# Forming the Stems of Spelen and Stoppen



## bluetoonwithcarrotandnail

When Spelen becomes 'Speel' and Stoppen becomes 'Stop' are these
the same rules for Short Vowel/Closed Syllable Long Vowel/Open
Syllable from plural noun formation?  I can't figure out the reason
that the 'e' is being doubled in Spelen.

I believe the reason that Stoppen is being shortenend to 'Stop' is because
a word cannot end with the same two letters.

Thanks.


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## Frank06

Hi,


bluetoonwithcarrotandnail said:


> When Spelen becomes 'Speel' and Stoppen becomes 'Stop' are these the same rules for Short Vowel/Closed Syllable Long Vowel/Open Syllable from plural noun formation?


Basically, yes.



> I can't figure out the reason that the 'e' is being doubled in Spelen.


It actually follows the same rule. The first thing you have to keep in mind that spelling is about 'letters', and letters are not sounds. 

The e-sound in 'sp*e*len' is long, so in the first person singular, it needs to be long too. If we have a long vowel sound in a closed syllable, then the vowel (the letter) is doubled. Mind you, there are exceptions!!!!

E.g. 
_sp*e*len_, long e-sound, open syllable, hence one letter e.
_ik sp*ee*l,_ long e-sound, closed syllable, hence two letters e.

*BUT:*
_k*o*men_, long o-sound, hence one letter o
ik k*o*m, short o-sound, hence one letter o.




> I believe the reason that Stoppen is being shortenend to 'Stop' is because a word cannot end with the same two letters.


Yes, but mainly because the o-sound is short .

Groetjes,

Frank


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## bluetoonwithcarrotandnail

Spelen is becoming Speel because the 'e' is long.  Are these the
same rules for forming noun plurals we are using here?  If they are
then in Long Vowel Sounds Maan became Manen.  This seems to be
the opposite of what was done with Spelen.  In Spelen we are adding
an 'e' and in Maan we are removing an 'a'.  Are these the same rules
or are there different rules for Nouns and Verb Stems?

Thanks.


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## Frank06

Hi,


bluetoonwithcarrotandnail said:


> Spelen is becoming Speel because the 'e' is long. Are these the same rules for forming noun plurals we are using here? If they are then in Long Vowel Sounds Maan became Manen. This seems to be the opposite of what was done with Spelen. In Spelen we are adding an 'e' and in Maan we are removing an 'a'. Are these the same rules or are there different rules for Nouns and Verb Stems?


 
I really think you're mixing up two words.

We have the infinitive 'spelen' (to play). We remove the -en to get the stem of the verb. This is sp*ee*l. With a double e because the e-sound is long.

We have the plural word 'manen' (moons). We remove the -en to get the singular of the noun. This is m*aa*n. With a double a because the a-sound is long.

Now we take 'mannen' (men). We remove -en, which leaves us with 'mann'. However, as you know, double n at the end of a word is imposible. Hence 'man'. With one a because the a sound is short.

Idem dito for the verb 'spellen' (to spell).

Otherwise said, we have the pair 
maan/manen (moon, moons) - speel/spelen
man/mannen (man, men) - spel/spellen


So, yes, making an abstraction of the exceptions, the rules are basically the same.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## bluetoonwithcarrotandnail

Frank06 said:


> We have the infinitive 'spelen' (to play). We remove the -en to get the stem of the verb. This is sp*ee*l. With a double e because the e-sound is long.
> 
> We have the plural word 'manen' (moons). We remove the -en to get the singular of the noun. This is m*aa*n. With a double a because the a-sound is long.



We already know that 'De maan' has a long A from the spelling as provided
by the dictionary.  But in the dictionary is there a way to know that 
'Spelen' has a long 'E' to form the stem Speel?  Is this something you
just have to know or can you form it backwards by rules from
Spelen?

Maybe my interpretation of the rules is wrong because I think that 'Man'
is short because it only has one vowel.  Likewise 'Spelen' would be short
because there is only one 'e'.  This must be incorrect.

Thanks.


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## Suehil

In 'spelen' the e is in the middle of the word and followed by only one consonant -therefore it has to be long.  If it were short it would be spelt 'spellen'


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## Frank06

Hi,


bluetoonwithcarrotandnail said:


> I think that 'Man' is short because it only has one vowel. Likewise 'Spelen' would be short
> because there is only one 'e'. This must be incorrect.


That's indeed incorrect.
Letters are not sounds, sounds are not letters. That's the basic thing to keep in mind. And here you mix them up.



bluetoonwithcarrotandnail said:


> We already know that 'De maan' has a long A from the spelling as provided by the dictionary. But in the dictionary is there a way to know that 'Spelen' has a long 'E' to form the stem Speel?


Yes, the spelling provides this information. At least in this case. And in an ideal world...
The word 'spelen' consists of two syllables:
- the open syllable spe-
- the closed syllable -len.
This means that the e-sound in sp*e*- is long, sp*e*-len, hence 'speel'.

Since this is not an ideal world, and since there is no one-to-one relation between sounds and letters, we have a huge problem with the *letter e*. 

The *letter e* can represent three sounds:
- short e sound
- long e sound
[If you keep in mind the rules concerning long/short sounds and openb/closed syllables, you won't mix those up.]
- shwa (the sound you hear in man*e*n). It's not always clear how to pronounce a word which has a shwa sound, especially in the first syllable.
Look at bevelen, verkennen, verspreken, verspringen , benevelen, bevel, Bevel, .....


Groetjes,

Frank


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## bluetoonwithcarrotandnail

I think I got the rules correct for short/long vowel sounds now.
These should be correct:

Laden

it is long (La-den)

Lad (short) so add extra vowel

Laad is the stem

How about Verhogen?

Ver-ho-gen (long)
I am looking at 'ho' as determinant

Verhog (short so add extra vowel)

Verhoog

What happens when you use Vangen?

Vang-en

There are two consonants here and they are not the same
'ng' like in Stopp(en)

Thanks.


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## Frank06

Hi,


bluetoonwithcarrotandnail said:


> What happens when you use Vangen?
> Vang-en
> There are two consonants here and they are not the same
> 'ng' like in Stopp(en)


In Dutch, there's never a long vowel before -ng /ŋ/ (velar nasal sound).
So, it is 'vangen' indeed.

Groetjes,

Frank

PS: Mind you, a word as 'aa*ng*enaam' is aan+genaam, not aang+enaam.


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