# when to use 은 and when to use로?



## goophy

Hello,

I was puzzled by the following sentences. The pattern is A is made of (from) B, but why a. is different from b and c? Why a uses 은 and b, c use 로? So confusing!

a. 소금은 바닷물를 만듭니다.
b. 유리로 의자를 만듭니다.
c. 바나나로 디저트를 만듭니다.

Thank you for your help.

goophy


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## Hi Im Gosu

The sequence of them is different.

First of all,
A means 'the salt' is made with 'the seawater'
B means 'the chair' is made with 'the glass'
C means 'the dessert' is made with 'the banana'

Get the point of this?

When you write something is made with something else, you can use two types of sentences.
1. A은/는 B로 만듭니다.
2. B로 A을/를 만듭니다.

Hope you got the point


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## goophy

Thank you very much, Gosu.

So do you mean that all sentences are correct. So, if I rewrite the sentence a, b, and c respectively into:

a. 바닷물로 소금을 만듭니다.
b. 의자는  유리로 만듭니다.
c.  디저트는 바나나로 만듭니다.

They are also correct, right?

Thanks again.


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## Hi Im Gosu

goophy said:


> Thank you very much, Gosu.
> 
> So do you mean that all sentences are correct. So, if I rewrite the sentence a, b, and c respectively into:
> 
> a. 바닷물로 소금을 만듭니다.
> b. 의자는  유리로 만듭니다.
> c.  디저트는 바나나로 만듭니다.
> 
> They are also correct, right?
> 
> Thanks again.



Yeah it makes sense but while we do not make all of the chairs with glass. Also we do not make all of desserts with the banana. So we should actualize specific cases,  like 'This chair is made with glass'. So the sentence would be better if you write it like '이 의자는 유리로 만들어졌다.'

Moderator's note: This post was not visible when the post below was posted. (It hadn't been approved by a moderator.) I apologize for any confusion this caused.  
Cagey, moderator


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## mink-shin

My try.

a. 소금은 바닷물*을* 만듭니다. = Salt makes sea-water. (소금 is the subject of a)
b. 유리로 의자를 만듭니다. = (       ) makes chair with glass. (The subject of b is omitted.)
c. 바나나로 디저트를 만듭니다. (       ) makes dessert with banana ( The subject of c is omitted.)

It's natural phenomenon salt's making sea-water. So I don't feel any uncomfortable with "소금은 바닷물을 만듭니다."
But I would feel uncomfortable if your b, c sentences were written in like
"b. 유리는 의자를 만듭니다."
"c. 바나나는 디저트를 만듭니다."
Making chair or making dessert can't be done naturally.


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## mink-shin

Let me put three dashes to distinguish them from the formal version of them.

a-. 바닷물로 소금을 만듭니다.
b-. 의자는 유리로 만듭니다.
c-. 디저트는 바나나로 만듭니다.

a- means making salts from sea-water like the manufacture by solar evaporation.
In this situation where we don't have any context, b- sounds weird to me. To me it sounds like it's only from glass that chair can be made.
I would add a determiner if I saw a chair made from glass.
e.g. "그 의자는 유리로 만듭니다." 그 is the in English.
Likewise, c- sounds weird to me as well. It sounds like it's only from banana that dessert can be made.

Probably, if I was watching a TV cooking program in which some course meal including some banana dessert was going to be introduced, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at all.


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## Hi Im Gosu

mink-shin said:


> My try.
> 
> a. 소금은 바닷물*을* 만듭니다. = Salt makes sea-water. (소금 is the subject of a)
> b. 유리로 의자를 만듭니다. = (       ) makes chair with glass. (The subject of b is omitted.)
> c. 바나나로 디저트를 만듭니다. (       ) makes dessert with banana ( The subject of c is omitted.)
> 
> It's natural phenomenon salt's making sea-water. So I don't feel any uncomfortable with "소금은 바닷물을 만듭니다."
> But I would feel uncomfortable if your b, c sentences were written in like
> "b. 유리는 의자를 만듭니다."
> "c. 바나나는 디저트를 만듭니다."
> Making chair or making dessert can't be done naturally.



Hi mink shin. I read your post but I think something's wrong with your sentences.

First,  A.소금은 바닷물을 만듭니다. Means 'Salt makes seawater.' and I never saw salt making seawater. Rain, and something more makes seawater, not salt.
And B. 유리는 의자를 만듭니다. Also doesn't make sense cause the people makes it. Glass can't make a chair 
The final one C. 바나나는 디저트를 만듭니다. Banana can't cook, we(human-being) cook it right(maybe some other animal cook but generally.)?

So I think that sentences are little bit weird.


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## mink-shin

Hi Im Gosu said:


> First, A.소금은 바닷물을 만듭니다. Means 'Salt makes seawater.' and I never saw salt making seawater. Rain, and something more makes seawater, not salt.


I don't know what to say with this. Sorry, but I wouldn't like to argue over this.


Hi Im Gosu said:


> And B. 유리는 의자를 만듭니다. Also doesn't make sense cause the people makes it. Glass can't make a chair
> The final one C. 바나나는 디저트를 만듭니다. Banana can't cook, we(human-being) cook it right(maybe some other animal cook but generally.)?


Yeah, I agree. That's why I would feel uncomfortable.


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## Hi Im Gosu

mink-shin said:


> So I don't feel any uncomfortable with "소금은 바닷물을 만듭니다."



I misread you post sorry 

And I'm really really sorry for bothering you but can you explain me that quote?

I'm soooooo confused now ;(

I can't understand what you're trying to say ㅠㅠ


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## mink-shin

Hi Im Gosu said:


> I misread you post sorry
> 
> And I'm really really sorry for bothering you but can you explain me that quote?



Unfortunately, I think I can't explain it properly. I didn't feel uncomfortable when I saw the sentence. That's all. It's very hard to explain what's going on in my brain.

Even though I knew it's not only salt that makes sea-water, I felt it sounded not bad, and which is all I can tell you unfortunately.

Sorry for answering unclearly.


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## Hi Im Gosu

Thank you that you tried to explain what you feel, mink shin.

I am going to analyze that sentence by myself! Have a nice day!!


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## goophy

Thank you, Gosu 씨, and mink-shin 씨.

@gosu: I kind of got what you were driving at. However, I've only read part of your post, which was deleted without knowing why. From the part I read, I assume that you were trying to tell me that if things are clearly understood as a universal truth, then you can use 는 and the subject don't need to be specified. If the subject is specific, then the determiner should be added in front of the subject. Am I right?

@mink-shin: Thank you for your elaborating on the question I asked. The examples you further elaborated seemed to be different from what I rewrote. Could you please help me with my rewritten part?


> aa. 바닷물로 소금을 만듭니다.
> bb. 의자는 유리로 만듭니다.
> cc. 디저트는 바나나로 만듭니다.



Thank you so much for your help!

goophy


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