# Icelandic: Sínum



## Daniel20

Sæl,

I'm just starting to try some basic texts that I picked up in Iceland. The first page, second sentence of this kid's book has thrown me!

'Benni hafði leikið sér góða stund að kubbunum sínum og bílnum sínum'. 

Benni had [was having?] a good time [with his blocks and his cars]? 

I may have this completely wrong so far, but the sínum is throwing me more than anything. I think it's a reflexive pronoun which I haven't learned yet? Is it implying he's alone? 

The sér is also causing me some difficulty too.

Takk!

Dan


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## Alxmrphi

The verbal expression here is* leika sér að e-u* ~ play with sth.
Think of it more like _enjoying *himself* with the blocks and cars _if you need to try and imagine what it could be thought of as.
Then, once it makes sense to you how it can be used, then overwrite 'enjoy' with 'play', which is what it really means.

Edit: Wow, totally forgot to mention the _sínum_ thing. Yeah, this is what is called the possessive reflexive pronoun. This is the time when it'd be really useful to just point to a pre-written lesson in English that was broad and comprehensive. Actually, I think I know where there could be one... No luck. Actually, I might have asked a question a couple of years ago that might be useful - or answered one.

Check out these:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2664456
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1327464

If it's still not clear, I'm sure we can all pool together a decent explanation in this thread.
The basic point is that, only existing in the third person, you can make a distinction between the possession of the subject and the possession of someone else if there is another person in the context.

So, if there are two guys and one woman in the context:

Hann kyssti konuna sína - He kissed his wife.
Hann kyssti konuna _hans_ - He kissed his wife. (his = someone else's)

So, because the blocks and toys are the property of Benni from the main clause, this how how you say "*his*" in this case.


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## Segorian

> 'Benni hafði leikið sér góða stund að kubbunum sínum og bílnum sínum'.
> 
> Benni had [was having?] a good time [with his blocks and his cars]?


 The meaning of the expression _góða stund_ is “for a fair amount of time” / “for a while”.


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## Daniel20

Takk fyrir hjálpína, Alex. That second link was helpful!

Aaahh okay, Segorian, that makes sense. The next sentence is 'but now he is bored'. So, together that would be something like: 'Benni was playing with his blocks and cars for some time. But now he is bored.' Would this be how others interpret it? As Alex used the word _enjoying _but to me that would be lost if _góða stund_ is a phrase? It seems to me now the sentence is more not about how much fun he was having, but the length of time he was doing it for. 

Two phrases here, no wonder I couldn't understand it/Google translate got lost!


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## MtnGirl

Alxmrphi said:


> ...only existing in the third person, you can make a distinction between the possession of the subject and the possession of someone else if there is another person in the context.
> 
> So, if there are two guys and one woman in the context:
> 
> Hann kyssti konuna sína - He kissed his wife.
> Hann kyssti konuna _hans_ - He kissed his wife. (his = someone else's)



Just wanted to drop in here and say that this example makes a lot of sense to me. Can I ask a really simple question on sentence order? Why are these possessive pronouns after the the direct object (_konuna_) instead of before it? Or is that normal sentence structure and I just haven't noticed?


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## Alxmrphi

MtnGirl said:


> Just wanted to drop in here and say that this example makes a lot of sense to me. Can I ask a really simple question on sentence order? Why are these possessive pronouns after the the direct object (_konuna_) instead of before it? Or is that normal sentence structure and I just haven't noticed?



Hi there!
Yes, that is the default order. However, a few other options are available (such as occurring before the noun and dropping the requirement for the definite article) and this is to indicate emphasis/stress. That's quite common in more poetic language, so maybe you have seen a lot of that but in ordinary everyday Icelandic, the order is that the possessor comes after the possessed.


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## Segorian

> Why are these possessive pronouns after the the direct object (_konuna_) instead of before it? Or is that normal sentence structure and I just haven't noticed?


 Yes, that is normal syntax. If the pronoun precedes the direct object in structures like this, that is because if is being heavily emphasized.

Examples: _Hann kyssti *sína* konu_ (and not someone else’s wife). _Hann kyssti *hans* konu_ (and not his own wife). (Note that the suffixed article is dropped in these cases).

However, the normal word order can be kept if there is only a moderate emphasis on the possessive pronoun: _Hann kyssti konuna *sína*/*hans*_​.


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## Segorian

Okay, I see Alxmrphi beat me to it (you have to be quick if you’re going to write 18,436 posts).



> …this is to indicate emphasis/stress. That's quite common in more poetic language, so maybe you have seen a lot of that but in ordinary everyday Icelandic, the order is that the possessor comes after the possessed.


 This is somewhat inaccurate. It is true that the usage whereby the pronoun precedes the noun without being emphasized is more frequent in poetry: _hann vatt sér inn með vota kinn / og kyssti sína konu_. However, an *emphasized* pronoun in front of the noun is also very common in ordinary language. My four-year old niece might say: _Ég vil *hennar* dúkku!_ (meaning that she wants to be handed precisely that doll, and not another one).


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## MtnGirl

Okay, that makes sense to change word order for emphasis. In English, word order stays the same and inflection changes for emphasis, but since the first syllable is always emphasized in Icelandic, the word order can be changed in some instances...


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