# Icelandic: rígskorðuð / stöðubundinn



## Alxmrphi

Sæl verið þið,

Ég er að lesa um hljóðdvalarbreytinguna sem breytti íslenska sérhljóðakerfinu á 15/16. öld, og það er par orða sem mér virðast vera andstæður og ég er alveg ruglaður um hvernig maður á að þýða þau yfir á ensku, þó held ég að skilja merkingarnar á íslensku.



> ¨Í því sérhljóðakerfi sem fyrsti málfræðingurinn lýsir eru sérhljóð ýmist löng eða stutt.  Þessi lengd var *rígskorðuð*:¤far = stutt a
> ¤fár = langt a​ ¨Í nútímamáli er lengdin hins vegar *stöðubundin*:¤una = langt u af því að stutt samhljóð er á eftir
> ¤unna = stutt u af því að langt samhljóð er á eftir​



Í fyrstu hugsaði ég að það gætir verið bara "fixed" og "free", en mér sýnist kannski að íslensku orðin merkja meira, og að það væru betri orð að nota.
Haldiði að það væri í lagi nota "fixed/free" í þessu samhengi? "variable/static" ? Er ég að misskilja eitthvað?

Takk fyrirfram,
Alx


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## Tazzler

If I understand correctly, then then in the modern language vowel length is conditioned by whether the following consonant is short or long. "stöðubundinn" translates literally as "position-bound." I can't think of any good English equivalent for that. "rígskorðaður" seems to mean that vowels were long in their own right, while "stöðubundinn" seems to mean that vowel length is phonetically conditioned to correspond to the following consonant length.

I don't know if "fixed" and "free" are the best terms, although "free" in my opinion makes more sense as in the old vowel system a vowel was free to be short or long independently of whether the following consonant was short or long (as I understood it).


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## Alxmrphi

I actually think* conditioned* might be an excellent choice for stöðubundinn in this context.
But to fit the other one "This length was....." still escapes me.
The bold parts are present in the document, not my additions, and the way everything else has been presented, that is usually to be taken as the authors are expressing opposites, so I think... "This length was unconditioned (could occur in multiple environments)" is not a bad choice either. Though I think you'd be more likely to hear "free" in English, as the whole complementary distrubtion is usually explained as sounds being not in free-variation, which indeed is an "unconditioned environment".

I got the breakdown of stöðubundinn, but not rígskorðaður, I couldn't split it up and get a sort of gloss as to what the meaning is. Can you see any?
I only came to understand it through seeing it in bold and realising it was an opposite relation to what  stöðubundinn meant.

Thanks for chipping in again


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## Tazzler

Actually I think "rígskorðaður" might mean something similar to "fixed" in a normal context, but I can't figure out a good linguistic translation here!


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## Alxmrphi

Tazzler said:


> Actually I think "rígskorðaður" might mean something similar to "fixed," but I too can't figure out a good English translation.


Really?
I got the opposite impression, that in the same environment (after 'f' and before 'r') both a long or a short vowel could exist, it wasn't subject to any rules that "fixed" it (i.e. short consonant following it so it should be long), like in Modern Icelandic. So the length wasn't ... I mean, there was no rule governing the length of what it had to be, so being relatively unfixed. How do you interpret it?


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## Tazzler

Ugh, ég veit ekki! The point is that in mdoern Icelandic vowel length is determined by consonant length but that was not the case in Old Norse/Icelandic. As for the specific terms, let's wait for the resident Icelanders for further explanations but essentially we know what he means!


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## sindridah

Alex could you please ask question which is within my box of capability to answer!, but skorða means similar like fasten, to fasten something, somewhere in that direction. að vera/to be skorðaður means to be stuck.


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## Alxmrphi

sindridah said:


> Alex could you please ask question which is within my box of capability to answer!, but skorða means similar like fasten, to fasten something, somewhere in that direction. að vera/to be skorðaður means to be stuck.


 I promise the next one will be!
But yeah, your post backs up what Tazzler was saying before in #4, so that's helpful to know


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## NoMoreMrIceGuy

Skorðað = Wedged.
Rígskorðað = Firmly wedged.


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## Alxmrphi

NoMoreMrIceGuy said:


> Skorðað = Wedged.
> Rígskorðað = Firmly wedged.



Hve myndirðu túlka "*Þessi lengd var* *rígskorðuð*" í þessu samhengi NMMIG?
"This length was firmly wedged" er pínulitið furðulegt fyrir mig.


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## Gavril

Is this a word that is often used in linguistic descriptions? For example, does it sound normal to say,

_Orðskipan í ensku er rígskorðuð vegna þess að fallbeyging er ekki til í ensku.
_
"Word-order in English is rigidly set because there is no case-inflection in English."


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