# Regional MSA differences/variations



## eskandar

Are there any salient differences in how fuS7a is written in different countries? I'm wondering if the influence of the local dialect (or other factors) leads Arab writers from different countries to make difference choices in style, syntax, or even vocabulary when writing in fuS7a. I'm not talking about cases where those writing in standard Arabic make use of colloquial Arabic for dialogue or something like that, but rather whether there are any regional patterns that influence the writing of 'pure' fuS7a.


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## tounsi51

Yes there are differences.

For example, writing parking or toilets in Arabic may be different.

toilet: some countries will use حمام others will use دور المياء or مرحاض

In Tunisia we use ديوانة for customs although all Arab countries use جمارك  while some countries use الدرك in Tunisia we use الحرص


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## apricots

You may find this an interesting read: http://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/57998 "Beyond Lexical Variation in Modern Standard Arabic."


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## elroy

The biggest difference is the use of different vocabulary words for the same thing, as in the examples given by tounsi51.  Other types of differences are less common (see this thread for an example).

Additionally, as far as I know (I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong), North Africa uses Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3,...) while Egypt and the rest of the Arab World use a different set of numerals (١، ٢، ٣، ...), and the names of the months also differ by region: in Egypt and all of North Africa except for Libya, the names are cognates of the English names; Libya has its own set of names; and the rest of the Arab World uses yet another set of names.


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## eskandar

Thank you everyone, these are all exactly the kinds of things I was wondering about (and more examples are welcome). Thanks especially to @apricots for the fascinating read.


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## cherine

eskandar said:


> more examples are welcome


Here's one.
Another one: the word دَوام used in several Arab countries for working hours is not used in Egypt, we have ساعات العمل or مواعيد العمل.


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## elroy

This is one of my favorite examples.


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## djara

There are a few examples related to grammar. The spelling of hamza is one. In Tunisia we spell مشؤوم with hamza on waw, whereas in many places I have seen مشئوم (which I was taught to be incorrect).
The plural for مدير is مديرون in Tunisia and مدراء in many other countries (maybe all other countries).
Lexical:
Rule in Morocco is مسطرة whereas most (all?) other countries use قاعدة.
In Tunisia we systematically say قائمة for list. Elsewhere, لائحة is also used.


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## elroy

I think another difference is in the words used for "driving."  In Palestine and Israel, it's سياقة, whereas I think in other countries قيادة is used (which can only be "leadership" in Palestine and Israel!). 

Also, "prime minister" is رئيس الوزراء in most countries whereas in North Africa it's الوزير الأول.

I've also seen مشكل used by Moroccans for "problem"; in Palestine and Israel, it's only مشكلة.

Djara, I believe مشئوم is only used in Egypt, but I could be wrong.  In Egypt, final ي's are also spelled without the two dots, whereas the two dots are used in all other countries I think.

As for your other examples, in Palestine and Israel we use مدراء، قاعدة، قائمة.  In Palestine and Israel مسطرة is a ruler (as in the instrument)!


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## tounsi51

In North Africa we use سياقة for driving.

In Tunisia at least, a ruler (instrument) is مسطرة 

Signature: Tunisia uses امضاء whereas elsewhere it's توقيع


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## elroy

We use إمضا in colloquial Palestinian Arabic but in our MSA it's توقيع.

I think Egyptians use طماطم for "tomatoes" and كمثرى for "pears"; we use بندورة and إجاص.


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## tounsi51

In colloquial we use the verb صحح  for "to sign"

I think that in the fruit and vegetable markets, Arab countries use colloquial more than MSA, but both are used.


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## elroy

tounsi51 said:


> I think that in the fruit and vegetable markets, Arab countries use colloquial more than MSA, but both are used.


 I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.   In Palestine and Israel, بندورة and إجاص are the words used in *MSA*.  بندورة happens to also be the word used in Palestinian Arabic, but "pears" in Palestinian Arabic is نجاص.


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## tounsi51

I wanted to point out that بندورة  is colloquial Levantine Arabic not MSA, which is طماطم


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## elroy

That's not true.  بندورة is used in MSA as well. 

معنى كلمة بندورة في معجم المعاني الجامع والمعجم الوسيط - معجم عربي عربي - صفحة 1


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## tounsi51

So do you think there are 2 words in MSA for tomato?


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## elroy

Three, in fact.   بندورة وطماطم وقوطة.  And there may be more.

This is very normal in MSA; isn't that the whole point of this thread?


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## tounsi51

Yes you're right but  I have impression that for fruits and vegetables people tend to use dialect as MSA and not MSA, like for month names

I find it weird that بندورة  is considered as MSA  but do you agree that this is not fus7a?

it's like "autostrad" in Levant and Egypt and it's even written in English in the boards


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## be.010

tounsi51 said:


> I wanted to point out that بندورة  is colloquial Levantine Arabic not MSA, which is طماطم


 LOL that's one of the "regional differences" in MSA! In Levantine بندورة is the word used in fuS7a. In fact the most shocking difference to me was the word دراق, as in Syria we call دراق what people elsewhere call خوخ, and we use خوخ for برقوق... all this in fuS7a.

I think the regional differences have always been there since the time Arabic was only spoken in Arabia. But to answer the original post, the threshold between fuS7a-MSA-colloquial is very controversial and blurry. While there are permanent differences, the more "verified" a text is, many differences will fade away.
E.g. When talking about news, it's very hard to spot a difference, if any. Also, people in Syria read some novels by an Algerian writer, and people really can't spot that the writer is Algerian despite the long distance - all people will tell you it's just fuS7a (my estimate is that the difference is too little to be noticed).

Personally, the most differences I've noticed so far are those of modern translated terms, foods, vegetables, and clothes.


EDIT: I just did a little survey around me and apparently not all people agree that بندورة is fuS7a and some would rather use طماطم then.


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## tounsi51

I had once discussion with a Moroccan friend about the months.

In Morocco they used roman-berber names. And he told me that he always thought that they are MSA since they have been taught these ones.


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## elroy

Here’s an interesting article on this topic:
https://mshakkal.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/Lexical-Variation-in-Modern-Standard-Ara.pdf


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## Hemza

A difference I came across between Maghrebi countries and Egypt: general prosecutor. In the Maghreb it is وكيل الدولة (جمهورية/مملكة. While it seems that in Egypt it is said النائب العام. I don't know for other countries though.


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