# أكلت يوم أكل الثور الأبيض



## Andrew___

I read today the children's story about the white bull.

It mentioned at the end of the story the proverb: *أكلت يوم أكل الثور الأبيض*

May I ask if this proverb is widely known and recognised?  Would people know what I mean if I raised it in conversation in the appropriate context?

(The closest English proverb I can think of to this is "Going down a slippery slope".)


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## WadiH

Yeah, we learned about it in 3rd grade.  It's a very common saying, at least where I come from.


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## Little_LIS

I've never heard of that story  

I know nothing about that expression


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## yasmeena

> It's a very common saying, at least where I come from.


 Politicians use it a lot.


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## Mahaodeh

Dr.Susy said:


> I've never heard of that story
> 
> I know nothing about that expression


 
I must say that this surprises me; is it not so common in Egypt?

I never learnt the story in school, but the proverb is common and the story is also sort of common knowledge too in the places I've lived in.



Andrew___ said:


> (The closest English proverb I can think of to this is "Going down a slippery slope".)


 
I don't think that the proverb corresponds to "Going down a slippery slope" because it misses the point of the proverb.


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## Andrew___

I raised it with my Egyptian friend today in Dubai, and he had never heard of it either. He is from Upper Egypt - perhaps the proverb has not gone that far down south yet :>



Mahaodeh said:


> I don't think that the proverb corresponds to "Going down a slippery slope" because it misses the point of the proverb.


 
The sense of the English proverb "Going down a slippery slope" (or more commonly "Sliding down a slippery slope") is that you need to be strong in resisting a bad thing when it first appears - if you make concessions to it, then it will lead to more and more concessions until you are eventually conquered by it. To use a political example, if a government recognises one alternative type of marriage, then this will lead to another alternative and another until there is no significance in marriage at all. Isn't this the sense of the proverb in Arabic?

As the story teaches, the red and the brown bulls should have been strong in preventing the lion from eating the white bull.


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## Mahaodeh

No, not exactly; the point is that the black and red bull should have not looked the other way when the white one called for help; it's about not saying "it's none of my business" because your turn will come sooner or later and then there will be no one left to call for help.

An example of how it would be used is when someone sees police brutality (as an example) against someone else, he keeps walking on and says "it's none of my business", not testifying against them because you are afraid or you just don't want trouble will only cause the police to go on with this until one day the brutality is against you; that's when you say أُكِلْتُ يوم أُكِلَ الثور الأبيض ; that's when you regret it and wish you didn't look the other way when you saw that first person wronged.


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## xebonyx

This probably matches up more to "wise after the event"(hindsight is 20/20).


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## Haroon

I think that the origin of ( the white ox ) may be traced in the tales of Aesop .أيسوب   .....
It is used in political contexts frequently as it is said . It is also used to refer to the consequences of collaborating with enemies aganist people of one's own.


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## Nikola

Ahlan ya Haroon,
How common is it to Egyptians since others seem not to know it?


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## yasmeena

Arabs are one nation with one enemy. If they don't stand up for each other when attacked, there will come a day when every Arab state will be cornered, and thus say - when it is too late *أكلت يوم أكل الثور الأبيض. *( I have allowed this to happen when I first silently witnessed it happen to my neighbouring Arab state الثور الأبيض)

I think this is the most commonly referred to example.


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## cherine

Mahaodeh said:


> I must say that this surprises me; is it not so common in Egypt?





Nikola said:


> How common is it to Egyptians since others seem not to know it?


It's true that this saying is not commonly used as a proverb in Egypt, but all those who read the story should know it.
As far as I can remember it, it goes -in short- like this: there were 3 bulls (one black, one red and one white) very good friends and inseparable. The lion wanted very much to eat them, but certainly couldn't face the three alone. So the fox advised him to play "divide and conquer". So, the lion (or the fox, I can't remember for sure) managed to talk to the black and the red bull and convinced them that the white bull was a danger for them because he drews the attention....etc. Finally, the let the lion eat the white bull.
Then he played the same with the black bull, who let the lion eat the red bull.
Finally, when it was the black bull's turn to be eaten, he remembered what he had done to his friends; letting the lion eat them, he regretted his treason and his passiveness, and told himself that he was doomed the day he let the white bull be eaten.



Mahaodeh said:


> I don't think that the proverb corresponds to "Going down a slippery slope" because it misses the point of the proverb.


I agree with you, Maha. I don't think the two sayings have the same meaning.



Mahaodeh said:


> No, not exactly; the point is that the black and red bull should have not looked the other way when the white one called for help; it's about not saying "it's none of my business" because your turn will come sooner or later and then there will be no one left to call for help.


Maha and Yasmeena gave excellent explanation of the proverb and how it can be used.

There are Arabs who believe that the day will come when there own countries will be invaded as Iraq, and that just as we let our brothers suffer alone, our turn will come, and we won't find any one to help us.
We were doomed the day the Iraqi bull was eaten.


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## Andrew___

Many thanks everyone for your explanations.

Also, I only said that the English proverb "sliding down a slippery slope" is the _*closest* _English proverb.  There is not an exact equivalent in English as far as I am aware.  I challenge anyone to think of a closer one, but I don't think you will find one.


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## londonmasri

I think this is a very unique saying to the arabic language - it's interpretation relies heavily on intertextual reference - so if you don't know the story it won't make much sense (as it didnt to me)

It draws on the following english sayings:

'you shot yourself in the foot'
'what goes around comes around'
'what you sow, you reep' / 'you reep what you sow'

Or a _very_ common saying

'the past has come back to haunt you'.

But these are not accurate translations/ representations of the _3arabi_.


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## Andrew___

londonmasri said:


> It draws on the following english sayings:
> 
> 'what goes around comes around'
> 'what you sow, you reep' / 'you reep what you sow'
> 'the past has come back to haunt you'.



Thanks Londonmasri, yes I think that these 3 are all closer than "Sliding down a slippery slope".


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## djamal 2008

I always liked this saying : The chickens coming home to roost:
As you sow, so shall you reap;


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## Josh_

Good call Djamal.  I'd say that "the chickens are coming home to roost" is just about the closest English equivalent for this, although not exact.

Like Haroon, I also think this story sounds very much like one of Aesop's Fables, or maybe a story out of Kaliila wa-Dimna.


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## Haroon

As for as Egyptians concern, such a ( would- be ) striking proverb is not widely common due to the facts that many people get their " bulk " knowledge from TV and movies; unfortunately this saying has never been mentioned in either. However the people who are interested in history do know it, as the proverb is - inevitably - repeated when one reads about the history of Andalus or Medieval Crusades.


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## ayed

It hasn't come to my mind an Arabic classic proveb so far.Here are two colloquial :
*الدنيا دوارة مثلما دارت لغيرك بدور عليك*
*الكرسي دوار*


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## cherine

Hi,
I just read this English (American?) saying today and it reminded me of this thread:
"United we stand, divided we fall.” 
I think it expresses very well the idea of the Arabic saying.


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## Mahaodeh

There is another Arabic saying for that:

تأبى الرماحُ إذا اجتمعنَ تكسُّرًا ==== وإذا افترقنَ تكسَّرَت آحادا


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## djamal 2008

During the american revolution, I think it was Benjamin Franklin  who said to the rebels then : we have to hang toghether or hang separatly.


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