# yaşındaki / olan biri



## sufler

Merhaba.
On another language forum I've been told that the only correct way to translate a sentence like_ "Hikmet has a 4-year-old son" _is *Hikmet'in dört yaşında bir oğlu var.
*It was a kind of a shock for me, because until that day I had been convinced that expressions like "someone that is ... years old" must be translated using "ki" or "olan"...
So I would have surely said *Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki / olan oğlu var.

*Today I discussed this question with my university teacher and he also claims that a single indication of "being" (like ki or olan) must appear in this construction and he also said he doesn't know why a Turk suggested me to drop that part. And now I am really confused... I don't know who to trust  So, please explain to me, by giving some examples, when the ki is required and when not.


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## Gemmenita

sufler said:


> Merhaba.
> (...) a sentence like_ "Hikmet has a 4-year-old son" _is *Hikmet'in dört yaşında bir oğlu var.
> *(...) that expressions like "someone that is ... years old" must be translated using "ki" or "olan"...
> So I would have surely said *Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki / olan oğlu var.
> 
> *



Merhaba sufler,

As you have written, your sentences are a bit two different cases (although they both seem to talk about the age):

1.The first one is : _Hikmet *has* a 4-year-old son.
_When you are giving the age you should say *yaşında.

*The age and the name together are the object for Hikmet and the verb "to have", 
or in other sentences:
Onun oğlu 4 yaşinda.

2.With the structure of the second one, the sentence should continue (it doesn't go with "var"), for example:

Hikmet'in dört yaşında*ki/olan* oğlu  *çok tatlı*.

"dört yaşında*ki /olan*" are the adjectif defining "oğlan" and all together subject for "çok tatlı".

or another examples:
Onun 80 yaşında bir dedesi var.
Onun 80 yaşındaki dedesi şimdi beni aradı.


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## FlyingBird

Örnekler:

Arkadaşımın 10 yaşında bir çocuğu var.
sizin 1 yaşında bir kardeşiniz var. 
Arkadaşımın 25 yaşında bir abisi var.
Senin 5 yaşında bir kedin var.

Arkadaşımın 10 yaşındaki çocuğu her gün şarkı söylüyor.
Sizin 1 yaşındaki kardeşiniz yürümeye başladı.
Arkadaşımın 25 yaşındaki abisi güzel bir araba kullanıyor.
Senin 5 yaşındaki kedin çok güzel.


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## Muttaki

sufler said:


> So I would have surely said *Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki / olan oğlu var.
> 
> *Today I discussed this question with my university teacher and he also claims that a single indication of "being" (like ki or olan) must appear in this construction and he also said he doesn't know why a Turk suggested me to drop that part.



Why were you thinking that when we say "that is..." it can always be "ki" or "olan"? I think when we say "Hikmet'in dört yaşında olan bir oğlu var.", it is quite proper; though not a common way of saying things like he has a 4-year-old son. It is like you want to express explicitly this is his age, i.e. 4 (this is when you use "olan" in this translation). 

On the other hand, to say "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki oğlu var." doesn't sound correct at all, considering the English sentence you gave. Without it, I would think when said "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki oğlu var" that you want to make it clear that one of the sons of Hikmet, the one who is 4 years old, exists. Translating it with "-ki" is wrong because its function is to specify the one son who is 4 and implies Hikmet has other sons as well.

I als would argue that these examples are more appropriate if you are using "-ki" or "olan" (keeping in mind the English sentence you gave, as to translate it:

"Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki oğlu çok tatlı" or "Hikmet'in dört yaşında olan oğlu çok tatlı"

Lastly, I should say it is also surprising that your instructor said "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki / olan oğlu var" would be a correct translation of "Hikmet has a 4-year-old son".


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## Reverence

Well... How natural does "Hikmet is in possession of a male offspring who happens to be 4 years old" sound?

There's right or wrong, then there's straight or roundabout. "Hikmet'in dört yaşında olan bir oğlu var" is perfectly acceptable, but _olan _here is just plain redundant. Especially considering how we're already using _var _there.


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## Dib

Muttaki said:


> ... I would think when said "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki oğlu var" that you want to make it clear that one of the sons of Hikmet, the one who is 4 years old, exists.



My Turkish is rudimentary, but I also understand it this way. I am, however, curious to find out what "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki *bir *oğlu var" sound like to you.


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## Muttaki

Dib said:


> My Turkish is rudimentary, but I also understand it this way. I am, however, curious to find out what "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki *bir *oğlu var" sound like to you.



"Hikmet'in dört yaşında*ki* *bir* oğlu var." With the word "bir" it doesn't change. Still, when you are using the suffix "-ki", "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki bir oğlu" as a whole becomes the subject of the sentence and hence saying "var" makes it "the son exists". But I should say adding "bir" there, is not better but may be worse, because it sounds a little bit weird.

Again, don't take it otherwise, "Hikmet'in dört yaşındaki oğlu var" is completely correct as being translation of "The 4-year-old son of Hikmet exists." 

And "Hikmet'in dört yaşında bir oğlu var" is translation of "Hikmet has a 4-year-old son."


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## Dib

Thanks a lot for your detailed answers.


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