# Imperatives, 2nd person future, and נא+infinitive (on signs)



## theunderachiever

This is mostly concerning the imperative mood vs. 2nd person future, and negation of both respectively.

I always thought the 2nd person future to be completely interchangeable with the imperative form.  A book I'm reading screwed with my head and said that this is only used to negate a command.  I know this is at least somewhat incorrect, insofar as people will use it affirmatively, and I even think I've found a preference for this type of command issuing.  The trouble is, there must be a reason for this preference and I'm not understanding it, that is if I'm not simply imagining it.  The only guess I have is an affirmative command issued in this way might seem more polite.  If so, I don't understand why certain imperative forms (תן comes to mind) seem to be favored over their future tense counterparts sometimes.  I've wondered this about nouns and when they denote possession by undergoing morphological changes rather than using a form of של, too.  There seems to be a pattern I can sense but can't describe.

I understand נא more or less means please and seems to be confined to signage.  My question here is whether the non-specific sort of negative imperative (-לא ל) works just as well for signs and if so, what seems to be more widely used.

I didn't want to make a thread for this, as I'm not asking for an explanation, but could someone tell me what the 2nd person suffix attached to a verb _*thing *_(לשמרך, for instance) is called?  I just want to be able to google it and read about it, but I'm not sure how to label this grammatically.

As always, it's been a pleasure writing and I'm sure a horror reading.  שלום עליכם


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## bazq

Hi there,
First thing off, you can read in Wikipedia about the Modern Hebrew imperatives, it's called הציווי החדש ("The new imperative"). Sadly, the article is only available in the Hebrew Wikipedia, and as of yet hasn't been translated into English.
Basically, the imperative forms strike speakers as too strong, perhaps impolite, and so the prefixed verb forms ("future") is used. Generally this verbal form holds the entire non-past system of Modern Hebrew (future, imperative, modality...). Now, "the new imperative" is based on the prefixed conjugation minus the first syllable (the prefix).
In some verbs (binyan qal) the form is identical to what you'd find in Biblical Hebrew:
תלך become לך
תכתוב becomes כתוב
תצאי becomes צאי

But in other binyanim the same rule of reduction is applied (contrary to the imperatives in BH):
תיכנס becomes כנס (in BH היכנס).

Sometimes this reduction doesn't happen (binyan Hif'il), and so the prefixed verb is both future and imperative:
תפעיל (in BH הפעל haf'el)
תכניס (in BH הכנס hakhnes)

נא is used in formal registers, לא ל is used both in formal registers and spoken language (though much less than "אל תלך"  /"אל תעשה" etc.) 

Forms like לשמרך are called "Infinitive construct", and in Hebrew "מקור נטוי".


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## theunderachiever

Thank you for the concise and informative reply.  Regarding לשמרך, I was referring to (49 lashes if I misused this term) pronominal suffix applied to the infinitive to render it "to keep you" rather than just "לשמר"

I'm not sure if it's typically only a biblical construct like the enigmatic and convoluted vav consecutive, or if it enjoys contemporary use.  I think I've seen it used before, so I feel it's worth knowing.  My attempts to locate explanations on this have failed, yet I'm sure it has been under my nose this whole time.

It's a really peculiar function.  I like it.

(Edit:  I think I gained some knowledge of this function from this forum with direct interaction with another member, but I looked through my posts and messages and either missed it or am remembering wrong.  I think this thing I'm describing is limited to the present participle and infinitive.  If I asked you already, I'm sorry.  I dont know why I can't remember.  Things like this normally set up shop in my head and never vacate.)

(Edit #2:  I googled "accusative suffix verb Hebrew" and found it, so all I wonder now is whether this is used outside of literary contexts or pretentious speech)


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## Drink

theunderachiever said:


> Thank you for the concise and informative reply.  Regarding לשמרך, I was referring to (49 lashes if I misused this term) pronominal suffix applied to the infinitive to render it "to keep you" rather than just "לשמר"



It's nothing more than a pronominal suffix. It can be attached to any form of the verb, not just the infinitive.


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## theunderachiever

Drink said:


> It's nothing more than a pronominal suffix. It can be attached to any form of the verb, not just the infinitive.



Does it see any use in the spoken language?


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## Drink

theunderachiever said:


> Does it see any use in the spoken language?



It has been mostly replaced with אותך, etc. My guess is that in the modern spoken language, the suffixes are used almost never, and in the modern written language, very rarely.


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## theunderachiever

That's a shame...I was so intrigued by this function.  I was looking forward to using it.  I think I may end up studying Biblical Hebrew.  I've been blown away by some of what I've learned about Biblical Hebrew recently and, as a Jew, would certainly appreciate reading and fully undersranding tanakh, if not just for its poetry.

Thank you.


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## bazq

"ך" and the other suffixes are not used anymore in Modern Hebrew speech in the accusative (שלחך but שלח אותך in MH), but they are always used with prepositions - איתך לך בעדך אלייך ממך etc.

If you're interested in reading the tanakh rather than speaking to Israelis, learn BH (it'll be much easier learning MH afterwards if you want to).


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## hadronic

Usage of the personal suffixes is quite widespread in the third person in newspapers and other neutral / formal settings, ie. לשמרו lešamro, להפתיעם lehafti'am. Same for personal suffixes attached to noun, except for body parts, family and a couple of fixed expressions, it pretty much fell from usage in the modern language, but its usage in third person after action nouns is still widespread in newspapers : שימורו šimuro, הפתעתם hafta'atam. 

Regarding the imperative : look for Bolozky papers on the web.... He wrote a lot on it, both on the new imperative and the reduced new imperative. 
As explained above, the reduced new imperative basically drops the first vowel, from there other changes in the initial consonant cluster simplification may arise. 
Ex. tišmor  (keep!)  > tšmor = čmor. This is pronunceable so no further change required. 
tixtov (write!)  > txtov > xtov, after cluster reduction. Be careful here, it doesn't equate the imperative, which is ktov. 

Regarding תן:  all monosyllabic imperatives (from sick roots) tend to be preferred : תן, שב, לך, צא, בוא, etc..


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