# Pronunciation of -en endings



## българин

Yet, another pronunciation confusion in Dutch. It seems to me that the "n" endings are often left silent on some words, like "weke*n*", "binne*n*", "zitte*n*"....Is there a rule or are the speakers speaking too fast, thus the reason why I don't hear the "n" in the endings?


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## optimistique

You are right. The final -n is not pronounced after an unstressed -e- (which is a schwa). You just say '_weke_', '_binne_', '_zitte_'. 

Note that as a result all verb infinitives in fact only consist of an '-e', since you don't pronounce the 'n' (with of course the exception of 'doen', 'staan', 'gaan', 'slaan', 'zien' & 'zijn', where the circumstances are different, so the -n is pronounced).


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## jippie

I'm sorry Optimistique, but I don't agree. If the -en is followed by a vocal, you do pronounce the -n: _ik ga 3 weken op vakantie_. The only time the -n is not pronounced is in 'samenstellingen', for example binnenzitten.


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## Qcumber

jippie said:


> I'm sorry Optimistique, but I don't agree. If the -en is followed by a vocal, you do pronounce the -n: _ik ga 3 weken op vakantie_. The only time the -n is not pronounced is in 'samenstellingen', for example binnenzitten.


Is *Leiden* pronounced ['laid@n] or ['laid@] (@ = schwa).
I remember hearing ['laid@] i.e. with a silent /n/, but a man from Flanders told me I should pronounce it ['laid@n] i.e. with the /n/.


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## българин

optimistique said:


> You are right. The final -n is not pronounced after an unstressed -e- (which is a schwa). You just say '_weke_', '_binne_', '_zitte_'.
> 
> Note that as a result all verb infinitives in fact only consist of an '-e', since you don't pronounce the 'n' (with of course the exception of 'doen', 'staan', 'gaan', 'slaan', 'zien' & 'zijn', where the circumstances are different, so the -n is pronounced).


 
I am a bit puzzled by the "schwa" word? Can you please explain; is it a rule in the language, is it a sound...etc? So, who is right? jippie or optimistique?


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## Setwale_Charm

Interesting! I have never noticed that.


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## optimistique

First, the schwa is a sound. It is the vowel in Dutch words, like "*'t*", d*e*, or in zitt*e*n, wek*e*n.

Jippie, it's very well possible that you speak a variant of Dutch where you do pronounce the -n after a vowel, but I say:

ik ga 3 weke op vakantie, so without -n.

Also, I pronounce 'Leiden' without -n. It sounds very overpronounced with, but I admit that this can be different for speakers from other regions, so I think everybody is right in this case.


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## Qcumber

optimistique said:


> Also, I pronounce 'Leiden' without -n. It sounds very overpronounced with, but I admit that this can be different for speakers from other regions, so I think everybody is right in this case.


Thank you.


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## Kirpan

Most people from the Northern provinces of the Netherlands do pronounce the -N at the end of a word, even stress it. Some people from other provinces also prefer to pronounce the N. It may sometimes be considered hypercorrect, but it is not always. For the Northerners it is the only correct way of speaking. They may however swallow the E, so a word may sound like Leidn, or Noordn.


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## iglesias

Hi,

    Another question.
    Is the 'n' always pronounced  in "Names" ??
    Ex: Delen , Helen , Ellen ...

    Thanks.


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## Kirpan

Yes, in names like Hellen or Ellen etc. the N is always pronounced in (as far as I kinow) all provinces of Holland and Belgium and also in Afrikaans (as I am now in Kaapstad)


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## -MilicianA-

Kirpan said:


> Most people from the Northern provinces of the Netherlands do pronounce the -N at the end of a word, even stress it. Some people from other provinces also prefer to pronounce the N. It may sometimes be considered hypercorrect, but it is not always. For the Northerners it is the only correct way of speaking. They may however swallow the E, so a word may sound like Leidn, or Noordn.


The same thing happens in the provinces of West- and East-Flanders, where they "swallow" the -e yet pronounce the -n. Often a cost of whatever letter stands before the -en. (for example, "moeten" sounds like moe'n).



Kirpan said:


> Yes, in names like Hellen or Ellen etc. the N is always pronounced in (as far as I kinow) all provinces of Holland and Belgium and also in Afrikaans (as I am now in Kaapstad)


In Belgium, a name such as "Steven" (with Dutch pronounciation, not the English one), or "Maarten", the same thing occurs as in "zitten". E sounds, N disappears.


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## Dada_

It's not like the n is never pronounced in such cases. It's just that a lot of people don't seem to do it. It's an accent thing.

Another frequent occurrence is the n sounding like it's part of another word. For example, in "ik ga drie weken op vakantie", you might hear "we-ke-nop va-kan-tie (etc.)", especially when people talk quickly.


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## MarX

Hej!

I guess it is an accent thing.
My relatives in Huizen drop their -n.

In German there are many accents (Rheinisch, Schwäbisch, etc.) where you drop the *-n*, while others, including the "standard" pronunciation, drops or "swallows" the *-e-* instead.
So the words *Hafen, Wochen, gewinnen, sitzen* can be pronounced as _hafm, wochng, gewinnn, sitzn_ or _hafe, woche, gewinne, sitze_, although the latter are considered dialectal.
Interestingly, I've never heard any native German speaker on normal speed pronouncing *-en* as* -en*. Either the *-e-* is dropped, or the *-n*.

Groetjes,


MarX


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## George French

Let's look on the bright side, especially if Dutch is your second language.

If you pronounce or do not pronounce the n, then nearly every Dutch person understands you....

And when they reply to you in English..... they have similar problems...

C'est la vie.


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## Vegetable

It often occurs that the -n isn't pronounced, but as some already mentioned it is always pronounced when followed by a vowel (and sometimes H), to link the words.
example:
"We moeten ons verdedigen" -> "moetenons"
"Wij zitten hier" -> "zittenier"
"Jullie hebben goed gewerkt" -> "hebbe goed"


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## Dada_

To elaborate on Vegetable's post, it really depends on what's easiest to pronounce.

In "We moeten ons verdedigen." it's better to keep the "n", since "moe-te-nons" is easier to pronounce than "moe-te ons".

Whereas in "Jullie hebben goed gewerkt.", it's better to drop the "n", since "heb-be-goed" is easier to pronounce than "heb-ben goed".

(Note that, in my examples, the dashes indicate pieces of text that can be pronounced in one "chain", whereas spaces indicate a pause.)


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## SonicXT

Vegetable said:


> It often occurs that the -n isn't pronounced, but as some already mentioned it is always pronounced when followed by a vowel (and sometimes H), to link the words.
> example:
> "We moeten ons verdedigen" -> "moetenons"
> "Wij zitten hier" -> "zittenier"
> "Jullie hebben goed gewerkt" -> "hebbe goed"


Hmm, I was always used to omitting the schwa vowel if the "-en" word is following by a word that starts with a vowel and somehow overstressing the consonants before the "en"
So in your exampels I would tend to say "wij moe'tons" and "wij zi'tier", with a slight rise in tone before the ' and a drop afterwards. The ' represent a really short silence.

Ain't sure if this would be an acceptable way of pronouncing it, but it's what I'm used to.


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## optimistique

SonicXT said:


> Hmm, I was always used to omitting the schwa vowel if the "-en" word is following by a word that starts with a vowel and somehow overstressing the consonants before the "en"
> So in your exampels I would tend to say "wij moe'tons" and "wij zi'tier", with a slight rise in tone before the ' and a drop afterwards. The ' represent a really short silence.
> 
> Ain't sure if this would be an acceptable way of pronouncing it, but it's what I'm used to.



I was thinking exactly the same, that's how I would pronounce it too.


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## Greetd

Grytolle said:


> That would as a rule only be true in a few loanwords... I'm too tired to come up with any better example than "elentriek", right now, which is 1) non-standard and 2) dialectally masculine





Joannes said:


> Greet, it's different for compounds, as you know. Few people would pronounce the /n/ in *kippensoep*.
> 
> (Mind also for example that auslaut devoicing still applies in compounds: I'm sorry I can't come up with a better example right now but *huisverkoper* has [sf], while it's [z] in *huizen*.)



Grytolle, you isolated a statement out of my explanation, it doesn't make sense without the sentence after that. 

I said: _"The -n- is pronounced because it is in the middle of a word. The /n/ sound changes to /m/ under the influence of the /b/, this is called assimilation; /m/ and /b/ are both bilabial sounds (produced with the lips)."_

Maybe I should rephrase that to make it more clear, though:
_"The -n- is, in this case, pronounced because it is not on the end of a word but in the middle of a word AND it is followed by a /b/, which makes the /n/ change to /m/"._
Another example of this is "verhalenboek" [verhalemboek]. An example without a compound is "een metalen bril", where you could choose between the pronunciation [metalebril] or [metalembril] because it's not a compound.

I agree that in other cases, for example kippensoep, the -n- is not pronounced, but that's because it is in that case followed by a /s/.

(Sorry Frank, I don't mean to go off topic, but I really wanted to clear up that misunderstanding. Also, it's an interesting discussion indeed, maybe it could be split off from this topic and we could continue in a new one?  )


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## LoveVanPersie

Kirpan said:


> Yes, in names like Hellen or Ellen etc. the N is always pronounced in (as far as I kinow) all provinces of Holland and Belgium and also in Afrikaans (as I am now in Kaapstad)





-MilicianA- said:


> In Belgium, a name such as "Steven" (with Dutch pronounciation, not the English one), or "Maarten", the same thing occurs as in "zitten". E sounds, N disappears.


What about names and surnames like _Arjen_, _Coren_, _Lauren_, _Owen_, _Ruben_,_ Steffen_,_ Bertens_, _Martens_, _Mertens_?  
And did you mean the _n_ of _Steven_ with English pronunciation in Dutch isn't elided?


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## Red Arrow

LoveVanPersie said:


> What about names and surnames like _Arjen_, _Coren_, _Lauren_, _Owen_, _Ruben_,_ Steffen_,_ Bertens_, _Martens_, _Mertens_?
> And did you mean the _n_ of _Steven_ with English pronunciation in Dutch isn't elided?


It only happens with Maarte(n), Steve(n) and Rube(n). Maybe some other names, but not the ones you mention. Also not with Ellen. However, my surname ends with -ellen and I always drop the N.


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## LoveVanPersie

Does this elision happen in singing as frequent as under other circumstances?


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## Red Arrow

LoveVanPersie said:


> Does this elision happen in singing as frequent as under other circumstances?


Probably not in the past, but nowadays it is pretty much standardized. It is like not pronouncing the T in "often" in English.

According to Marc van Oostendorp, it was still common for Dutch newscasters to pronounce every final N in 1985, but by 1992, many Ns were dropped.


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## bibibiben

optimistique said:


> I was thinking exactly the same, that's how I would pronounce it too.


Yes, agreed.

Even a proper name like _Ellen_  can lose its final n in many positions, if not all. I am personally inclined to maintain n in rare or foreign sounding names such as _Owen, Lauren_ and _Coren_. _Arjen _will probably keep its n in most positions because of its close association with _Arjan, _but I'm not too sure of it._ Maarten, Marten, Steffen, Steven_ and _Ruben_ are very unlikely to keep their n's. These run-of-the-mill names will be easily understood with an elided n.


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## LoveVanPersie

Can_ n _in _Jurgen _and _den_ (e.g. _Van den Berg_) also be elided?


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## ThomasK

In Belgium you will hear the n in the West of Flanders but not in Brabant (and Antwerp, which together constitute the historic duchy of Brabant). That is due to the dialectal forms that people are used to...


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## Red Arrow

LoveVanPersie said:


> Can_ n _in _Jurgen _and _den_ (e.g. _Van den Berg_) also be elided?


Jurgen sounds somewhat German, so I would keep the N.


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## LoveVanPersie

ThomasK said:


> In Belgium you will hear the n in the West of Flanders but not in Brabant (and Antwerp, which together constitute the historic duchy of Brabant). That is due to the dialectal forms that people are used to...


Does this also apply to _ten _and _den_?
I mean, the only IPA transcription on Wiktionary for _ten _and _den _is /-ɛn/, but I think I have heard some people pronounce them as /-ən/ on audios and videos. Am I wrong?
And if they could be pronounced as /-ən/, can the /n/ be elided?


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## Red Arrow

"te" and "ten" might sometimes be confused, but when you say "ten", the N is not dropped. "ten" indeed has two possible pronunciations.

"den" is pronounced with a schwa just like the other articles (de, het, een), but this word is considered dialectical or archaic. "den" can also mean "pine tree", but then it has a different pronunciation: /dɛn/.

Be aware that English and Dutch words can never end with /ɛ/!


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for your explanation!
Would you drop the _n _in _den _when it is pronounced with a schwa?
And I also wonder if _ter _could be pronounced with a schwa?


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## Red Arrow

If the N in "den" is dropped, it is spelled "de".

"ter" can also be pronounced with a schwa, just like "ten" and "het".


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## LoveVanPersie

What about the _n_'s of _en_ and _een_ when pronounced with a schwa? I heard them be dropped on a YouTube video. Would most Dutch speakers drop the _n_'s of them?


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## Red Arrow

LoveVanPersie said:


> What about the _n_'s of _en_ and _een_ when pronounced with a schwa? I heard them be dropped on a YouTube video. Would most Dutch speakers drop the _n_'s of them?


Which country was he/she from?

The N in "een" can be dropped before many het-words, but that is considered somewhat dialectical. I don't think this is common in the Netherlands. 

In Afrikaans, 'n is always pronounced like a schwa and the N is always silent before any consonant.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for your patient replies!

It's _ik heb een nieuwe kerst cd van nick en simon er bij konijn5. _The uploader is from Friesland, the Netherlands and he also speaks Frisian according to his profile.
At 0:08, he dropped the _n _of _en_. At 0:12 it sounded as if the _n_ of _een _was dropped at first, but after listening to it several times, I'm not sure now... And at 0:10, he seemed to drop the _n_ of _van_ as well?


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## Peterdg

I looked up this video. First of all: don't take this guy as a an example of Dutch pronunciation. It is horrible. I only understand half (manner of speaking) of what he is saying.

Anyway, in the locations you mentioned, I don't hear any drop of "n".


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## bamia

I can't find the video you're referring to but it seems like the person who made it is very low class judging by the title of the video. Unless you specifically want to sound like that I suggest using other material, like NOS, Canvas or VRT news broadcasts and documentaries.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for your comment and suggestion!


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## bibibiben

LoveVanPersie said:


> Can_ n _in _Jurgen _and _den_ (e.g. _Van den Berg_) also be elided?


Yes, _n _in _Jurgen _could be elided. 

_Van den Berg _will most certainly be reduced to _Van de Berg_. Nobody will notice the difference.

Something that grinds my gears: the pronunciation of _Voltaren_. It's an unusual word, so I would say that _Voltaren _is the acceptable pronunciation. Commercials bluntly propose _Voltare_, though.


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## LoveVanPersie

Dank je wel bibibiben!


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