# BCS: barathea (tkanina)



## dudasd

Zna li neko kojom se rečju ova - ili njoj najsličnija - tkanina može prevesti sa engleskog? Reč je o materijalu koji se koristio za britanske uniforme u Indiji, početkom XX veka. Po tkanju i strukturi sličan je tergalu (od kojeg se i sad prave uniforme, pa i kod nas), i takođe je reč o kombinaciji raznovrsnih vlakana - ali tergal je reč novijeg porekla, iz 1954, ako sam našla tačnu informaciju, te ne mogu da ga upotrebim. Vrlo je moguće da za taj materijal imamo čak preciznu reč nemačkog ili francuskog porekla, budući da su do bile zlatne godine krojačkog zanata u nas.

Ako nešto pomaže, engleska definicija je: _barathea - a closely woven clothing fabric that has a broken twill weave which produces a pebbly-surface effect and is made of silk, rayon, cotton, wool, or combinations of these yarns. _


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## Hole

Ne razumijem se baš, ali da nije to možda češljana vuna? 
http://www.universalclassificationsystem.org/hr/Rukovanje,%20skladi%C5%A1tenje%20i%20pakiranje/Tkanine,%20vuna%20i%20dlaka/MjI5ODc3MjM2NDU=-prd.php


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## dudasd

Vuna jeste bila osnovni sastavni deo te tkanine (moguće uz dodatak pamuka i još nečeg), ali mi nažalost treba tačan naziv materijala. Čak sam našla tačno tu uniformu na netu, ali mi, naravno, ne pomaže jer je opis opet na engleskom... a ja se baš ne razumem u materijale, pa ne pomaže ni slika.  Pisac je vrlo precizan, ne smem da prevedem samo kao "vuna" ili "tanak vuneni štof". Nešto slično onome od čega se šiju pozorničke uniforme, ima jedva vidljiva rebarca u tkanju i gipko je, ali pojma nemam kako se taj materijal zove. Nije keper, nije rips... 

U svakom slučaju hvala na spisku, možda će neki od onih naziva da me odvede dalje u potrazi.


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## Hole

U krajnjem slučaju, možete ostaviti naziv na engleskom u kurzivu i objasniti u fusnoti. Ništa mi pametnije ne pada na pamet


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## dudasd

To mi nece dati izdavač, tj. "nije praksa". Osećam da ću na kraju morati da udarim jedan kilometarski opis materijala... 

Hvala u svakom slučaju.


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## TriglavNationalPark

THIS page from an online textile dictionary lists "barathea" in various European languages (links on the lower left). BCS isn't one of them, but all of the languages that are included simply use "barathea" or "baratea".

Rather than proving that "barathea" is a common word in these languages (it's not, at least not in Slovenian), this perhaps illustrates that there are no word-for-word translations of the term and that you may need to describe the fabric.


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## dudasd

Hmm, this one is very interesting. "Kleiderstoff" rings a bell in my head. Thank you TNP.


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## Duya

TriglavNationalPark said:


> THIS page from an online textile dictionary lists "barathea" in various European languages (links on the lower left).



[OT] I particularly like the "Italian" version .


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## dudasd

Obviously someone made the mess with the links and put Română version instead of Italian.  But Duya, do you happen to know or remember any of the materials used in army? (I always thought guys should know that.)


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## TriglavNationalPark

dudasd said:


> Hmm, this one is very interesting. "Kleiderstoff" rings a bell in my head. Thank you TNP.


 
Don't mention it! By the way, "Kleiderstoff" simply means "textile" or "clothing material" in German. Barathea is a type of "Kleiderstoff."



Duya said:


> [OT] I particularly like the "Italian" version .


 
 It looks like they mixed up Italian and Lithuanian. (At least it's not the usual Slovenian/Slovak mix-up.)


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## dudasd

I know what Kleiderstoff means (even if my German is a bit rusty - "bit"  ), but you gave me a good idea, to search through sites in German. I guess there should be pretty much information about uniforms there, and I have a feeling there is something-stoff that can replace barathea. (Btw I had got quite a different language as "Italian", now it's something else... a merry site.  )


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## sokol

I can't say I've ever heard "Barathea" in German - nor any calque or alternative term for the thing in German; so yes, certainly it isn't a common term.
And a quick Google search also did not show any alternatives; it seems what is used is Barathea only.


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## dudasd

Nothing even similar in the history of Austrian or German army? (Now maybe this is "beyond the scope of the forum", but I guess that "replacing a term by the most similar one" can count as "help with translation", not as "asking for information"? Sokol, you are the mod here, so if I am asking too much, please warn me.)


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## sokol

dudasd said:


> Nothing even similar in the history of Austrian or German army?


Not that I know of, but I am no specialist in this field.  (Even wasn't in the Austrian army for that matter. ) So I'm sorry, but I fear I can't be of much help here.


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## dudasd

I've done some extra research, and it seems that barathea is (or almost is) what we could call serž (serge). The weaving pattern and types of the threads used for it are virtually identical. (So it would save me of putting footnotes or long explanations.) If anyone thinks it would be a wrong translation - contribute please.  And thanks to everybody.


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## TriglavNationalPark

While barathea and serge are indeed closely related, they aren't identical, at least not in English. For instance, THIS page about US military uniforms includes the following line:

"The uniform material for winter semiformal dress was serge or gabardine. Officers may use barathea material."

According to THIS source, both serge and barathea fall in the category of "wool worsteds", but they have separate definitions:



> *Barathea* A fine, smooth, springy fabric with a broken rib pattern on the right side of the fabric, barathea is generally used for skirts, jackets and men's suits.


 


> *Serge* traditionally made from worsted yarn; serge is a hardwearing fabric with a close twill weave that is heavier in weight than gabardine. It is now made in a variety of manmade fibres as well.


 
Having said this, they may be close enough for your purposes.


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