# Hindi, Marathi, Urdu: Days of the week



## Subhash Kumar

I know that in Hindi the following are the seven days of a week:
Soomwaar, Mangalwaar, Budhwaar, Guruwaar (or Bruhaspatiwaar), Shukrawaar, Shaniwaar, Raviwaar
सोमवार मंगलवार बुधवार गुरुवार (or बृहस्पतिवार) शुक्रवार शनिवार रविवार 
In Urdu, as far as I understand, following are the seven days of a week:
Piir, Mangal, Budh, Jumeraat, Jumma, Shanichar, Aetwaar.
Urduphones, can you please confirm.
Assuming that my understanding is correct, I notice that four of these seven are different from Hindi. What are these names (Piir, Jumeraat, Jumma and Aetwaar) derived from? Are they any way related to planets/stars like in Hindi?
like Soom is Moon, Guru is Jupiter, Shukra is Venus and Ravi is the Sun.

Note: I have also heard Aetwaar for Sunday in Hindi as well; but I suppose Raviwaar is more correct Hindi.


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## Faylasoof

Subhash,

In Urdu, the most commonly used names for days of the week are _almost_ as you say:

Piir پير , Mangal مَنگَل , Budh بدھ , Jum3eraat جمعرات , Jum3ah جُمعَہ , Haftah ہفتہ (Saniichar), Itwaar اِتوار .

But we also have the essentially Persian derived names:

doshambah دو شنبہ , sehshambah سَہ شنبہ , chahaarshambah چہار شنبہ , panjshambah  پنج شنبہ , jum3ah جُمعَہ ,  shambah  شنبہ , yakshambah  یک شنبہ . - same order as above. 

Saniichar is still used by some people as are Somwaar, Mangalwaar, Budhwaar. However their use has declined over the years.


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## panjabigator

Hi Subhash,

These posts might be useful to you:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1207874&highlight=days

and

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=182130&highlight=days

Many Urdu speakers use the word <haftā> in lieu of <shanichar>.  Doesn't jum'a have to do with Friday prayers?  And that would make jumerat the night before juma?


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## Subhash Kumar

Thanks panjabigator for pointing to the threads already there on the forum. Sorry for not looking at them before posing my question.


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## panjabigator

Not a problem.  Curious, what are they in Marathi?


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## tamah

panjabigator said:


> Not a problem.  Curious, what are they in Marathi?


In Marathi they are exactly same as Hindi which are quoted by Subhash kumar in his question. Just that in marathi 'ळ' is used instead of 'ल' 
So the only difference is मंगलवार in Hindi and मंगळवार in Marathi. Thats it.


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## Expatobserver

Urdu Itwaar is a corruption of Adityawaar. BTW, all my Pakistani friends (I have 317 friends from the land of the pure) understand Hindi names for days.


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## Cilquiestsuens

Expatobserver said:


> Urdu Itwaar is a corruption of Adityawaar.


 
Interesting.

Just one remark concerning what has been said above about Urdu :

*sanichar* is not an Urdu word and is never used in PK Urdu.

Apart from *piir* for monday, PK Urdu speakers still use a lot the word *somwaar*.

As for other days of the week, I have to tell you that many of the PK Urdu speakers I know (more than 317) are not aware of the meanings of words such as *guruwaar / brihaspatiwaar / shukrawaar*... So I wouldn't say that Urdu speakers know Hindi names of the day that well...


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## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> *sanichar* is not an Urdu word and is never used in PK Urdu.



I didn't claim that _sanichar_ is an "Urdu" word - hence the brackets. Its use has sharply declined but was used but many "Karachiites" (including Urduphones) when I was there years ago.


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## Expatobserver

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Just one remark concerning what has been said above about Urdu :
> 
> *sanichar* is not an Urdu word and is never used in PK Urdu.
> 
> Apart from *piir* for monday, PK Urdu speakers still use a lot the word *somwaar*.
> 
> As for other days of the week, I have to tell you that many of the PK Urdu speakers I know (more than 317) are not aware of the meanings of words such as *guruwaar / brihaspatiwaar / shukrawaar*... So I wouldn't say that Urdu speakers know Hindi names of the day that well...


 
Pakistan bada mulk hain. wo depend karata hain aapke dost kahanke hain. Most Pak Punjabi speakers understand Hindi names. I made a small mistake, I have 318 PK friends. I forgot Jabbar. Funny thing, If I say to Jabbar Chalo bhai Jabbar muzhe Gurwaar milana alane falane hotel men, tumhe achha khana khilata hoon, tau he know perfectly well which day. Haina kamaal?


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## Cilquiestsuens

kamaal to hai magar ek khaas paRhe likkhe aadmii ka. Asal mein zyaadatar Paksitani log nahin jaante khaas taur pe woh tiin naam nahin jaante jin kaa main ne zikar kiyaa hai... Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain... Kyonki is mulk mein yeh saare alfaz Hindi movies mein hi sunne ko milte hain... Yeh aur baat hai ki khaas urdu bolne wale muhaajiron mein sey kuchh aisey buzurg hazraat bhii maujood hain jin ko aaj tak yeh saarey naam achi tarah sey yaad hain, jo ki apney bachpan mein apne hindu hamsaayon se suna karte the.


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## bakshink

I too think at least guruvaar and Brihaspatvaar (Both names of Jupiter planet) may not be understood in Pakistan but all others because of Punjabi influence may be. Also if Aitvaar or Itvaar comes from the word "Aditya" which also means Sun then what's the Urdu word of Persian, Arabic origin for it?


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## BP.

bakshink said:


> ... Also if Aitvaar or Itvaar comes from the word "Aditya" which also means Sun then what's the Urdu word of Persian, Arabic origin for it?


Since Monday is _do shamba_, Sunday should be _yak shamba_-یک شنبہ, though _itwaar _is almost exclusively used. The _-shamba_ system has all but vanished in favour of Sanskrit-based day-names for the first half of the week.


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## panjabigator

Platts says that "rabivār" comes from Aramaic.   Interesting!


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## Cilquiestsuens

This is an interesting discussion I was delighted finding out the origin of itwaar.... (> aditya, Deity of the Sun).

There are no alternate Urdu words for itwaar, mangal(waar) et budh(war). Urdu retained the name of a number of Hindu planets for naming the days of the week. Look at romance languages which use the name of planets coming from Roman mythology while English uses those of Nordic mythology. 

The fact is that the languages Urdu relied on to borrow most of its cultural identity don't use planet names but numbers for days of the week (Arabic & Persian). Urdu really has a mixed and quite unique system.

Can anyone explain the origin of *Piir* (means 'old' in Farsi) ?????

Pg, Ravivaar comes from sanskrit *ravi = sun* (don't think Sanskrit has only one word for the sun!). So I have to disagree with Platt's etymology.


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## BP.

The two _piiraan _wouldn't be related.


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## Expatobserver

Cilquiestsuens said:


> kamaal to hai magar ek khaas paRhe likkhe aadmii ka. Asal mein zyaadatar Paksitani log nahin jaante khaas taur pe woh tiin naam nahin jaante jin kaa main ne zikar kiyaa hai... Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain... Kyonki is mulk mein yeh saare alfaz Hindi movies mein hi sunne ko milte hain... Yeh aur baat hai ki khaas urdu bolne wale muhaajiron mein sey kuchh aisey buzurg hazraat bhii maujood hain jin ko aaj tak yeh saarey naam achi tarah sey yaad hain, jo ki apney bachpan mein apne hindu hamsaayon se suna karte the.



Agar aap jo kahate hon woh such hain, tau mujhe shaq hain ke Jabbar nahi samjha kis din maine usko bulaya tha, wo tau bechara har din wahan jaake dekhta hoga ke main wahan hoon ke nahi!


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## Faylasoof

bakshink said:


> … Also if Aitvaar or Itvaar comes from the word "Aditya" which also means Sun then what's the Urdu word of Persian, Arabic origin for it?


 
Here  is Platts about the Adityawaar -> Itwaar.

 Also, in my post # 2 above, all the Persian days of the week are listed. Although some of us may know the same in Arabic but we don’t actually use them.



BelligerentPacifist said:


> …The _-shamba_ system has all but vanished in favour of Sanskrit-based day-names for the first half of the week.


 
This is very much true! However, those like us who also happen to be Farsiphones, continue to employ the _shambah_ system in parallel with the standard Sanskrit-Urdu system. Even for us, the _latter is more frequent_ in daily use.



Cilquiestsuens said:


> Pg, Ravivaar comes from sanskrit *ravi = sun* (don't think Sanskrit has only one word for the sun!). So I have to disagree with Platt's etymology.


 
Platts does get it wrong sometimes! I know of other examples too.

 I think you are right. Platt’s suggestion of *rabibar (rabiibaar) *seems quite odd since in Hebrew-Aramiac, _rabi_ (_rabbii_)  = teacher, instructor and the Aramaic _bar_  = son (of). This_ bar _gained fame because of the name, Barabbas - a Hellenization of the Aramaic name, _Bar Abba_ (בר אבא). Literally means “son of (= _bar_) the father (= _abba_)". The person who was released instead of Jesus, thus escaping crucifixion.  
 


Cilquiestsuens said:


> Can anyone explain the origin of *Piir* (means 'old' in Farsi) ?????


 
Unfortunately most dictionaries do not clarify the etymology for this other than lumping this *piir *(Monday)with the other, meaning <old, a spiritual guide, priest etc.>. But there are various suggestions (may be none credible I guess), like Monday once having a special reverence value or something as such, hence the name *piir*! 

*Piir*  certainly makes many compounds, some of which may be of a reverential nature:

 پِیرِ سَرانْدِیب_ piir-e-saraadiib_ = Adam
 پِیرِ کَنْعاں_ piir-e-kan3aa.n_ = Jacob (the prophet).
 پِیرِ مُغاں_ piir-e-mughaa.n_ = spiritual guide; a tavern keeper(!)

 [As Hafiz says:
 بمے سجادہ رنگیں گرت پیر مغاں گوید
 کہ سالک بیخبر نہ بود ز راہ و رسم منزلہا
 (حافظ)

 Same usage in Urdu:

 بیٹھا ہے آج رندوں میں پیرِ مغاں بنا
 نواب کل تو مدعی احتساب تھا
_Anon_  ]

 پِیرِ بَیعَت_ piir-e-bay3at_ = مرشد murshid 
 پِیرِ دَہْقانِ فَلَک_ piir-e-dahqaa.n falak_ = sky, firmament.
 پِیرِ مَے فَروش_ piir-e-mai farosh_ = tavern keeper (literally “wine seller” - not cellar!). But also a guiding elder.

 There are, however, also the general and mundane or just plain negative usages of *piir*, e.g. 

 پِیر زَن_ piir zan _= old woman; پِیر مَرد_ piir mard _= old man,   پِیر سال_ piir saal_ = old; پِیرِ خَرِف_ piir-e-xarif_ = senile old person; پِیرِ تَسمَہ پا_ piir-e-tasmah paa_ = figuratively, an unending trial and tribulation (refers to a nasty character in Persian literature) = a millstone round the neck.

*Piir*  etymology for Monday seems unclear to me as I don’t know whether I should believe the point about it being sacred, though some people have tried to convey this meaning to me.


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## UrduMedium

This has been a vexing question since someone (a Hindi speaker) asked me what's the origin of the word 'pir' for Monday. No one seems to know. However, finally I did come across a link that seems to give some credible meaning to it.

Since a sa new user I cannot post a URL, I am copying the content of the entry for the word from www dot clepk dot org / oud / viewword.aspx?refid=14424 below. 
فارسی زبان میں مستعمل، 'دوشنبہ' کو متبرک سمجھتے ہوئے 'پیر' کی مناسبت سے 'پیر' کہنا شروع کر دیا۔ 1695ء میں "دیپک پتنگ" میں مستعمل ملتا ہے۔ 

اسم  معرفہ (  مذکر - واحد  ) 
  1. اتوار کے بعد کا دن، دوشنبہ، سوموار۔
 پادری سے وہ ملے پہلے تو کیا شیخ کو عذر
​دیکھیے پیر کا نمبر تو ہے اتوار کے بعد     ( کلیات، اکبر، 227:3 )


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## UrduMedium

OK starting a new thread under Urdu-Persian heading to further pursue this ...


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## Sheikh_14

BP. said:


> Since Monday is _do shamba_, Sunday should be _yak shamba_-یک شنبہ, though _itwaar _is almost exclusively used. The _-shamba_ system has all but vanished in favour of Sanskrit-based day-names for the first half of the week.



Is there any reason in particular why perso-phones write shanbeh phonetically whilst Urdu speakers do not write it to the letter of the word. Does one language stick to the nuun and the other treat it as a miim (م) for one reason or another? Would highly appreciate your troubles in explaining the variance.


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## desi4life

In Hindi, besides the usual गुरुवार _guruvaar_, one of the words for Thursday is वीरवार _viirvaar_, presumably a borrowing from Punjabi. Is the _viir _of _viirvaar _a derivative of वृहस्पति _vrihaspati _(variant of बृहस्पति _brihaspati_)? I haven't been able to find any information about the origin of वीरवार. For reference, one of the words for Sunday in Hindi is इतवार _itvaar, _and the इत _it_ is supposedly a derivative of आदित्य _aaditya_. Does _vrihaspati _> _viir _seem plausible, or is it the usual _viir _"hero, brave man, brother" as a substitution of _guru_?


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## desi4life

Just in case it was missed: do any of you know the answer to my question above?


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## Asad Zaidi

panjabigator said:


> Hi Subhash,
> 
> These posts might be useful to you:
> 
> Urdu: days of the week
> 
> and
> 
> Persian: Days of the week
> 
> Many Urdu speakers use the word <haftā> in lieu of <shanichar>.  Doesn't jum'a have to do with Friday prayers?  And that would make jumerat the night before juma?



Yes, I believe that Friday is called Kumar because of the Friday prayer. Also, while Jumeraat does technically mean “Friday night”, the usual word for Friday night would be “Shab-e-Jumah” since Jumeraat refers to Thursday. Incidentally, when we say “Shab-e-Jumah” in Urdu we are referring to the night before Friday. In the Islamic lunar calendar night comes before day. So a sunset marks the beginning of the day/ date, not midnight. Nevertheless, people use the midnight rule because the Georgian calendar is used for everyday purposes. 

And I think Saturday is called Hafta because it’s the end of the week (A week is called hafta in Urdu, and also in Hindi I believe). 
Personally, I’ve never heard people saying “Shanichar” in Urdu in Karachi. But my observation may be limited.


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## desi4life

Asad Zaidi said:


> Yes, I believe that Friday is called Kumar because of the Friday prayer.



I've never heard of "kumar" for Friday. Do you mean "juma"?


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## Asad Zaidi

LOL stupid auto correct! Yes, I meant Juma.


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