# IIR Languages: Laldowliani, God's Gift (language?)



## Peter Jansens

I happen to know a woman who was born near the Himalayas and had to flee with her family when the country turned into Pakistan.
She told me her original name was Laldowliani (or Laldawnliene or Laldawnigliani), meaning God's Gift according to her mother.

She has no idea where she lived, what people or region she belonged to, what language she spoke... does anyone recognise the word, please?


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## Qureshpor

Peter, your query appears to be one of those mysteries which only Agatha Christie could have solved, had she been still alive! I have tried searching for the three words you have provided, on the net and I am sure you must have done the same. All that I found is: 

"Just before the sliding door closed Syd heard the answer: "I am *Laldowliani*, gift of the gods". 

I don't know if fdb SaaHib can help you or not. He is one of the experts in the Forum on the etymology of words in several languages. I hope he and others give this thread some thought.


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## Peter Jansens

Qureshpor said:


> Peter, your query appears to be one of those mysteries which only Agatha Christie could have solved, had she been still alive! I have tried searching for the three words you have provided, on the net and I am sure you must have done the same. All that I found is: Just before the sliding door closed Syd heard the answer: "I am *Laldowliani*, gift of the gods.



Well, that's me who wrote that actually, it's on my Facebook page, LOL. And yes, I tried Google, several online dictionaries... etc...


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## Treaty

I don't know any of the languages of Kashmir (her probable homeland) so I just have to guess that it looks like a Tibetan name (_lha_ means god and_ lha-ldan_ is Lhasa, place of Gods). I also think you'd better post it in Etymology or Other Languages sub-forum.


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## Peter Jansens

Thanks for the advice, will do!


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## L'irlandais

Hello,
Pakistan became independant in August 1947, so you're looking for info on a post-war people, that shouldn't be too hard with the wealth of blurb available on-line today.





			
				wiki said:
			
		

> Gilgit–Baltistan is near the Mountains, their Balti dialect, a sub-dialect of Ladakhi.   Azad Kashmir is also on that frontier, I know nothing of those languages.  Then there are half a dozen detached regions, which are more tribal than anything.


 Perhaps with a "Google image search" on each of these different tribe's names, you can photo-fit her appearance to one or other ethnic group.

A long shot, but perhaps more chance of sucess than a name search.


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## asanga

Laldowliani doesn't look Tibeto-Burman. ལྷས་བྱིན་ "gift of the gods" is a well-known Tibetan name. The feminine form would be pronounced _las chin ma_ in Leh Ladakhi, _lasi chi ngo_ in Balti (although Balti would probably use Persian _xuda _for God instead of pagan _la_). Feminine names ending in -i are typical of II languages, not TB.

Baltistan and Ladakh are also deep in the mountains, not just near them, and AFAIK no population displacements took place there during Partition. From the description it sounds like it's probably a Western Pahari or Lahnda language. 

It seems strange that her mother could tell her the original name and its meaning, but not the language, region, or people. Reminds me of the mystery woman found in a Nepalese refugee camp discussed on Language Log:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4619

There were all kinds of erudite suggestions about her origin, but it turned out she was simply from Delhi and some unknown trauma had caused her to forget everything about her past.


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## Wolverine9

If it is indeed an Indo-Iranian language and the meaning given by the mother is correct, then _Lal _could mean "child, dear," a name which is common across northern India, the only problem being it is generally used for boys and not girls.  In addtion, _dowliani _may be a derivative of _deva _"god," in which case you would get a meaning approximating "God's gift."


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## Cilquiestsuens

My one and a half cent contribution.

Laal could be لعل *la3l* meaning jewel...


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## Wolverine9

Cilquiestsuens said:


> My one and a half cent contribution.
> 
> Laal could be لعل *la3l* meaning jewel...



The usage in names, though, is generally _laal _"child, dear" and not _la3l _"ruby."



Peter Jansens said:


> Laldowliani (or Laldawnliene or  Laldawnigliani), meaning God's Gift according to her mother.



The "dawn" portion of the name may represent _daana _"gift, donation," rather than _deva _"god."  The spellings given for the name make it difficult to determine what its underlying meaning and language of origin is.  If the name were transcribed according to the conventions of this forum, perhaps it would be easier to make more sense of it.  I also find it very surprising that her mother knows the name's meaning but is clueless about its linguistic origin.


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## fdb

Yes, Hindi lāl “darling”, from Sanskrit lālya “to be caressed”, according to Turner no. 11030.


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## L'irlandais

asanga said:


> ... From the description it sounds like it's probably a Western Pahari or Lahnda language....


Perhaps Peter might like to follow up one of those leads :
Western Pahari, found around Simla in Himachal Pradesh state. 

Language Profile: Lahnda


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## tonyspeed

Peter Jansens said:


> I happen to know a woman who was born near the Himalayas and had to flee with her family when the country turned into Pakistan.
> She told me her original name was Laldowliani (or Laldawnliene or Laldawnigliani), meaning God's Gift according to her mother.
> 
> She has no idea where she lived, what people or region she belonged to, what language she spoke... does anyone recognise the word, please?



I'm assuming this is her LAST name right? The last name would be more helpful than a first name is some cases.


In any case, there does seem to be a group of people that have this name, but their ancestral lands are nowhere near Pakistan, but rather, Mizoram.  (I am assuming they are not talking about Bangaldesh, which was formerly also a part of Pakistan, because Bangladesh is not exactly near the Himalayas)

See the following pdf containing Laldoliana : http://mizoram.nic.in/bpl/zawlnuam.pdf
There also seems to be a Lal Ram Liani of Mizoram who is a boxer: http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...1_weight-category-aruna-mishra-national-games

The Mizo people tend to look more East Asian, what some call mongoloid, rather than Aryan or Dravidian. This could also be a clue. Maybe her family moved from Mizoram to Pakistan at some time in the past. This would explain not being able to identify the language or the people.


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## Peter Jansens

Wow, what a treasure of leads, thanks. As a matter of fact her family didn't run immediately from Pakistan (a word that was taboo in their family, BTW). Her father, who was in the British military and had married a local woman, was politely asked to leave the country. To give him some extra motivation their house was raided and demolished by an angry mob so they left head over heels. Unfortunately I only know what was told to me, so perhaps I should first ask a bit more...


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## marrish

Peter Jansens said:


> I happen to know a woman who was born near the Himalayas and had to flee with her family when the country turned into Pakistan.
> She told me her original name was Laldowliani (or Laldawnliene or Laldawnigliani), meaning God's Gift according to her mother.
> 
> She has no idea where she lived, what people or region she belonged to, what language she spoke... does anyone recognise the word, please?


It could be Eastern Pakistan located at the foothills of Himalayas (now Bangladesh).

I am convinced that no-one is in the state of forgetting several words from the time of her of his childhood. It can be crucial to determining which region of the Earth she originated from_._


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