# Say in a roundabout way



## 810senior

Hello everyone.
I wonder how every language expresses the way of saying in a roundabout manner and whether each of them have a set idiom like English _to beat around the bush_.

Let me start with Japanese.
Japanese: *遠回し*に言うtoomawashi-ni i-u(say in a *roundabout *way)
Vocabulary
_toomawashi_: roundabout, circuitous; _too_(from _too-i_; far-off, distant) + mawash-i(from _mawas-u_; to make it revolve or rotate).
_-ni_: functions as an adverbial affix.
_i-u_: to say, to talk.


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## DearPrudence

In *French*, we say:
"*tourner autour du pot*" (literally: _turn/go round the pot_)


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## Red Arrow

In Dutch:* rond de pot draaien* (literally: _turning around the pot_)


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## apmoy70

Greek:

*«Υπεκφεύγω»* [ipekˈfevɣo] < Classical v. *«ὑπεκφεύγω» hŭpĕkpʰeú̯gō* --> _to flee away, escape_ (in MoGr is used only in the sense of saying something in a roundabout manner) < compound; prefix, adverb, and preposition *«ὑπό» hŭpó* & *«ὕπο» húpŏ* --> _under, underneath_ (PIE *upo- _below, under_ cf Skt. उप (upa), _above_, Av. upa, _towards, near_, Lat. sub) + preposition, and adverb *«ἐκ» ĕk* --> _out_ (PIE *h₁eǵʰ-s/*h₁eḱ-s- _out_ cf Lat. ex/ex-, Lith. iš-) + Classical v. *«φεύγω» pʰeú̯gō* (PIE *bʰeu̯g- _to flee_ cf Lat. fugere > It. fuggire, Fr. fuir/fuguer, Sp. huir, Por. fugir, Rom. fugire; Lith. (adj.) baugštus, _fearful, shy_, baukštus, _easily frightened_).

Noun: *«Υπεκφυγή»* [ipekfiˈʝi] (fem.).

Idiomatic expressions:

(1) *«Μασάω/μασώ τα λόγια μου»* [maˈsa.o/maˈso ta ˈloʝa mu]--> _to chew my words_.

The MoGr verb is *«μασάω/μασώ»* [maˈsa.o] (uncontracted)/[maˈso] (contracted) < Classical deponent v. *«μασάομαι/μασῶμαι» măsắŏmai̯ *(uncontracted)/*măsômai̯* (contracted) --> _to chew, bite_ (note that in MoGr the verb is active, while in the ancient language it's in mediopassive voice); its etymology is obscure.

(2) *«Το φέρνω γύρω-γύρω»* [to ˈferno ˈʝiɾo ˈʝiɾo] --> _to carry it round-round_

The MoGr verb is *«φέρνω»* [ˈferno] --> _to carry/carry off, provide, bear_ < Classical v. *«φέρω» pʰérō* (PIE *bʰer- _to bear, carry_ cf Skt. भरति (bharati), _to carry_, Lat. ferre, Proto-Germanic *beraną > Ger. ge_bären_, Eng. bear, Dt. baren,  Swe. bära, Isl./Nor. (Nynorsk) bera, D./Nor. (Bokmål) bære; Proto-Slavic *bьrati > Rus. брать, Ukr. брати, Cz. brát, Svk. brať, Pol. brać, OCS бьрати > BCS brati/брати, Slo. brati, Bul. бера).

MoGr adv. *«γύρω»* [ˈʝiɾo] --> _round/around_ < Byz.Gr. adverbialised accus. of the Classical nominal *«γῡρός» gūrós* --> _round, curved_ (with unclear etymology, Beekes sees a link with PIE *guH- _curved_).


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## ger4

German:

_um den heißen Brei herumreden_: to beat around the bush
_um... herum-_ : around
_den heißen Brei_ : the hot porridge (accusative)
_reden_ : to talk
--> lit. "to talk around the hot porridge"

_(vom Thema)* abschweifen_ : to go off at (on) a tangent, to digress,  to get off the point
_vom Thema_ : off the topic
_abschweifen_ : to digress
--> lit.: "to digress (off the topic)"

* can be added but isn't necessary as the verb abschweifen in itself means 'to digress'

_etwas durch die Blume sagen_ : to say something in a roundabout way**
_etwas_ : something
_durch_ : through
_die Blume_ : the flower
_sagen_ : to say
--> lit: "to say something through the flower"

** In some dictionaries it is translated as 'to say something in a roundabout way' but I think there is another nuance. People talk "through the flower" if they try to avoid being confrontative and too direct, i.e. they try to make something sound 'as beautiful as a flower'. This is sometimes regarded as 'diplomatic', sometimes as 'dishonest' (or both). In any case, it is an indirect way to say something.


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## Dymn

*Catalan*:

"To beat around the bush"
_anar amb mitges tintes _- "to go with half inks" (I'm not sure if it's totally equivalent though)
_fugir d'estudi _- "to avoid study" (when you willingly avoid a controversial topic you've been asked about and talk about anything else)
_divagar _- _vagar _"to wander"

Antonym: "To get to the point"
_anar al gra - _"to go to the grain"

"Difficult to understand, confusing"
_enrevessat _- "in-back-ed"?

*Spanish*:

"To beat around the bush"
_andarse por las ramas - _"walk around the branches"
_irse por los cerros de Úbeda - _"go around the hills of Úbeda" (Úbeda being a city in Andalusia)
_divagar _- see above

Antonym: "To get to the point"
_ir al grano - _see above

"Difficult to understand, confusing"
_enrevesado - _see above


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## Red Arrow

Holger2014 said:


> _(vom Thema)* abschweifen_ : to go off at (on) a tangent, to digress,  to get off the point
> 
> (...)
> 
> _etwas durch die Blume sagen_ : to say something in a roundabout way**


Those exist in Dutch as well.

*(van het onderwerp) afwijken
iets verbloemen* (to make something ''flowerish'', to euphemize something)


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## 810senior

Holger2014 said:


> _(vom Thema)* abschweifen_ : to go off at (on) a tangent, to digress,  to get off the point
> _vom Thema_ : off the topic
> _abschweifen_ : to digress
> --> lit.: "to digress (off the topic)"



For that sense, in Japanese, we say _wakimichi-ni soreru_(to turn to a bypath, meaning to digress) or _hanashi-ga dassen suru_(to run off rails, meaning to get off the topic).


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## sound shift

Traditionally, in British English" "to beat *about *the bush" (see Google Ngram Viewer).
"To go round the houses" also comes to mind, but I am not sure that we could call it a set idiom.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In French, a couple of antonymic idioms for "tourner autour du pot" are "parler sans ambages" and "ne pas y aller par quatre chemins". I don't think "[Il parle] avec ambages" or "[Il y va] par quatre chemins" (in the affirmative) are expressions, though (as far as I know).


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## Messquito

In Chinese, there are:
拐彎抹角 (lit. to turn around the corner)
繞/兜圈子 (lit. to go around in a circle)
閃爍其詞 (lit. make the words flicker (so it's vague)) (this one is usually linked with "being guilty")
旁敲側擊 (lit. to hit (the topic) from the side)
東扯西扯/東拉西扯 (lit. draw (the topic) to the east and then to the west)


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

"To go round Robin Hood's barn"


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## twinklestar

Holger2014 said:


> German:
> 
> _um den heißen Brei herumreden_: to beat around the bush
> _um... herum-_ : around
> _den heißen Brei_ : the hot porridge (accusative)
> _reden_ : to talk
> --> lit. "to talk around the hot porridge"



Hi Holger,

Would you please explain why "talk around the hot porridge" means say in roundabout way?

Does it means people don't talk about the issue they concern but talk about food to avoid being too direct?

And why is "Brei" in this expression instead of "Kartoffel" (potato) or any other food, which seems more common in German food? Is it explainable?

I guess porridge is not very common in German food. Correct?

Thank you!

EDIT: A moderator has voluntarily resumed this post I deleted myself. Holger and other forumites have answered the question of mine here if any other people are interested in the eytmology of this German idiom.

Thank you, Mod. And sorry for the possible confusion, everyone.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Idioms are idioms! Why do we say in English "What's that got to do with the price of eggs?" instead of "...with the price of bread?" to mean "Stop trying to change the subject!" (In French, "noyer le poisson" - "to drown the fish" - means this.)


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## bearded

In Italian, there are several possible ways to translate ''to beat around the bush''.  The most common one is perhaps
_menare il can per l'aia_
(literally 'to lead the dog around the farmyard').


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## DerFrosch

Holger2014 said:


> _um den heißen Brei herumreden_: to beat around the bush
> _um... herum-_ : around
> _den heißen Brei_ : the hot porridge (accusative)
> _reden_ : to talk
> --> lit. "to talk around the hot porridge"



The metaphor of the hot porridge can be found in Swedish too. There are some slight variations of the expression, the most common being "_gå som katten kring het gröt_", which literally means "walk like the cat around hot porridge".

I haven't been able to find a source to confirm it, but surely the Swedish expression has to be a result of German influence - I understand that the cat is included in some variations of the German idiom.


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## Frieder

Red Arrow :D said:


> *iets verbloemen* (to make something ''flowerish'', to euphemize something)



In German we have the antonym "unverblümt" (lit. _without flowers_) meaning forthright/outspoken.


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## Red Arrow

Frieder said:


> In German we have the antonym "unverblümt" (lit. _without flowers_) meaning forthright/outspoken.


In Dutch that would be *onverbloemd*


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## Karton Realista

Polish:
*Owijać w bawełnę - *to roll around with cotton


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## ThomasK

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> Idioms are idioms! Why do we say in English "What's that got to do with the price of eggs?" instead of "...with the price of bread?" to mean "Stop trying to change the subject!" (In French, "noyer le poisson" - "to drown the fish" - means this.)


I don't quite agree: idioms or expressions have some background and from time to time it can be useful or quite informative or fun to know about that, for instance in order to remember it better.

"Brei"/ Dutch "brij" is something like "mash", and I could imagine a cat or dog being hungry, coming closer but then walking around it to see from some disqtance whether one part is not cooler.

As for beating around the bush, it might be nice to know this: "In bird hunts some of the participants roused the birds by beating the bushes and enabling others, to use a much later phrase, to 'cut to the chase' and catch the quarry in nets."

Then main thing is: there is a very plausible explanation in this case - and it can be interesting or useful...


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## ger4

Messquito said:


> In Chinese, there are:
> [...]
> 東扯西扯/東拉西扯 (lit. draw (the topic) to the east and then to the west)


This is interesting. Can 東西 'east-west' symbolize something like an unspecified area? (I'm not sure but I think 'east-west' can also be a metaphor for an unspecified thing, 'stuff' or '(unspecified) person' in Chinese. Is that right?)


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## 810senior

Messquito said:


> 東扯西扯/東拉西扯 (lit. draw (the topic) to the east and then to the west)


I can recall 東奔西走_touhon-seisou_(rush to east and run to west) in it, which means to bestir oneself hurriedly and busily.

@Holger2014, personally I think that there's no specific reason to use east-west for the metaphor(or as other intentions): it just sounds to me like both of them are separated so far away.


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## Messquito

Holger2014 said:


> This is interesting. Can 東西 'east-west' symbolize something like an unspecified area? (I'm not sure but I think 'east-west' can also be a metaphor for an unspecified thing, 'stuff' or '(unspecified) person' in Chinese. Is that right?)


東西 means "things" or "east and west", but doesn't refer to an unspecified area.


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## ger4

@810senior , @Messquito
Thanks for your replies! (My question was a bit off-topic anyway)


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## 123xyz

Macedonian:

*зборува/каже одоколу - *lit. speak/say from-around


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