# Urdu - Persian: 'Ishq shava mushq shava xushaamdeed e marHaba



## urdustan

Do the above lyrics qualify as Urdu or are they more the domain of Persian?  What do they mean?  Thank you!


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## Alfaaz

3ishq: عشق (derived from Arabic): used extensively in Urdu
mushk: مشک (derived from Farsi): used extensively in Urdu
xush-aamadeed: خوش آمدید (derived from Farsi): used extensively in Urdu
marHabaa: مرحبا (derived from Arabic): used frequently in Urdu

You will most likely be familiar with all of the above (since you have Urdu listed as one of your native language) and would also know that a plethora of examples from literature and songs could be cited for each word!

_shava_ seems to be a possible source of confusion (on various lyrics sites, etc.): 

Some suggest that this is a modified pronunciation of _shaawa_ from Punjabi...similar to _bale bale_!
Some suggest that this is_ "an Urdu/Persian word meaning cure"_
Others add that it might be an echo word from _"dawaa-shawaa"_

Some suggest that this is a Farsi/Dari word meaning _"to happen - ho jaa'e"_
Let's see what other forum members suggest!


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## Qureshpor

urdustan said:


> Do the above lyrics qualify as Urdu or are they more the domain of Persian?  What do they mean?  Thank you!


Well, the song is a from a Hindi film. I don't know if any of our Hindi speaking friends can shed some light on the lyric writer (Gulzar)'s mindset.

The answer to your first question is yes. For the second, here is one possible explanation . I might return to this later.

pyaar bhaTak hai rahaa (Love is wandering)
mushk bikhar  hai rahaa  (Musk is drifting)
xushaamaded marHabaa (Welcome, welcome)


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## Sheikh_14

Alfaaz said:


> _shava_ seems to be a possible source of confusion (on various lyrics sites, etc.):
> 
> Some suggest that this is a modified pronunciation of _shaawa_ from Punjabi...similar to _bale bale_!
> Some suggest that this is_ "an Urdu/Persian word meaning cure"_
> Others add that it might be an echo word from _"dawaa-shawaa"_
> 
> Some suggest that this is a Farsi/Dari word meaning _"to happen - ho jaa'e"_
> Let's see what other forum members suggest!



From my understanding, shava here atleast is moreso referring to a cure since Shahrukh is expressing his affection for Katrina and the spontaneous nature of love. Perhaps shava has something to do with shifa?

The alternative to Bale Bale is Shaava Shaava the 'a' sound in that is extended. Hope that helps


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## Qureshpor

^ I thought "bale bale" means "slowly/gently". And you are right the Panjabi word is "shaavaa". Persian word for "cure" that I am aware of is "darmaan". I don't know how "shavaa" would fit into "cure".


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> ^ I thought "bale bale" means "slowly/gently".


I'm sure you are correct on this with your attachment to vital details. I think Alfaaz meant to write _ba*ll*e-ba*ll*e_, with a geminated ''_laam_'' (with _tashdiid_). It would then be similar to the function of _shaavaa, _but I'm of course not sure of it. Just speculation.


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## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> I think Alfaaz meant to write _ba*ll*e-ba*ll*e_, with a geminated ''_laam_'' (with _tashdiid_). It would then be similar to the function of _shaavaa, _but I'm of course not sure of it. Just speculation.


Yes, it is supposed to be ba*ll*e ba*ll*e! (Copy-pasted the different suggestions while going through various websites/comments on the lyrics and didn't notice the typo.) Apart from this, do you have any comments on_ shava_ as used in the lyrics?

There is another typo: _language_ → _languages_


			
				Qureshpor said:
			
		

> For the second, here is one possible explanation . I might return to this later.
> 
> pyaar bhaTak hai rahaa (Love is wandering)
> mushk bikhar hai rahaa (Musk is drifting)


Qureshpor SaaHib, could you shed some light upon this interpretation and usage?


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## urdustan

"shavaa" is what confused me most too.  Lyrics sites translate it as "cure" but I don't think that can be right.  "shifaa" (or "shafaa") is the closest word meaning "cure".


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## Qureshpor

urdustan said:


> "shavaa" is what confused me most too. Lyrics sites translate it as "cure" but I don't think that can be right. "shifaa" (or "shafaa") is the closest word meaning "cure".


And you would agree if "shifaa/shafaa" was meant, then there would be no need to write (and sing) "shavaa". Please note that at no time do either of the two singers utter the Panajbi word "shaavaa". I have n't got a clue why the various sites on the net are going for "cure". If 3ishq is a cure, then is musk also a cure? Normally, in Urdu poetry, 3ishq is not a cure but a disease (maraz/rog)!



Alfaaz said:


> [...] Qureshpor SaaHib, could you shed some light upon this interpretation and usage?


Frankly, I have not come across this word before and as there has been no response from any Persian or Hindi speakers, I suspect they have n't heard it either. I would not class Gulzar's creation a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination.

One dictionary gives شوا as a corrupted form of نا شنوا ultimately meaning "deaf". This meaning to my mind does not quite fit 3ishq and mushk. Love can be blind or even deaf but can musk be deaf too?

Another dictionary gives the meaning of بے راہ شوا as "wandering" and "straying". I thought Gulzar might have had this in mind. It's all conjecture, I am afraid.

Now, تیرے کلیجے نوں لونڑ لا کے کھاواں۔۔۔...any views?


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## urdustan

Qureshpor said:


> And you would agree if "shifaa/shafaa" was meant, then there would be no need to write (and sing) "shavaa". Please note that at no time do either of the two singers utter the Panajbi word "shaavaa". I have n't got a clue why the various sites on the net are going for "cure". If 3ishq is a cure, then is musk also a cure? Normally, in Urdu poetry, 3ishq is not a cure but a disease (maraz/rog)!



I do agree. "Cure" doesn't make sense to me!



Qureshpor said:


> Another dictionary gives the meaning of بے راہ شوا as "wandering" and "straying". I thought Gulzar might have had this in mind. It's all conjecture, I am afraid.



This could be it. I also like Alfaaz SaaHeb's suggestion of an echo word.


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## Qureshpor

urdustan said:


> This could be it.  I also like Alfaaz SaaHeb's suggestion of an echo word.


I very much doubt it. If this were so, from an Urdu perspective we would have 3ishq/vishq, mushk/vushk and from a Punjabi point of view...3ishq/shishq, mushk/shushk!


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## mundiya

I agree with you Quresh SaaHib that "shavaa" is most likely derived from a Persian word and the meanings you suggested (drifting/wandering) seem appropriate for the context.  I guess it's a newcomer to Hindi films because I have never heard it used before.


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## desi4life

Hello,

I found these entries in a Farsi dictionary.

*shawā*, Existing; deaf

*shav, shū *(imp. of shudan), Be, exist; be thou; (in comp.) being, existing

So, "ishq shavaa mushk shavaa" would mean "love exists, fragrance exists."  Any thoughts on this interpretation?  Is it valid?

Are shawaa/shav present in both types of Farsi (Classical & Modern) and in Urdu?

Thanks.


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## mundiya

^ The interpretation seems valid to me.  Let's see what Urdu and Farsi speakers think.


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## desi4life

Thank you, mundiya.  I hope Urdu speakers can provide their thoughts about this too.


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## Qureshpor

^ I have seen the entry from Steingass that you quoted in post 13. Frankly, I fail to see how "shav-aa" from "shudan" (to become/to go" (on the pattern of daan-aa, from daanistan to know) can imply "existing". I am not aware of the existence of "shavaa" in Urdu. If there is anyone who lives close to Mr. Gulzar, it would be nice if he could be asked the source of his inspiration.


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## Sheikh_14

Perhaps the better question here is does such a connotation exist in farsi, so that we can puzzle out the validity of the claim. For this reason I believe the forum should be inclusive of both Persian and Urdu.


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> ^ I have seen the entry from Steingass that you quoted in post 13. Frankly, I fail to see how "shav-aa" from "shudan" (to become/to go" (on the pattern of daan-aa, from daanistan to know) can imply "existing". I am not aware of the existence of "shavaa" in Urdu. If there is anyone who lives close to Mr. Gulzar, it would be nice if he could be asked the source of his inspiration.



Thank you, Qureshpor. What would be the correct definition of  "shavaa" if the definition of "existing" provided by Steingass is  wrong?


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## desi4life

Sheikh_14 said:


> Perhaps the better question here is does such a connotation exist in farsi, so that we can puzzle out the validity of the claim. For this reason I believe the forum should be inclusive of both Persian and Urdu.



I agree.  I welcome responses to my queries from Persian speakers in addition to Urdu speakers and anyone else who wants to give their input.


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## Jashn

There are many more Persian posters active lately, and I, too, have puzzled over this song since it came out. Would any of our Persian speaking friends be willing to comment?


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> Another dictionary gives the meaning of بے راہ شوا as "wandering" and "straying". I thought Gulzar might have had this in mind. It's all conjecture, I am afraid.


لغتنامه دهخدا Dehkhoda gives the meaning of شَوا as شَوَنده = is "becoming، in the make", thence 'existing' perhaps.
شوا. [ ش َ ] (نف ) شونده . (ناظم الاطباء).


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> لغتنامه دهخدا Dehkhoda gives the meaning of شَوا as شَوَنده = is "becoming، in the make", thence 'existing' perhaps.
> شوا. [ ش َ ] (نف ) شونده . (ناظم الاطباء).


Quite possible marrish SaaHib. One would think that this word would make perfect sense to a Persian speaker. But no Persian speaker on this forum has paid the slightest bit of interest in this thread! And frankly, I am not surprised. Just take a look at this "blog", if this is what it is. The writer, I assume a Persian speaker, is saying that.....

اینه که یه ویدیوی رقص آپلود کردم از فیلم

Jab Tak Hai Jaan با اسم Ishq Shava

(که اگر درست فهمیده باشم یعنی *عشق همه چیزه(؟*

It is this that I uploaded a dance video from the film "Jab Tak Hai Jaan" called Ishq Shava, which if I have understood correctly means "Ishq is everything"(?)

Now, if a Persian speaker is not sure what this means, then what chance do we mortals have?

عشق شوا - نانوشتهـ‌هایـ یکـ‌انسانـ


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## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> (که اگر درست فهمیده باشم یعنی *عشق همه چیزه(؟*


I was intrigued so I watched the video, the English subtitles say 'Love is All' for Ishq Shava which is what that guy has translated to Persian, as you have gathered.

I have never seen or heard شَوا used in Persian.


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