# Language Learning: At what age are foreign languages taught?



## french4beth

Just found an article on msnbc.com today (here) about how Washington area schools have decided to teach foreign languages to younger children, starting in kindergarden (5 year old kids). Here is an excerpt:


> Educators say that the youngest brains have the greatest aptitude for absorbing language and that someone who is bilingual at a young age will have an easier time learning a third or fourth language later on. Compared with adults or even high school students, young children are better able to learn German with near-native pronunciation or mimic the subtle tones of Mandarin.


I am firmly convinced that the earlier you start studying a foreign language, the better you'll learn it, and the better your accent will be. I started studying French when I was 8, and have a pretty darn good accent. I not only learned my native language, English, better due to studying foreign languages, but it also helped me in studying subsequent foreign languages.

The town where I currently live has had to eliminate Spanish language instruction at the middle school level due to budget cuts & mandatory compliance with the "No Child Left Behind" legislation.  Foreign language instruction is available in high school.

What is the situation where you live (either now, or when you were in school)?

If you have studied a foreign language, at what age did you start studying it?

How fluent are you, and do you think that your age at the time you started studying it has anything to do with your fluency?


Thanks! 
Beth


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## Miguelillo 87

Well  it’s an interesting question, here on Mexico we have some schools which are bilingual, and the students are taught in two languages French or English normally, unfortunately these schools are privates and not all the people has the money to pay fir them, Now in Government schools English and French are taught at the age of 11 yrs old, too old, but it’s really basic. As a matter of fact it’s better to start your studies when you want it there are a lot of Languages schools which accepted children of 10 yrs ar less.
In my personal life, I lived few years in El Paso Texas so I learnt some English and the accent later in Mexico I begin my studies but when I did my best was at the age of 16 to 18.


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## Kräuter_Fee

I learned Spanish and Portuguese at the same time, I'm bilingual.

I started with English when I was 6 and have never stopped studying it (I'll be translator/interpreter soon, hopefully). I started with German when I was about to turn 18, I have to say my English was much better before I started with German. I learned German really fast (being bilingual, speaking a foreign language fluently, living in Germany for a year and speaking in German with my boyfriend helped a lot).

I think being bilingual was the biggest advantage I had... but of course, the earlier you start learning a language the better.

In was brought up in Portugal and over there foreign languages are very important. First off, films are not dubbed, even many cartoons aren't dubbed (at least they weren't in my time), children start learning English at an early age. In Spain however, everything is dubbed and foreign languages aren't so important as in Portugal. Portuguese people speak English much much better than Spaniards.


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## doddle

I started learning French at high school when I was 11.
At the time, I didn't have any choice in which language I learnt, French was the only option.
That was my first exposure to any foreign language.
When I left high school (over a decade ago), aged almost 16, my French was almost non-existent, although, despite this, I still almost managed to pass my GCSE French exam (C grade was considered a pass and I got a D).
I'm not sure how things are these days in UK schools regarding language learning, but from what I've read I don't think things have improved much. Maybe someone else knows more about it...

About three years ago I started learning Spanish by myself.
I probably learnt more in the first three months of self study then I did in five years of studying French at high school.
A few months ago I sat and passed the DELE Superior exam (a Spanish proficiency exam for non-natives set by the Cervantes Institute and recognised by the Spanish government), which supposedly puts me at a "near native" level of fluency, although I know I still have a *lot* to learn.


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## Lavinia.dNP

In Italy we start learning one foreign language when we are 11.
Usually it's English, and sometimes French, but in schools foreign languages have really no importance.
The teaching level is really poor, lessons are not held in the language you're supposed to learn, literature exams are not held in the foreign language.

A real disaster!


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## übermönch

This is very right. All the 3 native languages I know I learnt in my early youth, so, both my German and Russian are completely fluent; my English _was_ fluent when I was around 9, but the education at school completely  wasted it - I adopted the terrible accent from my classmates and teachers and had to speak on a very low level very much.  So, in my opinion, the early youth is the only right time to start learning a language - that's how a human developes.


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## mytwolangs

There is sometimes talk around here about "learning a language from childhood". Yes that is the best time to learn, but if someone starts later in life (like me with French, I am over 30) is it just hopeless than? 

Seems with anything a person wants to learn, they always say - "...earlier in life...better..." as if it does no good to learn later. 

If such is the case, does it do any good to try or learn ANYthing that is new once you are grown up?
Sure, time may be limited, but does that mean mental capacity is limited?


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## venenum

The earlier, the better is the rule that is made according to Chomsky's Critical Period Hypotesis, which says that until around puberty a child is able to "internalize the language structures", which means that it accepts the grammar rules without understanding them, and simply applies them instinctively, the same pattern that occurs when speaking your native language. 

And also, it is proven that a child is able to "pick up" the accent (with grown-ups it's almost impossible to develop the native-speaker's proficiency in articulation because around the puberty - critical period again - the articulatory organs lose flexibility and aren't able to reproduce the sounds that don't occur in their native language), and develope better fluency. 

But don't get me wrong here, it is proven also that the older learners have a great advantage of learning meaninful connected units with understanding. With both groups the quantity of input (the time you spend actually hearing/speaking the language) plays the key-role.

So, never mind how old you are, you just need to spend enough time listening the language, speaking the language, and with adults, also, learnig the grammar, and you won't regret. 


ps
When I was in elementary scool, we used to learn a foreign language (usually English or German) from the age of 10, and then, depending on your choice of high-school, you might get a second foreign language at the age of 15. Today, the foreign languages are taught from the age of 6 (from the first grade), and the second foreign language is taught from the age of 10.


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## mytwolangs

So if childhood is the best age, and after that it is almost impossible to learn a new language, then WHY do colleges insist on a foreign language study in order to earn anything beyond an associates (2 year) degree? 
Especially since most folks in America have no desire to learn another language? It is true that most of us here either know or study another language (or more) but we WANT to do this. 

Also interesting is the fact that most small children do not have a good grasp on their native language, and then to confuse them with a whole new set of grammar rules/words/protocols...

As far as articulation - Many people have a heck of a time doing it in their own lang. 
I ain't gotta say a lot bout that, do I?


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## venenum

Childhood is in fact the best age to learn a new language, but it is very much *possible *to learn the language as an adult, although it is impossible to gain native-like proficiency as a late learner. But, you don't have to have a perfect accent in order to communicate in a foreign language, which is the point of learning it, isn't it?


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## karuna

mytwolangs said:
			
		

> Also interesting is the fact that most small children do not have a good grasp on their native language, and then to confuse them with a whole new set of grammar rules/words/protocols...



Many children grew up bilinguals or even trilinguals without any negative consequences. I don't see how teaching a foreign language to small children could be a problem. Naturally teaching level should be appropriate — maybe more games and not so much boring grammar but it can and should be done.


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## Arenita

Childhood is one of the best stages of our lives to learn, in this case, languages.
As in Mexico (Miguelillo's post), in Peru we learn foreign languages only at private schools.  At state schools you can learn English, but the level is terrible.  
Since languages are very important nowadays, many private schools are teaching not only one foreign language but two: English and French, English and German, and now English and Chinese.


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## mytwolangs

One sad thing about learning a foreign language in American schools is you normally have to carry a high grade in English. 
I wanted to study French when I was in High school, but of course - "Oh no, your grades in English are not good enough."

The whole foreign language system in America pretty much sucks.


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## venenum

It kind of makes sense. The fact is, that - if learning a foreign language when older, after the critical period - you should have a good knowledge of your mother tongue, especially concerning grammar, because one of the methods used to teach most of the foreign languages is the contrastive method, where you compare native and foreign language grammar, and learn through similarities and differences. If you don't posess good knowledge of the native grammar, you won't be able to comprehend a foreign one. 
In Croatia, where foreign language learning is obligatory, many kids have a big problem with this.
Nevertheless, I believe it's wrong to deny someone an opportunity to learn a language if he wants to do it, because where's a will, there's a way.


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## panjabigator

It would be nice if they started teaching in Kindergarten.  Maybe two hours a day or so.  Or maybe half the day.  My school had so many Spanish monolinguals, it would be nice for them too.


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## cesarynati

My 2 kids are 2+3 and speak english and spanish fluently (for babies)(we live in spain ans I speak to them in English)
My family franco phone therefore they hear it and understand it but son't feel confident to speak apart from saying Bonjour!!!+
theearlier the better, and even if they can't speak it properly, childrens minds are like sponges adn absorb everything. young children may take longer to start to speak yet once they start they'll speak everything!
My esldest even translataes to my ENG friends that can't understand Spanish!
Put them into a foreign school (depending on the country you live in , obviously) 
I am of mother tongue ENG and FR and in 4 months ended up speaking Spanish very well, as latin languages are similar and picked up easily as they are fairly similar. And Germanic languages are the other family for example.
Start at an early age as languages open up many doors for the future!
Good luck!


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## panjabigator

Why aren't you teaching them your mother tongue, French?


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## MSanchezC

In Mexico, only in private schools teach english (others teach french or german) since kindergarden, when the children are about 5 or 6 years old. In my opinion, I think it would be better if official schools (government) teach another language since the early years, it´s the best way to learn a foreign language because you´re like a sponge, you absorb everything, your mind is open and fresh.


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## french4beth

There are some public schools that have bilingual English & Spanish instruction for all students enrolled in the program (article here). It's beneficial to all students, from what the article says.


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## mytwolangs

french4beth said:
			
		

> There are some public schools that have bilingual English & Spanish instruction for all students enrolled in the program (article here). It's beneficial to all students, from what the article says.


 
I don't know much about the program, but my child's old elementary school would sometimes try to teach them a bit of French. Seems pretty cool. It was not a lot, but a bit of exposure. I never found out much about it, mostly cause we were too busy fighting with the Admin over other things, non language related...
Why not Spanish? I guess they figured that in some towns like our old one, Spanish speakers are a dime a dozen and people could learn that anywhere.

venenum - It is true, to try to force a language or culture on a population never works well. That is why some Americans detest Spanish.


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## modus.irrealis

french4beth said:
			
		

> What is the situation where you live (either now, or when you were in school)?


I started French in Grade 4, which I guess means I was 10 years old, but the basic French here is all but useless. Once I got interested in learning French, I switched to the French Immersion program in Grade 7, which when I was in school was a program that went from kindergarten to OAC (basically Grade 13). In that program, you're taught in French as well, and the kids that completed the whole thing were very strong in all aspects of French. I'm pretty good with reading/writing but my accent is poor, to say the least. I think getting a native-sounding accent requires starting young. I can't say though that I didn't have the opportunity to start learning young, or rather, I can't say my parents didn't have the opportunity to give me that opportunity.



> If you have studied a foreign language, at what age did you start studying it?
> 
> How fluent are you, and do you think that your age at the time you started studying it has anything to do with your fluency?


 I also study Greek but that's like half a mother tongue for me since it was the language at home, so I started at age 0 I guess. But I don't think it made that much of a difference compared to French, since my Greek accent is poor as well, especially if I speak for longer than a few sentences. I figure my Greek and French skills have roughly the same potential, although I think I'd have to live in a strictly Greek/French environment to reach that, but I can't see either coming all that close to my English-level fluency.


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## cesarynati

I teach them my mother tongue french however I think thta english is more important for their future as it is so universal.My family from my mothers side is English so I have been bilingual since I can remember,
They say that at puberty one looses the apt to speak a foreign language properly so you should make sure that they learn in an early stafe of life! xxx


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## venenum

well, not actually looses the ability completely, but looses the ability to learn it with native-like proficiency (you can no longer achieve the native-like accent, and it's harder to develop "Sprachgefühl" - the ability to use grammatic structures propperly without thinking about it). One of my professors started learning English and German at the age of 15, today this woman has a Ph.D. in English and German methodology, and speaks English with a perfect accent (German has never "agreed" with her completely, but she speaks it rather good, nevertheless).


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## zena168

People who are already fluent with more than one language will have a much easier time picking up a third or a fourth later on.  Maybe because their brain got wired up when brain growth was the most intensive.  It’s easier to teach a child a second language because they soak it up like a sponge.  But if their environment doesn’t call for the use of that adopted second language they’re also fast to lose that learned language regardless of age.  So no matter what age you are, there is still hope.  But it’s very much determined by how much you really “need” that language.  
 
Some of the California elementary schools have started the bilingual system for Spanish and English.  I think it’s great that children learn more than one language.  And I think Spanish is just about the best choice for most people.  But I hate the idea that people are being forced into a decision without alternatives [Or unless you’re rich then you can afford to live and work at whichever school you prefer].  I just rather have my child devote that time on something else I think is more important right now.


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## la coccinelle

American schools really need to work on their approach to teaching foreign languages. Throughout elementary school starting when I was five, I took Spanish in school with all of my other classmates. This was in a private school; in many public schools, budget cuts will not allow this. However, the teachers hired to teach Spanish to us were often inadequate, and the methods used were so elementary that even after five years I had learned very little, and now I don't know any. 

In high school I began studying French and Latin, both of which I love. (As mytwolangs suggested, my frustrating experience with, to put it frankly, terrible Spanish teachers did not make me eager to pick up Spanish again.) But I am the only person at my school that I know of who takes more than one foreign language, and I have had extreme difficulty fitting both classes into my schedule each year due to other class requirements. The school administration has not always been very accomodating, and I have had to continuously struggle to work out schedules and interject independent studies to keep the language classes up. 

When I tell other students that I take two languages, they think I must be crazy or extremely disciplined. Many students also have the attitude that they don't need to learn other languages because English can be used in so many situations. I feel very ashamed of this attitude considering that in other parts of the world, my knowledge of only two languages besides my own (and one of them being a so-called "dead" language) appears to be quite lacking. 

Still, I have found some students to be just in love with learning foreign languages as I have, and all of my foreign language teachers have been extremely helpful and inspiring. I only wish that I had time to study more than what I do currently...in future years, perhaps. I firmly believe that the study of such fascinating intricacies as grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary, and sentence construction, as well as foreign culture, history, etc. is crucial to any student's education.


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## coconutpalm

french4beth said:
			
		

> What is the situation where you live (either now, or when you were in school)?
> It seems that everyone in China is learning English!
> To be serious, I think our country is emphasizing too much on English, without considering the practical usage of it, and every single person's interests, abilities, etc.
> 
> If you have studied a foreign language, at what age did you start studying it?
> When I entered the junior high school.
> For today's children, they're supposed to learn English in Grade 4. In the cities, many parents force/make/let their children to learn English at a very young age.
> 
> How fluent are you, and do you think that your age at the time you started studying it has anything to do with your fluency?
> Fluent in most cases; when dealing with jargons, I can express myself with great difficulty!
> 
> I have heard that a child shouldn't learn any foreign language before the age of 7 or 8, because he/she will not be able to master his/her mother language. I don't know whether it's true or not.
> I agree that the earlier a child begins his/her study of a foreign language, the easier he/she will master it. However, one's master of his/her mother language greatly helps him/her to learn another language. I myself am an example. Thank goodness, my Chinese is not bad!


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## Vero1978

Lavinia.dNP said:
			
		

> In Italy we start learning one foreign language when we are 11.
> Usually it's English, and sometimes French, but in schools foreign languages have really no importance.
> The teaching level is really poor, lessons are not held in the language you're supposed to learn, literature exams are not held in the foreign language.
> 
> A real disaster!


In Italy school programs are changed almost 3 years ago, and now children learn english since 6 years old at school. My boy has 2 hours a week english lessons. 
Not so bad I would say!


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## Henryk

I'm performing community service in a French-German nursery in a French district in Berlin. All kids in my two groups (4-5 years) can express very clearly in both German and French (some even in more languages), it really amazes me how easy it is to them.

They can switch immediately between their languages. For example, when I talk French with them and a German educator comes by, they switch immediately to German. It's the same when their parents are picking them up. They start to aspirate any odd sounds I don't understand (for example Arabic).

But such an education is only limited to socially disadvantaged families here in order to integrate them in the society. However, also many parents are diplomates.


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## Tao

> What is the situation where you live (either now, or when you were in school)?
> 
> If you have studied a foreign language, at what age did you start studying it?
> 
> How fluent are you, and do you think that your age at the time you started studying it has anything to do with your fluency?



We started learning english in elementary school let's say at about the age of 10 or so I think or later. In highschool it was generally obligated to have english, french and german. I don't know how it exactly is with such schools right now but I don't think it's changed that much.

I myself grew up trilinguistically from birth on: dutch as main language in the country, surinamese as "mother language", and english was learned by watching TV mainly 
I'm very fluent in all of these three and when learning dutch and english in highschool I hardly had any problems with them. Also, when learning french and german in there I had no problems really. This partially has to do with being trilingual since there are always certain comparisons to be made between languages to help you understand, and due to being used to know three languages you will spot the logic in others more easily.
But the other reason which must not be neglected is that it also depends on the person himself. It has to do with memory, intelligence, being able to distinguish what's important and what's not, to make connections, and also the way you've basically been raised in your education, etc., etc.

The starting time definitely has influence on the learning process. As a child-- well, you're usually not that innocent, but you can (usually) think much more easily and to-the-point and pick things up just like that, while being an adult one has usually become much more corrupted and rotten as one could call it - basically less able to learn due to various reasons.
The fluency is definitely something more when you started early, but this is of course naturally so.


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## Riccardino

Early language learning doesn't even seem to be effective here in the US. I have friends who began studying Ukrainian starting at age 5, and others who started French at age 10, and at age 19 they remember nothing. I think poor instruction combined with no enthusiasm caused it.

I started language in highschool, with French at age 13. I learned to speak with a good accent, and I remember coming in the top 20 in an area French competition. 2 years removed from French the only thing that remains is reading ability at about a 6 or 7th grade level. I started Latin at 14, and can still read it and conjugate if need be - I did extremely well in latin competitions also.

I started Italian at age 18 in College. I like it a lot, and maybe want to pursue a minor, as well as study abroad in Italy. College-pace seems to really work for me, especially with my college's emphasis on no English in the class room and an overal emphasis on speaking ability. I'm having trouble making some sounds - my r is off and my consonants are aspirated. I'm told that I speak Italian with a mild French accent, which apparently sounds a little high-class.

In the rest of my time at college, I want to learn Arabic, take Spanish as a grade boost, and they have a special Portuguese class for those who know Spanish and Italian already which sounds really tempting.


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## Maja

In Belgrade, I started learning English as the first foreign language when I was in the 3rd grade of primary school (around 9). Then we got the second foreign language, which was in my case Russian, in the 5th grade (at 11) and we studied both of them through secondary school (I am speaking about Gymnasium and not a specialized secondary school where hey usually teach just English). 
The second foreign  language thought in schools is usually Russian or French and in some schools  German. 
Then at the Uni, people have obligatory foreign language course, but the choice of the language is optional (English/Russian/French and maybe German -> I'm not sure) and it is usually connected to the field of studies (like business English at the Economy Faculty, medical English at the Medical School etc.).


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## semisa

in China,english is almost the only foreign language available from primiry school to college,although there are several others(usually jananese or french) are optional as elective courses in college,the short basic couse doesn't help much.
As to english,of my age,we started at around 11(really late!),and most we learned before college is how to pass an exam,not much of literature or oral whatever.
But personally,I picked up spanish a few days ago and found it's much easier if you have a better mastery of english(you know Mandarin and spanish are totally two systems).


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## Lugubert

English at 11. From exposure etc., I'm at a level when after a week or two in Britain to revive my pronunciation I make people think English is my native language.

German at 13. Fluent, especially after working a couple of summers in German-speaking cities, but I occasionally make mistakes.

French at 14. No extended periods in the country, and us being science students, our teacher was more interested in teaching us to understand written French than driving us to speak the language. So I've ended up with professionally translating from French and having French (and Francophone Belgians) asking me to swich to English when I try speaking their language.

Nowadays, English often starts earlier, and young people often choose French over German as their second foreign language. Many schools offer a really broad range of languages. For example, in 2nd university semester of Chinese, there were two girls who had taken Chinese in high school. Compare: most of us at 17, my class asked for something as unexotic as Russian, but were told that it was impossible for the science branch.

Having finished 12 years of school, I somehow learned Spanish mainly on my own. Several visits to Gran Canaria were of course helpful. I had the opportunity to take Spanish in school at 17, but preferred to concentrate on subjects that were more highly valued for entrance to the University of Technology.

Those who chose the "classical" branch took Latin (in addition to those I had) from 15 and Greek from 17. All those languages continued until graduating at 19.

On the age for learning thing: I've written elsewhere that I at 24 went from zero to acceptable fluency in Dutch in two months (semi-immersion).

I still try learning languages at 63. The process is slower, but should I get a really motivating reason apart from general curiosity and wishing to read more scripts, there are several languages in which I've more or less recently have acquired the basics and could be semifluent in a year or less.


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## !netko!

Venenum, are you sure about the rules in Croatia? As far as I know, most Croatians start learning a second foreign language in high school (even then, only if their programme demands it or offers it).

I'm fluent in English, which I started learning at the age of 8. But I never relied on obligatory education. If I had, my English would definitely be much poorer, considering some of the teachers I had. I attended language school for 8 years. 

My second foreign language is Espanol (wher's the tilde on the keyboard when you need it???!). I'm nowhere near fluent, but I understand just about everything. And I'm reviving my studies of the language and aiming for fluency.

Third foreign language Italian. For now, fluency is far far away, but I understand a lot and definitely wouldn't get lost in Italy...

I wish they'd remove Latin from the curriculum of Croatian Gymnasiums (2 yrs, ages 15 & 16). What a gigantic, completely fruitless waste of time and effort, IMHO!


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## john_riemann_soong

Depends on what "foreign language" is meant.

The United States is really a cultural exception, where most of the population is monolingual when the majority of the world is multilingual. 

And I wouldn't say Mandarin's tones are subtle - just hard to be consciously thinking about it and doing it correctly at the same time. I actually don't know much of it, I was taught it up to age 5 - then I went to the US and forgot it - when I went back to Singapore I relearnt some of it. It was supposed to be my original second language, but now French has replaced that. 

We have an English creolish dialect called "Singlish" - it's quite interesting, since many of the grammatical the particles have a fixed tone describing attitude. 

I never even thought about the tones - I never even knew there were tones - until I read about it; I've been duplicating the tones perfectly. I don't even know which tone is rising, falling, high, low or whatever ... a lot of it is based on Chinese dialects, which have 6 or more tones. (Mandarin has lost a lot of features of the Classical Chinese that was spoken before the Qing Dynasty.) I just know how to articulate the tones, and their distinctions, and which tone is used for which particle (it's not applied to most of the words, just grammatical particles). You don't even think about the tones, the attitude is intuitive. 

I have a part-British, part-Singaporean, part-Singlish and part-French accent (thanks to my love of the trilled r). My mother says I've been sound like an Indian recently.


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## john_riemann_soong

The government in Singapore mandates a second language from primary school age (age 6) onwards .... some learn the second language at home from birth, some learn it from primary school, I don't know the exact statistics.

Some learn a Chinese dialect, and actually only pick up English and Mandarin at kindergarten or P1. Hence, they are trilingual, or 2.5 lingual if you don't count Chinese dialects as stand-alone languages. (Generally not mutually intelligible.) Hence, they would be invoking three different tongues at the age of 7. Four if you count those who take a "third language" (our government does not recognise the Chinese dialects as separate academic languages or as a permissible subject to take, which is a bigoted idea in my opinion).  "Third languages" are taken at the beginning of secondary school, at age 12-13, but they are optional compared a mandatory second language.


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## darkmatter

Some of you say that it is impossible to develop a native-like fluency level when you are older. How is it so impossible given enough time studying the language and living in the country where it is spoken? Or is there a difference between fluent and native-like fluent? And if so, how?


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## don maico

Here in the UK languages are first taught during the teen years - too late in y view. They are not compulsory either


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## beclija

darkmatter said:


> Some of you say that it is impossible to develop a native-like fluency level when you are older. How is it so impossible given enough time studying the language and living in the country where it is spoken? Or is there a difference between fluent and native-like fluent? And if so, how?


I think it is quite possible though difficult to develop fluency of any degree in terms of grammer, choice of words, subtlety, ability to handle and understand jokes or irony etc. I don't think it's possible to ever get totally rid of a foreign accent, though the accent might not be recognized as foreign immediately, I guess it's possible, though maybe rare, to develop a native-like pronounciation to the point where people from city A think you are from city B and vice versa, but impossible after a certain age to make people from city A believe that you grew up there too.


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## venenum

darkmatter said:


> Some of you say that it is impossible to develop a native-like fluency level when you are older. How is it so impossible given enough time studying the language and living in the country where it is spoken? Or is there a difference between fluent and native-like fluent? And if so, how?


 
OK, I'll show off a bit more.  
This is the thing (it's scientificly proven, so that you know): After a certain age, usually in early teens, your vocal organs (mouth, tongue, throut etc.) lose some flexibility, and at the same time the patterns of pronunciation of your mother tongue sounds are set as permanent, your vocal organs "memorize" them, and cannot addapt to patterns needed to pronunce foreign sounds. 

Also, you can't hear the specific sounds of another language - I mean, you hear them all right, but you don't comprehend it as a sound of another language, but "translate" it to your mother tongue equivalent sound. And what you can't hear, you can't immitate. 

Nevertheless, it is possible to acquire a native-like pronunciation as an adult, but this is very rare, since it takes a lot of practice, phonetic exercises with the specific goal of acqiring the pronunciation, and very few people are keen on undergoing such trouble, especially when others can understand them even without the perfect pronunciation.

Poison


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## avalon2004

This is the situation in the UK, as I see it..

In the "old days" (ie before some warped decision making a few years ago) all students were required to study at least one language, sometimes two, throughout their time in secondary education.
Now, however, it is no longer compulsory to study any foreign language to GCSE level, which has resulted in a massive drop in the number of students doing an additional language. There are apparently some plans to introduce Spanish and French into primary school lessons (so at the age of around 8 onwards) but I don't envisage this being met with much success. At present, most students will study one language for the first three years of secondary education but may choose to drop it (and usually do) when it comes to GCSE. 
The whole problem lies in the fact that:
A) the students aren't even being taught English properly- no one is aware of "grammar" until they reach A Level standard!
B) in my experience, languages aren't taught in the most interesting of ways and language departments usually don't get a great deal of funding
C) GCSEs are too easy and thus a student could end up getting an A* but not being able to have a half-decent conversation with a native speaker
D) there isn't enough scope- other, more appropriate languages should be more widely taught in addition to French, Spanish and German such as Urdu, Arabic and Hindi.

So in response to the question- foreign languages are 'taught' from the age of 11 onwards at present.


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## Etcetera

In Russia, children usually start to learn English or other foreign language (French or German, as a rule) at school. Some parents, who may afford sending their child to a private school or a private teacher, prefer their children to start learning a foreign language at the age of 7-8. However, some kids are sent to learn a language at the age of 4 and even 3,5 - but it's still rather unusual for our country. 
I myself started to learn English at the age of ten (so I may say that I'm learning English for half of my life ). No wonder I know it much better than Finnish or Polish (I've been learning Finnish for two years now, Polish for a year and a half).


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## Blackleaf

On Continental Europe, I think foreign languages are taught from the age of 5.  In Britain, they are taught from the age of 11.


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## beclija

No. I think the only places in Continental Europe where foreign languages are taught in first grade on a wide basis are minority-language areas, and it's the primary national language that is taught that early. Even so, it's six rather than five because school starts later than in Britain. More realistic would be 8 or 9 on an optional basis and from 11 on obligatorily (that is the situation in my country, there are some minor variations from country to country, but the large picture stays the same).


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## john_riemann_soong

> This is the thing (it's scientificly proven, so that you know): After a certain age, usually in early teens, your vocal organs (mouth, tongue, throut etc.) lose some flexibility, and at the same time the patterns of pronunciation of your mother tongue sounds are set as permanent, your vocal organs "memorize" them, and cannot addapt to patterns needed to pronunce foreign sounds.



Evidence? I don't think this is true. Noam Chomsky's theory of "language modules" is much more accepted - it's mostly psychological, nothing to do with physiology. 

After all, when we teach a child several languages from birth - as many do - we do not need to say "oh, un is French, yi is Mandarin, one is English"; we just need to know "un is the same as one, yi is the same as one, etc." - they intuitively know they are separate languages, possibly because of the different "attitude" inherent to the words of each language. Thus, it will be very unlikely to hear a child say, "I am _san_ years old" though you never had to emphasise linguistic distinction. 

The thing is, as a child we can intuit the rules of language - get a 'feel' for it, much better - it's our brains that get moulded and form the automatic rules, not our mouths. Some of us playful children in fact - when we "create" our own languages - we would have likely articulated phonemes that we never learnt before, in our determination for creativity. (Case in point, I remember an episode in the carteen show _Doug_ where one of the characters made up a planet's name involving a click in it - but these clicks are actually found in many Southern African languages.) 

Clicks in fact - are probably one of the most foreign sounds you will ever hear - but we can do them pretty well with learning. Didn't you as children ever do those clicks at the back of your mouth to make a sort of music?


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## beclija

It isn't contradictory with a modular theory of language. Phonetics is a very special field and might well turn out not to have much to do with the rest of language, including phonology, and a "foreign accent" in an otherwhise fluent is one of the most clearly phonetic phenomena known. And there is a lot of evidence to show that children loose the ability to contrast sounds that are non-contrastive in their native language very soon (while they are, so to say, born with ability to attribute linguistic significance to the entire range of possible human phonemes).


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## john_riemann_soong

I never had a problem with accents though - my parents complain I'm picking up accents to the extent that I've been "sounding like an Indian lately" - and for me it's not even conscious, which  is distinctive from the environment I live in. 

Perhaps if one is exposed to highly contrasting languages (ie. Chinese, Malay, French and English) then perhaps flexibility is less of an issue. I find I can "code-switch" between accents (if you can apply code-switching to accents) depending on the situation. 

ie. when talking to childhood friends, I can assume a Singaporean accent, when articulating Chinese (which I don't actually know that well), I just remember my friends' voices and it comes out without a hitch, while an American accent used to be my usual register for regular purposes, but I don't know whether it has changed from surrouding influences. To me, articulating  phonetics isn't an issue - in fact it's listening comprehension in French which is currently my biggest thorn in the side. Articulating it isn't a problem.


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## Hockey13

I am essentially bilingual. I learned German at the same time I learned English because my mother is an immigrant to the United States. She speaks _as good or even better _than most natives, and I don't say that just because she's my mother. She learned an American accent by being a babysitter to American military families when she was growing up. She knows 99.99999% of normal idiomatic expressions in AE despite only moving here when she was about 27. A lot of that, however, has to do with her learning of the language through _my_ learning of the language as a child.

Anyway, as I said, I know English fluently and German relatively fluently. I don't have the largest vocabulary in the world, but I understand structures, can watch German television with few problems, and I have an intuitive knowledge for the language, which is very, very difficult to pick up in non-native language. I'm learning Italian, and while I understand many things about it, it's verrrrry hard to automatically equate two words or two sentences.

Quando ritorniamo a casa, mangero' molto.

Does not immediately register as:

When we return home, we will eat a lot.

But this does:

Nachdem wir zu Hause kommen, werden wir viel essen.

Note: my German isn't perfect because I only spent summers in Germany ending when I was about 13.


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## Gvcc1girl

I studied French for 5 years and German for 2 years in high school and went on to study Russian as a career. 

I've read many studies on language learning capabilities over the years.  From my own experience, my French was the most easily acquired... and the one I began at the youngest age.  Russian was my hardest (and still is an ongoing battle) to master... and I began that journey as an adult.  Had I studied it in school in my youth, I'm convinced it would not have been as hard-fought a battle as it's been.  The simple foreign language vocabulary-assimilation rate of a child under the age of 12 is 4000 words a year-- without accent.  Learn a language over the age of 12 and you are likely (though not in every case, but most often) to have an accent and lower vocabulary-assimilation rate... a rate which decreases with age.

In virtually all the countries I visited, locals told me that their students are required to study foreign languages in school (not necessarily English as the second language).  Almost everyone I encountered overseas spoke 2 languages; the only exception was the very elderly.  

I lived overseas for about 10 years and travelled extensively in the neighboring countries surrounding those in which I lived.  I have to say that traveling abroad, while the most enjoyable experiences of my life, also left me with the sinking feeling that Americans still place little value on foreign language curriculum in their education system-- a fact that became evident to me in country after country I visited.  I watched time after time as I endeavored to speak in the language of the places that I visited that American tourists (who I desperately tried to avoid) assumed everyone else in the world must understand English-- a very pompous and sickening assumption-- as they first spoke English to locals and then got confused and disgusted looks on their faces as the locals explained in their own language that they did not speak English.  In every country I visited, I encountered locals who expected that I would not have any knowledge of their language-- frustrating, yet easily solved by the phrase "I understand and speak xxx language."  I love foreign languages mostly because the thought of understanding, communicating in, and being understood in a non-native lannguage is so energizing to me (and, I must admit, rather ego-boosting when I end up translating for American tourists abroad).  

I just wish the Americans would catch on to the idea of foreign language study-- for the sake of Americans and the rest of the world alike!


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## Abu Bishr

The difficulty in learning a second language after puberty has to do with what they call the "Critical Period Hypothesis" (CPH), i.e. exists a critical period within which to learn a language, after which it becomes really dificult for post pubescents to learn a foreign language, and different people will achieve variable degrees of proficiency. Proponents of the CPH are by no means in agreement as to what accounts for the difficulty and variation amongst adult second language learners. Some maintain that the language acquisition device (LAD) available before puberty is no more available after (due to maturation), while others maintain that the LAD is still available but is now competing with other cognitive devices and apparatus, like the computational device used to do calculations, solve problems amongst other things. This accounts also for adults adopting a more inquiring approach to learning a foreign language compared to children, which seems to be borne out by these forums, based on the numerous questions we (consciously) ask concerning the foreign language that we are learning. Children don't ask questions they just go about learning languages without being overtly conscious about if at all.

Here is a link for those who want to know more about the CPH.


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## dtcarney

I began learning spanish when I was 15 in highschool.  I started to study spanish a year later than my other classmates due to scheduling problems.  Although I had a great spanish teacher, the focus on foreign language instruction was a joke.  There was a choice between having a new class: German (which I wanted to take along with spanish)  and a class called "Fun with horses."  Guess which one my highschool decided to go with.  Apparently "fun with horses" is more interesting than german.

  When I went to the university I had a very good understanding of spanish and I tested into higher courses of spanish than my classmates, who had a year more of spanish than I did.  If I had began studying spanish when I was younger, ( or rather any other language)  God knows what I would know now.  

All I have to say is that everyone should be taught their native tounge and at least,  (at least)  another language.  Children should learn another language as soon as possible.


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## macta123

In India, if foreign language is taught in schools it is generally from the 5th standard onwards in some schools and 7th onwards in others.

 Otherwise, there are language institutes which offer courses in Foreign language for people of all age groups.


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## panjabigator

When do they start teaching Hindi in India?  How are things in Kerela with this?

I have asked my father when he first considered himself bilingual in Hindi and Panjabi and he replied "since day one."  He just picked it up from his environment.

Did you grow up in Delhi?  Is Hindi introduced concurrently with English?


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