# Norwegian: Nattverd



## majlo

Hi,
My friend from Norway is having his Holy Communion (Eucharist) this year, and I came up with an idea for quite a specific gift on that occassion, which will be a trophy with an inscription on it. Naturally, I'd like the inscription to be grammatical and natural, so I'd be really grateful if you could help me out with this passage:

*"1st place for Daniel Lerø on the occassion of receiving his First Communion. From Jan & Ewa"*

Thank you in advance for any help,
majlo


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## sdr083

Hmm...  Your friend is Catholic?  First communion is not a celebration I'm very familiar with, but I think you say "første nattverd" in Norwegian.

The translation would go something like this:
"Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning hans første nattverd" or
"Fyrsteplass til Daniel Lerø i høve den fyrste nattverda hans" 
depending on which part of the country he's from.  
I'd wait for more opinions though, because it doesn't sound quite right. The first one has an archaic ring to it and the second one is a bit awkward... Perhaps it's just that "første nattverd" doesn't sound like a "title" to me the same way of "First Communion" does.


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## majlo

sdr083 said:


> Hmm...  Your friend is Catholic?


Yes, more specifically, it would be a Lutheran holiday -- as for the sacrement. As far as I know, Lutheranism is dominant in Norway. By the way, my friend is from western part of the country. I think that's the term, though I'm not sure (the corresponding English term is "Holy Communion" which appears to be something different than First Communion/første nattverd. If it may be useful, he's 14 years of age.

As for the rest of the text, you don't have to take it so literally if what I wrote isn't typical of what is written on trophies that kids in Norway get for winning sport events. 

EDIT: It seems like I caused a bit of confusion here. I did a little research, and the sacrament is "Konfirmasjon". Would anyone with some contextual knowledge could confirm whether a 14-year old can have a "Konfirmasjon" in Norway?


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## missTK

Yes, konfirmasjon is almost certainly right if the kid is 14.

"Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning hans konfirmasjon", which is rather formal (but that is common for confirmations), or you could use
"Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning konfirmasjonen hans" which is more casual.

If you want to go in the direction of sports award expressions, you could have it start with

"Førsteplass til_deles_..." which is more like "First place is awarded to..." and is what I would expect to see on a sports award certificate, for example. I actually like that one better, so I would probably go with

"Førsteplass tildeles Daniel Lerø i anledning hans konfirmasjon".


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## ahaz

I'm not a catholic, however I'm quite sure that the word "Kommunion" with a capital K is used in Norwegian.
I believe that this would be suitable: "Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning hans første Kommunion", optionally "første Hellige Kommunion" (holy communion).


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## majlo

missTK said:


> "Førsteplass tildeles Daniel Lerø i anledning hans konfirmasjon".



Is it ok if "konfirmasjon" isn't spelt with a capital letter in the beginning?
Also, is "Førsteplass" more natural in Norwegian than, for example, "1 Plass"?
I like this example and your explanation.  Thank you.


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## ahaz

The word "konfirmasjon" should never be spelt with a capital k. That's wrong (except beginning of period, of course).

But I'd stick to "Kommunion".


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## majlo

ahaz said:


> The word "konfirmasjon" should never be spelt with a capital k. That's wrong (except beginning of period, of course).


Thank you. 


ahaz said:


> But I'd stick to "Kommunion".


Why would you stick to "Kommunion"?


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## ahaz

I've checked now on the website of the catholic church of Norway, katolsk.no. It seems that they use the term "førstekommunion".


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## majlo

ahaz said:


> I've checked now on the website of the catholic church of Norway, katolsk.no. It seems that they use the term "førstekommunion".


Well, that is right, but I mentioned before it would be a Lutheran rite. 

Also, how to say "From Jan & Ewa" in Norwegian?


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## jonquiliser

I'm no expert here but: a Lutheran is *not* a Catholic. They're both Christians but of different Christian traditions - Lutheran and Catholic respectively.

At least in Swedish the first communion for Lutherans is called _konfirmation_, as in Norwegian (the pronounciation is also similar). The central part of this is that the _konfirmand_ can take part of the Eucharist for the first time. So I imagine it wouldn't be wrong to congratulate him on his first _nattverd_. I don't know what the standard or common greeting is though (in Swedish, and even less so in Norwegian).


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## ahaz

I'm sorry, but I have been thinking of a catholic sacrament. You're talking about a Lutheran ceremony (which, by the way, is not a sacrament).
Now I agree fully with missTK that this is almost certainly a normal Norwegian konfirmasjon. (Forgive me missTK!)
Her suggestions are good. "Kommunion" or "nattverd" are unnatural.
"Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning konfirmasjonen" is good.


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## majlo

ahaz said:


> I'm sorry, but I have been thinking of a catholic sacrament. You're talking about a Lutheran ceremony (which, by the way, is not a sacrament).
> Now I agree fully with missTK that this is almost certainly a normal Norwegian konfirmasjon. (Forgive me missTK!)
> Her suggestions are good. "Kommunion" or "nattverd" are unnatural.
> "Førsteplass til Daniel Lerø i anledning konfirmasjonen" is good.



Some sources refer to two (only two are accpeted) Lutheran sacraments actually, but that's not the core of my enquiry anyway.  I think we can finally settle for the name "konfirmasjon".
As for the rest, I think I'll go for missTK's "tildeless" version. I like the sporting ring to it -- mind you that the gift is sort of religion and sports combination so the "tildeless" fits in perfectly.
Now, last but not least, how to say "From Jan & Ewa"?
I'm grateful to you all.


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## Obil Tu

majlo said:


> Some sources refer to two (only two are accpeted) Lutheran sacraments actually, but that's not the core of my enquiry anyway.  I think we can finally settle for the name "konfirmasjon".
> As for the rest, I think I'll go for missTK's "tildeless" version. I like the sporting ring to it -- mind you that the gift is sort of religion and sports combination so the "tildeless" fits in perfectly.
> Now, last but not least, how to say "From Jan & Ewa"?
> I'm grateful to you all.



I also agree that "konfirmasjon" must be what you're looking for, if Daniel and his family are (Lutheran) protestants, like the majority of Norwegians.

I also like MissTK's "tildeles" ("is awarded"), but be careful with the spelling: one "s" only!

"From Jan & Ewa" literally would be "Fra Jan og Ewa" (I think it's more natural to write the "og" than to use the ampersand (&). Alternatively, you could write "Hilsen Jan og Ewa", meaning something like "regards from" or "love from" (though not literally), which is common for ending a letter, for example.

And I think both "førsteplass" and "1. plass" (with a dot after the "1") work, the latter might even look more typically sports-related.

That leaves you with something like "Førsteplass/1. plass tildeles Daniel Lerø i anledning konfirmasjonen hans", *or* "Førsteplass/1. plass tildeles Daniel Lerø i anledning hans konfirmasjon", which is more formal-sounding (because the syntax is strictly speaking Danish – but correct in Norwegian )


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## majlo

I now know everything I needed to know. Thank you very much.


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## Wilma_Sweden

Forgive me for butting in, but I find the whole idea of a trophy as a confirmation gift a bit odd. It's not a sporting achievement, it's a rite of passage into adulthood. Sadly, there isn't much to read in English Wikipedia about Lutheran confirmation or the type of presents typically given to those who are confirmed in the Norwegian Lutheran church, but in Sweden presents tend to be things like a Bible, jewellry, decorative items such as candlesticks (for a future home) or other things marking the young person's entry into adulthood. 

The traditions may of course be different in Norway in terms of the type of presents normally given, but it struck me as so odd that I had to ask.

/Wilma


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## majlo

There's really nothing to be forgiven for.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I understand you might find it odd -- maybe you're just more conservative than I am -- I can't know that. However, I'd like to clarify that my idea for this present is not trying to aim into some conventionality. As an atheist I'm rather trying to come up with something remarkable and unique. I hope that dispels your doubts.


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## vestfoldlilja

I don’t think you should worry. I’m sure the gift will be well received. And even though he is getting confirmed (that sounds odd in English, let’s say konfirmert), that doesn’t mean he himself is very religious, if he is at all. 

The Norwegian society is a very secular one, and yes the majority of the people are members of the Norwegian state church (Lutheran protestants), but on the whole that is more tradition than a reflection on the religions views of all the members.  And if he happens to be religions, and this is indeed an important religion act fro him, to confirm his baptism, I still don’t think your gift is improper. If he is like most kids, the one thing he wants is money anyway! 

Wilma Sweden is right in that it’s a rite of passage into adulthood, and the vast majority of the population do have one, either a religious one or a “borgelig” one, meaning the whole religious aspect is removed and this is done with Human-etisk forbund (The Norwegian Humanist Association). But as I said, even those who do choose a religious one may not be very religious.


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## Wilma_Sweden

majlo said:


> There's really nothing to be forgiven for.
> Thank you for sharing your opinion. I understand you might find it odd -- maybe you're just more conservative than I am -- I can't know that. However, I'd like to clarify that my idea for this present is not trying to aim into some conventionality. As an atheist I'm rather trying to come up with something remarkable and unique. I hope that dispels your doubts.


It's OK, I'm horribly traditional in some respects, and I totally blame my mother!  With your explanation in mind, I'm all for it! 

Vestfoldlilja's remarks about most kids being in it for the presents/money is probably very true about Swedish kids as well. Swedish society is also much like the Norwegian - very secular, and yet over 75% are still members of the Swedish Church (Lutheran), in spite of the fact that it's not even a state church anymore. I quite like the freedom of religion AND freedom from religion that we have here. 

/Wilma


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## majlo

Well, I think kids' drive (or maybe not only kids') for money is universal across the world -- of that I'm sure. 
I think Scandinavian countries are role models for the others like Poland as far as religious freedom is concerned, but that's a whole different matter.


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## Huffameg

Wilma_Sweden said:


> Forgive me for butting in, but I find the whole idea of a trophy as a confirmation gift a bit odd. It's not a sporting achievement, it's a rite of passage into adulthood. Sadly, there isn't much to read in English Wikipedia about Lutheran confirmation or the type of presents typically given to those who are confirmed in the Norwegian Lutheran church, but in Sweden presents tend to be things like a Bible, jewellry, decorative items such as candlesticks (for a future home) or other things marking the young person's entry into adulthood.
> 
> The traditions may of course be different in Norway in terms of the type of presents normally given, but it struck me as so odd that I had to ask.
> 
> /Wilma



I might be completely mistaken about what you want to do but to me it seems strange to mark the trophee "1 place". I thought that the reference to sporting achievements was kind of a joke because it would be the first time this person do something. However, when a person is "konfirmert" in Norway that doesn't mean that he takes part for the first time in anything, certainly not the first "nattverd". I remember having my first "nattverd" years before my "konfirmasjon". I just think that, if I'm right about the sporting reference thing, the joke is lost as no one thinks of "konfirmasjon" as the first of anything.


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## vestfoldlilja

That is true, a konfirmasjon, is just a confirmation of ones baptism, and does not mean you are finally allowed to partake in communion. Children may do that as well, and we do not, as I know the Catholic do, have a celebration of that like, førstekommunion. 

Instead of writing førsteplass, you can say "pokalen tildeles/gis/ til deg i anledning din konfirmasjon".  Though the word konfirmasjon, means confirmation, the same word is used for non-Christian konfirmasjoner as well, so it just really means your passing into adulthood.


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## majlo

"1st place" is not a reference to being confirmed for the first time, but it refers to the notion of awarding the three best athletes in sporting events. I think it's clear why it's not "2nd place" or "3rd place".


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