# Cuss words and women . . .



## VenusEnvy

I am under the impression that gender roles in Spanish-speaking cultures are fairly more rigid than in my own (in the states). Often times, if I say something to my Spanish-speaking friends that is even somewhat "cuss-wordy" they get offended, and inform me that women don't speak that way.

This is so very different to my state-side girlfriends, whose mouths would make any man blush.  True, I don't cuss in front of children, parents, or strangers, but I have noticed this trend with my Spanish-speaking male friends.

What do others think? I'd be interested to know.  Thanks all!


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## Silvia

I guess that's a tendency of women towards traditional male patterns, which in most cases results in a worsening of their conditions. As I see it, some women, and this is quite common in a certain type of Western society like USA, would wish to emulate male patterns even in the ugliest behaviors (drinking, cursing, etc.). This might be well accepted by men of that society, but not by others. Though, even US men might have something to object to that kind of behavior, which can be perceived as unfit for a woman.

If you don't cuss in front of children, parents or strangers, it's 'cause you deem it unfit, this fear witnesses a reminescence of a "past" culture when cursing was wrong.

In my opinion, there are countries that are more attached to their values and culture compared to the US, for example as regards family and family related issues.

Feel free to correct my mistakes, 'cause I feel I can't speak English tonight


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## vachecow

Thats funny, we live so close, yet.......this doesn't really answer your question, but .......at least where I live, women don't curse.  And when they do, men who curse all the time are shocked


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## Silvia

Thanks for confirming my theory, vachecow


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## esme

I really think it depends on the values the person has in any case. In the US like in any other counrty there will be women (and men) that who curse every other word. From my experience, yes, Latinamerican counrties seem to be more conservative and so is the case in European countries..I think..you might want to confirm that silviap


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## cuchuflete

Hello Venus,

Preamble:  
1. I don't react differently to rough language whether its spoken/written by men or by women.
2. I feel women have the same rights as men...note that I didn't say 'should have'.  The rights are theirs.  The exercise of those rights is often restricted both by other women and by men.  That's wrong.
3. I place no moral weight on the use of curse words, neither positive nor negative.

Opinion:  Language is at its best when it is used with precision.  Overused terms, whether or not of the curseword variety, lose their specific meanings over time, and become a kind of background noise.  Once this happens they can, at best, set a general tone.  Examples: Estupendo in Spanish; Love in English.

Conclusion: If one uses curse words selectively, to express a strong emotion or idea, such use is highly effective communication.  If one uses such words habitually, they communicate very little, so ¿why bother saying them?

When a man--myself for example--or a woman who rarely uses cursewords does chose to use one, or more...the words have a strong impact on the listener.

Thanks for a good topic Venus,
Cuchu


			
				VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am under the impression that gender roles in Spanish-speaking cultures are fairly more rigid than in my own (in the states). Often times, if I say something to my Spanish-speaking friends that is even somewhat "cuss-wordy" they get offended, and inform me that women don't speak that way.
> 
> This is so very different to my state-side girlfriends, whose mouths would make any man blush.  True, I don't cuss in front of children, parents, or strangers, but I have noticed this trend with my Spanish-speaking male friends.
> 
> What do others think? I'd be interested to know.  Thanks all!


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## modgirl

This is interesting -- I've rarely heard the word "cuss!"!  Usually, the word used is "curse."  In business, I think it's very self-defeating.  Colloquially, it's more common, of course.  As a general rule, from my own experiences, I do hear more impolite words from men than women.  Women sometimes are just more clever at insults without having to resort to foul language.


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## Silvia

I agree with you, esme, as well as I agree with cuchufléte and modgirl


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## lauranazario

The usage of cuss/curse words is a matter of *choice*, and is not limited to any culture or any specific region of the globe.

While it's true that there is a 'double standard' when women do decide to curse out of their own free will (people generally seem more 'shocked' when a woman swears as it is perceived as being "unbecoming for a lady"), I, as a woman, am equally shocked when I hear a man swear for no apparent reason.

Sadly, curse words are becoming very prevalent in some types of music, and nowadays I see/hear more and more young people 'populating' everyday sentences with _bitch_ or _cabrón_, just to give you a couple of examples.

I do not tend to curse... yet cuss words are not banished from my personal form of expression. If I hit my finger with a hammer, I'll swear briefly... and if engaged in a VERY heated argument/fight with a person I might swear as well. But those are very rare instances when cursing is somewhat "appropriate". Other than that, I refrain from cursing... because it's my personal choice and not because as a woman and due to my gender I might be 'forbidden' by society to do so.

LauraN.


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## vic_us

Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?


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## lauranazario

vic_us said:
			
		

> Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?



Are you referring to "sexual commands" like _f**k me_ or something to that effect??? Do you consider that "moderate cursing"???
Otherwise, I would not understand why on earth one would swear at his/her partner during sex!!!!


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## Jonegy

lauranazario said:
			
		

> Are you referring to "sexual commands" like _f**k me_ or something to that effect??? Do you consider that "moderate cursing"???
> Otherwise, I would not understand why on earth one would swear at his/her partner during sex!!!!


 
Some may say " A good old fashioned verb used for a good old fachioned activity"  ;-)


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?



Vic-  the key to your question is what you mean by "acceptable".  To whom? As there is, presumably most of the time, only a single listener, I suppose it's up to that sole person to decide.  If the interlocutor finds the use of the cursewords offensive, it is likely that intimacy will not occur on a regular or prolonged basis.  

For those who may like to hear such comments in the setting described--during sexual encounters--there may be a double standard in play.  Most people don't seem to like a lot of public cursing, so those who enjoy it or are not upset by it in private may be hypocrites!

Cuchu


PS- Why just direct this question to the ladies?  They are not the only ones present in your scenario!!


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## fetchezlavache

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> PS- Why just direct this question to the ladies?  They are not the only ones present in your scenario!!




hear hear ! bravo cuchu !


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## beatrizg

vic_us said:
			
		

> Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?




I could say I'm in favour of creative cursing, in and out of bed.


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?





			
				beatrizg said:
			
		

> I could say I'm in favour of creative cursing, in and out of bed.



And what would a logician conclude from this statement, in regard to one's choice of locale for matters other than cursing?

Now we may have to re-think the answers to Vic's question:
1. Acceptability of cursing during intercourse in a bed;
2. Acceptability of cursing during intercourse other than in a bed;


Is there a difference?

Cuchu


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## beatrizg

Mea culpa, Cuchu. Con el 'in and out of bed' trataba de responder tambien a la pregunta que inicio el thread -aun no se hacer dos quotes en el mismo post. 

Pero si alguien quiere profudizar en el tema y referirse a las diferentes circunstancias que mencionas, no tengo problema.


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## cuchuflete

beatrizg said:
			
		

> Mea culpa, Cuchu. Con el 'in and out of bed' trataba de responder tambien a la pregunta que inicio el thread -aun no se hacer dos quotes en el mismo post.
> 
> Pero si alguien quiere profudizar en el tema y referirse a las diferentes circunstancias que mencionas, no tengo problema.



Hola Beatriz,
Lo de cortar y pegar las citas es bastante fácil.  He citado tu mensaje, y después fui a copiar la cita de Vic del mensaje anterior.

Sin aprofundizar mucho, ¿Te parece que hay diferencias según los locales?

Cuchu


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## beatrizg

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Sin aprofundizar mucho, ?Te parece que hay diferencias seg?n los locales?
> 
> Cuchu




Tendremos que preguntarle a Vic.


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## vic_us

lauranazario said:
			
		

> Are you referring to "sexual commands" like _f**k me_ or something to that effect??? Do you consider that "moderate cursing"???
> Otherwise, I would not understand why on earth one would swear at his/her partner during sex!!!!



Let's see if I understand you. Are you saying that 
a) _F**k me_ isn't moderate cursing or that
b) It is immoderate cursing but acceptable when a woman is having sex with the man (or woman) she loves?


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> And what would a logician conclude from this statement, in regard to one's choice of locale for matters other than cursing?
> 
> Now we may have to re-think the answers to Vic's question:
> 1. Acceptability of cursing during intercourse in a bed;
> 2. Acceptability of cursing during intercourse other than in a bed;
> 
> 
> Is there a difference?
> 
> Cuchu



Now that we are expanding our horizons (intercourse other than in bed), I think that a piece of advice is warranted. 

If you are planning to have sex in the bathroom of a plane or on the back seat of a bus, I'd suggest not only to avoid loud off-color remarks but also to keep the moaning and groaning under control...


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## cuchuflete

May I gently suggest we return to the topic of language in its various forms and environments?  It's not that I don't appreciate Vic's advice...but this is a forum and thread dedicated to culture, rather than to transportation etiquette!

Gracias,
Qxu


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## Artrella

What is cuss words??


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## cuchuflete

Artrella said:
			
		

> What is[ *are* cuss words??



Art, it appears you are on holiday, and thus without your library.  However, you might try...since you seem to have internet access, to do either of the following:

1. Look up the word in the WR or another on-line dictionary; or
2. Read the thread, starting at the beginning.

Cordial regards,
Cuchu

PS- In the unlikely event that numbers 1 and 2 do not provide an adequate answer, I'm sure that you could find willing helpers in the English Only forum.


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## Artrella

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Art, it appears you are on holiday, and thus without your library.  However, you might try...since you seem to have internet access, to do either of the following:
> 
> 1. Look up the word in the WR or another on-line dictionary; or
> 2. Read the thread, starting at the beginning.
> 
> Cordial regards,
> Cuchu
> 
> PS- In the unlikely event that numbers 1 and 2 do not provide an adequate answer, I'm sure that you could find willing helpers in the English Only forum.





Thx, Cuchufléte!!!!


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## Artrella

We found no Spanish translation for 'cuss' in our English to Spanish Dictionary. 

Look for a definition in our English Dictionary. 

Or did you want to translate 'cuss' from Spanish to English? 

Si no has encontrado exactamente lo que estas buscando: 
Busca "cuss" en los forums de *WordReference. * Si aun así no encuentras la respuesta, pregúntalo tu mismo en el forum inglés-español.  *Te sorprenderás de lo amable que es la gente ahí. *


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## cuchuflete

Artrella said:
			
		

> Thx, Cuchufléte!!!!



Siempre es un placer ser de ayuda.  

Qxu


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## Artrella

curse, curse_word, expletive, oath, swearing, swearword,* cuss* 
   profane or obscene expression usually of surprise or anger; "expletives were deleted"  
  Category Tree:
abstraction
╚relation
╚social_relation
╚communication
╚auditory_communication
╚utterance; vocalization
╚profanity
╚curse, curse_word, expletive, oath, swearing, swearword, cuss 
B verb 
 1  curse, cuss, blaspheme, swear, imprecate

   utter obscenities or profanities; "The drunken men were cursing loudly in the street"  
  Category Tree:
express; verbalize; verbalise; utter; give_tongue_to
╚curse, cuss, blaspheme, swear, imprecate 




*Need more information?
Ask a question in the forum. *  Yes!! But Cuchuflète does not want to tell me!!! ja ja ja ja     

Look up "cuss" at Merriam-Webster
Look up "cuss" at dictionary.com


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## cuchuflete

Artrella said:
			
		

> *Need more information?
> Ask a question in the forum. *  Yes!! But Cuchuflète does not want to tell me!!! ja ja ja ja



You do seem to have the order upside down.  First you came into a thread, apparently without reading it--the answer to your question was easily available in the earlier posts--then you asked your question in the forum, and finally you successfully demonstrated that you could find the definition in the WR dictionary.  

No further comment or editorial opinion would add anything to the abundant  quality of this discussion, IMHO.

C-


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## cuchuflete

After a short hiatus to let people remember what the forums are about...this thread has been re-opened for posting.  If some of you wish to use it as a chat room, it will be closed again.
The WordReference forums are about language.  I had to argue pretty hard to keep the Culture Forum open.  This was a privilege we were granted subject to our using this forum to discuss culture, in any and all of its facets.  Idle chat can be had in thousands of other sites.  Not here, please!!!

We can include friendly comments in our posts, so long as we don't veer so far off topic that the topic is lost entirely.

Thanks,
Cuchu

PS- If you disagree, you may either PM me or object in public...in another thread, please.


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## modgirl

vic_us said:
			
		

> Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?



Speaking for American women, I can tell you with 100% accuracy:  ask ten different women and receive ten different answers!

It's completely individual.  It will be insulting and appalling to some.  Yet, it will be very much a turn-on and quite attractive to others.  

The best thing is not to assume that all women will react the same way.


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> After a short hiatus to let people remember what the forums are about...this thread has been re-opened for posting. If some of you wish to use it as a chat room, it will be closed again.
> The WordReference forums are about language. I had to argue pretty hard to keep the Culture Forum open. This was a privilege we were granted subject to our using this forum to discuss culture, in any and all of its facets. Idle chat can be had in thousands of other sites. Not here, please!!!
> 
> We can include friendly comments in our posts, so long as we don't veer so far off topic that the topic is lost entirely.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cuchu
> 
> PS- If you disagree, you may either PM me or object in public...in another thread, please.



Cuchu,

I don't disagree with what you said but I'd appreciate some clarification. 

First, sex and politics are sensitive issues. It's clear that both issues can be discussed in this forum. But how and when do you draw the line? What can be discussed and to what extent? For instance, I started to reflect on the issue of _turbación (pero más que eso)_. It has significant cultural connotations and implications but it's also a tricky topic. I don't want to start a thread and then have someone close it.  

Second, I'm not quite sure what the difference between a forum and a chat room is. I think that some type of back-and-forth dialogue needs to take place, even if at times it appears that we have lost our focus. After all, aren't we chatting, having a conversation, right? Otherwise, we would just post general things geared to everyone and to no one at the same time. 

Third, I also think that sometimes a good (or bad joke for that purpose) can help create a more relaxed environment so we avoid taking ourselves too seriously (it's the 11th commandment; apparently there wasn't room for an extra one on the second table or maybe someone decided arbitrarily that we needed an even number; but interesting enough years later someone from that same family liked number 12 better), even if that bad joke appears to derail the conversation (What I just did it but for illustration purposes only). 

Fourth, I have concerns about controlling the pathos of our conversation. In another thread, Marc and El Alambiano (I'm not quite sure I got his/her name right) got into a lovely Italian exchange of words. There was passion! I thought it was just wonderful. Question: Was the problem that they were chatting or that they were exchanging barbs? Or both? My humble opinion is that the only thing that should not be tolerated is swearing at someone else. Passion and intellectual rigor don't necessarily exclude each other. Otherwise, we could be imposing our own cultural values upon others. 

What do you think?


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## cuchuflete

I think common sense cannot be dictated.  If we wish to discuss language or politics or fútbol or any other aspect of culture, however broadly defined, that's ok.  If we want to be friendly and *include* personal comments in our posts, that too is fine.  When we slip into posts that are *only* personal comments, we need to stop and think whether we should be in a chat room or a forum of ideas.

I have publicly advocated the passionate presentation of ideas and arguments in this forum.  Look it up! as they say.  I do not advocate the "LOL" and 'see-ya' dialogues of chat rooms in this site.

The last thing I want to do is write a detailed rule book.  If it comes to that, we would be best served by closing Cultura entirely and limiting the foros to language only.  

You clearly want specifics, so here goes:  If you, or any other forero, uses a forum topic primarily as a pretext to ligar with another forer@, then you should do that as much as you please, but in PMs or in a chat room or emilios, but not in a forum of information and ideas.  If you wish to flirt a little in the course of a serious discussion, that may have its charm and be no source of concern to anyone.

As adults, we should each be able to know when we are behaving in a manner in keeping with the expectations of our surroundings.  

If you were to attend a symphoy concert at the Teatro Colón wearing only one sock and a G-string, you might claim to be making a statement of your intellectual freedom etc., but that would not enhance the musical experience of the other members of the audience, who presumably went there to listen to music!

Basta ya???


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> If you were to attend a symphoy concert at the Teatro Colón wearing only one sock and a G-string, you might claim to be making a statement of your intellectual freedom etc., but that would not enhance the musical experience of the other members of the audience, who presumably went there to listen to music!
> 
> Basta ya???



Busted! But for the record I was wearing sexy pantyhose, ok? 

Sí, ¡basta¡ ¡Suficiente es suficiente!


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## cuchuflete

Or, as my father used to say, "Too much is plenty."

And, yes, I fully expect you to retort and have 'the last word'.

Go for it mate!

Cuchu


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Or, as my father used to say, "Too much is plenty."
> 
> And, yes, I fully expect you to retort and have 'the last word'.
> 
> Go for it mate!
> 
> Cuchu



My life in this forum will continue to be informed by the principle that guides all the areas of my life, namely el *imperativo categórico kantiano*: "Procede de tal modo que la máxima de tu acción se convierta en principio de legislación universal". (Kant is soooo underrated).


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## lauranazario

vic_us said:
			
		

> Let's see if I understand you. Are you saying that
> a) _F**k me_ isn't moderate cursing or that
> b) It is immoderate cursing but acceptable when a woman is having sex with the man (or woman) she loves?



*Please don't put words on my lips*.... let's go back a bit.

In post #10 you asked:
Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?​
In post #11 I replied:
Are you referring to "sexual commands" like_ f**k me_ or something to that effect??? Do you consider that "moderate cursing"???
Otherwise, I would not understand why on earth one would swear at his/her partner during sex!!!!​
I did not say it was acceptable or not... I asked YOU what YOU regarded as "moderate cursing".... perhaps I should have made my question clearer to you (which is what I'm doing right now!)


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## vic_us

lauranazario said:
			
		

> *Please don't put words on my lips*.... let's go back a bit.
> 
> In post #10 you asked:Question for the ladies: Would some moderate cursing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?​In post #11 I replied:Are you referring to "sexual commands" like_ f**k me_ or something to that effect??? Do you consider that "moderate cursing"???
> Otherwise, I would not understand why on earth one would swear at his/her partner during sex!!!!​I did not say it was acceptable or not... I asked YOU what YOU regarded as "moderate cursing".... perhaps I should have made my question clearer to you (which is what I'm doing right now!)



Maybe it's difficult if not impossible to categorize swearing: moderate vs. excessive, for instance. It all depends what you say, when you say it, why you say it, to whom you say it, and how you say it. Too many variables! 

I'll rephrase the question: "Would swearing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?"


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## lauranazario

vic_us said:
			
		

> I'll rephrase the question: "Would swearing be acceptable during sexual intercourse or is it a no-no across cultures?"



I think swearing --in public, in private or in the bedroom-- is a matter of personal choice and not a "characteristic" that can be attributed to any particular culture.


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## vic_us

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am under the impression that gender roles in Spanish-speaking cultures are fairly more rigid than in my own (in the states). Often times, if I say something to my Spanish-speaking friends that is even somewhat "cuss-wordy" they get offended, and inform me that women don't speak that way.
> 
> This is so very different to my state-side girlfriends, whose mouths would make any man blush. True, I don't cuss in front of children, parents, or strangers, but I have noticed this trend with my Spanish-speaking male friends.
> 
> What do others think? I'd be interested to know.  Thanks all!



I went back to the original post. It implied that there were differences across cultures in terms of cussing, cursing, or swearing (putear in Argentine). It also implied that double standards based on gender were stronger in Spanish-speaking cultures than in the US when in comes to swearing, namely that it's ok for men to do it but not for women. It also implied that in some parts of the US women cuss more or at least as much as men (However, it was not clarified if they do it in front of everyone or mostly among other women). 

So far what I've learned is:

1) There appears to be some universal sanctions across cultures that make it more acceptable for men to swear. Could these double standards be rooted in sexism or what's left of it? Are we simply projecting our prejudices thus solidifying stereotypes?
2) Within particular cultures, women's practice of swearing or not swearing is informed by personal choices. However, the same thing could be said about men. So this conclusion is too general and not very helpful if we are trying to identify culturally-sanctioned differences in behavior. 
3) The most important thing I learned is that if your last name isn't Kinsey, don't ask women what they do or don't do in bed.


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> So far what I've learned is:
> 3) The most important thing I learned is that if your last name isn't Kinsey, don't ask women what they do or don't do in bed.



What I've learned is that the women who have posted in this thread prefer to keep some aspects of their respective private lives private.

My experience outside of this thread leads me to conclude that men are more likely to speak about their experiences in bed, but that one may have difficulties distinguishing fact from fiction from fantasy!

Is this also true in the cultural environment of La Argentina, or is it limited to linguistic/social expression in the US?
C-


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> What I've learned is that the women who have posted in this thread prefer to keep some aspects of their respective private lives private.
> C-



Mmmmm, I need to start using smileys in my posts (the closest thing to nonverbal language this cold means of communication gives us)


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> Mmmmm, I need to start using smileys in my posts (the closest thing to nonverbal language this cold means of communication gives us)



I cordially request your reply to the other two sentences in the cited post, replete with smileys!  

c-


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> My experience outside of this thread leads me to conclude that men are more likely to speak about their experiences in bed, but that one may have difficulties distinguishing fact from fiction from fantasy!
> 
> Is this also true in the cultural environment of La Argentina, or is it limited to linguistic/social expression in the US?
> C-



Right on the money! In cross-cultural studies terminology, that's etic (culture-general) and not emic (culture-specific)! I also heard another true etic statement made by a little girl about men in a show hosted by Bill Cosby: _*Men are pigs. *_Who said that kids aren't insightful?


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## Modérnica

vic_us said:
			
		

> So far what I've learned is:
> 
> 3) The most important thing I learned is that if your last name isn't Kinsey, don't ask women what they do or don't do in bed.



Right on the nose!!!!! So stop asking, okay?
Intelligent people won't divulge their bedroom secrets in public. And if they do, then this is the WRONG forum for that!


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## VenusEnvy

I am quite surprised how many "conversations" in the WR forum world turns so sexual, so quickly. The reason I had originally began this thread was due to a situation I had experienced. 

I was out at a club with my Spanish-speaking friends (this time, all guys). They would cuss, and cuss, and cuss! Perhaps they thought I didn't understand, but I did. They spoke particularly fast, and unclear, however, I still managed to understand most of it. Towards the end of the night, I said a word that was a little daring, but not extraordinarily vulgar,. Their eyes got wide, and they told me that words as such were only for men. 

I wish I remembered what the word was now . . .     

I just thought it was odd how they didn't seem to censure themselves terribly. But, when I said one little word, they all took notice. I guess I was a little taken aback because it wasn't as if they were strangers.

Oh well, I just wanted some opinions about women and cussing, not about habits in the bedroom.


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## vic_us

Modérnica said:
			
		

> Right on the nose!!!!! So stop asking, okay?



I suggest we start another thread. Topic: *Do all women boss men around or just women living in Spanish-speaking countries? *


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## vic_us

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am quite surprised how many "conversations" in the WR forum world turns so sexual, so quickly. The reason I had originally began this thread was due to a situation I had experienced.



Point taken, but have your realized that most swears are of a sexual nature? E.g.: fuck you, screw you, son of a bitch, blow me, fuck off, etc. etc. 

It's true that some men (I might be the only exception) just have one thing in mind and are prone to sexualize everything. But I hope you acknowledge that you might have unwittingly contributed to this outcome... Just for the record, I think it's a great topic (even if we declare the bedroom off limits for this discussion)


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> I suggest we start another thread. Topic: *Do all women boss men around or just women living in Spanish-speaking countries? *



And, as long as we have decided to open this new thread, to be titled:
Estereotipos, shall we also ask if the men regularly do something to deserve it?

How about the linguistic conventions of Italian and French females, when confronted by men making outrageous generalizations?  Are they not of interest to an anthropologist?

Face it Vic...you begged for the flogging, and eventually it came home to roost.

Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> Point taken, but have your realized that most swears are of a sexual nature? E.g.: fuck you, screw you, son of a bitch, blow me, fuck off, etc. etc.
> 
> It's true that some men (I might be the only exception) just have one thing in mind and are prone to sexualize everything. But I hope you acknowledge that you might have unwittingly contributed to this outcome... Just for the record, I think it's a great topic (even if we declare the bedroom off limits for this discussion)



Most swearing in English is about either of: sex; non sexual bodily functions
In Spanish speaking countries, you made add religion (¡ostias!) to the list.
In some Arabic speaking nations, Camels are often included in the most common oaths.

It seems in general that we blaspheme or make corrupted use of the things that matter a great deal to us.

Cuchu

PD- Yes Vic, we know that the other thing you have in mind is mending pottery, but I know at least three more men who share that passion!


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> PD- Yes Vic, we know that the other thing you have in mind is mending pottery, but I know at least three more men who share that passion!



I thought Jesus was a carpenter!


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## outerspace4:20

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am under the impression that gender roles in Spanish-speaking cultures are fairly more rigid than in my own (in the states). Often times, if I say something to my Spanish-speaking friends that is even somewhat "cuss-wordy" they get offended, and inform me that women don't speak that way.
> 
> This is so very different to my state-side girlfriends, whose mouths would make any man blush. True, I don't cuss in front of children, parents, or strangers, but I have noticed this trend with my Spanish-speaking male friends.
> 
> What do others think? I'd be interested to know. Thanks all!


 KOOL BEANS!!!!!!!


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## outerspace4:20

KOOL BEANS HOMMIES!!!!!!


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## Apus

vachecow said:
			
		

> Thats funny, we live so close, yet.......this doesn't really answer your question, but .......at least where I live, women don't curse. And when they do, men who curse all the time are shocked


 
Glad to hear that, *vachecow*. I'm ashamed to admit that I curse but I'm shocked when women curse! I must say that I curse only when angry, not to to emphasize every word like some Anglophones do. I once counted 19 cuss words in one minute of talking by a Canadian. Useless to say he was not the most refined guy in the country. I lived many years in the States but the people I associated with, men or women, were not the cursing kind.
In this European country women never used to curse, but now young women do, aping American ways. Or the ways of some Americans. Confounded television! (is that cursing?).


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## VenusEnvy

I'm not trying to get an answer out of American women as to whether or not they themselves cuss, or their friends do, *per se*. I am more curious as to why the Spanish-speaking men/boys are so completely adamant about women and their language. 

When I am out (at a club, bar, or at dinner) with my girlfriends, we speak frankly about men and our lives. We drink, we smoke (well, not me) we bitch (!) and brag, and we cuss at times. There's no pressure. It's just us girls, and no one cares. I am not sure as to the ages of all of the women who spoke up in this forum, but perhaps it's a generational thing? My friends range in age from 20-28 (ballpark). 

But, even on a night-on-the-town, when the mood is supposed to be fun, relaxed, and easy-going, I have just noticed that my language is watched constantly by Spanish-speaking men. (Maybe it's because _I'm_ the foreigner during those times.) I dunno, but it was something I wanted to hear about from native Spanish-speaking men, in particular.


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## beatrizg

The Colombian guys I know Venus, that is friends and relatives, have no problem with women cursing.


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## sergio11

Going back to the original post,



			
				VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am under the impression that gender roles in Spanish-speaking cultures are fairly more rigid than in my own (in the states). Often times, if I say something to my Spanish-speaking friends that is even somewhat "cuss-wordy" they get offended, and inform me that women don't speak that way.
> 
> This is so very different to my state-side girlfriends, whose mouths would make any man blush. True, I don't cuss in front of children, parents, or strangers, but I have noticed this trend with my Spanish-speaking male friends.
> 
> What do others think? I'd be interested to know. Thanks all!


 
1) I grew up in Buenos Aires and now live in Los Angeles, so that hearing anyone curse, whether man or woman, does not surprise me at all. People in both places have the same language whether male or female.  I don't find much difference between them.  Take into account that those I associate with because of my work (physicians, nurses, psychologists, etc.), have perhaps the filthiest repertoire of cuss words of all.  

2)  I grew up at a time when psychoanalysis was *THE* thing, so I know everything about Freud and his followers; the time of highest use of cuss words was right after they came back from a session of psychoanalysis.  Then it would slowly and very gradually tend to wear off over the next few days and jump right up at the next session. 

3) What makes people think that cursing is OK in either sex? Why would it be OK for men?  Would anyone think it pleasurable to eat from a garbage can, even if he or she is angry?  I find it disgusting in both groups.  I try, as much as possible, not to associate or talk with those people. Sometimes I have given up lucrative business opportunities just so I would not have to deal with people of the high cursing type. 

4) It is increasingly more difficult to stay away from it, though.  Even at church, many think it is "legalistic" to refrain from using cuss words. When I see my children watching movies with "strong" language (why do they call it "strong"? It would be more aptly defined as "weak," from people not being able to control themselves--yes, I know, you will cry "repression" for this last statement), the response I get is, "Come on, dad, everybody says it in normal conversation; it is not as if we didn't know the words." 

Someone else may think it is manly, heroic, cool, smart or "liberated" to use cuss words, but I fail to see it that way, and judging by the majority of the posts on this thread, my opinion will be a very unpopular one.  Anyway, for whatever it is worth, here it is.


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## vic_us

sergio11 said:
			
		

> Going back to the original post,
> 
> 
> 2)  I grew up at a time when psychoanalysis was *THE* thing, so I know everything about Freud and his followers; the time of highest use of cuss words was right after they came back from a session of psychoanalysis. Then it would slowly and very gradually tend to wear off over the next few days and jump right up at the next session.



Sergio, I liked most of what you said. However, I think that the correlation between psychoanalysis and cursing is a stretch. The decision to swear or not to swear, or even to swear selectively, is informed by a belief system or core values. Maybe the therapist would curse during the session and patients would follow suit. Maybe they would cuss because they felt they were being ripped off! Of course we can blame psychoanalysis (or Marxism) for many or all maladies in our beloved earth. But stating that a particular psychological or sociological theory or its application can increase one's cursing would be difficult if not almost impossible to prove.


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## sergio11

I guess you are right, I was not trying to formulate a theory; I just described my observations, much the way you would say "the tree was green" or "the car was red."


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## vic_us

sergio11 said:
			
		

> I guess you are right, I was not trying to formulate a theory; I just described my observations, much the way you would say "the tree was green" or "the car was red."



Sergio, maybe you and I need to reread _Civilization and Its Discontents_!


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## cuchuflete

sergio11 said:
			
		

> Someone else may think it is manly, heroic, cool, smart or "liberated" to use cuss words, but I fail to see it that way, and judging by the majority of the posts on this thread,* my opinion will be a very unpopular one.* Anyway, for whatever it is worth, here it is.



Sergio--
It is certainly popular with me.  My reasons were stated much earlier in this discussion.  Language becomes meaningless and fails to communicate when it is overused with no specific intent.  

Further, I agree that strong language is a misnomer for people doing either or both of
--whatever everybody else tends to do
--whatever requires the least effort, that is, not bothering to take the trouble to select the words that articulate something more specific than a grunt.

I do sometimes curse, with a specific intent, or in a powerful emotional outburst.  The former is arguably a use of strong language.  The latter is a use of weak language.

Thanks for your ideas,
Cuchuflete


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## sergio11

vic_us said:
			
		

> Sergio, maybe you and I need to reread _Civilization and Its Discontents_!


 
Actually, vic_us, I have not read it ever. It will be a first for me.  Although I don't have the time, I'm game. I'll try to read it slowly, in whatever spare time I can find.  I already ordered it on line.

Cuchuflete, I am glad that you agree with me. Thanks for the encouragement.


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