# Voice of past participle



## Arabus

Hello,

Past participles formed with _-miş _and _-dik_ seem to have sometimes passive and sometimes active meanings.

E.g.

_Dolmuş _means "filled" (passive meaning)

But

_koşmuş _means "who ran" (active meaning)

Is there a rule or is it just arbitrary? I guess intransitive verbs always form active-voice participles?​


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## kenjoluma

It has nothing to do with neither -miş nor -dik.

Dolmak is an intransitive verb, which means 'get filled'. The verb itself indicates the passivity. That's all. If you say 'doldurmuş', then it can be 'filling', with activity that you are talking about.

Just remember -miş can go to the end of any kind of verb.


ps. I'm not sure what 'active-voice participles' really means. But you can see my point, though.


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## Arabus

kenjoluma said:


> Dolmak is an intransitive verb, which means 'get filled'. The verb itself indicates the passivity.



Is that true? I checked two dictionaries and they don't agree with what you say.

Perhaps you meant to say that _dolmak _can be both active and passive, and that this participle has the passive meaning.


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## maviliazman

I think both of them are active.
Passive forms should be doldurulmuş and koşulmuş.
Dolmak is intransitive, doldurmak is transitive. "Birşey" dolar, "birşeyi" doldururuz.
Koşmak can be transitive and intransitive. Koşulmak is the passive form.


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## kenjoluma

Oh really? I don't know. My dictionary (I use http://www.turkishdictionary.net/?word=dolmak) says dolmak is passive.

I'm only as good at Turkish as my dictionary lets me. 

Anyway, I am very sure that -miş has nothing to do with 'active' or 'passive' of verbs. -miş is not an indicator to shift verb's 'voice'.


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## Arabus

kenjoluma said:


> Oh really? I don't know. My dictionary (I use http://www.turkishdictionary.net/?word=dolmak) says dolmak is passive.
> 
> I'm only as good at Turkish as my dictionary lets me.
> 
> Anyway, I am very sure that -miş has nothing to do with 'active' or 'passive' of verbs. -miş is not an indicator to shift verb's 'voice'.



http://www.langtolang.com/?selectMe...lectTo=English&submit=Search&selectMenuLang=1

http://translate.google.com/?js=n&p...=1&sl=tr&tl=en&text=Dolmak&file=#tr|en|Dolmak


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## Arabus

maviliazman said:


> I think both of them are active.
> Passive forms should be doldurulmuş and koşulmuş.
> Dolmak is intransitive, doldurmak is transitive. "Birşey" dolar, "birşeyi" doldururuz.
> Koşmak can be transitive and intransitive. Koşulmak is the passive form.



Thanks....


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## kenjoluma

> http://translate.google.com/?js=n&p...=1&sl=tr&tl=en&text=Dolmak&file=#tr|en|Dolmak



Ta.


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## Arabus

kenjoluma said:


> Ta.



What?


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## Arabus

Sorry I didn't see -ul- in your examples. My mistake.


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## Arabus

Things are clear now. Thanks...


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## maviliazman

> My dictionary (I use http://www.turkishdictionary.net/?word=dolmak) says dolmak is passive.


Of the three definitions, I'd say doldurulmak is definitely passive. I think why you think it says dolmak is passive is the "be filled" part. To me it can be read as "be full".
*dolmak* 
*1.* to get full, be filled. 
*doldurmak*                                                                     /ı/ 
*1.* to fill, fill up, stuff. 
*doldurulmak* 
*1.* to get filled, get filled up, get stuffed. 



> Anyway, I am very sure that -miş has nothing to do with 'active' or 'passive' of verbs. -miş is not an indicator to shift verb's 'voice'.


Exactly.


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## kenjoluma

Arabus said:


> What?



Oh, I mean, 'Thank you'.
Sorry for my englishness. haha.


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