# basil



## Hemza

Hello,

Can someone shed a light on how is said basil in Arabic? I find ريحان and حبق. Or are both correct? Or do they point out at different species?

Thank you.


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## akhooha

I think ريحان is more widely used to describe basil (Ocimum basilicum).  حبق is actually another plant entirely (Veronica anagallis aquatica L.), but I believe حبق  is sometimes used in Egypt to refer to basil.


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## Mahaodeh

Up to my knowledge it's ريحان. I don't know whether in Egypt they use a different name or not.


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## tounsi51

We use حبق in Tunisia


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## cherine

akhooha said:


> I believe حبق  is sometimes used in Egypt to refer to basil.


No, we don't use حبق in Egypt (unless it's used in a sub-dialect that I'm unaware of). The term for basil is ri7aan.


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## Hemza

Thank you all. In Morocco, حبق is used to refer to basil. 


akhooha said:


> حبق is actually another plant entirely (Veronica anagallis aquatica)



Are you sure? Because when I type حبق on google, it gives me plenty results related to basil... Or is it because of Maghreb's usage of the word?


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## djara

In Ibn al-Baytar's al Jami' li mufradat al aghdhiya wal adwiya, you find many types of حبق some of which are related/equated with ريحان

*حبق: أبو حنيفة: هو بالعربية الفودنج بالفارسية وفيه مشابهة من الريحانة التي تسمى النمام ويكثر على الماء نباته.
حبق الماء: هو الفودنج النهري، وهو حبق التمساح بالديار المصرية وأهل الشام يسمونه نعنع الماء وسنذكر الفودنج بأنواعه في حرف الفاء.
حبق القنا: هو المرزنجوش وسنذكره في الميم.
حب الفيل: قيل إنه المرزنجوش وأظنه تصحيفاً من حبق القنا.
حب الراعي: هو البرنجاسف والبلنجاسف أيضاً وبالعربية الشويلا وقد ذكر في الباء.
حبق نبطي: هو ريحان الجماجم وسنذكره فيما بعد.
حبق البقر: هو البابونج وقد ذكرته في الباء.
حبق قرنفلي: هو الفرنجمشك والبرنجمشك وسأذكره في الفاء.
حبق ترنجاني: هو الريحان المعروف بالباذرنجيوية وقد ذكروا أيضاً نوعاً من الريحان يسمى بذلك.
حبق صعتري: وحبق كرماني وهو الشاهسفرم وسأذكره في الشين العجمعة.
حبق الشيوخ: وريحان الشيوخ هو المر وسيأتي ذكره في الميم.
حبق ريحاني: هو الحبق الدقيق الورق.*


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## Hemza

That's interesting! So both would be correct if I understand your extract well?


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## djara

Hemza said:


> So both would be correct


I don't think in terms of 'correct' and 'incorrect'.
In language, what matters is usage. If a word is widely used, it is correct.


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## Hemza

djara said:


> I don't think in terms of 'correct' and 'incorrect'.
> In language, what matters is usage. If a word is widely used, it is correct.



I partially disagree (and partially agree then) with your last statement but I lack the vocabulary to explain why . Yet I've got what you mean for what concerns حبق and ريحان. Thank you


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## Mahaodeh

Hemza said:


> but I lack the vocabulary to explain why



Let me give it a stab . Usage alone is not sufficient for the word to be correct. It has to be used widely enough and long enough for it to be correct. For example, the above word has been used long enough and widely enough in North African dialects to be correct, but not so in eastern dialects. Standard Arabic seems to be matter that can be disputed. While it's been used long enough, I don't know how widely it has been used and there seems to be a lot of details related. If I were writing something in MSA about basil I would probably write: الريحان أو الحبق كما يعرف في المغرب العربي to avoid any confusion.


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## Hemza

Thanks @Mahaodeh , you could express what I meant.

To come back on the topic, I've found something even more puzzling:

الريحان طارد السموم من الجسم

"أما في الغرب فيسمونه «الآس» وعند العرب «الريحان»، وأهل العراق والشام يسمونه «الحبق»"

I'm a bit lost. Isn't الاس myrtle? What about الشام والعراق واليمن? Is the website wrong may be?


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## djara

Mahaodeh said:


> It has to be used widely enough and long enough for it to be correct.


I did say 'widely used' 



Hemza said:


> I'm a bit lost. Isn't الاس myrtle? What about الشام والعراق واليمن? Is the website wrong may be?


Basil 100-150 cm high? I think he's talking about myrtle.
Regarding spices, I strongly recommend this site:
gernot katzers spice pages it lists 117 different spices in more than 100 languages, including Arabic! Here's the link to basil and he provides both حبق and ريحان
And here's what he says about myrtle:
Arabic آس; ريحان, مورد, رند, مرسين رَيْحَان, رَنْد As, Hadass, Rand, Murd; Raihan (North Africa only)


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## Hemza

djara said:


> Basil 100-150 cm high? I think he's talking about myrtle.



Mmm I didn't pay attention to this part .



> Regarding spices, I strongly recommend this site:
> gernot katzers spice pages it lists 117 different spices in more than 100 languages, including Arabic! Here's the link to basil and he provides both حبق and ريحان
> And here's what he says about myrtle:
> Arabic آس; ريحان, مورد, رند, مرسين رَيْحَان, رَنْد As, Hadass, Rand, Murd; Raihan (North Africa only)



Thanks for the website  it is very interesting! I'm going to keep it, I like learning about herbs.

I found this on the basil's page:

_Iberic names of basil (Spanish albahaca, Portuguese alfavaca and Catalan alfàbrega, also Basque albaraka) are Arabic loans, as might be inferred from the prefix al-. The original Arabic form is al-habaqa [الحبق] the basil; cf. also Maltese ħabaq and Aramaic hauk [ܚܘܟ], and see caper for more examples of Arabic vocabulary in Spanish and Portuguese. In contemporary Arabic as spoken in Asia and the Eastern Mediterranean, habaq [حبق] has become rather uncommon and mostly supplanted by ar-raihan [الريحان]_

Does it mean that حبق used to point to basil outside the Maghreb as well as in فصحى but today, it has been supplanted by ريحان while حبق stayed in use in the Maghreb (Maghreb's dialects including Maltese sometimes really sound old fashioned haha).

After what, the site tells us this:

_Raihan is derived from Arabic rih [ريح] or riha [ريحة] odour, fragrance and originally did not mean basil but another aromatic Mediterranean plant, myrtle. This is still so in North African Arabic (and Maltese); moreover, the word has been transferred to medieval Spanish as arrayán_ myrtle

This is true, when I asked my mum, she told me that ريحان means myrtle in Morocco while basil was حبق. I guess the same goes from Mauritania to Libya then? Eastwards of Libya, if only ريحان is used for basil, I wonder what word is used in Yemen (the site I quoted in my precedent message says حابي) I suspect that حبق may be used there to this day? I often found words existing in the Maghreb and nowhere else yet in Yemen.


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## Hemza

Edit: I learnt (thanks to a Saudi friend) that in Najdi, people call it حبق too (pronouned 7abag).


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## elroy

I'm 99% sure حبق is used in Palestinian Arabic for "basil," so I don't think this is specific to North Africa.


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## Hemza

elroy said:


> I'm 99% sure حبق is used in Palestinian Arabic for "basil," so I don't think this is specific to North Africa.



Hello . After I saw your reply, I asked my Palestinian mates (all from various locations) which word was used across Palestine, they all told me ريحان and ignored what was حبق. I didn't tell them about you beforehand to not influence their replies. This said that doesn't negate what you said of course.


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## elroy

This article from an Israeli website gives حبق as the Arabic equivalent of the Hebrew בזיליקום ("basil").  I can only assume the Arabic translation was provided for Hebrew-speaking Palestinians who may not be familiar with the Hebrew term (which is a cognate of "basil").


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## Hemza

elroy said:


> This article from an Israeli website gives حبق as the Arabic equivalent of the Hebrew בזיליקום ("basil").  I can only assume the Arabic translation was provided for Hebrew-speaking Palestinians who may not be familiar with the Hebrew term (which is a cognate of "basil").


Thanks, I could locate the word within the article. Yet, no one of my mates (I know 9 Palestinians including one who is over 50 years old الله يطول عمرها) but amongst them, no one knows حبق. Would ريحان be peculiar to the West Bank while حبق would be to your area?

At the same time, the article that I posted its link (see #12) says that حبق is used in العراق والشام which gives credit to your statement (not that I didn't believe you on the first instance).




akhooha said:


> but I believe حبق  is sometimes used in Egypt to refer to basil.


Probably amongst Western bedouins whose dialect is akin to Eastern Libyan (But do bedouins there use basil at first?)? At least, my Egyptian friend (from the Nile) merely knows ريحان for basil and Cherine's message shows he's not the only one.


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## Hemza

I've met a Syrian guy from الحوران (Southern Syria) and he told me they call it حبق too while I also know another Palestinian from رام الله and he completely ignores حبق, he only knows ريحان. The use of both terms seems completely illogical geographically speaking  it looks like there is no continuum but rather ceases between areas.

Any input from Sudanese?


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