# No man is an island



## Nasoupw

Idiomatic expression to express the sentiment that we are all interconnected and that no man stands alone.

Ιδιοματισμός που εκφράζει το συνέσθημα ότι είμαστε όλοι ενωμένοι και ότι κανένας δεν είναι μόνος του.


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## Eltheza

Hi Nasoupw - Καλώς ήρθες!

No man is an island (John Donne) -

*Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι νησί*

*συνέσθημα > συναίσθημα


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## artion

Eltheza said:


> *Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι νησί*


 
But this is literal translation and not a traditional Greek saying.


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## Nasoupw

Thank you!!
Thank you for the correction in Greek of sentiment also.

Do you think there is a more Greek expression for this??

I have come across people saying things like μόνος γεννιέσαι, μόνος πεθαίνεις ...

Πρέπει να υπάρχει και μια έκφραση για το πρώτο στα Ελληνικά που δεν έχει απλά μεταφραστεί!

Τι λέτε;


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## orthophron

Nasoupw said:


> I have come across people saying things like μόνος γεννιέσαι, μόνος πεθαίνεις ...


Well, I don't think it corresponds to the expression. Trying to find more about the meaning of "No man is an island", I read somewhere: "Human beings do not thrive when isolated from others". However, I still can't think of an equivalent Greek motto.


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## Eltheza

artion said:


> But this is literal translation and not a traditional Greek saying.



It's been quoted to me by several educated Greek friends who are, however, familiar with the works of John Donne!


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## artion

I thought of the Gr. expression "Όλοι στο ίδιο καζάνι βράζουμε (-νε)" , meaning literally "we (/they) are all boiling in the same pot". It is usually used with the notion that we all have the same fate, or we all have common some particular characteristic which is understood from the context. Sociologically is distantly related with the english saying in question. 

The "κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι νησί" is not understood by a Greek who doesn't know the english original. The difference is that in english the "island" is recognizable as related to "isolation", but in Gr. the "νησί" is irrelevant to the "μόνoς".


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## Eltheza

*Hi artion!*

Όλοι στο ίδιο καζάνι βράζουμε' = *We're all in the same boat* - not quite the same, is it?

Έχω μεγάλη πίστη ότι εσείς, οι φυσικοί ομιλητές, θα βρείτε μια λύση!


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## apmoy70

artion said:


> I thought of the Gr. expression "Όλοι στο ίδιο καζάνι βράζουμε (-νε)" , meaning literally "we (/they) are all boiling in the same pot". It is usually used with the notion that we all have the same fate, or we all have common some particular characteristic which is understood from the context. Sociologically is distantly related with the english saying in question.
> 
> The "κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι νησί" is not understood by a Greek who doesn't know the english original. The difference is that in english the "island" is recognizable as related to "isolation", but in Gr. the "νησί" is irrelevant to the "μόνoς".


But, on the other hand, «νησίδα» (islet) is synonymous to isolation or at least related to uniqueness


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## giannis321

Nothing comes to mind, maybe modern Greek doesn´t have a specific expression with that meaning. After all, in Greece there is much correspondence between islands, so that would not make much sense anyways...
Of course it is easy to explain this meaning periphrastically, in an explanatory way. But to find a ready made phrase... I can´t think of anything at all!


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## Eltheza

giannis321 said:


> ... After all, in Greece there is much correspondence between islands, so that would not make much sense anyways...



'Οντως!

'Oμως, έχουμε κι'εδώ νησιά! 'Ισως διαφέρει η αντίληψη που έχουν οι δύο λάοι ως προς το ορισμό 'νησί';

(Sorry for for my faulty Greek - I'm practising!)


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## giannis321

Your Greek is impressive! (only _κι εδώ_ does not need an apostrophe)


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## cougr

Nasoupw said:


> Idiomatic expression to express the sentiment that we are all interconnected and that no man stands alone.
> 
> Ιδιοματισμός που εκφράζει το συνέσθημα ότι είμαστε όλοι ενωμένοι και ότι κανένας δεν είναι μόνος του.



Perhaps_ ουδείς ανεξάρτητος _could work in some instances in the sense that no human is wholly independent, we all depend on one another to some extent.


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## winegrower

I'm following this thread with interest and I agree with Cougr that we should use another word than island to get the idea across in Greek, only I'd pick a different one, like "μονάδα": Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν πρέπει να λογίζεται σαν μονάδα (αλλά σαν σύνολο). What do you think?


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## shawnee

The question that's bugging me is, whether Donne's poem has been translated into Greek.


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## giannis321

Take a look at this thread: http://www.activeradio.gr/index.php?topic=401.270 (after the middle of the page you'll find a translation by a member there...)


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## shawnee

Thanks gianni: "Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι νησί, ακέριος μοναχός του". I take it this rendition is accepted in scholarly circles. So the reason the expression is creating problems is not a matter of translation, but one of finding an equivalent idiomatic expression.


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## cougr

shawnee said:


> The question that's bugging me is, whether Donne's poem has been translated into Greek.




Hi shawnee,

There are many unofficial translations out there but as far as I am aware the only official translation which exists is to be found in the Greek translation of Hemingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls" by Ιάσων Αποστολόπουλος, PUBL: Γράμματα, 1992.

At the beginning of the book Hemingway dedicates the book to his wife at the time and immediately below includes Donne's poem (from which the title "For Whom The Bell Tolls" is taken).

Apostolopoulos translates the line under discussion as follows:

_Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι μόνος του ένα νησί_.......  emphasis mine

Edit: Just saw your post directly above now, must've cross posted, but basically that's the conundrum, finding a suitable stand alone expression that can in and of itself convey the same meaning as the English expression.


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## shawnee

cougr said:


> Hi shawnee,
> _Κανένας άνθρωπος δεν είναι μόνος του ένα νησί_.......  emphasis mine



Γειά σου cougr. In my humble opinion, I'd say that with the addition of your emphasis, you've nailed it.


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