# Deponent verbs



## Agarina

It seems like there should be a passive form of certain deponent verbs, such as sequor, i.e. if you wanted to say, "He was followed by her."  I don't understand how you would express this in Latin if sequor has no passive form.


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## rainbowizard

Deponent verbs cannot be used in a passive form, so there are at least three alternatives to express a passive form:
1. use an active synonymous
2. turn the sentence into active form
3. adopt the passive form of verb _affĭcĭo, affĭcis, affeci, affectum, affĭcĕre _to build a periphrasis

E.g.

_I'm followed by my friends_ 

_Comites me sequuntur_ (turned into active)

or should be somthing like _(Ego)_ _afficior comitum secutu_ ...literally... "_I'm made able to be followed by (literally of) my friends"_
 Indeed I'm not absolutely sure of the sentence above...  please, wait also for someone else.


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## Agarina

Thanks!  I understand the first two suggestions, but what is a periphrasis?


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## rainbowizard

Agarina said:


> Thanks! I understand the first two suggestions, but what is a periphrasis?


 
It is a way to express a concept with a set of words different from the original intent. That is an indirect expression, or a circumlocution.


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## Agarina

Oh, I see.  Thanks again!


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## Anne345

rainbowizard said:


> 3. adopt the passive form of verb _affĭcĭo, affĭcis, affeci, affectum, affĭcĕre _to build a periphrasis
> 
> E.g.
> or should be somthing like _(Ego)_ _afficior comitum secutu_ ...literally... "_I'm made able to be followed by (literally of) my friends"_
> .


 
I never learned something about these uses of afficio and the supine in -ū. Why the genitive _comitum_ ? Do you have any reference for that ?


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## brian

"Sequor" indeed has _only_ passive forms but can never have passive meanings.
 The best way to say "He was followed by her" would be simply to say "She followed him," just as rainbowizard has pointed out:

_(Illa/Ea) eum sequebatur/est secuta._

The use of "afficior" seems really odd to me.  "Adficere" (as can be seen from the past participle _adfectus/affectus_) means "to affect someone, to do something to someone, etc." If anything, I would translate "Afficior comitum secutu" as "I am moved/affected (in)to the following of the friends," i.e. "I am made to follow the friends." I guess... but still a little strange.


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## wonderment

brian8733 said:


> _(Illa/Ea) eum sequebat/est secuta._


Forbidden. 



rainbowizard said:


> Deponent verbs cannot be used in a passive form, so there are at least three alternatives to express a passive form:
> 1. use an active synonymous
> 2. turn the sentence into active form
> 3. adopt the passive form of verb _aff?c?o, aff?cis, affeci, affectum, aff?c?re _to build a periphrasis



Wow, rainbowizard, #3 is really creative! I never would’ve thought of that. Is it legal? 

This is my parsing of the sentence:

_afficior comitum secutu_
I am affected in being followed by my friends.  
Or more literally: I’m affected in respect to the being followed of my friends. (Please shoot me if I ever start to write like this.)  

_Secutu_ is a supine, verbal noun in the ablative case (ablative of respect or specification). The construction must be similar to a common supine phrase: “_mirabile dictu_” (amazing to say, or amazing in the saying, or amazing in respect to saying). _Comitum_ is in the genitive case, subjective or descriptive genitive with _secutu_ (?) 

Is this close to what you intended? Maybe?


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## rainbowizard

wonderment said:


> Or more literally: I’m affected in respect to the being followed of my friends.


 
Yes, that was almost my intent... I remember something about in my (old) study... the sentence to be composed as:

Passive form of adficio + passive supine (as abl. of limitation) (+ genitive of specification)

Translated in Italian (my native tongue) _adficior secutu comitum_ should sound as _"Mi dispongo al seguito dei compagni"._

Nevertheless this form should not have been used very often (almost never as far as I know) and are largely preferred the #1 and #2 options I wrote above.

As soon as possible I'll meet a friend that teaches Latin and I'll ask him about this sentence


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## Lovelogue

Hi! I am seeking help with the deponent verbs. 

So, deponent verbs are passive in form, but active in meaning.
like _te sequor_ "I follow you”.

How do I say "you are followed" in Latin then? Is it even possible to express that with the same verb?

My grammar book tells me that _sequendus_ is passive in meaning, which sounds like no other form is passive in meaning! 

Thanks in advance!! 

PS. I read also that deponent verbs sometimes have passive meaning in the Perfect Passive Participle, e.g. adeptus “attained”. How often do they do then? 

<< This thread has been joined to another dealing with the same puzzle. Please read from the top.  >>


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## CapnPrep

For your questions about the participles, see the following thread:
Passive Participles of Deponent Verbs


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## Lovelogue

Thanks to CapnPrep, that helps a lot!


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## Lovelogue

So, nothing parallel to "you are followed". Is it that the best I can do is _aliquis te sequitur_?


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## exgerman

You can always paraphrase with a noun: _secutorem/secutricem habes_ you have a pursuer.


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## XiaoRoel

Unas posibilidades:

Illa me persecuta est. Illa me insectat. 

(Ego) ab illa exagitatus/uexatus/instatus sum.


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## Lovelogue

exgerman said:


> You can always paraphrase with a noun: _secutorem/secutricem habes_ you have a pursuer.


Well, my _secutor _might be on his holiday and not currently behind me, right?  There has to be something like a verb that explicitly depicts the state of being followed.


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## Lovelogue

Oh I just duplicated the post by mistake. Ok, I'll just edit it.

In China, we say “把尾巴甩掉”,  literally  "to get rid of the tail/tails". “尾巴” or tail/tails in Chinese could be understood as people that is/are currently following someone. I don't know if _secutor _can be used the same way, without ambiguity like I suppose it has in my previous post.


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## Lovelogue

XiaoRoel said:


> (Ego) ab illa exagitatus/uexatus/instatus sum.



Thanks, but these words don't seem right, in any sense of following. And I guess _insto lacks the passive participle._


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## 涼宮

*New question* added to existing thread. 
<< Please *respond to this question* after reading posts above.  
Cagey, moderator. >>


Hello!

I'm reading about the deponent verbs in Latin and I have a doubt about them. Deponent verbs don't have an active form, you always use them in the passive form but their meaning is active; unless we use passive deponents. How do I do if I want to use them with a passive meaning? Does using their passive form can also render a passive/impersonal meaning depending on context or do I have to use something else? For example with verbs like loquor, hortor, sequor, solor.

For example:

Loquitur latine in Roma/in Roma latine loquitur

I'm told that... loquor...

Does the first sentence only mean she/he speaks Latin in Rome or can it also mean Latin is spoken in Rome (on parle latin/se habla latín)?

Thanks in advance!


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## jrundin

"loquitur" means "he (or she or it) speaks."  It cannot mean "it is spoken."

By the way, "latine" is not a noun. It is an adverb. In Latin, one speaks "Latinly" = 
"in the Latin style." By the logic of Latin, you cannot speak Latin or English or 
any other language. That would mean you opened your mouth and the entire language
--vocabulary, grammar, and so--on came tumbling out. Instead one must speak 
Latinly or Englishly--that is, in the style of Latin or English. "Anglice loquor" =
"I speak English" ("Englishly").

"Latine loquitur" means "he (she, it) speaks Latin" ("Latinly"). It cannot have 
a passive meaning.

(And the usual expression for "in Rome" is "Romae" (that's called a locative form).


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## 涼宮

Thank you. I read the whole thread but then, is there not a way to express an impersonal meaning with the verb loquere? to express that Latin is spoken in Rome. If it's not possible I guess you'd use the verb dicere instead, right?


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## Hamlet2508

Romae Latine loquuntur (they (undefined) speak Latin in Rome)


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