# Living well is the best revenge.



## briceman

Hello all, first post and want to say what a great resource for language learners! Thanks in advance! Salamat po!

I am learning Tagalog. I have been using the Google translator (WordMonkey frontend) as a trans/backtrans resource. I know it has problems, but it is impressive nonetheless.

*I'm interested in the "best" way to translate this quote into Tagalog. An idiomatic expression would be great if one exists. I am mostly interested in word (root) choice, not the affixes. I'll get the affix system down in time, but right now I'm trying to get a "feel" for the language -- the way native speakers think and describe the world.
*
Eng. --> Tag. "Living well is the best revenge." (-George Herbert ~1620AD)

Google treats the "well" as if it were "also" so I rewrote the english a couple of different ways:

B: "to live well is the best revenge"
--> mabuhay ng maayos ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti

C: "best living is the best revenge"
--> pinakamahusay na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti

*So far C is the best google can do. It has a nice double pinakamahusay which might sound good to native ears. Comments on that?*

But doing my own backtrans with the Leo dictionary makes me doubt the choice of husay. This is "best" is the sense of record breaking. Wrong sense. 

Leo suggests two alternates: **Pinakamamabuti. But I'm guessing this carries overtones of "goodness" which would clash with the idea of revenge in the quote -- in the second "best" of C. **Pinakamagaling. This seems like the winner. Galing: merit, perfection, excellence.

So my hand-tweaked google trans is:

*"Living well is the best revenge."
--> pinakamagaling na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamagaling na paghihiganti

How does this sound to **native** speakers out there?*

One issue with translating this quote is that the English phrase "living well" is an understatement in this contex. Merely living well is not what the quote recommends. One should live life to the fullest and forget the enemy. In other words, the quote reads (to my ears), "Living WELL! is the best revenge." The emphasis is on directing one's energies away from revenge and towards living well.

-briceman


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## niernier

Hello briceman,

You have pretty good initial translation, with no grammar inconsistencies.



> B: "to live well is the best revenge"
> --> "Ang mabuhay ng maayos ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti"


It is correct, I have nothing against this one but do you mind if I suggest:

Ang mabuhay ng matiwasay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti.
Mahusay or maayos will do, but as for me, matiwasay seems to be the winner adjective. It depicts peaceful living, with no worries, hatred or anything connected to revenge unlike mahusay or maayos which simply suggests 'good life'.

Or

Ang mabuhay ng matiwasay ay ang pinakaangkop na paghihiganti.
but pinakaangkop means "most appropriate" so it deviates a little from 'best'



> C. "best living is the best revenge"
> --> pinakamahusay na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti


It is acceptable but I do not recommend repeating a lengthy word pi-na-ka-ma-hu-say(6 syllables) in the same sentence. For the sake of writing style, you may choose a different adjective synonymous to it.

Ang pinakamatiwasay na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti.



> *"Living well is the best revenge."
> --> pinakamagaling na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamagaling na paghihiganti*


Again, I  would like to reiterate that if there is an alternative adjective, use it.

'well' is not in its superlative form, correct? Then in Tagalog you say:
*Ang pamumuhay ng matiwasay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti.

*So in the end, I suggest matiwasay and mahusay as my own choice of adjectives for this translation. Magaling is not a suitable adjective to describe pamumuhay. Magaling na paghihiganti, made me also think twice but I think it is acceptable. Magaling is usually used to mean 'excellent' in terms of skills or field of expertise, or a job well done.


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## briceman

niernier said:


> Hello briceman,
> 
> You have pretty good initial translation, with no grammar inconsistencies.



niernier, salamat po for your expertise! Very very helpful (both of your replies)!

I cannot take credit for the grammar... that was the google Filipino-English translator. I often use it to get first cut translations and also to check for backtrans consistency. It is surprisingly good for a machine, but it has no clue about shades of meaning. 

(If you are unfamiliar with it and curious you can install the "WordMonkey" translator widget on your iGoogle page. This is a nicer interface which allows you to swap directions and texts with a single click of the "to" between the language selectors. Regular google trans is at translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#tl|en|salamat )

The superlatives also came out of the machine translation, especially when I used "best living is best revenge" as the input. The sense of "living well" in the original quote comes very close to a superlative imho as a native speaker.

And thanks for the input about repetition of big words. Tagalog is very fond of repetition, but I'll guess the fondness goes away after about 3 syllables. 

I read somewhere that Tagalog poetry and literary prose are fond of "terminal rhyme". Can you give me a couple of pointers on the use of rhyme in Tagalog prose/poetry? IF you have time, of course!

- Is it ultimate, penultimate, or both?
- How exact does the rhyme have to be for good effect? For example, can all terminal dipthongs be considered to rhyme (ie, all -*y or all -*w)?
- Or perhaps rhythm is more important than exact rhyme? Accent patterns?

I'm trying to get a copy of Rolando Tinio's book, A Trick of Mirrors, but it is almost impossible to find in this hemisphere at a reasonable price. A Filipino bookseller in California is going to a Manila book fair and may have copies when he comes back...

Is there a Filipino online bookstore (.com.ph) that might carry Tinio's Shakespeare translations? I've had no luck with Google from the US -- I think it filters the results too much by region and language. I can't find any bookstore sites beyond the National Bookstore and another one I forget now.

Salamat po!
-brice


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## Sverre

niernier said:


> Then in Tagalog you say:
> *Ang pamumuhay ng matiwasay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti.
> 
> *So in the end, I suggest matiwasay and mahusay as my own choice of adjectives for this translation. Magaling is not a suitable adjective to describe pamumuhay. Magaling na paghihiganti, made me also think twice but I think it is acceptable. Magaling is usually used to mean 'excellent' in terms of skills or field of expertise, or a job well done.



Another suitable adjective would be "Mainam".

This one's a great translation. "Magaling" seems to be used a lot and it's more pleasant to hear *classic words *back again like "Matiwasay" or "Mahusay" to fit *classic quotations*.


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## briceman

Sverre said:


> Another suitable adjective would be "Mainam".
> 
> This one's a great translation. "Magaling" seems to be used a lot and it's more pleasant to hear *classic words *back again like "Matiwasay" or "Mahusay" to fit *classic quotations*.



I like the way you think! I will definitely take that approach when I write the speech I need to write (still several months away...)

Salamat po!
-brice


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## DotterKat

*"Living well is the best revenge.*...Merely living well is not what the quote recommends. One should live life to the fullest and forget the enemy. In other words, the quote reads (to my ears), "Living WELL! is the best revenge."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In addition to what has already been suggested, one might also say "*Ang marangyang pamumuhay ay ang kasukdulan ng paghihiganti.*" (Living in the height of luxury is the best revenge).  However, this emphasizes more the material advantages one has over another and not so much the carefree  disregard for the other person one is trying to lord over. To denote both material abundance and an insouciant lifestyle, I would suggest : *"Ang marangya at mapayapang pamumuhay ay ang kasukdulan ng paghihiganti." *(A luxurious and peaceful lifestyle is the best revenge.)

A less vindictive (and more poetic) variation would be *"Ang mamuhay ng mabuti ay ang pinakamatamis na paghihiganti."* (To live well is the sweetest revenge)


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## briceman

Salamat po to you all!

The poetic and idiomatic ways of saying things... that's what I want to understand most. Every little bit of idiomatic and poetic tagalog will help me get a feel for the Tagalog world-view. When I get there I will be able to craft my own expressions using the accepted and familiar spices of Filipino life. When I first tasted tamarind soup base I loved it. If I want to make a special chicken noodle soup for a sick Filipino friend I might try adding some tamarind base to give it a home feeling, even though I know that is not the "right" way. I'm not Filipino, I just like being creative.

Thanks for all your help so far!
-brice


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## niernier

That is so sweet of you briceman. I see that you are very interested with Tagalog poetry so if you are still on it, you may want to read this book, entitled Tagalog Poetry, 1570-1898: Tradition and Influences in its Development. I think your question on terminal rhyme is answered on page 8.  I am sorry that I am not very familiar with Tagalog poetry so all I can do for now is give you a resource material to read.


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## mataripis

briceman said:


> Hello all, first post and want to say what a great resource for language learners! Thanks in advance! Salamat po!
> 
> I am learning Tagalog. I have been using the Google translator (WordMonkey frontend) as a trans/backtrans resource. I know it has problems, but it is impressive nonetheless.
> 
> *I'm interested in the "best" way to translate this quote into Tagalog. An idiomatic expression would be great if one exists. I am mostly interested in word (root) choice, not the affixes. I'll get the affix system down in time, but right now I'm trying to get a "feel" for the language -- the way native speakers think and describe the world.
> *
> Eng. --> Tag. "Living well is the best revenge." (-George Herbert ~1620AD)
> 
> Google treats the "well" as if it were "also" so I rewrote the english a couple of different ways:
> 
> B: "to live well is the best revenge"
> --> mabuhay ng maayos ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti
> 
> C: "best living is the best revenge"
> --> pinakamahusay na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamahusay na paghihiganti
> 
> *So far C is the best google can do. It has a nice double pinakamahusay which might sound good to native ears. Comments on that?*
> 
> But doing my own backtrans with the Leo dictionary makes me doubt the choice of husay. This is "best" is the sense of record breaking. Wrong sense.
> 
> Leo suggests two alternates: **Pinakamamabuti. But I'm guessing this carries overtones of "goodness" which would clash with the idea of revenge in the quote -- in the second "best" of C. **Pinakamagaling. This seems like the winner. Galing: merit, perfection, excellence.
> 
> So my hand-tweaked google trans is:
> 
> *"Living well is the best revenge."
> --> pinakamagaling na pamumuhay ay ang pinakamagaling na paghihiganti
> 
> How does this sound to **native** speakers out there?*
> 
> One issue with translating this quote is that the English phrase "living well" is an understatement in this contex. Merely living well is not what the quote recommends. One should live life to the fullest and forget the enemy. In other words, the quote reads (to my ears), "Living WELL! is the best revenge." The emphasis is on directing one's energies away from revenge and towards living well.
> 
> -briceman


Tagalog*Ang mabuhay ng mariwasa ay sapat na tugon sa lupit ng tadhana)*  I hope this is correct.I don't use "Paghihiganti" for "revenge". Instead i prefer the word " Tugon" (the answer/the needed reply)   then add "Sa lupit ng Tadhana" ( the unforgiving scenes or events)


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