# Pronunciação: liaison



## vozbox

In Portuguese, do words ending in 'm' or 'n' (particularly verbs) form _liaisons_ with subsequent words beginning with vowels, as is the case in French?

For example, I know that the 'm' in 'estudam' is silent, but if you were to say "Estudam as línguas românicas," is the 'm' voiced?  What about the 'm' in "Escreve*m* uma tese"?   

Muito obrigado,
vozbox


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## gabrielnd

Well, there isn't an implicit liaison, for instance: if you read "Estudam as línguas", then you should speak both 'Estudam' and 'as' without any liaison. The same applies for your second example.

In the other hand, if you want to ommit the object "as línguas" and use just "as" instead, then the verb will be written like this:

Estudam-nas.

which is kind of a liaison, but it is explicit in the construction of the verb.


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## Nonstar

Adding to gabriel:

I'm not an expert, but just a speaker.
It won't work like French or English, they form a different liaison, in my opinion. If you know how _nenhuma_ sounds, it will help you. 
The sound in _Escrevem uma tese_, it would be like _escrevenhuma_, same sound as in _nenhuma_: nem uma. 
If we took another example, _falam inglês_, there wouldn't be the same kind of liaison. 
To me it seems that the only that will form a kind of liaison, are those verbs ending in _em_. 
So, if you have the verb ending in _em_, there will be this kind of liaison, 
_-nha, -nhe, -nhi, -nho, -nhu._
I cannot see this same phenomenon with verbs ending in _am_.


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## GOODVIEW

Perhaps an easy way to explain how we pronounce the m at the end of a word is to say that we never close our lips like one does in English or French. So you would never say escrevem_mumatese but escrevem_nhumatese, like Nonstar already put it. 

On ne fait jamais la liaison!


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## gabrielnd

Great thought about the way _nenhuma _sounds. But keep in mind that this is a natural liaison brought through fast speech of the phrase above, you should not force it.


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## almufadado

vozbox said:


> In Portuguese, do words ending in 'm' or 'n' (particularly verbs) form _liaisons_ with subsequent words beginning with vowels, as is the case in French?
> 
> For example, I know that the 'm' in 'estudam' is silent, but if you were to say "Estudam as línguas românicas," is the 'm' voiced?  What about the 'm' in "Escreve*m* uma tese"?
> 
> Muito obrigado,
> vozbox



We call it "contrações" (contração). "il n'a pas"  or "can't"  

In "Estudam" the last syllable (dam)  the "m" is not mute it has the same sound as "dão". Yes, you do not read it an isolated  "m" because it projects the "a" sound" .... if it was mute you would read "estuda"
eu estudo (u)
tu estudas (as)
ele estuda (a)
eles estudam (ão -> a quick aum)

The same applies to all word that end in "m" where the last vowel is modified.

In oral language is common to join adjacent vowels, better yet to "eat"  them (either to ignore them or to not doing the repetition).    

In written language the only time were there liaisons betwwen  independent words is in few cases like:

De água -> d'água
de onde -> d'onde (ancient) -> it became "donde" 
de hoje -> d'hoje (ancient)

In the name os places/towns
de Arcos de Valdevez -> D'Arcos de Valdevez
Paço d'Arcos (ancient)  -> Paço de Arcos  http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paço_de_Arcos

See this threads:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1808846
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1807562&highlight=pronunciation
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1668969&highlight=pronunciation


About liaisons:
In português of Portugal that phenomena of  is rare because most liaisons have already been establish and integrated in the lexicon. This is called words formed by "aglutinação" or by "justaposição".

There are certain word that alread result from 2 or more  "glued" word. 
Isto é chamado de *aglutinação* que acontece quando os elementos de uma palavra composta estão  tão intimamente ligados, que se perde a noção de que já foram palavras  independentes. 

girassol (gira ao sol -> gira sol -> gira-sol -> girassol )
-> it went from a phrase, to a "justaposição" and end up being officially a "aglutinação" 

 passatempo (passar o tempo)

contramão (pt-br)

Estas palavras também podem ser formadas por
-> prefixação
   autoestrada 
automóvel
anticorrupção (pt-br e pt-pt)
indiferente ( prefixo de negação "in" + diferente)
hipótese ( prefixo grego hipo + tese)
hipertensão (prefixo aumentativo hiper + tensão
hipermercado (went from hiper mercado -> hiper-mercado -> hipermercado)

->sufixação
*-ato, -eto,  -ito, *-ismo, -íssimo,
cloro -> clorato
cloro -> cloreto
cloro -> clorito
capital -> capitalismo 
general -> generalíssimo

When the word are "glued" together but they remain destinct
Quando a autonomia de cada membro da palavra composta  ainda pode ser identificada foneticamente estamos perante *justaposição*.

contra-ordenação 
contra-mão (pt-pt)
faz-tudo
anti-corrupção (pt-pt)
apanha-bolas
abre-latas 
dia-a-dia

or quite as a joke :
faz-que-faz-mas-não-faz ))


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## Doctorr

Hi everyone, I've just started to study Portuguese. 
If we are talking about the Portuguese nasalization in the context other then liaison: 
a vowel+N/M (their nasalizing function)+ a consonant, so should N or M be pronounced or shouldn't? E.g., 
tanto - tãntu or tãtu
quente - quẽnchi or quẽchi (English sound ch)
quando - quãndu or quãdu
tempo - tẽmpu or tẽpu
sim - sĩm or sĩ
falam - fãlam or falã

?
Thanx in advance)


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## almufadado

Doctorr said:


> Hi everyone, I've just started to study Portuguese.
> If we are talking about the Portuguese nasalization in the context other then liaison:
> a vowel+N/M (their nasalizing function)+ a consonant, so should N or M be pronounced or shouldn't? E.g.,
> tanto - tãntu or tãtu
> quente - quẽnchi or quẽchi (English sound ch = Brazil accent) quẽte (pt.pt)
> quando - quãndu or quãdu
> tempo - tẽmpu or tẽpu
> sim - sĩm or sĩ
> falam - fãlam or falã
> 
> ?
> Thanx in advance)



an -> ã = ã ( (with more or less emphasis , an more or less prolongued )
am -> ão = ão (aum)


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## gabrielnd

Almafudado, i didn't get your correction to words like quando, tanto, tempo; all of them have  a good pronounciation of the n/m consonants. I thought to strike exactly the other options, like tãtu, which sounds wrong to me.


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## almufadado

gabrielnd said:


> Almafudado, i didn't get your correction to words like quando, tanto, tempo; all of them have  a good pronounciation of the n/m consonants. I thought to strike exactly the other options, like tãtu, which sounds wrong to me.



A sylaba é ou não é composta po "tan" ?
As silabas "lan" e "lã" não têm o mesmo som ? ("lan" "de "lanço" por ex.)

For this type of discussion, it is more than evident that we should learn phonetic symbols first ! We both, I mean ! 

Repare que você está me dizendo que diz 

"tã ~ene nê ~ tu" 
ou "tã ~nê ~ tu"

Both syllabes, "ã" and "an" are representations of the sound "ã".

No brasil não diz a palavra inglesa  "van" com o som de "vã"  (também pode dizer "vani", mas isso é outra história) ?Não ... pois não !

The "n" is not a separete syllabe !!!! the "n" is PART pf the "tan" syllabe !!!!

The most close sound in english to the sound of "ã" is found in the sound of the "a" in words like "van", "can", "pan" but without the "ne" sound.

Look at this article:
find "romã" and ear the sound
http://cvc.instituto-camoes.pt/cpp/acessibilidade/capitulo2_1.html

 ear here "lã"
http://pt.forvo.com/search-pt/l%C3%A3/

ear here "tanto"
http://pt.forvo.com/search-pt/tanto/


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## Doctorr

almufadado said:


> The "n" is not a separete syllabe !!!! the "n" is PART pf the "tan" syllabe !!!!



So if I understood you right, "n" exists just to nasalize a preceeding vowel but it´s not pronounced? As well as "m"?


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## anaczz

This is dificult, because we can only imagine the sound you are describing with "just to nasalize". 
But I agree with gabrielnd.
If I say "tão" the "a" will be nasalized due the til (~) In  PtBR will sound like "tãum" 
If I say "tanto" the "a" will be less nasalized and we do pronounce the n, like an aditional nasalized sound.
So, I would say that we talk like:
tanto - tãntu 
quente - quẽntchi 
quando - quãndu 
tempo - tẽmpu 
sim - sĩm 
falam - fálão


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## Doctorr

Anaczz, muito obrigado)


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## okporip

almufadado said:


> As silabas "lan" e "lã" não têm o mesmo som?



almufadado,

Tendo a concordar com gabrielnd. Não tenho nenhuma dúvida de que a sílaba "lan" e a palavra "lã", do modo como as pronuncio, têm sons distintos. Se, na falta de conhecimento dos símbolos fonéticos, buscamos grafias "ilustrativas" de pronúncias, fico com as seguintes alternativas (representando, claro, a pronúncia do "meu" português - brasileiro e, mais especificamente, paulista da capital, isto é, paulistano): 

tanto - tãntu
quente - quẽinchi (English sound ch)
quando - quãndu 
tempo - tẽinpu
sim - síĩn 
falam - fálãũn

PS: não tinha visto a contribuição de anaczz, com a qual concordo em larga medida (diferimos um pouco na representação dos sons, mas isto se deve muito menos a reais discordâncias do que ao critério aproximativo que estamos aqui usando).


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## Renatodep

vozbox said:


> In Portuguese, do words ending in 'm' or 'n' (particularly verbs) form _liaisons_ with subsequent words beginning with vowels, as is the case in French?
> 
> For example, I know that the 'm' in 'estudam' is silent, but if you were to say "Estudam as línguas românicas," is the 'm' voiced?  What about the 'm' in "Escreve*m* uma tese"?
> 
> Muito obrigado,
> vozbox




In Brazilian Portuguese (not sure about Euro PT), liason happens with the final R that in most cases have become silent. But when the word is followed by another word starting with a vowel, then you do pronounce the R as you would with the French S.

For example, "Brincar amanhã". Normally people would pronounce brincar without the R, as "brinca". But because "amanhã" begins with a vowel, then we say "brincaRamanhã".


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## almufadado

okporip said:


> almufadado,
> 
> Tendo a concordar com gabrielnd. Não tenho nenhuma dúvida de que a sílaba "lan" e a palavra "lã", do modo como as pronuncio, têm sons distintos. Se, na falta de conhecimento dos símbolos fonéticos, buscamos grafias "ilustrativas" de pronúncias, fico com as seguintes alternativas (representando, claro, a pronúncia do "meu" português - brasileiro e, mais especificamente, paulista da capital, isto é, paulistano):
> 
> tanto - tãntu
> quente - quẽinchi (English sound ch)
> quando - quãndu
> tempo - tẽinpu
> sim - síĩn
> falam - fálãũn
> 
> PS: não tinha visto a contribuição de anaczz, com a qual concordo em larga medida (diferimos um pouco na representação dos sons, mas isto se deve muito menos a reais discordâncias do que ao critério aproximativo que estamos aqui usando).



My problem, and do not think I am being too stubborn,  is that *we are explaining this to a English speaking person !
*
if you write "tãn" he will surely read it like the english words "can/tan/pan" that is the "n" where has a distinct sound (a faint "ne"). That he is going to read it as 
"tã ~ne ~to".

I know the different accents in the word "tanto" in Portugal and in Brazil which as only 2 distinct sounds of for each syllable. The only diference is Brazilians prolong the sound a little bit further.

Moreover the original question was "is the "m" in "estu*dam*" pronounced ?" which indicated his doubts are if, like in the english word "Sam" where the "m" is  distinct syllable, 

And my Portuguese Portugal answer is : No, the syllable  is "dam" which reads as one sound "dão"/"daum" as is "cão"/"mão".  

The problem is that most english speakers do not have the sound "ã" and usually read "cão" as "cáu" when is a low pitch "kaaaaaauuuummmm"


"


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## Doctorr

almufadado said:


> My problem, and do not think I am being too stubborn,  is that *we are explaining this to a English speaking person !
> *



Bueno, ¿y si hablo español? ¿Será claro? (Ok and if I speak Spanish? Will it be clear?)


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## almufadado

Doctorr said:


> Bueno, ¿y si hablo español? ¿Será claro? (Ok and if I speak Spanish? Will it be clear?)



Si hablas español tienes otra ortografía pero todavía los mismos sonidos !

Bread 
 *хлеб  -> *pão (paaum) -> pan (paan/pã) -> a spanish reads this as we write "lã"/"vã"

Um inglês lê "man" como "mane" e lê "men" como "méne" 

Por isso não se lhe pode dizer para ele "tanto" como "tãnto" porque ele vai ler "tã-ne~to ".

So I rest my case, here !


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## anaczz

I see what almufadado is trying to say. I think the better is listening some examples.

You can listen some of brazilian pronounce here 
Inglês @ 0:44
irmã  @ 1:05
com      1:15
manteiga  1:31
nunca   2:11
sempre  
com você 3:52
pão com manteiga 4:07

and in this other one
um momento 1:10
quanto é um hambúrguer com fritas 1:15


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## Outsider

vozbox said:


> In Portuguese, do words ending in 'm' or 'n' (particularly verbs) form _liaisons_ with subsequent words beginning with vowels, as is the case in French?
> 
> For example, I know that the 'm' in 'estudam' is silent, but if you were to say "Estudam as línguas românicas," is the 'm' voiced?  What about the 'm' in "Escreve*m* uma tese"?


No, never.*

*In some dialects of northern Portugal, the final -_m_ is pronounced as a velar nasal (like the "-ng" in English "king"), but this is marked as regional.



Doctorr said:


> Hi everyone, I've just started to study Portuguese.
> If we are talking about the Portuguese nasalization in the context other then liaison:
> a vowel+N/M (their nasalizing function)+ a consonant, so should N or M be pronounced or shouldn't?


I'd say that the consonants _m/n_ are not pronounced in those cases, but this is a little tricky. I suspect that I'd have trouble telling the two possibilities apart. When foreigners speak Portuguese, their pronunciation of the consonants isn't something that stands out to the natives (except at the end of words). Conversely, although I know that in Spanish the nasal consonants are always fully pronounced, this is not a difference that I normally notice when I hear Spanish spoken...

All in all, I'd say you do not need to stress over how to pronounce (or not pronounce) the nasal consonants before other consonants. Focus on word endings. 



Doctorr said:


> So if I understood you right, "n" exists just to nasalize a preceeding vowel but it´s not pronounced? As well as "m"?


Before consonants. They are fully pronounced between vowels and at the beginning of words.


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## Doctorr

Outsider, muito obrigado.
P.S. The Portuguese phonetics is soooooooooooooooo complicated...


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## Ibirapuera

For American readers, the old TV show Lone Ranger featured a sidekick named Tonto. If you say Tonto and avoid holding out the final o (maybe change it to a u), you'll have what I consider a pretty good 'tanto' in my paulistano Portuguese. Remember that it's two syllables. To me, tanto sounds like the nonsense word tãto. Native speakers are welcome to correct me.


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## almufadado

Ibirapuera said:


> For American readers, the old TV show Lone Ranger featured a sidekick named Tonto. If you say Tonto and avoid holding out the final o (maybe change it to a u), you'll have what I consider a pretty good 'tanto' in my paulistano Portuguese. Remember that it's two syllables. To me, tanto sounds like the nonsense word tãto. Native speakers are welcome to correct me.



In english symbols and sounds,  I read this spanish word "tonto"  like this (as in the tv show) :

1st syllable "ton" as in *"ton*nage" (not "tan" as from sunburn)
2nd syllable "to"  as in "toe" 
"~" the separates syllables  
resulting in "ton ~ toe" ... getting probable a ton of toes for my explanation 

In Portuguese "tonto" I think english language there isn't that sound (only pt, es and fr and other romance (latin) languages )   
You know the US town "Boca ra*ton*" (spanish for the mouth of the mouse) ? the ending sound of "ra*ton*" with the sound of the preposition "*to"* get's you the portuguese tonto".

Very diferent from "tanto"  ->  "tan" as from sunburn (a notch down) + the sound of the preposition "*to"*


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## Erick404

almufadado said:


> A sylaba é ou não é composta po "tan" ?
> As silabas "lan" e "lã" não têm o mesmo som ? ("lan" "de "lanço" por ex.)
> 
> (...)
> 
> No brasil não diz a palavra inglesa  "van" com o som de "vã"  (também pode dizer "vani", mas isso é outra história) ?Não ... pois não !



Para dificultar um pouco mais as coisas: pelo menos no Brasil, a pronúncia de lã é diferente de lan (como em _lanço_). No segundo caso, o som nasal do n se prolonga mais. Mesma coisa com vã/van, rã/RAM, etc.


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## patriota

Erick404 said:


> Mesma coisa com vã/van, rã/RAM, etc.


Pronuncio essas do mesmo jeito.


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## anaczz

patriota said:


> Pronuncio essas do mesmo jeito.


Eu também pronuncio da mesma forma.


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## Ariel Knightly

Erick404 said:


> Para dificultar um pouco mais as coisas: pelo menos no Brasil, a pronúncia de lã é diferente de lan (como em _lanço_). No segundo caso, o som nasal do n se prolonga mais. Mesma coisa com vã/van, rã/RAM, etc.


Tenho a impressão de que isso depende da posição na palavra. Por exemplo, não vejo diferença entre _van_, o carro, e _vã_, feminino de _vão_; mas _vândalo _certamente tem uma consoante nasal seguindo a vogal, o que, contudo, não observo em alguns dialetos do Nordeste.


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## percivalpc

Desculpem, pessoal, mas a pronúncia de "van" não é _exatamente_ a mesma de "vã". "Van" se encerra com fechamento palatal (completo ou parcial) e "vã", não.

A diferença é mesmo muito sutil, quase imperceptível, e nem acho que seja importante um estudante estrangeiro do português saber distingui-la, mas ela está  lá. A minha língua faz a distinção e concorda comigo. Perguntei agora para mais duas pessoas e a língua delas também concorda.


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