# Urdu: <xāb> plural



## panjabigator

What would be the plural for <xāb> in Urdu?  

Regards,
PG


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## lcfatima

I have observed people using khaab as both the plural and singular, e.g. "mai.n aajkal bahut se khaab dekh rahi hoo.n," but I have noticed that it is inflected in the plural before a post position "mere khaabo.n mei.n..."


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## panjabigator

I have also heard that.  In standard Hindi, <xāb> would be unchangeable in the singular and plural, and would number would only be differentiated in the oblique, as you state.  

I'm interested to know if Urdu has some irregular plural, following the pattern of <savāl>/<savālāt>.


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## Masood

lcfatima said:


> I have observed people using khaab as both the plural and singular, e.g. "mai.n aajkal bahut se khaab dekh rahi hoo.n," but I have noticed that it is inflected in the plural before a post position "mere khaabo.n mei.n..."


_Khaab _is _dream _isn't it?


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## panjabigator

Jī.  

Curious, Masood bha'ī, what do your parents say in Panjabi: <supNā> or <xāb>?


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## Cilquiestsuens

xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis 

Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...

Mai.n ne pichle dino.n me.n bohot kh(w)aabe.n dekhi hai.n.....

But in Urdu it is masculine.

As for the plural, it is a Persian word, so it can't follow the pattern of Arabic words such as *su'aal* or *jawaab*...


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## Illuminatus

At least in Hindi, we always treat it as Masculine
Maine khwaabein dekhi sounds very funny!


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## BP.

Well, _khaab_ does have a feminin form too - when it is used as a synonym to sleep e.g. in _meHv-e-khaab hona_: محو خواب ھونا. Comes from _khaabeedan_: خوابیدن. See the couplet:
 یہ بھی نالے کا طرز ہے قائم
 خواب اک خلق پر حرام ہوئی

Plural...am stumped as usual. Maybe it could be _akhwaab_: اخواب.


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## Masood

panjabigator said:


> Jī.
> 
> Curious, Masood bha'ī, what do your parents say in Panjabi: <supNā> or <xāb>?


I've only heard them say <xab>.
e.g.
_<xab>'ich daykiya see _(I saw it in my dream).


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## Faylasoof

The plural of خواب *xāb *is just that, whether you have one or more. 

In its normal use it was treated as a masculine in both the Lucknow & Delhi dialects of Urdu. 

BP, *a**x**w**āb *sounds lovely. Pity it doesn't exist. It can't as you yourself point out that it is derived from the Persian خوابیدن, where the broken plural doesn't apply.


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## panjabigator

Good to know.  Maybe we can start the new pluralization trend 

Anyone for <xābāt> or <axvāb>?


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## Faylasoof

Or perhaps <xāwāib>!! 

Well, it can be fun to do this. We certainly did in our school but now only if we have time to spare and perhaps by PM.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Well, if we are to arabize plurals of non-Arabic words in Urdu, I  vote for

*axwibah* (jawaab > ajwibah) .,


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## panjabigator

Cilqui, is this a real plural of <jawāb>?  What fun!


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## Cilquiestsuens

It is, it's made on the patter af3ilah...

jawaab : ajwibah

su'aal :   as'ilah

etc.


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## Faylasoof

When I said above <The plural of خواب *xāb *is just that..>, I'm only talking about the nominative form. For the dative and genitive cases of course we do use the standard Prakrit-based plural <* xābo.n*> e.g. <<* xābo.n* *ki dunyā*>> ; <<* xābo.n* *mei.n*>> etc.

…and as for the plurals, ajwibah & as'ilah – standard Arabic broken plurals – though commonly used in Arabic speech and writing are not so in Urdu. Higher prose writing and speech does use them but more commonly one hears <*jawābāt & su’ālāt / sawālāt*>.


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## panjabigator

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Well, _khaab_ does have a feminin form too - when it is used as a synonym to sleep e.g. in _meHv-e-khaab hona_: محو خواب ھونا. Comes from _khaabeedan_: خوابیدن. See the couplet:
> یہ بھی نالے کا طرز ہے قائم
> خواب اک خلق پر حرام ہوئی
> 
> Plural...am stumped as usual. Maybe it could be _akhwaab_: اخواب.



Would <meHv> mean absorbed in engrossed in here?  So "engrossed in sleep," perhaps?


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## Faylasoof

Ah! here <meHv محو> means <lost>. 

  محو خواب ھونا = lost in sleep / sleep soundly.  

Of course محو also has the meanings you give . Here are the synonms: گُم_ gum / _مَگَن_  magan_ / مَشْغُول mashghuul / مُسْتَغْرَق_ mustaghraq_

__


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## linguist786

Am I the only one who tends to say _khwaab_ and not _khaab_??


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## Faylasoof

linguist786 said:


> Am I the only one who tends to say _khwaab_ and not _khaab_??



No! There are many who say khwaab / xwaab but the _standard Urdu (and Persian) pronunciation is_ _khaab / xaab_, just like it is _xaahish / khaahish and not xwaahish / khwaahish_. 

Of course both have a و in the second position but that is not pronounced even though many of us include it in the transliteration for the sake of accuracy!


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## Koozagar

Cilquiestsuens said:


> xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis
> 
> Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...
> 
> 
> I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?


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## panjabigator

Koozagar said:


> Cilquiestsuens said:
> 
> 
> 
> xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis
> 
> Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...
> 
> 
> I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if its _khalis_, but the Indian Punjabi word is <supnā> and it's masculine.
Click to expand...


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## Qureshpor

The v/w in Khv/Khw is called vaa'o ma'duulah (the silent h). However, in Classical Persian it was not silent. Words like Khush/Khud/Khor were pronounced Khvash/Khvad/Khvar.

mayaazaar more kih daanah-kash ast
kih jaaN daarad-o-jaan-i-shiiriiN Khvash ast

Molest not (even) an ant that toils to drag a grain
For it too has life and this dear life is a blessing

(I believe Sa'di is quoting Firdausi)


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## Qureshpor

Koozagar said:


> Cilquiestsuens said:
> 
> 
> 
> xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis
> 
> Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...
> 
> 
> I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest (guess?) that "sleep" (niiNdar) is feminine, just like niiNd is in Urdu. The equivalent Persian word has then been given the same gender in Punjabi for both of its meanings. jaate jaate...
> 
> 3ishq hamaare Khyaal paRaa hai Khvaab *ga'ii* aaraam gayaa
> jii kaa jaanaa Thahar rahaa hai SubH gayaa yaa shaam gayaa
> 
> Mir
Click to expand...


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