# Graveyard inscription help: 'ambo pares virtute, pares et honoribus ambo'



## cjamcmahon

Hello Wordreference Forum

I'm looking for a little help in translating a graveyard inscription of ancestors of mine. It's from 18th century Ireland, to the memory of two brothers, both bishops, erected by their surviving younger brother.

There was an elder brother, who is not mentioned here at all, likely because he converted to Protestantism - this being during the era of the Penal Laws.

I get the general gist of it, but it's the final line in particular that I'd like help with. I have two sons of my own now, and I would like to use this in reference to them, if appropriate.


_Hic jacent Bernardus et Rochus MacMahon fratres germani uterque successive Episcopus Clogherensis, uterque etiam successive Archiep. Armacanus, totius Hiberniae Primates. Quorum nobilissimi generis memor pietas atque aemula doctrina vitaque titulis non impar maerentem patriam decoravere. Bernardus obiit die 27 Mai, 1747, aetat. 67 ; Rochus die 29 Oct., 1748, aetat. 49. Ambo pares virtute, pares et honoribus ambo. _


'Both are equally the power of the states, are equal, and the honors of both of them.' - does that make sense? 


many thanks!


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## Scholiast

salvete amici (and welcome cjamcmahon to the Latin Forum)

I think I can do this, or most of it.

Here lie Bernard and [Rochus—not sure what this translates or transliterates to in Irish English or Erse, but by origin it looks Germanic], twin brothers, and each in turn Bishop of Clochagh and Archbishop of Armagh, Primates of All Ireland. Dutiful Memory, and Learning to match, and Life not unfitting to the tributes, have ornamented their grieving fatherland. Bernard died at the age of 67, on 27th May, 1747 [Rochus] on 28th Oct. 1748. They were equal, both, equal in merit and in honours equal.​
Does this help?

Σ


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## cjamcmahon

Scholiast said:


> salvete amici (and welcome cjamcmahon to the Latin Forum)
> 
> I think I can do this, or most of it.
> 
> Here lie Bernard and [Rochus—not sure what this translates or transliterates to in Irish English or Erse, but by origin it looks Germanic], twin brothers, and each in turn Bishop of Clochagh and of Armagh, Primates of All Ireland. Dutiful Memory, and Learning to match, and Life not unfitting to the tributes, have ornamented their grieving fatherland. Bernard died at the age of 67, on 27th May, 1747 [Rochus] on 28th Oct. 1748. They were equal, both, equal in merit and in honours equal.​
> Does this help?
> 
> Σ





wow. that's brilliant, thank you very much! your translation of the last line makes a lot more sense than what I was piecing together from Google Translate!

From the rest of the history, I believe Rochus was Rossa, fwiw. But then lots of names went into and out of Irish, English and Latin during this era so who knows what he was actually called.

_BUT_ - does it really say 'twin brothers'??? I'm pretty sure they actually weren't twins but presumably that's a turn of phrase? 
 The reason I ask is that my sons are twins, and are the first in living memory in our family. Would be quite a find!


many thanks again!


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## Scholiast

cjmacmahon et collucrubantibus aliis Scholiasta s. p. d.

Never try 'Google translate'. It is utterly useless for inflected languages such as Latin.

In late Latin, cjmcmahon is right, _germani fratres_ can mean simply 'sons of the same mother', rather than 'twins'. 

As a Scot, I always root for Ireland at rugby, except at Murrayfield.

Σ


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## bearded

A marginal remark:
I'm sure that lovers of the Latin language will notice that the last phrase in the inscription ('ambo pares virtute, pares et honoribus ambo') is a well-shaped, graceful hexameter.


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## Scholiast

Heus!


bearded said:


> the last phrase in the inscription ('ambo pares virtute, pares et honoribus ambo') is a well-shaped, graceful hexameter.


Well spotted, bearded. My brain must have been out to lunch when I first read the primary text.
In the context I would surmise that this is a motto subscribed on the gravestone beneath the rest of the inscription; maybe the OP can confirm this (or even better, supply a photo?).

And I should have added to my previous note: _germani_ (born of the same parent) does not equal _gemini_ (which are twins). Sorry, cjmcmahon, that was my idiotic confusion in my first reply, dashed off late at night.

Σ

(Edited post-posting)


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## fdb

It is also here, note 5:

MacMahon (No.1) family genealogy - Irish Pedigrees


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## fdb

One of them died in 1747 at the age of 67, the other in 1748 at the age of 49, so they were clearly not twins.


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## Scholiast

Greetings again

Philologically and otherwise, fdb knows far more than I, so for the time being I shall shut up.

Σ


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