# Russian/Serbian (BCS): Faith Unbreakable



## Willis

Hello--

I came across the Serbian phrase _'вера несаломнва'_, which is said to translate to _'Faith Unbreakable'_.

What is the Russian equivalant of this? _'вера небьющийся'_ ?

I know that _вера_ is the same in both languages, but is _несаломнва _a word in Russian? maybe with a slightly different spelling/pronuciation? I couldn't find it in my Russian dictionary and there was only one word (above) for unbreakable.

I'm interested in the similarities and differences between the two languages.  Thanks.


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## Kolan

Willis said:


> I came across the Serbian phrase _'вера несаломнва'_, which is said to translate to _'Faith Unbreakable'_.
> 
> What is the Russian equivalant of this? _'вера небьющийся'_ ?


It is "*нерушимая/непоколебимая/стойкая вера*". Please note that it is feminine. *Небьющийся *(masculine) could be rather _glass_, other shock resistant solid material.


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## Athaulf

Willis said:


> I came across the Serbian phrase _'вера несалом*и*ва'_, which is said to translate to _'Faith Unbreakable'_.



It does, with the above little correction.  The reverse order of the adjective and the noun makes it sound archaic and epic, just like in the literal English translation. 



> I know that _вера_ is the same in both languages, but is _несаломнва _a word in Russian? maybe with a slightly different spelling/pronuciation? I couldn't find it in my Russian dictionary and there was only one word (above) for unbreakable.


I think the Russian adjective _неломкая_ would be the etymologically closest one to the Serbian _несаломива_ (cf. Serbian _ломити_ and Russian _ломать_ "to break"). However, I don't think it would sound good in this context.


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## Athaulf

Kolan said:


> It is "*нерушимая/непоколебимая/стойкая вера*". Please note that it is feminine. *Небьющийся *(masculine) could be rather _glass_, other shock resistant solid material.



By the way, does reversing the normal order of the adjective and the noun have the same stylistic effect in Russian as in English and Serbian? In English, "faith unbreakable" tends to sound more solemn and poetic than the ordinary phrase "unbreakable faith" (one would probably use the former only in epic poetry), and it's similar with reversing the usual order in Serbian. How would a phrase like _"вера нерушимая" _sound to a Russian ear?


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> How would a phrase like _"вера нерушимая" _sound to a Russian ear?


Sounds to me extremely pathetic, like in the Soviet Anthem, "*Союз нерушимый* республик свободных...". Reversing order makes it more solemn, I agree.


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> I think the Russian adjective _неломкая_ would be the etymologically closest one to the Serbian _несаломива_ (cf. Serbian _ломити_ and Russian _ломать_ "to break"). However, I don't think it would sound good in this context.


*Неломкий *is only used to describe a infrangible sort of solid materials, that normally would be frangible, or gadgets, e.g., slate, ice,  electronic devices etc. as opposed to *ломкий*.

However, there is a Russian word incorporating the both roots, *вероломство*, *вероломный*, which means _breaking trust, faith_ in the most horrible, mean manner. E.g., *вероломное нападение*, in the context of the World War II (Germany against Poland/USSR, or Japan at Pearl Harbour, etc).


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## Athaulf

Kolan said:


> However, there is a Russian word incorporating the both roots, *вероломство*, *вероломный*, which means _breaking trust, faith_ in the most horrible, mean manner. E.g., *вероломное нападение*, in the context of the World War II (Germany against Poland/USSR, or Japan at Pearl Harbour, etc).



Yes, the same words exists in Croatian (_vjerolomni_, _vjerolomstvo_) and Serbian (_вероломни_, _вероломство_) and have the same meaning. 

Which actually reminds me of something that could be relevant for the original poster: is _вера_ supposed to mean religious faith or trust between people? Nowadays, in Serbian this word usually has the former meaning, and the latter one has a slightly archaic tone, although it does survive in some fixed expressions, and it would be very appropriate in some poetic contexts. I think this might be relevant for choosing the best Russian translation.


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> Which actually reminds me of something that could be relevant for the original poster: is _вера_ supposed to mean religious faith or trust between people? Nowadays, in Serbian this word usually has the former meaning, and the latter one has a slightly archaic tone, although it does survive in some fixed expressions, and it would be very appropriate in some poetic contexts. I think this might be relevant for choosing the best Russian translation.


Actually, given the famous spelling issues, it used to be *вѣра* (vjera, Croatian).

And, yes, *вера* (modern spelling) can stand for _faith (убеждение, e.g.: __*вера* в справедливость)_, _religion (верование, e.g.: христианская *вера*)_, _trust (доверие, e.g.: принять на *веру*)_. I put in brackets some explanatory synonyms and examples.


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## Athaulf

Kolan said:


> Actually, given the famous spelling issues, it used to be *вѣра* (vjera, Croatian).



Yes, I know -- you can tell that by the fact that it's _v*je*ra_ in standard Croatian, but _v*e*ra_/_в*е*ра_ in standard Serbian.  In South Slavic languages and regional dialects, reflexes of yat vary all over the place, so in most cases, it's pretty easy for us to tell where yat used to stand, since these words will consistently have _(i)je_, _e_, or _i_ in its place, depending on the dialect (and we're usually aware of the differences in pronunciation of each word among the major dialect groups, or at least between standard Croatian and Serbian). It should also be easy for bilingual Ukrainian/Russian speakers -- I'd gladly bet $50 that this word in Ukrainian is _в*i*ра_.


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## Willis

Very interesting.  Thanks for your insight on this.

The original context is religious.  It is actually an inscription on a shirt--below a picture of St. Sava Cathedral.  The phrase is a bit tacky on a tshirt (faith should be understated, imo), but in English the more forceful and poetic 'Faith Unbreakable' would sound the best.

I'm currently studying Russian, and would eventually like to learn Serbo-Croat.  I'm not trying to learn both now, as that would be too confusing, but I always enjoy comparing the languages from time to time.


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> I'd gladly bet $50 that this word in Ukrainian is _в*i*ра_.


Of course, you can keep your $50 in a wallet.


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## Nanon

Kolan said:


> Sounds to me extremely pathetic, like in the Soviet Anthem, "*Союз нерушимый* республик свободных...". Reversing order makes it more solemn, I agree.


 
Sure! But then what about "неразрушимая вера"? It should sound a little less hymn-like...
Well, OK, indestructible vs unbreakable faith... we can discuss this (though I am no specialist in matters of faith )


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## Kolan

Nanon said:


> Sure! But then what about "*неразрушимая вер*а"? It should sound a little less hymn-like...


Well, it exists, of course, but the use is limited to a deep religious or philosophical context, quite bookish.


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## tram-pam-pam

*несокрушимая
*(... и легендарная )

"Президент Грузии Михаил Саакашвили заявил, что его *вера* в Виктора Ющенко "*несокрушима*".
)


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## Kolan

tram-pam-pam said:


> "Президент Грузии Михаил Саакашвили заявил, что его *вера* в Виктора Ющенко "*несокрушима*".


I am anxious whether he voiced this in Russian or not. As the case it may be, could he say something like  _[нэса-акрушыма]_?


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## Athaulf

Kolan said:


> I am anxious whether he _[Saakashvili]_ voiced this in Russian or not. As the case it may be, could he say something like  _[нэса-акрушыма]_?



Are Georgians really that bad at palatalizing soft consonants? I remember reading a comic in which Stalin was a character, and his lines also had *э* instead of *е *in most words (e.g. _"кол*э*со истории"_). 

Also, what sort of incorrect pronunciation would *-*шы-* denote? Isn't *ш *always hard, and the spelling *-ши-* just a convention?


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> Also, what sort of incorrect pronunciation would *-*шы-* denote? Isn't *ш *always hard, and the spelling *-ши-* just a convention?


Well, not only that, but this fact is a part of most politically incorrect jokes about Georgians. E.g., "_Зачэм такой дарагой машына пакупал?_" The native Georgians manage to pronounce the consonants even harder than the Russians would ever do. "_Сколка будит дважды два? - Сэм, учытел! - Ну, сэм, восэм... Садыс, пат!_"


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