# "kung" in concessive clauses



## Maginoo

Hello all,

I'm wondering about the use of "kung" in this sentence:

"Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]."  --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.

(The pronouns in brackets are required in English but optional in Tagalog.)

But I don't see "kung" used this way in the grammar books; it usually translates as "if", or else goes along with a relative pronoun (kung ano, kung sino, etc.).  Can anyone enlighten me and/or give more examples of "kung" being used in this type of context?

Thanks,
Maginoo


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## DotterKat

Maginoo said:


> ..."Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]."  --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.
> To make your English translation more clearly include a concessive clause use _although_:
> _Although _he is handsome, his behavior is awful. (_Although_ introduces the concessive clause).



In Tagalog, the particle _kung_ does not really translate to _although_ in this context and would be more analogous to *indeed*, as it is used to confirm or emphasize a statement:

1)Pogi na kung pogi -  (ako)...(I am indeed handsome...)
2)Masungit na kung masungit - (siya)...(He/She is indeed grouchy...)
3)Mayaman na kung mayaman - (sila)...(They are indeed wealthy...)
4)Pobre na kung pobre - (kami)...(We are indeed poor...)
5)Matalino na kung matalino - (ako)...(I am indeed intelligent...)
6)Sinungaling na kung sinungaling - (siya)...(He/she is indeed a liar...)

The lines of text above can be viewed as abridged versions of those below, using the _kung...lang_ construction. Note also that the particle _kung_ now more clearly translates to *if*:

1)Pogi (nga ako) _kung_ [kapogian/kaanyuan] (_lang_ ang pag-uusapan)... I am indeed handsome _if_ handsomeness/looks is all one is talking about...
2)Masungit (nga siya) _kung _[kasungitan/kalagayan ng loob] (_lang _ang pag-uusapan)...He/She is indeed grouchy _if_ mood is all one is talking about...
3)Mayaman (nga sila) _kung_ [kayamanan] (_lang_ ang pag-uusapan)...They are indeed wealthy _if_ wealth is all one is talking about...
4)Pobre (nga kami) _kung_ [kapobrehan/pera] (_lang_ ang pag-uusapan)...We are indeed poor _if _money is all one is talking about...
5)Matalino (nga ako) _kung_ [katalinuhan] (_lang_ ang pag-uusapan)... I am indeed intelligent _if _intelligence is all one is talking about...
6)Sinungaling (nga siya) _kung_ [kasinungalian/pagiging makakatotohanan] (_lang _ang pag-uusapan)....He/She is indeed a liar _if_ honesty is all one is talking about..


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## latchiloya

Maginoo said:


> (The pronouns in brackets are required in English but optional in Tagalog.)



One reason I see is that the translation you made is not in the same value of the original context.



Maginoo said:


> "Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya].



I don't think you have to put a pronoun on this sentence for it can stand on its own without a pronoun.



> Pogi na kung pogi, pero napakapangit ng ugali.



This can be possible, right?



Maginoo said:


> "Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]." --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.



I doubt it would sound in a way like that in English. I would say:

_handsome or whatever you call it,__ but the attitude is very ugly__._

or as simple as:

_call it what you may call it._[ yet this omits the element _pogi _]



Maginoo said:


> But I don't see "kung" used this way in the grammar books; it usually translates as "if"



well, this time it is not word for word.



DotterKat said:


> ..."Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]." --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.
> To make your English translation more clearly include a concessive clause use _although_:
> _Although _he is handsome, his behavior is awful. (_Although_ introduces the concessive clause).



It can be a concessive clause for we are speaking of grammar but not in a structure like that. For philosophically, its logic says: handsome is what you call it(but not how the first person call it),but the attitude is very ugly.^^


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## Maginoo

Ok, salamat sa inyong dalawa.  DotterKat, your expanded sentences are most helpful in bridging the language gap.  Latchiloya, yes, part of my point was that I believe the pronouns "siya" and "niya" in brackets are optional in the Tagalog sentence, though their counterparts are required in English.  Your alternate translations also give me a good idea of the Tagalog meaning.


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## DotterKat

latchiloya said:


> Originally Posted by *DotterKat*
> ..."Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]." --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.
> To make your English translation more clearly include a concessive clause use _although_:
> _Although _he is handsome, his behavior is awful. (_Although_ introduces the concessive clause).
> 
> It can be a concessive clause for we are speaking of grammar but not in a structure like that. For philosophically, its logic says: handsome is what you call it(but not how the first person call it),but the attitude is very ugly.^^



A concessive clause (usually introduced by though, although or even though) contains an idea that seems to be opposed to that contained in the main clause. Depending solely on direct antonyms simply for the sake of adhering to learned grammatical constructs makes for a very dry translation, such as the case of limiting the antonymic relation of _handsome _exclusively to _ugly._ No, English (as well as Tagalog) is rich enough to weave a nuanced tapestry that can at times be dazzlingly beautiful or dry, horrid and indeed _awful_.


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## mataripis

Maginoo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm wondering about the use of "kung" in this sentence:
> 
> "Pogi na kung pogi [siya], pero napakapangit ng ugali [niya]."  --> I agree that he's handsome, but his behavior is awful.
> 
> (The pronouns in brackets are required in English but optional in Tagalog.)
> 
> But I don't see "kung" used this way in the grammar books; it usually translates as "if", or else goes along with a relative pronoun (kung ano, kung sino, etc.).  Can anyone enlighten me and/or give more examples of "kung" being used in this type of context?
> 
> Thanks,
> Maginoo


 The Tagalog is urban form (Manila) but the original Tagalog is " Kakisigan/Kagandahan{guapo-guapa} niya ay taliwas {kabaligtaran}sa pag uugali niya.


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