# That was I or That was me



## Aimee J.

When looking at a photo of yourself that was taken years ago and you want to mention something about the photo, at the start of the sentence do I say:

1) That was I when I was about 20.

2) That was me when I was about 20.

Which is correct?

Thank you.


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## lingobingo

2)

Or: That *is* me when I was about 20.


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## Jimbob_Disco

_Lingobingo_'s extra option is, in my opinion, the best.


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## Aimee J.

lingobingo said:


> 2)
> 
> Or: That *is* me when I was about 20.



In your alternative option, should it not also be "That is I"?


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## Florentia52

It shouldn't be "I" in either option.


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## Aimee J.

Florentia52 said:


> It shouldn't be "I" in either option.



Are you sure? I was taught that when a pronoun follows a linking verb the pronoun should be in the subjective case.


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## Hermione Golightly

You were taught wrongly.


> "That is I"?


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## Aimee J.

Hermione Golightly said:


> You were taught wrongly.



I was taught that linking verbs always take a subjective case, so for example:

1) It is I. 
2) It is me. 

1) It was I. 
2) It was me. 

1) It is he/she. 
2) It was him/her. 

1) It was he/she. 
2) It was him/her. 

The original sentence "That was I/me when I was about 20." has no object so why would I use "me" instead of "I"?

Grammar Bytes! :: The Subject Complement

"It Is I" Versus "It Is Me"

Subject complements - English Grammar Today - Cambridge Dictionary

English is not my first language but I have taken several English courses and even the basic ones told me that a linking verb requires a subject pronoun otherwise it would be ungrammatical. 

"That is I" is formal but is technically correct because the linking verb "is" requires a subject pronoun which in this case is "I".


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## velisarius

Hermione  and Florentia are right of course.

It's been discussed many times on this forum. Here is a nice short thread,  but you can find others via the dictionary search box.

It is I or It is me?

"Technically correct" doesn't mean anything. If you're looking for an old-fashioned (or formal) way of saying "It's me", by all means go ahead and use "It is I". They are both grammatically correct and acceptable in different contexts.


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## lingobingo

It’s true that saying “it is I” (or “it is he/she”, etc.) is grammatically correct. But, in practice, that is simply not what people say. Instead, we almost always use the objective form of personal pronouns. 

_Who did that? — Sorry, it was me!_

If you wanted to be “correct” (rather than idiomatic), you could say _“It was I who did it.” _But you wouldn’t sound like a native English-speaker.


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## Aimee J.

velisarius said:


> "Technically correct" doesn't mean anything. If you're looking for an old-fashioned (or formal) way of saying "It's me", by all means go ahead and use "It is I". They are both grammatically correct and acceptable in different contexts.



I would argue that technically it does otherwise before long people will start to accept people saying things like "I seen" instead of "I saw" or "I done" instead of "I did" and the list goes on. Surely speaking correctly is important. English is not my native language but even I know when some English speakers say things that are not grammatically correct and it's horrible to listen to or read.



lingobingo said:


> It’s true that saying “it is I” (or “it is he/she”, etc.) is grammatically correct. But, in practice, that is simply not what people say. Instead, we almost always use the objective form of personal pronouns.
> 
> _Who did that? — Sorry, it was me!_
> 
> If you wanted to be “correct” (rather than idiomatic), you could say _“It was I who did it.” _But you wouldn’t sound like a native English-speaker.



Why do "almost always" native English speakers use the objective pronoun with linking verbs?

Wouldn't a native English speaker who says things like "It is I" instead of "It's me" and so on just come across as well educated and formal?


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## Loob

Even your _*native English speaker who says things like "It is I" *_would not say "That was I".


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## Aimee J.

Loob said:


> Even your _*native English speaker who says things like "It is I" *_would not say "That was I".



I’m confused. Why not? Why is the rule that a linking verb is followed by a subject pronoun ignored by most people?


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## Loob

Because it's not a "rule".

It's no more a rule in English than it is in French.


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## Aimee J.

Loob said:


> Because it's not a "rule".
> 
> It's no more a rule in English than it is in French.



All of the sources that I have read, mostly websites and books, state it as a rule in the English language.


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## Loob

Then those sources are wrong, Aimee.


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## Aimee J.

Loob said:


> Then those sources are wrong, Aimee.



But why is it not a rule just because a lot of people don’t follow it? Surely it’s as much of a rule as any other rule in the English language. 

Other replies have agreed that it is technically correct according to the rules but just that most people don’t bother to follow it.


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## SevenDays

Aimee J. said:


> I was taught that linking verbs always take a subjective case, so for example:
> 
> 1) It is I.
> 2) It is me.
> 
> 1) It was I.
> 2) It was me.
> 
> 1) It is he/she.
> 2) It was him/her.
> 
> 1) It was he/she.
> 2) It was him/her.
> 
> The original sentence "That was I/me when I was about 20." has no object so why would I use "me" instead of "I"?
> 
> Grammar Bytes! :: The Subject Complement
> 
> "It Is I" Versus "It Is Me"
> 
> Subject complements - English Grammar Today - Cambridge Dictionary
> 
> English is not my first language but I have taken several English courses and even the basic ones told me that a linking verb requires a subject pronoun otherwise it would be ungrammatical.
> 
> "That is I" is formal but is technically correct because the linking verb "is" requires a subject pronoun which in this case is "I".



Look at it this way.
_It is I_
What's the verb? Answer: _is_.
What's the subject of the verb? Answer: _It_. That's the only function that "it" plays, and it's an important function; without "it," the sentence is ungrammatical (we can't say "Is I").
Given that "is" already has its subject ("it"), there's no syntactic/grammatical requirement for the subject pronoun I. Similarly, no one says "That was *I* twenty years ago" because "That" already functions as subject of "was." _That was *me* 20 years ago_ is what (most) people say.
It's as simple as that.

So, why do you see in books and websites that it should be "It is I"? Because of tradition. More precisely, because of _traditional grammar_ (the kind of grammar told in schools). A couple of centuries or so ago, when the first "grammar books" appeared, writers took as guide Latin, which was then the language of the educated people. The thinking was, if that's how it is in Latin, then that's how it should be in English. This use of "I" became seen as some kind of "rule." And, as you can see in all the sources that you've read, this tradition continues. However, modern linguistics tells us that this _It is *I *_"rule" is a _phantom rule;_ there's no such requirement in English syntax.

As some sort of compromise, some argue that "It is I" is _formal_ and "It is me" is _informal._ Well, ok, but that distinction (_formal_ vs _informal_) is not a rule either.


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## Loob

Aimee J. said:


> But why is it not a rule just because a lot of people don’t follow it? Surely it’s as much of a rule as any other rule in the English language.
> 
> Other replies have agreed that it is technically correct according to the rules but just that most people don’t bother to follow it.


Well, if a lot of people don't follow it, it can't be a "rule", surely?

And - going back to your question in post 1 - I would say that 100% of English-speakers would *not* say "That was I".


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## lingobingo

It so happens that the example of this “rule” that was given in the OP — _That was I when I was about 20_ — is a complete no-no. It would sound ridiculous if anyone said that. But there are constructions in which it’s fine to use subjective personal pronouns with the verb to be. For example: _It was they who gave me the idea in the first place. / It’s we who pay the price. _

However, these are examples of the “rule” being broken in  published works:

I did not want the man to think that it was me who was the cause of the thing being found out.
(_Journal of the Legislative Council_ [of New South Wales], vol. 44, Issue 2, 1889, p. 88)​
Now it was me who was taking the blame. Now it was my fault that the shaman rebelled!
(_Smithsonian Contributions to Anthropology_, Issue 33, 1976, p. 93)​
As reported by resident Pierre Labutte, Wasson told Pontiac, “he was the cause of all their ill luck, that he caused them to enter into the war and did nothing himself, that he was very brave in taking a loaf of bread or a beef from a Frenchman who made no resistance, but it was them who had all the men killed and wounded every day.”
(_A Most Troublesome Situation: The British Military and the Pontiac Indian Uprising of 1763–1764_, 2006)
​They would then retreat back into the mysterious building, then others would pretend to attack us, and they would also retreat. It was us who finally retreated.
(Cass Cassidy, _Gaba Road_, 2012)​


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## Aimee J.

SevenDays said:


> Look at it this way.
> _It is I_
> What's the verb? Answer: _is_.
> What's the subject of the verb? Answer: _It_. That's the only function that "it" plays, and it's an important function; without "it," the sentence is ungrammatical (we can't say "Is I").
> Given that "is" already has its subject ("it"), there's no syntactic/grammatical requirement for the subject pronoun I. Similarly, no one says "That was *I* twenty years ago" because "That" already functions as subject of "was." _That was *me* 20 years ago_ is what (most) people say.
> It's as simple as that.
> 
> So, why do you see in books and websites that it should be "It is I"? Because of tradition. More precisely, because of _traditional grammar_ (the kind of grammar told in schools). A couple of centuries or so ago, when the first "grammar books" appeared, writers took as guide Latin, which was then the language of the educated people. The thinking was, if that's how it is in Latin, then that's how it should be in English. This use of "I" became seen as some kind of "rule." And, as you can see in all the sources that you've read, this tradition continues. However, modern linguistics tells us that this _It is *I *_"rule" is a _phantom rule;_ there's no such requirement in English syntax.
> 
> As some sort of compromise, some argue that "It is I" is _formal_ and "It is me" is _informal._ Well, ok, but that distinction (_formal_ vs _informal_) is not a rule either.



Traditional grammar is still what is used to teach English, therefore there shouldn't be any problem teaching people to say "That/this is I" or "It is/was I" and so on. I agree that they all sound extremely formal and I haven't ever heard anyone saying it but if for example I heard someone say it, I wouldn't think anything about that person. Of course the distinction between formal and informal is not a rule but it's very easy to distinguish someone who speaks correctly ("formal") and someone who speaks slang ("informal"). I have watched British soaps before and a lot of the characters in soaps speak in a very informal way so I know that for many people slang is how they normally speak in everyday life.

I have been to England a few times and even I can tell that some people speak English very poorly, I heard a lot of young people saying things like "bruv" and "init" which are quite clearly informal. I have even heard native speakers of English say things like "I've saw" and "between you and I" which are both clearly wrong. 



Loob said:


> Well, if a lot of people don't follow it, it can't be a "rule", surely?
> 
> And - going back to your question in post 1 - I would say that 100% of English-speakers would *not* say "That was I".



Well a lot of people adhere to the thought that "rules are there to be broken", it doesn't make it right though. 

With all due respect, I don't think you can speak for everyone, I am sure there are some people who follow every single grammar rule, including the ones that will set you out from the crowd. 



lingobingo said:


> It so happens that the example of this “rule” that was given in the OP — _That was I when I was about 20_ — is a complete no-no. It would sound ridiculous if anyone said that. But there are constructions in which it’s fine to use subjective personal pronouns with the verb to be. For example: _It was they who gave me the idea in the first place. / It’s we who pay the price. _
> 
> However, these are examples of the “rule” being broken in  published works:
> 
> I did not want the man to think that it was me who was the cause of the thing being found out.
> (_Journal of the Legislative Council_ [of New South Wales], vol. 44, Issue 2, 1889, p. 88)​
> Now it was me who was taking the blame. Now it was my fault that the shaman rebelled!
> (_Smithsonian Contributions to Anthropology_, Issue 33, 1976, p. 93)​
> As reported by resident Pierre Labutte, Wasson told Pontiac, “he was the cause of all their ill luck, that he caused them to enter into the war and did nothing himself, that he was very brave in taking a loaf of bread or a beef from a Frenchman who made no resistance, but it was them who had all the men killed and wounded every day.”
> (_A Most Troublesome Situation: The British Military and the Pontiac Indian Uprising of 1763–1764_, 2006)
> ​They would then retreat back into the mysterious building, then others would pretend to attack us, and they would also retreat. It was us who finally retreated.
> (Cass Cassidy, _Gaba Road_, 2012)​



I'm not trying to argue with you but I'm sure there are also lots of examples of sentences that are grammatically correct but sound somewhat awkward yet are still used more than what is being discussed here. So what if certain sentences by using proper grammar "would sound ridiculous"? Who cares? I don't see that as a valid point to simply ignore a rule. 

A lot of singers and bands in their lyrics say things that are not grammatically correct, the best example I can think of is Bob Dylan's song Lay Lady Lay yet Lie Lady Lie just doesn't have the same sound to it. I'm sure I could find sources that use "It was I". Gary S. Paxton sang a song titled "It Was I". 

The prevalence of people ignoring grammar rules and certain ways of saying things becoming more common than the actual way they should be said doesn't make the rules invalid or wrong. Simply arguing that more people say "It is me" rather than "It is I" is simply using the fallacy of appeal to popularity.


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## lingobingo

Aimee J. said:


> So what if certain sentences by using proper grammar "would sound ridiculous"? Who cares? I don't see that as a valid point to simply ignore a rule.


You misunderstand. “That was I when I was about 20” is not good English. That’s why it sounds ridiculous. Would you have us say, for example, “This is we in our school uniform” (which sounds even more ridiculous) just to satisfy some misguided idea of what’s correct? It isn’t just “people ignoring grammar rules” who don’t speak like that, nobody does – however well educated they are, however pernickety about grammar.

This is part of what Oxford has to say on the subject:
Traditionalists sometimes argue, for example, that _she's younger than me_ and _I've not been here as long as her_ are incorrect and that the correct forms are _she's younger than I_ and _I've not been here as long as she_. This is based on the assumption that _than_ and _as_ are conjunctions and so the personal pronoun is still subjective even though there is no verb (in full form it would be _she's younger than I am_). Yet for most native speakers the supposed ‘correct’ form does not sound natural at all and is almost never used in speech. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that, in modern English, those personal pronouns listed above as being objective are used neutrally—i.e. they are used in all cases where the pronoun is not explicitly subjective. From this it follows that, despite the objections of prescriptive grammarians (whose arguments are based on Latin rather than English), it is standard accepted English to use any of the following: _Who is it? It's me!; she's taller than him; I didn't do as well as her._


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## Loob

Excellent post, lingobingo.

Feel free to carry on saying "That was I", Aimee. It will still be wrong.


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## Aimee J.

lingobingo said:


> You misunderstand. “That was I when I was about 20” is not good English. That’s why it sounds ridiculous. Would you have us say, for example, “This is we in our school uniform” (which sounds even more ridiculous) just to satisfy some misguided idea of what’s correct? It isn’t just “people ignoring grammar rules” who don’t speak like that, nobody does – however well educated they are, however pernickety about grammar.



I agree with you that the sentence could be worded better. 

Yes, I don’t see why that sentence is a problem. Except a person who says such things is not “misguided”, he or she is simply sticking by traditional grammar rules. It really doesn’t matter if a lot of people don’t speak in such a manner. 

When I was last in England I heard a lot of people using “seen” instead of “saw” and “done” instead of “did” and many others. I was able to notice such lack of grammar very quickly so I understand that many native English speakers don’t bother sticking to grammar rules. 

Another similar sort of thing that some people never say but is technically correct is “this is he/she”. 



> This is part of what Oxford has to say on the subject:
> Traditionalists sometimes argue, for example, that _she's younger than me_ and _I've not been here as long as her_ are incorrect and that the correct forms are _she's younger than I_ and _I've not been here as long as she_. This is based on the assumption that _than_ and _as_ are conjunctions and so the personal pronoun is still subjective even though there is no verb (in full form it would be _she's younger than I am_). Yet for most native speakers the supposed ‘correct’ form does not sound natural at all and is almost never used in speech. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that, in modern English, those personal pronouns listed above as being objective are used neutrally—i.e. they are used in all cases where the pronoun is not explicitly subjective. From this it follows that, despite the objections of prescriptive grammarians (whose arguments are based on Latin rather than English), it is standard accepted English to use any of the following: _Who is it? It's me!; she's taller than him; I didn't do as well as her._



I’m pretty sure all of this backs up my point. 

I’m aware that speaking in a way that isn’t exactly “ordinary speech” might come across as very formal but that shouldn’t stop someone from speaking in such a manner. I do also understand that some people simply just don’t care. Some people don’t even care about grammar at all, never mind a certain rule to follow.

It’s quite rare to hear people say “this is he/she” which is also correct. I’m not denying that many people do avoid technically correct grammar when speaking but that doesn’t make such rules wrong or to be avoided. 

In French, like many other languages, there are feminine and masculine words and some people use one kind for both genders but that doesn’t mean it’s encouraged or accepted. 

I can also see that there is another about “It is I” And many users have agreed that it is correct but the majority of people don’t say it. I think it’s simply a matter of colloquial vs standard speech. 



Loob said:


> Excellent post, lingobingo.
> 
> Feel free to carry on saying "That was I", Aimee. It will still be wrong.



According to whom will it be wrong?


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## Hermione Golightly

Who will it be wrong to? Pretty well everybody except those who think they know better.


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## Forero

Aimee J. said:


> When looking at a photo of yourself that was taken years ago and you want to mention something about the photo, at the start of the sentence do I say:
> 
> 1) That was I when I was about 20.
> 
> 2) That was me when I was about 20.
> 
> Which is correct?
> 
> Thank you.


1 is incorrect. 2 is better.

The intended meaning is surely not "When I was about 20, I was that."

LingoBingo's version with "is" is even better. Remember you are talking about a picture. What is that a picture of? Me when I was about 20. Notice that "me when I was about 20" is all one noun phrase, not a complement followed by an adverbial modifying "was".


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## Aimee J.

Hermione Golightly said:


> Who will it be wrong to? Pretty well everybody except those who think they know better.



Well, I am not disputing how it could come across if someone were to say "It is I" compared to the more common "It is me" but technically those people who say the former do know better because they are following the subject complement rule.

Cambridge Dictionary states: "When we use a pronoun as a subject complement after _be_, we usually use an object pronoun (e.g. _me, him, us_)" and "In some formal contexts we use the subject pronoun (e.g. _I, he, they, we_)".

Just because a lot of people don't follow a rule, it does not make that rule wrong or to be ignored. This forum is about teaching people the correct way yet some people are saying that a rule should be ignored because the vast majority of people don't speak like that.

The English grammar has rules to follow which is why saying things like "you was" or "it don't" are wrong and grammatically incorrect yet many people do say such things. On the contrary, there are many such cases such as "It is I" or "This is he/she" that are correct but are rarely said these days yet they are right and grammatically correct.



Forero said:


> 1 is incorrect. 2 is better.
> 
> The intended meaning is surely not "When I was about 20, I was that."
> 
> LingoBingo's version with "is" is even better. Remember you are talking about a picture. What is that a picture of? Me when I was about 20. Notice that "me when I was about 20" is all one noun phrase, not a complement followed by an adverbial modifying "was".



In order to use the word "is" the whole sentence should really be modified because even that word requires "I" rather than "me".

I have used the search function and it is clear to me that "It is I" is regarded as correct and formal whereas "It is me" is regarded as grammatically incorrect and more commonly used. It's the exact same as when it should really be "you and I" people say "you and me". There are lots of examples of incorrect but widely used English.


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## Forero

Aimee J. said:


> Well, I am not disputing how it could come across if someone were to say "It is I" compared to the more common "It is me" but technically those people who say the former do know better because they are following the subject complement rule.


... or the "_I_ as disjunctive rule", or the "_I_ because the teacher who taught me that eight cannot be subtracted from five said so" rule.





> In order to use the word "is" the whole sentence should really be modified because even that word requires "I" rather than "me".


The "subject complement rule" is not universally valid for standard formal English.





> I have used the search function and it is clear to me that "It is I" is regarded as correct and formal whereas "It is me" is regarded as grammatically incorrect and more commonly used. It's the exact same as when it should really be "you and I" people say "you and me". There are lots of examples of incorrect but widely used English.


Yes, such examples exist by the boatload, but "That is me when I was about twenty years old", which would be wrong with two "I"s, is a very different sentence from "It is I whom you seek", which would be wrong with "me". "It is I you are looking for" would also be wrong.

"That is I" is a valid sentence, though hyperformal, but "I when I was about 20" is not a valid noun phrase, and the rule for noun phrases supersedes your subject complement rule. There is just no simple rule for when to use "I", "me", or "my" in academic English. There are rules, but they are not so simple.


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## SevenDays

Aimee J. said:


> ...
> 
> The English grammar has rules to follow which is why saying things like "you was" or "it don't" are wrong and grammatically incorrect yet many people do say such things. On the contrary, there are many such cases such as "It is I" or "This is he/she" that are correct but are rarely said these days yet they are right and grammatically correct.
> ...



Right, "you *was*" is wrong because it violates a basic syntax principle, the principle being that the subject must be in agreement with the verb. Now, would you ever say "I *is*"? I'm sure you'll say "no," so why would you argue that the correct form is _It is *I*_? If that's what you argue, then what you are really saying is that "It" is not really subject, and that the subject is found _after_ the verb, but that's nonsense, because no one says "I *is*." In fact, if you switch the sentence around and put "I" _before_ the verb, then you automatically have to say "I *am *it." The reason is simple: The verb agrees with the subject (the noun or pronoun that _precedes_ the verb), not with the subject complement (the element that _follows_ the verb). If you start with "It is," then "it" is the subject of the verb, which means that you don't need the subject pronoun "I." People who argue that it _should_ be "I" are following a _phantom rule_. Of course, you may choose to say "It is I" (or "That is I"); it's _your_ use of the language, after all. Just don't assume that this is _correct_, and that "It is me" is _incorrect_.

Whenever you come across a "rule," ask yourself, on what basis is this a rule? Inevitably, you are gonna have to do a little detective work (to see how syntax works). Don't rely exclusively on traditional grammar, because traditional grammar is not an accurate description of the English language.


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## Aimee J.

Forero said:


> ... or the "_I_ as disjunctive rule", or the "_I_ because the teacher who taught me that eight cannot be subtracted from five said so" rule.



Well it's obvious to anyone that 5-8 and 8-5 give different results.



> The "subject complement rule" is not universally valid for standard formal English.



Some English grammar rules were adopted from Latin. There are other examples such as not ending in a sentence with a preposition, no splitting infinitives and so on that are largely ignored by a lot of people but they are still technically speaking part of the rules of English grammar. Yes, some grammarians do disagree with such rules but they are still generally accepted as part of the rules of the English language.



> Yes, such examples exist by the boatload, but "That is me when I was about twenty years old", which would be wrong with two "I"s, is a very different sentence from "It is I whom you seek", which would be wrong with "me". "It is I you are looking for" would also be wrong.



I have said that the sentence could be worded better but I was just asking for validation about the use of "That was I" rather than "That was me".

Why would "It is I you are looking for" be wrong? I think this sentence should be reworded to use the object pronoun: "I think you are looking for me."

English usage controversies - Wikipedia



> "That is I" is a valid sentence, though hyperformal, but "I when I was about 20" is not a valid noun phrase, and the rule for noun phrases supersedes your subject complement rule. There is just no simple rule for when to use "I", "me", or "my" in academic English. There are rules, but they are not so simple.



I have said that it is highly formal but I've had people on here telling me that I have been taught incorrect English simply because a lot of people avoid speaking in such a formal way. Such an argument is just simply not true. Yes, there are a lot of disputes about the rules of the English language and many rules are ignored by a large amount of English speakers but that doesn't make those rules to be wrong.



SevenDays said:


> Right, "you *was*" is wrong because it violates a basic syntax principle, the principle being that the subject must be in agreement with the verb. Now, would you ever say "I *is*"? I'm sure you'll say "no," so why would you argue that the correct form is _It is *I*_? If that's what you argue, then what you are really saying is that "It" is not really subject, and that the subject is found _after_ the verb, but that's nonsense, because no one says "I *is*." In fact, if you switch the sentence around and put "I" _before_ the verb, then you automatically have to say "I *am *it." The reason is simple: The verb agrees with the subject (the noun or pronoun that _precedes_ the verb), not with the subject complement (the element that _follows_ the verb). If you start with "It is," then "it" is the subject of the verb, which means that you don't need the subject pronoun "I." People who argue that it _should_ be "I" are following a _phantom rule_. Of course, you may choose to say "It is I" (or "That is I"); it's _your_ use of the language, after all. Just don't assume that this is _correct_, and that "It is me" is _incorrect_.
> 
> Whenever you come across a "rule," ask yourself, on what basis is this a rule? Inevitably, you are gonna have to do a little detective work (to see how syntax works). Don't rely exclusively on traditional grammar, because traditional grammar is not an accurate description of the English language.



"It is me" is wrong because it violates the subject complement principle. Any linking verb should be followed by a subject pronoun.

"Check out these sample sentences:

Don't blame Gerard. It was I who woke you from a sound sleep.

It = subject; was = linking verb; I = subject complement.

Don't get mad at me! I didn't pull your ponytail! It was he.

It = subject; was = linking verb; he = subject complement.

Remember the amazing guitarist I met? This is she.

This = subject; is = linking verb; she = subject complement."

Grammar Bytes! :: The Subject Complement

Also:

"When used as a predictive expression, i.e. as the complement of a form of the copula verb _be_, the subjective form was traditionally regarded as more correct (as in _this is *I*_, _it was *he*_), but nowadays the objective form is used predominantly (_this is *me*_, _it was *him*_), and the use of the subjective in such instances is normally regarded as very formal or pedantic; it is more likely (in formal English) when followed by a relative clause (_it is *we* who sent them to die_). In some cases the subjective may even appear ungrammatical, as in *_is that *we* in the photograph?_ (where _*us*_ would be expected)."

English personal pronouns - Wikipedia

"In some languages, a personal pronoun has a form called a disjunctive pronoun, which is used when it stands on its own, or with only a copula, such as in answering to the question "Who wrote this page?" The natural answer for most English speakers in this context would be "me" (or "It's me"), parallel to _moi_ (or _C'est moi_) in French. Unlike in French, however, where such constructions are considered standard, English pronouns used in this way have caused dispute. Some grammarians have argued and persuaded some educators that the correct answer should be "I" or "It is I" because "is" is a linking verb and "I" is a predicate nominative, and up until a few centuries ago spoken English used pronouns in the subjective case in such sentences. However, since English has lost noun inflection and now relies on word order, using the objective case _me_ after the verb _be_ like other verbs seems very natural to modern speakers. The phrase "It is I" historically came from the Middle English "It am I", and the change from "am" to "is" was also a step towards fixing the SVO word order."

Disjunctive pronoun - Wikipedia

Again, I am not disputing with anyone that certain technically correct ways of saying things can come across as pedantic, posh, highly formal, etc, but if someone wants to stick to traditional grammar rules then that is up to him or her.


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## velisarius

[..deleted..] No longer relevant.

Nobody is forcing you to use idiomatic English as generally used by educated people in the year 2018.


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## Aimee J.

velisarius said:


> No, sorry, it's "up to him or her".
> 
> Nobody is forcing you to use idiomatic English as generally used by educated people in the year 2018.



I'm glad you noticed the reverse psychology I did in my previous post.

What do you define as "educated people"? I hope you don't think that I would assume that a person who opted to say "It is me" is uneducated. But, I think there is a comparison between that and people who say things like "it don't", "we was", "you was", "between you and I", etc.


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## Loob

*That is I* is a completely different kettle of fish from *It is I*.

*That is I* is not "technically correct".
*That is I* is not "pedantic, posh or highly formal".
*That is I* is wrong.


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## Aimee J.

Loob said:


> *That is I* is a completely different kettle of fish from *It is I*.
> 
> *That is I* is not "technically correct".
> *That is I* is not "pedantic, posh or highly formal".
> *That is I* is wrong.



Not really. How is it any different? It's just less heard of, that is all. 

"*Question* Which is better? It is me, or it is I? Also, that is I, or that is me?
*Source & Date
of Question* *Marshalltown, Iowa
13 May 1998
Grammar's
Response* 
In formal writing, use the predicate nominative form -- "I." In speech and casual writing or fiction, use "It is me" and "that is me." Eventually, this rule will relax to the point that "It is me" will be acceptable in formal, academic prose, but it will still cause grief today among some instructors and bosses who had Mrs. Hyde in eighth-grade English."

The Grammar Logs #124

The user Forero even agrees with me: "That is I" is a valid sentence, though hyperformal,".


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## Loob

This is I bowing out of the thread.


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## You little ripper!

Aimee J. said:


> The user Forero even agrees with me: "That is I" is a valid sentence, though hyperformal,".


If any of my friends heard me say "That is I", I'd be laughed at. It sounds pompous!


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## velisarius

_Who is really fed up with this thread? - Er, that would be I._


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## lingobingo

Loob said:


> This is I bowing out of the thread.





velisarius said:


> _Who is really fed up with this thread? - Er, that would be I._


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## Jimbob_Disco

This thread is beginning to bore I.


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## Hermione Golightly

It might ease your angst to view this use of 'me' like an English version of the emphatic French first person pronoun,  a form of pronoun which we lack.


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## Forero

Aimee J. said:


> The user Forero even agrees with me: "That is I" is a valid sentence, though hyperformal,".


I said "That is I" is a valid sentence, but I did not give a proper context for it (and I would rather not). It certainly does not work when applied to a picture, in any register.


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