# sinfully handsome



## Silver

Hi,

I wonder if I can say: He's sinfully handsome. (If I want to say he's extremely good-looking.)

Thanks a lot


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## sdgraham

I would not. (Especially as a heterosexual male)


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## Silver

I'm also a heterosexual male. I think culture differs. Here, teenagers are crazy about "pretty young man" and call them "sinfully handsome"


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## Delvo

It would be understandable, but not normal. It would sound like you must be quoting something your grandmother or a novel from the 1800s-to-1950s would say.


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## You little ripper!

“He’s disgustingly handsome/gorgeous!” is something I have heard occasionally.

Edit: I notice there are a reasonable number of Google hits for “sinfully handsome/gorgeous”.


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## francallahan

I mean why not? It sounds very *poetic *to me.


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## boozer

Silver, listen to what SDGraham says. 

'Sinfully handsome' is a perfectly possible phrase. Out of context, the implication is that he is so handsome, that you are tempted to sin with him. 

I agree with SDGraham - as a heterosexual man _I_ would not say it because it can't be true of me. 

A woman might, though.


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## suzi br

I’m not sure that seeing someone’s sex-appeal (and labelling it) automatically means that you personally would like to have sex with them. I don’t have a problem with that side of the discussion. 

It’s not an idiom we’re used to - so it’s going to sound unusual to native speakers - but if it’s a literal translation of a Chinese expression I could imagine it spreading as Chinese people start to impact on the evolution of English.  It’s going to happen.


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## boozer

suzi br said:


> I’m not sure that seeing someone’s sex-appeal (and labelling it) automatically means that you personally would like to have sex with them.


Right. 

Still, a heterosexual male would not say that of another male. Sounds suspicious at least, you know. I prefer to be on the safe side.


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## boozer

On a side note, I agree, of course, that it is not an established phrase. I myself heard it a moment ago when I opened this thread. However, looking at it, there can't be anything wrong with it and I find it possible, along with a million other phrases that are not well-established but use the language creatively.


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## suzi br

Sure. Stay safe, Boozer  

I don’t want to have sex with men, either, but I do sometimes talk about the amazing sexiness of Idris Elba, for example! 

You can say you’re talking about your own boundaries but I’m not sure you can generalise them out to ALL heterosexual men.


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## boozer

suzi br said:


> You can say you’re talking about your own boundaries but I’m not sure you can generalise them out to ALL heterosexual men.


Fair enough, Suzi. Agreed.
Let's put it that way - I strongly suspect that this attitude (mine and SDGraham's) is the prevalent one among heterosexual males.


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## Barque

I agree that expression isn't one I'd expect to hear from a heterosexual male. In fact anything more than very mild appreciation of a man's looks sounds odd to me from a heterosexual male. 

I've always thought the "sinfully" in such expressions had a different meaning from the one Boozer suggested however. _He's sinfully handsome = He's so handsome it's a sin. _It has a suggestion of "too good to be true" to me, if you get what I mean. A similar expression is _He's devilishly handsome._


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## boozer

Yes, Barque - yours is the normal interpretation. Mine is a forced one - it reflects the suspicious fact of a man being so appreciative of another man's looks.


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## Silver

I persoanlly won't use it. I wonder if a young woman can say that.

Thanks a lot


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## Barque

Answered above.


boozer said:


> A woman might, though.


Yes, much more natural sounding from a woman.


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## Edinburgher

Frankly, I don't see that anyone using the term would, by so doing, indicate that they personally might be tempted to partake in sinning with this handsome character, but merely that someone might.


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## ewie

I can imagine the late great Dame Barbara Cartland using it in one of her gushy moments, of which she had one or two ... million:


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## boozer

Edinburgher said:


> Frankly, I don't see that anyone using the term would, by so doing, indicate that they personally might be tempted to partake in sinning with this handsome character, but merely that someone might.


And how do we know that someone might? The speaker judges by their own inclinations and the phrase itself is loaded with sexual overtones... One thing leads to another. 

[This is out of context, of course - nothing to tell us that the sinfully handsome character _has been known_ to make someone sin. Nothing to tell us that this might be a sarcastic remark, etc. All we know is that someone says, possibly with admiration, 'Wow, Jamie is sinfully handsome!']


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## Edinburgher

boozer said:


> And how do we know that someone might?


We just do.  Trust me.  We have evolved into highly intelligent and empathic beings, and part of that is that we can see and judge things by other people's standards and not just our own.
Let me give a non-sexual example:  If I were a vegetarian, I could still see the attraction that a nice juicy steak might have to a meat-eater.  We often talk about "sinning" with food, especially when we're meant to be on a diet.


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## rajulbat

If you want to call a man _sinfully handsome_, go for it. There is nothing wrong with it grammatically and it gets the point across just fine.

Frankly, I find all the above paranoia and dire warnings about being perceived as gay to be ridiculous and tiresome.

A more common phrase is _drop-dead gorgeous_, which is in common usage and can refer to a male or female.


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## Barque

rajulbat said:


> A more common phrase is _drop-dead gorgeous_,


Call me paranoid then, because I'd drop dead before saying this about a man.


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## rajulbat

Barque said:


> Call me paranoid then, because I'd drop dead before saying this about a man.


Paranoid.


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## boozer

And I have heard a similar remark about my son from a gay colleague. (it was well-meant and innocent*, so I took no offence) The point is, people have certain sets of expectations from various groups they are in contact with. A remark of this kind immediately places the speaker in the particular group that matches the general expectation. Only additional knowledge and context can make me think differently of the man saying that of another man. No paranoia, just common sense and experience.

* well, and flattering, in a way.


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## rajulbat

Silverobama said:


> I wonder if I can say: He's sinfully handsome. (If* I want to say he's extremely good-looking*.)


Emphasis added. The "certain sets of expectations" (also called stereotypes) bit is on the hearer, not the speaker. As the alarm-sounders have already made clear, _any_ expression of appreciation for another man's looks is perceived as gay in many cultures, whether that be sinfully handsome, hot, sexy, cute... Nothing about this phrase particularly; just generalized homophobia is all (which was not asked about, by the way).


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## Barque

rajulbat said:


> As the alarm-sounders have already made clear, _any_ expression of appreciation for another man's looks is perceived as gay in many cultures, whether that be sinfully handsome, hot, sexy, cute... Nothing about this phrase particularly; just generalized homophobia is all


Well, we're a good match, we alarm-sounders and you. We're paranoid about not attracting attention and being perceived as gay, while you're eager to attract attention by letting us know we are ridiculous and tiresome.


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## boozer

rajulbat said:


> just generalized homophobia is all (which was not asked about, by the way).


This is male bovine f.....s, of course.



rajulbat said:


> As the alarm-sounders have already made clear, _any_ expression of appreciation for another man's looks is perceived as gay in many cultures,...


And perhaps you could show me a culture in which it is seen as customary for heterosexual men to be swooning over the looks of other men?


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## lingobingo

I love this thread. Several of the posts made me laugh. 

But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.


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## ewie

lingobingo said:


> But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.




I propose as an alternative _ridiculously good-looking._


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## sound shift

lingobingo said:


> But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.


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## Delvo

I would have interpreted the "sinfully" part as referring to the handsome person, not the ideas he inspires in the person who calls him that. ("He looks so good that he must be bad in other ways", not "He looks so good he makes other people want to be bad")

But the attention which that word has gotten has overshadowed the fact that the other word is an unusual choice on its own, regardless of whether something like "sinfully" is added. First, it's just old-fashioned, and second, on the rare occasion that someone does say it in modern times, it's practically never about a guy she's actually attracted to herself; it's how she describes a guy she's claiming some hypothetical other woman would hypothetically be attracted to even if she isn't.

And that emotional detachment makes it especially strange in combination with an adverb that sounds like the speaker feels quite strongly about the subject instead.


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## Packard

I think I've been called "seductively good-looking", and quite recently too.  Women are dropping like flies all around me.

I think "sinfully" is a wrong word.  It assumes that sex is a sin.

"Seductively" sounds more reasonable.  It could seduce you into sex, which might be sinful or not.


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## Edinburgher

Packard said:


> I think I've been called "seductively good-looking", and quite recently too.


 Well, if you've got it, flaunt it.  Enjoy it while it lasts.


> Women are dropping like flies all around me.


Bottom line: Are they dropping  their knickers  for you?


Packard said:


> I think "sinfully" is a wrong word. It assumes that sex is a sin.


Only if you're thinking too far ahead.  Doesn't it really just assume that to be good-looking is a sin, by placing your rivals at a disadvantage?


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## Oddmania

Whatever does sex have to do with beauty? It's sad (and rather puritanical) that mentioning somebody's good looks should take you straight to the point where you're guilty of lust.

_He's hellishly handsome.
He looks like a Greek god.
He's model material.
He's a ten.
He's far above average.
You'd whiste at him.
_​I think you can say pretty much anything if you say it with the right tone and amount of confidence. It depends on _you _and how you say it, not on the words you say.


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## boozer

Oddmania said:


> It's sad



After weeping for 5 minutes -->


Oddmania said:


> ...that mentioning somebody's good looks should take you straight to the point where you're guilty of lust.


In my experience, it takes you to that point a lot more often than the point at which you want to play chess with the person in question. Or solve mathematical problems with (in this case) him. 

I imagine this girl is thinking of someone she might describe as sinfully handsome.


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## ewie

Delvo said:


> the attention which that word has gotten has overshadowed the fact that the other word is an unusual choice on its own, regardless of whether something like "sinfully" is added.


 I'd be more likely to describe a woman as _handsome_ than a man.  But that's a whole other can of worms


Delvo said:


> [_handsome_ is] how she describes a guy she's claiming some hypothetical other woman would hypothetically be attracted to even if she isn't.


 I find this a bit mind-boggling, Delvo ~ any chance of a little example of what you mean?


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## Oddmania

@boozer It's your problem if you can't dissociate sexuality from aesthetics.


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## rajulbat

lingobingo said:


> But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.


I agree.


ewie said:


> I propose as an alternative _ridiculously good-looking._



That's a good option. 



Oddmania said:


> Whatever does sex have to do with beauty? It's sad (and rather puritanical) that mentioning somebody's good looks should take you straight to the point where you're guilty of lust....
> ​I think you can say pretty much anything if you say it with the right tone and amount of confidence. It depends on _you _and how you say it, not on the words you say.





Oddmania said:


> @boozer It's your problem if you can't dissociate sexuality from aesthetics.



My thoughts exactly.


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## Packard

Oddmania said:


> @boozer It's your problem if you can't dissociate sexuality from aesthetics.




I don't know:

"She's hot, hot, hot!  I just can't wait to get in chess game with her."  (I don't think so.)


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## boozer

Oddmania said:


> @boozer It's your problem if you can't dissociate sexuality from aesthetics.


Now seriously, Oddmania, when talking about 'handsome', even if we forget for a moment the word 'sinfully', most dictionaries define it as 'attractive'. This is one of them only
handsome Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
_A handsome man is physicallyattractive in a traditional, male way_

Can you tell me, when we say 'attraction' and associate it with a person's physical appearance, who is attracted by whom and for what?

I do not need to dissociate anything - they are always related - sexuality and male handsomeness.

And then we have the word 'sinfully'...


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## suzi br

rajulbat said:


> A more common phrase is _drop-dead gorgeous_, which is in common usage and can refer to a male or female.



I agree with this alternative, and was thinking about it myself, in terms of the fact that such modifiers are often not LITERAL.  No-one is suggesting anything to do with death on this case, nor is sin literally implied with sinfully handsome.  The other examples mentioned  in post #35 are mostly hyperbolic and metaphorical too - they all just attempt to ring the changes from "very" or "really" handsome which are the obvious (dull) options.




Packard said:


> I think I've been called "seductively good-looking", and quite recently too.  Women are dropping like flies all around me.
> .



You "think" you have?  

Marvellous, and with all the womenfolk swooning around you it's hard to get a decent evidence base, I suppose.

I am ravishingly gorgeous. No-one else seems to have noticed yet, though.


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## rajulbat

boozer said:


> Now seriously, Oddmania, when talking about 'handsome', even if we forget for a moment the word 'sinfully', most dictionaries define it as 'attractive'. This is one of them only
> handsome Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
> _A handsome man is physicallyattractive in a traditional, male way_
> 
> Can you tell me, when we say 'attraction' and associate it with a person's physical appearance, who is attracted by whom and for what?
> 
> I do not need to dissociate anything - they are always related - sexuality and male handsomeness.
> 
> And then we have the word 'sinfully'...


It's OK boozer. We know you're not gay. Whyever would anyone think otherwise?


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## Oddmania

@boozer "Handsome" simply means "good-looking" or "pleasing to look at".


Packard said:


> I don't know:


I do know. You've changed "handsome" to "hot".

“Michelangelo's _David _depicts an extremely handsome youth. I can't wait to bang him.”_ (I don't think so)._



suzi br said:


> I am ravishingly gorgeous. No-one else seems to have noticed yet, though.


(_I _actually have, but I was afraid it would sound inappropriate to comment on your photo out of the blue).


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## boozer

Oddmania said:


> @boozer "Handsome" simply means "good-looking" or "pleasing to look at".


Many dictionaries see more than that simplicity, though. Two more in addition to the one already quoted.
the definition of handsome

Handsome definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary


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## velisarius

I'm not sure what the average native speaker would understand by "sinfully handsome", but 

"He's a handsome devil" is a more common expression, and I don't think it necessary implies sexual interest on the part of the speaker. More like grudging admiration of the other person's known or imagined success with the ladies (and I would think probably only with the ladies, but what do I know?)


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## Oddmania

@boozer:

*attractive*
1. adjective
A person who is attractive is pleasant to look at.
(Collins English Dictionary -- the one you quoted)



We're just going around in circles.


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## boozer

Oddmania said:


> We're just going around in circles.


Yes, if we keep avoiding on purpose the core meaning
_having or relating to the power to attract_
Definition of ATTRACTIVE

and the actual meaning when describing people
_(of a person) appealing to look at; sexually alluring_
attractive | Definition of attractive in English by Oxford Dictionaries


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## Oddmania

The _"actual meaning"_ is the one you cherry-picked out of various dictionaries to support your assumption that describing a man as "handsome" necessarily contains sexual innuendo.

*pretty*
adjective
1. (especially of a woman, or a girl) *attractive *without being very beautiful
pretty | Definition of _pretty _in English by Oxford Dictionaries​
Be careful not to ever tell a young girl she looks "pretty".

*handsome*
adjective
1. (of a man) good-looking.

_‘He was _handsome_, she was gorgeous and on screen they were electric.’_
_‘There's Irene at the wedding of a _handsome _chap and spunky blonde who we now call the mayor and mayoress.’_
_‘Now, I don't find Brad Pitt in the slightest bit attractive, but I can accept that he's a _handsome _man.’_
handsome | Definition of _handsome_ in English by Oxford Dictionaries​


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## siares

lingobingo said:


> But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.


I saw coffee described as sinfully good. I read the OP as describing bodily self-indulgence which takes one's mind from higher planes, but not necessarily straight to gutter.  Mountains are not sinfully beautiful because they are indulgent for the soul.


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## lingobingo

siares said:


> I saw coffee described as sinfully good. I read the OP as describing bodily self-indulgence which takes one's mind from higher planes, but not necessarily straight to gutter.  Mountains are not sinfully beautiful because they are indulgent for the soul.


None of that makes any sense to me.

• A sinfully handsome man = a tongue-in-cheek way of describing a man so head-turningly good-looking as to make us lesser mortals feel we’ve been given a raw deal.
• Sinfully good coffee = coffee so delicious that it feels sinful/self-indulgent to drink it.
• Sinfully beautiful mountains = What!? The only scenario I can think of in which the word “sinfully” might be used in this context is if the term were catching on generally and people had started using it randomly, regardless of logic.


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## siares

I was agreeing with you, lingobingo!


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## bibliolept

Were I to describe a dessert, say a dish of ice cream, with an adjective modified by "sinfully," the assumption wouldn't be that there is sin figuratively or literally ascribed to the dessert but rather than there is sin either in the having or the eating. There is a presumption of consumption, if you will.


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## Silver

lingobingo said:


> But as for “sinfully” handsome, I didn’t for a moment relate it to sin in a sexual sense. I saw it as describing someone as so handsome that it should be considered a sin – an offence, a crime – for him to look so much better than other males.



This was the meaning I intended to say. I remember I saw this word when I was watching an American TV series and someone said "Sinfully handsome", Desperate Housewives, if memory serves.


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## sdgraham

Silverobama said:


> This was the meaning I intended to say. I remember I saw this word when I was watching an American TV series and someone said "Sinfully handsome", Desperate Housewives, if memory serves.


Was that "somebody" male or female?


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## Silver

sdgraham said:


> Was that "somebody" male or female?



Sorry, I don't remember. It was almost a decade ago. At that time I was still learning English from TV series. Later, I met you, I started to know what real and natural English is.

But in that TV show, homosexual males and females are easily to be seen.


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