# Persian: You didn't have any breakfast today.



## seitt

Greetings,

Re 'You didn't have any breakfast today.', how do you translation this sentence, please? I think it has two possible translations, depending on whether or not it's Ramadan.

This is the sort of thing I think I heard on Iran TV:
تو سَحَر بلند نشدی! رَمِضونه دیگه!
Is it good Persian, please?

If it's not Ramadan, do I simply substitute “ناشتایی” for “سَحَر”?

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


----------



## marrish

Before the more knowleable get to answer this, let me offer the suggestion that you have it right, apparently, but I'd say ســــ۔۔۔َحَــــری instead for this sort of meal before starting the fast (so technically speaking, it wouldn't be a ''breakfast''!).
Your sentence is correct, as far as I know; it says that the person didn't get up on _saHar_, this being the period of time before twilight before sunrise.


----------



## searcher123

> تو سَحَر بلند نشدی! رَمِضونه دیگه!
> Is it good Persian, please?


Yes, it is.



> If it's not Ramadan, do I simply substitute “ناشتایی” for “سَحَر”?


ناشتايي is correct, but صبحانه is much more common.

Note: سحر is the time just before morning Azan. سحري is called so because it is eaten at this time specially in Ramadan for fast. The food that is eaten after سحر is not called سحري; it is صبحانه or ناشتايي.


----------



## seitt

Many thanks - so, if I get up just before dawn and eat at dawn on a day that is not in Ramazan, can I call what I eat سحري?

Ah, if I understand my dictionary rightly, to eat this dawn meal is سحری خوردن, isn't it?

So, تو سَحَر بلند نشدی! actually doesn't explicitly refer to eating, does it (as our friend marrish rightly says)? However, I'm sure it does so implicitly as nobody would get up at that time at Ramadan and then not eat anything, would they?


----------



## searcher123

> if I get up just before dawn and eat at dawn on a day that is not in Ramazan, can I call what I eat سحري?


Yes you can, however, eating at dawn on a day that is not in Ramazan is not so common.



> to eat this dawn meal is سحری خوردن, isn't it?


Yes, it is.



> So, تو سَحَر بلند نشدی! actually doesn't explicitly refer to eating, does it (as our friend marrish rightly says)?


Yes, you took it right. سحر بلند شدن is a common sentence that is used out of the Ramdan too. For example we have a proverb that say:

سحر خيز باش تا كامروا شوي



> I'm sure it does so implicitly as nobody would get up at that time at Ramadan and then not eat anything, would they?



You took it right again. In Ramadan, if you say a person had got up at سحر, the first think that will get its way to the mind is for سحري خوردن, even if it is not for it exactly.


----------



## marrish

searcher123 said:


> Yes you can, however, eating at dawn on a day that is not in Ramazan is not so common.
> 
> [...]
> You took it right again. In Ramadan, if you say a person had got up at سحر, the first think that will get its way to the mind is for سحري خوردن, even if it is not for it exactly.



Eating at dawn on days not in Ramazaan would not be so common unless one is fulfilling قضا !

I agree, it is the first thing that comes to one's mind!


----------



## seitt

Thank you so much - re سحرخيز باش تا كامروا شوي, interestingly the English equivalent is a whole couplet:
Early to bed, early to rise
Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.

The negative side of this is:
Don't burn the candle at both ends!

Please see also http://www.happypublishing.com/blog/early-quotes/.


----------



## searcher123

Thanks for your equivalents to سحرخيز باز تا كامروا شوي.

Can I ask you abou the real meaning of "to burn the candle at both ends", please? I asked because I found two different meaning for it: 1.work or play too hard without enough rest; waste energy 2.go to bed late and get up early

Also I'm sure you like to know the story of سحرخيز باز تا كامروا شوي too 


مي‌گويند پادشاه تن‌پروري بود كه وزير دانشمندي داشت. هميشه وقتي پادشاه به دليل خوشگذراني‌هاي شبانه، صبح روز بعد دير از خواب بيدار مي‌شد، وزير او را نكوهش مي‌كرد و مي‌گفت: سحرخيرباش تا كامروا شوي!.

يك روز پادشاه كه ديگر از دست وزير خود به ستوه آمده بود، تصميم گرفت كاري كند تا او ديگر اين جمله را به وي نگويد. دستور داد فردا كه وزير در حال رفتن به كاخ است، عده‌اي به او حمله كنند و تمام لباس‌هايش را بدزدند.

دستور اجرا شد و عده‌اي بر سر وزير ريختند و لبا‌سهاي او را دزديدند و وي مجبور شد به خانه برگشته و لباس ديگري بپوشد. در نتيجه، آن روز دير بر سر كار خود حاضر شد. پادشاه دليل دير آمدن را از وزير پرسيد و وزير ماجرا را تعريف كرد. پادشاه با تمسخر به وزير گفت: "بفرما! اين هم نتيجه‌ي سحر خيزي! مگر هميشه نمي‌گفتي سحرخيز باش تا كامروا شود؟ اگر اينقدر زود از منزلت بيرون نمي‌آمدي، در خلوت صبحگاه به دست دزدان نمي‌افتادي.

وزير لبخندي زد و گفت: "قربانت شوم! هنوز هم همين را مي‌گويم و اين ماجرا خود دليلي بر صحّت گفتار من است"
پادشاه با تعجب پرسيد: "چطور؟"
وزير گفت: "قربانت شود! دزدان، سحرخيزتر از من بودند و كامروا شدند. از فردا من بايد زودتر و قبل از آنها بيدار شوم!"


----------



## seitt

Thank you very much for the wonderful story. The vizier’s logic is truly impeccable! By the way, in the last sentence, is قربانت شود! a typo for قربانت شوم!?

Imho, the dictionary entry is misleading. This is how it should read:
to burn the candle at both ends = 1. go to bed late and get up early 2.work or play too hard without enough rest; waste energy

In other words, the primary meaning is ‘to go to bed late and get up early’. In the days before electricity, people who stayed up late (or who got up very early before the sun rose) used candles for light.

Now, this image is poetic: you have to imagine a man using one end of the candle till late in the night, and then turning the candle round and using the other end in the morning. Which, of course, no one would ever do, but the usual end of the candle is a good metaphor for late at night and the other, "unnatural" end is a good metaphor for early in the morning: staying up late is easily done but getting up early in the morning does not give one a good feeling - in fact, it feels all wrong!


----------



## searcher123

You are welcome and thank you so much for your clarification in turn. I think there is not an exact equivalent for "Don't burn the candle at both ends!" in the meaning of "to go to bed late and get up early" in Persian.



> is قربانت شود! a typo for قربانت شوم!?


‌No it isn't. Even now, using third person is completely common at the start of official letters,. For example:

به استحضار آن مقام محترم *مي‌رساند* كه اينجانب در تاريخ ٢١ فروردين ١٣٩٠، نامه‌ي درخواستي جنابعالي را به پرونده پيوست نموده بودم، ولي ظاهرا اكنون در پرونده موجود نيست و گم شده است. *خواهشمند است* دستور رسيدگي به اين موضوع را صادر فرماييد.

As you can see, مي‌رساند is used instead of مي‌رسانم and خواهشمند است is used instead of خواهشمندم


----------



## seitt

Many thanks, how very interesting! It would seem that under certain circumstances, the third person can be used for both the first person and the second person:
اینجانب می‌خواهد
جناب عالی می‌خواهد


----------



## searcher123

> اینجانب می‌خواهد
> جناب عالی می‌خواهد



First of all, as I said, in official letters third person is used instead of first person. In other word, جنابعالي مي‌خواهد is wrong in any situation, because جنابعالي is تو not من. You should say جنابعالي مي‌خواهيد.

Also I should mention that some phrases are stereotyped for this usage. For example: به استحضار مي‌رساند; خواهشمند است; فدوي فدايت شود; چاكر قربانت گردد; حقير عرض نمود and so on


----------



## seitt

Many thanks, excellent clarification.

Do you also use the شما form with 'your majesty'? I think it "اعلی حضرت" in Persian.


----------



## searcher123

> Do you also use the شما form with 'your majesty'?


To be honest, I didn't understood what do you mean. Can you give me an example, please?



> I think it "اعلی حضرت" in Persian.


Yes, "your majesty" mean اعلي حصرت in Persian, but is not so common after Islamic Revolution of IRAN. It is used just for kings.


----------



## seitt

Much obliged - by the شما form I mean 'دارید، میدانید...' as against the تو form, which is 'داری، میدانی...'.

In other words, is it 'علی حضرت میدانید؟' ('Does Your Majesty know?')?


----------



## searcher123

seitt said:


> Much obliged - by the شما form I mean 'دارید، میدانید...' as against the تو form, which is 'داری، میدانی...'.
> 
> In other words, is it 'علی حضرت میدانید؟' ('Does Your Majesty know?')?



I see. At this situation correct is: اعلي حضرت مي‌دانند

For example:
 همانطور كه اعلي حضرت مي‌دانند/مستحضرند/واقفند، فدوي هميشه گوش به فرمان آن جناب بوده است


----------



## seitt

Many thanks - in your example sentence, does آن جناب refer to the same person as اعلي حضرت?


----------



## searcher123

seitt said:


> Many thanks - in your example sentence, does آن جناب refer to the same person as اعلي حضرت?



Yes, it is.


----------



## seitt

Many thanks, God bless!


----------



## IMANAKBARI

searcher123 said:


> مي‌گويند پادشاه تن‌پروري بود كه وزير دانشمندي داشت. هميشه وقتي پادشاه به دليل خوشگذراني‌هاي شبانه، صبح روز بعد دير از خواب بيدار مي‌شد، وزير او را نكوهش مي‌كرد و مي‌گفت: *سحرخير*باش تا كامروا شوي!.
> 
> يك روز پادشاه كه ديگر از دست وزير خود به ستوه آمده بود، تصميم گرفت كاري كند تا او ديگر اين جمله را به وي نگويد. دستور داد فردا كه وزير در حال رفتن به كاخ است، عده‌اي به او حمله كنند و تمام لباس‌هايش را بدزدند.
> 
> دستور اجرا شد و عده‌اي بر سر وزير ريختند و لبا‌سهاي او را دزديدند و وي مجبور شد به خانه برگشته و لباس ديگري بپوشد. در نتيجه، آن روز دير بر سر كار خود حاضر شد. پادشاه دليل دير آمدن را از وزير پرسيد و وزير ماجرا را تعريف كرد. پادشاه با تمسخر به وزير گفت: "بفرما! اين هم نتيجه‌ي سحر خيزي! مگر هميشه نمي‌گفتي سحرخيز باش تا كامروا شود؟ اگر اينقدر زود از منزلت بيرون نمي‌آمدي، در خلوت صبحگاه به دست دزدان نمي‌افتادي.
> 
> وزير لبخندي زد و گفت: "قربانت شوم! هنوز هم همين را مي‌گويم و اين ماجرا خود دليلي بر صحّت گفتار من است"
> پادشاه با تعجب پرسيد: "چطور؟"
> وزير گفت: "قربانت شود! دزدان، سحرخيزتر از من بودند و كامروا شدند. از فردا من بايد زودتر و قبل از آنها بيدار شوم!"
> [/rtlp]



! مرسی, بسیار جالب بود
.فقط یک اشتباه تایپی کوچولو در سطر دوم هست که من بهش اشاره کردم تا دوستان غیر فارسی زبان دچار سردرگمی نشن
سحرخیز​


----------



## searcher123

IMANAKBARI said:


> ! مرسی, بسیار جالب بود
> .فقط یک اشتباه تایپی کوچولو در سطر دوم هست که من بهش اشاره کردم تا دوستان غیر فارسی زبان دچار سردرگمی نشن
> سحرخیز​




ممنون ايمان جان. تذكر به جايي بود. آخرش هم اين searcher123 درست تايپ كردن ياد نمي‌گيره


----------

