# Galician: Days of the week



## Roi Marphille

Hi, 
I'm confused about the names of the days of the week in Galician. I've been told that they are like in Castilian but I'm wondering if there is also a "Portuguese alike" option.
Or maybe it depends on the zone..?  
Saúde, 

Roi


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## Outsider

Apparently, there used to be, but they have been replaced with Spanish-derived names.


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## Roi Marphille

Outsider said:
			
		

> Apparently, there used to be, but they have been replaced with Spanish-derived names.


that's what I feared..


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## Enlasarenas

¡Saúdos!

En la actualidad, tanto en el gallego hablado y fomentado desde la normativización de la Xunta de Galicia (que en muchos casos sólo lo hablan ellos mismos) como en el habla popular, me atrevería a decir que el 99% de los galaicoparlantes se refieren a los días de la semana por sus nombres castellanos, aunque bajo el influjo de las reglas fonéticas y ortográficas del gallego:

luns, martes, mércores, xoves, venres, sábado e domingo.

Unha aperta,

Antonio


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## oscarlami

The names of the days of the week were imposed by the Romans in Galicia and Portugal. These names referred to the Roman gods: DIES SOLIS, DIES LUNAE (vulg. DIES LUNIS), DIES MARTIS, DIES MERCURI (vulg. DIES MERCURIS), DIES JOVIS, DIES VENERIS e DIES SATURNI.

When these peoples became Christians most them changed Die Solis for Die Domine (Day of the Lord, Sunday,  Domingo) and Dies Saturni for Sabbatum (Saturday, Sabado), but they kept the rest of the “roman gods” it their week.

The Portuguese singularity was caused by S. Martinho de Dumio (515?-580) when Galicia and Portugal were the same country under the Suevian rule (Gallaecia)

S. Martinho, in the Sixth century, changed those names to get rid of the pagan implications of this system, but the success was only partial, as the old names had been around for at least 300 years.

The new system consisted in changing the remaining roman gods in the week for numbers. As Die Domine (Domingo) was Market day (Feira), Monday would be second Market day (segunda feira) and so on.

There are evidence that the two systems coexisted for a long time in the old Gallaecia. Maybe because S. Martinho had more influence in the south of Gallaecia  and that southern part later became Portugal is the reason why Portuguese use this system instead of the Galician one.

Suggesting, as Antonio said in a previous message, that these names are of Spanish origin is, therefore, absolute nonsense. 


Saude,


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## Outsider

oscarlami said:
			
		

> There are evidence that the two systems coexisted for a long time in the old Gallaecia. Maybe because S. Martinho had more influence in the south of Gallaecia  and that southern part later became Portugal is the reason why Portuguese use this system instead of the Galician one.


What do you mean, 'the Galician one'? Galicia used the *same* naming system than Portugal until a few generations ago.



			
				oscarlami said:
			
		

> Suggesting, as Antonio said in a previous message, that these names are of Spanish origin is, therefore, absolute nonsense.


Your 'therefore' does not follow. None of your arguments refute the Spanish origin of the present names of the names of the week in Galicia.


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## oscarlami

Dear Outsider:

As I said in the previous post, *both systems coexisted * for a long time. For some reason in Galicia we adopted the (luns, martes, mercores....) system. But they coexisted. Some old people in Galicia still remember using both systems, specially in the Verin area.

I'll explain my “therefore”. If you read the post we are talking about the existence of this week names from the II to the VI century. The system existed before the Spanish language was born. It is of Latin origin. Unless you suggest that Latin is a Spanish influence. You never know!

Saudos,


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## Outsider

Hello, Oscarlami.



			
				oscarlami said:
			
		

> As I said in the previous post, *both systems coexisted * for a long time. For some reason in Galicia we adopted the (luns, martes, mercores....) system.


I don't think the reason is difficult to guess...



			
				oscarlami said:
			
		

> But they coexisted. Some old people in Galicia still remember using both systems, specially in the Verin area.


Which is why calling the "luns, martes, etc." system "_the_ Galician system" is inappropriate.



			
				oscarlami said:
			
		

> I'll explain my “therefore”. If you read the post we are talking about the existence of this week names from the II to the VI century. The system existed before the Spanish language was born. It is of Latin origin.


That's true. As a matter of fact, I've read that even in Portugal the "lunes, martes, etc." system was once used, centuries ago.

However, as you say, all of that happened a long, long time ago. It seems possible that such a system:

1) Was used for a while in Galicia in the early Middle Ages.
2) Was then abandoned altogether in favour of the "-feira" system for several centuries.
3) Was reinstated more recently, under the influence of Spanish.

In light of this possibility, I do not think it is "absolute nonsense" to say that the current system is of Spanish origin.


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## Roi Marphille

óla a tudos!

I see there is such a debate down here!

Once I have read all posts I may set my position closer to Outsider's. Thus, Oscarlami is well documented but there are some points that should be clarified: 

- Roman system was the first one adopted in Galicia. Everybody agrees with that. Both systems coexisted, everybody agrees too. But it seems that the Roman one was abandoned and they took the Portuguese-alike system. True?

*If *it certainly happened this way, that would mean that the re-instauration of the Roman system would had probably been originated because of Castilian influence rather than the original root. As, everybody knows that Castilian has had a big influence to Galician language and it probably changed the way nowadays-Galicians speak comparing their ancestors. 

There is also the other probability, that the Roman system was never abandoned and Galicians just kept it and spread it while "killing" the other one. 

I must confess however, my 1000km-away-ignorance on this or that fact. 

Saúde, 

Roi


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## Outsider

I should make clear that I do not know which of those two possibilities is true, either. 
One thing we do know, however: that Galicians used a nomenclature like the current Portuguese one, until the recent past (perhaps alongside a Spanish-like nomenclature). This answers your initial question.


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## Samo

(dies) dominica, dies Solis, feria primadies Lunae,feria seconda dies Martis, feria tertia            dies Mercurii,feria quartadies Jovis,feria quintadies Veneris,feria sexta dies Saturni,feria septima,feria sabbatumWe can see the Spanish and modern Galego words as well as Portuguese and old Galego words.


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## panjabigator

I'm reviving quite an old thread here!  Would Galicians understand the nomenclature used in Portugal?


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## ulala_eu

I'm from Galicia and I can tell you that maybe some people from South Galicia could understand the Portuguese (primeira-feira, segunda-feira, terça...) system, but I'm sure it would sound relly strange for someone from the North. Anyway, it's true that some old people remember that system, but nowadays, only those who speak _galego reintegracionista _use it. Short explanation: _reintegracionistas_ = people who use a Galician language closer to the Portuguese way of writing and vocabulary than to the Spanish one.
So, I believe we are now too used to the luns, martes, mércores... system for anybody who doesn't speak Portuguese to understand the terça, quarta... system.


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## Fluteroo

ulala_eu said:


> I'm from Galicia and I can tell you that maybe some people from South Galicia could understand the Portuguese (primeira-feira, segunda-feira, terça...) system, but I'm sure it would sound relly strange for someone from the North. Anyway, it's true that some old people remember that system, but nowadays, only those who speak _galego reintegracionista _use it. Short explanation: _reintegracionistas_ = people who use a Galician language closer to the Portuguese way of writing and vocabulary than to the Spanish one.
> So, I believe we are now too used to the luns, martes, mércores... system for anybody who doesn't speak Portuguese to understand the terça, quarta... system.


Eu non son galego mas poso responderche que nós os falantes de Portugués e Castelán sabemos cais palavras fazen parte do bugallo que o Carballo Galego apañou durante os séculos escuros, cousa que a própria mocidade galega ignora e inda que che semelle extraño o xeito de escreber dos integracionistas, a crise na lingua atinxe directamente o teu futuro como galego. non é xusto limitar o acervo galego ao Castrapo e é tarefa da tua xerazon recuperalo. na miña condizon de falante de Inglés na Australia, agradezo aos que fizeran tal esforzo cando estoutra lingua saiu dos seus séculos escuros, aló da dominazon normanda, e arrestora desfrutamos dun tesouro lexical que sobreviveu a crise, o galego foi o berce da lusofonia e debe recuperar o que perdeu. Desculpa as eivas coas que estou escrebendo nesta lingua milenária e imortal. O mellor que podes fazer é seguer remexendo nestas leiras que no sonche alléias. Nem Castrapo nem Lusismo, Galego Completo!                                                                  I apologize to the readers who may miss my words, they are my humble best in Galego, a passionate defense of its Historic Revival that I might translate myself should the need arise.


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## ulala_eu

Querido Fluteroo:
Eu non digo que me pareza estraña a forma de escribir dos reintegracionistas, entendo o porqué e comparto algúns dos seus ideais; de feito, estou a favor de que se recuperen formas antigas ou lusistas de certas palabras que hoxe en días se empregan na forma castelá (dicir _parafuso_ no lugar de _tornillo_ ou _tesoira_ no lugar de _tixeiras_). Con todo, tamén creo que hoxe en día hai certas palabras que están demasiado enterradas xa na linguaxe cotía como para cambialas, como é o caso dos días da semana ou de certos obxectos (sei que se falase dunha _estilográfica_ o meu pai non me entendería, pero si o faría ó falar dun _bolígrafo_). A min xa me ten pasado de estar a falar con xente da miña idade que fala galego e ter que traducirlles unha palabra ó castelán porque non a entenden (como _parafuso_, por exemplo). Para finalizar, volvo dicir que o reintegracionismo me parece unha opción moi pensada e interesante, pero que a recuperación do galego debería partir do consenso con tódolos ideais existentes e non tentando probar que unha opción (a luso-brasileira, reintegracionista ou como a queiras chamar por unha banda, e o galego normativo ou do ILG pola outra) é mellor que outra.


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## Fluteroo

Oscarlami, en su intervención en inglés aquí, me convence de que nadie tiene la razón absoluta, y de que por ejemplo, lo de los días de la semana, son un alarde de un extremista despistado y no tengo ningun despacho en nunca más usar el calendario de San Martiño cuando intente hablar y escribir el Gallego en adelante, espero que el haber leido mi intento de escribir el Gallego en cualquiera de sus normas, te haga saber de que me interesa y apasiona tu lengua y tu cultura que aprendí a respetar en mi ciudad de nacimiento, la más gallega del mundo, Buenos Aires y si yo pude sentarme a escribirte en Gallego, tú bien puedes seguir diciéndole parafuso a tus amigos, cada palabra que no digas, sera una menos que le dejes a tu futuro, te pasearía por mi lengua diaria, el inglés y te haría compartir la alegría de ver lo que debe ser el Gallego Completo del futuro, mi lista de palabras irreconciliables va creciendo a medida que sigo investigando pero lo que insisto, es que el dueño de esa lista eres tú y que te cabe achicarla, sin verguenza ni pudores y a ver si se dejan de mover los indicadores que los peregrinos de internet en vez de tener marcado el camino como los que iban a Compostela, vamos y venimos y cada gallego apasionado mueve cada señal según su postura. Yo cuando llegue al roble gallego, que rebrote con verdes y lozanas hojas sin dejar de lucir con orgullo las cicatrices de su historia, lo sabré reconocer y lo abrazaré y ustedes siguen pasando delante de él sin notarlo. Y estoy cansado de descartar una palabra por consejo de un gallegito moderno y volverla a encontrar a la semana, de la pluma del mismísimo Castelao. Preparade o botafumeiro Galegos! Nós os peregrins da Internet estamos chegando e de tanta norma, ciume e protagonismo vaidoso temos os pes que feden.


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## jazyk

> I'm from Galicia and I can tell you that maybe some people from South Galicia could understand the Portuguese (primeira-feira, segunda-feira, terça...) system,


Primeira-feira doesn't exist in Portuguese. Do you mean domingo?


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## ulala_eu

jazyk said:


> Primeira-feira doesn't exist in Portuguese. Do you mean domingo?


 
Ups!  You're right. I don't even know why I put primeira-feira. Sorry!


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## XiaoRoel

En zonas rurais da Galiza aínda se conservan algús nomes para os días da semana de _raigame cristiá_ (que foron os que triunfaron no portugués), como *quinta* e _sexta_. Nos textos medievais profanos predominan os _nomes paganos_ do galego moderno. Nos textos relixiosos alternan os cristiáns cos paganos.
Noutro orde de cousas, o amigo de Sidney ten moita razón no que di. O outro día íamos un amigo e máis eu (ambos os dous cultos, lidos, sabidos e entendidos) pola rúa, aquí en Vigo, e cruzámonos cun coñecido, obreiro da Citroën, de non moita cultura que estaba varado de pé a mirar para un sinal de tráfico que prohibía estacionar. Cando o saúdamos, constatamos a súa cara entre perplexa e apenada. Cando lle preguntamos o porqué, díxonos con entre mágoa e vergoña que non entendía o texto que había en galego debaixo do sinal. O letreiro indicaba as horas da prohibición e contiña a palabra *agás*, 'excepto', ben galega e para nada semellante ao español. Cando lle aclaramos o tema, aliviouse algo pero moi tristeiro díxonos algo que nos apretou o corazón: "_Xa…, esta é unha desas palabras *que nos roubaron*_". E marchou coa cabeza baixa rúa abaixo, como vencido da vida.
Si, amigo de Sidney. Roubáronos grande parte do patrimonio espiritual como pobo (aínda que moito sobreviviu á outra beira do Miño no portugués), por iso moitos de nós estamos no labor de recuperalo, aínda que o nacionalismo español fai todo o posíbel para que isto non suceda, ou suceda dunha maneira descafeinada o máis lonxe do portugués posíbel e o máis perto do español que acaden. 
A perda de falantes nos últimos anos é arrepiante (pasamos dun 95% no 1920 a un 60% no 2008, e só a un 20% nos menores de 30 anos, case todos de zonas urbanas, xa que o rural está despoboado de xuventude). 
O tema é serio e a recuperación dun espacio de dignidade en libertade para a lingua e a cultura está a ser torpedeado mesmo desde dentro da Galiza. 
Un saúda desde a terra de nós,
Xiao Roel.


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