# onde é que os compras



## neilclover

Onde é que os compras?

I cannot understand "os compras".
What's the meaning of these words?


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## Vanda

Where do you buy them?
os = them


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## neilclover

Can this sentence be changed like this: onde é que compras-los?
Is it same in any sentence that the object can put before the verb as put after the verb?

Thanks


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## Vanda

No, not  in this case. The conjunction que forces the pronoun to come before the verb : próclise. As we have told you before, pronoun colloquation is a very hard thing to learn in Portuguese.
1





> ) Os pronomes indefinidos e relativos    e as conjunções subordinativas atraem o pronome átono;    para facilitar seu reconhecimento, convém notar que grande parte começa    com *que*:
> 
> 
> Eis o livro do qual *se* falou a noite inteira.
> Procuramos quem* se* interesse por criação      de bicho-da-seda.
> Quer* me* arrependa, quer não, irei lá.


here


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## neilclover

Thanks.I think I have a long way to go!


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## Cipriana

Os replaces the object = them. Where do you buy them?


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## Erick404

Notice that the sentence could be reformulated without "que". But then, when "os" comes after a verb ending in -s, it doesn't become -los, but -nos, and the -s disappears:

*Compra-nos onde?*

I'm quite sure this will sound confusing. I only posted it to show that there are other possibilities (and difficulties).


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## Vanda

> Compra-nos onde?


 Not in this case, ERick. It is: *Compra-os onde*? 
You only use this n before os when the verb ends in m or n or nasal sounds.



> No caso de verbos terminados em *m*, *õe* ou *ão*, ou seja, _sons *nasais*_, os pronomes *o*, *a*, *os*, *as* assumem as formas *no*, *na*, *nos*, *nas*, e o verbo é mantido inalterado. Por exemplo:
> 
> 
> "peguem-os" torna-se "peguem-nos";
> "põe-as" torna-se "põe-nas".


http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocação_pronominal


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## Snipy

neilclover said:


> Onde é que os compras?
> 
> I cannot understand "os compras".
> What's the meaning of these words?



I think you can also say "onde é que (tu) compras eles?"... at least I think so, because my girlfriend never says 'o' nor 'os', for example "vou pegá-lo" becomes "vou pegar ele".
Please someone correct me if I am wrong  .


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## anaczz

Your girlfriend should be brazilian because this is the colloquial way to say it on Brazil but you shouldn't use it in formal speech nor writing.
In European Portuguese they use these pronouns in daily speech.


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## Snipy

anaczz said:


> Your girlfriend should be brazilian because this is the colloquial way to say it on Brazil but you shouldn't use it in formal speech nor writing.
> In European Portuguese they use these pronouns in daily speech.



Yes, she is carioca... the European way comes more natural to me, because it's closer to Italian (prender*lo* = pegá-*lo*)  .


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## Boris i17

Snipy said:


> I think you can also say "onde é que (tu) compras eles?"... at least I think so, because my girlfriend never says 'o' nor 'os', for example "vou pegá-lo" becomes "vou pegar ele".
> Please someone correct me if I am wrong  .



Well, you can say "onde é que tu compras", however you won't see anybody in Brazil using "compras, pegas, corres", only in Portugal or other countries.
"onde é que você compra" would be more appropriate around here. Even in formal writings, these things are becoming unusual. See you!


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## MOC

Boris i17 said:


> Well, you can say "onde é que tu compras", however you won't see *anybody* in Brazil using "compras, pegas, corres", only in Portugal or other countries.
> "onde é que você compra" would be more appropriate around here. Even in formal writings, these things are becoming unusual. See you!



Brazil is a huge country with almost 200 million people.


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## Boris i17

Well, it may be, but have you ever seen anyone talking like this around here? 
I haven't. Unless a Portuguese had come to Brazil. That's what I think, I'm not saying you're wrong. See you!


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## MOC

Yes I have. And actually quite often in a region.

I'm not saying usage of the second person is the most common in Brazil. I'm well aware *most* of the brazilians always use the third person when addressing someone. But even if it was 99% of them, it still wouldn't be everybody.


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## Outsider

Vanda said:


> Not in this case, ERick. It is: *Compra-os onde*?


To agree with the pronoun _tu_, it should be _Compra-*los* onde?_, since _compras_ ends with a consonant. 

This sounds more formal than the original sentence, though. (Bookish, even.)


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## Vanda

Oh my God!!! Claro, Out! Estava tão focada na colocação após a palavra nasal que caí que nem patinho nesta! Que vergonha! Não espalha pra ninguém.
As Out said, the correct form is: *compra-los!

*See, Neil?!Told you so! It is difficult for us, even those of us who knows it eternally can make mistakes on the issue! So, don't worry!


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## SidewaysDan

To correct myself I often repeat it aloud to myself. You should try that Vanda .


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## Istriano

Acho que a forma mais formal é: _Onde você os compra?_
(sem _que_ ou _é que_ que são evitados na escrita formal: _Onde que / Onde é que_)...

Na fala, o mais comum é: _ Onde que você compra (eles)?_
ou  começando com o objeto: _E sapatos, onde (é) que (vo)cê compra?_

O objeto nulo é a forma mais comum na fala: _Onde você compra?
_(Sem _eles _que é a forma mais enfática, e sem _os _que é bem livresco).


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## Macunaíma

Neil, Portuguese has far too many grammar rules but, believe me, you won't need all of them. The first thing you should consider is what variant of the language you want to master and what is your purpose. If you are learning, say, Brazilian Portuguese for business purposes, you won't need to get down to the all the gory details about pronoun placing - stick to the simple rule of placing them before the verb and starting your sentences with them after the verb to appease the conservatives. If you insist on using your pronouns as you learn in grammar books you will make yourself the butt of jokes. Try to work out first what you are looking to achieve and don't put so much effort into learning things that you won't really need at the end of the day.


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## neilclover

Thank you so much ! The purpose of my studying portuguese is to go to Angola for a construction project.I do not know what's kind of variant they use.Could you please tell me now about the language situation in that country?



> stick to the simple rule of placing them before the verb (in any circumstances??) and starting your sentences with them after the verb to appease the conservatives


 
As told from Macunaíma,Could you please tell some examples regarding your suggestions.I can not understand very well.In China there are only European portuguese textbooks available.But I prefer to use você to avoid complicated rules.


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## Macunaíma

In Angola the Portuguese they speak is closer to European Portuguese. You can use _você_ in all variants of the language. The advice I gave you is valid for Brazilian Portuguese, I'm not very much acquainted with how they use the pronouns in Angola - I suppose it's similar to how the Portuguese do, but I'm not sure. All the same, I think it could be a good idea for you to enlarge your vocabulary and develop your understanding of the language first before you tackle object pronoun placing in depth.


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## neilclover

Yes.It really needs lots of practice.From the search result of google,Angolans have been following the standard European Portuguese for more than one hundred years.Therefore,it seems that I have to study European portuguese in order to meet the requirements of my work.Anyway,Thank you so much !


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## Outsider

Macunaíma said:


> You can use _você_ in all variants of the language.


Yes, I agree.

And if you wish to be a little formal, then replace _você_ with _o senhor_, _a senhora_, and so on. Everything else works as with _você_.


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