# Chinese-Greek transliteration



## ulyssez

I'm looking for resources on Chinese-Greek transliteration.  Specifically, on how to transliterate Chinese names and place names into Greek alphabet.  I've looked all over the net but could find little.  Does anyone know where to find them?  English sites are preferable but Chinese or Greek sites are equally appreciated.

TIA


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## ireney

I did a search on the internet too and it seems there's no available resource. In a site where Greek translators exchange opinions, resources and ideas and ask for help I got the feeling that there's no "official" transliteration method. With the exception of "traditional" transcriptions such as Μάο Τσε Τουνγκ for, I suppose, 毛泽东 (took this from wikipedia's article on Mao Zedong) or Πεκίνο for 北京 (wikipedia again) in whice case even if the transliteration is wrong the commonly used one is to be used for most cases, the only way I can see of going about it is ascertaining which combination of Greek letters will better render the phonetic value of the Chinese characters (or their pinyin "alternative" spelling) and use these.

Hou Hsiao-Hsien (Traditional Chinese: 侯孝賢; Simplified Chinese: 侯孝贤; Hanyu Pinyin: Hóu Xiàoxián; Wade-Giles: Hou2 Hsiao4-hsien2) (wikipedia again) for instance becomes *Χου Χσιάο-χσιέν*


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## samanthalee

ireney said:


> the only way I can see of going about it is ascertaining which combination of Greek letters will better render the phonetic value of the Chinese characters (or their pinyin "alternative" spelling) and use these.


 
I agree with that. Other languages to Chinese transliteration of names is always subjective too. My practice is to google my transliteration (in my case I use baidu.com which is more skewed to Chinese sites than google). From the search result, I'll decide which is more commonly used and which I'll want to use.


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## ulyssez

So Chiense->English/Latin->Greek transliteration is the norm?  It seems quite wierd for some cases... (Hou Hsiao Hsien's Χσ for one)

Interesting though that Mao's transliteration sounds closer to the Japanese reading than any Chinese dialect/translit. system.

And lastly, how do you think I should translate the surname Hsiung/Xiong?  Should it be Χσιυνγ or Ξιονγ, or is there a better/more common way?  I've tried looking up Kaohsiung (city in Taiwan), but I couldn't even find a transliteration for that.


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## ireney

Interesting questions! I'm afraid that since I have only learnt the rudiments of reading pinyin and I am struggling even with that I can't give you a definite answer.

Let's take Hsiung/xiong.The two "apparent" alternatives are Χσιούνγκ and Ξιόνγκ (note that I haven't addressed the placing of an accent mark yet).

Now I've found the name of  Chang Chun-Hsiung  transliterated as Τσανγκ Τσουν-χσιούνγκ and I suppose Lin Yi-hsiung  would be Λιν γι Χσιούνκγ. However, if the "ks" sound of Ξιόνγκ is closer to the actual sound and the sound of /o/ is closer to that of /u/ then you should go for this one. If none of the two apply then let's make a new one  What would be the IPA transliteration of the surname?


You see I found the names  Son Yong Choe , Jo Yong Hui (chinese synchronised swimming team for the Olympics 2000, isn't weird what an internet search will come up with? ) transliterated as Κοέ Σον Γιονγκ, Γιο Ξονγκ Χουί (note that the accent mark means that the Choe is pronounced choE and Hui as huI)

Kaohsiung  by the way I found transliterated as Καοχσιούνγκ so I guess we do follow the pattern you described (Chinese to English/Latin to Greek). You have to remember that there wasn't much direct interaction between the two nations till lately and apart from some academics who will have no doubt ponder on the matter the rest didn't really have a reason to think of the matter.


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## ulyssez

Well, the IPA of Hsiung/Xiong is supposed to be /ɕyʊŋ/.  The X in Xiong really isn't a ks sound at all, it's rather closer to the Russian soft sh sound.  That said, it's strange that Jo Yong Hui's Yong is transliterated as Ξονγκ.  As for the io/iu sound, I think it should be closer to modern Greek's ιο than ιού, but then that probably depends on the accent as well (which is why there needed to be a standarized translit system to begin with!)

I think I'll go with Χσιούνγκ for now...  Thanks for the help!


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## ireney

Hmmmm I just did some research based on the information you gave me ulussez (thank you by the way) and it looks as there's no "h" sound in Hsioung either? It's more like Shioung? If so then the more correct way to transliterate it would be Σιούνγκ (there's no "sh" sound in Greek really). However since the more common Latin/English transliteration includes an "h" the more common Greek transliteration will include one too I'm afraid.

Oh and the transliteration of "yong" _is_ strange (I'd expect a Γιονγκ)


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## ulyssez

Exactly, the Chinese hs/x consonant has neither the aspirated h sound nor ks sound.  Like I said, the closest European language near equivalent that I can think of is Russian's soft sh.  The reason Latin/English transliteration (i.e. Wade-Giles and Pinyin) use hs and x is precisely because there is nothing close in Latin/English, so they essentially invented a new consonant (the hs in W-G) or redefined the sound of a consonant (the x in Pinyin).

That said, the argument against simply transliterating this name as Siong/Σιούνγκ or similar is that there is another /s/ consonant transliterated as S/Σ.  Even though the consonant-dipthong combination of hsiung/xiong will never occur for the /s/ consonant, and arguably for someone who knows Chinese there is no ambiguation between the two consonants, it is still more prudant and systematic to transliterate this consonant as something other than S/Σ.


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