# Singular / Plural



## big sea

Hello,

Please translate the following so I can understand the number in turkish better.

a car (I know bir araba)
the car (I know araba)

cars (I think araba)
the cars (I think arabalar)

two cars (I know iki araba)
the two cars (I think iki arabalar)

Please also mention whether a form sound strange. I think iki arabalar is highly strange.

Instant of "ben iki araba gördüm. Iki Arabalar güzel." you just say "arabalar".


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## FlyingBird

Merhaba 

i am not sure what you mean cause my english is not good but i will try to answer you.
There is no such things in turkish like a car/the car when its used alone 

Araba=car
Arabalar=cars
two cars=iki araba 

iki araba gördüm=i saw two cars
Arabayı gördüm (question is 'hangi arabayı gördün') 
bir araba gördüm (question is 'ne gördün')

its very simple


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## Black4blue

Being definite/indefinite doesn't affect being singular/plural.

We never use plural after a number. So _"iki arabalar"_ is always wrong.

_cars *arabalar*
the cars *arabalar*

two cars *iki araba*
the two cars* iki araba*_


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## big sea

Are you sure? I always read that the basic form (Singular) is used for an individual or a group which is abstract?

Like:
çocuğun var mı? - Do you have children?
Evet, çocuklarım var. Yes, I have children.

So çocuk is definite Singular or indefinite Plural. Bir çocuk is indefinite Singular. And çocuklar is definite Plural. Don t you think so.

But I do not understand the situation with numbers.
So iki araba is definite Plural or indefinite Plural.

I also read that number + ler is used when the expression is a name. Like beş evler - a part of Ankara


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## big sea

Merhaba

I mean to be definite or indefinite.

Like "kitabın var mı" means "do you have THE book.".
"bir kitabın var mı" means "fo you have A book."

"kitabın var mı" can also mean "Do you have BOOKS".
"kitapların var mı" means "Do you have THE BOOKS".

So
kitap means "the book" not "a book".
bir kitap means "a book" not "the book".

Like you said...
"Bir adam bana geliyor (ne gidiyor-a man). Adam evim görecek. (Hangi adam görecek"-the man).

"Adam bana gidiyor (ne gidiyor-men). Adamlar evim görecek (hangi adam-the men).

A man is bir adam
the man is adam
men is adam
the men is adamlar

Is this correct?


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## Rallino

No, not really. There is nothing that shows the definiteness when the word is the subject. (There is one way when it's the object).

Kitap = A book / The book / Books (rarely)
Bir kitap = A book
Kitaplar = Books / The books


> Like "kitabın var mı" means "do you have THE book.".


Not necessarily. It can be definite or indefinite according to the context.
So, _Kitabın var mı? _might very well be used in the sense of _Bir kitabın var mı? _as well.

We can paraphrase it to be clearer: _Kitap sende mi? _(Is the book with you?), but this is another topic.



> Bir adam bana geliyor (ne kim gidiyor-a man). Adam evim evimi görecek.


In this case, yes. But this is not a rule. You don't necessarily see a _bir_ in front of every indefinite word.



> Adam bana gidiyor (ne gidiyor-men). Adamlar evim görecek (hangi adam-the men).


This is impossible. You have to use the plural, or at least, some sort of plural marker:
Adamlar bana geliyor. Adamlar evimi görecek. (→ or better just: _Evimi görecekler._) ← Here, though, _adamlar_ rather means _the men_.
Birkaç adam bana geliyor. Adamlar evimi görecek. (→ or better just: _Evimi görecekler._)

However, I don't want you to get the wrong idea that every plural is automatically definite. Observe:
_Two people walk in an unknown room:_
- Şu masada ne var? (_What's on that table?)_
- Masada sadece kitaplar var, başka bir şey yok. _(On the table, there are only books, nothing else.)

_


> I also read that number + ler is used when the expression is a name. Like beş evler - a part of Ankara


Don't pay attention to the city/region/town names. They hardly ever make any sense. We say _Beşevler_ but _Yeditepe, _for example.



> çocuğun var mı? - Do you have children?
> Evet, çocuklarım var. Yes, I have children.


In some cases like this, both singular and plural are fine: _Çocuğun var mı? / Çocukların var mı?_
It's the same in every language: _Do you have a child? / Do you have children?

_


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## FlyingBird

big sea said:


> A man is bir adam
> the man is adam
> men is adam
> the men is adamlar
> Is this correct?


bir=one
bir adam=one man
adam=man
adamlar=men
bir adam gördüm=i saw one man (you never saw him before)
adamı gördüm= (you know him)


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## Gemmenita

Merhaba big sea,

Well... What you call definite/indefinite or singular/plural it is not something which could be placed in a fixe _çerçeve_ and this is the sentence which 
really decides the translation of each one.

for example when you say 'kitap/ araba', they are by themselves just 'book/ car ' and this is the context and their grammatical function which decides to translate them  as 'a book/ a car' or 'the book/ the car' or 'book/cars':

Ne yapıyorsun? Kitap okuyorum. ( I am reading a book)
Ne yapıyosun? kitap satıyorum. ( I am selling books) Can't say 'kitaplar satıyorum' but in translation must say 'books'. (generality)

Araba kullanıyorum. = I am driving a car.
Araba satıyorum. = I sell cars.

As you see the same word (Kitap/araba) in both sentences are without 'bir' and 'lar' but in translations we have translated with 'a' and '-s'.


Here, I have tried to translate and explain your own examples, hope will help you ...



big sea said:


> Hello,
> (...)
> a car (I know bir araba) :  I think a better translation for 'bir araba' is 'one car' [emphasis on the number], otherwise to say 'a car' you can just say 'araba' (as in my examples above)
> the car (I know araba) Correct: Depending on the context.
> 
> cars (I think araba)  cars= arabalar but depending on the context (as my examples above) you can translate araba (in general meaning) as 'cars'.
> the cars (I think arabalar) Correct, however better to say: arabalar= cars (without 'the')
> 
> two cars (I know iki araba)the two cars (I think iki arabalar)  = (again) iki araba (without lar)
> 
> Please also mention whether a form sound strange. I think iki arabalar is highly strange.
> 
> Instant of "ben iki araba gördüm. Iki Arabalar güzel." you just say "arabalar". Correct. But if you want to emphasize on the number (iki) It's usually said: İkisi de güzel.





big sea said:


> (...)
> Like:
> çocuğun var mı? - Do you have children? A better translation would be= Do you have any child? any children? (generality)
> Evet, çocuklarım var. Yes, I have children. If you want to insist on the fact that you have _more than a child,_ 'çocuklarım var' is correct, however still in reply to this question you can again say: Evet, çocuğum var. (With the same translation that : I have children, but here 'children' is not used in a real plural meaning but in 'generality' meaning.)
> 
> So çocuk is definite Singular or indefinite Plural. Bir çocuk is indefinite Singular. And çocuklar is definite Plural. Don t you think so.
> 
> But I do not understand the situation with numbers.
> So iki araba is definite Plural or indefinite Plural.
> 
> I also read that number + ler is used when the expression is a name. Like beş evler - a part of Ankara





big sea said:


> Merhaba
> 
> I mean to be definite or indefinite.
> 
> Like "kitabın var mı" means "do you have THE book.". = Do you have any book? Do you have a book?
> "bir kitabın var mı" means "fo you have A book." Do you have one book? or still Do you have a (=one) book? (but emphasis is on the number of book not because of definite or indefinite.)
> 
> "kitabın var mı" can also mean "Do you have BOOKS". If by books you mean generaliy as 'any book', yes your translation is correct (as I said above)
> "kitapların var mı" means "Do you have THE BOOKS". Actually when we are asking in general about having or not having any book we don't ask in plural form 'Kitapların' but rather singular form, however if you are asking someone in general to know whether he has books (any book) or not, again you should say 'Do you have books?' (without 'the' ) but  in another context where you have already talked of many book*s* and you know to which books you are refering, it would be correct with 'the' because you already know of which book*s* you are talking. Otherwise you should still translate: Do you have books?
> 
> kitap means "the book" not "a book". Neither the book nor a book. Kitap means _sadece '_book'.
> bir kitap means "a book" not "the book". Yes, but rather ' *one *book'. (because if you say it means '*a* book' vs 'the book', we will again have definite/indefinite difference which can be used with _sadece_ 'kitap' and no need to 'bir')
> 
> Like you said...
> "Bir adam bana geliyor (ne gidiyor-a man). Adam evim*i* görecek. (Hangi adam görecek"-the man).Yes, correct: *the* man because you have talked about him in the previous sentence.
> 
> "Adam*lar* bana gidiyor (ne gidiyor-men). Adamlar evim*i* görecek (hangi adam-the men). Yes, correct: *the* men because you have talked about him in the previous sentence.
> 
> A man is bir adam (or 'one man') Correct.
> the man is adam Correct (according the context)
> men is adam No, men is adamlar.
> the men is adamlar Correct (according the context)
> 
> Is this correct?




İyi günler ve İyi çalışmalar!



ps. Oops! I was late and #6 (Rallino) and #7 (FlyingBird) were faster than me, I haven't read them yet, so it may be some points in common!


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## big sea

I think I have understood the topic due to your good explanation. It would be kind of you if you correct my summary:

Summary:
araba means "a car" or "the car" (depending on context).
Like "arabadayım. Arabanın kapısı açtım." means "I am in A car. I opened the door of THE car.

arabalar means "cars" and "the cars" (again context)
Like "arabalar görüyorum. Arabalar güzel" means "I see cars. The cars are beautiful."

If you talk about the noun in general you have to use the Singular.
Like (when thr noun is the direct object)
@"Araba satıyorum" means "I sell cars (in general but maybe not now)" or "I sell a car".
@"Arabaları satıyorum" means JUST "I sell the cars."
@"Arabayı satıyorum" means "I sell the car".
@"Arabalar satıyorum" means "I sell some cars at the moment (like when I have a coustumer who wants to buy 3 cars".

Or like (when the noun is not a direct object)
@"Adam evimde" means "the man is in my house", "a man is in my house" or "men are in general in my house"
@"Adamlar evimde"  means "the men are in my house" or "men are in my home".

Note the slight difference. "Adam evimde" can mean "men are (in general, but maybe not at the moment) in my house. "Adamlar evimde" means "men are (at the moment) in my house."


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## Rallino

big sea said:


> […]
> 
> Or like (when the noun is not a direct object)
> @"Adam evimde" means "the man is in my house", "a man is in my house" More like, _the man is in my house_, for this context, or "men are in general in my house" (Adam is singular, it cannot mean _men_.)
> @"Adamlar evimde"  means "the men are in my house" or "men are in my home".
> 
> Note the slight difference. "Adam evimde" can mean "men are The man is (in general, but maybe not at the moment) in my house. "Adamlar evimde" means "men are (at the moment) in my house."


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## Gemmenita

(#9) Aferin sana! Perfect.

Just some small corrections and points:



> Like "arabadayım. Arabanın kapısı*nı* açtım." means "I am in A car. I opened the door of THE car.





> Like "arabalar görüyorum. Arabalar güzel" means "I see cars. The cars are beautiful."



The translation of both is correct just to remind that 'arabalar görüyorum' seems at first sight incomplete and should be for example: _Uzaklarda _arabalar görüyorum, and gibi...



> @"Araba satıyorum" means "I sell cars" or "I sell *a* car".



It is better to say only 'I sell _cars_' because _when talking in general_ we sell 'cars' not '*a* car'. 'I sell *a* car', would be more suitable for '*Bir* araba satıyorum' [ here 'a car' in the meaning of 'one car']



> @"Arabalar satıyorum" means JUST "I sell *the* cars."



Can be correct_ regarding the context_. Otherwise at first sight it sounds incomplete and strange ! or should be rather: Arabayi satıyorum or Arabaları satıyorum.
(because when you say in translation 'I sell *the* cars' means they are _known cars_ which are discussed in previous sentences in the context.


Başarılar!


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## FlyingBird

it is similar like in bosnian language. Also in bosnian there is no* a* car,* the *car.
in bosnian auto mean car, auti mean cars.
if you understand bosnian than its easy to understand 

kuca-singular (house)
kuce-plural (houses)

in turkish it is same but you add lar/ler suffixes for plural.


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## big sea

So adam is "a man" or "the man"
And "adamlar" is "men" or "the men"
And "iki adam" is "two men" or "the two men"

And in which situation does "adam" have the meaning of plural?

PS: Thanks for everybody for taking the time to explain me this topic.


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## Rallino

I can't really use _adam_ in a sentence which would be translated as _men_ in English.

However, there are certain constructions that allow a singular noun in Turkish whereas plural in English, such as the verb "sevmek": _Domates severim_. - I like tomatoes.
These constructions are best learnt one by one. So, slow and steady wins the race. Take your time with them.


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## big sea

Ok thank you very much

Thanks for everybody


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