# The girl who wrote this book in the library was sick



## iwani

Assalamualaikum. I have just learnt a new Arabic sentence structure and I want to make sure I have understood it. If there are any mistakes, do advise me.. Syukran 

1. The girl who read this book in the library was sick

مَرِضَتِ البِنتُ الَّتِي كَتَبَتْ فِي المَكْتَبَةِ هَذَا الكِتَابَ
 
2. The girl who the man met (her) in the house was sick

مَرِضَتِ البِنتُ الَّتِي قَابَلَهَا فِي البَيْتِ الرَّجُلُ


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## إسكندراني

التي قرأت في المكتبة


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## iwani

Oops, I'm sorry I meant to say "The girl who wrote this book in the library was sick"

Alhamdulillah syukran for your reply  إسكندراني

Other than that mistake, are my sentences okay?


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## آمين

"The girl who wrote this book in the library was sick"

البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت المريضة

- -

The girl who the man met (her) in the house was sick

البنت التي قابلها الرجل في البيت كانت المريضة


PS - I think it is:

The girl whom the man met (her) in the house was sick


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## iwani

Oops! Yes, sorry and thank you for pointing out that silly mistake.

Thanks for correcting my Arabic too! I just learnt about kaana last Sunday!


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## إسكندراني

Your sentences are fine but they mean she fell ill. And i would prefer to bring هذا الكتاب before في المكتبة


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## akhooha

آمين said:


> "The girl who wrote this book in the library was sick"
> البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت المريضة
> The girl who the man met (her) in the house was sick
> البنت التي قابلها الرجل في البيت كانت المريضة...



If you say كانت المريضة you're saying "...was the sick one".
I think you have to change it to كانت مريضة to mean "... was sick"


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## آمين

akhooha said:


> If you say كانت المريضة you're saying "...was the sick one".
> I think you have to change it to كانت مريضة to mean "... was sick"



"...was the sick one" in other words "she was sick". The thing is, as far I know as we have already identified the girl then it is more appropriate to use the al- . . . but please explain more.


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## eastren

الفتاة التي تكتب هذا الكتاب في مكتب كانت مريضة.
In my little attempt this will guide you. if someone explain better reply fast.


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## akhooha

آمين said:


> "...was the sick one" in other words "she was sick". The thing is, as far I know as we have already identified the girl then it is more appropriate to use the al- . . . but please explain more.


I'm not sure I understand you.  Are you saying that "_that girl was sick_" has for you exactly the same meaning as "_that girl was the sick one_"? They don't mean the same to me in English, and neither does "تلك البنت كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic...


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## آمين

akhooha said:


> I'm not sure I understand you.  Are you saying that "_that girl was sick_" has for you exactly the same meaning as "_that girl was the sick one_"? They don't mean the same to me in English, and neither does "تلك البنت كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic...



'the girl who was sick' is about same as saying 'the girl [the sick one]' - the understood meaning is the same - you are simply describing a girl who is sick by using different words, structure. 

- - 



> تلك البنت كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic



*raises eyebrows*


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## akhooha

> Originally Posted by *akhooha*
> I'm not sure I understand you.  Are you saying that "_that girl was sick_" has for you exactly the same meaning as "_that girl was the sick one_"?  They don't mean the same to me in English, and neither does "تلك البنت  كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic...





> 'the girl who was sick' is about same as saying 'the girl [the  sick one]' - the understood meaning is the same - you are simply  describing a girl who is sick by using different words, structure.


Now I'm thoroughly puzzled. I asked if you thought "_that girl was sick_" has for you exactly the same meaning as "_that girl was the sick one_"? and you are now bringing up two other phrases which hadn't even been mentioned...


> تلك البنت كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic





> *raises eyebrows*


Can you explain what it is that raises your eyebrows? I'd said _and neither does_ "تلك البنت  كانت مريذة" _mean the same as _"تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ"_ in Arabic_


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## آمين

> Can you explain what it is that raises your eyebrows? I'd said _and neither does_ "تلك البنت  كانت مريذة" _mean the same as _"تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ"_ in Arabic_



1. What is مريذة ?

2. المريذةَ - Tanween and ال never feature together.

3. 





> تلك البنت  كانت مريذة" mean the same as "تلك البنتُ كانت المريذةَ" in Arabic


 - You have simply repeated the same thing and not explained the reasoning why . . . which is what I wanted to learn. 

- - - 



> Now I'm thoroughly puzzled. I asked if you thought "_that girl was sick_" has for you exactly the same meaning as "_that girl was the sick one_"? and you are now bringing up two other phrases which hadn't even been mentioned...



I am just trying to explain my self . . . sometimes you can use different words and sentence structure to mean the same thing. 

For example:

1. The boy who ate the apple is fat.
2. That boy who ate the apple is the fat one. 

Are more or less same in the sense that you get the same info. . .  hence:

كانت المريضة

Is using al- in the above example incorrect Arabic-wise?


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## AndyRoo

آمين said:


> 1.
> 
> كانت المريضة
> 
> Is using al- in the above example incorrect Arabic-wise?



It's correct Arabic, but as akhooha said, it means "she was the sick one" (and not, say, the healthy one) so it doesn't have the same meaning as the original question.


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## akhooha

Ah.... I see that a ذ where there should have been a ض is what raised your eyebrows, as well as the missing ال, so here's the correction:


> I'd said _and neither does_ "تلك البنت  كانت المريضة" _mean the same as _"تلك البنتُ كانت مريضة"_ in Arabic_


(sorry for the confusion)
I've no idea what you're referring to when you say: "Tanween and ال never feature together".   I don't think that I'd featured them together.....

Anyway, if you see no difference between "that girl was the sick one" and "that girl was sick" in English, then I don't think I'll be able to convince you that there is a difference between تلك البنت  كانت المريضة and تلك البنتُ كانت مريضة in Arabic


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## dkarjala

آمين said:


> "...was the sick one" in other words "she was sick". The thing is, as far I know as we have already identified the girl then it is more appropriate to use the al- . . . but please explain more.



You're not far from the right way of thinking; however, you have already identified *the girl* you have _not_ already identified that she or anyone else is sick. "Sick" is new information and should be *indefinite. *


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## آمين

I have become quite confused now! 

I understand that normally كانت مريضة 'She was ill' is the right way.

However - if you say:

كانت المريضة - translates as "She was the sick one" only . . 

Then this would not work for many other words . . . for example:

كانت الطالبة - "She was the student one" - doesn't make much sense . . so "She was the student" - seems to be right translation here. 


So . . . 

البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت الطالبة 

The girl who wrote this book in the library was the student. 

Vs

البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت طالبة 

The girl who wrote this book in the library was a student. 

I don't know . . . perhaps now someone can explain it!




dkarjala said:


> You're not far from the right way of thinking; however, you have already identified *the girl* you have _not_ already identified that she or anyone else is sick. "Sick" is new information and should be *indefinite. *



I am happy with this! . . . but this lot said there is nothing Arabic-wise wrong with leaving the al- in . . . it is just that hte meaning will be changed. But I do not see how meaning is all that radically altered. 

- -


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## dkarjala

آمين said:


> I am happy with this! . . . but this lot said there is nothing Arabic-wise wrong with leaving the al- in . . . it is just that hte meaning will be changed. But I do not see how meaning is all that radically altered.
> 
> - -



It's a completely different meaning, in fact. The word طالبة is a *noun*. The word مريضة is an *adjective* - so to begin with, you see they are in different categories. When you add الـ to an adjective, you make it into a noun. Saying المريضة is like saying البنت المريضة. People use the translation "one" because in English, we can't just "use" an adjective like a noun the way you can in Arabic, or even German and French, among others. 

If you want to say "the girl was sick" and you say "the girl was the sick one" it's not radically altered - it's a different meaning, and, frankly, incorrect. It would be like saying "I am the American" instead of "I am (an) American".


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## cherine

Hi,

Just to confirm what others said, the correct translation is:
البنت التي كتب هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت مريضة


آمين said:


> However - if you say:
> 
> كانت المريضة - translates as "She was the sick one" only . .
> 
> Then this would not work for many other words . . . for example:
> 
> كانت الطالبة - "She was the student one" - doesn't make much sense . . so "She was the student" - seems to be right translation here.



Right. كانت الطالبة means "she was the student", and كانت طالبة means "she was a student". That is the difference, and I don't understand why you can't see the difference. 


> So...
> البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت الطالبة
> The girl who wrote this book in the library was the student.
> 
> Vs
> البنت التي كتبت هذا الكتاب في المكتبة كانت طالبة
> The girl who wrote this book in the library was a student.


Exactly.

The same for "she was the sick one" and "she was sick". It's as if there's a group of persons, or 2 persons, one is sick and one is not, and we want to specify which one we're talking about. Herem we'd use كانت المريضة vs. كانت الصحيحة/المُعافاة/السليمة
But if we just need to describe the state of the girl, we don't need al-, but just كانت مريضة.

I hope it's a bit clearer now.


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## fdb

آمين said:


> "The girl who wrote this book in the library was sick"



This is the sort of sentence that you read in text books, but which no one ever says in real life. That is the reason why all of the proposed Arabic versions sound stilted as well.


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## إسكندراني

آمين said:


> 1.
> 1. The boy who ate the apple is fat.
> 2. That boy who ate the apple is the fat one.


These are not the same for two reasons, which should be clear by comparing the sentences in either language.
١. الغلام الذي أكل التفاحة سمين
٢. ذاك الغلام الذي أكل التفاحة السمين


fdb said:


> This is the sort of sentence that you read in text books, but which no one ever says in real life. That is the reason why all of the proposed Arabic versions sound stilted as well.


It's rather uncreative considering the wealth of human endeavour unrelated to books, but perhaps the speaker is justifying the poor quality of the girl's work? It's not an absurd sentence, only uninspired.


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## iwani

fdb said:


> This is the sort of sentence that you read in text books, but which no one ever says in real life. That is the reason why all of the proposed Arabic versions sound stilted as well.



I'm sorry @fdb but yes you're 100% correct and I feel guilty for doing this to all of you but I appreciate the feedback so much. I will definitely come back when I've learnt more stuff to reread the discussion and learn from it. I'm still a newbie, just started learning in April 2013. InsyaAllah I'll get over creating textbook sentences soon


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## iwani

Just thought I should share this with you guys to make things clearer, this is the sentence (from Dr Yusuf Al-Qaradawi's book) that I learnt 2 weeks ago and I just wanted to see if I got the structure right hence I created this post. Sorry for the mess guys


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## akhooha

Looks like he should have employed a proofreader for his book ---
he spells محمد as "مهمد" ...


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## iwani

Astaghfirullahalazim that was my class notes and I made that typo. Yikes. Thanks for pointing it out akhooha


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