# women's servant/slave



## ameneceo

Hi everybody,

I´m glad to take part in this forum. A little bit spicy this question, nice for the beginning of the weekend. I'm looking for a tattoo with the terms "women's servant" (servant for women) or "women's slave" (slave for women) in latin that is going to share a Roman motif.

Please could you translate those terms into Latin?

Thanks a lot.

Best regards.


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## ameneceo

Hi,

could it be "mulierum famulus"? Is that the right place for both words? Is that right using the genitive mulierum?

Thanks again.

Bests regards.


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## Scholiast

Hola, ameneceo

I have some suggestions, but am holding off for the moment, because I seem for the last few days to be hogging all the replies. < ---- > 

Spicy(?) - no problem. Ancient poetry has plenty of that.

Σ


< ---- > Comment removed.  
Cagey moderator


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## wtrmute

I'd use _fēminārum_ rather than _mulierum_, since sometimes _mulier_ can be used to oppose _virgo_ as a "full woman" (i.e., one who has had sex).  I do agree that the original (and perhaps the most usual) sense is more general than that, matching the range of senses we ascribe to "woman" in English.

Also, if you are going to go with _famulus_ for "servant", possibly _fēminārum famulus_ might have some Added Alliterative Appeal


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## ameneceo

Hi wtrmute and thanks for your answer. Sorry I hadn't seen it before.

I'd like you to widely explain what is that sense about mulier as full woman. And I'd also like to ask you for what you consider it would be another right possibility for famulus.

And you're right about the alliterative appeal, but this is going to be written and I don't know if pronounced (LOL).

Thank you again.

Regards.


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## Joca

I may be wrong, but I would choose servus over famulus. *Feminarum servus.*

*Maybe* you could even say *feminae servus*, femina in the singular standing for a class.


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## ameneceo

Hi Joca and thanks for your quick answer.

Is there any difference between servus and famulus? Is there any obvious connotation?

Thank you again.

Bests.


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## Joca

Another possibility is to put it all in a full sentence, that is, with a verb:

*Sum feminis servus. *I am a slave for (the) women. Feminis is the dative plural.


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## Joca

Hi ameneceo

Servus and famulus are said to be synonyms, but there must be a legal distinction between them. As far as I know, the word family comes from famulus, so famulus refers to the household. Servus is probably a more general word and to me it appears to be more common. 

Anyway, I am afraid you will have to wait for the counsel from more knowledgeable Latinists on this forum.


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## ameneceo

Thanks again, Joca.

Dative is because Feminis is the indirect object? As we were talking in the previous posts, in that case we have to use genitive. Is this right?

Regards.


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## Joca

I am a slave for the women. The underlined part is dative.


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## ameneceo

Thank you. And I also could use dative singular (Sum feminae servus), femina in the singular standing for a class, couldn't I?

Bests.


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## Joca

Yes, I think so, but please wait for better advice. Best to you too.


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## wtrmute

I know four words to mean "slave": _servus/serva_, _famulus/famula_, _ancus/ancilla_ and _mancipium_.  Of these, the usual words to denote slaves, that is to say, humans who are legally owned by others, are _servus_ and _ancilla_. _Serva_ is ante-classical and _ancus_ is almost pre-Republican.  _Mancipium_ is properly the legal formal purchase of a thing, and by extension the right of property extending from that purchase; so I would translate it as "possession", like _Tiro Ciceronis mancipium est_ becomes "Tiro is Cicero's possession".

Finally, _famulus_ and _famula_ are, as Joca mentioned, linked to _familia_, which is a broader concept in Roman culture than in the modern West.  In that sense, _familia_ is more like "household", including both relatives and servants who depend economically upon the master of the house.  _Famuli_ are, thus, those servants who were usually slaves, but might be freemen in a client relationship with the master of the house.  Lewis and Short have "a servant, attendant; a maid-servant, handmaid (class)".

As for _mulier_ as a full woman, it's in the same sense as Spanish _mujer_ in a phrase like "No es más una chica; ya se hizo _mujer_"; that is, has sexual experience, and isn't a virgin.  Typically is married.  However, if you _really_ want to use _mulier_, it's not exactly wrong to use it, it's just a somewhat unusual phrasing.


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