# can't half, wouldn't half



## Agogiatis

Hi, 
Does anybody know what does this phrase mean?

You can't half swim.


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## agl126

It's an expression that in this case means 'You can't swim very well'.

I would try not to use it too often, it's not very common!


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## PaulQ

I am quite surprised that Australian English should have such a meaning and would like confirmation.

In BE, it means exactly the opposite and is not uncommon - 
*
You/he/they/we (but only rarely "I") can't half + verb* is an informal, idiomatic expression of approving amazement that the person does something (*verbs)* so very well.

"Well, I thought I was a good swimmer but you beat me by 10 metres; *you can't half swim*!"

"Look at him go up that tree! *He can't half climb!*"

"He's had five beers already but he still seems sober; *he can't half drink*!"

Compare:

A: "Can he swim?" 
B: "*Not half!*" = He certainly can!


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## agl126

How incredibly interesting! Maybe I'm wrong, was just going from gut feeling. I'm fairly sure I've heard it used with a negative connotation. But wow, guess you _do_ learn something new every day!


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## cycloneviv

I'm surprised too! I definitely understand it in the UK sense. There are a number of previous threads on similar topics, but I can't get them to load properly at the moment. They're not half hard to find! I had to trawl through all the topic titles including the word "half".

I'll try and find a few, but in the meanwhile this is in the Word Reference dictionary under "half":

3 _Brit. informal _to an extreme degree: _she didn't half flare up!

_Here we go:

didn't half like
didn't half look suspicious at me, he didn't
half do with
To not half get on somebody's nerves.
You don't half look like....


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## Hau Ruck

It is much more common in BE than in AE.

The only examples that come to mind in AE are "he's not half bad" or "don't half ass it".  

Other than that, we don't use the "half" reference as often as the BE speakers do.


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## Thomas Tompion

I confirm the view that in BE it means You can swim very well.

As a matter of interest, in AE does _don't half ass it _mean _ass it a lot_, or _don't ass it much_?  I don't ass things much, indeed I've never encountered the verb before but am pleased to do so now.  The WR dictionary doesn't have an entry for_ ass,_ the verb, which is very remiss.


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## Hau Ruck

Thomas Tompion said:


> I confirm the view that in BE it means You can swim very well.
> 
> As a matter of interest, in AE does _don't half ass it _mean _ass it a lot_, or _don't ass it much_?  I don't ass things much, indeed I've never encountered the verb before but am pleased to do so now.  The WR dictionary doesn't have an entry for_ ass,_ the verb, which is very remiss.



"Don't half ass it", in AE, means "don't be lazy/don't do a poor job of the task".

My guess is that "ass", as a verb, originates from BE.  "Don't half ass it" is about the only example of an AE speaker using ass as a verb that I can think of. However, In BE (most likely a more present-day generation), it is quite common to hear people saying "I can't be arsed" (be bothered to do something).

I have no idea what its true origin is, and as such, "ass" could very well be the noun form of "ass" referring to a donkey.  Mind you, this is complete speculation on my part; I've always assumed "ass" to be a verb in "don't half ass it".


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## Thomas Tompion

Are you sure it's not _don't half-ass it_, Filsmith?


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## Hau Ruck

Thomas Tompion said:


> Are you sure it's not _don't half-ass it_, Filsmith?



"Don't half-ass" it seems to be correct.   Before today I'd only ever said it; this was the first time I can recall writing it out, to be honest.  Hyphenated indeed it seems.


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## ewie

I thought we were talking about _can't half [vb.]_ ...


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## pwmeek

*Can't half swim* seems almost like a double-negative-for-emphasis. "You can't _not_ go." = "You _must_ go." seems similar to "You can't _half_ swim." = "You (way _more_ than half) _can_ swim." Could "half" be considered to be a negative in this use?

<deleted 45 minutes of musing on "half-ass".>


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## Loob

pwmeek said:


> *Can't half swim* seems almost like a double-negative-for-emphasis. "You can't _not_ go." = "You _must_ go." seems similar to "You can't _half_ swim." = "You (way _more_ than half) _can_ swim." Could "half" be considered to be a negative in this use?


Possibly, Pete - and respondents to previous threads have certainly suggested that the logic of this particular BrE idiom is "not half" > "whole".  All I can say is that that doesn't _feel_ right to me...

For me, it's just an idiom which doesn't need to make logical sense: a bit like "too right!"


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## wandle

'Not half' (meaning 'to a really great degree') seems to me a bit like 'in no uncertain terms' (meaning 'in very definite language'). Granted, 'not half' is not a double negative, but it is halfway there.
Thus 'you can't half swim' means 'you can _not half_ swim', which means 'you can swim really well'.
And then, because 'can not' is by convention combined into 'cannot', it becomes in the short form 'can't half'.


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## Kevin Beach

I have always understood that it was a BrE expression and that it originated in Cockney Speech. It's part of the British phenomenon of understatement, i.e. understating something in order to emphasise it.

"You can't 'arf _[=Cockney half]_ swim" means that your ability is not just half good, it's "totally good". Whatever the activity is, the statement is a great compliment. However it's still more or less in the colloquial register and not part of formal speech.


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## Kefirka

_“My goodness,” she said, smoothing the fur on her right-hand glove. “I *wouldn’t half like *a cup of tea!”_
_“Would you quarter like it, though?” asked Michael._
_“There is no call for you to be funny,” said Mary Poppins, in such a voice that Michael felt that, indeed, there wasn’t.
_
I don't understand this phrase  It's so strange...


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## dreamlike

I'd say that Michael suggested that they have a cup of tea, but Mary didn't feel like drinking one, what she expressed by saying "I wouldn't half like a cup of tea". I can imagine such a context for this:

- Would you like a cup of tea?
- I wouldn't half like a cup of tea (half being usef for emphasis). 

(I've never seen it before, it does seem a bit strange to me, too)


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## sound shift

Since this is Mary Poppins, we are dealing with BrE, in which "I wouldn't half like a cup of tea" means "I would really like a  cup of tea", "I'm dying for a cup of tea", etc.


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## Loob

dreamlike said:


> I'd say that Michael suggested that they have a  cup of tea, but Mary didn't feel like drinking one,


Sorry dreamlike, that's not right.

Surprising though it may seem, in BrE "I wouldn't half like a cup of tea!" means "I would really like a cup of tea!" 

This previous thread also leads to several other earlier discussions of this idiom: You can't half swim. _{*Later edit*: link removed as threads now merged}_

EDIT: cross-posted with sound shift.


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## dreamlike

So, it means the exact opposite. Sorry for having misled you, Kefirka. 

Is this phrase in common use, Sound Shift, Loob?


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## sound shift

Yes, dreamlike, particularly with older people (and particularly in London, I think). It's informal/colloquial. You are unlikely to hear it at a posh dinner party.


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## Kefirka

*Loob*, *sound shift*, why that "half" is needed ? Half of what ?


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## dreamlike

"Not half" is taken to mean "more than a whole", which I found out above. I, for one, would read it to mean "Not even in the slightest", but you just have to take some things for granted - sometimes, language defies logics.

(that's one of the weirdest expressions I've encountered since I started learning English)


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## sound shift

Well, no-one teaches us the derivation of expressions like this, but I _suppose _it means "My desire for a cup of tea is not small but great."


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## Loob

It's just an idiom, Kefirka.  Some people argue that "not half" implies "whole" (see, for example, the last couple of posts in the thread I linked to).  Personally, I think it's best just to accept it.

....
Darn it, cross-posted with SS again - and with dreamlike!


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## Kefirka

would*n’t* half like = would *not half* like = would *very* like, am I right ?


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## sound shift

Yes, that is the sense, but "would very like" is not quite correct. "... would very much like" is correct, though.


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## Kefirka

*sound shift*, thank you  
Thank you, all 

PS But the phrase is still strange...


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## wandle

The most common original use of the phrase, I believe, is the exclamation 'Not half!' in answer to a question.
_'Would you like an ice cream, Bert?' 'Not half!'_ (or more likely abbreviated: _'Like an ice cream, Bert?' 'Not 'alf!'_)

This means 'I would not half like an ice cream' which means 'I would totally like an ice cream'.

It is essentially an understatement, used for emphasis.


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## dreamlike

But, without knowing the meaning of the idiom, I think it wouldn't be _very_ stupid on my part to understand it the other way round? 

_- 'Would you like an ice cream, Bert?' '
- Not half!' = _not even in the slightest


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## Hau Ruck

I'd just like to add, that this is mostly a BrE thing. The only Americans that I've heard use it, basically have "stolen" its usage from their UK friends.  

A majority of native American English speakers would understand this phrase incorrectly, just as many others have.


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## Pertinax

If you do something "by halves" then you do it "half-heartedly".
I have always understood "wouldn't half like" as a related idiom, meaning that you want it not half-heartedly but whole-heartedly.

According to my son, the expression does not have currency in AuE.  He assumed that it meant "less than half-heartedly" like most of the AmE posters.

It reminds me of the expressions "not a little" and "not a bit". The one means "a lot", and the other "very little".  But it is not self-evident which is which.


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## dreamlike

I would take it to mean "less than half-heartedly", and feel somewhat justified seeing that AmE posters would read it to mean the same. 

It's a weird idiom indeed.


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## lucas-sp

It's no weirder than other idioms.

I understand it similarly to Pertinax. The speaker is saying "I wouldn't [half like] X" = "I would [wholly like] X." (You could compare this to a sentence like: "I don't _like_ it - I _love_ it!!!") By negating a weaker or lukewarm desire (a half-liking), the speaker implies a very great desire. It's a litotes.

I understand this phrase perfectly to mean "I would really like." But I've read a lot of BE, I suppose, and even (shudder) conversed with some of its speakers!


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## natkretep

​Mod note: Kerfika's thread (starting at post 15) has been merged with an earlier thread. Please read above for more comments. Post 5 contains links to other similar threads.


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## Thomas Tompion

Pertinax said:


> If you do something "by halves" then you do it "half-heartedly".
> I have always understood "wouldn't half like" as a related idiom, meaning that you want it not half-heartedly but whole-heartedly.
> 
> According to my son, the expression does not have currency in AuE.  He assumed that it meant "less than half-heartedly" like most of the AmE posters.
> 
> It reminds me of the expressions "not a little" and "not a bit". The one means "a lot", and the other "very little".  But it is not self-evident which is which.


This raises the problem we were trying to deal with earlier about avoiding hypenated forms and the difference betwee 'you didn't half finish it' and 'you didn't half-finish it'.

As Ewie rather sententiously, for him, pointed out earlier, when we were talking about half-assing things, we are concerned here with the first of these, rather than with the second, hyphenated, version.


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## dreamlike

lucas-sp said:


> I understand it similarly to Pertinax. The speaker is saying "I wouldn't [half like] X" = "I would [wholly like] X."



But it works both ways since two halves are, by definition, even in size - so *half* is as close to being full, as it is to being empty. There is a very common saying in Polish, which reads _is the glass half empty or half full_? 

So when I hear one say "I wouldn't half like X", bearing in mind what I've written above, the meaning is not clear to me, since there are two ways of understanding it - each of them being equally good. Now, having read this thread, I'm familiar with the meaning - but I can't say it makes much sense to me.


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## Hau Ruck

dreamlike said:


> ..I'm familiar with the meaning - but I can't say it makes much sense to me.



That is the "joy" of idioms.    They often don't make sense when thought it put into them. They are just things that natives come to be familiar with.  Best not to over think it and just accept it with rote memory.


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## dreamlike

Yes, I guess that's the wisest thing to do, but what can I do, I tend to overanalyse things  But do you agree that it may be understood in two ways, without knowing the meaning, do you agree with the points I have made in my previous post, Fil?


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## Hau Ruck

dreamlike said:


> ...do you agree with the points I have made in my previous post, Fil?



I most definitely agree.    No matter how many times I hear an explanation, it still seems to me, that it should have a different meaning than it does.


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## pwmeek

And just to make things complicated for AE listeners, it often sounds like "*...not 'arf like...*" to American ears.


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## dreamlike

I guess that adds to the complexity * I'm not half the man I used to be* - by the same token, this should mean "I'm exactly the man I used to be, or even more"


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## panjandrum

dreamlike said:


> I guess that adds to the complexity * I'm not half the man I used to be* - by the same token, this should mean "I'm exactly the man I used to be, or even more"


That is not equivalent to the earlier examples.
Here you are saying "I'm not half <noun phrase>."
In the topic example, "You can't half swim," and similar examples where the idiom implies complete mastery/excellence, you have "You can't half <verb phrase>."
You can't extrapolate meaning from the idiomatic context.


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## dreamlike

Yes, there's clearly a difference, a big one, between "You can't half" and "You're not half", but I thought not big enough to change the meaning. 

Actually, I knew the real meaning, since it comes from one of The Beatles's songs  I just wanted to make sure.


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## djmc

"I wouldn't half want a cup of tea" = "I could murder (for) a cup of tea". Very common in the UK meaning that I really want it. The passage from Mary Poppins cited by Kerfika is deliberate word play.


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## PaulQ

"I wouldn't half want a cup of tea"  "I wouldn't half want like a cup of tea"


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## Hau Ruck

"I wouldn't half like to see an end to all these 'wouldn't half' threads/posts." 

Did my AmE self pose that correctly?


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## panjandrum

Filsmith said:


> "I wouldn't half like to see an end to all these 'wouldn't half' threads/posts."
> 
> Did my AmE self pose that correctly?


Indeed it did


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## sound shift

panjandrum said:


> Indeed it did


In other words - "Not half it did!"


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## Kevin Beach

I wouldn't half be glad if people would read the earlier posts on this now-merged thread, to understand the explanation for the phrase.

For your next test, you must accurately explain the title of the 1980s British sitcom "It ain't 'arf 'ot Mum"


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## natkretep

Thanks, KB.  I'd forgotten this one. Here's wikipedia on the 70s sitcom

_It Ain't Half Hot Mum_


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## q3mi4

The title comes from the first episode in which young Gunner Parkins writes home to his mother in England.
Parkins references the show's title in the first ever episode when he signs off a letter to his mother with the words "I've been in India now two days, and it ain't half hot, Mum."  
does that mean "it's very hot", then? and how is this different from "I'm not half the man I used to be"?


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## velisarius

Yes, it means "It's extremely hot". It's a colloquial and idiomatic expression.

_He can't half run!_ (He runs extremely fast.)

_I'm not half the man I used to be _is a different expression, and it's standard English. It means roughly "I used to be in a much better state than I am now. I'm not nearly as strong/happy/confident, etc.", according to context.


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## lingobingo

Does anyone say “I’m *not* half the man I used to be”? If so, I’m pretty sure it’s a misunderstanding/misuse of statements such as “Since the accident,* he’s half the man he used to be*”. (An expression regularly used as a pun to describe someone having lost a lot of weight!).

But, yes, as repeatedly confirmed in this thread, not half = very much so.

Would you like a whisky? — Not half!​


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## velisarius

I think I remember a song with those very words, lingo. _There's a shadow hanging over me..._

Ah yes, it was "I Believe in Yesterday".
https://www.google.com/search?q=lyr.....69i57j0l4.8183j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## lingobingo

Well, mathematically it works either way – that’s for sure!


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## Phil-Olly

Is it worth spelling out that in AE the expression "It's not half bad..." means it's very good.
In BE, the expression "It's not half good .."means the same thing.  It's very good.
Furthermore, in BE the expression allows any adjective, "It's not half hot" (very hot) "It's not half dear"  (very expensive) etc.
This seems to be entirely consistent with "He's not half a good swimmer " (He's a very good swimmer)
However, "He's/I'm not half the man I used to be.." is entirely different, as explained in #43, though you could say, "I'm not half knackered."


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## velisarius

But we don't say "It's not half good/hot/dear", do we?  Is that what you say in Scotland? We say "It ain't half good" etc. or if we are a bit posh  we might say "It isn't half hot" etc.


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## bennymix

If 'I wouldn't half like'  means 'I really would like' [e.g. post #45], what about the positive,  "I would half like"?

*LivLit (Johnson, Drummond, Cope) - ilXor.com*
https://ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=15055
Mar 19, 2003 - 12 posts - ‎6 authors
_I'd half-like_ to read McCulloch's memoirs but just KNOW they'd be a whole load of self-mythicising drivel. Maybe it's a Liverpool thing and they'll ...


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## Phil-Olly

velisarius said:


> But we don't say "It's not half good/hot/dear", do we?  Is that what you say in Scotland? We say "It ain't half good" etc. or if we are a bit posh  we might say "It isn't half hot" etc.


All variations.  "Ain't" ain't quite so common in Scotland.  So we have:
"It's not half good / It isn't half crazy / It wasn't half hot" as well as the occasional "ain't"


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