# Urdu: apna/apni vs. meri/mera



## Darraptor

I know apna/apni means mine/own and mera/meri means my but those meaning mean the same to me. Lets use an example sentence. I want to say I was playing with my cat. I know this sentence is wrong but this is my attempt. Main ne mera billko khelna kiya ta. I is the subject and we add the ne part because play is a transitive verb(I think) and mera billoko refers to my cat. The ko signifies that cat is the indirect object. I really didnt know how to conjugate the verb play so I used its original form khelna and just added the kiya ta to say I was playing. However I was also thinking could I also make this sentence with apna. I was thinking Main ne apna billko kelna kiya ta(I just switched mera with apna) but I know this sounds wrong. I think we don't use ne if we're using apna. Could someone try explaining whether or not each of my sentences are right with the reason and then creating two new sentences using mera and apna respectively?


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## tonyspeed

main ne apni billii ke saath khelaa


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## Darraptor

tonyspeed said:


> main ne apni billii ke saath khelaa



How come you didn't add ta at the end? I thought adding the ta signifies that its in the past tense (i.e main ne kiya ta)


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## Kahaani

Darraptor said:


> How come you didn't add ta at the end? I thought adding the ta signifies that its in the past tense (i.e main ne kiya ta)



_MaiN ne khelaa_ = I played
_MaiN ne khelaa thaa_ = I had played

The sentence of your original post: _Main ne apna billko kelna kiya ta = _I had done my cat playing. You play with your cat so you use_ billii ke saath_ instead of _billii ko_. Furthermore  _khelnaa_ is already a verb so there's no need for _karnaa_, so you should conjugate _khelnaa_ instead and leave out_ karnaa_. Then you could have used either _khelaa thaa_ or just _khelaa_, both would be fine. And finally you need to know that _billii_ is feminine so you use _apnii_ instead of _apnaa_.  It's quite a difficult sentence.

Regarding _apnaa_ versus _meraa_, I've found out it's a bit tricky. When the subject of the sentence is the same person who 'possesses' the object in the sentence, you use _apnaa_.

_Voh apne kamre meN gayaa_ = He went into his own room.
_Voh mere kamre men gayaa_ = He went into my room.

This means that you mostly use _apnaa_ in sentences when you're speaking about yourself.

_MaiN apnaa panee peetaa hooN_ = I drink my own water.

I'm not sure if, and when you'd say _MaiN meraa panee peetaa hooN_. It does sound a bit strange.


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## Darraptor

Kahaani said:


> _MaiN ne khelaa_ = I played
> _MaiN ne khelaa thaa_ = I had played
> 
> The sentence of your original post: _Main ne apna billko kelna kiya ta = _I had done my cat playing. You play with your cat so you use_ billii ke saath_ instead of _billii ko_. Furthermore  _khelnaa_ is already a verb so there's no need for _karnaa_, so you should conjugate _khelnaa_ instead and leave out_ karnaa_. Then you could have used either _khelaa thaa_ or just _khelaa_, both would be fine. And finally you need to know that _billii_ is feminine so you use _apnii_ instead of _apnaa_.  It's quite a difficult sentence.
> 
> Regarding _apnaa_ versus _meraa_, I've found out it's a bit tricky. When the subject of the sentence is the same person who 'possesses' the object in the sentence, you use _apnaa_.
> 
> _Voh apne kamre meN gayaa_ = He went into his own room.
> _Voh mere kamre men gayaa_ = He went into my room.
> 
> This means that you mostly use _apnaa_ in sentences when you're speaking about yourself.
> 
> _MaiN apnaa panee peetaa hooN_ = I drink my own water.
> 
> I'm not sure if, and when you'd say _MaiN meraa panee peetaa hooN_. It does sound a bit strange.



Then why do we even need mera if we have apnaa? I also agree that Main meraa panee peetaa hoon sounds strange


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## tonyspeed

_apnaa/apnii/apne_ are only used when referring to a *1) previously mentioned subject *within *2) the same sentence clause*. _/apnaa_/ cannot be used as part of a subject because of rule 1. Therefore, _apnii kitaab baRi hai_ is wrong. Neither can you say _maiN jaantii huuN ki apnii kitaab Gaaib hai_ because of rule 2. /_apnaa_/ can be used in commands because the subject is implicitly defined: i.e _apnii kitaab paRho . _The subject _/tum/_ is implicitly defined. If it does not follow 1 and 2, it is better to use _meraa/merii/mere_ as this is the standard usage.

I have come across some strange exceptions that make me cringe when I hear it a bit. There is a store in the USA called Apnaa Baazaar. Maybe a native speaker might chime in here.


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## Darraptor

tonyspeed said:


> _apnaa/apnii/apne_ are only used when referring to a *1) previously mentioned subject *within *2) the same sentence clause*. _/apnaa_/ cannot be used as part of a subject because of rule 1. Therefore, _apnii kitaab baRi hai_ is wrong. Neither can you say _maiN jaantii huuN ki apnii kitaab Gaaib hai_ because of rule 2. /_apnaa_/ can be used in commands because the subject is implicitly defined: i.e _apnii kitaab paRho . _The subject _/tum/_ is implicitly defined. If it does not follow 1 and 2, it is better to use _meraa/merii/mere_ as this is the standard usage.
> 
> I have come across some strange exceptions that make me cringe when I hear it a bit. There is a store in the USA called Apnaa Baazaar. Maybe a native speaker might chime in here.



Random question but is it possible for the subject to appear at the end of a sentence? Like for instance Mujhe dost ki zarrorat hai? where zaroorat is the subject.  Also I know Apnaa Baazaar I've been there a few times before


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## Dib

tonyspeed said:


> I have come across some strange exceptions that make me cringe when I hear it a bit. There is a store in the USA called Apnaa Baazaar. Maybe a native speaker might chime in here.



Here it means "(our/your) Own Market". "apnaa" etymologically means "own", and it still largely retains that sense. There is also the beautiful word "apnaa-pan" - "(the sense of) belonging (together)". And of course, "apnaanaa" - adopt, i.e. making one's own.


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## littlepond

tonyspeed said:


> Therefore, _apnii kitaab baRi hai_ is wrong. Neither can you say _maiN jaantii huuN ki apnii kitaab Gaaib hai_ because of rule 2.



These were wrong assertions. Both sentences are fine, where "apnii" is meaning "our." *

And on a side note, there is no "maiN ne billii ke saath khelaa" (earlier in the thread): it's "maiN billii ke saath khelaa"! (BUT "maiN ne krikiT/krikeT khelaa.")

* Note that, given a right context, "apnii" can mean "my" or "mine." One is as likely to say "apnii to samajh meN nahiiN aataa ..." as "merii to samajh meN nahiiN aataa ..."


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## MonsieurGonzalito

littlepond said:


> "apnii to samajh meN nahiiN aataa ..." as "merii to samajh meN nahiiN aataa ..."


What does this mean? 
I know that_ samajh meN aanaa _means "to understand", but what is the rest?


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## Sheikh_14

^They are two ways of saying it's beyond my comprehension. It ought to be aatii though since samajh is feminine 🤷‍♂️.


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## littlepond

Sheikh_14 said:


> ^They are two ways of saying it's beyond my comprehension. It ought to be aatii though since samajh is feminine 🤷‍♂️.



No. "aatii" would be wrong: it does not change with the feminine "samajh."


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Thanks!



Sheikh_14 said:


> It ought to be aatii


Well, not necessarily, right?
_samajh _is "where" "it doesn't come".
But whether or not it is feminine would depend of "the thing not understood", I think.

_vah vazahat apnii samajh meN nahiiN aatii
vah istidlaal apnii samajh meN nahiiN aataa_


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## Qureshpor

Here is a previous thread that may be of help.

Urdu: "Poetic Licence" for apnaa

As the title of the thread is Urdu only, "vah" is no longer applicable to Urdu.


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## littlepond

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Well, not necessarily, right?
> _samajh _is "where" "it doesn't come".



No, there's a "yeh" (and "men") that's elided. "apnii to samajh (meN) (yeh) nahiiN aataa ki ..."

"apnii to samajh nahiiN aatii" is not very idiomatic (though possible).

Of course, if "aanaa" were to be with "samajh," which is not the case here, it would be "aatii": for example, "us ko samajh hii nahiiN aatii ki aisaa karnaa yahaaN manaa hai." This could, of course, again be "us ko samajh meN hii nahiiN aataa ki ..."


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## MonsieurGonzalito

littlepond said:


> No, there's a "yeh" (and "men") that's elided. "apnii to samajh (meN) (yeh) nahiiN aataa ki ..."


Still, the subject (be it _yeh _or something more specific) is what doesn't reach the _samajh_, an it is what determines the verb gender_ aataa/aatii_ .


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## littlepond

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Still, the subject (be it _yeh _or something more specific) is what doesn't reach the _samajh_, an it is what determines the verb gender_ aataa/aatii_ .



How can "yeh" be feminine ever? It's a neutral (abstract) word, equivalent to the English word "it." Or something like the "il" in "il fait beau" or "il est trop tard" of French (not to be confused with the masculine gender denoting "il").

"apnii to samajh meN yeh nahiiN aataa ki ..." literally means "*It* does not come in my understanding that ..."


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## MonsieurGonzalito

littlepond said:


> "apnii to samajh meN yeh nahiiN aataa ki ..." literally means "*It* does not come in my understanding that ..."


OK. If there is no clear object, yes, _aataa _would be some "generically masculine" _yeh_.

But what if there is, like the example I gave in #13?  "[X]  doesn't come to my understanding"  (X being feminine)?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

For example: "You have made a new clarification. This one, I am not understanding"

_tum mujhe naii safaaii die ho. *yeh *apnii samajh meN nahiiN aa rahii  hai_

Wouldn't _yeh _be feminine there?


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## littlepond

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> But what if there is, like the example I gave in #13?  "[X]  doesn't come to my understanding"  (X being feminine)?



See my post 15 again.



MonsieurGonzalito said:


> For example: "You have made a new clarification. This one, I am not understanding"
> 
> _tum mujhe naii safaaii die ho. *yeh *apnii samajh meN nahiiN aa rahii  hai_
> 
> Wouldn't _yeh _be feminine there?



There is no feminine standalone "yeh" in the language! "yeh apnii samajh meN nahiiN aa rahaa hai" always. You are confusing with adjectival (demonstrative?) "yeh": "yeh baat apnii samajh meN nahiiN aa rahii hai."


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## aevynn

littlepond said:


> Of course, if "aanaa" were to be with "samajh," which is not the case here, it would be "aatii": for example, "us ko samajh hii nahiiN aatii ki aisaa karnaa yahaaN manaa hai."


I think both verb phrases _samajh aanaa_ and _samajh meN aanaa_ (roughly meaning "to understand") agree with the gender/number of the thing that is being understood and the gender of _samajh_ is irrelevant for either of these constructions (at least for me).

mujhe ye(h) baat samajh nahiiN aa'ii.​mujhe ye(h) baateN samajh nahiiN aa'iiN.​mujhe in sab baatoN kaa matlab samajh nahiiN aayaa.​mujhe panjaabii samajh nahiiN aatii.​mujhe ye lafz/shabd (sg) samajh nahiiN aayaa.​mujhe ye lafz/shabd (pl) samajh nahiiN aa'e.​
In other words, I think the reason for the feminine _aatii_ in 

us ko samajh hii nahiiN aatii ki(h) aisaa karnaa yahaaN mana3(/manaa) hai.​
is because of a tacit _ye baat_ (or something similar) acting as as the subject of the matrix clause (whose "antecedent" is the complement beginning with _ki(h)_), not because the verb is agreeing with _samajh_. This is demonstrated by the fact that using "default masculine" agreement in the above sentence also sounds just fine (again, at least to me...): 

us ko samajh hii nahiiN aataa ki(h) aisaa karnaa yahaaN mana3(/manaa) hai.​
*BUT*

There are in fact sentences where the noun _samajh_ (meaning something like intelligence, wisdom, maturity, etc) is itself the subject of _aanaa_, like: 

ikattiis saal kaa ho gayaa hai. samajh kab aa'e gii tujhe?​You're already 31 years old. When will you grow up?​​Note that here, _samajh aanaa_ doesn't mean "to understand" (like above) but rather something vaguely like "to gain intelligence/wisdom/maturity."


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## MonsieurGonzalito

littlepond said:


> There is no feminine standalone "yeh" in the language! "yeh apnii samajh meN nahiiN aa rahaa hai" always. You are confusing with adjectival (demonstrative?) "yeh":


This is a really fine and interesting distinction to make!

Are you saying that native speakers never perceive a _vah_  as _"That (distal) one"_ but always as _"he/she (who happens to be somewhat distant, or not)"_?
That the phrase. "We have two villages, *this one* seems bigger than *that one*" is not translated as "_*yah usse *baRaa dikhaataa hai"_?


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## littlepond

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Are you saying that native speakers never perceive a _vah_  as _"That (distal) one"_ but always as _"he/she (who happens to be somewhat distant, or not)"_?
> That the phrase. "We have two villages, *this one* seems bigger than *that one*" is not translated as "_*yah usse *baRaa dikhaataa hai"_?



I am not understanding your question or the logic behind it. Could you please ask in a different way? (And maybe in a new thread, for whatever is on your mind seems to go off topic to this thread.) Where do he/she come in the picture? A word being masculine or feminine in grammatical gender has little to do with he or she. And there do exist standalone "yeh" or "veh/voh" (the latter is rarely used as a standalone, neutral item), which are different from "yeh X" and "veh/voh X" (with or without elided X).

In the sentence "voh jaa rahaa hai," "voh" can have two distinct meanings: "voh" as in "he" OR "voh" as a neutral, abstract word to depict the state of things (in English, "there" is used in such a case). That is, "voh jaa rahaa hai" can be translated as "He is going" OR "There he goes" (with the "he" part in this latter case being simply elided in the Hindi sentence, which could have been "voh Ramesh jaa rahaa hai," for example).

Meanwhile, it should be "_y*e*h us se baRaa *dikhtaa *hai" _("yah" if you are a Bihari kind of speaker).


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