# politics and astrology



## almostfreebird

I've read an article a few years ago in Japanese magazine that said Nancy Reagan(the widow of Ronald Reagan) was very much into astrology and advising his husband on political stuff, is it true?


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## maxiogee

I believe so. Why do you ask?


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## emma42

I also believe it's true that was reported.  In England, Ronald Reagan was portrayed as a figure of fun at lot of the time - his former career as a "B" film actor was often mentioned, so I don't know whether the "astrology" accusations were simply part of that figure of fun depiction.  

Of course, some of his policies (supported by his ally, the charming Mrs Thatcher) were not "fun" at all for many.

I don't know anything more about it, almostfreebird.


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## cuchuflete

There are rumors—unsubstantiated at this time—that a certain George W. B. has employed astrologers to help him find elusive weapons of mass destruction.  

*politics,*

_a pseudoscience claiming divination by the positions of the planets and sun and moon_

*astrology*, 

_the profession devoted to governing and to political affairs_

Or, is it the other way around?


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## emma42

I do hope it's true.  It'll make a nice change (if not qualitatively improved) from his looking up his arse for answers.


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## don maico

emma42 said:


> I do hope it's true.  It'll make a nice change (if not qualitatively improved) from his looking up his arse for answers.



Now now


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## Fleurs263

Apparently George Bush was born on july 6th 1946 and that makes him a cancer, oops ... sorry that makes his star sign cancer. According to "The Secret Language of Birthdays" by Gary Goldschneider and Joost Elffers, he belongs to the cantegory of "Cancer II" personalities. The Cancer II personality : "Cancer II  people are not always what they seem to be. Whether they present a "normal" image or not, one  can be fairly sure that an unusual, even bizarre, fantasy life lurks just below the surface.  Perhaps because those born in Cancer II  are in touch with their subconscious, the weird and the strange are not necessarily so weird and strange to them...." Oh dear!  
I feel compulsed to check out Ronald Reagan's personality now ...


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## AngelEyes

Almostfreebird:

The name of Reagan's astrologer was Joan Quigley. She wrote a book about her experiences with the president called, "What Does Joan Say?" Before her, they consulted with Sydney Omarr for many years.

And Mods, I respectfully request you remove the highly insulting "arse" post. I think it goes way beyond any feeble attempts at humor, and it totally lacks any civility and respect for our country's leader. 

I hope you'll agree it's way over the line. 

AngelEyes


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## .   1

emma42 said:


> I do hope it's true. It'll make a nice change (if not qualitatively improved) from his looking up his arse for answers.


It would certainly explain some weird decisions.



AngelEyes said:


> And Mods, I respectfully request you remove the highly insulting "arse" post. I think it goes way beyond any feeble attempts at humor, and it totally lacks any civility and respect for our country's leader.


In a democracy civility and respect are earned not imposed by sanctions.  I do not think that it was the height of intellectual insight but this is a thread about the concept of astrology influencing the running the world and I do not think that a person is exempt from such comments no matter what position they occupy.  Dubya may be the President of a country but he is not my President.

.,,


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## almostfreebird

I've read Robert A. Heinlein's _Stranger in a Strange Land_.(in fact half of it, I will read the rest of it someday); in that, the wife of the Secretary-General of the UN is an astrologer, she keeps her husband under her thumb.(forgive me if I'm wrong). I don't know astrologers personally but I've seen ones on TV and in some magazine and I have an impression that they're always women. I wonder if there are male astrologers(professional and famous).


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## emma42

There are lots of professional male astrologers in England, almostfreebird.


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## AngelEyes

almostfreebird said:


> I've read an article a few years ago in Japanese magazine that said Nancy Reagan(the widow of Ronald Reagan) was very much into astrology and advising his husband on political stuff, is it true?


 
I don't know if this is allowed, but I will post this link because it's very informative. If it's deleted, please PM and I'll send it to you in private. 

http://www.presidentialufo.com/sydney_omarr,_reagan,_and_astrology.htm

One of the most interesting aspects of Reagan and astrology is that Joan Quigley was very instrumental in changing Reagan's attutude toward Gorbachev...in that he, at first, balked at forming any kind of friendship with the man. She did both their charts and suggested there would be a very positive friendship that could grow between them. The stakes were very high because of their positions in our world. If they could become allies and not enemies, the possibilities and political results could benefit us all.

President Reagan took her advice and the rest is history.


AngelEyes


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## Fleurs263

Personally, if we weren't referring to Georgie Porgie, I'd have to say I'd admire anyone who could look up their own arse  ..kinda bendy sort of yoga thing going on there, innit? 
Any idea where Tony Blair gets his political ideas from?
Oh and by the way if anyone's interested, Ronald Reagan had an Aquarius II personality and apparently  "....riding the bicycle of life with "no hands" is an Aquarian II speciality." Now that might explain a few things ... maybe there's something in this astrology ... what if his advisors had kept his stabilisers on?

Quoted from: "The Secret Language of Birthdays" by Gary Goldschneider and Joost Elffers.


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## cuchuflete

The US national debt hit a 47 year low as Pres. Reagan was taking office.  During his tenure, it skyrocketed to previously unheard of levels.  I suppose his astrological advisers told him to abandon "Conservative" principles and massively increase debt.  Maybe the stargazers were closet lefties?


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## AngelEyes

emma42 said:


> I do hope it's true. It'll make a nice change (if not qualitatively improved) from his looking up his arse for answers.


 

If this isn't deemed a "personal attack" I don't know what is.

Therefore, I again request that the Moderators here remove it.

Unless someone can tie Astrology, President Bush, and his ARSE together in an intellectual discussion that's theoretical and sincere, it doesn't belong here and you all know it.



AngelEyes


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## AngelEyes

You know what? Forget my above post. I just saw what's been added since I wrote it.

Mods:

Keep all of this. 

Everyone in the world should read what's being written here.


AngelEyes


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## Fleurs263

Tony Blair has a Taurus II personality and the advice given in the aforementioned "The Secret Language of Birthdays" (Gary Goldschneider and Joost Ellffers) is: "Seek to be more affectionate and playful.  Beware of strident, dogmatic or inflexible attitudes.  Remember that others have gifts to teach also .......Set a good example by admitting your mistakes. Rework and revise your ideas periodically."  
Another Taurus II notable: Niccolo Machiavelli.


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## emma42

Fleurs, everyone knows that Tony Blair gets his political ideas from whoever is in the Oval Office at the time.  

There have been no reports of his taking astrological advice thus far, unless anyone knows otherwise?

Edit:  I have just read your last post, Fleurs.  The thought of Tony becoming "more affectionate and playful" makes me long for Ted Heath.  There were no reports of his taking astrological advice either, but he was a dark horse.


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## Fleurs263

Emma 42 ... yeah, it kinda made me feel a little queasy ... It also says (in aforementioned book)  "No matter what their walk of life  ... those born in this period of time have a message to share. Therefore it is extremely important that they have someone who wishes to listen.  The size of their  audience may range from a single intimate to an audience of thousands ....." (Imagine being that one poor soul..)
 "... they tend to impact heavilly on the lives of others .... Unfortunately Taurus II's may over time become too didactic and convinced of their own infallibility." (Whoah! this is gooood!)
"The life of a Taurus II may be a lonely one since those born in this period have a dual need to lead others but also to maintain some distance between themselves and society." (I'm thinking a couple of elves, makeshift firework rocket and Jupiter ... but is it that still too close a distance?)


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## emma42

Still too close.  Uranus? (BE pronunciation).

Are all politicians Taurus IIs, then?


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## Fleurs263

Well Bill Clinton is a Leo-Virgo personality (again from aforementioned book) ..... "Both sexes reevaluate their marriages or ongoing relationships, and wish to bring hidden matters out in the open for discussion."


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## emma42

What's Thatcher?


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## Fleurs263

Well apart from bonkers, the said book states her birthday would make her a Libra III personality.  And unfortunately there  seems to be some discrepancy, as it states "... their approach to achieving success is usually more of the persistent rather than the ruthless variety."  
I guess there's always got to be an exception and I can't bring myself to be impartial enough to quote anything else.  But let's be honest, it's universally accepted throughout the known galaxies and beyond that she wasn't very nice to a lot of people!


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## cuchuflete

Here is a reference that may explain the role of astrology in British politics, which is one of my favorite spectator sports.



> The Romans ruled in Britain for approximately                     350 years and _it is inconceivable to imagine that their concern                     both for *astrology* and for planetary worship had no lasting                     effect on the native peasant population_ of the country, as well                     as on those scholarly traditions which survived the intellectual                     decline of the subsequent centuries.


 source


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## Fleurs263

Hi cuchuflete ... any idea what those "scholarly traditions" are?


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## Sallyb36

Fleurs263 said:


> *Well apart from bonkers*, the said book states her birthday would make her a Libra III personality.  And unfortunately there  seems to be some discrepancy, as it states "... their approach to achieving success is usually more of the persistent rather than the ruthless variety."
> I guess there's always got to be an exception and I can't bring myself to be impartial enough to quote anything else.  But let's be honest, it's universally accepted throughout the known galaxies and beyond that she wasn't very nice to a lot of people!



That made me laugh out loud, thank you   she was persistently ruthless!!


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## emma42

Thank you for the reference, Cuchuflete.  "Intellectual decline", eh?   I shall think about that as I gaze at the stars, drinking my Starbucks and refusing to go to MacDonalds.


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## maxiogee

emma42 said:


> There are lots of professional male astrologers in England, almostfreebird.



And some of them look almost sane!


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## ElaineG

Well, which one of you has the charts and the tea leaves to tell me how today's elections are going to go down?  I don't have the patience to wait until tonight.


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## emma42

Elaine, I predict...............that you'll elect lots of politicians!

It keeps happening here too.  Somebody should do something about it.


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## ElaineG

emma42 said:


> Elaine, I predict...............that you'll elect lots of politicians!
> 
> It keeps happening here too. Somebody should do something about it.


 
Thanks Em!  How much do I owe you for that?  (And I know, I know, if I offer you $20 more for the "extra in-depth" reading, you'll tell me that "some will win and some will lose."  Is that right?)


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## emma42

Not at all, Elaine.  I charge $500 an hour (half what you charge, I'll wager!) and I'll tell you anything you like.


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## Cracker Jack

almostfreebird said:


> I've read an article a few years ago in Japanese magazine that said Nancy Reagan(the widow of Ronald Reagan) was very much into astrology and advising his husband on political stuff, is it true?


 
I'd like to inject my 2 cent worth. Someone once made an analogy (I am not very sure but I strongly believe that it was either St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Augustine, two of the theological biggies) about how behavior and conduct of identical twins who were born on the same day. In spite of the fact that they share a birthdate and supposedly influenced by the same stars and similar other celestial events, they mature as distinct and separate individuals with divergent opinions. One may end up a hooligan while the other a monk.

Short of saying hokum stuff, astrology has surprisingly influenced many, especially those who are given up to zodiac columns and horoscopes. I just don't know if our buddy Dubya is very much in to them, but considering the effect of his decisions to the rest of mankind, it would not be wise if he also indulge in chance and circumstances rather than cause and effect, right?

But I just don't know how well he likes the decisions of global consequences he has made. If ever he may have his misgiving, he will have to put up a brave and unflinching front, otherwise he would not have been sculpted for the mold he is in right now. However, his assumption to power and the Sunshine State circumstances, as his monicker suggests is really a Dubya.


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## maxiogee

Cracker Jack said:


> I'd like to inject my 2 cent worth.  Someone once made an analogy (I am not very sure but I strongly believe that it was either St. Thomas Aquinas
> or St. Augustine, two of theological biggies) about how behavior and conduct of identical twins who were born on the same day.  In spit of the fact that they share a birthdate supposedly influenced by the same stars and similar other celestial events, they mature as distinct and separate individuals with divergent opinions.  One may end up a hooligan while the other a monk.



And _that_ would prove astrology to be a load of bunk? Ought we not be told what their horoscopes actually said? I'm not so sure that they would be so particular as to say "this child will become a monk" - do they not tend to speak of potential and the taking of chances offered. One could be a successful hooligan, and another could be a very dreadful monk.

Whichever of the two theologians you named was the one, they doubtlessly believed that the reason one of two twins died a painful death at a young age while the other died in comfort in his sleep after a long and rich life, was down to not enough prayers to, or insufficient faith in, a mystical deity who takes a personal interest in the affairs of everyone's life. What's more improbable, the theologian's God or the influence of the spheres?


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## emma42

Devil's advocate.


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