# BCS - neuter nouns adding -en-



## Tassos

Continuing my quest, now I've come to the neuters...
Concerning the nouns mentioned in the title I know four of them *ime, vr(ij)eme, rame *and* breme*.
Is there any way to systematize them, put them under a rule (I'm always referring to *which* neuter nouns with the -e suffix take that extra syllable) or I just have to learn them by heart?
If the second is true (which is the most probable) can you add some more -en- adding neuter nouns that you consider important?

Thank you


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## DenisBiH

I'm not sure if there is a rule. It isn't all neuter nouns ending in -me as there is _krme _(adding -t-), for example.

As for some other examples: _pleme_, _sjeme_, _tjeme_, _vime_.


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## Anicetus

DenisBiH said:


> I'm not sure if there is a rule. It isn't all neuter nouns ending in -me as there is _krme _(adding -t-), for example.



It isn't, but all nouns adding _-en-_ that I can think of do end in _-me_. 

I guess _*-men > *-mę > -me_ used to be a suffix in Proto-Slavic, but it certainly hasn't been in use for a long time and nouns with it aren't numerous at all. Other examples I can think of are _prezime_ (surname) and _sl(j)eme_ (mountain peak or ridge).

So, the answer is that you do have to learn them by heart, but I think it's quite possible we've actually listed all of them here.


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## Tassos

Anicetus said:


> So, the answer is that you do have to learn them by heart, but I think it's quite possible we've actually listed all of them here.



Good, thanks, I think I can manage...

It's weird though that *s(j)eme* is the same in italian (in the ekavian version). They have different etymology, so probably just a coincidence...


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## VelikiMag

One more vote for learning them by heart. They aren't numerous, you have four and Denis gave you another four. Apart from those, there are words which are their compounds and have the same declension. Anicetus mentioned _prezime_, I can think of _nevrijeme_ and _poluvrijeme_. That should be it, more or less.


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## Anicetus

Tassos said:


> It's weird though that *s(j)eme* is the same in italian (in the ekavian version). They have different etymology, so probably just a coincidence...



They do? I thought they were indeed cognates. The similarity is even more apparent if we look at Latin _semen_ and Proto-Slavic _*sěmę_ (_ę_ is a nasal vowel, like French _in_ in _brin_, coming from merging of front vowels with _m_ or _n_; long _e_ changed to yat (ě) in late Proto-Slavic). Wiktionary agrees with me.


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## Morana_

In Slovene: breme, ime, pleme, rame, seme, sleme, streme, teme, vime, vreme.


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## Anicetus

So, it's pretty much the same -- only _streme_ has turned into _stremen_, a regular masculine noun, in BCMS.


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## Duya

To make matters more complicated, there is also _dugme : dugmeta_ (HJP) (although supletive _dugmad_ is much more common).


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## francisgranada

Anicetus said:


> ... The similarity is even more apparent if we look at Latin _semen_ and Proto-Slavic _*sěmę_ (_ę_ is a nasal vowel ...



Though a bit less evident, but it's also the case of _ime _(Italian _nome_, Latin _nomen_)


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