# أريد قراءةَ كتابا



## ErsinM

أريد قراءةَ كتابا
أريد القراءةَ كتابا

In the second sentence, there is "حرف التعريف".
Thank you..


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## Romeel

هما مختلفتان 

أريد قراءة كتابٍ (This mean I want to read a book)

أريد القراءة (This mean I want to read) / أو/ أريد القراءة من كتابٍ (This mean I want to read from a book)

بالتوفيق


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## ErsinM

alialikhalid said:


> هما مختلفتان
> 
> أريد قراءة كتابٍ (This mean I want to read a book)
> 
> أريد القراءة (This mean I want to read) / أو/ أريد القراءة من كتابٍ (This mean I want to read from a book)
> 
> بالتوفيق


Thank you brother..


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## Romeel

You are most welcome


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## elroy

To be perfectly clear:


ErsinM said:


> أريد القراءةَ كتابا


This one is incorrect.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> This one is incorrect.


Do you have a reason for this? I tried finding one because I too found it awkward and not quite right, but after a short while of thinking about it I realized that it could be مصدر عامل and كتابا is it’s مفعول به. The simple condition of it being replaceable by the verb applies: أريد أن أقرأ كتابا.

The reason we feel it’s wrong may be because المصدر العامل المعرف بال is not common and we are used to المصدر المضاف إلى عامله. Of course, I still might be wrong if there is a rule I missed or forgot.


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> أريد أن أقرأ كتابا


This corresponds to أريد قراءة كتابًا, not أريد القراءة كتابًا.  The definite article makes a difference.

By the way, I believe (and I think @Mahaodeh does too) that both أريد قراءة كتابٍ and أريد قراءة كتابًا are correct, because قراءة can be analyzed as a regular old noun or as a مصدر عامل عمل الفعل.


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## AzteK72

Mahaodeh said:


> Do you have a reason for this? I tried finding one because I too found it awkward and not quite right, but after a short while of thinking about it I realized that it could be مصدر عامل and كتابا is it’s مفعول به. The simple condition of it being replaceable by the verb applies: أريد أن أقرأ كتابا.
> 
> The reason we feel it’s wrong may be because المصدر العامل المعرف بال is not common and we are used to المصدر المضاف إلى عامله. Of course, I still might be wrong if there is a rule I missed or forgot.





> Do you have a reason for this? I tried finding one because I too found it awkward and not quite right



Perhaps you felt this way (I’m not a native speaker of Arabic so I can't appreciate the akwardness) because one of the cases whereby you can إعمال المصدر is when المصدر المحلى بأل but هو الأقل استعمالا. Example المخلص شديد الحب وطنه


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## Meerana

You can't say أريد القراءة كتابا . You have to say أريد قراءة كتابا . If you want to add ال التعريف, you have to delete the word كتابا


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## WadiH

I don't understand how أريد قراءة كتاباً could be correct; it's an idhaafah (genitive) structure so should be أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ.  The noun قراءة can act like a verb and take an object but it would need to have a pronoun attached to it, e.g. من الجيّد قراءتُهم كتاباً.


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## Meerana

WadiH said:


> I don't understand how أريد قراءة كتاباً could be correct; it's an idhaafah (genitive) structure so should be أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ.  The noun قراءة can act like a verb and take an object but it would need to have a pronoun attached to it, e.g. من الجيّد قراءتُهم كتاباً.


I'm not talking about fusha, I'm taking about general Arabic. That we as Arabs speak Arabic using dialects, so in this case أريد قراءة كتاب أو كتابا , both are correct. If you are a writer or an Arabic professor then you have to use Standard Arabic which is Fus7a, otherwise both are correct, but you can't say أريد القراءة كتابا , with the article ال whether in standard Arabic or dialect Arabic.


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## Mahaodeh

I’m not aware of any dialect that still retains تنوين الفتح, if any one does I’d be very interested in knowing which one.

I’m also confused about the term “general Arabic”, I don’t know what that means.


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## Meerana

Mahaodeh said:


> I’m not aware of any dialect that still retains تنوين الفتح, if any one does I’d be very interested in knowing which one.
> 
> I’m also confused about the term “general Arabic”, I don’t know what that





Mahaodeh said:


> I’m not aware of any dialect that still retains تنوين الفتح, if any one does I’d be very interested in knowing which one.
> 
> I’m also confused about the term “general Arabic”, I don’t know what that means.


Well, as dialects, we don't use تنوين and we don't use the whole sentence in this way. Instead of saying أريد قراءة كتاب  or أريد قراءة كتابا  , you will have many dialects. Egyptians say: عايز اقرأ كتاب.
Syrians say: بدي أقرأ كتاب
Saudi people say: ابغى اقرأ كتاب
Yemeni say: اشتي أقرأ كتاب
Kuwaities say: أبي اقرأ كتاب.
And etc. so all these sentences are examples of different kinds of dialects in Arabic, yet you can use them and you can use a standard Arabic which is called "Fus7a" . Fus7a is not used when we talk to each other because it is old and formal and it's used for academic purposes or mostly in chanel news, books, newspapers etc. People in the past used to use it too when they were talking with each other, but now we use dialects. It's ok to use  Fus7a when you talk since we will understand you and we will understand that you are an academic person, forginer, or a religious one.


General Arabic means any kind of  Arabic words, or sentences that are understood and used and not necessarily to be standard.


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## WadiH

Meerana said:


> I'm not talking about fusha, I'm taking about general Arabic. That we as Arabs speak Arabic using dialects, so in this case أريد قراءة كتاب أو كتابا , both are correct. If you are a writer or an Arabic professor then you have to use Standard Arabic which is Fus7a, otherwise both are correct, but you can't say أريد القراءة كتابا , with the article ال whether in standard Arabic or dialect Arabic.



The thread is about FusHa, and as you said no dialect would say كتابا or even use the structure أريد قراءة كتاب, so I don't see how any of this is relevant to the discussion.



Mahaodeh said:


> I’m not aware of any dialect that still retains تنوين الفتح, if any one does I’d be very interested in knowing which one.



The only example is the native use of adverbials like أبْداً, لَزْماً in bedouin dialects, but that's different from the example in this thread where it's used to mark the case of a noun.


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## Mahaodeh

WadiH said:


> The only example is the native use of adverbials like أبْداً, لَزْماً in bedouin dialects


I thought of Bedouin dialects, but adverbials did not cross my mind, I just thought of regular nouns but they use تنوين الكسر not الفتح.


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## Mahaodeh

Meerana said:


> It's ok to use Fus7a when you talk since we will understand you and we will understand that you are an academic person, forginer, or a religious one.


I’m a native Arabic speaker. I do know what a dialect is and I am aware of the differences between them and fus7a.


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## WadiH

Mahaodeh said:


> I thought of Bedouin dialects, but adverbials did not cross my mind, I just thought of regular nouns but they use تنوين الكسر not الفتح.



Correct.  The tanwiin is not marked for case.  It's just there to connect words together and feel good.  (I honestly don't know what the function of it can be called technically)


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## Meerana

WadiH said:


> The thread is about FusHa, and as you said no dialect would say كتابا or even use the structure أريد قراءة كتاب, so I don't see how any of this is relevant to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> The only example is the native use of adverbials like أبْداً, لَزْماً in bedouin dialects, but that's different from the example in this thread where it's used to mark the case of a noun.


Oh sorry, I didn't see in the title the word "Fus7a" or standard Arabic. I just saw 2 examples one that can be used in our language and one can't be used, so I tried to help. That's it. If the platform itself is all about Fus7a, then I will be more careful about such an issue.


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## Mahaodeh

The platform is not just about fus7a, but usually if no dialect is mentioned in the title then it is fus7a.


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## WadiH

Meerana said:


> Oh sorry, I didn't see in the title the word "Fus7a" or standard Arabic. I just saw 2 examples one that can be used in our language and one can't be used, so I tried to help. That's it. If the platform itself is all about Fus7a, then I will be more careful about such an issue.



No, sorry for the misunderstanding, you can talk about any type of Arabic on this forum or even on this thread.  I just meant it was clear from the context that we were talking about FuSha with this particular example.


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## rarabara

Hi, 
I overviewed all of comments and think that this option might also be a correct selection:

أريد قراءة الكتاب  

or maybe one another option be like:

 أريد أن أقرئ الكتاب/كتاب

note: I only made prediction(s). Thanks for confirmation or corretions if available


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,

Some time ago, I opened a thread with a similar example here: أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ كُرَةَ القَدَمِ



WadiH said:


> I don't understand how أريد قراءة كتاباً could be correct; it's an idhaafah (genitive) structure so should be أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ.  The noun قراءة can act like a verb and take an object but it would need to have a pronoun attached to it, e.g. من الجيّد قراءتُهم كتاباً.


In the thread I mentioned above, there were two opinions (accusative and genitive).

Apparently some of those who think that the noun can be in the accusative consider that in both cases (accusative and genitive) there is an annexation. Which implies that the mudhaaf ilayh could be in the accusative...

But I did not find a grammar course that mentioned that the mudhaaf ilayh could be in the accusative... That's why for the moment, I would use only the genitive case for the mudhaaf ilayh like you : أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ this structure would correspond to the case 4 أن يضاف إلى المفعول ولا يذكر الفاعل (see message   #15 for the list of structures).

Similarly I would use this sentence  أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ *كُرَ**ةِ* القَدَمِ rather than this one: أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ *كُرَ**ةَ* القَدَمِ ...



WadiH said:


> I don't understand how أريد قراءة كتاباً could be correct;


Maybe it could be correct if we consider that قراءة كتاباً is not an annexation, in this case the masdar would be an indefinite noun : أريد قراءةً كتاباً

In the other thread I was also wondering if the sentence أُرِيدُ لَعِباً كُرَةَ القَدَمِ was correct ...

I had posted this message (about the cases where the masdar is undefined or defined by article al) in the other thread:



Ibn Nacer said:


> Salut,
> 
> The cases where the masdar is mudhaaf are known but the cases where the masdar is undefined or defined by article al are rarer but I found these examples :
> 
> إِطْعَامٌ فِي يَوْمٍ ذِي مَسْغَبَةٍ يَتِيماً
> عَجِبْتُ مِنْ ضَرْبٍ عَمْراً زَيْدٌ
> بَلَغَني القَتْلُ مَحْمُودٌ أَخَاهُ
> 
> There are also examples in this passage :
> 
> عمل المصدر واسمه:
> المصدر أَصل الفعل، ولذلك يجوز أَن يعمل هو واسم المصدر عمل فعلهما في جميع أحواله:
> 
> 1- مجرداً من ((ال)) والإضافة، مثل (أَمرٌ بمعروف صدقة، وإِعطاءٌ فقيراً كساءً صدقة) فالجار والمجرور (بمعروف) تعلقاً بالمصدر (أَمرْ) لأَن فعله (أَمر) يتعدى إلى المأْمور به بالباءِ، و(إعطاءُ) المصدر نصبت مفعولين لأَن فعلها ينصب مفعولين.
> 
> 2- مضافاً مثل: أَعجبني تعلُّمك الحسابَ. فـ(الحساب) مفعول به للمصدر (تعلم) والكاف مضاف إليه لفظاً وهو الفاعل في المعنى.
> 
> 3- محلى بـ((ال)) مثل: *ضعيف النكايةِ أعداءَه*. فـ(أعداءَ)مفعول به للمصدر (النكاية).
> 
> Source : الموجز في قواعد اللغة العربية


In this passage, there is particularly these examples which contain an object : عَجِبْتُ مِنْ ضَرْبٍ عَمْراً زَيْدٌ and إِعطاءٌ فقيراً كساءً صدقة...

What do you think ?



Mahaodeh said:


> The reason we feel it’s wrong may be because المصدر العامل المعرف بال is not common and we are used to المصدر المضاف إلى عامله. Of course, I still might be wrong if there is a rule I missed or forgot.


Indeed it seems that the use of the masdar defined by the article Al is more rare ... (the article Al is a characteristic specific to the noun).  There are examples in the passage that I posted above: 

1- *بَلَغَني القَتْلُ مَحْمُودٌ أَخَاهُ*
2- محلى بـ((ال)) مثل: *ضعيف النكايةِ أعداءَه*. فـ(أعداءَ)مفعول به للمصدر (النكاية)


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,



rarabara said:


> Hi,
> I overviewed all of comments and think that this option might also be a correct selection:
> 
> أريد قراءة الكتاب


Yes, this structure is the same as the one used in the sentence : أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ...

The difference is that the word "book" is defined in your example ...

This structure would correspond to the case 4 أن يضاف إلى المفعول ولا يذكر الفاعل (see message   #15 for the list of structures).





> أولاً : المصدر العامل المضاف وهو أكثر حالات المصدر عملاً وله خمسة أحوال :
> 
> 1 ـ أن يضاف إلى فاعله ثم يأتي مفعوله ، نحو قوله تعالى : {  ولولا دفع الله الناس بعضهم ببعض لفسدت الأرض } 251 البقرة .
> 2 ـ أن يضاف إلى مفعوله ثم يأتي فاعله ، وهو قليل ، ومنه قوله تعالى : { ولله على الناس حجُ البيتِ من استطاع إليه سبيلاً } 97 آل عمران .
> ونحو : معاقبة المهملِ المعلمُ .
> 3 ـ أن يضاف إلى الفاعل ثم لا يذكر المفعول به ، نحو قوله تعالى : {  وما كان استغفار إبراهيم } 114 التوبة . والتقدير : استغفار إبراهيم ربه .
> 4 ـ أن يضاف إلى المفعول ولا يذكر الفاعل ، نحو قوله تعالى : {  لا يسأم الإنسان من دعاء الخير } 49 فصلت . والتقدير : من دعائه الخير .
> 5 ـ أن يضاف إلى الظرف ، فيرفع وينصب كالمنون . نحو : أعجبني التقاء يوم الخميس اللاعبون مدربيهم .
> فاللاعبون فاعل للمصدر التقاء ، ومدربيهم مفعول به له .
> 
> Source : الفصل الثاني - المصادر


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## Abu Talha

Here is Wright's treatment of the topic:




vol. ii, section 27, p. 57

Based on this it seems that أريد قراءةً كتابًا is unacceptable. Only أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ seems acceptable for the indefinite masdar right before the object.

However, the following looks like it would be ok: أريد قراءةً في المكتبةِ كتابًا

Also, أريد القراءةَ كتابًا , although sounding somewhat unnatural, would seem correct according to how the rule is presented. Perhaps the following sentence will be more acceptable: فرغتُ من القراءةِ كتابًا ?


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## Romeel

rarabara said:


> Hi,
> I overviewed all of comments and think that this option might also be a correct selection:
> 
> أريد قراءة الكتاب
> 
> or maybe one another option be like:
> 
> أريد أن أقرئ الكتاب/كتاب
> 
> note: I only made prediction(s). Thanks for confirmation or corretions if available


أريد قراءة الكتاب 

 أريد أن أقرأ الكتابَ 

 أريد أن أقرأ كتاب 
 أريد أن أقرأ كتاباً (Because أقرأ is a verb)


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## Romeel

Ibn Nacer said:


> Salut,
> 
> Some time ago, I opened a thread with a similar example here: أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ كُرَةَ القَدَمِ
> 
> 
> In the thread I mentioned above, there were two opinions (accusative and genitive).
> 
> Apparently some of those who think that the noun can be in the accusative consider that in both cases (accusative and genitive) there is an annexation. Which implies that the mudhaaf ilayh could be in the accusative...
> 
> But I did not find a grammar course that mentioned that the mudhaaf ilayh could be in the accusative... That's why for the moment, I would use only the genitive case for the mudhaaf ilayh like you : أريد قراءةَ كتابٍ this structure would correspond to the case 4 أن يضاف إلى المفعول ولا يذكر الفاعل (see message   #15 for the list of structures).
> 
> Similarly I would use this sentence  أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ *كُرَ**ةِ* القَدَمِ rather than this one: أُرِيدُ لَعِبَ *كُرَ**ةَ* القَدَمِ ...
> 
> 
> Maybe it could be correct if we consider that قراءة كتاباً is not an annexation, in this case the masdar would be an indefinite noun : أريد قراءةً كتاباً
> 
> In the other thread I was also wondering if the sentence أُرِيدُ لَعِباً كُرَةَ القَدَمِ was correct ...
> 
> I had posted this message (about the cases where the masdar is undefined or defined by article al) in the other thread:
> 
> In this passage, there is particularly these examples which contain an object : عَجِبْتُ مِنْ ضَرْبٍ عَمْراً زَيْدٌ and إِعطاءٌ فقيراً كساءً صدقة...
> 
> What do you think ?
> 
> 
> Indeed it seems that the use of the masdar defined by the article Al is more rare ... (the article Al is a characteristic specific to the noun).  There are examples in the passage that I posted above:
> 
> 1- *بَلَغَني القَتْلُ مَحْمُودٌ أَخَاهُ*
> 2- محلى بـ((ال)) مثل: *ضعيف النكايةِ أعداءَه*. فـ(أعداءَ)مفعول به للمصدر (النكاية)


شروط عمل المصدر

إقرأ المزيد على سطور.كوم: شروط عمل المصدر   سطور


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## Abu Talha

@Ibn Nacer the sentence you listed إِعطاءٌ فقيراً كساءً صدقة seems to not conform to the rule presented by Wright. So if this is acceptable, then so should أريد قراءةً كتابًا ?


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,



Abu Talha said:


> @Ibn Nacer the sentence you listed إِعطاءٌ فقيراً كساءً صدقة seems to not conform to the rule presented by Wright. So if this is acceptable, then so should أريد قراءةً كتابًا ?


Yes that's what I thought but maybe the rule* (presented by Wright) concerns only the simply transitive verbs (He said "_If only *the* objective complement of the act...* it *is put after... ...unless* it* be separated..._") ?

Another possibility : the rule* says "._..unless it be separated from the nomen actionis *by one or more words*," _so maybe the first object (فقيراً) can be considered as a word that separates the masdar (إِعطاءٌ) from its (second) object (كساءً) ?

But it's not certain because there is a passage (in the same book) devoted to doubly transitive verbs ...

The problem is that I have not seen this rule yet in other grammar courses and the examples seem rare (sometimes the same examples are found in several different courses).

Thanks to anyone who knows a course that mentions this rule (if possible with examples) to give us a reference ...

*


> If only the objective complement of the act (and not likewise its subject) be expressed, it is put after the nomen actionis in the genitive*; unless it be separated from the nomen actionis by one or more words, in which case it is put in the accusative, because the genitive can never be divided from the word that governs it.


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## Abu Talha

Thank you @Ibn Nacer


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## Romeel

Ibn Nacer said:


> Salut,
> 
> 
> Thanks to anyone who knows a course that mentions this rule (if possible with examples) to give us a reference ...
> 
> *



I tried to understand your question but I couldn't! Is it possible to write your question in Arabic?


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## Ibn Nacer

Salut,

Abu Talha posted a passage from a book (see #24                    ), this passage mentions a rule. I wanted to know if someone knows another book that confirms this rule...


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