# commute, commuting, commuter



## إسكندراني

السلام عليكم
هل تعرفون لهذه الكلمة مقابلا عربيا؟ ومعناها المقصود عندي هو المعنى المعتاد وهو
*السفر من وإلى مكان العمل أو الدراسة*
وتشير إلى مفهوم ارتياد المكان يوميا لغرض العمل أو الدراسة (فقط، وليس للترفيه مثلا ولا للتسوق) ومنها اشتقت مصطلحات عديدة
commuters
commuter town
commute time
إلخ
في انتظار اقتراحاتكم ​


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## salsabeel

ممكن "انتقال"


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## Abu Talha

وعليكم السلام
لا أدري مصطلحا يفيد المعنى المقصود ولكن لو خضنا في استحداث تعبير جديد فما رأيك في السير اليومي أو الأسبوعي أو ، عمومًا ، الاطرادي؟
مثلا:
سيري اليومي خمسة أميال.


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## إسكندراني

شكرا لإجابتكما الاستفسار
لكن كيف إذا نقول 
commuter town
وهو المصطلح المستعصي علي ترجمته

للعلم فالسائرين يقصدون أشغالهم اليومية
تلك الجملة مفهومة بالنسبة لعامة الناس على ما أظن​


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## Crimson-Sky

السلام عليكم 
Wikipedia says the equivalent of "commuter town" in Arabic is بلدة تابعة.


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## Crimson-Sky

If I'm not abusing "commuter town" could also mean "ضاحية" ; "ضاحية" has some of the characteristics of "commuter town".


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## cherine

I thought about ضاحية too, but I'm not sure.

I don't think we have an Arabic term for commuting, and all its derived words/forms, unfortunately. We'd need to find an equivalent that could be as close as possible.
For example, for commuting time, maybe زمن المواصلات or الوقت الذي تستغرقه المسافة (though it's a bit too long).


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## إسكندراني

Yes, I think this is a term that MSA lacks.
I am willing to go as high as two words in an إضافة  but no higher
The best I have right now is ارتياد الأشغال. Like 'travel' or 'journey', سفر or ترحال are a bit different.
سير may be the best we can come up with for now... But we must be missing something.


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## cherine

To me, ارتياد الأشغال means going to work. It doesn't mention anything about commuting.
سير is about walking, so I wouldn't use it either.

MSA _and_ dialects lack this because we simply don't have the same urban structures as in Europe and USA. This is why I suggested looking for something that can come as close as possible. Here in Alexandria, there are workers who come from as far as other cities. _Every_ day. If this is not commuting, I don't know what it is. But we still don't have a special word for it. They/we don't even say باسافر الشغل or باسافر البيت بعد الشغل . They just come and go like everyone else باروح الشغل الصبح واروَّح آخر النهار.


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## Abu Talha

Would something like الغُدُوّ والرواح work or is it too out there?

commute time/distance مسيرة الغدو والرواح
commuters السائرون غدوا ورواحًا

مسيرتي ذات الغدو والرواح ساعتان يوميا


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## Crimson-Sky

Maybe we should go for "ضاحية" (about "commuter town") and here's a reason : The equivalent of the word "commuter" in French is "banlieusard" (banlieusarde for feminine), "banlieusard" comes from the word "banlieue" which means "ضاحية" in Arabic.(in a direct way).


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## cherine

Crimson-Sky said:


> Maybe we should go for "ضاحية" (about "commuter town") and here's a reason : The equivalent of the word "commuter" in French is "banlieusard" (banlieusarde for feminine), "banlieusard" comes from the word "banlieue" which means "ضاحية" in Arabic.(in a direct way).


Yes, I agree with this.
And in Egypt, we also have المدن الجديدة for the new towns built at the borders of older ones. Specially in Cairo and Alexandria.


Abu Talha said:


> Would something like الغُدُوّ والرواح work or is it too out there?


It is a bit out there, because الغدو والرواح is simply coming and going, but in fuS7a. Even if there's an extra connotation to it, it's lost in MSA.


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## إسكندراني

It's interesting that French lacks this word too (it seems they improvised a solution which is associated with the place rather than the act).
The issue for me is one of clearly defining terms which are considered quite distinct by geographers and urban planners. Egyptian cities, like all other modern cities, have commuters. And commuter towns. And it's normal to have commuters come from over an hour away from a different city.
But how do we Arabise these terms separately?
ضاحية = suburb 
غير موجود = suburban (لا توجد نسبة لكلمة ضاحية في نطاق الاستخدام الحالي)
حضر = urban area
حضري = urban
مدينة جديدة = new town
مدينة تابعة is actually my own improvisation (I edit wikipedia) but it seems to be a more suitable translation for 'satellite town' - which may actually have almost no commuters; some satellite towns are quite independent.

A commuter town is a nearby town (not necessarily new) which has become almost totally dependent on the major urban centre nearby for work. It is not a suburb because it lies outside the main urban area. A commuter town for Cairo might be Banha. 
_'an urban community that is primarily residential, from which most of the workforce commutes out to create their livelihood.'_

A commuter is someone who travels within their city or to another city to and from work or education daily.

Commuting is the act of going to or from work. Some people commute on foot, in New York some even commute by small aeroplane. Most commute by car, cycle or public transport. The minimum amount of time for what we can call a commute might be fifteen minutes.

I am not too concerned if we don't find an equivalent for this 'commuter town', because we can tactfully avoid it. My concern is that we have no word for commuting at all. It's important for planners to discuss commute times, commuter routes, commuting trends, etc.
Maybe we can see how the French get round this issue?


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## cherine

إسكندراني said:


> My concern is that we have no word for commuting at all. It's important for planners to discuss commute times, commuter routes, commuting trends, etc.


We do have زمن الانتقال/المواصلات and طُرُق الانتقال (or simply الطرق) and وسائل المواصلات السائدة . Why can't we use these? 


> Maybe we can see how the French get round this issue?


And what is the French get round for this?


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## إسكندراني

طرق is not sufficient; they handle different types of traffic ضغط مروري including
* Transport of Goods نقل البضائع
* Intercity Travel السفر بين المدن
* Tourists 
* and Commuters السير إلى الأشغال؟

About French, I meant that it apparently has no verb 'to commute' ...


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## Vivemafille

I have the Wordreference translation for the verb "to commute" (يسافر). Any suggestions for the noun "a commute"? 
Example:
I have a very long commute, 75 minutes.
My commute is very long. 

Google Translate gives this:
لدي اجتياز مسافة طويلة.
تخفيف بلدي طويل.


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## PlanC

إسكندراني said:


> It's interesting that French lacks this word too (it seems they improvised a solution which is associated with the place rather than the act).


la navette > Faire la navette *
Faire le va-et-vient
le *même trajet* quotidien...
....
I don't now if we could cast the meaning (referred by the second link*) to the arabic, so it will also go along  تلك الأداة (ان وجدت طبعا) و المستعملة  في النسيج التقليدي (sorry I didn't found the arabic appelation yet).
For the moment and to answer your main question maybe you could use:  التردد (عن مكان ما) , ذهابا وإيابا, التكرار (السفر / الطريق المتكرر), ...الخ
Update
للاشارة فقط : 
إن عملية الـ: Commuting يكمن تأويلها على أنها : ارتحال يومي (بين مكان الإقامة و مقر العمل) و هو مفهوم مختلف تماما عن التجوال
Commuter:متنقل يومي (من و الى عمله)’ا
to Commute: يتنقل يوميا


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## Vivemafille

Thanks for helping me out! (And I learned a new French expression, too. I already knew "faire la navette.")


PlanC said:


> la navette > Faire la navette *
> Faire le va-et-vient
> le *même trajet* quotidien...
> ....
> I don't now if we could cast the meaning (referred by the second link*) to the arabic, so it will also go along  تلك الأداة (ان وجدت طبعا) و المستعملة  في النسيج التقليدي (sorry I didn't found the arabic appelation yet).
> For the moment and to answer your main question maybe you could use:  التردد (عن مكان ما) , ذهابا وإيابا, التكرار (السفر / الطريق المتكرر), ...الخ
> Update
> للاشارة فقط :
> إن عملية الـ: Commuting يكمن تأويلها على أنها : ارتحال يومي (بين مكان الإقامة و مقر العمل) و هو مفهوم مختلف تماما عن التجوال
> Commuter:متنقل يومي (من و الى عمله)’ا
> to Commute: يتنقل يوميا


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