# kirei v/s kawaii



## maybe4ever

Which is the better word to say to a girl?  Kirei or Kawaii, are either of these words used by men?  Whats a good way to tell a girl she is pretty or attractive.


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## Cereth

Hello again maybe4ever

Well, kirei means= beautiful
        Kawaii means= cute, nice, 
So definitely I would prefer to hear : "Ceret ha kirei desu"  than "Ceret wa kawaii desu", of course both are great words to hear ^_^!!


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## youtin

These are how I personally define those words:

kirei - pretty (physical, usually face)

kawaii - cute (can either be physical or non-physical. It could be the _way_ that a person acts is kawaii.) I think the word "kawaii" has a definition much broader than the English "cute".


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## cheshire

キティちゃんや子猫ちゃん、猫一般、動物一般にたいして「きれいだ」とはほとんど（ほぼ１００パーセント）言わないよ！ 

人間の男女にたいしては「きれい」とも「かわいい」ともどちらも使えます。
「きれい」は美醜のものさし、「かわいい」は感情の愛着のものさしに関係していると言えるでしょう


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## Aoyama

Basically, as stated already, *kawai = cute, kirei = pretty* , to be simple. One could infer from that that kirei woud be stronger than kawai. In fact, the use of these two words is _also_ a _matter of generation_ .*Kawai *has recently gained an "almighty" position with the young generation (as being _cool_), whereas *kirei* would sound old-fashioned. *Kawai *is even used in French (or in English ?) as a special concept of "cuteness", Japanese-style.
I feel like saying to a girl that she is *kirei *would make her feel _old_ . *Kawai* or even, why not,* purittei* (pretty) might be better ...


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## cheshire

> One could infer from that that kirei woud be stronger than kawai.


That's not true. They're not on the same vector.


> whereas *kirei* would sound old-fashioned


That's absolutely not true. Those are just different.


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## student7

cheshire said:


> That's not true. They're not on the same vector.
> That's absolutely not true. Those are just different.



I agree.
Though kirei and kawaii have something in common such as being pleasant to look at, basically they are different.
I often hear a phrase like 'oreno kanojo wa
kirei to iuyorimo kawaii.'
(My girlfriend is kawaii rather than kirei.)

Let me give you some examples of these words.
In my view, the late Princess Diana was kirei.
Yoshimi Tendo is kawaii.
Little girls are kawaii but they are not kirei.

Note that even a kawaii woman becomes kirei when she looks different from
what she usually is, eg. when she wears a wedding dress or special makeup.

Both kirei and kawaii can be used for non-human objects.

Kirei is used for panoramic views, the cherry blossom, a starry sky or a high resolution computer display.

Kawaii is used for cats, dogs, dolls, stuffed animals
or even a cellular phone (probably because it's small and fashionable).  

I hope this would help.


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## student7

Can anybody please give some examples of kawaii Westerners?
I can't come up with it!


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## cheshire

Yoshimi Tendo is kawaii. 
Yoshimi Tendo is kirei.  

今日の○○ちゃんは*きれい*だけど、何かあったの？（たぶんお化粧とかしてきれい）
今日の○○ちゃんはとてもきれいだ！
きれいだよー。
いつもきれいだけど、今日は格別にきれいだねー。
かわいいよー。

きれいは客観的評価が含まれていて、かわいいは個人的感情面での評価が含まれている、という理解でいいと思います


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## student7

cheshire said:


> Yoshimi Tendo is kawaii.
> Yoshimi Tendo is kirei.
> 
> I just gave the example so that everyone can understand what kawaii is all about, but deep down I don't...
> Anyway, please give some examples of western kawaii persons!
> I guess Tendo is not a good example, because she is known only to those living in Japan.
> 
> きれいは客観的評価が含まれていて、かわいいは個人的感情面での評価が含まれている、という理解でいいと思います



I'm not sure what you mean by 'objective rating', but when I feel a girl is kirei, I don't measure nor calculate it.
I think both kirei and kawaii have much to do with our emotions and feelings.


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## uchi.m

I believe that _kirei _is mainly related to someone's or something's beautiful appearance whereas _kawaii _is not only bounded to someone's or something's looks, but also expresses the sympathy one feels for someone/something.

So if Tarou-san says _Hanako-san wa kawaii desu ne_ when introducing themselves, it does not only mean that Tarou thinks Hanako is somewhat pretty but also, and most important, that he thinks he could get along well with her.


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## Magudo

It is more than all of that, Kawaii and Kirei are 2 different ways of beauty... you can divide japanese men uin two groups, the ones who like kawai and the ones who likes kirei.

Kirei: Is the strong beauty, it what you would say "Beautiful" strong features, for example in the western world we could take: Monica Belluci as an example of Kirei.

Kawai: is more like childish beauty, it also means cute, but it does not mean a girl kawai is less pretty than a kirei one, it is just a matter of your taste... and lately in Japan, and because of the Japanese likes, Kawais are taking over kirei beauty... to find an example of kawai in teh western world... we could say Miranda Kerr, The Olsen twins, Alicia Silverstone... girls who look more like teenagers than women... 

It is difficult to find this beauty in the western world but easier in the Japanese one... 

I personally prefer the Kirei, the strong oriental features, a beautiful woman rather than a kawaiii childish looking teenager...


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## almostfreebird

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I tend to take to a woman who people around me don't think is beautiful.


蓼食う虫も好きずき。(táde kuu mushimo sukízuki)


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## 涼宮

If きれい is pretty and beautiful what happens with 美しい？
彼女は美しいよ


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## Ilmen

That's right, what about the difference between 美しい and きれい? Does 美しい only applicable to animated targets (like fishes and other animals) or can it apply also to non-animated ones such flowers? Until now, I never see it used to describe non-animated objects.


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## Aoyama

Same as in French : beau and joli ...美 (bi) = le beau ...


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## Ilmen

Oh je vois. Mais en français, n'aura t-on pas tendance à préférer « c'est une joli fleur » à « c'est une belle fleur » ?

What about Japanese? Is 「きれいな花」 prefered over 「美しい花」?


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## almostfreebird

Generally "美しい" is used literarily in novels, people usually don't use "美しい"
in a daily conversation maybe because it sounds literary or maybe pompous.

For example there is a book titled "すべての美しい馬"(translated from "_All the Pretty Horses_").

And when you use "きれいな" or "美しい" for animals, usually and normally it's about their beautiful hairs or beautiful bodies, not their faces.


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## Aoyama

That's _pretty_ much the same with beau/belle and joli/jolie in French (that almost every Japanese will also understand, because those two words are often used in Japanese as well).
Beau/belle has a deeper meaning than joli(e), which is the case also with 美しい.
One might say 美しいkokoro (sorry, no Japanese on this PC) = a nice heart, a person with a good heart.
As for French : « c'est une joli*e* fleur » vs. « c'est une belle fleur » ? Both are equally possible, use of "belle" would add a nuance of seriousness, as 美しい would in Japanese. Cf. what AFB explained above.


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## Hiro Sasaki

We o not say " Kawaii" referring to a woman 30 years old and we 
do not say "This car is "Kawaii". But, in some foreign coutries, people 
have  begun to misuse the word "Kawaii". They say "kawaii" for something 
Japanese, which are great, cool, wonderful. 

This wrong use of the Japanese word caused much confusion.

Hiro Sasaki


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## Aoyama

Some cars can be "kawaii", like "Figaro" by Nissan or some other small cars like the Fiat 500 etc.
But it is true that 





> in some foreign coutries, people
> have begun to misuse the word "Kawaii".


. One speaks now about a whole "kawaii" culture, most of it deriving from mangas ...


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## DeProfundisMorsVasCosumet

Aoyama said:


> Some cars can be "kawaii", like "Figaro" by Nissan or some other small cars like the Fiat 500 etc.
> But it is true that . One speaks now about a whole "kawaii" culture, most of it deriving from mangas ...


--
They are throwing "baka" around left and right aswell.. I've heard that in other regions of Japan than Tokyo "Baka" can be very rude - and "aho" is more widely used when joking and such. 
While "aho" in Tokyo is more rude than 'baka' no?

Anyway: Kawaii, Kirei - no problem distinguishing for me there... 
But what about Kiree? To me it's more "beautiful" as a beautiful woman or a sunset.
Not "Kawaii" (cute) as a little pony or a loli dress/ whatever. 
Kiree does sound like a version of Kirei though - letters wise...?


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## Cowrie

Hi DeProfundisMorsVasCosumet, 

“Kiree” looks like an informal form of “kirei” to me (きれー). You probably thought it’s more beautiful because it was used with some emotion, I guess. 

I realize きれー is also an informal form of “kirai”, but this is not what we are talking about here....


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