# Indecente



## Paulfromitaly

Hello everybody,

In some contexts we use the word "indecente" to mean something different from indecent or filthy.

_Alcuni giornalisti italiani sono spesso* indecenti *(scrivono cose *indecenti*)*.

*_Here indecente means scandalous, extremely unprofessional, in bad faith, biased against a political party, a person, a football team.. in few words they've got the nerve to deny the truth and misrepresent the events as it suits them.
How would you translate it?
Cheers.


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## TimLA

Paulfromitaly said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> In some contexts we use the word "indecente" to mean something different from indecent or filthy.
> 
> _Alcuni giornalisti italiani sono spesso* indecenti *(scrivono cose *indecenti*)*.*_
> 
> Here indecente means scandalous, extremely unprofessional, in bad faith, biased against a political party, a person, a football team.. in few words they've got the nerve to deny the truth and misrepresent the events as it suits them.
> How would you translate it?
> Cheers.


 

Many ways: improper, outrageous, scandalous, unreasonable, unconscionable, and 1,000 more...

...ma più contesto ci aiuterebbe...


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## marquess

'inproprietous' is the closest I can think of right now.


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## Paulfromitaly

TimLA said:


> Many ways: improper, outrageous, scandalous, unreasonable, unconscionable, and 1,000 more...
> 
> ...ma più contesto ci aiuterebbe...


You know when you're reading an article or listening to a TV debate and you clearly feel the journalist is lying, being in bad faith?
When what they are claiming is so blatantly false, we say they are indecenti.



marquess said:


> 'inproprietous' is the closest I can think of right now.


Never heard this word before


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## pescara

How about "lacking journalistic integrity?"

Ciao.


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## Benzene

Hi Paul!

I would use:

"undignified, ignominious, shameful or dishonest."

Your comments are welcome!


Bye,

Benzene


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## pescara

Another possibility: "yellow journalism."  See the definition in Wikipedia.

Ciao.


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## marquess

Paulfromitaly said:


> You know when you're reading an article or listening to a TV debate and you clearly feel the journalist is lying, being in bad faith?
> When what they are claiming is so blatantly false, we say they are indecenti.
> 
> 
> Never heard this word before


 
maybe i'm thinking of 'improprietous'


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## Paulfromitaly

Benzene said:


> Hi Paul!
> 
> I would use:
> 
> "undignified, ignominious, shameful or dishonest."
> 
> Your comments are welcome!
> 
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Benzene



I like shameful  (that's exactly the idea I want to convey..)


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## Siberia

Hi Paul,
I'd use "obscene".


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## Paulfromitaly

Siberia said:


> Hi Paul,
> I'd use "obscene".


Interesting: I wasn't sure that in English obscene had also this meaning (just like in Italian, anyway).


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## Deeko1973

Hi Paul,

I don't think there is any particular common term used to describe the situation you are referring to. We usually just say they are lying or they are biased or they are twisting the facts to suit their argument. I'm sure there are plenty of more 'colourful' phrases used to describe certain reporters!

In the UK there are very strict laws on what reporters and newspaper companies are allowed to print in their newspapers, i.e. they can't just make up any old rubbish to suit their story - they have to base it on fact otherwise they could be taken to court for libel/defamation of character and/or misrepresenting justice and possibly fined or lose their job as a result of giving the newpaper a bad name etc.

I don't know if it's the same over there, but I can't think of an occassion where I have felt there was a 'sinister' or 'serious' undertone to what a particular journalist was saying. Apart from politicians obviously, who just lie for a living lol! I guess that's why I don't think there is a particular word to describe the situation you mention - it would be more common for people to just say they thought the reporter was a liar or unprofessional.

I'd be careful of using obscene.. although it can be used to mean that, it is far more frequently used to describe something that is 'offensively indecent' or 'extremely rude'.

Anyway... just my opinion! 

Cheers,

Derek


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## kittykate

Deeko1973 said:


> In the UK there are very strict laws on what reporters and newspaper companies are allowed to print in their newspapers, i.e. they can't just make up any old rubbish to suit their story - they have to base it on fact otherwise they could be taken to court for libel/defamation of character and/or misrepresenting justice and possibly fined or lose their job as a result of giving the newpaper a bad name etc.


 
That sounds like a _decent_ country 



> I can't think of an occasion where I have felt there was a 'sinister' or 'serious' undertone to what a particular journalist was saying.


 
Well, Deeko1973, then you should watch Italian TV more often... 

caterina


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## Deeko1973

Hehe... I lived in Italy for 1 year a few years ago... but I couldn't understand the tv - everyone spoke far too quickly for me!

Anyway... don't know about UK being a 'decent' country lol... I think most people would say that the younger generation in the UK leave a lot to be desired... I think there are better family values in Italy!

I guess this must be quite common in Italy then - having dodgy reporters/journalists?


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## Paulfromitaly

Deeko1973 said:


> I guess this must be quite common in Italy then - having dodgy reporters/journalists?



Unfortunately what Caterina said is true 
I believe that here in Italy journalists are easily blackmailed by their editors who are often fellows with politicians or are themselves politicians!
(Yes, it sounds unbelievable for a modern Western country, but our beloved prime minister owns 3 TV channels and a newspaper..)
Said that, let's forget about politics and go back to languages


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## charlievega

Dear Paulfromitaly,
I add
despicable
and
contemptible.
I perfectly know what you mean for "indecente". In Italian I would say also "disgustoso" that is also used in other context. But may be it works in your context :
disgusting
Saluti.
Charlievega


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## SoCalMezzo

I really think the most parallel word (in feeling) to "indecente" would be unethical.  "Unethical" does not have the same kind of emotional "punch" as something like "scandalous", but it is a serious (and often true) accusation.


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## Cassidy's Mom

This word may work for you: "_*sensationalistic".*_  The noun is _*sensationalism*._  This word is often used to describe bias in the media.  (However, please note that our media in the US, while sensationalistic, doesn't seem to be as "indecente" as the one you've described.)

Here is the link for it in Wikepedia.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensationalism

Ciao.


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## Angel.Aura

Siberia said:


> Hi Paul,
> I'd use "obscene".


I second Siberia.
I'd like to go back to the original question though.

Is the adjective _indecent_ acceptable in such a context to a native's ear?

Can you use _indecent_ when you have to define something morally unacceptable or offensive *and* when something is not suitable or correct for a situation?


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## SoCalMezzo

"Obscene" has sexual overtones, like you would use for pornography, so I'd be careful about using it to describe a reporter.


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## Paulfromitaly

The problem here is that when we say that journalists are indecenti, we (Italians) implicitly deduce or assume they are obscene, scandalous, unethical, outrageous, lacking journalistic integrity, untrustworthy and so on..
It's like we had gathered given all these meanings to a single adjective which, therefore, is hard to translate.


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## SoCalMezzo

So, does "indecente" convey all those meanings altogether?  Wow!   In that case, I agree, you really couldn't get at the meaning with just one good English word.


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## Paulfromitaly

SoCalMezzo said:


> So, does "indecente" convey all those meanings altogether?  Wow!   In that case, I agree, you really couldn't get at the meaning with just one good English word.


It does, when referred to journalists


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## happy-too

Whenever I hear the word "*indecent*," I have a mental image of a young girl with great legs and a nice bum wearing a mini-skirt which shows way too much of said body parts!   

However, in my humble opinion, it truly is a matter of context.  Just as in the situation you've described...where one is watching tv or listening to the radio and hears a journalist reporting blatant lies and/or twisting facts...to say: "Well that's just *indecent*!" would _probably_ work ok.  More commonly, however, here in the U.S., one might say:  "Well that's just obscene!"...."How ridiculous!"..."Totally ludicrous/blatantly untrue!"..."Can you believe the  #%$&  coming out of his mouth?"    All of which (senza dubbio) would be followed by a few nice, nasty adjectives to describe the crooked journalist.

Just my 2¢ worth....


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## Deeko1973

I'd be careful of using 'indecent' since, like 'obscene', it is used more often to describe a situation with sexual/rude overtones.

I think the best suggestions so far have been 'sensationalistic' and 'unethical'. 

'Sensationalistic' would suit a situation where a reporter was trying to blow something out of all proportion to suit his take on the story (and thereby sell more newspapers because of the outrageous story). There is no *assumed* sexual overtone with 'sensationalistic', unlike with 'obscene' or 'indecent'. 

'Unethical' introduces a more sinister/serious tone since it describes something/someone that is unprofessional due to their unscrupulous nature or due to their lack of basic moral principles.

I guess we have to remember the cultural differences between AE, BE and Italian speakers also... In my experience the Italian language is (and, without making any sweeping statements , the Italian people are) much more expressive and colourful than English and it may well be that an Italian person *would* describe the behaviour of the reporter as 'indecent', 'disgusting', 'obscene' etc... whereas a British person and possibly an American pereson would use more reserved language to describe them! So while our advice might suit what an English or American person would say, it might not be a true representation of the sentiment behind the Italian expression...

What do you think...?


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## Paulfromitaly

I believe you've just made a very good point here, Deeko1973: cultural differences do matter in this context, as we are more prone to use colourful expressions, although "indecente" is not one of them.
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that the English speakers who have contributed to this thread don't seem to agree about the use of "obscene", being it acceptable for some, yet to be avoided for others.


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## SoCalMezzo

I don't think there's any problem with actually *saying* the word obscene.  It's not an "obscene" word to say.    The only concern, to me, is being aware that the word has strong sexual overtones, and in a very negative way.  If that's what you mean (That's obscene!), then it is certainly fine to say so.


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## happy-too

Found in FREEDICTIONARY.com:

*ob·scene* _adj._ 

*1. *Offensive to accepted standards of decency or modesty.
*2. *Inciting lustful feelings; lewd.
*3. *Repulsive; disgusting: _"The way he writes about the disease that killed her is simply obscene"_ _Michael Korda._
*4. *So large in amount as to be objectionable or outrageous: _"local merchants in nearby stores get hammered by stratospheric rents and obscene taxes"_ _Joe Queenan._


1 & 2 = sexual
3 & 4 = non sexual

Just as you've all stated...it's all in the context.


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## Einstein

Humbert Wolfe, an Italian-born British writer, wrote the following epigram:

You cannot hope to bribe or twist, thank God! the British journalist. 
But, seeing what the man will do unbribed, there's no occasion to.


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## Deeko1973

Oh yeah - I didn't mean that that there was anything wrong with saying the word 'obscene'... Just like SoCalMezzo says - it is more commonly used to describe a situation with a strong sexual overtone. Obviously if that's what you mean to say then it's fine to say it!

Typical examples of its use: 'That's an obscene movie' - referring to one where there is a lot of sex scenes/nudity... or, 'did you see that dress she had on... it was obscene...' - referring to a dress that was too revealing (not meaning in their opinion - i.e. if they had quite tame fashion sense - but meaning it actually was showing parts that shouldn't be shown )

I think it really does depend on the context and the situation. If you were talking to me about a story in the newpaper and you said you thought the reporter was obscene I would find it a bit of a weird thing to say although I would understand what you meant. 

If you were literally saying that in your opinion you felt the reporter was obscene then I guess that's fine... it's your opinion and probably one shared by other Italian speakers but i don't think you would find the same opinion with the majority of English speakers!! 

It's all personal opinion really lol!


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## kythris

American seems very worried about every sexual allusion... I would say in Italian that a dress is "provocante", not obscene.

However, I do not know if this word "fits" the contest but what about "bullshit"? Excuse me but I do not know how rude is this word: I never use it but I heard it a lot referred to political ideas for instance...

Saluti!
SARA


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## Paulfromitaly

kythris said:


> American seems very worried about every sexual allusion... I would say in Italian that a dress is "provocante", not obscene.
> 
> However, I do not know if this word "fits" the contest but what about "bullshit"? Excuse me but I do not know how rude is this word: I never use it but I heard it a lot referred to political ideas for instance...
> 
> Saluti!
> SARA



You could say bullshitter, although it doesn't convey the same meaning.


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## ToscanoNYC

Io userei "shameless".  Mi pare che tra tutti gli aggettivi suggeriti sia quello che maggiormente si adatta alla situazione da te descritta.


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## Janey UK

I like 'obscene' or 'unethical' - I think they both pack a pretty strong punch...along with 'unprincipled', 'disreputable', 'underhand' or, simply, 'corrupt'.

Or, if you want something stronger, how about 'monstrous' or 'disgraceful' or 'opprobrious'?

Eg. "His conduct is monstrous!"


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## SoCalMezzo

No, Americans aren't "worried about every sexual allusion"...that's an unfair accusation, especially in the context of native speakers doing their best to try to help define a word for non-native speakers.  For my part, I am simply trying to distinguish the meaning of "obscene" from the other words discussed in this thread, and the distinction happens to be sexual.


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## happy-too

kythris said:


> American seems very worried about every sexual allusion... I would say in Italian that a dress is "provocante", not obscene.


 
I agree with SoCalMezzo that Americans are not incredibly worried or preoccupied with every sexual allusion.  The word "obscene" is the target of the discussion here.  Culturally...here in America...this word MORE OFTEN THAN  NOT is used in describing something sexual in nature.  

As far as your suggestion that "a dress is 'provocante', not obscene"...I am in agreement...DEPENDING ON THE DRESS.  If a dress is high-cut (i.e. mini) and/or has a low-cut neckline (showing cleavage [spazio tra i seni] and a bit of  breasts) then I would call this PROVOCATIVE....meaning that there is something left to the imaginations of those looking.   OBSCENE...on the other hand...is a dress or attire which leaves NOTHING to the imagination...i.e.  see-through blouse and no bra...mini-dress or skirt which shows all the legs and 1/2 the culo...etc.  There is an ENORMOUS difference between "provocative" and "obscene."


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## SoCalMezzo

Exactly.  So, unless you want to describe a reporter as wearing an outfit similar to the one Happy-too mentions, I wouldn't suggest calling him "obscene".


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## Janey UK

In England 'obscene' is often used in the non-sexual sense, to denote something that is morally indefensible.

The rates of child mortality in Africa are obscene!
The gap between the haves and the have-nots is just obscene!
The size of that cream cake is just obscene!

In fact, it seems to be a "buzz word" at the moment, and is used with increasing frequency in this context (at least in my opinion).


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## SoCalMezzo

Same in America, absolutely, in describing an issue, object, or event.  Doesn't work the same, though, in describing a person...for some reason, the meaning is then more likely to be sexual.  In England, does it work to use "obscene" to describe a person (not a person's actions), without it sounding sexual?


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## Siberia

I would use "obscene" to describe someone's actions rather than the person him/herself.
I'd say: What he is saying is obscene - in the sense that it's absolutely atrocious or abominable.
I could say, rather colloquially: He's so obscene -meaning absolutely disgusting with no sexual allusions. It *will *depend on the context.


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## Bookmom

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scurrilous


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## SoCalMezzo

Sounds good, thanks!


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## You little ripper!

I like the word *scurrilous* too but it tends to be used more in relation to what is written by the journalist or the newspaper, and not so much the journalist himself.


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## Arrabbiato

An adjective like "indecente" has no one translation; it depends entirely on context-it does not have to do with journalism, necessarily either.   For example, the mayor of Venice, in response to finding out that his "nemico" the former mayor Costa,  was recently appointed head of the port authority of Venice, responded "indecente"- I wasn't sure what that conveyed exactly, until I read this post-now I know that Mayor Cacciari is saying that it is "unconscionable" because he was so opposed to the appointment, and the governor of the Veneto went ahead and agreed with Rome, without taking Cacciari's opposition to the matter into account.


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