# πάλαι



## anastasia0000

Hello,

Can anyone explain the expression πάλαι? In this sentence, the expression is πάλαι ποτέ:

Με τα χρόνια η πάλαι ποτέ κορμοστασιά του, ένα και ογδόντα ύψος και γεροδεμένος, είχε κάπως ζαρώσει. 

With the years his former build, height 1"11 and strongly built, had somewhat shrivelled up. 

(The text is describing an elderly man).

Thanks!!

Anna


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## ireney

Hello!
"Πάλαι" means "long ago", "in the past" or "before". It's an ancient Greek word that doesn't appear in modern Greek outside the expression "πάλαι ποτέ". "Ποτέ" here doesn't have its modern meaning of "never" but means "οnce", "at some time", what we now use "κάποτε" for.
The expression "πάλαι πότε" means "in the past at sometime". Or, in other words, it refers to something that was X in the past in some unspecified time. Used when you want to show that quite some time has passed and things are completely different now. A really good translation would be "what used to be" (in your example : "what used to be his former strong build [...]" . Note that "κορμοστασιά" literally means the way the body stands/is and refers to a beautiful or impressive body.

Example:
Η πάλαι ποτέ πανίχυρη Ελλάδα (!) είναι τώρα μια μικρή χώρα
Ο πάλαι ποτέ διάσημος τραγουδιστής είναι εντελώς άγνωστος στη νεολαία σήμερα.


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## shawnee

Most interesting term I've not noticed before. As it sounds a little more awkward than κάποτε, I would be very interested to know when a writer would make the choice to use it and when not.


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## Δημήτρης

> I would be very interested to know when a writer would make the choice to use it and when not.


When he wants to show off his "Katharevousa" knowledge- he'll use πάλαι ποτέ and other "archaisms".


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## shawnee

Thanks Dimitri, so I conclude it is something I should avoid like the plague!


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## ireney

I'm afraid I disagree with Dimitris. A simple Internet search will provide you with lots of examples where the expression is used. Including all of the newspapers  Note that it is quite possible that this is not the case is Cyprus of course!


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## Akritas

I am afraid I will disagree with Dimitris, too. Firstly, 'Πάλαι ποτέ' is not a rare expression used for 'showing off' and secondly, whether it is archaic or modern, language in general can be beautiful. Let's not be critical of the use of katharevousa or archaic Greek, especially since we all use ancient Greek on a regular basis with humdreds of expressions such as 'τοις εκατό', 'ανέκαθεν', 'μολών λαβέ' κλπ κλπ κλπ.


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## Δημήτρης

I put the  for a reason. 
I just think that the phrase is *over*used, especially by a) journalists b) random people in Greek webforums. Both of them throw archaic-sounding words on every single chance without knowing the actual meaning.


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## shawnee

Wonderful discussion. So if it is the case that the expression is used with real purpose, I continue to wonder when does a writer elect to use it. What is the nuanced difference between it and κάποτε that would make it a more appropriate choice in some instances?


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## antimatter

shawnee said:


> Wonderful discussion. So if it is the case that the expression is used with real purpose, I continue to wonder when does a writer elect to use it. What is the nuanced difference between it and κάποτε that would make it a more appropriate choice in some instances?



I think someone chooses this expression, when he wants to use a better language.
Also, when he wants to emphasize that once (only then and *unfortunately* not now) something was like that.
When you use this expression, the meaning is that you are evoking (nice) memories of things or facts, which no longer exist (maybe also used to render *decay*). While we cannot say the same thing about "κάποτε", its synonym, because its meaning is straightforward and does not imply such things.


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## shawnee

Yes, I think I've got it now. This positive, almost yearning nuance is evident in Ireny's examples but I didn't see it till your very fine explanation antimatter. All I have to do now is to be on the look out for the opportunity to apply it somewhere. Thank you.


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