# cane che si morde la coda



## gaiaam

Ciao!

Esiste un corrispettivo per quest'espressione (che si può intendere come un circolo vizioso, un qualcosa che non ha senso e che non porta a niente).
La frase:

Se l'azienda xxx [che produce bibite gassate] promuove quest'evento sportivo per promuovere uno stile di vita attivo e sano e poi durante l'evento regala ai partecipanti le sue lattine di xxx è un cane che si morde la coda.

Grazie
gaia


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## vmx79

In inglese esiste l'espressione letterale _A Dog Biting Its Tail_.
Magari può andar bene...


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## Paulfromitaly

It's like chasing one's tail.
Non sono convinto che "cane che si morde la coda" sia l'espressione corretta da usare in quel contesto.


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## SoCalMezzo

More common... a dog chasing its tail.


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## brian

Credo che "dog *chasing* its tail" sia più adatta come espressione.  Non penso di aver mai sentito usare "a dog biting its tail" come modo di dire...

Edit: sempre in ritardo... hanno ragione Paul e SoCalMezzo!


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## gaiaam

Grazie a tutti,

purtroppo devo fare una traduzione letterale, e anche se può sembrare non avere senso devo traurre quanto detto.

Gaia


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## TimLA

Come Paul, non capisco la logica della frase.

Direi:
...inconsistent.
...a contradiction.
...contradictory.
...incongruous.

Ora, non riesco a pensare a un detto simile.


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## gelettra

I am writing an essay on a book and I want to describe the following situation: the more people buy this book, the more people talk about it, the more people buy this book.... 

In Italian, I would use the expression "un gatto che si morde la coda". Is the English expression "a catch-22 situation" the correct translation of "un gatto che si morde la coda?". 

I'd prefer not to use "a vicious circle": maybe I'm wrong, but "vicious" seems too negative to me.


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## k_georgiadis

Perhaps: 

"A process that feeds on itself." 
"Sales that snowball as more people talk about the book."


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## TimLA

Hi,
"Catch-22" is more "caught in the middle".

There are a variety of ways to handle it.
...positive feedback cycle...
...(positive) feedback loop...
...exponential effects...
"vicious cycle" is most often negative, but occasionally might be used in this format.
A very modern way might be "viral".

But a complete sentence in Italian might be nice.

Edit: KG's "snowballs" is fantastic! Bravo!


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## gelettra

There isn't an Italian sentence! But, if I had to translate my own English sentence, it would be:

"Questo libro si presta del resto a una naturale autopromozione: più persone leggono il romanzo, più la critica ne parla, più la storia dell'autore diviene nota. Si tratta di un classico gatto che si morde la coda: più si parla dell'autore, infatti, maggiori ancora saranno i lettori del libro".

Thank you very much!


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## neuromatico

I think k's "snowball" is perfect. 
You could also describe it as "a snowball effect".


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## Alxmrphi

I would definitely go with 'snowballs'...
Tim, (to me) '*vicious cycle*' is always negative, I'd be very surprised to see it intended in a positive sentence, can you give me an example? (_Was there something that made you say 'most often' ?_) Using 'vicious' in a positive way would be completely oxymoronic in my opinion.


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## gelettra

Can I therefore write: "It is a typical snowball effect: ...." ? (Is the snowball effect typical?)

Thank you!


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## Alxmrphi

gelettra said:


> Can I therefore write: "It is a*/the* typical snowball effect: ...." ? (Is the snowball effect typical?)
> 
> Thank you!


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## TimLA

Alxmrphi said:


> I would definitely go with 'snowballs'...
> Tim, (to me) '*vicious cycle*' is always negative, I'd be very surprised to see it intended in a positive sentence, can you give me an example? (_Was there something that made you say_ *'most often'* _?_) Using 'vicious' in a positive way would be completely oxymoronic in my opinion.


 
Emphasis on "most often".

I meant that it might be used in an ironic/funny way.

Ahh yes, that vicious cycle often seen on Italian vactions of pranzo, vino, riposo, cena, vino, riposo...and the next day having to do it all over again!
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it!


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## novizio

Only if you leave the words in describing what is happening ("as more people buy the book more people talk about it resulting in a snowball effect"). If you only say "the book is experiencing a snowball effect", then many readers might not be sure what you mean.


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## Alxmrphi

novizio said:


> Only if you leave the words in describing what is happening ("as more people buy the book more people talk about it resulting in a snowball effect"). If you only say "the book is experiencing a snowball effect", then many readers might not be sure what you mean.



I half agree, I think..
"*The sales of the book are experiencing a snowball effect*" it's pretty clear. (the more who buy the more who want, so the more who buy again)


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## gelettra

But what if I don't write first something like "the sales of the book are experiencing..."?
There is of course a sentence before and another one after "the snowball effect". But, stylistically, I'd like the "snowball effect" to stand on its own. 

So, for example: 




> This book lends in fact itself to a natural self-promotion: as more people read the novel, the more critics talk about it, the more ____'s situation becomes famous. It is the typical snowball effect: the more people talk about _____, the more people will read ____.


 
Sorry about this, but I've never heard the snowball effect before!


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## novizio

Yes, one could use many words to describe the fact that sales are growing but simply saying that sales are "snowballing" means only that they are growing, it does not describe the notion of more people are buying the book and talking about it and in turn causing more people to go out, etc.). Sales can be snowballing for several reasons including the one being described. I guess it depends on how much one wants to make the more specific point about the "self-feeding cycle", as opposed to simply communicating that sales are growing strongly. No problem for me either way.


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## gelettra

Yes, what I'd like to stress is the cycle.

But I'm quite depressed now. _Gatto che si morde la coda_ is much nicer than _self-feeding cycle_. 

Thank you anyway!


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## TimLA

Ok, let's all put our heads together and come up with a solution that will snowball and and make you feel better!

Questo libro si presta del resto a una naturale autopromozione:
più persone leggono il romanzo,
più la critica ne parla,
più la storia dell'autore diviene nota.
Si tratta di un classico gatto che si morde la coda:
più si parla dell'autore, infatti, maggiori ancora saranno i lettori del libro".

The book lends itself to natural self-promotion:
the more people read the novel,
the more critics talk about it, the more the author's story is noticed.
This/there is a classic snowball effect:
There is classic snowballing:
It's a snowball effect:
It's viral:
Indeed, the more the author is talked about, the larger the number of readers.

Now others will add to this snowball!


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## gelettra

I can tell you, this kind attempt makes me already feel better!!!!


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## novizio

TimLA said:


> Ok, let's all put our heads together and come up with a solution that will snowball and and make you feel better!
> 
> Questo libro si presta del resto a una naturale autopromozione:
> più persone leggono il romanzo,
> più la critica ne parla,
> più la storia dell'autore diviene nota.
> Si tratta di un classico gatto che si morde la coda:
> più si parla dell'autore, infatti, maggiori ancora saranno i lettori del libro".
> 
> The book lends itself to natural self-promotion:
> the more people read the novel,
> the more critics talk about it, the more the author's story is noticed.
> This/there is a classic snowball effect:
> There is classic snowballing:
> It's a snowball effect:
> It's viral:
> Sales are really being impacted by this book's "buzz". (on this note, I am "a letto" (East Coaster)
> Indeed, the more the author is talked about, the larger the number of readers.
> 
> Now others will add to this snowball!


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## effeundici

Ma scusate, non era *un cane *che si morde la coda*?*


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## Paulfromitaly

effeundici said:


> Ma scusate, non era *un cane *che si morde la coda*?*


Esattamente.
Un gatto che si morde la coda è come "cadere dalla padella alla pentola a pressione"


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## Alxmrphi

> Ok, let's all put our heads together and come up with a solution that will snowball and and make you feel better


I'm not 100% sure, but did you mean that we put our heads together and find things that we all agree on?
If so....



> The book lends itself to natural self-promotion:
> the more people read the novel,
> the more critics talk about it, the more the author's story is noticed.
> This/there is a classic snowball effect:
> There is classic snowballing:
> It's a snowball effect:
> It's viral: (don't like it but can't say it's wrong)
> Sales are really being impacted by this book's "buzz*/hype*". (on this note, I am "a letto" (East Coaster)


We also say "buzz" over here, and also 'hype', hype is a better word in my opinion but it means the same thing as buzz  
Do people on the west side of America not say 'buzz' ?

I've just thought of something else....

"(The sales of) this book is(are) gaining momentum" - what do you think? (the more momentum, the harder it hits, and the more momentum it gets, the harder it hits again)


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## gelettra

I surveyed some Italian friends and asked them if in their opinion _gatti_ or _cani mordono _their _coda_... 
It was quite surprising, because most of them said that they both do it; some people never heard about _gatti che si mordono la coda;_ some others would never say _cane che si morde la coda_. I don't know what to think. In my family we say _gatto che si morde la coda_, and perhaps it's a mistake, it's jut that we are cat lovers 

By the way, I laughed a lot when I read Paul's comment on _cadere dalla padella alla pentola a pressione_. It has been my favourite joke today.


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## effeundici

Honestly I'be never seen a cat biting its tail; but I've seen many dogs doing that. And it's a very funny scene.


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## gelettra

I agree with you. Have you ever had a cat? All my cats did it too! Anyway, I'm not trying o say I'm right, I'm just justifying the "cat".


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## brian

Even in English, dogs are known for "_chasing_" (not "biting") their tails, not cats, even though both animals do it, in my experience.


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## DaProfessor

A mug's game is the correct translation


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## Teerex51

DaProfessor said:


> A mug's game is the correct translation


For which of the two OPs, Prof? #1 or #9?  Certainly not for the second one... 

And the first original post doesn't make a whole lot of sense—which is why the discussion died of natural causes almost 6 years ago.


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