# Pain is inevitable



## Linguiste12

Hi, 

can someone help me how to translate "pain is inevitable" (suffering is optional)

I translated it : "Dolor est necesse" but I'm not sure if it's correct or if it should be "Dolor necesse est" or even if it's correct, because i found "necesse est" only in connection with a verb, so I'm not sure if i can replace the verb with a noun.

Thank you for help.


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## Scholiast

saluete amici! And a warm welcome to the best Latin Forum in the world, Linguiste12.

Now we have a little problem with the way Linguiste poses the question:


Linguiste12 said:


> how to translate "pain is inevitable" (suffering is optional)


"Pain is inevitable" is not the same thing as "suffering is optional". Perhaps you meant "Suffering is _not_ optional"?
If so, then perhaps _dolor ineluctabilis est_; but that is not my only or last suggestion, as there are lots of tags from Latin literature which will express much the same thought. It might perhaps help if Linguiste12 could indicate the context and purpose for which this translation is needed.

Σ


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## Linguiste12

Sorry for the confusion. It's a phrase "Pain is inevitable, (but) suffering is optional" - you feel pain, although you cry or not - because whatever you do, you cannot evade the pain.

That's what i want to translate, but only the first part - "Pain is inevitable", that's why i wrote the rest into parentheses.

I know that there's a difference between inevitable and necessary, but what the correct form if i would like to use "necessary" in this case?


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## metaphrastes

Linguiste12, for _necessary _there are various Latin words from the same word: _necessarius, necesse _and_ necessum, _being _necessum _an older (ante-classic) form of _necesse _(and some source gives also the forms _necessis _and _necessus_)_. _I cannot say what form would be in better style or more appropriate.

Now, from Lewis-Short dictionary we get that all these synonymous bear also the meaning of _unavoidable,_ _inevitable, _besides the idea of _needful, necessary.
_
From what I know, the old concept of _need _(Greek ἀνάγκη-anánke) was much stronger than today, opposing or even excluding what is _voluntary. _Some Greeks even personified _anánke _as a deity more powerful than all Greek pantheon of gods (Zeus, Pluto, &c) being them subject too to _need, _as all of us, mortal beings. Sure, _anánke _was thought also as a philosophical concept but, from what I know, in an absolute, unavoidable sense. Not as today one would say: _"Well, I have the need to leave smoking tobacco, but... maybe next year!" _in that _need _leaves some room for choice, even for a bad choice.

My impression is that some of this _strong _concept of need, similar to _fate_, somewhat entered Latin thought. Lewis-Short dictionary, in many Latin quotes, associates _necessarius _with _fatalis _(_decreed by fate; predetermined_) in opposition to _voluntarius _(_voluntary, willing, controlled by individual will_).

Anyway, no matter my thoughts above (that one might discuss, sure) the fact remains that in Latin the meaning of _necessarius _or _necesse _overlaps the meaning of _unavoidable_, being not so clearly distinct as in modern languages (maybe because modern thought is far from being fatalist but rather existentialist, valuing above all human freedom and human will).


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## metaphrastes

Now, if you want to say that suffering is _optional, _you might say _facultativus _or _arbitrarius._


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## Linguiste12

Multas gratias vobis ago


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## metaphrastes

You are welcome  Anyway, I would leave the last word @Scholiast or other member with real, practical knowledge on Latin language.


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## jazyk

Why not the easy way: _dolor inevitabilis est?_


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## Scholiast

Scholiasta de novo SPD

I still think we need more contextual information from Linguiste12 about the purpose of this aphorism.

_necesse est dolere_ is equally possible with _dolor haud vitandus_ or indeed jazyk's formulation (# 8). But I have the impression from Linguiste12's # 3 that more is intended. Something like "Pain is inevitable; but succumbing to it is not", perhaps?

Still somewhat unsure what we are being asked here.

Σ


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