# To read



## ThomasK

In the thread regarding _count/account_ I noticed one language 'associates' reading wih counting, whereas Dutch associates it - well, etymologically - with collecting. So: is your word for reading also some kind of metaphor, etymologically speaking? 

German/ Dutch: _*lesen/ lezen*_ < lezen, collect (aren lezen, gleaning in E, i.e., collecting spikes, I believe)

Czech : _*čísti*_ (reading and counting, I believe) [taken from the _count/account_ thread]


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## francisgranada

Hungarian

*olvasni* - to read

In the past it had also the meaning of _to count_, but today it's used only in the sense of to read. 

(There is also an old term for the rosary: _olvasó._ One has to "count" the Paternosters and Avemarias)


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## ThomasK

Due to my Dutch/Flemish mother tongue, I tend to associate counting (('tellen') with telling ('vertellen'), but it is interesting to hear that you also associate reading with counting.


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## hui

*Finnish:

*to read = _lukea _(original meaning: to count)

number =  _luku_
[the act of] reading = _luku, lukeminen
_reading [= value of a meter, e.g.] = _lukema

_


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## ThomasK

Thanks. I just checked in my mini-minidictionary, and found out that you also associate reading with studying (_luvut_), with scanning, with keeping/ collecting, even with a roster. And I suppose you are a real _lukutoukka_, a reading caterpillar, more commonly known as a bookworm... Or am I mistaken?


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## apmoy70

In Modern Greek the verb is «διαβάζω» (ðia'vazo), the Byzantine "edition" of the Classical verb «διαβιβάζω» (dĭăbĭ'bāzō)--> lit. _pass through_ (compound; prefix and preposition «διὰ» (dī'ă)--> _through, throughout_ + rare verb -mostly used in compounds- «βιβάζω» (bĭ'bāzō)--> _cause to go_, PIE base *gʷem-/*gʷeh₂-, _to go, come_). 
«Διαβάζω» has the meaning of _silently passing through the written passage I have before me_.
In the Ancient language, the verb for reading was «ἀναγιγνώσκω» (ănăgĭ'gnōskō)--> _to perceive, recognise, acknowledge_ (compound; prefix and preposition «ἀνὰ» (ā'nă)--> _up, on, upon, throughout, again_ + verb «γιγνώσκω» (gĭ'gnōskō)--> _to come to know, perceive, know by observation_, PIE base *gno-, _to know_). 
In the Modern language with «αναγιγνώσκω» (anaji'ɣnosko) or the colloquiallism «αναγνώνω» (ana'ɣnono), one _reads aloud before an audience_.


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## jazyk

In Portuguese: ler, from Latin legere, which also meant to collect, to harvest, to select, to choose, to steal, to look at. _Ler _in Portuguese only means _to read_.


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## ThomasK

Thanks, both of you !

Greek reminds me of our _diagonaal lezen_, _overlopen_/ _overzien_, sometimes _doorlopen_, maybe _look up/ opzoeken. _
The associations or extra (but former, I understand ?) meanings I read are quite intriguing: even to choose and to steal !


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## bibax

The Latin verb *legere* (lego, lectum) is a base verb for verbs like _to collect_ and _to elect_. I should say that the basic meaning of this verb is _to take_.

The meaning _to steal_ is rather special, mostly in a religious context - sacrilegium, _sacrilege_.

Another metaphorical meaning of this verb: oram legere = lit. to collect (places of) the coast = to sail along the coast.

Finally, legere = to read, i.e. to take/collect the letters/information from a book.
Quite a new meaning (2,500 years or so).


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## ThomasK

That's great information, and new to me. I did know the word _sacrilegium_ but I did not know it referred to _legere_. And I should have known there is a link with _election_ and _collection_. Thanks a lot!

By the way: do you think taking is the basic meaning? Of course collecting and taking resemble one another, that is true...


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## francisgranada

Other words that are linked to _legere_ are _intelligent, __intellectual, election, collection, lecture, lector, lection ..._


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## ThomasK

Never thought of that, but yes: _inter-legere_, superior knowledge, I now read at etymonline.org.


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## itreius

BCS

*čitati* imperfective  < PIE _*kweyt_ (Sanskrit _cetati_ to perceive)
*pročitati* perfective
*očitati* _~make a reading of something_
*učitati* _~to load data_
and some other forms such as iščitati (imperf. iščitavati)

It's not related with the word for _account_, which is _račun_ (comes from Latin _ratio_), or with the word for collecting - _sakupiti_ (sa + kupiti - to buy; < Gothic kaupjan).


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## francisgranada

itreius said:


> BCS ... It's not related with the word for _account ..._


 
Slovak

*čítať* - to read (imperfective) 
*prečítať* - to read (perfective)

But:
*počítať* - to count
_*pričítať*_ - to add to (in mathematics)
_*odčítať*_ - to substract (in mathematics)
_*sčítať*_ - to summarize
_*počítač*_ - calculator, computer

And:
_*číslo*_ - number (I'm not sure about the etymology)

(in Slovak, the connection between _read_ and _count_ is evident)


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## Rallino

In Turkish

To read = *okumak.* It doesn't have anything to do with 'to count'. However, this verb is also used to mean 'to study at school/university'.

So, if someone asks: "Ne okuyorsun?" (lit. What are you reading?), it can be (a) _What book are you reading these days?_ or (b) _What do you study at university? / What's your major at university?_


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## francisgranada

jazyk said:


> In Portuguese: ler, from Latin legere, which also meant to collect, to harvest, to select, to choose, to steal, to look at. _Ler _in Portuguese only means _to read_.


 
This is valid also for other Romance languages, e.g. Spanish _leer_, Italian _leggere_, French _lire_ .... etc.


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## ThomasK

Would you know more about the origin of your word okumak, Rallino? It reminds me of the English use of read in something, like, he is reading law at university, or some similar expression. I find this: 




> Reading law is the method by which persons in common law countries, particularly the United States, entered the legal profession before the advent of law schools. This usage specifically refers to a means of entering the profession (although in England it is still customary to say that a university undergraduate is "reading" a course, which may be law or any other).


 
I am amazed at the different meanings _legere_ can have, but I am not aware of that variation in French, I must say.


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## DenisBiH

itreius said:


> It's not related with the word for _account_, which is _račun_ (comes from Latin _ratio_), or with the word for collecting - _sakupiti_ (sa + kupiti - to buy; < Gothic kaupjan).




Erm, I see that HJP does indeed  link to that etymology, but as far as I can see kúpiti "to buy" is from Gothic kaupjan. On the other hand, kȕpiti "to gather", from which  _sakupiti_ should be derived, is from PIE *kowp- according to HJP.


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> Thanks. I just checked in my mini-minidictionary, and found out that you also associate reading with studying (_luvut_), with scanning, with keeping/ collecting, even with a roster. And I suppose you are a real _lukutoukka_, a reading caterpillar, more commonly known as a bookworm... Or am I mistaken?


 
Could you possibly copy here the words that helped you form this idea? I am somewhat unsure what _studying, _what _roster_ etc. you are referring to.


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## Rallino

ThomasK said:


> Would you know more about the origin of your word okumak, Rallino? It reminds me of the English use of read in something, like, he is reading law at university, or some similar expression. I find this:
> 
> [...]



I've checked Nişanyan Etym. Dict. for 'okumak'. It says, it's old Turkic for 'to call / to invite'. And it also mentions an expression that we still use, albeit without noticing that the meaning of this verb is really different. The expression is: _*Meydan okumak.*_

_Meydan_ is a _square_ in a city. ('Square' as in the Italian word_ Piazza [... di Navona]_, etc.)

So, "Meydan okumak"  litterally means: _To call someone to the square_. Its meaning is "to fight with someone". Probably in those times, a person would call his enemy to the square of the city, so that everyone could see them duel.


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## إسكندراني

In Arabic it's قرأ qara2a - usage is very similar to English. You can read a book, read (=recite) scripture, read (=study) at university. The first word of the Qur'aan to the illiterate Muhammad PBUH was an imperative 'read' إقرأ.


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## ThomasK

Well, Turkish does look very exotic, all of a sudden ! ;-)

As for Finnish _(I am beginning to harbour doubt about my small Finnish 'woordenboek' [dictionary] because of the weird results I seem to get):_ I had found
_lukujärjestys, lukukausi, lukulaite _(but had not mentioned that one_), lukumäära _(not either)_,_ and maybe _lukuun ottamatta_ (not counted in, I guess). I am looking forward to your comment, Sakvaka !

Arabic: how interesting to hear that the Qur'aan was 'read'! I am not so sure why: is wisdom in Islam bound to the Holy Book? (One can hear people refer to the 'religions of the Book', but some people say that the oral tradition was very important for long)


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## sakvaka

ThomasK said:


> As for Finnish _(I am beginning to harbour doubt about my small Finnish 'woordenboek' [dictionary] because of the weird results I seem to get):_ I had found
> _lukujärjestys, lukukausi, lukulaite _(but had not mentioned that one_), lukumäära _(not either)_,_ and maybe _lukuun ottamatta_ (not counted in, I guess). I am looking forward to your comment, Sakvaka !



In these examples, _luku_ means 'reading' (from _lukea_; there are two common noun derivation types: -minen and -U, but here _lukeminen_ hasn't been used). For example, _lukujärjestys_ (student's timetable) literally means 'reading order'. That is, the order in which different subjects are 'read', studied.

_NB in Finnish, the verbs 'lukea' (read) and 'opiskella' (study) are sometimes synonymous. Eg. Olen lukenut (= opiskellut) fysiikkaa koko iltapäivän. Olen opiskelija ja luen (= opiskelen) englantia Kuopion yliopistossa. Älä häiritse, luen kokeisiin!
_ 
Given all this, _lukukausi_ (term) shouldn't be too big a surprise: _reading period/season.

Lukulaite_ (reader; eg. _e-kirjojen lukulaite_) is a 'reading device'.

_Lukumäärä_ (number of sth; aantal; NB mind the vowel harmony!) consists of _luku_ 'number in the word's broadest sense' and _määrä_ 'amount'. It's a strange word when interpreted literally, but often _määrä_ is already enough. However, _määrä_ can refer to both U and C words whereas _lukumäärä_ can only be counted for C words.

_Korissasi on suuri (luku)määrä omenoita.
Opiskelijoiden lukumäärä on 30. _(more commonly: _Opiskelijoita on 30._)
_Maitoa on vain 200 litraa; määrä on täysin riittämätön meille.

Lukuun ottamatta_ ('without counting in') is based on an idiomatic expression, _ottaa lukuun*_ ('take into number', ie. include/count in), BUT it's getting rarer and rarer. _Lukea mukaan_ (lit. "meelezen"?) more common - and equally interesting.

_Ministerien kokous vilisi ristiriitaisia mielipiteitä, Suomen kanta mukaan lukien (t. mukaan luettuna)__. _(= including)

One more: _pitää lukua jst_ (keep a number of/about sth) means roughly 'to act as a bookkeeper concerning sth'.

_Minun tehtäväni on pitää lukua henkilöistä, jotka saapuvat maaliin. Päivän päätteeksi vertaamme listoja, ettei kukaan vain ole jäänyt metsään._


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## ancalimon

Rallino: "oku" is also used a lot with the meaning of "to bless someone, something". It is probably related to old Turkic religion. I would think of the possibility that it may be related to a figurative meaning of "ok : oq : arrow" (maybe someone skillful, brave, intelligent, upright) and ultimately Proto-Turkic *ök- , *ȫg, *ȫ(j)-.. (meaning to think, idea, to have a mind:become like a human) (which is also the root of "öğren:learn", "öğret:teach", "öğrenci:student", tamga (Turkic version of coat of arms which are not credibly deciphered yet): complete idea ...

The name Oghuz probably was related to this "bless" together with Uyghur<Oghur and Hungar<On Ogur (uğur: augury: luck-blessing) as well. And even Öküz (ox) their horns (boğnuz) symbolyzing blessing from the creator. The ancestor of Turks (Oğuzhan who might have been a prophet) was said to have two horns as well. (I guess probably some kind of rank something similar to feathers used by Native Americans)

So, Oku shouldn't be related with taming-herding- a group (*ögür). It should be"eğit: to teach, tame an animal" which is related with *ögür. Not "oku"


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## mataripis

In Tagalog "Read" is "Bumasa(h)" and "Count" is "Bumilang", "Collect" is "Mangalap" and "Accounting" is "Pagsusulit"(account= Isulit or sulitin)


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## AutumnOwl

_*Swedish:*_
_(att) läsa_ = (to) read
_Jag läser_ = I read
_Läsa_ can also be used for study, for example: _Jag läser till läkare = I'm studying to become a doctor_.


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## ThomasK

That reminds me of English : _he is reading law_.


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## jana.bo99

To read is one thing and to study is other thing.

Slovenian

To read: brati

It means, I read now lots of crime novels. I don't study them, I just enjoy reading them.

If I read some book about history, in that case I read and study.


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## ThomasK

I don't think we referred to the word *'read'* itself  in English. The interesting thing is that it refers to a very old meaning of guessing, interpreting, advising, etc., which we still have in Dutch. Reading is then considered as




> "understand the meaning of written symbols"



as etymonline.org points out.


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## AquisM

Chinese makes no connections between _reading_ and _collecting_ whatsoever (unless there is any word that skips me currently, which other natives will have to correct me). The words for _to read_ are 读/讀 (Mandarin: du/Cantonese: duk) and 唸/諗 (Mandarin: nian/Cantonese: nim) (among other meanings, such as _to study/pronounce/recite/chant), _while words for _to collect_ (amongst others, and don't forget most Chinese words are have mulitple characters that are usually similar in meaning) are 收 (Mandarin: shou/Cantonese: sau - _to collect/receive/gather - _most commonly in the form of 收集_ to gather/collect_) and 採/采 (Mandarin: cai/Cantonese: tsoi - _to select/collect_ - most commonly in the form of 采集) and 集 (Mandarin: ji/Cantonese: zaap - _to collect/group/assemble_).


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## ThomasK

Well, that is interesting - and quite 'plausible', if I can put it that way, because a lot of reading was done aloud, so I believe.


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## OneStroke

AquisM said:


> Chinese makes no connections between _reading_ and _collecting_ whatsoever (unless there is any word that skips me currently, which other natives will have to correct me). The words for _to read_ are 读/讀 (Mandarin: du/Cantonese: duk) and 唸/諗 (Mandarin: nian/Cantonese: nim) (among other meanings, such as _to study/pronounce/recite/chant), _while words for _to collect_ (amongst others, and don't forget most Chinese words are have mulitple characters that are usually similar in meaning) are 收 (Mandarin: shou/Cantonese: sau - _to collect/receive/gather - _most commonly in the form of 收集_ to gather/collect_) and 採/采 (Mandarin: cai/Cantonese: tsoi - _to select/collect_ - most commonly in the form of 采集) and 集 (Mandarin: ji/Cantonese: zaap - _to collect/group/assemble_).



However, we do associate it with reading (hence the 'I see a book' mistakes): PTH 看書 (kan shu)/Cantonese 睇書 (tai syu)


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## aruniyan

In Tamil or Dravidian its 

Read= "Odhu" I think it should mean "To make others understand"


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## ThomasK

Dravidian/Tamil: seems quite challenging o interpret reading that way as it is generally considered extremely receptive. Yours would be a definition of speaking rather. 



> However, we do associate it with reading (hence the 'I see a book' mistakes): PTH 看書 (kan shu)/Cantonese 睇書 (tai syu)



Are you suggesting that in Chinese a (close) link is perceived between seeing and reading? Is that the right interpretation?


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## AquisM

As OneStroke has pointed out, we do say 'to see/look at a book' rather than 'to read a book'. The literal translation for reading a book would be 读书/念书, 'which has the meaning of 'to study' normally. I would say that Chinese links reading with studying more than any other concept.


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## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Dravidian/Tamil: seems quite challenging o interpret reading that way as it is generally considered extremely receptive. Yours would be a definition of speaking rather.



In Tamil counting="_eN_" and to Read a book or something  = "_Othu_" both have no connection, but the words for counting, thinking, considering etc are the same* "eN"*


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## ThomasK

And "eN" is a kind of word, or a root, you mean? It does look interesting...


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## aruniyan

Its a word, 

En=Count,To account. also En=Short form for the number Eight.
Ennam/Enni = Think.
Enru = considering


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## ThomasK

Very interesting, food for thought. We only use _tellen _(count) metaphorically in _vertellen _(telling stories), which is also the case in German and in French, despite a different spelling (_compter/ raconter_).


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## arielipi

In hebrew it is also used for call(someone).


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## darush

Hi Thomask,
in Farsi
to read> خواندن khāndan
to count> شمردن shemordan
_khāndan_ means _to sing_ also


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## ThomasK

I suppose reading had to do with reciting holy texts, which could explain a link (just as our _lezen _can also mean praying in my dialect).


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## AutumnOwl

In Swedish there is a connection between _tal_ (numbers) and _tala_ (speak) instead of between _räkna_ (count) and_ läsa _(read).


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