# EN: prêtes à croire leur coeur



## Bron

Hello, 

I came across this sentence in a Fr. text:

"Elle redoutait de paraitre trop faible, trop enfantine, semblable aux autres femmes, toujours prêtes à croire leur coeur plutot que leurs yeux"

and I translated it as:

"... their heart rather than..."

A bunch of my students argued it should be their heartS, because they have them in common or something. Does that make sense to you?

Thanks!!!


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## pieanne

I'd stick to the singular, since each woman only has one heart...


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## Bron

Thanks, that's what I thought!


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## pieanne

But others would argue that, since there are many women, there are many hearts... 
As I said, I wouldn't use the plural, but I think it's very hard to tell which solution is better!


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## Bron

Apparently there is a rule somewhere but I can't find it, thanks for your help anyway!!


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## impala

I met this in a French lesson; it's one of those little differences between our languages.

The English would say "they believe their hearts" plural, because, as pieanne said, between them they have many hearts.


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## ChiMike

Bron said:


> Hello,
> 
> I came across this sentence in a Fr. text:
> 
> "Elle redoutait de paraitre trop faible, trop enfantine, semblable aux autres femmes, toujours prêtes à croire leur coeur plutot que leurs yeux"
> 
> and I translated it as:
> 
> "... their heart rather than..."
> 
> A bunch of my students argued it should be their heartS, because they have them in common or something. Does that make sense to you?
> 
> Thanks!!!


 
Yes, it should be their hearts, because each one has one. They don't have one in common.

Although the word "heart" can be used figuratively in English:
"They have no heart" (pitié) "They showed great heart" (courage), the word cannot be used as a collective noun for either concept when it is used to refer to the heart as an organ of the body. So:
1 Samuel 6:

King James Version:
6. Wherefore then do ye (vous pluriel) harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharoah hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?Pourquoi endurciriez-vous votre cœur comme l'ont endurci les Égyptiens et Pharaon ? Lorsque Dieu les eut malmenés, ne les ont-ils pas laissés partir ?

Louis Segond:
Pourquoi endurciriez-vous votre coeur, comme les Egyptiens et Pharaon ont endurci leur coeur?


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## pieanne

I stand corrected! 
Thank you!


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## ChiMike

To be honest, I never noticed the difference before and I have always thought it was "coeurs" in French as well (since I have never written it or paid attention when I saw it written)!  
So, thanks to both of you!


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## Bron

Thank you for all your comments. It makes sense to me know!


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## lobelia.ophrys

ChiMike said:


> Yes, it should be their hearts, because each one has one. They don't have one in common.
> 
> Although the word "heart" can be used figuratively in English:
> "They have no heart" (pitié) "They showed great heart" (courage), the word cannot be used as a collective noun for either concept when it is used to refer to the heart as an organ of the body. So:
> 1 Samuel 6:
> 
> King James Version:
> 6. Wherefore then do ye (vous pluriel) harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharoah hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?Pourquoi endurciriez-vous votre cœur comme l'ont endurci les Égyptiens et Pharaon ? Lorsque Dieu les eut malmenés, ne les ont-ils pas laissés partir ?
> 
> Louis Segond:
> Pourquoi endurciriez-vous votre coeur, comme les Egyptiens et Pharaon ont endurci leur coeur?




I open this thread again because my question is exactly about that.

So, as you said, "it should be their hearts, because each one has one. They don't have one in common", does this mean I should say "their mouthS... their soulS (example: "It's the witches' speech... as dark as their *souls*", etc. since it's not something they don't have in common?


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## jann

English generally prefers a collective plural in situations when French prefers a distributive singular. 

collective plural:  their hearts, their souls, their mouths -- because taken together (collectively), there are as many mouths, souls and hearts present as there are people in the group.

distributive singular: _leur cœur, leur âme, leur bouche -- _because each individual in the group possesses only one heart, one soul, and one mouth.

In English, if you combine plural "their" with a singular noun -- their mother, their home, their car -- it means that together, all of the people have the same mother, live in the same house, or share ownership of the same car.  Since all of the members of the group cannot share a single heart (unless the group is two congenitally conjoined twins), a single soul, or a single mouth, a singular noun doesn't work in English in those situations.


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## lobelia.ophrys

Thank you so so much for your help! It's very clear now!


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