# Persian: counterparts for shomaal/jonub



## Abbassupreme

By the looks of it, it seems that Persian has picked up the words for "north" (shomaal) and "south" (jonub) from Arabic.  I was wondering if anyone knows what the counterparts for these words are in Persian.  I've heard that "nimruz" (lit. "midday") is another way of saying "south", but every Persian-speaker I've told that to finds that hard to believe.  Some help, please?


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## panjabigator

Does Persian also you mashriq and maghrib?


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## Abbassupreme

The words غرب (gharb) and شرق (sharq) are used to mean "west" and "east", respectively, a lot of the time.

مغرب and مشرق ("maghreb" and "mashreq", respectively) are also for "west"  and "east", respectively, but they aren't really used as much in everyday Persian.  "Mashreq" is apparently usually used to mean "sunrise" because I think that, etymologically speaking, "mashreq" means "pertaining to the east" while "maghreb", in Persian, is used both to mean "sunset" (the word "ghorub" is usually used instead) and "the West/western".

Ugh . . . it's all very confusing, because I don't think Persian makes the same distinctions that Arabic makes with all of these words.  Many times different Arabic words that mean different things in Arabic are used to mean the same thing in Persian.

Technically, the Persian words for "east" and "west" are خاور (xaavar) and باختر (baaxtar), respectively.  That's how we got our version of the name "the Middle East" (Xaavar Miyaane/Miyune)

Neither, of course, are ever used to mean "north" and "south", though.


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## Alijsh

Abbassupreme said:


> "Mashreq" is apparently usually used to mean "sunrise" because I think that, etymologically speaking, "mashreq" means "pertaining to the east" while "maghreb", in Persian, is used both to mean "sunset" (the word "ghorub" is usually used instead) and "the West/western".


sunrise is tolu' and sunset is qorub. we also use qorub for "evening". For "the West/western" we use qarb, qarbi. "pertaining to the east" is sharqi.


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## Abbassupreme

Alijsh said:


> sunrise is tolu' and sunset is qorub. we also use qorub for "evening". For "the West/western" we use qarb, qarbi. "pertaining to the east" is sharqi.


How often are the words "mashreq" and "maghreb" used in Iran?


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## Alijsh

very few. maqreb is used in azân-e maqreb (azân: call for prayer).

It is wrong to use bâxtar for "west". It actually means "north". Such mistakes are called "famous mistakes" in Persian. They are mistakes that ordinary people usually don't about them. They think what they say is right. Here I write you the correct words for directions:


شمال: اَباختَر، اَپاختَر، باختر

 جنوب: نیمروز

 شرق، مشرق: خاور، خوُرآسان (خُراسان)

 غرب، مغرب: خوُروَر، خوُربَرآن (خوُربَران​
xwor (خوُر)   means "sun" and xworâsân literally means: the place where sun comes up


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## Abbassupreme

Why is it that this dictionary:http://www.ariadic.com/ says that "bâxtar" means west?

And how IS the word for "west" pronounced?  "Xorur"?

Thanks!


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## Alijsh

As I said, it's a so-called "famous mistake". Less people know they are actually wrong. They are now accepted as are. Yes, "bâxtar" is now used to mean "west" but it's actually wrong.

 I had put pronunciation marks so that you can guess its pronunciation  That word is pronounced xorvar. var means "side, direction".

I think your Persian is good enough to use Persian dictionaries. So look up words in Dehkhodâ dictionary which contains 3,000,000 entries (however, I'm not sure if this online version is complete or not). If you look up those words, it will tell you its meaning and will give you more information.


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## shannenms

I have also heard that shomal is originally Persian, made of shem-(which was changed to shom-) and -al: shem- means a cold place, and -al is suffix of place. This relates the direction to a cold place.


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## Alijsh

is shem related to zem? zem/zam means "cold" and is found in zemestân.


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## Abbassupreme

Oh, yeah!  I heard something like that!  I think shem is the older form of zem and is the precursor (or at least A precursor) to the word sarmâ.


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## shannenms

Alijsh said:


> very few. maqreb is used in azân-e maqreb (azân: call for prayer).
> 
> It is wrong to use bâxtar for "west". It actually means "north". Such mistakes are called "famous mistakes" in Persian. They are mistakes that ordinary people usually don't about them. They think what they say is right. Here I write you the correct words for directions:
> 
> 
> شمال: اَباختَر، اَپاختَر، باختر​
> جنوب: نیمروز​
> شرق، مشرق: خاور، خوُرآسان (خُراسان)​
> غرب، مغرب: خوُروَر، خوُربَرآن (خوُربَران​
> 
> xwor (خوُر) means "sun" and xworâsân literally means: the place where sun comes up


 

فقط برای اظهار فضل باید بگم:
شرق: هوشستر----اوشستر-----خوراسان("و" تلفظ می شود)
جنوب: رپسون
شمال:اپاختر


Just a suggestion


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## Abbassupreme

Eh . . . . this is very embarrassing for me to say this, but . . . Shannenms, could you please translate/transliterate what you wrote?  I guess I still have a while to go with my Persian literacy, because I have no clue how to pronounce the words that you wrote as equivalents for the cardinal directions.

What does اظهار mean, by the way?

Xeyli sharmandam, vali be har hâl az joftetun xeyli sepâsgozâram.


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## Alijsh

Abbassupreme said:


> Eh . . . . this is very embarrassing for me to say this, but . . . Shannenms, could you please translate/transliterate what you wrote?  I guess I still have a while to go with my Persian literacy, because I have no clue how to pronounce the words that you wrote as equivalents for the cardinal directions.


It has nothing to do with your Persian literacy but the nature of the Persian script. So don't be embarrassed.

هوشستر----اوشستر
should be: hušastar, ušastar

رپسون
should be:Shannenms has used p but I think it's y and therefore: risun or rison

اپاختر
I had mentioned it: apâxtar

We must wait for Shannenms to confirm them.


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## shannenms

Abbassupreme said:


> Eh . . . . this is very embarrassing for me to say this, but . . . Shannenms, could you please translate/transliterate what you wrote? I guess I still have a while to go with my Persian literacy, because I have no clue how to pronounce the words that you wrote as equivalents for the cardinal directions.
> 
> What does اظهار mean, by the way?
> 
> Xeyli sharmandam, vali be har hâl az joftetun xeyli sepâsgozâram.


 
Don't worry about your Persian, that's good!!
Ezhare fazl is an idiom, and I don't know how to translate it for you, I can only explain that.



Alijsh said:


> رپسون
> should be:Shannenms has used p but I think it's y and therefore: risun or rison


 
No, that's with "p", "rapiswin" or "rapitwin".


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## Abbassupreme

Thank you for all your replies!  Az joftetun xeylI sepâsgozâram.


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## shannenms

Abbassupreme said:


> Thank you for all your replies! Az joftetun xeylI sepâsgozâram.


 
Khahesh mikonam, Abbass joon  Ma karemoon komak kardane, mele baziha nistim ke faghat ye beyt az hafezo baladand!!!!!!!!

If you still want more information come back immediately!!!!!!!!


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