# Il s'est levé tôt



## ovejanegra

The language app, Duolingo, asked me to transcribe an audio clip. The voice said, "Il s'est levé tôt." I wrote "Il se levait tôt" because that's what I thought I heard. My answer was marked wrong. 

I went to Google Translate, wrote "Il s'est levé tôt. Il se levait tôt," and clicked the speaker icon so I could hear both sentences. They sound the same to me. 

Is the pronunciation the same, or am I mistaken?

Thank you.


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## SwissPete

I am no pronunciation expert, but there has to be a difference between *s'est *and *se*.

*Il s'est* should sound like *il sait*.
The *se *of *il se* should sound like *ce*, as in _à *ce *jour_.

Let's see what others have to say.


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## AH92

I agree that the two sound different, but are you sure "il s'est" sounds the same as "il sait"? As far as I know, the latter rhymes with j'*ai* and je *vais*, whereas "il s'est" rhymes with *aie* (the imperative of _avoir_, as in "n'aie pas peur") and je *fais*.


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## SwissPete

As I said, I am no pronunciation expert, in addition to having a serious hearing problem.
So I will leave it to others to answer your questions.


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## Keith Bradford

You're wrong, Ovejanegra, and the others are right; but don't feel too bad about it.  I've lost count of the number of times I've seen this confusion in private e-mails from French native speakers.


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## Locape

Pour moi, 'se levait' dans 'il se levait tôt' se prononce [seu leuv*è*] comme dans 'faire' et 's'est levé' se prononce [sé leuv*é*] comme dans 'blé', mais comme on les prononce vite dans la langue parlée, c'est difficile à distinguer.


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## jekoh

AH92 said:


> As far as I know, the latter rhymes with j'*ai* and je *vais*, whereas "il s'est" rhymes with *aie* (the imperative of _avoir_, as in "n'aie pas peur") and je *fais*.


Most people pronounce all four with the same vowel.


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## AH92

jekoh said:


> Most people pronounce all four with the same vowel.



And which one is that? é (as in _et_) or è (as in _est_)?


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## jekoh

The majority also pronounce _et_ and _est_ with the same vowel. 

It could be either [e] or [ɛ].


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## AH92

No way! That's not what any of my books or dictionaries say!


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## jekoh

I have no idea why you imagine that your dictionaries give you the more common pronunciation. Let me guess, they also say _un_ is pronounced [œ̃] ?


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## Blougouz

AH92 said:


> No way! That's not what any of my books or dictionaries say!


Your dictionaries are right!.... refering to North of France (parisian accent). But they are not taking in consideration the other part of the country, and even less the other frenchspeaking countries... 

(I personally pronounce it like in your dictionaries)


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## AH92

jekoh: Yes, they do. And one of my textbooks says that _je vais_ rhymes with _j'ai_ (jé) but _je sais_ rhymes with _c'est_ (sè).


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## Blougouz

AH92 said:


> And one of my textbooks says that _je vais_ rhymes with _j'ai_ (jé) but _je sais_ rhymes with _c'est_ (sè).


All those vowels should be pronounced the same way:  [ɛ].


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## Blougouz

jekoh said:


> The majority also pronounce _et_ and _est_ with the same vowel.
> 
> It could be either [e] or [ɛ].


S'il te plaît @jekoh, d'où tiens-tu cette affirmation? La majorité de quel groupe de référence? Quelles sont tes sources? Merci de nous les transmettre. Je n'ai jamais lu aucune étude démontrant cela.


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## jekoh

Il suffit de prêter l'oreille à ce qu'on entend à la télé ou ce qu'on voit à la radio pour se rendre compte qu'un très grand nombre de gens prononcent _et_ et _est_ de la même façon. Je pense que c'est la majorité, mais si c'est seulement 40 %, je ne vois pas ce que ça change.

De ton côté, merci de nous dire d'où tu tiens qu'on « devrait » prononcer de telle ou telle façon. Le dictionnaires n'indiquent certainement pas ce qu'on « doit » dire. Ils ne donnent même pas non plus les prononciations les plus courantes à Paris, puisqu'ils donnent pour le mot _un_ la prononciation [œ̃], qui y est fort rare.


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## AH92

jekoh: Yeah, I have never heard anyone pronouncing _brun_ (brown) and _brin_ (strand) differently. Nor have I ever heard anyone pronouncing _patte_ (paw) and _pâte_ (pastry) differently. These dictionaries and textbooks need to be updated!


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## jekoh

AH92 said:


> And one of my textbooks says that _je vais_ rhymes with _j'ai_ (jé) but _je sais_ rhymes with _c'est_ (sè).


Let's just say that not everybody pronounces it that way. Personally, I pronounce all four with [e].



AH92 said:


> I have never heard anyone pronouncing _brun_ (brown) and _brin_ (strand) differently.


It's fairly common in the South of France.



AH92 said:


> These dictionaries and textbooks need to be updated!


Or people reading them should simply accept that the pronunciations they give are simply one "dialect", among many others.


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## Blougouz

jekoh said:


> Or people reading them should simply accept that the pronunciations they give are simply one "dialect", among many others.


 we would be pleased you could apply this rule to yourself.

Refering to the actual difference <se/s'est/sait> I totally agree with @SwissPete #2.
Actually I can't imagine any frenchspeaking individual unable to sounding any difference between the two sentences! (Unless after heavy partying  )


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## jekoh

On se passe surtout de tes commentaires malveillants.

Merci de bien vouloir nous dire d'où tu tiens qu'on « devrait » prononcer de telle ou telle façon.


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## AH92

I'm sorry you guys started fighting because of a comment I made!


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## Locape

It's funny, I just realized I pronounce 'je vais voir' (vé), but 'j'y vais' (vè) ! And 'j'ai mal' (jé), but 'je l'ai fait' (lè fè), 'je sais pas' (sé) and 'je le sais !' (sè)... 😊


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## tartopom

ovejanegra said:


> "Il s'est levé tôt. Il se levait tôt,"


I pronounce "Il s'est levé /levé/ tôt" and " Il se levait /levè/ tôt.". But I guess it depends on the place where you live / were born blah blah blah.


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## Blougouz

AH92 said:


> I'm sorry you guys started fighting because of a comment I made!


Welcome in France! Its cheese, its breads, its regions...! And the fights to claim the real right reciepe of the bœuf-carottes!


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## Blougouz

tartopom said:


> I pronounce "Il s'est levé /levé/ tôt" and " Il se levait /levè/ tôt.". But I guess it depends on the place where you live / were born blah blah blah.


Come on,  @tartopom! You wouldn't say: -ilsélevéto-for both: il s'est levé tôt and il se levait tôt! .. right?!  
(The question we are on here)


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## tartopom

Sorry Blougouz, but I wrote /lev*é*/ and /lev*è*/. Not the same.


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## Blougouz

tartopom said:


> Sorry Blougouz, but I wrote /lev*é*/ and /lev*è*/. Not the same.


Pardon mais ça veut dire que tu prononces "il s'est" et "il se" de la même manière??? Tu dis <il sè> pour les deux???
Dans ce cas j'aimerais bien savoir dans quelle région tu habites, toi aussi! 
(Une relecture depuis le début est vraiment plus que  nécessaire!)


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## tartopom

Sorry Blougouz I thought we were speaking about "levé" and "levait".
Mais si tu parles de "il s'est " et "il se", je ne les prononce pas pareil.


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## Blougouz

tartopom said:


> Sorry Blougouz I thought we were speaking about "levé" and "levait".
> Mais si tu parles de "il s'est " et "il se", je ne les prononce pas pareil.


Ouf!


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