# Women's Day



## Lil_Star

Happy women's day to every woman around here!!
In this special day let's celebrate the existence of woman, and the happiness and brightness that EVERY SINGLE woman contributes to give to the world everyday, but also let's never forget the abuses and violence that many women in the world are put through...
What do you think about this?

Again,I wish every woman in this world to have a HAPPY WOMENS DAY!


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## maxiogee

Lil_Star said:


> Happy women's day to every woman around here!!
> In this special day let's celebrate the existence of woman, and the happiness and brightness that EVERY SINGLE woman contributes to give to the world everyday,


Only if we can forget about them again tomorrow! 

But seriously, I agree.
Without women this place would be a hell on earth (oh wait, it already is! Well, it'd be must hellier than it is!!).

Thanks ladies.


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## Lombard Beige

Lil_Star said:


> Happy women's day to every woman around here!!
> In this special day let's celebrate the existence of woman, and the happiness and brightness that EVERY SINGLE woman contributes to give to the world everyday, but also let's never forget the abuses and violence that many women in the world are put through...
> What do you think about this?
> 
> Again,I wish every woman in this world to have a HAPPY WOMENS DAY!



Me too. 

Thank God for women, femmes, mujeres, donne, mulheres ... 

Otherwise we men wouldn't even be here.


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## Orestes

I know the Women's day is a way to celebrate the decrease in sex discrimination towards women. But, i think that, the name for such celebration is wrong. If the equalty between genders must be seen as something completely normal, why should there be a day to celebrate it? Doesn't it make it _special_ instead of normal?

That's why it has become political.

Borning as a woman is not something anyone can choose. The idea of this celebration and its name should be changed to something like: "Advances in equalty of gender's Day" or "Anti-sex discrimination's Day"

Just my thoughts on it.


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## jonquiliser

My wish for Women's day: that the whole depth of the issue would be lent some genuine thought. it is about so much more than the existence of women. it is about discrimination and oppression of women: not only evident, 'extreme', visible oppression, like violence against women. but also the subtle attitudes towards and about women and 'femininity'. those fucked-up, twisted about what women are and how they should be, and behave. expectations on women, and restrictions of women. all those things, that are the very roots of the 'extreme' forms of oppression that so many women have to suffer. but we all have to face chauvinists, men who belittle us, refuse to talk us seriously and dismiss us as 'cute, little mistaken sweeties'. i wish everybody would take the time to think about what patriarchy means, how we all take on those roles assigned to us, try to meet absurd expections on us. 

so, everybody, have a good and MIND-BLOWING women's day. 

sincerely, 
jonquiliser


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## Etcetera

I don't have anything against Women's Day. If we have Men's Day (at least here in Russia), why not to have a special day for women?
I regard this day as just another nice occasion for people to remember about each other. And, well, it's a bank holiday. There can't be too many holidays.


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## karuna

Women's Day is said to be celebrated in the Soviet block because of political reasons. But in reality it had nothing political in that day. It was just a beautiful day of celebration when men give flowers to women around him – mothers, sisters, female colleagues and teachers, etc. Also treat women with chocolates and self-made feasts. We couldn't live without women anyhow, so it is a day to express gratitude for your role in our lives. 

So, I am using the opportunity to express my thanks and congratulate all women on this forum, especially Etcetera, Cereth, Setwale_Charm and all others whom I cannot name solely due to lack of space. My congratulations to you all!


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## Kajjo

I did not even know that there is a day like "women's day". It appears to have no importance whatsoever in Germany. But anyway, I never liked these "day of X" stuff. It's just about a superficial and politically motivated issues -- at least in most countries. What do we really need for these days of dogs, trees, certain diseases, and so on?

If it is a real holiday in Russia, it has possibly another meaning there and might be nice to celebrate, though.

Kajjo


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## karuna

That's true, Kajjo. It has no political meaning in Russia and other former Soviet block countries. In fact we celibrated it even without knowing its history and political background. I only recently read about this on Wikipedia. In Latvia it is much like Mother's day and Valentine day combined.


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## jonquiliser

Kajjo said:


> It's just about a superficial and politically motivated issues -- at least in most countries. What do we really need for these days of dogs, trees, certain diseases, and so on?



For me it is an eon away from superficial, oppression and domination is VERY real and VERY IMPORTANT to change, and this goes for every single country there is on this globe. That it is politically motivated, what is the problem? It isn't really a 'celebration day', in the sense VAlentine's might be. it is about taking the time to think about something and highlighting the existence of  problems. 

Roses can be nice alright, but they aren't going to change things and eliminate oppression...

:|


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## irene.acler

I'd like to highlight from what Women's Day comes from, because I think that nowadays in some countries, in Italy for example, it is celebrated without bearing in mind the original meaning. 

On 8th March 1908 a group of female workers living in the US (New York) went on strike, because of the difficult working conditions they were compelled to live in the factory where they worked.
The boss of the factory, to end with strikes and the complaints of workers, closed the factory in which many women were working, and burnt it. As a consequence, all the women inside died. 

That's why, on the 8th of March, we should celebrate Women's Day, to remember those poor women who died just because they were seeking their rights. Instead, we celebrate it as a sort of commercial day.
I mean, I think it's important to remember the role of women in society, as we know the difficult situation they lived in the past in particular, but also nowadays in many countries of the world. Nevertheless, we should remember the role of women (and of all people in general) all days: it's not necessary to have a particular day to celebrate them.


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## Grefsen

irene.acler said:


> I'd like to highlight from what Women's Day comes from, because I think that nowadays in some countries, in Italy for example, it is celebrated without bearing in mind the original meaning.
> 
> On 8th March 1908 a group of female workers living in the US (New York) went on strike, because of the difficult working conditions they were compelled to live in the factory where they worked.
> The boss of the factory, to end with strikes and the complaints of workers, closed the factory in which many women were working, and burnt it. As a consequence, all the women inside died.
> 
> That's why, on the 8th of March, we should celebrate Women's Day, to remember those poor women who died just because they were seeking their rights. Instead, we celebrate it as a sort of commercial day.
> I mean, I think it's important to remember the role of women in society, as we know the difficult situation they lived in the past in particular, but also nowadays in many countries of the world. Nevertheless, we should remember the role of women (and of all people in general) all days: it's not necessary to have a particular day to celebrate them.



"Grazie" for the history lesson about the significance of the 8th of March.  Interesting to note that even though this terrible tragedy happened in New York, I'm not aware of anything special that is ever done here in the U.S. to commemorate this day.    Perhaps on the 100th anniversary next year, something really special might be done.


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## Pando

Have a great women's day everyone!


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## übermönch

Kajjo said:


> I did not even know that there is a day like "women's day". It appears to have no importance whatsoever in Germany.


That is not completely true - it actually was a holiday in the GDR, I'd even say it was one of the most important ones there - for a good reason - it was invented by Clara Zetkin, a German feminist and socialist.


> What do we really need for these days of dogs, trees, certain diseases, and so on?


Well, celebrating dogs, trees or simply love would atleast be a secular holiday, unlike most of the holidays in current FRG. Do you prefer those odd things like Fronleichnam or Christi Himmelfart? Even if you would, I bet your non-christian neighbour wouldn't. And, except that, the gender inequality in Germany is still severe - women can hardly get a job and if they get one they are paid less; because their role as a housewife is prescribed by German law - as for instance in the Mutterschutzgesetz. We need this holiday; i'd even say we should trade christmas for it


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## Poetic Device

Orestes said:


> I know the Women's day is a way to celebrate the decrease in sex discrimination towards women. But, i think that, the name for such celebration is wrong. If the equalty between genders must be seen as something completely normal, why should there be a day to celebrate it? Doesn't it make it _special_ instead of normal?  For the same reason we celebrate Black History Month (no offense meant, just proving a point).  Take it how you will, be it to piss people off or to always remember where we came from.
> 
> That's why it has become political.
> 
> Borning as a woman is not something anyone can choose. The idea of this celebration and its name should be changed to something like: "Advances in equalty of gender's Day" or "Anti-sex discrimination's Day"  I agree.
> 
> Just my thoughts on it.


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## jonquiliser

übermönch said:


> the gender inequality in Germany is still severe...
> 
> We need this holiday; i'd even say we should trade christmas for it



I vote for your proposal!


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## maxiogee

übermönch said:


> We need this holiday; i'd even say we should trade christmas for it



You won't hear any arguments from me on that - I'd even take one of these every month instead of the bleedin' twelve days of rampant consumerism and over-indulgence which the modern Christmas has become. 
January 6th was a socially recognised "women's day" in old Ireland - known as Nollaig na mBan (The Women's Christmas) the males of the household would wait on the mother in recognition of her contribution to the Christmas celebrations. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have one of them each month until the habit set in.


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## Kajjo

übermönch said:


> That is not completely true - it actually was a holiday in the GDR, I'd even say it was one of the most important ones there


I spoke only on behalf of the _contemporary Germany_ and that is in this case in agreement with the former _West Germany_. I do not know enough about East German habits, but I am fairly sure that I have never consciously heard anything serious about women's day in my whole life. For me such days are political statements, nothing more. Holidays are not meant to be such statements.



> Well, celebrating dogs, trees or simply love would at least be a secular holiday, unlike most of the holidays in current FRG. Do you prefer those odd things like Fronleichnam or Christi Himmelfart?


As it happens, I don't. I agree with you that Christian holidays are incompatible with a secular state and free choice of religion. That would make an interesting new thread perhaps?! Anyway, I would never exchange Christmas for anything -- no matter how secular I think otherwise... It is tradition, family, joy, everything good about childhood to me.



> The gender inequality in Germany is still severe - women can hardly get a job and if they get one they are paid less; because their role as a housewife is prescribed by German law - as for instance in the Mutterschutzgesetz.


I disagree entirely. The inequality is not severe, the laws have been comfortably adapted and Mutterschutz is an entirely excellent law to have -- no matter whether women want to continue to work or not.

Kajjo


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## fenixpollo

Orestes said:


> I know the Women's Day is a way to celebrate the decrease in sex discrimination towards women. But, I think that, the name for this celebration is wrong. If the equality between genders must be seen as something completely normal, why should there be a day to celebrate it? Doesn't it make it _special_ instead of normal?
> 
> That's why it has become political.
> 
> Being born as a woman is not something anyone can choose. The idea of this celebration and its name should be changed to something like: "Advances in equalty of gender's Day" or "Anti-sex discrimination's Day"


I agree that it seems strange to celebrate Women's Day. That means that the other 364 days are Men's Days. In most countries, I think that this is sadly true.





karuna said:


> Women's Day is said to be celebrated in the Soviet block because of political reasons. But in reality it had nothing political in that day. It was just a beautiful day of celebration when men give flowers to women around him – mothers, sisters, female colleagues and teachers, etc. Also treat women with chocolates and self-made feasts. We couldn't live without women anyhow, so it is a day to express gratitude for your role in our lives.


 I like this way to celebrate the day -- to show that you are thankful for the presence of the women who are present in your life. 


irene.acler said:


> On 8th March 1908 a group of female workers living in the US (New York) went on strike, because of the difficult working conditions they were compelled to live in the factory where they worked.
> The boss of the factory, to end with strikes and the complaints of workers, closed the factory in which many women were working, and burnt it. As a consequence, all the women inside died.
> 
> That's why, on the 8th of March, we should celebrate Women's Day, to remember those poor women who died just because they were seeking their rights..


I think you may be confused. In 1909, thousands of garment workers (led by workers at the Triangle Shirtwaist factory) went on strike and successfully gained improvements in wages and working conditions. Then, in 1911, the Triangle Shirtwaist factory burned down, killing 146 of the women who worked there in unsafe and oppressive conditions.  It's not known whether the fire was set intentionally or accidentally, but there's no evidence that the owners set the fire.


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## zazap

Kajjo said:


> I disagree entirely. The inequality is not severe, the laws have been comfortably adapted and Mutterschutz is an entirely excellent law to have -- no matter whether women want to continue to work or not.


Are you aware that we are living in patriarchy?  I think that accepting that truth might open your eyes to the reality out there...There is no equality.  There is a farce parading as equality, in order to hide the sad reality.


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## Brioche

fenixpollo said:


> I agree that it seems strange to celebrate Women's Day. That means that the other 364 days are Men's Days.



What a misandrist comment!

Because there is one Father's Day, does that mean there are 365 _Mother's Day_s?

Does one _Martin Luther King Day_ mean there are 365 _James Earl Ray Days_?

I get very tired of the feminist mantra that all men are advantaged by "patriarchy", and all women disadvantaged.


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## heidita

Brioche said:


> Because there is one Father's Day, does that mean there are 365 _Mother's Day_s?


 
Same silly thing: Mother's day, only once a year or what? Father's day, same thing.



> Does one _Martin Luther King Day_ mean there are 365 _James Earl Ray Days_?


 
I don't think a Martin Luther's day can be compared with all the "celebaration days" invented lately.


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## heidita

Kajjo said:


> . But anyway, I never liked these "day of X" stuff.  What do we really need for these days of dogs, trees, certain diseases, and so on?


 
Yes, what do we need them for?



> If it is a real holiday in Russia, it has possibly another meaning there and might be nice to celebrate, though.


 
The day of "San José" was quite recently also named Father's day here in Spain. It used to be a holiday. I don't think it makes it any better to have it as a holiday.


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## Lillita

übermönch said:


> i'd even say we should trade christmas for it


 
In our fast-changing, money-centered world, it is nice to have holidays like Christmas and Easter and think of him, who is said to have died for all our sins and mistakes, for all the bad things we have done in the past and we will do in the future as well. And last but not least, we do not even have to work/go to school on these days!  Apart from joke...

In my humble opinion, even these non-Christian holidays such as Valentine's Day, Women's Day, whatsoever are nice to celebrate. They give us another opportunity to tell someone that s/he is special for us, and even if we don't have time for being together during workdays or rather, we do not have enough money to go home every day with a big bunch of red roses or chocolate, it is good to have a day when we at least can try to be a bit nicer with those who we love. We can stop for a second or two and say _"I love you"_ or _"Happy Women's Day"_ or _"Happy Valentine's Day"_. And the good news is that saying something like this is FOR FREE, but the smile or hug or _"thank you"_ that you get in return is worth a lot.

Sadly, many people tend to forget about these days, many say that they are useless, we shouldn't waste our time with them. However, I say that till you have someone you can celebrate with these days, celebrate it, seize every opportunity to tell them that you appreciate them. Saying _"Happy Women's Day"_ doesn't cost money and don't think it is only a waste of time. It is never a waste of time to tell someone that s/he is special for you.  

Cheers,
Lilla


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## fenixpollo

Brioche said:


> I get very tired of the feminist mantra that all men are advantaged by "patriarchy", and all women disadvantaged.


 Not all women are disadvantaged. In fact, some men are victims of domestic violence; some men are raped; some men are told that they are inferior because they are men; I imagine that some men are denied promotions or raises at work because they are not women.  However, I know of zero men to whom these things have happened; yet a large number of women I know have experienced these things.  

So, at least anecdotally, I would say that the US is still a patriarchy. Perhaps Australia has matured and is no longer a patriarchy, and statistics about domestic violence and the ratio of females to males in the executive echelons of corporate Australia could corroborate this. Or maybe a quote from Australia's first female chief of state could attest to your egalitarian culture.

Here's an article about a study that says that we are living in a patriarchy, but that many women no longer care. :eek?: http://www.forbes.com/ceonet/2006/03/07/glass-ceiling-opportunities--cx_hc_0308glass.html


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## Kajjo

zazap said:


> Are you aware that we are living in patriarchy?  I think that accepting that truth might open your eyes to the reality out there...There is no equality.  There is a farce parading as equality, in order to hide the sad reality.


Repeating such false statements does not make them more true. The two sexes are different, yes. Open your eyes. Don't you see any differences?

Modern Western nations do not live in a situation that can be honestly described with what the word patriarchy really means. Germany has a female chancellor and the US might get a female president. Wake up and enjoy, do not moan about history.

Kajjo


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## Whodunit

Kajjo said:


> I spoke only on behalf of the _contemporary Germany_ and that is in this case in agreement with the former _West Germany_. I do not know enough about East German habits, but I am fairly sure that I have never consciously heard anything serious about women's day in my whole life. For me such days are political statements, nothing more. Holidays are not meant to be such statements.


 
Kajjo, I'm sorry, but I have to tell you that you're wrong. Women's Day (Frauentag) is very well known among former GDR citizens who still live in Eastern Germany. I've known this day for several years, because this day is the birthday of a (male) friend of mine, so he has always been kidded with that particular day.

However, you're right that that day is nearly unknown among *most* Germans, because the majority of German citizens are those of the "western part," if you like to still separate our country.

Nevertheless, I did not celebrated anything on Women's Day nor did I see anyone give a woman/his girlfriend/wife a present unlike on Valentine's Day. But I wished some of my female friends at school "Happy Women's Day" (Alles Gute zum Frauentag), that's all.


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## zazap

Kajjo said:


> Germany has a female chancellor and the US might get a female president. Wake up and enjoy, do not moan about history.
> 
> Kajjo


If women didn't moan about history, I wouldn't be in a position to enjoy it.  I think that pretending everything is alright and everybody is equal is not the right attitude for social change.  Why are women poorer than men?
Why can't we feel secure at night?  I could go on, but I don't feel particularly inspired right now, more like saddened, plus I had a hard day.


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## Kajjo

zazap said:


> Why can't we feel secure at night?


Crime has nothing at all to do with patriarchy or equal rights or any other political movement of this kind. You sentence is almost insulting as one could think that crimes against women are somewhat tolerated by our society. They are not, neither individually felt nor publicly advocated, neither by men nor women such crimes are accepted at all.

And no political movment whatsoever will make men bear children, make women stronger than men or will change any of the other natural differences. The evolution did not create two sexes for equality, but because different abilities of two sexes can have synergy effects.

Kajjo


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## lizzeymac

Kajjo said:


> And no political movment whatsoever will make men bear children, make women stronger than men or will change any of the other natural differences. The evolution did not create two sexes for equality, but because different abilities of two sexes can have synergy effects.
> 
> Kajjo



You seem to be mistaking equality for "the same as." 
Whether a person can carry a child or carry a heavy weight should not affect the rights & dignity accorded them by society.
-


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## Sorcha

maxiogee said:


> January 6th was a socially recognised "women's day" in old Ireland - known as Nollaig na mBan (The Women's Christmas) the males of the household would wait on the mother in recognition of her contribution to the Christmas celebrations. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have one of them each month until the habit set in.


 
Amen to that!


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## Kajjo

Whodunit said:


> Kajjo, I'm sorry, but I have to tell you that you're wrong. Women's Day (Frauentag) is very well known among former GDR citizens who still live in Eastern Germany. I've known this day for several years, because this day is the birthday of a (male) friend of mine, so he has always been kidded with that particular day.


Interestingly enough, this is exactly what I said. Womens' day is unknown in Western Germany and cannot tell about Eastern Germany. I do not see why you have to say that I am wrong when indeed to second my statement. Your opinion is that in Eastern Germany people still remember the communist driven womens' day. No disagreement at all here.

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

lizzeymac said:


> You seem to be mistaking equality for "the same as." Whether a person can carry a child or carry a heavy weight should not affect the rights & dignity accorded them by society.-


You are right. I never contradicted that. Why do you feel I had?

Kajjo


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## lizzeymac

Kajjo said:


> You are right. I never contradicted that. Why do you feel I had?
> Kajjo




I do not "feel" it.  
I _think_ it, based upon your post.  
Your words seem clear to me.  Perhaps they do not represent your thoughts accurately?
Your posts appear to say that because men & women are not the exact same creatures physically, that they are not equal in society & we women should accept that, & to quote you "stop moaning about history."
As more than one Forrer@ has pointed out, it is not history, it is still current to varying degrees in various countries.   
I am glad to know that (in your opinion) you & all the women you know are not oppressed by patriarchy.  
You might do well to remember that some people still are.




Kajjo said:


> CLIP
> _ And no political movment whatsoever will make men bear children, make women stronger than men or will change any of the other natural differences. *The evolution did not create two sexes for equality,* but because different abilities of two sexes can have synergy effects._
> Kajjo





Kajjo said:


> Repeating such false statements does not make them more true. The two sexes are different, yes. Open your eyes. Don't you see any differences?
> 
> Modern Western nations do not live in a situation that can be honestly described with what the word patriarchy really means. Germany has a female chancellor and the US might get a female president. Wake up and enjoy, do not moan about history.


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## Kajjo

lizzeymac said:


> I do not "feel" it.  I _think_ it, based upon your post. Your words seem clear to me.  Perhaps they do not represent your thoughts accurately?


I expressed my thoughts as clear as possible. You may have a different opinion, but you should not try to twist my words into an opposing meaning.



> Your posts appear to say that because men and women are not the exact same creatures physically that they are not equal in society and we women should accept that


Actually, yes. They are not equal in every regard and it would be fine if each sex focuses on its special abilities. But this has nothing at all to do with dignity or rights, which are both very clearly established in our society. I do not see anything in my or other Western countries that could be taken as "violating the dignity of women", neither do I see legislature doing so.



> to quote you "stop moaning about history".


Yes, when a fight is won, stop arguing. Women and men do have equal rights in Germany and most Western countries. I do not know any legislature against women. Do you? -- Now women should make the best of these rights, enjoy, live. I have the feeling that the successful fight was so refreshing, some people would favor to continue it no matter how meaningless it has become now in some countries.



> I am glad to know that (in your opinion) you and all the women you know are not oppressed by patriarchy.


Do you personally feel actually oppressed by patriarchy? Please give examples of actual personal oppression -- not any "there are some" theories of the political kind.

Kajjo


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## Brioche

zazap said:


> Why are women poorer than men?
> Why can't we feel secure at night?
> I could go on, but I don't feel particularly inspired right now, more like saddened, plus I had a hard day.



In Australia, women are "poorer" than men because they do not work in the same way as men.

There are no "female" rates of pay in Australia, a woman doing the same job as a man gets paid the same wage or salary. 

The lower average pay for women comes about because many women work part-time or casually, or in lower-paying jobs.
If a woman could play basketball as well as Michael Jordan, she'd be paid the same.
In tennis, women get paid the same prize money as men, but don't have to play as many sets.

Men also do more dangerous work, and 90% of those killed at work are men.

It's true that there are more men than women at the top of the heap - [the patriarchs if you like], but there are also more men than women at the bottom of the heap.  Women are in the middle, and men occupy the extremes at both ends.

As for feeling secure at night, more men than women are victims of crime.


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## Şafak

Dünya kadınlar günü kutlu olsun 💐💐💐.

Happy International Women's day.


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