# Il va ME la tuer ma fille



## Loic

Bonjour, 
Je me demande comment rendre cette phrase avec exactitude, en raison du "me" qui semble bien français. Ou faut-il considérer qu'il n'y a pas de structure équivalente en anglais et dire simplement 'He's going to kill my daughter' ?

Merci d'avance pour vos avis 'avisés'  
Loïc


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## Tabac

Loic said:
			
		

> Bonjour,
> Je me demande comment rendre cette phrase avec exactitude, en raison du "me" qui semble bien français. Ou faut-il considérer qu'il n'y a pas de structure équivalente en anglais et dire simplement 'He's going to kill my daughter' ?
> 
> Merci d'avance pour vos avis 'avisés'
> Loïc


I think your attempt at the English is about as close as you're going to get to the original French.  I can't think of anything that would include the pleonastic _me_.


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## Kelly B

There are cases where tacking an "on me" at the end gives a similar feel to a French _me _before the verb, but I don't think it works here.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

How about: He is going to kill my own daughter?
Maybe it's not the same meaning...


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## pieanne

Je ne trouve pas de structure correspondante en anglais, sauf peut-être l'accentuation du mot "my"... Ou alors utiliser "on me"? Il faudrait l'avis d'un native E. speaker, here...

Ceci dit, j'entends souvent des mamans dire "... et il *m*'a fait une crise d'appendicite juste quand nous devion partir à la Guadeloupe!"
Cela veut dire que la maman se sent visée, comme si l'enfant avait fait sa crise exprès...


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## Kelly B

pieanne said:
			
		

> [...]Ceci dit, j'entends souvent des mamans dire "... et il *m*'a fait une crise d'appendicite juste quand nous devion partir à la Guadeloupe!"
> Cela veut dire que la maman se sent visée, comme si l'enfant avait fait sa crise exprès...[...]


_That's _a case where _on me_ fits. I'm glad you found one.


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## Nicomon

Est-ce qu'un truc du genre peut convenir, dans le contexte?
_I will lose my daughter to him / that (evil??) man _

ou encore... 
_My precious daughter! This man will kill my daughter. _


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Yes, Nicomon is close to the French meaning. What this man will do to the daughter will be as if it will be done to the mother too...


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## Loic

Thanks to all of you for responding so quickly to this slightly tricky construction. I agree with Pieanne, Nicomon, Kelly and Karine. It definitely involves the mother : 'me' with the pleonastic, redundant form as Tabac observed. Can someone come up with examples of 'on me' in a sentence just to compare ?
In 'I will lose my daughter to him ' we may not convey the idea of "killing' although it's also going in the right direction, I feel. 
I'm thinking of similar difficulties in sentences such as 'Tu as vu comme il TE l'a remis en place ?'  To be continued... ? A plus tard
Loïc


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## marget

In the middle of our trip, she got sick on me.
He overdrew my bank account on me.
She broke the mirror on me.


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## Gardefeu

> In the middle of our trip, she got sick on me.
> He overdrew my bank account on me.
> She broke the mirror on me.


Quelle famille!


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## pieanne

LOL, Gardefeu!


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## timpeac

pieanne said:
			
		

> Je ne trouve pas de structure correspondante en anglais, sauf peut-être l'accentuation du mot "my"... Ou alors utiliser "on me"? Il faudrait l'avis d'un native E. speaker, here...
> 
> Ceci dit, j'entends souvent des mamans dire "... et il *m*'a fait une crise d'appendicite juste quand nous devion partir à la Guadeloupe!"
> Cela veut dire que la maman se sent visée, comme si l'enfant avait fait sa crise exprès...


"On me" c'est déjà pas mal. "His heart gave out on him". Malheureusement, je n'arrive pas à formuler une phrase utilisant cette tournure dans ce cas précis de "he's going to murder my daughter". "He's going to murder my daughter on me" me donne l'image du meurtrier assis sur "moi" tuant ma fille..."

Edit - la raison, je crois, c'est que "on me" favorise la personne qui est "me". Dans "He broke my mirror on me", c'est pour moi-même que je fais pitié. Dans "he's going to murder my daughter", l'important c'est ma fille qui va être tuée, pas mon chagrin à cet égard.


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## calembourde

For the past tense, I would be likely to say, 'went and' along with 'on me'

e.g:
She went and had an attack of appendicitis on me just when we were going to go to Guadeloupe
In the middle of our trip, she went and got sick on me
He went and overdrew my bank account on me
She went and broke the mirror on me!

But 'on me' expresses *exasperation*, and it makes light of the situation a bit, so it is not suitable for something as serious as killing your daughter. You could probably say, 'and then he went and killed my daughter' in the middle of a comedy act, or telling a story in a humorous way, but not if your real daughter was involved.

As for a translation, well I guess the 'me' emphasises that killing my daughter is something he is doing to me, and we don't have a concise way of saying that. But maybe it could be added to the end in another sentence, with something like:

He's going to kill my daughter... it's the worse thing he could do to me/of all the things he could do to me!


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## marget

timpeac said:
			
		

> "On me" c'est déjà pas mal. "His heart gave out on him". Malheureusement, je n'arrive pas à formuler une phrase utilisant cette tournure dans ce cas précis de "he's going to murder my daughter". "He's going to murder my daughter on me" me donne l'image du meurtrier assis sur "moi" tuant ma fille..."


 
I can imagine someone saying "Oh my God, he's going to kill her on me"! and I don't get the impression that the girl has to be sitting on the mother's lap. I would think that the mother would be emphasizing how devastating the loss would be to her.


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## timpeac

marget said:
			
		

> I can imagine someone saying "Oh my God, he's going to kill her on me"! and I don't get the impression that the girl has to be sitting on the mother's lap. I would think that the mother would be emphasizing how devastating the loss would be to her.


I do agree with the nuance you give there, but I find it hard to imagine. Surely a mother would never say "he's going to kill my daughter on me!" eg "oh poor me I'm going to end up with a dead daughter" but rather "he's going to kill my daughter - go and help her!!".

I could imagine a callous gangster saying "then fat Tony only went and killed my favourite barber on me. Where the hell am I going to get a hair cut now?". I wouldn't presume that "I" was in the chair at the time that fat Tony killed my barber.


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## marget

timpeac said:
			
		

> I do agree with the nuance you give there, but I find it hard to imagine. Surely a mother would never say "he's going to kill my daughter on me!" eg "oh poor me I'm going to end up with a dead daughter" but rather "he's going to kill my daughter - go and help her!!".
> 
> I could imagine a callous gangster saying "then fat Tony only went and killed my favourite barber on me. Where the hell am I going to get a hair cut now?". I wouldn't presume that "I" was in the chair at the time that fat Tony killed my barber.


 
I'm sure you're right, Tim.  but I know I've heard the "on me" used in serious situations, at least on TV, when a person is dying and a loved one cries out "You can't die on me"!  Of course, that is TV!


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Wait, wait. In "Il va ME la tuer, ma fille", "tuer" is a way of speaking, I don't think we are speaking about murder here... I think we should have more context but I can guess the end of the sentence "... en lui donnant autant de travail !" 
The "me" is here to stress the fact that everything done to her daughter concern a lot the mother. And Tim, I think the important fact is not the potential and hypothetical "murder" of the daughter but the grief the mother will have if murdered! This "murder" is as if it was doing on her.
Don't know if I'm clear enough, sorry.


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## timpeac

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> Wait, wait. In "Il va ME la tuer, ma fille", "tuer" is a way of speaking, I don't think we are speaking about murder here... I think we should have more context but I can guess the end of the sentence "... en lui donnant autant de travail !"
> The "me" is here to stress the fact that everything done to her daughter concern a lot the mother. And Tim, I think the important fact is not the potential and hypothetical "murder" of the daughter but the grief the mother will have if murdered! This "murder" is as if it was doing on her.
> Don't know if I'm clear enough, sorry.


No, sorry I don't quite get it - you're saying that we're not really talking about murder here? What does the original sentence mean then?

Marget - yes, your "don't die on me" does sound fine and believable. However, here we are (or I thought we were before Karine's message!) talking about killing not dying. "Don't die on me!" yes it's believable that we are sympathising with the emotional effect of the death on "me". It could also mean "despite the efforts I've made - say you've been giving mouth-to-mouth, "come on! Don't die on me now!". However with "to kill" the important thing is to try to avoid the murder from taking place.

A mother, daughter and an assassin are in a room, and the murderer takes out a knife to stab the daughter. Would the mother really say "don't kill my daughter on me" (imagine the emotional effect that will have on poor old me) or would she say "don't kill my daughter!" (I beg you, leave her alone!). I just can't imagine the first, at all.


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## Outsider

Would a word for word translation not work in this case?

_"He's going to kill *me* my daughter!"_


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## timpeac

Outsider said:
			
		

> Would a word for word translation not work in this case?
> 
> _"He's going to kill *me* my daughter!"_


No, not at all to my ears.


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## marget

Outsider said:
			
		

> Would a word for word translation not work in this case?
> 
> _"He's going to kill *me* my daughter!"_


 
I think that would have to be "Il va me tuer, ma fille".

Edit:  If we wanted special emphasis on *me,* I think we might want to say Il va me tuer moi...


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## Outsider

Well, Timpeac has already said it doesn't work, but I'm curious...



			
				marget said:
			
		

> I think that would have to be "Il va me tuer, ma fille".


Why so?


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## timpeac

marget said:
			
		

> I think that would have to be "Il va me tuer, ma fille".


Yes, or "he's going to kill my daughter _for_ me" in the same way you might say "he's going to catch me a fish" or "he's going to find me my car - I parked it somewhere here and can't remember where".


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## Outsider

marget said:
			
		

> I think that would have to be "Il va me tuer, ma fille".


As a matter of fact, the original sentence _should_ have a comma:

Il va me la tuer, ma fille.


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## Kelly B

No. _Me _would be read as the direct object of _kill, _rather than _my daughter_, which completely changes the meaning of the sentence.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

timpeac said:
			
		

> A mother, daughter and an assassin are in a room, and the murderer takes out a knife to stab the daughter. Would the mother really say "don't kill my daughter on me" (imagine the emotional effect that will have on poor old me) or would she say "don't kill my daughter!" (I beg you, leave her alone!). I just can't imagine the first, at all.


C'est justement ce que je voulais dire : en français, dans une telle situation, on ne dirait pas la phrase du titre de ce fil ! Mais plutôt tout simplement "ne tuez pas ma fille !".
Donc, je pense qu'on dirait "me la tuer" dans le sens "la fatiguer", "la rendre malade"... enfin quelque chose du genre, beaucoup moins fort qu'un meurtre au premier degré en tout cas ! 
J'espère être plus claire en français, mais j'ai encore des doutes...


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## panzemeyer

KaRiNe_Fr said:
			
		

> C'est justement ce que je voulais dire : en français, dans une telle situation, on ne dirait pas la phrase du titre de ce fil ! Mais plutôt tout simplement "ne tuez pas ma fille !".
> Donc, je pense qu'on dirait "me la tuer" dans le sens "la fatiguer", "la rendre malade"... enfin quelque chose du genre, beaucoup moins fort qu'un meurtre au premier degré en tout cas !
> J'espère être plus claire en français, mais j'ai encore des doutes...


I second Karine. The "il va me la tuer ma fille" must not be taken literally. There's an ironical nuance to it, because the daughter most probably won't get killed at all. Thing is, the mother can't help exaggerating what's happening to her daughter, because she's so outraged. Here's a typical scenario: a boyfriend gets mad at his girlfriend and hits her repeatedly. Then comes the mother: "mais il va me la tuer ma fille !!!". Meaning: how dare you hit my precious daughter you brute? It could even be a funny scene to witness (well, assuming the guy doesn't hit really hard).


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## Nicomon

panzemeyer said:
			
		

> I second Karine. The "il va me la tuer ma fille" must not be taken literaly. There's an ironical nuance to it, because the daughter most probably won't get killed at all. Thing is, the mother can't help exaggerating what's happening to her daughter, because she's so outraged. Here's a typical scenario: a boyfriend gets mad at his girlfriend and hits her repeatedly. Then comes the mother: "mais il va me la tuer ma fille !!!". Meaning: how dare you hit my precious daughter you brute? It could even be a funny scene to witness (well, assuming the guy doesn't hit really hard).


 
I second Karine and Panzemeyer  
I suggested 2 options, because Loic's "kill" sort of "got me on a side track" - but this is what I was trying to convey in my not so good English, example # 2 (post # 7)  

May be inversing the sentence?  

But that man's going to kill my daughter, my precious daughter. Somebody stop him.  Hmmm...


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## timpeac

How about this -

"he's going to be the death of my daughter!"

(figurative only in English).


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## marget

timpeac said:
			
		

> How about this -
> 
> "he's going to be the death of my daughter!"
> 
> (figurative only in English).


 
Sounds good to me!


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## Loic

Wowww c'est la première fois que j'utilise un thread et je viens de découvrir ce site. Quelle vitesse pour les réponses ! I can't cope ! Thanks to you all !!!! D'abord, oui, on n'a jamais assez de contexte. There's no comma in the sentence. Il s'agit d'un couple qui se déchire par enfant interposé. La femme sait que l'ex emmène leur fille en voiture avec une conduite dangereuse, elle a peur de l'accident dans laquelle sa/leur fille serait tuée, "sa fille" la chair de sa chair ! Donc, à mon avis "kill" est approprié mais pas 'murder' ? La conséquence est lourdement une vengeance de l'ex contre elle, d'où: 'me'
Bien que n'étant pas 'native speaker' _killed me my daughter'_ ne sonne pas anglais pour moi, je m'en méfie... 
_'on me'_ comme vous êtes plusieurs à le dire, ne va pas ici... Merci notamment à Marget de me donner des exemples de son utilisation, cela m'apprend beaucoup - Et c'est là qu'on s'aperçoit que seuls les gens parfaitement bilingues peuvent résoudre ce genre de situation, et moi je ne suis que francophone malgré tout mon travail sur l'anglais ! -
_'He's going to be the death of my daughter_ ' why not ??? It conveys some form of emphasis .  Nobody mentioned the possibility of : _'He 's going to kill this daughter of mine '_, is that totally irrelevant ?Well, thanks to you all again!!!!!!
Loïc


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## Nicomon

Loic said:
			
		

> Donc, à mon avis "kill"  est approprié mais pas 'murder' ? La conséquence est lourdement une vengeance de l'ex contre elle, d'où: 'me'
> _'He's going to be the death of my daughter_ ' why not ???
> _'He 's going to kill this daughter of mine '_, is that totally irrelevant ?Well, thanks to you all again!!!!!!
> Loïc


 
Dans le contexte, oui, "kill" convient tout à fait. Rien à voir avec le "figure of speach" fatiguer ou rendre malade.  

_Kill me my daughter... Pas du tout  _

_'He 's going to kill this daughter of mine ' _ Je crois que ça ne convient pas vraiment ici. À mon avis (je peux me tromper) la particule "this" a parfois une connotation négative. Je le dirais par exemple si j'étais fâchée contre ma fille. "Wait until she gets home. I will punish this daughter of mine". 

_He's going to be the death of my daughter_? Peut-être... mais je ne suis pas entièrement convaincue. Je crois qu'on change de registre de langage. Je reviens donc à ma suggestion initiale... amendée un peu.

_I will lose my precious daughter. That crazy man will kill her._
_ou_
_I will lose my daughter to that mad man. He's going to kill her._
_ou_
_That mad man will kill my precious daughter. _

Toujours pas parfait, je sais.  Mais je crois que l'idée y est.


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## timpeac

Hmmm following the last post it's given me an idea -

He's going to loose me my daughter!


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## Nicomon

timpeac said:
			
		

> Hmmm following the last post it's given me an idea -
> 
> He's going to loose me my daughter!


 
I really like that one Timpeac.


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## calembourde

I like timpeac's suggestion too, but I have to point out that the word is 'lose' with only one o. Loose means something different.


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## timpeac

calembourde said:
			
		

> I like timpeac's suggestion too, but I have to point out that the word is 'lose' with only one o. Loose means something different.


Ahh, I just noticed that and was going to edit it but you've immortalised it for all to see! You never know, the daughter may be looseable too!


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## Nicomon

calembourde said:
			
		

> I like timpeac's suggestion too, but I have to point out that the word is 'lose' with only one o. Loose means something different.



To think that I edited my posts, because I thought *I* had made the mistake using only one o.


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## timpeac

Nicomon said:
			
		

> To think that I edited my posts, because I thought *I* had made the mistake using only one o.


Enough already, do you have to rub it in?


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## Loic

Thanks NIcomon and Timpeac and don't fret, spelling worldwide is on the lOOse these days,.But I got the idea all the same: 'lose me my daughter" seems adequate for lack of anything closer to the French. To tell you the truth, and this might please Nicomon, my mind started wandering on this subject after reading a similar sentence in a novel by a "Québecoise" writer: Marie Laberge _: Quelques Adieux,_ a very moving novel...( Linda Lemay's fave of the moment, from what she claimed on a French TV talkshow). You do have fabulous writers and artists in Quebec !
Bye for now to everybody.


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## ChiMike

Loic said:
			
		

> Bonjour,
> Je me demande comment rendre cette phrase avec exactitude, en raison du "me" qui semble bien français. Ou faut-il considérer qu'il n'y a pas de structure équivalente en anglais et dire simplement 'He's going to kill my daughter' ?
> 
> Merci d'avance pour vos avis 'avisés'
> Loïc


Don Quixote (Don Quichotte): Part II, Chapter 18:

Ormsby Translation (1886):

The carter, seeing the determination of this apparition in armour, said to him, "Please your worship, for charity's sake, senor, let me unyoke the mules and place myself in safety along with them before the lions are turned out; for if they kill them on me I am ruined for life, for all I possess is this cart and mules." 

Viardot (1836):

Le charretier, qui vit la résolution de ce fantôme armé en guerre, lui dit alors :

« Que Votre Grâce, mon bon seigneur, veuille bien par charité me laisser dételer mes mules, et gagner avec elles un lieu de sûreté avant que les lions s’échappent. S’ils me les tuaient, je serais perdu le reste de mes jours, car je n’ai d’autre bien que ce chariot et ces mules.

Alors,

He is going to kill her on me, my (poor) daughter!

paraît possible (bien que ça me semble "overkill").

Pour voir ce qu'ont fait des autres interprètes en de telles circonstances, je voudrais bien lire une traduction anglaise de ce passage de Quatre-Vingt-Treize (Hugo), mais je n'en ai pas, et je n'en trouve pas en ligne:

In Daemone Deus
Trouvés Mais Perdus
***
Au secours ! Ce n'est pas possible qu'il y ait des hommes sur la terre et qu'on laisse ces pauvres petits mourir comme cela ! <...> Qu'est-ce que c'est que cette affreuse maison-là ? On me les a volés pour me les tuer ! Jésus misère ! je veux mes enfants.
 Does anyone have a copy of Hugo "93"?


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## macta123

Perhaps,

 He is going to kill my daughter (in front of me)

 Me --> Perhaps being used to show literally the experience by the mother (in this case)


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## Loic

Thanks a lot ChiMike and congratulations for your 'erudition'. Your reply is very interesting, backed up as it is by the Classics. So 'on me ' is a possible translation after all...


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## Nicomon

ChiMike said:
			
		

> Trouvés Mais Perdus
> ***
> Au secours ! Ce n'est pas possible qu'il y ait des hommes sur la terre et qu'on laisse ces pauvres petits mourir comme cela ! <...> Qu'est-ce que c'est que cette affreuse maison-là ? On me les a volés pour me les tuer ! Jésus misère ! je veux mes enfants.
> Does anyone have a copy of Hugo "93"?


 
On the same line of thoughts... the English copy I'm looking for is Alexandre Dumas - Georges - Chapter XXIII (Un coeur de père) of which this is an extract. 

*Te prendre ! murmura-t-il ; te trancher la tête ! me prendre mon enfant, me le tuer ! tuer mon Georges !*

To be honest... it wasn't part of my "erudition"... I found it under this link.  
http://www.dumaspere.com/pages/biblio/chapitre.php?lid=r23&cid=23


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