# lapalissade



## amy collé

Hi all,

I would really appreciate some clarification of a few translation problems. The following sentence is really giving me a hard time; 'Dire que le tableau est sombre releve une lapalissade', my dictionary gives 'truism' for lapalissade but could it be translated as something that has become banal .. any suggestions? 

Also, 'doit t'on devant cette situation rester incredule face a un mal (le sida) qui ne fait que progresser' how can 'incredule' be best rendered in this context? 

also the text speaks of events like world aids day as 'temps forts de mobilisation sociale', can anyone think of a better way to translate this than 'special events for social mobilisation' (yuk)

merci beaucoup d'avance


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## Jabote

Dire que le tableau est sombre relève d'une lapalissade: to say that this painting is somber (gloomy, dark, depending on what is meant by "sombre" in the sentence) is to state the obvious.


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## Agnès E.

Click on the link below to get info about the origin of the word "lapalissade" :

http://encyclopedie.sytes.net/encyclopedia.php?title=lapalissade


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## tchev

A lapalissade is something so obvious that it doesn't need to be told.
This article should help understanding what a lapalissade is...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapalissade

I don't see how one can be "incredule" about aids. Maybe more context on the "situation" could help...


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## amy collé

ok, it goes without saying that the situation is bleak?


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## Agnès E.

Yes: it is so obvious that pointing it out is unuseful.


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## sophievm

unuseful / useless : are there any nuances ?


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## Benjy

unuseful isnt an english word as far as i know.

not useful = possibly detrimental (opposite of useful)
useless = has no use, neutral.


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## amy collé

Le dernier bulletin épidémiologique du Sénégal parle de 83, 450 personnes infectées ; elles seront 136,000 en 2010. Doit t’on devant cette situation rester incrédule face a un mal qui ne fait que progresser et qui compromet le devenir des nations.  Non, répond l’alliance national contre le Sida. Il faut agir.

Ok, basically it’s the opposite of ‘agir’ but at the same time you have to get across that the reality is overwhelming. Thank you so much!


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## marie270258

amy collé said:
			
		

> ok, it goes without saying that the situation is bleak?


 
For example :

5 minutes before his death , he was always living! 

it's that a "lapalissade", an obvious truth


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## tchev

"incrédule" means nothing but "to refuse or strongly hesitate to believe". One can be "incrédule" about an opinion, not about a fact. It doesn't fit with the context. The use of this word here is not ideal. I suggest to translate this with the idea of hesitation, indecision...


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

In English, that would be 'Five minutes before his death , he was *still alive * !


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## amy collé

It hardly needs to be said that the picture is bleak?


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## la grive solitaire

Doit t’on devant cette situation rester incrédule face a un mal qui ne fait que progresser et qui compromet le devenir des nations. Non, répond l’alliance national contre le Sida. Il faut agir.

Although "rester incrédule" could be translated as "remain incredulous", given the subject matter, I'd suggest something stronger like, "remain in a state of denial."


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## Jabote

If you absolutely want to use the "no need to say" way of building the sentence, then I guess it would be better to shorten it to "needless to say".

However I still believe that "to say that blah blah blah is to state the obvious" is better. Not because it was my suggestion, but because I find it closer to the _obvious_ meaning of "lapalissade"


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## tchev

Jabote said:
			
		

> However I still believe that "to say that blah blah blah is to state the obvious" is better. Not because it was my suggestion, but because I find it closer to the _obvious_ meaning of "lapalissade"


I concur.
The lapalissade phrase is generally used to insist strongly on the obviousness. "state the obvious" seems stronger than "needless to say".


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## marie270258

Jean-Michel Carrère said:
			
		

> In English, that would be 'Five minutes before his death , he was *still alive * !


 good afternoon

thank you to correct my english; I learn


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## massie1

The closest English expression I've come across to describe une la palissade is "_a mesterful statement of the obvious_"


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## renrah

amy collé said:
			
		

> Le dernier bulletin épidémiologique du Sénégal parle de 83, 450 personnes infectées ; elles seront 136,000 en 2010. Doit t’on devant cette situation rester incrédule face a un mal qui ne fait que progresser et qui compromet le devenir des nations. Non, répond l’alliance national contre le Sida. Il faut agir.



Couldn't "incrédule" mean "incredulous" in this context? Incredulous means -  unwilling to admit or accept what is offered as true *:* not credulous *: *synonym = Skeptical.  An interpretation (not a translation) would be: It's hard to fathom the enormity of the situation, so it would be easy to be incredulous, but that doesn't mean we should just sit there and do nothing.


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## fetchezlavache

amy, c'est *doit-on* and not _doit 'on_

i'm not satisfied with the use of 'incrédule' either. _de tels chiffres pourraient nous mener à la limite de l'incrédulité, face à ce mal qui ne fait que progresser et qui compromet le devenir des nations. mais, répond l'alliance national*e* contre le sida, les chiffres sont réels, il faut agir._

the above can be bettered i'm sure. you get the gist


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## eclypse

Hello, I was just wondering if lapalissade could ever be translated as understatement, as in the sentence below. It should be noted, that the tone of the text is quite joking and critical, in describing the early morning rush hour chaos on Paris' roads. This sentence is uttered by a fed-up driver: 

_Dire que notre vie est infernale est une lapalissade_
_To say that our life is a living hell is an understatement_


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## melu85

Lapalissade has nothing to do with "understatement".


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## Kelly B

In addition to the suggestions above, I rather like
...demonstrates a firm grasp of the obvious.


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## eclypse

Kelly B, are you suggesting: To say that our life is a living hell demonstrates a firm grasp of the obvious? It is just that it seems quite long compared to the original...?


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## Kelly B

You're right, that is awfully wordy in your particular context.  I had it in mind in a more general sense. 
(I also just realized that massie1 said essentially the same thing. )

That's a tough one, because the only shorter versions I can think of require rearranging the sentence or losing part of the meaning of the word. _Futile _and _useless _come to mind, for example, but that drops the notion of _obvious_, while _obvious _by itself isn't an appropriate modifier for _saying_.


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## eclypse

I understand. Then how about "clearly, our life is a living hell" ?


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## eclypse

or "saying that our life is a living hell is a truism" ?


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## madolo

eclypse said:


> or "saying that our life is a living hell is a truism" ?


I don't think the word "truism"  belongs to the vocabulary of an angry lorry driver


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## eclypse

madolo said:


> I don't think the word "truism" belongs to the vocabulary of an angry lorry driver


 
I agree, but then, does _lapalissade_ ?


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## Punky Zoé

Maybe truism is more common in English than it is in French, and truisme is synonymous with lapalissade.


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## madolo

my previous post should be disregarded : in another thread (" proclame encore ") the angry driver appears to be a doctor


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