# 四六不分



## PeachYoghurt

Hi all! 中文里“四六不分”形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂，不知英文里是否有相应的set phrase or expression 来传递这个意思呢？
比如：这个人四六不分。


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## coolfool

haven't even got to the first base.


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## 2PieRad

Hello


coolfool said:


> haven't even gotten to the first base.


This has heavily implied sexual connotations: First base, second base, third base.



PeachYoghurt said:


> Hi all! 中文里“四六不分”形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂，不知英文里是否有相应的set phrase or expression 来传递这个意思呢？
> 比如：这个人四六不分。


How about:
_can't tell his ass from his elbow
doesn't know his ass from his elbow
can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground. _
(Ass-AE/Arse-BE, his/her)
It has a similar structure to 四六不分 but I feel it might be a bit "rougher."


doesn't know his ass from his elbow
A hole in the groundPost #4
I don't know my ass , arse from my elbow


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## coolfool

Erebos12345 said:


> This has heavily implied sexual connotations: First base, second base, third base.



1. _Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's English Dictionary_:
*first base*
noun [singular]
baseball : the base that must be touched first by a base runner
Ex: a runner on first base
_also _: the position of the player who defends the area around first base
Ex: She hit a ground ball to first base.
Ex: He used to be a catcher, but now he plays first base.
_*get to first base*_
chiefly US _informal _: to make the first step in a course or process that you hope will lead further
— usually used in negative statements
Ex: Her proposal to change the tax laws never got to first base. [= never had any success at all]
Ex: He kept asking her out, but he couldn't even get to first base. [= she would not agree to go on even one date with him]

Only the last one touches can't-be-healthier date, rather than what you call "heavily implied sexual connotations", between man and woman.

2. _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Dictionary_:
*get*, *got*, *gotten* or *get*, *got*, *got*, *getting*, *gets*

3. The following is provided by _google_:


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## 2PieRad

Hi


coolfool said:


> 1. _Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's English Dictionary_:
> *first base*
> noun [singular]
> baseball : the base that must be touched first by a base runner
> Ex: a runner on first base
> _also _: the position of the player who defends the area around first base
> Ex: She hit a ground ball to first base.
> Ex: He used to be a catcher, but now he plays first base.
> _*get to first base*_
> chiefly US _informal _: to make the first step in a course or process that you hope will lead further
> — usually used in negative statements
> Ex: Her proposal to change the tax laws never got to first base. [= never had any success at all]
> Ex: He kept asking her out, but he couldn't even get to first base. [= she would not agree to go on even one date with him]
> 
> Only the last one touches can't-be-healthier date, rather than what you call "heavily implied sexual connotations", between man and woman.


That's why my link also included explanations for the closely related phrases "second base" and "third base." 
Edit: Outside of baseball, I'm quite sure that this is the next most common usage of "first base" (and second/third base), especially when used with "to get to (first base)".

More/most importantly, I don't understand how any of the definitions you quoted from the dictionary entry of "first base" helps to translate 四六不分. Where did you hear a phrase with "first base" used in the same way as 四六部分, or used to "形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂?"


> 2. _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Dictionary_:
> *get*, *got*, *gotten* or *get*, *got*, *got*, *getting*, *gets*


That's fine. But I'm just letting you know which version I tend to hear more often. I think you also misquoted your source: _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Dictionary? _Also, I'm not American. 


> 3. The following is provided by _google_:View attachment 21292


Did you do a targeted search for "the first base"?

Perhaps you should do a similar Google search for "got to the first base" (4 results) and "gotten to the first base" (1 result) and "get to the first base" (7 results).


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## coolfool

Hi,

Sorry for the typo. _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Dictionary_ should be _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_. Much obliged.

What do you mean 四六部分? Is it a typo, something like mine?

_New Oxford English Dictionary_: *get*: *v*. (*getting*; p *got*; pp *got*, AmE or _archaic _*gotten*). Isn't it natural that we adopt _gotten _when it deals with something more popular in the United States, especially for a non-native English speaker?

Did do a targeted search for "the first base". I'm supposed to do a lot more. Perhaps it's enough for the time being? Do I need to search the whole sentence? It'll certainly yield nothing at all.

According to your logic, we can only speak or write something that had been spoken or written by someone in history or before us? I, for one, living in China, didn't know 四六不分 until now. To be honest, I'm unaware of if it does mean 形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂.

四六不分来源

天津人常说一个人四六不懂，就是说这个人太呆了，俗语说，木头脑袋，四六不分，指的就是一个人连起码的道理也不懂，连“四”和“六”都分不清楚，那实在也是太傻太不懂什么了。

《水浒传》18回，何涛奉命带兵去石碣村捕拿阮小五、阮小七，何涛带兵赶到石碣村湖边，派几个做公的，也就是当差的前去探路。这几个当差的划了两只船，又去了一个多时辰，并不见些回报，何涛道：“这几个都是惯做公的四清六活的人，却怎么也不晓得？”这里的四清六活，就是说这些当差的不是四六不懂的人，他们懂得什么四六呢？”原来，四清，指的是眼耳鼻舌感觉分明，六活，指的是礼乐射御书数运用灵活，你看这个“四六不懂”并不只是分不清楚四和六哩。

“不分”与“不懂”一个意思。只是地方叫法有所偏差罢了。

四六不分来源_百度知道

Kindly be advised that the above is explanation instead of proof. What's more, it says this phrase is Tianjin dialect.

For your reference:
四六：
《汉语辞海》：文体名
《汉语大词典》：文体名
《国语辞典修订本》：文体名

Therefore, wherever stumbling on 四六不分, we'd most probably take it as 文体不分.

Regards,


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## 2PieRad

Hello


coolfool said:


> What do you mean 四六部分? Is it a typo, something like mine?


Yes. Sorry, that was a typo. Auto correct. 部分-> 不分





> _New Oxford English Dictionary_: *get*: *v*. (*getting*; p *got*; pp *got*, AmE or _archaic _*gotten*). Isn't it natural that we adopt _gotten _when it deals with something more popular in the United States, especially for a non-native English speaker?



对不起。。。我不了解。 不是是你先建议用这句"haven't even got to the first base"吗？然后是我帮你改成 "_gotten _to first base"，应为凭我语感这更好听些。但你好像不同意，给我看American Heritage Dictionary的条目, 说got和gotten都可以使用。

现在你说"Isn't it natural that we adopt _gotten _when it deals with something more popular in the United States"，这是当然了。 我从开始就说应该用gotten. 这从开始就是我的感觉，但确切原因是你找出来的： to get to first base 是美式英语的说法，就该用美式英语的conjugations:gotten.

还有，美语里的_I have got_  和_I have gotten _意思不同
_I have got=_I have (present tense)
_I have gotten=_I have received/obtained/attained/etc. (present perfect tense, 在这情况下，是你所需要的时态)
我觉得很有意思的：请看
Got / gotten
Got & Gotten (Posts 7, 10, 11)
I've got/ gotten ... (numerous posts)


> Did do a targeted search for "the first base". I'm supposed to do a lot more. Perhaps it's enough for the time being? Do I need to search the whole sentence? It'll certainly yield nothing at all.


问题是the这个词。 你原句是haven't even got to the first base, 我说这句话里不需要the。 你好像也不同意，所以搜索Google给我看 the first base 的频率。但整句是to get to (the) first base. To get to _the _first base不会有（很多)搜索结果的,不管to get动词时态， 应为英语里没有这个说法，只有去掉the， to get to first base 这个说法。



> According to your logic, we can only speak or write something that had been spoken or written by someone in history or before us?


哈哈，事实也差不多就是这样的啦。 你说的话要是别人不懂，那有何意义呢？你要想随便编一句话，但只有你知道是什么意思，你给别人说，他们会懂吗？你对一个母语英语的人说 You haven't even got to the first base. 你的用法不对，他会懂吗？ 他理解的意思和你想表达的意思会相同吗？这就是Chinglish 的来源 


> I, for one, living in China, didn't know 四六不分 until now. To be honest, I'm unaware of if it does mean 形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂.
> 
> 
> 四六不分来源
> 
> 天津人常说一个人四六不懂，就是说这个人太呆了，俗语说，木头脑袋，四六不分，指的就是一个人连起码的道理也不懂，连“四”和“六”都分不清楚，那实在也是太傻太不懂什么了。
> 
> 《水浒传》18回，何涛奉命带兵去石碣村捕拿阮小五、阮小七，何涛带兵赶到石碣村湖边，派几个做公的，也就是当差的前去探路。这几个当差的划了两只船，又去了一个多时辰，并不见些回报，何涛道：“这几个都是惯做公的四清六活的人，却怎么也不晓得？”这里的四清六活，就是说这些当差的不是四六不懂的人，他们懂得什么四六呢？”原来，四清，指的是眼耳鼻舌感觉分明，六活，指的是礼乐射御书数运用灵活，你看这个“四六不懂”并不只是分不清楚四和六哩。
> 
> “不分”与“不懂”一个意思。只是地方叫法有所偏差罢了。
> 
> 四六不分来源_百度知道
> 
> Kindly be advised that the above is explanation instead of proof. What's more, it says this phrase is Tianjin dialect.
> 
> For your reference:
> 四六：
> 《汉语辞海》：文体名
> 《汉语大词典》：文体名
> 《国语辞典修订本》：文体名
> 
> Therefore, wherever stumbling on 四六不分, we'd most probably take it as 文体不分.
> 
> Regards,


好啊。 反正我以前也没听说过这句’四六不分‘. 是天津话也可以，反正有其他的人能听得懂。 PeachYoghurt 解释地蛮好的。 百度的定义也很好。 我是按她的定义来翻译成 can't tell his ass from his elbow. (文体不分 doesn't actually make much sense, does it? )

用她的‘四六不分’定义与我所了解的‘to get to first base'概念来比，我还是觉得这两句话完全不相似。


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## coolfool

对不起。。。我不了解。 不是是你先建议用这句"haven't even got to the first base"吗？然后是我帮你改成 "gotten to first base"，应为凭我语感这更好听些。但你好像不同意，给我看American Heritage Dictionary的条目, 说got和gotten都可以使用。

现在你说"Isn't it natural that we adopt gotten when it deals with something more popular in the United States"，这是当然了。 我从开始就说应该用gotten. 这从开始就是我的感觉，但确切原因是你找出来的： to get to first base 是美式英语的说法，就该用美式英语的conjugations:gotten.

If your suggestion is better, why shouldn't we, I to be exact, simply adopt yours? Isn't it why we are here for?



问题是the这个词。 你原句是haven't even got to the first base, 我说这句话里不需要the。 你好像也不同意，所以搜索Google给我看 the first base 的频率。

Perhaps you mislead me. I merely provide the Google result. I don't remember I'd said yah or nay. Agree? As a matter of fact, I agree with you. In most cases, we don't need the _the_. Only in the rare cases, we probably need the definite article to emphasize _first base_. That's why, if I guess right, we're able to find out so many _thes _in *the *front of _first base_.



哈哈，事实也差不多就是这样的啦。 你说的话要是别人不懂，那有何意义呢？你要想随便编一句话，但只有你知道是什么意思，你给别人说，他们会懂吗？你对一个母语英语的人说 You haven't even got to the first base. 你的用法不对，他会懂吗？ 他理解的意思和你想表达的意思会相同吗？这就是Chinglish 的来源

This is what I can hardly agree. Treading in Westerners' footsteps in writing in the English tongue, we wind with luck up a successful hack that I try by hook or by crook to avoid to be. I may make some mistakes somehow somewhere sometimes, so what? Doesn't man on the planet err every second? Let alone small fry like me. Do you imply you never eat humble pie even once in your entire life? Regarding what you call Chinglish, some have become idiomatic English, mark my words. Look, disagreeing to agree, we may as well agree to disagree.


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## 2PieRad

Hello


coolfool said:


> If your suggestion is better, why shouldn't we, I to be exact, simply adopt yours? Isn't it why we are here for?
> 
> Perhaps you mislead me. I merely provide the Google result. I don't remember I'd said yah or nay. Agree? As a matter of fact, I agree with you. In most cases, we don't need the _the_. Only in the rare cases, we probably need the definite article to emphasize _first base_. That's why, if I guess right, we're able to find out so many _thes _in *the *front of _first base_.



那算我误会了。 我以为你给我看字典条目和Google是应为你不赞同我的英语用法还是什么的。。。



> This is what I can hardly agree. Treading in Westerners' footsteps in writing in the English tongue, we wind with luck up a successful hack that I try by hook or by crook to avoid to be. I may make some mistakes somehow somewhere sometimes, so what? Doesn't man on the planet err every second? Let alone small fry like me. Do you imply you never eat humble pie even once in your entire life? Regarding what you call Chinglish, some have become idiomatic English, mark my words. Look, disagreeing to agree, we may as well agree to disagree.



哎。 人家改你一句英语，何必这么介意? 这Slice of humble pie该谁吃？ 学中文时当然该轮我吃。不吃的话我学一辈子也别想进步到哪去。我一辈子继续固执地用不标准不正确/Chinglish类的语言，期望着有一天"it becomes idiomatic"，看会有什么效果。 但现在在谈英语，谈‘四六不分’怎样翻译成英语， 而学英语的却不是我。这pie可不是我该吃的。 我健身呢 

请原谅我。你上面写的我确实有点难懂。要愿意的话，用中文没问题。

Edit: I think we're getting quite off-topic. Unless you have something else to contribute to the original question, I suggest you send me a private message, before the moderators come down on us.


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## coolfool

人家改你一句英语，何必这么介意?

Do I? Please see the facts for yourself:
1. Who said "If your suggestion is better, why shouldn't we, I to be exact, simply adopt yours? Isn't it why we are here for?"?
2. At first, I used _got_. It's right. Under your kind guidance, I opt for _gotten_.
3. What more do you want?


这Slice of humble pie该谁吃？

_*eat humble pie*_:
1. Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's Dictionary
2. Macmillan English Dictionary
3. Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary
4. ...


你说的话要是别人不懂，那有何意义呢？你要想随便编一句话，但只有你知道是什么意思，你给别人说，他们会懂吗？你对一个母语英语的人说 You haven't even got to the first base. 你的用法不对，他会懂吗？ 他理解的意思和你想表达的意思会相同吗？这就是Chinglish 的来源

The point is how you know for so sure foreigners don't understand something? Do you mean they don't understand whatever simply because you say so? Do you imply that you've ever managed to read all the books sleeping in libraries? Shouldn't we say, say, I myself haven't run into such usage and I ain't so sure about it or I really doubt it? My experience and experiences tell me, they're aware what and when I try to speak my mind even if I do wrongly. Ever heard of two and two make four? Likewise, the foreigners in China speak broken Chinese, do we understand them? Of course, we do. We don't mind their strange accents, incorrectly chosen words, wrong grammar as well as funny usage. We couldn't care less as long as we can exchange ideas. Why should we make a mountain out of a molehill? Do you suggest we of Chinese speak and/or write every sentences in English after, and only after, checking if foreigners ever did so? Can it be possible in reality? The only thing we can do is consult a dictionary or two and look into the examples given, or the definitions of words, phrases, slangs, etc. As for 四六不分, i.e. 形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂, shouldn't we study the definitions of _first base_ if we fail to find out the similar sentences? Like _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_: _slang _the first stage or step toward completion or success, _Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary_: to succeed in the initial phase of a plan or undertaking: His suggestions for labor-saving techniques never got to first base, and all that.


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## Skatinginbc

別爭了, 他四六不分, 多爭無益  He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground (= He knows from nothing).
秀才遇到兵, 有理說不清。秀才遇到的「兵」, 就是「四六不分」的人。


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## 2PieRad

Hello


coolfool said:


> 人家改你一句英语，何必这么介意?
> 
> Do I? Please see the facts for yourself:
> 1. Who said "If your suggestion is better, why shouldn't we, I to be exact, simply adopt yours? Isn't it why we are here for?"?
> 2. At first, I used _got_. It's right. Under your kind guidance, I opt for _gotten_.
> 3. What more do you want?
> 
> 
> 这Slice of humble pie该谁吃？
> 
> _*eat humble pie*_:
> 1. Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's Dictionary
> 2. Macmillan English Dictionary
> 3. Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary
> 4. ...


My dear. Haven't I already shown you that dictionaries don't give you the whole picture? (got/gotten) Even though you've clearly spent a lot of time memorizing English idioms and phrases, most, if not all of your uses thus far do not sound natural or are completely incomprehensible, including your use of _humble pie._


> 你说的话要是别人不懂，那有何意义呢？你要想随便编一句话，但只有你知道是什么意思，你给别人说，他们会懂吗？你对一个母语英语的人说 You haven't even got to the first base. 你的用法不对，他会懂吗？ 他理解的意思和你想表达的意思会相同吗？这就是Chinglish 的来源
> 
> The point is how you know for so sure foreigners don't understand something? Do you mean they don't understand whatever simply because you say so? Do you imply that you've ever managed to read all the books sleeping in libraries? Shouldn't we say, say, I myself haven't run into such usage and I ain't so sure about it or I really doubt it?


Absolutely  
I'm an English native speaker. Shouldn't I know more than you about what English native speakers would understand and would not understand? But if it was indeed some usage I've never heard of, didn't I invite you to show us(in post #5) how your _first base_ expression equates to 四六不分？I don't think you've done that yet. Maybe I missed it. I do apologize sincerely, but your English is hard to follow.


> My experience and experiences tell me, they're aware what and when I try to speak my mind even if I do wrongly. Ever heard of two and two make four? Likewise, the foreigners in China speak broken Chinese, do we understand them? Of course, we do. We don't mind their accents, incorrectly chosen words, wrong grammar as well as funny usage. We couldn't care less as long as we can exchange ideas. Why should we make a mountain out of a molehill? Do you suggest we of Chinese speak and/or write every sentences in English after, and only after, checking if foreigners ever did so? Can it be possible in reality? The only thing we can do is consult a dictionary or two and look into the examples given, or the definitions of words, phrases, slangs, etc.


And you have tools like *WordReference*, where you can check with native speakers to see if your usage is correct and natural.  As you said: "Isn't it why we are here for?" So we can learn how to correct our "wrong grammar" and "funny usage?" Do English speakers in China not correct your wrong grammar and funny usage at all? Do you not want to improve your English? When they correct your English, do you reply: "Do you suggest we of Chinese speak and/or write every sentences in English after, and only after, checking if foreigners ever did so? Can it be possible in reality? The only thing we can do is consult a dictionary or two and look into the examples given, or the definitions of words, phrases, slangs, etc."?

Do you not correct their "wrong Chinese grammar" and "funny Chinese usage?" Do they not want you to correct them? When you try to correct them, do they tell you "can English-speakers speak and/or write every sentences in English Chinese after, and only after, checking if Chinese people foreigners ever did so?" 


> As for 四六不分, i.e. 形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂, shouldn't we study the definitions of _first base_ if we fail to find out the similar sentences? Like _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_: _slang _the first stage or step toward completion or success,





> _Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary_: to succeed in the initial phase of a plan or undertaking: His suggestions for labor-saving techniques never got to first base, and all that.


You _are _"studying the definitions of _first base_" right now: I'm telling you we don't use it that way. Again, in case I'm really not familiar with this usage, I invite you show us an example of when _first base_ is used the same way as
四六不分, i.e. 形容一个人连起码的道理都不懂.

Or is this another example of "Chinglish, some have become idiomatic English, mark my words"? Can I ask for some examples of Chinglish expressions that have become idiomatic English expressions?

These examples of Chinglish certainly don't seem to be accepted:
Good Good Study, Up Up Every Day
"You good" - Does the Chinglish work?


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## 2PieRad

Skatinginbc said:


> 別爭了, 他四六不分, 多爭無益  He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground (= He knows from nothing).
> 秀才遇到兵, 有理說不清。秀才遇到的「兵」, 就是「四六不分」的人。





不争了不争了。 
谈谈而已。玩玩而已。 
(respectfully, as always)


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## brofeelgood

Here's a proper idiom that fits: "_Don't know shit from Shinola_".

To be honest, I've never heard of 四六不分 before, but it's not hard at all to figure out what it means. If you described someone as 猫狗不分 or 酒尿不分, I would suppose the same thing.



coolfool said:


> _*get to first base*_
> chiefly US _informal _: to make the first step in a course or process that you hope will lead further
> — usually used in negative statements
> Ex: Her proposal to change the tax laws never got to first base. [= never had any success at all]
> Ex: He kept asking her out, but he couldn't even get to first base. [= she would not agree to go on even one date with him]


I believe they are valid definitions, but what have they got to do with 四六不分?

Do these expressions make any sense to you?
他投了很多简历却没收到一个面试通知，连第一步都踏不出去，真是四六不分。
尽管约会了很多次，他还是没能四六不分牵到那女的一次手。


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## Skatinginbc

brofeelgood said:


> If you described someone as 猫狗不分 or 酒尿不分, I would suppose the same thing


在我腦裡會有不同的意義：

貓狗必須分開, 否則會貓狗大戰,  因此「貓狗不分」在我腦中指的是一種錯判、錯誤、或失誤 (譬如口誤, 筆誤。「貓」寫成「猫」從犬部, 本身就是古代貓狗不分的一種字源錯誤).

「酒尿不分」可如「貓狗不分」指錯判， 也可指「好壞不分」.

「鹿馬不分」指的是「是非不分」,「真假不分」(promoting alternative facts).

「四六不分」指的是缺乏最基礎的智能或邏輯概念。當我們說一個人連最起碼的「道理」(reasoning) 都不懂, 我們強調的不是他沒知識(poor knowledge)或錯判(misjudgement), 而是說他缺乏智力與邏輯。換句話說, 是呆, 是笨, 是不可理喻, 是不懂事理。也就是「秀才遇到兵, 有理說不清」的「兵」.


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## hx1997

I've never heard of 四六不分, but I know 不着四六 indeed.


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## coolfool

Dear Erebos12345, Senior Memer,

I couldn't respond immediately. Sorry. I have other fish to fry.

Noble Mr./Ms. Skatinginbc, Senior Member, like you, says “別爭了, 他四六不分, 多爭無益 He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground (= He knows from nothing). 秀才遇到兵, 有理說不清。秀才遇到的「兵」, 就是「四六不分」的人。If his, or her, 他 means me, fine. Obviously, broad-minded Skatinginbc beats narrow-minded fool, small potatoes to be exact. If it means you, I’m so sorry. I’m helpless, though looking down on him, or her, if he, or she, does mean it this way. To tell the truth, I can’t help but admire his, or her, tasteful Chinese as well as elegant English. I ache to learn from him, or her. But I know my place. Unfortunately I haven’t even got to first base, without _the _in the front of _first base_ this time, right or wrong.

Talking of the process of learning English outside the world of native English speakers, I’d, if I may, like to quote a Confucius sentence here. “I was bent around fifteen on study,” a legend goes, “went places by thirty, no longer was confused since forty, conceived the Mandate of Heaven from fifty on, took the hint after sixty the instant words hit my ears, and have given full rein to my emotions yet staying hardly out of rut come my seventh decade. Where am I then? You name it.

About _first base_, let me try one more time but no more to explain. I’m not convinced by your simple statement without reasonable, acceptable explanation with all due respect. You’ve yet to prove you’re in the right and I’m in the wrong. If you still can’t accept mine, so be it. Let’s drop the topic and forget it. It isn’t a Federal case to me. If it is to you, I surrender. You win! Fair enough? Then deal? Not shake the dust off our feet, but simply go our separate ways, respectively. You hit the sunny highway, I the single plank bridge. Because you, and you alone, without necessary evidence whatsoever provided by the authorities or the third party, claim you’re a native English speaker, grasping more English than I do. But I’m from Missouri, you know? Look, please allow me now to take the definition of _first base_ in _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_: _slang _the first stage or step toward completion or success. My humble suggestion was _haven’t even got to the first base_, not _gotten_ with _the _in the front of _first base_. Now it becomes _haven’t even got to the first step toward success_. Doesn’t it mean 连门都没有, 差老鼻子 in one way or the other give or take a sense or two? If one doesn’t even get to the first step to whatever, should he talk about reason or reasons at all? All roads lead to Rome, for better or for worse, yours are better beyond doubt and mine of course is worse, if not all wet, is this the one of them to native English speakers’ eyes?

About _eat humble pie_, we, I to be exact, are satisfied with more than enough sources that we’re able to absorb to a large extent, though dictionaries don’t, never, and are impossible to provide what you called the whole picture. Luckily, _eat humble pie_ is one entry of the sources. My cup is full for the time being.

“Haven’t I already shown you that dictionaries don’t give you the whole picture?” No, you haven’t yet. I’m all eyes.

I’m not a native English speaker. I don’t attempt by any means to pretend to be one of them. Furthermore, it’s impossible. If I happen with luck to write a somewhat natural sentence or two approved by you, I’m extremely glad. If not, so be it. It isn't the end of the world. I myself have no hard feelings about my own pidgin English, why should you? If you don’t, or have hard time to, follow it or them, why on earth you have to? Why waste your invaluable breath? Aren't you free to choose to chitchat with your bosom friends?

Of someone’s translating 好好学习天天向上 into _Good Good Study, Up Up Every Day_, take it or leave it. If non-native Britons and Americans speaking funny English vie with non-native Chinese speaking funny Chinese, they’re even. We’re not supposed to laugh one or the other. In this regard, I fails to see one party one-ups to the other. I make mistakes as often as not when I speak Mandarin, so do other peoples speaking their mother tongues. Except you? Nonetheless, I have faith in you. Even Homer sometimes nods. I, for one, don’t gloat over someone else’s error and suffering. If Chinese commit more errors of speaking and writing English than the ones done by the English speaking peoples combined doing Chinese, simply because there’re more Chinese learning and using English than the English speakers doing Chinese, even though there’re now a lot of Confucius schools all over the world running by the authorities by tightening the belts of its small people. If I were the author, I’d consider changing it to _Study harder than harder / hard and hard, On the up and up_, for your reference only. If it’s wrong again, kindly let me know. Thanks in advance. If you’ve got better one or two, kindly let me share yours.

Last but not least, deeply grateful for your crossing swords with me, a fool albeit cool somehow somewhat. Honestly, I’ve learned something, not to say a lot, from you.

With my best wishes,


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## fyl

Skatinginbc said:


> 別爭了, 他四六不分, 多爭無益 He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground (= He knows from nothing).
> 秀才遇到兵, 有理說不清。秀才遇到的「兵」, 就是「四六不分」的人。





brofeelgood said:


> To be honest, I've never heard of 四六不分 before, but it's not hard at all to figure out what it means.
> I believe they are valid definitions, but what have they got to do with 四六不分?


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## 2PieRad

brofeelgood said:


> Here's a proper idiom that fits: "_Don't know shit from Shinola_".


I can't say I'm familiar with that one.  But it's not too hard to figure out with a little bit of context. Does Shinola refer to this luxury brand: Shinola - Wikipedia ? If it does, then this expression must be pretty recent, considering Wikipedia says Shinola was founded in 2011.

Hi coolfool

I skimmed what you wrote, but I don't want to run the risk of me misinterpreting what you've written (again), or getting off-topic, so I'll just tell you that you can post your doubts and questions about English in the English Only forum. Provide adequate context. People there will be quick and eager to tell you whether your usage is correct/natural/comprehensible. Hence the purpose of WordReference Forums. I learn language X. I want to use a phrase in language X. I check with native speakers of X in forum X to see if my usage is correct/natural/comprehensible. All the best.


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## coolfool

Hi, Erebos12345,

_New Oxford English Dictionary_:
*not know shit from Shinola*: _vulgar slang _used to indicate that someone is ignorant or innocent

We're all unaware of 四六不分, which we'd probably take it as 文体不分, as was above proved, for it's Tianjin dialect. The explanation given by Baidu is for reference only, I'm not sure if it's right. If we now temporarily assume the interpretation stands, it isn't of something vulgar. Hence, if we use some vulgar English to describe it, from the point of view of style, do you believe it's proper?


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## brofeelgood

Erebos12345 said:


> I can't say I'm familiar with that one.  But it's not too hard to figure out with a little bit of context. Does Shinola refer to this luxury brand: Shinola - Wikipedia ? If it does, then this expression must be pretty recent, considering Wikipedia says Shinola was founded in 2011.


That's a different company mate . Here's the right Wiki entry - Shinola (shoe polish) and what it says inside:

Shinola was immortalized in colloquial English by the phrase "You don't know shit from Shinola" which first became widely popular during World War II.[9][10]
It's also listed in the McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs: Shinola.


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## Skatinginbc

My spouse, who is American, says that expression ("don't know shit from Shinola") is old-timey and not often heard these days.


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## brofeelgood

Can't disagree with the missus there. The company in question went bust in 1960.


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## Skatinginbc

雖很少人這麼說了, 老一輩的人還是聽得懂的 。


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## 2PieRad

brofeelgood said:


> Can't disagree with the missus there. The company in question went bust in 1960.


Ah. Makes sense now. 

We didn't all just date ourselves, did we? Haha


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