# Attitudes towards those who don't drink?



## mkaminski

I'm going to be traveling in France for 6 weeks next year, and I am wondering what the attitudes are towards those who don't drink. I'll be in a lot of social situations and I wonder what people would think of me. I know that alcohol is a large part of European culture. I don't want to come off as the 'prude American.' I know here my friends (many of whom are in their early 20's) chastise me every now and then when we hang out. Sure I would drink some wine, but I don't see need for anything else. I don't think differently of those who drink, I just know what's best for me. 


Any insight? (I'm 18 btw)


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## Milhaud

I'm really surprised of this question. I'm from Spain, and here, every holliday-time a lot of American people came here... And I can tell you that sometimes is shameful to see them so drunk.

All you have to do is what you really want. Maybe in Europe is easiear to drink alcohol but it is not necessary to do it. Many people spend all night long without drinking alcohol, and it's not a problem.

And anyway, drinking too much is not good at all


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## Nefthys

Hi mkaminski!

You can be totally sure that there is nothing to worry about. I think you have a wrong idea about what alcohol truly means in Europe, or at least in the Mediterranean countries I know well (France, Portugal, Spain, Italy). All these places are known for having or be highly influenced by a Mediterranean diet, which has been found to be one of the healthiests in the world. This diet is caracterized for including a good variety of fruits, vegetables, fish... Wine (which is the only alcohol typical of these countries) is just a part of this kind of diet, which is also a way of life, more social and less stressing. It is typical that many people drink wine for lunch or "meet for a wine" with some friends and you would be surprised of how healthy it is to drink a glass of wine per day, specially for your heart!

Just to finish, in these countries there is also many people who does not drink, and of course everybody is respectful with their decision, as they will be with yours. At any case I would recommend you to do not miss the oportunity to try at least this little piece of the mediterranean culture, it really worths.


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## badgrammar

Don't worry, I have many friends here, French and otherwise, who never drink.  It's not a problem at all! I would just warn you not to order coffee _with_ your meal if you're trying to make a good impression.  You will not be any bit more forign for not drinking, and Europe is not "about" drinking per se - it's just that there are some great wines, and you can have a glass when you feel like it...


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## mkaminski

I wasn't under the impression that Europeans as a whole drank to become inebriated. However I'm more concerned about my age group... I want to make friends but at the same time I don't want to give up my values. I see pictures of my french friend's friends (a little redundant) and in most of the pictures there's always an abundance of alcohol. I know that some people here automatically assume that someone is prude and self-righteous if s/he doesn't drink... I'm just afraid of coming off as such.

Oh and thanks for the insight guys.


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## badgrammar

funny, but mostly it's us "old folks" who drink - most of the young people I know are tea-totalers...


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## Lemminkäinen

People here haven't changed their drinking habits much since the viking ages - it's still all about getting drunk as soon as possible. Of course there are people who know how to drink moderately, but the attitude described goes for a lot of people. 

I remember reading an op-ed from a correspondent in Rome about how peaceful the nights were there compared to downtown Oslo, where there is a lot of violence in the nighttime during _helgefylla_ - 'the weekend drunkenness'. 
He also wrote about how different the Mediterranean culture of enjoying some wine was to the Scandinavian attitude to drinking (of course there are people, perhaps especially youths, who'll get wasted if they get a chance, but we're talking in general here).  

Anyway, I'd be interested in some of our Russian forer@s opinions about the situation in Russia, and how the attitude to non-drinkers is there. I believe alcohol has an important role there, and as I'll be going there in a year's time, it'd be interesting to hear from some natives.


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## Lada

Lemminkäinen said:


> Anyway, I'd be interested in some of our Russian *forer@s* opinions about the situation in Russia, and how the attitude to non-drinkers is there. I believe alcohol has an important role there, and as I'll be going there in a year's time, it'd be interesting to hear from some natives.


what is "forer@s"?

Alcohol has the same role in Russia as in other countries not more or less important (why do you think that it s important?).

People who don't drink at all considered to be ill or ex-alcoholics who have been cured and that's why they can't drink anymore because otherwise they will become alholics again. 

Generally if you don't want to drink with Russian people it means that you don't respect them and they will be offened and you won't become a real freind, but it's not a rule for everyone, possibly it is more widespead in country side, but less in big cities. If you are a man, probably you won't fit in the company, but if you are a girl, it's totally OK.


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## avalon2004

I have visited people in France several times and didn't drink- no one was in the slight bit offended nor did anyone even ask why I chose not to (although to be fair I have only been 18 for two months so legally I don't know where I stood in France!)

If we're talking about the worse drinkers, the award would undoubtedly go to my fellow Britons. The award of shame, that is. In fact I often feel  embarrassed to say (or should that be "admit") I'm British when I'm abroad because of the imagery it will surely conjure up (hundreds of drunken louts with no respect for anyone or anything). 

So, I can't imagine anyone in France (nor most other countries in Europe) will mind at all if you don't drink alcohol, though the reaction would probably be considerably different here in England!


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## emma42

I agree with avalon.  I also think it is great that you are wanting to stick by your standards.  I am sure that if the people you want to make friends with are worth making friends with, they will not pressurise you to drink lots of alcohol, nor make fun of you.  I think it would be a little harder in England, as the drinking culture here is really unhealthy, but even then, decent people will  respect your views - it just might take a bit longer!


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## claudine2006

I've been to several European countries and I can assure you that France is not one of those where people drinks a lot (like Spain, Britain or Sweden, for example). 
Anyway there is nothing wrong if you don't drink. 
It can be a little boring if everybody around you is drunk, but it's healthy.


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## Lemminkäinen

Lada said:


> what is "forer@s"?



It's just a term used about people who post on this forum 



> Alcohol has_ the same role in Russia as in other countries not more or less important_ (why do you think that it s important?).


Emphasis mine.



> Generally if you don't want to drink with Russian people it means that _you don't respect them_ and they will be offened and _you won't become a real freind_, but it's not a rule for everyone, possibly it is more widespead in country side, but less in big cities. If you are a man, probably _you won't fit in the company_, but if you are a girl, it's totally OK.



But this doesn't add up. First you say that alcohol has the same role in Russia as in other countries, and then you say that unless you're an ex-alcoholic, not drinking will keep you out of the company of others. 

As has been mentioned above, it's not considered rude or disrespectful in a lot of countries to not drink, so obviously the role of alcohol in Russia is a bit different than in other countries (I hesitate to draw any hasty conclusions based on your one post, but from what I've read in my Russian text book (about going on visit in Russia), heard from my teacher and read in the news papers, I think it's pretty safe to say so).

Just to make it clear, I don't think all Russians are raving alcoholics  I'm sure it's possible to find some people who can tolerate non-drinking in such a large country, and that there exists several gray zones; but again, we're speaking of the general attitude.


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## invictaspirit

Milhaud said:


> I'm really surprised of this question. I'm from Spain, and here, every holliday-time a lot of American people came here... And I can tell you that sometimes is shameful to see them so drunk.
> 
> All you have to do is what you really want. Maybe in Europe is easiear to drink alcohol but it is not necessary to do it. Many people spend all night long without drinking alcohol, and it's not a problem.
> 
> And anyway, drinking too much is not good at all


 
The _botellon_??? _Calimocho?????_  

I have seen orgiastic, almost epic drunkeness in Madrid and Valencia. And it wasn't Americans.  

I used to live in Quevedo and the nearby quarter of Malasaña was full every weekend of thousands of 16-24 year olds vomiting, fighting each other and the police and so on.

*To the original question:*

Despite my comment above, which is not really typical of the Spanish, though some of them certainly DO get very drunk sometimes, the further north in Europe you go, the more people drink socially. By the time you get to Iceland and one or two of the Nordic countries you are dealing with drinking that would even make a Brit blush. Ireland, the UK, Poland, most of Scandinavia, Russia...all have fairly alcohol-heavy social scenes.

Brits regard people who don't drink as interesting eccentrics, but I'd be very surprised if it was a _problem_ for anyone. You certainly would not encounter any major problems in France.


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## claudine2006

invictaspirit said:


> The _botellon_??? _Calimocho?????_
> 
> I have seen orgiastic, almost epic drunkeness in Madrid and Valencia. And it wasn't Americans.
> 
> I used to live in Quevedo and the nearby quarter of Malasaña was full every weekend of thousands of 16-24 year olds vomiting, fighting each other and the police and so on.


I agree with you, in Spain drunkeness among young people (and not only) is a big social problem. 
But foreign people who travel to Spain get used very quickly to Spanish life.


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## ert

mkaminski said:


> I'm going to be traveling in France for 6 weeks next year, and I am wondering what the attitudes are towards those who don't drink. I'll be in a lot of social situations and I wonder what people would think of me. I know that alcohol is a large part of European culture. I don't want to come off as the 'prude American.' I know here my friends (many of whom are in their early 20's) chastise me every now and then when we hang out. Sure I would drink some wine, but I don't see need for anything else. I don't think differently of those who drink, I just know what's best for me.


If you don't drink because you're religious (Christian), then I think there's more chance of being seen as a "bible-bashing" American than as a prude or anything like that. I'm only talking about in the UK.


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## invictaspirit

claudine2006 said:


> I agree with you, in Spain drunkeness among young people (and not only) is a big social problem.
> But foreign people who travel to Spain get used very quickly to Spanish life.


 
It amuses me because when discussing binge-drinking among the young, the British media very often bring up the example of Spain (as a model of how people *don't* drink heavily).    While of course it is true that Britain has a serious problem with excessive social drinking among the young, and the problems that result, it is hilarious to cite Spain as a model society for alcohol matters.

Your own Italy would be a far better example.  Italians really *don't* get drunk.  

I drink moderately (for a Brit  ).  But even I was shocked at the _botellon*_ parties.  While in the UK you probably see more random drunken bad behaviour, and while I am certainly not denying the problem here, the Spanish_ botellon_ street parties, the vast SIZE of them, and above all, the disgusting coke and cheap red wine mixture they call _calimocho, _were absolutely NOT the polite, elegant Latin attitude to drinking Brits are often fobbed off with by their media.

I will not forget seeing on my first night in Madrid, a Spanish girl staggering around and falling over, her white jeans drenched in her own puke.

*To the unititiated, the botellon is a vast, informal, street party which happens in certain neighbourhoods of most Spanish cities every weekend.  Bonfires are built, music is played and immense quantities of drink are consumed.  It is quite common for fights to break out among the revellers or with the police and for ambulance crews to be scooping blind drunk youngsters off the streets.


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## claudine2006

invictaspirit said:


> It amuses me because when discussing binge-drinking among the young, the British media very often bring up the example of Spain (as a model of how people *don't* drink heavily).  While of course it is true that Britain has a serious problem with excessive social drinking among the young, and the problems that result, it is hilarious to cite Spain as a model society for alcohol matters.
> 
> Your own Italy would be a far better example. Italians really *don't* get drunk.
> 
> I drink moderately (for a Brit  ). But even I was shocked at the _botellon*_ parties.


Very interesting.
Yes, in Italy we don't drink very much. We prefer a glass (or two) of wine in a restaurant or an half pint of beer in a pub. 
The botellón shocked me also; in Spain media talk about "borrachos de fin de semana" (weekend drunks).


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## emma42

Very interesting about the _botellons, _invictaspirit.  Never heard of them, but I don't know much anyway!

I get the impression that our media more often cite France as a place where people drink healthily (physically, psychologically, culturally), rather than Spain, but I can't give any examples at the moment.


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## Behane

It is not seemly to be drunk in france, and alcohol forms far less of a social function than it does in the uk or spain. You will have no problems on that front - the french youth, in my experience, may go out and drink one or two demis (half pints) but will stop there, and since smoking will soon be banned in public areas, you won't even be bothered by that! Have a great time when you go


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## Milhaud

claudine2006 said:


> I agree with you, in Spain drunkeness among young people (and not only) is a big social problem.
> But foreign people who travel to Spain get used very quickly to Spanish life.


 
That's what I wanted to say.

About the words _botellón _& _calimotxo_ I would like to say something (In Spanish, that is easier for me to explain it):

_botellón -_ Hacer botellón, ir de botellón: son expresiones que se usan en España, pero no únicamente para grandes agrupaciones de gente bebiendo cantidades ingentes de bebida con música y ambulancias cercas (como acabo de leer). Hacer botellón no es necesariamente tan insano como habéis planteado. El botellón es una reunión de amigos que se juntan para beber (normalmente alcohol) en la calle, con el objetivo de hablar, beber barato, y beber *calidad. *El principal problema que tiene salir de noche en España es que cuando pides algo de beber te dan _garrafón _(Alcohol de calidad por debajo de la permitida), y esa es problablemente la principal causa de que se organicen botellones junto con el precio.

_calimotxo_ - Sobre esta palabra únicamente quiero decir que desde mi punto de vista su escritura correcta es con _tx_ y no con _ch_, ya que se trata de una denominación de origen vasco. El calimotxo es simplemente la mezcla de Coca-Cola (y sí, digo Coca-Cola y no Pepsi u otra bebida similar) con vino. Así de primeras puede parecer que está muy malo, pero os animo a que lo probéis, que para el verano es algo muy refrescante .


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## Etcetera

Lada said:


> People who don't drink at all considered to be ill or ex-alcoholics who have been cured and that's why they can't drink anymore because otherwise they will become alholics again.


Is that so?



> Generally if you don't want to drink with Russian people it means that you don't respect them and they will be offened and you won't become a real freind, but it's not a rule for everyone, possibly it is more widespead in country side, but less in big cities. If you are a man, probably you won't fit in the company, but if you are a girl, it's totally OK.


Refusing a glass of champagne at someone's birthday party may indeed be pretty offensive. But I doubt that it's so only in Russia. 
I doubt if someone would still regard refusing to drink in a company as a sign of disrespect. It may be viewed as strange behaviour, probably. But not disrespectful. 

To say the truth, alcoholism in Russia is now a real social problem, with many aspects. But I can tell you for sure: a guy who drinks beer in a bus would seem more strange that a person who refuses to drink completely.


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## lampiao

Well, all I can tell you is I don't drink alcohol myself. I actually don't like it... I figure some people don't like broccoli or onions, I don't like alcohol. I suppose that's ok. My friends already know I may get a soda or some coffe instead.

After reading Etcetera's post, I would add that at birthday parties I may do the sacrifice and drink half a glass, just for the sake of it... But only if I can't avoid it


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