# Occitan: pas



## panjabigator

> Parlo pas l'occitan


Is the word "pas" obligatory for negation in Occitan?  In Catalan, "pas" is used as an emphatic, I.E. "no parlo pas català" for "I don't speak any Catalan."

Thanks ahead


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## Joannes

Yes, it's obligatory. It's even more important than in French. In Occitan, *pas* carries the negation on its own whereas in (written) French there's also *ne* preceding the verb. Where you would have a negation *ne ... rien* 'nothing' or *ne ... jamais* 'never' in French (so without *pas*), you would have *pas res* or *pas jamai* in Occitan.

(You know where this negation comes from, right? This was a previous discussion about it, and it was also mentioned in your own thread, here. )


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## Joannes

(Sorry to get this thread back up again for nothing, but I think it's *parli pas l'occitan*, by the way. If you wanted it to mean 'I don't speak Occitan', that is. -- http://www.verbix.com/cache/webverbix/8/parlar.shtml)


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## panjabigator

Thanks very much Joannes!  If I can make it up to France, I would like to know more Occitan, but I'm sure my terrible Catalan can suffice if need be.  Thanks for answering me question.


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## CapnPrep

Hello, Joannes is correct about *pas*, but here are some unnecessary details:

"On peut trouver en littérature une négation vieillie qui se construit en mettant *non* [nou] devant le verbe. Cette négation demeure cependant dans quelques expressions : ex. *Non sai* [nou saï], je ne sais pas." (_L'occitan tout de suite !_ p. 16)

"Lo foissenc pòt emplegar _ges_ e _cap_ allòc de _pas_. Ex. : _Non pòdi ges dire_ o_ pòdi ges dire._ | _Non vòli cap parlar._" (Alibèrt, 3.XI)


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## ryba

Òc, Panja, es necessari, justament coma dins lo dialecte septentrional del catalan (~Catalunya Nord):

Catalan septentrional:
A: Parles occità?
B: No, parli pas occità.

Occitan:
A: Parlas occitan?
B: Non, parli pas occitan.

Coma pòts veire, fòra de qualques expressions (coma escriguèt CapnPrep mai amont), en occitan general la paraula _non_ es pas que (= 'es solament') un advèrbi negatiu (es a dire, lo contrari d'_òc_) e dins la frasa-eissemple es necessària la virgula (,).

S'emplegava la negacion _non_ en occitan classic, avuèi es abituala en qualques parlars gascons (sabi pas se en totes), per eissemple en aranés (legís la primièra frasa d'aqueste article). Al programa (catalan) _Caçadors de Paraules - L'aranès (part 3)_ [YouTube] i a una anciana que ditz "  _Eths joens non parlan patoès._" e es de Melles, França.

Adissiatz!


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## ryba

Qualques correccions:





ryba said:


> Òc, Panja, es necessari, justament coma dins lo dial*è*cte septentrional del catalan (~Catalonha Nòrd):
> 
> Catalan septentrional:
> A: Parles occità?
> B: No, parli pas occità.
> 
> Occitan:
> A: Parlas occitan?
> B: Non, parli pas occitan.
> 
> Coma pò*de*s veire, fòra de qualques expressions (coma escriguèt CapnPrep mai amont), en occitan general la paraula _non_ es pas que (= 'es solament') un advèrbi negatiu (es a dire, lo contrari d'_òc_) e dins la frasa-e*x*emple es necessària la virgula (,).
> 
> S'emplegava la negacion _non_ en occitan classic, avuèi es abituala en qualques parlars gascons (sabi pas s*'*en totes), per e*x*emple en aranés (legís la primièra frasa d'aqueste article). Al programa (catalan) _Caçadors de Paraules - L'aranès (part 3)_ [YouTube] i a una anciana que ditz «  _E_(_th_)_s joen*i* non parlan patoès._» e es de Melles, França.
> 
> Adissiatz!



**eissemple* (exemple), **dis* (ditz) ->

Aquelas decas d'ortografia son fruit del trabalh destructiu de l’Arve Cassinhac, autor del siti panoccitan.org e del diccionari oc-fr e fr-oc que s'i tròba.

 Estudiants d’occitan! Usetz pas jamai aquel diccionari o, al mens, l’utilizetz pas abans d'aver legit aquò (es una analisi critica del siti panoccitan.org faita per l’occitanista Sèrgi Granièr).

Eng: Had I not checked the spelling of those words in the panoccitan.org dictionary before posting I wouldn't have made those mistakes (I managed to _correct *dis_ soon after posting). Beware of that dictionary. It's author unlawfully used as a base a digital edition of Loís Alibèrt's posthumous _Dictionnaire occitan-français d'après les parlers languedociens_ from 1966 to create his own version of "Occitan", a version full of linguistic nonsense his mind created, a comedy of errors made on purpose combined with some Alibèrt's untouched work to make the impression of a serious dictionary.


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## Alabrena

ryba said:


> Beware of that dictionary. It's author unlawfully used as a base a digital edition of Loís Alibèrt's posthumous _Dictionnaire occitan-français d'après les parlers languedociens_ from 1966 to create his own version of "Occitan", a version full of linguistic nonsense his mind created, a comedy of errors made on purpose combined with some Alibèrt's untouched work to make the impression of a serious dictionary.


 
What a disgusting post, I have never seen that before.


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## ryba

Curiosament, i a qualques expressions en occitan general ont s'utiliza la negacion amb _non_ (1), per exemple _que non sai_:

_Son rics que non sai._ [FONT] (~ They are so rich! / They are very/damn rich.)

(1) EDIT: CapnPrep ja o mencionèt, o aviái doblidat. 

Seriá interessant de parar un còp d'uèlh sul fial Pas del fòrum Catalan, s'i parla un pauc de la negacion en occitan.

Amistats.


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