# طلاب / طلبة



## The_Wanderer

Hi all,

Searched the net, could not find a direct answer, so I came to the experts themselves:

What is the difference between طلاب and طلبة? I mean, I have a text about the education system in a certain Arabic village, and it says that there is an elementary school to which the طلاب go, and the طلبة go to another school, which is a high school. So this text clearly distinguishes between the two forms, but I wish to know if this is an established difference I should be aware of.

I saw that there are جمع القلة and جمع الكثرة in Arabic, but I couldn't find any reference that this is the case with طلاب and طلبة.

What do you propose?

Thanks in advance,

D.


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi the wanderer,

as far as I know the difference between طلبة and طلاب is that the first one is student (F) while the second one is students (M).
This site http://www.almaany.com/home.php?language=english is usefull to see the plurals and genders.

In terms of school (naming) maybe a native speaker can bring more clarifications.

Hope it helped.
Aurélien


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## AndyRoo

طلاب and طلبة are both plurals of طالب. I think طلاب is more common, but otherwise don't see a difference.

The Wanderer - can you give more context, e.g. a screenshot or photo of the passage?


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi Andy,
if both are plurals, what is the feminine? Because I thought  that طلبة was actually the feminine..

Thanks
Aurélien


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## AndyRoo

Hi Aurélien, the feminine is طالبة (a female student).


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## aurelien.demarest

I see..! Thanks!!!


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## Jack.D

AndyRoo said:


> طلاب and طلبة are both plurals of طالب. I think طلاب is more common, but otherwise don't see a difference.


Ya exactly.. طالبات is the plural form of طالبة (feminine)


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## إسكندراني

لا فرق يذكر - على الأقل في الاستخدام الدارج
Some words in Arabic have several plurals, just like that.


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## The_Wanderer

Thank you all for your replies and interest.

Since the discussion went a bit out of the way, I will provide as much context as I can:
The paragraph speaks of an elementary school (مدرسة أساسية). 
At some point its says: نطاق عمل المدرسة يضم طلاب التجمع نفسه، ويتوجه الطلبة الى مدرسة __________ والتي تعتبر المدرسة الوحيدة التي تضم المرحلة الثانوية

التجمع is the village where that elementary school is located, so I was wondering if there is a reason that the طلاب go to an elementary school and the طلبة go to high school.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again.


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## AndyRoo

It seems to start mid-sentence but I think the meaning is clear enough: The students go to elementary school X and then move on to secondary school Y.


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## The_Wanderer

Thanks!

This is not mid-sentence; This sentence comes right after a table that presents numbers of students in that elementary school - below the table there is an asterisk with that sentence. The first part speaks of the aforementioned elementary school and the second about the high school. Since the author used different forms, I was wondering if it means something, or is it only a way to "enrich" the wording...


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## AndyRoo

Thank you for the additional context - yes I think طلبة is used to enrich the wording, as you say.


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## akhooha

I think that, technically speaking, طلاب is considered جمع الكثرة (used for more than ten) , and that طلبة is considered جمع القلة (from three through ten).
However, I don't think that anyone these days pays any attention to these theoretical distinctions and, as others (إسكندراني and Andy Roo) have pointed out already, they are used interchangeably. (Your example shows طلبة being used for high school students, but I seriously doubt that the high school has only ten or fewer students).
I don't think the author was trying to make a distinction, but just used the two different forms for the sake of stylistic variety.


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## Arabic Guru

Hi
May I ask if there are females and males in that elementary school?


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## cherine

akhooha said:


> I don't think the author was trying to make a distinction, but just used the two different forms for the sake of stylistic variety.


Exactly. It's just a way to avoid repeating the same word twice in a row. But, as far as I know, no one makes a distinction between the two forms of plural.

And I don't think that the students gender makes a difference either.


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## Arabic Guru

Usually, when you say طلبة you are referring just to males, and when you say طلّاب that could be males & females.



> وبالتالي فإن كلمة (طَلَبـَـة) جمع خاص بالذكور، ولا يسوغ استخدامه للدلالة على جمع الإناث





> ولعل استخدام كلمة (طلّاب) للدلالة على الذكور والإناث أدقّ وأسلم من الناحية اللغوية


Link


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## cherine

To continue your incomplete quote: 
وبالتالي فإن كلمة (طَلَبـَـة) جمع خاص بالذكور، ولا يسوغ استخدامه للدلالة على جمع الإناث؛ إلا أن يكون ذلك من باب التغليب فقط، فتستخدم ويقصد بها (الطلاب والطالبات) لا على أنها في أصلها اللغوي تدل على ذلك المعنى، وإنما من باب تغليب المذكر عند اجتماعه مع المؤنث في سياق واحد، وهذا شائع في الاستخدام الفصيح، كاستخدام لفظ (المؤمنين) في سياق الجمع من الذكور والإناث

In other words, it is not wrong to use طلبة as a plural when there are female students in the mix. And, more important if I may say, the actual usage of most -if not all- Arabic native speakers doesn't make a difference between the 2 plurals


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## SolarGirl90

They mean the same thing. Both are the plural form of طالب. I can't think of subtle differences either. No need to split hairs.


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## The_Wanderer

Thank you all for your willingness to help!

To Arabic Guru - The text doesn't indicate the gender of the students in the school, so I have to assume that it is mixed or otherwise non-relevant. Your link is very interesting, however. Do you think that this usage can appear in a text of average level of writing (i.e. not one that is supposed to be academic and precise in that aspect)? The entire text is concerned with the village, not with the school, so the school doesn't get much attention, and the students' composition doesn't seem to be all that important.

At any rate, surely you can see why I asked this question in the first place. This differentiation is perplexing!


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## SolarGirl90

The_Wanderer said:


> Do you think that this usage can appear in a text of average level of writing (i.e. not one that is supposed to be academic and precise in that aspect)?


http://i.imgur.com/E5YN2jB.jpg


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## The_Wanderer

Very interesting, I wasn't aware of that option. Thanks!


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## SolarGirl90

You're welcome


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## Ah Kwan

Hi, guys. I wonder if there are regional differences (at least in frequency) between these two words.

I have searched the two phrases "الطلاب والطالبات" and "الطلبة والطالبات" with quotation marks according to the 22 Arab countries. (Google - advanced search - narrow my results by region) It seems that in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, and Palestine the former appears much more frequently than in the other countries.
So I wonder if we can say that in some countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia) people *tend to* use الطلاب to express the meaning of male students exclusively while in the others (e.g. Egypt) people use it the same as الطلبة which covers both male and female.

Here is the Google search result:

"الطلاب والطالبات"
_السعودية    593,000
اليمن    138,000_
عُمان    34,800
الإمارات    36,800
قطر    25,400
البحرين    12,400
_الكويت    122,000_
العراق    24,700
الأردن    43,700
_فلسطين    110,000_
سوريا    20,800
لبنان    12,900
مصر    64,500
السودان    40,800
ليبيا    9,390
تونس    1,620
الجزائر    15,500
المغرب    12,700
موريتانيا    483
الصومال    115
جيبوتي    9
القمر    5

"الطلبة والطالبات"
السعودية    74,000
اليمن    17,600
عُمان    43,400
الإمارات    37,800
قطر    9,610
البحرين    44,300
الكويت    67,000
العراق    19,400
الأردن    10,400
فلسطين    45,900
سوريا    1,570
لبنان    1,410
مصر    49,100
السودان    17,300
ليبيا    10,100
تونس    2,370
الجزائر    18,000
المغرب    28,800
موريتانيا    102
الصومال    31
جيبوتي    7
القمر    3

However, it could be bugs in Google, because the number of "الطلاب والطالبات" results by any region is 540,000 while "الطلبة والطالبات" is 567,000, and the former could be different if you use Google of another country.


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## elroy

The_Wanderer said:


> This differentiation is perplexing!


 There is nothing to be perplexed about.  The two are 100% interchangeable, and simply mean “students.”  In Palestine, both are common.


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