lot more to think about now.

I must say, I really underestimated the subtlety and complexity of this language when I first started out.  But you've all helped me get a few steps closer to appreciating it here.  Thanks again,

Maginoo


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## Maginoo

Just as one more note, I found an example using yet another word for "when", i.e. "pagka":

    Maipapa-ayos mo iyán pagka may pera ka mulî.  _You'll be able to get that fixed when you have money again. 
_
(This is from Tagalog Conjugations, Lowe/Mercer, p. 60)

Can I assume that "pagka" is always interchangeable with "pag" and "kapag"?


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## DotterKat

Maginoo said:


> ...Maipapa-ayos mo iyán pagka may pera ka mulî. _You'll be able to get that fixed when you have money again._
> 
> ...Can I assume that "pagka" is always interchangeable with "pag" and "kapag"?



Frequently, but not always. One big exception is that _pag_ and _pagka_ can be directly affixed to a verb to mean _as soon as _or _the moment that _(as opposed to the _when_ of kapag).

Pag-alis/Pagkaalis mo kanina, nasira uli yung pinaayos mo ([As soon as/The moment that] you left, that thing that you had fixed broke down again).


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## Maginoo

Ok, thanks.  I guess this ties in with latchiloya's comment above about "pag laki" vs. "paglaki".


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