# Urdu: doctor (feminine)



## Alfaaz

*Background:* A medical doctor is often called the following in Urdu: ڈاکٹر ۔ طبیب ۔ حکیم ۔ معالج...

*Questions: *The words above are all masculine. What about if the doctor is a female? 
 

طبیبہ: is used to mean lady doctor/ doctor (who is a girl, female)...
معالجہ: on the other hand, seems to be used as a synonym for علاج .... 
Could it/Is it also used to refer to a female doctor?

Can/is حکیمہ used?

Also, if the any of the above can be/are used...how are izaafats made...would the following be correct?  tabeebah-e-qalb/nafsiyaat  قلب / نفسیات / عصبیات ?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:* A medical doctor is often called the following in Urdu: ڈاکٹر ۔ طبیب ۔ حکیم ۔ معالج...
> 
> *Questions: *The words above are all masculine. What about if the doctor is a female?
> 
> 
> طبیبہ: is used to mean lady doctor/ doctor (who is a girl, female)...
> معالجہ: on the other hand, seems to be used as a synonym for علاج ....
> Could it/Is it also used to refer to a female doctor?
> 
> Can/is حکیمہ used?
> 
> Also, if the any of the above can be/are used...how are izaafats made...would the following be correct?  tabeebah-e-qalb/nafsiyaat  قلب / نفسیات / عصبیات ?




tabiibah should be fine and your construction with the izaafat is correct.

Hakiim has Yuunaanii-tib connotations just as a vaid is connected to Aryuvedic medicine.

DaakTarnii is another one but it could be seen as rather "uneducated".

mu3aalajah is treatment (pattern III of the Arabic verb) whereas the faa3il is "mu3aalij" (3ilaaj karne vaalaa), the feminine being "mu3aalijah".


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:* A medical doctor is often called the following in Urdu: ڈاکٹر ۔ طبیب ۔ حکیم ۔ معالج...
> 
> *Questions: *The words above are all masculine. What about if the doctor is a female?
> 
> 
> طبیبہ: is used to mean lady doctor/ doctor (who is a girl, female)...
> معالجہ: on the other hand, seems to be used as a synonym for علاج ....
> Could it/Is it also used to refer to a female doctor?
> 
> Can/is حکیمہ used?
> 
> Also, if the any of the above can be/are used...how are izaafats made...would the following be correct?  tabeebah-e-qalb/nafsiyaat  قلب / نفسیات / عصبیات ?


 We go for _Tabiib / Tabiibah_ for masc. / fem. doctor generally, but esp. when making _iDhaafat_ constructs.

I would be careful using _mu3aal*i*jah_ for a female doctor in Urdu since _mu3aal*a*jah_ is already used by us to mean _3ilaaj_, e.g. _mu3aal*i*ja-e-qalb_ (= female cardiologist), sounds awfully close to _mu3aal*a*ja-e-qalb_ = heart treatment. Given the all too common lack of this _zer-zabar tamiiz_ I see some confusion, particularly in the minds of those listeners who do have this _zer-zabar tamiiz_. The context might tell the latter  what is meant but why increase the chances of confusion!

_Hakiimah_ is also OK for a "homeopathic" (as opposed to an allopathic) doctor. However, _Hakiim / Hakiimah_ are also used to mean “wise” man / woman, e.g. _Hakiim al-faaraabii_ (originally _paaraabii_) or _Hakiim abul qasim-e-firdausii_.


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for the helpful replies!


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> *Background:* A medical doctor is often called the following in Urdu: ڈاکٹر ۔ طبیب ۔ حکیم ۔ معالج... [...]
> *Questions: *The words above are all masculine. What about if the doctor is a female?


Thank you for posing this question so that we got all the precedent replies which are really informative and detailed, as well as this question!

*Just a couple of side-notes for the sake of learners:
*
It is true that a medical doctor is often called ڈاکٹر in Urdu but this statement is not true with regard to the other words listed. They are of course correct (with the exception of حکیم, as per Faylasoof SaaHib's explanation) but everything can be said about them but that they are often used.

In order to emphasize the sex of the doctor we usually say خاتون ڈاکٹر _xaatuun DaakTar_ and it solves the problem!


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## BP.

I believe it is too late to modify the title, but it should have specified it referenced a medical doctor, not a 'proper' doctor!


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## marrish

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I believe it is too late to modify the title, but it should have specified it referenced a medical doctor, not a 'proper' doctor!


I'm afraid you are right, but the reference to a medical practitioner had been made in the OP.


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## BP.

marrish said:


> I'm afraid you are right, but the reference to a medical practitioner had been made in the OP.


Yes but you have to open the thread. And I'm sorry, but this the sort of impulsive thing that comes instinctively with being the other kind of doctor!
Sorry for the disruption in the proceedings.


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## marrish

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Yes but you have to open the thread. And I'm sorry, but this the sort of impulsive thing that comes instinctively with being the other kind of doctor!
> Sorry for the disruption in the proceedings.


Oh, I see. You are right. Since the title doesn't specify which kind of doctor is discussed here, could you please tell how you would title yourself in Urdu? I've no clue.


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## Alfaaz

> Yes but you have to open the thread. And I'm sorry, but this the sort of impulsive thing that comes instinctively with being the other kind of doctor!
> Sorry for the disruption in the proceedings.



Didn't mean to leave the Ph.D's out of the discussion...


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## BP.

marrish said:


> Oh, I see. You are right. Since the title doesn't specify which kind of doctor is discussed here, could you please tell how you would title yourself in Urdu? I've no clue.


Nothing, according to the sunnat of the country where I obtained it. Maybe otherwise, _mullaa_.


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## Alfaaz

> Nothing, according to the sunnat of the country where I obtained it. Maybe otherwise, _mullaa_.



(If I have understood correctly, then....) Wow!!! سبحان الله اور ما شاء الله


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## BP.

I'm surprised nobody thought of _baydnii_-بیدنی. A _bayd _is a _mu3aalij_.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I'm surprised nobody thought of _baydnii_-بیدنی. A _bayd _is a _mu3aalij_.




See post 2, DaakTar SaaHib. I did mention something relevant to this


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I'm surprised nobody thought of _baydnii_-بیدنی. A _bayd _is a _mu3aalij_.


 BP SaaHib, بيد बैद _baid_ _a person of the medical caste, physician_, is hardly used in Urdu. Instead we use its synonym: حكیم _Hakiim_, with the proviso discussed above. But yes _baidnii _would be the feminine!


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Didn't mean to leave the Ph.D's out of the discussion...


 Well, in that case let me come in here! We really don't have a special designation for this in Urdu. Usually a PhD is referred to as a _daakTar_ _fulaaN_ or a _profesar_ _fulaaN_. The nearest we get to this is the Arabic-Persian designation _ustaa*z*_, but for us it is _ustaa*d*_. However, in Urdu we don't use _ustaad_ to mean a professor. BTW, _ustaad / ustaaz  _was discussed here and here.


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## BP.

QURESHPOR said:


> See post 2, DaakTar SaaHib. I did mention something relevant to this


Thank you, got that. So we need a word not tied to a source of the science.

If you asked me, the feminine noun is irrelevant. It doesn't make a better doctor, and it doesn't exist if you happened to be a professor: nobody calls you professornii saahiba but people do call you DakTarnii saahiba.


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Thank you, got that. So we need a word not tied to a source of the science.
> 
> *If you asked me, the feminine noun is irrelevant.* It doesn't make a better doctor, and it doesn't exist if you happened to be a professor: nobody calls you *professornii saahiba* but people do call you DakTarnii saahiba.


* Perhaps we should leave it for the ladies to decide if they would prefer or not to have the title feminised.* * I do like the sound of this one!* *Perhaps a bit Italian sounding.* *Hmm .. how about profesaraanii ! *


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> * Perhaps we should leave it for the ladies to decide if they would prefer or not to have the title feminised.* * I do like the sound of this one!* *Perhaps a bit Italian sounding.* *Hmm .. how about profesaraanii ! *




This should certainly please the lady professors no end! Who would not be over the moon if you are a professor and a QUEEN at the same time!


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> This should certainly please the lady professors no end! Who would not be over the moon if you are a professor and a QUEEN at the same time!


 This was precisely my intention!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Thank you for posing this question so that we got all the precedent replies which are really informative and detailed, as well as this question!
> 
> *Just a couple of side-notes for the sake of learners:
> *
> It is true that a medical doctor is often called ڈاکٹر in Urdu but this statement is not true with regard to the other words listed. They are of course correct (with the exception of حکیم, as per Faylasoof SaaHib's explanation) but everything can be said about them but that they are often used.
> 
> In order to emphasize the sex of the doctor we usually say خاتون ڈاکٹر _xaatuun DaakTar_ and it solves the problem!



Well, marrish SaaHib, contrary to common belief, we Punjabis are quite modern really! In my childhood I remember that a female doctor would be referred to as a "Lady Doctor"! And now you are telling us to "regress" and go for "xaatuun DaakTar". janaab, aap kaisii baateN karte haiN?


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Well, marrish SaaHib, contrary to common belief, we Punjabis are quite modern really! In my childhood I remember that a female doctor would be referred to as a "Lady Doctor"! And now you are telling us to "regress" and go for "xaatuun DaakTar". janaab, aap kaisii baateN karte haiN?


Wow, this is what I see as an interesting reaction! 
God forbid me to even think of suggesting anyone to ''regress'' and I'm far from telling anyone to do anything.
What I only can recommend is not to forcibly genderize any terms or functions unnecessarily, as per my opinion, but the fact is that the OP asked for such a distinction so I did my best to give a simple answer which finds its root in the common language. I have no doubt about people of Punjabi background (now if you ask) that they are very progressive and modern. By the way in this or another thread dealing with this stuff you presented your view with regard to political correctness, so I can notice a sizeable evolution of your position in comparison with your school years !


In my post which you refer to I was a bit brief and said that this solution is to be used in order to emphasize the sex, but in another thread 
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2353893
I was maybe more eloquent there so I'm posting a quote so that there is no doubt left:


> In situations that require indicating the specialist's sex, we can put خاتون _xaatuun preceeding the specialization, like خاتون ماہر نفسیاتxaatuun maahir-e nafsiyyaat (lady psychologist), خاتون طبیبِ نفسی xaatuun tabiib-e nafsii (lady psychiatrist)._


 I can imagine it can make a big difference for some _mariiz xawaatiin_ so it can be indicated to them this way.

Edit: ''lady doctor'' might be misunderstood as ''a doctor for ladies''!


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## Alfaaz

Thanks to everyone for the excellent replies. I probably shouldn't have included daakTer in the OP, as it is obviously an English word, is neuter, and used as such even in Urdu (doctor ayaa tha, doctor aayi thi);



> I can imagine it can make a big difference for some _mariiz xawaatiin_ so it can be indicated to them this way. Edit: ''lady doctor'' might be misunderstood as ''a doctor for ladies''!



Agree. "Lady Doctor" has been usually the "ba sharm/baHaya/polite" way of referring to obstetricians/gynecologists...as that field seems to have been mostly dominated by females due to the religious and cultural norms/expectations of Eastern, and esp. Southeast Asian society.



> _mariiz xawaatiin_



Don't mean to go off topic, but if the plural of mareez is mareezaan or mareezoN..._what is the plural form of mareezah_?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Don't mean to go off topic, but if the plural of mareez is mareezaan or mareezoN..._what is the plural form of mareezah_?



mariiz >> marzaa (broken Arabic plural)

mariizah >> mariizaat (sound Arabic plural)


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## Alfaaz

> mariiz >> marzaa (broken Arabic plural)
> mariizah >> mariizaat (sound Arabic plural)



So is mareezaan wrong? (Is the dictionary giving wrong information once again...?) Also, why marzaa and not mariizeen (munafiq--munafiqeen)...is it because of following a different pattern of pluralization?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> So is mareezaan wrong? (Is the dictionary giving wrong information once again...?) Also, why marzaa and not mariizeen (munafiq--munafiqeen)...is it because of following a different pattern of pluralization?




Well, Alfaaz jii (jii being gender neutral), this is the beauty of Urdu. You have so many choices.

mariiz >>> mariiz-aan {Persian plural}

riyaasat >> riyaasat-haa (-i-mutaHiddah) [United States] {Persian plural}

mariiz >>> marzaa (broken Arabic Plural)...yes, in Arabic some words take the broken plural (valad >>aulaad) whilst others take the sound plural, (muslim >>> muslimuun (direct case), muslimiin (oblique case).

vaalid >>> (vaalidayn...parents, this is the oblique "dual")

yahaaN "mariizoN" kaa 3ilaaj baRii xush usluubii se hotaa hai (Prakrit oblique plural)


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