# deel, delen (part, to share)



## ThomasK

It suddenly struck me that we use Prefix + 'delen' (part-) where other languages don't, so it seems to me:

a. A *share* of a company: *een aandeel*
b. I *share* your grief :* ik deel (delen)*
c. Let's *share* the cake into pieces and pass it on: *we verdelen en delen uit (uitdelen) *
d. We divide the cake: *we delen op (opdelen)*
e. The *division/ structure* of a book:* de indeling* 
f. the *de-part-ment*: *af-deling*
etc.

I suppose you don't have the same stem in your translations of these words or do you? Or do you have parallel differences? 

My starting point was this apparently natural relationship reflected in the common root/ stem, which I cannot consider a fact, I suppose, as other languages do not use the same stem - or can I ?


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## Tjahzi

*Swedish*:

a. _Andel_.
b. _Dela_.
c. _Dela kakan och fördela/dela ut bitarna._ (_Fördela_ - allocate, divide, share. _Dela ut_ - hand out.)
d. _Vi delar upp kakan.
_e. _Indelning_. However, in no way limited to books. 
f. _Avdelning_.

To sum up, Swedish shows a very high degree of syntactic correspondence with Dutch.


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## ThomasK

Great to hear that, and indeed, that is quite, quite similar. I am a little surprised even. 

German is also very similar: 
a. *Aktie/ Anteil* (when not economic: that was my - in the event)
b. *Teilen* (I think). 
c. *Teilen und verteilen/ austeilen. *
d.* Aufteilung (*different prefix: on). 
e. *Abteilung*.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
a. «Μετοχή» (meto'çi _f._); from the Classical verb «μετέχω» (mĕ'tĕxō, me'texo in the modern language)-->_to partake of, share in_. Compound formed by the joining together of the prefix and preposition «μετὰ» (mĕ'tă)--> _in the midst of, in common with, by means of, in pursuit, in quest of_ + verb «ἔχω» ('ĕxō)-->_ to have, hold, possess, keep_, PIE base *segh-, _to get, obtain_. A more colloquial word is «μοιράδι» (mi'raði, _n._); from the Hellenistic adj. «μοιῥάδιος/μοιῥαδία/μοιῥάδιον» (moi'rhădīŏs, _m._/moirhă'dīă, _f._/moi'rhădīŏn, _n._) or «μοιῥίδιος/μοιῥιδία/μοιῥίδιον» (moi'rhĭdīŏs, _m._/moirhĭ'dīă, _f._/moi'rhĭdīŏn, _n._)-->_ allotted by destiny, destined, doomed,_ turned into noun. «Μοιράδι» is the folkish name for _share, proportion_. From PIE base *smer-, _to remember_. 
b. «Μοιράζομαι» (mi'razome); from the Classical verb «μοιῥάω/μοιῥῶ» (moi'rhāō [uncontracted]/moi'rhō [contracted])-->_ to share, divide, distribute_. Attention though! «Mοιῥάω/μοιῥῶ» (moi'rhāō [uncontracted]/moi'rhō [contracted]) has given in the modern language the verb «μοιράζω» (mi'razo) which is in active voice and means _to divide_. In mediopassive voice, «μοιράζομαι» (mi'razome), means _to share_. From PIE base *smer-, _to remember_. 
c. idem (μοιράζω or μοιράζομαι) 
d. idem (μοιράζω or μοιράζομαι) 
e. «Κατανομή» (katano'mi _f._); from the Classical verb «κατανέμω» (kătă'nĕmō)-->_to distribute, allot, divide into portions_. Compound formed by the joining together of the prefix and preposition «κατὰ» (kā'tă)-->_ down from, down to_ + verb «νέμω» ('nĕmō)--> _to deal out, dispense, distribute_. From PIE base *nem-, _to allot, distribute_.
f. «Διαμέρισμα» (ðia'merizma _n._). Compound formed by the joining together of the prefix and preposition «διὰ» (dī'ă)-->_ through, throughout_ + Hellenistic neuter noun «μέῥισμα» ('mĕrhīsmă)-->_ part_. «Διαμέρισμα» (ðia'merizma _n._) is a katharevousa word (constructed a couple of centuries ago at the most), in order to translate/render the French _appartement_.


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## DearPrudence

In French, *a part = une part / une partie*, which comes from Old French "*partir*", partager (now, "partir" means "to leave") (see here)

a. A *share* of a company: *une part*
b. I *share* your grief :* partager*
c. Let's *share* the cake into pieces and pass it on:* Divisons / partageons / coupons ce gâteau*
d. We divide the cake: *on  divise / partage *
e. The *division/ structure* of a book:* la structure d'un livre*
f. the *de-part-ment*: *le département* (apparently comes from "départir" = partager)

Other words with "part":
*"un départ"* (a departure)
*"une partition"* (music sheet or division of a country into several independent countries)
*"participer"* (to participate)

*"une parturiente" *(woman who's giving birth) doesn't seem to be from the same family.


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## ThomasK

You were right about *'parturiente*': it comes from _parere_, to leave, so I read (whereas it would have to do with parting, dividing, so with _part_))? Thanks !


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## Gavril

Welsh _rhan_ "part" appears in at least four out of six:

a. _cyf*ran*daliad_
b. _*rhan*nu_ is the general word for "share", but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for "I share your grief"
c. _rhannu_
d. (_dos_)_rhannu_
e. _strwythur_ seems to be most common when talking about the structure of a book
f. _ad*ran*_


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## DenisBiH

Bosnian / BCS.




> a. A share of a company: een aandeel


Jedna *dionica* kompanije.




> b. I share your grief : ik deel (delen)


*Dijelim* tvoju bol.




> c. Let's share the cake into pieces and pass it on: we verdelen en delen uit (uitdelen)


Idemo *podijeliti* tortu na *dijelove* i *razdijeliti* ih. 

(not idiomatic though, we'd sooner use isjeći - "to cut", šnite "pieces of cake" - Idemo isjeći tortu na šnite i razdijeliti ih.)




> d. We divide the cake: we delen op (opdelen)


*Dijelimo* tortu.




> e. The division/ structure of a book: de indeling


*Podjela* knjige.




> f. the de-part-ment: af-deling


*Odjeljenje*. od-djel-jenje I believe.


The _dio_/_dijel_/_djel_ element is from Proto-Slavic **dělъ*, most probably cognate to Dutch *deel*.


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## ThomasK

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> A more colloquial word is «μοιράδι» (mi'raði, _n._); (...) «Μοιράδι» is the folkish name for _share, proportion_. From PIE base *smer-, _to remember_.
> b. «Μοιράζομαι» (mi'razome); from the Classical verb «μοιῥάω/μοιῥῶ» (moi'rhāō [uncontracted]/moi'rhō [contracted])-->_ to share, divide, distribute_.
> f. «Διαμέρισμα» (ðia'merizma _n._). (...) «Διαμέρισμα» (ðia'merizma _n._) is a katharevousa word (constructed a couple of centuries ago at the most), in order to translate/render the French _appartement_.


 
Could there be a link between b and f, Amoy ? µ
And between 'métèque' and Μετοχή (in the famous Moustaki song: 'Avec ma gueule de méteque...')? I am not so sure, just asking...


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## ThomasK

Gavril said:


> Welsh _rhan_ "part" appears in at least four out of six:
> e. _strwythur_ seems to be most common when talking about the structure


 
Only one extra question, Gavril: could you imagine more words with that part/ stem, and an alternative Welsh word for something like 'structure'? 

As for BCS: quite interesting to read about that. Could you imagine more words with that stem in BCS?


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## DenisBiH

ThomasK said:


> As for BCS: quite interesting to read about that. Could you imagine more words with that stem in BCS?



dodijeliti - to grant, to award
udijeliti - to give charity, to give to a beggar
izdijeliti - to separate into parts (focus is on parts, not the division itself)
dioba - division, dividing
djeljiv - divisible
opredijeliti se - to make up one's mind (reflexive)
odijeliti - to separate
udio - share (in/of something)
odjel - similar to odjeljenje
odjeljak - compartment, section


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> Could there be a link between b and f, Amoy ?


«Mέρισμα» derives from the ancient verb «μερίζω» (mĕ'rīzō)-->_to sever, cut off, split up_, from the same PIE root with «μοιράζω» (*smer-) with slightly different meaning though.


ThomasK said:


> And between 'métèque' and Μετοχή (in the famous Moustaki song: 'Avec ma gueule de méteque...')? I am not so sure, just asking...


I think "métèque" is from «μέτοικος» ('mĕtoikŏs)-->_resident alien_, isn't it? From the prefix «μετὰ» (mĕ'tă)-->_in the midst of, among, between_ + masculine noun «οἶκος» ('oikŏs)-->_house, dwelling-place_. Btw is _métèque_ still considered an offensive word in French?

And...Moustaki? (god I'm old, I actually know who Moustaki is)


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## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> Only one extra question, Gavril: could you imagine more words with that part/ stem, and an alternative Welsh word for something like 'structure'?



Don't think I haven't been trying to find this.  The noun _rhaniad_ "division, distribution" could probably be used in this sense without confusing people, but Google only brings up one result for _rhaniad y llyfr_ "structure / division of the book" -- _strwythur y llyfr_ is far more common.

On the other hand, the verb _rhannu_ seems relatively common when discussing the divisions of a book: e.g., _Rhennir y llyfr yn ddwy adran fawr_ "The book is divided into two large sections."


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## Selyd

In Ukrainian:
a. Частка компанії: A *share* of a company
b. Я поділяю ваше горе: I *share* your grief
c. Давайте поділимо пиріг і роздамо: Let's *share* the cake into pieces and pass it on
   c. Давайте розділимо пиріг (Between the visitors)
d. Ми ділимо пиріг: We divide the cake
e. Розділ книги: The *division/ structure* of a book 
f. Відділ, філія: the *department, branch*


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## ThomasK

@Apmoy: you're right, _metoikos_ is the right word ! And Moustaki: listen here ! As for the present connotation I hope DearPrudence will be able to help; I wonder whether it is still commonly used... 

@Gavril: I was not suggesting anything, you know, just asking. By the way: we might perhaps use _opbouw_/ build up in Dutch as well. The main point is I am looking for non-Latin words mainly. 

@Selyd: I am not that good at reading Cyrillic, but is it correct that they hardly share a stem, or is the dip/-діл- the 'part' word ?


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## DenisBiH

ThomasK said:


> @Selyd: I am not that good at reading Cyrillic, but is it correct that they hardly share a stem, or is the dip/-діл- the 'part' word ?



Selyd will probably answer this but in the mean time, just a small correction and some notes:

Cyrillic л = l, so dil if Ukrainian -і- is indeed -i-. To me it seems that -діл- is the Ukrainian reflex of **dělъ, *so yes that would be the "part" word. I think I also see another word for "part" there, Част-, we have it in BCS as well in some words (čestica "particle")


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## bibax

Czech:

a. (akciový) podíl (or akcie = Aktie);
b. Sdílím váš zármutek.
c. Rozdělme koláč/dort.
d. Dělíme koláč (imperf. - we divide), rozdělíme koláč (perf. - we shall divide). 
e. (roz)dělení = division/structure;  
f. oddělení, oddíl;

Stem: *-děl-* (short), *-díl-* (long), related to German *Teil*;

Nouns: díl (dim. dílek, díleček), podíl, rozdíl (= difference), dělba (= division/distribution), úděl (= deal/lot/fate);

In mathematics: dělenec, dělitel, podíl, dělitelný (= divisible), dělit (= to divide).

There are many prefixed verbs: dělit, sdělit, rozdělit, udělit, nadělit, vydělit, podělit, sdílet, rozdílet, udílet, ..., rozdělovat, udělovat, nadělovat, ...,

We have the word *část* (= part; částice = particule), too, however it is rarely used for deriving verbs.


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## ThomasK

I am sorry, Dennis/ Selyd, I should have known that! Thanks! 

But then we end up having a similar word PLUS lots of derivations, like in Dutch. I am surprised. But where do you use *část* ? In what kind of context (or derivations)?


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## bibax

I should say without warranty that *část* (= part) is used when it is not a result of real (or intended) partitioning.

For example: *části* lidského těla = parts of the human body,

versus

*světadíl* (and not světačást) = continent (lit. part of the world), as a result of divison of Pangea.

It would explain that the root -část- is not used for deriving verbs denoting division.


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## ThomasK

Great, yes, I see. 

We use _delen_ in both cases, but we could say _ledematen_ instead of _lichaamsdelen_ when referring to the parts of the human body (with _lid_ referring to pgm. _*liþu-_ ‘joint, member of the body, part/component of an assembled whole’, so I read at etymologiebank.nl, whereas _maat_ remains unclear, so it seems).


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## Orlin

ThomasK said:


> It suddenly struck me that we use Prefix + 'delen' (part-) where other languages don't, so it seems to me:
> For Bulgarian:
> a. A *share* of a company: *een aandeel*
> *Дял*/акция от компания - in Bulgaria it depends on the type of company according to the legislation.
> b. I *share* your grief :* ik deel (delen)*
> (Аз) спо*дел*ям мъката ти.
> c. Let's *share* the cake into pieces and pass it on: *we verdelen en delen uit (uitdelen)
> *Нека раз*дел*им тортата на парчета и да ги раздадем.
> d. We divide the cake: *we delen op (opdelen)*
> (Ние) *дел*им тортата.
> e. The *division/ structure* of a book:* de indeling*
> раз*дел*ение на книгата (?) - not completely sure
> f. the *de-part-ment*: *af-deling*
> от*дел* (?) - not completely sure
> etc.
> 
> I suppose you don't have the same stem in your translations of these words or do you? Or do you have parallel differences?
> 
> My starting point was this apparently natural relationship reflected in the common root/ stem, which I cannot consider a fact, I suppose, as other languages do not use the same stem - or can I ?


We still use the common Slavic word *дял* for a part or a share and there are numerous derivatives from it, but the commonest word for _a part _in Bulgarian is _част_ (just the same as Russian _часть_; Russian has quite many words from the root *-дел-* though).

@DenisBiH: koristite li vi u BiH _akcija_ http://hjp.srce.hr/index.php?show=search_by_id&id=f1tkUA==&keyword=akcija u rečenici _a_ kao Hrvati ili mi Bugari?


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## ThomasK

That looks excellent, Orlin. Just help me with the translateration:

*дел*им (/deliam/ ?), 
парчета (/parteta/ ?) ,_[is the /ч/ some kind of a /t/?]_
част(ь) (/gast(?)/)
дял (/dep/ ?)

But don't you have any words with _part_/ ... to refer to the structure of books, parts of a firm?


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## Orlin

ThomasK said:


> That looks excellent, Orlin. Just help me with the translateration:
> 
> *дел*им (/deliam/ ?),
> парчета (/parcheta/ ?) ,_[is the /ч/ some kind of a /t/? - it's an affricate of /t/ and /sh/]_
> част(ь) (/chast(?)/)
> дял (/dyal/ ?)
> 
> But don't you have any words with _part_/ ... to refer to the structure of books, parts of a firm?


In fact the general rule is that част refers to parts that aren't a result of division while дял is a result of division, and I think that there are much fewer derivatives from част.


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## ThomasK

Thanks. Your note concerning the difference reminds me of Bibax's note in #19. This distinction is not one I can detect in Dutch, but I think you have a word with част referrring to a continent/ _werelddeel,_ based on част. I wonder whether English for example makes such a distinction. 

_The distinction makes one wonder about the psychological or cultural aspects of (division/ dividing into) parts. We sometimes 'perceive' parts where others don't, etc. And 'continent' (sticking together)/ vasteland (land stuck [vast]) vs; werelddeel/ 'world part' show different views on/ angles or aspects of the same reality. More 'part' words in your language welcome !_


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## DenisBiH

Orlin said:


> @DenisBiH: koristite li vi u BiH _akcija_ http://hjp.srce.hr/index.php?show=search_by_id&id=f1tkUA==&keyword=akcija u rečenici _a_ kao Hrvati ili mi Bugari?



Riječ je sasvim sigurno poznata i po Google vidim i da se koristi, ali meni je bliža _dionica_.


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