# self-identifying Muslim



## أصعب قرار

Still translating my Islam article. I am trying to deduce how to best translate the term "self-identifying Muslim". Right now I have the words شخص أثبت الهوية بمسلم preliminarily written on my translated article. Is there any way I can express this with a verb based on the root هـ-و-ي (and the pattern II, I'd assume)?


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## nado92

self-identifying Muslim".
مسلم واضح الهوية
مسلم مدرك لهويته


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## Outlandish

I need you to explain what _self-identifying Muslim _means. If it is what I conjure, the translation you're looking for would be مسلم بالفطرة.


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## أصعب قرار

Sure. A self-identifying Muslim is simply anyone who claims to be a Muslim, regardless of whether or not they're actually Muslim.

To use another term, I am a self-identifying American. A French criminal who escapes to America and assumes a new identity as an French expatriate to America is also a self-identifying American, but unlike me would not be an American.


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## Mahaodeh

I don't think that such a concept exists in Islam nor in Arabic for that matter. I do believe that is an 'imported' concept.

Anyway, the best I can come up with is مدّعي الإسلام, but that implies that you _know_ for sure that he is not a Muslim despite his pretense.


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## أصعب قرار

Oh, I'm not going for that sort of term.

My first explanation left out a important facet of the meaning: the claimant also honestly believes he follows the tenets of Islam. Suppose a fundamentalist mullah were to question his piety: he would continue to say he is indeed a Muslim.


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## Mahaodeh

It's still a new concept that didn't exist before, hence there is no word for it and you will just have to invent one.


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## Outsider

A self-identifying Muslim would be someone who publicly declares himself a Muslim, and is recognized as a Muslim by the society at large. Naturally, this is a concept that only makes sense in societies where Muslims are a minority, and especially in societies where they are immigrants.


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## cherine

Outsider said:


> A self-identifying Muslim would be someone who publicly declares himself a Muslim, and is recognized as a Muslim by the society at large.


That would be a Muslim. 
As Maha said, there's no such concept in Arabic. Except if we think from the religion point of view, where the distinction is made between a مسلم (Muslim) and a مؤمن (believer, faithful):
 قَالَتِ ٱلأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُواْ وَلَـٰكِن قُولُوۤاْ أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ ٱلإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ
(Quran, 49: 14) سورة الحجرات، الآية 14
 So, again, a "self-identifying Muslim" would still be called a Muslim. 


أصعب قرار said:


> My first explanation left out a important facet of the meaning: the claimant also honestly believes he follows the tenets of Islam.


Exactly, this is a called a مسلم , we -Muslims- don't have a word for it. Unless you want to use expressions like يقول عن نفسه إنه مسلم or يقدِّم/يعِّرف نفسه على أنه مسلم which are made-up and not set expressions, and can also be understood as (he says he is Muslim, but in reality he isn't).

I think you should give us a full sentence to make things clearer. And don't forget it's a requirement (Cf. the forum rule about context  ).


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## Outsider

أصعب قرار said:


> A self-identifying Muslim is simply anyone who claims to be a Muslim, regardless of whether or not they're actually Muslim.





أصعب قرار said:


> My first explanation left out a important facet of the meaning: the claimant also honestly believes he follows the tenets of Islam. Suppose a fundamentalist mullah were to question his piety: he would continue to say he is indeed a Muslim.


Perhaps I misunderstood you initially. Are you trying to distinguish between practicing Muslims and non-practicing Muslims?


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## Outlandish

These two came to my mind:  مسلم باختياره  and مسلم عن قناعة. I read and heard the first one before, and less frequently the second. I wish that others give their opinions about them.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> I think you should give us a full sentence to make things clearer. And don't forget it's a requirement (Cf. the forum rule about context  ).


 Yes, please!

There must have been a reason the author chose to use this phrase.  Why is the person in question referred to as a "self-identifyin Muslim"?  I'm sure we'll be able to come up with a suitable translation if we're given enough context.


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## nado92

Outlandish said:


> These two came to my mind:  مسلم باختياره  and مسلم عن قناعة. I read and heard the first one before, and less frequently the second. I wish that others give their opinions about them.


 			 			self-identifying Muslim".
مسلم واضح الهوية
* مسلم مدرك لهويته 		*


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## أصعب قرار

Here's a full sentence. I explain that, although I am not a Muslim, I cite a verse of the Qur'aan that I believe in and argue this makes me, in some sense, a "Muslim".* After the quote, I go on to say this:

"There may yet be other Quranic passages I believe in, but they easily pale in number to those even the least devout of *self-identifying Muslims* believes."

I can cite more of the article if you want. Perhaps those native speakers who've been exposed to Western concepts would be of the most benefit here, but thanks all of you for trying nonetheless.

(Incidentally, I have no idea on Quranic citation style. The verse I'm using is 5:8.)


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## Outlandish

> "There may yet be other Quranic passages I believe in, but they easily  pale in number to those even the least devout of *self-identifying  Muslims* believes."





> من الممكن أن يكون هناك مقاطع أخرى من القرآن أؤمن بها، لكن عددها ضئيل جداً أمام تلك التى يؤمن بها الأقل التزاما بين من يشيرون لأنفسهم كمسلمين


You can replace  أمام تلك  with مقارنةً بتلك   , and  من يشيرون لأنفسهم كمسلمين  with  من يعرّفون/ يقدمون أنفسهم كمسلمين , or من يعتبرون أنفسهم مسلمين. I go with  .... من يشيرون


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## elroy

Thanks for the context!  I think in this case what you're saying is essentially "those who consider themselves Muslims," so in Arabic you could say كل من يعتبر نفسه مسلمًا.


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## أصعب قرار

Thanks for the answer! Sticking it in my translation right now. I'll remember the context rule for my next thread.


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