# תבוא לגור בארופה



## fbartoli

I would just know if:

בתבוא לגור בארופה

means:

Come living in Europe!

Many thanls


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## M-Pink

בתבוא לגור בארופה

as you wrote in the titleתבוא without ב at the beginning: is come (addressing a male)
לגור :to live
בארופה :in Europe

so the entire sentence is :

come to live in Europe


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## Tamar

I would say: [quote]בתבוא לגור באירופה[/quote]

I consider תבוא לגור באירופה as "you will come..."

The yod is there because it sometimes (don't know the rules I'm afraid) marks an [e] sound, not only _._


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## M-Pink

oh yes!
תבוא is you will come
and בוא is come

thank you Tamar


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## origumi

M-Pink said:


> oh yes!
> תבוא is you will come
> and בוא is come


In modern Hebrew the future form tends to take the place of hortative and even imperative. Therefore תבוא may easily express an invitation.


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## hadronic

Except, I think, for the very short, handy imperative of sick roots, that still gain the favor of the speakers : lekh (go!), kach (take!), shev (sit!), ten (give!), bo (come!), etc...


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## origumi

hadronic said:


> Except, I think, for the very short, handy imperative of sick roots, that still gain the favor of the speakers : lekh (go!), kach (take!), shev (sit!), ten (give!), bo (come!), etc...


What makes you think so?


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## hadronic

Observation.

But of course I am no native speaker of Hebrew, so correct me if I'm wrong (which you could have done already rather than asking, no offense).


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## amikama

origumi said:


> In modern Hebrew the future form tends to take the place of hortative and even imperative. Therefore תבוא may easily express an invitation.


This is true for informal Hebrew. In formal Hebrew the tendency is to keep the "old" imperative forms.



hadronic said:


> Except, I think, for the very short, handy imperative of sick roots, that still gain the favor of the speakers : lekh (go!), kach (take!), shev (sit!), ten (give!), bo (come!), etc...


This is also my observation.


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## origumi

amikama said:


> This is also my observation.


Try googling some of:

תבוא כל יום
תיקח את זה בקלות
תצא בחוץ
תלך מפה
תשב בשקט

I am not saying that the observation above is wrong - I am just curious how you can reach such conclusion in a matter which in far of obvious and may require statistical analysis in various strata of the spoken language.


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## MaNitma

I tend to agree with hardonic and amikama on this matter.

I am pretty judgmental when it comes to language, so I might not be the perfect example, but I personally hate the rather new colloquial abuse of the future (תבוא, תלך, תקנה, תעשה) for the imperative (which SHOULD be בוא, לך, קנה, עשה).

Still sounds very off to me.


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## M-Pink

origumi said:


> In modern Hebrew the future form tends to take the place of hortative and even imperative. Therefore תבוא may easily express an invitation.


 
I agree with you

actually I learned Hebrew from friends, ordinary people, and media
I thought that תקחי, תבואי ...are imperatives 
then I learned the correct forms at school. but I still hear people using the future form as imperative.     

these problems exist in every language.. 
But I think that the spoken Hebrew is not really different from the standard.. 
In Arabic for example some colloquial languages are quite different from the Standard language


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## hadronic

I think that this future for imperative is not that "off", that "badly" used.
Even in other languages you can observe such a use :
Ex: (fr) Tu me donneras.... ("you'll give me ..." = "don't forget to give me..." = "give me as soon as you can")

And moreover, I think that this use went to parallel the negative imperative.
אל תדבר==>תדבר don't speak ! ==> speak !
it makes the language more consistent.

And also, let us not forget that hebrew's future corresponds to Arabic 
- imperfect : aktub*u *(I write), 
- subjonctive : aktub*a *( [it's necessary that ] I be writing),
- jussive : aktub (various uses, from conditional, hypothetical to imperative)

So Hebrew's so-called future is not only about future, it applies to a very wide range of meanings.


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## origumi

hadronic said:


> I think that this future for imperative is not that "off", that "badly" used.
> ...
> And moreover, I think that this use went to parallel the negative imperative.
> אל תדבר==>תדבר don't speak ! ==> speak !
> it makes the language more consistent.


I agree that future and imperative may carry similar meaning, demonstrated in the negative imperative (do not do) in which the future and not imperative form is used. Even in the Bible there are place where future form is used and it is practlically impossible to say for sure whether this future is real future or imperative.

It's like the Mafia movies: when a big shot mafioso says "you will do it" - you better do.



> And also, let us not forget that hebrew's future corresponds to Arabic


In my opinion this is the situation in which comparison to other Semitic languages is not necessarly productive. The verb systems follow the same princliples yet they are different in usage and meaning. See for example the different binyanim, lack of progressive and perfect tenses (_I did_ vs. _I was doing_ vs. _I have done_) in one language but not the other, disappearence in Hebrew of jussive / hortative / other similar forms (expressed in some IE languages via the conjunctive / subjunctive, maybe by the nearly-extinct lengthened future and imperative in Hebrew).


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## origumi

In a telegram addressed to prime minister Netanyahu prior to his recent Sunday speech, an organization of 350 rabbis asked for the following:
 
*תאמר* את האמת, את כל האמת ורק את האמת
*תמחק* נא מאוצר המילים את המשפט (משהו פוליטי)
*תתחיל* דף חדש למען (משהו פוליטי)

Not even once they used imperative. Other substitutions were:
 
*מוכרחים ל* (משהו פוליטי)
*אין מה ל*התפעל מ (משהו פוליטי)


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## Aoyama

> Therefore תבוא may easily express an invitation


I would think/say simply that  תבוא is an imperative meaning "come".
*תבוא לגור בארופה* : come (to) live in Europe !


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