# Killing is stupid



## limelinedavenue

Hi everybody! This is the first time that I came here. I'm a student doing linguistic studies and I just come across some descriptions about tagalog and have a question to ask you guys

Apparently, you have a particle 'ang' to substantivize different grammatical categories, for exemple:

maganda ang dalaga.  The woman is beautiful.

sundalo ang p-um-atay. The person that killed is a soldier.

I want to know which fonction does this 'ang' fulfill and could you deduce some meaning from this particle? (Things like 'the person who') 

And I want to know how do you translate 'Killing is stupid' in tagalog? This question is the most important one because it will determine the direction of my study. I'm wondering if it is something like:

(Stupid in tagalog) si  (kill in tagalog), similar to 'stupid si Pedro'

Tks! My english is not good, I hope you can understand my question!


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## DotterKat

_*Ang *_is a focus marker in Tagalog. It establishes the  emphasis of the sentence. In your examples, which you translated quite  well by the way:

Maganda ang dalaga. (*The woman* is beautiful.) _*Ang *_being  in front of dalaga establishes the subject (noun) as the focus or most  prominent part of the sentence. To demonstrate the reverse, if you want  the focus of the sentence to be the  predicate (_maganda / is beautiful_) then you can say:
*Ang kagandahan* ng dalaga ay kaaya-aya / kaakit-akit. (*The beauty* of the woman is pleasing / attractive.)

Sundalo ang pumatay. (The person that killed is a soldier OR even more appropriately, _The killing was done by a soldier._) _*Ang*_  being in front of pumatay establishes the action (verb) as the focus of  the sentence. If you want the actor rather than the action to be the  focus, then you could say:
*Ang mamatay-tao* ay sudalo. (*The killer* is a soldier.)

Killing is stupid. ---- Here, the action (killing) is obviously the most  prominent part of the sentence. Thus an appropriate Tagalog translation  that preserves this focus would be:

*Ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao* ay kahangal-hangal. (Literally: *The killing / murder of a person* is foolish / stupid.)

If you want the reverse and wish the focus to be the predicate (_"is stupid")_ then you could say:

*Ang mahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. OR *Ang pinakamahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. (Literally: *A stupid act / The stupid act / The most stupid act* is to kill a person.)


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## limelinedavenue

DotterKat said:


> _*Ang *_is a focus marker in Tagalog. It establishes the  emphasis of the sentence. In your examples, which you translated quite  well by the way:
> 
> Maganda ang dalaga. (*The woman* is beautiful.) _*Ang *_being  in front of dalaga establishes the subject (noun) as the focus or most  prominent part of the sentence. To demonstrate the reverse, if you want  the focus of the sentence to be the  predicate (_maganda / is beautiful_) then you can say:
> *Ang kagandahan* ng dalaga ay kaaya-aya / kaakit-akit. (*The beauty* of the woman is pleasing / attractive.)
> 
> Sundalo ang pumatay. (aThe person that killed is a soldier OR even more appropriately, _The killing was done by a soldier._) _*Ang*_  being in front of pumatay establishes the action (verb) as the focus of  the sentence. If you want the ctor rather than the action to be the  focus, then you could say:
> *Ang mamatay-tao* ay sudalo. (*The killer* is a soldier.)
> 
> Killing is stupid. ---- Here, the action (killing) is obviously the most  prominent part of the sentence. Thus an appropriate Tagalog translation  that preserves this focus would be:
> 
> *Ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao* ay kahangal-hangal. (Literally: *The killing / murder of a person* is foolish / stupid.)
> 
> If you want the reverse and wish the focus to be the predicate (_"is stupid")_ then you could say:
> 
> *Ang mahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. OR *Ang pinakamahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. (Literally: *A stupid act / The stupid act / The most stupid act* is to kill a person.)



Thank you very much Dotterkat! I have some complementary questions to ask you:

Firstly,
How is the predicate marked in the phrase? Is it the part that isn't marked by 'ang' and thus the order is no longer important? Concretely, is "Maganda ang dalaga" equal to "ang dalaga Maganda"? I read from a book that the predicate is marked by the position(first place), but I see from your exemple that all your subject is apparently placed on the initial place of the phrase.

Secondly,
How do you translate literally phrases with two angs, like:

ang maganda ang dalaga
ang pumatay ang nagnakaw

I have translated as: The woman is a beauty. / The action of stealing equals the action of killing. I have no idea if it's loyal to the original structure...

Thank you very much! You just give me the courage and the interest to study tagalog!


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## limelinedavenue

DotterKat said:


> _*Ang *_is a focus marker in Tagalog. It establishes the  emphasis of the sentence. In your examples, which you translated quite  well by the way:
> 
> Maganda ang dalaga. (*The woman* is beautiful.) _*Ang *_being  in front of dalaga establishes the subject (noun) as the focus or most  prominent part of the sentence. To demonstrate the reverse, if you want  the focus of the sentence to be the  predicate (_maganda / is beautiful_) then you can say:
> *Ang kagandahan* ng dalaga ay kaaya-aya / kaakit-akit. (*The beauty* of the woman is pleasing / attractive.)
> 
> Sundalo ang pumatay. (The person that killed is a soldier OR even more appropriately, _The killing was done by a soldier._) _*Ang*_  being in front of pumatay establishes the action (verb) as the focus of  the sentence. If you want the actor rather than the action to be the  focus, then you could say:
> *Ang mamatay-tao* ay sudalo. (*The killer* is a soldier.)
> 
> Killing is stupid. ---- Here, the action (killing) is obviously the most  prominent part of the sentence. Thus an appropriate Tagalog translation  that preserves this focus would be:
> 
> *Ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao* ay kahangal-hangal. (Literally: *The killing / murder of a person* is foolish / stupid.)
> 
> If you want the reverse and wish the focus to be the predicate (_"is stupid")_ then you could say:
> 
> *Ang mahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. OR *Ang pinakamahangal na gawain* ay ang (pamamatay / pamamaslang) ng tao. (Literally: *A stupid act / The stupid act / The most stupid act* is to kill a person.)



And also, the killing of a person and to kill are different. The second tends to be more abstract and designate purely the notion of the verb 'kill', like to be or not to be, it's a question. I want to know how to say "to kill is stupid", I don't know if this exists in english, but in french we have 'tuer est une action honteuse'.  which is translated word by word by 'kill is an action dishonorable'.  Could I just say 'to kill is stupide' without adding the subject 'a person'?

Sorry for the possible confusions, I think I need to learn more more tagalog before asking questions. But there are just so few Filipinos in France!


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## DotterKat

Recall that of the different ways that a sentence can be diagrammed, they can be divided into subject and predicate. The subject is what is being talked about and the predicate is what is being said about the subject. So it is not so much the _ang _marker that should clue you in to what the subject is, as _ang _will not always be there. Just ask yourself, who or what is being discussed in this sentence? The answer will be the subject. Whatever word or phrase modifies that subject is the predicate.

Yes, _Maganda ang dalaga _is equivalent to _Ang dalaga *ay *maganda.

_This is the second time in so many days that I have encountered this error:

ang maganda ang dalaga
ang pumatay ang nagnakaw

Another member posted a similar error with _ang _and I am beginning to wonder if the source textbook is the same. The above sentences, as they are, are absolutely wrong. You can say:

Ang maganda ay ang dalaga. (The one who is beautiful is the woman.) OR simply Maganda ang dalaga. (The woman is beautiful.)
Ang pumatay ay ang magnanakaw. (The one who killed is the thief.) OR simply Pumatay ang magnanakaw. (The thief killed / committed murder.)

_To kill is stupid_ OR _Killing is stupid _as I have indicated in my first post translates as:

Ang pamamatay / pamamaslang ng tao ay kahangal-hangal.

You can omit _ng tao _(a person) in the proper context, that is, if the preceding text makes it clear that you are admonishing readers against the killing of people (be it murder, capital punishment, genocide, war, etc.) If that situation is clear, then this Tagalog sentence will likewise be acceptable:

Ang pamamatay / pamamaslang ay kahangal-hangal.

Otherwise, the sentence above can be interpreted to mean that the killing of anything is stupid --- let's say the speaker, by reason of religion or philosophical persuasion, is fundamentally opposed to the killing of any living thing (living in California and knowing some vegans, I am very familiar with the concept.)

Finally, unlike in English wherein the one-word _murderer _almost always means the killer of a person (I say _almost_ to give room for the figurative use of the word), in Tagalog, the proper word would be the compound noun mamatay-tao (literally, _person-killer._)

Bon courage, mon vieux!


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## limelinedavenue

DotterKat said:


> Recall that of the different ways that a sentence can be diagrammed, they can be divided into subject and predicate. The subject is what is being talked about and the predicate is what is being said about the subject. So it is not so much the _ang _marker that should clue you in to what the subject is, as _ang _will not always be there. Just ask yourself, who or what is being discussed in this sentence? The answer will be the subject. Whatever word or phrase modifies that subject is the predicate.
> 
> Yes, _Maganda ang dalaga _is equivalent to _Ang dalaga *ay *maganda.
> 
> _This is the second time in so many days that I have encountered this error:
> 
> ang maganda ang dalaga
> ang pumatay ang nagnakaw
> 
> Another member posted a similar error with _ang _and I am beginning to wonder if the source textbook is the same. The above sentences, as they are, are absolutely wrong. You can say:
> 
> Ang maganda ay ang dalaga. (The one who is beautiful is the woman.) OR simply Maganda ang dalaga. (The woman is beautiful.)
> Ang pumatay ay ang magnanakaw. (The one who killed is the thief.) OR simply Pumatay ang magnanakaw. (The thief killed / committed murder.)
> 
> _To kill is stupid_ OR _Killing is stupid _as I have indicated in my first post translates as:
> 
> Ang pamamatay / pamamaslang ng tao ay kahangal-hangal.
> 
> You can omit _ng tao _(a person) in the proper context, that is, if the preceding text makes it clear that you are admonishing readers against the killing of people (be it murder, capital punishment, genocide, war, etc.) If that situation is clear, then this Tagalog sentence will likewise be acceptable:
> 
> Ang pamamatay / pamamaslang ay kahangal-hangal.
> 
> Otherwise, the sentence above can be interpreted to mean that the killing of anything is stupid --- let's say the speaker, by reason of religion or philosophical persuasion, is fundamentally opposed to the killing of any living thing (living in California and knowing some vegans, I am very familiar with the concept.)
> 
> Finally, unlike in English wherein the one-word _murderer _almost always means the killer of a person (I say _almost_ to give room for the figurative use of the word), in Tagalog, the proper word would be the compound noun mamatay-tao (literally, _person-killer._)
> 
> Bon courage, mon vieux!



You just don't know how happy I am to see your remarks! And effectively I doubt seriously the book I'm using. I'll spend two or three more days to finish it and give a short report to resume his ideas and then I'll come back again to figure out the exact structure of tagalog! 

See you soon! 

A très bientôt!


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