# Urdu, Hindi: some kind of gourd



## BP.

Hi,

As promised in the garlic thread here's the first word we have a different spelling and pronunciation for than most other people.

It's a vegetable my immediate family calls _taroo2ii_-تروئی, my extended family calls _tura2ii_-ترئی-, and the vegetable-monger and the world at large calls _toorii_-توری.

It looks a bit like: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7xAs99h2suc/Sb6fm7dr0PI/AAAAAAAAFyo/uf8n5iQ1NuY/s1600-h/alice3.jpg
and is apparently a relative of the _laukii_: http://tanveerrauf.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wow3.jpg.


I'd like a poll on what other members call it.

Thank you.


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## panjabigator

We've always said "torii" in Punjabi and Hindi. In Lucknow I always heard "turaa2ii."

We also call "laukii" "ghiiyaa," I might add.


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## marrish

For us it is _tura'ii_ (Urdu), and we prefer _ghiiyaa_ to _laukii _however _laukii_ is perceived as more standard I think.


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> We've always said "torii" in Punjabi and Hindi. In Lucknow I always heard "_*turaa2ii*_."
> 
> We also call "laukii" "ghiiyaa," I might add.


  For us too it is _tura2ii / tura'ii _-ترئی, and it is _laukii_ for us too. 

PG, do you mean _tur*aa*2ii _or _tur*a*2ii / tur*a*'ii _-ترئی? Because we always say it as the latter, i.e. no 'alif'.


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## panjabigator

I was _alif_ crazy, it seems. This just tells you how uncomfortable I am with that word. I detest the vegetable, after being subjected to an overabundance in my yard one summer.


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> I was _alif_ crazy, it seems. This just tells you how uncomfortable I am with that word. I detest the vegetable, after being subjected to an overabundance in my yard one summer.


 OK! I was worried for a moment! I know Lucknow has changed but was fretting that it might have changed so much as to add an _alif_ in _tura'ii_. That would be serious!   ... and my sympatheis for a _tura'ii_ overdose!


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## BP.

I found that toorii too exists in my version of Urdu. A shi3r to confirm that:

in bee gunoo.n* koo kaun kareelee
kaduu kii doostii pal b.har mee.n toorii

*bee gun represents bay.ngan.

Still apart from this childrens' couplet, we still use taroo2ii and with others, tura2ii.


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## Alfaaz

> We also call "laukii" "ghiiyaa," I might add.





> we prefer _ghiiyaa_ to _laukii _however _laukii_ is perceived as more standard I think.





> and it is _laukii_ for us too



This is confusing....Could someone explain? 

bhindii tura'ii = okra


ghiiyaa tura'ii = zucchini


peeli tura'ii = summer/yellow squash


lauki/kadduu (called dudhi in some parts of India)= Calabash/opo squash/bottle gourd ............. (lauki ka Halwah, kadduu ka raita....)
(sunnat-e-rasuul also...in Islamic tradition?)


Yellow/Summer squash = peThaa...?

Pumpkin = Halwah kadduu and something else....


Edit: just saw the pictures provided by BP in the OP: those look like a "Chinese" bitter melon/ چینی کریلا vs the "Indian" bitter melon......is that right....?


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## flyinfishjoe

What exactly is that vegetable? Is it zucchini? 

I think I've heard both _torii_ and _turaii_ in Hindi, but based on my (limited) experience, I'd say _torii_ is a little more popular.


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## lcfatima

Tura'ii, I guess it could be represented that way, I always thought it sounded more like tureii to me, but...

Here is a pic of it, those other pics are not turaii

http://www.ravisagar.in/blog/ghar-ki-tori

I thought ghiya was Punjabi and lauki was standard N. Indian Hindi/Urdu, Mumbaikars say doodhi.


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## Qureshpor

Interesting. Neither the picture furnished by BP SaaHib nor that posted by Fatima SaaHibah is a "torii" or "tura'ii" as far as I am concerned! From my Punjabi perspective, "torii" is of two types; one "kaalii torii" (courgette) and the other "bhinDii torii" (Ladies' fingers). Furthermore, for us "torii" is the Punjabi pronunciation and "tura'ii", the Urdu pronunciation.

Keep them coming, BP SaaHib.


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## BP.

lcfatima said:


> Tura'ii, I guess it could be represented that way, I always thought it sounded more like tureii to me, but...
> ...


Could you write "tureii" for me in the usual script for me please? Thanks so much.



lcfatima said:


> ...
> I thought ghiya was Punjabi and lauki was standard N. Indian Hindi/Urdu, Mumbaikars say doodhi.


And I thought g.hiyaa was a special kind of kadduu, i.e. the g.hiyaa kadduu, though I can't remember which one it was. There's the simple kadduu too, which is just like the round laukii but smaller and less sweet.



lcfatima said:


> ...Here is a pic of it, those other pics are not turaii
> http://www.ravisagar.in/blog/ghar-ki-tori
> ...


I can't even remember what this vegetable looks like, but I can tell our variety didn't have a serrated surface.

Alfaaz, don't bank too much on the picture I provided. As I said, I can't tell it anymore from a photo.


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## lcfatima

Mona Apa of the Zaiqa food blog speaks Dakkani, but here is her Tura'ii, the ribbed one:

http://zaiqa.net/?cat=182

I noticed there is some semantic elasticity with lauki and kaddu, too. Seems there are multiple vegetables called tura'ii, but I feel the ribbed one is the standard one.


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## Faylasoof

The only ترئی  tura'ii I can recall is after it had been cooked and became unrecognisable and that too was a long time ago! So like BP SaaHib I also do not remember exactly how it looks like in real life! Tried googling with ترئی as a search term and only got scenes from the film Troy with Brad Pitt! Shall look up my cookbook! Bhindi we eat all the time so I guess I can extrapolate.


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## BP.

Thanks everyone.


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## panjabigator

BP, I thought I might add that we often say جل توری in my house to refer to our pet goldfish! I don't know if this is particular to my mother's humor, but I haven't encountered it anywhere else and I get a kick out of it.


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## Alfaaz

The thread seems to have ended, but would just like to ask a few questions:

Would members agree with the classification in my previous post? 
Would/is tur'aii used as a "suffix"?

or do I have wrong names of vegetables listed above...(because it seems from all the other posts that the word "tur'aii" is used by members for a single vegetable...the kind perhaps used in Gujarati cuisine)? If this is so, then what names are used for the other vegetables?


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## greatbear

Alfaaz said:


> The thread seems to have ended, but would just like to ask a few questions:
> 
> Would members agree with the classification in my previous post?
> Would/is tur'aii used as a "suffix"?
> 
> or do I have wrong names of vegetables listed above...(because it seems from all the other posts that the word "tur'aii" is used by members for a single vegetable...the kind perhaps used in Gujarati cuisine)? If this is so, then what names are used for the other vegetables?



No, never used "turaii" as a suffix for other vegetables. Turaii is one vegetable, and bhindi, lauki (or dudhi, ghiya), kaddu, karelaa (the bitter gourd) and petha are others; why would you put "turaii" after them? I've never heard "turaii" being added as a suffix to all these at least.

By the way, the turaii that I have always known looks like the 4th picture on this page: http://www.ektitli.org/2011/07/01/and-this-is-why-you-should-go-organic/


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## Alfaaz

> No, never used "turaii" as a suffix for other vegetables. Turaii is one vegetable, and bhindi, lauki (or dudhi, ghiya), kaddu, karelaa (the bitter gourd) and petha are others; why would you put "turaii" after them? I've never heard "turaii" being added as a suffix to all these at least.



Sorry for opening this thread again, but has anyone else heard or used tura'ii as a suffix?

Edit: with bhindi, peeli, and/or ghiyaa (okra, yellow, zucchini)


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## Qureshpor

"tura'ii" is not a suffix!! What I said was that in Punjabi, we have two "toriis". One we call "kaalii torii" and the other "bhinDii" or "bhinDii torii".


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## Alfaaz

So people (non-Punjabi speakers) using "bhindii tura'ii" , "ghiyaa tura'ii" and "peeli tura'ii" for okra, zucchini, and yellow squash in Urdu are wrong...?


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## marrish

I don't really know what the two latter would mean -  maybe because I'm not into these vegetables - but I agree with Qureshpor SaaHib that tura'ii is not a suffix! By the way, I have always wondered how you can call a courgette (this one I like).

I have never heard of _bhinDii tura'ii_ in Urdu. When speaking Punjabi it is another matter. In Punjabi I've never heard of a _tura'ii_, though, I don't know if it helps.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> So people (non-Punjabi speakers) using "bhindii tura'ii" , "ghiyaa tura'ii" and "peeli tura'ii" for okra, zucchini, and yellow squash in Urdu are wrong...?



No, you have missed the point Alfaaz Jii. "tura'ii" is a noun and the words preceding it are equivalent to adjectives, i.e, the tora'ii is being described as "kaalii", "piilii", "bhinDii" etc. So, "tura'ii" is not a "suffix".


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## Alfaaz

> No, you have missed the point Alfaaz Jii. "tura'ii" is a noun and the words preceding it are equivalent to adjectives, i.e, the tora'ii is being described as "kaalii", "piilii", "bhinDii" etc. So, "tura'ii" is not a "suffix".



Sorry, shouldn't have used the word "suffix", but was wanting to ask if this is correct or not, as greatbear said and have heard some speakers say just "bhindii" or "ghiyaa" and leave tura'ii out...using tura'ii exclusively for one vegetable


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Sorry, shouldn't have used the word "suffix", but was wanting to ask if this is correct or not, as greatbear said and have heard some speakers say just "bhindii" or "ghiyaa" and leave tura'ii out...using tura'ii exclusively for one vegetable



If greatbear has said this as a response to my remark about "bhinDii torii" and "kaalii torii", then he may have misunderstood what I was saying. I clearly mentioned Punjabi in my post. It might be worth reading that post again.


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## Alfaaz

> If greatbear has said this as a response to my remark about "bhinDii torii" and "kaalii torii", then he may have misunderstood what I was saying. I clearly mentioned Punjabi in my post. It might be worth reading that post again.



He said this in response to my post, and I was asking in the context of Urdu (as stated previously, have heard speakers, who are not even Punjabi, use tura'ii in this way)...I shall read it again!


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## marrish

It is possible, languages get influenced by each other.


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## marrish

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Hi,
> 
> As promised in the garlic thread here's the first word we have a different spelling and pronunciation for than most other people.
> 
> It's a vegetable my immediate family calls* taroo2ii-تروئی,* my extended family calls _tura2ii_-ترئی-, and the vegetable-monger and the world at large calls _toorii_-توری.



BP SaaHib, I found some uncanny verses by Kabir (d. 1518), the poet who wrote in medieval Urdu/Hindi/Awadhi, where the way this vegetable is attested the way your immediate family calls it:

ठगिनी क्या नैना झमकावै। _Thaginii kyaa nainaa jhamkaavai_
कबिरा तेरे हाथ न आवै। _kabiraa tere haath na aavai_
कद्दू काटि मृदंग बनाया नीबू काटि मँजीरा। _kadduu kaaTi mridaNg banaayaa niibuu kaaTi maNjiiraa_
सात *तरोई* मंगल गावैं नाचै बालम खीरा। _saat *taroo'ii* maNgal gaavaiN naachai baalam khiiraa_
भैंस पदमिनी आसिक चूहा मेड़क ताल लगावै। _bhaiNs padminii aasik chuuhaa meRak taal lagaavai_
चोला पहिरि गदहिया नाचै ऊँट बिसुनपद गावै।_ cholaa pahiri gadahiyaa naachai uuNT bisunpad gaavai_
आम डार चढ़ि कछुआ तोड़ै गिलहरि चुनचुनि लावै। _aam Daar chaRhi kachu'aa toRai gilahri chunchuni laavai_
कहै कबीर सुनो भाई साधो बगुला भोग लगावै। _kahai kabiir suno bhaa'ii saadho bagulaa bhog lagaavai_


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