# All dialects: شاي - شاهي (tea)



## GoldBug

تبغى  شاي  ولا  شاهي ؟ 

In the Gulf region, I have often heard (what sounds like) SHAHEE instead of SHAAY for "tea".

Is this SHAHEE an alternative to the more common SHAAY? And is it used elsewhere?  I've never heard it elsewhere and the first time I heard it, I didn't know what the speaker meant.  (Now of course, I use it all the time) but I'd still like to know its origin.


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## WadiH

In Saudi Arabia: شاهي (_shaahi_).
In the Gulf states: تشاي (_chaai_​).


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## muhammad2012

The word shaai is a chinese or persian origin (jay)

some places used chahi instead  of shaai like yemen

but (shaai) is in arabic dictionaries.

"
الباب الأول
في الشاي
وفي عشرة فصول


الفصل الأول
في اسمه ومادته


قال في غمدة المحتاج في الادوية والعلاج اسمه وارد من لغة الصين ويسمونه بجملة اسماء مثل تا. وتيا. وتين.
 ثم قال وهذا الجنس يشتمل على نوعين او ثلاثة اصلها من الصين وقوشنشين وهي شجيرات اوراقها متتالية جلدية وازهارها
بيضاء كبيرة.
 وقال بعضهم الجاي لفظ فارسي الاصل وليس لهذا الاسم ما يرادفه في اللغة العربية لانه حديث النشأة في جزيرة العرب اذ لم يكن يعرف فيها ولما كثر استعماله في الاقطار الحجازية والمصرية استبدل العرب جيمه شيناً على ما اعتاده المولدون فسموه شاياً. وبعضهم زاد على ذلك بان زاد عليه هاء مكسورة فدعاه الشاهي. واهل المغرب يبدلون جيمه تاء مسبوقة بهمزة فيقولون اتاي انتهى.

"
رسالة في الشاي والقهوة والدخان (الصفحة: 3 - الجزء: 1)


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## SofiaB

In Chad, shahi is used instead of shai. Despite the distance from KSA.


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## GoldBug

Thanks for all of your replies. 

We know why they use تشاي (_chaai_​) in the Gulf states. (Because of the Persian CH.... influence.)...no problem understanding that.
(Moderator note: the discussion of this opinion was moved to this new thread.)

But why شاهي (_shaahi_) in Saudi Arabia? Where did that "....hi" come from? It didn't "just happen". Something must have "caused" it.

Any comments on that much appreiciated.


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## rayloom

GoldBug said:


> But why شاهي (_shaahi_) in Saudi Arabia?  Where did that "....hi"  come from?  It didn't "just happen".  Something must have "caused" it.
> 
> Any comments on that much appreiciated.



All I could find in Arabic was a folk etymology which goes something like: shahi is from shah (king in Farsi) + i. Meaning pertaining to the king, king's drink, royal drink...etc.


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## clevermizo

GoldBug said:


> _*However, and I hope panel members here will excuse me,  whenever in the future someone asks me where Arabic "ch" comes from, I will tell them from Persian.  Why?  Because it's the easiest explanation even though it's incorrect. *_


So you are of the opinion that people should be given misinformation whenever it is easier to explain? That's interesting.

Regardless, these side discussions about the origins of [tʃ] in Arabic are off-topic here (I'd like to point out as the local moderator.)

With regards to the current discussion, the question is actually regarding the origin of the sound ه in pronunciations شاهي. My opinion is that it is a spontaneous development, probably because two long vowels do not typically occur in succession in Arabic and facilitates transition from ـا to ـي in the borrowed word. As to the pronunciation تشاي this is because [tʃ] ('ch') derives from the original word, going back ultimately to the original Chinese, and has nothing to do with the existence of this sound elsewhere in Gulf Arabic, regardless of this sound's origin, as Wadi has noted above. The existence of [tʃ] in Gulf Arabic probably helped maintain the original form of the word, rather than it becoming simplified to شاي as in other dialects and as in standard Arabic.

I recommend responding to the thread linked above by MarcB for any further debate regarding the sound تش in Arabic.


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## GoldBug

clevermizo said:


> With regards to the current discussion, the question is actually regarding the origin of the sound ه in pronunciations شاهي. My opinion is that it is a spontaneous development, probably because two long vowels do not typically occur in succession in Arabic and facilitates transition from ـا to ـي in the borrowed word. As to the pronunciation تشاي this is because [tʃ] ('ch') derives from the original word, going back ultimately to the original Chinese, and has nothing to do with the existence of this sound elsewhere in Gulf Arabic, regardless of this sound's origin, as Wadi has noted above. The existence of [tʃ] in Gulf Arabic probably helped maintain the original form of the word, rather than it becoming simplified to شاي as in other dialects and as in standard Arabic.



Sorry for getting off track there.

As far as the *شاي / شاهي  *question, I have another possible explanation.  

Is it possible that *شاهي  *came into being to differentiate it from *شيء  *(thing) ?  In rapid colloquial speech, long vowels are often shortened and hamza, especially final hamza, is lost.

So the question    ? *تبغى شاي*   could easily be  misinterpreted as   *تبغى  شيء ؟*


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## Xence

In Algerian (and also Moroccan) dialects, you may hear تاي _taay _or أتاي / لَـتاي _ataay _(_lataay_).


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## إسكندراني

Libyans are famous for saying شاهي (and nothing else).
In Egypt it's شاي


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## DarrenLamb

In Oman both are used, depending on region and tribe.


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## makandés66

Xence said:


> In Algerian (and also Moroccan) dialects, you may hear تاي _taay _or أتاي / لَـتاي _ataay _(_lataay_).



And I have heard stories that Maghrebians say ataay because the British brought it in the 18th century when they held Gibraltar.  This is probably why it sounds more like tea.  اتاي بنعناع is the very common mint tea.  بصحة و راحة


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## yields

In Morocco it becomes اتاي (Atay). Obviously a contraction of the longer "shaay". As North African dialect tends to do with a lot of expressions.


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## makandés66

So no influence of British pronunciation (tea) on the Moroccan one (اتاي) in your opinion?  I am not just stricken with olympic fever, I swear...


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## yields

Hahaha well the original word is Tshaay (or Cha, in chinese simply) actually not "shaay" -and I guess in Morocco instead of keeping the SH sound they kept the T out of convenience or just sticking out lol.


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## juventino

I second that, in Libya we say شاهي


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## SofiaB

I wondered why Chad far from Arabia used shahi but it is directly south of Lybia so that explains it.


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## ziva caramella

In Algeria we say "tay"تاي


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## Sheikh_14

Crux of the matter, Shaai is the MSA variant, yes?
 I must say it is the most common Arabic word for tea I have heard in the entire gulf including the KSA, perhaps that is just a sign of its high state of acceptance.


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## analeeh

Yeah, it's the MSA variant (as shāy) and is also the usual word in various dialects - Shami and Egyptian both have it, although in my experience in Shami it's pronounced shāy or shay (i.e. with a true diphthong) whereas in Egypt it seems to have a long 'e' (shē[y]). 

The North African 'atay' is a Berber borrowing, I think, and the sources I can find suggest that it was an earlier borrowing from Dutch.


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## Sudani

Just to add to this thread, I've actually heard quite a substantial number of sudanese people who use shahi instead of shay although I personally use the latter.


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## djara

A possible explanation of the difference in pronouncing the word for tea in the Maghreb and in the Machreq is to be found here.


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