# About Beauty



## Artrella

Last Sunday I was reading a magazine that comes with the newspaper and there was an article entitled "La Belleza Global" (The global Beauty)

There was an excerpt that caught my attention and left me thinking... I'm going to transcribe it in Spanish. Please could anyone translate it into English for the rest to understand it?
Here:
" Tales de Mileto, uno de los siete sabios de Grecia, decía: Si la belleza de tu rostro te abre las puertas, sólo la belleza de tus modales puede  mantenerlas abiertas".    This comes in connection to plastic surgery and the increasing number of women -in particular- that undergo that kind of surgery.

What do you think?


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## pinkpanter

Astrella, it means that one person can be beautiful and that is an advantageous thing at the beginning but if that person does not have other good qualities, -in this case good manners- she won't succeed in life. Hope this helps.


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## DDT

Translation (Sorry for the form, English natives don't hesitate to correct me, please): Thales of Mileto, one amidst the Seven Sages in ancient Greece, said: "If a beautiful face can open every door, only beautiful manners will keep them open" 

I think that we're being continously bombed by messages about exterior beauty and other...beautiful "values" belonging to the vacuum...as a result lots of people are suffering with inferiority complex. Et voilà! Plastic surgery is the magical treatment (not solving the problem at all, how could ever a surgeon heal such an inner disease as the lack of self-confidence?) answering to new needs being forged on purpose by media...magicians!


DDT


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## Mitcheck

According to  Mileto, one of the seven wise people of Greece, said:  "If the beauty of your face opens the doors to you, only the beauty of your manners can maintain them open."
What he meant, the outer beauty is passing and useless if a person has no real beauty that comes from within (good attitude)  that has something to do towards herself and to the others.


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## chica11

The problem with the world wide media today and this trend towards fixing your life through plastic surgery is that it doesn't always work.  I'm not against plastic surgery if you are doing it for yourself and yourself only but I am against plastic surgery if you believe it's going to get you something from someone else that you don't already have.  You can't fix what's wrong on the inside (bad attitude, depression, anger etc) by fixing something on the outside.  And I worry that some/many people who get plastic surgeries believe their lives will change drastically, people will view them in a better light and everything will be better.  That is hardly ever the case.  Because in my opinion, if you don't like the way you look, and you get plastic surgery to fix what you don't like, then you'll most likely find something else that you physically don't like.  The cycle never ends because you are covering up the wound not healing it.  

Just my 2 cents!
saludos!


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## Mitcheck

All of us have a right to attractiveness and graciousness. Yeah some of us even have a plastic surgery to have a flawless appearance and to hide the inferiorities that we once have. Hence, the more we look good the more confident we are and at most we tend to forget what we really are.
Actually a _truly beautiful appearance is not prompted by a desire to show off or to gain praise; it comes from a desire to communicate with others and to serve them as pleasingly as possible. It is a quality of contact more pleasant. _


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## astronauta

I just think it is unbelievable the amount of pain, time off work, effort, money and safety that some people are willing to invest in order to look "good" (or not!).

I am no beauty but I AM A CHICKEN


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## Edher

Saludos,

      Artrella, I love the fact that you used a maxim as the base of a topic, I always find them enigmatic and deeply meaningful. Therefore, it's only fair and polite for me to answer you with a little philosophical story by Plato.

       Once there was an artist in the process of painting a sculpture of a man, then a person passed by and asked him.

"Why are you painting his eyes brown instead of a beautiful vivid red?"

The artist answered "I wouldn't make a pair of eyes so beautiful that they would stop being what they really are; a pair of eyes."

        In other words, one shouldn't risk function for beauty. That seems to be the case with aesthetic surgery. By the mere desire of wanting to enhance the appearance of a certain part of the body, one could lose the function of that part, or what's even worse, the function of the whole body. 

Ya viste Artrella, si le entre duro a la filosofia,

Edher


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## Everness

Artrella said:
			
		

> " Tales de Mileto, uno de los siete sabios de Grecia, decía: Si la belleza de tu rostro te abre las puertas, sólo la belleza de tus modales puede  mantenerlas abiertas".



*"Si la belleza de tu rostro te abre las puertas, no te puedes ni imaginar lo que tus pechos implantados abrirán". *  Everness


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## Benjy

but i think looking in the mirror and finding youself "attractive" has nothing to do with how you look and everything to do with how you feel. which is why there are tons of depressed pretty girls who think they are ugly and loadds of euhm, plainer girls who are a million times more attractive because they feel good about themselves.


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## meili

I agree Benjy! If you feel good, then you look good.  Be confident.  In my case, I'm just the way I am - Me! 
Just today before going to work, I was combing my hair when a girl friend told me that a guy approached her last night while walking home - and she's even shuddering while counting her story.  I told her that if it had been me blah, blah, blah.  My friend looked at me, raised her eyebrow and said: 'Don't worry Cheng, nobody will dare come near you.' And then we all burst out laughing!
I am one of those plain girls, plainer I think, and I know I am not a 'beauty attractive.'  But who cares?! I have my family, my bestfriend, my special friend, my friends and my fan's club! jajajaja!  I may not be as beautiful as Dayanara Torres but I have a magnet with people!  (Do I sound so over confident? - Sorry!)


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## Fernando

Everness said:
			
		

> *"Si la belleza de tu rostro te abre las puertas, no te puedes ni imaginar lo que tus pechos implantados abrirán". *  Everness



Very good, Everness.

Are all of you seriously saying that beauty is a today business?. I like History and throughtout time people (mainly but not only, women) have been worried of their personal appearance. That is not even a bad thing. This way people take a shower from time to time.  

It is normal we look for beauty, both for eugenetical reasons (I suppose the evolution should have given us a taste for beauty mates for 'producing' healthy children) and simply because we like to be surrounded for beauty. 

The only difference today is we can change our personal appearance for ever and that we can see the most beauty males/females bodies in TV whenever you want. But I can not feel this is a real difference. People always compare to someone else.


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## Isotta

I would not write off plastic surgery completely. I don’t have any use for it, but there are many kinds of plastic surgery that correct non-normative physical effects from genetic disorders and whatnot. 


 Grooming does a lot. I’ve known many people who have been dealt a genetically poor lot but who know to prepare a nice face, hair, wardrobe, etc. 

     Despite the beauty market, variability between individuals’ tastes is surprising, if not encouraging.

 I agree that other qualities such as confidence or intellect can make a person more attractive to others, even if said person is not aesthetically striking. I wish people gave compliments based on smarts more often than they do on beauty. 

 That said, a good-looking person generally receives different treatment than does an average-to-plain person. A pretty face opens many doors. However I’ve noticed a pretty face can often keep them open, regardless of its owner’s comportment. 

 What about Keat’s famous quote, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know" (read the whole poem here)? Do you agree with this?

     Isotta.


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## Everness

Food for thought: When it comes to looks, which of these possibilities is non-existent? 

a) The way you actually look. 
b) The way you believe that other people see you.
c) The way other people see you.
d) The way you see yourself.


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## monay

Everness said:
			
		

> Food for thought: When it comes to looks, which of these possibilities is non-existent?
> 
> a) The way you actually look.
> b) The way you believe that other people see you.
> c) The way other people see you.
> d) The way you see yourself.


 
i agree.... thats why you need to believe in yourself. dont pretend of what you are not.. we only have one life to live in this great biosphere. enjoy the life wherein beauty begins from whithin..


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## Artrella

Benjy said:
			
		

> but i think looking in the mirror and finding youself "attractive" has nothing to do with how you look and everything to do with how you feel. which is why there are tons of depressed pretty girls who think they are ugly and loadds of euhm, plainer girls who are a million times more attractive because they feel good about themselves.




You are right Benjy.... but is this possible in nowadays society?  I mean, with lots and lots of magazines, advertisments, that show big-breasted, blonde, blue-eyed girls??? How can a "plain" girl feel attractive with that barrage of "voluptuous" bodies invading everyday life?  That requires a lot of "mental control" and self-assurance...


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## Benjy

mm, love and attention?  seriously though, it just needs taking a step back from the media. i know the pressures on men and women are really different but for example the "ideal" bloke is supposed to be about 6" and pretty well stacked. probably 170-180 pounds. i fit the height catagory, but my weight is way below. do i care? not a jot. i am in the best shape of my life and have no intention of going out and buying a ton of crash weight gain protein powder and hitting the weights just because the last deodorant ad that i saw showed some uber ripped guy getting the girl.

and the other thing is, women that get all these "enhancements" and slap on tons of war paint end up just looking unatural in the end. because it isnt natural to have bits inserted all over your body to make it fit a silhoutte that nature never envisioned. it just looks weird.


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## Artrella

Edher said:
			
		

> Saludos,
> 
> Artrella, I love the fact that you used a maxim as the base of a topic, I always find them enigmatic and deeply meaningful. Therefore, it's only fair and polite for me to answer you with a little philosophical story by Plato.
> 
> Once there was an artist in the process of painting a sculpture of a man, then a person passed by and asked him.
> 
> "Why are you painting his eyes brown instead of a beautiful vivid red?"
> 
> The artist answered "I wouldn't make a pair of eyes so beautiful that they would stop being what they really are; a pair of eyes."
> 
> In other words, one shouldn't risk function for beauty. That seems to be the case with aesthetic surgery. By the mere desire of wanting to enhance the appearance of a certain part of the body, one could lose the function of that part, or what's even worse, the function of the whole body.
> 
> Ya viste Artrella, si le entre duro a la filosofia,
> 
> Edher





Edher, I like your answer and that anecdote by Plato.  I entirely agree with you and with Plato and the artist.  Anyway I don't think things work like this nowadays.  I wish they worked like this anecdote!  Sometimes (most of the times) the outside counts more than the inside... not for me fortunately....that's why I'm surrounded by the best friends in the world!!


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## Merlin

"What is beauty when the brain is empty?" (Although physical beauty counts, sometimes... )The thing come out my mind upon reading this thread. The real beauty of a person comes from within. It's the inner soul that reflects the real beauty of a person. Although I'm not against beauty products or fixing yourself to be beautiful. It helps actually. But the beauty inside will make you more beautiful. People will admire you. It will lift your physical beauty. Surgery is not that bad especially if you need it. Making yourself beautiful is a normal thing to do. But doing things that make your beauty "fake" (things that don't look good on you) is the worst thing to do. Simplicity is beauty.


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## Artrella

Merlin said:
			
		

> "What is beauty when the brain is empty?" (Although physical beauty counts, sometimes... )The thing come out my mind upon reading this thread. The real beauty of a person comes from within. It's the inner soul that reflects the real beauty of a person. Although I'm not against beauty products or fixing yourself to be beautiful. It helps actually. But the beauty inside will make you more beautiful. People will admire you. It will lift your physical beauty. Surgery is not that bad especially if you need it. Making yourself beautiful is a normal thing to do. But doing things that make your beauty "fake" (things that don't look good on you) is the worst thing to do. Simplicity is beauty.




You are the man Merlin!!! (or girl...but I think this is a fixed phrase..right?)...I agree with you, however many people choose for what they see...then they realize if a person is empty or not... but this takes some time...


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## Merlin

Artrella said:
			
		

> You are the man Merlin!!! (or girl...but I think this is a fixed phrase..right?)...I agree with you, however many people choose for what they see...then they realize if a person is empty or not... but this takes some time...


I'm a man.  Gee thanks.... Well I'm just sharing what I normally observe everyday. It's really annoying to see someone whose beauty is obviously fake. The worst thing is to see someone so beautiful but don't have the brains nor inner beauty. Wishing everyone a good day/night! Don't forget to smile    ...it adds beauty and it makes you feel good.


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## Everness

Merlin said:
			
		

> "What is beauty when the brain is empty?" (Although physical beauty counts, sometimes... )The thing come out my mind upon reading this thread. The real beauty of a person comes from within. It's the inner soul that reflects the real beauty of a person. Although I'm not against beauty products or fixing yourself to be beautiful. It helps actually. But the beauty inside will make you more beautiful. People will admire you. It will lift your physical beauty. Surgery is not that bad especially if you need it. Making yourself beautiful is a normal thing to do. But doing things that make your beauty "fake" (things that don't look good on you) is the worst thing to do. Simplicity is beauty.



The inner vs. outer beauty debate can be traced to the Bible, that, as expected, picks the former over the latter as what's desirable. (By the way, these recommendations were made mostly by guys.) So your reflections make a lot of sense in that type of context. But in our visually-oriented world where Hollywood has the final word on what's beautiful and ugly, our current criteria are based --whether we like it or not-- on what you see with your eyes and not on what you can infer from having a conversation with someone, especially a woman. 

That's why we are losing to many adolescent girls to anorexia and bulimia...


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## Artrella

Everness said:
			
		

> The inner vs. outer beauty debate can be traced to the Bible, that, as expected, picks the former over the latter as what's desirable. (By the way, these recommendations were made mostly by guys.) So your reflections make a lot of sense in that type of context. But in our visually-oriented world where Hollywood has the final word on what's beautiful and ugly, our current criteria are based --whether we like it or not-- on what you see with your eyes and not on what you can infer from having a conversation with someone, especially a woman.
> 
> That's why we are losing to many adolescent girls to anorexia and bulimia...




Right Everness... first of all you see beauty (physical beauty)...then you begin to talk with this person and if you find out that she/he has inner beauty so much the better... but what comes first in "our society" nowadays is physical beauty....this is terrible...but it is like this...and being "thin" is a synonym of beauty... thin, big-breasted...etc...


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## GenJen54

What we seem to forget, too, is that beauty is in the "eye of the beholder."  

Different cultural values place different emphasis on what is considered beautiful in a given society. The "Barbie Doll" image of what is considered "ideal" in US society is not necessarily considered beautiful in other parts of the world. 

Benjy got it right when he said: 





> because it isnt natural to have bits inserted all over your body to make it fit a silhoutte that nature never envisioned. it just looks weird.



So many people who become "victims" of plastic surgery lose sight of who they are internally. They become a mockery of themselves and lose their authenticity.

It is a foible of humankind that we seek what is outwardly beautiful, although ironically, if it were not for outward beauty we might not feel attracted enough to someone to discover what inner beauties they might have. 

Everness posted:



> Food for thought: When it comes to looks, which of these possibilities is non-existent?
> 
> a) The way you actually look.
> b) The way you believe that other people see you.
> c) The way other people see you.
> d) The way you see yourself.[/q]
> 
> The only one of these possibilities that is non-existent, is "the way you actually look." Who is to say what you actually look like? How you view yourself can be quite a bit different than the way other people see you and even the way you believe other people view you. None can be the same.
> 
> All it takes is a quick look in the mirror on a daily basis. My perception of myself changes based upon my mood, level of fatique, quite literally how I perceive myself inwardly that day.
> 
> If I am emotionally misaligned for whatever reason, then the true person of who I am is not reflected in what I see in the mirror, and is certainly obscured from others.


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## meili

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Everness posted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Food for thought: When it comes to looks, which of these possibilities is non-existent?
> 
> a) The way you actually look.
> b) The way you believe that other people see you.
> c) The way other people see you.
> d) The way you see yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one of these possibilities that is non-existent, is "the way you actually look."
Click to expand...

 
I second the motion Ms GenJen!

We can never know how we actually look. We face the mirror after we 'groom' ourselves, see that we made good, walk out the door and feel like we are on top of the world. Then here comes several groups of types of people who will look at us differently - different from how we saw ourselves before we left home. What might be beautiful to one is not beautiful to the other, or vice versa.

As what Ms Nilda said: Coming to know the inner beauty of a person (especially of a woman) will take some time. And I hate to admit it, as somebody who is on the 'plainer' side of things, those with super model bodies, shampoo commercial-like hairs, hollywood actress like faces, and so on and so forth - are the ones who gets the most attentions (and at times - positions - at work). However still, I think that the most happiest of all parties would be those who had been together as friends - for genuine friends will know you, and will be magnetized to you, more, because of what you have in the inside - and in the head. (At least, in my experience).

Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What may be beautiful to you may not be necessarily beautiful to me, in one way or the other.


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## Artrella

I am really happy of reading these posts of yours.... so we still have hope... not all the people are _plastic_ people... It's really important to me to know that you think as I do...


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## meili

Artrella said:
			
		

> I am really happy of reading these posts of yours.... so we still have hope... not all the people are _plastic_ people... It's really important to me to know that you think as I do...


 
Oh yes Ms. Nilda.. And I think you are not only beautiful, but very beautiful.  I believe you have them all - beautiful face and body , a beautiful heart, and an intelligent - not to mention, wise - mind.
De acuerdo?


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## luar

No podemos engañarnos queriendo tapar el sol con un dedo: Beautiful people are generally perceived as more intelligent, competent, appealing and healthier than less attractive ones. Having that in mind, it is not hard to understand why some of us would do anything necessary to become official members of this selected group. The saddest part is that no matter how many plastic surgeries we might have, the voices inside would not stay quiet. They would keep saying: _The other side is greener. You better buy something to dye your grass a little bit more. _

I think there is nothing wrong in trying to make our bodies more beautiful; although, there are some risks, for example: believe that physical beauty is the passport to happinessland; or comprise our general wellbeing just to make ourselves physically attractive, according to the standards set by society. The problem is embedded in our value system. Beauty is important; we are naturally tended towards it; we like to be surrounded by beautiful things, places and peoples. The challenge is to place unconditional self-acceptance higher than any other value, even pleasant ones like beauty.


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## Artrella

meili said:
			
		

> Oh yes Ms. Nilda.. And I think you are not only beautiful, but very beautiful.  I believe you have them all - beautiful face and body , a beautiful heart, and an intelligent - not to mention, wise - mind.
> De acuerdo?




  Thank you Meili!


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