# To want and to want (to)



## Tjahzi

In both my native language, Swedish, and English, a distinction is made between the act of wanting to preform a verb and that of wanting to receive/possess a noun. 

In English, this distinction is made through adding the infinitive marker _to_ to indicate that the wanting focuses on an action rather than an object. 

Compare:
_I want food. _- _I want to eat.

_Swedish, too, makes this distinction, but instead of marking the phrase containing a verb, the phrase with a noun is modified through the addition of the copula _ha_ (to have) in its infinite form right before the noun. Meanwhile, the verb in the corresponding phrase stands alone, without an infinitive marker (but in its infinitive form).

Examples:
_Jag vill ha mat. - Jag vill äta._


Is this distinction made in your language? If so, how? By adding a particle? By using different verbs?

Note: The Swedish examples above translate to the English ones further above. They appear in the same order. In both languages, the "marker/modifier" is underlined.


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## Ghabi

In Chinese you add the verb 要 _yao4_ "need" before the noun. For example, 我想要錢 "I want money" vs 我想打劫銀行 "I want to rob a bank".


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## ilocas2

In Czech there's no such distinction. In both cases there's no preposition or marker.


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## jazyk

Portuguese is like Czech here.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:
Want: «Θέλω» ('θelo) from the Classical «ἐθέλω» (ĕ'tʰĕlō)-->_be willing, wish_ which in Hellenistic Greek lost the initial unstressed vowel. With obscure etymology. Some philologists see a link with the oblique Armenian stem _gelj, to wish_.
Want to: «Θέλω να» ('θelo na); verb «θέλω» + generic subordinator «να» which marks the following verb as being in the subjunctive mood. Etymologically speaking, «να» derives from the Classical interjection «ἤν» (ēn)-->_see there!_, which in Medieval times became «ἠνὰ» (ē'nă). Cognate with the Latin interjection _ēn

_[θ] is a voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative


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## Rallino

*Turkish* is like Portuguese and Czech here.


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## DearPrudence

Rallino said:


> *Turkish* is like Portuguese and Czech here.


Same for *French*:
"_vouloir (faire) quelque chose_" (_to want (to do) something_)


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## Awwal12

Russian doesn't look any different from Czech in this aspect.
Я хочу есть - I want to eat ("I" + present 1st person singular "want" + infinitive "to eat")
Я хочу еды - I want food ("I" + present 1st person singular "want" + "food" in the partitive case)


> In both my native language, Swedish, and English, a distinction is made between the act of wanting to preform a verb and that of wanting to receive/possess a noun.
> 
> In English, this distinction is made through adding the infinitive marker to to indicate that the wanting focuses on an action rather than an object.


But "to" is a part of a target verb (just marks its infinitive), it isn't related to the verb "want". Obviously, in English "want" demands an infinitive form from verbs and the accusative case from nouns and pronouns, but arguments don't influence the very verb "to want".
In Russian, infinitives are expressed by verbal flexions instead of particles (like "to"); what's then?


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## Gavril

Japanese makes this distinction (and much more). To say "I want [something]", you use the adjective _hoshii_:

_Watashi wa kuruma ga hoshii desu.
_"I want a car"

To say "I want [to do something]", you add the suffix _-tai_ onto the verb:

_Watashi wa eiga o mitai.
_"I want to see a movie" (_mitai _"want to see" < _miru _"see")

However, there are many additional complexities that I don't know much about. For example, you can't use the _-tai_ construction in a third-person sentence (e.g., "He wants to see a movie"), and the same may be true of _hoshii_.


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*: No distinction. _Haluan ruokaa_ and _haluan syödä_.


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## Ghabi

Gavril said:


> For example, you can't use the _-tai_ construction in a third-person sentence (e.g., "He wants to see a movie"), and the same may be true of _hoshii_.


Yes, we need _tagaru_ and _hoshigaru_ for the third person, with _-gar_u meaining "showing signs of ...", kind of an "evidential" suffix.

Actually in Chinese one may also argue that two different words are used for "to want". In my above post I say that 想要 _xiang3yao4_ is used for wanting something, but in fact 想 _xiang3_ is not necessary and we can simply say 我要錢 ("I want money!" as uttered by a mugger when answering the question "What do you want?").


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## ThomasK

Dutch: nothing special really, I think. 'Ik wil X' and 'Ik wil' [inf., no 'te'].


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## Dymn

Swedish stands out as requiring "to have" after "want". I wonder if it's the same in other languages. Maybe its Scandinavian sisters? English is just like most European languages in that regard.

In *Catalan* there's no distinction, in fact both examples are exactly the same because the word for "food" is a nominalized infinitive from "eat":

I want food: _Vull menjar_
I want to eat: _Vull menjar_

In *Spanish *no distinction either:

I want food:_ Quiero comida_
I want to eat: _Quiero comer_


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## Olaszinhok

In *Italian*:
I want food    _*Voglio (del) cibo*_ (the partitive article is preferable here).
I want to eat  _*Voglio mangiare*_

* In my opinion, *Voglio* (I want) sounds a bit cheeky and rude in Italian, the conditional *vorrei* would sound much more polite.


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish 


I want food = Ja chcę jedzenie.

I want to eat = Ja chcę jeść ,_zjeść ._


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## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh*

'want' in Welsh is NOT a verb but a noun. Technically, we don't have verbs anyway, but masc. verbal nouns.

I want food = *Rydw i eisiau bwyd*
I want to eat =* Rydw i eisiau bwyta*

If '*eisiau*' (numerous different dialectical pronunciations possible) were a verb, you would place the predicate '*yn*' before it: '**yn* *eisiau*' is however wrong.

But more and more so, if we are talking about computer operations, we use the preposition 'am' (which I suppose is best translated as 'for' with the idea of an intention in the background, followed by Treiglad Meddal/Soft Mutation.)

*Ydych chi am fwrw ymlaen?* = Are you for proceeding forward? = Do you want to continue?
*- Ydw, dw i am fwrw ymlaen *= Yes-I-am, I am for proceeding forward = Yes, I want to continue

*'Am' *would not work in the first two sentences, as this renders the meaning ambiguous:

*Rydw i am fwyta *= I am about to eat (Immediate Future)
*(*Rydw i am fwyd* does not work here)

If we are using 'want' in the sense of 'lacking' then the phrasing follows traditionally Celtic modelling and using '*eisiau*' with an inflected preposition.

*Mae arnaf (fi) eisiau bwyd *= Is on-me want food = I want food
*Mae eisiau bwyd arnaf (fi) *= Is want food on-me = I want food


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## ThomasK

I keep wondering whether the meanings are perfectly the same. Someone pointed out (#14) that in Italian you might switch  between _voglio _and _vorrei_, which might be a hint referring to that difference/ distinction. It may have to do with the structure as such:
- _I want [N] something/ ik wil iets _sounds very demanding
- _I want_ [V + ...] _to go/ ik wil gaan_ does not sound as "bad"
I tried to explore similar variations (want/ wish/ need) here....


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## elroy

Standard Arabic marks the verbal object with the particle أن /an/.

أريد أكلاً /uri:du aklan/ = I want food. 
أريد أن آكل /uri:du an a:kula/ = I want to eat. 

Palestinian Arabic does not have such a marker.

بدي أكل /biddi akel/ = I want food. 
بدي آكل /biddi a:kol/ = I want to eat.

Hebrew doesn’t make a distinction either:

אני רוצה אוכל /ani rotse|a oxel/ = I want food. 
אני רוצה לאכול /ani rotse|a leexol/ = I want to eat. 
/rotse/ = masculine 
/rotsa/ = feminine


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## ThomasK

Interesting note. Do you associate any specific meaning to the particle. The English _[want] *to*_ (vers in French, towards) might suggest something like striving, hoping, reaching for, more explicity than just _want, _which might be a claim more than a wish??? _(This is only a question from a non-native wishful thinker with some imagination...)_


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## apmoy70

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> Want: «Θέλω» ('θelo) from the Classical «ἐθέλω» (ĕ'tʰĕlō)-->_be willing, wish_ which in Hellenistic Greek lost the initial unstressed vowel. With obscure etymology. Some philologists see a link with the oblique Armenian stem _gelj, to wish_.
> Want to: «Θέλω να» ('θelo na); verb «θέλω» + generic subordinator «να» which marks the following verb as being in the subjunctive mood. Etymologically speaking, «να» derives from the Classical interjection «ἤν» (ēn)-->_see there!_, which in Medieval times became «ἠνὰ» (ē'nă). Cognate with the Latin interjection _ēn_
> 
> [θ] is a voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative


Apologies for quoting myself, but my analysis that the generic subordinator which introduces a subjunctive clause in MoGr *«να»* [na] derives from the conjunction *«ἤν» ḗn*, a contraction of *«ἐάν» ĕā́n*, is wronɡ!
Nα is the aphetism of the subordinating conjunction *«ἵνα» hínă* --> _that, in order that_ with possible coɡnates the Skt. instrumental येन (yena), _whither, wherefore_, Proto-Celtic *kina, _on this side of_, from PIE *Hio- _who, which_.

The Classical/Koine *«ἐθέλω εἰπεῖν» ĕtʰélō eipeîn* --> _I want to say_ (1st p. Present indicative v. + infinitive), became in the early middle ages *«ἐθέλω ἵνα εἴπω» ethélō ína ípō* --> _I want that I say_ (1st p. Present indicative v. + subordinating conjunction + aorist subjunctive; the ἵνα introduces a coreferential subject in the infinitival clause), and in Modern Greek *«θέλω να πω»* [ˈθe̞lo̞ˌna ˈpo̞] --> _I want that I say_.


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## Dymn

ThomasK said:


> The English _[want] *to*_ (vers in French, towards) might suggest something like striving, hoping, reaching for, more explicity than just _want, _which might be a claim more than a wish??? _(This is only a question from a non-native wishful thinker with some imagination...)_


Not a native speaker but I would say it's just the infinitive._ I like games. I like to play. I want food. I want to eat._


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## Welsh_Sion

I think that @ThomasK might be on to something here. (Note that discussion is being conducted by all of us who are not native speakers of English. Where are they so they can help us?!)

Anyway, whilst I also feel that @Dymn is correct with regards to a *verb* following the 'want to' amounts to the infinitive, then you can also have a structure of 'want to' meaning a striving, reaching for some goal, as perceived by @ThomasK. I refer you to the lyrics of Enya in _Only if_. Here we have the examples of* 'want to' + verb*, or more precisely, *'want to + AUX.'* (" ... want  to will ...") *and * '*want to + pronoun*' (" ... want to you can ... ").

Enya - Only If... Lyrics | AZLyrics.com

[Sorry no video - self-censored]

PS Enya, too, who shares her birthday with me, is a non-native speaker of English!


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> Standard Arabic marks the verbal object with the particle أن /an/.
> 
> أريد أكلاً /uri:du aklan/ = I want food.
> أريد أن آكل /uri:du an a:kula/ = I want to eat.


Actually this distinction is only if you use a verb because the verb أريد is needs a مفعول به, which should be noun or equivalent. However, you could replace أن والفعل with a مصدر and say أريد الأكل. Come to think of it, isn’t a مصدر equivalent to the English "to+verb”?

I’m not contesting anything here, I’m just thinking outlet loud.


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> this distinction is only if you use a verb


Indeed, and that did occur to me as I was posting.  However, I understood the original question to be precisely about what happens when the object is a verb as opposed to a noun.


Tjahzi said:


> a distinction is made between the act of wanting to preform a *verb* and that of wanting to receive/possess a *noun*


It's interesting that Standard Arabic requires a particle if the object is a verb, while Palestinian Arabic doesn't. 


Mahaodeh said:


> Come to think of it, isn’t a مصدر equivalent to the English "to+verb”?


Morphologically speaking, I would say it's equivalent to the gerund (the "-ing" form).  In practice, however, it does often correspond to the infinitive in English.  

Arabic doesn't actually have infinitives, so there's no _literal_ translation of "I want to eat":
أريد أن آكل = literally "I want that I eat."
أريد الأكل = literally "I want the eating."
In both cases, though, the _idiomatic_ translation would be "I want to eat."


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