# flee / escape



## ofriendragon

flee / escape

Could you please tell me what's the difference between them?

Many thanks in advance.


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## Mjolnir

Flee sounds more dramatic?


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## deddish

Escape involves getting away from some form of captivity or imprisonment, whereas you can 'flee' from nothing in particular if you feel like it. (Unlikely, but possible.)


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## panjandrum

You may flee in an attempt to escape, but be caught before you actually escape.

And of course you can escape from something without fleeing at all.


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## Binario

I guess, flee refers mostly to physical movement, like to run away from something, whereas to escape may mean just "to avoid" without actually lifting a finger.


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## Trisia

Binario said:


> I guess, flee refers mostly to physical movement, like to run away from something, whereas to escape may mean just "to avoid" without actually lifting a finger.



But you don't always need to run in order to flee temptation, and I've often heard of people trying to escape from prison, and I don't mean with the help of their lawyers.

I really dig Panj's answer by the way.


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## Lexiphile

Flee certainly implies a physical movement from someplace or to someplace (usually both). You can flee the country, flee to Brazil or flee over the mountain.

Escape can and often is figurative. You can escape from gaol/jail (not figurative) or you can escape punishment (figurative) or you can escape from you wife (a bit of both).

Edit: thinks: should I delete this post, since everyone else has said the same thing at the same time.


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## zaffy

A police vehicle was chasing a vehicle with suspects. The car developed a flat tire but *continued to flee*. 

Would "escape" work as well?


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## Trisia

"escaping" implies some form of success for me.

It would have to be "continued their escape _attempt_" or something along those lines.


(That said, I don't know if people would mind you using "escape" that much)


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## Roxxxannne

I would not use 'escape' here. In this case 'escape' strongly implies to me that they were eventually able to evade capture.


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## zaffy

And could we use "run away"? I guess we could use it when referring to the suspects, but not the vehicle, right?

_The suspects continue to run away.  
The vehicle continued to run away. _


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## Roxxxannne

I would expect suspects to run away only if they were actually running, rather than driving a car, bicycling, riding snowmobiles, etc.
I don't think a vehicle would normally be said to run away, although if it were parked on a hill without the brake on, it could roll away.  If its rolling away caused some kind of incident worthy of a newspaper story, the headline might be  "Runaway Car Smashes Farm Stand, Wrecks Pumpkin Display."


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## zaffy

So if I'm asking about the final result, does only 'escape' work?

Did the suspects manage to escape? Sadly, they did.
Did the suspects manage to flee? Sadly, they did.


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## Roxxxannne

Escaping is the result of their fleeing, so in my opinion only the first would work if the question is about the result.


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## Myridon

zaffy said:


> So if I'm asking about the final result, does only 'escape' work?
> 
> Did the suspects manage to escape? Sadly, they did.
> Did the suspects manage to flee? Sadly, they did.


The suspect fled the scene only to be captured before they reached the airport. They did fled but they did not escape.


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## zaffy

And do all of them work in this context?

Mom, what do I do if I see a wildboar? Should I *escape/flee/run away* or lie down and play dead?


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## anthox

zaffy said:


> And do all of them work in this context?
> 
> Mom, what do I do if I see a wildboar? Should I *escape/flee/run away* or lie down and play dead?



I feel like a kid would say "run away". "Flee" is also possible but not really natural for a kid to say here. "Escape" isn't synonymous with the others, it suggests fleeing successfully and getting safely away.


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## Myridon

(Being picky) You should *try to* escape, flee, run, *try to* run away (success implied by "away"), or lie down and play dead.
Like "escape", "run away" implies that you get away from the boar instead of running and being caught.
If you flee, run, or lie down and play dead for even a moment, you have successfully done those things.


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## anthox

Myridon said:


> (Being picky) You should *try to* escape, flee, run, *try to* run away (success implied by "away"), or lie down and play dead.
> Like "escape", "run away" implies that you get away from the boar instead of running and being caught.
> If you flee, run, or lie down and play dead for even a moment, you have successfully done those things.



You have a point. I do think that "try to run away" or simply "run" are ultimately better than "run away" here.


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## zaffy

And how do I describe what is going on here? Well, I know I could say a police officer is chasing some guy, but how do I put it if I start the sentence with "some guy"?

Some guy is escaping from a police officer.
Some guy is fleeing a police officer
Some guy is running from a police officer.
Some guy is running away from a police officer.


Or would it be better to use "trying to" again. If so, which verb after "trying to"?


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## CaptainZero

If he's escaping, that means the cop isn't going to catch him, and you can't know that from the picture, so your first choice is incorrect. The others are OK, but I'd say "fleeing *from*".


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## Myridon

(Being picky again)
He is running (away from the police officer).  
He is (running away) (from the police officer).  
These sentences are written and spoken the same so who can tell that you're not using the first one.


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## zaffy

Myridon said:


> He is running (away from the police officer).
> He is (running away) (from the police officer).


Interesting. I see your point. So if spoken, the stress will be put differently and it'd be clear which version is used. And would both versions work?


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## Myridon

Myridon said:


> These sentences are written and spoken the same so who can tell that you're not using the first one.


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## Myridon

Actually, you would stress it differently when saying:
He's not running toward the police. He's running away from the police.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

zaffy said:


> And how do I describe what is going on here? Well, I know I could say a police officer is chasing some guy, but how do I put it if I start the sentence with "some guy"?
> 
> Some guy is escaping from a police officer. ; OK with "trying to escape"
> Some guy is fleeing a police officer. , but it sounds a bit formal to me.
> Some guy is running from a police officer.
> Some guy is running away from a police officer.
> 
> 
> Or would it be better to use "trying to" again. If so, which verb after "trying to"?
> View attachment 69231


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## kentix

Escaping suggests you have previously been under some kind of control, even if that control was only psychological or very brief. So if a policeman pulls up when you're in the middle of a crime, in that sense you are caught, even if you are not physically under control, and you might try to escape. If you successfully flee (move quickly to put distance between you and the officer) then you have escaped the situation and escaped arrest (at least for the moment).

But you can flee without it being a direct escape.

"When he heard the police were looking for him he fled the state."

He went to a different state to avoid the police. But he wasn't being held prisoner in the first state and he wasn't on the verge of being arrested so he didn't escape.


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## zaffy

And do all of them work when an escape was successful? 

A: Get me that boy who broke the window now! 
B: Sorry, he escaped/ran away/fled.


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## kentix

We don't know because we don't know where he was or what the situation was since the window was broken. But in any case, fled is very unlikely.


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## zaffy

Say he was detained and locked in some room.


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## zaffy

And would "fled" work in this context? He's talking about two inmates who escaped from a prison. 

"She gave them power tools and they escaped/fled from this prison."


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> And would "fled" work in this context? He's talking about two inmates who escaped from a prison.
> 
> "She gave them power tools and they escaped/fled from this prison."
> 
> View attachment 69443


People escape from prison. Whenever confinement or captivity is involved, use "escape". "Flee" puts the emphasis on running, not on getting out in the first place.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> "Flee" puts the emphasis on running


So how do you understand this dictionary example?

_When police arrived the two men fled._

Do you assume they ran away or could they have escaped in their car?


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## Uncle Jack

You can flee by car. You can run away by car, for that matter.  However, choosing "flee" in that particular situation implies the men escaped on foot; if they drove away, then I expect the report would have said so.

"Escape" has many meanings, some of which overlap with "flee", but when you are talking about breaking out of confinement, only "escape" works.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> You can flee by car. *You can run away by car*, for that matter.



_When police arrived, the two men ran away._

So could that mean they ran away on bikes, by car etc? I thought you could run away on foot only, just physically running.


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## kentix

Yes, those two men were never confined. They departed from the area in haste. They didn't need to break out of any restraints.

If you have to break out of confinement with tools, you are escaping. You don't need power tools to flee.

Of course, successfully escaping usually involves a breaking out part and a fleeing part, but they are both covered by the word escape in many contexts.

"The two men escaped from from the Dade Correctional Center last year."

If they weren't caught, they did two things. They physically escaped the prison, and they successfully fled the area.


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> _When police arrived, the two men ran away._
> 
> So could that mean they ran away on bikes, by car etc? I thought you could run away on foot only, just physically running.


Readers will naturally assume they ran away on foot, and this is the usual meaning of "run away", but "run away" can be used in a wider sense that could involve any kind of vehicle. If someone ran away to America, for example, you would not assume they went there on foot.


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## zaffy

And which one do I use in a metaphorical context. 

_If you do this, you'll have guilty conscious all your life. You just won't be able to escape/flee/run away from guilt and this will kill you.  _

Does that example even work?


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## Uncle Jack

Use "escape". I have no difficulty imagining a person running away from guilt, but I also imagine guilt catching them up. The thing that they cannot do is escape. I can't say that I like the rest of the wording, but saying that you cannot escape from guilt is fine.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I think I could use either in "Millions of Ukrainians are fleeing/are escaping from their country (from Russian invaders).", for one context. Just my opinion.


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## zaffy

I heard Richard Gere talking about Ukrainian families "fleeing their homes". Does "flee" work better than "escaping" or "running away" in that collocation?


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## Hermione Golightly

'Flee' is the best word in this context. They aren't teenagers 'running away from home', nor people escaping involuntary confinement such as a jail, or patients in a mental hospital, for example.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> I heard Richard Gere talking about Ukrainian families "fleeing their homes". Does "flee" work better than "escaping" or "running away" in that collocation?


They aren't escaping from their homes because no-one is detaining them there. In China however, people may try to escape from their homes because the authorities are not allowing them out due to the Covid lockdown.

You escape from confinement/imprisonment. You flee from danger/risk.


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## zaffy

One of these women is a rape victim, which took place when she was young. To forget about that, she changed her name. The other woman found out she'd changed her name and asked why, saying "What were you running away from?"

Now, why was "run away" picked this time? It's clearly a metaphorical use and I thought she should have gone for "escape" like in #38.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And which one do I use in a metaphorical context.
> 
> _If you do this, you'll have guilty conscious all your life. You just won't be able to escape/flee/run away from guilt and this will kill you.  _
> 
> Does that example even work?


you'll have *a* guilty conscious conscience

I would use "escape" here because the person is metaphorically imprisoned by guilt. I suppose the subject can loosely be said to run away from guilt.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> One of these women is a rape victim, which took place when she was young. To forget about that, she changed her name. The other woman found out she'd changed here name and asked why, saying "What were you running away from?"
> 
> Now, why was "run away" picked this time? It's clearly a metaphorical use and I thought she should have gone for "escape" like in #38.


Not knowing the full context, I would imagine that, before she changed her name, she was figuratively running away from her attacker. Changing her name would allow her to finally _escape_ from her attacker. The friend is asking about before, not after.


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## zaffy

And would "What were you fleeing?" make sense?


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> One of these women is a rape vicitm, which took place when she was young. To forget about that, she changed her name. The other woman found out she'd changed here name and asked why, saying "What were you running away from?"
> 
> Now, why "run away" was picked this time? It's clearly a metaphorical use and I thought she should have gone for "escape" like in #38.
> 
> View attachment 71502


There are several ways of answering this. "Running away" is not the only possible wording, and to say why it was used means making guesses about the speaker's thought processes. These guesses may be wrong.

At the most obvious level, the expression refers to the action of the person changing her name. This in itself is unlikely to allow the woman to escape her past, but it is part of the process. This makes "running away" a more likely choice than "escaping", but other options are possible, such as "trying to escape".

"Run away" has negative overtones, whereas "escape" is generally neutral to positive. The speaker's choice of words might suggest she isn't sympathetic. In a different situation, the rape victim might well describe her name change as trying to escape her past.

There is the added thing that the rape victim appears not to have escaped, because the other woman has found out about


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And would "What were you fleeing make?" sense?


There are three negatives associated with this in my opinion.

(1) Metaphorical r_unning away from _problems is an idiom - fleeing is not

(2) Although "to flee" can be transitive, it is usually not. So, "What were you fleeing from?" would be better.

(3) "to flee" is somewhat old-fashioned/formal. I occasionally see it in news headlines - especially with reference to refugees from war, but I have never heard it in ordinary conversation.


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## zaffy

kentix said:


> "When he heard the police were looking for him, he* fled the state*."



And does this example work with "from"?

"When he heard the police were looking for him, he *fled from the state*."


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And does this example work with "from"?
> 
> "When he heard the police were looking for him, he *fled from the state*."


Kentix's original version "fled the state", is an excellent example of the transitive use of "flee".   I would not add "from".

We flee from war, but we flee a state that oppresses us.

I have not yet worked out the reason for this difference. Maybe the answer will come to me later.

____________________________________________
Edit

I think it is that we flee a fixed situation, but we flee from an activity or antagonist, e.g.

_He fled from the police, and then fled the country.  _

This not a cast-iron rule (there are few of those in English) but it is a good guide in my opinion.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> This makes "running away" a more likely choice than "escaping", but other options are possible, such as "trying to escape".



And if we used "trying to escape" in that rape context, would either work?

_What were you trying to escape?
What were you trying to escape from? _


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> And if we used "trying to escape" in that rape context, would either work?
> 
> _What were you trying to escape?
> What were you trying to escape from? _


They would be fine.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And if we used "trying to escape" in that rape context, would either work?
> 
> _What were you trying to escape?
> What were you trying to escape from? _


I disagree with Uncle Jack. Although both these sentences are perfect English, I don't understand how they fit the context.

Uncle Jack, what might the woman say in reply to each of the above questions?


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## kentix

Chasint said:


> (3) "to flee" is somewhat old-fashioned/formal. I occasionally see it in news headlines - especially with reference to refugees from war, but I have never heard it in ordinary conversation.


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## kentix

All I can say is that in the U.S. I think almost everyone would say "What are you running away from?" That's conversational English. Flee and escape are not.

You could also say "What are you hiding from?"


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## Chasint

kentix said:


> All I can say is that in the U.S. I think almost everyone would say "What are you running away from?" That's conversational English. Flee and escape are not.
> 
> You could also say "What are you hiding from?"


Exactly the same in Britain


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## tracer2

Uncle Jack said:


> You can flee by car. You can run away by car, for that matter.  However, choosing "flee" in that particular situation implies the men escaped on foot; if they drove away, then I expect the report would have said so.
> 
> "Escape" has many meanings, some of which overlap with "flee", but when you are talking about breaking out of confinement, only "escape" works.


I agree......

My canary escaped from his cage last night.

My canary fled from his cage last night. ??


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## Chasint

tracer2 said:


> I agree......
> 
> My canary escaped from his cage last night.
> 
> My canary fled from his cage last night. ??


The second of these is interesting. If we invent two (unlikely) scenarios, we can make sense of it - and of a similar sentence that excludes "from".

1. My canary has a new cage. It is robotic, and when the cage thinks it is time for the canary to go to bed it follows him around playing the message "Bedtime for Bobby!". I tried it out last night. My canary fled from his cage! Luckily the cage cannot fly, so Bobby was able to escape.

2. My canary's cage is made of bamboo. It caught fire while I was out of the room. Luckily the cage door was open so, when I returned, my canary had fled his cage and had escaped into the kitchen.


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## zaffy

Chasint said:


> Luckily the cage door was open so, when I returned, my canary had* fled* his cage and had *escaped* into the kitchen.


1. Great example. It helps to make the difference clearer. Using "run away" would never be used with birds as they would use no legs, would it? Even if we used "run away" figuratively like in that rape context, it's just not possible it use it, is it? Or can you think of any scenario where "run away" could work?


2. I looked 'flee' up  in a Pol-Eng dictionary and found this example. Obviously no context given and non-natives might think it means the same thing as "escape" and "run away". (In Polish we have one verb for yours three). Now, could you please tell me what context would come to your mind hearing it?


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## Chasint

1. Well a chicken could run away. In fact I think many birds can run (I know that some only hop), I'm not sure about canaries as I have never had any dealings with one. However, it is most likely that a canary would fly away.

2. The only context that comes to mind when seeing the sentence "It will be hard for them to flee this time, sir" is that of a 19th-century  author, wielding a quill pen and writing a thrilling maritime story about pirates.


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## Uncle Jack

Did Charles Dickens write thrilling maritime stories about pirates? Were you thinking of this 19th century author, perhaps? 



I think he's using a steel nib rather than a quill pen, though.  



zaffy said:


> Now, could you please tell me what context would come to your mind hearing it?


There is an unspoken "from us": It will be hard for them to flee from us this time.

In modern English, I think the intended meaning is "escape" rather than simply running away. It does not really matter whether or not they run away, so long as we capture them eventually. In this way, I suppose "flee" combines elements of both words, but as others have said, it is not used much in modern English.


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## Chasint

Uncle Jack said:


> Did Charles Dickens write thrilling maritime stories about pirates? ...



Indeed he did! Will the following convince you? 



> Holiday Romance by Charles Dickens: Part I
> the colonel, combining with his lawless pursuit (he is a pirate), suggested an attack with fireworks. This, however, from motives of
> 
> The Perils of Certain English Prisoners by Charles Dickens
> Island was considered a good post of observation against the pirates, both by land and sea; neither the pirate ship nor yet her boats had been
> 
> A Child's History of England by Charles Dickens: Ch. 3 - The Good ...
> way - among them a fierce pirate of the name of HASTINGS, who had ... built large ships nevertheless, with which to pursue the pirates on





> Great Expectations by Charles Dickens: Chapter 1
> The man was limping on towards this latter, as if he were the pirate come to life, and come down, and going back to hook himself up again.
> 
> Reprinted Pieces by Charles Dickens: Our School
> ... by the hand that now chronicles these recollections - in which his father figured as a Pirate, and was shot for a voluminous catalogue of atrocities: ...
> 
> Great Expectations by Charles Dickens: Chapter 2
> If I slept at all that night, it was only to imagine myself drifting down the river on a strong spring-tide, to the Hulks; a ghostly pirate calling out to ...


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## zaffy

And how do I understand "escape" used as a key in a keyboard? It doesn't make much sense to me, to be honest. How do you sense it? What if someone came up with an idea of calling it 'flee'?


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And how do I understand "escape" used as a key in a keyboard? It doesn't make much sense to me, to be honest. How do you sense it? What if someone came up with an idea of calling it 'flee'?


"To flee" implies physical motion away from danger. "To escape" implies extricating oneself from difficulty or imprisonment. It does not always require physical motion.



> _Why “escape”? Bemer could have used another word — say, “interrupt” — but he opted for “ESC,” a tiny monument to his own angst. Bemer was a worrier. In the 1970s, he began warning about the Y2K bug, explaining to Richard Nixon’s advisers the computer disaster that could occur in the year 2000. Today, with our relatively stable computers, few of us need the panic button. But Bob Frankston, a pioneering programmer, says he still uses the ESC key. “There’s something nice about having a get-me-the-hell-out-of-here key.”_
> The History of the Escape Key


Suppose a computer program is stuck in a loop. The programmer does not want to have to switch the computer off and then on again. The Escape key can be used to get out of the infinite loop and back to normal operation.


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## zaffy

You mentioned earlier "flee" is not used in everyday conversational language. So for sure this Oxford example sounds like a news report line, doesn't it?

_The driver fled the scene of the accident._

Now, how could we say the same thing in casual conversation? I guess "run away" sounds better, doesn't it? Or does either sound natural? 

_Can you imagine the driver got out of the car and escaped?
Can you imagine the driver got out of the car and ran away?_


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## Chasint

Afterthought

A Flee button would perhaps sound a siren, thus alerting everyone in the building that there was a fire or a bombing raid, and they should immediately run to safety.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> You mentioned earlier "flee" is not used in everyday conversational language. So for sure this Oxford example sounds like a news report line, doesn't it?
> 
> _The driver fled the scene of the accident._


That sounds like a news clip or part of a police report.



zaffy said:


> Now, how could we say the same thing in casual conversation? I guess "run away" sounds better, doesn't it? Or does either sound natural?
> 
> _(1) Can you imagine the driver got out of the car and escaped?
> (2) Can you imagine the driver got out of the car and ran away?_



For (1) I imagine that the car was on fire, or that the driver was being held hostage by a passenger. The victim managed to get out of the car and escape from being injured by the fire or the assailant.

For (2) I imagine that the police stopped the car. A suspect got out of the car and ran away from the police.


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## zaffy

And does this Oxford example also sound formal, like a news clip?





I guess there could have been, say, a fire in the building, but could she have been, say, laughed at by classmates and thus ran out of the place?


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## Chasint

_She burst into tears and fled_, sounds like a line from a romantic novel. It is written English - no-one would say it in conversation. It is also somewhat old-fashioned.

Note that examples in dictionaries are taken from texts, not from real-life conversations.


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## zaffy

Chasint said:


> _She burst into tears and fled_, sounds like a line from a romantic novel. It is written English - no-one would say it in conversation. It is also somewhat old-fashioned.


You see, that's why dictionaries introduce a lot of confusion sometimes. It'd be enough to add "litarary" in that dictionary entry and I would not be confused. Seeing that entry non-natives think it sounds like everyday language.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> You see, that's why dictionaries introduce a lot of confusion sometimes. It'd be enough to add "litarary" in that dictionary entry and I would not be confused. Seeing that entry non-natives think it sounds like everyday language.


The problem is that everyday language is very rarely captured in textual form. We chat away, and unless someone makes an audio recording and then transcribes the conversation and publishes it somewhere, dictionaries won't be able to quote it.

Maybe you should look for some conversational dictionaries, for instance a quick search throws up the following: Conversational-American-English

Another approach is to watch videos - preferably with subtitles - of people being interviewed in the street. Or of course you can watch soap operas and other fictional programmes.


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## Chasint

Chasint said:


> The problem is that everyday language is very rarely captured in textual form. We chat away, and unless someone makes an audio recording and then transcribes the conversation and publishes it somewhere, dictionaries won't be able to quote it.
> ...


As an example, I used written English above. In spoken English, I might have said:

_"The thing is, nobody records everyday English. We just chat away and nobody's going to record it and publish it. If it's not written down somewhere, dictionaries won't know about it."_


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## kentix

zaffy said:


> And how do I understand "escape" used as a key in a keyboard? It doesn't make much sense to me, to be honest. How do you sense it? What if someone came up with an idea of calling it 'flee'?


To flee is to move physically away from a perceived danger, not necessarily with a specific destination in mind. The overriding emphasis is "away" (as quickly as possible).

In the case of the Escape key that makes no sense. There is no danger and nothing is moving physically. Standard computer operations are linear. You take step A and it leads to condition B. Think of each condition as a box. Normally from there you would take step C and move to box D (or D2 or D3 or D4...). You proceed by moving forward. But if you find you don't want to be in box B and realize that was not the right step to take, you can escape that box, with the Escape key. It's basically the operational equivalent of the Backspace key when typing text. It takes a step backward in the operation, without leaving a trace you ever stepped forward into that box B.



Uncle Jack said:


> Did Charles Dickens write thrilling maritime stories about pirates?


Maybe it was Charles Dikkens.


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## Chasint

kentix said:


> To flee is to move physically away from a perceived danger, not necessarily with a specific destination in mind. The overriding emphasis is "away" (as quickly as possible).
> 
> In the case of the Escape key that makes no sense. There is no danger and nothing is moving physically. Standard computer operations are linear. You take step A and it leads to condition B. Think of each condition as a box. Normally from there you would take step C and move to box D (or D2 or D3 or D4...). You proceed by moving forward. But if you find you don't want to be in box B and realize that was not the right step to take, you can escape that box, with the Escape key. It's basically the operational equivalent of the Backspace key when typing text. It takes a step backward in the operation, without leaving a trace you ever stepped forward into that box B.


Great expectations explanations there kentix!



kentix said:


> Maybe it was Charles Dikkens.


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## zaffy

And do these work? This is what we could say figuratively in Polish. 

_Tom, I hate it when you run away from/escape from your responsibilites. Just try to act like a grown up._


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## kentix

- I hate it when you avoid your responsibilities.


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## zaffy

panjandrum said:


> you can escape from something without fleeing at all.


And how do I understand this? Can you explain it in more detail?


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And how do I understand this? Can you explain it in more detail?


John was accused of murder. He escaped a life sentence by pleading insanity.  (In other words, he never received a life sentence.)

John was accused of murder. He fled from the courtroom. (He ran)


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## zaffy

And does either work in this kind of figurative context? 

A: How’s Ashely?
B: I hear *she escaped* from John a week after they got married but have no idea why.
B: I hear *she ran away* from John a week after they got married but have no idea why.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And does either work in this kind of figurative context?
> 
> A: How’s Ashely?
> B: I hear *she escaped* from John a week after they got married but have no idea why.
> B: I hear *she ran away* from John a week after they got married but have no idea why.


I hear *she escaped* from John  (This implies that John was ill-treating her)

I hear *she ran away* from John (This says nothing about the reason unless we have further context. Maybe she stole all his gold and then ran away. Maybe she changed her mind about the wedding and ran away with her ex-boyfriend)

(Note spelling of Ashl*e*y)
__________________________________

A: How’s Ashley?
B: I hear *she escaped* from John a week after they got married. _ (if you use "escape" then you must have some idea why)_
A: Wow! What was he doing to her? Did he lock her up?

A: How’s Ashley?
B: I hear *she ran away* from John a week after they got married but have no idea why.
A: There must have been a reason. Do you really have no idea at all?
B: Well, it could be because ...


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## zaffy

Chasint said:


> I hear *she escaped* from John (This implies that John was ill-treating her)


Does 'escape' connotate with negative contexts only?



And when we're speaking of children fleeing their homes, does "escape" imply they were ill-treated, while with "run away" there might have been any reason, like the parents not accepting their boyfriend/girlfriend?

_1. I hear John's daughter escaped last night. 
2. I hear John's daughter ran away last night.   _


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> Does 'escape' connotate with negative contexts only?


Yes. I cannot think of an exception.


zaffy said:


> And when we're speaking of children fleeing their homes, does "escape" imply they were ill-treated, while with "run away" there might have been any reason, like the parents not accepting their boyfriend/girlfriend?
> 
> _I hear John's daughter escaped last night.
> I hear John's daughter ran away last night.   _


1. Ill-treated or, more likely, imprisoned.

2. Yes.

P.S. It will help if you number your sample sentences - that way we don't have to repeat them in the answer


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## zaffy

And on the news, we might hear this, right?

_Each year more and more adolescents flee their homes.  _


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## Roxxxannne

kentix said:


> - I hate it when you avoid your responsibilities.


or
I hate it when you duck your responsibilities.


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> And on the news, we might hear this, right?
> _Each year more and more adolescents flee their homes.  _


I would expect "Each year more and more teens run away from home."


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## zaffy

Roxxxannne said:


> I would expect "Each year more and more teens run away from home."


Does "flee" sound unnatural or do you simply prefer "run away"?


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## kentix

We don't know why they left. We can't say they are fleeing.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> And does this example work with "from"?
> 
> "When he heard the police were looking for him, he *fled from the state*."


 See
flee and flee from


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## zaffy

And coming back to this picture, which one do you prefer? 

_I saw some guy trying to escape from a police officer.
I saw some guy trying to run away from a police officer._


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## Roxxxannne

To me, he is actually running away, not trying to run away.
If I were simply describing the picture, I'd say _I saw some guy running away from a police officer.  _


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> And coming back to this picture, which one do you prefer?
> 
> _I saw some guy trying to escape from a police officer.
> I saw some guy trying to run away from a police officer._
> View attachment 71535


_I saw some guy trying to escape from a police officer._(This does not describe the picture accurately - If the police officer had already arrested him, then he might be struggling in order to escape)

*Trying to escape*




_I saw some guy trying to run away from a police officer.  _(He is not "trying" to run away. He "is" running away!)

*Running away*




(cross-posted with Roxxxannne - we agree)


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## zaffy

Don't you think "flee" or "run away" would sound better in this New York Times article rather than "escape"? After all, those Ukrainines weren't held hostage or imprisoned by anyone.


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> Don't you think "flee" or "run away" would sound better in this New York Times article rather than "escape"? After all, those Ukrainines weren't held hostage or imprisoned by anyone.
> 
> View attachment 71538


At this point, I am concerned that we may get into a repetitive loop. May I suggest that you review the thread so far and then give us reasons that you think they aren't escaping? 

P.S. I realise this is difficult if you do not have separate words for these concepts in your native language.


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## zaffy

Chasint said:


> May I suggest that you review the thread so far and then give us reasons that you think they aren't escaping?


I believe all these quotes say that you escape from imprisonment/confinement, which is not the case in the Ukrainians crisis. I guess they are fleeing from danger, aren't they?



deddish said:


> Escape involves getting away from some form of *captivity or imprisonment*





Roxxxannne said:


> 'escape' strongly implies to me that they were eventually able to *evade capture*.





kentix said:


> Escaping suggests you have previously been *under some kind of control*,





Uncle Jack said:


> Whenever* confinement or captivity is involved, use "escape*".


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## kentix

There are always subtle shades of meaning. You escape from confinement. You flee from danger. Are the Russians dangerous? Yes. So flee fits. Are they (or at least were they originally) trying to take control of all of Ukraine. Apparently. In that sense, Ukraine is a container they were trying to get full control of. So the people trying to get out of that container are attempting to escape. If the Russians had successfully taken control of Ukraine (or if they do in the future or if it's conceived as a real possibility), then to leave they will need to escape.


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## tracer2

Another example:

To escape his psychotic parents, he fled the state and eventually, the country.  But go where he might, he could never escape his inner turmoil.


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## zaffy

I made this up. Does it sound natural? Say I'm giving advice to someone who's planning to run away from home.

_Do you really think running away will help you escape from your current problems? _


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## Chasint

zaffy said:


> I made this up. Does it sound natural? Say I'm giving advice to someone who's planning to run away from home.
> 
> _Do you really think running away will help you escape from your current problems? _


 Sounds good to me!


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## tracer2

kentix said:


> There are always subtle shades of meaning. You escape from confinement. You flee from danger.


The startling and apparently endless contrasts and shades of meaning within the English verbal system - the ultimate source of the strength and surprising beauty of English - is exemplified by this* escape/flee *dichotomy.  

The fusion of the Germanic (flee) and the Romance (escape) leads to an exactness of thought and finesse that simply cannot be equaled, let alone surpassed, by any other language.


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## zaffy

And say someone's giving advice to a woman who's going to terminate her pregancy. Does either sound natural? 

_Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to escape the guilt.
Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to run away from the guilt._


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## elroy

kentix said:


> - I hate it when you avoid your responsibilities.





Roxxxannne said:


> or
> I hate it when you duck your responsibilities.


or (the very formal)
I hate it when you *shirk* your responsibilities. 



zaffy said:


> _Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to escape the guilt.
> Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to run away from the guilt._


I would say “get over” or “overcome.”


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## Chasint

tracer2 said:


> The startling and apparently endless contrasts and shades of meaning within the English verbal system - the ultimate source of the strength and surprising beauty of English - is exemplified by this* escape/flee *dichotomy.
> 
> The fusion of the Germanic (flee) and the Romance (escape) leads to an exactness of thought and finesse that simply cannot be equaled, let alone surpassed, by any other language.


Yes - There are many synonyms in English. One might wish to consider the shades of meaning amongst the following: dodge, elude, evade, abscond, bolt, bail out, cut and run, cut loose, fly the coop, make a getaway, run off, and many more.


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## zaffy

And say someone keeps moving their house and changing their job so as not to get recognised by anyone for some reason and I'd like to know why they're doing it . I guess I might say both of these, couldn't I?

Tom, what are you running away from?
Tom, what are you trying to escape from?


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## TheIntricateWillows

zaffy said:


> And say someone keeps moving their house and changing their job so as not to get recognised by anyone for some reason and I'd like to know why they're doing it . I guess I might say both of these, couldn't I?
> 
> Tom, what are you running away from?
> Tom, what are you trying to escape from?


Yes, both of those have the same meaning and can be used.


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> And say someone's giving advice to a woman who's going to terminate her pregancy. Does either sound natural?
> 
> _Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to escape the guilt.
> Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to run away from the guilt._


"Run away from" makes little sense in the context. I thought we had made it clear in this thread that "run away from" is an ongoing action. This is of little consequence when it comes to things like guilt. The important thing is to finally be free of it, and for this you need "escape". You can run away all you like, but if you cannot escape, the guilt will still haunt you.

Note that "trying to escape", unlike "escape" on its own, also indicates an ongoing action. While "escape" can, within a limited context, be ongoing, it isn't actually escaping unless the person is ultimately able to break free.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> "Run away from" makes little sense in the context. I thought we had made it clear in this thread that "run away from" is an ongoing action.



I was confused by #18 where it was said "run away" implies a success like "escape".


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> I was confused by #18 where it was said "run away" implies a success like "escape".


Ah. There is a difficulty when the thing you are running away from can run faster than you can. If this is the case, although you are running, you aren't actually running away, because the distance between you is getting less.


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## zaffy

Uncle Jack said:


> "run away from" is an ongoing action.  The important thing is to finally be free of it, and for this you need "escape"



So I believe this works, doesn't it? 

_I was running away from the guilt for a few years, but luckily I finally escaped it when Ashley forgave me. _


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## kentix

> zaffy said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to escape the guilt.
> Please, don't do it. You'll never be able to run away from the guilt._
> 
> 
> 
> I would say “get over” or “overcome.”
Click to expand...


You'll never be able to live with the guilt.


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> So I believe this works, doesn't it?
> 
> _I was running away from the guilt for a few years, but luckily I finally escaped it when Ashley forgave me. _


"Run away from" is really the wrong metaphor with guilt, since it is inside of a person (which is why you can never escape from it). "Hide from" might work as a metaphor, but "suppress" is better.

"Escape" doesn't really work either. You can talk about never escaping the guilt (although kentix' "live with" is probably more usual), but if you want to describe the opposite, you probably need something like "overcome".


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## zaffy

And speaking of the Ukrainians fleeing their homes, would "run away" make sense or does it not make sense as it implies no particular reason? 

_Currently lots of Ukrainians are running away to neigbouring Poland. _


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## Uncle Jack

"Run away" has negative associations, which "flee" does not, and this is probably the main reason why "flee" is used instead of "run away" in the context of Ukrainian people trying to escape the fighting.

Also, if you say "run away from X" (which I realise you do not in post #112, but I mention this in case it arises), then X is the thing that scares the person who is running away, the thing that they want to avoid or escape, and it would make little sense to say "running away from their homes", since their homes are not the reason for their running away. It would be fine (bar the negative associations) to say that people were running away from the fighting, or from the war zone, and your use of "to" rather than "from" would also be fine if "running away" could be used.


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## zaffy

I see there are so many nuances, that is, whether we mention "from what" or "from where" or don't mention any of those like in the first example. Do my choices work?   


1. Thousands of Ukrainans have _fled/escaped_ to neighbouring Poland.   

2. Thousands of Ukrainans have _escaped/ran away/fled_ from the the war zone to neighbouring Poland.

3. Thousands of Ukrainans have _fled _ their homes to neighbouring Poland.


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## Uncle Jack

(1) is fine.
With (2), "ran away" would be avoided because of its negative associations, but apart from that they are fine.
(3) is fine.

I have no idea whether "flee" is used more transitively ("fled their homes") or intransitively ("fled from their homes"). There is some discussion of this in post #51. I think Chasint is right that we flee from a person but we flee a place or situation. However, we are also used to "from" and "to" being used in pairs, so adding "*to* neighbouring Poland" makes "*from *the war zone" more likely.

I think that "escape" in (2) probably needs "from". They have escaped to Poland is the important message, rather than they have escaped the war zone, which I don't think would be said as a main clause. It is fine to add "from the war zone" to "they have escaped to Poland".


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## zaffy

And which verb would you use in conversational English? Say a husband is watching a docummentary showing refugees, including small children. His wife comes into the room, takes a look at those poor people and asks "What's going on?"
Which verb would the husband pick to describe the suituation? I know "flee" describes it best but it's not conversatinal English. Would he pick "escape"?

A: What's going on? Who are all these people?
B: Poor Ukrainians escaping to neigbouring Poland.


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## Uncle Jack

We are used to "flee" in this situation from news reports, so it may well be used in ordinary conversation. I think it depends on whether you want to focus more on where they are coming from or where they are going to. Fleeing their homes/the war zone or escaping to Poland.


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## zaffy

One more thing confuses me about "flee". I guess someone fleeing is trying to move away from danger and is the victim by nature, not a villain, compared to say a thief trying to "run away/escape". So why is "flee" used about all those villains in YT videos. For example here:


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## tracer2

To my way of thinking, "flee" can also be used when you want to give your writing a "slant" indicating "furtiveness" or  "surreptitious" action........something "escape" doesn't seem to have to the same degree.
Strangely, the past tense, "fled" loses this furtiveness...."they fled" doesn't sound as desperate as "they flee"...

It's in the phonetics, I suspect.  "fled" rhymes too nicely with the metal "lead"....heavy and slow to react, whereas "flee" rhymes nicely with "scream".


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## Uncle Jack

zaffy said:


> One more thing confuses me about "flee". I guess someone fleeing is trying to move away from danger and is the victim by nature, not a villain, compared to say a thief trying to "run away/escape". So why is "flee" used about all those villains in YT videos. For example here:
> 
> 
> View attachment 71562


Although "run away" might have negative overtones, this does not mean that "flee" has positive ones. A fugitive might flee from justice, for example, and the fact that he flees tends to make us think badly of him.

"Flee" might also sound more official. "Run away" is an expression learnt very early in life - children do a lot of running away from things - and some people might think it does not sound formal enough in more serious situations.


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## kentix

Uncle Jack said:


> "Flee" might also sound more official. "Run away" is an expression learnt very early in life - children do a lot of running away from things - and some people might think it does not sound formal enough in more serious situations.




Small children "run away from home" (then come back when they get hungry).

When a wanted criminal does the same thing it sounds a little too cute.

On the other hand, if you just use "run", that's often very literal.

"When they came to arrest him he ran from the police."

That means he started running to try to evade them. You'll also hear the phrase "he fled on foot".


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## zaffy

Say I'm taking about the robbery I experienced a few years ago. I know I would use the first version when talking to my friends. But if it was a news report about some robbery, could they use the second example? 

_By the time the security guards arrived, the robbers had run away.
By the time the security guards arrived, the robbers had fled._


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## kentix

Yes, the second would be suitable in journalism.

For the first, I think in the U.S. you're more likely to hear something like:

_By the time the security guards *got there*, the robbers had already *left/taken off*._


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## Pablo Peligroso

I pity the guy/lady that asked this question. I have no problem with any of your fine points, dear people. You know your English and can articulate it. In reality, though, this is overkill of a simple comparison. In practical English these two terms are virtually the same.  Yes, there are "matices" but come on, let's not bury practical English with mile deep fine points that leave people more confused than before.  

If you fled 1973 Chile, you also escaped. What's the difference when the ideas are so similar?


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## kentix

The difference is there's a difference in many cases. Telling someone that any time you see flee you can substitute escape or run away (and three-way vice versa) is terrible advice, because it's just not true.

I can't flee from my prison cell if the door is locked. I first have to escape from my cell and then I can flee from the prison. I can escape from handcuffs but I can't flee from handcuffs. And I can't run away from handcuffs. I can run away from home if I'm mad at my parents but I don't have to escape, because I'm not locked inside. And fleeing is not an apt word, because, first, there is probably no actual danger and second, it's probably not pursuing me, either actively or as a consequence of events. (You can flee a pursuer actively looking for you or you can flee a war zone and the war zone can expand and so come closer to you again and put you back in danger. Conversely, if you run away from home the home is not going to chase you or expand to come near you again.) Run away and flee are much closer in meaning and use than either is to escape. Flee doesn't include any sense of an outcome, nor does run away. Escape does. It indicates a change in condition - you were under control in some way and now you're not.

So, yes, saying escape and flee are related ideas is true. But that's uselessly vague information for writing meaningful, idiomatic, real-world sentences. The actual choice depends on context.


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