# Translation PMs



## Whodunit

Hi, 

In the past few days, I have noticed that some people expect that active members offer free translations, since they are not allowed in the forums. So, they send PMs to people who are native speakers of the languages they want to have translated.

I don't mind a translation from German into English if it is just one line, one sentence, or even one short paragraph. I don't, however, see any point in translating half a text, if the person doesn't even seem to be interested in the language. He/She just wants to know what the text is about.

Why not direct them to online translators? Because the texts are often unimportant and colloquial chat or email messages, which are hard to translate if you are not a native speaker. So, what should an online translator do then?

Are we obliged to answer such requests? Do I need to write them I don't want to translate it, that I don't have any time, that I don't wish this kind of messages? Or would it be better to ignore it and evade all the trouble?

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Sallyb36

I would ignore them and add the user to my ignore list.


----------



## Agnès E.

The follow-up that you decide to give to PMs sent to you by other foreros (i.e., which are not related to moderation) is your decision; _you are not forced to reply to any PM received from other foreros_.

This kind of request was regularly sent to my inbox before I became a mod (strangely enough, such PMs suddenly disappeared one year ago...  ). I chose to ignore them, as I highly suspected that they were sent to several people in the same time, in order to increase the probability of favourable replies...  No one ever insisted by sending a second PM.


----------



## Kelly B

I think it is an abuse of your good will. 

We put a lot of thought, discussion, and effort into the forum guidelines, not because we're rotten killjoys (well, maybe a little) but because we want people to _learn _here, to give them the tools and skills to do the work for themselves, or to enjoy language more through a deeper understanding. Just having you do it doesn't achieve that goal.

If you reply at all, I think you should tell them to post the questions on the public forums. Then we can deal with it.


----------



## cuchuflete

> I have noticed that some people expect that active members offer free translations, since they are not allowed in the forums.


That's not entirely correct.  We have no rule stating that a request for translation is not allowed.  For example, we have had medical practitioners who have no knowledge of a —for them—foreign language ask for translation help in order to assist a patient.   Should we send them to a machine translator?

It's a question of circumstance and judgment.   Sometimes a grandmother may wish to ask our help in translating a birthday greeting into one of the languages used in a bilingual child's home.  Is that "free translation" request offensive?

In the forums, we have the choice to respond or not.   I see lots of chatboard 'romance' phrase requests.  I don't reply.  Other people are willing to reply, and do so.  That's ok with me.  If the thread starter asks for a phrase or two, I have no reason to be annoyed.  Some people overdo it, and then they get a polite request to try to learn the language, and make an attempt before asking for help.  The "rule" is common sense and courtesy.

I too get lots of PM requests for translation.  If they are from someone with 1 or 0 posts, I explain why it's better to post in the forums.  It's often a case of either shyness, or just not yet understanding how the forums work.   If it's from an experienced forero, or someone making an unreasonable request for a lengthy translation, I do as Sallyb suggests.

I'll take this as an opportunity to again state that there is *no* rule in WR that absolutely requires a thread starter to show their own attempt at translation before asking for help, _unless it is schoolwork. _


----------



## Whodunit

First off, thanks for all your replies. I guess I did the right thing. 



cuchuflete said:


> That's not entirely correct. We have no rule stating that a request for translation is not allowed. For example, we have had medical practitioners who have no knowledge of a —for them—foreign language ask for translation help in order to assist a patient. Should we send them to a machine translator?


 
I know that it allowed to post a sentence to be translated. Nevertheless, this is not the case in the PM I got. Maybe I should explain what the last one was about:

It was seven lines of badly-written German without any capitalization, commas, and it didn't sound as if a native speaker had written it. It would be okay, if the person who sent the PM to me offered his own attempt at a translation or told me what he/she thinks it was about. I wouldn't have minded to correct it or suggest alternatives and clarify things. However, this way it would have been my own job to translate a text I don't like and can't even understand it as a native speaker.

If a grandmother asks for a translation of her birthday card would nothing to complain about, of course. 



> If it's from an experienced forero, or someone making an unreasonable request for a lengthy translation, I do as Sallyb suggests.


 
Who do you think is "experienced?" Soemone with 100, 500, or more than 1000 posts? Someone I regularly see in the forums?



> I'll take this as an opportunity to again state that there is *no* rule in WR that absolutely requires a thread starter to show their own attempt at translation before asking for help, _unless it is schoolwork. _


 
Okay, would you like to translate a totally nonsense paragraph that someone may have written in bad English into Spanish? A text that not even understand completely?

If someone doesn't want to tell where he/she got it from, and doesn't show any interest in the language, I consider the forum the wrong place. We are not like online translation machines, as you know.


----------



## alc112

I just wonder, would be posible not to let Junior members to write pms? I think this would avoid a great amount of such pms we're discusing here.

As you say above, you wouldn't translate a long text unless you know the forero is interested in the language or make his or her own effort. So do I.

We were discusing this with Whodunit in the Msn and we have been asked by the same person (a junior member) for translations.

I always prefer to ignore junior member's pms. I remember once a junior memeber could find my msnmail and added me . It was a very annoying thing and when I discovered where the person got my email, I immediately asked a mod to erase my email form there.


----------



## Jana337

alc112 said:


> I just wonder, would be posible not to let Junior members to write pms? I think this would avoid a great amount of such pms we're discusing here.


Not a good idea at all.  Newbies often need help.





> I always prefer to ignore junior member's pms.


Even nice ones? 


> I remember once a junior memeber could find my msnmail and added me . It was a very annoying thing and when I discovered where the person got my email, I immediately asked a mod to erase my email form there.


We cannot delete your e-mail address. That must be done by you (user control panel).

Jana


----------



## alc112

Jana337 said:


> Not a good idea at all.  Newbies often need help.


I know, but here we have this forum . I think it would also be a good idea to send newbies a automatic pm saying how to use the forum.


> We cannot delete your e-mail address. That must be done by you (user control panel).
> Jana


Ask Tiger. The problem was that in the second thread I posted here I wrote my email adress and that person got it from there.


----------



## Whodunit

Jana337 said:


> Not a good idea at all.  Newbies often need help.


 
I agree that they should be allowed to send PMs, but we could need a rule that explains what is allowed when someone asks for a translation or whatever, so that they don't need to be annoyed if no one answers.



> Even nice ones?


 
I think Alexis was talking about someone else. There are some foreros who logged in here just for fun and contacted the younger members, like Alexis and me. I don't mind if they ask some questions about languages, but I don't like chatting about this and that, just to make new friends. This is not the right forum for such purposes.



alc112 said:


> I know, but here we have this forum . I think it would also be a good idea to send newbies a automatic pm saying how to use the forum.


 
Most newbies would ignore it, as I do with utmost long license texts where you can choose whether or not to agree.



> Ask Tiger. The problem was that in the second thread I posted here I wrote my email adress and that person got it from there.


 
That was not very clever of you, by the way.


----------



## cuchuflete

As I said before, if I get an unreasonable request, I ignore it, just as I choose to ignore some threads that don't interest me.

If a newbie is bothering you with foolish PMs, add them to your ignore list, or send a polite PM saying that you are not interested in corresponding by PM.  

You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide free translation services to anybody, with or without their own attempt, with or without context, and with or without their display of manners.  It is your choice alone.

As far as PMs go, there is no forum rule or guideline at all, except that any person using PMs for spam or solicition or harassing other members should be reported to the mods.  
You are in charge of what you choose to do with unsolicited requests.   "Sorry, but I don't do this." is one way to reply.
Deleting the PM is another.


----------



## Etcetera

I asked once by PM how to say something in Hindi, and I got a reply. I also received some PMs asking me to translate something from/to Russian. These were polite requests, and it was really important for the sender, so I answered without hesitation. 
But what really annoys me is when people ask to translate some chatspeak (is this the right word for it?). It seems to me almost pointless, and above all, I'm not good with this sort of language.


----------



## Whodunit

Yes, Etcetera, that is exactly what I was talking about. Translating from or into one's native language is why we are here, among other things, of course. However, we discourage chatspeak (except as a topic of a thread), and therefore translations of chatspeak from one into the other language is pointless. To top it all, I was asked to translate several lines of chatspeak. One line or some sentence in slang or chatspeak is not discouraged to be translated by me, but more than two lines are just useless.


----------



## ElaineG

t


> There are some foreros who logged in here just for fun


 
This should go without saying, and I'm not suggesting that this is what happened to you, but if anyone ever makes you feel uncomfortable or sends inappropriate PMs, please contact a moderator immediately.

Whatever we are, we are not a dating service, and in the past, we have had some would-be Don Juans, as well as some would-be femmes fatales.

A person who comes here just to send out PMs about love or sex is abusing the PM system and will be dealt with accordingly.


----------



## Nunty

I have asked for translation help by PM, twice, and was very graciously assisted. The people I asked, though, were forum-friends. 

I have also been asked by PM to translate terms or phrases that the person felt fell into my particular area of expertise. When I had the time, I did so; when I did not, I did not.

No one's sent me any lovelorn PMs yet. Am I missing something?


----------



## .   1

Nun-Translator said:


> I have asked for translation help by PM, twice, and was very graciously assisted. The people I asked, though, were forum-friends.
> 
> I have also been asked by PM to translate terms or phrases that the person felt fell into my particular area of expertise. When I had the time, I did so; when I did not, I did not.
> 
> No one's sent me any lovelorn PMs yet. Am I missing something?


Maybe your habits turn lotharios away.
I think that PMs requesting assistance should be treated on their merits.
I have received PMs requesting such help and I politely point out that the forums are the place to do these things as this allows many members to benefit from the translations and the translations are subjected to peer review.
Even I am not infallible .

.,,


----------



## replicante7

alc112 said:


> I think it would also be a good idea to send newbies a automatic pm saying how to use the forum.



I agree with alc: this is a good idea. It would be a wellcoming to the new  forero and also a kindness way to say:  you should  know  the rules  and behave  according  to them.


----------



## Nunty

alc112 said:


> I think it would also be a good idea to send newbies a automatic pm saying how to use the forum.



I'm afraid I disagree. Who actually reads all the stuff they click on to register in a forum? Sending a newbie a bunch of rules is not very welcoming, either.

Look, I don't think newbies are any less intelligent than we are. We were all newbies at one time and we all managed to the learn the ropes, some with more and some with fewer growing pains. This is going to sound painfully naive to some of you, but here goes: If we continue to allow ourselves to be guided by common sense, kindness and good manners, I think things will pretty well work themselves out. 

<Now _where _did I leave that halo...>


----------



## cuchuflete

Nun-Translator said:


> If we continue to allow ourselves to be guided by common sense, kindness and good manners, I think things will pretty well work themselves out.



The only reason we have had to write detailed forum rules, is that a substantial minority of foreros, newbies and 'old-timers' alike, often have difficulties in being guided by common sense, kindness, and good manners.  In an ideal world, the list of forum rules would be reduced to something like, "Be nice."


----------



## replicante7

cuchuflete said:


> In an ideal world, the list of forum rules would be reduced to something like, "Be nice."


That woul be a perfect welcoming for a new member, cuchu. 
I only posted in this thread because it rememebered me that I was rather lost and feeling some kind of "loneliness" when I came up. I would have appreciate someone (even I would had known it was a program) telling me: "we are aware you have joined us".
Maybe I haven't explain well. Sorry!


----------



## Nunty

cuchuflete said:


> The only reason we have had to write detailed forum rules, is that a substantial minority of foreros, newbies and 'old-timers' alike, often have difficulties in being guided by common sense, kindness, and good manners.  In an ideal world, the list of forum rules would be reduced to something like, "Be nice."



Well, they are actually, but you call it ~~Rule Number Two~~. "Nice-ness" and kindness are far underrated as guiding principles, in my opinion.

But back to the question of PMs. Just someone (was it Cuchu?) said, no one is required to answer, just as no one is required to chime in on every forum thread. Not answering works very well. For continuing annoyances, I would use the "ignore list".

I think this is just a case of being guided by our own good sense (sorry) and the essential and basic internet safety rule: If someone is making you feel uncomfortable, don't reply to them. If they continue, tell someone about it.


----------



## maxiogee

I too would disagree with a automated PM. As Sister says, it's unwelcoming. What could be useful would be an "introduce yourself" forumette - allowing people to say who they are, why they are here and to be greeted by those who feel inclined to do so. These welcomes could then include a hint or two on forum etiquette, when necessary.


----------



## cuchuflete

Forumette?  Hmmmmmm.  What are the odds that would quickly become a chatroomette?


----------



## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:


> Forumette?  Hmmmmmm.  What are the odds that would quickly become a chatroomette?



Not if we were restricted to a single post in any thread there.


----------



## TrentinaNE

maxiogee said:


> Not if we were restricted to a single post in any thread there.


Interesting concept, Tony, but I'm not sure the software can handle that sort of restriction.

Elisabetta


----------



## lsp

Automated welcomes and "introduce yourself" threads, were seriously considered in this thread, I was surprised no one else brought it up again.


----------



## cuchuflete

maxiogee said:


> Not if we were restricted to a single post in any thread there.



It cannot be controlled programmatically; mods have better things to do than delete excess posts; we have, you and I, seen a lot of chatter packed into a single post.

Finally, it wouldn't take the Ladies and Sirs Chatterlys long to discover the limit and open second, third....nth threads.

In short, it's a brilliant idea whose time is yet to come.


----------

