# The Greek letter π in .... Chinese?



## Konstantinos

I've started learning Chinese Mandarin for business reasons... From the begin I have been wondering, how much is the influence of Greek language to Chinese... Or whether or not there is any kinda influence to this completely remote and different language.

Finally, I noticed that sometimes there is the Greek letter π as symbol in simplified Chinese and in most cases the translation to Greek is a word starting with π. Some examples:

πυρετός - πυρεξία : 发烧
πάρκο: 公园
παίζω: 玩儿

Also these words have pi in English as well: pyrexia, park, play.

So, probably these are coincidences? Or the Greek influence to all human languages  is much stronger than we can imagine? Or maybe in the "first language" or in the "pro-language" of humans the sense of pi or π had strong importance that we see today in all languages?


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## διαφορετικός

I don't know much about Chinese.



Konstantinos said:


> Also these words have pi in English as well: pyrexia, park, play.


How can I discover the π in these words?


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## Konstantinos

διαφορετικός said:


> I don't know much about Chinese.
> 
> 
> How can I discover the π in these words?



Greek π = Latin p


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## διαφορετικός

Konstantinos said:


> Greek π = Latin p


Yes, of course, the "p" is said to have developed from the "π". It is also used in German, for example, and in many other languages.

But Chinese language has a different history, which I don't know well.


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## διαφορετικός

... but I can add that in Mandarin it's rare to find letters which represent sounds (as in the Greek and the Latin alphabet), so I find it rather unlikely to find a relation between Greek and Chinese letters.


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## Konstantinos

It looks like there is closer connection between Greek and Chinese. I don't know if it is usual Greek influence like in Indo-European languages or if it comes from the common ancestor that all human languages have.

The simplified Chinese characters invented in 1940-1950, so it may be considered a modern and indirect western - Greek influence to Chinese, but the combination παίζω = 玩 is also in traditional Chinese.

From a short research I did, it looks like the Greek influence in East didn't get north-east of Himalaya and Karakoram. So if there is this influence, it should be in a different aspect.

PS: in my free time I will use some cloud GPUs and TPUs to analyze this with AI and computer vision. It looks like relatively easy. I will find out which Chinese characters have the symbol π (both in simplified and traditional). I feel that there are 10-15 characters - words having this symbol... If the translation of 5-6 of them in Greek starts with π, it will be considered clear influence..


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## διαφορετικός

Here a Chinese sign (glyph) which looks like π is explained:
元 - Wiktionary
Yes, it has something to do with phonetics, but not with "single" sounds as in European languages.

PS: it is used in 玩 - Wiktionary


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## Flaminius

Except for sporadic loan words that Europeans have brought into China since the time of, for example Matteo Ricci, there is no influence from Greek to Chinese, vece versa.  Relatedness between languages need be sought in their earliest attested forms.  Let's say we compare Homeric Greek or Greek-like languages recorded in Linear B, Luwian cuneiform, and Phoenician alphabet with Chinese recorded in Bone Oracles.  I refrain from discussing Chinese grammar in the Greek forum, but I can assure you that Greek and Chinese in their 10-Century-BCE forms are as similar as apples and bubbles, i.e., no relations at all.


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## Phoenix rises

Konstantinos said:


> I've started learning Chinese Mandarin for business reasons... From the begin I have been wondering, how much is the influence of Greek language to Chinese... Or whether or not there is any kinda influence to this completely remote and different language.
> 
> Finally, I noticed that sometimes there is the Greek letter π as symbol in simplified Chinese and in most cases the translation to Greek is a word starting with π. Some examples:
> 
> πυρετός - πυρεξία : 发烧
> πάρκο: 公园
> παίζω: 玩儿
> 
> Also these words have pi in English as well: pyrexia, park, play.
> 
> So, probably these are coincidences? Or the Greek influence to all human languages  is much stronger than we can imagine? Or maybe in the "first language" or in the "pro-language" of humans the sense of pi or π had strong importance that we see today in all languages?


I'm sorry but as a Greek speaking Chinese I see no π in the pronunciation of these Chinese words. Fashao, gongyuan, wanr. No π


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## Phoenix rises

διαφορετικός said:


> Here a Chinese sign (glyph) which looks like π is explained:
> 元 - Wiktionary
> Yes, it has something to do with phonetics, but not with "single" sounds as in European languages.
> 
> PS: it is used in 玩 - Wiktionary


No this has nothing to do with π, Chinese evolved from drawings on bones to put it simply, this radical has many meanings and it depends on its position to the pictogram.


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## Phoenix rises

Konstantinos said:


> I've started learning Chinese Mandarin for business reasons... From the begin I have been wondering, how much is the influence of Greek language to Chinese... Or whether or not there is any kinda influence to this completely remote and different language.
> 
> Finally, I noticed that sometimes there is the Greek letter π as symbol in simplified Chinese and in most cases the translation to Greek is a word starting with π. Some examples:
> 
> πυρετός - πυρεξία : 发烧
> πάρκο: 公园
> παίζω: 玩儿
> 
> Also these words have pi in English as well: pyrexia, park, play.
> 
> So, probably these are coincidences? Or the Greek influence to all human languages  is much stronger than we can imagine? Or maybe in the "first language" or in the "pro-language" of humans the sense of pi or π had strong importance that we see today in all languages?


Also 兀 and 元 are two different radicals with completely different meanings. And these are just parts of other pictograms so the whole puzzle is something totally different. 发烧 the 兀 is just a small piece of the 烧 and together they mean fever not just this single pictogram. 烧 alone means cook, burn etc. 公园 again together mean park, the exact translation is public garden therefore park, 园is garden


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