# Palestinian Arabic: خشخاش



## kraftwerk

Moderator note: split from here.

Is the Palestinian for bitter orange really خشخاش? I find that means 'opium poppy'


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## akhooha

خشخاش is definitely the MSA word for poppy, and by extension, for opium poppy. I, too, think it odd that Palestinian Arabic would adopt it for bitter orange. Perhaps someone was having a bit of fun with this entry?


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## tounsi51

So the kabab khashkhash comes from this word


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## kraftwerk

what's kabab khashkash? XP


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## tounsi51

this File:Kebab khashkhash.jpg - Wikimedia Commons


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## kraftwerk

doesn't seem to have either bitter oranges or poppies, but peppers, garlic and parsley, which makes the word خشخاش more confusing!


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## Malki92

I met one young Palestinian woman from Ramallah who described a خشخاش as شيء يشبه البرتقال and that it's حلو ومرارة وحامض. Other  have told me that it's synonymous with برتقال حامض أو طعمو حامض. However, I also found that a few Palestinians I asked did not know the meaning of this word. Quite an interesting word indeed, strikes me as a shibboleth.


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## elroy

kraftwerk said:


> Is the Palestinian for bitter orange really خشخاش?


 Yes.

Before this thread I had no idea خشخاش meant anything else.

Apparently it’s known as نارنج elsewhere (and رارنج in Iraq and أبو صفير in Lebanon): نارنج - ويكيبيديا، الموسوعة الحرة. As Wikipedia also says, though, ويسمى في منطقة الأغوار - الأردنية : (خشخاش)


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## amikama

tounsi51 said:


> So the kabab khashkhash comes from this word


So خشخاش is pronounced _kh*a*shkhash_? Hebrew borrowed it from Arabic as חושחש _kh*u*shkhash_.


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## elroy

No, it’s pronounced xušxāš.


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## Malki92

How do we know that Hebrew borrowed it from Arabic?


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## tounsi51

Modern Hebrew has borrowed a lot from Arabic.


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## Malki92

tounsi51 said:


> Modern Hebrew has borrowed a lot from Arabic.


Sure and Palestinian Arabic has a lot of loanwords from Hebrew. I'm asking how we know Hebrew borrowed خشخاش (with the meaning of bitter orange) from Arabic and not vice versa?


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## elroy

According to this post, it's originally a Persian word with a possible Sanskrit cognate.  A direct borrowing from Sanskrit to Arabic or Hebrew is unlikely, so it was probably borrowed from Persian.  Now, which language borrowed it, Arabic or Hebrew?  My guess is Arabic, for a few reasons:

خُشخاش follows a common pattern in Palestinian Arabic (other examples are مُفتاح، فُسطان، غُربال), whereas this is not a common Hebrew pattern.  Note that according to that post, the original Persian pronunciation has an "a" vowel in the first syllable, so the word has been phonologically adapted.  It stands to reason that it was phonologically adapted to the common Palestinian Arabic pattern.
Wikipedia, cited above, says that this word is used in the Jordan Valley, which includes part of Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian Territories.  If the word were originally Hebrew and borrowed into Palestinian Arabic, it would not be used in Jordan.
Per Wikipedia, the fruit is not native to the region, and that's probably why there are no native Semitic words for it.  Since Palestinians and Jordanians have inhabited the area for far longer than Israelis, it seems historically likely that an Arabic word would have emerged for the fruit once it reached the area - which was presumably well before the establishment of the state of Israel - and then eventually been borrowed into Hebrew.  Other possibilities - such as Palestinians not having a word for the fruit pre-Israel, or the fruit not reaching the area until after the establishment of Israel - seem quite unlikely.


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## tounsi51

For my part, if I talk about the kebab khashkash, which for sure is related to the above khashkhash is a Levantine dish and especially Syrian dish. Lebanese have also a dish called kofta khashkhash. 

Modern hebrew is less than 150 years old and the dish is older than the modern hebrew. 

I also found that the word khashkhash is also used in the Indian cuisine.

All those dishes have in common the tomato sauce.


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## Malki92

Hi tounsi51, what I'm specifically asking about is خُشخاش in Palestinian Arabic (and possibly Jordanian Arabic?), which means bitter orange. The word for poppy is خَشْخاش and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that neither kabab khashkhash nor kofta khashkhash contain bitter oranges in their recipes. So I'm speaking of the former and not the latter and asking if خُشخاش (with the meaning of bitter orange) is borrowed from Hebrew (because the same word exists in Hebrew with the identical meaning of bitter orange) or if Hebrew borrowed it from Palestinian Arabic. 

Also, to elroy's post, I see what you've said and I will surely consider your reasons. Thanks! For some reason these topics really grab my interest and I can't stop until I hit a dead-end .


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## tounsi51

I believe the dishes called khashkhash/khoshkhash are called that way not because of bitter orange but rather because of the color of the sauce used to cook the meat, whose color is similar to the poppy

I am sure, at the end, this is the same word, whether it is poppy, bitter orange or dish sauce.


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## Malki92

How do you conclude that khashkhash (poppy) is the same word as khushkhash (bitter orange)?


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## tounsi51

I don't think this is a coincidence


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## elroy

I've never heard of this meat dish in Palestine.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but maybe it's regional.  How is the name actually pronounced in Syria, where the dish is apparently common?  @momai?

I've also never heard خشخاش or any similar-sounding word used to refer to "poppy" (but then again, I've never heard anything else used to refer to it!).

The only similar-sounding word I'm familiar with is the verb خَشْخَش, which means "to rattle."


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## momai

elroy said:


> I've never heard of this meat dish in Palestine.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but maybe it's regional.  How is the name actually pronounced in Syria, where the dish is apparently common?  @momai?


I personally don't know this dish. It is apprarently only made in Aleppo and Lebanon.
The only poppy which I know is the corn poppy or the poppy anemone which is by the way called شق شقيق in my dialect.
As for خشخاش, the only thing I know about it is that it is considered as a drug, but that's really all what I know.


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## Alfaaz

elroy said:
			
		

> According to this post, it's originally a Persian word with a possible Sanskrit cognate. A direct borrowing from Sanskrit to Arabic or Hebrew is unlikely, so it was probably borrowed from Persian.


Here is a dictionary entry for reference:


> P خشخاش _ḵẖashḵẖāsh_ = P خشخش _ḵẖash-ḵẖash_ (=S. खस्खस), s.m. A poppy; poppy seed;-the unit of weight (being equal to one-eighth of a grain of rice).


The Sanskrit word is _khaskhasa_ (کھسکھس).

Relevant article about etymology: Poppy (_Papaver somniferum_ L.)


> ...The species name _somniferum_ (Latin _somnus_ sleep and _ferre_ bring) refers to the narcotic properties of opium, as does Spanish _adormidera_ (from Latin _dormire_ to sleep). Cf. also an Arabic name of poppy, _abu an-num_ [ابو النوم] father of sleep.
> ...
> From West Asia to South-East Asia, related names for poppy are found in a huge area: Turkish _haşhaş_, Georgian _khoshkhoshi_ [ხოშხოში], Kurdish _khash-khash_ [خةشخاش], Farsi and Urdu _khash-khash_ [خشخاش], Hindi und Gujarati _khas-khas_ [खसखस, ખસખસ], Telugu _gasagasaalu_ [గసగసాలు], Tamil _casa casa_ [கசகசா], Dhivehi _kaskasaa_[ކަސްކަސާ] and finally Malay _kas kas_. I do not know where these names originate from, yet I notice similar Sanskrit names: _Khaskhasa_ [खस्खस] and _shasa_ [षस].
> ...
> The term _opium_ for the concentrated latex obtained from unripe capsules is used since Greco-Roman times; it is related to Greek _opos_ [ὄπος] sap, juice of plants. The word was transferred to Arabic (_ubim_ [أوبيم]) and Farsi (_afyun_ [افیون]); Sanskrit _ahiphena_ [अहिफेन] poppy, opium belongs to the same kin, but was secondarily associated with _ahi_ [अहि] snake and _phena_ [फेन] saliva, foam, froth, in reference to the adverse effects of continued opium intake. Related terms are Marathi _aphu_or _aphin_ [अफू, अफीण] and Telugu _abhini_ [అభిని] opium. Cf. also Korean _apyon_ [아편] and Chinese _yapian_ [鸦片] opium.


Extra information:

_Opium _is referred to as افیم or افیون, while خشخاش is usually reserved for _poppy seeds_ (at least as far as recipes are concerned!).
This recipe for _Kofta with Burghul_ suggests that the name might be related to the verb خشخش (mentioned by elroy above).


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