# "Shaygetz" used to refer to a misbehaving child



## Codinome Shlomo

Hello.

Is it common to refer to a misbehaving child as a shaygetz in Israel?

Thanks.


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## raful

Today you can find it only in Ultra-Orthodox religious (kharedim) circles


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## origumi

raful said:


> Today you can find it only in Ultra-Orthodox religious (kharedim) circles


And yet most people would understand the term... uhmm... at least over age of 30 maybe.


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## raful

There is even an alternative rock band named שייגעצ


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## airelibre

How come the tsadi is not in final form?


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## arielipi

as with many borrowed words that remain as in the original language that end with a final letter, the regular form remains.
This is most prominent in words that end in p, k.


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## airelibre

Yes, that makes sense because סקייפ sounds different to סקייף and מברוכ sounds different to מברוך, but שייגעצ and שייגעץ?


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## origumi

arielipi said:


> as with many borrowed words that remain as in the original language that end with a final letter, the regular form remains.


But the usual Yiddish spelling is שייגעץ and this is also the natural Hebrew spelling.


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## Egmont

airelibre said:


> How come the tsadi is not in final form?


I don't know if this has anything to do with the answer to your question, but from 1932 to 1961 in the then Soviet Union, Yiddish was written without final letters. The name of the author Sholem Aleichem, who wrote his own name שלום־עליכם (in the Hebrew spelling), was written שאלעמ-אלייכעמ in Soviet publications during that era (using the usual Yiddish _mater lectonis_ letters to indicate vowel sounds). I don't know if this has anything to do with how the band spells its name, but there might be a connection. Maybe one of the band members asked his grandmother how the word is written in Yiddish and that's when and where she learned to spell? That's pure speculation on my part, of course.


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## arielipi

origumi said:


> But the usual Yiddish spelling is שייגעץ and this is also the natural Hebrew spelling.



The regular form [=of the "final" letter] (is being written and that is what) remains.


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## amikama

airelibre said:


> How come the tsadi is not in final form?


Maybe because it's how the band members decided to spell it?  It reminds me of Metal umlaut.


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