# Morro and moro



## NotTheRedBaron

Ola,

I understand that Morro means "I die" and moro means "I live".

I was always told by my friends in Lisboa that morro is pronounced like mor-hoo (that is to say, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h') but that the single 'r' in moro is pronounced like a strong 'r'.

You have other words like carro (car) and caro (expensive).

On the Michel Thomas Portuguese Advanced Course, the presenter says that in some areas of Portugal, people will pronounced morro and moro the same.  This really puzzles me, because, naturally, this would cause confusion.   If morro is to die and moro is to live, then the verbs mean exactly the opposite of each other.   And a sentence such as "Morro em Lisboa" and "Moro em Lisboa" spoken could mean the difference between life and death - quite literally.

I've listened to Forvo where you can hear native speakers of both Portugal and Brazil, and on every sound recording there is always a difference between moro and morro and caro and carro (as explained above, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h').

Just to clear this up, please could a native Portuguese speaker tell me what they think is correct.

many thanks indeed!


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## Jabir

First of all, "moro" does not means "to live" as oppposed to "to die" (the verb to that would be "viver"). "Moro" comes from the verb "morar", and it means "to live somewhere". For examplo, "moro no Brazil" = "I live in Brazil"; "moro em uma casa grande" = "I live in a big house"...

Second, I've never heard any one speaking "morro" and "moro" the same way. Maybe some Portuguese brother can help on that matter.


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## caelum

I can't see any possible way that those two phonemes (VrV/VrrV) can be pronounced the same way.


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## Nino83

EP: morro [moʁu] moro [moɾu] 
BP: morro [mohu] moro [moɾu] 

In some rural part of Portugal _double r_ is pronounced as an alveolar trill [r] or [rr] (and not as a flap or tap [ɾ]), so you can hear [moru/morru] for morro and [moɾu] for moro. 

I don't know if there are other accents with other pronunciations.


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## SofiaB

Jabir said:


> First of all, "moro" does not means "to live" as oppposed to "to die" (the verb to that would be "viver"). "Moro" comes from the verb "morar", and it means "to live somewhere". For examplo, "moro no Brazil" = "I live in Brazil"; "moro em uma casa grande" = "I live in a big house"...
> 
> Second, I've never heard any one speaking "morro" and "moro" the same way. Maybe some Portuguese brother can help on that matter.


I agree with this moro (I live =I reside)I also have never hear Portuguese speaking natives from any country pronounce them the same. Anything is possible including people with a speech impediment.


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## diego-rj

There's also a difference in the first o:

morro [mohu]
moro  [mɔru]


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## NotTheRedBaron

Ola amigos e amigas,

Obrigado pela sua ajuda!


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## Carfer

NotTheRedBaron said:


> Just to clear this up, please could a native Portuguese speaker tell me what they think is correct.



I do not know of any place in Portugal where '_morro_' and '_moro_' would sound the same. Right, there's a few places where 'r' and 'rr' are not pronounced the standard way, but confusion would be impossible if not because in _'moro_' the first '_o_' is always open and in _'morro_' it's always closed. Anyway even in those parts the way they pronounce the '_r_'s doesn't give way to any confusion.


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## Vanda

The only way I can think of someone pronouncing morro como moro is, for example, my Czech, that pronounces carro and caro the very same way. That would be the same with morro and moro.


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## caelum

Yeah, but that would be somebody mispronouncing one of them. I don't think that counts, because outside of learners of Portuguese, I find it highly unlikely that these "synonyms" would happen.


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## Vanda

Nope, I said ''my Czech", so a foreigner. And the Italians - old ones - living here, would pronounce these words like that too.


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## mateus-BR

NotTheRedBaron said:


> Ola,
> 
> I understand that Morro means "I die" and moro means "I live".
> 
> I was always told by my friends in Lisboa that morro is pronounced like mor-hoo (that is to say, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h') but that the single 'r' in moro is pronounced like a strong 'r'.
> 
> You have other words like carro (car) and caro (expensive).
> 
> On the Michel Thomas Portuguese Advanced Course, the presenter says that in some areas of Portugal, people will pronounced morro and moro the same.  This really puzzles me, because, naturally, this would cause confusion.   If morro is to die and moro is to live, then the verbs mean exactly the opposite of each other.   And a sentence such as "Morro em Lisboa" and "Moro em Lisboa" spoken could mean the difference between life and death - quite literally.
> 
> I've listened to Forvo where you can hear native speakers of both Portugal and Brazil, and on every sound recording there is always a difference between moro and morro and caro and carro (as explained above, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h').
> 
> Just to clear this up, please could a native Portuguese speaker tell me what they think is correct.
> 
> many thanks indeed!



NotTheRedBaron,

I agree with Jabir and I let some amends. (Morro and Moro)
These words don't have the same pronounciation, even if the "R" and "RR" are pronounced alike.
At least here in Brazil, the meaning difference is in the "O", because it sounds closed in "Morro" and open in "Moro". The O in 'môrro' sounds like in "gOal", and in 'móro', sounds like in "thOught" (not exactly). In southern Brazil, many persons will say "Eu môru de medo de cobras" (I'm so afraid of snakes) and "Eu móru em Palotina" (I live in Palotina).
I don't know if in Portugal there is the same difference in the vowel. (yes, there is, Carfer is from Portugal and had told the same).
The sound of a vowel in Portuguese is very importand to determinate the meaning of a word. Avô = Grandfather / Avó = Grandmother; Corte(ô) = Court / Corte(ó) = Cut; Choro(ô) = Mourning / Choro(ó) = I cry;

Kind regards!


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## Nino83

Vanda said:


> Nope, I said ''my Czech", so a foreigner. And the Italians - old ones - living here, would pronounce these words like that too.



The Italians (from Italy) would pronounce the first with a double trilled _r_ and the second with a single trilled _r_ or a tap _r_, in the same way as in some rural area of Portugal.


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## Jabir

Now I think of it... Here, in the rural area of São Paulo, I don't know other states, in the "caipira" dialect, it is common to pronounce them the same way!

Just listen to Tonico e Tinoco and you will see what I'm talking about 

Even when "r" comes first in word, like "rato", it is pronounced like the "r" in "caro", for example.


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## mateus-BR

Jabir said:


> Now I think of it... Here, in the rural area of São Paulo, I don't know other states, in the "caipira" dialect, it is common to pronounce them the same way!
> 
> Just listen to Tonico e Tinoco and you will see what I'm talking about
> 
> Even when "r" comes first in word, like "rato", it is pronounced like the "r" in "caro", for example.



Discordo de você Jabir.
Ainda que a letra R seja pronunciada vibrante em ambas as palavras, o som da letra 'o' é claramente diferente, mesmo no "dialeto caipira".
Veja #12 e #8


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## Brasimericano

mateus-BR said:


> The sound of a vowel in Portuguese is very importand to determinate the meaning of a word. Avô = Grandfather / Avó = Grandmother; Corte(ô) = Court / Corte(ó) = Cut; Choro(ô) = Mourning / Choro(ó) = I cry;
> 
> Kind regards!



Mispronounced vowels can also result in undesirable consequences when ordering *suco de coco *


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## caelum

Brasimericano said:


> Mispronounced vowels can also result in undesirable consequences when ordering *suco de coco *



I can only imagine the laughs one would get.


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## ReiDaPutaria

NotTheRedBaron said:


> Ola,
> 
> I understand that Morro means "I die" and moro means "I live".
> 
> I was always told by my friends in Lisboa that morro is pronounced like mor-hoo (that is to say, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h') but that the single 'r' in moro is pronounced like a strong 'r'.
> 
> You have other words like carro (car) and caro (expensive).
> 
> On the Michel Thomas Portuguese Advanced Course, the presenter says that in some areas of Portugal, people will pronounced morro and moro the same.  This really puzzles me, because, naturally, this would cause confusion.   If morro is to die and moro is to live, then the verbs mean exactly the opposite of each other.   And a sentence such as "Morro em Lisboa" and "Moro em Lisboa" spoken could mean the difference between life and death - quite literally.
> 
> I've listened to Forvo where you can hear native speakers of both Portugal and Brazil, and on every sound recording there is always a difference between moro and morro and caro and carro (as explained above, the 'rr' sounds like a 'h').
> 
> Just to clear this up, please could a native Portuguese speaker tell me what they think is correct.
> 
> many thanks indeed!



I know from travels and being Brazilian, that many of the Portuguese pronounce the "rr" as a trilled sound like Spanish although it is more breathy (hard concept for non-natives to grasp), while Brasilians pronounce it as an "h" *usually*, depending on the dialect. There are still many Brasilians who pronounce the "rr" as a trill and the single "r" at the beginning of the word as a hard vocalized "r" sound, but it is easier from a native ear to discern the meaning due to more exposure to the breathy and stressed intonations that are so common with vowels and transitions in Portuguese. From my point of view, I believe that you should just stick with the traditional way of pronunciation (depending on the version of Portuguese you are learning) and not be too worried about the stranger, atypical pronunciations. 

On another note, you should think of the verb "morar" as "to dwell" or to "inhabit" as opposed to "to live" because it stirs up too much confusion with non-native, English speakers.


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