# FR: de le / du - contraction ?



## cassius99

Can somone tell me when I *shouldn't* transform _de le_ to _du_, I really can't remember the rule for this.

I'm trying to say

_Il est impossibe de le faire_

And I'm not sure if it should be

_Il est impossible du faire_

Merci bien en avance mes amis.

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one. See also the following related discussions:
FR: de les / des - contraction ?
FR: du / de l' - contraction devant un mot masculin commençant par une voyelle ?
FR: de Le Monde / du Monde - contraction de l'article dans les titres d'œuvres et de journaux
FR: du Mans, de Le Corbusier, des Nuls - contraction de l'article devant les noms propres


----------



## irish_elmo

The multiple meanings of the word "le" cause this confusion. 

Case One:
"Le" is most commonly translated by the word "the" when in French it is used as the definite article for masculine singular nouns. 
_Je veux (de + le) *du* café.
Je vais (à + le) *au* bar._

Case Two:
"Le" can also be used as a direct object pronoun - meaning "him" or "it" (for a masculine object, or for a neutral object... the gender of which has not yet been stated or is not inherent in the object).
_Tu es obligé *de le* dire.
J'ai du mal *à le* prononcer._

When combined with de or à, it is only the "le" of Case One that becomes du or au.


----------



## irish_elmo

Interestingly (for me at least  ), this is so in both Case One and Case Two outlined in my earlier post.

Case One
_Il y a de l'orage dans l'air._

Case Two
_On m'a demandé de l'oublier._

The same goes for the preposition "à".


----------



## Raylin

Si je voudrais dire quelque chose comme 'Je viens de faire quelque chose' mais l'objet a été déjà mentionné donc j'utilise le pronom 'le', est-ce qu'il forme 'du' comme:

Je viens du faire

?


----------



## xtrasystole

No, it doesn't make sense.
You could say: _'je viens de* le* faire'_ or _'Je viens de faire *cela*'_.


----------



## Raylin

Right. So you don't amalgamate 'de + le = du', or 'de + les = des' when they're pronouns?


----------



## xtrasystole

Umm... Off hand, I wouldn't be able to explain the grammar rule. However, you don't contract _'de + le = du'_ in the examples you gave.


----------



## Sunlife

Bonjour,

Pour répondre à ta question, on dirait:

"Je viens *de le* faire".

As a rule, you don't have "de + le" in French except when "le" is a "pronom objet direct", which means when "le" refers to somebody or something previously mentionned.

"Du" is totally different as it is a "partitive article". So "de +le" becomes "du" only when "le" is a definite article.
Ex: Je prends *du* pain, du café. (de+le).
You never have "du" before a verb.


----------



## xtrasystole

Some examples:

'As-tu fait ton travail de classe ?
-- Oui, je viens de *le* faire'.

'As-tu nettoyé tes chaussures ?
-- Oui, je viens de *les* nettoyer'.


----------



## Rpkx

Hi,

du = de le (definite article), is always followed by a noun.

Bye,


----------



## paulio

exactly,
de + le (as article) = du
de + le (as pronoun) = de le

The same is true of à
eg Je m'interessait à le faire - I was interested in doing it...


----------



## DearPrudence

Indeed you contract
"de + le" -> "du" when "le" is an article
*"le jouet de le du garçon"*

But when "le/les" is a pronoun, there is no contraction:
*"je viens de le faire"
"je viens de les écrire"* (I've just written them (talking about letters/words for instance)


----------



## Grégoire

I was doing an exercise on verbs with prepositions, and I saw this construction when I checked the answer key:

"Il faut les dissuader *de le* faire."

Are there times when de and le don't contract to du or is this a mistake in the book?

thank you


----------



## ascoltate

de + le -> du   when "le" is the article "le" (e.g., "le livre")
de + le do *not* contract when "le" is the pronoun (replacing "him" or "it")


----------



## frantriesfrench

Je voudrais donner une citation changée à mon amour - l'original est: 'Un coeur n'est juste que s'il bat au rythme des autres coeurs.', mais je voudrais dire:
'Mon coeur n'est juste que s'il bat au rythme de le tien'
Est-cela correcte ou doit-on dire '... du tien'?
Merci
Fran
_Corrigez mes erreurs svp.  Merci d'avance_


----------



## FBC

"de le" devient systématiquement "du" (il doit y avoir des exceptions mais je ne les vois pas), donc ici aussi : "...du tien".


----------



## Micia93

on peut voir "de le" dans une phrase comme : "je viens _*de le*_ voir" qui ennuie tant nos amis anglophones ! c'est un autre contexte, mais qui peut perturber !

frantiesfrench, in this case, it just means : "I've just seen him" (je viens de voir lui, if you prefer, which is far uncorrect and replaced by "de le voir")


----------



## ticktock10

Is there ever a time when one needs to keep the 'de' and thus say 'de le...'? Or does it ALWAYS convert to 'du'?


----------



## Grop

Ah, there's the exception of proper nouns of persons including "le". We may say "un discours de Le Pen" for instance. This does not apply to city names: le Havre -> Je viens du Havre.

Furthermore, it only applies to the article, not to the pronoun: "Il s'est bien gardé de le dire."


----------



## ticktock10

That's what I was trying to get at, I was sure I had been taught once that there was an exception to the rule (as always when learning a language as far as I can see!) - thanks Grop


----------



## itka

Oui...enfin, sauf dans le cas où il s'agit d'une préposition suivie du pronom "le" :
_"J'ai oublié de le faire" = J'ai oublié de faire le ménage

_Lorsque "le" est un article (= un déterminant) il se combine toujours avec la préposition "de" pour donner "du".

_"Je mange du pain_ (= de+le pain)


----------



## lacarapacedelatortue

Bonjour,

Je suis confusée!  Si je veux dire: <You went out of your way to find it for me>, est-ce que je dirais: <Vous avez fait des efforts du chercher pour moi>?   Je suppose que de + le (un objet direct) devrait "du", mais je ne suis pas sure.  Est-ce que j'ai raison?

Merci d'avance!


----------



## janpol

Je dirais : "vous avez fait des efforts afin de le trouver pour moi"


----------



## Maître Capello

_De + le_ becomes _du_ only when _le_ is the definite article. But here _le_ is a pronoun. 

_Vous vous êtes donné du mal afin *de le* trouver pour moi. 
Vous vous êtes donné du mal afin *du* trouver pour moi. _


----------



## Zuccherro

hello

i just read this in a magazine: "On se pique de le savoir ..." (< a title for one of the comments in the feedback part)

why did they write "de le savoir"? and not "du savoir"?


----------



## bloomiegirl

Because in this case, "_le_" is not the definite article "the"; it's the direct object "it." 
The contraction "_du_" (and its cousin "_des_") is used only for the partitive "_de_" plus the definite article.


----------



## 33ZoZo

Bonjour à tous, j'ai besoin de votre aide.  J'aimerais dire en français "I gave the book to a friend *before I read it*."  Je ne suis pas sûre si je doive dire "*avant de le* *lire*" ou "*avant du lire*."

Merci d'avance pour votre aide.


----------



## nutcase7

'avant de le lire' is correct. 'avant du...' does not exist in French.

avant de/d' + verb in infinitive   e.g avant de partir   _before leaving     _avant d'agir   _before acting_
avant + noun                           e.g. avant le départ  _before departure_
avant on its own and usually  followed by a coma means _before / in the past _with the idea that it is something that is over.
                                              e.g. Avant, j'allais souvent au cinéma. _Before, I often used to go to the movie-theatre. (but now I don't anymore)_
Nutcase 7


----------



## Maître Capello

As a matter of fact, only the *definite article* _le_ contracts with the preposition _de_ to _du_ (or with _à_ to _au_); the *direct object pronoun* _le_ remains unaffected by prepositions.


----------



## 33ZoZo

Bien sûr, je ne pensais pas.  Merci Maître Capello. We are always drilled to make the contractions but I should have taken more time to think about the individual parts of speech.


----------

