# Dir, der...



## Luminista

Iyi günler.

This is my first message here!

I've browssed many threads in turkish section and a lot talk about "dir, der". Actually I don't understand when is it an obligation to use this prefixe?

Is this sentence correct :  *Araba mavidir* ? 
Or is this one better :* Araba mavi.*
*Bu araba mavidir* or *Bu araba mavi*?

To say : "This is an orange flower" , should i say : *Bu bir turuncu çiçek* or *Bu bir turuncu çiçekter*, or *bu çiçek turuncudur?* Does this last sentence mean  "This flower is orange"


I feel a bit lost 

şimdiden teşekkürler!


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## Stambouliote

Merhaba, 
First of all, I should say the suffix -dir is never seen in the form "-der". You can only apply it as "-dir, -dır, -dür, -dur". (-der, -dar, -dor, -dör not possible)

Secondly, both of the sentences you wrote above are correct. In colloquial language, however, the form without suffix is much more common. 

And lastly, there is a slight differance between *Bu bir turuncu çiçektir* and  *bu çiçek turuncudur. *First sentence means : This is an orange flower, while the second one means : This flower is orange.


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## Stambouliote

If you ask about the obligation of this suffix, I could say it is obligatory when you are talking about general truths. For example:

Dünya yuvarlaktır. 
Su renksizdir.
Yılan korkunçtur.

However, "yılan korkunç" indicates the existance of a defined "snake". We can say:

Yılan korkunçtur : A snake is scary.
Yılan korkunç : The snake is scary.


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## Luminista

Stambouliote said:


> Merhaba,
> First of all, I should say the suffix -dir is never seen in the form "-der". You can only apply it as "-dir, -dır, -dür, -dur". (-der, -dar, -dor, -dör not possible)
> 
> Secondly, both of the sentences you wrote above are correct. In colloquial language, however, the form without suffix is much more common.
> 
> And lastly, there is a slight differance between *Bu bir turuncu çiçektir* and *bu çiçek turuncudur. *First sentence means : This is an orange flower, while the second one means : This flower is orange.


 

So, if i want to speak like you do in day by day speech, i will say, for exemple : *Bu çiçek turuncu* and not *turuncudur,* even if it is gramatically correct!
Thanks a lot for your help !


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## Luminista

Stambouliote said:


> If you ask about the obligation of this suffix, I could say it is obligatory when you are talking about general truths. For example:
> 
> Dünya yuvarlaktır.
> Su renksizdir.
> Yılan korkunçtur.
> 
> However, "yılan korkunç" indicates the existance of a defined "snake". We can say:
> 
> Yılan korkunçtur : A snake is scary.
> Yılan korkunç : The snake is scary.


 
Tamam, anliyorum. It deprends on the feeling. I hope i will get it this feeling soon!


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## Stambouliote

Luminista said:


> So, if i want to speak like you do in day by day speech, i will say, for exemple : *Bu çiçek turuncu* and not *turuncudur,* even if it is gramatically correct!
> Thanks a lot for your help !



Yes, exactly! And by the way, we don't say *"bu bir turuncu çiçektir*". I mean, "bir" ( a/an in english) is not placed before adjectives but always before nouns. So you should say 'Bu turuncu bir çiçek/tir'. İstanbul güzel bir şehirdir. (Istanbul is a beautiful city) note the place of "bir" and "a" in the examples. good luck with turkish


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## Luminista

Stambouliote said:


> Yes, exactly! And by the way, we don't say *"bu bir turuncu çiçektir*". I mean, "bir" ( a/an in english) is not placed before adjectives but always before nouns. So you should say 'Bu turuncu bir çiçek/tir'. İstanbul güzel bir şehirdir. (Istanbul is a beautiful city) note the place of "bir" and "a" in the examples. good luck with turkish


 
Tamam! We can say also :* İstanbul güzel bir şehir* right?


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## Stambouliote

Yes! [ which is a much more common saying  ]


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## Luminista

Stambouliote said:


> Yes! [ which is a much more common saying  ]


 
Tekrar teşekkürler!


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## Volcano

*May be helpful

**http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1313861&highlight=present+tense*


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## Luminista

Thanks a lot for your help!
I have an other question maybe could you help me 

To say : *This table is brown*
Should I say : *Bu masa kahverengi*
Or : *Bu masa kahverengidir*
Or : *Bu masayı (?) kahverengi*
Or somethnig else ?

I know it's close from what I have asked before, but ... 

Teşekkürler!


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## Orkide

Luminista said:


> Thanks a lot for your help!
> I have an other question maybe could you help me
> 
> To say : *This table is brown*
> Should I say : *Bu masa kahverengi*
> Or : *Bu masa kahverengidir*
> Or : *Bu masayı (?) kahverengi*
> Or somethnig else ?
> 
> I know it's close from what I have asked before, but ...
> 
> Teşekkürler!



It could never be _masayı _in this sentence since _masa _is the subject here, and a subject can never be in the accusative case.

Your other sentences are correct, though the one with -dir is very formal. Putting -dir there is not necessary, unless you want to stress the fact that it is brown, or are making a formal statement.


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## Luminista

I have read again your posts and I think that i've get my answer.
We can use both of : *Bu masa kahverengi* and *Bu masa kahverengidir*
And the first is common used.


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## Orkide

This might be of help: http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/suffix.htm#dirobj


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## Luminista

Orkide said:


> It could never be _masayı _in this sentence since _masa _is the subject here, and a subject can never be in the accusative case.
> 
> Your other sentences are correct, though the one with -dir is very formal. Putting -dir there is not necessary, unless you want to stress the fact that it is brown, or are making a formal statement.


 
Teşekkür ederim Orkide!


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