# Usage of ma'am



## CKH

Good day,I would like to ask if ma'am is still used today in addressing women.

Second what if the person addresses you this way: Good morning Lina ma'am xx?

Do you think this person is from the U.K.?

Thanks!


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## suzi br

Hello

I think this is pretty rare in general UK social circles. It still has use in some professional contexts. I think the police still use it for senior females staff (they do on TV cop-dramas!)
Possiblly it is used for the Queen, but I've never spoken to her myself. 

If “Lina” is a name, I would never expect to see it teamed with a name that way.


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## andrewg927

Yes. We still use ma’am.


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## suzi br

andrewg927 said:


> Yes. We still use ma’am.


In America.


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## andrewg927

That surprises me.


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## suzi br

andrewg927 said:


> That surprises me.


What surprises you?


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## dojibear

"Lina ma'am xx"? What is the "xx" here?

In the military "ma'am" is the required form of address for a superior officer who is female.

I think it are used in normal society too (in the U.S.). Since I'm male, I am not sure how common it is.


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## andrewg927

That you rarely use ma’am in the UK because it is very common in the US.


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## suzi br

andrewg927 said:


> That you rarely use ma’am in the UK because it is very common in the US.


I see. 
Yes, i would say that we don’t have an easy way to be polite to women. 
Sir is still very common, in a vast array of contexts.


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## CKH

dojibear said:


> "Lina ma'am xx"? What is the "xx" here?
> 
> In the military "ma'am" is the required form of address for a superior officer who is female.
> 
> I think it are used in normal society too (in the U.S.). Since I'm male, I am not sure how common it is.


I think it is like love or kisses.


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## CKH

suzi br said:


> Hello
> 
> I think this is pretty rare in general UK social circles. It still has use in some professional contexts. I think the police still use it for senior females staff (they do on TV cop-dramas!)
> Possiblly it is used for the Queen, but I've never spoken to her myself.
> 
> If “Lina” is a name, I would never expect to see it teamed with a name that way.


So the person is not from the UK.
This person says he is in another country for around 5 years.

Another thing do the British pay attention to tense?
Like this person typed in the chat box like this: You are having angels voice.


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## sound shift

I have never said "ma'am" in my life. I've never met the Queen and I have never been in the police force.


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## CKH

sound shift said:


> I have never said "ma'am" in my life. I've never met the Queen and I have never been in the police force.


What if you live abroad? Let's say around 5 years?


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## velisarius

So I take it that what you really want to know is whether the person who wrote that is a native speaker of BE?


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## boozer

I address my boss that way. She is an ambassador. And, more importantly, a woman.


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## CKH

velisarius said:


> So I take it that what you really want to know is whether the person who wrote that is a native speaker of BE?


If the person is from the U.K. the thing is this person is living abroad in South Africa for around 5 years, I also noticed his grammar.


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## velisarius

You (if you are an adult) don't lose your competence in your native language in five years. Only the accent may change a little (or a lot).


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## Loob

CKH said:


> Another thing do the British pay attention to tense?
> Like this person typed in the chat box like this: You are having angels voice.


The person who wrote this may live in the UK, but he is not a native speaker of English.


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## CKH

velisarius said:


> You (if you are an adult) don't lose your competence in your native language in five years. Only the accent may change a little (or a lot).


Like this person said' You are having angels voice'.
I understand sometimes when you type there will be a few mistakes but this sentence structure.
Maybe this person's English wasn't that good before and now he converses with them it got worse?


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## CKH

Loob said:


> The person who wrote this may live in the UK, but he is not a native speaker of English.


He said his father is and he lived in the UK now he is in South Africa for around 5 years.


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## boozer

CKH said:


> If the person is from the U.K. the thing is this person is living abroad in South Africa for around 5 years, I also noticed his grammar.





velisarius said:


> You don't lose your competence in your native language in five years. Only the accent may change a little (or a lot).



A 'foreign' environment could affect your accent and vocabulary, but 'grammar' is generally a firmly fixed structure particularly resistant to change. And then, I do not think the grammar of SA English is so deplorable as to immediately affect your BE grammar. In fact, it is the same.  It has done nothing to my grammar so far.


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## natkretep

There is also another context where _ma'am_ is prevalent. Where I am, it is not unusual for families to have foreign domestic help, and _ma'am _is the conventional term of address to the mistress of the house. Sometimes, it is pronounced like _mem _(rather like _mem sahib_ in the Indian subcontinent historically.)


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## CKH

boozer said:


> A 'foreign' environment could affect your accent and vocabulary, but 'grammar' is generally a firmly fixed structure particularly resistant to change. And then, I do not think the grammar of SA English is so deplorable as to immediately affect your BE grammar. In fact, it is the same.  It has done nothing to my grammar so far.


Congrats to you!
Maybe his grammar wasn't that good back then?
He typed like this: You are having angels voice.


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## Loob

That's not what you told us before, CKH. The "an"  makes a difference.

.....

Note: this was responding to the unedited version of post 23, which gave the quote as "You are having an angels voice".


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## CKH

Loob said:


> That's not what you told us before, CKH. The "an"  makes a difference.


I made a mistake there so I edited my reply.
He said you are having angels voice.


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## andrewg927

velisarius said:


> You (if you are an adult) don't lose your competence in your native language in five years. Only the accent may change a little (or a lot).



Only if you really try to learn a new accent. It’s really not that easy.


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## andrewg927

CKH said:


> Good day,I would like to ask if ma'am is still used today in addressing women.
> 
> Second what if the person addresses you this way: Good morning Lina ma'am xx?
> 
> Do you think this person is from the U.K.?
> 
> Thanks!


 
I think it is nearly impossible to know where a person is from just based on one or two sentences. But as you stated that he said he is British English, I’m not sure what you were trying to ask when you already knew an answer.


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## Loob

The fact that he is British and lives in the UK doesn't necessarily make him a native speaker of BrE, CKH.

The use of the continuous "you are having" is reminiscent of Indian English. Use of "ma'am" may also be a feature of Indian English: I don't know.


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## CKH

CKH said:


> Congrats to you!
> Maybe his grammar wasn't that good back then?
> He typed like this: You are having an angels voice.





CKH said:


> I made a mistake there so I edited my reply.
> He said you are having angels voice.


Of course you use an before words that start with vowels and has vowel sound.


Loob said:


> The fact that he is British and lives in the UK doesn't necessarily make him a native speaker of BrE, CKH.
> 
> The use of the continuous "you are having" is reminiscent of Indian English. Use of "ma'am" may also be a feature of Indian English: I don't know.


I appreciate your response.
Thanks a lot!


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## CKH

andrewg927 said:


> I think it is nearly impossible to know where a person is from just based on one or two sentences. But as you stated that he said he is British English, I’m not sure what you were trying to ask when you already knew an answer.



He also typed You are having angels voice.
I guess he is not British after all.


Loob said:


> The fact that he is British and lives in the UK doesn't necessarily make him a native speaker of BrE, CKH.
> 
> The use of the continuous "you are having" is reminiscent of Indian English. Use of "ma'am" may also be a feature of Indian English: I don't know.


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## Keith Bradford

CKH said:


> ...
> He said you are having angels voice.


In that case he is certainly not a native English speaker (from whatever country).  British speakers would say "You have the voice of an angel."


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## CKH

Keith Bradford said:


> In that case he is certainly not a native English speaker (from whatever country).  British speakers would say "You have the voice of an angel."


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## CKH

CKH said:


>



I also don't want to say that he wanted to type something else but didn't delete the first part of his message.


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## CKH

Thanks for your responses!


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## tulipword

Hello There. I have never used it but many say that "Yes Ma'am" is a sign of politesse. Can it be used in work and Business? If yes, what should be the answer if someone says it to you?


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## heypresto

Not here in the UK. It would either be taken as sarcasm or sycophancy. Either way, it won't go down well.


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## Hermione Golightly

It is not used in British English. I don't expect to be addressed as anything. It's a sign of subservience in some way. The habit of calling men 'Sir' should stop too.


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## prudent260

heypresto said:


> Not here in the UK. It would either be taken as sarcasm or sycophancy. Either way, it won't go down well.





Hermione Golightly said:


> It is not used in British English. I don't expect to be addressed as anything. It's a sign of subservience in some way. The habit of calling men 'Sir' should stop too.




When I was in the Philippines, they addressed me and my wife as SIR and MA'AM all the time.
If you were at a hotel front desk, how should the receptionist address you, not using Ma'am?


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## heypresto

You asked about using 'ma'am' in work or business. We don't do that.

A posh hotel's receptionist might address you as 'sir' and 'madam', _not _'ma'am', but I suspect most hotel receptionists will just say 'Hello', or 'Good morning/afternoon'.


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## lingobingo

I agree with both of heypresto’s comments.


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## prudent260

heypresto said:


> You asked about using 'ma'am' in work or business. We don't do that.
> 
> A posh hotel's receptionist might address you as 'sir' and 'madam', _not _'ma'am', but I suspect most hotel receptionists will just say 'Hello', or 'Good morning/afternoon'.




Thank you.


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## Hermione Golightly

The posh hotel should use your title and name. Thereafter they might use Madam, if need be which in my experience is never.


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## Andygc

"Madam" is certainly still used in BE. I've heard it in hotels, shops and restaurants. "Ma'am, however, is rarely used in those environments and if so it is usually pronounced wrongly. It is used in the military and when addressing the Queen,  when it is pronounced to rhyme with "jam", not with "arm". I understand from family members who are serving police officers that they use it sometimes. Police dramas on television usually struggle with the pronunciation, but that should be no surprise as they usually get everything else wrong as well.


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## kentix

It's routinely used in some parts of the U.S. in those sorts of formalish contexts and definitely rhymes with jam. Despite how it's written, it's a short, one-syllable word. When I say "routinely" I don't necessarily mean continuously, all day long, but it would not be out of place if and when it was used properly. For instance, in a waiting room at a car service shop, the person who works there might catch someone's eye in the waiting room and say, "Ma'am, your car is ready."


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## tulipword

Thank you All for your quick answers.


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## Steven David

CKH said:


> Good day,I would like to ask if ma'am is still used today in addressing women.
> 
> Second what if the person addresses you this way: Good morning Lina ma'am xx?
> 
> Do you think this person is from the U.K.?
> 
> Thanks!




Generally, people use "ma'am" in the States if they don't know a woman's name. For example, someone might address a woman as "ma'am" in a store or at a place of business.

If someone knows a woman's name, then they are not likely to use "ma'am". To express politeness or social distance in a given circumstance, people would use Miss, Mrs., or Ms. ("Miz") and then the woman's last name.

Other than this, I would say it depends on the region of the United States and local customs. So the frequency with which "ma'am" is used, I would say, has something to do with location in the States.

Things could be more formal or less formal depending on where you are.

I apply the same guideline to "sir".

Other than as expressions of politeness or social distance with people we do not know, I would say that "ma'am" and "sir" are not normally part of everyday speaking in the United States.

I think a butler might call his employer "ma'am" or "sir".

Other than something like this, and what I posted above, it's not a normal part of everyday speaking, for the most part, in the United States. But, then again, this could depend on local customs, as well.


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## Roxxxannne

What does a BE speaker call out if she wants to get the attention of a gray-haired woman whose scarf is dragging on the ground?  The scarf-dragger is not facing the noticer so waving and pointing will not work.
In the US I'd say "Ma'm [or Miss]! Your scarf ... " 'Miss' is ridiculous for a woman who's middle-aged or more.


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## lingobingo

We call out: Excuse me!!


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## Roxxxannne

Ah well, Americans may use oddly polite words, but we are not known for asking other people to excuse us.


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## prudent260

heypresto said:


> A posh hotel's receptionist might address you as 'sir' and 'madam', _not _'ma'am'



Is it correct to say Madam or Ma'am? - Quora
*'“Madam” is not used at all in American English. As a common noun, not a term of address (“a madam”) it is the word for a woman who is in charge of a house of prostitution, and that is the association that most people now have with the word,' *comments a native speaker on the above thread.

Does what she says make sense to you?

So around the world, is it safer to address someone as Miss and Mister, as Sir and Ma'am imply seniority and Madam carries a negative connotation in some places?


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## Hildy1

Addressing a woman as "Madam" and saying that she is "*a* madam" are different. 

The first is very formal and not commonly used in American English, though some people working in shops etc. may say it.

As for the second... well, most people do not ordinarily have the occasion to use it.


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## velisarius

_I don't like Sylvie much either; she's a right little madam, she is._

In colloquial BE, a spoiled little girl or rude and demanding young woman might be termed "a little madam". 
madam (noun) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary


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## ewie

Roxxxannne said:


> Ah well, Americans may use oddly polite words, but we are not known for asking other people to excuse us.


Obviously _Excuse me!_ doesn't mean "Excuse me!" ~ this is British English we're talking about.


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## lingobingo

From a UK standpoint, you would never address a man as Mister (it would sound offensive and/or condescending), and I think only female schoolteachers are (or used to be) addressed as Miss. In business establishments, especially hotels and restaurants, the staff might well address customers as Sir or Madam, but Ma’am is not used (see #9, #12, #36, #37, #39). And the word madam means a woman who runs a brothel, but that doesn’t mean you would address a ‘madam’ that way.


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