# Long, blonde ponytail



## Txantxiku

Is this sentence correct _His long*, blonde *ponytail _or it should be _His long,* blond* ponytail?_


----------



## ferchoguevara

I think is correct: his long blonde ponytail (without coma)


----------



## auxilio!

Esto va a confundir también a los de habla inglesa. Una de las opiniones 
es que blonde es feminina y blond masculina. Otra es que blonde se aplica
a mujeres, como sustantivo y adjetivo, ej. _blondes have more fun_; 
_her hair is so blonde_ y que blond se aplica sólo como adjetivo masculino.

Así que lo tiene bien *Txantxiku*. Objecciones?


----------



## gringuitoloco

His long, blond ponytail.
You need a comma to separate two adjectives describing the same noun.
Blond is for men; Blonde is for women. It's one of the only English adjectives that changes form depending on sex of the person. (Both are pronounced the same.)


----------



## duvija

gringuitoloco said:


> It's one of the only   English adjectives that... )



'One of the few' o 'the only' , supongo...


----------



## ribran

Duvija,

Take a look at this: http://volokh.com/posts/1206545475.shtml


----------



## roanheads

As heard in Shanghai---- " My name is Blond--James Blond "---------ouch "


----------



## duvija

ribran said:


> Duvija,
> 
> Take a look at this: http://volokh.com/posts/1206545475.shtml



Cute, thanks. But...

_Multilinguist Steve Dodson, at the blog Language Hat, said one of the only is common in Russian and in Spanish (uno de los únicos_).

I would think in English would be fine to say 'one of the onlies/onlys'>>>
Of course we can say whatever we want, but this case is just funny.

"Multilinguist" Steve? I'll take care of him.


----------



## ribran

Oh, jeez.


----------



## gringuitoloco

duvija said:


> 'One of the few' o 'the only' , supongo...



his/her is the most common one....
There are tons of nouns, however =)


----------



## inib

Txantxiku said:


> Is this sentence correct _His long*, blonde *ponytail _or it should be _His long,* blond* ponytail?_


I can't swear to the reliability of the source, but I've just found this:http://things-my-beagle-knows.blogspot.com/2006/11/blond-vs-blonde.html
If it's right, and I suspect so, we have to say long, *blond* ponytail, but because we are talking about a ponytail; it doesn't matter if it's his or hers.


----------



## duvija

inib said:


> I can't swear to the reliability of the source, but I've just found this:http://things-my-beagle-knows.blogspot.com/2006/11/blond-vs-blonde.html
> If it's right, and I suspect so, we have to say long, *blond* ponytail, but because we are talking about a ponytail; it doesn't matter if it's his or hers.



¡Of course! (at the beginning I thought people were kidding around. A pony tail has no sex).


----------



## gringuitoloco

American Heritage's _Book of English Usage_ propounds that, "...insofar as "a blonde" can be used to describe a woman but not a man who is merely said to possess blond(e) hair...." when talking about hair, blond is for men, and blonde CAN be used for women, although many refer to it as a " "sexist stereotype [whereby] women are primarily defined by their physical characteristics." This is according to the AH's Book of English Usage.


----------



## St. Nick

The phrase _"... long blond ponytail ...."_ doesn't need a comma.  _"Long"_ is modifying _"blond ponytail."_  With consecutive adjectives, a comma replaces a conjunction, but notice how the word _'and'_ cannot be comfortably placed between _"long"_ and _"blond"_: _*a long and blond ponytail._

_'A hot summer day'_ vs _*'A hot and summer day'_ (_*A hot, summer day_).
_'Hot and windy conditions'_ (_Hot, windy conditions_) vs _*'Hot windy conditions.'

_* = incorrect


----------



## inib

St. Nick said:


> The phrase _"... long blond ponytail ...."_ doesn't need a comma. _"Long"_ is modifying _"blond ponytail."_ With consecutive adjectives, a comma replaces a conjunction, but notice how the word _'and'_ cannot be comfortably placed between _"long"_ and _"blond"_: _*a long and blond ponytail._
> 
> _'A hot summer day'_ vs _*'A hot and summer day'_ (_*A hot, summer day_).
> _'Hot and windy conditions'_ (_Hot, windy conditions_) vs _*'Hot windy conditions.'
> 
> _* = incorrect


Now, that is new to me. By no means am I doubting what you say because it makes all the sense in the world, but no-one had ever explained to me anything other than that adjectives in a list need a comma between them.
So, if we are looking for a rule, could we be distinguishing between what I call "stative" and "essential" adjectives?
Once again, St Nick, I appeal to your patience.


----------



## ribran

Inib,

I know you are an English teacher. Don't most ESL books group adjectives into seven classes (size, material, place of origin, etc.)? Perhaps a comma is required when the adjectives belong to the same class.


----------



## St. Nick

Hi Inib

You're probably right, but the terms I'm familiar with are 'coordinate adjectives' (with commas) and 'non-coordinate adjectives' (without commas). I've put away a couple of glasses of wine since my comma sermon, but here's two guidelines that come to mind:

1) Is the meaning retained when the adjectives are inverted?
2) Does the sound of the modifiers remain fluid when the conjunction _'and'_ (rather than a comma) separates them?

If both of the conditions above are met, use a comma.

Maybe I've started a lively debate.


----------



## duvija

St. Nick said:


> Hi Inib
> 
> You're probably right, but the terms I'm familiar with are 'coordinate adjectives' (with commas) and 'non-coordinate adjectives' (without commas). I've put away a couple of glasses of wine since my comma sermon, but here's two guidelines that come to mind:
> 
> 1) Is the meaning retained when the adjectives are inverted?
> 2) Does the sound of the modifiers remain fluid when the conjunction _'and'_ rather than a comma separates them?
> 
> If both of the conditions above are met, use a comma.
> 
> Maybe I've started a lively debate.



Ugh! A small business owner...


----------



## St. Nick

duvija said:


> Ugh! A small business owner...


1) Is the meaning retained when the adjectives are inverted? No.
2) Does the sound of the modifiers remain fluid when the conjunction _'and'_ separates them? No.

Neither condition is met, so don't use a comma.


----------



## inib

St. Nick said:


> Hi Inib
> 
> You're probably right, but the terms I'm familiar with are 'coordinate adjectives' (with commas) and 'non-coordinate adjectives' (without commas). I've put away a couple of glasses of wine since my comma sermon, but here's two guidelines that come to mind:
> 1) Is the meaning retained when the adjectives are inverted?
> 2) Does the sound of the modifiers remain fluid when the conjunction _'and'_ rather than a comma separates them?
> 
> If both of the conditions above are met, use a comma.
> 
> Maybe I've started a lively debate.


I've been over half an hour trying to repond to this, but "electronic things" keep breaking down. In the meantime, I've beaten your wine record, so maybe I'll try again tomorrow!
I'd still like to know what distinguishes the "coordinate adjectives" from the "non-coordinate".
I'm only here to learn, (yes, about my own language, and how to explain it better) and sometimes I try to contribute, but forgive me if I oversimplify.


----------



## gringuitoloco

St. Nick said:


> The phrase _"... long blond ponytail ...."_ doesn't need a comma.  _"Long"_ is modifying _"blond ponytail."_  With consecutive adjectives, a comma replaces a conjunction, but notice how the word _'and'_ cannot be comfortably placed between _"long"_ and _"blond"_: _*a long and blond ponytail._
> 
> _'A hot summer day'_ vs _*'A hot and summer day'_ (_*A hot, summer day_).
> _'Hot and windy conditions'_ (_Hot, windy conditions_) vs _*'Hot windy conditions.'
> 
> _* = incorrect



Long is modifying ponytail....Blond is modifying ponytail. You may most certainly say "long and blond ponytail." You can have a short, black ponytail. Or a long, grey ponytail. You are stating both its length and color. In your examples, a day cannot be summer. But a summer day can be hot. Likewise, a ponytail can be blond AND long. Therefore, you need a comma.


----------



## gringuitoloco

Note - In each case the adjective stays the same, whether it is describing a masculine, feminine, singular or plural noun.
When using more than one adjective to modify a noun, the adjectives may be separated by a conjunction (and) or by commas (,).
_For example:_

"Her hair was long and blonde." or "She had long, blonde hair.




--http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/adjectivetext.htm
Edit: Long and blonde are both qualitative adjectives, being size (long) and color (blond). They definitely need a comma.


----------



## St. Nick

gringuitoloco said:


> Note - In each case the adjective stays the same, whether it is describing a masculine, feminine, singular or plural noun.
> When using more than one adjective to modify a noun, the adjectives may be separated by a conjunction (and) or by commas (,).
> _For example:_
> 
> "Her hair was long and blonde." or "She had long, blonde hair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/adjectivetext.htm
> Edit: Long and blonde are both qualitative adjectives, being size (long) and color (blond). They definitely need a comma.


Subject adjective complements do not share the structural arrangement of adjectives that precede the noun.  We wouldn't say or write _*'his long and blond hair.'_ Similarly, the phrase _*'his blond, long hair'_ grates.


----------



## gringuitoloco

St. Nick said:


> Subject adjective complements do not share the structural arrangement of adjectives that precede the noun.  We wouldn't say or write _*'his long and blond hair.'_ Similarly, the phrase _*'his blond, long hair'_ grates.



Can you cite a source that states the rules of subject adjective complements?

Also, I WOULD say "His long and blond hair." Also, the only requirement is that the switched order retains the same MEANING. Not that it sounds just as pleasant. Qualitative adjectives have an order, which is why it sounds so bad:
Opinion
Size
Age
Shape
Color
Origin
Material
Purpose.

Of course "Blong, long hair" will sound terrible. It doesn't follow the adjective order (size-color). However, it does still give the same meaning: The hair is long. The hair is blond.

The hair is blond. The hair is long.


----------



## duvija

gringuitoloco said:


> Of course "Blong, long hair" will sound terrible.



Yep. "Blong" by itself would be enough...


----------



## St. Nick

gringuitoloco said:


> Can you cite a source that states the rules of subject adjective complements?
> 
> Also, I WOULD say "His long and blond hair." Also, the only requirement is that the switched order retains the same MEANING. Not that it sounds just as pleasant. Qualitative adjectives have an order, which is why it sounds so bad:
> Opinion
> Size *[long]*
> Age
> Shape *[long]*
> Color *[blond]*
> Origin
> Material
> Purpose.
> 
> Of course *"Blong, long hair" will sound terrible.* It doesn't follow the adjective order (size-color). However, it does still give the same meaning: The hair is long. The hair is blond.
> 
> The hair is blond. The hair is long.


You've answered your own questions.

If anyone is really serious about learning how adjectives are punctuated, google the keywords "coordinate adjectives" and "edu."  The writing labs at more than several universities discuss the topic.


----------



## Eltraductor

Yo he leído lo siguiente en un diccionario sobre el uso de 'blond':
*1. *(of *hair*, skin, etc.) light-colored: the child's soft blond curls. 
*2. *(of a person) having light-colored hair and skin. 
*3. *(of furniture wood) light in tone. 

En este caso, recomendaría que se diciera *"his long, blond ponytail."

*Y también, en cuanto al uso de 'blonde':
*1.* _Adj_ (of a woman or girl) having fair hair and usually fair skin and light eyes.
*2.* _Noun (of _a woman or girl) having this coloration.

Después de leer esto, 'blonde' es incorrecto para describir el pelo de una persona.

Ejemplos:
*That girl is so blonde.
*(Como se mencionó arriba) *Blondes have more fun.

*Espero que te sirva,
Eltraductor


----------



## Eltraductor

_For all the individuals learning English,

_In terms of understanding how adjectives need to be arranged, adjectives commonly appear just in front of the nouns that they modify.

*The immature, carefree boy refused to study when he went to university.
*
When two (or more) adjectives precede a noun (perhaps even in a list form), they are definitely separated by commas. However, occasionally adjectives follow the nouns they modify:

*The boy, immature and carefree, refused to study when he went to university.

*Here the commas enclose the pair of adjectives, which are also connected with the '_and'_ conjunction. Placing the adjectives after the noun is, in my opinion, a way of giving them added emphasis in a sentence. So, for example, the sentence in the first post could be interpreted like this (bearing in mind I don't know the context of the sentence):

*"His ponytail, long and blond, caught the attention of others."

*I hope this helps everyone. I don't like the idea of over-complicating the use of adjectives- learning a language should be fun!
Eltraductor


----------



## gringuitoloco

St. Nick said:


> You've answered your own questions.
> 
> If anyone is really serious about learning how adjectives are punctuated, google the keywords "coordinate adjectives" and "edu."  The writing labs at more than several universities discuss the topic.



Qualitative adjectives are equal in importance...the ponytail is not inherently blond, unlike "summer day" or "golden retriever." If both words fit in that category (The list of adjectives I posted), then they need a comma between them. You don't put commas between the other types of adjectives, unless they are in the same group:
Quality (The list above)
demonstrative (this/that....)
Distributive (each/any...)
Quantitative (1 2 3...)
Interrogative (what/which....)
Possessive (His/her...)


As long as they are in the same category, they need a comma. Long and blond are both in the qualitative category and need a comma:

His        two          long,       blond     
^Poss.  ^Quant.    ^Qual.      ^Qual.   
You need a comma between long and blond because they are of equal importance.

This doesn't apply for something like "dirty golden retriever" because a golden retriever is a species of dog, and therefore "golden" holds more importance.

I've looked on literally a hundred different websites and have done a ton of research to verify it, and I have found nothing contradictory to what I've posted....

Also, even when searching on google: "adjective comma long blond hair" All the english learning/writing tools pages use it as an example for when you need to use a comma.


----------

