# Urdu: Bereavement condolences



## teaboy

What are the most common ways to express condolences, I mean beyond _bahut afsos hai_ or _mujhe afsos hai?  

_What are some of the standard Islamic expressions to say when you learn of someone's death?  Like in English, religious people might say something like "May God have mercy on his soul", or "S/he is in a better place now," that kind of thing.


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## panjabigator

> What are some of the standard Islamic expressions to say when you learn of someone's death? Like in English, religious people might say something like "May God have mercy on his soul", or "S/he is in a better place now," that kind of thing.


There is an arabic saying انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون which means something like "from God we come and to Him we return."  I'll leave it to a more informed forero to give a better translation.  

I am not good with condolences in any language, but <hamdardī> is sympathy.  Could you list some phrases in English so that we can produce an Urdu equivalent?


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## Faylasoof

As PG mentioned quite correctly (and his translation is good too!), this is the Quranic verse (Chapter 2, verse 156) that Muslims say (or are supposed to say) when they first hear of someone’s death:  

إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّآ إِلَيۡهِ رَٲجِعُونَ 

_To Allah we belong, and to Him is our return_.
Translator: Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Apart from this, we have several expressions in Urdu that go like this:

خدا ان كو غریق رحمت كرے
_xudaa un ko ghariiq-e-raHmat kare_

 خدا ان كو كروٹ كروٹ جنت دے
_xuda on ko karwaT karwaT jannat de_

اللّہ ان پر گلہاے غفران برسائے اور انھے كروٹ كروٹ جنت نصيب ہو
_Allah un par gulhaa-e-ghufraan barsaa'e aur unhe karwaT karwaT naSiib ho_

اللہ انھے اپنے جوار رحمت میں جگہ عطا فرمائے
_Allah unhe apne jawaar-e-raHmat mei.n jagah 3Taa farmaa’e_

خدا ان كے سب گناہ معاف كرے اور انھے جنت بخشے
_xudaa on ke sab gunaah ma3aaf kare aur unhe jannat baxshe

_... and a more!_
_


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## akak

Thanks Faylasoof, I hadn't heard many of those. One I remember is something like "Allah unhe jannat mein aala maqaam ata farmayein"


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## Faylasoof

akak said:


> Thanks Faylasoof, I hadn't heard many of those. One I remember is something like "Allah unhe jannat mein aala maqaam ata farmaaye"



You are welcome! Yes, this one is also used!

All the ones I mention above are used by us (family & friends). Some you _might_ even find on the net. I haven't checked.

There are still more ways to express this feeling!


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## akak

Faylasoof said:


> You are welcome! Yes, this one is also used!
> 
> All the ones I mention above are used by us (family & friends). Some you _might_ even find on the net. I haven't checked.
> 
> There are still more ways to express this feeling!


 
I think I've mostly been able to sit quietly while my parents did the formal condolences, so some of them didn't stick with me -- usually we kids would head straight for a siparah. With family, condolences are much less formal.


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## teaboy

Thanks!  What about things one says to sympathize with the family members, like "May God give you strength in your time of need" etc?


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## teaboy

Can you explain the _*karwaT karwaT* _*part?*_
_


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## panjabigator

teaboy said:


> Can you explain the _*karwaT karwaT* _*part?*_
> _



Hmm, كروٹ: I use this word for tossing and turning.  Perhaps it's like "May God grant X heaven at every turn?"

FLS, really nice phrases there.  Hopefully, they'll never come in handy but it's good to know them nonetheless.


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## teaboy

And would خدا ان کو غریق رحمت  کرے۔  mean "May God drown him in mercy"?  Surely there is a more poetic rendering....
اللہ انہیں جّنت میں علا مقام  اطا فرماۓ "May Allah bestow upon him a high place in Heaven"?


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## teaboy

Another question, on funerals: When you go to somebody's house the day after a death, is that also called attending the_ janaazah_, or does that refer only to the actual procession to the graveyard (which women do not partake in)?  Is there another term for when women go to the house to _afsos karna_?  

_Ham un ke ghar/haaN afsos karne ja rahe haiN._
"We are going to their house to offer condolences."  ??


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## Cilquiestsuens

teaboy said:


> Another question, on funerals: When you go to somebody's house the day after a death, is that also called attending the_ janaazah_, or does that refer only to the actual procession to the graveyard (which women do not partake in)? Is there another term for when women go to the house to _afsos karna_?
> 
> _Ham un ke ghar/haaN afsos karne ja rahe haiN._
> "We are going to their house to offer condolences." ??


 
Janaza is from the moment you take the body from home to the funeral ground (janazgah). You then pray namaaz-e janaazah and then bury the body. After that janaza is over.
To offer condolences is as you say afsos karnaa, but the proper and formal expression for that is *izhaar e ta'ziyat*... (i6'haar e ta3ziyat)....


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> There is an arabic saying انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون which means something like "from God we come and to Him we return."


 
*Innaa lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji3oon*... is not an expression of condolences as such. This is the first word a Muslim is expected to say when he hears about someone's death. It is not restricted to death. It is also used when you incur a great loss.... (Example a friend of mine got recently his non-insured car stolen in front of him... inna lillaahi is the first thing he said....) 

I don't think there's a fixed set of condolences in Urdu, so you can use a number of expressions which sound good.... As Faylas mentioned a number of them which are really beautiful and quite formal. The most important thing is that you should mean them... Don't say a thing you don't feel....

*ham aap ke gham mein shariik hai.N* = _We share your pain_ is commonly heard.

_*allaah ta'ala us kii roo7 ko taskiin 'ata kare / farmaae*_...(or simply *de*) May Allah bestow peace upon his soul.

Another common things amongst Muslims is to which someone *jannat-ul firdaus*... (The Most Elevated Degree of Paradise) So you can take the above '_alaa muqaam_' sentence and replace _'alaa muqaam_' in it by *jannat-ul firdaus *or *jannat-e firdaus.*

It's good to wish also God's forgiveness (*maghfirat*) for anyone, even if he is not a known sinner. I've heard a lot simple sentences such as *Allaah us ke saath maghfirat ka maamlah (mu3aamilah) kare*. May God pardon him, or any other equivalent expression which are innumerable.


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## panjabigator

Thanks Cilqui for the informative post.  What does 'ata mean here?  I've seen it before.  Is 'ata karnaa to bestow?


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## teaboy

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Janaza is from the moment you take the body from home to the funeral ground (janazgah). You then pray namaaz-e janaazah and then bury the body. After that janaza is over.
> To offer condolences is as you say afsos karnaa, but the proper and formal expression for that is *izhaar e ta'ziyat*... (i6'haar e ta3ziyat)....



How do people normally use this expression _izhaar e ta'ziyat? Un ko izhaar e ta'ziyat dena? Un ke lie izhaar e ta'ziyat karna_?  

Is is a common expression? - I can only hear _afsos karna_ in my memory, but that may be because that's all that I understood.


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> Thanks Cilqui for the informative post. What does 'ata mean here? I've seen it before. Is 'ata karnaa to bestow?


 
You're welcome. I am sure Faylas can give you more details. I have given myself some more informal things I have heard. As for this word, you rightly guessed its meaning.

In Arabic *أعطی* (=he gave) means to give (degree IV of the root ع ط و ).

From the same root, (but it is not its verbal noun: *مصدر*) the word *عطاء* means gift, present.... so i Urdu *عطاء کرنا* means to bestow, to grant....


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## Cilquiestsuens

teaboy said:


> How do people normally use this expression _izhaar e ta'ziyat? Un ko izhaar e ta'ziyat dena? Un ke lie izhaar e ta'ziyat karna_?
> 
> Is is a common expression? - I can only hear _afsos karna_ in my memory, but that may be because that's all that I understood.


 
It would be used with *karna* (because it is basically izhaar), izhaar karna, to express....

But in more common speech, you could just say for instance *ham log ta'ziyat ke liye do-Dhai baje un ke ghar jaaenge*


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## teaboy

Thank you. 

At the _qul_, when people are sitting reading Qur'an and praying, what are those things they count?  _kajur_?  And the sheets on the floor - are they just called _chaadareN_?


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## panjabigator

Kajur?  Certainly not cashews, right?

Also, while we are on this janaazah subject, I've heard <uṭhnā> used before.  How are janaazahs performed verbally?


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## teaboy

And what is the correct response when people come for _ta'ziyat_?  Just _shukria_? Or is there some standard return blessing?

It is always such an unhappy and socially uncomfortable situation in any language. It is good to know the stock things to say.  Knowing the correct form helps people make it through.


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## teaboy

panjabigator said:


> Kajur?  Certainly not cashews, right?
> 
> Also, while we are on this janaazah subject, I've heard <uṭhnā> used before.  How are janaazahs performed verbally?



_Kajur_ are dates. (_kaaju_ are cashews. ) 
I came across this link for a description of janaazah customs: http://www.alkhidmat.no/artikler/ghusl.htm


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## panjabigator

teaboy said:


> _Kajur_ are dates. (_kaaju_ are cashews. )
> I came across this link for a description of janaazah customs: http://www.alkhidmat.no/artikler/ghusl.htm




Right right.  Well, I was thinking _mehve_ haha.  Perhaps I at least succeeded in lightening up the thread


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## BP.

teaboy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> At the _qul_, when people are sitting reading Qur'an and praying, what are those things they count?  _kajur_?  And the sheets on the floor - are they just called _chaadareN_?



Whether people count would be open to custom or culture as it is, but keeping count with the aid of date seeds-_khajuur ke biij_- is definitely a cultural throwback to earlier Abrahamic traditions. Luckily somebody discovered the recursivity of the procedure and invented the rosary. So don't be shocked if somewhere you find date seeds, pebbles etc and somewhere nothing at all.

The sheets on the floor are usually white and for this reason called _chaandnii_-lit. 'moonlight', but used as in 'moonlit'.


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## teaboy

_Chaandnii_!  Interesting. 

Yes, keeping count was what I meant.


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## teaboy

panjabigator said:


> Right right.  Well, I was thinking _mehve_ haha.  Perhaps I at least succeeded in lightening up the thread



Well, I came across a book called The Janaazah Made Easy.  I kid you not.  What's next - Janaazahs for Dummies?!


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## akak

Has anyone here heard the phrase "pursa dena" in the same meaning as "ta'ziyat"


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## panjabigator

teaboy said:


> Well, I came across a book called The Janaazah Made Easy.  I kid you not.  What's next - Janaazahs for Dummies?!



Idiots Guide? 

I'd probably buy it!  Good educational tool


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## akak

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Whether people count would be open to custom or culture as it is, but keeping count with the aid of date seeds-_khajuur ke biij_- is definitely a cultural throwback to earlier Abrahamic traditions. Luckily somebody discovered the recursivity of the procedure and invented the rosary. So don't be shocked if somewhere you find date seeds, pebbles etc and somewhere nothing at all.
> 
> The sheets on the floor are usually white and for this reason called _chaandnii_-lit. 'moonlight', but used as in 'moonlit'.


 
On several occasions, I've seen people counting chickpeas (chana).


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## Faylasoof

I see we have come a long way since I visited last!



teaboy said:


> Can you explain the *karwaT karwaT**part?*_
> _


 Yes, _karwaT_ is as PG said. There is a long explanation behind this use of _karwaT_ in the grave but it’ll take too long to explain!



teaboy said:


> And would خدا ان کو غریق رحمت کرے۔ mean "May God drown him in mercy"? Surely there is a more poetic rendering....
> اللہ انہیں جّنت میں علا مقام اطا فرماۓ "May Allah bestow upon him a high place in Heaven"?


 Yes, there is a better if not necessarily a more poetic way to translate this:

_May God immerse him / her in his mercy_ - the idea of an all encompassing mercy.

... and your translation of the second one is just fine.


teaboy said:


> Another question, on funerals: When you go to somebody's house the day after a death, is that also called attending the_ janaazah_, or does that refer only to the actual procession to the graveyard (which women do not partake in)? Is there another term for when women go to the house to _afsos karna_?
> 
> _Ham un ke ghar/haaN afsos karne ja rahe haiN._
> "We are going to their house to offer condolences." ??


 Traditionally this is has been the case! 

Apart from what Cilqui said (zhaar e ta'ziyat) , you can also just use the word_ ta3ziyat_:

_ham un ke ghar / haa.n ta3ziyat karne ja rahe hai.n_ 



akak said:


> Has anyone here heard the phrase "pursa dena" in the same meaning as "ta'ziyat"



Yes! Some people do use this but we use _ta3ziyat_ nearly all the time. Interestingly enough, in Urdu poetry "_pursaa  denaa_" is used often!


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## akak

Faylasoof said:


> Interestingly enough, in Urdu poetry "_pursaa denaa_" is used often!


 
I didn't know that, my grandmother usually used that phrase, and her father was a poet.


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## panjabigator

What does it mean?


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## teaboy

In Punjabi I once heard someone, whose uncle had just died, returning the condolences back, with something like "My God be merciful with all your dearly departed, too."  I am not sure if my perception of the remark was correct, because my Punjabi is not very good at all.  And it seemed odd, because the _afsos karnewali_ to whom the bereaved person said this, had not lost anyone recently.  Sounded like a retroactive blessing.  Am I completely off here?


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## eskandar

While I have no familiarity with Punjabi, the above response sounds very plausible to me because we use precisely the same standard response for condolences in Persian; when someone is offered condolences, the bereaved typically responds "may God forgive [the sins of] your dearly departed too". (And indeed many of the other Urdu phrases listed here closely resemble the wording of Persian condolences.) Sorry to revive an old thread!


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> In Punjabi I once heard someone, whose uncle had just died, returning the condolences back, with something like "My God be merciful with all your dearly departed, too."  I am not sure if my perception of the remark was correct, because my Punjabi is not very good at all.  And it seemed odd, because the _afsos karnewali_ to whom the bereaved person said this, had not lost anyone recently.  Sounded like a retroactive blessing.  Am I completely off here?




The "dearly departed ones" do not necessarily have to be of the recent past. They could be ALL the departed ones ever linked to that one person!


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