# せっかくの も



## Kenshiromusou

Yo, friends. Reading a manga, I remembered a old question.
I came across the following phrase:
*せっかく*の鎧もきる*ものが*おまえ*では*役立たない

I don't know if there is some pattern せっかくーものが, but this *では *looks that *あなたではできない *(when particle limits capacity)*.
Well, assuming that there is not a せっかくーものが pattern, what does phrase say?*
To wear this so expected protection also is useless for you/ this protection [*with* you using it] is useless?
Thank you very much in advance?


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## Cowrie

Yo Kenshiro,


Kenshiromusou said:


> *せっかく*の鎧もきる*ものが*おまえ*では*役立たない


Your sentence should be segmented as follows:
せっかくの鎧も/きるものがおまえでは/役立たない

I think せっかくのNも [condition]では[phrase meaning "meaningless"] can be called "a pattern".
せっかくの能力も使わないのでは無いのと同じである
せっかくの金もしまい込んだままでは持ち腐れである
The rare/valuable quality of N will be meaningless under the condition(s).

せっかくの鎧も        even a/the/this valuable armor
（それを）着るものがおまえでは    if worn by you (if the one who wears it is you)
役立たない        will/would be useless


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Now I think ＃２ would be the correct interpretation.
But I thought of it as:
*せっかく*の鎧も切る物*が、*おまえ*では*役立たない
＝せっかく鎧も切ることができる剣であるのに、おまえではそれを使いこなせない。宝の持ち腐れである。
＝Although the sword is excellent enough to cut armors, you cannot use it effectively.
＝The sword is too excellent for you to use effectively. You're not capable enough to use it.

I think my interpretation is also grammatically possible.

せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえでは役立たない.
=The armor is excellent, but it could not be helpful because you're too weak.
=Your weakness would ruin the excellence of the armor.


The original Japanese should have written in kanji, 着る・者 or 切る・物, in order to avoid the ambiguity.


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## Flaminius

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> I think my interpretation is also grammatically possible.


Ah, it's like the polysemy of "Time flies like an arrow" or the five meanings of 頭が赤い魚を食べる猫.  Understanding a sentence involves a few more things than a simply syntactic parser.  



SoLaTiDoberman said:


> The original Japanese should have written in kanji, 着る・者 or 切る・物, in order to avoid the ambiguity.


The OP isn't wondering about this ambiguity.

The uselessness of せっかくの鎧 does not consist in its own defects but in those of the wearer.  Perhaps this person is a coward, and not keen on fighting (= using the armour)?


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## Kenshiromusou

My friends, thank you very much.
My question about your answers is about this では. It looks like
せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえ*では*役立たない.
せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえである。だから、役立たない.
I saw before the combination of these particles before capacity: 
おまえ*では*できない = おまえである。たから、できない  ?
Thank you all once more.


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## graysesame

about this では, there is a simple explanation you may want to have a look at.

【N3文法】〜ては、〜（の）では【〜たら】 | ちよさんぽ

おまえでは(この鎧は)役立たない
if it is you, the armor is useless/cannot exert its full capacity.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Kenshiromusou said:


> My friends, thank you very much.
> My question about your answers is about this では. It looks like
> せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえ*では*役立たない.
> せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえである。だから、役立たない.
> I saw before the combination of these particles before capacity:
> おまえ*では*できない = おまえである。たから、できない  ?
> Thank you all once more.


Yes, kind of.
You may think in that way if it helps you understand it. Although the sentence itself is an assumptive sentence.

おまえ*では*できない =おまえであれば、できない＝おまえであったのなら、できない
On the premise that the subject is you, the subject cannot do it.

せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえ*では*役立たない.＝せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえ*であれば、*役立たない.
＝せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえ*であったなら*役立たない.
On the premise that you wear that awesome armor, it won't work.

_*It might be better for you to think:

おまえではできない = おまえであると仮定する。その場合は、できない。
*_
*せっかくの鎧も、着る者がおまえであると仮定しよう。その場合は、役立たない。*


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## Flaminius

Kenshiromusou said:


> だから、役立たない.


Yes, this is what is intended.  The *form* だから sounds as if wearer being "you" is the only possible reason for 鎧 to be 役立たない.  Employing A -> B under the assumption A means B (modus ponens).


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## Kenshiromusou

友達  どうもありがとうございました。


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## Katzuhiko Minohara

ケンシロウさんは、*ポルトガル語*が話せるので

せっかくの、折角の、
so worthwile, so worthy
so valuable, so valued,
*tão valioso*


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## Kenshiromusou

友達  どうもありがとうございました


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## gengo

Kenshiromusou said:


> *せっかく*の鎧もきる*ものが*おまえ*では*役立たない



Liberal translation:  Even the best armor would be wasted if worn by you.

Much more literally, the せっかくの鎧も part means something like "even the armor [you] go to the trouble of [wearing]."


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