# Urdu-Persian: ruuH-i-ravaaN or ruuH-o-ravaaN?



## Qureshpor

One comes across the phrase "ruuH-i-ravaaN" in Urdu speech and poetry to mean something like "the heart and soul of..". I know that ruuH is soul in Arabic and ravaaN (ruvaaN?) is the same in Persian. But the izaafat construction does n't seem quite right to me. Should it be "ruuH-o-ravaaN" or am I mistaken in my thinking?


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## Alfaaz

Interesting question! I thought it meant departing soul/rawaaN rouH/jaane waali rouH as in rawaanah....? (or maybe that is another word/expression)


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## UrduMedium

In Urdu, I have always understood _ruuH-i-ravaaN_ as more like "_the driving force_", _roughly _mapping force (spirit) to _ruuH_, and driving to _ravaaN _(continuous, flowing, so on).


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Interesting question! I thought it meant departing soul/rawaaN rouH/jaane waali rouH as in rawaanah....? (or maybe that is another word/expression)



Please allow me to remove your "tazabzub"

P روان _rawān_, vulg. _rawāṅ_ [prop. _ruwān_; old P. _ruãn_, _rvãn_; Pehl. _rubān_; Zend _urvan_], s.m. The rational soul; soul, spirit, life.


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## Alfaaz

> In Urdu, I have always understood _ruuH-i-ravaaN_ as more like "_the driving force_", _roughly _mapping force (spirit) to _ruuH_, and driving to _ravaaN _(continuous, flowing, so on).


That makes sense also. Edit: آج کی اس تقریب کے روح رواں سے چند جملے سنتے ہیں 


> P روان _rawān_, vulg. _rawāṅ_ [prop. _ruwān_; old P. _ruãn_, _rvãn_; Pehl. _rubān_; Zend _urvan_], s.m. The rational soul; soul, spirit, life.


Edit: Thanks for the definition! In that case perhaps it could mean "soul of the soul"..........philosophical depth...?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> That makes sense also. Edit: آج کی اس تقریب کے روح رواں سے چند جملے سنتے ہیں
> 
> Edit: Thanks for the definition! In that case perhaps it could mean "soul of the soul"..........philosophical depth...?



Thanks for this Alfaaz. In fact, I too thought on the same lines as your suggestion, "soul of soul". But it also occurred to me that one could possibly have two synonymous words paired together for emphasis with an adjoining "and".


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## marrish

^ QP SaaHib, do you remember _jaa-i-gaah_?


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> ^ QP SaaHib, do you remember _jaa-i-gaah_?



I do indeed my good Sir but I do not believe the construction is with an izaafat. The compound word I think is "jaaygaah".


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> I do indeed my good Sir but I do not believe the construction is with an izaafat. The compound word I think is "jaaygaah".


May be, and the way you wrote is the way it is pronounced, too. I don't know but I think it was an izaafat.
If this hint doesn't suit here, so it be! 
Can you please provide some references of _ruuH-e ravaan_ from the literature so that we might get more insight into its meaning? I've always used this expression in the sense as explained by UM saahab in #3.


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## Qureshpor

My 20th Century Kitaabistaan dictionary gives this term as "ruuH-o-ruvaaN".

Here is a shi3r by Akhtar Sherani

jism-i-Panjaab thaa be-ruuH-o-ruvaaN muddat se
jism-i-Panjaab meN phir ruuH-o-ruvaaN aatii hai

Another dictionary on the net gives both.

*مرکبات*

رُوحُ الْاِجْتِماع، رُوحُ الْاَرْواح، رُوحُ الْخَمْر، رُوحُ اللّٰہ، رُوحِ آسُورَہ، رُوحِ بِیش، رُوح پُرْ فُتُوح، رُوحِ نَفْسانی،* رُوح و رَواں*، رُوحِ تارْپِیں، رُوحِ تُوتِیا، رُوح حَیوانی، رُوحِ خَبِیث، رُوحِ رَبّانی،* رُوحِ رَواں*، رُوحِ سَیلانی، رُوح فَرْسا، رُوح کی غِذا، رُوحِ مِثالی، رُوح مُدْرِکہ، رُوحِ مَعادِن، رُوحِ مُقامی، رُوح مُقِیم، رُوح مُکَرَّم، رُوحِ نَباتی، رُوح اَفْزا، رُوحُ الْاَمِین، رُوحُ الْقُدُس، رُوحُ اللہ، رُوحِ اِنْسانی، رُوح پَرْوَر، رُوحِ عَصْر، رُوحِ مُجَرَّد


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## marrish

The matters being so, I tend to give more credibility to the printed dictionary. However we cannot pass by the fact that ruuH-e ravaan aslo exists and is used as such.

Thank you for the references!


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## Qureshpor

From Iqbal's "aaftaab" (tarjumah-i-gaaytri)

ai aaftaab! ruuh-o-ruvaan-i-jahaaN hai tuu
shiiraazah-band-i-daftar-i-kaun-o-makaaN hai tuu

...

vuh aaftaab jis se zamaane meN nuur hai
dil hai, xirad hai, ruuH-i-ravaaN hai, shu3uur hai


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## UrduMedium

QURESHPOR said:


> My 20th Century Kitaabistaan dictionary gives this term as "ruuH-o-ruvaaN".
> 
> Here is a shi3r by Akhtar Sherani
> 
> jism-i-Panjaab thaa be-ruuH-o-ruvaaN muddat se
> jism-i-Panjaab meN phir ruuH-o-ruvaaN aatii hai
> 
> Another dictionary on the net gives both.
> 
> *مرکبات*
> 
> رُوحُ الْاِجْتِماع، رُوحُ الْاَرْواح، رُوحُ الْخَمْر، رُوحُ اللّٰہ، رُوحِ آسُورَہ، رُوحِ بِیش، رُوح پُرْ فُتُوح، رُوحِ نَفْسانی،* رُوح و رَواں*، رُوحِ تارْپِیں، رُوحِ تُوتِیا، رُوح حَیوانی، رُوحِ خَبِیث، رُوحِ رَبّانی،* رُوحِ رَواں*، رُوحِ سَیلانی، رُوح فَرْسا، رُوح کی غِذا، رُوحِ مِثالی، رُوح مُدْرِکہ، رُوحِ مَعادِن، رُوحِ مُقامی، رُوح مُقِیم، رُوح مُکَرَّم، رُوحِ نَباتی، رُوح اَفْزا، رُوحُ الْاَمِین، رُوحُ الْقُدُس، رُوحُ اللہ، رُوحِ اِنْسانی، رُوح پَرْوَر، رُوحِ عَصْر، رُوحِ مُجَرَّد


Why _r*u*vaaN_? I found both in Feroz-ul-Lughaat Jami3. Both as _r*a*vaaN_.


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## Qureshpor

UrduMedium said:


> Why _r*u*vaaN_? I found both in Feroz-ul-Lughaat Jami3. Both as _r*a*vaaN_.



Because Platts gives it as "ruvaaN" (see post 4) and Kitaabistaan's 20th Century also gives this pronunciation (post 10). Could it be that in the izaafat construction the word is ruuH-i-ravaaN (the moving/flowing spirit) and in the 3atf construction it is ruuH-o-ruvaaN?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Because Platts gives it as "ruvaaN" (see post 4) and Kitaabistaan's 20th Century also gives this pronunciation (post 10). Could it be that in the izaafat construction the word is ruuH-i-ravaaN (the moving/flowing spirit) and in the 3atf construction it is ruuH-o-ruvaaN?


I'm of the opinion that it's best possible.


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## mannoushka

In Persian it is always _rooh va ravaan_, or, _rooh o ravaan_. The phrase 'roohe ravaan' would mean 'the soul that is in flux', perhaps meaningful from the point of view of some philosophers, but not exactly a meaning that would be intended by most ordinary speakers. To me, _rooh_ is the immortal soul, whereas_ ravaan_ is the psyche. So the phrase, again to me, means 'the soul and the mind'.


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## bakshink

Does _r*a*vaaN_ mean "Tazaa", Fresh or freshen up? As far as I know or has ever heard this word in context in Hindi/"Punjabi" as  "ravaaN" karna- like to ease up a rusted door bolt or nut and bolt or Yadein ravaaN karanaa- to freshen up old memories. May be the usage was wrong or what of it I remember is wrong.

Navneet


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## Sheikh_14

bakshink said:


> Does _r*a*vaaN_ mean "Tazaa", Fresh or freshen up? As far as I know or has ever heard this word in context in Hindi/"Punjabi" as  "ravaaN" karna- like to ease up a rusted door bolt or nut and bolt or Yadein ravaaN karanaa- to freshen up old memories. May be the usage was wrong or what of it I remember is wrong.
> 
> Navneet



To be honest I have never heard ravaan being used in such a context but what its ought to indicate when used in the manner above is that things are flowing smoothly once again; or atleast thats what I picked from it. You hear the word often being tagged along into a compound form of ravaan-davaan which equated to things flowing without glitches.


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