# Before & earlier



## Tigers85

*I would like to know the difference between “before” and “earlier” in (1):*

*(1) The house next door had been sold a month before/ earlier.*
** 
*Tigers 85*
 
* PS   I already checked "Dictionary and thread title search".*


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## mrr5052

They are pretty much the same but if you want to get extremely technical...
*Before  *is a preposition and, generally, you are not supposed to end a sentence in a preposition in English.


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## AlabamaBoy

You picked an example where both words are used as adverbs. In this case the difference between the two is minimal. _Before_ is most often used as a preposition. Beware that "_earlie__r_" can not be used as a preposition. But the two are really shortened versions of longer phrases:

*The house next door had been sold a month before I moved in.

**The house next door had been sold a month earlier than the date I moved in.
*
_Earlier_ is really a comparison bewteen two times and takes "than." _Before_ is a preposition that tells you the relationship between two times.  If that all sounds like very little difference, you are right. It is subtle.*
*


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## Tigers85

Thank you very much.

Tigers 85


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## Jasquil

Are these sentences correct and do they sound natural to you?
1. "Why had you never come there earlier?"
2. I have come here earlier.
Thank you.


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## roamer

mrr5052 said:


> They are pretty much the same but if you want to get extremely technical...
> *Before  *is a preposition and, generally, you are not supposed to end a sentence in a preposition in English.



So, why are there so many cases of Prepositional Stranding in English? 

e.g. Who's that man you're looking AT??


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## AlabamaBoy

Off topic but prepositions are very often at the end of a clause in English. The rule against it is questionable. "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." - Winston Churchill


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## Anushka Athukorala

Hello Members 
I would also like to know a few things about before and earlier.
1. Do both BEFORE & EARLIER always go with the perfect tense? I made the sentences below and I would like to know if they are correct. 
We went to the same beach where we had had fun 4 years before/earlier. Or where we had fun 4 years before/earlier.

2.  Which preposition sound natural with the sentence below? 
We want to deliver this order earlier than Monday. Or before Monday.


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## velisarius

I don't see any problems there.

1)_ We went to the same beach where we had had fun 4 years before.
We went to the same beach where we had had fun 4 years earlier._ I think this is okay too. I would use "previously".

_2) We want to deliver this order before Monday. _
_We want to deliver this order earlier than Monday.  _

_3) We never deliver before 7:30. 
We never deliver earlier than 7:30.
_


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## Anushka Athukorala

Hello Velisarius 
Thank you so much for your helpful explanation and judging from the corrections I guess both BEFORE and EARLIER cannot be used in SIMPLE PAST TENSE as in 
We went to the same beach where we had fun 4 years before/earlier.
 Am I right in making that conclusion?


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## velisarius

Oh yes, I forgot the other example. I can't really envision myself using the simple past in your sentence, but I don't rule it out in other contexts.

They aren't really interchangeable here: 
_
This is a book I have read before.
This book is the one I read earlier.
This is a cake I prepared earlier._


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## Lun-14

Hi Velisarius,

I met a doctor 30 minutes *before*.
I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*.

Could you please explain the difference?

Thanks


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## Florentia52

Lun-14 said:


> I met a doctor 30 minutes *before*.
> I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*.
> 
> Could you please explain the difference?


Please provide some context for these new sentences. In what situation would you use each of them?


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## Lun-14

Florentia52 said:


> Please provide some context for these new sentences. In what situation would you use each of them?


My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes before (my uncle died)
Or, 
My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes earlier (my uncle died)

I want to know whether "before" and "earlier" can be used interchangeably here.


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## Anushka Athukorala

Hello Velisarius

Thanks for the answer and examples. From those examples I can further conclude that "before" is almost always used with the perfect tense and "earlier" can be used with both perfect tense and simple past tense.
Have I learned the difference right?

_<-----Edited by moderator (Florentia52) for readability----->_


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## PaulQ

Prior to sometime in the last century, there was not much of a distinction between before and earlier, however, current use does tend to make a distinction:

*Before *is now mainly a preposition with the meaning of *"prior to"* As it is a preposition, it *must *have a nominal/pronomial as an object. In the example below, you *must *remove the brackets.

My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes before (my uncle died.)

*Before *is capable of referring to time and *place *(Two soldiers stood *before *the door.)
*Earlier *is exclusively a *comparative adverb/adjective* and does not require an object. It has the meaning of *previous[ly]*.
My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes earlier.

There are exceptions when both are adverbs: 
A: "Who is that man?"
B(i): "I don't know his name but I *have seen* him *before*." -> before = on a previous occasion.
B(ii): "Which man? Do you mean the one who is *before *us in the queue?"
B(iii): "I don't know his name but I *saw *him *earlier*." -> earlier = at a time that is "more early" than now. (Also as adjective: "The earlier model is unreliable.")


Anushka Athukorala said:


> Thanks for the answer and examples. From those examples I can further conclude that "before" is almost always used with the perfect tense and "earlier" can be used with both perfect tense and simple past tense.
> Have I learned the difference right?


No. Your guidance is not accurate enough to be helpful.
"I was a policeman before I became a doctor." 
"Two soldiers stood *before *the door." 
"They finished the discussion before he changed his mind."


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## Anushka Athukorala

Hello Paul
Thanks for the answer. I guess BEFORE in the examples below has been used as a PREPOSITION.
"I was a policeman before I became a doctor." 
"Two soldiers stood *before *the door." 
"They finished the discussion before he changed his mind." [/QUOTE]

So when BEFORE is an adverb, can it be always used with perfect tense and simple past.
I don't know his name but I have seen him before.
She wanted to buid her house where she had lived 15 years before.
This is the book I told you about earlier/before.
This is the hotel we tried to have our wedding party earlier/before.


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## PaulQ

I think that is correct. If before is an adverb, you can use "earlier", if before is a preposition, you can't.


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## Anushka Athukorala

Thank you so much. So what about the two sentences below? Both BEFORE and EARLIER are used as adverbs. Therefore using simple past is possible with BEFORE.
This is the book I told you about earlier/before.
This is the hotel we tried to have our wedding party earlier/before.


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## PaulQ

This is the book I told you about earlier/before.  <- before is an adverb
This is the hotel we tried to have our wedding party earlier/before.  This is ambiguous and not idiomatic, although it is used colloquially.

Only "earlier" works and it should be "This is the hotel where/at which we earlier tried to have our wedding party."


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## Anushka Athukorala

Thanks for the answer and corrections. This is my final sentence.
This is the hotel where we had tried to have our wedding party.
Does it sound natural to you?


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## PaulQ

No. 


Anushka Athukorala said:


> This is my final sentence.


That is my final answer.


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## Anushka Athukorala

I am sorry my sentence should have had BEFORE.
This is the hotel where we had tried to have our wedding party before.
Does it sound natural to your ears?


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## PaulQ

No. It sounds colloquial and, perhaps, a little uneducated.


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## Anushka Athukorala

Thank you for your help.☺


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## Florentia52

Lun-14 said:


> My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes before (my uncle died)
> Or,
> My uncle died 5 hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes earlier (my uncle died)
> 
> I want to know whether "before" and "earlier" can be used interchangeably here.


The second is possible. The first would need to be something like this:

"My uncle died five hours ago. I met a doctor 30 minutes before that."

As an aside, the sentences don't seem to have anything to do with each other: your uncle died five hours ago, and you made the acquaintance of a doctor five and a half hours ago. If you meant for them to have a logical connection,, perhaps you were trying to say something like this:

"My uncle died five hours ago. I had met with his physician only 30 minutes earlier."


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## Lun-14

Thanks.
_I met a doctor 30 minutes *before*.
I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*._
As standalone sentences, how would you interpret these sentences?
(Forget he context that I provided in #14)


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## PaulQ

_I met a doctor 30 minutes *before*. _-> I would understand that you had failed to complete the sentence and my question would be "Before what?"
_I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*. _-> this is idiomatic.


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## Lun-14

I've read that
I ate an apple an hour *ago*. -> I ate an apple an hour *before now*. (e.g. It's 9:05 pm now. I ate the apple at 8:05 pm - an hour before now) ->>> "Ago" has a connection to the present.
I ate an apple an hour *before*/*earlier*. -> "Before" and "earlier" both raise the question "Before what/earlier than what?" i.e. there sure is some other action that happened after the action of eating the apple. Simply I want to say: I ate an apple before/earlier than *[some other action] *->>> "Before/earlier" doesn't have connection to the present.



PaulQ said:


> I would understand that you had failed to complete the sentence and my question would be "Before what?"


As per what I read, the sentence "_I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*" _should also raise the question "earlier than what?". It is also an incomplete sentence. So why wouldn't you ask "earlier than what?" here?

Could you please explain?


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## PaulQ

Lun-14 said:


> both raise the question "Before what/earlier than what?"


Lun... please pay attention to your own posts:


Lun-14 said:


> _I met a doctor 30 minutes *before*.
> I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*._
> As standalone sentences, *how would you interpret these sentences?*


and I told you.

Save yourself a lot of time and worry - use "before" as a preposition and "earlier" as an adjective/adverb.


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## natkretep

Lun-14 said:


> As per what I read, the sentence "_I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*" _should also raise the question "earlier than what?". It is also an incomplete sentence. So why wouldn't you ask "earlier than what?" here?


The issue is grammatical. _Before_ is mainly a preposition (or a conjunction) and therefore cannot stand alone.  If I say, 'I saw him at', you will saw the sentence is incomplete. A preposition needs an object.

An adverb can still be vague, but the sentence is grammatical. If it is now clear, we make assumptions - before now, before the time referred to in the previous sentence, etc.


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## Forero

Lun-14 said:


> I've read that
> I ate an apple an hour *ago*. -> I ate an apple an hour *before now*. (e.g. It's 9:05 pm now. I ate the apple at 8:05 pm - an hour before now) ->>> "Ago" has a connection to the present.
> I ate an apple an hour *before*/*earlier*. -> "Before" and "earlier" both raise the question "Before what/earlier than what?" i.e. there sure is some other action that happened after the action of eating the apple. Simply I want to say: I ate an apple before/earlier than *[some other action] *->>> "Before/earlier" doesn't have connection to the present.


I don't know what you mean by "connection to the present", but "ago" does not work with present perfect (except for "historical present", where it means the same as past perfect).





> As per what I read, the sentence "_I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*" _should also raise the question "earlier than what?". It is also an incomplete sentence. So why wouldn't you ask "earlier than what?" here?


I agree. I would ask "earlier than what?".


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## Lun-14

Forero said:


> I agree. I would ask "earlier than what?".


You would ask. PaulQ wouldn't. I'm confused. What's the solution to this problem?


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## velisarius

I would ask too, if that's any help. I've forgotten what the problem was though.


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## Lun-14

velisarius said:


> I would ask too, if that's any help. I've forgotten what the problem was though.


Read Paul's #16 and my #29 and then you'll be able to know what problem I'm facing.


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## Barque

Lun-14 said:


> Read Paul's #16 and my #29 and then you'll be able to know what problem I'm facing.


Natkretep has already explained it in #31.


Lun-14 said:


> the sentence "_I met a doctor 30 minutes *earlier*" _should also raise the question "earlier than what?". It is also an incomplete sentence.


An incomplete sentence is one that has something missing. A sentence isn't incomplete merely because it makes the listener ask something.

"I met a doctor thirty minutes before" sounds incomplete. It makes the listener think a word has been left out. He'd ask "Before what?" to mean "What's the next word, the one you seem to have left out?"

"I met a doctor thirty minutes earlier" is a complete sentence. Yes, it might make the listener ask "Earlier than what?" if there was no context, meaning "What are you referring to?" But the sentence itself is grammatical and complete.


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## Lun-14

_I met a doctor thirty minutes before.
I met a doctor thirty minutes earlier._

Both "before" and "earlier" are adverbs here in these sentences, and as per Paul's answer, when they are adverbs, they can be used interchangeably - there's no difference. So I'm confused about why the first one sounds incomplete and the second one complete to you?


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## Forero

Barque said:


> Natkretep has already explained it in #31.
> 
> An incomplete sentence is one that has something missing. A sentence isn't incomplete merely because it makes the listener ask something.
> 
> "I met a doctor thirty minutes before" sounds incomplete. It makes the listener think a word has been left out. He'd ask "Before what?" to mean "What's the next word, the one you seem to have left out?"
> 
> "I met a doctor thirty minutes earlier" is a complete sentence. Yes, it might make the listener ask "Earlier than what?" if there was no context, meaning "What are you referring to?" But the sentence itself is grammatical and complete.


I disagree. Both sentences are grammatically complete but both leave me looking for more context.

The two sentences, however, are not the same. Even given identical context, they do not have to mean the same thing.

I wonder if changing _met_ to _had met_ would improve the _before_ sentence in the minds of those who consider it grammatically incomplete.


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## Lun-14

Forero said:


> The two sentences, however, are not the same


So what difference do you perceive between both sentences? Can you please explain?


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## Forero

Lun-14 said:


> So what difference do you perceive between *the two* sentences? Can you please explain?


The difference depends on the context. For example, in a context with two times or types of times mentioned, _earlier_ may refer to one but _before_ to the other.

I am more comfortable answering to a specific context than trying to explain several factors at once. One factor is the use of past simple rather than present perfect or past perfect.

I don't think anyone has responded to this yet:





Jasquil said:


> Are these sentences correct and do they sound natural to you?
> 1. "Why had you never come there earlier?"
> 2. I have come here earlier.
> Thank you.


These are unusual sentences that could be meaningful in the right context, but change _earlier_ to _before_ and they become ordinary sentences with a different meaning.

And notice that AlabamaBoy adds "the date" with "earlier than" but not with "before":





AlabamaBoy said:


> You picked an example where both words are used as adverbs. In this case the difference between the two is minimal. _Before_ is most often used as a preposition. Beware that "_earlier_" can not be used as a preposition. But the two are really shortened versions of longer phrases:
> 
> *The house next door had been sold a month before I moved in.
> 
> The house next door had been sold a month earlier than the date I moved in.*


Here the difference is more subtle, but there is obviously a grammatical difference between "before" and "earlier than".


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## Lun-14

Forero said:


> For example, in a context with two times or types of times mentioned, _earlier_ may refer to one but _before_ to the other.





Forero said:


> .One factor is the use of past simple rather than present perfect or past perfect.



Could you please explain with an example what you're trying to say here?


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## Forero

Lun-14 said:


> Could you please explain with an example what you're trying to say here?


Here is an example:
_
I usually come here around six o'clock, but I have come here earlier._ [earlier than six o'clock]
_I usually come here around six o'clock, but I have come here before._ [before now]

Notice the contrast between coming multiple times in the present and the mention of one or more examples from the past. This context gives the different meanings [in brackets] to _earlier_ and _before_.

And if _before_ in the second sentence is supposed to mean the same as _earlier_ in the first sentence, the second sentence is incomplete and should probably say "... before that".

I have not been able to assign one meaning to _before_ or to _earlier_ in the sentences in this thread that are being asked about without context, and I need to be able to assign meanings before I can describe the difference, if any, between them.


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