# guilt schmilt (Yiddish-English rhyming slang)



## Erika28

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Several threads on the same topic have been merged to create this thread
NOTE DE LA MODÉRATION : Nous avons fusionné plusieurs fils sur ce même sujet


hi everyone,

could any english-native speaker explain me the word "shmilt" in the expression "guilt shmilt"?

It seems to be a familiar locution, and I can see the effect of the rime in "ilt" but what does it mean!!?

thanks a lot,


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## Old Novice

A made-up rhyming word like this ("shmilt") is a way of emphatically rejecting the idea that the first word ("guilt") applies.


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## Erika28

Ok, Old Novice!! thank you for this explanation, I get it.

so, if I want to translate, I should find a word that rhymes with as well as opposes "guilt" in french, right?

But, by the way, "shmilt" does not mean anything in english? is it a kind of onomatopea?


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## pieanne

There are a few hundreds of hits for "shmilt" on google, many of them associated with "guilt". It must be a real word.

I'd be curious to know how a native would translate it?


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## Old Novice

Sorry, it's not a real word except in this type of phrase, to my knowledge.   You could also say "nice-shmice" meaning the person or thing was not really nice at all, for example.


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## pieanne

So it's not a real word (I understand what you're saying here)
I found this _"guilt *shmilt*. I am sick and tired of feeling guilty."_ on Google. How would you translate it? "A bas la culpabilité"?


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## Old Novice

pieanne said:


> So it's not a real word (I understand what you're saying here)
> I found this _"guilt *shmilt*. I am sick and tired of feeling guilty."_ on Google. How would you translate it? "A bas la culpabilité"?


 
I'm not sure of the translation.  The phrase is emphatic but informal.  The closest English would be "Nuts to guilt!  I'm sick and tired ...".  But I don't know how to render that in French, either.


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## Erika28

yes, Pieanne, I found that one too on Google. 
I think "à bas la culpabilité" is kind of the best way to say the idea in french!
unfortunately, we don't have the flexibility of english to make such pun like "nice-shimce"!
but again, thanks for your explanation Old Novice. It is much clearer now.


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## Erika28

if I follow what you say, Old Novice, we would rather translate "guilt shmilt" (and in the context found by Pieanne) by something like :
"et puis, zut, marre de culpabiliser!" ?


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## pieanne

Thank you for your valuable unput, Old Novice!  

Can "shm -ilt" be used with any word? Shouldn't there be a "  !  " after it?


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## Old Novice

pieanne said:


> Thank you for your valuable unput, Old Novice!
> 
> Can "shm -ilt" be used with any word? Shouldn't there be a " ! " after it?


 
In my experience, it is always emphatic, so the "!" would be appropriate.  The "shm-[last few letters]" does sound pretty general, as I think about it.  I can even imagine "smile-shmile!", for example, as a rejection of the idea that someone is smiling.  I can't think of an English word starting with "shm", so perhaps that's why it works.


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## Arrius

Nobody seems to have mentioned that this habit of repeating a word, with schm/shm (Yiddish spelling whether in Hebrew characters or Roman ones is unstable) replacing its first consonant, is from Yiddish, a language which, though moribund, still has a noticeable affect on urban American English and and the Cockney of the East End of London. For those unfamilar with it, Yiddish is basically a German dialect with much Hebrew in it that evolved in Poland. Israel used to broadcast some programmes in it but significantly seems to have abandoned the practice. The phomene sh/sch features prominently in Yiddish. The purpose of this device is to pour scorn upon what the interlocutor has just said


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## houei

That is the heading/slogan used by IKEA on their flyer advertising for a sale on carpet.

Carpet schmarpet
Hurry, 4 days only!

As one obsessed with languages, I have been scratching my head about ways to translate this play with words into French, how to use the same reference point on which "schm" is based on.  I mean, I have heard it, I have used it, but I don't know about its etymology.

Anyone?  Thanks!


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## Bob240964

Bonsoir, 

La répétition d'un mot avec le 'préfixe' SCHM est un import du yiddish dans l'anglais américain, avec une connotation moqueuse, portant à dérision. C'est typique de l'humour juif qui dédramatise ou essaye de faire rire de ce qui serait autrement un sujet sérieux ou en tout cas présenté comme tel :
- L'actrice Fran Drescher a fondé l'association 'Cancer Schmancer' qui apporte un soutien aux victimes de cette maladie.
- "- Les Schwartz ont une Cadillac. - Cadillac schmadillac, ce n'est qu'une voiture." 

Mais je serais bien incapable de trouver une version française, désolé.


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## wildan1

houei said:


> That is the heading/slogan used by IKEA on their flyer advertising for a sale on carpet.
> 
> Carpet schmarpet
> Hurry, 4 days only!
> 
> As one obsessed with languages, I have been scratching my head about ways to translate this play with words into French, how to use the same reference point on which "schm" is based on. I mean, I have heard it, I have used it, but I don't know about its etymology.


 
I love (and enjoy using) this Yiddish mocking rhyme, but quite honestly, I don't think the marketing folks at IKEA understand how it is used (were they Swedish?!)

_Carpet schmarpet_ doesn't really fit here as a way to get people to come to a sale at IKEA, unless there is more context that you have not provided, houei.

Example of a common usage of this:

Newlywed wife: _My husband's grandmother was so nice, she gave us a carpet for our wedding!_

Newlywed's skeptical Jewish mother: _Carpet schmarpet! That's just some cheap rag she picked up at IKEA, how could anybody call that a carpet!_

Désolé si je ne t'avance pas, mais je pense que ton client a mal compris la tournure en anglais...


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## houei

Oh Wildan1, you are hilarious!  I think IKEA was self-deprecating in using that rhyme.  No, I did not leave out any context.  I have the flyer in front of me and that's all it says.  What follows is "Tundra flooring 69 cents/sq. ft. was $1.29/sq. ft.
PS ce n'est pas pour un client, I was just wondering how one would intelligently translate such things if one had to.


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## wildan1

houei said:


> PS ce n'est pas pour un client, I was just wondering how one would intelligently translate such things if one had to.



OK, I'm glad you are off the hook!

You DO have context--IKEA is promoting flooring (cheap) rather than carpeting--much more expensive.

So it is appropriate; I take back my criticism of IKEA's marketers--they do get it.

(But glad I gave you and xtra a laugh on a Friday night! Joke-schmoke...)


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## houei

I get it! Flooring! I took it as carpeted flooring!  Don't mind me.  Don't know my prices in flooring!
OK, now that we have prepared the ground/floor for the next step: french equivalent, anybody!!!?????????  I know we can do it!


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## watergirl

To capture the sense of playful mockery,  how about a play-on-words with "moquette" and "Je m'en moque":

"Moquette? On s'en moque"

Or something along the lines of,  "Tapis? Tant pis..."      

Just to get the old ball rolling......


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## houei

Merci, Watergirl.  Cela m'a donné cette idée simple qui ne m'a pas coûté grand chose: "Moquette, schmoquette".  Après tout, si les américains sont au courant de la référence au yiddish (throat clearing) et l'utilisent à leur fin, peut-être que les français pourront aussi s'y mettre, pourquoi pas ? Seulement, la méthode de Watergirl marche avec tout, la mienne ne marcherait pas tellement avec "Tapis, schtapis", je trouve...  Quelqu'un d'autre ?


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## houei

I meant "Tapis, schmapis"


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## rolmich

OK, vous l'aurez voulu *houei :*
"n'ayez pas de shparti pris, venez chez nous voir nos schmoquettes".
David Ben-Gurion a été l'un des plus célèbres précurseur de cette répétition hilarante quand il disait de l'Organisation des Nations Unies dont les initiales se disent OUM (en alphabet hebraique) : "laissez-les parler : *OUM-SCHMOUM*"


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## houei

Merci, Rolmich.  Je n'étais pas au courant de "oum-schmoum" !


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## thbruxelles

"moquette, schmoquette"
J'ai bien peur que cela ne fasse pas référence au Yiddish mais au parler ch'ti (du Nord de la France), surtout après le succés du film 'Bienvenue chez le Ch'tis'.
On parle déjà de ch'tiramisu, le dessert italien italien adapté à la sauce ch'ti, c'est-à-dire confectionné avec des biscuits locaux (les speculoos).


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## houei

Très intéressant, thbruxelles !  It seems every country has their "special" people.  And that may be the way to go.  How would one apply the Ch'tis reference to say, Tapis?  Tapis, ch'tapis?  Although, are ch'tis people known for their sarcasm and would they appreciate us making things up with reference to them in a mocking way, I wonder.  I think the Yiddish are ok with that since they are the ones who started it...


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## thbruxelles

I don't think it would work well.

L'image des ch'tis est plutôt sympathique, populaire, des gens simples qui aiment faire la fête (i.e. boire et manger). Beaucoup de clichés comme 'il pleut toujours', 'il fait froid dans le Nord', 'les gens du Nord ont dans le coeur le soleil qu'ils n'ont pas à l'extérieur'. Il y a une connotation affective quelque part.


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## houei

Je suis d'accord avec vous thbruxelles.  Nous ne devrions pas gâter la bonne réputation de nos ch'tis.
Merci Roymail. But I think we need the "schm" thing... But it could just be me.


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## rolmich

Pour conclure, je tire mon chapeau à Bob240964 pour sa magnifique explication.
J'avais remarqué ce fil dès le début, et aussi pensé au même genre d'interprétation que lui, mais tout comme wildan1 je pensais qu'auto-dérision et publicité ne faisaient pas bon ménage. Ce en quoi je me suis shtrompé lourdement !


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## xtrasystole

Another fine example I just realized: _'*Planet Schmanet*'_, a song from the famous Rocky Horror Show _("You'd better wise up Janet Weiss")_. 

I've been a RHS fanatic for decades and I'd never understood that title until now! Thanks again to all


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## Bastoune

watergirl said:


> To capture the sense of playful mockery, how about a play-on-words with "moquette" and "Je m'en moque":
> 
> "Moquette? On s'en moque"


 
MDR! C'est EXACTEMENT ce que moi, j'allais proposer, ou bien, "on s'en tape du tapis!"


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## murf123

Arrius hit the nail onthe head. The "schm" prefix does come from Yiddish and, when added to whatever word precedes it, tends to diminish the meaning, as in belittling the former's idea. "Ah, guilt, schmilt...I don't care, lock him up.." would convey that the speaker doesn't really care if the accused is guilty or not. It's a yiddish way of saying: "yeh, big deal..." (I've seen bigger, whatever, I don't really care, etc..). It is used less and less these days, unless one is trying to affect, or lampoon, a Jewish cultural stereotype.


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## Keith Bradford

There are lots of threads on this site on the same phenomenon, but the sad fact is that you can't usefully search for them, because every case is different.  _Guilt, schmilt; happy, schmappy; holidays, schmolidays..._  Invent your own version.

The message is always _*"mon oeil"*_ or _*"mon cul".*_

My favourite is "_Oedipus, schmoedipus! What does it matter so long as he loves his mother!_"


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## Cath.S.

_Culpabilité, poil aux tétés ! _


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Salut,



Cath.S. said:


> _Culpabilité, poil aux tétés ! _


Normalement on a plus de poils au nez qu'aux tétés... Enfin, même un seul, faut voir ! 
How about: culpabilité, débilité ?


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## Cath.S.

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Salut,
> 
> 
> Normalement on a plus de poils au nez qu'aux tétés... Enfin, même un seul, faut voir !
> How about: culpabilité, débilité ?


Salut Karine,
avec_ tété _la rime est plus riche qu'avec _nez_, même si le pelage est moins fourni.


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## Nicomon

Je viens de découvrir ce fil...

C'est évidemment plus vulgaire que _poil aux tétés/débilité_, et ça ne rime pas, mais à l'écrit avouez que _*cul*pabilité mon _*cul *marche plutôt bien.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

xtrasystole said:


> I remember this _'carpet schmarpet'_.


Oui, moi aussi ! 
Et aussi : Twitter, shmitter... faith shmaith... rocky schmocky... et plein d'autres référencés dans ce fil de l'EO : roots schmoots! [prefix schm- / shm-] (dont « Oedipus Schmoedipus » )

Nico : ton cul me plaît bien, même s'il est un poil vulgaire, effectivement !


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## Nicomon

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Nico : ton cul me plaît bien, même s'il est un poil vulgaire, effectivement !


 Je n'aurais peut-être pas osé le suggérer, si Keith n'avait pas déjà mentionné _mon œil/mon cul_. 

Par exemple si c'était "self-pride shmide" ça pourrait donner... _orgueil mon œil_. 

Tu l'as même pas vu, mon cul


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## jeanne b

bonjour,

je recherche la signification de l'expression "criminal schriminal" je me doute qu'il s'agisse d'une expression car on trouve des occurences sur google, malheureusement aucune qui me permette d'en dégager un sens.

je l'ai rencontré dans le cadre d'un livre pour enfant: 
" -So why am I in here? asked the mouse
 - because you're a criminal. said the keeper
 -Criminal schriminal ! said Mouse jumping on the little table beside the cell door. "I'm not dangerous"....

merci de votre aide

jane


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## Weeble

C'est quelque chose de familier, on pourrait dire, "As if!" au lieu de cela ici.  Pour une traduction....euh, "Pas vraiment!" ou "Pas moi!" peut-être...?

Ou, "C'est absurde!" va bien....?


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## joaopaolo

If my friend said "He's a criminal."
I could answer ."Criminal, schriminal," meaning that I deny and make fun of the notion of criminal applied to that person.
You add "sh" to all kinds of words in the same way.


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## flyingcabbage

Oui, il ne signifie rien en particulière. Il veut dire que l'usage du mot criminal dans la première phrase n'importe pas.

Autre exemple:
"Would you like some sweets?"
"I can't, the dentist said I shouldn't eat sugar."
"Dentist schmentist! Have some!"

Il ridicule la notion du dentiste - le deuxieme explique que le dentiste lui a dit de ne pas manger du sucre, mais l'autre dit que l'opinion du dentiste n'a pas aucune importance.

Est-ce que cela vous aide un peu?


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## jeanne b

merci à tous pour vos réponses.


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## Phyrax

Bonjour,

Je me permet de rentrer dans la discussion...
Je pense que Houei à raison mais il n'applique pas correctement le concept yiddish.
Il faut prendre les quelques lettres restantes c'est ce qui est dit donc moquette = schmoquette oui, mais tapis = schmapis.
Ils faut rester un peut cohérent dans l'utilisation de notre langue.
Désolé si il y a des fautes d'orthographe et dites-moi ce que vous en pensé.


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