# Prefiero que ella no venga (Subjuntivo)



## BryanCr7Know

Buenas, voy a poner algunas frases y ustedes me dicen si son correctas.

Prefiero que ella no venga a la fiesta
I prefer she not come to the party

_(Edición del moderador: cada hilo puede tratar un solo tema, con un ejemplo, para que no se produzcan varias conversaciones entrelazadas. Las frases adicionales han sido borrados.)_

Saludos. (Quise hacer un thread de esto para estar mas seguro)


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## kayokid

Hello.

Your attempt is correct.

It is basically a literal translation of the Spanish and sounds quite formal to me.

Personally, I think I would say something like:

I would prefer (it) if she didn't/wouldn't come to the party.
 This seems a lot more cumbersome, grammatically speaking,  to me anyway.

Let's see what others say.


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## BryanCr7Know

Osea que esos subjuntivos en el presente no utilizan ni do ni does, solo el not, no?


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## Sleptikal

Depende del caso.

La forma más común de convocar el subjuntivo es *for + noun/pronoun + infinitive*.

Usamos esta estructura cuando un infinitivo necesita su propio sujeto.
_It's important for Jane not to fail her exams._

Es frecuentemente usada después de los adjetivos y sustantivos.
_I'm unhappy for the children to miss school._
_It's time for us to go._

Puede ser el sujeto de una oración.
_For him to apologise would be unthinkable._

A menudo es usado en lugar de una cláusula _that_ con _should._
_It's essential that Sue call her dad._
_It's essential for Sue to call her dad._


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## aztlaniano

BryanCr7Know said:


> O sea que esos subjuntivos en el presente no utilizan ni do ni does, solo el not, no?


En todo caso sería "do" y no "does ".


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## BryanCr7Know

Hay tantas partes de este Subjuntivo que hasta uno se confunde, ya sabia ese de "this is for me to do it", pero la parte que yo me refiero es la de los verbos y las otras palabras esas como "Necessary" "Important" etc... Ya que cambia mucho


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## kayokid

@ Sleptikal 

Es frecuentemente usada después de los adjetivos y sustantivos.

_I'm unhappy for the children to miss school._

Can you give me the Spanish to this, please? I just can't see myself saying this. It just doesn't sound right to my ear.

Thanks.


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## Sleptikal

That's a complex one.
>> _Estoy triste por los niños que  se pierdan la escuela._


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## BryanCr7Know

I request she (not) be here at ten
It's advisable she stop drinking that


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## Drake15

Sleptikal said:


> That's a complex one.
> >> _Estoy triste por los niños que  se pierdan la escuela._


Eso me suena raro, ¿es gramaticalmente correcto?
Yo diría "Estoy triste por los niños que se pierd*en* la escuela", o "Estoy triste de que los niños se pierdan la escuela".

*Edit*

Ah, ya se me ocurrió cómo podría ser correcto:
Estoy triste por los niños que se pierdan la escuela mañana debido a la nieve.


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## Sleptikal

Claro. Lo que ocurre es que de buenas a primeras, es difícil entender el uso del subjuntivo si no se tiene una oración completa, o sea, con el contexto adecuado.
Pero ahí te diste un buen ejemplo de que sí tiene sentido.


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## BryanCr7Know

Como están mis ejemplos...?


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## Bevj

kayokid said:


> _I'm unhappy for the children to miss school._
> Can you give me the Spanish to this, please?





Sleptikal said:


> >> _Estoy triste por los niños que  se pierdan la escuela._



I don't think that these two sentences have the same meaning.
'I'm unhappy for the children to miss school'  -  No me gusta que falten a la escuela.
Estoy triste por los niños que se pierdan la escuela - Cuando los niños no pueden ir a la escuala, me provoca lástima.

But we are straying far away from the *original question* - i agree with kayokid, 'I would prefer that she didn't come to the party/I would prefer it if she didn't come....'


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## analect

Sí, me parece que todo que dijó Bevj tiene razón, pero "I would prefer that..."/"I would prefer it if..." todavía es bastante formal. Un poco más informal, y la manera en que yo diría esta idea:

"I'd rather she didn't come to the party."


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## BryanCr7Know

Es esto correcto..?

I request she (not) be here at ten
It's advisable she stop drinking that


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## Bevj

BryanCr7Know said:


> Es esto correcto..?
> 
> I request she (not) be here at ten
> It's advisable she stop drinking that



Por favor quedemos con la pregunta original - 'Prefiero que ella no venga.'
No podemos convertir el hilo en una discusión general sobre el uso del subjuntivo.


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## Sendro Páez

Un momento, me estoy haciendo un lío. Demasiados ejemplos sin asimilar:

Prefiero que ella no venga a la fiesta
I prefer she not come to the party
I would prefer (it) if she didn't come to the party [en realidad, _Lo preferiría, si ella no viniera a la fiesta_; aproximadamente igual que la frase 1]
I would prefer (it) if she wouldn't come to the party
I would prefer (that) she didn't come to the party [_Preferiría que ella no viniera a la fiesta_]
I'd rather she didn't come to the party [_Preferiría que ella no viniera a la fiesta_; ¿puede llevar un "that" antes del "she"?]​
Vale, tras las posibilidades confirmadas, ¿tiene esto algún pase?:
I prefer her not to come​


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## BryanCr7Know

Que yo sepa, esto: I prefer her not to come, es incorrecto, prefer es uno de esos verbos que si vas a decir: Prefiero que ella no venga, que yo sepa es: I prefer she not come. Que yo sepa, es de esos verbos subjuntivos o como sea.


(Aunque no se si un nativo lo entienda de esa manera, o le suena horrible o que)


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## LanguageUser1234

> I prefer her not to come.



Others may disagree, but this sentence actually sounds more-or-less okay to me.


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## BryanCr7Know

How does this *They suggested us to take a vacation. *sound to you? because on the website that I'm learning that, it says that's wrong.


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## LanguageUser1234

BryanCr7Know said:


> *They suggested us to take a vacation. *



That's definitely wrong. Needs to be "They suggested (that) we take a vacation."

Maybe I'm wrong about the previous example. Maybe some other people will express opinions.


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## analect

I agree:
1) "I prefer her not to come" - fine, though slightly stilted
2) "I prefer she not come" - sounds weird; you probably wouldn't hear this from a native speaker; I can't figure out if it's technically an error or just not the way we phrase things.
3) "I would prefer (it) if she didn't come to the party." - correct and sounds very natural
4) "I would prefer (it) if she wouldn't come to the party" - correct, i guess, but sounds a little wierd.
5) "I would prefer (that) she didn't come to the party" - correct and sounds good; slightly more formal than (3).
6) "I'd rather she didn't come to the party" - as i said before, I think this is the most common phrasing at least in spoken US English. I think you can technically add a "that" after "rather" but it's not commonly done.

Note: aunque en la oración en español tiene el verbo "preferir" en el indicativo, me parece que en ingles no solemos usar el indicativo de "prefer" para hablar sobre sucesos. Diríamos "I prefer chocolate to vanilla" pero para hablar sobre un suceso, como si una chica va a ir a una fiesta, solemos usar la forma condicional: "I *would* prefer..." o "I *would* rather...." Es por eso que phrase (1) arriba suena un poco... I don't know, abrupt, old fashioned, stilted.


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## BryanCr7Know

I can't understand, supposedly the next verbs are used with subjuntivo.

To prefer, To propose, To request, To command, To advise, To order, To ask, To suggest ,To insist, To demand.

And here It's "prefer" and "suggest" but you say "I prefer her not to come." sounds good, but "They suggested us to take a vacation" sounds wrong.

So I don't know which of these verbs I can use "I prefer her not to come" this way or "I prefer she not come", since "prefer" is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "I prefer she not come" and "suggest" also is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "They suggested we take a vacation", but you say "suggest" can't be used this way "They suggested us to take a vacation", and... You keep saying "prefer" sounds better: "I prefer she not come" and I'd think this should be wrong because of It's inside the list, but It's not. I'm very confused.


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## LanguageUser1234

Yo no creo que haya problema: tu lista me parece básicamente correcta, y si sigues esa regla no te equivocarás. Solo que para mí, en el caso específico de "to prefer", la construcción con el infinitivo no me parece necesariamente incorrecta.


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## BryanCr7Know

Ohh!! thanks, is there any other verb that is used like "prefer"?

Advise is another of them, isn't it?


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## neal41

BryanCr7Know said:


> I can't understand, supposedly the next verbs are used with subjuntivo.
> 
> To prefer, To propose, To request, To command, To advise, To order, To ask, To suggest ,To insist, To demand.
> 
> And here It's "prefer" and "suggest" but you say "I prefer her not to come." sounds good, but "They suggested us to take a vacation" sounds wrong.
> 
> So I don't know which of these verbs I can use "I prefer her not to come" this way or "I prefer she not come", since "prefer" is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "I prefer she not come" and "suggest" also is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "They suggested we take a vacation", but you say "suggest" can't be used this way "They suggested us to take a vacation", and... You keep saying "prefer" sounds better: "I prefer she not come" and I'd think this should be wrong because of It's inside the list, but It's not. I'm very confused.



I regard the following as normal, well-formed sentences:

I prefer that she not come.
I propose that she not come.
I request that she not come.
I ask that she not come.
I suggest that she not come.
I insist that she not come.
I demand that she not come.

It is better not to omit 'that'.  Contrary to the opinion of analect in #22, I think the first sentence is fully acceptable.  In the case of 'command' and 'order', I prefer the other construction.  It is necessary in the case of 'advise'.

I command her not to come.
I order her not to come.
I advise her not to come.


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## BryanCr7Know

Wow, thanks a lot, this has been the best way to explain it, with some examples, thank you.


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## neal41

There is another current thread (No es necesario que sea . . .) which deals with essentially the same issue.  Peterdg, as usual, has sound advice.  He points out that the subjunctive is little used in Britain but fairly common in the US.  If you use a verb which has different forms for the subjunctive and the indicative, then whichever form you choose will seem wrong to one or the other of the two groups.  Peter advises choosing some alternative construction.


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## analect

Oh, interesting. "I prefer that she not come" does in fact sound more British. Thanks for pointing that out, @neal41. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure "I rather that she not come" (without the "would") is nonsense. "Rather" is not a verb.

But what's the claim I made that you disagreed with? I agree that sentence (1) is fine (in #22). Do you mean sentence (2)? Maybe you're right that it's technically correct. With a "that" it actually sounds ok to me, but without the "that" I still think it sounds weird. I've been trying to separate what sounds natural from what's technically correct, but maybe it's not worth it given regional variations.

I've been thinking about "I'd rather THAT she didn't come" and I decided it sounds ok. I still think it flows better without the "that" but it's fine either way.


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## SevenDays

BryanCr7Know said:


> I can't understand, supposedly the next verbs are used with subjuntivo.
> 
> To prefer, To propose, To request, To command, To advise, To order, To ask, To suggest ,To insist, To demand.
> 
> And here It's "prefer" and "suggest" but you say "I prefer her not to come." sounds good, but "They suggested us to take a vacation" sounds wrong.
> 
> So I don't know which of these verbs I can use "I prefer her not to come" this way or "I prefer she not come", since "prefer" is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "I prefer she not come" and "suggest" also is inside list of verbs that must be used this way "They suggested we take a vacation", but you say "suggest" can't be used this way "They suggested us to take a vacation", and... You keep saying "prefer" sounds better: "I prefer she not come" and I'd think this should be wrong because of It's inside the list, but It's not. I'm very confused.



Don't expext to learn all this at once; it just takes time and patience. So-called mandative constructions (those that involve some sort of mandate/order) naturally take a "that" clause with a verb in the subjunctive (the bare infinitive). This is known as the mandative subjunctive, and it includes verbs of the type_ advise, recommend, mandate, order, request, command, propose, insist, prefer_. etc.: _I recommend that she come; I command that he stay; I insist that you sing; I prefer that she dance_. What complicates things is that all these verbs take the indicative as well, so you can say _I recommend that she come*s*; I prefer that she dance*s*_. It's pointless, I think, to try to establish when you should use the subjunctive (_I demand that she sing_) or the indicative (_I demand that she sing*s*_), because both forms can be used interchangeably, even in formal contexts. (There may be differences in American and British English, but I couldn't speak to that). And, depending on meaning, some verbs can use a "for" construction and a "that" clause interchangeably. So, you can say _I recommend that she sing_ or _I recommend for her to sing_. The question always is, when should I use "that she sing" and when "for her to sing"? That's impossible to answer; it's up to the individual. The important thing is to use "she" with "that" and "her"  with "for". But sometimes there are restrictions, also based on meaning. You can say _I prefer that she sing_ and _I prefer for her to sing _(p_refiero que ella haga algo ~ que cante_), but saying "i prefer her to sing" introduces ambiguity, because now it could be interpreted to mean that "her" is what you prefer (_prefiero que ella, y no otra persona, cante_).


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## analect

Beautiful discussion, as usual, @SevenDays.


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## BryanCr7Know

Thanks.  I already wrote my list to start


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