# Что-нибудь vs что-то



## Dictatortot

Hello, all:

As it does so often for non-natives, the -то/-нибудь distinction is causing uncertainty.  Now, if I'm not mistaken, the difference between что-то and что-нибудь mostly rests on whether the speaker _knows_ what he's referring to.
*Example*

Я видел что-то.  I saw something (and I know what it was).

Я видел что-нибудь. I saw something (but I didn't see it clearly, and am not sure what it was).

_If_ that's correct, what word would one use to describe something that the speaker can describe, but not identify?
In other words:
*Example*

I saw something (where "something" is an unusual object--I can describe the shape, color, etc., but do not know the object's purpose, or what to call it).

This is a case where I'm not sure which word would be appropriate--что-то, что-нибудь, or maybe something else?

Thanks very much in advance!


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## Natari

If I understood you correctly, you should use "что-то".
Your examples are not correct, alas. The first means that you saw something, you can't describe (f.e. because you saw it in the dark or only for a few seconds) or that you saw something, that you can describe, but can't identify it and do not know it's purpose. The second can't be used at all. You should use "что-нибудь" in sentences like: "I'll order something to drink (but I haven't decided what to drink yet)", when the object is less important at the moment, than the action itself.


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## Maroseika

These previous discussions may help you:

Кто-то vs. некто And Что-то vs. нечто
Кое-что vs. что-то
Difference between кто-то and кто-нибудь
чтo-нибудь/чтo-либo, кoгo-нибудь/кoгo-либo


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## Dictatortot

Thank you!


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## Rosett

A certain overlap can be observed nowadays, often "что-то" replaces "что-нибудь" with the same meaning, that can be attributed to a substandard usage.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> A certain overlap can be observed nowadays, often "что-то" replaces "что-нибудь" with the same meaning, that can be attributed to a substandard usage.



Such a claim looks puzzling without any examples to illustrate it, along with an explanation of why you consider a given example a recent substandard usage as opposed to inherent overlap in meaning.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Such a claim looks puzzling without any examples to illustrate it, along with an explanation of why you consider a given example a recent substandard usage as opposed to inherent overlap in meaning.


Scores of samples can be found in everyday speech, like the following:
*"Давай что-то поедим*, ладно? А то бабушка меня борщом кормила, а я его не люблю".
Через полчаса придёт и скажет: "А *давай что-то поедим*, ничего не ели". Я говорю: "Ты шутишь? Только что поели, ты забыл?"
*"Давай что-то поедим* - кушать хочется... И зверюгу покормить надо". Встали. Позавтракали. Положили еду Кисе... Киса не появилась.
Молодая пара. Он ей: "*Давай что-то поедим*_*"*_, она в ответ: "Может, любовью будем сыты, ..."
"Вставай, мама, и *давай что-то поедим*_*,*_ наконец".

All of the above requires "что-нибудь" in standard usage.

By the way, I don't think there's any inherent overlap in standard usage - что-нибудь vs что-то is fairly distinctive.


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## Linguoman

Rosett said:


> Scores of samples can be found in everyday speech, like the following:
> *"Давай что-то поедим*, ладно? А то бабушка меня борщом кормила, а я его не люблю".
> Через полчаса придёт и скажет: "А *давай что-то поедим*, ничего не ели". Я говорю: "Ты шутишь? Только что поели, ты забыл?"
> *"Давай что-то поедим* - кушать хочется... И зверюгу покормить надо". Встали. Позавтракали. Положили еду Кисе... Киса не появилась.
> Молодая пара. Он ей: "*Давай что-то поедим*_*"*_, она в ответ: "Может, любовью будем сыты, ..."
> "Вставай, мама, и *давай что-то поедим*_*,*_ наконец".
> 
> All of the above requires "что-нибудь" in standard usage.
> 
> By the way, I don't think there's any inherent overlap in standard usage - что-нибудь vs что-то is fairly distinctive.



All those sentences just sound awkward to me. I would definitely use "что-нибудь" in all of them. I doubt if I have ever heard that usage you are describing.


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## Ben Jamin

Dictatortot said:


> Hello, all:
> 
> As it does so often for non-natives, the -то/-нибудь distinction is causing uncertainty.  Now, if I'm not mistaken, the difference between что-то and что-нибудь mostly rests on whether the speaker _knows_ what he's referring to.
> *Example*
> 
> Я видел что-то.  I saw something (and I know what it was).
> 
> Я видел что-нибудь. I saw something (but I didn't see it clearly, and am not sure what it was).
> 
> _If_ that's correct, what word would one use to describe something that the speaker can describe, but not identify?
> In other words:
> *Example*
> 
> I saw something (where "something" is an unusual object--I can describe the shape, color, etc., but do not know the object's purpose, or what to call it).
> 
> This is a case where I'm not sure which word would be appropriate--что-то, что-нибудь, or maybe something else?
> 
> Thanks very much in advance!


Isn't it just so simple that что-то   means *something*, while что-нибудь means *anything*?


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## Maroseika

Ben Jamin said:


> Isn't it just so simple that что-то   means *something*, while что-нибудь means *anything*?


Yes, in the rough approximation it's exactly like that.
Что-нибудь refers to something indefinite or no matter what exactly.
Что-то refers to something more definite.

For example:
Я почувствовал что-то приятное (I don't know what exactly it was, but I know for sure it was nice what I felt) .
Скажи мне что-нибудь приятное (Tell me any pleasant thing).

However sometimes the margin is vaguer:
Ты что-то слышал об этом? (Have you heard something [definite] about this?)
Ты что-нибудь слышал об этом? (Have you heard [at least] anything about this?)


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## Enquiring Mind

> Isn't it just so simple that что-то   means *something*, while что-нибудь means *anything*?


Unfortunately not.

_"Хорошо, в таком случае...- забормотал он,- я зайду после или... или пришлю *кого-нибудь*.
 Он не видел выражения лица у приказчика, но, чтобы хоть немного сгладить неловкость, почувствовал необходимость купить *что-нибудь*. Но что же купить? Он оглядел стены магазина, выбирая *что-нибудь* подешевле, и остановил свой взгляд на зеленой сетке, висевшей около двери." (А.П.Чехов. Мститель)_

All three uses of -нибудь here have to be "someone/something", "anyone/anything" isn't possible.  (I'll send someone... to buy something ... looking for something cheap...)


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## Rosett

Linguoman said:


> All those sentences just sound awkward to me. I would definitely use "что-нибудь" in all of them. I doubt if I have ever heard that usage you are describing.


That's how people speak naturally, and I hear that from time to time. In such a case, "что-то" means "что-нибудь",  and it's perfectly understood in the given situations. Some of the cited examples are taken from novels.


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## Rosett

Maroseika said:


> For example:
> ...
> Скажи мне что-нибудь приятное (Tell me any pleasant thing).


It can also mean "Tell me something pleasant," and "anything" can be also "что-то" in Russian in the given context
It is possible to say: Скажи мне что-то приятное", meaning "Tell me anything pleasant (however, I may expect that your choice would be limited to what you already know about me.)"


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## Rosett

Enquiring Mind said:


> Unfortunately not.
> 
> _"Хорошо, в таком случае...- забормотал он,- я зайду после или... или пришлю *кого-нибудь*.
> Он не видел выражения лица у приказчика, но, чтобы хоть немного сгладить неловкость, почувствовал необходимость купить *что-нибудь*. Но что же купить? Он оглядел стены магазина, выбирая *что-нибудь* подешевле, и остановил свой взгляд на зеленой сетке, висевшей около двери." (А.П.Чехов. Мститель)_
> 
> All three uses of -нибудь here have to be "someone/something", "anyone/anything" isn't possible.  (I'll send someone... to buy something ... looking for something cheap...)


You're absolutely right. The reason is that the real choice is limited by the availability, either in the person's mind, or in the actual store.
However, it is also possible to say "кого-то/что-то" in the examples given above, if you want to underline that the choice is limited by availability. You can't say "кого угодно/что угодно" (anyone/anything), meaning unlimited choice.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> However, it is also possible to say "кого-то/что-то" in the examples given above, if you want to underline that the choice is limited by availability. You can't say "кого угодно/что угодно" (anyone/anything), meaning unlimited choice.



Can you explain why this argument is inapplicable in the examples from your post #7?

For a detailed referential and semantic analysis you can read this paper, but be advised that it's quite loaded with formal logic terms you're probably going to spend some time understanding. It demonstrates that the _-то_ particle is the most difficult of the three and its usage can be largely influenced by "...pragmatic constraints arising from contrasts to other available markers...", that is, _кое-_ and _-нибудь_. There's otherwise a definite overlap in specificity.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Can you explain why this argument is inapplicable in the examples from your post #7?


Post #7 is intended to demonstrate substandard usage. Forero Linguoman already made a point out of it.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> Post #7 is intended to demonstrate substandard usage. Forero Linguoman already made a point out of it.



So your suggestions to *Enquiring Mind* were also intended to be substandard usage? Your post only mentions their different shade of meaning. Any way, I'd like to reiterate that I'm against such prescriptive and crude, Soviet-style language standardisation, especially if in-depth analysis shows there's no identifiable hard border between the three particles, but instead a fine-grained difference with a clear overlap.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> For a detailed referential and semantic analysis you can read this paper, but be advised that it's quite loaded with formal logic terms you're probably going to spend some time understanding. It demonstrates that the _-то_ particle is the most difficult of the three and its usage can be largely influenced by "...pragmatic constraints arising from contrasts to other available markers...", that is, _кое-_ and _-нибудь_. There's otherwise a definite overlap in specificity.


The paper by Ljudmila Geist you're referring to is a research paper, that contains a scientific claim yet to be accepted through academic discussions. The paper has some arguable points and examples that may be not universally accepted. You may want to elaborate your point based on the paper in your own words.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> So your suggestions to *Enquiring Mind* were also intended to be substandard usage? Your post only mentions their different shade of meaning.


In the post #14, only the standard usage of _кто/что-нибудь _is discussed in well-established examples. However, the subtle difference between _-нибудь_ and _-то_ would be lost in the given translation.


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## CKM367

Dictatortot said:


> Я видел что-то.  I saw something (and I know what it was).
> 
> Я видел что-нибудь. I saw something (but I didn't see it clearly, and am not sure what it was).



Really, we say as follows:



Я видел кое-что. I saw something (and I know what it was).

Я видел что-то. I saw something (but I didn't see it clearly, and am not sure what it was).


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> In the post #14, only the standard usage of _кто/что-нибудь _is discussed in well-established examples. However, the subtle difference between _-нибудь_ and _-то_ would be lost in the given translation.



I'm afraid I don't quite follow. Why exactly is using _что-то_ instead of _что-нибудь_ in "Давай {...} поедим - кушать хочется" *not*, quote, "underline[ning] that the choice is limited by availability", and why exactly is doing the same in "Он оглядел стены магазина, выбирая {...} подешевле" *not* substandard usage? What context is there in the second sentence that licenses the usage of _что-то_ that the first one lacks?

As to the paper, you quoted my elaboration on my point in your very post.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> I'm afraid I don't quite follow. Why exactly is using _что-то_ instead of _что-нибудь_ in "Давай {...} поедим - кушать хочется" *not*, quote, "underline[ning] that the choice is limited by availability", and why exactly is doing the same in "Он оглядел стены магазина, выбирая {...} подешевле" *not* substandard usage? What context is there in the second sentence that licenses the usage of _что-то_ that the first one lacks?


 Posts №7 and №11 elaborate different issues:
№7 - substandard use of "что-то" in Russian, when "что-нибудь" is appropriate. It's all about Russian.
№11 - translation of "что-нибудь" as _something _into English. "Что-то" can be also translated as _something. _It could be either standard, or substandard usage in Russian, but there's no point to compare with №7. Each example is different.
 Having noticed that, you can't really make a point for further discussion.


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## Sobakus

Right, no hint of any logic or reasoning at all. Well, I guess this should serve as gentle reminder to me.


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