# ulappa



## Gavril

Päivää,

I’m curious about the precise meaning of _ulappa_. In the following pairs, would it be accurate to describe the second location as “ulappa” in relation to the first one?

_Hevossalmi : Itämeri_

_Pohjanlahti : It__ämeri_

_Itämeri : Pohjanmeri_


Also, can _ulappa _be used metaphorically, perhaps in contexts like the following?

_Tämä työympäristö on liian holhoavaa minulle: haluanpa ulapalle!_

_Joskus masentunut ihminen kuvaa tunnettaan näin, että hän olisi ulapalla._


Kiitos ja hyvää maan päivää


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## Hakro

Gavril said:


> I’m curious about the precise meaning of _ulappa_. In the following pairs, would it be accurate to describe the second location as “ulappa” in relation to the first one?
> 
> _Hevossalmi : Itämeri_ OK
> 
> _Pohjanlahti : It__ämeri_ No, both have _ulappa._
> 
> _Itämeri : Pohjanmeri_ No, both have _ulappa._
> 
> Also, can _ulappa _be used metaphorically, perhaps in contexts like the following?
> 
> _Tämä työympäristö on liian holhoavaa minulle: haluanpa ulapalle!_ Why not! Never hear it before.
> 
> _Joskus masentunut ihminen kuvaa tunnettaan näin, että hän olisi ulapalla._ Why not! Never hear it before.


_Ulappa_ means a part of open sea where you can't see any land at least in one direction. You can stand on the shore and in front of you there may be _ulappa_.


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## sakvaka

Ulappa has one metaphorical use, though:

_Olen ihan ulapalla!_ = _Olen ihan ulkona!_ = I don't understand anything about it!


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## reamary

By the way, I'm more familiar with the expression _"Olen ihan ulalla"_, rather than _"Olen ulapalla",_ so I was thinking, if you know whether _ulalla_ is actually derived from _ulapalla_?


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## Gavril

reamary said:


> By the way, I'm more familiar with the expression _"Olen ihan ulalla"_, rather than _"Olen ulapalla",_ so I was thinking, if you know whether _ulalla_ is actually derived from _ulapalla_?



_ulappa, _like _ulko-, _may be from earlier *_ula- _(NES, p.1400). _ulalla _might be based on the simpler root, but it might also be from _ulapalla _as you say.


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## Hakro

I don't know what the NES says about _*ula-_ but I think I know something about the etymology of _olla ulalla_, _mennä / joutua ulalle_.

During the fifties and sixties most taxicabs in Finland got ULA-radiotelephones (ULA = UltraLyhyet Aallot, Ultra Short Waves). If you called to a taxi station and there were no cars your call was automatically transferred to the ULA-center that took your address and sent it to the taxicabs. A taxi driver who considered it profitable could answer the center and take your order.

In the beginning the main problem was that the customer wasn't informed about the possible answer. So, when your call was transferred to the ULA-center you said _nyt meni ulalle_, meaning that you have no idea when you might get a taxi. Also in the rush times like saturday nights it may have taken a long time before the ULA-center could answer. During these long — maybe from five to fifteen — minutes all you could say is _olen (ihan) ulalla_ meaning that you don't know when and how you can get an answer.

Very soon this became a common phrase: If someone couldn't give an answer to your question you said: _Taidat olla vähän / ihan ulalla_. And if it was you who couldn't answer you said, _En tiedä siitä mitään, olen ihan ulalla__.

_I haven't heard before the phrase _olla ulapalla_ but it seems quite clear that it's a derivative of _olla ulalla_. There are similar derivations in slang or colloquial phrases but this is one of the best as _olla ulapalla_, "to be on the open sea", really gives the idea that one doesn't know where s/he is and what to do.


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