# este está siendo



## lunalunera

Hola, ¿cómo traduciríais esta frase?
Esta está siendo mi mejor cumpleaños- This is my best birthday. (utilizando un presente simple)
thanks


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## Talant

Buenas,

No es mala traducción. Podrías tambier decir: "It's my best birthday" o "[So long] it's being my best birthday" En el segundo caso yo creo que sería necesario un complemento de tiempo, para resaltar que estás hablando en medio del festejo o del día de tu cumpleaños.

Ta luego


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## anthodocheio

?Existe _it is being_ en ingles, o no?


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## Honeypum

anthodocheio said:


> ?Existe _it is being_ en ingles, o no?


 
Sí!!


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## ameana7

creo que no existe, porque la forma presente de "be" es "is" , no?


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## lunalunera

pero, ¿estaría bien esa traducción de 'it´s being?


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## anthodocheio

Talant said:


> "[So long] it's being my best birthday" En el segundo caso yo creo que sería necesario un complemento de tiempo, para resaltar que estás hablando en medio del festejo o del día de tu cumpleaños.


 
Estabamos escribiendo al mismo tiempo. Estoy de acuerdo con Talant Lunita!


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## Ivy29

lunalunera said:


> Hola, ¿cómo traduciríais esta frase?
> Esta está siendo mi mejor cumpleaños- This is my best birthday. (utilizando un presente simple)
> thanks


 
*This one is being my nicest birthday.*
Ivy29


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## JackInMadrid

In this case we wouldn't use the continuous of "to be", it sounds strange

Using present simple:
This is my best birthday ever

Using present perfect:
This has been my best birthday ever (though probably said at the end)

Though the best translation (staying with the continuous form to emphasise we are saying this during the birthday celebration):
This is turning out to be my best birthday ever


Note: "is being" is grammatically correct, though not used in many cases except the passive. Here are some examples of its use:
"My son is being difficult today" -> a misbehaving son
"Is being a doctor harder than you expected?"
"New technologies are being developed" -> passive
"A peace deal in Somalia is being agreed" -> passive
"It is being updated as we speak" ->passive

Jack


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## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> In this case we wouldn't use the continuous of "to be", it sounds strange
> 
> 
> I would appreciate any explanation about why NOT using the progressive ' IS BEING' in this particular case.
> I did a Google search it came up with 60,000 . Here are some of the sentences:
> *legacy is being my* son
> His favorite *pastime is being my* "lap" dog
> *She is being my...*
> *Kozmo is being my *sweet boy
> *I think most important is being my* own boss
> *Quanta is being my* main program to edit
> My little boys' *main priority is being my* shadow
> What really *matters is being my* best
> *fran is being my* savior tonight
> Darling *Wifey is being my* guardian angel
> *God is being my* witness..the One I am serving
> Much more *rewarding is being my* three kids' dad
> Actually, *McDonalds is being my* downfall
> *Radek is being my* tour guide tomorrow
> One of the things I've *enjoyed is being my* own boss
> *Beasley is being my *typing buddy this morning
> - *50* de aproximadamente *60.100* de ** ‘is being my’ ( Google)*
> *Ivy29*


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## JackInMadrid

A good question!

I don't know. "this is being my best birthday" sounds strange. There are better ways to say it. But I can't tell you why, it's just not said.

The same goes for a couple of the examples. These sound bad:
Quanta is being my main program to edit html
Yes is being my answer

I think it might be an "art" rather than a grammar thing with this.
Can anybody else shed my light on the matter?

Whatever the case "is being" isn't a common thing to say. Which is why you only got 60,000 responses for "is being my"  
instead of:
 208,000,000 for "is my"
5,610,000 for "has been my"
 728,000 for "is turning out to be" 
 
Jack


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## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> A good question!
> 
> I don't know. "this is being my best birthday" sounds strange. There are better ways to say it. But I can't tell you why, it's just not said.
> 
> The same goes for a couple of the examples. These sound bad:
> Quanta is being my main program to edit html
> Yes is being my answer
> 
> I think it might be an "art" rather than a grammar thing with this.
> Can anybody else shed my light on the matter?
> 
> Whatever the case "is being" isn't a common thing to say. Which is why you only got 60,000 responses for "is being my"
> instead of:
> 208,000,000 for "is my"
> 5,610,000 for "has been my"
> 728,000 for "is turning out to be"
> 
> Jack


 
I want to re-write my sentence so it can be seen clearly:
MY SENTENCE : *This one is being my nicest birthday.*

I would like, if possible, you to pinpoint the flaws or the reasons *grammatically*, *sintactically* or *semantically* that enable you to say :

'It's JUST not said'

The present progressive with the VERB TO BE is not used extensively due to some grammatical reasons that limit its usage, but just to state it is not right for no reason I cannot accept your bare statement for such a specific question. I need some rationale to UNDERSTAND your ASSERTION about the present progressive with the verb TO BE. I am not a NATIVE English speaker but I wish to learn well the language of Shakespeare.
Thanks
Ivy29


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## erica218

I know I'm not of probably not much help but Jack is very correct.  I can't really think of any gramatical reasoning but I would like to try and explain the difference between your examples and the actual sentence you were trying to translate.  Anyway, for example in the sentence "His favorite *pastime is being my* "lap" dog" you would be saying his favorite pastime is (in which "is" is the verb) and then "being my lap-dog" is like the 2nd part of the sentence.  Try and think of "being my lap-dog" as one thing, almost as one noun, almost as if there were a colon between is and being (His favorite pastime is:being my lap-dog).  Now in your sentence about the birthday, you wouldn't use "is being" because you're not trying to say that "being my nicest birthday" is the thing.  Also on a little sidenote, I believe it's not proper to start the sentence off with "this one" because it'd not yet understood you are talking about your birthday so using "one" sounds awkward and confusing.  In any case, I hope I've helped you at least a little bit, and have not confused you more.  Good luck!


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## mgarey

I agree with Jack's very accurate translation below:

"This is turning out to be my best birthday ever"

Unfortunately for Ivy, I don't know how to explain what is wrong with the sentence, "*This one is being my nicest birthday.",*
other than the fact that native speakers would not utter it and as a native English-speaker, it is confusing to me and sounds unnatural. 

I do think it is grammatically sound and that the breakdown in communication occurs on a semantic level. The way it reads, it strikes me that "this one is being" implies some sort of volition on the part of the birthday.

Hopefully someone else has a more satisfactory answer.

Michelle


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## mgarey

Taking this a step further, these examples, that Ivy copied from the web, also strike me as strange, confusing and unnatural.
*
*"Actually, *McDonalds is being my* downfall"
*"Quanta is being my* main program to edit" 

If you read over the rest of the examples that she provided, each of them implies that a PERSON OR LIVING THING (that can exercise will or volition) is "being". In the confusing/unnatural examples, McDondalds, Quanta, and "This one" (referring to a birthday), do not have will and cannot exert volition.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think that this is key to the confusion rather than the grammatical structure.

Michelle


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## anthodocheio

erica218 said:


> Also on a little sidenote, I believe it's not proper to start the sentence off with "this one" because it'd not yet understood you are talking about your birthday so using "one" sounds awkward and confusing.


 
Could you tell us how this sentence should start?




JackInMadrid said:


> Note: "is being" is grammatically correct, though not used in many cases except the passive. Here are some examples of its use:
> "My son is being difficult today" -> a misbehaving son
> "Is being a doctor harder than you expected?"
> "New technologies are being developed" -> passive
> "A peace deal in Somalia is being agreed" -> passive
> "It is being updated as we speak" ->passive
> 
> Jack


 

Like the difference between;

You are stupid ...and
You are being stupid (right now).

The one is offensive and the other is not.


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## JackInMadrid

anthodocheio said:


> Like the difference between;
> 
> You are stupid ...and
> You are being stupid (right now).
> 
> The one is offensive and the other is not.



Well that depends. Forsure "you are stupid" is rude, it means you are a stupid person and always will be.
The second one is less rude as it is only saying, as you said, you're being stupid right now. But it can still be offensive! May be in spain its ok but us english speakers can be a little more sensitive 

Back to Ivy's problem I think we might have the answer then. When refering to people and animals we can use "is being" as it implies some "will or volition" as mgarey said.
So we cannot use "is being" when refering to things unless we are using the passive (in which case it is used a lot)


Ivy, I pray thy thirst is now quenched! To paraphrase our beloved Shakespear: Though this language be madness, yet there is a method in't

Jack


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## Ivy29

erica218 said:


> I know I'm not of probably not much help but Jack is very correct. I can't really think of any gramatical reasoning but I would like to try and explain the difference between your examples and the actual sentence you were trying to translate. Anyway, for example in the sentence "His favorite *pastime is being my* "lap" dog" you would be saying his favorite pastime is (in which "is" is the verb) and then "being my lap-dog" is like the 2nd part of the sentence. Try and think of "being my lap-dog" as one thing, almost as one noun, almost as if there were a colon between is and being (His favorite pastime is:being my lap-dog). Now in your sentence about the birthday, you wouldn't use "is being" because you're not trying to say that "being my nicest birthday" is the thing. Also on a little sidenote, I believe it's not proper to start the sentence off with "this one" because it'd not yet understood you are talking about your birthday so using "one" sounds awkward and confusing. In any case, I hope I've helped you at least a little bit, and have not confused you more. Good luck!


 
Sorry, ERICA, your explanation is a kind of 'JUGGLING' and is not clear but confusing. I am quite sure about the following information of the verb to be :
1- First the verb TO BE is a linking verb or copula verb, it just serves as a BRIDGE between the SUBJECT abd the NOMINAL PREDICATE, or attribute ( which is an adjective or a noun)
2- I am quite sure that the verb TO BE has present progressive ( besides being a STATIVE VERB and linking VERB, also I am quite clear about the NORMAL inflections in the different MOODS, aspects and verboids.

*PRESENT PROGRESSIVE -- AM/ARE/IS *
are being
am being
is being
*PAST PROGRESSIVE -- WAS/WERE *​
was being
were being

*FUTURE PROGRESSIVE -- SHALL /WILL BE *
shall be being
will be being​
3- I know also that many verbs ( stative verbs are not used with the progressive forms) based on the principle TO BE OR NOT TO BE.
I detest rudabaga, _but not_ I am detesting rudabaga.
I prefer cinnamon toast, _but not_ I am preferring cinnamon toast
I am hungry.BUT some verbs including the verb TO BE can be used in the progressive form to mean just a TRANSITORY situation.
I am being foolish ( temporary characteristic)
He is foolish. ( permanente characteristic)
BIRTHDAY is primarily a HUMAN characteristic. I know also that the pets in many countries are trearted and celebrate their 'BIRTHDAY' as humans.
The personal PRONOUN = ONE/ONES are used after this, that, these, those, which, another, each or after a superlative the easiest one. WE CANNOT leave ONE after THE or EVERY. I rang all the numbers, and every ONE was engaged. IF I AM IN A BIRTHDAY party I can utter =I am being so happy in this ONE. or this one is being the wildest party I ever ( ellipsis). this transitory =WILD= I hope is NOT for ever  here the verb to be is a linking present progressive for situations that are transitory.
4- Also I know what's a stative or dynamic adjective:
I am tall ( STATIVE), and FOOLISH ( DYNAMIC) can take progressive forms NOT 'tall'
NICEST is a DYNAMIC adjective, PARTY, I hope is also DYNAMIC, and of COURSE THE BIRTHDAY ( at least for me is ONE EVERY YEAR.).[/font]
SO : This one (I being in the party) is being my nicest birthday is a LINKING VERB CONSTRUCTION in its progressive TRANSITORY celebration of a BIRTHDAY.
I wish TO KNOW which rules are AGAINST this STRUCTURE ( so common celebration).
Ivy29


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## Ivy29

mhp said:


> He is being nice
> It is being nice
> 
> These are two different meaings of the word nice. A person can be friendly/nice, but an inanimate object, an event (birthday), or a concept can't generally be nice the transitory sense of the word.


 
Sorry MPH, BIRTHDAY is an INHERENTLY  characteristic of human beings. His natural subject upon the birthday celebration is attached with a DATE.

Ivy29


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## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> Well that depends. Forsure "you are stupid" is rude, it means you are a stupid person and always will be.
> The second one is less rude as it is only saying, as you said, you're being stupid right now. But it can still be offensive! May be in spain its ok but us english speakers can be a little more sensitive
> 
> Back to Ivy's problem I think we might have the answer then. When refering to people and animals we can use "is being" as it implies some "will or volition" as mgarey said.
> So we cannot use "is being" when refering to things unless we are using the passive (in which case it is used a lot)
> 
> 
> Ivy, I pray thy thirst is now quenched! To paraphrase our beloved Shakespear: Though this language be madness, yet there is a method in't
> 
> Jack


 
<<Back to Ivy's problem I think we might have the answer then. When refering to people and animals we can use "is being" as it implies some "will or volition" as mgarey said.
So we cannot use "is being" when refering to things unless we are using the passive (in which case it is used a lot)


Ivy, I pray thy thirst is now quenched! To paraphrase our beloved Shakespear: Though this language be madness, yet there is a method in't

Sorry, but a birthday celebration is an INHERENT characteristic of human beings. OR A PERSONIFICATION of the celebration.
*Beasley is being my buddy th*is morning[/font]
*Blackcircles.com **is being* migrated* to a new data centre*
whoever *is being nicest* to you
White House *is being nicest* to its friends. 
*God is being my witness..the One I am serving
*Ivy29


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## Patriccke

JackInMadrid said:


> Note: "is being" is grammatically correct, though not used in many cases except the passive. Here are some examples of its use:
> "My son is being difficult today" -> a misbehaving son
> "Is being a doctor harder than you expected?"
> "New technologies are being developed" -> passive
> "A peace deal in Somalia is being agreed" -> passive
> "It is being updated as we speak" ->passive





Ivy29 said:


> Blackcircles is being migrated to a new data centre


I'm wondering if you even tried to understand what people wrote?

Jack has already explained it (see his last exemple). This is the passive voice of a progressive verb.
It's not the site that is being "something", it means: we are migrating the site. Not applicable the birthday example.


Ivy29 said:


> whoever *is being nicest* to you


Same here. See Jack's first example. "Being" means "currently behaving in a certain way". Certainly not applicable to a birthday!

And the explanation of Erica about "what I enjoy most is being my own boss" (or a similar sentence, I don't remember) was perfectly right. "Is" is the verb, "being my own boss" its attribute. "Is" and "being" are completely independent. On the contrary "being my own boss" is a whole, like any other nominal group:
What I enjoy most is being my own boss - What I admire most is her patience
Being my own boss is what I enjoy most - Her patience is what I admire most

"Is" can even disappear:
What do you enjoy most? Being my own boss - What do you admire most? Her patience

Still not convinced? Try to say the sentence using "is" instead of "is being": what I enjoy most is my own boss. Nothing to do with our sentence (and the boss would appreciate to be treated as a thing ("what"))


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## heidita

JackInMadrid said:


> Note: "is being" is grammatically correct,
> Jack


 


Ivy29 said:


> but just to state it is not right for no reason I cannot accept your bare statement for such a specific question. Ivy29


 

Ivy, had you read what Jack said before posting? He never said it was not "right" he actually underlined it was correct. 

I think it is up to the natives to tell us whether something "is said" or not, while it may even be correct, the use often seems to be a different story.


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## heidita

Ivy29 said:


> For me the reasons given so far are not CONVINCING, the present progressive of the verb TO BE exists. No grammatically reason has been given so far, and it is NOT a _modest stilness and humility issue_. ??? _excuse me?_ I do not accept what is not logical in either language: Spanish or English.
> White House *is being nicest* to its friends.( this is not passive)
> He is being a good worker ( is not passive)
> he is being a[/S] foolish ( Is not passive) no article here
> 
> Ivy29




Especially the second sentence sounds rather weird to me. 
_He is being a good worker_ might be actually correct, as already underlined by Jack, but not_ said._


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## Becksylou

White House *is being nicest* to its friends.( this is not passive) - and makes no sense
He is being a good worker - he has decided to work productively (the implication being that it is a change from the norm)
he is being a foolish - "he is being foolish" (at the moment but he is not necessarily a foolish person)

Ivy29[/quote]

I can see where the confusion arises but don't you think it is a little arrogant to argue that native English speakers are incorrect when so many agree on this point?

The thing is that whether you agree with the logic behind the reasons that have been given or not, either you accept them or you will not sound like a proper English speaker. What you said can be understood, it is just not colloquial English. 

The rule with "to be" is "when in doubt use the simple present or simple past" unless you are talking about yourself or another person and how they are behaving at that time (you could also use it for an animal - you could say "my dog is being good today")

You can't use it for houses, cars, birthdays and things that are inanimate and whose state does not vary. 
The house is red (the house is always red therefore you cannot say "the house is being red")
Equally even if it is an inanimate object that appears to have a temporary state for example a good birthday or an exciting day for some reason we do not say "it is being" except in the passive voice - "the jug is being filled with water (by Bob)", or if "being" defines a state "the best thing about saturdays is being at home" in constructions where you would use "ser" or "estar" rather than "siendo" or "estando" in Spanish.

Hope this is clear.


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## Ivy29

Becksylou said:


> White House *is being nicest* to its friends.( this is not passive) - and makes no sense
> He is being a good worker - he has decided to work productively (the implication being that it is a change from the norm)
> he is being a foolish - "he is being foolish" (at the moment but he is not necessarily a foolish person)
> 
> Ivy29


 
I can see where the confusion arises but don't you think it is a little arrogant to argue that native English speakers are incorrect when so many agree on this point?

The thing is that whether you agree with the logic behind the reasons that have been given or not, either you accept them or you will not sound like a proper English speaker. What you said can be understood, it is just not colloquial English. 

The rule with "to be" is "when in doubt use the simple present or simple past" unless you are talking about yourself or another person and how they are behaving at that time (you could also use it for an animal - you could say "my dog is being good today")

You can't use it for houses, cars, birthdays and things that are inanimate and whose state does not vary. 
The house is red (the house is always red therefore you cannot say "the house is being red")
Equally even if it is an inanimate object that appears to have a temporary state for example a good birthday or an exciting day for some reason we do not say "it is being" except in the passive voice - "the jug is being filled with water (by Bob)", or if "being" defines a state "the best thing about saturdays is being at home" in constructions where you would use "ser" or "estar" rather than "siendo" or "estando" in Spanish.

Hope this is clear.[/quote]

I do not have doubts about STATIVE or DYNAMIC adjectives
I do understand and clearly know that TALL is tall, this is based on the principle to be or not to be. It is not an issue of arrogance it is a matter of reasons to know why??
The white house is being nice with its friends is wrong??

Ivy29


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## Ivy29

Becksylou said:


> White House *is being nicest* to its friends.( this is not passive) - and makes no sense
> He is being a good worker - he has decided to work productively (the implication being that it is a change from the norm)
> he is being a foolish - "he is being foolish" (at the moment but he is not necessarily a foolish person)
> 
> Ivy29


 
I can see where the confusion arises but don't you think it is a little arrogant to argue that native English speakers are incorrect when so many agree on this point?

The thing is that whether you agree with the logic behind the reasons that have been given or not, either you accept them or you will not sound like a proper English speaker. What you said can be understood, it is just not colloquial English. 

The rule with "to be" is "when in doubt use the simple present or simple past" unless you are talking about yourself or another person and how they are behaving at that time (you could also use it for an animal - you could say "my dog is being good today")

You can't use it for houses, cars, birthdays and things that are inanimate and whose state does not vary. 
The house is red (the house is always red therefore you cannot say "the house is being red")
Equally even if it is an inanimate object that appears to have a temporary state for example a good birthday or an exciting day for some reason we do not say "it is being" except in the passive voice - "the jug is being filled with water (by Bob)", or if "being" defines a state "the best thing about saturdays is being at home" in constructions where you would use "ser" or "estar" rather than "siendo" or "estando" in Spanish.
*Lo mejor de los sábados es estando en casa.*

Hope this is clear.[/quote]

<<*or if "being" defines a state "the best thing about saturdays is being at home"* in constructions where you would use "ser" or "estar" rather than "siendo" or "estando" in Spanish.>>>
*Sorry that sentence is not a 'state'*, if it were one you cannot use the *present progressive.*

*Ivy29*


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## heidita

Ivy29 said:


> *Lo mejor de los sábados es estando en casa.*
> 
> Hope this is clear.


 
Above all, Ivy, we would all appreciate if you closed the quotes so as to distinguish correctly these from your answers or questions. 

Are you implying that the above sentence in Spanish is correct and _said_?



> <<*or if "being" defines a state "the best thing about saturdays is being at home"* in constructions where you would use "ser" or "estar" rather than "siendo" or "estando" in Spanish.>>>
> *Sorry that sentence is not a 'state'*, if it were one you cannot
> couldn't use the *present progressive.*
> 
> *Ivy29*


 
Are you implying that the underlined sentence is not correct English?


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## quizasundia

Ivy29,

I have read all of these posts so far.  I am a native speaker of English.  I cannot offer you a grammatician's explanation of why your preferred translation:  "This one is being my nicest birthday..." is not something a native speaker would say.  I do not have the resources available to try to find a "rule".  If you like the way it sounds...say it.  I would understand what you meant, although it would sound odd.  You could also (in grammatically correct fashion according to your terms above) say "Being my nicest birthday, this one is."  Again it would never occur to a native speaker to say this.  Googling for grammar is probably not the most accurate way to find correct phrases in English.  There are billions of postings to the internet from non-native English speakers.  Just think...someone may have Googled your phrase "It is being my nicest birthday..." by now.  

I think the aforementioned variation:

This is turning out to be my nicest birthday. 

is the best choice.  Perhaps, 

This is going to be my nicest birthday.

could work.  

Now that I look at the second sentence there seems to be some implication (also mentioned above) that the birthday itself can't be judged until it is complete...and then it would no longer be in a progressive state.
Hmmmmmm.  I love the challenge.  IS there an explanation out there???


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## timpeac

I am also being a native speaker, and had thought for 30 years that "it is being my birthday" was being incorrect in English. However, Ivy's googlings have certainly convinced me of the error of my ways and from now it will be being Christmas everyday with my new-found ease of expression! After all, how can something be being correct about the grammar of a language if you can't be formulating a rule to describe it? That's just being nonsense.


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## JackInMadrid

Good point, please ignore everything below!! 

I think the answer has already been solved. It's a long post and maybe new people aren't reading the earlier messages carefully, no doubt amazed at the blindness of Ivy. 
But I will also try to refine the explanation. I apologise, this will be a long post as there are many things to clarify!

I said earlier that "is being" can be used in the passive. That was the easy point.

The harder point was this:

Why are the following good:
John is being very generous today
My sister is being very kind to me

And the following bad:
This is being my best birthday
My house is being red
 The conclusion (which I believe to be correct) was put forward by mgarey: the subject needs to have will or volition. It's an act volition. (i underline in the hope that Ivy may read it)

A birthday doesn't have will or volition. If we say that a birthday is good, we talking about the state of the birthday. It wasn't a decision of The Birthday to go well, as much as a house cannot decide to be red. Also it seems to me that "is being" (when not passive) is describing a behaviour. Look at my examples below.

My cat is being friendly today
My boss is being really patient with my problems
George is being an asshole today.

BUT I hear you say: What about "the best thing I like is being my own boss!" ??
Well, this is a very clever sentence that is trying to fool you!! "being" in this sentence is the gerund! haha

The best thing I like is + noun
The best thing I like is the weather
The best thing I like is cereal for breakfast
The best thing I like is playing tennis (playing is the gerund)

There are many other examples of the gerund of "to be" being used:
You know, being cool isn't easy
Being the president can be stressful
Being a stubborn idiot doesn't help you learn
Afghanistan, being a large mountaineous country, has many isolated regions

These are nouns and can be ignored in relation to the grammar point we are discussing.

Last point!
In terms of this grammar point, the rules above help describe what you CANNOT say, it doesn't give the speaker a 100% rule on what they CAN say.
Grammar has many exceptions! And this case is no different. If you follow the above rules you will still say things that don't sound normal! English nor Spanish is mathematics! Ivy: you cannot rely on grammar alone to learn, how many things can you say in Spanish that are grammatically correct but are not said by spanish speakers? A lot!

If anyone has more to add, may be the analysis is incorrect in parts or may be there is something extra, please say something.
BUT
If you are here to bully people, with a closed mind and a cold heart, please just relax and have a cup of tea instead.

Jack


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## timpeac

Looking at your examples there, is it not the case that if you can replace "to be" with "to behave (like)" then it can have the progressive form? I suppose that's another way of saying, like Jack did, that the subject has to be animate in order to deliberately act in a certain way.


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## mhp

My hat is off to you Jack. You are amazingly patient


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## natasha2000

JackInMadrid said:


> If anyone has more to add, may be the analysis is incorrect in parts or may be there is something extra, please say something.
> Jack


 
I have read the entire thread, and believe me, I bow to you for your patience, and secondly, for excellent explanation of this problem, FROM THE GRAMMATICAL POINT OF VIEW. Even if I had already known that, I think I wouldn't have known how to explain it. Now I have it perfectly clear and fitted in my little grammar boxes...

If someone still does not understand it, it's just that he does not want to understand, or he is just being silly.


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## JackInMadrid

mhp - tea can solve many things my friend 

thanks for the support 

Unfortunately, we have another question to answer. In our struggle for the truth there is one last fight....



timpeac said:


> Looking at your examples there, is it not the case that if you can replace "to be" with "to behave (like)" then it can have the progressive form? I suppose that's another way of saying, like Jack did, that the subject has to be animate in order to deliberately act in a certain way.



You've made me realise that "is being" isn't only used with behaviour. You have good reasoning when talking about behaviour.

So, for behaviour....
Using "behaving" with the adjective that "is using" uses, we change it to the adverb. But it doesn't always sound as good (uh oh... opened the hornets nest)

   My boss is being really patient with my problems
-> My boss is behaving really patiently with my problems

My sister is being kind to me
-> My sister is behaving kindly to me

But
When using "behaving like" with a noun, it sounds good (in the case below anyway)

George is being an asshole today.
-> George is behaving like an asshole today


But "is being" isn't always talking about behaviour
Tom is being a real help today
->Tom is behaving like a real help today (bad, bad, bad)
Tom is being the designated driver tonight
-> Tom is behaving like the designated driver tonight (bad, bad, bad)

So "is being" isn't just with behaviour, but commonly is.

uh oh...I think I may have started a new argument

Jack


----------



## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> mhp - tea can solve many things my friend
> 
> thanks for the support
> 
> Unfortunately, we have another question to answer. In our struggle for the truth there is one last fight....
> 
> 
> 
> You've made me realise that "is being" isn't only used with behaviour. You have good reasoning when talking about behaviour.
> 
> So, for behaviour....
> Using "behaving" with the adjective that "is using" uses, we change it to the adverb. But it doesn't always sound as good (uh oh... opened the hornets nest)
> 
> My boss is being really patient with my problems
> -> My boss is behaving really patiently with my problems
> 
> My sister is being kind to me
> -> My sister is behaving kindly to me
> 
> But
> When using "behaving like" with a noun, it sounds good (in the case below anyway)
> 
> George is being an asshole today.
> -> George is behaving like an asshole today
> 
> 
> But "is being" isn't always talking about behaviour
> Tom is being a real help today
> ->Tom is behaving like a real help today (bad, bad, bad)
> Tom is being the designated driver tonight
> -> Tom is behaving like the designated driver tonight (bad, bad, bad)
> 
> So "is being" isn't just with behaviour, but commonly is.
> 
> uh oh...I think I may have started a new argument
> 
> Jack


 
*You are in the right track, JACK*  !!!
The key is 'personification' marks that are only used in HUMAN BEINGS.
Foolish, nice, kind, lazy, careful, patient, silly, rude, polite, impolite. ( with 'is being' are TEMPORARY CHARACTERISTIC.
*The white house is being nice with its friends* ( THE WHITE HOUSE, is an ICON of the US GOVERNMENT (PEOPLE= president and its staff, congress, etc).
*Happiness is being my boss* ( happiness is a mark of HUMAN BEINGS)
*This one*= *This birthday is being my nicest one*.
Ivy29


----------



## JackInMadrid

Ivy: Please, if you can, provide a logical reasoning on how a birthday can be personified.

In order to help you with your task I have here the definition of "personify" that applies to our case:
_Personify: attribute human qualities to something_

Jack


----------



## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> Ivy: Please, if you can, provide a logical reasoning on how a birthday can be personified.
> 
> In order to help you with your task I have here the definition of "personify" that applies to our case:
> _Personify: attribute human qualities to something_
> 
> Jack


 
Very simple a birthday IMPLIES the PERSON who is the subject of the 
BIRTHDAY and the PEOPLE ( family, friends, party ( MADE UP OF PEOPLE).
Ivy29


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## Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo

According to my grammar book, _be_ -progressive form- is used to talk about actions and behaviour, but not usually to talk about feelings:

_You are being stupid. (= You are doing stupid thigs.)_
_Who is beign a silly baby, then? (= Who is behaving like...? ) _
_I was being very careful. (= I was doing something very carefully.)_

_I am happy just now. (= I'm being happy just now.)_
Note the difference between _He's beign sick (GB = He's vomiting) _vs. _He's sick (= He's ill.)

_I hope it helps to clarify the easy part of it. Since I am not an English native, I let you the rest...

Pedro.


----------



## JackInMadrid

Pedro: I agree, good point 

Ivy: The simple answer there is: you are very wrong.

I will tell you why...

Although some nouns can represent a group of people, 
for example
the Whitehouse = the President and his staff
the class = the students that comprise a class
Madrid = in the news, be it newspapers, internet, tv, sometimes refers to the government of a country by its capital

unfortunately for your argument, a birthday cannot represent any group of people. In the same way as "Monday" cannot represent anybody.
here is a little list of days for you
Monday
birthday
wedding anniversary
4th of July
Christmas Day

All of these cannot represent people. 
But I don't know, tell me how these sound to you (they all use adjectives from your list):
Monday is being really nice to John
This birthday is being really lazy
This wedding anniversary is being so kind
The 4th of July is being foolish today
Christmas Day is being impolite 

I am sure you will tell me how correct they are, but I assure you they are very wrong.

Jack


----------



## Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo

Ivy29 said:


> Very simple a birthday IMPLIES the PERSON who is the subject of the
> BIRTHDAY and the PEOPLE ( family, friends, party ( MADE UP OF PEOPLE).
> Ivy29


Perhaps, you cannot personify this kind of subjects when progressive form (BEING) is being used in an non-passive sentence.


----------



## Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo

JackInMadrid said:


> All of these cannot represent people.
> But I don't know, tell me how these sound to you (they all use adjectives from your list):
> Monday is being really nice to John
> This birthday is being really lazy
> This wedding anniversary is being so kind
> The 4th of July is being foolish today
> Christmas Day is being impolite


The problem is that it is a natural way of thinking in Spanish.
Este lunes está siendo muy agradable para Juan.
 Este cumpleaños está siendo muy perezoso.
Este aniversario de boda está siendo tan agradable.

And so on... In Spanish things can "be being (estar siendo)" + adj. if the adjectve can be logically applied to the noun...


----------



## natasha2000

But we all know that literal translation i.e. word for word translation is a NO-NO...... 

Or not all of us, after all?


----------



## heidita

> I agree, and I do understand the verb TO BE in its progressive forms. You do?????? The ISSUE is :
> *( This one)This birthday is being my nicest one*.
> Could you parse this sentence .
> Ivy29


 

I think of all your posts this is the most surprising one. I have bothered to count the natives *(8) *to tell you this sentence is not correct and gone through great pains to explain why not. And now you are asking a non -native?


----------



## Ivy29

heidita said:


> I think of all your posts this is the most surprising one. I have bothered to count the natives *(8) *to tell you this sentence is not correct and gone through great pains to explain why not. And now you are asking a non -native?


 

Do not get surprised, just stay in the issue. Could you explain me why this sentence is correct :
*The White House is being nice with its friends*. Or if you like PARSE this sentence.
Thanks
Ivy29


----------



## Ivy29

heidita said:


> Are you implying that this sentence is correct? And_ said_ in Spanish?
> 
> 
> 
> Ivy, we would above all appreciate if you copleted the quotes , in order to know which is your part and which is the actual quote.
> 
> Now, I am just guessing, but are you saying that "the best thing about Saturdays is being at home" is not correct English?


 
IF YOU READ carefully, I was correcting a forist that was stating that that sentence was a STATE SENTENCE, and  it is NOT if you use the 'be present progressive' then it is NOT STATIVE.
In Spanish is clear, and is  used here daily, it is clear as  a crystal.
Any doubts ??
Ivy29


----------



## timpeac

Ivy29 said:


> Do not get surprised, just stay in the issue. Could you explain me why this sentence is correct :
> *The White House is being nice with its friends*. Or if you like PARSE this sentence.
> Thanks
> Ivy29


Yes - "the white house" is being use anthropomorphically to mean "the government of the country". Now, since the government of the country is made up of people it can be viewed, in this strict sense, as being personified and thus allowing the continuous present with verbs.

To put it another way, you could replace "the white house" with "George Bush and his followers".


----------



## Ivy29

timpeac said:


> Yes - "the white house" is being use anthropomorphically to mean "the government of the country". Now, since the government of the country is made up of people it can be viewed, in this strict sense, as being personified and thus allowing the continuous present with verbs.
> 
> To put it another way, you could replace "the white house" with "George Bush and his followers".


 
And when a standard birthday is NOT for PEOPLE ???

Ivy29


----------



## Reina140

I just wanted to add the voice of another native agreeing that "This is being my best birthday" is completely incorrect.  To be honest, it sounds like ebonics, but I don't think it could even qualify as that.


----------



## heidita

Ivy29 said:


> Do not get surprised, just stay on the issue. Could you explain me why this sentence is correct :
> *The White House is being nice with its friends*. Or if you like PARSE this sentence.
> Thanks
> Ivy29


 
I am more and more surprised and this shows that you do not read the answers carefully or you do not understand enough English, which is another reasonable possibility.

It has already been explained by JackinMadrid, very clearly I might add:



> some nouns can represent a group of people,
> for example
> the Whitehouse = the President and his staff


----------



## natasha2000

Ivy29 said:


> And when a standard birthday is NOT for PEOPLE ???
> 
> Ivy29


 
As a matter of fact, no.
Birthday is EVENT, not people, nor group of people. an it cannot be personificated.

A group of people can be personificated.

_My class came to my party. My class is being very nice to me.They brought me a big bunch of flowers._
I would dare to translate this is being as _Se han comportado muy bien conmigo._

But you cannot say, My party is being very nice to me. It is stupid and makes no sense at all. Mi fiesta se ha comportado bien conmigo?????


----------



## timpeac

Ivy29 said:


> And when a standard birthday is NOT for PEOPLE ???
> 
> Ivy29


Ivy, do you read people's replies to you????

The point is that it doesn't _stand for_ people. It doesn't stand as a symbol to _represent _a person or people.


----------



## Ivy29

heidita said:


> I am more and more surprised and this shows that you do not read the answers carefully or you do not understand enough English, which is another reasonable possibility.
> 
> It has already been explained by JackinMadrid, very clearly I might add:


And since when BIRTHDAY does not represent a *person* having his birthday ??? Or the birthday is flying around???

Ivy29


----------



## Reina140

Ivy29 said:


> And since when BIRTHDAY does not represent a *person* having his birthday ??? Or the birthday is flying around???
> 
> Ivy29


 
How you can type that and think that it is right?

A BIRTHDAY does *NOT* stand for a person.

A person also has bowel movements . . . But you don't see people trying to personify that . . . Wow  . . . This bowel movement is being good to me.


----------



## heidita

Ivy29 said:


> IF YOU READ carefully, I was correcting a forero who was stating that that sentence was a STATE SENTENCE, and it is NOT if you use the 'be present progressive' then it is NOT STATIVE.
> In Spanish it is clear, and it is used here daily, it is clear as a crystal.
> Any doubts ??
> Ivy29


 
No doubts at all, thank you, Ivy, for your kind explanation.  

.


----------



## Ivy29

JackInMadrid said:


> Pedro: I agree, good point
> 
> Ivy: The simple answer there is: you are very wrong.
> 
> I will tell you why...
> 
> Although some nouns can represent a group of people,
> for example
> the Whitehouse = the President and his staff
> the class = the students that comprise a class
> Madrid = in the news, be it newspapers, internet, tv, sometimes refers to the government of a country by its capital
> 
> unfortunately for your argument, a birthday cannot represent any group of people. In the same way as "Monday" cannot represent anybody.
> here is a little list of days for you
> Monday ( of course) It is a day's week) but *we can say this MONDAY is being sad ( prosopopoeia)*.
> birthday* ( PERSONIFICATION ) of the brithday ( SINCE it has always a PERSON SUBJECT)*
> *The wedding anniversary is being cheerful* ( CORRECT) *Personification*
> 4th of July
> Christmas Day ( IMPOLITE is an issue of manners) *could be* correct using *PROSOPOPOEIA*)
> 
> All of these cannot represent people.
> But I don't know, tell me how these sound to you (they all use adjectives from your list):
> Monday is being really nice to John
> This birthday is being really lazy
> This wedding anniversary is being so kind
> The 4th of July is being foolish today
> Christmas Day is being impolite
> 
> I am sure you will tell me how correct they are, but I assure you they are very wrong. *BUT NOT so far this birthday is being my nicest one.*
> 
> Jack


*Comparing is a very tricky action because you must deal it with* *lo**gical*, one thing is to state *the birthday is being lazy* and another quite different *the birthday is being BORING*. ( I hope the people into the party is causing the 'BORING' I hope also if *SHAKIRA* were in the celebration party singing HIPS DO NOT LIE everyone would be HAPPY.!!!!!
OF COURSE if you use properly most of the sentences above would be CORRECT using *FIGURES OF SPEECH* : *PROSOPOPOEIA*, *PERSONIFICATION, metonymy.*
*prosopopoeia* the rhetorical introduction of a pretended speaker or the *personification* of an *abstract thing. *[_L* f. *Gk prosopopoiia* f. *prosopon person + poieo make_[
*BIRTHDAY ALWAYS IMPLIES A SUBJECT= person.*

*Ivy29*


----------



## natasha2000

Ivy29 said:


> *BIRTHDAY ALWAYS IMPLIES A SUBJECT= person.*
> 
> *Ivy29*


Excuse me?
Birthday can be a subject, but not a person.
It is because it is a noun.
Subject not necessarily must be a person.
Birthday is not a person.


----------



## Iliana

Ivy:

He leído con atención casi todas las entradas de este tema. No deseo agregar mas verborrea gramatical, pues los participantes han hecho muchas y muy variadas aportaciones. Sin embargo, me extraña que seas tan inflexible y no aceptes las aportaciones de los demás solo porque no te satisfacen.

Yo soy lingüista, y he pasado años de mi vida estudiando no sólo la gramática del español, francés e ingles, sino que también he estudiado otras disciplinas como la semántica, la pragmática, la morfosintaxis y muchas otras más.

La gramática proviene de los hablantes, no al revés. Los gramáticos han elaborado reglas, las cuales son subjetivas, acerca del uso que los hablantes les dan a la lengua. Las lenguas son organismos “vivos” pues están en constante cambio y evolución.

Ademas, el hecho de que una oración sea gramaticalmente correcta, eso no indica que tenga sentido, vaya, ni que sea adecuada socialmente. 

Retomando el ejemplo, simplemente no puedes decir “It is being my best birthday” porque “it” no es una persona, es un concepto. 

Los conceptos no se comportan de manera diferente un dia si y el otro no, por lo cual es inadmissible decir que este cumpleaños “está siendo” el mejor. 

Espero que esta explicación te satisfaga. No olvides que para aprender una lengua, cualquiera que sea, hay que ser flexible y darse cuenta de que las "reglas" no siempre son adecuadas. Un saludo.


----------



## Ivy29

natasha2000 said:


> Excuse me?
> Birthday can be a subject, but not a person.
> It is because it is a noun.
> Subject not necessarily must be a person.
> Birthday is not a person.


 
BIRTHDAY is a celebration of a PERSON always. NO SUBJECT NO BIRTHDAY ( for a specific date). At least at this end we do not give a present to THE WORD BIRTHDAY but a person.

Ivy29


----------



## natasha2000

Ivy29 said:


> BIRTHDAY is a celebration of a PERSON always. NO SUBJECT NO BIRTHDAY ( for a specific date). At least at this end we do not give a present to THE WORD BIRTHDAY but a person.
> 
> Ivy29


 
Well, I celebrate the birthday of my dog Bubba...
And I do give her a present. A nice yummy bone... 

As far as I know, she is still a dog, and not a person....


----------



## Iliana

Ivy29 said:


> BIRTHDAY is a celebration of a PERSON always. NO SUBJECT NO BIRTHDAY ( for a specific date). At least at this end we do not give a present to THE WORD BIRTHDAY but a person.
> 
> Ivy29


 
I was going to say something, but I guess it's useless. Obviously you can't separate two concepts. Birthday is an event, linked to a person but not the person itself.


----------



## Reina140

natasha2000 said:


> Well, I celebrate the birthday of my dog Bubba...
> And I do give her a present. A nice yummy bone...
> 
> As far as I know, she is still a dog, and not a person....


 
The dog is alive . . . she has a birthday . . . in order for her to be alive she has to have had a birthday . . . I don't understand what you're getting at . . . . you didn't personify her


----------



## heidita

subject, en lingüística significa sujeto, no sujeto como súbdito.

La palabra birthday es el sujeto de la frase y NO es persona. En efecto, es el cumpleaños DE una persona.


----------



## natasha2000

Reina140 said:


> The dog is alive . . . she has a birthday . . . in order for her to be alive she has to have had a birthday . . . I don't understand what you're getting at . . . . you didn't personify her


 
Reina, of course that I do not personify my dog.
I was just replying to Ivy's post where he says that birthday is always a person. Look:



> BIRTHDAY is a celebration of a PERSON always.


 
Well not always... 
My dog also celebrates her birthday.... 
And my dog is not a person. Yet.


----------



## Ivy29

Iliana said:


> Ivy:
> 
> He leído con atención casi todas las entradas de este tema. No deseo agregar mas verborrea gramatical, pues los participantes han hecho muchas y muy variadas aportaciones. Sin embargo, me extraña que seas tan inflexible y no aceptes las aportaciones de los demás solo porque no te satisfacen.
> 
> Yo soy lingüista, y he pasado años de mi vida estudiando no sólo la gramática del español, francés e ingles, sino que también he estudiado otras disciplinas como la semántica, la pragmática, la morfosintaxis y muchas otras más.
> 
> La gramática proviene de los hablantes, no al revés. Los gramáticos han elaborado reglas, las cuales son subjetivas, acerca del uso que los hablantes les dan a la lengua. Las lenguas son organismos “vivos” pues están en constante cambio y evolución.
> 
> Ademas, el hecho de que una oración sea gramaticalmente correcta, eso no indica que tenga sentido, vaya, ni que sea adecuada socialmente.
> 
> Retomando el ejemplo, simplemente no puedes decir “It is being my best birthday” porque “it” no es una persona, es un concepto.
> 
> Los conceptos no se comportan de manera diferente un dia si y el otro no, por lo cual es inadmissible decir que este cumpleaños “está siendo” el mejor.
> 
> Espero que esta explicación te satisfaga. No olvides que para aprender una lengua, cualquiera que sea, hay que ser flexible y darse cuenta de que las "reglas" no siempre son adecuadas. Un saludo.


 
Te agradezco tu información pero estamos en desacuerdo, el concepto de verbos copulativos los hace un grupo muy especial, pues son verbos de estado con algunas excepciones, Cuando actúan como copulares simplemente sirven de PUENTE entre el sujeto y el predicado nominal o atributivo del sujeto. Decir que una fiesta es buena o mala sea INCORRECTO no lo entendería ni lo aceptaría; además si yo estoy en este momento celebrando mi cumpleaños : *Puedo decir: este cumpleaños está siendo el mejor de mi vida. PUES ASÍ LO estoy viviendo en este instante para eso es la perífrasis estar + gerundio=SIENDO o presente progresivo del verbo estar, uso estar pues señala una acción transitoria y no permanente  que si implicaría el verbo SER. *
*En Inglés existe algo parecido con relaciópn a el verbo TO BE con el problema que para ellos es = SER-ESTAR no para nosotros. Los INGLESES y AMERICANOS necesitan usar  IS BEING para señalar lo transitorio : He is being foolish now, at this moment.*
*Si se puede decir La Casa Blanca está siendo blanda con sus amigos por ser ella un icono del gobierno de EE.UU, también se puede utilizar en aquellas cualidades o sustantivos que tienen como SUJETO una persona humana. NO HAY SUJETO > no hay cumpleaños. No conozco el PRIMER cumpleaños sin un sujeto a quién felicitar? Ni tampoco doy regalos a la palabra CUMPLEAÑOS.*
*Este es mi punto de vista y así veo la construcción con el progresivo*
*IS BEING in English, hasta ahora no se me ha explicado con contundencia el error de esta construcción : this birthday is being my nicest one ( claro estando yo en la fiesta). Para terminar te doy la definición de CUMPLEAÑOS de la última edición del DDRAE.*
*<<cumpleaños.1. m. Aniversario del nacimiento de una persona.>>>*
*Gracias de nuevo y una feliz tarde.*

*Ivy29*


----------



## Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo

I have found this grammar source:

*Stative and Dynamic Forms*

 Martha Kolln* suggests that we *think of the difference between stative and dynamic in terms of “willed” and “nonwilled” qualities*. ... we can use progressive verb forms in conjunction with [a "willed"] quality. 
... In the same way, nouns and *pronouns* can be said to exhibit willed and unwilled characteristics. Thus, “*She* is being a good worker” (because *she  chooses to be so*), but we would say “*She* is (not _is being)_ an Olympic athlete” (because once she becomes an athlete *she* *no longer “wills it”*).
_
Understanding English Grammar by Martha Kolln. 4rth Edition. MacMillan Publishing Company: New York. 1994._ 

Hence "It is being my best birthday" should be considered as wrong because subject _it _[_birthday_] can not "will anything".

I guess that prosopopoeia o personification might be carried out this way:

He/She is being my best birthday.

As in Shakespeare's:

_The Death will come when He will._

I hope   that will settle it, indeed.

Regards,

Pedro.


----------



## Reina140

Regardless of how you want to look at it . . . If you say that, you will be corrected.  I've never tried to tell anyone how to speak their own language.


----------



## Ivy29

Reina140 said:


> Regardless of how you want to look at it . . . If you say that, you will be corrected. I've never tried to tell anyone how to speak their own language.


 
*Sorry it is NOT to tell some how to speak its own language but to write down other AUTHORS  opinion of grammar in the language of Shakespeare.*

Ivy29


----------



## Iliana

Ivy29 said:


> Te agradezco tu información pero estamos en desacuerdo, el concepto de verbos copulativos los hace un grupo muy especial, pues son verbos de estado con algunas excepciones, Cuando actúan como copulares simplemente sirven de PUENTE entre el sujeto y el predicado nominal o atributivo del sujeto. Decir que una fiesta es buena o mala sea INCORRECTO no lo entendería ni lo aceptaría; además si yo estoy en este momento celebrando mi cumpleaños : *Puedo decir: este cumpleaños está siendo el mejor de mi vida. PUES ASÍ LO estoy viviendo en este instante para eso es la perífrasis estar + gerundio=SIENDO o presente progresivo del verbo estar, uso estar pues señala una acción transitoria y no permanente que si implicaría el verbo SER. *
> 
> *Lo que me señalas es correcto en español, pero no siempre es aplicable en inglés.  Cada lengua tiene sus propios universos conceptuales y querer imponer un concepto de una lengua a otra no tiene sentido.*
> 
> *En Inglés existe algo parecido con relaciópn a el verbo TO BE con el problema que para ellos es = SER-ESTAR no para nosotros. Los INGLESES y AMERICANOS necesitan usar IS BEING para señalar lo transitorio : He is being foolish now, at this moment.*
> 
> *Tu mismo lo has dicho: is being se usa para hablar de algo de índole transitorio o excepcional. Las personas cambian de comportamiento, pero los eventos no. Las personas forman parte de los eventos, pero los eventos no son las personas. Somos las personas quienes interpretamos los conceptos, pero un concepto es ajeno a la interpretacion que se le dé. El cumpleaños no está al pendiente de tu opinión respecto a él. *
> 
> *Si se puede decir La Casa Blanca está siendo blanda con sus amigos por ser ella un icono del gobierno de EE.UU, también se puede utilizar en aquellas cualidades o sustantivos que tienen como SUJETO una persona humana. *
> 
> *Si se puede decir eso de la Casa Blanca, pero solo en sentido figurativo. La Casa Blanca es un organismo que tiene connotaciones políticas, y tiene una forma de "comportarse". Los cumpleaños no.*
> 
> *NO HAY SUJETO > no hay cumpleaños. No conozco el PRIMER cumpleaños sin un sujeto a quién felicitar? Ni tampoco doy regalos a la palabra CUMPLEAÑOS.*
> 
> *Mi estimado: estás confundiendo la gimnasia con la magnesia. El sujeto no debe ser necesariamente una persona. ¿O acaso los verbos impersonales son incorrectos porque carecen de sujeto? *
> 
> *Este es mi punto de vista (es tu punto de vista, pero no por eso estás en lo correcto en cuanto al uso de una lengua que no es tu lengua materna) y así veo la construcción con el progresivo*
> *IS BEING in English, hasta ahora no se me ha explicado con contundencia el error de esta construcción : this birthday is being my nicest one ( claro estando yo en la fiesta). Para terminar te doy la definición de CUMPLEAÑOS de la última edición del DDRAE.*
> 
> *<<cumpleaños.1. m. Aniversario del nacimiento de una persona.>>>*
> *Gracias de nuevo y una feliz tarde.*
> 
> *No necesito que me definas que significa: tu mismo has respondido qué es con la primera palabra de esa definición: aniversario. No persona, sino aniversario. Persona ocupa el último lugar en la definición, y si sabes de periodismo y redacción, sabrás que el elemento menos relevante va al último.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Ivy29*


----------



## Ivy29

Iliana said:


> Ay hombre que contigo no se puede...lee con atención mi post anterior..y si aún no captas la diferencia, entonces ni Dios padre podrá deshacer tu enredo...


 

*Puedo decir: este cumpleaños está siendo el mejor de mi vida. PUES ASÍ LO estoy viviendo en este instante para eso es la perífrasis estar + gerundio=SIENDO o presente progresivo del verbo estar, uso estar pues señala una acción transitoria y no permanente que si implicaría el verbo SER. *

*Lo que me señalas es correcto en español, pero no siempre es aplicable en inglés. Cada lengua tiene sus propios universos conceptuales y querer imponer un concepto de una lengua a otra no tiene sentido.*

*Ivy29--Este concepto es respaldado por gramáticos INGLESES que señaló Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo, y sin necesidad de estas afirmaciones , así como la Casa BLANCA es un icono de gobierno de los EE.UU, siendo una casa blanca; también los nombres que SIEMPRE NECESITAN de un sujeto humano para realizarse como CUMPLEAÑOS pueden asumir el rol personificado de su sujeto natural, la persona y las que lo acompañan en su día : este cumpleaños esta siendo el más feliz de mi vida. ( metonimia).*

*Tu mismo lo has dicho: is being se usa para hablar de algo de índole transitorio o excepcional. ( espero que los cumpleaños sean transitorios Y NO PERMANENTES) Las personas cambian de comportamiento, pero los eventos no. Las personas forman parte de los eventos, pero los eventos no son las personas. Somos las personas quienes interpretamos los conceptos, pero un concepto es ajeno a la interpretacion que se le dé. El cumpleaños no está al pendiente de tu opinión respecto a él. *

*Ivy29- SIENTO discrepar con tus conceptos del evento de cumplir años, aquí EL REY/REINA del evento es el sujeto= PERSONA. La celebración es alegre, emocionante, espléndida POR LAS PERSONAS no por el evento PER SE. CLARO que interpretamos ( PERO SON LAS PERSONAS el centro de nuestra INTERPRETACIÓN dentro del mundo REAL. UN CUMPLEAÑOS es ABURRIDO O ALEGRE según las personas, espero QUE LAS VELAS, LOS TRAJES, los perfumes no sean los que determinen tus EMOCIONES, PREFIERO las PERSONAS que los usan ellos son el foco de mis INTERPRETACIONES en una reunión. PARA ESO me compro el perfume y ME EMOCIONO SOLITO.*

*Si se puede decir eso de la Casa Blanca, pero solo en sentido figurativo. La Casa Blanca es un organismo que tiene connotaciones políticas, y tiene una forma de "comportarse". Los cumpleaños no.*
*LOS CUMPLEAÑOS sí tienen comportamiento hasta han embarazado a la chica que cumple MY GOD !!!. En la misma FIESTA claro a estas ORGÍAS yo no asisto !!LOL""*

*CLARO la CELEBRACIÓN DEL CUMPLEAÑOS específico LO FORMAN UN GRUPO DE PERSONAS que se acercan al AGASAJADO, fórmula maravillosa para alegrar el sufrimiento de cumplir años desde la óptica existencial, es una actividad social y HUMANA, cualquier cosa que se diga de dicha CELEBRACIÓN INCUMBE a las personas celebrantes y EL REY/REINA CELEBRADO-a. Si digo ese CUMPLEAÑOS estuvo extraordinario y maravillos, bailamos hast las cinco a.m, estoy refiriéndome a una buena pareja que me encantó tanto que me hizo quedarme hasta las 5 a.m. SI FUERA SHAKIRA me quedaría una semana ( no sé si el cuerpo me resiste  .*


*NO HAY SUJETO > no hay cumpleaños. No conozco el PRIMER cumpleaños sin un sujeto a quién felicitar? Ni tampoco doy regalos a la palabra CUMPLEAÑOS.*

*Mi estimado: estás confundiendo la gimnasia con la magnesia. El sujeto no debe ser necesariamente una persona. ¿O acaso los verbos impersonales son incorrectos porque carecen de sujeto? *

*Ivy29 -LA MAGNESIA la receto para CONSTIPACIÓN DEL CUERPO y yo no sufro de eso. QUIÉN DIJO que los IMPERSONALES son INCORRECTOS??? NO tienen sujeto, no creo que el ser /estar PROGRESIVO se puede aplicar a un sujeto que no existe gramaticalmente. TE REPITO no doy regalos en un cumpleaños sino a la PERSONA que los cumple, nunca a la PALABRA AISLADA y FRÍA CUMPLEAÑOS.*


*Este es mi punto de vista (es tu punto de vista, pero no por eso estás en lo correcto en cuanto al uso de una lengua que no es tu lengua materna) y así veo la construcción con el progresivo*
*IS BEING in English, hasta ahora no se me ha explicado con contundencia el error de esta construcción : this birthday is being my nicest one ( claro estando yo en la fiesta). Para terminar te doy la definición de CUMPLEAÑOS de la última edición del DDRAE.*

*<<cumpleaños.1. m. Aniversario del nacimiento de una persona.>>>*
*Gracias de nuevo y una feliz tarde.*

*No necesito que me definas que significa: tu mismo has respondido qué es con la primera palabra de esa definición: aniversario. No persona, sino aniversario. Persona ocupa el último lugar en la definición, y si sabes de periodismo y redacción, sabrás que el elemento menos relevante va al último.*
*Ivy29-- TAMPOCO ESTOY de acuerdo contigo respecto a tu ENTENDER de lo IMPORTANTE en la definición, generalmente las últimas son las más frescas, y en este caso LA PERSONA es la más importante, la celebración es secundaria. NO HAY PERSONA NO HAY CELEBRACIÓN asi de sencillo, en el caso de CELEBRAR UN CUMPLEAÑOS.*
*Felicidades*
*Ivy29*


----------



## Iliana

Ivy29 said:


> *Puedo decir: este cumpleaños está siendo el mejor de mi vida. PUES ASÍ LO estoy viviendo en este instante para eso es la perífrasis estar + gerundio=SIENDO o presente progresivo del verbo estar, uso estar pues señala una acción transitoria y no permanente que si implicaría el verbo SER. *
> 
> *Lo que me señalas es correcto en español, pero no siempre es aplicable en inglés. Cada lengua tiene sus propios universos conceptuales y querer imponer un concepto de una lengua a otra no tiene sentido.*
> 
> *Ivy29--Este concepto es respaldado por gramáticos INGLESES que señaló Pedro P. Calvo Morcillo, y sin necesidad de estas afirmaciones , así como la Casa BLANCA es un icono de gobierno de los EE.UU, siendo una casa blanca; también los nombres que SIEMPRE NECESITAN de un sujeto humano para realizarse como CUMPLEAÑOS pueden asumir el rol personificado de su sujeto natural, la persona y las que lo acompañan en su día : este cumpleaños esta siendo el más feliz de mi vida. ( metonimia).*
> 
> *Tu mismo lo has dicho: is being se usa para hablar de algo de índole transitorio o excepcional. ( espero que los cumpleaños sean transitorios Y NO PERMANENTES) Las personas cambian de comportamiento, pero los eventos no. Las personas forman parte de los eventos, pero los eventos no son las personas. Somos las personas quienes interpretamos los conceptos, pero un concepto es ajeno a la interpretacion que se le dé. El cumpleaños no está al pendiente de tu opinión respecto a él. *
> 
> *Ivy29- SIENTO discrepar con tus conceptos del evento de cumplir años, aquí EL REY/REINA del evento es el sujeto= PERSONA. La celebración es alegre, emocionante, espléndida POR LAS PERSONAS no por el evento PER SE. CLARO que interpretamos ( PERO SON LAS PERSONAS el centro de nuestra INTERPRETACIÓN dentro del mundo REAL. UN CUMPLEAÑOS es ABURRIDO O ALEGRE según las personas, espero QUE LAS VELAS, LOS TRAJES, los perfumes no sean los que determinen tus EMOCIONES, PREFIERO las PERSONAS que los usan ellos son el foco de mis INTERPRETACIONES en una reunión. PARA ESO me compro el perfume y ME EMOCIONO SOLITO.*
> 
> *Si se puede decir eso de la Casa Blanca, pero solo en sentido figurativo. La Casa Blanca es un organismo que tiene connotaciones políticas, y tiene una forma de "comportarse". Los cumpleaños no.*
> 
> *CLARO la CELEBRACIÓN DEL CUMPLEAÑOS específico LO FORMAN UN GRUPO DE PERSONAS que se acercan al AGASAJADO, fórmula maravillosa para alegrar el sufrimiento de cumplir años desde la óptica existencial, es una actividad social y HUMANA, cualquier cosa que se diga de dicha CELEBRACIÓN INCUMBE a las personas celebrantes y EL REY/REINA CELEBRADO-a. Si digo ese CUMPLEAÑOS estuvo extraordinario y maravillos, bailamos hast las cinco a.m, estoy refiriéndome a una buena pareja que me encantó tanto que me hizo quedarme hasta las 5 a.m. SI FUERA SHAKIRA me quedaría una semana ( no sé si el cuerpo me resiste  .*
> 
> 
> *NO HAY SUJETO > no hay cumpleaños. No conozco el PRIMER cumpleaños sin un sujeto a quién felicitar? Ni tampoco doy regalos a la palabra CUMPLEAÑOS.*
> 
> *Mi estimado: estás confundiendo la gimnasia con la magnesia. El sujeto no debe ser necesariamente una persona. ¿O acaso los verbos impersonales son incorrectos porque carecen de sujeto? *
> 
> *Ivy29 -LA MAGNESIA la receto para CONSTIPACIÓN DEL CUERPO y yo no sufro de eso. QUIÉN DIJO que los IMPERSONALES son INCORRECTOS??? No captaste. Es una expresion coloquial. Ah, pero para ti lo coloquial no tiene sentido por no ser racional.  No de mi ejemplo de los impersonal fue una forma de ironizar lo inflexible de tu esquema- no te sales de las reglas gramaticales- *
> 
> *NO tienen sujeto, no creo que el ser /estar PROGRESIVO se puede aplicar a un sujeto que no existe gramaticalmente. TE REPITO no doy regalos en un cumpleaños sino a la PERSONA que los cumple, nunca a la PALABRA AISLADA y FRÍA CUMPLEAÑOS.*
> 
> 
> *Este es mi punto de vista (es tu punto de vista, pero no por eso estás en lo correcto en cuanto al uso de una lengua que no es tu lengua materna) y así veo la construcción con el progresivo*
> *IS BEING in English, hasta ahora no se me ha explicado con contundencia el error de esta construcción : this birthday is being my nicest one ( claro estando yo en la fiesta). Para terminar te doy la definición de CUMPLEAÑOS de la última edición del DDRAE.*
> 
> *<<cumpleaños.1. m. Aniversario del nacimiento de una persona.>>>*
> *Gracias de nuevo y una feliz tarde.*
> 
> *No necesito que me definas que significa: tu mismo has respondido qué es con la primera palabra de esa definición: aniversario. No persona, sino aniversario. Persona ocupa el último lugar en la definición, y si sabes de periodismo y redacción, sabrás que el elemento menos relevante va al último.*
> *Ivy29-- TAMPOCO ESTOY de acuerdo contigo respecto a tu ENTENDER de lo IMPORTANTE en la definición, generalmente las últimas son las más frescas, y en este caso LA PERSONA es la más importante, la celebración es secundaria. NO HAY PERSONA NO HAY CELEBRACIÓN asi de sencillo, en el caso de CELEBRAR UN CUMPLEAÑOS.*
> *Felicidades*
> *Ivy29*


 No es mi entender acerca de lo que es importante en la definición y el orden de las palabras _-jerarquización-_ , y eso es algo que mis profesores de redacción -uno de ellos es editor de un periúdico en México- me enseñaron. Pero yo ya no pierdo el tiempo contigo, que en tu caso es a oídos necios, no hay palabras que valgan.


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## Patriccke

Ivy29 said:


> OR *THIS ONE* is being my nicest birthday.
> *This birthday is being my nicest one.*
> *The WHITE HOUSE is being nice with its friends.*
> 
> Ivy29


 *The White House is being nice with its friends* stands for *The president and his staff is being nice with its friends stands*

 What could *This birthday is being my nicest one* stand for with a human subject???* I am being my nicest one*? *The people I invited to my birthday are being my nicest ones*?? *The guy who is celebrating his birthday is being his nicest one*??? Total nonsense!

 Can you explain us how you would say that using a human subject?


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## Patriccke

JackInMadrid said:


> his last words - but a birthday IS a person...


_But a birthday is *being* a person_.

You won't understand this grammar rule, will you?


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## natasha2000

Por favor, Ivy, no te hagas el sueco...

¿Será posible que de verdad crees en esto que acabas de escribir? 

*



LOS CUMPLEAÑOS sí tienen comportamiento hasta han embarazado a la chica que cumple ..."

Click to expand...

* 
A ver CÓMO un cumpleaños puede EMBARAZAR a una mujer???? Para que uno (o algo) EMBARACE a una mujer (o hembra) tiene que tener algo que un evento como cumpleaños NO TIENE. 

El cumpleaños no puede tener comportamiento. Lo tienen personas que asisten. El garrulo ese que ha embarazado a la cumpleañera, y la cumpleañera tienen comportamiento y lo pueden (o no) cambiar. También con su comportamiento pueden hacer el cumpleaños mejor opeor, divertido o aburrido, hacerlo bonito o estropearlo. Ellos y cumpleaños no son lo mismo.

Según tu teoría, en la frase:

Este San Juan fue la fiesta sangrienta para XX que perdió la vida en las manos de su ex marido.

a la XX no la ha matado su ex, sino la fiesta San Juan...  

Ej que de verda'... (como diría el Sr. Bono... )


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## Ivy29

timpeac said:


> a birthday is_ being_ a person, surely?


 

Nope, the birthday party or celebration is closed linked to HUMAN behaviour, like wise the WHITE HOUSE AS  A pretty HOUSE IS NOT the goverment per se but its ICON, UNCLE SAM is not your UNCLE but the FIGURE of the USA government. All these METONYMIES are closed related to HUMAN qualities. When I read the  AESOP’S FABLES I get real shock to learn the SMART and sneaky conversation of the FOXES, BIRDS, FROGS, HARES, FROGS to create moral teachings. We use on daily basis many figures of speech without noticing it.
WHEN I utter : THIS PARTY is being boring  ( BORING) is not the word but the people there. POLITNESS sometimes attaches the boring to headaches, or stomach  problems, etc. WOULD be interesting to open a thread of FIGURES of speech in both languages.
This birthday is being  my nicest one ( METONYMY)
Have a nice day, Jack
Ivy29


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## JackInMadrid

I'm afraid I have to knock down your argument once more. There are three points. I ask that you read them carefully. 

POINT 1
a party cannot represent people in such a strong sense as "The Whitehouse" or "a class" can. It is a much weaker representation.
You could say:
"the party moved outside" meaning the people of the party moved outside
"the party went out of control" meaning the people of the party went out of control

A hurricane can move, it can go out of control
A car can move, it can go out of control.
Neither a car nor a hurricane is human.

You cannot attribute "willed actions" or "felt states" to a party
you cannot say
"the party is bored"
"the party is excited"
"the party is being really nice"

why is this the case Ivy? Because that's the grammar, that beast that only you believe to be a construct of perfect logic and faultless execution.

POINT 2
A birthday is not a party
A birthday is the day. There can be a party on that day. There can be many other things. But the definition of a birthday does not include a party.

POINT 3
This is more a "what-if". Let's imagine that everything you have said is correct. This is what are saying:
this birthday is being my nicest = the people are being my nicest

This of course has no sense.

CONCLUSION
You're wrong on so many levels, I will educate you on some of them:
- Your general use of grammar is poor and yet you act as if you knew what you were talking about
- you believe grammar is mathematics - without exception, perfect logic, total consistency of application
- you are unwilling to listen, only seeking evidence that can backup your preconceived opinions and bullying those you could have different opinions
- you think that what is correct in Spanish must be correct in English
- you believe that a birthday represents people
- you believe that "people can be my nicest"

For your sake, and others, please reevaluate your methods.

Jack


----------



## Ivy29

quizasundia said:


> Ivy29,
> 
> I have read all of these posts so far. I am a native speaker of English. I cannot offer you a grammatician's explanation of why your preferred translation: "This one is being my nicest birthday..." is not something a native speaker would say. I do not have the resources available to try to find a "rule". If you like the way it sounds...say it. I would understand what you meant, although it would sound odd. You could also (in grammatically correct fashion according to your terms above) say "Being my nicest birthday, this one is." Again it would never occur to a native speaker to say this. Googling for grammar is probably not the most accurate way to find correct phrases in English. There are billions of postings to the internet from non-native English speakers. Just think...someone may have Googled your phrase "It is being my nicest birthday..." by now.
> 
> I think the aforementioned variation:
> 
> This is turning out to be my nicest birthday.
> 
> is the best choice. Perhaps,
> 
> This is going to be my nicest birthday.
> 
> could work.
> 
> Now that I look at the second sentence there seems to be some implication (also mentioned above) that the birthday itself can't be judged until it is complete...and then it would no longer be in a progressive state.
> Hmmmmmm. I love the challenge. IS there an explanation out there???


*THAT is the proper usage of the present progressive for actions going on at the moment of speaking. this birthday is being my nicest one.*

Ivy29


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## diseña

Ivy29 said:


> *SORRY about your misinterpretation but 28 of my dictionaries states that BITCH is the FEMALE of the DOG, *
> Ivy29


Ivy, ¿cuántos diccionarios tienes?  

Estoy de acuerdo con los demás en que *"this birthday is being my nicest one" *no está bien...


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## JackInMadrid

Ivy29 said:


> *THAT is the proper usage of the present progressive for actions going on at the moment of speaking. this birthday is being my nicest one.*
> 
> Ivy29



You cannot backup your grammar with grammar that isn't the same. Its meaningless.

In accordance with your logic, the following is perfect logical deduction:
It is against the law to murder someone
Therefore I can run naked through the streets shouting "I'm a chicken".

Jack


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## Patriccke

JackInMadrid said:


> It is against the law to murder someone
> Therefore I can run naked through the streets shouting "I'm a chicken".


YOU can't. A birthday can 


Patriccke said:


> *The White House is being nice with its friends* stands for *The president and his staff is *(oops, are! ) *being nice with its* (their! re-)* friends*
> 
> What could *This birthday is being my nicest one* stand for with a human subject???* I am being my nicest one*? *The people I invited to my birthday are being my nicest ones*?? *The guy who is celebrating his birthday is being his nicest one*??? Total nonsense!
> 
> Can you explain us how you would say that using a human subject?


 Sorry, I should have written *Can you explain us how you would say that using a human subject?* to get a chance to be read.
So...


----------



## Patriccke

Ivy29 said:


> PRESENT PROGRESSIVE is for actions going on at the present time and is NOT FINISHED yet.


 I agree with you. You said it: for *ACTIONS*. Congratulations!!! And as you obviously know action verbs are opposed to state verbs.

And don't be fooled by the form "you're being dense", where be = behave (behaving is an action). How many times did we say it???

As far as I know a birthday can do many things but rarely behaves!!!

Still haven't found how to reformulate *This birthday is being my nicest one *with a human subject? How weird...


----------



## Iliana

JackInMadrid said:


> I'm afraid I have to knock down your argument once more. There are three points. I ask that you read them carefully.
> 
> POINT 1
> a party cannot represent people in such a strong sense as "The Whitehouse" or "a class" can. It is a much weaker representation.
> You could say:
> "the party moved outside" meaning the people of the party moved outside
> "the party went out of control" meaning the people of the party went out of control
> 
> A hurricane can move, it can go out of control
> A car can move, it can go out of control.
> Neither a car nor a hurricane is human.
> 
> You cannot attribute "willed actions" or "felt states" to a party
> you cannot say
> "the party is bored"
> "the party is excited"
> "the party is being really nice"
> 
> why is this the case Ivy? Because that's the grammar, that beast that only you believe to be a construct of perfect logic and faultless execution.
> 
> POINT 2
> A birthday is not a party
> A birthday is the day. There can be a party on that day. There can be many other things. But the definition of a birthday does not include a party.
> 
> POINT 3
> This is more a "what-if". Let's imagine that everything you have said is correct. This is what are saying:
> this birthday is being my nicest = the people are being my nicest
> 
> This of course has no sense.
> 
> CONCLUSION
> You're wrong on so many levels, I will educate you on some of them:
> - Your general use of grammar is poor and yet you act as if you knew what you were talking about
> - you believe grammar is mathematics - without exception, perfect logic, total consistency of application
> - you are unwilling to listen, only seeking evidence that can backup your preconceived opinions and bullying those you could have different opinions
> - you think that what is correct in Spanish must be correct in English
> - you believe that a birthday represents people
> - you believe that "people can be my nicest"
> 
> For your sake, and others, please reevaluate your methods.
> 
> Jack


Wow Jack! I totally agree with your conclusions about grammar. Grammar does nothing but trying to regulate and categorize language signs. Language is not math. Ferdinand de Saussure said that linguistic signs are arbitrary. Therefore, who is not to say grammar is arbritrary as well?

Languages are in constant change and words can be used in different ways to convey different things. And language, unlike other things, can not be measured or disected. That's why many scientists don't even consider linguistics as a science.


----------



## Ivy29

Patriccke said:


> I agree with you. You said it: for *ACTIONS*. Congratulations!!! And as you obviously know action verbs are opposed to state verbs.
> 
> And don't be fooled by the form "you're being dense", where be = behave (behaving is an action). How many times did we say it???
> 
> As far as I know a birthday can do many things but rarely behaves!!!
> 
> Still haven't found how to reformulate *This birthday is being my nicest one *with a human subject? How weird...


The White House is being nice with its friends. 
Does WHITE HOUSE  BEHAVE???
Talking is being a problem with the frogs in AESOP's fables( TALKING is referred to HUMAN beings behaviour?
Ivan's birthday is being the nicest one.
The frog's party is being a ball at AESOP's fables.
THe frog's conversation is being amazing
Ivy29


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## timpeac

Ivy29 said:


> The White House is being nice with its friends.
> Does WHITE HOUSE BEHAVE???
> Talking is being a problem with the frogs in AESOP's fables ( TALKING is referred to HUMAN beings behaviour?
> Ivan's birthday is being the nicest one.
> The frog's party is being a ball at AESOP's fables.
> THe frog's conversation is being amazing
> Ivy29


Ivy - the issue isn't if the noun is connected with a human being (such as a birthday or talking). You can only use the progressive form if either the subject is a person or if the noun directly represents a person - such as "the whitehouse" which represents the president and the men and women who make up the government. A birthday doesn't directly represent the person whose birthday it is and "talking" doesn't directly represent (= stand as a symbol for) the person talking.

I have to ask - are you not even the slightest bit concerned you might be wrong given that now over a dozen native speakers, and several obviously experts in what they are speaking about, have told you that whatever the grammatical reason might be "this is being my best birthday" simply isn't said? You can argue about the reasons why but you can't force something to be said if it isn't...

I can honestly say that in all my time at WR I have never seen such arrogance.


----------



## Ivy29

timpeac said:


> Ivy - the issue isn't if the noun is connected with a human being (such as a birthday or talking). You can only use the progressive form if either the subject is a person or if the noun directly represents a person - such as "the whitehouse" which represents the president and the men and women who make up the government. A birthday doesn't directly represent the person whose birthday it is and "talking" doesn't directly represent (= stand as a symbol for) the person talking.
> 
> I have to ask - are you not even the slightest bit concerned you might be wrong given that now over a dozen native speakers, and several obviously experts in what they are speaking about, have told you that whatever the grammatical reason might be "this is being my best birthday" simply isn't said? You can argue about the reasons why but you can't force something to be said if it isn't...
> 
> I can honestly say that in all my time at WR I have never seen such arrogance.


 
Ivan's birthday is not a birthday of Ivan?? *or Ivan is a LION* ??? OR I HAVE TO EVADE THE WORD BIRTHDAY because some one doesn't like it???
Frog's conversation  is not a conversation of the frog???
Ivan's party is NOT a party of Ivan
Ivan's car is not a car of Ivan. 
This is amazing!!!!
AZAR's called NON-PROGRESSIVE VERBS and PROGRESSIVE verbs, the verb to be is used in the *PROGRESSIVE* to describe TEMPORARY CHARACTERISTIC. IF a verb as important as TO BE could not be used as PROGRESSIVE because only action verbs can be progressive, all my books mostly BRITISH are wrong. I cannot believe this. SOURCE AZAR's page 13- numeral 1-9 Vol A.
*SO FAR I have not been convinced otherwise. PROBABLY if I define METONYMY or **prosopopoeia* *things could get clearer.*
*I do not care about arrogance, or stubborness.* *My actitude is for the quest of truth with reasonable argument to prove it.*


Ivy29


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## Violet Green

Hello Ivy 29, 
JackinMadrid did a lot of good explaining. Please be patient with us - we're only native speakers, after all. 
One of the strange google examples, "yes is being my answer"
strikes me as being possible in a political campaign with the politician saying
" "_Yes_" is being _my_ answer all along".

I agree with Mgarey. If you say that a birthday "is being", it makes it sound as if the birthday is a living creature.


----------



## timpeac

I don't know what more to say. I can only repeat what I've said before, so I'll do that once but no more, since there is no point in doing it more -

You can use the progressive form after people or objects that directly represent people.

The white house = the president and his party. = metonymy
My birthday does not = me. = no metonymy
The crown = the queen and her family. = metonymy
The frog's conversation does not = the frog. = no metonymy.

If "this birthday is being my best" was metonymic you should be able to swap "birthday" for "I" without changing the meaning and you can't.

At the end of the day I can't see how you can claim not to be convinced that this is true even if you don't believe the grammatical arguments. It is the native speakers of a language who decide what is right and wrong and this case is completely clear for all native speakers and every one has said "this birthday is being my best" is wrong.

I don't understand how gravity works but I don't fall off the Earth, do I?


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## timpeac

I'm not a mod in this forum - but guys don't go down the route of making this off topic about bitches. I want to know the next outcome of the "is being" saga!


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## natasha2000

timpeac said:


> I'm not a mod in this forum - but guys don't go down the route of making this off topic about bitches. I want to know the next outcome of the "is being" saga!


 
But, don't you think that it is too obvious that this is becoming useless? It's Ivy's logic against everyone's knowledge here. I think that a lot of people here said everything that can be said and explained many times very clearly why Ivy cannot say what he says. If Ivy does not want to accept the opinion of more than 10 natives here, not counting no-natives who say the same, then it is his problem. Nobody prevents him from going around and telling that birthday is being nice and I cannot possibly imagine what kind of looks he would get when he says that he bought a nice leash for his *bitch* to take her for a walk.... 

We can only repeat what we said, then give up, then new foreros will come, fresh and ready to repeat all what has already been told, and this thread can reach 1000 or maybe even 10 000 posts, and Ivy will still think the same.... So, what's the point?


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## Reina140

Ivy29 said:


> Ivan's birthday is not a birthday of Ivan?? *or Ivan is a LION* ??? OR I HAVE TO EVADE THE WORD BIRTHDAY because some one doesn't like it???
> Frog's conversation is not a conversation of the frog???
> Ivan's party is NOT a party of Ivan
> Ivan's car is not a car of Ivan.
> This is amazing!!!!
> AZAR's called NON-PROGRESSIVE VERBS and PROGRESSIVE verbs, the verb to be is used in the *PROGRESSIVE* to describe TEMPORARY
> 
> 
> 
> *I think Ivy is confused . . . well we all know that, but what I mean is, I think it's clear that she/he is confusing possession in with this somehow.*
> 
> *Just because it is Ivan's car does not mean that you can personify it, in that case, just about anything could be personified.*


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## cuchuflete

When this thread began, a simple, clear answer was provided, with the additional comment that the usage might be grammatically correct, despite not being used:  





JackInMadrid said:


> In this case we wouldn't use the continuous of "to be",* it sounds strange
> *


 
It does indeed sound strange.  It is not idiomatic usage in English.  I did not say that it is _incorrect_.  It sounds like something a native speaker would not say.

About two hours after JackInMadrid posted his simple statement, another person asked, again, for an answer, although a good answer had already been provided.  


Ivy29 said:


> I would appreciate any explanation about why NOT using the progressive ' IS BEING' in this particular case.



Now, many dozens of posts later, it still sounds strange, clunky, and unidiomatic.  It is worth noting that many things can be said in English and other languages that satisfy the rules of grammar, and yet sound very odd.  They are simply not said very much because they sound so strange, and they sound so strange simply because they are so little used.


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## cuchuflete

I just had a look at the rules of this forum. The rulebook is being ignored more than a little:


> Always be respectful of other users, the system, and the moderators. We put the system online in good faith. Please use it in good faith.



Forum Guideline number two *is being* ignored by some:



> II. The Forums promote learning and maintain *an atmosphere that is serious, academic and collaborative, with a respectful, helpful and cordial tone. *



Strenuous debate about points of fact is permitted.  Personal attacks, and comments with a nasty tone are not.


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## HUMBERT0

I’ve read all the posts, and well, I think that I’m overstating the obvious by saying the English native speakers and the rest of the foreros are right, and that *you are wrong Ivy*, very wrong, and not because you’re ignorant of the facts, it’s because you choose not to listen to people whose mother tongue is the English language, and to imply that you know best, borders on derangement. 
What a presumptuous impudence to try and convince people that what you wrongly learned is right, and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary.

You can’t possibly think that you're right while every one else is telling you that you’re incorrect in your conclusions, specially in a language that to many of us know, and who can also attest to the fact that the comments made to correct you are right on the money.

Why not simply say:
This is the best birthday ever!
This is the best birthday I ever had!
Of all my birthdays, by far this is the best one!
I couldn’t think of a better birthday!
This is the best birthday yet!
etc.


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## Ivy29

HUMBERT0 said:


> I’ve read all the posts, and well, I think that I’m overstating the obvious by saying the English native speakers and the rest of the foreros are right, and that *you are wrong Ivy*, very wrong, and not because you’re ignorant of the facts, it’s because you choose not to listen to people whose mother tongue is the English language, and to imply that you know best, borders on derangement.
> What a presumptuous impudence to try and convince people that what you wrongly learned is right, and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary.
> 
> You can’t possibly think that you're right while every one else is telling you that you’re incorrect in your conclusions, specially in a language that to many of us know, and who can also attest to the fact that the comments made to correct you are right on the money.
> 
> Why not simply say:
> This is the best birthday ever!
> This is the best birthday I ever had!
> Of all my birthdays, by far this is the best one!
> I couldn’t think of a better birthday!
> This is the best birthday yet!
> etc.


 
*I appreciate your time reading the posts, but your perception of the issue I do respect but I do not share it. In any language, always should be reasons to explain something, being or not a native IS NOT a serious reason to explain anything. Your English alternatives are clear and more common. *
*FIGURES of speech are used daily by any native in their own language without noticing. PERSONIFICATION is one of them, because linguistically* are used, are correct, and quite clear. this birthday is being my *nicest one* ( uttered by the speaker at that moment in the party) fulfil the definition of PERSONIFICATION and from my viewpoint is correct. But if you explain and prove me I CANNOT USE THIS FIGURE of the SPEECH ( PERSONIFICATION) in my sentence then I will recognize my flaw and PERIOD. SO I will sit here to read your argument telling me why I cannot use this figure of speech in BOTH languages.
Thanks
Ivy29


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## Patriccke

Ivy29 said:


> The White House is being nice with its friends.
> Does WHITE HOUSE  BEHAVE???


* Already answered:
The White House is being nice with its friends* stands for *The president and his staff are being nice with their friends*

Being nice with someone is most definitely a *behaviour*, NOT a state.



Ivy29 said:


> Ivan's birthday is not a birthday of Ivan?? *or Ivan is a LION* ??? OR I HAVE TO EVADE THE WORD BIRTHDAY because some one doesn't like it???


*Already answered:*
   What could *This birthday (or Ivan's) is being my nicest one* stand for with a human subject???* I am being my nicest one*? *The people I invited to my birthday are being my nicest ones*?? *The guy who is celebrating his birthday is being his nicest one*??? Total nonsense!

This sentence does NOT describe the person who's celebrating, nor the guests. Being a nice party, a nice moment is a *STATE*, NOT a behaviour.

*I'm still waiting for you to find how to say this sentence with a human subject...*

Until you do so I won't *waste* any more time with you

_(I'm getting pretty good at using colours too)_


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## Ivy29

Patriccke said:


> * Already answered:*
> *The White House is being nice with its friends* stands for *The president and his staff are being nice with their friends*
> 
> Being nice with someone is most definitely a *behaviour*, NOT a state.
> 
> 
> *Already answered:*
> What could *This birthday (or Ivan's) is being my nicest one* stand for with a human subject???* I am being my nicest one*? *The people I invited to my birthday are being my nicest ones*?? *The guy who is celebrating his birthday is being his nicest one*??? Total nonsense!
> 
> This sentence does NOT describe the person who's celebrating, nor the guests. Being a nice party, a nice moment is a *STATE*, NOT a behaviour.
> 
> *I'm still waiting for you to find how to say this sentence with a human subject...*
> 
> Until you do so I won't *waste* any more time with you
> 
> _(I'm getting pretty good at using colours too)_


 
*First, I want to congratulate you for the keen ability to colour your posts*. .
*Second, It seems that you have not read about figures of speech in the romance languages and English or maybe you do not wish to mention the PERSONIFICATION or PROSOPOPEIA as such.*
*Finally, using 'personification' I can make the frogs to talk, the moon to cry , and the party  or birthday to be nice with its complimented.*

Have a nice day

Ivy29


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## JackInMadrid

Ivy. How many disney animations have you seen where one of the characters is a birthday?

Jack


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## Patriccke

I didn't say it but it was clear to me that the meaning had to be the same!!!

A birthday personificating the host, grammatically speaking, it's possible. Nobody would understand it (like a pair of shoe for a person who wears it, or a microwave for the person who designed the robot that produced the glass of the rotating plate), but why not?

Let's admit that Ivan's birthday obviously stands for Ivan!!! (note: I will say "guests" instead of "complimented")

_Ivan is nice with his guests_ and _Ivan is nice_ don't mean the same at all. Why would _Ivan's birthday is (being) nice with his guests_ and _Ivan's birthday is (being) nice_ do?

First sentence = _Ivan acts with his guests in a nice way_. Describes how Ivan (or Ivan's birthday) ACTS => ACTION.
  Second: how Ivan (or Ivan's birthday) IS => STATE.

You seem to believe "A is nice to B" means "B finds A be nice". This is completely wrong!!! Don't your 28 dictionaries say it???

About personification... The sentence we want to translate is one describing the birthday party, telling how IT IS not how you, Ivan or anyone else is acting. *There's no personification in it*!!! Even if there could be one, in a different sentence, here there is none.


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## BARBY

En mi opinion es correcto decir: "Este está siendo mi mejor cumpleaños"


Adios.


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## natasha2000

BARBY said:


> En mi opinion es correcto decir: "Este está siendo mi mejor cumpleaños"
> 
> 
> Adios.


 

Muy bien, Barbie. 

Pero aquí se habla de la frase en inglés.... 

Personally, I think that personification of a birthday representing an actual host is impossible in any language, not only in English.

Try to personificate cumpleaños in Spanish, and let's see if anyone understands you.

Este cumpleaños se ha reido mucho...

El cumpleaños de Jorge me contó la historia de un niño que no sabía reconocer que se ha equivocado...


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## Ivy29

natasha2000 said:


> Muy bien, Barbie.
> 
> Pero aquí se habla de la frase en inglés....
> 
> Personally, I think that personification of a birthday representing an actual host is impossible in any language, not only in English.
> 
> Try to personificate cumpleaños in Spanish, and let's see if anyone understands you.
> 
> Este cumpleaños se ha reido mucho...
> 
> El cumpleaños de Jorge me contó la historia de un niño que no sabía reconocer que se ha equivocado...


 

La luna brincó de felicidad
Mi cumpleaños se rió de todos inclusive me hizo más viejo
Lo loros se engañan con pasión.
Los carros LLORAN por las tardes después de tanto deambular por las calles tristes de mi barrio.
PERSONIFICACIÓN ES ESO, Hay que leer
El cumpleaños me mató mis ilusiones
El cumpleaños me hizo comer como un marranito
El cumpleaños me trasnochó y me produjo un gran guayabo o resaca.
El cumpleaños fue un guiño y un grito a la felicidad
El cumpleaños me hizo reír a morir
El cumpleaños me hizo feliz.
El cumpleaños estaba siendo lo mejor, y fue lo último del cual nunca pensé igual. 
El cumpleaños me dijo sencillamente que estaba envejeciendo.

TODAS PERSONIFICADAS y LÓGICAS de acuerdo a la definición CLARA y PRECISA de PERSONIFICACIÓN. Y en algunas cabe la METONIMIA.

Ivy29


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## Iliana

BARBY said:


> En mi opinion es correcto decir: "Este está siendo mi mejor cumpleaños"
> 
> 
> Adios.


La cuestión aqui no es si esa oración es correcta o incorrecta en español. La cuestión es si la misma oración, tal cual, tiene sentido en inglés. Por la aportacion de muchos foreros, hablantes nativos y no nativos, esa oración no tiene sentido.


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## timpeac

Iliana said:


> La cuestión aqui no es si esa oración es correcta o incorrecta en español. La cuestión es si la misma oración, tal cual, tiene sentido en inglés. Por la aportacion de muchos foreros, hablantes nativos y no nativos, todos los foreros menos uno esa oración no tiene sentido.


Una precisión


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## ILT

Since no argument seems to convince Ivy and this discussion is definitely going nowhere, this thread is now closed.


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