# Mitbringen vs. kaufen



## Hutschi

From Die Mutter bringt der Tochter Bonbons mit. (wrong?)

Kaufen is "to buy something".
Mitbringen is according to Duden:
Duden | mitbringen | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme

(mit sich tragend, bei sich habend) an einen bestimmten Ort, eine bestimmte Stelle bringen
als Voraussetzung haben, aufweisen, bei etwas einbringen
In the context of 1 it is pragmatically often used for to buy something. Example:
I'll go into a shop and my wife asks me at home: "Bringst du bitte ein Brot mit?" - Pragmatically it means: "Please buy a bread."


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## twinklestar

Thank you very much for being so serious about my questions all the time, and creating this thread for me. I am moved.


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## bearded

In my language it is the same:  _Ti ho portato un regalo _(= ich hab dir ein Geschenk (mit) gebracht) usually also means ''I have bought a gift for you, and here it is''. The verb _portare _= (mit)bringen does, of course, not always mean 'to buy':  it just implicitly means it in that particular context.


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## perpend

I agree with Hutschi and bearded.

From what I have heard in the Bavarian dialect/accent (we have to tread lightly now  in light of recent threads), "mitbringen" is very much meant as "kaufen" in many contexts.


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## Kajjo

Hutschi, I don't agree. This is just irritating for learners. Keep it simple and straight, please.

 "Mitbringen" simply means to bring with you. 

"Bringst du bitte noch Brot mit?" might imply that you get some from you own stock at home, and yes, it might imply to buy some. But "mitbringen" never means "to buy", it just implies a possible solution logically. 

So, the focus should be that Germans not always talk about the process of purchase if they want to have something. They might just talk about bringing it or having it brought. Whereever it comes from.


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## Dan2

perpend said:


> From what I have heard in the Bavarian dialect/accent (we have to tread lightly now  in light of recent threads), "mitbringen" is very much meant as "kaufen" in many contexts.


To help calibrate this... If I visited you and as I entered I said (in English), "I've brought you a present!" would that imply "bought" to you?  I would say: from a practical point of view, we normally BUY the gifts we bring, but not necessarily: I might have something around the house that I know you'd like; I'd still say, "I've brought you a present!".  So I would definitely not say that English "bring (with)" implies "buy".  Is German "mitbringen" as "kaufen" more than just this "statistically, most gifts are bought"?  Question directed at perpend and Hutschi.  (Sounds like Kajjo would say no.)

EDIT:


Hutschi said:


> I'll go into a shop and my wife asks me at home: "Bringst du bitte ein Brot mit?" - Pragmatically it means: "Please buy a bread."


Exactly the same if I'm at the supermarket and my wife calls and says, "And bring back a loaf of bread".  But that doesn't mean that "bring" MEANS "buy".  Suppose a friend has bought several loaves of a special type of bread he likes and knows we like.  I visit the friend.  Now exactly the same sentence from my wife has no implication of "to buy".


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## Kajjo

Definitely no. I agree with you, Dan. The situation is very similar in English. Statistically, _mitbringen_ und _kaufen_ might often fit together, but the meaning of the verbs are clearly defined and different.

_Denkst du dran, meine Jacke mitzubringen? (die ich bei dir vergessen hatte)
Denkst du dran, das silberne Tablett mitzubringen? (das du Weihnachten immer mitbringst)
Denkst du dran, an Silvester zwölf Berliner mitzubringen? (die du kaufen musst)_

Je länger man drüber nachdenkt, desto mehr Situationen fallen mir ein, in denen _mitbringen _nichts mit _kaufen _zu tun hat, und selbst wenn es _kaufen _impliziert, bedeutet es eben nur _mitbringen_.

I am convinced, _bringen_ in all its variations is a very fundamental word in German and so it is used to express or imply many other things. The fundamental meaning of _to bring_ is not altered, though.


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## Frieder

In the region around Koblenz/Rhine (Rhineland-Palatinate) they call it _holen_.

Ich habe mir ein neues Auto geholt. (I bought a new car)
Kannst du unterwegs noch ein paar Brötchen holen. (Would you buy some rolls on the way)
(These examples were - of  course - translated into standard German)

Every region has its term for _kaufen_. Some say _mitbringen_, some say _holen_, some say _kaufen_ or _besorgen _or even _einholen_.

On the other hand _etwas mitbringen _can be _to bring something_ and _holen_ can be _to fetch/collect something_. _Besorgen_ can mean multiple things ... It all depends on context (doesn't it always?).


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## twinklestar

Thank you very much for your input, everyone.


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## berndf

Kajjo said:


> Definitely no. I agree with you, Dan. The situation is very similar in English. Statistically, _mitbringen_ und _kaufen_ might often fit together, but the meaning of the verbs are clearly defined and different.
> 
> _Denkst du dran, meine Jacke mitzubringen? (die ich bei dir vergessen hatte)
> Denkst du dran, das silberne Tablett mitzubringen? (das du Weihnachten immer mitbringst)
> Denkst du dran, an Silvester zwölf Berliner mitzubringen? (die du kaufen musst)_
> 
> Je länger man drüber nachdenkt, desto mehr Situationen fallen mir ein, in denen _mitbringen _nichts mit _kaufen _zu tun hat, und selbst wenn es _kaufen _impliziert, bedeutet es eben nur _mitbringen_.
> 
> I am convinced, _bringen_ in all its variations is a very fundamental word in German and so it is used to express or imply many other things. The fundamental meaning of _to bring_ is not altered, though.


All of this is not a valid criticism of what Hutschi said. Admittedly, I would have phrased the whole thing differently, because the correctness of what he said hinges on a single word that can easily be overlooked or misunderstood by people less steadfast in linguistic terminology:_ pragmatically_. In Linguistics, _pragmatic _designates those implications of an utterance that go beyond semantics and only exist in the precise context in which the utterance is made.


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## Hutschi

In many cases it is, it depends on context.
For example, my wife would say:
_Bringst du bitte aus dem Konsum Butter mit?_
It means: to buy and take it home.
If she asks:
_"Bringst du bitte aus unserem Garten Blumen mit?"_
It means to cut them, bind them and take them home.

Pragmatically both questions are polite forms of an order. Syntactically they are questions.

If I order something in Amazon, for example, I'd not use "mitbringen" but "bestellen".
In this case "Bestellen" includes pragmatically "to buy".

If I say "to buy" it may mean that I do not take it home.
Example:
I buy a peace of butter for my brother. Could you bring it to him?
In this case "kaufen" does not include "mitbringen" and vice versum.

In many cases both are together. The context makes it clear.

Without context "Ich bringe es mit" only means "I'll bring it when I'll come to you."

Mitbringen means/includes kaufen, if you can replace it by:
"kaufe es und bringe es mit".


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> In many cases it is, it depends on context.
> For example, my wife would say:
> _Bringst du bitte aus dem Konsum Butter mit?_
> It means: to buy and take it home.
> If she asks:
> _"Bringst du bitte aus unserem Garten Blumen mit?"_
> It means to cut them, bind them and take them home.
> 
> Pragmatically both questions are polite forms of an order. Syntactically they are questions.
> 
> If I order something in Amazon, for example, I'd not use "mitbringen" but "bestellen".
> In this case "Bestellen" includes pragmatically "to buy".
> 
> If I say "to buy" it may mean that I do not take it home.
> Example:
> I buy a peace of butter for my brother. Could you bring it to him?
> In this case "kaufen" does not include "mitbringen" and vice versum.
> 
> In many cases both are together. The context makes it clear.
> 
> Without context "Ich bringe es mit" only means "I'll bring it when I'll come to you."
> 
> Mitbringen means/includes kaufen, if you can replace it by:
> "kaufe es und bringe es mit".


No, it doesn't work like that. You are confounding semantic meaning of a word in an inappropriate way with pragmatic meaning of an utterances. I am with Kajjo here, this is more confusing than helpful.

Suppose one wants to convey the message "if and when you are in the supermarket for other reasons then buying butter then buy some butter as well and bring it back home".

Because much what is said in this sentence can trivially be inferred from the other parts, not from the semantics of the words but from shared practical knowledge how shopping works, one can either omit "buy" or "bring" from the above sentence without losing any practical information.

And this is the reason why "Wenn du Einkaufen gehst, bring mir Butter mit" and "Wenn du Einkaufen gehst, kauf auch noch Butter" convey the same message and not because "mitbringen" and "kaufen" all of a sudden meant the same thing.


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## Kajjo

Frieder said:


> Ich habe mir ein neues Auto geholt. Kannst du unterwegs noch ein paar Brötchen holen.


Interestingly enough, this works in Hamburg, too. At least "Brötchen holen" is absolute standard here.


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## berndf

Frieder said:


> Every region has its term for _kaufen_. Some say _mitbringen_, some say _holen_, some say _kaufen_ or _besorgen _or even _einholen_.





Kajjo said:


> Interestingly enough, this works in Hamburg, too. At least "Brötchen holen" is absolute standard here.


I don't think there is anything regional about this. You say "Ich hole Brot", if this is the reason why you leave the house and you say "Ich bringe Brot mit", if you leave the house for another reason and you buy some bread on the way. This works in every region.


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## perpend

But with Frieder's another example "Ich habe mir ein neues Auto geholt", I think it's strongly implied that you bought a new car.

I couldn't see this as "I fetched myself a new car".  (Although you might hear that in Texas (or in the south of the USA), to mean "buy a new car". It would probably be more like "I done fetched myself some new wheels".   I digress (a little)).

Meanings/definitions are of course in dictionary, but couldn't we agree that with "mitbringen" and "holen" the implied meaning is sometimes to buy something?


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## Hutschi

perpend said:


> But with Frieder's another example "Ich habe mir ein neues Auto geholt", I think it's strongly implied that you bought a new car.
> ...
> 
> Meanings/definitions are of course in dictionary, but couldn't we agree that with "mitbringen" and "holen" the implied meaning is sometimes to buy something?



I think the same way.

I just see the Duden gives as one of the meanings:

Duden | holen | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme, Herkunft

holen:

(landschaftlich) kaufen
mitbringen:
Duden | mitbringen | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme

hast du Brot, etwas zu essen mitgebracht _(beim Einkaufen besorgt)_?


In "Holst du mir ein neues Auto?" usually "mitbringen" and "kaufen" are included. In "Kaufst du mir ein neues Auto?" this can or cannot include the transport.


> I don't think there is anything regional about this. You say "Ich hole Brot", if this is the reason why you leave the house and you say "Ich bringe Brot mit", if you leave the house for another reason and you buy some bread on the way. This works in every region.


I fully agree.

---
If context is "ich gehe in die Küche und hole Brot",  "kaufen" is not included, however.
---

(edit: I added Duden Meanings)


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## perpend

Hutschi said:


> If context is "ich gehe in die Küche und hole Brot", "kaufen" is not included, however.



That was an early X-mas "Lacher" / gift for me, Hutschi! Merci dir. Das war witzig!


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## Hutschi

Some onliner sellers want to change this.


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## perpend

Ich kaufe es denen nicht ab.


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> In "Holst du mir ein neues Auto?" usually "mitbringen" and "kaufen" are included.


No!

_Bringen_ may be included not _*mit*bringen_. You are not doing anything else with which you combine the action. This is precisely the meaning of the *mit *in _mitbringen_ that it is not the original reason for the action but that you are doing the_ bringing_ as a "while I am on my way anyway" ("wo ich sowieso dort hin gehe") side action.


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## Hutschi

> In "Holst du mir ein neues Auto?" usually "mitbringen" and "kaufen" are included.


 in context "to buy".


At least in my knowledge "mitbringen" is not necessarily related to other things to bring with.
It does not even require that I want to go into the shop at first place.
If my wife says: "Bringe bitte Brot mit." it just means that she asks me to buy bread and bring it home. To fit it only requires thar I come from somewhere and  can reach the shop near my way.

Ich kenne "mitbringen"  ohne dass unbedingt noch andere Sachen mitgebracht werden müssen.
"Mit" ist oft redundant, speziell wenn es nur um Transport geht.

"Bringst du mir bitte einen Kaffee?" you will go and the main purpose is to bring coffee,
"Bringst du mir bitte einen Kaffee mit?" you will go to do something and the second porpuse will be to bring coffee.
If it is from an coffee automat for selling coffee, it includes to buy it in both cases.


In case of a car it is only possible to say "bringst du mir ein Auto mit?"
if it is a toy, or if I have a driving licence, but it will be very seldom in the second case. So I can assume that it is a toy.
To buy a car (with its high price) it would be very seldom to say "bringst du mir ein Auto mit?" with the high price involved to ask for buying it.

But you can say: "Holst du mir das neue Auto?" referring to a "real" one.
This includes: 1. I buy it, 2. I transport it (bringen/mitbringen), 3. I have a driving lizence.


My problem is here in our discussion that I have to switch from "classic" mode where I can assume that the main meaning is known and we agree to it, to another mode where I have to explain exceptions, abd these can cause additional exceptions. This is a rather hard mode usually used for example in courts.
I prefer classic mode, that includes some shared knowledge about the world. 
---
"Bringen" is a rather general word and can be modified.
mitbringen (can include "kaufen")
herbringen (does not include kaufen in classic mode)


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> If my wife says: "Bringe bitte Brot mit." it just means that she asks me to buy bread and bring it home. To fit it only requires thar I come from somewhere and can reach the shop near my way.


I don't know you wife but I would bet a relatively large sum that she say this *only* if she has reason to presuppose that you pass by the the shop/kitchen, etc. anyhow.

If she want you to get up from you chair which you have no reason to leave for the sole reason of getting some bread she would say _Hol/Bring mir Brot vom Bäcker/aus der Küche, etc._ But she would certainly not use _mitbringen_.

It is actually a very perfidious way of coercing someone to get up when oneself is to lazy for it: _Ach Schatz, Du gehst doch sicher in die Küche, dann kannst Du mit gleich etwas Brot mitbringen_.


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## Hutschi

berndf said:


> I don't know you wife but I would bet a relatively large sum that she say this *only* if she has reason to presuppose that you pass by the the shop/kitchen, etc. anyhow.
> 
> If she want you to get up from you chair which you have no reason to leave for the sole reason of getting some bread she would say _Hol/Bring mir Brot vom Bäcker/aus der Küche, etc._ But she would certainly not use _mitbringen_.
> 
> It is actually a very perfidious way of coercing someone to get up when oneself is to lazy for it: _Ach Schatz, Du gehst doch sicher in die Küche, dann kannst Du mit gleich etwas Brot mitbringen_.


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