# (trying) to teach (your) grandmother how to suck eggs



## Haroon

Hi all,

Can I find an Arabic proverb that tells the same meaning of such a proverb?

Thanks in Advance !!


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## Soos

What does this proverb mean?


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## HBZ55

I looked it up on the Internet, and it seems to mean "don't give needless advice". But there isn't any equivalent in Arabic that crosses my mind.


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## Andrew___

Yes that is correct.  However I have never heard it in reference to "grandmother" before.  We usually just say "teaching (him/her etc) how to suck eggs".


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## londonmasri

Soos said:


> What does this proverb mean?


 
'To teach your grandmother to suck eggs' means to teach someone very experienced how to do something very very simple i.e. your grandmother already knows how to 'suck eggs' but you are giving her advice that she doesn't need.

So dont give someone advice on how to do something, when they already know how to do it, and have known for a very very long time!!!

Dont give advice to someone wiser and more experienced than yourself!!!

(I dont actually know what 'suckign eggs' mean but I will try to search on google )


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## Soos

The only ones that come to my mind that are similar in meaning are:
أخفد صوتك وقوّي حجتك
Lower your voice and strengthen your argument.
راسه كبير وعقله صغير
His head is big and his mind is small (someone fat-headed and narrow-minded)
متل الجرس عدنب بغل
Like the bell on a mule's tail (someone who never stops talking!)
براسه موّال غنّاه
In his head is a song; he sang it (said of someone who had been wanting to say something for a long time and finally said it)​


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## Ghabi

Dear Soos, I like these sayings (especially the last one), but I don't think the meanings fit. The English proverb is actually like the French (I see that you're a French teacher) _On n'apprend pas aux vieux singes à faire des grimaces_ or _C'est Gros-Jean qui veut en remontrer à son curé_.


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## Josh_

First, I must say that I often think it is helpful to translate these phrases/proverb literally (or as literally as possible) into the other language in order for the reader to get a basic feel for the linguistic and/or stylistic form of the original. 

With that, I offer my translation of the English proverb into Arabic:
لا تحاولْ أن تعلّم جدتك مص البيض

Ok, I looked through a proverb book I have, not expecting to find any equivalents to this English proverb (which I had never heard before), but lo and behold, I did.  The author mentions that there are many equivalents to this in Arabic and below are the ones he included in his book.  Along with the proverbs I have included my attempts to translate them):

ـ"لا تُعلِّم اليَتيمَ البُكاء"ـ
 Don't teach the orphan [how] to cry/about crying.

ـ"إنَّ العَوانَ لا تُعلَّم الخِمرة"ـ_
"The middle-aged woman is not [to be] taught [how] to wear the خمار."_
(The author explains عَوان as: من النساء والبهائم هي المتوسّطة بين الصِغر والكبر. He also lists a verse from the Quran in which this word appears -- 2:68)
(الخمرة: لبس الخمار;ll _الخمار (al-khimaar_ ) -- the veil that covers the head and face).

ـ"كمُعلّمة أُمَّها البضاع"ـ
_"Like a teacher whose mother is sex"_?? 
(I have no idea about this one).
(The author explains البضاع as meaning الجماعl.)

ـ"لا تُعلِّم الشُرطي التَفحُّص ولا الزُطِّيَّ التَلصُّص"ـ
_"Don't teach the policeman [how] to seek information, nor the zuTTiyy [how] to be a thief."_
(The author explains the زُطِّ (_zuTT_) as being: طائفة من أهل الهند يُعرَفون في بلاد الشام بالنَوَر وهي لفظة هندية معرَّبة, a group of people from India known in the Levant as being tramps and vagabonds); it is an Arabized Hindi word.

وقول النبي: "رُبَّ حامِلِ فِقْهٍ إلى من هو أَفْقَهُ منه."ـ 
_"Few, or many, or some [try to?] carry (perhaps relay) [knowledge of] Islamic jurisprudence to those more knowledgeable in it than they."_
(I'm not quite sure about this one.  Perhaps if I could figure out the signification of this pesky word رُبَّ, which can apparently mean either many or few and must be deduced from context (more about that later in my thread about رُبَّ), maybe that would help.)

ETA: Please feel free to offer different and or better translations, especially if you think I've misunderstood something.


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## londonmasri

I happened to come accross an arabic textbook yesterday which translated _rubba rajul(in)_ as 'many a man' & _rubba marra(tin)_ as 'many a time'.


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## Mahaodeh

Josh_ said:


> ـ"لا تُعلِّم اليَتيمَ البُكاء"ـ
> Don't teach the orphan [how] to cry/about crying.


 
I don't think this works, this one is like لا تعلم المجدي على باب بيتك; "don't teach" here does not literally mean "teach", it means "don't encourage", or "don't teach him that it's OK with you when he does that".



Josh_ said:


> ـ"إنَّ العَوانَ لا تُعلَّم الخِمرة"ـ
> _"The middle-aged woman is not [to be] taught [how] to wear the خمار."_
> (The author explains عَوان as: من النساء والبهائم هي المتوسّطة بين الصِغر والكبر. He also lists a verse from the Quran in which this word appears -- 2:68)
> (الخمرة: لبس الخمار;ll _الخمار (al-khimaar_ ) -- the veil that covers the head and face).



 
 



Josh_ said:


> ـ"كمُعلّمة أُمَّها البضاع"ـ
> _"Like a teacher whose mother is sex"_??
> (I have no idea about this one).
> (The author explains البضاع as meaning الجماعl.)



 

This one also works, except that you did not translate it correctly; I think it's "like the woman that teaches her mother sex"; where her morther obviously knows all about it because she had her.
 
معلمّة هنا يعمل عمل اسم الفاعل وتقدير الجملة هو "كالتي تُعَلِّمُ أُمَّهَا البضاعَ" - أُمَّ مفعول به أول والبضاع مفعول به ثاني لأن الفعل علّم يتعدى دائما بمفعولين


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## yasmeena

Josh_ said:


> وقول النبي: "رُبَّ حامِلِ فِقْهٍ إلى من هو أَفْقَهُ منه."ـ
> _"Few, or many, or some [try to?] carry (perhaps relay) [knowledge of] Islamic jurisprudence to those more knowledgeable in it than they."_
> (I'm not quite sure about this one. Perhaps if I could figure out the signification of this pesky word رُبَّ, which can apparently mean either many or few and must be deduced from context (more about that later in my thread about رُبَّ), maybe that would help.)


 
Many may carry _[knowledge of] the Prophet's teachings to those who are more knowledgeable in the _science of _Islamic jurisprudence (who are better at understanding the teachings - the Hadiith - and thus drawing conclusions and legislations)._


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## ayed

Josh_ said:


> .
> ـ"كمُعلّمة أُمَّها البضاع"ـ
> _"Like a teacher whose mother is sex"_??


Josh! You reminded of a Badawi common saying:
*بنت تعلم أمها الزحير* ( A daughter teaches her mother how to give birth/deliver)is said when one teaches another how to do something as the taught is having well enough knowledge of the thing being done.


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## Haroon

Thanks everyone, really it is great, waiting for more .

By the way, I remembered  a well known proverb in EA that says:

كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين !!


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## Ghabi

Haroon said:


> By the way, I remembered  a well known proverb in EA that says:
> 
> كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين !!



It's been discussed in this thread.


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## londonmasri

Haroon said:


> Thanks everyone, really it is great, waiting for more .
> 
> By the way, I remembered a well known proverb in EA that says:
> 
> كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين !!


 
Thanks for this Haroon.

What is_ 7aaratu-ssiqaayeen_?


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## Josh_

Thank you Maha and Yasmeena for your input.

And I am glad I could remind you of a badawi saying, Ayed.



Mahaodeh said:


> I don't think this works, this one is like لا تعلم المجدي على باب بيتك; "don't teach" here does not literally mean "teach", it means "don't encourage", or "don't teach him that it's OK with you when he does that".


 I wonder, could it have two meanings, or could be understood both ways?  I suppose it is possible the author (who is a native speaker of Arabic) misunderstood the proverb, but in the introduction he mentions that he spent years researching all of the proverbs he included in his book in order to really understand them and find their equivalents in other languages.  

Anyway, as per the other proverbs and his explanation, I understood it as an orphan knowing all too well about crying, having spent much time crying (since he/she is alone in the world and has no mother or father) and thus does not need to be explained what crying is.



> This one also works, except that you did not translate it correctly; I think it's "like the woman that teaches her mother sex"; where her morther obviously knows all about it because she had her.
> 
> معلمّة هنا يعمل عمل اسم الفاعل وتقدير الجملة هو "كالتي تُعَلِّمُ أُمَّهَا البضاعَ" - أُمَّ مفعول به أول والبضاع مفعول به ثاني لأن الفعل علّم يتعدى دائما بمفعولين


Thanks for this.  Now it makes sense.  Sometimes I forget that اسم الفاعل also performs the action of the verb.



Haroon said:


> Thanks everyone, really it is great, waiting for more .
> 
> By the way, I remembered  a well known proverb in EA that says:
> 
> كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين !!


You're welcome, Haroon.  
I thought about كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين as a possible equivalent, but ruled it out.  It is true that it expresses a somewhat similar idea, however the application is different.  كمن يريد أن يبيع الماء في حارة السقايين is similar to "carry coals to Newcastle" in that it is applied to one who gives something (a physical object) to someone who already has it plentifully, or tries to sell something in an area in which it is plentifully available.  "Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs," on the other hand" is applied to someone who gives advise to some more experienced than he/she, or tries to impart knowledge to someone who is more knowledgeable about it than he/she is.



londonmasri said:


> Thanks for this Haroon.
> 
> What is_ 7aaratu-ssiqaayeen_?


You can check my post in the thread linked to by Ghabi for the meaning of this phrase.
​


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## Haroon

londonmasri said:


> Thanks for this Haroon.
> 
> What is_ 7aaratu-ssiqaayeen_?




culturally speaking, some centuries ago, people of the same craft may have lived in one area, or near each other, so a district may have been called by the name of its inhabitants or their craft, so حارة السقايين is the place where - mostly- a large numbers of water carriers live, and that is the last place you may try to sell( or carry ) water there


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## Ghabi

londonmasri said:


> What is_ 7aaratu-ssiqaayeen_?



As to the سقايين, you can find more about them in EW Lane's _Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians_ (Ch. 14).


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## Mahaodeh

Josh_ said:


> Thank you Maha and Yasmeena for your input.


 
You're welcome.



Josh_ said:


> I wonder, could it have two meanings, or could be understood both ways? I suppose it is possible the author (who is a native speaker of Arabic) misunderstood the proverb, but in the introduction he mentions that he spent years researching all of the proverbs he included in his book in order to really understand them and find their equivalents in other languages.
> 
> Anyway, as per the other proverbs and his explanation, I understood it as an orphan knowing all too well about crying, having spent much time crying (since he/she is alone in the world and has no mother or father) and thus does not need to be explained what crying is.


 
Well, I could be wrong, but proverbs usually "hit the nail on the head", meaning that they give a small phrase that gives a very strong example to what one wants to say and I have several notes regarding this meaning.
 
First of all, it's seems to be more like a حكمة than a مَثَل as it tells you what to do. Second, teaching an orphan crying is no different than teaching anyone else... why didn't the proverb say newborn, that would be stronger because that's basically all what newborn babies do.
 
Third, orphans, which are children (once they become adults they are no longer orphans), don't cry that much at all - I've been around some, some were close relatives of mine; they get very sad, they grieve and they miss their parent(s) but they don't cry that much at all.
 
It's more likely that someone that lost a child would spend his time crying than a child who lost a parent, children are more interested in playing and they can't help it no matter who dies or how sad they are. The child would not cry all the time unless you taught him to by showing him attention when he does and giving him what he wants.
 
That's basically why I didn't feel that it gives the right meaning. They way the proverb was said also implies that - it says "don't teach [read: encourage] an orphan to cry", not "like someone teaching an orphan to cry". The first one is a piece of advice but the proverb you want is not advice, it's showing a similar (although stronger) case.
 
I still could be wrong of course, it's not like there are no proverbs at that don't make much sense.


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## Ghabi

I just found this one in Egyptian:

 جا الخروف يعلم ابوه الرعى


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