# le kawa



## zinc

Is kawa a familiar term for coffee? If so, is it OK to use this term at the local bar when ordering? Or would it sound a little familiar to a waiter? Thank you. 

BTW: I checked here http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=317580060; but didn't get much beyond the formal definition.


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## Sev

zinc said:
			
		

> Is kawa a familiar term for coffee? If so, is it OK to use this term at the local bar when ordering? Or would it sound a little familiar to a waiter? Thank you.
> QUOTE]
> 
> It's a familiar term, as you said, and I wouldn't say that to a waiter.Keep "café " for that use.  But you can use it with friends : "On s'fait un kawa à la pause ?"


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## Nico5992

"Kawa" is one of the hundreds of French words that come from Arabic.


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## zinc

Nico5992 said:
			
		

> "Kawa" is one of the hundreds of French words that come from Arabic.


 Are you sure Nico? The dictionary reference suggests it comes from the mouth-numbing Fijian drink, Kava.


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## Sev

Another possible origin : Kawa is a drink prepared with the roots of a pepper plant in Polynesie.

See here:
http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=1838342175;


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## Jabote

Sev said:
			
		

> Another possible origin : Kawa is a drink prepared with the roots of a pepper plant in Polynesie.
> 
> See here:
> http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=1838342175;


 
Confirming Sev's statement that kawa is a drinK prepared with the roots of a pepper plant in Polynesia.

HOWEVER ALSO confirming Nico's statement that "caoua" (also spelled kawa) comes from the Arabic word "qahwa" which means coffee.

Which means that the French familiar word for coffee should be and remain spelled caoua...


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## Sev

Jabote said:
			
		

> Confirming Sev's statement that kawa is a drinK prepared with the roots of a pepper plant in Polynesia.
> 
> HOWEVER ALSO confirming Nico's statement that "caoua" (also spelled kawa) comes from the Arabic word "qahwa" which means coffee.
> 
> Which means that the French familiar word for coffee should be and remain spelled caoua...


 
It seems to me that kawa is more likely to be used. Even if it SHOULD not be.


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## Jabote

Sev said:
			
		

> It seems to me that kawa is more likely to be used. Even if it SHOULD not be.


 
I'm not saying that it MUST not be spelled kawa, I'm just saying that in my opinion it SHOULD be spelled caoua.... to avoid confusion.... see my meaning, medear ??? À force d'accepter des néologismes à la fois dans les termes et dans l'orthographe, on crée des confusions... ça apporte de l'eau à mon moulin dans le thread de l'autre jour... he he he !!! Enfin bon on ne va pas remettre le couvert là-dessus...


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## Nico5992

zinc said:
			
		

> Are you sure Nico? The dictionary reference suggests it comes from the mouth-numbing Fijian drink, Kava.


I dont actually know whether the French slang word comes from Arabic or Polynesian, but I do know that the Arabic for coffee is *َ*قَهْوَة (qahwa)

Edit: je n'avais pas vu ton post, Jabote  sorry for this re-post


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## Sev

Jabote said:
			
		

> I'm not saying that it MUST not be spelled kawa, I'm just saying that in my opinion it SHOULD be spelled caoua.... to avoid confusion.... see my meaning, medear ??? À force d'accepter des néologismes à la fois dans les termes et dans l'orthographe, on crée des confusions... ça apporte de l'eau à mon moulin dans le thread de l'autre jour... he he he !!! Enfin bon on ne va pas remettre le couvert là-dessus...


 
I was simply adding that for english native to know that it's more written "kawa" than "caoua" (at least in "metropole" !).

No confusion at all with your opinion. Maybe you should start a thread with "Jusqu'où doit-on accepter les néologismes? Ne mettent-ils pas en péril notre belle langue? "  Could be very interesting thread....et sujet, je n'en doute pas, à de nombreuses controverses...


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## Jabote

Sev said:
			
		

> Maybe you should start a thread with "Jusqu'où doit-on accepter les néologismes? Ne mettent-ils pas en péril notre belle langue? "  Could be very interesting thread....et sujet, je n'en doute pas, à de nombreuses controverses...


 
And this is exactly why I will NOT start such a thread.... ça risquerait de finir en pugilat virtuel...


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## zinc

Merci à tous. As usual, it has been an education.


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## fetchezlavache

Jabote said:
			
		

> And this is exactly why I will NOT start such a thread.... ça risquerait de finir en pugilat virtuel...


chicken !!!!!!!!


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## Sev

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> chicken !!!!!!!!


Qu'est-ce que tu veux dire par là? Quelque chose du genre "poule mouillée" ?


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## fetchezlavache

exactement !


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## Sev

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> exactement !


Merci j'ai appris quelque chose !


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## dreamer

wow i didin't know we had another word for café, i'm learning so much hehe keep it coming guys!


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## Jabote

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> chicken !!!!!!!!


 
On this one, YEP !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I saw the thread the subject of which I have totally forgotten, but there was a Jean involved in there.... oh boy ! I refrained from barging in, but it was not for lack of feeling like....


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## Cath.S.

About the spelling, I've always spelled it caoua because as a kid I read a lot of books by the regretted Frederic Dard, a master as far as French slang is concerned.


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## Jabote

egueule said:
			
		

> About the spelling, I've always spelled it caoua because as a kid I read a lot of books by the regretted Frederic Dard, a master as far as French slang is concerned.


 
I do agree that Frédéric Dard was a master at slang. However most of the slang he used was not "official" but a slang of his own that he was inventing


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## RODGER

To reply to Zincs original query, if the waiter were of algerian origin, and you were in France, and he felt particularly sensitive about his origins that day, or about the way his fellow countrymen used to be called "bougnoules" or "bourricots", or if he were a distant cousin of Ousama Ben Laden, then it would definitely NOT be a good idea to use it !!!!!


Rodger


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## zinc

Thanks for the advice Rodger. I don't really know what you are talking about, but I am guessing it just underscores what others in this thread have told me, ie. that whatever its orgins, "kawa" is too familiar a term to use at a cafe.


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## Jabote

RODGER said:
			
		

> To reply to Zincs original query, if the waiter were of algerian origin, and you were in France, and he felt particularly sensitive about his origins that day, or about the way his fellow countrymen used to be called "bougnoules" or "bourricots", or if he were a distant cousin of Ousama Ben Laden, then it would definitely NOT be a good idea to use it !!!!!
> 
> 
> Rodger


 
????????? Doubt very very much that any Arabic person would be pissed if someone asked for a "kawa", or even a caoua for that matter, in front of him in a cafe in France....


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## RODGER

Ok let's try and get it all out. The Algerian people suffered much verbal abuse, hardship and bloodshed at the hands of the french during their struggle for independance from 1953 to 1962, including torture. These wounds have not completely healed. Recent events in the Middle East have exacerbated the situation somewhat.To ask an Algerian waiter for "un kawa s'il vous plaît" could very well be interpreted by him that you thought that he had just got off the boat from Algiers, was practically illiterate in french and was in need of the help of your superior knowledge. Whereas he could well have been born in France and have been through high school.In other words, you could be seen as patronising, imperialistic, taunting, scornful, insulting..........need I go on ? See what I mean Jabote ?

Rodger


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## fetchezlavache

i disagree with you rodger. i fully agree with jabote. 

some people of arabic origins have a tendancy to feel offended easily, my neighbour treated me of racist a few months ago because i almost bumped into him when he was driving in a 'sens interdit' and i had the nerve to be mad at him, so i know what i'm talking about.

there is _no way_ a waiter of algerian origin would be offended if you asked him for a caoua. same as our arab friends are not offended when we say 'a chouïa' or 'mazout' or 'fissa' etc....


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## Jabote

Having lived with an Algerian during 8 years about 15 to 20 years ago, I also vaguely know what I am talking about... I have known his friends and been around quite a bit in their community and I have never ever seen any of them pissed because someone French had used caoua, or as Fetchez said fissa, chouïa, mektoub or any other Arabic word in front of them... When someone did, they merely smiled and asked the person "so you speak Arabic ?"... They, TOO, have a sense of humour...

Now this having been said, I agree that "caoua" is a word that people use among friends "let's go have a caoua", but not when you order a coffee. You don't say "I'll have a caoua" any more than you say "Je vais prendre du picrate" when you want wine...


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## RODGER

Jabote and Fetchezlavache,
I was pointing out the fact that the use of language is linked to a sensitivity to the society in which we live. You both know of the tensions which exist in French society between Algerians and the metropolitain French population and of the reasons for these. Don't forget that Jean-Marie Le Pen is a pure product of the Algerian war. Fetchezlavache even gives an example of an incident involving an accusation of racism. I wonder if he has ever lived in a ghetto ? If his reference to "our arab friends" can be interpreted in the same way in which some french people refer patronisingly to "nos amis belges", then my worst fears are confirmed. As for Jabote, I find it highly revealing how she equates the word "caoua" with "picrate", the equivalent of "gnats piss" in English.
These considerations aside, both of you miss the point of the particularity of the situation which I was talking about. It is one thing to go into a café with Algerian friends, in an immigrant quarter of Paris and ask the waiter for
 "un caoua". It is quite another to sit at the terrasse of a smart brasserie opposite the Opéra and ask an Algerian waiter for the same thing. Tread softly, for you tread on an awful lot of memories.

Rodger


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## fetchezlavache

well you do tread your way rodger, and let me tread mine ok ? thanks so much.

i'm busy today, my _front national_ membership expires soon, i have to go to headquarters to see that it is renewed in due time.


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## RODGER

Ainsi vous refusez le débat de fond sur l'emploi de la langue dans son contexte social et plein de questions intéressantes. Dommage !

Rodger


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## fetchezlavache

this forum is not the place for such a debate. besides, i saw no _'interesting question' _ nor enlightenment about _'social context' _ in your previous posts about the use of kawa in the presence of an immigrant from maghreb. i'll refrain from qualifying what i read in your posts. if i can't use 'our arab friends' to qualify my friends of algerian origin, i wonder which politically correct term i should have used.

now if you'll excuse me, i have no more time to waste being patronised and dictated how i should react and what i should think. you think you know best, and you're the kind of person always thinks that way. that cuts short any idea of a possible debate. cheers.


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## RODGER

Well we shall have to agree to differ about the impact of social context on the words we use. If you say that this forum is not the place for a debate about the consequences of what we say in a foreign language which we do not totally understand, then I shall have to believe you, you've been a member for much longer than I have. 

Rodger


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## Jabote

RODGER said:
			
		

> Ainsi vous refusez le débat de fond sur l'emploi de la langue dans son contexte social et plein de questions intéressantes. Dommage !
> 
> Rodger


 
Non je refuse simplement de perdre du temps à discuter avec quelqu'un qui n'a apparemment pas grande expérience PRATIQUE du milieu maghrébin immigré, mais en revanche certainement une très large connaissance purement théorique et récupérée de la chose... en ce qui me concerne, les amalgames à l'emporte-pièce ne sont pas ma tasse de thé. Souvenons-nous seulement que vouloir à toute force surprotéger (dans le contexte du "politiquement correct" s'entend) quelque ethnie ou nationalité que ce soit, c'est déjà du racisme et de la xénophobie: c'est refuser de lui reconnaître un esprit ouvert.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Fin du débat en ce qui me concerne et bonjour chez toi Rodger.


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## Cath.S.

> Originally Posted by RODGER
> Ainsi vous refusez le débat de fond sur l'emploi de la langue dans son contexte social et plein de questions intéressantes. Dommage !
> 
> Rodger


Rodger, I suggest you start a thread in the "cultural issues " forum if you want to discuss that type of subject.


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## OlivierG

Nobody refuses any debate here. Simply, the example you took for this is not appropriate. I already used the word kawa/caoua with some of my friends of Algerian origin, and none of them has felt offended at all. And if I invite some friend, will I have to ask for their origin before speaking of "mechoui" and "barbecue" ?


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## Jabote

OlivierG said:
			
		

> Nobody refuses any debate here. Simply, the example you took for this is not appropriate. I already used the word kawa/caoua with some of my friends of Algerian origin, and none of them has felt offended at all. And if I invite some friend, will I have to ask for their origin before speaking of "mechoui" and "barbecue" ?


 
HA HA HA !!! It is also going to be hard just to count, knowing that our figures are of Arab origin...


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## Cath.S.

> barbecue


is of anglo-american origin.


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## OlivierG

Right. I have to be careful none of the guest is American.


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## Podd

egueule said:
			
		

> Barbecue is of anglo-american origin.


 
Un peu d'histoire américaine ne nuira pas dans cette discussion…..qui est très intéressante et instructive sur des mots que je n'ai jamais entendue auparavant et je l'accept très bien...

Mais l’origine du mot _barbecue_ serait selon certains historiens; lorsque les habitants de la Nouvelle-France rôtissais un porc sur brasier ils disaient qu’il était bon de la barbe à la queue. Les Anglo-saxons ayant de la difficulté à prononcer correctement ces mots et avec les années le mot est devenu BBQ.


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## Cath.S.

Podd said:
			
		

> Un peu d'histoire américaine ne nuira pas dans cette discussion…..qui est très intéressante et instructive sur des mots que je n'ai jamais entendue auparavant et je l'accept très bien...
> 
> Mais l’origine du mot _barbecue_ serait selon certains historiens est ; lorsque les habitants de la Nouvelle-France rôtissais un porc sur brasier ils disaient qu’il c’était bon de la barbe à la queue. Les Anglo-saxons ayant de la difficulté à prononcer correctement ces mots et avec les années le mot est devenu BBQ.


Hmmm, I see! so its origin is French -> English and back to French again, I know this is the case of a few other etymologies but of course I can't think of any right now. (ô vieillesse ennemie!)


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## zinc

Podd said:
			
		

> Un peu d'histoire américaine ne nuira pas dans cette discussion…..qui est très intéressante et instructive sur des mots que je n'ai jamais entendue auparavant et je l'accept très bien...
> 
> Mais l’origine du mot _barbecue_ serait selon certains historiens; lorsque les habitants de la Nouvelle-France rôtissais un porc sur brasier ils disaient qu’il était bon de la barbe à la queue. Les Anglo-saxons ayant de la difficulté à prononcer correctement ces mots et avec les années le mot est devenu BBQ.


 I had heard the same story.


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## OlivierG

Je l'ai entendu aussi, mais ce n'était pas à propos d'un cochon (qui n'a pas de barbe) mais d'une chèvre, et ce n'était pas la queue, mais le c... enfin jusqu'à l'autre bout, quoi


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## RODGER

Thank you egeule for your sage one-liner. I stand corrected and humbled and shall remember in future that language is not a cultural matter !

Rodger


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## Jabote

egueule said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I see! so its origin is French -> English and back to French again, I know this is the case of a few other etymologies but of course I can't think of any right now. (ô vieillesse ennemie!)


 
conter fleurette = flirt = flirter
redingote = riding coat


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