# Indirect object with passive voice



## halcyon2

My questions concern the following sentence:

_Και σε καθέναν που θα πει λόγο ενάντια στον Υιό του ανθρώπου *θα του αφεθεί*.
_
1) Is *του* considered an indirect object here?  If not, then what is the correct term?  (In English, this would be called a "retained object," I believe.)
2) How common is this construction in Μοdern Greek?
3) Could the same meaning be expressed another way?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Perseas

1) I think in the passive construction it's just "object" since there is no "direct object" now.
2) It is very common.
3) Yes, with a prepositional object: σ' αυτόν  (σ' = σε --> preposition)

Another example more simple:
Active:_ Η σχολή δεν *του* έδωσε πτυχίο. _(*του* = indirect object ; πτυχίο = direct object).
Passive:_ Πτυχίο δεν *του* δόθηκε από τη σχολή or Πτυχίο δεν δόθηκε *σ' αυτόν* από τη σχολή. _(*του*/*σ' αυτόν* = object; Πτυχίο = subject)_._


----------



## sotos

halcyon2 said:


> _Και σε καθέναν που θα πει λόγο ενάντια στον Υιό του ανθρώπου *θα του αφεθεί*.
> _
> 2) How common is this construction in Μοdern Greek?


The sentence is modern greek indeed, except that "αφεθεί" which is not very common. It could be "... θα του συγχωρεθεί".


----------



## Αγγελος

We do speak of "άφεση αμαρτιών", and even of "άφεση χρέους" in legal parlance, but αφέθηκε/αφεθεί is NOT used in the sense of "forgiven" in Modern Greek. Whoever wrote this simply cut and pasted the original verb. The construction, on the other hand, is perfectly standard: "θα μου/σου/του συγχωρεθούν οι αμαρτίες" is the normal way of saying "my/your/his sins will be forgiven".


----------



## halcyon2

Perseas said:


> 1) I think in the passive construction it's just "object" since there is no "direct object" now.



Thanks, Perseas.  I have a Greek book that's supposed to be "comprehensive," but it doesn't seem to mention this situation.  Shouldn't there be a more definitive term than just "object," though?  The book does mention the term "benefactive," which seems to come close to what we're discussing here. 



> Another example more simple:
> Active:_ Η σχολή δεν *του* έδωσε πτυχίο. _(*του* = indirect object ; πτυχίο = direct object).
> Passive:_ Πτυχίο δεν *του* δόθηκε από τη σχολή or Πτυχίο δεν δόθηκε *σ' αυτόν* από τη σχολή. _(*του*/*σ' αυτόν* = object; Πτυχίο = subject)_._



OK, thank you for the helpful examples.


----------



## halcyon2

sotos said:


> The sentence is modern greek indeed, except that "αφεθεί" which is not very common. It could be "... θα του συγχωρεθεί".



Thanks, sotos.  Yeah, I couldn't find the definition "to forgive" for αφήνω in any dictionary.


----------



## halcyon2

Αγγελος said:


> We do speak of "άφεση αμαρτιών", and even of "άφεση χρέους" in legal parlance, but αφέθηκε/αφεθεί is NOT used in the sense of "forgiven" in Modern Greek. Whoever wrote this simply cut and pasted the original verb.



Thanks for the info, Αγγελε.  I'm not sure the name of the translator, but I'll definitely take that translation with a grain of salt in the future.  



> The construction, on the other hand, is perfectly standard: "θα μου/σου/του συγχωρεθούν οι αμαρτίες" is the normal way of saying "my/your/his sins will be forgiven".



OK, that makes sense.  Incidentally, French seems to have a similar situation.  Here' s a French translation of the same sentence:

_Toute personne qui dira une parole contre le Fils de l'homme, cela *lui* sera pardonné._

It's also rather amusing that my "comprehensive" French grammar doesn't seem to mention this case either.  It seems the word "comprehensive" is an exaggeration when it comes to many grammars.


----------



## sotos

halcyon2 said:


> Thanks, sotos.  Yeah, I couldn't find the definition "to forgive" for αφήνω in any dictionary.


Because the verb is αφίημι. Look in an ancient gr. dictionary


----------



## halcyon2

sotos said:


> Because the verb is αφίημι. Look in an ancient gr. dictionary



So, as Αγγελος said, it seems they just copied and pasted the original verb.


----------

