# EN: customs - singular / plural



## bassenherbe

Hi!

I'm currently working on a translation about (the?) french Customs and I'd like to know if "Customs" is plural or not. Do I use "it" or "them" and "is" or "are"?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Maître Capello

Si c'est bien de l'office des douanes que tu parles, le nom est au pluriel mais il s'utilise comme un singulier :

_French custom*s* is…__ It inspects…_


----------



## geostan

While it is true that the term is usually singular in construction, I cannot imagine an example like the one above.

_When I went through customs, they checked my luggage. _ It's almost like "on" in French.* It* would sound completely wrong in such a sentence.


----------



## Maître Capello

Well, I think it's similar to what we discussed in this thread… Depending on whether you have the people or the institution in mind you would use _they_ or _it_, wouldn't you?


----------



## geostan

I would never use "it" in the example I gave. It would sound like a machine carrying out the search. I read the thread you mentioned, and for what they discussed, I would not disagree. The word _customs_, however, seems to be peculiar in that "it" doesn't seem to work. I would have to work through a number of examples to figure out why. Perhaps someone else has an idea.


----------



## Tim~!

I think that this is one of those things that you can only ever be certain about if you're a native English-speaker.

We (in England, at least) would always use "they" for the police, never "it": "The police say that they will continue to work on Christmas Day."  (Unless you refer to them as "the police force".)

On the other hand, we would refer to the army as "it": "The Army announced that it plans to launch its attack against Saddam's forces in the near future."

Customs is just like police; we naturally say "they" when speaking about them: "Have you seen how busy customs are today?  They don't have enough people working,"


----------



## Maître Capello

Tim~! said:


> Customs is just like police; we naturally say "they" when speaking about them: "Have you seen how busy customs are today?  They don't have enough people working,"
> 
> (emphasis mine)



Okay for _they_ vs. _it_, but now you conjugate the verb in the plural whereas I thought the construction was supposed to be singular… 

So when would you use a singular construction?


----------



## geostan

An example might be:

Customs is working on a solution to the problem of too much traffic.


----------



## Maître Capello

OK, but would the plural be incorrect?

_Customs *are* working on a solution to the problem of too much traffic._


----------



## geostan

I think you could say either. When I gave this example to my sister, she came up with ARE. But my first choice would be IS. It depends, I suppose, on how your mind views the institution.

To return to another poster's example, THE POLICE. You have no choice:
The police are working on... This makes me think that Customs (institution) is singular, whereas Customs (a group of people) is plural, which is why my earlier example requires THEY rather than IT.


----------



## Keith Bradford

I would say in *all* these cases (police, army, customs, government, committee, family, gang, etc etc...) the same rule applies:

If you are considering them as individual members or officers, you take them as a plural; if you consider them as a united force you use the singular.

After that, judgement over where to draw the line is a matter of taste.

So if Tim chooses to use singular for the army, he sees it as a more disciplined force than, say, the cabinet.  And he's right!


----------



## Machiavelo

Customs is considered an entity, here in Canada anyways.  I have often seen documents which referred to the Department of Customs and Excise in the first person when saying, for instance, "Customs is looking for a solution to the problem."  The plural would only be used when saying "Customs agents are hard at work seeking a solution to the problem."

PS.  I worked with Customs and Excise for many years.


----------



## Maître Capello

Machiavelo said:


> Customs is considered an entity, here in Canada anyways.


 But when talking about Customs you still would use the pronoun _they_, not _it_, wouldn't you?


----------



## geostan

Maître Capello said:


> But when talking about Customs you still would use the pronoun _they_, not _it_, wouldn't you?



Absolutely! As I implied in my earlier example, the pronoun _they_ refers to the individuals working at Customs.

When I went through Customs (entity), they (one or more of the officers working there) checked my luggage.


----------



## Machiavelo

Maître Capello said:


> But when talking about Customs you still would use the pronoun _they_, not _it_, wouldn't you?


 
No, we would only use "they" when referrring to spokespersons or agents of Customs.  However, as Geostan has stated, if you taling about going through Customs, then you would say that "they" (referring to the agents) checked your lugguage.


----------

