# カオス



## GamblingCamel

Hello all,

I have seen _カオス_ spelled in Western characters as _Kaosu_.  How would this word be pronounced? 
I don't know IPA, so please explain any symbols that might seem unusual to an EN speaker. 

Thanks


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## divisortheory

s*ka*
g*o*
*su*shi


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## GamblingCamel

Thank you very much, DivisorTheory.


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## Flaminius

For the second syllable <o>, suggesting go ([gəʊ]) is inappropriate because the Japanese syllable is not a diphthong.  It is simply [o].


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## Aoyama

Then, I'm not so sure that *カオス* is really pronounced with such a stress on the last *ス *(*su*, as in sushi) . It is like the ending *-desu *, which in standard Japanese (excluding regional accents) is pronounced closer to French -*desse *(or English m*ess*,str*ess*, dr*ess *...).


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## divisortheory

Not saying i dont agree with both previously mentioned points, but since the original poster doesnt seem to know anything about japanese it seemed appropriate to give a less-than-perfect pronunciation that was about 95% correct but easy to explain in terms of existing english syllables.


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## Flaminius

What I said in #4 _supra_, *divisor*, would add some 3% more accuracy to your suggestion.  The Japanese O is, to my very subjective ears, close to the one in "hot" but shorter and more closed.

Other 2% for accuracy includes pitch accent, devoicing of the final U, A and O being very close but not a diphthong and some such topics of extreme casuistry.


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## divisortheory

Flaminius said:


> What I said in #4 _supra_, *divisor*, would add some 3% more accuracy to your suggestion.  The Japanese O is, to my very subjective ears, close to the one in "hot" but shorter and more closed.
> 
> Other 2% for accuracy includes pitch accent, devoicing of the final U, A and O being very close but not a diphthong and some such topics of extreme casuistry.



Your original post actually piqued my curiosity though, because TBH I can't even hear a difference between the o in *go* vs just the alphabet letter *o*, and you suggested that there is one.  I don't have a background in linguistics, but is there any other examples that makes the distinction more audible?


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## fitter.happier

divisortheory said:


> Your original post actually piqued my curiosity though, because TBH I can't even hear a difference between the o in *go* vs just the alphabet letter *o*, and you suggested that there is one.  I don't have a background in linguistics, but is there any other examples that makes the distinction more audible?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but _go_ is usually pronounced as /goʊ/ in American English (ʊ roughly representing the _oo_ sound in _hook_). 

In Japanese, there's no /ʊ/ sound in _go_ (click to hear). The Japanese _o_ is quite different from the English one to my ears.


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## 涼宮

I think the O お in Japanaese could be explained easier in English by one of these:

*O*h my God!
*O*bject
L*o*rd
*O*n
M*o*re

They are not exactly the same sound as an open-O in Japanaese but they are closer than GO, I think.


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## fitter.happier

I think the above suggestions are somewhat misleading, 涼宮. 

The _o_ in _object_ and _on _ is /ɒ/ in IPA, very different from the Japanese _o_. _Oh_ is pretty much like _go_, since it's pronounced /oʊ/ (or /əʊ/ if you speak British English). 

Perhaps the _o_ in _more _and _lord _is closer to the Japanese お, but then again, listening to the original Japanese pronunciation of the sound will make things more clear.  This article is also very interesting and describes the Japanese _o_ as a mid back rounded vowel.


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## divisortheory

This discussion is making me question even my most basic understandings of japanese AND english, strangely enough.  That being said, object is definitely extremely different.  Even 'more' and 'lord' sound wildly different to what ive learned japanese 'o' to sound like.  The only difference i can even slightly detect between 'go' and 'o' is that the o sounds a bit longer and more drawn out (non-scientific terminology ), whereas the 'o' kind of "stops" in the japanese sound


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## Ghabi

divisortheory said:


> The only difference i can even slightly detect between 'go' and 'o' is that the o sounds a bit longer and more drawn out (non-scientific terminology ), whereas the 'o' kind of "stops" in the japanese sound


Hi. I think what Flam says in Post#4 isn't that the vowel in _go_ and the _o_ in the English alphabet aren't the same sound. The "o" he refers to is the [o] in IPA, not the _o_ in the English alphabet.


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## Aoyama

In fact (but that is a bit off-topic already), speaking about "o" in "go/語" in Japanese is not a good example (for the pronounciation of "o") because "g" is nasalized (but not always) and thus affects the following "o" (in fact the whole thing is pronounced close to "ngo", so the "o" is an "open o", close to the one found in "pot", not as in "go"). But the "o" in *カオス *is a "normal" o.


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## Ghabi

Aoyama said:


> In fact (but that is a bit off-topic already), speaking about "o" in "go/語" in Japanese is not a good example (for the pronounciation of "o") ...


I think we've been talking about the verb _go_ in English, no?


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## Aoyama

Nope,chigaimasu, we're (I am) talking about what becomes of "o" in Japanese in a word like "go/語" in nihongo ...


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