# Learnt vs learned



## Alfry

Hello boys
Just curious....

which do you prefer between :
1 - I've learnt
2 - I've learned

thanksssss


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## danalto

> La busta n°2! <


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## Alfry

danalto said:
			
		

> > La busta n°2! <


guarda che fai ancora a tempo a cambiare
ti offro la uno e 10 euro


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## mimitabby

anche io la busta numero due.
Learnt e' vecchio


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## Alfry

mimitabby said:
			
		

> anche io la busta numero due.
> Learnt e' vecchio


è vecchio ma lo ho letto e sentito molte volte, ecco perchè ero curioso
grazie ragazze


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## Focalist

alfry said:
			
		

> Hello boys
> Just curious....
> 
> which do you prefer between :
> 1 - I've learnt
> 2 - I've learned
> 
> thanksssss


British English has "learnt" and "learned"
American English has only "learned"
See:
http://www.onestopenglish.com/english_grammar/british_american.htm (find: Past tense forms)

F


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## Alfry

Focalist said:
			
		

> British English has "learnt" and "learned"
> American English has only "learned"
> See:
> http://www.onestopenglish.com/english_grammar/british_american.htm (find: Past tense forms)
> 
> F


which do you prefer should you choose one of them?


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## mimitabby

ah, those brits again!


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## laurika

I prefer number two - non puoi sbagliare...


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## Alfry

laurika said:
			
		

> I prefer number two - non puoi sbagliare...


perchè non mi conosci bene
io sbaglio anche quando nessuno avrebbe mai sbagliato


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## laurika

alfry said:
			
		

> perchè non mi conosci bene
> io sbaglio anche quando nessuno avrebbe mai sbagliato


beh, non mi sembra cosi..  
ho visto come hai "trovato" il materiale per questo thread, e mi sembra che tu sia tipo di persona molto analitica, voglio dire che bisogni sapere tutto in dettagli, o sbaglio?  
Ciao


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## Alfry

laurika said:
			
		

> beh, non mi sembra cosi..
> ho visto come hai "trovato" il materiale per questo thread, e mi sembra che tu sia tipo di persona molto analitica, voglio dire che bisogni sapere tutto in dettagli, o sbaglio?
> Ciao


proprio in dettaglio no ma per determinate cose sono abbastanza fissato.
il rovescio della medaglia è che per altre cose sono esattamente l'opposto


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## Silvia

Learned mi sembra più facile da pronunciare per un italiano... tutto lì.

Laurika, il verbo "bisognare" è impersonale, non può essere coniugato come un normale verbo:

Bisogna aprire gli occhi per vedere.
Bisognava vederlo, per capire.
Non bisogna credere a tutto quello che dice la televisione.
Bisogna che qualcuno te lo spieghi


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## leenico

> Definitely "learnT" !!


 Art! Non dirre questo. Only the dumb kids say "learnt". "I learnt my lesson".


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## lsp

I'm with leenico on this one. LEARNED! Learnt sounds like ya ain't learnt nuttin'!


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## paolorausch

I think Learnt is the Past Participle? I have learnt?

I agree, to an American "Learnt" sounded very odd, like you are uneducated.

Did you all understand what lsp meant by "y'all ain't learnt nuttin'!"?


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## Alfry

paolorausch said:
			
		

> I think Learnt is the Past Participle? I have learnt?
> 
> I agree, to an American "Learnt" sounded very odd, like you are uneducated.
> 
> Did you all understand what lsp meant by "y'all ain't learnt nuttin'!"?


voi tutti non avete imparato niente... is it correct?
or were you talking about a hidden meaning?


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## paolorausch

Good Job, Alfry! That is how some people in the south and around the country speak, it sounds very uneducated. "y'all" "ain't" et cetera.


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## Alfry

paolorausch said:
			
		

> Good Job, Alfry! That is how some people in the south and around the country speak, it sounds very uneducated. "y'all" "ain't" et cetera.


thanks Paolo.
I often hear people talking like that.... ain't, gonna, wanna and so on... 
I thought it was a matter of dialects or spoken American Language, I didn't imagine it was so uneducated!!!


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## Focalist

alfry said:
			
		

> which do you prefer should you choose one of them?


I always would have said that I preferred "learnt" -- until fellow forum member Cuchufléte pointed out to me the fact that I had written "learned" in a post...

Am still trying to establish a theory to explain why I sometimes write "learnt" and sometimes "learned".

Here's part of the evidence being considered at present:

I'd write: 
"I learnt English at my mother's knee" 
but
"I learned Italian at university". 

Also:
"Having burnt himself earlier, he took great care" 
but
"Having burned all the letters, he had no proof". 

F


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## Silvia

F, that makes no sense to me, since I cannot understand the difference.

Maybe it's just me...


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## lsp

F, I thought burnt was an adjective and found this dictionary entry that supports me.

Meaning of BURNT
WordNet Dictionary
Definition:
[adj] *ruined by overcooking; "she served us underdone bacon and burnt buscuits"
[adj] *destroyed or badly damaged by fire; "a row of burned houses"; "a charred bit of burnt wood"; "barricaded the street with burnt-out cars"
[adj] *hardened by subjecting to intense heat; "baked bricks"; "burned bricks"
[adj] *treated by heating to a high temperature but below the melting or fusing point; "burnt sienna"
[adj] *having undergone oxidation; "burned powder"

Which made me look up learnt (m-w.com), and found that it is British, as you said and may determine the varying preferences expressed:
Main Entry: learnt 
Pronunciation: 'l&rnt
chiefly British past and past participle of LEARN


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## Silvia

Well, for anyone's information, I don't know if anything has changed lately, but in Italy we only learn British English at school.


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## paolorausch

I prefer British English, because it is actually International English, and it preserves word origins better (in spelling). Besides, I think it is better to make English more uniform in the written kind so that everyone can better understand. and lastly International English is prettier.

Alfry, i think that is brings in the whole "is there a right english" or "is there a right Italian". It is spoken dialect, but in America, dialects are frowned. Just as you learn Standard in school, they are speaking non-standard. But in America that sounds uneducated, people cannot easily switch from dialect to standard. Do you follow? I can elaborate.


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## Focalist

silviap said:
			
		

> F, that makes no sense to me, since I cannot understand the difference.
> 
> Maybe it's just me...


Don't wory, silvia, it wouldn't.

Because the samples I quoted are... just me (my idiolect).

Learnt / learned, Burnt / burned can be used interchangeably in BrE. 

I would point out that the -t forms are often "preferred", i.e. by academic publishers and institutes of learning: one such writes


> The following may end either in "-ed" or "-t", but the latter is preferred:
> burned or burnt
> dreamed or dreamt
> kneeled or knelt
> leaned or leant
> leaped or leapt
> learned or learnt
> smelled or smelt
> spelled or spelt
> spilled or spilt
> spoiled or spoilt


but the -ed forms are frequently found in BrE too.

F


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## Silvia

Thank you, Focalist.

As I said earlier, we just learn British English, and we know its irregular verbs almost by heart, though I guess the trend is to let them turn into regular verbs little by little.

I guess laziness will have a big part in the process.


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## laurika

silviap said:
			
		

> Learned mi sembra più facile da pronunciare per un italiano... tutto lì.
> 
> Laurika, il verbo "bisognare" è impersonale, non può essere coniugato come un normale verbo:
> 
> Bisogna aprire gli occhi per vedere.
> Bisognava vederlo, per capire.
> Non bisogna credere a tutto quello che dice la televisione.
> Bisogna che qualcuno te lo spieghi


Grazie, Silviap,
I will remember it and next time Ill use it in correct form, 
thank you


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## laurika

hi, 
I would like to contribute again, 
in american english you can freely use learned
and I agree with focalist that in british english you can switch between learnd/learnt, as I heard the irregular forms are preferred but those regular are not considered wrong.
what is the native british speakers´ opinion?

bye


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## Silvia

Sono sicura che se avessi trasformato in regolare un verbo irregolare 20 anni fa, avrei di sicuro visto un bel segno rosso come correzione e sarei stata penalizzata in termini di voto.


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## robbinling

I didn't know that American English has only "learned"
I stay in a country where everybody uses Queen's English (Brits) when it comes to writing. Over here, everybody speaks American English but in schools, they are using Brits' as guidance!!   
i guess whichever is fine with me.....


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## laurika

silviap said:
			
		

> Sono sicura che se avessi trasformato in regolare un verbo irregolare 20 anni fa, avrei di sicuro visto un bel segno rosso come correzione e sarei stata penalizzata in termini di voto.


beh,
Silviap, saresti cosi gentile e me lo tradurresti: in termini di voto?
il mio italiano e molto debole, lo so, almeno cosi posso imparare un po..
grazie, non so come esprimere bene: una donna molto gentile e simpatica

ciao


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## laurika

ehi, one difference more:
in british e. the past participle of get is GOT, while in american e. the past participle of get is GOTTEN
so much so from Cambridge university press, I myself am not so clever...

bye,


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## Silvia

laurika said:
			
		

> beh,
> Silviap, saresti cosi gentile e me lo tradurresti: in termini di voto?


In terms of grades (AmE), marks (BE)


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## webtrek

Learnt is gradually being abandoned in favor of learned, but both are (still) correct. Note, however, that "learned" as an adjective (eg. a learned man = un uomo colto) is both British and American.

Regards,

webtrek


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## robbinling

thanks for the info


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## alain larochelle

The object of this thread has just popped up on the french-english forum, that is why this reply is so very late. My feeling after reading the whole _dossier_ is that the -nt form is more passive: My pie is burnt: it has [_I]been_ burned[/I] my house is burned: it has been _burning_...???...Just trying to cut through...but what do i know? I'm francophone.


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## cuchuflete

laurika said:
			
		

> ehi, one difference more:
> in british e. the past participle of get is GOT, while in american e. the past participle of get is GOTTEN
> so much so from Cambridge university press, I myself am not so clever...
> 
> bye,



Cambridge University Press is far from the action they describe.  In normal spoken AE, both are used as the past part. of to get, but got is considerably more common.  Or so I've learnt by listening to my compatriots for more than a few decades.

Sloppy lexicographers at CUP should be burnt at the stake, or burned, if they so prefer.


saluti,

Cuchuflete


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## Vanzo Scheì

Focalist said:
			
		

> British English has "learnt" and "learned"
> American English has only "learned"
> See:
> http://www.onestopenglish.com/english_grammar/british_american.htm (find: Past tense forms)
> 
> F


 
That's not true.  In the American rural areas, we use forms like "learnt" all the time, and it is frequently used all across New England, even in Boston.


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## Panpan

As a BE speaker, I would translate 

I learned - imparavo
I learnt - ho imparato

I have forgotten all the French I learned at school (the learning was ongoing, over a period of time)
I learnt a new Italian word today. (Someone used an unusual word, which instantly supplemented my vocabulary).

Hope that helps

Panpan


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## roxcyn

Panpan said:
			
		

> As a BE speaker, I would translate
> 
> I learned - imparavo
> I learnt - ho imparato
> 
> I have forgotten all the French I learned at school (the learning was ongoing, over a period of time)
> I learnt a new Italian word today. (Someone used an unusual word, which instantly supplemented my vocabulary).
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> Panpan



I don't think that makes sense because in BE you all say "learnt" right?  But in AE we are supposed to say "learned"?  But I always say learnt and I have grown up here all my life.  So, I can see how each could be considered passato prossimo or imperfetto but not in all the casses.  

Example: I learnt (learned) to speak Spanish when I was little.  

Imparavo parlare lo spagnolo quando ero piccolo.

Because I would say I learnt, but I know other speakers would say learned. 

In summary, I think that learned, learnt can be interchangable in English, but in Italian, you have got to know what the meaning is in order to use what tense.


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## Alxmrphi

I don't even know what I say, I think in speech I merge the two...

It's not hard to confuse the "ed" with the "t" sound, like the Spanish do, but I think if I was writing.. I'll see, I'll just type it.. *learnt* it is.


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## coppergirl

Ciao a tutti,

My Brit husband uses "learnt" and I use "learned", because that is what I learned when I was little in America.  

To me, "learnt" and "spelt" sound archaic slightly.  In AE we do something similar because we say "gotten" whilst in BE they say "got".

Both "learned" and "learnt" are comprehensible, but to me I don't like the hard "t" on the Brit version of these words and so try to teach the kids to use "learned" instead.

My husband then tells them not to.

By the way, dialects and accents may suggest a lack of education, but be careful of stereotypes.  I have several very clever friends from the Southern states, y'all, and several less educated ones from Northern states.  

Ciao y'all!


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## moodywop

roxcyn said:
			
		

> . So, I can see how each could be considered passato prossimo or imperfetto but not in all the casses.
> 
> Example: I learnt (learned) to speak Spanish when I was little.
> 
> Imparavo parlare lo spagnolo quando ero piccolo.
> 
> In summary, I think that learned, learnt can be interchangable in English, but in Italian, you have got to know what the meaning is in order to use what tense.


 
Roxcyn

You should have used the present perfect in your example:

_Ho imparato a parlare lo spagnolo quando ero piccolo_

The imperfect would be used if you were talking about something you used to do (or be able to do) in the past:

_Quando ero piccolo imparavo molto rapidamente_

_Quando vivevo a Londra andavo a(l) cinema molto più spesso_

It's interesting that you use "learnt". I've often been corrected by Americans who claimed that "learned" was wrong and were obviously unfamiliar with British usage. Apparently "learnt" is indeed used in some areas of the United States.


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## ceci '79

coppergirl said:
			
		

> By the way, dialects and accents may suggest a lack of education


 
But not in a foreigner, I suppose?!

If I met a foreigner with, let's say, a strong Roman accent (which I did), I would think "That's remarkable... he must have spent a very long time in Rome!" No more, no less.


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## coppergirl

ceci '79 said:
			
		

> But not in a foreigner, I suppose?!
> 
> If I met a foreigner with, let's say, a strong Roman accent (which I did), I would think "That's remarkable... he must have spent a very long time in Rome!" No more, no less.


I think the difference here is that in the US, people with certain accents may be stereotyped as uneducated because this is backed up in US culture in cartoons and television shows, whereas stereotypes based on accents and dialects in Italy might only suggest a person's place of origin.  However, this may vary, depending on other perceptions within a culture.

The situation I was referring to was within the US culture specifically, though, since I can't speak for what happens in other cultures such as in Italy.


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## Tresley

I always say and write 'learnt'. 

Whenever I hear someone say 'learned' it makes me think that they are uneducated and don't know how to conjugate the verb.


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