# Tender Mercies



## akhooha

What would be the best MSA translation for the film title "Tender Mercies"?
مراحم حنونة؟
رحمة رحيمة؟
رحمة بالغة؟
or something else entirely?
Thank you.


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## Arabic Guru

ما قصة الفيلم؟
حتى نساعدك بإيجاد عنوان مناسب له


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## akhooha

There are many sub-plots to the story, but I think the main one is just about a former alcoholic musician who  finds peace and redemption through the love of an unselfish woman. Note: there might be an underlying religious reference in the title, as the phrase "tender mercies" shows up in the Bible a few times:
(1) Let Your tender mercies come to me, that I may live; For Your law is my delight.   Psalms 119:77
which gets translated as:
لِتَأْتِنِي مَرَاحِمُكَ فَأَحْيَا لأَنَّ شَرِيعَتَكَ هِيَ لَذَّتِي.   مزامير 119 : 77

(2) Do not withhold Your tender mercies from me, O Lord...Psalms 40:11
which gets translated as:
أَمَّا أَنْتَ يَا رَبُّ فَلاَ تَمْنَعْ رَأْفَتَكَ عَنِّي. مزامير 40 : 11

(3) Great are Your tender mercies, O Lord; Psalms 119:156
which gets translated as:
كَثِيرَةٌ هِيَ مَرَاحِمُكَ يَا رَبُّ. مزامير 119 : 156

أشكرك على المساعدة


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## كلمات

There is an empty entry on this website that translates this title as رحمة العطاء. On Arabic Wikipedia it's called رحمة بالغة.


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## akhooha

كلمات said:


> There is an empty entry on this website that translates this title as رحمة العطاء. On Arabic Wikipedia it's called رحمة بالغة.


I think رحمة العطاء is a totally misguided translation, as the word العطاء, while certainly meaning "tender", means "tender" in the context of a "bid" or an "offer" and has nothing to do with the adjective "tender".
Likewise, بالغة also misses the point of "tender". I understand بالغة to mean "strong",  "intense", "serious", etc.  "Tender" should mean "gentle", "soft-hearted", "loving" which I think would be more on the order of a word like "حنونة" (if I'm correctly interpreting "حنونة").


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## إسكندراني

Many film titles are not translated literally.


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## akhooha

إسكندراني said:


> Many film titles are not translated literally.


Yes, I've found that to be true.  But, for the sake of discussion, what would you propose for a translation of this film title? Or do you find it, for some reason, to be untranslatable?


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## Arabic Guru

انظر هنا للاستزداة من المعاني 

ربما تصلح هذه العناوين

ال/
رحمات معطاة
رحمات ناعمة
رحمات رقيقة

وليس بالضرورة ترجمتها حرفياً، استخدم المعنى المجازي

Good luck


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## إسكندراني

Literally it's as you quoted from the Bible, المراحم


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## akhooha

Thank you, Arabic Guru, إسكندراني, and كلمات.
It would seem to me that the best choices would be either "رحمات ناعمة" or 
"مراحم ناعمة".
I think "ناعمة" is closest in meaning to "tender" in this context.
Is there any significant difference between "مراحم" and "رحمات"?


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## إسكندراني

Tender 
لا تعني ناعمة
بل تعني ودودة أو دافئة
أو فيها حب وعاطفة
Soft
 تعني ناعمة
وتبدو غريبة هنا بالنسبة لي


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## كلمات

العطاء doesn't mean tender and it seems to be in line with the "alcoholic musician who  finds peace and redemption through the love of an unselfish woman" plot. You also mentioned that you were open for "something else entirely". Like Iskandrani wrote, films usually get different titles, not necessarily just translated titles, to be able to be marketed and sold to different cultures. It's not just in the Middle East, but it happens in Europe as well, if not all over the world. Same when foreign films get different titles when released in English speaking countries. 

Anyway I agree with Iska, and I'd say رقيقة is better for tender than ناعمة.


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## akhooha

إسكندراني said:


> Tender
> لا تعني ناعمة
> بل تعني ودودة أو دافئة
> أو فيها حب وعاطفة
> Soft
> تعني ناعمة
> وتبدو غريبة هنا بالنسبة لي


See Hans Wehr, page 1150: http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=1163,ll=2...1092,ums=923,umj=857,ulq=1691,uqa=427,uqq=401
View attachment 13168


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## akhooha

كلمات said:


> العطاء doesn't mean tender and it seems to be in line with the "alcoholic musician who  finds peace and redemption through the love of an unselfish woman" plot. You also mentioned that you were open for "something else entirely". Like Iskandrani wrote, films usually get different titles, not necessarily just translated titles, to be able to be marketed and sold to different cultures. It's not just in the Middle East, but it happens in Europe as well, if not all over the world. Same when foreign films get different titles when released in English speaking countries.
> 
> Anyway I agree with Iska, and I'd say رقيقة is better for tender than ناعمة.


Thanks very much.  I really wasn't interested in an alternative title in terms of marketing or in terms of what sounds good, as I'm not contemplating releasing an Arabic version of the film.  I was merely interested in purely translational terms ---- what is the closest in meaning? 
رقيقة may well be closer in meaning to "tender" than "ناعمة" ... I think it's a toss-up.
What about any differences between "رحمات" and "مراحم" --- are they synonymous?
Thank you
وشكرًا على المساعدة


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## كلمات

It's not really a toss-up. Even if tender means ناعم in a dictionary, it doesn't mean that it is the right word to use all the time. For example you can't translate "tender meat" to لحم ناعم. It will mean something completely different. It won't mean that the meat is soft to chew but that it is soft to touch. Thus it has to do with the other word that is defined as tender.  ناعم has been _mostly_ associated with the sense of touch. In this case, it's mercy and ناعم just doesn't work to carry the original meaning. As for the plural of رحمة, I'm not sure, maybe رحمات can be understood better to the listener. رحمة is usually used in its singular form.


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## akhooha

OK. you've convinced me that رقيقة would be better than ناعمة.
But, just out of curiosity, how would you translate the phrase الجنس الناعم?
Thank you for your advice on رحمات.  I take it that مراحم is fairly obscure and not much used? 
Note: You've mentioned that رحمة is usually used in its singular form --- the same is true of "mercy" in English.  When it is used in its plural form (mercies), it has more the meaning of "_acts of _mercy" ...
 Thank you.


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## cherine

How about the word رأفة ? It carries both the meaning of tenderness and mercy.
In Hans Wehr, it is: mercy, compassion, pity; kindliness, graciousness.

The plural would probably be رأفات but I've never heard it or seen it before. So, how about أشكال من الرأفة or مواقف من الرأفة ?


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## Lark-lover

رحمات واسعة


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## إسكندراني

واسع ~ far reaching
رحمات رؤوفة


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## akhooha

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.  It's intriguing that there seem to be such a number of alternatives. I must say that I like Iskandarani's latest suggestion of رحمات رؤوفة which combines Cherine's suggestion of the use of رأفة.
I'd contemplated رحمات رحيمة but rejected it because رحيمة was too close to رحمات.
I think رحمات رؤوفة conveys the same idea, but maintains the separateness of the two words.


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