# Lebanese: inta 7âsis mirté7 hella2?/berdén?



## Tilmeedh

The context is that someone seems cold or otherwise uncomfortable, and the speaker asks, "inta 7âsis mirté7 hella2?", and upon hearing that the addressee is a bit cold, says "berdén?" I was able to figure out what was meant from the context, but I'd like to know why the speaker didn't say something like "inta t7is mirté7 hella2?" Is "7âsis" an active participle or something? And am I correct in thinking that "berdén?" is used to express surprise--something like English "really?"? Is it fuS7a as well?

(Please forgive any errors in this post--I'm still quite new at this.)

Merci!


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## clevermizo

Tilmeedh said:


> why the speaker didn't say something like "inta t7is mirté7 hella2?"



With verbs of feeling and cognition, the active participle (7aases, 7aassa, 7assiin) is used in place of the present tense (how you feel right at the moment of utterance) and the regular present (b7iss, bit7iss, biy7iss, etc.) is reserved for the habitual meaning ("I feel cold whenever I ....).



> Is "7âsis" an active participle or something?


It is the active participle. It describes the state of the speaker, in this case "feeling" something.



> And am I correct in thinking that "berdén?" is used to express surprise--something like English "really?"


Nope. _Bardaan_ بردان (or _bardeen_ in a typical Lebanese pronunciation) is an adjective meaning "cold." It's used typically for when someone "feels" cold (as opposed to the weather "being" cold, or food being cold, etc.). It is formed on the pattern فعلان and is similar to jo3aan, ta3baan, 3aTshaan, etc. In this case, I guess the question was, "[You're] cold?" It may have shown surprise by the tone of the speaker, but the word only means "cold."



> ? Is it fuS7a as well?


I don't believe so. I think you would use _baarid_ بارد instead, but I'm not sure.


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## elroy

clevermizo said:


> I don't believe so. I think you would use _baarid_ بارد instead, but I'm not sure.


 You're right that بردان is not used in fus7a, but you can't say that a person is بارد unless you are describing their disposition or behavior.  The fus7a equivalent of أنا بردان is أشعر بالبرد.

Everything else in your post is spot on. 

Edit: I also want to point out that in Palestinian Arabic you have to say "7aases *7aalak *mirtaa7."  I'm surprised to learn that it's different in Lebanese.


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## yasmeena

elroy said:


> Edit: I also want to point out that in Palestinian Arabic you have to say "7aases *7aalak *mirtaa7."


 
This definitely sounds more natural to my ears.


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## Tilmeedh

elroy said:


> Edit: I also want to point out that in Palestinian Arabic you have to say "7aases *7aalak *mirtaa7." I'm surprised to learn that it's different in Lebanese.


 
What does "7aalak" mean here?


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## mini91

"jo3aan, ta3baan, 3aTshaan"  Sorry I have forgotten what the words mean can you remind me again please?


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## clevermizo

mini91 said:


> "jo3aan, ta3baan, 3aTshaan"  Sorry I have forgotten what the words mean can you remind me again please?



Hungry, tired and thirsty respectively.


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## mini91

clevermizo said:


> Hungry, tired and thirsty respectively.


 
Yes thats it! I knew it that I knew these words hehe


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## xebonyx

Tilmeedh said:


> What does "7aalak" mean here?


 
Your condition (state of being).


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## clevermizo

xebonyx said:


> Your condition (state of being).



Actually in Levantine Arabic 7aalak means "yourself" (= nafsak). So 7aases 7aali means literally "I feel myself (to be X....)."

For example, when I am asked where/how I study Arabic, I usually reply "la7aali."


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## xebonyx

clevermizo said:


> For example, when I am asked where/how I study Arabic, I usually reply "la7aali."


 
Hehe. Didn't know that one. Thanks.

Although, I would think that literally, you can say it's your condition, but maybe that's just my MSA talking.


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## clevermizo

xebonyx said:


> Hehe. Didn't know that one. Thanks.
> 
> Although, I would think that literally, you can say it's your condition, but maybe that's just my MSA talking.



Well, il-7aal I guess can technically also mean condition as well, but I think for this people might prefer il-waD3. Anyway, in this particular phrase both interpretations can work, but in general 7aali, 7aalak, 7aalek = nafsi, nafsak, nafsek.


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## elroy

Clevermizo is right.  "7aal" is rarely used to actually mean "condition," even though that's the literal meaning.


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## Farrouha

Tilmeedh said:


> The context is that someone seems cold or otherwise uncomfortable, and the speaker asks, "inta 7âsis mirté7 hella2?", and upon hearing that the addressee is a bit cold, says "berdén?" I was able to figure out what was meant from the context, but I'd like to know why the speaker didn't say something like "inta t7is mirté7 hella2?" Is "7âsis" an active participle or something? And am I correct in thinking that "berdén?" is used to express surprise--something like English "really?"? Is it fuS7a as well?
> 
> (Please forgive any errors in this post--I'm still quite new at this.)
> 
> Merci!


 
Hi there Tilmeedh,
The absolute correct way to say the phrase is "Inta 7asis 7alak mirte7 halla2?", it's more correct to add the '7alak', and it's incorrect or unusual to say "inta t7es mirte7 hala2?" because it sounds somewhat broken  

In Lebanon, when you want to describe how you are feeling presently,at that moment, you say 7asis/7esis (for males) and 7asse/7asse (for females), otherwise, when you want to describe how you felt in the past or a while ago, you then use '7is' (used for both males and females) (eg. Kint 7is 7ale 7azeen [I was feeling sad])

You can also say '3am b7is' (which is describing how you're currently feeling, "I am feeling"...) and you can also use 7asis/7asse for the past state, but dont forget to add the word 'Kint' (I was) 

If you're asking the person you're talking to how they were feeling in the past, you used 't7is' (Shou kint 3am t7is?) and if in the present, you say 'Shou 3am t7is/shou 7asis?) Notice the word 'Kint' disappeared

Berden simply means cold, but you can also say about a person that he is 'berid' which could also mean that he has a cold/distant attitude, you know what I mean? Otherwise, Berid/Berden/Bared only describe coldness (both in physical meaning and emotional meaning) and to describe surprise, in Lebanon they say "3anjad!?" 

Oh man! I hope I didn't confuse you, I even confused myself when I was writing this!


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## Tilmeedh

Thanks everyone for all the help so far. I'm still confused, but I guess that's to be expected 



Farrouha said:


> _t's incorrect or unusual to say "inta t7es mirte7 hala2?" because it sounds somewhat broken  _


_

That makes sense. But you could say something like "3am bt7is...?" instead, right?




			[O]therwise, when you want to describe how you felt in the past or a while ago, you then use '7is' (used for both males and females) (eg. Kint 7is 7ale 7azeen [I was feeling sad])
		
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If you were talking about a female in the third person, you would say "Kénit 7is...", right? And I seem to remember being told that in Lebanese you say "zalin" or something along those lines for "sad"? Is my memory failing me or do you use both words interchangeably?




			If you're asking the person you're talking to how they were feeling in the past, you used 't7is' (Shou kint 3am t7is?) and if in the present, you say 'Shou 3am t7is/shou 7asis?) Notice the word 'Kint' disappeared
		
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Why do you say "shou" instead of "kîf" here? Are there any rules about this, or does the learner just have to make use of his memory? (Cf. "Kîf 7âlek/7âlik?")




			Berden simply means cold, but you can also say about a person that he is 'berid' which could also mean that he has a cold/distant attitude, you know what I mean? Otherwise, Berid/Berden/Bared only describe coldness (both in physical meaning and emotional meaning) and to describe surprise, in Lebanon they say "3anjad!?"
		
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So berdén is for the physical sense and bérid is for the emotional sense? And I've never heard of the expression "3anjad"; how does it pertain to coldness?

Also, does this physical/emotional distinction occur with "hot", "warm", or other adjectives?_


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## elroy

Farrouha said:


> In Lebanon, when you want to describe how you are feeling presently,at that moment, you say 7asis/7esis (for males) and 7asse/7asse (for females), otherwise, when you want to describe how you felt in the past or a while ago, you then use '7is' (used for both males and females) (eg. Kint 7is 7ale 7azeen [I was feeling sad])


 Your example doesn't mean "I was feeling sad" but "I used to feel sad" or "I would feel sad [in the past]."  This is an important distinction.  "I was feeling sad" is "kunet *7aases *7aali 7aziin/za3laan."


> You can also say '3am b7is' (which is describing how you're currently feeling, "I am feeling"...)


 I'm afraid this statement is confusing.  "3am ba7is" and "7aases 7aali" are not interchangeable.

You would not say "3am ba7is 7aali bardaan" to mean "I am feeling cold" (or would you?).  In fact, at the moment I can't think of a context in which "3am ba7is" would be used naturally.





> If you're asking the person you're talking to how they were feeling in the past, you used 't7is' (Shou kint 3am t7is?)


 This question, to me, sounds like a question about what emotions the person was feeling or what symptoms they were experiencing, and not how they were feeling in the sense of whether they were feeling cold or warm.  





Tilmeedh said:


> That makes sense. But you could say something like "3am bt7is...?" instead, right?


 No, you would say "7aases 7aalak...?".  See my comment above.





> If you were talking about a female in the third person, you would say "Kénit 7is...", right?


 It would be "*t*7is."





> And I seem to remember being told that in Lebanese you say "zalin" or something along those lines for "sad"? Is my memory failing me or do you use both words interchangeably?


 The word is "za3laan," or probably "za3lén" in Lebanese.





> Why do you say "shou" instead of "kîf" here? Are there any rules about this, or does the learner just have to make use of his memory? (Cf. "Kîf 7âlek/7âlik?")


  You can use "shuu 7aases" and "kiif 7aases."  The former asks what kinds of emotions/symptoms you are experiencing; the latter asks how you are feeling (cold, warm, scared, etc.).





> So berdén is for the physical sense and bérid is for the emotional sense?


 Yes. 





> And I've never heard of the expression "3anjad"; how does it pertain to coldness?


 It doesn't.  Farrouha was responding to your question about whether you can use "bardaan" to express surprise.





> Also, does this physical/emotional distinction occur with "hot", "warm", or other adjectives?


 Well, there are different words for each of those ("shoob," "shawbaan," "mshawweb," and "sukhon" for "hot" and "dafyaan" and "daafi" for "warm") but you don't really use any of them to describe a person's personality.  It's just that some are used to describe the weather and some are used to describe the temperature of things as opposed to people.

Disclaimer: Everything I said refers to Palestinian Arabic, but I am fairly certain it's the same in Lebanese.  If there are any discrepancies, I would ask Lebanese natives to point them out.  My transliteration is also based on Palestinian Arabic, unless otherwise indicated.


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## yasmeena

> I'm afraid this statement is confusing. "3am ba7is" and "7aases 7aali" are not interchangeable.
> 
> You would not say "3am ba7is 7aali bardaan" to mean "I am feeling cold" (or would you?). In fact, at the moment I can't think of a context in which "3am ba7is" would be used naturally.


 
For the present moment, it is '7aasis 7aale'. For recurrence, I'd use '3am 7is 7aale' :
ma ba2a badde ruu7 la 3anda, 3am 7is 7aale damme t2eel. (i.e. every time I go to her I feel like that).




> If you're asking the person you're talking to how they were feeling in the past, you used 't7is' (Shou kint 3am t7is?)


Again, it sounds to me like a question about a recurrent past experience. To ask about a certain moment or experience in the past, I'd say 'shu kint 7aasis?'.


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## elroy

yasmeena said:


> For the present moment, it is '7aasis 7aale'. For recurrence, I'd use '3am 7is 7aale' :
> ma ba2a badde ruu7 la 3anda, 3am 7is 7aale damme t2eel. (i.e. every time I go to her I feel like that).


 That's a good example.  Thanks for confirming that you don't say "3am ba7is" to refer to your current state.


> To ask about a certain moment or experience in the past, I'd say 'shu kint 7aasis?'.


 I would too in most cases, but there are situations in which "shuu kunet 3am bit7is?" would work; for example, "Shuu kunet 3am bit7is hadiik il-leele tannak ma3riftesh itnaam?" (asking about medical symptoms).


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