# to judge - etymology



## ThomasK

I am quite aware of the fact that the word has been dealt with elsewhere here, but I want more information about the background, like the root, to see how the concept works in practice. 

So: could you give me the word you (can) use to translate 'judge', and tell me how broadly you can use it_? _I am also interested in near-synonyms in your language. 
In Dutch we mainly use *oordelen*, which is recognizable in the English _ordeal _and which - according to etymonline.com - can be explained as: 


> from Proto-Germanic noun *_uz-dailjam_(cognates: Old Saxon _urdeli_, Old Frisian _urdel_, Dutch _oordeel_, German _urteil _"judgment"), literally "that which is *dealt out*" (by the gods),


to which one ought to add that 'deal' here is linked with Dutch 'deel', meaning 'part', and *'delen'*, to share, implying 'to distribute', French 'partager', etc. 

Yet, this is a reduction to the court context, and I'd think the main aspect is determining whether something is right or wrong, nice or ugly, etc. If you can, please tell me how broadly you can use the word and how you translate _I consider something beautiful (_Dutch:_ Ik vind iets mooi)_. It is some kind of judgement to me too, and in lists of Dutch synonyms verbs like 'to  consider', 'deem', etc., are mentioned as synonyms...The funny thing is that the noun 'oordeel' is paraphrased as 'mening' (i.e, opinion) in Dutch, whereas I think it is mainly a value judgement (leading to an opinion, of course)...  *So if you don't mind, mention this verb (for 'to consider'/ 'to think') too...*


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## apmoy70

In Greek judge is *« δικαστής»* [ðikaˈstis] (masc. & fem) < Classical masc. & fem. noun *«δικαστής» dĭkastḗs* (archaic *«δικασπόλος» dĭkăspólŏs**) < Classical fem. noun *«δίκη» díkē* --> _custom, right, judgement, justice, lawsuit, trial, punishment_ (PIE *deiḱ-, _to show_ cf Skt. दिशा (diśā), _direction_; Lat. dīcere > It. dire, Sp. decir, Por. dizer, Fr. dire, Rom. zice).

From *«δίκη» díkē* also derive: 
Classical neut. noun *«δίκαιον» díkaiŏn* --> _codified law_ (e.g. Civil Law = Ἀστικόν Δίκαιον), Classical fem. noun *«δικαιοσύνη» dĭkaiŏsúnē* --> _justice_, Classical neut. noun *«δικαστήριον» dĭkăstḗriŏn* --> _court of law_, Classical adj. *«δίκαιος» díkaiŏs* --> _just, lawful, righteous_, *«δικαίωμα» dĭkaíōmă* --> _act of right_ (in MoGr *«δικαίωμα»* [ðiˈce.oma] = _right_ (as in Human Right)), *«δικαίωσις» dĭkaíōsis* --> _lawsuit, punishment_ (in MoGr *«δικαίωση»* [ðiˈce.osi] = _vindication, justification_) etc.
Many Classical derivative words form «δίκη» are inhereted into MoGr (most have the same ancient meaning): *δικαστής» *[ðikaˈstis], *«δίκαιο»* [ˈðice.o], *«δικαιοσύνη»* [ðice.oˈsini], *«δικαστήριο»* [ðikaˈstiɾi.o], as is *«δίκη»* [ˈðici] itself.

**«Δικασπόλος» dĭkăspólŏs* (masc. & fem.) < compound; Classical fem. noun *«δίκη» díkē* + o-grade deverbal masc. noun *«πόλος» pólŏs* --> _axis, world axis, pole, vault_ < Classical deponent v. *«πέλομαι» pélŏmai* --> _to stir, become, take place, be_ (PIE *kʷlh₁-, _to go round_ cf Skt. चरति (cárati), _to walk, be occupied_; Lat. colēre; Proto-Germanic *hwehwlą > Ger. Wiel, Eng. wheel, Dt. wiel, Isl. hjól, D./Swe./Nor. hjul).

As you can see all of the aforementioned terminology is mostly juridical or relating to jurisprudence.


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## ThomasK

But then you cannot say something 'I judge the party nice', can you? How would you then paraphrase that? What kind of verbs would you use, if I may ask?


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> But then you cannot say something 'I judge the party nice', can you? How would you then paraphrase that? What kind of verbs would you use, if I may ask?


No we can't it sounds awkward.
We use the MoGr v. *«κρίνω»* [ˈkrino] --> _to evaluate, consider, form an opinion_ < Classical v. *«κρίνω» krínō* --> _to separate, choose, select, decide_, secondary meanings _condemn, accuse, apply_ (PIE *kre(h₁)i-, _to separate, distinguish, sieve_ cf Latin cernere > It. cernere, Sp./Fr. cerner, Por. cernir, Rom. cerne; Proto-Germanic *hrīnaną > Eng. rine, Dt. rijnen, Old Norse hrína).
The denominative v. *«δικάζω»* [ðiˈkazo] < Classical v. *«δικάζω» dĭkázō* --> _to judge _(< Classical fem. noun *«δίκη» díkē*), is strictly juridical.


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## ThomasK

Excellent, thanks a lot !


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## 810senior

Judge sounds very comprehensive to me so I'm not sure what meaning of judge you want to know...
At least, in Japanese, there are independent words in accordance with the each meaning of judge.

> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judge
*
a. One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness*
鑑定士kanteishi or 鑑定家kanteika(a person estimating something)
kan=to look through, tei=to decide, determine, shi, ka=person(occupation)

*b. Law A public official who hears and decides cases brought in court.*
裁判官saibankan(an officer in charge of the court)
sai=to judge, han=to distinguish, kan=an officer

*d. One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition.*
審判shinpan(a person making decisions in the contest)
shin=investigation, pan(han)=to distinguish, to tell from


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## ThomasK

Interesting. Most people hearing the word 'judge' will think of 'justice' (word or concept), even of right (Latin 'jus'), as in Greek - i.e., your (b) answer I guess. 

Yet, I think indeed you can view it in a broader sense, even broader than yours, as in judging about beauty (or not), intelligence, etc., which might be considered more like qualifying, I imagine.


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## ancalimon

In Turkish the word "yargıç" is used.

yargı : judgement
yargıç : judge
yargılamak : to judge

Not sure if the word is related with "yarmak" meaning "to go through", "to split,cleave".


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## ThomasK

Can you also _yargıç_ quality, Ancalimon?


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## mataripis

Tagalog: a person- judge/hukom.  An action of judging or to judge- humatol from root word hatol.Judgement is Kahatulan  and day of judgement is araw ng paghuhukom (final).


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## ancalimon

ThomasK said:


> Can you also _yargıç_ quality, Ancalimon?



It's possible but not widely done. Instead of "kalite yargılamak", "kalite değerlendirmek" (to evaluate quality) is used more often.


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## ThomasK

As such 'evaluate' sounds fairly theoretical, scientific. Would you know of another verb that can be used here, as _'I find/consider/... that nice' [1]_?



mataripis said:


> Tagalog: a person- judge/*hukom*.  An action of judging or to judge- humatol from root word *hatol*.Judgement is Kahatulan  and day of judgement is araw ng paghuhukom (final).



How about the sentence [1]?


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> As such 'evaluate' sounds fairly theoretical, scientific. Would you know of another verb that can be used here, as _'I find/consider/... that nice' [1]_?
> 
> 
> 
> How about the sentence [1]?


Hukom become verb in the form of hinukuman but rarely used by Filipinos. The common form is hatol.Hukom appeared in Supreme Court - Kataastaasang Hukuman.but in ordinary humans, the use of hatol is ordinary case. Ok i'll use hukom in the sentence. 1.) The people did so much evil and it is the reason why catastrophies took place.It is judgement day for them.- Labis ang kasamaan ng mga Tao at yan ang dahilan ng kaganapan ng mga sakuna. Iyan ang hukom sa kanila.


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## Armas

In Finnish

tuomita = [1] juridical: to pass a sentence, to judge (to act as a judge), to convict, to try a case [2] destiny, religion: to doom, to judge [3] disapproving, denouncing: to condemn [4] sports: to referee

It does not have the meaning "evaluate, consider".

We also have ratkaista, which means to judge, to adjudicate when we are talking about judges and courts. Otherwise it means "to solve" and comes from ratkoa = to unpick (a seam).


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## ThomasK

The etymological link is quite interesting. That reminds me of the origin of verbs meaning 'to explain': to disentangle, to loosen (ex implies freeing...). Can you also analyse the first word? 

But then what verbs do you use for evaluating? (_I "find"/ consider that good_)


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## Armas

Do you mean the etymology of tuomita? It comes from a Germanic source, compare English "doom."

I find/consider it good. = Pidän sitä hyvänä. = I hold it good.


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## ThomasK

Would it not be more like 'deem'? ('Doom' sounds quite neg. to me...)


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## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> Would it not be more like 'deem'? ('Doom' sounds quite neg. to me...)



_doom_ is from the same root as _deem_, and it originally meant "judgement"; for example, _Doomsday _= "Judgement Day".


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## ThomasK

You're right, thanks, I was too quick...


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## SuperXW

810senior said:


> Judge sounds very comprehensive to me so I'm not sure what meaning of judge you want to know...
> At least, in Japanese, there are independent words in accordance with the each meaning of judge.
> 
> > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judge
> *
> a. One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness*
> 鑑定士kanteishi or 鑑定家kanteika(a person estimating something)
> kan=to look through, tei=to decide, determine, shi, ka=person(occupation)
> 
> *b. Law A public official who hears and decides cases brought in court.*
> 裁判官saibankan(an officer in charge of the court)
> sai=to judge, han=to distinguish, kan=an officer
> 
> *d. One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition.*
> 審判shinpan(a person making decisions in the contest)
> shin=investigation, pan(han)=to distinguish, to tell from





ThomasK said:


> Interesting. Most people hearing the word 'judge' will think of 'justice' (word or concept), even of right (Latin 'jus'), as in Greek - i.e., your (b) answer I guess.
> 
> Yet, I think indeed you can view it in a broader sense, even broader than yours, as in judging about beauty (or not), intelligence, etc., which might be considered more like qualifying, I imagine.



When I see the word, I think about the judge in court. To me, that person is easier to think of than an abstract verb...
Chinese (P.R.China's standard) is similar to Japanese. But I have doubt about meaning a. here. I think it is a rarely-mentioned occupation with more specific terms in English. Does it belong to the meaning of "judge"? 
*a. One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness*
鉴定人/鉴定家 Literally: "evaluate-person/evaluate-professional"

*b. Law A public official who hears and decides cases brought in court.*
法官 literally: "law-officer"

*d. One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition.*
裁判 can be both the noun and the verb

And, for the verb, usually we translate it as 判断.
E.g. 判断正误: judge right or wrong; 判断情况 judge the situation
It mostly relate to facts. We don't use the verb for subjective opinions. We use "think", "believe", "consider", etc.


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## francisgranada

Hungarian

The verb itself is *itélni *(infinitive). Examples (some with prefixes):

itélni - to judge
itélet - condemnation, verdict
megitélni - to estimate, adjudicate ....
elitélni - to condemn
...

The noun for "judge" is _bíró _that comes from a different verb, namely _bírni_. This noun can be interpreted _grosso modo_ as the person who "has the charge/power [to judge]".


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## rusita preciosa

In Russian (and some Slavic languages) the root is -суд- / -sud-

суд /sud/ - trial/court
судья /sudya/ - judge
судить /sudit'/ - to try/prosecute/sue

According to Vasmer the root has proslavic origin *sǫdъ


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## ThomasK

But then no broad meaning, I gather. What verb would you use for "I don't think it [find...] nice/..."?


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## 810senior

I have perfectly forgotten about the meaning as verb...
The way Japanese does is same to Chinese.

判断する_handan -suru_ to judge
han = to distinguish, dan = to determine, -suru = to do, lit. to do distinguishing and determining

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Other expressions:
判定する_hantei -suru_
han = to distinguish, tei = to determine, decide, lit. to do distinguishing and decision(determining).

裁断する_saidan -suru_
sai = to judge(to pass judgement on somebody), dan = to determine lit. to do judgement and determining.

推し量る_oshihakaru_
a compounded verb. osu(to infer) and hakaru(to measure), lit. to infer and measure, meaning to presume, to take for granted.


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