# Ukrainian: i - ї - и - й (pronunciation)



## arhall2

I'm having some trouble with how to pronounce a few vowels.  Here they are an an explanation of how my resources say to pronounce them.  

і- ee, as in meet
ї- yee
и- ih, like myth.  This one gives me trouble.  As an American I have always pronounced Київ as Key-yev.  When I think of this, it makes me think и should make an EEY sound, but that doesn't seem to be right.  Perhaps my pronunciation of Kiev is wrong?
й- I think this one makes sort of a "yuh" sound.

With so many similar sounding vowels I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right before I move forward.  

Thanks for all the help this site is great!

Any yeah, sorry, this is Ukrainian...I forgot that this was an "other" category.


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## Tjahzi

Ehm, should we assume that the language in question is Ukrainian? Other than that, I must say that unless you are familiar with IPA, the only real way to get an idea of how to pronounce these sounds would be to actually hear them. English simply does not have identical equivalents.


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## Sobakus

arhall2 said:


> I'm having some trouble with how to pronounce a few vowels.  Here they are an an explanation of how my resources say to pronounce them.
> 
> і- ee, as in meet
> ї- yee
> и- ih, like myth.  This one gives me trouble.  As an American I have always pronounced Київ as Key-yev.  When I think of this, it makes me think и should make an EEY sound, but that doesn't seem to be right.  Perhaps my pronunciation of Kiev is wrong?
> й- I think this one makes sort of a "yuh" sound.
> 
> With so many similar sounding vowels I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right before I move forward.
> 
> Thanks for all the help this site is great!



Ih is an approximation for ы for an amateur, certainly not a language learner. The easiest way I find to explain it is put your tongue in the postition for "oo"(у) and while not moving your tongue put your lips in the position for "ee"(i). That's the sound if you don't move your tongue. Й is the Y consonant, as in York.


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## Selyd

Добрий день, *arhall2!*
...
2. *I* вимовляється приблизно як в *eagle* тільки коротке. Довге *і* відсутнє - *bee.*
3. *И *мені здається як в *tiffany.* Вимовляється твердо.
4*. Й *може так, як останній звук в *Hemingway*
5. *Ї* треба почути. Спробуй вимовляти *ЙІ *- Say together
Щасти!


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## arhall2

That actually helps.  I realize trying to describe sounds via text can be tough but I think I have the straight now.

Дякую!


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## Selyd

Вітаю, *arhall2*!
Маєш успіхи. З якою метою вчиш українську?
Хочеш читати, писати тексти, спілкуватися, вільно володіти.
Від цього залажить стратегія роботи в мові.
Що не зрозуміло, питай. Будь дужий!


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## ectuohy

Great answers above--just want to add that the American English pronunciation of Ukraine's capital (which I also say as "Kee-yev," even when I lived there) is based on the Russian form Киев (which actually ends in something like an "f" sound, but I digress).

In Ukrainian, it usually sounds like "Kih-yeev" (with, as *selyd *explains, the vowels of "Tiffany" and "eagle"), although some Western speakers and many in the diaspora pronounce the final consonant as "w"; the latter is also the pronunciation featured in the loudspeaker announcements at the main train station.


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## Selyd

ectuohy said:


> Great answers above--just want to add that the American English pronunciation of Ukraine's capital (which I also say as "Kee-yev," even when I lived there) is based on the Russian form Киев (which actually ends in something like an "f" sound, but I digress).
> 
> In Ukrainian, it usually sounds like "Kih-yeev" (with, as *selyd *explains, the vowels of "Tiffany" and "eagle"), although some Western speakers and many in the diaspora pronounce the final consonant as "w"; the latter is also the pronunciation featured in the loudspeaker announcements at the main train station.


*К_И_Ї_В*
*К* -is clearly.
*И* аnd *І* are different sounds in Ukrainian language.
*Ї* in English is absent.
*F* - sound not peculiar to the Ukrainian language. *хвіртка*, а не *фіртка;* *квасоля*, а не *фасоля;* *Київ*, а не *Кієф; хвала*, а не *фала*; *хвоя*, а не *фоя*; вимовлялось *Хведір*, а не *Федір.*
And if you heard *kiyef* a is not the Ukrainian pronunciation.
I do not know as to show sounds in international sound transcription.
In "Tiffany" It seemed sounds *И* instead of *І*.


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## Tjahzi

И - /y/ - *[ɪ]*
І - /i/  -  _
Ї - /ji/ -  *[ji]*
Й - /j/ -  *[j]*

Hence we get ['kɪjiʋ/w/f] (depending on the realization of /v/), and that pretty much sums the И/І/Ї/Й situation._


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## Selyd

Tjahzi said:


> И - /y/ - *[ɪ]*
> І - /i/ - _
> Ї - /ji/ - *[ji]*
> Й - /j/ - *[j]*
> 
> Hence we get ['kɪjiʋ/w/f] (depending on the realization of /v/), and that pretty much sums the И/І/Ї/Й situation._


_
So* ['kɪji**ʋ].*_


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## Tjahzi

Well, various Wikipedias and grammars that I've consulted give different pronunciations of /v/. Some say it's a labiodental approximant ([ʋ]), some that it's labio-velar approximant ([w]), some that it's normally labiodental, but labio-velar when not followed by a vowel. Additionally, it appears to be a voiced labiodental fricative ([v]) to some (which is then reduced to a voiceless labiodental fricative ([f]) when in final position).

Based on the above, I was under the impression that the realization of /b/ varies to the degree that it would be fair to give more than one definite transcription. This, however, deserves a thread of it's own. We should start one.


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## Selyd

Tjahzi said:


> Well, various Wikipedias and grammars that I've consulted give different pronunciations of /v/. Some say it's a labiodental approximant ([ʋ]), some that it's labio-velar approximant ([w]), some that it's normally labiodental, but labio-velar when not followed by a vowel. Additionally, it appears to be a voiced labiodental fricative ([v]) to some (which is then reduced to a voiceless labiodental fricative ([f]) when in final position).


Different sounds:
в*і*тер - wind
в*е*чір - evening 
в*і*хола - blizzard as Киї*в*
Вовк - wolf В*о*вна - wool В*у*дка - fishing tackle
Reduced to a voiceless labiodental fricative ([f]) when in final position in Rassian. 
In Ukrainian then a bad pronunciation.


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## Tjahzi

Ehm, I'm not sure exactly what you mean to say. Are the *bold* vowels different? Or the /v/ preceding them? 
The devoicing of final obstruents is almost universal among Slavic languages (BCS excluded) and I would be very surprised if it did in fact not include Ukrainian as well. Though it could be the case that /v/ is never realized as a fricative when in final position, when followed by a voiceless obstruent, however, I would be very surprised if it remained a voiced approximant.


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## Selyd

*в*iтер and *В*овк Different sounds.
In Ukrainian Київ not Киїф, мороз not марос, дід not діт, молоко not малако,
морока not марока, обід not обіт etc.


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## JohnDiGriz

Tjahzi said:


> Well, various Wikipedias and grammars that I've consulted give different pronunciations of /v/. Some say it's a labiodental approximant ([ʋ]), some that it's labio-velar approximant ([w]), some that it's normally labiodental, but labio-velar when not followed by a vowel. Additionally, it appears to be a voiced labiodental fricative ([v]) to some (which is then reduced to a voiceless labiodental fricative ([f]) when in final position).
> 
> Based on the above, I was under the impression that the realization of /b/ varies to the degree that it would be fair to give more than one definite transcription. This, however, deserves a thread of it's own. We should start one.


Just like English, Ukrainian doesn't have word-final devoicing. Maybe in some speakers under Russian influence, but I don't think I've heard that


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