# Merde!



## nohams

Hi all,
I heard the word merde a lot by french people. when I looked it up, I found that it means 'serious trouble'. is that the right meaning or is it just a literal meaning? i mean in what context is that word said?

merci


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## babyburns

Merde! is like saying shit! in English. Literally it also does mean shit (as in faeces).


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## F/2.8

I wonder... slightly off topic perhaps ... do the French use 'merde!' to the obscene extent that English speakers appear to use 'shit!' ?


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## babyburns

probably, although they do say "Zut!" as well, which is much less rude than Merde. From my personal experience I think the English use Shit more than the French use Merde...


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## Ludito

People would use "zut" (polite) , "merde", "putain" (rude but used)


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## TooHeavy

Let's not forget 'saperlipopette' = 'goodness me' if you want to be very polite and even prudish...


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## LV4-26

What an attractive title for a thread! (and I really mean it ). Especially with the exclamation mark.
Just like its English equivalent, it is said as an expression of annoyance. When used that way, it's never connected to its literal meaning. I think it is used by almost everybody but, of course, not *with* everybody. 

Is it more or less popular than _shit_ in English? Well, I'll give you a hint : English speakers have their own four-letter word (which is *not* that one). _Merde_, in French, is often referred to as the "five-letter word".


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## giannid

Well in american english you can say _shit_ instead of _stuff_:

I've got some shit to do.

It was all hot and shit.


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## melancolique

> Well in american english you can say _shit_ instead of _stuff_:
> 
> I've got some shit to do.
> 
> It was all hot and shit.


 
Is that used in french as well?  If not _merde_, an equivalent?

I've never heard "et merde".....


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## Cath.S.

melancolique said:
			
		

> Is that used in french as well? If not _merde_, an equivalent?


_Merde_ is not used that way.

In certain contexts, some people will say _conneries_ not in its usual sense of bullshit but to mean (fairly unimportant) _stuff_.

_Qu'est-ce que tu as acheté au marché ? What did you buy on the market?_
_Oh, des conneries... oh, stuff..._

Way more polite but still colloquial,_ des trucs._


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## radjane dessama

While the English _shit_ still retains its original meaning, the French _merde_ is almost exclusively used in its figurative sense.  
While the product would still be called (crudely) _shit_ in English, the French would (crudely) say _crotte_, not _merde_


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## unefemme1

Wait, the word _shit_ is a rude swear word in the English speaking world, and is equivilant to _merde_, which would make _merde_ a rather rude word to say in public, oui? Therefore, if _zut_ is more polite, is that like saying "damn/damnit" in English? Just wanting to get my facts right before I say the wrong thing...
And what does _putain_ mean? Is that another French word for _shit_?


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## radjane dessama

No, _zut_ is much more polite than _damn_ which, even half a century ago, was a prohibited word. _Zut_ on the contrary, expresses mild irritation or exasperation
_putain_ is, in every sense of the word, _bitch _in English


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## LV4-26

radjane dessama said:
			
		

> _putain_ is, in every sense of the word, _bitch _in English


Oh no, literally,_ putain_ is _whore_
And _a_ _bitch_ is _une_ _chienne_ (literally and sometimes figuratively).


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## SeFu

I am not sure, but i play online on a french server (in Paris) and speak with french players to help me learn french.

So far what I have learned from them is that:
_Putain =_ is like dropping an _F-bomb, _even though its literally Whore. 
_Merde = Shit,_ 
and 
_Zut! = "Shoot"_ (Polite form of frustration)


While this subject is ongoing, I found it interesting when one of the Frenchman said to me "Bullshit" after I was telling him a story. I thought he was calling me a liar, because in english (American at least, I assume British as well) "Bullshit" is used in two ways.
Bullshit! = "I dont believe you, you are lying"
This is Bullshit = "this is rdiculous, or, I can't believe I have to do this"

Whereas apparently, in France, the term is used as a substitute for the F-Bomb.


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## babyburns

radjane dessama said:
			
		

> _putain_ is, in every sense of the word, _bitch _in English


 
Putain is worse than bitch, Putain is actually Whore in English!


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## balaam

you must understand that for frenchspeakers all that words are just a way to give strengh to the meaning. lot of mediterranean-frenchmen used "putain!" and "ta mère !" in each and every sentence. but suggested that "ta mère est une putain" is a major insult that started a riot or two.

use "merde !" as you would of an onomatopea indicating irritation or surprise.

the original sens appear when used as object : "attend, j'ai une merde" "on est dans la merde !"

parents and professors know it to be inappropriate and try to correct the childrens' talks (well, sort of...). but nobody today would be upset by the scatologic (under)meaning.


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## balaam

putain is more often use as bloody... than whore

putain de camion (bloody truck) is a song of Renaud about the death of Coluche, the greatest french humorist

putain de merde ! is the surprise expression you'd drop when catch between a CIA-KGB firefight

putain, il était là ! je te jure ! is typically what would say some juv having lost something important for his gang.

no need to say, putain is rarely, if even, used in work place


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## franchi

_Saperlipopette_! This discussion is fascinating. Here is my 2-cents worth:

I have been watching a lot of American movies dubbed in French (a great feature on DVDs). Very often the so-called F*bomb is translated _Putain_. So I suppose the French also use that word as they do _Merde_, as an expression of frustration (equivalent to the English usage of S**t and F*** in the same way). C'est vrai ou non?


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## Chaska Ñawi

I've never heard a franco-canadien using "Zut!" .... but "Merde!" appears about as commonly as its English equivalent in Canada.  It used to rank about halfway between _tabernac _and _tabernouche_ and was used more as an exclamation than as an all-purpose filler.

That said, I spent four days in Quebec and francophone New Brunswick this summer and heard none of the above.


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## franchi

My understanding of Merde is that it is more acceptable among French-speaking people than Shit is among English speakers, at least somewhat. Sort of like Damn in English, not always acceptable, but much more acceptable than shit. 

What raises an eyebrow (to me) are the comments that the F-word is much more common. What is a little alarming is the ease with which that fact is accepted. I suppose I am being a prude, and I am not that old, but I still find the F word in public to be *extremely* rude.


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## balaam

I used to think like this until I discovered how americans use "cunt".


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## Jean-Louis

In reply to this I posted a link to Le Trésor de la Langue Française where one can find many examples of the use of this (and other) words. My answer has been deleted, so I suppose I broke rule n°8 although this is not a commercial site. Anyway I apologize


Moderator note: link added for Jean-Louis. 

http://atilf.atilf.fr


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## Cath.S.

radjane dessama said:
			
		

> While the English _shit_ still retains its original meaning, the French _merde_ is almost exclusively used in its figurative sense.
> While the product would still be called (crudely) _shit_ in English, the French would (crudely) say _crotte_, not _merde_


I disagree. _Crotte _is not crude (love the alliteration )
Lots of us call faeces _merde_ on an everyday basis.
_Crotte_ is _mainly_ for little old ladies.
When talking to children, or when we want to pointedly avoid saying _merde_, we say _caca, a word that_ from the Greek kaka meaning "bad things".


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## oliviafrance

In my part of the world (france - marseille) Merde is used as well as putain, usually like the "f" word in the US : as a dot  
_Il avance avec sa caisse, putain de merde ..._ (you can even put both of them) It's an usual way of speaking in cars over here !! 
Furthermore, I often say "_hé merde"_ when I break something, or if I did a stupid thing.


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## Johnny Blaze

giannid said:
			
		

> Well in american english you can say _shit_ instead of _stuff_:
> 
> I've got some shit to do.
> 
> It was all hot and shit.



That's said everywhere, not just America. Some people really do overestimate the differences between the English spoken in America and everywhere else.

BTW shit is a barely even a curse word, it's used in just about every circumstance. Just ask George Bush


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## TRG

While we are on the subject, is <<tête du merde>> correct French for shithead? I hate to say it, but this is an important word in AE.

TRG


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## balaam

the words are correct but unheard of.

sac à merde (bagshit) is quite violent but sometimes used. be ready to fight or fly.
fouteur de merde is common, it is someone who make a mess. not a pleasant title, but most teenagers boast with it.

"on est là pour foutre la merde !"


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## melancolique

yeah, i use _fuck_ quite a lot [desolee, jim et franchi ] around people my age, though not in front of parents/teachers.... but _shit_ is very accepted, like _merde...._


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## radjane dessama

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Oh no, literally,_ putain_ is _whore_
> And _a_ _bitch_ is _une_ _chienne_ (literally and sometimes figuratively).


 
Ah non, _bitch_ is not *only* _chienne_, it's *also* _chienne_

And _putain_ I don't believe is a _whore_

the English _whore_ is very specific in meaning, and has an olde worlde feel to it : _Was this fair paper, this most goodly book made to write "whore" upon?_

_putain_ on the contrary is more general, less vicious, and has several layers of meaning. _Mais où est cette putain de chemise?_

Whereas a whore, as Gertrude Stein would say, _is a whore is a whore is a whore is a whore_

_putain_ is certainly not as semantically explosive as _whore._

_putain _is _bitch_ in English

_whore, _on the contrary, could be translated into French as _pute - _same etymology, but more nuanced and precise, and of course, more offensive


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## Cath.S.

Radjane Dessama,
we really are really off topic but I have to say this!

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a _whore_ is 
*1* *:* a woman who engages in sexual acts for money *:*PROSTITUTE; _also_ *:* a promiscuous or immoral woman

which is the exact definition of _putain_ in French.

According to TLFi (and I don't think French speakers would disagree here)
PUTAIN, subst. fém. means :
*A. *_Trivial_
*1. *Prostituée qui exerce son métier dans la rue ou en maison de tolérance. Synon. _catin, pute._


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## jimreilly

melancolique said:
			
		

> yeah, i use _fuck_ quite a lot [desolee, jim et franchi ] around people my age, though not in front of parents/teachers.... but _shit_ is very accepted, like _merde...._



Ah, no need to apologize; when I use _fuck_ in front ofsome of my students they too are shocked. Of course if I taught in a real school instead of my own private music studio I couldn't do it! *When you are allowed to shock and who is actually shocked all depends on context. It's when you violate the usual boundaries just enough to shock a little more but are still able to get away with it that it's the most effective!*


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## giannid

I remember when I went to a french university to try to learn french.  I saw some guys playing american football and joined them.  I threw a long ball to a french guy, and he just missed reaching the ball.  We would've scored if he had caught the ball.  He came back to the huddle and said, "Putain"!  I thought he was calling me a whore or bitch for not throwing him the ball better (it was a good throw).  So I said, "What"?  He said, "Putain"!  That means like "Whore".  I kept thinking he was blaming me for the pass.

Later that day I found out that Putain does not mean whore (okay literally it does), but it means _Shit!_ or _Fuck!_  If the French want to say that a girl is a whore, they will say _Pute_.

By the way, the same thing happened to David O'Leary and Robert Pires.  After a heated game, O'Leary told Pires to shut up, Pires then said, "Putain"!  The english papers were saying that Pires called O'Leary a whore - bad translation.


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## radjane dessama

egueule said:
			
		

> Radjane Dessama,
> we really are really off topic but I have to say this!
> 
> According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a _whore_ is
> *1* *:* a woman who engages in sexual acts for money *:*PROSTITUTE; _also_ *:* a promiscuous or immoral woman
> 
> which is the exact definition of _putain_ in French.
> 
> According to TLFi (and I don't think French speakers would disagree here)
> PUTAIN, subst. fém. means :
> *A. *_Trivial_
> *1. *Prostituée qui exerce son métier dans la rue ou en maison de tolérance. Synon. _catin, pute._


 
Yes, we are indeed off-topic, but as the point has come up il faut mettre les points sur les i.

i guess i had not made myself clear the first time.

i don't/can't deny the Webster/TLFi meanings.  But they certainly are not the only meanings

What I wished to point out is that while _putain/bitch_ lend themselves to a variety of interpretations, _whore/pute_ are enjoy much less semantic latidude


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## Lezert

Pour ajouter à ce scatolofil

_utilisé pour décrire quelque chose qui ne fonctionne pas_
cette bagnole, c'est une vraie merde
_et même décliné en verbe ( merder )_ ça merde complètement_  ( assez utilisé celui là)_

_Pour décrire une situatipon désepérée
_Il est dans une merde noire

_Pour décrire un fouineur, qui s'occupe de ce qui ne le regarde pas ( très utilisé dans les films, ou dans leur doublage, quand un policier s'adresse à un détective privé)
_ce type, c'est un fouille-merde

Pour décrire une chute (personne ou objet) sans rebond:
il est tombé comme une merde

tout ça, c'est dans un registre assez gentil quand même

Bon, j'arrête là pour le moment
 Maintenant, une petite expérience. munissez vous d'un marteau de taille moyenne. Posez un doigt sur le bord de la table. 
Et frappez sur votre doigt d'un coup sec
Vous découvrirez:
1. Votre registre maximum ( dans mon cas, tout ce qui a été cité ci-dessus y passe, et même plus)
2. Si vous vous croyez parfaitement bilingue, votre vraie langue maternelle


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## Gardefeu

Un ajout de plus pour les collectionneurs - ma dernière création, absolument spontanée et libre de copyright, après avoir perdu mes clefs la semaine dernière: _Triple merde noire!_


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## Cath.S.

_



whore/pute are enjoy much less semantic latidude
		
Click to expand...

__Pute_ peut être mis à toutes les sauces.
You might even use it to talk about a woman (or even a man) whom you think have treated you particularly badly:

_Elle n'a pas voulu que je prenne un accompte la sale pute !_ 

Obviously this is extremely coarse language.
Now I'll stop discussing this, back to the old shite.


			
				Lezert said:
			
		

> Pour ajouter à ce scatolofil


Tu veux dire ce _scatofi_l !


> Pour décrire une situatipon désepérée
> Il est dans une merde noire


Dans ma région (Centre), on entend parfois dire :
_Ben on est pas dans la merde !_
qui est censé être de l'humour. 

Exemple :
_T'as amené ta guitare ? Ben, on est pas dans la merde !_


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## mauz80

être dans la merde could me to be in trouble...or up shit's creek.


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## Nat-Paris France

merci Lezert 


			
				Lezert said:
			
		

> _Pour décrire un fouineur, qui s'occupe de ce qui ne le regarde pas ( très utilisé dans les films, ou dans leur doublage, quand un policier s'adresse à un détective privé)_
> ce type, c'est un fouille-merde


 
j'aimerai bien la traduction de "fouille-merde"... je veux dire en tant que mot du language vulgaire (le parlé de la rue), je n'ai pas trouvé dans le dictionnaire.

Nathalie


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## texasweed

*Muckrakers *is one of many


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## Lezert

virtdave said:
			
		

> yup, Daniel Bernard, the French ambassador to the UK, reportedly did refer to Israel as 'un petit pays merdeux'-- he was (sorta) punished by being reassigned to the post of French ambassador to Algeria, where his view of Israel was likely welcomed....



Il semble que nos ambassadeurs aient une tradition ... si j'ose me permettre , merdeuse:

Et comment cela, me direz-vous? Le voici, Messieurs. La reine d’Espagne est un bâton merdeux qu’on ne sait par quel bout prendre. Elle a toujours eu, vous le savez, la fureur de péter plus haut que le cul. Qu’en est-il arrivé? Le roi de Prusse nous a pété dans la main, et le roi de Sardaigne nous a chié du poivre. »

_(René-Louis, marquis D’ARCANSON, secrétaire d’état aux Affaires étrangères, Discours politique sur les affaires présentes, 1746, cité in Ferdinand Brunot, Histoire de la langue française, tome VI)_


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## Lezert

tout ça me fait penser à une autre déclinaison scatofilesque:
merdique  ( embrouillé, compliqué, pas net, tarabiscoté, désorganisé )
i.e. _cette discussion est complètement merdique
i.e. ce type, je le comprends pas, il est un peu merdique dans sa tête
_le registre est familier, je ne sais même pas si on peut le considérer comme grossier


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## Behane

Salut,

Mes amis disent parfois la phrase 'putain la vache' - est-il parce que cette phrase est moins offensive?

je crois que John Cleese a fait un drole de commentaire sur les usages du mot 'fuck' en anglais. Faut que je le trouve...

Behane


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## Agnès E.

Lezert said:
			
		

> tout ça me fait penser à une autre déclinaison scatofilesque:
> merdique ( embrouillé, compliqué, pas net, tarabiscoté, désorganisé )
> i.e. _cette discussion est complètement merdique_
> _i.e. ce type, je le comprends pas, il est un peu merdique dans sa tête_
> le registre est familier, je ne sais même pas si on peut le considérer comme grossier


C'est vrai, ça ! Etonnamment, _merdique_ passe mieux que _merde_...


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## Lezert

Behane said:
			
		

> Mes amis disent parfois la phrase 'putain la vache' - est-il parce que cette phrase est moins offensive?


 Ce n'est pas une offense, c'est plutôt une manière de montrer son étonnement, sa surprise
en français châtié, on dirait "quelle stupéfaction"


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## Lezert

et toujours dans les déclinaisons, dans le même registre que "merdique" il y a emmerdant, qui est passé dans le langage courant ( bien sûr, on ne l'entendra pas dans la bouche d'un ministre, _du moins en public_ hum, hum_.
_emmerdant ( ennuyeux, gênant, difficile ...) et bien sûr emmerder 

ce film était nul, je me suis emmerdé pendant 1h 1/2
Ta voiture est en rade? c'est emmerdant ça, comment tu fais pour venir au boulot?
c'est plein de moustiques qui n'arrêtent pas de m'emmerder


Est-ce que "shit" est décliné aussi ?


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## Cath.S.

> Est-ce que "shit" est décliné aussi ?


Il y a l'adjectif _shitty _= _merdique_
et le nom _shitter_ qui outre son sens de _chiottes_ signifie aussi d'après l'Urban Dictionary :

Somebody who is a coward, a wimp. 
Source

Un _lâche,_ une l_avette _donc, puisqu'il se chie dessus et non pas un _chieur comme on pourrait être tenté de le croire_.


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## FrançoisXV

ce n'est donc pas un chieur, mais un chiasseux.


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## Lezert

encore une autre déclinaison :
"emmerdeur" : 
ATILF:


> *Emmerdeur, euse, *subst., trivial, péj.  [Correspond à _emmerder_ B]  Personne qui importune, contrarie ou agace fortement les autres; personne *qui* ennuie les autres. _Quelle connerie peut-il avoir encore faite, ce petit emmerdeur?_ (SARTRE, _Sursis, _1945, p. 114). _Maintenant que les emmerdeurs sont partis on va pouvoir s'amuser un peu_ (BEAUVOIR, _Mandarins, _1954, p. 184). 1re attest. 1866 (GONCOURT, _Journal,_ p. 263); du rad. de _emmerder,_ étymol. 3, suff. _-eur._*.


 qui est aussi relativement courant. bien sûr, ne le dites pas à votre patron qu'ile est unn emmerdeur, mais avec vos collègues, vous pouvez parler de lui en ces termes...


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## LV4-26

Il me semble que nous avons oublié une remarque importante.

_Shit_ et _merde_ ont une différence de prononciation qui, à mon avis, influe sur le sens que l'on peut leur donner.
_Shit_ ne peut être que court (autrement, la voyelle va se trouver déformée).
Au contraire,_ merde_ peut être aussi long que le locuteur le désire.
Au niveau de l'intention que l'on peut mettre derrière, il me semble que cela change tout.

Je pensais à ça en entendant ma compagne prononcer un long meeeeerde tout à l'heure (à la suite d'une maladresse avec des conséquences assez contrariantes)*.

Le dépit rageur mais *sec* contre le dépit insistant, plaintif voire "pleurnichard" éventuellement. Pour exprimer le même sentiment, les anglo-saxons vont être obligés de changer de mot et de recourir à _Oh my god_ ou quelque chose du genre.
___________________
* voila ce que c'est : pendant qu'elle est dans la merde, je fais de la linguistique. Je suis vraiment ignoble.


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## Lezert

Encore des déclinaisons de m....:

démerder : débrouiller ( il faut qu'on démerde cette situation), dépanner ( t'inquiètes pas, on va te démerder)
         se démerder = se débrouiller ( tu te démerdes tout seul ou tu as besoin d'aide?)

démerdard: débrouillard

merdouille : quelque chose qui ne vaut rien, qui ne marche pas bien( cet ordinateur, c'est une merdouille!)

merdouiller: bidouiller, faire un bricolage approximatif, faire des erreurs, s'empêtrer, faire quelque chose de boiteux ( cette traduction, je ne m'en sors pas, je merdouille)

Tous ces mots ne sont pas insultants, c'est du français familier, je ne sais même pas si c'est vulgaire. En tout cas , c'est ce qu'on entend vraiment couramment sur les lieux de travail


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## Cath.S.

_Merdeux_, qui a déjà été cité, peut également être un substantif péjoratif désignant un enfant ou un jeune homme beaucoup plus jeune que le locuteur :

_Non mais merde, je ne vais pas me laisser emmerder par un *(petit) merdeux* !_

= *petit con*


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