# Ciao & Arriverdici



## Aristo

Ciao(Italian) = Hello, goodbye(English)
Arriverdici(Italian) = goodbye(English)
Then what should I say when I say goodbye(greeting) in italian?   

Aristo


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## Moogey

Aristo said:
			
		

> Ciao(Italian) = Hello, goodbye(English)
> Arrivederdici(Italian) = goodbye(English)
> Then what should I say when I say goodbye(greeting) in italian?
> 
> Aristo



In English, "goodbye" is not a greeting. By the way, ciao more precisely is like "hi, bye" 

In Italian you'd probably greet someone with "Buon giorno" (Good day) or "Salve" hello. Maybe with friends you'd just say "ciao"

-M


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## lsp

You can use either one you've written, and there are other ways. It depends to whom you are speaking (how formal is your relationship) and is it goodbye for now, or goodbye/farewell (addio)?


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## Aristo

lsp said:
			
		

> You can use either one you've written, and there are other ways. It depends to whom you are speaking (how formal is your relationship) and is it goodbye for now, or goodbye/farewell (addio)?


 
Then I can say addio(goodbye) for greeting in Italian. Am I right, Isp?


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## lsp

Aristo said:
			
		

> Then I can say addio(goodbye) for greeting in Italian. Am I right, Lsp?


That's "farewell," more of a "forever" goodbye. Why don't you tell us what situation/company you are saying goodbye to so we can give you the best answer?


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## Aristo

N...If I just say to my friends?


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## Moogey

Aristo said:
			
		

> And...If I just say it to my friends?


Hmm, everybody is making typos tonight!!

You can say "addio" to your friends but you probably would say "ciao"

-M


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## lsp

Aristo said:
			
		

> N...If I just say to my friends?


Then you can use these:
Bye (see ya)! = Ciao (ci vediamo)!
Goodbye = Arrivederci

Addio is generally for a long time apart, even forever...


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## Auno

Aristo,

If it helps you to remember what lsp is saying to you here (it may not):

You may have heard the French word 'Adieu'.  Well, even if you haven't...the Italian 'Addio' is essentially the same.  In each case, the literal meaning is something like 'to god'.  If that really were the case, that really was happening, there would be a strong element of finality involved, wouldn't you think?

I stress I do not mean saying 'addio' to someone by way of 'goodbye' necessarily means you are departing the planet and going to heaven, or even that you'll never ever see the person you are saying it to again.  Although that would be a 'good word' to use if you were in either case, for the reason given in the previous paragraph.  It has that nuance to it.  People can and do however say "addio" when they know they'll see the person they are speaking to again. 

'Arriverderci'  is essentially the same as  the French 'Au revoir' - you are saying goodbye with an expectation of meeting again.


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## valexDD

If you have to say goodbye in italian you can just say 'ciao' or also 'arrivederci'..but we use more often 'ciao'...


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## Aristo

But how could the guy(that we are talking to) to know it's say hi or say bye to him/her?  

Aristo


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## valexDD

he knows that because when you say goodbye you're leaving..so you say 'ciao' and then you leave..understand?i don't know if this is clear for you..it's just that i don't know a better way to explain this to you..


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## Aristo

valexDD said:
			
		

> he knows that because when you say goodbye you're leaving..so you say 'ciao' and then you leave..understand?i don't know if this is clear for you..it's just that i don't know a better way to explain this to you..


 
Thanks valexDD

Aristo


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## Saoul

VaexxDD is quite right! You get the idea someone's taking his/her leave, because they are physically going away.
As lsp correctly stated above, "addio" is not really common. 
I think I used it only joking! I pretend I'm fighting with someone and I say: "Allora addio!" it means forever!


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## valexDD

you're welcome!


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## stevenvh

I saw no reaction to Moogey's "Buon giorno", while I learnt it as "Buongiorno", but now I see both are used. Same with buonasera, buonanotte.
It either one prefered, one or two words?


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## Willi

stevenvh said:
			
		

> I saw no reaction to Moogey's "Buon giorno", while I learnt it as "Buongiorno", but now I see both are used. Same with buonasera, buonanotte.
> It either one prefered, one or two words?


 
I think they're much the same, if you google it, you will find it written in both ways. Curious, I had never thought about it


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## stevenvh

Which do you write, Willi?


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## Willi

I don't know, as I said I had never thought about it before. Probably I would write something like "dare il bacio della buonanotte" (one word), as in this case it's a noun (but I think you can also writ it in two words).
If I had to write it as a greeting...well I have no idea, l'una vale l'altra!

I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive


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## stevenvh

Nessun problema. Grazie.


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## Willi

Non c'è di che


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## Sierra

I made some boo-boos when I first moved to Italy, saying "ciao" when leaving when I should've said "arrivederci" o "buonasera".

Generally, "ciao" is reserved for people you are familiar with, as "hi" and "goodbye".  Besides using this among friends, you might be greeted with a "ciao", for example:

1) at a McDonald's (where you're kind of the same age/generation as the server) 
2) if you're a kid 
3) you're young and are spoken to by your friend's parents

You'll get the more formal "buongiorno", "buonasera", "arrivederci", for example when:

1) you're being greeted by a hotel receptionist or waiter in a nice restaurant
2) you're "older" and people need to show you respect 
3) you're speaking with public officials
4) you're speaking to someone whom you don't know on the phone


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## stevenvh

Yes, that's what we learnt in class too, but I sometimes wonder how sensitive Italians really are to this. Especially in touristic locations they know that foreigners are not acquainted with Italian customs.
Also, in Belgium this is more or less the same, yet when I leave a shop for instance -- and not just the local baker's where I come daily -- I say ciao or something to that effect, and I don't feel this being rude. Would it really be considered to be rude in Italy?


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## moodywop

Willi said:
			
		

> I don't know, as I said I had never thought about it before. Probably I would write something like "dare il bacio della buonanotte" (one word), as in this case it's a noun (but I think you can also writ it in two words).
> If I had to write it as a greeting...well I have no idea, l'una vale l'altra!


 
Willi
My usage is the same as yours(ie I always write it as one word when it's used as a noun - Garzanti seems to confirm this).
I think the reason we had never thought about it is because most of the time we just _say _it. We don't get to write it very often.
When it's used as a greeting, I think both forms are commonly used (all dictionaries list both).


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## stevenvh

moodywop said:
			
		

> Willi
> I think the reason we had never thought about it is because most of the time we just _say _it. We don't get to write it very often.


Yes, that's what I thought too last night in bed (go figure!). When you write a formal letter, you'll start with _Egregio..._ and when it's an informal letter you'd just say _Ciao_, or _Caro/cara..._ or something to that effect. So no _Buongiorno_. But I do write _Buonanotte _at the end of my letter!



"Nobody writes anymore. They're all dead." -- Kolenkhov in _You can't take it with you_


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## moodywop

stevenvh said:
			
		

> Yes, that's what we learnt in class too, but I sometimes wonder how sensitive Italians really are to this. Especially in touristic locations they know that foreigners are not acquainted with Italian customs.
> Also, in Belgium this is more or less the same, yet when I leave a shop for instance -- and not just the local baker's where I come daily -- I say ciao or something to that effect, and I don't feel this being rude. Would it really be considered to be rude in Italy?


 
Yes, I often hear foreign tourists say "ciao" to complete strangers. However I don't think any Italians would consider it rude, coming from a non-native. Foreign tourists also often switch between "tu" and "lei" forms. Unless they've memorized all the phrases in their phrasebooks for tourists , which of course only use "lei" forms.

I can't speak for all Italians but yes, I do find it rude if a native uses "ciao" (or "tu") to another native he doesn't know (unless, of course, it's a child). I also find it patronizing when some Italians address a waiter/waitress using "tu" just because he/she is very young.


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## Sierra

_"-- I say ciao or something to that effect, and I don't feel this being rude. Would it really be considered to be rude in Italy?"_

As a foreigner living in Italy for 6 years (and studying Italian for 10!), my language skills have obviously improved.  When I first came here and it was obvious that I was still coming to grips with it, I don't think many people cared if I used the "tu" or "lei" form (or as in the case of our discussion "ciao" or "buongiorno").  I started learning the difference when I was told off by my Italian husband when a waiter bid us "buonasera" as we were leaving and I said "ciao"!. 

Now, however, I speak Italian fairly fluently - I attend meetings, talk to my architect, go for job interviews, etc. in Italian.  At this point, I think people would find it rude if I said "ciao" instead of "buongiorno" even though I'm still a foreigner.


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## Alxmrphi

Very interesting point, I'm I never noticed that.
Are they both used then? for sure?


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## stevenvh

Alex,
could you please specify what you're refering at?
We've had ciao vs. arrivederci, ciao vs. buongiorno, buongiorno vs. buon giorno...


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## Alxmrphi

Ah sorry... I was talking about "Buongiorno and Buon giorno" whether splitting the words is still correct Italian.


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## Aristo

Buongiorno = Buon giorno

But usually is Buongiorno or buona giornata


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## Aristo

Any different between Arrivederci and Arrivederla?


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## lsp

Aristo said:
			
		

> Any different between Arrivederci and Arrivederla?


ci = a noi, therefore a more casual choice.
la = a Lei (the formal "you")


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## darkmatter

I believe Arrivederla is more formal. I'm wondering also if Arrivederci has any kind of connotation like Addio does. Addio looks like to God, does arrivederci mean anything literally besides good bye? It looks like arrive there.


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## lsp

darkmatter said:
			
		

> I believe Arrivederla is more formal. I'm wondering also if Arrivederci has any kind of connotation like Addio does. Addio looks like to God, does arrivederci mean anything literally besides good bye? It looks like arrive there.


a false friend of _arrive_ at best 
a + ri + vedere


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## darkmatter

O that makes much more sense. I wish books would teach the literal translations along with the equivalent in English. Instead they don't to avoid confusion. To re see each other is a lot different than goodbye, when speaking literally.


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## Victoria32

darkmatter said:
			
		

> O that makes much more sense. I wish books would teach the literal translations along with the equivalent in English. Instead they don't to avoid confusion. To re see each other is a lot different than goodbye, when speaking literally.


This thread answers questions I have had - I always thought buonanotte etc were't used, and I am glad to learn they are...

Also, 'salve'!


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## Brian P

If "goodbye" is "addio" then how does God say goodbye?  Maybe "a me"? I know that in Spanish he says "Vaya commigo"


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## brian

Brian P said:
			
		

> If "goodbye" is "addio" then how does God say goodbye?  Maybe "a me"? I know that in Spanish he says "Vaya commigo"


Ha, I think if God is telling you "goodbye," then you have bigger things to worry about than the semantic considerations thereof.


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## lsp

Brian P said:
			
		

> If "goodbye" is "addio" then how does God say goodbye?  Maybe "a me"? I know that in Spanish he says "Vaya commigo conmigo "


Way off topic and wrong language, nevertheless I corrected a typo.


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## nycgirl

Hi  
But do you use "addio" for a (permanent?) farewell?  Would this be the best choice if you were not seeing someone again?


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## Willi

Yes, exactly


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## nycgirl

Willi said:
			
		

> Yes, exactly


 
Grazie tante!


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## Willi

Prego, figurati


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## Aristo

Grazie a va! Capisco adesso!


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## Italiana31

random piece of info: arrivederLa is used in really respectful situations.


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## Victoria32

Italiana31 said:
			
		

> random piece of info: arrivederLa is used in really respectful situations.


That is very useful to know... Like before a judge?


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## Italiana31

yes! or an elderly person that you respect.. like your nonna's friend or something


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## brian

Yes, "La" is the formal pronoun for "you."  So in any situation where you are speaking to someone formally--which is basically with anyone whom you don't know, especially superiors, the elderly, etc.--you should use this.  Though I suppose telling a stranger "Arrivederci" is better than saying "Ciao," which would come off stranger if you hadn't met him before or if he's your boss or teacher or a judge.


Brian


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