# He went to jail rather than pay/paid his fines



## Ilyana

Hello!

There are a lot of threads concerning "rather than", but it's hard to find the answer to my question.
I read in American Heritage book of English Usage (not exactly in this book, but on englishrules.com, where the reference was provided):
_In some cases, however, rather than can only be followed by a gerund and not by a bare infinitive. If the main verb of the sentence has a form that does not allow parallel treatment of the verb following rather than, you cannot use a bare infinitive, and you must use a gerund. This is often the case when the main verb is in a past tense or has a participle. Thus, you must say *The results of the study, rather than ending (not end or ended) the controversy, only added to it.* If the main verb was in the present tense (add), you could use the bare infinitive end._

_Curiously, when the rather than construction follows the main verb, it can use other verb forms besides the bare infinitive. Thus you can say *The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it.*_

But on gmammar-quizzes.com I saw a lot of examples violating this rule:
_Ed went to jail rather than pay his parking fines. _
Would you consider this sentence correct?


----------



## owlman5

If you had not provided the rule suggested by englishrules, Ilyana, I wouldn't have noticed anything wrong with the sentence.  Fluent speakers are often unaware of various rules of grammar that people have proposed.  If I heard the sentence in a conversation, I wouldn't have said to myself  "That's wrong."  Other violations of grammatical rules bug me, but the one you are asking about isn't one of them.

I sure don't see any harm in following the rule you found, however.  If you always used "...rather than paying his fine", it would sound normal and you wouldn't be violating that rule.


----------



## Beryl from Northallerton

>> Would you consider this sentence correct?

I would say, 'he went to jail rather paying his fines'.

I see this a lot '_Ed went to jail rather than pay his parking fines.'_ , and so much so that I wouldn't want to call it incorrect. 

This appears in the title: _Ed went to jail rather than *paid* his parking fines. _< -- I certainly consider this to be incorrect.  _(Cross-posted)_


----------



## Ilyana

Thank you both very much!


----------



## Ilyana

I found that book and read the passage about "rather than". It seems that the sentence is fine:
_Ed went to jail rather than pay his parking fines.
_
The question arises regarding Past Simple after "rather than".
I did a little research and found out that many consider this usage wrong:
_Ed went to jail rather than paid his parking fines.(1)

_But what about that example from American Heritage?
_The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it.(2)

_How come (1) is incorrect and (2) is correct?


----------



## velisarius

At Grammar-Quizzes.com there is an extensive analysis of various types of sentence with "rather" and "rather than", and a useful section that deals with common mistakes. They make a distinction between preference (X not Y) as in "Ed walked rather than ran.", and avoidance (choosing X to avoid Y) as in "Ed went to jail rather than pay his parking fines".

The sentences in post #5 would be cases of  "choosing X to avoid Y " (1) and "X not Y" (2).


----------



## Ilyana

This is very useful indeed! I failed to notice it when I looked this site up for the first time. I understand it now and I'm so happy about it.

Though, grammar-quizzes.com doesn't seem to comply with a rule from American Heritage book.


----------



## Ilyana

I have one more question about "rather than" usage. Maybe I should start a new thread, but it's really tied up with this one. I noticed on grammar-quizzes.com that, as a rule, bare infinitive is used after "rather than". But there are two sentences that have to-infinitive on this site:
_It's better to continue rather than (to) wait. (1)
I would prefer to walk rather than to drive. (2)
_Then, in section "Error and Solution" it is said that to-infinitive is a *mistake*:
_We decided to take a map with us rather than *[*__*to]*__ get lost. (3)

_It seems rather inconsistent to me. Why are (1) and (2) ok while (3) is wrong?


----------



## velisarius

Those are good questions. According to that site, 

(1) you can use "wait" or "to wait". This falls into their category of "preference", or (X not Y).
(2) you should use parallel infinitives (I think this is because of the tense "would prefer to", which requires the full infinitive in the other clause). If it were "I prefer to walk ... ", then it would be like your (1). Again, this belongs to the category (X not Y).
(3) this is a case of "avoidance", or (choosing X to avoid Y), which usually requires the bare infinitive.


----------



## Chasint

Beryl from Northallerton said:


> ...I would say, 'he went to jail rather paying his fines'.
> 
> I see this a lot '_Ed went to jail rather than pay his parking fines.'_ , and so much so that I wouldn't want to call it incorrect...


Beryl - The two sentences have distinct meanings.

1. "He went to jail rather than paying his fines"  [The authorities gave him a free choice - fines or jail. He chose jail]  - Preference 

2. "He went to jail rather than pay his fines"  [He wasn't given a choice. He was told he must pay his fines but he refused. As a punishement for not paying, he was sent to jail.]  - Avoidance

Personally I don't like sentence (1). I don't think it calls for "rather than".  On the other hand, sentence (2) would be very difficult to write without using "rather than".


----------



## Ilyana

Thank you very much! 
I've perused that site for a long time, and now I'm so exited that I understood it at last!

To sum up:
In case of "avoidance" (X to avoid Y): we should use bare infinitive only.
In case of "preference" (X not Y): we can use either bare or to-infinitive (if we have parallel element, to-infinitive, in the main part of the sentence, that is).
In case of "would prefer to" in the main part: we should use to-infinitive after "rather than".


----------



## velisarius

I agree with Biffo, and the advice given at the site mentioned seems good to me. When I did the test at the end, their answers and my answers coincided, so I'm happy too.


----------



## Ilyana

Biffo's comment is a bit confusing to me. If a sentence meaning "avoidance" with infinitive form becomes "preference" with gerund, what happens to a sentence meaning "preference" with infinitive?
_The results of the study added to the controversy rather than end it. (1)
The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ending it. (2)
The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. (3)
_Does the meanings of (1) and (3) coincide? How is (2) different from them? Is it correct at all?


----------



## Chasint

Ilyana said:


> Biffo's comment is a bit confusing to me. If a sentence meaning "avoidance" with infinitive form becomes "preference" with gerund, what happens to a sentence meaning "preference" with infinitive?
> _The results of the study added to the controversy rather than end it. (1)
> The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ending it. (2)
> The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. (3)
> _Does the meanings of (1) and (3) coincide? How is (2) different from them? Is it correct at all?


I think you are starting with the wrong premise. There can be no 'preference' or 'avoidance' when referring to some results. Only people and animals can prefer or avoid something.  Results have no feelings or intentions.


----------



## Ilyana

I used to think that there were only two main meanings of "rather than" - "preference" and "avoidance". Not to terrify myself with more, let's talk about these two:
_Ed walked rather than drove to work. - _I presume this is a correct sentence meaning he preferred walking to driving.
Can we say: _Ed walked rather than drive to work. 
_Or: _Ed walked rather than driving to work._
Are these correct? Do they mean the same?


----------



## Chasint

Ilyana said:


> I used to think that there were only two main meanings of "rather than" - "preference" and "avoidance". Not to terrify myself with more, let's talk about these two:
> _Ed walked rather than drove to work. - _I presume this is a correct sentence meaning he preferred walking to driving.
> Can we say: _Ed walked rather than drive to work.
> _Or: _Ed walked rather than driving to work._
> Are these correct? Do they mean the same?


A. I'll talk about the neutral version first.
_"Hey John, you know that green wall behind your house?"
"What green wall?"
"The factory wall."
"You're wrong. That wall is blue rather than green."_

Here we have a simple reporting of fact. There is no preference or avoidance. There is no infinitive, past tense or participle.

B. "rather than" does not really take a bare infinitive (although the form is just that), it takes the subjunctive.  *EDITED see below*

C. _Ed walked rather than drive to work.  _
This indicates avoidance. To see this we need to add some context. 
"Ed was terrified of cars. When he was young he had been involved in a dreadful accident. Ed walked rather than drive to work. In fact Ed would do anything rather than drive a car."

D. _Ed walked rather than drove to work_
This uses the indicative. It reports a state of affairs. 
Detective:_ I believe that Ed drove to work that day. That gave him time to commit the murder._
Ed's friend: _Ed walked rather than drove._

E. Ed walked rather than driving to work.
"Ed always was a fitness fanatic. Rather than driving to work, Ed walked. Rather than drinking alcohol, he drank only water." [This word order is slightly more natural]
This indicates Ed's preference. It also reports the facts of his behaviour.


----------



## e2efour

Biffo said:


> A.
> B. "rather than" does not really take a bare infinitive (although the form is just that), it takes the subjunctive.
> 
> C. _Ed walked rather than drive to work._
> This uses the subjunctive. It indicates avoidance. To see this we need to add some context.



You appear to be putting forward a new grammatical hypothesis by referring to the subjunctive here. 

In every grammar book I have seen, _rather than_ is described as usually followed by an infinitive (bare or otherwise) or an -ing form, and sometimes by a past tense where there is a parallel construction.
Also if you start the sentence with _rather than_, how would you describe the verb (e.g. "Rather than switch to autopilot, he preferred to fly the plane manually.")?


----------



## Chasint

e2efour said:


> You appear to be putting forward a new grammatical hypothesis by referring to the subjunctive here.
> 
> In every grammar book I have seen, _rather than_ is described as usually followed by an infinitive (bare or otherwise) or an -ing form, and sometimes by a past tense where there is a parallel construction.
> Also if you start the sentence with _rather than_, how would you describe the verb (e.g. "Rather than switch to autopilot, he preferred to fly the plane manually.")?


Actually, I just  went out to the kitchen and realised my mistake. I came back to correct it but you had beaten me to it!  I have removed the references to the subjunctive. I still however maintain that the subjunctive is possible. I'll return to the topic after lunch!


----------



## e2efour

It's a problem we sometimes face when writing a detailed answer and haven't really perfected our reply. 

But surely the subjunctive implies the use of a personal pronoun like _he_ or _I_? You can't call a bare infinitive a subjunctive!


----------



## Ilyana

Thank you very much! Now I think things are clearer to me.

Let's see if I got it right:
_The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. - _Indicative statement (correct).
_The results of the study added to the controversy rather than end it. _- Nonsensical meaning, as if the results of the study had tried to avoid ending the controversy.
_The results of the study added to the controversy  rather than ending it. - _The sentence is probably not exactly incorrect, but it'd better be rewritten as: _Rather than ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it._


----------



## Chasint

Ilyana said:


> Thank you very much! Now I think things are clearer to me.
> 
> Let's see if I got it right:
> _The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. - _Indicative statement (correct).
> _The results of the study added to the controversy rather than end it. _- Nonsensical meaning, as if the results of the study had tried to avoid ending the controversy.
> _The results of the study added to the controversy  rather than ending it. - _The sentence is probably not exactly incorrect, but it'd better be rewritten as: _Rather than ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it._


Well you have certainly got it right as far as I am concerned. I agree entirely.


----------



## wandle

'Rather than' does not seem to me to be appropriate in any of the sentences about the study in posts 20 and 21.
However we reword the sentence, the phrase 'rather than' still seems to me to carry the implication of a choice or preference. It needs a person to be the subject of the sentence.

I would say: _'Far from ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it'._


----------



## Ilyana

_The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. - _This sentence is from American Heritage book of English usage. Maybe it is American English -  British English difference.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> 'Rather than' does not seem to me to be appropriate in any of the sentences about the study in posts 20 and 21.
> However we phrase the sentence, 'rather than' still seems to me to carry the implication of a choice or preference.
> 
> I would say: _'Far from ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it'._


You have compounded several ideas into a single comment.

1._'Rather than' does not seem to me to be appropriate in any of the sentences about the study in post 21._  Do you have a reason?

2. _However we phrase the sentence, 'rather than' still seems to me to carry the implication of a choice or preference_.
(a) Do you mean just the sentences in #20-21, or do you mean any sentences with "rather than"?
(b) To me there are three sentences in those posts, each has its own meaning. Only one of them is shown rearranged.

3. _I would say: 'Far from ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it'_. It is always possible to paraphrase. I could offer '_Instead of ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it'. but that would not invalidate your sentence. Neither does your sentence *per se* invalidate the one it is supposed to replace. _


----------



## wandle

'Rather than' seems to me to carry the implication of a choice or preference. 
That is why I find it inappropriate in any of the sentence variants regarding the study, in posts 20 and 21.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> 'Rather than' seems to me to carry the implication of a choice or preference.
> That is why I find it inappropriate in any of the sentence variants regarding the study, in posts 20 and 21.


In that case, what about this example

Wolf Howling Is Mediated by Relationship Quality Rather Than Underlying Emotional Stress
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(13)00823-3

Who chose this to be true? The researchers? The wolves?  

Is it preferable that this be true? If so to whom?


----------



## wandle

Biffo said:


> Wolf Howling Is Mediated by Relationship Quality Rather Than Underlying Emotional Stress
> http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(13)00823-3


In this case, 'rather than' expresses the opinion of the writers. 
It means in effect 'We prefer to see the mediating factor as relationship quality'.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> In this case, 'rather than' expresses the opinion of the writer(s).
> It means in effect 'We prefer to see the mediating factor as relationship quality'.


 I don't believe that to be true for one second. Science is supposed to be objective and based on facts rather than desires.

What makes you think that they prefer it? Sometimes scientists discover very inconvenient truths.


----------



## wandle

As I see it, the use of 'rather than' involves comparison, comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> As I see it, the use of 'rather than' involves comparison, comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice.


In that case consider the following:

The scientists measured John and Mary. They found Mary to be taller than John. Their results were summarised as follows:

Mary is taller than John

Here we have comparison. You say that comparison involves judgement. Therefore I accept that we have  judgement. The scientists would prefer us to believe them. You would say that they could have written_ "We prefer to see Mary's height as more than John's"_

That's all fine but I haven't used the expression "rather than".  If your argument is correct then all comparative statements involve judgement and therefore require choice and/or preference. That may even be true but it has absolutely nothing to do with the use of the expression "rather than".


----------



## wandle

Biffo said:


> Mary is taller than John


That is not an example of 'rather than'. It is a baldly factual statement. 

The phrase 'rather than', as I see it, expresses, directly or indirectly, a choice by a person.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> That is not an example of 'rather than'. It is a baldly factual statement.
> 
> The phrase 'rather than', as I see it, expresses, directly or indirectly, a choice by a person.


1. I was merely looking at the logical consequence of your argument. You said categorically (I quote your words) " comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice."   If that is true, then, as I pointed out, any comparison involves judgement.  You have proved nothing that is specific to "rather than".

2. I understand that that is how you see it. However you're simply repeating your opinion without evidence. I think the English Only forum deserves more.


----------



## wandle

Biffo said:


> You said categorically (I quote your words) "comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice."


Yes, I am sorry, that statement ought to have been limited. I intended it within the context of the meaning of the phrase 'rather than'. Let me revise it:

_As I see it, the use of 'rather than' involves comparison, that comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice._

Now, the word 'that' makes clear that the comparison referred to is that involved by the use of the phrase 'rather than'.

I have expressed a reasoned view endeavouring to respond to your points while keeping within the thread topic.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> Yes, I am sorry, that statement ought to have been limited. I intended it within the context of the meaning of the phrase 'rather than'. Let me revise it:
> 
> _As I see it, the use of 'rather than' involves comparison, that comparison involves judgement and the result is a choice._
> 
> Now, the word 'that' makes clear that the comparison referred to is that involved by the use of the phrase 'rather than'.
> 
> I have expressed a reasoned view keeping within the thread topic.


That is fair enough. My intention is to demonstrate an example where your statement is untrue. The problem is that you are defining your point of view to be correct. Any argument you base on that definition will inevitably prove you right and me wrong. It's a circular argument.

Let me try again. 

*Statement 1* At the beginning of the school term, John was the tallest in the class. By the end of term, Mary rather than John was the tallest.

Where is the choice here?  Mary did not choose to have a growth spurt. John didn't choose to grow slower. I didn't choose who I wanted to be taller - I don't even care.  Who did the choosing?

If you say that measurement is a comparison and comparison is a judgement, then the same would apply to the following:

*Statement 2*  At the beginning of the school term, John was the tallest in the class. At the end of the school term Mary was the tallest.

This also involves measurement, comparison and therefore judgement. What's the difference?


----------



## wandle

Well, with the best will in the world, I can only say that that example is not dealing with 'rather than' and thus falls outside the thread topic. 

I have expressed a carefully considered view without the slightest wish to prove anyone wrong, merely to offer my tuppenceworth. Dinner calls.


----------



## Chasint

wandle said:


> Well, with the best will in the world, I can only say that that example is not dealing with 'rather than' and thus falls outside the thread topic.
> 
> I have expressed a carefully considered view without the slightest wish to prove anyone wrong, merely to offer my tuppenceworth. Dinner calls.


So the statement





Biffo said:


> ...Let me try again.
> 
> *Statement 1* At the beginning of the school term, John was the tallest in the class. By the end of term, Mary *rather than* John was the tallest.
> 
> ...


doesn't deal with "rather than" and is off-topic?

If that is how you 'see it' then we have no more to discuss and  I'll also accept that 2+2=3 

I'm sorry to have wasted your time.


----------



## wandle

Beg your pardon, I missed that (too hasty!).


> By the end of term, Mary rather than John was the tallest.


I would say that statement implies a viewpoint related to a prior state of affairs.
Whereas _'By the end of term, Mary was the tallest'_ is a bald statment of fact.

Thus there is a slight element of intention or meaning in the first statement which is absent in the second.
Really must go now.


----------



## Ilyana

I have two more questions (I hope, last - related to this topic):
_
Ed has walked rather than driven to work. - _Here are two parallel elements, so the sentence is correct (it isn't "avoidance", just a state of affairs).
_Ed has walked rather than driving to work. - _Is the sentence correct as it is, or is it better be rewritten as: _Rather than driving, Ed has walked to work?_
Do these two sentences convey the same meaning?

And the second one. If I want to convey the meaning of "avoidance" by the sentence, will these two sentences be equal?
_He went to jail rather than pay his parking tickets.
Rather than pay his parking tickets, we went to jail.
_


----------



## wandle

Ilyana said:


> Ed has walked rather than driven to work. - Here are two parallel elements, so the sentence is correct.


Yes.


> Ed has walked rather than driving to work.


However, here the elements are not parallel. 
To make a parallel for 'rather than driving', we can use a continuous form in the main verb:
_ 'Ed is (will be, was, has been, etc.) walking rather than driving to work'_. 


> He went to jail rather than pay his parking tickets.
> Rather than pay his parking tickets, he went to jail.


These two sentences are equivalent: same grammar, same meaning (just different clause order).


----------



## wandle

Sorry I did not have more time earler. I was surprised by the reaction to the rather modest view ('does not seem', 'still seems') offered in post 22. *Ilyana*'s response was not so intense: 





Ilyana said:


> _The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it. - _This sentence is from American Heritage book of English usage. Maybe it is American English -  British English difference.


 There may be such a difference; I am not sure.

If I may develop a little, I see the phrase 'rather than' as expressing directly or indirectly a judgement, decision, choice or preference: meaning that some person has opted for one view instead of another. That person may be the speaker (_'I'd rather walk than ride'_) or someone else, as in the thread title (_'He went to jail rather than pay his fines'_).

On this view, it is different from a comparative expression without 'rather', such as 'more than', 'taller than', 'faster than' etc. Now it is true that every statement expresses the opinion of the speaker or writer. This is true of the statement _'Mary was the tallest'_ and also of _'Mary rather than John was now the tallest'_. 

However, as I see it, the latter statement additionally conveys the idea that someone has decided for this view, as against the expectation that John would be the tallest. That is the extra element of mental intention expressed by 'rather than'. Who has so decided? In this case, the speaker. 

On the other hand, if we say _'Mary is going out with Bill rather than John'_, the element of intention is attributed to the subject of the sentence. The same is true of _'He went to jail rather than pay his fines'_. It is because I see 'rather than' as conveying this intentional meaning that I find sentences such as _'Rather than ending the controversy, the results of the study added to it'_ inappropriate. In this case, the subject of the sentence ('the results of the study') is not capable of having an intention or a preference.


----------



## Ilyana

Thank you, Wandle. 

I'm not in a position to argue with a native-speaker for one way or the other. Personally, I prefer Biffo's point of view on this matter (I hope that doesn't offend you).


----------



## wandle

Ilyana said:


> Thank you, Wandle.


Glad to help if possible.


> Personally, I prefer Biffo's point of view on this matter (I hope that doesn't offend you).


Of course it doesn't. In any case, the scope of any disagreement is very limited.

If I may summarise my point, a sentence such as _'The results of the study added to the controversy rather than ended it'_ is clear but seems inappropriate to me because the phrase 'rather than' indicates a preference or choice (and 'results' do not choose); whereas _'The results of the study, far from ending the controversy, only added to it'_ does not create such an implication.


----------

