# Adverbs of place (Τοπικά επιρρήματα)



## larshgf

Hi,

Adverbs of place are very usefull Words. They are combined with a preposition but sometimes there are two possible prepositions for the same adverb (από/σε).

*with από*
έξω από
κάτω από
μακριά από
πίσω από

*with σε*
ανάμεσα σε (between)
δίπλα σε (beside)
κοντά σε (near)
πλάι σε (near)

*with σε or από*
απέναντι από/σε
γύρω από/σε
μέσα από (through, from inside)
μέσα σε (inside)
μπροστά από/σε
πάνω από (example: over the table)
πάνω σε (example: on the table)

There are a few adverbs (underlined) which can use either από or σε. Any "rules of thumb" for using either από or σε with these?


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## Perseas

Hi larshgf,

I've been thinking of some cases, but if you had something else in mind, feel free to ask again.

When "απέναντι" and "γύρω" are used to denote place, they are usually combined with "από":
_
The post office is across from the police station/Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι από το αστυνομικό τμήμα. 
They put a fence around the swimming pool/  Έβαλαν φράχτη γύρω από την πισίνα. _

"Απέναντι σε" would be used in this sentence: 
_The army exists to protect against invasion/Ο στρατός υπάρχει για να μας παρέχει προστασία απέναντι σε εισβολές. _
But here the meaning is not exactly local.

"Γύρω σε" can be used in this sentence:
_I'll see you around three o'clock/ Θα τα πούμε γύρω στις τρεις. _
But here the meaning again is not local._

Μπροστά από το σπίτι μου vs Μπροστά στο σπίτι μου: I don't see much difference. 
Perhaps, something is in front of my house(,whereas my house is behind of this) vs something is in front of my house and distinguishes being there._

PS. Most sentences are taken from WR dictionary_.
_


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## larshgf

Thank you for the answer Perseas.
It is tempting to conclude that Απέναντι σε and Γύρω σε has a kind of figurative meaning while  Απέναντι από and Γύρω από have a more direct, localizing meaning.
While it is indifferent whether you choose μπροστά σε or μπροστά από.


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## dmtrs

Hi all, 
I'd like to add a thought or two to those very accurately explained by Perseas above.
"_Μπροστά σε/στο" is also used to emphasize proximity (Αυτό που έψαχνα ήταν μπροστά στα μάτια μου = right in front of me); in some cases it seems to indicate that something blocks the way to what it lies/stands/is placed in front of or hides it (έβαλε το χέρι μπροστά στην πόρτα/στον ήλιο/στο πρόσωπο); in another use it means that something/someone not only stands in front of something/someone but also faces it (οδηγήθηκε μπροστά στο βασιλιά/στο δικαστήριο/στο εκτελεστικό απόσπασμα - sometimes even metaphorically: μπροστά στον κίνδυνο να συλληφθεί το έβαλε στα πόδια).
There might be many more uses - language is SO versatile!_


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## Perseas

larshgf said:


> Thank you for the answer Perseas.
> It is tempting to conclude that Απέναντι σε and Γύρω σε has a kind of figurative meaning while  Απέναντι από and Γύρω από have a more direct, localizing meaning.
> While it is indifferent whether you choose μπροστά σε or μπροστά από.


About "απέναντι": If the use is local, then it means "on the opposite side". (usually "απέναντι από")

Be careful:
"Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι από το αστυνομικό τμήμα" means, as I wrote above, "The post office is across from the police station". But "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι στο αστυνομικό τμήμα", would be understood rather as "Both the post office and the police station are on the same side, which is on the opposite side of another place". A better formulation would be "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι, δίπλα/κοντά στο αστυνομικό τμήμα".

About "γύρω": "γύρω από" is usually used to denote place, while "γύρω σε" usually means "about", "approximately".

Of course, language is versatile, as dmtrs correctly puts it, and there might be more uses!


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## διαφορετικός

The following dictionary entry
Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής
uses "απέναντι από" to describe spatial relationships only, whereas "απέναντι σε" is used to describe spatial, confrontational, as well as comparative relationships.



Perseas said:


> "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι από το αστυνομικό τμήμα" means, as I wrote above, "The post office is across from the police station". But "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι στο αστυνομικό τμήμα", would be understood rather as "Both the post office and the police station are on the same side, which is on the opposite side of another place".


I suppose the sentence with "απέναντι στο" is a correct translation of "The post office is across from the police station" as well, but it can be easily misunderstood, as you have explained (because "σε" alone can describe spatial relationships, too). I also suppose that the sentence would need a comma ("Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι* ,* στο αστυνομικό τμήμα") to express the misunderstood meaning correctly.


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## Perseas

διαφορετικός said:


> I suppose the sentence with "απέναντι στο" is a correct translation of "The post office is across from the police station" as well


Hi διαφορετικέ,

To my understanding, "απέναντι από" and "απέναντι σε" do not mean the same in this sentence: "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι από το /απέναντι στο αστυνομικό τμήμα".



διαφορετικός said:


> I also suppose that the sentence would need a comma ("Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι* ,* στο αστυνομικό τμήμα")


I would also put a comma there, which I believe is correct, (and even better a δίπλα or κοντά -- see #5) but in any case Ι wouldn't understand something different.


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## dmtrs

Perseas said:


> "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι στο αστυνομικό τμήμα", would be understood rather as "Both the post office and the police station are on the same side, which is on the opposite side of another place". A better formulation would be "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι, δίπλα/κοντά στο αστυνομικό τμήμα".





διαφορετικός said:


> I also suppose that the sentence would need a comma ("Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι* ,* στο αστυνομικό τμήμα") to express the misunderstood meaning correctly.



OK, that would be the meaning if there was a comma there. But then it's not "απέναντι σε"; it is plain "απέναντι", without a preposition. The preposition relates to "βρίσκεται", which is a totally different case.


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## διαφορετικός

Thanks for your reply, Perseas.


Perseas said:


> To my understanding, "απέναντι από" and "απέναντι σε" do not mean the same in this sentence: "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται απέναντι από το /απέναντι στο αστυνομικό τμήμα".


This is difficult to understand, having read the following example from Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής :
"Ο Όλυμπος υψώνεται απέναντι στον Kίσσαβο."
I suppose this does _not_ (necessarily) mean "Ο Όλυμπος υψώνεται απέναντι, κοντά στον Kίσσαβο.", do you agree? Then maybe you can understand my confusion ...


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## Perseas

Thank you, διαφορετικέ, too.

I see what you mean. I'll try an explanation.
First, «υψώνομαι απέναντι σε κάποιον» is a verb phrase.
Also, the meaning in "Ο Όλυμπος υψώνεται απέναντι στον Kίσσαβο" reminds me of  that in "Aυτός στάθηκε γενναίος απέναντι στον εχθρό". The verbs "υψώνομαι" & "στεκομαι" here are forceful, intense, whereas the verb "βρίσκομαι" in the other sentence is static and descriptive.

 "Το ταχυδρομείο βρίσκεται *απέναντι, στο αστυνομικό τμήμα*": Here you need a comma, as was said above. If I wanted to communicate "The post office is across from the police station", I'd use only "*απέναντι από*".


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## διαφορετικός

Thank you again, Perseas.


Perseas said:


> the meaning in "Ο Όλυμπος υψώνεται απέναντι στον Kίσσαβο" reminds me of that in "Aυτός στάθηκε γενναίος απέναντι στον εχθρό".


I see, "υψώνομαι" can have a metaphorical, confrontational meaning, in which case "σε" is the appropriate preposition. And if it the word "υψώνομαι" is applied to mountains, the confrontational meaning can be kept (as if the mountains were persons - a "fictional" or "reverse" second metaphor, so to speak), so that the same preposition, "σε", can be used.


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## Perseas

διαφορετικός said:


> Thank you again, Perseas.
> 
> I see, "υψώνομαι" can have a metaphorical, confrontational meaning, in which case "σε" is the appropriate preposition. And if it the word "υψώνομαι" is applied to mountains, the confrontational meaning can be kept (as if the mountains were persons - a "fictional" or "reverse" second metaphor, so to speak), so that the same preposition, "σε", can be used.


These are my thoughts too.


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