# Croatian: Bjelovar, Vukovar



## AndrasBP

Hello, 

I'm curious to know if the ending "-var" in the place names *Bjelovar *and *Vukovar *is actually the Hungarian word "*vár*" (fort, castle).
The first element of the names is Slavic, which might suggest that "vár" was also used in Croatian at some time in history.


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## ajitam

Yes, it is the Hungarian word (also for Daru*var*, and similarly *Varaž*din from _város_). Whether the -var suffix in and of itself would have been productive for Slavic populations, I wouldn't know. I believe the town names you mentioned were magyarized and then retained in Croatian. However, the word _varoš_ does persist.


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## AndrasBP

Thank you for your reply.

The case of Daruvar is interesting because both parts of the name are Hungarian.



ajitam said:


> However, the word _varoš_ does persist.


I've seen _varoš_ used for parts of a town, even down south in Montenegro, where I didn't expect to see any Hungarian influence.
Is _varoš_ actually a part of modern Serbo-Croatian vocabulary?


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## Torontal

In Ottoman Turkish the word _varoş _became a common noun in the 16th century, designating parts/neighborhoods of the town outside the wall.  (originally referring to christian neighborhoods particularily i believe, but i wouldn't put my life on this later thing). I guess it is through Ottoman that the word varoş spread outside the Hungarian influence in the Balkans.


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## jimquk

Apparently the word spread as far as Cyprus: Varosha is the suburb of Famagusta abandoned since the 1974 war:

Varosha, Famagusta - Alchetron, The Free Social Encyclopedia


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## AndrasBP

Torontal said:


> In Ottoman Turkish the word _varoş _became a common noun in the 16th century


Thanks, that's interesting. Does that mean that the Hungarian word spread to all the Ottoman Empire, including present-day Turkey?


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## Torontal

AndrasBP said:


> Thanks, that's interesting. Does that mean that the Hungarian word spread to all the Ottoman Empire, including present-day Turkey?



it became a common noun in Ottoman Turkish in the 16th century referring to a particular type of settlement, it appears in some Ottoman provincial law codes in the European part.

based on the place name datas from the Ottoman tax registers in the first half of the 16th century until the 1550s, i could only find it being used in the European part, Rumeli eyaleti, most of them from present day Bosnia and Serbia, and in a few cases in other parts of it, incl present day Greece in that period.
I've found nothing from the Asian part this time  with one unlikely exception from northeast Turkey, in the Black sea region there was a village called _Varoş _in this period, but due to its distance i have my doubts if it had anything to do with the Hungarian origin word.

Also thanks @jimquk for the data from Cyprus.

Evliya Çelebi in his 17th century travelogue uses the word _varoş _very frequently when he describes town parts, irrespective to which corner of the Empire they were. Like when talking about the castle of Basra (Iraq), he mentioned the names of the castle gates too, one of which was called _Varoş Cisri kapusu _(Gate of the Suburb Bridge) according to him...

Anyway the word _varoş _is still used and alive in modern Turkish, meaning "outskirt, suburb" ("peremkerület, külváros" a török-magyar szótárakban  ).


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## Perseas

jimquk said:


> Apparently the word spread as far as Cyprus: Varosha is the suburb of Famagusta abandoned since the 1974 war:
> 
> Varosha, Famagusta - Alchetron, The Free Social Encyclopedia


It's interesting though that, although "Βαρώσια" has its roots in the Turkish "varoş", Turkish has another name ("Maraş") for this suburb. I don't know if "Maraş" and  "varoş"/"vár" are connected somehow.

Edit:
Also, in Trikala (Thessaly) a part of the town is called "Varousi" (Βαρούσι).


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## Torontal

Perseas said:


> It's interesting though that, although "Βαρώσια" has its roots in the Turkish "varoş", Turkish has another name ("Maraş") for this suburb. I don't know if "Maraş" and  "varoş"/"vár" are connected somehow.
> 
> Edit:
> Also, in Trikala (Thessaly) a part of the town is called "Varousi" (Βαρούσι).



As i could check the original Ottoman name of it was also Varoş (Varoş-ı Kal'a-i Magosa= Suburb of Magosa Castle in a 1586 register) and also used in 19th century. i don't know how it became Maraş, was it just a local "corruption" of the name or for some other reason (like newcomers from Maraş in Anatolia)?


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## danielstan

Interesting, Romanian _*oraș *_("city") is loaned from Hungarian _város_.
Some Transylvanian cities, with their Hungarian name containing the _vár_ particle, have their Romanian name with '_or_'/'_ora_' correspondent:
_Temesvár > Timișoara
Segesvár > Seghișoara or Sighișoara
Földvár > Feldioara
Udvárhély > Odorhei
Nagy-Várod > Oradea Mare_

I am not sure of it, but I read somewhere that in medieval Hungarian the group of sounds like '_va_' where pronounced /_wa_/.
Anybody can confirm/infirm my understanding?


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## Torontal

Small correction:
Udv*a*rh*e*ly
Nagyvár*a*d

Yes i read there was originally no "v" in Hungarian. In Old Hungarian there was a β voiced bilabial fricative and thats why Romanian substituted this sound with _o_ and not _v_ (Romanian always had "v", so if the Hungarian word had already contained the "v" sound, Romanian could also loan them with "v").

The β > v change started apparently in western Hungarian dialects around the turn of 12-13th century and it spread slowly to the east, and some eastern Hungarian variants preserved the sound even in the 16-17th century, some Csángó dialects still have it.


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## AndrasBP

danielstan said:


> Udvárhély > Odorhei


"Udvarhely" does not actually contain the word "vár", it's composed of "udvar" (from Slavic _dvor _= court, courtyard) + "hely" (= place).


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## herodotush

The last Croatian king, Petar Svačić, died without an heir in 1102. Hungarian kings ruled until 1527, and after that, they ruled as part of the Habsburg Empire until 1918. Their language and culture had little influence (except for food) and few words were borrowed. But the word for 'city' is an important word and obviously spread throughout the region. Towns could be granted a certain status by Hungarian kings and it is logical to assume they gave names to them at those times.

'Var' has a possible, more distant root here, related to the PIE uer or gher, meaning enclosure, fort, town. Slavic 'grad', 'gorod' (city, fortress), places for growing, 'garden', 'yard', 'vrt' (garden) and 'vinograd' (vineyard) in SC, military defense, 'guard', 'war', 'wehr' (German 'defense'), 'guerra' (Italian war), 'cohort' 'hortus', security 'guarantee', 'warranty', the center of a fort, 'court' (making 'courtyard' a sort of redundancy). Either through borrowing or a common (I realize that nostratics is a touchy subject), but look at Hungarian 'mi' we, the same as in the Slavic languages. To go even farther out, Turkic nomadic round tent dwelling 'yurt' and Mongolian 'ger' meaning home.


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## Torontal

_^_


> 'Var' has a possible, more distant root here, related to the PIE uer or gher, meaning enclosure, fort, town.


That is certain  _vár _is an Iranian origin loanword in Hungarian, though the exact source language is unknown (Avestan _vāra_-, Middle Persian _war_). Then the word_ város _was derived from it in Hungarian (_vár+(V)s_ adjective-forming suffix). So this later word could be originally an adjective, but it early on became a noun in the Old Hungarian period.


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## francisgranada

I'd like to add for complexity, that in some Slovakian dialects "town" or "city" is  _varoš_. The standard Slovak term is _mesto_, which coincides with the Czech _město _and Polish _miasto _(originally meaning rather "place [of settlement]".

The Hungarian word _város _can be interpreted as a "settlement built _around _a castle (= _vár_)" that was a typical medieval concept of towns (in the Kingdom of Hungary and elsewhere).

For curiosity, it's interesting to notice that in  Germanic languages we have _Burg_, _bourgh_, _borough, etc_ ... (=castle), but also _stadt _(=place) e.g. in some German toponyms (for example _Neustadt_). At the same time, in Hungarian, we also find some toponyms like _Újhely _(literally "new place") ...


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## jimquk

And German Stadt is cognate with English "stead", as in Newstead (a couple of small villages in the UK.
From the almost forgotten stead, we have of course "instead of" (in the place of), and "steady" (keeping to its place, firm).


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## danielstan

In Bessarabia (Republic of Moldova) there is a city Orhei (< _vár + hely_). 
Another Moldovan city with Hungarian etymology is Chișinău (< _kis + jenő_).
As I read on some wikipedia articles, hypothetically the Moldovan rulers have settled Szekler soldiers in this area to defend the border on Dniester river against Tartar invasions.


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## bibax

I always thought that the *-var* in Vukovar is a Slavic word meaning 'boil' or figuratively 'spring', where water (mostly hot but not necessarily) rises and "boils", like in Czech words pivo*var* (beer brewery), liho*var* (distillery), Bud*var* (the genuine Czech Budweißer beer brand) or Karlovy *Vary* (= Charles' Springs aka Karlsbad; there is also a village named Vary in Podkarpatská Rus/Kárpátalja). At least *Vukovar* sounds very Slavic to me (meaning wolf spring, like Wolf Springs in Alabama), similarly *Bjelovar* (like White Springs, Florida).

*Vukovar* would be a nice brand name of beer (like Budvar, Ostravar, Bukovar, Svatovar, Hostivar, ...). It makes my mouth water.


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## Torontal

In the case of Vukovar and Daruvar the Hungarian origin of the _vár _seems to be clear, Vukovar's first mention in a Latin charter in the 13th century is actually_ *castrum* Walkow_, so clearly referring to a Walkow castle (=vár). Bjelovar might be more tricky, its earliest mentions in the 15th century are in the forms of _Belublathya, Belowarcz, Beloblatje, Beloblatye, _and the mention of a fort there is even later. So it may not related to our_ vár _word at all. But i wonder what do @AndrasBP and @francisgranada think about the origin of its name considering this article from the varak.hu: Belovár , Bélavár - Rácsa, Rača as both of you can speak Hungarian and Slavic languages, do you agree with its conclusion that it is fully Slavic origin?


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## AndrasBP

Torontal said:


> But i wonder what do @AndrasBP and @francisgranada think about the origin of its name considering this article from the varak.hu: Belovár , Bélavár - Rácsa, Rača as both of you can speak Hungarian and Slavic languages, do you agree with its conclusion that it is fully Slavic origin?


My knowledge of modern Russian doesn't help me at all to determine the origin of a medieval name. After reading the article, I feel I'm none the wiser. The relation between "Belowrcz" (?), "Beloblatje" and "Belovar" appears to be unclear.



danielstan said:


> Another Moldovan city with Hungarian etymology is Chișinău (< _kis + jenő_).


The etymology of Chișinău is uncertain. From what I've read about it in Hungarian, I can say the Hungarian origin of the name is disputed, but not totally refuted.


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## francisgranada

Torontal said:


> ... Bjelovar might be more tricky, its earliest mentions in the 15th century are in the forms of _Belublathya, Belowarcz, Beloblatje, Beloblatye, _and the mention of a fort there is even later. So it may not related to our_ vár _word at all ...


Let's suppose that the first part of the name (_belo-, bjelo-, belu-_ ...) refers to the Slavic _bělъ _(=white), and not to the Hungarian name _Béla_. In this case the vowel -*o*- (in _bel*o*-_, ...) seems to be a prothetic vowel like e.g. n Russan place names _Krasn*o*jarsk_, _Volg*o*grad_, etc... (i.e. it is not the grammatical neutrum _bělo _of the adjective _bělъ_)_ ._

As to the second part (-_var_):
1. _Beloblatje, Beloblatye: _these forms can be clearly interpreted as "white muddy place" (_blato, błoto, boloto_ ... in modern Slavic languages means _mud_).
2. _Belowrcz, Belowarcz: _I have the impression that this is a misspelling. I can imagine *_Belowrc*h* _instead, which could mean "white hill/peak/mount" (_vrch, wierch, verch_ ...in Slavic languages means _hill/peak/mount_).
3. _Belovar, Bjelovar_: the explanation (suggested in the article Belovár , Bélavár - Rácsa, Rača) _var < moč-*v*ar_ is for me not convincing.  In Slavic languages _močar, močiar,_ _moczarz(y) _... means a kind of _mud, _but I cannot find any  etymological reason for it's abbreviation into _-*v*ar.  
_
(As to _Karlovy Vary_, proposed by Bibax (#18), here _Vary_ is in plural and it does not mean _mud_. For curiosity, when was the toponym _Karlovy Vary_, or whatever place name containing _vary_, documented for the first time in Czech or in whichever Slavic language?)

*** However, e.g. _Beograd _derives probably [I'm not sure] from a former _Belgrad_, not _Be*lo*grad. _Thus, at least in theory, we could expect forms like _Belvar _or _Bjelvar_ (instead of _Bel*o*var_, _Bjel*o*var_) in mondern southern Slavic_._ On the other hand, in case of the fully Hungarian origin, i.e. _Béla+vár_, the expected Slavic form should be rather _Bel*a*var_.  According to your article, such form is indeed documented (_Bellavar, Bellawar_) in the neighborhood ...


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## AndrasBP

francisgranada said:


> *** However, e.g. _Beograd _derives probably [I'm not sure] from a former _Belgrad_, not _Be*lo*grad._


Yes, that's probably right. There's a *Belgorod *in Russia, too.



francisgranada said:


> Thus, at least in theory, we could expect forms like _Belvar _or _Bjelvar_ (instead of _Bel*o*var_, _Bjel*o*var_) in mondern southern Slavic_._


In Serbo-Croatian, I believe it would be *Beovar*, as the /l/ is vocalized before consonants and word-finally.


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## danielstan

Confirmation:
In Transylvania the modern city Alba Iulia (a.k.a. Gyula*fehér*vár, *Weissen*burg) had the medieval Romanian name *Băl*grad (< Slavic _bělъ + grad)_,
all these names meaning more or less 'white fortress (of Iulius)'.

From another hand, the Polish city Białogard - Wikipedia (pronounced  [bʲaˈwɔɡart])  seems to have a similar phonetic evolution with Beograd.


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## bibax

Even more tricky is *Solivar*, now a part of Prešov/Eperjes, Slovakia. Solivar means 'salt boilery or boiling house', a sófőzőház in Hungarian (a place where solanka [= brine, sósvíz] is boiled in order to extract salt; similar nouns: pivovar, lihovar, etc.).

However, the Hungarian name is Sóvár (a salt castle, written Soovar in the past) and not Sófőző (other related placenames: Tóth Sóvár, Németh Sóvár/Šváby, Sóbánya/Soľná baňa and even Soľnohrad, Salzburg in German).

Solivar/Sóvár was famous for its salt mine and boilery, so what meaning of the -var part is original: "főző" vagy "vár".

And just for the record, one more -var castle: the castle *Mydlovar* in Central Bohemia (meaning "soap boilery", mý-dlo means soap < mý-ti = to wash). Nobody would claim that the part -var is from Hungarian "vár" (a soap castle), although Mydlovar is a castle (now in ruins).


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## francisgranada

bibax said:


> Solivar was famous for its salt mine and boilery, so what meaning of the -var part is original: "főző" vagy *or*  "vár".


According to this article (in Slovak):

1223 - Béla 4th (king of Hungary) donated _Sópotok _together _with _"Soľný hrad" (i.e. _Sóvár, _"salt castle") to
Bohumil and Herman Chypkáczy.
...
1970 - The villages _Soľnohrad _("salt castle"), _Soľná_ baňa and _Šváby _were (administratively) united under the name _Solivar _ ("salt boilery")

Even if the informations on the cited  site are not precise enough, they suggest that the Slovak name _Solivar _("salt boilery") is a secondary/later formation. 





AndrasBP said:


> In Serbo-Croatian, I believe it would be *Beovar*, as the /l/ is vocalized before consonants and word-finally.


You are right, however I don't know if this is valid for all the variants/dialects of Serbian and Croatian. For curiosity, the actual name is _Bjelovar_, i.e. neither _Belovar _nor _Beovar _...

Plus, I've found that near _Bjelovar _there is a hill/mount which today has the name _*Bilo*gora _(supposedly "white mount"). This seems to confirm my intuition (post #21) about the origin of _Belowrcz_, one of the attested historical names of  _Bjelovar/Bélavár. _An other question is, why not _*Bjelo*gora_?_ ...
_
Well, now we have a _white hill _(Belowrcz, Bilogora), a _white muddy place_ (Beloblatje, Beloblatye), the _castle of Béla_  (Bélavár), some _place names _in the neighborhood _with -a-_ and _double -ll-_ (Bellavar/Bellawar) and _"l" resulting in "o"_  in other toponyms (Beograd) ...  However, in my opinion, the main linguistic "problem" is still the Serbian/Croatian (southern Slavic) historical meaning/usage of _*-var*_ in place names.


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## Zec

The discrepancies in these names are due to different dialects, the region of Bjelovar is a place where a number of them meets. The Croatian equivalent of _Beograd_ would be/is _Biograd_ (situated in northern Dalmatia, near Zadar), which was also spelled _Belgrad_ in medieval documents.

The difference between the outcomes of "white fortress" and other town names is because, for whatever reason, "white fortress" is a noun phrase which commonly merged into one word ("new fortress", i.e. Russian _Novgorod_, Croatian _Novigrad_ is another such a case). Other names are a compound with a linking vowel -o-.


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