# Transcription of German (town) names



## übermönch

Hello! Bigger German towns have other names in Russian. Hamburg gets Gamburg, Mannheim gets Manngeym etc. Are there any rules? Does H allways become G? What about CH? Do  the rules imply even for villages, or only to cities? Why does it happen? I need to transcribe Michelstadt and Heppenheim. Would it be Мигельштад & Геппенгейм?


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## papillon

Hmm,
IMHO this sounds all right. I think "ch" is trancsribed as "X". Also I've seen the dt transcribed as дт, as in Кронштадт (although I have seen both spellings). So Michelstadt would be Михельштадт or Михельштад.
 But wait for some more informed opinions..


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## Anatoli

Yes, most German words with H (if it's pronounced) are transcribed with Г in Russian and CH with Х, EI is trancribed as ЭЙ or ЕЙ (after consonants). Having said this, you can also find some *newer* ways of transliterating H with Х, EI - АЙ. This is especially true with personal names. Hans wouldn't be too happy to be called Ганс (Gans) but that's traditional method. Ханс is also possible, especially these days. 

CH is usually transliterated with Х, even if it's pronounced K - Chemnitz - Хемниц

Hans-Christian Andersen can be written in 2 methods:
*Г*анс-*Х*ристиан Андерсен (traditional, most commonly known)
*Х*анс-*К*ристиан Андерсен (new method)

The well-known German city names and people's names have to be written in tradition way, it would be a mistake to write them in a new method:

*Г*енрих *Гей*не, *Г*амбург, *Г*анновер, Р*ей*н,  *Г*итлер (sorry for mentioning him but you probably want to know how to write and pronounce Hitler in Russian).

--



> Would it be Мигельштад & Геппенгейм?


Михельштадт is correct

Геппенгейм is correct but Хеппенхайм is also possible (the new method).


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## Insider

I'm not sure about more name of cities which after transliteration would have some changes, but I'm quite sure about some cities which sounds and are written in German in one way and in Russian they are written (translitered) and sounds in completely different way. 

For instance,

Köln - Кельн
München - Мюнхен


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## Anatoli

Insider said:
			
		

> I'm not sure about more name of cities which after transliteration would have some changes, but I'm quite sure about some cities which sounds and are written in German in one way and in Russian they are written (translitered) and sounds in completely different way.
> 
> For instance,
> 
> Köln - Кельн
> München - Мюнхен


 What's so *completely* different? Russian doesn't have ö and ü but ё and ю are approximations. "-хен" is pronounced almost exactly as German "-chen" in Russian (not Ukrainian!). Do you think Cologne and Munich are closer to German in pronunciation?

It's Кёльн, by the way.


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## Etcetera

Of course, Russian and German words would sound differently, but I, too, don't understand why they should sound _completely_ different. It seems to me that Köln and Кёльн sound rather close...


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## Insider

Anatoli said:
			
		

> What's so *completely* different? Russian doesn't have ö and ü but ё and ю are approximations. "-хен" is pronounced almost exactly as German "-chen" in Russian (not Ukrainian!). Do you think Cologne and Munich are closer to German in pronunciation?
> 
> It's Кёльн, by the way.


 

Hello Anatoli,

I agree that the word "completely" didn't match here quite good. OK, it's my mistake. 

While speaking about Köln, I know how to spell it correctly in Russian, I just didn't find the exact letter of my keybord. And while speaking about correct pronunciation, I also agree that Russian letter and sound of ё is _almost_ approximation with German sound and letter ö. 

If you speak about München that depens on the districts of Germany, because in some of them you can here [мюнхен], but also in some of others you can easily hear [мюншен]. Do you see my point? 

I don't see for what you showed the examples of Cologne and Munich. And how it is related to topic about Russian?

I want to apologize if I said something unpleasant about Russian. 

Insider


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## Insider

Etcetera,

Please, read the post above.

Insider


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## Etcetera

Insider said:
			
		

> If you speak about München that depens on the districts of Germany, because in some of them you can here [мюнхен], but also in some of others you can easily hear [мюншен]. Do you see my point?


 It's well-known that pronunciation can be very different in differents parts of Germany. How do natives of München pronounce the name of their city?


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## Insider

Etcetera said:
			
		

> It's well-known pronunciation can be very different in differents parts of Germany. How do natives of München pronounce the name of their city?


 
First, infortunately, I didn't get the meaning of your first sentence. Perhaps, you've made some mistakes of my English is really poor...  Second, honestly speaking, I don't know how do natives of München pronounce the name of the city.


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## Etcetera

Indeed, I've omitted 'that' in my sentence. Sorry for the confusion.
I mean that people speak with different accents in different parts of Germany, and it's a well-known fact. 
Do I make myself clear enough this time?


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## übermönch

Thanks Anatoli? Michelstadt is clear, as to Heppenheim, does Geppengeym sound more natural to you?


			
				Etcetera said:
			
		

> It's well-known that pronunciation can be very different in differents parts of Germany. How do natives of München pronounce the name of their city?


 Bavarians cannot pronounce the ch after constants and the e after g, thus München is either pronounced as _Mingan_ or  _Minichen_ in Bavarian German. Mün_sch_en is said right where I live, in Frankonia (Hesse, Lorraine, Palatinate, NW Bavaria).


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## Insider

Oh, I had to see your overlooking.

Well, I hope that some German-native would visit this thread and would announce how to pronounce München correctly. 

By the way, this time I understood absolutely everything.


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## übermönch

Insider said:
			
		

> Oh, I had to see your overlooking.
> 
> Well, I hope that some German-native would visit this thread and would announce how to pronounce München correctly.
> 
> By the way, this time I understood absolutely everything.


München is pronounced (more or less) exactly as Мюнхен in Standard/High German!


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## Etcetera

übermönch said:
			
		

> Thanks Anatoli? Michelstadt is clear, as to Heppenheim, does Geppengeym sound more natural to you?


To me, Heppenheim sounds more natural than Geppengeym. 
Maybe because I used to study German, and I still remember the rules of reading quite well. 
By the way, thw town of Hildesheim may be called Хильдесхайм (that's how I prefer to call it), Гильдесгейм, Гильдесгайм, Хильдесхейм... I've tried to google all those variants. Хильдесхайм and Гильдесгейм deem to be most popular. 


> Bavarians cannot pronounce the ch after constants and the e after g, thus München is either pronounced as _Mingan_ or  _Minichen_ in Bavarian German. Mün_sch_en is said right where I live, in Frankonia (Hesse, Lorraine, Palatinate, NW Bavaria).


Thank you for the information! _Mingan_ sounds surprisingly unusual... Like something from Chinese, to me.


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## Thomas F. O'Gara

That German "ei" transliterates as ей in German comes from the fact that the first words from German into Russian were absorbed from the Hanseatic traders from North Germany, where "ei" was prononuced that way, at least back then.


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## Anatoli

Wow, lots of posts!

Insider, we base transliteration on standard, not dialect transliteration. 

Übermönch explained that it's close enough to German. Germans would pronounce their names exactly with German pronounciation when speaking Russian and get understood!

The letters Ё and ё are typed by shift + 7, 6 on my keyboard, it could be also shift + ~. If you need to type "ё" for clarity.



> As to Heppenheim, does Geppengeym sound more natural to you?


Übermönch, it's more natural for me when close to original, as I too studied and I know German. For well-known names, it is better to stick to the convention. Some Russians start saying Хамбург and Ляйпцихь after travelling to Germany to show off but correct pronunciation is Гамбург and Лейпциг. But standards do change, so it might become standard in the future.


The letter Г is pronounced as G only in standard Russian. In Ukraine, Belarus and many people southern regions of Russia pronounce it as a voiced English/German H, that's why the letter Г is used, because it sounded as Ukrainian Г to Russians. But pronouncing the foreign names where it is with Ukrainian Г is also incorrect in standard Russian , so that's why the new method is used for not so well-known names - letter Х,  not Г.


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## Anatoli

Germans do know that it is Москва (Moskv*a*), not Moskau in Russian but they still call it Moskau. So is Moscow, Moscou, etc. Same story with Гамбург. It's the tradition.


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## cyanista

Funnily enough, the Russian name for *Köln* (*Кёльн*) is much closer to the original than the English *Cologne* or the Spanish *Colonia*.


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## Jana337

cyanista said:
			
		

> Funnily enough, the Russian name for *Köln* (*Кёльн*) is much closer to the original than the English *Cologne* or the Spanish *Colonia*.


Do you pronounce it Kjoln or Koln?

Jana


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## cyanista

> Do you pronounce it Kjoln or Koln?


Who? Me? In what language? 

Koln would be spelt* "Кольн"*. If you keep in mind that "kj" is a palatalized "k" then yes, *Кёльн *is pronunced Kjoln.


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## Thomas F. O'Gara

The whole business of where foreign place names come from in other languages is a fascinating but somewhat confusing subject.  The Russian name for "Paris" - Париж - comes from Italian, for some reason I never understood, and the word for "French" - французкий - from the Dutch.
 
It is standard practice to transliterate German ö as ё, and not just in place names:  Goethe - Гёте.


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## cyanista

Thomas F. O'Gara said:
			
		

> It is standard practice to transliterate German ö as ё, and not just in place names:  Goethe - Гёте.



You're quite right - and it makes perfect sense, since ё  in combination with a consonant produces a sound very similar to the German one. You can observe the same with ü - ю.


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## übermönch

cyanista said:
			
		

> Funnily enough, the Russian name for *Köln* (*Кёльн*) is much closer to the original than the English *Cologne* or the Spanish *Colonia*.


Well the original original name was something like Colonia Claudia ara Aggrepinensium.


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## martinemussies

*Когда я пошел к России от Кёльн, я заметил что некоторые русские (уроженца) написал имя отдела Кёльн (как вы) и некоторые написали их Кёлн- без мягкого знака.....??
*


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## Jana337

martinemussies said:
			
		

> *Когда я пошел к России от Кёльн, я заметил что некоторые русские (уроженца) написал имя отдела Кёльн (как вы) и некоторые написали их Кёлн- без мягкого знака.....??
> *


Did you have a gender change? 

Jana


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## martinemussies

aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, you are right!  I'm always confused in past time


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## Anatoli

Marinemussies, the correct Russian spelling is "Кёльн" with "the soft sign". A native speaker wouldn't write it without (could be a typo).


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