# The loveliest distance between two points.



## August2

Здравствуйте!

May the sentence:

Кривая - самое грациозное/ изящное/ прекрасное [which one sounds best?] расстояние между двумя точками,

be considered as a correct “modified paraphrase” of

“Сегмент прямой линии - самое краткое расстояние между двумя точками”?


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## Maroseika

Neither кривая, nor сегмент cannot be considered as расстояние for being the names of the geometrical figures.
In your first sentence I'd suggest путь instead of расстояние. It would sound at least logical, though sense still seems rather weird.
In the second sentence I'd substitute сегмент прямой линии with отрезок - it's rather common in geometry. Сегмент is usually used in quite another sense - as circular arc.


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## August2

Thank you.
So, the second sentence should be: “ _Отрезок __- самое  краткое  расстояние  между  двумя  точками”._
where “Отрезок”=” Отрезок прямой “ ~ “Interval on a straight line”.


As to the second sentence, I only tried to “translate” into some kind of geometrical language a “famous” (_sic_!) sentence by Мэй Уэст (who hadn’t probably the slightest idea or conception of geometry – either Euclidean or non- Euclidean). 


And I also tried (to my little success) to have a russian sentence mantaining the original English humour.


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## Panda Nocta

>Кривая - самое грациозное/ изящное/ прекрасное [which one sounds best?] расстояние между двумя точками

It does not make any sense in Russian even if math is not considered (is it a word game?).

Наименьшая длина кривой, соединяющей две точки, равна расстоянию между этими точками. Кривой с наименьшей длиной, соединяющей две заданные точки, является отрезок, соединяющий эти точки.


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## Q-cumber

Hi *August2*

We normally say "кратчайшее" instead of "самое краткое". 

I've found such a Russian translation:

_"Полукруг: приятнейшее расстояние между двумя точками". _(Мэй Уэст)

However, it doesn't make much sence to me ... at least, without any further context. 

By the way, what was the original sentence?


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## Maroseika

August2 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the second sentence should be: “ _Отрезок __- самое краткое расстояние между двумя точками”._
> where “Отрезок”=” Отрезок прямой “ ~ “Interval on a straight line”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is also wrong, because расстояние is a measure, while отрезок is a figure.
> Длина отрезка прямой, проходящей через две точки, является кратчайшим расстоянием между ними.  Not too much poetical, though...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As to the second sentence, I only tried to “translate” into some kind of geometrical language a “famous” (_sic_!) sentence by Мэй Уэст (who hadn’t probably the slightest idea or conception of geometry – either Euclidean or non- Euclidean).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you please let us know this famous phrase in English?
Click to expand...


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## Panda Nocta

>So, the second sentence should be: “ Отрезок - самое краткое расстояние между двумя точками”.

No way.  Отрезок - это множество точек, а расстояние - это определенного вида отображение пар точек на неотрицательные вещественные числа (для конкретного набора аргументов - конкретное число). Поскольку это разные понятия, то нельзя сказать, что "отрезок - это ... расстояние ...", даже с попутными уточнениямию


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## Q-cumber

Panda Nocta said:


> Поскольку это разные понятия, то нельзя сказать, что "отрезок - это ... расстояние ...", даже с попутными уточнениямию



Согласен. Надо либо использовать слово "путь", как предложил *Maroseika*, либо говорить о _длине отрезка_.
   В первом случае, логичнее использовать "прямую" вместо "отрезка". Кратчайший путь - "по прямой", а не "по отрезку", поскольку при такой формулировке первична именно форма кривой (прямая), проходящей через две точки....


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## Maroseika

Если точки в разных средах, путь тоже не годится.


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## Ptak

An interesting quotation from "Five Evenings" by Volodin:

_"В боксе нет замахов. Поступательное движение кулака происходит по прямой, ибо *прямая - кратчайшее расстояние между двумя точками*."_


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## Panda Nocta

> ибо прямая - кратчайшее расстояние между двумя точками.

It is fine from the grammar point of view, but, as was said just a little earlier, it is really messy from the math point of view.

Either "прямая-расстояние" and "кратчайшее расстояние" makes little sense.


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## Maroseika

Panda Nocta said:


> ибо прямая - кратчайшее расстояние между двумя точками.
> 
> It is fine from the grammar point of view, but, as was said just a little earlier, it is really messy from the math point of view.


Well, but who ever cares? http://www.google.ru/search?complet...="прямая+-+кратчайшее+расстояние"&lr=&aq=f&oq=


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## Panda Nocta

Maroseika said:


> Well, but who ever cares?


Mathematicians.  For others it is "fine".

Some people used to say "цифра" whereas they mean a number. A mathematician will say "число" here as "цифра" is plain invalid in this context.


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## August2

Thank you, Maroseika, Panda Nocta , Ptak and Q-cumber.

I shall go through your interesting remarks and try to understand and translate them into my native language. 

For the time being, I would say that Q-cumber (Привет, Q-cumber!) found what I was looking for:
_“Полукруг: приятнейшее расстояние между двумя точками" _
The “ famous” original sentence is nothing but Mae West’s quote
*“*Curve: the loveliest distance between two points." 

I must say that I find “_полукруг_” a very curious translation of “curve”. I dare say it is too “explicit” and should require no further context… So, I think we can read 
_“Полукруг: приятнейшее расстояние между двумя точками" _
as a parody of a “nobler” sentence such as the one suggested by Ptak: 
_“Прямая - кратчайшее расстояние между двумя точками”._

Of course, this holds true from my point of view, that is, when I translate the two russian sentences into Italian or English. In Russian there seems to be a problem with the use of some geometrical terms.
It is generally accepted, and can be proven*, that _the shortest distance between two points is a straight line_. But it is beyond the scope of this thread to investigate the nature/definition of such entities as _point, distance, straight line, curve _and so on. (And that is far beyond my knowledge of the Russian language). 

I am only too aware that one should care about both grammar and conceptual precision, (rigour). It is not always an easy task to satisfy both conditions. (The use/misuse of _number/digit_ or _numero/cif_ra ~ _цифра /число_ is simply a problem of “standard” literacy).
----
* For example: www-instant-analysis.com/Principles/straightline.htm


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## Mr_Churlishness

Q-cumber said:


> _"Полукруг: приятнейшее расстояние между двумя точками". _(Мэй Уэст)
> 
> However, it doesn't make much sence to me ... at least, without any further context.


It will, if you turn your mind to womens' boobs :lol:

@August2:

In point of fact, you CAN say "Кривая - самое грациозное/ изящное/ прекрасное расстояние между двумя точками" and they all sound equally POETIC.
But, God forbid you should use any of them in a math test! 
In the world of science they are absolutely unacceptable.


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## Ptak

I'd say "_грациозное_ расстояние" sounds very odd. As well as "изящное"... (well, maybe it's a little bit better). "Прекрасное расстояние" is more or less acceptable, still sounds strange through...


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## Q-cumber

August2 said:


> The “ famous” original sentence is nothing but Mae West’s quote
> *“*Curve: the loveliest distance between two points."



The funny thing is that I could hardly find this “famous” original sentence on the Web. The Google search brought very few results and all these links lead to some Russian related pages. So I suggest some reverse translation here...

PS Some famous Mae West's quotes are collected here:
http://www.allgreatquotes.com/mae_west_quotes.shtml

...but there's no the "curved" one between them.


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## August2

I “learnt” this _funny pseudo-geometric theorem_ from a friend of mine, after a serious discussion about non-euclidean geometry. Of course, we didn’t bother about its author: he might have been some “creative” student after a boring and too formal geometric lesson.

Some time later, I decided to translate this _funny theorem_ into Russian. To my great surprise, I found that its author was an American actress, named Mae West. 
Here’s the link: www_quoteworld_org/authors/mae-west (just replace the _underscore __character_ with a _dot:_ for some obscure reason - без уважительной причины ? – I am not allowed to post links). It’s the tenth quote, with a very good rating…

Your link looks like Mae West’s _opera omnia_, but “the curved quote” is missing… perhaps it is an _Apocrypha_ or “apocryphal quote” and it was actually created by some unknown Euclid’s student.
But let others investigate this “literary” case (_sic_!) …

What puzzles me, in the russian version, is the word “*Полукруг*”. 
If it means “semicircle”, it fits very well to Mae West’s “physical conformation” but it’s not the right/best word. It should be something like semi circumference or “half of a circumference (of a circle)”. If the following definitions are correct, and they should,
*Окружность* — _геометрическое место точек, расположенное на данном расстоянии от данной точки, на одной плоскости._ 
*Круг* — _геометрическое место точек, расположенное не дальше чем окружность, на одной плоскости_
may we say that “_Полуокружность_”, means “semi circumference”?

And, more generally, but the subject is getting somewhat hard, may we use the word “*Кривая*” to speak of any line (thus having, among an infinity of lines) something like a “piece of a _Hypotrochoid_” or an “irregular _Полуокружность_”?

Well, sorry for this boring digression… After all, our original sentence is not a geometric theorem. All I need, is to check whether “*Кривая*” is felt/understood as a sort of “skyline” or “physical profile” in your everyday language.

P.S.
I found an interesting exercise (_Понятие кривой. Примеры. Уравнение касательной к кривой в данной точке_) that sooner or *later*, I’ll try to do...


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## Q-cumber

August2 said:


> What puzzles me, in the russian version, is the word “*Полукруг*”.
> If it means “semicircle”, it fits very well to Mae West’s “physical conformation” but it’s not the right/best word. It should be something like semi circumference or “half of a circumference (of a circle)”. If the following definitions are correct, and they should,
> *Окружность* — _геометрическое место точек, расположенное на данном расстоянии от данной точки, на одной плоскости._
> *Круг* — _геометрическое место точек, расположенное не дальше чем окружность, на одной плоскости_
> may we say that “_Полуокружность_”, means “semi circumference”?



As a matter of fact, the word "полукруг" has two meanings in Russian:


> *ПОЛУКРУГ*
> 
> ПОЛУКРУГ, полукруга, мн. полукруги, полукругов, м.
> 
> 1. Половина круга, образуемая соответствующей частью окружности и диаметром. Луна во второй четверти представляет собою полукруг.
> 
> 2. *Дугообразная линия.* Описать полукруг. Цветник перед балконом расположен был полукругом. Меж гор, лежащих полукругом, пойдем туда... (Пушкин). Становиться полукругом. Выстроиться в полукруг.
> (Толковый словарь Ушакова)



“Полуокружность” isn't a real word.


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## August2

Thank you, *Q-cumber*.

*Дугообразная линия** (*_linea arcuata, linea semicircularis_) has resolved (nearly) all my doubts.


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## Q-cumber

Q-cumber said:


> "Полуокружность" isn't a real word.


 Well, on second thought "полуоокружность", as crescent, is also OK. There's actually nothing wrong with this word.


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