# Hindi/Urdu/ Punjabi: sundar / khubsurat



## Machlii5

Supposedly synonymous words pose a big problem to learners of a language, as they hardly ever are totally interchangeable. 
E.g. the adjectives for physical beauty in German express different grades of beauty and also differ in gender and age of the person described. Some cannot be used for things or abstract notions. There is also the question of area as some dialects have their own words. 
So far I've learned that Hindi uses two different words for “beautiful“, from different origins:
सुन्दर (sansk.) / ख़ूबसूरत (pers.)
I would highly appreciate any comments on how they are used in Hindi
- interchangeably?
- one preferred over the other in different regions?
- for male and female?
- for things and abstract notions?
Are there any other ways to express appreciation of beauty?

Thank you very much for your answers.


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## Faylasoof

As far as I can recall they are used  pretty much interchangeably! 

In Urdu and _colloquial_ Hindi there is also the use of حَسِين हसीन _Hasiin _(Arabic) to express the idea of beauty. Urdu uses this intead of _sundar_ सुन्दर! For us, حَسِين हसीन _Hasiin_ has a higher meaning than خوبصورت  _xuubSuurat_  ख़ूबसूरत. 

There is also, حَسِينہ _Hasiinah_ हसीना, the feminine of حَسِين हसीन _Hasiin, _used exclusively for a beautiful woman.

Incidentally, ख़ूबसूरत is a hybrid of ख़ूब (Persian) + सूरत(Arabic). 

For abstract notions, I can only say about Urdu. We use both خوبصورت  xuubSuurat  ख़ूबसूरत and حَسِين हसीन _Hasiin_. For Hindi, you'd better wait for others.


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## BP.

F, is _Suurat _in a generic manner synonymous to _shakl_-_shape/form_- rather than to _face_?


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> F, is _Suurat _in a generic manner synonymous to _shakl_-_shape/form_- rather than to _face_?


  Yes BP! In fact from this we can go on to say that yet another term used in Urdu and colloquial Hindi is  خوش شكل _xush shakl_ ख़ुश शक्ल = handsome / beautiful. Used for both males and females.


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## BP.

Thanks for the reply, but it didn't answer the question I had in mind. Maybe I didn't pose it well. Let's take an example: we know an amoeba's _shakl _can keep on changing, but can we use _Suurat _as a synonym and say an amoeba's _Suurat _can keep on changing?
Of course, _Suurat _has many other meanings too, but I'm not going there.



> ..yet another term used in Urdu and colloquial Hindi is  خوش شكل _xush shakl_ ख़ुश शक्ल = handsome / beautiful.


 And _khuub ruu_ and _khush jabiin _too, if we're talking of the face alone. _khush shakl_, although not usually so, IMO can encompass the entire body, translating to _shapely_.


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## Cilquiestsuens

In Punjabi there is a very nice word which in my experience is more common than khuubsuurat and that is = _*khush-numaa*_ (=> ''nice looking''), which is also potentially an Urdu word... Never come across it in Urdu though...


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## panjabigator

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Thanks for the reply, but it didn't answer the question I had in mind. Maybe I didn't pose it well. Let's take an example: we know an amoeba's _shakl _can keep on changing, but can we use _Suurat _as a synonym and say an amoeba's _Suurat _can keep on changing?
> Of course, _Suurat _has many other meanings too, but I'm not going there.



We seem to be getting off topic here, so I'll split this thread.

I'd use the word روپ here (spontaneously), though I don't know if an Urduphone would do the same.  I take  صورت to mean "form" as well.


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## BP.

Cilquiestsuens said:


> In Punjabi there is a very nice word which in my experience is more common than khuubsuurat and that is = _*khush-numaa*_ (=> ''nice looking''), which is also potentially an Urdu word... Never come across it in Urdu though...


It is used on a quotidian basis in Urdu as well.


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## Machlii5

Thank you very much for your valuable input, *Faylasoof, BelligerentPacifist* and *Cilquiestsuens!* 

If I may venture to sum up what you have written about the terms for “beautiful“, this is how I‘ve picked it up:

*sundar* सुन्दर and *xuubSuurat* ख़ूबसूरत are used pretty much interchangeably.

*Hasiin* हसीन (Arabic) is used in Urdu and colloquial Hindi. Hasiin हसीन has a *higher meaning* than  xuubSuurat ख़ूबसूरत. 

*Hasiinah *हसीना, the feminine of  हसीन Hasiin, is used *exclusively for a beautiful woman*.

*xush shak*l ख़ुश शक्ल = handsome / beautiful is used for both males and females in Urdu and colloquial Hindi. It can encompass the *entire body*, translating to shapely.

*khuub ruu* and *khush jabiin* refer to the beauty of the *face alone*.  

In Punjabi* khush-numaa* (=> ''nice looking'') is more common than khuubsuurat. It is used in Urdu as well.  

For *abstract notions* both xuubSuurat ख़ूबसूरत and Hasiin हसीन are used.

Please excuse my not using Nastaliq - I can‘t read it and wouldn‘t be able to check if I paste-copied the words correctly. 

Thanks again!


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## Koozagar

Hi All,
I would beg to differ on the following:

In Punjabi, in Pakistan at least, *'Sohna' (for male) and 'Sohni' (for female)* are more often used to describe personal beauty. The use is extended to the entire body. A Punjabi using* Khushnuma* would be considered speaking *Gulabi Punjabi * 

*xush shak*l, *khuub ruu* and *khush jabiin, *all three of them are more often used for referring to facial beauty in Urdu ( ruu=face, jabiin=forehead). In Punjabi their use is less common, in fact I would say very rare. In written Punjabi it is more likely to be used to elevate the writing to a higher literary register.

*Hasinah *has objectifying connotations to it. In polite conversations  Haseen is used for both males and females. Hasinah is used in both Punjabi and Urdu but in more informal settings. for example:
A: " yar woh hasinah sai kuch baat aagay barhi?"
B: "kaunsi hasinah?"
A:"yaar woh chammak challo jo us din concert pai mili thi"

In a more polite setting:
A: " yaar tum Amjad ki shadi pai gaye thay"
B: " haan, us ki biwi mashallah bari haseen/khubsurat hay"

if you use* khush shakl* here it will bring the praise down a notch.


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## panjabigator

I'd have to agree about "sohna" and "sohni" from the Indian Panjabi side: they are much more used.

Interesting to hear this about "khushnuma" and "Gulabi Panjabi."


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## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> I'd have to agree about "sohna" and "sohni" from the Indian Panjabi side: they are much more used.
> 
> Interesting to hear this about "khushnuma" and "Gulabi Panjabi."



No doubt _*sohna > sohnii*_ is the preferred word - by far - in the PK Punjab too...

It is also an endearing and respectful way of addressing children you don't know = _*sohne*_.


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## Faylasoof

It is interesting that we’ve shifted the discussion to Punjabi usage as well. I have therefore changed the thread-title to include this language.

 *sohnii* is indeed common in Punjabi and even used in some Urdu poetic forms though it is not used in _our_ Urdu, i.e. where we come from. 

I do remember the Pakistani song from the 70s:

سوہنی دھرتی اللہ رکھے قدم قدم آباد
_sohnii dhartii Allah rakhkhe qadam qadam aabaad _

Here and here.

Urdu does however use  سہانا_ sohaanaa_ (masc.) and    سہانی_ sohaanii_ (fem.) to mean _delectable, pleasant, nice_, _pretty_. 

Here is Platts:

H سہانا सुहाना _suhānā_ (i.q. _suhāwan_, _suhāwnā_, and next), adj. (f. -_ī_), Pleasing, pleasant, agreeable, charming, becoming, graceful.
 

… and this too:
H سہانا सुहाना _suhānā_, (dialec) सिहाना _sihānā_ [_suhā˚_ = _suhāw˚_ = Prk. सोहाव(इ) or सोहावे(इ)=S. शोभय (ति), fr. शोभ; or caus. of rt. शुभ्], v.n. To shine, &c. (=_sohnā_, q.v.); to be beautiful;—v.t. To make beautiful; to ornament, adorn, grace


… and just to clarify, regarding the use of حَسِينہ vs حَسِين what I said was:



Faylasoof said:


> There is also,





Faylasoof said:


> حَسِينہ_ Hasiinah _हसीना, the feminine of حَسِين हसीन_ Hasiin, _used exclusively for a beautiful woman..


 This means that حَسِينہ_ Hasiinah_ हसीना can used only for a woman, never a man (!), but it doesn’t mean that the word حَسِين हसीन_ Hasiin_ cannot be for both in Urdu. In fact it _is_ used this way.

 Also, apart from _xush ruu_ , _xush shakl_  and _xush jabii.n_, used for facial beauty, there is also  خوش صُورَت_ xush Suurat_ – used for both males and females…. and there is even خوش ظاہِر_ xush Zaahir_  too, meaning both حسین _Hasiin _and خوش نما xush numaa.

We have many ways to describe "beauty"!


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## Sheikh_14

Koozagar said:


> *xush shak*l, *khuub ruu* and *khush jabiin, *all three of them are more often used for referring to facial beauty .



I would side with BP's take here that xush shakl is synonymous with well-shaped and shapely as opposed to xush ruu and jabiin which remain confined to facial features. Where do other members stand in this regard and how would they differentiate a pretty face from being shapely in form (in Urdu distinctly)?


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## marrish

xush andaam, gul-badan = about the body as a whole [Urdu]


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## Sheikh_14

Thank you Marrish saahib for your valuable insight. Infact your alternatives are quite unambiguous. Nevertheless coming back to the initial question using posts 3,4 and 5 offer a good bench-mark. What they clarify is that shakl although very often used for face in Urdu as an alternative to chehra does in fact originally mean shape. In fact the best synonym for shape within the Urdu language for shape is shakl. Similarly Persian applies suurat in a similar manner as we do shakl in terms of facial connotations. However, this doesn't take detract away from their original denotation. Thus in that light would you not agree that yes shakl is quite often confined to the face in common parlance but its actual definition is far more generic and open to interpretation? In fact it is similar but admittedly a notch lower than xuub suurat which is merely a synonym for beautiful and thus quite generic. In that light xush shakl would mean shapely but provided further elaboration or context we would be able to decipher its purpose at a given moment and time?
 There is little reason to believe you disagree with BP's premise at this moment and time since you merely proffered clear alternatives as requested. In that light what would you think of the following xush tan,badan & suurat to define either a well proportioned body composition or merely being shapely?

My understanding: 
Xush jabiin & xush ruu= pretty face
Xush numaa, xush shakl= well-shaped, pleasing to the eye.
Xuub suurat= beautiful rather than just a pretty face.

A good way of tackling this problem would be by addressing the clichéd compound word in shakl-suurat. Although, both mean form in this case one I believe suggests facial features whilst the other the entire form.


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## marrish

خوش وضع _xush-waz3_ (generic-body)
وضع دار _waz3-daar_ (generic-body)
ڈھب دار _Dhab-daar_ (generic-body)
خوش قطع xush-qat3 (generic-body)
خوش ہیئت _xush-hay'at_ (generic-body)
خوب رو _xuub-ruu_ (face)
خوب صورت _xuub-suurat_ (face+generic. This became the most popular and generic word for 'beautiful', regardless of the composite words).
خوب/خوش شکل _xuub-/xush-shakl_ (generic).
شکیل \ شکیلہ _shakiil/shakiilah_ (generic)
زیبا _zebaa_ (generic)
جمیل \ جمیلہ _jamiil/jamiilah_ (generic+face)
سندر _sundar_ (generic)
حسین \ حسینہ _Hasiin/Hasiinah_ (generic+face)
رعنا _ra3naa_ (generic)
سڈول _suDaul_ (generic, body)
دیدہ زیب _diidah-zeb_ (generic)
خوش نما _xush-numaa_ (generic)
پھبتا _phabtaa_ (generic)
سوہنا _sohnaa_ (generic)
سہاؤنا _suhaa'onaa_ (generic)
ملوک _maluuk_ (generic)


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