# FR: jusqu'alors / jusque-là / jusqu'ici / d'ici là



## Bonjules

Hola tlm,
jusqu' alors = d'ici là ? 
"Until then the king had been able to control the situation"
Jusqu' alors/ d'ici là le roi avait pu controler la situation ?
merci
bj


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## tilt

No, it is not the same

_D'ici là_ is to be used for future events: _Quand je serai riche, j'aurai une Rolls. D'ici là, je prendrai le bus._

Use _jusqu'alors_ in your sentence.


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## Bonjules

ah, Tilt, thank you so much.

Of course, how stupid of me. 'Ici' is the 'here and now', n'est- ce pas?
saludos
bj


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## tilt

Well... It is correct that _Jusqu'ici_ exists and should be followed by present tense : _Jusqu'ici le roi contrôle la situation_ (btw, there is a "_^_" on 2nd "_o_" in _contrôler_).

But in facts, in common French, we do not really care about this, and we use _Jusqu'ici_, _Jusqu'alors_ or _Jusque là_ in the same way, most of the time. Let's say _Jusqu'alors_ is more rigourous, because it is the only one which refers explicitly to time rather than space.


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## Bonjules

Thank you, Tilt
Would it also be true to say that
'jusqu' alors' is the only one that's clearly confined to the past?


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## tilt

What a diffcult question! I started answering "yes", then changed my mind to "no", and finally, really wonder... 

The 3 of them seem exchangeable to me:
_Un jour, le roi ne contrôlera plus la situation. Il nous faudra attendre jusqu'*alors *pour agir_ makes sense, even if French people would rather say _jusque *là *_in such a sentence...


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## captain_rusty

It is an interesting question... 
I think that _jusqu'ici_ only works for the present, and that _jusqu'alors_ and _jusque là_ work for past, present and future.


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## pieanne

I agree with Captain Rusty... There's also "jusqu'à ce moment-là", not used in reference to the present.


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## jimmyquek

Bonjour,

Then can the following be translated as :

Amenagement de la chambre de Madame de Sevigne,hors du circuit des visites jusqu'alors = Fitting out Madame de Sevigne's room out of the visiting circuit until then

D'accord ? Is the translation correct ? Please help.


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## tilt

jimmyquek said:


> Bonjour,
> 
> Then can the following be translated as :
> 
> Amenagement de la chambre de Madame de Sevigne,hors du circuit des visites jusqu'alors = Fitting out Madame de Sevigne's room out of the visiting circuit until then
> 
> D'accord ? Is the translation correct ? Please help.


For me, in the French sentence, _jusqu'alors_ means _until now_ rather than _until then_.
I would rather say :

_Fitting out Madame de Sevigne's room, out of the visiting circuit until now _or (better ?) _yet

_(the coma seems important to me, here, in English as much as in French)


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## maliwan

I am so glad there is discussion on this topic, I just found a sentence "Impossibles à voir jusqu'alors, ces planètes ne peuvent plus échapper à nos télescopes ultra puissants." - "until now" sounds ok to everyone in this sentence?
 
Thanks, this is the place and all the nice people here have helped me a lot, thanks again to everyone.


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## Vençoise

I would naturally translate jusqu'alors as until now! it seems perfectly correct to me


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## Maître Capello

Let me disagree with what most people have written above: both _jusqu'alors_ and _jusque-là_ should be restricted to *past* events only.

_jusqu'ici = jusqu'à maintenant = jusqu'à présent _= until now (present)
_jusqu'alors = jusque-là_ = until then (past)
_d'ici là_ = until then (future)

It is indeed a common mistake—even for French natives—to mix up these phrases and use them interchangeably, but they are definitely not equivalent!


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## Vençoise

Maitre Capello you are right! Actually, I've realised my mistake shortly after writing my post and I agree with until then instead of until now to translate "jusqu'alors"  clumsy me!!


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