# infinitive clauses/ medium voice (Ancient Greek)



## Angelo di fuoco

Hi there!

I've only recently begun studying Ancient Greek on my own and now I've come to a point where I'v got stuck and neither can deduce the rules from the textbook nor from my two grammar books.
One of my main problems is the medium voice, which I don't really understand yet. Then there's another problem: I don't quite understand which cases to use in infinitive clauses, but this is the subject for another thread.

Νομίζουσι γὰρ τὸν ἄνθρωπον καὶ τῷ γυμνάζεσθαι ὑγιαίνειν.

This sentence from my textbook is particularly hard. I can tell virtually the meaning of every single word, but the words do not put themselves together into a meaningful sentence.
They think - for (conjunction) - the human being (Acc. sg.) - and - the workout (medium voice infinitive in nominal function, Dat. sg., instrument/ by means of?) - to be healthy.
Can anybody tell me what this sentence actually means?


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## Perseas

For they think that a human being is heathy also (_και_ means _also_ here) by training himself (by doing gymnastics/physical exercises for himself).

You can understand the medium voice of "γυμνάζομαι" if you have in mind "I train myself".
The infinitive ὑγιαίνειν is the object of the verb νομίζουσι.
τῷ γυμνάζεσθαι is dative and expresses the way (how?)


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## Angelo di fuoco

Thank you!
I had forgotten (or somehow never got it into my mind) that _kaί_ had other meanings beside _and_.
If I understand the sentence correctly, the subject is implied in the verbal predicate νομίζουσι, while the object of the sentence ist "τὸν ἄνθρωπον καὶ τῷ γυμνάζεσθαι ὑγιαίνειν" (you may omit kaί and τῷ γυμνάζεσθαι if you like).
The medium voice corresponds to a certain degree to reflexive verbs in other languages. Right?


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## Angelo di fuoco

So "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σῷζεσθαι" can mean both "It is necessary that the friend be saved" and "It is necessary that the friend save himself"?


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## Perseas

Angelo di fuoco said:


> If I understand the sentence correctly, the subject is implied in the verbal predicate νομίζουσι, while the object of the sentence ist "τὸν ἄνθρωπον καὶ τῷ γυμνάζεσθαι ὑγιαίνειν"


The ending -ουσι tells that the subject of the verb is 3rd person plural (they). The object of the verb is the infinitive ὑγιαίνειν and the subject of the infinitive is the accusative τὸν ἄνθρωπον.



Angelo di fuoco said:


> The medium voice corresponds to a certain degree to reflexive verbs in other languages. Right?


Yes, true.


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## Perseas

Angelo di fuoco said:


> So "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σῷζεσθαι" can mean both "It is necessary that the friend be saved" and "It is necessary that the friend save himself"?


I believe that the first one is correct, therefore the infinitive is in passive.
I would say_ χρὴ τὸν φίλον εαυτόν σώζεσθαι _for the second translation.


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## Angelo di fuoco

I've got to learn _εαυτόν_ yet, so I go for the first translation. Thanks.


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## Perseas

The important in "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σώζεσθαι" is that the friend must be safe anyway. We don't have context but it reminds me of situations when an orator tries to persuade the people that they should help their friends/allies.
_εαυτόν _would make it easier to understand that the friend saves himself.


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## Angelo di fuoco

There is no further context except that "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σώζεσθαι" is opposed to "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σώζειν".
In the textbook after the text of every lection there is a series of sentences to illustrate new grammar or to introduce forms that haven't been introduced in the main text yet, and that is one of them. I just translate them as a further exercise, in order to better understand the grammar.


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## Scholiast

χαῖρετε ὦριστοι!

There is perhaps one other detail in Angelo di fuoco's original question that calls for an explanation, namely that the infinitive (here γυμνάζεσθαι) can be used (as in German) as a noun, with a definite article to convey the grammatical case.  So "Sie behaupten, der Mensch werde auch durch das [körperliche] Üben bereinigt" or something like that.

The middle voice is indeed a bit of a puzzle for students, but indeed it is often (unfortunately not systematically) reflexive, as in λούειν (active, "bathe [e.g. a baby]"), but λούομαι (med., "bathe" intransitive).

I hope this is helpful, and good luck with the studies.

Σ


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## Angelo di fuoco

Leibesübung(en) is the idiomatic expression, but I get what you mean - except that in German the infinitive nouns also have endings (a separate ending only for the genitive, but stil...).

Thank you very much.


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## Scholiast

Greetings again


Angelo di fuoco said:


> So "Χρὴ τὸν φίλον σῷζεσθαι" can mean both "It is necessary that the friend be saved" and "It is necessary that the friend save himself"?


Yes, that is right, but it raises another complication (sorry!) which ought to have been mentioned, namely that in the present tense system the middle forms are identical with the passive.
This means that the ambiguity in χρὴ τὸν φίλον σῳζέσθαι [watch the accent here] evaporates if aorist (or other) infinitives are used, as, aspectually, they often are. So (a) χρὴ τὸν φίλον σωθῆναι_ ≠ _(b) χρὴ τὸν φίλον σωσάσθαι:  (a) means "It is necessary that the friend be rescued", while (b) would imply that he has to save himself.
Thank you for your idiomatic correction of my German, but I was trying to be literal. Maybe I should have written _mittels körperlichen Übens_?!
Σ


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## Angelo di fuoco

Oh... nice. I have just seen that indeed my question concerns not the middle voice, but the passive (sometimes indicating the agent, sometimes not), and that the present tence middle voice is introduced only in the following lection (without new forms).

I see your correction of the accent, but σῲζεσθαι is what my textbook says: the middle/passive voice presence infinitive has the accent not on the ending, but on the stem, if I am not mistaken.

I'd say mittels _körperertüchtigenden Übens_ (somewhat old-fashioned or comically solemn German, as well as the other examples ) and there you are. Although with this example all literal translations sound somewhat artificial.


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## Perseas

Scholiast said:


> Greetings again
> 
> Yes, that is right, but it raises another complication (sorry!) which ought to have been mentioned, namely that in the present tense system the middle forms are identical with the passive.


True. 
In the present, imperfect, perfect and past perfect tenses the middle forms are identical with the passive.
On the contrary, in future and aorist there are different forms.

As for the accentuation, it's σῲζεσθαι, σώσασθαι, λύεσθαι, λύσασθαι etc.


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## Scholiast

Perseas said:


> σώσασθαι


Quite right, and how stupid of me to correct someone else's error with one of my own.
Σ


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