# Saudi Arabic: أبي - أبغى



## makandés66

in a language exercise concentrating on Saudi dialect,  A friend tells another friend in the source conversation that "I would like to go one of these days".  In arabic, ابي اروح في يوم من الايام    I am interested by the ابي اروح formation and how can I change the person to 2nd and 3rd person? would, "would you like to go?" be ابك تروح؟؟


و شكرا


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## Schem

This is how the verb is conjugated in Guisseemi Arabic (and how questions would be formed accordingly):

I want to go: أبي اروح
You want to go: تبي تروح
You want to go: تبين تروحين (feminine)
You want to go: تبون تروحون (plural)
You want to go: تَبِن تُروحِن (feminine plural) 
He wants to go: يبي يروح
We want to go: نبي نروح
They want to go: يبون يروحون
They want to go: يَبِن يُروحِن (feminine)

It's important to note that the verb "to want" is also the standard verb for forming the future tense in Najdi Arabic so the same sentence could mean "I _will _go one of these days". I would say this is the reason the verb Widdi ودّي (first person singular) is the more commonly used "to want" verb. Nevertheless, when used for future reference the verb is usually shortened into a prefix; normally the first letter of the word or the first two in the case أبي. So the same sentences abbreviated for a future tense would be:

I will go: أبَروح
You will go: تَتروح
You will go: تَتروحين (feminine)
You will go: تَتروحون (plural)
You will go: تَتُروحِن (feminine plural) 
He will go: يَيروح
We will go: نَنروح
They will go: يَيروحون
They will go: يَيُروحِن (feminine)

Finally, as a reminder, I think it's important to mention that no Arabic dialect can be encompassingly called "Saudi". The verb is a characteristic of Najdi Arabic, and is also found slightly altered in Khaleeji dialects. Although I suppose Najdi is synonymous with Saudi to some.


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## Tracer

Schem said:


> I would say this is the reason the verb Widdi ودّي (first person singular) is the more commonly used "to want" verb.



I have heard "widdi" *ودّي *for "I want". 

I have also heard  "awudd" * اودّ  *for "I want".

What is the grammatical and usage difference?


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## makandés66

Schem said:


> Finally, as a reminder, I think it's important to mention that no Arabic dialect can be encompassingly called "Saudi". The verb is a characteristic of Najdi Arabic, and is also found slightly altered in Khaleeji dialects. Although I suppose Najdi is synonymous with Saudi to some.



Yes you are right, I did not realize at first that this was a dialectical feature, should have asked that too!  thanks for your help/


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## Schem

Anytime. 


Tracer said:


> I have heard "widdi" *ودّي *for "I want".
> 
> I have also heard  "awudd" * اودّ  *for "I want".
> 
> What is the grammatical and usage difference?



I know of MSA awadd(u) which I've never heard used out of MSA contexts,  but this is the first time I see "awudd". What dialect uses it? I'm  afraid it's a dialectal feature and not one pertaining to grammar or  usage because the only awadd(u) derivative that Guisseemi Arabic uses is  "widdi".


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## Tracer

You're right....it's MSA "awadd(u) that I heard.....I'm not even sure I heard it in a "normal" conversation...it could have been radio or spoken MSA.  I just remember that I heard it "somewhere" and that it was different from the usual "widdi".  What I'm sure about though, is that I've heard "abgha"  "bagheet" as an alternate for "to want" although again, precisely where I heard it I can't say....but that's a different subject/thread.


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## Schem

Abgha أبغى (which past tense form is bagheit بغيت) is typical of Hejazi/Riyadhi Arabic. 

Some Baharna and Khaleeji speakers also use Abghi أبغي, but this isn't the lets-mention-all-forms-of-I-want thread so I shall leave it at that.


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## WadiH

Schem said:


> Abgha أبغى (which past tense form is bagheit بغيت) is typical of Hejazi/Riyadhi Arabic.



Gesseemi uses أبغى as well.  What do you think is the past form of أبي?  It is none other than بغى! When you want to say that Fulaan almost fell on his face, you would say بغى يطيح على وجهه.  This, of course, is because أبي itself is simply أبغي with the غ elided (you hear the same development occurring in the Urban Hejaz as we speak and it has apparently already occurred in Libya).

I would argue that ودّي and أب(غ)ي are not exact synonyms (i.e. there are situations where one is more appropriate than the other).  That is why Najdi Arabic continues to use both.  For example, if you want to ask your father if needs anything (a glass of water, a cup of coffee, etc.) it would be rude to him (or anyone else for that matter) وش تبي؟ (in the present tense).  Rather, you would use the past form وش بغيت؟ (that's certainly how I hear Gesseemi's do it).  Now, you may counter by saying that a true Gesseemi would ask his father وش ودّك به?  But that would not convey the same meaning.  Instead of answering that he'd like a glass of water he'd be more likely to answer that he desires a vacation in Italy or a house in Spain or a hundred million riyals so he can retire!

Finally, just a small note to the OP: the "future" tense forms suggested by Schem which use the تـ prefix (تتروحون, etc.) are specific to the Gesseem region and are not widely known elsewhere.  The more commonly-used prefix is بـ, so بتروحون بيروح بتروح etc., although the form راح has become very widespread in recent years (راح ناكل راح نطلع راح يفوزون etc.).


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## Schem

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Gesseemi uses أبغى as well.  What do you think is the past form of أبي?  It is none other than بغى! When you want to say that Fulaan almost fell on his face, you would say بغى يطيح على وجهه.  This, of course, is because أبي itself is simply أبغي with the غ elided (you hear the same development occurring in the Urban Hejaz as we speak and it has apparently already occurred in Libya).




True, although I have to admit I haven't thought about it this way. However, no one I know (re-)adds the غ when the verb is expressed in the present tense, it's almost always said أبي not أبغى. Except perhaps for teenage girls wanting to add a bit of "Riyadhi prestige" to their jargon, but those are a special case (thankfully a minority) and don't really adhere to Guisseemi speech anyway.



> I would argue that ودّي and أب(غ)ي are not exact synonyms (i.e. there are situations where one is more appropriate than the other).  That is why Najdi Arabic continues to use both.  For example, if you want to ask your father if needs anything (a glass of water, a cup of coffee, etc.) it would be rude to him (or anyone else for that matter) وش تبي؟ (in the present tense).  Rather, you would use the past form وش بغيت؟ (that's certainly how I hear Gesseemi's do it).  Now, you may counter by saying that a true Gesseemi would ask his father وش ودّك به?  But that would not convey the same meaning.  Instead of answering that he'd like a glass of water he'd be more likely to answer that he desires a vacation in Italy or a house in Spain or a hundred million riyals so he can retire!




«وش بغيت؟» would indeed be the more appropriate question to apply in this situation. My theory was only a suggestion, not a very good one at that either. You provide very good reasoning.

PS. I chuckled at "true Guisseemi". I'm not a Guisseemi nationalist or anything, my family only immigrated here a couple of centuries ago.



> Finally, just a small note to the OP: the "future" tense forms suggested by Schem which use the تـ prefix (تتروحون, etc.) are specific to the Gesseem region and are not widely known elsewhere.  The more commonly-used prefix is بـ, so بتروحون بيروح بتروح etc., although the form راح has become very widespread in recent years (راح ناكل راح نطلع راح يفوزون etc.).




I actually thought these were used elsewhere in Najd, surprised to know they're not. Is the بـ prefix normally used by the older generation of Riyadh/Diriyah? I always thought it was a Hassawi/Khaleeji import.


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## LUHG

Schem said:


> I actually thought these were used elsewhere in Najd, surprised to know they're not. Is the بـ prefix normally used by the older generation of Riyadh/Diriyah? I always thought it was a Hassawi/Khaleeji import.



I am from Mecca and we do say " بروح, بيروح, بنروح, بتروحون". Widely used I believe, except for 7adour people who normally add the prefix حـ like " حروح, حنروح, حنلعب".


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## Tracer

Wadi Hanifa said:


> When you want to say that Fulaan almost fell on his face, you would say بغى يطيح على وجهه.



That's a very interesting use of بغى plus present tense to indicate* "almost".
*
Could you then say?:  He almost got married = بغى يتـزوج   ?     

If so, how would you say:  He wanted to get married  =   بغى تـزوج   ?


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## إسكندراني

I think we traditionally do this in Egypt too. لما تلاقي اللبن عايز يفور اطفي عليه.


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## WadiH

Schem said:


> True, although I have to admit I haven't thought about it this way. However, no one I know (re-)adds the غ when the verb is expressed in the present tense, it's almost always said أبي not أبغى. Except perhaps for teenage girls wanting to add a bit of "Riyadhi prestige" to their jargon, but those are a special case (thankfully a minority) and don't really adhere to Guisseemi speech anyway.



It's tempting to view this usage as a recent borrowing, but I think we should be cautious about these things.  It's very easy to imagine a person forming a present أبغى from a past بغى independently through the normal rules of Arabic without being influenced by another region's speech.  I also don't think that previous generations were as isolated from each other as people nowadays seem to imagine so the influence (if that's what it is) may be quite old.



> I actually thought these were used elsewhere in Najd, surprised to know they're not. Is the بـ prefix normally used by the older generation of Riyadh/Diriyah? I always thought it was a Hassawi/Khaleeji import.



The first time I ever heard of the "t-" prefix was last year, even though I've been around G9manjis my entire life.  The most common way of forming future verbs is certainly the prefix "b-", including the (tribal) Hejaz.



Tracer said:


> That's a very interesting use of بغى plus present tense to indicate* "almost".
> 
> *Could you then say?: He almost got married = بغى يتـزوج ?
> 
> If so, how would you say: He wanted to get married = بغى تـزوج ?



Both are بغى يتزوج.  You have to understand the meaning from context (it's the same verb used metaphorically, compare جداراً يريد أن ينقض from the Quran).


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## إسكندراني

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The first time I ever heard of the "t-" prefix was last year, even though I've been around G9manjis my entire life.  The most common way of forming future verbs is certainly the prefix "b-", including the (tribal) Hejaz.


Could this تـ be related to the one some Magharebis use?


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## WadiH

إسكندراني said:


> Could this تـ be related to the one some Magharebis use?



No, it's just the first letter of the word تبي/تبون/تبين, etc.


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## Schem

LUHG said:


> I am from Mecca and we do say " بروح, بيروح, بنروح, بتروحون". Widely used I believe, except for 7adour people who normally add the prefix حـ like " حروح, حنروح, حنلعب".




Which one would you say is more common? Or is it a regional/social thing where a city's/people's dialect would use one more than the other?

And I knew Guisseemi prefixes weren't used in Hejaz, I always thought it was the حـ prefix that had the more dominance though.



Wadi Hanifa said:


> The first time I ever heard of the "t-" prefix was last year, even though I've been around G9manjis my entire life. The most common way of forming future verbs is certainly the prefix "b-", including the (tribal) Hejaz.




Those must be the non-true Gusmanjis then.


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## LUHG

Schem said:


> Which one would you say is more common? Or is it a regional/social thing where a city's/people's dialect would use one more than the other?
> 
> And I knew Guisseemi prefixes weren't used in Hejaz, I always thought it was the حـ prefix that had the more dominance though.



Well, I'd say both are commonly used to be fair. However, it is sort of a social thing where people who live in a particular part of the city speak a bit differently from those who live elswhere. I mean the closer you get to Taif, the more you find people who use the بـ prefix. And the closer you get to Jeddah the more you find the حـ prefix used. There are always exceptions, mind you.


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## girlwithafacee

My friends usually say "abee" or "abghee" for "I want". What is the Arabic spelling for these, and is there a difference between them?

Mod note:
This new thread is now merged with the previous one about the same topic. Please don't forget to search for the answer before opening a new thread, so as to avoid unnecessary repetitions.


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## Schem

Not really, أبي is just أبغي (sometimes أبغى) with the ghayin elided. The difference in use is geographical, not semantic.


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## MarcB

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=366824
more information here.


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## girlwithafacee

Oh you tricky people and geographical accents   Thanks Schem  (and Marc)


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## Hemza

Tracer said:


> What I'm sure about though, is that I've heard "abgha"  "bagheet" as an alternate for "to want" although again, precisely where I heard it I can't say....but that's a different subject/thread.



Hello,

I know this thread is old but that might have occured in Morocco (if you ever went there)? Because we often use the past form with the meaning "I want" (along with the present one).


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## princeipeazul

Schem said:


> It's important to note that the verb "to want" is also the standard verb for forming the future tense in Najdi Arabic so the same sentence could mean "I _will _go one of these days". I would say this is the reason the verb Widdi ودّي (first person singular) is the more commonly used "to want" verb. Nevertheless, when used for future reference the verb is usually shortened into a prefix; normally the first letter of the word or the first two in the case أبي. So the same sentences abbreviated for a future tense would be:
> 
> I will go: أبَروح
> You will go: تَتروح
> You will go: تَتروحين (feminine)
> You will go: تَتروحون (plural)
> You will go: تَتُروحِن (feminine plural)
> He will go: يَيروح
> We will go: نَنروح
> They will go: يَيروحون
> They will go: يَيُروحِن (feminine)


Does this apply as well to the Najdi Arabic dialect spoken in Riyadh? I'm in Riyadh and I usually hear راح in here to express future actions like in "مراح نطول" (We are not going to be long)


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## Derakhshan

In Bahraini we use بـ to form the future, which I think etymologically is from يبي , so ابي اروح became بروح , 
تبي تروح became بتروح , etc.

Lately I've noticed راح being used more and more. It's used when trying to sound more neutral in front of other Arabic speakers, or maybe even to sound "formal" somehow. I guess it was learned through media exposure. But no one uses it natively when talking to other Bahrainis casually, or very rarely at least.

The حـ prefix of course comes from راح.

"he wants" is yabbī يبّي in the Bahraini Sunni dialect. That شدّة is important; if you say yabī instead people will assume you're Saudi or another GCC nationality.

In the Bahrani dialect (Shia) many different forms are used: yabbī, yubba, yumba, yabghī, yabgha...


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## Hemza

Wadi Hanifa said:


> When you want to say that Fulaan *almost *fell on his face, you would say بغى يطيح على وجهه.


Exactly like in Morocco and Western Algeria as well I think (I didn't notice this message until now) and it would be said the same way.



Derakhshan said:


> "he wants" is yabbī يبّي in the Bahraini Sunni dialect. That شدّة is important; if you say yabī instead people will assume you're Saudi or another GCC nationality.


This is similar to Libya/Western Egypt (yibbi)


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## Derakhshan

Yes, we also use بغى to express "almost".


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## princeipeazul

Derakhshan said:


> In Bahraini we use بـ to form the future, which I think etymologically is from يبي , so ابي اروح became بروح ,
> تبي تروح became بتروح , etc.


Wow, I never thought of that. Yes, I believe as well that the prefix ب may have come from يبي. What's more, "بروح" is easier to say than "ابي اروح".


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## Schem

princeipeazul said:


> Does this apply as well to the Najdi Arabic dialect spoken in Riyadh? I'm in Riyadh and I usually hear راح in here to express future actions like in "مراح نطول" (We are not going to be long)



As pointed out in this thread, Riyadhi Arabic employs only بـ as a future prefix. The conjugation you quoted is typical of Gassim and Hail and isn't used in Riyadh.

I believe راح is gaining currency everywhere and may have already become mainstream in Riyadh given that city's dynamic nature.


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## Hemza

I heard the verb used in Egypt in a bedouin song of الصعيد, the singer says أبغاك تكوني ليا. I would have expected from the singer to say نبّيك تكوني ليا, it's the first time I heard it said this way.


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## Hemza

Derakhshan said:


> In Bahraini we use بـ to form the future, which I think etymologically is from يبي , so ابي اروح became بروح ,
> تبي تروح became بتروح , etc.


I discovered this also happens in Morocco though only in the city of Marrakesh and its surroundings where the غ of بغى is elided which make them the only Moroccans who say بى/يبي (with no باء مشدّدة  unlike in Libya) and contrary to most Moroccans, they use the verb to form the future but in a slightly different way than Gulf/Najdi do. So "he will go" is said بايمشي, "he will do" is بايدير and "I'll go" is بانمشي etc.


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