# No more Collins



## Dorian

I was interested to see the message from Mike Kellogg about Collins dictionaries and WordReference.com parting ways.

The fact that WordReference used Collins was the reason I put it on my "Favourites" list in the first place.  I am always suspicious of no-name products, especially on the internet, and a site that advertises "zillions of words in billions of languages" doesn't impress me.  I want to know who compiled the words and the meanings.

In English, I trust and have copies of the OED and Merriam-Webster.  Oxford is very, very different from Webster.  I understand those differences.  I would not trust a grocery store branded dictionary, unless I knew for sure that the original source was Oxford or Webster.

In French, I have my ancient, outdated Larousse and a modern Collins-Robert.  Several people I know who are studying French seriously also use Collins-Robert.  I feel I can trust it.  Can I trust the new WordReference French dictionary?  I don't know.  Mike says that there will be lots and lots of words in it, which is fine, but he doesn't say what the authority is.  

For a while, it's going to slow me down.  I've been in the habit of flipping rapidly between MS Word and WordReference, as I check words or meanings.  I'll now start double checking many items in my printed dictionary.

I hope Mike can reveal the source of all the new words and meanings he's promising.  As for whether it stays on my Favourites list, I hope so, mais on verra.


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## mkellogg

Hi Dorian,

This is going to be an interesting experiment.  Today the French and Italian dictionaries are the result of the work of a number of translators.  Is it as good or are the entries as correct as other dictionaries?  No, not yet, but they soon will be much better.

Once we are finished with the reviewing process, I will open up the dictionary to criticism and corrections from visitors to the site.  It won't take long for the dictionaries to become quite good this way.

So, in the meantime take your translations here "with a grain of salt" (an expression definitely not in the old dictionary, and not in this new one...*yet *). I encourage you and others to add your critical eye to helping this become an extremely good reference work.

Mike


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## LadyBlakeney

Mike, could you please tell us if all the dictionaries (English to Spanish, to French, etc.) are affected by the change?

Thank you in advance.


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## mkellogg

Hi Lady B,

Yes, all the dictionaries are affected, but in different ways.  Spanish gets the Espasa dictionaries for now, plus some other improvements in a couple of months.  French and Italian get new dictionaries/word lists, and German has been dropped.  Also, we have a new monolingual English dictionary.


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## Focalist

Hmm. As an up-till-now frequent user of the site, I have to say I am very disappointed by the apparent falling out of the site owner and Collins.

An enormous plus of Wordreference has been the consistency of standards which I have always thought was guaranteed by the Collins coupling. (Collins, be aware that you have thrown away a huge publicity tool here: I own a number of Collins dictionaries, and using Wordreference has always led me in the past to think that they were an excellent choice when considering a new purchase).

How reliable are the alternative sources now being used? I expect we'll just have to wait and see. But, once again, this new development makes me somewhat despondent.

Focalist.


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## Delirium

OMG!  What happened?  Just now is that I noticed something weird going on, I thought hey the entries look different... wait a minute... Espasa?  What happened to Collins?   I don't know when this happened, I have been a little absent-minded (more than usual) in the last few days (also, I don't check these forums much, no time at all  )...

It's not that Espasa is not respectable, but, as an everyday user of the site, for more than 3 or 4 years now, I had come to rely *heavily * on Collins... and now...    well, I guess, we'll see.

In the mean time, I want to thank Mike again for the wonderful job he's been doing 

~*Tess*~


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## Allegra

The change-over is a monumental job and I am amazed at how far it has gone already. I used the Collins Italian-English online frequently throughout every day. I, like others, use the book form of the Collins New Standard Dictionary for Ital-English translation and find a few things essential, which I hope can be continued. Without them I may need to go back to the paper version for most things   

1. Pronunciations in IPA are essential. In Italian, at least a tonic accent marker (strong syllable) is needed. In French the IPA is even more important to English speakers!

2. Usage examples. Knowing an exact word-to-word equivalent can be nice, but it often does not serve completely. In Italian, do I need to say "...continuare _di_ fare qualcosa" or do I say "...continuare _a_ fare" or ....? Where do pronouns, if any, go in the sentence with this word?   Take, for example, this from the current WordReference Italian-English Dictionary:
insomma  adj so so 
insomma  conj therefore 
insomma  conj all in all 
insomma  conj so 
insomma  excl for heaven's sake 

I would say the primary use of this is as an adverb: 'in short' or 'to summarize'. Yes, like 'therefore' but that's not a conjunction, is it? In the Collins, the use as an exclamation is explained: "Come stai?" --"insomma...." meaning "how are you doing? " "well....not too bad"  That's sure a whole lot more useful information.

This is just an example of how usage can change which word or meaning is chosen. I hope somehow the usage examples can be included.

3. Idioms and slang are very difficult to translate on their own. Keyword indexing of idiomatic expressions and their usage (and how casual/formal polite/vulgar) are essential.

Good luck -- In bocca al lupo (which is not in the new online dictionary yet)


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## Tremblay

I'm brand new to this whole on-line forum thing.  As a matter of fact, I've never been to ANY other forum or board or chat this or that...  That would make this my first experience.  I REALLY liked the old dictionary and used it on a daily basis.  My favorite is the downloadable tool enabling one to select a word, right-click and get the definition or translation.  Awesome tool!  

My main reason for posting this note here, however, is to thank the "owners" of this site for even offering the site and to express how truly impressed I am with how this forum is organized and all the functionality it offers.  

Jon from Minnesota


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## OliverS

I find the absence of Collins to be a disaster.  I frequently used it for German and less frequently for French and Spanish, when reading and writing in the second language.  Accuracy, which others have mentioned is one thing.  What I found most helpful about Collins, was the usage examples.

Oliver


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## TexasT

mkellogg said:
			
		

> Yes, all the dictionaries are affected, but in different ways. Spanish gets the Espasa dictionaries for now, plus some other improvements in a couple of months.


First of all, I do thank you very much for the service you've provided all this time!! It has been a wonderful resource up until now, and I will definitely miss it. Too bad you couldn't work things out with the Collins people - they wouldn't even go for a pay site? (Although for pay, I might prefer the unabridged version rather than the concise, depending on price.)

The Espasa is OK, but I certainly won't be relying on it as I did with the Collins, which I always consulted before turning to my paper dictionaries. Having to use my paper dictionaries pretty much exclusively will slow me down considerably, until I can get what I need elsewhere online or on CD.




> Also, we have a new monolingual English dictionary.


So I noticed. I'm not impressed.

TexasT


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## TexasT

Mike,

In another (now locked) thread, you said:


> Collins was no longer interested in having their dictionaries offered for free on the Internet.


Are they offering them for pay? If so, where? If not, who can I contact at Collins about this?

Thanks!

TexasT


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## mkellogg

Hey everyone,

Thank you all for your kind words...at least to those who have actually said kind words.  And thanks for the good advice Allegra.  You should see continual improvements over the next few weeks.

Collins is a business and everyone must understand that they are going to do what they feel is best for the business.  We might not agree with it, but they do what they feel is best.  No amount of yelling, screaming or demanding that I put the German dictionary back up will work...  (TexasT, I don't know what Collins' plans are.)

Anyway, For the three remaining dictionaries, we have taken a step back, sure.  Despite this, I am pretty sure that within a few months the site will be as good or better than it was before.

-Mike


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## Ladydean

Hello, 

I have been withholding my comments in order to see what changes would be made to the site and to give myself a chance to read what others had posted in response to the changes. I have to join in with everyone who says they are disappointed to see that Collins is no longer interested in collaborating with wordreference. The utility of the site for someone who speaks multiple languages was immense. Now, I am not so impressed. I realize that Mike is working to get it up to speed, and I appreciate the site having been created in the first place, but wordreference has recently suffered a huge blow. Not only is Espasa not useful (since when is “cuán” NOT a word?? why should we have to click on words to see gender? and I miss the now defunt warnings about false cognates, i.e. actual ≠ actual), but I miss the German-English dictionary, and the italic font of the not-so-useful English-English dictionary is atrocious to try to read. Does anyone else get dizzy? I regularly used the electronic Collins for Eng-Span, Eng-Ger, and Eng-Ital (and vice-versa)… I'm trying to be patient, but I don’t know if they will serve me anymore. The site’s edge has disappeared.


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