# 我爸爸看上他了，昨天我跟他见的面



## yuechu

大家好，

I was recently reading the novel 北京青年 and had a question about the following dialogue:

唐娇：“。。。他是不是有个弟弟叫何西？”
权筝：“是，怎么？”
唐娇：“我爸爸看上他了，昨天我跟他见的面。"
[p. 32]

What is the function/meaning of 的 here? (昨天我跟他见的面）
Also, what does 看上 mean in this context?
Thanks/谢谢！


----------



## Skatinginbc

看上 = 看中 zhong4, 观察后感觉中意 to have special liking for or to fix on someone or something after making observations and comparison with other available choices.
我爸爸看上他了 My father sees him as the chosen one.

我跟他是昨天见的面 (见面 ==> 可指初次相见) It was yesterday that I (first) met him.==> The 的 is inserted between the verb (见) and the predicate/object (面) to signal a marked structure (therefore I translate it with a cleft sentence).  The emphasized element is usually the agent (施事者) or adverbial of time, place, or manner (表时间、地点、方式的狀語) that immediately precedes the verb phrase (见面).  In this case, the element immediately preceding the verb phrase (见的面) is 昨天.
我跟他(是)昨天见的面 = (是)昨天我跟他见的面 (transposition) ==> Although 他 becomes the element immediately preceding the verb phrase, it is neither the agent, nor an adverbial of time, place, or manner and thus cannot receive the emphasis.  So the emphasis falls on the topic (昨天).


----------



## yuechu

Thanks for your thorough explanation, Skatinginbc! I understand it a lot better now


----------



## Skatinginbc

別謝我, 其實我也看得莫名其妙.  搞不懂 「我爸爸看上他了」和「昨天我跟他见的面」的邏輯關聯， 摸不清作者到底想說什麼.


----------



## SuperXW

我倒觉得很真实、自然。看了小说应该就明白了。
生活中人们说话就是这样，东一句西一句的，想哪说哪，不同于写文章。
而且两人面对面交流，很多事不用说就知道了。比如“我爸爸看上他了，（就叫我去见他，）昨天我跟他见的面。”
看很多装逼的小说、歌词、漫画、电影就更是啦！看完都不知在说什么，只是觉得很厉害。


----------



## Skatinginbc

Did I make a wrong analysis in #2?  I'm afraid I'm back to square one and have the same question as Baosheng has: What exactly is the function/meaning of 的 here? (昨天我跟他见的面）

If the main idea of the whole passage is about 他 (in response to 怎么問起他来) and the speaker intends to say 昨天我就是跟他见的面 ("It was him that I met yesterday"), I don't think 就是 can be omitted without switching the focus to the topic 昨天.  To me, 就是 is  mandatory here.

If the main idea is about 是怎么認識他的 and the speaker intends to say "我爸爸看上他了, （要我去见他）, (所以)昨天我就跟他见了面", I don't see how a marked structure (昨天我跟他见的面) can work here without losing cohesiveness of the discourse. 

To me, 昨天我跟他见的面 answers 何時, not 怎么 (干什么, 如何).


----------



## kcip

I think this usage of '的' is quite colloquial and informal. '见面' is the combination of a verb(见) and its object(面), so there can be a '的' between them, indicating that the emphasis of the sentence is a part before the verb (here, the emphasis may be '昨天').
Another example: 我们在食堂吃的饭。('吃饭': a verb(吃) + its object(饭). The emphasis is '在食堂'.)
If it's too hard to understand, you may just ignore '的'.


----------



## brofeelgood

I looked up the novel (again ). 

I would have written it as: 我爸爸看上他了.我昨天(还)跟他见了面.


----------



## Skatinginbc

brofeelgood said:


> 我爸爸看上他了.我昨天(还)跟他见了面.


Now, that is the Chinese language that I'm able to follow!  The thoughts are coherent--about his relevance to 我 (in response to 你怎么問起他来), unlike the original text in which the first sentence is about 我爸爸 and the second about 昨天.


----------



## SuperXW

如果现实中每个人说话都这么严谨，那就不是现实了……
如果小说中每个人说话都这么严谨，那小说……反正我估计我是看不下去……

以下是小说原文：
_“可能是别人给他出的主意，就想逼你跟他分手呗。哎，他是不是有个弟弟叫何西？”
“是，怎么？”
“我爸爸看上他了，昨天我跟他见的面。”
权筝一脸吃惊地看着丁香：“咱俩妯娌了？”
“别介呀，我就没看上他。”_

如果谁说看不懂中间那句话，或者认为有必要修改，恕我得罪了：要么就是对当地语言文化特色了解不足，要么就是文学欣赏水平太有局限性。


----------



## brofeelgood

SuperXW said:


> 如果谁说看不懂中间那句话，或者认为有必要修改，恕我得罪了：要么*就是对当地语言文化特色了解不足*，要么就是文学欣赏水平太有局限性。



正是如此. 不是看不懂背后的意思,只是觉得语法跟自己学过的有出入,所以想弄个明白. 这毕竟是一本关于北京和北京人的小说(看书名猜的),所以想弄清楚这一类句子结构,是否属于北京人(或甚至北方人)独有的语言特色而已.


----------



## SuperXW

brofeelgood said:


> 正是如此. 不是看不懂背后的意思,只是觉得语法跟自己学过的有出入,所以想弄个明白. 这毕竟是一本关于北京和北京人的小说(看书名猜的),所以想弄清楚这一类句子结构,是否属于北京人(或甚至北方人)独有的语言特色而已.


每个地区，每个人，肯定都有自己的语言特点。这句话的句意和句式，我觉得绝大多数的中国读者都不会感到有问题，结合上下文读，相当自然，专业功底那么深厚的你们却反而有问题了……
_“可能是别人给他出的主意，就想逼你跟他分手呗。哎，他是不是有个弟弟叫何西？（重点问题）”
“是，怎么？”
“我爸爸看上他了（交待前因），昨天我跟他见的面（=我跟他见面了，是昨天见的。）（重点问题的follow-up）。”_

如果这句都需要大费周章去质疑，那么是不是以下蓝字都更值得讨论？那这书甭看了，咱以后也别“北京青年”了，全球强制统一标准汉语算了，不然得累死……
_“可能是别人给他出的主意，就想逼你跟他分手呗（缺主语？）。哎，他是不是有个弟弟叫何西？”
“是，怎么？”
“我爸爸看上他了，昨天我跟他见的面。”
权筝一脸吃惊地看着丁香：“咱俩妯娌了？（缺“是”？“妯娌”的意思？与上句逻辑关系？）”
“别介呀，我就没看上他。”（“别介”的意思？）_


----------



## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> 结合上下文读，相当自然，


不, 我覺得讀得很辛苦. 不像幼時讀西遊記和金庸武俠小說, 雖未事先知道故事情節, 我也能速讀跳句, 輕易抓住重點.  同樣的速讀習慣用在“北京青年”上, 我的結果是不知所云.


----------



## brofeelgood

毋躁毋躁.楼主发这道帖子,是想理解句子里"的"的用法和作用.大家一番的质问也仅仅是为了消歧义,解除疑问而已.不是鸡蛋里挑骨头,也不是对语法抱着迂腐的执着,只是好奇这种形态结构的特征和使用率,所以才跟常规的做了比较来求证.再说,这论坛是一个让来自四面八方的朋友学习和讨论标准汉语的平台,我觉得这对他们(包括我)也有帮助.就如我阅读古诗文一样,有译文参照的话,领悟过程也肯定事半功倍.


----------



## Skatinginbc

baosheng said:


> What is the function/meaning of 的 here? (昨天我跟他见的面）


I think "的" here means the same as the one in 花是紅的.
花, 是紅的 The flowers are red ==> 是紅的, 花 (They) are red, the flowers
票, 是昨天買的 The ticket was bought yesterday  ==> 是昨天買的, 票 (It) was bought yesterday, the ticket
人, 是我打的 The person was beaten by me ==> 是我打的人 (It) was me that beat the person.
面, 是昨天我跟他见的 The meeting was yesterday that I had with him (= The meeting I had with him was yesterday) ==> (是)昨天我跟他见的面 (It) was yesterday that I met with him.
肉, 我是从月盛斋买的 ==> 我是从月盛斋买的肉 (It) was from Yueshengzhai that I bought the meat.
火, 這幾天我是靠吃冰棍消的 ==> 這幾天我是靠吃冰棍消的火 (It) was eating popsicles that I've resorted to, to cool myself down these days.


----------

