# хохляцкa, хохлы, хохол (!)



## cyaxares_died

Что такое "хохляцкa"?
Kак я встретила это слово в контексте "самогонь  хохляцкой" я думаю что это какой-то алкоголичный напитаок -но какой точно?


----------



## DaryaA

It means Ukranian (slang)


----------



## IGGor

Ukrainian home-brew


----------



## Lovely R

хохлятский (хохляцкий? I'm not sure about the spelling) - Ukrainian
хохол - a Ukrainian (ethimology - from custom of shaving head except for single tuft of hair - by Andrew Goff, Multitran Dictionary)


----------



## Kolan

cyaxares_died said:


> "самогон хохляцкий" я думаю что это какой-то алкогольный напитаок -но какой точно?


Самодельная украинская горилка (40 градусов) - в лучшем случае, или более крепкий и хуже очищенный напиток (домашней выгонки).

"хохляцкий" - пренебрежительное название всего украинского (характерно для бытового расизма).


----------



## Panda Nocta

cyaxares_died said:


> Что такое "хохляцкa"?
> Kак я встретила это слово в контексте "самогонь  хохляцкой" я думаю что это какой-то алкоголичный напитаок -но какой точно?


Talking to a stranger, you ought to entirely avoid using this word and its derivatives unless you intend to insult him/her. The reason is, it can sound pretty offensive.


----------



## marmotte-frangita

The ukranians who are sometimes called as "хохлы" by the Russians, for ex., thay have also a nice word for the last ones, "москали" , which means "the habitants of Moscow", with the same slighting meaning. But! I`d like to notice that often it has same humorous connotation, especially with some "самогон"!!! So...i`d better not be too serious as the previous correspondents, but in general, in theory they are right. See you context to be sure!


----------



## Q-cumber

Panda Nocta said:


> Talking to a stranger, you ought to entirely avoid using this word and its derivatives unless you intend to insult him/her. The reason is, it can sound pretty offensive.



I second that.


----------



## Darina

Moderator note: The following posts were moved from this thread.



Natabka said:


> Cyaxares_died, hi!
> Now, that's a funny question. In Ukraine we use "москалі" referring to all the Russians when we want to be rude and somewhat despising - like saying "Nigers" about black people (probably, not a good example). In their turn, Russians would call us "хохлы". But I have no idea about the etymology
> 
> P.S. It's "Київ"/Kyiv in Ukrainian, so people from there are called "кияни".


 
About the etymology of hohol, see:
http://www.protobulgarians.com/Statii%20za%20prabaalgarite/Hohol%20-%20hohlandia.htm

It is in Bulgarian. Basically, it says that hohol comes from the typical hairdress of the Cossacks which reminds a snake. The author tryes to derive the word by comparative analysis of similar words in several languages. Hohol (or similar words in Protobulgarian _хъхол, хала, еtc._, Ossetian, Pushtu, Sanskrit and other Indo-European languages) means exactly a snake.


----------



## Maroseika

Darina said:


> http://www.protobulgarians.com/Statii%20za%20prabaalgarite/Hohol%20-%20hohlandia.htm


"В санскрит _gadhaā_, протоиндоирански _gaudhāh _– змия. Тези думи стоят близо до руското _гадюка"._

Yesss...


----------



## Darina

Maroseika said:


> "В санскрит _gadhaā_, протоиндоирански _gaudhāh _– змия. Тези думи стоят близо до руското _гадюка"._
> 
> Yesss...


 
Let's hope that the Ukrainians will not get offended!


----------



## cyaxares_died

"Hohol (or similar words in Protobulgarian _хъхол, хала, еtc._, Ossetian, Pushtu, Sanskrit and other Indo-European languages)..."

So you mean that xoxol meaning snake still has cognates in modern Ossetian or Pashto, Darina? Can you name them? I just tried to look up the word "snake" in onnline dictionaries but did not find anything easily resembling "xoxol".


----------



## Darina

I am not a specialist in these languages but here is what I understood:
The author compares the Ossetian _xylag _(and derivatives _хilаg, хе__lаgе,_ _хе__lun_)and the Sanskrit - _gadhaā _with the Protobulgarian хала, хъхол. 
The example with Pashto is different. Sorry for the misleading! The author's goal is to compare different Protobulgarian words for snake, lizard, dragon, serpent, etc. (ламя, гущер, краса...) with words in other languages in order to prove Pamirian influence on the Bulgarian language. For example: one word for snake in Pashto - _arxax_ is similar to Yaghnobi - _argunč__ok, _Sanskrit- _uraga_, Bulgarian-_угъръ,_ etc. . No conection with hohol.


----------



## Maroseika

Darina said:


> Let's hope that the Ukrainians will not get offended!


I'm sure they will not, because Russian гадюка originates from гад < Protoslavic *gadъ (disgusting animal) relating to Lith. gė́da, Anc.-Pruss. gīdan (shame), M.-Germ. quât, Nith. kwaad (wicked), Germ. Kot (dirt), etc...


----------



## Natabka

Darina said:


> Let's hope that the Ukrainians will not get offended!



I think that they could. Anyway, this thread was meant for discussing ethymology of another offensive word for nationality rather than "хохол", wasn't it? 
What I want to say is that this kind of investigations never were and never will be completely objective and emotionless, so we'd better not let ourselves be carried away by discussing articles or other works of a kind.
And I can't see the point of going into the roots of Proto Indo-European languages, since most probably the negative connotation of the word "хохол" (haircut style) appeared in Russian during the recent centuries. On the other hand, the word "москаль" could be used by Ukrainians referring to Russians at that time because Moskva was probably the first big city that would come to mind or because most of Russians in Ukraine were from that city. I suppose that these words acquired the negative meaning mentioned just in these two languages.

Just for the record: the translation of "хохол" into Ukrainian sounds "чуб, чуприна" (it is the amount of hair just above the forehead in men). As for haircut of the Cossacks, it looks different from "чуб" and we call it "оселедець" (herring)


----------



## Darina

Natabka said:


> And I can't see the point of going into the roots of Proto Indo-European languages...


 
I can see it very well. Similar haircut was worn by the Indian Brachman caste and they called it "sikha", "chuda", "choti" or "kuduma". It was typical for the Bulgarians from 5th (or may be earlier) to the end of 19th century. We call it "кика", "хохол", "чумбас" or "перчем".


----------



## Natabka

Darina said:


> I can see it very well. Similar haircut was worn by the Indian Brachman caste and they called it "sikha", "chuda", "choti" or "kuduma". It was typical for the Bulgarians from 5th (or may be earlier) to the end of 19th century. We call it "кика", "хохол", "чумбас" or "перчем".



That's okay, but I've made this comment when in the thread of etymology of "москалі" .


----------



## Darina

Natabka said:


> That's okay, but I've made this comment when in the thread of etymology of "москалі" .


 
I understand. 

The word hohol seems to be ancient and definetely not "invented" by the Russians.


----------



## Natabka

Darina said:


> The word hohol seems to be ancient and definetely not "invented" by the Russians.



I agree with that, Darina. But, probably, it has acquired that one despising meaning in Russian. How about "москаль"  then? (In the other thread) 
I was quite sure that this was purely Ukrainian invention, so the comments about turkish suffixes really surprised me.


----------

