# stereotypes



## Magg

Hello,

I'd like you to comment on those typical stereotypes that label a country, its citizens and culture, which sometimes match the reality and sometimes not.

As far as I'm concerned, do feel free to give any opinion. I promise I won't get angry. 

To start with, I know it is thought Spaniards not to be punctual, or that we always have a nap. Well, I won't explain the truth of it now because I'd like to read your comments, and I hope some Spaniard will help me in the task.

Now, this is not a stereotype but let me ask you something: why British girls (at least the ones I've seen) in their twenties or so dress up in dresses with a low neckline in broad winter. It was the north of England, and it was really cold; say, freezing.


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## rhikate

hey! i'm a british girl and the reason generally british girls do this is because if you take a coat it looks odd and u get no male attention! and also a coat looks horrible when ure all dressed up ready to go out! Another reason is because usually, ure not outside for long and its so hot in pubs and clubs in England you simply don't need a jacket because unlike in France theres no where outside to sit usually!!  Hope this helps


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## Sharon

Yes, I think the expression is "slaves to fashion."  Why did women many years ago starve themselves, and lace themselves tightly into corsets trying to achieve the "perfect" 18 inch waist? They actually had "swooning couches," because the (self-induced) lack of nutrition, and lack of air caused them to be faint all the time.  
I look around the campus where I go to school, and young girls, (even in the middle of winter) wear incredibly high-heeled shoes, knowing that they are going to be walking long distances (on snow and ice) from class to class.
(As far as the stereotypes, I'm afraid no one is going to even nibble at that one!  )
Sharon.


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## valerie

Hey Magg,

The first time I went to Madrid, it was Christmas time and freezing, and I could not believe my eyes of how short were the skirts the girls were wearing in the street... So probably (some) British girls do not have the exclusivity of being "fashion slaves"

Pease correct my english, this phrase sounds really odd to me


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## cuchuflete

I am sufficiently foolish [daring would be a kinder word, but not necessarily more accurate!] to deal with your challenge:





> To start with, I know it is thought Spaniards not to be punctual, or that we always have a nap. Well, I won't explain the truth of it now because I'd like to read your comments, and I hope some Spaniard will help me in the task.



From the perspective of one who spent two delicious months of his youth in Santander and thereabouts, Spaniards are reasonably punctual, and the siesta is something that was rare even then, except in isolated rural areas.

Now here's where I get myself into trouble.  Many Latin Americans are not punctual.
I have worked in --I'll avoid naming names to protect the guilty--most of the more populous Latin American nations, including many where Español is the native language, as well as one where an interesting form of Portugués is heard.  In none of these countries was punctuality valued at all.

I await the stoning or execution at daybreak.

Best regards,
C.


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## morgana

I would like foreign people to stop thinking that Italian men always pinch the girl's "back parts". It's not true and if somebody does it, he deserves a punch in the face!

Cheers


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## dave

I suppose most of you know this old 'joke':

Heaven and Hell

*Heaven is where* 
the police are English 
the cooks are French 
the engineers are German 
the lovers are Italian 
and everything is organized by the Swiss. 

*Hell is where * 
the police are German 
the cooks are English 
the engineers are French 
the lovers are Swiss 
and everything is organized by the Italians.


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## Magg

valerie said:
			
		

> Hey Magg,
> 
> The first time I went to Madrid, it was Christmas time and freezing, and I could not believe my eyes of how short were the skirts the girls were wearing in the street... So probably (some) British girls do not have the exclusivity of being "fashion slaves"
> 
> Pease correct my english, this phrase sounds really odd to me


Certainly there must be slaves to fashion everywhere, and obvioulsy it is easier to find them in a bid city such as Madrid or Barcelona. Sincerely, I think they are 'unas descerebradas' (please, no one get offended), I mean they can get a cold and keep it the whole winter for just trying to look like top models to the boys. Where I live, people generally put on warm clothes in winter, and take it off in summer. Someone can dress up a bit more trendy on a Saturday night (I've done it), but including a coat.
What it's true, is that people in Christmas dress in an unusual way, especially if they are going to a party. I think it happens all the same everywhere by that time of the year.

Rhikate,
Please, don't take my comments wrongly. It's just that the fact surprised me a lot. I wasn't used to seeing people dressed like that in broad winter.

Sharon, 
That high-heeled shoes stuff also got my attention. The campus I was living in was off the city (en el campo). So imagine the action of going to the nearest bus stop with the snow and do on. Jesus!


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## Magg

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> I am sufficiently foolish [daring would be a kinder word, but not necessarily more accurate!] to deal with your challenge:
> 
> From the perspective of one who spent two delicious months of his youth in Santander and thereabouts, Spaniards are reasonably punctual, and the siesta is something that was rare even then, except in isolated rural areas.
> 
> C.


Cuchefléte,

That was the right answer I was expecting a Spaniard to give, but I'm happy to find a native English speaker who does.

I've had the chance to talk to many university students from Europe and the States, and they told it was though we were unpunctual, lazy and always ready for 'fiesta'.
Maybe we like 'la fiesta' and we know how to enjoy life, but we do not neglect our duties.
About the nap idea, it is more usual in summer, and in the centre and south of Spain, where it is almost imposible to go out until the sun sets, and people who have a nap are the ones that are on holiday, some children and the aged. If someone has to work, no nap is possible!

By the way, did you have the chance to visit Asturias? It's wonderful.


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## Magg

morgana said:
			
		

> I would like foreign people to stop thinking that Italian men always pinch the girl's "back parts". It's not true and if somebody does it, he deserves a punch in the face!
> 
> Cheers


Morgana,

In Spain many people think you are very trendy, and especially Spanish women think of Italian men to be very passionate. Is that true?

OOHH! Almost forgot, I've never heard they pinched the girls' bottom.


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> Cuchefléte,
> 
> That was the right answer I was expecting a Spaniard to give, but I'm happy to find a native English speaker who does.
> 
> I've had the chance to talk to many university students from Europe and the States, and they told it was though we were unpunctual, lazy and always ready for 'fiesta'.
> Maybe we like 'la fiesta' and we know how to enjoy life, but we do not neglect our duties.
> About the nap idea, it is more usual in summer, and in the centre and south of Spain, where it is almost imposible to go out until the sun sets, and people who have a nap are the ones that are on holiday, some children and the aged. If someone has to work, no nap is possible!
> 
> By the way, did you have the chance to visit Asturias? It's wonderful.




Hola Magg.  Aunque considero La Montaña mi terruño adoptivo, Asturias es precioso.  I especially liked the little villages on the coast in the eastern part of the province.  I mean no disrespect to Oviedo, which is a lovely city, but the coastal villages are delightful.  Curious that now, some thirty years later, I have come to live in a coastal village.

In regards to the overall theme of your original question, I think that most of us are concerned about negative stereotypes that are applied indiscriminately to our people.  The image that the average Spaniard has of the 'average' American is probably not very nice.  Unfortunately there is usually some basis, however small, for these images.  If I were from your country, and observed the behavior and appearance of American tourists, I might well make some fairly negative assumptions.

Views of Spaniards in this country are often informed by decades of bad movies.  To compound the problem, many Americans cannot distinguish between Spanish speakers from various countries.  Hence,
we have a distorted and inaccurate image of some South Americans projected onto Spaniards.  The only answers are direct contact and education.  The former requires economic means and opportunity which are not available to all, and the latter requires an open mind, which is a rare commodity in all countries.

Saludos,
C


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## morgana

Magg said:
			
		

> Morgana,
> 
> In Spain many people think you are very trendy, and especially Spanish women think of Italian men to be very passionate. Is that true?
> 
> OOHH! Almost forgot, I've never heard they pinched the girls' bottom.




Well, when I was in England everybody used to ask me if I liked my bottom pinched, as Italians do it all the time!!!

As for fashion, there is a lot of fuss for the expensive brands here, so I guess it's true. 

I wouldn't say all Italians are passionate, I think it's only a stereotype... it actually depends on the man, and he can be Italian, English, Spanish, French...   


Cheers


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## mvsantander

HTML:
	

 I wasn't used to seeing people dressed like that in broad winter.

 Magg, your meaning is quite clear, but it is usual to say " In the depth(s) of winter", and conversely " In the height of summer"


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## Magg

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Views of Spaniards in this country are often informed by decades of bad movies.
> 
> C


The same goes for the general view Spaniards have on North Americans. Our main understanding of your culture comes from movies and musical bands. Nowadays people travel more often than before and are beginning to experience the culture on their own. 

From my own experience, I've only been to New York once, and I must admit I said more than one time _...como el las películas!_ 'cause I found pictures of the everyday life that I knew quite well thanks to the movies.

As for your views of Spaniards, it always makes me laugh how 'andaluces' are shown in Noth American movies. Their physical appearance is closest to the Mexicans. 

And that is another steretype that I think it's beginning to disappear, but a few years ago, many people thought everybody here in Spain danced 'flamenco' and 'sevillanas'. I don't know how to do it, for instance. And I'm completely against bull fightings.

Oops! It's almost time for lunch. So, 'nos vemos de más viejos'.


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## Magg

mvsantander said:
			
		

> HTML:
> 
> 
> I wasn't used to seeing people dressed like that in broad winter.
> 
> Magg, your meaning is quite clear, but it is usual to say " In the depth(s) of winter", and conversely " In the height of summer"



MvSantander,

Thanks for your comments. I didn't know how to say 'en pleno invierno', and the dictionary gave 'broad'. I do appreciate it.

Cheers


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## dave

Magg said:
			
		

> MvSantander,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. I didn't know how to say 'en pleno invierno', and the dictionary gave 'broad'. I do appreciate it.
> 
> Cheers



Magg, your guess was excellent, though obviously not quite right with this idiomatic phrase. We would principally use *broad *, with the meaning you intend, in the following expression:

*In broad daylight*

Broad is also used to mean general, or to a certain extent, in the following expressions:

In broad terms
In broad agreement


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> As for your views of Spaniards, it always makes me laugh how 'andaluces' are shown in Noth American movies. Their physical appearance is closest to the Mexicans.
> 
> And that is another steretype that I think it's beginning to disappear, but a few years ago, many people thought everybody here in Spain danced 'flamenco' and 'sevillanas'. I don't know how to do it, for instance. And I'm completely against bull fightings.



Magg, are you sure you are really a Spanish lady?  If you don't like bull fights, don't know how to dance flamenco ....

I console myself with the absolute certainty that you must have flashing dark eyes, a terrible temper, and deep passions!  If not, you clearly would not qualify for inclusion in the world of stereotypes.

Best regards,
Cuchufléte


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## Sharon

Well, since some have nibbled, and some have bit the hook, I'll add a comment.

My Spanish professor has told us that when Spaniards (maybe it was Europeans in general?) go on vacation, it is *to relax*. (That *is* what a vacation is for, after all.) But, *if* an American has the sufficient finances to go to Europe in the first place, they want to see everything, and make a list of all the places and things they want to see in a week. This rigid schedule is not really relaxed, and he told us that Spaniards (or Europeans?) say that Americans tend to treat Europe  "as if it were a theme park." (The mental image of a bunch of children running around, frantically trying to see everything amused me, so I remember that specific comment.)
But if I am only going once, and I only have a week, aren't I almost obligated to see everything?  
So many beautiful things, so much history!


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## LadyBlakeney

Sharon, I can tell you about the holydays customs of the Spaniards, but I think you can extend them to many Europeans.

When we go on holydays, we usually take one of these alternatives:

a ) We go on a relatively short trip to another country/region/city where we have never been before, and we stay there for 2-3 to 8-10 days (these limits are flexible, of course) trying to see as much of the place as possible, and usually staying in hotels or similar.

b ) We take 10 to 20 days of vacation (approximately) and we go to our summer house on the mountain (probably at our grandparents' village), or perhaps to our flat on the beach (people rarely have both), or we rent a house/flat on the mountain/beach. Those are the holidays meant for *relax*. You probably spend some time sightseeing and visiting the surroundings, but you also spend a lot ot time sunbathing, taking long walks, having the "aperitivo" or taking a nap. You may dinner out and go for a drink, and in general terms you do what you feel like.

I hope this explanation helps you.


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## Olivia

morgana said:
			
		

> I would like foreign people to stop thinking that Italian men always pinch the girl's "back parts". It's not true and if somebody does it, he deserves a punch in the face!
> 
> Cheers



Well, if you are a ragazza bionda on holiday, apparently, they do... but they also say compliments and carry your suitcase so they are forgiven...


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## Focalist

Sharon said:
			
		

> [If] an American has the sufficient finances to go to Europe in the first place, they want to see everything, and make a list of all the places and things they want to see in a week. This rigid schedule is not really relaxed, and he told us that Spaniards (or Europeans?) say that Americans tend to treat Europe  "as if it were a theme park." (The mental image of a bunch of children running around, frantically trying to see everything amused me, so I remember that specific comment.)


Reminds me of that comedy film about a group of Americans on a whirlwind tour of Europe: "If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium".  

F


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## Magg

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Magg, are you sure you are really a Spanish lady?  If you don't like bull fights, don't know how to dance flamenco ....
> 
> I console myself with the absolute certainty that you must have flashing dark eyes, a terrible temper, and deep passions!  If not, you clearly would not qualify for inclusion in the world of stereotypes.
> 
> Best regards,
> Cuchufléte



Sure I am!

Despite having guessed some of my physical traits and some of those concerning my nature, I'd like you to know that you're failing to describe me. I glimpse from your comments the kind of woman you have in mind, and I think she's the one everybody consider as the typical Spanish one. ANOTHER STEREOTYPE?   

Un abrazo,
Magg


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## jacinta

mvsantander said:
			
		

> HTML:
> 
> 
> I wasn't used to seeing people dressed like that in broad winter.
> 
> Magg, your meaning is quite clear, but it is usual to say " In the depth(s) of winter", and conversely " In the height of summer"




We also say "in the heart of winter" as "in the depths of winter".

I would like to know if la siesta is still the same as it was when I lived in Madrid many, many years ago.  I would teach classes until about 2:00 and then everyone went home, closed shop (some) until about 4:00 or 5:00.  Poor me who could not figure this out for a while, I could never make it to the bank before it closed for siesta or for good that day.  It was the same in Mexico.  Has la siesta changed at all?


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## belén

The lunch break in shops is still more or less from 14hrs to 17hrs (or 1630hrs)

I don't know if this necessarily y means people has time to take the siesta, in big cities they may have to comute and have barely time enough to have their lunches and go back to work.

In smaller cities I am sure there is people who has time to take the siesta (lucky them!)

Then, in big cities nowadays, in offices and big companies, the lunch break is only 1 hour, so it's becoming more "anglo" in a sense, people eat around their workplaces.
Unfortunately, it hasn't become "anglo" at closing time, workers still go home at 20hrs or even later...


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## Focalist

I have had two periods of paid employment in Spain: 

1. in an office, where we worked the _jornada intensiva_ (or _jornada continua_) from 8.00 till 14.30 six days a week; and
2. in teaching, where we had the traditional siesta-interrupted day (9.00-13.00 and 16.00-19.00, if memory serves, five days a week).

I have to say that I much preferred the first pattern (even though it was annoying when there were local half-holidays beginning at 12.00: we only got two-and-a-half hours off on those days!). With the second pattern, though, I hated "having to go to work twice" in one day, and that 3-hour gap (part of which was consumed just in going home and coming back again) in the middle of the day just seemed like wasted time.

F


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## JimTheDim

valerie said:
			
		

> Hey Magg,
> 
> The first time I went to Madrid, it was Christmas time and freezing, and I could not believe my eyes of how short were the skirts the girls were wearing in the street... So probably (some) British girls do not have the exclusivity of being "fashion slaves"
> 
> Pease correct my english, this phrase sounds really odd to me



Yes it does look odd and so here is my own correction:

The first time I went to Madrid, it was Christmas time and freezing, I could not believe my eyes how short girl's skirts were... So, probably (some), British girls are not exclusively "fashion slaves".

And I would like to add that in the North of England there was a trend to go out in as few clothes as possible even if it is snowing.  This is as stated before to do with how hot the pubs are but is equally to do with showing how "hard" you are.  Both males and females do this.


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## Magg

JimTheDim said:
			
		

> And I would like to add that in the North of England there was a trend to go out in as few clothes as possible even if it is snowing.  This is as stated before to do with how hot the pubs are but is equally to do with showing how "hard" you are.  Both males and females do this.



Would you say that it isn't a fashion any longer?

By the way, you live in such a charming place...


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## Tormenta

"Siesta and punctuality" 

Now, that's rubbing salt into the wound .  I am ethnically Spanish, born in BA, Argentina; I lived in Argentina until I finished high school and moved to Spain when I was 19.  I love both countries very much but Argentina is the country I call home.  
"Latin Americans are unpunctual and take naps".  Says who???

I grew up in Argentina, but I also spent 9 years in Costa Rica, Panama, and Guatemala. However, since I am Argentinean I will comment on Argentinean habits , mainly.

We cannot talk about "Latin America"as a whole.  So many million people, so many ethnicities, so many cultures and countries.......It is about time people understand that there is no such thing as a "Latin American" culture.

Argentina is a very large country which has almost all climate types.  The north is hot, and by hot I do not mean 25C , I mean 45C.  The people who work on the fields get up at 4 am and then, in the early afternoon, when it gets very hot they take a nap.  Then, they go back to work.
When I was in high school, I started classes at 6:50 am some days, and 7:30 am other days.  Here in England, my kids start at 8:54 am.

I do not think that people in BA or the South of Argentina take naps, but the ones in the north do ( not all of them, of course) and I do not blame them for that. 

In Argentina we do value punctuality: we are on time for work, school, formal appointments (doctors, interviews, etc). However, I must admit, when it's a party or informal meetings we are not very punctual. 

There is one thing I would like to say about Latin Americans as a whole.  I do not think they are Lazy; however, if I were to work for a multinational for $1,75 an hour, I would probably feel a little "lazy".  Do they value punctuality?  Perhaps they don't even know how to spell it, but they do value other things such as people.  And any one who visited Latin America can't deny that people value people and that they will offer you food and a helping hand even after you called them "unpunctual", "Lazy", etc.  

I do not know what the experts say, this is my opinion based on 28 yrs in that part of the world.


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## JimTheDim

Having aged past the desire to go out in the freezing cold with little on I can only go on Anecdotal evidence (my friend's twin 18 year old daughters).  They still go out with few clothes on and so I have to assume that it is still the fashion.  Well in Hull anyway.

I actually think that the hot pubs theory is correct.  If you are out for the night and all you are doing is moving from one pub to the next and each pub is equally hot what need have you for a coat or some such.  This I think is the argument.  It shows a curious lack of forethought since when the pubs and then the nightclubs all chuck out you either have to walk home or wait for a taxi.  This is when the people with coats stand in the queue dying with laughter at the others turning blue from the cold.

I never went out in winter without a coat and I was one of those who had to take his coat off every time I went in a pub and then hold it until we went back outside to go to the next.  I regretted the holding of the coat until the standing in the taxi queue freezing part started and then I used to laugh.


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> Sure I am!
> 
> Despite having guessed some of my physical traits and some of those concerning my nature, I'd like you to know that you're failing to describe me. I glimpse from your comments the kind of woman you have in mind, and I think she's the one everybody consider as the typical Spanish one. ANOTHER STEREOTYPE?
> 
> Un abrazo,
> Magg



I was poking fun at the stereotype, and certainly not at you.  Most stereotypes do have some, usually small, basis in fact.  After that little bit of fact, they are just prejudices that reveal the nature of those who propagate them.

I wear a boina de ala ancha, and have done so for decades, because it's comfortable, it reminds me of Spain, and mostly because I like it.  Wherever I travel in the U.S., people ask me if I'm an artist or a Frenchman!  Another stereotypes to debunk.  It does, however, support the stereotype of the American as, shall we say, something less than cosmopolitan.  

un abrazo,
cuchu


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## Ashura

Magg said:
			
		

> That high-heeled shoes stuff also got my attention. The campus I was living in was off the city (en el campo). So imagine the action of going to the nearest bus stop with the snow and do on. Jesus!



Well, some high heel shoes _are_ confortable. I have a pair that is, and with which I can walk quite a distance before it becomes painful.

---

Speaking of siesta, it's a healthy habit. After a good meal you generally feel sleepy, anyway, and the first few hours of the afternoon are the ones during which you're the less productive.

My personal stereotype of Spanish people is that they're partying a lot. That is, I had a Spanish roommate for one semester in college, and she _did_ party a lot


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## Magg

Ashura said:
			
		

> Well, some high heel shoes _are_ confortable. I have a pair that is, and with which I can walk quite a distance before it becomes painful.



Hi Ashura,

I have nothing against high-heeled shoes. My comment had to do with the fact that walking on a snowy ground, which is cold, wet and muddy, doesn't seem to be very pleasant.

Anyway, 'siesta' is really healthy. Unfotunately, I haven't time to practise it.   

Cheers


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## ABSURDO

What about Spanish "cuisine"?
It is as tasty and good as French Cuisine


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## pollyb

to Lady Blakeney
How nice for all of you to have second homes to vacation at! However I have met many Europeans who are visiting the USA and also travel from state to state in a limited time, same as Americans do in Europe(country to country). It is an expensive trip and for most people a once in a lifetime experience, so naturally we all try to see as much as possible. I don't know if Europeans realize how fortunate you are to have easy access to other countries. In the USA, we are so large, unless you live in the southwest and can access Mexico or live in the north and can visit Canada, we can only visit other states. Which is not a bad thing as our country is so diverse in natural beauty.
We also take leisurely vacations where we just vegetate on a beach somewhere or contemplate the beauty of the mountains or desert! Unfortunately we in the USA do not get as much vacation time as many people in Europe do. Some people only get 2 weeks off all year!  
Pollyb


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## pollyb

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> I was poking fun at the stereotype, and certainly not at you.  Most stereotypes do have some, usually small, basis in fact.  After that little bit of fact, they are just prejudices that reveal the nature of those who propagate them.
> 
> I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wear a boina de ala ancha, and have done so for decades, because it's comfortable, it reminds me of Spain, and mostly because I like it.  Wherever I travel in the U.S., people ask me if I'm an artist or a Frenchman!  Another stereotypes to debunk.  It does, however, support the stereotype of the American as, shall we say, something less than cosmopolitan.
> 
> 
> 
> un abrazo,
> cuchu
Click to expand...


Are you saying that because you are wearing an outdated garment you are less than cosmopolitan, or are you insinuating that Americans are less than cosmopolitan? Have you walked down Madison Av in NYC or Newbury St in Boston lately? or Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, the stores on these streets and probably many more like them have plenty in common with the best Paris and Milan shops  
I think you need to leave your little Maine village more often

Pollyb


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## Silvia

Let's stick to the matter.  Some kind of personal stereotype or mental image of Spain:
- people in the South are easy going, that would be something in common with the South of Italy
- they try to understand you no matter what language you're speaking, even with gestures (that's a very good trait and not many cultures can claim to have it)
- they eat very late at night, unlike any other place I've been to, if you enter a restaurant before 10 you're likely to be the only guest! Or look around, other tourists?  
- Spanish people like to drink wine and they eat a lot of different tapas (and now I suddenly remembered I still have to figure out how they do "patatas bravas"!)

I could go on I guess, but I'll stop here. I hope it's enough!

By the way, 2 things more:
Dave, your kind of joke really made me smile!
And, how can anyone talk about fashion and England at the same time?!  (No one stoned Cuchu, so I'm expecting the same treatment   )


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## Tormenta

silviap said:
			
		

> Let's stick to the matter.  Some kind of personal stereotype or mental image of Spain:
> - people in the South are easy going, that would be something in common with the South of Italy
> - they try to understand you no matter what language you're speaking, even with gestures (that's a very good trait and not many cultures can claim to have it)
> - they eat very late at night, unlike any other place I've been to, if you enter a restaurant before 10 you're likely to be the only guest! Or look around, other tourists?
> - Spanish people like to drink wine and they eat a lot of different tapas (and now I suddenly remembered I still have to figure out how they do "patatas bravas"!)
> 
> I could go on I guess, but I'll stop here. I hope it's enough!
> 
> By the way, 2 things more:
> Dave, your kind of joke really made me smile!
> And, how can anyone talk about fashion and England at the same time?!  (*No one stoned Cuchu, so I'm expecting the same treatment  *






Cuchu received a private stoning, but as you know, he is special!  


Tormenta


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## pollyb

silviap said:
			
		

> PHP:
> 
> 
> Let's stick to the matter.
> 
> Some kind of personal stereotype or mental image of Spain:
> - people in the South are easy going, that would be something in common with the South of Italy
> - they try to understand you no matter what language you're speaking, even with gestures (that's a very good trait and not many cultures can claim to have it)
> - they eat very late at night, unlike any other place I've been to, if you enter a restaurant before 10 you're likely to be the only guest! Or look around, other tourists?
> - Spanish people like to drink wine and they eat a lot of different tapas (and now I suddenly remembered I still have to figure out how they do "patatas bravas"!)
> 
> I could go on I guess, but I'll stop here. I hope it's enough!
> 
> By the way, 2 things more:
> Dave, your kind of joke really made me smile!
> And, how can anyone talk about fashion and England at the same time?!  (No one stoned Cuchu, so I'm expecting the same treatment   )



Silviap
I think you should go back to the original question in this forum  on stereotypes, which was not specifically dealing with Spain or Spanish people
but stereotypes in general  
pollyb


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## Silvia

I'll write a book soon


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## cuchuflete

pollyb said:
			
		

> Are you saying that because you are wearing an outdated garment you are less than cosmopolitan, or are you insinuating that Americans are less than cosmopolitan? Have you walked down Madison Av in NYC or Newbury St in Boston lately? or Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, the stores on these streets and probably many more like them have plenty in common with the best Paris and Milan shops
> I think you need to leave your little Maine village more often
> 
> Pollyb



Pollyb-
Thanks for chiming in, even at my expense.  I have worked in Beverly Hills,
worked at 51st Street at Fifth Ave. in NYC, and get to Boston frequently.
Fancy shops with the latest styles have nothing, I repeat, *nothing* to do with my definition of cosmopolitan.  

I am not insinuating that Americans are less than cosmopolitan.  I am stating it, asserting it, and asseverating it.  While those who frequent this forum are among the exceptions who prove the rule, the great majority of our countrymen know little, and care less about the world beyond the borders of their cities or states.  Look at the local newspaper in Omaha--where I have also lived--and try to find more than a couple of small articles about anything beyond U.S. borders.  Ask your neighbors and friends the difference between
the Common Market and the E.U.  Try to engage an American college student in a conversation about the differences between European and American reactions to Jazz.  Then tell me how important foreign languages and cultural studies are in your local public schools, compared to the football team.

After that perhaps we may have a discussion about how cosmopolitan Americans are.  They/we have many admirable and endearing qualities.
Worldliness is not among them for the majority.

Best regards,
Cuchu

PD- your description of the boina as 'outdated' shows your prejudice for 
trendy fashion.  This article of clothing continues to be worn by thousands of people in France and Spain and elsewhere.  I suppose they are not 'cosmopolitan' by your narrow definition.


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## jakkaro

morgana said:
			
		

> I would like foreign people to stop thinking that Italian men always pinch the girl's "back parts". It's not true and if somebody does it, he deserves a punch in the face!
> 
> Cheers



Hi Morgana
I totally agree with you, and not only for italians but also for everybody else. I lived in Brussels for 5 years and there girls are not "pinched" but openly molested bothered by aggresive men asking stupid questions or comments every day... (not by the belgian boys of course)... and, honestly, as a girl i ended up avoiding certain streets or certein kind of people in the streets...

As for the spaniards... i am living in Spain now, and I can say that I haven't experienced of somebody beeing unreasonable late.... and even if it would be like that, I think that punctuality is relative and depending on each country, so if you'd go to Colombia or Brazil, a punctual person would maybe have to wait for one hour, but hey, you are in a foreign country, so the point is: adapt yourself and come late as well!!!


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## Tomasoria

I'm just going to meddle in this conversation that seems so interesting to me...Just one thing to SILVIAP...I'm from Andalusia, you know deep south Spain, birthplace to flamenco music, many tapas, good jamón, etc, etc...in one word, the mother of all spanish sterotypes. Some of then are true, others just long-time gone ones...But believe me, I've been to Italy many times and the south of the boot is not as similar to Andalucía as you may think...I just ask you to drop by both places and see the differences by yourself...

    As for Americans, CUCHU you're partly right, putting aside some areas in the west coast and pacific coast, the USA is a desert full of empty minds...sorry for being so clear ¡¡¡¡. But don't forget: As empty as many europeans who still think that all spaniards take siesta in summertime (which is true) , britons are all hooligans whenever they follow a football team (which is also true)  and americans are all red necks chewing gums in huge malls outside Springfield (which is no less true)...

    By the way, SILVIAP I can give you the unique recipe for "PATATAS A LA BRAVA"....

    cheerio


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## Silvia

Tomasoria said:
			
		

> I just ask you to drop by both places and see the differences by yourself...


 I've been there, I know what I'm talking about   



> By the way, SILVIAP I can give you the unique recipe for "PATATAS A LA BRAVA"....



Do tell! Do tell!!!!


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## Tomasoria

Silvia, I'm right off the office to cook extraordinary papas a la brava...I'll tell you the recipe this afyernoom...

  se me hace la boca agua...uuuummhhhh ¡¡¡


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## Tomasoria

here's your recipe:

  Choose good potatoes and cut them in dices or pieces as big enough as to allow them being crusty outside and spongy and soft in the inside. Once you've fried them in GOOD OLIVE OIL (spanish one, of course ¡¡¡) you leave them in a paper napkin to let some oil out.

   The secret of the papas a la brava is the SAUCE: make a good mayonnaise (just as good as you mother would cook) by adding the usual ingredients (eggs, salt and SPANISH olive oil): I suggets low gradation olive oil, a soft one otherwise the mayonnaise may turn too tasty...but if you like strong flavour, go ahead with a real extra-virgin oil from picual or frantoio variety. 

    Once the mayonnaise is ready, add some Ketchup (YES KETCHUP...ASEREJE ¡¡¡¡). Use The HEINZ one...just in honour of poor John Kerry...he won`t be president of the USA but , at least, his woman will go on increasing her fortune.

     Mix mayonnaise and ketchup...add Tabasco, amount depending on how resistant  your stomach is and finally a bit of cognac...or better Brandy, which is the same...to give an original touch.

    Don't forget the salt. Serve all this quite hot...and enjoy.

 Your turn with Tortellini Bolognese.

    Que aproveche ¡¡¡


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## pollyb

cuchuflete
my my my you are insulting aren't you? I believe that New York and Boston and many other areas of this country are very cosmopolitan due to the fact that so many immigrants have come to these areas in the past and are still immigrating even today.
If you walk down the street in these cities you hear a wonderful variety of non-english language being spoken. I don't know anything about people living in Omaha, Nebraska, but with the first rate educational facilities located in the metro Boston area are full of "cosmopolitan" people. I guess that is why so many come from other countries to study and live here!! 
As for my prejudice for trendy fashion, I don't have a clue what at boina is, but if it makes you happy to wear it, so be.
Also, I have been exposed to newspapers from Paris/London and have seen very little about American life in these papers. As for discussing jazz, I do believe there are many more important issues in today's world for college students to discuss.
I think that many of the people in this forum have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands, and need to get out in the world and away from their computers
pollyb


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## Tomasoria

POLLYB.

 I thank you for your remark about americans...we spare no effort when it comes to criticize U.S citizens...But we usually hide the fact that the U.S.A is the country with more nobel price awards, Truman Capote and John Steinbeck homeland, the birthplace for the most important music in the 20th Century: Jazz, R&R,...People like Gershwin, Edison, PAul Newman, Woody Allen, Wright George, Marx (Groucho, not Karl), Henry Ford, and many others were born and raised there...THEY WERE NO DUMBS AT ALL...just simply Americans.

 hey SILVIAP....what about my recipe??


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## dvquo

Tormenta, I agree with you. There's not such a thing as Latin American culture. Even inside a country there are so many cultures and ethinicies that is impossible to encircle everything in one concept. Here in Mexico in most of the states people is very punctual, specially in the North. In the South some people are, some not; depending on the region. In Mexico City there's no pattern, is so over-populated that there's no a pattern for the "chilango". Just imagine a city of approximately 25 million people, with around 8 million people that during day cross the limit from their state to the city to work here. This is a mess of people, culture, habits, and cars!!! 
Stereotypes for the Mexican:
-That he is lazy. Generally the Mexican is not lazy, we are hard-working people. The difference is that we like parties, and have parties a lot of times during the year.
-That likes parties and friends. That's right. We have a lot of holidays and parties. Just read my description of Mexican Xmas.
-Hats as the one of the mariachis. Nobody uses that, and believe around 15 years ago in Japan (my mother went) they thought we ride horses and wear that types of hats... ????
-Tanned skin. Usually that's just in towns. In cities there's a lot of diversity (specially in Mexico City, just imagine that amount of people in the smallest district in Mexico just considering the surface area.

And about "cosmopolitan" Americans, I cannot give a direct opinion because I have never visited the staes. My Sociology teacher (she is from Boston, and has lived in other states, I don't remember which) also thinks they are not cosmopolitan (considering that includes their curiosity about the world outside US). She says that US news have senseless news about local events, and just some few about foreign happenings. That's the opinion of Susan Dennen, my sociology teacher. 
Here in Mexico people in general is cosmopolitan in very big cities (as Mexico City... the capital of Mexico). About the "world issue" newspapers talk usually a lot about the world. You just have to visit El Universal webpage (it has an English section). You can also visit La Jornada webpage; it has no English section but I consider it one of the best Mexican newspapers.


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## Silvia

Tomasoria! Sorry! I've just read your wonderful recipe!!!

I'm going to prepare them for the weekend I guess   

Thank you very much!

Now I'm sorry but I'm not the right person to ask for a recipe of Tortellini alla bolognese, I'm not from Emilia, I'm from Lombardy


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## ABSURDO

I would like some american guy explain me how is the true american way of life.
Is it quite different from Simpson´s life??

if US is changing, why is G.W. Bush winning the elections again??

the more I watch to MTV the more I hate the TV. Spanish TV programmes are getting worst and worst each year....


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## Tomasoria

silviap said:
			
		

> Tomasoria! Sorry! I've just read your wonderful recipe!!!
> 
> I'm going to prepare them for the weekend I guess
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> Now I'm sorry but I'm not the right person to ask for a recipe of Tortellini alla bolognese, I'm not from Emilia, I'm from Lombardy




OK, enjoy the papas a la brava and take them with some good red wine from Lombardia...

  buen fin de semana Milanesa


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## chicagogirl

"The secret of the papas a la brava is the SAUCE: make a good mayonnaise (just as good as you mother would cook) by adding the usual ingredients (eggs, salt and SPANISH olive oil): I suggets low gradation olive oil, a soft one otherwise the mayonnaise may turn too tasty...but if you like strong flavour, go ahead with a real extra-virgin oil from picual or frantoio variety..."


For those of us whose mothers never taught us to make mayonnaise, what's the secret? I tried one time to make the mayonaisse for bouillabaisse (the kind with bread crumbs) and it was a disaster! I couldn't get the oil to be absorbed. And I did use good olive oil.

I know this is a French dish, but I'd appreciate mayonnaise-making tips from anyone who knows how.


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## valerie

I have to go now, tomorrow I'll tell you how I make the mayonnaise


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## chicagogirl

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.


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## Tomasoria

Hey ¡¡¡ So the subject now is not Stereotypes but MAYONNAISE. I'm really bad at making sauces and mayonnaise...You need a good wrist and keep the mixer working the right time...LA mayonesa se puede cortar muy facilmente.

  The problem with olive oil is its tasty flavour, sometimes too much, that it can ruin the mayonnaise...try with a soft olive oil. Another option is to buy canned mayonnaise, there are goods ones in the market...but the home-made one is always more authentic...

   VALERIE we're waiting for your recipe for a real mayonnaise...

   cheerio


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## Magg

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Pollyb-
> Thanks for chiming in, even at my expense.  I have worked in Beverly Hills,
> worked at 51st Street at Fifth Ave. in NYC, and get to Boston frequently.
> Fancy shops with the latest styles have nothing, I repeat, *nothing* to do with my definition of cosmopolitan.
> 
> I am not insinuating that Americans are less than cosmopolitan.  I am stating it, asserting it, and asseverating it.  While those who frequent this forum are among the exceptions who prove the rule, the great majority of our countrymen know little, and care less about the world beyond the borders of their cities or states.  Look at the local newspaper in Omaha--where I have also lived--and try to find more than a couple of small articles about anything beyond U.S. borders.  Ask your neighbors and friends the difference between
> the Common Market and the E.U.  Try to engage an American college student in a conversation about the differences between European and American reactions to Jazz.  Then tell me how important foreign languages and cultural studies are in your local public schools, compared to the football team.
> 
> After that perhaps we may have a discussion about how cosmopolitan Americans are.  They/we have many admirable and endearing qualities.
> Worldliness is not among them for the majority.
> 
> Best regards,
> Cuchu
> 
> PD- your description of the boina as 'outdated' shows your prejudice for
> trendy fashion.  This article of clothing continues to be worn by thousands of people in France and Spain and elsewhere.  I suppose they are not 'cosmopolitan' by your narrow definition.




Dearest Cuchu,

You're so accurate in your comments. I totally agree with you when you state that most Americans have no idea on what's going on beyond the country borders. As we'd say: *no ven más allá de sus narices*.

I'm going speak clearly and say that I have a contradictory feeling concerning the States, and it's that of love and hatred. I know very little about the country, and the most I know it's because of the mass media, movies...

I've never questioned their way of life, cultural issues, etc., but the other way around. I kind of feel fascinated with such a culture, as I admire others, too. What I really dislike of them is exactly what you've mentioned, that the only living country in the world seems to be theirs.

Before visiting New York, I was expecting to find a very cosmopolitan city, which offered me new views on life, and I was really eager to experience that. And certainly New York can show visitors interesting things, but I must admit I got a bit desappointed. I really think that the city has a mixture of a cosmopolitan way of life and a remain of old-fashined matters which appear to be vulgar (I meant *'hortera'*) sometimes, at least to me.

Whenever I switched the TV on to watch the news to get some knowledge about what was going on in the world, I always listened to local one mainly, and some referreing the country. *'La vieja europa' * and of course the rest of the world seemed to have disappeared.

Anyway, whatever I say or think about the US, I'd love to go over there and know different states 'cause, I insist, I do like that country.

BTW, Cuchu, is there any state in your country you've never worked or lived in? You're a lucky man.

Best wishes,
Magg


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## valerie

That's the way I do the Mayonnaise:

Ingredients:
- 1 egg yolk
- 1 small spoon of vinegar
- 1 small spoon of mustard (the french strong one)
- a clove of garlic (this is not absolutely required, but I always do it with it)
- a pinch of salt
- oil (I use solft olive oil for spanish guests, and sunflower oil for french guests)
- a bowl, I use one of those I use for breakfast (15cm diameter). If you need more than the bowl may content, it is better to do it twice than to double quantities (do not ask why, it is like that) 
- a fork
Ingredients should not be cold, but at ambient temperature

Pinch the garlic glove with the fork, you will use this to stir the mayonnaise in the bowl. Put the yowl in the bowl, add the mustard and the salt. Put the vinegar into the small spoon, and warm it (on your kitchen fire, or with a lighter), Add it into the bowl, and start stirring with the fork. You have to make circles with the fork, without changing the direction of the circle (that is important). Start adding oil, very slowly, and go on stirring. Never stop stirring in circles. Go on stirring and adding the oil very slowly, till it is done (the bowl is full, for example). Remove the fork and the garlic
You can keep it in the refrigerator, but it is better to consume it within 2 or 3 days.

It may take 10 to 20 minutes, but it has never failed me, and it is very good.

_Please, be so nice as to correct my English, thanks_


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## Tomasoria

Thanks Valerie...

 But this garlic clove you add makes the Mayonnaise turn into the renowned catalan ALIOLI...isn't it??

  Shall we change the name of this thread "CUISINE" instead of "STEROTYPE"??

    Viva la Mayonesa ¡¡¡


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## cuchuflete

Magg said:
			
		

> Dearest Cuchu,
> 
> You're so accurate in your comments. I totally agree with you when you state that most Americans have no idea on what's going on beyond the country borders. As we'd say: *no ven más allá de sus narices*.
> 
> I'm going speak clearly and say that I have a contradictory feeling concerning the States, and it's that of love and hatred. I know very little about the country, and the most I know it's because of the mass media, movies...
> 
> I've never questioned their way of life, cultural issues, etc., but the other way around. I kind of feel fascinated with such a culture, as I admire others, too. What I really dislike of them is exactly what you've mentioned, that the only living country in the world seems to be theirs.
> 
> Before visiting New York, I was expecting to find a very cosmopolitan city, which offered me new views on life, and I was really eager to experience that. And certainly New York can show visitors interesting things, but I must admit I got a bit desappointed. I really think that the city has a mixture of a cosmopolitan way of life and a remain of old-fashined matters which appear to be vulgar (I meant *'hortera'*) sometimes, at least to me.
> 
> Whenever I switched the TV on to watch the news to get some knowledge about what was going on in the world, I always listened to local one mainly, and some referreing the country. *'La vieja europa' * and of course the rest of the world seemed to have disappeared.
> 
> Anyway, whatever I say or think about the US, I'd love to go over there and know different states 'cause, I insist, I do like that country.
> 
> BTW, Cuchu, is there any state in your country you've never worked or lived in? You're a lucky man.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Magg



Magg, 
Thanks for your enlightening reply.  I read a lot of European newspapers and magazines to avoid getting trapped into only seeing my own country from within.

As to the lack of a broad world view or concern, I find much of the U.S. to be like many villages in the interior of España, Portugal, and other places where I've travelled.  The "outside" just doesn't attract people's attention.   This is not a criticism; it's just a factual observation.

It makes me remember crossing the border between your country and Portugal  somewhere near Bragança.  Both the Guardia Civil and the Portuguese border guard would not believe I was from the eeuu, despite my passport, because I spoke their languages.  The only foreigner they had ever met before who spoke Spanish and Portuguese was a German Professor, so they both assumed I was Alemán/Alemão. They kept insisting that I was German!  It was hilarious, but so typical of people who are isolated from el mundo fuera de su aldea.  So it is in the US.  Millions of people have no sense of what it's like, "out there".

I don't criticize their values or basic decency.  I simply recognize that their world view is narrow.

Un abrazo,
Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

To return to a lighter topic,  in the US, Californians are reputed to put mayonnaise and sprouts on everything they eat...almost.  I thought this was a silly rumor.  Then I married a Californian!

Some stereotypes have a basis in fact!

saludos,
Cuchufléte

PD- Although the lady in question is among the very finest people I have ever met, the union didn't last...I prefer ajo y salsa picante.  Irreconcilable differences, as they say.


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## dave

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> To return to a lighter topic,  in the US, Californians are reputed to put mayonnaise and sprouts on everything they eat...almost.



Hi Cuchu - I have a feeling that this is one of those AmE/BrE faux amis things, but I have to ask what *sprouts * are overe there. Over this side of the water they are vile, small, green, cabbage-like vegetables that people only ever eat at Christms, and I really wouldn't fancy putting them on my chips (even with mayonnaise!).


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## chicagogirl

Thanks for the recipe, Valerie. I think what I did wrong before was that the egg was too cold. These instructions are much clearer than the ones I used. I'll let you know how it turns out. 

Regarding "sprouts": in the US we have different kinds of sprouts. Brussels sprouts (the small cabbages) and alfalfa sprouts (which are thin seedling things and are very good on sandwhiches).


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## Sharon

Another type of sprout is bean sprouts, similar to alfalfa sprouts. I just googled "bean sprouts" and I learned that they come in different varieties of beans - black beans, garbanzo beans, lentils, and many more. (For some reason, it seemed to me that only one kind was used.) According to the website I visited, every one of them has a different flavor. (*Vile*.  )


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## Silvia

valerie, that recipe is quite strange. No lemon? But with mustard?

Funny thing about mayonnaise: it was invented by the French thanks to Italians who introduced olive oil to France  It's a small world...


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## cuchuflete

dave said:
			
		

> Hi Cuchu - I have a feeling that this is one of those AmE/BrE faux amis things, but I have to ask what *sprouts * are overe there. Over this side of the water they are vile, small, green, cabbage-like vegetables that people only ever eat at Christms, and I really wouldn't fancy putting them on my chips (even with mayonnaise!).



Hi Dave-

I think you are speaking about what we call Brussels Sprouts.  I agree with your definition when they are store-bought, but I grow them in my garden, and picked fresh and steamed lightly, they are sweet and delicious. They are in the cabbage family.
The sprouts mentioned earlier are bean sprouts, tiny, tender when fresh, and very tasty...sort of like vegetarian cotton candy.  When they are old they taste like the vegetarian equivalent of road kill.

Buy local organic veggies and be healthy!  Better yet, grow your own.

Cuchu


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## joandkez

me and ma mate dont agree thAt the english are bad at cooking being english ourselves and living in the united kingdom we actually know that our food is good maybe not the best but most certainly good. The fact that people like to stereotype us is not our problem.


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## QUIJOTE

All this thread is doing is making very hungry  , which brings me to my compliment on "Tapas" in Spain you guys bring a new meaning to the word appetizer.


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## Andræs

Hola:

I don´t know if those who lived in Spain will agree, but I won weight as I first came to the country just by eating tapas... I learned to control my self now. (For my own sake) 

Andrês.


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## meili

On Stereotypes:

In the Philippines, most Filipinos are doing _siesta_, especially those who are just staying at home, are on break, the aged and children.  (When I was little, my Grandmama used to spank me because I just refused to take my afternoon nap and would prefer playing with my primas.

Filipinos also love _fiestas_ - especially those who live in the provinces?  Some will go out of their way and borrow or loan money from others just to celebrate the feast of the Patron Saints.

And another (though MANY are practicing to PROVE IT WRONG AND UNPROFITABLE!), we are known to be 'not on time!'  Sad and irritating but true, when I was in school (from kindergarten to college!), almost all events are 1 to 2 hours late!  But right now we can see slogans such as *Filipino time is on time!*

And, we got these traits from the Spaniards!  

Other cultures include images and pictures of Mother Mary, Jesus and the Saints in Catholic Filipino homes!

I am from a city where the Spanish conquerors has the most stay and influenced, however, right now I moved to another city.  My caretaker asked me the other day: _Oh, you should be lazy, you are from that city.  You are 'Spanish' people, right?_ But he as well immediately said: _Perhaps I am wrong, don't be mad!  I see that you are not lazy, you came all the way here to work!_

It all depends on the person, I say!


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## VenusEnvy

I'd like to introduce a new stereotype. I realize that we're talking here about stereotyping people from different cultures and countries. Well, I really try not to hold too many of those, and to look at the individual. And, to be honest, I can't think of too many!

As a side note, I recently began working in an office of all women. (Big mistake, first of all.    ) During the times we eat lunch together, the topic seems to either be on diets, or celebrities. *Food*: I simply don't see the point in spending every waking moment of the day worrying about calories, carbs, fat content, etc. I simply eat healthily, and enjoy life. *Celebrities*: When they begin to ramble on about Brad Pitt's new relationship, I can't find a thing to say, because I don't know who is dating, nor do I care. But, I feel expected to keep up on these things.

I, of course, live in the USA. Does anyone else stereotype women as how I have described? Does this occur in your country? Women?


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## meili

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I, of course, live in the USA. Does anyone else stereotype women as how I have described? Does this occur in your country? Women?


 
Uh-huh!  You said it right?  

Also, what is famous in the Philippines are women's gossips! hehehe.. And when I say gossip I mean talking of other women's (and men's) lovelife, sexlife - all the real spices!   When I moved to this part of the country (where my current work is located), we had this female neighbor who always make it a point to update us about our other neighbor's (one who lives in the next apartment) latest boyfriend.  (I have to stop here!  We are not with showbusiness!)     Good thing is, she eventually stopped visiting me and my two girlfriends!  What with all the ungenuine smiles and cold shoulders.

Some women friends and acquaintances I know would even say: _You don't know?!  Where we're you?  It's all over the grapevine!"_ 

I say that I do not allow them to affect me.  Such busy people


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