# A jewel beyond price



## Andrew___

Hello,

May I ask how we could say: *The Arabic language is a jewel beyond price*.

Could I say "العربية هي جوهر يفوق القدر"

Cheers.


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## cherine

Hi Andrew,

The expression "jewel beyond price" or "priceless jewel" in Arabic is: 
جوهرة لا تقدر بثمن
jawhara laa tuqaddar(u) bi-thaman.

In a sentence like yours, the pronoun هي is not necessary.


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## Andrew___

Many thanks Cherine for this nice phrase. 

Do you think people would understand what I am trying to say if I said:

*العربية جوهر يفوق القدر*

Thanks.


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## ayed

Andrew___ said:


> Do you think people would understand what I am trying to say if I said:
> 
> *العربية جوهرة تفوق قدرها*
> 
> Thanks.


Surely, they would


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## cherine

Sorry Ayed, but what would the pronoun in قدرها refer to? 
And, Andrew, we say تفوق الوصف = beyond description (we can't describe it), and تفوق الخيال = beyond imagination. But تفوق القدر doesn't make much sense to me.


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## elroy

I agree with Cherine.  لا تقدر بثمن is the best alternative.

You could perhaps say تفوق التقدير but I can't really think of a good reason to.


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## ayed

cherine said:


> Sorry Ayed, but what would the pronoun in قدرها refer to?
> And, Andrew, we say تفوق الوصف = beyond description (we can't describe it), and تفوق الخيال = beyond imagination. But تفوق القدر doesn't make much sense to me.


 It refers to the Arabic language


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## cherine

So, you mean that اللغة العربية جوهرة تفوق قدر نفسها ? 

Sorry Ayed, but this doesn't make much sense to me. This is why I think we should say القدر in the absolute.


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## Faylasoof

The expression < جوهرة لا تقدر بثمن > in this context is what I would use too, but I was wondering if the following could work as an alternative:

اللغة العربية جوهرة غالية إلي أبعد الحدود

A little awkward I think, but would it be acceptable?


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## cherine

Hello Faylasoof,

غالية إلى أبعد الحدود is not awkward, it's like: "extremely precious", it's just not as idiomatic as لا تقدَّر بثمن .

And one more thing: saying that something is "extremely precious" is not the same as "priceless"  So, the choice between the two will depend on the meaning we want to convey.


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## Faylasoof

Hi Cherine,

 Yes, I did consider the difference between the two. But good to know that the use of < غالية إلى أبعد الحدود> would not be considered awkward. Though less idiomatic one could still use it in a different situation. Not quite here.  Thanks!


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## cherine

You're welcome.

And you can use غالية إلى أبعد الحدود here and in any other similar context you like.


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## ayed

شيرين ، هل نسيت التشبيه في اللغة العربية؟
اللغة العربية لاتقدر بثمن مثل الجوهرة لاتقدر بثمن


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## Andrew___

ayed said:


> *العربية جوهرة تفوق قدرها*



This is great!  I've always wanted to use the noun قدر in this context rather than the verb قدّر.  Cheers


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## elroy

Andrew___ said:


> This is great!  I've always wanted to use the noun قدر in this context rather than the verb قدّر.  Cheers


 I don't know how "great" it is.   I agree with Cherine that Ayed's suggestion doesn't make sense, so if you want to use it know that many Arabs will find it strange.

The noun قدْر means "value, worth" so جوهرة تفوق قدرها means "a jewel that exceeds its value," which makes no sense.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> i don't know how "great" it is.  i agree with cherine that ayed's suggestion doesn't make sense, so if you want to use it know that many arabs will find it strange.
> 
> The noun قدْر means "value, worth" so جوهرة تفوق قدرها means "a jewel that exceeds its value," which makes no sense.


 

*القدر : يدل على مبلغ الشيء وكنهه ونهايته.فالقدر:مبلغ كل شيء*


*يقال قدره كذا، أي مبلغه*


* *
* مختار الصحاح*
*مقاييس اللغة*​


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## elroy

وكيف يمكن للشيء أن يفوق قدره؟​


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## Andrew___

elroy said:


> وكيف يمكن للشيء أن يفوق قدره؟​



Perhaps a thing can exceed its value/worth, if it is something very valuable but it is not considered by many people in society to be valuable.  Kind of like a hidden jewel?

Like Taha Husein's comment when he said that knowledge is like air and water, but most people couldn't give a damn about it and get most of their information from the streets and mass media.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> وكيف يمكن للشيء أن يفوق قدره؟​



:
*unvaluable إذا قلنا إن هذه الجوهرة تفوق قدرها=تفوق ثمنها=لاتقدر بثمن=غالية جداً..هذا مجاز ياإلياس حتى أنها تترجم إلى الإنجليزي *
*وليس معناها أنها رخيصة بل تفوق قيمتها يعني أن قدر هذه الجوهرة أو ثمنها ليس في المال المدفوع من أجلها بل هي بذاتها أغلى من ثمنها أو قدرها *​*كم تقدر هذه السلعة؟*
*أقدرها بخمسة آلاف*


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## elroy

لم أسمع أو أقرأ ذلك من قبل ولا يزال يبدو لي تعبيرًا غريبًا.  عندما أتكلم عن "قدر" شيء فلا أقصد بذلك الثمن الذي يُظن بأنه هو المناسب بل القدر الحقيقيي للشيء، ولذلك فلا أرى من المنطقي أن نقول أن الشيء يفوق قدره أو أنه يفوق ثمنه.  أما تعبير "لا يقدر بثمن" فهو من ناحية واحدة منطقي ومن ناحية ثانية منتشر جدًا.  بالإضافة إلى ذلك فنحن نتفق جميعًا على أنه مقبول (بينما لا نتفق بالنسبة للتعبير الآخر) ولذلك فأكرر نصيحتي لأندرو وهي أن يستخدم "لا يقدر بثمن".  لا أفهم رغبته في استخدام كلمة "قدْر" مهما كان الثمن. ​


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