# All Slavic languages: Безалаберный



## Maroseika

*Безалаберный *(disorderly, disorganised) is rather odd word, without reliable etymology yet and its stem is almost unknown in other Russian words.
Some etymologists derive it from German *albern *(silly) others assume contamination with Latin *elaborat* (thoroughly made) and even Turkis *аlуb äri - *(mighty man).
Is there anything akin in other Slavic languages?


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## Jana337

Czech - I don't think so. Could you show us some sentences? The penny may drop then.


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> Czech - I don't think so. Could you show us some sentences? The penny may drop then.


http://search.ruscorpora.ru/?grm1=&grm2=&lex1=%C1%C5%C7%C0%CB%C0%C1%C5%D0%CD%DB%C9&lex2=&max2=1&min2=1&mycorp=&sem1=&subcorpus=%CF%CA*&t=1000&text=lexgramm&q=-407153451&p=6


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## Athaulf

I can't think of anything similar in Croatian.


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## Q-cumber

> *Вопрос.* Пожалуйста, объясните происхождение слова "безолаберность". Спасибо
> *Ответ.* Слово безалаберный (обратите внимание на его написание) исследователи возводят к слову алАбор, бытовавшему в Тверской губернии, обозначающему "порядок, распорядок", алАборить "приводить в порядок". Этимология самого слова алабор до сих пор не очень ясна.


 _(Служба русского языка)_



> *Провинциализм* — областное, местное слово или выражение в общелитературной речи. (...) В частности, провинциализмы бывают иногда незаменимым пособием при определении этимологии слов; так, тверское слово алабер — порядок — объясняет общеупотребительное слово "безалаберный"; оскомина объясняется областным словом скомить — чувствовать боль; выражение дотла происходит от Провинциализм тло — дно и т. д.


 _Энциклопедия Брокгауза Ф.А. и Ефрона И.А. (1890 - 1916гг.) _


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## Kriviq

There is *безхаберен* in Bulgarian. *Хабер* is a Turkish word, meaning *notice*, *message*.


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## Thomas1

Nothing similar in Polish, at least that I'm aware of.


Tom


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## Q-cumber

Kriviq said:


> There is *безхаберен* in Bulgarian. *Хабер* is a Turkish word, meaning *notice*, *message*.



What is the exact meaning of the word then?


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## Kriviq

Q-cumber said:


> What is the exact meaning of the word then?



It can be translated as *weak-minded*.


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## beclija

> выражение дотла происходит от Провинциализм тло — дно


So "тло" is a provincial synonym of дно? In Croatian/Serbian, both words exist, but they are not exact synonyms. While they can both be rendered as "ground", "dno" is more precisely translated as "bottom", while "tlo" means "soil".


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## Q-cumber

Kriviq said:


> It can be translated as *weak-minded*.



Then I guess this word has no direct connection with "безалаберный".


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## Q-cumber

beclija said:


> So "тло" is a provincial synonym of дно? In Croatian/Serbian, both words exist, but they are not exact synonyms. While they can both be rendered as "ground", "dno" is more precisely translated as "bottom", while "tlo" means "soil".



The word "тло" does not exist in modern Russian. However, we slill use it in such idioms as "сгореть до тла"  (to burn down), проиграться до тла (to gamble away everything you have)

It can be found in a dictionary by  Владимир Даль:


> *ТЛО* (Даль)   - ср. дно, испод, основание, как плоскость; тло улья, тамб. тл коробьи, дно, донышко, бол. внутренняя плоскость его. *Изба до тла сгорела*, дочиста, до основания. Его обокрали до тла. Хлеб до тла погнил, весь, сколько было. Тляник, полный, богатый улей, в котором соты дотянуты до самого тла.


Nowadays, "до тла" is normally being written jointly - "дотла".

The word "дно" has multiple meanings: 1. "дно реки" (озера, морское, бассейна) bottom of a river (sea, lake, swimming pool, etc.); 2. Пить до дна! (Bottoms up!) 3. "дно корабля" (ship's bottom) doesn't sounds that fine, we usually say "днище".  4. "Опуститься на дно"  (to degrade completely)  etc.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Maroseika,
I cannot help you with your initial word. I see no connection at all.




beclija said:


> So "тло" is a provincial synonym of дно? In Croatian/Serbian, both words exist, but they are not exact synonyms. While they can both be rendered as "ground", "dno" is more precisely translated as "bottom", while "tlo" means "soil".


In Slovene "dno" has the same meaning as in Croatian and Serbian.
But it looks like "tla" (it's a plural noun in Slovene) has wider meaning not only soil, ground outside, but also floor inside.


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