# Norwegian: not burried



## eva nicolae

A character complains that he and his brother haven't yet interred their father who's been dead for ten years.

_Han står på et lager et sted her?
– Riktig. Åh, at vi ikke fikk til det der. He he he.
– Det er av sine egne man skal ha det. He he he!
– Ha ha ha! Men alvor, jeg skal ta fatt i det der snart, få ham i jorden._

I am not sure how to understand the underlined sentences. The translations are very dissimilar. Also, what exactly does "he he he!" mean? Is it some kind of laughter? It's not "ha ha ha!" though.

Thank you in advance.


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## raumar

1) _Åh, at vi ikke fikk til det der. _This sentence is a bit incomplete, as spoken language often is. A literal translation would be someting like "Oh, that we didn't make it", but the meaning is probably something like "Oh, it's too bad that we didn't make it" (accomplish it).

2) _He he he_ is laughter, but less heartily than _ha ha ha_. It is more like "heh heh" - more of a chuckle, maybe sarcastic. In this case, it seems to indicate that they don't really mean it, when they say that it's too bad that they haven't buried their father. They are not really sorry about it. 

3) _Det er av sine egne man skal ha det. _This is a Norwegian saying. It means something like "you get the worst criticism/treatment from your own people". In this context, I suppose it means that they have treated their (dead) father much worse than they would have treated a complete stranger.


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## eva nicolae

Great, raumar, thanks a lot!


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## Bokfinken

Interesting, I read the dialogue a little differently. I haven't read the original work so I have no context, but to me the characters seem rather embarrassed about the situation. Here's how I interpret it:

1) _Åh, at vi ikke fikk til det der._ "Gosh, I can't believe we didn't manage that (to bury the father)"

2) _He he he_ is indeed some sort of laughter, but again I read it rather as embarrassed, not sarcastic.

3) _Det er av sine egne man skal ha det. _What raumar said. I've searched a bit but haven't been able to find an equivalent saying in English, I'd be interested to know how your English sources translated it.


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## raumar

That is a good point, Bokfinken. Embarrassment may certainly be the right word to describe this situation. And if it is some kind of sarcasm, it must be directed against themselves - a kind of self-depreciating humour.

But the mood in this dialogue is light and humourous, so I still don't think that they are especially sorry about it. Or, maybe it is better to put it this way: They are embarrassed, but not sad. They may laugh at their own failure to arrange a funeral, but they don't seem to have missed a grave to visit, during these ten years.

This interpretation may be coloured by the context - I assume that it still is Knausgård. I have not read his books, but I know that his bad relationship with his father is a central topic.


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## bicontinental

I realize that comparisons with Danish don't work in each and every case, but I thought the meaning of the sentence was closer to: _Oh well, we (just) never got around to it_ (as in 'we never really found time for it'...hehehe) rather than _we didn’t make it_? ( i.e. we weren’t successful, we didn’t accomplish this task).

Bic.


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## raumar

Bic, I think your interpretation would have been much more likely if the sentence just had been "_Åh, vi fikk ikke til det der". _The little word "_at_" ("that") makes a difference: it implies a stronger element of self-reproach. The way I read this sentence, "a_t_" stands for something like "it's too bad that" (my version) or "I can't believe that" (Bokfinken's version).

In any case, this discussion shows why the translators struggled with these sentences. "_Det er av sine egne man skal ha det"_ may also be a challenge, if you aren't familiar with the saying. A literal translation, word by word, will not make sense. I agree with Bokfinken: it would be interesting to see what the translators made of it. Bic, do you know if there is a similar expression in English?


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## bicontinental

^^^Thanks for the explanation, raumar.

As for the expression, "_Det er av sine egne man skal ha det", _I’m not even sure an equivalent idiom exists in English (or in Danish for that matter). I was wondering if it might have Biblical roots, i.e. ‘God disciplines those He loves, as a father the son he delights in’… although I wouldn’t suggest using this translation in English. [‘_Den man tugter elsker man’_ is a Danish idiom with more obvious connections to the Bible, _tugter_ is a dated synonym for ‘punish’.]

There’s the English saying: _With friends like that, who needs enemies?  _This is still not entirely the same as your Norwegian idiom. Then there are variations on the idea of _keeping your expectations low and you won’t get disappointed_, …still not exactly what your idiom expresses.

I’m afraid I’m at a loss here. In terms of how to approach this translation, I wonder if you could modify one of the idioms above; I’m thinking for instance, _With relatives/sons like that who needs enemies? _Or_ Keep your expectations low, [and you won’t get disappointed]… especially when it comes to your sons/relatives  (hehehe). _


Bic.


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## Dan2

raumar said:


> _Det er av sine egne man skal ha det. _This is a Norwegian saying. It means something like *"you get the worst criticism/treatment from your own people"*





raumar said:


> do you know if there is a similar expression in English?





bicontinental said:


> I was wondering if it might have Biblical roots


raumar's rendition is reminiscent of Jesus's famous "A prophet is not without honor but (=except) in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house".  Admittedly not exactly the same thing.


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## eva nicolae

Thank you everyone. The English translation of the proverb says: "Sometimes blood is thinner than water". What do you think of it? Pretty ingenious, right?


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## Bokfinken

It's awesome!


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## raumar

eva nicolae said:


> The English translation of the proverb says: "Sometimes blood is thinner than water". What do you think of it? Pretty ingenious, right?



Yes - that's really good!

Thanks for your suggestions, Bic and Dan2! 



Dan2 said:


> raumar's rendition is reminiscent of Jesus's famous "A prophet is not without honor but (=except) in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house".  Admittedly not exactly the same thing.



This is actually also a saying in Norwegian: "_Ingen blir profet i eget land_". I must admit that I thought that it was just an old proverb. As Dan2 explained, its origin is the Bible, but the phrase became a Norwegian idiom via Ibsen's _Peer Gynt:



			Jeg har læst på tryk - og satsen er sand -
"ingen blir profet i eget land"
		
Click to expand...

_


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