# Mobbing



## maddalenag21

How can I explain I am "subendo" il mobbing?

My bosses were mobbing me? It is correct?

According with my bosses some colleagues are mobbing me because they are afraid about their situation. They are worried to have suffer the same treatments. I am the black sheep.

This new management brougth us in the past, like 30 year ago. Questo nuovo managment portato indietro di 30 anni. (Is it correct?)

Hanno scatenato la cosiddetta "guerra fra poveri". l'aria è ormai irrespirabile non ci si può fidare piu di nessuno. How can I translate?

In a normal "ambiente di lavoro" these behaviours should be baneshed. When I worked in an international situation I never felt so bad. Unfortunately I can't say the same since I'm working in an completely italian ambient. It is sad to admit this, because I'm italian, milanese.


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## Auno

Some people would understand what you meant by 'mobbing' in English, but not many.

Take it easy and I'll be back in a bit.


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## LGGirl

maddalenag21 said:


> How can I explain I am "subendo" il mobbing?
> 
> My bosses were mobbing me? It is correct?
> 
> According with my bosses some colleagues are mobbing me because they are afraid about their situation. They are worried to have suffer the same treatments. I am the black sheep.
> 
> This new management brougth us in the past, like 30 year ago. Questo nuovo managment portato indietro di 30 anni. (Is it correct?)
> 
> Hanno scatenato la cosiddetta "guerra fra poveri". l'aria è ormai irrespirabile non ci si può fidare piu di nessuno. How can I translate?
> 
> In a normal "ambiente di lavoro" these behaviours should be baneshed. When I worked in an international situation I never felt so bad. Unfortunately I can't say the same since I'm working in an completely italian ambient. It is sad to admit this, because I'm italian, milanese.


 
Mobbing, while I understand what you mean, is not what I would use.  I think you want to say that "the new management is picking on you, singling you out and criticizing you.  Your co-workers feel insecure about their positions in the company and fear they may suffer the same treatment.  The current management approach is reminiscent of that of 30 years ago and has created a work environment in which one can barely breathe.  You feel you can't trust anyone, always looking over your shoulder.

This is my stab at it.  Good luck.


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## Nicosito

"harrassment at work" according to Iate.


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## Elcaracol

Dunque: "to be harassed", si usa il passivo.


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## Nicosito

Certo, si usa abbastanza il passivo per questo:va appunto con l'idea di vittima passiva.

Nico.


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## tsoapm

WR:





> Sistematica persecuzione esercitata sul posto di lavoro da colleghi o superiori nei confronti di un individuo





Nicosito said:


> "harrassment at work" according to Iate.


I was thinking ‘victimization’, but then in my text there was a reference to reporting someone for it, and I ended up going with ‘harassment’, which is more generic (strong association with sexual harassment), but the UK has the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and no ‘Protection from Victimization Act’.


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## london calling

What's wrong with 'mobbing'? Workplace mobbing = bullying at work.


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## tsoapm

It’s not a term I’d come across before I came to Italy, myself. From Wikipedia:





> Shallcross, Ramsay and Barker consider workplace "mobbing" to be a generally unfamiliar term in some English speaking countries. Some researchers claim that mobbing is simply another name for bullying.





Auno said:


> Some people would understand what you meant by 'mobbing' in English, but not many.


That _was_ 2007 of course. On the other hand, this sense doesn’t seem to have made the online OED yet, and they’re not bad at staying current.

It’s also not the term I’d have come up with if it were up to me: I associate mobs with spontaneity and chaos, in complete contrast to the "sistematica persecuzione" of the WR dictionary definition. I’m not denying that the term exists though; I expect it’s more prevalent in more specialist texts like the article you found on the psychology website.


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## anglomania1

Hi there,
Wiki has a page in English on "mobbing" and for the workplace uses "workplace bullying".
"Mobbing" obviously exists, but I'm not sure how much it's used or how many native speakers would really understand it.
I discussed this issue with my mum once (she used to work in HR), and she didn't understand what I meant when I said "mobbing"!
When I explained it to her, she said it sounded a bit like "constructive dismissal" - but of course that is only relevant if the person concerned is treated so badly that they feel they have to leave.
Just a thought


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## ohbice

Direi che in generale con "mobbing" in Italia si intende un insieme di azioni (pressioni, intimidazioni, discriminazioni eccetera), coordinate tra loro e di durata non breve, finalizzate alle _constructive dismissal _di cui parla anglo. 
Dal punto di vista legale, in Italia non esiste un "reato di mobbing", quindi è difficile sanzionare comportamenti di questo tipo.


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## sorry66

I'd say the correct term is 'workplace bullying' too.

I'd never heard of 'mobbing' in this context but LC's link says this:
_Mobbing is “bullying on steroids,” a horrifying new trend whereby a bully enlists co-workers to collude in a relentless campaign of psychological terror against a hapless target._
December 2013
Another book:
_Mobbing, a form of abuse in which individuals, groups, or organizations target a single person for ridicule, humiliation, and removal from the workplace, can lead to deteriorating physical and mental health, violence, and even suicide._
Overcoming Mobbing - January 2014

All this just sounds like 'bullying'.


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## anglomania1

sorry66 said:


> I'd say the correct term is 'workplace bullying' too.
> 
> I'd never heard of 'mobbing' That's what worries me - it obviously  exists but none of us have heard of it!! We just found examples of the word on the Internet
> 
> 
> All this just sounds like 'bullying' Yes, but I think the difference is that ONE person can bully, but MOBBING adds the concept of a "group".


Hi Sorry66


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## joanvillafane

One more AE speaker weighing in - I learned the word "mobbing"  (to mean "bullying") here in the Italian-English forum.  It's not a word I've ever heard or used here in the States.


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## anglomania1

joanvillafane said:


> One more AE speaker weighing in - I learned the word "mobbing"  (to mean "bullying") here in the Italian-English forum.  It's not a word I've ever heard or used here in the States.


Interesting! I learned the word in Italy!


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## joanvillafane

Maybe it's time to start one of those glossaries called "English words that Italians use that English speakers do not understand."   I have a list of them.


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## anglomania1

joanvillafane said:


> Maybe it's time to start one of those glossaries called "English words that Italians use that English speakers do not understand."   I have a list of them.


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## sorry66

Now that I come to think of it, I have heard of 'le mobbing'.
Google has just confirmed that the French use it too.
I even found 'le cyber-mobbing'!

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/translate/french-english/mobbing
Oxford only has the French translation of _mobbing_.

I don't know whether this woman is behind the coinage of the term:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/mobbing-9780195380019?cc=fr&lang=en&#

She later wrote another book:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/overcoming-mobbing-9780199929559?cc=fr&lang=en&#

It would be just like the French to latch onto an obscure term  - and then pass it on to the Italians!


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## london calling

tsoapm said:


> On the other hand, this sense doesn’t seem to have made the online OED yet, and they’re not bad at staying current.


Interestingly enough, the Oxford Dictionaries talk about 'mobbing' (bullying) by birds (the feathered variety, of course). I quote:

"(Of a group of birds or mammals) surround and attack (a predator or other source of threat) in order to drive it off:
_a cuckoo flew over, to be mobbed at once by two reed warblers _(as noun* mobbing*) _small mammals may indulge in mobbing to rid themselves of a fearedkiller_
ALTRE FRASI ESEMPLIFICATIVE

Swifts will often mob aerial predators such as raptors if they approach a flock.
Adult terns come over to mob the predator while the chicks take cover in the high grass or in their nests.
They will also mob predators in flight, gathering into tight flocks and dive-bombing a hawk or other predator."


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## Benzene

maddalenag21 said:


> How can I explain I am "subendo" il mobbing?
> 
> My bosses were mobbing me? It is correct?
> 
> _*Ciao maddalena21!*
> 
> Un'altra opzione: "my boss is always ganging up on me".
> 
> Bye,
> 
> *Benzene*_


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## london calling

I've just found this, I quote:

_Mobbing isn’t the same thing as bullying. It’s bullying run amuck, sweeping good people into an atmosphere of fear, rumors and lies, where group psychology takes hold.  Bullying is an interpersonal conflict between two people, or one aggressive individual against a few.  But mobbing is the aggression of a group of people against an individual.  It’s not a fair fight.  It’s not even a fight.  It’s an execution. — Dr. Janice Harper, author MOBBED! A SURVIVAL GUIDE TO ADULT BULLYING & MOBBING_

Benzie: _Your boss bullied you. _More than two people would _mob you._


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## tsoapm

london calling said:


> (Of a group of birds or mammals) surround and attack (a predator or other source of threat)


I suppose we _are_ technically mammals... but it’s not really bullying if they’re a predator/threat, is it? That’s legitimate defence.


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## sorry66

As I was trying to point out in post# 19, this seems to a relatively new word for group bullying (being bullied by a group). When was it first used this way and by whom? Maybe the woman I quoted in that post.


			
				 post: 15589491 said:
			
		

> Bullying is an interpersonal conflict between two people, or one aggressive individual against a few.


I don't agree with Dr. Harper, you can be bullied by several people.

I think 'my bosses are ganging up on me' (Benzene's translation for the OP) makes more sense than saying 'my bosses are mobbing me'. Four other anglophones in this thread wouldn't use it either.


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## london calling

Dr. Harper is an anglophone too.


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## chipulukusu

I was surprised to know that the world _mobbing _is hardly understood by English speakers.
But, on the other hand, I always found inappropriate the use of this world to define the behaviour we are talking about.
While a _mob _is a group of people prevaricating other individuals in an unlawfully way, _mobbing _is putting in practice by employers or managers to push an employee to resign. All the related practices are strictly within the boundaries of the law. It is the intent that is unlawful but also hard to prove.
_Mobbing _is extremely more common in Italy than in any Anglo-Saxon country, because the number of people and situations for whom and for which a protection against laying off is enforced is far greater.
I would hardly define a business owner or a bunch of smartly dressed managers as _mob. _


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## london calling

Mobbing: search results from Google UK. Have a good read, people.


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## tsoapm

What I see on the first page of Google is:

6 × Academic/specialist resources
1 × Wikipedia article, which talks about the term being unfamiliar
1 × “*bully*online” website with ‘mobbing’ in scare quotes
1 × Urban Dictionary (yawn)
1 × Article on the behaviour of birds

So... I think I’ve already seen enough and just confirm what I said before.


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## sorry66

@LC
There's no doubt that the word is used by experts in their field (see the links in my posts) but I don't think it has really filtered down to the general public. It probably will in due time.

When you think of a mob, you think of violent crowd behaviour.
Of course, it depends on the context.
There are two ways of using it as a verb (both involve people crowding around somebody):
'The stranger was mobbed by the angry villagers and left unconscious' (harm intended and harm done)
or
'The film star was mobbed by his fans' (no harm intended and maybe some harm done (film star gets jostled about a bit)


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## Paulfromitaly

You may want to have a look at this

mobbing - workplace terminology


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## ohbice

Interessante, Paul. In quel thread il significato di mobbing è ancora diverso.


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## Paulfromitaly

ohbice said:


> Interessante, Paul. In quel thread il significato di mobbing è ancora diverso.


A me sembra lo stesso..
Potrebbe apparire diverso solo nel post di un non madrelignua inglese che evidentemente non è riuscito a spiegare chiaramente il concetto.


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## ohbice

Hai ragione, alcuni interventi sono simili a quelli svolti qui. Altri no, però: mi riferisco per esempio a "Mobbing at work it is when weak people join to eliminate stronger one. I looking for an word in Portuguese". Questo mi sembra piuttosto il concetto di "cordata", per cui in un'azienda persone in carriera cercano di costruire relazioni per scalzare, o comunque per non farsi sopravanzare, da persone più forti.
Prima non mi sono spiegato bene


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## chipulukusu

ohbice said:


> Hai ragione, alcuni interventi sono simili a quelli svolti qui. Altri no, però: mi riferisco per esempio a "Mobbing at work it is when weak people join to eliminate stronger one. I looking for an word in Portuguese". Questo mi sembra piuttosto il concetto di "cordata", per cui in un'azienda persone in carriera cercano di costruire relazioni per scalzare, o comunque per non farsi sopravanzare, da persone più forti.
> Prima non mi sono spiegato bene


Hai ragione ohbice, si parla di due concetti completamente diversi. Il _mobbing _nel significato originale riguarda un gruppo di individui deboli presi singolarmente che si coalizzano per difendersi da un'avversario più forte. 
Nel _mobbing _versione Sud Europa invece, anche quando questo coinvolge i colleghi, questi non si muovono per difendersi da un avversario più forte ma per compiacere un superiore più forte che è il vero beneficiario dell'attività. 
E' difficile conciliare questi due fenomeni completamente diversi e questo credo spieghi le difficoltà di comprensione. 
Un fenomeno più simile a quello del _mobbing _come lo intendiamo in Italia è _l'ostracismo_. In entrambi i casi si tratta dell'attacco di una parte in posizione di potere verso una parte più debole che però ha una generica protezione legale a sua difesa.


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## sorry66

mob - (noun) - a large crowd of people, especially one that is disorderly and intent on causing trouble or violence.


chipulukusu said:


> Il _mobbing _nel significato originale riguarda un gruppo di individui deboli presi singolarmente che si coalizzano per difendersi da un'avversario più forte.


I disagree. This only applies to birds etc. - not an everyday use. The primary meaning is above and we can suppose the verb developed later.
A mob may attack for many reasons: they see the person/or smaller group of people as a threat or they attack out of hatred, thirst for vengeance etc.


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## chipulukusu

l agree to your disagreeing Sorry! When I said the "original" meaning of mobbing I meant the meaning implied by Ohbice's quote ("_Mobbing at work it is when weak people join to eliminate stronger one_"), not the general meaning of _mobbing_. I understand that the main meaning refers to the behaviour of a violent multitude of people.


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## sorry66

@chipulukusu  It's great when people agree!


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## chipulukusu

sorry66 said:


> @chipulukusu  It's great when people agree!


Yes it is!


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