# Moré mou



## bearded

Hello
In another thread (κάνεις) I saw a quotation of a vocative form_ moré._  So far, I thought the word 'moró' was neuter, therefore shouldn't its vocative be 'moró' like the nominative? Is there a masculine_ morós_? Is_ moró mou_ also possible and used?
Many thanks in advance.


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## Perseas

Yes, "μωρέ" is vocative of the adjective "μωρός", which means "dumb", "moron".
The vocative, specially, is often accompanied by a exclamative phrase and expresses varying feelings: joy, wonder, sympathy, intimacy, admiration, mild intignation ... 
Παράλληλη αναζήτηση

"μωρό μου" means "my baby".


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## διαφορετικός

There are several words with similar meanings which are also etymologically related, but have different lemmas in the dictionary ( http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/lexica/triantafyllides/index.html ): μωρέ, ωρέ, βρε, ρε.

What is the main difference between these words?


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## dmtrs

Perseas said:


> "μωρέ" is vocative of the adjective "μωρός", which means "dumb", "moron".



Although this is true, "μωρέ" is more often used without its offensive meaning and, in fact, without gender limitations; it is used as an expression of intimacy towards the person it's addressed to. It is a 'softer' and 'friendlier' version of "ρέ" (which, funnily enough, derives from "μωρέ").

_    Έλα μωρέ μπαμπά, μη θυμώνεις... / Έλα ρε μπαμπά, μη θυμώνεις... (not offensive) // Πού πας ρε ηλίθιε; (offensive)
    Έλα μωρέ μαμά, μη θυμώνεις... / Έλα ρε μαμά, μη θυμώνεις... (not offensive) // Πού πας ρε ηλίθια; (offensive)_

The feminine "μωρή" still keeps its offensive character -less so in slang, lumpen communication or some local dialects.

_    Έλα μωρή μαμά, μη θυμώνεις... _would be totally inappropriate.
_Μωρή Κούλα, μην είδες το γιο μου;_ (a phrase that could be used by less educated people or in a village -especially some decades ago- without offensive intention).


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## dmtrs

διαφορετικός said:


> μωρέ, ωρέ, βρε, ρε.



All derive from μωρέ. 
Βρε is less and less used, I think, the way I describe for μωρέ in my last post.
Ωρέ (same use) is very dated; can be found in demotika songs or dialogues of the 19th century or earlier.


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## sotos

It is not generally accepted that μωρέ comes from "μωρός". Another folk etymology is from ωραίε. I believe that it is a variant of the "epiphonema" oρέ. For females we have also μαρή / αρή, which cannot easily derive from μωρή. The initial "m" may be euphonic. More common is the addition of an "n" in front of words starting with vowels.


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## dmtrs

sotos said:


> It is not generally accepted that μωρέ comes from "μωρός".



It is true that not all agree on that, but no other etymology that I'm aware of, including the one you mention, sotos, can explain the feminine μωρή, I think. I don't believe an exclamation word (epiphonema) could change to suit different genders.


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## Perseas

According to ΛΚΝ-online dictionary, [μσν. _μωρέ_ κλητ. του αρχ. επιθ. _μωρός_].
According to Babiniοtis etymological dictionary, all _μωρέ, βρε, μπρε, ωρέ, ρε_ derive from _μωρός _(att. μῶρος).

It's interesting that "More, re, bre (with many variants) is an interjection common to Albanian, Greek, Romanian, South Slavic, Turkish, Venetian and Ukrainian [...]".
More (interjection) - Wikipedia


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## ioanell

Perseas said:


> According to ΛΚΝ-online dictionary, [μσν. _μωρέ_ κλητ. του αρχ. επιθ. _μωρός_].
> According to Babiniοtis etymological dictionary, all _μωρέ, βρε, μπρε, ωρέ, ρε_ derive from _μωρός _(att. μῶρος).



In addition to the above, we could mention “The Etymological Dictionary of the Common Greek” by Prof. Nicolaos Andriotis, who also refers to Georgios Hatzidakis’ (generally accepted as “The father of the Greek Linguistics”) relevant article in the “Byzantinishe Zeitung” and “The Functional Dictionary of Modern Greek  Language” issued by “The Athens Academy”, under the supervision and coordination of Prof. Christophoros Haralambakis, which all agree on the abovementioned etymology.

I am not aware of any other reliable etymology, which could validly question all the above.




sotos said:


> For females we have also μαρή / αρή, which cannot easily derive from μωρή. The initial "m" may be euphonic. More common is the addition of an "n" in front of words starting with vowels.



It should be noted that “μαρή / αρή” are dialectal forms which came about through oral corruption of “μωρή” and transformation of “ω” into “α” and a later silencing of the initial “μ”.


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## bearded

Eucharisto Sas olous gia tis endiapherouses apantiseis kai exigiseis Sas.


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## Helleno File

This has been a fascinating discussion. I have wondered about the origin of ρε and was not at all sure about its use. Both issues a lot clearer now. 

Even more surprising is the change in meaning of μωρός from idiot to to a friendly greeting.  Etymology is a strange thing!


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## ireney

Moderator's note: If it was doable I'd split this conversation into 2. Please don't continue with the off topic discussions.


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## Αγγελος

Helleno File said:


> Even more surprising is the change in meaning of μωρός from idiot to to a friendly greeting.  Etymology is a strange thing!



Curiously, the word μαλάκας has been following exactly the same path lately.
Originally, it meant "one who masturbates", and fifty years ago it was a highly offensive insult, though mostly meaning "silly fool".
It is no longer really taboo, no more than "jerk" in English, and among younger people is often used as just a very informal term of address:
Τι γίνεσαι, ρε μαλάκα; = How are you doing, old fart?
Ελα, ρε μαλάκα, πάμε για καφέ! = Come on, buddy, let's go have a cup of coffee!


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