# Pronunciation: 我也想



## afx

你好,

I was told that when in mandarin two or more third tones comes together, they all but the last of them changes into second tone. My question is whether this happens only when they form one world or if this happens also e.g in:

我也想, so that it is read wo2 ye2 xiang3?

Thanks a lot answer.


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## sisuer

你好 afx,
Yours is a difficult question!

In my experience, if two third-tones come together, whether they form a word or not, the first third-tone always changes into a second-tone. For example, in 你可怜的父亲, 你 is read ni2. 

So, with two third-tones, it's always 2-3;
with three third-tones, it can be either 2-2-3 (我也想)or 3-2-3 (你可以);
with four third-tones, it can be either 3-2-2-3 (你可以走)or 2-3-2-3 (我也想走) (Can't think of a 2-2-2-3 example...)


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## maghanish2

This has always been a question for me too.  So sisuer, how do you know when to pronounce it 2-2-3 (我也想） and 3-2-3 (你可以）.  Thanks!


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## kong.zhong

I can't tell the difference between the second third tone. But I think my speaking Chinese is good.


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## SuperXW

maghanish2 said:


> This has always been a question for me too. So sisuer, how do you know when to pronounce it 2-2-3 (我也想） and 3-2-3 (你可以）. Thanks!


Hi! It's not that strict in practice. The best way for 我也想 is probably 223, and for 你可以 is 323, but they all come out naturally. It's also common for people to say 我也想 in 323, and 你可以 in 223, depending on whether you want to stress the subject or not.


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## sisuer

maghanish2 said:


> This has always been a question for me too. So sisuer, how do you know when to pronounce it 2-2-3 (我也想） and 3-2-3 (你可以）. Thanks!



I think 2-2-3 is preferred when the first and second third-tones are closer, while 3-2-3 is preferred when the second and third third-tones are closer together.

In 你可以, its obvious that 可 goes together with 以 rather than 你. So it's 3-2-3. When 可以 is placed before 走, it becomes 2-2-3.
But with 我也想, it's hard to say whether 也 goes with 我 or 想. I prefer 2-2-3 for it but I guess 3-2-3 is ok.

The above 'rule' comes solely from my own experience. I don't know if it applies in all contexts. We should wait and see.


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## FRee^ARouND

Hey guys! You all wrong. The right tones are 3-3-3. However, for a straight 3-3 is sounded, 2-2-3 3-2-3 are alternative tones in practice.


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## xiaolijie

SuperXW said:


> maghanish2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This has always been a question for me too.  So sisuer, how do you know when to pronounce it 2-2-3 (我也想） and 3-2-3  (你可以）. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! It's not that strict in practice. The best way for 我也想 is probably  223, and for 你可以 is 323, but they all come out naturally. It's also  common for people to say 我也想 in 323, and 你可以 in 223, depending on  whether you want to stress the subject or not.
Click to expand...

Since there have been conflicting views on how clusters of 3rd-tone syllables are supposed to be pronounced, I'd like to try in a slightly different way by first going backwards, to the pronunciation of just a 2-word phrase such as 你好: 

I'm pretty sure that most would agree with me that 你好 is normally pronounced as "ni2hao3". But as the number of syllables increase, such as 我也想, we have multiple variations in how the phrase is pronounced, and this is how I think it works: a group of 3rd tones together makes it difficult to say, _especially in fast or normal speaking speed_. By replacing all 3rd tones, _except the last one in the group_, with 2nd tones, it becomes easier to say the group at fast or normal speaking speed. This explains why we've got "ni2hao3" or "wo2ye2xiang3". 

*But*, if you _deliberately say_ 你好 or 我也想 _very slowly_, you'd end up with "ni3//hao3" or "wo3//ye3//xiang3" (the sign // represents a slight pause between the syllables). So, the variations in saying 我也想 are _basically due to how we cut up that phrase, how the syllables are grouped together:_
1. 我也想 fast, with no pause = 223
2. 我//也想 with a pause between 我 and 也想 = 3//23
3. 我也//想 with a pause between 我也 and 想 = 23//3 
(Note that possibility no.3 is slightly unlikely, because we tend to pause in speech at a more natural, logical juncture than between 也 and 想.)

If you've followed me so far, then you'll be able to see how the following variations in a longer 3rd-tone cluster come about, based on the explanation above: *你想你可以几点起床？*
4. 你想//你可以//几点//起床？= 23//223//23//32
5. 你想//你可以几点//起床？= 23//22223//32
6. 你想你可以//几点//起床？= 22223//23//32
7. 你想你可以//几点起床？= 22223//2232


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## esparkpse30

This has always been a question for me too, too. Me three? But I kind of forgot about it. I think I  remember two of my native speaker friends having a similar discussion  about a 3-3-3 sequence (我——), and the faster they said it, the more  likely it came out as 2-2-3. I think that would fit xiaolijie's model.  

I'm so glad someone asked this question; thanks afx.


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## CHNI

For this problem, I think it's all because the third tone is constitued by a short forth ton (\) and a short second tone (/), that is why it is writen as "˅". This means when we pronunce a third tone word, we have to pronunce these two tones very quickly to make out the third tone. That can explain why when we speak fast, we lost one part of the third tone and it sounds like the second tone. So It dose not really matter which one you have to pronunce as a 2nd tone, which one is the 3rd, it will come naturally with time when you can speak faster.


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## afx

Thank you all for your comments.

If I put it together, can I say, that it is not an error to use two third tones together although it is not common? Is that correct?


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## xiaolijie

Yes, that is correct, if you say them very slowly (and of course, unnaturally).


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## indigoduck

afx said:


> 你好,
> 
> I was told that when in mandarin two or more third tones comes together, they all but the last of them changes into second tone. My question is whether this happens only when they form one world or if this happens also e.g in:
> 
> 我也想, so that it is read wo2 ye2 xiang3?
> 
> Thanks a lot answer.



A very good question with many different answers.  In theory, you'll find many of those answers in this post.  In practice, you'll encounter a wide varieties.  This is because China is full of dialects and putonghua was forced upon as the standard.  As a result, putonghua is constantly clobbered by all regions of China.

Take another language that is a common language such as English for example and you'll know what i mean.  No matter who speaks it, there will be a different flavour because we all take our linguistic backgrounds and try to make sense of it.

Try your best and your best to be understood, and you'll do just fine.


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