# fatHa, kasra, Damma, sukuun (collective name)



## seitt

Greetings,
 
This is actually a question about English and Arabic.
 
What do you call “fatha, kasra, Damma, sukūn etc.” as a collective whole? For instance, I asked someone to tell me the pronunciation of a “خلافة أموية” using “fatha, kasra, Damma, sukūn etc.” and AndyRoo kindly gave me the pronunciation as follows: خِلافَة أُمَوِيّة.
 
Since I shall probably be asking questions of this kind again, what are the correct Arabic and English terms for “fatha, kasra, Damma, sukūn etc.”?
 
I think we may have to be careful to distinguish these from diacritics i.e. the points that distinguish letters from one another such as sin and shin.
 
All the best, and many thanks,

Simon


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## AndyRoo

seitt said:


> Since I shall probably be asking questions of this kind again, what are the correct Arabic and English terms for “fatha, kasra, Damma, sukūn etc.”?


 
They're just called "vowels". In Arabic = حَرَكات


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## hanthalah

I agree with what Andy wrote.
However it is noteworthy that the الحركات are considered to be "shorter" vowels, when compared to the "longer" vowels called  أحرف العلّة namely  (واو , ياء)  that are used as semi vowels as well.


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## إسكندراني

Can they not also be called تشكيل?


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## seitt

many thanks - why أحرف العلّة? What is defective about the long vowels? At least they are written, unlike the short vowels.


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## clevermizo

The defectiveness is in reference to their _consonantal_ quality. ــو is not acting as /w/ when representing [ū], ــي is not acting as [y] when representing [ī]. In other words they are _consonants_ technically but in these cases are not acting as _consonants_ (so they have a "defect" in consonant quality).

The word حركات specifically refers to _vowel diacritics _which are markings above and below consonants like ــَ  or ـــِ etc. The long vowels represented by ــا or ـــو are not diacritics. I don't think the word حركات refers to the vowel sounds themselves but rather to the symbols in written form. I actually am unaware of the Arabic word for _vowel sounds_ as opposed to _consonant sounds_.

تشكيل is not a label for the symbols themselves, but is a word which refers to the _process of writing them in_. In English I suppose we could use the word _vowelization_.


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## Xence

> the "longer" vowels called أحرف العلّة namely (واو , ياء)



In a vowel context, they are rather called حروف المدّ ,and they are three.


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## WadiH

Actually, "7arakah" _does_ in fact primarily refer to the vowel itself, c.f. حرف ساكن، حرف متحرك. 

The diactritics can collectively be called شكْل, but they are also often referred to as حركات.


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## إسكندراني

so if i wanted to start an ar.wikipedia article on 'vowel', i would call it 'حركة'?


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## WadiH

حركة is a short vowel.  A long vowel is حرف مد.

I don't think traditional Arabic linguistics divides sounds into "vowels" and "consonants" the way modern linguistics does.  Rather, it divides them into متحرّكات ("moving") and سواكن ("still").  A "moving" sound is a consonant followed by a vowel, which can be short or long.  A "still" one is either a long vowel or a consonant followed by another consonant.  So, long vowels (حروف المدّ) are counted among the سواكن.  So, roughly speaking, we can analogize سواكن (minus the long vowels) with "consonants," and حركات + حروف المد with "vowels."


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## clevermizo

Interesting, so traditionally Arabic linguistics is more interested in syllable structure then?


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## إسكندراني

certainly syllables seem more important in reciting the Qur'aan


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## seitt

Wadi Hanifa said:


> and حركات + حروف المد with "vowels."


many thanks - but since there are only two, why not حرفا المد?

Btw, I hope I have come up with the correct dual form - if not, please correct.


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## hanthalah

It is the correct dual form.

This is an interesting discussion. Indeed explaining the vowel aspects in the Arab language is not easy.
I agree with what Wadi Hanifa said, the classical division between vowels and consonants is not very pertinent in Arabic.

Xence have mentioned that they are three in a vowel context, this is true they are و ا ي.

However, it should be noted that the ا (or in its other form ى), is a variation of either و or ي (when words are returned to their root). But both و and ي are letters in their "own right", because they serve as a semi-vowel as well, that's why we find them in the Arabic alphabet, and the ا is not present.

P.S. Arabic is usually regarded as a language poor with vowels (and rich in consonants), I tend to disagree with that because the three vowels (both in their short and long forms) apply only to classic Arabic, in the different Arabic dialects (far more used in our daily lives) there is quite a rich variation of vowels. Unfortunately these are  rarely recorded.


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## WadiH

clevermizo said:


> Interesting, so traditionally Arabic linguistics is more interested in syllable structure then?



Perhaps.  You're better equipped to address that than me.


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## إسكندراني

I am very confused by the way vowels work in arabic, but this discussion is helping - please keep sharing what you know.
so is the only way to start the ar.wiki article on 'vowel' to call it 'فاول'? (lol)


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## WadiH

There already is an Arabic Wikipedia article on vowels.  Its current title is حرف علة but the article itself speaks of حرف مصوّت.  The article on consonants was apparently entitled كونسون at some point but is now entitled حرف صامت (this can be confused with the term مصمت, which Sibawayh used to refer to something rather different).  If you look at the History and Discussion pages for these two articles, you'll notice that there was some confusion as to what Arabic words should be used to refer to "vowels" and "consonants."


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## إسكندراني

this confusion is why I'm asking actually; in your opinion should the articles simply be called فاول & كونسونان


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## WadiH

علمي علمك يا صديقي
هناك من يسمي الـ(فاولز) بالحركات والـ(كونسنانتس) بالسواكن من باب البساطة
وفي نهاية الأمر لا يهم اختيار المصطلح بقدر ما يهم تعريف المصطلح بشكل واضح ودقيق في البداية ثم الالتزام بالمصطلح بنفس ذلك المعنى في سائر العمل


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## MissLingO_o

I have a question, its related to thev vowels topic. What are the allophones in Arabic??? how can we compare them with the English ones?


Thanks


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## MissLingO_o

clevermizo said:


> Interesting, so traditionally Arabic linguistics is more interested in syllable structure then?


can you please explain more about the syllable structure?


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## clevermizo

Please feel free to start a new thread if you have specific questions about Arabic syllable structure. To discuss that here would be off-topic.

If you are unfamiliar with syllable structure _in general_, then I suggest you use this as your starting reading.


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## MissLingO_o

Thanks alot!


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## Ritato

What do you think of that?

Vowel = حرف علة
Consonant = حرف ساكن
Short vowel =حركة
Long vowel =حرف مد
Diacritics or vowel diacritics =
(collectively) العلامات الإعرابية أو الحركات
Vowelization = تشكيل أو ضبط الكلمات


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## إسكندراني

If you follow the aforementioned discussion you would notice that some of these terms can have other translations both ways round (ar-en / en-ar)


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