# training / trainings || Do a training



## sleepy sheep

Hello, 
I'd like to make sure that the word "training" is uncountable and that it is always used in the form of "training (without "s") or "a training".

1. Training can be done in various ways.
2. A training can be done in varoius ways.
3. Trainings can be done in various ways.

I think 1 and 2 are correct, and 3 is incorrect. Am I right?
If 3 is a mistake, is there any chance that a native speaker of English make such a mistake? (Actually, it is described in a document from Australia.)

Replies from native speakers would be appreciated.


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## ewie

Hello SS.  As far as I (personally) am concerned, _training_ is *only* an uncountable noun ~ which would make only your sentence 1 correct.

To make it countable you need to add words here and there:
_A course of training can be done ...
Training periods are held ...
_etc.

It's a failing in English.

Native speakers make _all kinds_ of weird and wonderful mistakes ~ anything's possible!


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## Welshie

ewie said:


> It's a failing in English.



Not at all. It's just the way things are.

I have seen "training" used as a shorthand for "a training session", and therefore "trainings" becomes possible. I don't like this though, it doesn't sound good at all :S


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## ewie

Welshie said:


> Not at all. It's just the way things are.


Let's call it a 'lacuna', then


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## sleepy sheep

Thank you for your reply, ewie and Welsie! 

So... let me confirm.

- Although one of online English-Japanese dictionaries, which is called "Excite", says that "training" is used in the form of "training" or "a training", it is wrong. "Training" is never used with "a" unless it is used with other words, like "a course of training" or "a training course". It's unlikely that a dictionary is wrong, but I believe if native speakers says so. 

- In the document from Australia, "trainings" is used many times, so it is not a careless mistake. The author wrote it intentionally. But it is still possible the author is a native speaker.

- Even if native speakers use "trainings", it shouldn't be used in a formal document (based on the fact that a native speaker feels it doesn't sound good).

Is all of the above correct?


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## Dimcl

sleepy sheep said:


> - Although one of online English-Japanese dictionaries, which is called "Excite", says that "training" is used in the form of "training" or "a training", it is wrong. "Training" is never used with "a" unless it is used with other words, like "a course of training" or "a training course". It's unlikely that a dictionary is wrong, but I believe if native speakers says so.


Could you please provide some samples of "a training" as used by this and or other Japanese dictionaries or English teaching books?

If you are relying on such a dictionary, I wonder why you asked the question that you did - you must have some doubts about this...



> In the document from Australia, "trainings" is used many times, so it is not a careless mistake. The author wrote it intentionally. But it is still possible the author is *not* a native speaker.


What "document"? Again, we need some context and preferably some sample sentences to understand and explain.



> Even if native speakers use "trainings", it shouldn't be used in a formal document (based on the fact that a native speaker feels it doesn't sound good).


I know of no native-speakers who use "trainings".


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## Tacocat

Hello everyone,

I am wondering if this doesn't come down to regionalism or personal preference. A number of my coworkers were lamenting that even though we went to "a week-long training" ("a training") last year, we are obliged to attend "another training" this year for the same job. I even heard someone say they didn't know why we needed "multiple trainings." It seems that people use the word "training" as a shorter alternative to "a session/course of training (for a job or profession)." Perhaps this sounds wretched to native English speakers of other regions, but it sounds okay to me. 
However, if the "training" in question were the sort of training that an athlete does before a competition, I would say that this sort of training is not a noun, but a gerund form like "dancing" and is therefore not to be counted or pluralized; to make it a noun I would talk about the training as divided into sessions and the duration of these sessions. "Katherine went to five training sessions a week before the triathlon" is possible, but not "Katherine went to five *trainings a week." (Personally, I would just say "Katherine trained five times a week.") Maybe whether or not "training" is a count or non-count noun comes down to semantic distinctions between different types of training.


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## JulianStuart

Well, I have to say I was a little surprised to find over 4 million hits for the google search "trainings -training" and over 12 million for simple "trainings"  The use as a countable is quite well established - mainly, it seems, in the context Tacocat mentions it, as a shortened version of "training course" or "training session".
We must move in the wrong circles - or we just move in circles while others move on


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## sleepy sheep

Hello Tacocat, thank you for your reply. Your explanation is easy to understand and very helpful.  How about using "a training" or "trainings" in an official document? Does it still sound okay to you?

Hello Dimcl, thank you for your reply.


> Could you please provide some samples of "a training" as used by this and or other Japanese dictionaries or English teaching books?
> 
> If you are relying on such a dictionary, I wonder why you asked the question that you did - you must have some doubts about this...


 
This is the dictionary I wrote about, and this is the only dictionary I can find which says "a training" is okay.
http://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/english_japanese/?search=training&match=beginswith&dictionary=NEW_EJJE&block=43774&offset=298&title=training
At first I didn't post the URL because this is "English Only" forum (and I don't think many people here read Japanese).
It says [U] [or a -], which means it is an uncountable noun but it can be used in the form of "a training" too.
I do have doubts about the dictionary. That's why I asked here. I mean dictionaries are in general reliable, but I have doubts about this one.




> What "document"? Again, we need some context and preferably some sample sentences to understand and explain.


I mean the document in my first post. It's a business document from Australia. This document describes how to conduct and record staff training in the company. I don't know whether this is written by an Australian because there are many non-native speakers in an multi-national company.
In the document, it is written that "Trainings can be done in various ways." as I wrote in my first post as Example 3. And in the same document, the author uses "trainings" many times. So it's not a careless mistake. This person thinks "trainings" is okay.
So, although you wrote "*not*" in red letters, what I meant is opposite. In response to ewie's "Native speakers make _all kinds_ of weird and wonderful mistakes ", I wanted to confirm that native speakers do make such a mistake (using "trainings"), not as a careless mistake.


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## Tacocat

Hi again,
Hmmm... although I have no problem with the colloquial usage of "another training" and "multiple trainings," I would hesitate to use "training" and a count noun in any official context. I would sooner write something like: "A number of Tacocat's coworkers complained of having to attend multiple courses of training/complained of having to repeat their training a second time/complained that they would have to repeat the training (sessions/course) of the previous year."
So, basically, since it is perhaps too informal (even for me, an American) to pluralize or count "training" in a formal document, and because several other native speakers from different regions didn't like the way it sounds at all, I would avoid it altogether in official writing and use a formulation like the ones I proposed above. Sometimes there are hard and fast rules for usage of a language, but sometimes the choice is up to the person producing speech or text and is simply a question of style. I suspect that this is more the latter than the former!


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## sleepy sheep

I see. Thank you very much!

JulianStuart, yes, I was surprised when I did the Google search too. Thank you for your help!


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## Camlearner

Hi

I also just have a question about whether or not training with s.

Now I find the following sentence from http://www.nilc.org/trainings



> The National Immigration Law Center’s organizers, attorneys, and  analysts perform *trainings *on myriad issues affecting immigrants,  ranging from immigrant access to safety net services to know-your-rights  trainings for immigrant worker advocates. Check this page to find out  about upcoming trainings and events.



Because the website contact ( http://www.nilc.org/contact_us.html ) is in US, so it seems like US English use training with s.

Thanks


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## Tacocat

Your example reminds me of just how complicated the question actually is. While it is true that the site is a US government site and should be upholding usage of correct English, there are plenty of native speakers who say things in English that look and sound awful to me. People these days say things like "The decision impacted the company," which is a usage that I cannot stand, since "impact" is what one object does to another in a collision. I think they should say "affected" or "made an impact on."  There's also the matter that people use made-up words like "conversate" unwittingly, persuaded that they are real and useful (what about "converse?"). People also make typos, or simply make mistakes in grammar and usage. Not everyone who writes and puts something on the Internet is correct. You should be aware of this when doing research on the Internet; this also applies to researching language use. Just because it's there doesn't mean that it's right. 

I am something of a formalist and believe that there is a correct way to speak and an incorrect one. While many people use "training" in the plural, and you will certainly be understood if you do the same, some people, like me, think it sounds wrong. However, people like me (I'm a Ph.D. student) may be educated, but we don't represent the majority of speakers. The thing about language is that it is often in flux, shifting from one model of usage to another, with different groups of people disagreeing about which usage is correct. Language tends to evolve away from old, prescriptive usage into newer forms that reflect how some groups of people speak. 

For this reason, I am not going to say that "trainings" is wrong, even though I don't think it sounds good, and even though my spell-checker just underlined it in red, indicating that the word with an S isn't in the dictionary. I would recommend using "training sessions" or even "training meetings" or "training courses," or orienting the expression away from "training" altogether. However, I do not represent all English speakers, as you can see from the examples where you found people using it that way. It is your choice as to whether you want to avoid using "trainings" because learned native English speakers like me think it is wrong, just as it is your choice to go ahead and use it because a certain percentage of native speakers use it, even if the rest of us don't agree that it's correct.


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## PaulQ

Probably simpler to stick to "training."


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## RM1(SS)

Tacocat said:


> I am wondering if this doesn't come down to regionalism or personal preference. A number of my coworkers were lamenting that even though we went to "a week-long training" ("a training") last year, we are obliged to attend "another training" this year for the same job. I even heard someone say they didn't know why we needed "multiple trainings." It seems that people use the word "training" as a shorter alternative to "a session/course of training (for a job or profession)." Perhaps this sounds wretched to native English speakers of other regions, but it sounds okay to me.



I have used "training" to mean "a training session" many times ("Don't bother hitting the rack - we have training in ten minutes"), but I would never consider using "trainings" as a plural form.


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## sdgraham

RM1(SS) said:


> but I would never consider using "trainings" as a plural form.



Neither would I.

Do not assume, camlearner, that everything you read on U.S. websites is good English, especially when the writers are starry-eyed bureaucrats tending to lapse into jargon and gibberish.


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## Parla

The page to which you linked (which doesn't have the word "trainings", although it may be somewhere on the site) is that of a law firm. Lawyers are not necessarily grammar authorities. "Trainings" is wrong.


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## Camlearner

Thanks everyone.

Ok, so it's either training or training courses.

I still have another relevant question.

Can I say: I have *a/one/another/(nothing)* training to take next week?

For plural form, I now understand that I should say: I have *2 training courses* to take next month.

Tacocat's suggested 'training meetings' reminds me of someone who says 'training seminar o training workshop'.


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## Parla

> Can I say: I have *a/one/another/(nothing)* training to take next week?


In my opinion, none of them, since_ training _is either an adjective or an uncountable noun. The following would be possible:

I have a training session next week. I have training sessions next week. I have more training next week.
I have a training seminar (if it is a lecture) / training workshop (if you will be performing activities) next week.
I have training next week.


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## Camlearner

Thanks Parla.

I now complete my training in/on how to use the word 'training'.


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## Ultramarine

<< Moderator's note: This new question has been added to an existing thread. >>

Hi all,
I have seen sentences with "training" as a countable  noun, for example, "the company provides various trainings for its staff". Assuming that "a training" is the same as "a training course", what verbs collocate with it? Do we "do a training"? Or "go to a training"? Sometimes "a training" is not the same as a training course - I can think of a training that lasts a couple of hours. Does that affect the choice of verb? 
Many thanks!


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## se16teddy

It varies from place to place. I know that Marks and Spencer employees _do a training_; in my work-place we do not.

EDIT: The OED gives these examples of countable_ trainings_. 

1598  I. D. tr.  L. Le Roy _Aristotles Politiques _viii. iii. 384                  It appeareth, that..it is needfull to learne certaine things, and to be instructed and trained in the same, and that these instructions and trainings be vndertaken for their sakes which learn.
1780  J. Green _Plan for Better Regulation Mariners_ 1                  The plan. To increase our number of mariners by putting them under proper trainings, so that boys may be real mariners.
1826  A. Henderson _Pract. Grazier_ i. 64                  The horse, from regular trainings to dread the whip and fear the voice,..will become all alive from even seeing the one or hearing the other.
1882 _45th Ann. Rep. Superintendent of Public Instr. Michigan 1881_ 284                  We all see the importance of some kind of gymnastic training to give the children erect, graceful forms... Teachers agree on the value of such trainings.
1923 _Boys' Life_ Mar. 50/4                  Scottie surprised his team with a thirty-pound sled in place of the seventy-pound one which he had used in trainings.
1988  T. Vellela _New Voices_ v. 64                  That's something we teach in the trainings, that victories are not going to come in a month or two.
2003 _Yoga Jrnl._ Nov. 24/3,                  I was recently in a training where the instruction was given in a forward bend to ‘blossom your buttocks’.

Of these, 1882, 1988, 1923 and 2003 would appear to be "American English".


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## Egmont

In American English we would not do "a training." Training is an uncountable noun in AE.


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## Keith Bradford

I'm amazed to find that anyone (especially dear Marks and Spencer) uses "a" training.  I thought it was only bad translations from French which said that.

I think foreign learners would be well advised to avoid this entirely.  _Training _is the uncountable, _a course _is the countable; compare "a course of training" with "a loaf of bread".


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## Dale Texas

While I won't i propose "a training" is acceptable everywhere or say that it was not formerly regarded as an uncountable noun, I find this now to be very common usage in AE and have heard it for quite long time, _particularl_y by trainers in a workplace:  "I gave a training today."  (Not more than one session).  I suppose it because of the rapidity of the utterance, over and done with.  So it_ is_ being used as a countable noun by some, but would agree foreign learners should avoid it.


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## se16teddy

Keith Bradford said:


> I'm amazed to find that anyone (especially dear Marks and Spencer) uses "a" training.


My informant in M&S is now backtracking on his allegation! He speaks good English but is not a native speaker, and I am now beginning to wonder if his use of "a training" is his idiosyncrasy.


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## Linkway

Training is an uncountable noun.   If someone said "I did a training yesterday" it is a simple error or a shortening of "...a training session" for example.

In the specific context of Marks & Spencer, it should be noted that they are undergoing a major reorganisation called "Plan A" that requires a lot staff training. 

Hence, on their corporate website the mention of people doing "Plan A training" is quite correct but a different use of "a" with "training".


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## Linkway

"Training for top 100 executives in sustainability and ensuring every single one of M&S’ international employees receives Plan A training;"

The above is a bullet point item from a list of actions on Marks & Spencer's corporate website.


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## Keith Bradford

So what's "Plan A" training?  It doesn't prove the point either way, but perhaps that's the point?


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## Linkway

Keith Bradford said:


> So what's "Plan A" training?



Simply, training that staff will need to implement Plan A, the new roles, skill, attitudes, relationships, responsibilities, etc that are part of Plan A.

The only reason I mentioned it was to suggest how a "casual" reader/listener might have thought (wrongly) that Marks & Spencer used sentences like "We need to plan a training for...."


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## Cagey

Moderator's note:

This thread has been added to a previous discussion.  Please scroll up and read from the top.

Cagey, moderator.


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## e2efour

Some people clearly do say _in a training _in AE.
_See in the middle of <a> training._


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## Keith Bradford

e2efour said:


> Some people clearly do say _in a training _in AE.
> _See in the middle of <a> training._



... and if you look in detail at the cited sources, many of them are foreign-based - French in particular.  This is not good English.


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## zaffy

Tacocat said:


> I am wondering if this doesn't come down to regionalism or personal preference. A number of my coworkers were lamenting that even though we went to "a week-long training" ("a training") last year, we are obliged to attend "another training" this year for the same job. I even heard someone say they didn't know why we needed "multiple trainings."
> 
> However, if the "training" in question were the sort of training that an athlete does before a competition, I would say that this sort of training is not a noun, but a gerund form like "dancing" and is therefore not to be counted or pluralized; to make it a noun I would talk about the training as divided into sessions and the duration of these sessions.




So when talking about a training session at work, I could use it as a noun and say: “One of the employees suddenly collapsed during the training.” Whereas in the world of sport, it is never a noun, so I could say: “One of the footballers suddenly collapsed while training.” Or, if I wanted to use a noun, I would have to say “One of the footballers suddenly collapsed during the training session.”
Am I right?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I think so; with a noun, "the training (session)" with definite article. For sports, in the US at least, we can also say "while practicing/during practice" (no article).


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## zaffy

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> For sports, in the US at least, we can also say "while practicing/during practice" (no article).



-One of the footballers suddenly collapsed while practicing
-One of the footballers suddenly collapsed during practice.

So those two are correct in AE. Will they ever be possible in BE even if I change the spelling in the first example, that is, "One of the footballers suddenly collapsed while practi*s*ing"?


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> -One of the footballers suddenly collapsed while practising
> -One of the footballers suddenly collapsed during practice.


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## zaffy

As I said earlier, I thought 'training' did not work as a noun for sports. And now I've noticed this example in Longman. Do you like it?

"The team captain got a knee injury during training."


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## ewie

zaffy said:


> And now I've noticed this example in Longman. Do you like it?
> 
> "The team captain got a knee injury during training."


  That's fine, Zaffy: you can certainly use it for sports.


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## zaffy

‘Training’ is never a countable noun, and how about ‘practice’? I found this example. Correct?

"Let's have a beer!" "I can't tonight, I have *a* football practice."


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## sdgraham

zaffy said:


> "Let's have a beer!" "I can't tonight, I have *a* football practice."


I don't see "practice" as countable in AE_* in this context*_ (which doesn't mean it cannot be in other contexts)
In AE, we would say, "I can't tonight, I have football practice."


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## ewie

I'm reasonably sure (68.7%) that British footballing persons would say the same.  (Or _footie practice_.)


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## Forero

zaffy said:


> ‘Training’ is never a countable noun, and how about ‘practice’? I found this example. Correct?
> 
> "Let's have a beer!" "I can't tonight, I have *a* football practice."


That is probably OK. Can you provide more context?


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## zaffy

1. 





Forero said:


> That is probably OK. Can you provide more context?



There is no more context. That is just a dictionary example.

2. 





ewie said:


> I'm reasonably sure (68.7%) that British footballing persons would say the same.  (Or _footie practice_.)


That is with 'a' or no 'a' as *sdgraham *said?


3. I still find it hard to understand that "during training" is correct. "During" only works with nouns, not gerunds. I can't say "during dancing", can I?
Or is "training", in fact,  a real noun which just finishes with "ing"? I could believe it is a real noun, not a gerund, as I believe "go to training" is also correct just like you say "go to school". If you say it is not a noun, then "go to training" should also be incorrect just like "go to dancing". What do you think?


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## ewie

sdgraham said:


> In AE, we would say, "I can't tonight, I have football practice."





ewie said:


> I'm reasonably sure (68.7%) that British footballing persons would say the same.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> 3. I still find it hard to understand that "during training" is correct. "During" only works with nouns, not gerunds.


That is not true. Like all prepositions, "during" must have a substantive as an object. A substantive can be a pronoun, a noun, a noun phrase, a noun clause, a gerund, a gerund phrase or clause, or a verbal noun.


> I can't say "during dancing", can I?


Yes you can. "I go to waltz lessons and football practice but I am not going to football this week - I hurt my ankle during dancing."


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

RM1(SS) said:


> I would assume the other person knew what month it was, and just say "Tenth."





PaulQ said:


> That is not true. Like all prepositions, "during" must have a substantive as an object. A substantive can be a pronoun, a noun, a noun phrase, a noun clause, a gerund, a gerund phrase or clause, or a verbal noun.
> 
> Yes you can. "I go to waltz lessons and football practice but I am not going to football this week - I hurt my ankle during dancing."



Actually, Paul, I wouldn't say this. For me , the rule guidance is "while + conjugated verb, during + substantive", and I'd consider "while dancing" to be an ellipsis for "while I was dancing".


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## PaulQ

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> and I'd consider "while dancing" to be an ellipsis for "while I was dancing".


It can certainly be understood in that way, in which case the words take on a different functions, and what is being described in the categories that are possible after "during".

Tips to prevent injury during training - Aston University
Tips to prevent injury during training
_Tips to prevent injury during training. Getting injured sucks! _

Dance Etiquette For Beginners | realbuzz.com
realbuzz.com | Challenge Yourself › ... › Sports & Activities › Dance Etiquette For Begin...
_Errors inevitably happen during dancing and they should not spoil the occasion. _

Sevillanas - Wikipedia
"Turning during dancing" (picture title)


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In #48, did you mean to type "...what is being described in is the categories..."? ("tyop" fixed - thanks, Paul !)


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## zaffy

Paul, while I can imagine some native speakers using "during + ing", I can't imagine considering it correct in any exam. All grammar sources say it is incorrect.


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## PaulQ

There is a mistyping virus on this page


ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> "...what is being described in is are the categoires categories..."?


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> All grammar sources say it is incorrect.


No. If you read them carefully, the sources and their examples are somewhat ambivalent. You can use them as general guidance if you want, but they do not cover all contexts and uses. You have seen the examples in #48.

I would add that, in any case, "training" can be a participle, gerund, verbal noun, an absolute adjective (which would account for its being uncountable) or common noun.


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## zaffy

Coming back to training, do you find these correct?

A: Hi Bob! Where are you heading?
B: I’m going to a football training session. Sorry, I can’t talk. Don’t want to be late. Bye! 
B: I’m going to football training. Sorry, I can’t talk. Don’t want to be late. Bye!
B: I’m going to (a) football practice. Sorry, I can’t talk. Don’t want to be late. Bye!

So is practice there countable or uncountable?


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## PaulQ

B are both correct, but B contains two options: one is normal, the other is correct but could only be used in a given context.
remember that a/an = one example of.

Practice is rarely countable but that does not mean it is *never *countable.


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## zaffy

1. So once I remove 'a' in the last one, all three are correct, right?

2. The dictionary example I gave earlier and have attached here is simply incorrect, right?


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## Forero

PaulQ said:


> Dance Etiquette For Beginners | realbuzz.com
> realbuzz.com | Challenge Yourself › ... › Sports & Activities › Dance Etiquette For Begin...
> _Errors inevitably happen during dancing and they should not spoil the occasion. _
> 
> Sevillanas - Wikipedia
> "Turning during dancing" (picture title)


These sound wrong to me. But "training" is a noncount verbal noun, so "during training" is fine (unless the context makes it like "during dancing").

"Training" in "during training" refers to time being spent on training, as "French" in "He was staring out the window during French" refers to time when French was being studied. ("While French" would be an entirely different thing.)


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## PaulQ

Forero said:


> But "training" is a noncount verbal noun


In which context?


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## zaffy

And are these two correct?  Say two footballers are talking. 

A: Tom, are you coming to training tomorrow?
B: Sorry, I can't make it. I need to revise for my exams.

A: Tom, are you coming to practice tomorrow?
B: Sorry, I can't make it. I need to revise for my exams.


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## Forero

PaulQ said:


> In which context?


In "during training" as in our examples.


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## PaulQ

Forero said:


> (unless the context makes it like "during dancing").


I think that 'dancing' in "Turning during dancing" is also a verbal noun. -> "Turning during slow dancing"  "Turning during slowly dancing"


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

PaulQ said:


> I think that 'dancing' in "Turning during dancing" is also a verbal noun. -> "Turning during slow dancing"  "Turning during slowly dancing"



I agree; for the second picture title it'd be "turning while slowly dancing" or "turning while dancing slowly".


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## Keith Bradford

Zaffy, you have misunderstood.  The words that end in -ing may either be the present participle of verbs, or nouns in their own right (or indeed adjectives).  For example:

I am *writing *a letter (verb)
I recognise his *writing *(noun)
He is *training *to be a singer (verb)
He has an hour's *training *this evening (noun)

In case no. 4, it is perfectly correct to use the word _during_, e.g: He was injured during *training *(noun).

[Cross-posted several hours late... ]


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## zaffy

Keith Bradford said:


> In case no. 4, it is perfectly correct to use the word _during_, e.g: He was injured during *training *(noun).



Ok, why then there is no "the" like, I believe, there should be when we talk about a training session at work?

-Suddenly, an employee collapsed during the training.
-Suddenly, a footballer collapsed during training.   

The first example was already posted and someone said 'the' was necessary.


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## zaffy

A BrE speaker would say "I took my son to a hockey training session last night", correct?


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## heypresto

I guess it would depend on what the hockey team calls their practice/training sessions.

I really don't think it matters much, they would both mean the same.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> I guess it would depend on what the hockey team calls their practice/training sessions.
> 
> I really don't think it matters much, they would both mean the same.



I didn't realise BrE uses "practice" too. I thought only "training session" was used by Brits.



And is 'practice' countable or not? I guess it isn't. Yet an AE speaker told me the first example works for him.

_We’ve had four *practices* this week. I’m exhausted.
We’ve had four *practice sessions* this week. I’m exhausted._


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## sound shift

zaffy said:


> A BrE speaker would say "I took my son to a hockey training session last night", correct?


If the son regularly attends these sessions, just "I took my son to hockey training last night" is more likely.


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> And is 'practice' countable or not? I guess it isn't.


Yes, it is. You can go to a football practice on Monday, a piano practice on Tuesday, and an archery practice on Thursday. That's three practices every week.


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## london calling

sdgraham said:


> I don't see "practice" as countable in AE_* in this context*_ (which doesn't mean it cannot be in other contexts)
> In AE, we would say, "I can't tonight, I have football practice."


Ditto in BE.


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## zaffy

I'm lost. Some of you say 'practice' is countable in this context and some of you say it isn't. 

_I can't tonight, I have football practice.   
I can't tonight, I have a football practice. _


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## heypresto

In _this context_, it's uncountable:

_I can't tonight, I have football practice.   
I can't tonight, I have a football practice. _


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## zaffy

And isn't context the same in your example? 

_You can go to *a* football practice on Monday, a piano practice on Tuesday, and an archery practice on Thursday. That's three practices every week.
_


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## heypresto

No. You may go to your/a (countable) football practice, but you would say 'I'm going to (uncountable) football practice.'

You might go to several (countable) practice*s*, but you'd say 'I'm going to XYZ (uncountable) practice before each one.

Context, context, context.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Context, context, context.


Yes, I do realise it,



heypresto said:


> You may go to a (countable) football practice, but you would say 'I'm going to (uncountable) football practice.'



but I really don't see the difference. Even the verb is the same.


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## heypresto

Idiom isn't always logical. Don't look for logic. Learn idiom.

A football training session = *a* football practice. Countable. 

But we say 'I'm going to football practice.' Uncountable.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Idiom isn't always logical. Don't look for logic. Learn idiom.
> 
> A football training session = *a* football practice. Countable.
> 
> But we say 'I'm going to football practice.' Uncountable.



I see now. Just an expression like "go to a work".



heypresto said:


> I can't tonight, I have football practice.
> I can't tonight, I have a football practice.



So for you 'practice' is also uncountable with the verb "have". Yet an AE speaker told me this: _We’ve had four *practices* this week. I’m exhausted.  _So there is a difference between AmE and BrE, isn't there?


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## heypresto

Again, context comes into it. 

I'd be perfectly happy to say 'We’ve had a practice/four practices this week. I’m exhausted.'  In this instance, it wouldn't be possible 'practice' to be uncountable.


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## zaffy

And do these work? Say I'm asking a sportsman.

_How many training sessions do you have per week?
How many practices do you have per week?_


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## heypresto

Yes.


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## Packard

I would "train for [an event]".  My training would consist of various workouts which are segments of the training program.  

I would decline to use "trainings" regardless of the situation.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I wouldn't say "piano practice", but "I have a piano lesson this evening." (vs. "I practice on the piano three evenings a week.").

I'd say "I train three times a week." meaning you do (sports) training on three occasions.


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## abluter

zaffy, in the examples you cite, Longman is not wrong in his instances, but "during training", where training is a noun, is quite normal and acceptable, like "I fell asleep during marking "(exam papers) or "I was all right in formation swimming but I injured myself during diving".


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## zaffy

There is one thing that still perplexes me. You say that "training" doesn't work as a noun when we refer to sports in the sense of training session. Yet _sound shift_ gave this example:


sound shift said:


> "I took my son to hockey *training* last night."



Sound shift clearly meant a training session. So why don't these work?

_I've got *training* today so I can't make it.
I'm going to *training* now but I'll be free tonight._


We can't "go to *training*" but we can "take somebody to *training*"?


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## zaffy

Say I'm asking a footballer. I guess the first conversation works in both AmE and BrE, while the second in BrE only. Am I right?

A: Tom, are you going to practice tonight?
B: Definitely, if I don't, the coach will kill me.

A: Tom, are you going to training tonight?
B: Definitely, if I don't, the coach will kill me.


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> You say that "training" doesn't work as a noun when we refer to sports in the sense of training session.


Who is "you"? And where 'you' say this?


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> Who is "you"? And where 'you' say this?



I can't find it now. I'll try to. I guess it was an AE speaker. They said "go to training" didn't work as it implies 'training' is a place. Well, looks like in BE we 'go to training' or we 'go to practice', while in AE 'we go to practice' only.


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## heypresto

I really think you should decide on which English you wish to learn and/or might be the most useful to you. I'm sure it would make things so much easier for you.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> I really think you should decide on which English you wish to learn and/or might be the most useful to you. I'm sure it would make things so much easier for you.


Yeah, I know. However, I'd like to have a general knowledge of English. I love English from both sides of the pond


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## zaffy

In the phrase "go to training", training is uncounbtle, isn't it?

_My son loves football and he goes to training three times a week_. (uncountable)

If we want to make 'training' countable, we need to use 'training session' or 'practice'.

_My son has three practices a week.
My son has three training sessions a week._

Am I right?


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> Say I'm asking a footballer. I guess the first conversation works in both AmE and BrE, while the second in BrE only. Am I right?
> 
> A: Tom, are you going to practice tonight?
> B: Definitely, if I don't, the coach will kill me.
> 
> A: Tom, are you going to training tonight?
> B: Definitely, if I don't, the coach will kill me.


Football players in the US use the words 'training' and 'practice' for different activities that all have to do with reaching, eventually, the goal of being a good football player. What specifically are you imagining that Tom will be doing at this parctice/training?


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## zaffy

Roxxxannne said:


> What specifically are you imagining that Tom will be doing at this parctice/training?


I meant a typical training session many sportsmen do in football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc. Maybe the coach is going to practise new tactics with his players, maybe there will be some short games with the ball to train movement coordination and there might be a little bit of exerices at the gym too.


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## Roxxxannne

American football players do strength training and fitness training, I think, in order to be faster, stronger, etc.  Strength training can involve weight lifting, lunges, squats, push-ups, etc. which players obviously don't do on the field in the middle of a game.
Practices (practice sessions) would include running plays to understand who does what and when, scrimmages, etc.

In AmE, you would say 'athletes' rather than 'sportsmen.'  Sportsmen in AmE are people who hunt and fish for recreation.


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## kentix

A: Tom, are you going to practice tonight?
B: Definitely. If I don't, the coach will kill me.

In line with Roxxxannne, this is standard AE usage for sessions with the whole team dressed in uniforms (they might be practice uniforms) and going through specific game skills with the coaches.

Training sessions usually refers to weight training and other physical conditioning, might not include the whole team at the same time, and uniforms wouldn't be worn. Workout clothes would be worn. Each person would be focused on their individual goals.


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## zaffy

Roxxxannne said:


> Practices (practice sessions) would include running plays to understand who does what and when, scrimmages, etc.





kentix said:


> Training sessions usually refers to weight training and other physical conditioning,



Thanks, that explains a lot. And do you agree with my understanding shown in #89?


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## kentix

I have never been on a team like that so my understanding is based on friends and TV.

_My son has three practices a week.
My son has three training sessions a week._

What I would expect to hear is:

_My son has practice three times a week.
My son has weight training three times a week._


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## zaffy

And what is the meaning/use of of "session" and "training" in this example? She is a Briton.

_Really what we’re looking at in the *session* is how, when athletes turn up to *training*._

I'm interested in her use of "training" in particular. Does she mean turning up at a training session/practice?


_

_


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## heypresto

That's not a complete sentence. Who is she? What is she talking about? Context?


Edit: Having watched the first two (very dreary) minutes of the video, it turns out she is a sports psychologist, and I think she's talking about sessions she has with her clients/students. These are sessions where she will talk about training and time management etc. They are not sports training sessions. So they are irrelevant to this thread.


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## e2efour

zaffy said:


> And what is the meaning/use of of "session" and "training" in this example? She is a Briton.
> 
> _Really what we’re looking at in the *session* is how, when athletes turn up to *training*._
> 
> I'm interested in her use of "training" in particular. Does she mean turning up at a training session/practice?
> 
> 
> _View attachment 57657_



I find it an unremarkable sentence.

She is talking about athletes not attending a training session.


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## e2efour

The phrase _a training session_ can be shortened to one word without an article.
For example, _She didn't turn up for yoga_ (a lesson) or _re-education_ (a process) or _football_ (a game).

But note that in BE we do not talk about _a training_, but just _training_ (e.g. _he arrived late for training_).


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## zaffy

And do these work? Say a football coach is complaining. I mean 'a training session' in all of them.  


_Quite a few players didn't turn up to training last night.
Quite a few players didn't turn up at training last night.
Quite a few players didn't turn up at practice last night._


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## e2efour

You also have the option of using the preposition _for_ (which I prefer).

I don't think I would use _at._


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## AmericanAbroad

sleepy sheep said:


> Hello,
> I'd like to make sure that the word "training" is uncountable and that it is always used in the form of "training (without "s") or "a training".
> 
> 1. Training can be done in various ways.
> 2. A training can be done in varoius ways.
> 3. Trainings can be done in various ways.
> 
> I think 1 and 2 are correct, and 3 is incorrect. Am I right?
> If 3 is a mistake, is there any chance that a native speaker of English make such a mistake? (Actually, it is described in a document from Australia.)
> 
> Replies from native speakers would be appreciated.


The plural form of trainings is rarely used but it is not wrongfully used when referring to a collection of different training programs.  It would be more elegant and more common usage for number 3 to read "Training PROGRAMS can be done in various ways."


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## SCujo

Welshie said:


> Not at all. It's just the way things are.
> 
> I have seen "training" used as a shorthand for "a training session", and therefore "trainings" becomes possible. I don't like this though, it doesn't sound good at all :S


Let me venture a reaction here. 
I think in "a training session", 'training' is being used as an adjective, (a session of training) so it's possible. Compare "a development plan". 
I won't dare to comment on "trainings", though. 
Thanks.


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## e2efour

I don't find it really helpful to describe two nouns (which, taken together, make up a *compound noun*) as an adjective plus noun. If you think of training as an adjective, it is not a full adjective since it cannot be used after a noun.

Words in Germanic languages are often used in this way, e.g. _football match, _and are often written as one word (even in English, as in _foot + ball = football_). But we can't say _the ball is foot _or _the match is football_, let alone _very foot_ or _very training,_ which is one of the tests for adjectives.

In English it can difficult to say that a word is definitely an adjective because adjectives have no morphological changes (e.g. they have no plural form or (as in Russian) inflected changes, where football match can be writtten as adjective + noun).

However, I agree with you that it is possible to say that a noun can function as an adjective or that an adjective can function as a noun.


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## bingaling

Definitely uncountable. Training or training courses if you want a plural that badly.


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## bingaling

sleepy sheep said:


> Hello,
> I'd like to make sure that the word "training" is uncountable and that it is always used in the form of "training (without "s") or "a training".
> 
> 1. Training can be done in various ways.
> 2. A training can be done in varoius ways.
> 3. Trainings can be done in various ways.
> 
> I think 1 and 2 are correct, and 3 is incorrect. Am I right?
> If 3 is a mistake, is there any chance that a native speaker of English make such a mistake? (Actually, it is described in a document from Australia.)
> 
> Replies from native speakers would be appreciated.


ONLY 1 is correct.


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## Keith Bradford

I tend to work on the principle that when two words are on offer and one is more than 100 times more frequent than the other, then the other is probably wrong.

So here are the figures: Google Books Ngram Viewer.  Furthermore, searching through the instances of _training_*s *shows that very few of the users are native speakers.


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## kentix

Keith Bradford said:


> Furthermore, searching through the instances of _training_*s *shows that very few of the users are native speakers.


I don't think there is evidence for that on the COCA results page. All the ones I looked at sound very much like sentences written by native AE speakers.

- I fully beleive in mandatory *trainings*. My previous VFD required 75% for all members, and 80% for officers as well as for firefighters that wished to maintain interior status, which IMO, is not unreasonable. My current combo department only requires 25% of volunteer personnel which I feel is way too low.

- Previously, the Dane County Clerk and the Madison City Clerk's offices had scheduled 11 separate *trainings* over the course of Sunday and Monday to ensure that poll workers in the state's second largest urban area would be equipped to properly run Tuesday's election.


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## Packard

_I am about to start my trainings.  It will consist of runnings, exercisings and stretchings.  _

My spell checker is having a field day with my proposed workout plan.   _Trainings_ sounds as wrong as _runnings, exercisings_ and _stretchings._


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## Keith Bradford

kentix said:


> I don't think there is evidence for that on the COCA results page. All the ones I looked at sound very much like sentences written by native AE speakers.
> 
> - I fully beleive in mandatory *trainings*. My previous VFD required 75% for all members, and 80% for officers as well as for firefighters that wished to maintain interior status, which IMO, is not unreasonable. My current combo department only requires 25% of volunteer personnel which I feel is way too low.
> 
> - Previously, the Dane County Clerk and the Madison City Clerk's offices had scheduled 11 separate *trainings* over the course of Sunday and Monday to ensure that poll workers in the state's second largest urban area would be equipped to properly run Tuesday's election.


I didn't use COCA, but Google Ngrams.  Ngrams give you the option of looking at the sources for every quotation, and the first authors I looked at had names like Artyom Utochkin, Mehmet Durnali, Murat Tas, Anibal Ollero, A.M. Kadri...  And again, the plural is 100 times less frequent than the singular.  That is not usual.


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## ewie

Keith Bradford said:


> I tend to work on the principle that when two words are on offer and one is more than 100 times more frequent than the other, then the other is probably wrong.




It's twelve years since this thread was opened and I still consider _trainings_ to be 100% wrong: I don't care who says it or how often they do so ~ it's just plain wrong. And with those words he turned on his heel and fell in a ditch.


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## sound shift

ewie said:


> It's twelve years since this thread was opened and I still consider _trainings_ to be 100% wrong: I don't care who says it or how often they do so ~ it's just plain wrong.


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## kentix

Keith Bradford said:


> Ngrams give you the option of looking at the sources for every quotation


As does COCA. Names (when available), links to original sources, everything.

Those sentences I quoted were clearly written by AE speakers. There is not a hint of non-native use. The second is clearly a journalistic source.

Unfortunately the linked page no longer exists, but this was captured as part of the quote: "Media Trackers is a non-profit, non-partisan investigative watchdog dedicated to promoting accountability in the media and government across Wisconsin through cutting edge research and communications initiatives."

Here is an example from the ASPCA (the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) on their official site.

"Today, the ASPCA incorporates information on blood 'sports' in the animal cruelty *trainings* it provides in New York's police academies as well as in police officer *trainings* around the country."

There are hundreds of examples. Yes, a few look non-native, but the vast majority don't.


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## Roxxxannne

I agree with kentix.  'Trainings' in some contexts is perfectly fine in AmE.  
_Trainings_ is short for _training session_ or some other phrase that means _event at which training is given_ in AmE. I've only heard it in reference to non-athletic events. For instance:
The state has mandated that all EMTs associated with volunteer fire departments learn about procedures for transporting COVID patients.  So someone came down from the state office and did a training with us yesterday, and in the next few days they'll be doing trainings in Ipswich, Sandwich, and Harwich.

In sports it's different, as far as I know.


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## kentix

Roxxxannne said:


> In sports it's different, as far as I know.


----------

