# For and because of you



## Balfazar

What a wonderful forum, I much enjoyed reading through various translations before posting my own which I hope might be translated.

I would like a translation of "For and because of you", as in something is possible because of a person, and it will be done for the sake of that person. The context is a memorial and tribute. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## jazyk

Te et tibi.

Wait for Scholiast's suggestion. He's very good at creating short Latin messages.


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## P2Grafn0l

_Te tibique.
_
-que is an enclitic that can be placed after the second word that you want to connect with the first one.
And this particular enclitic shows a close connection between the two words.
As one cannot do something for you, without (any memory of) you (and your sake).
Hence:

_Te tibique. _


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## jazyk

_Quia_ is a conjunction and, as such, requires a clause.


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## P2Grafn0l

You are right, Jazyk, so I edited #3.


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## P2Grafn0l

Here, I have another suggestion, which fits the context pretty well; 

_Tui causa tibique. _= For the sake of you and for you.


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## jazyk

Tua causa. Ablative feminine.


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## bearded

Hi
I would suggest:
_pro te et propter te.

jazyk: <tua causa>_
Not really.  I think ''tui causa'' is correct in Latin.  After the ablative 'causa', a genitive is required in order to express ''for the sake *of*...'' (example _amoris causa = _for the sake of love).  And 'tui' is genitive of tu (see here: DIZIONARIO LATINO).


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## jazyk

I see there are instances of tui causa, but I still prefer tua causa. With amoris there is no other option than the genitive.

My reluctance to accept tui causa has a reason, after all! Page 36 Syntax of the Latin Language

Guide for Writing Latin ...


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## bearded

You are right.


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## Balfazar

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Going by the phonetics and the translations provided I am favouring _Tua causa tibique. _Google translate suggested _quoniam propter vos_ so I was curious to see whether any replies would align with this, but didn't have much trust in Google given the highly contextual nature of the phrase.


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## jazyk

It translated _for_ as _quoniam, erroneously in this case, _because it interpreted _for_ as a conjunction (since, because), not as a preposition.


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## Scholiast

Greetings all round.


jazyk said:


> Wait for Scholiast's suggestion. He's very good at creating short Latin messages.


I am flattered—no irony. For an obituary or similar tribute, I would suggest (though a little pleonastic):
_tui gratia, tui causa_.​The OP (to whom, of course, a warm welcome to the Latin Forum) should under *no* circumstances look to Google translate for such things: it just cannot handle inflected languages. The Mark One human brain is much more intelligent!
Σ


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## jazyk

Tua gratia, tua causa, no? Look at the links above.


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## Scholiast

Holá! jazyk is right (# 14). I have just checked (in the _OLD_) and stand corrected. Thanks, Jazyk, for putting me right on this.

Σ


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## P2Grafn0l

jazyk said:


> My reluctance to accept tui causa has a reason, after all!



Salve(te), 
Jazyk (and anyone who stands with the first addressee). 
Are you saying that there's an error in _I Regum 21:29 _(The Vulgate)?  
_Mei causa_, I still don't believe I was that wrong for thinking of it as a grammatically correct expression.


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## jazyk

Maybe this explains it:
*
but deliberately translated the Bible into the style of Latin that was actually spoken and written by the majority of persons in his own time.* This kind of Latin is known as Vulgate Latin (meaning the Latin of the common people), and accordingly Jerome's translation is called the Vulgate.

Vulgate Latin is classical Latin in the first stages of evolving into such modern languages as Spanish, French, and Italian. It has begun the process of changing from an inflected language (in which words have various endings, or inflections, which are used to show the relation of the word to other words in the sentence) to a separate-word language like English (in which additional words, such as prepositions, are used, along with word order, to show the function of the word). *Thus, in classical Latin, "He spoke to me," is Dixit Mihi or Mihi Dixit, but in Vulgate Latin it is Dixit AD Me*.
Jerome, Scholar, Translator, and Theologian


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## Scholiast

Greetings all, especially jazyk


jazyk said:


> a separate-word language like English


He may care to know that the usual grammarians' term in English for such tongues (in contrast with 'inflected' languages) is 'prepositional'.
Σ


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## Snodv

Late jumping on the bandwagon, but I think "Pro te, propter te" would be nice too.


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## Scholiast

Scholiasta omnibus SPD


Snodv said:


> I think "Pro te, propter te" would be nice too.


As proposed by bearded in # 8.

I agree. It is rhetorically enhanced by the alliteration and assonance, with simultaneously the contrasting grammatical cases of _te_ and _te_—a bit of word-play of which Ovid (the Latin Oscar Wilde) would have been proud.

Σ


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