# Kanji and Hiragana Selection



## Cereth

Hello, I was the other day in the train and I saw an ad....
Words like Sugoi, kakkoii and Akihabara were written in katakana....
I thought only foreign words required katakana...I asked for my friend to explain such matter to me, but he said he couldn´t explain. The only thing he said is that the use of katakana instead of hiragana correspond to a particular intention/feeling. What was he talking about? Japanese forer@s do you agree?


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## claire_of_the_moon

I learned that when native words are written in katakana it's just for emphasis.  It's the same as bolding or underlining a word in English.


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## Qcumber

Isn't it simply to indicate the pronunciation? This way everybody can read it.


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## Aoyama

The change of graphy is for emphasis. The reverse is also true. Foreign words written in katana will appear _cuter_ (kawai) when written in hiragana. めるし、ふぁみり、ぷちとまと ...


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## jp_fr_linguaphile

claire_of_the_moon said:


> I learned that when native words are written in katakana it's just for emphasis. It's the same as bolding or underlining a word in English.


That's true.  Words that express emotion are often written in katakana for emphasis.  This is practice is followed almost exclusively in manga.  

アキハバラ, though, may have been written in katakana so the pronunciation would be known.


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## Captain Haddock

claire_of_the_moon said:


> I learned that when native words are written in katakana it's just for emphasis.  It's the same as bolding or underlining a word in English.



Quite so. Katakana seems almost identical to _italics_ in printed English, actually — a separate style used to mark emphasis, words from other languages, and sound effects. 

Additional uses of katakana with no English equivalent:
- to indicate the _on_ reading of kanji
- to mark foreign-accented Japanese (in manga, etc.)
- to write telegrams


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## Flaminius

I concur with everyone.  Katakana was devised as a means to indicate kanji reading for kambun.  It was destined to be the script of phonetic representation as opposed to kanji, whose focus was to convey meaning rather than pronunciation.  Hiragana was also phonetic but its earliest writers were primarily women who, even in the educated class, were excluded from kambun education.  This script, therefore, was less regarded as a device for phonetic representation.

Katakana's function as phonetic representation is manifest in today's Japanese such as use for loan words, onomatopoeia and _on_ reading.  Focus on the phonology can lead to disregard or obfuscation of the meaning.  Thus, katakana has become a tool for dissimilation.  Foreign-accented Japanese (sometimes space-accented in science fictions etc.) is written in katakana relying on this function of katakana.  Even Japanese words can be written in katakana when it is not fully understood by the audience.  An imagery of a child springs to mind who is repeating an unfamiliar word that he just overheard, "トチヲバイキャクスル?"


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## Cereth

ahhh...I understand now! 
Arigatou minna san  =^.^=


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## cheshire

おかしのいえ [漢字で書いたら「硬い」けどひらがなで書いたらやわらかくていいね！]
きつねのしっぽ　[やわらかい響きがするからいいね！]
珈琲倶楽部　[明治維新以降の文明開化の音がする！]
伊太利亜文学館[大正デモクラシーのにおいがぷんぷんする！]
あきはばら[やわらかいねー。通常「秋葉原」と書かれるので、新鮮だねー。]
アキハバラ[外来語のような見た目。舶来品[almost 死語！]みたいに響くよね。]

つい近年まで伝統的な名称をやたらとカタカナに変更するという動きが日本中で見られたけど、ようやくひらがなやカタカナのよさが見直されてきているようですね！


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## Anatoli

shiremono said:


> Hi, Anatoli
> 
> Your view is correct.
> 
> "保護"　is of Chinese origin and should be written in Chinese character.
> Otherwise even Japanese people are very confused, too.


Thanks, Shiremono. 

It is confusing indeed, since Japanese doesn't have a word break (segmentation) kanji serves as word segmentation and it's easier to get the meaning. Initially, I thought it was some verb "hogosu"  or "hogoshiru" but it turned out to be "hogo" + suru. In my opinion, if a lot of words are written in hiragana, then at least, word boundaries (spaces) should be introduced. Homophones are another issue but the context should usually help, otherwise writers/speakers are not choosing words carefully 

I see that choice to write words in kanji or kana is often arbitrary, based on writer's preference or knowledge or the assumption about the readers' knowledge of characters. If kanji's are used more consistently, then at least you get used to them and become able to recognise them.

I always wonder why some words have multiple kanji versions too, for the same words:
"iu" can be written in at least 3 ways: 言う - 云う - いう
So can "kirei": 奇麗 - 綺麗 - きれい

Why some people choose to write in kanji and others in hiragana? If you have multiple versions, how do you choose, which one to use?

Split from here.


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## shiremono

Hi, again

There have been groups for _hiragan(a)_-ize or alphabetize Japanese orthography since _Meiji _period. Fortunately (for me), they haven't been enforced so far. 
There are books for small children written mostly with _hiragana_. Even with word boundaries, usable words should get limited. It's not only because the readers are very young but also because hiragana can not convey the full meanings of Chinese-origin words.

In the case of "保護する", the phonetic notation "ほご する" or "_hogo-suru_" is not expressive. Nobody can understand that  "ほ/_ho_"  means "保つ _tamotsu"_, "to preserve", and "ご/_go_" means "護る _mamoru_", "to protect". The solution could be to put it in simpler _yamato_ terms such as "まもる/_mamoru_", etc.    

There is another interesting case; Japanese Braille. It is based on phonetic notation with word boundaries and you cannot change a word in the transcription. I wonder how they comprehend such books full of Chinese characters. 

In my writing, I basically avoid Chinese characters if _hiragana_ do.  I write "わたしは, おもう, みる, かんがえる, いう", etc, instead of "私は, 思う, 見る, 考える, 言う", etc. These basic _yamato_ words don't have to be written with Chinese characters. Also some Chinese origins, most basic adverbs such as "とつぜん, ついに, もちろん, たいへん" and _some na_-adjectives "きれい", etc. But in fact there are so many _yamato_ words I would write with Chinese characters such as "山, 道, 花, 小鳥, 歩く, 帰る, 大きい, 弱い, 白い", and so on. Even so, I think I'm one among those who use less Chinese characters comparatively.  

Let me hear from others, too.


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## Anatoli

Thanks for your interesting explanation, Shiremono.  Though your choice between hiragana and kanji is still not clear to me.

I understand, if you _carefully choose words that would be easily understand from the sound only_ (if read out loud to someone else), then you could write whole texts phonetically, i.e. in hiragana or roomaji. In that case, you would only need word boundaries. If you prefer to write words made up of Chinese characters, which would hardly make any sense if pronounced out of context, then they should be written in Kanji.

In Korean, they try to get read of such words and find more understandable native equivalents, after Hangul has been reinforced in usage. Like your example "保護する" -> "護る". Is there such a trend in Japanese or is it more about coining new such words?


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## Aoyama

In simple terms, the use of ほご in hiragana for 保護 is highly unusual, if not an outright mistake.
The case of 奇麗 - 綺麗 - きれい is different, it is now seldom written in kanji because it is ... difficult to write(high number of strokes) and for some funny reasons I think writing it in kanji will look old-fashion ...


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## cheshire

(1)論文に常用外漢字を使ってはいけない。また、接続詞や不変化詞などの根本的な文法要素はひらがなを使うべきである。

例：もちろん、したがって、のような、などをそれぞれ「勿論」、「従って」、「の様な」とはできない。そういう、さらに、ようやく、もそれぞれ「そう言う」「更に」「漸く」とはできない。「できない」も「出来ない」とはできない。

とは言え、「ようするに」は「要するに」でもいいと思う。どちらでもいい場合も多いので、主観に負うことが多い。「という」の場合は、「Aさんが丸々と言 う」の場合は漢字を使い、「情報化社会というような時代」で・ ﾍひらがなを使うべきだ。つまり、前者は言うが動詞の場合。後者は本来の言うの意味からはなれて「文法化(grammaticalization)」した ものの場合。

念を押しておくと、これはあくまで「論文」や新聞、雑誌の場合です。小説とかは除く。

（２）専門用語は漢字を使うべきだ。これは漢字で書かれてあると本をブラウジングするときに絶大な効果を発揮するからだ。アルファベットで書かれてあるよ りも、漢字で書かれたもののほうが目的とする単語をすぐに見つけやすい。もし「温暖化」を探していて、「おんだんか」と書かれているとしよう。見つけにく いはずだ。

「ちきゅうのおんだんかがちきゅうをはめつにおいやる。」

これだと他の文法要素との境界が瞬時にわからない。必要なところはなるべく漢字で書くべきなのである。

（３）保護する、精進する、進歩する、など「漢字プラス機能語、あるいは文法化した要素」は、漢字は漢字で書くべきだ。体言部分と機能語部分の境界がはっきりするため。体言部分とは「保護、精進、進歩」などの部分だ。

甚大な、壮大な、壮麗な、詳細な、なども同じ理由で体言部分を漢字にすべきだ。ただ、「きれいな」はどちらでもよい。これはなぜだかわからない。「小さな」は「ちいさな」でもいいがどちらかといえば漢字にすべきだ  ろう。

（４）"私は, 思う, 見る, 考える, 言う、僕は"に関して、なるべく漢字にしたほうがよいだろう。大切なのは読む人にとって、瞬時に情報を拾えるかどうかなのだから。

わたしはねこがだいすきだ。
私はネコが大好きだ。
私は猫が大好きだ。

このうちどれが情報を認識するのが速いだろうか。２番目と３番目の文であろう。


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## shiremono

I’ve visited “カナモジカイ _Kanamoji-kai_ （a famous group for _katakan(a)_-izing Japanese writing system）” website at ; www1.ocn.ne.jp/~kanamozi/
The argument for_ katakan(a)_-izing or _hiragan(a)-izing_ is persuasive in its own way. At least I soon got the knack of reading the writings without Chinese characters. The space between word segments is indispensable.
　
I’ve also visited Wikipedia on Japanese and Korean languages and read a pocketbook about Korean language ; “朝鮮語のすすめ_ Chōsen-go no Susume_, ‘An Introduction to Korean Language’” by 渡辺吉鎔, _Watanabe, Kilyong_, 1981, published by 講談社 _Kōdan-sha_,_ Tokyo._
The long time tendency in Korea to eliminate Chinese characters or loan words (especially from Japan) seems to be stressed more on a kind of purification of the language (which is an expression of Korean nationalism) than on the simplification of it. They don’t teach Chinese characters in the elementary school, which brings an effect (or a vicious spiral to put it another way). There are similar educational effects in Japan. For example, the number of Chinese characters to be taught in public schools and used in public offices and mass media are restricted by the government as cheshire mentioned. Naturally the arguments are similar in both countries, only the reformers in Korea are in the mainstream. 

As for the usage of Chinese characters in the contemporary Japanese writing, I agree with cheshire in many points. I put it simply (or roughly, for there are exceptions such as "きれい") as following.

A Chinese character or a set of them is used as a container of a ‘concept’ to be transmitted. A Japanese sentence is composed of ‘concepts’ and ‘linking elements’. Let me say, Noun, Verb and Adjective represent the ‘concepts’. The others are ‘linking elements’. Nouns, verbs and adjectives which are rather formal such as “こと”, “する”, “ない”, etc, are regarded as ‘linking elements’ and written in _hiragana_. Many _i_-adjectives, too. It is obserbed that the Chinese characters are used as (or in) Noun, Verb and Adjective. Note that the function and usage of the loan words written in _katakana_ or alphabets (such as acronyms) are basically the same, and they are used little as _i_-adjective. [added: There are many ‘linking elements’ which are regarded as Chinese expression (漢語)　such as "目下 _mokka_", "悠然と _yuzen-to_", "早速 _sassoku_", etc. They are written with Chinese characters. Their use is on the gradual decline, for better or worse.] 
 
Personally, I use more _hiragana_ than the standard above. I don’t write “私” unless in an official report or something because you can’t tell if it is “_watashi”_ or “_watakushi” _in the Chinese character. Also, it might sound strange but I use more Chinese characters when I write vertically.


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## Captain Haddock

shiremono said:


> For example, the number of Chinese characters to be taught in public schools and used in public offices and mass media are restricted by the government as cheshire mentioned.



I've never heard of any restriction of kanji in the mass media. As far as I know, it's simply a recommendation and a common editorial standard for newspapers to either avoid kanji outside the Jinmeiyō, or else to include furigana readings. Magazines, books, and even manga use rare kanji fairly often.

As for official use, I believe government offices are supposed to avoid anything outside the Jinmeiyō for placenames and perhaps official publications.

It's funny, as a non-native learner of Japanese, I generally prefer to use kanji for common _wago_ words. It tends to be faster to write and take up less space than hiragana.


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## shiremono

Thanks, Captain Haddock

You are right. It says;
　この表は，法令，公用文書，新聞，雑誌，放送など，一般の社会生活において，現代の国語を書き表す場合の漢字使用の目安を示すものである。

　この表は，科学，技術，芸術その他の各種専門分野や個々人の表記にまで及ぼそうとするものではない。(skip the rest)
URL : http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo/http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo/frame.asp?tm=20070208142323

It's a recommendation to the public including the mass media. Not a restriction. Government's recommendation often means an order in Japan because they obey the recommendation without an order. It seems to be the case. Also the mass media did so on their behalf. 

Anyway my explanation was inaccurate. Sorry.


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## Flaminius

Moderator Note

Due to the site design of "the National Language Policy Information System," no link can directly point to the Web page that shiremono has quoted.  Here is the navigation path from the root directory.

1. Click 内閣告示・内閣訓令.
2. Click 常用漢字表.
3. Click 前書き.


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## cheshire

http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=2595686&postcount=3

同音異義語が多いというのも、日本語が漢字をひらがなに移行させるのが難しい理由なんでしょうね。


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## Musical Chairs

Sometimes kanji come with hiragana written next to them like in karaoke programs so that more people can read them.

How people decide which to write in, kanji or hiragana, depends on the context. Adults will normally write to adults in kanji, but if you're writing to a kid, you would probably use hiragana (like you said about assumption of the person's knowledge of characters). Really easy, common letters are written out in kanji no matter what the context (like numbers, the letter for "day", etc). But sometimes, even katakana is used for things that aren't normally written in katakana (I don't have Japanese letters in my computer so I can't show you) depending on the context.

I think the simplest way to decide which to use is to know the characters' meanings. The words aren't exactly the same (even though the letters are the same when written out in hiragana) because it depends on intonation and/or context.


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## SeekerOfPeace

Can anyone explain to me the rule to write kana or kanji?

For example:

私の役目は　*はやく*　お前を一人前に　音てるいとだが　おせっても　しかたあ

るまい

Now, 早く　is written in kana in the sentence above. But why? 

What is the rule to determine when you should write in kana or kanji?


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## Mr Punch

There are no rules as far as I know. 

Many people seem to use kana just to avoid using too many kanji and cluttering the place up sometimes!


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## palomnik

As a non-native speaker, I don't know how much my contribution is worth, but it's always struck me that whether or not words like はやく, かんがえる, いう are written in kanji or kana has to do with how much emphasis the word takes on in the overall meaning of the sentence.  The more important it is to what you're trying to emphasize, the more likely it will be written in kanji.

Like Captain Haddock, I prefer to use more kanji than less; to me, as a foreigner, I can grasp the sense of what I'm reading more quickly when there are a lot of kanji.


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## tkekte

I don't know how much my opinion matters in this (being a foreigner), but I love kanji. They are beautiful and mysterious.  Don't go the Korean way, keep the kanji. 

Plus, it's easier to get the meaning of a sentence when there's more kanji.


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## cheshire

It's a pity for them Koreans having tried to cut the Chinese character tradition, it's largely due to their national pride. Unlike Shiremono, I believe what they lose is more than what they get from it. With Chinese characters, it would be more quick to read, though it takes more time to write in hand. In these years of wordprocessors we rely less on handwriting, so using Kanji a lot is not an obstacle most of the time. But using too much kanji is a problem: you should choose when to use kanji. As I wrote earlier in this thread, it would be advisable to try to write all functional words in hiragana, loan words in katakana, content words in kanji and the rest.


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