# All Slavic Languages: Вежа and Столп



## Mac_Linguist

Etymology and original meaning of these words (all related).


_Вежа_, _Vež_, _Veža_, _Wieża_ — Common Slavic, "Tower"
_Стлъпъ_ (OCS), _Stolp_ (Slovenian) — "Tower"
_Костерь_ — ?
_Стрельница_ — ?


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## Irbis

"veža" means "lobby" (place after front door) in Slovenian.
And there is plateau in Kamnik Alps called Veža, but I don't know its etymology.


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## dudasd

Existance/nonexistance and meanings of these words in Serbian, with short on their possible roots:

Veža: Slovenian and Croatian Kajkavian: 1) porch in front of the kitchen; 2) kitchen. Panslavic word, but doesn't exist in Serbian and Bulgarian. Ancient Slavic *_vēz-ja. _Accrording to Czech _vĕž_, Old Czech _vĕžĕ_, its early meaning is "tower". Polish _wieža_ and Luzitz Sorbian _wjaža _mean "house". Comonly it's concerned to be related with Ie root *_ueğh- _(-vesti) – to carry, to drive – but the relation is not explained (and seems a bit illogical). 

Koстерь – probably from Greek _κάςτρος _– meaning castle, fortress. Exists in South Slavic toponims, like Kostur, Koštur (towns-fortresess in medieval Serbia and Bosnia), also probably Kastrat (a village in Serbia). Some toponimes and surnames also exist or existed in Albania (Ginocastri, Castriot), so it supports the theory of the Greek origins. On the other hand, toponims like Kostrilj, Kostrena (Dalmatian coast), Kostreša (mountain) open a posibillity for the Slavic root *_kostrь-_, meaning „sharp, spiky, rough“ (kept in many derived words that exist nowadays).More Slavic toponims, preferrably as far from Greek and Roman influence as possible, would probably help.

Стрельница – from Ancient Slavic strĕla (root: Ie *ster-), meaning arrow, with many derived words. Only one toponim in Serbia, as much as I can find (village Strelca or Streoca in South Serbia?), but I don't have information about other South Slavic areas. P. Skok says that "strelnica" is also a "metaphorical term from house building vocabulary", but doesn't give further explanations. Possible connections – arrow-like shape of a tower, or, more probably, bastion with shooting parapets. Now this reminds me to the word that I've heard to be used for holes on bastions – streljačnice.

Столп– Panslavic *_stъlpъ _– column, pillar; modern Serbian: stub. In the meaning of tower, only in rare Serbian toponims: Đurđevi stupovi – "Towers of St. George" (a medieval Serbian church). There is a number of the seemingly similar toponims in Serbia (like Stupari), but they are usually derived from the word "stupa, stupica" (hunting pit or a pit&press for flax).


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## Maroseika

Mac_Linguist said:


> Etymology and original meaning of these words (all related).
> 
> 
> 
> _Вежа_, _Vež_, _Veža_, _Wieża_ — Common Slavic, "Tower"
> _Стлъпъ_ (OCS), _Stolp_ (Slovenian) — "Tower"
> _Костерь_ — ?
> _Стрельница_ — ?


"Tower" for вежа is not Common Slavic, because this is later, figurative sense. Originally it meant повозка = дом-повозка (<везти), кибитка, then шатер/ In Russian the sense башня is reckoned to be loaned from Polish (Vasmer).

Костерь: this word is obsolete nowadays, but in modern Russian there is костра (sheave) < кость (bone).


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## dudasd

Now connection between "veža" and verb "to carry" makes sense. In Serbian there is also old word "voz" - a kind of sledges for transportation that can be used not only in winter. So "veža" would be a "transportable house", I guess. (In fact, you already said дом-повозка). And "Old Czech _vĕžĕ" _I foundprobably refers to Middle Ages, not earlier, and I agree it doesn't stand as a valid information about the earliest meaning.

But the relation between коstr- and коstь is still not quite clear; some etimologysts concern them related, and other claim that "kostr-" is related to "ostr-". At least, in Serbian there are really many words derived from "kostr-" with the clear meaning, like kostriš (kind of a spiky grass), or verb "kostrešiti se" (to become spiky, like an angry porcupine), "kostret" (harsh cloth made of goat's hair) etc. On the other hand, name of the town Kostur is by its form the same word as "kostur" (skeleton), but evidently comes from quite a different root. Are there any toponyms in Russia starting with Kostr-? I can think only about Kostroma at the moment, but I don't know how it got its name.


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## Q-cumber

According to the Dahl's dictionary: 



> *ВЕЖА* вежа жен., стар. намет, шатер, палатка; кочевой шалаш, юрта, кибитка;
> | башня, батура, каланча; это значение осталось в западных губерниях.





> *КОСТЕРЬ*
> жен.
> Here's the link



We still occasinally use the word "костерить" (to scold)

*Стрельница* is a dated word, which means бойница (loophole, narrow opening in a (defence) wall, through which weapons may be fired).


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## Maroseika

dudasd said:


> But the relation between коstr- and коstь is still not quite clear; some etimologysts concern them related, and other claim that "kostr-" is related to "ostr-".


Do you have a link?



> At least, in Serbian there are really many words derived from "kostr-" with the clear meaning, like kostriš (kind of a spiky grass), or verb "kostrešiti se" (to become spiky, like an angry porcupine), "kostret" (harsh cloth made of goat's hair) etc.


Most likely костерь/костра has nothing to do with острый, meaning in fact "lignificated bark".
However, it could be contaminated with another group of words, really referring to "sharp".

On the other hand, name of the town Kostur is by its form the same word as "kostur" (skeleton), but evidently comes from quite a different root. Are there any toponyms in Russia starting with Kostr-? I can think only about Kostroma at the moment, but I don't know how it got its name.[/quote]
First of all, there is an old Russina word "кострома" - dead body of one died in unnatural way and dangerous for the alives.
Secondly, there was Кострома - East Slavic goddes of fertility. Even 150 years ago there was tradition on some holiday or before the harvest time to bury (drown) Кострома represented by the straw scarecrow.
However all they derivate from костра - tree bark.

By the way, there is one more similar word in Russian - кострец - upper part of leg of beef


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## Maroseika

Q-cumber said:


> We still occasinally use the word "костерить" (to scold)


This wrod is still unclear.
Though it's well known it derived from костить, but its connection with кость is not proved yet.
Another versions (equally hypothetical) - its connection with words пакость and казать, but not *castigare.*


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## dudasd

Maroseika said:


> Do you have a link?
> ---
> However, it could be contaminated with another group of words, really referring to "sharp".


 
I don't have any links, unfortunately; I am still using old-fashioned printed dictionaries mostly (somehow they seem more "trustworthy"  ), and I admit am too lazy to type names (it's easier to say "some... and some"). But Croatian etymologist Petar Skok supposed exactly what you said about contamination and overlapping of meanings among ostr-, kostr- and kost-. 


Thanks for the meaning of Kostroma (my Russian dictionaries don't give etymology). But more and more I suspect that kost- originally meant "hard part of the body/plant" - we have the same root, for example, in words "kesten/kostan/koštan" (chestnut), hard and unbreakable wallnut is "koštunac", kernel of the fruit is "koštica" etc. So it could have diverged to different forms and meanings (like your excellent example with bark). It could explain "fortress" as a strong, unbreakable place. But again, root kostr- is widespreaded amongst South Slavs, and always with essential meaning "spiky", "prickly", and I can't find other explanation but the overlapping of forms; there is no connection with kost-. Except... hmmm, we have both forms "os, ost" and "kost" - the first one is spike of wheat, the second is fishbone or a thin spiky bone. Could that be the missing link between "kost-" and "ostr-"? And thus the link between "hard" and "spiky"?


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## Oletta

Mac_Linguist said:


> Etymology and original meaning of these words (all related).
> 
> 
> _Вежа_, _Vež_, _Veža_, _Wieża_ — Common Slavic, "Tower"



wieża, (related: wieżyca, wieżyczka), the proto-word "weża" meant "a tent", and because "a tent" is pointed, its name was fransformed to mean "a spire" a tower" in the Western Slavic territories (Polish, Czech and Lusatian) and then it spread further to the Ruthenian territories.

In Polish the word "wieża" meaning "a tent" makes sense as "a tent" was put up and carried = "wieziony", thus "wieża".


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