# Gothic: So amalitha kaisaris Valensis uns nasida fram frumistsama hunnane. Uns fragaf fartha ufar Donaris jah in thraka frithu.



## GreatWorld

Hello,
I'm having trouble determining which alphabet this is (see picture). I recognize it as something from old times but haven't had any luck with remembering where it's from. 

Appreciate any help


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## Ketutar

GreatWorld said:


> View attachment 14506


Looks like some sort of combination of uncial and some germanic language... 
"so amlaitha kaisaris yllensis uns nasial fram frumistsaha hunnane"? 
Doesn't say anything to me, though.


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## GreatWorld

Hm, it could be something in that direction. I'll do some more research. 

Thanks


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## Frank78

Ketutar said:


> Looks like some sort of combination of uncial and some germanic language...
> "so amlaitha *kaisaris yllensis* uns nasial fram frumistsaha *hunnane*"?
> Doesn't say anything to me, though.



No idea which script it is but I think I can help you with the time and place. The first part in bold seems to be "Emperor Valens" (Kaisaris indeed sounds Germanic) and the latter "Huns"

It seems to be about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valens


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## ahvalj

This is Gothic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_alphabet


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## Gwunderi

ahvalj said:


> This is Gothic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_alphabet



Definitely. I also found the meaning of some words.
Very interesting site for ancient languages / writing systems: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/gothic.htm

Tried to devine how to write it in Latin letters:
"So amalipa kaisaris Valensis uns nasial fram frumistsama hunnane. Uns fragaf farpa ufar Donaris jah in braka fribu."

so ? (= so?)
amalipa ? (the nearest I could find is "amals" = brave, valorous)
Kaisaris Valensis = Emperor Valens (Genitive?)
uns = us
nasial ? nasian = save
fram = from
frumisti = beginning
frumists = first, foremost, of first rank
frumistama (Dativ Sg. of frumists)
fragaf = Imperative of "fragiban" = forgive
farpa ? = travelling, motion, passage 
ufar = over, above, beyond
Donaris = (upper) Danube river
jah = also
in = in
braka ? (brakja = battle, struggle)
fribu ? (fripu in ancient Germanic = "peace, protection" / fridu in West Gothic = "peace")

*Don't dare to try to translate *it, but *could *be something like: 

(So valorous ???) Emperor Valens save us from the (first of the ???) Huns. Forgive us to (have crossed ???) over the Danube also in (battle ???) (peace???).

In 376, emperor Valens allowed the Visigoths to settle south of the Danube (from north of the river) because of the Hun's threat. In 378 Valens was than defeated and died from the same Visigoths in the battle of Adrianople (today Edirne).

Where have you this text from? and do you know its (approximate) date?


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## berndf

Gwunderi said:


> nasial ? nasian = save


_nasida _= 3rd person singular preterite of _nasjan_, i.e. _[he] saved_.

BTW: You consitently confuse p and þ in your transliteration. Is that a problem with your fonts?


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## Gwunderi

berndf said:


> BTW: You consitently confuse p and þ in your transliteration. Is that a problem with your fonts?



Hi berndf

It's so far a problem with my fonts as I haven't installed a font for Gothic, or for transliteration signs: ) 
I saw this sign (half b and half p) in the dictionaries, but wasn't sure whether the pronunciation is something between b and p or if the exact pronunciation is not known?

Some years ago, I've studied ancient languages and writing systems for my own (from Sumeric, Egyptian, Phoenician to Greek, Latin and modern scripts). Rather extensively but not very in depth. So I first only assumed it could be Gothic (shape of the letters, Valens, Huns etc.), and had than the confirmation searching in various online dictionaries. Did it just for fun : )



> _nasida _= 3rd person singular preterite of _nasjan_, i.e. _[he] saved_.



Now that you write it down I also see that it's clearly "nasida" (l looks similar to a). I even wasn't sure if the text was possibly cut at its right side and the last letter should be an "n". So it's "Valens saved us" and not "Valens save us", I think. Where did you find this conjugated form? Do you know a good online dictionary for Gothic?

Still curious where the text is from …

Thank you and bye, Gwunderi


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## berndf

Gwunderi said:


> It's so far a problem with my fonts as I  haven't installed a font for Gothic, or for transliteration signs: )
> I saw this sign (half b and half p) in the dictionaries, but wasn't sure  whether the pronunciation is something between b and p or if the exact  pronunciation is not known?


The letter þ is called "thorn".

þ is an old runic letter that was once used in Germanic languages, even  when written with Latin letters. It existed in English until about 1450  and today it still exists in Icelandic (example). In Icelandic, it stands for the unvoiced dental fricative (like in English _*th*in_). In Old English and also Gothic, the voiced dental fricative (as in English *th*_e_) was an allophone of the unvoiced dental fricative and þ could therefore stand for both.                     



Gwunderi said:


> Where did you find this conjugated form?


Here.


Gwunderi said:


> Do you know a good online dictionary for Gothic?


This is what I know.


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## Gwunderi

berndf said:


> The letter þ is called  is the letter "thorn".
> 
> þ is an old runic letter that was once used in Germanic languages, even  when written with Latin letters. It existed in English until about 1450  and today it still exists in Icelandic (example). In Icelandic, it stands for the unvoiced dental fricative (like in English _*th*in_). In Old English and also Gothic, the voiced dental fricative (as in English *th*_e_) was an allophone of the unvoiced dental fricative and þ could therefore stand for both.



Oh, if I took a better look at omniglot.com … It looks like the Greek letter phi (pronunciation "ph"), so when I saw this sign (half b and half p) it was "clear" to me that it was b or p - but it's pronounced "th". 
(Interesting the picture of the modern Icelandic company name with this letter : )

So the new attempt to write it in Latin letters, with the corrections is:
"So amali*th*a kaisaris Valensis uns nasi*da* fram frumistsama hunnane. Uns fragaf far*th*a ufar Donaris jah in *th*raka fri*th*u."

So now it's quite sure that the last word means "peace" (as I read somewhere: fridu in West Gothic = "peace"). Unclear what "thraka" and "amalitha" could mean.

Very speculative: Emperor Valens allowed the Visigoths to settle in parts of the Roman province of Thracia or Thrakia, but I couldn't find how Thrakia was written in Gothic - maybe "thraka" could mean Thrakia? 

Found "amalida" only here:
http://archive.org/stream/historyromeandr07durugoog/historyromeandr07durugoog_djvu.txt
"The Goths, … under the leadership of two powerful families, the Amalidae (Amalungs) and Baltidae (Baltungs), who were regarded as the descendants of Odin and of Freya, …"
And: "The Baltidae," says Jordanes (20), "are, after the Amalidae, the noblest of the Goths."

But would it make any sense to say: "So [the] Amalungs of Emperor Valens …" ? - no idea.
Better I give it up now : )

Thank you also for the links 
Gwunderi


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## ancienttimes

Gwunderi said:


> Still curious where the text is from …



Endgame: The Calling by James Frey


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## dominatorft

full image, honestly if yoou would be able to translate any more of that it would be fantastic


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