# 深嚼



## Ben pan

这些东西要不太怪异，有点天方夜谭；要不太平淡，不值得深嚼。你觉得深嚼可以吗？深嚼意思上当然没问题，我的意思是说，它会显得古板吗？
深嚼是一个very very big word 吗？ 你们更愿意用什么字来替代呢？


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## Skatinginbc

I have no problem with 深嚼.  Actually, I kind of like it.  What strikes me as strange, however, is 要不...要不.  I typically expect 要不...就是.  Perhaps dialectal differences?  I don't know.


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## Ben pan

你说得非常对，我写错了。我的原文其实不是这样的，这是仓促打上去的。读起来，很不顺。


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## xiaolijie

> 深嚼是一个very very big word 吗？


It seems to be a rare word. None of the dictionaries I looked up had it. 
咀嚼 seems to be easier to find but I don't know if it can be used instead of 深嚼.


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> I have no problem with 深嚼.  Actually, I kind of like it.  What strikes me as strange, however, is 要不...要不.  I typically expect 要不...就是.  Perhaps dialectal differences?  I don't know.


Strange. I think 要不……要不…… is perfect while 要不……就是…… is wrong.
There's  要不……要不……; 不是……就是……; but I don't think there's 要不……就是……
There's 要不就是……, but cannot be separated. It's not a pair of 關聯詞語.

And, I think 深嚼 is good since it refers to 深深咀嚼，細細品味. 我想用「細品」也可以。


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## Skatinginbc

我*要不是*抽风了*就是*眼花了(http://zqbf530.com/huangguanzuqiugaidan/2.html). either...or
这些东西要不(是)太怪异，就是太平淡，either...or....
要不…要不...(incomplete list)
The OP's sentence seems to indicate a complete list (either...or).


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 我*要不是*抽风了*就是*眼花了(http://zqbf530.com/huangguanzuqiugaidan/2.html). either...or
> 这些东西要不(是)太怪异，就是太平淡，either...or....
> 要不…要不...(incomplete list)
> The OP's sentence seems to indicate a complete list (either...or).


I personally preferred to analyze 我要不是抽风了就是眼花了 in this way:
我 要*不是*抽风了，*就是*眼花了。 要=要是=如果.
In this sentence, I don't think we can omit the first 是. I think the key pair here is 不是...就是... not 要不……就是……
要不是 can also be used in other structures, such as 要不是……早就……

In 这些东西要不太怪异，有点天方夜谭；要不太平淡，不值得深嚼。 There isn't 是. I don't think you can change the second 要不 into 就是 directly.
I consider 要不……要不…… is the 关联词语 in this sentence. It equals to 要么……要么…… However, I admit this usage is regional.


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## xiaolijie

I'm with the post above:

要不是..., 就是... : If not (A), then (B).
要不..., 要不...  : Either (A), or (B).


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## Skatinginbc

I'm not arguing which usage is "correct".  I simply want to understand the logic (or meaning) behind.  In my concept, there is a difference between a "complete list of options" and an "incomplete list of options".  
"要不(是)...就是" ("If not A, then B") is a complete list of options: Either A or B is true.  There is no C, D, or any other possible options.  
 点了7个菜，就一个西兰花可以入口，其他*要不*太甜*就是*太咸 (http://www.dianping.com/shop/5398577/dish-上海油爆虾) ==> Those dishes were either too sweet or too salty.  There was no in between. 
系统分配不公平，奶妈*要不*太多*就是*太少 (http://xx.duowan.com/1303/228149792386.html) ==> The allocation of nannies was unfair, either too many or too few.    
Obviously the linking verb 是 is optional in 要不是 when it is followed by an adjectival phrase (e.g., 太甜, 太多, 太平淡).

 My question: Does 要不...要不 structure imply a complete list of options (either A or B) or an incomplete list of options (A, B, or something else not being mentioned)?
記得我媽一直想做菜頭跪，但口感就是不對，*要不*太黏、*要不*太硬、*要不*沒有菜頭香....(http://miniyuan.pixnet.net/blog/category/1429526) ==> To my understanding, we can *要不**要不* forever.  If there is a *就是* in the end, we know all options are exhausted.  If no *就是*, those options listed could be merely a sample.  Is my understanding correct?


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## Ben pan

SuperXW said:


> Strange. I think 要不……要不…… is perfect while 要不……就是…… is wrong.
> There's  要不……要不……; 不是……就是……; but I don't think there's 要不……就是……
> There's 要不就是……, but cannot be separated. It's not a pair of 關聯詞語.
> 
> And, I think 深嚼 is good since it refers to 深深咀嚼，細細品味. 我想用「細品」也可以。



I think 要不.．．．就是．is wrong. I agree with you on this.
I think we only say 不是..就是..or 要不就是..要不就是...
But I disagree with you about 要不，要不。I think 要不..要不..is not perfect. 要么..要么 is better. In some context 要不...要不... is OK with me. For example: 要不你把我杀了，要不你嘛（四声）也别说了。要不...要不 carries a stronger mood, much stronger than 要么..要么...  ，which makes it inappropriate in this case. 

 Above all, 要不 can only be followed by verbs. So that if you stick to it, you have to add 就是.


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## xiaolijie

Ben pan said:


> But I disagree with you about 要不，要不。I think 要不..要不..is not perfect. 要么..要么 is better. In some context 要不...要不... is OK with me. For example: 要不你把我杀了，要不你嘛（四声）也别说了。要不...要不 carries a stronger mood, much stronger than 要么..要么...  ，which makes it inappropriate in this case.
> 
> Above all, 要不 can only be followed by verbs. So that if you stick to it, you have to add 就是.



I've just tried checking, and here are some examples you may like to think over. They don't seem to support what you're saying:

我们要不去看电影，要不去咖啡厅，你说呢？ 
今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，要不在下午。


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## He Runnan

深嚼most the time was used in literature or maybe lectures in the class,you can use"深究"，"不值得深究" is very common in daily life.


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## Ben pan

xiaolijie said:


> I've just tried checking, and here are some examples you may like to think over. They don't seem to support what you're saying:
> 
> 我们要不去看电影，要不去咖啡厅，你说呢？
> 今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，要不在下午。



I think your second example should modify my point to be that 要不 must be followed with a moderately long phrase which can express an independent meaning.
We can say: 要么上午，要么下午，你来定吧。But not as good to say : 要不上午，要不下午。I am not sure whether this makes sense. Maybe as a poster in this thread has said, this is a matter of dialect, not only style, so it is very hard to give a standard answer.


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## Ben pan

He Runnan said:


> 深嚼most the time was used in literature or maybe lectures in the class,you can use"深究"，"不值得深究" is very common in daily life.




I  think 深嚼 can be replaced by 细品 or 细读，but 深究 is appropriate in this case.
不值得深究 usually is directed against something strange, outrageous which being 深究， will be overthrown.  Whereas for something plain and right, namely a simple truth, better not say 不值得深究。


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## SuperXW

He Runnan said:


> 深嚼most the time was used in literature or maybe lectures in the class,you can use"深究"，"不值得深究" is very common in daily life.


我第一时间也想到"深究"，不过又想了想，作者故意用"深嚼"这个词，是要带出"品味"的意思，和"深究"的感觉不太一样。
不过还是谢谢你！你不说我还以为写作"深纠"！


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> I'm not arguing which usage is "correct".  I simply want to understand the logic (or meaning) behind.  In my concept, there is a difference between a "complete list of options" and an "incomplete list of options".
> "要不(是)...就是" ("If not A, then B") is a complete list of options: Either A or B is true.  There is no C, D, or any other possible options.
> 点了7个菜，就一个西兰花可以入口，其他*要不*太甜*就是*太咸 (http://www.dianping.com/shop/5398577/dish-上海油爆虾) ==> Those dishes were either too sweet or too salty.  There was no in between.
> 系统分配不公平，奶妈*要不*太多*就是*太少 (http://xx.duowan.com/1303/228149792386.html) ==> The allocation of nannies was unfair, either too many or too few.
> Obviously the linking verb 是 is optional in 要不是 when it is followed by an adjectival phrase (e.g., 太甜, 太多, 太平淡).
> 
> My question: Does 要不...要不 structure imply a complete list of options (either A or B) or an incomplete list of options (A, B, or something else not being mentioned)?
> 記得我媽一直想做菜頭跪，但口感就是不對，*要不*太黏、*要不*太硬、*要不*沒有菜頭香....(http://miniyuan.pixnet.net/blog/category/1429526) ==> To my understanding, we can *要不**要不* forever.  If there is a *就是* in the end, we know all options are exhausted.  If no *就是*, those options listed could be merely a sample.  Is my understanding correct?


I still think 要不……就是……, is an overly casual variant of 要不……要不…… mixed up with 不是……就是……, or a careless abbreviation of 要不是……就是……

Anyway, as I said "要不……要不" could be regional. 如果换成"要么……要么……" 大家就没意见了吧？
逻辑关系也同"要么……要么……"。如果只有两项，那就是二选一；如果多项，就是多选一。不必用"就是"收尾，最后一项就是最后一项。


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## Skatinginbc

Thank you, SuperXW.  Please allow my final question to make sure we understand each other correctly.  This is the difference in my dialect: 
A: 今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，要不在下午, 你来定吧 (giving a sample of suggestions: 上午，下午.  The possibility of 晚上 is not excluded).
B: 我上午下午都没空.  晚上八点好不好.

A: 今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，就是在下午, 你来定吧 (If not 上午, then 下午.  The possibility of 晚上 is excluded). 
 B: 我上午下午都没空.  晚上真的不行吗? 

If I understand correctly, you said "要不在上午，要不在下午" in your dialect gives an exclusive list rather than a sample of suggestions and therefore bars the possibility of 晚上.  Is that correct?


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## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> Thank you, SuperXW.  Please allow my final question to make sure we understand each other correctly.  This is the difference in my dialect:
> A: 今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，要不在下午, 你来定吧 (giving a sample of suggestions: 上午，下午.  The possibility of 晚上 is not excluded).
> B: 我上午下午都没空.  晚上八点好不好.
> 
> A: 今天咱们总得碰一次面，要不在上午，就是在下午, 你来定吧 (If not 上午, then 下午.  The possibility of 晚上 is excluded).
> B: 我上午下午都没空.  晚上真的不行吗?
> 
> If I understand correctly, you said "要不在上午，要不在下午" in your dialect gives an exclusive list rather than a sample of suggestions and therefore bars the possibility of 晚上.  Is that correct?


Yes. It ruled out the possibility of 晚上.

I think 要不在上午，就是在下午 make sense here because it's a suggestion: 如果不在上午，那么就在下午。 
However, the original sentence can't use 要不……就是…… in this way because it's not a suggestion, but a description of fact: 
这些东西要不太怪异，有点天方夜谭；要不太平淡，不值得深嚼。 Some of them ARE too strange, while others ARE too dull... 
要不……要不…… does not follow its literal meaning. It doesn't mean "if not... if not..."


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## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> Yes. It ruled out the possibility of 晚上.


Thanks for the info.


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