# Ancient and modern: Νους, νοειν, νοήματα



## Veggy

hi, I am reading a book in italian, it talks among other things about philosophy and very often talking about Aristotele the word "nous" is mentioned. As it is written in italic I suppose it's a greek word or ancient greek.
Can anyone tell me the exact meaning?
Thanks


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## CrepiIlLupo

ciao veggy 

Ho visto questa parola prima, e penso che si traduce letteralmente a "mente" in italiano.  

νους (nous), seconda me, sembra la "psiche" di qualcuno, mentre una parola come "cervello" puo' essere traduce meglio a μυαλό (myalo) in Greco.  

Spero che mi puoi capire, sto parlando l'italiano per sette mese da solo, e non mi sono abituato a scrivere cosi'.  Ma provo da migliorare sempre, e correzione sono accolte..  

Can natives confirm?  νους = more like mind, μυαλό = more like brain?


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## Tetina

Your explanation is very good íïõò=mind / ìõáëü= brain. The difference is very subtle.


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## Veggy

Thank you so much both of you.
CrepiIlLupo: could you tell me if vouç and nous are the same word?
Tetina: could you write the words in greek using latiin letters so I can read the difference between mind and brain?
Thanks


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## CrepiIlLupo

Veggy,

si scrive νους in Greco, e si sarebbe scrive "nous" in Italiano/Inglese, perche la lettera "v" in Greco sembra la lettera "n" in Inglese/Italiano.  

Quindi νους e nous sono le stesse cose, uno si scrive in Greco, e uno si cambia che persone chi non parlano Greco possano leggerlo.

Spero che ti aiutassi!

Ciao


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## Veggy

Si, si mi ha molto aiutato, grazie. Your italian is good just needs a little practice.


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## ireney

Just a note: μυαλό (Myalo) is the modern word for brain (I think it's medieval but don't ask me exactly when it appeared  ). It _can_ also mean "understanding", exactly like brain.

In Aristotle's time, the gooey matter in our heads was called ἐγκέφαλος (egkefalos), a word still widely used.

I don't know Italian but isn't "psiche" ψυχή? "Mente" seems like the perfect translation since it is in all probability derived from the Latin "mens" which I know to be the perfect translation of nous (e.g. we translated "mens" in "mens sana in corpore sano" with "nous")


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## Tetina

Veggy said:


> Thank you so much both of you.
> CrepiIlLupo: could you tell me if vouç and nous are the same word?
> Tetina: could you write the words in greek using latiin letters so I can read the difference between mind and brain?
> Thanks


 

nous =íïýò =mind
  "í" = "n"
"ïõ" = "u"                  


mialo =ìõáëü = brain
"õ" = é


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## marilou

Ciao sono anche io italiana, "nous" in greco moderno è la mente mentre "mialò" e "engkefalo" indicano il cervello. Nous è qualcosa di meno materiale quindi riferito anche al pensiero. Nootropia significa mentalità da nous+tropous(modi)...spero di essere stata chiara. Io conosco bene solo il greco moderno quindi non ti posso aiutare con il greco antico...


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## Veggy

Grazie a tutti di cuore. Infatti andando avanti con la lettura, alla ripetizione di "nous" dice: per Aristotele, organo destinato alla visione della verità. Dunque le spiegazioni da voi date sono perfette. Grazie


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## Veggy

Sempre nello stesso libro e sempre attribuito ad Aristotele trovo ora un'altra parola che non viene tradotta nel testo: "noein". 
Sarà il pensiero del "nous"?
grazie


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## modus.irrealis

noein (νοεῖν) is the infinitive of a verb that roughly means "perceive by the mind" or "think." It can also mean other things but I think this is its basic meaning in philosophical works.

(My minimal knowledge of Italian let me kind of figure out what you were asking but there was no way I could respond in Italian )


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## Veggy

Thanks modus, that is what I thought when I said in italian "pensiero". You have just confirmed. I suppose "noemasin" is the plural of noein which you say is a verb but could it be a substantive also? 
There are all these words like "phantasia" or"pathemata" wich I can guess because of their similarity with latin or italian but others are too far off, that's why I come to ask in the forum
thanks again to all who answered.


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## modus.irrealis

Ah -- I looked up "pensiero" in the dictionary and thought it could only mean "thought" in the sense of "idea" but if it can refer to the process of intellectual-perception/thinking as well, then it could be a good translation of "noein" (although "noein" is still a form of a verb so you have to be careful). "noemasin," on the other hand, is a plural form (the dative plural to be precise) of "noema," which is a noun which can mean "what is thought."


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## Veggy

So, if I understand well, nous is the mind, noein is the activity of the mind, the thinking and noemasin are the thoughts. 
Am I right ?


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## modus.irrealis

That seems roughly right to me.


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## parakseno

In Koine at least it seems to have that meaning. One of my dictionaries quotes an example where νοήματα (noemata/ noimata(Modern Greek) - Nominative plural) is translated as "thoughts" or "plans".


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## marilou

Noima in greco moderno è significato, senso di una cosa


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## anthodocheio

Noima in greco moderno  ...is "meaning"


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## ireney

Noemata in ancient Greek can be either thoughts or meaning with "thoughts" or "things conceived in/with the mind" being the most prominent one.

And now I'll put my mod hat  Any further discussion about any but the original word should be done in a separate thread


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