# dare del lei e dare del tu in inglese



## domedis

*S*alve e scusate se sono sempre così ignorante.
*C*ome si stabilisce se due persone che parlano in lingua inglese si danno del tu oppure del voi? faccio questa domanda perchè non so neanche se esistono nella lingua inglese. per piacere delucidatemi.
*G*razie!


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## effeundici

Mi risulta che la distinzione esistesse in passato ma ormai sia del tutto persa


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## MStraf

Si puo' distinguire solo se si chiamano tra loro usando il nome o il cognome.

La maniera "rispettosa" di interpellare una persona e' di usare il titolo (Mr/Mrs/Miss/Doctor etc) seguito dal cognome ("Good morning Doctor Smith, how are you")
La maniera "amichevole" e' di usare il nome ("Hi Joe, how you doing")

Come in Italia si dice "posso darti del tu" in inglese si dice "can I call you Marco/Joe?" oppure "please call me Marco/Joe"


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## federicoft

MStraf said:


> Si puo' distinguire solo se si chiamano tra loro usando il nome o il cognome.
> 
> La maniera "rispettosa" di interpellare una persona e' di usare il titolo (Mr/Mrs/Miss/Doctor etc) seguito dal cognome ("Good morning Doctor Smith, how are you")
> La maniera "amichevole" e' di usare il nome ("Hi Joe, how you doing")
> 
> Come in Italia si dice "posso darti del tu" in inglese si dice "can I call you Marco/Joe?" oppure "please call me Marco/Joe"



In realtà se ci si pensa in italiano in tutta una serie di rapporti si usa il lei con persone che si chiamano per nome; così come il tu con persone che si chiamano per cognome.

Penso che la risposta più semplice da dare sia che no, in inglese semplicemente non esiste tale distinzione.


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## Odysseus54

Non si stabilisce perche' non si usano ne' tu ne lei, ma 'you', sempre la seconda persona singolare.

Se invece vuoi stabilire il grado di familiarita', quello si stabilisce a) dall'uso di termini tipo 'sir', 'mister president', 'doctor', 'officer'  b) dall'uso di Mr xxx invece del nome proprio ( occhio pero' che quando senti due che si stanno chiamando per nome non e' detto che siano in termini di amicizia stretta )  c) dal tono generale della conversazione , piu' o meno casuale.

Un'altra cosa e' che , perlomeno qui in America, la gente modula il grado di familiarita' con la stessa persona, introducendo per esempio un 'sir', per poi passare al nome proprio, per poi ritornare al 'sir', a seconda del contesto, magari nel giro di dieci minuti.

Anche in Italia, d'altra parte, si puo' essere molto formali col tu e molto informali con il lei, no ?



MStraf said:


> Si puo' distinguire solo se si chiamano tra loro usando il nome o il cognome.
> 
> La maniera "rispettosa" di interpellare una persona e' di usare il titolo (Mr/Mrs/Miss/Doctor etc) seguito dal cognome ("Good morning Doctor Smith, how are you")
> La maniera "amichevole" e' di usare il nome ("Hi Joe, how you doing")
> 
> Come in Italia si dice "posso darti del tu" in inglese si dice "can I call you Marco/Joe?" oppure "please call me Marco/Joe"




It seems to me , though, that being on first name terms does not necessarily mean having the same degree of familiarity as the 'tu' in Italian , or am I wrong ?

I am in first name terms , in business, with people vastly more rich and famous than yours truly, and I don't think for a second that my calling them Chuck or Abe makes them any closer to me than if I was addressing them as 'lei' or 'Sua Eccellenza'.

I must say that in Italy now things are a lot different than they were 20 years ago - going from "lei" to "tu" was a decision and it meant something.  Now they just go for the "tu".  So, perhaps, it's not that different after all.


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## effeundici

I've just checked that in old English it was like this:

_Ye : Voi_
_Thou : Tu_
_You : Lei_

Do you confirm?


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## Alxmrphi

effeundici said:


> I've just checked that in old English it was like this:
> 
> _Ye : Voi_
> _Thou : Tu_
> _You : Lei_
> 
> Do you confirm?



Maybe middle English, I don't think Old English would have been that similar to today's English but I'll double check.


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## effeundici

Alex_Murphy said:


> Maybe middle English, I don't think Old English would have been that similar to today's English but I'll double check.


 
Oh, I used _old _without even knowing there was a _middle _English.

I simply meant _English of the past_


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## Alxmrphi

Oh right, then yes, you're correct

There are different stages of English...

*Old English*:Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum; Si þin nama gehalgod to becume þin rice gewurþe ðin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice

*Middle English:*Oure fadir that art in heuenes, halewid be thi name; thi kyndoom come to; be thi wille don in erthe as in heuene: gyue to us this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce; and forgyue to us oure dettis, as we forgyuen to oure gettouris; and lede us not in to temptacioun, but delyuere us fro yuel.

*Early Modern English*:Our Father which art in heauen, hallowed be thy Name.Thy kingdome come. Thy will be done euen in earth, as it is in heauen.Giue vs this day our daily bread.And forgiue vs our debts, as we also forgiue our debters.And lead vs not into tentation, but deliuer vs from euill: for thine is the kingdome, and the power, and the glory for euer. Amen.

*Late Modern English*:Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.

Just so you can see how different "Old" English is from the later versions, so like I said before, what you posted as older formality existed in the earlier versions, but not old enough to be 'Old English'..


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## brian

effeundici said:


> I've just checked that in old English it was like this:
> 
> _Ye : Voi_
> _Thou : Tu_
> _You : Lei_
> 
> Do you confirm?



Actually, my understanding is this:

*Old English* distinguished singular and plural, but *not* formal and informal.Singular: _þu,_[θuː] (nominative); _þe_ (accusative/dative); _þin_ (genitive)
Plural: _ge_ ([jeː]), _eow_, _eower_​Starting in *Middle English* and continuing into *Early Modern English*, the plural _ge_, which became _ye_, began to be used with people of equal rank or higher, while the singular _þu/__þe/__þin_, which became _thou/thee/thy (thine)_, was used with people of lower rank *or* with familiar/intimate friends. This is basically exactly like _tu_ and _vous_ (which is also both plural and formal singular) in French, which was probably the catalyst for birth of the phenomenon in English.

Eventually *(Late) Modern/Present-day English *dropped _thou_ altogether in favor of _ye_, which had became _you_, and which now must do double duty for both singular and plural; and as a result, we no longer distinguish between formal and informal with our pronouns.


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## MStraf

Odysseus54 said:


> It seems to me , though, that being on first name terms does not necessarily mean having the same degree of familiarity as the 'tu' in Italian , or am I wrong ?


You are quite right, but isn't the same in Italy, where the "tu" can be used with different degrees of familiarity.


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## Alxmrphi

brian8733 said:


> Actually, my understanding is this:
> 
> *Old English* distinguished singular and plural, but *not* formal and informal.



Yep, same in Old Norse, Old English's brother. The formality (in English only) didn't come in until much later on.



> This is basically exactly like _tu_ and _vous_ (which is also both plural and formal singular) in French, which was probably the catalyst for birth of the phenomenon in English.


This is like what Italian was like in the 19th century wasn't it? The 'voi' (vous) form used as a singular formal address, then got outdated, but it's still underway in French?
(Let me know if I'm wrong on that last point, I'm not sure)


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## Tiogue

I think for an American the distinction has a lot to do with the situation.  In any sort of family situation today (e.g., meeting the parents, siblings, etc. of a friend or a fiance) you would immediately be on a first-name basis and they would expect of you, an Italian, to use "tu" (if you were speaking Italian).  The same would hold true with school friends or any other informal social situations.

But in almost all business situations, even if first names were being used, the tone would be more formal and distant, and I believe in Italian one would continue to  use "lei" unless things definitely started to warm up (e.g., the business contact took you out for a drink, or to an office party, or  to meet his family).


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## federicoft

Meeting (well, at least for the first time) your girlfriend's parents is the kind of situation I would expect being on first name terms _and_ using the formal "lei". It's likely you will quickly switch to "tu", but this could take some time, or never happen at all.

Likewise, it's not uncommon to call schoolfellows by surname, of course using the informal "tu".

So I don't really know... I think in English there's just no equivalent of the tu/lei relationship.


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## Tiogue

Odysseus54 said:


> Yes it is, and now more than 20 years ago, in that it has become a lot more common ( I think the TV again ) to switch to "tu" early on in a relationship.
> 
> A few years ago switching to "tu" signified that a certain level of comfort and mutual trust had been achieved  ( I am talking now of adult/adult relationships ) , now I believe most of the significance has been lost.  We have simply learned to talk like extras in some soap opera.



This is so true. One situation in America where this kind of change is particularly disturbing is in hospitals, where all patients, including the elderly, are addressed by their first name by doctors, nurses, and aides, and it seems so condescending and disrespectful to me when these  people were accustomed all their lives to being called "Mr." or "Mrs." by strangers.


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## brian

I would have never thought people (especially the elderly) would be called by their first names in hospitals. That is a bit disturbing.

However, if you want to get a good idea of how people interact in varying degrees of formality in English, just watch any sitcom dealing with police, lawyers, or doctors.

You'll notice that even though they are all friends on the show and have been working together for years, they still call each other _Dr. A, Detective B, District Attorney C_ or _Ms. C_, etc. and not by their first names. This is similar to using _Lei_ with a coworker who you've been working with for years.

Every now and then, for example if something dramatic happens in the show that--just for a moment!--brings two characters a little closer together, they might call each other on a first name basis.

For example, the captain of the police force always calls a female detective _Detective Smith_ (just an example). However, in the middle of the episode he sees that she is having some issues dealing with her case/her family/etc. and for a moment calls her by her first name, just for that one conversation, to comfort her and make her feel better. Then afterwards he returns to calling her _Detective Smith_.

A similar thing happens in Italian. I've seen situations where _Lei_ is used, but occasionally you switch to _tu_ just for a moment, and then back to _Lei_. A friend of mine once had her purse stolen, so we went to the police. The policeman taking the report called her _Lei_ for about 30 minutes, then at one point she started crying, so he switched to _tu_ to console her, then once she regained her senses, he switched back to _Lei_.


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## Alxmrphi

I agree Brian, I don't think it's always about personal relationships but the context, if it's in a professional setting, the formalities usually will stay, though I wouldn't expect first-name-basis in a hospital setting..

Well, I've been in hospitals a lot, and after a few days the nurses/doctors will come in and use the first name, in a friendly kind of way, but if they're leading around some trainee doctors I'd expect the formality (professional setting/context) of "Mr/Mrs.."

Also it depends on if you're talking to or about the person, talking to collegues, I would talk about someone (first name basis) but if to an outsider, and I was maintaining a professional setting, I would refer to the person being talked about more formally.

(did she get her purse back, brian?)


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## MStraf

Tiogue said:


> This is so true. One situation in America where this kind of change is particularly disturbing is in hospitals, where all patients, including the elderly, are addressed by their first name by doctors, nurses, and aides, ....



Really, which hospital are you talking about?

When I go to see my doctor the nurses call me by my first name and that is OK to me (as long as there is reciprocal respect) but during a long stay at the Alta Bates in Berkeley I have been always addressed as Mr.LastName, no matter how many times I told them "call me Joe"

What does really annoys me is the use of the first name in fancy restaurants. At a diner, I would be offended if they won't call me "my dear"  but when I go at a jacket and tie place, I require the use of the Mr and Mrs, no "dudes", "folks" or "guys" please...


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## Phil9

I think equivalent Old/middle/ modern English terms are not relevant now. *Now *there is only 'you'. There are different ways of addressing people by using first names or surnames but there is only 'you'.


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## paperino00

Phil9 said:


> I think equivalent Old/middle/ modern English terms are not relevant now. *Now *there is only 'you'. There are different ways of addressing people by using first names or surnames but there is only 'you'.


Che confusione! 
Riassumendo,
per dire "Dammi del tu" si deve dire per forza "Call me [nome]" o si può dire in qualche altro modo?
Se ho capito bene, per rispetto di una persona di usa "Mr. o Mrs." e che si usa comunque " you "

GIUSTO?

Grazie


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## Phil9

paperino00 said:


> Che confusione!
> Riassumendo,
> per dire "Dammi del tu" si deve dire per forza "Call me [nome]"  (in quanto e' l'equivalente di dire 'dammi del tu) o si può dire in qualche altro modo?
> Se ho capito bene, per rispetto di una persona di usa "Mr. o Mrs." e che si usa comunque " you "  (perche' non c'e' altra parola per rivolgersi ad una persona. C'e' solo 'you'.
> 
> GIUSTO?
> 
> Grazie


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## brian

Diciamo che in _certi_ contesti, tipo per tradurre il dialogo di un film o libro (sopratutto dall'italiano in inglese, visto che in inglese si può sempre aggiungere un bel "Sir/Mrs."), la teoria del tuo professore va benissimo. Per esempio:

A: _Come posso aiutarLa(, Signore/Signora)? -- How may I help you, *Sir/Ma'am*_* _(_oppure _Mrs. / Miss)?_
B: _Per favore, dammi del tu! -- Please, call me John/Mary/etc._

*Lo stesso vale per _Mr. Smith, Mrs. Smith,_ etc.

Allora funziona abbastanza bene per rendere l'idea che B vuole che il rapporto sia più intimo / informale, che ci sia più confidenza; però in fondo non è la stessa cosa, sia chiaro! - perché l'inglese non ha più questo fenomeno del _tu_/_lei_!


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## paperino00

brian said:


> Diciamo che in _certi_ contesti, tipo per tradurre il dialogo di un film o libro (sopratutto dall'italiano in inglese, visto che in inglese si può sempre aggiungere un bel "Sir/Mrs."), la teoria del tuo professore va benissimo. Per esempio:
> 
> A: _Come posso aiutarLa(, Signore/Signora)? -- How may I help you, *Sir/Ma'am*_* _(_oppure _Mrs. / Miss)?_
> B: _Per favore, dammi del tu! -- Please, call me John/Mary/etc._
> 
> *Lo stesso vale per _Mr. Smith, Mrs. Smith,_ etc.
> 
> Allora funziona abbastanza bene per rendere l'idea che B vuole che il rapporto sia più intimo / informale, che ci sia più confidenza; però in fondo non è la stessa cosa, sia chiaro! - perché l'inglese non ha più questo fenomeno del _tu_/_lei_!


Quindi proprio non esistono altri modi per dirlo?


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## federicoft

paperino00 said:


> Che confusione!
> Riassumendo,
> per dire "Dammi del tu" si deve dire per forza "Call me [nome]" o si può dire in qualche altro modo?
> Se ho capito bene, per rispetto di una persona di usa "Mr. o Mrs." e che si usa comunque " you "
> 
> GIUSTO?
> 
> Grazie



Posso chiedere perché hai la necessità di tradurre "dare del tu" in inglese? In inglese non esiste la distinzione tra tu e lei, quindi la domanda in sé non ha senso.

Se si deve tradurre qualcosa e non si hanno altre scelte, sono d'accordo con Brian nel ritenere il "call me [nome]" la soluzione migliore. 

Ma da un punto di vista pragmatico ribadisco le perplessità di prima: il darsi del tu o del lei è una cosa che sta su un piano diverso dal chiamarsi per nome o per cognome. In italiano esistono entrambe le cose (si può benissimo dare del lei ad una persona che si chiama per nome e viceversa), in inglese no.


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## rubuk

Ciao Paperino00. Mettiamola così, in Italia abbiamo delle sfumature che nell'inglese non si possono rendere. In inglese essendoci solo la possibilità di rivolgersi con You, per noi italiani rimane un problema. Bisogna adattarsi e partire sempre nel rapporto con l'estraneo usando "Sir, Mr. o Ms, Mrs., doctor, captain, sergeant, etc." e insistendo con il titolo, anche se la persona ci chiede di usare il nome proprio. Solo dopo ripetute richieste di passare al nome ci si può permettere di usarlo, facendo un primo passo e stabilendo così un maggiore grado di confidenza (meno formale). Attenzione però a non esagerare, bisogna comunque sempre controllare le proprie espressioni, evitando di usare i termini come pal, guy, dude e simili, che sono in uso solo fra persone da molto tempo in relazione informale e realmente in confidenza fra loro. 

Stef.


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## Caroline35

Ciao a tutti voi.Penso che l'unico modo di dare del lei,sia di usare : Mr/Mrs/Missis/Ms


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Ciao, Caro.

Sono d'accordo con quello che dici nel tuo ultimo post, ma credo che il problema non riguardi le diverse "forms of address" quanto piuttosto il modo per dire "dare del Lei"

Caramente.

GS
PS Scusa, "Missis" a quale sesso/stato civile si riferisce? A me sembra la pronuncia di "Mrs". Esiste "Misses ...  ", per dire "Le signorine ...".


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## joanvillafane

Correct, Giorgio.   
Caro, I think you meant: Mr/Mrs/*Miss*/Ms

for others who may want to know:
pronunciation of Mrs. - sounds like "misses"
pronunciation of Ms - rhymes with "his" - final sound is /z/


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## Green Day

Good evening guys, e scusate se rispolvero un vecchio thread!

Sto traducendo, come alcuni di voi già sanno benissimo, un film in  lingua originale. E proprio ora mi era sorto un dubbio, tra due  dottori che stanno esaminando i pazienti di un ospedale psichiatrico c'è  quello (un dottore) che ci lavora proprio e l'altra (una dottoressa) a  cui lui quindi illustra i vari pazienti. Ora però sono arrivato ad una  frase in cui il dottore, dopo averle illustrato la situazione, esclama: "_No offense, Doctor_._ But these_ (si riferisce in particolare a tre pazienti deformi) _are beyond your kind of therapy._", che io tradurrei con "_Senza offesa, dottoressa. Ma loro vanno al di là del suo tipo di terapia._".

Quel _dottoressa_ a questo punto significa che il dottore sta dando alla dottoressa del *Lei*, giusto? E non del *tu*. Pertanto le frasi che mi avevate aiutato a tradurre precedentemente, ossia...

1)_ They can and will grab you from their cells_ -> _(Essi) possono e ti afferreranno dalle loro celle_ *diverrebbe* _(Essi) possono e l'afferreranno dalle loro_ _celle_.
2) _Are you okay?_ chiede il dottore, e lei risponde: _Yeah. That just surprised me. That's all_ -> _Stai bene? etc. etc. _*diverrebbe* _Sta bene_? _etc. etc._

Giusto? O ho saltato qualcosa?


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## rrose17

Green Day said:


> Quel _dottoressa_ a questo punto significa che il dottore sta dando alla dottoressa del *Lei*, giusto?


Direi di sì. 
His calling her Doctor keeps it formal.


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## luway

brian said:


> ...
> A: _Come posso aiutarLa(, Signore/Signora)? -- How may I help you, *Sir/Ma'am*_* _(_oppure _Mrs. / Miss)?_
> B: _Per favore, dammi del tu! -- Please, call me John/Mary/etc._



Curiosità relativa al tema del thread in generale (non all'intervento odierno di GD):

...Si sente ancora usare la seguente battuta?

A: _(A si rivolge a B in tono formale, come stesse usando il Lei in italiano) -- (..........whatever.........., Mr. Ferrison__)_
B: _Per favore, dammi del tu! -- *Oh please, call me John. Mr. Ferrison is my father!*_

 

ps: e, anche se fosse (o perfino, fosse stata) infrequente, è mai esistito un analogo modo scherzoso di fare il passaggio di registro in "versione femminile"?


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## GavinW

Actually I've never heard the Ferrison joke in my life, nor any other similar to it. Maybe I haven't lived... or else maybe the joke has indeed become old-fashioned (I'm assuming you came across it some time ago).


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## luway

GavinW said:


> Actually I've never heard the Ferrison joke in my life, nor any other similar to it. Maybe I haven't lived... or else maybe the joke has indeed become old-fashioned (I'm assuming you came across it some time ago).



Heard from an English teacher (American), but you can find mention of it also on the internet (I just invented Mr. Ferrison; when it's referred to it in a general way you'll find "Mr. Smith", but that teacher had told us it was not unusual... -- he might be 60-65 by now)


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## rrose17

Yes I've heard the _Mr. Rose, no that's my father's name_. And yes, it sounds old fashioned but still used and I think these days it would probably be always said a bit ironically.


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## luway

rrose17 said:


> Yes I've heard the _Mr. Rose, no that's my father's name_. And yes, it sounds old fashioned but still used and I think these days it would probably be always said a bit ironically.



Thank you


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## Caroline35

Scusami Giorgio,
ma mi sono sbagliata a scrivere.Mr ( Signore) Mrs ( Signora) Miss( Signorina) e Ms( per una di cui non si conosce lo stato di famiglia.)

Have a nice day, my friend.Caro


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## jinmali

Salve a tutti,

ho visto piu' volte quando si sta dando del lei in lettere formali usare "You" con la lettera maiuscola. Sto traducendo una lettera commerciale e mi piacerebbe sapere se l'uso della lettera maiuscola e' corretto o no. 

Per esempio:

We request You to supply ...

The invoices issued by You...

Grazie


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## AshleySarah

Non è corretto usare la lettera maiuscola.  
"We request *that* you supply......." va bene.

"The invoices issued by you........" va bene.

Se volessi dire "You will notice that.........." dove "you" comincia la frase, poi devi usare la lettera maiuscola.


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## curiosone

Getting back to the concept (and use) of "you" in English, I think it should be specified (once again) that "you" corresponds to the more formal "vous" (or "Voi").  There is no equivalent (neither in English nor in French) of the "Lei" form.  And (in modern English) the "thou"/"thee" form has become obsolete (used  by Quakers longer than other English speakers, as the familiar "tu" form).

So actually there is no concept (in English) of "dare del tu."  "You" is less formal than "Lei," but it is not as familiar as the "tu" form (at least in traditional Italian usage - as I learned to use it).

Familiarity and informality (as has already been expressed in previous postings) derives, not from the "you," but from gestures, expression, and other non-verbal means - as well as addressing someone as "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" or "Sir/Ma'am" or "Doctor."  Even the "Call me John" concept (while perhaps the only way to attempt to translate "dammi del tu" or "chiamami Giovanni") can be misleading, to non-native speakers.  I have met sharks from Wall Street (and the Chicago Board of Trade) who said "Call me John," but (at least in the States) the "informality" was merely superficial, and I would never have dreamt of giving "John" a "pacca sulle spalle" or of touching him at all (except for a ritual handshake).


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## rrose17

AshleySarah said:


> "We request you to supply......." va bene.


 Hi, sorry but this isn't really right, is it? I mean not the You /you part but the "We _request you to _do something...". It's like the very Italian "we _suggest you to_ do something". It should be "we request (that) you do something" although more natural to me is "Please supply us with..." "Would you kindly supply us with..." etc. But this is definitely O/T.


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## AshleySarah

rrose, you're absolutely right.  I was paying attention to the "maiuscola" issue rather than the grammar and I missed it.   Of course, it should be "We request that you..................whatever", or "Would you kindly ...................................".  
I'll edit my post.


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## King Crimson

Hope the mods will put up with me but I've got a query on the ..._we request you to do_... issue raised by rrose. I thought it was correct to use this type of construction (see an example sentence on the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary), so I guess I must be missing something...


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## Paulfromitaly

King Crimson said:


> Hope the mods will put up with me but I've got a query on the ..._we request you to do_... issue raised by rrose. I thought it was correct to use this type of construction (see an example sentence on the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary), so I guess I must be missing something...



La pagina che citi (anche se il link non funziona..) conferma  quello che è stato spiegato



> *request somebody to do something*_ We were requested to assemble in the lobby._
> _You are requested not to smoke in the restaurant._
> *request that…*
> _She requested that no one be told of her decision until the next meeting_.


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## AlabamaBoy

It is odd that both examples are given in passive voice, which sounds much better to my ear than the active voice:

_We were requested to assemble in the lobby._They requested us to assemble in the lobby.
_You are requested not to smoke in the restaurant._We request you not to smoke in the restaurant.

I am not saying the active voice is necessarily incorrect, but it does not sound very natural to me. However, I am less decided about the imperative form:

Request them to assemble in the lobby.
Request everyone not to smoke in the restaurant.


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## King Crimson

Paulfromitaly said:


> La pagina che citi (anche se il link non funziona..) conferma quello che è stato spiegato



Anch'io sapevo che entrambe le forme potevano essere usate, ma la mia perplessità nasce dal fatto che, dal post di rrose, capisco che la forma "I/we request you to do..." non è corretta, infatti suggerisce:



> It should be "we request (that) you do something"



Cioè solo l'altra forma che indichi anche tu; a questo punto aspettiamo un chiarimento da rrose (o Sarah).


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## AshleySarah

I shall defer to rrose on this matter.  I must say that the other construction didn't jump out at me as being actually *incorrect* when I was answering the query about the need for a capital letter.  However, not being an English teacher (and being too old to remember *why* I say things the way I do), I can't give a definitive answer to the query on the correctness or otherwise of the "we request you to......." construction.  Perhaps "We request you to.........." sounds a little blunt, which may explain why it sounds *better* worded in the other ways suggested by rrose.


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## King Crimson

For the sake of clarity and since Paul pointed out that the link I posted was dead/broken, I am including below the sentence from the OALD that I used to make my point:

_We request you to kindly revert back if you have any further requirements_.

It should be noted that the sentence is in the active form (which didn't sound good to AB). By the way, it seems to me that _revert back _is redundant (but this is really extra OT).


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## Paulfromitaly

King Crimson said:


> Cioè solo l'altra forma che indichi anche tu; a questo punto aspettiamo un chiarimento da rrose (o Sarah).



LA mia citazione è esattamente la pagina del dizionario Oxford che hai linkato tu.
Un'altro dizionario suggerisce questo



> http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/request_11
> to ask for something, or to ask someone to do something, in a polite or formal wayThe pilot requested permission to land.
> 
> *request that: *We specifically requested that you should be informed.
> 
> *request someone to do something: *We intend to request the police to press charges against him.
> 
> Visitors are requested to register at the front desk.


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## King Crimson

Paulfromitaly said:


> LA mia citazione è esattamente la pagina del dizionario Oxford che hai linkato tu.
> Un'altro dizionario suggerisce questo



Appunto, il che sembra confermare la correttezza di entrambe le forme (e così torniamo alla mia domanda originaria).


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