# Salutation in email to an unknown person



## Moroz

Hallo everybody,

I am trying to find a way how to greet an unknown person in an e-mail, if I don't want to be too formal and use Dear Sir, but in the same time stay polite.

Thank you in advance!


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## Sharifa345

To Whom It May Concern:
is one option


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## Moroz

Sharifa345 said:


> To Whom It May Concern:
> is one option


 
Isn't it even more official and formal than a "Dear Sir"?


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## Sharifa345

Moroz said:


> Isn't it even more official and formal than a "Dear Sir"?



Hmm.. Maybe, or slightly different. What is the content of the rest of the letter? What is it for?


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## Moroz

It just contains a number of questions concerning the software to the company which makes after-sales services, but I was trying to use very simple words (except for the special terms), just to avoid mistakes as the topic is not really familiar to me. That is why the greeting should be polite but not very formal otherwise the difference between the greeting and the text itself will be comic.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

How about "To our Customers:"


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## Mutti57

Sorry, but who is writing to whom? Are you the after-sales service? I can't understand the subject you are writing to...


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## Parla

I have the impression that you are the customer, and you are writing to the company to ask questions about the software you have purchased. If I'm right: "Dear Sir" assumes that your e-mail (I assume that's what you're sending) will reach a _man_, which is not necessarily so. Most software companies call their after-sales customer service "support" and have a group of people assigned to provide that service. Speaking for myself, I'd start with *Dear Support Staff*.


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## Zen_Dyzaster

Wouldn't it be simpler and more direct just to write, "Dear (insert company name)"?


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## Parla

Addressing a department makes it easier for whoever opens the e-mail to direct it to the proper people (companies get a lot of mail). That will probably get you a faster answer, as well.


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## Moroz

Parla, thank you! You were right- we are the customers  I have written "Dear support staff".


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## pob14

If I don't have a name or title, I use "Ladies and Gentlemen:".


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## brian

If I can't think of anything good in 5 or 7 seconds, I just use "Hello".

Parla makes a good point, but at the same time companies generally have special email addresses for each department, e.g. support@ourcompany.com, in which case I'm even more likely to use "Hello".


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## abenr

I think E-mail etiquette does not call for a "Dear Sir" or its equivalent, but to direct your post to a specific department or person, you could use *To* and the department name or person's name.


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## sendintheclowns

We always used to write "Dear Sir/Madam" for letters, but for an email that does seem a little too formal.

"To whom it my concern" is too impersonal. And "Ladies and gentlemen" sounds like you're giving a speech. 

I have seen "Dear:" but I think it looks strange. 

If you don't have a name of a person, I would probably go with "Hi," or just leave out the salutation altogether.


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## _Yanni_

I have often seen people use "Dear There" or "Hi There" or "Hello There".


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## farhad_persona

Let's say you want send an email to an internet company (Forzen company, for instance) and ask about their services. You don't know the name and the position of the person who will be reading your email. Is this how you'd start your email? :


Dear Forzen _staff member_, 

I am writing to ask you to..............................

If that's not the correct form, then how shall I start such letters?


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## Florentia52

The customary salutation is "To whom it may concern," but many people find that rather distant. I see nothing wrong with "Dear Forzen staff member."


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## dreamlike

For some reason, 'Dear Forzen staff member' sounds a bit childish to me. I'd simply begin my email with 'Dear Sir or Madam'.


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## Parla

I'd just address the company, and I don't find "Dear" necessary. I'd just start: "To the Forzen Company: I'm writing to ask about . . ." Whoever opens the e-mail will direct it to the proper person or department to answer your question. 

It will be helpful to the company, by the way, if you make your subject line very specific—not something like "a question" but "web design" or "red chairs" or whatever product or service you're asking about.


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## Al2O3

Its best to say 'Dear Sir/Madam' when you don't know the person you are addressing and if you use this, you have to end 'Yours Faithfully'.


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## Egmont

Al2O3 said:


> Its best to say 'Dear Sir/Madam' when you don't know the person you are addressing and if you use this, you have to end 'Yours Faithfully'.


That may be so in British English; I don't know. If you're writing to a company in the U.S., though, where business culture is very informal, "Yours faithfully" will come across as a bit stuffy and certainly quaint. The only people who sign letters this way in the U.S. are religious leaders. They use this phrase with the religious sense of "faith."


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## Florentia52

Al2O3 said:


> ...(A)nd if you use this, you have to end 'Yours Faithfully'.



Why is that?

_(Cross-posted with Egmont, with whom I agree.)_


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## Loob

If I was writing a letter to a company, I would write "Dear Sirs".

(I'm sure there are previous threads about this?)


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## sdgraham

Florentia52 said:


> The customary salutation is "To whom it may concern," but many people find that rather distant. I see nothing wrong with "Dear Forzen staff member."





dreamlike said:


> For some reason, 'Dear Forzen staff member' sounds a bit childish to me. I'd simply begin my email with 'Dear Sir or Madam'.


  Too pretentious for my AE taste. Besides, a "madam" can be a woman who runs a string of prostitutes, at least in AE


Al2O3 said:


> Its best to say 'Dear Sir/Madam' when you don't know the person you are addressing and if you use this, you have to end 'Yours Faithfully'.


Still too pretentious and stiff for my AE taste


Parla said:


> I'd just address the company, and I don't find "Dear" necessary. I'd just start: "To the Forzen Company: I'm writing to ask about . . ." Whoever opens the e-mail will direct it to the proper person or department to answer your question.




Note that we ex-colonials are normally more relaxed in these situations than our cousins across the pond.


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## Loob

sdgraham said:


> ...Note that we ex-colonials are normally more relaxed in these situations than our cousins across the pond.


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## dreamlike

sdgraham said:


> Too pretentious for my AE taste. Besides, a "madam" can be a woman who runs a string of prostitutes, at least in AE.


I see nothing pretensious whatsoever about 'Dear Sir/Madam'. I agree it sounds a bit stiff, but I'm used to it in BrE. I hope that your second argument is a joke on your part.  (if it's not: just because "madam" can mean that doesn't mean there's something wrong with a well-established salutation 'Dear Sir/Madam'). 

In any case, 'Dear Sir/Madam' may come across as stiff,  but on the other hand, 'To the Forzen company:........' sounds dangerously close to 'To that fuck** who parked his car in front of my house: could you move it?'. That is to say that to me, it sounds disrespectful, which is worse than 'stiff'.


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## Al2O3

I am British and this is how we always write letters and emails in England, it is a sort of standard code that everyone uses for the first email to someone they don't know the name of. It may sound a bit stuffy, but it is more idiomatic and will not come across like this.


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## farhad_persona

Didn't see this divergence of opinions coming!


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## owlman5

> In any case, 'Dear Sir/Madam' may come across as stiff,  but on the other hand, 'To the Forzen company:........' sounds dangerously close to 'To that fuck** who parked his car in front of my house: could you move it?'. That is to say that to me, it sounds disrespectful, which is worse than 'stiff'.


You made quite a leap there, dreamlike.  Nobody I know here in the US would interpret "To the Forzen company" to mean anything close to "To that fucker who parked his car in front of my house."  Your understanding of "disrespectful" is quite different from mine.


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## dreamlike

owlman5 said:


> You made quite a leap there, dreamlike.  Nobody I know here in the US would interpret "To the Forzen company" to mean anything close to "To that fucker who parked his car in front of my house."


Admittedly, I did. This was jut a somewhat exaggerated way of saying that "To [insert the name of a company]:" doesn't seem like a respectful way of opening a letter to me. This is probably unfounded.


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## owlman5

dreamlike said:


> Admittedly, I did. This was jut a somewhat exaggerated way of saying that "To [insert the name of a company]:" doesn't seem like a respectful way of opening a letter to me. This is probably unfounded.


Thanks for the answer, dreamlike.

At least farhad persona has two fairly different approaches to consider when addressing a letter to somebody he doesn't know.


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## Parla

> 'To the Forzen company:........' sounds . . . disrespectful "


It would _not_ be taken that way by US business people and, indeed, has not been taken that way by companies in England and Germany with which I've corresponded. Of course if a specific individual has written to me, I'll address that individual in replying.


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## Wordsmyth

There's definitely a transatlantic divide here, and it isn't to do with being any more or less relaxed; it's about being polite, according to local norms. Over here, "To ..." (and its equivalent in other European countries) is used for internal memos, or for labels on packages. Putting it in a business letter would strike most Europeans as impersonal or even disrespectful. 





Parla said:


> _ [...] _and, indeed, has not been taken that way by companies in England and Germany with which I've corresponded. _[...] _


 Well, they probably wouldn't tell you, Parla, but how do you know what they were thinking? 

We use "To whom it may concern" mostly for notices and general announcements: "The car park will be closed on Tuesday ...", "Please take your dirty coffee cups away when you leave this room", etc. I would never start an e-mail to a company with "To whom it may concern", because the person who reads it may think "It doesn't concern me" and ignore it! Even in the US, it seems not be universally recommended: this article from usnews.com states "File this greeting with smoke signals and pigeon post under obsolete communication strategies." 

Actually, in my own long experience of dealing with US companies, I've never noticed a big difference between US and UK practice in opening salutations: _Dear Sir _and _Dear Mr X_ seem common enough in US-sourced letters and e-mails, and I have occasionally seen _Dear Sir or Madam_. Where the big difference lies is in the closing phrases.

Ws


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## natkretep

​Yes, Loob's right. We've had this discussion before. I've merged Farhad's thread (beginning with post 17) with an earlier one.


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## loghrat

_Yanni_ said:


> I have often seen people use "Dear There" or "Hi There" or "Hello There".



I can imagine someone using 'Hi there' (which comes across as very informal), but 'Dear There' ?? I can't imagine a native speaker writing that.
In my opinion, it doesn't make sense in English.


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## DonnyB

It always seems a little contrived to me when writing an email to try and replicate the same format that you would use if you were writing a letter.  I start "Hi + person's name" if writing to a friend, or just "Hello" if not.  I don't like the impersonal tone of "staff member" or "company": I think that if you don't know a person's name it's better not to use anything.


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## Wordsmyth

DonnyB said:


> It always seems a little contrived to me when writing an email to try and replicate the same format that you would use if you were writing a letter._  [...]_


 That difference was evident back in the days when e-mail was used only for internal company communications and socially for informal messages, and mails were in plain text with no formatting — so there was no feel of a formal letter about them, and the normal style was as for a memo, or for a letter or note to a friend.

However, these days e-mail is widely used as a vehicle for formal letters, and e-mail interfaces allow full text formatting just as if you were writing a letter, so a full letter format is quite common. I'm often involved in recruiting, and virtually all candidatures are received by e-mail, in letter style; I'd be very surprised to see "Hi" or "Hello" as an opener in a candidate's letter.

Ws


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## Loob

That's interesting, Ws.  My business emails are quite unlike my business letters: I never use salutations in business emails.

(Just to clarify ...  I mean I don't use anything like the "Dear Sirs" I use in writing a letter to a company; I don't mean I'd start a formal email with "Hello" or "Hi".)


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## Wordsmyth

I wonder, Loob, whether (for you, as perhaps for Donny and maybe many others) that's a habit established in the earlier days of e-mail.

In my case, and for others in my milieu, nowadays the only difference between e-mail and paper is that I hit 'send' instead of printing it and putting it in an envelope. Both have the same range of possibilities of style. Of course, there are business mails and business mails ... 

"Dear Sir" and "Dear Sirs" are less likely to crop up, because professional e-mail addresses usually contain the person's name. So if I'm writing to looby.loo@thingamajigs.com (outside my company), and I don't know the addressee, I start the mail "Dear Mrs Loo". As soon as we know each other well enough (probably straight after first contact in many cases), I start with "Dear Loob(y)" — and if we were communicating frequently I'd probably start with "Hello, Loob" or just "Loob" (familiarity breeds, ermm, ... familiarity?) — all of which pretty much echoes what I'd do if I were writing by snail-mail. 

As for internal mails between colleagues within a company, the most common practice in my present company (and in others where I've worked) is to start and finish e-mails just with first names:  _Ted, ..Blabla blabla blablabla. ..Andy__.._— Again, that reflects what we did in the days of paper memos.

Ws


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## DonnyB

Wordsmyth said:


> I wonder, Loob, whether (for you, as perhaps for Donny and maybe many others) that's a habit established in the earlier days of e-mail.


Possibly so, but I simply do not *ever *start emails to anyone (friend or business) with "Dear xxx". 

Of the replies I get from businesses, the vast majority I suspect are tailored to conform to whatever house style the business concerned has imposed on its staff.  But just looking back through my inbox, the majority start "Hello Donny" or "Hi Donny" (or simply nothing) and they outnumber the "Dear Mr xxx/Dear Donny" type by quite a large margin.

The choice between Donny and Mr xxx seems to be governed by whether or nor we've had any previous contact: the only organization who seem to ignore that commonsense adaptation are the local council.  Maybe that's why the whole idea of "Dear Mr xxx" in emails comes across to me as somewhat beauracratic in the 21st century?


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## Wordsmyth

DonnyB said:


> _[...]_ But just looking back through my inbox, the majority start "Hello Donny" or "Hi Donny" (or simply nothing) and they outnumber the "Dear Mr xxx/Dear Donny" type by quite a large margin.
> 
> The choice between Donny and Mr xxx seems to be governed by whether or nor we've had any previous contact_ [...]_


 That goes for my inbox (and my 'sent' mails) too, largely because the vast majority of my mails are to and from people I already know. 

But I have very few that start with simply nothing (unless they're part of a sequence of replies on the same subject). Also, in my inbox I have very few that end with simply nothing: a lot of people sign off with "Regards" or "Rgds" or "Brgds" (something I rarely do myself, but it seems pretty common).

But farhad_persona (the OP before the thread was merged) was asking about a mail that isn't addressed to a particular person. There are occasions where I wouldn't use any salutation: for instance, to an obviously impersonal address such as _feedback@microsplot.com_. On the other hand, if I were applying for a job, even if the address were _recruitmentunit@xyz.com_, I wouldn't feel comfortable starting straight in with "I am writing to you ...", any more than I would in the paper letter I'd have sent in pre-email days. In a case like that, I'd start with "Dear Sir or Madam"; (in spite of the sexist dilemma posed by the order, that one seems to be used more often than "Dear Madam or Sir"). 

Actually, given that a job application might well be printed off, and that print formatting of e-mails is sometimes iffy, I'd probably write my letter in Word and add it to the e-mail as an attachment, along with the CV. Even so, the e-mail cover would need to contain a few lines, so I'd probably still use a salutation.

Ws


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