# Biz bunlarla uğraşa duralım



## analeeh

Another line from Ayvalık. The speaker is talking about his hidden affair with a Greek woman. The Mübadele Komisyonu is gaining speed and he knows he will soon be deported to Anatolia and she will be left behind. He says:

_Biz bunlarla uğraşa duralım, foyamız meydana çıkmıştı!_
... our secret came out into the open!

I'm confused by what appears to be an optative suffix and generally by the meaning. What's the first clause doing here? Why is there an optative suffix? Perhaps it's just a lack of familiarity with the vocabulary, but I can't work out any sensible interpretation of it.


----------



## gocmenhakan

lt means "While we were struggling on these, our secret came out into the open!".


----------



## analeeh

Is this a specific use of the optative or is this a different suffix I've never encountered before?

Thanks!


----------



## gocmenhakan

Yes, this is a special use of the optative. You can use it to add a "while" meaning to a dependant clause. Here is another example:
"Kardeşin odasını toplaya dursun, biz birlikte markete gidelim."
"While your brother/sister is tidying his/her room, let's go to the supermarket together."


----------



## themadprogramer

analeeh this is not the optative suffix, it's something else entirely.

Modern grammarists say it's the same as the dative case. (although I'm fairly certain it's something a bit more than that)
You see this -ma converts the verb to a noun.

Now there are a lot of special verbs of the following patern:

[Verb - ma  -(y)e/a] + *Verb

*The verb may be appended to the end of the word or spelled seperately depending on what the TDK feels is appropriate.
Some of these verbs such as the cek in -ecek are no longer recognised as such and are considered suffixes.

As hakan pointed out -edur usually gives a sense "endurance". It may be translated as a "while we were" or "while we kept"

-e kalkmak from your other post means to attempt something.
"Ayaklanmaya kalkmak" -> To attempt a coup/revolt

I'd like to list these all but as I pointed out earlier a lot of these are simply considered suffixes and aren't even properly taught in schools. It'd probably be best if you asked someone on here to explain it for you should you see something similar.

Some other common examples include
-ekalmak (similar to -edurmak, however generally used when this is somewhat out of the subject's control)
Gördükten sonra kalakaldı. (After he saw he just stood there)

-evermek (to simply, to quickly complete an action)
Gidiver! (Come on and go)
Gidivereyim. (Could I just go)

-eyazmak (to barely avoid an action)
_"Sıcaktan öleyazdı" _(He was almost dead from the heat)


----------



## spiraxo

_While we're busy dealing with these matters, ..._




analeeh said:


> ... What's the first clause doing here? ...


Probably it was added to intensify unwanted surprise of being caught.


durmak -ur
_nsz _
1. _nsz_ Hareketsiz durumda olmak
"_Motorlu su taşıtlarından biri de kanal rıhtımının tam bizim önümüze düşen bir noktasında demir atmış duruyordu._" - *Y. K. Karaosmanoğlu*
.
14. Bir konuyla çok ilgilenmek, üstüne düşmek
15. _yardımcı fiil_ Kök veya gövdeleri sonuna -a (-e) zarf-fiil eki almış fiillere gelerek süreklilik bildiren birleşik fiiller oluşturur: Çalışadurmak, bakadurmak, getiredurmak, yiyedurmak gibi
_TDK Güncel Türkçe Sözlük_


----------



## analeeh

Ahmet Akkoç said:


> analeeh this is not the optative suffix, it's something else entirely.
> 
> Modern grammarists say it's the same as the dative case. (although I'm fairly certain it's something a bit more than that)
> You see this -ma converts the verb to a noun.
> 
> Now there are a lot of special verbs of the following patern:
> 
> [Verb - ma  -(y)e/a] + *Verb



I understand this. Some verb roots (including _-bil, -dur, -kal_ etc) can be attached onto another stem with the suffix _-a/e, _which is an old (now archaic) converb ending no longer used on its own but found in early Ottoman texts (this I think originally implied something taking place at the same time as something else, and may also be the suffix in e.g. _saat üç kal*a*_).

My confusion is not with _uğraşa duramak_ itself, but with _Biz bunlarla uğraşa dura*lım*. _This looks exactly like the 1pl optative suffix, and goçmenhakan seems to agree that it _is_ the optative suffix, and that this suffix can be used to mean 'while'. This is what I was trying to confirm, as well as finding out how frequent this usage is. I asked another friend today and he said that he prefers the formation _biz bunlarla uğraşadura*rken*, _and that this sentence seems to him not quite grammatically correct, so I was wondering if this use of the optative (if that is what it is) is a bit archaic or something else.

Thank you all for your helpful replies!


----------



## themadprogramer

O that's easy, this -lım make's the verb act as if it had a "let's" come before it were it in English.

So it's kind of like saying "Let us keep working on this, we'll see what comes of it."
It sounds like two seperate sentences which is probably the reason he considered it incorrect. Hope that I was of help ...


----------



## analeeh

Hmm. That's how I would have initially understood it, but that doesn't seem to make sense in the context.

Thanks for your help though. Maybe it's just oddly written.


----------



## Rallino

The usage is a bit archaic indeed.

In your context, _biz bunlarla uğraşaduralım = biz bunlarla uğraşadur*u*rken_ (while we were busy with all this, something happened.)


----------

