# Which conjugations of verbs are correct on sources such as wiktionary.



## valdur

Unfortunately, conjugation tables are not widespread for learning Greek.

I use wiktionary, and sometimes I run into problems when they suggest two or three conjugations as correct for one thing.

I don't have a problem with that, i just want to know which one is considered "correct"

take for example 
κοιμάμαι - Wiktionary

If you look at the imperfect conjugation, it lists κοιμόμαστε,  κοιμούμαστε,  κοιμόμασταν ALL as acceptable for the 1st person imperfect. Which one is correct? Why are there 3? Below that it lists κοιμόνταν,  κοιμούνταν,  κοιμόντουσαν,  κοιμόντανε ALL as acceptable for 3rd person plural. Which one?!

 I assume the first one in each goes with each other, but it is necessary for example if i use κοιμόμαστε, for 1st person plural, to then use κοιμόνταν for 3rd? And if i choose to use κοιμούμαστε must I then use κοιμούνταν? Or may I use κοιμόνταν,? What is the rule

Is this katharevousa vs demotic? which one is which? 

Thank you!


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## Acestor

Hi, valdur

Consult lexigram.gr.
I understand that you are not aware of this site which contains verb conjugation and noun declension for Ancient and Modern Greek, separately. Modern Greek includes the katharevousa forms that may still be in use.

For Ancient Greek: Αρχαία : Κλίση, Ορθογραφία, Αναγνώριση, Γραμματική (Αρχαία Και Λόγια Ελληνική) - Lexigram
For Modern Greek: Νέα : Κλίση, Ορθογραφία, Αναγνώριση, Γραμματική (Νέα Και Λόγια Ελληνική) - Lexigram

I use it all the time and it has always been very helpful. If you think that there are forms there that are not adequately described as formal or colloquial etc, let's discuss them here.


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## Perseas

valdur said:


> Unfortunately, conjugation tables are not widespread for learning Greek.
> 
> I use wiktionary, and sometimes I run into problems when they suggest two or three conjugations as correct for one thing.
> 
> I don't have a problem with that, i just want to know which one is considered "correct"
> 
> take for example
> κοιμάμαι - Wiktionary
> 
> If you look at the imperfect conjugation, it lists κοιμόμαστε,  κοιμούμαστε,  κοιμόμασταν ALL as acceptable for the 1st person imperfect. Which one is correct? Why are there 3? Below that it lists κοιμόνταν,  κοιμούνταν,  κοιμόντουσαν,  κοιμόντανε ALL as acceptable for 3rd person plural. Which one?!
> 
> I assume the first one in each goes with each other, but it is necessary for example if i use κοιμόμαστε, for 1st person plural, to then use κοιμόνταν for 3rd? And if i choose to use κοιμούμαστε must I then use κοιμούνταν? Or may I use κοιμόνταν,? What is the rule
> 
> Is this katharevousa vs demotic? which one is which?
> 
> Thank you!


Usually, the grammar books of Modern Greek mention two forms in 1st, 2nd and 3rd plural imperfect of medio-passive voice.

Let's take two another example:
λυνόμασταν /λυνόμαστε 
λυνόσασταν /λυνόσαστε 
λύνονταν & λυνόντανε /λυνόντουσαν 

χτυπιόμασταν /χτυπιόμαστε
χτυπιόσασταν /χτυπιόσαστε
χτυπιόνταν  & χτυπιόντανε /χτυπιόντουσαν

I believe the first one is more common (λυνόμασταν, χτυπιόμασταν, λυνόσασταν etc)

In κοιμάμαι (which is demotic Greek) things are maybe more complex because there is the influence of κοιμούμαι which is medieval Greek. Personally I'd say κοιμόμασταν, κοιμόσασταν, κοιμόνταν(ε), however the other forms are also correct.


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## Acestor

Perseas said:


> Personally I'd say κοιμόμασταν, κοιμόσασταν, κοιμόνταν(ε), however the other forms are also correct.


These are the so-called "spoken forms", which I use in writing as well, their main advantage being that they are different from the present tense forms.


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## διαφορετικός

Acestor said:


> For Modern Greek: Νέα : Κλίση, Ορθογραφία, Αναγνώριση, Γραμματική (Νέα Και Λόγια Ελληνική) - Lexigram


This seems to be a useful site, thank you. Till now, I avoided it, because I did not recognize the structure of the information there. But thanks to your recommendation, I tried it again (with more patience), successfully this time.



Acestor said:


> If you think that there are forms there that are not adequately described as formal or colloquial etc


I do not see any description relating to "formal or colloquial" on lexigram.gr, but this would be interesting, in general. Is there such a description on lexigram.gr?


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## Acestor

If you look up κοιμάμαι, in Παρατατικός you will see (λόγ.) for formal and (προφ.) for spoken forms.


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## διαφορετικός

That's right, thank you.


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## διαφορετικός

Type IIb verbs (verbs ending on -είς for 2nd person singular indicative present), such as "αρκώ" or "αποτελώ", are displayed differently in different sources. I have seen this for passive imperative "present" plural (παθητική προστακτική ενεστώτας πληθιντικός):

Is "αρκείστε" a valid imperative form (for passive "present" plural of "αρκώ")?

The following site says "yes":
Λεξικά, Γλώσσα, Εκπαίδευση, Δημοτικό, Γυμνάσιο, Λύκειο, Αρχαία Ελληνικά, Νεοελληνική, Λατινικά - Lexigram

The following page does not contain this verb form, so it seems to say "no":
Ρ10.10

The following grammar text (written in German) also tells me that it does not exist:
Verba - Neugriechische Grammatik - Michael Neuhold Homepage

What's the reason for this difference? Is it an error of one of these sources?


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## Perseas

The imperative forms of most mediopassive verbs are not common at all.



διαφορετικός said:


> Is "αρκείστε" a valid imperative form (for passive "present" plural of "αρκώ")?


Yes, or "να αρκείστε". Also, for "αποτελούμαι" it is "να αποτελείστε", though I wouldn't use it in everyday speech.
Modern Greek Verbs - αρκώ, άρκεσα, αρκέστηκα - I suffice - αρκούμαι, am satisfied
Modern Greek Verbs - αποτελώ, αποτέλεσα - I am, make up, constitute, form, αποτελούμαι - consist of


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## Αγγελος

To be more precise, it is the _present _imperative forms of mediopassive verbs that are extremely rare. The aorist (=perfective) imperatives are quite common: αρκέσου/αρκεστείτε, just like κρατήσου/κρατηθείτε or κουνήσου/κουνηθείτε. In fact, even deponent verbs (=those, such as έρχομαι, which have no active forms) have them: σκέπτομαι > σκέψου/σκεφτείτε, δέχομαι > δέξου/δεχτείτε, θυμούμαι > θυμήσου/θυμηθείτε etc.
The verb αποτελούμαι has no imperative mainly because of its meaning (you can't order someone or something to consist!); but if one were needed, any native speaker would readily produce αποτελέσου/αποτελεστείτε.


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## Perseas

Αγγελος said:


> To be more precise, it is the _present _imperative forms of mediopassive verbs that are extremely rare.


Correct. That was meant to be my point.



Αγγελος said:


> αποτελέσου/αποτελεστείτε.


Which is aorist of course.


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## διαφορετικός

Thank you, Perseas and Αγγελος.



Perseas said:


> Yes, or "να αρκείστε".


In these cases ((medio-)passive, present, plural, 2nd person), the subjunctive form is identical to the imperative form (if it exists at all), which makes the discussion more difficult. It is clear to me that one can say "να αρκείστε" as a substitute for the imperative, but is it correct without the "να"?



Αγγελος said:


> αποτελούμαι has no imperative mainly because of its meaning (you can't order someone or something to consist!)


I agree. I mentioned that verb because it serves as the example for a group of verbs in Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής
They even provide the passive imperative aorist of that verb there.


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## Perseas

"Aρκείστε σε αυτά που έχετε" (= Be content with what you have) sounds strange to me, but "Να αρκείστε σε αυτά που έχετε" not. However "αρκείστε" is correct.


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## διαφορετικός

Thanks for your reply, Perseas.


Perseas said:


> "Aρκείστε σε αυτά που έχετε" [...] sounds strange to me


Does the following sound to you equally strange?
"Συγκεντρώνεστε σε αυτά που έχετε"
I am asking this because for this group of verbs - in contrast to the previous one -, the relevant form is given here, albeit in brackets (for the example "κλειδώνω"):
Ρ1


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## Perseas

διαφορετικός said:


> Does the following sound to you equally strange?
> "Συγκεντρώνεστε ..."


No, it doesn't. "Συγκεντρώνεστε όλοι σ' αυτόν τον χώρο" seems natural to me.


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## διαφορετικός

Thanks again.

If I dare to generalize this example, it seems that all the mentioned sources of conjugation tables have a reason for their (different) contents: One of them contains only the natural things (which are correct, too - e.g. "συγκεντρώνεστε"), the other ones contain all the correct things (which can be strange, unnatural - e.g. "αρκείστε").


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