# albeit



## lili26

*Moderator note*: multiple threads merged to create this one.

Nouveau mot qui me pose problème.... si quelqu'un peu m'aider.  La phrase c'est une parenthèse: 

(*albeit  * stimulated by current Western Concerns with macroeconomic development and the impact of population growth on natural resources)

merci d'avance.


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## Login

Hello Lili,

Have a look here : http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=albeit

Main Entry: *al·be·it*
Pronunciation: ol-'bE-&t, al-
Function: _conjunction_
Etymology: Middle English, literally, all though it be *:* conceding the fact that *:* even though


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## Benjy

c'est un mot qui implique une opposition.. un peu comme bien que/alors que.. pa capable de vous donner une explication plus clair que celle-la :/ desolé


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## Tobycek

Moi je le traduirais ici comme "bien que ce soit/bien qu'il soit/bien qu'ils soient" etc

C'est un mot plus ou moins formel, mais souvent utilisé en anglais écrit.


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## stevenality

Here is an example of how it might be used in everyday speech:

"I have decided to buy a new car, albeit reluctantly."

Although it is a formal expression, you do come across it from time to time.

A more colloquial way of rendering the example I gave you might be:

"I have decided to buy a new car, though somewhat reluctanctly."

Hope this helps!


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## Thomas Keyes

It´s humorous or pedantic rather than formal.


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## fetchezlavache

pedantic ? i use it often when i speak english.. i mean, often-ish... i'm surprised by what you say.


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## RTB

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> pedantic ? i use it often when i speak english.. i mean, often-ish... i'm surprised by what you say.


 I agree.  It's not considered pedantic or particularly formal and is a common feature of everyday speech - in England at any rate.

 -RTB


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## Thomas Keyes

Here it is from the horse's mouth:

_Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–).  The Columbia Guide to Standard American English.  1993. 
albeit (conj.) - means “although, but”: He was still a handsome man, albeit a bit past his prime. Albeit (pronounced awl-BEE-it) may seem slightly stiff in some Informal contexts.  [...]_ 

PS from Thomas: Even in a formal context, it would be reckoned odd.   Suppose a textbook had the following sentence:
As a conductor of electricity, copper is superior to aluminum, albeit heavier and more expensive.
This would elicit a chuckle in a high-school or college classroom.  Someone would say "Albeit??!!"


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## Benjy

Thomas Keyes said:
			
		

> Reference > Usage > The Columbia Guide to Standard American English



evil american english... 

i dont think its pedantic.. i'd say humerous often.. i suppose it could come across pedantic though *sigh* communication, so little of it is verbal


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## Beverly

Albeit = although; even if (which is more commonly used) 
I think you had some good answers!
Happy New Year!


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## PPP

I wish to say:
The film's plot is simple and straightforward, albeit enacted by skilled actors (in particular the performance of Mr. X).
 
I am not sure about the translation of ALBEIT as WR and the sample thread give varying examples.
 
L’intrigue du filmest simple et directe, bien que jouée par des acteurs de cinéma talentueux (en particulier l’intérpretation de M.X).


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## Agnès E.

Your sentence is fine, I would just move the part concerned by the _bien que_.

*L'intrigue du film, bien que jouée par des acteurs..., est simple et directe.*

Mmmm... thinking of it, are you sure that _une intrigue_ can be _jouée_ ? (if you see what I mean  )

Perhaps the sense would be better like that:

*Le film, bien que joué par des acteurs..., possède une intrigue simple et directe.*

What do you think?


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## DameLaine

Je propose ceci:

*L'intrigue du film, bien qu'incarnée par des acteurs..., est simple et directe.

*mais je me demande moi aussi si une intrigue peut être incarnée??


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## PPP

Thanks very much for both of your suggestions.  I will change the sentence around and use "incarnee"-- perfect.


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## panzemeyer

In my view, the suggested translations don't really convey the opposition that is meant by "albeit". Here's my (very interpretative) translation: 

Ce film est servi par des acteurs au jeu très subtile / élaboré. Son intrigue n'en est pas moins simple et directe.


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## Gil

Un film servi par des acteurs d'expérience peut avoir toutes sortes d'intrigues.  La logique de cet "albeit" m'échappe complètement.


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## PPP

The context is simply a brief overall critical remark to a friend about a recently-viewed film-- perhaps this is better:
 
 
 
Le film_,_bien qu’incarné par des acteurs talentueux (en particulier l’interprétation notable de Sami Bouajila),_possède une intrigue_ simple et directe.


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## watergirl

Gil said:


> La logique de cet "albeit" m'échappe complètement.



Gil, je dirais:  "even though" or "even if" pour "albeit"  -- does that make a difference in your understanding?  i.e.   même si l'intrigue est simple (peu nuancée, ayant peu d'intérêt, etc.) les acteurs donnent des performances nuancées.  
(I'm not sure you can say that in French, so I'm not proposing it as a translation, just as another explanation..)
Also, I'd second the thought that the sentence in  English sounds weird to me too.  Do actors really "enact" a plot?


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## Gil

Merci.  I get it.  It's just that "simple and direct" did not seem pejorative.


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## panzemeyer

PPP said:


> The context is simply a brief overall critical remark to a friend about a recently-viewed film-- perhaps this is better:
> 
> 
> 
> Le film_,_bien qu’incarné par des acteurs talentueux (en particulier l’interprétation notable de Sami Bouajila),_possède une intrigue_ simple et directe.


By using "talentueux", you aren't stressing the opposition with "simple et directe". As a result, "bien que" sounds out of place (I agree your suggestion is a correct litteral translation of the English sentence though).


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## PPP

Gil and others:  is there a way to refer to the "simple and straightforward" plot in a way that is more perjorative, which is actually the sense I wanted (i.e. it's almost too simplistic and obvious).  Thank you!


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## Gil

Ma suggestion:
simpliste


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## PPP

thank you!


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## damson rhee

Hi all. This is my first post so bear with me.

I'm trying to find a way to use the word albeit in a part of this sentence. In English, "Mao Zedong's revolutionary, albeit poorly executed, plans..."

My attempt, "Ses plans révolutionnaires, tandis que mal exécutés..."

Any suggestions?


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## SwissPete

Welcome to the forum!

*même* que mal ...


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## moe0204

SwissPete said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> *même* que mal ...



*bien* que mal exécutés... = même que mal exécutés...

On préfèrera d'ailleurs : _quoique mal..., bien que mal..._


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## Joelline

[...] I agree with moe0204, I like "quoique" in this context.


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## SwissPete

Joelline said:


> I agree with moe0204, I like "quoique" in this context.


 
And I  with both, despite what I suggested earlier  .


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## LARSAY

As a purist, I prefer _bien que _to avoid the "coua-coua" of _*qu*oi*qu*e_


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## damson rhee

What does quoique mean? Does it have the same meaning as bien que in this context?


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## Joelline

Both "bien que" and "quoique" are the equivalents of "albeit" that you asked about in your first question!  They mean "although" or "though."


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## moe0204

I think in this case _quoique _is even better, but yes, as Joelline said, _bien que_ = _quoique_.


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## wildan1

personally I think you are better off using _although_ rather than _albeit_ for this in English. _Albeit_ is stilted and _although_ is perfectly fine and more widely understood anyway.


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## wildan1

Thomas Keyes said:


> Here it is from the horse's mouth.
> 
> Reference > Usage > The Columbia Guide to Standard American English
> 
> CONTENTS · BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD
> 
> Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.
> 
> PS from Thomas: Even in a formal context, it would be reckoned odd. Suppose a textbook had the following sentence:
> As a conductor of electricity, copper is superior to aluminum, albeit heavier and more expensive. This would elicit a chuckle in a high-school or college classroom. Someone would say "Albeit??!!"


 
Thomas, I believe Mr. Wilson (who was 70 when he published the book you cite, and is now well into his 80s if still alive) is out of touch with contemporary spoken AE. _Albeit_ is used regularly in writing, and not infrequently in careful spoken English (but does not at all come across as "precious").

I attend a large US state university, and have never heard any student chuckle at _albeit _when either the professor or another student used it.

Language usage evolves, as we all know. Maybe Mr. Wilson missed the boat on this one!

PS - I often hear French speakers use _quoique + adjective_ in similar phrases

_The restaurant, albeit lovely, was a bit expensive_

_Quoique beau, le restaurant était un peu cher._


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## Thomas Keyes

I can't imagine asking a policeman if buses run along a certain street, and having him answer, "Yes, buses run here, albeit infrequently." I think he'd probably say, "Yes, buses run here, but they don't run very often." That's the difference between attending a large university and being out in the real world.


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## wildan1

Thomas Keyes said:


> I can't imagine asking a policeman if buses run along a certain street, and having him answer, "Yes, buses run here, albeit infrequently." I think he'd probably say, "Yes, buses run here, but they don't run very often." That's the difference between attending a large university and being out in the real world.


 
That wasn't the context I was speaking about, Thomas Keyes. 

Your post #9 suggested that this word wouldn't be comfortably used in classrooms in the U.S.--but it is. Frequently!


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## Thomas Keyes

I think a typical textbook would say, "Copper is a better conductor than aluminum, *although* heavier and more expensive."  *Albeit *would sound stilted and old-fashined.  I can't believe that you've heard the word so many times in classrooms that you can generalize so glibly.  If you said *albeit *in South Central Los Angeles, they'd laugh and mock you.


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## Areyou Crazy

i use albeit all the time and I am not exactly from the English aristocracy, it wouldn't be used in a scentific text because it's used by someone who is conceding something and wouldn't apply.

[...]


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## wildan1

Thomas Keyes said:


> I think a typical textbook would say, "Copper is a better conductor than aluminum, *although* heavier and more expensive." *Albeit *would sound stilted and old-fashined. I can't believe that you've heard the word so many times in classrooms that you can generalize so glibly. If you said *albeit *in South Central Los Angeles, they'd laugh and mock you.


 


> Thomas, I believe Mr. Wilson (who was 70 when he published the book you cite, and is now well into his 80s if still alive) is out of touch with contemporary spoken AE. _Albeit_ is used regularly in writing, and not infrequently in careful spoken English (but does not at all come across as "precious").


 
I stand by what I said before. You seem to be in South America where exposure to native speakers must be limited and selective. I am in a major public university attended by tens of thousands of students of a lot of ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds (not an elite institution) and this word would not be out of place--_among the college-educated._ 

I'm done. No more pissing matches!


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## orlando09

[...]

I think maybe the problem is you actually don't "albeit" it written down that often and it looks a bit unusual (you would expect it to be written "all be it" - and, I would say, it sometimes is). I think that used in speech it's slightly formal, but certainly not humourously so, in BE anyway.


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## emibou

I have some problems to translate the word albeit into french... According to the WR and the previous threads, it seems to mean the same as "although", but the use in this sentence seems weard to me.
The sentence is "They rather create an experience that is albeit unnamable and inchoate", talking about an artist's work.
Thanks for helping me


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## gillyfr

The whole phrase is extremely bizarre, and I would say that the word has been misused here.  It looks like they really meant to say "at the same time". What's the previous sentence?


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## emibou

That's what I thought too... The previous sentence is not related. The whole text is about an artist and his work, full of metaphors, not always easy to understand... Those artists would rather stick to their art and let the writers talk about it! 
Thanks for your answers though!


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## alisonp

gillyfr said:


> The whole phrase is extremely bizarre, and I would say that the word has been misused here.


 
Totally agree.


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## catwithnohat

My guess is that your phrase continues, something like "an experience that is albeit unnamable and inchoate, XXXXX."  

The XXXX would usually be something slightly contradictory, or different from what recedes it (here: unnameable and inchoate...."


"Albeit" does mean although.  It's a "corruption" of the old phrase "although it may be (that...) "   

I would translate as "quoique"


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## emibou

A different sentence begins after that. 
I think gillyfr and alisonp are right, the word must have been misused...


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## halfbeing

[...]

Now for the word in question. I came to this thread because I wanted to translate "albeit" into French for a perfectly serious message I am composing to a friend on Facebook – hardly a formal environment. Albeit is a word I feel comfortable using in both writing and speech, albeit in moderation. I use it when near synonyms, such as "but", do not offer sufficient clarity.


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