# Mexican/Spanish Language



## pacificblue

OK so I know this is really ignorant of me but I am trying to understand ...

Is Mexican a language, at all, or do Mexicans speak Spanish ?

I know how dumb it sounds, but some people have responded to my posts saying "In Mexico we would say" and it just made me think, if there is a seperate language.

Ugh    ...


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## MarcB

Mexico Speaks Spanish of course. Probably they wish to say this is how we say a certain expression in Mexico which may or may not be the same as in Spain and other LA countries. It would be the same as if you said this is how we say X in NZ. It may be the same or different in other English speaking countries. Even if it is different from what is said elsewhere we would still say NZ speaks English.


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## pacificblue

Thank you for not taking the piss out of me and just explaining things ...


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## diegodbs

I don't know about NZ English, but think about British English and American English, that's more or less the difference between Spanish from Spain and Spanish from Mexico or other American countries.


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## Yeu

We speak Spanish or "Castellano", when we say we speak "Mexican" is to say we use mexican slangs (there aren´t the same the slangs from the north, center (capital) or the south of Mexico).

I live in Chile and right now I'm learning chilean, I need it to speak with my new friends, to make jokes, to understand some tv shows, the first months was difficult for that reason.

Example: Tener pena- Mexico: is to be ashamed. Chile: is to be sad.


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## fenixpollo

Spanish is the language spoken by most Mexicans and most Chileans.  There are Chilean and Mexican dialects of Spanish, but they are not distinct languages.





			
				Yeu said:
			
		

> We speak Spanish or "Castellano", when we say we speak "Mexican" is to say we use Mexican slangs .


 In English, please don't ever say that someone "speaks Mexican."  Mexican is a nationality, not a language.   When President Bush said that he would respond to a question...


			
				Shrub said:
			
		

> Neither in French, nor in English, nor in Mexican.


...he was only showing his abject ignorance.


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## Gustavoang

Hi.

You ask a good question, IMO... It's not an ignorants' question at all.


*Mexican Castilian* (or Mexican for short) is a dialect of the *Castilian Language*. So, *Castilian* is the language of the *Mexican Dialect*.
*Castilian* is a dialect of the *Latin Language*. So, *Latin* is the language of the *Castilian Dialect*.

On the other hand:

*U.S. English* is a dialect of the *English Language*. So, *English* is the language of the *U.S. English Dialect*.
*English* is a dialect of the *Germanic Language*. So, *Germanic* is the language of the *English Dialect*.

And so on...

It's something like this: Gustavo is *son* of Carlos, then Carlos is *parent* of Gustavo.

Child ~ Dialect
Parent ~ Language

So, yes: *Mexican (Castilian) is a language as well* and it has dialects. In addition, Mexicans (or the most of them) *do* speak Castilian.

I speak Venezuelan Castilian, or Venezuelan for short. Likewise, you can say that you speak Mexican.

Get it? It sounds a bit weird, right?


Mexican is a dialect.  
Mexican is a language.  
Castilian is a dialect.  
Castilian is a language. 
Andalusian is an Spanish Castilian dialect.  
Spanish Castilian is a Castilian dialect.  
Castilian is a Latin dialect. And so on... 
Gustavo is a son of Carlos and Carlos is son of Ramón and Ramón is son of Pedro... and so on. Thus, Pedro is the Ramón's father and Ramón is the Carlos' father and Carlos is Gustavo's father.  

You can be both parent and child, right? Well, so can Mexican Castilian.

I learnt this from a Castilian book of the Spanish C.O.U..

HTH.

Post Scriptum: This doesn't only apply in Castilian, but also in any language (even English).


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## lforestier

Gustavoang said:
			
		

> Hi.
> 
> You ask a good question, IMO... It's not an ignorants' question at all.
> 
> *Mexican Castilian* (or Mexican for short) is a dialect of the *Castilian Language*. So, *Castilian* is the language of the *Mexican Dialect*.
> *Castilian* is a dialect of the *Latin Language*. So, *Latin* is the language of the *Castilian Dialect*.
> On the other hand:
> 
> *U.S. English* is a dialect of the *English Language*. So, *English* is the language of the *U.S. English Dialect*.
> *English* is a dialect of the *Germanic Language*. So, *Germanic* is the language of the *English Dialect*.
> And so on...
> 
> It's something like this: Gustavo is *son* of Carlos, then Carlos is *parent* of Gustavo.
> 
> Child ~ Dialect
> Parent ~ Language
> 
> So, yes: *Mexican (Castilian) is a language as well* and it has dialects. In addition, Mexicans (or the most of them) *do* speak Castilian.
> 
> I speak Venezuelan Castilian, or Venezuelan for short. Likewise, you can say that you speak Mexican.
> 
> Get it? It sounds a bit weird, right?
> 
> Mexican is a dialect.
> Mexican is a language.
> Castilian is a dialect.
> Castilian is a language.
> Andalusian is an Spanish Castilian dialect.
> Spanish Castilian is a Castilian dialect.
> Castilian is a Latin dialect. And so on...
> Gustavo is a son of Carlos and Carlos is son of Ramón and Ramón is son of Pedro... and so on. Thus, Pedro is the Ramón's father and Ramón is the Carlos' father and Carlos is Gustavo's father.
> You can be both parent and child, right? Well, so can Mexican Castilian.
> 
> I learnt this from a Castilian book of the Spanish C.O.U..
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Post Scriptum: This doesn't only apply in Castilian, but also in any language (even English).


 
In my opinion, a dialect has to vary a lot from the language it's derived from. Mexican Spanish doesn't vary that much to be considered other than Spanish, which is the language that originally was know as Castillian, to distinguish it  from other dialects that were in use in the Iberian peninsula such as Galician. Not to be confused with other languages that are used in Spain such as Catalan and Basque. 

You do not speak Venezolano, you speak Spanish with a Venezuelan accent and use idioms and words native to your country. If I saw a Soap Opera from Venevision, I would have no trouble understanding it.

It's like saying that the people from the US speak a dialect of English. That would be incorrect. Now if you want to say what is spoken in Jamaica is a dialect of English, that is different since someone from England or NZ will have a little trouble understanding the local speech.


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## Gustavoang

Hi, Luis.


A *language* is the ideal way of coding a message, recognized by the people who speak it.
*Dialects* are languages derived from a parent language.




			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> In my opinion, a dialect has to vary a lot from the language it's derived from.


Not always.

Idists and Esperantists can hold a conversation, despite these are *two different languages* because Ido is a dialect of Esperanto.

Moreover, the Castilian spoken is Castille itself is considered a dialect as well.



			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> Mexican Spanish doesn't vary that much to be considered other than Spanish


I have never said that. In fact, Mexican Castilian is Castilian.




			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> You do not speak Venezolano



Of course I do: I speak Venezuelan Castilian, or Venezuelan for short.



			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> you speak Spanish with a Venezuelan accent and use idioms and words native to your country.


Right. That's another way to say that I speak the Venezuelan Dialect of Castilian.



			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> If I saw a Soap Opera from Venevision, I would have no trouble understanding it.


Sure.



			
				lforestier said:
			
		

> It's like saying that the people from the US speak a dialect of English. That would be incorrect. Now if you want to say what is spoken in Jamaica is a dialect of English, that is different since someone from England or NZ will have a little trouble understanding the local speech.


Indeed U.S. English is a dialect of English, as well as English is a dialect of Germanic.

Accorging to TFD, one of the meaning of dialect is "_A language considered as part of a larger family of languages or a linguistic branch. Not in scientific use: Spanish and French are Romance dialects_."

Anyway, this is not the first discussion on the subject: You'll find more in the wikipedia and terralingua.

Cheers.


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## Gustavoang

Just in case:

Even if Venezuelan (Castilian) was not a language, it's right to say "I speak Venezuelan" or "I speak Venezuelan Castilian" in order to specify the type of Castilian you speak.

"Venezuelan" might also be a shortening for "Venezuelan Castilian", as well as "America" might also be a shortening for "United States of America". The problem about these shortenings is that they lead to confusions, as if an Spaniard says "I speak Spanish"... Which Spanish Language or which Spanish dialect of Spanish? Catalan? Andalusian Castilian?... This is why I avoid using "Spanish" to refer to the language, I prefer "Castilian" instead.

Cheers.


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## fenixpollo

Gustavo, I just want to point out that when one is speaking English it is incorrect to refer to regional variations of a language as separate languages. This is true regardless of where a person stands on the _dialect vs. language_ debate.  I agree that one can call the Venezuelan dialect/language "Venezuelan Spanish", but it isn't correct to call it "Venezuelan". This is not a form of shorthand or an abbreviation. It just sounds wrong.


> Indeed U.S. English is a dialect of English, as well as English is a dialect of Germanic.


Yes, US English is a dialect of English, and British English is a dialect of English. However, there is no such language as Germanic. There is a family of languages called _Germanic languages_, and English is considered to be descended, in large part, from various Germanic languages.


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## maxiogee

MarcB said:
			
		

> Mexico Speaks Spanish of course.



a) Why "of course"?
b) Has there ever been one language spoken throughout what it now Mexico?


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## Gustavoang

Hi, fenixpollo.



			
				fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Gustavo, I just want to point out that when one is speaking English it is incorrect to refer to regional variations of a language as separate languages. This is true regardless of where a person stands on the _dialect vs. language_ debate.  I agree that one can call the Venezuelan dialect/language "Venezuelan Spanish", but it isn't correct to call it "Venezuelan". This is not a form of shorthand or an abbreviation. It just sounds wrong.



What you say doesn't only apply in English, but also in Castilian (and likely in other languages). There are many Castilian-native people that think the same you think and other English-native people that think the same I think.

I consider "Venezuelan" might also be a dialect/language, but I wouldn't use it because that's how a Venezuela-native person is often refered to as. It's unclear, both in Castilian and English.

Likewise, if I say "I'm American", I might be saying that I was born in the USA or in the American continent ("The Americas").

IMO, these shortenings have more than one meaning, but the most of people only knows one (or they forget about the other ones)... That's what makes them unclear.

If I say "I speak Venezuelan" in Castilian (_Yo hablo Venezolano_), people will think that I'm a uneducated person.



			
				fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Yes, US English is a dialect of English, and British English is a dialect of English. However, there is no such language as Germanic. There is a family of languages called _Germanic languages_, and English is considered to be descended, in large part, from various Germanic languages.


Ops, you're right  



			
				fenixpollo said:
			
		

> English is not a dialect of German, either.


Of course.

Cheers.


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## danielfranco

Just a small regional comment: I've never heard anyone before refer to Mexicans' language as "Castilian" in English. It has always been said that they/we speak "Spanish". And because of that generalization, often you will hear many Americans who haven't had the pleasure of meeting people from other places in the world refer to any Spanish-speaking person as "Spanish"...
My children used to ask me, "Is it true what my friends say, that we are Spanish?"
And I'd say, "Nope, not true... Youze kids is Americans and me be Mexican! Not nobody here be from Spain!!"


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## amelesperanza

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Spanish is the language spoken by most Mexicans and most Chileans.  There are Chilean and Mexican dialects of Spanish, but they are not distinct languages. In English, please don't ever say that someone "speaks Mexican."  Mexican is a nationality, not a language.   When President Bush said that he would respond to a question...
> ...he was only showing his abject ignorance.



And when his brother said that Spain is a Republic, he was just reinforcing that family abject ignorance


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## Yeu

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Spanish is the language spoken by most Mexicans and most Chileans. There are Chilean and Mexican dialects of Spanish, but they are not distinct languages. In English, please don't ever say that someone "speaks Mexican." Mexican is a nationality, not a language. When President Bush said that he would respond to a question...
> ...he was only showing his abject ignorance.


 
Mexico have dialects, that are before the Spanian came to Mexico, one of them is "the Yaqui dialect", my name is Yaqui by the way (From Sonora). These dialects don´t came from the Spanish.


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## MarcB

Yeu said:
			
		

> Mexico have dialects, that are before the Spanian came to Mexico, one of them is "the Yaqui dialect", my name is Yaqui by the way (From Sonora). These dialects don´t came from the Spanish.


 
In Mexico dialect is a misnomer. A dialect is an altered form of a main language. Yaqui is a separate language from Spanish.



			
				maxiogee said:
			
		

> a) Why "of course"?
> b) Has there ever been one language spoken throughout what it now Mexico?


 You make a good point! see Yeu's comments above.
Spanish is the official and most widely spoken language in Mexico.


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## Gustavoang

Hi, Daniel.



			
				danielfranco said:
			
		

> Just a small regional comment: I've never heard anyone before refer to Mexicans' language as "Castilian" in English. It has always been said that they/we speak "Spanish". And because of that generalization, often you will hear many Americans who haven't had the pleasure of meeting people from other places in the world refer to any Spanish-speaking person as "Spanish"...
> My children used to ask me, "Is it true what my friends say, that we are Spanish?"
> And I'd say, "Nope, not true... Youze kids is Americans and me be Mexican! Not nobody here be from Spain!!"



Castilian and Spanish are synonyms both in English and Castilian, but I prefer to call it Castilian.

Regards.


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## fenixpollo

Marc, the Mexican definition of "dialect" allows that separate languages with nothing in common can be called "dialects" rather than "languages". I think we need to just accept their use of the word in this case (because we have no other choice). 

Like you, I thought that MY definition of "language" was rock-solid and correct, but then I looked at Gustavo's wikipedia link above and realized what a slippery concept it is...  


			
				MarcB said:
			
		

> In Mexico dialect is a misnomer. A dialect is an altered form of a main language. Yaqui is a separate language from Spanish.


 To continue the Castillian/Spanish debate, you can contribute to one of the many threads on the subject, including these with lots of links in them from ILT, Laia and Lazarus, and this recent debate in Gen. Voc. where we discussed how to express "Castillian" in English..


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## Miguelillo 87

maxiogee said:
			
		

> a) Why "of course"?
> b) Has there ever been one language spoken throughout what it now Mexico?


The major language which was used after spanish conqueres arrived to Mexico was.-
Nahualt. talk by Aztecs
Also the Maya talk by mayans.
As a matter of fact these are the most spoken languages now a days sfter spanisdh in Mexico.
Nahualt, Maya and otomí obvously there're more but thesa are thr most important. the ones which survived to the "conquista"


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## fenixpollo

No, Tony, there was never one language spoken throughout what is now Mexico until the Spanish conquista.  As Miguel pointed out, each native nation spoke its own, unique language.

I still don't understand why this would warrant an "of course".

Miguel, ¿por qué "Nahua*lt*" en vez de _Nahua*tl*_?


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## Miguelillo 87

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Miguel, ¿por qué "Nahua*lt*" en vez de _Nahua*tl*_?


Es que a veces pronunciamos Nahua*l *pero creo que lo correcto es *Nahuatl*
*Es como tlaltelolco *muchos decimo Tl*at*elolco cuando lo correcto es Tl*alt*elolco


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## murena

Just to complicate the discussion a little, mexican is also a way to call the nahuatl language.

Juan habla mexicano, means that Juan speaks nahuatl, which is the original language of the mexicas or aztecs.

So going back to the original question, there is one instance where mexican language does not refer to spanish.


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## MarcB

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Marc, the Mexican definition of "dialect" allows that separate languages with nothing in common can be called "dialects" rather than "languages". I think we need to just accept their use of the word in this case (because we have no other choice).
> 
> Like you, I thought that MY definition of "language" was rock-solid and correct, but then I looked at Gustavo's wikipedia link above and realized what a slippery concept it is...  To continue the Castillian/Spanish debate, you can contribute to one of the many threads on the subject, including these with lots of links in them from ILT, Laia and Lazarus, and this recent debate in Gen. Voc. where we discussed how to express "Castillian" in English..


Dialect is an over used word which almost means nothing. The eastern Georgian dialect or western Georgian dialect of English ( to me accent)
In non European countries any language is a dialect related or not to another language. so my dialect is differnet from my brother or sister because we say some things differently. In that definition dialect has no meaning, since my brother and sister speak exactly as I do but there are stylistic differences. My dialect yesterday is different from my dialect today since I used different words today.


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## lforestier

The debate on what makes a dialect different than a language is interesting but going back to the original question, if you ask a Mexican if he speaks Mexican or if you ask a Venezuelan if he speaks Venezuelanese, you are going to sound uneducated. You can debate the dialect matter, but there is no question that the official language of Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina, Spain, etc. is the same and it is called Español or Spanish. 
At school in Puerto Rico, we start off by using a book called Cartilla Castellana or something to that effect. The fact that the Castillian dialect became the language of the Courts and royalties and was the dialect exported to the Americas made it the Spanish language. Even in Spain they call their language Español, knowing better than anyone else that there are other languages spoken in Spain. My great-grandfather's first language wasn't Spanish but Catalunyan (catalan) and he was from Spain.
So just as I can't say I speak the American language, I can't say there is a Mexican language. 
sidenote: In Puerto Rico we translate "that person doesn't speak Spanish" as "Esa persona no habla en cristiano"


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## Aruba-chan

According to my teacher of Linguistics in the university, Spanish is the language and the rest of names are geographical dialects (Spanish from Spain, Mexican, Chilean, Argentine...) although there are people of another Spanish speaking countries that would like that their nationality (Mexican, Chilean, Argentinian...) became the name of their language as well. This is a history problem, not linguistic: it is called Spanish because when people from ancient Mexico, Chile, Argentina... learnt that language, this belonged to people who came from Spain.
It happens nearly the same in Catalan: there are people from Valencia and Islas Baleares who say that their language is not Catalan, but valenciano, mallorquín, menorquín... what's more, they think they are different languages because of patriotic reasons. I know it's unfair that Catalan was chosen to refer to the language that is spoken in Catalonia, Valencia and Islas Baleares (maybe because Catalonia had more political power in that period) but it is this way and we have to accept it (if politicians asked linguists, they would stop saying stupid things and argued about this issue, but they don't want ask to professionals, as always).


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## badgrammar

Great discussion, so obviously it was NOT a stupid question !

I think it is similar to how here in France, many people (obviously not those who have a good grasp of English) have asked me if I speak "American".  I tell them that I speak English, but am from the U.S.... what changes from BE (or NZ English, etc.) is the accent, the spelling and the colloquial use.  

They will then ask if I therefore understand and can communicate with BE speakers.   .  It is kind of amusing that they imagine such a big difference, but hey! If you don't know, you ask, then you do know, right?

I guess it's the same as French and Quebecois French, Portugese and Brazilian portugese, they are the same language in different colors.

FWIW, no one would ever say "I speak Mexican" except in a joking or in a pejorative way.


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## Yeu

badgrammar said:
			
		

> Great discussion, so obviously it was NOT a stupid question !
> 
> I think it is similar to how here in France, many people (obviously not those who have a good grasp of English) have asked me if I speak "American". I tell them that I speak English, but am from the U.S.... what changes from BE (or NZ English, etc.) is the accent, the spelling and the colloquial use.
> 
> They will then ask if I therefore understand and can communicate with BE speakers.  . It is kind of amusing that they imagine such a big difference, but hey! If you don't know, you ask, then you do know, right?
> 
> I guess it's the same as French and Quebecois French, Portugese and Brazilian portugese, they are the same language in different colors.
> 
> FWIW, no one would ever say "I speak Mexican" except in a joking or in a pejorative way.


 
I like you answer Badgrammar.

We have the same grammar rules from Spanish, in Mexico, Chile, Spain. I study on line my master degree in the Universidad Politecnica de Madrid, with student from all Latinamerica, and we never have problems with the language. 
Last month a friend from Mexico, ask me if I went to the school to learn Chilean  so I explained to her, that is "Spanish" but with different accent, slangs. The same happens with English in EE.UU, is different in New York, Luissiana, California, is English and we don´t say is Californian.


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## Yuribear

Hi Miguelillo, I guess it really depends on where were you located at that time!! Anyway, here is a link that will give all of you an idea of how many languages and dialects are spoken in Mexico, besides Spanish. 

It must be added that there are some areas where many of the indigenous people do not speak any Spanish, like some of the Nahuas, Tarahumaras, Tzotziles, etc.

For many years their schooling was done in Spanish, until somebody with brains in the government realized that they were destroying our heritage. Now there are areas (like in the State of Michoacán and in the Yucatán peninsula) where you can hear radio stations in their native languages.


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## Miguelillo 87

Yuribear said:
			
		

> For many years their schooling was done in Spanish, until somebody with brains in the government realized that they were destroying our heritage. Now there are areas (like in the State of Michoacán and in the Yucatán peninsula) where you can hear radio stations in their native languages.


That's wonderful, I really believe tht we have to take care our heritage. 
As I said on past threads I will be willing to learn Nahuatl or nother ingegean language.


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## clap_riddle

I'm from Mexico city.

In Mexico We speak Spanish (that's for sure).
That means that we completly understand what Octavio Paz writes (Mexico), as well as Fernando Savater (Spain), Gabriel García Márquez (Colombia)... They all write in Spanish, and all Latin America and Spain can read their books without problems. There might be expression -as we all know- that are difficult to understand, but most of the times you get them by context.
The reality is that In Latin America we make certain jokes. When a Mexican meets a Puerto Rican, we say: "Hey, you speak Puerto Rican... You speak so fast, you are so "vowel"" but the poit is that at the end we are using exaclty the same language.

If you can speak Spanih I recommend a book written by Antonio Alatorre "historia del español" (History of the Spanish language).


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## loladamore

I would say that in Mexico, most people speak *Mexican Spanish*, which is a variety of Spanish.  I think *variety* is a useful term, as it allows us to distinguish between *standardized varieties*, _*regional varieties*_, _*mixed varieties*_, etc., without being ambiguous or judgemental. _*Dialect*_, on the other hand, for some means a geographical variety, but has a pejorative connotation of being an inferior variety for others. 

There are many varieties of Spanish spoken in the world just as there are varieties of English. Several varieties of Spanish are spoken in Mexico, a standardized Mexican variety or _norma culta_ being the main, official one. There is a Mexican norm that differs from Iberian varieties, and it is distinguishable from other Latin American norms, but it is true that beyond regional vocabulary, it differs only in minor ways, and as Rosenblat put it so beautifully:  ‘Por encima de ese fondo común las divergencias son sólo pequeñas ondas en la superficie de un océano inmenso’.


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## Bettie

lforestier said:
			
		

> The debate on what makes a dialect different than a language is interesting but going back to the original question, *if you ask a Mexican if he speaks Mexican or if you ask a Venezuelan if he speaks Venezuelanese, you are going to sound uneducated.* You can debate the dialect matter, but there is no question that the official language of Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina, Spain, etc. is the same and it is called Español or Spanish.


 
Yeah, that's true, not that long a guy asked me if I could teach him Mexican  And I couldn't resist and told him, "you know, I can teach you Spanish if you want".


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