# BrE and AmE  corn / maize



## Nijan

In BrE the lexeme CORN indicates a major number of referents. In fact, while in AmE it refers only to the seeds of maize, BrE  definition includes seeds of barley, oats, weath and  other similiar plants. The plant itself, on the contrary, could be called CORN only in AmE.



Is that distinction correct, or is there anything more I still missing?

Thank you in advance, as usual!


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## Cagey

You are correct about the AmE half of it.  _Corn_ here refers only to the plant you call _maize_.  We call the wider assortment of seeds "grains". 

I cannot speak for the BrE usage.


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## Suehil

Usually 'corn' in BE refers to 'oats'  - at least in farming circles.


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## nzfauna

I've never heard of your BE corn thing.

In NZE (a variant of BE), corn is only ever refers to the _*Zea mays*_ plant (what you call maize).  However, we don't use the term maize.

According to Wikipedia:

The term _maize_ derives from the Spanish form (_maíz_) of the indigenous Taino term for the plant, and is the form most commonly heard in the United Kingdom.[1] In the United States, Canada and Australia, the usual term is _corn_, *which originally referred to any grain (and still does in Britain),* but which now refers exclusively to maize, having been shortened from the form "Indian corn".[2]


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## Matching Mole

In Britain, the word still retains the generic quality it had when the word first entered the language. It is of no particular species: whatever the cereal crop of the region might be, that is corn. It might be wheat or oats, depending on where you are.

As a foodstuff, maize is also called corn in Britain, but it is qualified as "sweetcorn", or "corn on the cob" according to form.


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## cuchuflete

Nijan said:


> In BrE the lexeme CORN indicates a major number of referents. In fact, while in *AmE it refers only*to the seeds of maize, BrE  definition includes seeds of barley, oats, weath and  other similiar plants. The plant itself, on the contrary, could be called CORN only in AmE.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that distinction correct, or is there anything more I still missing?



To avoid embarrassing situations, it is good to note that in AE corn has yet another couple of meanings totally unrelated to agriculture or botany.

1. corn:   n.    A horny thickening of the skin,  resulting from pressure or friction. _ clavus_. 
2. Anything overly trite or sentimental

There are other less frequent meanings also.


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## subtitler

Hi!

In a program about dieting, a British (of Pakistani or Indian descent) young girl explains what she likes to eat: "I eat lots and lots of chocolate bars, *corn*, sandwiches, ice lollies, ice cream..." While she's explaining this, footage of chocolate bars, corn, sandwiches etc. is shown. "Corn" is seen only briefly and it looks like something yellow on a spoon. It could be either corn flakes, muesli, sweetcorn or something similar. Now, as far as I know, American word "corn" is always "sweetcorn" in Britain, whereas "corn" in Britain usually means grain. Am I correct? And what do you think the girl in question is referring to? What would children most likely eat in Britain in this context? Thanks for your help!


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## subtitler

Actually, it does look an awful lot like sweetcorn. The question is, could she say corn and mean sweetcorn?


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## ewie

Hi ST.  Yes, we sometimes abbreviate _sweetcorn_ as _corn_


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## natkretep

_Corn_ can mean grain, but quite often at the British dining table, _corn_ is what is known as _maize_ in some parts of the world. This was the term we used when I grew up in Malaysia, and so I was initially surprised, when I lived in the UK in the 1980s, to hear it referred to as _corn_.


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## Hermione Golightly

I have no idea what she meant. As you say, we say 'sweet corn' or corn- on- the- cob or corn kernels or nibs, while 'corn' refers to the grain crop otherwise called wheat. It would be unusual to be eating sweet corn all on its own off a spoon! Muesli is muesli and is not yellow. I would guess she meant cornflakes which would fit better with the rest of her junk food diet.

Afterthought: popcorn?


Hermione


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## ewie

Hermione Golightly said:


> Afterthought: popcorn?


_Quorn_?  (Nah, no-one in their right mind would eat that)


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## natkretep

Hermione Golightly said:


> It would be unusual to be eating sweet corn all on its own off a spoon!



Erm, my daughter (aged 13) likes to eat _creamed _corn from a tin all on its own.


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## ewie

natkretep said:


> Erm, my daughter (aged 13) likes to eat _creamed _corn from a tin all on its own.


 I eat (sweet)corn straight from the tin, given half a chance.  I love it


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## aes_uk

"Corn" on its own makes me think of the grain, although it could be short for sweetcorn, but normally we'd say "corn on the cob" to mean sweetcorn.

I think Hermione might be onto something with "popcorn" as before it's cooked, popcorn looks very like sweetcorn, so this might be what you saw. Popcorn would also fit in with the rest of the girl's unhealthy diet.


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## subtitler

aes_uk said:


> "Corn" on its own makes me think of the grain, although it could be short for sweetcorn, but normally we'd say "corn on the cob" to mean sweetcorn.
> 
> I think Hermione might be onto something with "popcorn" as before it's cooked, popcorn looks very like sweetcorn, so this might be what you saw. Popcorn would also fit in with the rest of the girl's unhealthy diet.


 
I dare say, she would not eat uncooked popcorn with a spoon, you know.  
Creamed corn is a good suggestion, didn't even think of that! However, it looks most likely like sweetcorn straight out of the tin (I love it too) even though it doesn't seem to fit her other foods. I still don't know!


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## JamesM

Hermione Golightly said:


> I have no idea what she meant. As you say, we say 'sweet corn' or corn- on- the- cob or corn kernels or nibs, while 'corn' refers to the grain crop otherwise called wheat.


 
That's interesting!  Wheat is called "corn"?  In American English, "corn" is always the same thing - the grain that grows on cornstalks, never wheat.

How do you use "corn" in the sense to mean wheat?  "I see a field of corn" would mean a field of wheat?  

I'd love to know more about this.  It's my surprise discovery of the day.


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## manon33

I'm inclining to Quorn...but agree with ewie that it's inedible. And it doesn't seem to fit with all unhealthy other rubbish she eats.


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## sandpiperlily

JamesM said:


> That's interesting!  Wheat is called "corn"?  In American English, "corn" is always the same thing - the grain that grows on cornstalks, never wheat.



Right, because maize originated in the Americas!

If I saw a spoonful of something yellow that was called *corn*, I'd assume it was *corn off the cob*, which involves cooking the grains of corn (maize), often with a little butter, salt, and maybe sugar and/or spices.  Do people eat this dish in the UK, and could this be what was in the spoon?

This is in contrast to *corn on the cob*, which is the entire ear of corn, boiled, steamed, or grilled.


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## Cagey

subtitler said:


> I dare say, she would not eat uncooked popcorn with a spoon, you know.
> Creamed corn is a good suggestion, didn't even think of that! However, it looks most likely like sweetcorn straight out of the tin (I love it too) even though it doesn't seem to fit her other foods. I still don't know!


In my experience, sweet corn is the one vegetable that children like, even if they don't like any other.  

Sweetcorn seems to be popular in India, too.  I found this on indianfoodforever.com:The Indian name of corn is "bhutta" or "makka"         or "makki". Indian people love to eat roasted & boiled         corn in rainy & winter season. It is said that corn was unknown to         the Europeans before they met the Indians. Indians gave them the seeds         and taught them how to grow it.​


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## Fabulist

Once upon a time, "corn" in England was any grain eaten by humans, including not only wheat but barley, rye, and oats.  _SOED_ says that locally it is used for the predominant grain there, so "corn" = wheat in England but oats in Scotland and "maize" in America.  In the 1840's, the "Corn Laws," over which there was a major battle, were tariffs on the importation of grain, but I don't think they applied only to wheat.  I think that "wheat" is also used in England and "oats" in Scotland, but in the U.S. "maize" is a very rare word, and is almost always called "corn"; I suspect that many Americans wouldn't know what "maize" was if you mentioned it.

From the comments above, it appears that usage in Britain is shifting toward the American meaning but has not arrived there yet.  In the U.S., "corn on the cob" refers only to maize with the kernels still on the ear.  Once the ear has been shucked, the kernels are just "corn."

If Pakistan follows the pattern of applying the word "corn" to the _locally predominant_ grain, then perhaps by "corn" the girl in the TV program meant something that is particular to Pakistan, and not anything that is familiar to Americans or Britons.  She (or her mother) might have to get it at a specialty store that caters to/for Asian immigrants and their descendents.


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## Myridon

subtitler said:


> ...  even though it doesn't seem to fit her other foods ...


Sandwiches are also in the list and could be healthy or unhealthy (she could be having cucumbers on whole grain toast sandwiches (very healthy) or  bacon, lard and grease  on fried white bread (very unhealthy)).


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## aes_uk

> I dare say, she would not eat uncooked popcorn with a spoon, you know.


I didn't mean that - I just thought that maybe they may have showed a picture of uncooked popcorn but the girl would obviously eat cooked popcorn. Was there just a picture of the corn or was the girl actually eating it? If she was eating it, I doubt it was popcorn then. 
The general consensus seems to be that it was sweetcorn that she was eating. None of the options really fit in with the other things she ate though - maybe she just had a bizarre diet!


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## natkretep

JamesM said:


> How do you use "corn" in the sense to mean wheat?  "I see a field of corn" would mean a field of wheat?
> 
> I'd love to know more about this.  It's my surprise discovery of the day.



When we sing the nursery rhyme 'Little Boy Blue':



> Little Boy Blue, come blow your horn,
> The sheep's in the meadow, the cow's in the corn


the setting is English, and _corn_ is wheat there. (I'm always tickled when I see American illustrations with sweetcorn (maize) - which does not grow in England!)

Similarly, in the (King James/Authorised Version) Bible, _corn_ just means grain, presumably wheat:



> At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his  disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to  eat. (Matthew 12.1)


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## Fabulist

natkretep said:


> sweetcorn (maize) - which does not grow in England!)


 
Apparently, over 100,000 hectares of maize is planted and harvested in England every year.  It is used for silage.  If I understand correctly, corn for human consumption is not grown in England because the days get too short too early for sugar production by the plants.


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## bennymix

Hermione Golightly said:


> I have no idea what she meant. As you say, we say 'sweet corn' or corn- on- the- cob or corn kernels or nibs, while *'corn' refers to the grain crop otherwise called wheat *{my bold, benny}*. *It would be unusual to be eating sweet corn all on its own off a spoon! Muesli is muesli and is not yellow. I would guess she meant cornflakes which would fit better with the rest of her junk food diet.
> 
> Afterthought: popcorn?
> 
> 
> Hermione



Is this {see bold} the current usage in BE, still, today?   I note Collins Concise:


Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::

*corn*/kɔːn/  n

Brit  any of various cereal plants, esp the predominant crop of a region, such as wheat in England and oats in Scotland and Ireland.
-------
This is not the first definition in some other British dictionaries.
==========
Recent example from the 'net:

Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::
==========

The Greek geographer Pytheas of Massalia visited southern Britain in around 322 BC and wrote the earliest account of Britain, that was re-told by other classical writers, such as Strabo:
"he saw plenty of corn in the fields in the south-east but also noted the gradual disappearance of various kinds of grain as one advanced towards the north"​Ancient Craft - Iron Age Living

====
I presume he {translator} meant oats or wheat.


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## kentix

Corn that is grown for animal feed we call field corn. Sweet corn is for human consumption. But when it hits your plate as a side dish/vegetable, it's usually just called corn.


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## RM1(SS)

Corn = grain(s)

Corned beef gets its name from the grains of salt used in making it.  Part of the process of making gunpowder is corning: Compressing the damp mixture into dense cakes, letting them dry, and then breaking them up into grains.


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## velisarius

Sorry, bennymix, but I don't understand your question. Which of the dictionary examples do you think no longer applies in BE?

I agree with Hermione.


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## bennymix

To clarify, I was just wondering if the primary meaning and usage of 'corn' is for cereal grains generally, in current BE.   I see some possible evidence of a slight shift in this entry below, at two points, highlighted in red.  I take the second red phrase  to mean "In UK, usually one says 'maize' for the 'tall plant...'"   Why 'usually'?
I take the occurrence of 'maize' in the first definition to mean that sometimes 'corn' BE does mean the seeds of 'maize'.

Cambridge online:
// B1 [ U ] UK *(the seeds of) plants, such as wheat, maize, oats, and barley, that can be used to produce flour: *
a sheaf of corn
grains of corn

[ U ] mainly US UK usually *maize* *a tall plant grown in many parts of the world for its yellow seeds, which are eaten as food, made into flour, or fed to animals: *
corn-fed chickens
the corn-growing areas of the Midwest  //

[ U ] mainly US UK usually *sweetcorn* *the seeds of a particular type of maize plant, eaten as a vegetable*


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## natkretep

If you're referring to food in a domestic or restaurant setting, _corn_ would usually mean _sweetcorn _nowadays. In BrE, cornflour (not maize flour) is what Americans call cornstarch.

In an agricultural setting, I think corn still means grain, not necessarily maize. Yes, I assume the Collins quotation refers to wheat.


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## velisarius

In BE the meaning of "corn" is context-dependent. It's sometimes just a shorter way of referring to "sweetcorn" or "corn on the cob".

I once saw a TV documentary for children, about life in Ancient Egypt, where they translated "corn" into the Greek word meaning "maize". I guessed the translator knew only the AE use of "corn", but commonsense should have told them that maize wasn't being cultivated on the banks of the Nile in the time of the pharaohs.


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## bennymix

Hi Velisarius,   when you heard "Sheep's  in the meadows; cow's in the corn.  "   What did you picture?   This?

Cow's In The Corn 2 by Kathryn Armstrong

When you hear the phrase 'bottle of corn' what do you picture?


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## natkretep

I have already commented on ''the cow's in the corn' in post 24. It's wheat.


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## Loob

natkretep said:


> I have already commented on ''the cow's in the corn' in post 24. It's wheat.


 


bennymix said:


> When you hear the phrase 'bottle of corn' what do you picture?


Absolutely nothing...
(From a quick Google, I imagine it has something to do with whiskey?)


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## velisarius

I have a dim recollection of tinned sweetcorn being something of a novelty in England when I was a small child. "Maize" was a word I learned in geography lessons. Domestic hens used to be fed on kitchen scraps, and cows and sheep used to be pastured on grass, so as far as I remember we didn't encounter "corn-fed" animals either (meat animals fed on maize).


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## sound shift

bennymix said:


> When you hear the phrase 'bottle of corn' what do you picture?


I've never heard that, but I suppose it might mean "a bottle of schnapps". Could be German "Korn" leading me astray here.


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## bennymix

sound shift said:


> I've never heard that, but I suppose it might mean "a bottle of schnapps". Could be German "Korn" leading me astray here.



You're warm.  It occurs in the old song.  

Hand me down my walking cane

Hand me down my walking cane
[//]
I’m going to leave on the morning train
My friends they have all forsaken me

Well I got drunk and I got in jail [...]

Hand me down that bottle of corn...


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## PaulQ

BE:
A corn (countable) is any grain or seed (c.f. peppercorn.) This use is now all but obsolete.
More generally, corn (uncountable) is mainly wheat, and oats, but can include barley, or rye 
Corn can refer to a crop of the above or their grains when harvested.

Over the past, say 60 years, corn has become to be used in place of sweetcorn/corn-on-the-cob/maize. There is rarely confusion as the distinction is in the context.
Maize is usually used for the commercial crop and when it is used as cattle-food or cooking oil.


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## kentix

We call that corn oil.


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## PaulQ

Ah... In the UK, it is known as corn oil also, but if you are asked "What is corn oil made from?", the answer is "maize", not "corn."


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## Hermione Golightly

That rather nice painting of a cow is American so naturally that cow is in the sweetcorn/maize.
Funnily enough, I was talking about sweetcorn in the dentist's waiting room, as one does, only yesterday, because I actually have two plants growing on my balcony as a joke, and I was wondering if I needed to pollinate them having just learnt to my dismay that I will need to pollinate my courgette plant! I also learnt that maize is grown in England and has been for years but the growing season is too short for the human consumption variety.

It seems that earliest printed version of the rhyme was 18th century but it may be alluded to in Shakespeare's King Lear (III, vi):Sleepest or wakest thou, jolly shepheard?
Thy sheepe be in the corne;
And for one blast of thy minikin mouth
Thy sheepe shall take no harme.[1]
[WIKI]
 'Corn' does not refer to maize.


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## Loob

bennymix said:


> sound shift said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard that, but I suppose it might mean "a bottle of schnapps". ...
> 
> 
> 
> You're warm.  It occurs in the old song.
> ...
> Hand me down that bottle of corn...
Click to expand...

So what _does_ it mean then, benny?


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## bennymix

Loob said:


> So what _does_ it mean then, benny?



Corn whiskey.


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## Loob

Ah, so I guessed right!


Loob said:


> (From a quick Google, I imagine it has something to do with whiskey?)


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## kentix

As I said in an earlier comment, in the U.S. the corn grown for animal feed is called field corn. I was curious which corn cooking oil is made from, field corn or sweet corn. My guess was field corn and that turns out to be correct. It's used for corn products like corn oil, corn syrup, corn starch (and ethanol, of course).

There is a brand of corn oil called Mazola.


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