# FR: bien / bon



## loudsox

*Moderator note:* The question about the difference between _bien_ and _bon_  is extremely common and has been discussed extensively. Many threads  have been merged here. This thread is therefore very long but it is also  quite complete. See also the following related discussions: mal / mauvais &  mieux / meilleur.


Je suis allée en France l'année pasée et j'ai entendu beaucoup de "c'est bien" et "c'est bon."  Est-ce qu'il y a une différence entre les deux?  J'ai demandé cette question à une femme française et elle m'a dit que, si on parle des choses qu'on peux gouter ou sentir ou quelque chose comme ça, on dirait "c'est bon."  Elle a dit qu'on utiliserait "c'est bien" dans les autres cas.  Vous êtes d'accord?  Vous pensez qu'il y a une vrai différence?

- Jen


----------



## fetchezlavache

this is a tough one. basically and in general, your french friend is right.

still, we can use 'c'est bon' when we mean 'i'm through', 'you did well', 'this is enough' etc... 

so it's quite tricky...


----------



## semiller

Yes, I agree this is a tough one.  Although languages claim to have rules, in reality how often are they really followed?  To be honest as I tell my students, languages are alive and ever so changing.  Native speakers determine the rules of languages, not fine written lessons in textbooks.  Case in point, "Elle va bien v. elle est bien."  Elle va bien=She's doing well.  Elle est bien=She's good looking.  Yes, one would think, elle est *bonne * would work here, but the meaning would change a little.  Que pensez-vous les autres?


----------



## fetchezlavache

elle est bien doesn't necessarily mean she's good looking. the context is important semiller. 

par exemple : you can also say that from a teacher : _comment est ta prof d'espagnol ? elle est bien. _


regarding elle est bonne, same thing. it only has a slang meaning 'she's good in the sack' when the context says it. 

_comment est la tarte aux pommes ? elle est bonne._


----------



## semiller

Yes, I agree context is quite important.  I guess I didn't really mention that, but I totally agree.  I guess I have heard "elle est bien" usually in the context of "she's good looking."  I knew that "elle est bonne" meant that she was good in bed, but just didn't have the guts to say that on here.  I'm truly impressed with your knowledge of English slang!  How did you know that expression, "She's good in the sack?"  Chapeau pour ton anglais Fetchez!


----------



## RODGER

Then you can say "c'est une femme bien" meaning she's admirable in some way

Rodger


----------



## Isotta

Alors, je pose cette question assez élémentaire : quand utiliser "c’est bon" et quand utiliser "c’est bien" ? J’ai l’impression que "c’est bien" est plutôt la réponse à une situation

   Carlos : L’examen est bien passé aujourd’hui !
   Clotilde : Ah, c’est bien !

   tandis que "c’est bon" soit plutôt un objet, ou un dîner 

   serveur : Ça y a été ?
   Valentin : C’était très bon, merci.

   Mais parfois j’entends l’inverse. 

   Auriez-vous des conseils ?  Si cette question a été déjà posée, j’aimerais bien être dirigée au fil.

   Merci d’avance ! Si cette question a été 

 Z.


----------



## geve

Question élémentaire, certes, mais fondamentale !  
Let me try to explain (j'accepte volontiers toute contradiction ou remarque !)

"bon" is an adjective and generally used for food, or for something that gives sensual pleasure :
(meal) _c'est bon._ In a restaurant you could also hear _C'était très bien,_ as an equivalent of _C'était parfait_ (meaning the food, the service...)
(scent) _ça sent bon_
(massage -and the rest...) _c'est bon / ça fait du bien_

"bon" also means correct, ok :
(checking ID) _c'est bon, vous pouvez passer_ 

"bien" is an adverb (=does not take gender or plural) and used to express satisfaction
(congratulations) _Tu as rangé ta chambre ? C'est bien !_
(approval) _- Pour Noël j'enverrais une carte à mes amis américains. - C'est bien_
(likes and dislikes) _Ce film était très bien. L'actrice joue très bien. J'aime bien les films américains._ But : _C'était un bon film_ (not "c'était bon" )

So... it's a lot more complicate that one (francophone) could think... 
Maybe a trick could be to think of what you would say if you meant the contrary : _mal_ or _mauvais_ ?

Now let's check if you understood : bon/bien/mal/mauvais 
Tu as tout bon ? C'est bien !


----------



## somody

More simply:

bon is the adjective (good)
bien is the adverb (well)


----------



## kertek

geve said:
			
		

> Ce film était très bien.


 _Is the "bien" here an adverb?_


----------



## Isotta

That was my problem, because in English, it's almost always the adjective "good" after "to be," unless you say something like, "All is well."

Apparently it's idiomatic. 

Z.


----------



## french4beth

Hi Kertek,
Yes, sounds like an adverb - maybe it's supposed to mean "well done," "well made," "well directed," or some such - it sounds like a verb is missing.


----------



## kertek

The dictionary says that "bien" can be an adverb, as in "il joue bien au foot", or an adjective, as in "ce film était très bien."

But I'm still not clear on the nuances. What differences do native speakers hear between these sentences:

"Il est bon, ce film!"
"Il est bien, ce film!"


----------



## geve

yeah, I was fearing this might come up...  
There is this problem of "bien" being used syntaxically as an adjective - and that's why originally I elaborated a little more than Somody.

So "bien" is indeed an adverb and an invariant(?) adjective. And after checking, it seems that in this thread we're only talking about "bien" adjective... (and that "bon" can also be an adverb... see, I just didn't want to introduce too much confusion !)
So I will beg forgiveness to you for my lack of accuracy. Please accept as an act of contrition this humble synthesis I've made of what atilf.atilf.fr has to tell us about "bien adj. inv." :

*Bien adjectif invariable :* 
- _Emplois discursifs_. Qui correspond exactement à certains critères d'appréciation individuels ou collectifs
=> Digne d'admiration, Digne d'estime pour ses qualités, ses vertus, D'un comportement agréable, favorable à autrui, Qui remplit correctement son rôle

- _Emplois interjectifs_. C'est bien! C'est fort bien! C'est très bien! marque l'approbation, parfois avec une nuance ironique

*Bien adverb :* 
_Emplois discursifs._ En rapport avec certains critères d'appréciation individuels ou collectifs; d'une manière exactement adéquate à l'idée ou à l'effet attendu(e), propre à recevoir l'approbation


----------



## geve

kertek said:
			
		

> "Il est bon, ce film!"
> "Il est bien, ce film!"


 Both are correct : you can either say "c'est un bon film" or "c'est un film bien".
What you CAN'T say is "c'est bon" talking about a movie (that is how I understood and answered the question : c'est + bon/bien  )

I'm starting to think only a non-native who is feeling quite secure with both terms could explain the difference in a more simple way...  (Benjy, are you there ?)

_(there are 4 or 5 pages on "bon" in the TLFi, so it doesn't just seem complicate... it IS complicate !!)_


----------



## glaswegian

I think when we (native speakers) use "Il est bien, ce film!" we mean that we like the movie.
En sortant du cinéma, si on dit que le film était bien, c'est qu'on l'a apprécié, qu'il nous a divertit... On a passé un moment agréable. Il y a donc une notion de divertissement.

Dans "C'est un bon film", il y a également une notion de qualité je pense. Qualité du scénario, du réalisateur, des acteurs...
Par exemple au Festival de Cannes, le jury va récompenser un film que l'on qualifiera de "bon film" plutot que de "film bien".


----------



## E-J

I am comfortable with "bon" and "bien" in most contexts but I'm determined to sort out why you can use "bon" to describe a film in some situations but not in others!

I will have a stab at finding the nuance here ... If I'm completely off the mark, please let me know.

"C'était bon" can describe a meal I've just had because it was a good quality meal which is now finished, gone, eaten. It was good while it lasted!

"C'était bon" CAN'T describe a film I've just seen because the film, although over, remains a good quality film (which can be watched again, by me or by somebody else). Instead, I have to say "C'était bien", which refers to my particular _experience _of the film on that occasion - or I can say "C'est un bon film" because it is still a good film even though I've finished watching it.

Am I coming at ALL close?


----------



## glaswegian

Perfect E-J


----------



## Agnès E.

E-J said:
			
		

> Pourtant je ne comprends toujours pas vraiment pourquoi on peut dire "C'était bon" pour parler d'un repas, mais non pas pour un film?


Parce que l'on ne mange pas le film !
C'est bon = cela a bon goût.


----------



## Tchesko

I would like to add this:
The use of "bon" vs "bien" depends on the way you turn your sentence around. You can say "c'est un bon film", which is a neutral observation (or pretending to sound so). You can also say "il est bien, ce film", which rather reflects a subjective opinion, but you usually wouldn't say "il est bon, ce film" (well... you might say so if you passionately loved the film); "c'est un film bien" is also possible (this observation is likely to be followed by "mais sans plus" or something similar, meaning the film is _quite _good).
Do the natives agree?


----------



## xav

Puisqu'il y a une question restée sans réponse, je me permets d'ajouter tardivement mon grain de sel. Pour moi, "native", "bien" a plutôt un sens moral et "bon" une connotation sensorielle. Le premier est en principe un adverbe et le second un adjectif, mais l'usage a mêlé les deux au point de créer avec "bien" cet adjectif invariable qui me fait un peu frémir.
Sous cette réserve, "c'est un film bien" me paraît possible, avec un sens moral : qui élève l'esprit. Comme on dit "c'est un homme bien" = "c'est quelqu'un de bien".
Ceci dit, sans aucun doute cette nuance est en voie d'extinction (j'allais dire : de perdition...).


----------



## judkinsc

I can't add much to the definition, but perhaps I can throw out a couple alternates for 'bien', which sometimes work in English translations.
It can, at times, mean "fine".  Like, "C'est bien" for "That's fine".


----------



## sunbeam1

Which is right! I think im going over old material but having read it all still not sure!

context:
Ce qui est bien/bon dans ma ville est...

Merci d'avance!


----------



## Monsieur Hoole

bon = good  (adjectif)
bien = well  (adverbe)


----------



## sunbeam1

Oui je comprends bien ca, mais en fait c'est qu'en ce cas, je comprends pas si le mot que je cherche la bas est un ajectif ou adverbe:

Par exemple:
C'est bon : concernant exactement *ce* qui est bon dans la ville (le college par exemple)
C'est bien : concernant le verbe etre, et donc on utilise l'adverbe.

Argh, j'espere que j'ai bien expliqué ma probleme!


----------



## CARNESECCHI

Hello,
On dit:
"Ce qui est bien, dans ma ville, c'est qu'on n'y est jamais loin de la campagne"
mais on ne dit pas
"ce qui est bon, dans ma ville, c'est le collège", on dit "ce qui est bien, dans ma ville, c'est qu'il y a un bon collège"
Hope it helps (or does it ?)


----------



## vidyalicious

I've heard from a native French speaker that "Elle est bonne" is the equivalent of something like our "She's hot" or "She's smoking"

So, not necessarily an expression of how good she is in bed, but just her physical appearance.


----------



## vidyalicious

My French exchange student put it similarly:
_
Bon_ (as previously stated) is for foods, smells, sense descriptions
OR
for state of existence of a person
For example, "T'as mal?" or "Tu m'en veux?" or "Tu veux encore du rix?", the response being, "Non, c'est bon."
_
Bien_ being for all other cases.  So a skirt is bien, a film is usually bien, and events and situations are bien (that's the "C'etait bien".  I would usually prefer the former in these two cases:
"C'est un bon film" vs "C'est un film bien" 
"Le film est bien" vs "Le film est bon"
Maybe that's personal or maybe there's somethign more to it.

[…]


----------



## oldirtybrza

im uncertain if these are interchangeable... here in quebec, i tend to here "c'est bon" in the sense of "that's fine" but the wordreference page says 'bien' can be used to say 'fine', 'alright', etc 

any thoughts?


----------



## FrançoisXV

i'd say, as already discussed
that's good = c'est bon
that's fine = c'est bien
good/fine job = bon boulot.
mind "c'est bon!" can mean something like "that's enough!, stop it!"


----------



## SweetMommaSue

Thank you FrançoisXV! I learned something new! I never knew that "c'est bon!" could mean "That's enough! Stop it!" and "bon boulot" is new for me, as well. 

However, are c'est bon/bien interchangeable? I would think  so. Can someone give an example or two where they are not?


----------



## Aoyama

In modern (colloquial)french, c'est bon and c'est bien are virtually interchangeable, *c'est bon* meaning *ça va* (it's OK, fine, alright). The original meaning (which has somewhat been lost) was that *bon* is generally for TASTE, *bien* for the state of things (good/right) ...


----------



## Aoyama

PS : Regarding what SweetMommaSue said about *c'est bon !* meaning *that's enough !* (true), it is also linked to the use of *ça va* , which, according to intonation, can have opposite meanings.


----------



## lidboymk2

Qu'est - ce que le difference entre c'est bien et c'est bon.
Merci d'avance


----------



## Mjollnir

Bien = well. 

C'étais bien fait = It was well made. 
J'ai bien dormi = I slept well.

Bon = good

C'étais un bon repas = It was a good meal. 
J'avais une bonne idée = I had a good idea.

C'est bien = It is well
C'est bon = It is good

Both expressions in English are interchangeable, but 'it is well' is pretty obscure and old, very few people use it.


----------



## Matcauthon

You could say bon and bonne, or you could say bien and bienne, but  how do you distinguish what to use between the two?


----------



## [Marc]

Bon is for things and bien is more for actions, I would say...
Bon gâteau, bonne voiture
Il a bien travaillé, elle a bien fait les courses.
Bienne does not exist.
Marc

Bon is an adjective whereas bien is an adverb.


----------



## Punky Zoé

[Marc];2035332 said:
			
		

> Bon is an adjective whereas bien is an adverb.


Bien can also be used as an adjective:
Tout est bien qui finit bien
Je suis bien dans mes chaussures
un homme bien
And it's also a noun
Avoir des biens
Faire le bien...


----------



## [Marc]

un adverbe peut servir d'adjectif, c'est donc normal que bien n'échappe pas à la règle. La réciproque n'est pas vraie, sauf erreur de ma part. Un adverbe est invariable, pas un adjectif : bien *n'est pas *un adjectif.


----------



## calembourde

[Marc];2035318 said:
			
		

> Bienne does not exist.


I am sure the Biennois will be upset about that! Bienne exists, but it's a place, not a feminine form of bien. 

In general I think something is _bon_ if it tastes/feels/smells/sounds/looks good, and _bien_ if it's good in some more abstract, moral sense, though there are exceptions. I remember reading a great thread about this topic a while ago. I can't find it now, but I remember the examples given were:

_c'était bon_ for a meal.

and

_c'était bien_ for a film. 

After much discussion of why this was, and many attempts to define a general rule, somebody hit upon the idea that the film was _bien_ because it was good and, in a way, still is good (the good ideas from the movie still exist in your head) while the meal was _bon_, because it was good but it's gone now. I might have mis-remembered this, I really wish I could find that thread.


----------



## PSIONMAN

Gardefeu said:


> Pourquoi _bien_? Parce qu'il faut un adverbe, et que _bon_ est un adjectif...



I'm trying to sort out the difference in my head. My dictionary (Collins Robert) says that both bien and bon can be an adjective, an adverb (and a noun)

je me sens bien

but

ça sent bon

on est bien ici

but

je suis bon en anglais

Are there any rules about when each one should be used, or do you just have to learn the usages by rote?


----------



## balaam

by rote, i'm afraid (btw the french would says "apprendre par coeur")

the problem is that "feel" is a reflexive verb in french; AND it talk about both inner feeling and smell.

i feel good = je ME sens bien = i feel fine
It feel good is litteraly ça sent bien (feeling) a never used sentence; but for french it mean it smell good.

je ne le sens pas = I don't feel it = I have a bad feeling about it
je ne sens rien = I don't smell it OR I have no such a bad feeling

ça sent bon = It smell good (cooking)
ça sent mauvais = it smell bad AND I have a bad feeling about it
je le sent bien = I got a good feeling OR of course I smell it


----------



## PPP

I'm still unclear on the basic distinction between usage of "bien" and "bon"

le restaurant est bien?

le plat est bon?  bien?

la fille est bien? (in the sense of elle travaille bien)

Is there a rule?  Thank you!


----------



## themfactor

the distinction between bien and bon in French is the same as the distinction between well and good in English.

In the case of "Elle travaille bien", it means "she works well". Well is describing the way she works, as bien is modifying the verb travailler.

If you were to say "Le plat est bon", it means "The dish is good". Good is describing the dish, just as bon describes le plat.

Hope this helps =]


----------



## PPP

Thank you very much!  I realized last night that the "well"/"good" distinction might help me, and your examples are great.

But how would I say "she is really great" =

elle est très bien?


----------



## [Marc]

Elle est excellente, elle est très bonne (you need an adjective, here, not an adverb)


----------



## Aoyama

I beg to differ with the above.
If you are talking about a girl (female person), you would say :
-elle est bien, elle est très/vraiment bien
saying "Elle est excellente, elle est très bonne" would have a sexual connotation, probably rude and offensive.
This being said, it is true that the difference between bien/bon is not always clearcut in French.
As themfactor mentioned, basically *bien* refers to a state of things whereas *bon* should refer to the taste (normally NOT the appareance).
But you could say : ce restaurant est bon (food is good)
ce restaurant est bien (atmosphere, service, location is good).
You will also say, c'est un bon film/livre, but would rather say ce film est bien (bon is possible, but in that syntactical order less frequent).
You could also say : c'est un bon appartement (location is good etc), cet appartement est bien (well-equipped).
Some idiosyncrasy is involved here.


----------



## [Marc]

> Elle est excellente, elle est très bonne" would have a sexual connotation, probably rude and offensive



Not "elle est excellente" ! Concerning elle est très bonne, it would depend on the way you say it. Whereas "elle est très bien" could be a bit condescending... once again, it would depend on the way you say it...


----------



## themfactor

Whether you would use bien or bon is very circumstantial. Grammaticly, in the sentence "elle est très bien", the verb etre is being modified by the adverb bien. So you are saying, she is very well, as in, she is being well.

You would say elle est trés bien, if it was a response to a question inquiring to her state of being. You would say Elle est trés bonne if the question was inquiring to her person, or was asking for a description.


----------



## Aoyama

Nope.
If you would have to translate "she is well", then you would use "elle *va* bien".
For "elle est très bien" beeing a bit condescending, well, that's news to me ...


----------



## emilyrose

In France, do people sometimes say "C'était bien?" for "Was it good?" (e.g., a movie--"Was the movie good?"), as opposed to "C'était bon?"

For example, if my friend saw a film last night and I wanted to know how she liked it, could I say both "C'était bon?" and "C'était bien?" and if so, what is the difference in meaning? (Does one ask specifically if the film was good and one asks if the evening passed well?)

Thanks.


----------



## MyNameIsNobody

For a movie or a concert, you say :
*
C'était bien ?*

or
*
C'était comment ?*

For a sandwich or an ice cream, you say :

*C'était bon ?*


----------



## emilyrose

Okay, so could you help me out, though... Cause a movie is a thing like a sandwich. Why don't you say "C'était bon" for a film also? "Bien" is an adverb, right, so how can it be used like an adjective? I'm still a bit confused...


----------



## MyNameIsNobody

I understand why you're confused. 

We often use "c'était bon" for anything related to food. I think one of the only times where you can use "C'était bon" in a "non-food" context (lol) is when you speak of a test or homework. For example, you helped someone with a maths assignment, 2 days later the results come and you ask to your friend : "C'était bon" (Was it correct)


For anything related to entertainment (Theater, Fireworks, Concert, Festival), or even for a press conference or anything else....we say "c'était comment ?" or "c'était bien ?".


Now if you want a logical explaination about that, you might want to wait for some expert to show up become I don't know lol sorry.

Bien can be used as an adverb and adjective though...


----------



## Suehil

I think I can see a bit of logic here.  When you say a film was good, you are not speaking about the 'thing' - the roll of film, but about how it was made, acted or how you experienced it.  Which would make it more logical to say 'bien (e.g. bien fait/bien joué, etc.)  Food is a 'thing' you can hold in your hand (and put in your mouth), so it makes more sense to use 'bon'
I hope that helps.


----------



## cropje_jnr

I think if it's an event or something that occurred over the period you say _bien_ most of the time, because the phrase _ça s'est bien passé _could apply (sort of). If you can't, than as a rule of thumb it would be _bon._


----------



## mes6

In a recent post, I know that you touched on the subject of
bien vs. bon.  Mais, regarding films and songs...

Il est bien ce film?   OU   Il est bon ce film

Elle est bien cette chanson?   OU  Elle est bonne cette chanson.

Merci d'avance


----------



## trent

un bon film / une bonne chanson
il est bien ce film / elle est bien cette chanson


----------



## micka

Hello,

I think you could use both depending on the way you use each of them:

_Bien_ is an adverb so it should be used with a verb only:
- Ce film est bien
- Cette chanson est bien

_Bon_ is an adjective so it should be used with a noun or with certain verbs (like "sembler", "être", "paraître"...):
- C'est une bonne chanson / Cette chanson est bonne
- C'est un bon film / Ce film est bon

Let's see what the grammarians will say


----------



## Slim Harpo

Bonjour,

In the context of making plans, I know it's very common to say:
Lundi c'est bon.
But it seems I've also heard:
Lundi c'est bien.

Which reminds me that bon and bien are also interchangeable when giving a favorable opinion of an object:
Il est bon.
Il est bien.

Is this correct? And is there a subtle difference in meaning between bon and bien here (apart from their official functions of adj and adv in other contexts, of course)?
Merci beaucoup de votre aide


----------



## melu85

Slim Harpo said:


> Lundi c'est bon.
> Lundi c'est bien.
> Il est bon.
> Il est bien.


----------



## Vomact

In fact, as for the making of plans, it works, with a slight difference of meaning though :

"Lundi c'est bon" (= that's ok)
"Lundi c'est bien" (= I'd like on Monday ... idea of personnal preference)

As for objects, you may not use "Bon" ... i think it can only be applied to food ... or with a particular construction :

"C'est un bon vélo" ... as an adjective, not alone in the sentence. "J'ai un vélo. Il est bon" is not correct, but "J'ai un vélo. Il est bien" is correct


----------



## Slim Harpo

Ok thanks -- on the second comparison, allow me to get a little more specific,  speaking of food. 
You're tasting a cake your friend just made, she's not happy with it, and you say, reassuringly:
Mais non, *il est très bon* (ton gateau)!  No?

And second point, couldn't you also say:
*Il est très bien *(ton gateau)!


----------



## ChrisPa

hello
if you taste it you should say "il est très bon, ton gâteau"

if it is only to look at you may say "il est très bien, ton gâteau" (but as you don't have tasted it yet you don't know if it is good (bon)


----------



## Vomact

That's it.
If you say "Il est très bien", it mostly concerns the aspect of the cake ... if you have already tasted it and say "Il est très bien", it will apply to the taste too, but you should prefer "Il est très bon", in that it applies only to the taste, and saying "Il est très bien" may be taken as a byroad not to answer about the taste ^^ (yes, French is full of double meanings ...!)


----------



## Fred_C

Slim Harpo said:


> And second point, couldn't you also say:
> *Il est très bien *(ton gateau)!


yes, but it would not mean that it tastes good, it would mean something like "your cake is fair enough..."
(I do not master the concept of "fair enough", but "bien" used as an adjective instead of its normal use as an adverb is very idiomatic too, and always has strange meanings.
the meaning of "bon" is always straightforward.


----------



## Slim Harpo

Thanks for all your input everyone -- Fred C, I think you've hit the mark, the ambiguous use of *bien* here reminds me of how Americans use the word *fine *(vs. good). Fine has a certain ambiguity that ranges from restraint to euphemism. 

[…]


----------



## Sharrow

I am confused with 'bon' and 'bien' in these two phrases - could you tell me which is correct, please ?

le sport, c'est très bon / bien pour la santé
le sport, est aussi très bon / bien pour l'esprit d'équipe

I would have thought that 'bon' was correct, but I have seen 'bien' and would be pleased if someone could clarify this.

Merci d'avance!


----------



## ChrisPa

you'll say

le sport c'est bon pour la santé
le sport, c'est bien
le sport est aussi très bon/bien pour l'esprit d'équipe


----------



## melu85

I'd say that "bon pour" is more common.
(eg: bon pour le moral, bon pour la santé)


----------



## Cosmic_lightning

Sont-que les deux correct? Ou est-que-ce un sont correct et l'autre non? Et est ce change quand le conjugation change?

Context: 
Un rencontre le 20 octobre *serais bon* pour moi. 
Un rencontre le 20 octobre *serais bien* pour moi. 

OU

Le restaurant *est bon.* 
Le restaurant *est bien. *

Je pense que "étre bon" est mieux, mais je sais pas. Pouvez-vous m'aider? 

Merci beaucoup 
Cosmic


----------



## vost

Cosmic_lightning said:


> Une rencontre le 20 octobre *serais bon* pour moi.
> Une rencontre le 20 octobre *serais bien* pour moi.
> les deux veulent dire la même chose mais je ne dirait pas cela. _Une rencontre le 20 octobre m'irait bien_
> 
> Le restaurant *est bon.* la nourriture est bonne
> Le restaurant *est bien. *l'endroit est agréable et la nourriture est bonne


----------



## Cosmic_lightning

Merci, vost  ça m'aide beaucoup. 
Pour clarification... donc la signification du "bien" est plus... complète que la signification du "bon"?


----------



## OLN

_- bon_ is adj. or noun

une rencontre X serai*t *bon*ne :* correct grammatically, but not used
une encontre X, ce serait bon (informal)
une rencontre X me conviendrait 

_- bien_ is adverb or noun, but can be used as an adj. (inv.), more likely in informal sentence (_il est bien_ instead of _il va bien, il est gentil_, etc.)

une rencontre X, ce serait bien (informal)
--------------
_ce restaurant est bien_ (informal way to says _the place is OK_ for whatever reason) is not as strong as _ce restaurant est bon_ (the food is good there).
You can't say _la nourriture est bien_ ; it should be _bonne._ 
But you say :_ on y mange bien_ (adv.)


----------



## vost

Cosmic_lightning said:


> Pour clarification... donc la signification du "bien" est plus... complète que la signification du "bon"?



pas forcement. 

dans le cas du restaurant, "bon" ne qualifie que la nourriture. "bien" peut qualifier le décors, la nourriture, l'accueil,etc. ou une combinaison de ces critères (le contexte apporte en général des précisions) 

mais les deux mots ne sont pas toujours utilisables : il y a des cas où seulement un des deux est possible. cela dépends de la phrase.

par exemple: il s'habille bien (impossible de mettre "bon")

à cette heure avancée de la nuit, j'ai un peu de mal à donner une règle...


----------



## lefrancophile

*c'est bien d'être sage OU c'est bon d'être sage ?*

En général, je comprends la différence entre "bon" et "bien" mais j'hésite un peu ici.

Merci.


----------



## janpol

C'est bien = c'est conforme à l'idée que ma raison se fait du Bien
c'est bon = ça m'apporte du plaisir


----------



## Montaigne

On peut dire "il est bon d'être sage" (et d'éviter les plaisirs interdits !).


----------



## babe2412

Bonjour, je confirme que la phrase "il est bon d'être sage" traduit l'état d'une personne raisonnable.


----------



## itka

_bien _et _bon _ne sont pas toujours facile à distinguer.

A priori, je suis assez de l'avis de Janpol : _"bien"_ se réfère à la raison, _"bon" _au plaisir, à la satisfaction intime qu'on en retire.

_Il est bon d'être sage_ : il est certain que c'est plus raisonnable (et comment en serait-il autrement avec l'adjectif "sage" ?), mais il est vrai aussi que ce comportement entraîne pour le "sage" un certain agrément d'être en conformité avec les valeurs de son groupe.


----------



## timpeac

Les explications ci-haut me suggèrent que "il est bon d'être sage" serait "it's nice to be wise" ou "it does you good to be wise" en anglais, et "il est bien d'être sage" serait "it's good to be wise". C'est juste ?


----------



## babe2412

Pour moi, "it's good to be wise" !

Voilà


----------



## cjenny658

Yes, 'elle est bonne' means 'she's hot' and doesn't necessarily mean 'she's good in bed'. However, many guys think that because a girl is hot, she is good in bed...


----------



## Cardinasty

Yep that's right, slang-wise "Elle est *bonne*" = "She is hot" whereas "Elle est *bonne au pieu*" = "She's good in the sack"


----------



## LV4-26

This may lead to misunderstandings. In the movie _Meilleur Espoir Féminin_, the acress' father is invited to the premiere of her first movie. For some reason, he looses his way and finds himself in the projection booth. A few men are watching the film from there and keep saying:
"E_lle est bonne_"
He thinks they're saying his daughter is talented, that she's a good actress.
When, in fact, they mean "_she's hot_".
Which he realizes only afterwards, much to his disappointment.


----------



## Charlie51

I've read several threads and realise that both "bien" and "bon" can be used as adjectives meaning "good" but I'm still not sure which one to use.

For example, how would you translate, "Mon livre est bien" and "Mon livre est bon"? What's the difference in meaning between the two?

Merci d'avance!


----------



## Maître Capello

Actually, we would only say, _Mon livre est bien_ (= My book is good), and not, _Mon livre est bon_, which doesn't sound right…

This  topic is indeed pretty tricky for non natives. It is also quite hard  for natives to explain it clearly since we don't need to think about  which term to use when speaking. Moreover, there is no simple rule that  works in all circumstances—there are indeed many different cases.  Anyway, let me try to give you a concise yet meaningful answer.

_Bien_,  which is an adverb and usually used as such, can however also be used  as a predicative adjective. (In short, it can also be used right after _être_, e.g., _X est bien_.) As a matter of fact, as predictive adjective, we often use _bien_ (e.g., _C'est bien_, _Ce film est bien_, or_ Cette fille est bien_). On the other hand, we use _bon_ for smell, taste, etc. (e.g., _La soupe est bonne_), or to talk about a good person (e.g., _Dieu est bon_), or when saying that someone is good at something (e.g., _Il est bon en maths_)…

In short, to say _My book is good_, you should say, _Mon livre est *bien*_.

(On the other hand, note that we say, _C'est un *bon* livre_ because _bon_ is not a predicative adjective but an attributive one—it is right next to the noun it modifies (here _livre_) without any intervening verb.)


----------



## garoto36

on dit plutôt, 

"c'est bien pour moi"

ou

"c'est bon pour moi" ?

par exemple, pour confirmer que un tel jour me convient (pour dîner).


----------



## Guill

C'est bon pour moi.

But more naturally you'd say "Ça me va".


----------



## Rangoon

Bonjour tout le monde, 

Je voudrais d'abord attirer votre attention sur trois faits qui me semblent importants :

- *Bien* est un adverbe à la base, mais il accepte d'être employé comme adjectif dans certains cas particuliers et limités.
- *Bon* est un adjectif à la base, mais il accepte d'être employé comme adverbe dans certains cas particuliers et limités.
- L'adjectif bon, comme certains autres adjectifs courts et courants, change souvent de sens selon qu'il est placé avant ou après le nom :
Un bon ministre (=compétent), un ministre bon (=généreux); une bonne femme (= quelconque, n'importe laquelle), une femme bonne (= généreuse).

Cela étant dit, voici les principales différences d'emploi entre bon et bien :

*Bien *************************************Bon*
_Contraire _: mal *************************** mauvais
_Comparatif_: mieux ********************* *** meilleur
 Traduction : _well _**************************_good_

_Généralement : *sens moral, éthique* _**********_*jouissance, plaisir*_
_Se rapproche de juste, honnête, utile. _**********_Se rapproche du plaisir, du goût,__ des cinq sens,_ mais il a aussi le sens de « bonne qualité ».

*I/ Comme Adjectif*

*1) Employé seul*
 - C’est bien ! (comportement, action,) **********- C’est bon ! (cuisine, massage)
_= réussi, correct, parfait. _********************_= agréable, procure du plaisir_
 (On sous-entend : c’est bien _fait_.)

*2) Personne (humain) ***********************(bon placé après le nom)*
 - Sa mère est bien. ************************- Sa mère est bonne.
 - C’est un type bien. ***********************- C’est un type bon.
 - C’est des gens bien. **********************- C’est des gens bons.
 - C’est un garçon bien. *********************- C’est un garçon bon.
_= honorable, convenable, estimable, de _***********_= généreux _
_ bonne réputation [moral] _

 - Elle est bien, cette fille. (familier) ************- Elle est bonne, cette fille. (fam.)
_= belle, jolie (selon le contexte) _****************_= sexuellement désirable_ _(péjoratif)_

 - Ils sont bien. ***************************- Ils sont bons. _(= généreux)._
_= contents, à l’aise_

*(* =Incorrect)* ****************************(bon placé avant le nom)*
 - *Un acteur bien. ************************- Un bon acteur.
 - *Un artiste bien. ************************- Un bon artiste.
*********************************""""""""""*_= compétent, qui fait_ _son travail_ correctement.

*3) Objets/idées *
* (* = Incorrect) ****************************(placé avant le nom)*
 - * Une cuisine bien. **********************- Une bonne cuisine.
 - * Un bain bien. *************************- Un bon bain.
 - * Un souvenir bien. **********************- Un bon souvenir.
****************************************_= agréable, qui procure du plaisir._

 - * Un film bien. **************************- Un bon film.
 - * Un spectacle bien. *********************- Un bon spectacle.
 = à la fois réussi et agréable

 - * Une distance bien. ********************- Un bonne distance.
 - * Une dose bien. ***********************- une bonne dose.
_ = intense, importante_

 (Emploi accepté, mais très familier)
 - Il est bien, ce film/ spectacle ! *************- Il est bon, ce film/spectacle !

*(* =Incorrect)* ************************* *(bon placé avant le nom)*
 - *Un outil bien. ************************ - Un bon outil.
 - *Un livre bien. ************************ - Un bon livre.
**************************************_= de bonne qualité, efficace_

*II/ Comme Adverbe*

 - Elle danse/chante/dessine bien. *********** - *Elle danse bon. (incorrect)
 - C’est bien dit/fait/organisé. ************** - *C’est bon dit/fait/organisé.
_= de manière satisfaisante, admirable._

 - Elle se porte bien. ********************* - *Elle se porte bon.
 - Elle est bien (selon le contexte) *********** - *Elle est bon
_= elle est en bonne santé._

 - Nous sommes bien contents. ************* - *Nous sommes bon contents.
_= très (contents)._

 - *Ça sent bien. *********************** - Ça sent bon.
**************************************_= dégager une odeur agréable_
 - *Il tient bien . ************************- Il tient bon.
**************************************_= il résiste intensément, fermement_


----------



## Neo101

Hi Fetchezlavache, I live in Belgium. Today I was at the grocery store, the woman asked me if i needed an extra bag after packing groceries. I replied ignorantly with C'est Bon, C'est Bien and i think she did not like the response. Did I say something wrong? any help appreciated.


----------



## Micia93

Welcome Neo 

she expected an answer like "yes please", or "no, thanks, I don't need one"
if you say "c'est bien" or "c'est bon", what do you mean : "having an extra bag, or not requiring one?


----------



## Neo101

Hi Micia,

Many thanks for your reply 

I meant no, i do not need an extra bag. I replied C'est bon, but I think I might have offended her? Why so? What would she have thought? I try really hard not to be rude, but I am only learning 

Any help appreciated.


----------



## The Broken Rib Inn

It is rather agressive to say "c'est bon, c'est bon" or "c'est bien, c'est bien". (so, "C'est bon, c'est bien" gives the same impression). You can feel anger or irritation in the tone the person uses when he or she says that.
For instance :

- Alors, est-ce que tu viens demain ?
- C'est bon, c'est bon ! Arrête de m'énerver, je vais venir.

And another example with "c'est bien, c'est bien".

- Regarde, papa, le beau dessin que j'ai fait !
- C'est bien, c'est bien, mais je n'ai pas le temps.


----------



## Neo101

Thanks Broken Rib, it was not meant to be aggressive, all i wanted to say is, it is fine, thanks really.


----------



## temple09

To add to a huge list ... my friend wrote to me "j'espère que le pub que tu as expérimenté était bien" (I hope that the pub that you tried was good).
I can't understand why she didn't use "bon" rather than "bien" for this. _C'est un bon pub/J'espère que le pub était bon_. Non?


----------



## Maître Capello

Note that the usage of_ bien_ and _bon_ is different if used predicatively or attributively.

Hence only _bien_ is possible in your first sentence:
_J'espère que le pub que tu as essayé était *bien*_. 
_J'espère que le pub que tu as essayé était *bon*_.  (It would sound as if you were asking whether the pub tasted good!)
_J'espère que le gâteau que tu as goûté était *bon*_. 

On the other hand, you can say both for your other example, but the meaning is a bit different:
_C'est un *bon* pub._ → It is a nice place to go, etc.
_C'est un pub *bien*._ → The management and staff are nice people, they have good values.


----------



## temple09

Thank you Maître Capello. Although I'm still a bit confused. If the example referred to a cake then one would use "bon", but if it were a pub then it would be "bien" (in the _esperer _example).
But could I use "bien" for the cake if I omit "goûté"? [_j'espère que le gâteau que tu as préparé était _...] I.e. If I am referring to its all round quality (appearance and consistency _as well as _its taste)


----------



## Maître Capello

_Le gâteau était *bon*_. → The cake tasted good.
_Le gâteau était *bien*_. → The cake was nice.


----------



## chiartis

would you say:

le groupe de musique est très bon / bien?
I would use the adjective bon, but I have heard bien in this context, too...


----------



## Micia93

I'd spontanously say "bon"
to me, "bon" applies to the music, while "bien" applies more to the singers (behaviour, look ...)


----------



## jxi1827

Hi, so I've read through this thread a few times (just like I have the meilleur/mieux post on which I just posted another question) and I have a small question.  One of my French friends told me the other day "Son niveau de français est bon"  I was wondering why it isn't "bien" in this case since you would say something like "Cette série est bien" or a lot of other sentences with bien.  

Also, is this a cultural thing?  Because I know someone who lives in Quebec, Canada and they insist that you never say that something "est bien" and that it's always "bon"

Thanks everyone and happy new year!
-John


----------



## Beauceron-puppy

js364574

_Bien_ peut être utilisé soit comme un adjectif, soit comme un adverbe. C'est également un nom commun.
_Bon_ est uniquement un adjectif

Je te donne des exemples

ADV. Je me suis bien musclé ces dernières semaines ; la piscine, il n'y a pas de doute, ça marche!
ADV. Tu as bien fait de l'inviter, au moins il ne pourra plus dire qu'on ne pense pas lui.
ADV. Tu veux bien me prêter de l'argent ? Je te le rend dès la semaine prochaine, promis!
ADJ. C'était bien ta soirée du reveillon ? Oui, on était au moins cinquante !
ADJ. C'était un homme bien, il faisait toujours passer le plaisir des ses enfants avant le sien.
NC.  Les biens de M. Dupond lui permettaient de vivre une vie confortable.
NC.  L'ancien adjoint au maire de Strasbourg avait tendance à confondre le bien publique et ses deniers personnels. (he was stealing tax-payers money)


I hope it helped 
BP

And Happy New Year!


----------



## DearPrudence

Hi jr364574 

Personally, I don't have the courage to reread the whole thread again but in France as well "Son niveau est bon" is correct.
When you are talking about a level, we use "bon".
_"*Son niveau* en anglais est *excellent / très bon / médiocre / mauvais*."
"Il a un __*excellent / très bon niveau."*__
"*Cet élève *est *excellent / bon / médiocre / mauvais *en anglais."
"*Son devoir* est *excellent / bon / médiocre / mauvais*."_
(it is all about the quality or level here)

But strangely enough, when teachers put annotations on a student's paper, they usually use:
*"très bien (TB) / bien (B) / assez bien (AB)"*
as "C'est très bien / C'est bien / C'est assez bien"
but will write
*"Très bon devoir / Bon devoir / Assez bon devoir"*


----------



## jxi1827

Oh, I think that really helps a lot - thank you! However, the one thing that confuses me is whether you would say "Ton anglais est bon" or "Ton anglais est bien"? I think it's "bon" since it's kind of like a level, but I may also be talking about just the quality or saying they speak well.  Also, would you happen to know if this differs by culture, like with what I said about my Canadian friend?

Thanks!


----------



## Micia93

if you just talk about the quality, you would phrase it a different way :"tu parles bien anglais", but I wouldn't say "ton anglais est bien"


----------



## jxi1827

Would you say "ton anglais est bon"? Also, would you happen to know the answer about the cultural differences with Bon and bien? Thanks!


----------



## Micia93

yes, I would say "ton anglais est bon", but "tu parles bien anglais"
"bien" : de manière satisfaisante (tu travailles bien)
"bon" : qui convient, qui est conforme à la norme
these 2 explanations (linked to your context) are only 2 extracts from more comprehensive definitions in a dictionary. I don't know if it will help you anyway


----------



## KennyHun

En parlant d'une prestation (chant, théâtre, etc.) individuelle (quelqu'un monte sur scène 5-10 minutes et il n'y a que lui), pour la qualifier, vous diriez bien "c'était (très) *bien*" ? D'après ce que je crois avoir compris, "bon" ne s'emploierait pas dans ce cas, mais ces doutes sempiternels continuent à planer au-dessus de ma tête...


----------



## Maître Capello

Effectivement, dans ce cas on dirait : _C'était très *bien*_.


----------



## Micia93

En "bon" français ("bon" ici = "correct"), tu as raison MC, mais le sens de "bon" a un peu dévié je crois. Beaucoup de "djeuns" diront "bon" à la place. Du style, "qu'est-ce qu'il est bon ce film/spectacle/concert ..."
Ca ne va pas aider KennyHun


----------



## Maître Capello

Ah bon ?  (Non, je ne vais certainement pas dire _Ah bien !_ )


----------



## Emmanue11e

Would a teacher say _Les examens étaient bien _or _Les examens étaient bons _if he/she wanted to say that students did a good job? Normally I would say _bons_, but I am confused by the example _Il était bien, ce film _and the people who say _bon _should be reserved for food, smell, and things related to pleasure.


----------



## Maître Capello

I'd say, _Les résultats (des examens) étaient *bons*_.


----------



## Nawaq

or something else altogether maybe :" les examens se sont bien passés"


----------



## vost

the exams by themselves can neither be _bien _nor _bons_. only their results or their run can be called in such a way.
_les examens se sont bien passés_ means the exams run smoothly, while _les résultats des examens sont bons_ means the students performed well.
the only case I can think of where one may say _les examens sont bons_ is when that person talks about medical exams and it's an abridged version of _les resultats des examens sont bons_.
hope it helps.


----------



## Gérard Napalinex

Emmanue11e said:


> Would a teacher say _Les examens étaient bien _or _Les examens étaient bons _if he/she wanted to say that students did a good job?


In this context, "les examens étaient bons" would be a pretty common way of conveying the idea - and every one would get the picture.
Since your question is about what one would say, I would not comment whether this is right or wrong 



Emmanue11e said:


> (...) but I am confused by the example _Il était bien, ce film _and the people who say _bon _should be reserved for food, smell, and things related to pleasure.


"ce film était bien" would mean you liked it as a whole, for the feelings the film gave you.
"ce film était bon" would more specifically refer to the technical qualities of the film, including framing, light, scenery, actors play - but even script.
Well at least, that's the way I would choose my words !


----------



## Maître Capello

vost said:


> the exams by themselves can neither be _bien _nor _bons_. only their results or their run can be called in such a way.
> _les examens se sont bien passés_ means the exams run smoothly, while _les résultas des examens sont bons_ means the students performed well.
> the only case I can think of where one may say _les examens sont bons_ is when that person talks about medical exams and it's an abridged version of _les resultasts des examens sont bons_.


 I agree with vost's comments. You could however say _Les examens étaient bien_, but in a totally different context, as in, "The exams used to be good/useful/well-designed."


----------



## Gérard Napalinex

vost said:


> *the only case *I can think of where one may say _les examens sont bons_ is when  (...)


Maybe you can try to meet some teachers - instead of doctors


----------



## Maître Capello

I don't deny that some teachers may be using it, but I wouldn't. For some reason it doesn't sound right to me.


----------

