# Variable Pronunciation of Consonants across the Dialects



## Arab_Student

Variable Pronunciation of Consonants across the Arabic Dialects in comparison with classical Arabic-

I have gathered a rough list which drafts the pronunciation transgressions in regards to the _tajweed_ rules used for reciting the _Quran_:



Egyptian (Cairene) : ث، ق، ظ، ذ، ج 
Syrian/Lebanese: ث، ق، ظ، ذ، ج 
Sudanese: ث، ق، ظ، ذ 
Gulf: ض، ك، ج، ق 
Jordanian (Male-Bedouin influenced) : ظ، ق 

ث in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and Sudanese is pronounced: س or ت

ق in  Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese is pronounced: أ*
ق in Sudanese: غ or گ (as the *G* in Gate)
ق in Gulf and Jordanian: گ*

ظ in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Sudanese is pronounced: emphatic (heavy) ز 

ذ in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and Sudanese is pronounced: ز or د

ج in Egyptian is pronounced: گ
ج in Syrian/Lebanese is pronounced: ʒ (as the *si* in vi*si*on) ..as opposed to *J* in *J*ack or *G* in *G*eorge.

ج in Gulf: ي* 
ك in Gulf: چ*

ض in Gulf: ظ
*Not in all cases e.g. not with proper nouns​ 
What I wish to discuss- with the _Quran_ being what most scholars deem the purest form of (what is today) Arabic- Which major dialects, including those listed above deviate from the original _Quranic_ Arabic phonetically?

Also it would be wonderful if one were to give us an insight into the _Maghreb_ dialects (i.e. Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Libyan) and comment and/or complete/correct my list where applicable.. Thanks in Advance


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## Hemza

Hello,

It's a bit more complicated from what you gathered and in  spite of all efforts you did (which are already great) it would be too  difficult to make a list of it or to summarise every pronounciation in a  post, because inside a country, it can differs.
For example, you did  well to mention "Cairene", because all Egyptian dialects don't prononce  letters in the same way as Cairene. But for Syrian and Lebanese, you  must be aware that for example, the "ق" pronounciation remains  unchanged in some places and is also pronounced "g" in those dialects too. If you want to  be more accurate, you can also make a split between "Urban dialects",  "rural dialects" and "bedouins dialects", it can help you to dress your  list (it will also make it much longer  but that's the price for being accurate). I'll try to avoid what you already have written.

You've  just forgot to mention some dialects (but that's not a too big  prejudice): Yemeni, Hijazi, Najdi (even if I guess you gathered them  under the term "Gulf"?) and Maghrebi dialects but I'll be glad to help  you about the ones I know (including Moroccan  ).

I'll try to dress a list for dialects I know and to add some minor precisions if I can:

-Letter "ق"
pronounced "*گ*":  in most of the time (I think that majority of speakers pronounce it  this way). It's the case for Arabian dialects, Southern/central Iraqi, rural Levantine,  Sudanese/Chadian, rural Egyptian (+some Urban areas like in Alexandria) Libyan, Southern Tunisia, most of  areas of Algeria, Morocco and all Mauritania. It's also the case for  some Palestinian dialects.

pronounced "*ق*": In Northern Iraq, Eastern Syria, by some communities of Southern Syria/Northern Jordan (Hauran) Lebanon and Palestine (I think  druzes), in some urban and rural areas of Morocco, Algeria, Northern  Tunisia. I don't know about other cases, and I hope someone can add  informations about it.

pronounced "*ء*": in urban areas of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine (not sure for Jordan) and some urban areas of Morocco and Algeria.

As for some Moroccan and Algerian dialects, two forms can coexist ("گ" and "ق") depending of the word.

-Letter "ك":
pronounced "*ك*": in the vast majority of dialects.

pronounced "*تش*": in Gulf dialectS, Iraqi and some Palestinian dialects (again, I have no idea about Jordan) for females (possessive and when you adress them)

pronounced "*تس*": in Bedouin Hijazi and Najdi dialect (same rule as "تش")

-Letter "ج":
pronounced as in "vi*si*on" in Moroccan, Tunisian and Levantine dialects. One exception: in some words in Tunisian, it turns into a "ز" 

pronounced as in "*J*ack"  in Arabian dialects, Algerian (although, even "harder" in Algerian than others) and  I guess for Libyan, Iraqi, Mauritanian and some rural dialects of Egytian, Moroccan and Levantine (I  suppose rural/bedouin about this last?)

pronounced as a mix between "*ج*" and "*ي*" only in Sudanese as far as I know.

pronounced as "*گ*" in urban Egyptian (as you said) and to a lesser extent, in Yemeni, Omani and Moroccan (for Moroccan, it's due to the Yemeni influence I think).

-About Maghrebi dialects:
In Urban Moroccan and Algerian: "ذ", "ض" and "ظ" are pronounced as a "د".
"ث" (th) is pronounced "ت" (t)

In Tunisian, Libyan, Mauritanian, rural/bedouin Moroccan/Algerian, those letters are pronounced like in Arabian dialects (except Urban Hijazi)

Another really odd feature of Urban Moroccan: the "ت" is pronounced as a soft "تس" I never knew why...

I hope it helps you, that it is not too confusing and I also hope I haven't done too many mistakes. It took me time to write this and it's not even accurate enough.

Ps: it took me 30 minutes to write everything


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## MarcB

Hemza "pronounced "*تس*": in Bedouin Hijazi and Najdi dialect."
In Najdi and Yemeni ts for kaf is mostly used for female you, as in ismek (mas) ismits (fem) your name.


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## Hemza

Not only. It's used for example with everyone when you say "كف حالك؟", people may say it (even for males) "تسف حالتس؟"

*Edit*: sorry, I'm quite tired, it's as you said only for females, I don't know why I thought it was for males too while it would never come to my mind to use it when talking to a man...


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## idquod

In addition to what Hemza said there are few more interesting consonant phenomena in Moroccan Arabic:

In the Old Medina dialects of Fes, Rabat, Tetouan and especially amongst Jewish speakers, س and ش are merged as well as ج and ز. This results in interesting homophones like جبل وزبل, and is the object of many jokes and much derision amongst non-merging speakers.

Though not as common, this phenomenon also occurs in general Moroccan Arabic amongst words which have a س and a ش in them or a ز and a ج:
Classical Arabic شمس becomes شمش or سمس
CA زوج [referring to a pair e.g. ازدواج] becomes جوج [meaning اثنان]

In northern Urban and Jebali dialects [Tetouan, Tangier, Chouen] ض is sometimes replaced by ط:
موطع instead of موضع [and instead of بلاسة in standard MA]
عطم instead of عضم which replaces CA's عظم in standard MA

I believe the Hassaniyya dialect maintains distinctions between all of د، ذ، ض، ظ and they replace ث with ف, but I've only heard Hassaniyya speakers a few times so I could be wrong or this could only be true for a specific Hassaniyya dialect.


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## akhooha

idquod said:


> ...I believe the Hassaniyya dialect maintains distinctions between all of د، ذ، ض، ظ and they replace ث with ف, but I've only heard Hassaniyya speakers a few times so I could be wrong or this could only be true for a specific Hassaniyya dialect.


 A Hassaniya speaker I met last year replaced ف with "v" and pronounced the ث as if it were ذ


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## Zoghbi

Huge subject.



> In Urban Moroccan and Algerian: "ذ", "ض" and "ظ" are pronounced as a "د".
> "ث" (th) is pronounced "ت" (t)



"ض" never have been pronounce as a "د" even in maghreb we clearly make the distinction: ask any urban magrebi speaker to pronounce these two verbs you will see the difference: يضرب يدرب

In the old dialect of Algiers the ث was always pronounced "تس" like in "tsemma" (here) "tsa3leb" (fox), but in some cities (dellys, djidjel,...)  it's the ت and the ث who are pronounced as تس, this is also frequent in Morocco.


> In northern Urban and Jebali dialects [Tetouan, Tangier, Chouen] ض is sometimes replaced by ط:
> موطع instead of موضع [and instead of بلاسة in standard MA]
> عطم instead of عضم which replaces CA's عظم in standard MA



That also occurs in old algiers but not for عظم (prononced عضم), anothers exemples:
يرطع instead of يرضع
بيط instead of  بيض
مرط instead of مرض


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## Arab_Student

Thank you so much Hemza for the effort....

Apologies for the lack of specific and thorough grouping methods applied and although aware of the obvious linguistic disparities within a country such as Syria I meant, in a vague attempt, to (with the grouping of Syrian/Lebanese) hint at General 'Urban Levantine'.

In regards to the Sudanese pronunciation of *ج*:



Hemza said:


> pronounced as a mix between "*ج*" and "*ي*" only in Sudanese as far as I know.



I think it possible you meant the Gulf (excluding Yemen and the Hijaz) as oppose to Sudan, where such a phenomenon notoriously occurs.


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## Hemza

idquod said:


> In the Old Medina dialects of Fes, Rabat, Tetouan and especially amongst Jewish speakers, س and ش are merged as well as ج and ز. This results in interesting homophones like جبل وزبل, and is the object of many jokes and much derision amongst non-merging speakers.



Thanks for adding this. It mostly occurs among Moroccans jews, not only in those cities, but also in Meknès. But I've never heard "homophones like جبل وزبل", we do make the distinction although it may exist among some speakers (but that would sound really odd...)



idquod said:


> Though not as common, this phenomenon also occurs in general Moroccan Arabic amongst words which have a س and a ش in them or a ز and a ج:
> Classical Arabic شمس becomes شمش or سمس
> CA زوج [referring to a pair e.g. ازدواج] becomes جوج [meaning اثنان]



The "ز" to "ج" shift doesn't occurs for every speaker: I do pronounce  "zuj" and not "juj" and "shams" and not "shamsh" although I heard  Moroccans pronounce the way you've stated.



idquod said:


> In northern Urban and Jebali dialects [Tetouan, Tangier, Chouen] ض is sometimes replaced by ط:
> موطع instead of موضع [and instead of بلاسة in standard MA]
> عطم instead of عضم which replaces CA's عظم in standard MA



Jbalas speak in a very funny way in my opinion. My parents aren't from this area so I learnt about their speech few times ago and it makes me laugh when I hear them  and it wouldn't surprise me if they have such features ^^.



Zoghbi said:


> Huge subject.
> 
> "ض" never have been pronounce as a "د" even in maghreb we clearly make the distinction: ask any urban magrebi speaker to pronounce these two verbs you will see the difference: يضرب يدرب



Really? Sorry then, I always though it sounds the same. I mean, to my ear it sounds the same ("ض" and "د") but I admit I've never payed much attention to it. I'll try to do it next time I meet such case.



Arab_Student said:


> Thank you so much Hemza for the effort....
> 
> Apologies for the lack of specific and thorough grouping methods applied and although aware of the obvious linguistic disparities within a country such as Syria I meant, in a vague attempt, to (with the grouping of Syrian/Lebanese) hint at General 'Urban Levantine'.
> 
> In regards to the Sudanese pronunciation of *ج*:
> 
> I think it possible you meant the Gulf (excluding Yemen and the Hijaz) as oppose to Sudan, where such a phenomenon notoriously occurs.



You're welcome and don't apologise, I just wanted to warn you that you're taking a very very long and hard path ahahaha because it's sooo difficult to classify this.

No, I didn't mean Gulf dialects, I meant Sudanese, because they have a particular way of pronouncing the letter "ج" which is a sound I've never heard somewhere else. I'm not talking about the "ج" to "ي" shift which occurs in Gulf/Iraqi dialects .


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## Arab_Student

To the best of my knowledge the (North) Sudanese "ج" is pronounced as the* J* in *J*ack, and I'm finding it difficult to imagine what a fusion between "ج" and "ي" could sound like.


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## dkarjala

Think 'g' as in English "legume". This is a well-attested feature of Sudanese.

It's fascinating because Sudanese has some other archaic features that must have existed here and there historically (uvular voiced ق for example), and this is exactly the kind of pronunciation that would lead to the classical pronunciation. It parallels a similar evolution in languages such as the Romance tongues, where the Latin g gets softened before i/e until it's essentially a j.


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## MarcB

Since some members are interested in Hassaniya this site from WR resources for Palestinian  also has Hassaniya. http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/culturetalk/western_sahara/index.html


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## idquod

Hemza said:


> Thanks for adding this. It mostly occurs among Moroccans jews, not only in those cities, but also in Meknès. But I've never heard "homophones like جبل وزبل", we do make the distinction although it may exist among some speakers (but that would sound really odd...)



ولله أخي همزة كانعرف واحد اللالة مسخوطة كاتسكن فالمدينة القديمة ديال الرباط وهي من عايلة رباطية مسلمة وكاتقول زبل وجبل بحال بحال. شحال كايضحكوا
عليها الدراري ولكن هاد شي للي كاين ف لهجة ديالها


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## Hemza

هههههههه ولله ضحكتني يا خاي!!!

عرف تتكلم بالمغريبي ألف مبروك. لا تخاف تنصدقك ولكن ما عمري ما سمعت شي مغربي و لا مغريبة يتكلم بهدي طريقة و متيقن بإنا ناس تتضحك عليها مسكينة. يمكن هي عجوزة هدا ليش تتكلم هكدا. حتى انا بعض الناس تتضحك علي لأن تنتكلم بالحرف *ق  *بدلا ما نقول *گ* 

Ps: اسمي *حمزة* ماشي همزة ahahahaha!!!!


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## Arab_Student

MarcB said:


> Since some members are interested in Hassaniya this site from WR resources for Palestinian  also has Hassaniya. http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/culturetalk/western_sahara/index.html



Great site . They have wide spectrum of resources for all the major dialects , sadly not Gulf or Sudanese


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## Hemza

I've forgotten!!!!

"ق" is also pronounced as a regular "ك" in one Algerian area (Jijel) and some Palestinian areas.

Also, the "ر" is pronounced like a "غ" or something like an English "r" by old generation of Fès (Morocco) and I think it's also the case in a place in Northern Iraq (Mossoul I think)


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## Arab_Student

dkarjala said:


> Think 'g' as in English "legume". This is a well-attested feature of Sudanese.
> 
> It's fascinating because Sudanese has some other archaic features that must have existed here and there historically (uvular voiced ق for example), and this is exactly the kind of pronunciation that would lead to the classical pronunciation. It parallels a similar evolution in languages such as the Romance tongues, where the Latin g gets softened before i/e until it's essentially a j.



They pronounce the ق as the '*g*' as in English "le*g*ume" in most cases, otherwise: the ق becomes a غ for example with القرآن they pronounce it as الغرآن or more rarely the ق is pronounced as a ك e.g. قتل = كتل or scarcely ever as a ج in زهق transforms to زهج.


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## Hemza

Arab_Student said:


> the ق becomes a غ for example with القرآن they pronounce it as الغرآن.



Are you sure you're not confusing with Gulf dialects in which sometimes "ق" turns into "غ"? Overwise if it's really the case for Sudanese, I learnt something new ^^.


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## Arab_Student

Hemza said:


> Also, the "ر" is pronounced like a "غ" or something like an English "r" by old generation of Fès (Morocco)



Amazing!  This has "french influence" written all over it since the "french r" is the same as the "غ" in Arabic. I've also heard a few pretentious Lebanese girls pronouncing their "ر" this way.


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## Hemza

No, it's not a French influence, not like those pretentious Lebanese-kifak-bonjourayn-ca va-merci ktir-girls . It's an old feature (which I find horrible) and that I can't even imitate, although my parents are from there (but don't use it, it's a really old fashion way of pronouncing).

I just wonder if it's the same as Nothern Iraqi's pronounciation...

Ps: no offense to Lebanese people


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## Arab_Student

Hemza said:


> Are you sure you're not confusing with Gulf dialects in which sometimes "ق" turns into "غ"? Overwise if it's really the case for Sudanese, I learnt something new ^^.



I couldn't be more sure about the Sudanese dialect my friend. 

I, however would love it if you (or anyone else for that matter ) could explain more about the "ق" / "غ" phenomenon that occurs in the Gulf, I've heard about it before but have never had a chance to actually observe it.

-Are there any particular patterns or words where gulf speakers might have the tendency to pronounce a ق as غ ??

Addition note:
I've heard speakers from pretty much every region in the Arab world pronounce the ق successfully, either when they switch to MSA or start reciting the Quran or even while still communicating in a purely colloquial manner i.e. with the use of proper nouns e.g. القدس، القاهرة، افريقيا etc......
Except for Sudanese, or more reasonably most, about 95% of (North) Sudanese, they struggle to even know the difference, phonetically, (between ق and غ) from my own personal experience.


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## Hemza

Sorry my friend, I'm not from the Gulf area and I lived all my life in France so I can't tell you more about this feature . I only know it exists.

That's funny for Sudanese ahahahah!!! But I suppose it mostly happens with those ones who didn't have the chance to go to school, right? .


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## Arab_Student

I would guess about 95% of those with only a primary education, 85% with secondary education and at least 75% of those with a University degree don't even know the difference (between ق and غ) the same thing is more or less true with the 3 “th” sounds (dental fricatives) ( ث ,ذ ,ظ ) in contrast to the _emphatic ز ,س ,ز_ respectively.

 Although (as I stated before) about 95% of the population (regardless of their knowledge about the differences) will pronounce ق as غ when attepting to converse in a higher register i.e. away from the گ (as *G* in Gate) pronunciation.


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## Zoghbi

This remind me another weird feature:
In the algerians tableland region (bou saada, sidi khaled,ouled djellal,...) the" غ "are pronounced as a  "ق" in a few words, they say for exemple "ya illahi elqaffar" meaning "elghaffar" (mercifull), a song = oqnia, to sing = yoqanni, qali= expensive ,qazia= expedition, qashi = crowd, qodwa = tomorrow...


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## Hemza

Amazing, I didn't know this!! It's the opposite of some Gulf dialects. Is it easy to understand them?


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## Zoghbi

Really? I was not aware that we can found the opposite, but I heard that some bedouin dialects  in the ME know the same phenomenon, after a little research on google I found that (اللهجة الحساوية):

 *نطق الغين:يبدلون حرف(غ) إلى( ق) في بعض الاحوال:مثال:غرفة:قرفة* و(إبدال القاف غين، والغين قاف: وهذه منتشرة بشكل كبير في مدينة الهفوف ويشترك فيها الشيعة والسنة، وهي ليست من مختصات مدينة الهفوف بل يصل حد انتشارها في المنطقة الشرقية، وبعض دول الخليج كالكويت. مجلة الواحة)

​Yes the people of this region are easy to understand for an Algiers resident because the ones who still speak with the conservative way (old people generaly) represent a tiny minority, but yes when I first listen to the "folk" version of this dialect it was almost as dificult to understand a hassani speaker.


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## dkarjala

Arab_Student said:


> They pronounce the ق as the '*g*' as in English "le*g*ume" in most cases, otherwise: the ق becomes a غ for example with القرآن they pronounce it as الغرآن or more rarely the ق is pronounced as a ك e.g. قتل = كتل or scarcely ever as a ج in زهق transforms to زهج.



I was only transmitting information that had been compiled in the 20th century and recorded in dialect manuals. Chances are, things have evolved and of course, Sudan, like every other place, isn't a single dialect. That's very interesting that the uvular voiced stop is becoming a fricative/trill - pretty interesting. I am certain, however, that the _jiim_ was *once *a palatalized _g_ and the _qaaf_ a voiced uvular stop.


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## Hemza

Zoghbi said:


> Really? I was not aware that we can found the opposite, but I heard that some bedouin dialects  in the ME know the same phenomenon, after a little research on google I found that (اللهجة الحساوية):
> 
> *نطق الغين:يبدلون حرف(غ) إلى( ق) في بعض الاحوال:مثال:غرفة:قرفة* و(إبدال القاف غين، والغين قاف: وهذه منتشرة بشكل كبير في مدينة الهفوف ويشترك فيها الشيعة والسنة، وهي ليست من مختصات مدينة الهفوف بل يصل حد انتشارها في المنطقة الشرقية، وبعض دول الخليج كالكويت. مجلة الواحة)​


​I didn't know people of الأحساء pronounce it in this way. I read the list of words, I didn't know ANY of them lol.

I guess both shifts exist: "ق" to "غ" and "غ" to "ق". But I don't think many young people (except the ones who talk like this) would understand if someone say:
-"moon" like "غمر" instead of "قمر"
-"song" like "أقنية" instead of "أغنية"


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## Arab_Student

I should also mention that the ق is occasionally pronounced as ج in the Gulf e.g. جدّام  = قدّام


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## Hemza

True! You can hear it in (stupid) Kuwaiti series. I think it's also the case for an Emirati singer, "7ussein al Jamsi". I'm only speculating, but I think his true name is "qasmi" (thus, related to "Qasim area" in Saudi Arabia, but I'm even less sure ).


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## Arab_Student

Hemza said:


> -Letter "ق"
> pronounced "*گ*":  in most of the time (I think that majority of speakers pronounce it  this way). It's the case for Arabian dialects, Southern/central Iraqi, rural Levantine,  Sudanese/Chadian, rural Egyptian (+some Urban areas like in Alexandria) Libyan, Southern Tunisia, most of  areas of Algeria, Morocco and all Mauritania. It's also the case for  some Palestinian dialects.
> 
> pronounced "*ق*": In Northern Iraq, Eastern Syria, by some communities of Southern Syria/Northern Jordan (Hauran) Lebanon and Palestine (I think  druzes), in some urban and rural areas of Morocco, Algeria, Northern  Tunisia. I don't know about other cases, and I hope someone can add  informations about it.
> 
> pronounced "*ء*": in urban areas of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine (not sure for Jordan) and some urban areas of Morocco and Algeria.
> 
> As for some Moroccan and Algerian dialects, two forms can coexist ("گ" and "ق") depending of the word.
> 
> -Letter "ك":
> pronounced "*ك*": in the vast majority of dialects.
> 
> pronounced "*تش*": in Gulf dialectS, Iraqi and some Palestinian dialects (again, I have no idea about Jordan) for females (possessive and when you adress them)
> 
> pronounced "*تس*": in Bedouin Hijazi and Najdi dialect (same rule as "تش")
> 
> -Letter "ج":
> pronounced as in "vi*si*on" in Moroccan, Tunisian and Levantine dialects. One exception: in some words in Tunisian, it turns into a "ز"
> 
> pronounced as in "*J*ack"  in Arabian dialects, Algerian (although, even "harder" in Algerian than others) and  I guess for Libyan, Iraqi, Mauritanian and some rural dialects of Egytian, Moroccan and Levantine (I  suppose rural/bedouin about this last?)
> 
> pronounced as a mix between "*ج*" and "*ي*" only in Sudanese as far as I know.
> 
> pronounced as "*گ*" in urban Egyptian (as you said) and to a lesser extent, in Yemeni, Omani and Moroccan (for Moroccan, it's due to the Yemeni influence I think).
> 
> -About Maghrebi dialects:
> In Urban Moroccan and Algerian: "ذ", "ض" and "ظ" are pronounced as a "د".
> "ث" (th) is pronounced "ت" (t)
> 
> In Tunisian, Libyan, Mauritanian, rural/bedouin Moroccan/Algerian, those letters are pronounced like in Arabian dialects (except Urban Hijazi)
> 
> Another really odd feature of Urban Moroccan: the "ت" is pronounced as a soft "تس" I never knew why...





Zoghbi said:


> "ض" never have been pronounce as a "د"  even in maghreb we clearly make the distinction: ask any urban magrebi  speaker to pronounce these two verbs you will see the difference: يضرب يدرب



Modification to the original list based on Hemza's contribution above about Morocco (Urban) whilst taking into consideration Zoghbis subsequent objection:

------------------------------------------------------------------
    1) Egyptian (Cairene) : ث، ق، ظ، ذ، ج
    2) Syrian/Lebanese: ث، ق، ظ، ذ، ج
    3) Sudanese: ث، ق، ظ، ذ
    4) Gulf: ض، ك، ج، ق
    5) Jordanian (Male-Bedouin influenced) : ظ، ق 
    6) Morocco (Urban) :  ق، ج ، ظ ، ث ، ذ، ت

ث in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and Sudanese is pronounced: س or ت
ث in Moroccan: ت

ق in Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese is pronounced: أ*
ق in Sudanese: غ or گ (as the G in Gate)
ق in Jordanian and Moroccan: گ*
ق in Gulf: ج , غ or گ*

ظ in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Sudanese is pronounced: emphatic (heavy) ز
ظ in Moroccan: د

ذ in Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and Sudanese is pronounced: ز or د
ذ in Moroccan: د

ج in Egyptian is pronounced: گ
ج in Syrian/Lebanese and Moroccan is pronounced: ʒ (as the si in vision) ..as opposed to J in Jack or G in George.

ج in Gulf: ي*
ك in Gulf: چ*

ض in Gulf: ظ

*Not in all cases e.g. not with proper nouns  
------------------------------------------------------------------

Have I left anything out regarding the modification? Thanks in advance


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## Hemza

mmm... You left something brother: it's Morocc*a*n, not Moroccon ahahaha .

You shall also add Mauritanian and Tunisian which are different from other Maghrebi dialects because even urban dialects pronounce interdental letters . I wish you good luck to gather all the informations about pronunciation, I think even 9 lives won't be enough to do such a big work . But that's a great idea you have .


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## Arab_Student

Hemza said:


> You shall also add Mauritanian and Tunisian which are different from other Maghrebi dialects because even urban dialects pronounce interdental letters . I wish you good luck to gather all the informations about pronunciation, I think even 9 lives won't be enough to do such a big work . But that's a great idea you have .



I would but I haven't been given enough or complete information on those other dialects ... 



Hemza said:


> mmm... You left something brother: it's Morocc*a*n, not Moroccon ahahaha .



Thanks, I've corrected it


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## Hemza

Arab_Student said:


> -Are there any particular patterns or words where gulf speakers might have the tendency to pronounce a ق as غ ??



Hello,

It's been a while but I think I found a great hypothesis about the "q" to "gh" shift: In Persian, they pronounce the "ق" as a "غ" (I heard it in a song) so I guess it's a Persian influence on Gulf dialects.


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## dkarjala

I can see how this would happen in individual words, but not to all words with that letter. Persian and Arabic are different languages (as you know of course) and so this letter has its own history and shows up in its own situations. It's much simpler and more consistent to point to the original pronunciation of ق as a _voiced_ uvular consonant and to see this as an internal development of that. All you have to to is change the original sound to a fricative and you have غ. Given the tendencies in Gulf Arabic toward palatalizing and other modifications of stops, this isn't surprising at all.


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## Hemza

But it's not the only influence Persian shows on Gulf/Iraqi dialects, as for the letter "چ" (ch) which is, as I read somewhere, an influence of Persian. I make this statement because this feature only exists (as far as I know) in Gulf Arabic speaking countries and Iraq, thus countries which share many things with Iran and not somewhere else. But I can be wrong of course. If you know Gulf dialects, does it happen with all words containing "ق"?

Ps: it would make those speakers really hard to be understood somewhere else, I hardly imagine myself recognising "غمر" as "قمر" ahahahah.


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## Drink

One thing that's been missed is that some Palestinian dialects pronounce ق as ك (I think they are the same ones that pronounce ك as تش).


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## WadiH

Hemza said:


> But it's not the only influence Persian shows on Gulf/Iraqi dialects, as for the letter "چ" (ch) which is, as I read somewhere, an influence of Persian.



We've discussed this many times before; the k='ch' phenomenon has nothing to do with Persian as it just the unvoiced counterpart of g=dj.  It appears in many parts of western and southern Arabia as well as Palestine and Jordan.  And the pronunciation of ق as a fricative like غ occurs elsewhere as well, e.g. Sudan.  There is no reason to suppose any Persian influence here.


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## Hemza

Oups, I apologise, I didn't know you already talked about this .


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## Sudani

Hi everyone!

As a sudanese myself, I just needed to add to this conversation that while we tend to pronounce the ق sound as a غ in a few select words for e.g as mentioned earlier like in the word افريقيا, the predominant pronunciation used would be that of a g sound (as in the word gate). I am even willing to go as far as saying that the غ sound that we produce for the letter ق is slightly different from that of the actual letter غ. I wouldn't however, say that we don't know the difference between the ق and غ phonetically, it's just that for us sometimes it's more 'comfortable' pronouncing it as a 'غ'. Hope that shed a little more light onto our wonderful sudanese dialect!


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## Arab_Student

Hello
Most Sudanese when consciously trying to pronounce ق correctly, for example when reciting the Quran, will never pronounce ق as G but always as غ. When referring to The Quran in most of The Sudan it's phonetically pronounced as  "الغرآن". That's why I say most don't know the difference


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