# Odmiana zawodow-m & f



## delicja

Are there any rules for declination of professions or is it like with cities ( my earlier post) that there are but there is ton of exceptions?

Like 

Kelner-kelnerka
kucharz-kucharka 

etc


----------



## robin74

delicja said:


> Are there any rules for declination of professions or is it like with cities ( my earlier post) that there are but there is ton of exceptions?


Like with the cities  "-ka" is indeed a very productive suffix to create a feminine version but not all professions do that (some female professions retain the masculine form, some use different suffixes (wychowawca / wychowawczyni)), and sometimes the word could change the meaning completely by adding -ka (like maszynista = train driver / maszynistka = typist).


----------



## BezierCurve

As far as those job offers are concerned, just one (usually the male) form will suffice. Of course, unless some emlpoyer is very particular about the sex of their future employees.


----------



## wobagi

robin74 said:


> Like with the cities  "-ka" is indeed a very productive suffix to create a feminine version but not all professions do that (some female professions retain the masculine form, some use different suffixes (wychowawca / wychowawczyni)), and sometimes the word could change the meaning completely by adding -ka (like maszynista = train driver / maszynistka = typist).



some female professions retain the m form, but there are also professions (at least one) with only the f form: przedszkolanka = kindergarten teacher


----------



## Ben Jamin

delicja said:


> Are there any rules for declination of professions or is it like with cities ( my earlier post) that there are but there is ton of exceptions?
> 
> Like
> 
> Kelner-kelnerka
> kucharz-kucharka
> 
> etc


To change the gender of a profession designation is not to decline. Declination is using the cases (genitive, accusative, etc). You ask about word formation. There is no one general rule, but there are many suffixes that can do the job. -ka is one of them, and maybe the most productive one. In the time of political correctness there is a tendency in Polish to drop the the traditional feminine forms, but many Poles find it artificial and ugly.


----------



## Piotr_WRF

Here's a link to a thread that covered this topic: Czasownik w rodzaju żeńskim z podmiotem męskim.
And this one also touched the issue along the way: Dziesięcioro zawodników.

Both are in Polish only.

And I'm not completely sure that the feminine forms tend to be dropped because of political correctness; I'd say it's the other way around: feminine forms are often forcefully and artificially introduced due to political correctness.


----------



## Ben Jamin

Piotr_WRF said:


> Here's a link to a thread that covered this topic: Czasownik w rodzaju żeńskim z podmiotem męskim.
> And this one also touched the issue along the way: Dziesięcioro zawodników.
> 
> Both are in Polish only.
> 
> And I'm not completely sure that the feminine forms tend to be dropped because of political correctness; I'd say it's the other way around: feminine forms are often forcefully and artificially introduced due to political correctness.


 Can you give any examples?


----------



## Piotr_WRF

Ben Jamin said:


> Can you give any examples?



_Psycholożka_ and all the other forms ending in _-lożka_, _filozofka_, _dyrektorka_, _profesorka_, _administratorka_, _prezeska_ and so forth.


----------



## Ben Jamin

Piotr_WRF said:


> _Psycholożka_ and all the other forms ending in _-lożka_, _filozofka_, _dyrektorka_, _profesorka_, _administratorka_, _prezeska_ and so forth.


Dyrektorka, profesorka and administratorka are old words, created before political correctness came into fashion. The world trend in political correctness is to introduce "gender neutral" terms, for instance "chairperson" instead of "chairman", to combat "male supremacy". 
In Poland the trend has been to use only male forms of nouns on women in professions or positions where a female form could be used (dyrektorka), which causes a problem with inflecting (but this should be taken in a new thread). 
Creating new female nouns does not fit into this trend, so I would not call it "political correctness".


----------



## Piotr_WRF

Creating gender neutral names for professions as a result of political correctness may be the case in English speaking countries, but I don't think this is true in Poland. Here, newly created female names or old ones that haven't been used in the last few decades are a sign of political correctness or emancipation of women. This article whose link was posted in the other thread I mentioned previously may explain why mainly male names have been used, which happened earlier than the application of political correctness as a concept in the USA for example, let alone Poland.


----------



## majlo

Piotr_WRF said:


> And I'm not completely sure that the feminine forms tend to be dropped because of political correctness; I'd say it's the other way around: feminine forms are often forcefully and artificially introduced due to political correctness.



Exactly my point (unfortunately deleted by the moderator). Political correctness, which is making its way in Poland too, "suggests" using these artificial forms, not the other way about.


----------



## Outsider

Ben Jamin said:


> Dyrektorka, profesorka and administratorka are old words, created before political correctness came into fashion. The world trend in political correctness is to introduce "gender neutral" terms, for instance "chairperson" instead of "chairman", to combat "male supremacy".


I don't think it's a world trend. I've noticed that in languages where grammatical gender does not exist or is residual, like English and the North Germanic languages, the trend is to phase out gendered words; but in languages with pervasive masculine-feminine distinctions like Spanish or French the goal is to create and use new feminine counterparts to the masculine terms.

Having said this, the situation may be different in the Slavic languages...


----------



## Ben Jamin

Outsider said:


> I don't think it's a world trend. I've noticed that in languages where grammatical gender does not exist or is residual, like English and the North Germanic languages, the trend is to phase out gendered words; but in languages with pervasive masculine-feminine distinctions like Spanish or French the goal is to create and use new feminine counterparts to the masculine terms.
> 
> Having said this, the situation may be different in the Slavic languages...


 I live just in the Scandinavian/Anglophone language world where the trend is exactly the one you just described. When I lived in Poland, the trend was to eliminate the feminine profession words (Dyrektor instead of Dyrektorka). Under my conversations with persons living in Poland I have noticed that female physicians present themselves "jestem lekarzem" (not "lekarką". I read Polish web press every day, and I cannot see many feminine forms, except perhaps for "posłanka". So, maybe this trend you describe exists, but I personally do not experience it.


----------

