# "manipulative" equivalent to ludic



## wombat pete

as ludic refers to game/play, so ___ refers to manipulation or being manipulative.
How would this word properly be formed?
Thank you for your help in advance!


----------



## Cagey

Hello wombat pete. 

You have posted this in the Latin forum.  Does your question relate to Latin?  If so, please explain what you want to know.  

Or did you mean to post it in the English forum?


----------



## wombat pete

Yes, it's meant to be here, thanks.

Homo Ludens is used to indicate man whose chief function is play, playing games.
I'm trying to create an opposition: ludic devices (characterized by a particular definition of play, of a game) and manipulative devices (intended to influence the viewer/reader, to manipulate his perception, whether or not he's aware of it).
Ludic devices and... and _____ devices?


----------



## Scholiast

salve, wombat pete

It would be helpful if you could further explain the reasons behind your enquiry.

The primary stem with "ludic-" is actually _lud_-
And with "manipulative" is _man_-

This information is readily accessible from any etymological dictionary, whether online or at a local library.

If you want to have information in the Latin Forum here, may I suggest that you ask questions about real Latin, and not about 





> ludic devices (characterized by a particular definition of play, of a  game) and manipulative devices (intended to influence the viewer/reader,  to manipulate his perception, whether or not he's aware of it)



With the greatest respect, this is not the Forum you should be in.


----------



## wombat pete

I understand, strictly speaking, what the roots of those two words are. (Not because I know latin, but because it's kind of obvious, I think. Although "manipulative," is probably compound, I'd guess, but that's not crucial here.
What I'm looking for is help creating or finding an appropriate latinate term.  And I even if I looked up an appropriate root for, say, "influence," that wouldn't really assure me that my attempt to formulate an adjective from it would both (i) correct and (ii) bear the meaning (related to that root's general meaning) required by the situation.
Why is that inappropriate to this venue?
And if you think there's a better place to post such a question, it might be - no offense intended - more productive to suggest such a place than to simply say "not here."
It seems unlikely that you could find the question itself unreasonable, unless you've somehow misunderstood it.


----------



## Cagey

Is it correct to interpret your question this way? 

You want a Latin stem that would mean something like "make/ create"[?] or "effect"[?].  
If so, please clarify which sense of "manipulate" you are interested in ~ what sort of manipulation you mean, and what would be 'manipulated', and so on.

(Etymologically, _manipulate_ is related to Latin words meaning "hands", "handful".   I suspect the word itself distracts us from understanding what you have in mind.)


----------



## wombat pete

What I'm looking for is a second adjective, like "ludic" formed from a latin root, that would go well as a counter to "ludic" in the opposition of device-types I'm trying to name.
Ludic devices and ...ic [or another adjectival ending] devices.
Devices of play = ludic devices
vs.
devices of manipulation/influence = ______??? devices
I need to fill in that blank as effectively and elegantly as possible.
I appreciate the questions - did that succeed in making that any clearer?
Thanks!


----------



## Fred_C

“demagogic(al)”
“psychagogic(al)”
“epireutic”


----------



## relativamente

Decive can be translated as instrumentum or as organum.In consequence instrumentum ludicum is a decive for playing.
device of influence can be translated as instrumentum ad influendum
Manipulus had different meaning in Latin .I copy and paste from Short Lewis dictionary
manipulus
 A.  = ἁλτῆρες, pieces of metal held in the hand during gymnastic exercises, to increase the momentum of a leap or stroke, Cael. Aur. Tard. 5, 2, 38.—
B. Because the ancient Romans adopted a pole, with a handful of hay or straw twisted about it, as the standard of a company of soldiers; in milit. lang., a certain number of soldiers belonging to the same standard, a company, maniple; generally applied to infantry, and only by way of exception to cavalry: “miles pulcre centuriatus est expuncto in manipulo,” Plaut. Curc. 4, 4, 29:


----------



## wombat pete

Thanks, Fred C... I'm now backwards-engineering "epireutic" (help?), which SOUNDS terrific!

relativamente, thanks.  That was big help, too.  "ad influendum" is anothre possible solution.


----------

