# feuille de chou (journal)



## Stephanagreg

Hello there,

Does anyone have an idea as to what suitable English equivalent there could be of "une feuille de chou", a French expression used to refer to a rather mediocre-quality newspaper. (Would "a rag" do the trick?)

Thanks a lot,
Stephan


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## Gil

"rag" est suggéré par Harrap's


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## angeluomo

Yes, I can confirm -- "rag" would be an appropriate translation in English.


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## zam

Yes, 'rag' is the most commonly used term in BE, also a 'fish wrapper' and 'scandal sheet' (rarer).


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## Stephanagreg

Fish wrapper is excellent! I'll remember it.
Thanks a lot.


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## zam

Stephanagreg said:
			
		

> Fish wrapper is excellent! I'll remember it.


Please bear in mind that it is not that commonly used and, out of context, might not be understood straight away !


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## Gil

Gil said:
			
		

> "rag" est suggéré par Harrap's



tant pour feuille de chou que pour canard.

Je trouve intéressant de traduire "canard" par "fish wrapper": ça s'explique, mais ce n'est pas évident à prime abord...


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## zam

'Rag' is undoubtedly far more commonly used for 'feuille de chou' or 'canard'; 'fish wrapper' was just another possibility for Steph


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## Flowers for Kartini

Hello,

Is "rag" used in an American context? I've personally never heard this word used before.

I'm trying to translate "...ancien journaliste d´une feuille de chou de l'OLP...".

I have: "former journalist of a rag of the PLO". 

Not really convinced though.


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## Hildy1

There's also "bird-cage liner".


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## Flowers for Kartini

Thanks Hildy1 for your great suggestion. Though I've never heard of it either, "bird-cage liner" brought up a strong mental image for me and seems easier to understand, so I'll go with that.


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## Soleil_Couchant

Flowers for kartini....I agree. Rag used for a lame newspaper is definitely not American English so it depends who you are translating for, which audience.  If I read rag in this context I would have zero idea what it meant.   We have ...pulp news or something but that might be more low quality, trashy or sensationalized than mediocre.  


Bird cage liner does make more sense. Vaguely familiar.


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## wildan1

I wonder if this is not generational, because I certainly have heard _rag _used for a newspaper in AE. It is certainly not a new expression!

I don't think _fish wrapper_ would be understood by most in AE;_ bird-cage liner_ even less so.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In the US at least, "gutter press" is another possibiity.


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## Soleil_Couchant

Wildan...very possible there is the generational element!


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I agree with half of w-1's latest; fish-and-chips to go wrapped in newspaper isn't common in the US, so it's more a trans-Atlantic than a cultural difference, but "bird-cage liner" reminds me of the images shown as background for the opening credits for a US TV series titled _Lou Grant_. *

*The title character was a newspaper editor-in-chief.


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## wildan1

But _gutter press_ is about the community of bad, gossip journalism--its editors, its reporters, etc. _Feuille de chou_ describes an actual newspaper.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

wildan1 said:


> But _gutter press_ is about the community of bad, gossip journalism--its editors, its reporters, etc. _Feuille de chou_ describes an actual newspaper.



A particular newspaper?


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## wildan1

_La presse à scandale_ is closer to _gutter press._

Maybe you were thinking of _scandal sheet_, ain't?


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## Mrs JJJ

In England, you might perhaps also describe it as "a tabloid".  As you probably already know, given the French equivalent, in theory, this refers to the size of the newspaper - The quality newspapers were "broadsheets" (about the size of the New York Times) and those that covered the news in less depth and tended to use simpler vocabulary were smaller, of a more manageable size , referred to as _tabloid_.  Gradually, the description "the tabloids" became widely used pejoratively, with reference to the generally less well-respected content of the papers, rather than their size. Nowadays, of course, the majority of national British newspapers are in this format, but I think that people still tend to talk about "the tabloids" when they're referring to papers that usually devote more space  to the Kardashians' latest exploits than to the intricacies of foreign policy. 

If the newspaper were local, rather than national, and thus not of high-quality,  but not necessarily sensationalist,  I think one might possibly refer to it as "a small-town newspaper".


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

wildman, Collectively, I'd say I was thinking more of "gutter press" as "sensational press" (like _Minute!) _than as "scandal sheets" (like _Paris Match_). But of course we can't say _une press à scandale_ for a particular publication.

Mrs JJJ, small-circulation publictions can be "quality" ones. [...]

Moderator note: Chat removed. Please use private Conversations for such exchanges.


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## Chimel

I'm afraid we're not quite on the right track, here. "Une feuille de chou (de l'OLP)" doesn't refer to gutter press, scandal sheet, tabloids... but primarly to some sort of obscure local newspaper. "Les nouvelles de la Charente maritime" could also be called "une feuille de chou", not because they write about the Kardashians or they have a picture of a babe on page 3, but because their headlines are for instance "Accident de tracteur à Champigny-les-Oies: 2 blessés", see? (with respect for all the people in the Charente maritime... )


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## Soleil_Couchant

"Local beat?" Not sure that has a negative connotation though.

Small time paper?  Small potatoes? Hmmmm. Neither small time nor small potatoes are specific to newspapers though, they're just implying it's not big or well known or important.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

A "beat" is what a reporter covers for a newspaper: the sports beat, the Washington (national politics) beat, etc.


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## Soleil_Couchant

Ok scratch that then!


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## wildan1

_Rag _is just slang for any type of newspaper--good, bad or otherwise.


Chimel said:


> but primarly to some sort of obscure local newspaper.


In AE that would simply be _a local rag._


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## Mrs JJJ

Chimel said:


> "Une feuille de chou (de l'OLP)" doesn't refer to gutter press, scandal sheet, tabloids... but primarly to some sort of obscure local newspaper.


Yes, that was  I wondered about, : hence my "small-town newspaper suggestion. But, as an'ttranslationfun?  pointed out, small, local papers aren't necessarily mediocre.

I like Wildan1's  "local rag" idea.  "Rag" seems to be another of those words that needs an adjective with it.  If the newspaper isn't local, I suppose that "some rag" might just work; but it's very dismissive, whereas from Chimel's clarification , it sounds as though "une feuille de chou" is gently mocking, rather than dismissive.


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## Hildy1

If the local paper is given away free, you could say "a freebie paper", "a freebie", "a local freebie".


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## Flowers for Kartini

Hi guys, sorry for my (super) late reply! Thanks a bunch for your input and interesting comments!

This is a tough one...

I just looked up _feuille de chou _and _local rag _again, and came across these entries:

1. Source: oxforddictionaries.com
*local rag*

Noun
depreciative, informal, humorous 

A local newspaper, especially one regarded as lacking quality or substance.
Origin
Mid 19th century ; earliest use found in The London Magazine.

2. Source: Wiki
*feuille de chou* \fœj də ʃu\ _féminin_

_(Familier)_ Journal, souvent de mauvaise qualité.
3. Source: linternaut.com
*feuille de chou *, locution

Sens 1
Péjoratif
*Journal*, quotidien de peu de valeur.
*Synonyme :* journal
Maybe it's indeed a generational thing WildDan1 as you had said! Though I've never heard it used before, I'll probably go with "local rag". Like Mrs JJJ, it seems like "rag" needs an adjective to go with it. "Local rag" also seems to express well the ironic sense of a journal of "lower" quality, and is slang, which is what I need for the author's tone.

That said, I think "small time paper" and "bird-cage liner" sound good too, understandable right away (for me at least! ).

A'inttranslationfun?'s idea of "a particular newspaper" would also be a practical solution.

Thanks for all your replies, now back to the grindstone! (lol)


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## wildan1

_Rag _doesn't need an adjective for this, unless it is strictly _a local rag_.  Or _a disgusting biased rag_.

But a national newspaper of low quality could indeed be simply called _a rag_.


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## Flowers for Kartini

Thank you wildan1


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