# trouser-legs, sleeves



## ThomasK

_[I hope our moderators allow me to have these two terms treated in one thread]_
My question about *garden-hoses* led me to the word '*pipe'*, or 'pijp' in Dutch, which can refer to a *trouser-leg* (*'broekspijp'*). However, for *'sleeve'*, we have an entirely different word, 'mouw', whereas one could say they both have the same function: they are hollow textile 'pipes' covering a member of the body. 


Any language where the same word is used ? Or which words do you use ? (Please explain their meaning, especially if they seem metaphorical)

I see that
-in English there is a reference to the member of the body (_trouser-*leg*_), -also in German ('*Ärm*el' for sleeve, 'small arm', literally, if I am not mistaken).


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## sakvaka

In *Finnish* the words are different: _lahje_ is the leg, _hiha_ is the sleeve. No metaphores this time.


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## bibax

Czech:

leg: *nohavice* derived from *noha* = leg/foot;
sleeve: *rukáv* derived from *ruka* = hand/arm (*rukavice* = glove);


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## Favara

Catalan
*Trouser-leg:* Camal (derived from "cama", meaning leg; pertaining or related to the leg)
*Sleeve:* Mànega / màniga (from Latin _manica_)


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## ThomasK

bibax said:


> Czech:
> 
> leg: *nohavice* derived from *noha* = leg/foot;
> sleeve: *rukáv* derived from *ruka* = hand/arm (*rukavice* = glove);


 
Interesting connection : _*sleeve // glove*_ (which we in Dutch call a 'hand-shoe' !), which makes me wonder: we never 'see' a link between an arm and a hand (if you understand what I mean). Are you suggesting that one word can mean both hand and arm? And does the suffix -_ice_ have a special meaning (as in _hadice_ ?)


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## bibax

> Are you suggesting that one word can mean both hand and arm?


In Czech (probably in other Slavic languages as well) *ruka* means the whole upper extremity. There is another word for arm (paže), shoulder (rameno, rámě) and palm (dlaň). Similarly *noha* means the whole lower extremity.



> And does the suffix -ice have a special meaning (as in hadice ?)


I think no. Czech is not an agglutinative language, the Czech suffixes mostly have no special meaning. The suffix -ice forms words of the feminine gender, thus it is convenient for the gender changing (slon = male elephant, slonice = female elephant). As for the inanimate things the suffixes of new terms are chosen rather at random, perhaps by analogy or euphony, the meaning must be established by using.


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## ThomasK

_Ruka/ noha_: interesting, never heard of this view of "man's body". Or are you referring to the members of the body (arms and legs) ? In that case indeed we have the same: 'arm' then "contains" all the parts of that member [extremity ???]. 

(-îce: would you have a masculine snake then ? A hada ? ;-) I must admit: cats, snakes, are also feminine with us, in Dutch, but maybe no longer for the Dutch).


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## bibax

*Ruka* contains all parts from the shoulder joint (ie. elbow, antebrachium, palm, etc.).
*Noha* contains all parts from the hip joint (ie. femur, knee, shin/shank, foot, etc.).

We commonly use the word *ruka* in various metaphoric expressions, like in "myji si ruce" = I am washing my hands _(Pilatus Pontius)_.


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## bibax

_Snake_ is *had* (masculine) in Czech. *Hadice* is a feminine noun, but it means _hose_ only, as we do not distinguish between male snake and female snake.


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## Tamar

Sleeve in Hebrew is שרוול _sharvul, _it apparenly comes from Persain where it was a kind of trousers (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=14652261&blogId=275341696# (under "pants and long coats") 

Trouser-leg is מכנס _mikhnas_. (Trousers in Hebrew are מכנסיים _mikhnasa'im_, which is a form of plural. nowadays _mikhans _is many times wrongfully used instead of _mikhnasa'im_). The root of those words is כ.נ.ס k-n-s (lehikanes = to go inside).




> *glove* (which we in Dutch call a 'hand-shoe' !)


That's funny! (lovely too  )


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## ThomasK

'To go inside' reminds me of 'pipe'; both sleeves and trouser-legs are hollow. Could that be the origin ? 

As for our glove word: oh yes, from time to time we are funny ! ;-)

At any rate: no link between both !


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## jazyk

In Portuguese:

perna da calça (lit. leg of the trousers) Not related to pipes.
manga (sleeve)

But as I wrote somewhere else, manga can also mean mango.


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## rusita preciosa

Russian:
trouser leg: *ш**танинa / бpючинa* [shtanina / brutchina] - a part of pants(штаны-shtany) / a part of trousers (бpюки-bruki)
 
sleeve: *рукaв* [rukav] - from the word рукa (hand/arm)
 
Like in Czech, рукa [ruka] is the whole extremity, from the shoulder to the fingertips and can mean arm or hand


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## Tamar

> 'To go inside' reminds me of 'pipe'; both sleeves and trouser-legs are hollow. Could that be the origin ?


No. Nothing to do with "pipe" here (just to remind you - "pipe" in Hebrew is root צ.נ.ר  ts-n-r, here we have root כ.נ.ס  k-n-s).


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## ThomasK

Mind you: 'pipe' may have different meanings, Tamar, not just the 'smoking instrument'... (I suddenly remember you referring to _tsinor_ in another context: water hose or something)


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## Tamar

> 'pipe' may have different meanings, Tamar, not just the 'smoking instrument'


I was thinking of its other meanings (actually, I wasn't thinking of a "smoking instrument" at all) and still in Hebrew - _tisnor_ and _mikhnasa'im _have nothing to do with one anther.


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## ThomasK

Don't worry, thanks for the all the contributions !


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## apmoy70

In Greek: 
Trouser-leg: Μπατζάκι, batz*a*ki, _n._, μπατζάκια/batz*a*ca in plural (from the Turkish _bacak_->leg, limb).
Sleeve: Μανίκι, man*i*ki, _n._, μανίκια/man*i*ca in plural (appears for the first time in medieval Byzantine Greek as μανίκιον-ma'nikion, _n._, diminutive of the latin _manica/manicae_, the long and wide sleeves of the magistrate's toga)


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## szal

In German:

- sleeve = *Ärmel*, as ThomasK already mentioned.  I am not aware if this derives from a diminutive for _Arm_, but if it does it’s a very South German one, as _-ele_, _-le_, _-la_ are the Mid-/High Franconian, Alemannic and Bavarian diminutive suffixes. 

- trouser-leg = *Hosenbein* (literal).

The _pipe_ in German is either _Pfeife_ (the whistle or the smoking instrument) or _Rohr_ (for leading fluids and/or gaseous materials through). And the _glove_, same as in Dutch, is a hand-shoe → _Handschuh_.


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## ThomasK

Just by the way: I was astonished about the different meanings of 'pijp' in Dutch, even in for example an organ and (of course ?) a (rain) drain. 

But we can no longer 'pijpen', whereas Germans still can (the referee at a game). I must add though: this 'pijpen' does occur in a sexual  meaning.


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## federicoft

In Italian:
sleeve: _manica_ (from Latin _manica_, derivative of _manus_, i.e. 'hand').

trouser-leg: _gamba_ (just the ordinary word for 'leg').


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## ThomasK

Interesting, this _manica, _when you explain it that way: normally the sleeve is not a glove, so one would not expect a sleeve to refer to the hand, but to the arm.


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## ThomasK

bibax said:


> Czech:
> 
> leg: *nohavice* derived from *noha* = leg/foot;
> sleeve: *rukáv* derived from *ruka* = hand/arm (*rukavice* = glove);


 
Now that reminded me of the above: _ruka_ is hand and arm ??? But then rukavice would be a mini-sleeve ? I mean: can -ice be explained some way ?


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## federicoft

ThomasK said:


> Interesting, this _manica, _when you explain it that way: normally the sleeve is not a glove, so one would not expect a sleeve to refer to the hand, but to the arm.



It seems a bit peculiar to me as well, unfortunately the sources I consulted don't give any explanation for that, they just cover the ethymological evolution of the word. 

The only comment I can make is that the sleeve extends from the shoulder up to the hand.


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## apmoy70

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> Trouser-leg: Μπατζάκι, batz*a*ki, _n._, μπατζάκια/batz*a*ca in plural (from the Turkish _bacak_->leg, limb).
> Sleeve: Μανίκι, man*i*ki, _n._, μανίκια/man*i*ca in plural (appears for the first time in medieval Byzantine Greek as μανίκιον-ma'nikion, _n._, diminutive of the latin _manica/manicae_, the long and wide sleeves of the magistrate's toga)


I'm sorry I have to quote myself, but I just realised, I forgot the third part of my answer (or as ancient Greeks would say: «oὐ γάρ ἔρχεται μόνον»-"old age doesn't come alone"  ):
Pipe (e.g. water-pipe) in Greek is _σωλήνας_ (sol*i*nas, _m._), from the ancient Greek «σωλήν» (sō'lēn, _m._) which stood for channel, gutter. So, no connection between the three.

PS: The smoking pipe on the other hand, in Greek, is «πίπα» (p*i*pa, _f._), probably from the Italian _pipa_


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## ThomasK

Funny thing that some language groups seem to see a link, and others don't. But that's the way it is.


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## Nizo

In *Esperanto*, the word for sleeve (of shirt, jacket, etc.) is *maniko*, which derives from the Latin word _manica_, itself coming from the Latin word _manus_ (hand).  The word for a trouser leg is *krurumo*, which comes from the Esperanto word _kruro_(leg).


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## Encolpius

In *Hungarian *we do not have any special word for legs and sleeves. 

trouser legs = nadrágszár (nadrág = trouser, szár = stem, stalk)

sleeves = ujj (i.e.: finger or toe)


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## ilocas2

Croatian:

trouser leg - *nogavica*
sleeve - *rukav*


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## Messquito

Chinese:
褲管(lit. pants-pipe)
袖子(sleeve)


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