# Форсировать реку



## cantueso

Немецкий легковой автомобиль форсирует вброд полузамерзшую речку под Ленинградом

I am trying to post some photos of the siege of Leningrad, and there is a German Ford that seems to be sliding in a large puddle of water.  Google translated that the car was "boosting" the river. Could  форсирует mean "trying very hard", "making an effort"?


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## lectrice

форсировать - _воен._ - make a forced crossing of  - http://www.lingvo-online.ru/ru/Translate/en-ru/форсировать


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## Maroseika

Форсировать - с боем преодолевать обороняемое противником препятствие, чаще водное.
В переносном значении глагол форсировать используют в значении "преодолевать преграду", обычно водную.


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## cantueso

Thank you very much. I think "battle with" is what I need.
I am sorry I can't thank you in Russian!
Besten Dank.


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## cantueso

I see. It is almost a technical term, specifically warfare language.
Thank you very much!


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi cantueso, it's definitely a military warfare term, and "make a forced crossing", as lectrice said, is the right and only translation here.  Google's "boost" makes no sense here.  Google Translate doesn't understand context well.    If you Google the phrase, you'll find many examples of it in a similar context to yours.


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## learnerr

Enquiring Mind said:


> Google Translate doesn't understand context well.


Google Translate doesn't understand anything, it just translates…


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## Maroseika

I think it is necessary to clarify, that nowadays the word форсировать doesn't sound "military" at all, and is often used just instead the word переехать (реку), like in this photo, where, as we can see, there is no battle around and the car is just peacefully crossing over the river.
Therefore, translating it as "making a forced crossing" seems to me incorrect, in this context it should be just "crossing".

By the way, "boosting" is also correct translation of the word форсировать, but it means "to boost a motor" - форсировать двигатель (increasing its power).


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## cantueso

Maroseika said:


> the word форсировать doesn't sound "military" at all, and is often used just instead the word переехать (реку), like in this photo, where, as we can see, there is no battle around and the car is just peacefully crossing over the river.
> Therefore, translating it as "making a forced crossing" seems to me incorrect, in this context it should be just "crossing".



The link didn't work, but don't try to correct it. The car I referred to is clearly in trouble. Besides "forcieren" happens to be a "good" German verb, and from reading Russian literature (in bilingual editions)I get the impression that the Russian language has always avidly gobbled up German and French terms. So I thought the translation might very well be "forcing" or "trying to force" the crossing.
Thank you for helping.


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## cantueso

learnerr said:


> Google Translate doesn't understand anything, it just translates…



.....words only.


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## cantueso

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi cantueso, it's definitely a military warfare term, and "make a forced crossing", as lectrice said, is the right and only translation here.  Google's "boost" makes no sense here.  Google Translate doesn't understand context well.


Indeed, Google doesn't understand, but is often helpful anyway. Thank you for your answer.


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## Maroseika

cantueso said:


> The link didn't work, but don't try to correct it. The car I referred to is clearly in trouble. Besides "forcieren" happens to be a "good" German verb, and from reading Russian literature (in bilingual editions)I get the impression that the Russian language has always avidly gobbled up German and French terms. So I thought the translation might very well be "forcing" or "trying to force" the crossing.
> Thank you for helping.


Nevertheless here is correct link. If you mean this picture, I cannot see any problems in crossing this river. The next will be horse vehicle. So this is just a ford, nothing more.
Looks like the word форсировать is used here just for appearance and figuratively, not as the war term. Therefore German _forcieren_ and English _forcing _seem to me translator's false friend.


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## wdata

I feel I would like to add some point here. Despite I agree with *Maroseika* the word doesn´t  sound military now, I would say it's not just "cross".  It has its military past, so a car cannot форсировать реку by the bridge, it just crosses it. But when it wades the river by the ford the word sounds just right. Or if the temporary/pontoon bridge was especially built to have the river crossed.


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## cantueso

Maroseika said:


> Nevertheless here is correct link. If you mean this picture, I cannot see any problems in crossing this river. The next will be horse vehicle. So this is just a ford, nothing more.
> Looks like the word форсировать is used here just for appearance and figuratively, not as the war term. Therefore German _forcieren_ and English _forcing _seem to me translator's false friend.



Well, for me it was certainly a false friend, and yes I meant this picture, but look at the title above: Военный альбом
Фотографии Второй мировой и Великой Отечественной войны (1939-1945). The Ford and the carriage in the background are invaders. Remember the siege of Leningrad is probably the longest and most cruel siege of all history and seems to have claimed more lives than even the battle of Stalingrad, because people starved inside the city.

However, you are probably right in that the photo doesn't show any warlike or tactical movement; the car seems to have slid into the water. I also think it is not a river, but a puddle of water and snow.
....................
Ooops.  I see you are Russian, so I should not have lectured you on the story of that city. Sorry.


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## Maroseika

cantueso said:


> I also think it is not a river, but a puddle of water and snow.



In Russian the word брод can hardly be used for a puddle, because nobody makes bridges over the puddles and вброд means exactly this: crossing a river or a lake without a bridge (originally - crossing afoot, not swimming, from брести - to plod on). So I think this is a small river.


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## cantueso

Yes, but since this брод actually floods a fairly broad road, I don't think that what we see is a river. I'd rather imagine that the people who had to sort through piles of photos while writing the captions did not look twice.


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## Maroseika

cantueso said:


> Yes, but since this брод actually floods a fairly broad road, I don't think that what we see is a river. I'd rather imagine that the people who had to sort through piles of photos while writing the captions did not look twice.


Well, maybe you are right. Although the lay of land is typical for the riverside, but a paddle in the low place cannot be exluded too. On the other hand, I would not call this road too wide, this is typical rural earthroad of a kind which even long after the war had no bridges over the brooks and rivulets.


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## Enquiring Mind

Now we have clear context, I would say "... _negotiates_ a ford on a semi-frozen river near Leningrad".


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## cantueso

I see! I knew about the width of the road, because on the horse drawn carriage in the background, there are two or even four horses going abreast. There are roads like that here in central Spain too, but I would never have imagined any that go across "brooks and rivulets".  Water is very scarce.  
Thank you very much.


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## cantueso

Yes, unlike, well, now, how shall I say, having just been admonishd about bringing in de gustibus, leaving me between the devil and the deep blue sea .......


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## Minzdrav

Cantueso,

The best word to use in English for "форсировать" is "to charge". As in, "the car charged the river" or "attempted to charge the river".

Hope this helps.


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi Minzdrav: which meaning of charge (source: OAAD) do you have in mind?  None of the definitions fit. The vehicle in the linked picture is moving slowly, not even producing any spray from the wheels.  "_Car_ (or _vehicle_ or _truck_ or_ brigade _or _horses_, or _tank(s)_ or _artillery_ or_ guns_) _charged the river_" get no hits on Google - any of them.


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## Minzdrav

If you run a Google search on "tanks charged the", you will get lots of results. You can also run a Google search using "charged the river", and you will get quite a few hits.

We can also refer to the dictionaries. The meanings (in *bold*) are very similar, and if I were a translator I'd translate it like that .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
7
*a (1) : a violent rush forward (as to attack) <the charge of the brigade>*


From the Ushakov dictionary of the Russian language:

*2.* *С боем совершить (совершать) переход через реку, теснину (воен.). Форсировать реку. Форсировать перевал.*


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## cantueso

I did a Google search for "charge the river" and I got mainly accidental combinations like "our guests at no additional _charge. The River...", _though I did see one Google Boooks example of the verb used your way by a military writer.

I am not working as a translator, and since the river crossing was photographed as part of that Leningrad siege, which even in military terms was a most cruel, mindless disaster rather than a fully planned strategic operation, I'd prefer plain language for what at any rate seems to be a difficult situation rather than a tactical movement.


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## Minzdrav

"charge*d* the river," not "charge".

A few examples:

"They watched then as the men fixed their bayonets and _*charged the river*_ bank"
"Suddenly the men _*charged the river*_, those followers of 'Alya."
"...the regiment with one accord _*charged the river*_"
"With contingents of cavalry on his right, supported by infantry close behind, he _*charged the river*_ at a gallop"

And now, concerning tanks:

"On open terrain, clear roads and avenues of approach with limited manmade and natural obstacles _*the tanks charged*_ on through"
"Deployed in a wide lineabreast formation, _*the tanks charged*_ onwards."
"_*The tanks charged*_ down on the 88-millimetres duelling at point-blank range."
"He then watched in despair as _*the tanks charged*_ the main Seaforths' position."


These are but a few of the examples. My task, as I see it, is to provide a suggestion. What you choose to do in the end is your call.


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## Great Dane

cantueso said:


> Немецкий легковой автомобиль форсирует вброд полузамерзшую речку под Ленинградом
> Could форсирует mean "trying very hard", "making an effort"?


I suppose that Russian title is not absolutly correct and it would be lucky if you produce your own title. The reason is:
- форсировать (in military context) means cross a river in the battle. Cars have not weapons and I can't imagine how they may форсировать river.

вброд - means cross a river by the bottom of the river


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## cantueso

To  				 				 					 						 	*Minzdrav* 

Your examples concern battle formations. On the photo of reference at http://waralbum.ru/189259/, there is nothing to suggest a hostile intention or pressure. It just shows how tough the Russian winter is. -- And I had not thought of what Great Dane says below, namely that the Ford has no weapons ....


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## cantueso

Great Dane said:


> - форсировать (in military context) means cross a river in the battle. Cars have not weapons and I can't imagine how they may форсировать river.
> 
> вброд - means cross a river by the bottom of the river



Yes. This has been explained further up. I think this thread could be closed now, since I was just trying to understand a photo, though I know barely enough Russian to guess my way through some Google translation.

And I did not remember the basic fact that cars are not equipped for battle.


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