# Twice



## Maroseika

Languages use different ways to express the idea of repeating the action, but typically they use a Numeral + a word meaning some kind of a single action, the latter to coincide sometimes in the quite different languages (such as those marked blue below):

English – two times
German – zweimal (two signs)
Dutch – tweemal (two signs)
Sweden - två gånger (two passes)

Irish - faoi dhó (two “unders” – two folds = twofold)

Italian – due volte (two turnovers)

Latin descendants < vĭces, vicissim – change, again < voyage, retour (cf. via), such as:
Spanish – dos veses 
French - deux fois

Slavic  descendants < Old Slavic дъвашьды < two *sed (go) = two passes, such as:
Russian - дважды 
Bulgarian– дваж
Serbian - два̑жде
Ukrainian - двічі

Russian – два раза (two cuts)
Czech – dva krat (two layers)

Tajik – ду бор (two weights)
Ossetian - дыууæ хаты (two voyages)

Chuvash - йкӗ хут (two papers?)
Hungarian – kétszer (two ?)

Komi - кык пӧв (two halves or two boards)

Kyrgyz – эки жолу (two ways)
Kazakh – эки рет (two turns) 
Tatar – икке кат (two stores, layers)

Mongolian – хоёр дахин (two “agains”)



The question is: what other ways to express the idea of “twiceness” are used in the languages you know?
Of course any corrections and supplements of my summary will be highly appreciated.


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## Frank06

Hi,


Maroseika said:


> Dutch – tweemal (two signs)


First a minor correction: it's _tweemaal_, double a.
Secondly, some etymologists connect _maal_ with Middle Dutch _mael_ (which indeed means sign, token), but the meaning of the word _maal_ already changed its meaning before used in _tweemaal_. Hence the etymology tweemaal equals two signs is a bit anachronistic.

Alternatives are _twee keer, andermaal, tweewerf (?)_.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## sound shift

Sorry, Frank, but there's a further correction to be made:  Spanish has "dos ve*c*es". Neem het mij niet kwalijk!


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*: _kahdesti_ ("two-ly", the multiplicative form of _kaksi_) or _kaksi kertaa_ (two times*).

----
* Usually _aika_ = time, but in this context a different word is used. I'm not sure about the etymology of _kerta_.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
Δύο φορές
ð*i*o for*e*s
lit. "two directions"


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## Maroseika

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> Δύο φορές
> ð*i*o for*e*s
> lit. "two directions"


Does it mean two turnovers or two passes in 2 directions, i.e there and back?


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## Maroseika

sakvaka said:


> I'm not sure about the etymology of _kerta_.


I also wondered about its etymology. Could it be, say, a Dutch loan (cf. _twee keer_ as mentioned above)?

Do you know any links or etymological sources of Finnish?


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## Maroseika

Frank06 said:


> Secondly, some etymologists connect _maal_ with Middle Dutch _mael_ (which indeed means sign, token), but the meaning of the word _maal_ already changed its meaning before used in _tweemaal_.


Well, actually another interesting question tightly connected with the title one, is semantic of the idea of "time/maal" in different languages. Though the meaning of _maal _has changed, as you are writing, by the epoch of _tweemaal_ appearance, but I'm sure it was still "felt" by the German natives in _zweimal_, for example, due to such wrods as _malen _- to paint. Was their in the past the similar verb in Dutch?
Actually in the most languages mentioned below original meaning of the word "time" is easily readable, save of Slavic of course.


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## Favara

Catalan:
_Dos cops_ = "Two hits"
_Dues vegades_ = "Two times"

(_Dos/dues_ could also be _un parell de_, meaning "a couple of")


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## Maroseika

Favara said:


> Catalan:
> _Dos cops_ = "Two hits"
> _Dues vegades_ = "Two times"
> 
> (_Dos/dues_ could also be _un parell de_, meaning "a couple of")


What's the history of the word _vegad_ (_vegade?_)? Is it a cognat of Spanish _vec _< Lat. voyage?


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## phosphore

Maroseika said:


> Serbian - два̑жде


 
There is no such word in Serbian. There are _dvaput_ and _dva puta_.


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## Agró

Maroseika said:


> What's the history of the word _vegad_ (_vegade?_)? Is it a cognat of Spanish _vec _< Lat. voyage?


Vegada (pl. vegades):
 Etim.: del llatí vg. *vĭcāta, mat. sign., derivat del clàssic vĭce, ‘torn’, ‘tanda’.
(From Vulgar Latin *vĭcāta, same meaning, from Classical Latin vĭce, 'turn'.


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## zăpadă

Romanian :  De două ori


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## brtkrbzhnv

Maroseika said:


> I also wondered about its etymology. Could it be, say, a Dutch loan (cf. _twee keer_ as mentioned above)?


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kerta says it's from some Baltic language, inherited from Balto–Slavic according to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kartas. Maroseika said 'twice' is _dva krat_ in Czech, but http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dvakrát says it's _dvakrát_; and the interpretation 'two layers' also seems dubious considering the word apparently meant 'times' already in Balto–Slavic. And I don't think _keer_ can be related to _krát_/_kartas_/_kerta_ either, considering Balto–Slavic initial /k/ seems to correspond to Germanic /h/, at least according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws.


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## tanp0p0

In Vietnamese:

Hai lần = "Two times"


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## Maroseika

tanp0p0 said:


> In Vietnamese:
> 
> Hai lần = "Two times"


What does it literally mean or meant in the past?


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## Maroseika

brtkrbzhnv said:


> _dvakrát_; and the interpretation 'two layers' also seems dubious considering the word apparently meant 'times' already in Balto–Slavic.


In fact I meant only etimological meaning. But I'm almost sure original sense (layer or maybe slice) should have been rather clear to the natives using and keeping use up to now such a word, for exapmle, as _krýt - _to cover (such as Polish -kroć > dwakroć - twofold). 
At least in other languages this stem gives: Lith. kar̃tą - layer, row, generation, Lat. kā̀rtа - layer, row, Lith. kertù, kir̃sti - to hack.


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## Maroseika

Agró said:


> Vegada (pl. vegades):
> Etim.: del llatí vg. *vĭcāta, mat. sign., derivat del clàssic vĭce, ‘torn’, ‘tanda’.
> (From Vulgar Latin *vĭcāta, same meaning, from Classical Latin vĭce, 'turn'.


So, the same stem as in Italian and Spanish. Did you use some online etym. source of Catalan etymology?


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## tanp0p0

Maroseika said:


> What does it literally mean or meant in the past?



Sorry but I don't really understand your question.

"Hai lần" only means "two times". It doesn't have any other meaning. 
By the way, in Vietnamese, we don't use tenses like in English.


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## amikama

Hebrew:

*פעמיים *- it's the word פעם (=time) in the dual form.


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## apmoy70

Maroseika said:


> Does it mean two turnovers or two passes in 2 directions, i.e there and back?


φορά (pʰo'ra in ancient Greek, fo'ra in modern Greek, _feminine noun_), when used in singular, has the meaning of motion proper. When used in plural (fo'res), in order to express the idea of a repeatitive action, it has the meaning of motion proper+change of location.


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## Maroseika

tanp0p0 said:


> Sorry but I don't really understand your question.
> 
> "Hai lần" only means "two times". It doesn't have any other meaning.
> By the way, in Vietnamese, we don't use tenses like in English.


Well, like was shown above, the very idea of the repetitive action is expressed in very different ways in the languages, but always figuratevely: as 2 voyages, 2 pieces, 2 ways, 2 loads, 2 folds, etc. Sometimes original meaning of this word is not recognizable even by the natives, but etomology allows to recall it.
So my question is what metaphor expresses the idea of this word (times) in Vietnamese, i.e. what's the etymology of lần? Is it connected, for example, with _lyan _- Chinese measure of weight of precious metals  (nowadays 31.2 g)?


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## Maroseika

apmoy70 said:


> φορά (pʰo'ra in ancient Greek, fo'ra in modern Greek, _feminine noun_), when used in singular, has the meaning of motion proper. When used in plural (fo'res), in order to express the idea of a repeatitive action, it has the meaning of motion proper+change of location.


Since φορεῖ means "carries", is it possible that δύο φορές originally meant "carrying a cargo 2 times" (there and back)?


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## Hakro

Maroseika said:


> I also wondered about its etymology. Could it be, say, a Dutch loan (cf. _twee keer_ as mentioned above)?
> 
> Do you know any links or etymological sources of Finnish?


I doubt about the Dutch connection.

There are a couple of good books but in the Internet I've found only this one.


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## Maroseika

amikama said:


> Hebrew:
> 
> *פעמיים *- it's the word פעם (=time) in the dual form.


What is its literal or original sense? Could it mean "a step" (פַּעֲמָ)?


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## Maroseika

phosphore said:


> There is no such word in Serbian. There are _dvaput_ and _dva puta_.


I found this word in Vasmer. Anyway, _dvaput _(two ways) is also very intersting, thanks.


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## Maroseika

STELE said:


> Romanian :  De două ori


What does mean _ori _literally or meant originally?


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## apmoy70

Maroseika said:


> Since φορές means "carries", is it possible that δύο φορές originally meant "carrying a cargo 2 times" (there and back)?


Interesting, never have thought it that way. Yes, it could. But it also means _tendency_.


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## kusurija

In Czech: dvakrát - means two times (not 'two layers' )

In Lithuanian: dukart - means two times. 
Also we can say: pora kartų (a pair of times)
(Karta gyveno karalius... One time there lived a King...)
(Mūsų karta - our generation)


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## Maroseika

apmoy70 said:


> Interesting, never have thought it that way. Yes, it could. But it also means _tendency_.


Sorry, I meant φορεῖ.


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## Maroseika

kusurija said:


> In Czech: dvakrát - means two times (not 'two layers' )
> 
> In Lithuanian: dukart - means two times.
> (Karta gyveno karalius... One time there lived a King...)
> (Mūsų karta - our generation)


I know of course krát means "time" now. I meant its etymological sense. Same like in Lithuanian it derivates from something like "a section" and definately relates to krátit. In Lith., according to Vasmer, it means (or meant?) not onlygeneration, but also a layer and a row.


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## Outsider

Maroseika said:


> Italian – due volte (*two turnovers*)
> 
> Latin descendants < vĭces, vicissim – change, again < voyage, retour (cf. via), such as:
> Spanish – dos ve*c*es
> French - deux fois


Or simply "two turns".

In Portuguese it's _duas vezes_.


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## apmoy70

Maroseika said:


> Sorry, I meant φορεῖ.


You shouldn't edit your post, you were right, φορά it also meant in ancient Greek "the carrying", e.g «θυρώτοιν _φορᾶς_»: "payment_ for__ carrying"_


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## sakvaka

Maroseika said:


> I also wondered about its etymology. Could it be, say, a Dutch loan (cf. _twee keer_ as mentioned above)?
> 
> Do you know any links or etymological sources of Finnish?



I checked the good old etymology book by Kaisa Häkkinen (2004):

- It has counterwords in all the language relatives of Finnish (_gerde _in Sami and so on). 
- The word stem is both Baltic (Old Prussian - _kerda_ - "time") and Germanic (Old High German - _herta_ - "alternation, variety, phase"). Agricola brought it to Standard Finnish.

(see my earlier post on the *origins *of the Finnish language: http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=7710560&postcount=13)


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## amikama

Maroseika said:


> What is its literal or original sense? Could it mean "a step" (פַּעֲמָ)?


Yes, "a step" is another meaning of the word פַּעַם. I'm not sure which of the two meanings was the original one.


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## Hutschi

In German there are two ways to express it:

1. Zweimal (see also #1)
2. Doppelt

Which is preferred depends on context.

More general: repeating an action:

Erwas noch einmal machen - to do it once more
Etwas wiederholen - to repeat it
Etwas ein weiteres Mal machen - to do it one additional time


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## kusurija

In Japanese:
再度 [saido] (redundant degree/time) _or_
二回 [nikai] (two turns)


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## jana.bo99

Croatian:

twice - dvaput; somebody says, dva put

Slovenian: 

twice - dvakrat 

Twice is more than once: dvakrat je već kot enkrat.


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## Nizo

*Esperanto*

_dufoje_ (_du _= two, _foj-_ = time, _-e_ = adverbial ending)


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## OneStroke

In Classical Chinese, we use the adverb 再 zài to indicate twice. In modern Chinese, this word means again and the old meaning is only preserved in fixed phrases like 一而再，再而三 (once, then twice, twice, then thrice).


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## mataripis

In Tagalog it is "makalawang ulit or inulit".


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## jana.bo99

Thank you all for kind translation of "twice"


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