# by now



## eni8ma

When I typed "by now" into the Google translator  it came up with "к настоящему времена" - that's a mouthful!

What is a good way to say "by now" in Russian?

He should be nearly there by now.
If you don't know me by now ...

Он должно быть почти туда (by now)
Если Вы меня не знаете (by now)


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> When I typed "by now" into the Google translator  it came up with "к настоящему времени" - that's a mouthful!



К настоящему времени is a real variant (and not mouthful at all for Russians), although quite formal and bookish or better say newspaper.

The nearest equivaleте in normal speech is к этому времени (if it's clear from the context that it means 'by now').
More often it is expressed just as уже or in other ways.

He should be nearly there by now.
Он *уже *должен быть почти на месте (там).

If you don't know me by now ...
Если ты *до сих пор* не знаешь меня...


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> When I typed "by now" into the Google translator  it came up with "к настоящему времена" - that's a mouthful!
> 
> What is a good way to say "by now" in Russian?
> 
> He should be nearly there by now.
> If you don't know me by now ...
> 
> Он должно быть почти туда (by now)
> Если Вы меня не знаете (by now)





It depends on context:

He should be nearly there by now. - Он *уже* должен быть здесь (*к этому времени*).
If you don't know me by now ... - Если ты *до сих пор* меня не узнала....


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## morzh

Look at that - almost exactly the same


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> К настоящему времени is a real variant (and not mouthful at all for Russians), although quite formal and bookish or better say newspaper.


So far as I can see, this means "to date", which as you say, is more formal, and not really the sense of "by now".

"To date" is more like "so far", with the expectation of more to follow.
"By now" has more of a feel of a "deadline" of sorts; in other words, "by now" a certain condition should exist (you should know me, he should be almost there).



Maroseika said:


> He should be nearly there by now.
> Он *уже *должен быть почти на месте (там).



на месте? там seems more what I had in mind.
(I think I originally had a verb of motion in there, hence туда in my suggestion)



Maroseika said:


> If you don't know me by now ...
> Если ты *до сих пор* не знаешь меня...


до сих пор seems to mean "up to now; thus far", which is more like "so far".

According to one reference, to express a deadline, use к + dative, or под + Accusative, but of course, there seems to be no word for "now" that can be declined.

I suppose it is another expression that has no direct correlation in Russian, so I'll just have to use the closest sense of what I mean.


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## morzh

Two people independently gave you almost exact same translation. Should've told you something.


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## eni8ma

morzh said:


> Two people independently gave you almost exact same translation. Should've told you something.



Yep! 



eni8ma said:


> "By now" has more of a feel of a "deadline" of sorts; in other words,  "by now" a certain condition should exist (you should know me, he should  be almost there).
> 
> до сих пор seems to mean "up to now; thus far", which is more like "so far".
> 
> I suppose it is another expression that has no direct correlation in  Russian, so I'll just have to use the closest sense of what I  mean.


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## morzh

What I am trying to say, you are overanalyzing it. 

In every language there may be a phrase that is habitually used in exact same context, but does not exactly by itself has the same meaning as its counterpart in another language.

This is that same situation. There is a bit of a difference when you translate the piece by itself, but being put in a sentence it means exactly what is meant in another language (English in our case).

You have to translate the whole sentence, not just a part of it. (and I do not mean word-by-word; even phrase by phrase may be too fine a granularity).


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## eni8ma

morzh said:


> In every language there may be a phrase that is habitually used in exact  same context, but does not exactly by itself has the same meaning as  its counterpart in another language.
> 
> You have to translate the whole sentence, not just a part of it. (and I  do not mean word-by-word; even phrase by phrase may be too fine a  granularity).


... which is what I already said ...


eni8ma said:


> I suppose it is another expression that has no direct correlation in Russian, so I'll just have to use the closest sense of what I mean.


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> So far as I can see, this means "to date", which as you say, is more formal, and not really the sense of "by now".
> 
> "To date" is more like "so far", with the expectation of more to follow.
> "By now" has more of a feel of a "deadline" of sorts; in other words, "by now" a certain condition should exist (you should know me, he should be almost there).



К настоящему (этому) времени also has a strong feel of a deadline.




> на месте? там seems more what I had in mind.
> (I think I originally had a verb of motion in there, hence туда in my suggestion)


На месте is widely used exactly in the sense you need, if only both know what место is presumed?

- Ты когда завтра на работе?
- Да уже с восьми на месте.


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> На месте is widely used exactly in the sense you need, if only both know what место is presumed?
> 
> - Ты когда завтра на работе?
> - Да уже с восьми на месте.



- He left two hours ago; he should be nearly there          by now.

"there" could mean another town, a hotel, or an airport - anywhere, really.  I am assuming that everyone in the conversation already knows where "there" is.

Seems like на месте has a feeling of being "in place" like a cricketer  on a field, or a construction site. Is arriving at a distant location  also, in a sense, на месте?

I thought там would be a more general word to use?


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> - He left two hours ago; he should be nearly there by now.
> 
> "there" could mean another town, a hotel, or an airport - anywhere, really.  I am assuming that everyone in the conversation already knows where "there" is.
> 
> Seems like на месте has a feeling of being "in place" like a cricketer  on a field, or a construction site. Is arriving at a distant location  also, in a sense, на месте?



Yes, на месте fits very well here. 



> I thought там would be a more general word to use?


This also works, but там should be on the last place:
Он уже должен быть там.

However I don't think this is the most general way to express this idea. More often we use perfective for of a verb:
Он должен был уже добраться (доехать, приехать, прилететь, доплыть, доползти, etc.).


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> However I don't think this is the most general way to express this idea. More often we use perfective of a verb:
> Он должен был уже добраться (доехать, приехать, прилететь, доплыть, доползти, etc.).



So ...
- Он ушел два часа назад. Он должен будет уже почти дойти.
- He left two hours ago. He must have almost arrived.

What about:
- Он теперь/сейчас должен будет уже почти дойти  /?
- He must have almost arrived now.


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## Sobakus

eni8ma said:


> So ...
> - Он ушел два часа назад. Он должен будет уже почти дойти.
> - He left two hours ago. He must have almost arrived.
> 
> What about:
> - Он теперь/сейчас должен будет уже почти дойти  /?
> - He must have almost arrived now.



Быть is perfective verb, so in present tense it refers to a future action. You variants mean that "he's *going to* almost arrive there right about now". Note the "almost arrive" part which sounds weird(почти shouldn't be used here). You have to put the verb "дойти" in the past tense and replace the modal verb "должен" with some adverb of probability. You variants in present basically mean the same, but still.

- Он сейчас, наверное, уже почти дошёл.
- Он сейчас, должно быть, уже почти дошёл.
= He must have almost arrived now.

Должен был can be used as well, but only without the probability adverbs, it can also be used to express your discontent of someone not showing up in time:
- Он должен был уже прийти к этому времени.
- He ought to have arrived by now.


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## eni8ma

Sobakus said:


> Быть is perfective verb, so in present tense it refers to a future action.



I think you are referring to дойти? All my references say that Быть is imperfective.  Still, I take your point that I mistakenly put the sentence into future tense.



Sobakus said:


> Note the "almost arrive" part which sounds weird (почти shouldn't be used here). You have to put the verb "дойти" in the past tense and replace the modal verb "должен" with some adverb of probability. You variants in present basically mean the same, but still.
> 
> - Он сейчас, наверное, уже почти дошёл.
> - Он сейчас, должно быть, уже почти дошёл.
> = He must have almost arrived now.





Sobakus said:


> Должен был can be used as well, but only without the probability adverbs, it can also be used to express your discontent of someone not showing up in time:
> - Он должен был уже прийти к этому времени.
> - He ought to have arrived by now.



- Он сейчас, должно/должен быть, уже почти дошёл.
- He must be almost there now. (He must have almost arrived now.)
Should that be должно, or должен, to match your further example.

I looked up должно [быть]. Определения:
 должно - must (definitely act)
должно быть - should, ought to (possibly/probably act)

- Он должен был уже дойти к этому времени.
?? not sure how this expresses annoyance - is it the change in tense?
from: должен быть уже дошёл - probably arrived
to: должен был уже дойти - *ought* to have arrived

In English, there is no particular change of wording, necessarily. "He should (/ought to) have arrived by now" can mean anything from a calm statement to being quite annoyed/angry, or even anxious, just by using tone of voice and body language.


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## Sobakus

eni8ma said:


> I think you are referring to дойти? All my references say that Быть is imperfective.  Still, I take your point that I mistakenly put the sentence into future tense.


Err, the verbs that don't have the present tense are perfective, right? Then быть is perfective(буду, будем etc) by itself, if we don't take есть into account.


> - Он сейчас, должно/должен быть, уже почти дошёл.
> - He must be almost there now. (He must have almost arrived now.)
> Should that be должно, or должен, to match your further example.[/COLOR]


The subject of должно here is implied in Russian - (оно) должно быть, explicit in English (it must be). It's an impersonal construcion. When it agrees for person, it becomes a modal verb.



> I looked up должно [быть]. Определения:
> до́лжно - must (definitely act)
> должно́ быть - should, ought to (possibly/probably act)


Note the stress marks. До́лжно is a pre-revolutionary expression that isn't used much nowadays, it sounds pompous:
- Вам должно доложить государю немедленно.
- You ought to report the matter to the King at once. (I hope this sounds pompous enough)


> - Он должен был уже дойти к этому времени.
> ?? not sure how this expresses annoyance - is it the change in tense?
> from: должно быть, уже дошёл - probably arrived
> to: должен был уже дойти - *ought* to have arrived


You automatically express annoyance that someone is late by mentioning them while they still haven't come. In other cases there's no annoyance.



> In English, there is no particular change of wording, necessarily. "He should (/ought to) have arrived by now" can mean anything from a calm statement to being quite annoyed/angry, or even anxious, just by using tone of voice and body language.


In Russian it's the same, it's just that by using past tense you stress that something should've happened already, and by using present(referring to future in Russian) you express a hope for something to happen. Naturally the latter sounds milder.


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## eni8ma

Sobakus said:


> Err, the verbs that don't have a present tense are perfective, right? Then быть is perfective(буду, будем etc) by itself, if we don't take есть into account.


I see your point - although есть is the present tense, and my dictionary and other references all say imperfective.

Still thanks for bringing it to my attention - I had forgotten that буду, будем is future.



Sobakus said:


> The subject of должно here is implied in Russian - (оно) должно быть, explicit in English (it must be). It's an impersonal construction. When it agrees for person, it becomes a modal verb.


Спасибо, I had wondered about that, but still learning the construction.


Sobakus said:


> Note the stress mark. До́лжно is a pre-revolutionary expression that isn't used much nowadays, it sounds pompous.


Oops - think I copied the masculine form then changed the end to о  Must be careful of that.


Sobakus said:


> In Russian it's the same, it's just that by using past tense you stress that something should've happened already, and by using present(referring to future in Russian) you express a hope for something to happen. Naturally the latter sounds milder.


Спасибо ещё раз - теперь я понимаю


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