# Working out the verb group by looking at the infinitive



## htims

Hi there,
I'm now in my 2nd year of studying Hebrew. We are looking at present tense verbs. I'm slowly beginning to understand how to group verbs according to the binyanim.  I can arrange verbs into the different categories.  However when I'm presented with a verb in the infinitive and need to choose the correct form of the verb for a sentence, I don't know where to start.

For example הן    ימינה ברחוב יפו
The gap is where the correct form of the verb לפנות should go.

They sentence reads they (turn) right in the road Jaffa.  What is the correct form of the verb לפנות should I use.  How do I know which binyamin, this verb belongs to in order to work out the proper conjugation?

Thanks


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## JaiHare

htims said:


> For example הן ימינה ברחוב יפו
> The gap is where the correct form of the verb לפנות should go.


 
This is kal/pa'al. It's third-heh ("third-weak, lamed-heh"). The correct form is פונות, which agrees with הן and אתן and the feminine אנחנו. It's feminine plural.

הן פונות ימינה ברחוב יפו.

Out of curiosity, where are you studying Hebrew? By second year, you should have already been introduced to both the past and the future (well, at least I think so). I guess I studied Hebrew backwards, first learning biblical and then modern. But, still I think you should be into more than the present tense by now. In _Hebrew from Scratch_ (Akademon) the future is introduced in the beginning of the second level.

Regards,
Jai


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## Nunty

Htims, in exercises like that you have to figure out the _shoresh_ (the root) from the infinitive, decide which _binyan_ should be used in that sentence, then figure out what tense, person, gender and number are required for the answer, then correctly conjugate the verb and plug it in.

In an exercise like הן _____ (לפנות) ימינה ברח' יפו.       you don't have all the information, unless you know that this is an exercise in the present tense. Once you know the tense, you look at the infinitive לפנות. You know that you can drop off the ל and you have probably learned that the ות of the infinitive replace a ה in the _shoresh_. That gives you פ'נ'ה'. 

The sense of the sentence makes it clear that you need to use _binyan kal (pa'al). _The base form of the verb, then, is פנה. Since you have a third person feminine plural and you know that the exercise is in the present tense, you are left with פונות.

See? Easy-peasy.


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## htims

Nunty said:


> Htims, in exercises like that you have to figure out the _shoresh_ (the root) from the infinitive, decide which _binyan_ should be used in that sentence, then figure out what tense, person, gender and number are required for the answer, then correctly conjugate the verb and plug it in.
> 
> In an exercise like הן _____ (לפנות) ימינה ברח' יפו.  you don't have all the information, unless you know that this is an exercise in the present tense. Once you know the tense, you look at the infinitive לפנות. You know that you can drop off the ל and you have probably learned that the ות of the infinitive replace a ה in the _shoresh_. That gives you פ'נ'ה'.
> 
> The sense of the sentence makes it clear that you need to use _binyan kal (pa'al). _The base form of the verb, then, is פנה. Since you have a third person feminine plural and you know that the exercise is in the present tense, you are left with פונות.
> 
> See? Easy-peasy.



Thanks Nunty!!  Your explanation makes it really easy to understand.
Kind Regards


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## Nunty

I should have added that לפנות without _nikud_ could be _pa'al_ or _pi'el_. Your clue in this sentence is the prepositional prefix ב. If it had been את then you would have needed _pi'el._


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## hadronic

Precisely, to disambiguate between לפנות lifnot / lefanot, would it be possible to write lifnot as ליפנות , for the specific case of the ל"ה  ? 
Likewise for להפנות (hif'il) and להיפנות (nif'al) ?


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## MaNitma

hadronic said:


> Precisely, to disambiguate between לפנות lifnot / lefanot, would it be possible to write lifnot as ליפנות , for the specific case of the ל"ה  ?
> Likewise for להפנות (hif'il) and להיפנות (nif'al) ?



Well, every now and then you could see _Lifnot _written as "ליפנות", but it is usually considered a very crude type of _ktiv-male_ ("כתיב-מלא", I don't know the English term for it). I don't think it's even grammatical (not sure though). It's usually considered bad Hebrew.


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## hadronic

Any type of ktiv male (addition of previously unexistant yod and vav) is agrammatical, in ANY case. 
So at some point, which rules you allow to be broken, is another story 
Why ליפעול would be considered as bad, I don't really understand. 
להיפעל / תיפעל is as bad. Both yods are in firmly closed syllables : the first before a schwa nakh, and the second before a dagesh khazak, that actually acts as a schwa nakh.


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## MaNitma

It's not a strong "BAD"  That came out a little harsh.
I meant that usually, as I said, it's considered a more "crude" version of the word.


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## MaNitma

hadronic said:


> Any type of ktiv male (addition of previously unexistant yod and vav) is agrammatical, in ANY case.
> So at some point, which rules you allow to be broken, is another story
> Why ליפעול would be considered as bad, I don't really understand.
> להיפעל / תיפעל is as bad. Both yods are in firmly closed syllables : the first before a schwa nakh, and the second before a dagesh khazak, that actually acts as a schwa nakh.



That's another thing I've been wanting to say for a while.
I find it very delighting to see that people here actually know the technical details of my mother-tongue -- details that sometimes I myself don't know exactly how-and-why they are. Unfortunately the school system in Israel doesn't dig deep enough into the Hebrew language when teaching its grammar to children.

That's a big advantage in actually studying the language thoroughly rather than just growing up with it.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who is Russian. I once asked him why some verb is conjugated the way it is. He said "I can't tell you why, it's just the way it is". Back then it surprised me, but now being on the other side, I can see where he came from.


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## origumi

The issue of _ktiv male_ pops up again and again. First of all, there are decisions of the Akademia, for example http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/decision4.html. Secondly, I agree that (as in many other issues) the voice of the people is more significant than decisions on paper.

Adding too many iods and vavs in plapces where they are usually omitted is considered bad writing with reason: this is almost always accompanied by many other spelling mistakes. There are gray areas, and yet לישמור or להיסתכל causes ache to the reader's eyes.

Also, in certain periods the _ktiv _was much more _male_ than today. You can find examples in the Bible and many more in later times, such as 1st-2nd centuries. I suspect that this _ktiv-_too-_male_ is the result of speaking Hebrew as the second language by practically everybody at the time, and also under Greek influence.


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