# Meals: Supper, breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner.



## mjscott

My mother, an Oklahoma prairie girl, said that supper is the larger meal of the day after breakfast. If it's eaten at lunch time, it's breakfast, supper, and dinner. If your larger meal is eaten in the evening, it's breakfast, lunch (or dinner), then supper.

From another post, I take it _supper_ is not as often used in today's English--that breakfast, lunch and dinner is more the mode.

1.  Does anyone else have any input from the octagenarians (or older) in their families concerning the word _supper_?

2.  Do you use _supper_ as a replacement word for lunch or dinner?


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## panjandrum

Supper is very common - but it refers to a very light something eaten late in the evening to fill that yawning gap between dinner and breakfast.
It could, on occasion, be a much more substantial affair, but that would be on some kind of special occasion.
Supper would never be used to refer to a meal eaten in the middle of the day.


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## petereid

In some parts of the country (UK) it is what most people would call Dinner, in the evening. I have friends who invite me to "supper" which is their main meal of the day.


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## Paulfromitaly

In Scotland I often hear people ask for "one for a supper" when they are buying fish & chips at the chippy, so I usually associate supper with dinner or tea.


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## Brioche

In Australia, 
supper means a snack or very light meal eaten late in the evening.
It is not a full meal.

The evening meal can be called tea or dinner.

My mother always called the main meal _dinner._


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## CarolSueC

Growing up in New England, we usually referred to the weekday evening meal, a substantial one, as "supper."  On Sundays the main meal was at mid-day and was called "dinner" as would a  large holiday meal, such as "Thanksgiving dinner,"  that could occur from noon on.  I'm not sure when I switched to calling "supper" "dinner;" but if my parents were alive, I think they'd probably still be using "supper." (They'd be over 100, but I'm in my 60's.) The only time that "supper" was a light meal would have been on a holiday when the main meal would have been mid-afternoon, requiring a light supper later in the evening.


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## Noupidou

For us, dinner was the big meal - eaten at noon or in the evening.  In our farming family, dinner was at noon and in the evening, we had supper.  In families where the big meal was in the evening, they had lunch at noon, dinner in the evening.


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## Cayuga

Noupidou said:


> For us, dinner was the big meal - eaten at noon or in the evening.  In our farming family, dinner was at noon and in the evening, we had supper.  In families where the big meal was in the evening, they had lunch at noon, dinner in the evening.



That's exactly how we used it, Noupi. Most days of the year, we'd eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. On Thanksgiving, Christmas, and any time we visited our Italian friends on a Sunday, we'd have breakfast, dinner, and supper.

I guess if we'd ever eaten the large meal of the day in the morning, we'd say we had dinner, lunch, and supper.


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## equivoque

In my experience, the evening meal is only referred to as "supper" if lunch was a large affair (in my youth, that would have been Sunday, when Sunday dinner was lunch) and "just a light supper" is sufficient.  Otherwise, supper is a small meal "snack" taken later in the evening after dinner, or later in the evening because dinner was skipped altogether, for any number of reasons (show/movies/cocktail party/unplanned catastrophe) and a large meal is impractical.

Dinner and "tea" are also interchangeable but tea is the evening meal and nothing special.  "Tea" seems to be used less frequently now, at least, around this neck of the woods.


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## Cayuga

equivoque said:


> In my experience,



I'm sorry if I offended you, equiv. I don't doubt that the Australian experience is different from the American. I just wanted to provide another point of view.


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## equivoque

*No, you misunderstood me! *I wasn't offended, I just wanted to make sure no-one assumed I was explaining the meaning of the words, as I realize that they can be different, depending on where you come from.


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## Cayuga

equivoque said:


> *No, you misunderstood me! *I wasn't offended, I just wanted to make sure no-one assumed I was explaining the meaning of the words



Cool. Sorry I was so oversensitive.


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## equivoque

No worries!


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## lablady

I grew up calling the meals breakfast, lunch and dinner, and anything eaten between dinner and bedtime was a snack. However, my grandmother and great-grandmother always referred to the meal served somewhere around noon as "dinner" and the meal served about 6pm as "supper" regardless of their size. I don't remember either of them using the word "lunch".

I had always thought it was a generational difference, but as I read everyone's posts I now think it may have been at least in part because of their lifestyles. Both of these ladies were farmer's wives. They were accustomed to preparing _huge_ breakfasts and _huge_ dinners to serve the menfolk who were burning a massive number of calories out in the fields. If I remember their stories correctly, supper was the light meal of the day on the farm. After the farms were sold and the ladies moved to the city, the sizes of the meals changed but "dinner" was still served at about noon and "supper" was about 6pm.

It also may be in part because they were the most recent immigrants in our family. From the other posts, it sounds like they came from countries whose residents call it "supper". Since neither of these ladies are here to answer my questions anymore, I'll probably never know for sure.


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## panjandrum

Paulfromitaly said:


> In Scotland I often hear people ask for "one for a supper" when they are buying fish & chips at the chippy, so I usually associate supper with dinner or tea.


Ah, that is a different thing altogether. From time to time we have fish and chips for our evening meal - for our dinner. I go down to the chippy and ask for X fish suppers (X being the number who will be having dinner).
A fish supper from the chippy consists of a piece of succulent cod dipped in batter and deep fried plus a generous helping of chips (the thick sticks of deep-fried potato that were discussed HERE).

In this context, supper is a generic description of something with chips. So I could ask for a cod supper, haddock supper, a chicken supper, a sausage supper (battered or plain), a pastie supper, a pie supper ... and I would get the appropriate ingredient with chips.


			
				equivoque said:
			
		

> Dinner and "tea" are also interchangeable but tea is the evening meal and nothing special. "Tea" seems to be used less frequently now, at least, around this neck of the woods.


I forgot about "tea". As a child, we always had breakfast, dinner and tea. Tea was really what used to be called high tea. The characteristic of tea was that it included something cooked (or salad in summer) bread and butter, and of course tea to drink.

And of course it would be possible to have a fish supper for your tea


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## Fox30News

panjandrum said:


> Ah, that is a different thing altogether. From time to time we have fish and chips for our evening meal - for our dinner. I go down to the chippy and ask for X fish suppers (X being the number who will be having dinner).
> A fish supper from the chippy consists of a piece of succulent cod dipped in batter and deep fried plus a generous helping of chips (the thick sticks of deep-fried potato that were discussed ).
> 
> In this context, supper is a generic description of something with chips. So I could ask for a cod supper, haddock supper, a chicken supper, a sausage supper (battered or plain), a pastie supper, a pie supper ... and I would get the appropriate ingredient with chips.
> I forgot about "tea". As a child, we always had breakfast, dinner and tea. Tea was really what used to be called high tea. The characteristic of tea was that it included something cooked (or salad in summer) bread and butter, and of course tea to drink.
> 
> And of course it would be possible to have a fish supper for your tea



If I heard anyone talk about having tea. I'd think they were talking about the drink.


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## cuchuflete

Fox30News said:


> If I heard anyone talk about having tea. I'd think they were talking about the drink.


You mark yourself as an AE speaker.

When I was a child, many decades ago, the words supper and dinner were nearly interchangeable, with dinner used only a little more frequently to describe the evening meal.  Over the years, the use of supper in AE has declined.  It's still commonly understood, but not much used except by older people and those in some fairly isolated small towns.  Living in a small town, with lots of people over the age of seventy, I probably hear the word more than I would in most parts of the US.


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## maxiogee

When I was a child we had tea in the evenings, having had our main meal of the day in the middle of the day.

At that time my grandmother ran a small hotel and offered Breakfast, Lunch, Tea, and High Tea. 
High Tea was, again, not the main meal of the day, but was quite substantial in itself.
As my mother assisted my grandmother, throughout the summer, in the running of the hotel - and as we children couldn't be left with my father for the three months, we spent summer in a semi-unsupervised way, in and out of the hotel where our mother was too busy to pay us much attention.
The hotel catered for families and the general rule was that Tea was for children and High Tea was for parents.


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## .   1

In my neck o the woods supper is a light snack taken between sunset and midnight.

*supper *_n_ an evening meal esp. a light one.

.,,


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## timpeac

panjandrum said:


> Supper is very common - but it refers to a very light something eaten late in the evening to fill that yawning gap between dinner and breakfast.
> It could, on occasion, be a much more substantial affair, but that would be on some kind of special occasion.
> Supper would never be used to refer to a meal eaten in the middle of the day.


I was going to say the above almost word for word, but I was going to add that my Mum's friend from Yorkshire refers to it as the standard term for the evening meal, and I see in post three Petereid has beaten me to that too so...I'll note that my partner, born and bred in Buckinghamshire calls mid-day meal (which I call lunch, although born and bred in Buckinghamshire too) dinner and the evening meal is tea.

For me "tea" is a light evening meal where you've had so much for lunch that you don't feel like cooking. It would be something involving toast and crumpet probably. Growing up we always had tea on a Sunday because we would have a roast at lunch-time.


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## comsci

I was taught in school back home that "supper" and "dinner" can be used interchangeably, obviously that's NOT the case here. I guess that's why they say "*the Last Supper*" instead of "dinner".  Now I know that supper means light meal/snack before the real thing - dinner, which could well be a big feast.


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## timpeac

comsci said:


> I was taught in school back home that "supper" and "dinner" can be used interchangeably, obviously that's NOT the case here. I guess that's why they say "*the Last Supper*" instead of "dinner".  Now I know that supper means light meal/snack before the real thing - dinner, which could well be a big feast.


No - for some people it means the main evening meal, and for others it means a light snack _after_ the main evening meal (dinner). I tend to be awake until the early hours of the morning, rarely asleep before 2 often later. I will have a snack of a small sandwich or something similar around midnight which I would call supper (but I don't have breakfast, so it's really just a reorganisation of the traditional meal times I suppose).


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## comsci

Thank you for the clarification, timpeac, so supper _could_ mean both "dinner"/"main evening meal" *AND *night snack/light meal before one goes to bed or anytime after dinner and bedtime? Sorry if I have misunderstood you.


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## timpeac

comsci said:


> Thank you for the clarification, so supper _could_ mean both "dinner"/"main evening meal" *AND *night snack/light meal before one goes to bed or anytime after dinner and bedtime? Sorry if I have misunderstood you.


Well, dinner for some means the lunch-time meal - so let's avoid all terminology - "supper" can mean "main evening meal" or it can mean "snack eaten after the main evening meal but before bed".

I should add that I have also heard some people talk about "tea" for "main evening meal" too. Being greedy by nature I don't like this because it sounds to me like I wouldn't get a decent meal. I find it hard to imagine a three-course meal with wine and digestif being described as "tea"!


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## comsci

I'm clear with "supper" now but a bit confused with "_dinner for some means the lunch-time meal_" statement. I thought it's *lunch* one would use to describe a lunch-time meal. Why crossover these words and make all terminology a mess? I really don't get it. >"<


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## comsci

timpeac said:


> Well, dinner for some means the lunch-time meal - so let's avoid all terminology - "supper" can mean "main evening meal" or it can mean "snack eaten after the main evening meal but before bed".
> 
> I should add that I have also heard some people talk about "tea" for "main evening meal" too. Being greedy by nature I don't like this because it sounds to me like I wouldn't get a decent meal. I find it hard to imagine a three-course meal with wine and digestif being described as "tea"!


 
Should I simply use "breakfast", "lunch", "dinner", and "supper/bedtime snack" for the sake of simplicity then? The use of "tea" may sound odd to an AE speaker only because it's BE. Same thing happens with Simplified VS Traditional Chinese. Yikes!!


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## timpeac

comsci said:


> I'm clear with "supper" now but a bit confused with "_dinner for some means the lunch-time meal_" statement. I thought it's *lunch* one would use to describe a lunch-time meal. Why crossover these words and make all terminology a mess? I really don't get it. >"<


Well, because no one is crossing over anything People aren't speaking English so that it's easy for foreigners to understand - they are just speaking as their friends and parents do. For some they use the word "dinner" to talk of the lunchtime meal, others for the evening meal - but I expect you'll find within the same family and groups of friends they use the same term (and this will usually be true for whole geographical areas).

Linguistically these terms seem to be very fluid in other languages I've studied. I think it probably comes from different cultures and habits within cultures as to which meal is the main one. After all there was (I believe) a time when breakfast was the largest meal of the day. Perhaps people ate dinner then! From an etymological point of view I presume that "dinner" and "to dine" are linked and "to dine" means simply "to eat a meal".


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## timpeac

comsci said:


> Should I simply use "breakfast", "lunch", "dinner", and "supper/bedtime snack" for the sake of simplicity then? The use of "tea" may sound odd to an AE speaker only because it's BE. Same thing happens with Simplifed VS Traditional Chinese. Yikes!!


I think that "breakfast" "lunch" and "dinner" are the most common words in time order, and I would advise you to use those, yes. I would also advise you to be very aware for local differences (as am I myself). If someone from another region of the country (even if they now live where I do) said "you must come to dinner tomorrow!" I would check what time of day they meant.


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## comsci

It's attributed to people's perception of a particular language I suppose. You're right and I haven't thought about that in my previous posts, at least not this deep.  I realise that in many European countries like Spain or France people tend to eat their lunches rather *LATE*(usually after a siesta they call) And it's all about culture differences you're damn right.  In my neck of the woods(I've learned this term rather late), people have more *fixed* schedules as to eating meals. _We_ don't eat late lunches(maybe some do) or supper/night or late night snack or ... it's just _me_.


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## Nasdiego

In my point of view, supper is the meal that people usually eat in the afternon, and it is usually light and the main meal on the day. However, my hostfamiy says that it could be a light and main meal on the afternoon, yet, however, it could be a very light meal that people eat before sleeping. Furthermore, I've heard that supper could be a party that food is served on the party.


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## comsci

Here you go again. 

I guess people all have their own perceptions about this "mealtime" concept.


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## mplsray

mjscott said:


> My mother, an Oklahoma prairie girl, said that supper is the larger meal of the day after breakfast. If it's eaten at lunch time, it's breakfast, supper, and dinner. If your larger meal is eaten in the evening, it's breakfast, lunch (or dinner), then supper.
> 
> From another post, I take it _supper_ is not as often used in today's English--that breakfast, lunch and dinner is more the mode.
> 
> 1. Does anyone else have any input from the octagenarians (or older) in their families concerning the word _supper_?
> 
> 2. Do you use _supper_ as a replacement word for lunch or dinner?


 

I'm a 52-year-old Midwesterner who grew up in a rural area in Central Illinois. When I was a boy, we called the midday meal _dinner _and the evening meal _supper._ However, at school the midday meal was referred to as _lunch._

Nowadays I live in a big city and use _lunch_ and _dinner_ for the midday meal and evening meal, respectively.


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## Porteño

In my younger days in Surrey we had breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea and dinner. As many before have already said, supper was a light snack before going to bed. How we ate in those days! All good food, too, no junk!.


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## cheshire

The Tale of the Pie and the Pattypan said:
			
		

> I was just going to invite you to come here, to *supper*, my dear Ribby, to eat something most delicious.





			
				The Tale of Peter Rabbit said:
			
		

> But Flopsy, Mopsy, and Cotton-tail had bread and milk and blackberries, for *supper*.


One specialist of Beatrix Potter in Japan is assuming the following:

morning: breakfast​
noon: *dinner*​
night: supper​or

morning: breakfast​
noon: lunch​
night: *dinner*​So, in the case of Peter Rabbit, he claims that Flopsy and Cotton-tail must have eaten *dinner* around noon when Peter was away rushing around in Mr McGregor's garden.
Is it really true?


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## The Scrivener

cheshire said:


> One specialist of Beatrix Potter in Japan is assuming the following:
> 
> morning: breakfast​noon: *dinner*​night: supper​or
> 
> morning: breakfast​noon: lunch​night: *dinner*​So, in the case of Peter Rabbit, he claims that Flopsy and Cotton-tail must have eaten *dinner* around noon when Peter was away rushing around in Mr McGregor's garden.
> Is it really true?


 
At the time of Beatrix Potter, dinner was often eaten at midday. If this was done, then supper was the last meal of the day. Some people had breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper (a light meal before going to bed). It was very much a class thing.

In parts of Britain people call their meals breakfast, dinner and tea. In this case "tea" is actually as substantial as a dinner, and dinner is a lighter meal equivalent to lunch.


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## cheshire

That's interesting, and new to me!
You mean, tea>dinner! That's completely new to me!

Could you tell me if the following pattern is possible?

morning: breakfast
noon: lunch
night: supper


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## The Scrivener

cheshire said:


> That's interesting, and new to me!
> You mean, tea>dinner! That's completely new to me!
> 
> Could you tell me if the following pattern is possible?
> 
> morning: breakfast
> noon: lunch
> night: supper


 
In the north of England, in particular, men will return home from work expecting to find their "tea" ready and waiting on the table.  I know some people who are from Yorkshire and they always refer to their evening meal as "tea".  It is a hearty meal, with meat or fish plus vegetables.  Frequently followed by a pudding, such as apple pie and custard.

Your pattern is possible, because in other regions of Britain the evening meal is called supper.  It is the same as "tea" or dinner.

I believe "supper" is commonly used in Scotland.

We are a strange lot!


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## cheshire

Thanks!
So, in Peter Rabit's case, which do you think Mopsy and Cotton-tail have eaten, lunch or dinner?


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## The Scrivener

cheshire said:


> Thanks!
> So, in Peter Rabit's case, which do you think Mopsy and Cotton-tail have eaten, lunch or dinner?


 
They have eaten dinner, since supper is only served in the evening.  Supper is never substituted for lunch.


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## cheshire

Let me explain the context of the passage in Peter Rabbit.

Around noon, Peter was in Mr. McGregor's garden. In the meantime, his sisters (Cotton-tail and Mopsy) was in their home (rabbit hole). It was not until Peter was back home that they (those three rabbits) had supper.


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## Ecossaise

Supper (derived from French souper) is a light or informal evening meal. It was served if dinner was taken at midday.


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## Packard

In AE (or at least in my parent's home) we had to be home in time for supper which was served at 6:00 PM each day.

Lunch was served at noon.

And breakfast was served shortly after awakening.


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## cheshire

Thanks"!
Let me confirm...
Is this type possible, both in UK and USA?

morning: breakfast
noon: lunch
night: supper


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## dobes

When I was growing up in New England, 'dinner' was used to designate the heaviest meal of the day, whether it was served at noon or in the evening.  Lunch was used if the noon meal was the lighter of the two, and supper if the evening meal was a light one. We had breakfast, lunch, and dinner Monday through Saturday, but breakfast, dinner, and supper on Sunday. 

So, formally, the answer to your question - could you have breakfast, lunch, and supper -- would be no, because the heavier of lunch and supper would be replaced with the word 'dinner'. But informally, the answer is yes - people do speak that way, I've probably used those terms myself many times, and everyone understands that lunch is the noon meal, light or heavy, and supper the evening one.

But Scrivener writes above that the evening meal is 'frequently followed by a pudding, such as apple pie and custard'.  I am confused by the word 'pudding' as used by the British. Do you call all desserts 'pudding'? And what else is 'pudding'? I know you have some savory ones, too. Right now, I have the idea that British people eat an awful lot of gelatinous food!


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## gaer

dobes said:


> When I was growing up in New England, 'dinner' was used to designate the heaviest meal of the day, whether it was served at noon or in the evening. Lunch was used if the noon meal was the lighter of the two, and supper if the evening meal was a light one. We had breakfast, lunch, and dinner Monday through Saturday, but breakfast, dinner, and supper on Sunday.
> 
> So, formally, the answer to your question - could you have breakfast, lunch, and supper -- would be no, because the heavier of lunch and supper would be replaced with the word 'dinner'. But informally, the answer is yes - people do speak that way, I've probably used those terms myself many times, and everyone understands that lunch is the noon meal, light or heavy, and supper the evening one.
> 
> But Scrivener writes above that the evening meal is 'frequently followed by a pudding, such as apple pie and custard'. I am confused by the word 'pudding' as used by the British. Do you call all desserts 'pudding'? And what else is 'pudding'? I know you have some savory ones, too. Right now, I have the idea that British people eat an awful lot of gelatinous food!


Here's something to make you hungry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Pudding

Not "pudding" at all in the American sense, but VERY tasty!!!!!


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## cheshire

Ok, I understand!
Thank you very much!
I've got lots of responses!
All very helpful!


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## Dmitry_86

Nun-Translator said:


> Here are some threads that might be useful.
> 
> Meals: Supper, breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner.
> Meals: Breakfast, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.
> Meals: So that brings us back to dinner? supper? lunch?


 
Thanks a lot for the links!!! They are all extremely interesting, even riveting, I would say. What amazes me most of all after reading the vast information you have kindly offered is that there is really a huge variety of different meanings people want to convey when saying "lunch-dinner-supper-tea-high tea". I have never thought before that the meanings can be so versatile, so ambiguous as they have turned out to be. In the posts which may be found following the links above, I would like to emphasize two aspects:

1) When invited "to a dinner tomorrow" by a person for whom English language is a mother tongue you must always specify the exact time he/she means. Otherwise, it might happen, for example, that you come in the mid-afternoon (if it is a day-off and you are free from work) whereas he expects to see you in the evening. I will remember this.

2) The second idea is the one suggested (exclaimed!!!) by one of the members whose post contains in one of the first links above: What is the use of making such a mess? Why not aggreeing unanimously to use the words in the same way, at least, within one country? Nevertheless, my words are not a reproach or disapproval, heaven forbid, they are more likely a great surprise. I am Russian and we do not have any differences when referring to various sorts of meal. Nor do our neighbours: Ukraine, Belorussia, etc. I see now that it is one tiny part of YOUR numerous traditions.


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## JulianStuart

Dmitry_86 said:


> ...Why not aggreeing unanimously to use the words in the same way, at least, within one country?
> ...



You can think of the situation as a smaller, local version of the question_ "Why is there more than one language on the planet?"_

There actually is quite a bit of agreement.
Breakfast is always the first meal of the day (to break your fast).
Lunch can only be the middle meal.
Supper is always later than lunch, and almost always a "light meal".
Dinner is a big meal.
Tea is a drink but finds its way into names of several "meals" some light some large.


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## timpeac

JulianStuart said:


> You can think of the situation as a smaller, local version of the question_ "Why is there more than one language on the planet?"_
> 
> There actually is quite a bit of agreement.
> Breakfast is always the first meal of the day (to break your fast).
> Lunch can only be the middle meal.
> Supper is always later than lunch, and almost always a "light meal".I don't agree with that one. It is light for me, certainly, but I have come across it countless times meant as a main evening meal. In my part of the world (southern England) when it occurs I wonder if it might be a bit of faux modesty (and presumably the people would be told it is smart casual and turn up to find their hosts in DJs!). I'm not so sure of the status of it in the north of England.
> Dinner is a big meal.
> Tea is a drink but finds its way into names of several "meals" some light some large.


Comment above.


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## JulianStuart

timpeac said:


> Comment above.



Ooops - overzealous thread summary  I knew that.

Supper is always later than lunch, and almost always a "light meal". Should be  and either a light meal taken later in the day/evening or the main large evening meal.


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## Redshade

There's a bit of cultural/regional variation as has already been said.

In the north of England the working class person would never use the word "lunch" it being seen as a "posh" word
used by white collar office workers/southerners.

We would have breakfast,dinner (mid-day),tea (late afternoon) and supper (late evening).These were always the names of the meal even though what was eaten could vary greatly.

As a child I had a "school dinner" at mid-day which consisted of a hot meal followed by pudding.

When I got home from school I had my tea which was usually sandwiches and cake ( and jelly on special occasions or at the weekend).

Supper could be anything from a jam sandwich to a portion of fish and chips depending on circumstances.

As an adult I usually had a mid-day sandwich at my desk for my dinner  and go home to a tea which would be the main meal/pudding of the day which I partook  with my father  who had always had his main meal at this time after a hard day's work.

Nowadays a decent hot dinner is a hot dinner whether eaten at dinnertime ,teatime or suppertime.


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## natkretep

Redshade said:


> As a child I had a "school dinner" at mid-day which consisted of a hot meal followed by pudding.


 
The standard term in the UK (regardless of social class) is still school dinner - as in Jamie Oliver's campaign and television series Jamie's School Dinners. (I assume it's also a mid-day dinner at Eton and Harrow? Can someone verify?)



mplsray said:


> I'm a 52-year-old Midwesterner who grew up in a rural area in Central Illinois. ...  However, at school the midday meal was referred to as _lunch._


 
And therefore 'school dinner' is not AmE.


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## panjandrum

Some kids take school dinners.
Those who don't bring a packed lunch.


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## natkretep

panjandrum said:


> Some kids take school dinners.
> Those who don't bring a packed lunch.



Thanks. That's true. I suppose that's because school dinners are typically hot cooked meals and packed lunches are typically sandwiches (fruit, snack bar, crisps, etc). It's the (theoretical) notion of how substantial it is that determines the choice of the term.


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## timpeac

natkretep said:


> Thanks. That's true. I suppose that's because school dinners are typically hot cooked meals and packed lunches are typically sandwiches (fruit, snack bar, crisps, etc). It's the (theoretical) notion of how substantial it is that determines the choice of the term.


 Yes, even in the south we have "dinner ladies" at school not "lunch ladies" (which would make me think of the girls in sex and the city).


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## Dmitry_86

How about the following slang words:

1) *brunch* - a meal in the middle of the day (not exactly in the middle but very close to it), between breakfast in lunch.

1) *lupper* - a meal between lunch and supper.

How often are these words used? Are they British or American originally?

Thanks in advance


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## natkretep

_Brunch_ is relatively common, American in origin I think, but now used on either side of the Atlantic. The old term was _elevenses_ (for a snack around 11.00am) or _morning tea_. I've never heard of _lupper_ though! The other thing that I've heard of, but isn't very common, is _tunch_ (between lunch and [afternoon] tea).


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## CarolSueC

Dmitry_86 said:


> How about the following slang words:
> 
> 1) *brunch* - a meal in the middle of the day (not exactly in the middle but very close to it), between breakfast in lunch.
> 
> 1) *lupper* - a meal between lunch and supper.
> 
> How often are these words used? Are they British or American originally?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
I have never heard of "lupper," but "brunch" has been around since 1896, according to Merriam-Webster, and is *not* slang.  In the US many restaurants and hotels offer brunch, especially on Sunday.


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## panjandrum

Brunch is well-established here.
It's not equivalent to elevenses, though.  Elevenses, and the afternoon equivalent, fourses, is a term for an _additional _little something to keep body and soul together through the long gap between main meals.
Brunch  (see the WR dictionary entry for brunch which lists Meals: Breakfast, lunch, brunch. Is there a BRUNCH in the evening? brunch)  results in one _fewer _meal in the day because it combines breakfast and lunch.


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## teksch

As I thought about this while at a local restaurant, I looked at the menu. The meals offered were broken into three major categories: Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. In the western U.S. almost all menus are written this way. The lunch menu consisted of sandwiches, salads, beverages, and desserts. The lunch offerings were not what would be considered full meals – soup, salad, entrée, and desert. The dinner menu featured larger and more expensive meals. 
Sometimes the term “supper” is used in menus but this word is generally used by restaurants that are trying to portray themselves as being more “homey” A restaurant with an old western theme might use the word “supper” instead of “dinner” – Chuck Wagon Suppers are popular in the west. 
 
A good definition I heard is that supper (the main meal in the evening) is what you prepare and dinner is what someone else prepares for you.  
 
It would seem that restaurant owners in the western U.S. (or those who write the menus) have reached an agreement on the meaning of “lunch” and “dinner.”


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## HighHorse

Supper is regional.  I says that because in California, for example, it is rarely used.  If it is, it would be construed as meaning dinner.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
Thanks to Nunty, I can reach here.

Suppose I ate McDonald's Value-set at noon, and paid $4.00.
And suppose I ate McDonald's special-set at night, and paid $8.50, at the same day.

Then the most deluxe meal I took for the day would be McDonald's special-set at night. Because it cost me most for the day.
Should I call it my dinner, or my supper?
or may I call it whichever I like?
or Neither?

Thank you.


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## Copyright

Wishfull said:


> Hi.
> Thanks to Nunty, I can reach here.
> 
> Suppose I ate McDonald's Value-set at noon, and paid $4.00.
> And suppose I ate McDonald's special-set at night, and paid $8.50, at the same day.
> 
> Then the most deluxe meal I took for the day would be McDonald's special-set at night. Because it cost me most for the day.
> Should I call it my dinner, or my supper?
> or may I call it whichever I like?
> or Neither?
> 
> Thank you.



To quote mjscott's first sentence of the first post: My mother, an Oklahoma prairie girl, said that supper is the larger meal  of the day after breakfast. If it's eaten at lunch time, it's  breakfast, supper, and dinner. If your larger meal is eaten in the  evening, it's breakfast, lunch (or dinner), then supper.
 
Nowhere did he mention price, deluxe or special-set in determining meal names. It was all about size. 

My own grandparents and great-grandparents from the neighboring and equally flat-as-a-prairie-pancake state of Kansas called the three meals Breakfast, Dinner and Supper. Dinner was the largest meal of the day and took the place of today's Lunch, a word they never used.

If I were giving advice -- and I think I'm about to -- I would stick with Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. 

But it's personal advice and you're allowed to ignore it. I haven't read this entire thread, but I plan to real soon. It won't change my mind but I'm sure it will make me hungry.


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## Wishfull

Thank you, for your comment, Copyright.

Sorry, my scenario was not enough.
Suppose I ate 3 sets of McDonald's value-sets at night.......

OK. I will change my question.
Is it worth while to call it a "*dinner*" when I eat junk food or fast food?
or *Supper*?
or just *Snacks*? I don't think McDonald's is snacks.
I myself think that McDonald's is McDonald's, and I can't call it "dinner" or "supper".

(From my point of view, McDonald's food is junk food or fast food, no matter what it has too-much-calories. )


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## Copyright

Wishfull said:


> Thank you, for your comment, Copyright.
> 
> Sorry, my scenario was not enough.
> Suppose I ate 3 sets of McDonald's value-sets at night.......
> 
> OK. I will change my question.
> Is it worth while to call it a "*dinner*" when I eat junk food or fast food?
> or *Supper*?
> or just *Snacks*? I don't think McDonald's is snacks.
> I myself think that McDonald's is McDonald's, and I can't call it "dinner" or "supper".
> 
> (From my point of view, McDonald's food is junk food or fast food, no matter what it has too-much-calories. )



To repeat myself with fewer words: *Breakfast, Lunch,  Dinner* -- all based on time and nothing else. Forget *Supper *even though my dear grandmother used it.
_
Where did you have dinner?
At McDonald's.

Let's have dinner at McDonald's.

_You can have one escargot for dinner and it's still dinner -- just a little meager. Although it was a big deal in the snail's day.


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## Wishfull

Copyright said:


> To repeat myself with fewer words: *Breakfast, Lunch,  Dinner* -- all based on time and nothing else. Forget *Supper *even though my dear grandmother used it.
> _
> Where did you have dinner?
> At McDonald's.
> 
> Let's have dinner at McDonald's.
> 
> _You can have one escargot for dinner and it's still dinner -- just a little meager. Although it was a big deal in the snail's day.


Thank you. I got it.


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## blueberrymuffin

What is the difference between dinner and supper?
Thank you!


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## natkretep

Blueberrymuffin, I merged your thread to an older one. Please look at the posts here for the answer to your question. You're welcome to post a follow-up question if the difference is still not clear.

Nat


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## Brioche

blueberrymuffin said:


> What is the difference between dinner and supper?
> Thank you!



The answer depends on where you live.


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## timpeac

Copyright said:


> To repeat myself with fewer words: *Breakfast, Lunch,  Dinner* -- all based on time and nothing else. Forget *Supper *even though my dear grandmother used it.
> _
> Where did you have dinner?
> At McDonald's.
> 
> Let's have dinner at McDonald's.
> 
> _You can have one escargot for dinner and it's still dinner -- just a little meager. Although it was a big deal in the snail's day.


I'm not sure I completely agree. The words are time-based, I agree, (and it is also breakfast, lunch, dinner for me - although the above discussion shows that this isn't the same for everyone) but whether I would consider McDonald's or one escargot to be dinner wouldn't only depend on it being eaten in the evening, but also if I considered it to be my main meal. For example, I might be aware that I will be having dinner with friends very late - say 10pm - and so I might have a McDonald's at 7pm to "keep me going". I wouldn't consider that to be my dinner, just a snack.


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## Enquiring Mind

This thread will run and run (and run, and run, and run) folks!   As we can see from the many posts, it's a bit of *a dog's breakfast!* 
It depends on all sorts of imponderables and variables such as where you come from, your age, your social class, long-standing family convention, and so forth.  In fact, in my experience, it's one of the main conversation subjects at the dinner (or should that be supper?) table.
For all those baffled learners of English, you can always avoid potential misunderstanding by talking about "the midday meal" and "the evening meal" and ask your hosts/guests what they call it.  The perfect ice-breaker.  Enjoy your meal!


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## PaulQ

Wait! I have not had my say yet.  

PaulQ’s Guide to Civilised Dining:

Breakfast  = Anything eaten shortly after rising and not later than 11:00hrs.
Brunch = a late breakfast or an early lunch.
Lunch = A meal started after midday and before 14:30hrs 
_16:01 – 17:29hrs - a gentleman will not eat between these times, nor will he require a lady to.
_Dinner = A meal, usually substantial, usually cooked, started after 17:30Hrs and before 21:00hrs
Supper = A light meal started not earlier than 90 minutes before going to bed and not earlier than 21:30hrs.


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## Brioche

PaulQ said:


> Wait! I have not had my say yet.
> 
> PaulQ’s Guide to Civilised Dining:
> 
> Breakfast  = Anything eaten shortly after rising and not later than 11:00hrs.
> Brunch = a late breakfast or an early lunch.
> Lunch = A meal started after midday and before 14:30hrs
> _16:01 – 17:29hrs - a gentleman will not eat between these times, nor will he require a lady to.
> _Dinner = A meal, usually substantial, usually cooked, started after 17:30Hrs and before 21:00hrs
> Supper = A light meal started not earlier than 90 minutes before going to bed and not earlier than 21:30hrs.



Dinner not served before 17:30 hours?

Those UK children who have *school dinners* must very hungry by m'lud's dinner time!

And if the Duchess of Bedford called, when would you serve afternoon tea?


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## PaulQ

Brioche said:


> Dinner not served before 17:30 hours?
> 
> Those UK children who have *school dinners* must very hungry by dinner time!


I suppose orphans, feral children, ragamuffins, and child criminals, at what they laughingly call school, may eat crusts and drink water at any time and call it 'dinner'. I assure you they are not to be relied upon in such serious matters!


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## Poland91pl

This question and the following posts have been added to our comprehensive thread on what we call various meals and when we eat them.    DonnyB - moderator]
Hello. When do people usually eat lunch in the UK and the US? in books they usually say they eat dinner at 5.pm. here in Poland we eat it at around 2 3pm


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## tunaafi

There is no standard time for lunch in the UK, though it doesn't often begin before noon or end after 2pm.


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## Uncle Jack

There is a considerable amount of variation. If the main meal is in the evening, it necessarily takes place after people are home from work/school, which would make 5 pm very early (most people don't finish work till about five, and then they need to get home and cook). Six or seven in the evening would be far more likely.

Midday meals are usually between twelve and two, as tunaafi says. Twelve would be rather early for most people, unless they missed breakfast.

Either of these could be the main meal of the day. I suspect that about 80% of people in Britain have the main meal in the evening, but there are a significant number who have it in the middle of the say, and of course it is possible to do different things on different days or in different situations..


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## RM1(SS)

I got used to the US Navy's hours -- lunch 1100-1200, supper 1700-1800.  Now that I'm retired, though, I'm seldom up before 0900, so I eat lunch around 1400 and supper sometime between 1700 and bed.


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## sdgraham

Poland91pl said:


> Hello. When do people usually eat lunch in the UK and the US? in books they usually say they eat dinner at 5.pm. here in Poland we eat it at around 2 3pm


Which are you asking about In the U.S. "lunch" on work days is around noon and "dinner," the evening meal is usually 6-7 p.m.   
Your unidentified "books" seem to be "out of whack," as we sometimes say.
(... and my wife and I had no trouble eating lunch at midday or dinner around 6 p.m. on a great driving trip through Poland a couple of years ago. )


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## london calling

Poland91pl said:


> This question and the following posts have been added to our comprehensive thread on what we call various meals and when we eat them.    DonnyB - moderator]
> Hello. When do people usually eat lunch in the UK and the US? in books they usually say they eat dinner at 5.pm. here in Poland we eat it at around 2 3pm


Dinner at 5 pm? Where did you hear that?  As the others have said there are considerable differences but dinner is generally around  19:00h in the UK.  Lunch is normally between 12:00 and 14:00h.


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## Roxxxannne

I guess that lunch usually begins sometime between 12:00 and 1:00 for people in white-collar jobs in the US.
Supper (aka dinner) at home begins around 6:00 or 7:00 or later.  It depends on when people get home from work.  
When the shift at a mill or boatyard ends at 3:30 or so, people might eat supper early, maybe around 5:00.  At least they used to when I was a kid.   In that case, all your meals are skewed early compared to someone with a 9-5 job.


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## kentix

One group in the U.S. that is famous for eating dinner at 5 pm (or even earlier) is retired people. They don't go to work and don't have to get home after work so they can eat whatever time they want. For large numbers of them, that means around 5 pm. It's sometimes humorously referred to as "old people time". That's not true for all of them, of course.

Why Do Elderly Parents Eat Dinner So Early? Senior Nutrition

I would say between 5 and 7 pm is a fairly standard time in the U.S. for most people.


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## Keith Bradford

A point that nobody seems to have emphasised is that supper is in almost every case* the last meal* of the day, whatever you call the others.  On the rare occasions when I use the word (being one of the breakfast - morning coffee - lunch - afternoon tea - dinner school), it's a cold collation very late in the evening when we're getting peckish from staying up very late.  Eaten on a tray in front of the fire, not at the dining-table.  It doesn't often include soup, even though that's what *sup*_per _means. (A gentleman would not keep his servants up late to prepare something hot!)


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## london calling

Not necessarily a light meal, although I confess that's what supper is to me too. Someone from the north of England above mentioned it was their evening meal in their part of the country.


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## natkretep

We always talk about the Last Supper though, don't we, not the Last Dinner?


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## sitifan

"Nobody else does. Really and truly. I mean the people at school's houses that I've stayed at, everybody waits on themselves, and *it's practically always supper, not dinner, *and nobody dreams of changing their clothes. And at Rockingham, which is the only grand place I ever go to, there's a butler and a proper dinner. I don't mean that we don't get proper food here, mummie, but it isn't exactly dinner, is it? I mean, not compared to aunt Venetia's." [quoted from _Late and Soon_, by E. M. Delafield (1890-1943)]


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## mr cat

What is your question sitifan?


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## sitifan

mr cat said:


> What is your question sitifan?


In my quotation, supper refers to an informal meal eaten in the evening but dinner refers to a formal one, don't they?


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## mr cat

sitifan said:


> In my quotation, supper refers to an informal meal eaten in the evening but dinner refers to a formal one, don't they?


Kind of, I think he's implying more that it's insubstantial, maybe that it's later in the evening too.


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## Uncle Jack

sitifan said:


> In my quotation, supper refers to an informal meal eaten in the evening but dinner refers to a formal one, don't they?


The meal is the same. The main meal of the day, eaten in the evening. The difference is how formal it is.

"Changing their clothes" means (for men) putting on a dinner suit (or a military dress uniform), a practice that lasted in Britain into the 1960s (there are mentions of this being a regular occurrence in _A Murder of Quality_ by John le Carré, written in 1962). It is very hard to imagine now that large numbers of people used to put on evening dress every single evening. In previous times, some people even used to put on evening wear when dining alone, as the narrator of _The Riddle of the Sands_ by Erskine Childers (written in 1903) mentioned doing at the beginning of the book.


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