# bête noire



## Dixon

Moderator Note: Several threads have been merged to create this on. 

How is bette noire translated?


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## Tresley

If you mean 'bête noire', then you can translate it as something like 'pet hate' or 'pet aversion'.


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## Moulin a vent

Also in the U.K. we would say about a person - 'c'est ma bete noire' - ' I
just can't stand him'.


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## la reine victoria

I agree Moulin.


"A detested person".




LRV


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## Kelly B

In certain literary contexts, bête noire is used in English without translation.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bete+noir


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## polaire

Kelly B said:
			
		

> In certain literary contexts, bête noire is used in English without translation.
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bete+noir



Yes, in numerous contexts.


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## slanzai

Tresley said:
			
		

> If you mean 'bête noire', then you can translate it as something like 'pet hate' or 'pet aversion'.



I've never heard either of those terms used (difference between UK and American English?), but if you're talking about a thing, then the most natural translation into American English would probably be "pet peeve."


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## Tresley

slanzai said:
			
		

> the most natural translation into American English would probably be "pet peeve."


 
'Pet peeve' means nothing to me.


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## la reine victoria

'Pet peeve' to me says 'the thing which bugs me most'.  Is that anywhere near?



Thanks.





LRV


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## JamesM

Interesting... I'd second slanzai (and LRV... sorry) in saying that "pet peeve" is very common and natural-sounding in American English, where "pet aversion" would sound like a condition that caused a person to fear house cats and dogs.  I think if someone had a particular aversion to something, we'd say, "Oh, that's just his phobia about (blank)."

Another one of those differences between BE and AE, I guess. Fascinating.

- James


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## viera

"Bête noire" can refer to a person or thing.
Can "pet peeve" be used for both?


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## slanzai

I would only use "pet peeve" to refer to a thing.


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## JamesM

viera said:
			
		

> "Bête noire" can refer to a person or thing.
> Can "pet peeve" be used for both?


 
No.  A pet peeve is a thing or a circumstance.  I can't think of a phrase that labels a person as a pet hatred... I think we'd say, "he drives me nuts" or "I can't stand him", but I can't think of any way we'd finish the phrase "He's my (blank)" and have it mean the same thing.  

If he/she is constantly aggravating and causes me nothing but trouble, I might say, "He's the (blank) from Hell", e.g., "He's the boss from Hell" or "she's the schoolteacher from Hell", but there's no "my" in the phrase.  I wouldn't say "He's *my* boss from Hell."  That would sound very strange.

I'm looking forward to what others come up with.

- James


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## Afro-Cherokee

Just to clear things up. "pet peeve" is indeed the correct translation for "bête noire" and it does indeed in english mean something that causes irritation or annoyance to a person. it is not really used for things (e.g. people, dogs, cats, etc.), but rather something about a person that bothers you. (the actions of the thing). for instance, it is a big pet peeve of mine when my dog stares at me while I am eating. I just get really angry.
OR
It is a pet peeve of mine the way the wind blows in holland. especially when it is cold and rainy.

In addition, a person or thing that performs these pet-peeveish actions can be called many things... an annoyance, a bugaboo (people and animals), an irritance and so forth.


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## dtaggart

Pet peeve is all good and well for circumstances though I wouldn´t say it personally, but for people THORN IN MY SIDE or NEMESIS are preferable.

George Galloway- une bète noire/ a thorn in Tony's side (yet all right by me


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## LARSAY

Considering that a _bete noire_ is a person or a thing that one detests the most, Pet peeve (Webster dictionary: a frequent subject of complaint) is not strong enough, Nemesis is a beautiful word, but not accurate either (_Nemesis _was the Greek Goddess of retributive justice, so a Nemesis is one that inflicts retribution or vengeance). Sometimes, we have to admit that there is no real equivalent in another language, which explains why the French expression is often used in English (another very good example is "Film Noir"). 
Now, I use the Webster dictionary as my English Bible. believe it or not, it does lists _bete noire_  as an expression commonly used in English, and gives a synonym : *bugbear *(definition: an object or source of dread). _Bugaboo _is also defined in it as "Something that causes fear or distress", but "out of proportion to its importance", which is a restriction; it also gives _bugbear _as a synonym. So, I vote for keeping _Bete Noire _or using_ Bugbear._


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## dtaggart

Being that the primary definitions of _*nemesis*_ are not dealing with retribution and revenge but in fact about a source of distress, harm and the unbeatable, nemesis indeed fits. 

 1. *unbeatable opponent: *a bitter enemy, especially one who seems unbeatable

2. *source of harm: *a source of harm or ruin. Chocolate chip cookies are my real nemesis.


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## Ign4tius

FWIW, I strongly second that acception of "unbeatable opponent" which hadn't been mentioned earlier in the thread.

In sports, e.g., this usually refers to an opponent that may be seens as weaker, but whom, for some reason, has been particularly hard to beat. 


For example, Guillermo Canas (current #17) is commonly refered to as Federer's (current #1) "bête noire" (as a search in Google news for  "fereder bête-noire" will confirm). 


Just my 0.02€...


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## indie_kid123

It can also be translated as 'the bane of my life'.


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## ovejanegra

Another option:

*anathema* - a detested person; "he is an anathema to me"bete noire

*Source:* The Free Dictionary


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## funnyhat

indie_kid123 said:


> It can also be translated as 'the bane of my life'.


 
I like this one! (I typically say it as "bane of my existence.")


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## LuliWR

imho Nemesis is an excellent translation for bête noire, though it might be a bit strong in some contexts.
I have a problem with pet peeve, in some cases it's perfect, but it is not exactly translating the meaning of bête noire. Bête noire is used for something that annoys you, but above all, for something that you dread because you are affraid that it is going to destruct you (which nemesis perfectly translates). Therefore I'd rather translate "c'est ma bête noire" by "it is my worst dread/fear", the good thing is it works for people and things, just like "bete noire" in French.
But as long as the context allows it I'd use nemesis - and not Nemesis.
Some examples in French :
- Pour les examens de fin d'année, les mathématiques ont toujours été ma bête noire. (you fear it, it makes you fail) 
- Les journalistes iraniens qui dénoncent les élections récentes sont devenus la bête noire du régime totalitaire de son pays. (they are feared, considered dangerous)
- Aux jeux olympiques d'hiver de Vancouver, les épreuves de ski alpin ont été la bête noire des skieurs français.(the most difficult part, the reason of the failure... the nemesis)

if you are speaking: for "c'est ma bête noire" just say "this is THE thing I fear", it's a clear and simple translation...


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## blackvesper

Hi, could someone tell me what it means? i have no clue...


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## wistou

We say "bête noire"  and  "bugbear" should be a close equivalent : someone or something that keeps frightening or bothering you.


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## sweetyshirley

Could you help me to translate that sentence please:
"La plupart d'entre eux meparlaient du cours d'anglais comme de leur _bêtenoire_,non pas à  de leur professeur mais seulement à cause de ladifficulté de la langue elle-même."

-> "Most of them mentioned / talked about English lesson as their ______ , not because of their teacher but rather because of the difficulty of learning the language itself."

Does this make sense? Is it correct? How shall I translate "bête noire"?
Thanks!


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## Jab'

worst nightmare ?


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## ColinForhan

So "bête noire" means something you hate, right? Or something that's really difficult? 

"Most of them talked about their English class like it was hell on earth, not because of their teacher, but just because of the difficulty of the language itself."

"hell on earth" is kind of a strong expression. I see on wordreference they translate "bête noire" as "pet peeve," but that word really doesn't work in this context in English. A "pet peeve" is really a very small, small thing that annoys you. Like when people crack their knuckles, or when someone says "comme même" instead of "quand même." But an English class can't really be your "pet peeve."

Jab' makes a very good suggestion. Worst nightmare is a good one to use, I think.


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## sweetyshirley

Ok, I will use "worst nightmare" and I keep "hell on earth" in my mind as a definition of the next 20 pages I still have to translate! 
Thank you Jab' and ColinForhan for your help!


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## demoiselle_hirondelle

I think it's not properly "something you hate" but something that you dread. Like your "worst foe/enemy". So :_like it was hell on earth_: is maybe a little too much to go with the sense. I think...


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## mdb

Just as a side note, I've seen _bete noire _used in English untranslated quite commonly. Another potential translation could be "nemesis" if you are talking about a person.


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## sweetyshirley

Really? I didn't know that! 
Thank you!


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## ColinForhan

Wow really? I've never heard it, but it's good to know it exists in English


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