# אם כבר אז כבר



## Nunty

איך אומרים באנגלית "אם כבר אז כבר"? תודה!​


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## JLanguage

Nun-Translator said:


> איך אומרים באנגלית "אם כבר אז כבר"? תודה!​




תרגום מילולי: "Finish what you started"


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## elroy

Could you give us some context? 

Assuming this expression is used like the German _wenn schon, denn schon_ (which means the same thing literally), there are many different contexts in which it could be used.


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## scriptum

In for a penny, in for a pound!


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## Nunty

Perfect Scriptum! Thank you!

Context, elroy? I don't have any.


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## Flaminius

Hello,

I am just wondering how the literal meaning of אם כבר אז כבר turns out to be "in for a penny, in for a pound"?  Is it something like "if something is already good, then it is already good" if we supply implied words?


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## Nunty

Oh, it's not literal at all. But that is what you say in English where you would say אם כבר אז כבר in Hebrew, if you see what I mean? It's conceptually equivalent.


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## Flaminius

Yes, conceptual equivalence, Nunty.  I am asking this question because I am not sure how to understand the Hebrew idiom.  It seems to me:
that the literal meaning is "if already, then already"
that for it to be conceptually equivalent with the English one, it needs to be expanded into something like "if something is already good, then it is already good"

Do you think this is what the four-word idiom implies?  I even wondered if כבר is to be understood as something that has already come to pass, but this would be "no use in crying over spilt milk" in English.


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## elroy

Scriptum's translation doesn't work in every context (again, assuming the Hebrew expression is used like the German expression).

The idea is that if you're going to do something, you may as well do it right, or go "all the way," or "go all out," depending on the context.

For example:

-Would you like some coffee?
-Well, I don't usually drink coffee, but yeah, I'll have one with you.
-Would you like a small cup or a large cup?
-A large one!  _Wenn schon, denn schon,_ right?

(I'm assuming that אם כבר אז כבר could be used in that context.)

This is one example in which "in for a penny, in for a pound" would not work.


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## scriptum

Here is another suggestion: One might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.


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## Nunty

Well, I dug deep into the back corner of my sock drawer and found some context. 

Let's say I was visiting a friend recovering from surgery and she asked me to feed her cat. I notice that the litter box is dirty, too, so I clean it and change the litter: אם כבר, אז כבר. 

Or someone breaks into a grocery store to steal cigarettes but once inside, decides he might as well take the money, too. אם כבר אז כבר

Or, as in elroy's example, I am on a diet. (I'm usually on a diet.) But a friend has made a delicious desert and offers me a spoonful. I sigh and - אם כבר, אז כבר - have a whole portion. Unlike elroy, however, I think that "in for a penny, in for a pound" works in this situation, too.


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## elroy

You're probably right, Wise Nun.   To be honest, this expression is not part of my active vocabulary, and I don't recall ever hearing anyone use it.  I would probably say something like "May as well go all the way."


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## Nunty

Flaminius said:


> Yes, conceptual equivalence, Nunty.  I am asking this question because I am not sure how to understand the Hebrew idiom.  It seems to me:
> that the literal meaning is "if already, then already"
> that for it to be conceptually equivalent with the English one, it needs to be expanded into something like "if something is already good, then it is already good"
> 
> Do you think this is what the four-word idiom implies?  I even wondered if כבר is to be understood as something that has already come to pass, but this would be "no use in crying over spilt milk" in English.



Sorry, I didn't meant to ignore you, Flam. 

I don't think that "good" is a necessary attribute in using this expression. It is closer to JLanguage's "Finish what you started", though not exactly the same.

Maybe it could be understood as "If you've [already] done a bit of some act, you may as well do the whole thing". But it is not an imperative. I don't know what to call this "mood".


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## Mr.Slade

If it means "If we're going to do it at all, then let's do it up good and proper," then sometimes we say, "Let's go whole hog." Or, "We might as well go whole hog."


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