# سكني (gray/grey)



## elroy

Hi guys,

In Palestinian Arabic, سكني ("sakani") is the most common way to say "gray."  رمادي ("ramaadi"), which I understand is the word used in many dialects, is used as well, but less commonly.

I have two questions:

Is سكني used in other dialects (to mean "gray," not "residential" )?
Does anyone know what the etymology might be?

Thanks!


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## yasmeena

It is رمادي in Lebanon and Syria, and سكني in Jordan. 

I've just learnt that grey may be spelled 'gr*a*y'. Thanks


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## xebonyx

yasmeena said:


> I've just learnt that grey may be spelled 'gr*a*y'. Thanks


 
Must be a BE difference because in AE we spell it "gr*a*y". Even though I've noticed "grey" popping up here and there.

What about the word أشيب in MSA? Does that only refer to hair?(whitish gray)?


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## suma

xebonyx said:


> What about the word أشيب in MSA? Does that only refer to hair?(whitish gray)?


 
Gray-haired, only I would think.


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## cherine

If you haven't say it's grey/gray, it wouldn't have occured to me that it means so ! 
This color, in Egypt, is either:
romaadi/ramaadi رمادي (the color of ash)
roSaaSi رصاصي (the color of lead)
gray (yes, the English word), and some of the Francophone among us use the French "gris".


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## elroy

Thanks for your answers.

So does anyone know anything about the etymology?


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## Talib

I am curious about the etymology too but don't have any ideas. The first word that came to mind was سكينة but I seriously doubt there's a relation!


cherine said:


> If you haven't say it's grey/gray, it wouldn't have occured to me that it means so !
> This color, in Egypt, is either:
> romaadi/ramaadi رمادي (the color of ash)
> roSaaSi رصاصي (the color of lead)
> gray (yes, the English word), and some of the Francophone among us use the French "gris".


I use رمادي but I didn't know there was a word for lead-coloured. Is this word limited to Egypt or does it exist in other dialects (or even MSA)?

Oh and I use the spelling "grey" but I'm a Canadian.


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## elroy

We use رصاصي in Palestinian Arabic.

I believe "gray" is used only in American English.  All other varieties of English use "grey" exclusively.


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## Mahaodeh

In IA they only use رصاصي, but in fus7a Iraqis generally use رمادي; I think they believe that the former is collequal or something .

Back to سَكَنِي; in Jordan they refer to الرماد as سَكَن; also, Lisaan Al Arab says that السَكَن is one of the names of the fire because الناس تَسْكُنُ إليها; so maybe by سَكَنِي they mean رَمَادِي.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> So does anyone know anything about the etymology?


 According to Lisan Al-Arab:
*السكن*"as-sakan" means "campfire".As you know that campfire always leaves ashes(ramaad).So, it could be derived from the color of ashes".


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## djara

In Tunisia, it is رصاصي (rSaaSi) or the French "gris". In the south we use أشخم (ashkham). I even heard أزرق (the normal word for blue) used for grey, but that's extremely rare.


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## suma

ayed said:


> According to Lisan Al-Arab:
> *السكن*"as-sakan" means "campfire".As you know that campfire always leaves ashes(ramaad).So, it could be derived from the color of ashes".


 
I'm always pleasantly surprised how so many seemingly colloquial words can be traced back to something in Classical Arabic.


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## elroy

That should hardly be a surprise.  It is one language, after all.   In fact, the vast majority of words used in colloquial Arabic are related to MSA words.

Thanks, Maha and Ayed, for the etymology.


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## ayed

Very welcome , Elroy.The funny thing is that I didn't pay attention to Maha's answer.Had you , Elroy, not mentioned her name, I wouldn't know.My own fault.


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## psxws

Does السكن as in campfire have anything to do with the root سكن as in to reside? Maybe with the idea that people lived around campfires?

May be stretching it, much.

Also, both grey and gray are acceptable to some point in American English, though gray is nearly universally used. They vary a little in connotation, with grey being used more positively than gray.


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## djara

psxws said:


> Does السكن as in campfire have anything to do with the root سكن as in to reside? Maybe with the idea that people lived around campfires?
> 
> May be stretching it, much.


I don't think this is far-fetched. In French the word "foyer" means both "fire" and "household"


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## The NorthStar of Hope

Well, in Saudi Arabia we say "Ramadi" however there are very few people who say it RoSassi...


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## psxws

yeah, and hearth comes from fire "Old English _heorþ_, from West Germanic *_xerþaz_, from Proto-Germanic *xer- (“‘burn, fire’”), from Proto-Indo-European *ker- (“‘heat; fire’”)." and is also used as a symbol of the home.


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## elroy

psxws said:


> They vary a little in connotation, with grey being used more positively than gray.


 I do not sense a difference in connotation.  "Grey" is simply a rarer spelling in American English.  There's not much more to it.


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## psxws

You're probably right, as people tend to use either one or the other. I said that because I read somewhere that grey was more common poetically. Maybe not true? hard to quantify


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## Mahaodeh

psxws said:


> Does السكن as in campfire have anything to do with the root سكن as in to reside? Maybe with the idea that people lived around campfires?
> 
> May be stretching it, much.


 
No, it's not streching it at all ; actually, that's what I understood from Al Lisaan.


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## Faylasoof

Hi all,
I've come late to this but here is what I found about   سكن/ سكني  / (gray / ashes / fire / ease & quiet / dwelling:

سكن (sakan) = fire

و سَكَنٍ تُوقَدُ في مِظَلّة
And a fire kindled in a hair-cloth tent / shed  
  - from a rajaz poem.

أقامَهَا بِسَكَنٍ و أدهَانْ
He straightened it with fire and oils   

سكن (sakan) = ashes 

سَكَنِي (sakani)=  ashen, ash-gray  

… but its morphological (though _not _phonological) homologue 

سُكْنَي (sukna)= dwelling, stay, sojourn. 

داري لك سُكْنَي  /  لك داري هٰذِهِ سُكْنَي

[My house is for you]

… and 

دارٌ فيها سَكَنْ \ سُكْنْ  = A house in which is a dwelling place = A rent-free lodging.
 
 سكن  (sakan) = (maskan) مسكن dwelling, abode, habitation.

سكن (sakan) = Anything on which one relies and places trust; to be /become quiet in mind, be /become at ease.

جَعَلَ ٱلَّيلَ سَكناٌ  [He has made / appointed the night for ease and quiet – al-Quran 6:96]


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## elroy

Wow, thanks, Faylasoof! 

I'm glad I opened this thread.  Now I can defend my use of سكني with pride!


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## Faylasoof

Glad to be of help, elroy! 

Isn't Arabic a wonderful language! Amazing connections I keep finding out.


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